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Find this climb at the upper end of the West Ridge in a stretch where the trail levels out. It is characterized by a small buttress with a bulge and a crack going up to a break with a tree with slings about 65 feet up. It lies West of Xanadu and East of Knight's Move. P1. About 65 feet. Starts with delicate face moves and 15 feet up is crux, getting into fingerlock and transfering into this crack system. Crack is perfect for stoppers and has great fingerlocks for 20 feet and then goes to tight hands and perfect hands for the final 30 feet. Chockstone kicked my ass last month but I flashed it twice today...got my revenge. P2 The second pitch continues up a thin face with occasional opportunities for small wires for pro. An awkward traversing/mantle/arete move leads to the second belay. The second pitch (9+s the s is for sandbag as quoted from the new Eldo book) might seem a bit harder that the first.... P3 Third pitch consists of easy climbing to walk down gully. Continue 10' up broken rock from the second belay to a nice vertical 15-20' finger crack in a right facing corner. This would be quite hard if stems weren't available on the right, but as it is it's probably 5.8. Past this things really easy off - continue up to a large tree with slings and rap rings. Rappel from here back down to the Purple Haze rap tree or take the walk-off ledge to the left...per Jason Wells.
Standard rack with extra hand pieces. You can toprope, but must lead one of 2 5.7 pitches to set up toprope.
The crux is thin and technical but short and well-protected, only about 15 feet up, with a reasonable stance to scope it out, make false starts, etc. The rest seemed like a good 5.8 hand crack to the first ledge, if I recall. It was one of my very first 5.10 leads, and for the above reasons I'd reccomend it to someone looking to break into the grade.
I led this this morning and found the crux to feel quite a bit harder than Xanadu.....very off-balance and insecure move and fairly sustained for 10-15 feet. Cool climb but felt much harder than Xanadu and both are 10a (and about 100 feet apart). Cool eery clouds pulled in and filled the whole canyon......noone else in the area made the atmosphere very cool.
Using a few long runners, P1 and P2 can be combined to get some value-added climbing. For me, P2 was at least as difficult as P1 and more interesting.
I'd just like to comment on the quality of pitch two. I love this pitch. Great stemming and positive edges! It works quite well to combing pitch one and pitch two. As for the S rating, bring RP's and save some very small cams for the top. The last move around the corner is a little scary without the proper gear.
The old Erickson and Ament Eldorado guides call the first pitch 9- and the second pitch 9+. The first pitch is pretty easy if you're tall (I'm 6'2" with mediocre reach). Pitch 2 is exciting. Be optimistic and keep going. There's a good stance and gear after every move. The last move is much easier going straight up (if you're tall enough) than swinging around to the right. Save several tiny wires (#1 stopper, RP) for the last move and a 1 1/2" cam (red camalot?) for a pocket after the last hard move. That will protect the second. Pitch 3 is not worth the hassle. Rap from the Purple Haze tree. Combine pitch 1 and 2.
This is a SUPERB route, one of the finest I have done in Eldorado thus far. The crux is very well-protected on very small nuts, RPs. The cross through at the crux is very exciting and esthetic. The climbing is also very fun once this business is over, you may have a little pump but the jams on the upper half of the route are GREAT.... Have fun with this one, it is an excellent route.
P1 and P2 combine great for one long pitch. I do think there might be one 5.10a move at the crux of P1; however, I think the scariest part is topping out on P2. A fall here would smart! This route is substantially easier than Blind Faith (5.10a). For Eldo, this is definitely one of the easier 5.10a's.
Combining pitches one and two works fine. The first pitch felt 5.10 to me, the second pitch was scarier though. I placed three RP's on the second pitch, one of those placements was decent, the other two marginal. Interesting move on the second pitch.
Finding the climb: (someone asked)... It's near the top west side of the ridge, just before you get to Rincon wall. There are gullies on either side of this section of cliff. There are several great looking cracks in this section-- Purple Haze being one of the most aesthetic in my opinion. P1 is the tad-easier first cousin of the first pitch of Rincon. In other words, I think it has more in common with that climb than Xanadu. (Talk about sandbag-- the first 40 feet of Rincon are rather stiff for a nine...) P2 is great and the pro's there if you look-- one small wire and a med cam got me through its second half. P3 is short but worth doing, too. (See photo below.)
The crux of the first pitch can also be protected well with Lowe Balls (or Ballnuts, or whatever they're called nowadays).
Awesome climb. Pitch one is more strenuous I think but less subtle with good gear. Pitch two takes lots of small gear but you have solid (read that perfect) stems throughout until... The end of pitch two, you had better have saved a couple small nuts (like number ones and twos) because the last move around the corner is nerve-racking. I'm a solid 5.10 climber and I found it scary as hell to do it with crappy gear since a fall would be a long bouncy pendulum.
#4 Wallnut fits well for the blind placement on P1. P2 isn't bad if you climb 11 sport. I thought the gear was even good (better than moving into P2 of Purple Haze). But the hell can't someone put in a decent anchor at the top of this or Purple Haze? I mean really...do you really want to rap off those meager trees? Fine the...is bomber....but the slings are killing them. Face it Eldo is a high use area and could use some decent anchors in places.
Willem, what about if you climb 10- trad??? Seriously, though if P1 is one of the easiest 10s in Eldo, then budding 10 leaders should try it, if for no other reason than to realize that even 'easy' 10 is significantly harder than 'hard' 9 here. Definitely not a one-move-wonder. I agree with the anchors, have they been suggested to the FHC?
This first pitch of this route is kind of a one move wonder (in terms of the 10a rating), but none the less it is super fun and well worth doing.
I thought this was a good route, the crux requires some thinking and a [definite] move of faith or two. I protected the crux with a #1 stopper that looked OK and a green alien that evoked maximum happiness. The climbing gets easier as you go up P1 but it is still quite a pump, I moved quickly to avoid burning out. The only really good rest is 3/4 of the way up the route.
Led this one a few weeks back, it felt like 10a for at least three moves. But, it being my second 5.10 I would say it's great for new 5.10 leaders. I had great pieces in the crux, a #1 stopper and a green alien did a perfect job followed by a #1 camalot another 10 feet up once you're through the business. It felt quite pumpy though and really had to keep moving so I wouldn't burn out. I would agree that some bolts at the top of P1 would be a great addition. I always cringe rappeling off that crappy anchor up there. It would be great if you could use the bolts for Knights Move as well as chockstone and purple haze.
A couple of comments - First, if you protect the crux and then placed the next piece 10 feet later as Jason describes, you would no doubt deck if you blew the clip on the second piece. Yes, it's a little pumpy through that section, but it's worth the trouble to place a piece a bit above the crux rather than waiting for ground fall potential. Second, to Willem, Edward and Jason - what is wrong with doing the whole climb rather than rapping off after the first pitch? If you are not up to the challenge of the second pitch on Chockstone, leave it for later and finish on Knights Move. If you want a sanitized experience with anchors after the first pitch, there is always bolted canyon just up the road. The whole "convenience anchor" thing in Eldo has been beaten to death in a dozen other threads and the concensus seems to be that the anchors are neither wanted or needed by the majority of people who climb in Eldo.
Larry - I didn't have a cup o ire for breakfast. I was simply pointing out that these are not one pitch climbs, (even though they are often climbed as such) and that you could actually *gasp* climb the second pitch, get to the top and use already established rap anchors or *gasp* walk off. Ron Olson is dead wrong when he says that this is not a convenience anchor. This anchor is not necessary to actually climb either of the routes in question as there are plenty of good gear placements and a tree for a belay anchor. It doesn't matter whether or not it is ratty slings on a tree or shiny new bolts, the fact remains that it is an anchor designed for rapping after the first pitch of a couple of two pitch climbs. And for that reason, it can only be a convenience anchor. Ron is right about one thing though - you can submit an application to put in a couple of unneeded bolts if you wish to do so.
I agree with the AC. An anchor at the top of P1 is the very definition of a convenience anchor. Actually, I don't have any problem with certain convenience anchors per se, but Chockstone's first two pitches are really one pitch.So, in effect, this would be a midpitch bolted anchor. Silly. Just climb the first "two pitches" as the single 90-foot pitch it should be. If someone really wants to do something useful in this area, then I suggest putting in bolts to replace the ridiculous anchor that people use to rap from the top of Chockstone P2, Superstone, Friends in High Places, and Purple Haze. If I recall that is a scrawny tree backed up by a sketchy block, and sees a ton of use.
AC, I don't believe you would deck when laying gear as I suggest. If you look at the picture below of Ivan Rezucha in his "hero shot". He is protecting exactly like I did except his last stopper was a bomber green Alien. Where Ivan is standing in the picture you can place a bomber #1 Camalot on a very good stance, if one were to miss the clip here you probably can't climb 5.8 much less 5.10. I didn't take a good hard look at the anchor with the thought "hmm maybe there needs to be bolts here" my recollection is that the tree isn't that big and the pile of rocks that are slung looked pretty fractured and there really wasn't any other bomber spots to build an anchor. From a safety standpoint, I would vote for a bolt anchor but I understand why some of the better climbers that continue with the other pitches would frown on the idea. Nobody wants a bolted anchor for every climb, that's for sure.
