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Trying to get info out before I go to jail.
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Topic: Trying to get info out before I go to jail. (Read 6485 times)
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Global Moderator
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Trying to get info out before I go to jail.
December 20, 2007, 10:37:27 PM »
Trying to get info out before I go to jail.
Posted by: "Robert Roy"
Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:57 pm (PST)
My apologies to those not interested. I could not pass up an
opportunity to perhaps get this information to as many people as I
My window is very small.
I have stood up for the truth and what is right in the corrupt,
incompetent and biased system of family court for about 4 years, and
been pummeled for it, losing everything.
What a mad mom and immoral and unethical attorney can do to a Pro Se
father and the children is unbelievable.
I have had enough, and will not let my child suffer the loss of his
father any longer. I just can't.
I recently worked enough to gather the money to file 5 civil cases in
Hillsborough Superior Court, Northern District, in Manchester, NH.
They are:
07-C-0732 This is the DCYF & Karen York one.
The clear and plain evidence is attached to each Writ already.
DCYF covered up the abuse of my child and attacked me personally
outside their report. Their own report and the letter outside the
report clearly expose their crimes. Both are attached to the Writ.
I have also quit my job and informed the court that I will no longer
play the pretend. I informed the court that the only question to be
resolved is that either they are all heroes for protecting a child
from a bad dad or they are all child abusers for depriving a child of
a good and loving parent that the child needs, and I demand that
question answered!
For the record, the only thing I have ever been accused of as a
father was that I was very close to and had a very good relationship
with my children and that I was a disneyland dad, they love me
dearly. Nobody has ever said anything nor has anything ever been
submitted that I was or even might be a bad dad.
My son was born March 17th, 2000, was a daddy's boy that his mother
wanted little to do with until the separation, and my poor son has
not seen me, I am allowed absolutely no contact, since May, Mother's
day to be exact, 2006.
So I am waiting for a show cause hearing to be scheduled for my non
compliance of paying child support, refuse to work, and will wait for
the civil cases while sitting in jail soon.
I have no choice. My child needs me sooner rather than later.
The DCYF report can be found here:
The letter outside the file can be found here:
My psychological evaluation that I still can't get into court can be
found here:
DCYF had this report as well as contact info for the doctor as seen
in the report.
The DCYF & Karen York Writ info may be found here:
All other information can be found at my web site, where I post
everything I can until I go off to jail.
Please look at the info and inform folks, especially the media please
about DCYF covering up the abuse of my child, as I will soon be in
jail on orders of Judge Pam Albee out of Carroll County Family Court
Division in Conway, NH.
I have to do what I have to do. For my children. For all the
For the truth!
Please help my son if you can.
Thank you.
My sincerest best thoughts and good energy for health, happiness and
harmony to everyone and theirs reading this.
Robert Roy
Homeless, jobless, no license, no transportation, trying to get my
children back their father and fix this mess the only way I know how
at this point.
By refusing to play along with the pretend any longer.
Global Moderator
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Re: Trying to get info out before I go to jail.
Reply #1 on:
December 20, 2007, 10:38:08 PM »
Re: Trying to get info out before I go to jail.
Posted by: "
Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:46 pm (PST)
Okay, I went to jail because I did not comply and there are least
restrictive methods to have you comply. You should answer and the complaint and file a
counterclaim. I did not. I should have but became overwhelmed at battling
Tennessee who then gave the ball to Georgia to violate my due process
rights.They both Have. Never horse trade with the attorney without an attorney present
they will do this before your contempt hearing. They tried to force me into a
deal and I did not take it and as a result I was jailed. Remember, to
request a court reporter as they will have the hearing without one. Court of No
record.(unconstitutional). I wouldn't suggest going to jail and quitting your
job, Keep the job as this will be a way of going after them for lost wages and
creating a hardship. I could have lost my job for being jailed but
didnt(Lucky). Pay the minimal you can pay but keep working on you lawsuits and
developing evidence.I will be doing this as well just to keep them at bay.It looks
like you have done a lot more than me so keep it up. The minute it starts to
cost them money they will open their eyes alittle.They will make you swear an
oath and the most important part is to have witnessess. The more the better to
file a complaint against the judge that violates your constituional rights. I
exercised mine in that court and the judge made a mockery of it. Luckily my
father was there to witness and hear me. Sui Juris,A free man. Sovereign,
Constitutonal rights intact and I'am exercising my constituional rights in these
matters. The United States Supreme court has found the the threat and
enactment of legal process to compel employment,ie imputing income,is involuntary
servitude prohibited by the thirteenth Amendmet, Clyatt vs. United States
(1905) 197 U.S. 205,25 S. ct. 429;United States vs. Kozminsky (1988) 487 U.S.
931,108 S.ct. 2751. It's all about due process and the States violate this
process everyday. Keep up the fight. I may not be able to help myself financially
right now,but I can try to help you through my experience and research.
5,000 extortion paid by my family without a jury trial or I 'd still be sitting
in that concrete jungle called jail. Fathers4justice My prayers are with you,.
Should you go to jail make sure that you sign any document that they force
upon you with this statement, Under duress and Undue influence. I was told I
had to take a Tuberculin shot and sign the medical questionnaire the nurse
will impose on you as you are stripped of your freedom and diginity.
Global Moderator
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Re: Trying to get info out before I go to jail.
Reply #2 on:
December 20, 2007, 10:38:41 PM »
Re: Trying to get info out before I go to jail.
Posted by: "John Meyer"
Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:49 pm (PST)
I write this as I look over yet another list of men being slandered,
demonized and degraded by the media for failing to meet an arbitrary
standard known as financial child support. I think a lot of us can
empathize with not wanting to play Daddy Morebucks to the system that is
draining us bit by bit, but that's a choice each and every one of us has
to make on our own. Me, I'm still relatively young, and if I believe
that I can compile enough information and have enough so that somewhere
down the road a young father is able to use it to get himself out of a
hopeless situation made worse by the system that wants him to be in the
dark, I've done my job, so I'll still work and fight.
And if you want an example look at John Mutari who has found the courage
to fight and yet not let the enemy drag him down as a human being.
Hero Member
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Posts: 735
Convince Sen. Clinton, help us Jan 15th in Syracuse!
Reply #3 on:
January 08, 2008, 12:23:37 AM »
Convince Sen. Clinton, help us Jan 15th in Syracuse!
on behalf of John Murtari (
Sent: Sat 1/05/08 6:09 PM
Good People & People of Faith,
A brief message on resumption of efforts to convince Sen. Hillary
Clinton to meet with us and hear how our families were destroyed by
the 'system'. With the Presidential campaign in full swing, this is
our time to demonstrate what an important issue Family Law reform is.
Jailed in Syracuse, January 15, Martin Luther King's Birthday
Tuesday, January 15th, is Martin Luther King's birthday. I can't
think of a better day for a loving parent to risk peaceful arrest and
be jailed for recognition of our GREAT Civil Right to be presumed
FIT & EQUAL parents.
Parents arrested with no bull-horn, no animosity, and no anger toward
our brothers & sisters (which include the other parent, judges,
lawyers, social workers, etc.), but always first to say I'm doing this
because........ my most precious right to love my child is being
violated! (The exclamation point being made not by frothing at the
mouth, but by voluntarily surrendering personal freedom.) The great
power of what Martin Luther King and Mahatma Gandhi called NonViolent
A Powerful Message
Parents not only making a statement about reform, but also sending a
message to the world that social change and justice can be promoted
without violence toward others. A lesson that Faith, Love, and
Personal Sacrifice are even more powerful -- truly commemorating
another birthday that we remembered on December 25th.
Imagine the tremendous publicity we'd receive if even 3-5 parents were
arrested outside Sen. Clinton's offices in Syracuse. I believe it
would convince her to meet face-to-face with us,
-- a public meeting that
would certainly open the doors to other public officials.
Let's turn around in our thinking, stop ranting and raving about how
'they' are ignoring our GREAT Civil Right to raise and nurture our own
children. Let's look in the mirror and realize how much we fall short
in our 'actions'. GREAT rights are defined by the sacrifice made by
those who started to believe in them. That's 'us'.
Many of us have responsibility for other children who need our care --
but there are many who do not. Parents who have been stripped of
their children and now just get by in an almost meaningless existence,
sometimes full of things, but no family?
You want 'me' to risk arrest in an effort that might not matter, but
could cost me the little I've managed to hold on to? Yes.
Ready to Go!
There will be more details coming before the 15th. I will certainly be
there and hopefully will have a crowd of not only well wishers, but
also participants.
I just finished a great Christmas Vacation with my 14 year old son.
Eight whole days together! We had a great time. I'm so thankful and
eager to 'give back' in a sense of appreciation for what I had (and so
many parents and children were denied by the system over the holiday).
I try to answer everyone who sends me a message. It takes a lot of
time! Before sending, please review all the links above -- they should
answer most of your questions. No need to remind me this might be a
'useless and bad idea, a wasted effort'. I already know that and you
may be right in some ways -- but that is what makes it sacrifice. The
results are not a sure thing at all.
Observers are welcome, if you are interested in being a participant,
taking chalk and writing "I LOVE YOU" to your kids, and "SEN. CLINTON
HELP US" -- what's the worst that could happen? You could get a
Federal Criminal record, a large fine, and 60 days in jail. I don't
think it's likely, but if you are not ready for that -- please help in
other ways.
If you think you are ready please email me, John Murtari, at
, give me a phone number and a good time to
Best regards!
P.S. Got a lot of interesting FEEDBACK on Britney Spears, that will be
coming soon. What are our goals? What is our right?
John Murtari
Coordinator AKidsRight.Org
"A Kid's Right to BOTH parents"
Toll Free (877) 635-1968(x-211)
A Kid's Right to Both Parents!
