text:
By Barbara Starr
Two Iranian Su-25 fighter jets fired on an unarmed U.S. Air Force Predator drone in the Persian Gulf on November 1, the Pentagon disclosed on Thursday.
The incident, reported first by CNN, raised fresh concerns within the Obama administration about Iranian military aggression in crucial Gulf oil shipping lanes.
The drone was on routine maritime surveillance in international airspace east of Kuwait, 16 miles off the coast of Iran, U.S. officials said. The Predator was not hit.
Also: U.S. adds to Iran sanctions
"Our aircraft was never in Iranian airspace. It was always flying in international air space. The recognized limit is 12 nautical miles off the coast and we never entered the 12 nautical mile limit," Pentagon Press Secretary George Little said in responding to questions from reporters after CNN reported the incident.
Little said the United States believed this was the first time an unmanned aircraft was shot at by the Iranians in international waters over the Gulf. In December of 2011, a U.S. surveillance drone crashed in eastern Iran. Iranians claimed to have shot it down, and created a toy model of the drone to celebrate its capture.
Little stopped short of calling the incident an act of war although the Pentagon was concerned.
Also: Obama faces world of challenges in second terms
Two U.S. officials explained the jets were part of Iran's Revolutionary Guard Corps force, which has been more confrontational than regular Iranian military forces.
At least two bursts of gunfire came from the Su-25s' cannons. The drone started to move away but the Iranian aircraft chased it, doing aerial loops around it before breaking away and returning to Iran.
The Obama administration did not disclose the incident before the presidential election, but three senior officials confirmed the details to CNN on Thursday. They declined to be identified because of sensitive intelligence matters surrounding the matter.
The drone's still and video cameras captured the incident showing two Su-25s approaching the Predator and firing onboard guns.
The Iranian pilots continued to fire shots that went beneath the Predator but were never successful in hitting it, according to the officials.
U.S. military intelligence analysts are still not sure if the Iranian pilots simply were unable to hit the drone due to lack of combat skill, or whether they deliberately were missing and had no intention of bringing it down.
But as one of the officials said, "it doesn't matter, they fired on us."
Little said the United States has to assume Iran was trying to bring down the Predator.
The United States protested the incident but had not heard back from Iran.
Iran has, at other times, been confrontational in the region. In January, the U.S. military and coast guard had close encounters with Iranian Navy vessels which approached at high speeds and exhibited provocative behavior.
Michael Oren, Israel's ambassador to the United States, declined to say whether his country knew about the incident before Pentagon officials
USA did shoot down civilian iranian airline in 1988 with 290 people aboard, No official apology never came forward.
Iran violently overthrew our embassy and held US citizens hostage for a VERY long time. No apology for that either. You don't "play nice" with the enemy, and Iran has been an enemy for decades.
We should nuke Iran back to the Stone Age...which is where their leaders' ideology is based in.
And yet another example of the White House HIDING information from Americans So much for that "transparency" the Liar-In-Chief promised and fails to do!
Remember the last time the White House immediately came out to address a situation without first fully evaluating it? Yeah you complained then to.
"But CNN does not question the political motivations of the Obama admin's constant lies and corruption.
CNN...complicit in the Obama propaganda machine."
It's too bad that so many people in the country are so brain dead. I mean, you are reading about this on CNN. And, I might add, it was a military operation. Corruption? These kinds of things are not made public, until the decision is made to make them public. I mean, do you remember Abu Ghraib? Here is an instance where crimes and corruption were intentionally hidden from the people in an illegitimate manner by the president. What did you have to say about that?
Nothing? Meanwhile, some simple facts that don't point to any kind of corruption whatsoever cause you to go up an arms and act like an ape. Saying brainless, untrue things that just do not make any sense at all. Tuesday was a wake up call for people like you. The president won big. The majority of american's are tired of bumling re tar ds like you. We welcome you to LEAVE this country. I will BUY you the bus ticket to mexico. Dumb people like you, and jay, and whoever else ou there wants to automatically complain based on their stupid party loyalties instead of using the brain. Goodbye.
We just got all the intel on Iran's air force that we need. They shot at an unmanned drone and missed.
russians sold them faulty shiiiit man
You've won the election be happy and start building a strong country not like this.
Please stop provoking these Persians not a good sign and no one wants war now. Enough of attacking If you want to do a surveillance do it from the satellite why send a armed drone over other countries border.
What is that US is trying to prove here. You pinch other countries like this and go for war and you give a wonderful stupid reason for all.
A voice of sanity. Sadly, the Empire has to be fed, and they are sitting on a wealth of oil and gas. The US will invade, and the foreign oil companies will move in.
It was an unarmed drone in international waters. Deal with it.
Did you even read the article? The drone wasn't armed, and it was flying over international waters, not within Iran's Border.
When you find a UAV do you first see whether it is armed and then attack. BTW do you've time for all these when an alien is in your domain what do you. You start firing to defend urself rather than debating armed or unarmed
Did you read the article?
We were within 4 miles of Iranian air space. Yes we were within the legal limits, but my gut instinct tells me that Iran has heard far too much horrific news regarding predator drones and was sending a very clear signal that the drones were a little close for comfort. I don't think they had any intention of taking it down, but that's not really the point.
We are at a very tenuous crossroads regarding our foreign relations. Iran, Syria, Russia and China have a very storng alliance. Do we really need to be pushing all the wrong hot buttons right now? I think not. But our gung ho military will look for reasons to send out those predator drones. I'm sure we don't make an announcement notifying others whether these drones are armed or unarmed. Think about that. I'm sure they expect the worst.
This whole middle east thing is too far gone for my comfort level. Ahmadinajad has a year left as leader of Iran. His actions could go one of two ways. Why are we not taking an energy advancement approach with Iran and their nuclear advancement? If, and it's a possible if, Iran is merely advancing nuclear energy endeavors, wouldn't it benefit his legacy to use our energy intelligence to advance and develop middle east societies and bring electricity and power grids to neighboring nations. Sure he's not our friend, but that doesn't mean he doesn't want to end his reign as a man of power and honor to the people. And if were smart, we would see where we could collaborate with Iran on advancing their grid. For my hope is to one day see international utility bonds trading and for energy to be used as forces of great power for the good and advancement of all Nations. But that takes a strong and intelligent leader doesn't it? Instead drones are the new advancements being used as the force of power. What a shame, for global energy endeavors could be all it takes to bring some peace and hope to all nations. I would much rather end my political career as an ally of advancement and go down as a man who brought energy and investment to my nation, rather than isolation and sanctions. And we as a leader in energy knowledge and expertise, should be there seeing if there is a way to use Iran's nuclear capabilties for the greater good with their participation and willing involvement
no, lets just let them build a nuke...our new philosophy is be nice and diplomacy is the way to go....you people are clueless...
clueless? No. No diplomacy. no war. just leave it alone and focus on OUR country. We have no business being near there at all. period. i they want nukes, then theyl have nukes. we have them. they probably feel threatened by us. if we didnt have nukes, and china did. how would you feel if china invaded us or bombed us for attempting to make them. golden rule. and if we spent half the money that is spent on missions like this one on actual ture defense spending. we wouldnt have to worry about being attacked.
how muck chicken grease are on the white house curtains from the bammas using them to wipe their hands?
too bad there is no way to report you for abuse here. You are an idiot.
Wow, racist jokes? You are real mature... Stop being stuck in the past, although I sure don't want you in our future, hell not even in the present, guess you know the other option.
lol.....you took the bait and replied.....rotflmao!!!!
Please stop provoking these Persians not a good sign and no one wants war now. Enough of attacking If you want to do a surveillance do it from the satellite why send a armed drone over other countries border.
What is that US is trying to prove here. You pinch other countries like this and go for war and you give a wonderful stupid reason for all.
Wow you need to re read.
Kept buried until the election to ensure that Obama not doing SQUAT about it it was not tied to his turning his back on the men mudered and sodomized in Benghazi. The press in the US is CORRUPT.
Yes the press is corrupt thats hot obombo got re elected.
What would you suggest the US does cocostump start another war ... Havent you learned by now ... Why dnt you suit up and jump on the front line with your rifle tough guy if you want to use force against Iran ... And for all you folks that keep blaming Obama for everything slap yourselves for being stupid ... There are quite a few high ranking military personnel that make decisions other than Obama so stop using him as a scapegoat for every damn thing.
Isn't Obama the "Commander In Chief"? Just curious. i though he was. Hmmmmm
He is commander and chief on "The View" telling all those women what a bad ass he is.
Obama is commander in chief, that's where the buck stops.
bama the muslim likes it
yave a muslim president ha ha
You are an idiot.
First on CNN? You're joking right? Fox had this on the front page HOURS before you guys
Well , if iranian drones were flying neart US border, be sure they wouldn't live long too.
