text:
With a slightly higher max aperture at the tele and this would by my ideal camara.
Peter Kroll, Singapore
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 II Review
True breakthrough products are rare in consumer electronics and perhaps even more rare in the digital camera space. The Sony Cyber-shot RX100 was one of those rare products that caught the attention of casual photographers, enthusiasts and critics alike. It successfully fitted a large 1"-type sensor into a compact camera so inconspicuous that without knowing otherwise, a casual observer would assume it to be a point-and-shoot like any other. Unassuming to the eye, it succeeded in pulling off an impressive trick - delivering excellent image quality from a truly pocketable camera.
Now Sony has introduced the RX100 II, sold as a sister model to the existing camera. A new, back-illuminated 20MP sensor (the largest BSI chip we've yet encountered), gives a claimed 40% improvement in low-light sensitivity, which Sony says will allow the RX100 II to focus faster in low light than its predecessor, as well, of course, as producing cleaner high-ISO images.
Meanwhile, the camera's enthusiast appeal is bolstered by the addition of a Multi-Interface hot shoe, allowing use of external flashguns or, significantly, accessories such as an electronic viewfinder. The rear screen also now tilts up and down, which makes the RX100 II more flexible to use and more at ease in bright light. Impressively, Sony achieved this while adding just 2mm to the camera's depth - so it retains its pocketable prowess. The RX100 II has a list price of $750 - $100 more than that of the original RX100.
Key Features:
- 1"-type Exmor-R BSI-CMOS sensor (13.2 x 8.8mm, 3:2 aspect ratio)
- 20.2 million effective pixels
- 28-100mm (equiv), f/1.8-4.9 Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* lens
- Steady-Shot image stabilization
- ISO 160-12,800 (Down to ISO 100 and to 25,600 expanded)
- NFC-mediated Wi-Fi allowing file transfer and control from smartphones
- Rear control dial and customizable front control ring
- 10fps continuous shooting in 'Speed Priority' mode
- Tiltable 3" 1.2M-dot 'WhiteMagic' LCD screen
- 13 Picture Effects (33 with variations)
- Memory Recall feature can store up to three groups of custom settings
- 1080p60 video, (AVCHD) with MP4 option (50p in PAL regions)
- Built-in stereo microphones
- 330-shot battery life (CIPA)
The RX100 II also manages to find room to include Wi-Fi capabilities that can be set-up using near field communication (NFC) if you have a smartphone that supports it. Those of us without NFC in our mobile devices will have to set the Wi-Fi up manually. The RX100 II's video capabilities have also been expanded, with the camera now offering the ability to capture 1080p footage at 24 frames per second, in addition to the 60p and 30p the current RX100 offers (50p/25p on European models). Sony now offers a filter adapter for the RX100 II and its predecessor, a $30 accessory that makes it possible to use 49mm filters with either camera.
Following on the heels of a hit
The RX100 was well received by consumers, and when we reviewed it last year it earned a Silver Award (mainly in response to user interface concerns). It wasn't just another enthusiast compact camera, it was truly a stunning piece of engineering. Now, the pricier RX100 II promises better low light performance, faster auto focus and the option to add a viewfinder/flash/remote trigger.
With the RX100 still on the market (and selling for a more-attractive $600 in the U.S. and £549 in the U.K.) do the RX100 II's additions and improvements make it worth the extra investment? If a tilting screen and the ability to use accessories aren't deal-makers, does the image quality justify its expense? Read our full analysis.
If you're new to digital photography you may wish to read the Digital
Photography Glossary before diving into this article (it may help
you understand some of the terms used).
Conclusion / Recommendation / Ratings are based on the opinion of the reviewer, you should read the ENTIRE review before coming to your own conclusions. Images which can be viewed at a larger size have a small magnifying glass icon in the bottom right corner of the image, clicking on the image will display a larger (typically VGA) image in a new window. To navigate the review simply use the next / previous page buttons, to jump to a particular section either pick the section from the drop down or select it from the navigation bar at the top. DPReview calibrate their monitors using Color Vision OptiCal at the (fairly well accepted) PC normal gamma 2.2, this means that on our monitors we can make out the difference between all of the (computer generated) grayscale blocks below. We recommend to make the most of this review you should be able to see the difference (at least) between X,Y and Z and ideally A,B and C. |
This article is Copyright 2013 and may NOT in part or in whole be reproduced in any electronic or printed medium without prior permission from the author.
Sony DSC-RX100M II Cyber-shot Digital Still Camera 20.2MP, Black | $731.89 |
Sony DSC-RX100M II Cyber-shot Digital Still Camera 20.2MP, Black | $731.89 |
Sony DSC-RX100M II DSC-RX100M2 DSC-RX100MII RX100M2 RX100MII DSC-RX100M II 20.2MP Wi-Fi Digital Camera with F1.8 Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T Lens and Full HD 1080p Video at 60fps + Sony 64GB SDHC Class 10 Memory Card + Wasabi NP-BX1 Battery Pack + Sony Camera Case + Micro HDMI Cable + Focus Multi Memory Card Wallet | $748.00 |
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100M2/B RX100M2 RX100M II RX100MII 20.2MP Wi-Fi Digital Camera Bundle with Sony 64GB Memory Card + Wasabi Power Replacement Battery for Sony DSC-RX1 + Sony Black Carrying Case + Wrist Grip Strap + Camera Accessories | $778.00 |
Sony DSC-RX100M II DSC-RX100M2 DSC-RX100MII RX100M2 RX100MII DSC-RX100M II Cyber-shot Digital Still Camera 20.2MP, Black Bundle with 64GB Class 10 High Speed Card, Spare Battery, Micro HDMI Cable SD Card Reader, Mini Tripod + More! | $748.00 |
Sony DSC-RX100/B 20.2 MP Exmor CMOS Sensor Digital Camera with 3.6x Zoom | Too low to display |
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100M2/B RX100M2 RX100M II RX100MII 20.2MP Wi-Fi Digital Camera Bundle with Sony 32GB Memory Card + Wasabi Power Replacement Battery for Sony DSC-RX1 + Sony Black Carrying Case + Wrist Grip Strap + Camera Accessories | $748.00 |
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100M II DSC-RX100 II Digital Camera 32GB Package | $749.00 |
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 Digital Camera (Black) 32GB Package 6 | $548.00 |
Sony Cyber-Shot DSC-RX100 II Wi-Fi Digital Camera (Black) with 64GB Card + Battery & Charger + Case + Flash + Tripod + Accessory Kit | $779.95 |
Sony DSC-RX100 II Cyber-shot Digital Still Camera DSC-RX100 MARK II | $699.99 |
I did not really find an answer to this in the review: Putting the extra features aside, is it worth it to spend the extra money on the RX100 II (over the RX100) based on picture quality/focus speed?
I read through the review again, and I did find the answers I was looking for.
I'm in the same position. RX100 or RX100 mk2?
The review, last page, says "...would you be better off saving some money and buying the now-discounted RX100 instead? That depends. If a slightly-less-noisy ISO 3200 JPEG is worth an extra $150 to you, then the RX100 II will be the better investment. If you can live with a little more noise, don't care much for a tilting LCD and don't plan to use Wi-Fi sharing, then you're better off with an RX100".
I think I'll go for the RX100 as I only usually shoot in daylight and the shop will through in a free ever-ready case.
From the review: "Overall, the RX100 II is virtually untouchable in its compact camera class".
And they still found it appropriate to give it a Silver Award? Pretty incredible really. I thought for sure when the RX100 II was reviewed, DPR would correct its earlier "Silver Award" slip up for the original RX100 by giving the II a much deserved highest rating.
The only other camera that I can remember that so obviously led its class in pretty much every area and still received "only" a Silver Award was the D7000. Not really a complaint as I don't own either camera just an observation.
I really like the fact that the hotshoe allows me to attach the small Sony bounce flash to the camera when taking photographs of friends in unlighted spaces. I am pleased I traded up from the RX 100. Of all my cameras this is the one I use the most because I always have it with me.
has anyone tested it's "dust gathering" capabilities? My original RX100 had a dusty sensor within a few days, maybe not at Nikon D600 level, but it was still annoying to shoot a blue sky at higher aperture and see blue blobs.
I have an RX100 Mk II, and had sensor dust within two weeks. I've just received it back from having returned it for cleaning, tested it on the sky, and there is still dust - well, a different, small spot in a different location.
To replace the RC as my "every day carry" camera, I bought a second-hand OM-D E-M5 which is an altogether more interesting, fun, and competent camera (although significantly larger, of course). As soon as the RX is fixed, I'll be listing it on eBay.
Maybe I'm fussy, but I find sensor dust on a non-interchangeable lens camera to be a total deal-breaker.
I have this camera. It's pretty terrific. My favorite feature is the articulating screen. Coupling this with its small size and non-threatening appearance makes it the perfect street camera. I typically hold it at chest or waist level and shoot it looking down at the screen. This makes me essentially invisible and able to get great shots. It's easy to get shots 90 degrees left or right of me by turning the camera, and even behind me by holding it to my side and turning it to face back.
