text:
NEW YORK (CBSNewYork/AP) — A McDonald's cashier jailed for beating two irate customers with a metal rod (click here for video) says he was only trying to defend himself.
Rayon McIntosh was arrested Oct. 13 after a wild fight inside a McDonald's in the Greenwich Village neighborhood in Manhattan.
Video recorded by a customer showed two furious women vaulting a counter to attack McIntosh after some sort of dispute.
McIntosh grabbed a metal bar and fought back with savage force, continuing to deliver crushing blows even after the women were incapacitated on the floor.
McIntosh tells the New York Daily News in a jailhouse interview published Saturday that he acted to protect himself.
He says the women came in angry, and he was just trying to keep things calm when they "attacked for no reason."
One of the women has a fractured skull.
McIntosh, 31, was arrested and charged with two counts of felony assault and criminal possession of a weapon while the two women were charged with menacing, disorderly conduct and trespassing.
Please offer your thoughts in the comments section below.
(TM and Copyright 2011 CBS Radio Inc. and its relevant subsidiaries. CBS RADIO and EYE Logo TM and Copyright 2011 CBS Broadcasting Inc. Used under license. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report.)
The fact that the police arrested the cashier is a travesty. Anyone viewing the video evidence can see he was only defending himself.
posted by free`
The comments here, like" you can't kill someone for attacking you, he should have known they were not armed, etc" are the VERY REASON that NY, NJ, PA, CA and other BLUE states suck and are rife with crime. In some states, he would have shot the perps in the head and not be arrested.
These states don't have the crime level that the BLUE states do. Why, because the crimminals expect to meet deadly force, therefore don't do the crime. I think the b**ches got what they deserved.
Pretty true. I would have gotten congratulated down here, and I probably would have done more than break an arm or crack a skull. I work in a bad neighborhood. I've watched people try to kill each around here. Crazy people come in where I work every day. Many times they're on drugs or so drunk they're on autopilot. I never signed anything saying I relinquish my basic human right to protect myself. If you come behind my counter you're getting clocked in the head, straight up.
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.helpfreerayonmcintosh.org%2F&h=7AQEpN3Z5 here is rayons web site
If I were a juror, I would acquit him on the grounds of self-defense.
I agree. When you slap someone and then climb over the counter to get closer to them, the employee has every right to defend himself. He didnt know if they had a gun…knife….whatever. I'd aquit him in a NY MINUTE!!
Self defense stops when the attackers are no longer a threat. If you continue to assault them it is no longer self defense and you can be charged and convicted. Most likely you will be convicted.
looked like they was resisting a citizens arrest! by trying to get back up
stop resisting *whack
stop resisting *whack
THe trouble is any attacker could have a gun, which means they're not "incapacitated" until they're unconcious or dead. And there were two attackers in this case. This guy did the right thing, the video demonstrates that he did the right thing. It's outrageous that he was charged with anything. The women who attacked him are the ones who should be going to prison.
Anyone "COULD" have a gun, however until you see a gun or a knife, a person is only presenting an "assaultive" level of force, you can fight them until they submit, but if you keep hitting them, it becomes assault with a deadly weapon, even if you are a cop. Let alone a McDonald's Cashier.
Which means until YOU know more than the people who were there, YOU keep your trap shut, Greg.
In this case, they didn't have guns or knives, or they'd have been arrested for possession of a deadly weapon as well. You can't just beat someone about the head because they threatened you with their fists.
but Greg,
they DID do more than 'threaten with fists: they actually used them!
Beyond that, jumping a counter to attack someone you already laid hands on surely must count for something in the way of determining what is a proportionate response.
Furthermore, they backed him into a place where they then had access to any number of weapons, including knives. Had he not gone on the offensive, there is no telling what manner of horror those women would have inflicted.
If they had known he was a felon they wouldnt have tried to chump him. The got what they deserved. I bet they won't mess with anybody else ever.
I know a guy who killed someone by beating them with a bat. And got off with Self Defense. He was attached by more than one person. He did the right thing!
BS.. they came over the counter at him, how the H*LL was he to know whether they were armed or not.. cut the guy some slack here folk, he was attacked and he retaliated.
Wrong, everything proceeded from the girls attack and no one could reasonable be expecred to remain rational under life threatening attack. If they did not attack the conclusion would nnot have occurred. Police can be expected to exercise restarainst because they are trained.
In Oregon a swat team fired 70 rounds at a man whose house they forced entry they hit him twenty times because he had a golf club to protect his home. Result, police justified.
Cops are HIRED by us to perform citizen arrests. There is no difference. Stop thinking like a slave- This guy was attacked and defended himself. As a juror, you have the obligation and duty to free this man if for no other reason than to PREVENT rogue prosecutions. Remember, we live in a constitutional republic, not a simple democracy. In the latter you have just one vote– at erection time– in the former, you have three– Think!!!!! Who attacked whom? End of line–
PS. Stop wasting my tax dollars on silliness–
Greg, as a Marine, I am trained to use deadly force with my hands. Does this mean you can tell which bone I am going to break on your body? Or what pressure point I am going to hit to incapacitate you? Or how about whether I use the 17 pounds of pressure it takes to break your neck and leave you paralyzed? if they were coming at me, it would have been FAR worse then a simple cut, or a fractured skull. Preservation of life and prevention of rape constitute the use of deadly force.
