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Back in town…
I wish I had a lot of new news to report to you all, but there really isn't much right now. The Spring Training schedule should be coming out in a couple weeks, so stay tuned.
Also, I've been reading all the Manny coverage from a distance and I think it's actually almost humorous that there's a belief that this wasn't a serious offer. We're talking about the highest paid player in franchise history (per year) and it's obviously the very first offer he's received from anywhere. For all we know, this will be the best offer that he gets. Just because he's asking for six years doesn't mean he'll get it (does anyone remember Andruw Jones' initial requests from last offseason?)
There's no doubt in my mind that we would love to have Manny back here, but I keep reading about Bonds and A-Rod and the precedent they set because they had large contracts that paid them through age 42. Does anyone remember that one of those years, Bonds played only 14 games due to injury? And just because A-Rod is getting paid through age 42 doesn't mean he'll be productive that long. I just find that argument hard to believe, but then again, it's not up to me to have to buy into it.
The bottom line is, there's no doubt he's worth one of the top two or three contracts currently in baseball over the next couple or few years, but who knows how he will perform in 2012 or 2013 or 2014??
Anyway, I know that this is all posturing as part of a negotiation and it's totally normal for any agent to ask for the world, knowing they're not going to get it, but if anyone thinks that somewhere in the range of $25 million per year is not a real offer, I'd love to know what they think would be "real."
That's about all I've got for now. We've got a few of our former players heading to veteran's hospitals today and tomorrow to spend time with people there and pay tribute on Veteran's Day, so hopefully everyone can take a moment to give thanks to anyone you know who has served on behalf of our country.
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We all have to settle down and not get caught up in the emotion of his last two months here. I take NOTHING away from that performance, but at the same time…paying any player guaranteed money past the age of 40 is irresponsible at best and crazy at worst.
I will say that the Coletti should go for broke on a 3 yr , 85 million dollar contract with incentives to trigger a 4 yr.
I really dont believe there will be a better contract out there for Manny.
Now, if he just is decided on playing in NY to break in the stadium and "come back home"….well then there isnt a way to do this.
Thanks for the new thread, Josh. You have just said what the majority of us have been saying about Manny. Ned has made a fair offer and if Manny truly loves LA, he will take it, no matter what Boras thinks.
JOSH thanks for keeping us posted. I just hope that Manny doesn't become a selfish player. I just hope that if decides to play for the Dodgers then he continues to help our players the way he did. I loved the way he played this past season and I hope that he decides to continue with the Dodgers. Manny L.A. loves you!
For all our Veterans…THANKS FOR EVERYTHING YOU HAVE DONE FOR THIS COUNTRY….GOD BLESS YOU AND GOD BLESS AMERICA. And too me a Veteran is not only the person that went out and actual physically fought for this country, is not only a military member, for me Veterans are also the fireman that fought to save your house, the police that protects our neighborhoods, the doctors & nurses that save our lifes, the teachers that teaches our children (molding them to a better future), the volunteers that help a needed person have a meal…THEY ARE ALSO DOING A LOT FOR THIS COUNTRY…GOD BLESS YOU ALL.
Good Morning/Afternoon ITD writers and readers!!!
Josh, thank you for the new thread, and like Dodgerules said, it seems like most of us are on the same page. It's the length of contract that is the tricky one when it comes to Manny, not necessarily how much he is getting paid.
Good late morning/afternoon ITD friends.
Josh- glad to have you back. We all want the Manny situation to work out in everyone's favor. We'd all love him to come back, but under the right circumstances. Thanks for the updates and the insight you are able to share with us. Hope the Madonna concert wasn't too crazy and you were able to enjoy yourself.
How is everyone doing this fine Fall day?
good morning everyone
I don't doubt that the contract is serious. I think the media's telling a lotta tabloid tall tales these days, and they're good for a chuckle.
Hope everyone's doing good this morning. Me, off to work again for a bit.
Media is trying to hype everything. Hey all eyes are on Manny & Dodger's right now…well the MLB eyes.
AMY – I heard the Madonna concert was great…I mean she had Britney show up and then Justin Timberlake. So yeah it was probably very crazy…but the good crazy!
really good article that speaks to what Josh is saying. You guys know I want Manny. I should be more clear. I want a PROVEN .300/400/.500 type hitter in the center of our lineup. We saw what happens when we have that. Manny fits the bill in that we don't have to give up players. Giving up 2-3 of our guys just not to pay Manny an additional 25 million will cost us more in replacement parts. Coletti should try to make some trades if he cant get Manny. And I don't want them caving to Boras either. I'm tired of seeing crappy offense. But the problem is we traded 15 or so prospects over the last three years already to always win now..
Rockies are trading Holliday to the A's. According to ESPN the deal should be finalized within a day or two.
Jungar – I want manny too. Don't you think that when the final offer from the Dodgers is made, he will take it? I haven't heard of many teams that want him or his huge contract.
i just heard about holliday.. interesting.. i'm not sure what the rockies were really accomplishing.. and i'm honestly really confused as to why they felt that holliday needed to be traded..
oops, actually nevermind.. i see that they felt that holliday wouldn't sign long term, so they were just trying to get something out of him since they can keep him..
Holliday was in Dana Point, Calif., last week at the General Managers Meetings to visit with Boras, whose current free-agent clients include Manny Ramirez, Derek Lowe, Jason Varitek and Oliver Perez.
Hey jungar – Didn't you say you thought you saw Matt Holliday when you were scoping out the scene in Dana Point? You were probably right.
The A's would be getting Holliday for Street, Gonzales (outfielder) and Smith (pitcher). They A's are also looking for a shortstop…….
I still feel that without first taking care of the pitching and infield issues, having Manny back means nothing. Scoring 6 runs a game is squat if you're giving up 7.
