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Obama is worried about his legacy.His Presidential library is guaranteed to have only one section:Fiction
Not just the Tea Party. He will have to deal with his own guilt and lies.
His legacy will be the destruction of America.Four years from now we will be living in a dictatorship. I hope all who voted for Obama will be happy then. They are going to get what they wanted. Unfortunately, they are going to take the rest of us along with them.
did he not want 6 more years..I believe he said something about our Constitution not allowing that..but thats not a problem to him...free to be who he is...a moozie...
"Be who he is"??No one knows who he is. See if the MSM can explain who he is. They have done everything they could possibly do not to examine who he is, and, rather, to keep everyone else ignorant even if they did know something.Be who he is. Sure. I'm sure we are about to find out.
Revenge!The attacks on traditional American values is underway, unopposed by any need for decorum or civility. We are about to see what unfettered Marxist zeal looks like up close. Thank you Democrats. You too will feel the wrath and will wonder in the end what you have wrought.
Free to be who he is? Think Robert Mugabe and the former African "breadbasket" of Rhodesia, now known as the African "wasteland" of The Republic of Zimbabwe!
Obama will soon be in Hawaii, at his Western White House. No need for DC until inaugural, then back to Hilo. Will use this as base for tax payer funded golf outings in Thailand, New Zealand, Tahiti and other locations that neither he nor his mother-in-law have seen. Why care about debt limits, unemployment, fiscal cliffs or Benghazi when you can be in Hawaii. Legacy, smegacy. It's Fore! Not Forward from now on.
Does this mean he's free to be a socialist, inexperienced, empty suit, dictating to everyone else who should do what with whom while befriending all our enemies and hating on all our friends?So, like, who was he the first term?
#2, one has to have a conscience in order to let guilt and lies bother them. No, Obama has no conscience. He is like the "Bad Seed."
Obama`s presidential library will be occupied by 10000 copies of the Communist Manifesto. Other than that, there really isn`t anything else to put in it.
We ain't seen nothing yet; see what happens if he gets to one or two appointments for the SCOTUS...the damage will keep on occurring well after his departure. The repercussions are devastating and the only hope is it is so severe we lock up the Senate and House in 2014 with veto proof membership.
He is cold, ...NOT cool.
At least Obama can now truthfully claim to have inherited a mess. Sensible Americans know he will only make it worse. Just about everything Obama touches gets fouled up. This is because he doesn't understand how things work. He thinks he does, but he doesn't. He has a of of things backwards. His solutions are therefore far more likely to harm than to help. He is not alone. Lots of Americans share his illusions and delusions about how the world works, how people actually behave. To some degree this is the consequence of civilization itself, which makes everything seem easy, natural and necessary. Civilization provides a buffer zone and wide limits of tolerance within with errors and contradictions of reality can take place without obvious, immediate consequences and therefore feedback. It becomes difficult to distinguish between reality and virtual reality. Things that would not normally be possible begin to seem possible, as though they were part of the natural order of things rather than artifacts of advanced civilization. People who grow up in this cocoon of man-made reality take it for granted. The minimization of struggle delays emotional maturity and permits a fundamentally imaginary world view to prosper as though it were solidly grounded in reality rather than sustained by the collective effort of advanced society.This, I believe, is what makes people like Barack Obama and his supporters and their fantasy ideology possible. They can no longer reliably distinguish the real from the unreal. They are insulated from corrective feedback of the consequences of their false beliefs and wrong choices. They have no way of knowing when they make a mistake.
I am not answering emails from those who I know voted for The Child, and I will not answer them. I have no use for them and what they have done.
Just as long as he realizes he doesn't look good in polka dots.
Goal of the 2nd term, cause much more destruction that you were able to accomplish the 1st term.America as we knew it is no more, destroyed by Bari Obama and the Demonrat party.
Headline seems right to me.I expect to see his administration proceed with the "Final Solution" to many problems.Guessing. Obama doesn't care much about ideology himself. But he does the personal perks of being President and will keep increasing those.It is his team that contains the true believers and he will be guided by them.
A pre-11/6 "friend" was ecstatic over the election results. She told me it took Obeyme four years to clean up Bush's mess, and we now owe him four more years to do "HIS thing".I would've gone for the jugular, but there were too many witnesses...we were at the Mall.
FTA: President Barack Obama will never again have to face voters.Yeah, well, Constitutionally, he can face voters twice more.435 in the House.100 in the Senate.He's more than earned those "elections."


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So now they will just build more servers to compensate for the growing numbers of digital sales since there will be no more disc's been made.
Welcome to the future.[/QUOTE] If 100% digital with no physical copies and downloading and relying on the internet to be connected to not only download but to play the games is the future...FUCK the future...that is what I say, give me my physical copy and fuck you EA is what I say.
Until BF3 comes to steam like Crysis 2 finally did i wont be buying anything from EA and there shitty Origin software bull crap.
