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Cellar/Tasting Notes A blend of 66% Pinot Noir and 34% Chardonnay, this is opulent and full bodied, with toast and wood flavors. Rich and ripe, this beautiful wine is generous and still young, with just a touch of bitterness at the end.
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Lobsters and Snowshoes: The Hayes Presidential Service
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A chance meeting between the wife of President Rutherford B. Hayes and Theodore Davis, an illustrator and journalist for Harper's Weekly, in the White House conservatory produced one of the most extraordinary dinner services.
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Waiting for Godot
By García Sinclair and Nafis White
Garcia Sinclair and Nafis White (both RISD BFA 2015, Sculpture) reflect on the tortuous journey of the LGBTQ movement epitomized in their winning Sitings 2013 installation "Waiting for Godot" and on the equally tortuous process they used to create the steel sculpture.
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Firstly I want to say that I did not book this place myself as I was located here by work. It does have a perfect location bang in the middle of Rotterdam 15min max walk from Centraal station.!! There is plenty to do and see and shop around the area and there is a tram line and metro station less... More
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Eastern Adelaide Local Service Area The Eastern Adelaide LSA (EALSA) encompasses the Adelaide Central Business District, North Adelaide and all suburbs to the east bounded by the River Torrens in the north, Glen Osmond Road in the south and the base of the foot hills in the east covering an area of approximately 155 square kilometres. The Eastern Adelaide LSA provides services to a population base of approximately 150,000 people located within the local government boundaries of Adelaide City Council, Norwood/Payneham/St Peters Council, Campbelltown Council and Burnside Council. This number increases on a daily basis in excess of 175,000 people who visit and work in the CBD. The population of the Adelaide CBD continues to grow each year and the Adelaide City Council is committed to further residential and student accommodation growth within the CBD. Police Officers working in Eastern Adelaide LSA are exposed to a unique style of policing due to the LSA's high density of entertainment areas. The entertainment areas were predominately Hindley Street, North Adelaide and Norwood Parade precincts but in recent years have expanded to include other areas in the CBD such as Rundle, Gouger and Hutt Streets and comprise in excess of 100 licensed hotels and entertainment venues. EALSA is also host to more than 400 events annually which attract both national and international media coverage and tourists. The headquarters of the Eastern Adelaide LSA is located at 176 Grenfell Street Adelaide with 6 police stations within the LSA being located at Wakefield Street, Hindley Street, Archer Street North Adelaide, Osmond Terrace Norwood, Glynburn Road Firle and Gorge Road Newton. The LSA provides a range of services including Operations, Traffic, CIB, Intelligence and Crime Prevention. 1 Community Constable and a recently appointed African Liaison Officer are also based at the LSA. |
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Dating for Recovering Fundies
(This post was last modified: 04-11-2012 04:13 PM by IFB No More.)
Post: #131
RE: Dating for Recovering Fundies
Now I kinda remembered my love life in the past when I was younger.
My first love interest was when I was 12-13. She was an exotic, German-Romanian girl who was the head student leader. I followed her in a lot of projects she took on in a bid to impress her. She turned me down. We were both too young. I had several crushes when I was in middle school and junior high as well. To summarize them, the girls that were interested in me I did not pursue - the girls that I were interested in, were either attached or rejected me in a heartbeat. My biggest regret was me throwing my tantrum at a girl that liked me (flirted with me many times and called me cute names) when she attended a debate I was in. In my anger (I was really temperamental at that time!) I angrily cursed at anyone who interrupted me, including that girl. This was one of the biggest regrets in my youth. Then I suckered myself into the Fundyland-Baptist-Theocratic-Dictatorship in the last years of my high school. Mullah-Fundy (KJV-Only) told me I was too immature and "not a man" and that dating is unbiblical so I stopped dating throughout my remaining high school years and my 2-year stint in the military. By the time I was liberated in college, the twin-evil combinations of a heavy academic workload (thank you Computer Science!), getting out of the fishbowl, and the fact I missed Orientation Week and the first few weeks of school due to a bad leg injury caused me to miss out on acquiring a social circle - which is a must in finding a girl I like. So yes, I *did* have a love life when I was young. But due to a mixture of bad circumstances, poor self-responsibility in my part, and with Fundyland playing no small part in it - that was why I'm still single for so long. Now I understand why I come to America to study abroad for a year - to thoroughly break free from these shackles, and start life anew when I return back to my country. Too young, too immature, and now (hopefully not) too late. *sighs* An outstanding project in progress, by the Grace of God. |
(This post was last modified: 04-12-2012 03:15 PM by Elijah Craig.)
Post: #132
RE: Dating for Recovering Fundies
Didn't know you were in the military... makes sense given where you're from. Here it's considered extremely bad form for any preacher to tell someone in the military they're "not a man."
I think you're a very bright person and he was just talking like that to break your confidence and get you into submission. |
(This post was last modified: 04-12-2012 03:26 PM by Elijah Craig.)
Post: #133
RE: Dating for Recovering Fundies
So, a question about this online dating thing. I finally created a profile. I had joined one to look for some dumb reason, and found 3-5 girls within 40 miles that I'd actually want to know better.
So far all I get are "Hi" or "Hello" or "What's up" in my inbox. Like 3-5 of them a day. I'm not remotely attracted to most of them. Others are 15 years younger. Others are just... I guess I don't understand what makes a 24 year old high school drop out who works retail introduce herself on a dating website to a guy whose profile says "MASTERS" in education and "COMPUTER SYSTEM ENGINEER" as title, especially when they're not that attractive. Not that I consider myself a prize catch, I just think that as far as socio-economic class goes we're way far apart and that's even before considering the age difference. I look at their profile and there is nothing that makes me think we have anything in common other than geography and ethnic background. What do they expect me to say? What's the best approach to this? Should I just ignore them? Give an equally boring response? I would never ignore a person in real life, but there are people I don't know and whose names I don't know and whom I've never met. And like I said, there are 3-5 per day. |
Post: #134
RE: Dating for Recovering Fundies
Then there's this. I asked my sister if she had any good pictures I could use on my profile. This is her response:
Quote:Looked at my pics. Nothing good. Sorry. You're either hairy and unkempt and/or a bit too "healthy" looking. I am not sure why I still consider her part of the family. |
Post: #135
RE: Dating for Recovering Fundies
I'd love to get told I am not a man, you bet your arse off I would flip the switch and go off.
Post: #136
RE: Dating for Recovering Fundies
(04-07-2012 08:14 PM)Elijah Craig Wrote:(09-20-2011 09:27 PM)Elijah Craig Wrote: Last Friday night I stepped into a bar and within 20 minutes two different women walked up to me and said "I want to F&#% you!" Wow. I am just speechless. I can´t even muster an insult re: Clarksburg. Except to say that I now entirely understand why you don´t want to date the available women in your town. "You are now DR.redbeardiam." - Presbygirl Proud recipient of "the blessedhopebaptist badge of bitterness" |
Post: #137
RE: Dating for Recovering Fundies
The most absurd thing is that went on for six minutes less than a block away from both city hall and the county courthouse (two police stations) and you never saw a berry flashing the whole time.