Welcome back Josh! So glad you are back and with a new thread! We missed you!
thanks for the thread. Very informative. Can we send it to Boras? Wish we had a lemon law here. Dodgers have such a bad history with FA. I still remember the days of Dave Goltz and Dan Stanhouse.
bless all the military that have served our coutry in so many ways.
forgot that today is a Booster Club meeting. Usually I drive to Burbank so that I can drive from there to the meeting in City of Commerce. Guess I will leave early to go get my car. this is our lat meeting as the next one is a Christmas party. ahh ..I remember last year we were talking about working on the Dodger Rose Parade float. We still work on other floats but it just wont' be the same. I remember the excitment last year working on OUR float.
It shouldn't be mutual exclusive. We should get Manny or the like and pitching. We had the best era in the NL without Manny. We just have to mainly replace Lowe to still be one of the better pitching teams..Tinker a bit. On offense we were terrible without Furcal. Pretty bad without Manny.So we have to get offese even if not Manny. And who better, for offense then him?
The only think I could think while at work was that if we didn't get Manny, it'd be interesting to see how long it would be before we ever saw a hitter that good in blue again. I wouldn't give him the world. Maybe a large island or a small continent, but not the world.
but replacing Lowe is going to be tough. His records were close to .500 in recent years, but watching him pitch, we know he was a lot better than that. We got him because he's a stellar pitcher in the offseason, but we barely got to try him out there (and his NLCS performance didn't turn out too well). He lived dangerously when the ump would call a high zone, but when he was on his game, all we'd need is 3 runs for a win.
Yet, there are always other fish in the sea…
I agree jungar – Furcal is an important piece both offensively and defensively. But if this team doesn't pick up an ace or at least two 2-3 type starters, our bullpen will flame out by the end of July. What worries me is, if we aren't in contention or even a halfway capable team, how long will it be before we see bad Manny?
Okay, EnchantedGM – what pitcher do you want to go get? And, are you going to make Manny one more offer, or leave it as it stands now? And, I love Furcal too, but do you worry about his health for a full season?
enchanted – you make a very good point about being out of contention halfway and Manny turning into bad Manny. Look where we were in July of this past season, and it really was due to Torre's ineffective lineups. If we are STUCK with Jones and Pierre, then I can see Torre doing the same thing he did last year with trying to give them time to prove they are worthy of a spot. As far as pitching, we need to find a replacement for Lowe for sure.
While we really do not know for sure the exact offer to Manny, it appears to be a realistic offer and probably has some room for movement. By taking this first step, the Dodgers have shown an interest in signing Manny. We all agree he is the greatest hitter most of us have ever seen in a Dodger uniform and created a lot of excitement the latter part of the season. However, how much risk do the Dodgers take to keep that excitement going?
As for the Pierre-Jones issue, I am going to be a bit more optomistic that Joe better understands the talent on the roster and how to use that talent. The challenge is how to handle two players who are unhappy but that are difficult to trade due to their contracts? Ned got us into this mess and I am hopefull he will find a way out.
lbirken – I'm keeping my fingers crossed!
Ned's blunders of commission are bad, but now with half a 25 man roster to restock, his blunder of omission is just as bad. We have 4 starting roster spots to fill, plus an entire bench, plus a couple arms in the BP. No team should ever have more than 3-4 FAs in any one off season, and definitely no more than 2 starters. Add to that a depleted farm system and two more guys that don't want to play for you… That's why I don't see Manny making a bit of difference. The troubles are going to be even worse if Frank puts a spending cap on Ned.
Furcal is the key to the whole off season. When he's on, the team goes, and that's with or without Manny. No Furcal would probably mean JP gets the leadoff spot back, and the whole outfield spirals out of control because then Dre or Kemp HAVE to go to fill some other roster spot(s.) Go 2 years with incentives for Ferk so that he has a chance to earn $18 mil a year.
The second sign has to be either Hudson or Crede, but Hudson's going to command bigger money and a longer contract. That leaves Crede at 1-2 years with incentives. Not anyone's #1 choice, but its honestly better than we went into spring with last year for third.
I'm sure CC will be far too costly, so now were down to a choice needing a pair of #2-3 type starters: Burnett/Sheets/Dempster/Garland (he shouldn't be with the other 3, but it's a pretty thin class of '09) – anything to eat up about 400-425 innings. McDonald either has to be trade bait or gain some experience in the pen. Having Kersh/McDonald/Schmidt or Stults 3-4-5 will wear out the bullpen in 4 months max. I also think Chan-Ho's season was an aberration – no way I'd want him to resign as a starter.
That doesn't even take into consideration halfway decent bench players. Nomar won't sign for less than $ 5-6 mil. That should buy you an average starter, not a part time player. There's a lot of FA's you could probably come by cheap, but are they worth having? Hell, give Lindsey a shot at PH.
And we still need a back-up catcher than can pull his own weight and start 30 games.
The other option is to call this a rebuilding year and let the chips fall where they may. That would put DY or Xavier Paul in the starting outfield (assuming they dump Pierre and Jones), DeJesus or Hu at 2B, Hu or Berroa at short. Billz/Kuroda/Kersh/McDonald/Stults as the rotation, and who knows what for a BP and bench.
Wow, enchantedGM – You have really thought that through a lot. I also think CC will be way too costly…..the Yankees are willing to pay him whatever he wants. I like your other choices for pitching, etc. See, if you can come up with a solution, why can't Ned & Frank?
Enchanted, I agree with you about Furcal. He is a risk but probably worth it since the Dodgers have no realistic alternative. I assume all things being equal Furcal would like to return.
Okay, we agree, keep Furcal!
That was easy! Of course, the hard part is the rest of Enchanted's scenario.
I don't see why it can't be done! lol
Hey Gang!!! Hope everyone is doing well!!! Beav, I pretty much agree with your earlier post. Just hope Ned the Furter doesn't panic and trade away our future. He still scares the heck out of me. Condolences and prayers to Preacher Roe and his family.
Jhall – Great to see you again! We worry about you when you're not here. Hope everything is oaky. You have to go back and see all the work EnchantedGM did yesterday……..made a cocktail menu for everyone connected to the Dodgers. Using the drinks, as well as a telethon to raise money to buy out Andruw & Juan's contracts!