Seems to me like a lot of bolts are going in where they were not needed before. I like Ron, he's a decent guy, but at present I'm largely against his influence in the canyon. Ron seems to be generally in favor of bolting a lot of things. When logical and decent people disagree on points, it is usually not the pro and con data that they disagree on, it is the value assigned to each [argument]. Ron was in favor of the bolts placed on most of the applications I've seen, wanted a retro-bolt placed on Aerospace, and came out pro-bolt [on the] Bitty Buttress thing. I guess that means he's generally in favor of retro-bolting climbs and anchors.Shoot, this was hashed out regarding bolting the mid-point anchor on Blind Faith. In my own opinion, I think adding rap stations to multi-pitch climbs is generally a bad idea. Adding TR anchors to the top of walk-offs is similarly bad. If gear can be placed, place the gear. There are a lot of areas near bolder that have a lot of TR and convenience anchors, do we have to turn [Eldo] into one of them? What about when there are 10,000 bolted anchors in the park, all aging? Who will keep them up and good at [the] rate they age when everything [is] bolted? When will none be trustworthy? Are we building a [dependency]? Will we create "blighted" areas where people crowd at the bolted TR anchors? I can't say, but I really like Eldo and maybe I just fear change. Chockstone is a nice climb for people competent to climb it, and for 30 years, there has not been a problem with that. I'm opposed to bolts being added to the middle of this historic climb.
Anonymous Coward is dead wrong when he/she says this is a convenience anchor. It is a rappel anchor that allows rapping from the top of Knight's Move to the ground with two rappels on one 60m rope. Few climbers routinely bring two ropes to Eldorado in order to do long rappels. It is the norm in Eldorado to have rappel routes that can be negotiated with a single 60m rope. Following AC's logic, we should remove the bolt anchors atop the first pitch of Tagger, the Bastille Crack, Bastille West Buttress, Hair City, and Calypso. These are multi-pitch climbs; why allow rappelling after the first pitch? I hope that someone will make an application to the FHRC for a bolt anchor atop the first pitch of Chockstone.Let the climbing community hash it out and see how the chips fall.
Joe - I think your idea for a bolt anchor for Chockstone p2, Friends in High Places and Purple Haze is excellent. Why don't you suss it out, figure out where the bolts should go, and submit an application to the FHRC?If you don't feel qualified to drill the bolts, I'm sure other members of the community will step up to implement the proposal if it is approved. I strongly encourage all climbers who have ideas for improved anchors in Eldorado to put in applications to the FHRC.Again, the application can be found at www.aceeldo.org/fhrc/application.php
Ron - Last I knew, it was an easy walk off from the top of Knight's Move. At the very least, you can walk a short distance and use some already placed bolted rap anchors. In my book, that makes it a convenience anchor. Just how many different bolted places do there need to be on the West Ridge to rap down? Aren't there plenty already? Is a little walking going to hurt anybody? Probably not, but it's more convenient to just rap down the route. And it's definitely more convenient not to have to deal with that pesky second pitch. And wouldn't it be super-convenient if there was a pair of shiny fat bolts to rap from. To twist the meaning of your words like you twisted mine, we could use your logic to mandate that there be a rap route at the top of each and every climb in Eldo. Now wouldn't that be convenient?
I guess I could understand having rap anchors here, just because the upper pitches look bad, The time I was there I didn't see many people continuing past the first pitch. Do you think this might turn into an overused toprope though? further causing confusion and arguments about what the anchor should be used for. P.S. I'm all for removing the bolts at the end of pitch one on [Bastille Crack], what a waste and an obvious visual distraction, there would be no bolts at all on the whole route without these. however the bolts on west butt seem more reasonable given the size of the crack on that climb.
Ron, you are exactly right. These anchors should not have been placed to begin with - they are convenience anchors. I don't think that the solution is to remove them however - this just further damages the rock and stirs up tension in the climbing community. But the point I'd like to make is that their presence doesn't justify more anchors - such as on Chockstone.
Certainly an argument for bolted anchors in Eldo can be made: when the walk-off is creating excessive erosion, such as the case with the Kloof area; when an historical anchor uses a natural feature such as a tree or flake that is deteriorating or damaged (for example, The Unsaid or Rincon 1st pitch variations); perhaps when no original anchor was installed, and potential for rope damage or a pain-in-the-arse situation for cleaning the route exists (rarely the case, but Another Pipeline Bonecrusher comes to mind); or, possibly, when the historical anchor is an unsightly wad of slings (Le Void area) and a bolted anchor would create less of a visual impact. With no judgement on the current debate, I hate to see bolts placed anywhere in Eldorado, but acknowledge that many more people are climbing in Eldorado than 30 years ago, and hence impact to trees, anchors, walk-offs, etc. are very different than they used to be. While some bolted convenience anchors have been installed (Bastille Crack, Calypso, etc.), many of these were done by individuals with no input from the Eldo climbing community. Much like the debate over replacing antiquated fixed hardware with bolts in Eldo, the placement of bolted anchors should be done on a case-by-case basis, and the bias should always be towards NOT damaging the resource further (i.e. not placing drilled anchors). I would hope the FHRC holds this bias.
"Ron, you are exactly right. These anchors should not have been placed to begin with - they are convenience anchors." The anchors on Tagger at least saves the tree and are justifiable on that basis. The others might not make it through the revew process if they were to be added now since there are gear options. In the case of Chockstone, this would just be nothing but convenience. The "second" pitch is easier even. Also, putting a bolt on Aerospace would be a travesty. It's scary, but that's why it's fun.
I agree with [Bubb, Janes], et al. Bolts on this would be purely convenience. Is the current anchor really that bad? Why miss out on the second pitch? etc. An example on a similar note, I climbed [Blind Faith] for the first time with my gf last summer. I got the first pitch, and pulled into the little cave area and set an anchor. She came up, and as light was waning I made her lead the second pitch (being somewhat of a coward). She onsighted the pitch in the dark, complete with a pigeon flying in her face when she was well above gear. I followed the pitch, thinking damn this little roof is tricky. We descended the [Bastille] walkoff in the dark, excited by a great after work experience. We still remember it with great happiness. If there were fat bolts there to bail on, we would have probably done so. The siren call of a pint of stout at the sun being too strong a pull. Alas, I am a stingey bastard, completely unwilling to leave gear unless the situation is beyond [desperation]. We would have missed out on a great memory. As far as retrobolting bold routes (i.e. [Aerospace]), that is absolutely absurd. Odds are you have at least one tough friend who will let you hitchike. Even if you don't have any friends, what's wrong with emailing [Bubb], or [Janes], or [D'Antonio], or a million other people who would gladly run up it with you in exchange for a pint somewhere? Some may argue that this isn't legit, but isn't it a lot more legit than ruining the experience for those who can? the lemon wedge
AC - glad you and your girlfriend had a memorable time climbing the second pitch of Blind Faith in the dark. Beth Coats, an Olympic biathlete and professional mountain bike racer, wasn't so lucky. She and partner Pete Takeda arrived atop the first pitch of Blind Faith at dusk and she decided to traverse off to the right, unroped, instead of climbing the second pitch. A hold broke and she fell and she is now paralyzed from the navel down. See Pete's account at www.petetakeda.com/features/fallingfromgrace.pdf A quote from Pete's article: "This incident or any like it nullifies the seeming glory of our pursuit. Climbers talk about ethics and what climbing means and what climbing is all about. When Beth was carted away it was as if someone had taken my passion and reduced it to mere frivolity, a game of petulant children..." In this case, having a fixed anchor there would have done far more than entice someone to a cool brew at the Southern Sun. Climbing is worth living for, but it's not worth dying (or getting seriously injured) for. It's only a game, folks.
The very purpose statement of the ACE is to "conserve Eldorado." In some cases that means adding bolts to protect trees, prevent erosion, or clean up visual pollution such as nests of slings. In other cases it means preventing unnecessary holes to be drilled in the rock. I believe Chockstone fits into this latter category. I was looking in my guidebook and I realized that Chockstone was my second ten in Eldo - right after "Bolting for Glory." I vividly remember doing the second pitch and finding it more of a challenge than the first - I was freaking out because a wasp kept landing on a hold I wanted to use. I also remember completing the climb and walking off.