Post: #138
RE: Dating for Recovering Fundies
These are my words about meeting girls in bars for all recovering Fundy dudes:
The first thing to realize is that girls like guys. Girls have sex drives. Pick girls who are in your league and move forward on the operating principle that you are both open to the same thing. Nice guys do win. Don't be a pushover. Be a nice guy. Consider the interests and feelings of the girl. It's not about you getting what you want. It's about both of you getting what you want. Together. Don't move on bar trash. Nice girls do go bars just as nice guys do. Talk to the girls who look like they don't live in the bar. The ones who are maybe a little too fixed up to be there. The ones who don't know everyone there. Walk up and talk to them. Don't hit on every girl in the place. People want to feel like they're special. So turn your attention to one girl. She can leave. She can be approached by other guys. She might come back around and talk to you. That's how bars are. Take it or leave it. Don't be obsessive. If she's not receptive, she's not receptive. There are other fish in the sea. Try again another night. Or give it enough time and talk to another girl. Be yourself. Smart girls, good girls... they usually have decent bullshit detectors. Don't put up a front. Be who you are and if they see you are who you are, you gain a lot of points right there. It's OK to let them know you have a sex drive. It's OK to let them know you would some day like to bone them. They already know it. If you try to hide it you're weird or your gay. Just don't be creepy or in their face about it. Probably not a good idea to use the word "bone." |
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Union director Bill Clutter takes a look at construction plans for the Oglesby Union. The project, which includes repaving the courtyard, is set to be complete in mid-July. / Blair Stokes/FSView
Whether adding new building segments, standard maintenance or even remodeling overhauls, preserving the vitality of the Oglesby Union, originally built in the 1960s, has long been a priority for Union administration.
Oglesby Union renovations began in early May as the latest phase of a continual upkeep process. Construction is slated for completion in mid-July, said Union Director Bill Clutter.
Weve got an old building here but were trying to keep it refreshed and new-looking for our students, Clutter said. I think that students want to see the place look nice. We all do.
Clutter also said that the project will focus on repaving the surface of the Union Courtyard, both east side and west side, with visually appealing brickwork arranged in circular patterns. The remodeling of the Union comes on the heels of the reconstructed amphitheater in front of UPS and Salad Creations. Clutter said the look of the finished product of the Union Courtyard was inspired in part by the amphitheater remodeling completed the summer prior. That project was initiated in order to better accommodate students and their activities. This current project is of the same mission.
The renovation of the courtyard was an idea that was brought up because of a need for the student body to be better served through that space, Union Board chair Terrence Williams said.
Addressing that need for a rejuvenated courtyard surface, Union administration and the Union Board worked in tandem with the Student Government Association to fund the current construction project that will effectively replace the old, cracking patchwork of concrete. SGA matched the Unions contribution of $100,000, bringing the union remodeling project total to $200,000. This sum will cover the construction that includes pavers, fresh concrete and the large, cylindrical planters.
This is an investment in keeping the Union somewhat up to date, Clutter said. It will give students a nicer atmosphere, more conducive to our activities. On the eastside, we have a lot of step shows, a lot of sororities and fraternities with their different functions. Itll allow for better functions in a nicer environment.
While the final product approaches, students currently enrolled for the summer B term have to contend with the obstructions posed by the construction. Some students, like Andrea Fetchik, are frustrated with temporarily decreased function of the Union caused by the construction process.
Its really aggravating, Fetchik said. The Union is the heart of the school. Its the social area of the school, and even though its summer and not a lot of people are here, its where all the social aspects of the school are, where all the food is. And now its blocked off so you cant do anything there.
Other students, however, are acknowledging the disruption and looking toward the completion of the project.
Im not too crazy about the construction, but I understand its for the benefit of FSU, student Cheyenne Rhon said. Im really looking forward to seeing the finished product. I trust FSU. They always end up putting better things on campus.
Though the Union remodeling effort is just one of many summer construction projects at FSU, it is located in one of the Universitys most high traffic areas. Clutter said that about 20,000 students pass through the Union on a given day during the regular school year. That statistic largely decreases during the summer semesters and this relative lull was the most practical time period for a large-scale renovation.
Its about the only downtime that we really have, Clutter said. Even though were busy with orientation, we were able to work with the orientation schedule.
An abundance of directional signs denoting walking detours and the locations of popular Union attractions, like Crenshaw Lanes, help to guide incoming freshman and their parents as they navigate the campus during orientation. Because most of the activities occur in places other than the Union, construction hasnt interfered much with orientation. Peak hours of construction are 5 a.m. to 8 a.m. in order to lessen possible disturbances during orientation activities, which usually begin at 9 p.m. Union and orientation officials have been cooperating to work around the construction, holding events that were traditionally held in the Union Courtyard on the Union Green instead. Also relocated to the Union Green are the festivities of Market Wednesday.
Despite the current inconveniences, Williams remains confident that this renovation is in the best interest of students and that this renovation will only improve the social functions of the Union.
The renovation of the Union Courtyard is definitely going to be a benefit to the student body, Williams said. The Union Courtyard is a gathering place. As we like to say, the Union is the living room of the campus. Its where everyone wants to come, and its where so many people cross paths. I think more people will find that the Union Courtyard is a place that they want to be.


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Moyea PPT to DVD Burner Lite 2.3.0.042
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Tech for Less has the Navigon 2100 Max GPS Receiver for $107.25, after $22.75 savings.
Sony STR-DN1010: New HDMI features, but a step behind competitors
When Sony announced its 2010 line of AV receivers in February, the STR-DN1010 was the first AV receiver announced with 3D pass-through capability, and it was a step-up feature over Sony's STR-DH810. Since then, however, 3D compatibility has become commonplace, trickling down to receivers as inexpensive as Denon's $250 AVR-391 and Pioneer's $230 VSX-520-K.
That largely tells the story of Sony's midrange AV receiver, which is certainly an improvement over last year's STR-DN1000, but lags in comparison with competitors, which offer more HDMI inputs, better sound quality, and easy iPod/iPhone connectivity. Even its once … Read more
Pioneer VSX-1020-K: Tons of features, sub-$500
Pioneer ran away with our Editors' Choice in the AV receiver category in 2009, with the VSX-1019AH-K delivering an unmatched combination of performance and features in its price class. Pioneer hasn't slowed down with the new 2010 model, the VSX-1020-K, upping the HDMI connectivity to six inputs while keeping the same excellent sound quality we loved on last year's model.
Our main knock is that the VSX-1020-K lacks some of the newest HDMI features available on competing receivers, such as audio return channel and standby pass-through. We're also not thrilled it's the only receiver at this … Read more
New AV receiver features to look for in 2010
New models of AV receivers always roll out later in the year and we're in the midst of rounding up the best midrange models of 2010. AV receivers certainly don't change as quickly as other home theater products, like HDTVs and Blu-ray players, but every year there are few new features that are important to be aware of when making a buying decision. Here's a quick look at some of the changes to look out for this year in the midrange price level.