Come to think of it, I don't think EnchantedGM came up with a cocktail for Josh!
Thanks Trumom!!! Everything is going well. Just chillin' a little. Hope all is well with you also. I will go back and check out the Enchanted cocktail. LOL!!! Anything to unload Phew and the Cow is a great idea in my book.
Hey jhall! It is go to see your shining name on ITD. We have missed you. I am sure you have been busy, and I am sure that's all good. 🙂
Hello everyone..if you are still employed it is a great day!!! That is my new philosiphy…
As for being out of it in July with Manny and he becomes unhappy…I do not see it if he is in the lineup….If we sign Manny and do not get CC, I would go for Dempster…He is 31 and just pitched 216 innings and gave up only 174 hits and that is in Wrigley…give him 3 years at an ungodly number and try to stay away from 4-5 year deal….Hopefully he is the 2nd coming of DLowe….starter, reliever and back to starter….
If not sign Petitte to a 2 yr deal and maybe Oliver Perez (for some reason I think he is a diamond in the rough and not a cubic zirconia)…He is still young and he has very good stuff….He is only 27 and look at his last 2 years…He won 15 and 10 games with 3.56/4.22 era and I like the fact that he has given up alot less hits than innings pitched….and he has pitched in NY the pressure cooker….He is my sleeper pick as a FA pitcher….Look at his stats for the last 2 years…only concern is wildness…walks too many..
2007 New York Mets 15 10 3.56 29 29 0 0 0 0 177.0 153 90 70 22 7 79 174
2008 New York Mets 10 7 4.22 34 34 0 0 0 0 194.0 167 100 91 24 11 105
I still say we trade for Beltre and keep Dewitt at second base…As for shortstop, I have a feeling someone like Baltimore will give Raffy 4-5 years because they are desperate…maybe Orlando Cabrera (not a star but a very serviceable SS and a great fielder), maybe a 2yr deal if possible so we can ease Dejesus into it….
Merci Nelle'!!! It's all good. At least till Ned gets in on the wheeling and dealing. LOL!! Or lots of moans!!!!
Some very good points Ramslover!!!
Wow, Ramslover, we have another genius in our family!
By the way, my husband has been a Rams lover since the Fearsome Foursome! After yesterday, you'd think he'd give up but, no, he's a fan, no matter what!
Ramslover – great post, and you are definitely right about having a job thing.
jhall – It's like "Here we go again." When will this "Ned Ride"finally stop so we can enjoy this Dodger team? I do know the answer to that question….
As much as I like Furcal, I don't think I would give him 4-5 years.
LOL Nelly!!! Unfortunate, but Ned is still the weak link in the Dodger chain.
Don't you think he'd go for fewer years?
I was reading on the A's website this afternoon after the Holliday news broke, and they are seriously looking for a short stop who can lead off. Bobby Crosby has been put out there for trade. And somebody mentioned on here the other night that the A's were looking at Furcal. Ellis at 2nd and Furcal at Shortstop is not a bad combination at all, and now with Holliday perhaps in the outfield. They have freed up money are willing to spend some of it. They think they have a winning combination this time.
Andy Pettitt filed for free agency yesterday. Is he washed up? If so, Joe would probably want him!
No way do I give Ferk 4-5 guaranteed years. And please Ned, don't even consider bringing Nomore back. Geez!!!!
I might go 3 guaranteed for Manny with a club option for the 4th, but no more. Unless an AL team goes after him hard, I think we have a good chance at keeping him for 3 to 4 years. Might have to eat the last year to get it done. 5 or 6 is out of the question IMO!!!!
Good post Nelly!! A's are going for it!!!
… We still have too much money tied up in the outfield princesses (JP and Andruw) and others. Not that I am saying we still can't afford Manny/CC (or players of the like), but the two princesses are a huge road block right now, whether Torre decides to play them or not. The A's got rid of all the excess, and now they are ready to deal. At least it appears that way. We, unfortunately, are stuck with our excess who will haunt us if they do not find happy homes.
jhall – I would give Manny a three year, with a 4th option. However,if I were Manny I would make sure the outfield remains Manny, Kemp and Ethier – if you put Jones/JP out there then you have just wasted him.
I would not give Raffy 4-5 years either, but if he is healthy and shows it in Winter ball, some jack-ss GM will. I would love to sign him for 2 years and a vesting option based on games and performance to guarantee years 3 and 4, but try to get a player to agree to that is impossible.
Trublue, I have been a Rams, dodgers and Lakers fan since 71 or 72 and I am from Delaware originally. I still root for the Rams also, so I feel your husbands pain!!!
Pettite if you look at his numbers last year was not bad and he would give the rotation some veteran leadership…In looking at Perez's numbers he is very interesting….
Hey Wally!!!
Can't remember where I read it, but someone thought we'd end up with Oliver Perez. As long as it isn't Odalis, we're OK.
I can't see Oakland giving Furcal the kind of contract money he'd want. Beane usually tries to trade high priced ballplayers away, not take them on. No way they sign Holliday to an extension before he goes FA either, especially not with Boras.
I am sure Furcal wants a deal longer than two years. With his back history I would be reluctant to go more than two years but there could be a way to structure a deal with options, buy-outs, etc. that could keep him interested in the Dodgers. If he can get a long term deal from someone else, he should take it and be well. I do think you would have to pay a premium per year to get Furcal to listen to a two year deal but that seems to be Ned's M.O. anyway.
Nelly, Ned and Frank, have to realize that these 2 anchors will drag the team down….you have to trade them to someone for a bag of used baseballs and eat most if not all of his salary….Jones I would eat all but 5 mil of his salary, you would have to think, a team like baltimore may take a chance at 5 mil….My worst fear is Andruw has a great winter league and Ned thinks he is cured!!!!
I would give Manny 4 years at 104 mil with a club option of year 5 if needed….
Great points Nelly!!! Cow, Phew, and Schidt should have put Ned in the unemployment line.