Wow IGNANT….. yea I said IGNANT, and thats what ARE YOU. If you wait to see a gun then its too late you fool. Secondly really "it becomes assault with a deadly weapon, even if your a cop" Check US history Rodney King…… No charge to the cops. I guess because they were women we should fell sorry for them. NA THEY GOT WHAT WAS COMING TO THEM. If it was a woman behind the counter and 2 men attached her McDonald's would be paying her bail money.
That's all good in theory, and there is ample case law, penal statutes and treatises on what constitutes "a threat," what is considered "imminent harm" or "excessive" force, etc. However, the problem is that these theories are offered from the comfort of one's study, living room, or other safe place. This is why the "objective" standard of self-defense is so flawed. We can all sit here, at our computers, and say that he should have "hit them in the leg," or "found a means to flee," or "should have taken one swing at them," etc, etc, because *we* were not behind that counter with two angry people, shouting and hitting us and coming towards us. He was probably terrified, with adrenaline flowing through him and reacting to save his life. From the video, you can see that there was little or no time for him to ponder what to do.
Secondly, he did not "continue to assault them," — it's not like he went out for a smoke, came back, and struck them again. It's all one fluid movement — all one defensive move. That's why I hate it when people say, 'well, here's where he was no longer under threat,' or, "why didn't he grab a less potent item to defend himself?" You can't know how you would respond until you are in that situation, and you can't try to draw upon some loosely analagous scenario (like, oh, when I was 10 years old I was attacked in a snowball fight, and I didn't react that way). That's not the same thing.
I agree with the majority of comments. This poor guy was probably trying to get his life on track, working at McDonalds, and these two violent persons put him in a situation. They had no regard for his safety, they were clearly acting insanely (who jumps over a counter and starts slapping people?) And he had every reason to fear what the could have done to him.
Self -defense? Most certainly. Reasonable response to a threat? I believe so.
I hear you, but it seems like the extent of their ability to continue to be a threat might be hard to determine in some cases. If I had been in his shoes, I definitely would have continued causing them harm until I was absolutely sure they were no longer a threat.
I may be biased in all fairness, because I would've been armed with a pistol and appropriate training, and they both would've been dead a few seconds after they climbed over my shop counter. It would have been a lot more like "No Quarter" than Bron-Yr-Aur Stomp.
And you'd be in prison for murder, you cannot simply shoot people because they climbed over a counter, bare hands do not constitute an immediate deadly force threat.
Greg they deserved that ass whooping and I don't care if they are women they were acting like animals and he defended himself. This guy has terrible luck. People are so CRAZY!
Deserve has nothing to do with it, there is legal, and not legal, that is how a Republic functions, that is what differentiates us from a Democracy, the people do not choose if this is okay or not, the law defines what is or is not acceptable and then a Jury will decide if the actions were within what is defined as acceptable. At which point the law has specific proscribed punishments.
No part of what happened here was acceptable, had he attacked them and dropped them, then called the police, it would have been fine, but you cannot simply beat a person on the ground because they are trying to get up.
Or would everyone here state that the LAPD officers who fought Rodney King were justified? He was trying to get up after receiving a beating, and 7 good taser hits, having been hit with the taser to receive my certification in that weapons system, I can assure you, someone who isn't on PCP doesn't try to get up after 7, he may not even be able to speak for a few minutes.
The standard exists and is set for a reason, because without it, we are a mob. Just because people are crazy doesn't give anyone the right to beat them like an animal.
You are an idiot if you cant see that he beat them only as long as they resisted. I would agree with you if they were running away and he chased them and continued to beat them but that clearly was not the case here. He did not use deadly force either…are they dead? NO!!! he beat them till they stopped being a threat to himself and others. You keep saying he "continued to beat them on the ground" Well yeah duhh one of them tried to get up and for all anyone knows would have continued to try to assault him….
The legal definition of deadly force is force that CAN kill not necessarily force that does kill.
There were a number of other people who showed up to help him deal with the threat at the end and instead of simply holding them and waiting for the lawful authorities to arrive, he continued to beat them.
There is a point where this crosses the line.
That being said his lack of formal training may get him off if he gets a good lawyer, but more likely there will be a plea deal that sends him back to prison and after that, his life is pretty much over anyway.
Absolutely it does.
Don't know about New York, Greg, but the standard in PA for using lethal force in the defense of oneself or another is when the victim "believes such force is necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping, or sexual intercourse compelled by force or threat." [PA Criminal Code 505(b)(2)
I agree it might be hard for a fit man to make that case against two women armed with just their fists, but as we saw in the video, potential weapons are everywhere, and the balance of power can shift swiftly.
In my opinion, he should have carried (and used) pepper spray. Disabling in the short run, no effects long term.
For the cashier, given his legal situation, his use of pepper spray would would been a felony.
The New York State Self-Defense Spray Law – Penal Law 265.20
Requires special labeling and control of sales. In order to purchase this product the law states:
• You must be over the age of 18.
• You must have no history of felony convictions or assaults.
• Product must be purchased from an authorized dealer, pharmacy or gun dealer.
• You must complete a form with your name, address, birth date and signature.
We could only hope that Saint Gregory would be put in this same situation and see how constrained hi his.Apparently he never saw the movie Deliverance and the idiotic Drew character.
Actually, you can.
The threat assessment includes "grievous bodily injury", not just death.
As a former paramedic and firefighter, I can attest to what kind of damage "bare hands" can inflict. And have you ever seen what kind of damage a kick can inflict on someone who has been knocked to the ground.
It must be nice, Greg, to live in a place where goblins like these two females don't assault you for merely doing your job.