Newsletter mailing list
subscribe/unsubscribe info below:
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Reply #4 on:
January 10, 2008, 02:40:49 PM »
Jan 15th Clinton Event/ Reform Goals/ Your FEEDBACK on Britney
on behalf of John Murtari (
Sent: Thu 1/10/08 9:33 AM
Good People & People of Faith, This message has info on: 1. Plans for Jan 15th Event - make Clinton accountable.2. Do we share a reform goal - probably not?3. You FEEDBACK - Sorry Brit, your not Fit? 1. Plans for Jan 15th Event - make Clinton accountable.------------------------------------------------------Our last message described plans for a NonViolent Action outside theoffices of Sen. Hillary Clinton at the Syracuse Federal Building,http://www.AKidsRight.Org/archive/archive2008/0000.html The website now has a more detailed schedule for the event,http://www.AKidsRight.Org/clinton So far we've had three mothers express interest in being arrested withme, for using kid's chalk to write "I LOVE YOU" to their kids and "SENCLINTON HELP US" on the ground outside the building. No fathers havevolunteered so far. I hope some men will come forward soon. You are invited to come, to observe and act as public supporters forthe efforts of these people. We hope to have the media their watchingas loving parents, perhaps the "Syracuse 5", get arrested for daringto write "I LOVE YOU" to their kids and get the Senator's attention. One Mom does live in Minnesota and really needs help in covering theexpenses to get here. She plans on driving and that is a long way anda lot of gas! If you can help her, or live in that part of the countryand are also interested in coming, please contact her directly. Angelina Ottinger,
, she also has a web site thatdescribes how she lost both her children to "Child ProtectiveServices".
2. Do we share a reform goal - probably not?--------------------------------------------[ Sorry, this is ran a little long, but it represents a good dialogand your thoughts are welcome. ] Many people complain about the lack of unity within 'our' movement.Maybe it is not so hard to understand. We're united in 'anger' aboutwhat we DON'T LIKE about the present system. We're not at all unitedtowards a positive reform goal - and it shows. I spoke with another Mom who wanted to attend the Jan 15th event andrisk arrest. She was really active and genuinely sincere in workingfor EQUAL parenting. But ...... I make it a point to ask everypotential participant, "This is an event for parents who share the simple goal of theAKidsRight.Org group (
), thatwe are FIT & EQUAL parents unless convicted in a criminal court ofbeing found a demonstrated serious threat to the safety of our kidswhile acting with malintent toward them. Being found guiltyrequires a unanimous 12 person verdict. It's possible a reporter will ask about your child, the otherparent, and if you would be EQUAL with them. How will you answer?" This was a tough one for her. Her husband has a daughter from aprevious marriage and he was caught in the usual custody struggleswith the other parent. I was told the daughter's mom and step-dadwere probably into drugs and had illegal drugs in the house. She toldme her husband was going for FULL custody of his daughter to get herout of that environment. She agreed with his decision and said thelittle girl was just happier with him and always became sad when goingback to her mother. A gut-wrenching experience many of us know. Iasked her, "Has the child ever been actually abused? Do you believe hermother or step-dad are trying to hurt her?" She told me no. She thought the daughter did love her mom, but it wasjust a bad environment. It certainly wasn't what was best for thechild.... We found we had a real difference, as I think many of you may find asyou read this. I think the reaction I saw to the events in BritneySpear's life (Your FEEDBACK) make that even more clear. I asked thismother what is the standard before government can interfere in yourfamily life? I didn't get an answer. She needed to think about, weall should. I know how I feel,
I think there's a sound justification for the following: Our GREAT Civil Rights represent freedoms we have, our liberty asindividuals to live our lives as our conscience dictates. Awareof the needs of the community, but not a slave to it. Withoutfreedom, there is no virtue. We are free to live our lives as well or poorly as we see fit. Tomake poor decisions and suffer because of them and causeunavoidable pain to those around us. It DOES NOT make ourdecisions correct or right, but we are free to make them. Our relationship with our children is a source of our greatestmoral obligations. An opportunity for us to also grow with ourchildren over time (how many of us as parents have been affecteddeeply by our children). We may make very poor decisions for usand our children for a while (and sometimes a long while), but infreedom we have the chance to grow and to change and to love. It is difficult, but those very poor parents who may abuse drugs,alcohol should still be protected from government 'orders'. Why? If they are doing something illegal, shouldn't they be arrestedand jailed for those offenses. While jailed, there kids would becared for by the other parent/family. When released, they areparents again. What would you do instead? If any parent is a smoker, we should take their kid's awaybecause without a doubt, it may cause cancer in them.... If you speed or run a red light with your kids in the car,we take them away, they could have been killed.... If you are convicted of stealing or white collar crime, you are a serious bad moral example, we take them away.... We only want to do what is best... As a community we should 'offer' help when there is a troubledfamily, not force it. Why? Because in 99.99% of the 'mighthappens', nothing deadly ever does happen. But in every casewhere an 'order' separates a parent/child, serious damage andabuse occurs by definition every time. When can it be justified? Only when we have BAD parents, those very rare among us who areactually trying to hurt their children with malintent. In thesecases, and no others, the parent is using their exercise of freedom todestroy their child -- there can be no growth, no change in therelationship, no love. Ultimately, many of us find problems with parents exercising that much'freedom'. Many of us may be closer to the present 'system' than werealize, after all, it's designed purpose is to allow the government(an extension of the community) to 'do what's best' for YOUR kids. 3. You FEEDBACK - Sorry Brit, your not Fit?-------------------------------------------Can you believe that quip above, "Sorry Brit, your not Fit?". Can youbelieve it was used in a message thread about Britney Spears in one ofthe Yahoo Groups. A Yahoo Group made up of parents who havethemselves been blocked from the freedom to see their children? We recently ran a message asking why more parent's groups haven't ralliedto help Britney in her own public battle with the system:http://www.akidsright.org/archive/archive2007/0049.html Your FEEDBACK is below, and again I think it helps us learn we stillhave a ways to go as far as agreeing to a common goal for reform. Iencourage everyone to read the very last message from Canadian JeremySwanson -- some very sound thoughts.... In the FEEDBACK it appears you're not a 'fit parent' if one or more ofthese apply: * You don't always where underwear.* You have used an illegal drug.* Run a stop sign with children in the car.* Fail to appear for a Court deposition regarding your kids.* REALLY BAD ONE - When a body guard for the other parent shows up totake your children after your ordered 'visitation time' is done, get emotional, don't want to do it, and lock yourself in your room with the kids for a while. You were not under the influence ofdrugs or alcohol at the time, just emotional. If you do this one, you don't even have to have another Court appearance because the 'Judge' can just assign sole custody to the other parent... I don't know about you, but I know I have had to give my son up (ashe was crying and wrapped around my neck) to strangers at the end ofour assigned 'visit' and there were times I was very, very close tosaying no and keeping him with me..... A lot of you thought this was plenty of justification to take the kids.I couldn't help but ask, "if these things are so bad, why hasn't shedone any jail time? Isn't that how we punish people?" Or is there ahigher unwritten code government can now enforce (when it wants)against parents? --- David Hamu <
> At Arizona Father's Rights, we have been watching the Britney Spears fiasco> with some amusement and some sense of poetic justice. I think that you are> right, from the standpoint of the abuse of process and the abuse of our> constitutional rights, the courts are doing to Britney what they do to> hundreds of fathers around the country on a daily basis. > However, from the standpoint of poetic justice, we see the poetic justice> when a mother is dealt the same injustices that we have been exposed to. --- Don Mathis <
> > You wrote, One 'mantra' of our group, that goes along with our goal> is: "Good, Average, and Poor parents are all FIT & EQUAL parents!" > Is that the mantra for AKidsRight.org ? If so, it's not enough to> un-subscribe but please do not list me as a member. A poor parent> seeks to avoid responsibility for his or her child - or else abuses> them. A poor parent is not fit. A poor parent should not have equal> rights as a fit and loving parent. imho. > As far a Britney, > Sorry Brit, you're not fit. [ Shortened Version - Ed. ] > If the judge wants you to take a urine test, > and you don't, you should face arrest. > The law says to seat-belt your kiddies, > if you don't, you expose them to injuries. > Putting the kids at risk of harm> is evidence enough you're not a good mom. The slogan just reflects that at moments in time we have all beengood, average, or poor parents -- and probably had those types ofparents ourselves. The 'bad' parent is an unfit parent, for they seekto destroy their child and there can be no other moments in time, nogrowth or change. The 'bad' parent is unfit. Your opinions I feel are shared by a majority of people. I wouldfirst think we need understand what our goals are for reform. Also,if there is such as thing as a 'right to family', where does it comefrom, how strong and deserving of protection is it? Obviously, I think you know how I define our goal and what thestandards of proof are,
-- butplease also check these two links about what defines our right tofamily.