Josh Janes writes: 'The very purpose statement of the ACE is to "conserve Eldorado." In some cases that means adding bolts to protect trees, prevent erosion, or clean up visual pollution such as nests of slings. In other cases it means preventing unnecessary holes to be drilled in the rock. I believe Chockstone fits into this latter category.' The Eldorado Fixed Hardware Review Committee guidelines (www.aceeldo.org/fhrc/guidelines.pdf) state: "Section 3.4. Applications Regarding Anchors. Applications to install new anchors shall be generally given favorable consideration when the new anchor replaces anchors on trees or other vegetation or where the anchor replaces visual eyesores, e.g., wads of slings attached to pitons, fixed nuts, and or bolts. " The current anchor atop the first pitch of Chockstone is a wad of slings around a block.Replacing this anchor by bolts falls within the above guideline. Replacing the tree anchor atop Purple Haze by bolts also falls within this guideline. Climbers who want their views heard on FHRC applications should visit the ACE website www.aceeldo.org/fhrc/ and click on"current applications".Input from the climbing community via on-line voting and voting at the public meeting carries tremendous weight. Again, quoting from the FHRC guidelines:"Section 3.1. Voting. In considering all applications, the FHRC shall give great weight to the opinion of the majority of the climbing community. Any FHRC member voting against prevailing public opinion must have excellent reason(s) to do so, and must describe and discuss those reason(s) in detail at the public meeting." I encourage all climbers who care about Eldorado to read the FHRC guidelines, vote on current FHRC applications, and attend the semi-annual FHRC public meetings. If you feel a current belay/rappel anchor should be replaced by bolts, make an application to the FHRC for it. www.aceeldo.org/fhrc/application.php If you really want a say in the future of Eldorado, appiy to become a member of ACE or the FHRC.Applications for ACE and the FHRC will be sought in October for terms starting in January 2006.
Should we conclude then that a bold anchor will eventually appear then in any place that someone eventually leaves bail gear? Should those who don't want to see the canyon bolted to kindom come start removing every fixed anchor in the canyon now? In anticipation that a wad of slings around a horn or tree 1/2 way through a climb in some odd parthenogenesis will eventually become a bolted anchor? I feel sorry for anyone who is injured in a fall, but citing that as a reason to put up fixed anchors mid-pitch is lower than pathetic. It smacks of paternalism and superiority. People are people and can guide their own lives, assessing risks and making choices. It's not like I never lost a friend to climbing, but I know that sanitizing climbing to whatever level will make people more dependent on fixed gear, not safer. Having personally cleaned brains, yes *brains*, off of the walls in Eldo twice now, I can tell you that inexperience and lack of self-reliance has caused the accidents I have seen, and that "nicer" fixed anchors would not have saved either climber. Besides, you are going to have to pick an arguement, is it about saving trees or parenting and protecting other climbers? More people have been hurt approaching the Bastille Crack's initial right facing dihedral then anywhere else in the park I can think of. Please tell me that we are not going to bolt that!
Most of the time when logical and rational people argue a point, it is not the data upon which they disagree, it is the value they assign to each point- thus reaching a different conclusion when weighing the arguements. This climb is a ~40-year-old classic multi-pitch climb, it has stood as long without needing bolts and although the canyon and it's visitor numbers and profiles have changed, I don't see such an anchor as being necessary. This is a convenience anchor. Perhaps it would replace less sightly slings around a horn, but as long as those have stood they have been reasonably safe and I am unaware of any injuries precipitated from their use. Now, I have seen a lot of bolts placed in the park lately, where trad gear was available, and I have seen the impact that they have had. With the new anchors above Duh Dihedral, Handcrack, Terminal Velocity, Pool of Blood, etc... the character of the area has changed. Notably, all of those climbs are climbs I have lead and then placed a normal gear anchor above, some requiring directionals, some not. But by bolting these do you instead attract big crowds of people into certain areas and degrade the area? There are already plenty of areas around boulder with loads of single-pitch climbs with bolted anchors. Do we have to turn Eldo into one of them? How many more TR anchors does Eldo need on climbs that have been there for 40 years? We've hashed this out before, on Blind Faith, but I can see that that whole discussion has been erased, and since I suppose it was considered resolved and does not affect the "beta" for that climb, that is a reasonable resolution. As a person who will be submitting a bolting application to ACE, I appreciate ACE and believe it to have a legitimate function, particularly when it comes to evaluating new route applications and replacing old gear- like with like, or occasionally saving a tree, etc. But as they say now, the shoe is on the other foot. For years ACE FHRC was dominated by an anti-bolt faction that was over protective and wouldn't approve anything, but now the tide is reversed. I like the FHRC as a concept, but I am against the present interpretation of the policies and I honestly believe that the present influence in the park is a negative one. ACE and the FHRC are also directed to listed to public imput. Please consider visiting this site frequently to review these submissions and give your input & feedback. For my own part, I do more than complain and criticize. Having climbed over 600 routes in Eldo over the last decade, and on every crag there... and not being against new routes and anchors in general, and beleiving myself rational enough to consider each route on it's own merit. I did volunteer to serve on ACE a few years ago. I was turned down as there were "a great number of qualified candidates" apparently much more qualified than me. So for now I speak from the outside.
Tony Bubb writes: "Should we conclude then that a bold anchor will eventually appear then in any place that someone eventually leaves bail gear?" No, of course not. Every proposed bolt anchor goes through the FHRC review process. Only those that muster majority support from the climbing community will be installed. TB: "Should those who don't want to see the canyon bolted to kindom come start removing every fixed anchor in the canyon now?" I hope that fixed sling anchors that are regular rappel routes would be made better by climbers who use them. Cut off old tatty slings and install a new one of your own. Feel free to remove bail slings from places that are not standard rap routes. TB: "I feel sorry for anyone who is injured in a fall, but sighting that as a reason to put up fixed anchors mid-pitch is lower than pathetic." I was not advocating putting up a fixed anchor mid-pitch. Beth Coats' accident occurred when traversing off the top of the first pitch of Blind Faith. It is unlikely that a bolt anchor will ever be placed here, since community sentiment is against it. My argument is one made by Richard Rossiter: there are far more important things in life than the arrangement of bolts on a rock face. TB: "More people have been hurt approaching the Bastille Crack's initial right facing dihedral then anywhere else in the park I can think of. Please tell me that we are not going to bolt that!" I can tell you unequivocally that no bolt will ever be installed at that spot on the Bastille Crack, as long as the FHRC process is in force. TB: "For years ACE was dominated by an anti-bolt faction, but now the tide is reversed. I like ACE as a concept, but I am against the present interpretation of the policies and I honestly believe that the present ACE influence in the park is a negative one." Regarding a bolt anchor on Chockstone, I am speaking as an individual and not as a member of the ACE board. ACE and the FHRC do not have a pro-bolt ideology. ACE and the FHRC are committed to implementing the FHRC process in a fair manner. Input from the climbing community carries the greatest weight in decided if new bolt anchors are installed. If you don't want to see a particular bolt anchor that has been applied for, vote against it on the ACE web site, and come to the FHRC public meeting and vote against it a second time. Another ACE function is fund raising. Money raised by ACE goes to the park to maintain and build climber access trails. This year's project is a new trail on Hawk Eagle Ridge. I urge all climbers to support this effort by attending Celebrate Eldorado. There will be a party and bouldering competition at The Spot on Thursday September 15th, with an auction where people can bid to climb with famous climbers. Roger and Bill Briggs, Christian Griffith, and Alec Sharp have already agreed to participate. Other activities include a trail run, trail building, and a self-rescue clinic, which will be held in the park on Saturday September 17. Mark your calendar and plan to attend!
Like Tony, I have done well over 500 routes in Eldo, many of them numerous times, and have been climbing there for 35 years now. I also have applied for a position on both the ACE board and the FHRC but apparently I don't have the qualifications either. I firmly believe that these positions are not filled with the most qualified people that apply which makes it a "who you know" kind of appointment. The FHRC has done a commendable job in the past towards preserving the Eldorado experience and the limited resources available there. The problem that we face at this point is to prevent the pro-bolt faction from sanitizing the Eldorado experience beyond recognition by placing both midpitch and first pitch anchors that are simply not needed. The logical extension of this policy would be to replace degrading fixed gear with bolts, etc. As has been pointed out countless times, there are plenty of areas around Boulder where short climbs with bolts and fixed anchors abound. The bottom line is that not every climb or climbing area needs to be accessible to every person.
AC writes: "The problem that we face at this point is to prevent the pro-bolt faction from sanitizing the Eldorado experience beyond recognition by placing both midpitch and first pitch anchors that are simply not needed." Mid-pitch anchors will never be installed. From the FHRC guidelines, Section 3.4: "Applications to add anchors in the middle of existing pitches, i.e., anchors that make it easier to retreat before the traditional end of the pitch, shall be denied." As to other bolt anchors, the following has to happen before such an anchor is installed: 1. An application has to be made to the FHRC for such an anchor.2. The application has to conform to FHRC guideline Section 3.4.3. The application has to garner majority support from the climbing community via voting on the ACE website and voting at the FHRC public meeting.4. The application has to be approved by the FHRC and the park.5. The applicant has to install the anchor or find someone to do it. Believe it or not, but there are several anchors that have been approved by the FHRC that have never been installed. Fears that the Eldorado experience will become sanitized beyond recognition are overblown. Climbers who don't want to see new bolt anchors in Eldorado should vote no on FHRC applications for such anchors and make sure their like-minded friends vote no also.
