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Topic: Have we ever introduced ourselves? (Read 30147 times)
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For crying out loud, act NOW!
Have we ever introduced ourselves?
November 05, 2010, 04:32:54 PM »
I notice that the Exiles board contains an introduction thread but I never saw one here. So I'm creating one.
Tell us about you.
Here's me:
I come from Godalming in leafy Surrey which is ideal for Fulham as it's just up the A3 for me.
I've been a Fulham nut for as long as I can remember (and some times that I can't remember too). My late father supported "them" but he was an old-school "them" supporter as LB can testify. He came from Battersea so used to do the "Fulham one week, the dark side the other" and, whilst we never went a huge amount when I was younger (about 5-6 times a season), the decision was always "Shall we go to the football? Yes? Who's at home?". With him being a blue, I decided to become a white to keep the balance, even to the point of wearing my black and white, home-knitted scarf to Slumford Bodge. This practice ceased when I saw a scarf just like mine hanging from a lamp-post at one game with a Newcastle fan dangling from it by his feet. Discretion being the better part of valour, I stuffed mine in my coat and stayed schtum.
I have been told that my enthusiasm for my team is infectious. Certainly I tend to find that even non-football-supporting friends keep an eye out for our scores on a Saturday. Even Mrs Airfix has been heard to say "we support Fulham" to a friend of hers. As you will have noticed already, I have introduced two Fulham fans (bigdaddyat and sipwell) to the FoF board and for that you have my heartfelt apology.
I never supported another team before Fulham - there was no time to do that but I do have a firm second team - the mighty Gs... Godalming Town. If I get a kitchen pass when Fulham are away and the Gs are at home, you'll find me at Wey Court. Life is great in the Ryman South 1st Division where you can stand, drink coke from cans, have a smoke and put your brolly up when it rains. That is what football should be about!
Being a Fulham fan has made me laugh and cry. It has brought me friends opportunities to go to places that I would never have dreamed of going (like Hull). I wouldn't change it for the world. Best fans you can get, bar none.
Did someone say bar....?
Posts: 2771
Re: Have we ever introduced ourselves?
Reply #1 on:
November 05, 2010, 04:52:37 PM »
What a good idea. For what its worth, here's my tuppence worth. I was first taken to Fulham in 1946. My Dad had died in June of that yeay, so it was left to my Mums brother (my Uncle Jim) to take me to Fulham (sorry Finn but he was a scouser) he had just been demobbed and decided to take in a game, fortunately for me, Fulham were at home, as I grew older and living in Peabody, I discovered that there were a fair few of us who were Fulham and a fair few who decided that Fulham Broadway (or Walham Green as it was then). Basically that is it, I am Fulham and will never be anything else. Thick or thin, good or bad, I am a Fulham fan.
Gentleman Jim
Posts: 6327
Re: Have we ever introduced ourselves?
Reply #2 on:
November 05, 2010, 05:08:37 PM »
First went to Fulham in 1963/4, born in Putney lived there till age 5 then moved to Filth territory Battersea, did as Peabody did when taken, one week The Bridge and one week Fulham but the Chelsea visit was only one week, soon as I walked through the park into the ground, saw all the flags flying, and as I have raved about for ever Jim Langley coming over to me as we stood by the railings of the Putney / Riverside corner noshing on the Percy daltons, he ruffled my hair ( I had some then) and said "should be a great game today boy" Hooked for life!!!
Posts: 1455
Re: Have we ever introduced ourselves?
Reply #3 on:
November 05, 2010, 06:05:33 PM »
Hello my names Andy but most people know me as fletch my first fulham game was some time in the late 80's we had a young ian dowie on loan from Luton and he scored that day We won 3-1. My mum and dad met at FFC and i have lived most of my life in fulham my family is a bit of a split between fulham qpr the dark side and Wimbledon no brentford. I am a season ticket holder and try to do as many aways as I can I have a 3 year old son who is fulham mad he went to his first fulham game at two weeks old ( we lost in the carling cup) I went to hamburg and cry at the thought of it never happening again. I am 29 years old and work as a gas enigneer I
sit in the hammersmith end and hate people who call it the hammy end I belive that one day we will win the cup and then the flood gates will open COYW'S
Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 06:07:50 PM by FLETCHINO
Gentleman Jim
Posts: 9733
Re: Have we ever introduced ourselves?
Reply #4 on:
November 05, 2010, 06:07:25 PM »
I posted most of this on the Exile site as that is what I am now I guess, but here goes:
Was born in London, in a part called Islington (Major Arsenal territory). My father was born and bred in SW6 and was Fulham through and through, as was his dad. The rest of the family (Mum's side & my Irish granny who gave me my name) all Arsenal except one uncle who always was Fulham. As a kid we moved back to SW6 and Fulham. My dad passed away when I was young, but not before he took me to Wembley in 1975. It is the best memory I have of him as he spent much more time in the pub than at home. My mom then moved back to Islington but my uncle took up where my father left and made sure I stayed Fulham and would take me to the Cottage on a regular basis. As I grew up, joined the Royal Navy, fought in the Falklands, came back barely in one piece but alive, graduated from university, started my own business, did decent I guess, and even opened a US office in New York. Had to get out of the London business as I got killed by the recession and Gordon Brown's insistence that no such thing existed.
Anyway, have now moved permanently to New York City and live with my native New Yorker girlfriend in Harlem. Fulham for life. The only problem I have is that I am not allowed to yell COYW's anymore as that causes some potential issues in my neighbourhood as I found out the hard way, and because COYW is a very difficult thing to control, I end up watching most games at home either on TV or computer with a generous helping of Mr Fuller's ESB.
I have been treated extremely well here in New York and by the Americans, and it is very hard not to like what I see. So to all the yanks out there, thank you!! COYW!!!!!
If you wake up in the morning and nothing hurts, you are most likely dead
Gentleman Jim
Posts: 9733
Re: Have we ever introduced ourselves?
Reply #5 on:
November 05, 2010, 06:39:21 PM »
Quote from: mrska on November 05, 2010, 06:13:11 PM
Quote from: FatFreddysCat on November 05, 2010, 05:33:58 PM
Quote from: mrska on November 05, 2010, 05:12:49 PM
How olds Otter ?
6 minutes younger than me..
And I bet he has been reminded of that quite a few times over the years Mr Ska...
If you wake up in the morning and nothing hurts, you are most likely dead
Mr Fayed
Posts: 11925
There is a place. Like no place on Earth.
Re: Have we ever introduced ourselves?
Reply #6 on:
November 05, 2010, 08:59:21 PM »
kader, your lot wouldn't have done any better in the fight than you did in the match, mate!
I'm HatterDon because my first football club was Luton Town in the mid-1960s [and because my name is Don
]. It was part of my bonding with my father-in-law that I became a Luton fan. My parents-in-law were Somerset folk who met and married in London during WWII [tha big one]. He worked for Vauxhall and moved to Luton when the plant did. They were all Gooners. Once my father-in-law passed and my wife and I split, I got a Bosman from Luton and wandered in the Wilderness for 30 years or so until I found Fulham. I started watching because of McBride, but became first a huge Boa Morte fan and then of Moritz Volz.
During my Luton days -- all but one season in the lower divisions -- I went to a lot of grounds, including most in London. 90% of the matches we watched were at the Highbury Library [what a horrible lot of 1-0s I saw]. I had a mate who also married into a Gooner family, and taking the tube down from Cockfosters meant little crushing on our way to and on our way back from a match.
I've mentioned this before, but Luton didn't give a toss about the Yanks down the road in the secret base who were football mad. There was no recognition at all for us and nobody much was very welcoming. I found the exact opposite to be true at Fulham, first gaining acceptance through FulhamUSA and now here. I have seldom met a more amiable and generous bunch than your good selves.
Currently, I've decided that my 3rd retirement shall be my last. I'll be 64 in a few days, and it's tough enough for people younger than Roy Hodgson to get a job, never mind geezers like me. After doing my bit for god and country, I got into teaching, and then assessment -- including running my own consulting firm for a while. Nowaday's my band and my writing take up most of the time that I don't spend on here, on FB, or obsessing about Fulham. I haven't been to England since I left in January 93, but I will be back THIS FALL, dammit. I've gotten too many invitations to wait any longer. I'd like to get back and get to see the Whites in person, while I still have some brain cells left to destroy.
I live in San Antonio, Texas, and will show any visitor the shortest route to the nearest Fullers ESB.
COYW y, viva Salcido!!!
If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?
Global Moderator
Gentleman Jim
Posts: 5409
Re: Have we ever introduced ourselves?