3D pass-through Even though it's a completely new feature for 2010, 3D compatibility … Read more
eCOST.com has the Garmin Mobile 20 Bluetooth GPS Receiver for $205.99, after $114 savings.
Is good-enough sound good enough for you?
Few big-screen-TV buyers are willing to invest in bona-fide home theater systems with a receiver, five (or more) speakers, and a subwoofer. Most folks are satisfied with the sound from the tiny stereo speakers built into the display. That's sad, since based on what I've heard from the displays being reviewed at the CNET offices the sound is at best barely passable. In fact, the quality of the built-in speakers is getting worse with each passing year. Great-looking high-definition video matched to lo-fi sound doesn't work for me, but we all have our priorities, don't we?
Those considering stepping up to a $300 sound bar speaker are more sophisticated buyers, and by the time we get to home theater in a box systems, with five or more speakers and a subwoofer, we're getting to the elite buyer class. I'm not joking, HTIB buyers can deal with a tangle of wires, and nearly all the setup hassles associated with a receiver-based home theater system. If you want an even higher quality home theater system with a receiver and full-size speaker/subwoofer system plan on spending close to $2,000. Sure, you can spend less, but you'll just wind up with something that doesn't sound much better sounding than a really good HTIB.
Here are my recommendations for the best-sounding affordable home theater solutions. (Editors' Note: The following list is Steve Guttenberg's personal opinion, based on his evaluation of sound quality and audio performance. For a more complete list of CNET's official product recommendations [which takes design and features into account], check out CNET's in-depth list of best home audio products.)… Read more
Yamaha intros new Aventage line of receivers
Yamaha has announced a new line of AV receivers, Aventage, designed to put a greater focus on performance, with Yamaha claiming that the new models have been redesigned from the ground up. For those of you counting, Aventage is now the fourth separate line of Yamaha AV receivers, in addition to the existing RX-V, HTR, and NeoHD lines. Aventage consists of five new models--RX-A700 ($650 list), RX-A800 ($800), RX-A1000 ($1,100), RX-A2000 ($1,500), and the RX-A3000 ($1,900)--which will be released throughout August and September.
In terms of features, the low-end RX-A700 doesn't offer much that's … Read more
The 'cure' for receiver feature glut: Stereo receivers
Judging by the Comments responding to my recent "Do receivers have too many features?" blog post, a lot of folks think today's receivers are overstuffed with gizmos. Now sure, if you crave a full complement of the latest doodads--streaming Rhapsody-Napster-Pandora-Flickr, USB inputs, iPhone certification, Audyssey MultEQ XT Auto Calibration, Wi-Fi, Windows Vista, DLNA, HD Radio, Internet Radio, multiroom-multizone connectivity, Ethernet and RS-232C ports, or Bluetooth Wireless Audio Transmission Capability--rush out and buy a home theater receiver. Enjoy reading the 120-page operating manual and exploring layer after layer of setup options. Good times!
But if the goal is to simply enjoy music and a movie every now and then, do yourself a favor and consider a stereo receiver, or if you don't care about radio, an integrated amplifier (an integrated amp is essentially a receiver without a radio). Another plus for stereo home theater converts, they'll never have to deal with convoluted speaker setup menus, or risk an out-of-balance sound mix. Stereo is nearly impossible to get wrong.
A lot of people think stereo receivers are old hat and they "have to" buy a surround receiver. Wrong! And as I pointed out in the blog post the other day, home theater receiver features aren't "free"; manufacturers pay very significant licensing fees and royalties to the companies that developed those features. To bring a receiver in on budget, engineers and product planners make cost-saving decisions to cut back on other aspects of the design. The audio circuitry is probably the first to take a hit.
With stereo receivers the engineering budget is directed to the audio side and Denon, Marantz, NAD, Onkyo, Sony and Yamaha all make stereo receivers. Apparently, there's still a market for stereo components, and now that more and more folks are getting into LPs, most new stereo receivers have turntable inputs. … Read more


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Chocolate Truffles Recipe
- 3 cups (18 ounces) semisweet chocolate chips
- 1 can (14 ounces) sweetened condensed milk
- 1 tablespoon vanilla extract
- Chopped flaked coconut, chocolate sprinkles, colored spinkles, baking cocoa and/or finely chopped nuts, optional
- In a microwave-safe bowl, melt chocolate chips and milk; stir until smooth.Stir in vanilla. Chill for 2 hours or until mixture is easy to handle.
- Shape into 1-in. balls. Roll in the coconut, sprinkles, cocoa or nuts if desired. Yield: about 4 dozen.
Reviews for Chocolate Truffles(7)
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These are good and easy, just not anything special. I do love the topping ideas--for any kind of truffle.
I made these last year, and will be making more tomorrow. They are fantastic. I did learn that if your truffles don't hold their shape, you can add a small amount of confectioner's sugar to stiffen them just a bit. Make them small, roll them quickly in the coatings and put them straight back in the fridge UNCOVERED. Once they dry a bit and get a "crust", they hold their shape well.
These didn't turn out for me at all. Even after hours in the fridge they wouldn't keep their round shape and kept going flat. I had to throw away the whole batch.
Simple and delicious!
Oh so good!! I added 1 T. peppermint flavor, and the family loved it. Do not recommend using cococut, as it does not stick. Even had trouble getting the sprinkle to stick. But over all, very tasty!
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True Religion
Striped Waffle Beanie
True Religion constantly sets the standards for premium clothing. With it's rugged tradition, trademark washes and fits this product is a must have for any true cowboy at heart.
- 33% viscose 23% polyamide 18% cotton 16% lambswool 6% cashmere 4% angora
- Revolve Style No. TRUE-WH37
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Tera Sukman
joined 1 year, 12 months ago
Branson TEA Party
Mission Statement
The impetus for the Tea Party movement is excessive government spending and taxation. Our mission is to attract, educate, organize, and mobilize our fellow citizens to secure public policy consistent with our three core values of Fiscal Responsibility, Constitutionally Limited Government and Free Markets.
Core Values
•Fiscal Responsibility
•Constitutionally Limited Government
•Free Markets
Fiscal Responsibility: Fiscal Responsibility by government honors and respects the freedom of the individual to spend the money that is the fruit of their own labor. A constitutionally limited government, designed to protect the blessings of liberty, must be fiscally responsible or it must subject it's citizenry to high levels of taxation that unjustly restrict the liberty our Constitution was designed to protect. Such runaway deficit spending as we now see in Washington D.C. compels us to take action as the increasing national debt is a grave threat to our national sovereignty and the personal and economic liberty of future generations.
Constitutionally Limited Government: We, the members of the Branson Tea Party Coalition, are inspired by our founding documents and regard the Constitution of the United States to be the supreme law of the land. We believe that it is possible to know the original intent of the government our founders set forth, and stand in support of that intent. Like the founders, we support states' rights for those powers not expressly stated in the Constitution. As the government is of the people, by the people and for the people, in all other matters we support the personal liberty of the individual, within the rule of law.