As another avid Eldo Climber -- though I haven't kept track of the number of routes; let's call it 'plenty' -- I'd like to weigh in here. Bob D, and others, state: "There are more important things than an arrangement of bolts on a face" or something similar. I agree, and there are less important things as well. Its the balance between pure convenience and ethics that we're trying to find. This is not a simple argument; climbing isn't simple, and it does it and this discussion a disservice to treat it as such. Ron states: "Its just a game, folks", or something similar I disagree, at least largely. Even after reading the sad story of Beth Coates. Sure, climbing is not war, or solving poverty and world hunger, or curing cancer. But its also not "just a game" -- at least not to me. And, it is my opinion after 18 years of climbing that there's an ever increasing trend to trivialize the climbing experience, simplifiy it, dumb it down and reduce it to a small subset of what it really is. Climbing is *not* just a trivial, playful, passtime... it is a serious endeavor that requires concentration, skill, technique, practice and dedication. There are risks, they are part of the experience; why turn climbing into something trivial? I have *never* started up a route, in Eldo or elsewhere, considering it was "just a game" -- those that do, (Ron?) I suggest, should re-appraise their choice of activity. To take something like climbing lightly, to take a downclimb lightly, to take any moment of potential exposure lightly is -- as the Coates story exemplifies -- a grave error. But that is part of the experience!! That is part of climbing!! If you don't get that... well, then -- you don't get it. And, Eldo -- perhaps especially lately -- has been a sacred ground where those of us who appreciate the full experience of climbing can trust won't be dumbed down, and turned into something less. Keep the convenience bolts to the Sport Park. Vote "NO" on these conveniences and other attempts to reduce the experience of climbing to just a game.
When I said climbing was "just a game", I was not trying to trivialize it or imply that it was, or should be, risk free. Climbing is "serious play", as Steve Dieckhoff says. It's a game; a serious, potentially deadly game, that requires skill, concentration, vigilance, and constant awareness. Inattention, overconfidence, distraction, fatigue, hastiness: any one of these factors can precipitate a mistake that can kill even the most experienced climber. What climbing is not: a test of manhood or machoness, taking on risk and danger more than what is inherent in the sport. We climb for adventure, excitement, the joy of movement, the challenge of testing ourselves, the bond we share with our partners. But - it is a recreational pasttime; not something that is going to change the world in any meaningful manner. I draw the line at unnecessary risk: accidents waiting to happen.The 31-32m between the rap station on Knight's Move and the rap anchor atop the first pitch of Chockstone, for example. Anyone doing that rappel without having the ends of their 60m rope perfectly aligned could be in big trouble. The hardcore say tough; deal with it, you screw up, you die. I say move the anchor up 5 or 6 feet and allow people to clip in before coming off rappel at an exposed stance. In 25 years, I've seen my share of nasty climbing accidents and even have seen one person die right in front of my eyes; something I never want to see again. Climbing can never be dumbed down; risk is inherent in the sport. But foolish risks? Sorry. The game is already risky enough.
Is Ron the head of the ACE? If he is, shouldn't his views be unbiased? I do appreciate his encouraging of others to get involved in making decisions about managing Eldo.
Josh - I am not the head of ACE; Rick Casey is the ACE president. I am just one of seven members of the ACE board. I am speaking as an individual in my advocacy of the Chockstone anchor, and not as a member of the ACE board. For all I know, every other member of the ACE board could disagree with my position; I haven't asked them. In fact, I know that several other ACE board members have strong feelings against convenience anchors. My position on ACE in no way confers any special powers to make anchors happen. I will not submit an application to the FHRC for a bolt anchor on Chockstone. This anchor will never be installed unless someone else submits an application, and the application receives majority support from the climbing community. Frankly, I don't see this happening. My advocacy here is just trying to express another view, to give the "we like Eldo the way it is and don't want any more convenience anchors" folks something to think about. For me, there is more to climbing than just my experience of it. I often think about less experienced climbers and what difficulties they might confront. Handling a rappel rope that doesn't quite reach the next anchor may not be a problem for you or me, but I am saddened by the number of accident reports I've read of people going off the ends of their rappel rope and dying. I don't want to see this happen in Eldo. I'll bow out of this discussion now; I've made all the points I want to make, and I appreciate the fact that others, perhaps the majority of the climbing community, disagree with my position. I know we all care passionately about Eldorado, and want any changes to be for the better, not for the worse.
no offense, but what does an unroped accident have to do with this route? I have found bail booty on [Blind Faith], which is indicative of someone rapping off from the top of the first pitch. unroping is a personal decision, free soloing in [Eldo] is another altogether. I think [Chockstone] will become crowded as a top rope if there are rap anchors installed
My last comment on this thread has disappeared from the site. Let me reiterate some of the points I made and make a few new ones. I hope that no one "jerks" this post! 1. I am not the head of ACE; Rick Casey is ACE president. I am one of seven ACE board members. 2. My advocacy of the Chockstone anchor is as an individual, not as an ACE board member. I don't know how the other ACE board members feel about this anchor; I haven't asked them. In fact, several ACE board members have spoken against new bolted anchors atop the first pitch of climbs in the past. 3. My position on ACE in no way confers special powers to make new bolted anchors happen. 4. I won't apply to the FHRC for a new bolted anchor on Chockstone. I wanted to express another view to give the "we like Eldorado the way it is and don't want any new bolted anchors" people something to think about. 5. To me, climbing is more than my personal experience. I often think about less-experienced climbers and what difficulties they may confront. Dealing with a rappel rope that comes up short of the anchor may not be a problem for an experienced climber, but an inattentive climber could rap off the end of the rope and die; certainly there have been many accident reports to that effect. I don't want to see this happen in Eldorado. 6. Solid belay and rappel anchors are the bedrock of roped climbing.Having solid anchors in no way makes the actual climbing any easier! 7. I'm sure all people involved in this discussion care passionately about Eldorado; we all want any changes to be for the better, not for the worse. And finally, a pop quiz: What Eldorado classic now has a mid-pitch bolted anchor that is often used to bail from the route before the original end of the climb? Have you bailed from this route using this mid-pitch bolt anchor? Do you feel this anchor "dumbs down" and "sanitizes" the Eldorado experience? Or is it just a "convenient" way to do the climb today without having to go all the way to the top? If you have bailed using this anchor, don't you think it is hypocritical and elitist to argue against bolt anchors at the end of the first pitch of more moderate routes?
Tevis Bloom writes: "I think Chockstone will become crowded as a top rope if there are rap anchors installed". Tevis - Chockstone already has a rap anchor at the top of the first pitch; it's a bunch of slings around a block. The first pitch of Chockstone already is a popular top rope, accesible by leading the 5.7 first pitch of Knight's Move or Purple Haze.
Yes, the random removal of comments on this site (not just on this page) is starting to seem somewhat bizarre. I'm sure we'd all love to know what's going on.
It's called censorship thats what's going on.
I think cb.com has some bugs in its software that are causing comments to disappear. I posted two comments on routes in Clear Creek Canyon last night and now they are gone. No one would have "jerked" these beta comments, and the site administrators would have no reason to remove them. The site administrators need their software and database experts to look at this problem and fix it. In the meantime: don't get paranoid; I'm almost certain that comments are not being removed intentionally.
I have been quoted, but my post has been removed. I know there is already an anchor there. That is why some people don't see the need for another one...duh. anyway I thought that my comment was fairly simple and to the point, that it would be more popular as a toprope if it had bolted anchors. and that some parties hoping to lead the climb may experience more of a wait than usual because of the ease of TRing this route with bolts. either way, I'll use whatever is there.
I went back recently, and I have to admit that the sling anchor is total sheit. Perhaps a bolt anchor would be better than the decaying slings and rock mass. p.s. careful for the "chockstone"
The one leg of lamb chockstone near the bottom crux of pitch one will move in and out of its slot about three inches, but still won't come out. Did the second pitch for the first time yesterday and thought it was very interesting. It has some funky moves in there that get you thinking. Short and fun. You can rappell to the base with a single 60m rope from here or move down the ledge and use the other rap station.
I combined the first and second pitches today and it made for a nice, long pitch. I had avoided the second pitch for a long time but found it to be fun and well protected with small nuts and small cams. I was pleasantly surprised to find the bolt anchor at the top of the second pitch. You are missing out on some good climbing if you only do the first pitch!
I lead this yesterday combining P1 and P2 as my second 10a lead in Eldo. Combining both pitches is a solid and full value endeavor. Pro seemed fine on P! as I took a small fall on a #1 rock at the crux. The 2nd pitch was a bit trickier and spaced out pro for me. It took a minute for me to figure out how to protect the last traverse move. If you look close there is a good .5 Camelot if you don't mind giving up a handhold. The cam made it WAY easier to commit to the traverse moves. Oh and seriously guys... This is a beta forum for Chockstone. If you want to debate anchor ethics in Eldo. than maybe move it to the general forum?
Go for combining the first two pitches. It turns out into a great pitch, and there is a bolted anchor waiting to convey you down into the arms of your belayer after crying a little at the very top. Bring small nuts of the metallic persuasion and larger nuts of the other variety.
