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EurWORK European Observatory of Working Life
European Industrial Relations Dictionary
Designed as an easy-to-use online reference tool, the European industrial relations dictionary is a comprehensive collection of the most commonly used terms in employment and industrial relations at EU level today. It contains over 350 entries, featuring concise definitions and relevant contextual information, with hyperlinks to EU legislation and case law.
The product of a collaborative effort between acknowledged experts in the field, the dictionary is aimed at policymakers, practitioners and all those interested in the history and evolving structure of the European Union.
Background information is provided on the industrial relations context, institutional framework, legal framework, collective industrial relations, individual employment relations, the enterprise, free movement of workers, discrimination and equality in employment, health and safety and movement towards an EU system of employment and industrial relations.
|Date of publication
|ICT-based mobile work
|03 December 2019
|05 September 2017
|Inclusive labour markets
|04 May 2011
|Independent professionals
|22 February 2019
|Indirect discrimination
|22 February 2019
|Industrial democracy
|22 October 2020
|IndustriAll Europe
|14 April 2014
|Information and consultation
|22 February 2019
|Information in the enterprise
|18 September 2018
|Infringements of EU law
|29 November 2010
|04 May 2011
|Integrated guidelines
|04 May 2011
|Intermittent work
|12 June 2015
|International Framework Agreement
|20 December 2019
|International Labour Organization
|19 September 2018
|International labour standards
|11 March 2007

subset: commoncrawl


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only107 hours and 1100 miles on this 2019
Find the deep end—and jump in. The Outlander X mr 650 gives unmatched mud performance with wider, revised suspension that makes the most of legendary Rotax® power and mud-specific upgrades.
This is not an offer for credit and should be used for estimation purposes only based on the information you provided. You should not base your decision on this estimate alone. Title, registration, tax and other fees, and personal circumstances such as employment status and personal credit history, were not considered in the calculations.
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Front - Arched Double A-arm with front sway bar
Rear - Torsional Trailing arm Independent (TTI)
Front / Rear Shocks - Oil
Rear Rack - 200 lb. (90 kg)
Rear Storage - 5.7 gal. (21.4 l)


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Hanley family name research in NC/SC/GA/TN/AL/MS/LA/TX
I thought I'd make Hanley family researchers aware of the FREE genealogy information available on the website www.alabamapioneers.com. Many settlers traveled to Alabama during the early "1800's" due to the opening of the Alabama territory. They often married in Alabama, had lots of children and traveled farther west around 1837 and the Civil War. You can also find the website by searching for the word alabamapioneers on Google
When you reach the site, Just type the name in the search box.
Donna Causey


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4 Responses to "Jennifer Eberhardt's "Policing Racial Bias" – Video"
February 4, 2009 at 5:00 pm
After watching this video, I found Eberhardt's "Looking Deathworthy" paper online, and encourage Situationist readers to also take a look. Unfortunately, there are some fishy things going on with the statistics, and I would urge psychologists to avoid taking her results at "face" value.
I'll restrict myself to the main finding that among blacks found guilty of killing whites, death penalty application was associated with stereotypical blackness ratings for defendant faces. Based on a high-low median split, 22 defendants were rated as stereotypically black, and the other 22 defendants were rated as not stereotypically black. For each defendant, there were also measurements on aggravating factors. Eberhardt and her coauthors claimed that death penalty rates significantly differed for the two groups defined by stereotypical blackness, even after control for aggravating factors.
1. In testing their main hypothesis, the authors report F(1,36)=4.11, p0.05.
2. The only valid explanation for this problem is that the F-statistic was rounded down to 4.11. In complicated studies where significance is just barely achieved, it can be fruitful to look for signs of data dredging. Here is one.
It is highly suspicious that the authors don't report any unadjusted association between stereotypical blackness and the death penalty. That is, whether anything was significant before screwing with aggravating factor covariates. What were the raw death penalty rates in the two groups: the stereotypically black group, and the not stereotypically black group? I'd like to know, and would also be willing to bet the difference in rates wasn't significant. Otherwise, my guess is that unadjusted rates would be somewhere in the paper.
3. The presentation of results must have been learned at Stanford from the Claude Steele course on ANCOVA and misleading bar plots. See Paul Sackett's critique if you don't get the joke.
The caption for Eberhardt's Figure 2 reads "Percentage of death sentences imposed in (a) cases involving White victims and (b) cases involving Black victims as a function of the perceived stereotypicality of Black defendants' appearance. Plotted in (a) are results given earlier in the paper, that "In fact, 24.4% of those Black defendants who fell in the lower half of the stereotypicality distribution received a death sentence, whereas 57.5% of those Black defendants who fell in the upper half received a death sentence."
Nowhere is it made clear that these are the adjusted numbers from the ANCOVA, not the raw unadjusted group rates I noted earlier were conspicuously absent. Even the stereotype threat researchers wouldn't have the balls to publish such a plot, and the ambiguity has the potential to be very misleading. If "Looking Deathworthy" had made a larger media splash, many would have undoubtedly made the wrong interpretation.
If there was so much ambiguity, why am I so sure the reported numbers weren't the raw rates? Because if you divide a whole number like the number of death sentences by a group size of 22, then even after rounding you couldn't get 0.244 or 0.575.
4. Even more problematic, I can't even figure out how the ANCOVA was implemented. The authors described their method as follows, where observational units in the regression are defendants:
"We computed an analysis of covariance (ANCOVA) using stereotypicality (low-high median split) as the independent variable, the percentage of death sentences imposed as the dependent variable, and six nonracial factors known to influence sentencing as covariates."
What in the world is the "percentage of death sentences imposed" for a particular defendant? A defendant is either given the death penalty or not given the death penalty, meaning the percentage is either 100 or 0. The more traditional covariance adjustment method for such dichotomous response data would involve logistic regression. I'd be willing to make a second bet: that logistic regression would fail to show a significant effect for stereotypicality.
5. No matter how the adjustment actually went down, aren't results after covariance adjustment more evidence of racism and Eberhardt's point than the unadjusted results, because skeptics like me might excuse the latter as being due to confounding. Yes and no.
Unadjusted findings set a threshold for credibility: if the effect doesn't show up unadjusted, it's usually time to stop looking. After an unadjusted effect has been found, cross-tabulation and regression can be valuable for probing whether confounding can explain it away. However, a lot of assumptions are needed if regression adjustments are to be taken very seriously and not simply exploratory, including linearity, constant coefficients, and exogenous errors.
Furthermore, it is much easier with regression than with raw rates to get results you want by messing with different variables or nontraditional and inappropriate models, making findings harder to trust, especially when other parts of the presentation are so deceptive.
February 4, 2009 at 5:13 pm
I accidentally deleted part of my point 1 before submitting. Here's how it should read:
In testing their main hypothesis, the authors report F(1,36)=4.11, p less than 0.05. Time to launch SPSS. Nope. If F(1,36)=4.11, then p exceeds 0.05.
February 7, 2009 at 2:34 am
[…] PLMS Tube, starting with Part 1 here. Or you can watch the whole talk directly on the PLMS blog right here. 30 minutes you won't regret spending. Posted in Conference podcast, Discrimination, Public […]


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Some say Obama's accusations against Romney for his record at Bain are reminiscent of Bush's attacks on Kerry in 2004.
Filed under: 2012 Election • Bain Capital • Mitt Romney • President Barack Obama
Swift Boat veterans were telling the truth about the very very rich liberal John Kerry. David Axlerod is lying through his teeth.
What was Romney being paid over $100,000 a year to do between 1999 and 2002? Nothing? C'mon!
Oh, sorry, six figures (or is it actually seven?) a year is just chump change for this man. He just lent his name to the company for that amount.
They are not similar to the Swift Boat nonsense. President is president. Romney was president and CEO and sole stockholder of Bain from 1999 to 2002. If he turned the company operations over to someone else, he was still responsible for what happened.
John King at CNN did a whitewash last year of this controversy. Is CNN trying to get another interview with Romney?
A couple of minor omissions.
=> No mention of the SEC statements was made; as this is the basis of the Dems attacks, this is a major omission.
=> All Romney has to do to stop this is release the board minutes proving he wasn't active in Bain after 1999, but he refuses to do so.
=> Or release his tax records for the same period, showing he wasn't being paid by Bain, but he refuses to do so.
=> And the GOP considered the Swift Boating of Kerry to be fair game at the time, so who is saying it is unfair now?
Romney and his outsourcing of jobs and hiding the profits in offshore bank accounts to avoid US taxes is not like the swift boat attacks on Kerry. It is more like the birth certificate attacks that the some republicans have put forth on Obama for years. A person running for President of the United States should have all their tax records as open records for the American people to judge. If you have nothing to hide, why so secretive? Where there is smoke, their must be fire. If Romney is proud of his record of outsourcing jobs to foreign countries for profit and what he did with the proceeds, including paying or not paying US income tax, then show us the returns.
SEC filings uncovered discrepencies between Romney's statements and the information submitted.. This is the reason why Romney is against government regulations. Without the required filings he would get away with his misinformation.
