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Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Consensus and a way forward]
"Paterson, Kenny" <email@example.com> Fri, 19 December 2014 10:46 UTC
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From: "Paterson, Kenny" <firstname.lastname@example.com>
To: Watson Ladd <firstname.lastname@example.com>
Thread-Topic: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Consensus and a way forward]
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Subject: Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Consensus and a way forward]
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Dear Watson, On 19/12/2014 04:52, "Watson Ladd" <firstname.lastname@example.com> wrote: >On Dec 18, 2014 12:52 PM, "Paterson, Kenny" <email@example.com> >wrote: >> >> Dear Robert, >> >> I am going to respond to some of the early points in your message below >>on >> behalf of the chairs. Separately, Alexei will respond to some of the >>other >> points. Between us, we may not cover everything in your long e-mail. I >> apologise in advance if this is the case. >> >> On 14/12/2014 21:16, "Robert Ransom" <email@example.com> wrote: >> >> >I second Watson Ladd's concern about the chairs' apparent preference >> >for adopting a document based on draft-black-rpgecc-00 instead of >> >draft-turner-thecurve25519function-01. >> >> Note that the documents are not directly comparable, as you seem to >>imply >> here. draft-turner-thecurve25519function-01 specifies a particular >> key-agreement scheme based on Curve25519. draft-black-rpgecc-00 >>specifies >> a curve generation method that can, inter alia, generate curves at a >> variety of security levels. Its output is not directly usable by >> implementors, of course, and more work would be needed by this group to >> take its output and make it suitable for delivery to the TLS WG, >>assuming >> that this is the direction CFRG wants to go in (an assumption I am not >> making at this stage, but something that I will happily admit that I do >> hope will happen given the way in which this group has been deadlocked >>for >> some time now). > >The requested modification to draft black makes it generate curve25519 >as I understand, but with potentially different generators. If this >request is met, and we add the description of the algorithms, we will >arrive at the contents of draft-turner25519. Why not start there? We could indeed have done that. On the other hand, I believe it's more appealing to agree on a rigid curve generation method and then recommend its outputs, delivering that along with appropriate implementation advice. Perhaps we can even borrow some text from draft-turner25519 to speed things along? Is some of that reusable, do you think? > >We have 6 days, or we will have missed a deadline for the second time. Indeed. > >> >draft-black-rpgecc-00 omits several technical details of ECDH (the >> >precise point format and handling of Œinvalid¹ public-key bitstring >> >inputs) which the extensive implementation experience of Curve25519 >> >has shown are needed to ensure interoperability and forward >> >compatibility and to protect the privacy of users of ECDH >> >implementations on the Internet. >> >draft-turner-thecurve25519function-01 includes those technical >> >details. >> > >> >> Let me repeat. This is correct, but I don't believe it to be relevant >>for >> a document that is focussed on curve generation. > >That's not the document we were asked to produce, and it's not a >document that will help implementors. How does a generation method >help with addressing the request for two or three curves, at security >levels we feel are relevant? It's a document that will produce what we were asked to produce, in a way whose rigidity can be demonstrated (modulo the selection of input primes). This is important to some people here. I know there are people who will object to the fact that the method was tweaked and that the primes have been changed. Personally, though, I don't see that tweaking in order to improve security, as motivated by remarks made by Dan Bernstein, is a bad thing. As for the primes, there we can argue about performance, as you eloquently do below. If there are compelling performance reasons to change the 192-bit level prime, then we should consider doing it. See below for more on this. > >> >> >> > >> >Adopting draft-black-rpgecc-00 (or a revised version) as a CFRG >> >document, instead of (a version of) the previously existing >> >draft-turner-thecurve25519function-01, would raise two serious >> >concerns: >> > >> >* As Watson Ladd has noted, draft-black-rpgecc-00 would require more >> > effort, and thus more time, for CFRG to modify it into a useful >> > product than draft-turner-thecurve25519function-01 would. >> >> But draft-turner-thecurve25519function-01 only specifies a single ECDH >> algorithm for a single curve. And this is not what the RG has been asked >> to produce for recommendation to the TLS WG. Rather, we were asked for >> curves at different security levels (and implicitly, recommendations >>about >> how to use those curves to do key exchange and signatures). So >>substantial >> work would also be needed to turn draft-turner-thecurve25519function-01 >> into what the RG needs to produce. > >Changing a single constant or two is not "substantial work". I've >asked repeatedly for input on what signature format would be >preferred, and gotten little response: my plan this weekend was to >write a version with signatures or a separate document. Timing is everything in I*TF. I think you were asking for the input at the wrong point in the process. Worth reflecting on for the next time, perhaps. > >> >> In short, you are comparing apples and aardvarks here. >> >> > >> >* Adoption of draft-black-rpgecc-00 would reward its authors, both by >> > crediting them as authors of CFRG's resulting document and by giving >> > them greater control over CFRG's product. It is inappropriate for >> > IETF to reward the authors of draft-black-rpgecc-00 for submitting a >> > document to CFRG that they knew to be inferior to a previous >> > submission. >> >> This is not about rewards. It's about meeting the request of the TLS WG. >> And I contend that it's not inferior to >> draft-turner-thecurve25519function-01, >> but a different beast entirely. > >Which one is closer to meeting the express desires of the TLS WG? The >TLS WG does not want a generation method, but rather new curves. And >they don't want new "curves" but rather want us to do the hard work of >specifying a better mechanism. We've already ruled out random primes, >and short Weierstrass cofactor 1, in some cases in the face of >determined opposition. What's so special about the minority holding >out for slow choices of c that we need to appease them also? I don't think it's really a minority - things seem more balanced than that to me, based on my reading of the list. A minute ago you said that it was not hard