But, here in the real world, I would have introduced these to to the ugly end of my "uncle" Sam Colt.
@ Dark Space — I take your point, but to be fair, if you were in Mr. McIntosh's place that day, what are the chances you would have been able to get a permit to carry legally? I'm thinking zero. We are talking about New York City, after all.
Further, I have a feeling that the same system under which Mr. McIntosh was arrested for defending himself with non-lethal force would have charged you with second degree murder. It's not right, it's just what happens in these left-wing paradises.
Why is it that people who've never been in combat are the only ones who have the ability, when sitting in their "Monday-morning-quarterback-chairs," to decide when the threat to someone else had passed to the point that he/she should have stood down? I suggest you try doing it some time. Just for fun, when you're being shot at and are firing back, tell me how many bullets you had left in the magazine when you quit trying to break the trigger.
Oops… hit send too soon.
None is the "standard test result".
In a "Stress fire situation" even trained personnel, like police officers, will *seriously* underestimate the number of rounds fired. In some cases, they will continue to pull the trigger even after the slide is locked back on an empty magazine.
When someone is trying to kill you, there is no such thing as excessive force.
I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Nuff said.
unless you're a cop or some other govt employee with a gun. then you get off scott free.
..and no longer a threat…what if you guess wrong?
It's sad that a lot of viewers find this laughable, both parties were wrong. But he went overboard. I saw the video and I was disturbed. He needs to be behind bars and so do the two females involved until they learn self-control.
YOU lack common sense and are motivated by some false sense of moral superiority that is only applicable in a utopian society that does not and will not exist with man's current state. Besides, a utopian society would not have flagrant transgressions that would require such disciplinary action.
Throwing both behind bars is called exercising poor judgement especially on the grounds that you're sighting: for lack of "self-control". That's what morally lazy people do. Pronouncing proper judgement and assigning just "atonement" per party requires work, heart and wisdom. Your statement reflects that you're lacking in all thr33 areas. I think your joints need oiling. So go pick up your axe and see if you can catch up with Dorothy, Toto and the rest of the gang.
That's why you should shoot them dead right away. The "assault" is not "continued".
You are right legally, of course
That's all good in theory, and there is ample case law, penal statutes and treatises on what constitutes "a threat," what is considered "imminent harm" or "excessive" force, etc. However, the problem is that these theories are offered from the comfort of one's study, living room, or other safe place. This is why the "objective" standard of self-defense is so flawed. We can all sit here, at our computers, and say that he should have "hit them in the leg," or "found a means to flee," or "should have taken one swing at them," etc, etc, because *we* were not behind that counter with two angry people, shouting and hitting us and coming towards us. He was probably terrified, with adrenaline flowing through him and reacting to save his life. From the video, you can see that there was little or no time for him to ponder what to do.
Secondly, he did not "continue to assault them," — it's not like he went out for a smoke, came back, and struck them again. It's all one fluid movement — all one defensive move. That's why I hate it when people say, 'well, here's where he was no longer under threat,' or, "why didn't he grab a less potent item to defend himself?" You can't know how you would respond until you are in that situation, and you can't try to draw upon some loosely analogous scenario (like, oh, when I was 10 years old I was attacked in a snowball fight, and I didn't react that way). That's not the same thing.
I agree with the majority of comments. This poor guy was probably trying to get his life on track, working at McDonalds, and these two violent persons put him in a situation. They had no regard for his safety, they were clearly acting insanely (who jumps over a counter and starts slapping people?) And he had every reason to fear what the could have done to him.
Self -defense? Most certainly. Reasonable response to a threat? I believe so.
Me, too. Our society needed him to whip their filthy asses and get peoples' minds right again. You can't walk into a business and attack the workers, or you just might get your ass kicked really bad.
He retreated in the video. This is a clear self defense argument.
What this signifies is that the law does not allow for you to defend yourself when 2 big black bitches come at you to beat you up. He should be giving a medal, a job as McDonalds security gaurd and the key to the city.
These two "women" got exactly what they deserved. I hope this man is released.
Could not agree more. These 2 women were animals – no different than rabid dogs and deserved everything they got and then some. Nothing more than self defense – the man was protecting himself.
Personally, I would have dumped the boiling french fry grease on them for good measure.
Got a couple of things going on here, the ho's were black! And this was done in a place of busness (McDonalds has deep pockets) The Perp was a Black man who has a record of killing bitches! How will McDonalds defend this guy in court? They cant, so the bitches get paid!
McD gave a man with a record a chance. Alcolades to them. However, by law thet must provide a safe work envionment. They did not do that. He is the one that will collect.
While he may have gone a little overboard, the women deserved what they got. There have been far too many people (especially black women) who seem to have no restraint in their public actions. They act like they can go all animal for any offense. Where is their sense of decency? Either we have order in society or we have chaos.
The sad thing is, is that a Judge in Manhattan will do everything he can to put that guy away. Here in Houston, Acquittal if it even makes it to trial.
That is exactly HOW you establish order in society. If people expected that kind of rebuttal how many times do you think it would happen?
True, and I don't see how, when someone is attacked, he or she is expected have some perfect hindsight on exactly when to stop hitting back. Good judgment is to ensure the attackers do not get up again. He did that without killing them, which seems quite appropriate, if not restrained, to me. I don't think he ever should have been arrested in the first place.
There was almost perfect synergy amongst these three individuals. The females won't be assaulting anyone else anytime soon and the loose cannon with the rebar will be going to a place that insures the safety of society during his stay. Poetic or sad, it is what it is.
