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High Profile Crimes and Trials (not missing persons)
Jodi Arias trial - for the murder of Travis Alexander
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Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
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Topic: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial (Read 1408075 times)
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Monkey All Star Jr.
Posts: 6204
Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
Reply #80 on:
January 22, 2013, 12:37:14 AM »
If this jury turns out to be another Pinellas jury I'm going to cry.
These are my opinions and subject to change.
Monkey Junky Jr.
Posts: 712
Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
Reply #81 on:
January 22, 2013, 03:22:31 AM »
Quote from: KittyMom on January 22, 2013, 12:37:14 AM
If this jury turns out to be another Pinellas jury I'm going to cry.
Exactly how im feeling kittymom. I guess our justice system is the best there is but it worries me how many jurors are picked to make such important decisions when they clearly lack the common sense required. Im sure defense attorneys hone in on the idiots that cant connect obvious dots. Pinellas obviously has its fair share of stupid. Hope arizona is a little smarter.
Monkey Mega Star
Posts: 74255
Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
Reply #82 on:
January 22, 2013, 08:19:31 PM »
Former Moderator
Monkey Mega Star
Posts: 44735
Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
Reply #83 on:
January 23, 2013, 03:00:14 PM »
How Lies Destroy Lives
Aired January 18, 2013 - 19:00 ET
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Lies, lies, lies, more lies. Casey Anthony,
Jodi Arias
, and now Lance Armstrong. Tonight, breaking news on all three of America`s most infamous liars, how secrets and lies destroy lives.
" Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Moynihan
Former Moderator
Monkey Mega Star
Posts: 44735
Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
Reply #84 on:
January 23, 2013, 03:08:45 PM »
Nancy Grace Mysteries - The Jodi Arias Interrogation Tapes
Aired January 18, 2013 - 20:00 ET
JODI ARIAS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: If I was going to try to kill somebody, I would use gloves (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) you know, you had planned this out perfectly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not a good lie.
ARIAS: If Travis were here today, he would tell you that it wasn`t me! I have to maintain my innocence! I can`t admit to doing something that I haven`t done!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was she saying? Do you even know what she was saying?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t want you to sit here and tell me a lie -- a lie.
ARIAS: There`s no reason I would ever want to hurt him!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It seemed like the reason they broke up was because they didn`t trust each other.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My job is to speak for Travis right now. I think what Travis is telling me is that, Jodi did this to me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One day, he showed up, and was telling us that he had broken up with Jodi.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Travis didn`t want their relationship to be public. And the next day, he got in his car and noticed that all four tires were slashed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no way anybody else...
ARIAS: He never raped me!
ARIAS: How was she going to get you? Did she have a weapon?
ARIAS: She had a knife.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said she had a gun before.
ARIAS: I don`t know if she had a gun. I think. I`m guessing.
GRACE: I have analyzed every single day, every word of testimony in the Jodi Arias murder one trial. And as far as week three goes, in my mind, the most explosive testimony in trial, the most explosive exhibit in trial, is Jodi Arias herself caught on tape.
ARIAS: How many times was Travis stabbed?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) than I want to remember. And I`m not going to sit here and show you pictures of him after the fact. I don`t do that. That`s not how I work. That is not for me to do. But eventually, those photos will come out. Jodi...
GRACE: A lot of people have asked me who was the best liar as far as defendants go that I`ve ever seen. Now, that`s a tough call because so many defendants do not take the stand wisely. As a matter of fact, if you look at this statistically, you have a better chance at acquittal or a lesser included offense such as voluntary manslaughter if you don`t take the stand. Defendants that do take the stand are more likely to be convicted.
ARIAS: If I had planned to hurt him in any way -- you know, I`m not the brightest person, but I -- I don`t think I could stab him. I think I would have to shoot him continuously until he was dead.
If that were my intention -- and again, I`d bring up the gloves again, that I would have to wear gloves because -- I mean, I`m not too worried about prints because they`re all over anyway. But I would never stab him. If -- if -- I had it in me anywhere to kill him, the least I could have done was to make it humane as possible or quick or something, you know? Not that killing is humane, so to speak. (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know what you mean.
ARIAS: (INAUDIBLE) he was still alive (ph).
GRACE: It all goes back to an old, old quote that I believe originated with Abraham Lincoln. They may think you`re a liar, but why speak and confirm their suspicions?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you need to think about what you`re saying. This continuing to lie is not going to help you.
ARIAS: Admitting to something I didn`t do won`t help me, either. OK, let`s say for a second that I did and I say, I did it -- I mean...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The motive is there, the jealousy issue.
ARIAS: But I wasn`t -- I wouldn`t even say I was jealous. I mean, there may have been some jealousy there but...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then what caused this?
ARIAS: I think, if -- you know, anyone, maybe Travis was jealous, but...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s not what everybody else says. Well, they know he was jealous, but they think that you were absolutely obsessed. "Obsessed" is the word that they use. That`s the word I hear from everybody. "Fatal Attraction" -- I don`t know how many times I`ve heard that.
GRACE: When Jodi Arias was being interrogated by Detective Flores, it was a textbook, almost a flawless interrogation of her. Within, I would say, about 30 minutes into her interrogation, she starts like this, Uh-huh, and she`s like this. She`s slumped over. She`s practically lying across - - halfway across the table, just kind of, like, floating answers up into the room in Flores`s direction. Her body language says it all, as she slowly wraps herself and tangles herself in a web of lies that I really don`t see how she can get out of.
ARIAS: He wasn`t really moving, though. He was just staying kind of still on the floor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then what happened?
ARIAS: Well, as soon as he said go get help, I turned around and I -- and they were there and...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where were they?
ARIAS: They were in the bathroom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where at in the bathroom? Out in the hallway or in the bathroom?
ARIAS: The girl was in the hallway, kind of. And the guy was more toward in the bedroom but, like, still in the bathroom, like, on the tile carpet area right there where it starts.
ARIAS: And he started coming in toward the bathroom, too, and I...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you do? What happened, Jodi? What did you see?
ARIAS: I chickened out like a little bitch!
GRACE: To me, seeing Jodi Arias, herself spinning this web of lies was the most damning evidence of all. We already know that she changed her story three times and may change it again by the time the defense finally takes center stage. So we know that two of those stories, at least -- we know they`re a lie because she`s already told us the third story.
ARIAS: She had a knife.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said she had a gun before. You`re going to have to face the consequences.
ARIAS: I mean, you know, if I did that, I would -- I would be fully ready to face the consequences. I`m not really for things like -- I`m all for the 10 Commandments, Thou shall not kill, OK, but...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no evidence to show anybody else did that. None.
GRACE: It`s very unusual to get this much of a defendant on an interrogation tape, but I would say the introduction of the Jodi Arias interrogation tapes were the most critical and explosive evidence in court week three, and bar none. That`s compared to naked photos, naked body parts. I mean, I know more about Jodi Arias`s -- let me just say rear end, for a better word, than I ever dreamed I would know. That`s not exactly why I went to law school.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s just say I`ve seen all of you. And I`ve seen all of Travis. But the one that sticks in my mind of Travis is on the autopsy table. I`m not going to show you that one. Or should I?
ARIAS: If Travis were here today, he would tell you that it wasn`t me!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My job is to speak for Travis right now, and everything Travis is telling me is that, Jodi did this to me.
GRACE: I can tell you this, looking at those photos showed me that what went on was not forced. She was not forced to take those photos.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Detective, you were present when the photos of Ms. Arias and Mr. Alexander were shown in court, correct?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And those were recovered from the camera on the scene, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And that was a few weeks after the investigation began that those photographs were actually recovered, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It took a couple weeks before your forensic department obtained those?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And before they obtained those, had you had any other evidence that Ms. Arias was at Mr. Alexander`s home on June 4th?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I don`t believe so.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So you spoke with numerous friends of his, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. You and your other investigators, people at the scene, that sort of thing -- numerous people at the scene, friends of his, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the roommates. And none of them gave you any information, any idea Ms. Arias was coming to visit Mr. Alexander, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s correct.
GRACE: And speaking of the photos, a very critical element that I think has been overlooked, the series of photos capturing Travis Alexander naked in the shower literally seconds before she unleashes her fury on him and kills him.
She`s dressed. What does that mean? Think about it. They`ve been having sex all day long, a marathon sex contest. He goes to the shower. They`ve been photographing the whole thing. That`s how I know what happened, with date and timestamps. He goes and gets in the shower. She is still taking sexy photos of him in the shower.
But look at her. A part of her foot and leg is captured in one of the photos. She is dressed. She is dressed to kill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you said he doesn`t like you to take pictures of him.
ARIAS: He was very private about the shower. Like, we...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that why you were taking pictures of him in the shower?
ARIAS: No, no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trying to get back at him?
ARIAS: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m surprised he allowed you to take pictures of him in the shower. The first few looked like he wasn`t too comfortable. But obviously, whatever you were saying to him made him a little more comfortable.
What went wrong? Did he say something to you? Were you angry about something? Were you frustrated? What was it? Because something happened at that point.
GRACE: Her lover is still naked. Her lover`s in the shower, still thinking she`s taking sexy photos. She`s ready to commit murder. She has on her body concealed a gun and a knife. That`s why she`s dressed. Think about it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe things got out of hand and...
ARIAS: Did you find the gun? Maybe that would...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jodi, we`re just playing games here. That gun was in your possession. When did you report it stolen?
ARIAS: I didn`t even know that there were guns until my grandparents reported it stolen the day their house was broken into.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When was that?
ARIAS: I don`t remember.
GRACE: A lot has been made of the fact that Jodi Arias didn`t just try to access Travis Alexander`s voicemail, she did. Verizon tells us under oath that she was on his voicemail for 16 minutes.
Now, the longest message possible was five minutes. She`s on it 16 minutes. What was she doing? She was obsessed with him. She was stalking him even in death. She was listening to his messages.
I would say it`s crazy, but this girl is not crazy in the legal sense. She has been stalking him and obsessed with him for so long, she can`t stop.
ARIAS: Anyway, right about the time he was starting to gear up -- I know Leslie called you, so -- I already talked to her, so you can call her back, if you want, but it`s not necessary. My phone died, so I wasn`t getting back to anybody.
GRACE: We know that Jodi Arias called Travis Alexander about 14 times in the days leading up to his murder, around the time of his murder. He called her back only two times.
I think this simply reaffirms what I already know. I have personally spoken to I don`t even know how many, countless of his friends, who all say the same thing. She was stalking him. She was obsessed with him. We were afraid for him. He was afraid for himself because of Jodi Arias. He wanted to break it off, but he was actually afraid what she would do.
We see the pattern escalating -- slashing his tires. He gets a new pair of tires. She slashes them. She follows him on dates with other women. She hacks into his social media account. She hacks into his bank account, I think to see where he was using his bank card, where he was using his credit card, to see if he was going on dates. She was trying to track him to see what he was doing when she wasn`t around. She was completely obsessed by him.
ARIAS: He was very uplifted, a very uplifting person. He had every - - he knew every one of my buttons. He could bring me up or down, you know, at the drop of a hat.
BONNIE DRUKER, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Prosecutors say that Jodi Arias planned this attack. She showed up to the house in Mesa, Arizona, with a .25-caliber gun and a knife. She had sex with Travis Alexander all afternoon, even taking many, many photos.
odi Arias gave police three stories about what really happened here the night Travis Alexander was killed. First, she said she wasn`t even here. Next, Jodi Arias told police that intruders actually broke into this house, a woman and a man, and they were masked, and they are the ones who attacked Travis Alexander. She said that the intruders let her go free, but she never called police and she never called 911.
GRACE: We know that on one occasion, when he`s in the shower, Jodi Arias starts reading his texts and begins texting another woman as if she were Travis Alexander. All she had left to do, basically, was kill him and wear his skin. And she nearly did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were several photos of him, and the last one that we have is of him sitting in the shower. And that`s when I think it happened. He was sitting down, looking up at you. What did you do? What happened, Jodi? We`ve gone this far. Did you plan on doing that the whole time?
ARIAS: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then why? Tell me. I don`t believe you planned it.
GRACE: Juries love, as we call it, telephonic evidence, evidence of phone records, in my day, but now evidence of triangulation is the new phase, the next generation of phone evidence, that your cell phone can actually be triangulated or located as to where you were when you were making those cell calls within about a block or even less sometimes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In your experience as a custodian of records, this period of time, is the person leaving a voicemail (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not past five minutes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what are the possibilities with regard to a call that`s 16 minutes long, in your experience with Verizon, as to what could be happening with the phone?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody`s listening to messages.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Again, this was on what date and time?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: June 4th, 11:53 PM, June 4th of 2008.
GRACE: Jodi Arias actually said on tape during interrogation -- and I`ve watched it over and over and over -- that if she had hurt Travis Alexander, she would beg for the death penalty.
ARIAS: Could it have been blood from before?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your image is not important right now. Saving the rest of your life is.
ARIAS: Listen, if I`m found guilty, I don`t have a life. I`m not guilty. I didn`t hurt Travis. If I hurt Travis, if I killed Travis, I would beg for the death penalty.
GRACE: Well, let`s just say that was a very poor choice of words, Jodi. Be careful what you ask for, Jodi Arias, for you will surely get it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your blood is in the house mixed with his, mixed - - not alongside, but mixed. Your hair is there with blood, and your palm print is there in blood. It`s over.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... a digital camera that was found inside of the washing machine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was the condition of the camera?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was not able to find any items saved to the internal memory of the camera.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We found this camera, and you know, it`s pretty much ruined. And we didn`t know why.
ARIAS: Oh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When it snapped this photograph, was it right side up or was it upside-down?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was upside-down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This area down here, can you tell what that is?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A stain. It looks like blood.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever shot that .25 auto?
ARIAS: Uh-uh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever touched it?
ARIAS: (INAUDIBLE) was stolen. I`ve never seen it.
It was, like, a .25-caliber gun?
(INAUDIBLE) I don`t even know what a .25 looks like.
GRACE: One of my favorite moments in the caught on tape interrogation -- well, there were really two. The detective shows Arias some of the naked, very provocative -- I don`t find them sexy at all. To me, they are just close-ups of body parts. But he shows her a naked photo of herself -- with her head attached to this one -- and she studies it and she goes, That kind of looks like me. That was one of my favorite moments in trial.
But a close second would be when he shows her a photo of Travis Alexander slumped down. He`s dying if he`s not already dead. His life`s blood is flowing out of him. His throat was slashed in a smiley face from ear to ear. And inadvertently in that photo, captured is Jodi Arias`s foot and pant leg. So she is confronted about her own leg being in the photo.
The detective says, This is yours. This is you. And she goes, Well, yes, I do have a pair of pants like that, but mine have, I don`t know, white stitching or a zipper here, some subtle difference.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: this one I don`t know if I should show you, but -- not too bad, but it`s just one of the photos that was taken by accident. And this is just a small portion of it. It`s your foot, Jodi. These are your pants. Now, it`s off-color because we had to enhance it and the color kind of changes a little bit. That`s Travis.
ARIAS: This is his bathroom. That is not my foot!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those are your pants. It`s a different color, like I said, because we had to enhance it and the color changes. The zipper...
ARIAS: I have both of those pants at home, if these are the same ones. I don`t have a zipper there, though, not on mine. And this is a black stripe and this is white, and the black is (INAUDIBLE) too.
GRACE: I mean, this woman is incredible, incredibly evil but yet incredible because she has an answer to every question. She reminds me very much of Scott Peterson. She is a female Scott Peterson. She also remind me very much of tot mom.
All three of them, many would say -- not me, of course, but many would say are physically attractive. All three of them, I will admit, have a certain sort of charisma or mystique about them. All three of them were in sales of sorts for a living. I don`t know what that means, but they have a personality -- each of them had a personality that is suited to convincing other people one way or the other.
ARIAS: I have to maintain my innocence! I can`t admit to doing something that I haven`t done! And part of me wants me to cop out and say it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
ARIAS: Well...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you`re going to cop out, it`s because you`re telling the truth.
ARIAS: Well, that`s not really copping out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I don`t want you to sit here and tell me a lie to appease me. That is the worst thing you could do for me. But back there in that mind of yours is somebody screaming to get out and tell me what happened. But you just keep on...
ARIAS: He has done nothing but -- except for some mean words he said. People have said worse to me or just as bad. Except for that, he`s never - - he`s helped me. He`s given me money. He was selling me his car on the...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then why?
ARIAS: ... on the easiest...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then why, Jodi?
ARIAS: ... lightest terms ever. There`s no reason why.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It just happens.
GRACE: All three of them were driven by sex. And I`m not saying that a sex drive is a bad thing, but what I`m saying is Jodi Arias communicated -- and many of Travis`s friends have told me this -- with all men on a sexual level. In fact, a lot of his friends confronted her and said, Don`t come around (INAUDIBLE) Our wives, they don`t want you around, because she would be very flirtatious with the husbands.
Well, I can tell you, you know, that`s the first way to lose friends is to flirt with a woman`s husband. Yes. No, don`t do it. Well, she did.
But apparently, that was her MO. We see her leaving Travis Alexander`s decomposing body in a damp shower stall and literally hopping on top of another man a couple of hours later, her new boyfriend, God help him.
Scott Peterson, also driven by sex, caught up in a web of lies regarding an affair while he was married to pregnant Laci Peterson. And of course, tot mom wanted a free, single lifestyle so she could pursue men, regardless of her duties as a mother.
They have a lot of similarities, and that came shining through during the interrogation.
ARIAS: A lot of people were dropping my name, and I said I`m not worried about it because I didn`t do it, I said, but it`s very much -- it`s hurting my reputation and it`s casting me in a bad light.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wouldn`t be worried about your reputation right now. I`d be worrying about the rest of your life. That means nothing. Absolutely nothing.
ARIAS: Well, my reputation will affect the rest of my life, so I am worried about my reputation.
GRACE: During the interrogation tapes, Arias goes on to say that she`s not the smartest, not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Well, I agree with her on that. But she says that she suggests that the mode of death, cause of death on Travis Alexander was horrific and cruel. And she says, I just basically don`t think I would have the heart to stab him so many times. I couldn`t do that. If I ever did kill somebody, it would be by shooting.
Hello? He was shot! But if you think about what she said, she is saying that this murder is heinous and tortuous and cruel, which is an aggravating circumstance by which a jury can impose the death penalty.
GRACE: When Jodi Arias was confronted about the use of a gun in Travis Alexander`s murder, she feigned surprise. I found that to be her worst acting in the entire interrogation tape.
ARIAS: Did you find the gun? Maybe that would...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jodi, we`re just playing games here. That gun was in your possession. When did you report it stolen?
ARIAS: I didn`t even know that there were guns until my grandparents reported it stolen the day their house was broken into.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When was that?
ARIAS: I don`t remember. It was a few months ago maybe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you do with the gun?
ARIAS: I don`t have a gun.
GRACE: When we first see Jodi Arias on tape, caught on tape speaking to Detective Flores, she has on one outfit. She goes to jail that night. She sleeps on it behind bars.
The next day, she appears in orange prison attire. And after one night, she`s cracked. She cracks in one night. Her story changes. The very next day, within a 24-hour period, she can`t take it anymore. She changes her story to even a wackier story that a man and woman, male and female ninja duo dressed entirely in black head to toe, come in, murder Travis, take a look at her driver`s license to see where she lives, and spares her life.
ARIAS: She was over him, and I just rushed her and I pushed her! And there`s...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s what?
ARIAS: Travis was bleeding everywhere.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was she doing to him? Because he had been shot at this time, right?
ARIAS: Yes, I think he was still alive. He was still conscious, even.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Still talking?
ARIAS: He wasn`t talking or saying much, but I could tell he was breathing. He seemed like he was breathing, calmly, I think. He wasn`t, like -- he was just there. I can`t really remember. It`s such a blur!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And so you did what now? You pushed her?
ARIAS: She`s bigger, a little bit bigger than me, not really in size but height.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what happened?
ARIAS: Well, that didn`t really deter her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did she have any weapons on her at all?
ARIAS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did she have?
ARIAS: She -- I thought she was the one with the gun. Maybe she had the gun, but he had a gun. (INAUDIBLE) two guns or (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s the one who shot him, though, right? She was the one here, he was back here at the time when you saw them.
GRACE: She maybe should have slept on that another night. Why did she do it? Because she was confronted with all of the evidence, physical evidence that cannot be refuted, placing her at the crime scene. So she had to admit she was at the crime scene and come up with a scenario in which she is innocent, but she literally has Travis Alexander`s blood on her hands. And that`s what she came with overnight. That explains that.
I think the state`s method of showing portions of the caught on tape interrogation of Arias that are relevant to that particular witness is an excellent move. We have seen in other trials where the videotapes would drone on and on and on, some of it relevant, some of it not relevant, some of it possibly even engendering some type of connection with the defendant.
After a while, when you see something over and over and over, you get numbed to it. You get used to it. It doesn`t shock you. It doesn`t disturb you anymore. And I think if they had played these A to Z, soup to nuts, that may have happened.
They are wisely -- it takes effort. It takes planning. It takes a lot of planning. I know from having introduced hundreds of exhibits at one particular trial. You know, you have to plan it very carefully to orchestrate what they are doing, and I find it highly effective.
ARIAS: Our friendship was really over the phone. Every night, you know, when all was said and done, when his day`s work was done and my day`s work was done, you know, he would inevitably call and we would talk for a while, anywhere from, you know, a half hour, or sometimes it would end up being four hours, and we`d fall asleep, and things like that. And then, you know, with time, it just kind of progressed into a little bit more and a little bit more until we decided to make it more official.
GRACE: I`ve been asked to compare the state`s case to other cases, and I don`t really want to do that because every murder trial is a whole `nother animal. It`s got its ins and outs that we on the outside looking in cannot fathom. But as of right now, closing in on the end of week 3, this day gets an A-plus.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She didn`t want to be recognized when she went over to Mr. Alexander`s home because she was going to kill him. In addition to bringing the gun, she also brought a knife. And when she got there, she engaged in whatever conduct she engaged in, and then she began to attack him. She began to attack him after she had, in a manner of speaking, lulled him to sleep, had him in a very vulnerable position, sitting in that shower.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After Mr. Alexander`s body was found, did you have occasion to receive a telephone call from the defendant?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And about what time was it that you received the call?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was right after she found out that he had been killed. She was very upset and distraught. She was crying, sobbing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what was she saying?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She said that Travis was dead, that he`d been killed, and that she couldn`t imagine why someone would do that to Travis, and how could they do something like that to Travis, that he was such a wonderful person and why would anybody do that to him.
ARIAS: I did not go near his house. Isn`t there -- aren`t there...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I pulled your cell records. Your cell phone was turned off between here and here, OK? But the last place it pulled (ph) it was here. The next place it turned on was here. What does that show me?
ARIAS: Oh, well, I began -- oh, no, no, no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there plenty of time for you to do that? Yes. And I -- do I believe that you had come to visit Travis? Yes, I truly believe it. Did you have the opportunity? Yes. You were traveling alone. There`s no other witnesses. Your phone just happened to turn off from here to here.
ARIAS: Well, I didn`t turn it off physically, but it died.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then it magically -- you found your charger here?
ARIAS: It was under (INAUDIBLE) packed under the seat on the passenger side. And it was when I was...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you were lost, you couldn`t have maybe pulled over and found it or...
ARIAS: Well, I did finally start looking when I was stranded. I wouldn`t have pulled over when I was lost.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But I don`t think you`re being completely honest with me about that trip.
ARIAS: I honestly got lost. It`s bad timing.
GRACE: Many people have asked me what I`m looking forward to the most. Well, I don`t think you ever really look forward to anything in a murder trial. I`ve been a crime victim myself and prosecuted I can`t even count how many homicides.
But if there`s one thing that I`m most curious about, I`m like anybody else. Will Jodi Arias take the stand? And if so, what is she going to say?
" Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Moynihan
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Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
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What Tactics Will Jodi Arias`s Defense Use?
Aired January 21, 2013 - 19:00 ET
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Will Jodi Arias walk free after arguing she killed her ex-boyfriend, Travis Alexander, in self-defense? Can a defense attorney repeat anything their client claims, even if that client is a pathological liar and known to be a liar?
Tonight, the secret that could get Jodi Arias off.
VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Tonight, life or death for Jodi Arias? Now it`s her side`s turn to try to prove she stabbed and shot her ex-, Travis Alexander, to death in self-defense. Can she use the abuse excuse without taking the stand? Will her defense team drop a bomb on day one?
And ever since the O.J. trial, have criminal defense attorneys felt free to play fast and loose, leaving prosecutors at a disadvantage?
Plus, a stunning slew of similarities between Jodi Arias and Casey Anthony.
Plus, we`re taking your calls.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is telling me that you did this to him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh my God.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nine-one-one emergency.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A friend of ours is dead in his bedroom.
JODI ARIAS, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER: So I`m as good as done?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s pictures of you laying on the bed in pigtails.
ARIAS: Pigtails?
If I hurt Travis, if I killed Travis, I would beg for the death penalty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When people lie, there`s an effort to throw a little truth in there to make the lie more believable.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, it`s life or death inside the Jodi Arias courtroom as the defense gears up to defend the woman cops call a cold- blooded killer. Will Jodi`s team be able to convince the jury she killed her ex-boyfriend in self-defense?
Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, coming to you live.
The beautiful 32-year-old photographer admits she stabbed her ex- boyfriend 29 times, slitting Travis Alexander`s throat from ear to ear and shooting him in the face. But she claims it was all in self-defense.
Still, after the jury saw pictures of the very bloody crime scene, like this one, or pictures from Travis`s autopsy, like this one, will they believe self-defense?
Jodi`s defense team claims Travis emotionally abused and sexually degraded Jodi. Listening to the explosive defense claims made in opening statements. We warn you: it`s graphic, but it was said in open court.
JENNIFER WILLMOTT, ATTORNEY FOR JODI ARIAS: As Travis would explain to Jodi, oral sex really isn`t as much of a sin for him as vaginal sex. And so he was able to convince her to give him oral sex. And later in their relationship, Travis would tell her that anal sex really isn`t much of a sin compared to vaginal sex. And so he was able to persuade her to allow him to have anal sex with her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And then the jury got an eyeful when the prosecution showed triple-X-rated photos like this one, presumably shot by the victim, Travis, of Jodi wearing pigtails in a possible sexual role-playing thing and laying seductively on Travis`s bed. And they also saw this photo of Jodi, shot from knees up. And these are just some of the tamer photos to give you an idea.
So will Jodi have to take the stand if she hopes to use these photos somehow to prove, oh, she was abused and degraded, and she did this in self-defense? Will a jury believe her after listening to her litany of lies?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The camera actually took a couple photos by accident during the time he was being killed.
ARIAS: Really?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, Jodi, really. You were there. Quit playing this game. It`s time for you to just come out and tell me.
ARIAS: I did not -- I did not hurt Travis.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, yes, you did.
I want to hear from you. Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297. What are your questions for our experts?
Who on earth would want to testify on behalf of this pathological liar? And is there any way she can prove self-defense without taking the stand herself?
Straight out to our expert panel to debate it all. We begin our faceoff with criminal defense attorney Gina Longarzo. Gina, does Jodi have a snowball`s chance in hell of proving self-defense?
GINA LONGARZO, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely, Jane. I believe that she does have all the elements needed to prove that she was a battered woman and that she was not premeditating a murder. She did not know what she was doing. She was pathological, but she`s not a liar. She doesn`t know what she said.
And she went there, like a battered woman, because she was tragically still in love with this man. But she knew there was a chance that something could go awry, and it did. And she dropped the camera, and she just snapped. And I think she does have a valid defense.
And the state has to convince 12 jurors beyond a reasonable doubt to convict this woman that -- decide that she should get the death penalty. I don`t know that they`re going to be able to do that, because they already lied, in my opinion, and said he`s a good, wholesome guy. He`s a Mormon who`s calling her the three-holed wonder and telling her to have anal sex. So I think there`s a chance.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. You made your case. Jon Lieberman?
JON LIEBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: I`m in disbelief. I mean, first of all, the victim is not on trial here. Travis Alexander is not on trial, as much as the defense will want to paint that.
But there`s so much evidence in this case, not to mention evidence of premeditation. The dying of her hair, going 90 miles away to rent the car. The gun is stolen from her house, reported missing. She brings a gun and a knife to Travis`s house.
And look at the blog entries, and everything. There`s absolutely no evidence that she was a battered woman, that she had ever been abused. And I just don`t think there`s a snowball`s chance in hell that this self- defense is going to stand up.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
LIEBERMAN: Plus in order to show self-defense, she`s going to have to take the stand...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well...
LIEBERMAN: ... and explain to this jury that she felt in danger.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s see about that. Darren Kavinoky, host of "Deadly Sins" on Investigation Discovery.
DARREN KAVINOKY, HOST, INVESTIGATION DISCOVERY`S "DEADLY SINS": Well, I think the snowball may have a better chance than Jodi Arias in this case. At least on the first phase, which is the guilt or proven or not proven phase, before we even get to all this death penalty stuff.
The prosecution`s case is elegant in its simplicity. It`s very straightforward: she stalked him. This was premeditated and planned. She put him in an especially vulnerable position in terms of the shower. She lied to cover it up, consciousness of guilt. All of that really works in the prosecution`s favor.
Then we get to this issue, assuming they come back and convict. Then we get to the issue about whether or not she deserved the death penalty. And I`ll point out that, generally speaking, being a Caucasian attractive female seems to work in your favor in death penalty cases, with one notable exception, Arizona. All the women on Death Row in Arizona, Caucasian females.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me say a couple things. One, you`re all making excellent arguments, but this idea that, oh, the prosecution`s proved she`s a stalker, actually, some of the worst stalking evidence never got in, because the prosecution itself decided it would be too prejudicial and could form the basis of an appeal, if she was convicted.
We`ve got to remember to distinguish what we are hearing and what the jury is hearing.
Now, the defense has already laid some important groundwork to try to prove that, in their claims, Travis degraded Jodi. Remember this from the defense attorney`s opening statement.