Oh, I'm sure they will live long. I bet US will even try to capture one of them and see what makes it tick and how to beat it in the future. The intelligence community will have a field day. It'll be on the training manuals.
barry's a knee grow who eats pooch
Racism. Nice. What's wrong? You MAAAAD?! Hahaha! President Obama WON, ignorant hillbilly! GET OVER IT!!!!
lol...you took the bait and replied....rotflmao
Cindy Lou, your are one sick puppy.
The fact that CNN is referring to Iran as aggressive because of this shows that they are trying to manipulate opinion. Is anyone dumb enough to think that if Iran was flying drones in the Gulf of Mexico that the U.S. military wouldn't be shooting at them? Please. Armed U.S. drones are killing civiians in several countries that we know of and probably a few that we don't know of. Even the unarmed drones are spying for military purposes. If you don't want your drones shot down then keep them out of other countries back yards.
Scott, you took the words right out of my mouth. this is also as if one guy carries an unloaded gun wandering around someone else's house, and he gets shot, and files a law suit against the house owner for being aggressive.
apparently the Iranians are terrible shots... good to know.
I think they could have shot it down if they wanted to. It's like "a shot across the bow" warning to observers.
That is evidently true for American drones as well you heartless fool(i do not want to have this comment flagged.My vocabulary for cuss words is much better than that).You kill civlians around in Afghanistan and get away with a "Sorry.My bad". You and people like you are a serious case hypocricy syndrome.
Yikes –
Not sure why I read the comments after this article popped up. Love the speculations over Iran and the Middle East. First things first, you keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. Obama's foreign policies are his greatest assets so far, he's kept boots off of Syrian and Libyan soils, his drones are picking off the Talaban elite one by one, again without losing lives, he couldn't just "walk" out of Afghanistan after taking office, he had to do it delicately and forthright; we shouldn't have been there in the first place.
Iran would be a glowing red parking lot if they attempt any military action, and you can count on it, but we just can't repeat previous regimes actions (you did know we assassinated Iran's president in 1953 didn't you?). So the best way to handle the Middle East is exactly the way Obama is handling it; being nice and friendly, while we sneak behind their backs gathering all the info we need – instead of the Republican way of barking to the high heavens to make a "stand" and showing your hand (remember Bush giving Bin Laden a month head start to hide?).
AND ONE MORE THING: You just know that BLDR REPUBLICAN is some skinny, stoner 16 year old kid in his parents basement laughing his ass off at his pathetic posts mimicking his drunken father upstairs. So I wouldn't take "it" too seriously. I am sure he gets his just desserts when his 13 year old sister beats the crap out of him and steals his pot.
We arn't in the end.. Obama won't save you dude.. Democrats or Republicans won't save you...
Shows your lack of knowledge of the Middle East and their history with the US. You probably had no idea that we have been in a constant struggle with the Middle East literally since the first days of our nation. Staying quiet and away did not work then and it will not work now. Foreign Policy was NOT Obama's strong suit. It has been his 2nd most pathetic failure next to the economy. You cite Libya and Syria as examples? His sanctions against Iran have not done much to deter them from seemingly proceeding to enrich uranium. Oh and look, Iran fired at one of our planes that was in international waters and we don't find out until when? AFTER THE F'ING ELECTION?! As for Libya, you are of course referring to the initial conflict. You wouldn't be foolish enough to think he handled the Sept. 11th attack well. Declared it an act of terror? No. He most certainly did not, and if he had he deliberately contridicted himself on many occassions afterwards. And seriously F.U. for even suggesting that Obama has done ANYTHING well with regards to Syria. He has done next to NOTHING. As a part Syrian I am saddened and disgusted at his lack of effort towards the situation. Over 30,000 civilians murdered by the Syrian Regime and Obama has done what? Written a stern letter? China continues to F us in the butt when it comes to trade violations and illegal subsidies. Pakistan is becoming increasingly difficult to work with. Iraq continues to have IEDs, suicide bombers, and insurgent attacks. Their government is unstable because the enemy knows we're packing up and leaving on a certain day. Why would they come out in numbers when they know they can wait a little longer since Obama has promised we'll be out. Actually, if they're smart they would realize Obama's promises are not even 50/50. I'll end with Russia, who Obama has informed he will have more control after the election.
Foreign policy a strong suit? LOL, ya hokay!
your lack of knowledge on the middle east is not very goo either. at all. better your research.
Thank you. I read 100 posts and yours was the only well said and intellectual posting.
I salute you, a gentleman and a scholar.
We are a society of laws; by law our sphere of interest ends at the 12-mile limit; an imagined Iranian drone would fly to that point certainly observed, but not harmed.
so you mean Obama didn't tell us about an attack until AFTER the election. WEIRD!
thank you to the 3 million votes to pushed him back into office. idiots.
You're so very welcome. We'll do it again in four.
Stop spreading hate with the whole democrat vs republican
You will do what Polo screw this country up more than it already is? Because thats what is going to happen thanks to idiots like you.
Womp womp.
Should i thank you for the wars of the last decade? I just don't want to be ungrateful...
OK, not want to sound "unpatriotic", but, all other matters aside, how were the Iranian pilots supposed to know that the "Predator" was unarmed.
Armed Predators have missles hanging from them. If they were as close as the report lets on they could see for themselves.
Yeah , I guess since they were too stupid not to know that it was in international airspace and they couldn't hit it with a full nine yards , they wouldn't know .
They knew what it was .
Really? They know the American military is unpredictable. Even if they don't see any hellfires hanging off of the drone's wings, they don't know what it can do. They don't know if it is there to feed targeting information or if there is a conventional warhead mounted. What if it was a flying bomb disguised as a drone? They are playing by the rule: better to be safe than sorry.
They missed on purpose to give the drone a warning. They could have shot it down easily too. I'm just kinda surprised they didn't try to "grab" it.
A drone mission is to spy inside enemy territory! U.S. & Israel are testing Iran military radar capabilities. We have learned a lot since Iraq nuke intel??? C'mon, drone was NOT in international airspace!
glad you have the inside scoop on this....thanks for the intel man
Wake up & smell the coffee bricott! Propaganda war machine is on to justify strikes on Iran while Israel sits on stock piles of nukes! After all, Israel is the real threat in that region...
more important issues....like stopping knee grow barry from using the white house curtains to wipe the fried chicken grease off his fingers
Sour grapes, loser.
what will happen when you run out of our money?
I know your mom and dad taught you those racist values, but this isn't something you should pass on to your children. God Bless whoever you are and I hope you allow your kids to socialize with other races.
lol....you make me laugh
Name one succesful country run by brown people just one...... there isnt any and now you can add usa lol i think we start the next civil war here none of the liberal vegetarian puzzys will fight back.
Great post, good effort!
As you openly judge others you have invited them to judge you as well. So here goes...
I think you might find it even more important for you to read some books, gain some knowledge, outgrow your racism and the shed underlying hatred for others that accompanies it.
The thoughts racing through your mind that have pursuaded you to believe that you are somehow "better" than other people are false. Don't believe them. Otherwise you will likely die a very lonely death when your time comes to pass.
cant wait until people like you die off... please do us all a favor and dont pro-create.. or i will wish death to your kids too
Right-wing white power is null & void! Learn to adjust or move to Canada! GOP are old & tired...
agreed... or move to mexico so the cartel can take care of you
"Predator" surveillance craft?
The world wept at 9/11. But things have changed. I don't think anyone will miss much when some U.S. city gets evaporated. It is like watching the fall of the Roman Empire. All decadence and corruption. And no one will miss Teheran either. All poulistic nutter rethoric and abuse of its own citizens. The best would be if these two nutter nations would neutralize each other totally and then two other nutters China and Russia did the same.
Let's all hope it doesn't come to that
I'm glad Obama was reelected then. If it was warmonger Romney, the US would be at war in Iran starting today.
Why we didn't know–Obama didn't want gas to spike just before the elections.
So our cowardly President strikes again. The Iranians fire on our drones and he wants to "negotiate". Too bad he is more motivated to persecute U.S. citizens than he is to challenge foreign adversaries.
Aaawwww...boo-hoo. Did Obamy hurt you? Want a cookie?
Get a life, you really sound pathetic
And YOU sound like a fish with NO gills....................................I suggest you prep for the future. You moron.
Hope you enjoyed the Koolaid,when the depression hits you won't be getting any more.
I am prepared.........................no kool-aid stored. Just the essentials. Take care.
sounds like you want another war and cost us more money.. i dont get it you complain about our debt but you want to go to war.... are you going to pay for this?
LMAO some of the people on here are so fooled by Barry I mean Obama. LOL!!!!!
spot on babe.....you so right home
My brothers uncles cousin on my second wife's fathers side says that we were over Iran when this happened and he is a trustworthy as they get!
War with iran now...war with iran now....cmon barakkkkkkkkkkkak do it babe.......we love you messiah
Incidents like this are meant to raise price of oil as a result of renewed tension. That's one thing the Iranians can still due at will and disturb world economy.
The supposed Iranian jet was probably owned by an oil company, or somebody with a vested interest in a potential war with Iran. Either that or we were probably in their airspace. Or maybe they thought it was a toy, and they wanted to play too.