Reply #7 on:
November 05, 2010, 09:25:14 PM »
I'm a married with two young kids, 5th generation Californian who rides and races his bike a lot and uses butt butter liberally. Besides my own sporting activities, as a supporter, Fulham is it for me. I was a little distracted with my childhood team the San Francisco Giants the last 6 weeks, but always with an eye on the Cottagers. My Fulham commitment includes occassional 4AM wake-ups to catch matches but usually it kicks off at 7AM every Saturday or Sunday....... and the intrigue of the Prem, Fulham, and it's community has me addicted. The Cottage is in my near future. :dft010:
"We are all inventors, each sailing out on a voyage of discovery, guided each by a private chart, of which there is no duplicate. The world is all gates, all opportunities." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
The Doctor
Posts: 1537
Re: Have we ever introduced ourselves?
Reply #8 on:
November 05, 2010, 10:06:17 PM »
Hello all, I'm Jon and I'm a Fulham addict
I grew up in Motspur Park, back before it was a footballing hotbed and when it was only notable for one thing (a mention in a sketch on Monty Python's Flying Circus). I'm a Fulham supporter because of my Dad. He grew up in Napier Avenue, just behind Putney Bridge tube station. His Dad was supported the other lot in SW6, but they used do the alternating thing. In his teens, Dad decided he preferred Fulham as "they were by far the better team". That was when Haynes was with us, so enough said. His claim to fame was that for a short while Bobby Robson lived on the same street as him.
At about the age of five, I noticed Dad was disappearing every Saturday afternoon. The incessant nagging only an infant is capable of revealed he was going to watch football. I wanted to go. I wasn't allowed to go. There were tantrums. I still wasn't allowed to go. Much sulking ensued. Looking back, I'm not surprised he wanted to get away from the screaming brat. After a couple of years, I was finally honoured with a trip to the Cottage. I know we sat in the Riverside stand, probably so I didn't hear any foul language, and I still have vague memories of a smoky Benfica Bar with pennants on the wall and no queuing for a drink. Strangely, I have no recollection of the game, or even who we played. But I must have enjoyed it, because I wanted to go back. And we did most Saturdays - our little band: me, Dad and his old mate Ray. At the start of the next season, we moved to the Hammersmith, and I had a season ticket. By this time I'd worked out we were rubbish (this would have been at the height of our difficulties in the mid/late '80s), so I repaid Dad's gratitude by playing with a load of other kids on the old earth banks at the back of the Hammersmith End. In time, even that simple pleasure was taken away from me. The team went into decline and in the early '90s, Dad gave up going. Without money or parental consent, that was it for me too.
School was a footballing wilderness. None of my mates supported Fulham, being all Liverpool, Man Utd or Arsenal. Even my little brother (who'd come to a few Fulham games) turned out to be a Spurs supporter. None of then had ever been to a game, so I had to suffer the ignomy of getting grief from the uninitiated. Even had a Wimbledon fan giving me stick once. And the worst bit was there was no relief - relegation to the lowest division only made things worse. But then came Micky Adams, and then came promotion and that season the latent passion was unleashed. This was the first bit of success Fulham had had in my memory and I loved it. So what that we were runners-up in Division 4? It was ours, and I'd seen it first hand. I can still remember the excitement on the Tuesday morning following the Carlisle away game - I'd taped "Nationwide Review" (league highlights show on at about 1am on a Tuesday morning back then) and had heard that our winner was a bit special. Understatement of the century. First chance I got, I was off down the club shop to get my first shirt (I've still got it, and it still fits).
Towards the end of the next season, I was at a game against Watford and saw an advert in the programme for shop assistants for the new club shop. I was off to Uni and thought it'd be the ideal part-time job - it would provide beer money and I'd get to see most of the games. I applied and got a job, and I can honestly say it was the best job I ever had and probably ever will have. We got all sorts of crap from customers and colleagues, but by Christ we had some good laughs. It was there I met Fulham supporters my own age for the first time, and they're still good mates. One of them now lives in Australia, but barely a day goes by we don't natter about something Fulham related, and another has the seat next to me at The Cottage. I met another Fulham supporter at Uni and we all got into the habit of away games, was a great getaway for those of us working for FFC and a whole new experience for me. I'll never forget coming back from my first away league game (loss at Maine Road) and driving past Villa Park on the M6. One of my mates shouted out the window "We lost today, but we'll give you a hiding next week". Ever the optimist, I thought. One week later we were off our faces with delerium having trounced a team then topping the Premier League. But even then, I'd have laughed at you for suggesting that one day Fulham would be holding our in amongst those teams every season. I'd have had you committed had you suggested that Fulham would batter some of Europe's elite.
And yet here we are. I'm now 30, so I've given up on the childhood dream of playing for Fulham (they wouldn't have had me anyway, I'm an appalling footballer). I live in Reading, I'm a cynical sod and my every waking minute is spent trying to attain the title I so grandiosely go by on this (and other) boards. I'm not that screaming little brat any more, and Fulham aren't the same club. But we've still got each other and our little Cottage by the River. Long may that continue.
Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 10:08:48 PM by The Doctor
Posts: 1910
Re: Have we ever introduced ourselves?
Reply #9 on:
November 05, 2010, 10:37:26 PM »
Hi all
Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 09:50:27 PM by Scrumpy
English by birth, Fulham by the grace of God.
Posts: 2726
Re: Have we ever introduced ourselves?
Reply #10 on:
November 05, 2010, 10:37:53 PM »
Hello my name is John and I'm here because I have a problem with..... Oh no that's Monday nights, sorry.
Most people know my story so I'm not going to relate it all again. You just need to know that I live in Outback Australia, wrestle crocodiles, root Sheilas, write books, drink a lot, used to teach at Uni, believe Karl Marx was a legend, my best friend is a man of the cloth even though I am an atheist, saw my first Fulham game in 1951 and have been addicted ever since. Grew up in abject poverty in Battersea which ironically I wouldn't change for quids, got thrown out of school (which I hated almost as much as I hate QPR) when I was just fifteen and told that I would never make anything of my life. A Uni degree in Communications, the inaugural inductee into the Brisbane Advertising Association Hall of Fame, the winner of the HK McCann International Award for Media Excellence (the first Australian based person to win it) two books, a research paper on consumer behaviour and a thousand articles later I am still trying to prove my teachers wrong!
PS Okay so I don't wrestle crocodiles and anything that slithers, crawls or don't look like a human frightens the crap out of me. But what do you expect from someone raised in Battersea?
What we do for others will live on. What we do for ourselves will die with us
for sale to big 4
Posts: 724
Re: Have we ever introduced ourselves?
Reply #11 on:
November 05, 2010, 10:50:33 PM »
Hello my name is SuffolkWhite and I am also a Fulham addict.
I was not born in London or had any affiliation to London but my life was one of movement while young and 13 schools later and many homes I ended up in west London.
I used to play football in Bishops park and over the river at Barn Elms.
QPHAHAHAAAA was my nearest team but a mate took me to the cottage and the love affair started. It was the early 80's and my first game was a 0-4 loss to Oxford Utd under the reign of Bobby Campbell what a brilliant night, I loved it, and the crowed were singing for Campbell's head . What hooked me was there were not many Fulham fans at school and I felt part of a select few and the whole Fulhamish thing started, in truth the SuperMac era started at just the right time to hook me in further.
I watched Fulham for a few seasons and hardly missed a game at home and I went to many away games. When the decline came I moved to Suffolk and was skint, I missed whole seasons only reading the scraps in the papers about our team and worrying that we would go out the league with no ground. I take my hat off to you all who fought for the return to the Cottage.
Now I can make three games a year and managed six games last year, and the joy I get is worth every penny.
What ever happens in life there is always Fulham FC there for you, and if we were in Div 2 I'd still be in love with the club.
Guy goes into the doctor's.
"Doc, I've got a cricket ball stuck up my backside
"How's that?"
"Don't you start"
Travers Barney
Posts: 1300
Re: Have we ever introduced ourselves?
Reply #12 on:
November 05, 2010, 11:06:40 PM »
Suffolk...wern't many in that night but 'Campbell out' reverberatted around the ground with such volume and gusto that my pal and I still recall it to this day.
We are the whites
We are the whites
for sale to big 4
Posts: 724
Re: Have we ever introduced ourselves?
Reply #13 on:
November 05, 2010, 11:13:00 PM »
There weren't many going in those days Barney. I don't know what the average was back then for that season? But it can't have been more than 5000.
Guy goes into the doctor's.
"Doc, I've got a cricket ball stuck up my backside
"How's that?"
"Don't you start"
The Rock
for sale to big 4
Posts: 705
Re: Have we ever introduced ourselves?
Reply #14 on:
November 06, 2010, 01:04:14 AM »
This is the Rock. I am from Chicago, live in NY. I was not influenced by any club as a kid, and became enamored with Fulham as my friends lived in London and Brian McBride is from my hometown. I was in London often, but then I started coming just for the matches. Then I kept coming. Then, I had to live through 2 seasons of almost watching the club I support almost get relegated. I cried like a baby when we stayed up. Having endured that it was pretty clear I was Fulham for life. So now I can't get to many matches as I just had a kid. His name is "Robert Andrew". Perhaps you can guess where the name comes from.
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Edit: Dagnabbit, it has been confirmed that the photo is not of LB. The search continues.