Let's be clear here. The claims made about John Kerry were false. They were out and out lies about his service in Vietnam put forward by a group of unprincipled veteran ideologues. Nothing that has been said by Obama's camp about Romney is untrue. Romney cannot have it both ways. On paper with the SEC he was sole owner and CEO of Bain until 2002, even drawing a paycheck, but insists he had no involvement. Simultaneously, he insisted to the state of Massachusetts while establishing residency for his run for governor that he continued to participate in business in the state. Even as governor he outsourced state jobs, so this claim by Obama is absolutely true. Romney's put his money in accounts in Switzerland and the Cayman Islands and has a corp in Bermuda. What's not true about that? He won't release his tax returns to refute the truth of any of these things. Did anyone really expect a man as smart as Barack Obama to just lie down and be rolled over by swiftboating Republicans who have unlimited Citizens United money for negative advertising? Get over it Republicans. You have a lousy candidate that all the money in the world can't salvage.
Anderson, we are counting on you not be like the other shows that don't exert some thought and insight.
What experts?! Experts on Swift Boating? The fact is that Romney held the titles CEO and President because he was not sure what he wanted to do. When he decided to run for Gov. he ended his tenure at Bain. Sure he was not playing the critical role he had, but enough to feel comfortable signing off on tax returns. The deals in question were ones he had initiated and managed. He is responsible for the trajectory he had started. Is he saying he would have made different decisions.
Lastly in the televised debate where he says he attended Bain functions and Board meetings indicates he was fully aware of what was happening. His attempts and plausible deniability is lame.
Romney held the position and took the pay. It does not matter whether he was there managing the day-to-day business of the company. If you're the boss and you get the pay, you have the responsibility. You don't get say I'll take the money and the title but don't hold me responsible for anything. If Romney thinks that's acceptable, his gargantuan sense of entitlement makes him unsuitable for president.
Anderson Cooper goes beyond the headlines to tell stories from many points of view, so you can make up your own mind about the news. Tune in weeknights at 8 and 10 ET on CNN.
Questions or comments? Send an email
Want to know more? Go behind the scenes with AC361°


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Do pro sports leagues have an Adderall problem?
- Saints kicker Garrett Hartley's Adderall admission in 2009 just the beginning of NFL suspensions
- In Major League Baseball, percentage of players approved for Adderall runs above national average
- Leagues say process for players to receive exemptions to use drug requires more than a prescription
In 2009, a 23-year-old New Orleans Saints placekicker was desperate to take something that would keep him awake for a long night drive from Dallas to New Orleans.
He took a half-pill of Adderall, and washed it down with a Red Bull. He made it to New Orleans just fine — kind of wired, he recalled.
A few days later, he was drug-tested by the NFL, and the result was positive. The NFL did not reveal the substance, barred by its collective bargaining agreement from doing so.
But Garrett Hartley went public: the positive test was because of the Adderall.
His case was basically Ground Zero in what has become an avalanche of Adderall news in the NFL.
Three years later, the Adderall-related drug suspensions keep on coming, including the latest — prominent Tampa Bay cornerback Eric Wright suspended four games Monday and claiming Adderall use as the reason. More than a dozen NFL players have either blamed their 2012 drug suspensions on Adderall or been connected to the drug by others.
The widespread use of Adderall in general highlights the complicated task the NFL — and Major League Baseball — face in regulating a powerful prescription drug that the leagues exempt as medicine for players who need it and classify as a performance-enhancer for those who don't.
The drug itself is misunderstood. There is a counter-intuitive aspect to how Adderall works. It is a stimulant, but it has a calming effect on those who use it to treat attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) by basically balancing out chemicals in the brain.
For those who don't need the drug, Adderall acts as a powerful stimulant — an alertness aid for students in an all-night study session, a pick-me-up for those wishing to extend the party, or, in the case of an athlete looking to gain an edge, an energy boost when they need it.
"It's a stimulant," NFL senior vice president of labor law and policy Adolph Birch says. "When taken in a non-medically-indicated, non-therapeutic use, it's a stimulant that can combat fatigue and feelings of fatigue on a playing field."
Adding some intrigue in the NFL is that under current league policy players can blame any positive drug test on Adderall — even if it was for a more stigmatizing substance such as steroids — while knowing that the league is prohibited from releasing information to the contrary.
The mystery in recent months is why have there been so many players drawing drug suspensions and admitting to using Adderall, which is commonly prescribed to children and young adults for treatment of ADHD, which is characterized by inattentiveness, over-activity and impulsive behavior.
Adderall, a brand name, is classified as a psychostimulant, related to other stimulants such as methamphetamine and cocaine. It is illegal without a prescription and is banned by the NFL, MLB, NBA and the NCAA.
Adderall is banned in the National Hockey League, which currently does not allow medical exemptions.
Athletes in other leagues can use Adderall by being granted therapeutic use exemptions, but the leagues say it is a misconception that any player with a prescription qualifies for an exemption. The pro leagues and the NCAA have a process to determine whether an exemption is warranted.
"The process in the NFL for obtaining a therapeutic use exemption on any drug I would say is extremely rigorous, and the number of persons who obtain them is very small," Birch says.
League officials, agents and health experts see a combination of possibilities to explain the Adderall trend:
- Players who have been taking the drug legally for years — since they were in college or even as children — and don't complete the process for getting an exemption.
- Players who have long used the drug but have never gotten a prescription. They — like many other Adderall users, athletes and non-athletes alike — acquire the drug from friends or family, who studies show provide up to 75% of prescription drugs that are used illegally.
- Players who decide to see if they derive any benefit from Adderall and run the risk of getting caught. Even if they do get caught (the drug typically stays in the body's system for about two days), there seems to be little stigma attached to a positive test for a drug so commonly used by the general public.
Because professional sports leagues have made allowances for those who are deemed to be in need of Adderall, and the privacy concerns tied to medical issues, there is a lot of uncertainty about how to react to what seems to be growing use of the drug in some sports.
In Major League Baseball, the percentage of players among 40-man rosters who were granted therapeutic use exemptions skyrocketed from 28 in 2006 to 103 in 2007, the year after MLB banned amphetamines like Adderall. That number has remained about the same since. In 2011 it was 105.
So roughly 9% of major league players are granted exemptions for drugs treating them for ADHD. By comparison, a study commissioned by the National Institute of Mental Health in 2006 found that 4.4% of adults ages 14 to 44 in the U.S. experienced symptoms of ADHD.
"To have doubled the population prevalence of a disorder is staggering," says University of Wisconsin psychiatrist Eric Heiligenstein. "Obviously, that's weird."
Ben Vitiello, a research psychiatrist with the NIMH, says that 4.4% figure cited in the 2006 study is probably still accurate, but says it's simplistic to claim baseball's ADHD prevalence is double the general population, because baseball's numbers reflect only men — who have a greater prevalence of ADHD than women.
Still, Vitiello looks at the 9% prevalence in Major League Baseball and says, "That's a fishy number."
MLB's Rob Manfred, executive vice president for labor relations and human resources, says the percentage differences are understandable.
"Our population doesn't look like the nation," he says. "We are younger. We are higher income, and there's no question attention is a key part of what these athletes do. So the idea that we would have a higher incidence rate than the general rate is really not that surprising."
The NFL does not release details on how many players hold therapeutic exemptions, but Birch says, "I can easily say that it's less than the percentages you would talk about on a national average with respect to Adderall."
The 'Adderall excuse'
When an NFL player is suspended for using a banned substance, neither the league nor the NFLPA identifies what drug triggered the positive test. Birch says the NFL would like to, for one reason to put an end to the "Adderall excuse" — players who use some other banned substance and get suspended, and blame their positive test on Adderall. Because of the NFL's confidentiality provision, the league does not refute players' explanations about their drug tests.
"We've been laboring to change that for years, but the union has not shared our view on that," Birch says. "We think it's important for everyone to know what the substance is."
Erik Burkhardt, Hartley's agent, says he believes Hartley talking openly about his Adderall use gave other players and agents the idea to take advantage of the current NFL policy when they test positive for a banned substance.
Speaking hypothetically, Burkhardt says, "Some 250-pound hulking linebacker doesn't look like he's human. Everybody suspects he's on something. And the agent can just say, 'Oh, he took an Adderall.' It's widely accepted. And it's proven they won't be looked down upon. I think unfortunately, it's been exploited."
The NFL believes its approval process thwarts improper use of Adderall. The league requires the player/patient to apply to an independent administrator of the NFL Policy on Steroids and Related Substances before he starts using the drug.
The administrator sends the application to selected specialists who review the player's medical diagnosis.
"The way our system works, it is difficult to obtain one," the NFL's Birch says. "There are certainly legitimate uses for Adderall and if people have a condition that legitimately necessitates it, our doctors and advisers will give it. But it is a very, very detailed process to obtain one."
The league's protocol may also explain why some players have prescriptions for Adderall but lack the required exemption from the NFL.
MLB also requires a second opinion. The league pays a board of clinicians to review each player's diagnosis to determine if it meets the accepted criteria, Manfred says.
Birch points out that an exact number of positive tests for Adderall is impossible to ascertain, as the NFL drug testers do not distinguish Adderall from other amphetamines.
Amphetamines have several performance-enhancing qualities, experts say. The drugs can disconnect mental from physical fatigue, allowing an athlete to push through tiredness. There's also a cognitive enhancement, which can help in learning playbooks or developing strategy. There's also the effect of offsetting high travel demands and jet lag for frequent-flying athletes.