Funny how they withheld this information until after the election.
I'd call it borderline treasonous.
This is the nature of the Open and Honest Administration which has been neither.
Sorry Barbara Starr... Maybe Santa should bring you a subscription to 'Jane's'. The Sukhoi SU-25 is NOT a jet fighter as your article claims. It is a ground attack aircraft similar to the USAF's A-10. It is somewhat faster than the A-10 but can carry far less payload. It's odd that this type of aircraft would be used for an interception another aircraft, or even a drone. The SU-25 is not designed to be a dogfighter nor is it even supersonic.. If Iran really wanted to show their flag, they would have deployed a couple of old F-4s leftover from the Shaw or maybe a Mig-21 or 25 or 29.
Well put Ted.
This happened a week ago. Regardless of why that drone was, why are we learning about this now?
Evereyone knows we are learning about this now because the election is over. The shame is we have all come to expect this and it is not a surprise. I am weaving my prayer rug,,, it is only a matter ot time.
It must be the liberal media bias.
Don't be in such a rush to judgement. When a US ship fired a missle on an Iranian passenger plane and killed 300 Iranians, they did not attack us. So it is ok for the US to make a mistake, but not another country?
The July 3, 1988 Iran Air shootdown was an accident that resulted from mistaken radar identification of an airliner as an Iranian F-14. It happened in the middle of a combat zone (Iran-Iraq war) on a day when U.S. ships and helicopters had just fired on Iranian speedboats that were threatening them and commercial vessels in the area.
U.S. ships and aircraft had also engaged Iranian warships in an extensive, day long battle only a few months earlier. (Google "Operation Praying Mantis.")
The difference here is that the Iranian pilots knew perfectly well that they were shooting at a U.S. aircraft that posed no threat to them. (They flew loops around it, for heaven's sake.) This was no accident. It was a provocative and very foolish act on the part of the Iranians. Let's hope that Iran comes to its senses before anything else happens.
They don't know what the drone is. That's the point. They don't know if the drone's nose have a conventional warhead or not. They don't know what the drone's intention is. Especially when it take the drone only 7 minutes to enter Iranian airspace. That is why they send their planes up to warn it away or to see what it is. It's a typical military response. They don't know if the drone is armed or not. Drone in Persian gulf definitely must be military-related.
Let me tell you an interesting story. Couple years ago, a West German teenager landed his airplane in Moscow without getting stopped. The result was increased paranoia in Soviet Air Defense system. They even shot missiles toward weather balloons. Now Iran is in the same if not more dangerous situation with US and Israel. It's little wonder their armed forces will be on high alert for something unknown especially of military origin.
Definately not first on CNN. I heard about this on my Android RSS feed twenty minutes before any major news outlet ran the story. CNN....you try so hard.
CNN has turned from a real news organization to a tabloid news station. I travel a lot in Asia, and when I go to CNN they are always showing dull talking heads...entertainment, self-advertising...just garbage. Al-jazeera, on the other hand is a superior news station...they cover real news around the world. My second choice is BBC. CNN is just trying to copy another garbage "news" network..Fox news. What happened, CNN? You don't have any reporters?
They can read your newspaper from space, while you're sitting on your patio. Iran is a perfect place to "read" from International waters. If they weren't watching them, they would be amiss. If they smoke one of our drones in those waters we'll smoke one of their jets... no problem. Don't underestimate Obama.
thank goodness Romney didn't win.
Well lets not race into Iran and start shooting. Lets learn the facts, then take care of business.
wonder why it was not reported prior to the election? duh...
while i am for peace, but what the Iranians did was indeed an act of aggression. The US should publicly release the drone's flight path and video of the incident to prove it.
Keep an eye on india. they are providing all info to Iran for cheap oil. These hindu Indians are playing a double game with Americans in Iran. ALERT ALERT !!!
I know!! We have an Hindu gas station owner right by my house and his is the cheapest of the entire state of Washington. Wonder about that for years.
Oh look, a Pakistani Shill.
U mf think before u say something
Well, Well, what a surprise! The administration is hiding events from the american people.
That is because they know how stupid most americans truly are.
As the old saying goes, YOU AIIN"'T SEEN NOTHING YET.
Your post shows how stupid you are... NOT the rest of Americans.
How would we treat an Iranian drone 16 miles off our coast?
but our country isn't run by a fanatical nutcase that hates the western world and would do everything possible to obtain a nuclear warhead....and use it...on Israel
Yeah true we would probably do the same thing lol
There's an idea for a new top gun movie. This time we fight iran.
The Iranians are freaking out because they are just a hair away from destruction. This happened one other time and they were shooting their own aircraft in a freak out frenzy. What they don't know is that when it happens, it will be too late when they find out. Stupid muslims...
can you blame the iranian military... what the Iranians were up too???? we are a bit arrogant as a nation to believe we can fly a Predator drone 16 miles off the coast of Iran and expect no repercussions. what if they flew an unmanned predator drone 16 miles off the coast of NYC???
Yeah, the hypocricy is hard to stomach. Hard to believe.
You are way too naive
Actually CNN, Fox News was FIRST to report this! Cheers!
No. That's just the first place you read it.
No big deal, until one realizes that the Iranians located, tracked, and fired upon a USA STEALTH drone. They have solved our stealthing technology. That is HUGE!
How do you know it's an actual stealth drone?
Predator drones are not stealthy.
Why on earth would you believe that?
Just be glad It was not a maned plane, we may have ended up in a war.
The LOL "officials" quoted in this story are hilarious, acting all innocent. "Hey guys, our little harmless SPY DRONE was trolling the coast off of Iran and I can't believe they shot at us!!! We weren't over the line!" Yeah bu your cameras were. You can't tell me the sensors on that thing can't see 12 miles in, give me a break. Sorry, as an American citizen, we are not innocent here and need to own up to it, no special exceptions. Oh and those of you joking about Obama apologizing, I'm sure you appreciated the "soft" apology that was delivered to Osama Bin Laden.
Your "logic" is all over the place. You are obviously not very educated.
Okay enlighten me then Aristotle
How dare you make such a remark about OBL's demise? You WANT to live there, in that type of repressed society? Go right ahead, be our guest, but shut your cake hole with cement before you criticize the democracy which allows morons like you to sound off- all the while just sounding what you are: stupid beyond belief.
Yes! How dare I WHAT? Sounds like you just got mad about a bunch of stuff I didn't even say.
From a Canadian perspective...Only a few weeks ago a Russian Attack sub ( much more deadly then an Iranian SU-35) was discovered and tracked playing hide and seek and practicing its mission of covertly sneaking up on American vessels not 300 miles from the US east cost and only miles from the border of international waters. It was stalking a us carrier group until it was discovered at which point it turned back towards Europe and left/
The response from Obama was to do nothing more then to monitor and track it and to let them know they had been discovered.
To those who say that Obama would have shot down an Iranian drone flying on the edge of Americas airspace...I highly doubt it. Your president although not the best for my country is quite intelligent and is doing a very good job of not dragging your country down the tubes even further then it it already is by engaging in another needless costly war.
As for the russian sub....Seems many of you did not even know it was there.
What's Obama gonna do? Lie again that's all he does is lie lie lie lie!!
Maybe "genius" Joe Biden can tell Oblama what to do. LMAO
As opposed to TBaggers controlling puppet Mittens that's perfectly fine. Biden is the Vice President after all... not some psycho right wing Nazi precursor party.
Aawww...boo-hoo. Did Obamy take your cookies? How old are you, seven? Get a life, take your meds, or whatever you need to do.
I know. Romney would have had us in our 3rd war by now, and we all know thats exactly what we need.
Firstly, Washington has habitually lied so much over the past 12 years that I wouldn't believe anything they say whether it comes from Washington or the Pentagon. Secondly, lets just assume this incident happened: The US has Iran completely surrounded, and we know full well that if China had the US surrounded in the same way the US would be going to war. And you call Iran provocative? Iranian fighters fire a few warning shots at a US drone and Washington gets its pants all in a twist? Give me a break. The US is just itching for an excuse to start a war with Iran and will use any propaganda it can to justify it. If Americans don't know it, the rest of the world bloody well knows it.
Good accurate post. Also, I think that China would take a very dim view of us invading Iran. But, they sold the WMD and people bought into it. Nukes will also sell. Time will tell.
Washington don't need an excuse to start war with Iran.If USA wants to wipe out Iran,hey can and who can do anything about it.China? Russia? Who?
I cant believe how many of you are blaming us for a routine flight in international airspace. I am really starting to believe half of this county is mentally handi capped.
Yeah right. Like you would let a Iranian drone fly 16 miles off the U.S. coast. Freaking hypocrite.
A Russian sub was tracked off the east coast within the past month....close but in international waters. Should we have fired on it because we know it was eavesdropping? I don't think so! This cat and mouse game with Iran is not new and was handled just fine in my estimation. However, they take a chance each time that we won't rain hell on them and one day may go too far.
