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I'm opening this up to try and get all the discussion about yaw problems into one place so that it's not scattered. I'm working very hard to fix the yaw control because it seems to be the #1 complaint about the general flight characteristics currently. It seems like everything else related to "just flying around" is doing quite well, except for yaw.
I'd like to start by enumerating the individual problems. Please feel free to let me know if I missed any.
1) Copter "bounces" after entering a yaw command and then stopping.
2) Copter oscillates back and forth when yaw stick is centered. This is predominantly a Tricopter problem, but I'd like to know if any quad/hexa/octos have this problem. Any amount of oscillation is too much. So if you have logs to show it's oscillating 1°, I'd like to see it.
3) Yaw is too slow. Currently, yaw speed is controlled in a round-about way by Stab_Yaw_P. So to yaw faster, you increase Stab_Yaw_P, but if it's too high, it can lead to steady-state oscillation. This is obviously a problem. I think I have also just identified a situation where the yaw rate is also capped, no matter how high you turn Stab P.
4) Copter turns the wrong way if I try to turn it slowly to the left or right. This usually only happens in one direction. For helicopters, it's usually when you try turning to the right slowly, it will go left at first, until you feed it a lot of yaw stick, then it will start turning right, and then may turn right too fast. After releasing the stick, it will often turn left again before stopping. I believe this also really affects Tris, but should not affect quad/hexa/octo unless your frame is bent/motors not straight. But I'd like to hear about it if you have a problem.
5) Copter rotates when I punch up throttle. This is largely a TradHeli problem, and we already have a fix (Coll-Yaw) but I would like to know if it affects others. I would bet that it affects Tris too.
So far, I have already boiled down a lot of these problems and understand them very well. I had made a yaw fix that was in 2.6Delta, but it was pulled before release because come people didn't like the way it felt (it was a little slow and "springy", but it is VERY precise). I am working on something that will make everybody happy. Dave has a copy of that and I'm waiting for him to test it. It includes a somewhat radical change: gain scheduling. This is an attempt to make the copter STOP NOW when you release the stick. Basically, if you are yawing, and then return the stick to center, and it is yawing too fast (overshooting) it doubles the output from the yaw controller. I have no idea if it's going to work and haven't even flown it myself. Hopefully it's not too screwed up and just causes a crash, I don't like trying to code without testing myself, but that's the situation I'm in right now.
I did just check in a small change into trunk that is pretty simple, and targets a number of these problems. Hopefully this should be tested and go out in 2.6.1. Basically, there was a bit of code that constrained the output from the yaw controller excessively (I think) when the stick is in the middle. This prevented the copter from being able to stop yawing, and contributed greatly to the "bounce". I already got rid of this for TradHeli, and it helped a lot. So I've also gotten rid of it for all other Copters and that will get tested soon.
Now, problem number 3) is going to require a new parameter, where you rigidly set the yaw speed relation to full stick. I'd like to set the default to something that most people are happy with and won't even have to worry about that parameter. Can we get a consensus on how many rotations/second most people want? 1 rev/second? 2? 1/2?
I have a new theory about problem 2). I believe this is to a large degree, being caused by imbalanced motor torque forces. A tricopter has 2 motors turning one direction, and a 3rd motor turning opposite. This is in contrast to a TradHeli, where all the rotor torque is in a single direction.
Helicopters have an issue where, when you jam the throttle up (collective pitch), there's a strong yaw created. We have already fixed this for the most part by using a feed-forward, where basically a little bit of opposite yaw is added according to how much collective pitch is being used. So the rudder servo actually moves at the same time as the collective pitch servos. It's pretty slick and works well.
I think Tris could benefit from something similar. However, they have another problem. The yaw reaction is constantly changing just due to the Tri trying to stabilize itself. Particullarly in the CCW/CCW/CW configuration, if you enter a roll command, the yaw reaction completely changes. So in addition to the problems of lag with the yaw servo, you have a problem where it can never settle down even if you're not trying to yaw it.
So what I would like to do, is may yaw compensation feedforward similar to the helis. Basically sum all 3 motors, or sum 2 and 4 and then subtract Motor 1, depending on the configuration. Multiply that by a parameter, which feeds forward into the yaw controller.
What do you guys think, is this an extra step that will be too confusing?
Wow, nothing?
Yessss !
Since no one dare to answer, this will be an over-enthusiastic reply. (Did I mention I was one of your biggest fan ? :-)
First of all, thank you so much for the yaw fix in your git-clone. I tried the "alternate-yaw" method in 2.6, which I found quite precise but delayed and slow as hell. I'm currently flying your code with the gain scheduling, and so far so awesome. I can see the tail servo moving to prevent the overshoot, and it is really efficient doing exactly that. I quickly dialed in the rate P and stab P, which give me a slow and steady rotation with a low stick deflection, and about 1.5 turn/sec at full stick. I can confirm that all the issues listed on the first post are gone. I feel really happy the way it is (but pushing boundaries, 2 turns/s will seems attractive to me ;).
On my tricopter (700kv motors, 11x48props, all turning in the same direction) the throttle does not induce any noticeable yaw, even while punched hard at takeoff. I have however noticed a trend to drift slightly and steadily, then to correct smoothly the heading every 10 sec or so when the rudder stick remain centered for a long time. Will try to disable the compass and/or record Tlog for my next flight.
At last, the yaw isn't perfectly axial (the tail tend to drop slightly and the roll may bounce very slightly) but with good PIDs, that's only happening at high yawing speed.
To conclude, your latest fix made a world of difference, even if there is some room for improvement. I'm strongly in favor of pushing your code through the MP repo, for the tricopters at least. If you have something to try, feel free to contact me. Thank you very much for your awesome code.
Will try to upload logs and/or video ASAP.
Jazztech, thanks for your comments! Glad to see somebody has tried this!
About the slow steady yaw error with centered stick, I'd really love to see some logs on that. I really need the flash logs with PID logging enabled, and the set Ch6 Tuning to Stab_Yaw_P or any yaw term, which will make the PID log the yaw stuff.
I suspect what you are seeing there is actually compass calibration problems, but I'll need more data.
As for the "not perfectly axial" comment, is this a yaw problem? Or are you saying that your Tri bobbles in pitch and roll when spinning fast? That could be a bigger problem with the stability of the roll/pitch, especially at high turn rates. One thing that might be possible is if the Yaw servo is moving faster than the motors can respond to the required thrust changes. For example, if you stab the yaw, the motor moves over a lot, decreasing thrust on the tail. The motor needs to speed up to make more thrust to compensate, but it can only respond once the tail has started dropping.
Really the only way to solve that problem is some feed-forward. Not sure if there is any or not, I'd have to look.
Hi !
Sorry for the delay, Its family time, out of tricopter's reach ;)
I agree on the compass calibration problem, since the heading displayed by the mission planner is steadily shifting when the tri is on the ground. Tried to manually enter declination, used tlog and auto calibration without much success for now. The platform being compact, isolating the magnetometer from power sources is proving difficult (all power wires are shielded or twisted). Had to set AHRS_Yaw back to 1. The axial problem seems to be cg-related. When using multiples batteries, the cg is shifted forward and the yaw become quite ugly. Can be solved or at least minimized by placing the batteries closer to the tail. The tri also bobbles in pitch and roll when spinning fast, but that's not much an issue to me. Will send dataflash logs with PID logging enabled next week when I will be back home (if it stop raining).
Thank you so much for your awesome piece of code.
Do you really have your Stab_Yaw_I and Rate_Yaw_I as Zero? I'm surprised it flies well at all like that, and it's entirely possible that is the cause of your yaw wandering. Try setting Rate_Yaw_I to 0.010 to 0.040 as a starting point, see if that helps. I am surprised you don't have the same problem with the yaw drifting to one side and not stopping, as Glenn has.
I think with this code, it will be really important to have Rate_Yaw_I set properly. I might guess that the only reason this worked for you is a happy chance where your mechanical linkage is offset just the right amount to allow it to work.
That Rate_Yaw_I is very important, as it is what allows the whole thing to find center and come to stop, which is what allows it to then lock onto a heading.
Yes, I disabled both stab and rate yaw I. In an attempt to make the damn thing works with the main trunk firmware, I adjusted the mechanical linkage so that when the servo is centered and throttle is applied, the tail motor has the right offset to stop the rotation induced by the prop torque, as instructed in a post about tricopter's yaw problem. Even with this adjustment, the tri drift a bit when no yaw order is given for a long period of time, as described above. I blamed the magnetometer calibration for that, but I don't had the time to try it with mag disabled (it has been raining like mad the last few days here in Paris, and I had some preparative to do before family trip, but I will investigate the case and send dataflash logs and tlogs as soon as I can when returning home). Will try to add some rate_yaw I too. Thanks for the input !
Oh, very interesting stuff. I love it when my theories prove to be true!
Definitely throw some Rate_Yaw_I in there. You may find the slight wandering is because it's zero. That was the revelation to me that started this whole thing for me. I had horrible yaw control, assumed it was the Mag the whole time. Then I looked carefully at my logs and realized that it KNEW that it was off-target but just wasn't trying very hard to stop it!
Hi Robert, thanks for putting this time in on this. I didn't see this discussion until now. Your suggestion of replacing my yaw servo with a faster one (0.08sec) seems to have solved my yaw oscillation issue (or reduced it to a level where it's barely noticeable at least) and also it didn't seem that it would incorrectly yaw the wrong way with a small amount of stick input either, but I have only had one quick flight since making the change, so it could still be there.
I'm keen to try your new code with the gain scheduling. Is this the branch I should be checking out?
Right, so I've just had a few flights with this. I've compiled the source from Robert's WIP2 branch.
First up I was running my new hextronik d-mg16 servo, and it seemed to hold yaw pretty much correctly, however I gave it some full throttle punches, and it spun around the yaw axis making me think that the torque from the tail motor stalled the servo out.
Then I replaced the d-mg16 with my old bms-385dmax, and full throttle punches now don't cause the yaw to spin, however the original issues of the yaw oscillating, and the yaw moving the wrong way in response to light stick input one direction returned.
I then added #define ALTERNATIVE_YAW_MODE ENABLED to my apm_config.h and recompiled, and that has given me more precise yaw control, although at full stick the yaw response is still a little slow, do I need to do anything else to enable the gain scheduling?
Glenn, just got back from ~5 days of being outside of comm-range. ;)
When you use the code in my branch, are you sure that you are using the Yaw Control branch? The master branch in my clone is basically trunk, (though it's usually somewhat behind the latest). But you need to change to Yaw Control branch and work with that.
I think you're using the wrong branch, because ALTERNATIVE_YAW_MODE probably shouldn't even compile in my branch.
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text: 47-year-old Edward William Bright allegedly stabbed his brother repeatedly following an argument over which silverware to use for dinner! Yes, that's right! Deputies were called to Edward's home in South Carolina where they found his brother bleeding. Apparently this is what happened -- the argument over silverware led Edward to grab a steak knife and stab his brother multiple times in his torso. Fortunately none of the injuries were life-threatening.