It's use among the public makes it more acceptable. Studies have shown that Adderall is routinely used without a prescription by high school and college students.
Former NFL linebacker Bill Romanowski, an admitted steroid user who now runs a nutritional supplement company and is an Oakland Raiders TV analyst, suspects that many high school and college athletes have used Adderall to gain competitive edges in the classroom and on the football field, and now they have just brought their drug of choice with them to the NFL.
"They get to the NFL, and they're like, 'Well, I need an edge. And this is what I used in college and in high school.'"
'Hard time walking away'
Heiligenstein, the Wisconsin psychiatrist, says Adderall prescription misuse has been going on for 10 to 15 years and echoes Romanowski's view that it's a societal trend.
"If someone has misused, they're more likely to continue misuse," Heiligenstein says. "Many people have a hard time walking away from it because the drug has such a reinforcing effect. Many people say, 'Gee, I think I'll just keep doing it. I'm not sure I can be successful without taking it.'"
Heiligenstein says that while the misuse of opiates such as Vicodin and Oxycontin is a deadly, widespread epidemic, Adderall misuse is, he says, "an equally serious and terrible problem."
He cites potential cardiac issues with athletes who misuse Adderall, as well as dependency "that leads to much more serious psychological and physical problems."
NFL agent Hadley Englehard represents New York Giants running back Andre Brown, who was suspended in March for a positive test but won an appeal to overturn the penalty based on a mixup over his exemption. Englehard says Brown has ADD and has approval to take Adderall.
Englehard says the league and agents have tried to help players understand all aspects of the drug program but "at the end of the day, you have to look yourself in the mirror and know if you're taking something that a doctor has not prescribed to you, it's illegal and you're going to get caught."
Contributing: Jorge Ortiz, Brent Schrotenboer, Jeff Zillgitt


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It's day one of Microsoft BUILD, the company's major developer conference. Traditionally at these things (this is only the second BUILD, but before it there were almost 20 years of PC conferences that served a similar purpose) the keynote presentations are developer-heavy. The speakers tend to talk about Microsoft's latest developer tools and operating system platforms, do some programming live on stage (always a crowd-pleaser), and show off new testing and source control features—playing to the audience.
But today was different. BUILD's opening keynote was presented by Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer. Ballmer was in top form. Thanks to certain videos, the man's presentation style has developed a certain reputation: over-confident, volume cranked up to 11, bombastic, and, it must be said, sweaty.
Today, he was none of that. He was composed, funny, natural, and overall tremendously likable. He was, as always, excited about the products Microsoft is delivering, but where sometimes that excitement comes across as almost scary, today it was infectious enthusiasm.
Steve Ballmer is plainly a person who believes very strongly in the products that Microsoft has built, namely the recently-released Windows 8 and Surface and the imminently available Windows Phone 8. He believes in the underlying vision, and today, in his keynote, that's what he was selling to the thousands of assembled developers in a giant tent on Microsoft's campus, and many thousands more watching streams online.
The vision once had a name—"three screens and a cloud"—but that terminology appears to have been left on the scrapheap of history alongside the term "Metro". Even without this name, that is the vision that Ballmer was selling. Three Microsoft platforms: the PC/tablet (because for Redmond, the latter is just one kind of the former), the smartphone, and the TV-connected console-cum-media player. All three are unified with a common design and aesthetic, have a (somewhat) similar development platform, and are tied together with cloud services.
That vision still isn't fully realized, but it is manifest today in a way that it never has been before. This is Microsoft's platform, this is Microsoft's future, and what it needs from developers is simple: it needs them to buy into the platform and develop applications. It needs new applications, Metro-style applications, for Windows 8 and for Windows Phone 8.
Ballmer's job today was to sell that platform to developers. He had to get them engaged and excited, and most important of all, to convince them that the audience is there; he had to convince them that if they built their apps, there would be tens and hundreds of millions of Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 users to buy them. Build the apps and the customers will come.
How will Microsoft get those customers? A range of hardware spanning any usage scenario, from 10-inch tablets to 82-inch monster touchscreens including touch-screen Ultrabooks, all-in-one family PCs, and even powerful workstations, is a good start. This, coupled with a saturation marketing campaign, will be all but unavoidable.
For Windows Phone 8, Microsoft is betting big on Windows 8. With its common look-and-feel, the company is counting on Windows Phone 8 being the natural smartphone choice for Windows 8 users. Windows Phone 8 will be the smartphone that feels familiar to Windows 8 users, and thanks to cloud services like SkyDrive and Xbox Music Pass, it's the phone that will be best integrated and best connected.
Will developers respond? The response at BUILD was enthusiastic, but this is arguably to be expected. At BUILD, there's a certain degree of preaching to the choir—you don't generally attend a Microsoft developer event unless you're invested in the Microsoft ecosystem. The real test will be in coming months, when we'll see if developers are taking Redmond's platform seriously from the apps they produce. And the onus is also on the software giant to deliver the users it promised. Microsoft has built it, so will they come?


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Home » Sound Art - Radio Art » DREVER, JOHN LEVACK (ed): Sounding Dartmoor
DREVER, JOHN LEVACK (ed): Sounding Dartmoor
An unfolding of soundscapes made around Dartmoor. Beautifully done and great listening. Limited supply it's not a regular shop CD, though it is properly pressed and dressed, with good track data (and horrible grant-speak blurb that you can ignore; you have to talk this way to get money from ignorant and philistine funding bodies today). A fine and exemplary piece of soundwork.
Code: DREEVERSoundingDartmoor
Price: £14.50


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By Barbara Starr
Two Iranian Su-25 fighter jets fired on an unarmed U.S. Air Force Predator drone in the Persian Gulf on November 1, the Pentagon disclosed on Thursday.
The incident, reported first by CNN, raised fresh concerns within the Obama administration about Iranian military aggression in crucial Gulf oil shipping lanes.
The drone was on routine maritime surveillance in international airspace east of Kuwait, 16 miles off the coast of Iran, U.S. officials said. The Predator was not hit.
Also: U.S. adds to Iran sanctions
"Our aircraft was never in Iranian airspace. It was always flying in international air space. The recognized limit is 12 nautical miles off the coast and we never entered the 12 nautical mile limit," Pentagon Press Secretary George Little said in responding to questions from reporters after CNN reported the incident.
Little said the United States believed this was the first time an unmanned aircraft was shot at by the Iranians in international waters over the Gulf. In December of 2011, a U.S. surveillance drone crashed in eastern Iran. Iranians claimed to have shot it down, and created a toy model of the drone to celebrate its capture.
Little stopped short of calling the incident an act of war although the Pentagon was concerned.
Also: Obama faces world of challenges in second terms
Two U.S. officials explained the jets were part of Iran's Revolutionary Guard Corps force, which has been more confrontational than regular Iranian military forces.
At least two bursts of gunfire came from the Su-25s' cannons. The drone started to move away but the Iranian aircraft chased it, doing aerial loops around it before breaking away and returning to Iran.
The Obama administration did not disclose the incident before the presidential election, but three senior officials confirmed the details to CNN on Thursday. They declined to be identified because of sensitive intelligence matters surrounding the matter.
The drone's still and video cameras captured the incident showing two Su-25s approaching the Predator and firing onboard guns.
The Iranian pilots continued to fire shots that went beneath the Predator but were never successful in hitting it, according to the officials.
U.S. military intelligence analysts are still not sure if the Iranian pilots simply were unable to hit the drone due to lack of combat skill, or whether they deliberately were missing and had no intention of bringing it down.
But as one of the officials said, "it doesn't matter, they fired on us."
Little said the United States has to assume Iran was trying to bring down the Predator.
The United States protested the incident but had not heard back from Iran.
Iran has, at other times, been confrontational in the region. In January, the U.S. military and coast guard had close encounters with Iranian Navy vessels which approached at high speeds and exhibited provocative behavior.
Michael Oren, Israel's ambassador to the United States, declined to say whether his country knew about the incident before Pentagon officials
Nice shooting, Dickwads!
What planet are Republicans from??? Your boy got WHOOPED! It would have made such a difference if this would have came out before the election huh??? BUHAHAHAHA! You will never learn, hence why you are a DYING breed.
Simple truth, everyone's getting played by this administration at least I know it and have the guts to vote against it. The Dems are sheep for this administration. Bahhhhhaaaaa
America has spoken, no wars for zi0nism.
Wow. Did your parents have any children that lived?
Your an idiot.
Most American Jews supported Obama's win against the oppressive Republicans, and many heavily donated.
Sheldon Adelson has ruined Israeli politics with Bibi blowhard, and is attempting to do the same here.
Don't think Adelson represents the majority of Jews or Israelis for a moment.
Hello from Canada. I have to point out how utterly pathetic some of you people are. And hypocritical. If there was an Iranian drone within a thousand miles of the USA it would be shot down. The US has drones, warships, aircraft all over the middle east, you spy on other countries, you fly drones over their airspace...come on. Get bloody real.
As for you whining Republicans and other partisans on here–grow up. You are an embarrassment to your country. Are you going to spend the next four years crying on a CNN message board? What a disgrace.