I too was a huge Laker/Rams fan in the late 60's and early 70's. Loved the Fearsome Foursome, Gabriel, Snow, Bass, Maxie Vaughn, Ritchie Pettibone Rams and West, Chamberlain, Goodrich Lakers back in the day.
enchanted – according to what I read, the A's know this may be a one shot deal with Holliday. They are very aware of his FA status and are willing to pay 13.5m for this upcoming year. I know what you are saying though. That's the first thing Jill (my A's fan friend) said, is they will get him just to trade him away. So, the A's fans aren't too optimistic about him staying even though the reports say otherwise. Some are still shocked over Swisher thinking they would never see him out of an A's uniform this early.
Hey Beav!! Have to agree with you.
KNowing Beane he got Holliday to peddle off to Ned for a kings ransom…he is too shrewd…watch what he ends up getting for him in July….Smith was a serviceable lefty no star…Gonzalez did not show alot in his time this year and Street pitched like he was hurt….he is the best in the game in my opinion!!
Ramslover, I think you are headed in the right direction for JP and/or Jones. JP might have some value to the right club but who would take Jones unless they could get him for nothing? This becomes more of a problem if the Dodgers do sign Manny. Could we take some of the telethon money and buy them out?
I can't see why anybody would want to play in Oakland! it is by far the worst ballpark I've ever seen……..I haven't seen them all, but it's pretty grim.
Birken, Frank is a business man and he knows that a property that is worth nothing will bring nothing…dress it up the best you can and unload….again a used bucket of BP balls and I would be happy!!! Eat all the money…..if you have to, because the damage that he will do if he is on the team will be catastophic….better yet make him the highest paid AAA player of all time…..
ramslover – I think you are right about Beane. He is definitely up to something, and I, too, trublu, am finding it hard to believe that Holliday would want to play for the A's. Somethings up over in the Bay…..
I'll bet Holliday ends up somewhere else too………it scares me because Beane loves doing business with the Dodgers.
I know Tru, he is licking his chops and thinking he will get Kershaw, DeJesus, Broxton for him…..this is our worst nightmare!!!!
Beane getting Holliday for what he gave up is a win/win situation (Ned take note and try it sometime) – If they're in the thick of it by the end of July, Holliday's there for the stretch run and the worst Beane gets is two high draft picks. They're out of the running by the trade deadline, then he does get a king's ransom for him. Only way he can lose is if Holliday get majorly hurt.
I know, Ramslover!
…the Ethier/Bradley deal backfired on him (with fabulous results for us IMO – lol!!!), but what are the chances of it happening again – uugghh!!!
Well, I'm off. I am sure we can pick up this conversation later as it will be a while before we know what will happen. Stay tuned.
You nailed that to the wall enchanted!!
Ditto to what Nellyae said, enchanted!
Personally I believe it was a serious offer but I can't understand why they didn't match A-Rod's annual of $27.5 Mil.
After all it's not who's the better player but how important Manny is to the team.
I can understand the disagreement with the number of years since knowing what will become of a 36 year old athlete in 6 years, is close to impossible since they are not all alike.
I just hope they come to some agreement.
Either Boras cuts down on the years or Colletti can raise the anti or add on a year or so.
I really wish we would go year to year with Raffy but that won't happen.
I'd also like to see them talk Lowe back, especially if we sign Manny.
Where Ned (and Frank) always make their mistake, is at the trade deadline they take on more dead weight rather than sell it off. Now I'll admit, Blake and Manny almost allowed them to pull off a penant, but had they been sellers they could've partially restocked the farm. That's why I don't see it as a bad thing that they get 4 picks for Lowe and Manny.
Had Ned had all these free agents and had replacements ready from the minors, then the off season wouldn't look so dire. But we don't have anything left that's ML ready.
Great points everyone. Ned has never had and still doesn't have the tools for the GM job.
Ned is still and will always be just a Furter as Beav stated last Spring!!!! LOL!!!
Just a big weanie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's why Enchanted in the new GM! He's got tools! LOL
That's the real problem jhall. These are the same exact discussions that happened last year at this time. The only difference is some of the characters have changed. Still need power in the lineup, still need a third baseman and possibly a short stop now, and still need starting pitching, and we for now, still have an outfield issue that wasn't solved from last year, but now we have two instead of one. Last year at this time, Andruw wasn't in the picture, but we still wanted JP out there. Like you said, the one weak link is Ned.
"out of there" – like I would ever say I want JP out there in the outfield – LOL!!!!!!
Nellyae – did you notice that Dining with Dre isn't on the homepage anymore? I thought he was supposed to post a new review.
Also, the decision whether to sign Manny should be purely baseball and not box office or emotion.
If you think that Manny will be an overall plus to your team for the next 2-3-4-5-6 years, then try and sign him to what makes sense, whether it's 2 years at $55 mil or 6 years at $125 mil. If not, move on and try and sign players that will make your team better.
The way I see it, the D's payroll needs to be in the $125-135 mil range to make it a legitimate contender. That's CC or two others, Ferk, a 2B/3B, some bench players and a couple of BP arms. If Frank isn't willing to spend that, then let's call it what it will be – a green girdle year. I'd say rebuilding, but I've now realized that there's nothing to build from save McDonald, DeJesus, Hu and Elbert (and that ain't much to hang your hat on.)
LOL Nelly or LOM!!!! Ned has actually set us back at least a year and more realistically two. He's not even a bun length weanie. Can't even cover his own a** (buns)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So true Beav!!! Ned has painted us into a corner that only Frank spending can start to get us out of.
trublu – yes, I noticed, but Torre's Stories is also not on there. I am trying not to read too much into it, yet 🙂
Me, too, I suppose.
trublu – it's still on the mlblog page
Okay, that's good!
It's sad to note that another Dodger has left this world.
May Preacher Roe, he can't miss, join that great team up above.
The Preacher was one of our best.
Amen PierreEW!!!!
I would sure like to read that Andruw the Cow is going to play winter ball. Would certainly help lose the weight and help with his mechanics and timing at the plate. But hey, what the heck do I know. Geez!!!!
Theoretically, Jones should have at least a decent year playing for another contract.