WILLMOTT: She knew that the one thing that calmed his temper the quickest is sex. So as she`s telling him "It`s OK. I`ll fix it. Don`t worry," Travis grabbed her and spun her around. Afraid that he was going to hurt her, Jodi was actually relieved when all he did was bend her over the desk.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Marla Chicotsky, you are a former prosecutor. Here`s what -- I don`t -- it just drives me mad. Nobody knows what happens behind closed doors. All these naked photos prove that, for sure.
Can the defense simply repeat any claim that Jodi, a known pathological liar, makes? As long as those claims refer to something that happened behind closed doors, given that the only person who could prove her a liar is dead and can`t defend himself.
MARLA CHICOTSKY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, Jodi has a really big problem in this case. She`s given multiple statements to law enforcement, which have been shown to not be credible. She`s going to have to take the stand in the case.
And the prosecution is going to be able to admit, which they did in their case in chief, all those statements that show that you cannot believe, if you`re the jury on this case, that what she`s telling you is the truth. It`s lie after lie after lie.
And yes, what happened is behind closed doors, but there is no physical evidence or anything of a struggle on Jodi. There`s furthermore no circumstantial evidence or direct evidence in this case that she was being physically abused or emotionally abused by Travis in this case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
CHICOTSKY: So I think the main problem the defense has is that she is a known liar in this case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And there is no 911 call, her complaining about Travis beating her. There`s nothing like that.
Let`s go to the phone lines. Sharon, New York. Your question or thoughts -- Sharon.
CALLER: Hi, Jane. I definitely think it was premeditated. However, why didn`t she die her hair back to blond after -- before she saw someone that she knew?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re right. Jean Casarez, "In Session" correspondent, you`re out there in Phoenix, and you`ve been covering this. She -- she`s watched one too many TV movies. She sort of does stuff that people do on television, like dye their hair.
But she really doesn`t die it back to where it was, the original color before seeing other people. Therefore, it doesn`t really work, does it?
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": First, no it doesn`t. First of all, I think her original color is brown. And she -- maybe she didn`t have the time to change it back, because you know, it was about a month before she was arrested and she was a suspect. She gave her DNA. She -- they were scrutinizing her, and maybe she believed that it`s just best for her to leave it the way she was.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Jean, let me ask you this: who on earth is going to want to testify in defense of this woman? If she doesn`t take the stand, what kind of case? Do they have a witness list? Who are they going to call?
CASAREZ: You know, Jane, they`ve really got some witnesses for the defense. I`ve been researching one. They`ve got a domestic violence expert. Her name is Alyce LaViolette. And she is one of the leading domestic violence experts, at least on the West Coast. She`s out of Southern California.
She has developed anger management courses -- that`s a key word right there, I think anger. That tells where the defense is going to go. She has developed programs for men who abused their intimate partners. In 1979 she formulated a course that has really gone nationwide: "Alternatives to Violence."
You know, we heard in the opening statements about he got so angry -- angry -- and they`d say this several times. I think they`re going to put her on to talk about what anger does to the victim who receives that anger.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but basically, it`s still her claiming it and nobody else. Nobody corroborating his temper, except an expert who`s been paid by the defense. Just how far...
CASAREZ: You know, Jane...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead.
CASAREZ: Maybe they`re using it as a mitigator and not actually as a complete defense for an acquittal. Maybe they`re using it so somebody out there will have a little empathy for her, jury nullification, so they won`t convict on first degree.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s possible. Just how far will the defense go in this case?
Do you remember the O.J. Simpson trial? "If it doesn`t fit, you must acquit"? Will Jodi try to use the abuse excuse?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She slit his throat as a reward for being a good man. She knocked the blessings out of him by putting a bullet in his head.
ARIAS: What`s my motive?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jealousy, anger, fear, fear of being alone, angry at him for not keeping you in his life. I don`t know. That`s why I`m trying to figure it out. There`s so many motives with you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jealousy, rage, Jodi`s past is a big mystery. How did she get to that place? Travis`s friends who knew Jodi said she never spoke about her past. Jodi did a "48 Hours" interview where she described her childhood in the most classic generic terms. Listen to this.
ARIAS: My childhood was almost ideal. I have a big family; we`re all very close.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. So ideal that you`re now accused of murder.
She went to Yreka High School. We know that. That was in her hometown, near the Oregon border. She dropped out in 11th grade. Prior to Travis, she dated a respectable man who had a good job as a hospitality consultant, and he had a child, for four years. They actually bought a house together.
We know that her last job was as a waitress. She quit just a couple of days before killing Travis. She aspired to be a photographer.
Shanna Hogan, journalist and author of "Picture Perfect," you are writing a book on this case. Why is her life such a mystery? Fill in some of the other pieces? Where did he come from? What is her story?
SHANNA HOGAN, JOURNALIST/AUTHOR (via phone): Well, I think one of the reasons why her life is such a mystery and why she doesn`t have a lot of people coming forward supporting her is because she was a relationship hopper. She went from one relationship to the next, and that was her entire focus.
You know, when she was with Travis, she gave up her entire life. She moved to Mesa, made all new friends. And everything was about Travis and being part of his life. So that`s one of the reasons that she doesn`t have a lot of friends.
The other reason she`s kind of mysterious about her background, I think that she probably had a pretty traumatic childhood, the opposite of what she described. Like the parents, I know that there`s some animosity there. That`s why she didn`t move back with her parents when she moved back to Yreka but she actually moved in with her grandparents. We know that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Gina Longarzo, you wanted to jump in.
LONGARZO: Yes, I do, because I have a problem with the way this debate is going, because we`re all forgetting that the defendant has not presented any evidence yet. You`re only looking at the state`s case at this point.
So everything you`re saying -- she`s a liar, she changed her story -- we have not heard from the defense as of yet. We`ve only heard the state`s witnesses.
And I`m sorry, but nobody is that good of a liar. Nobody is that good of an actress. I really think she was a true battered woman. And...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, Marla. Marla, you wanted to respond.
CHICOTSKY: Yes, I think we have heard from this defendant. She`s given multiple statements. We know exactly what she`s said to law enforcement. We know -- at one point she said she didn`t do it. The second time, she said that she wasn`t there at all. And then now we have her actually confessing to the murder.
So it`s not about whether she`s battered or not. It`s whether she can prove in her affirmative defense that she was in fear of her life or that she was going to be injured by her -- or by Travis in this case. And that evidence is just not there yet.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, Darren.
KAVINOKY: Jane -- Jane, look, it`s true that we`ve not heard from the defense, and jurors are often told that, if they have to vote at the end of the prosecution`s case before hearing from the defense, how would you vote. And if anybody says anything other than not guilty, then that`s a great opportunity to teach them about the presumption of innocence. Everybody gets that.
The problem in this particular case is that there have been so many conflicting stories that have come out of Jodi Arias`s own mouth that she`s already going into her case with the presumption of being a liar.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. It`s a story like Casey Anthony, and she was found not guilty of murder and guilty of lying.
LIEBERMAN: This is totally different.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Robi Ludwig -- hold on a second -- psychotherapist, I find it fascinating that we don`t know anything about her past. What is that a signal of?
ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes. Well, she doesn`t want us to know about her past. Probably because it might present her in a way that she doesn`t really like. If she reveals that she was abused, she knows that she would come off in a particular way.
This is a woman who is escaping her family, who`s trying to connect and recreate her life each and every time she finds a new relationship. The fact that she`s doing that speaks to a character pathology.
And I just want to say, listen, if I were her defense attorney, I would go with battered wife syndrome, absolutely, even though she`s not a wife, because look at what she did, and that`s the way some women do overreact when they are abused.
Having said that, if you have a borderline personality disorder, you could feel abused, even though there wasn`t actual abuse going on, because you`re sensitive to being abandoned and feeling like you`re not being treated properly. And that can contribute to revenge.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. In other words, anybody can feel abused. "Oh, you look at me the wrong way. I feel abused right now. Therefore, I`m going to kill you." It`s a crazy, mixed-up world that somebody can use that as a justification for killing somebody, slicing -- practically decapitating them.
On the other side, more of your calls, and we`re diving deeper into this case.
ARIAS: I would never stab him. If -- if I had it in me anywhere to kill him, the least I could have done was make it as humane as possible. Quick or something, you know?
ARIAS: We were together a lot. He got a lot of grief from his friends about the amount of time we spent together.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They didn`t like you?
ARIAS: I don`t think it was so much that. I think they were concerned with his future prospects for marriage.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right now Jodi Arias`s defense team is probably huddling, trying to figure out how to present their case, and they may not have decided yet whether Jodi Arias should take the stand or not. A lot of times, that decision is made at the 11th hour, because they want to try to use other possibilities.
Let`s go out to the phone lines. Linda in California, your question or thought. Linda, California.
CALLER: Hi.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi, how you doing?
CALLER: Can you hear me?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Your question or thought, Linda.
CALLER: Hey, Jan. San Diego thinks you rock. We love you in San Diego.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.
CALLER: Hey, there`s a picture of Jodi and Travis that the TV stations keep showing. And it really haunts me. It`s the picture of where they`re under a waterfall, and she has her hands around his throat. And to me, it looks like she wants to strangle him. Could that be a sign of premeditation?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I know the photo you`re talking about. And we`re scrolling through our photos. It`s coming up in a second. I think that`s absolutely fascinating.
There`s been a lot of foreshadowing, Dr. Robi Ludwig, in this case. They were reading the book, "A Thousand Places to Visit Before You Die." There were many others. He had predicted his own death, told friends, "I think she could kill me."
And something as subtle as putting her hands around his throat in a happy, so-called happy picture -- it`s coming up -- but what would it mean?
LUDWIG: Well, I think it shows that there`s aggression there. I would guess he`d something or did something.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right there. There it is. Look at that!
LUDWIG: But it also shows how she`s really -- she`s so in his space, you know. She`s holding onto him for dear life. And I show -- I think it shows her inability to not be with him. She needed to be with him.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Selin Darkalstanian, our producer who has been covering this case from the start, you`ve been talking to sources. And it`s -- you`ve learned something fascinating about her relationships, gender-wise.
SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN PRODUCER: It seems like a lot of people who we talked to have all told us that she didn`t have many girlfriends. And all her friends were either guy friends or boyfriends that she was either dating or in a relationship with. So we`re having trouble coming across any females or girlfriends in the past that will come up and speak up for her.
But everybody we reached out to says that she didn`t like a lot of girls. She always thought that she was pretty. She thought when she was around girls, the girls were jealous of her. And so that`s why she surrounded herself with guys.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`ve got to go back. There`s another boyfriend. There`s no -- there`s no commonality to these boyfriends. They`re sort of all over the map. Except that they`re guys.
LUDWIG: Yes. That might be enough, but she probably idealized them. She probably thought they had something to offer. A serious relationship. They would...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: They were her ticket out of Yreka. Let me say it. Let me boil it down to the basic terms.
She thought her guys, whatever guys she could get, were her ticket out of this town, out of this little town, Yreka, that`s close to the Oregon border. I don`t want to say anything negative about Yreka. I`ve never been there. But it`s a very small town. And this is a woman with very big ambitions and a grandiose narcissist who probably thinks she should be treated like a princess and be wealthy and have her own reality show.
Unfortunately, she does sort of have her own reality show now, and it`s a tragedy, because somebody is dead. This is not a happy story. This is a very, very sad story of where narcissism, malignant narcissism, and an aggressive desire to possess others will take you.
Chilling parallels between Jodi Arias and Casey Anthony. In just a minute, we`re going to look a closer look at the many, many creepy similarities between these two women.
Top of the hour, Nancy Grace goes inside the Arias police interrogation tapes. That`s at top of the hour, at 8 on HLN. Right here.
WILLMOTT: Jodi was Travis`s dirty little secret.
It is just one minute, just one minute of time between the camera falling until you see the picture of Travis with blood. One minute.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She slit his throat as a reward for being a good man.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who has her? Do you have a name?
CASEY ANTHONY, ACQUITTED FOR DEATH OF DAUGHTER: Her name is Zenaida Fernandez Gonzales.
JODI ARIAS, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: I just wanted to offer any assistance (inaudible). I was a really good friend of Travis.
ANTHONY: I still have that feeling, that presence, I know that she`s alive.
ESTEBAN FLORES, POLICE DETECTIVE: Jodi this is over. This is absolutely over. You need to tell me the truth.
ARIAS: Listen, the truth is I did not hurt Travis.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For years, she pretended she had a job and pretended she had a nanny.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi did not always tell the truth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m very confident, just after talking to you a short period of time, you know where she is.
ANTHONY: I don`t.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You do.
ANTHONY: I have no clue where she is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure you do.
ANTHONY: If I knew in any sense where she was, this wouldn`t have happened at all.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: If the Jodi Arias case has a weird, familiar ring to it, chances are you watched the Casey Anthony trial. We covered it in-depth right here on the show.
Tonight, a look at the stunning, even creepy similarities between these two women and these two cases. First of all, both cases involve horrific deaths that occurred in June of 2008. And both women, get this, were arrested within a day of each other. Casey was taken in on July 15th, right after her mom Cindy called 911.
CINDY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: I found out my granddaughter has been taken. She has been missing for a month. Her mother finally admitted that she`s been missing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ok. What is it --
CINDY ANTHONY: Get someone here now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ok, what is the address that you`re calling from?
CINDY ANTHONY: We`re talking about a three-year-old little girl. My daughter finally admitted that the babysitter stole her. I need to find her.
There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: At the very moment that Cindy was hysterically realizing her precious granddaughter Caylee was missing in Orlando, Florida, across the country in Yreka, California, cops were grilling -- yes, you guessed it -- Jodi Arias about her role in Travis Alexander`s bloody death, getting ready to arrest her. Unbelievable.
FLORES: There`s pictures of you laying on the bed in pigtails.
ARIAS: Pigtails?
FLORES: Yes. I`ve got pictures of you that I`ve blown up and you have got the little mole right there. It`s the same one. It`s you, it`s obvious.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s just some of the creepy parallels between these two cases, but really it`s bizarre.
Jean Casarez, both women were in their 20s at the time of the crime. Stains were found in both cars the women were driving. Both lied about where they worked and cops say both stole from friends and family. And that`s just for starters, Jean.
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": You know, It`s amazing, Jane. And I don`t think anybody has put together like you have that it happened in the same year and the same month and the culmination is the same because both women face the death penalty. One is now facing it right now. More or less, they were liars, they lived at home, they dropped out of high school. I mean -- many, many similarities.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable. We really were astounded as we went through the list. We`re just getting started. Now, a former acquaintance of Casey Anthony`s think anger over Casey`s not guilty verdict will impact the Jodi Arias jury. Listen to his argument, it makes a lot of sense. .
NATHAN LEZNIEWICZ, KNEW CASEY ANTHONY: The only thing that Jodi has working against her at this point was the severe backlash from the public in general that Casey Anthony was not convicted. So the public has had an opportunity to view all that and these jurors were well aware of that case and they have to feel that. And you wonder if it they are still not outraged from the Casey Anthony trial. That could make its way into this particular trial.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The public, of course, furious when the jury failed to convict Casey. There were huge protests outside the courthouse. I was there that day -- so much rage. Some of the jurors actually had to go into hiding.
Let`s bring in our expert legal panel. Could these Jodi jurors want to convict Jodi to avoid a backlash or just to show, hey, we won`t be fooled again? And I`m going to start with Jon Leiberman on that.
JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, first of all, there are a lot of significant differences in these cases. I mean Arias has admitted to the killing. That`s the one big thing. And now, I don`t think these jurors are going to be impacted by Casey Anthony at all.
There`s a lot more physical evidence in this case. As I mentioned, Arias has admitted to the killing. Just says -- now says it`s self- defense.
And I want to point out one other thing, Jane. The prosecutor in this case, Mr. Martinez, there are three other women -- right now there are three women on death row in Arizona. Mr. Martinez put one of them there and her defense was self-defense also.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Gina, I heard you were raising your hand and you wanted to get in.
GINA MENDOLA LONGARZO, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I did. First of all, if jurors consider something that has nothing to do with this trial, it`s a mistrial. They can`t think about anything but what is going on in this trial. In my experience, jurors care about getting it right. They look at everything. They consider everything. And they don`t like to give people the death penalty.
So that first issue of them thinking about the Casey Anthony case and applying it here, I think that`s preposterous and I think that that will not happen.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well they`ll -- go ahead.
DARREN KAVINOKY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: They are not supposed to. Well Jane, they are not supposed to, but they are human beings. And of course, Casey Anthony was not convicted in a court of law, but well tried and convicted in the court of public opinion. That has to be there on some level in a case like this.
Let`s not forget that in Casey Anthony, those jurors were sequestered. They had no opportunity to be influenced by anything going on in the media, any conversation outside of what happened in court. These jurors are not. Hopefully they are minding their oath.
LONGARZO: These jurors are asking a lot questions. They`re asking questions -- the right questions.
KAVINOKY: Yes, but hopefully these jurors -- hopefully these jurors are paying attention to the oath that they gave that they are not going to look receive any evidence other than what is given to them in the courtroom.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: By the way, they both -- we were showing a second ago a very good ability to actually cry on the drop of a dime. They are both wearing pastel, librarian-style shirts.
You were talking about the eerie similarities between Casey Anthony and Jodi Arias. Here`s another one. They both made up fictional -- not just lying but they actually both made up fictional -- elaborate fictional characters to explain why the people they loved ended up dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re telling me that Zenaida took your child without your permission and hasn`t returned her?
CASEY ANTHONY: She`s the last person that I have seen with my daughter, yes.
ARIAS: (inaudible) argued.
FLORES: About what?
ARIAS: About whether or not to kill me.
FLORES: For what reason?
ARIAS: Because I`m a witness.
FLORES: A witness of what?
ARIAS: Him. Travis.
FLORES: Of Travis`s murder?
ARIAS: Yes, but I didn`t really witness it. I didn`t see much.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So Casey made up Zanny the nanny. And she also alleged that domestic abuse -- Casey said she was sexually abused by her father George beginning in childhood. Jodi, of course, talked about ninjas doing a home invasion, which now she admits was a big, phony story. She claims she was sexually degraded by Travis.
So, both lied multiple times in their police interrogations. Both, by the way, just here`s a weird thing -- both watched movies with a guy within the hour of the death of their supposed loved ones. And again, both lied about their jobs.
So I`ve got to go back to my central question of the night. Please, somebody, I`m begging you, answer it. Marla Chicotsky, you`re a former prosecutor. Are defense attorneys legally allowed to just go with any cockamamie story their client comes up with, especially when they know that client is a pathological liar? Or do they have an ethical and moral obligation to vet claims given that their client lies and lies and lies.
MARLA CHICOTSKY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Yes, absolutely. A defense attorney has to keep their morals and ethics separate from when they`re defending their client. They can`t mix and mesh the two. I think in this case, they are being very specific about getting expert witnesses involved because they need someone to explain this pathological behavior.
Both Casey and Jodi were very manipulative women. They would steal. They would lie. They would use their sexuality to get what they wanted. And I think you can see it with the detectives that they are trying to continuously keep lying. I didn`t do it. I didn`t do it. I wasn`t involved. But that wasn`t working when there`s overwhelming evidence.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I understand -- you answered a little bit. But Darren Kavinoky, can a defense attorney listen to somebody say, hey he beat the bleep out of me behind closed doors. And you know they made up the story about ninjas doing a home invasion. You know they are pathological liars. Do you, as a defense attorney, feel comfortable in taking that to a jury and with cameras in the courtroom to the world destroying somebody`s character in death or do you have to say honey, you`re a big fat liar, I want you to show me some proof before I take that claim before the jury or before -- in a courtroom.
KAVINOKY: The defense attorney`s comfort level is absolutely not part of the calculus that fits into this at all. So as long as there are some facts, some evidence that allow the defense attorney to make a particular argument, they are duty bound to make that argument in their client`s favor regardless of whether they think their client is a liar pants on 100 other points.
So the fact that she lied about ninjas and changed her stories, it doesn`t allow the defense attorneys to circumvent her defense that she was, in fact, a battered person and she did all this in self-defense.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. You have answered my question. Thank you so much.
On the other side of the break, we are going to talk about O.J. Simpson and how the O.J. Simpson case has had repercussions and reverberations that affect criminal trial like the Jodi Arias case today.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He told that (inaudible) wasn`t dating her and he thought that she was following him around. That`s when she had been caught snooping around and peeking into his windows at his house. He had told my older brother, Gary on the phone that he thought it was her that was for sure slashing his tires and he really had a strong feeling that it was Jodi.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Up next we`re going to talk about the O.J. Simpson case and the impact that the O.J. Simpson defense has had on so many criminal trials after it and how it really changed the rules of the game. It`s really not a game -- we`re talking life and death. But the rules did change. That`s next.
ARIAS: The other night, a lot of people that have been speaking out and saying things on their side. And this isn`t a two-sided story. This is a multifaceted story. There are many sides to the story. And I just don`t feel like mine has been represented.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: As we gear up for Jodi Arias` defense, many wonder if her team is going to pull a fast one as it were. It seems defense lawyers have changed the rules of combat when it comes to high-profile murder defendants. And many say the big moment the rules changed was during the O.J. Simpson murder trial. Remember this?
JOHNNIE COCHRAN, O.J. SIMPSON`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: O.J. Simpson in a knit cap from two blocks away is still O.J. Simpson. It`s no disguise, it`s no disguise, it makes no sense, it doesn`t fit, if it doesn`t fit you must acquit.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: If it doesn`t fit, you must acquit -- rhyming closing arguments by the late Johnnie Cochran, O.J. Simpson`s brilliant defense attorney, who obviously won the case. Cochran was talking about O.J. Simpson trying on the infamous glove in front of the jury. One bloody glove was found at the home where his ex-wife Nicole Simpson and her friend Ron Goldman were murdered. The other glove was found at O.J.`s nearby estate.
There was testimony that the gloves had shrunk due to moisture and the defense insisted O.J. first put on latex gloves and then before the jury tried the leather gloves on and the gloves did not fit. And it became the defining moment of the trial.
Another O.J. defense mantra -- garbage in, garbage out; if the forensics against you are overwhelming, attack the way police collect the evidence. It`s a trick that now every high profile defense attorney uses. Did O.J.`s trial and this whole new approach to lawyering set the stage for other monumental trial verdicts like the Casey Anthony acquittal?
I got to go to Darren Kavinoky, you`re there in L.A. I`m sure you remember the O.J. Simpson.
KAVINOKY: Oh, yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It seems like the rules of the game really changed then and there.
KAVINOKY: Well, the O.J. Simpson case certainly put a highlight on things that lawyers were already doing. I don`t know there had been a case before that captured America`s attention, the world`s attention in the way that O.J. Simpson did. Although your point about the --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, you`re telling me that defense attorneys put on caps and rhyme during their closing arguments before O.J. Simpson? I have never seen a defense attorney wearing a cap.
KAVINOKY: It was certainly something that was broadcast around the world. You had a greater level of interest; a heightened level of coverage that the world had never seen before. But the techniques that were used in O.J. Simpson, which were essentially if the facts aren`t on your side, argue the law; if the law`s not on your side, argue the facts and to focus particularly on the weaknesses of the investigation. That`s been something that`s been in a good lawyer`s repertoire since time immemorial.
LONGARZO: Hey, listen, listen. I will do anything during a trial to get -- I will do anything during a trial to get the jury`s attention. I have done push-ups during trials. I have done a lot of different things. What I`m taking issue with here is all of these characteristics that you`re all attributing to the defendant on trial here, let`s remember she has no history of violence. She`s not hiding her past. She doesn`t have any history of violence. The tragic victim did have a punching bag in his house. She doesn`t have this history.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh my God. We`re going to convict everybody with a punching bag?
LONGARZO: No, no but
LONGARZO: When there`s a true defense. There is a true defense.
CHICOTSKY: We can name a lot of killers who had no prior history. There are many killers out there who had no prior history. You know sometimes it`s a little bit like a volcanic anger that erupts.
LONGARZO: But he has a history of being raised by meth addicts. He has a history of leading a double life. He`s an insurance salesman.
CHICOTSKY: What kind of double life?
LONGARZO: There`s picture proof she was sexually degraded. So there is definitely --
CHICOTSKY: I don`t think --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re going to pick it up on the other side.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Our panel started debating whether Travis Alexander really lived a double life or if that`s all been blown out of proportion. Yes, he was a Mormon. Yes, he wasn`t supposed to have premarital sex but there are many religions that preclude premarital sex and people still do it. That doesn`t mean they`re living double lives necessarily. We`ll debate it.
FLORES: This is absolutely some of the best evidence I`ve ever had in a case. And I`ve convicted a few people on less than this.
ARIAS: Well, so I`m as good as done?
FLORES: That`s not for me to say. But eventually those photos will come out.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did Travis Alexander, who is not here to speak for himself, have a double life or was he just a guy with urges not living up to all the moral strictures or the religious strictures of his faith? And was he trying to placate a woman who apparently would become very upset when he tried to leave her?
We have some new information from Shanna Hogan who is writing a book about this case "Picture Perfect". Shanna, what have you learned?
SHANNA HOGAN, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Yes, we know that she doesn`t have a history of actual violence but she did have a history of being extremely manipulative. I spoke to a lot of Travis` friends and one of the things I`ve heard multiple times is when Travis tried to break up with her, she would actually try to threaten and commit suicide and Travis would came back and said I could not live with that on my conscience and he would placate her.
So she did use those type of strategies to manipulate him and keep that hold on him.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t know why -- darn. My gosh, Marla Chicotsky, why didn`t the prosecution bring that in? You know, let me tell you something, the jury hasn`t heard the stalking evidence that she stalked him. Now, they didn`t hear this, that every time he tried to break it off like a gentleman, she threatened to commit suicide. Maybe that`s the reason why she`s in his bed that day. Why didn`t they bring that in?
CHICOTSKY: They don`t necessarily need to bring in the bad character evidence of her. Sometimes it`s not admissible in a court of law. What they have in this case is such overwhelming evidence of guilt. You have an admission. You have DNA evidence. You have pictures with time/date stamps on it that show Jodi with Travis the day of the murder.
The prosecution doesn`t need to attack Jodi in this case. There`s so much evidence towards guilt that evidence speaks for itself. I think that there`s no proof that they have, you know, a sexual relationship that was abusive, so why go into whether she was going to commit suicide and why she stalked him? Things of that nature because frankly it`s not relevant to prove the elements of murder in this case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it wouldn`t hurt. All right, more on the other side.
FLORES: They think that you are absolutely obsessed. Obsessed is the word that they use. That`s the word I hear from everyone -- fatal attraction. I don`t know how many times I`ve heard that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m not going to be ignored here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He thought he had a stalker.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So obsessive.
LESLIE UDY, JODI ARIAS FRIEND: The person that I had known was a very quiet, soft spoken, gentle person. And so that person that I knew, I couldn`t imagine could have done something like that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jean Casarez, that was technically a prosecution witness, and she ended up saying that she thought Jodi Arias was a kind and gentle person. Who is on the defense witness list aside from this expert? Friends? Anybody like that?
CASAREZ: Besides the domestic violence expert, there is a psychologist. There is a forensics polygraph expert which is really interesting because polygraphs aren`t allowed in criminal prosecutions. Arizona has the rule that if both sides agree ahead of time to allow it in, then it can come in, but I don`t think that`s been done here. That person is on their witness list.
Also a forensic computer specialist is on the witness list, some lay witnesses and a former girlfriend of Travis Alexander, someone that he truly loved in his past.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, my gosh. That is the most interesting of everything you have told me, and again, I`ve been told by very high-powered attorneys, they often don`t decide whether their client is going to take the stand until the 11th hour. They want to see if they can get by without it. And if they can`t, then they say, "Ok, Hail Mary Pass".
Nancy`s next.
" Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Moynihan
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Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
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What`s the Evidence in the Jodi Arias Trial?; More Police Tapes Released
Aired January 21, 2013 - 20:00 ET
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Mesa, Arizona. They meet up on a work trip in Vegas and fall hard, but when the flame burns out and they break up, she then moves 300 miles to get back together, even converting to Mormonism to get her man.
But then 30-year-old Travis Alexander found slumped over dead in the shower of his five-bedroom home, shot, stabbed 29 times. Then, just hours after Arias stabs Travis to death in the shower, she has sex contact with a brand-new boyfriend, literally hopping on top of him while Travis`s body decomposes in the shower.
Testimony reveals 27-year-old Arias has wild sex with Travis all day long, even photographing the sex with her beloved camera, but then just minutes after, she slashes his throat.
Bombshell tonight. Jodi Arias`s elaborate web of lies all caught on tape. We have the video. Now, as that Arizona jury seems to be siding with Arias, what`s the evidence?
JODI ARIAS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: If Travis were here today, he would tell you that it wasn`t me. I was not at Travis`s house. I was not. The truth is, I did not hurt Travis.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you kill Travis Alexander?
ARIAS: Absolutely not. No, I had no part in it.
I didn`t kill Travis.
(INAUDIBLE) I did not take his life.
I did not hurt Travis. I wouldn`t do that to him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You had nothing to do with Travis Alexander`s death?
ARIAS: Nothing to do with it.
And I`m not worried about it because I didn`t do it.
I wouldn`t hurt Travis. He`s done so much for me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are you managing to stay so calm?
ARIAS: Through the knowledge of my own innocence.
I have to maintain my innocence! I can`t admit doing something that I haven`t done! There`s no reason I would ever want to hurt him.
I`m not guilty. I didn`t hurt Travis. If I hurt Travis, if I killed Travis, I would beg for the death penalty.
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Jodi Arias`s elaborate web of lies all caught on tape. We have the video. As that Arizona jury seems to be siding with Arias, what is the evidence?
We are taking your calls. A multitude of questions that have come straight from the jury. They have the opportunity to ask questions themselves. Not only do they ask a lot of questions to Detective Flores about Travis Alexander`s roommate, they also asked questions about the fingerprint expert, to the fingerprint expert, questioning that, as well. As you know, Arias`s palm print, bloody palm print, her blood and Travis`s blood, with her hair in it, found there in the home.
Also, questions to Arias`s former love interest, Ryan Burns, to the forensic chemist. What were the questions to Ryan Burns?
Joining me at the courthouse, Beth Karas. Beth, what did they want to know from Ryan Burns, her next boyfriend?