That is a very good point, Fish . . . . complete hipocracy. So they took a few shots at a drone . . . what is the big deal?
Yet again, another self-righteous Canadian. Hello from elsewhere...
That is to you Fish!
Fish!! What would Canada do! Duh!
you tell em Fish. Can you imagine if an iranian military aircraft was flying 16 miles off the california coast? that's in viewable distance if you're hanging out on the beach. US population is too susceptible to propaganda. this is an american provocation of war, not and iranian provocation of war. Convenient that it came out the day AFTER the election. if you all think obama is going to stay out of iran, you're all kidding yourselves.
Hey Canada – I like your country, but your remarks are dead wrong. Does Canada do anything to fight for freedom? No, we do it for you.
We've had higher casualties than your country in Afghanistan, as a percentage of our population. We have been there fighting and dying for ten years you thankless POS. You're likely to ignorant and self-absorbed to even know that.
Sorry we sat out that stupid, illegal misadventure of your buddy Bush. Chretien had the sense to know better.
To compare the U.S. air space and drones off the Atlantic coast to conditions in the Middle East is ludicrous and totally in denial of the terrorist activities going on in the region. I would suppose you would compare Toronto as being in a similar state of affairs as Aleppo! How ridiculous.....stop drinking the Kool-aid and comment in some logical way to the current conditions around us.
Conditions? Right, conditions. If there were Iranian drones spying on our shores, your right, the conditions would be different. Conditions are as conditions do. So our government goes into a region, creates a certain "condition" which in turn justify their actions to people who are not willing to see what is going on. Which so happens to be a large majority of this country.
Ooooo the terrorists. the terrorist. Guess what, your government are the largest sponsors of terror in the world. You believe all the freedom and democracy BS? RIGHT. You're4 happy to prop up dictators if they do your bidding. And your terrorists are "freedom fighters". It's all for empire, and guess what? Yours is declining. It's over. One day you won't be the big one on the block.
Umm actually other nations do the same thing, and there are ample instances of drones, surveillance ships etc approaching American airspace, millitary assets, and American warships, it's a regular occurrence in fact.
I love to hear from Canadians. You have any idea why you dont have to pay fro a military? You think it may have something to do with living in the shadow of the US. Shut Up and enjoy your freedom paid for by the US.
As you can see , Fish, given the chance, the right wing in America would alienate every last one of our allies. I know you guys fight in wars with us, I've met your soldiers. Good thing the right wing has no idea how to win an election anymore. LOL
Ha! How cute! I know that are just going through withdraw since the NHL went on strike. Big boy countries are talking, so maybe try to be quite while your country's number one export is Bryan Adams CDs
Who do you trust?
Canada? LOL. If not for us you would bye part of Russia – eh
You know, a major reasons great powers fall is hubris. Like yours. The world is changing. People are getting sick of the hypocricy and bullying of your country. Read your history. You will not be powerful forever.
Preemtive nukes. Next question.
The nuke solution is for people who fail to think . . . . Why do you suppose they banned above-ground testing? Because of the loud noise it makes? . . . No . . . Because when a nuke goes off, it blasts radiation up into the stratosphere . . . . and it comes back down all over the world . . . including on you . . . . nice thinking bumpkin.
Even though it was in international waters, this was most likely a warning shot to clear the area. At this point the Iranians do not want to escalate anything. Not a threat to the pilot since they are in a remote location. It appears the point was taken and the UAV returned to base.
Thanks Billy Mitchell.
Their fighter jets are so bad they can't hit a freakin drone with 2 jets.
Obama told us he was going to rest relations with our enemies 4 years ago..i guess hen needs another 4 years
What should he do? Romney liked what Obama was doing with Iran, so he wouldn't have done anything different.
Obama Bin Laden will apologize for our drones being to close to their air space... Just wait and see. Maybe he will go on another apology tour because of this.
He should apologize for you. That kind of talk about a sitting President when something like this happens is a disgrace.
That, wouldn't surprise me a bit.
Dude, just move out of this country if you hate it so much.
Seriously? You wasted a good thirty seconds posting that? What, pray tell, does that comment have to do with anything other than indicating your serious difficulty with reality?
Yes, unfortunately ... Obama will need to go on another tour to apologize for the crazy Republicans! LMAO
The only person that should apologize is you, you ignorant load of sod. Its people like you that make this country look bad.
if you have so much Hate, Maybe you should Pack your S**t and go, Go somewhere where hate like that is appreciated... Say..Iran...
Typical Arab-ghetto bellicose mentality. One of these days they will provoke an unnecessary war.
You do realize that they are not arabs? You also do realize that the Persian Gulf is not the Gulf of Mexico right?
way to go CNN, cover this up until captain Clueless get reelected. You know he can't handle this. . .
How come Mormon Bishop Mittens didn't throw another one his press conference?!!! LMAO
When you say things like that it sounds like you have no ideas of your own and are just repeating things you've heard other people say.
Captain Clueless? Ok
Did you watch the 3rd debate? Romney agreed with Obama on everything regarding Iran.
Ohhh! If only America had known that Iranians fired on a drone and missed! 100% of Obama voters would have suddenly decided to vote for the whack-job party and their candidate Richie Rich who planned on lowering our deficit by tripling it.
Maybe the Iranians did this on the eve of the election to provoke a response. Maybe the Iranians would rather Mitt Romney was president and they did this to try and tilt the election towards him. It seems all the Obama haters here want our elections influenced by Iranian parlor tricks. That is why you are not in charge, you are all stones and no brains. But we'll need your guns in case the Russians ever invade. LOL.
Wow your rather unitelligent. Problems have been on the rise there and it happened Nov 1st. Now I know liberals are bad at math and 1 comes before 6. Watch big bird he can help you
Wrong again. see #3
: evening
: the evening or the day before a special day
: the period immediately preceding
Wow your rather unitelligent. Problems have been on the rise there and it happened Nov 1st. Now I know liberals are bad at math and 1 comes before 6. Watch big bird he can help you . You still have all the public funding you need including TV. Or call your local GED office with your free cell phone and book a class. One favor also, why is it so hard for Liberals to understand facts?
I read a lot of books. That is why I appreciate the nuances of language. I also like math, like 332-206 electoral vote counts. Loser.
Well said, John. Just was I was thinking.
@John,thank God the Mormon moron wasn't elected to have this problem to deal with because we'd be in a war and this chicken hawk would've had all 500 of his generals,admirals cheering him on ,yah know the ones that signed his pledge backing him in the Washington Post...
Sly you are an ignorant non american swim back to were you floated in from
It's an Illuminati, jewish sorcery, bilderberger NWO false flag operation and george bush is behind it all.
tell me you are not serious
You whining Republicans are SO PATHETIC!!!
No you spineless needy lazy liberals re pathetic?
"The Obama administration did not disclose the incident before the presidential election, .............." Now there's a surprise.
Why didn't Mormon Bishop Mittens throw another one his press conferences?!!! How interesting ...
It's obvious the President was briefed on it, but how would Romney have access to this knowledge? Your intelligence escapes you.
Mormon Bishop Mittens has been getting the same intelligence briefings as Obama since August.
That is why he jumped the gun on the Benghazi incident and embarrassed himself.
Doesn't a country have the right to defend its borders? America would also shoot down surveillance drones if another nation were spying on us. Seems like a perfectly legitimate act of self-defense to me.
Seems like some real state propaganda is going on here...
Uh, no we wouldn't... Lots of countries monitor the US, the soviets would park ballastic missile submarines off our coast and run missle drills. As long as they stay in international waters/airspace, we wouldn't touch them.
Well that's because the USSR had nuclear bombs, and Iran doesn't. It's why we invaded Iraq and never touched North Korea. The point is that we would never allow a military base to be spied on in our territories. The Air Force has the stated policy to shoot down surveillance jets.
This article is thinly veiled US Military propaganda. Guessing I just made the terror watch list haha
We're sending drones 16 miles off their coast, and they're the aggressors? What would we do if they sent a drone that close to our coast? It's time to start minding our own business.
Your Guru buddy Wrong Paul, his policies would lead to a world war.
Agreed! At 16 miles they could have thrown stones ta it! And the headline and insistence "unmanned" and "unarmed" ... whoopdee.That is completely irrelevant
A little idiocy here BOBJ. The world has shipping lanes that are in international waters that far off of the iranian coast. Countries around the world rely upon these lanes, and the US helps patrol them.
Who said that the drone was monitoring Iran? We have a presence in that area to keep the shipping lanes open of which Iran has threatened to close them. If it ever happens again, we should consider it an act of war and shoot down their jets.
I don't hear anything about a Russian or Chinese or Iranian drone flying off the Gulf of Mexico, near the U.S. why do we have drones flying near Iran which is not that far from Russia. A couple of days ago, the Russian foreign minister rejected any sanctions against Syria (which is Iran's buddy) and China backed it up. I think the East is getting tired of the West doing stuff in the East. Let's focus on fixing our own economy, and lots of other issues which George Bush left us with.
Ok Mr. Dumb Nut. Let these shipping lanes be closed and watch the world economy take a nose dive, including ours.
Its all good. Obama will just bow in the general direction of Iran and they'll like us again.