I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on those items, and thenhow you would apply them to Britney below. > After reading your essay at>
, I wish to> redefine my opinion of Britney - from poor to bad. Yes, every parent> is poor at times - as Alec Baldwin exemplifies. But when Brit was> photographed with no seat-belt on her kid, I don't need a> conviction. If you insist on other examples, consider her booking> for hit-and-run and driving w/o a license.>
> Thanks for your reply but imho, Brit is Unfit. --- Chris <
> > Being as we are looking out for what is in the best interest of our> children and not wanting parents to be needlessly separated from our> kids, I have to take you to task on the Britney Spears issue. > While the biggest difference from Britney and any custodial parent> is the attention of the poparozzi, she has very clearly demonstrated> her contempt, not only for her children and their father, but for> the law as well. > Every action she has taken has either been as a smokescreen to make> the courts think that she has been cleaning up her act or has been a> blatant disregard for both the court's orders and the safety and> wellbeing of her own child. > The actions taken against her have been justified by her own> actions. She torpedoed herself. She has intentionally disobeyed> court orders, committed dui's with the children in her car with her,> driven recklessly with her kid in the car and driven with her kid> in her lap (both illegal and dangerous for the child). > All in the presence of the popparazzi...50 cameras, all taking> pictures every step of the way. > If any parent is deserving of the wrath of the courts, it has been> her. > We cannot go defending parents who blatantly and flagrantly flout> their responsibilities just because they are NCP's. And> particularly when they are celebs and do it. > It's bad enough when a custodial parent violates the court orders,> but when one of us does so, particularly when they are a celebrity,> that makes things even worse. More so when when we defend their> blatantly illegal and immoral actions. > For Britney Spears being an NCP does not justify her actions. She> screwed herself and should suffer the consequences. There are> plenty of divorced celebs out there that are keeping their kids safe> and following the courts orders. Both custodial and non-custodial,> so there is no excuse for Britney. She has demonstrated that she is> irresponsible both as an adult and as a parent. > We should not be irresponsible by defending her until she in fact> cleans up her act. If she ever does. Thanks for taking the time to write a thoughtful message on this andI'm interested in discussing this with you. I think we can all learnfrom it. Your opinions I feel are shared by a majority of people. Iwould first think we need understand what our goals are for reform.Also, if there is such as thing as a 'right to family', where does itcome from, how strong and deserving of protection is it? > NO REPLY. --- Joseph Toman <
> > What you got with Britney is a child who became a star with no> parental role models or help. Now thrown into the PUBLIC that> judges her and a legal system that is only out for part of her big> bucks. If I were her I would drink and abuse drugs too. > People in general are "no damn good" and the "masses are asses"! > I can only pray she finds a way out of the hell she is in. While> others of course will condemn and burn her at the stake. > Nothing ever changes. People for the most part are idiots. IF you> have a birth certificate you are a HUMAN RESOURSE hypothicated to> the National debt. YOU have no voice as you are a citizen slave of> the master who you adore with your bank accounts and bank cards and> bank loans. YOU are the tail they are the head and they as the head> can say and do whatever they want with you because you OWE THEM. No> one seems to get that fact. We have a government that does not> represent US but represents the corporate beast. Plain and simple.> Just ask one of them for help and they will say "go find a lawyer"> "I can't help you"!!! > I think you have a fairly good take on all of this. And I> personally thank you for that. Common sense is not common any more. Wow. I think you have hit some points there and that is how we treateach other. I'm glad you said 'in general'! We are idiots 'sometimes'-- the question of how much and when is a tough one. --- Jeremy Swanson <
> [ This was a good one from Canada. Unfortunately, I wish the number ofgroups protecting Britney's due process rights could have beengreater. ] Life, Sports and Other Pursuits By Kathy Rumleski Men's rights groups sympathetic to SpearsPosted: 2007-10-04 16:45:17
Father's Rights groups could have praised the judicial decision whichawarded Kevin Federline custody of his children over BritneySpears. Instead they respectfully asserted that children sufferwhenever they can't see a parent, whether it is a mom or dad. "We make it clear that we support equal parenting and that childrenbelong in the custody of their mother and their father. What hashappened in the Britney Spears case is all very tragic and unfortunate- for the children," wrote Canadian father and activist JeremySwanson. "As casual observers and like most parents we don't care much for themother and her social difficulties as she is but we recognize that herchildren love their mom and they need her. Just as they need theirdad. It would have been easy to say, finally we won one. Instead fatherstook the high road and said nobody wins in these awful battles. Swanson deserves credit for his statements. After years of heartbreak,he knows how Spears must be feeling and he reached out instead ofattacked. What would you say to Spears, Federline or Swanson if you had thechance? -- John Murtari______________________
"A Kid's Right to BOTH parents"Toll Free (877) 635-1968(x-211)
=======================================http://www.AKidsRight.Org/ A Kid's Right to Both Parents!------Newsletter mailing
subscribe/unsubscribe info below:http://kids-right.org/mailman/listinfo/newsletter
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MLK Birthday: Murtari peacefully arrested outside Clinton offices
Reply #5 on:
January 15, 2008, 08:32:52 PM »
MLK Birthday: Murtari peacefully arrested outside Clinton offices
on behalf of John Murtari (
Sent: Tue 1/15/08 1:18 PM
Good People & People of Faith,
John Murtari returned to the Syracuse Federal Building with a petition
containing pictures of parents and children unjustly separated. He
was also carrying kid's chalk and planned to write "I LOVE YOU" to his
son and "SEN CLINTON HELP US" on the ground outside the building. He
was taken into custody by building security.
A press release was also sent out and you are free to redistribute:
We will release more details as they become available. Check the web
site at
TO HELP please contact Senator Clinton's Offices:
Make a polite call to her Washington and especially her Syracuse
Office (ask for/leave a message for Mr. Jay Biba). You can also fax a
letter to both.
Syracuse Local rep, Jay Biba tel: 315-448-0470, fax: 315-448-0476
Lona Valmoro (Senior Advisor), tel: 202-224-4451, fax: 202-228-0121
Your Phone Calls - Clinton Response
It is beginning to make an impact. Some responses to what we have
heard them say so far:
1) "We've had no request for a meeting" -- Repeated letters have been
mailed, FAX'd, and FedEx'd to the Senator. Some have been delivered
in person. We have had NO reply and NO return phone calls.
2) "The Senator doesn't come for personal meetings to Syracuse" - We
are not looking for a one-to-one meeting. We'd like her to hear first
hand from a small group of parents,
. She is often in the
Central New York area to meet with other business/advocacy groups.
3) "This is not a Federal issue" -- This is about getting the Civil
Rights of parents and children to be together, recognized &
protected. It should not matter what State you live in.
4) "Priority, schedule conflicts" -- Is there anything more important
and foundational to our Nation than the family?
John Murtari
Coordinator AKidsRight.Org
"A Kid's Right to BOTH parents"
Toll Free (877) 635-1968(x-211)
Hero Member
Karma: 899
Posts: 735
Re: John Murtari peacefully arrested outside Clinton offices
Reply #6 on:
January 19, 2008, 12:38:56 AM »
Re: John Murtari peacefully arrested outside Clinton offices
Posted by: "privateeye4justice"
Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:46 pm (PST)
--- In
, "Chairman"
<Chairman@...> wrote:
> Murtari peacefully arrested outside Clinton offices
> Good People & People of Faith,
> John Murtari returned to the Syracuse Federal Building with a
> containing pictures of parents and children unjustly separated. He
> also carrying kid's chalk and planned to write "I LOVE YOU" to his
> and "SEN CLINTON HELP US" on the ground outside the building. He was
> taken into custody by building security.
> A press release was also sent out and you are free to redistribute:
> We will release more details as they become available. Check the web
> site at
> TO HELP please contact Senator Clinton's Offices:
> -------------------------------------------------
> Make a polite call to her Washington and especially her Syracuse
> (ask for/leave a message for Mr. Jay Biba). You can also fax a
letter to
> both.
> Syracuse Local rep, Jay Biba tel: 315-448-0470, fax: 315-448-0476
> Lona Valmoro (Senior Advisor), tel: 202-224-4451, fax: 202-228-0121
> Your Phone Calls - Clinton Response
> ----------------------------------
> It is beginning to make an impact. Some responses to what we have
> them say so far:
> 1) "We've had no request for a meeting" -- Repeated letters have
> mailed, FAX'd, and FedEx'd to the Senator. Some have been delivered
> person. We have had NO reply and NO return phone calls.
> 2) "The Senator doesn't come for personal meetings to Syracuse" -
We are
> not looking for a one-to-one meeting. We'd like her to hear first
> from a small group of parents,
. She is often in the
> Central New York area to meet with other business/advocacy groups.
> 3) "This is not a Federal issue" -- This is about getting the Civil
> Rights of parents and children to be together, recognized &
> It should not matter what State you live in.
> 4) "Priority, schedule conflicts" -- Is there anything more
> and foundational to our Nation than the family?
> --
> John Murtari
> _____________________________
> Coordinator AKidsRight.Org
> jmurtari@... "A Kid's Right to BOTH parents"
> Toll Free (877) 635-1968(x-211)
> =======================================
> A Kid's Right to Both Parents!
John, I certainly support mens rights complaints, and am against all
injustice as a whole. Why are you wasting your time with Clinton?
When are you going to get the message that she does not care about
you or anyone but herself? Why don/t you go to the White House and
do the same thing; why in the world would you hope some female, whose
is guilty of the same problems we are grumbling about, is going to
solve the problem? Consider this. Her ignoring you throughout all
of these events, should be the proof you need, that she does not care
and if she had the power to change the problem, she flat out
refuses. You try to compare your effort to Martin Luther King.
However, you have in my opinion, twisted the facts. Martin Luther
King would not be writing on the sidewalk with chalk he loves his son
and try and get an audiance with Hillary Clinton. Dr. King would
have gone outside Domenic's residence and school and church and
athletic events, and written on the sidewalk with chalk, that he
loved his son. You are creating a criminal record for yourself. You
are smarter than this. Change your strategy and try something new,
maybe, jump on board with other groups and unite on a single front
instead of each person in this movement, (0r non-movement) from
trying to chart a new course of their own.
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Murtari released/ Who 'we' are/ Burning cars for reform?
Reply #7 on:
January 19, 2008, 02:29:35 PM »
Murtari released/ Who 'we' are/ Burning cars for reform?
on behalf of John Murtari (
Sent: Sat 1/19/08 12:23 PM
Good People & People of Faith,
This message has info on:
1. Murtari update - need a little help for us all.
2. Group identity - who are 'we'? Car burning?
3. Letters to the Editor - Dr. Malcolm Hatfield, MD
4. Let's have a laugh at ourselves - DESPAIR.COM
1. Murtari update - need a little help for us all
I'm happy to be 'free' this weekend. My thanks to those who called my
office and left a message and who called the offices of Sen. Clinton
for our cause. For some factual details on what my status is I've
included an excerpt from the web site farther below.
If any of you have reached the point where you're ready to participate
in a NonViolent Action and you agree with the goals & methods of our
-- I sincerely welcome
you to contact me. I am 'tentatively' planning to return to the
Federal Building next Thursday, Jan 24th. While I am ready to proceed
alone, it would be more productive if more parents were involved.
I truly believe that when a Federal Magistrate (and the public) sees a
group of Mothers & Fathers arraigned in hand-cuffs, there 'alleged'
offense being writing "I LOVE YOU" and "SEN CLINTON HELP US" on the
ground in chalk -- we will have reached a significant milestone in our
Civil Rights movement. Two reasons:
1) Talk is cheap. Actions show what we really believe. We will have
convinced ourselves that the right to be presumed FIT & EQUAL parents
to our children is worth the sacrifice (especially when our efforts
may not help us, but other parents).
2) Our actions will convince ANY politician, especially Sen. Clinton,
and the members of the public (who haven't been through CPS or a
divorce themselves), that 'ours' is an important issue for 'them'.
We had a big chance last Tuesday, our Press Releases were sent out,
-- I was contacted by
a reporter for WTVH (the local CBS affiliate) and they were ready to
send a crew to cover the event, to interview parent's dropping off
their letters with Sen. Clinton's local staff and willing to write
with chalk. They asked many how many other parents would be there? I
had to tell them, "none."
It's so tiring to hear the criticisms of others, especially Sen.
Clinton, that I see in many email messages. The problem is not
'them'. Do I (or you) expect a US Senator to drop what they're doing
in response to a ONE person effort? No.... We as parents need to make
the big effort first.
Lastly, why continue as just ONE? Because, irregardless of what
others may do I have a moral obligation to act to correct a great
injustice in our society, even if it causes me some 'discomfort'. It
doesn't anger me when I'm alone. I understand the many pressures we
all face -- but I also have a deep Faith that in time, more parents
will join in and we will succeed -- because our cause is just.