/facepalm at your lack of taste, intelligence, and just...sigh... There is a reason why Origin still says Origin Beta. Think about that for 5 mins, compare what is truly lacking from Origin, then look at how much further along Steam is...add in Gabe comment about how behind Origin is. Then consider how EA has been strongarming Origin into the market...and you might understand a tenth of the hate against Origin. I don't mind using Origin if it is through Steam. But all purchases will be via elsewhere just so Origin won't get a sale.
i no longer hate Origin but it has a long ways to go before i consider it a viable digital platform, They only have a large user base by forcing people to use the platform without their key games being locked to said digital platform they would have nothing, The EULA on their digital content is bs certain things are limited such as if you dont download a particular title after x # of years you need to buy it again, EA did that back with 2142's expansion, and its still present in their EULA today. Bad customer relations 0 sales that are worth a damn Franchise Milking to the extreme and inflated game costs vs Steam mediocre customer support awesome sales and full catelog deals i mean come on $320 in games for $75 simple reinstall procedure i mean hell copy pate the common folder click play install done theres more but in General EA has a long way to go security issues are still a problem or like in brandon's case they cant fix the issue where he cant buy content from them honestly what good is a digital store if people cant use it and said publisher cant fix the problem Ill buy EA games but only when they are bargin bin prices which takes forever Steam wins hands down in the majority of things that matter. Its pretty sad when on a DAILY basis, Origin games tend to be cheaper on Amazon than from EA themselves, if they stopped being douches they would keep more of that money in their own pocket.
I prefer digital distribution. The only downfall is that collector's editions of games will begin to become increasingly rare. Blizzard Store... Steam... Origin... Bring em on I love them.
No, learn how to back shit up. You can back up everything if you know how. but maybe your just lazy and need a program to do it for you. And origin has only been out for like 1 year and it took Steam multiple years to get it where its at. It does have overlay if you pay attention itll flash a thing at you tell you how to turn it on when you start a game, there are good deals if you look at the right time. Overlay for steam messes up some games pretty bad. Really!? I use Steam and Origin to buy and install and play games. If they have the game I want ill buy it and play it i don't care about what program I use. I can't help but laugh at people who bitch about a game and saying they won't get it unless its on Steam.
why it is free online now??the last patch gave everyone the add on`s. finally some one with a brain that has not been STEAM washed,Also some one who changed his mind from last year about it as a program.
Honestly I dont have a problem with Origin(The service) at all, and I also use steam. The Software is what I don't like, afaik it collects information. and also the interface and features is not as good as Steam's. it seems lacking on something
Are you too fancy to use good old copy/paste? The installer is in the games' folder. It's just that simple. And Steam's backup function is crap. I've lost count of how many times I went to restore a backup and it failed. But feel free to blame it on me, I mean, Steam is perfect right? Wrong on all accounts. Try again. The blind hatred and bashing that's allowed here is... well, disgusting.
If 100% digital with no physical copies and downloading and relying on the internet to be connected to not only download but to play the games is the future...FUCK the future...that is what I say, give me my physical copy and fuck you EA is what I say.[/QUOTE] yeah im with you on this one, i like to have my own copies of my own games that i have paid for
Battlefield 2 is not free its 19.99$ http://store.origin.com/store/ea/en_US/DisplayProductDetailsPage/productID.78869400
I use GameStop app(Impulse) because I don't need to launch it to play games installed by it. Don't have many things though, but I've never needed what Steam could give. So it's a matter of what you want from them too. Edit: Have had a few problems with GameStop app though, so it's certainly not perfect.
E A chat more shit then fred durst, ps 3 and the 360 been replacd while ive been away , no and bf 2 is now 20 quid despite some EA twat saying discounted games are bad for business a week ago.
1, 2, 4, 7: All valid concerns, that I'm sure will be addressed in the future. 3. As time goes on more people will have Origin. When I switched to Steam for Counter-Strike 1.6 (when 1.5 shut down) almost nobody wanted to use Steam. They all considered it a huge step back. Yes, these days Steam is amazing, but there was about a 2-3 year stretch where it was absolute garbage. People need to remember Steam took quite some time to mature as well. 5. I don't really see how they are that much different. Granted, Origin's store doesn't have as much categorization up front, but it also isn't as vast. I'd imagine as time goes on they will incorporate more organization when it is actually beneficial to do so. 6. VAC is garbage, and the only people that get VACed are people who literally Google Search " Hacks" and just download the first link. VAC-proof cheats have been around longer than Steam has been public, and it's my understanding that it hasn't gotten any more difficult to bypass over the years.
GJ EA !! Welcome to September 12th 2003, your almost 10 years late to the party. I mean SERIOUSLY, How ambiguous of a statement is this ? "We'll continue to deliver games in whatever media formats make sense and as one ebbs and one starts to flow, we'll go in that direction,", i read it as "Bland press statement #92844425" or "we only change when a competitor forces us to" I hope steam smashes their pitiful little forced content distribution system, AKA origin. Can you tell i don't much like ea ?
right there have been games out there that are digital distribution, but internet services were not good enough to go completely from physical to digital and now a vast majority of peoples internet speeds are now up to par.
For those comparing steam and origin. We must remember that steam has been out for a long time now so they have had time to polish their product to be very good. Sure Origin is no where near as good as steam, not even in the same league. But it hasn't been out for a very long time. I very much prefer steam because of its decent security, very polished and easy to use interface and also all of the backup options, save-game cloud etc I could go on. However I still much prefer buying the hard-copy of a game as I find just a bit more satisfying. Origin is already (imo anyway) much better than when it first came out. As it actually works when you click button 99% of the time now instead of crashing all the time. As long as I can play my games, I'll be happy.