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The Death and Life of the Great American School System
by Diane Ravitch
(Basic Books, 2010)
Reviewed by Sarah Schumacher
Secondary Literacy & Social Studies (WA)
TLN New Millennium Initiative
Why would a powerful, successful advocate for what amounted to a revolution in our education system completely change her mind about the initiatives she once supported? And what happens when she does? What do we do next? Those were the questions on my mind as I picked up Diane Ravitch's newest book The Death and Life of the Great American School System. I had heard of Diane Ravitch and her ideas many times in my career and had heard rumblings about her so-called 'mea culpa', and so was excited to find out what her motivations were, what she had seen that so completely changed her mind.
There are no sacred cows in this book; Ravitch pulls no punches. She systematically goes after many of the initiatives and policies that have been held up in the last years as cure-alls for the ills of our education system: testing, tenure, charter schools, Teach for America, vouchers. . .the list goes on. As she says late in the book, "American education has a long history of infatuation with fads and ill-considered ideas." As educators, we see so many initiatives rolling through that are promised to be panaceas that we often know will lead to nothing. So it's refreshing to hear someone speaking so candidly and with so much depth. On the other hand, as you read the book you're left wondering what else is there? If these things aren't "magic feathers," then what should we be doing instead? We definitely learn the 'why' of her transformation, but not so much the 'what next?'
Her first chapter, "What I Learned About School Reform," outlines Ravitch's career as an educational researcher and writer and subsequent ascension to the position of assistant secretary of education in the George H.W. Bush administration. One thing I respected immediately about her arguments is that she doesn't let herself off the hook for the role she played. She admits that, "I began 'seeing like a state,' looking at schools and teachers and students from an altitude of 20,000 feet and seeing them as objects to be moved around by big ideas and great plans." The chapter then chronicles her change of heart as she realizes the initiatives proliferating education are not getting the results they should. She ends by beginning her argument that in the era of NCLB education was beginning to be viewed as an institution that could, and should, be run as if it were a private, for-profit enterprise. However, she emphasizes that she does not have clear alternatives of her own. More about that later.
The second chapter, "Hijacked! How the Standards Movement Turned Into the Testing Movement," continues to set the context for NCLB. It is in this chapter that you learn three things about Diane Ravitch. First, she strongly dislikes NCLB and all its progeny: testing, so-called accountability, choice, etc.. Second, she appreciated the 1983 report A Nation at Risk and the prescription it gave the nation's education system. Third, and most of all, she likes strong standards and curriculum, believing that they lead to more well-rounded, deeper thinking students. Take note, because that's about the only thing she appears to like in the entirety of the book.
The book then becomes a whirlwind of detail in a House-That-Jack-Built layered style of argumentation. In other words: She really makes her case. The third, fourth and fifth chapters tell the stories of three different school districts and how fundamental changes to their organizations and policies in the mode of NCLB-era ideas led to uncertain outcomes. Those uncertain outcomes are a theme throughout the rest of the book. It seems that for every initiative there are a thousand studies, all of them reaching a different conclusion.
The next three chapters form the crux of her argument: "NCLB: Measure and Punish", "Choice: The Story of an Idea", and "The Trouble with Accountability." In these chapters she outlines, detail by detail (by detail) the case against No Child Left Behind and its policies. In "What Would Mrs. Ratliff Do?", she talks about the growing movement to link teacher evaluations to test scores and wonders if her own favorite teacher, Mrs. Ratliff, would be considered a great teacher today, she of the red marking pen and nineteenth-century poetry. Sadly, she probably wouldn't.
Finally, the next to last chapter, "The Billionaire Boys' Club" is aimed directly at those large foundations and endowments that, Ravitch argues, are driving education reform with their own agendas instead of seeking out innovators already in the field. She talks at length about the Gates Foundation and its small schools agenda and how the Broad Foundation is supporting the movement to turn school administration into a business. This seems to be the core of her argument, that the more the powers that be have treated education as a business, the more detrimental it has been to our nation's students. She makes this argument thoroughly and leaves no question marks about any of the major factors impacting education today.
Given that, what was unexpected for me was that there are many questions left unanswered at the end of the book. I finally reached the chapter I'd been waiting for, "Lessons Learned," and found it pretty unsatisfying. Throughout this shortest of chapters, she uses the refrain "Our schools will not improve if…" to share what she thinks should be the priorities of our education system. She brings up national standards and common curriculum and talks about what the goals of testing and teacher evaluation should be, but gives very few specifics.
I guess I'd liken it to hearing a firebrand speaker and getting passionately excited about the cause only to be given a tin sword with which to go start the revolution. We need much more than lofty generalities to fix what is broken about our system. In all, though, I found this book incredibly well-argued, thought-provoking and interesting and would recommend it to anyone who wants to know the other side of the story of education in the last decade.
Sarah Schumacher is a secondary literacy coach and social studies coordinator in the Edmonds, Washington School District. She's a member of the New Millennium Initiative teacher team exploring teaching policy issues in her state.