Hey Pierres!! How you doing nowadays??
Padres letting Hoffman go…….wanted him to take pay cut….he said no………they said bye-bye.
Good Evening once again ITD readers and writers!!!!
I thought I would come back missing a whole bunch only to see not much has happened since I left.
how's everyone doing!? Haven't been on in a while…
Good Evening jeanette!!
Doing pretty good myself ~ How are you? Busy I would assume with classes and such 🙂
I'm good! Yeah! 3 exams today, plus trying to enroll for the spring!! but then they only offer a limited amount of classes and i'm left with one class and on the waiting list for two! I need some DODGER baseball for these stressful times!!
Dodger baseball would be nice right now. It's amazing they still have the same problem with too many students and not enough classes so all the students can take the classes they need. I went to Sac State and had the same problems 19 years ago ~ Times never change.
I know that Holliday only has a year on his contract and I know that I know next to nothing about the A's roster, but it seems to me that the A's got Holliday for next to nothing.
I was hoping the Fall 09 semester would be my last, but this way i'm going to be stuck there one more semester! Hopefully I get into the classes I'm waiting on, i'm #2 on one list and #5 in the other one! With the budget cuts too, they offer less classes!
Good Evening Ward Dear….. yes, I believe the A's did. There is nothing special about any of the players that the Rockies would get for Holliday. Jill (A's fan) thinks Smith could have been pretty good, but the other two were like "so what.."
How was your day? Everything go okay?
jeanette – good luck in getting into those classes. I would assume the CA college system is going to get hit hard in the coming years. I teach in the Central Valley and we just had our budgets frozen. All my school supplies will come out of pocket with the exception of paper and pencils.
Yeah, yes and no. Matt got a clean bill of health again. Doc doesn't want to see him until May. If he's clean then, he thinks he'll be good for the duration. Then we went to take his papers in to the council only to find them closed. Bummer. No one said it would be easy! LOL!!
June Darlin', "All my school supplies will come out of pocket with the exception of paper and pencils." Does that mean what I think it means?
That's great about Matt!!!! No so good about the council office being closed.
We are not sure why are budget was frozen. We will know more next Wednesday at our Staff Meeting. Why they are waiting until then, I don't know that ethier – I just work there. So far, I am not sure what other districts had the same thing happen. For all I know at this point, it could be something our district did, but even if they did, their budgets I'm sure are not getting cut, just the teacher's classroom budget. As far as me and the way I teach, I spend alot of my own money anyway – it's just the way I am. The funny thing is this year I haven't even touched my classroom budget yet. I usually wait until the spring to buy more construction paper, paint, and other art supplies and it's usually for the next year.
Ward Dear… the funny thing is this e-mail came out the day after the election- hmmmmm!! The timing is very suspicious if you ask me.
That's amazing! You have to use your own money? That's a very foreign idea to me. My best friend is a 7th grade science teacher and one of my sisters-in-law teaches the 5th. I'm going to have to ask them if they're in the same boat.
T.J. Simers
November 9, 2008
There's a sucker born every minute, and Frank McCourt is counting on that so he can continue to fill Dodger Stadium.
This last week, McCourt played Dodgers fans and the baseball world for fools, ESPN buying into it with a crawl at the bottom of the screen and headlines on its website: "Dodgers make huge offer to retain Manny."
Foxsports.com called it a "monstrous offer" and Ken Rosenthal began his story, "Even if the Dodgers are unable to re-sign Manny Ramirez, no one will be able to accuse GM Ned Colletti of not trying."
My old broadcasting pal, Fred Roggin, said he had talked to McCourt and then commended McCourt for stepping to the plate presumably because he agreed to talk to him.
The Dodgers' website reported and continues to report the offer to Ramirez was "believed to be in the neighborhood of two years at $55 million," although most every other report had it closer to $45 million.
But whether it was knowing or unknowing exaggeration, promising words like huge and monstrous or misinformed commentary, McCourt got his message to season-ticket holders: "Look, I'm doing everything I can to bring back Manny."
If true, then maybe he ought to read his own website, Manager Joe Torre quoted as saying, "I think he'd like to come back, but I think he's at a point in his career where he wants some longevity, and I understand that."
Everyone in baseball knows Ramirez wants some longevity, so why did the Dodgers use their exclusive negotiating window with agent Scott Boras to make an offer they knew would be unacceptable? Just for show, of course, McCourt consistently mindful of image, going through more PR consultants than GMs and managers.
The only thing that should matter is that Ramirez means more to the Dodgers than any free agent means to any other team.
The Dodgers became relevant again, and only because of Ramirez. If you're going to make a franchise-changing/saving offer at a time when no one else can, the only offer made should be one so good it can't be turned down — before anyone else gets the chance to enter the bidding.
The Angels covet Mark Teixeira and are in the same situation as the Dodgers with the same agent, but they haven't made an offer for Teixeira, or if they have, no one's heard about it.
We know about the Dodgers' offer because they wanted everyone to know about it even though they readily admitted Boras was probably going to wait and listen to others Nov. 14.
"We said think about it for a while," Colletti told Boras. "It's not going to be there forever."
I wouldn't be surprised if it was written in invisible ink, because I remain unconvinced McCourt really wants Ramirez back.
Maybe it was just an opening bid, as some contend, although Colletti has already talked about taking it back. Maybe McCourt spends the rest of this week using this exclusive window to close a deal for Ramirez.
Or maybe the Dodgers will just go with Juan Pierre or Andruw Jones in Ramirez's place.
Anything you want me to pass along to McCourt?
Well, Arnold just raised the sales tax, maybe that'll help you out!
You know, I'm the last one to defend McCourt or Ned but I'm with them on this initial offer to Manny – just like I was with Buss when he didn't want to pay Shaq for his declining years. Why give him what he wants right away? Does anyone think that Boras won't give the Dodgers a chance to up the ante if he gets a better offer?
That post as I read it has nothing to do with Manny. Manny is just this years story. McCheap is McCheap and cares more about image than winning. Also the Dodgers have a moron for a GM.