Digital sales are irrelevant. EA already said they are going ahead with 100% digital. What the physical sales can tell us, is that people are still buying them. EA is trying to dismiss those figures, so they can go right to digital.
But you're forgetting the people that don't have the luxury of going 100% digital. People that don't have broadband available where they live. People that don't have high speed broadband where they live. People that have very low monthly download limits. People that don't have a credit card or a bank account to link to PayPal to purchase digital copies.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Rainbows and Triangles Apartments in Manhattan
- bedrooms 1
- baths 1
- sleeps 4
- pool no
- hot tub no
- pets allowed yes
- type Apartment
- community
rates (USD)
/ night
vacation rental description
We are located at 192 Eighth Avenue between 19th and 20th Streets offering great access to transportation and within walking distance to Greenwich Village, Gramercy Park, Midtown and the new fashionable Meat Packing District.
Our apartments are either one or two bedrooms and can accomodate up to they come fully equipped with linens, silverware and dishes, AC, cable TV and free wireless Internet access. They are basic New York apartments and a great value for your money
We accept all major credit cards and we required a one night deposit to be made via Paypal.
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Last modified on 01-7-2011 at 9:17 AM.
email owner view full calendar
Fernan Royo 917-553-7587
activities and attractions in Manhattan New York City
Walk to the new fashionable Meat Packing Disctrict, The Highline, Herald Square, and Greenwich Village
Fernan Royo 917-553-7587
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Learn more in our Security CenterTop things to do in Manhattan
- Times Square
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- 5th Avenue
Fernan Royo , owner


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$400,000 Diamond Champagne Glasses (5 of 14)
Champagne is always considered a fairly luxurious drink (even when it's the cheap stuff) but any champagne, cheap or not, is sure to get a class upgrade when it gets served in one of these two glasses. Valued at $400,000 and blinged out with 1,700 white and pink diamonds the glasses were chiseled out of 8kg blocks of rock quartz crystal and it took 5 jewelers 3 months to put them all together. The set was designed by John Calleija and although they'll be present at the opening of his second store in London they'll eventually be returning to the home of the Melbourne businessman who bought them and plans to turn them into family heirlooms. 10/12/08


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Walk a Mile in Her Shoes at the University of Wisconsin-Sheboygan
04/16/2011 - 10:00am to 1:00pm
Sponsoring Agency:
Safe Harbor's Sexual Assault and PEACE group
Proceeds from the walk will go toward Safe Harbor's Sexual Assault and PEACE group. The cost is $15 per walker, and refreshments and favors will be provided.
This is the second annual event. Last year, 60 walkers, including members of agencies including Safe Harbor, Big Brothers Big Sisters, Sheboygan County Victim Witness and Lakeland College participated, raising $472.
said on 04/12/2011
said on 04/12/2011
posted on 12/12/2013
posted on 12/11/2013
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5 Meetup Groups match "Mechanical Engineering" near Brea, CA
If you are a reader of Make Magazine or a fan of Maker Faire, this group might be for you! Being connected with the OC Mini Maker Faire, our goal is to bring together people who like to make things, anything from robots to cheese. Bring your ideas, questions, and/or projects and work on them or, jump in on someone else's project. Projects are welcome to be exhibited at the OC Mini Maker Faire. There are no age or gender limitations, we welcome all!
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We are getting together to discuss 3D printing and new related technologies. These are social and educational meetups to learn about this technology and it's various applications. This is your opportunity to: See 3D printers in action. Bring your 3D printer or printed objects to show off your latest creations. Learn more about open source software, such as Slic3r settings, Google Sketch-up and Pronterface. Meet other 3D-ers and collaborate on new group projects. Share and learn some little know …
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The Los Angeles MBA Admissions Workshop is a seminar series that introduces attendees to the critical components of the MBA application process. Attendees will leave knowing what they need to do to maximize their changes of getting into the best business school program possible. As MBA deadlines loom this is your chance to nail down your application and approach to your essays. Significant time and focus will be paid to the common MBA essay types. Attendees will learn how to construct impactfu …
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Modern Rap Music
Shelved by: dead-idealism on 2011-12-12
26 Comments:
You never go full retard.
They have smoked themselves retarded.
I tell her, now go and pop that pussy for a real nigga, I already know that life is deep but I still dig her. Niggas is jealous, but really I could care less, I'm in hells kitchen with an apron and a hair net. Devil on my shoulders, the lord is my wittness, So on my lebra scale I'm weighing sins and forgiveness. What goes around comes around like a hula hoop, Karma is a bitch, well just make sure that bitch is beautiful. Life on the edge, I'm dangling my feet, I tried to pay attention but attention paid me. Haters can't see me, nose bleed seats, And today I went shopping, and talk is still cheap. I rock to the beat of my drum set, I've been at the top for a while and I ain't jump yet. ( haha ) but I'm, Ray Charles to the bull shit, Now jump up on that dick and do a full split.
Truth be told, I actually liked that song... and quite a few of his lyrics, really. He's got a better handle of wordplay than most of the guys putting out garbage these days.
Yeah, me too. Lil Wayne isn't (usually, at least) a very politically-inclined rapper like Talib or Guru but I still like him. He's a great writer and an incredible word-smith; there's no denying it.
Regardless, if you don't like his music then it's simple: don't listen to it. I don't see why some people feel the need to spend time talking about all the music they dislike. It's not a contest, you know?