If you ever are attacked, will you have the courage to stand for what you obviously believe, and just take your beating? Will you be brave enough to crumple into a ball and let the savage animals do whatever they will?
What is sad, is your level of stupidity James. This so called "loose cannon" should be thought of as a hero. When criminal thugs (black, white, latino, etc) perform these types of acts, they need to be dealt with. And the best way to deal with thugs/bullies, is to give them a taste of their own medicine.
If this guy was a member of your family, would you still feel the same way, or are you a hypocrite?
Depends, if they aer taught they will have the police on their side and the courts they will feel able to go after anyone.
I agree the guy acted in self defense and it is laughable they are charging him. Would they have preferred if he had not resisted and died?
James, he should be made the manager, given a raise, and appear in McDonald's commercials nationwide.. Da-da,da,da,da.. I'd be lovin it. to see these nasty creatures meet with rebar everytime they act like that.
The female customers did not get what they ordered, bu they got what they deserved.
They both got a Happy Meal…as far as i'm concerned. 🙂
They had it their way…
They got a McBeating
MacAttack 100%
I'm lovin' it!
They deserved a break that day!
Oh, man…what a perfect thread. You guys are killin' it…
Ba da ba ba ba..I'm lovin' it……
It's a Good Time for the Great Taste of McDonald's
The woman deserve the beating. Next time they and others will think twice before attacking someone for no reason.–SELF DEFENSE–two against one– no pity
These two girls need a community organizer to settle this.
He should ask for a jury trial.
Violence against women is always wrong. Violence against men is funny. The guy will fry, The women will walk as heroic victims.
Wrong. When the cashier retreated, the women crossed into the back where other staff, the food, and victim here present. He had no choice but to put them down for the safety of everyone else in the shop. He will walk. There is no question.
Imagine had he scooped up a batch right out of the deep fryer and launched them buckshot style, hot grease and all at these two thugs.
His defense?
"They got fries with that."
The two black women were wrong to attack the man and he was wrong to use a steel rod on them. This only shows that it's wise not to stick your nose in where it is not wanted or to start something you may not be able to finish
Well if it were Florida and that was his yard they came into he could have shot them dead and walked.
Thats a big part of me liking living in Florida, those two females would have been shot and good ridance to them.
Was it necessary to point out they were black? It doesn't matter what color they were they were wrong! People show their true colors behind a keyboard! LMAO
Hell yeah it's important they were black. Whens the last time you seen an Asian or White chick try to pull some BS like that? it seems like 99.999% of the time when a lady loses it in public and decides to go all prison rules it's a black chick. Was it important that the mob at the WI state fair was a group of blacks singling out white folks to beat on? I guess not in your little mind. It's even more relevent in this case because the McD's cashier VICTIM WAS BLACK. It wasn't racially motivated, they just thought they could come up in there and own the place. You're right, people really do show their true colors behind a keyboard you reverse racist, politically-correct, touchy-feely, upside-down morally bloated freak-show. Why did you even bother to comment? I never comment, but you, sir, have prompted me to do so… "LMAO"? You make me sick!!!!! Go fart in an empty champagne flute and sniff it you uppity condescending jerk.
Also, since I'm here I'd like to say that I'd hire McIntosh to work for me. You come behind the counter all bets are off he did the right thing and should be awarded.
I'm not sure what Nigeria has to do with this discussion. and I don't understand what exactly you don't like about my comment… Nothing you said clashes with my point of view… … fool.
He was wrong to use a steel rod….he should have use 45 ACP hollow points and bagged the two fat slobs
Bight your tongue.
uze yo breine…or a spell-checker
Naw, Nick just wants someone "Tongue-tied".
It's far better to be judged by twelve than to be carried by six.
"Hell is other people."
– Jean-Paul Sartre
You MUST assume that anyone CRAZY enough to jump a counter and come after you is ARMED and able to kill you. His reaction was to defend himself UNTIL he no longer felt threatened. GONE are the days of the helpless damsel. Girls in Gangs will cap you just as fast as boys. Self Defense, open and shut!
I wrote to McDonalds.com informing them that i saw self defense, and that I eat a lot of fast food – mostly McDonald's. Since they didn't support their employee, I haven't given McDonald's anymore of my money.
Exactly – between the dude/girl in Baltimore that got whopped into an epileptic fit earlier this year, and then this incident, my family of 5 and I are done with MACDaddy-Donalds. Good riddance.
The two women started it, used violence, and jumped the counter. Self defence.
All I am going to say is know who you messing with before you mess with somebody!!! This guy had just spent 9 years in prison for killing a classmate.They got what they were looking for. Self-Defense.
Anybody old enough to remember if this is what went on in the old days that created segregation? I am not old enough but my dad said this is what caused it long ago.
Your dad is an idiot. And it was idiots like your dad that led to segregation
My daddy says you are a poo poo head savage.
Segregation was not started because of an act that occured. Segregation was just the way it was since the Africans were brought as slaves. Due to Plessy v Ferguson in 1896, it was legalized in the US "separate but equal". Not because of something "like this" in the old days. I don't think your dad was around when segregation began. Sorry.