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We quickly mention a bunch of results of WhyDay, including releases of Shoes, Hackety Hack, Camping, Kext, and code golf in Ruby, as well as our standard fare of interesting projects like Rid, MongoMatic, a blog post on writing your own daemons in Ruby, an IRC bot framework, Swimlanes (a git visualization tool from Jim Weirich), and of course, the Ruby 1.9.2 release.
This episode is sponsored by New Relic. New Relic gives you performance monitoring, tracking, and reporting of your web applications.
ActionParameter, Purgatory, Promise.rb, Sharing Rails sessions, JRuby 1.7.9
What does Spring have to do with Rails 4.1, Rails security news, a few cool tips like pundit, pry rescue and RASK, good advice for upgrading to capistrano 3, and the plan to sunset bundler all in this RubyLoco-powered Ruby5.
This week we watch, lint, memoize, error handle, say hello to and write more idiomatic Ruby.
Ruby fixes a heap overflow, Rack::Attack protects your app from abusive clients, a proposal for changing Rails Session Storage, learn about Rake File Tasks and Demystify the Ruby GC.


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Art Décor' Plate BUI1
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Art Décor' Plate BUI1. Excellent Condition! YE15FI. Measuring 16 diameter this Oriental modern design Art plate has a hanging hook on the back; and also comes with a matte black plate display for the option of hard top exhibiting. Exquisite hand-detailed art with intricate, inlaid mosaic designs in mother of pearl, abalone shell, egg shell, sand, and Leaf detailing. Each plate is a one of a kind work of art. Adding a touch of décor' the geometric shapes and seasonal colorings from shades of pale yellows, greens, and blacks are a natural showcase. Thank you for viewing this lot. We are always adding new inventory and new auctions, so check back often. We appreciate your business and support! Enjoy the auction - Seized Assets Auctioneers - SAA."


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The cab of a tractor-trailer traveling on N.C. 24, hauling beans from Cargill, was destroyed Friday morning when it caught fire, the Fayetteville Fire Department said.
The fire was reported at 7:15 a.m. near Plymouth Street, Battalion Chief Richard Bradshaw said.
The driver, whose name was not available, was not injured, Bradshaw said.
The fire is believed to have resulted from a mechanical problem, Bradshaw said.
The truck was registered to a business in Garland, Bradshaw said.
The fire slowed traffic on N.C. 24, Bradshaw said.
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We dodged a major bullet with tropical storm Isaac down here in South Florida. As with any developing Hurricane, you can never be too careful when it is coming your way. Scott and I spent the better part of the weekend prepping for the "Hurricane" and that included putting my every-day grills in our shed. The shed was packed tight like a game of tetris- a mix of outdoor furniture, grills, and random yard art.
Suffice it to say, I had to use the oven as the "feeder bands" were pelting us with wind and rain. Fully provisioned for the power to go out a few days, here is what I came up with using some basic ingredients we had on hand.
I love savory tarts, and let's face it- anything is good in a buttery pie crust. I push the easy button and buy refrigerated (store bought) pie crusts. With a little magic, a store bought pie crust can turn into a sophisticated dinner or dessert with little fuss. Paired with Aidell's chicken sausage (which is precooked), this turns into a satisfying yet surprisingly healthy dinner. Plus, this is a great way to use up those ripe summer tomatoes!
Preheat your oven to 375 degrees. Line a cookie sheet with aluminum foil. Next, spray the foil with non stick spray (so the pie crust does not stick). Slice the tomato and sausage. Lay out the pie crust on the pan and add the garlic. Next, layer tomatoes, sausage, and parmesan in the middle of the pie crust, leaving room
on the edges to fold the sides over onto the contents of the pie, but not completely covering. Drizzle olive oil and add salt and pepper onto the contents before folding the crust over.
Bake, for 20 minutes or until the edges begin to brown and the inner contents start to get warm and bubbly. I served mine with an arugula salad for a light yet satisfying dinner.
No related posts.
This looks good Robyn, that crispy crust and roasted sausage sound great. I have some chicken sausage and I needed some ideas like this.
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Posted: Feb 14, 2013 4:10 PM by Associated Press
BIG BEAR LAKE, Calif. (AP) - Officials say burned remains found in a California mountain cabin have been positively identified as fugitive former police officer Christopher Dorner.
San Bernardino County sheriff's spokeswoman Jodi Miller said Thursday that the identification was made through Dorner's dental records.
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dkb Press Release | Holistic Fitness: Instructor Brings Russian Kettlebell Training to Santa Fe
Contact: Keira Newton (505) 501-0180
For more information visit: www.dkbfitness.com
*Images available upon request*
*Holistic Fitness: Instructor Brings Russian Kettlebell Training to Santa Fe*
SANTA FE – Can a Russian military workout regime help busy Americans get fit? Santa Fe resident Keira Newton was determined to find out when she started training with a kettlebell.
Newton discovered that the kettlebell is not a trendy fitness device – it has been used in Russia since the 18th century. What looks like a cannonball with a handle is actually a cast-iron weightlifting tool introduced in the United States in 2001 by former Russian military instructor Pavel Tsatsouline. Kettlebells range in weight from 6 to 106 pounds and are used in exercises including swings, squats and presses. A brief kettlebell workout involves the whole body with legs, hips, abdomen, back, arms and shoulders working in coordinated movement.
"I started with kettlebell training at the outset of my second pregnancy in 2005," Newton said. "I had a nursing infant that I couldn´t leave for long stretches. The kettlebell allowed me to get an intense, 15-minute workout in my living room and still be within five feet of my baby. I was also able to maintain my workout schedule into the eighth month of my pregnancy."
The kettlebell workout design favors a holistic approach rather than the linear, isolated movements of traditional weight lifting. Newton quickly took to the kettlebell workout's focus on strength, cardiovascular exercise and flexibility. After recuperating from her pregnancy she picked up her kettlebell again.
Two years, and several pounds and waist sizes later, Newton earned certification as a Russian Kettlebell Challenge (RKC) certified instructor. She now leads groups of men and women from all age groups in training sessions and weekly classes.
*About Keira Newton*
Keira is one of just a few RKC certified instructors in the state of New Mexico. She has the skill set and training experience to communicate the fundamentals of kettlebell training. She continues to invest in professional development and will complete her advanced, level two training in June of 2008.
She is a certified Feldenkrais(R) practitioner. Feldenkrais(R) is a form of bodywork that teaches the "functional integration" of the whole self to support "awareness through movement." She has worked at *McGhee-Smithback Physical Therapy* since 2001.


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Posted: Feb 1, 2013 11:18 AM by MTN News
HELENA - Thomas Verhasselt of Sidney has claimed a $10,000 Hot Lotto prize with a ticket at Reynold's Market. He matched five Hot Lotto numbers for his $10,000 win.
"I usually don't add the Sizzler, but I will from now on," said Thomas. Had he added Sizzler for an extra $1, he would have multiplied his win to $30,000.
The drawing was held on Saturday and he went back to Reynold's Market to check his ticket. The store clerk informed him that the store couldn't pay out a win that big. "They told me I won $10,000," said Thomas. He hadn't known until then what his ticket was worth.
Thomas currently doesn't have any plans for his Lottery winnings. The Hot Lotto jackpot is estimated at $1.25 million for Saturday's drawing.