Don't worry ... Mormon Bishop Mittens will come the rescue and invest more money into their Chinese companies! LMAO
Then Mormon Bishop Mittens will call his best buddy Benhi Netanyahooo to draw his red line higher on the chart! LMAO
And Jeff,you will bow down and grab your ankles again,just like a good little conservative Republican.
I'm gonna avoid any political stuff and just laugh at the fact a Chinese Su-25 could not down an unmanned drone.
Bad Boys, Bad Boys, watcha gonna do, when an F-22 comes for you?
This isn't a football game hero.
You're either an enlisted GI, high school student or just your average American warmonger.
time to get off that high horse Paleo
@Paleo: You're either a high-schooler, or a 40yr old chuck norris keyboard commando. Which are you?
They were warning shots.
Yes, they might have been. You did you read the story? Military personal that ACTUALLY SAW THE VIDEO COULD NOT TELL.
Um, it's actually a Russian Sukhoi Su-25, was first invented in the 1970's, it's similar to the American A-10 Warthog.
SO, bad boy bad boy bad boy, next time read a fricking military book.
S-25 is a an Air-to-Air fighter. A-10 is strictly air-to-ground.
Nice try dumb @–
I'm glad you can read wikipedia.
Obama will apologize to Iranians that they got suckered into a SKETCHY deal from one of Mormon Bishop Mitten's Chinese companies! LMAO
Yeah it's a real laugh that they feel confident enough to fire on our drones with Obama as our leader. When has that ever happened before? Oh that's right NEVER. I guess you will be rolling over laughing when they fire on one of our ships and WWIII starts.
Hmm ... could it be because Obama has increase the use of drone operations??!!! LMAO
You think it's funny we have yet again been attacked by the Iranians? I can not wait till the us has to deal with a at home ground attack cause I think it will be funny to watch people like you lose your homes and lives then run to Obama for help who in turn will do nothing as usual.
IIt happened last week but no coverage until AFTER the election. That's interesting.
because it will be cried by Republicans that the president is using it to score political points.
A threat of war provoked by another country is ALWAYS in the sitting President's favor.
If it were reported BEFORE the election, the right wingers would say it was manipulation by the President to win the election. If it were reported AFTER the election, the right wingers would say it s manipulation by the pres ... Well, you get it.
Convenient timing.
I call BS here.
Down with this war mongering imperial stasi garbage nation.
Very conveeeeeenient. This happened on Nov.1, but the secretive Obama regime kept mouth shut thru election.
Only if you had known . . .
'taint happening, you CNN pu$$ies.
You thin-skinned apologetic spineless wimps elected one of your own to Commander-in-Chief and you can bet Iran, North Korea, and maybe even China are going to have a little fun pushing us around the playground for the next 4 years....
GWBush would be all over this, and put Iran in it's place. Obama? He's gonna try to "hug" Iran more. Get used to it, wimps.
A Muslim peasant threw a shoe at Bush ... that's how tough they think Bush was! LMAO
Enlist hero...
You should enlist. With a little bit of luck there will be another war and you can show the rest of us that you're a tough macho man.
We should also get used to more of yours and that of others right wing stupidity and ignorance.
At what point in time do Paul and Hadenuffyet actually stand up and FIGHT? Someone throw trash on your yard and you smile and wave? Someone come over and have a good time with your wife, you just slink off to the basement on your computers?
You sound like wimps – not ready/willing/able to stand for anything. So tell me, what WOULD it take for you to agree to a war with Iran??
Former Defense Secretary Gates ... a REPUBLICAN ... said that going to war with Iran would be one of the biggest mistake in US history if it ever happened
Are you offering to send yourself and your kids to go fight Iran?
Ask Romney.
LIke I said Etch, Dennis, et al....GET used to being pushed around the playground.....Your guy in the Oval Office is limp-wristed peter-puffer, like you.
None of you could fight your way out of a paper bag....
I seem to recall that ... Osama Bin Laden and the entire core Al Qaeda leadership are dead ...
I seem to recall that many of the dictators in the Middle East have fallen ... like that Gadafi guy.
I seem to also recall that Obama succeeded in getting the Russians and Chinese to support cripply UN sanctions against Iranian. Never done before by any other administration.
All under Obama's watch. These things don't happen by accident.
BldrRepublican:The more you post here on this subject,the more dumber you sound.Give it up son,your Mormon hero wasn't elected.He's not in charge and neither are you...But we know who is,and thank God,he's not a Republican or a Mormon!
BldrRepublican Did you over dose on your Viagra or are you just stupid?
he's just stupid
No,his estrogen level is a quart low and he is still bitter about the election outcome.Tough!
BldrRepublican:Go back to Fox News and detour straight to hell.
I think GW Bush is still looking for those WMD's. Yep, he sure was all over it. Stupid is as stupid does.
Look, Richard Nichols, the article CLEARLY states the drone was in INTERNATIONAL airspace. The drone was NOT in Iranian airspace.
That means Iran firing on it was an act of aggression. What part of that do you not understand?
cry cry cry,.............make a mother sigh..........four more years.............had to live under Bush for most of my 20s so now I get to enjoy my 30s with and intelligent leader..........why don't you to target practice with the M16 you keep in the closet Tool!
Obama weak? You mean the guy who actually tracked down and killed Bin Laden, versus Bush who spent 8 years looking in the wrong country for him? Bush would be all over this? Laughable.
Obama didn't track down bin Laden. Obama was safely and securely in the White House, and watch the whole event unfold on a video transmission.
None of the intelligence agencies changed leadership when Obama took office. That means it was the same guy leading the intelligence (CIA, etc) for the Bush administration as well as the Obama administration.
That means Obama had nothing to do with it. Get real.
dude really,..........yeah, let's just go spend more money on war......do you realize that's what is costing this nation the most money............we need to strengthen our security keep an eye on our borders and let the rest of the world do what they want with themselves.........kill each other, let em...............kill ours respond...................tired of all this pro-war testosterone crap the Republicans juice up on. The world makes fun of us for trying to police them..................do you wanna be like Rome??????????? It fell remember. You know why?..........because they tried to rule everybody!
That's funny if Bush was so great then why does your party not even acknowledge that he existed?
Ya gotta laugh loudly, that two IRANIAN fighter pilots (ok, attack pilots) couldn't shoot down a slow, (and slow enough that a slingshot could bring it down), drone! I think nobody (especially Israel), needs to worry about Iran. LOL
Good for them. Hope they hit the next one, not our business patrolling their shores
Rob:If the drone was outside the recognized 12 mile nautical zone,it wasn't in Iranian airspace,itt happened to be in internantional airspace.Read the article again and try to absorb some of the material written.Are you capable of doing that?
We have no moral legitimacy to be involved in the Middle East at all, let alone telling other nations what to do within their own borders. America isn't the world police. Good on Iran. Someone needs to stand up to American military imperialism.
The problem is what would the U.S. do if Iran flew a spy drone 12 miles off the coast of Virginia or New York City? Or the Naval Academy? or our Hawaii Ship Docks?
You believe the article? I am sure that drone was just taking beautiful pictures of the landscape.
No more wars for Israel!
Israel was against the Iraq war. They had Saddam as #7 on the threat board. They had zero to do with Afghanistan.
Perhaps you should learn before you mindlessly repeat propaganda. (and hatred). Perhaps until then you could call yourself Paleo Lithic.
We will always be there for Israel, it is at the foremost of our policy – and should always be. Both sides agree, and should.
"Israel is a true friend," President Obama said -. "It is our greatest ally in the region. And if Israel is attacked, America will stand with Israel."
One of his few statements I agree with.
Obama: On the behalf of the United States, we are sorry you shot our drone.
Obama will apologize to Iranians that got suckered into a SKETCHY deal from one of Mormon Bishop Mitten's Chinese companies! LMAO
On behalf of the U.S. sorry Osama that we shot you in the head. It wasn't our fault, our President made us do it.
Didn't any of your RIGHT-WING brothers tell you ... Bush lied about Bin Laden too! LMAO
. . .their action was spontaneous and we have nothing to do with this video ( ! )
You should be arrested for daring to say that he would apologize for that.
Thank you for your support for the 1st Amendment
Right before he sends the SEALs in. Seriously, how could anybody with half a brain think that Obama's a wuss after the troop surge in Afghanistan, the US involvement in the Libyan Revolution, the Bin Ladin raid, those numerous drone strikes around the Middle East, and our steady increase in military spending?
Sounds like a false flag operation to me. Anything to justify an attack on Iran.
I agree
It in no way resembles a false flag op. It perfectly fits a cold-war-era pattern of aggressive probing of air assets to indicate a willingness to fight as a way to exert diplomatic pressure and to discourage increasing of surveIllance, exactly something a nation trying to gloss over the fact that their "nuclear energy" program is building bombs is going to do.
It's really very simple. Iran is building nukes. We (the West) are trying to discourage this or stop it outright. We want pictures of facilities and are watching their shipping to see any movement of weapons. They are harassing and trying to up the ante of our doing so.
This is all a pattern of rising tensions as a result of the Iranians being hell bent on the destruction of Israel and us being unwilling to do more to stop them early. And it's going to end in a terrible and much bigger war than this generation has ever seen if the president doesn't do better than this, and if the press doesn't stop covering for him.