My other cam is a Nikon D7000 with a nice array of lenses. Great, but definitely not able to get the same level of candid street shots because it gets noticed. If I had to keep only one? Don't ask! It's like asking me to choose which of my kids is my favorite.
Now than Oly has released its Stylus1, it is high time for Sony to respond by equipping RX100 with a built-in EVF (and possibly a slightly wider and/or longer zoom, as far as camera size does not exceed 400-450 grs.) !!
A viewfinder is vital for ... 'grown-up' travellers, finding it highly un-practical having to wear glasses each time they need to see details on a darned small screen in a sunny day.
Of course, RX100's sensor is much larger than Stylus1's. Nonetheless, a long-sighted person will rather sacrifice some IQ (and some high-ISO performance) than the possibility to SEE all camera info when shooting. As to external (add-on) VFs, they are not a viable option for a traveller's camera !
You, camera-makers! Can't you see that MOST travellers are aged over 45 ??
Buy a camera with an EVF or OVF then... there's a lot of able sighted people that don't want to compromise on IQ and noise handling to satisfy people that can't invest in bifocal or varifocal glasses.
Spot On My Friend!
I'd like to see the % of the under 45 market who own a camera other than the one on their phone, how old that camera is and how often the upgrade that purchase.
Ignoring the "grown up" market is stupid.
They have the money and they have more specific needs (visual acuity & dials-not touch screens) and are willing to pay handsomely for it. Developing a camera that suits the 45+ crowd is a lot smarter than trying to convert the twenty something to upgrade to a camera other than the one that's on their phone.
I hope they keep the RX series SMALL. Add EVF/OVF, more zoom all all the other internet wish-lists might ruin what is already special. Small size and larger point and shoot sensor made the RX100 different. I hope that doesn't change.
For those who's been following, I've updated my test on this camera http://www.squidoo.com/sony-dsc-rx100-ii-review
Gotta say, honestly I'm impressed at the results (again). :)
I hope sony update the firmware ans solve some of the issue, and can get higher point.
some of them can be improved by firmware update.
But I don't know if sony willing to do it or not.
For next year, I suggest sony to start the lens from 24mm. and also trying to have fast lens (on tele)
"the flash offers a working distance of 0.30 to 15 meters."
are you serious? Not even canon's top of the line external flash will do much at 15 meters (~50 feet)
These may be the specs but you guys should list real world numbers. I really don't think this flash would do much past 10 feet.
Is there a time lapse function on this camera?
Will mount this camera on a hexacopter an shoot areal photography.
Cant use WIFI (if there is wifi on it)
Am I the only one who finds a rear screen almost useless in bright outdoor light? If this camera or the Pana GM1 had a good EVF (and either a smaller screen or a little larger size to accommodate it) would not everyone who walks and shoots outside want one? I know I would. Who will be the first manufacturer to sell to every hiker on the planet?
Personally, I have not had a problem with the RX100II's screen. I leave mine at Auto, so it adjusts to ambient light levels. There is an option in the menu settings for "Sunny Weather", as well as "Manual". Along with the tilt screen, that should cover most people's needs nicely.
You can also get an excellent Sony EVF to go with the RX100II. Too expensive if you don't need it, but good value if the absence of one bothers you. I like that it is an add on, so that the majority who don't need it can still enjoy the smaller size with large screen.
Nope, I know what you mean. That said, even in the brightest light I can usually see enough to compose the shot. Works for me, YMMV. :)
Given the price of this camera (and its optional electronic viewfinder) it is a crime that Sony doesn't provide a printed real (vs. Quick Start) manual for the camera. There is also no CD with the manual or other software disc included with the camera. And, the Web-based version of the manual is a pain to read - it's all topline topics only and requires clicking to expand any given topic. There is just no facility for the speed and ease of flipping back and forth b/wn manual pages that there would be with a printed, with decent sized font (geared to the eyesight of middle-aged people who can afford the blankety blank camera) manual. For such a complex camera that is so feature rich, a printed manual is a must!
So, no gold eh? Oh well, still an awesome camera - one would hope the price might come down with only silver (haha). Anyway - I am not a pro, but I love taking pics... so, since I ended up not even using the Canon DSLR package I've got... I bought the RX100II AND the RX1R from here - best prices are constantly updated here (and the writer is cute), so I finally got the other one as well: http://www.squidoo.com/sony-dsc-rx100-ii-review) and sold my DSLR. For a lot of photographers, I don't think these Sony compacts can replace their set-ups, but for me, they do. And they do it well too.
Well everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But do take a look at the tests that I had done using the RX100 II against 3 other mid to high end cameras - http://www.squidoo.com/sony-dsc-rx100-ii-review
You will be surprised why this camera is call a breakthrough product. :)
Does anyone know if Sony has managed to improve the locking mechanism of the battery door ? It´s all safe in even when the door is open but it´s annoying and I have the fear to break it while moving in and out of the pocket.
When is your battery door opening?
When you reach for the camera in a tight pocket?
Or when you put it into a tight pocket?
Mainly when getting it out. The door ist locked by a single slider only. The mechanism I know from the Canon S (90) ist more secure.
Is it worth the extra $150 to buy the II instead of the I?
I will be using it mainly for low light indoor and outdoor concerts.
Yes. I would recommend the II for what you plan to use it for.
The tilting screen alone (not on the first model) will make the job of shooting at events so much easier. I find myself using the screen also tilted up; allowing easy waist level shooting.
The back illuminated sensor should also help with lower light conditions and the multi-interface hotshoe allows for a better mic to be attached. The added WiFi may come in useful for use on location too.
I would like to comment on the click-less ring. I would like it for zooming better than one with click detents. I have a Canon SX-100 that I remotely control the focal length with. I am stuck with settings of 24, 28, 35, 50, 85, 100 and 120mm. If you look at the angular field coverage at each step, you find large gaps between some, and almost duplicates with others.
I would much rather have it infinitely variable.
Also with all of these cameras, be aware when comparing the extremes in focal lengths, you take into effect the aspect ratio of the final work you expect to do. The sensor in my SX-100 is .75:1 (close to an 8x10 for instance). If you make prints close to this, and you use a camera with a 2:3 ratio, like the RX-100, what looks like a Wide Angle view of 28 mm becomes more like 30 mm. You wind up cropping quite a bit off of the ends of the image.
Is this review biased?
if you go to the Image Quality compared (Low Light) page of this review, there appears to be a lot of similar sized compact cameras that do much better than Sony DCS-RX-100 II, for example, select RAW 800 and compare it to Olympus Pen E-PL5 or Lumix DMC-GX7 or some of the Fujis of the same size and weight as Sony. The image quality and resolution of Sony seems to be inferior based on these shots. Is this an error or a biased review toward Sony?
Also, Ricoh GR is even more pocketable, has bigger sensor and produces much better pictures than Sony RX100 II in low light according to its review on this site.
You are comparing the pocketable compact RX100II to the Olympus Pen E-PL5? Also, the Lumix DMC-GX7? Are you on the wrong page perhaps? Do you know the difference between these categories of camera? Throw in the Nikon D800 into the mix too - sure why not? ;-)
Besides the fact that cameras like the GX7 take interchangeable lenses, which add bulk. The GX7 hasn't really shipped yet. It and the new Olympus are the first really good MFT cameras for high ISO work above ISO 1600.
The Ricoh GR, yes, it can be used at high ISOs, but it takes some work and serious raw extraction software. It also uses a fixed lens. It's a plenty good camera that someone can put in a biggish pocket, but it's not exactly in the same category as the Sony RX100.
RX100 vs RX100M2
I really need your HELP
Fist of all I'm diver and i'll use this camera underwater in a Nauticam housing.
It was my birthday yesterday and my wife has bought the RX100
Since exchange with Alex from Nauticam yesterday I thougt thath the better option was the RX100M2
I didn't open the box and would like to know if M2 will be a better choice.
I will use the camera underwater but not so much on land
So what a difficult choice for me
I received this info from Nauticam :
"Will you use the camera a lot on land? If so, the RX100II is the better option. I think if you are spending €2000 on a housing, lenses and flashes, that €200 on the camera is not really so much and the RX100II is the better option.
Let me know and I can do you a devis.
I would exchange it for the version 2 if I were you. The hotshoe may
be useful, the wifi is convenient and the tilt screen is useful on land."
Thanks for your help
Add information :
I received this info from uwdigitalcamera :
"It is very difficult.
The camera performance, definitely M2 is improved and better one.
But it is your decision which one you select, and consider it is worth for the difference 200EUR.
The housing for RX100, it is almost discontinued.
And now the housing for M2 is hot item.
I like ACQUAPAZZA housing, it is very good housing.
And its price is far reasonable than Nauticam.
But if you will use outside monitor, and you take movie mainly, then Nauticam housing has flexibility for these functions and accessories."
Tanks for your help
V2 is better at higher ISOs, because of the BSI sensor, so easier to shoot with less light underwater.
Check to make sure that raws can be sent via wifi if your intention is to get raws off the camera while it's still in the underwater housing.
