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Comparing SEHS Admission Systems in Chicago, NYC, and Boston
November 22, 2014 at 10:08 am 98 comments
This interesting article in the Gotham Gazette compared the selective enrollment entry systems of NYC, Boston, and Chicago and the resulting racial balance of students within those schools.
Of the three, NYC SEHSs are the least racial balanced to population due to their one-score entry process. Chicago is considered the best balanced (only one to use the Tier system.) The article also points out that we have the most SE highs schools (and the highest % of students enrolled in SEHSs.) Boston has only 3 SEHSs and is pretty well balanced, despite the lack of using race/socio-economic status. Perhaps having fewer schools impacts this in some way?
About NYC:
The city admit students to their selective high schools via a one-test-score system. No Tiers, no grades, no standardized test. It all comes down to how well you do that one day on that one test.
This article points out: "Tweaking the exam is about all the power that the City can exercise over the admissions policy to its specialized high schools. The test-only mandate for entry has been enshrined in state law since 1972. De Blasio, though, spoke about altering the admissions process to these schools as a mayoral candidate and has followed up similarly since taking office. He has expressed a belief that a single multiple choice test can not adequately measure a young person's potential and a vision for more diverse student bodies at these elite schools."
We've discussed Stuyvesant HS in NYC before, which has a very high percentage of Asian students (something like 70%?!?). According to this chart, Asian students dominate the entire NYC selective high school system, comprising 60% of students vs. 15% of the population. Impressive! Conversely, Af-Am and Hispanic students are getting very few SEHS seats in NYC. I'd be curious to see how racial makeup would look in Chicago if we just used the one admission test.
The article has a very good/simple/accurate description of the progress of the admission system in Chicago. If you've ever wondered about that, check out the link.
Entry filed under: High school.
98 Comments Add your own
San Francisco also has a pretty wacky system whereby no one is guaranteed their closest school so they don't really have "neighborhood" schools. They cap the attendance at their "attendance area schools" so people are not even guaranteed their attendance area school if it is at capacity and are assigned to another school with openings.
As for NYC, there are some more 'holistic" aspects to the process, for instance at Hunter College, where they observe the kids in a school setting prior to selection. Also weird there is that they tell you the test they administer, but they disqualify you if there is evidence you prepped your child for the test. They also balance the class between boys and girls. http://www.hunterschools.org/es/procedures
Test results track IQs over populations. Of the populations described asians have the highest IQs, whites next, hispanics then african americans.
Want the highest IQ kids in the school? Do not take race and socioeconomic status into account. This is the NYC system.
To clarify my earlier post, I was thinking of the elementary grades where at least at Hunter they have a holistic component, but even their HS is exam only and entry for that is at 7th.
It is very interesting to see the comparisons between the cities. Thanks for posting, CPSO!
Cps: wikipedia article here. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence
No one knows why these differences exist. They just do. The fact of the differences is entirely scientifically uncontroversial. The cause of the differences? Very controversial.
IQ is not intelligence. A person can be intelligent and have an average IQ. And a high IQ person can be a fool. But these differences do exist over populations.
Interesting post and article CPSO.
CPS: the subject matter is touchy for political reasons. However the effect has been seen for ages and is about as certain of a thing as anything in psychiatry.
CPS: You can have whatever beliefs you want and trying to discuss this subject matter in this format will inevitably lead to misunderstandings and create hurt.
There are a host of studies out there. If you want to look them up, please do. Google scholar.
I just don't buy that socioeconomic status determines everything about your IQ. The Minnesota twin study, among others, implies that there is a strong genetic component. There may be a bit of chicken and egging going on there.
I think the article shows that Chicago has done a pretty good job balancing the wants of one group (just take the smartest kids) with the wants of the other (SEHS racial make-up should match the general CPS population.)
I found it interesting that New York had about the same number of students in SEHS despite having 3 times as many students overall. An indication that Chicago has figured out the balance between the number of SEHS and neighborhood high schools pretty well too.
There still seems to be this debate, with Chicago having larger numbers of SE opportunities, as to whether the SE seats take away from the neighborhood. As more neighborhood schools grow and develop academically it becomes more of an issue.