So you think Iran wants a nuclear weapon just to destroy Israel? I don't believe it. I believe they want a nuclear weapon because they are afraid they will become the next Iraq who didn't have any WMD's. Look at Pakistan. They were protecting Bin Laden and why didn't we go fight them? Because once you have nuclear weapons no one will mess with you.
You do realize that all 16 (what sort of whack-job country needs 16) US "intelligence Agencies" have concluded that Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program?
Who's telling you otherwise?
Oh, right Nutjob Netanyahu.
CNN need look no further than this sort of drivel to explain why it's dying.
We had a drone over Benghazi, witness to the whole debacle and nothing was done, no support sent. Now we have the drone fired on with cameras rolling and, again, nothing was done. No fighters scrambled, no other drones brought to bear their arms and no missiles fired. So what we are telling the world is that American military hardware is just one big target that won't fire back.
Remember when no one would pick on America?
No. I don't remember this mythical time that you speak of. When was it?
The U.S. has fought a number of wars since the Korean war. What have we really accomplished – other than showing the world that we can be fought against, and successfully? Is it any wonder we get little respect?
We would probably shoot a drone down if it was in our country...so why is it so wrong for them to shoot at ours in THEIR COUNTRY. the golden rule applies to gov'ts too people. pathetic double standards. this should be embarassing. instead people think we should bomb them??!! That drone being there is invading iran. im sick of the militeristic culture of this country. were all humans and we are no better than they are for any reason. they dont hate us because we are "free". they hate us because we constantly try to controll them through our corrupt money hungry politicians. people get so fooled by these stories that make us out to be the victim.
It wasn't in their country. If you believe the government, it was over international waters. Did you actually read the story?
Read the article, it wasn't in their air space.
The drone was not in Iranian airspace, learn to read.
"The drone was on routine maritime surveillance in international airspace east of Kuwait, 16 miles off the coast of Iran, U.S. officials said."
Read the article before you post.
The drone was in international territory monitoring shipping. Not over Iran.
The drone was in international waters dummy, read the article at least.
And those who suggest the US had no business having drones outside this line are just being idiots. This is one of the most vital waterways on the planet, an international hotspot, and so rightly many nations are patrolling this area by sea and air alike.
@Matt: Please read the article, it says the drone was never in their airspace so we were invading nothing. Kindly take the time and read the article before you scribble your anti-American rhetoric.
Did you read the article?
"Our aircraft was never in Iranian airspace. It was always flying in international air space."
It was in International airspace you pathetic liberal. Asuming so since you obvisouly can not read
Did you not read the article? Atleast skim through it before you open your mouth. They were in international waters.
I am so tired of this agenda to start a war with Iran, or any other innocent country for that matter. Yawn. Nobody wants it except for the uneducated and an elite few. Too bad for the "agenda pushers", there is currently an awakening population that can now feel when you are lying, which is pretty much always. CNN's time as a credible news platform is numbered. Enjoy! You've been exposed.
ok excuse my mistake. 16 miles. if a drone was 16 miles off the shore of the U.S. we would shoot it down. also, using insult to argue is a sign of weakness. try using logical reasoning if you wanted to be taken seriously. i respect others opionions but insulting is ignorant and uneducated. i am not a pathetic liberal. i just believe that we have no business being half way across the world when the real problems are here. and if we were not there in the first place, they wouldnt be a threat. and even if they were, if this gov't spent half the money it does on wars on TRUE DEFENSE budgets, we wouldnt have to worry about being attacked anyways. and please, if you disagree, try to argue logically instead of insults or like i said, it just makes you look weak....and if you disagee with that...insult away lol
Please in your comments do not refer to the "Iranians". Please refer to the "Iran's government and the advocates". Iranians have no problem with Americans. We hate from our government. Our government knows themeself very Holy and knows infidel their opponents. excuse me if my english is too bad
It's ok man, please excuse my morronic american brothers, they don't know any better
Thanks for clarifying. It's good to know that people and their govt aren't always in the same boat. Just like here in The USA
We know that you are good people and you need help agains this government, we respect you, we have here more people from Iran, we wish our government could help, and we pray more for you.
^^^^ thats the problem right there. no, they dont need help from our government. its not our business. our country, our people, and our gov't is our business. and thats why our drone got shot at. because the countries in the middle east are sick and tired of being bullied, and controlled by this militerstic country and culture. we think we have a right over everyone in the world. we think were better. embarassing.
It said something about Iran being aggressive. I would ask first, who's flying in whose airspace?
Iran sure knows how to look like a third world air force. If our US "unmanned drones" carried a fly swatter, Iran would be fishing their simian pilots out of the water. The mother of all embarrassments.
You sound ridiculous.That was a really stupid thing to say.
Lets get ready to fight America, lets rally the troops, get ready to spend trillions of dollars, get a couple thousand good old American men and women killed, lets get the war machine going to prove we are macho, the boss, the big cheese, lets make some more fatherless children, motherless too, lets get it going, and why because the newest bogy man IRAN , fired on an UNMANNED DRONE,16 MILES OFF THE COAST. So get your sons and daughter ready....
this is not the New Bogy man this is an old Bogey man....who threatens Isreal with nuclear destruction, denies the holocaust and kills our soldiers....pull your head out....the Iranian govt sucks and needs an ass kicking
Anyone who doesn't understand the peril represented by an aggressive Iran is willfully ignorant. It has a 33 year history of acts of war against Israel and America. But its desire for nuclear weapons adds a dimension that will ignite the Gulf and quickly destroy the economies of the world. To simply reduce this situation to a bellicose America desiring a war is very foolish.
Regardless if Romney or Obama was in office, we will be at war with IRAN within the next year. They have been preparing this for a long time. Am I wrong?
I meant no.
Iran simply wants to see how the U.S. reacts.
Well, that didn't take long.
U.S ARMY service member here. I honestly think it was warning shots. stupid ones yes, but none the less warning shots.
I hope Iran does something stupid so we can go over there and take out the trash.........
Such an idiot you are!
No no no...it's not a rash arash, powerful antibiotics are what you need right now. Don't scratch, it spreads.
"The incident, reported first by CNN, raised fresh concerns within the Obama administration about Iranian military aggression in crucial Gulf oil shipping lanes."
Oh the irony. You Americans are really unbelievable.
Quibble all you want over the irony... We'll still bury Tehran in atomic ash...
Wait until you see us fight!
We should shoot down on of their aircraft to let them know what we can do.
You already did. Flight 655 shot down by US military, killing 300 civilians among which 60 children.
We already know what you fü kkers can do.
Iran Air Flight 655 was a civilian jet airliner shot down by U.S. missiles on 3 July 1988 as it flew over the Strait of Hormuz at the end of the Iran–Iraq War. The aircraft, an Airbus A300B2-203 operated by Iran Air, was flying from Bandar Abbas, Iran to Dubai, United Arab Emirates. While flying in Iranian airspace over Iran's territorial waters in the Persian Gulf on its usual flight path, it was destroyed by the United States Navy guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes (CG-49). All 290 onboard including 66 children and 16 crew perished.
It's Israeli zionists stirring the pot again. "Do our bidding, America! Now!" CNN just had an interview with an Israeli diplomat...why? Why not speak with a U.S. and an Iranian diplomat? That's just one way you can tell it's Israel behind the scenes. If you don't understand or believe, just read true history, not what is handed to you in school or by the press, what really happened during the Bolshevik Revolution( 30,000,000 Christians killed by Jews/Zionists), the number of times the Federal Reserve tried to take over the banking in this country since 1776, why the countries that are so-called "bad"(Venezuela, N.Korea, etc) will not accept being part of the World Bank/Federal Reserve/IMF....
BTW, I am not against True Israelites, Palestinians, Arabs or anyone in that region...just zionists in Israel and America!
No war is needed. Rednecks and others, take your hatred and do something positive, go protect our border...or help a family in need nearby or on the East Coast.
Why do I get the imprEssion that you are writing from within Iran, "Tom?"
First on CNN? Really? This story has been all over the place since this morning. While CNN was covering fluff pieces about the election this morning, this story appeared on The Drudge Report, Fox News, The AP, and a handful of overseas outlets. This story broke on my Facebook feed before CNN even knew that there were drones flying over the gulf. CNN – your source for yesterday's news. Way to drop the ball and then be dishonest about it.
Sounds like the same morons that re-elected our wondrous CIC would just welcome Iran coming I. To tell us how to be a good country. Are you all huffing or sniffing glue regularly?
Jim:The true morons are the ones who wanted to put the other guy in the White House.If that was your decision also,I guess you fit right into that category!
pro freedom go live in Iran. when its time to take care of buisness maybe we will see you there
How dare CNN claims this piece of news is "First on CNN"? Could it be this is the first time that CNN finally acknowledging it after withholding the "news" since Nov 1 in order to help some VIP to win in the election process?
their jets fired on our drone and missed; and we consider this an act of war? Assassinating people with drones is an act of war. Since we sell weapons to every country on this planet; maybe the Iranians want to upgrade their jets?
No country should have the right to fire at our drones. But I believe we have the right to fire on, destroy, any drones we have the desire to shoot down.
Let's NOT go to war with Iran.
Alright, our drone escaped and avoid capture this time!
There are 2 stories here...