work to specify multiple curves and algorithms - just a matter of changing some constants! If that's the case, then great, I'd hope you'd get involved in developing draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt and help do that work there, to turn it into what you think we need to deliver. > >> >> > >> >The CFRG chairs have expressed a preference for adopting a version of >> >draft-black-rpgecc, instead of a version of >> >draft-turner-thecurve25519function. Given the above concerns, why do >> >the chairs believe that adoption of draft-black-rpgecc as a CFRG >> >document is in the best interests of CFRG and of the Internet as a >> >whole? >> >> See above. In summary: we believe that, with some modifications to >>enhance >> security (to which MGN have agreed), and additional work to provide >> guidance as to how to use these curves in specific algorithms (ECDH and >> signatures), we can produce a document (or documents) that meet(s) the >> request from the TLS WG. > >And that work has been largely done for Curve25519. > >Are the chairs committed to the choice of Curve 25519 at the 256 size >at this point? Or would they like until Purim for a revised version of >the generation method, an argument about the generators, some debate >over picking a different protocol, and further impatience from the >multiple working groups now blocked on our work? If we can get the >Curve25519 work out the door, with the promise that the larger curve >will use a similar protocol, this should buy us more time to consider >the higher security levels. That would be one way of skinning this particular cat. Another way would be to get involved with draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt and help push it forward. That's what the chairs are proposing. > >> >> > >> >>I'm also surprised that we aren't using 2^389-21 for the same reasons >> >>cited for using 2^255-19. We do not need complete agreement to go >> >>forward. If we want a consensus result we'll still have gratuitous >> >>incompatibilities and an unforced loss of additional performance, in >> >>order to get one particular group on board. A process justified as >> >>being driven by technical criteria has devolved into an openly >> >>political horse trade, where we're supposed to be happy that the >> >>2^255-19 prime is used, and ignore the issues with 2^384-317. >> > >> >I second this concern as well. I have seen very little support in the >> >CFRG for the 384-bit curve specified in draft-black-rpgecc-00, and I >> >do not believe that the short discussion of 2^389-21 as a modulus for >> >elliptic-curve cryptography constitutes a consensus of CFRG or shows >> >that 2^389-21 is technically superior to or has implementation >> >experience comparable to 2^414-17 or 2^448-2^224-1 as moduli for ECC. >> > >> >> Here I agree with you that the specific prime 2^389-21 has not had much >> discussion and therefore not gained consensus in CFRG. But I'm not aware >> of any specific security or implementation concerns about it that would >> not also apply to other "sparse" primes. Can you point to some? For >> example, is there any reason to believe it will be any more difficult to >> make secure against side-channel attacks than other choices at roughly >>the >> same security level? Is it the case that the "implementation experience" >> that you cite for primes 2^414-17 or 2^448-2^224-1, or any other >> pseudo-Mersenne primes, would NOT transfer to this choice of prime? It >> would be really helpful to the group if you could be more specific in >> expressing your concerns here. > >One set of concerns is how efficient it will be compared to Ed448. We >have guesses: there is no substitute for implementations. > >Furthermore, the choice of bitlengths is not set in stone. If Ed448 >could offer the same performance as the 384 bit prime, there would be >no reason not to go for the larger, effectively free length. It >probably won't, but until we have working implementations we don't >know. > >Furthermore, accepting the black draft does not mean picking 2^389-21. >It means picking 2^384-big, where big is sufficiently large to make >Ed448 approximately as fast, and make vectorized implementations slow. Sorry, I mis-wrote here. You are quite right that the draft proposes 2^384-317. That's what you get when your chairs are working late at night after long days doing their day jobs.... I'd be grateful if the folks from the MGN team could say more on the list why they chose this particular prime, and give some insight into the performance impact of choosing it over near neighbours such as 2^389-21. Others should chime in too - for example, people should feel free to repeat performance numbers from earlier in our discussions (they are out there in the archive somewhere!). Please let's collaborate and see if we can swiftly resolve whether there is a significant performance impact or not. > >> >> > >> >I have a further concern regarding the intentional omission of point >> >addition and scalar multiplication algorithms from the text of >> >draft-black-rpgecc-00. >> >> I expect this *was* intentional on the part of the authors, given my >> assumption that it was their intention to provide a clean document that >> focusses on curve generation rather than low level details of their >>usage >> in cryptographic primitives. But reading on further in your message, I >> think you mean to imply something more sinister here. >> >> > >> >Instead of providing such algorithms in the text of the draft, >> >draft-black-rpgecc-00 lists <https://eprint.iacr.org/2014/130.pdf>, >> >which contains several scalar multiplication algorithms for those >> >curves, as an informative reference (listed as [MSR] in the draft). >> >(I reviewed each of the draft's references (non-RFC references were >> >accessed on 2014-12-10); no other document listed as a reference >> >contains a point addition algorithm for Edwards curves, and no other >> >document that I was able to retrieve contains a scalar multiplication >> >algorithm for any type of elliptic curve.) >> >> Perhaps the draft's authors would consider adding further references to >> the extensive literature on ECC implementation, particular papers by Dan >> Bernstein, Tanja Lange, and their co-authors (who have done so much to >> spur the development of elliptic curve cryptography in its modern form). >> However, I don't believe that's really the point here - this draft is >> about specifying curves, not operations for those curves. > >And once again, the final product needs to be about providing working >algorithms. Several issues with original draft for Curve25519 in TLS >stemmed from the absence of a description of the Curve25519 function >except in a paper of Daniel J. Bernstein. A document that merely >contains curves, without the algorithms, does not satisfy the request. Agreed. > >Furthermore, we still need to determine what points are sent on what >model. Our job will not be done if we simply