BETH KARAS, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": You know, I don`t recall the questions that they asked of Ryan Burns. you know, for most witnesses they didn`t have any questions. There may have been one or two questions...
GRACE: I`ve got them right here.
KARAS: They do ask him something about -- actually -- OK.
GRACE: I`ve got them. Matt, correct me if I`m wrong, they asked, Where did the information about Travis being a flirt come from? He said, I can`t remember.
With regard to exhibits -- this is the one that disturbs me, Matt -- Do you know where the date and timestamps on the text messages come from? Are they the send dates? Why did you send a good night at 8:13 AM? Do you know what date those instant message conversations occurred?
They`re questioning the timestamps, Matt Zarrell. And with that in mind, that`s just what Jodi Arias was doing. She was saying those sex photos were taken all on a different day than his murder.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes. In fact, Nancy, she went even a step further. At one point, when she was shown the photos, she says, Are you sure these are me because I wasn`t there.
GRACE: You know, it`s very disturbing. We`re taking your calls. Out to Linda in Texas. Linda, I understand that you have a theory that this murder is somehow connected to Jodi Arias`s involvement in witchcraft or wicca.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. And I`m a Christian, but reading up on the people that practice witchcraft, they`ll target usually someone who is a weakest member of the flock. And sexuality is a great way of pulling them away from it. And I do believe that somebody in his inner circle is closely connected to it.
GRACE: Now, if you -- let me just go with this, Linda in Texas. Are you saying that you believe Travis Alexander`s murderer is related to witchcraft and wicca? Now, why do you believe someone else in his inner circle is involved when she`s the only one that we know that has ever partaken in wicca?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s basically a secret society. If someone`s going to pull in a member, it`s usually someone who has control of the woman. And a woman will use their sexuality to get to the man.
GRACE: But I still don`t understand why you`re saying -- even if everything you`re saying is true -- even if -- why do you say someone had to help her?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because I don`t believe she was strong enough to empower (SIC) and take control of him without her having defense wounds against her.
And reflect back to the Casey Anthony trial and all the media, where Casey`s mother was saying it`s half -- mistruths or half-truths. When she was in interrogation, I do believe that when she was talking about the man that was portraying (SIC) the killing or the act upon Travis Alexander, I do believe that she was not lying about that part. The woman that she talked about, she was talking about herself.
GRACE: Linda in Texas...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Uh-huh?
GRACE: I completely disagree with you, but even if someone helped her kill Travis Alexander, she`s still guilty of murder one.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
GRACE: Just because two people engage in a heinous crime does not mean only half of them are guilty of murder. I mean, even if your scenario is true, she`s still guilty of murder. Do you see that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do. But if I were a juror, I would be looking at Jodi as possibly a victim pulled into this. And the reason I say that is she kept saying in interrogation she was in fear of someone hurting her family.
GRACE: Can I ask you, Linda, why you believe anything that Jodi Arias says?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The prosecution, I don`t think -- they`ve proved that she was in the room. She`s admitted she`s in the room. But I still have a reasonable doubt she acted alone.
GRACE: OK. Nobody -- that`s not even an issue in front of the jury. It doesn`t -- all it -- they want to know is did she take part in his murder. If she did, she`s guilty. And again, I`m asking you, Linda, as gently as possible, why would you believe anything Jodi Arias says?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If I were sitting on the jury, I would be looking at -- OK, let`s just throw it out there that even if she`s a bald-faced liar, she`s got her fingerprint and everything out there, I still think a man played a role in this, and I think it`s somebody in the inner circle.
GRACE: OK. Let`s go over the evidence. Beth Karas, what is the state`s theory as to how she could murder him? She`s a couple -- a few inches shorter than him. She weighs less than him. What`s their theory?
KARAS: Their theory is that as she was taking photos with his consent, while he was showering, she got him to sit in the shower to take one last photo. And two minutes after that photo was taken, there he is, on his back with his neck slashed. And that`s an accidental photo that her camera took.
So the theory is she got him in a vulnerable position, started to stab him. He grabbed at the knife because he has defensive wounds of cuts on his hands. And then he stumbled around, hung his head over the sink, bleeding into the sink, spitting. That`s the spatter. He probably stumbled, and she`s stabbing him in the back nine, ten times.
As he`s stumbling down the hall, he falls at the entrance to his bedroom. She slashes his throat, three-and-a-half inches deep, severs the airway, turns his body around and starts to drag him back and stuffs him in the shower -- shoots him in the head, though, before putting him in the shower.
GRACE: You know, Beth, it`s very, very disturbing. You`ve been listening to all of the evidence, that the jurors have been asking questions, the questions we knew of last week. Now there are these questions we`re going over, with the fingerprint expert, with Ryan Burns, to the forensic chemist, even to Jodi Arias`s friend, questions suggesting they are siding with Arias. It sounds like tot mom all over again.
Let`s take a listen to Arias in her own words.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were at Travis`s house. You guys had a sexual encounter, which there`s pictures. And I know you know there`s pictures because I have them. I will show them to you, OK? So what I`m asking you is for you to be honest with me. I know you were there.
ARIAS: Are you sure those pictures aren`t from another time?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Positive. Absolutely positive.
ARIAS: The last time I had any kind of kind of sexual contact with Travis was in April.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I have pictures of you in Travis`s bedroom with Travis, pictures of him. And it`s obvious you guys are having sex, taking photos of each other, and they`re dated and timestamped on the day he died.
ARIAS: Are you sure it`s me? I mean, because I was not there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s you. And you know it`s you. I know all the details of this case. The only thing I don`t know is why.
ARIAS: She had a knife, and I didn`t -- I don`t know. He was bleeding everywhere. It was, like, when she rushed me afterward, or she came back, I rushed her, she kind of came back at me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why didn`t you...
ARIAS: Tried to stab her right about here, maybe. I don`t know. (INAUDIBLE) And there was a little bit of a struggle with her and I. I was so scared. I`m not a person who fights. I`m not a person who knows really about self-defense. I took some classes once, but it was, like, eight years ago.
GRACE: As reports suggest, the jury seems to be siding with Jodi Arias. A fresh look at her interrogation tapes -- and this as a diary emerges. Matt Zarrell, what can you tell me about a diary?
ZARRELL: Well, Nancy, it`s very significant because the diary entries that we`ve obtained from Jodi Arias`s journal are just days after the murder, and the first one is just a couple days after the body was found.
And in the diary, she talks about what happened, that Travis is dead. What happened to Travis? Travis, what is this? She talks about how upset she is, how badly she wants to call Travis. But knowing he wouldn`t answer me was too much to bear. Knowing he wasn`t calling me anytime soon was just killing me. She broke down and cried. She couldn`t sleep.
And June 12, just a few days after the body was found, she says, It just feels like he hasn`t called me in too long. I hear him singing. I hear him laugh.
Now, keep in mind, this is after she stabs him 29 times and shoots him in the face.
GRACE: You know, it goes on. Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Deal Breakers," she writes -- this is in her own diary. She`s admitted she stabbed him 29 times. "Travis already told me he liked the name Iris for a girl, that and Hinckley Reagan (ph) or Megan. I`ll take Iris, thank you very much. He liked Ivan for a boy`s name. If I ever have a son, I`ll name him Alexander."
Dr. Bethany, please help me.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Nancy, she is such a stalker that she continues a relationship with him in fantasy after she`s killed him! I mean, the essential feature of stalking is that the perpetrator has the illusion of a relationship with somebody who is not attached back, gets stuck in feelings of rejection and then destroys the victim to punish him for the perceived rejection.
Well, she`s continuing to do that even with the diary writing. It`s as if they have this magical, illusory relationship that`s going to go on and on and on.
And then secondarily, it could be even that she is creating an alibi. And we know about stalking, that that kind of disorder, the only thing that fixes it is that the perpetrator gets reattached to a new victim, OK? So she`s attaching to the journal and then at some point -- if this -- there hadn`t been these intervening events of being arrested and incarcerated, she would found another guy, stopped writing the diary and attached to him.
GRACE: All right, usually, it is pay dirt when a prosecutor gets their mitts on the defendant`s diary.
Unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight, Kirby Clements, Atlanta, Mickey Sherman, New York. Mickey Sherman, have you ever known anyone to fake their own diary? I mean, these -- if you could show those entries again, Drew -- these entries, she -- she -- we -- her lawyer told us she killed him.
MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: But obviously, the jury doesn`t necessarily believe her lawyer or anything else. They`re coming to their own conclusion. They`re solving this crime themselves with the knowledge that they get from watching TV.
And you know, if she did do these diaries, you know, maybe she`s nuts. Did you ever think there might be a little bit of insanity involved here?
GRACE: Well, no, actually, I don`t, because of her elaborate scheme. But Kirby Clements, what I do think is she is crazy like a fox, in that she plants all this in her diary, knowing that if police ever came, they would read it.
KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, not -- you know, I agree that if she did this, that that is pretty -- that is pretty nefarious. I mean, I got to tell you, Nancy, this is a case that you -- it`s like, you know, shooting fish in a barrel.
But I do want to point out, as to what the jury is doing -- you know, the jury can disregard what the defendant says. They can disregard a confession. They can disregard the defense, and they can still acquit someone.
So the fact that the jury is doing what they`re doing right now suggests that they may be very well poised to do just that, reject the defense of self-defense and go with a concept that perhaps she was not involved in his murder at all.
ARIAS: And a lot of people were dropping my name and I said I`m not worried about it because I didn`t do it, I said, but it`s very much just hurting my reputation and it`s casting me in a bad light.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wouldn`t be worrying about your reputation right now. I`d be worrying about the rest of your life. That means nothing, absolutely nothing.
ARIAS: Well, my reputation will affect the rest of my life, so I am worried about my reputation.
GRACE: Out to Beth Karas, legal correspondent, "In Session," joining us tonight there at the courthouse. Beth Karas, she is being questioned by a homicide detective about the stabbing death of her lover, and she is worried about her reputation. Clearly, her worries are misplaced.
What is she acting like in front of the jury? I know you guys told me that she has her seat screwed down really low so she looks like she`s very small and petite compared to her lady defense lawyer. What else is she communicating in front of the jury?
KARAS: Which is something we saw Casey Anthony do, as well. She seemed to be sitting lower than her lawyers.
Well, she sits as far away from the jury as possible. After two days -- and there are nine altogether so far -- she started wearing eyeglasses. On the ninth day, she had new eyeglasses. But that kind of hides her face because she looked actually very pretty and seductive those first few days. Not that glasses don`t make her still pretty. She`s an attractive woman.
Her blouses are not the kinds of tops that we`ve seen in photographs, you know, the sexy tops, so she looks more like, you know, a school marm. And she`s very quiet. She keeps her head down. She cries a lot -- not every day, but she does cry a lot. So she`s just very quiet sitting over there, not being -- you know, trying not to be noticed, I suppose.
GRACE: Well, it`s a real bombshell that the jury seemingly is siding with Jodi Arias. Susan Constantine, body language expert joining me out of Orlando. You have pored over every single movement in court. What do you observe?
SUSAN CONSTANTINE, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Well, what I observe with Jodi is in the courtroom that, you know, she creates these barriers. And we talked about this, that she has this shield of protection around her. That includes her hair, her eyeglasses, her hand movements over her face. And then, also, too, is that the way she holds her body is kind of in a fetal position a lot of times. So it`s self-protection.
So this is what I`m seeing in Jodi Arias`s body language is that she kind of shields herself and protects herself from things that she doesn`t like to hear.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have anything to do with the death of Travis?
ARIAS: Not -- I don`t think I had anything directly to do with it, but I feel responsible somewhat for it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what can you tell me about his death?
ARIAS: You know a lot more about it than I do. When I say I feel responsible, it`s because I was -- I wasn`t planning to go there at all, and he really wanted me to go.
The reason I feel is because if it weren`t for Ryan, I would have bolted and I would have just scrapped all my plans and spent all of my days there. But I didn`t. I stood strong, and he got mad and he got sad and he guilted me. He didn`t get really mad, he just kind of guilted me. And finally, I was, like, Whatever. Fine. And we hung up.
I feel that if I would have gone there, that I could have -- that I could have done something because...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you were there, Jodi.
GRACE: Straight out to our special guest joining us tonight, Tamara Mauro, a very dear friend of Travis Alexander. Tamara, thank you for being with us.
TAMARA MAURO, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Thank you.
GRACE: Tell me what you know of Travis Alexander. He has now been accused of being a woman beater, beating Jodi Arias. That`s her self-defense claim. He`s also been dragged through the mud, his entire reputation that he was a sexual deviant. What was your knowledge of Travis?
MAURO: I like to think that I knew him pretty well. We were friends for a couple years before he passed away. And he was nothing like any of those things. He liked to joke and play around. And I never saw him lash out at anybody. I can`t even remember a single time that he yelled at anybody, let alone attacked them physically and, you know, being fun and being a flirt is a far cry from being a sexual deviant. And I never would have imagined he could be anything like that. It just is absurd to me.
GRACE: Now you did odd jobs for him. What type of things did you do for him? And how did you two meet to start with?
MAURO: I met him through some of his roommates and just always hanging out over at his house and everything. And when I was in college, and just kind of struggling to make ends meet, he offered to pay me to just do random things that he could have done for himself. Taking care of his dog. Going to pick up the dry cleaning. You know, picking up around his house and just --
GRACE: To help you out?
MAURO: You know, things that freed him up to -- yes, to help me out.
GRACE: In fact, you helped him do the faux painting in the master bathroom?
MAURO: Yes, I did. I remember he was so proud of that. It was a leather faux finish. And he was so excite d about it.
GRACE: And I assume that now you`ve seen the photos of that very bathroom where his dead body was found?
MAURO: Yes. Yes. It`s kind of tough.
GRACE: You have been in the home quite often doing work for Travis Alexander, and you say it`s very, very easy to be in his home yet not run into any of his roommates. Please explain that.
MAURO: Well, there were a couple of times where Travis was going out of town, and he would ask me to stay over and watch after his dog because, I mean, who wants to trust a bunch of college guys to -- with your prized possession. And, I mean, there were times that I would be there, I`d just stay in the master and nobody would even know I was there. It just was separated from the rest of the house. And -- you know, everybody just can kept to themselves.
GRACE: You took care of his dog, correct?
MAURO: Yes, Napoleon.
GRACE: And was he good to the dog? Did he take care of him? Did he love him?
MAURO: He absolutely adored that dog. And the dog was -- the dog liked to poop a lot in the house, not to be crude or anything, but all the time. He couldn`t figure out how to train that poor thing to actually go outside. So I`d be cleaning up after him and everything and no matter how angry even I would get, just like, oh, my gosh, I have to clean up after you again, he wouldn`t even lift a finger against Napoleon. He absolutely adored him.
GRACE: So what do you make of Arias` claims that she killed Travis Alexander in self-defense including nine stab wounds to the back?
MAURO: I can`t imagine anything like that ever happening. I mean, I think even in just what I understand, I mean, how can you attack somebody on their back if they`re attacking you, first of all. But it just makes absolutely no sense that the person I knew was completely different than this person that only she knew, and only she knew about him like that, and nobody else had ever seen that side of him. Nobody had ever encountered anything. It just does not make sense.
GRACE: No, it doesn`t.
With me is Tamara Mauro, a friend of Travis`. Also taking your calls.
Out to the lines, Lynn in Texas. Hi, dear. What`s your question? Oh, Lynn in Tennessee, excuse me.
LYNN, CALLER FROM TENNESSEE: Hi, Nancy. How are you doing?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
LYNN: Well, I have a couple of questions and a comment. Is that OK?
GRACE: OK. Sure.
LYNN: OK. My comment is, I think that she used sex for him to change his mind about taking that girl, and I don`t believe that he took these pictures. I believe she had that camera set on a timer texting pictures because his pictures look like he didn`t want his picture taken. You know, he kind of has his hand up.
And the other one is, she would drive that far to a guy`s house that she says abused her? She went over there, used sex to get him to take her to Cancun or either to stop him from taking the other girl to Cancun.
And the question is, do they have Casey Anthony`s jury up there?
GRACE: That`s my fear, Lynn in Tennessee, because based on the questions that have been coming out of that jury, questions they get to ask the witnesses, they seem to be siding with Jodi Arias and this is even after her defense attorney has told them she did the deed. But that it was in self-defense. Now they`re asking -- what, Lynn?
LYNN: I`m sorry. I`ve got one more thing to say.
GRACE: Sure.
LYNN: I don`t think that -- I don`t think you showed on your show but here in court they pulled his phone records up on the screen.
GRACE: Yes.
LYNN: And her eyeballs got so big watching his phone records, seeing who was calling him, who he was calling. She is obsessed, Nancy. That woman is obsessed even over a dead man.
GRACE: Lynn, Lynn, you should be an investigator.
Out to you, Bonnie Druker. You have been in the courtroom. You were there when the phone records came in. Was she surprised at who he was calling? She is still obsessed with him.
BONNIE DRUKER, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Oh, she`s totally obsessed with him, still, even with that diary. And when you look at those phone records, she kind of knew who was calling him because, remember, after his murder, she called his voicemail and there was a 16-minute call, and then investigators believe she was checking to see who was calling him. So she knew but, you know, all along she`s been doing things like, you know, kind of like this and moving her hair but, yes, in general she`s been shocked about certain things.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you at Travis` house on Wednesday?
JODI ARIAS, ACCUSED OF KILLING TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Absolutely not. I was nowhere near Mesa. I was nowhere near Phoenix. I wasn`t even close to him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What if I could show you proof you were there? Would that change your mind?
ARIAS: I wasn`t there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can be honest with me, Jodi.
ARIAS: I was not at Travis` house. I was not.
GRACE: Travis Alexander`s body stabbed 29 times, slashed from ear to ear.
Let`s see what the jail amenities are. He decomposed in a damp shower stall while she has a choice of menus behind bars. There`s lunch. Peanut butter, ginger snaps, Hoagie roll, orange, skim milk. Soy stew, pinto beans, broccoli, oranges, dinner roll, ginger snaps. Apparently they can check out books. They can work out. They have art. They have TV, phone, cable, recreation time, outdoor time.
Wow. OK. We are taking your calls. Did I go to Tonya in Texas?
Tonya, hi, dear, what`s your question?
TONYA, CALLER FROM TEXAS: First of all, I just want to let you know that I just adore your show and I watch you all the time.
GRACE: Thank you. Thank you very much for calling in. What`s your question, dear?
TONYA: I`d like to say something about these things that were in the car. There`s a lot of speculation that it could have been blood. But I`m also kind of curious as to, could it have been the hair dye and if the authorities ever asked her why she colored her hair on this road trip and where did she color her hair?
GRACE: That`s a good question, Tonya.
Out to Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter, Radaronline.com. She did color her hair on the road trip. And you know what else, Alexis, dark hair color can look reddish when it is on material, like a car seat.
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, SENIOR REPORTER, RADAROLINE.COM: You`re absolutely right. And she did this on the fly. She didn`t have -- there`s no records of her going to a hotel or anything like that. So it`s quite possible that she could have done it in a gas station bathroom and it could have gotten all over the car.
But I believe, you know, they don`t have blood tests from the carpet. I`m assuming that what they believed is that it is Travis` blood that was in the car.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Ann in Massachusetts. Hi, Ann, what`s your question?
ANN, CALLER FROM MASSACHUSETTS: Hi, Nancy. About the blood stains in the car. He testified, the rental agent, that the blood stains were on the passenger side and the backseat. He never said it was on the driver`s side. I`m wondering if she could have helped someone get away, if she had someone helping her and those were the blood stains?
GRACE: Matt Zarrell, what about it? Is there any evidence that anyone else was in the home? If they were, what did they sit by during that marathon sex session? Were they there in the shower? Were they there in the bathroom?
I mean, I don`t know that that makes sense, but more and more people are starting to wonder if someone helped her. That doesn`t absolve her of a murder one conviction. But I`m wondering where this is coming from.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: Well, Nancy, I know that the cops investigated both roommates, determined both were not present around the time of the murder. And when Jodi Arias gave the second story about this man and this woman who came in and attacked them, the -- Detective Flores who had been working as a police officer for over 19 years called it the most farfetched story he has ever heard in his entire career.
GRACE: I want to go to Marc Harrold, former beat cop, author of "Observations of White Noise."
Marc, are you always stunned when jurors come up with a completely different theory about what happened? For instance, you`ve got Linda in Texas hypothesizing this was all a witchcraft, Wicca, murder.
MARC HARROLD, FORMER OFFICER, ATLANTA PD, ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "OBSERVATIONS OF WHITE NOISE": Yes. I`m --
GRACE: And that someone was helping her. And that she is somebody`s Wicca slave and that she is really afraid for her life and now you`ve got Tonya saying -- basically that someone else was involved because of some stains in the car.
HARROLD: Yes, I think Mickey is right. I think a lot of people are right. This is a CSI effect. What`s happening here, it`s great that jurors ask questions if they`re allowed in the jurisdiction that they are. It`s great that they ask questions. But that`s not really what`s going on here. They`re not asking questions about the evidence that`s being presented to them. They`re not asking questions about the -- what they`re actually hearing and asking questions to clarify it or so it makes sense to them.
What they`re doing is they`re asking all these questions about what`s not being presented to them because it`s not just that this jury seems to expect this crime to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. They seem to want to be able to actually exclude every other possibility, and I think Linda from Texas, who I -- you know, I respectfully disagree with. I think she said she had reasonable doubt because there was this some other possibility.
The jury, you know, it`s going to get to a point where during voir dire you`re going to really have to ask the jurors if they just know about this case but if they have all kinds of preconceived notions about the justice system in general.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Tonya in California. Hi, dear. What`s your question?
TONYA, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi, Nancy. I was so glad to hear that someone finally was paying attention to these jurors` questions. It`s very disturbing because they don`t pertain to what their job is. They`re acting like --
GRACE: Well, Tonya, I`m very concerned we`re going to have a repeat of tot mom.
TONYA: Yes.
GRACE: I mean, I`ve gone through some of the questions but there are a lot more questions.
I mean, Matt Zarrell, didn`t they ask the chemist questions, the finger print person questions, Ryan Burns, they even asked her new boyfriend about date and time stamps suggesting -- we know where this is going -- to the date and time stamps on the death photos. And of the sex photos.
ZARRELL: Well, Nancy, the issue that they had with the time stamp was there was a text message from Ryan Burns, between Ryan Burns and Jodi Arias that was sent at about 8:13 a.m. in the morning that said good night, and the jurors were confused about why there would be a message sent at 8:13 in the morning that said good night but the witness did not know, did not have an explanation for why the time stamp said that.
ARIAS: He got my registration out from my wallet and he said --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did he say?
ARIAS: He said you must be that bitch from California.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This one, you absolutely cannot, cannot explain that away. You either have blood on your hands, and you touched the wall or there was blood on the wall when you touched.
ARIAS: Could my palm print have already been there, and I touched it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jodi, Jodi. This is over. This is absolutely over. You need to tell me the truth.
ARIAS: Listen, the truth is, I did not hurt Travis. OK, so worst case --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jodi, you can continue to do this, OK?
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Ann in Nebraska. Hi, Ann, what`s your question?
ANN, CALLER FROM NEBRASKA: Yes, thank you, Nancy, for taking my call. I wish to know what age was Travis on the day he was murdered, also what age was Jodi on that day? Thank you.
GRACE: Yes, dear, as I recall, and out to you, Matt Zarrell, I believe she was 27 and he was 30?
ZARRELL: Yes, correct, Nancy.
GRACE: I want to go to Tamara Mauro, friend of Travis Alexander`s.
Your mom works in the system. What do you make of her, Jodi Arias, having so many amenities?
MAURO: Hey, I think it`s somewhat unfair. It`s just frustrating, especially seeing her with all of her television interviews and everything that she`s been doing the last four years, you know, having her hair done and her makeup done, being able to, you know -- she doesn`t have freedoms and she can`t just go wherever she wants, but she is taken care of.
She has basically everything given to her that she needs. And after knowing what she did, it just doesn`t seem right that she can have these kind of -- that kind of treatment.
GRACE: You know, she`s right.
Alexis Tereszcuk, radaronline.com. Take a look at Arias primping for the cameras. She`s given interviews to "48 Hours," "Inside Edition," you name it.
TERESZCUK: You`re exactly right. She is not being treated like every other criminal who is behind bars. She`s doing whatever she wants, running around free, while the man that she killed -- and she has admitted. Her defense has even admit it. She did kill Travis Alexander. He can`t do anything anymore. He can`t talk to his family, he can`t play with that dog that he loves, he can do nothing.
GRACE: We remember American hero, Marine Lance Corporal Timothy Serwinowski, 21, North Tonawanda, New York. Purple Heart, Honorable Service award. Parents Sally and Phillip, step parents Jim and Laurie. Four brothers, three sisters.
Timothy Serwinowski, American hero.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened when the last picture was taken?
ARIAS: He was kneeling down in the shower. I don`t remember if this is his shower and the sink is over here. I was like right here taking pictures. I know that I`m innocent, God knows I`m innocent, Travis knows I`m innocent. No jury is going to convict me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not?
ARIAS: Because I`m innocent and you can mark my words on that one, no jury will convict me.
GRACE: That was Jodi Arias on "Inside Edition," one of the many, many interviews she`s given from behind bars.
You know, it`s interesting, Susan Constantine, as we`re showing these interrogation videos where she`s caught on tape in her many, many stories, she`s basically lying down op the table.
SUSAN CONSTANTINE, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Yes.
GRACE: On many occasions, just lying there, just completely lying down. What does that say?
CONSTANTINE: Well, that said that`s submission and it`s also confession, OK? When you feel like you`ve completely lost it, everybody is on to you, she`s in that confession mode. That`s where they kind of come into that shell.
And I liken it to like a turtle. You know, she`s always hiding behind that shell. She just kind of pokes her head out just to see that they have light, and when she doesn`t feel safe, she pokes her head right back in and she goes into that protective shell. That`s what she does consistently throughout the investigation.
GRACE: Bonnie Druker --
CONSTANTINE: And here`s the other one.
GRACE: Go ahead.
CONSTANTINE: And here`s the other one. When the investigator said, well, you know, Jodi, you know, there is blood on your hands. Right then she shifted, leaned back and put her hands right underneath the table. When you put your hands under the table it`s when you`re hiding something.
GRACE: You know, Bonnie Drucker, very, very disturbing that the jury seems to be siding with Jodi Arias. We`ve got another tot mom jury on our hands. Did the prosecution show any emotion when these questions were being read out loud, or the defense?
DRUKER: No, no one is showing any emotion, but I wonder, are we all sitting in the same courtroom sometimes? I mean, it`s like right there on videotape, all these lies, and I`m amazed by a lot of these questions just as you are.
GRACE: Everyone, tonight, switching gears, we are wishing a very happy birthday to California friend, PR guru, Josh Severa.
"DR. DREW" up next, everyone. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 p.m. sharp. And until then, good night, friend.
" Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Moynihan
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Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
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January 23, 2013, 03:28:23 PM »
Jodi Arias Revealed
Aired January 21, 2013 - 21:00 ET
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): She`s accused of brutally murdering her ex-boyfriend, but who is the real Jodi Arias? Who was she before all this?
We are speaking exclusively to a woman who says she was Jodi`s babysitter. She tells me what she saw in Arias as a child and how that behavior may be reflected in what we`re seeing as an adult.
And later, the Manti Te`o hoax -- still more questions than answers. I`m going to try to make sense out of it.
Let`s get started.
PINSKY: And welcome to the program. I hope you`re having a nice Martin Luther King Day. I had a chance to look at the inauguration today. It was really a nice ceremony.
And my co-host for this week is Lisa Bloom, attorney with bloomfirm.com and legal adviser with avo.com.
Also joining us: psychologist Wendy Walsh; attorney Mark Eiglarsh from speaktomark.com. And author Shanna Hogan, her book is "Picture Perfect." It`s about the Arias case.
But, first, as we said in the intro, I will be speaking exclusively to Beth Hawkins who says she babysat for Jodi Arias and her little brother several times.
Beth, I know we`re having a little technical problem with your Skype. And I see the phone on your ear there. I appreciate you kind of putting up with the dual tasking here. We wanted to see you while we talked to you.
So, tell me this. Were you a neighbor? What happened here? How did you end up babysitting and what did you see?
BETH HAWKINS, SAYS SHE BABYSAT JODI ARIAS: Well, Dr. Drew, first of all, thank you so much for having me on.
With Jodi, I actually became acquainted with her through our next-door neighbor, and she was originally babysitting for her, and there was a point in time when she was not able to baby sit for her so they had called and asked if she had known anybody, and she referred me.
And for about a year or so, we -- I had babysat for Jodi and her smaller -- her little brother Carl, and that`s pretty much how I knew her. Then later on found out that actually Jodi`s father and my brother-in-law were cousins.
PINSKY: Oh, how interesting.
Now, we`re looking at a picture of Jodi there as a young girl with the pigtails. Is that her dad? It must be her father we`re seeing in the picture there.
Now, I understand you observed some interesting interaction between she and her brother. Tell me about that.
HAWKINS: Yes, absolutely. There were several times that I had observed, when I was babysitting, sort of very aggressive behavior from Jodi towards her brother.
One incident in particular, I was called to babysit on a weekend night, I believe it was, and I was in the kitchen cooking them dinner, and they were in Jodi`s room, I believe, and they were just kind of interacting with each other. And all of a sudden, I just heard Carl just let out this bloodcurdling scream. I went in there and he had a pretty good knot on the top of his head. Jodi was standing there and Carl was crying, and he kept trying to tell me that she hit him. He was probably about three or four at the time.
PINSKY: Hit him with what, like her fist?
HAWKINS: No, with a baseball bat.
LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY: Whoa!
PINSKY: Baseball bat. And she was how old at the time?
HAWKINS: She was probably five, six years old at the time.
PINSKY: OK. Just a reminder, we can`t independently confirm nor refute what is being said here, but let me ask another couple quick questions about this. Did Jodi, the child, then apologize or seem contrite?
HAWKINS: No, absolutely not. In fact, when I asked her, Jodi, did you hit your brother, she`s like, no, I don`t know why he`s crying.