1) Iran and the US are getting closer and closer to a serious conflict, with Iran very possibly haing the means to nuke Israel sometime during this presidential term... How Obama responds is incredibly important to the lives of millions, and...
2) This is major news, which was in the hands of the white house and a sympathetic press, which also somehow failed to reach the public until after a critical election. Meaning the millions of people who may live or die based on this presidents actions have factored in as less important to certain people than winning an election.
I don't care what side of the aisle you are on or what country, what your politics are, or where you are from. We are talking about events which can lead up to nuclear exchanges here. We need to know if this president is on the job, and we need the press to challenge him constantly, not to cover up information and act like a propaganda arm, because if they do this is going to turn into a historical bloodbath and a lot of Israelis and Iranians are going to be replaced with hunks of of green glass.
I would agree with you except this is ALL MADE UP! So sad how low the MEDIA will go these days to sway the people of this country and make everyone look like FOOLS and war mongers in the process.
This is just utter stupidity and SO PATHETIC...IRAN IS NOW more advanced in FREE ENERGY and they are using it PEACEFULLY and I say that as a FULL blooded AMERICAN!
Really, "Julie?" You're a full blooded American huh? And the "FREE ENERGY" buzzword you are using, which is a construct used by Iranians to imply that their nuclear ambitions are people-friendly efforts to lower electric bills, is just a phrasing you happened upon?
Improper reporting by CNN.
It's ridiculous to think the US doesn't try to get intelligence information by going over Iranian airspace. Have we forgotten that the Iranians have one of our Predator drones in their hands. I would hope that the US is trying to get this very important data by using unmanned drones. But if one gets shot down, it's clearly not an act of war... it's the low cost of doing drone reconnaissance.
Don't count on CNN to give you accurate reporting
Actually there were no issues with the US instruments it's just that the IRANIAN technology if far,far advanced...
you might appreciate an article on Dr. Keshe's site – KESHE FOUNDATION – IRAN used the tech of FREE ENERGY and uses it for both medical and space advancement today, out of Belgium – free to all governments and people 🙂
Consequences of having an impotent, incompetent, apologetic president.
Anyone advocating for war or calling the President a coward, YOU can finance the Iranian war on your own over warning shots. We can't AFFORD to get into another Middle Eastern war. You can't advocate for war and simultaneously advocate for deficit reduction. SOME of you radical Republicans can be so contradictory sometimes.
Kevin, you must be talking about Reagan in 1983 in Beirut when our military barracks was bombed that killed 300 Americans! Because of Reagan impotent, incompetent, apologetic, presidency, the Islamic Jihad's did not see three color (Red, White, & Blue) that day, they only saw one color, and that color was YELLOW! Thanks Ronnie
So why are we not taking Military action against IRAN for this. They fired on U.S. Aircraft regardless if it was occupied or not they should be punished by more than diplomatic actions.They are clearly pushing for WAR so at least let them see what some of our missiles can do to persuade them not to fire at us again !
umm because we dont need any wars to further our debt. maybe you should go fight iran for it however theres probably many soldiers who would rather not have to have another war torn country to leave thier families for. dont be so militersitc.
So you are saying that we (the US) declared war on Iran when we flew a drone over their country some months back?
And can you tell me what the hell an American Drone is doing on the other side of the world near Iranian boarders???
Well CNN, this is not convincing the American people we should go to war! So I will bet your MOSSAD agents in our CIA will blow something up in Chicago and blame it on Iran! Someone please take my bet!
so ... if the Iranian flew a high range spying drone 12 nautical miles off the US Cost, u really think that drone wouldn't be shot down? ... really .. act of war? Common, they even didn't get it .. chill out dudes .. they can do all the firing the want ...
yeah...smoke some colorado dubage and contemplate Hendirx man!
Bin laden died years ago of natural causes, look it up, and if you believe this drone was over "international waters" you'll believe the bay of tomkin incident.
We will get off fossil fuels just as soon as it is entirely gone – and we are about half way there. Until then there is a lot of democracy to spread around.
Who are kidding? Why do you send unmanned Drone in Persian Golf? You send it because you do not want to get detected? Otherwise, an aircraft could do samething in International water? You checking Iranian radar system as well as how they may reponse. Israel and US have threathen Iran continously. what do you expect to be their response?! How do they know it is NOT an attack? So lets stop playing game?
Pentagon was protesting to the Iranians...lol
I don't think we'd tolerate a foreign country flying a drone 16 miles off the U.S. coast.
So, what happened is those fiends tried to murder one of our killer robots?
The drone in 2011 was not shot down, it was hacked and hijacked by Iran. Months earlier the US military said they knew about deficiencies in their GPS network that they use to control the drones with and hacking was a major concern. They did not plug the holes and there we go.
Shame on you CNN for trying to rewrite actual events that happens, and you call yourself reporters?
Iranians will pretty soon start firing on their shadows
Wow, really? A joking matter. The lack of knowledge with the mindset of video gamers is disturbing throughout the comment board. We are screwed.
They chased it and did aerial loops around it. Sounds like what they've done is practiced chasing and downing a drone, without the provocation of actually downing one. If they thought there's a real possibility they may be at war with the U.S. then this is a useful skill for them to attain.
I am sure that drone was just taking pictures of the beautiful landscape 😉 wink wink. Iran is scared that they will become the next Iraq. They have every right to defend themselves. Imagine if they sent a drone here to spy on US.
I am more worried about Pakistan. I doubt that the country that was protecting Bin Laden are really our friends. So why does the US not question Pakistan? That's right because they have nuclear weapons.
really because we didn't sneak in there or anything right under their noses , right next to a military installation and take out OBL....Furthermore these drones were innternational airspace...
Pakistan is also the only air route for supply into Afganistan. So as long as we need to operate facilities and maintain troops/personnel/embassy presence, we need to be friends with Pakistan, since the only other air route is through Iran (who by the way just fired on an unmanned drone flying in international airspace...)
Why is this so shocking? America would shoot down anothers countries drones if they were flying over here.
Hey Doug,
I'm a little confused by your comment since you imply that if another country was flying in American airspace that they'd be shot down. This was in international airspace according to the article which is a blatant sign of unwarranted aggression. Granted, this may be all a bunch of propaganda and we really WERE over Iranian soil but the article doesn't state that.
why would we be flying a drone over international waters? drones are for surveilance and attacking. if an American f16 seen a iraqi drone fly by it, you think it would not shoot it down.
The drones were not flying in Iran's airspace. Please read the article before you comment.
Yes, that is what you get to do when you are the big dog.
obama be apologizing anytime. what a clown
OMG, you can't spell. And he didn't, what ever you said, the conservitive candidate did...go back to highschool. People like this that are posting on non-relivant topics need to go back to work/school
Don't worry ... one of the remain Republican clowns will throw a press conference pretty soon pretending to act like they know what is going on.
Joe, go back to fox news
How about we just end the US military empire, moron?
Need to arm drones with air to air missiles and when they fire on it we fire back.
Alwright!! Election 2 days over and its time to start the war drums. You people out there see whats happening dont ya? You saw it with Iraq, Libya, Syria, and now its Iran time. Better hurry up Obama, its bombin time, the oligarchy is calling, its payback time.
Why would they worry? They got their guy in our presidency! Shoot at whatever they want. If I was still military, I would be looking for any way out knowing our CIC gives not a D about our troops. Congrats libs. You voted to make us a third world country and non power. Watch our country unravel as you run out of my money to give to those of you that "just down have the energy" to go to work and make your own way.
I wonder if anyone has considered that the shots might of been warning shots. Perhaps they were showing they knew the drone was there and the shots were warning shots with them chasing it to make sure it got the message or something...then again that part of been the pilots just having a little fun with it I suppose. Regardless I'm sure if they actually intended to shoot it down it would of been shot down.
You give the Iranian air force too much credit. They would maintain air superiority over Iran for about a day if we went to war with them.
Yeah, sure, right. That's it. Your ilk is what has set our country on its way to be as powerful as Bermuda in the world.
Sssshhh, you shouldn't post such intelligent remarks here. This forum is for Iran bashing only. How ridiculous to even asume that Iranians are capable of shooting down an unmanned aerial vehicle! ( sarcasm)
An act of war? Really? Firing at a drone? We send drone into Pakistan and fire on their citizens. This is more of an act of war than shooting at an unmanned drone.
Come on CNN, use some judgment. Stop warmongering. Stop trying to put you big sloppy foot print on the news. Just report it.
Thank you, Good Grief. I couldn't agree more!
Would it not have been funny if the unmanned drone were armed and got in a dogfight with the two Iranian jets and ket there rear ends. That would have been so funny.
I'm rooting for Iran to win now.
We're all OK with you moving there.
Same here, and I'm a true blue American! The first person that shoots down a domestic drone is going to go down in history as a patriotic hero.
Then you better hope they were trying to miss. If Iranian fighter pilots can't even hit a UAV their airforce is even more laughable than we thought. At least they had the good sense not to waste a missile on it.
As for the claim that it was in international waters, the US frankly has no credibility on that, at this point I'd give at least 50-50 odds that it was in Iranian airspace. It's America's word against Iran and neither one is remotely trustworthy.
Interesting that this comes out 8 days later and AFTER the election.
..And some Russian Diplomat spit in the street in DC last week.................................NUKE MOSCOW.........................right Ttards...?