NY, for example, has truly select schools that might better fit the definition of "gifted" (term used loosely). In Chicago, it seems that all smart kids, elem & HS, want to be considered "gifted" so the system caters to that. We get the parental backlash, the alder-manic demands, racism accusations and Voila! a new SE school.
"In Chicago, it seems that all smart kids, elem & HS, want to be considered "gifted" so the system caters to that. We get the parental backlash, the alder-manic demands, racism accusations and Voila! a new SE school."
Well said. As I've said before here, if the NYC Specialized High School system was put in place here Chicago with the same acceptance to enrollment ratio, there would be no change in the number of tier 4 applicants who attend. Those who don't get in now, still would not get in.
NYC has many elite private schools, but the one my wife went to for HS over Stuyvesant now charges $41,900 per year. To be clear, kindergarten costs that much.
"score differently on an actual IQ test for socio reasons."
LOL, so a random poor asian kid will score the same as a random poor black kid? Plenty of the asian in NYC SEHS are at the low end of the socioeconomic scale. Nice try.
Are congrats in order for Chris Ball on the LP LSC election results? He is so charming and brilliant he had to be a shoe in.
I used to live in NYC before moving to Chicago and I would just like to say that race shouldn't ever be considered a point of whether you get into a school or not. No matter how you downplay it, when it's all done and said, using race as a factor is racism. It isn't about leveling the system or giving out equal opportunities, it's pure racism when you favor one race over another. I know it because I'm asian, and my family immigrated here 7 years ago. I went to a school in Flushing and most of my friends were either living in small apartments or crammed in with other relatives. We're not rich by any means and even now my family is still working hard to get by. My mom personally works a job cleaning hotel rooms and my dad works long hours at an restaurant. The place I used to live at was infested with bugs and I shared a small room with my siblings. Even now in Chicago, we're still not that much better off. The reason why there are so many asians at the top schools in NYC is because they worked hard to get that spot. Even just an hour everyday helps. I know some of my older friends got into Bronx Science because they worked on some prep books for about an hour or so each day, they didn't have the means to pay for any special tutoring or anything like that. Race doesn't play a part in how intellectual you are, it's the motivation that counts. If you take a poor asian kid and a poor african american kid that both worked hard to earn that top spot, then there shouldn't be any difference at all.
@15 HS Mom, You said, "There still seems to be this debate, with Chicago having larger numbers of SE opportunities, as to whether the SE seats take away from the neighborhood. As more neighborhood schools grow and develop academically it becomes more of an issue.
NY, for example, has truly select schools that might better fit the definition of "gifted" (term used loosely). In Chicago, it seems that all smart kids, elem & HS, want to be considered "gifted" so the system caters to that. We get the parental backlash, the alder-manic demands, racism accusations and Voila! a new SE school."
Yes, I agree. That is why I keep pushing for "gifted" programs in the neighborhood high schools. Parents and kids can still say they are "gifted" but we stop taking away from the neighborhood high schools. Stop adding more SE schools. In fact, maybe reduce them (don't kill me) in the areas where the neighborhood high schools have great potential. They are taking away from getting that suburban experience in the city.
The fact remains that CPS – as well as apparently Boston and NYC and probably elsewhere's public school systems are not good at developing talent in ALL children. Lots of bright but underprivileged kids arrive at Kindergarten where their potential is not fulfilled due to the presentation of multiple other barriers and they end up falling behind. I wish that CPS as a whole would look at that 85% free/reduced lunch subscription rate and -without lowering their academic standards and ideals develop curriculums that respond to the landscape of MOST kids entering kindergarten are underprepared and understanding that it is unlikely that the child's home environment is going to change significantly over the course of that child's CPS experience. I think this is done pretty well in the early grades in some schools- but around third grade, there is a shift and either you've made the grade or if you haven't educational expectations start to be lowered which ultimately is academically fatal….
The big difference is that IN NYC, there are decent non-selective enrollment high schools, some are acutally quite good, whereas in Chicago you have maybe one (Taft).
