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White Sox stunned by Swisher, Tribe in nightcap
Reed blows three-run lead in ninth to complete doubleheader sweep
CHICAGO -- After almost eight hours of baseball Friday at U.S. Cellular Field, all the White Sox had to show for their effort was two more gut-wrenching losses to the Indians along the highway of a fading 2013 season.
The longest doubleheader in Major League Baseball history, featuring two nine-inning games that resulted in 19-10 and 9-8 victories for Cleveland (42-38), might not have been the longest day of Robin Ventura's two-year managerial tenure. But it certainly has to rank near the top as one of the toughest.
"It's one of those that you have to be able to grind it out and win a game and we just couldn't close it out. They were swinging it," Ventura said. "I don't know if you felt like you weren't safe with the way they were swinging it because we were swinging it, too. We just didn't close it down."
A strange side note from these seven hours and 53 minutes of baseball, with a 25-minute rain delay before the start of Game 2 mixed in for good measure, was that the White Sox (32-45) didn't lose because of their porous defense or their anemic offense as they have countless times previously. In fact, the South Siders scored 18 runs on 26 hits, sparked by six hits and four RBIs from Jeff Keppinger.
This sweep fell upon a rare off-day for the pitching, punctuated by a second straight blown save from closer Addison Reed (3-1). The White Sox built up an 8-5 lead going into the ninth, gradually erasing a 4-0 deficit from the first inning, but that advantage disappeared within three singles, a long Jason Giambi fly out and Jason Kipnis' game-tying sacrifice fly.
Six pitches later, Nick Swisher took care of his old team by launching a 409-foot, game-winning homer to right on a full-count fastball. Much like other rare struggles from Reed this season, it was location that beat him on Friday night.
"That's any time I get in trouble, it's missing spots," Reed said. "It's not putting the ball where I want to put it. Hector [Gimenez] called all the right pitches. I just didn't execute them. Ball was over the plate and up in the zone and they made me pay for it."
"I haven't had all that much success off Reed. He's a guy that's got a plus fastball, good slider, good changeup," said Swisher, who is now 1-for-4 against Reed. "That was one of the best comebacks we've had all year, and to do it against a guy like that, that was awesome."
Gordon Beckham knocked out four hits in the doubleheader, while Adam Dunn had three hits and four RBIs. It was Dunn who delivered the go-ahead shot in the sixth inning of Game 2, with a two-out single up the middle off left-handed reliever Rich Hill completing a four-run rally. That single put Jose Quintana in position for a victory, an impressive feat considering the southpaw opened his outing by giving up singles to Michael Bourn, Mike Aviles and Kipnis and walking Swisher.
Quintana forced home a run one out later by walking Carlos Santana, and a Michael Brantley sacrifice fly added another first-inning tally. But the southpaw settled down to retire 10 in a row from the second through the fifth. Mark Reynolds broke that streak with a solo homer to open the sixth, but Quintana worked through six innings on 103 pitches with three strikeouts and three walks.
Nate Jones and Jesse Crain shut down the Indians over the seventh and eighth innings, although Crain had a bit of a scare in the eighth. With two outs and Santana on first, Brantley hit a line drive down the right-field line that easily had the distance for a home run but went foul around the pole by a foot or two. A check of the replay by umpire Wally Bell and his crew confirmed the decision, and Brantley popped out to shortstop Alexei Ramirez to end the inning.
Fortunes weren't nearly as lucky for Reed. With the troublesome turn this season has taken for the White Sox, there was almost a sense of the blown save coming after the first two solid singles from Ryan Raburn and pinch-hitter Asdrubal Cabrera.
"You're devastated when things like this happen, but I wouldn't say it's a 'here-we-go-again' type of thing," Dunn said. "It just seems to happen. We wouldn't have as many wins as we have if it weren't for Reeder and those guys. It seems like when things goes bad, they go real bad."
Ventura's crew reached a new low by dipping to 13 games under .500 for the first time and slipped to 10 1/2 games behind the Tigers in the American League Central. That deficit is immaterial for a team that just can't seem to get its full act together, and probably won't be given much more time to figure it out.
"When we do hit, we don't pitch. When we do pitch, we don't hit," White Sox reliever Matt Thornton said. "When we do both, the defense slides a little bit. It always seems like one thing or another goes wrong."


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When you read as much as I do, you're bound to develop some opinions that others might not agree with. In fact, it happens quite a lot, so I've rounded up some of the most unpopular opinions I have on books. Quick disclaimer, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If you disagree with me, that's great, but please respect my opinion just as I vow to respect yours. Now, let's get under way!
Please beware, this post may contain spoilers.
- I did not like the Mortal Instruments Series by Cassandra Clare.
I'd heard so much about the Mortal Instruments Series before I had even read it. It was an equal amount of good and bad feedback, so I can't say that it swayed my mind either way before I picked it up, but it was definitely a series that people were talking about. I was apprehensive at first, because books with a crazy amount of hype can sometimes end up being disappointing, but after I saw the movie, I thought I'd give it a go. Never the less, I read the first two books and ultimately felt as though the series wasn't for me. At the grand old age of 25, I can't help but think I'm not exactly the target audience anyway.
- I liked Harry Potter and the Cursed Child.
I would like to lay a foundation before I go into my explanation of this. The Cursed Child is a play, not a novel, and therefore should not be compared to Rowling's original works, as it is a completely different medium to the Potter books. Not only is it a different medium, scripts are supposed to be bare and factual, because the play comes to life when you see it performed, with costumes, lighting, staging and props etc. You're really only getting a fifth of the experience when you read a play. I have been fortunate enough to see The Cursed Child performed live and enjoyed it much more than I did when I read it, because I was getting the whole experience, the whole vision that Rowling has co-created. Finally, the point I would like to finish on, is that the any spin offs from the Harry Potter series will be destined to be unpopular. We've spent ten years theorising what happened after Harry said goodbye to his children at King's Cross, and the result of whatever JK Rowling created next would not please everyone. I'm just thankful we have more produce from the Potter-verse to get excited about.
- I liked that Tris died at the end of the Divergent Series.
Everyone I have spoken to about the ending of Allegiant has been up in arms about Roth's decision to kill off Tris Prior, rather than go for a happily ever after ending that we craved for her and Four. With the Divergent series, Roth has never been about sticking to the status quo when it comes to the Young Adult genre, for example, her books don't include a love triangle for the main character, which has been one of the most overused tropes in the genre. Tris dying at the end of Allegiant fits with the character arc that Roth set up for Tris since the start of Divergent. Tris had been searching since the day of the Aptitude Test what it meant to be "selfless", something which she struggled with on a daily basis being born and raised in the Abnegation faction. Ultimately, Tris released that selflessness and bravery aren't all that different. So Tris sacrificing herself for the good of Chicago, so that others may live free from the Bureau, is the perfect send off for the character, and brings Tris's arc, quite literally, to a close.
- I thought The Maze Runner films were better than the books.
I read all three of The Maze Runner books and have seen the two films that have currently been released, and it's safe to say, I prefer the films. I know that sentiment is practically book-lover blasphemy but it's the truth. I think a lot of what was weak about the original books was erased or changed in the films, and I think that Wes Ball, who directed both The Maze Runner film and The Scorch Trials film, made, not only great adaptations, but also great science fiction and dystopian films.
- I like John Green's books and style of writing.
John Green was the first author I read before heavily getting into the YA genre. I read Looking for Alaska back in 2011, and then read The Fault in Our Stars in 2012 along with Paper Towns, and Abundance of Katherines and Will Grayson, Will Grayson in quick succession. I found his writing, although at times repetitive in themes and structure, to be very poetic, lyrical and philosophical, which is just my taste. I've noticed in reviews that a few readers have found him to be pretentious, which I can understand, but for me, his writing really speaks to a part of my soul, and I'll always treasure his books as they opened the door to the YA genre, and widened my reading tastes.