Free Markets: A free market is the economic consequence of personal liberty. The founders believed that personal and economic freedom were indivisible, as do we. Our current government's interference distorts the free market and inhibits the pursuit of individual and economic liberty. Therefore, we support a return to the free market principles on which this nation was founded and oppose government intervention into the operations of private business.
Our Philosophy
The Branson Tea Party Coalition as an organization believes in Fiscal Responsibility, Constitutionally Limited Government, and Free Markets. Branson Tea Party Coalition is a non-partisan grassroots organization of individuals united by our core values derived from the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution of the United States of America and the Bill Of Rights as explained in the Federalist Papers. We recognize and support the strength of grassroots organization powered by activism and civic responsibility at a local level. We hold that the United States is a republic conceived by its architects as a nation whose people were granted "unalienable rights†by our Creator. Chiefly among these are the rights to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.†The Branson Tea Party Coalition stands with our founders, as heirs to the republic, to claim our rights and duties which preserve their legacy and our own. We hold, as did the founders, that there exists an inherent benefit to our country when private property and prosperity are secured by natural law and the rights of the individual.
email: firstname.lastname@example.com
Jonservative joined the group Branson TEA Party 1 month, 1 week ago
Hello. I live between Springfield and Branson and I'm ready to get the tar and feathers out on these RINOs and big groups who have declared war against the TEA Party, especially after we've done so much of their leg work in recent campaigns all across the U.S.
Although I'm closer to Springfield, I can bring myself on down to Branson anytime…[Read more]
Ernie joined the group Branson TEA Party 1 month, 3 weeks ago
spiritwolf04 joined the group Branson TEA Party 2 months ago
mike posted an update in the group Branson TEA Party 2 months, 1 week ago
Fellow tea party patriots, today our senators Roy Blunt and Claire Mccaskill voted for cloture ending debate on obamacare handing victory to the democrats. Betrayed once again.
mike joined the group Branson TEA Party 2 months, 1 week ago
Andy Noble joined the group Branson TEA Party 8 months ago
Anthony Mucciolo posted an update in the group Branson TEA Party 9 months, 3 weeks ago
For those who hold out hope for real change, this will be well worth your reading, and sharing. We need a New Revitalized Republican Party, and every conservative and libertarian who aspire to run for the Congress and the Senate in 2014 will most likely defeat their counterparts if they include all or most of these positions in their platform. The…[Read more]
Anthony Mucciolo joined the group Branson TEA Party 9 months, 3 weeks ago
WMH joined the group Branson TEA Party 1 year, 3 months ago
Oscar Booth joined the group Branson TEA Party 1 year, 9 months ago
Change What's Possible joined the group Branson TEA Party 1 year, 10 months ago


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Wedding-dress shopping making you cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs? Take a break from the big white dresses and set your sights on the red carpet. This awards season, we're loving the fashion do's, and we think they'll inspire any shopping-fatigued bride. Here's a roundup of our top-five favorite looks:
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CWIS (Collection Workflow Integration System) is a software package designed to help assemble, organize, and share information about resources online. The software conforms to international and academic standards for metadata while providing turnkey setup and a user-friendly interface, allowing resource collection developers (and end users) to focus on what they want to share (or find) without worrying about the technical details. It provides extensive support for cataloging resources with standardized metadata, which can then be automatically shared via an array of channels out to the larger Internet community, helping others find your work.
RCPlive is a router live CD based on Debian 7 and the RCP100 routing suite. It is a flexible firewalling and routing platform, configured using a command line interface syntax similar to the one found in commercial routers. The software runs directly from a read-only CD or USB stick, and provides persistence by saving the configuration into a file placed on an existing disk partition.
Turn Watcher is a tool based on Dungeons & Dragons rules. It is used to track the initiative of your players and monsters. It includes an option to roll initiative on every round, roll will, listen, and spot, and it has a status column that shows you the current status of your players. When you enter a player or monster, you also enter all of its modifiers, so the computer can take care of rolling all the dice for you. Still want to roll initiative? You can simply order the characters with the Move Up and Move Down options.
Griffon IDE is an IDE for HTML, Bash, Perl, PHP, C, etc. It allows the generation of source code in a few clicks, avoiding traps. It features auto completion, an integrated terminal, project management for C, SFTP mounting (mounting a directory via an ssh key), automatic replacement of text, and a session management tab.
Zorp is a proxy firewall suite with its core architecture is built around today's security demands: it uses application level proxies, is modular and component based, uses a script language to describe policy decisions, makes it possible to monitor encrypted traffic, lets you override client actions, and lets you protect your servers with its built in IDS capabilities.
"fgallery" is a static photo gallery generator with no frills that has a stylish, minimalist look. It shows your photos, and nothing else. There is no server-side processing, only static generation. The resulting gallery can be uploaded anywhere without additional requirements and works with any modern browser.