If admission based on one test score alone rewards kids who cram systematically for the test, I'm all for it. If a kid herself/himself is willing to study long and hard, that in itself shows that he/she is motivated enough to tackle difficult classes and do well in school. Effort is a big part of academic success. Unfortunately, that system then leads to overrepresentation of certain racial and economic classes, as reflected by the NYC data. So, it's a matter of whether a city wants a test-in high school system that truly serves only the brightest and most motivated students, or one that is diverse and reflective of the city's students in general. We've chosen the latter.
@27 There are more than one.
@27 – The reason why NYC has decent non-selective enrollment and we only have a few is because we have so many selective enrollment schools that take the "better" students away from the non-selective schools. Catch 22.
RE: NYC vs. Chicago
We've been down this discussion several times.
It's interesting that if somebody described how a minority group with the highest poverty rate in NYC (which is true of Asians there), made up of mostly first and second generation kids from extremely modest backgrounds, but nonetheless excelled enough to get into some of the best SE HS's by working hard and getting in fair and square, following the rules that generations of other kids have, etc., most people would normally be celebrating such a fact, etc., However, many have come to decry the results.
Styvesant and Bronx Science have enough low-income students to qualify for Title I funding, but since people don't like the KIND of low-income minority kids in those schools, there's now a "problem."
If an immigrant kid from Bangladesh or some rural part of China scored higher than my kid, my first thought isn't "Not fair! I don't like the way THOSE people are taking up more than their share of places. I think I'll file a lawsuit."
Now, of course all my kids have to do is study hard and try to use the same rules as those low-income minority kids that are getting high scores, but that would mean that I'd have to get all Tiger Mom on their a**es —cut back on TV watching, the XBOX, make them study harder, have to deal with whining, etc., so nah –|'ll just file a law suit because my kids are black and although we're relatively affluent, I want more kids like them to replace kids from the WRONG minority group that I think is taking up too many places. Since I don't like the percentages, it'd "discrimination" in one way or the other, so somebody better change things to make it easier for kids like mine and harder for other kids kids that are taking up too many spots at schools like Bronx Science and Styvesant..
Yet, that's what I see and hear, directly or indirectly when people bring up SE HS's in NYC..
There are unintended consequences to social engineering, especially when there are finite numbers of spaces at a SE school. If you take away to give to another, you're not doing something without hurting somebody else negatively.
It was filed in 2012 and apparently the Education Department is still "investigating."
Also, the new(ish) mayor has publicly said that he wants to change the SE admissions for NYC because he doesn't like the racial makeup at schools like Styvesant, Brooklyn Tech, and Bronx Science.
One can Google it and there are a plethera of articles, essays and opinion pieces (pro- and anti- current test-only system) about it. That's where i got the stats about poverty, the low-income status of most Asian kids at these schools, the fact that most are 1st or 2nd generation, etc. (those are facts that people needs to consider, IMO).
@33 It is a civil rights complaint, not a lawsuit per se. See http://www.naacpldf.org/case-issue/new-york-city-specialized-high-school-complaint
There is a legitimate question over its predictive validity — that is, does the test actually select the people who are likely to perform well at the SHS. The same question can be asked about Chicago's SEHS. The NY test scoring also is done such that a person with a high score in either verbal or math but a middle score in the the other is more likely to gain admission than person who has high scores in both but not as high as the hi-lo person's high score. For some of these technical issues, see the material in the appendices to the complaint, particularly the Feinman paper.
The test in NYC were introduced before WWII and were intended to avoid bias, especially against new immigrants (then). NY State legislated test-only admissions in 1971 after a push to allow principals to recommend students rather than use the admission test. African-American shares of enrollment has declined over time, so it is not that A-A students never held greater shares, but that they did and these numbers have diminished at the same time that the federal government focused on narrowing the black-white achievement gap.
I'm not sure I agree with you re: the Specialized High School Admissions Test's validity. On some level, to me it seems the most objective way to admit students, since it's the same test for all kids, rich, poor, black, white, Asian, immigrant, non-immigrant, etc.
We're not talking admissions at a liveral arts college, here, but a public school that is "selevtive."
I've read the background info, too. The situation comes up periodically and there are the usual NYT Education Section stories, editorials, etc.
I don't like the fact that so few black and Hispanic kids are doing well enough to be admitted to those schools, believe me. However, i think the answer is address the achievement gap and get them there, not come up with a mechanism that will take away opportunities from low-income Asian kids from Jackson Heights.