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Che: a memoirIn a new, expanded edition of a best-selling Ocean classic, Castro describes a historic political partnership that changed the face of Cuba and Latin America. He vividly portrays Che—the man, the revolutionary, and the thinker—recounting in detail his last days with Che in Cuba, giving a remarkably frank assessment of the Bolivian mission. Fidel Castro, in an unusually gentle, quite emotional mood, remarks, "For me it has been hard to accept the idea that Che is dead. I have dreamed of him often, that I spoke with him, that he was alive . . ." Includes Castro's speech on the return of Che's remains to Cuba in 1997. |
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Avis d'utilisateur - Julie - GoodreadsInteresting read. For those who complain about this being a poorly written history book, it is written as a memoir by Fidel Castro. You must go in knowing he is not a historian and will obviously have a bais in his view of the events mentioned. I enjoyed the book immensly. Consulter l'avis complet
Review: Che: A Memoir
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Citations American Heart Association (2006). Diet and lifestyle recommendations revision 2006. Circulation, 114(1): 82–96. [Erratum in Circulation, 114(1): e27.] U.S. Food and Drug Administration (2004). What you need to know about mercury in fish and shellfish: 2004 EPA and FDA advice for women who might become pregnant, women who are pregnant, nursing mothers, young children. Available online: http://www.epa.gov/fishadvisories/advice. U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (2011). Mercury Levels in Commercial Fish and Shellfish . Available online: http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodSafety/Product-SpecificInformation/Seafood/FoodbornePathogensContaminants/Methylmercury/ucm115644.htm.
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- Buy a CD or a vinyl record, get a $1 Amazon MP3 Credit. Limit one promotional credit per customer. Here's how (restrictions apply)
Product Details
Would you like to update product info or give feedback on images? |
1. Liquor In The Well |
2. The Lord'll Provide |
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5. Mountain Mean |
6. Elma Turl |
7. The App. Rap/Grub Springs |
8. Uncle Josh |
9. The Scotsman |
10. Whiskey 'Fore Breakfast/Sailor's Bonnet |
11. My Spirit's Willing |
12. Directions |
13. Granny's Milk Cartons |
14. The Farewell Toast |
"The Scotsman" is a well-known funny song - one of those that you'll hear somebody try to sing after a party's been running for a few hours. Mike not only remembers all the words, but also throws in some nice guitar licks between verses.
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text:
Celebrities on the Campaign Trail
President Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama aren't the only ones spending countless hours on the campaign trail this election season. Celebrity endorsers like Tatyana Ali, Kerry Washington and Alicia Keys have rallied around the First Family in the run up to Election Day. Here's a look at celebs who've taken to the campaign trail.
Photo Credit: Trey Songz Twitter
- Love & Hip Hop's Joseline Hernandez Reveals Shocking Sex Secret
- 5 Best Morning Sex Positions, Ever!
- Morris Chestnut Reveals His Cast Crush From 'Best Man Holiday'
- Shonda Rhimes Shares 10 Juicy Tidbits For 'Scandal' Season 3
- Top 5 Mistakes Women Make In Bed
- Successful Black Females: Destined to Be Single?
- Kerry Washington Sings Duet With Jordin Sparks!


text:
A great baseball game is always fun to watch - especially when it's held in beautiful Suffolk County! Join alumni and friends at Bethpage Ballpark as the York Revolution visit the Long Island Ducks in what should be a great match-up. You'll even be able to catch up with friends and former classmates during a pre-game barbeque.
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RSVP by Monday, July 29, 2013
Reservations Online registration
More InformationIvelisse Ramos Office of Alumni Relations Tel (718) firstname.lastname@example.com


text:
This is the lady's brimmed hat with a ventilated crown that prevents heat build-up. Its solid, cotton twill top and 2 1/2" brim protects the head and face while its nylon mesh sides reduce heat buildup, combining superior sun protection with cool ventilation. An adjustable chin cord makes for a secure fit or easy hanging. Lightweight and crushable for packing and storage. Made in the U.S. If in between sizes, order the next size up. 4 1/2" H x 12" W x 14 1/2" L. (6 oz.)
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Hats for our Boating Group
By Kim the Boater
from Warren, RI
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The hat was a gift and the recipient loves it. We want to buy 3 more so the "boating" group has matching apparel.
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By Lady in the country
from Guthrie, OK
It looks and fits great.


text:
This glamorous French inspired wedding at the Emma Estate in Rancho Santa Fe, San Diego, was the perfect combination of elegance and beauty.
The wedding was all about the details with an array of lanterns, crystals, strung lights, a stunning draped tent, and vintage furniture surrounding the estate and gardens. This wedding was fit for royalty!
Thank you to all the amazing Vendors
Photography: True Photography , Coordination: Couture Events, Floral: Blush Botanicals, Linens: Concepts Event Design, Venue: Emma Estate
About the Author
Claire is the Director of Client Relations for Estate Weddings and Events and will often be the first person to greet you and answer any questions you may have about planning your estate event. In her free time, she loves to make succulent arrangements, homebrew craft beers and put her love of crafts to work! You can follow her here Linkedin or Google+.


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What about IPv6 right here on earth?
Posted Jan 26, 2011 3:42 UTC (Wed) by tialaramex (subscriber, #21167) [Link]
If you mean that they are literally not to configure anything whatsoever, including with autoconfiguration if that's provided by the OS then: No, obviously. Without a configuration change you're stuck with IPv4 and if we could have figured out a way to make hundreds of billions of nodes addressable using IPv4's 32-bit addressing, we would have used this hole in number theory to solve world hunger or make our own pocket universe or something not wasted time on trivia like the Internet.
If you meant reconfigure the local node (possibly automatically) but not any intermediary nodes in the network the answer is yes, with a caveat. You will have to tunnel, and so you may (will) have a less direct route than you would natively and the overhead of the tunnel. Several autoconfigurable (ie you say "I want to enable this" and then it works) tunnel protocols exist, with varying parameters for how much infrastructure someone else has to have built somewhere (an anycast address? a router? lots of routers?), what sort of performance you can expect and how robust it will be against badly designed NAT / firewalls / etc.
This isn't how things could really work for most people though. A world of tunnels and ad-hoc connectivity is not a future millions of people can live in, it's temporary local solution. ISPs will have to deploy native IPv6, the problem is that they should have done this (at least) five years ago, and instead they'll probably start just after it's too late.
Posted Jan 26, 2011 7:49 UTC (Wed) by bojan (subscriber, #14302) [Link]
Like this. I have my DNS configured now. I have my DHCP configured now. I have my static hosts configured now. I have my firewalls configured now. I have my services configured now. Without touching any of that (i.e. configuration), can I talk to IPv6 hosts out there? I'm guessing the answer to this question is probably no.
What DJB pointed out is that deployment of new software on all computers in existence is surprisingly easy (in fact, it happens all the time with updates). Deployment of new configuration is hard (each admin has to figure out their new addresses, firewalls, DNS, tunnels etc.). Ergo, IPv6 should have embedded IPv4 in itself. And because it didn't, we have the current interoperability disaster where hosts with IPv4 addresses cannot talk to hosts with IPv6 addresses natively.
Sure, eventually all this will be overcome and we'll all end up being on IPv6, but the plan was not very good.
Posted Jan 26, 2011 8:10 UTC (Wed) by dlang (✭ supporter ✭, #313) [Link]
the issue is having a transition while everyone still has addresses that fit in 32 bits that would allow some machines to be on IPv4 and some machines to be on IPv6, all talking togeather, and it would only be as machines started to use addresses that didn't fit into 32 bits that there would be any incompatibility.
If this had been done, most of the systems out there would be running IPv6 now, and talking to IPv4. but since IPv6 was made completely incompatible with IPv4, running IPv6 became a significant effort rather than a transparent upgrade. As a result, almost nobody is running IPv6 except as a showpiece or hobby.
Posted Jan 26, 2011 8:48 UTC (Wed) by bojan (subscriber, #14302) [Link]
I already have all this for IPv4, so doing this duplicative work is really idiotic. If DJB's suggestion was followed, my various OSes would already have been upgraded to understand 16 byte long addresses and it would just work.
PS. And I am actually interested in making a transition. Many large companies don't see anything being done related to IPv6 for the next few years at least. Simply too much hassle for no immediate benefit.
Posted Jan 26, 2011 16:10 UTC (Wed) by tialaramex (subscriber, #21167) [Link]
1. IPvDlangA is deployed on some boxes. This hypothetical protocol is just 100% compatible with IPv4 so these boxes can talk directly to IPv4 boxes.
IPvDlangA is junk - it doesn't get us anywhere we weren't with IPv4 so it doesn't matter if its deployed or not.
2. IPvDlangB is deployed on some boxes. This is a very sophisticated hypothetical protocol. It uses some magic IPv4 flag bits to detect other IPvDlangB boxes and when talking to them it embeds enhanced 128-bit addresses, with the top 96 bits cleared. To transit over the IPv4 network the packets must of course all have valid IPv4 headers too.