So these are my unpopular bookish opinions! Do you agree with me on any of these points? Or do you disagree? I'm happy to start a judgement free civil conversation in the comments!

subset: commoncrawl


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Rubio and Ryan, both arguably better positioned than Jindal, are also competing for the mantle of the high-energy, forward-thinking conservative. POLITICO has learned both will unveil new policy plans at an awards dinner of the Jack Kemp Foundation in early December: Ryan will begin a new push on a more modern approach to alleviating poverty, focused on education; Rubio will lift the curtain on an economic empowerment message, heavy on college affordability and workforce training.
That upcoming duet is one of the clearest signs that this presidential race is beginning as early as any in history.
Not to be outdone, Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.), son of Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) and heir to his father's libertarian following, is now on the record exploring a run that will focus heavily on returning power to the states. In a post-election interview with POLITICO, Paul said he wants to find common ground with liberal Democrats on softer marijuana laws and help create an eventual pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants…
POLITICO has also learned that Rick Santorum is telling friends he wants to run again. Texas Gov. Rick Perry has said publicly that he might, too, and has begun talking to donors and other top supporters like he means it. And Jeb Bush, the former Florida governor with strong credentials on education and winning back Hispanics, has told advisers he will sit back to see how things unfold over the next year before deciding whether to finally give it a go.


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Switching unit for conductive sensors
Nivotester FTW325
Easy wiring with terminal blocks
Configurable sensitivity range
Intrinsically safe signal circuit EEx ia IIC for using sensors in
hazardous areas
Specs at a glance
Function Switching unit Product Liquids ≥ 5 µS/cm Approval
ATEX II (1) GD EEx ia
CSA IS Cl.I,II,III Div.1
FM IS Cl.I,II,III Div.1
Feeding sensors Conductive rod or rope sensors
Nivotester FTW325
Product / Version Price / pcs. in USD Order code Approval Power Supply 1 to 3 4 to 10 11+ Non-hazardous area 85-253VAC 193.- 180.- 170.- FTW325-A2A1A 20-30VAC/20-60VDC 193.- 180.- 170.- FTW325-A2B1A ATEX II (1) G [Ex ia Ga] IIC, WHG ATEX II (1) D [Ex ia Da] IIIC, WHG 85-253VAC 255.- 237.- 225.- FTW325-C2A1A 20-30VAC/20-60VDC 255.- 237.- 225.- FTW325-C2B1A
Product / Version Price / pcs. in USD Order code Housing Field, R4 182x180x165, 5xM20, PC Protection housing Minitec. Synthetic housing with transparent cover. Protection IP66. 4x22.5mm / 2x45mm. Usage: FTL825. 103.82 52010132
Prices valid until 31.12.2020 in USD per unit (not including shipping and applicable sales tax). See
Endress+Hauser Terms and Conditions
Is this Liquipoint level switch not the perfect match for your application?
People who bought this also watched
The Nivotester FTW325 can be used for overspill protection (WHG), pump dry running protection or as a two-point control for pumps. Sensors such as the Liquipoint T FTW31/FTW32 can be connected to the FTW325. Multipoint detection for up to five measuring points is possible by using 3 Nivotester FTW325s.
The intrinsically safe signal input of the limit switch Nivotester FTW325 is galvanically isolated from the mains and the output. The Nivotester supplies the conductivity probes with an alternating current via a two or three-wire line and monitors its voltage. If the product reaches the switch point of the probe, the voltage between the probe and Nivotester is reduced. The output relays at the Nivotester switch depending on the set failsafe mode. Two yellow LEDs on the front panel of the Nivotester indicate the relay switch status.
Application Example
Technical dataInput
Measured variable Depending on the setting selected, the limit signal is triggered at a minimum or maximum level Measuring range Three resistance ranges can be set with DIL switches; 0.1 to 1.0 kΩ; 1.0 to 10.0 kΩ; 10.0 to 200.0 kΩ Input signal Input galvanically isolated from power supply and output Type of protection [EEx ia] IICOutput Output signal Relay output: one floating changeover contact for the level alarm Alarm relay Floating changeover contact for fault reporting, can be switched as second level relay Switching delay 0.5 s; 2.0 s; 6.0 s when relay energized Switching power of relay contacts
U~ max. 253 V;
I~ max. 2 A;
P~ max. 500 VA at cos φ ≥ 0.7;
U– max. 40 V;
I– max. 2 A;
P– max. 80 W
Function indicators Light emitting diodes for operation (gn), fault (rd), level alarm 1 (ye) and level alarm 2 (ye) light up when level relay is energizedPower supply Supply voltage
85 to 253 V AC, 50/60 Hz;
20 to 30 V AC / 20 to 60 V DC, max. 60 mA
Power consumption
AC-version maximum 4.5 VA
DC-version maximum 1.2 VA (at Umin 20 V)Operating conditions
Ambient temperature For individual mounting -20 to +60 °C for series mounting without lateral spacing -20 to +50 °C (-4 to +122 °F) Storage temperature –25 to +85 °C (–13 to +185 °F) (preferably at +20 °C/+68 °F) Installation in protective housing –20 to +40 °C (–4 to +104 °F) Ingress Protection IP 20 EMC Interference emission to EN 61326; electrical equipment Class B; interference immunity to EN 61326; Annex A (industrial) and NAMUR recommendation NE 21 (EMC)Electrical connection Connection line two core, screening not required Line resistance max. 25 Ω per core Cross-section max. 1×2.5 mm² or 2×1.5 mm²Approvals Ex approval ATEX II (1) GD [EEx ia] IIC
CSA IS Cl.I,II,III Div.1
FM IS Cl.I,II,III Div.1
Dimensions (in mm)
Electrical connection
More documents for FTW325


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Desert Bulldogs in Palm Springs
AKC English Bulldogs
palm springs bulldogs
desert bulldogs
desert bulldog
english bulldog
puppies bullies
AKC PEDIGREE and misc..
Past Bullies Slideshows
5 Things NOT to do with
Is a Bulldog for you?
Why Bulldog cost so much
Heat Stroke
Heat Stroke/exhaustion in Bulldogs & sudden
Every dog is a potential victim of heat exhaustion, but the shorter breathing system of the Bulldog is what puts them at such very strong risk for heat stroke. Shorter airway means less possibility of cooling the air which the dogs draws into its body. Dogs do not sweat. Their only means of reducing built-up body heat is by panting. The leading cause of heat exhaustion, and its advancing into heat stroke; is leaving a dog in a hot car, but there are other things that cause it like the loss of electric in your home on a hot day while yoru at work,ect . Even on a mild day (75-80 degrees), the temperature inside a car can raise up to 130 degrees rather quickly. Leaving a window slightly open will not prevent heat buildup.
Leaving a dog in a car on a warm day is a risk to the dog's life. Remember this saying - "Cars can kill in warm weather".
There are many variables in triggering a dog to experience heat exhaustion; the dog's physical condition, its age, its coat length, its breed, and its climatization to heat. An older, couch-potato, "snuggle the air conditioner" dog will have less tolerance to the heat than a young, romp outside all day, adolescent. Both the very young and very old dogs are among the highest risk categories. All Bulldogs, no matter how well they breath, or how active they are, are at risk from Heat Stroke.
Take the pet's temperature rectally if possible. A normal tempature is between 101-102 degree. A body temperature of about 104 degrees or higher is probable evidence for heat stroke. Place your pet in a tub of cool running water or spray with a hose being sure the cool water contacts the skin and doesn't simply run off the coat. Thoroughly wet the belly and inside the legs. In extreme cases use a ice pack under the neck andfront leg pits. Take a rectal temperature if possible to know when to stop cooling. A safe temperature is below 103 degrees to stop the cooling process.