Contact me, leave me a message and your phone number (clearly),
toll free, 877-635-1968, x-211, email:
Hope to see you soon!
John Murtari
(for more details)
Jan 17, 2008 - After two nights in jail, John was returned to Court
for a 'detention hearing' in front of US Magistrate David Peebles.
Initially it appeared that John would be returned to jail for
violating the conditions of his release from Judge Peebles on
Sep. 27th. The Judge was fair minded and took the time to adjourn and
listen to the audio transcript of the Sep 27th proceeding. He
determined that John had not violated his release conditions. After
some discussion it was felt that the current stay-away order was too
broad and the US Attorney decided to dismiss the charges from the Jan
15th arrest. John also plans to submit a motion to have the stay away
order retroactively vacated, and so possible get the remaining two
charges dismissed.
John was allowed to proceed as his own counsel and the Judge granted
his request for the help of an assigned 'attorney advisor.' It was
decided that the remaining two charges of Criminal Contempt would be
treated as a Class B Misdemeanor, a maximum sentence of six months for
each offense and no right to a jury trial -- the trial should be in
early March. Judge Peebles revised his conditions of release so that
John could stand in front of the building, but he was not allowed to
'deface' government property (which was targeted at his chalk writing
in the past)....
2. Group identity - who are 'we'? Car burning?
To all the mothers and fathers out there who are concerned with Family
Rights, who share the goals of our AKidsRight.Org group: Below you
will see a message that was posted during a "Men's leadership/rights"
discussion. Nobody bothered to disagree? I posted a reply and the
original author posted a follow up (below). Hopefully, it will
encourage some thought. Let's begin to figure out where we belong?
What is your group's goal, what are their & your methods?
--- Bruce Eden <
> And, if they try and crush us under their heels, who's willing to
> stand up and fight back, with counterinsurgency if necessary? It
> may come down to spray painting cars, slashing tires, burning cars,
> etc. Is this what they define as domestic terrorism or a revolt?
> Weren't the patriots in 1775 considered terrorists by the Crown when
> they revolted? Didn't the British leaders, the judges and the Crown
> send troops to quell the protesters and terrorists? I read that's
> what King George and his Generals called Washington and his army.
> Remember what happened? Remember Paul Revere? Does anybody read
> history and see how it is repeating itself here? What's the
> difference if fathers go forward and strike down feminist seminars
> with protests and threats?
> We need to find where the lawyers and feminist groups hold their
> public conferences, meetings, seminars and start attending,
> infiltrating and breaking them up. The CIA and FBI were good at
> doing this in the 50s and 60s with the communists. There is no
> difference between feminists and communists.... Child support laws
> come from Soviet Family Law, Article 81. Domestic violence laws are
> from communist doctrine. No-fault divorce was in the works by
> communist-feminists in the 1940s. No wonder we had the McCarthy
> hearings then. We need them again.
... The message above was sent on the 14th, looks like a lot of 'men'
read it and nobody disagreed? Or perhaps were afraid to publicly? I
reject every proposed 'action' Bruce promotes -- do any of you? Do I
even have to explain why?
Bruce, since you said it, whose car do you plan on burning first?
What if mine is parked on that street, or the car of one of our son's
or daughter's? Just a little collateral damage? Just the price of
freedom? Fill me in, but I don't remember an incident where George
Washington went yelling down a street and set someones carriage on
fire and then ran and hid? Give me some history on that...
Well, who is suppose to pay the price for what you "men" perceive as
"your" rights. Me and my family? Explain to me again what separates
you from a terrorist?...
I know Rich Doyle, I know Bruce, and many more of you ... I know they
care deeply about what is happening to 'men' and in many ways I would
also agree, it is a tragedy. In Rich's message he asked why 'we' are
not united. I think he missed one answer -- 'we' don't share the same
goals, nor the same approach to achieve those goals. I believe the
answers to those questions help bring people together as a
We need to begin to separate ourselves as we think about those
questions. That natural separation takes time to happen in any
Civil Rights movement, and some of those 'clusters' will fail...
... Whose car do you plan on burning first to achieve your goal? I'd
like to share those answers with members of the movement I am a member
of -- mothers & fathers united as 'parents' peacefully seeking to
preserve their right to be presumed EQUAL and FIT parents. By our
voluntary self-sacrifice, we are willing to pay the price for what we
believe in.
--- Bruce replies
> Hmmm. John Murtari makes a cogent point! However, we have seen him
> protest his way (by hunger strike). Where did it get him? Nowhere,
> but maybe shortening his life. Yes, he may leave a legacy for his
> children. But, so what. That's an individual viewpoint. John does
> what John does. I don't see him getting 100 men to protest at a
> courthouse or tie themselves by chains to the governors' office. I
> don't see him protesting bad judges at reappointment hearings (in NJ
> we had over 200 show up to stop a judge in one instance, and 150
> showed up to testify against a judge from reappointed in another).
> That is real protest and real actions. How about demonstrating at
> multiple courthouses on the same day John? Have you got enough
> followers to do that? And, John is probably on the terrorist watch
> list at this point because he's protested by himself at Clinton's
> office, causing her to be "threatened" by this father....
> My comments were directed to one who mentioned that the government
> was "trying to crush us under their heels". The Nazi jackboots
> attempted that for 10 long years in 1933-1943 before they were
> systematically destroyed by the allies. Many fought back the only
> way they could against a standing army. Many wound up in gas
> chambers, ovens or were machine-gunned into open pits. My point
> was, "how much longer are we going to allow a standing army in this
> country to continue crushing fathers until someone stands up and
> fights back?" At this point in time, the only thing that may be
> left is violence. You look at the Mid-East. Why are they sending
> out women and children to blow up soldiers? Because they tried
> every other way and doesn't work. When you have a standing army, as
> we do in this country (i.e., child support enforcement and domestic
> violence enforcement officers), and no one listens to your
> complaints of "violations of your civil rights" what is the
> alternative?
> It seems that John Murtari has tried and accomplished nothing with
> his hunger strikes and single-man protests? Did he get Hillary
> Clinton to come out and answer his questions? No. He couldn't even
> get any of her aides to show up. Who did show up though were
> jackbooted thugs to accost, TERRORIZE and assault Murtari.
> If what I say is terrorism, what are they doing to use every day.
> Each person will have to decide what they want to do and then
> organize to the extent of what they want to do.... start showing up
> at courthouses with protest signs and getting the press involved to
> the point saying that if the courts don't listen, we will be at the
> judge's house on the weekends letting the neighbors know who these
> child molesters and tyrants are...
> Revolutions NEVER start peacefully. They didn't here in 1775. They
> didn't at the Bastille. They didn't when the Confederacy wanted to
> secede from the Union. They didn't in India (the British were
> mowing the locals down by the hundreds). There were a lot of
> burnings, property destruction and unfortunately killings during the
> Civil Rights movement in the 1960s (see, Selma, Alabama and Newark,
> NJ; more recently Watts and later, Rodney King in L.A.). And, it
> may just come to that again here when fathers have finally have
> said, "Enough is Enough".
> So, John, your voluntary self-sacrifice was an exercise in futility
> and human waste. Before you presuppose you know what you are
> talking about or know what you're doing, there are those of us out
> there that were doing this long before you got involved. And, yes,
> there are those of us out there that were already slashing tires,
> spraying swastikas on cars and buildings and burning cars against
> DFS and other anti-family agenciesb ... before you chastise me or
> anyone else with regard to these ideas, it has already been done and
> there's a history of it being extremely effective.
> You can still spray-paint swastikas on cars and buildings, throw cow
> manure filled balloons against lawyers and judges front doors and in
> swimming pools on hot summer days, let the air out of tires on these
> peoples' cars, smash windshields, and hand their kids letters to
> give to their lawyer-or judge-fathers and mothers when they are
> coming home from school. You need to let them know that they are
> not liked for what they do, and let them know who you are....
> These are all things that can be done to make impacts. However, it
> requires numbers of people to be demonstrating at courthouses and
> politicians offices. This is more effective and press-worthy and
> creates an environment for new members.
3. Letters to the Editor - Dr. Malcolm Hatfield, MD
Dr. Hatfield has been a long time member of the group and active in
Wisconsin. You can read his story at our Hall of Shame,
He has written a couple of excellent Letters to the Editor and their
are links below. The second letter encourages folks to pay attention
to a new Bill under discussion in Wisconsin, hearings scheduled for
Jan 24th.
4. Let's have a laugh at ourselves - DESPAIR.COM
Folks, if I've learned anything about this effort, you have to keep a
sense of humor about yourself and our efforts. Here are some of my
favorites from DESPAIR.COM
WARNING - do not visit the site and STOP READING NOW if you are being
treated for over-seriousness or depression. First consult with your
doctor if you have liver problems or are being treated with statins or
MAOI inhibitors ... YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.....
"When you earnestly believe you can compensate for a lack of skill by
doubling your efforts..... There's no end to what you can't do."
"Your role may be thankless, but if you're willing to give it your
all... You just might bring success to those who outlast you."
"It could be that the purpose of your life is... Only to serve as a
warning to others."
"For every winner, there are dozens of losers..... Odds are you're one
of them."
John Murtari
Coordinator AKidsRight.Org
"A Kid's Right to BOTH parents"
Toll Free (877) 635-1968(x-211)
A Kid's Right to Both Parents!
Newsletter mailing list
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John Murtari: Customer
Reply #8 on:
February 20, 2008, 01:23:57 PM »
John Murtari: Customer
Posted by: "incredible.family"
Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:37 pm (PST)
Report: Impact of Jail Expansion in New York State
There has been dramatic growth in the number of people held in local
jails in New York State in the last decade, with the total capacity of
jails in upstate New York and Long Island increasing by 20 percent, to a
total of 19,984 beds in 2006. By the close of 2007, over 30 counties in
New York State will have built some
6,000 new jail beds, 2,976 of which are currently either under
construction or are in the planning stages. This construction has come
at tremendous cost to the taxpayers of New York an estimated $1
billion according to the New York State Association of Counties. In many
counties, these projects have been the
largest locally financed capital project in the history of the county.
It has also occurred at the same time as the population of people held
in state prisons has continued to fall.
(See bottom of page to view or download the full report as a pdf)
The growth in the number of people held in jail has not been caused by
an increase in crime, as index crime reports decreased by 30 percent in
the last decade in upstate and suburban New York overall. It has also
not been caused by an increase in the base population, which increased
by just 2.6 percent over this same ten year time span.