I haven't listened to much Talib, but I love Mos Def. And K'Naan doesn't have that much material yet, but I've liked everything he's done. And since everyone thinks I sell weed anyway, I guess I might as well admit that I like Kid Cudi.
great writer and amazing word smith huh?
that's why one of his lines is
"i'm a venereal disease, like a menstrual bleed"
Hey, just because he was talking about your conception doesn't mean that you have the right to incorrectly judge him for his lyrical ability.
do you know what a venereal disease is?
do you know what a menstrual bleed is?
If not, look them both up...
now you know why it's a retarded ass line. because he's calling a period a disease like AIDS.
It's because everyone else is talking about it, that they feel like they have to make their opinions known. When it's played on the radio 7 times a day people who don't like it have a right to complain, as much as anyone else has a right to defend it.
Okay, fair enough. However, I have two responses to that:
1) If you hear a Lil-Wayne song on the radio you're probably listening to a station that broadcasts a playlist of very similar and predictable artists so you can really only blame yourself.
2) Listening to the radio in and of itself is an entirely different problem. For one thing, most public radio stations only play singles and/or billboard hits (not to mention commercials) so there's no point in listening to it other than if you have no CDs in your collection.
If you have certain tastes in music then hopefully you've bought some artists' work in which case why not listen to it through that medium? The point is most people who bitch about Lil Wayne and whoever are actually just as, if not way more, ignorant than the people who actually like him.
There are places where you don't necessarily have control over the music you're hearing. For example, I used to work at a place where they only played country music, I hate country, so I would, whether i realized it or not, complain sometimes. When other people are blasting their music in public places, people will inevitably voice their opinions on it, especially if it's what's popular.
Well those are completely different situations entirely dude. Yeah, sure, if you're trying to read a book outside and some dickhead drives by blasting Lil Wayne for everyone to hear then you can complain about it.
But honestly, how often does that really happen? And when it does, how long of an inconvenience is it? Aside from when you have to work with shitty radio, which blows, I've never had a problem easily avoiding music I disliked. Yet, somehow, half of the people I went to college with all found it impossible.
What I'm trying to say is that getting mad at people for bitching about music is as bad as people getting mad about the music in the first place. People have different tastes and will always voice their opinions regardless of what other people say. So when people talk about how they think Lilwayne is a twat, it's best to just let them think that and not add more complaining.
Yeah, you're right. I don't associate myself with people who are fake and don't actually know anything about music.
However, I am a frequenter of this website so if someone on here says something I disagree with I'm probably going to respond.
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you that people have a right and a precedent to complain when the radio plays the same song six times an hour. My question is what the fuck is up with the common fixation of listening to the radio instead of owning your own music library? It seems like the whole point of listening to music is lost to a lot of people who cover up their lack of originality and creative taste with bitching and moaning about nothing.
It's kind of like people who complain about math by saying, "When am I ever going to use it?" My response is always, "Exactly, so stop fucking complaining about it."
7 times a day is required minimum for automatic response to kick in: like and defend to the death, also compare to oldschool like its 1995
Well rap is short for CRAP.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're being sarcastic considering that you're a DJ.
rap aint what it used to be. it went from expressing yourself, to bitches and hoes.
Lil Wayne playing guitar. Now that's full retard.
lil wayne..he was born full retard
if u dont like it... make fun of it. "its a free wheel" after all


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Moderated by: javal1 | Page: 1 2 |
Lost Cause | Rate Topic |
Author | Post |
Posted: Sun Dec 3rd, 2006 12:28 am |
1st Post |
Doc C Member
Just wanted to start a dialogue. Would like to know what a lost cause individual is? Is the equivalent "what if"? Thought it would be interesting seeing the responses. Doc C |
Posted: Sun Dec 3rd, 2006 01:38 am |
2nd Post |
ole Member
Good question, Doc. I'll be watching for responses with you. Ole Last edited on Sun Dec 3rd, 2006 01:38 am by ole |
Posted: Mon Dec 4th, 2006 03:20 pm |
3rd Post |
David White Member
Someone who believes the South only lost because they were outmanned, that Lee was nohing short of God on earth and the only reason he didn't suceed is subordinate X, Y or Z failed him at some critical moment. That Jackson's death was the critical blow to the south, that southerners were all good and noble and had the right cause and should have won on their nobility and moral fortitute but somehow didn't despite Grant being a butcher. There are other symptoms of being a lost causer but that's a good start for the discussion. |
Posted: Mon Dec 4th, 2006 03:49 pm |
4th Post |
Widow Member
Hello, David of the large ATM card, Your description of the Lost Cause is the clearest I've ever read. Like Doc, I've been mystified by it ever since I "enlisted" in the Civil War last year. I can understand why the losers consoled themselves that way. They had suffered and lost so much, far more than God should have allowed. They had to rationalize their humiliating defeat somehow. "It wasn't us, it was them. We were the good guys." Same concept as wanting to go down in a blaze of glory rather than compromise a political principle. Longstreet was accused of losing the Battle of Gettysburg singlehandedly. His defense: "I thought the Yankees had something to do with it." It must be hard to give up one's basic beliefs, especially when a hated enemy hammers on everything you hold dear. The Civil War was not just a case of one king raiding another's territory. It was one culture against another, and the winning culture ended up practically obliterating the other side's social structure. I've never been in the South except visits to Miami and a weekend at Chickamauga, so I don't really know what I'm talking about. Moreover, I don't really know what they're talking about. Do people still believe in the Lost Cause? After all this time? Doc, thanks for opening this topic. And Mr. ATM, thanks for starting us off in a good direction. Patty |