I assume you realize that this lens gets significantly slower as it zooms out.
The name of the game is wide depth of field. People today watch tv, and on tv you see no out of focus areas. When people look at photographs, they expect the same. The winner will always be the camera that creates clear focused pictures with no out of focus areas.
Did I miss a huge amount of sarcasm here? Sorry if I did, but if not, then not only is it untrue what you are saying about TV shows being shot entirely within depth of field, but achieving large depth of field has always been far less challenging for cameras than narrow depth of field, with the proviso that in low light the photographer needs to be able to either slow the shutter or use higher ISO. But that has forever been the case. I also fundamentally disagree with the comparison between moving images and stills.
I recently travelled with a borrowed RX100 for 10 days, along with my FZ200 superzoom. The RX did 90% of the work. The LCD is surprisingly great and didn't miss the EVF. Tilt would be useful, as on the II.
I will say I completely agree with the review on the user experience and "engagement". I actually don't like shooting with the RX100, and the II is the same menu and navigation. Too much fiddling and quirkiness. The clickless dials don't bother me. It's the menu diving and odd behavior of the flash by mode, or what changes when you shift PASM modes (and what doesn't).
I think the RX100's could be a great camera, but Gold it is not, if only for usability. My FZ200 completely blows it out of the water for usability and speed of use.
But, I'll probably buy a II since it will be with me and is the best small camera I've ever used..... Then I'll polish it up from Silver to Gold by figuring out what customization settings makes it work for me...
It's well worth getting to know the RX100II.
User experience and engagement is more in the head than in the hands. Unreasonable expectations aren't going to help with any new camera, and you can't reasonably expect to be as familiar with it as you are with the one you normally use. When you need a camera this small, you won't get a better alternative anywhere at this point in time.
Also, don't expect physics to bend just because the price tag reflects the high end specification. A very small camera with plenty of controls will feel like a very small camera with plenty of controls. In other words, the RX100II will shoot images like a bigger camera, but feel like a compact camera.
Good luck with your choice (whatever that may be). You may wish to broaden your source of information in the light of this review. I will.
Granted I know the FZ200 waaaay better than the RX100, but I have more than 1000 shots on the RX100 so am reasonably familiar with it. I DO think the key to these cameras is to fine tune their settings to what works for you as an individual. I had very different settings than the owner of this camera - simply because I worked more of the camera features than did the owner.
Yes - you're correct on the physics vs. $$ - I understand and agree.
My choice is complex. I own a full D600 kit as well, and am likely to sell that for m4/3 shortly..... This Sony camera is for having it "with me", and being happy with the results.
Well, there goes Sony again. I said this with the last model. Lens not good and EVF opion would be nice. Silver not Gold, well when the lens ends in F5 at Tele. You do not get gold. If Sony had made it end in even f4 Gold maybe, F3.5 Gold for sure, give the opional EVF and Sony may not be able to keep up with demand.
No camera will plase everyone, but Sony you are so close. Here is keep shoting your foot off and allmosting again.
Just think if the lens were F1.4-F2!, maybe you should use the Leica lens.
It doesn't make my coffee for me either, but I'd still give it gold as the best compact camera around by a long shot.
Then again, I don't care whose badge is on the camera, so I don't carry that baggage with me when choosing.
Makes one wonder; why can't Nikon, and Canon etc..., can't do better.
Because every time Nion or Canon catch up to Sony's innovations, Sny releases something else that Nikon and Canon just dont have. Think about it, Sony released the first full frame mirrorless camera, the first smartphone camera that has an appreciable sensor, a clipon camera for a phone that has the same sensor as a high end P&S (Rx100), the first mirrorless (tell me if im wrong) camera with an APS-C sensor (NEX3-5), DSLT technology, and so much more.
Here we have the greatest compact cam on earth and it just gets a silver award? I still don't get why Dpreview criticises the clickless front wheel. I would hate it, if it would have clicks. Focussing and zooming with clicks? Horrible! A click that could be deactivated would be nice though.
I have the older RX100 for more than a year now and I still must say that this is a phantastic camera.
There are many posts here that agree with you.
More about the camera, less about the reviewer, that should be DPR's new motto at the end of all this. A separate mood icon for the reviewer, to sit beside the camera award icon, might be a nice idea for DPR. I am actually serious.
We are so lucky to have so many camera options available to us.
I have the rx100 and was excited when the MK2 had the tilting LCD.
However just before I was about to make the purchase I got the chance to try the Ricoh GR. A totally different camera but I instantly loved it, even without a rotating LCD. It is has a rugged feel to it, has a fantastic button layout and great menu/user features and layout.
However the Sony RX100 series of cameras are superb as well.
Like cars, I think it is impossible to find just one camera that ticks all the boxes.
I have 2 cars and 6 cameras, but love my cameras more :-)
For me, a "satisfying photographic experience" is taking photos and then being satisfied with the results when i look and/or print them at home.
The images i get from my rx100 ii are satisfying, while those from my previous powershots/Lumix/ et al are not. I know of no other POCKETABLE camera that gives pictures which satisfy but for the rx 100.
DPR's objective tests back up my subjective views.
The "user experience" of the rx 100 does not match my x100s, or even my nex 6. Those cameras, however, don't fit in my pants pocket. Neither does my D3s. So what. Each camera size class fits a purpose.
The rx100 is, imho, a clear gold star.
RX100II is not pocketable, unfortunately. It does deserve gold, but it is not a P&S, it costs like entry level SLR, does not handle like an SLR, has yellow overcast and feels like a WW2 design.
@Boky, I had two RX100II's in my short pockets recently, as I minded one for a friend who was swimming. What's supposed to happen?
Are you talking about boxer shorts? If so, why would you want to put a camera into your underwear?
Fully agree. It`s the only versatile and pocketable cam with "good enough" IQ not constantly making one regret to have left he better gear at home. All the others will frustrate demanding users the sooner or later and IQ wise are challenged by newer smart phone camera.
To "Boky": get out of your Speedos an buy some decent pants and shorts. The RX100 is even shirt pocketable, the Mark II a tiny little less so, but they easily fit into jacket pockets or not too tight jeans pockets.
WW2 Design... LOL, well WW2 gave us the "A" bomb and the RX100 is the" Bomb" Who cares if it's silver?, I think it should be Uranium with a Atomic clow
@Boky you must be wearing hot pants ;)
It's a bold review by DPReview, but also aspects I've heard echoed numerous times with the RX100/II and something that's made me wary of purchasing it. The specs tell "Buy me now!", the photos as well, but in practice? "Hm, I recommend to try it out in a store first."
And when everything's said and done, almost the most important aspect of a camera is that you should truly enjoy using it.
Man! Almost perfect except: no viewfinder and a 4.9 on the long end...
Sorry DPR. Another boring, paint-by-numbers review. Regurgitated. The reviewer lacks even a modicum of enthusiasm, almost as though forced to perform the review as punishment. You really need to lose the hyper-defensive chip-on-the-shoulder attitude when the overwhelming majority of comments disagree with your findings.
Agreed. Not to mention no explanation of their finding that the new model clips highlights 1 EV worse than the old one, yet the sensor is supposedly improved...
@ chillgreg - I think a defensive position is understandable (though not ideal), given some posters' dismissal of something that a lot of work went into. And, having searched through the comments, almost the only responses from dpreview have come in response to outright accusations about our integrity - something I'm sure you can understand would be offensive.
Ultimately, we drew a conclusion based on extensive use and explained our logic. At which point, if you still disagree, that's fair enough. It's not reasonable to then make spurious accusations though - which some people have.
I sat out of the discussion of the award on this camera because my decision to give the RX100 a Silver (which is still meant to denote a good camera, and which Sony uses on its website), was controversial.
However, while the RX100 II's image quality is excellent (though the slow aperture at the long end of the zoom means it's not that far ahead at full zoom), it's not a very interesting camera to use
If I were spending $750 on a camera, I'd want to feel engaged with the shooting experience - I'd expect to feel like I was completely in control of the photos I took. And I just don't get that from the RX100 (or II).
So yes, the camera is groundbreaking from an engineering standpoint. And yes, it offers great image quality (which the review makes pretty clear, I think), but a camera is more than just its images and, despite its capabilities, I just don't enjoy photography with the RX100 - I feel dislocated from the shooting and it seems Allison felt the same way.
At which point, I think the Silver award makes sense. We all admire what Sony's achieved, but it's not an easy camera to love. If your experience differs, you're welcome to disagree, but that's what I sincerely believe and I'd rather err on the side of caution than risk being hyperbolic about a camera I don't enjoy using.
I couldn't give two figs about whether you guys find it interesting (I have one and I can see how that might be the impression if you don't feel like messing with memory settings and avoiding its various oddities like 1/30 shutter). Or if it got gold, silver or chartreuse.
What I'd like to know is where the nice in-depth DR testing stuff went that we saw in older reviews, why the new (bad) test scene was shoved at us, throwing out years and hundreds of cameras to directly compare to the new ones, and how it is that DPR finds the Nikon V1 blows away the RX100M2 in EV range like that, despite what seems to be contradictory DxO data.