accept the Black et al. >draft. Agreed. No-one was saying this, as far as I recall. Certainly not me. (Please reread my messages carefully.) > >> >> However, I'd also point out - and I think this is key - that (based on >>my >> own reading of this patent, and heavily caveated by the usual >>disclaimers >> about none of us being lawyers) it's perfectly possible to implement the >> basic arithmetic procedures (point addition, scalar multiplication) and >> higher level algorithms (ECDH, signatures) for the curves produced by >>the >> MGN procedure (as for any other similar curves) without having to use >>any >> of the techniques that might be covered by this patent. After all, the >> curves it produces are Edwards form, or twisted Edwards form, so I would >> assume that the extensive code that is available under generous open >> source licences would be directly usable here. > >Much of that code assumes that the addition law is complete. On the >new curves in the recent draft, I believe this assumption is >satisfied. However, the original NUMS submission presented an >algorithm that infringed on the patent. While it would be possible to >avoid the patent, the cited reference and presentation made in April >suggested an algorithm that ran smack into the patent. The new draft >makes it substantially easier to avoid the patent, by permitting >complete addition laws. Well, that's good then, no? > ><snip> >> >> It's not about rewarding any one or any organisation with anything. > >Really? The entire argument for this "compromise" assumes that the >authors of the NUMS draft have something to offer in return for our >accepting a slower prime at the 384 bit level. They don't: I think the draft does have something to offer: a well-defined, repeatable process for generating curves that meet all the identified security criteria. The choice of prime then becomes a performance question (given the current state-of-the-art in our knowledge about the DLOG problem). But you are right to ask what the performance impact is of the particular choice of prime 2^384-317. Let's try to hash that out with solid numbers. >IETF >working groups (and I imagine IRTF working groups) regularly reach >conclusions in the face of vocal opposition, in most cases far more >valid than the objections of Benjamin Black to special primes. For >example, this working group has decided to proceed with a last call on >a PAKE that doesn't have a security proof. The TLS WG decided to >pursue ALPN over NPN, despite concerns about client fingerprinting vs. >server fingerprinting. I am certain there are more decisions of a >similar nature to be found. I don't think these are commendable >actions, but I do think that we should consider the relative merits of >2^384-big vs 2^389-21, regardless of the loudness of the supporters of >one side or the other, and should be aware of what the basis for >making a decision actually is. I agree. I was temporarily confused about which prime was in draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt. That was really unhelpful of me. > >Remember that we are effectively committed to recommending Curve25519. >Any argument about the superior "rigidity" of 2^384-big has to imagine >someone unwilling to accept 2^389-21 for exactly the same reasons they >accepted 2^255-19, namely the extremely limited number of primes of >this shape. I agree. (Wow, all this agreement suddenly breaking out!). Above, I've asked for a discussion on this very point, focussing on the relative performance of the options 2^389-21 and 2^384-317. Let's see if we can resolve this quickly. > >If the leadership is committed to compromise for the sake of >compromise, so be it. But logrolling is not the same as rough >consensus, and the IETF rules clearly and explicitly point this out. >Nothing has changed about the relative performance of 2^384-big vs >Ed448 since April. The choice of 2^389-21 vs. Ed448 is more difficult: >my instinct suggests the smaller, Let's get past instinct to hard numbers. >with Ed448 and E521 as options for >those who desire significantly more security. > >Sincerely, >Watson Ladd Likewise, Kenny > >> >> >> > >> > >> >Robert Ransom >> >> Regards, >> >> Kenny (on behalf of the chairs) >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Cfrg mailing list >>email@example.com >>http://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/cfrg
- [Cfrg] Consensus and a way forward Benjamin Black
- Re: [Cfrg] Consensus and a way forward Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] Consensus and a way forward Joppe Bos
- Re: [Cfrg] Consensus and a way forward Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] Consensus and a way forward Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Adam Langley
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Mike Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] Consensus and a way forward Paterson, Kenny
- Re: [Cfrg] Consensus and a way forward Paterson, Kenny
- Re: [Cfrg] Consensus and a way forward Paterson, Kenny
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Benjamin Black
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Michael Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Benjamin Black
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Robert Ransom
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Adam Langley
- Re: [Cfrg] Consensus and a way forward Lochter, Manfred
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Robert Ransom
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Benjamin Black
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Tony Arcieri
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Benjamin Black
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… D. J. Bernstein
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Robert Ransom
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Benjamin Black
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Paterson, Kenny
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Alyssa Rowan
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Benjamin Black
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Robert Ransom
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Paterson, Kenny
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Paterson, Kenny
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Harry Halpin
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Tanja Lange
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Tony Arcieri
- Re: [Cfrg] Mishandling twist attacks D. J. Bernstein
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Paterson, Kenny
- Re: [Cfrg] draft-black-rpgecc-00-.txt [was: Conse… Tanja Lange
- Re: [Cfrg] Mishandling twist attacks Paterson, Kenny
- Re: [Cfrg] Mishandling twist attacks D. J. Bernstein
- Re: [Cfrg] Mishandling twist attacks Salz, Rich
- Re: [Cfrg] Mishandling twist attacks Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Cfrg] Mishandling twist attacks Adam Back