Posted: Mon Dec 4th, 2006 06:16 pm |
5th Post |
Doc C Member
Do Lost Causers encompass 2 periods, 1) - individuals who actually participated in the civil war, i.e. Early, while the other 2) 20th/21st century individuals? How do the these 2 groups differ in respect to their interpretation of the outcome, goals, etc.? Food for thought. Widow, never heard aggies called ATM cards. Will have to add that to my list. Also, i'm by no means a lost causer, but would like a further explanation of the term humilating defeat. Doc C |
Posted: Mon Dec 4th, 2006 07:34 pm |
6th Post |
David White Member
I would say there is not much difference between the groups other than group 1 tended to ignore/avoid slavery as a cause of the war and group 2 tends to deny slavery's role in the start of the war, i.e. "it wasn't about slavery, it was about states rights." |
Posted: Mon Dec 4th, 2006 07:40 pm |
7th Post |
Widow Member
Doc, by humiliating defeat, I can illustrate it best this way. Think of a basketball team with the strongest players and finest coaches. They're poor kids, but they've done really well all season, and have good reason to be proud. Besides, their loyal fans expect them to defend the state title. Then a team of rich kids comes along. They have fancy uniforms. fly in a charter jet, but they don't play very well and you think they cheat. The visiting bad team beats the good home team in the championship game. You know you're good, and you're beaten by inferiors. Would you feel humiliated? To top it off, after the Civil War the losers had to take the ironclad oath. Meaning, "I swear never to take up arms against the government. And also that I never supported or particpated in the late rebellion." You had to swear in order to vote and regain other civil rights. If you lied, you could be denounced by your neighbors. Without the right to vote, you had no say in who governed you or how high your taxes would be. That's humiliating for people who had always run the show. Wno had always believed they had the right and duty to run the show because of their natural superiority. Another cause of humiliation was that the freedmen were elevated to an equal social level, were allowed to own land, vote, run for office, testify in court, all the things the whites weren't allowed to do. For people who believed blacks were their social inferiors, that must have been terribly galling. Hey, I'm just parroting what I've read in books. I've never talked to anybody face to face about this most fascinating topic. Aggies? As in Texas A&M? Is that what ATM means? Well, for pete's sake, they put the letters in the wrong order. You'd think they'd have noticed by now. Patty (p.s. I'm not from Texas.) |
Posted: Mon Dec 4th, 2006 07:48 pm |
8th Post |
ole Member
Aggies? As in Texas A&M? Is that what ATM means? Well, for pete's sake, they put the letters in the wrong order. You'd think they'd have noticed by now. Ole |
Posted: Mon Dec 4th, 2006 08:26 pm |
9th Post |
Doc C Member
Patty, what a great analogy. Couldn't have done better if I tried. Indeed, you and Ole don't hail from the great lonestar state. (Not intended to be an insult, neither do I, Louisiana). Yep, that's A&M's logo. Been thinking they've been doing things backwards for quite some time, jk. David, you'd think Ole and Widow are teasips from their responces. On a more serious note, how does the "lost cause" mentality play into the philosophy of today's right wing groups. Do any of these groups have any idea of what their supposed to be espousing ? Do any of them really have a clue to the true events which they seem to be holding so dear, i.e. the "rebel flag",etc.? Have individuals such as this discussion group (myself included) who appear to have a true interest in the facts/truth in the civil war, been negligent in allowing them to raise their voices? Could past conflicts concerning the flying of CSA flags have been avoided if these fringe groups let their voices be heard? Several years ago, I had a discussion with one of friends who happened to be an afro-american ob-gyn in regard to the flying of the confederate flag over his home state capitol of South Carolina. His main objection was it not having been used during the civil war but that it was being used as a symbol for the KKK and other hate groups. Doc C |
Posted: Mon Dec 4th, 2006 11:11 pm |
10th Post |
Widow Member
Doc, I can't address all of the questions you raised. Heck, I'm just a private from Wyoming, what do I know about Lost Causes. I'd like to comment on your questions about other people expressing their opinions. Have individuals such as this discussion group (myself included) who appear to have a true interest in the facts/truth in the civil war, been negligent in allowing them to raise their voices? Could past conflicts concerning the flying of CSA flags have been avoided if these fringe groups let their voices be heard? I wonder if perhaps you were thinking about "negligence" in the sense of failing to reply persuasively to those other voices. In my opinion, no matter how much I disagree with another viewpoint, I have no right to allow or prohibit others from expressing it. Of course, they don't have the right to suppress my view, either. Jefferson said it best, something like "Sir, I disagree completely with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." I'll bet a Yankee greenback that you feel that way too. May I add that I have no monopoly on the truth here. I can't possibly know all the truth, just fragments here and there mixed in with lots of opinions. The Official Reports aren't exactly the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. A conscientious