Just because you may not like the results of the SHSAT because too many Asian kids are apparently doing too well and not enough non-Asian minority kids scoire high enough, I don't think it mean that it's not a "legitimate" test.
The basis of the complaint is that a single-test policy is racially discriminatory. And yes, I've read it. I'm assuming since the Education Department has not yet made a finding, there's not some glaring discriminatory basis, either. Different outcome by group does not mean automatically mean "discrimination," which is the only basis for which the Education Department could intervene.
Are my kids intellectually inferior because they're black or something? Shouldn't they be expected to do the same thing as low-income and working-class minority kids from the immigrant group with highest poverty rate in NYC and take the same test and be judged equally?
I know that's NOT NOT NOT what you're in any way suggesting, but still the idea that just because an achievement test doesn't have the same results accross all races, I don't see how that test is ipso facto discriminatory or in any way "illegitimate."
As I said, there are quite a few articles and essays about the SHSAT and there are many, if not most, commentators and legal experts and opinions that conclude that while it's lamentable that so many kids that are black and Hispanic aren't scoring higher, a single, objective test that measures academic achievement (not knowledge about culture) in relevant areas (math, science, language arts) that are the basis of academic success is likely the most non-discriminatory and fair to all students, in terms of figuring out how to admit students.
Also, I will say again, do you want to take away opportunities from more low-income Asian kids and give them to whom? Who gets to decide this? What test or selection process do you believe would be more "legitimate?"
If I were a recent immigrant from Bangladesh or Vietnam working long hours for minimum wage, I'd have a really hard time understanfing how my son or daughter doing well on an achievement test for which they worked very, very hard in preparation work and which is the same one everybody else takes is suddenly "discriminatory" or not "valid." Why? Because you don't think kis from Bangladesh and Vietman are as deserving as the same opportunities as other kids?
Who gets to decide if it's valid? Discriminatory again whom? Black kids or white kids, too (since their numbers have also plummeted). If immigrant kids from Nigeria and Ghana were rocking the test and shoving out lower-scoring white kids, would that be "discriminatory" or somehow indicative of a test that's not "valid?"
I know i'm kinda' going off the deep end here, but I honestly don't get the arguments about fairness and validity here, especially in light of the fact that most of the kids that are doing the best on the test are ones that are minorites from low-income, recent immigrant families (the poorest group in the city, in fact) where the parents are non-native English speakers and are far, far removed from anything but the lowest rungs the power structure.
If the test were so "invalid," how could so many kids like that do so well?
I wonder if in NY they used grades and the admissions tests would the results be the same? Supposedly, many colleges aren't looking to the ACT score for successful outcomes. Now, they are saying grades are a better predictor of who will be more successful in college! Just food for thought…
Also, what about children who have test anxiety, especially when it comes down to ONE test that you NEED to score well on to be admitted to a stellar school. If there aren't any OTHER factors considered then I guess you are out of luck 😦
While I'm naturally inclined toward "pure merit" based policies, as most of the discussion has trended that way above, I'd like to push back a little bit for the sake of discussion.
A city is trying to distribute a scare resource among its residents, that is an above average education.
It's not necessarily racist or unfair for those residents to want that resource to be relatively evenly distributed among its population.
All votes count equally after all. If you didn't want to use race and an income-based system was offering up skewed results you could just use some sort of block-by-block quota system to achieve the same effect.
And while I empathize that it may be frustrating for low-income Asians to be held to a higher standard by their ultra-competitive peer group, I'm not necessarily convinced that the rest of the population need be required to bestow outsize benefits and resources to that group at the expense of all others because it is a naturally studious / hard working cohort (or otherwise be deemed racist).
"Boston has only 3 SEHSs and is pretty well balanced, despite the lack of using race/socio-economic status. Perhaps having fewer schools impacts this in some way?"
Having fewer schools, but a *much* higher percentage attending them would have an effect related to "fewer" … how?
CPS would have to almost triple the SEHS enrollment to match Boston's %age.
CPSO: "I wonder what the private options are in nyc?"