I am voicing no grievous aspersions, and I certainly sympathize with staff when the more egregious and disrespectful types vent their dissatisfaction with their own lives in rant form here. You guys have an unfortunate aspect to the job, dealing with the nerd-u-copia of temperamental self-proclaimed experts.
@sensibill - The only place I can see a 1EV difference is in DRO Auto (they're identical in DRO Off).
The extra 1/3EV in the highlight looks a lot like a rounding error - the graphs track each other so closely, you have to assume they're the same (this is bound to happen if you report results rounded to the nearest 1/3rd).
In the shadows, there's a little more range, but that could simply be because the RX100 is slightly cleaner in the shadows at base ISO (125) than the RX100 II is (at its base of 160).
If you look at the noise page, set the first widget to show just the two Sonys, click onto graph view, then select black noise (a little convoluted, I appreciate), you can see the noise level for the RX100 is a little lower than the RX100 II - this could well be just enough to cause the bottom of the DR chart to clip later - giving an extra fragment of DR in the very deep shadows, but not a lot in the real world.
@sensibill - The reason we find a different DR result to DxO is that they're testing Raw DR and we're showing how much of that is conveyed into the JPEGs. We're working on way to incorporate some Raw DR info into our reviews.
And I'm sorry you feel the new test scene is being forced on you. Believe me, the decision to move away from a scene with nearly four years' worth of cameras in it was not taken lightly. If you've not already seen it, this article should explain why we had to change.
Ironically, the RX100 was one of the cameras that convinced us we couldn't continue to use our existing scene. We've done everything we can to try to make sure the new scene tells you more about the real-world behaviour of cameras than our old one did and we're working hard to offer more cameras in the new scene.
Nuisances like these two are nauseating. You both have incredible supernatural powers to be able to detect 'enthusiasm' and 'punishment' via your monitors. Just shut up and shoot. Or better yet, start your own websites and come up with your own standards and awards. @R Butler keep up the good work despite the hating trolls.
Richard, thanks for the explanation.
Javidog, I for one have been here longer and contributed far more to these forums than you have. Complaining about complaints is laughably hypocritical, doubly so when you do it with vitriol. Sycophantic trolling is still trolling.
As always Richard, your logic and ability to maintain that positive and professional attitude under fire is admirable. We might disagree at times, but respectfully.
@sensibill, well said. Have a look at jabmydog's history... ;)
The review is questionable (for reasons many others have pointed out)...
...but the posts from people giving out about people giving out are downright hilarious.
Thanks for the laugh!
"...At which point, I think the Silver award makes sense. We all admire what Sony's achieved, but it's not an easy camera to love."
Seriously?? DPR is practically he only review that does not like the RX100... most people LOVE the portability and image quality. I guess if you hate small cameras with amazing image quality, then this makes sense.. but, then its hilarious how the iPhone is overly hyped on DPR for its photo taking features.
"most people LOVE the portability and image quality."
Yes, but those things are not what DPR found fault with. They didn't like the ergonomics and user experience. Those are very subjective things, so you shouldn't expect every reviewer to have the same opinion.
I for one wouldn't trust a reviewer who weren't honest about his opinions, and were afraid to publish a conclusion that didn't conform to the "consensus view".
The review won't go down as DPReview's finest. I think that while people appreciate honesty in reviews, there is more than a fair smattering of whim and the superficial about this one... best camera in its class, but not in the mood to acknowledge that, not engaging, not yanking my chain, whatever.
I've received some great buying advice on this site over the years. I think that the site should feel flattered that people care enough about the integrity of the reviews to criticize when such is seen as warranted. That concern won't last though, as people are fickle with so much choice available to them.
Sony RX 100 opened the way to 1' sensors, IMHO the "G 17" for Canon and "P 7900" for Nikon will be equipped with 1' inch sensor
Why ?
Nikon Already have 1" sensor, and even interchangeable lenses and even an evf if you want one, and phase detect
Nikon 1 are not a compact cameras. They are interchangeable lens cameras and should be compared to other interchangeable lens cameras; all of them (except Pentax Q) have larger sensor than Nikon 1
hope G17 will be more "compact" than G16
The Canon G1X already has a sensor bigger than 1"; it's pretty close to APSC.
So did 2005 R1. That had a bigger close to APSC size sensor. RX100, however, is truly a pocket camera and appears to be directly inspired by Canon S90 series.
le_alain, G16 includes a zoom lens. J1 does not. Try putting the zoom lens on J1
Excellent and now with a hot shoe, but the price killed it for me. The price is too close to a Ricoh GR though Sony still deserves to price it that high.
GR at 28mm is F2.8. RX100 at 28mm is F1.8, so GR doesn't really have any lowlight advantage, despite the larger sensor.
Add to the fact that RX100 has image stabilization. GR does not. That adds one more stop advantage to RX100
Add wifi, tiltable LCD, 60p video, zoom lens, all missing in GR
if you are ok with the "fixed" 28mm lens, Ricoh GR is a great camera and i'm sure you'll enjoy it,
GR is 27mm f/4.3 equiv.
RX is 28mm f/4.8 equiv.
0.3 stops between them so not much difference here.
"GR is 27mm f/4.3 equiv.
RX is 28mm f/4.8 equiv.
0.3 stops between them so not much difference here."
Equivalent for depth of field, not for amount of light per area that hits the sensor... that's what count for low light performances.
But don't forget rest of my comment. GR doesn't have image stabilization. Combined that with slower lens, and I am sure RX100 beats GR even in low light. You can use ISO 800 on RX100 in a low light scene that will require ISO 3200 on GR
Faster lens plus image stabilization.
what image will be projected in a unit area? very different on sensors of different sizes right? we care the amount of light for the same image (like the face of a kid), not unit area, if the image quality is what we want.
every photographic effect will be the same at an equivalent f-number. anything we observe in a unit area will have to be translated into image area (or simply the sensor area) before we can compare.
> slower lens
GR's lens is about 0.3 stops faster per image quality (well, what a lens can contribute). RX100 may beat GR if the sensor is more than 0.3 stops better, that I don't know.
yabokkie, is there are a reason why you keep ignoring the other part of my sentence? GR doesn't have image stabilization. RX100 does. Combine faster lens and image stabilization, and you will need to use 2 stop higher ISO on GR. GR is not 2 stops better than RX100
RX100 doesn't have a faster lens. the f/1.8 lens is about 0.3 stops slower than f/2.8 on GR in terms of light gathering capacity.
No, RX100 has a faster lens. The bigger sensor doesn't make the slower lens faster. What it does is allow the sensor to capture more overall light, so high ISO is better on a larger sesnor. In this case GR has bigger sensor and RX100 has faster lens so these two things negate each other.
However, RX100 still has image stabilization so overall RX100 would take better lowlight photos as you can use lower ISOs and still keep it handheld.
Good points.Though I still prefer the image quality of the bigger format since I find joy in processing high quality RAW files, the features of the RX100 are quite tempting to have such as the 60p video and IS.
This is really humorous, DP has become a Ken Rockwell, putting out absurd statements to drive clicks to their site (and Amazon).
This kind of repetitive and distressing commenatires are unnecessary and tiring.
Thank you to the team of DPreview for all the work they do, and all the information and advice they give
Compare to other cheap PnS this IQ is best, but not perfect with yellow tined. Not as pocketable as PnS, not as fast as DSLR not as cheap as PnS. I know many people who buy expensive cameras and keep inside cabinet but use iPhone most of the time.
You can check the challenges site. Many beautiful photos were taken by D90, 7D, D300 and 5DII, still. Their IQ may be dated but still catch the best shots. I hardly see RX__ in the Challenges.
Well, it is true that rarely the best picture is taken by the Sony camera in the Photo Contest.
@ coody: How many Canicon sold for one Sony camera? Sony have great stuff (Zeiss AF), a IQ comparable to others, some great photographs also and have the most innovative new technology on the market.
The 280grams of weight, the 28-100mm lens (with manual focus) and the 1inch sensor with the ability of producing raw files, makes it more pocketable (and portable) than a DSLR, better optical zoom (also faster) than any iPhone or phone camera, and you should check the IQ again cause it is better (in some cases) even compared to older micro 4/3 under low light conditions.
whatever happened to "the bigger the better"? you couldn't help contradict yourself again
Bigger pixels, Better images,
Don't let your bipolar disorder take over. VISIT YOUR SHRINK BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE give yourself a chance ......... you might worth it ....... might !!!!
RX100 sensor = 2.4 microns
4/3 sensor = 3.7 (newer) to 4.2 microns (older)
P: "Bigger pixels, better images"
P: "and the 1inch sensor...you should check the IQ it is better compared to older micro 4/3"
Lying to yourself. Tsk tsk.
"Pixel size, pixel count, generation of sensor and cpu all make a difference but most of all the lens".
That was a three day old comment, on the "How many megapixels are enough" comment thread, that you are aware of and re-commented but you like arguing for the argument or just playing ... short
come on. in that same thread you called APS-C sensors undersized and insisted that "FF sensors get better IQ under any kind of light". it's obvious that your opinion keeps changing, you can't understand yourself.