officer could report only what he knew and did, from his angle, and probably didn't know half of what went on elsewhere on the battlefield. And many officers were quite willing to omit certain inconvenient details, or skip doing the research necessary to fill in the blanks. "My regiment withdrew gallantly in perfect order." Meaning we ran like hell. I agree with you, though, that as far as I can tell, the members of this board are interested in the Civil War as history rather than as a political issue to argue about today. Seems to me that those who argue about the CBF should consider we have other more pressing problems to solve in this country. Interesting coincidence, your conversation with the black doctor who objected to the use of the CBF by the hate groups, but not to its use as a state emblem. I had practically the same conversation with a black acquaintance who lives in Alabama; his opinion was the same as the doctor's. I've lived in NoVa for 40 years and have seen lots of bumper stickers, tattoos, license plate frames, and you name it, all with the CBF. I used to be disgusted and contemptuous, what's with these people? Are they still fighting the war? Are they all in the KKK? Then I got interested in the war last year and have learned a lot. So much that I've changed my opinion about the CBF and what it stood for. Now I respect the men who fought under it, just as much as the men who fought under Old Glory. And I no longer associate the CBF with hate groups like the Klan and neo-Nazis. The way I see it, they distorted the meaning of the CBF and debased its treasured value for many people. And that's a shame. I've always liked the design of the CBF with the St. Andrew's cross and the 13 stars, it has an eye-pleasing symmetry. One more comment about certain universities. You know that UVa in Charlottesville claims to be "Mr. Jefferson's university" because he founded it and designed the first buildings. OK, and Virginia Tech is in Blacksburg, some distance away (and I don't mean just in miles). So at UVa they assert, loudly, that "all dirt roads lead to Virginia Tech." By the way, Doc, you live on the Eastern Shore. That's see-cesh country. Different universe from the western panhandle, like Sharpsburg and Hagerstown. Patty |
Posted: Tue Dec 5th, 2006 12:18 am |
11th Post |
Doc C Member
Again, agree wholeheartedly with your comments Patty. The truth/facts are always subject to opinion. Long time ago learned the definition of history is his story. Freedom of speech no matter what the subject matter is the cornerstone of our country and one's opinion is sacred. However, seems that at times society allows "those people" to get by with their hateful dialogue without any reponse. You got it right when you said we have more pressing issues for today than the cbf. Over the years my opinions on the cw have changed dramatically. Growing up in Louisiana thought only the south was brave, strong and right (in their belef of states rights, invasion but not slavery). Remember vividly my grandmothers' description of people from north of the mason-dixon line (initially not a boundary between north and south but a boundary survey circa 1800 between Md, Pa, Del) , as "them yankees". However, with time, hopefully maturity (you could get takers from my wife and kids) and research have learned that both sides had extremely brave individuals who fought for a cause which they were willing to risk their lives for. Also, discovering through my geneology research that I have more ancestors who fought for the union than the csa has also served to change my view. To paraphrase Shelby Foote in a cspan interview, we'll all be better off if the south realizes that it was probably best that the union be preserved and the north that the south fought bravely for a cause they trully beleved in. Yep, the eastern shore surely was see-sech. Home of Franklin Buchanan, Lloyd Tilghman, Charles & John Winder. An interesting story is of Judge Carmichael who was arrested by union troops in Talbot Co. for his southern sympathies. Robert E. Lee had numerous family ties to this area. Also home of many smugglers supplying the western shore. Birthplace of Harriet Tubman and Frederick Douglas. Doc C |
Posted: Tue Dec 5th, 2006 12:21 am |
12th Post |
Doc C Member
Patty Also forgot to mention that life over here on the eastern shore is soooooooo slooooooooooooow compared to that on the other side of the bay. Doc C |
Posted: Tue Dec 5th, 2006 04:03 am |
13th Post |
Widow Member
Doc, our life here in Fairfax County is slow too. The traffic, I mean. You could probably walk to work faster than you could drive. Well, not exactly, but you get the picture. Booth found his conspirators in southern Maryland. And there were plenty who were willing to keep their mouths shut, even if not actively involved in the plot. Thanks again for opening this topic. I hope others will give their opinions and enlighten us who are still groping in the dark. It's helpful to read books, but more fun to chat with people. Patty |
Posted: Tue Dec 5th, 2006 06:17 am |
14th Post |
ole Member
Doc, Widow, Dave: Thanks for getting the discussion moving. I've been cooling my heels. To me, "lost causer" is fightin' words to be applied only to someone who's scholarship is limited to "discovering" snippets of quotes that prove that the north intentionally started to war to subjugate the south so it could continue to grow rich off the planter's sweat. That the Lost Cause was basically a 2-stage movement is mostly correct. It started with Early and his attept to depict Lee as a saint -- therefore, the loss must have been someone else's fault. That just naturally evolved into a festival of excuses usually centering around showing that the South was cruelly victimized. This was accomplished through the likes of Pollard, the organization started by Early to continue spreading the word (I want to say the Southern Historical Society, but I'm sure that's not it.), and several other notables joining the movement. The movement gained quite a bit of scholastic support and continued until the 1920s and 30s with the help of such organizations as the UDC, at which time historians started getting into historical fact as opposed to feeding the children stories. It is alive and well, although more and more posters are showing up looking for historical fact -- probably coinciding with the immense amount of information made accessible via this infernal machine. You can immediately identify the "Lost Causer" by his or her insistence that the peculiar institution had nothing to do with the late unpleasantness -- it was the tariffs, or state rights, or New England slave ships. Ole |