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By Gregory Phillips Staff writer
Cleland Ice Rink on Fort Bragg will close for the summer, and the Airborne & Special Operations Museum downtown is closing four days a week.
The reduced museum hours are due to sequestration budget cuts, but the ice rink closure was called a business decision.
"It's not an inexpensive endeavor to run an ice rink in the South," Fort Bragg spokesman Ben Abel said.
The decision was prompted by a drop off in patronage and revenue during the summer, Abel said.
The rink will be closed April 27 through Sept. 15.
"We do recognize it's very important to the ice skating community in the Sandhills region," Abel said.
Abel also confirmed the "fiscal constraints" the museum director cited in the limited hours were the result of "cost saving measures" the Army is imposing because of sequestration.
The museum is now closed Monday to Thursday. It's open 10 a.m. to 5 p.m. Friday and Saturday and noon to 5 p.m. Sunday.
The shuttle between the main post and the Linden Oaks military housing area in Harnett County will be cut as of Monday, also because of sequestration, it was announced Wednesday.
Col. Kevin Arata, a spokesman for the 18th Airborne Corps and Fort Bragg, moved to dampen speculation about other possible cuts. In a statement, he said there are no plans to furlough teachers at schools on post.
"The uncertainty over sequestration-related reductions of services, and the potential for furloughs, is generating expected and understandable speculation and rumor, that if left unchecked, will cause unwarranted concern for Fort Bragg's service members, families, civilian workforce and retirees," he said in the statement.
Furloughs for thousands of civilian employees are on hold while their effect is examined. The Pentagon announced Wednesday that civilian employees will be forced to take 14 days of unpaid furlough, a figure that is lower than the 22 days that had been expected.
Arata said every concrete decision has been made public.
"We will not, however, engage in speculation about decisions that have not yet been made," he said.
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Skype 4.0 Beta 1 for Windows initial release
I'm proud to announce that we have released a new major version of Skype.
Welcome to Skype 4.0. This newly released beta version offers a completely re-designed user interface with a full-screen Skype experience. Find out more on the main Skype blog.
We've released this Beta a little earlier than normal because we know it's a big change, and we want to get your thoughts. We'll spend the whole summer listening to your feedback and making changes so we can perfect the final version. Because we're releasing it early, a few little things aren't available in today's version so stay tuned for updates. Please also remember, as it's a Beta there may be a few hiccups that need correcting.
Download and try out Skype 4.0 Beta 1 for Windows.
We are keen to hear what you think about the new Skype 4.0 Beta 1 version so please give us your feedback. As well as the special feedback survey we have in place for this release, keep an eye on our community pages and discuss it there or leave reports on any issues you may find on our public issue tracker, Jira.
Technical details of the newly released baby 18.104.22.168 are:
* feature: Calling and conference calling
* feature: Instant messaging (IM) and group instant messaging (group IM)
* feature: DTMF Tones
* feature: Video calling
* feature: Contact profiles
* feature: Contact list
* feature: Conversations list
* feature: IM, conference call and group participants lists
* feature: File sending (including multi-file sending)
* feature: Shop
* feature: Directory
* feature: Audio device configuration
* feature: SMS
* feature: Welcome screen
* feature: Import contacts
* feature: See what's new
* feature: Incoming call alerts
* feature: Call phones
* feature: Menus
* feature: Contact requests
* feature: Partner tab
* feature: Automatic upgrades
* feature: Presence icons
* feature: Flashing alerts in your taskbar
* feature: Extras Manager
* feature: Detaching conversation from mainform
* Feature missing from 3.8: Call quality feedback indicator
* Feature missing from 3.8: Skype Prime
* Feature missing from 3.8: Linking of MySpaceIM with Skype and Skype accounts
* Feature missing from 3.8: Ability to turn alerts off
* Feature missing from 3.8: Accessibility (keyboard navigation and screen reader functionality)
* Feature missing from 3.8: Saving groups
* Feature missing from 3.8: History
* Feature missing from 3.8: Video in mood
* Feature missing from 3.8: View Outlook contacts in my Contact list
* Feature missing from 3.8: Call transfer
* Feature missing from 3.8: Contact groups
* Feature missing from 3.8: Creating new Shared Groups
* Feature missing from 3.8: Sending contacts
* Feature missing from 3.8: Send Money
* Feature missing from 3.8: Skypecasts
* Feature missing from 3.8: Alerts (eBay, Paypal, 411)
* Feature missing from 3.8: Public IM
* Feature missing from 3.8: Auto redial
* Feature missing from 3.8: IRC chat style
* Feature missing from 3.8: Speed dial
32 thoughts on "Skype 4.0 Beta 1 for Windows initial release"
tris.hussey said 5 years ago
Been dying to try this new beta, but I keep getting 1603 errors on Vista. I've tried the fixes posted in the forums for previous versions, but ugh.
Haven't given up, but looking for something creative.
braydencorleone said 5 years ago
Looks awesome, will bug fix updates be released frequently? Is it stable enough to use in a business environment? Will installed next to the version I have now so if I have issues I can use the old for awhile?
budnyatsky said 5 years ago
I really liked new Skype 4, but I have some suggestions focused on new GUI:
1. Add ability to close/hide a right-side blue panel when there is no any active chat, because now Skype takes a lot of monitor's area and it not so usefull! I prefere to not waste a monitor's area without any reason.
2. Add ability to set a size of input message field by default in IM window. I prefere to see a big input field and not field of 2 lines. And also, to set this parameter ones and for ALL my contacts and not pass by contact-contact and set this value manually.
doug.cummins said 5 years ago
I like the new Skype beta, but will not use it untill Skype Casts are incorprated back into it. Works well with XP, but they have left out some features I like.
budnyatsky said 5 years ago
Is it possible to add support of ICQ/XMPP/WLM standarts of IM? It will allow to Skype a all-in-one IM solution number one in the world!
caswallon2 said 5 years ago
Oh Lord a major update! Just what me and my on-line gf needed! Since we "Upgraded" to 3.8 we have NEVER had a black telephone icon indicating a clear line. Pic quality and sound has been.. (Well lets not go there)
But looking at all the features you say this beta hasn't got from 3.8 I think we'll carry on regardless. You have not implemented far too many things we find just so useful.
I'll check back to see if you have come to your senses and released a fuller featured Beta later.
www.prettymay.net said 5 years ago
Skype 4.0 beta DOES NOT support mutilple Skype instances launched under different Windows user accounts any more.
This feature disabled in 4.0Beta is very useful for many business users who have more than one Skype accounts, and want
to use them at the same time, it is also killing Skype based call center software like PrettyMay which requires mutilple
Skype instances launched to support concurrent lines.I have reported this on jira at: https://developer.skype.com/jira/browse/SCW-773
pipi_karma said 5 years ago
braydencorleone: Does it mean when you wrote that the new skype does not support multiple instancies of the same account, that I will NOT be able anymore (until is fixed) to log in with my standalone skype DECT cordless telephone at the same time like on my Desktop PC?
Like this on the link -
teimi_ch said 5 years ago
It looks great, but i have to give "budnyatsky" right.
It takes to much space on the monitor!
So it will be great if it would be possible to close/hide the "blue panel"
Is it possible to make the "blue panle" swapable on right or left side? -
mu_mini32 said 5 years ago
installed under Vista Ultimate SP1 32bit version
Skype 4 beta now can recognise DV camera (SONY HDR-HC3) and web camera list shows that DV camera along with regular web cam. But even I select DV camera, preview does not display whatever DV camera captures.Is there any way to make DV camera work as video input under Skype 4?
jenmi7 said 5 years ago
In Skype (Beta) Version 188.8.131.52, the bug described in
is fixed. Congratulations and thanks! -
jenmi7 said 5 years ago
In Skype (Beta) Version 22.214.171.124, the bug described in
https://developer.skype.com/jira/browse/SCW-24 is fixed. Congratulations and thanks! -
lionheart247 said 5 years ago
Well, I guess I am not the only one who thinks: "I HATE version 4.0″. Please let me stay with Skype 3.5 since its the best version for windows. Just the interface of the linux is even superior to 3.5. If you are unwillingly to slim skype down, then please offer an "light" version with just the communication capabilities:
– Stable phone-calls. Version 3.8. is crashing about 15 times a day on my maschine!
– Easy cheat with support for group chats (Version 3.5 and linux 2.0 shine in this discipline).
– High-Quality Video-Support (this is what the linux version is missing to qualify for the best skype ever!)As some other people mentioned, the huge information area on the left takes far to much space and is higly distracting. Its good only to see the time in the country you are calling (which is an awesome feature). The new integration of the chat window is THE WORST IDEA IN HISTORY OF SOFTWARE! Even if detaching the panel, why there is a huge "phone" button. Rather use the space for an bigger input area. The messages I post are not just 2 lines long (10 lines might be sufficent, or even better scalable by the user?).
So, whom can I talk to concering this "complaint" ?
frederick.tegtmeier05 said 5 years ago
I am running windows server 2008 standard x64 2Gb Ram Celeron Dual core and so far I can use the 4.0 beta without it crashing. I will report again as I use it more…. so far so good… BTW do not use compatibility in server 2008 – IT WILL CRASH!
luizmello123 said 5 years ago
I have a Linksys CIT-200 Skypephone and is impossible to make video calls in Skype 4 only voice calls. So, I have uninstalled the beta version and I hope you make a better interface in the future, you cannot forget that many and many users have a Skype fone.
eljoud said 5 years ago
I think what we need in global communication software is the ability to make calls and video conferences in regions where the internet connection still very low and telephone calls very expensive like in Mauritania.
rodrigomurtax said 5 years ago
It is a big waste of monitor… please, let me close the right side…
paladin252 said 5 years ago
i like the new beta, but i agree with others that we should have the option to hide the right side. i like it set up like a standard IM client. also, i would love to see instant messages pop up in possibly a tabbed window instead of inside the skype window itself. also, i am not sure why, but the skypeout numbers in your buddy list are now green, and makes it hard to quickly differentiate them from your online skype contacts. having them be blue worked well before. thanks for the beta of whats to come though, seems to be working fine for me so far on 32bit vista home premium!
daraghsg said 5 years ago
Until the screen real estate is able to be changed I can't use it – sorry.
marcuswilliamson said 5 years ago
All previous Beta versions of Skype have been completely functional with respect to the previous versions. This Skype version 4 Beta has significant functionality missing.
With this in mind, this version should therefore be labelled a "technology preview" and not a "Beta".
When will a fully-functional version 4 Beta be available?
paltry said 5 years ago
Why skype is not working on conference video calling….
its very necessary that if i am in a conference call with few people,i cant send or receive video in the conference…
if 3 of our family members are at different places and want to see each other at the same time…there is no way to do this….kindly put this feature in the skype 4 version…PLEEEASE…
i occasionally solved this problem by having voice conf on skype and video on yahoo msgr…but ymsgr really sucks with just 1 frame updates in 10sec…or sometime even worse…but skype vodeo just rocks…but its sad that its not available in voie conf calls…
kindly look into this..
paganpat said 5 years ago
I think I'm going to switch back. my 85-year-old mother uses the speed dial and it doesn't display it on on on my Skype user list with this new version.
yujengyun said 5 years ago
I don't understand why the new version of Skype don't have Skypecast. As a user of Skype, I use the fee-charging feature of Skype and Skypecasts as well. I use the fee-charging feature to call my friends who are all over the world. However, I can't call them anytime because of the time difference, but sometimes I have the urge to have a conversation with someone. And the Skypecast feature has helped me to meet my needs and I was able to meet new people and make new friends. I can't believe that Skype is getting rid of the Skypecast feature. I strongly recommend that you guys don't get rid of skypecast in the newer version on Skype.
joshblaine said 5 years ago
Please make skype able to run as a service. Thank you.
ati-tommyjordan said 5 years ago
Just thought I'd share.
HOW TO REDUCE THE CHAT SCREEN SIZE: I do agree the new GIANT screen sucks. Click on View from upper menu and choose "Compact"…. now you're back to your old style IM interface.
http://carolinaregion.blogspot.com/2008/12/beta-testing-skype-40.html -
dave_lib said 5 years ago
Skype needs to be able to be run as a service. Based on comments above, I'd agree that screen interface needs to be modifiable to be a straightforward simple presentation that takes up a minimum of screen realestate. Thanks
urmas.euroland said 5 years ago
Please add irc chat style again.
dnr_ron said 5 years ago
This is NOT a beta release. It is alpha release and a poor one at that. Bring in the added features that attracted me and my business associates to purchase accounts. We need speed-dial and multiple instances. And I need to be able to log into Skype on my desktop as well as on my U3 stick at the same time. Frankly, I removed Skype 4 as soon as I noticed the high ratio of absenteeism. I also informed my customers to stay away. Sorry… you'll learn as all other software companies have (except brain-dead Microsoft) that screwing with what got you there will quickly deal you a deathblow. * Suicide IS against the law *
smith.adam.c said 5 years ago
I installed Skype 4.0 on my windows 7 beta machine. The new skype installs great and works…until I try and use it with my CIT200. I don't know if this is a skype 4.0, win7, or linksys driver problem. Needless to say, I uninstalled skype 4.0 and installed 3.8. My CIT-200 now works with skype. Except that I have to load CIT200 manually at startup, it doesn't automatically load as before in XP. Since there are really very few skype cordless phones available, and I believe the CIT is one of the most popular it would be nice if it worked really well with Skype!
jaymze_gazov said 5 years ago
Everthing in this new interface is large and distracting – while the actual chat boxes are designed and placed such that it takes effort to concentrate on it…the design is similar to what would be done in a marketing application where the information content of the page is secondary to product advertising. The icons are inferior to those of the previous version. Is it possible to revert back to the visual style of the previous interface? I am interested to know the rationale for the current design…it certainly violates most all of the design precepts that I use successfully in my professional career. Again – can one revert to the previous interface ? Thank you, James
rimbo3167 said 4 years ago
Hi since downloading Skype 188.8.131.52 i find it works well with my faithful windows XP except that is for the few misables which you have already mentioned in a earlier blog.One small point, i would like to have the small icon back on the start bar which as dissappeared for some reason and i can not get it back.
jellyjar said 4 years ago
we were doing a video conference this morning with 4 of us and there was no video just voice. one of the members in the conference call said he was charged for voice call. i was under the impression that video conference was free. how many people can be in a video conference at the same time?