Oh and I don't know why everyone calls it a blind placement. You have massive feet and can place a nut clearly in view way above your head. Then just finish the crux and place another piece. Don't stop halfway through the 3 move crux.
I found a pair of shoes at the base of this climb today right after some people packed up for the day and left. Shoot me a message with how many people you were with and what brand of shoes they were, and come pick them up!


text:
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June 13th, 2006, 10:09 PM | #1 |
Call me grizzly ;)
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Revitalization of postindustrial areas
Hi guys!
I have to do a project about revitalization of postindustrial areas across Europe excluding Poland, so if you have any information (photos, articles or just names of areas which undergone a revitalization) about redevelopment of former industrial zones, don't be afraid to post it here I'll be grateful. Greetings! |
June 13th, 2006, 10:27 PM | #2 |
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Manchester, UK has undergone a huge transformation of former industrial areas, so have some of the other big UK cities but I would say Manchester has had the most change.
***OFFICIAL*** Shrewsbury Developments Thread Jonesy's travels Croatia, South Dalmatian Coast Montenegro - Mostar, Bosnia-Hercegovina SHREWSBURY - Shropshire - Manchester |
June 14th, 2006, 04:53 AM | #3 |
planning inaction
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I did a report on three in Toronto, I know it's not a Europe, but it's a great report. Let me know... firstname.lastname@example.com
June 14th, 2006, 11:28 AM | #4 |
Ciao stronzo
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in Milan there were renovation in the last 10 years and there will be in the next 10 years.
all the project for the future are under developement or approved. the most important that are COMPLETED are: Nuova Fiera di Milano (new Fair) in the old site of an oil company in the north-west Milan at Rho/Pero. 2 Millions of square meters, project by Massimilano Fuksas. today there is the world biggest Fair. there were built also the links with 4 highways and 2 new station of subway line M1. it was opened 1 years ago. New residential neighborhood Rubattino. area of 700.000 square meters it was built on the old area of Innocenti (one of the principal cars/bike company of Italy that closed in the 70's). the project was developped by Fiat. the works are ended for more than the 60% at the end of the works more than the 60% of the area will be a public park. New residential neighborhood Residenze Ravizza. area of 350.000 square meters. built in the old industrial area of OM Company, with project of Massimiliano Fuksas and M. Benati. works completed. the 50% of the area is a public park. New residential neighborhood EuroCertosa 600.000 square meters it was built in the old are of Oil Company Fina project completed. there are 6 tower higher than 80 meters. the 50% of the area is a public park. New Businness District of Sesto San Giovanni. built over the old industrial area of the Ercole Marelli. 350.000 square meters. today there are the HQ towers of Oracle, Datamant, Novell, Impregilo, Mediapolis, ABB and others and a new branch of Milan University I°. UNDER CONSTRUCTION: Milano Santa Giulia it the 2° biggest aea under redevelopement of Italy with 1.200.000 square meters. it is located where there were 2 biggest company of Italy, the Montecatini (chemical) and the Redaelli (iron). there will be a public park of 600.000 square meters, residential condos for more than 8.000 people, offices buildings for other 9.000 people, a Warner Village, the Sky-Mediacorps Southern Europe HQ, Malls and a Meeting structure for 12.000 people. project by Normarn Foster Milano Ex-Fiera (Old Fair District) after the end of works on the New Fair the old Fair, that is located close to the city centre will be totally destroyed and rebuilt as a financial and residential district. there will be a park of more than 350.000 square meters, 5 skyscrapers between 90 meters to 210 meters with project by Hadid, Libeskind, Isozaki. offices for more than 15.000 people, residential for other 6.000, a new subway line (M5), a tunnel of more than 4 km for cars. Milano Area Garibaldi/Repubblica/Varesina its are 3 different areas one on the border of the others. one was an old railway station abandoned more than 70 years ago, the others are area that were never urbanizated. the 3 areas are in the heart of Milan in the Financial District. all togeater have a surface around 700.000 square meters. there will built a big park (300.000 square meters), a large publica square, some skyscrapers (from 120 to 180 meters or maybe 200 meters). project from different group as Pei-Cobb, Hines Developpement and others. 3 other skyscrapers will be presented in the next months. APPROVED Ex-Falck Sesto San Giovanni. it will be the European large area under redevelopement. It was the site of the Falck Company, one of the world leader of iron. more than 2.300.000 square meters of surface. around 1 Million will be a public park. the project was presented few days ago, by Renzo Piano. there will be more than 35 skyscrapers between 100 and 130 meters. then there are many others with small areas, between 100.000 to 200.000 square meters. all that are for a municiapl law will be have an half part of the redevelopped surface as Public Park. in less than 10 years with that law the green areas of Milan were biggest of more than the 55%.
"La paura dei barbari e' cio' che rischia di rendere barbari". Tzvetan Todorov. |
June 14th, 2006, 12:07 PM | #5 |
Call me grizzly ;)
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@Jonesy55, gruber: thank you for your help
@intervention: my report must cover only an area of Europe, anyway thanks Anybody has something more ? I know that those kind of reviltalization projects were introduced in France and Germany but I have to know the exact location of those achievements. |
April 14th, 2010, 03:06 PM | #6 |
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whatsoever, it's a great topic. and I wonder why not making this a forum for great modern revitalizations of postindustrial areas?! 'cause some of the projects are actually amazing.
April 14th, 2010, 03:39 PM | #7 | |
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Two integrated projects that come to mind from Romania: Iasi and Brasov former industrial sites transformed in "Silicon Valley" Post Industrial Zone and, respectively, into a mixed office-residential-retail areas (Coresi Brasov).
Silicon Valley Project (IT industrial site) taking place of a former textile industry site: Quote:
Hope it helps!
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld. Yes, it's Dracula's Castle Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania Castles and Mansions in Romania Nu devii batran fiindca ai trait un anumit numar de ani, devii batran fiindca ai dezertat de la idealul tau. Anii rideaza pielea, dar renuntarea la ideal rideaza sufletul. George Enescu actiunea2012.ro |
April 14th, 2010, 04:24 PM | #8 |
Espere verde
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Bilbao could be a good example. http://www.bilbaoria2000.org/ria2000/ing/home/home.aspx
April 14th, 2010, 06:03 PM | #9 |
Gente chunga
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Look for the former situation of Barcelona's Poblenou and the current project of 22@, you'll be surprised.
I think the best known interventions took place in former docklands though. London, Liverpool, Bilbao, Hamburg, Dublin... |
April 14th, 2010, 08:00 PM | #10 |
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Wow, this has been revived nearly 1,400 days after the last post, is that a record?
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April 14th, 2010, 08:06 PM | #11 |
Oh sweet lord Jesus
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What exactly are you looking for? Revitalisation of old industrial areas or revitalisation of more modern post-industrial areas (such as office parks etc)?
Isaiah 28:2 Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand. Matthew 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. |
April 14th, 2010, 08:54 PM | #12 | |
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I think the project in Brasov is quite interesting. Looks like a good thing, also because its not a 08/15 car over everything project. Ie even though a big shopping centre is planned, it is well connected with a pedestrian high street and the project features attractive residential quarters with office buildings next to them. And all the other facilities a quarter would need plus an expo. And all of that right next to the main railway station of the city.
"All European states are small. The difference is between those who know it and those who dont." |
April 2nd, 2011, 02:03 AM | #13 |
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More than 90 ha of city area will be totally reconstructed. Huge investment plans include: 1. Underground railway station, 2. New railway connection through the city center, 3. Special Art Zone, Special Cultural Zone, Streets of Four Cultures. The project is supported by public funds. The New City Center project creates opportunities for both institutional and individual investors. New city centre, as it is called both by the press and authorities, is going to be built on the base of a former factory district. new Art Zone: current look: city is known as a "Polish Manchester" One of the biggest infrastructural projects in Poland- new train station in Łodź- worth about 500m euro. it will be used also for HSR: The whole train station will be placed underground as opposed to what we can see now with Fabryczna's current incarnation. current look of the Łódź Fabryczna: bigger pictures: |
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Questions & Answers for Belkin 6' Digital Toslink Optical Audio Cable with Line-Out Adapter
Belkin 6' Digital Toslink Optical Audio Cable with Line-Out Adapter
17 Questions + 15 Answers
17 Questions from the Community
Would this cable work on iMac connect to logic tech z 906 speakers ?
- Asked by Phong T from Collingwood
- Aug 19, 2013
- Flag as inappropriate
Do you plug it into an Apple TV then to speakers
- Asked by Jack D from Brisbane
- Sep 22, 2013
- Flag as inappropriate
How does it work and what can I do with it
- Asked by Jack D from Brisbane
- Sep 22, 2013
- Flag as inappropriate
Answeryou could use this with the 3.5 mm adapter to plug your airport express into your stereo receiver for full stereo sound
- Answered by Patrick S from New York
- Nov 2, 2013
- Flag as inappropriate
What type of slot do you need to plug this into a tv or stereo
- Asked by Jack D from Brisbane
- Sep 22, 2013
- Flag as inappropriate
Would this be the correct cable to use to connect Airport Express to my home stereo system?