I think Americans are handicapped. I mean, you voted Obama back into office... Holy hell... You're constantly meddling in the affairs of other nations and regions and you get you panties all in a twist when Iran, (who are completely surrounded by US client states with US bases and weapons pointed at them, who are suffering under US economic warfare against their country), fires a few warning shots at one of your drones? You should be happy that as you continue to provoke Iran that this is all that's happened.
Oh, but Iran didn't outright THREATEN Israel?? Google it.
Has the US ever threatened to "wipe a country off the map"? No.
Funny they waited after the puppet USA election.
You people are a class act! This happened on Nov. 1. Guess what was also happening? Hurricane Sandy where how many people died? I think the White House's priorities were absolutely correct.
what is the name of the video that was to blame for this.
Had we shut down one their aircraft, I'm positive they wouldn't be planning on doing it again. But because we are so predictable, Obama usually responds with a firm threat of an official apology. Let's face it, the longer we wait, the higher the risks of a nuclear confrontation in the near horizon.
Did he apologize to Osama Bin Laden? YEAH... he sure did with an automatic rifle fire in his face. Too bad your fearless leader George W. Bush was not even able to find him hiding in his "ally" country.
Obama didn't kill Bin Laden... The Navy Seals did...
Here's a newsflash–Aerican didn't vote for your neocon wars.
Don't worry every time some Iranian wants to fire a couple of AK47 rounds from his soviet era jet, there's no need to go to war just yet. Remember that Obama is the one who successfully oversaw the the killing of Osama Bin Laden. There are times when you shouldn't fly off the handle and act irrationally. Obama knows when to lay the pipe. Just ask Michelle.
And if they had a drone flying offshore in int;'l waters, we wouldn't try & shoot it down?... c'mon you bunch of f'k'g children, grow the hell up!..
Spot on. These people are pathetic.
You wimps sound like apologetic peter-puffers. The USA follows maritime and international air-traffic laws.
Stop apologizing and stand up when you see someone breaking the law? If you saw a ra pe in progress, you are the type to wonder what the victim did to warrant the attack while you walk away.
No Dan. We wouldn't. We would provide them a military escort to a safe landing place. We hide from news like this.. Or it is hidden from us. Remeber 9-11-2012. The sheep has spoken. BAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...... Four more years of this. I am weaving m y prayer cloth.
@ Mr. Clarity. That is true. We will provide a proper military escort and they will leave and nobody gets hurt. Now what if the drone/aircraft decided not to listen?
Just a couple of Tom Cruise types letting off a little steam. Boys will be boys.
I love reading everyone's foolish posts.
Heaven forbid we heard about this before the f^&=ing election, Nope there is no threat from Iran just like the are no terorrists. Everyone LOVES us. We are screwed with this guy.
You do remember whose backyard America is playing in....don't you?
Why didn't you report this BEFORE the election????? Since it happened BEFORE the election????? Maybe because you work for the Democratic Party???? Americans are NOT STUPID!!!!!!!! We know what you are about CNN. We also know what FOX is about. You, corrupt, paid for, news media outlets are a DISCRACE TO AMERICA!!!!!!!!
Restraint. Please. Happy you are not in charge of the nuclear codes. De-caf yourself.
Glad you are happy. Keep hiding behind your rock.
Probably because the DoD needs to check things out and recommend a course of action once they analyze everything. Everything that happens between militaries is clearly public knowledge, right?
If it takes more than a week to "anaylize" things.............we are screwed. Get with the program buddy.............a nuclear strike will happen in seconds. Your really think this kind of incident takes this long to figure out? THEY HID THIS BECAUSE OF THE ELECTIONS. Get real and stop hiding behind things.
cnn is not the only news outlet
And this would of changed the election how? Take a chill pill. This is barely important news at all....you obviously have never been in the military and don't realize how often other countries do dumb stuff to us
Being in the "military" does not make you a saint. You have no right to down someone just because the lack of this. They military is not the "be all end all" of the USA. You don't KNOW everything.
So if we started WW3 before the election, you would be happy with that? Just checking.
So in your world CNN is involved in a conspiracy to cover up news unfavorable to Obama until after the election... Why? And what about all the other news stations? Were they in on the conspiracy too?
Stop running around like a chicken with your head cut off. You lost the election. Deal with it. Don't try and spin this into something that it's not.
Oh no! If only we'd heard this before the election! It would have changed everything!
What an impaired intellect.
I assume the U.S. response will be that the fearless leader obama will personally fly to Iran to suck the toes of Ahmadinejad? ...sounds about right.
Regarding the miscreants who overan our embassy & held our staff hostage in 1979, kill 'em all (regime) & let Allah sort 'em out. The Iranians have American blood on their hands many times over & we've not responded in kind. This war is late out of the gates.
did the iranians shoot down an american commercial airplane carrying 300 innocent people?
No, but the Iranian military was supplying explosively shaped penetrators for IED's that killed and maimed hundreds of US servicemen and women in Iraq. They also supply Hezbollah with money and arms for their terrorist war against Israel. And long before the Airbus incident, they Iranians violated international law and our soil by invading the US embassy and holding the staff hostage for 444 days. Not to mention (and I'm sure you forget this too), the armed Iranian speedboats that have been threatening civilian shipping in the Straits of Hormuz for decades. So really, not having a lot of sympathy here for the Iranian government or military. The Iranian people however, I think are in a bad spot and it is regrettable that they have such an evil dictator for a leader. Hopefully when Israel attacks your nation in the next few weeks and destroys your nuclear weapons program, there aren't too many civilians in the way.
i am not iranian – i am american. the US should not have been iraq in the first place, but though iran may have supplied shi'ite militias there, it was the SUNNI insurgency (supported by our "ally" saudi arabia, who also produced the vast majority of the 9/11 hijackers not to mention bin laden – how many were iranian?) that caused most of the violence there. as for israel, quite aside from the fact that israel is not america's problem and that israeli policies have also been responsible for the violence there, once again the palestinians are sunni and most of their funding comes from sunni countries, not iran.
Are people really indignant over Iranians firing at a DRONE when it was spying? Seriously?
And Iranians... you might as well have thrown a few stones at the drone.
Contrary to illiterates who don't know any better, it's not against any laws, treaties or other conventions to fly drones in international waters ... regardless if they are "spying or anything else.
Don't even bother... Pointless
This news was NOT first on CNN. About two hours ago, I checked foxnews and that news was on their page. Right away, I check BOTH cnn US and cnn international, both of which did not have that news on their respective page.
I checked the Fox site too but the virus scan told about malware there so I wouldn't go there.
This is true. I did the same thing (check all news sites – not a single one but FOX News had reported it). Cheers!
did the iranians shoot down an american commercial airplane carrying 300 innocent people?
Did the American People attack the Iranian embassy and hold the diplomatic staff for over a year? A clear act of agression? Idiots like you need to stay in Iran or whateer rock you're hiding under
I think he's referring to when russia shot down the flight from s. korea that had accidently flew over its border.
actually i am referring to when the US navy shot down an iranian commercial airliner in the 1980's. i don't know what country you think i am from, but i am american. i just don't see what is such a big deal about iran being our enemy. we have had enemies before, even nuclear-armed ones (USSR, north korea, china, an unstable (though nominally an ally) pakistan). iran CAN be contained. there is no need for war.
Look at the google maps for the Persian Gulf.. Bushehr Nuclear power plant is right there east of Kuwait. Yeah fly spy drones near one of our reactors and see our response, this was aggression by the Americans if anyone.. Sixteen miles is point blank range in modern times.
We as Latino,Black and White Americans if something takes place with Iran & Israel I will leave it up to them because we have giving up our live in the Iraq war & Afganistan where Israel did not had a big percentage of their people participating in that war ladies & gentlemens
this is easy, tomorrow send up a drone with missles and take out those planes, come on Obama, I wonder why the world/China thinks they can walk all over us. This is not war mongering, it is called self defense. Embarass the F out of them when 2 of their pilots are shot out of the sky by a remote controlled toy with air to air missiles while they shoot their peas at it.
So basically start a war when U.S. was the aggressor and sent a drone spying over their airspace? Have you not had enough debt because of two unpaid wars that you want to start a THIRD one?
Go on google maps and search for Persian Gulf! Its in the other side of the world. what the hell is an American Drone doing near their boarders.
It was in INTERNATIONAL airspace over the Persian Gulf, likely protecting oil tankers and cargo shipments so that YOU can drive your SUV 2 miles to the grocery store whenever you want.
Did you even read the article????
Learn to spell Tom and thanks to American genius, you can view Google maps. You're welcome.
Let's send in SEAL team six,SWAT,and GI Joe and kill Assad and stop this country before it's too late (I.E create a Necule miscle capable of blowing up our GREAT AMERICA)
Assad is the President of Syria you bafoon.
Ahhaaahaahahahahahaha!!!!! Hahahahaha!!! (Gasp)... Aaaaahhhhahahahahahahaha!!! LMFAO! Thanks idiot. I needed that.