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Security Leaks Lead to Finger Pointing
The leaks of top secret material by the NSA contractor Edward Snowden have been making waves around the world. Simon Bates reports why British politicians are pointing fingers at the newspaper at the forefront of printing the stories.
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Online Spy Games :: NSA Enters Our Virtual Worlds
American and British intelligence operations have been spying on gamers across the world, media outlets reported, saying that the world's most powerful espionage agencies sent undercover agents into virtual universes to monitor our online fantasies.
Big Tech Companies Lash Out at Government Snooping
Silicon Valley is escalating pressure on President Barack Obama to curb the U.S. government surveillance programs that vacuum personal information off the Internet and threaten the technology industry's financial livelihood.
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Fully 20 percent of U.S. adults become rich for parts of their lives, wielding outsize influence on America's economy and politics. This little-known group may pose the biggest barrier to reducing the nation's income inequality.
Frustrated India Investors Cheer Opposition Gains
India's benchmark Sensex stock index surged 1.6 percent Monday to a record high after official results confirmed the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party trounced the ruling Congress Party in four heartland states, including the capital New Delhi.
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Skill-building Lectures
Skill Building Lectures are a unique chance for you to build extra credentials for your resume or simply learn about topics that interest you. Normally attending these sorts of lectures would cost significant sums of money, but they are free for iLEAD participants.
These lectures take various formats and are presented by both academics from the University and external experts. We ask our presenters to make the skill-building lectures as hands on and practical as possible with real life take home skills!
The lectures are based on the three iLEAD program themes:
- Leadership in an International Context
- International Awareness
- Community, Diversity and Pluralism
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- The Psychology of Effective Leadership
- Climate Change and the Hungry Tide
- Australia and the Middle East: Why 140 years of engagement?
- Emotional Intellegience in Leadership
To find out more about upcoming lectures, see the folder titled 'Skill-building Lectures' on Blackboard.