Everybody who gets IPvDlangB sees slower performance AND less bandwidth because IPvDlangB is wasting a lot of both. So every smart individual or organisation disables or avoids IPvDlangB. No uptake.
3. IPvDlangC does protocol conversion. It probes next hop routers (good luck with that) and if they also do IPvDlangC it speaks IPvDlangC otherwise it converts every packet to IPv4 and strips 96 bits of address. When receiving packets from such routers, it adds 96 bits of zeroes, and converts to IPvDlangC.
IPvDlangC is very resource-intensive, far more than mere IP routing. It would be tremendously expensive to deploy in core systems. This expenditure will never be authorised. In terms of development effort, code footprint, attack surface etc. it's much the same as the dual-stack solution today except without any of the benefits.
Do you have more options? We can look at those too (I can't promise to be swift, I have lots of real work to do)
Posted Jan 26, 2011 20:45 UTC (Wed) by dlang (✭ supporter ✭, #313) [Link]
you could have left the existing 32 bits of addressing where they are in the packet header and set an option flag to enable additional addressing bytes later in the header.
If you did something like this, the 32 bit addresses would route you to the ISP that handles the 'full' address, and that ISP could have a router that implemented NAT by just grabbing the bottom 24 bits of the expanded address space and using the 10/8 network with these addresses internally (or a different class A could have been allocated for this purpose)
this would have allowed the address space to be transparently extended from 32 bits to 56 bits without any existing routers needing to be changed at all (including home routers), the client endpoints would need new software to send the extended headers, and the ISPs that run out of addresses would have to have new routers to move the bits from one point in the headers to the other (which is a _very_ cheap thing to do, much cheaper than current NAT where the router needs to maintain a table of translations, time them out, etc).
systems with the new 'extended' IP addresses would have trouble initiating connections outside their ISP to endpoints that did not include these additional headers in their response packets, but all that would take is 'if you see this flag and extra info in the headers of a packet that comes to you, include them in the response', and that's a pretty simple thing for the OS vendors to do.
I'm not worried about network vendors doing this for the network gear, as that should not have to be maintained across ISPs
Posted Jan 27, 2011 12:21 UTC (Thu) by tialaramex (subscriber, #21167) [Link]
First of all you've moved the legacy 32-bits from a suffix, in one corner of the address space, to a prefix. So you don't actually fix the exhaustion problem, because now there are far more addresses, but they're still all allocated to someone already. So your whole plan just wastes everybody's time. Ouch.
And your "pretty simple thing for the OS vendors to do" needs to be done in every IP stack deployed, which realistically means it needs to be in IP itself, or in one of the very early tweaks. By the 1990s it's just too late to make a difference. (IPng working groups were created in 1992 or so)
FWIW Solutions that require time travel (e.g. to go change the IPv4 standard before it was widely deployed) are cheating. Sorry, try again?
Posted Jan 27, 2011 18:55 UTC (Thu) by dlang (✭ supporter ✭, #313) [Link]
and the IP spec has been changed over time to include new features. there are reserved feature bits in the header that could be used to indicate the presense of these changes.
this is just plain going to be a horrible mess. there are few possible outcomes
1. we have a long period of using NAT and then move to IPv6
2. we have a long period of using NAT and then move to something else (probably at least as painful in the meantime as the move to IPv6)
3. extensive use of NAT becomes permanent
4. the internet as we know it collapses (extremely unlikely in my opinion)
Posted Jan 27, 2011 22:49 UTC (Thu) by tialaramex (subscriber, #21167) [Link]
Surprisingly little has changed in IP, except in cases where two peers can identify that the other implements some newer feature. Most of what gets done in the stacks is optimisation, taking advantage of features that exist in the specification already. And sometimes even that fails - just because the specification says you can do something, does not mean it always actually works in the real world. Life is full of disappointments.
Yes, there will be a mess. That is not a new observation. We have no useful prior experience to judge exactly how big the mess will be. Some of the things we've been doing to try to give ourselves more time will, as with NAT, contribute to the mess.
FWIW Options 1 and 3 are the only ones that look reasonably likely. Option 3 is really bad, but only in the same way that widespread private ownership of motor vehicles was really bad. It didn't bring about the end of civilisation or anything, and it made our culture what it is, for better or worse.
Option 2 basically won't happen NOW (even in the unlikely event you can come up with a better alternative in our "What if?" scenario) because it would be too late to the party. Achieving even IPv6's tiny penetration will take an alternative decades.
Option 4 won't happen because people like captioned images of kittens. An expensive, inefficient network that continues to deliver cat pictures is still enough to keep the lights on at the ISPs. I'm being flippant, but millions of people are now used to having this service and paying for it. Address exhaustion doesn't make that demand go away. Of course "as we know it" could be construed to include Option 3 in some ways. A network without end-to-end is not the Internet we thought we knew and loved.
Posted Jan 29, 2011 7:48 UTC (Sat) by butlerm (subscriber, #13312) [Link]
Then NAT reigns supreme for several years while this IPv4 plus protocol gradually disseminates through software and hardware upgrades and ten or so years later the extended IPv4 plus addresses are actually routable across the public Internet.
Posted Jan 29, 2011 15:08 UTC (Sat) by cesarb (subscriber, #6266) [Link]
Posted Jan 29, 2011 16:53 UTC (Sat) by butlerm (subscriber, #13312) [Link]
I like a plan where a.b.c.d address format is changed to an administratively compatible format where each of the four components is a 16 bit number represented in text format in decimal form.
In binary form the IPv4 address C0 A0 20 01 would become 00C0 00A0 0020 0001. All existing address prefixes would be preserved, except in expanded form when represented in binary. In text format the address would be 126.96.36.199 in both cases. Then one day about ten years later, addresses like 300.278.22.1 would become publicly routable. Or even addresses like 6700.45320.658.33781.
A straightforward expansion would allow a variable number of components where the number varied from 4 to 8 or so. That way everyone with an IPv4 style 4 component address could add publicly addressable sub networks without getting a new allocation. The network core would generally only do routing on the first four components (64 bits) for economic reasons, but hardware routers with 128 bit prefix capability would eventually be come common, starting at large edge networks. Trailing zero bits would be implied.
Existing configurations would be preserved, although alternative netmask indicators would eventually have to be added, because a current "/24" would in actuality be a 48 bit prefix, and if you want to specify netmasks that end on any of the inserted bits a different syntax would need to be used. "//48" style perhaps.
One of the other advantages of a variable length addressing scheme like this is that most addresses would only be 64 bits, not 128, significantly reducing the overhead for small packets like those used in VOIP, especially on lower bandwidth connections. Who really wants their MAC address broadcast all over the Internet anyway? For servers, it is practically useless. For individuals it is a privacy nightmare.
TP/IX and similar plans
Posted Jan 30, 2011 15:15 UTC (Sun) by tialaramex (subscriber, #21167) [Link]
It's a huge sprawling mess, far more invasive than the eventual IPv6. I can only say that I'm indebted to whoever persuaded its author that his entirely new routing protocol and algorithms deserved their own "informational" RFC alongside this one, so that people asked to read about one needn't waste their time reading the other.
The economics (remember, that's why IPv6 has a fraction of a percent of penetration, rather than say 80%) are if anything worse. First you must get enough people to deploy "version 7". Your ten year estimate seems optimistic when you realise that although this costs a lot of money it delivers no immediate benefit whatsoever. Far more so than deploying IPv6 today, deploying "version 7" would have been a leap in the dark, trusting that some day we'd get the wider addresses working and it would be for the best. But then they must upgrade _again_ to have wider addresses. In fact they might have to do so repeatedly.
Ullmann's plan reserves 75% of addresses, rationalising that they can be used if the initial proposal turns out to be a bad idea. A similar strategy was chosen in IPv6. But Ullman reserves the wrong bits. An experienced engineer would know that if you leave the top few bits empty, some clown will either use them for a purpose you didn't intend meaning they can never be put into production, or they will confuse signed and unsigned terms and drop the top bit, again rendering it useless in practice. IPv6 was careful to use those top few bits for something obligatory, so implementers would notice and correct such bugs. [ For another example look at the way x86-64 handles virtual addresses ]
There are also numerous technical errors in the specification. e.g. Like some earlier LWN comments it assumes that DNS records are just arbitrary text strings so changing to a system where 'A' answers are sometimes too long for IPv4 is fine, everything will just work. Leaving aside the naivety of imagining that no-one would inadvertently rely on something that's been true for as long as the system has existed the simple technical answer is: No, can't do that, DNS unambiguously defines A records as exactly 32-bits. Hence the existence of 'AAAA' records.
Posted Feb 5, 2011 16:46 UTC (Sat) by butlerm (subscriber, #13312) [Link]
In short, the counterargument here has to be not against the weaknesses of a seventeen year old network proposal per se, but rather against the entire idea of preserving the existing address space on a long term basis without renumbering.