PINSKY: Wendy Walsh, warning sign or do you think this is just child play, so to speak?
WENDY WALSH, PH.D., PSYCHOLOGIST: I think this is very developmentally normal. I think that it`s really hard to judge somebody`s personality type, first of all, by -- at the age of 5 years old because they`re all dimpled, curly lunatics at that age. They -- and I think even looking at a slice of it is very hard.
Although I would say that if there`s violence and aggression, I`m wondering, was it something that was a learned behavior? Was -- do you happen to know --
PINSKY: Right.
WALSH: -- whether there was some corporal punishment happening in the house?
PINSKY: Beth?
HAWKINS: Well, you know, I can`t say that I ever saw any type of corporal punishment between the parents and Jodi and/or Carl. What I can say is that just about every occasion that I babysat, I pretty much couldn`t leave the two of them alone. I mean, if they were in the living room and I was in the kitchen or vice versa or they were in their bedroom, there was always an incident.
I mean, there were times I felt like I couldn`t even go to the bathroom without some sort of incident going on.
PINSKY: Lisa, go ahead.
BLOOM: So I have a question. I think it is pretty normal for kids to bang each other over the head, brothers and sisters. But what about afterwards? Did she show any empathy? Did she feel bad that her little brother had been hurt by her?
HAWKINS: You know, I don`t think so. I was a young woman at the time, I was 14, 15 years old when I babysat for them, and, you know, just growing up and I was (INAUDIBLE) them to my family, and when incidents like that happened in our group, there was always some kind of, you know, sort of regret or something, and I never really saw that in her.
BLOOM: Isn`t that significant to you?
PINSKY: It is a little significant, but again, it`s hard to judge what a 14-year-old is seeing in a 7-year-old.
But let me ask you, were you surprised to hear about the Jodi Arias case, Beth?
HAWKINS: Absolutely. In fact, when I learned about it, I was absolutely floored by it. I could not fathom that this had actually happened.
I was -- and since then I`ve been kind of following it and it`s so surreal to me that I`m watching this on TV.
PINSKY: Beth, I`m going to interrupt you and I`m going to ask Shanna to fill this in for us. You`ve written books about this. Can you take us from what Beth was observing to what you know the facts to be?
SHANNA HOGAN, JOURNALIST, TRUE-CRIEM AUTHOR (via telephone): Yes. Well, after her childhood, she grew up kind of normal. She dropped out of high school, as we know. She had maintained jobs, she had long relationships.
I`ve seen her kind of as a relationship hopper. She went from one boyfriend to the next and kind of was never single in her life. But these guys, her past boyfriends describe her as gentle and nice and kind. There wasn`t this crazy, violent streak in her.
She did have quite a manipulative streak. She would use lies to get what she wanted, but the violence thing was something that happened when she became, you know, with Travis.
PINSKY: OK. I want to show everyone a clip from the Jodi Arias police investigation video, and this, again, may or may not shed a little light on what we`ve been talking about here in that home. Take a look.
JODI ARIAS, ACCUSED MURDERER: I don`t really remember except Travis was screaming. I think I got knocked out, but I don`t think I was out long. I know I got knocked in the head and I`d gotten knocked in the head once by my dad when he was just really mad. And it wasn`t like -- actually he didn`t knock me in the head, he just pushed me against the wall and I hit my head and I fell.
PINSKY: Wendy, I`ve got just 20 seconds. You know, she`s liar and she`s lying during this interview, maybe she was lying about that.
But that is the big question, isn`t it? Was there aggression or violence in that home?
WALSH: Yes, and I have to actually ask you this, Dr. Drew, is that how much do you think these personality disorders, if in fact she does have one, are more genetic or more environment? Because we`re talking about environment here.
PINSKY: You`re asking a really great question. In my understanding, there is always a genetic environment interaction, and a given individual has varying inputs from both.
My understanding is that psychopathy, Lisa, where people don`t have any empathy for people, that`s a brain structural thing that has a genetic primarily base --
BLOOM: And if you see that in a child, 4-years-old, 7-years-old, that they don`t have empathy, that they can`t feel --
PINSKY: Well, empathy is what develops --
BLOOM: -- isn`t that something to be concerned about?
WALSH: Yes, that`s actually taught.
PINSKY: Yes, empathy develops much later.
BLOOM: Really?
PINSKY: And the kids do seem to tend to see come to the aid of other children.
BLOOM: Yes.
PINSKY: It comes quite a bit later. But the fact is it`s difficult - - listen, bumping your brother over the head with a mallet was not the same as pulling, you know, the whiskers out of a kitten. You know what I mean? One is way worse than the other. We just don`t know.
But thank you. I appreciate, Beth, the report. Thank you for joining us. And it`s interesting.
Coming up, we heard reports that Jodi was, quote, "dabbling in Mormonism". We`re also maybe hearing that she was into witchcraft.
And later on line and in love, was a pro-football prospect a victim in the hoax of all hoaxes? Have you been catfished? Call us now, 855- DRDREW5.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I made a little reach to find out if she was making thong panties or not. So, when I realized that she was, I made a little joke and I said that`s not magic anywhere. And she said, but there`s magic in them. So, I thought, OK, this is fun. She`s going to be fun.
VERONICA: Boy, when I went to retrieve the cat after two weeks. I said, what do you mean, retrieve the cat after two weeks to retrieve the cat? She said, well, I left it in a room with enough food and water. I said, for two weeks?
ZION LOVINGIER: She was into Wicca and she was very into energies and positive energy, and she was into a lot of self-help books.
I had a couple conversations, I remember, with her about her studies in Wicca.
PINSKY: Wiccan and energies, Lisa --
BLOOM: And leaving the cat for two weeks? Remember we were just talking about cats and the lack of empathy?
PINSKY: Yes.
BLOOM: I mean, who leaves a cat alone for two weeks? With food and water, but come on.
PINSKY: And she told veronica the cat was so sick -- stressed, that she was surprised -- Jodi was saying she didn`t feel bad and thought maybe she should.
BLOOM: That`s very telling.
PINSKY: Very telling.
All right. Let`s get more of this Wiccan thing from investigative journalist Shanna Hogan. Her new book, "Picture Perfect" is about the Arias case.
Shanna, what about Jodi and Wiccan?
HOGAN: Let me tell you, Dr. Drew, this just came out but I`ve been hearing about this for over two years. When she converted to Mormonism, she told a lot of people, a lot of Travis` friends, too, that her background was -- religious background was very tacky (ph) and that she was always into spiritualities and that she actually studied Wicca. One of the things she liked about the Wiccans` philosophy and what she told people was that the creed, that everything you do comes back to you threefold.
And it`s kind of interesting when you think about it, like the way Travis treated her, maybe she thought a mechanism of how he treated her was going to come back at him threefold in this awful way and she was (INAUDIBLE) putting that at him.
PINSKY: Very interesting. Mark Eiglarsh, I`m actually going to go to you on this. I know you and I have discussed what we think spirituality really is. This young lady seems to have gotten way off the track.
MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY: I agree. Drew, I`m sitting here watching both as a guest and a viewer of your show, and I have more questions than answers. I mean, Wicca, the bat over the head, the leaving the cat, none of that says to me, OK, so you can expect someone to slash someone`s throat from ear to ear and stab them 29 times and shoot them.
I don`t have the answers here. Help us. I don`t know.
PINSKY: That`s why you`re here, we`re all here. We`re all shaking our head the same way. I agree with you.
As you heard, I think it was Shanna or Beth was saying, that there was no antecedent history of violence, that people described her as relatively quiet.
BLOOM: And how about after they had sex, too? I mean, not to put too fine a point on it, but they had sex and she killed him right after that. That`s a very unusual time for somebody to fly into a rage and kill somebody, right?
EIGLARSH: Right.
BLOOM: Whether it was satisfying or not satisfying, I find that very odd.
PINSKY: Lisa wouldn`t normally do that.
BLOOM: Most women or men -- we watched a lot of murder cases over the years. I have, you have, Mark, right?
EIGLARSH: Right.
BLOOM: I can`t think of anyone where somebody right after having sex, that`s when they decided to kill someone.
PINSKY: Let`s go to a caller. I`ve got Jenny in Florida. Jenny, what do you got on your mind?
JENNY, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Hey, Dr. Drew. I`m curious. Does anybody know why Jodi dropped out of high school?
PINSKY: Shanna, do we know the answer to that question.
HOGAN: Well, it wasn`t because she wasn`t smart enough. I have been told that she was preoccupied with a guy she was dating.
PINSKY: Hold on a second. You mean she gets obsessed with guys? I`m shocked.
Mark, there`s something at least we can hang our head on there. The other thing as I heard was she, quote, "ran away" from home a lot, Shanna.
Now, for me, when kids run away from home and stay away that -- I don`t mean permanently, necessarily, but really try to stay away, not just --
BLOOM: Where it`s real.
PINSKY: Right, where they`re really trying to get away. Something good is not going on in the home, typically. Do we know anything about that?
HOGAN: I heard she had a really acrimonious relationship with her parents, that she didn`t like being controlled, she didn`t like being told what to do, and that what drove a lot of the running away. That`s also why she moved back to her grandparents, not her parents when she moved back to Yreka.
She, in spite her own childhood is very idyllic, but I heard it was the opposite. She told a lot of people that she had a bad relationship with her parents and was working on that.
PINSKY: Rose in Pennsylvania -- Rose.
EIGLARSH: Drew, you know --
PINSKY: One second, Mark.
Hey, Rose.
ROSE, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Hi. I have a question.
PINSKY: Yes?
ROSE: OK, now, has she ever taken any street drugs in the past or any kind of drugs over time?
PINSKY: Shanna -- yes, let`s ask Shanna who has written the books on her. I don`t know of any history or suggestion that`s been part of the story. The only feature that`s consistent with that is the lying, but I`ve never really felt that was part of the story here. What do you think?
HOGAN: I have not heard that she was into drugs, alcohol or anything like that. She was a bartender. But when she became, quote-unquote, "Mormon", however devoted she was to it, she wasn`t drinking alcohol. She wasn`t doing drugs. So that hasn`t been a factor that I`ve discovered.
BLOOM: It sounds like men were her drugs. Some women really latch on and their whole identity is built around the actual man.
PINSKY: It`s a love addiction.
Mark, you wanted to say something?
EIGLARSH: Yes, we were talking about her past and possible abuse. Where you`re going to hear that is in the penalty phase, because I`m certain she`s going to be convicted. And then from her lips via her attorneys, you`re going to hear all these horrible stories, again, because it`s about saving her life. And her attorneys will tell her, listen, anything you can give us.
If she`s willing to trash the victim the way that she has by alleging self-defense, that he was abusive, you know she`s going to manufacture whatever it takes about her history to save her from the death chamber.
PINSKY: And a reminder, we`re speculating here. We cannot confirm nor deny really almost everything we`ve been talking about here tonight. We cannot independently confirm these things.
Next, Jodi Arias possibly says she`s prepared for the ultimate punishment. A family friend goes on the record about that issue.
And later, could you fall in love with a person you`d only met online? It apparently allegedly happened to this gentleman, a college football star, and it did happen to my guest. You`ll meet her.
Stay with us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The person that I had known was a very quiet, soft-spoken, gentle person.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s very mysterious. She knew to win somebody over that you should get them to talk about themselves, and she was really good at asking you questions about you and keeping it on you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi is not afraid to die because then she`s with her maker.
PINSKY: Wow, that`s sort of a stunning statement. We are talking about the real Jodi Arias with my co-host this week, Lisa Bloom.
And our guests -- what do you make of those words when did Jodi say she`s not afraid to die?
WALSH: She seems to disassociate a lot. So, the most common human fear isn`t her fear of dying? And she`s disassociating from that fear now, too?
PINSKY: Or she`s so delusional and so grandiose that she feels like, you know, I don`t know, that she`ll go on living. Who knows what she`s talking?
BLOOM: Or she`s just a tough talker. Oh, I`m not afraid to die, right?
WALSH: Exactly.
PINSKY: Wendy, you wanted to comment about what we were talking about before the break. Go ahead.
WALSH: Yes. I think that, you know, she -- the question s she`s never out of a relationship. She seems to never be a single woman and never able to be on her own. I`m interested with the biographer, but what were the lengths of her relationships?
I know she went from man to man to man, but did she stick it out for two years, did she have any tolerance for conflict resolution, any tolerance for real closeness?
PINSKY: Shanna, what do you know?
HOGAN: The shortest relationship I know is Travis. She had a boyfriend for two years and then she had a boyfriend for four years. So she was involved in long-term relationships.
PINSKY: And, Beth, let me go back to you. You babysat Jodi when she was a child.
The thing that sets up love addiction sometime is abandonment. She ended up with her grandparents. Do you know anything about that part of her story?
HAWKINS: You know, the last time I saw Jodi was when she was probably about 10 or 11 years old, and it was at a family reunion, and she seemed very distant, very unsociable. She didn`t really want to hang out with the other children at a family reunion.
PINSKY: How did you end up at a family reunion? You were a babysitter.
HAWKINS: Well, I was kind of related through marriage, like I said before. My brother-in-law`s mother`s sister --
PINSKY: It`s OK, I don`t have a pen and paper. I can`t figure it out, but go ahead.
HAWKINS: Yes, I went to various family reunions. I probably went to probably five, six, seven of them, I can`t really begin to tell you, but throughout the years. The last time I saw her, she was about 10 or 11 and just really disassociated and not really sociable with the other children.
PINSKY: Interesting, there is that word again, the disassociation, the sort of disconnect.
Janet, do you want to ring in in here?
JAN, CALLER FROM MICHIGAN: Yes, I do. I noticed the picture you have of Jodi when she was a child being held by her father, isn`t there a striking resemblance between the father and Travis Alexander?
PINSKY: There`s the father. Boy, that would be interesting. Can somebody put up for us a picture of Travis where he perhaps -- I don`t know where you get a picture like that. They`re getting one up there.
Jan, that is very, very interesting, because I dealt with a stalker once, a woman who was love addicted and stalking, and she stalked a guy who looked like her father.
I don`t know. What do you think, Lisa?
BLOOM: I don`t necessarily see it. Maybe if you took the sunglasses and the facial hair off the father.
WALSH: Oh, yes.
PINSKY: Oh, Wendy is seeing it.
WALSH: I see it.
PINSKY: Now you`re scaring me, Wendy. But go ahead.
WALSH: But listen, it`s not just a visual trigger. Some things that can trigger an anxious attachment as I like to call it, could be vocal tone.
PINSKY: Yes.
WALSH: It could be a way of approaching, touching, being with the personality. It could trigger -- yes, all kinds of remembrances of, really, what they lost, because obviously every child loves their parents, they are meant to be attached to their parents, and I think you`re absolutely right, Dr. Drew, that abandonment is one of the things that leads to love addiction.
But the other thing could be intrusive parenting who actually don`t see the child as their own independent person but as a pawn of theirs.
BLOOM: OK. But I have a question. So what`s the difference between love addiction, which sounds so terrible --
PINSKY: Yes.
BLOOM: -- and people who just like to be in love? Don`t we all want love in our lives?
PINSKY: Yes, listen, romantic love is based on pathology, for the most part. And listen, we will romance in our culture. Let me just -- this is the way I explain to people. Let me just put it this way.
BLOOM: Romantic love is based on pathology?
PINSKY: Let me say it more clearly. Wendy agrees with me.
BLOOM: That`s not going to be the takeaway --
WALSH: It`s the world`s biggest illusion.
PINSKY: Let me just say it this way. Wait, Lisa, hold me on this. If Romeo and Juliet had been my and Wendy`s patient, not only would we have malpractice cases, we`d probably go to prison. These were two very sick individuals who acted out a very sick pathology and ended up dying.
BLOOM: OK, but --
PINSKY: So, that`s our notion of romantic love and it is as sick as can be in that Shakespeare play.
BLOOM: OK. But I`m in love. I`m in a happy relationship. Am I pathologized?
PINSKY: We`re not going to pathologize. Relax.
WALSH: No, but you`re in mature, companionship love, Lisa.
BLOOM: So how do you know the difference?
PINSKY: Apparently, in HLN, we`re not interested in healthy love. So hold on a second.
I`ve got to take a break. I want to thank Beth, I want to thank Shanna for joining us.
" Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Moynihan
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Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
Reply #88 on:
January 23, 2013, 03:34:23 PM »
Pediatrician Found Murdered
Aired January 22, 2013 - 19:00 ET
Plus murder defendant Jodi Arias, the artist? Some of her artwork is now selling for hundreds of dollars online. Is she turning jail into an art studio to capitalize on Travis Alexander`s death?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Listen, from cold-blooded killer to artist -- are you sitting down people -- Jodi Arias making money from behind bars. Listen to this.
JODI ARIAS: I would never stab him. If I had it in me anywhere to kill him, the at least I could have done was make it as humane as possible. Quick or something, you know?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight we are really hearing something very disturbing about what we can all expect when the defense begins to present its case in the Jodi Arias murder trial. Are they going to try to use the victim`s own words to trash him?
ARIAS: I was not at Travis`s house.
I was not at Travis`s house.
If I`m found guilty, I don`t have a life.
If I hurt Travis, if I killed Travis, I would beg for the death penalty. If Travis were here today, he would tell you it wasn`t me.
ESTEBAN FLORES, DETECTIVE: It was you.
ARIAS: That looks like me. Well, the cat scratched. She`s a feral cat.
If I was going to try to kill somebody, I would use gloves. I have plenty of them.
It`s hurting my reputation. I`m all for the 10 commandments -- "Thou shalt not kill." I`m still friends with my ex-boyfriends, they are all still alive. I guess there`s something that`s wrong with me psychologically. I think of the butterfly effect.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: An eye-popping new discovery in the Jodi Arias murder case. Is this so-called cold-blooded killer using her artistic skills to make money from behind bars by sketching? Even though she admits to killing her ex-boyfriend? Is she busy drawing artwork while her defense team gears up to trash the victim?
The stunning 32-year-old photographer confessed that yes, she stabbed her ex-boyfriend 29 times and sliced Travis Alexander`s throat from ear to ear, practically decapitating him and shooting him in the face. She claims it was all in self-defense. In fact, she originally said she had absolutely no motive.
ARIAS: What`s my motive?
FLORES: Jealousy? Anger? Fear? Fear of being alone? Angry at him for not keeping you in his life? I don`t know. That`s why I`m trying to figure it out. There were so many motives with you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The jury has gotten used to seeing photos like these of Travis`s autopsies, but now there are new pictures from Jodi herself up for auction. These hand drawn photos of models and celebrities like Grace Kelly are posted on eBay. They`re colored drawings. There they are right there. Take a look at them. One is going for $800.
According to ABC News, the profits are helping Jodi`s family during the trial. But is she actually capitalizing on Travis Alexander`s horrible death?
Straight out to psychologist and expert at datingadvice.com, Wendy Walsh, what on earth does this say about Jodi`s mentality that she is coming up with some pretty detailed artwork -- look at that, Grace Kelly -- while she`s on trial for murder.
WALSH: You know, if I can say one thing, Jane, I`m actually really surprised that she`s such a good artist. And again not placing any judgment on her, she may be going into her right brain, her creative brain as a way of self-consoling herself and reducing anxiety because she`s in a very anxiety-provoking position right now. She`s on a murder trial.
So I will bet you that art has been her go-to place to help her calm herself. And so she figures she has this artwork. She has a name out there. We know she has a little bit of narcissism. Why not sell it on the Internet and see if she can get some money?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t think, with all due respect, I understand what you`re saying. They are -- I was surprised at how good the drawings are, for lack of a better word.
But Jayne Weintraub, it offends our moral sensibilities that she`s cashing in on this.
WEINTRAUB: It does. You know what it shows me? It shows me what a waste of gift and talent it is. And on the other side, you think who is buying this stuff?
Then you look at all the groupies --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: There`s always sickos to buy, you know that.
WEINTRAUB: Of course -- you know that want to marry Scott Peterson. It`s the same kind of thing. But it`s not offensive that she`s trying to make money for her family. I look at that as a beautiful picture of Grace Kelly and wonder how did she get to sitting in a death penalty case? That`s what bothers me.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And while Jodi is drawing pretty pictures, the defense sharpening their pencils, getting ready to trash the victim. We hear that they are going to play sex phone conversations between Jodi and Travis.
I want to go to Rene Sandler, criminal defense attorney, isn`t that like taking a victim and using his own words to defend the person who killed him?
RENE SANDLER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: As I`ve said before, this relationship is on trial. What went on between these two people is directly relevant to this case and plays directly into the theme of the defense. It`s relevant, it should be provided to the jury. This is a search for the truth. Both sides need to be shown here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t know. I think that to use private, personal, intimate sex conversations -- first of all, why is it being taped? Did he know that he was being taped? And secondly, to use those personal sex conversations that he may have been goaded into saying things to help the person who killed him, I have a problem with it. I really do.
We`re going to debate it on the other side -- the Arias defense getting ready to trash Travis Alexander. Is Jodi trying to force Travis to testify for her from beyond the grave? We`re going to dive deep into that in a second.
And also tomorrow night right here at 7:00 p.m. Eastern on HLN, we have some special guests who are going to be joining us to discuss this really disturbing, I think, turn of events.
ARIAS: If I`m found guilty, I don`t have a life. I`m not guilty. I didn`t hurt Travis. If I hurt Travis, if I killed Travis, I would beg for the death penalty.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We are going to debate now with our panel. Let`s put up the four boxes with our panelists. And we`re going to do that on the other side actually. We`re just getting you ready for it. We`re going to debate what the defense plans to do and are they smearing somebody who can`t defend himself because he`s dead -- the victim of the defendant?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In his phone calls he talks of his fantasies, his fantasies with Jodi of tying her to a tree and putting it -- forgive me -- (EXPLETIVE DELETED) all the way. Jodi pretends to climax during this phone call. Travis tells her that she sounds like a 12-year-old girl who is having an orgasm for the first time. And then he tells her, it`s so hot.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s the voice of Jodi Arias` defense attorney, in her opening statements. She promised that she would play recordings, so now we`re really getting a sense that what we`re going to do is play sex conversations between Jodi and Travis to try to paint a picture of Travis as some sort of sexual deviant.
Well, who believes that that is really the right way to go? Who thinks that is dirty pool? Let`s start with Rene Sandler, criminal defense attorney. Do you think that`s ok?
SANDLER: I do. I absolutely do. This is about an individual who is on trial for her life. And if a judge makes a determination that it`s relevant, then it must come in. And let a jury decide what weight to give these statements at the appropriate time. But absolutely should come in.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Jayne Weintraub as a theme of the defense, to tape conversations -- I mean who amongst us would want our most private, personal conversations to be played before the world? Can you imagine how angry Travis Alexander`s family, how violated they must feel?
WEINTRAUB: Jane, she could die as a result of this verdict. This isn`t just had her life. This could be her death, number one. This isn`t about Travis` family. This is about Jodi Arias, whether she is guilty or not guilty, whether she had the right to self-defense. This is a death penalty case.
This isn`t a case for TV. This is a real criminal trial. The defense has every right to have its day in court. It`s not to show he`s a sexual deviant. It`s to show the relationship, and it`s to show her fear and what was going on and the power and control he had over her. That`s obviously what they`re going after.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: A conversation may have absolutely no bearing on someone`s behavior.
WEINTRAUB: But it might. The judge must have made that decision
WALSH: Jane?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- might have absolutely not -- go ahead, quickly.
WALSH: It`s Dr. Walsh here. Listen. Jane, sexual fantasies have nothing to do with real life. And this could easily mislead the jury. Because fantasies are just that, they are fantasies.
And that`s the number one human sexual fantasy is forced sex. So they may play that out, but that doesn`t mean that he would ever force himself on her in any physical way in real life.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree with you.
WEINTRAUB: To get 27 stab wounds --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Phone sex does not equal action in real life.
More on the other side.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: "In Session`s" Jean Casarez tracking the trial in Arizona. What do we know about these sex tapes?
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, what we`ve heard is that they include many different things. It will be the first time the jury hears the voice of Travis Alexander.
But as your panel said, and Jayne Weintraub said, this is a death case. This is a matter of life or death, and it`s all about the state of mind of Jodi. And the defense has a burden to show that this was a justified killing. If they don`t meet that burden in the defense case, self-defense may not even go to the jury.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but I like what Wendy Walsh said about you can`t take a fantasy that somebody is on the phone and saying I would like to do this to you and that to you and extrapolate they would actually do that in real life, Jean.
CASAREZ: But the point is what is in the mind of Jodi Arias, her subjective state of mind. That`s the issue.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but why were these phone calls even taped? Did Travis know he was being taped? Who tapes conversations like these? I hope that the prosecution manages to make those points and we are going to continue this important debate tomorrow on our show with a very special guest.
Meantime, picking up very interesting coverage, our own Nancy Grace.
" Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Moynihan
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Posts: 44735
Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
Reply #89 on:
January 23, 2013, 03:40:55 PM »
Jodi Arias Caught in Escape Attempt?
Aired January 22, 2013 - 20:00 ET
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Mesa, Arizona. They meet on a work trip in Vegas and fall hard, but when the flame burns out and they break up, she moves 300 miles to chase him, even converting to Mormonism.
But then 30-year-old Travis Alexander found slumped over dead in the shower of his five-bedroom home, shot, stabbed 29 times. And just hours after she stabs him to death, she`s literally humping on top of a new boyfriend while Travis`s body decomposing in a damp shower stall.
Twenty-seven-year-old Arias has wild sex with Travis all day, even photographing the sex. But then just minutes after the sex, slashes his throat ear to ear.
Bombshell tonight. Just revealed, Arias busted, set to run, go on the lam just before cops slap on the cuffs. We learn Arias`s grandparents` house under secret police surveillance, cops watching Arias pack and load boxes to flee. Packed, two knives and a secret .9-millimeter gun, hidden so well only found when her rental car was finally serviced.
And another Mormon man falls under Arias`s spell, vowing to leave his wife and children. Oh, and Arias`s so-called artwork brings in the big bucks on eBay. You know what? That`s not right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They didn`t trust each other.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My job is to speak for Travis right now. And everything Travis is telling me is that, Jodi did this to me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One day he showed up and was telling us that he had broken up with Jodi.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Travis didn`t want their relationship to be public. And the next day, he got in his car and noticed that all four tires were slashed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no way anybody else...
JODI ARIAS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: He never raped me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How is she going to get you? Does she have a weapon?
ARIAS: She had a knife.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said she had a gun before.
ARIAS: I don`t know if she had a gun.
OK, let`s say for a second that I did and I say I did it. I mean...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) jealous rage?
ARIAS: I wouldn`t -- I wouldn`t even say I was jealous. I mean, there may have been some jealousy there, but...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then what caused this?
ARIAS: I think it`s -- maybe Travis was jealous.
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Tonight we can reveal Arias busted, set to run, go on the lam just before cops slap on the handcuffs.
Out to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session. Jean, you`re the one that broke the story. What happened?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION" (via telephone): Nancy, we`re learning some absolutely amazing things from a police incident report that we have just gotten hold of. On July 14th, when Mesa police detectives went to Yreka to arrest Jodi Arias, they found her at her grandparents` house.
They visually surveilled her from outside, and they could see inside that she was packing boxes and packing suitcases. They believed she was going to flee. They stayed there watching her. In time (ph) of that night, of July 14th, a car pulled up. She came outside to talk to a female person in the driver`s seat. They believe that was her mother. It was a lengthy conversation. It ended with Jodi going back into her grandparents` house, her mother driving off.
The next day, they found a brand-new shiny rental car outside of the grandparents` house. They subsequently arrested Jodi, executed a search warrant, and found in that rental car boxes of books of Jodi Arias`s. Intermingled amongst the books were two knives. In her suitcase was a box of .9-millimeter bullets, no gun.
Less than a month later, her mother was inquiring where the gun was that Jodi had hidden in the rental car. They traced the rental car at that point to San Francisco, California, and they found hidden in that car a .9- millimeter gun.
GRACE: You know, Jean Casarez, this is blockbuster, bombshell evidence, and I am just wondering why the prosecution didn`t put it to the jury in their case in chief. To me, this is clear evidence of flight, and you don`t run unless you think somebody`s chasing you. Jean...
CASAREZ: That`s right. They did not...
GRACE: ... when a police car pulls up beside you on the interstate, do you hit the gas and take off at 90 miles an hour? No, you do not, Jean Casarez, because they`re not chasing you. But she was set to leave. In fact, she`s on secret police surveillance.
Unleash the lawyers, Ken Padowitz, Miami, Holly Hughes, Darryl Cohen, Atlanta. What about it, Ken Padowitz?
KEN PADOWITZ, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, Nancy, I think you`re absolutely correct. This is a very strong circumstantial case, and with all the evidence that they have, surely, the prosecution should put forth in front of that jury right off the bat the fact that she was attempting to leave the jurisdiction, the fact that she was attempting to flee. And I think they`ve made a major misstep, the prosecution, by not bringing this evidence up right in the beginning.
GRACE: Padowitz, I agree completely. As a matter of fact, Ken, when I was still prosecuting for 10 straight years, my theory was give the jury everything you`ve got up front. Don`t hide anything. Give it all to them because you never know if you`re going to get a chance on rebuttal.
And also, Holly Hughes, once they start reaching a decision in their own mind, it`s hard to change that decision with rebuttal evidence.
HOLLY HUGHES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It absolutely is. And again, it looks like they`re grasping at straws, like, Oh, no, the defense put up such great stuff, we`re scared. So now let`s go back and mention stuff we didn`t in the first place.
But let me point this out, Nancy. She wasn`t on the run because she wasn`t in custody. You`re using the word "escape," but until she is in custody, she is perfectly free...
GRACE: Holly...
HUGHES: ... to move about the country just like you and I.
GRACE: Holly...
HUGHES: Until she`s arrested, she has every right to pack up some books and drive herself anywhere she wants to go.
GRACE: Darryl Cohen, when somebody robs a bank and guns down three or four people and they take off and they cross state lines driving 90 miles an hour, wouldn`t you, in the vernacular sense, describe that as on the run?
DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, I feel like I`ve been set up, but of course, that`s on the run. But she waited 10 days. She wasn`t fleeing. She had her books. She didn`t have her clothing. She was waiting. She had a rental car. She was leaving. That`s not the same.
GRACE: I`m so glad she remembered to pack her knives and her .9- millimeter, along with her books. Good point!
COHEN: Spontaneous combustion.
GRACE: ... remember to change her hair color, get a rental car, turn the tag upside-down, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know what? You can say whatever you want, but Padowitz, you know the deal.
Jean, for those people just joining us -- everybody, Jean Casarez breaking the story tonight on our show that Jodi Arias busted trying to escape.
Jean, when they looked through what she had, they found two knives hidden amongst all those books. And you`re telling me the .9-millimeter weapon was not -- it was hidden so well that it was only discovered when the rental car, a Chevy Cobalt, was serviced about a month later?
CASAREZ: In San Francisco, California, that`s right. And the jury at this point has not heard this information. But Nancy, the defense is self- defense. So there`s going to be a rebuttal case from the prosecution.
GRACE: Absolutely.
CASAREZ: And if the jury learns this in a rebuttal case, that will be blockbuster.
GRACE: You know, that`s always a tough decision, whether you want to give it to the jury on a silver platter in your case in chief or hold back for rebuttal. Now, the problem -- everybody, Jean, Beth both with us tonight, both of them lawyers, as well as correspondents. They know the ins and outs of the courtroom.
You know, Jean, a lot of jurisdictions only let you put up rebuttal evidence that directly controverts something that was put up by the defense. So you`ve got to wait and see what the defense is going to do before the judge can rule whether this will ever come before the jury.
And it`s just not right that all of us know all of these details that the jury will never know. I`m just curious, Jean, when she bought that .9- millimeter. Why was she taking it with her? What was she planning to do on the run?
Another thing, Jean Casarez. Did cops, as they were secretly watching the grandparents` home -- did they see her having a conversation with her mother out in the car?
CASAREZ: Yes, they did, a woman they believed was her mother. Another thing from these police incident reports, they later executed a search warrant on her mother`s home, her parents` home. They found a box of .25- millimeter bullets in that home.
GRACE: Man, was that brought into the jury in the state`s case in chief?
CASAREZ: Not that I know of, no.
GRACE: I`m just very surprised and concerned all of this has not gone in front of the jury. But again, maybe the state`s holding it back for rebuttal.
Here`s another twist on that, Jean Casarez. Can the mother be called to testify as to what her daughter told her in that car? Would she tell the truth, or would she lie to save her daughter`s skin, Jean Casarez?
CASAREZ: Well, an interesting point is, it was the mother that was inquiring, and the reports do not say who she was inquiring to, but she was asking about the gun her daughter had hidden in the car. So Jodi`s mother knows information.
GRACE: For those of you just joining us, breaking tonight, we learn Jodi Arias busted trying to escape just before cops slap on the handcuffs, her grandparents` home under secret surveillance by police as they watch her pack and load boxes.
Jean Casarez, give it to me one more time with the timeline.
CASAREZ: This is July 14th, the day before she`s arrested. Mesa police arrived in Yreka, California. They are able to locate Jodi inside her grandparents` home. Visually, they can stand outside, surveil her and see that she is packing boxes.
They were concerned she was going to flee, so they stayed outside the home. The next day, a rental car was loaded with boxes and at least one suitcase of Jodi Arias. They arrest Jodi. They immediately execute search warrants at the grandparents` home, the parents` home, and that car.
Inside the car, in her boxes were many books, and amongst the books, two knives. In her suitcase, a .9-millimeter box of bullets.
And one more thing, Nancy. When they executed the search warrant in her bedroom of her grandparents` house, they found evidence that she had purchased a .9-millimeter gun.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Sandy in Idaho. Hi, Sandy. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. I was just calling -- I just don`t understand the justice system anymore. There is so much evidence that shows us obviously she`s guilty. There`s no other suspect. There`s all this surveillance. They have all this evidence they`ve found.
I don`t understand what the holdup is. She needs to be prosecuted because people like this, like in the O.J. Simpson case, so much evidence, and he got away with it. I mean, is this going to happen again? I don`t understand. I mean...
GRACE: Well, I`m very concerned, Sandy in Idaho. I`m very concerned. I don`t know if you heard the questions from the jury last week.
Out to you, Bonnie Druker. The questions from the jury very disturbing. In that jurisdiction, the jury is allowed to ask questions, as when I practiced law, they could ask questions. And the questions they were asking seemed to suggest that they believe his roommates could have been part of the murder, not Jodi Arias -- asking about their alibis, were they questioned? A lot of questions about the roommates.
Rita Cosby, is this going to play out just like tot mom and O.J. Simpson?
RITA COSBY, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: You know what? Sadly, it could. And as you point out, the questions from the jury are, Where were the roommates? Didn`t they hear anything? Didn`t they see anything?
And what`s so bizarre, Nancy, in this case, as we know, she had said from the opening statements from her defense -- and we`re going to hear a lot more in a week -- her defense attorney said she did it, but it was self- defense. But for some reason, the jury is having a hard time believing this small woman, this pretty woman, could have done this horrendous crime. It`s shocking, Nancy!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that was around April that you last saw him, right?
ARIAS: Early April.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You haven`t been back in town since then?
ARIAS: No, I haven`t at all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you have physically been here since you left.
ARIAS: Since I moved, no, I haven`t.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jodi now admits that was a lie.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On that horrible day, Jodi believed that Travis was going to kill her. He threatened to kill her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was it because of self-defense? There`s no way in hell it was. And not one person that knows Travis has come out and said, yes, he was that person.
GRACE: She is claiming that he was verbally abusive. The first time we hear of any physical abuse claim by her is the incident where she slashes him, a smiley faced slash from ear to ear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were you here in town or were you...
ARIAS: I was in Yreka, California.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About 12 hours after Travis was murdered, she was up here in Utah and out to eat with us.
GRACE: Welcome back. Bombshell. We can now reveal what we had suspected. We have evidence that Jodi Arias busted trying to escape just before cops slap on the handcuffs. She is under secret police surveillance as she loads and packs box after box to flee the jurisdiction, to go on the lam. The jury not privy to this information. What did she pack? Bullets, knives, books and a secret .9-millimeter weapon.
We are taking your calls. Out to Dana in Mississippi. Hi, Dana. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Hi, Nancy. I love your show. I watch you every night.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, ma`am. In one of the interrogation videos, it shows Jodi stating that if she would have killed Travis, she would have done it humanely. And I was curious what she knew at that moment when she was being interrogated. Did she know how he had been murdered?
GRACE: I know, I believe, Dana in Mississippi, that she had seen some of the death photos, where he was slashed from ear to ear. And once you see that, you don`t forget it. It`s like -- you know when you see a dead body if there`s been a gunshot or a stabbing. You don`t need a medical examiner to spell it out to you.
Let`s go to the source, Beth Karas, at the time she says -- I`m going to pull this up -- Liz, please find the spot in the interrogation tapes where she`s caught on tape saying, If I had done it, I wouldn`t have stabbed him this way. I would have shot him. Well, hello? She was shot. That`s the part you have to look for, Liz.
Beth, at the time she said that, didn`t she know or did she know? Had she -- of course, she knew because she did it. But had she been told that he was stabbed?
BETH KARAS, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Right. She was still denying it at that point. Yes, she knew he had been stabbed and she knew there was a lot of blood because word was spreading among their circle of friends, starting with the roommate who found him. And then some of Travis`s friends were outside, so word was spreading about what the scene was like. So she knew there was a lot of blood and he had been stabbed.
And when she said, If I had it in me to kill him, I would have done it humanely and quickly, it`s almost as though she`s conceding it wasn`t humane and that it was cruel. And cruelty is the aggravator the state is seeking to prove that would get her death, if the jury agrees.
GRACE: Well put, Beth Karas. Let`s take a listen to Arias saying exactly that, caught on tape.
ARIAS: If I had planned to hurt him in any way, I -- you know, I`m not the brightest person, but I don`t think I could stab him. I think I would have to shoot him continuously until he was dead, if that were my intention.
And again, I bring up the gloves again, that I would have to wear gloves because -- I mean, I`m not too worried about prints. I guess they`re all over anyway. But I would never stab him. If -- if -- if I had it in me anywhere to kill him, the least I could have done was to make it as humane as possible, or quick or something, you know? Not that killing is humane, so to speak. I don`t mean it that way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know what you mean.
ARIAS: He was still alive.
ARIAS: He was very well liked and loved.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In fact, Travis was one of the nicest and kindest men I`ve ever met.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Travis left Jodi no other option (INAUDIBLE) Travis`s continual abuse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just days after killing him, Arias allegedly posts the following message on his obituary page, with sentiments in stark contrast to those claims.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I am so grateful for the endless hours of conversation and the amazing experiences we`ve shared."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She never said bad things about him, really, I mean, besides that when she said the trust issue. Besides that, everything was - - he was a great guy, he inspired her, he was great.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re using the whole violence thing because that`s - - what else can she say? She`s already changed her story two or three times.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I love you, my friend, and always will."
GRACE: Now, remember, all of these postings she made after she stabbed him to death in the shower.
We are taking your calls. Out to you, Matt Zarrell. Why is phone sex taking center stage in the courtroom?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Well, the defense plans to present a recorded phone call between Travis Alexander and Jodi Arias just a couple weeks before the murder. In it, they claim that Travis Alexander, who portrays himself to be a good Mormon person, has very verbally, sexually explicit phone sex with Jodi Arias, including suggesting that he is going to tie Arias to a tree and perform anal sex on her.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Ken Padowitz, Miami, Holly Hughes, Atlanta. Also joining me, veteran defense attorney Darryl Cohen from Atlanta.
All right. Where are the lawyers? Darryl Cohen, let me just start with you, friend. They`re claiming self-defense, but here she is 300 miles away from Travis Alexander, and she`s calling him for phone sex. Nobody`s forcing her to do anything.
And I don`t know if you`ve seen the photos, the digi-cam photos of the sex marathon they had before the stabbing death. Nobody`s forcing her to do anything. There`s no evidence of physical abuse. So how are they going to get to the battered women`s syndrome at the defense?
COHEN: I think it`s very easy, Nancy. We`ve got a battered women`s syndrome. Emotional battering is what obviously took place. She drove 1,000 miles to see her ex-boyfriend. They had sex, which means she thought they were having a current affair. And then he drops the bomb, I`m going to Cancun with another girl. What do you think she would do? She snapped.
GRACE: That`s not battering! That`s jealousy! That`s plain old jealousy!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When we woke up, we were kissing. And she eventually kind of grabbed me and she got on top of me.
ARIAS: (INAUDIBLE) confidential for now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was one of the things that kind of made me stop, you know, when things were kind of getting a little heated, her expressing her religious beliefs and almost trying to bring me closer to God.
ARIAS: I`ve done many things that are shameful. But this is not one of them.
GRACE: Welcome back. A bombshell. Not only did we learn Jodi Arias planning to escape, set to flee just before she is brought in on murder, cops have her grandparents` home under secret surveillance as she loads and packs boxes, but we also learn yet another Mormon man smitten by Jodi Arias, set to leave his wife and children to be with Arias.
What did we learn, Matt Zarrell? Another Mormon man said to be her victim?
ZARRELL: Well, we spoke to a friend of both Travis Alexander and Jodi Arias who says there was this one guy after spending several hours with Arias at a convention said that when he gets home he`s going to divorce his wife to be with Arias.
The guy was also a father of children. He was a devout Mormon. Said when he got home he was going to talk to his bishop. He also allegedly said, quote, "Jodi is what I need. She is gorgeous. She laughed at my jokes. She gets me. We connect." And the man was completely serious.
GRACE: OK. I don`t know what mesmerizing effect Arias has on men.
Joining me right now, two special guests, Jamie Simko, friend of Travis Alexander, the murder victim in this case, and Jodi Arias on trial for his murder. Also with me, Christopher Bigelow, co-author of "Mormonism for Dummies."
We`re going to get to the bottom of all of this.
First out to you, Jamie Simko, thank you for being with us.
JAMIE SIMKO, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER AND JODI ARIAS: Thanks for having me.
GRACE: How did you meet Jodi Arias, and what was your first impression of her?
SIMKO: Well, I was also at that convention with Travis, and, yes, I just met him -- Travis and Jodi were hanging out in the food court at the MGM Grand and, yes, I just -- the first thing I saw her, I was just like, man, this girl is gorgeous. And, oh, looks like Travis is going for it, so, you know, good for him.
GRACE: Could you tell me about the time that Travis, Jodi Arias, and others were hanging out in a Jacuzzi? What happened?
SIMKO: Yes. We were hanging out after a business event, just kind of casually kicking back and --
GRACE: You know, I`m very jealous, Jamie Simko, because when I go out of town for work, I never get to boil in a Jacuzzi. It kind of sounds a little fun, you know, minus all the deadly STD germs floating around in it, but it does sound kind of fun. But back to you in the Jacuzzi. Let me just get that mental picture back in my head. Go ahead. Tell me about Arias in the Jacuzzi. I want to hear this.
SIMKO: Yes, so me, and a friend named Chris Hughes and Travis, and a few other people were hanging out in the Jacuzzi. And this was in Marietta, California, and Jodi had come driving in from the desert area that she`d been living in at the time. And it had only been a few months that I think her and Travis were talking or dating at this point.
Anyway, she comes rolling in and she pretty much just out of nowhere jumps in the Jacuzzi, she`s got her bathing suit ready and immediately sitting on Travis` lap and they`re just kind of hanging out, you know, being cute. And, yes, there was this kind of conversation that we all had and it was in reference to some other woman that Travis was talking to.
And Travis and Chris were talking about her, and then Travis kind of looks over towards Jodi and he`s like, yes, but, you know what, she ain`t no Jodi. You know, so many words that he said. And, you know, he was, you know, letting Jodi know that she was extremely gorgeous, but, you know, from a relation ship standpoint, this was very early so it was before he knew that Jodi wasn`t the one for him but that was the type of seed that he had planted in her mind that maybe she was the one.
GRACE: Well, maybe that time he thought she was the one. Maybe that was before she slashed his tires twice, hacked into his e-mail account and his bank account. Just thinking out loud.
Tell me about the Facebook chat you had with Alexander just -- not long before he was murdered.
SIMKO: Yes, I think it was just a few weeks, maybe a month before he was murdered and he had sent me a link through Facebook chat, and he said, hey, you know, check out my new blog post. I`m getting this -- my new blog going. And I read it and it was just an awesome story that he talked about his childhood. And anybody can read those now.
Anyway, and then through the conversations I was like, hey, how is it going with you and Jodi? Because under my impression I thought they were still together. And the words he said to me was, oh, it`s good, but it`s just a struggle. And my interpretation of that was, coming from him, I knew he was a devout Mormon.
And when he said it`s just a struggle, I mean, putting the two and two together, I knew they`d been spending personal time together a lot, traveling all over the place, and immediately went in my mind he is having sex with her and he feels guilty about it. And I feel you, bro. But I didn`t say anything. I just said, you know, I understand.
GRACE: Wow. That`s interesting that he said that not long before his death.
Question. What can you tell me about another Mormon gentleman that meets Arias and falls hopelessly for her and immediately decides he`s going to leave his wife and children to be with Jodi Arias? What happened?
SIMKO: Well, before I say this story, I`m going to state something. I`m going to set something apart here.
SIMKO: A lot of the men you`ve been interviewing on your show are also Mormons, and a lot of them are married. And, you know, a lot of them, they`re saying it but they`re not really saying it how they`d like to say it or how it really should be said. They`re saying, you know, she`s -- she was attractive or she was a cute girl.
Let`s get something straight. When I first laid eyes on her, I said, wow, this girl is smoking hot. And then, once I got to know her a little bit, I`m like, not only is she smoking hot, she`s one of the nicest people I ever met in my entire life. OK?
GRACE: I take it you are not Mormon?
SIMKO: I`m not Mormon.
GRACE: All right. That`s -- I`m just putting the pieces together. OK. Now that we have established Jodi Arias is, quote, "smoking hot," I disagree because when I see her, I see blood running down her wrists, OK? That kind of detracts from any physical attractiveness one may perceive, the whole blood, the whole murder thing.
Now, thank you for establishing on the record, Mr. Simko, that she`s smoking hot. Can we get to --
SIMKO: When I first met her, that was my first impression. I`m with you eye to eye hindsight.
GRACE: And, you know, a lot of people, and I know you didn`t -- you don`t feel this way, but a lot of people have said when they first met her they got a creepy vibe, but you know, she was all about Wicca and witchcraft on her Web site, but that`s all a whole another can of worms. I`m going to steer us back on to the road about this man I thought happily married that meets Jodi Arias and he walks away and says, I`m leaving my wife for her, after being with her for, like, two hours. What happened?
SIMKO: Yes, he had spent some personal time with her. And --
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, what`s personal time? What`s that? Is it --
SIMKO: You know I don`t --
GRACE: Personal time in the Holiday Inn or is it personal time having a latte in the food court? What do you mean by personal time?
SIMKO: It was -- I don`t want to say too much about the story for this man`s sake because I believe he`s still married, but it was in a car for a few hours, so --
GRACE: What is a married man doing in a car with a single woman for a couple of hours? Unless they`re out doing a surveillance with police.
GRACE: All right. Right there I have a problem. But so after two hours with her, what does this guy say?
SIMKO: Well, he texts, you know, other friend in the business, Chris Hughes aside, and right out, you know, goes into a private room with him and he says, Chris, when I get home from this trip, I`m going to divorce my wife. I want to be with Jodi.
GRACE: Welcome back. We are taking your calls. And now a look inside, behind the facade Jodi Arias has painted, not only do we learn that she was busted trying to escape, trying to pack and leave just before cops arrest her on murder one, her grandparents` home under secret surveillance by police, and catch her loading boxes full of books, knives, even later a gun, a newly purchased .9 millimeter.
I want to go to Dr. William Morrone, medical examiner, joining me out of Madison Heights.
What do the injuries say to you, Doctor Morrone?
DR. WILLIAM R. MORRONE, MEDICAL EXAMINER; FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST, TOXICOLOGIST (via telephone): I can`t see anything other than this is a very dark alpha dominant, evil woman. This is not smoking hot.
Four major points, tremendous amount of medium velocity blood splatter at the scene. Number two, chest wounds making all this splatter in the beginning, the first wound. Number three, the neck wound, ear to ear, cutting the windpipe, can only be done after he`s weakened or unconscious because he could fight back, and the absolute frosting on the cake, a gunshot wound to the head. It did not bleed and the shell casing found on top of concealed blood, that confirms the order of the fatal event.
GRACE: But now we learn yet another Mormon gentleman after being with Arias alone for just two hours decides to leave his wife. And, I might add, children.
Let me go back to a friend of Travis Alexander and Jodi Arias. Also joining us co-author of "Mormonism for Dummies," Christopher Bigelow. Also taking your calls.
Jamie Simko, you`ve just established that you believe Jodi Arias is, quote, "smoking hot," but what I`m more --
SIMKO: Was.
GRACE: More interested in is the relationship as it evolved with Travis Alexander and also this guy. Why did yet another man marry and, you know - - Jamie Simko, are you married, may I ask?
SIMKO: No, I`m happily single.
GRACE: Yes, well, I was, too, at one time for many, many years until I became a happily married mother of two and, let me tell you, since you didn`t ask, once you have children, it`s a game changer, dear. Everything changes. In fact, I don`t want to even think about another man. I don`t even want to think about it. I don`t want to think about anything at all that would jeopardize my twins` lives.
I don`t care what it is. It could be anything, it could be a beer before I drive. It could be -- I don`t know what it could be. No. If it would jeopardize their life or their happiness in any way, then I`m not interested.
And what I`m extremely interested in is whatever, let me just say, magic that she seems to work over men that within just knowing her for two hours, sitting in a car, for Pete`s sake, unless they were sitting in the backseat, he wants to leave his wife and children.
You know, after, you know, you`re married, you have arguments, you disagree, blah, blah, blah, none of it amounts to a hill of beans. But I can see you getting fed up with your spouse just over daily living. Don`t even have to really do anything wrong but ready to leave and walk out on your children to be with Arias? What was he thinking?
SIMKO: You know, and that`s the thing. I can speak from experience of being in her presence. When I was around her and, I mean, I was smitten. I mean I liked her personally. I was like, OK, she`s really hot, she`s nice, and we just really connected conversationally. And one of the things that this gentleman said was --
GRACE: In other words she asked you a lot of questions about you.
SIMKO: About -- sort of, I guess. I don`t know. We just -- we just hit it off, I don`t know. But what I wanted to say about this guy was that, you know, one of the things you referenced is that, you know, she laughs at my jokes, she gets me, this is what I`m missing. And what our friend Chris had said to him when he took him aside was, like, listen, dude, this is a marriage, you know. Tell me if you get with Jodi a few years down the road that you`re not going to be feeling the same exact way as you feel with your wife right now?
GRACE: Yes, you know, I think it`s like cars, you just trade them in and after three years you`re ready for a new one. I mean, you feel that way some days, but then why would you risk everything, everything?
You know, Caryn Stark, please tell me there`s more to men than that. This is of course not about murder. But all you have to do is laugh at their jokes and look good? That`s it?
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, it depends on the man, Nancy, but it`s very, very powerful aphrodisiac when somebody comes across. Don`t forget. This is somebody who`s a sociopath, right? She can do anything as a chameleon to manipulate the situation. She`s capable of even saying, you know, if I did it, kind of like if O.J. had written that book. Clearly psychopathic.
GRACE: Yes. But there`s something about her that is mesmerizing to men. And the reason I`m interested is because I wonder how it`s going to affect this jury, 11 men, seven women.
Beth Karas joining us on the case from the get-go.
Beth, another fact that`s happening is that Mormonism is coming into the trial. It`s beginning to be a star of the trial itself. The fact that he was with Jodi but he was looking for the perfect Mormon wife. How is Mormonism, which is a mystery to a lot of us -- that`s why I`m about to go to Christopher Bigelow, but Beth, why is Mormonism becoming such a key factor in the trial?
KARAS: Well, the defense started grilling the very first witness called by the state, Mimi Hall, Marie Hall. She was the one who was supposed to go to Cancun with Travis Alexander. They were scheduled to leave the day after the body was found, June 10th, 2008.
They were questioning her about it because I believe they`re going to try to show that Travis Alexander was conflicted, and that maybe he was into -- yes, he was self-hating and that he couldn`t resist the temptation of being with Jodi and he took it out on her by being abusive to her. So it`s important to understand the tenets of Mormonism and how you`re not supposed to engage in premarital sex and he really was on the road to redemption at the time he was killed, I`m told.
GRACE: With me, Christopher Bigelow, co-author of "Mormonism for Dummies."
Mr. Bigelow, thank you so much for being with us. Now why would Travis Alexander have been so torn up that he was having sex with Arias while dating other women? All of them, I might add, were in the Mormon Church with him.
CHRISTOPHER BIGELOW, CO-AUTHOR, "MORMONISM FOR DUMMIES": Yes, that`s a real mess. And I`m sure he was under tremendous pressure living a probably double or triple life with it. And if he wanted to get himself right with Mormonism, he would have had to confess and begin the repentance process. Premarital sexual activity would need to be confessed to his local bishop if he wanted to get himself right with Mormonism again.
GRACE: Welcome back. The trail hot and heavy on Jodi Arias for the stabbing and slashing death of her lover, Travis Alexander. Mormonism playing a major role in the trial, and with me an expert on it, co-author of "Mormonism for Dummies," Christopher Bigelow.
Christopher Bigelow, there has been some talk that Travis Alexander convinced Jodi Arias that oral and anal sex is not a sin in Mormonism, but vaginal sex before marriage is a sin. Is that true?
BIGELOW: That sounds like a real rationalization to me. I think most Mormons would count all of those as serious enough sins you need to clear it with a bishop.
GRACE: She was baptized in the Mormon faith, so wouldn`t she know the truth of the Mormon beliefs?
BIGELOW: You would think she would. Some people internalize it better than others. You have to wonder what her thoughts were about all of this irrational behavior.
GRACE: Where do Mormons believe are going to -- is going to happen to them in the after life? Where do they think they go?
BIGELOW: Mormonism has a really interesting concept of heaven. We believe it`s actually split into at least three different levels, so everyone doesn`t just go to heaven or hell, but it`s almost more of a graded system. The highest kingdom, we call it, of heaven is for those who are baptized Mormon and live the gospel and live a good life.
Then the middle kingdom is for those that are a little iffy, and then the lowest kingdom is for those who sin and don`t repent of that. And that`s the whole point of the Mormon Church, is helping people identify their sins and repent their sins.
GRACE: Right. So they don`t believe that heaven equals having your own planet?
BIGELOW: Well, you`re getting into some pretty deep doctrine there, and there are those who teach that our goal in life is to become more like Heavenly Father. As his children, we want to become like our parent. And if God --
GRACE: Do you have your own planet, I guess is my question?
BIGELOW: Well, you know, I`m going to go ahead and say that that`s within the possibility, realm of possibility. It`s not -- not something we love to hear stated because it sounds wacky.
GRACE: Yes, a little.
BIGELOW: But you know, to become --
If you become like God --
GRACE: You get your own planet.
BIGELOW: He gives you more and more responsibility, and maybe that includes a planet.
GRACE: We remember American hero, Army Specialist Wade Slack, 21, Waterville, Maine. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, National Defense Service medal. Parents Alan and Mary. Stepmother Rose, four brothers, four sisters.
Wade Slack, American hero.
Out to Bonnie Drucker on our team.
Bonnie, what can you tell me about artwork of Jodi Arias` popping up on eBay?
BONNIE DRUKER, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Oh, Nancy, this one takes the cake. Her artwork that is on cardboard in colored pencils is popping up on eBay. People are actually buying some of it. She has a couple of different collections, Nancy. One of them is a `50s collection with Lucille Ball and Grace Kelly and Frank Sinatra. And, you know, that`s what she`s selling. We understand that the money is so she could use -- so she could use the money to get better food in jail and to help --
GRACE: Hold on, just a moment. Hold on.
Andy Kahan, victim advocate, city of Houston, coined the term murderabilia.
Andy, people are going to pay a thousand bucks for her sketches on cardboard so she can get better food behind bars?
ANDY KAHAN, DIR. OF HOUSTON MAYOR`S CRIME VICTIMS` OFFICE, MONITORING MURDERABILIA SALES (via telephone): Well, I don`t know what she`s going to do, what are you going to buy, better junk food? It`s not like outside vendors are going to be parked outside waiting for her to pick up healthier foods. But I`d tell you the looming legal issue right now, the reality is that she hasn`t been convicted of anything, so anybody can sell her artwork, her paintings, her drawings or whatever they want to do.
But people who collect macabre artwork from high-profile killers are looking at her artwork right now as an investment. They`re banking on her being convicted and the theory being that she won`t be allowed to produce any so-called artwork. Arias basically, when you look at it, the old adage pops up. When you go to jail, you turn into Rembrandt and you get -- get reborn, and that`s what Jodi Arias is doing right now.
GRACE: Everyone, "DR. DREW" up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
" Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Moynihan
Former Moderator
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Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
Reply #90 on:
January 23, 2013, 03:43:53 PM »
Quote from: klaasend on January 22, 2013, 08:19:31 PM
" Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Moynihan
Former Moderator
Monkey Mega Star
Posts: 44735
Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
Reply #91 on:
January 24, 2013, 09:26:29 AM »
Did the Nanny Do It?
Aired January 23, 2013 - 19:00 ET
Plus Jodi Arias was such a good liar she even lied to herself in her own diary, asking what on earth happened to Travis, when we now know she`s the one who killed Travis. And will secretly-taped phone-sex conversations between Jodi and Travis be her ticket to freedom? We`re taking your calls.
JODI ARIAS, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: I was not at Travis`s house.
If I`m found guilty, I don`t have a life.
If I hurt Travis, if I killed Travis, I would beg for the death penalty.
If Travis were here today he would tell you it wasn`t me.
My cat scratches me. She`s a feral cat.
If I was going to try to kill somebody, I would use gloves. I have plenty of them.
It`s hurting my reputation.
I`m all for the 10 commandments. Thou shalt not kill.
I`m still friends with my ex-boyfriends, they are all still alive.
I guess there`s something that`s wrong with me psychologically. I think of the butterfly effect.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight gearing up for round two of surprises in the Jodi Arias murder trial. Will Jodi be convicted of viciously murdering her ex-boyfriend? Or will the defense use the victim`s own words to defend the woman who admits I killed him.
This beautiful 32-year-old photographer confessed that she stabbed her ex-boyfriend 29 times, slit Travis Alexander`s throat from ear to ear and shot him in the face for good measure. But Jodi`s defense claimed she had absolutely no choice but to kill Travis in self-defense leaving behind his mutilated body.
You can see the autopsy photos. The defense claims Travis psychological abused and sexually degraded Jodi keeping her as his dirty little secret. Listen to this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Behind the smiles in these photographs, there was a whole other reality for Jodi -- a reality that Travis created. Because in reality, Jodi was Travis`s dirty little secret.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And of course, this blame the victim strategy has really, really just horrified Travis Alexander`s family. And they plan to blame the victim and even use recorded phone sex calls between Travis and Jodi to try to prove their point. Listen to this.
This is the defense.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In this phone call, he talks about his fantasies. His fantasies with Jodi of tying her to a tree and putting it, forgive me, in her (EXPLETIVE DELETED) all the way. Jodi pretends to climax during this phone call. Travis tells her that she sounds like a 12- year-old girl who was having an orgasm for the first time. Then he tells her "It`s so hot."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You saw Travis`s furious family. Will they be able, the defense, to twist the triple x-rated photos that the prosecution showed to the jury and sort of manipulate that to try to prove that Travis abused Jodi? Photos like this of Jodi laying on Travis`s bed, seductively in pig tails. Will they try to turn that into some sexual role-playing game?
I want to hear from you. Call me 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
So to debate whether or not this is ok or it`s morally reprehensible, let`s bring in the attorneys: Alison Triessl and Brian Silber. Brian we begin with you. Is it dirty pool to use the dead man, the victim`s own words in phone sex conversations to try to prove the point that would benefit the person who has now admitted killing him?