- Asked by An N from Toronto
- Jul 8, 2012
- Flag as inappropriate
Best AnswerYou can use this cable to connect your Airport Express to your home stereo (or theater) receiver if your receiver has an optical (AKA Toslink) digital input.
Apple Support has a How-To article about it, search for "How to set up and configure AirPort Express for AirPlay and iTunes"
The 3.5 mm output on the Airport Express is both analog and mini-Toslink optical, just like on a Mac.
The Airport Express has an internal Digital to Analog Converter (DAC) which provides the signal for the analog output. Experts report that the internal DAC sounds good, especially in early versions of the Express. My experience agrees with this. The DAC is however limited to CD quality output (16-bit PCM encoding at 44.1 kHz sampling rate) which means if you send it a higher resolution encoding it will be down sampled to 16-bit/44.1 kHz.
Whether to use the analog or digital connection to your receiver also depends on the quality of the DAC in your receiver (it has a DAC if it has any digital inputs).
When you use the optical cable to connect the Express to either a receiver or an external DAC+amplifier you bypass the Express' internal DAC and the external DAC receives the unconverted digital signal. If the receiver's DAC or external DAC is of higher quality/capability than the internal Express DAC you may be able to hear the difference. You can experiment with both the analog and digital out from Express to receiver to see which you prefer.- Answered by Edward A from Jacksonville
- Jun 13, 2013
- Flag as inappropriate
is there a splicer for optical audio cable 2 females to male
- Asked by Jeffrey G
- Aug 31, 2013
- Flag as inappropriate
Which has the best audio reproduction, the optical or HDMI connection?
- Asked by Richard C from Greenlawn
- Aug 19, 2012
- Flag as inappropriate
AnswerOfcourse the HDMI output will provide the best audio reproduction.
The TOSLINK optical output is limited to provide the uncompressed 2 channel PCM audio and compressed 5.1 audio LPCM. Whereas if you connect the HDMI output to an AV receivers which can support the DTS HD Master Audio, you can enjoy the uncompressed 24 bit / 192 kHz sample audio.
Hope this helps.- Answered by Raghuvaran P
- Sep 25, 2012
- Flag as inappropriate
Can this Cable works with Airport Express?
- Asked by Ivan A from Palos Heights
- Dec 8, 2011
- Flag as inappropriate
AnswerYes, with an adapter to mini optical plug. The Airport Express has both optical and analog outputs built into a single jack. The digital stream can then be given to a DAC or other audio device featuring an optical input such as an AV receiver.
- Answered by Darin B from Arcadia
- Mar 20, 2012
- Flag as inappropriate
Best Answer
Buy something like that:
Digital Coax & Optical Toslink to R/L Stereo Audio Converter
Find by google (canonot post link here).- Answered by Mario P from Scottsdale
- May 11, 2012
- Flag as inappropriate
do I have to use the optical output for sound or is there another alternative?
- Asked by Tony C from Haslet
- Mar 19, 2012
- Flag as inappropriate
do I have to use the optical output for sound or is there another alternative?
I have many albums on my IPAD and just bought an apple TV. I would like to play the music on my stereo system which is a Yamaha receiver but it is an older system and it dosen't have an optical audio input. Is there a way to connect the apple TV to the receiver without the optical audio cable ?
- Asked by Harris S from Sedro Woolley
- Mar 27, 2012
- Flag as inappropriate
AnswerYou'll need some kind of conversion for the audio signal, either an analog audio output from your TV (which might convert the digital audio that it receives over the HDMI cable), or a little box that converts the optical audio signal to stereo RCA signals. The converter box is about the size of a deck of cards, costs about $40.
One caveat here is that the cheapest converter boxes will only convert stereo, not the 5.1 or 7.1 dolby. You have to pay up $ if you want a converter box to do more than stereo. This means that movie sources that don't let you opt for stereo audio might not work with the cheap converter box. That might work if you rely on your TV for movie sound.
good luck,
matthew- Answered by Matthew J from Ann Arbor
- May 10, 2012
- Flag as inappropriate
Does the iPod nano (6th gen) have optical output on the headphone jack?
- Asked by Jeff R from Hotchkiss
- Oct 11, 2012
- Flag as inappropriate
how can i connect my apple Tv to my logitech 2.1 speakers through its 3.5mm jack
- Asked by Shiva Rahul B from University Park
- Mar 12, 2012
- Flag as inappropriate
Does this cable use plastic or quartz fibers?
I know that optical cables usually use quartz fibers, but sometimes plastic fibers are used to cut costs.
- Asked by Joshua B from Waterford
- Apr 22, 2012
- Flag as inappropriate
Can I use this with Apple TV to listen to music on iPad through my home stereo system. I have optical input on my reciever.
- Asked by Peter S from Middletown
- Feb 1, 2012
- Flag as inappropriate
Best AnswerYes, you can stream video and or audio from your iPad to AppleTV. If the optical output is connected to your AV receiver, then you will hear the audio stream from that device.
- Answered by Darin B from Arcadia
- Mar 20, 2012
- Flag as inappropriate


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Summit Thrift & Treasure in Breckenridge and Dillon is in need of volunteers and clothing, shoes, bedding, kitchen items, books, games and toy donations for our thrift stores. Sales from Summit Thrift & Treasure benefit the Family & Intercultural Resource Center (FIRC). We have locations at 1745 Airport Road in Breck and 340 Fiedler Ave. in Dillon. Donations are accepted from 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. Monday-Saturday at both locations. Volunteers are needed to sort donations and organize the store. Contact Anita at (970) 262-3888 ext. 306 for questions or stop in the stores. For more information, visit SummitFIRC.org.
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I've never owned a car
i did this thread before an it was a raging success.
you just don't turn it off.
I go around sticking gay pride stickers on random cars.
the lesbians next door have them on their car
surprised it's not mom mom kid dog cat
Yeah, but they pail in comparison to those jack offs who drive around in trucks with nuts.
what stick figures.
ok, who writes "goo goo at a at a, fukin jew heeb"?
"fuckyoubigot i dont like you're sig" "repeated annoying comments"
The Lord is not my Shepherd for I am not a sheep.
Banksgay loves them
He's got them on all his cars


text: I know I speak for a lot of people when I say: Id like to see more of an authentic trophy ceremony. After a long, grueling season in Career Mode surely the least we deserve is a proper celebration of what we, as a club, have achieved! Ive always felt the current style and representation of the Trophy Lifting ceremony has been nothing short of an anti-climax! Wheres the podium in the middle of the pitch, wheres the league representatives hanging those illustrious winners medals around the players necks and the cheers of the crowd as those players names are read out as they receive them and of course the roar as the CAPTAIN LIFTS THE CUP. In Wembleys case (or any other major stadium that has them) the walk up the stairs to receive their awards! In cup final matches let us see the losing team sitting around the pitch looking dejected and miserable, let us see them line up and clap the winning team as they walk to the podium or up the stairs to receive their medals/cup. Let us players that put in all those hours of match play, menu navigating, email reading, transfer dealing, youth development, BASK in the glory of our successes appropriately and one befitting a champion! THAT alone would be reward enough for all those hours spent!!! I feel in todays level of games development that this is far from a huge request. The gameplay is near perfect, so please make a little more effort on the aesthetics and that feeling of being rewarded at the end of a season for FIFA13. Every year I buy FIFA and pray to god theres been improvements on this and I am continually left feeling disappointed at the end of the season to see the same old rubbish scenes of my players lying on the pitch with the trophy and doing klinsmann dives at one end of the stadium. All my friends feel the same way, its the usual Oh, is that it?! at the end. I am continually leaving messages like this one on multiple forum sites, but alas my prayers have not yet been answered ..heres hoping its lucky 13!


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We stayed at River Cottage for a week. It is a very pretty building, and the surrounding area is full of French tumbledown charm and beautiful charolais cows. Inside the gite is comfortable in a rustic way, but I couldn't help thinking a little more attention to detail would have made it a superb stay. There is one double room... More
France >
Free Parking
Pets Allowed
Ranked #87 of 115 Speciality lodging in Burgundy
Price range (per night):
$76 - $302
- Official Description (provided by the hotel):
- Suze, a 14th century presbytery, has 3 independant self contained properties, 'The Retreat ' and 'River Cottage '. The Retreat has a comfortable self contained 1 bedroom apartment and River cottage sleeps 4. For something completely unique sleep in Kingfisher Deck or the Hayloft, both new additions to the property in 2012. Meals provided on request.Suze is set within a private walled garden in a peaceful rural hamlet. Riverside. It has a private bridge, a well stocked orchard and various terraces for outdoor dining. ... more less


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wow, looks very good. not sure theirs a whole lot to improve, unless those white boxes for the door get replaced with something more.... doorish.
but again, a very cool map.
Yet another one of my D&D rehashes. This is the second(ish) major map for WOTC's Thunderspire Labyrinth adventure.
The hold is a subterranean fortress guarding either side of a deep chasm. Originally built by minotaurs, the hold's current residence are a bunch of good-for-nothing, Underdark dwarf, slavers.