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Ad Week 360 Q&A – How the Pitch Landscape Has Changed in 2020
The pitch management landscape has been radically altered due to the events of 2020. Advertising Week 360 recently spoke with David Strome, Client Development Director, US at MediaSense for his thoughts on navigating both the 'now' and the road ahead.02 November 2020
Key New Hires for MediaSense as it Expands Client and Business Operations Teams
Key New Hires for MediaSense - Aparna Potdar joins MediaSense as Head of Operations, Nicola Poynter joins as Head of Products and Julian Smith joins as Business Director.10 September 2020
MediaSense in the Press – Marketers 'looking to feel confident': the coronavirus causing irreversible changes to the advertiser-agency dynamic
MediaSense Managing Partner, Strategy, Ryan Kangisser shares his views with Digiday on how the pitch market is adjusting to current economic climate.20 August 2020
MediaSense Secures Funding from Innovate UK to Further Digital Media Measurement for Advertisers
MediaSense, secures funding from Innovate UK, the UK Government's innovation agency, to develop and build an integrated digital auditing platform to deliver cross media measurement for advertisers.06 July 2020
MediaSense in the Press – How are UK Retailers Preparing for the Festive Season?
MediaSense UK Client Director, Ian Anders shares his views on how the FMCG industry is preparing for the 'Golden Quarter' with The Grocer .17 June 2020
MediaSense in the Press – The Coronavirus Crisis is Marketing's Ultimate A/B Test
MediaSense Managing Partner, Strategy, Ryan Kangisser shares his views on zero-based budgeting during the Coronavirus Crisis.26 May 2020
MediaPost: Why It's Time To Partner With A Podcast, Not Launch One
MediaSense Digital Director, Theo Johnson contributes to the MediaPost blog, looking at recent spikes in podcast listener figures, how customised brand messages are proving successful and the agile opportunities for advertisers in current climate.18 May 2020
MediaSense in the Press – 'Companies are in freeze mode': Coronavirus crisis strains ad tech licensing model
A view from Ryan Kangisser, MediaSense Managing Partner on how non-essential software and ad tech fees will become impacted in the current climate.06 April 2020
Building a Better Ad Ecosystem: Transformation and Measurement Top of the Agenda
Resolving the industry's measurement issues is taking considerable time, but it's a critical and shared endeavour. MediaSense Co-founder and Director, Andy Pearch writes for New Digital Age outlining why building a better ad ecosystem needs transformation at its core.03 March 2020
The Marketing Society Podcast – in Conversation with Andrea Bernhardt and Emma Robertson
Marketing Society Editor, Michael Piggott, in conversation with MediaSense's Strategy Director, Andrea Bernhardt and Engine Transformation's CEO, Emma Robertson.03 March 2020