FIRST ON CNN??? I read it elsewhere on Wednesday morning
Iran had a right to shoot at that drone. It was in their airspace and posed a threat to their national security. America would have reacted the same way. Iran should know this however: For every drone they shoot down, there are 100 they never even notice.
According to the United States, the drone was in International Air Space.
Of course, the United States is the same government using drones to spy on United States citizens and cameras to shake down drivers.
I'm sure that the United States would never lie about the Iran drone thingy though.
It was in international airspace. Reading is fundamental
@Bull311,do you have problems interpeting the story,the drone was 16 miles offshore of Iran in international waters which starts at 12 miles off their coast,that leaves 4 miles to play,I see you're not good in math are yah!!
I would say Bull311 is right. 1) 16 miles sure in international waters. Do you know how fast drones can go? This type of drone at most can go up to 135 mph. Divide 16 miles by 135 mph. That means the drone can enter Iranian airspace in 0.11 hours. I'll leave it to you guys to figure out how many minute that is. That's not enough time to scramble a jet 2) Drone = military. If it were a commercial airliner, then Iran would be overreacting. But Iran doesn't know what the drone can do. So they play it safe and send two fighters up to take a look...especially if it was around a high security area. We would do the same too. Especially when we don't know, we assume the worse.
We need to be firing on the drones that fly our coasts and the drones that local police are beginning to use. Remember...the only good drone is a dead drone!
No rifle that can shoot over 50 yards? Then go take out the red light cameras.
Fish worry about your own country butt out. you must not have friends there. I can see why. Out of all the colors of crayons in the box you are not the brightest at all. Do you have crayons there?
\what, does the truth hurt? What gives your country the right to do whatever it wants in the world? What if your coast was teaming with Chinese or Iranian warships? How would you react?
@Fish,if you have problems posting here go the hell home to Iran where nuts like you get along!!And remember years ago foriegn subs were sitting off of Miami Beach,big deal..We the big boys on the block,so there!!
Wow, this is such a none story, the Iranian pilots watched Top Gun one too many times. They were showing off against a drone and clearly did not intend to shoot it down, but I guarantee they would not do that against a manned fighter. The only real question worth asking is how high up the chain of command this was authorized or is this simply to gung-ho morons.
Whose to say we won't do the same if a foreign drone wandered around our vicinity? If a Chinese drone was 12 nautical miles off of New London, Kings Bay, Bangor, or Norfolk, we would send fighters up too. So do we have any right to protest? Our fighters would have fired a warning shot or loop around it.
They have been, in addition our ships have been charged at and so forth with some regularity. We've held our fire.
We don't know that. We weren't always there. If the drone continues to be there, I guarantee we will fire a shot to get its attention to leave. Even in international waters, we still will do that. Remember back in the Cold War how those Soviet Trawlers will dog US carriers in international waters? Often it takes a shot across the bow from the destroyer to tell the trawler to leave. Soviets might log a complaint about international bullying but safety and security are always the priority. No, we don't always hold our fire. And it also depends where the drone is flying. If it is a highly sensitive area, then the drone is history.
If an Iranian drone came within the same distance around U.S. waters, what would the U.S. do?
Sure that drone was just taking pictures of the beautiful landscape. Why would we be flying a drone over international waters? drones are for surveilance and attacking.
The Obama administration hiding something from the American people? Who would have guessed?
The idiots who voted for _bama don't see it.
It's not a guess. Every other President that has ever been in office has done the same thing.
He 'hid' something from the american people for about a week. That is not a lot of time. Also, there are plenty of things that the American people will never know about. Be grateful.
Let me guess, I bet all you chicken hawk would love nothing more than to start another war and send your neighbors son and daughter to fight while you hide out in the basement and complain about how much it cost.
you republicans c-suckers cough a few up and get with the program
Don't worry Obama will send them a nasty letter
Not a "nasty" letter, he will send a heartfelt appology, for invading their "waters"(international waters), and claim that the attack was provoked by a blogger somewhere in the U.S. making "mean spirited" comments about the prophet...According to him, America can do nothing right...
The mission was so classified the Iranians knew about it.
US drones have nothing to do over Iran. They are shot down? Tough.
They were over Kuwait, not Iran
Read the article, are you people stupid? It was in international airspace, not over Iran nor had it been. Sheesh.
No kidding. What article are these guys reading? If they were over Iran, we would EXPECT them to be shot at.
The drone survived. Guess that says a lot about the quality of Iranian pilots.
Was that Maverick flying in that SU-25? Let me guess, he flew inverted and gave the drone "the finger" too.
Really!!! First Benghazi and The media is silent and now post election CNN wants to report on global terrorism? What a crock. CNN and Obama can take a flying leap. How's it feel to be played America!
Do you know why the Republicans and Mormon Bishop Mittens stop talking about Benghazi?
Here's a HINT: it was a REPUBLICAN who screwed-up
I don't care who's fault it was, it was buried and lied about. Who's in charge Obama! So if it was a republican then why didn't the administration pounce on it? Don't be a sheep, cover up is under way and its the current administrations responsibility to own it.
Hillary's a Republican?
It was just as beneficial to Romney that this information was not reported the day before elections: why would it be in America's better interest to elect a business man with no foreign policy experience in the middle to aggressive Iranian actions? Obama's much better suited to handle these events than Romney.
Your right, Obama is better suited to handle this situation. He has apologizing down to a science...
Look at the google maps for the gulf.. Bushehr Nuclear power plant is right there east of Kuwait. Yeah fly spy drones near one of our reactors and see our response, this was aggression by the Americans if anyone.. Sixteen miles is point blank range in modern times.
Much as I abhorr the Iranian government, I agree with you. We must ground our drones and stop unilateral surveillance and bombings. My only regret is that they didn't hit it. Drones have pretty much destroyed the anti-war movement here, as evidenced by Obama ordering more airstrikes in year one than Bush did in all 8, and the anti-war crowd gladly voted for him again. We can't keep bombing whomever we don't like with no accountability, or at least we shouldn't.
Reblogged this on thesurvivalplaceblog.
How would you feel if Iran had some flying crap 16 miles of our shore. International huh.


text:
TOPEKA, Kan. (AP) Police say a suspect in a Topeka homicide is in custody after he engaged law enforcement officers in two gunfights in Nebraska.
Topeka police say in a news release that the 33-year-old man was arrested early Thursday after he allegedly robbed a convenience store and engaged in two gunfights in Johnson County, Neb., about 25 miles north of the Kansas-Nebraska border. One deputy was injured.
The man is a suspect in a shooting Wednesday in Topeka that left one man dead and a woman injured. The victim's name has not been released.
The Topeka Capital-Journal reports police said earlier that a woman and girl were with the suspect when he fled Topeka but it was unclear if they were with him when he was arrested.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Not sure what else to call it really – coffee grounds are crack for worms.
If you add coffee grounds into a worm farm they will go nuts for it, reducing the whole pile into luscious vermicast in no time.
Heh even better because it only does them good.
And now via the power of digital images, I bring you my earthworm drug of choice…
Plenty of fat worms, baby worms, and eggs.
One of my YouTube videos on the combination of worms and coffee.
Now look at the condition of these large, flat bodied compost worms. In this case the worms were trying to escape the compost bin on a hot day, which had just been filled with coffee grounds and some quail manure. A case of them just saying no to drugs?
Go collect some coffee grounds. On behalf of the worms I thank you!
Related articles
- How to Make and Use Worm Tea (groundtoground.org)
- Day 88 – Worm Composting from The Soulsby Farm (yearofhealthierliving.wordpress.com)
- Vermicomposting – Composting With Worms (tinyoklahomagarden.wordpress.com)


text:
Software patents have long been contentious things, but patents in other areas of science are also becoming frequent subjects of editorials and court cases, with biotech and genomics making it to the Supreme Court. Now, if an editorial in Nature is to be believed, nanotechnology is set to become the latest patent battleground.
Joshua Pearce is a professor at Michigan Technological University, and he very explicitly argues for taking an open-source and open-access approach to nanotechnology research. But he also goes well beyond that, calling for a patent moratorium and a gutting of the law that governs tech transfers from government-funded university research. At stake, he argues, is the growth of a field that could be generating trillions of dollars of economic activity within a few years.
Pearce's viewpoint may seem like a radical overreaction, but there are technical reasons that nanotech might be more prone to patent troubles than other fields. Though often portrayed in science fiction as having something to do with tiny robots, nanotechnology is actually based on the premise that the familiar properties of materials in the world around us can be radically altered when those same materials are structured on nanometer length scales. To give one example, nanoparticles of gold aren't actually golden (a suspension of them looks red) and they have a different melting point from the bulk metal. More significantly for commercial purposes, their catalytic activity can change dramatically—gold nanoparticles can be used in the production of completely different chemicals.