The first signs of heat exhaustion:
a) Excessive panting
b) The skin on the inside of the ears becomes flushed and red.
Heat Exhaustion can progress in to Heat Stroke, as indicated by:
a) Weakness
b) Staggering
c) Fainting - loss of consciousness Heat stroke is an emergency situation. If your dog shows signs of heat stroke, you must cool him down as rapidly as possible. Don't wait for veterinary treatment. Heat Stroke is an Emergency - Treat the dog NOW! DO NOT try to force your dog to drink. His swelling airways can cause any liquid he takes in to be regurgitated and possibly aspirated into his lungs. However if a dogs temperature is 105 or higher rub a piece of ice on his tongue, 10 seconds on, 10 seconds off. Hose the dog down with cool water - not cold. Apply an ice pack to the dog, and soaked towels or any other form of fabric to their body.
If at all possible, get him into a tub of cool water -- again, cool - not cold! However, in an extreme emergency if cold is all there is, use it. If none of this is working, a cool water enema can help to cool the dog internally. Be careful not to induce to rapidly, or with water cooler than a few degrees below body temp, or you can put your dog into serious shock. As your dog is panting, his airways are swelling, causing him to pant harder yet again. You need to break this cycle. Children's allergy treatment Benadryl can be administered by mouth from dropper. Consult your vet in advance, or by phone is necessary, for exact dosage. Better still is to obtain a supply of injectible Benadryl to keep on hand. Do not stop treatment until your dog's body temperature is below 103. As soon as the dog's internal temperature has stabilized at a near normal level transport the dog to your vet. Heat stroke can leave permanent damage.
NONE of the above treatments are substitutions for veterinary care -- whenever possible, do them enroute to the very closest veterinary clinic. Many dogs will play until they drop. You must supervise the games, and determine when it is time to stop. During hot weather limit your dog's time outside. Be sure that there is a shaded area for your dog to rest in and that your dog has a constant supply of clean water. Never, EVER underestimate your dog's susceptibility to heat stroke. Limit their exposure to temperatures which you might personally find only mildly hot, be conscious of your dog's proximity to hot pavement, NEVER leave your Bulldog in a locked car in even mild weather, and always allow them lots of access to fresh water, shade, and cool areas to escape from heat.
Prevention and Preparation
Of course, the main weapon in prevention of heat stroke is common sense. As we outlined above, be alert to your dog's actions and responses, and be aware of the fact that what may seem like temperate weather for you may be entirely too hot for your dog. Limit activities in hot weather, avoid contact with pavement and concrete, and provide access to shade, fresh water and cooler areas indoors. There are several good cool coats and cool packs on the market to help your dog maintain a lower body temperature. Pet stores carries a full line of cool bandanas, coats, wraps, mats and collars, all made with an absorbent nontoxic polymer crystals that can stay cool for days without needing refrigeration. Take a look at their selection for more information.
What if you have lost power to your home, or the air conditioning has went out on a hot day:?
Simple follow the cooling procedures above to keep your dog cool. Plenty of fresh water will help. Also you may want to fill a tub 1/3 the way full and allow your dog to rest in it, a cool tile floor will help the dog and you can even spread a bag of ice on the tile floor so they can arrange and adjust to there desire to keep them cool. You may also get a few buckets of ice and a fan, aim the fan down on the buckets of ice and that will cool the temperature down a great deal in the home, close all windows, bring the shades down over any window in your bathroom to keep the sun out and make it dim in the room, turn fans on, allow the water in the tub to be there and the ice buckets. This will keep things much cooler.
You may also take the dog for a ride in an air conditioned car, go to a pet store with your dog and walk around a few hours in the cool store, go to your vets, board the dog at your vets, even a police station will usually allow you to sit in the lobby with your dog. You can also go to a friends home or relatives place, ask a co worker to allow your dog to stay for a short time, or rent a hotel room for the night! There is many options to you. Keep them Bulls cool!
Create a Free Website


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Thought I would draw your attention to another competition at least partly inspired by the AI Challenge.
Its a real time squad capture the flag type game and currently supports python.
I have seen one of the earlier versions of starter bots games in the player and it looks very interesting.
Full disclosure, I don't work for aigamedev.com, but am friends with a few of the guys working on this.


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LOS ANGELES - One of Hollywood's biggest and best-paid stars is supporting President Barack Obama's call for higher taxes on the country's top earners.
Will Smith said while promoting "Men In Black III" last week that he supports the move.
"I'm very supportive of that idea," Smith told The Associated Press in an interview. "America has been fantastic to me. I have no problem paying whatever I need to pay to keep my country growing."
Obama has proposed that everyone earning $1 million a year or more should pay at least 30 percent of their income in taxes. One research group said the change would affect around 210,000 taxpayers.
Vanity Fair has reported that Smith was paid an estimated $20 million for "Men In Black III."


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Lewisburg Printing Invests with a manroland R900 XXL Press
LEWISBURG, TN—February 12, 2013—manroland Inc. is pleased to announce that the installation of the Lewisburg Printing six-color, 73˝ R900 XXL machine from manroland inc. is almost complete. The new press will complement an existing six-color, 73˝ Roland that was purchased in 2008.
Lewisburg Printing is a fourth generation family owned company that specializes in serving local, national and international clientele from the corrugated packaging, point-of-purchase, retail, manufacturing, food processing, services and educational markets.
The new Lewisburg R906-8 LV XXL has a full compliment of innovative automation features, including InlineColorPilot, which is able to read/control density values of the printing without removing sheets from the press during production. There are a host of QuickChange features on the press including QuickChange Job Plus, QuickChange Color Plus, QuickChange Infeed,
QuickChange Surface and QuickChange Coating to speed up the makeready and job changeover process.
To supplement the Select UV Dryer Lewisburg selected Ink Mist Extraction and a 3rd wash line. Also included are Automatic Plate Loading (APL), Telepresence (remote diagnostic and maintenance software), oK Balance and Low coverage stabilization software.
"This investment, along with the other recent super large format orders, builds upon the recent success the new manroland has achieved over the last year," states Managing Director, Michael Mugavero. "With our new and used press sales, PRINTVALUE advances via Future Proof upgrades and major relocation projects for customer's existing presses, we believe the North American market now sees a reinvigorated manroland that is perfectly positioned to service our customers. Let us show you how the manroland Sheetfed Team can assist you 'Future Proof' your business and achieve your goals."
About manroland sheetfed
manroland sheetfed employs around 1,000 people at the HQ in Offenbach, Germany and over 2,000 staff worldwide, in over 40 subsidiaries. For more information about manroland sheetfed, visit www.manroland-sheetfed.com.
Source: manroland.


text:
December 2, 2009
Guests: Rep. Jack Murtha, Rep. Mike Pence; Howard Fineman, Bob Herbert, Mark McKinnon
CHRIS MATTHEWS, HOST: Nobody's happy.
Let's play HARDBALL.
Good evening. I'm Chris Matthews in Washington. Leading off tonight:
Fire on the left, fire on the right. Did he make the case? It's not hard to find criticism of President Obama's speech last night on Afghanistan. Democrats don't want to send more troops and Republicans don't like talk about setting a date for withdrawal. We're going to talk to lawmakers on both sides of this fight at the top of the show.
Plus, the White House party crashers story got more interesting. NBC News's Savannah Guthrie obtained e-mails between the couple and a Pentagon employee, Michele) Jones, that suggest Jones was at least trying to get tickets to the dinner. The big question, why it happened. And late this afternoon, we just got word here that the White House staff is accepting responsibility for not doing everything they could to make sure that those people did not get in the other night. In fact, they're going to make sure that from now on, White House staff are posted at the entranceways to the White House, alongside the Secret Service, to check off the list of people invited properly to the White House. So a big development there this afternoon.