See, here, for some interesting data:
@36 The predictive validity issue, which Feinman discusses in more detail, is this: Do SHSAT scores predict how well students do at the NYC SHS? For example, if, among admitted students, those with lower scores do better than those with higher scores once admitted, the predictive validity of the test is not very good. It raises the question of whether students with lower scores who were not admitted would also have done better than some who were admitted. According to Feinman, the SHSAT's predictive validity has never been studied. Pearson does not issue a technical manual for the SHSAT, so we know very little about its properties or even its construction. At issue is whether the SHSAT is in fact measuring the "best" students for the school.
Much of the racial or gender bias that commercial test-makers guard against is not the "squash:racket as cricket:_____". Bias review panels catch that stuff. What is a problem are test items that have no obvious bias but produce different results for boys v. girls or whites v. blacks, even though the students both get other seemingly similar questions right. No one knows why this occurs — they have theories but no decisive experiment has been done to test them. Biased questions of this nature do appear on some standardized tests (though rarely severely biased ones). Because Pearson does release a technical manual for the ISAT, we know that it uses several biased items in almost every grade — and sometimes more than 10 items. They don't have enough other questions to use. (See Table 1.2, p.12 of the most recent manual)
Validity studies could very well show that there is no bias, and that the displacement of all groups by Asian-Americans is in fact due to the singular focus on gaining admission among a high portion of Asian students and their families.
@37 The trouble with grades for admission purposes, especially HS admission purposes, is that we would not expect much variation in grades.Most of these children would have A's in core subjects. Admission tests are designed to discriminate, in the positive sense, more finely among the candidates. The risk is that in doing so, they also discriminate, in the pejorative sense, as well, like with the types of items mentioned above.
It is not clear that grades would help reduce the low-acceptance rates of concern in NYC. Unlike Chicago, any child can sit for the SHSAT. There are no pre-requisites. If a child got a B in one subject because of a teacher's bias, then grades would only serve to reduce his or her enrollment chances, not enhance them. Even if the public schools systematically regulate grading, there is no way to do this for private school students seeking a slot.
It is true that GPA better predicts 1st-year college performance than most admission tests, like the SAT or ACT do, but that is for HS students, who in many case are pursuing a more diverse range of classes. Middle school students are usually taking mostly the same classes.
I'll just add some perspective here because its not something I usually see out there. My parents as I have said earlier are immigrants, and because of that they didn't speak English very well at all. Ever since I was maybe 5 I had to translate stuff for them and I still do. We've had all sorts of trouble at stores and when filling out government forms, and even when they tried speaking English they had accents that people thought were funny and so they weren't taken very seriously. Naturally this meant that I didn't have what other kids usually had, parent support when doing stuff like homework. There was no way that they could help me with my school stuff when they didn't even understand it in the first place. This had at times I admit made me frustrated and embarrassed, not to mention envious of other kids who had parents who could at least be understood (a.k.a Hispanics, or African Americans). In the way that I used to look at it, they were better off than I was because a lot of their parents were would you say more "involved" in their kids' education? They could talk to their teachers at parent conferences and were more involved with the school than say mine. Just a personal voice to the people who say that we have a better family background or anything along those lines.
I think the reason why there aren't many hispanics or african americans at the specialized schools in NY is that the majority of them either one, don't understand the importance of the test or did not know about it until the start of eighth grade, or two, they just don't really care about school in general. I remember the atmosphere being more like "it would be nice if I got in, but if I don't oh well". Like they kinda wanted it but not like really really wanted it. Let's just say they didn't want it more than they wanted to play and have fun. Others wanted to stay with their friends or be that cool kid and goof around in class. The issue as many others reportedly stated isn't the test or method itself. Changing the way you get into these schools isn't going to suddenly make magic appear and fix everything. It's the root of the issue that needs to be addressed, and thats to get kids interested in school. You can take the easy way out now by trying to change the admission in order to fix "racial discrimination" or you could take the time to fix the way material is being taught to the kids and over time the schools demographics can change.