Posted Feb 9, 2011 14:21 UTC (Wed) by tialaramex (subscriber, #21167) [Link]
Reality isn't interested in proof by assertion, if I call a frog a bird it will not make it fly. TP/IX is a completely new stack. "Just" widening the address field (which is not what TP/IX does) is like "just" adding an extra floor to the middle of every house in the country.
"no one would have to dual stack"
"routers would do wire format conversion"
Do you even read what you're writing? In order to "do wire format conversion" the routers not only need to have both stacks, but they have to be able to convert from one to the other, a major additional expense. Worse, for TP/IX (and any alternative I can imagine) this is stateful. So the plan becomes "instead of buying an expensive IPv4 and IPv6 router, buy an even more expensive IPv4 and TP/IX router-converter" and you've made things worse, not better.
"technical errors in the TP/IX RFC have no bearing on the merit of the principle described. The IETF was just incredibly short sighted"
Of course, how stupid of me. It doesn't need to actually work, someone who needs things to work is being "short sighted". I can't address problems in a non-existent alternative and neither can the IETF.
Fortunately thanks to such "short sighted" people we have a plan, not a painless or easy plan, but one that will work. Now it remains to be seen if everyone will implement it, and how long that will take.
Posted Feb 9, 2011 17:21 UTC (Wed) by daniel (subscriber, #3181) [Link]
For the proposal at hand, which as I understand it is to extend the IPv4 address space by 16 bits on the right, an 'AA' record will do and only needs to be implemented at the edges of the classic IPv4 space. In other words, at points under complete control of participants in the experiment.
An 'AA' record would sensibly be defined with the classic IPv4 space in the middle four bytes, the IPv4++ bytes on the right, and the two remaining bytes on the left reserved for future expansion.
Posted Feb 8, 2011 18:45 UTC (Tue) by daniel (subscriber, #3181) [Link]
Wait, could you back up and step through that again for me? I fail to see why more addresses is not a step in the right direction, even if they are "already allocated to someone". Reallocate, maybe? Share maybe?
I'm labelling your argument "bifuraction" for the time being.
Posted Feb 8, 2011 23:56 UTC (Tue) by dlang (✭ supporter ✭, #313) [Link]
yes, my plan favors the established ISPs who have IP addresses as each IP address they currently have becomes a class A network (or larger), but in practice you have to get the established ISPs agreement anyway before you can use any IP addresses (they have to agree to peer with you and accept your advertisement), so I don't see this as a major problem
Posted Jan 26, 2011 12:24 UTC (Wed) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link]
Yeah. Nobody in IPv4 can talk to you unless you have a IPv4 address. In my case I will still use the IPv4 NAT firewall for that.
But if your running commercial services then you can use a IPv4 compatible IPv6 address.
Most commercial routers besides home consumer kits have been IPv6 for a long time now. Probably most stuff sold to businesses since 2005 or so has IPv6 support. Most corporations are going to have IPv6 aware devices on their network right now. My Android phone supports IPv6 access points.
It's going to be a security issue for a lot of networks... if I use IPv6 I can bypass most restrictions in most networks. Just because your not using IPv6 on your network, doesn't mean that somebody else isn't. :P
I'd say that most corporate networks deployed in 2006 or so is probably IPv6 ready now... or nearly so. They just have to turn it on.
There are enough reasons to use IPv6 besides just the bigger IP space that people are going to look back and say "WTF didn't we do this earlier?"
Posted Jan 26, 2011 14:23 UTC (Wed) by bojan (subscriber, #14302) [Link]
Posted Jan 26, 2011 15:20 UTC (Wed) by drag (subscriber, #31333) [Link]
Posted Jan 26, 2011 16:11 UTC (Wed) by bojan (subscriber, #14302) [Link]
In other words, systems would be upgraded to IPv6 in place, with no additional configuration required. Networks, dns, firewalls, services, routers etc. would keep working as usual.
We would have had almost 10 years for all this. More than enough. Too late now.
Posted Jan 26, 2011 19:27 UTC (Wed) by johill (subscriber, #25196) [Link]
You're assuming that it's all software, and that upgrading your stack to a hypothetical IPv6 that is fully backward compatible with IPv4 would essentially have been free. Neither of those is true. Vendors would simply have offered to sell new, improved revisions of their existing, "legacy", IPv4-only devices -- without adding the more expensive silicon that is aware of the new, longer address matching.
Posted Jan 26, 2011 22:18 UTC (Wed) by bojan (subscriber, #14302) [Link]
And that's fine. If they don't want to route new, IPv6, hosts. Ever.
However, people connected to their network would automatically start asking for this routing. Because they would already be on IPv6. Without doing anything. Any new host they wished to access that had a real IPv6 address (i.e. not legacy IPv4) would be out of their reach. This would create a lot of complaints (hey, my friend can see this cool new site and I can't), which would either get rid of idiotic ISPs or force them to upgrade. Without the need to tell customers that they need to do something special to see IPv6 hosts.
Posted Jan 27, 2011 12:01 UTC (Thu) by tialaramex (subscriber, #21167) [Link]
Posted Feb 3, 2011 14:43 UTC (Thu) by farnz (guest, #17727) [Link]
We already have the situation you're discussing - I have today's IPv6 and IPv4, and can get to any cool sites that exist on IPv6 only.
Problem; there are no cool sites that are available on IPv6 and not IPv4. The reason? If I'm available on IPv4, close to 100% of my target market can get to me; if I'm not, only a tiny fraction of a percentage point can get to me. The economics are simply not there; in your hypothetical "IPv4++" world, the idiotic ISP would respond with "you need to do this very complex thing (at least as complex as deploying IPv6 is in today's world) to get access - it's the site's fault for using IPv4++". Net result? Everyone continues to use plain IPv4, ignoring the extended addresses possible in IPv4++, because you haven't solved the chicken and egg problem.
Note also that thanks to buggy systems, it's not safe to dual-stack your hosts by default. There are machines out there which think they have working IPv6 routing, but don't - about 0.1% of Google users last time I looked for the figures. So, real world experiments tell us that even co-existence of two protocols doesn't work properly; this leads to a thought experiment. How exactly does IPv4++ handle the case of two IPv4++ hosts with an IPv4 only segment in the middle, such that you can successfully talk IPv4 but not IPv4++?
Any answer that assumes that IPv4++ can transit the IPv4 segment has failed already - IPv6 can transit over IPv4 segments, yet we still see brokenness. Any answer that implies that an IPv4 only host cannot distinguish IPv4++ traffic from traditional IPv4 traffic has failed already - the most common form of brokenness in the IPv6 world is IPv6 in IPv4 tunnelling, where the IPv4 network deliberately blocks protocol 41, and there would have to be some similar indication that this is IPv4++ traffic.
Copyright © 2013, Eklektix, Inc. Comments and public postings are copyrighted by their creators. Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds


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ejrdavies There was a denial around that time saying she wasn't in a film, but was taking part in camera tests, which must have been for Cloud Atlas.
21 hours ago.
BenderoffBram @JasonLaRose3 I liked it, reminded me of cloud atlas with the visuals
Mandafa Hmm. I liked him in Cloud Atlas. I wasn't crazy about SBC playing Freddie anyways, but idk.
22 hours ago.
MilaFella It looks like Cloud Atlas Jupiter Ascending Mila Kunis Channing Tatum. Jupiter Jones (Kunis) was born under a night…
23 hours ago.
jamiekilstein @exileinflyville I also bought cloud atlas cause I never saw you rec fiction
Exclusive Cast Interview Tom Hanks, Halle Berry, Susan Sarandon and Hugo Weaving share their thoughts on reincarnation while Doona Bae used to read how many books as a child?!


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Recent Movie News
Dick Dinman's Exclusive Interview with the Late, Great Eleanor Parker
- Dick Dinman's guest is INTERRUPTED MELODY star Eleanor Parker who explains in detail the incredible challenges she faced in her Oscar nominated portrayal of Marjorie Lawrence whose illustrious operatic career was sideswiped by polio.
What Ever Happened to Baby Jane?
- Bette Davis and Joan Crawford in an iconic film of the ultimate sibling (and some would say star) rivalry still rivets us fifty-one years after its big screen debut. But often lost in the discussion of the two stars, director Robert Aldrich and the film itself, is the story that it was based on.
The Wizard of Oz: The Official 75th Anniversary Companion
- Just in time for the films milestone 75th anniversary, the authors have amassed a treasure trove of material including a host of never-before-seen ephemera, and nine removable features.


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NEWARK Residents in the Vermont town of Newark are asking Gov. Peter Shumlin to appeal a state ruling that would allow a developer to erect test towers to monitor wind speeds in the area.
Seneca Mountain wants to erect the test towers, with the goal of building about 35 turbines in Newark, Brighton and Ferdinand.
The Vermont Public Service Board approved the nearly 200-foot test towers, one in Newark, two in Brighton and one in Ferdinand.