In reality, after slavery was abolished, segregation was not the status quo. This is what people assume, but it, like most assumptions, is incorrect. The first at-large elected US Representative that was black, was elected in 1870. Segregation and literal disenfranchisement came on stronger in the 1890s and early 1900s. It was fostered and stoked by a very few, very powerful people. The mass public was (and still is) a bunch of idiotic followers. Racism, like most political tools, is used to cause people to behave in a way that is beneficial to a very few people. Now those people who are talked into believing that they are "kept down" by the black man, or by the white man, they may really be convinced, in their heart-of-hearts, but that is just to the benefit of the people who make money off of their unnatural hatred of one another. Millions of poor people fighting one another, blaming one another… they don't look to the cause of their poverty. We could all get rich, if the government would move out of the way. But too few people see that, and it is to the benefit of the few very very wealthy- they are not interested in just riches… they want to be the FEW with power and money. That's part of the kick for them, the pain of others is their joy.
Then explain the "mammy" that lived in the house with the family in the BIG HOUSE
The vast majority of slaveowners only had less than 5 slaves, and those didn't have the means to provide separate quarters for their slaves and lived and ate with the same house together and worked in the field together. 20% of the antebellum population of New Orleans were classified as "free people of color" (and about 3000 of them owned slaves themselves.) The people of New Orleans were very proud of their diversity and the cosmopolitan atmosphere of New Orleans.
All of that changed after the War, and the suffering brought on by Reconstruction and the punishment that the Northern States wrought upon the South Jim Crow laws were implemented AFTER Reconstruction, and engulfed even those blacks that were slaveowners themselves because the whites put the blame of the War on the blacks. \
It's a myth that the War was fought because of slavery, The UK ended slavery without a war, France ended slavery without a war, and Brazil ended slavery without a war. Slavery is not a "warable" issue. The main point of the War was to establish a central banking system after Andrew Jackson refused to renew the charter of the Bank of the United States. Slavery was just a cover.
There was never any "racial issues" before the War, the war created racial issues that never existed before. And the Obama Administration will simply just make things that much worse.
We should have picked our own cotton.
No, black people did not act that way in the old days. I remember the 1950s.
Unless your father is well over a hundred years old, he doesn't remember that time period, either.
Actually the Democrats created segregation to punish their slaves for leaving the plantation. They changed tactics but not goals
He was completely OK, until he hit them while they were on the ground defenseless. It was the 3rd round of beating that he is going to be in trouble for. You don't get to beat people to death, no matter how justified you were at first. Like it or not, the standard is the reasonable use of force, and he is going to have a hard time explaining how he was afraid of these ladies while they were lying helpless in puddles of their own blood.
Have you ever been assaulted by two people at once? He had fractions of seconds to make every decision he made. One swing too many in self defense is better than one swing too few. He's not a cop, he hasn't been trained in self defense (obviously). He should not be held to the standard of one who has been trained, or one who is employed to protect and serve. He was running on adrenaline, and likely didn't even know if they were down to stay, or if they were trying to get up and attack him again. And we cannot see that part on the video. They may have been trying to get up and flee, but how can he give them the benefit of the doubt? He didn't know if they had a gun or other weapon on their persons, that they would simply have to level at him to kill him. DROP THE CHARGES ON THIS VICTIM.
If he injured them more than they had planned on being in injured, when they attacked him, then shame on them for miscalculating how badly they would come out of their attack on this innocent man.
I hate it when goblins miscalculate. Not.
I totally agree with Limbo. Once they jumped the counter he must have thought they were absolutely crazy and in fear of his life. I'm sure he has dealt with irate customers in the past but these broads must have thought they were the baddest women alive. If he had run further back into the kitchen they would have followed him and pinned him .. to do what he didn't know. He fought his way out. It's not like he left a metal bar in that location with the intention of beating the blood out of someone. He grabbed what he saw and attacked two mad women. It was a life or death decision. I'm sure if there wasn't video these women would have turned the story and made themselves look like helpless victims. We all saw what they did. Ask yourself what would you have done?
And the news didn't help, reporting "McDonald's worker attacks customers" which was complete BULL. Savage ghettos sub-humans got what they deserved. Even black guys hate black girls.
Well said!
Exactly. I think the guy defended himself UNTIL they were layed out. At that time, I think he was so passed angry because of being attacked by two chicks that they though they were something. If I was him, I would claim temporary insanity.
I wonder if the prosecutor looked up his criminal history and decided to charge him given his past deeds. Either way, he was performing a public service by beating those savages.
First I saw no video of puddles of blood and in self defense situation you are allowed to proceed till you feel the threat is over.When a citizen is pulled over or stopped and threatens an officer then those officers can defend themselves is that not true ;even if it means shooting them 20 or 30 times.Most internal and court investigations claim that the officers felt a threat and used reasonable force to end that threat even if it turns out the perpetrator did not indeed have a weapon.Everyone says this guy walks; I say he never should have been charged.
Wrong. They continued to stand up and present a threat to him and the other employees in the store. You could clearly hear him saying "GET DOWN" on the video. This is an open and shut case.
Tell that to Bernard Goetz.
"You look like you could use another."
no, its there goes that man again mama
Did you not see the size of those two fat wild cows? Let two crazed fatties jump and run after you and see how YOU react…and don't say you would have the mind set to just use "a little" force on them. Get real dude!
How do you know they were on the ground defenseless? You can't see what they are doing! They could be trying to tackle him, or beat on him, or bite his legs, who knows!
He paused if you watch the video ,he started on one as the one tryed to get up ,he was out numbered and fighting multiple attackers.if they both managed to get up it could have turned out nasty for him.You didnt see his fellow employees helping out or holding the attackers down. theone he strted hitting again tryed to get up and attack again.