BRIAN SILBER, TRIAL ATTORNEY: Well, as a trial attorney, my opinion really is it comes down to the evidence. And if you`re using this information merely just to disparage this person, that`s an awful, disgusting, and unethical thing that no lawyer should ever do, prosecutor or defense lawyer.
However, my suspicion is that we`re going to learn about the Travis that Jodi knew -- not what the rest of us knew, not the Travis that went to church -- the Travis that had sex with her that degraded her and made her do things that drove her to the edge. That`s what this jury is going to hear. For that reason, it may be appropriate.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, having a double life may be going to church or being conflicted, that doesn`t mean that you`re a sexual abuser. That`s quite a leap, Alison Triessl, criminal defense attorney.
ALISON TRIESSL, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. I mean I think the perverse thing that`s going on here is that for all the women that really have been victims of abuse from their boyfriend or their husband or their partner and she`s using it and there`s no claim and the defense, I do not believe is going to put up people who said yes, we saw him abuse her. There were no police reports filed where she was the victim of abuse.
So if they`re in fact using the fact that she was a victim of abuse when she was not, there may have been some weird, strange, fetish sex going on, but she in fact is really a killer and is using this as an excuse. It really minimizes all those women that really have suffered in abusive relationships and that`s what I`m worried about here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, absolutely. From the clues from the opening statements, it looks like the defense does plan to put Travis, the victim, the dead person who can`t speak for himself, on trial. Listen to this, again, the defense attorney.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: While he continued this facade of being a good and virginal Mormon man, he was inwardly dealing with his own sexual issues. And in Jodi, in Jodi he found somebody who was easily manipulated and controlled, someone who would provide him with the secretive sexual relationship that he needed.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And to prove that so-called double life, the defense is reportedly going to play secretly-recorded phone sex conversations between Jodi and Travis.
But I want to go to Simone Bienne, psycho-sexual relationship therapist. A sexual fantasy over the phone, all right, is one thing. Acting that out in real life is something else entirely. Let me ask you as an expert. Isn`t it true that somebody can suggest a wild sex fantasy on the phone with absolutely no intention of whatsoever of ever acting it out in real life?
SIMONE BIENNE, PSYCHO-SEXUAL RELATIONSHIP THERAPIST: Absolutely, Jane. The clue is in exactly what you say, the word "fantasy". Fantasies are there so we step beyond our sexual safety zone and it doesn`t mean that you are going to act anything out.
And what really upsets me going off what Alison was saying, Jodi, it does not look like an abused woman, a woman who has been battered. She clearly was engaging with this -- these toxic, crazy, sexual games that they were playing -- she got off on it. She didn`t feel bad afterwards. She didn`t feel shame afterwards. She didn`t feel remorse afterwards. The attention was something that turned her on.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well put. She never called 911; she never seemed to complain to anybody about bruises. And if it`s a game, well there`s two adults participating in a game -- two consenting adults.
On the other side, we`re going to talk to a juror in the Michael Jackson death trial about what these jurors who are on an extended break might be looking at right now.
ARIAS: I guess it`s really all I need. Sorry. Don`t roll the tape yet.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you had nothing to do with Travis Alexander`s death?
ARIAS: Nothing to do with it.
ESTEBAN FLORES, DETECTIVE: Were you in Travis`s house on Wednesday?
ARIAS: Absolutely not. I was nowhere near Mesa. I was nowhere near Phoenix.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As Travis would explain to Jodi, oral sex really isn`t as much of a sin for him as vaginal sex. So he was able to convince her to give him oral sex. And later in their relationship, Travis would tell her that anal sex really isn`t much of a sin compared to vaginal sex so he was able to persuade her to allow him to have anal sex with her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The big development coming up next is the defense case is going to start. The prosecution rested and now this trial is on an almost a two-week break in between the two opposing sides. You might call this half-time. That means the jury is -- they`re not sequestered by the way.
They are supposed to stay away from anything to do with this case. They shouldn`t talk about it. They shouldn`t read about it, nada.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You do not need to return until January 29th. You must be very diligent to avoid any contact with any outside information about this case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What is it like trying to avoid publicity and avoid news and headlines and Facebook posts on a huge trial? Well, we`re delighted to have us Juror Number 5, Debbie Franklin, who served on the Michael Jackson death trial involving the defendant Dr. Conrad Murray. You remember that case, we covered it here in depth.
Debbie you join us on the phone. You were also not sequestered, just as the Jodi Arias jurors are not sequestered. How difficult was it to stay away from any information on that case since that was also all over the news?
DEBBIE FRANKLIN, JUROR IN MICHAEL JACKSON DEATH TRIAL (via telephone): I didn`t think it was that difficult. We knew we weren`t supposed to watch TV, read anything in the paper about it or listen to anything related to the trial. And we followed those directions. If we happened to be watching TV and something came on, you turned the channel.
And honestly, after sitting on the trial all day long, listening to it in detail all day long, the last thing you really want to do is go home and hear anything more about it. I don`t think it`s that difficult at all not to listen to it or read things about it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But Debbie, didn`t people in the neighborhood want to talk to you about it? I mean I was covering -- I was right there. You were going inside the building, I was outside every day interviewing all the Jackson fans and all the chaos and the people arguing, chanting. And everybody wanted -- I`d go to dinner with a friend. They wanted to hear all about the trial. Didn`t people sort of bug you to get -- oh here`s my opinion?
FRANKLIN: Well, people didn`t know that I was on the jury. We didn`t see people as we came in and out of the building to the trial. We didn`t see people. We were brought up a different way. Nobody in my neighborhood knew that I was on the trial. So nobody was calling me or talking about it or anything because nobody knew that I was actually on the trial.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. And are you following the Jodi Arias case?
FRANKLIN: I follow bits and pieces of it at night, just recaps here and there, but I haven`t been watching the trial.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have a real quick question. Do you agree with me, my opinion is that even though everybody is saying she`s guilty, the evidence is so overwhelming, it`s the most overwhelming case that the jurors see it totally differently?
FRANKLIN: Well, I think when you`re not hearing the outside opinions, you`re paying attention only to what the details of the case are and you make up your opinions based only on what`s presented in court. And sometimes that is different than what people are hearing when they are reading papers or listening to TV or commentators and things like that. You`re only getting the true facts of what`s presented in court.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Debbie Franklin, you sound like a super juror. I just hope the jurors in this case are as level-headed and as smart and as thoughtful as you are. Thank you for joining us.
Beth Karas, correspondent, "In Session"; you`re there in Arizona. What`s coming up in this case next?
BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, actually, before the defense case begins, Jane, there`s going to be a hearing Monday, it will be about 12:30 Eastern time. We just learned that the defense filed notice of witnesses they want to call at this hearing and that the hearing is because they are alleging prosecutorial misconduct. They have been alleging it throughout the case saying that the prosecution wasn`t telling them about text messages that they were able to recover from Travis Alexander`s telephone originally after he died. They couldn`t recover them and then technology became available a few years later and they could recover them. And it`s just sort of a question of what they knew, when they knew it and when they made it available.
I think that`s what the prosecutorial misconduct for Monday`s hearing is about.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And let me ask you this quickly, Beth. We have heard so much -- is Jodi going to testify? Isn`t she going to take the stand? But are there any potential bomb shell witnesses for the defense?
KARAS: Well, you know, they have a polygraph examiner. They have a computer forensic person, they have a psychologist. They have a battered women syndrome domestic violence expert.
And then they have friends. They have I think a guy she used to date. They have a woman Travis Alexander dated, Lisa Andrews; and a few others on your list as well as Jodi Arias. So, if we see some of these people who were in Travis Alexander`s life, that could be quite interesting.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It could. And on the other side of the break, we`re going to talk to Shanna Hogan who is writing "Picture Perfect", a book about this case. And get her insight into this blame-the-victim strategy.
Stay right there. We`re also taking your calls.
ARIAS: I would never stab him. If I had it in me anywhere to kill him, the least I could have done was make it as humane as possible. Quick or something, you know?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re the Jodi Arias Show; we`re covering it every day. And Monday right here on the show, don`t miss a very special guest, a former co-worker of Jodi Arias. She has plenty to say about her. That is Monday, 7:00 p.m. Eastern.
We have more on the other side of this break. We`re going to bring you every day the very latest on this case.
The diaries of Jodi Arias -- next.
ARIAS: If I`m found guilty, I don`t have a life. I`m not guilty. I didn`t hurt Travis. If I hurt Travis, if I killed Travis, I would beg for the death penalty.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Careful what you wish for because she has now admitted she did kill Travis but she claims self-defense.
Let`s go out to the phone lines, Mike, Massachusetts -- your question or thought, Mike.
MIKE, MASSACHUSETTS (via telephone): Jane, love the show.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.
MIKE: Question -- actually a comment first. I`m the one guy in America who thinks everybody is innocent including O.J., Michael Jackson, Casey Anthony. I could give you 100 reasons they`re innocent. This girl takes the cake for me. The reason I say that is you`re claiming self- defense. If you`re trying to defend yourself, you don`t stab somebody 29 times and then shoot them.
My question is, is it possible that the defense is coming up with this crazy theory just in an effort to get the death penalty off the table?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Shanna Hogan, journalist and author of "Picture Perfect" I think you heard the question. Is this all just an attempt to avoid her being sentenced to death?
SHANNA HOGAN, JOURNALIST: That`s a really good question and that`s the thing we`ve been speculating about in the media as well. Is they`re just trying to get her to not get the death penalty and a lot of that is putting that victim on the stand, giving her a reason in her mind, showing the jurors that she had a reason in her mind to kill him because she felt sexually abused or that, you know, she (inaudible) and tossed aside.
I mean that might work (inaudible). And I actually thought that as well so it`s up to speculation of whether or not that`s what their strategy is. It`s a very good point.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jodi`s lies were so deep she even lied in her own diary. Cops found her journal and she had written, quote, "Travis is dead. What happened? Travis, what is this?"
Simone Bienne, psychosexual and relationship therapist, this woman is just beyond bizarre. She kills him. She admits that. Then she calls and leaves a voice mail, basically, hey, how are you doing? I would love to hang out with you. She knows he is dead and she`s leaving a voice mail.
Is she capable, do you think, of taking the stand and coming up with another crazy lie, like something that just takes the prosecution by surprise that they wouldn`t even be prepared for cross-examination? I`m not saying Martians landed and handed her the gun but close.
BIENNE: I think, Jane, we`re going to be surprised next week. We`re going to be glued to your show next week for all the updates. This is a woman who clinically speaking is utterly bonkers. I mean she is so pathological, it is scary. And she`s trying to present herself as the victim, as poor old me.
And I think, in that case, she is being very manipulative. We all know that victims can hold an awful lot of power and this is what she is trying to claw back. And you can see it in her body language, how she holds herself in the fetal position. She is very manipulative.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to ask on the other side of the break -- we have three attorneys, so listen to this question, think about it. Very quickly we`re going to ask them, can she take the stand and just make up just about anything? What`s to stop her? What does she have to lose?
On the other side.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She slit his throat as a reward for being a good man. She knocked the blessings out of him by putting a bullet in his head.
FLORES: Have you ever shot that .25 auto? Have you ever touched it?
ARIAS: I never stole it. No, I`ve never seen it. My grandpa says it looks like a toy gun. I don`t know what a .25 looks like.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lies, lies, lies. Attorneys, she`s had four and a half years to rehearse in her jail cell more lies. Can she just state anything on the stand? Starting with Brian.
SILBER: I completely object to the premise of this question. Everyone here has her labeled, but nobody has given her the chance to say what she has to say or have this defense put on their defense.
She doesn`t look like a battered woman. Tell me, what does a battered woman look like to you? As a former domestic violence prosecutor, I can tell you there is no, quote, "look". They come in all walks of life, can be male, can be female.
What this will come down to is her version of events and, yes, under our constitution she has the right to tell her story.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Thank you. Alison?
TRIESSL: Well, first of all, Brian, I absolutely disagree with you. I`m a criminal defense attorney and I have to tell you this is a case where there`s overwhelming evidence against her. What does she have to lose? She has her life to lose.
This jury may say yes she lied to the police but it will be another thing if she gets up and she lies to them, and then they`ll give her the death penalty.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Beth Karas?
KARAS: It will be extremely risky for her if she gets on the stand and tells yet another story. Jodi Arias has had ample opportunity to tell police that she was abused and she had no choice. She reached out to them. She talked to them for hours. She never mentioned it, not until two years after she was incarcerated.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, thank you, panel. I know liars, they lie and they know how to do it well. We shall see.
Nancy Grace is up next.
" Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Moynihan
Former Moderator
Monkey Mega Star
Posts: 44735
Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
Reply #92 on:
January 25, 2013, 05:14:28 PM »
Surprise Arrest in Pediatrician`s Murder
Aired January 24, 2013 - 19:00 ET
And Jodi Arias like you`ve never seen her before. We`ll show you the inside of her jail cell, and her fellow inmates will tell us what they really think about her. Plus, is this proof of her ability to seduce? Will she mesmerize these jurors?
And we`re talking Jodi Arias. Some new information on the other side. Her jail cell mates speak out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s dead. He`s in his bedroom in the shower.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It appeared to be dried blood on his neck, appeared to be a neck wound from ear to ear. His face was dark purple, almost black.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Has he been threatened by anyone recently?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, he has. He has an ex-girlfriend that has been bothering him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jody Arias killed Travis Alexander. The million dollar question is what would have forced her to do it?
JODI ARIAS, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: I didn`t commit a murder. I didn`t hurt Travis. I would never hurt Travis. I would never harm him physically.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or was this self-defense?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What would have forced Jodi? It was Travis` continual abuse. And on June 4th of 2008, it had reached a point of no return.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, as the defense ramps up to try to save Jodi Arias from a death penalty conviction, we are getting an inside peek into Jodi`s secret life behind bars in jail and the preview of the seductive nature of this so-called cold-blooded killer. The beautiful 32-year-old photographer admits she stabbed her ex-boyfriend 29 times, slit Travis Alexander`s throat from ear to ear, practically decapitating him and also shot him in the face. But she claims it was all in self-defense.
Jodi has been in jail for four long years now waiting for her trial. Arizona`s KSAZ went inside Jodi`s actual cell, her cell and got a glimpse of what those years have been like. Look and listen to this.
TROY HAYDEN, FOX 10, PHOENIX: This is Jodi`s room here, her cell. You can see it is just a small cell. There is a little tiny window up at the top. Three bunks. Only two of them are occupied. This is Jodi`s right here in the middle and her roommate`s is down here. There is a small writing desk and some lotions and then over here you got a toilet and a basin. She`s locked down in here with her cell mate from 10:00 p.m. at night until 6:00 in the morning.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. That`s where she`s doing all those sketches she is selling on eBay. Look at the autopsy photos. Night after night in that cell, Jodi is left to think about how she killed Travis Alexander during her time behind bars, along with sketching and selling those through somebody anonymous on eBay, she`s made plenty of friends. Oh, boy is she popular. Just listen to what one of her fellow jail mates told KSAZ.
JENNA BOUNDS, FRIEND OF JODI ARIAS: She comes in here with a smile on her face. But anybody who knows her like I would knows she`s hurting inside. But she can`t show it to us because if she comes in here hurting, we`re going to be like what`s wrong? Then she`ll have to talk about it.
I`ll tell you what, if I was on trial for two weeks, I wouldn`t want to talk about it. I`d put on a fake smile and make everybody think that I`m absolutely fine. But she`s not. She`s hurting inside. There is nothing she can do about that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, my gosh. All her jail mates are holding signs that say "Free Jodi". Did Jodi use her magnetic personality to seduce her jail mates? I want to hear from you. What does this say about her ability to mesmerize people? Call me, 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
All right, let`s debate it if Jodi is just charming and seducing her tough female jail mates, that was a piece of cake apparently. Will that also -- that charm work on this predominantly male jury? Ok.
Let`s start with Anahita Sedaghatfar, criminal defense attorney out of Los Angeles.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. Clearly, Jane, I would not be surprised if this was orchestrated by the defense team to finally put a perception of Jodi Arias the way they want her to be perceived. They want her to be humanized. They want to show she has friends. She`s likeable. She`s sympathetic.
Because so far all we`ve seen are these bloody, gruesome photos. We`ve seen salacious naked pictures of her and she`s been portrayed as nothing less than a cold-blooded murderer. So I think this is in line with the defense`s strategy to try to humanize her and put out a different perception of Jodi Arias in hopes of garnering sympathy for her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stacey Honowitz, I have so many problems with that. First of all, the jury is not supposed to be watching television. I want everybody to watch, obviously, except the jurors in the Jodi Arias case if you`re a juror, turn off your TV right now.
Ok, so the idea that the defense would orchestrate fellow jail mates holding up signs that say "Free Jodi"? It blows my mind, Stacey.
STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Right. Jane, I don`t know how you make a comment like that. That the defense orchestrated an investigative reporter going in to look at her jail cell is ridiculous. The fact of the matter is that --
SEDAGHATFAR: Clearly --
HONOWITZ: -- the jury is never going to see that she has friends. And winning over your jail mates is a little bit different than winning over a jury. They`re all in there for committing crimes. She could be the nicest person in the world and charming and a cold-blooded killer.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me give Anahita a chance to respond and then we`ll get to the rest of the team.
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, I clearly -- no defense attorney in their right mind would allow their client to speak with anybody much less the media without them having a part in that situation. And I agree with you that jurors are admonished by the judge to not watch TV, to not read newspapers. And I do believe jurors take that admonition seriously.
But jurors are human beings. And they don`t live in a bubble. And quite frankly, the truth of the matter is that they are exposed to what`s out there. And I think that the defense is doing --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Drew Findling?
DREW FINDLING, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, let me just say because I`m going to agree with Stacey -- shocking as it is -- but on a different reason. It is ridiculous. There is a zero chance that this is orchestrated by the defense.
It is a statement about this young lady though. Because I`ll tell you something -- and I know Stacey will agree with me on this -- prisoners are always looking to bash other prisoners so they can testify and get credit in their own cases. So what is so shocking about this, maybe you think she`s manipulative or maybe she is just a nice person to these other prisoners, is that they`re saying something good about this -- about her. You never hear this.
What you do you see is prisoners trying to cut deals -- this is unheard of. Either she`s manipulative or she has a great personality.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me say a couple of things. I`m joining the debate right now. Let me say a couple things. I`m not accusing this defense team of anything, I don`t know them but I could never say never. We know that in the O.J. Simpson case when there was a tour of his Rockingham estate the defense team completely redecorated it and put up a whole bunch of paintings that they thought would sway the jury in their direction.
So I never would say that no defense team would ever do anything after that case.
But I want to go to Beth Karas. To me, the point is her ability to charm people. There`s a report that one guy talked to her for an hour and a half and wanted to leave his family and follow her. She has some kind of magnetism. You`re there in the courtroom. Do you sense it at all?
BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, IN SESSION: Well, she hasn`t had the opportunity to really show that to the jury. She sits about as far away from the jury as she can on the far side of the defense table. While she stands and faces the jury and looks at them as they file into court every day, she hasn`t connected with them except through her interrogation video.
If she gets on the stand, you know, she`s a little seductress. I mean she may make an impression on them. But an hour, five hours on the stand is very different from inmates who are with her day and night.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And I think that what you said is true. But a seductress can seduce without speaking, too. And I was told by somebody that she stares at the jurors as they come in. And if she makes eye contact with one, it starts developing an eye contact relationship because Beth we`ve seen that in the past where defendants will try to kind of develop a kind of relationship that you would develop in church with a choir sitting over there and you`re in the pew and you`re kind looking at somebody in the choir. You don`t have to be talking to them very much.
KARAS: You know, she`s wearing glasses now. And that`s one could interpret as a little bit of a barrier between her eyes and the jury. She started wearing glasses from I think the third or fourth day of the trial. So I haven`t noticed her looking at the jury beyond what you describe, you know, when she stands and stares at them as their coming in.
But she is still far away from them. It`s a large courtroom. It`s not like she`s 15 feet away. I mean she`s probably 30 feet away from them.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, we`ll see. We`re going to talk to Selin Darkalstanian. She`s also in the courtroom. Let`s see. It`s like Rashomon, everybody has a different perception of the same events going on in court.
We`re just getting started looking inside Jodi Arias` jail cell. All of her jail mates are holding up signs saying "Free Jodi". What does that mean?
And at the top of the hour, will Jodi take the stand to save her life? Nancy Grace at 8:00 Eastern right here on HLN.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At 5:29 p.m., Arias takes a picture of Alexander alive in the shower. Moments later, she stabs him in the chest. Prosecutors believe he was still alive and Arias followed him down the hall to the bedroom where she slashed his throat.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jodi Arias the seductress? We`re analyzing that. We`ve studied her interrogation tapes with the lead detective. Was she trying to seduce him, too? We`ll show you some of those clips and you can decide for yourself. Remember, 90 percent of communication is nonverbal.
ESTEBAN FLORES, DETECTIVE: You keep saying that you knew that it wasn`t healthy and you knew it was contributing to something that wasn`t good. And yet you guys continued to do it.
ARIAS: Yes. Part of that -- part of my perspective now has to do with the fact that I`m going through a repentance process that I worked with my bishop.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jodi has been in jail for four long years now waiting for this trial to start. Arizona`s KSAZ went inside the jail and the women who have been living with Jodi behind bars, turns out they`re her biggest champions, even holding up signs that say "Free Jodi". Check this out.
BOUNDS: She comes in here with a smile on her face. But anybody who knows her like I would knows that she`s hurting inside. But she can`t show it to us because if she comes in here hurting, we`re going to be like what`s wrong and then she`s going to have to talk about it.
I`ll tell you what; if I was on trial for two weeks, I wouldn`t want to talk about it. I`d put on a fake smile and make everybody think that I`m absolutely fine. But she`s not. She`s hurting inside but there is nothing she can do about that.
ELEZ-MITCHELL: This is absolutely wild. Selin Darkalstanian, senior producer who was there and you`ve been in the courtroom. As Drew Findling mentioned, usually your fellow jail cell mates are almost your enemies because they`re trying to get something on you they can use to leverage their own case.
That is extraordinary. Anybody who knows how people awaiting trial or people behind bars operate, that`s extraordinary to have that level -- it`s almost like they`re running a campaign for her. What have you seen in terms of Jodi`s behavior in the courtroom and any interaction whatsoever with jurors?
SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN SENIOR PRODUCER: She stands up and she faces the jury as they walk in every morning and she stares at each and every one of them as they are coming in. It`s as if she`s trying to make eye contact with one of them as they`re walking in, you can presume.
But she is very alert. She`s looking at them. She`s aware of them. She`s tuned into them. Once the trial starts, the days that there have been embarrassing moments, photos shown of her or if there have been autopsy photos, she looks down as we`ve seen. She covers her face with her hair. She doesn`t want anyone to see her. She doesn`t even stare at the jury. She doesn`t even look their direction.
But the days where people are saying nice things about her on the stand like remember one of the last witnesses on the stand said she is a kind and gentle person and Jodi was very tuned into that testimony. She was glancing over at the jury and looking at the testimony. So it just depends on what`s going on in the courtroom. That`s what her reaction is. But she`s definitely aware of the jury. She`s very tuned into them.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we -- we also get a lot from these interrogation tapes. Now we have seen Jodi on these tapes use multiple seduction techniques. Just on the police interrogation tape itself, remember her sobbing and breaking down? Is there something manipulative to that?
FLORES: This is absolutely some of the best evidence I`ve ever had in a case. And I`ve convicted a few people on less than this.
ARIAS: Well, so I`m as good as done.
FLORES: That`s not for me to say. But eventually those photos will come out. Jodi?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mike Brooks, HLN law enforcement analyst, given her other behavior, I don`t buy those tears nor do I buy this stretch, this yoga stretch that she does behind bars when the guys go out to get coffee. But she knows they`re watching her. It looks very seductive to me. What do you make of it?
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: You know, Jane, right from the very beginning when we first heard the telephone conversations, when she was calling up to help out Detective Flores to help out in the case when she heard that Travis was dead, I heard some flirtatious -- I just thought she was flirtatious, a little coquettish.
And then we see her here with the jailbird stretch on July 15th. And then we see her the next day in her on July 16th in her orange jump suit after she was placed under arrest on the 15th when she changed her story. And she was just oh, you know, kind of so as matter of fact. But, no, I think, you know, she thinks that she can get to any man. I tell what you, Jane, there are seven men on the jury. All it takes is one.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, again, the subconscious, how the subconscious perceives all this is not necessarily -- it shouldn`t be ignored because the words are something. The physical evidence is something. That is all very, very important. But sometimes these subconscious messages are just as important. I think it`s a fair question. It`s a fair issue to look at.
Let`s go out to the phone lines. Christine, North Carolina, your question or thought -- Christine?
CHRISTINE, NORTH CAROLINA (via telephone): Hey, Jane. I want to say I love you and I love Rico.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.
CHRISTINE: And if your mom`s watching, I want to say hi to her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you so much. I appreciate that.
CHRISTINE: I`ve got a question and a comment and then I have a question about one of the pictures and I`d like you to give me your advice on it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sure.
CHRISTINE: My biggest concern right now is the jury because the questions they`re asking, it`s like they`re watching L.A. Law and CSI. They don`t realize this is a real human being that was butchered in a bathroom.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree with you. I agree with you.
The questions that the jury asked are -- have some people alarmed. We`re going to discuss that on the other side.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: More on the Jodi Arias case in just a second. Monday right here on this show, 7:00 p.m. Eastern Monday, do not miss a very special guest. A former co-worker of Jodi Arias and boy, does she have a lot to say about this woman accused of this horrific murder. That`s Monday, 7:00 p.m. Eastern. And we`ll have more right on the other side.
ARIAS: It`s not that I didn`t love Travis. And it`s not that I don`t still love him. But I really needed to move on, and the last --
FLORES: What prevented you from moving on? Nobody was preventing you from moving on.
ARIAS: Well, the only person preventing me really from moving on was myself.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We had a question from a juror about the impact of the questions. In Arizona, jurors can ask questions. And they did ask some questions that had people kind of startled. One not so much was the gun used to kill Travis Alexander found in her possession; no, it was not. But the other one, do his roommates have alibis, which she`s already admitted she killed him. Just saying it`s self-defense. Why are they asking about the alibis of the roommates?
Let`s bring in the attorneys to debate this. Does this show that jurors maybe see this case completely differently from the general public?
Start with Anahita.
SEDAGHATFAR: I was a little bit perplexed by this question, as well because this is not a whodunit. She has admitted that she killed Travis Alexander. But I don`t think we should read too much into this. We have to remember this was not a collective question by the jurors. It was probably just one juror that asked this question who probably just wants to make sure he has all his I`s dotted and his T`s crossed.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stacey Honowitz.
HONOWITZ: Well, as a prosecutor, if I got that question on a case where the person admitted to doing the killing, I`d be a little bit nervous. I don`t care if one person asked it or five people asked it. I mean it is a nerve-racking question. You would hope that all your ducks are in a row but you`d start to wonder, why are they worried about other people, they are not involved? So I`d be a little bit concerned as the prosecutor about that question in all honesty.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, Drew Findling.
FINDLING: I would not -- I am not shocked at all. Jurors know, they pick up the papers every day and see confessions are being thrown out all over the country. Those of us that practice in federal court know that the FBI, if they were involved, they do look at every conceivable alibi of everybody involved. They eliminate the defense`s opportunity to pursue those areas. Those are great questions.
And I think the prosecutors from Casey Anthony should have gotten a few questions from jurors.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Beth Karas?
KARAS: You know, that particular question about the alibi of the roommates because there were like eight that particular day had been answered in previous testimony. So I was a little perplexed. I suppose if the jurors have been able to talk to each other the other jurors would have said they checked out. The roommates were looked out, they checked out. That was the testimony.
So you know, somebody was probably just confused at least regarding that one.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Beth Karas, I think you make an important point. They can`t really -- they`re not supposed to talk to each other until they start deliberating.
We`ll be right back with more.
ARIAS: This is his shower. I was sitting here, I was like right here on my knees in his bathtub. I was right here and I was talking them here and I was just going through the pictures and I heard this loud ring. And I don`t really remember except Travis was screaming.
ARIAS: He`s really, he`s really persuasive.
FLORES: Did he persuade you to stay there in Mesa?
ARIAS: He kind of was playing up all the advantages if I did come to Mesa. And if I did, you know, he said you know, it`s a great place. We could still see each other and hang out on occasion.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Selin Darkalstanian, senior producer, you`re there in the courtroom. As we get ready for the defense case, it would seem that the defense is likely to try to paint a portrait of Travis Alexander not really wanting to break up with Jodi, but trying to keep her there as his secret, as her defense attorney said.
DARKALSTANIAN: Exactly. They`re going to -- the defense didn`t want -- the prosecution didn`t want to really paint her as a stalker although you could think that it would be really easy with the tire slashing and following him around town and sneaking into his house and sleeping on the couch.
But you have to remember that the defense has a really strong argument against her being a stalker because they have thousands and thousands of text messages showing that Travis was reaching out to Jodi. Travis was texting Jodi. Travis was calling Jodi. So how could she be a stalker?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and taking those text messages and those e-mails and taking them out of context could work for the defense. Will they be allowed to do that?
We`ll stay on top of it.
Nancy Grace next.
" Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Moynihan
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Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
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Defense Witness List for Arias Murder Trial
Aired January 24, 2013 - 20:00 ET
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Mesa, Arizona. They meet on a work trip in Vegas and they fall hard. But when the flame burns out and they break up, she then moves 300 miles to chase him, even converting to Mormonism.
But then 30-year-old Travis Alexander`s found slumped over dead in the shower of his five-bedroom home, shot, stabbed 29 times. And just hours after she admittedly stabs him to death, she`s literally hopping on top of a brand-new boyfriend while Travis`s body decomposing in a damp shower stall.
Twenty-seven-year-old Arias has wild sex with Travis all day, even photographing the sex, but then just minutes after the sex, slashes his throat ear to ear.
Bombshell tonight. We obtain the defense witness list in order to crack their strategy. Star witness, Jodi Arias. This as the trial judge contemplates throwing out Arias`s murder charges.