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Critical Essays
Jack Kerouac American Literature Analysis
The power of Kerouac's writing comes from two distinct sources. The one that has been recognized by most commentators was Kerouac's extremely incisive, essentially instinctive ability to register the first crest of a wave of cultural change that was about to break over the American continent. The other, less accepted source is the solid background in literature that Kerouac brought to his earliest work. The story of how Kerouac typed, at about a hundred words a minute, the entire manuscript of On the Road onto a huge roll of paper in twenty days is well known, but during the time that the book remained in manuscript form, Kerouac revised it with care and diligence, even becoming close friends with Robert Giroux. Kerouac recalled that long before he began work on The Town and the City, his first book (which covered his early life in Lowell), at theage of 11 I wrote whole little novels in nickel notebooks. . . . The first serious writing took place after I read about Jack London at the age of 17. . . . At 18 I read Hemingway and Saroyan. . . . Then I read Tom Wolfe. . . . Then I read Joyce. . . . Then came Dostoevsky. Finally I entered a romantic phase with Rimbaud and Blake. . . . At the age of 24 I was groomed for the Western idealistic concept of letters from reading Goethe's Dichtung und Wahrheit.
The leap of genius that Kerouac made was to join his substantial, primarily self-directed education with a sense of several...
(The entire section is 2687 words.)
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Source: Magill's Survey of American Literature, Revised Edition, ©2006 Salem Press, Inc.. All Rights Reserved.


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Optional: American Racing 2.5" Axle-Back with 4" Tips


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COLORADO SPRINGS, COLO. -- Emmett Andrew Larsen was arrested last Thursday on charges of Sexual Assault on a Child, by one in a position of trust.
After a 10-year-old girl reported to Colorado Springs police that Larsen rubbed her back and vaginal area.
According to arrest documents, the first incident happend back in December of 2011, the litle girl reported sitting on Larsen's lap when he started rubbing her back before moving his hands over her shoulder and rubbing her bare breasts under her shirt.
The second time happened when the child and suspect were sitting on a couch, Larsen again began to rub her back before moving his hands around to her sides and ultimately down the front of her pants.
The third incident happened when the little girl was sitting on Larsen's lap on a recliner, he again begain to rub her back and moved his hands onto her breasts.
In the affidavit, the young girl said she had told her mother about the touching after the first two incidents occurred.
The second 10-year-old girl said Larsen did not touch her inappropriately but confirmed he would rub her back and tickle her neck.
In an interview with police 77-year-old Emmett Larsen admited to touching one of the girls on the breasts and vagina for a 2-year period and said he became sexually aroused.
He also admitted to doing the same to the other girl saying it was not intentional.


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Dedicated by the Jacobs and Chill Families in Memory of Harold and Pearl JacobsDora Bas Rivka Silver O'H
602. Possession is Also a Crime: The prohibition against keeping short-changing weights and measures
Rabbi Jack Abramowitz
It should go without saying that if a shopkeeper has weights and measures that cheat customers out of what they have rightfully purchased, they may not be used. What may be surprising is that we're not even allowed to hang onto them. The reason for this is so that we should not be tempted into using them. If we get rid of them, we can't be tempted into shorting others on their purchases.
This mitzvah applies to men and women in all times and places. Even if the weights and measures are never used, a person is in violation of this mitzvah merely for retaining the dishonest equipment. This mitzvah is discussed in the Talmud in tractate Baba Basra on pages 88a-90b. It is codified in the Shulchan Aruch in Choshen Mishpat 231. This mitzvah is #272 of the 365 negative mitzvos in the Rambam's Sefer HaMitzvos and #84 of the 194 negative mitzvos that can be observed today as listed in the Chofetz Chaim's Sefer HaMitzvos HaKatzar.


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I stayed in a triple room (bunk-style, double on bottom, twin on top) w/ my 2 girlfriends in what appeared to be low season, as no complaints of noise. We enjoyed ourselves so much that we decided to book again on our return from Gothenberg. They have very comfy, clean beds and warm, spacious bathrooms...these were our only requirements as... More
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This ground-breaking resource demonstrates how genetic knowledge can influence our understanding of a child's behaviour and therefore inform their behavioural support plan. With expert advice and clear instructions, it shows exactly how to go about incorporating syndrome knowledge into ABA practice and start treating children with specific genetic syndromes more effectively. Eight different... more »
January 2014, Paperback: £39.99/ $65.00Keywords: adolescence, applied behaviour analysis, autism, challenging behaviour, child development, child psychology, children, communication, Down's syndrome, early intervention, intellectual disabilities, life skills, pervasive developmental disorder, social skills, special education, transitions
Merges' program is based on the concept that there are 10 hurdles that make it challenging for people with ASD to enjoy social interaction. This book guides the reader through planning, running, and assessing group sessions designed to help participants overcome these hurdles, and ultimately enjoy more independent and fulfilling lives. more »
2010, Paperback: £15.99/ $24.95Keywords: ADD, ADHD, adolescence, adults, anxiety, Asperger syndrome, autism, careers, child development, child psychology, children, communication, community care, counselling, depression, disability, education, educational psychology, emotions, employment, families, high functioning autism, mainstream education, mental health, occupational therapy, pastoral care, pervasive developmental disorder, play, PSHE, psychology, relationships, resilience, self esteem, sensory issues, social care, social skills, special education, speech and language pathology, speech and language therapy, teenagers, transitions, youthwork
Count Me In! provides practical ways of involving young people in the inclusive classroom. At its heart is a recognition of the power of getting students involved and the value this can bring to their education. It includes a host of ways to get children involved, from seeking their opinions on lessons to allowing them to have a say in school life. more »
2010, Paperback: £19.99/ $34.95Keywords: ADD, ADHD, adolescence, advocacy, Asperger syndrome, autism, challenging behaviour, children, children's rights, developmental coordination disorder, disability, Down's syndrome, dyslexia, dyspraxia, education, educational psychology, educational training, emotions, epilepsy, high functioning autism, inclusive classroom, Key Stage 2, Key Stage 3, Key Stage 4, mainstream education, nonverbal learning disabilities, pastoral care, pervasive developmental disorder, PSHE, resilience, SEAL, self esteem, sensory issues, special education, teenagers, tourettes, transitions
This book contains safe and structured role plays for working with different groups, including individuals with ASD, their teachers, caregivers, parents and peers. It provides materials for custom-making role plays to suit the specific needs of participants and photocopiable forms for tracking individual participants' skills. more »
2010, Paperback: £37.16 + VAT = £44.59/ $60.95Keywords: Asperger syndrome, autism, bullying, challenging behaviour, dramatherapy, educational training, high functioning autism, inclusive classroom, pervasive developmental disorder, PSHE, social skills, special education, theatre, transitions, youthwork
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LETTER FROM ZAIRE about fighting in Zaire between the Hutus and the Tutsis and how the genocide is connected to Zaire's President Mobutu Sese Seko. In the Zairean peasant village of Mokoto, a monastery of Trappist monks was attacked by Hutus when it began harboring Zairean Tutsis who had been driven from their homes. Father Dhelo, the Zairean superior at Mokoto, took them in and soon received death threats. The Hutu militia, Hutu Power, was trying to "ethnically cleanse" a 2,000-sq.-mile area around Mokoto, with the goal of creating a more permanent base. When Father Dhelo went away on business in early May, the Hutus attacked the monastery. Father Victor Bourdeau, a French monk who lived at the monastery, had been in the Rwandan capital of Kigali in April 1994, when the Rwandan genocide began, and he [said], "It was exactly the same scenario." Zaire's President, Mobutu Sese Seko, is an old friend of Rwanda's former Hutu Power leaders; Mobutu appointed himself President 31 years ago and is now the longest-ruling despot in Africa. The Rwandan genocide put Mobutu back in the international spotlight; you had to deal with him if you wanted to deal with the refugees. Once again, Western leaders courted Mobutu as a power broker in regional affairs. Mobutu tolerates and even encourages the fighting between the Hutus and Tutsis in Zaire. In North Kivu, the writer encountered a large settlement of the local Hunde minority group, whose rivalry with the Hutus is mainly economic and political. The writer finally arrived in Kitchanga, the village where the Tutsis who fled from Mokoto had found refuge. The writer spoke with "the captain of the Mokoto refugees" who expressed the desire to return "home" to Rwanda. By giving shelter to Tutsis, Kitchanga became a magnet for a Hutu attack. At the end of May, more than 1,000 Tutsis were evacuated from Kitchanga to the Rwandan border. Instead of taking action against Hutu Power and its sponsors, American policymakers are scrambling to insure deniability. Zaire's Prime Minister, Kengo wa Dondo, announced that Zaire plans to close the Rwandan camps and send the refugees home "immediately." Kengo did not have a response to reporters' questions of what Zaire would do with its own refugees, the expelled citizens of North Kivu who remain in camps in Rwanda.
- Keywords
- Africa;
- Genocide;
- Hutu Tribe;
- Mobutu, Sese Seko;
- Rwanda;
- Trappist Monks;
- Tutsis (ethnic group)
Philip Gourevitch, Letter from Zaire, "NEIGHBORHOOD BULLY," The New Yorker, September 9, 1996, p. 52
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How to Build a Houseboat
Extreme Houseboats: See a houseboat being built with owner of Stardust Cruisers, Terry Aff.
The Bota Bota
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Art on the Water
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The Fonken Houseboat
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Hole in the Wall
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The Ocean
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Off the Grid, Outside the Box
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It's a Jungle Up There
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Could this hold 2 iPads..back to back? I don't like to do the "normal".
- Asked by Rose P from Swedesboro
- Nov 3, 2012
- Flag as inappropriate
1 Answer from the Community
Yes definitely would fit two iPads, or one iPad with a keyboard case without bulging the case outward past the actual width of the case. Either way there would be 2" at the top and 2" total at the side (or 1" at either side when centered).
- Answered by Julie-ann Y Y from Honolulu
- Dec 16, 2012
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Outpatient is the story of Morris Monk who writes a murder mystery while locked up in a mental inst...
A hit man gets a job in a movie theatre... he can't handle it.
A surreal desert fantasy.