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Jennifer Parks
Jennifer is an 80-year old retired factory worker who lives alone in a ground floor flat.
Once indoors her rooms are on one level. Her daughter, Wilma, lives several miles away and has two school-age children. She works full time and as a result has limited time to assist her mother once discharged from hospital.
Jennifer was independent before being admitted to hospital on this occasion, however her daughter does suggest she can be a worrier in "new situations". Jennifer's main hobbies are bingo, walking her dog, and she is an active member of the local church.
Page last reviewed: 25 Feb 2020


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Police questioned a man on Tuesday who shot and killed a man he said was intruding into his home.
Eugenio C. Sardina, 44, told police he and his wife heard a noise at 11:45 p.m. Monday in the rear of their house.
He said he encountered a man who attacked him with a knife. He then fired a gun four times at the man, who collapsed and died, police said.


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Smith & Wood's Employment Law (Oxford 10th Edition) (2nd Hand Paperback)
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Known for its detailed and authoritative approach, the authors of Smith & Wood's Employment Law provide a comprehensive, yet accessible guide to employment law.
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The tenth edition features coverage of the most significant aspects of individual employment law including a revised chapter on discrimination law in light of the Single Equality Act and an analysis of the repealed statutory dismissal and disputes procedure.
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We are hosting a classroom competition
through September 30th.Welcome back to Freeman for the 2019-2020 school year! Thank you for supporting your Freeman PTSG (Parent Teacher Student Group)!
We are hosting a classroom competition. The class with the highest membership percentage will receive $100 for the teacher to use in the classroom along with a classroom ice cream party. To make sure your child's classroom gets credit, please use the link below to update your information.Remember to join Freeman's PTSG for an annual $30.00 (cash or check or online payment).Businesses can also buy memberships which include family members for a total cost of $60.00 per school year. Family memberships can be converted into business memberships for an extra $30.00. Businesses will be promoted during the school year.
What does the PTSG do? Where does your money go?
PTSG gives FES a large contribution to use towards school improvements.
(2018/2019 we funded water-bottle filtration filling stations throughout Elementary and Middle School).
We sponsor family-friendly events throughout the school year.
(Back to School night, Harvest Hoedown, Family Craft Night, Mother-son Glow night
Dance, Father-daughter dance, Family carnival, and more!)
We organize fundraisers for the school.
(Membership, events, apparel)
We provide scholarships to FHS seniors.
(2018/2019 we provided $2500 in scholarships to FHS seniors)
We provide meals for our amazing teachers during conference week.
(fall and spring)
We fund Artsmart program.
(This is an art program that brings enhanced art education to our Freeman students)
We fund Missoula Children's theater.
(This provides an opportunity for our students to participate in a theater production)
We support school groups who request financial donations.
We provide grants to teachers to use in their classrooms in Fall and Spring.
We provide back to school treats for elementary students.
We collaborate together to meet needs that may arise for parents, teachers, students, & staff to create the highest quality learning environment for our kiddos!Like us on Facebook
Thank you to our PTSG Business Sponsors for Supporting our kids and these fun events!
Ellingsen Paxton Orthodontics
Golden Gem Mercantile
Freeman Store
Smile Source DDS
Centennial Physical Therapy (Spokane Valley)
In Touch Physical Therapy (Post Falls, Id)
Dan Hoffman Insurance Agency
Millhorn Farms
D.S. Flaig
RB Studio
The Lavender Hare
Spokane Hardware
Design IT Solutions
Broadway Heights Dental
Pawlouse Vetrinary Therapy
Whole Body Medi Spa


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Perth Web Design Services
According to the latest small business statistics by Smallbusiness.wa.gov.au, Perth is home to 170,000 small businesses. And one of the easiest and most profitable ways to stand-out on the marketplace is by marketing your business using digital channels. But before you start at creating your first digital marketing campaign, take a look at how you present your business online.
Your website is the central hub and heart of all your digital marketing campaigns and strategies. Whether you are running an SEO campaign, Social Media Campaigns, and other digital marketing strategies, everything leads back to your website. Your website must be designed to convert all those traffic to generate the highest possible return on your investment.
At Shoutout Digital, Our websites are designed with one thing in mind. To convert as many visitors on your website as paying customers.
Learn more about why a conversion-optimised website can take your Perth business to a new level.