Two citizen groups, Newark Neighbors United and Brighton Ridge Protectors, sent a letter this week to Shumlins office asking him to help fight the boards ruling.
The governors office has not commented yet on the letter.MORE IN This Just InRUTLAND- The federal prosecutor's office in Vermont says a 31-year-old man is going to prison for... Full StoryMONTPELIER-Vermont's education secretary has announced the four high school seniors who have been... Full Story -
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What makes a good celebrity?
Perhaps someone who is comfortable with the spotlight, but doesn't court it too much. Can talk to people intelligently, with a sense of humor, but knows when to shut up. Is self-deprecating, so they beat people to any insult or slight. And is not so much of a party person that they end their career in a gutter or on a tabloid page.
That's the kind of celebrity that I would want to be…the kind of celebrity that Daniel Radcliffe is.
Daniel aka Harry Potter appeared last night at the 92Y on Manhattan's Upper West Side. He was interviewed by Jordan Roth, President of Jujamcyn Theaters, whose current productions include How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying, The Book of Mormon, and The House of Blue Leaves.
So they are both having a really good year.
Like all Brits, Daniel is more articulate than most of us. His answers to Jordan's questions were thoughtful, a bit rambling, and very funny. For someone who has been involved in the most successful movie franchise of all time, he is surprisingly grounded and humble about his role in it.
I've seen How to Succeed twice on Broadway, and he was as charming last night as Daniel as he was on stage as J. Pierrepont Finch. Only Daniel could get a crowd filled with kids, teens, parents and grandparents to cheer the fact that he is an atheist. The real gasps of horror came when he slipped and said he had a girlfriend back in London (which he tried to treat as a joke).
Jordan covered everything from Daniel's career, politics, religion, the economy, poetry and cricket. Daniel didn't shy away from any question, or from audience member's occasional outbursts.
He was, as he put it, 'just a 5'5″ nerdy guy who likes to watch History Channel International."
Well, then…that's who I want to be when I grow up.


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Available in 2 main variants: MPI STD BS III and MPI AC BS III. Metallic variants are also available. All variants are equipped with a 796cc 3-cylinder engine for an ultra-smooth performance. A 4-speed manual transmission is standard across the variant line-up. A refreshed cabin with reclining and sliding front seats, head restraints, front rear assist grips, a front door pocket, and dual tone interior upholstery that make long journeys a pleasure.
The Maruti Suzuki A-star comes with completely revamped interiors- premium and sporty upmarket upholstery. A flamboyant 998 cc KB series petrol engine powers this car which churns out 66 bhp@6200 rpm. The car is available in six variants with the transmission option of 4-speed AT/5-speed MT.The suspension device consist of MacPherson strut and coil spring in the front and Isolated trailing link and coil spring at the rear which imparts precise handling and ride comfort even on bumpy roads.
The new gen Alto 800 has undergone thorough upgrades. The Alto 800 now gets refreshing interiors, increased cabin space, a more potent engine and 15 Percent higher fuel efficiency. Apart from petrol, the Alto 800 will be available in CNG variants too. One of the biggest USP of the vehicle is its enormous cabin space with enough head and legroom both in the front and rear. The Alto 800 now comes in six color options - Frost Blue, Blazing Red, Torque Red, Granite Grey, Superior White and Silky Silver.
The Maruti Suzuki Alto K10 which comes with innovative new designs and powerful performance, is available in four variants LXi and VXi including two metallic variants. The Alto K10 boasts of a powerful 998cc, three cylinder engine that can pump out up to 67bhp. The Alto K10 features a 5- Speed Manual Transmission with Cable Gear Shift and MacPherson Strut in the front and Coil Spring suspension at the rear. The safety features include child safety lock and a high rigid monocoque frame made of high tensile steel and front and rear seat belts.
This MPV offers superior riding comfort, stability and handling. Available in four variants: CNG 5-STR WITH A/C+HTR, CNG WITH HTR 5-STR, AMBULANCE PETROL WITH AC+HTR and Flexi Green . The 1196 cc petrol engine that can give a power output of 73 bhp for CNG and 63 bhp for Ambulance. The dual tone interiors in shades of beige and grey provide a rich and spacious feeling. Notable standard features are heater, reclining front seats, sliding driver seat and tubeless tyres. Safety features include crumple zone, headlamp leveling and windows and high mount stop lamp.
The Maruti Suzuki Ertiga is a Life Utility Vehicle comes with many features. The petrol and CNG variant is equipped with 1.4 litre K14B VVT engine, where petrol engine churns out 93.7 bhp @ 6000 rpm and the diesel variant, loaded with 1.3 litre DDiS engine, gives out 88.7 bhp @ 4000 rpm. The engine is 5 speed manual transmission. The suspension system MacPherson Strut in the front and Torsion beam at the rear. Safety features include ABS with EBD, 3-point ELR seat belt, SRS airbags.
The new Estilo is a fusion of style and urban-ness that imbues an imposing feel with a luxurious fascia. Estilo comes in four main choices: LX, LXI, VXI and Green LXI. An impressive 1.0-litre K-Series 3 Cylinder fuel-efficient engine discharges up to 64 bhp and 84 Nm of torque. All variants get a 5-speed manual gearbox. Elegant dual-toned interior coupled with a highly proficient cooling system, front and rear seat adjustable head restraints, and a front seat back pocket for added comfort.
All new Grand Vitara from Maruti Suzuki is seen with reloaded power and style. Grand Vitara is available in both manual transmission and automatic transmission variants. The striking SUV is powered by a 2.4-litre VVT petrol engine with an output of 163 bhp. The interior of the new SUV is upgraded with new Multi Information Display , centre speaker on the dash board along with a 6-CD changer. Notable standard features include climate control and 17-inch alloy wheels.
A tough vehicle with an equally potent engine built to take on any terrain without compromising on performance. Available in 3 main choices : MPI Hard top, MPI Soft top and MPI Ambulance. Metallic variants are optional. Gypsy is equipped with a 1298cc, 1.3 litres, 4-cylinder engine that delivers 80 bhp of power and 103 Nm of torque. A 5-speed manual gearbox is standard. Interior features include reclining and sliding front seats, adjustable head restraints, and front seat walk-in assembly.
The Maruti Suzuki Kizashi comes in single engine and two variants. Kizashi is powered by a 2.4 litre, 4 cylinder 16 valve, DOHC petrol engine.Kizashi comes in two transmission choices: a 6 speed manual and a CVT (Continuous Variable Transmission).The Maruti Suzuki Kizashi features McPherson strut front suspension and multi-link rear suspension.It features a futuristic looking dashboard, a dual zone automatic climate control. Kizashi safety features include ABS with EBD, electronic stability program, Immobilizer with security alarm and Child lock.
This multi-purpose vehicle from the Maruti stables offers its owners value for money, low maintenance, and a trouble-free fun ride. The main choice of variants are: LPG Cargo BS III, MPI Ambulance BS IV , LPG STD BS III, MPI STD BS IV and E MPI STD BS IV including BS IV complaints. Metallic versions are also available. A 796cc 3-cylinder engine is standard and an LPG engine is optional. Interiors include a stylish dashboard and a classic two-tone upholstery and reclining and sliding front seats.
Maruti Suzuki Ritz is the first BSIV complaint car in India. The technologically advanced high performance engine and best in class fuel efficiency. The variants available are Lxi, Vxi and Zxi in petrol and Ldi, Vdi and Zdi in diesel. Available in two engine options- petrol and diesel. The engines are mated with 5 speed manual transmission. The 1197 cc petrol engine churns out 83.8 bhp @ 6000 rpm whereas the 1248 cc diesel engine churns out a maximum power of 73.9 bhp @ 4000 rpm.
Maruti Suzuki SX4 is a premium class saloon. There are three variants each for diesel and petrol along with a CNG fuel option. It has three engine options. The 1586 cc petrol engine with VVT churns out 103 bhp @ 5600 rpm and has a torque rating of 145 Nm. The 1248 cc Super Turbo diesel engine churns out 88 bhp @ 4000 and peak torque of 200 Nm. The CNG version of 1586 cc engine churns out 85 bhp @ 5600 rpm and maximum torque stands at 122 Nm, connected to 5-speed manual transmission system.
Maruti Suzuki Stingray comes out as a heartthrob hatchback from the Japanese auto major simply because of its looks. With about 5 colour shades and available in three variants the Stingray is offered with the popular 1.0L K-Series petrol mill. The three-cylinder K-Series engine of Stingray is known for its fuel economy and delivers an output of 67.1 bhp @ 6200 rpm with peak torque of 90 Nm @ 3500 rpm. The engine comes mated with a 5-speed manual gearbox which uses cable type shift mechanism.
The Swift offers superior riding comfort, stability and handling coupled with an improvement in fuel efficiency. Available in six variants: LXI, VXI, ZXI, LDI, VDI, ZDI, RS VXI, RS VDI and two engines such as petrol and diesel. Notable standard features of Swift are Multi information display, fuel consumption info, and remote back door opener. Safety features include side door impact beams, Icats and security alarm system to mention a few amongst many others.