"VISIT YOUR SHRINK" "you might worth it"
Petrogel can't write complete sentences and
seems familiar and even obsessed with psychiatry.
One good thing is that, after 2 months of silence you come up commenting for victor ?
Is this a complete sentence ?
Actually there is no defence here for the all you people shouting foul of the dpreview silver award.
Look at the RX1 - with ergonomics like that the RX100II would have been the highest scored compact EVER. FACT.
SONY failed to deliver the user experience which they so could have based on exisiting products.
RX1 - what ergonomics?
Holding the camera out at arms length is a major fail.
They brought out a killer sensor+lens combo and put it in a truly lame P&S body..
The tilting lcd changes the equation - by using it as a waist level finder and tensioning the strap around your neck, you have a stable framing/shooting base. The RX1 doesn't have that.
Seems like DPReview would save themselves a lot of grief with a very slight redesign: clearly separate the scoring from the 'medal'.
Put the score chart BEFORE the 'final word'.
Then in 'final word', spell out in the last paragraph (as they *sometimes* do) exactly why they chose bronze, silver or gold. Indeed I would expand the final word to a longer subjective insight, and put it and the medal on a different page altogether, entirely distinct from the objective testing.
Constantly reiterating the methodology in reply to antagonistic comments - or relying on the comments of others to do so - must be the least efficient way to justify their thinking, while causing the most antagonism.
What is this obsession with the colour of the medal?
Isn't the image quality the most important, followed by things like easy of camera use? So look at pictures taken with the camera and/or lens at all sorts of settings.
I guess I don't buy wine based on Robert Parker's scoring.
I agree with the review. You really have to compare this camera with those of a similar price point and while the RX100-2 is a very good performer, it begins to pale a bit when you see what is available for the same money.
The issue here is that the reviewer does not value having a camera that you can put in your jean pocket; thats the whole point of the RX100.
This bias is clearly shown. They should give it to someone who gets it. This reviewer clearly doesnt.
You should read reviews before criticizing them. It will give at least minimal cred.
For me this is right on the money. Great camera and pix but not photographer centric. I sold my rx100 because I never enjoyed using it. It felt like a bar of soap, amongst other annoying traits.
Experience immeasurably improved by the Richard Franiec grip, it must be said. But I shot a lot with it before getting the grip and (although I have very, very big hands), a bar of soap is not how it felt to me. The one thing I have missed is a tiltable screen - which the II now provides (though I won't be getting one jest noo).
I have to say - even from the biased position of someone who carries his RX100 with him everywhere (because neither my 1Ds III nor my X Pro 1 fit in a pocket - and nor did my LX3) - that I don't get DPR's take on this camera. It is ground-breaking, class-inventing and -leading; on the objective tests, it scores very highly. Unsurprisingly, for such an astonishing piece of engineering (has everyone forgotten that Time named it one of its top 50 inventions of 2012?), it is not cheap so that can hardly count against it. To give it a Silver Award and then hide behind the "it's all subjective, don'cha'no?" mantra is flimsy - and belittles the Awards themselves.
I do enjoy using my RX100, mainly because of the image quality it produces give it's size. I totally agree, Sony have a consistent but annoying habit of putting 'Sony Style' or more accurately, styling, before functional design. Oddly, they stop doing this when they get up to the SLT-A77/99 level. Maybe they just need to re-define which cameras are at 'consumer' level?
Maybe if Sony silk screened Canon on the front of this little gem it would have garnered a gold rating. But the croissant eating crowd at dpr knows best, farce.
Gold award stands for being best in it's category.
RX100 II is NOT best in its category DPreview claims.
Silver award? It is ridiculous guys.
Sony improved their rx100 which was in the 50 best inventions of 2012 on Times magazine. Then a small online photo magazine (compared to) gave it a silver.
I find that a bad and funny decision.
It is true that the awards are unrelated to the scores.
Canon's G12 got a Gold from 73%, the G15 Gold from 76% and the G1X Silver from 76%. So the RX100 (and -II) getting a Silver from 78% and 79% respectively is indeed something you can't argue against.
That doesn't mean it doesn't feel odd, though.
I got sick reading this to be honest.
All the cons are there comparing this good machine with others which are not in same category.
In my understanding it is pointless to compare this with nex6 for the price ($750 of nex6. that must be body only, how about putting a Zeiss glass on for the reach ?) or nex7 (when rx100 II with EVF on will cost $1200)
I suggest the audience to ignore some of this comparison DP review comes up with.
For the sake of bloodYoranges and cutietangerines.
I feel lots of compassion to those folks who try to compare RX100 to one or another camera. But: to me the reason to compare only within the compact class comes from the class itself – it is a pocket gadget, period. When you do not walk around with a DSLR or another medium/large camera, but pretend to have a fair quality shot at ones – is this Sony a good choice, regarding the sharpness, responsiveness, manual or auto handling, dynamic range, ability to have a good crop afterwards or adjusting the RAW? And for what $? My experience with the RX100 answers me "yes". Right from the beginning I was missing movable LCD, true. Hot shoe? – I was not. The final question: am I happy with the pictures, without arguing the comparisons with the canons or whatever? – YES. If I was selecting a pocket camera now, would I go for the ungraded RX100 – no doubts. Because I am getting great pictures from it.
excellent camera, no doubt an revolutionary development by Sony with impressive IQ. Two main complains, though:
1. (way) too big. It is not really pocketable. What is it then?
2. yellow overcast (minor issue, but annoying one that requires fair amount of time to correct)
The best thing is that Canon will finally have to release the good stuff... wonder what S120 will be capable of...? Would be happy if it comes close enough to RX100II. I'll always sacrifice a bit of performance for a true pocketability - hence the reason I'm still using S90 on-the-go; it fits in a shorts' or shirt's pocket with ease. This should be Sony's main design concern; at least it is the most important MUST in my book of NEEDs.
Nevertheless, RX100II deserves Gold Award - that's a simple fact. Coming to think of Awards...
... maybe dPreview reserved a Gold Award for S120? Everything's possible these days.
$50 rebate in the Sony store on a RX100!
It's all about pocket-ability, Sony are to be congratulated for adding 'features' to an already 'great' camera, but keeping almost the same overall size, not an easy task!
RX100: 58.1 x 101.6 x 35.9
RX100 II: 58.1 x 101.6 x 38.3
The loss of detail is impressive with this one, when you look at the samples larger than screen size :o
Such an unbiased review! For example because of statements like the following: "Comparing the RX100 II's JPEGs to the Canon PowerShot G16's (a compact bearing a 1/1.7" CMOS sensor) is a little unfair since the Sony's sensor is much larger,..." And then you compare the Sony`s sensor with much larger mft and aps-c size ones and consider it fair. The fact that you do not bond with the camera is written all over the review and prevented you from a fair and balanced test result. It`s simple, the Sony RSX100 (II) is in a class of its own and punches way above its weight class. It actually invites to skip mft with kit zooms. Smaller sensor competition feels camera phones breathing down its neck and eventually will become insignificant in terms of market share. Sony has achieved what all product manufacturers dream about: it has changed the rules of the game in a certain market segment. Not a small feast. Others will be followers and will try to copy it. A gold award winner.
I was trying to compare RX100 M2 with Canon G1X, but I am not able to see G1X in the list...
Well, before I bought one, I managed to compare it with the Canon G1X and Canon 7D so that's a mix. It did what I wanted it to do. Having said that, dpreview had a link to DxO where I went so maybe that's where I did the comparison in the beginning of August.
Since then, I know that DxO have reviewed the lens. It's great at wide angle, but nothing spectacular on the zoom but I can live with that. It's easier to transport after all...
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Young's Double Chocolate Stout (In Store Only)
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A world-class brew, made with real chocolate! You can actually smell the chocolate as the beer is being poured! Highly recommended.
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Atmospheric, somewhat upscale B&B with good service. Excellent location – a quiet road, yet close to the city centre as well as to many attractions (the public museum, the prison, Lewis Glucksman's gallery, the university campus). The only drawback is that the railway station is on the other side of the centre, so you have to trudge for a couple of kilometres (or to take a taxi) if arriving by train. The breakfast was good, too, though I'm not entirely sure if it was worth the extra 8 € it cost.
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is this a better version of DTH if your looking to bulk, i have heard good things about this company but never really looked into it much, so whats the deal, is this effective of look into something different?
better when stacked of stand alone?
Lots of great info in the Get Diesel subforum. It stacks well with Sunami. Read around in the sub-forum, and post a specific question there. Both DTH & DT2010 are effective, see the comparsion thread.
DIESEL TEST Hardcore vs. DIESEL TEST 2010
So, I wanna Get Diesel - what should I choose?
oh didnt know there was a get diesel sub-forum bro thanks!
can any one tell me if there is a good amount of nettle root if you stack sunami and DT 2010??
i like both of the blends, i would do 6 DT 2010 / day
and 4 sunami / day.........i might run DT 2010 standalone though @6 caps / day........ideas??