Exactly Dave. I don't know why these people don't get it. Scary.
possibly, maybe, they shouted: "we'll kill you!!"…? Or there was a bunch of money behind the counter?
He walks. Need more of this type of response to occur. The right to carry a metal rod shall not be infringed.
Does anyone remember those two grills beating a transgender man within an inch of his life at McDonalds? These are not normal girls. These are girls that have been raised fighting, and with two on the attack, if you slip and go down after a push you are toast. Dead. As we've seen time and time again, bystanders will not stop the blood in these instances. They enjoy it too much.
His response was completely rational and justified. He rightly feared for his life.
he wouldn't have been charged if he'd stopped when they were down. initially his actions were justified, but to keep on beatin after they were down is something he should do time for. well that and bein too much of a wuss to handle a couple females without needing a blunt object.
lol, why don't you come into my neighborhood and I'll let a couple of the girls have a go at you. You better hope you don't go down, because they will kill you… the guy next door got took down by two girls, they poured gas on him and set him off, then left him for dead. Welcome to the hood. The cashier should have killed them with that rod.
You are an idiot.
you're a pc-fied wuss. now hurry back and do the laundry before you're wife gets home.
Ben, I wish I knew where you live. You were that coward kid in the 8th grade weren't you. Well, if you read across these posts you'll see that most people are fed up with what's been going on and relish these kinds of news items. Everyone except old panty-waist Ben. You better hope your wife or girlfriend (I giving you the benefit of the doubt) doesn't read your post, you idiot male impersonator.
You're an idiot too. "Ben" was replying to the idiot that thought the guy shouldn't be able to defend himself.
Steverooni, you are obviously a SWB (Suburban White Boy) and have no idea what this guy was up against. Like Dave Pointer said, go to his neighborhood or someplace like Baltimore. The predators there,whether the be male or female, will sooner kill your Lilly white ass, than stand there and reason with you. It's a concrete jungle my friend and it's survival of the fittest and your very life may be decided by your actions.
@steverooni: says someone who's never even handled even one female, and yes I'm saying you are a virgin.
Hint: When putting down crazed attacking zombies, do not stop until you either see brain matter or removal of the head.
"The two women were charged with menacing, disorderly conduct and trespassing".End of story if indeed they were menacing him ;and they were charged with menacing and trespassing so then his right to defend himself is appropriate.Had he come out from behind the counter and pursued them after the threat dissipated then sure he should have been charged.The 2 women were customers the trespassing occurred when they went behind the counter to pursue him.
Shouldn't those two animals also be charged with assault and battery? I t looked to me that they hit him prior to his defensive actions.
They assaulted him, he defended himself. He may well wish that he had stopped just a moment before he did, but it is better for him that he didn't stop too soon. There is NO EXCUSE NECESSARY for defending yourself. It is ridiculous that they are charging him with having a weapon… he just grabbed the nearest thing that he could use to defend himself. These women purchased their own end results, voluntarily. They offered this guy two choices: 1) Get injured, possibly killed, or 2) Do the same to those that assaulted him, until they are ABSOLUTELY unable to continue the attack. It's not as if he went and got a second weapon to finish them off. He was obviously acting in his own self defense, in the heat of the moment… it's easy to criticize him, watching the video at home, but this man was reacting to two attackers who were not playing around! He did not have time to stop and say, "Will you leave me alone now, have I beaten you enough to change your mind, or do I need to incapacitate you?" or "Can you still assault me?" He had to judge for himself… they put him in that position, he is utterly blameless in the eyes of any sane person. Unfortunately, your criminal justice system in places like NYC sees even self defense as a violent assault. The victim is the criminal, in America today. To be legal, the man would have had to simply take his unwarranted assault. He probably would have had to thank the two women, perhaps even to pay their rent for a couple of decades, just to be safe!
Welcome to living in a liberal state! NY is a hot bed of liberal stupidity that is a ss backward to common sense.
He just supersized the order and now the prosecutors are counting calories.
Now he knows how the police feel! Now, don't forget that we live in a sick society where defending yourself has become a crime.
Anbybody trying to second guess this kid has never been in a violent situation. Once the adenaline kicks in, unless you are very well trained, there's no telling what YOU might do in a violent confrontation. Even with advance training, there's unpredictability involved. The two women should be charged with aggravated assault and any charges against him should be dismissed. For all he knew, this could have been a robbery in progress, they were behind the counter, they attacked him physically and the cash register was right there.
They attacked, he backed off. One came over the counter at him, and the other moved to cut off his escape as they continued to come after him. He successfully defended himself. End of story.
Like other have said, if I were on the jury, he'd walk. Watching him beat the h377 out iout those to whackos who intended to beat him up made me smile.
If I'm on the jury he walks.
Charging this poor victim is prosecutorial misconduct.
The mere fact that he might go to trial will scare away others in defending themselves, and this weakens the society.
I don't understand why they charged him with anything….we have really become so lame as a society that we don't know right from wrong
He is not a law enforcement officer. He is not trained in excessive use of force. He is rendering himself safe and has no idea when the threat is over.
He is innocent until proven guilty and from the video, he looks innocent as hell.
They attacked, he backed off. One came over the counter at him, and the other moved to cut off his escape as they continued to come after him. He successfully defended himself. End of story.
This man should not be charged with anything…he was attacked the video clearly shows it …i certainly would have felt my life was in danger…these woman are animals and they tried to bully the wrong guy
true to a point phillysmart. He should of just pushed them away
thats easy to say now ..but when you are scared to death and the adrenelin is going its not that easy
He tried that you idiot and retreated, unless you watched a different video than me, they aggressively came after him at which point he defended himself.