Plus Mike Huckabee's troubles got a bit worse today. The coordinator for his political action committee in Arkansas just resigned over Huckabee's granting of clemency back in the year 2000 to a man who went on to kill four policemen out in Washington state last week. Did the race for the GOP next time just get shaken up a bit? Does this give Sarah Palin the right field all to herself?
Also, gay marriage fails in a state where advocates thought they had a real shot, New York state. That's in the "Politics Fix" tonight.
And check out this case of chair-throwing politics. Wow! It's not a fight over health care or Afghanistan, just a parliamentary session gone down bad in Argentina. We'll have that in the "Sideshow."
But first, I've gotten some very tough calls from parents of cadets and from former cadets at West Point about my saying last night that the president had gone to speak up there to maybe the enemy camp. I was talking about the skepticism I saw on the faces in the crowd as President Obama spoke, also, of course, about how West Point was where President Bush went in 2002 to make his most hawkish speech before the Iraq war.
Now, I've heard too many politicians say things like, Oh, that was taken out of context, to explain something they wish they hadn't said. Let me just say to the cadets, their parents, former cadets and everyone who cares about this country and those who defend it. I used the wrong words, and worse than that, I said something that is just not right. For that, I deeply apologize.
As those who watch me regularly probably got right away, my point was that the military up at West Point was probably a skeptical audience for President Obama, given his strong position against the war in Iraq and generally more dovish image. I was wrong to make that conclusion based on the lack of applause or apparent enthusiasm in the ranks of officers and cadets last night. Cadets, one former cadet and a friend of mine just told me, aren't supposed to show that kind of reaction to a speaker. He, a former cadet, reminded me that soldiers, including those now in training to face the enemy, want wars to be fought effectively and ended as quickly as possible. I had no reason to assume that the cadets at West Point or their officers who were present last night are more hawkish than the president.
People who have watched me over the years know, I think, of my strong devotion to this country and strong gratitude toward those who serve in the military. It's because our military is so good and true, I want the civilians who make the policies and set the missions to get them right in this country's best possible interest. And by the way, it's something we're allowed to argue about in this country. Whenever I meet someone with a service record, I always say, "Thank you for your service." They know I say it and I hope they know I mean it.
Now to President Obama and the criticism he's facing from both the left and the right. A few minutes ago, I spoke with Democratic congressman Jack Murtha of Pennsylvania, chairman of the subcommittee on defense appropriations.
Mr. Murtha, the president wants 30,000 more troops to go to Afghanistan and basically get the job done and begin to withdraw them a year-and-a-half from now. Does that make sense to you?
REP. JACK MURTHA (D-PA), APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE: Well, what I'm concerned about is not the strategy, because I was just in Afghanistan over the weekend and I think it's probably the reverse of what we did in Iraq. They're trying to help people. They're trying to not kill people.
But what I worry about is contractors. I worry about the cost. And I worry about the fact that I'm not sure that there's as much a threat to our national security as they're indicating. So we're going to look into that before we-we're going to have hearings on the money. You know, our debt, our national debt, Chris, is going to be $800 billion, the interest on the debt. So you know, we've got a lot of concerns here and we're-and the president said last night in a little meeting we had before he made his TV appearance, he said we're going to work something out on the pay. So I'm looking forward to trying to work that out.
MATTHEWS: Well, Mr. Murtha, you're a combat veteran of Vietnam. Do you think it makes sense to send our forces over there to defeat the Taliban in Afghanistan so that that will somehow help defeat the al Qaeda forces that are in Pakistan? It strikes me as a kind of a Rubik's cube, how this works. How does it work, as you see it?
MURTHA: Well, this is the very thing that we're worried about. The al Qaeda is not only in Pakistan, they're all over the world. And the Taliban are actually people that are-worked with the al Qaeda. But I just-I worry that there's not that threat to us.
You know, all of us want to make sure there's no threat to the United
States. All of us realize that we're in Afghanistan in the first place
because of a threat to the United States. But I'm not convinced the threat
in Afghanistan is the key. And if we can't get to Pakistan-and I think
I hope the president is going to address this-is make sure that the Pakistanis are doing everything they can. And then you got to work with India to reduce some of the pressure on the Pakistanis.
So this is a very complicated thing and very costly operation. It costs, we estimate, $400 for a gallon of fuel. And there's only 10 percent literacy rate in Afghanistan. So you know, we got a lot of problems facing us, 104,000 contractors already in Afghanistan, in addition to the 68,000 troops. We're going to have more troops, Chris, than the Russians had in Afghanistan.
MATTHEWS: Do you think the American people should be taxed more to pay for this war, this surge?
MURTHA: I think we should have been paying for the war the whole time. I voted against every one of Bush's tax cuts because I felt we should have been paying for the last war. The deficit is a real concern to me, the fact we're losing our economic edge all over the world because of the money we're spending overseas when we've got so many needs in this country. So we've got a ways to go. There's a lot of consternation on the floor. There are a lot of people that are concerned about the direction it's going.
As I told Rahm Emanuel last night as I left that little meeting, I said, Rahm, the president did a good a job as he could do, but I'm still not convinced that we need to send these troops and that there's an achievable goal. And how do we measure that goal? Those are the things that worry me.
MATTHEWS: Well, when you read the newspaper articles that leaks out, you hear that the vice president, Joe Biden, and Rahm Emanuel are on one side, and you hear that the former first lady, Hillary Clinton, the secretary of state, and the military are on the other side, would you have been with Biden in arguing for a different course here, had you been on the inside?
MURTHA: One of the things that they're doing in talking to General McChrystal, they're putting much more emphasis on training the Afghans. And this is something that Joe Biden was interested in, in the first place. But-and they hadn't been doing that. They only had 50 percent of the people that they needed to train the Afghans. So I'm convinced that is a crucial part of it.
The other part that's just as important is how they treat the Afghans, how they treat them in order to win their respect, and so forth. But I said General McChrystal, General, there's no way you can do this. You're not going to have three years. You have a lot less time. And this was before the president made his decision. I said, If the president makes this decision to increase the troops, you've got a lot less time. The British general understood that. He was a two star working for General McChrystal.
MATTHEWS: Yes.
MURTHA: He said, We've got until the spring and we've got to show some progress.
MATTHEWS: Are you concerned that the more troops we've send to
Afghanistan, the higher the casualty rate? In fact, it's as high as it's -
it's higher than it's ever been. Could we be just creating, to put it bluntly, more targets over there for the Taliban and the IEDs?
MURTHA: Chris, historically, the British were forced out, the Russians were forced out. And there's more targets-the more troops you put out there, the more targets there are going to be.
But the main thing is, Is this essential to our national security? Is al Qaeda so dangerous that are affecting our national security? We're going to have hearings next week with the intelligence people and with the secretary of state and secretary of defense. So we're trying to make sure we cross every T. And then the cost of it-we're going to be careful about approving the money until we see exactly how much money the president is going to spend.
MATTHEWS: OK, thank you very much, U.S. Congressman Jack Murtha of Pennsylvania. Thank you, sir.
MURTHA: Nice talking to you, Chris.
MATTHEWS: Let's bring in right now Republican congressman Mike Pence of Indiana. He sits on the Foreign Affairs Committee. You just heard Jack Murtha on the appropriations subcommittee.
REP. MIKE PENCE ®, INDIANA: Hi, Chris.
MATTHEWS: What do you make, Congressman, of the charge-well, he made a pretty strong surmise, maybe, that he wonders whether Afghanistan's really in our essential national interest with regard to what we have to do in Pakistan. Do we essentially have to fight this war to its conclusion over there?