Ward Dear…. I get a classroom budget of $425, and that has gone down $100 in the last few years. If I just bought paper, pencils and basic art supplies, I would easily get there. Well, just my bulletin boards alone are costing me money, but it's something I love to do, along with all the other extras (student store, books for my classroom library, etc.). However, for some teachers, this will be a nightmare for them. I was one of those who gave my classroom money away at the end of the year because I didn't use it all. There are a few of us at our site. I have learned how to stock up for the following year, so I am not as generous as I used to be. I used to be able to deduct it for tax purposes, but that doesn't happen anymore. Ward Dear… it's just me – can't help it. As much as this class has driven me insane this year at times, they will still get the same experiences, budget or not.
jungar – I like the last line – LMAO!!!!!
Ward Dear…. We won't see a dime of the sales tax increase, just like we haven't seen a dime of the lottery money. Our school performs too well to get any of that money. Every year our test scores go up, our budget gets cut because the government feels we don't need that help anymore. The government is paying for below basic standards and taking away from those who are gifted, proficient and advanced.
Because I want to write a post on what I would do as GM and I am stuck, because Coletti has us stuck. Think about it…But yet, then the A's will snag a masher and Furcal probably and Ned will be waiting on Manny.
jungar – so what you are saying is that while Ned is waiting on Manny all of these other opportunities are going to pass the Dodgers by and we may end up with nothing.
oh no, not nothing..
nothing is what should have happened two years ago. Instead we got
Nomar blocking Loney at 1b
Nomar then blocking LaRoache. (we can talk about this)
Gonzo blocking Ethier.
Pierre and Jones blocking Kemp from CF
Tomko/Henderickson blocked Billingsley
So he will do something. He has to if we don't get Manny. Thats why I prefer to go all in on him. This again for Enchanted I am only talking offense….When you look at free agents and money it will take I see either Manny (which I don;t see and why I harp) or guys like , Ray Durham, Orlando Cabrera, Juan Pierre.
gotcha…..so what are the chances that Ned screws this up?
"…so what are the chances that Ned screws this up?"
I'd say 100%.
Good morning enchantedGM – if it were possible, I'd say 110%.
Boys of Summer' pitcher Preacher Roe dies
By BEN WALKER, AP Baseball Writer 10 hours, 39 minutes ago
Buzz Up
NEW YORK (AP)—Preacher Roe, who began pitching in the Ozarks and became a four-time All-Star as a revered member of "The Boys of Summer" in Brooklyn, has died.
Roe died Sunday in West Plains, Mo., said the funeral home handling the arrangements. His own Web site listed his age as 92—other reference materials differed by a year or two.
Roe went 127-84 in a 12-year career with the Dodgers, Pittsburgh and St. Louis. But it was in Brooklyn, where he played alongside the likes of Pee Wee Reese, Jackie Robinson, Gil Hodges, Ralph Branca and others at Ebbets Field, where he enjoyed his greatest success and acclaim.
Though those Dodgers teams of the 1940s and 1950s won only one World Series — Roe was part of three teams that lost to the New York Yankees—they became a beloved part of the borough. And Roe, a skinny left-hander and mathematics teacher from a small town in Arkansas, was among the fan favorites in the big city.
"He enjoyed playing the role of a country bumpkin, but he wasn't one," Branca recalled by phone Monday night. "He was real smart, and real crafty on the mound.
"He threw two pitches, a slider and his 'Beech-Nut slider.' Beech-Nut was a gum we all chewed back then. He knew how to use that juice to get that ball all wet."
After retiring, Roe admitted in a Sports Illustrated story that he had benefited for years by throwing a spitball.
Like his age and his best pitch, it was slippery trying to pin down exactly how Elwin Charles Roe got his nickname. According to one family story, he dubbed himself "Preacher" at a young age because he admired a local preacher.
Branca remembered it differently.
"We all called him 'Preacher' because he could talk your ear off," he said. "If there was no one around, he would talk to the wall."
Roe led the NL in strikeouts in 1945 with Pittsburgh. He posted his best season in 1951, going 22-3 for the Dodgers—he did not, however, start in the three-game pennant playoff with the New York Giants, capped by Bobby Thomson's famous home run.
Roe helped put the Dodgers into the World Series in 1949, 1952 and 1953. He started a game in each of those matchups with the Yankees, going 2-1 and completing all three outings.
Known for his sharp control, Roe finished with a career 3.43 ERA and pitched 101 complete games.
Roe made his big league debut with St. Louis in 1938 and pitched only once for the Cardinals. He spent the next several years in the minors and returned to the majors with Pittsburgh in 1944.
Roe's path stalled for a few years following a brawl back home in Arkansas. He was coaching a girls' high school basketball team, got into a dispute with a referee and, according to local stories, wound up with a fractured skull.
"He wouldn't fly with us," Branca said. "It made his head hurt. He always took the train."
The Pirates traded Roe, infielder Billy Cox and reserve Gene Mauch to Brooklyn for former star outfielder Dixie Walker and two other players after the 1947 season.
Roe retired after going 3-4 in 1954 and later owned a grocery store in West Plains. He often attended the Dodgers' adult baseball camps at Dodgertown in Vero Beach, Fla.
"Preacher Roe left an indelible mark in Dodger history. He was one of the original 'Boys of Summer' and his success in the World Series against the Yankees in 1949, 1952, and 1953 helped pave the way for the 1955 world champions," Dodgers owner Frank McCourt and team president Jamie McCourt said in a stateme
Good Job Joepierre. RIP Preacher Roe.
The 2 players the A's trade came from the dback in the Haren trade. I guess those 2 players didn't last long.
Let me peer into Ned's mind and rattle around and come up with 2009's opening day line-up…
LF – Pierre
RF – Ethier
CF – Kemp
1B – Loney
3B – Crede
C – Martin
2B – DeWitt
SS – Berroa
P- Billz
No one's going to want Pierre or his contract. His skills, what there were to begin with) have been on the decline since 2003. And since they need some power in the #3 hole, they can't afford to let Kemp lead-off.