I would recommend following the dosing procedures, you can always ramp up if you need to. Lots of people have/are logging exactly what your looking at bud, I personally logged DTH/Sunami, and couldn't have been happier. Ask away, the Get diesel forum is quite active and your sure to get a question answered by either Chuck or TripDog. Good luck!!
Yea you should make another thread there. DT2010 + Sunami is a nice stack, and it comes with a dosing schedule made by Chuck, available on his site ( Double or Nothing Stack - testosterone booster by GET DIESEL NUTRITION )
wow, exactly what i wanted thanks steveoph!!
your a MIND READER, I WAS JUST lookin for a dosage protocol lol
Im on ETHER/DT2010/DTH, and man i've never been so strong, and getting stronger every week
I would take DTH over DT2010 btw. It's stronger but will give you more agression (great in the gym). Stacking them is even better though, or stack all 3
i tasted JP8 before and i just didnt like the taste, but the ether caps are those going to give similar results?
thinking of stacking DT 2010/DTH/ETHER
does NOS ether even taste like JP8??
Hmm just realised I didnt really answer your question, ether tabs are not as strong as nos ether, I think of it as a nos ether "light" lol, it does have soime test boosting properties though that nos ether doesnt have.
BTW JP8 has a really agressive sharp taste which makes it bad for me I just remembered, the NOS ETHER doesnt have that.
yah the ingredient profile looks awesome, you would say its more effective that ETHER tabs??
i here after a couple times of drinking it you get use to it........and i was thinking of mixing it with some lemone Gatorade powder ( i got lots of it) or "SQUENCHER" i think thats what its called, i can get tons of that from work
you answered it now thanks
I love JP8, didn't buy it for the taste. Man, does that stuff focus me!!
yah, but if your going to drink it every day, you want to look forward to drinking it, yah know...at least thats how i look at it.....its not every thing but it is a factor
JP8 is getting a taste upgrade (Either Fruit Punch of Grape), and it's supposed to taste pretty good now. (JP8 -Tropical Punch or Grape....vote now! ) I have gone thru over 2 tubs of it by just scooping the powder plain, doesn't taste half bad. Mix it with some WMS /WPI and the taste is pretty good actually.
Also about the difference between NOS Ether Powder and tabs, see Dif. between NOS ETHER and ETHER Tabs .
thanks steve!!
Currently running the 3 Kings Stack(DTH,2010 and Sunami-Words cant describe it. A+ stack. Day 35) with JP8 and Nos Ether.
We do not buy diesel products for taste. We buy them for performance........And his dont take s h i t attitude. lol
I am very very happy with Nos Ether and JP8 as far as workout endurance goes. Plain sick.
I did a legitimate 1.5 hours of leg work last night. 2 scoops JP8 and 1 scoop Nos Ether.
Started with squats and ended at squats. Tore up today.
There is no hype. JP8 and Nos Ether is for real.
I dont have taste buds for s h i t, but am still excited to hear a better flavored JP8. no offense chuck lol


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text: Quality Policy Our mission is not simply to be good at quality but to excel in quality. If we are to convince and secure our customers in the long term, we must continue to take a lead on quality, technological progress, reliability and cost-effectiveness as well as ensuring correct, timely deliveries and proving a committed service. This is and always has been the foundation on which the success of the Company is based. The standard we must aim for is quality in the eyes of our customers; we must focus every effort on satisfying the expectations and requirements of our customers. Every employee must think and act in accordance with this principle and we must all co-operate with this goal in mind. Our work must be based on the objective of "zero defects" and we must implement measures in all departments to ensure defect prevention, not simply defect detection. The result of our work must be free from defects, at all times and in every workplace throughout our Company. The Management and all employees give their wholehearted commitment to this quality policy. |


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Saul Goodman, the devious lawyer from Breaking Bad, is getting his own spinoff show!
AMC has just announced that "Better Call Saul" is moving forward because a deal has been reached with Breaking Bad's production company, Sony Pictures Television.
And don't you go thinking that means he survives the final season! The show will be a prequel to Breaking Bad and will showcase how Saul became the man we know and love so well.
More details at NYTimes.com


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Save 20% on Green Toys
Save 30% on Zooka Wireless Speakers
Game of Thrones Box Set only $25
Top 50 books for 50% off
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by Jeff Kinney
Harry N. Abrams | November 13, 2012 | Hardcover
Format: Hardcover
Dimensions: 224 Pages, 5.51 × 7.87 × 0.39 in
Published: November 13, 2012
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Jeff Kinney is an online game developer and designer, and a #1 New York Times bestselling author. Jeff was named one of Time magazine's 100 Most Influential People in the World. He spent his childhood in the Washington, D.C., area and moved to New England in 1995. Jeff lives in southern Massachusetts with his wife and their two sons.
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A major theme in Geekdom is a love of tabletop gaming. Whether its D&D, Settlers of Catan, etc.
I'm willing to bet this love of gaming started when we were young, so I everyone to regress back to their childhood and discuss what their favorite game was when they were a kid.
I'm thinking the "classic" games we grew up with, from the major publishing companies Milton Bradley, Parker Bros., etc.
If you try to say Monopoly, you better have some good evidence to back that up, because we'll know you're lying. Nobody likes Monopoly.
Likewise, if you say an obscure game,describe it and tell us why you liked it as a kid.
My all-time favorite board game as a kid was definitely Clue.
I loved Simon, Rubik's Race, Payday, Battleship, and Yahtzee among many others.
I liked Clue as well. I preferred Colonel Mustard, my sister always preferred Miss Scarlet. Later as a "Teen" kid I remember playing Axis & Allies for hours (time split equally: 1/3 setting up pieces, 1/3 playing the game, 1/3 heated discussion on the rules)
One that I picked up at a garage sale that I found a lot of fun was "The Sinking of the Titanic" renamed to "Abandoned Ship"
The board is split up into two sections and pivots in the middle. Your goal is to rescue as many passengers as you can and escape to the waiting lifeboats without drowning. Each roll of the dice, sinks the boat a little more. Once you have left the ship, you have to make it through dangerous waters to the rescue boat as it appears on the horizon. A bit of a macabre concept, but very unique and fun game play.
image courtesy of Game Board Geek
Did anyone else ever play this one?
I remember playing Stop Thief quite a bit. It had a handheld electronic device you used to track a thief on a gameboard.
Stop Thief at boardgamegeek.com
Also played Dark Tower quite a bit. It's become a collectors item. Working games can get a good price on ebay.
Dark Tower at boardgamegeek.com
Wooden Ships and Iron Men was this great ship combat board game. It was Avalon Hill I think I haven't played since Jr high. We had a teacher who was a history buff and a gaming buff so we would go hang out in his room during lunch and play combat games.
OGRE and GEV were favorites. I think OGRE came out in 1980 or at least that was when I got it a Comics and Curios for I think 5 dollars. Another lunch time favorite. You were either a Giant Robot Tank (think BOLO) or the attacking force.
I don't know if Battle Tech counts as a board game or growing up as I was 15 when we started playing it. FASA games were very important for the next couple of years.
And Uno. Lots of Uno
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'Lakeview Terrace' is No. 1 at weekend box office
| Sep 22, 2008
A bad cop bullied his way to the top of the weekend box office as a menacing Samuel L. Jackson in Sony Pictures' "Lakeview Terrace" overcame Lionsgate's "My Best Friend's Girl."
Jackson, playing an LAPD officer who harasses an interracial couple who move...


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The cabling reminds me of my BFG LS1200. Since it's like a really odd model that you never see, it caught me off guard
Hello everyone! I have not been on the forums in a while but I just upgraded my rig to SB-E from a core i7 950 and rampage iii extreme. Just thought I would post some pics.
I have the CPU overclocked to 4.6 Ghz and at full load it hits 61c max. The 580's let off ALOT of heat when in-game so that also warms everything up lol.
Excellent temps for a 3960X at those clock speeds my friend! Your Haf-X is look'in gooooood! Thanks for sharing!
Havent been on here in awhile so figured I would post my updated rig up. Intel Core I7 950 OC@ 4.2 16g ddr3 triple channel ripjaw 1600 MSI X58A-GD65 mb GTX 570 XSPC liquid cooling. HAF X case. let me know what you think. Will post more as I mod it.
Few more updates from my previous shot. Added BitFenix Alchemy LED to match Antec LED behind the monitor Replaced CIV with 990FXA-UD3 for a more black look (never used the Crosshair to its fulllest) Added Intel 520 240GB SSD (Samsung 500gb died..) Some BitFenix white cables. enjoy
Is that a GNex? The setup looks nice, but you should take it to the next leve and tie up the cables under your desk. lol
Just got my M5G back from asus RMA, check out the awesome quality of the return product! :shadedshu Yes that is a "broken" pcb. it looks like some one took a razor blade to it and shaved off a chunk of the board, needless to say this board is *NOT* going in my system and asus is getting another support ticket this time with a Mr. Angry as the signature at the bottom 3 weeks of waiting to get this kind of crap tossed back at me is unacceptable
The fuck? How does a broken inductor passes QA? The shaved edge of the PCB is detrimental for looks only so maybe they let that go if it's a recertified board... but a broken component?