PENCE: Well, you know, let me say, you know, I thought one of the high points of the president's speech last night is that he did take the time to walk the American people back through the story of our military engagement in Afghanistan. The president said last year Afghanistan is a war of necessity. He took us all the way back to September the 11th, when we were attacked from that country. And you know, I don't think too many Americans are confused about whether or not al Qaeda or their previous hosts, the Taliban, represent a serious threat to the United States of America. And it's one of the reasons why, you know, Yesterday, despite my concern about the talk about timelines, and you know, artificial dates for withdrawal and war surtaxes, I commended the president for calling for reinforcements, and I'm grateful that he did so.
MATTHEWS: Well, what do you make of that basic arc of 30,000 more troops, speedily brought over there to serve the cause in the current counterinsurgency strategy of General McChrystal, but then already the word we are going to begin to draw down in the summer-in fact, in July of 2011? I mean, it doesn't-we all are in the Internet age. We can only assume that the Taliban learned about that within seconds.
PENCE: Right.
MATTHEWS: And they're going, Hoopla, we just have to hold out until, you know, some time in the summer of '11, and then it's ours. Are you worried about that?
PENCE: Yes. Well, I think-I think it's-I think it's-it's very problematic any time in a field of battle to tell the enemy when you will quit the fight. And I raised that issue with Secretary Gates today at the Foreign Affairs hearing.
MATTHEWS: Yes.
PENCE: He himself, Chris, as I'm sure you know, as recently as September, spoke against timelines and exit strategies. I rather liked your characterization last night if-if-you know, that the Taliban would put up, I think you said, a Post-it note and say, Well, if their surge is beginning now, then our surge will begin in July of 2011.
MATTHEWS: Yes.
PENCE: What we ought to do, what Secretary Gates said as recently as September, is we ought to-we ought to make a commitment to win, provide our soldiers the reinforcements that they need and send an unambiguous message that we are going to achieve a decisive victory and get our troops home safe as soon as possible.
MATTHEWS: Congressman, along that lines, here is John McCain, Senator John McCain, at that hearing you talked about with Secretary Gates. Let's listen.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN ®, ARIZONA: You either have a winning strategy and do as we did in Iraq and then once it succeeded, then we withdraw or we-as the president said, we will have a date of beginning withdrawal of July 2011. Which is it? It's got be one or the other. It's got to be the appropriate conditions or an arbitrary date. You can't have both.
ROBERT GATES, DEFENSE SECRETARY: As I suggested, we will have a thorough review in December 2010. If it appears that the strategy's not working and that we are not going be able to transition in 2011, then we will take a hard look at the strategy itself.
MATTHEWS: Congressman, I said something else last night-I want to know if you agree with that-I don't think you will, which is that you can't repot (ph) Afghanistan. It is in that part of the world. You know, we all grew up with reading about the Khyber Pass and we know about the Pashtuns and...
PENCE: Right.
MATTHEWS: ... and their attitude towards the West. They're very war-like. They're very independent. They're renegades. It's not a unified country, really. Do we really have a chance of changing the nature of that country in the reasonable near term, like five years even? Can we do it over that period or can we even-Jack Murtha was raising the question, we might be able to make a change in 10 years, but the American people will not submit to a 10-year war plan. Your view.
PENCE: Well-well, I think-I-you know what? I think-I think we are talking about an extraordinary people when we talk about the Afghan people. You know, I've been to Afghanistan several times. I've been to the Khyber Pass. This is a proud and independent nation.
And I don't think we really need to change the character of Afghanistan. Rather, what we need to do is-is-and the president alluded to this-we need to stand up the civilian and domestic security forces sufficient to protect themselves, and we need to do everything possible on the front end to defeat the Taliban and to defeat al Qaeda before we head home.
I just-I really do believe that the lessons of September the 11th, and frankly, the lessons of "Charlie Wilson's War" is that...
MATTHEWS: Yes.
PENCE: ... that we need to finish the job there. We need to give our soldiers first and then the Afghan people the resources to stand up against the extremists of the Taliban and al Qaeda. I'm believing that the counterinsurgency strategy the president embraced last night will work if we give it a chance in Afghanistan every bit as much, Chris, as it worked in Iraq.
PENCE: We're employing the basic surge strategy that did turn things around in Iraq in 2007. And I appreciate the president for embracing that. I just hope we give it a chance to succeed.
MATTHEWS: I appreciate you for coming on tonight, U.S. Congressman Mike Pence of Indiana.
PENCE: Thanks, Chris.
MATTHEWS: Coming up: The White House admits it did not do all it could do to help the Secret Service the other night at keeping the wrong people out. There you got a look at them. Interesting development now. They say they're now going to be standing guard at every social occasion alongside the Secret Service. Big development. Just broke late this afternoon, 20 minutes before we went on the air. We'll have the full story with Savannah Guthrie.
You're watching HARDBALL, only on MSNBC.
JOSEPH BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm, you know, new to this sort of social scene in Washington, having commuted all these years. So I just assumed they were part of, you know, the social fabric of Washington. But I didn't know who they were until I saw them on television.
MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL. That was Joe Biden explaining the advantages of commuting to Washington from Delaware all these years and not knowing people like these and knowing that they were basically crashers. The vice president's talking about, of course, that couple that crashed the White House state dinner for the president of India the other night-the prime minister of India.
And late today, the White House deputy chief of staff sent out this memo. It just got out, by the way, a couple minutes ago, titled-I love this formality-"Review of White House procedures during the state dinner and new guidelines." There it is. Quote, "After reviewing our actions, it is clear that the White House did not do everything we could have done to assist the United States Secret Service in ensuring that only invited guests enter the complex. White House staff were walking back and forth outside between the checkpoints, helping guests, and were available to the Secret Service throughout the evening. But clearly, we can do more and we will do more."
Well, where is this going right now? Savannah Guthrie's NBC White House correspondent and Eugene Robinson is a Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist worthy of this topic tonight!
Savannah, we now-we now what Jim Messina does for a living. The deputy chief of staff got to put this baby out, not the chief of staff.
Your thoughts on what they are up to now.
SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, NBC CORRESPONDENT: Well, this has been an interesting development, because, earlier in the week-in fact, I think it was Monday-the first opportunity all of us had to ask the White House about this on camera, Robert Gibbs made a point, really, to say that they weren't examining their procedures, that the Secret Service had acknowledged the error here, that it was a Secret Service problem alone, essentially, and that they weren't going to do a review of any social secretary procedures could have exacerbated the problem or could help them, on the other hand.
But, by the next day, when Gibbs was on "The Today Show," he had softened that a bit, saying, of course we're going to look at all the procedures, and we want to be helpful, so the Secret Service can do its job.
And now, on the third day, we have this from Deputy Chief of Staff Jim Messina saying, we are going to have new procedures and we're going to put social secretary staff right at the checkpoints. They will be responsible for checking guests off the list.
Now, to be fair, the social staff were around. They were mingling around in between the checkpoints and were available. But, obviously, there was a breakdown here, one that may have not happened perhaps-speculating-if there had been social secretary staff right there at the checkpoint.
MATTHEWS: What did the White House say? Have they said anything about the report we had here right after it happened from Roxanne Roberts, who covers these kinds of events for "The Washington Post," saying that, the evening of, she went up to two White House staffers and told both of them that there were interlopers in the room. And what-how do they explain it?
How do they explain the fact that they got this advanced warning of these crashers?
GUTHRIE: Well, as I said, up until basically today, they have really been putting off those kinds of questions, and kind of underscoring that it was a Secret Service error.