Posted: Tue Dec 5th, 2006 06:27 am |
15th Post |
ole Member
On another note: I've never run across a lost causer who makes any connection of the CBF or the Lost Cause with the hate groups. I've suspected it occasionally, but it's very difficult to say it outloud civilly. Ole |
Posted: Tue Dec 5th, 2006 07:25 am |
16th Post |
susansweet Member
Patty such a great posting. I agree with most of what you wrote. I have changed my attitude toward the CBF as I learn more about the Civil War. Also as I learn about my family . One side as I have said before supported the South, the other side the North. I respect and honor both sets of ancestors. A friend and I were discussing some of these issues tonight over the phone. I was telling her that one of the activities that the UDC ask of their members is to show the flag . I have joined both the UDC and the Union Daughters. I was saying to her I might hang a bonnie blue flag or The first Confederate flag along with the American Flag at my house but I don't know if I could fly the Battle Flag. The reason being I would not be able to individually explain to people what it meant . I am in Southern California . So far I have not hung any flags. It was interesting at a conference I attended last month at the Huntington Library one of the presenters discussed the Lost Cause in most of the movies made about the Civil War starting with Birth of a Nation all the way to Gettysburg and Gods and Generals. I especially liked what you said about not our right to decide who can and can't express an opinion that disagrees with our own. That has been my motto most of my life. You have a right to your opinion and I have a right to mine. But that doesn't stop us from being friends. Amazes me when others disagree with that. Oh well that is their right. Oh dear I think I am rambling . I hope some of this made sense. On another note since you are from the West even with 40 years in Virginia Ed Bearss spoke at the other conference I went to recently. He said He is neither a Southerner or a Yankee . He is a Westerner. He was born in Montana. I think that is true those of us from the West are neither one or the other we are the third option A Westerner. Susan |
Posted: Thu Dec 7th, 2006 08:21 pm |
17th Post |
TimHoffman01 Member
I really liked reading through this one. Until recently, I was the only member of my family born below the M-D Line, which made for some interesting dinner conversations. I'd like to add my own personal two cents in if I can. I'd always classified a Lost-Causer as one who believed firmly that Slavery had Nothing to do with the Civil War. To go a little farther on this single point, I also think this attitude has developed, whether initially I don't know, but in the "modern" context largly in reaction to a common Northern view that the Civil War was ONLY about Slavery. From my own readings of the history of the time, I came away feeling that there was a cascade of issues, none of which by themselves would have precipitated a major conflict, but taken together did. Slavery seemed to me to be the "last straw" or "Line in the Sand" to steal a phrase from Pres. Bush the Elder. Various economic developments had conspired to make it the cornerstone of the Southern economy, so it became the trigger. The Lost-Causers I have run up against normally ignore the trigger, but hit a ton of (but usually not all) the irritants...or come up with a few of their own. I went to school up in the North (I could pass as a Pennsylvanian then) and a lot of my friends had grown up learning all about Slavery as the sole cause of the war and were genuinely surprised to find out that a LOT of things were argued about before the shindig got going in '61. About the flags, personally, I wouldn't fly the Battle Flag. It is not that I in any way associate it with the hate groups, or need to explain it to people. IT is simply that to fly it along side "Old Glory" would be inappropriate. It was a military flag, not a political flag. The BB or any of the nationals would be better suited there. Besides, it depends on where you are which one you would have seen. Here in the Richmond (Va) area, I see a lot of Army of Tennessee pattern or Naval Jack flags. Only in the museums or at a renactment do I usually see the ANV Patter flag. I find that somewhat humerous. I take that normally to mean that people really don't know what they are doing. |
Posted: Thu Dec 7th, 2006 10:25 pm |
18th Post |
Widow Member
Doc, what in the heck is a teasip? Is it an insult or a compliment? double chin-grin ---> ((: Patty |
Posted: Thu Dec 7th, 2006 11:22 pm |
19th Post |
Doc C Member
No insult intended. A teasip signifies one's colegient alliance, i.e. a University of Texas individual. Teasip comes from the hook'em horns sign, use your imagination. Teasip is a term commonly used by the atm's, you alluded to in an earlier post, to describe people from UT. I'm doubly blessed or cursed, come from a atm card family and married to a teasip. Sports-wise, detest both schools, went to Baylor (Jerusalem on the Brazoos/Vanderbilt of the Big 12). For a great story ask David how UT's mascot, BEVO, got its name. Doc C |
Posted: Thu Dec 7th, 2006 11:29 pm |
20th Post |
Doc C Member
Forgot to mention, UT and ATM individuals have a rather heated rivalry. In fact, in ATM's fight song they mention sawing off the longhorns horns. Almost make you think of the north vs south. Doc |
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Civil War Interactive Discussion Board > Civil War Talk > General Civil War Talk > Lost Cause | Top |


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Your 2010 Pammy Awards: Week 5 (With Updated Standings)
Thanks to everybody who voted and submitted announcer comments this past weekend. Chris Spielman wants to run away with this thing, but Pam Ward won't go down without a fight. She's here this week to remind everybody just why these awards are named after her...