Crede – a bargain market FA that he'll sign for a decent salary + incentives. Frighteningly, he's a step up from what we went into ST with last year at 3B.
Berroa – I believe the earlier decline of option was strictly to save cost. Played well enough at the end to earn a spot on this season's team, but should be strictly a bench player.
Bench – Ray Durham (always room for another ex-Gnat. Also a cheap FA), Andruw Jones (can't trade him. JoJo will also be using him quite a bit so figure that eats into Dre's and Kemp's playing time), DY (mostly forgotten like he was this year), Hu (someone's got to back up short), and either Ardoin, Ellis or some cheap FA pick-up as a back-up catcher.
Rounding out the staff: Kuroda, Kersh, McDonald, maybe Oliver Perez or someone similar, Wade, Troncoso, Kuo, Brox, Elbert, Stults, Schmidt.
Playoff tickets anyone???
Oh come on let's be honest Kemp RF, Jones CF to redemp himself, Ethier LF and no surprise Sweeney would be back lol.
Honestly, I'd be happy if Jones came back and played just well enough to be of some value at the trade deadline.
Not even Ned's dumb enough to want Sweeney back.
… or is he????
LMAO!!!!! Enchanted – thanks for answering my question that I asked LAST NIGHT!! I must have fallen asleep waiting for a response. LOL!!!! Then again, you are enchantedGM, and maybe they thought it best you answer the question. LOL!!!!
BTW – good morning!!!!!
I thought we were raising enough money to buy out the Jones/Pierre contracts! The EnchantedGM Cocktail Lounge should bring in plenty of money and, then there's the telethon!
….not to mention all the sales of our wonderful merchandise – LOL!!!!!!
LOL, dnellyae! We will have plenty of cash. Batting practice today?
Probably, but not sure when yet.
Let me know if you go……..I don't want to do it alone!
If Ned gave Pierre 5 years he should offer Manny 3 years with an option. Manny is a franchise player and run producer, Pierre is a pinch runner at best. The other thing that I keep thinking about is last years off season when Ned waited to interview Tori Hunter while the Angels signed him. If you seriously want a player go out and get him before he ends up elsewhere and then you end up with the Andruw Joneses of the free agent class. I'm sure Ned will find a way to screw up this off season, probably something nobody but him thought of.
Didn't read your new post until today (thanks for trying to stay current). I think the majority of the people on the boards feel the deal offered is fair. There are not too many people that think it would be wise to give Manny more than 3 years. I think the real question is why the team itself has made such a big deal about the offer. I think many fans see it as a PR move by the McCourts to say, "See, we did what we could," in the event that he declines the offer. This may not be the case, but that is the perception that the McCourts must deal with because the level of trust that many of the fans have in them is not very high.
Ned shot himself in the foot too with the $18 mil/yr. debacle with Jones. How can you look at Raffy now and tell him you're not worth 18 a year? How can you tell Manny he's not worth 30 a year compared to that? Unfortuantely, Jones is now the benchmark.
Its still far beyond my comprehension how Ned could look at Jones' shape (obviously round) and still go ahead and sign him. How did he pass the physical?? Hunter might've already been signed, but hell I'd have taken Cameron or Edmunds or just kept Phew playing everyday over that… gentleman.
enchantedGM – You are right about your assessment of Ned's wheeling and dealings. I noticed on your probablke starting lineup…no Furcal. You don't think we will sign him? Just for lead-off purposes alone, he'd be well worth the money.
clhuerth – good points, too!
enchanted – Thanks for enlightening us and making it even more clear how screwed the Dodgers and their fans could be if Ned doesn't figure this out.
I think if we're lucky, Ned gets Ferk resigned Tru. But if he's asking multi-year guaranteed, I think Frank puts the kibosh on it – Cow Schmidt leaves a bad taste in your mouth, not to mention the Phew.
Good morning all, still employed so all is well!!!! I am still amazed that Beane got a legit power hitter for a 5th starter, a hurt reliever, and an iffy prospect…..Amazing!!! Gonzalez was highly thought of last year but he could not hit lefties (might be a problem), and Beane is smart enough to see his mistake and move on….Take note Ned….
I have to believe someone will take Pierre if he costs little or no money….we owe 3 mo years at approximately 27 mil….Ned eat all or most…Pierre at 4-5 mil per year is not a bad deal for someone….(maybe I am being naive or just hoping someone will want him)…Ned you have to get him out of here….How about KC, they have Joey Gaithright in CF and he is a poor, poor mans Pierre….
My wish list….
If not CC then…
SP….Dempster (4 yrs 40 mil)and Perez 3 yrs 25 mil..really like Perez the more I look at his numbers….you do not see 25-30 less hits than innings pitched very often…
Plan B Pettite for 2 years and Perez…
SS…Furcal or Cabrera for 2 years, Raffy will not accept, but how can you risk 4 years coming off of 2 injury plagued years…love him but…
3B…I know Crede will probably take a 1-2 year deal, but again can he stay healthy…maybe in the California sun his back will respond better, but it is a risk…Trade for Beltre…Mariners are not close to contending in the AL West…and he is still only 29 years old…amazingly…Gold Glove and consistent .275 to .280 with 25 hrs….if his wrist/thumb is healthy…If not try to trade for Brian Roberts and Dewitt to 3b. Solves our leadoff issue.
Bullpen…brox is the closer….Saito is the 8th inning guy if he comes back and if he proves healthy he will be the insurance policy. As for lefties Beimel at a reasonable price or Embree on a 1 yr deal…I would start Elbert in the pen..he showed some promise in limited action last year…
OF…Resign Manny and you have to get rid of the dead weight…Hoping for a comeback for Andruw is like believing Elvis is still alive…his mental pysche is crushed and that is hard to overcome…if it was just physical we would have a chance….If no Manny, Oh Sh-t!!! It will be a long year….I can see Ned getting desparate and signing Burrell to an oversized contract….he is not the answer.