One major factor in new jail construction has been the State Commission
of Corrections, a state agency appointed by the govenor that has been
directly responsible for the size and scale of new jail construction in
New York State. Although providing no financial assistance to counties
building new jails, the SCOC has mandated the size and timeline of their
construction and dealt financial penalties to counties who have chosen
to pursue alternatives to expansion instead or do not otherwise comply.
County legislators across the state have voiced frustration with the
Commission, claiming that these are unfunded mandates and that the
agency is acting outside the scope of its regulatory authority. They
maintain that the agency would better serve the counties by examining
why jail populations are increasing and act to address those factors
instead. Some of these factors include: arrest policies that cause more
people to spend time in jail for low-level offenses, a rising number of
people being housed in jail who are mentally ill, system inefficiencies
that make it difficult for people to move rapidly through the justice
system, local jails being used to hold people detained by the Department
of Homeland Security's Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement
and the U.S. Marshal Service, and a lack of coordination between county
and state corrections officials that leaves many people who have been
sentenced to prison sitting in local jails.
The impacts of this jail expansion on New York State are significant.
Economically, the cost of construction is estimated at $1 billion,
causing property taxes to increase and cutting into county expenditures
in other areas. Socially, the burden of new jail construction is
disproportionately experienced by low-income communities of color, who
form a disproportionate percentage of people being held in local jails.
This disproportionate representation is due to racial bias at every
stage of the criminal justice system, yet it has long term consequences
for individuals' employment levels and economic success. Finally,
new jail construction poses a large environmental risk to upstate and
suburban New York, with the United States Environmental Protection
Agency having identified correctional facilities as a large, but
frequently overlooked, environmental issue.
Given that jail expansion has such a heavy impact on the communities and
taxpayers of New York State, all alternatives to expansion should be
examined before any new construction takes place. To that end, the
report endorses the following recommendations:
* The State Commission of Corrections should stop the practice of
mandating the construction and size of correctional facilities in New
York State; * In place of mandates regarding new construction, New
York State counties should begin "evidence-based planning"
regarding needs for local jail capacity, based on a real assessmentof
why increasing numbers of people are in jail and issuing recommendations
accordingly; and * New York State should institute contract controls
to monitor how contracts are distributedand their impacts on taxpayers.
The issue of jail expansion in New York has to date been underexamined,
yet the impacts are significant throughout the state. Failing to
identify and address these impacts would be a considerable, and
extremely costly, mistake.
Attached Files
* Repot_ImpactsOfJailExpansionI
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Jailed Outside Clinton Offices - Worth It?
Reply #9 on:
February 20, 2008, 02:13:22 PM »
Jailed Outside Clinton Offices - Worth It?
on behalf of John Murtari (
Sent: Wed 2/20/08 12:31 PM
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Good People & People of Faith,
This will be my longest jail time as part of a NonViolent Action for Family Rights. In the past Federal Magistrate DiBianco had assigned a max of 10 days for any single offense -- my longest sentence of 30 days for three incidents. Federal Magistrate Peebles, newly assigned to handle my activity, is taking a much firmer approach.
I've been held in jail since Jan. 29th and my trial isn't until March 31st. I'm facing Criminal Contempt for disobeying his order to stop my actions.
Stop using kid's chalk to write "I LOVE YOU" to my son and "SEN CLINTON HELP US" on the ground outside the Syracuse Federal Building. I did it twice, so I'll have already done 30 days for each incident prior to my trial -- and I'm pretty sure he plans to add on even more. The max he can give me is 6 months for each incident. Is it worth it? Should parents stop thinking of doing something like this?
Public Action to change Public Opinion
I think everyone agrees we would get some good media coverage and maybe a National story if a steady stream of parents began to come to Syracuse. If they come to write "I LOVE YOU" to their kids and accept arrest (realistically, you would probably only get a ticket and be released, but anyone would have to be ready for jail).
A sequence of arrests would fascinate the media and certainly cause them to ask questions. Including questions to Sen. Clinton and her staff -- why won't you meet with these peaceful & loving parents about Family Rights?
We are not Criminals
Peaceful Civil Disobedience is an essential part of NonViolent Action. How should we feel about ourselves and how should we be treated? If the year was 1955 would you assign the same amount of criminal intent to these two offenders: a black man writing "I AM EQUAL" with chalk versus a vandal who writes profanity?
Before being arrested on the 29th I wrote a letter to Judge Peebles trying to explain my motivation. I hope it represents ideas many of us share.
Is it Worth it?
Boy, haven't I had a chance to think about that one! Jail is no fun and I'll be missing Spring Break with my son. The Judge denied my request for a change in trial date. What if no other parents join the effort? Is it worth it?
Is there a God that loves us even more than we love our own children? Faith has always been a foundation of NonViolent Action. Especially at the beginning of a Civil Rights movement.
We all remember the name of the black lady, Rosa Parks, who refused to move to the back of the bus. She provided a trigger for the bus boycott and for the hundreds of "freedom riders" that followed. Blacks who sat in the front of the bus and accepted jail with dignity.
Was she the first one? No. You can be sure there were others before her. Arrested, jailed and nobody remembers their names. Homes burned down by the KKK for being an uppity ni$$er and we don't know them.
Am I willing to be a no name? Are you? Is it worth it? How great of a Civil Right is the ability to be presumed FIT & EQUAL parents unless found guilty in a criminal court of harming our children with malintent?
If you have time
Please read the letters to Judge Peebles about my intentions, and asking for a change in trial date to see my son. His mailing address and that of the US Attorney can be found there. Write and let them know what you think about Family Rights. Fax/call the offices of Senator Clinton in Syracuse (Mr. Jay Biba, fax: 315-448-0476, tel: 315-448-0470). You're welcome to also send me a copy in jail. My address is:
John Murtari
P.O. Box 143
Jamesville, NY 13078
I look forward to hearing from you! Please also write your return address within your letter. The Jail ocassionally rips off return addresses when opening envelopes for inspection. I hate to ask, but small donations of $5 - $10 are welcome. They will help cover phone and mail expenses while I'm in jail. They should be in the form of a Postal money order with my name. As in the past, we will post the names of contributors at the web site.
John Murtari
Coordinator AKidsRight.Org
"A Kid's Right to BOTH parents"
Toll Free (877) 635-1968(x-211)
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Showing support March 31st - Murtari Federal Trial / Your FEEDBACK
Reply #10 on:
February 28, 2008, 01:49:12 PM »
Showing support March 31st - Murtari Federal Trial / Your FEEDBACK
on behalf of John Murtari (
Sent: Wed 2/27/08 1:49 PM
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Good People & People of Faith,
This message has info on:
1. Showing support March 31st - Murtari Federal Trial
2. Email/Organizational Help - Welcome!
3. Your FEEDBACK
1. Showing support March 31st - Murtari Federal Trial
We'd like to give everyone early notice of plans to create a positive media event to support our Civil Right to be presumed EQUAL & FIT parents.
GOAL: Get as much media attention as we can to the Murtari Federal Trial scheduled for March 31st. A loving & peaceful parent on trial for trying to convince Sen. Clinton to meet with parents by writing "I LOVE YOU" to his son and "SEN CLINTON HELP US" with kid's chalk.
WHEN/WHERE: The trial is scheduled to begin at 0930 on Monday, March 31st, in front of Federal Magistrate Judge David Peebles. It's open to the public and should last less than two hours.
The trial will be at the Federal Courthouse located in the Hanley Federal Building, 100 S. Clinton St., Syracuse, NY. The same building also holds the local offices of Sen. Hillary Clinton. There is convenient and reasonably priced parking behind the building.
* Mar 1st - In addition to the letters many of you have written, John Murtari will write another letter to Sen. Clinton asking her to meet with parents.
* Mar 7th - We will be asking anyone who has ever called/written Sen. Clinton to give us their contact info and what (if any) response they received from her.
* Mar 1-15 - Collect quotes from leaders in the EQUAL & FIT parenting movement that can be referenced from the News Release to be sent out on Tue, Mar 25. Media will be given contact info for each person quoted.
* Mar 25 - Send out News Release to both local and national media. Wherever possible, make phone contact with reporters to discuss. Include contact info for leaders quoted in release.
* Mar 31 - 0930 - Everybody present in Court Room as the trial begins. In groups of 2 or 3 parents alternate, visiting the offices of Sen. Clinton, drop off your story and your letters for reform. We will arrange for people to speak to the media as soon as they become available.
NOTE: We will not be disruptive in any way. We encourage people to dress well (coat & tie or business suit) for the day's activities.
If we have a Mom & Dad ready to write "I LOVE YOU" & "SEN CLINTON HELP US" with chalk, we will try to arrange to have media there to record the event.
2. Email/Organizational Help - Welcome!
As our group continues to grow we get even more email that needs answers. If you have been a member for at least a year and share the goals and approach we have for EQUAL & FIT parenting,
-- please send a message to Teri Stoddard -
There is obviously more planning that needs to be done for our event on March 31st. If you can help please contact Teri Stoddard. There are roles for both people who can/not make it to Syracuse on that day.
3. Your FEEDBACK
--- George Homer <
> I'm sorry but I disagree John...no protest should ever be done
> without permits in order to be leagally considered a non-violent
> action!
--- Ipyramus <
> I'd be there in a second by I am a lawyer and I would lose my
> license. I have no time to study the federal laws on this issue, but
> I suspect that there is another way to "write on the sidewalk with
> chalk" that is legal. I wish we could all go to help. Clinton is
> losing her election because of this and other stances.
--- GAFamilyRights <
> Wonder what would happen if we all went to our FEDERAL
> BUILDINGS... Hmmm WISH I COULD COME TO NEW YORK.....
--- Andrea Brown <
> Maybe if you focused on your child instead of yourself, such as
> paying your child support and being with him instead of being in
> jail when you do have visitation things might be better for your
> son. i would like you to stop sending me this crap. i hope they lock
> you up forever.
--- Donald Tenn <
> I hope that you are doing as well as can be expected given your
> situation. You do now, as you always have had, my full support. I
> will write the requested letters if not this evening certainly by
> this weekend. I am busier than usual as my case has again taken
> another twist and I am again heading back to Illinois. This is part
> of my campaign for my daughter Madison to have her EQUAL parenting
> rights.