And there is no question about that, Chris. I mean, the Secret Service has acknowledged one of-at least one of its officers passed these people through having looked at the actual guest list, not seen them on it, but then passed it to the next checkpoint.
The Salahis themselves say they had their I.D.s checked three different times and still were allowed to go through. So, basically, up until this point, what the White House has done is really underscored the fact that this was really a Secret Service error.
This is the first acknowledgement really that the social secretary's office may have played a role here.
MATTHEWS: Right.
Well, what I find interesting, as always, is power.
EUGENE ROBINSON, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.
MATTHEWS: And I see here, if you read this memorandum that came out from the deputy chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel's chief of staff-below him is Chief-is Deputy Chief of Staff Jim Messina.
Jim Messina says-quote-"I met with the office of the social secretary, which has the lead on the event, as well as other departments, to review their procedures," thereby establishing that the decisions and the discipline will come from the top, I think.
ROBINSON: Yes, right, that it will come from the top. This is-this is embarrassing. This is a glitch. You can kind of understand how it might happen at a first state dinner and this and that.
But it really shouldn't have happened and it shouldn't happen again. And doesn't it make sense to have someone from the social secretary's office there with the list in case, for example, some huge Democratic donor forgot his driver's license, OK? So, you could get him in.
MATTHEWS: Yes. OK.
MATTHEWS: Let me just suggest how-let me try to remind you, because you are a pro, an old pro, like me, and I'm almost as much of a pro as you are from a different perspective.
Savannah, it is issues like this that it's been my experience-I want your reaction to this-that seem small to the public that cause a real problem down the road. And it seems like they were smart to deal with it today.
Back when I worked at a White House, the Jimmy Carter White House, Bert Lance got into trouble in the beginning. Everyone circled the wagons, around him, including Jody Powell, the late Jody Powell. And everybody got really ticked at the press for continuing to pound on this issue.
GUTHRIE: Yes.
MATTHEWS: There became a personal rift between the people working for the president and the people covering the president, even though it seemed like a small issue at the time.
Is this like that, and this is why they had to pop the boil today, why Messina and probably Rahm Emanuel had to move and smarten out the operation?
GUTHRIE: Well, I think so.
And, frankly, by the posture that we had on Monday, where they were taking absolutely no responsibility whatsoever, not even making the quite unremarkable statement they will look at every procedure, it kind of extended the story by a few days. And instead of the focus being on this couple that allegedly crashed the party or even the Secret Service that had acknowledged blame, people starting asking questions, well, what about the social secretary? Well, why was she a guest at the dinner?
There was a tough piece in "The Washington Post" today about the social secretary. So, I think they all recognized, look, perhaps we played a role here. We don't have to say it is all our fault, but we can do better.
And I think that is what you're seeing here, Jim Messina, the deputy chief of staff, trying to get a lid on this...
MATTHEWS: Right.
GUTHRIE: ... and try to get this story behind them. There is a lot of frustration here that we are all still talking about it.
MATTHEWS: I know.
Well, somebody made it a big call today. Again, back to an important point, earlier today, we got the word that the White House had basically used executive privilege to deny Desiree Rogers, the social secretary...
ROBINSON: Right.
MATTHEWS: ... the option, even personal option, of going to the Hill to testifying before the Bennie Thompson committee tomorrow.
ROBINSON: Right.
MATTHEWS: So, that would have been the big story in your paper tomorrow and across the country.
ROBINSON: Exactly.
MATTHEWS: And here tonight...
ROBINSON: And, here, they have preempted that story. They have jumped ahead of that story...
MATTHEWS: By fixing the problem.
ROBINSON: Exactly.
MATTHEWS: So, somebody is alive there. The lights are on and somebody is home.
ROBINSON: The lights are on.
ROBINSON: They didn't want that story.
MATTHEWS: Anyway, that-by the way, that piece today was about Desiree Rogers, who will probably continue to get good press, now that this issue has been dealt with.
Savannah Guthrie very calmly on the story here, but I know there is a tempest at the White House these days.
Thank you, Savannah Guthrie, from the White House for NBC News. Thank you very much.
And, Eugene Robinson, thank you, sir, for handling this in Pulitzer fashion.
MATTHEWS: Up next: Google releases its list of the most buzz-worthy names of the past year, the names that people searched online and began to search less throughout the year. It's interesting. It's about how you drop in-in importance over the year. It is kind of painful, actually. It's sort of schadenfreude, as the Germans would say. We are going to jump to that in the "Sideshow."
MATTHEWS: Back to HARDBALL. Time for the "Sideshow."
First up: It is year-end list time. Google has just put out its review of the most buzz-worthy people and topics of 2009. Here's what they're calling the 15-minute list, the people who had their Andy Warhol episode of fame, albeit without meaning to.
Coming up at number four, John Edwards-news of the campaign affair only got worse in '09.
And, number three, Rod Blagojevich, old B-Rod. Look for him in 2010 as well, when he faces his corruption trial. Just ahead of B-Rod, South Carolina's and of course South America's Governor Mark Sanford. And taking the top rise, Bernie Madoff, Bernie Madoff, the man who came to symbolize corruption. Love that name, Madoff, as in made off with the money.
Google also put out a list of its fastest falling search terms. Some noteworthy politicians made this list of people who have gotten fewer searches of their name as the days have gone by.
At number five, Sarah Palin, though I will bet her stock is going to rise again soon. Nudging her out at number four, Barack Obama. And the fastest falling search term this year-you might have guessed it-John McCain.
Of course, all three of them ended their campaigns in 2008, which probably accounts for the loss of online interest.
Next, think the debate over health care is out of control? Check out this scene at a local parliament down in Argentina yesterday. Look at this. This fight broke out just after the legislature's presidential election. Members of the new president's own party were calling him a traitor, as most of his votes came from the other party.
Things got so bad, they had to call in riot police. I love-well, I don't love it, but, wow, what a picture.
Up next: Are Mike Huckabee's days as a presidential contender over? Is he Hucka-was? As Arkansas Governor Huckabee commuted the sentence of the guy who shot those police officers, all four of them, out in Washington State, and then got gunned down himself, so does that open the door for Sarah Palin on the right?
You are watching HARDBALL, only on MSNBC. Back in a moment.
MATT NESTO, CNBC CORRESPONDENT: I'm Matt Nesto with your CNBC "Market Wrap."
Stocks ending mixed today, the Dow slipping despite an upbeat report from the Federal Reserve-the Dow industrials down 19 points, the S&P up a fraction, the Nasdaq also up just nine points.
Stocks opened higher after a pair of private employment reports showed mild improvement on the jobs front. The Fed's Beige Book report shows a moderate uptick in consumer spending, homes sales, and construction. But the Dow moved lower as the dollar began to pick up lost ground intraday against the euro and the yen.
A dip in oil prices also weighing in on stocks, as America's-
Americans pinch their pennies, causing a modest buildup of inventories, but retailers mostly higher on a strong showing for sales over the Thanksgiving weekend.
Amazon up again after a tracking company said online spending on Cyber Monday was up 5 percent from a year ago.
And Verizon shares slightly higher, after AT&T dropped its lawsuit over the coverage maps in those new ads.
And that is it from CNBC. We are first in business worldwide-now back to HARDBALL.
MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL.
The murder of four police officers out in Washington State last weekend is a tragedy, of course. And while our thoughts remain focused on their families and their community and of course their own loss of life out, there is also a delicate political issue here for Mike Huckabee, who granted clemency to the now dead suspect who was shot by police and who is assumed to have been the person who committed those killings of those police officers.
He commuted his sentence for serious crimes back in 2000. And some conservative critics now are really hammering Huckabee. Is his political future over? Can he actually run for president in 2012, as he did before?
Mark McKinnon is a former campaign adviser to John McCain and much respected in his field. He also worked for George W. Bush. He's contributor to the fabulous Daily Beast.