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Osagie Otabor, Benin
Edo State Governor, Mr. Godwin Obaseki, has said that the reforms he introduced to revenue collection has led to over 500 percent increase in the Internally Generated Revenue of the 18 local councils.
Obaseki said the total revenue generated by the 18 local councils before he came to office was N31.1m monthly.
Obaseki said the total monthly collections by the 18 local councils as at October 2019 were N205m.
The governor spoke at the 2019 Alaghodaro summit to mark his three years anniversary in office.
READ ALSO: Obaseki felicitates with Muslims on Eid-el-Maulud
Obaseki urged various investors to continue with their various investment programs because there is high chances of continuity of his reforms in 2020.
He said he has constructed over 150 roads across the state, built and equipped 20 primary health care centres out of the 200 proposed health centres to be renovated.
Details later…..


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Ankit PatelClient Success Manager
As a Client Success Manager at Relevant CRM, Ankit Patel helps customers with customization requests, solution implementations and CRM problem solving. His extensive IT background and experience working with enterprise level organizations makes Ankit an asset to Relevant CRM's clients.
Ankit's previous experience includes over 16 years in the IT industry as a Software Engineer, Programmer and IT Consultant. He also has five years of Dynamics CRM experience including consulting for industries ranging from real estate to professional services industries. Ankit received his Bachelor of Business Administration and Master of Information Technology from Kennesaw State University. Ankit also has received Microsoft certifications in Dynamics 365 for Sales and Dynamics 365 Sales Functional Consulting.
In his free time, Ankit enjoys spending time with his family and friends, working out at the gym and attending Toastmasters.


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Combin Stripe Knit Maroon
Far Afield's extremely versatile jumpers return to Vestis for AW20. These are a beautiful maroon color with closely spaced white stripes and a mock neck that frames the face perfectly. Maroon on the sleeves and hem and top of the garment. Trim fit. Model is 5'8" and 150 lbs and wears size 2.
- 80% lambswool and 20% poly mix
- Ribbed mock neck, cuffs, and hem
- Made sweatshop-free in Turkey


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We have partnered with excellent homebuilders for years to allow buyers to close on their new build with more ease and confidence than ever before. It's called our Homebuilder Alliance Program and it's growing bigger and better, week after week, month after month! When you go to see the model homes of our partners, they […]Continue Reading
OfferPad Blog
Top 5 Things You Skip When Selling Your Home to Offerpad
At Offerpad, we work each day to enhance the real estate processes for everyone! That's our mission – to provide the best way to buy and sell a home. There are countless ways that our direct home sale solution makes your home selling easier, more convenient, and more certain, depending on your goals as a […]Continue Reading
Real Estate Agents!!! Offerpad is Now Offering the Highest Referral Fee at 3%
To show our continued support to the agent community and to be a solution center for all, we've increased our REFERRAL FEE TO 3%* for agents representing sellers who close with Offerpad! From Offerpad CEO and Founder, Brian Bair "I am proud to announce that Offerpad will now provide the highest referral fee in the […]Continue Reading
What is an Offerpad Solutions Advisor?
Here at Offerpad, the position as a Solutions Advisor is all about one thing – helping the customer find the best option for their real estate needs. Who are Offerpad Solutions Advisors? The Solutions Advisor is the first Offerpad person our customers and prospective customers come in contact with after they request an offer for […]Continue Reading


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Our one of a kind drone was built to be more than just your average remote control toy! Enjoy endless hours of fun by using the three different play modes. Flight Mode, Ground Mode, and Water Mode.
Beginner Friendly – Programmed with 3 levels of flight speed that the user can set. We suggest starting off on the beginner setting and making a transition over to the advanced level.
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– 6-axis gyro for stable and easy flying
Package Includes:
1 x Quadcopter
1 x Bottom Base
1 x Remote Control
1 x 3.7V 350mah Battery (Quantity can be selected)
1 x USB Charger
4 x Spare Propellers
1 x DIY Sticker
1 x Screwdriver
1 x User Manual


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"Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there sall not be room enough to receive it." Malachi 3:1 KJV
"But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully."
"Every man according: as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver." 2 Corinthians 9:6-7 KJV
Your financial contributions will help spread Christ's message of hope and healing to so many people and places; around the corner and around the world. Your gift can be submitted safely and securely here.
Click button and enter the amount to donate.
Tithe/Offering by Mail
If you would like to mail your tithe/offering or donation, please use the following address:
True Victory Ministries
2514 Build America Drive, Hampton, VA 23666