--- Jerry Mattiaccio <
> I don't mean to sound rude, but as a former federal agent, how are
> you sending email communications to the masses if you are confined
> in federal lockup? I am sorry for your situation, but something
> doesn't ring correct here? You want money sent to a PO Box? Why not
> name the correctional facility you are in along with your inmate
> identification number. I have never heard of a simple PO box for a
> federal prisoner and I have locked up many.
This is how the jail addresses stuff, it's a county jail, US Marshals
find it convenient to hold people there. This is how the jail does
their addresses. URL of the jail's web site:
--- Jeff Ducken <
> Hi John, Great story and ideas Your suffering will end in a few
> years when your son can make up his own mind. I certainly hope it
> was worth it in your eyes. You will be fortunate to have a
> relationship with your son > when he is 18 unlike so many other
> fathers that have gone threw the same battles. Unfortunately, you
> can never get the lost time back at least you can always stand proud
> with your son > and let him know you were there.
> I do wonder when your son is a teenager if he starts to rebel
> because of this and comes to you refuses to go back what the courts
> will do? Sure it will be interesting to say the least.
> Currently I do have what is right 50/50 custody. I?m sharing with a
> mother that wants nothing to do with me and has tried several times
> to take my time away. Whenever we are in court > even though its?
> never about something I did the courts will threaten me. Shared
> custody does work but, it also needs to be enforced. When I talk
> with our daughter she always tells me > how she enjoys being shared
> between us. For that reason I do nothing and deal with the system
> and my daughter?s mom. It?s been a very expensive road but worth it!
> Hope you the best
> I am compelled to reply to "D.M." from a recent Glenn Sacks newsletter
> (below). D.M. takes some totally unjustified and misleading cheap
> shots at John Murtari. In the process, D.M. shows the true merit of
> the current family law/child support industry:
> D.M. implies that John doesn't pay child support while living in the
> lap of luxury. Anybody who knows John, knows that this couldn't be
> further from the truth. John lives in his childhood home, hardly a
> mansion. He drives an extremely old car. His one "luxury" is his
> occasional trip to visit his son who lives in another state. Somehow
> D.M. implies that when a father visits his son, this is an
> inexcusable, frivolous extravagance. Heaven forbid a man visits his
> son. Of course if he didn't visit his son, this would just prove
> that men are heartless and incapable of a loving relationship with
> their children. So either way, D.M. would find fault with
> men/fathers.
> D.M. also states (not implies) that John is "unwilling to make
> sacrifices." Au contrair, my friend. John has made the ultimate
> sacrifices. He has spent many days in jail and spent many of those
> days on a hunger strike in the cause of parental rights. Unlike
> D.M., John does not discriminate against one gender. John believes
> that children deserve both parents.
> In typical fashion, D.M. reveals the true goal of most child support
> and family law advocates. That men are robbed of both their money
> and their right to be equal parents. Well thank God for people like
> John Murtari who advocate for the rights of both children and
> parents. Those of us who know John, know the truth. He is a true
> hero.
> I am also a big fan of you, Glen. I hope you write a rebuttal to
> D.M. He is truly anti-male and anti-father. (By the way, if "D.M."
> is so proud of his views, why is he hiding his true identity behind
> initials?)
Here is the original posting:
> Private Child Support Industry Leader's Perspective for
> GlennSacks.com Readers
> A few years ago I retired after spending about over a decade in the
> child support industry, being one of the founding fathers of the
> private child support industry. That of course makes me an instant
> enemy of your contributors, and few, if any, would really care what
> I think or believe.
> At one point, we audited all of our active cases - something like
> 475 at the time. The "average" child support obligation was $250
> per month for one child, $350 for two children. Hardly excessive by
> any means.
> The average arrearage was in excess of $8,000 before interest was
> added.
> 63% of our clients had not remarried. 74% of the NCP's had
> remarried.
> 17% of the NCPs that we were able to contact, claimed that they were
> not paying because they were being denied visitation. In less than
> 1% of the cases this was true. With the remaining 16% we
> facilitated visitation again. The longest that the visitation
> lasted was 4.7 months. In every case, the NCP quit the visitation
> because it was too much of a burden on him.
> Overall, our successful collection rate was in the neighborhood of
> 83%. The unsuccessful collections were people that we couldn't find
> or who simply would not pay no matter what. All that we were able
> to secure collections from - 83% - were able to pay at least the
> minimum amount. What precluded them paying more was other financial
> obligations. Of course, it should also be noted that 93% of these
> people all had bad credit, primarily from defaulting on things like
> telephones, rent, cars, trucks, etc. From a credit standpoint, they
> were simply irresponsible. Their job histories also demonstrated
> that. Many would quit a job when the wage withholding orders were
> being honored. Certainly not "deadbroke" as some activists claim.
> John Murtari, for example, claims to be broke - and that he can't
> afford to pay child support. Of course, his life style would
> indicate otherwise - his frequent trips for visitation, one trip to
> Italy, taking his mother for visitation, and paying himself as owner
> of a company less than his employees. His one minor redeeming
> quality is that he does at least, pay $50 a month in child support.
> Does he have an excuse for not paying child support? Yes, a very
> weak one. What weakens his position is that he could make an effort
> and pay both child support and visit his son. What further weakens
> his position is that he is once again in jail, because of his
> frequent attempts to "force" Senator Clinton to meet with him and
> his "group" which seemingly only exists on paper / Internet.
> Murtari will be in jail until his trial on 31 March. As is his
> style, which does fall into what I consider "deadbeat mentality," he
> wants the court to move up his trial date so he can see his son for
> spring break. Everyone should make sacrifices for him, and of
> course the argument is that it would be in the best interests of his
> son, but he is unwilling to make any sacrifices.
> The statistics that we evaluated are by no means indicative of a
> national picture. We did not accept cases of welfare recipients,
> unless the amount owed was very small. The reason was two fold: (1)
> economical - we could not charge for collections that went to the
> state and (2) if the mother was on welfare, typically, though by no
> means all cases, the father would be basically broke himself due to
> socio-economic situations. However, other private agencies that we
> spoke to were reporting similar experiences and statistics.
> No one knows if shared custody would have alleviated the problems.
> It probably would not have due to the personalities of the parents.
> But, there is no way to know that because we were looking at people
> after the fact, and when a significant amount of money was at stake.
--- Brian Heaton <
> John, My prayers are with you!!!! I know you have been threw a lot &
> someday it will pay off not only for yourself but others a well. I
> have also been held in custody jail for con temp etc. all in the
> fight to be a part of my children lives. While theses crooked
> Judge's allow my X & everyone elses X's to continue to get away with
> murder in the family court system which is truly a broken system
> that's teaching our society that it OK to allow broken homes &
> children to suffer for the price of pure greed. It lease for my self
> as well has yours among others too that have losted there freedom
> fighting for the right to be a Father,our very own children will
> know what we went threw for them & they'll pick up the fight until
> things are changed for the better of all fathers,mothers &
> grandparents that have dealt with such a broken court system that
> only cares about pure profit. Child Support system will be held
> accountable someday & has for Clinton just pray that she doesn't
> make it to office cz. her husband is the one who made some of theses
> laws that are hurting our families etc. Take-care John
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Murtari Trial Moved Up / Case Law Request
Reply #11 on:
March 04, 2008, 04:21:37 PM »
Murtari Trial Moved Up / Case Law Request
on behalf of John Murtari (
Sent: Tue 3/04/08 2:51 PM
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Good People and People of Faith,
This is a personal message about some recent events and some thoughts I would like to share. It's being written from my jail cell on Sunday night, to go out in the mail Monday, and hopefully typed and turned into a list message Wednesday! Click here for a detailed history.
On Saturday I received legal mail from the Federal District Court Clerk. It was a brief notice that my new trial date would be March 18th at 0930. It was quite a surprise!
As many of you know a few weeks ago I wrote a letter to Federal Magistrate Peebles. I wanted to have my trial date moved up to the 19th so that Domenic and I could have Spring Break / Easter together. It was quickly denied. It appears the trial date change was initiated by a schedule conflict for my attorney / adviser assigned by the court. I'd like to express my sincere thanks to those of you who wrote the Judge and US Attorney, for your prayers, and for God's help.
Last week we sent a message regarding trial event planning. We have updated the plan for the new trial date. It would certainly be great to see some of you there in person!
Teri Stoddard is in the process of moving expects an interruption in her Internet service. Kevin Purdy has agreed to fill in for her until she gets settled in. You can email Kevin at
I don't have a lot of time to get ready and I'm not going to complain to the judge since I wanted the accelerated trial date. The jail "law library" is limited.
During my last trial I was found not guilty on two of the four charges when a member of the group sent me a Federal case abstract from the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals that said, "no reasonable person could presume that writing with chalk would damage a sidewalk."
You can see what I'm being charged with here, criminal contempt for disobeying his order to not write with chalk on the Federal Plaza. For further background, please read the letter and motion I submitted, which is still pending, requesting dismissal. It has details on the points below.
* The matter is being tried as a "petty offense." What is the maximum penalty?
* How bad does a jail law library have to be in supporting case searches to justify a dismissal?
* In a finding of "criminal contempt," is there any defense if the behavior is motivated by strong moral conviction?
* Validity of a judicial order that "creates" a new crime. e.g. Federal / GSA regulations only prohibit "damaging" government property -- can it be extended to include chalk?
* Do the quiet actions of one person in a "traditional public forum" located on GSA property require a permit? The Syracuse Federal Plaza has been the site of many protests in the past and is also used for music festivals.
Time is limited. The trial scheduling order calls for legal submissions by March 13. You can reply with an email message and link to the case details. If possible, I would really appreciate just having the case details printed and mailed to me. (Please include your return address in your letter. The jail sometimes tears off return address labels.)
John Murtari
P.O. Box 143
Jamesville, NY 13078
Hero Member
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Murtari Trial - Write the newspaper / Your FEEDBACK
Reply #12 on:
March 14, 2008, 06:24:35 PM »
Murtari Trial - Write the newspaper / Your FEEDBACK
on behalf of John Murtari (
Sent: Fri 3/14/08 10:42 AM
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Good People & People of Faith,
This message has info on:
1. Write the newspaper - Letters to the Editor
2. Your FEEDBACK - in words and action.
1. Write the newspaper - Letters to the Editor
We sent out a news release today to both local and national media regarding John Murtari's upcoming Federal Trial. He's facing contempt charges for writing "I LOVE YOU" to his son and "SEN CLINTON HELP US!" with chalk on the ground of the Federal Plaza. The news release is free for anyone to retransmit. It can be found at this link:
The Post-Standard is the Syracuse Metro newspaper. In the past they have published collections of letters regarding John's political activity. We hope they will do so again regarding this trial and the failure of Senator Clinton to meet with parents. We encourage all of you to take the time to send them a brief message in the next few days. The paper's web site is at
. Here are their submission guidelines:
Letters should be 250 words or less (but up to 600 if they consider it very good). You must include your name, full mailing address, and a daytime phone number for verification if necessary. Address letters to:
The Reader's Page
P.O. Box 4915
Syracuse, NY 13211
Or by FAX to: 315-470-3081 or via E-Mail to:
. For the Subject line, use: Post-Standard letter
We know many of you can't travel the long distance to Syracuse, but your letters will certainly be a help. We will be checking the local paper and redistribute on our mailing list any letters that get published.