Willie Horton comes to mind. It was Al Gore that first dug up that little sugarplum on-on Mike-Mike Dukakis, and sort of worked that against him. And, then, of course, the Republicans really lashed him with that issue back in '88 and helped George H. Walker Bush get elected president.
Is this guy going to be Willie Hortoned-Mike Huckabee-Mark McKinnon?
MARK MCKINNON, FORMER MEDIA ADVISER TO PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: He already is.
In fact-in fact, Rush Limbaugh is already equating Maurice Clemmons to Willie Horton and Mike Huckabee to Mike Dukakis.
Mike Huckabee probably has a great future as a-on FOX News or as a motivational speaker, but his career in politics is done. Stick a fork in him. In America today, given-the problem for this is-I mean, incident itself is bad enough, but there is a pattern. As governor, he granted clemency and pardons to over 1,000 prisoners, which is three times the number of pardons and clemencies granted by three former governors.
And so this is a problem. This would be a problem in a general election for Huckabee. But this will be a primary issue in the Republican primary, where law and order issues are really salient.
So, this is a real problem for Mike Huckabee. And it really-and, ironically, just a few days ago, polling came out that Huckabee was not only leading the Republican field, but he was within four points of President Obama. So, this is a spectacular fall.
MATTHEWS: Yes.
Is this considered a human fault? I mean, let's get down to this.
MATTHEWS: I remember, Norman Mailer, one of my heroes, as a writer, once helped John Henry Abbott get out of prison. He went and knifed somebody in a bar fight right after that.
Whenever you show some sort of Christian charity or whatever you want to call it to somebody who is basically stuck with a life sentence, you are basically carrying them the rest of their lives, aren't you? You are responsible for everything they do henceforth, aren't you? That's what going on here, isn't it?
MCKINNON: You really are. And absolutely.
And having worked for a number of governors, every one that I worked for says that these issues were the hardest-and death penalty issues were absolutely the hardest issues that they had to deal with.
And, clearly, Mike Huckabee has got a compassionate component to his -
to his thinking. And, you know, he is a deep Christian. And I'm sure that factored into a lot of his thinking. But it's precisely those things that create a practical political problem for him, when, in reality, you know, those may have been seemingly the right things to do at the time, at least I'm sure the-the victims of the shooting would disagree.
But that's what is tough about being a governor.
MATTHEWS: Well, his potential opponents are-his potential-excuse me-his potential opponents are circling.
Look at this. Tim Pawlenty, the former governor of-Is he still governor of Minnesota? -- told-still governor-told Laura Ingraham, our colleague over there on radio-quote-"I don't think I have ever voted for clemency. We have given out pardons for things after everybody has served out their term, but, again, usually for more minor offenses. But clemency? Certainly not. Commutation of sentences? Certainly not."
So, he put a knife in, basically. He said-you said, the fork is in. I think the knife is in for Pawlenty. These guys aren't going to give this guy-it looks like the competition has already begun. We haven't heard from Mitt Romney yet.
But this does clear-you are an expert. I want to ask you an expert's question. Does this clear the field on the right for Sarah Palin? I thought Huckabee was her biggest obstacle come the Iowa caucuses.
MCKINNON: It creates a huge opening and perhaps just the spiritual nudge that-that Sarah Palin talks about. She says that looks for doors opening to give her-you know, give her thoughts about what her next moves might be. And this might do just that.
MATTHEWS: Yes.
MCKINNON: But Mike Huckabee was soaking up a lot of that oxygen on the Christian right in the Iowa primaries. With him gone, there is a huge opening there now for Sarah Palin or somebody like Rick Santorum. But Sarah Palin obviously has got a great deal of attention right now and is likely to step into that...
MATTHEWS: Yes, but Huckabee is a smart fellow, Mark.
I mean, I want to give him a credit here, as he-as-as you say, he is headed out of the field, because didn't he say a while back, when the birthers were going after the president, saying he wasn't born in the country, he was somehow illegitimately a candidate and then illegitimately elected, he said to his conservatives, don't you think that Hillary Clinton would have found this out and used it against him if it were true? That is a tough way to make a point to a conservative audience. In other words, I'm not a birther, because I think Hillary Clinton is a lot smarter and tougher than you guys.
MCKINNON: Well, listen, that is part of why I like Mike Huckabee. I think he's a really entertaining guy. I think he actually has been a great elected official. He's been a great candidate. I think he is good for the Republican Party. He brings a lot of optimism and good policy ideas to the table. I think we'll miss him, but he ain't going to be there, Chris. I can guarantee you.
MATTHEWS: Here is what he said in his defense. He was on our colleague, Joe Scarborough's show the other day. He said, quote, "it really does show how sick our society has become that people are more concerned about a campaign three years from now than those grieving families in Washington State. It is disgusting, but people use anything as a political weapon."
I wonder if he isn't overstating-well, overstating what he already grew up with, which is politics ain't bean bag.
MCKINNON: Yes, this is just practical reality in American politics, Chris.
MATTHEWS: Let me ask you about the field, now that you've come in-you're always an expert, Mark McKinnon. The Republican field for president in 2012; you have included the name Scarborough on that list. I must say, that is fascinating. I think Joe is a hell of a communicator, should he change fields two years from now. What do you think? Why did you put him on that list as a potential? Do you think something that we don't know about? What do you think you know that we don't know? Is it just he's got the right stuff? What do you think?
MCKINNON: Well, I think he appeals to people like me. I think there are a lot of Republicans out there that aren't happy with the perspective field out there. I think he surprises folks with the position he takes. I think he is a genuine conservative, but he also takes moderate progressive positions. He doesn't just drink the Kool-Aid on a lot of issues. And I think he's a fairly independent thinker. He's got obvious media savvy.
I think he would light up the boards immediately if he were to take the step. I encourage him to do so.
MATTHEWS: You encourage him to do so? You want to run his campaign?
MCKINNON: Well, I would certainly be glad to hold the flag and encourage others.
MATTHEWS: I'm just teasing. I'm not teasing. I think it is very
interesting. Thank you Mark McKinnon. >
Up next, President Obama made the decision on Afghanistan. Now the hard work begins of selling the Afghan war on Capital hill to left, right and center. The independents are going to be tough too, not just the liberals. That is next on the politics fix. This is HARDBALL, only on MSNBC.
MATTHEWS: We're back. Time for the politics fix, with "Newsweek's" Howard Fineman, who is an MSNBC political analyst, and the "New York Times'" columnist Bob Herbert. Gentlemen, heavyweights for a heavyweight question. It looks to me, based upon our interviews tonight with Jack Murtha and Mike Pence, that this is going to be an odd campaign up on the Hill, the president having a tougher fight with the Democratic party, a somewhat easier fight with the Republican party. I just was watching that mayhem down in Argentina, where the president, in that local parliament, got elected by the other party and the chair throwing started.
I just wonder, are we going to see chair throwing, Bob Herbert, because the Democrats are enraged that a war is being prosecuted by their president, of their party, and the votes of the other party?
BOB HERBERT, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": I don't think we will see chair throwing. But you are right about the Democrats being upset. And liberals, especially, are angry. Barack Obama came to prominence essentially, fairly or unfairly-he came to prominence as an anti-war candidate. Now he always, you know, stressed that he was against-he said he was not against all wars. He was against dumb wars. He said Iraq was a dumb war. He did not characterize Afghanistan that way.
But I must say that people did not take-maybe they were projecting, but they did not take away from his candidacy the idea that he was going to escalate in Afghanistan the way he has chosen to do.
MATTHEWS: Even though he said he though we needed two to three more combat brigades during the campaign?
HERBERT: I think an awful lot of people were watching that campaign, enthralled with Obama, and hearing what they wanted to hear.