The Top 11 from Week 5 as voted on by you the readers:
11. "They're going to the chapel man. They're gonna get married" --Chris Spielman after a Ben Chappell highlight (via CK29)
10. "Playing the secondary is a lot like marriage. Without communication it'll never work." -- Chris Spielman (via Sctvman & Mike)
9. "I'll take this kid Ellington home with me." -- Bob Griese (via Sctvman)
8. "From 2002-2008 he (Mark Richt) won over 10 wins a game." -- Kirk Herbstreit (via Sctvman)
7. "Why, you would think that is Dick Vitale at Duke!" - Brent Musburger as they show the Oregon fans lifting the Duck over their heads in the stands. (via JFein)
6. "This offensive line gives up more pancakes than Aunt Jemima." -- Craig James (via Sctvman)
5. "Indiana, which has not beaten Michigan since 1987, battling toe for toe." -- Pam Ward (via Rick James Bible Owner)
4. "Do you believe in miracles!?" -- Steve Beurlein after Vols scored to take the lead. (via Mal)
3. "Miami has always been one of the most penalized teams, not only in the nation, but in the conference." -- Bob Griese (via Sctvman)
2. "He didn't have enough yeast to rise up and make that catch." -- Joe Tessitore (via TFred)
1. "Ben Chappell leads the Big 10 in passing. Up next, they take on the undefeated Hoosiers." -- Pam Ward (via Sctvman)
Standings after 5 Weeks
1. Chris Spielman (15)
2. Brent Musburger, Mark Jones & Rece Davis (9)
5. Craig James (8)
Others receiving votes: Bob Griese (7), Pam Ward (5), Mike Patrick (5), Dave Pasch (4), Chris Martin (4), Kelly Stouffer (4), Joe Beninati (4), Brad Nessler (4), Beth Mowins (4), Lou Holtz (4), Kirk Herbstreit (3), Bob Davie (3), Dave Weekley (3), Joe Tessitore (2), Mushin Muhammad (2), Gary Danielson (2), Dave Lapham (2), Dave Popkin (2), Jeremy Bloom (2), Lee Corso (2), Andre Ware (2), Eric Collins (1), Charles Neal (1), Brock Huard (1), Matt Millen (1), Ron Franklin (1), Shaun King (1), Trent Dilfer (1), Tom Hammond (1), Rob Stone (1), Tom Glasgow (1), Brian Griese (1), Tompkins (1), Roger Twibel (1), Holly Rowe (1), Dave Lamont (1), Mike Leach (1) Picabo Street (1) Glen Mason (1), Mike Hill (1), Verne Lundquist (1), Steve Beurlein (1)
*From now on we'll only be including those that received Pam Ward Award votes, not every single nomination, in the standings.


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JVC, Kenwood officially hook up
Victor and Kenwood said Monday that they plan to become one company by October 1 this year.
The two Japanese audio equipment makers will combine to form JVC Kenwood Holdings, which will be based in Yokohama, near Tokyo. Victor, a subsidiary of electronics giant Matsushita, is best known for its JVC brand. Under the agreement, Kenwood Chairman Haruho Kawahara will become the holding company's chairman, while Victor President Kunihiko Sato will become the new company's president.
It came in fits and starts, but the two have finally settled on a merger agreement. It was first discussed last year, … Read more


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Hyperion Records
String Quartet No 7
Robert Simpson (1921-1997)
Simpson: String Quartets Nos 7 & 8
Delmé Quartet
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Movement 1: Tranquillo
Delmé Quartet
Track 1
Movement 2: Vivace
Delmé Quartet
Track 2
Movement 3: Tempo primo
Delmé Quartet
Track 3
String Quartet No 7
String Quartet No 7 was written in 1977 at the request of Lady Jeans (Susi Jeans, the organist), and it is dedicated to her. The work was completed quickly and was first played by the Gabrieli String Quartet at a concert in Lady Jeans home, Cleveland Lodge, Dorking, during a concert celebrating the centenary of her husband. The composer, himself a keen astronomer and a Fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society, draws parallels between the music of this work and aspects of the universequiet and mysterious and yet pulsating with energy. There is only one movement, which falls into three distinct sections, slowfastslow. At the beginning of the work the first violin introduces a stationary line on the note D which is crossed by an upward moving one: from this material all the remainder of the piece grows quite logically. At first the vastnesses of space are invoked: progress is occasionally held in check by the sustained bottom note of the celloa readily identifiable and memorable sound of which Robert Simpson is very fond. Indeed, the various open strings of all four instruments, tuned in fifths, play an important role in the quartet and provide a force which one might compare to gravitation, controlling the movement of the stars in space. The music may seem to move slowly in various directions but it always remains under this tonal-gravitational control; this circle of fifths has different effects according to the way we seem to be facing. The energy of the universe is suggested in the central fast section which contains a tremendous climax of an intensity rare in string quartet literature. The slow music returns to end the work as it began, with the note D, contemplating immensities.
from notes by Lionel Pike © 1984
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Tempo primo
Delmé Quartet
Galina Solodchin (violin)
Jeremy Williams (violin)
John Underwood (viola)
Stephen Orton (cello)
Recording date
10 November 1983
Recording venue
Rosslyn Hill Unitarian Chapel, Hampstead, London, United Kingdom
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Robert Simpson
Recording engineer
Antony Howell
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Simpson: String Quartets Nos 7 & 8 (CDA66117)
Disc 1 Track 3
Release date: August 1989
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