2. Your FEEDBACK - in words and action.
Your FEEDBACK to our last list message is below. We are asking people to come to Syracuse for the trial and visit Senator Clinton's local offices which are in the same building. Click here for complete info and directions. So far we've only had one person express interest in being there. We could certainly use a few more. If you can attend, please send a message to Kevin Purdy (
) and please "CC" a copy to
--- Jackie Ross <
> I don't see why you are harping on Sen Clinton - she is just a patsy
> for women's rights, she won't get you anywhere. I would find
> someone more sympathetic to your cause besides her.
--- per andersson <
> John,
> please continue all your talk about religion and Jesus!
--- B. A. Townley <
> Isn't it totally absurd that there are Federal charges for writing
> on sidewalks with chalk? Shouldn't Federal trials be for major
> things such as blowing up buildings, committing treason and other
> real crimes? They should have better things to spend time and
> resources for than a man who has a piece of chalk and the wish to
> see his child.
> WOW John:
> Those are the same exact Psalms I use to read when I was going
> through my custody battle. I still read them. I am also reminded
> of our servant Job in the bible. Everything he went through and he
> never cursed God. He was faithful. Thank you for reminding me of
> how wonderful our God is. The Lord is my strength and my rock. I
> don't know where I would be if it was not for Him, his love and
> grace. The love of my heavenly Father is what has given me the
> strength to continue living. Never lose your faith, is the only
> thing we have that is real and true. We need to continue trusting
> God and believe that everything that happens is for a reason. I
> believe that the Lord is using you for this cause that is so
> important. No one has the nerves to do what you do. Your strength
> and dedication to fight for the right of children and family can
> only come from God. God bless you brother. James
--- Aarde V. Atheian <
> Despite that I am repelled by your religiosity as I am an Athean who
> does not relate to any religion, I am both applauding and admiring
> your persistence and perseverance in resisting this unspeakable
> crimes against humanity that has been perpetrated by the Democratic
> Party and its cohort groups of lawyers, bureaucrats and feminists
> upon us.
> It doesn't matter if we win at all. Our enemy is so evil and so
> incontrovertibly mean that the mere struggle against it is justified
> any time you do it. So it's always been a bravo from me to you. We
> don't need worldly rewards for what we are doing.
--- Bonnie Bridgette Vallance <
> Dear John, I can't make it and I am sorry. My heartfelt thanks goes
> out to you for your efforts to raise the bar of credibility in
> family courts above the level of spectral evidence that is currently
> the status quo. My hopes are that accountability is also included
> toward any fabricators. For example psychologists fabricate and
> weave spectral stories to keep a parent from their own child. There
> are too many people making a lot of money instituting misery on
> children and one or more of their parents. This is what are taxes
> are going to! Right know as you may know lawyers and other alleged
> professionals are immune from prosecution in family court even if
> they knowingly present false information to a judge so that a parent
> can be kept from their child. These children are simply pawns in a
> system that is broken and needs repair. It is my hope that your
> efforts in behalf of these families and children are finally
> completed. The parent that lies and forces there child to lie to
> win payments from the "non custodial parent" are almost never
> prosecuted for perjury. Parents or relatives that kidnap a child
> when young and inflict Stockholm or parental alienation syndrome
> should not be rewarded with custody as is the current practice in
> many jurisdictions. Both parents should be given access based on age
> appropriateness following the guidelines as put forth by
> Dr. Brazelton in his Irreducible needs of the child. Contact and an
> ongoing relationship should be encouraged and supported by the
> system. Income level of a parent should not be used as a determining
> factor in custody what should be is the amount of time and devotion
> the parent is willing to expend in the care of the child. The system
> is in dire need of immediate overhaul many families are being
> damaged and many children are growing up with severe emotional
> difficulties because of the set up. Supplementation to facilitate
> relations with in the family needs to be instituted. Travel and
> other vouchers need to be included. Cost of have a relationship with
> your child should not be put upon a parent in a lower income bracket
> to make it impossible to see their child. Parents being lied about
> have reported being charged thousands to see there child and to pay
> court appointed evaluators when they are unemployed some even within
> weeks of giving birth for not apparent sound reason other than
> speculative false information. The family court system is
> instituting family crisis. If there is anything I can do let me
> know. Unfortunately I have obligations and can't attend in
> person. However I will be there in my heart. God Bless you and
> thank you.
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Writing with chalk to Sen. Clinton - not working!/ Plans & Your FEED
Reply #13 on:
April 16, 2008, 11:37:10 AM »
Writing with chalk to Sen. Clinton - not working!/ Plans & Your FEED
Posted by: "John Murtari"
Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:31 am (PDT)
Good People & People of Faith,
It's been a little quiet on our list the last few weeks. After
getting released from jail last month its taken a while to catch up
with my personal life, work, and answering a lot of your email. If
you tried to contact me and haven't gotten a reply -- then please send
your message again. My great thanks to those who wrote to either the
Judge or Sen. Clinton. A special thanks to those who made donations
to help with the cost of my actions.
Writing with Chalk - it doesn't work!
Well, it's hard to disagree with that one. Has writing "I LOVE YOU"
to our kids in chalk (and the sacrifice it represents) gotten us a
meeting with Sen. Clinton? No. Gotten our rights recognized? No.
Of course, I guess you could say that about almost everything we've
Have public rallies made reform a reality? No.
Have on-line petitions made reform a reality? No.
Have letter writing campaigns made reform a reality? No.
Have lobbying efforts with our legislators made it happen? No.
(add your method here)
Does this mean we should stop these efforts? No.
Future Plans
Here are just some brief ideas. More details will follow in the
future and your input AND help is welcome!
1. At present we are a loose group of people spread over the Internet.
Our mailing list is large, but we are not cohesive in our goals and
methods for reform. People come & go and a lot of time is spent
I have access to a complete social networking software package
that can be tied into our web site. It can also be modified to
meet our needs. I hope to announce the site next month and have
people join the network who share our goals and methods:
2. Donations. Right now the focus of the effort is Sen. Clinton
Offices in Syracuse. Some local advertising for group meetings might
be effective in getting parents together. I'm paying a $350 fine the
Federal Magistrate imposed and also $200 to get a transcript of my
trial proceedings (not for an appeal, but to share with the group.
The focus of the trial was my 'intent' and there was a lot of
testimony regarding our goals and methods as reformers that may be
3. Washington, D.C., Rally, Aug 15-17. If you only have a chance to
do ONE thing for reform, I highly recommend attending this rally. It
was an excellent event last year and more people are hoped for this
year. It is a great opportunity to meet people in person who you only
know now via email. Check out the web site:
for details.
4. More chalk of "SEN CLINTON HELP US" outside the Syracuse Fed.
Building in late August/early September -- hopefully with MORE
Faith & Action
I want to thank Debra Root <
> for a message she
sent me below. There are many methods for reform, but OUR method,
that of NonViolent Action requires voluntary and loving personal
> I am delighted that you were released in time to see your son. You
> have sacrificed so much for parents like me who have suffered so
> much at the hands of "justice." I do not pray anymore but you are
> in my thoughts. -- Debra
Faith is a difficult thing and I appreciate what you say about not
praying any more. I certainly had my moments waking up every morning
in jail and wondering -- does any of this matter? Who cares?
I can only share my 'foundation' -- which is a strong admiration for
Jesus of Nazareth, the real person, who was willing to die for what he
believed in -- and a GREAT part of his belief was that we have a
loving father who cares for us very much and that learning to love
opens the door to eternal life.
As you know, a lot of people 'talk', but very few people 'do'. I am
thankful for what he was willing to suffer and my small acts are a way
of honoring him and showing I also believe.
Your FEEDBACK
--- Meghan Schooler <
> I am so happy that you got to be with Dom for Easter. He is lucky
> he got to be with you. I hope things are well.
... Dom and I had a great time together last week and we are very
fortunate! Things are great -- it's nice to be free again!
--- Rick <
> Congratulations on your principled stand and courageous protest. I hope you
> have a happy contact visit from the 21st.
Thanks for the words of support! My son and I did have a very nice
time over the Easter break.
--- John Sottile <
> letter sent.
--- <
> [a] Jesus luvs you - everbody else thinks your ASSHOLE - don't fuk
> with federal judges
Get the laws changed to allow DEMAND Jury Trials for every case
> where parental rights are threatened to be terminated.
> [c] WAKE UP SMUCK - ! you could raise enough money to get this
> started in every state and actually do it and be able to live with
> financial dignity while doin it !!!!!!!!!
> [e] "Become the change you want": Ghandi Ji or keep on likin your
> wounds with bull shit ListServe postings and chalk wring on the
> sidewalks of federal courthouses and getting locked up - Jesus YU
> [F] WAKE UP moron: Jesus said: Suffer the little children, and
> forbid them not, to come to me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven
> You're being just another KNUCLE HEAD in jail don't work with that
> one putz !
Thanks for writing, I think? But next time, don't repress your
feelings so much and tell me what you really think? Actually, please
read the web site. I actually agree with most of the concepts you talk
about and they are at the site,
we just need more people to actually take action. I'd welcome your
thoughts on what you plan on personally doing to bring about reform.
(no reply)
--- Eric Washington <
> John why don't you go to the TV Stations? Get this televised so that
> people can see how ridiculous this Judge is for flaunting his abuse
> of power and authority. What you did is not a criminal act. You're
> exercising your 1st amendment right and freedom of speech. Their is
> also another avenue you can go. Contact the Court of Judicial
> Misconduct, which oversee Judges and Magistrates who over step their
> bounds. This is where you file your complaint about his conduct
> being arbitrary and capricious, as no violation of law has
> transpired.
... more participation is needed from other parents. No one had time
to come to the trial.