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All prices include shipping, and arrive with fun mystery gift.
http://www.paypal.me/johnnyyoungcountry for payment and provide shipping address at checkout or via email email@example.com
*A portion of all sales go to Shriners Children Hospitals http://www.shrinershospitalforchildren.org Thank you!
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Spaghetti Squash Heirloom Winter Squash Seeds Non-GMO
Save Liquid error (product-badge line 32): -Infinity%
Spaghetti Squash Heirloom Winter Squash Seeds
This unique squash is also called "Vegetable Spaghetti". Delicious, tender flesh in oblong yellow fruits! The cooked flesh separates into spaghetti-like strands with a mild flavor. Vining plants produce 12', oblong fruits, best harvested at about 8 to 10 inches long, the fruit contains masses of tasty strings that can be served like spaghetti for a nutritious, low-calorie treat, that store well for fall and winter. Enjoy steamed, boiled, and baked. 80 Days
2.5 gr / 20+ Seeds


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Stunt Copter
Stunt Copter 1.1 for Mac can be downloaded from our software library for free. This free Mac application was originally designed by Antell Software. The file size of the latest installer available for download is 460 KB. Our antivirus check shows that this Mac download is safe. The software lies within Games, more precisely Arcade. The most popular version of the tool is 1.1. Commonly, this program's installer has the following filename: stuntcopter.zip.
From the developer:
Stunt Copter is an old Macintosh game made by Duane Blehm, in 1987. Duane passed away a few years ago. But we've converted Stunt Copter to MacOSX, so this generation of mac-gamers can have the chance to try out this old classic, and veteran gamers can have a nostalgia trip back to the days ;)
You may want to check out more Mac applications, such as Copter Apocalypse, Copter or Monster Truck Stunt Madness, which might be similar to Stunt Copter.
Please add a comment explaining the reasoning behind your vote.
Icons & cursors
Document management
Project Management


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- : http://sallybend.com
When Angels Fly
- : Yes
- : Mary L. Schmidt writes under the pen name of S. Jackson, and she is a retired registered nurse, who won the coveted Leora B. Stroup Bachelor of Science in Nursing Award for outstanding clinical performance, community involvement and academic achievement in Nursing Award, while at Fort Hays State University. She is a member of the Catholic Church, and has taught kindergarten Catechism; she has worked in various capacities for The American Cancer Society, March of Dimes, Cub and Boy Scouts, (son, Gene, is an Eagle Scout), and sponsored trips for high school children music. She loves all forms of art but mostly focuses on the visual arts; amateur photography, traditional, and graphic art as her disabilities allow. Her husband, Michael Schmidt aka A. Raymond, rounds out this co-author duo.
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Both love spending time together and visiting their grandchildren. Schmidt is a Member of the Society of Children's Book Writers and Illustrators: The international professional organization for writers and illustrators of children's literature, and Sigma Theta Tau International: The Honor Society of Nursing, which is the second-largest nursing organization in the world with approximately 135,000 active members.
- : https://whenangelsfly.net
- : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC549RC6yxc3Xm_wzVH-_GMg
- : https://www.amazon.com/When-Angels-Fly-S-Jackson-ebook/dp/B07BFJPL1R/ref=sr_1_7_twi_kin_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1521837829&sr=8-7&keywords=when+angels+fly


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Please click here for a link to the forms you will need to request the Mail-in Ballot Option for the upcoming Municipal Election. Please return to the District Office and we will send you a kit.
9/6/2020 02:21:31 am
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Leave a Reply.
November 2020


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Vineyard: Waiting For The First Grapes
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Patricia Goddard Marlar (Age 95) Entered into her new life on November 7, 2020. Cherished Mother, Grandmother, Sister, Aunt and Friend. Born September 22, 1925, in New York City to the late Evelyn Brister Goddard and Samuel Dalton Goddard. Preceded in death by beloved husband, Harry; son Daniel, and sisters, Sybil Blood and Irene McMahon.
She is survived by son, John Marlar; daughter, Winifred Linscott (Warren); grandchildren, Elizabeth Konrad, Kevin Marlar (Lora), Thomas Marlar, Michael Rogers (Lindsey), Logan Marlar (Danielle), Michelle Lockey (Chris), Shannon Hammons (Matt), Warren Linscott, Jr. (Nikki); her sister, Winifred Goddard, SC, brother, Dennis Goddard (Joann); 16 great-grandchildren; and many nieces and nephews and friends.
A Mass of Christian Burial will be held at 1:00 p.m. on November 13, 2020 at Resurrection Catholic Church in Moneta, VA; the church she founded and where she served for many years as Pastoral Coordinator, with Monsignor Joseph Lehman presiding. Friends will be received beginning at 12:00 Noon. Masks are requested and social distancing will be in effect.
In lieu of flowers, please consider a donation to Paralyzed Veterans of America (www.pva.org) or Lake Christian Ministries (www.lakechristianministries.org).
Arrangements by Burch-Messier Funeral Home, Bedford, VA (540) 586-7360.