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Civil War Interactive Discussion Board > Civil War Talk > General Civil War Talk > Is the Confederate Flag a symbol of racism? |
Moderated by: javal1 | Page: 1 2 3 4 |
Is the Confederate Flag a symbol of racism? | Rating: |
Author | Post |
Posted: Sun Apr 2nd, 2006 08:43 pm |
1st Post |
VirtualCivilWar Member - Photographer
Check out these two stories I just posted links to on my site! Battle flag won't fly at Ringgold Depot for Confederate History Month .....They described the flag as a symbol of hatred and said it should be removed. news.mywebpal.com/news_tool_v2.cfm?show=localnews&pnpID=724&NewsID=706891&CategoryID=11571&on=1 and this one: (a kid was suspended for 5 days for flying a Confederate Flag) Mexican Flag Displays Stir Debate School officials said Confederate flags are prohibited on campus because they are associated with racism http://www.kcra.com/money/8369650/detail.html What do you think? Mike http://www.virtualcivilwar.com |
Posted: Mon Apr 3rd, 2006 01:47 am |
2nd Post |
Harry Member
To some, the union flag represents racism and oppression. The stars and bars was the flag of a confederation of states which believed it had a better idea on how to do things that concerned them. Yes, there have been groups with racist beliefs that have adopted the stars and bars as their symbol. Does that mean the flag itself suggests racism? No. All this noise from politicians about what this flag represents and what that flag represents is just that--noise. Each of us have our own beliefs of what the flag--which ever flag it is--represents. Should the stars and bars be allowed to fly during a reenactment? Absolutely. It is a representation of an historical period. To suggest otherwise displays an ignorance of history. |
Posted: Mon Apr 3rd, 2006 03:23 am |
3rd Post |
Basecat Member
Evening all. As mentioned by Harry, and the problem I have with those of today when they use the flag to enhance their ideals, I wonder just how many have even studied the Civil War. IMHO, they have not. Harry is most correct about how some feel about the Stars and Stripes, in terms of being a racist flag. Point I am trying to make, is how can you use a symbol of the 19th century, and try to make it stick with 21st century views?? Regards from the Garden State, Steve Basic |
Posted: Mon Apr 3rd, 2006 04:36 am |
4th Post |
Tigerreb Member
When this is brought up, I try and expain why the flag was created and what it tired to represent. Also how some groups (KKK, Nazis, etc) have taken the flag and mis-used it. If all else fails, I explain that the US Flag (the good old stars and stripes) is also rascist, in that slavery was legal under this flag from the creation of the US to 1866 (figure 80 some on years). I also bring up that people representing the US Government flew this flag at the same time they gave smallpox infected blankets to the Indians. Some times it works, sometimes not JIMT |
Posted: Mon Apr 3rd, 2006 04:38 pm |
5th Post |
MAubrecht Member
I've written and published a ton on this subject, but in an effort not to bore you, I'll submit this brief statement... Part of preserving history is acknowledging your past. To try to ignore or remove those parts of history that offend some is a blatant act of dishonesty and disrespect. What example are we setting and what disservice are we doing to future generations by trying to erase our past? Why can't we just acknowledge that different people see different things in the "Star and Bars," and that that's OK? |
Posted: Mon Apr 3rd, 2006 06:38 pm |
6th Post |
Art B. Member
Hello all...My first post on this particular discussion board. "Stars and bars" refers to the first national flag of the Confederacy, not the Confederate battle flag, which is the true victim in this misdirected bit of nationalistic, politically incorrect angst. Take a peek here: http://www.grpflags.com/historical_flags/stars_and_bars.htm Anyhow, if any Civil War flag should be argued against, it should be the Confederate national flag [in any of its versions] since it was the one that represented the governing bodies that, in their consititution, championed slavery. The battle flag, square [not rectangular, that's the naval jack]--solid red--blue X--white stars, has been misapproriated, misrepresented, and used for vile purposes against minorities. The battleflag should be copyrighted and any commercial user of it charged an arm-and-a-leg. I can't believe the UDC hasn't campaigned against the Neo-Nazis, Skinheads, and KKK for absconding with such an important symbol of US history, not just southern US history. Right, sweep it [the Civil War] under the rug, forget all about it...oh, except for certain parts that certain groups want everybody to now focus upon. It's an unpleasant topic, let's erase it from our history books -- there, now we don't have to face it! Sorry, folks, it's still there, a big lump that'll trip visitors. Talk about rule by a minority, talk about apartheid in the US! Some few folk squawk to the "right" person or news outlet and, by that little noise, the majority is made to kow-tow and make all the allowances for the small group's sensitivity. Anyhow, it's getting a bit fascist if you ask me; get rid of that flag, get rid of that book, get rid of that idea, get rid of those people...Where will it end? Hey, that question has been asked before. Here we are, repeating history! Art B. |
Posted: Mon Apr 3rd, 2006 09:34 pm |
7th Post |
MAubrecht Member
Hello Art and welcome to the boards. You are correct in your statement. I think most people understand that despite the "popular misconception," the traditional term of the "Stars and Bars" historically refers to the National Flag of the Southern Confederacy and not the C.S.A. battle flag. However, our discussion (I think) is in relation to all Confederate banners - which will be referred to throughout as the "Stars and Bars," and/or the "C.S.A. battle flag," as well as the flag of "The Confederate States of America." The bottom line is that some people refuse to admit that symbology means different things to different people. It all comes down to context (in my opinion). A C.S.A. flag (any Confederate flag) within the context of history or heritage preservation is very different from one that is used in a supremacists rally. |
Posted: Mon Apr 3rd, 2006 09:40 pm |
8th Post |
TimHoffman01 Member
Art B. wrote: The battleflag should be copyrighted and any commercial user of it charged an arm-and-a-leg. I can't believe the UDC hasn't campaigned against the Neo-Nazis, Skinheads, and KKK for absconding with such an important symbol of US history, not just southern US history. Actually both the UDC and the SCV (and I believe the UCV before them) DID try exaclty that. They had wanted to prevent any business from using it as a logo and political groups or individuals from using it for political purposes. Short story, the courts ruled that they couldn't do it. Ironically they sited the same constitutional issues for the Battle Flag that are sited today by opponents of protecting "Old Glory" from acts of preceived desecration. I would suggest anyone interested read "The Confederate Battle Flag: America's Most Embattled Emblem", by John Coski. He traces the Battle Flag from development for the armies (there IS a rectangular version by the way, it was for the Army of Tennessee...although Hardees division obtained permission to stick with their original battle flags, the "New Moon" flags) through its (mis)appropriation as a political symbol. It is very well written and can be quite an eye opener for folks on both sides of "the flag issue." |
Posted: Tue Apr 4th, 2006 04:01 pm |
9th Post |
Ulysses Member