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GDW's modern horror role-playing game.
The details of the Dark Conspiracy game system: a complete list of the component titles with descriptions and illustrations. Guide to Dark Conspiracy provides a comprehensive overview of the first edition of Dark Conspiracy as published by Game Designers' Workshop.
The authoritative guide to the second edition of Dark Conspiracy, including systema nd detailed product descriptions.


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Red Dawn Remake – Trailer
13.08.12 # Trailers # 9 Comments
What if America was invaded by a hostile army and its civilians put under occupation? I'm not talking about the League Of Shadows in The Dark Knight Rises. This time it's naughty North Korea and they're ready to shoot your dad in the head.
Sure looks like we're celebrating heroic acts of terrorism.
I love the concept of Red Dawn, it's edgy, un-pc and if done right can give you the chills. But the '84 original wasn't anywhere near as good as its concept. This looks more polished but hampered by trying to be more politically correct – it was meant to be the Chinese invading in the remake, but at some point the studio chickened out and digitally altered the invaders to North Koreans. That just doesn't sit right, North Korea doesn't seem like it could invade the US in a credible way. Also the trailer mentions a mysterious device that 'knocked out the US army', one that will turn the tide if they grab it – that feels like a plot device from a G.I. Joe movie. Why not just have a credible, less cartoony invasion? It's much more frightening.
The lead character is now a Marine ready to train the others, in the original they were civilians winging it. Does this miss a big part of the appeal?
The remake has been on the shelf since 2009 and while that normally indicates a movie's terrible, in this case the delay was due to MGM's financial problems. The other completed film stuck with it, Cabin In The Woods, turned out to be one of our favourites of this year so far. It's actually fortunate for the studio that Red Dawn was delayed because Chris Hemsworth and Josh Hutcherson have become stars in the last three years, thanks to Thor and The Hunger Games.
Red Dawn is released on November 21st in the US. I'll be watching it.


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Beginning Fall 2012, College of the Canyons will be partnering with Higher One, to bring a new method for receiving financial aid disbursements.
A Higher One Debit MasterCard will be sent to all financial aid applicants with detailed instructions on how to choose the method of disbursement. It is important that you follow the instructions from Higher One and CHOOSE how you would like your financial aid disbursement sent to you. You can choose to activate the Higher One account (the debit card sent to you) and have your financial aid funds deposited there, OR you can choose to have your funds deposited into an existing checking/savings account, OR you can choose to have a paper check sent to you.
We've made the switch to Higher One services to offer our students choices on how they prefer to receive their financial aid funds.
Make sure we have your current mailing address! Here's how:
Then, beginning in August look for the BRIGHT GREEN ENVELOPE from Higher One! Once it arrives, you'll simply use the card inside to let us know how you would like to receive your money. Just choose the option that best fits you…and be sure to get started as soon as it arrives! Remember, even if you are ineligible for financial aid at College of the Canyons; do not throw the card away. You will need this card to receive your financial aid disbursements if your eligibility changes in future semesters, so don't wait.
Effective January 3, 2013 the OneAccount Fee Schedule is changing:
Visit www.canyonschoicecard.com to learn more about the all-new Canyons Choice Card coming to College of the Canyons this Fall.


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Daily Joust: The Weekend Ahead
April 13th, 2012 | by Ray Flowers |
It's Friday, and that means a couple of things. First, the weekend is nearly upon us (thank goodness). Second, it's time to get your crunk on. Third, it's time to get ready for your weekend of fantasy baseball with DailyJoust.com.
For those of you unaware of just what DailyJoust is and what the offer, click on the link to BBGuys Partners with DailyJoust. The bottom line is DJ allows you the chance to play daily fantasy baseball, choose a team today an another one tomorrow if you want, all the while giving you the chance to make some real money. Today, I'll give some advice on how you might choose to fill out your lineup for Friday or Saturday.
Derek Jeter: Friday he faces Ervin Santana. Jeter is a rather amazing 17-for-38 against the righty with three homers (that's good for a .447 average). Teammate Robinson Cano is hitting .344 with four homers in 32 at-bats against Santana.
Shin-Soo Choo: Friday he faces Luke Hochevar who he simply hammers into the Dark Ages. Choo has 13 hits in 23 at-bats leading to a .565 average. In addition to all the hits, he's doing something with them as he has four doubles, three homers and 10 RBI. Impressive.
Chipper Jones: Friday he faces Randy Wolf who he beats around like a pinata. In 53 career at-bats Jones has four bombs and 10 RBI. He's also hitting .377 with a 1.228 OPS. It's a great match up for Chipper. However, it seems to be an awful match up for his teammate Michael Bourn as the speedster has all of one hit in 17 at-bats against Wolf including seven punchouts.
R.A. Dickey: Friday he faces the Phillies, a team he has had a lot of success against. In six career starts covering 38 innings, R.A. has a 2.61 ERA, 1.13 WHIP and 2.70 K/BB ratio against the Fightin' Phils.
Cliff Lee: Friday he faces the Mets. It's only 21 innings, but the guy has a 0.43 ERA, 1.05 WHIP and 3.40 K/BB ratio against the Metropolitans. He's pretty much always money though regardless of the opposition.
Clayton Richard: Friday he faces the Dodgers, a team he has thoroughly dominated with a 2.18 ERA and 1.17 WHIP over 45.1 innings. Sometimes things just don't make sense, but you can't argue with the results.
Carlos Lee: Faces the often wild and tempestuous Carlos Zambrano. Lee not only has a 1.098 OPS in 67 career at-bats against Big Z, he's also had more walks than strikeouts (eight to seven), while hitting .358 with five homers and 15 RBI.
Jhonny Peralta: Faces Gavin Floyd whom he has 10 hits in 31 at-bats against (.323). He's also gone deep two times leading to a seven RBI. Other Tigers with success against Floyd include Ryan Raburn (.375 in 32 at-bats), though he is really struggling on the young season (.105 through five games).
Placido Polanco: Faces Jonathon Niese who he has hit .429 against in 21 at-bats. Polanco has hit four doubles helping him to a .619 SLG, and he's driving in six runs against he Mets' lefty.
Joe Wieland: Faces the Dodgers starting in place of the injured Dustin Mosley. The game will be played in Los Angeles, a park that has played as the 14th lowest scoring ball yard in the National League the last three years according to Park Indices (nine percent below the league average). The Dodgers as a team haven't exactly been impressive on the early year either hitting .204 with a .306 OBP and a mere .363 SLG.
Carlos Zambrano: Faces the Astros on Saturday. Though I noted how Carlos Lee kills Zambrano, non one else on the Astros has done much of anything against him. In addition, the guy has flat out owned the 'Stros in his career. Check out the numbers: 16-8, 2.72 ERA, 1.14 WHIP with 186 Ks in 218 innings. Basically he's been what Ricky Romero (15-11, 2.92 ERA, 1.14 WHIP, 178 Ks in 225 IP) was last season when he's faced the Astros.
Barry Zito: Faces the Pirates in San Francisco. The Pirates are currently the worst hitting team in baseball as they are batting .199 with a .241 OBP, 293 SLG and 11 runs scored in six games. Zito is also coming off his first shutout since 2003 and he has a 3.41 ERA in five starts against the Pirates. Are you feeling lucky punk (thanks for that one Dirty Hairy)?
Finally, here are two of the main contests you might be interested in (there are many other options to sign up for at Daily Joust, so don't think you are limited to just this duo).
The $500 King Richard Survivor Tourney is on Fridays. The tournament includes 32 participants on Day 1. Then it's paired down to 16 on Day 2, eight on Day 3 etc. Basically, the players in the top half each day move on to the next day. The winner end ups with $195, on just a $20 entry fee, and the winner is also added into the MLB Super Joust III tournament in September! Super Joust II is April 18th and has $10,000 in prizes up for grabs. If that wasn't enough of a reason to get excited, maybe the two tickets that the winner gets to the NBA Finals will help get your blood pumping.
MLB 50/50 Survivor Tournament. A $20 entry fee gets you entered in the tournament (all other rounds free). There are five rounds, top half per round qualify for next round. Payouts by round are $5/15/25/50/100 with the final round winner getting one of the spots in the $10,000 NBA Super Joust tournament on April 18 with a shot at those two NBA Finals tickets.
To sign up for any game with DailyJoust simply click on the link.
By Ray Flowers
Tags: Barry Zito, Carlos Lee, Carlos Zambrano, Chipper Jones, Clayton Richard, Cliff Lee, DailyJoust, Derek Jeter, Jhonny Peralta, Joe Wieland, Matchups, Placido Polanco, R.A.Dickey, Shin-Soo Choo


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Following a successful tour of the United Kingdom last year, the University of Newcastle's award winning Chamber Choir is searching for new voices to join the talented ensemble.