You're right, but this is NY. Remember Micheal Nifong? The charges
are politically motivated. You cannot jeopardize the black vote, you cannot jeopardize the drug vote, you cannot jeopardize the BLGT vote, you cannot jeopardize the obese vote.
Too bad he didn't kill them. Remember Bernard Goetz? That is the only thing these animals comprehend.
And they certainly won't come back for more!
Self defense it is.
I hope there is a defense fund for him. How dare anyone charge him with any crime? It's the thugs who become the victims in the media. I pray not in the courts. Those two have been charged, have they not?
He definitely has some self defense claim. The question, IMO, is whether a jury would find that it's imperfect self defense since the force looks like it may have been a bit excessive. Yes, there were two of them, but the cashier wasn't alone and there were other employees around to help him get the women under control.
Also, I bet that his response was conditioned by his time in prison. I mean, if two inmates came after him in prison what we saw in the video would be exactly what he'd have to do to survive. I wonder if the jury will be allowed to take his particular past experience into account in deciding whether the use of force in self defense was reasonable.
NONE of those other employees DID ANYTHING, though. Just because people COULD HAVE helped, that doesn't mean a thing. THEY DIDN'T. End of story. This was their chance to help get those women under control. It happened, and they let it go by in fractions of a second.
Those other employees were just watching, like 80%+ of all people always do. His fellow employees are the same people who would walk by a man on the sidewalk who is bleeding to death, they clearly see what is happening, they think that it's a terrible situation, and they quickly walk on by.
If more of these thugs are beaten senseless we'll have fewer thugs behaving badly for no good reason.
OTOH, who's the thug here? Yah, the women were wrong to come after him, but this guy served ten years in prison for shooting and killing someone.
they picked the wrong guy…they iniated it he was trying to do his job…his past record has nothing to do with this…..I would give them more than they asked for if they came after me like that…he should walk whats he suppose to let them beat him or somehow use restraint…gve me a break
He served his time and was released. He was working, keeping his nose clean, "doing the right thing." He did not go looking for this trouble; it came to HIM. He shouldn't be punished twice for his original crime, and since when did being convicted of a crime and serving your time become justification for denying someone the right to defend themselves when attacked??
Oh, and if YOU ever get in trouble with the law, I suppose YOU will not mind when they drag up all those speeding tickets YOU got in your life or anything else YOU served your time for?
Cheers to McDonalds for hiring people that have been convicted criminals, otherwise they would just resort to a life of crime out of necessity.
What was the line in "The Green Mile" ? "He's paid his debt. He's square with the house/" If I were in a position to hire, I would likely recruit former convicts that have paid their debt, in instances when bonding or other factors are not an issue. The problem is that too many in our society – especially those that claim to be "Christians" – have forgotten what Jesus (who was a convict himself) said about forgiveness.
And for those of you that would accuse me of being a bleeding heart liberal there is a name that you should remember: Frank Abagnale, Jr.
McIntosh should not be charged. He is clearly innocent.
what is done about 7 million mooslime terrorists living in usa?
I love it and hope he gets off. Two fat, loud Latifas out of control, more power to him! Keep swinging, they could have gone to Burger King and had it "their way!"
The attack was brutal and the question is really about whether or not he needed to continue to beat them even when they were on the ground. You can't see what's going on that low but it does look like he stopped them early on and didn't need to continue to beat them like that.
But I will say he was in the right for defending himself to start but it looks like he took it a little far.
You don't know what went on behind the counter. It's possible they were trying to get up and as one person said on another page, when you disable an opponent in a situation like this, you make sure they stay down. As another person said, others could have helped him – well, they didn't. He couldn't be sure they would. According to most of the people who have been posting on this and the other site, no one would find him guilty. McDonalds should hire him back for doing his job. They weren't only going for money, although you never know what their intent was, as other reports have said he had questioned a $50 they were trying to give him and that is why he was first slapped, but they *were* going for him and he was defending himself. He should *not* have been expected to sit back and take a beating by two aggressors. That is unconscionable.
The counter jumping woman looks like a man. I would have been scared. And two of them? His fellow employees didnt seem to jump in to help him out. 2 vs 1. Maybe he used excessive force, its so easy to armchair quarterback the video which is what prosecutors will do. Does McDons train their employees how to deal with customers on the attack?
I cannot speak to what they currently train, but to the best of my memory, they used to train (at least up through the 1990's) employees to call the cops in a situation like this. That was it. They did not train to physically defend oneself or another employee. This man should have run from the women, somehow avoided physical confrontation by all means necessary, by their policies. SUCH policies fall short of reality. They trained to cooperate completely with any robber, follow all commands, and not to lay a hand on anyone, no matter what. I think the policy was more aimed at avoiding lawsuits than employee protection. The corporation is concerned with its own well being, which is the bottom line- $$$$$. Worker bees will come and go, it is the financial welfare of the hive that is important to the corporation.
It's LIBERAL nutless pukes like you that are ruining this country. Your "retreat like a girl and call the cops" attitude shows a real weakness in you, jimbo. Now, go back to watching Jersey Shore and reading your Cosmopolitan magazine.
You apparently missed what I said. I said that MCDONALDS TRAINS THEIR PEOPLE IN THIS MANNER. Learn to read, buddy. Learn to read.