Friends...The question " Is the Rebel Flag a racist symbol?" The answer should not be debated. It is CERTAINLY a racist symbol and has been for more than 140 yrs!! I have been to many events (especially at the the Southern Poverty Law Center programs) & Klan, SCV, UDC, League of the South-ers (let's call them LOS-ers) & Neo-Nazi members ofter turn out, all displaying the Reb Battle Flag along with obnoxious and and often threatening signage. I have NEVER seen any SCV or UDC member turn on the other groups for using their REB Battle flag.( I think JAVALI wrote a GREAT editorial on this very thing a few months back at this very site!). As a former worker in the Civil Rights battle and a school administrator during school integration here in THE SOUTH, I speak from experience , tainted with shame and embarrassment for the acts of SCV members and others who were and are determined to put the battle flag in the faces of not only minorities, but all of us. This just didn't happen in the "old days"....but as recent as last October when my name was placed on the "Wall of Tolerance" in Montgomery, Al. headquarters of the SPLC, there they all were...not condemning one another as to who or who did not have ownership of the Rebel Flag, but hanging out like a bunch of cousins at a family reunion!! Of course, it made the ceremony even more a source of pride for me & my fellow inductees. Thanks!! In Ocala, Fl. the REB Battle flag still was flown in front of the County Court house in this CENTURY! Think for just a minute of being a black resident living there, descendant of slaves, and having to do business in that court house, and having to look up at that Battle Flag! As the head of the Concerned Citizens of Ocala, (a Black minister) explained it, .." If K-Mart flew this flag in front of their store, I sure wouldn't go there to buy my shoes." Me neither. It's obvious that those who confused the Battle Flag (never adopted by the Confederate Congress to represent the CSA) and the Stars & Bars (an officially adopted CSA symbol) should NOT be in this exchange (No Offense to you). But an exchange here on the "BOARDS" is about learning and comraderie...we are all brothers & sisters with a common interest in a period of American History....the Civil War. No, it would be stupid for us to fall for the line put out by Southerners that we are trying to "bury" their symbols, for that is just a lie. The Rebel Flag is part of our history and should never be hidden. But it needs to be displayed at (1) reenactments (2) accurate living history events (including confederate memorial ceremonies) and (3) in museums. Who can tell me WHY it needs to be anywhere else? Let's ALL be a little more tolerant...and stop blaming minorities for trying to erase the Battle Flag from history. And let's re-spect the School dress Codes. Somehow this even crumbles into just another attempt to be divisive. And above all, stop using that lame whining about "Old Glory" being a racist banner whenever this Reb Flag debate is tossed around. Have you looked at an American Flag since 1865? I just looked out my window at mine (which flies in my yard right near my replica Napolean Cannon) and geez, friends, it don't look like any flag that ever flew when slavery was legal...(oops... did I just say there was a time when you would EXPECT a US flag & slavery should have existed (legally) together...at the same time in history???) OK...thanks for listening. But before you start mumbling about some 'Damn Yankee' let me tell you I live in the South, my 7 kids were born and raised (and attended school) in the South and one of my ancestors, whom I honor & respect was the highest ranking Naval Officer to come out of the CSA Admiral Franklin Buchanan. So let's not turn our discussion board into a mean spirited debate over this issue. I am sure I won't change your thinking if you fly the Reb flag at your home, and you sure won't change mine!!! Until next time, I remain, your most obedient servant...Ulysses Last edited on Tue Apr 4th, 2006 04:26 pm by javal1 |
Posted: Tue Apr 4th, 2006 04:27 pm |
10th Post |
javal1 Grumpy Geezer
Ulysses, Just wanted you to know that I edited the spacing on your post to make it easier to read. I didn't change any content, just closed up the spacing. Hope you don't mind. |
You have chosen to ignore indy19th. click Here to view this post |
Posted: Tue Apr 4th, 2006 05:13 pm |
12th Post |
javal1 Grumpy Geezer
The editorial Ulysses mentioned was actually about 3 or 4 various issues with the Confederate flag being one of them. It was written well over a year ago, but for what it's worth this was (and remains) my take on the subject... "CWi has been around for over eight years, and we have never publicly stated our position on what some mistakenly see as an important issue. There's no doubt that we could fill our front page every day with news accounts of kids getting suspended while wearing confederate flag t-shirts, and similar stories. The problem is that those stories have nothing to do with the Civil War. The whole flag issue – as it has evolved – is a silly exercise, many times assisted by those who claim to be "the protectors" of the banner. As proof, I offer this challenge: Find a photograph of a KKK rally in which the Confederate flag is being carried. It's not hard – there are thousands out there. Any Klan rally, march or demonstration from any decade will do. Now look for the groups in the crowd that are protesting the use of the flag by that hate group. What's that you say? You can't find anyone protesting the use of the flag as a symbol of hate? Surely you must be wrong, because I can google "Confederate Heritage Group" and come up with dozens of organizations that claim to protect that flag from "misuse". Is it possible these groups didn't exist in the 20th century – during the 60's, the 70's. the 80's? Did they just spring up in the last few months? Perhaps they were busy on the days those particular rallies were held. But yet these very same groups today sit, wringing their hands and writhing with indignation, bemoaning the fact that the Confederate battle flag has become a symbol of racism. It has, but before you continue to berate others for it, you need to answer the simple question: Where the hell were you, oh self-proclaimed defender of the banner, when this hijacking was happening? There are two types of places the Confederate flag should be displayed. It's the same two places where the 32- or 35-star United States flag deserves to be displayed – at historical events and sites, and in museums and other educational venues in the course of learning. They are historical artifacts. All of the other symbolism and rhetoric (on both sides) is a personal issue. So for those who advocate its use on lunch pails and book covers, and for those who feel it promotes heritage to wear it as a prom dress or a tee-shirt, I can only respectfully disagree and suspect that your use of the flag is not what our ancestors had in mind. And to the "hard-core" heritage groups I can only say this: Your first inclination will be to call us "anti-Confederate" – that is, after all, your modus operandi. But you got so caught up in making the story about YOU rather than your ancestors that you lost the rest of America. You lost us when you demanded that a Lincoln statue not be put in Richmond. You lost us when you said it was offensive to fly an American flag at the Hunley funerals. And you continue to lose us with your "South Will Rise Again" t-shirts. I'm sure the south will rise again – and in fact has already done so - as part of the United States of America. Most of the southern veterans of the war understood that. Too bad about the intellectual generational degradation. We belong to a larger heritage group. A group dedicated to remembrance and preservation rather than trying to "keep alive" a historical era. A group that respects the Confederate soldier and the Union soldier equally. A group that never resorts to personal aspersions directed towards the men who fought that war on either side. And we don't justify slavery. Not when it was practiced by the North or the South. A group that understands that this was a tragic and bloody and costly war, not to be treated as if it were a sporting event where we "root, root, root" for the home team. And most of all we understand that our views and our opinions on events that led up to the war are irrelevant to the basic task of preserving history. We even have a name – we call ourselves History Lovers. Membership is free…. join anytime." |
Posted: Tue Apr 4th, 2006 05:48 pm |
13th Post |
MAubrecht Member
Ulysses, You've had some great insights. You want the freedom to state your case (which you absolutely have the right to do) BUT towards the end of your post you say something about "let's not turn our discussion board into a mean spirited debate over this issue" - yet you enter this conversation using an extremely large and bolded font which at least appears online as "aggressive". You state your argument with passion, and conviction BUT with an insightful tone... at least that's how it comes across "visually." Perhaps your firsthand experience as a "former worker in the Civil Rights battle" has left you with a bad taste in regards to the C.S.A. flag and ultimately Confederate history, but to make blanket statements that implies (at least in my take) that ALL recognition of C.S.A. symbolism continues (key word being "continues") to stand for the remembrance of a pro-slavery ideology in the 21st Century is wrong. You say "Think for just a minute of being a black resident living there, descendant of slaves, and having to do business in that court house, and having to look up at that Battle Flag!" Personally, I do not care what they think - just as they do not care what I think when they drive down the street blasting their offensive and profanity filled rap music. What? That sounds so insensitive - but that is my point exactly - why should it bother them? Why should it bother me? Why do we feel the need to be so politically-correct and ultra-sensitive at the expense of each other rights? There are certainly more important issues that need to be addressed - not flags or music. In other words, we BOTH should have the freedom to express our history and heritage. We BOTH have the right to feel pride in our ancestors and cultures no