Normally, the natural properties of a material aren't patentable. But in this case, there is often a well-defined innovation, in the form of a manufacturing process that is needed to create specific nanomaterials. And slight tweaks to the process can often have significant influences on the properties of the end product. To give another example, carbon nanotubes can be either metallic or semiconducting, and the two types have radically different applications. IBM's recent advance in producing nanotube-based transistors depended entirely on the semiconducting version.
Partly as a result, Pearce has found that there are over 1,600 US patents that mention single-walled carbon nanotubes. Intel has one that covers any with a diameter of less than 50nm; Rice University holds one for any material that is over 99 percent pure nanotube. The nightmare faced by anyone attempting to innovate in that space should be obvious, but in case it wasn't, Pearce cites an example where a small nanotech company faced legal fees that were a substantial fraction of its assets, and another where a jury hit a company with damages that were nearly twice its total value.
Some of Pearce's solutions are perfectly reasonable. He argues that the National Science Foundation adopt the NIH model of making all research it funds open access after a one-year time limit. But he also calls for an end of patents derived from any publicly funded research: "Congress should alter the Bayh-Dole Act to exclude private IP lockdown of publicly funded innovations." There are certainly some indications that Bayh-Dole hasn't fostered as much innovation as it might (Pearce notes that his own institution brings in 100 times more money as grants than it does from licensing patents derived from past grants), but what he's calling for is not so much a reform of Bayh-Dole as its elimination.
Pearce wants changes in patenting to extend well beyond the academic world, too. He argues that the USPTO should put a moratorium on patents for "nanotechnology-related fundamental science, materials, and concepts." As we described above, the difference between a process innovation and the fundamental properties resulting in nanomaterial is a very difficult thing to define. The USPTO has struggled to manage far simpler distinctions; it's unrealistic to expect it to manage a moratorium effectively.
It could be that, a bit like Stallman, Pearce is attempting to be provocative as a means of focusing attention on a topic that has otherwise been widely ignored. If so, it has worked—the issues he points out seem worthy of attention. But, as with Stallman, incremental solutions seem more likely than the sweeping changes he's calling for.
Nature, 2012. DOI: not yet available.


text:
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text: Thoracic malignancies are major, global health problems. Lung cancer is the most common cancer and cause of cancer death in the world, with more than 1.5 million deaths per year. More Americans will die from lung cancer each year (approximately 159,480) than from colon, breast, pancreatic, and prostate cancer combined (approximately 158,630), the next most common causes of cancer death. Esophageal cancer is the 6th most common cause of cancer deaths worldwide, and the 4th most common cause in developing nations. This course will provide a comprehensive, multidisciplinary introduction to state of the art approaches in the care of patients with thoracic malignancies, including various types of lung cancers and esophageal cancers. Didactic material will cover epidemiology, screening and diagnosis, staging, imaging, radiation therapy, systemic therapy, surgery, psychiatry, and patient support topics. This is an on-demand course with integrated learning units that are focused on specific topics. Each unit contains several video lectures with interactive questions and is followed by a short quiz. Prerequisites: None required although basic medical training in some field related to thoracic oncology would be helpful.


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Post-Hurricane Opportunities
Although coping with hurricanes is difficult, it does offer the opportunity to make homes more energy efficient and comfortable.
When Florida was slammed by a record four hurricanes in the late summer of 2004, many homes were seriously damaged. Following the storms, the demand for repairs—including reroofing—far exceeded the supply of contractors who could provide such services. Meanwhile, many Floridians experienced power outages that left them without air conditioning, and suffered accordingly. Further, many homes sustained floor water damage— particularly in carpeted or wood floor areas.
Although coping with the aftermath of hurricanes is difficult, Florida Solar Energy Center (FSEC) looked to provide help by offering practical advice and applying research findings to those who were tackling repairs after a hurricane. Most homes can be made more energy efficient and comfortable,which is particularly advantageous in the event of power outages, and more resilient when facing future storms.
Cool Roofs
One major repair that must often be made after a hurricane is reroofing. By choosing the right roofing materials, you can make your entire home cooler, which will result in reduced energy use when your air conditioner is on, and more comfortable living conditions when power is not available.
Over the last decade, FSEC research has clearly shown that a white reflective tile or a white metal roof can reduce space-cooling loads by 20% or more. More recent testing has shown that unfinished Galvalume roofs—which look like brushed aluminum—can provide about half the cooling benefit of white roofs (see "Improving Attic Thermal Performance," HE Nov/Dec '04, p.12). Light-colored tile roofs can provide similar improvements in performance. FSEC tests show that attics covered by dark shingle roofs can reach temperatures as high as 140ºF on summer days.Meanwhile, a white metal or white tile roof never gets much hotter than the outside temperature. Light-colored tile or metal roofs register somewhere between dark shingle roofs and white tile or metal roofs.
Though metal roofs can cost twice as much as shingle roofs, and tile roofs cost 3 times as much, they last at least 2 to 3 times as long and keep the home much cooler. That means average savings of about $120 per year in reduced air conditioning as well as a much cooler home when the power goes out and takes the air conditioning with it.
If you must choose shingles for structural reasons (many roofs cannot support the weight of tiles without physical strengthening), it is best to select the lightest- colored shingles available.You should also consider installing a foil radiant barrier on the underside of the roof decking. Testing performed for the Florida Power and Light Company showed that simply choosing white shingles would reduce space cooling by 4% , and choosing lightcolored shingles with a radiant barrier should cut cooling costs by twice that or more. All these options will provide slightly better comfort on the interior when air conditioning is not available.
A standard, 2,500 ft2 roof will cost $5,000–$6,000 to replace with shingles, $8,000–$12,000 to replace with metal, and about $15,000 to replace with concrete barrel tile. Many homes cannot support the weight of a tile roof without extensive work beforehand, making metal roofs, such as factory-painted white or Galvalume, the more practical choice for many households.
A Stronger, More Forgiving Roof
When a house is exposed to hurricane forces, the roof is the building component most susceptible to damage, followed by the walls and openings, and then the foundation. Data collected by HUD studies after major hurricanes bear this out. These studies found that water penetration was also a major problem whenever roofing material was removed by wind action.For steep roof systems,many roofing failures occurred at the ridge or gable ends, where wind-induced forces were the highest. In a number of forensic evaluations, it was consistently found that the presence of gable ends increased the chances of roof failure after hurricanes.
Roofs that are likeliest to fail during hurricanes are poorly attached tile roofs or older lower-cost shingle roofs—particularly those applied with staples,which are now forbidden by current Florida building codes (the allowed fastener system is nails). Properly attached tile and metal roofs tend to do better in such storms, as evidenced in numerous poststorm studies conducted by HUD after Hurricanes Andrew, Hugo, and Iniki in the 1990s.
However, construction quality matters with all roofing systems. Properly installed hurricane straps, nails, and screws are a must.Tile roofs should be stoutly installed with screws rather than with mortar set, which is more prone to failure.Even with proper attachment for tile roofs, particular attention should be given to strong fasteners at the eaves, corners, and ridges where failure is more common. A properly attached shingle roof with high-quality architectural- grade shingles should do well.
In any case, homeowners seeking repairs should obtain multiple bids and deal only with licensed, reputable contractors. However, this is exceedingly difficult after a storm. Many homeowners with leaking roofs are looking for immediate solutions, and that often means improvised fixes—such as tarpaulins. And the fact that older shingle roofs
often fail when exposed to severe winds leaves many homeowners whose homes have shingle roofs looking for roofing contractors at the same time as they are recovering from the storm.
In spite of the energy and longevity benefits of the light-colored tile or metal roofs, many homeowners still choose shingles, partly because they are cheaper to install. Many homeowners choose dark-colored shingles for aesthetic reasons. Wind-resistant shingles are available, although they are more expensive. It is generally best to use three-tab self-sealing shingles with a six-nail application pattern, but you can choose light-colored shingles at no extra cost. Also, adding good ridge vents to a roofing system is another smart idea. The HUD post-hurricane research found that effective ridge ventilation was important in preventing sheathing uplift during hurricanes. Finally, if you install another shingle roof and have good attic ventilation, consider adding an attic radiant barrier to reduce attic heat gain.
In short, it is possible to improve a shingle roof—but a tile or metal roof will last longer and will better resist storm damage. Indeed, there are many metal roofs in central Florida that were installed in the early 1900s and are still providing reliable service. Some tile roofs in South Florida are still in use as well, even though they were installed in the 1950s. If you choose a cooler roofing system, such as light colored tile or metal, that is stoutly installed, you will be less likely to suffer storm damage and you will enjoy year-round savings on air conditioning.
HUD research also recommends that you consider the following issues to make your roof stronger:
• If you are installing a new roof with trusses, consider a hipped roof rather than one with gable ends. The latter tend to be more prone to storm damage. Highly pitched roofs with gable ends are particularly vulnerable. This is also the time to minimize roof penetrations, such as those for kitchen and bath exhaust vents, by running them out through the soffit. Note that furnace and range exhaust must still be run through the roof, however.