The bench….I like the idea of John Lindsey as a power bat off the bench…god knows he deserves a chance…Ozuna/Hairston/Bloomquist type who can play multiple positions….actually did not mind Ardoin as the number 2 C…DY and a Jason Michaels type….Repko, it is time to move on…never healthy and has not shown he can produce consistently…
Sorry for the long post and I hope it makes sense.
Ramslover – the long post was well worth reading! I believe they will offer Manny one more deal and, if he doesn't accept it, they will move on…..hopefully with someone who can be a valuable asset to the team. It was said on ESPN this morning that the market for Manny is quite limited. However, the Phillies are now interested. CC will be a Yankee because they are willing to outbid anybody to get him.
EnchantedGM – from your previous lineup you asked, "Do we see a playoff contender?" With the exception of Matt and Andre playing everyday(who could possibly have 30 homers)……..I don't feel very enthusiastic about our chances.
ramslover – It's good to hear you are still employed. My prayers are with you for sure. I love everything you said, especially the Jones remark (LMAO!!!). What a true disappointment he was. As ITD historian, I have been reading all of last years hot stove topics and most of us were so glad to get him, along with Torre, and it looked like a very good solution to the Pierre in Centerfield problem, but boy, were we and Ned wrong.
new thread


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Student professor relationships as awkward fantasies?
The Washington University of St. Louis student newspaper, STUDENT LIFE, published a pre-Valentines Day article, "Professor Student Couplings Remain Awkward Fantasies".
In the dankprofessor's opinion the major awkwardness regarding the article is that no student interviewed had ever had a romantic relationship with a professor, and no professor interviewed had ever had a romantic relationship with a student. This goes beyond awkwardness. I call it shoddy journalism.
The article did state that professor student dating is rare. But rare or infrequent dating is not the same as non-existent dating. If the article writer had simply asked around, the probability is overwhelming that either a student or professor could have been found. Such ruminations remind me of the Iranian president's statement at Columbia University that there are no homosexuals in Iran.
There was one interview with a professor. Interviewed was Dean Jami Ake, professor of English and women and gender studies, who serves as a co-chair of the Committee on Sexual Assault.
Wow! In an article on student professor consensual relationships, the student newspaper decides that the one professorial interview should be with a person who serves as co-chair of the Committee on Sexual Assaults. The choice of a sexual assault specialist says it all. If the paper was doing an article on marriage, would they have selected a specialist on rape to be interviewed? If doing an article on gay marriage would they have selected a specialist on child molestation?
But Dean Ake was not all that bad, she
"agreed that there is a potential connection between academic and romantic interest. Even the vocabularies overlap. 'I want you to be passionate about something. I want you to be inspired by it,'" Ake said. "It's easy to see how that kind of intense interest in somebody and everything they stand for can translate more in terms of passion."
Ake said that navigating the boundaries between close and too-close relationships is difficult, in part because of the worry that the student will feel uncomfortable or harassed.
Dean Ake certainly got it right when she imparts the understanding that in essence love of knowledge can lead to knowledge of love. However, she does end up on a patronizing note when she states that things may end up being difficult and worrisome and this could lead to the student feeling uncomfortable or harassed. Such is patronizing since she ignores the potentiality of the professor also feeling uncomfortable or harassed. Or, of course, in more general terms the potentiality of both the professor and student ending up in a state of love and happiness is ignored.
However the news reporter did ask Ack if a student could have a healthy relationship with a teacher. Note the questioner did not bother to ask if the professor could have a healthy relationship with a student. Her response was "I would say the odds are against you, but anything's possible." Anything is possible, I guess her response would be similar to believing that in Sarah Palin's terms it is possible that President Obama could end up paling around with terrorists. And in the dankprofessor's opinion it becomes a fool's game to attempt to characterize almost any romantic relationship as healthy or unhealthy.
But all was not for naught in this article. There was one interviewee who appeared to be quite knowledgeable on issues related to student professor relationships.
Senior Emma Cohen is writing her senior humanities thesis on the discourse of sexual harassment and consensual relationship policies in universities, and its implications for pedagogy. She argues that fear of student-teacher relationships is based on the incorrect assumption that students are powerless in those situations. According to Cohen's thesis, intimacy on certain levels can be productive in an academic relationship.
"While policies are rightly concerned about preventing exploitation of students, they tend to sort of shut down tendencies for personal intimacy without sex," Cohen said.
Yes, Cohen's bottom line is of critical importance. The fear and stigma that is occurring in regards to student professor relationships has led to all close relationships between students and professors becoming suspect. Too many profs fear that a close relationship with a student will lead to the imputation by others of a sexual component. Such leads to too many professors having an open door policy; open door policies simply do not facilitate closeness or intimacy. What it does facilitate is impersonality.
What this article fails to note is that student professor intimate relationships may very well lead to the discarding of the student professor labels. True intimacy undermines the power of such labels. In Martin Buber's terms, an I-it relationship is replaced by an I-thou relationship. In this framework, it does not become surprising that the powers that be who are committed to preserving the ongoning hierarchy, almost always attempt to control love, love and marriage, and romance. The freedom to choose who to love and how to love simply has no place in authoritarian organizations. In such frameworks, love that crosses boundaries becomes the societal enemy par excellence.
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Sorry it took me so long to read this article. Of course, many professors, and also students will worry about what others might think, if they get too close. This paranoia is directly related to the draconian "policies" being instituted at many American Colleges. These "policies" assume the student to be an infant, who needs paternal protection from them (the college). These colleges have forgotten that:
1) Students are young adults, past the age of consent.
2) These "policies" are a violation of the students' & professors' Civil Rights of privacy & free association.
3) If the college is a public institution, the U.S. & State Constitutions can also be brought into play.
4) In the zeal to protect students from sexual harassment, respect should also be given to the individual rights of both professors & students.
When will it end? Probably with a huge lawsuit filed by a fired professor, whose student lover/s testify in his/her defense that they were willing participants, and were not "harassed", or "exploited"!
Comment by Donald Visconti | July 10, 2010 |
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