matter what color we are. Also, what about other races? According to your logic, isn't an American Flag flying on an Indian Reservation a slap in the face to their ancestors? OR... is it a historic symbol that (at one time) was linked to crimes against humanity. Certainly Old Glory did not stand "solely" for the desecration of Native Americans - just as the "Stars and Bars etc." did not stand "solely" for slavery. It stood for REBELLION against a ruling power. BTW: so did the Stars and Stripes. Once again - symbology means different things to different people. True EQUALITY is the ability for ALL people to express themselves without fear of retribution from the other - whether that is a person flying a Confederate flag OR a person driving around listening to rap music. To prevent someone from recognizing their heritage, or expressing their culture (any person - of any color) is exactly what the Civil Rights movement fought to prevent. I own a C.S.A. flag. I do NOT fly it, BUT I fully support one's right to do so. I can tell you that my black friends (no, I do not use the PC term of African-American as the "hyphenated-American" is a self-induced segregating term in my opinion - we are ALL just Americans)... anyway, they have no problem with the Confederate biographies and articles that I write (which openly praise great Christian soldiers in gray) and they are not offended by my support of the flag issue as they know that I am NOT one of those groups that you mention who have perverted the flag for their own racist ideology. In other words, if someone wants to pass judgment on an entire group of people - because of the negative actions of a few, ignorant groups - then they are just as guilty of "isms'" as the people they persecute. You, having experience in the Civil Rights movement, have to agree on that. Freedom and equality are God-given blessings that we are lucky enough (being Americans) to enjoy. That means freedom and equality for everyone, including those that wish to recognize the Confederate flag. Once again, I applaud your convictions and I respect your beliefs, but you said yourself, "Let's ALL be a little more tolerant..." Tolerance goes BOTH ways. |
Posted: Tue Apr 4th, 2006 07:25 pm |
14th Post |
Ulysses Member
MAubrecht...Thanks for the Post. Of course I think everyone is entitled to an opinion on this issue, but even you repeated my caution to not making this a "meanspirited debate" and the operative word there was "MEANSPIRITED". So obviously a man such as yourself, (tolerant, proud of your heritage,etc I gathered) must know the flag (HISORICALLY A RACIST symbol) has a rather devisive intent, no matter WHO waves it around at 'demonstrations'. But so is the ploy of SCV seeking proclamations for "April is Confederate History Month" (Suffolk Va. News, CWI website, March 2006). Truth is, if the SCV & UDC would have asked for the month to be CIVIL WAR HISTORY MONTH ( afterall, Union reenactors were taking part as well), they would not have boycotted the event (remember the kid down the block who always took his ball & went home when he didn't get his way?) Of course, Suffolk is just one town of many where the officials refused similar proclamations with the "honorable" SCV threatening to kick them out of office ASAP. I touch on this, because the original lead POST that got this started fits into this catagory. Check it out. We may be more alike than you think. Heck, I own a Rebel Battle Flag myself! I have even been a featured Confederate Memorial Day speaker and have received stand- ing ovations after addressing large (100+) SCV meetings!! Here's a difference, though. If blacks (Haitians, Mexicans, Guatemalens, etc.) annoyed me with loud boom box music playing I would repectfully ask them to stop. Try to get a REB to put the battleflag away the same way...yeh, right. By the way, my state has a law that auto-blaring music can't be heard beyond 25 ft.! It's hard to picture that you have this drive-by occurrence so often down your street...do they park at your house or something just to annoy you? Come on. now.... how long does "driving by" take?? Get involved in your local town council & go for the law. That's how it's done. And you will impress the other neighbors on your block for doing it right. They MUST be as annoyed as you. But when you bring this up as a comparison to a REBEL BATTLE Flag being offensive to some of our fellow Americans......my, my my...! Brother Aubrecht, I was hoping you would have commented on my idea to protect the Battle Flag for History's sake.....but, perhaps another time. Oh, and as far as those Indians on the Reservations who fly the American Flag (compliance with US Flag Code) I just don't hear them complain. In fact, most of them are still very proud of the fact that another NATIVE American helped raise the same symbolic banner on IwoJima in WWII. Please tell me that the SCV isn't going to try to put the Battle Flag on Indian Reservations.!!!? Otherwise, what the heck of trying to insert it in the dialogue? Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and opinions. I do respect your right to have them....ULYSSES |
Posted: Tue Apr 4th, 2006 07:46 pm |
15th Post |
MAubrecht Member
As I said General Grant... you are a class act and I thank you for your quick reply. I don't disagree with your points entirely, I just fear that people tend to judge a whole community in an unjust manner and automatically assume the worst of those who chose to fly that flag. Now I may be in a little bit of a different position as I live in Fredericksburg, VA (a Civil War tourist town) so my feeling on the flag flying around here may be a bit different from say, someone who wants to fly one in Buffalo NY. I am surrounded by 4 major battlefields. In other words, IF the area (and the residents of that area) are based in this history and the ancestry and events of the conflict actually took place all around us - then the area (and the ground - and the people whose ancestors fought and died in our very backyards) may fall under a different category from some others you mention. Once again, I think we can both agree to disagree in some instances and agree in others - but the key is for everyone to have the right to express their culture and their heritage on both sides of the issue. Also, I cannot comment on the specific "political issues" that you mention and all I can say is that my own experience with the SCV and UDC has been nothing less than outstanding. I will admit that all groups (no matter what they represent) have people with an agenda and I do not agree with many self-serving and biased agendas. So we do agree somewhat. (BTW: I'm a converted northerner and have no Confederate ancestors - or Union for that matter - and spent the first 20 years of my life in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.) Thanks. Last edited on Tue Apr 4th, 2006 09:27 pm by MAubrecht |
Posted: Tue Apr 4th, 2006 09:58 pm |
16th Post |
Ulysses Member
MAubrecht...Thanks for your reply. By golly, you gave me another thing we have in common....a love for the City of Fredericksburg. I totally agree that I found nothing offensive about any Confederate flag flying in or on the shops. Shop owners were knowlegeable and friendly. I can assure you that when I left, I left behind a large number of Union Bank Notes in the shopkeepers' care!! But I look forward to a return trip there soon. By the way, when the Visitor Center folks downtown recognized me as the GENERAL, they asked for a card or pamphlet and they immediately affixed it to their wall.!! Thanks for the exchange of thoughts and hopefully maybe between the two of us we shared some new ideas with the members. That's what it's all about. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts. Until next time, I remain your obedient servant, Ulysses |
Posted: Sat Apr 8th, 2006 03:29 am |
17th Post |
Shadowrebel Member
Ulysses, The offical flag of the United States of America from 1776 to 1865 always flew over slavery. You are correct that the present day flag did not, however this does not mean it is not a symbol that slavery was once condoned by the government. The rebel flag is only a racist symbol to those who wish to find any excuse to cause trouble. There is no one in alive today that knows what it was like to be a slave. They may have read about it or been told about it, but they have no first hand knowledge or experience of slavery. Without an first hand knowlege you can not know what slavery was like. Was and is slavery wrong, yes. This does not mean that a historical symbol a 140 years old should be banned. Southeners have a right to their heritage just as any other people. I agree with MAubrecht, we are all Americans and using ______American, you fill in the blank with any ethnic background you like, is not what Americans should do. I find that quite racist. Why are the people who are against the Rebel Flag not against the many others who held slaves long before and for a longer time then the South? Why not be offended by their ansestors in Africa who sold their people to the slave traders? Shadowrebel |