JODI ARIAS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: If Travis were here today, he would tell you that it wasn`t me.
I witnessed Travis being attacked by two individuals.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you in Travis`s house on Wednesday?
ARIAS: Absolutely not. I was nowhere near Mesa.
White Americans. They`re not mafia or anything.
I was not at Travis`s house. I was not.
I think I got knocked out (INAUDIBLE)
Are you sure it`s me? You know, because I was not there.
I`m not proud that I just left my friend there to be slaughtered at the hands of two other people.
There`s no one there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
ARIAS: I wasn`t even close to him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Latent print 169-A was individualized as the left palm of Jodi Ann Arias.
ARIAS: The explanation for that will come out soon.
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. We obtain the defense witness list in order to crack their strategy. Star witness, Jodi Arias herself. This as the trial judge is contemplating throwing out the Arias murder charges, throwing them out of court.
We are taking your calls. Joining me right now is a special guest, the renowned sheriff Joe Arpaio. He is the Maricopa County sheriff. He runs the jail Arias is housed in. Sheriff, thank you for being with us.
SHERIFF JOE ARPAIO, MARICOPA COUNTY AZ (via telephone): Nice talking to you. I met you last year here in Phoenix.
GRACE: That`s right, at the fund-raiser for Child Help.
ARPAIO: Child Help.
GRACE: We were there.
ARPAIO: So thank you for doing that.
GRACE: Well, Sheriff Joe, you and I have actually met on prior occasions dating back over the years. Many people admire your tough stance on how to run a jail.
Specifically, I want to find out whatever we can been Jodi Arias. And Sheriff Joe Arpaio has been very open. He allows news teams, reporters behind bars at his jails. He has some very unique theories on what works best behind bars. He`s a pretty open book.
Sheriff Joe, I want to hear about Jodi Arias`s day every day. What is her day like? I`ve got a few amenities here in your jail, but she`s given quite a few prison interviews, and I want to thank you for that, for the ones that have actually occurred at your jail because you know all of that is coming in at trial. Every time she speaks, it comes in at trial.
ARPAIO: Well, you know, at trial, she wears civilian clothes. When she gets back to jail, she`s wearing pink underwear and striped uniforms like everybody else. She doesn`t get any special treatment. She`s in the general population.
She`s done some good things in the jail. I have the only high school in the nation in the jail, plus GED programs. She got her GED program in the jail. She also won our inmate "Idol" contest. She won that while she`s been in our jails.
So she hasn`t had much discipline, and she`s behaving herself. And I`m sure she doesn`t like it because, you know, our meals are, like, 25, 30 cents. And we take everything away, no porno, no television, which I`ll probably let her see your station, but there`s only...
GRACE: Thank you, Sheriff Joe!
ARPAIO: ... the Weather Channel, and the -- you know, the Congress type of situation. But she`s been good. I can`t put her on the female chain gang, we have the only one in history in the world, because she hasn`t been convicted. But if she was convicted and doing the time in a jail, she would be on the chain gang.
But you know, I haven`t met her that I recall. She`s been in there four years, four years.
GRACE: Well, Joe, question. With me, Sheriff Joe Arpaio. He is taking your calls. We`ve got a lot of questions about what does she get to eat behind bars.
ARPAIO: OK. So you want to know what she eats?
GRACE: Yes.
ARPAIO: Well, she sure doesn`t get steak. I took away the breakfast and the lunch. We give her brunch, which is a bologna sandwich or peanut butter sandwich, and then at night...
GRACE: Whoa! Wait a minute! Wait! Whoa! Whoa! She`s getting ginger snaps?
ARPAIO: No, bologna sandwich.
GRACE: I`m seeing hoagie roll, peanut butter, ginger snaps, oranges, skim milk.
GRACE: No, peanut butter in lieu of the bologna sandwich. We give her an orange and maybe some donated cookies.
GRACE: I`m OK with the orange.
ARPAIO: Pardon?
GRACE: Orange yes, cookies no.
ARPAIO: Well, the cookies, they`re crackers, if they`re donated, we may give her some of the cookies. But you know, she`s treated like everybody else. We`ve got 8,000 to 10,000 people a day in our jails. She hasn`t been a problem, which has no bearing on her court trial.
GRACE: Is Jodi Arias considered a celebrity there behind bars, amongst the other inmates anyway?
ARPAIO: You know, that`s a good question. You know how inmates are when you`ve got a high-profile person in there. Of course, they`re going to back up the person. You know, the inmates love company. And yes, I guess she is because of all the media attention that she`s getting.
GRACE: Well, I`m glad to hear that she is behaving behind bars. I hope you have all-female wardens because she`s got some kind of a spell she -- the other day, a Mormon father of I think three, after two hours with Jodi Arias, wanted to leave his wife and children for her. So I hope they`re all female wardens that deal with Jodi Arias.
Everyone, with me and taking your calls, Sheriff Joe Arpaio. I`m going to go out right now to Jean Casarez. Jean, we have managed to get ahold of the defense witness list, this as the trial judge is actually considering throwing out the charges. I see the star witness appears to be Jodi Arias herself, Jean Casarez.
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": She`s on the witness list, that`s right. Also a domestic violence expert out of southern California that deals with and specializes in anger management, battered women, domestic violence.
GRACE: I want to get back to her, Jodi Arias on the witness list.
Christina Estes joining me from KTAR. What`s the likelihood she`s really going to testify?
CHRISTINA ESTES, KTAR RADIO (via telephone): Well, we won`t know until the defense really gets a feel for how their other witnesses do. But you can bet jurors want to hear from her because they`ve already heard a lot from her through the media interviews that have been played in court, the interrogation videos that have been played in court.
So they`ve actually heard her lie. So you can bet that they want to hear her on the stand to gauge in person whether she`s credible.
GRACE: With me now, Matt Zarrell. Matt, I want to go through the witness list. But I`m hearing in my ear that you have a little more information about the jail amenities there at Estrella jail?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, Nancy. She gets about 16 hours a day in what is called a common area, which is where they can watch TV, including ESPN and...
GRACE: Whoa! Wait! Wait! Am I hearing cable TV?
ZARRELL: Yes.
GRACE: She gets cable TV every day?
ZARRELL: Yes, they have -- in the day room, they have access to phones and TV, which has cable channels including ESPN.
GRACE: Go ahead.
ZARRELL: They also have an hour of outside recreation at least four times a week. They can sign up for religious services and other programs, which Arias has done, including a GED. She`s also learned sign language and Spanish while in jail. They also can access a library and request books.
GRACE: It`s my understanding they can have recreation four times a week, cable TV, phone, 16 hours a week of basically recreation in addition to that. She has one roommate. Let`s see inside the cell. Let`s take a look at the cell. And from what we have learned, she is being treated as a celebrity there inside the jail, particularly by the other cellmate. In fact, when reporters come in, they all hold up signs stating "Free Arias." There`s no telling what story she`s told these people.
But let me get this straight. Matt Zarrell, she`s only got one person in the room with her? It looks like a dormitory room.
ZARRELL: Yes, inside the room there are a three-person bunk bed. Arias sleeps in the middle bunk. The roommate sleeps on the bottom bunk. It is a very small room. Also, on the table, there were some lotions and creams that we may believe to be Arias`s or the cellmate`s and a very small toilet and sink combo, and that is it.
GRACE: I`m understanding that one of the witnesses on the witness list is her roommate, is that correct? Out to you, Jean Casarez. What do we know about the roommate?
CASAREZ: Well, you`re looking at her right there. Her name is Kimberly Ross. And she has been charged, waiting trial, kidnapping, armed robbery and burglary of the first degree, violent felonies, Nancy. That`s her cellmate.
GRACE: We`re taking a look at one of the star witnesses on the defense list, Kimberly Ross. Now, there`s a resume, felony kidnapping, armed robbery and burglary in the first degree. OK, that can`t be good, Jean.
CASAREZ: No, but she`s an older woman. That`s interesting. And she is on the witness list, Nancy, for the defense.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you met her, what was her hair color?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Blond.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did Jodi Arias go from blond to brunette almost in an instant just before killing ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander? Nancy Grace asked a professional hair stylist.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So if someone wanted to dye their hair in the car, they actually could because some formulas don`t require you to wet your hair prior to applying the color formula. So you could apply it to the hair, you know, at the point in time that you want to rinse it out, then, you know, find a bathroom or head back home.
GRACE: Just part of the elaborate scheme of Jodi Arias in changing her looks, her identity, the vehicle she was driving. As we told you in the last 48 hours, Arias busted trying to escape just before cops put on the handcuffs. And now we find out that during her road trip, she changes her identity, probably ducking into a roadside stop to dye her hair. The plot gets thicker and thicker.
And in the last hours, we obtain the defense witness list, thereby cracking the strategy that they plan to use to set Jodi Arias free. All of this as the judge considers a motion to throw out murder charges, that`s right, let Arias walk free.
Let`s see the potential defense witness list. There you see Arias herself, a psychologist, Richard Samuels (ph), Lonnie Dworkin (ph), a forensic computer expert, polygraph examiner Urbanski (ph) and domestic violence expert Alyce Laviolette.
Now, let`s talk about Laviolette. What do we know? Out to you, Jean Casarez.
CASAREZ: She`s from Long Beach, California. She practices in the southern California area. She has launched many innovative programs on alternatives to violence. She specializes in treating men who have been violent with their intimate partners. She also counsels battered women, domestic violence, specialty, anger management.
GRACE: Let`s take a listen to Laviolette.
ALYCE LAVIOLETTE, DOMESTIC VIOLENCE EXPERT: At any time that we`re creating fear in cultures -- and I look at that in our own culture -- that when we create fear and divisiveness, we alienate people from each other and we diminish our strength.
GRACE: We are giving you a little sample of what you`re going to hear on the stand from Alyce Laviolette. She has written several books. She gives speeches all over. And most importantly, she has testified in court.
Out to Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Deal Breakers." We see where this is all headed, Dr. Bethany Marshall.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, I have to say, if Jodi Arias was so fearful as this domestic violence expert is going to suggest, why would she have gotten in a car, driven across state lines like a moth to the flame to spend 15 hours having sex with her boyfriend? She won`t have. She would have run the opposite direction.
So what this expert is going to try to make a case for was that this violent attack was somehow self-defense because Jodi Arias suffered from battered wives` syndrome. The opposite could not be more true. Battered wives are fearful, shut down, timid, cut off from society, asexual. And that was not this perp.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Jason Oshins, defense attorney, New York. Also with me, Greg McKeithen, defense attorney, Atlanta.
Jason Oshins, let`s take a look at the defense witness list.
GRACE: Now, this tells us -- this is a roadmap as to where they`re headed, what they`re going to try to tell this jury. First of all, if she takes the stand -- and I`m talking about Jodi Arias -- I would predict she strategically should take the stand last. So she`ll have the benefit of all the other defense witnesses and their testimony, and she can kind of respond to that.
Although in order to get a battered women`s syndrome expert on, you got to lay the foundation first that there has been battering. Does that mean, in your opinion, that Arias has got to take the stand first?
OSHINS: No, I think you`re right. She does take it at the end and has the greatest impact. I think they`ve got to lay their theory for what their theory for this self-defense was. I mean, listen, Nancy, you`ve got to deal with the facts as they were. Certainly, she put herself in a box by lying initially. And I am sure the jury is going to want to hear what she has to say relative to that explanation.
GRACE: Well, of course, they are. I don`t know if that`s a compelling reason to ever put your client on the stand.
OSHINS: Well, I think in this case, they have to. I really do.
GRACE: Well, I think maybe that`s the best way for the jury to hear about alleged self-defense, which I don`t believe. But if they put her up, then she`s going to face cross-exam, Greg McKeithen.
GREG MCKEITHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That is correct, Nancy. But keep in mind she has a clean record. There`s very minimal damage that can be done, other than explaining away any prior inconsistent statement. And I think a good defense attorney can put that prior statement in perspective and explain her state of mind at the time of the commission of this crime and support self-defense.
GRACE: And what, may I ask, Greg McKeithen, do you see that supports self-defense in this case?
MCKEITHEN: Well, first of all, consistent with what the expert witnesses would say, her testimony would be prepped. And I would prepare her to make sure that what she says is, in fact, consistent with the theory that my expert witnesses are going to put in front of this jury.
GRACE: Well, that`s not what I asked you. I asked you, based on the evidence that we have heard, where do you see self-defense?
MCKEITHEN: Well, keep in mind, Nancy, we must look to the state of mind of the alleged perpetrator, the alleged accused in this case. And based on those facts and those circumstances, if she believes, based on the theory that we`re looking at battered women`s syndrome, that she had to act to defend herself, that is a question for the jury. It`s a jury question.
GRACE: OK, put him up, please! You just had the longest run-on sentence that was a complete non sequitur. Did you learn that at your law school, Greg?
MCKEITHEN: No, Nancy.
GRACE: It`s called -- it doesn`t follow, non sequitur, non- sequential, doesn`t make sense. You said something about we got look at her state of mind to determine who the witness is going to be based on the batterer expert and it`s up to the jury. OK.
MCKEITHEN: It is a jury question.
GRACE: I`m going to let you think about that for just a few moments.
Out to Cheryl in Illinois. Hi, Cheryl. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, there. I basically just have a comment about Jodi Arias being able to watch cable TV. And I`d like to know if any of the doctors think she shows any signs of psychosis. And I`d also like to say that I hope she does go on the stand because she will definitely jumble her lies.
GRACE: We are live, taking your calls. In the last hours, we obtained the defense witness list in the Jodi Arias murder one trial, thereby cracking the strategy that they plan to introduce in front of the jury, the witnesses, the schematics of their defense. On that list, Jodi Arias set as the star witness for the defense. Oh, yes, it looks like she`s going to try and work her magic on those 11 men in the jury pool. OK, just don`t anybody hand her a knife or a fork, OK?
Next we learn that she has gotten an elite doctor. Her name is Alyce Laviolette, a domestic violence expert who has testified on behalf of perpetrators before.
And she has her roomie. Let`s see a picture of that roommate, Kimberly Ross. What are her charges that we know of? Out to you, Matt Zarrell. Go all the way back to `97. Amuse me.
ZARRELL: OK. Well, I`ll start with the current charges she`s currently booked on. She`s been booked for kidnapping, armed robbery and burglary of the first degree. She also...
GRACE: Whoa, whoa! Slow down, Matt!
GRACE: This is not a race.
ZARRELL: Kidnapping, armed robbery and burglary of the first degree is what she`s...
GRACE: Let me drink it in, Matt! Kidnapping, robbery, burglary, first degree.
GRACE: That`s why she`s in this time.
ZARRELL: This time, correct. It started back in 1997. She had a dangerous drug charge.
GRACE: You`re leaving out 2002 and 2003.
ZARRELL: Oh, I was working my way up to it, Nancy.
ZARRELL: In 1997, she`s got the dangerous drugs, possession of equipment for manufacturing.
GRACE: What a nice girl!
ZARRELL: Dangerous drug transport and sale, use of electronic communication in a drug transaction. Then in 2002, she`s got theft means of transportation...
GRACE: Stolen car.
ZARRELL: ... `03 trafficking stolen property, theft of means of transportation, misconduct involving weapons.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you kill Travis Alexander?
ARIAS: Absolutely not.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi Arias spun a web of three lies about her whereabouts the night her ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander was murdered. Jodi Arias, seen here, first told the Mesa Police Department she was not in Arizona when Travis Alexander took his last breath at his five-bedroom home in a quiet suburb of Phoenix.
JODI ARIAS, ACCUSED OF KILLING TRAVIS ALEXANDER: I was no where near Mesa. I was no where near Phoenix.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Jodi Arias said the last time she saw Travis Alexander was in April, two months prior to the killing.
ARIAS: The last time I had any kind of sexual contact with Travis was in April.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: In a shocking twist, Jodi Arias changed her story and faced the cameras.
ARIAS: I witnessed Travis being attacked by two other individuals.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Jodi Arias told police that intruders actually broke into this house, a woman and a man, and they were masked and they are the ones who attacked Travis Alexander. She said that the intruders let her go free but she never called police and she never called 911. She said the reason for this is she was scared the intruders would hurt her family.
ARIAS: They know where I live and they know where my family lives.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She told television shows "48 Hours" and "Inside Edition" that she was, in fact, at Travis Alexander`s house the night he died.
ARIAS: They came into his home and attacked us both. It`s the scariest experience of my life. It just was so unreal.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Finally in Jodi Arias` third stab at the truth, Arias` defense team says yes, she did in fact kill Travis Alexander but in self-defense.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi believed that Travis was going to kill her. Travis left Jodi no other option but to defend herself. Jodi had to make a choice. She would either live or she would die.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: We are taking your calls.
Back out to Cheryl in Illinois. Cheryl, you were making a comment and it was what?
CHERYL, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: My comments were, basically, I`d like to know if any of the doctors are saying if she is -- Jodi is showing any signs of psychosis and I hope that she does go on the stand because I don`t know how she couldn`t jumble her lies. Especially with the camera.
GRACE: Good question. Let`s go to Dr. Bethany Marshal, psychoanalyst.
What about it, Bethany?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Well, psychosis is when you blur the boundaries between reality and nonreality. You see things that aren`t there and hear things that aren`t there.
This girl`s reality testing is quite intact. I would not let her off the hook so easily. In fact, she was so reality laden she knew that her boyfriend wanted to go to Cancun with another woman and it made her mad.
GRACE: That doesn`t sound crazy to me. That sounds like jealousy and anger. And that`s not a defense under the law.
Everyone, for those of you just joining us, in the last hours, we obtain the Jodi Arias defense witness list. And thereby we can crack their trial strategy. They plan to bring on a renowned domestic violence expert. Renowned in certain circles, that is. She has testified on behalf of many people, Alyce LaViolette. We expect her to testify that Jodi Arias was a battered woman.
And I would like to hear her explain why, if Jodi Arias was a battered woman, on one occasion traveled 300 miles to pursue the batterer, on other occasion, driving over 1,000 miles to pursue him, engaging in repeated phone sex, obviously, the sex photos? She is very pleased with herself in the photos. She`s not being forced into any of this.
I want to go out to special friend of Travis Alexander, Shannon Petersen, joining us from Marietta, California.
Shannon, thank you for being with us.
SHANNON PETERSEN, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Yes, hi, thank you.
GRACE: Shannon, when you hear the claim of self-defense, that she was a battered woman, that`s who we are learning from the witness list tonight, that they`re bringing on an expert in battered is women to defend Jodi Arias, that means their claim is to drag Travis Alexander through the mud and portray him basically as a wife beater.
PETERSEN: Yes, that`s pretty infuriating for anybody who knew Travis. You know, anybody who knew him at all. It`s unbelievable.
GRACE: Why do you say that?
PETERSEN: Because he was just this amazing individual who honestly, I don`t think would hurt a fly. He was just a bright light in the room, any room he was in, he was an amazing guy. I don`t believe he would hurt anybody.
GRACE: Did Travis ever talk about Jodi Arias?
PETERSEN: Yes, he mentioned her on a couple of occasions, just the -- just the e-mail hacking and you know, just I think that`s pretty much all he really mentioned to me.
GRACE: What would he say? What did he make of that?
PETERSEN: He was upset about it, but it was just kind of crazy. He would -- she hacked some e-mails between he and I, and I was married and moved on with my life and so they weren`t inappropriate e-mails by any means. We were just two friends that kept in touch after he moved, and, you know, she was very jealous, very jealous of these e-mails that he would -- you know, he and I sent back and forth occasionally.
GRACE: So she was jealous because there was an occasional e-mail between you and Travis Alexander? You know what? You better thank your lucky stars that you never met up with Jodi Arias because, I mean, she has apparently followed him on dates. She has e-mailed and contacted women that he would have casual dates with.
What was her complaint about him e-mailing you?
PETERSEN: I think she was just upset that he would e-mail any other woman besides her because like I said, I was married. I had kids. They were not inappropriate e-mails. Nothing I would not show my husband. And she was just I think upset that he was corresponding with me. Now, he and I were friends back when I was single. So maybe that`s why maybe she thought, you know, he still held a candle or something, I don`t know. But she was -- she was upset about it.
GRACE: You know, Shannon Petersen, I`d like the truth from somebody that doesn`t have an ax to grind or doesn`t have a dog in the fight.
Tell me who was Travis Alexander? Who was he?
PETERSEN: You know, the only word -- I mean I`ve heard him described in so many ways. He was joyous. He was always happy and uplifting, and I think because of the background and the way he was raised he was always trying to help people and lift everybody up around him.
And I know that sounds corny but that`s really who he was. He made people better. And -- I mean, I know he made me better. He helped me through a really trying time in my life and he was there for me and he was amazing. He didn`t want anything in return from anybody either.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who has her? Do you have a name?
CASEY ANTHONY, ACQUITTED OF DAUGHTER`S MURDER: Her name is Zenaida Fernandez Gonzales.
ARIAS: I just wanted to offer any assistance that I would with some really good friends of Travis`.
ANTHONY: I still have that feeling. That presence. I know that she`s alive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jodi, this is over. This is absolutely over. You need to tell me the truth.
ARIAS: Listen, the truth is I did not hurt Travis.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For years, she pretended she had a job and pretended she had a nanny.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi did not always tell the truth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am very confident just by having talked to you this short period of time that you know where she is.
ANTHONY: I don`t.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You do.
ANTHONY: I have no clue where she is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure you do.
ANTHONY: If I knew in any sense where she was, this wouldn`t have happened at all.
ARIAS: I ran. And he stopped me.
CINDY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: We need to have something to go on.
ANTHONY: Mom, I don`t have anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jodi, this is over. This is absolutely over. You need to tell me the truth.
ARIAS: Listen, the truth is I did not hurt Travis.
GRACE: Will history repeat? That is the question as tonight we obtain the defense witness list to see where the Arias defense strategy is headed.
We are taking your calls. We learn at the same time there are reams of evidence this jury did not see that the state chose not to present this as the trial judge considers throwing out charges on Jodi Arias.
To you, Matt Zarrell. There was quite a mountain of evidence that was not produced by the prosecution. What was it and why?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: OK, I`ll take -- I`ll take you through the list. You`ve got Arias` diary entries. The e- mail that we talked about that was sent to Travis` girlfriend who authorities believe Arias sent it where Arias calls the girlfriend a shameful whore. Just so you`re aware, that girlfriend, Lisa Andrews, is on the defense witness list.
Arias also purchased a .9 millimeter and hid it in the rental car. The jury didn`t hear about that. The jury didn`t hear about the knives found in a box of books at the home when police came to arrest Arias. Arias packing up to flee when cops went to arrest her. Arias asking the cops if she could put makeup on first before she was taken in for booking.
The 911 calls which we recently called have not been played for the jury. Arias is reportedly seen grinning at the memorial for Travis Alexander and these alleged letters that Arias claims is written by Travis that could not be verified by any handwriting expert.
We are still trying to determine why the state didn`t present some of this evidence, particularly the diary entries which is just days after the murder and she talks about how upset she is over Travis` death.
GRACE: The fake diary entries that many court watchers including myself believe she created in the hopes the police would seize that diary.
Woody Tripp, former police commander, polygraph expert, they also have a polygrapher on the witness list. I`ve learned that that polygrapher is also a handwriting expert.
Woody, there`s no way the polygraph results if there are any could come in at trial unless stipulated before the trial starts by both sides.
WOODY TRIPP, FORMER POLICE COMMANDER, POLYGRAPH EXPERT: Absolutely. Nancy. And that`s very interesting. Now, granted, when we look at someone like Arias and the fact that it if it was an ethical polygraph examiner and considering all the evidence that we already know is there, it`s inconceivable if -- how she would pass a polygraph test if in fact it was administered ethically and the correct questions were asked.
nd again, with stipulation you know both sides agreeing to it, I cannot see how the prosecution would go agree to that knowing that this is the defense examiner who would be coming in extolling her virtues of how she told the truth which we know is absolutely a lie and could probably start it off with once upon a time and a land far away.
GRACE: You know, Jean Casarez, all of this evidence that we know about, her fake diary entries where she`s like, what happened to Travis, I guess just hoping the police would seize her diaries. The e-mails to the girlfriend that surprisingly the defense has on their witness list, Lisa Andrews, a .9 millimeter gun and ammo, knives that she was set to escape just as they arrested her.
The 911 call not introduced. The fact that when she`s arrested on the murder of her long-time lover, instead of breaking down into hysterics, crying, praying, she instead says, be a lamb and wait for me to apply a little mascara. Be right back.
The fact that she was grinning and seemingly upbeat at his memorial and then, of course, the letters, the letters that her mother took to the "National Enquirer," letters allegedly written by Travis Alexander where he confesses or alludes to all sorts of misconduct. I guarantee you, he did not write those letters, Jean Casarez.
And I think an innovative technique the state could use is to get those letters and show she wrote the letters trying to frame a dead man.
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": And we`ll see if the defense still wants to try to get them in with this handwriting expert.
Nancy, one thing you forgot, Lisa, the very close girlfriend of Travis Alexander, her tires were slashed when Travis` tires were slashed. She did not testify to that in the trial.
GRACE: Wow. Wow. You know, also, the judge mulling an attempt to have the charges on Arias thrown out of court. What`s the issue, Jean?
CASAREZ: The issue is the defense wants the murder charge thrown out, based on the theory of felony murder. That Jodi Arias killed Travis during the commission of a burglary, breaking into that house. Defense says she was invited into that house, and they`re saying because of that, it should go away. The premeditation though would stay.
GRACE: Now interesting, because if the felony murder charge goes away, then they`re left with just premeditation. Charges at this hour, the judge considering throwing them out.
We`re taking your calls. Out to I believe Tara in Tennessee. Hi, Tara. What`s your question, dear?
TARA, CALLER FROM TENNESSEE: Hi, I would like to first tell Jennifer how sorry I am she lost her friend in such a tragic way and now sees him brutalized again. But my question is, if Travis was lunging out at Jodi and she -- because she dropped the camera, how is it that she managed to pick this camera up before she started defending herself to accidentally take the pictures? That -- I don`t understand.
GRACE: You know, another thing along that line, Tara in Tennessee, I`m going to throw this to Christina Estes with KTAR.
Christina, what? So she drops the camera. He lunges at her and she suddenly runs and gets a butcher knife and a gun all in about 30 seconds? How was that supposed to go down, Christina?
CHRISTINA ESTES, REPORTER, KTAR: That`s a great question and it`s very interesting because we heard testimonies when the prosecution presented witnesses and we saw the detective sort of showing how the photos were taken or mistakenly taken in that when the photos were -- the camera was upside down, someone could accidentally step on it and the picture would be taken and there was another area where we saw a photo that looked like a hallway, a bloody sort of hallway.
And so it looked like the camera had moved obviously from the shower area to somewhere else. So during that process when only Jodi and Travis know exactly what happened that camera somehow moved.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would say she`s a model inmate. She`s very intelligent, she reads a lot. Can`t really go to classes because she`s a maximum security inmate. But very savvy about the law. She understands our grievous procedures quite well. She`s just very quiet. You don`t hear much from her.
GRACE: We take a look behind jail walls to find out how Arias is living. We also learn that her roommate there behind bars is on the defense witness list. Why?
Let`s take a look at Kimberly Ross. I introduced her earlier. She`s got a rap sheet about as long as the interstate. Hope the state`s ready with certified copies of those convictions. Not only that, a battered women`s defense expert, Alyce Nicolette -- excuse me, Alyce LaViolette. Richard Samuels, psychologist. Also a forensic computer expert.
Jean Casarez, what are they going to do with a computer expert? Possibly challenge those time of date stamps on the photos?
CASAREZ: That`s a good point. That`s a very good point. Also maybe foundational to talk about retrieving text messages from Travis Alexander, some that -- to allege that he was an abuser toward Arias.
GRACE: Well, you know, I would think, Jean, they would have to hand items like that over to the state if they bring on an expert.
CASAREZ: Well, that`s been a big issue. That`s -- yes, that`s been a big issue because all these text messages, the state didn`t get to the defense, so the defense is currently asking for a mistrial because of all of that. They finally got them, over 15,000, I think.
GRACE: To Dr. Bill Manion, medical examiner joining me out of Philadelphia.
Dr. Manion, why do you believe this was not a case of self-defense?
DR. BILL MANION, M.D., MEDICAL EXAMINER, BURLINGTON COUNTY, NJ: Well, she had premeditated intentions. The fact that the gun was missing, the fact that she drove -- she rented a car and drove so far, and the fact that he was the victim of an overkill. He was basically killed three times. The bullet could have killed him, the gash to his throat could have killed him, the chest wound could have killed him. He was -- this is a victim of overkill.
GRACE: We remember American hero, Army Sergeant 1st Class Carlo Santos Silva, 32, Clarkesville, Tennessee. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Meritorious Service Medal, parents Francisco and Monica, brother Dominic, widow Kristen, son Cameron.
Carlos Santos Silva, American hero.
ARIAS: I could have just driven there but I found out and saw what was going on. I just felt totally helpless.
GRACE: Out to Bonnie Druker, the defense set to kick off. We`ve got a preview now that we`ve obtained the defense witness list. I`m very curious about why they are bringing on one of Travis Alexander`s girlfriends.
BONNIE DRUKER, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: They`re bringing on Lisa Andrews. The prosecution was going to bring her on at first, but now the defense is bringing her on. She is going to talk about the slashed tires and these letters, Nancy.
GRACE: I don`t know how that could be helpful to the defense.
To Brittany in Tennessee, hi. What`s your question, dear?
BRITTANY, CALLER FROM TENNESSEE: Hi. I`m just curious about how the defense is going to prove self-defense in this situation. I mean, that`s an awfully brutal crime.
GRACE: You know, Jason Oshins, Greg McKeithen -- Jason, how would do it if you had to put up a self-defense in this case?
JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think you`ve seen a bit of the roadmap and some of the defense witnesses. They`re going to lay out with their experts on the different ways that victims react to being abused. Not everyone follows the script that we would want to see. And just go ahead and do it that way and say this was the culmination of what was a violent, abusive relationship.
GRACE: What about it, Greg?