MATTHEWS: Right. Howard, is that true?
HOWARD FINEMAN, "NEWSWEEK": I agree with that completely. It is the war that made him. And it's another war that may unmake him here, because he really put a huge bet on here. However careful and grim and almost woeful his presentation was last night, in saying, look, we've got to do this. We don't like it. It is bloody. It is costly. But we've got to do it. And choosing the backdrop of West Point to actually speak to the left wing of his party. He wasn't really speaking to the soldiers there. He was speaking to the left wing of his own party.
You know, he set the stage for a lot of internal conflict. Talking to Democrats on the Hill today, he has a tough sell. They are going to send up the national security adviser for a secret briefing tomorrow in the basement of the Capitol with all senators.
MATTHEWS: What is the secret? This is interesting reporting, Howard. But what are the secrets they want to tell members of Congress the president won't tell us? The secret reason for war?
FINEMAN: My guess would be-and it is strictly conjecture on my part-that they are sending the national security adviser, General Jones, in there to talk about the semi-unspoken part of the strategy, which is Pakistan. I'm just guessing here. The ways in which what we do in Afghanistan can be helpful to us in Pakistan, because that is politically difficult to talk about in public, because of the sensitivities of the Pakistanis.
MATTHEWS: Yes, it is so tough to go to a parent or a loved one who has fallen in battle, Rob-I mean, Bob. I mean, it just seems so hard to say, your son or daughter was killed fighting the Taliban, so that the politicians in Islamabad, in the country next door, will get serious about fighting the people that attacked us on 9/11. It is a Rube Goldberg. I'm not a cartoonist, but I can imagine some weird cartoon where a punching bag hits this and some bucket falls over and that leads to something else. Maybe it's what got me so frustrated last night, this argument we are fighting one crowd so the other crowd will fight some other crowd.
HERBERT: It is incoherent, you are correct. I mentioned in a column that presidents are very seldom straight with the public-politicians, not just presidents, are very seldom straight with the public when it comes to warfare, I mean, the reasons, the ins and outs, the behind the scenes maneuvering and that sort of thing. Very seldom do they come out and tell you the straight truth.
So, for example, Obama was conveying two messages last night. One was that we're going to send 30,000 troops in there. The other is that this is allegedly the beginning of an exit strategy. Those are two messages that are just in conflict. I don't care what kind of contortions you go through trying to explain it. That's in conflict.
I would be very, very, very surprised if 2011 rolls around and the administration doesn't say, we told you when the president made his speech back in 2009 that he would make a decision based on what's going on on the grounds, that he said that there would be, perhaps, the beginning of an exit in 2011, but that determination will be made by the facts on the ground. I do not expect any kind of big deescalation in Afghanistan in 2011.
MATTHEWS: I agree. I think the people have this idea of July 2011 emblazoned in their heads right now, as the beginning of the end of this war.
FINEMAN: He said to begin-he said to begin, subject to further review.
HERBERT: Exactly.
FINEMAN: OK. First of all, I hate to make a joke out of such a serious topic, but the great Marx Brother movie, where Groucho sings the song, "Hello, I Must Be Going." This is like, "Hello, I Must Be Going." But you have to look at this in the framework of the 2012 election, which Obama, I guarantee you, has that clock ticking in his head. There will be some deescalation. Bob might be right. It's not going to be a big deescalation. But I guarantee you the movement of troops-the arrow is going to be out by the summer of 2012, if not the summer of 2011.
MATTHEWS: Quitting time is not a good argument for a war. You have to sort of say winning time. It's a hard one. I'm with you, Bob, because, I tell you, it's very hard to get juiced up about a war, I guess, especially if you have to fight one, that's already on the clock. It's already said, this is going to be over. So, you know, everybody knew their magic number in Vietnam. Now the whole Army is going to know the magic number, which is July 2011.
FINEMAN: Yes, but I think sort of the tone of the language of this has changed somewhat. It's less amount eradicating-although he does use the word-the president last night did use the word defeat al Qaeda.
MATTHEWS: Finally, after dismantle.
FINEMAN: Yes. But the tonality of it is not that we're ever going to eradicate them, but we're going to try to keep the pressure on them. There's a lot of language about keeping the pressure on. That doesn't sound like the kind of war that most Americans understand.
MATTHEWS: It reminds me how they say they're going to reduce the amount of ant hairs in your Hershey bars or some other candy product out there. Walter Cronkite once went on television and said, under a new, some new agriculture law, FDA law, there's only go to be so many animal follicles allowed in your candy. I'd like to know there are none in there. We'll be right back. Excuse me, Hershey Bars, my favorite candy. We'll be right back with Howard Fineman and Bob Herbert for more of the politics fix. You're watching HARDBALL, only on MSNBC.
MATTHEWS: We're back with Howard Fineman and Bob Herbert for more of the politics fix. Bob and Howard and I, we probably all agree that the younger generation has a different view on same-sex marriage than most people over 40. This country, if we were only composed of people under 40, it would probably pass. But that's not reality. Older people vote. Older people have influence. The New York State senate, same-sex marriage was just defeated 24 to 38, in a state that most people consider fairly liberal, your state, Bob.
HERBERT: Yes, New York is fairly liberal compared to other states. But when you start talking about legislatures and gay marriage, I mean, I think you can, for the most part, forget about it. I never thought that would pass in New York.
There's a point I would like to make. You know, New York State is in desperate fiscal trouble. It's right at the edge of a budget cliff. And the legislature up there in Albany cannot get its act together to deal with the state's financial problems. But it could get its act together to defeat this legislation. Very interesting, their priorities there.
MATTHEWS: Well, are they related at all, Howard? A lot of people think partners' benefits and all those things become issues.
FINEMAN: I don't think this was about economics. I think it's about culture. As Bob well knows, upstate New York is an entirely different universe from the city.
HERBERT: It sure is.
FINEMAN: This is one of the places where upstate legislators, who feel ignored and abused and led around by the power of downstate, can rebel. My guess would be, if you look at the map of New York State, most of the opposition was upstate, which is culturally still-even though it's become more Democrat-oriented more toward the Democratic party-
MATTHEWS: Here in D.C., we have a liberal community, as you know, Bob Herbert, on most social and economic issues. The D.C. City Council has moved already on this. And I guess they might have some Congressional review at some point on this. Clearly, this is a community we're in right now which is very pro-same-sex marriage. In fact, it's become a big issue, like so many issues have, with the Catholic church and its huge role in social services in this town.
HERBERT: Yes, it's huge. Washington is, I think, an anomaly when you start talking about legislatures in this country. It's very liberal and it is supporting gay marriage. But, you know, I think that politically the deck is stacked against it, which is why you have people like President Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and so many others who are out there on record as not being in favor of.
MATTHEWS: Howard?
FINEMAN: You look at the numbers, Chris. There are 31 states in this country that have, by referendum, gone on record through votes of the people saying they don't want same-sex marriage marriage. Six jurisdictions have it.
MATTHEWS: I have a question for everybody: is same-sex marriage a right or is it something that's up for the legislators and the population to vote on? I would think at some point along the road, the people pushing rightly or wrongly for gay marriage are going to say, this is a right; it's not up to vote. A lot of rights wouldn't be approved if you had a vote on them.
FINEMAN: Good luck with the current United States Supreme Court on that one.
MATTHEWS: Thank you, Howard Fineman. I think that will be their effort, anyway. Thank you with that wonderful duo pushing for it. Bob Herbert, thank you, as always, for joining us form the "New York Times," and Howard Fineman from "Newsweek." And from here, join us again tomorrow night at 5:00 and 7:00 Eastern for more HARDBALL. Right now, it's time for "THE ED SHOW" with Ed Schultz.
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