Isn't that exactly why we use drones...we expect them to be fired on?
another social issue drone on drone
Hilarious that people are hating on Obama for not starting a world war over a drone being shot at. Calling him spineless. What was your response when he got Bin Laden?
Bin laden died years ago of natural causes, and if you believe a drone was over "international waters" I'll bet you'd buy the bay of tomkin incident as well...sheeple.
No way ... so Bush lied about Bin Laden too?! LMAO
with sissy president on hand, even maldives will stand against USA. What can i do, majority of americans needs sissy president?
I don't know whose worst?
Mitt the guy who will press the red button not knowing what it will do ..or Obama who doesn't want to press the red button because he knows what it will do.
Are you really serious? An "act of war"? Leave it to the media. It was a DRONE. Was it enough to make us mad? Yes. An act of war? Come on. The media is stirring up controversy and there's gonna be some dumb redneck who's gonna go "Yeah! Let's go to war!" because of your lack of professionalism.
It IS an act of war; and one the Administration kept quite about until after the election. How convenient.
If you are interested in the REAL story on Iran taking down the drone etc, check out Dr. Keshe foundation 🙂
Iran is ahead in FREE ENERGY and Dr. Keshe has been doing his best to offer it to all governments and all people!
It's not even that – all I see is the "Gulf of Tonkin" all over again. Any excuse to start WWIII.
Of course it was an act of war. The Iranians fired on an American military aircraft. How is that *not* an act of war?
Whether we respond to it by *declaring* war is another issue entirely.
We need only to sit down with the Iranian mullahs without preconditions so they can be swayed by the irresistible personality of Obama the Sun King! Then they will come to love us, and all of our problems will disappear! Yes we can!
This is a load of absolute nonsense and lies! CNN what on earth! and what fools do you take the American people to be?!
If in doubt about the US drone taken down, peacefully...and with MORE technological know how than even the US, check out IRAN's Nuclear Advances! The US is threatened and 'OUR' oil source is in IRAN, go figure...so what does the US do?
No idiot believes this article, unless they haven't done their research...sad, sad MIS-information from so called REPORTERS!
Iran, don't poke the bear!


text:
Denver County Rental Housing Statistics
The American Community Survey (ACS), conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau, publishes detailed estimates about rental housing in Denver County each year. Gross rent includes both the contract rent and any additional utility and fuel costs.
Unlike the Census—which is an exact count of people and households every ten years—ACS statistics are estimated based on a representative survey sample. (The data in this story only considers occupied rental housing with rent payments in Denver County.) This report uses ACS 5-year estimates for Denver County rental housing data, rather than single-year periods.The 5-year estimates provide greater geographical granularity but a less granular time period.
How does Denver County median rent compare to Colorado and the United States?
How does median rent vary within Denver County, Colorado?
Note: Hover over each census tract in Denver County to see its median gross rent.
How does median rent of Denver County vary by unit size?
How much occupied rental housing in Denver County is unaffordable?
This chart shows counts of rental housing units in Denver County, Colorado, broken down by their rent affordability—that is, the gross rent as a percentage of household income. According to longstanding convention (pdf), households that spend 30 percent or more of their income on housing are considered "burdened" by housing costs that they may not be able to afford. While the 30-percent rule of thumb is not a perfect measure of unaffordable housing, it can be a useful indicator for identifying vulnerable households.
How much do Denver County residents spend on rent in aggregate?
The ACS releases estimated rent cost aggregations based on its survey data. These aggregations are further broken down by the size and composition of the rental structure—for example, stand-alone rental homes, multi-unit apartment complexes, and mobile homes.
About the Data
Data is from the U.S. Census Bureau's American Community Survey (ACS), 5-year estimates. The following tables are used:
• Median Gross Rent trend and map: Table B25064
• Number of Bedrooms: Table B25031
• Rent Affordability: Table B25070
• Aggregate Gross Rent: Table B25065
• Units in Structure: Table B25066
This report uses the Census Bureau Data API but is not endorsed or certified by the Census Bureau.


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I recently had a private wine tasting with Costas Mouzouras, the Wine Director at Gotham Wines & Liquors (2517 Broadway; New York, NY 10025; Telephone: 212.932.0990). Costas, who's been in the business for 22 years, selected four outstanding wines for me to try. To keep everything strictly kosher, I opened and poured the bottles for both of us.
The choices were: 2007 Lambouri Ya'in Kafrisin, 2006 Shiloh Secret Reserve Cabernet Sauvignon, 2007 Dalton Reserve Wild Yeast Fermentation Viognier and a 2007 Yatir Sauvignon Blanc.
We started with the 2007 Lambouri Ya'in Kafrisin. This wine comes from Limassol, Cyprus. It's made from a mixture of Cabernet Sauvignon, Mavro and Grenache Noir grapes. These grapes are grown in Europe's highest vineyards. The color is a dark garnet with orange and purple reflections. The Mavro grape is indigenous to Cyprus, and unlike any grape grown in the rest of Europe, it is still grown on ancient rootstock. Most mainland Europe's vineyards have been attacked by the Philoxera Epidemic during the 19th century, as a result most European vineyards were devastated and their grapes had to be grafted on American rootstock. You can, therefore, surmise that while most European grapes may have, however subtly, changed their taste, the Mavro grape remains untainted and has tasted the same (with fair consistency) for thousands of years. One will detect a nice fruitiness, with emphasis on blackcurrant, blackberry, purple plum fruits and notes of bitter orange peel, those on a background of white pepper and oriental spices, with the tannins and fruits rising on the finish. It leaves the drinker with an unusual but delightful after taste. Goes superbly well with juicy meats. Definitely one of my new favorites!
We followed it with the 2006 Shiloh Secret Reserve Cabernet Sauvignon. This is a very good Israeli wine, grown in the Judean Hills. Aged aged in French oak casks, it is very fruity with blackcurrant and plum undercurrents and vanilla (due to the French oak casks). It goes well with drier meats.
We then went on to the whites. 2007 Dalton Reserve Wild Yeast Fermentation Viognier was our next selection. It started with a certain smokiness, showing intense, vibrant and complex spicy, floral, fig and melon aromas and flavors. Deep and rich with a long, broad finish. This wine was, by far, much better than its price range would suggest!
We ended the tasting with a 2007 Yatir Sauvignon Blanc. Crisp and lively, with elegance and subtlety. It is light golden in color with orange and green reflections, showing citrus, passion fruit, green apple and grapefruit aromas and flavors on a grassy and stony-mineral background.
All in all, these four selection running in price range from $15.99 to $37.99 were excellent! Costas Mouzouras started working at Gotham Wines & Liquors in 1988, where he soon became the kosher wine buyer, at a time when most of the few available kosher wines were of the extra sweet variety. In his 22 years at Gotham he has seen an explosion of kosher wines with award winning selections from all over the globe including many dry wines (which would have been unthinkable to our older generation), as well as semi dry, semi sweet, and sweet ones.
Currently, they are offering 10% off on any bottles and 15% off on solid cases. (solid meaning a case of the same product.)
On Sunday, March 7th, Gotham Wines & Liquors will present its 7th annual Wine Tasting. It will take place in the afternoon at the Lincoln Square Synagogue (200 Amsterdam Avenue, New York, NY; between 69th and 70th). They will present over 300 bottles from all over the world, starting at 2:00pm and going until 5:00pm. Pay $30 per person at the entrance or $25 on line at Gotham Wines & Liquors' own site. At 1:15 going on until 2:00 there will be a guided VIP tasting for $45 which is only available at the door.


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In her recent book, Law, Politics, and Perception: How Policy Preferences Influence Legal Reasoning (2009), Eileen Braman examines how policy preferences and legal authority interact to influence judicial decision making. Here's the book's abstract.
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Are judges' decisions more likely to be based on personal inclinations or legal authority? The answer, Eileen Braman argues, is both. Law, Politics, and Perception brings cognitive psychology to bear on the question of the relative importance of norms of legal reasoning versus decision markers' policy preferences in legal decision-making. While Braman acknowledges that decision makers' attitudes—or, more precisely, their preference for policy outcomes—can play a significant role in judicial decisions, she also believes that decision-makers' belief that they must abide by accepted rules of legal analysis significantly limits the role of preferences in their judgments. To reconcile these competing factors, Braman posits that judges engage in "motivated reasoning," a biased process in which decision-makers are unconsciously predisposed to find legal authority that is consistent with their own preferences more convincing than those that go against them. But Braman also provides evidence that the scope of motivated reasoning is limited. Objective case facts and accepted norms of legal reasoning can often inhibit decision makers' ability to reach conclusions consistent with their preferences.
* * *
To read a sample of related Situationist posts, see "The Situation of Judicial Activism," "The Situation of Biased Perceptions," "The Bias of the Bar?," "Judicial Ideology – Abstract," "The Situation of Judicial Methods – Abstract," "The Situation of Constitutional Beliefs – Abstract," "The Political Situation of Judicial Activism," "Ideology is Back!," "The Situation of Judges (1)," "The Situation of Judges (2)," "Blinking on the Bench," "The Situation of Judging – Part I," "The Situation of Judging – Part II," and "Justice Thomas and the Conservative Hypocrisy."