Chamber Choir Director, Dr Philip Matthias, said the Choir was looking to build on last year's achievements which included winning the National Choral Eisteddfods in Canberra and the McDonald's Performing Arts Challenge in Sydney.
"The Chamber Choir has a proud history and reputation for attracting aspiring singers," said Dr Matthias.
"Choral singing is demanding, but enormously rewarding. Our goal is to nurture choristors to develop their singing talent while contributing to the richness and eloquence of the Choir's sound."
Auditions for the Chamber Choir will be conducted at the Conservatorium of Music from 4pm on Tuesday 12, Friday 15 and 10am on Saturday 16 February 2008. Singers must register for an audition by calling the Conservatorium of Music on 02 4921 8900. Singers need to be able to perform a short piece showcasing their talent.


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Picking Themselves Up
First Rajon Rondo, next Jared Sullinger, now Leandro Barbosa. How will the Celtics navigate the latest obstacle put in their path? Chris Forsberg Barbosa tears ACL » Options at guard »
Sam Sharpe/USA TODAY SportsFinal | ||
Boston College | 62 | |
Patriots RB Shane Vereen shares his thoughts about his wrist injury, his role in the Patriots' attack, the jelling of New England's offense and more.
Two-time World Series champion Johnny Damon dishes on Jacoby Ellsbury's decision to sign with the Yankees, what moving from Boston to New York is like and more.
ESPN NFL analyst Herm Edwards weighs in on how to beat the Seahawks, Bill Belichick's comments about replay, the playoff picture, Mike Tomlin's apology and more.
Patriots TE Rob Gronkowski weighs in on the state of New England's offense, Antonio Smith's controversial comments, illegal hits, his health and more.
ESPN NFL analyst Trent Dilfer weighs in on Geno Smith's struggles, how much responsibility for the Jets' problems falls on Rex Ryan, the Patriots' defense, the Saints' challenges on the road and more.


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Data Center
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The Onondaga County Industrial Development Agency (
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Excelsior Program
The Excelsior Jobs Program provides job creation and investment incentives to firms in targeted industries, including; biotechnology, pharmaceutical, high-tech, clean and renewable technology, financial services, agriculture and manufacturing. Firms in these strategic industries that create and maintain new jobs or make significant financial investment may be eligible for up to four new tax credits:
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The 'Recharge New York' program gives New York businesses the ability to buy low-cost power and spend the savings on retaining and creating jobs. Under this program, companies may be awarded seven-year contracts for low-cost power based on capital investment commitments, job retention and creation, consistency with regional economic development council priorities, and other factors. Businesses participating in the program must also demonstrate a commitment to maximizing energy efficiency. The Recharge New York Power Program:
Provides 910 MW of power for participants in the program
Is supported by 455 MW of hydroelectric power, a clean, cost-effective and stable source of energy,and 455 MW of market power
Reserves at least 350 MW of the program for upstate businesses and institutions
Reserves at least 200 MW for business attraction and expansion
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For a comprehensive list of available incentives and financing programs available, please visit the links below:
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| Follow @ChildDefender |
A child is killed or injured by a gun every 30 minutes in America. More children die every three days in America than died in the Newtown massacre. As a nation, aren't we better than this? Learn more about the CDF gun report, "Protect Children, Not Guns," which documents gun violence in our nation; download our current fact sheet, "The Truth About Guns," and find ways to make sure your voice is heard in Washington. When it comes to protecting our children from guns, we can do better.
Seeing the Toll, Schools Revise Zero Tolerance
December 2, 2013, The New York Times
When an Adoption Doesn't Work Out
November 28, 2013, The New York Times
Brooklyn Pantry Struggling to Help Fill Gap Left by Federal Cuts to Food Stamps
November 25, 2013, The New York Times
This Week in Poverty: Anti-Poverty Leaders Discuss Need for Shared Agenda
November 25, 2013, The Nation
California Lawmakers Want BB Guns Made in Bright Colors
November 22, 2013, The Los Angeles Times
Learn more and join CDF's campaign to "Protect Children, Not Guns" »
An extraordinary young leader who at age 22 became the youngest city council member in Stockton, California, Michael shares his story of growing up poor and Black and male and suggests powerful ways to help others get the education they need to succeed.
Prime your congregation for action with this year's National Observance of Children's Sabbaths® manual.
Download the manual »


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The original deal pioneer keeps on pinching pennies and cracking wise. No, that price isn't a typo. Go to Woot
Last chance deals for hardcore cheapskates. Catch 'em before they - you guessed it - sell out. Go to Sellout.Woot
The robots are coming! And so are the laptops, the tablets, the phones, the cameras, the TVs... Go to Tech.Woot
High living at low prices with name-brand deals for your pad, crib, nest, or castle - inside and out. Go to Home.Woot
Make it, build it, improve it. But whatever home project you've got in mind, start by saving money on it. Go to Tools & Garden
Sports, fitness, and outdoors deals, because saving money is only one of your passions. Go to Sport.Woot
You don't have to spend a lot to look like you do. Werk it and twerk it with amazing deals on designer watches, handbags and more. Go to Accessories & Watches
Deals for moms and dads and anybody else who needs kids' stuff, from toys to baby gear to furniture to clothing. Go to Kids.Woot
Our exclusive graphic tees will make you laugh, will make you cry, will make you look totally hot. Go to Shirt.Woot
Direct from the winery to your thirsty lips: wine deals worth doing a spit-take over. Go to Wine.Woot
398,329 deals (and counting) from around the web, shared and ranked by a community of deal fiends like you. Go to Deals.Woot.
Wootalyzer's Pricing Post! - The price of today's woot item is saved here for future reference------------------------------------------------------------Apple iPad 64GB with Wi-Fi & 3G$459.99 + $5 ShippingCondition: Apple Recertified*DISCLAIMER* Wootalyzer! is in no way affiliated with Woot!, and this post may not always be here!
Very nice, i have one! Good price!
This is literally like selling an Atari.
Not sure if this is a good price or not for it?
is it Apple compatible?
Is this number 1 one number 2?
Is this the old old iPad, the old iPad or the new iPad :P?
I can't believe these 3-generations-old devices are still selling for this much!
This an iPad 1? Why would anyone buy that?
Will this work with my (nonexistent) Acme Garden Plow?
Its this second generation ipad2 or the first one?
zenophile wrote:Its this second generation ipad2 or the first one?
For that price? even for a 64gb I still wouldn't buy it
For those of you who don't mind being behind on the game by 2 years.
That's a pretty damn good price, even for a refurb. EDIT: Spoke a little too soon, assumed it was an iPad 2. But still... 64GB, 3G, tempting...
It's the First Generation, per the description. Apple FC497LL/A iPad 64GB with Wi-Fi & 3G (First Generation) (AT&T only - 3G data plan must be purchased separately)
Is it just me or does and ipad 1 refurb for $465 seem a little steep?
Can I install Ubuntu on it?
Seems like a lot of money for a 2 generation old device. Pass.
Seriously Woot ?
$549 at the Apple store for this model, refurbished.
kelemvor wrote:This an iPad 1? Why would anyone buy that?
Because they are still pretty good. But not at this price...
it says right in the product info: Gen 1... i cut and pasted it for you as well 1 Apple FC497LL/A iPad 64GB with Wi-Fi & 3G (Gen 1), 1GHz A4, 9.7" LED, Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR, 802.11n
I have a phone that looks like that...
If you're wondering if the new iPad (iPad "3") has a much superior screen...it doesn't. iPads 1 and 2, which have the same screen, are barely less readable than the latest iPad. I think this is the iPad 1, which lacks any camera. If that's not a big deal this can be a good buy. BTW, 64GB storage is huge, the only way to fill that is with lots of video.
brasssong wrote:Is this number 1 one number 2?
iPad1 From the description: "Apple Recertified PRODUCT: 1 Apple FC497LL/A iPad 64GB with Wi-Fi & 3G (Gen 1)"
Ugh. They must have hundreds of these. Oops...Only 4..Really?
1st generation iPad again......I can buy a great current generation (less memory, no 3g) tablet for less...NEW. Woot, put the generation in the TITLE...not slipped into the bottom description. Enough with the old old old iPads already....stuffing these down the wootoff barrell.
Someone's grandparents are going to buy this for their grandchild thinking it's the new thing...
for everyone saying this is overpriced for a 2 generation old refurbished device....you are correct.
On Newegg for 699.99 new!
I have a Commodore VIC-20, then the second gen came out, Commodore-64, then a 3rd. The C-128. I liked the VIC-20 the best 10 print "poop"; 20 goto 10 30 run
yeeeeeeeeah... with announcement of the new iPad... I don't see this moving too fast
http://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/ Comparison of this with the new one.
So we meet again, my woot-off nemesis...
This is about what I paid for my wife's iPad (32GB no 3G) in December 2010. Offensively expensive for such an old and outdated device, having said that, the wife's iPad is humming along very nicely after 15 months of daily use.
I've seen some pretty good deals on the ipad 2 (new/refurbs) lately. I wouldn't jump on this but I understand if you want something NOW.
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