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This is kind of like reading a Goosebumps "choose your ending" book... But better.
Tap and Blow!
He sold his soul for a shot at fame
Catchphrase and wigs and the jokes are lame...
Disclosure - October 12 - Reno, NV.
Treasure Island Music Festival - October 19 - San Francisco, CA.
Portugal, The Man - October 22 - Reno, NV.
Cut Copy - October 31 - Reno, NV.
Phoenix w/ Alt-J - December 5 - Reno, NV.
"How long will this last, this delicious feeling of being alive, of having penetrated the veil which hides beauty and the wonders of celestial vistas? It doesn't matter, as there can be nothing but gratitude for even a glimpse of what exists for those who can become open to it."
December 17 - Windhand
January 4 - Sleep
February 7 - Russian Circles/Inter Arma
February 10 - Queens of the Stone Age
February 17 - Neutral Milk Hotel
February 18 - Neutral Milk Hotel
March 1 - Pixies
March 3 - Lorde
April 11-13 - Coachella
May 2-4 - Austin Psych Fest
With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams; it is still a beautiful world.
Coachella: 08, 09, 10, 11, 12w1, 12w2, 13w1
Lollapalooza: 08,10,11,12
Burning Man: 08,10
Pretty sure most people in this thread are rail hugging suprefans. Heres a tip, stand back, do your thing, watch out for te drunk girls, and fucking dance a little.
"How long will this last, this delicious feeling of being alive, of having penetrated the veil which hides beauty and the wonders of celestial vistas? It doesn't matter, as there can be nothing but gratitude for even a glimpse of what exists for those who can become open to it."
Never been on the rail for a show in my life. The closest I've been is like 1-4 people back.
For Disclosure I was in the middle-front-left and I didn't stop dancing the entire show.
So, in short, grannock shut the fuck up; you once again have no idea what you're talking about.
This was the best thread ever. I've only been on the front row a couple of times - I was in the front for Rodriguez and Father John Misty weekend 2. I let a girl stand in front of me who politely asked me if she could, then she pulls her friend in after a song which was annoying. Father John sang a song to another girl next to me, and also borrowed a red rose headband for a song from the friend of the girl who asked me if she could stand ahead of me. It was fun being at the front for a set, but people up there need to chill and not be so pushy. And the reason I was there in the first place is because I waited through the end of Tanlines, then Rodriguez, then Father John. So get to sets early if you want to be up front, otherwise chill out and accept being a little bit further back like everyone else. Way more relaxed at the back where no one cares about stuff like that.
Last edited by gopher37; 04-26-2013 at 04:23 PM.
Coachella 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 11, 12.2, 13.2
Outside Lands 10, 11
can't wait to read this thread again.
Originally Posted by Lotus
What is lulz?? Lol!
Whiskey Sour
2 oz blended whiskey
Juice of 1/2 lemon
1/2 tsp powdered sugar
1 cherry
1/2 slice lemon
Shake blended whiskey, juice of lemon, and powdered sugar with ice and strain into a whiskey sour glass. Decorate with the half-slice of lemon, top with the cherry, and serve.
January 15th - Whiskey A Go GoThe National
March 25th - Shrine AuditoriumCoachella (Weekend One)
April 11-13 - Empire Polo Club Skinny Puppy
January 24th - The Observatory
March 5th - Mayan TheaterCut Copy
April 1st - PalladiumFranz Ferdinand
April 29th - The Wiltern Mindless Self Indulgence
March 12th - Marquee Theatre (Tempe)
April 15th - House of Blues (Sunset Strip)
this is a top end thread!!!!
Funny how you remember things a bit different...OP you got no love here or there.
Next time be cool and tell your b to calm the f down
no one likes to be in the back...so get there early....don't be a fuck who pushes there way up front. Coachella rule
SO glad I stuck with this thread all the way to the end. Absolutely legendary.
How had I not seen this thread till now? Quality.
IT'S MY NEW COACHELLA 2013 MIX! 60 of this years artists in only 45 minutes!
Agree completely. I'm 5'1'' and would never try to use that as an advantage to get to the front. We are all there for the same reason, no rule says -all the tall peeps to the back-. It's not a class photo. I prefer not being slammed in the front and dancing freely where there is space anyway. Some idiots.
sucks brah i had the best time ever at Disclosure


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The first thing I noticed as I approached the dock at the top of the Miami River was the Numarine 78 Fly's low, sleek, swept-back profile. She looked balanced and proportional, including the forward main-deck brow, bridge, afterdeck overhang and big wide windows to either side and forward: something that would shed much light on what goes on inside this impressive yacht.
Numarine takes pride in the ability to customize its yachts, and this particular 78 is a good example. Although she was designed for work in private charter, she still functions well as a family-oriented yacht. The dining table on the afterdeck, shaded by the bridge overhang, easily seats six to eight guests for alfresco meals. To either side, it's a few steps down to the hydraulically operated swim platform, where there is also a door leading to the crew quarters and engine room. Both areas are finished to yacht standards. The engine room provides all the space a hands-on skipper or owner-operator could want to help him keep things humming along. All vital engine-maintenance areas, including every pump, valve, switch and system necessary for peace of mind while under way, is readily accessible.
Equally well planned are the foredeck and bridge deck. At the bow, I found a large and quite comfortable seating and lounging area with accompanying table and a pair of sun pads. On this 78, there was also an optional cabana-style cover that easily deploys while the yacht is at the dock or on the hook, and it stows just as quickly.
Click here to see a full photo gallery of the Numarine 78 Fly.
The bridge deck is a superbly laid-out space with its stylish hardtop, portside steering station and lounge opposite. Just abaft the skipper's bench seat is a bar with a dining table to starboard. Considering her future in charter duty, the owner decided to mount a Jacuzzi tub up here instead of the usual dinghy or tender cradle.