I'm trying out a couple of different things with this map, some to hopefully make things easier to play, and some because so many of my old maps were boring, empty, crypts.
Like my other maps, everything that I've done, is done in Photoshop. God only knows what the random pieces I've grabbed from the Dundjinni forums were made with.
The doors were actually a tough decision. I wanted something stylized and easy to see that stopped my players from having to ask me which way every set of doors opened. With the width of these walls, describing the doors as the stereotypical quarter arcs would have meant that most if not all of the door would be hidden by the wall, so something larger and more defined was necessary.
I'm open to suggestions however.
One option would be to use the quarter style but fill with black/grey and drop down the transparency and put it on the layer under the door object.
My Finished Maps
Works in Progress(or abandoned tests)
My Tutorials:
Explanation of Layer Masks in GIMP
How to create ISO Mountains in GIMP/PS using the Smudge tool
Unless otherwise stated by me in the post, all work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial 3.0 United States License.
This looks fantastic. I certainly love the feel of it. I like the idea that you used for the doors, and the simplicity of being able to tell which way they open out. Perhaps instead of using a white block, you could use a door, but have the mark similar to that of a building blueprint to indicate which way it swings outwards? Something still noticeable, yet less intrusive. The idea is very interesting, that it is built into the side of a chasm, love it The only other question I have is, why is it that one of the rooms (with the grates on the floor) is more blured than the other three? Not quite sure what is going on there.
JFrazier, I had actually tried that before, but they got lost. The problem I was running into was that the walls are a good 3 or 4 feet thick, so the "realistic" arc that the door would describe was almost entirely swallowed up. I tried clearing out the sections of wall above where the door would sit, but couldn't stomach the loss of that manly lintel above the door.
I eventually gave up and decided to come back to it later and while marking where the doors were going to be, I realized that I kinda liked the little temporary markers I had dropped down.
JDC, that room is a supposed to be a series of old cisterns. One of them is currently full, the other three are being used as holding pens.
Ok... Personally, I don't think the effect the lintel's provide enough positive to counteract the negative of the out of style door representation. But, hey, it's your map. Either way, other than the doors, I think it's a very good map and nice style.
My Finished Maps
Works in Progress(or abandoned tests)
My Tutorials:
Explanation of Layer Masks in GIMP
How to create ISO Mountains in GIMP/PS using the Smudge tool
Unless otherwise stated by me in the post, all work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial 3.0 United States License.
I'm not sure what software you are using but you might just create your own custom door arc graphic. In GIMP you can create your own brushes and that has to be true of the others I imagine. Anyway, I would try it by just making the same type of door arc but using the path tool just extend it so it's longer than the typical. That way you could still see it even with the nice wall mantel you have going.
Great looking map I'm going to rep you for it.
When its over and you look in the mirror, did you do the best that you were capable of? If so, the score does not matter. But if you find that you did your best you were capable of, you will find it to your liking. -John Wooden
* Rivengard * My Finished Maps * My Challenge Maps * My deviantArt
Anyone else try using this in Maptool and have trouble getting the grid to line up? Any help would be appreciated.


text: The Gallery News KOL x S2A 11 January 2010 Lauren Milligan MOST music fans agree that they are the coolest band on the planet when it comes to style, and now Kings of Leon are tapping in to their image as the hot boys of rock with a new clothing collection, in collaboration with Parisian creative collective Surface To Air. The twelve piece collection features the pieces that make up the Kings' rock uniform, including a vintage-inspired washed leather jacket, skinny fit jeans, a checked shirt, a classic grey T-shirt, a plaited leather belt and matching guitar strap and a pair of black leather boots. The band love to shop when in London - favouring Dior Homme, Burberry and the city's vintage stores - and fittingly the exclusive UK stockist of the KOL x S2A collection will be Chelsea's The Shop At Bluebird. Call 020 7351 3873 or visit www.theshopatbluebird.com for more information.CLICK HERE TO SEE THE KOL x S2A COLLECTION Related Gallery Best Dressed Men


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I wonder if he had the Halibut.
Beth likes ketchup on her oats and hay, how cute.
He is like those death camp victims in 1945 that were so starved they couldn't eat. Their systems had shut down so much that just a little bit of food could kill them.
any explanation where the pic came from? who I mean
And to think he got a nose job he is STILL fuckin hideous


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DA31066 - Kalorik Pink Steam Iron with Retractable Cord
This Product has been discontinued.
Shop similar Garment Care »
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Buy two and save! Two for $72. We love the body of this swinging tee of the season, crafted in a supersoft cotton/rayon jersey with a touch of spandex for a fit with just the right amount of flare. The colors are crush-worthy too, in every vibrant hue you'll want. Scoop neckline. Three-quarter sleeves. Below-hip length. Lightweight cotton/rayon/spandex. Imported.
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text: Went out an bought a new 2006 Rav4 limited. It is really nice. But the question is what to do with my 1995 Chevy blazer? My fuel pump went out for the third time. The first time it went out I took it to a small shop. They fixed it and about a year later it went out again. So I took it to the dealer and again they replaced my fuel pump, but this time I got a 12 mo/12,000mi warranty. So last week (10 mo/12180mi) my fuel pump went out again.... So I took it the dealer and they said it is out of warranty but let us check it out and we will see what we can do. They determined that the sending unit is frying my fuel pumps. And they want $1000 to repair it, and they are saying that since the sending unit fried the pump it is not covered under warranty!!!!! So now I can fix my truck for $1000 or they will charge me $300 to give it to me with a dropped fuel tank. My truck is a salvage title vehicle so not worth much maybe 2-2.5k if I can find a buyer. What should I do? I want to tell them that they should have caught it the first time and they should refund my money from the previous fuel pump repair, which would drop the repair bill to ~$400. Well we will se what happens when they open monday morning.


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ARC 2012: Multifunction Printers
4:00 PM EST Fri. Oct. 19, 2012Winner: Xerox
For the second year running, Xerox tops the Multifunction Printers category introduced in 2011. And in that year, Xerox once again outranked Lexmark, but did so this year by wider margins and in every subcategory. Interestingly, this year's third-place finisher was Samsung, which entered the multifunction printer market only last year. With Samsung's showing, HP slid into fourth place.
2012 Annual Report Card Home Page |
Xerox widened its lead over Lexmark in two of the three subcategories; its overall averages for each beat Lexmark by roughly five percentage points or more. Although ranking last, HP led the pack in two product innovation criteria--quality and reliability, and compatibility and ease of integration--and did so by a wide margin. But those scores were not enough to surpass Xerox, and it finished second in product innovation.
Xerox has the products to back up its product innovation win. Tom Gall, director of channel marketing at Xerox, characterized its new line of solid-ink color MFPs as a "solid upgrade in reliability and usability with functions such as scan-to-email." Also innovative is a three-level billing meter. Instead of counting black-and-white and color prints, pages are broken down by areas of useful color. "So, if there's just a color logo, most printers will charge for a full color job," explained Gall. But Xerox printers can measure the amount of color ink being used and charge accordingly. "That really changes cost structure for resellers," Gall said.
Building his business on Xerox innovations is Bill Loiacano, CEO of SPI Innovations, a longtime Xerox reseller based in Freeland, Mich. His company manages several hundred Xerox MFP devices. "PagePack is our program of choice," said Loiacano, referring to the Xerox print management solution. "Xerox has remote monitoring and management and it has data capture. We're able to collect data on consumables and impressions, and on parts about to go bad. That is all done remotely, so we're not sending a technician out on a wild goose chase."


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Our stay at this riad was magical - we stepped from the noise and confusion of the medina alleyways into a beautiful, calm, peaceful haven - Abdelila had a taxi waiting for us at the train station and he warmly greeted us at the roadway closest to the riad. We were delighted to learn that our room had been upgraded... More
- Also Known As:
- Riad 5 Sens Marrakech
- Riad 5 Sens Hotel Marrakech
- Official Description (provided by the hotel):
- Riad 5 Sens offers the 1001 nights in the 21st century. A place out of time, genuine and dedicated to the well-being! Completely rebuilt, Riad 5 Sens is the ideal place for yourself in a magical atmosphere where the tradition of 1001 nights combined with the comfort of the 21st century. An excellent value for your money. ... more less
- Reservation Options:
- TripAdvisor is proud to partner with Prestigia so you can book your Riad 5 Sens reservations with confidence. We help millions of travellers each month to find the perfect hotel for both holiday and business trips, always with the best discounts and special offers.


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SMF Support > Install and Upgrade Help
I cant download SMF and im a bit confused
first off,i cant understand the wiki at all ,Im not that great at computer program talk.
second,everytime i try downloading it this message pops up:
To open this file windows needs to know what you want to use to open it. windows can go online and look it up automatically or you can manuallly select it from a list of programs that are installed on your computer
First off, welcome to SMF! :)
You should Save that file rather than try to open it. Next step would be to FTP or even better use File Manager to upload that file to where you want to install SMF. Extract it (using File Manager). View the install.php file in a browser window and follow the steps. Have you created a database and tied a user to it?