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Better yoga teachers are gentler in their approach and you will know straight away what their mindset is by speaking to them. The milder variety may push you equally as hard, but they do so in a way which allows you embrace who you are rather than trying to make you feel that you have used up every ounce of energy before you reach the sun salute. I really like that exercise because it embracing.


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Renegade Maverick RS 24v 4 x 4 Electric Ride On Car UTV Jeep Kids Children
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Trades Call For Changes To Corporate Prepayment Plan
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WASHINGTON-CUNA, NAFCU and NASCUS have all filed comment letters with NCUA on its proposed voluntary corporate stabilization prepayment program, and all three groups have found different components of the proposal they would like to see changed.
Under the proposed program, credit unions must commit at least $10,000 but are capped to a maximum of 36 basis points of their total insured shares as of March 31, 2011. NCUA has said it will not proceed with the plan unless at least $300 million in aggregate funds are committed by credit unions.
Moreover, the agency has stated that if it receives $500 million in prepayments, the 2011 Stabilization Fund assessments could be 20 basis points, down from the projected 25 BPs, and the 2012 and 2013 assessments could be 13 BPs each year, declining to 10 BPs from 2014-18 and then to four BPs by 2021. All of those figures would be revised downward should it receive even more than $500 million pledged funds.
In its comment letter, CUNA suggested the amount that credit unions would be required to pay in corporate assessments could drop if a series of recommendations it is making are adopted by NCUA. In particular, said CUNA, its recommendations, if adopted, would allow credit unions to count on several of what it called "key features":
• Sufficient Participation ($1 billion). Actual funding of a prepayment commitment would not be required unless there was sufficient participation from other credit unions to lower 2011 and 2012 assessments from 25 BPs and 13 BPs, respectively to 12BPs or 13 BPs in each of the two years, CUNA said.
• Return of Funds. Participating credit unions could expect a small return on the prepaid funds, either in the form of interest or credits against future assessments.
• Cover 2011 Assessment. Given sufficient participation by credit unions (more than half), a portion of the prepayment might be used to cover 2011's assessment (capping prepayments at $1.5 billion), CUNA wrote.
• Wider participation. CUNA has proposed that all federally insured credit unions be eligible to participate, regardless of size.
• Better understanding. "All credit unions would have a better understanding of the agency's management of the legacy assets that were held by some of the corporate credit unions as well as the prepaid assessment program," CUNA stated.
In its comment letter, CUNA further stated that the components of its proposal would address three key concerns about the agency's proposed plan:
By lessening the negative effects of the "free rider" problem (although not eliminating it).
• By helping level the early-year assessments-but not building an additional liquidity buffer for the Stabilization Fund (which NCUA proposed, but CUNA opposes).
• By allowing small credit unions to take advantage of the savings.
CUNA called on NCUA to provide direct reports to credit unions and their trade groups on a monthly basis about all material aspects of the Temporary Corporate Credit Union Stabilization Fund (TCCUSF), including regular updates on the performance of the legacy assets.
'Critical Information Needed'
Meanwhile, in its comment letter, NAFCU said the question of whether to participate in the voluntary prepayment program should be left to individual credit unions, and like CUNA, said it believes it is "critical that credit unions are provided with every bit of information available on the proposed program so that they can make their own independent judgment on whether to participate in the program."
NAFCU further called on NCUA to provide analysis of possible accounting issues, the impact of participation on a credit union's regulatory capital requirements, as well as other issues that a credit union should consider both during and after it determines whether to make the prepayment.
NAFCU wrote in its letter that while it believes that while the proposed $10,000 minimum requirement is reasonable, the agency should not impose a maximum participation amount. "Unlike the minimum requirement, which we recognize as necessary to, at the very least, justify the transaction and other costs associated with the prepayment program as well as to make the program's potential benefits worthwhile for credit unions, the maximum threshold is not necessary and potentially undesirable in some cases," NAFCU said.
NAFCU noted that NCUA has stated it does not plan to publicize a list of participating credit unions, but would add a line item on credit unions' 5300 call reports to indicate an amount pre-paid pursuant to the proposed program.
"Presumably, a credit union that chooses to not participate would enter a "0" for that line item," wrote NAFCU. "The agency should not add a line item in the 5300 call report that indicates the amount in corporate stabilization assessments a credit union has prepaid. Whether a credit union chooses to participate in the program should be based on many considerations, not the least of which is its financial condition. It should not in any way, however, be influenced by the fact that its decision would be available for the public to see."
View From State Regulators
Meanwhile, the National Association of State Credit Union Supervisors (NASCUS) has stressed in its comment letter that a credit union's decision to participate must be thought through.
"If NCUA proceeds with a prepaid assessment program, state regulators will work to ensure participation of state-chartered credit unions is prudent in light of the credit unions' condition," NASCUS wrote. "The addition of safety and soundness thresholds would mitigate the risk of imprudent credit union participation."