• You may also want to consider the new technique of unvented attics. Most Florida homes have vented attics, with batt or blown-in insulation applied just above the ceiling. This exposes air conditioning ductwork to very high temperatures and further magnifies any problems associated with duct leakage. Sealing the attic envelope and insulating at the roof deck provides a semiconditioned space for the ductwork, reducing conductive heat gain and minimizing the detrimental impact of any duct leakage. Water intrusion and hurricane resistance may also be improved.
If the building has gable ends, plan to have the ends stoutly braced. Do not install gable vents, which are prone to water leaks during wind-driven rain.
Plan to limit overhang width and instead use awnings, Bahama shutters, or other means to shade windows. Although porches are wonderful, they should be stoutly anchored.
• If the attic has soffit ventilation, it is important to provide ridge venting to prevent dangerous uplift on roof sheathing during high winds.
• Verify that hurricane straps, nails (with shingles), and screws (with tile) are properly used.
• Renail any sheathing that looks loose.
• Be sure to get all of the roof vents and caps examined to see that they are properly attached and replace any that are weathered or damaged.
Windows and Doors
Most Floridians know that it's important to use hurricane shutters for windows as a safety measure during storms, but most Floridians have not considered how some systems—such as louvered Bahama shutters or awning shutters— can provide shading for windows when they are not being used to protect them from storms. Such shading devices can also be deployed more rapidly and easily than stored plywood or storm panels. And some of the new impact-resistant glass systems come with double-strength laminated glass, with solar-control properties that can cut down on heat transmission— a desirable characteristic nearly year-round in Florida's climate (see "Better Glass for Coastal Homes").
It is also useful to improve the anchorage of windows to openings that are old or in poor repair—particularly for a large expanse of glass such as a sliding glass door. Also, garage doors—particularly double-wide garage doors—can be strengthened to improve storm resistance.
Tile Floors
With the recent hurricanes, many homeowners have suffered water damage in the form of soaked carpets.Without power to dry them, there is an increased risk of mold or mildew, and many of these carpets have been ruined. Back during the 1960s, before most houses had air conditioning, and at a time when hurricanes in Florida were more prevalent, many Florida homes had tiled or terrazzo floors. Not surprisingly, a tiled or terrazzo floor is much less susceptible to water damage, and cleanup is simple.There are also no carpets to create a potentially devastating mold problem.
Perhaps just as important, FSEC research has shown that tiled floors feel cooler than carpets because they are in direct contact with the cooler ground underneath (the deep ground temperature in any location is equal to the average annual air temperature; for example, it's 72°F in Orlando). This free cooling is worth up to 1/2 a ton of air conditioning during early summer. And it can be a godsend when there is no air conditioning after a hurricane.
Even more importantly, research, including that by Subrato Chandra at FSEC, has shown that, in Florida homes, carpeted floors can provide an attractive breeding ground for dust mites—a wellknown source of allergens for many people (see "Allergy Relief in Humid Climates,"HE Mar/Apr '02, p. 30).
All these factors suggest that replacing most of your moisture-damaged carpeted floors with tile will improve cooling and comfort and reduce allergic reactions in the occupants. Confine carpet to bedrooms only, or consider the use of throw rugs.
Although many homeowners will want to accomplish the repairs to their homes as soon as possible, they will do well to consider the long-term benefits of making energyefficient choices as they make those repairs. Smart choices in building materials will provide superior protection against further storms while saving more energy. Equally important, replacing the damaged portions of your home with smart, energy-efficient materials will also ensure the comfort and health of your home.
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Would you put the police on Angie's List?
Police work is generally regarded as blue collar. Consumer's rights: Our taxes pay for the police, so we're consumers of a paid-for service.
How would you rate the job they're doing?
March 5, 2015 Posted by newleftblog | Uncategorized | Leave a comment
— Archives below —
Keeping the pilot light on
Since the late 1970s and Ronald Reagan's inauguration we've seen supply side economics, deregulation, an explosive growth of free markets, the sapping of union power.
The Left's objective is still vague. Liberalism gets its spirit from equity, justice, and collective action. That spirit is all but broken, witness the precipitous inequalities in America, witness the virtual disappearance from our language of terms like "the common good," witness unions at their all-time low memberships, witness the Supreme Court retreating from enforcement of anti-trust laws.
During the Bush administration, the Left's tolerance melted into passivity. Energetic leftists of the 1960s, once in the media spotlight, grew wealthy and cautious.
Not just that. Any spirit on the left was also broken down into fractions. Watch a peace march, a good place to find leftists, and you saw a sea of different banners, for as many different causes. All of them good. But there is no center.
The left reached another crisis point. Since then, an agitated search for what's to blame.
It's partly the money. The left needs to find something else besides wealth. Today, everybody in America sleeps safe under a star, the idea that one day, they will be rich. Americans navigate their whole lives by that star. So commercialism dominates everything – and it has saturated even the left. Commercialism everywhere. Lefties worry about their credit score and worry about security.
Sold out.
This President has abandoned any serious atteempts at facing up to the banks. It looks like loss of nerve.
Which way to turn?
After Obama took the presidency, the first order of business was the economic collapse – undoing the money mess created by the Bush administration. Rebuilding our infrastructure. Rebuilding our schools. – But all of those had the tone of cleaning up somebody's old wreckage. Fixing health care. Job by necessary job. But all that is not 'forward.'
It's partly that Liberals have lost their 'forward.' This is as deep a crisis as our submission to Wall Street. It is a collective loss of nerve.
There's no fallen flag to grab up in the Liberal movement because there is no longer any flag.
Congress has no unified 'forward.' The American people have no unified forward. Once, we had the Occupy Movement. It suffered from lack of any forward agenda, and caved to police action. So now liberals talk about their frightening college debts or get fearful about retirement. Since we have no more effective restriction on exorbitant interest rates, they sap anybody's courage.
The heart of the matter is that there is no new ideology.
There's few leftist commentators, talk show liberals who churn the air like windmills.
But no coherent new theory, to unify.
Except here.
Only on this blog can you read whetherexploitation is ethical. Only here can you read about the contradiction between the American workplace – undemocratic and authoritarian – and the surrounding democracy. Read why social inequality is a killer (there's new scientific evidence). About the long shadow of materialism. On widening corruption. Here the zero-sum concept is explained. Read how, in the long run, exorbitant greed may threaten democracyitself. A brief summary of opposing Right and Left philosophies here andhere.
Opinion is power.
But every year for the last 30 years, debate has faded; the left almost became mute. Liberals have avoided theory confrontations. Not in Congress, not at beer parties.
Every time that happened, the left's light dimmed.
Left ideology. This blog is where we keep the pilot light on.
[Comments: click on 'Keeping the pilot light on' in the Header, or in Pages, below]
How the Right dominates
People are fascinated by conflict.
The Right wing is energetically shoving blame for the national economy onto the Left. One of the right's bullies, Bill O'Reilly, dealt out his thrashings on t.v.
Right wing commentators run an ostentatious tyranny. It is the source of the public's fascination with the Right.
The Left considers itself too nice for this bruiser style. The Left simply doesn't have head-crushers like Limbaugh and O'Reilly. There is no Fox News on the left, and right-wing radio shows vastly outnumber left-wing. The Left thinks that being morally good, maybe showing a tolerant sense of humor, should be enough to prevail.
It is not, and the Left has no real idea how to push back. So the Left, with its natural compassion, its collective action, its trust, its usury laws, are all being put through the meat grinder.
Surviving a reactionary
One look at this man and you know you're dead: here.
Civil war looming within the Democratic party?
The Democratic party has lost its soul. Here's why.
If our children are being raised on Ayn Rand, we're in trouble
– here'swhy.
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AboutThis website is non-denominational left, running a search for basic values. That involves favoring some views, debating others; also asking readers a lot of questions - the opinion polls. And then: whether our political parties have a connection with these values. For instance in Congress, the Democratic party steers laws and policy that hugely affects people's lives, doing something about economy and wars, and such, but at this point in history it looks like it's plunging around without an ideology. Literally. That means - no map.
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LEFT BLOG a rare cross-overPolitical Science professors John Sides and Eric Lawrence did some research which is reported in their blog themonkeycage.org showing that in general political blogs draw almost all of their readers from their side of the spectrum. So over 90% of left wing readers go to left wing blogs, etc. So most political blogs are preaching to the choir. LEFT BLOG does it different, since most of its readers (check the comments) are hard right wing.
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Erie-based weapons accessory maker Magpul Industries put on sale this week a 30-round ammunition magazine bearing the inscribed logo "Free Colorado" and "Boulder Airlift" as part of an effort to raise money to fight gun-control efforts in the state and beyond.
The company announced on its Facebook page that it sold out of the limited-run magazine, a PMAG that fits an AR-15 assault-style rifle, in hours.
"Well…that was quick," read Magpul's message, posted on Monday. "We are currently sold out of both versions of the magazine. We will fit in another run as soon as we can do so without affecting other production."