--- Lorraine c <
> John-I am happy you are out of jail and with your son! I spent the
> weekend with mine but it always ends the same @ 7 pm on Sunday. I
> have not heard what your plans or your next move is but I hope it
> will be with you staying out of jail.
Dom and I had a great time last week and we are very fortunate! Sorry
to hear about your situation, it is an indignity.
I will be taking it 'easy' through July because I do want to see my
son for our six week summer vacation and attend the DCRally2008.Com
event in mid August. But after that I will be back to the Federal
Building and hopefully with a few more parents with me.
--- Bob Green <
> Send the news release to the Obama campaign! If he uses your story
> as a political tool to show that Hillary does not really care about
> loving fathers and children (which she doesn't), you just might make
> it onto the major networks.
Thanks for the suggestion and it makes a lot of sense. Finding out
'who' to contact is the difficult part. If you have any time and can
pass the info on to them, it could be a big help.
--- "Gregory Langstrand" <
> 350.00 fine for chalking??!! Car thieves in NYC plead their
> felonies to disorderly conduct and pay a $250.00 fine. Great legal
> system we have in Amerika. Are you accepting donations to help
> offset that fine? Best of luck to you John.
--- Leszek Forczek <
> We find it hard to imagine and impossible to believe that the
> Founding Fathers of this nation, would not roll in their graves if
> they knew to what extent the liberty of the American Family in its
> right to raise their children as best they understand and can has
> been imposed upon by the Government. Would they ever believe that
> somehow the Constitution of this great country has backfired in the
> face of thousands of good and law-abiding citizens... who happen to
> be at the same time devote and loving parents. A perfect example of
> the statement of how power corrupts and absolute power corrupts
> absolutely. Immunity and the lack of oversight in the area of family
> law, has left a deep scar across the fact of American society and
> perhaps a grave cancer whose bottom-line is yet to emerge.
Thanks for writing and I quite agree with how are founding fathers
would feel about the 'gratuitous' intrusion on government into family
life; however, I think they (people who signed the Declaration of
Independence knowing they could be killed for 'treason') -- would be
surprised by how passively parents have allowed their children to be
taken and how unwilling we are to make personal sacrifice for what we
believe in?
I always ask people, what action are you willing to take to make
reform a reality? What sacrifices are you willing to make right now?
(no reply)
--- Nora Renzulli <
> I respect and support you. It is not easy to operate in a way so
> contrary to the ways of our culture.
> Is there any chance you have studied the process of Nonviolent
> Communication of Marshall Rosenberg.
> I believe that parents such as ourselves need to learn practical
> spirituality in order to implement a different way of being within
> the huge paradigm shift Jesus and other spiritual giants tried to
> teach a nonviolent way so that we can communicate with others in way
> that contributes to meeting the unmet needs of all for peace and
> connection.
I have looked at NonViolent Action through history,
-- and how it applies to Civil
Rights. It appears to be very effective, but requires personal
sacrifice -- which is always a tough sell.
--- F Cottone <
> HI John, Happy Easter and God Bless you. I was thinking we should
> get pastors involved in this since this is a abomination against
> God. You don't deserve this and I really feel God is going to honor
> our cause. I would like to plan a rally sometime in the summer if
> possible. You are on my heart and I make many people aware of your
> situation. The problem is we are weak in numbers so pray hard to God
> for help we need it.
I do agree with you 100% that the family law system in a gross affront
to our human dignity and the sanctity of the family unit. I am very
hopeful that things can change soon. It only requires a few more
people to get involved.
--- Arte Miastkowski <
> It's too bad John you do not want support in the courtroom or any
> where else for that matter from fellow FATHERS and MOTHERS who are
> proud to wear shirts on their chest that proclaim the word FATHER
> and have suffered abuse from the same illegal anti Constitutional
> system you are currently submitting yourself and son to. I wish you,
> your son the Monks in Burma and Tibet well. We have had this
> discussion before. We F4J where their for you at your first sentence
> as you hunger struck from the US and our Canadian brothers AND
> sisters as well.
> -arte
> Mary and Pauls Dad
We have talked about this before. We are looking to get "PARENT'S"
rights recognized and protected, MOTHERS & FATHERS. The Blacks were
not for "BLACK" rights, but basic CIVIL rights.
It's part of our identity as a movement and time will tell where the
best focus should be.
(Arte replies)
> You know I hold you in the utmost respect. We too are looking to
> get "PARENT'S" rights recognized and protected, MOTHERS & FATHERS.
> F4J FATHERS are not for "FATHERS" rights, but EQUAL CIVIL and most
> importantly CHILDRENS rights.
> It's part of our identity as a majority of NCPs.
--- A Forum Cowgirl <
> Those paragraphs make me real mad. I'm in family court, I fought for
> over a year and a half to stop the Gestapo from adopting off my
> grandchildren. who by the way, lived with me. They wrote me off the
> paper as if this was never the case.
Sorry to hear about your situation and 'social services' are just like
the Nazis at times in their control over family life. Change is
difficult and requires sacrifice, but I am hopeful more folks will get
involved soon.
--- Jim Pleace <
> God knows I support you and believe in what you're doing, but do you
> REALLY think you're going to reach MS. Clinton?? Man, it's all done
> at the State level. I can't even muster a fight any more but I know
> it's there. Join Greg Fischer in Brooklyn lobbying at the State
> level. I understand your approach, but you are harming yourself and
> not getting to see Dom in the process. Please tell me what this is
> accomplishing. Trying to change Ms. Clinton is like me standing
> outside the TN legislature trying to influence Mary Frances Lyle of
> the all powerful womens political caucus (note the LACK of caps
> there). Please John, we need you free and alive.
Thanks for writing and I have been to Albany with Greg for the last
3-4 years -- that has been ineffective. Civil rights are 'defined' by
the sacrifices we are willing to make to gain them -- we need to start
--- <
> Thanks for all your efforts and your dedication. As you know many of us
> are all behind you and I find it difficult to ask a favor of a man who
> risks so much for our movement, but I suppose we must all help each other.
> I know you have a considerable base of subscribers, I wonder if you could
> suggest that they join our (Equal Parenting Party) news letter as well.
> This can be done simply by clicking this link
> Or by visiting our home web page (
) and
> clicking the Join Newsletter button.
I have no problem mentioning the Party in an upcoming list message. I
did go to the site. EQUAL parenting should be the ideal, but I was a
bit disappointed to read the proposed resolution and see it only talk
about 'joint' custody with 'protections'. Is this your goal?
(Thomas replies)
> Not sure where you saw Joint Custody with "Protections" but the goal
> of the party is clearly shared parenting, or equal parenting. As
> usual - the best to all your efforts - clearly they have made a huge
> difference.
--- Richar Farr <
> Senator Hillary Clinton,
> As I review your record I cannot understand why you have not sought
> the help of Non-Custodial Parents to bring about a greater well
> being for American Families. They are over 25 million and growing
> in numbers everyday.
> They burn with the desire for a real change. They won't be silent
> and they are become more organized each day. These good Americans
> who have been victimized by the American family court system are not
> going to stay silent any longer.
> Why have you been silent towards their calls, Senator Clinton? As
> you are now. Please tell us Senator Clinton why do you not embrace a
> parent who simply wrote their child's name in chalk on an sidewalk
> in front of your office. Just a voter asking you for help. Why did
> you allow his arrest. why have you not spoken up for someone who
> speaks up for the family. You say the family is a primary issue for
> you.
> Senator Clinton, today at this moment, John Murtari sits in a New
> York jail for writing the name of his son and the phrase "Help Us
> Senator Clinton", in washable chalk. It makes no sense. Where is
> there proof of your family importance in the matter of John Murtari.
> How can it be. Misplace of values and a hunger for power? Senator
> Clinton, hear from 25 million non custodial parents who say you are
> not our kind of choice. Non custodial parents and their extended
> families will turn away from your bid for president. Until you turn
> towards hearing the voice of parents like John Murtari. An American
> Hero!
--- George <
> I don't have it as bad as you and I admire your taking a stand, not
> for you, but for your child.
> Out of respect for your time, stop screwing around with Hillary. She
> is a Communist at heart. She might call it progressive, liberal,
> whatever, but if she had it her way, all children would be required
> to go to school at 3 years of age, AND be able to turn their parents
> in to the government, for any reason.
> She can only vote for legislation on a national level anyway. You
> would have more of a chance with Joe Bruno, who controls whatever is
> voted upon in New York. Also your State Senator and Assemblyman.
> Maybe you already tried them, but continue to do so. They are your
> best shot, not Clinton and Schumer. I'm only sticking my neck out
> because I empathize with you. You might get mad at me. I will take
> that chance. Good luck and may the Lord be with you every step.
I really don't think our problem is "Hillary", and I have also been
involved in 'lobbying' at the state level and my local reps -- they
don't want to get involved in family law reform. It is a
'threatening' change.
As on rep frankly expressed it to me, "John, there needs to be a 'sea
change' in public opinion before any of this will happen."
I think you know no one else has stood with me and no one even had
time to come to trial and show support -- too far away, too busy,
working on other things.... Before we can expect others to support
us, we need to show that we really care ourselves. The big 'traitor'
to our cause is usually staring at us in the mirror?
I do have the Faith that it will happen in time, the same way the 'sea
change' occurred about 50 years ago regarding segregation. I always ask
people what 'actions' are you as an individual willing to do right now
to make reform happen? What sacrifices are you willing to make? I
don't get a lot of answers. How can we expect more from the
politicians who have never been through it.
(George replies)
> Your absolutely right! Reform starts with ourselves. I just saw
> Clinton's name on alot of your emails and wanted to tell you, she is
> not even a small part of the solution. She will say whatever she
> needs to you to get your vote (more than most). I hope that fathers
> don't give up on seeing their children, no matter what it costs. I
> was lucky in a way, because my ex (I think) saw that I would do what
> ever, to see my son. She gave up on the controlling. I know other
> mothers will hold out to the bitter end (age 18) to make life
> miserable for the father, and at the same time the child. I hope
> this doesn't happen to you.
John Murtari
Coordinator AKidsRight.Org
"A Kid's Right to BOTH parents"
Toll Free (877) 635-1968(x-211)
A Kid's Right to Both Parents!
Newsletter mailing list
subscribe/unsubscribe info below:
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Re: Trying to get info out before I go to jail.
Reply #14 on:
May 22, 2009, 09:37:18 PM »
The above thought is smart and doesnt require any further addition. Its perfect thought from my side.
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