GREG MCKEITHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I agree. Basically, I would follow the lead of my expert witnesses and make sure that my client testifies accordingly to match the testimony of the expert witnesses.
GRACE: So you`re saying, then, she`ll take the stand.
Dr. Bethany Marshall, do you think the episode where she tried to beat her little brother to death with a baseball bat as a youth will come into evidence if she takes the stand?
MARSHALL: Oops, that doesn`t look so good, does it? Well, if it does, I mean, the jurors are going to see this blatant disregard and violations for the rights of others and aggression starting as an early age, which, as you know, Nancy, is a sign of an extreme personality disorder. Not going to make her look good.
GRACE: I mean, I get on to John David and Lucy if they even touch each with one finger. This was a baseball bat.
Everyone, ABC`s hidden camera hit "What Would You Do?" is up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern, as we head to Phoenix. Good-night, friend.
" Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Moynihan
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Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
Reply #94 on:
January 27, 2013, 10:07:43 AM »
Jodi Arias on defense witness list leading some to speculate she may testify
January 25, 2013
" Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Moynihan
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Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
Reply #95 on:
January 27, 2013, 10:09:15 AM »
Jodi Arias: Cold-blooded killer or victim?
The Jodi Arias Trial: A tumultuous relationship leads to a man's brutal murder, multiple stories by his ex-girlfriend and a trial made for tabloids
January 26, 2013
" Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Moynihan
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Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
Reply #96 on:
January 27, 2013, 10:11:05 AM »
Will Jodi Arias's words be a death sentence in her murder trial?
Published January 25, 2013 | On the Record
This is a rush transcript from "On the Record," January 25, 2013. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: Will Jodi Arias's own words blow a big hole in her defense? She has changed her story about the day of the murder, and she's done it three times -- changed it three times! Prosecutors now trying to convince the jury she is, in addition to being a murderer, a serial liar, and they are using videotapes of her police interrogation to do it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're telling me about two people coming in or however many people coming in and taking care of him and letting you go is just so far-fetched, I can't believe it. Why would they do this to him? What were they arguing about? What did they say, their details?
Video at Link
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Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
Reply #97 on:
January 27, 2013, 10:17:50 AM »
The State`s Case Against Jodi Arias
Aired January 25, 2013 - 20:00 ET
JODI ARIAS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: Listen...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am listening. Believe me, I`m listening.
ARIAS: It`s hurting my reputation. It`s casting me in a bad light. (INAUDIBLE) white Americans. And they`re not mafia or anything.
Travis was screaming the whole time! He wasn`t screaming like a girl, he was, like, shocked.
I ran! I ran into the closet. I think I got knocked out, but I don`t think it was that long.
Such a blur.
I chickened out like a little bitch!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s you.
ARIAS: It looks like me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is you.
ARIAS: That is not my foot!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t believe you.
ARIAS: Pigtails? (INAUDIBLE)
There`s a morbid curiosity (INAUDIBLE)
How many times was Travis stabbed?
I`m all for the 10th Commandment, thou shalt not kill.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Taking a look analytically at all the evidence, now we are in week four of the Jodi Arias murder one trial, there has been a mountain of evidence presented by the state against Jodi Arias. Now, even though there is a mountain of evidence, that does not ensure a conviction. We saw a mountain of evidence in the tot mom, Casey Anthony, trial.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: State of Florida versus Casey Marie Anthony. As to case number 2008-CF-15606-0, as to the charge of first degree murder, verdict as to count one, we, the jury, find the defendant not guilty. So say we all. Dated at Orlando, Orange County, Florida, on this 5th day of July, 2011.
GRACE: We saw a mountain of evidence in the O.J. Simpson double murder trial.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Superior court of California, county of Los Angeles. In the matter of the people of the state of California versus Orenthal James Simpson, case number BA097211, we the jury in the above entitled action find the defendant, Orenthal James Simpson, not guilty of the crime of murder in violation of penal code section 187-A, a felony upon Nicole Brown Simpson, a human being, as charged in count one of the information.
GRACE: So a mountain of evidence, so to speak, does not a guilty verdict ensure.
ARIAS: If I had planned to hurt him in any way, I -- you know, I`m not the brightest person, but I don`t think I could stab him. And I think I would have to shoot him continuously until he was dead, if that were my intention. I mean, again, I bring up the gloves again, that I would have to wear gloves because, I mean, I`m not too worried about prints. I guess they`re all over anyway. But I would never stab him. But if -- if I had it in me anywhere to kill him, the least I could have done was make it humane as possible, or quick or something, you know? Not that killing is humane, so to speak. (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know what you mean.
ARIAS: He was still alive!
GRACE: What matters the most is what evidence speaks or resonates with the jury. And although there were some horrific crime scene photos and autopsy photos, I think what resonated with the jury the most, aside from the shock value placed on those crime scene and autopsy photos, is the intricate web of lies told by Jodi Arias. And lucky for the prosecution, much of it was caught on tape.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just -- I just see -- like, I`ve seen "The Sopranos," and they`re not mafia or anything, but -- you know, I just -- honestly, there`s part of me inside that thinks they`re never going to come after (INAUDIBLE) If you don`t believe me, that`s OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m trying to. I`m trying real hard.
ARIAS: I`m just saying that, you know, it sounds to me like -- like I`m already in the system, pretty far in. I`m not getting out any time soon. And as long as the rap falls on me, I think that...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s not good. Don`t do this.
ARIAS: No, I`m just saying. I think that as long as that is -- there`s less of a chance that my little brother is going to be hurt, or my mom or my dad or my sister that live there.
GRACE: Because we see Arias giving her first version, that she was nowhere near the scene on police interrogation video. Then after just one night behind bars, we see Arias curled up in the fetal position and basically lying on the interrogation table, giving her second version of what happened, that two ninja-style warriors dressed in solid black killed Travis Alexander.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was the first thing they did to him? You were there. You saw it. What was the first thing...
ARIAS: I didn`t actually see it. I heard it first.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was there an argument? No?
ARIAS: No, not between Travis and I.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need to start letting me know what happened. You`re telling me that some other people were there. You know how much that concerns me.
ARIAS: I don`t know who they were. They know where I live, or they know where my parents are. I don`t know if they know where my grandparents are, but they got my address and they know where my family is. Sorry!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you`re trying to say you`re doing this to protect your family? Why would someone do this to you? And to him?
ARIAS: I don`t think they really intended to do anything to me.
GRACE: This is all with the backdrop of the defense opening statement, where they admit, point blank, Jodi Arias killed Travis Alexander.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi accidentally dropped Travis`s camera, and as that camera was falling, that was enough for Travis because he lunged at Jodi in anger, knocking her to the ground in the bathroom, where there was a struggle.
Jodi`s life was in danger. In just under a minute -- in just a minute, from this picture, we go to the next picture, where it`s Travis`s body. He`s clearly injured already, in a minute.
Now, that very brief moment of time, a minute, is not the result of premeditation. It is not the result of a planned-out attack. It is just one minute, just one minute of time between the camera falling until you see the picture of Travis with blood. One minute.
In that one minute, had Jodi not been forced to defend herself, none of us would be here. In that one minute, had Jodi not chosen to defend herself, she would not be here.
GRACE: So you got these three stories. You`ve got three versions of Travis Alexander`s death. So they know Jodi Arias is a liar. That should, if the jury is reasonable, taint everything the defense says. And I think that is the single most important thing that happened. I think that is what will resonate with the jury.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not a case of whodunnit. The person who done it, the person who committed this killing, sits in court today. It`s the defendant, Jodi Ann Arias.
GRACE: They may have bad dreams over the crime scene and autopsy photos. I know I have. But what resonates probatively -- which means what is proved, proven to the jury -- her lying, I think because the jury is the sole decision maker when it comes to credibility. Who are you going to believe? I think that`s very, very important that the state establish that she`s a liar.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This love, well, she rewarded that love for Travis Victor Alexander by sticking a knife in his chest. And you know, he was a good man, according to her. And with regard to being a good man, well, she slit his throat as a reward for being a good man. And in terms of these blessings, well, she knocked the blessings out of him by putting a bullet in his head.
GRACE: There was a lot of speculation about what the defense would be in light of the fact that Arias had already told two conflicting versions, one that she was not there at the time of the murder, two that two ninja- style warriors dressed in solid black killed Travis Alexander. A lot of speculation. Was she going to stick with one of those stories? Would there be a third story?
Well, now we know the answer to that mystery. There`s a third story, and that is what the defense said in opening statements point-blank to the jury, Jodi Arias killed Travis Alexander.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What would have forced Jodi? It was Travis`s continual abuse. And on June 4th of 2008, it had reached a point of no return. And sadly, Travis left Jodi no other option but to defend herself. On that horrible day, Jodi believed that Travis was going to kill her. He threatened to kill her. And given her experience with him, she had no reason to not believe him.
GRACE: Why self defense? They are also planning to bring in a battered women`s syndrome expert. Now, to meet the criteria of the battered women`s syndrome, there must have been a history of domestic abuse. The defense seems to be saying that there was no prior physical abuse, only verbal abuse.
Will that carry the day? Don`t know. So far, what the state has put in -- the state`s case alludes to no physical violence whatsoever. Now, will this defense strategy, self-defense, require Arias to take the stand?
I guarantee you this. The defense will try every contortion, every backbend, every flip, every somersault possible not to put Arias on the stand. But they may have no choice. If they can make out a prior verbal or emotional or physical abuse without putting her on the stand, that`s what they`ll do. But if they need her, they`ll put her on the stand.
GRACE: I would venture to say that one of the stars of the trial for the state is the photographs of the crime scene. The crime scene not was only horrific, which works to the state`s advantage, but also can lay out the progression of the murder, most importantly, the nine stab wounds to Travis Alexander`s back, which should in a normal universe torpedo a self- defense claim. You cannot stab somebody nine times in the back as they`re trying to get away from you and claim they were attacking you. Now, that`s a new definition of rear attack!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And assuming this is Travis Alexander, what would you associate that blood with?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A cut to the throat.
GRACE: I think that the crime scene is going to be a key component in the jury`s decision. The fingerprint expert highly important because that expert compared and lifted the prints that show Jodi Arias`s palm print with her blood and Travis Alexander`s blood commingled.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And with regard to exhibit 22, what are your -- what were your findings or what were your conclusions?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Latent print 169-A was individualized as the left palm of Jodi Ann Arias.
GRACE: Also, her hair was there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that how you want to leave this, these far- fetched excuses as to why your blood is there, why your hair is there, why your palm print is there, why pictures are there?
GRACE: Now, her fingerprint or palm print or her DNA being in the home could have occurred innocently because she was there so many, many times, obviously, having marathon sex sessions. But the blood -- his blood and her blood -- found at the scene in her palm print clearly show that this was from the murder itself because there`s no other incident that we know of where they both bled, both their blood got on her hand and it deposited on the wall. It had to be from the time of the murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no way anyone else could have left your palm print in blood on that wall. No way. Get that through your head.
ARIAS: If I was going to ever try to kill somebody, I would use gloves. I have plenty of them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody said you -- you know, you had planned this out perfectly. Maybe you were going there just to (INAUDIBLE) have a good time with him. Something got out of hand.
GRACE: That one print alone -- I would say combined with the digi-cam photos, but that one print alone puts her on the defense. She`s at the scene at the time of the murder. She`s touched his body. She`s not calling 911. We know all of that from that one palm print. And the rest unfolds.
GRACE: The medical examiner testified for a prolonged period under oath, and that was very important. Everything he had to say was critical to the state`s case because not only are they trying to make out a murder case, they are going for the death penalty. So they must not only show a murder, they must defeat her claim of self-defense. And they must establish facts sufficient to meet "heinous" as an aggravating circumstance to get the death penalty.
So their evidence is threefold that they`re trying to seek from the medical examiner.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If somebody were standing and they were -- if the two people were standing, facing each other, and the person with the knife is reaching over the back, that`s going to have less force to it, wouldn`t it, than somebody who`s standing behind and being able to drive the knife right in without stopping?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Generally, I`d agree with that. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. That wound -- you were able to tell a direction or trajectory on that wound, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. It`s pretty much straight into the chest cavity from the right side of the chest.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Doesn`t it have a slightly upper trajectory?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If it is, it`s very slight, because the heart is right -- the vena cava is right in that location where the wound is.
GRACE: What was so important is that, A, he shows -- the medical examiner -- the nine stab wounds to the back. That defeats the self- defense claim. B, the multiple stabbing of an unarmed man, 29 stab wounds, including a smiley face slash from ear to ear, which -- you know, you`ve got to get the visual on this, of Arias behind him and above him, slashing his throat from ear to ear, maybe even pulling his head back to slash his throat, pulling him by the hair to slash his throat that way.
Hold that visual for a moment because that is what I would have the jury do, hold that visual for a moment. Now, see, they couldn`t do that had the medical examiner not testified the way he did.
GRACE: So you`ve got defeating self-defense claim with the nine stab wounds. You`ve got heinous. And also, you`ve got the fact that she shoots him after she stabs him to death. How do we know that? We know that he`s down by the trajectory path of the bullet. It goes top to bottom above the right eyebrow, lodging in the left cheek. They had to cut it out. It was still in him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know you tried to wash him off, tried to get some of the blood off, tried to clean him up a little bit. But you`re even denying the pictures of you being there. There`s pictures of you laying on the bed in pigtails.
ARIAS: Pigtails?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I`ve got pictures of you that I`ve blown up. And you`ve got the little mole right there. It`s the same one. It`s you. It`s obvious. I can show you some of these pictures. Do you want to see the pictures? Will that change your mind?
ARIAS: I mean, I am curious.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Let me take a little break then. Let me go find them. I`ll show you.
ARIAS: I wasn`t there.
GRACE: The trajectory shows that she was above them when she shot him, but we also know he was already dead or dying at the time of the gunshot wound because there was no blood pressure, there was no heartbeat pumping the blood, or else it would have spurt out. It didn`t. So just for good measure, it was, Boom! Take that, Alexander! That`s heinous. That is cold.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have something to tell me, but you`re just so resistant. I know you`re afraid because you`re already going through it right now. There`s no backing up. There`s no backing up to yesterday. There`s no backing up to that day.
GRACE: The explicit photos, the sex photos that were introduced to the jury were not brought in for prurient interest or salacious purposes. They were brought in to show that Jodi Arias was not being abused. She was not being beaten. She was there of her own free volition, not only taking part in everything but taking photos of it on her digi-cam. She is not a battered woman. That is the point of these photos.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s already happened. And unfortunately, you`re going to have to face the consequences.
ARIAS: You know, if I did that, I would be fully ready to face the consequences. I`m not really for things like -- you know, I`m all for the 10 Commandments, Thou shall not kill. OK? But...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no evidence to show anybody else did that. None.
GRACE: Well, the strategy of the prosecution in the use of the lead detective, Detective Flores, was unique and great. Very often, you`ll see a prosecutor put the detective up in the beginning or the end, and they testify almost in a monologue (SIC) and lay out everything there is about the case.
In the Arias prosecution, the state brought him on as they built the case. First (ph) it`s phase A, phase B, phase C. And they would bring him on each time to testify about that building block, which I found to be very, very effective. I think it was a very good trial strategy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you recall her saying that he had said several mean things to her?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: During any of these e-mails. And I guess about -- according to your testimony previously, it was about a year-and-a-half later that you actually looked at these e-mails, correct?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Do you remember seeing e-mails in which Mr. Alexander referred to Ms. Arias as a, quote, "three-hole binder?"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. Hearsay.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As a slut?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As a whore?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
ARIAS: Hello?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello. Could I speak with Jodi, please?
ARIAS: This is Jodi.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Jodi. Detective Steve Flores, Mesa, Arizona, Police Department.
ARIAS: Oh, hey, how are you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good. I just got a message from one of my patrol officers that you needed to talk to me about something?
ARIAS: Well, I just wanted to offer any assistance that I may have. I was a really good friend of Travis`s (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What have you heard so far?
ARIAS: I heard that he was -- that he passed away and that it was -- I don`t know. I`ve heard all kinds of rumors. They said there was a lot of blood. I heard that his roommate found him or a friend found him or people were -- I`m sorry, I`m upset. But I heard that nobody has been able to get ahold of him for almost a week, and that was about the last time I spoke to him, too, which is actually why I thought I -- my friend said I should call you anyway and let you know the last time I talked to him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, any help we can get from anybody who had any kind of contact with him (INAUDIBLE)
ARIAS: I used to talk to him quite regularly. I used to live there. I live in northern California now. But after I moved -- I moved a few months ago, and after I moved, we kept in touch very regularly, and kind of felt that a little bit (INAUDIBLE) dropped down to a couple of times a week. But I hadn`t heard from him. I talked to him on Tuesday night. I looked at my phone records on the Internet to check. I definitely talked to him Tuesday night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So was that your cell phone?
ARIAS: Yes, it was my cell. That`s the only phone I have.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this the number that I called?
ARIAS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And what did you guys talk about?
ARIAS: It was brief. I was driving out to Utah, and you know, he was like, Are you going to come out and see me? I`m, like, No. He was supposed to make a trip up here at the end of the month because he -- we -- a thing that we are doing, it`s called -- it`s a book called "1,000 Places to See Before You Die."
GRACE: I found the receipts presented to the jury to be very probative because there`s receipt, receipt, receipt, receipt, receipt, and then suddenly, the trail goes dead. And then it`s receipt, receipt, receipt, receipt, receipt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take a look at exhibit 237.004. And this is to Valero, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is the date on that one?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: June 2nd, 2008.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the time?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what kind of card was used?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mastercard.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are the last four digits?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it also has a name here, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s the name?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jodi Arias.
GRACE: She clearly was flying under the radar during that time period so she would not be identified or placed around Travis Alexander`s home or in that jurisdiction. That`s what that was all about.
And I`m interested about her cell phone usage at that time, as well. Recall how she said her cell went dead? She knew enough to know that triangulation could be used to place her in that area. So I`m willing to bet money on it, that when we see her phone records in full, that there will be very little cell phone usage while she`s in that jurisdiction, so she won`t be placed there.
ARIAS: I have not been near his house. Isn`t there...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I pulled your cell records. Your cell phone was turned off between here and here, OK? But the last place it pulled (ph) it was here. The next place it turned on was here. What does that show me?
ARIAS: Oh, well, I began -- oh, no, no, no, no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there plenty of time for you to do that? Yes. Do I believe that you had come to visit Travis? Yes. I truly believe it. Did you have the opportunity? Yes. You were traveling alone. There`s no other witnesses. Your phone just happened to turn off from here to here.
ARIAS: Well, I didn`t turn it off physically. It died.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then it magically -- you found your charger here?
ARIAS: It was under (INAUDIBLE) packed under the seat on the passenger side. And it was when I was...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you were lost, you couldn`t have pulled over and found it or...
ARIAS: Well, I did finally start looking when I was stranded. I wouldn`t have pulled over when I was lost.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think you`re being completely honest with me about that trip.
ARIAS: I honestly got lost. It`s -- it`s bad timing.
GRACE: There is a problem whenever a murder weapon is not found. And here two murder weapons have not been found, a knife and a gun. Yes, it hurts the case. It would be better if the weapon were found, the weapons were found. But there`s a mountain of evidence to convict Arias.
ARIAS: (INAUDIBLE) talk about this, but was there -- was there, like, some kind of weapon used? Or was there -- was there a gun? Was there...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t say what type of weapon was used, but I`m guessing there was a weapon used by the type of injuries that were left behind. Do you know of him having any weapons at all in the house?
ARIAS: His two fists, really. (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No handguns or rifles or...
ARIAS: No. He wasn`t one to -- no.
ARIAS: He was more into, like, wrestling and (INAUDIBLE) you know, he (INAUDIBLE) a punching bag -- like, he loved beating the crap out of a punching bag.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
GRACE: Sadly. we know that a mountain of evidence does not always suffice for a guilty verdict.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST, "ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL": In my opinion, Jodi Arias`s defense team took a page from Casey Anthony`s defense team and basically tried to pull the rug out from the prosecution by admitting a lot of their case and sort of robbing them of the chance to prove that she was there by saying, Yes, I was there. And so essentially, they`re trying to sort of co-opt the prosecution`s case, claim it for themselves, and then provide some kind of explanation that would make it all make sense in Jodi Arias`s favor. And I don`t think they`re going to be able to do that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when did you guys actually start dating?
ARIAS: Not for a while. We met in September. The following weekend, he invited me to church. And the following Wednesday of that Sunday, he gave me a copy of the book of Mormon. I started reading it. I got baptized November 26th.
We would talk a lot and hang out a lot. We kind of had, like, a thing, and there was definitely an attraction and an interest, but we weren`t officially dating until about February of 2007, around his birthday. I think that a string of events sort of pushed that together. Travis had kind of a commitment phobia, I guess you could say.
GRACE: The prosecution wrapped its case surprisingly early. I believe that they think they made out the case. And yes, they did.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The state may call its next witness..
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The state rests.
GRACE: There`s quite a bit of evidence they chose not to introduce. That`s their decision, and they`re basing that decision on a lot of different things. It could be that they know the judge may rule adversely to them with other evidence. There may be issues about the other evidence that we don`t know.
I would say, however, that had I been prosecuting the case, I would have introduced every scintilla of evidence I had in my case in chief, not try to save it for rebuttal. You don`t know if you`re going to be allowed to introduce it on rebuttal.
For instance, the fact that Jodi Arias was busted trying to escape just before she was handcuffed. Under secret police surveillance on her grandparents` house, they saw her loading and packing boxes to leave town. Why would she do that? Including in those boxes, knives, and in the rental car, a hidden 9-millimeter weapon. I think that`s very probative. The jury will never know about it unless it comes out on rebuttal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you met her, what was her hair color?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Blond.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did Jodi Arias go from blond to brunette almost in an instant before killing ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When she came over to watch Jordan, what was her hair color?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dark.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How is a dye job like this done without making a huge mess when you`re literally on the run? Nancy Grace asked a professional hairstylist.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So if someone wanted to dye their hair in the car, they actually could because some formulas don`t require you to wet your hair prior to applying the color formula. So you could apply it to the hair. You know, at the point in time that you want to rinse it out, then you know, find a bathroom or head back home.
GRACE: I expect the defense to focus largely on dragging Travis Alexander`s reputation through the mud and destroying any legacy he had left behind.
ARIAS: And a lot of people were dropping my name, and I said I`m not worried about it because I didn`t do it, I said, but it`s very much -- it`s hurting my reputation right now and it`s casting me in a bad light.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wouldn`t be worrying about your reputation right now. I`d be worrying about the rest of your life. That means nothing, absolutely nothing.
ARIAS: Well, my reputation will affect the rest of my life, so I am worried about my reputation.
GRACE: I also think they will focus on trying to establish that she was a battered woman, although we don`t know of any physical attack on her.
ARIAS: Can I see the pictures?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have your blood at the scene, your hair with blood at the scene, your palm print at the scene in blood. What`s going on there?
ARIAS: Well, I can explain the blood and the hair. I don`t know about my left palm print.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How can you explain the blood and the hair?
ARIAS: Well, because I used to bathe Napoleon all the time and...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You haven`t been there since April, right? He`s had the house cleaned several times since then. And this hair was not just a hair, you know, in the shower or something. This hair was stuck with blood and obviously had blood on it at the time it got stuck, where it ended up.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This was one of the bloodiest crime scenes we have seen in a criminal trial in recent times. There was blood everywhere. There was blood in the hallway. There was blood in the shower. There were blood stains on the walls, on the toilet, and especially in the sink. The sink is like a pool of blood.
And so it is so overwhelming, it is so mind-boggling and heart- wrenching to see all that blood and know that Travis Alexander did not die quickly or painlessly, that this was a long, long, violent, painful death.
GRACE: A lot of court watchers have the question, will she take the stand? She may insist that she take the stand over her lawyer`s objections. I think it would be a very bad move. I wouldn`t do it. I would do a somersault, a backflip and find a way to get self-defense in without her taking the stand. And they may just be able to do that through some voicemails that Travis Alexander apparently left her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: State of Arizona versus Jodi Ann Arias.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God!
911 OPERATOR: 911 emergency.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A friend of ours is dead in his bedroom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I saw him curled up in the -- he`s curled up in the shower.
911 OPERATOR: Had he had anybody bothering him recently?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, he has. He has an ex-girlfriend that`s been bothering him. Her name is Jodi.
ARIAS: There was a point in time where we were in love, but it was short-lived.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Motivational speaker Travis Alexander was viciously murdered at his Mesa home back in June.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The person who done it, the person who committed this killing sits in court today.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was a print left on the wall in blood that led investigators to Jodi Arias.
ARIAS: I would be shaking in my boots right now if I had to answer to God for such a heinous crime.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you -- I have to ask you this. Did you kill Travis Alexander?
ARIAS: Absolutely not. No, I had no part in it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you had nothing to do with Travis Alexander`s murder.
ARIAS: Nothing to do with it.
I witnessed Travis being attacked by two other individuals.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who?
ARIAS: I don`t know who they were.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jodi Arias changed her story yet again. She acted in self-defense.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi, were you ever afraid of Travis?
ARIAS: I`ll pass on that question.
No jury is going to convict me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not?
ARIAS: Because I`m innocent. And you can mark my words on that one, no jury will convict me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tell me what a typical day is like for Jodi Arias?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Morning breakfast starts about 9:00 o`clock, and it will be (INAUDIBLE) sack, with usually peanut butter and fresh made bread. And that`s her breakfast and lunch, her brunch. She may read. She has dayroom access for 16 hours. Phone calls are available to her. She may make phone calls, pretty much day-to-day life in a small cell with another person.
GRACE: Whenever there is a break in evidence, I think that works to the detriment of the state.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You understand you look guilty here.
ARIAS: I understand that everything -- all of the evidence against me right now is very compelling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What really happened in there?
ARIAS: In a nutshell, two people took Travis`s life, two monsters.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You did not shoot Travis.
ARIAS: No. I`ve never even shot a real gun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You did not stab him 27 times.
ARIAS: I never -- that -- that`s heinous. I`d never...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or slit his throat from ear to ear.
ARIAS: I can`t imagine slitting anyone`s throat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That records check shows you that you reported a gun stolen, a .25 auto.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: One of the reasons Jodi Arias was crying and sobbing so much during Heather Connor`s (ph) testimony is that Heather Connor was the witness that allowed the prosecution to show this horrific crime scene.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just happens to be the same caliber as the weapon used to kill him.
ARIAS: A .25 auto was used to kill Travis?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, along with multiple stab wounds.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And essentially, I think Jodi was trying to pull the focus away from those horrible pictures and back to her and try to drum up a little sympathy for her. She`s the one who created that crime scene. She knows what it looks like. She was there. But they start showing those photos, and she starts sobbing and sobbing. I think she`s trying to neutralize the incredible impact of those photos.
GRACE: I think that by the time a jury comes back for the defense, they will have forgotten a large portion of what the state presented. That`s not good.
" Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Moynihan
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Posts: 15663
Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
Reply #98 on:
January 27, 2013, 10:53:22 AM »
After the Casey Anthony fiasco, it is worrisome how this jury will vote. To me she is obviously guilty, but I thought that about Casey too.
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Posts: 44735
Re: Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
Reply #99 on:
January 27, 2013, 11:12:34 AM »
Quote from: cookie on January 27, 2013, 10:53:22 AM
After the Casey Anthony fiasco, it is worrisome how this jury will vote.
To me she is obviously guilty, but I thought that about Casey too.
From what I've been able to read and watch concerning this trial, I don't think the prosecution did their job as well as they could have. And yeah, unfortunately I know what you mean about the Casey Anthony fiasco.
" Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Moynihan
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High Profile Crimes and Trials (not missing persons)
Jodi Arias trial - for the murder of Travis Alexander
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Travis Alexander of Mesa, AZ Found Murdered June 2008-Jodi Arias on Trial
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===> Tracy Ocasio - Orlando/Ocoee, Florida
===> Shaniya Nicole Davis, 5 Fayetteville, NC Missing 11/10/09(BODY FOUND)
===> Holly Bobo, 20yrs old missing Parsons, TN 4/13/11
===> Hailey Dunn - 13yrs old - Colorado City, TX missing 12/27/10 (Body Found)
===> Elizabeth Olten - 9yrs, Jefferson City, MO missing 10/21/09 (BODY FOUND)
===> Lindsey Baum - McCleary, WA 6/26/09
===> Amber Leeanne Dubois 14yrs old - Escondido, CA(BODY FOUND)
===> Chelsea King, 17, Missing 2-25-2010 Rancho Bernadino CA (BODY FOUND)
===> Sandra Cantu, 8 years old - Tracy, CA(BODY FOUND)
===> Madeleine McCann - Portugal
===> Christine Marie Sheddy - missing since 11/13/2007 - Maryland(BODY FOUND)
===> Nevaeh Amyah Buchanan 5yr Monroe Michigan(BODY FOUND)
===> Gabriel Johnson 8 mo., last seen 12/26/09 Tempe AZ-San Antonio TX
===> Stacy Ann Peterson missing & Kathleen Savio murdered - Illinois
===> Zahra Clare Baker - 10yrs old Hickory, NC (Body Found)
Natalee Holloway
=> Natalee Holloway
=> Important Case Documents
===> Joran Statements/PV's
===> Paulus Statements/PV's
===> Deepak Statements/PV's
===> Satish Statements/PV's
===> Misc Statements/PV's
=> LCD Archive
=> Shango/Simian and other Codetalkers
Current Events and Musings
=> Monkey Musings / Open Discussion
=> Pop Culture Main
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===> Scared Monkeys Radio with Dana Pretzer
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=> Religion (discussion and debate)
The Monkey Lounge
=> The Monkey Lounge
===> Fashion & Decorating
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===> Games
=> Inspirational
===> Memorial - Gone but Never Forgotten
===> Gratefulness - Light a Candle in Prayer
===> Inspirational scriptures, songs, stories and prayers
Natalee Discussions (2005 ARCHIVE)
=> Natalee Holloway
=> Theory and Speculation
=> Links and References Only
=> Natalee Breaking News Archive
General Discussions (2005 ARCHIVE)
=> News Issues
=> Chit Chat
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