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- November 29, 2012
- 7:47 a.m.
- Suggest removal
- Reply to this post
JohnMayo writes:
Letter Writer,
I am a Republican and I dont think religion and politics should mix. Gets your religion dirty, there are crooks on both sides and God is better than government in any event. Also, not all Democrats are bad, a few locals are OK. Golonka. Ok maybe one I can think of, but I bet a lot of the non-partisans are Democrats.
enviro lefty
People who knock other people's religion are jealous I think because their life lacks meaning. Even if you do not attend faithfully, having some sort of spiritual aspect to your life gives purpose to the things you do, and a greater appreciation to the things you receive.
Didn't say you were mean to your neighbors, most of my friends are Democrats, so is my fiance. I try to vent my political frustrations here rather then take it out on them.
But the money that went to Planned Parenthood through the Komen foundation to help them stay in business despite losing money to perform abortions into the 2nd trimester seems to have been a big issue this year. Money is fungible...etc...etc...Day after pill is one thing, late term abortions like that though are pretty gross. Looks like a human, DNAs like a human, fights the doctor for its life like a human....pretty gross.
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An Irish passport is one of the most sought-after travel documents in the world.
I have both Irish and English citizenship and have always used the Irish passport in preference.
It's kitschy but true; being Irish is seen as being more, well, likeable or something.
The easiest way to get an Irish passport of course is to be born in Ireland.
But, if you drew the short straw on that one, you're going to need an Irish parent or an Irish grandparent.
If you have an Irish great-grandparent you need to satisfy the following requirements;
There are two circumstances under which a great-grandchild is eligible to apply for Irish citizenship by descent:
The Irish Consulate in New York explained that the parent would need to be registered in the "Foreign Birth Register" which is held at the Consulate, effectively a listing of those of Irish citizens born abroad who are entitled to Irish citizenship who have their births "registered."
Meanwhile, Ireland's Prime Minister Brian Cowen has indicated that he would favor relaxing naturalization laws and allowing Americans whose nearest Irish relative is a great-grandparent to claim citizenship, provided they have spent some time either working or studying in Ireland. So watch this space.
A practical use of an Irish passport is that you will be entitled to work and travel freely in any of the 27 countries in the European Union.
You won't need a work permit for this – and once you have worked in a European Union county for a certain length of time, you will be entitled to unemployment compensation, health care and pension rights.
How else then can you get an Irish passport? Getting a passport is really the easy part – it's getting Irish citizenship that takes a little time.
Born in Ireland
To get an Irish passport, you must first become an Irish citizen. Fortunately, Americans can hold dual citizenship, as can Irish, so there's no conflict there.
Let's look at the scenarios that allow you to claim Irish citizenship.
Anyone born in Ireland before January 1, 2005 is an Irish citizen. After that date, it is not automatic, and the citizenship and residency history of both parents is taken into account.
Marriage to Irish citizen
You are also entitled to Irish citizenship if you are married to an Irish citizen.
To claim citizenship by marriage, you must meet the following conditions: you must be married to an Irish citizen for at least three years; you must have had one year of "continuous residence" on the island of Ireland immediately before the date of your application; and finally, you must have been living on the island of Ireland for at least two of the four years before that year of continuous residence.
If you were born outside of Ireland and either your mother or father (or both) was an Irish citizen at the time of your birth, then you are entitled to Irish citizenship.
Permanent residency
If you have been a permanent resident in Ireland, you can try to become a citizen through naturalization. You will need to have lived permanently in Ireland for the previous five years, be over 18 and not have a criminal record.
But let's face it – living in Ireland for five years is a lot of effort just to get that Irish passport. A much better way to get an Irish passport is to have at least one Irish grandparent. And by Irish, we mean an Irish grandparent who was or is an Irish citizen.
Irish grandparents
What to do next?
After getting an Irish grandparent, the next thing to do is to call an Irish consulate and ask them to send you an application form. There are Irish consulates in most of the major U.S cities. They should also be able to advise you on getting the right documentation in order for your application.
You'll need a copy of your grandparent's birth certificate from Ireland. If you don't have a copy you can get one from the General Registry Office in Dublin. (Click here to go to their Web site.)
You will also need: Your grandparent's certificate of marriage; your parents' birth and marriage certificates; and an original death certificate for any of these relatives who have passed away. If the grandparent is deceased, you'll need to show a certified copy of their death certificate, and if alive, a current official I.D. (such as a driver's license or passport.)
To access the Irish documents, it will help you to know as much information about where and when your Irish grandparent was born, which may involve some genealogy research.
If one of your parents is Irish, and you would like to get an Irish passport, the process is easier. You need: their marriage certificate; a current official I.D; a copy of their death certificate if your Irish parent has passed away, a full long-form birth certificate of your Irish parent, showing your grandparents' names, places of birth and ages at birth.
You will also need: your own long-form birth certificate; documentation to show that you have changed your name, such as a marriage certificate, if this has happened; a notarized copy of your current passport, and at least three other notarized copies of proofs of identity, one of which must be a photo I.D; a bank/utility statement with your current address; and two signed passport photos.
Once you have established your Irish citizenship – which can take up to 18 months to process – you can apply for an Irish passport. This can take up to six weeks to process and you can do this through your nearest Irish consulate.
And then, you too can sashay through the EU passport section at Dublin airport after the overnight flight from New York!
How many of the new Irish citizens stay in Ireland - this advice is on line- -;-Movetoireland.com Unexpected Bonus of Irish Citizenship Irish Citizenship is a privilege which carries some unexpected bonuses. Because Ireland is a member of the European Union (EU), Irish citizens are free to live and work in any member country of the EU. No residence or work permits are necessary. • Purchase property in any country of the EU • Travel throughout the EU freely, using the same Passport as the citizens of France, England, Germany, Italy, Spain, the Netherlands, and all of the other member nations. • Unemployment compensation, health insurance and pension rights also become available after working for a relatively short period in the EU.
There is no such thing as "English citizenship", not since the year 1707 anyway.
There are complaints in this section of all these people from countries like China lining up for passports. After reading this article, it seems to me that the only option they had was to live in Ireland for five years. Would all these people have done this, or is there a more nefarious route to an Irish passport?
GaelicPrince: You make some very good points. There is a guy who posts here under the name Sir Peter. He knows everything about Ireland. I recommend you direct your query to him.
My grandmother was born in Ireland, she was adopted shortly after coming across the pond. I do not know her birth name and that side of the family has no care for me or anything Irish. Been trying to find information where she was from. All I know she was the oldest granddaughter of William "Bill" Fluery the prince that reigned along or beyoned the boarder with a set of hand cannons. I always wanted to go to Ireland, but the dutch, canadians and british prevent me from going! And cannot get a helping hand. It takes to years if your application is filled out properly by the parent way! Been trying to find a mail order bride service, did the canadians and dutch burn that for everyone? I keep forgeting I'm a prince, other than the times Irish from Ireland point me out and mark to the dutch. It's funny some people believe I'm the one to end the war in Northern Ireland. I can't go to Ireland or talk to anyone Irish, Have sex with any women or enquire about my Irish roots. But anyone born and raised in Denmark witha dutch accent can go to Ireland claiming they're me and you guys line up vergin women for them! Why is that?
George thanks for sharing that information. I agree, they have to get the alcohol problem under control before they can get anything else under control. And if I had a dollar for every time I listened to an Irish or Irish American emphatically tell me how they don't take life seriously, or refuse to take life seriously, or they are never too serious, some other statement along those lines. Although I do see attitude amongst Americans as well, just the refusal to grow up. It's not a healthy attitude to have for those who want to be in control of their life, and recognize and address problems. But I hear it all the time, and it makes me cringe.
For some reason this site doesn't allow URLS. That's ridiculous. So I have to recommend folks to check out a site called irisoifigiuil dot ie. That site gives the names of the thousands of people who are being given Irish citizenship each month. It's depressing reading. All those Alis and mBumbos and Kaczylecsvkis-- we can say good-bye to the Irish as a distinct ethnic people. Ironically, if you want real Irish people, look to Northern Ireland. Their immigration rate is much lower than that of the dysfunctional alcoholic misruled Southern Ireland. Northern Ireland now feels much more Irish than the South.
Its a long shot but you could approach the Isreali's and see if they can give you one.
You don't even have to do a test in Irish history or geography, or prove proficiency in either of the languages of Ireland. You don't even have to appear to take an oath in public, like we make naturalized citizens do here in the US. It's a sad farce for anyone who values their Irish heritage to see Irish passports being doled out like burgers at McDonalds.
If you pass by the Passport Office in Dublin you'll see huge numbers of Chinese, Russians, Africans, Indians etc. lining up to get their passport. Irish nationality is the easiest to get in Europe. The Irish don't value their own nationality--they give it away cheaply.