Next time all irate customers will think TWICE before jumping the counter. Sorry it looked so brutal. Here's a man trying to keep his nose clean after serving time and this stupid woman jumps the counter to attack him…if he was a wimp he would be the one hurting they would have tear him to pieces. Good thing he could defend himself. She got her just reward and I know she will think TWICE.
If the gender has been reversed, 2 men jump over the counter and attack a female cashier, the cashier wouldn't be charged even if she killed them…
He was right in every way. He made a past mistake and is working to better him self today. These women need to be locked for up their actions and one of their mothers are defending them are you kidding me.
This did happen on the cashier's side of the counter, did it not?
Bitches, they deserved what they got. Let him go, cut him free please.
BOON-SHE in the make. not quite there yet but, 2-3 big macs away. definitely
This is why I no longer feel safe where there are video cameras..Simply because they are useless, even when the actual event is recorded, it does no justice at all.
Those two female hyenas are lucky to be alive. He did nothing wrong. McDonald's is a pack of hypocritical corporate little baby kittens and all the sensationalistic headline writers and reporters who are trying to make this out to be his doing should find themselves looking for their next scoop in a horse barn.
What do you mean he 'claims' self-defense? The video proves he acted in self-defense.
My goodness, the bias in the media nowadays is astounding. No one wonder people are always skeptical of reporting being brought out to the masses. It's completely twisted.
That's right. The first airing of the incident was in its entirety. Then the media chopped it up so that all people saw the next day was him using the metal rod. So many people I spoke to had only seen the chopped up version and had no idea that he was attacked first. Their opinions changed immediately after seeing the whole video on YouTube. Yes, most definitely self defense!
a lot like Rodney King, if you watched the video in it's entirety instead of the little bit the media kept playing over and over you would have seen what lead up to "THE INCIDENT"
These woman were lucky he did'nt kill them. Maybe these women will think twice next time. As far as the cashier goes, charges should be dropped and he they should give him his job back with retroactive pay. I would have done the same thing if I was in his shoes. Guy is not guilty period. People need to pay the price when they do stupid things like these two did. End of story.
Women like these two do not think and that's the whole problem here all away around.Wait for the major lawsuit these two bring against McDonald's for their own stupidity.
No. promote him to head of security or something like that.
Call me crazy, I'm not a violent person and have never had the tendency to be violent. If I'm at my work place and someone/two comes in and a physical altercation begins and THEY, JUMP THE COUNTER AND ASSAULT ME…I WILL BY ALL MEANS DEFEND MYSELF. IF HE WERE ON THE RECEIVING END OF THIS AND WAS KILLED OR IN THE HOSPITAL….McDonalds would tell his parents"We are very sorry for your loss". They would then hire the "next potential victim"
He had every right to defend himself !
Its obvious he's in the right. It was clearly self defense. Our society becoming so politically correct that it's actually handcuffing us and impeding our logic. Call a spade for what it is, a spade.
This man had to defend himself against those people who jumped the counter. I would have done the same to any of them. This man should be let go.


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Movie Review by Roger Moore, of McClatchy NewspapersIt takes forever to get going, and lollygags along even after that.
As a businessman scrambling to find a way to get his son's federal prison sentence reversed, Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson has to play fear, tough love, pity and panic — and he's a bit in over his head.
But that's the point of "Snitch," a straight-no-chaser thriller "inspired by a true story." The pacing is off, too many scenes lack dramatic punch and play like filler. But Johnson is pretty good at being a guy in over his head, sharing scenes with flinty pros like Susan Sarandon, Benjamin Bratt and Barry Pepper.
It's a tale of a civilian who gets mixed up in the feds-vs.-Mexican drug cartels war, whose "mandatory minimum sentencing" has snared John Matthews' naive 18-year-old son. The prosecutor (Sarandon) is a hard case, readying a run for Congress. So John makes a deal — he'll get "an introduction" into that world through his construction supply business. He'll use his Jefferson City, Mo., trucks for transport, and they'll nail big players from the cartel.
Co-writer director Ric Roman Waugh is a stuntman turned director. But he wastes a staggering amount of time setting that scenario up, and even more time getting to the point where his no-digital stunt experience pays off. Some of that establishes that John is a fish out of water and shows us his learning curve. Mostly, though, that slow pacing robs the story of tension and suspense.
What gives it juice is the supporting cast. John Bernthal (Shane in "The Walking Dead") is credibly wary as the ex-con John begs to get him in the door of the drug world. And the terrific Michael Kenneth Williams is the first dealer he meets, a guy who pulls a gun on him just to test him. Waugh can be forgiven for giving these guys more scenes than are absolutely necessary. They're that good.
Pepper sports a Civil War-worthy goatee in his role as an undercover fed who frets over John's safety. Rafi Gavron is properly frightened as the boy who let a friend entrap him with a box full of pills and sets this whole saga in motion, though Waugh loses track of the kid for much of the movie. We need reminding of the stakes, the danger.
But I like the way Johnson, often shot in extreme close-ups, underplays this guy. And I like the way the script lets John's ineptitude and discomfort in this world create the humor, the way Waugh has some scenes set to music, no sound effects, the way he dispenses with the obligatory "I'm gonna need to head to the gun shop" scene and the way the man films a car and truck chase — rending metal, shattered glass, none of that digital fuss and fakery.
"Snitch" isn't a great film. But after the run of brawling, over-the-top shoot-'em-ups/drive-'em-ups that have cluttered Johnson's resume, it's good to see him try his hand at acting, even if he is just as over-matched as the fellow he's playing.


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