Posted: Sat Apr 8th, 2006 03:27 pm |
18th Post |
Ulysses Member
Shadowrebel...reading your post reminded me of the time asa kid when my slightly older brother got caught scooping some icing off a birthday cake my Mom had made for a party.As he always did in situations like that he pointed to me and whined, "Well, HE did it, too." It was usually a lie, of course. The Rebel battle flag is a racist symbol....accept it and stop trying to tiptoe around trying to make Blacks your enemy. It was interesting how you linked the REB flag racism, to Africans taking captives and trading them to slave-traders! Geez, Shadowrebel, I can show some similarity in the world of Biology...starting with the Amoeba. Better yet, the Bible is full of such slave stories!! But the African story seems to fit your example, even though the rest of us just don't get it.("Hey, Mom...HE did it too...")And you seem to be very sure that no one living today knows what slavery was like....but I wonder if you hang out with those SCV members who dress up in CW costumes on week-ends and think they know what THAT was like in 1861! Or maybe some LOS-er was the guest speaker at your SCV gathering and TOLD you how it was. But I will disagree with you...just as we still have some Real Sons & Daughters among us, there are, too, real sons & daughters of slaves. Ihave met a few and my wife (a writer) years ago interviewed "Annie", aged 102, in a retirement home in Georgia. Her family stayed on the Plantation after the Civil War. In Florida, several diaries written by Plantation owner's kids have been compiled by the University of Florida Press. Hey, that's pretty damn close to knowing "how slavery was." And finally, Shadowrebel, how close did you read my posts? Or for that matter, Javali's? I see nothing about anyone wanting to BAN your precious historical banner anywhere ...do you? In fact, my proposal would keep the flag protected...which is more than racist southernors (and others) have done for the past 140 years! Go back &check it out. By the way, does your SCV Camp display Old Glory at their meetings? Do the members recite the Pledge?Calling it like it is does not make me your enemy. I am one of many trying to fix what's broke in this country, and the only people I see standing in the way are those whose Heritage(if you are willing to admit it) is linked to the devisiveness in this Country....and we all know who the main players are in this "Heritage". I can send you a list if you don't know. In fact, I can send you some photos...and guess whose Racist flag is seen in nearly every shot? I would rather we join together, to bring our Country closer...for all AMERICANS. Who knows, we just might clean up the image of that darn racist flag that the REBELS worked so hard to tarnish. And your being offended by _________ Americans...does that include SOUTHERN Americans as I see on bumper stickers & tee-shirts hanging in sutlers tents at reenactments? Hmmm.In fact, I will send you a list of all SCV Camps who have taken Old Glory down and/or refuse to recite the Pledge of Allegiance...because of the word " Indivisible".In the meantime, give some thought to how lenient & generous the North (Damn Yankees) were to those Southern soldiers while many around the government shouted "traitors". Still, not enough, they (Reb vets) continued the "war" against the North through the KKK. Time to grow up and move on, don't you think? Thank you for the Post, Shadowrebel. I respect your opinions as I do your right to express them. Best wishes..Ulysses |
Posted: Sun Apr 9th, 2006 02:53 am |
19th Post |
Shadowrebel Member
Ulysses, You make some interesting asumpstions about me. Unfortunatly they are wrong. I am not trying to make blacks my enemy, I have many black friends. I do not know any SCV members nor do I belong to any such group and any information I have regarding the Civil War or slavery was gained by research. I do not do any re-enacting. As I stated in my post _____ American of any kind is racist. I stand and recite the Pledge of Allegiance anytime I have the opportunity. You are not my ememy. If you check you will see I am from Pennsylvania, not exactly your typical Rebel state, so I have no Southern heritage. As for the rest of your reply: You said you want to limit the Rebel flag to three place;(1) reenactments (2) accurate living history events (including confederate memorial ceremonies) and (3) in museums. I guess that means not banning it to you, only partial banning it. Banning anything in any form is still banning it. Thank you for illustrating my point that slavery was around long before the South was.Why not be angry at any party who condoned slavery, not just the South? The only way to know what anything really was you have to live it. No one alive today was a slave during the Civil War, pretty damn close to knowing is not knowing. The diaries compiled by the University of Florida are quite limited compared to the Slave Narratives. I seem to remember from history class something about England calling some group traitors, um let me think, oh yes our founding fathers. They invoked the same reasons for revolt against England as the Southern state did. The Rebel flag is not what is wrong with this country, there are many things wrong, these issues however have no place for discussion here. Thank you for respecting my opinion, as I do your's. I happen to think the South had every right to succeed from the Union. I would appreciate it if you would not attack my character. I did not attack your's. Regards Shadowrebel |
Posted: Sun Apr 9th, 2006 02:16 pm |
20th Post |
javal1 Grumpy Geezer
Ulysses - if your comment regarding "time to grow up" was directed towards the pro-flag group as a whole, that's fine. If it was directed towards Shadowrebel, that's personal and not allowed. Shadowrebel - I'm afraid I don't understand much of your logic. First you make a huge point that there are no living ex-slaves, so no one knows what it was like. What's your point? Is it that "maybe it wasn't as bad as everyone says?" Or is it that blacks have no right to speak out against it because it was only their grandmothers and great grandmothers who were in chains and not them? I would remind you that the pitiful state that the black community as a whole finds itself in today has a direct correlation to 400 years of bondage. There's no way it doesn't. Those against the flaunting of the Confederate flag atop state houses are not troublemakers, they are Americans whose ancestors were raped of their rights. They are probably also aware that that flag was in fact being flown to protest the Brown vs. Board of Education decision rather than some noble display of heritage. You also, for some reason, seem to think it's important that slavery was legal prior to the Civil War - under the American flag. Technically true, and that will always be a blot on this country. But if you want to throw that out as some sort of justification, then you should tell the whole story. A few snippets anout the history of the Constitution: "What should be done about the slave trade, the importing of new slaves into the United States? Ten states had already outlawed it. Many delegates heatedly denounced it. But the three states that allowed it--Georgia and the two Carolinas--threatened to leave the convention if the trade were banned. A special committee worked out another compromise: Congress would have the power to ban the slave trade, but not until 1800. The convention voted to extend the date to 1808." Want to guess how many of the ten states that had already banned it were Southern states? So in fact we had slavery because the South demanded it, and threatened to take their toys and go home if they didn't get it. But the Northern states didn't push too hard on slavery issues. Their main goal was to secure a new government. They feared antagonizing the South. Most of them saw slavery as a dying institution with no economic future. They had no way of knowing that in five years the cotton gin would be invented, which would make growing cotton on plantations very profitable. So instead they used slavery as a bargaining chip to win other concessions. So it isn't a question of a "good" side" and a "bad" side, but of a side that demanded bondage of an entire people, and another side which didn't have the guts to fight against what they didn't believe in. One is bad, the other worse. Finally your contention that the Confederate flag being flown in historical settings seems to be a "partial ban". Flying a historical flag in a historical setting is not a ban of any sort. It's the proper setting. The times it was flown elsewhere, it was used as a symbol of racism and bigotry by southerners. I would also add that ceasing to do something that is so offensive to 25-50% of the American population is not political correctness. It's common courtesy. |
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text:
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