The company is in the process of relocating to another state in the wake of legislation passed in March by state legislators and signed into law by Gov. John Hickenlooper that limits the sale of magazines in Colorado to those with 15 rounds or fewer.
Free Colorado and Boulder Airlift refer to public relations campaigns the company launched in an attempt to fight the legislation. The Boulder Airlift campaign included imagery based on the Berlin Airlift of the late 1940s.
Magpul said it is putting the proceeds from the sale of the magazines, which are priced at $64.75 each, into efforts to combat other gun-control measures that are under consideration in the country.
"Proceeds from the sales of these PMAGs will go towards the legal battle against recent unconstitutional firearms legislation in (Colorado) and other firearms rights efforts nationwide in which Magpul is involved," the company wrote on its website.
Magpul hasn't yet announced where it is relocating its operations, despite frequent and heartfelt requests from fans on its Facebook page urging the company to move to where they live.
The company also altered on the limited-run magazines its 10-year anniversary logo – a skull-and-crossbones image bearing the years 1999-2009 – to the dates 1999-2013 to "denote the time that Magpul existed in a free Colorado."
Magpul has not yet responded to requests for comment.


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6th annual career fair a win-win for all involved
By RICHARD CROFTON
CHEBOYGAN — For those who are having a difficult time finding work, or may be wanting a career change, there is an opportunity coming up that cannot be missed.
On April 17, from noon-4 p.m., the sixth annual 2013 Career Fair for Cheboygan and Presque Isle counties will be held at the National Guard Armory, 610 Cuyler St., in Cheboygan.
"This is the final of four career fairs held in Northeast Michigan," said Tamara Ward, business liaison in the two counties for Michigan Works! and the Northeast Michigan Consortium. "This is a match between employer and job seekers."
More than 60 employers currently are registered to attend the event.
"It is really diverse this year," Ward said. "Several new businesses are slated to be there, along with a lot of established businesses."
Areas such as healthcare, insurance, production and retail/hospitality are going to be represented at the event.
Ward said there will be a lot of openings that are full-time careers, but first impressions made by perspective employees is everything.
"The first impressions are made within the first seven seconds, even before they look at skills," she said. "People need to come prepared to make a lasting impression."
To impress an employer, Ward said people should dress professionally and be prepared for on-site interviews, have ample copies of a professional resume on hand and plan to look for a career and not just a part-time job.
"This is an employers' market," she said. "This event will give employers the opportunity to pre-screen potential candidates."
If you see an opening but are afraid to apply because you don't have the skills, no worries.
"Northeast Michigan employers are willing to train those who make that first lasting impression," Ward said. "This gives potential employees a chance to build a skill set."
In the last three years of the event, Ward said between 500-600 people have attended the career fair.
"Employers are telling us this is an effective way for them to get jobs filled," she said. "Some of the employers are from the region and not just local. This is because residents should expect to travel a half-hour for long-term jobs."
She also said this is a win-win-win for everyone.
"It is a good partnership for the employers ― we do all the planning and all they have to do is show up," Ward said. "It is good for Michigan Works! and it is good for those looking for a career."
For more information about the career fair, contact Michigan Works! at (231) 627-4303 or (989) 733-8548. Also, it is not recommended to bring children to the event.


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Tuesday's choice
My local newspaper runs a column fron Charles Krauthammer every Sunday. Perhaps you have read it in your newspaper, but, if you haven't, it is worth reading whatever your political persuasion is. Here it is in its entirety.
"Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not." That was Barack Obamain 2008. And he was right. Reagan was an ideological inflection point, ending a 50-year liberal ascendancy and beginning a 30-year conservative ascendancy.
It is common for one party to take control and enact its ideological agenda. Ascendancy, however, occurs only when the opposition inevitably regains power and then proceeds to accept the basic premises of the preceding revolution.
Thus, Republicans railed for 20 years against the New Deal. Yet when they regained the White House in 1953, they kept the New Deal intact.
And when Nixon followed LBJ's Great Society — liberalism's second wave — he didn't repeal it. He actually expanded it. Nixon created the Environmental Protection Agency, gave teeth to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and institutionalized affirmative action — major adornments of contemporary liberalism.
Until Reagan. Ten minutes into his presidency, Reagan declares that "government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem." Having thus rhetorically rejected the very premise of the New Deal/Great Society, he sets about attacking its foundations — with radical tax reduction, major deregulation, a frontal challenge to unionism (breaking the air traffic controllers for striking illegally) and an (only partially successful) attempt at restraining government growth.
Reaganism's ascendancy was confirmed when the other guys came to power and their leader, Bill Clinton, declared (in his 1996 State of the Union address) that "the era of big government is over" — and then abolished welfare, the centerpiece "relief" program of modern liberalism.
In Britain, the same phenomenon: Tony Blair did to Thatcherism what Clinton did to Reaganism. He made it the norm.
Obama's intention has always been to re-normalize, to reverse ideological course, to be the anti-Reagan — the author of a new liberal ascendancy. Nor did he hide his ambition. In his February 2009 address to Congress he declared his intention to transform America. This was no abstraction. He would do it in three areas: health care, education and energy.
Think about that. Health care is one-sixth of the economy. Education is the future. And energy is the lifeblood of any advanced country — control pricing and production and you've controlled the industrial economy.
And it wasn't just rhetoric. He enacted liberalism's holy grail: the nationalization of health care. His $830 billion stimulus, by far the largest spending bill in U.S. history, massively injected government into the free market — lavishing immense amounts of tax dollars on favored companies and industries in a naked display of industrial policy.
And what Obama failed to pass through Congress, he enacted unilaterally by executive action. He could not pass cap-and-trade, but his EPA is killing coal. (No new coal-fired power plant would ever be built.) In 2006, liberals failed legislatively to gut welfare's work requirement. Obama's new HHS rules does that by fiat. Continued in a second term, it would abolish welfare reform as we know it — just as in a second term, natural gas will follow coal, as Obama's EPA regulates fracking into noncompetitiveness.
Government grows in size and power as the individual shrinks into dependency. Until the tipping point where dependency becomes the new norm — as it is in Europe, where even minor retrenchment of the entitlement state has led to despair and, for the more energetic, rioting.
An Obama second term means that the movement toward European-style social democracy continues, in part by legislation, in part by executive decree. The American experiment — the more individualistic, energetic, innovative, risk-taking model of democratic governance — continues to recede, yielding to the supervised life of the entitlement state.
If Obama loses, however, his presidency becomes a historical parenthesis, a passing interlude of overreaching hyper-liberalism, rejected by a center-right country that is 80 percent nonliberal.
Should they summon the skill and dexterity, Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan could guide the country to the restoration of a more austere and modest government with more restrained entitlements and a more equitable and efficient tax code. Those achievements alone would mark a new trajectory — a return to what Reagan started three decades ago.
Every four years we are told that the coming election is the most important of one's life. This time it might actually be true. At stake is the relation between citizen and state, the very nature of the American social contract.
What "relation between citizen and state" do you envision for your children and grandchildren? And, will the candidate you vote for, regardless of their campaign rhetoric, secure that vision?


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Those of us who are from Los Angeles are lucky enough that several of the photographs in New Topographics: Photographs of a Man-Altered Landscape are in fact our very own man-altered landscape. While the likes of John Schott, Joe Deal, and Nicholas Nixon were out investigating motels along Route 66, scaling hillsides in Albuquerque, and hauling 8×10 cameras to the umpteenth floor in Boston skyscrapers, respectively, Lewis Baltz, Frank Gohlke, and Henry Wessel were making photographic history with the landscapes of Los Angeles and Orange County.
I happened to be in Irvine last week and got the notion to seek out some of the locations that Lewis Baltz shot for his series The New Industrial Parks Near Irvine, California, which are on view in New Topographics. Baltz titled his photos with addresses, so these locations weren't so hard to find. Some of the buildings, however, had apparently been digested into the maw of Irvine's vast expanse of business complexes. Out of nine locations I visited, I only found three of the buildings seen in four of Baltz's photographs.
I'm not the only one being clever like this, however—Britt Salvesen, curator of the present incarnation of New Topographics, also got an email from photographer Brian English reporting that he had visited the location of Frank Gohlke's photograph Landscape, Los Angeles, 1974, at North Hollywood Way and West Clark Avenue in Burbank. And to put the icing on the cake, he just happened to catch a 1970's Plymouth Gold Duster tooling by as well!
So—how about a challenge? Take a look at the photographs by Frank Gohlke and Henry Wessel below. Do you know where in Los Angeles these were taken? Leave a comment if you know the street intersection—or take a picture yourself and give us the link. Happy hunting!
PS don't forget about our weekly New Topographics tours; Shannon Ebner will be leading a tour this Sunday.
Sarah Bay Williams, Ralph M. Parsons Fellow, Wallis Annenberg Photography Department


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Volume 2: The Comparison. [As the sweet sweat of roses in a still]
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