The Swift DZire, which comes with an array of 150 new features, is less than 4 m thus qualifies the excise duty benefits. A flamboyant K-12 series petrol engine loaded with VVT technology and a D13A DDiS diesel engine powers this car. The variants available are LXI, VXI, ZXI, Regal and AUTOMATIC in Petrol and LDI, VDI, ZDI in Diesel. It comes with the option of 4-speed automatic transmission along with the 5-speed manual transmission. The safety features present are ABS with BA and EDC.
The car is powered by 998cc 3-cylinder K-10 engine that develops 67 bhp at 6200 rpm and 90 Nm of torque at 3900 rpm. Fuel efficiency of 20.51kmpl (petrol) and 19.3 kmpl (CNG). Safety features include central locking system, child safety locks, anti-theft alarm, rear seat belts, seat belt warning, keyless entry, engine immobilizer and centrally mounted fuel tank. It comes with power steering, power windows, accessory power outlet, rear seat headrest, rear reading lamp, and front cup holders.


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Sometimes You Fall
"You're not wearing a helmet. Is that because you want everyone to see that fancy hat you've got on?" This is Rapha Continental Rider Ryan Thomson commenting from behind the windscreen of "Big Jän" the dark blue Sprinter van that we have been piling in to explore road rides around the United States. It may seem a bit rude at first, but, Ryan has a right to say things of this manner to passing cyclists. One reason for this is because he always wears his helmet, always, you could say almost religiously. The other reason is because he took a bit of a tumble last week when we were riding through the Rocky Mountains of Colorado. He was wearing his helmet at the time, but the resulting injuries will keep him off the bike for the next six weeks.
There are people that wear their helmets all the time and there are people that sometimes choose not to wear them. They claim that it is too hot out, or they do not like the way that they look. Sometimes they do not even give excuses, they just do not wear them. Whatever it is, the key there is that it is a choice. You do not have to wear your helmet, really you do not. However, when you are flying down a descent at 40+ miles per hour and the car in front of you smoothly glides over a rock the size of a fist, disguising it until the moment it connects with your front wheel, you will be happy that you did. The other people that you are riding with, the ones that are there to help you into the back of the ambulance and shove your mangled bike into the the van, they will be glad you wear your helmet too.
NOTE: Aside from a broken scapula and a few scratches on his otherwise beautiful face, Ryan Thomson is on the mend. Thanks should go out to the two lady paramedics that stopped to help and the fantastic Emergency Response team from Aspen, Colorado. Ryan's euro-mullet was not injured in this crash.
Share this:
15th June 2011 08:05pm
Cyclists who ride sans helmet are so Fred. I'm glad Ryan is okay.
How did his Rapha clothing fare after the crash?
Jeremy Dunn
15th June 2011 08:06pm
Thanks Rodney, stay tuned for a word on the clothing. The Medic's scissors got it good…
Samuel Klontz
15th June 2011 08:20pm
The gloves appear to have done a good job from the first picture. Yikes though, that sounds like a horrific crash. Glad he is doing well. Best wishes for the recovery.
Otis Rubottom
15th June 2011 08:57pm
Evil can never be defeated. Heal up fast Ryan.
Brendan Ryan
15th June 2011 09:09pm
Glad he is OK. Will Rapha ads still use images with riders that do not wear helmets?
Ross Douglas
15th June 2011 09:27pm
Brendan makes a VERY good point.. Maybe this is something you guys should think about with your ads.. I for one would like to see that..
colin mcsherry
15th June 2011 11:44pm
Everyone has the right to wear what they want, but after seeing my father sprawled out on the pavement for not wearing a helmet. I realized that there are too many things on the line to not wear one. I will always wear mine and will do everything to convince my kids helmets aren't nerdy or uncomfortable. Keep em upright and be safe out there.
michael ghitelman
16th June 2011 03:32am
I'm reading this piece in bed at night; my broken arm and finger make it difficult to sleep. The road rash has mostly healed, now its a badge of honor.
On a 50 mile social ride we were descending after a long climb. At a leisurely 32 mph it only took another riders front wheel touching my rear to send us flying. My slide across the tarmac ended when my head slammed against the road.
While my body mends my bike has already been repaired; the wheel rebuilt, the shifter replaced, the bar rewrapped with new tape. Glove needed to be cut off, no repairing it.
When I mounted the bike that morning I didn't expect this. I am certain that had I not worn a helmet I would not be looking forward to autumn riding in a few weeks. Or looking forward to anything else.
Malcolm Bracken
16th June 2011 09:01am
When you're riding in a group, off-road, or competitvely where you might crash, wear a helmet.
When the danger's cars, they give you more room if you don't. Perversely you're possibly safer without.
Ian Winfield
16th June 2011 09:32am
Only a fool or a sad, vain fashionista does not wear a helmet.
Last year on the Brighton Gentleman's ride my friend Matt hit a pothole, catapulted in the air, landing on his bonce.
The helmet cracked in half and according to the medics in the ambulance, almost certainly saved his life.
The face is back to it's fuggly old self and even the skin on his nose has healed with the help of some medical honey. (down to the bone).
So I for one am thankful for a helmet, otherwise there would be no Matt to service my bike.
Take note Hoxton Hipsters. Nathan Barley mullets do not stop your head cracking on tarmac.
Daniel James
18th June 2011 12:54am
First, I am glad that Ryan is OK and will be. None of us likes to see a fellow cyclist or in fact any human being hurt in an accident.
Second, 18 months ago I bit the back of my head on the road after being hit by a car and flying through the air with the greatest of ease. I genuinely thought I'd done myself some serious damage as did the ambulance crew, doctors and nurses as they looked after me. Apart from serious whiplash and twisted tendons in my shoulder for my pains, I was relatively lucky. I put that down to wearing a helmet. I still get pains at the back of my head when I fly or go through tunnels on the train but the fact that I can still have those pains just goes to show me how lucky I was and makes me glad that I am still here. If you are riding on the road, wear a helmet- it is that easy.
Third, just to echo Brendan's point, how about ads with all riders wearing helmets when they are actually riding on the road? Off the bike and stopped, then fine, no helmets. Please seriously consider this. Nobody would think any the worse of Rapha if you did this. Wearing a helmet may not save you from serious injury but it might save your life. I know which one I would rather choose.
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- @CanyonUK Everyone loves a hug, thanks.
- @CanyonUK Do we win a prize?
- @c4shr Hello Kash, we're very sorry about that. We'll be in touch shortly to sort things out.
- RT @Strava: Are you ready for the @rapharacing #Festive500? we're challenging riders to clock 500 km between Christmas and NYE. http://t.co…
- RT @JeanzTweet: Yay! Won a nice wash bag & skincare kit at the @rapharacing #alpedquiz. First time ever i won a prize. You rock #teamrapha …
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- Congrats to yesterday's Alpe d'Quiz winner Ben Wooliscroft who won a pair of Rapha GT Shoes. Today's prize draw → http://t.co/h4frOXDYma
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- @Johnlovesbikes they are in transit and should be here later this week. Thanks for checking in, sorry for the delay.
- RT @tubbytrotter: Yay! I've just won the stunning @rapharacing Womens softshell in the brilliant #AlpedQuiz bring on the winter weather htt…


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Acetyl L-Carnitine is an amino acid-like compound that is related to choline and may assist in the conversion of choline into acetylcholine. Acetylcholine one of the body's key neurotransmitters chemically transmits messages from one nerve cell to another.
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Food and water are running low in some of the Colorado communities cut off by epic flooding, but well-organized residents are holding their own while awaiting rescue, officials said Monday.
"Within the communities, all of these people are helping one another out," deputy incident commander Chuck Russell told reporters in Larimer County. "They're being very resourceful."
Helicopters from the U.S. Army and Colorado and Wyoming National Guards took to the air Monday morning, fanning out across the region to rescue people stranded across hundreds of square miles of Colorado flooded when intense rainfall last week pushed streams out of their banks and sent walls of water crashing down mountain canyons.
"Our birds are up and flying," the Wyoming National Guard tweeted. "If (you're) in trouble, we will find you! We will get you to safety!"
Among those cut off were 15 Colorado National Guard members and other emergency workers stranded Sunday when rising floodwater forced them to abandon efforts to evacuate residents from flooded areas near Lyons, a National Guard spokeswoman said.
U.S. Army helicopters rescued the civilian evacuees and some of the National Guard troops and emergency workers, Colorado Air National Guard Master Sgt. Cheresa Theiral said.
A local family offered shelter to the stranded Guard members Sunday night, and on Monday the Guard rescuers went back to work with a door-to-door evacuation of some 18 houses in the area, according to Guard Lt. James Goff.
Goff added that on Sunday, more than 90 residents in Boulder County were rescued by Guard members.
While rescue flights resumed Monday, hundreds of civilians stranded by the flooding face a similar plight -- and a potentially long wait with so many needing to be rescued.