Thank you!
ok i saved the file,easy.I think i saved it to a good file. But how to i go to file manager or 'Ftp'? sorry this is most likley my first time messing around with files and stuff.
File Manager would be hopefully through your hosting control panel (cPanel). This is the more effective method, although FTP does work...FTP...
How do I use FTP? / What is FTP?
Will it be labled 'Ftp" beacuse i dont see anything like that on my control panel.
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03-26-12 – Chicago, IL>Milwaukee, WI – We are looking for a dj who can play synthesizer, little bit as a DJ ..somebody who can put in our rock songs scratches and weird interesting sounds!..:-).. If you are this kind of talented person, or if you know about anybody like that, PLEASE contact me or tell you friend to contact us : Email : I appreciated that very much!!! I know it will be hard to find somebody like that, but he or she ( even better!!)….:-)) is somewhere there !!!! Thank you very much!!!! — Submit Yourself To This Role Now: 1
Click Here To Apply To This Casting Call


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Moderated by: javal1 | Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 |
"Lost Cause" | Rating: |
Author | Post |
Posted: Tue Nov 1st, 2011 06:09 am |
101st Post |
BobInFla Member
excerpt from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotton: "During the American Civil War, American cotton exports slumped due to a Union blockade on Southern ports, also because of a strategic decision by the Confederate government to cut exports, hoping to force Britain to recognize the Confederacy or enter the war, prompting the main purchasers of cotton, Britain and France to turn to Egyptian cotton. British and French traders invested heavily in cotton plantations and the Egyptian government of Viceroy Isma'il took out substantial loans from European bankers and stock exchanges. After the American Civil War ended in 1865, British and French traders abandoned Egyptian cotton and returned to cheap American exports, sending Egypt into a deficit spiral that led to the country declaring bankruptcy in 1876, a key factor behind Egypt's annexation by the British Empire in 1882. During this time, cotton cultivation in the British Empire, especially India, greatly increased to replace the lost production of the American South. " |
Posted: Tue Nov 1st, 2011 07:35 am |
102nd Post |
Hellcat Root Beer Lover
BobInFla wrote: The Souther anglophiles were under the delusion (of which they had many ) that the North was afraid of "The British Lion". Bullcrap! Sec of State Seward made it quite clear to the English throughout the war that the US would not hesitate to go to war with Britain if they did not respect certain issues. If that's the case, then why the concern over the Trent Affair? |
Posted: Tue Nov 1st, 2011 10:20 am |
103rd Post |
Texas Defender Member
BobInFla- For the most part, your recent postings support what I said in post #99. Our main disagreement seems to be over whether or not British troops coming from Canada could have made a great nuisance of themselves by forcing the federals to fight a two front war in effect. I don't see how having its forces divided (Especially early in the war) would not have had a greatly deleterious effect on the northern war effort. We apparently agree that even more significant damage would have been done by the British Royal Navy cooperating with the Confederates. In that case, the blockade would have been impossible to enforce. (And American commerce on the high seas would have been devastated). As for the previous wars with the British, the Americans could never have won a military victory over the British Empire. All that they could do was to accomplish a draw by continuing to fight until the British calculated that the price to continue was higher than they were willing to pay. That is precisely how things turned out. The southerners were in the same position in their fight against the federals. It was never their objective to: "Conquer the north" or to permanently occupy it. It was their plan to continue to fight until the northerners decided that it wasn't worth the price to continue their effort to: "Subjugate" (Your word, and an appropriate one) the southerners. Even without overt British assistance, the southerners were still: "In the game" until the re-election of Mr. Lincoln gave the signal that the northern people were willing to pay whatever the price was to achieve a military victory. Last edited on Tue Nov 1st, 2011 12:37 pm by Texas Defender |
Posted: Wed Nov 2nd, 2011 03:49 pm |
104th Post |
Cogswell Pepperbox Did I Fire 6 Shots or Only 5 ?
If elected to the Federal Presidency in 1864, McClellan would have stopped the war immediately. |
Current time is 01:46 pm | Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 |
Civil War Interactive Discussion Board > Civil War Talk > General Civil War Talk > "Lost Cause" | Top |


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BP Comment Quick Links
February 26, 2013 Baseball TherapyCan't Buy Me Chemistry?My wife and I have been married for seven and a half years. We dated for four years before that. There are days when it's eerie how in sync we are. We've gotten to the point where someone will say something and we'll both look up and smile knowingly at each other because we're both aware that the other's mind just went to the same obscure song lyric from 15 years ago. Yeah, I think we have some chemistry going. And then there's the chemistry I have with the man who probably controls my life even more: the best boss in the world, BP's editor-in-chief, Ben Lindbergh. He sent me an e-mail last weekend which contained a couple of quotes and an idea for an article on the subject of team chemistry. Since I wrote about chemistry a couple of weeks ago, he thought of me when he saw them. Remind me to send him some flowers. It's that odd time of year when players are reporting to camp after having been away for a few months. I'm sure it's a nice time to reunite with old buddies whom you haven't seen all winter but whom you spent six months with in rather close quarters last season. There's surely a lot of high-fiving, back-slapping happiness as guys get to catch up with one another. And it must be kinda tough for the new guys. After all, they walk into a clubhouse where most of the people know each other, and they have to be the new kids in school. We've also reached the awkward point in camp where teams are starting to play games but most players aren't at maximum effort, so there's not much to talk about other than the obvious five questions about each team that often have five obvious answers. It's noteworthy when anyone says anything remotely interesting. Brandon Belt was asked about the Giants' NL West rival, the Los Angeles Dodgers of Los Angeles, and how they have welcomed quite a few new faces into the fold recently. Belt stated, "You can't buy chemistry." Evidently he figures that since the Dodgers have a lot of new faces on the team, their on-paper talent may not have had time to jell yet, and so they might not be as fearsome as their projections indicate. Meanwhile, in Nationals camp, there was this dispatch from Washington Post writer Thomas Boswell: In an itinerant mercenary sports world, the Nats are recreating something from a previous age — as much as the era permits. They want to be a club that stays intact year to year in its core personnel. That way, they accumulate knowledge as a group from season to season. More important, they want to embed a clubhouse culture in which everyone aspires to ferocious focus.
10 comments have been left for this article.


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Imagine the difference we could make for animals if more of us leafleted on a regular basis. Follow these helpful tips for getting involved in this easy, enjoyable and simple form of animal activism.
Step 1) Getting Started
Many potential activists are reluctant to begin leafleting, as they feel uncomfortable approaching strangers. Don't worry, as you are not alone! Getting over your initial fear of advocacy is easy, yet crucial, as the animals desperately need as many dedicated and effective advocates speaking up on their behalf as possible. Here are some simple tips to ease your nerves and help you get started:
Step 2) Finding an Ideal Location
High foot-traffic locations are the best places to leaflet. With that in mind, consider the following places:
Be creative; many successful leafleters have found unique opportunities, such as the local appearance of a political candidate on a campaign tour or outside a book signing, that are ideal places for handing out vegan literature.
Step 3) Distributing the Best Literature
Mercy For Animals offers various educational pamphlets, ideal for leafleting events.
Vegan Outreach, an organization focused exclusively on providing resources to activists nationwide for leafleting events, also offers a number of compelling publications:
Click here to order literature from Vegan Outreach
Step 4) Recruit a Friend
Step 5) Dress to Impress: Looking the Part
Because most people quickly form opinions about other individuals based on their initial impressions, it is important to consider how your appearance can help, or hinder, your efforts advocating on behalf of animals. Your interaction with each leaflet recipient will likely be mere seconds, so make it count! Some good rules to consider are:
Because our goal is to speak up on behalf of animals, and not highlight our "individuality" during outreach events, it's crucial that our appearance help spread the message, not be a distraction or barrier.
Step 6) What to Say: Speaking with Integrity
Leafleting is a chance to reach people and engage in meaningful one-on-one contact that helps spread our message of compassion. Although no expert knowledge is required, it helps to keep the following in mind when interacting with the public:
A genuine smile, eye contact and friendly tone also do wonders at increasing acceptance rates.
An exhaustive knowledge of all of the issues is not necessary, but on those rare occasions when you don't have the answer to a specific question, it is okay to say "I don't know."
For instance, if someone says, "Oh, I could never imagine going vegetarian, I eat so much meat," you can say: "Why not try it gradually? Go vegetarian one day a week at first, or try making one meal each day a vegetarian one." Many other people will immediately focus on the one or two foods they could "never" give up, such as cheese or ice cream. Besides - or instead of - emphasizing the vegan versions of these foods, you can also encourage a vegan-to-be by saying, "Why not give up everything BUT cheese at first?"
These approaches will help on two levels: one, you are making it an easier transition for them by emphasizing that it can be a gradual process, and two, you are helping to represent our movement in a positive way, by acknowledging that the vegan lifestyle will not be judgmental or intolerant of others who are in the process of transitioning to a pure vegetarian diet.