More than 1,000 people in Larimer County alone were cut off and in need of rescue, officials said Monday. If they remain cut off by ground and military crews can't find a way to land helicopters for rescues, authorities will drop food and water to keep people going until rescues are possible, Russell said.
More than 600 people remained unaccounted for in Boulder and Larimer counties alone, officials said Monday. More than 1,200 had been reported unaccounted statewide as of Sunday night.
But while authorities said the presumed death toll of six could rise, most of the people on the unaccounted list are likely alive and well but have failed to check in with authorities to let them know, officials said Monday.
Huge rescue effort
Despite bad weather that kept helicopters grounded much of the weekend, crews from the Colorado and Wyoming National Guards and U.S. Army had used helicopters to rescue more than 700 people as of Saturday night, a National Guard official said.
More than 2,100 people and more than 500 pets had been rescued by air and ground as of late Sunday, according to the National Guard.
Federal Emergency Management Agency Administrator Craig Fugate said Monday that FEMA teams were on the ground in Colorado to provide emergency assistance.
"We've already had 3,000 families register" since Sunday for FEMA aid, Fugate said, emphasizing that federal assistance will be granted based on need.
The air efforts may be the largest such evacuation in the country since Hurricane Katrina in 2005, National Guard Lt. Col. Mitch Utterback said Saturday.
In some cases, pilots had been flying night missions using night-vision goggles to rescue people, he said.
Among the rescues: Saturday's recovery of 78 children who got stranded while on a field trip.
"The helicopters -- those were the best," said 10-year-old Luca Voeller, one of the students on a field trip to a high-elevation camp when the flooding began.
Death and destruction
Eight people across the state have died, according to the Colorado Office of Emergency Management.
Four of those deaths include a man and a woman, both 19, who were swept away after leaving their car Thursday in Boulder County. Authorities said the woman left the car first, and the man jumped out to try to save her.
Another body was found in a collapsed home in Jamestown in the same county. Rescuers recovered a fourth body on a roadway in Colorado Springs in El Paso County. Details were not given on all the deaths.


text: GasBuddy Blog -- When Congress passed the $105 billion Surface Transportation Extension Act in June, its first major transportation bill since 2005, it secured funding for the Highway Trust Fund, the critical key funding source that reimburses states for spending on roads, bridges, mass transit and other transportation projects. That measure was essential to pay for hundreds if not thousands of badly needed infrastructure improvements. But, the bill ensures that highway and transportation funding remains at its current level only through the end of fiscal year 2014. Was it worth the effort? Many news organizations logically suggested that Congress needs to pass long-term legislation that does one of the following: A) raises the federal... Read the Full Article


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Abstract/Session Information for Program Number 973
Keywords: Molecular Basis of Mendelian Disorders, KW008 - BONE/JOINT ABNORMALITIES, KW018 - CHROMOSOMAL DELETIONS, KW019 - CHROMOSOMAL STRUCTURE/FUNCTION, KW098 - MUTATION DETECTION, KW099 - NATURAL HISTORY
Characterization of the structural aberrations and mutations of the RCCX module in patients with Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia and Ehlers-Danlos syndromes. W. Chen1, J. Yang1, M. Berk2, C. VanRyzin2, D. Merke2, N.B. McDonnell1 1) Lab Clinical Investigation, NIA/NIH, Baltimore, MD; 2) NICHD/NIH, Bethesda, MD. The gene2 encoding 21-hydroxylase (CYP21A2) and Tenascin-X (TNXB) are located within the HLA complex on chromosome 6, in a region of high gene density termed the RCCX module. The region has multiple pseudogenes as well as tandem repeat sequences that promote misalignment during meiosis leading to complex gene rearrangements, deletions and gene conversion events. CYP21A2 mutations cause Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia (CAH) and TNX deficiency has been proposed as a cause of hypermobile Ehlers-Danlos syndrome (EDS). We investigated the structure of the RCCX module in a cohort of CAH patients seen at the National Institute of Child Health and Development, and in Ehlers-Danlos patients seen at the National Institute on Aging. Southern blotting, PCR-based detection of deletions, and direct sequencing of exons of interest were utilized. A novel heterozygous 30 kB TNXB deletion that did not extend into CYP21A2 was found in a family with hypermobile form of EDS. CYP21A2 deletions were detected in 30% of the subjects in the CAH cohort, 25% of those subjects had a deletion extending into TNXB. Unusual haplotypes including three CAH probands with triplication of CYP21A2, and a sibling pair with a deletion of TNXB and triplication of CYP21A2 were identified through Southern Blot analysis. A novel mutation in a CAH family with joint hypermobility was detected in exon 8 of TNXB (c.G3452>A Arg1151His). This mutation involves the highly conserved fibronectin type III repeat in TNXB which is known to be involved in collagen fibrillogenesis, and was not seen in control subjects.


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A Lesson Before Dying
'CBS Has a Lot to Answer for,' Dan Rather Says of '60 Minutes' Report
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This public proposal at a Chicago Bulls game is as adorable as they come. Chicago Bulls "Luvabull" cheerleader Ariana Rosado was performing with her teammates during the third quarter of a recent Bulls game. The upbeat dance music suddenly switches to Bruno Mars' "Marry You," and her teammates…
Author Blog PostsSelena Gomez Curses, Storms Off Stage At Jingle Ball 2013
Selena Gomez was so displeased when her performance at the 2013 Jingle Ball concert went awry Friday (Dec. 6) that she cursed and stormed off the stage before finishing her set. The 21-year-old singer took to the Staples Center stage in Los Angeles Friday night to perform in KIIS FM's annual…
Huffington PostWhat Pre-Retirees Fear Most and Talk About Least
Less than one quarter of clients have had a discussion with their advisor regarding their greatest fear.
TheStreet.comShutdown Corner NFL Power Rankings: How much does losing Rob Gronkowski affect New England?
The New England Patriots were, mostly, an elite team with a healthy Rob Gronkowski. The offense was tremendous. The Patriots looked as good as they have the past few years. A collision with the Denver Broncos in the AFC playoffs … Continue reading →
Shutdown CornerSingle Dad Struggles To Find More Time To Spend With Son
DEAR ABBY: I am a single 25-year-old man with a 15-month-old son. (Shipping and handling are included in the price.)
Dear Abby4 Secrets to a Better Meatloaf
Make meatloaf special again.
Shine FoodMormon church explains past ban on black priests
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — After Mormon church leaders lifted the ban on blacks in the priesthood in 1978, church leaders offered little official explanation for the reasons behind the ban, saying only they received a revelation it was time for the change.
Associated PressPregnant Megan Fox's Baby Bump Peeks Out From Fitted T-Shirt
Three months ago Megan Fox confirmed she is expecting her second child with husband Brian Austin Green, and now the expectant mama's baby bump is showing. Fox's pregnant belly was seen peeking out from under a fitted gray T-shirt when she stepped out to grab some lunch with Green on Wednesday, Nov.…
Huffington PostClever Joint Solution
Surprisingly simple solution to help your joints. See why these ingredients are flying off shelves
AdChoices InstaflexSponsoredUruguay to become first country to legalize marijuana trade
By Malena Castaldi MONTEVIDEO (Reuters) - Uruguay's Senate is expected to pass a law on Tuesday making the small South American nation the world's first to allow its citizens to grow, buy and smoke marijuana. The pioneering government-sponsored bill establishes state regulation of the…
ReutersApple Imitates Santa with 12 Days of Gifts in U.S.
Traditionally only available in Canada, Europe, Japan and a few other countries, Apple is bringing its 12 Days of Gifts to the U.S. this year. That means the iPad and iPhone maker will offer a free video, song, game, book or app each day between December 26 to January 6, if you have downloaded the…
Tech Media NetworkSee All Of Steven Tyler's Rarely-Seen Children!
Steven Tyler makes some seriously beautiful babies. While we all know "Lord of the Rings" star Liv Tyler and most are familiar with daughter Mia Tyler , not many people know the Aerosmith frontman also has two other kids. Tyler actually has four children with three different women -- and this…
WochitThis is Why Deer Shouldn't Go Ice Skating
A lakeside resident saw the poor animals stuck on the ice and shared a photo of them on Facebook to help get the word out about their situation. James Kenison and his father Doug Kenison, owners of MedCity Hovercraft, a hovercraft tour and training company, knew they had the means to help the…
Author Blog PostsAmy Adams Is a Knockout in Lockup in an Exclusive 'American Hustle' Clip
Even in a holding cell Amy Adams still manages to look fab. Adams and Bradley Cooper face off in this new exclusive clip from director David O. Russell's upcoming drama "American Hustle." The film brings together several veterans of Russell's previous films, including Adams and Christian Bale from…
Yahoo MoviesDemocrats using new power to tilt appeals court
WASHINGTON (AP) — Senate Democrats are demonstrating their new ability to thwart Republican filibusters with a vote that would make judges appointed by Democratic presidents a majority on the nation's second most powerful court.
Associated Press