What I've noticed in Chicago is that the "SEHS" are really some of the only "good" schools in the city. NY has good schools that are not specialized and considered neighborhood (though a few are still selective by like GPA and teacher reco.) and so that makes the specialized HS in NYC well, a little bit more what they are. Specialized. They're for the people who want to be the best out there. It isn't about having equal racial representation or anything like that (but that would be nice, its just that changing the test isn't the correct way to achieve it), it's about offering the best opportunities to people who really want them, often in the subject the school best specializes in. You don't have to study like a maniac to do well and you can play your XBOX or Playstation whenever you'll like. You just have to know what are the appropriate times to do what.
While I understand the spirit of your statement, how is it OK to create a discriminatory system for one minority group when,,if you did the same for another, it would be an example of glaringly discriminatory behavior on the part of a public institution that would be ripe for immediate legal and social intervention –and one that would never, ever be tolerated?
So, we should limit opportunities for high-achieving minority students if they're the "wrong kind" of minority? Why? What moral or (more importantly) legal basis is there for a govermental body to purposely do so in K-12 education, when differentiating in or assigning enrollment in a public school K-12 school using race or ethnicity is blatently unconstitutional/illegal per the U. S. Supreme Court?
So, we should reduce individuals to their racial and ethnic background (I always thought that's what prejudiced people do, but maybe that's juat me) for purposes of public education enrollment at a selective enrollment school, not merit (?), and then assign opportunities in publicly-funded schools in an accordingly discriminatory fashion (against the poorest minority goup in NYC, no less) because it more "fair"? How? For whom?
And I say this as the parent of black kids. On one level, I'd love for my kids to have it easier to get into a SEHS, because, well, I want them to have opportunities and do well in life and if somebody's going to give it to them, for whatever legally permissible reason, why not –I'm not strupid. But if they get a space handed to them from a kid with hgher scores , whose place are they taking? A less "deserving" kid? Who gets to decide that and why?
It's absurd to think that my kids (middle or even upper-middle-class by many/most peoples' definition) should have an easier time getting into a public SE HS over a low-income kid living in a dump in Chinatown or Jackson Heights and with parents that are in no way fluent in English and confined to go-nowhere jobs at the bottom of the economic ladder. So these kinds of Asian kids should have to have "limitations" to their educational opportunities, since they're part of a geography-based immigrant group that's TOO damn successful, statistically-speaking? They need to move aside and make way for my upper-middle-class kids with lower scores because, well, mine are the RIGHT kind of racial group? How is that OK? Who gets to decide which is the "right" kind and the "wring" kind? It wasn't all that long ago in Amercan history that my kids were the "wrong" kind, so maybe I'm a little sensitive. Who could blame Asian parents if suddenly NYC decide that their kids are now too often the "wrong kind?"
Sorry for the diatribe.
@44 I think you misunderstand my point. All I'm really trying to say is, why should this system be purely merit based at all? Obviously you need to demonstrate academic competence and that you're not going to waste the opportunity, but why not share equally among all qualified applicants? What about a race and income blind random lottery for all students who apply and meet some minimum testing standard, say 75th or 90th percentile?
Is the teaching / peer environment at these schools worth anything? Or are we merely grouping those with the most innate ability / work ethic together?
Should the benefits of a Selective Enrollment education be based purely on merit? And specifically go to the "most elite" students? Or should the benefactors of the system look more like a sample of the overall applicant base?
If my subgroup is paying into a system more than it is receiving (even if that is based on the meritocratic efforts of others), am I better off leaving to find another group entirely (aka move to the 'burbs)? Am I racist for thinking so?
I don't have an ax to grind here, but I think to point to NYC's system and say that it's the only "true" system or that any system that incorporates race is by definition "racist" is a bit hyperbolic.
The University of Texas is required to admit top performers from all Texas High Schools, and many other Universities would look favorably on applicants from far flung states in the name of geographic diversity. Is that unfairly holding down the masses from the more conventional / high achieving locales? You'll find supporters on both sides of that debate.
The thing is, legally, K-12 public education is proscribed from using race or ethnicity (which is why CPS's legally race-neutral Tiers are designed not around income [as people are often complaining when their modest-income bungalow-belt neighborhood is Tier 4], but census-based characteristics that are more likely to be attached to particular groups, in order to increase diversity.
The NYC HS's in question have always been been based strictly on merit, admissions-wise. But, people want to change it now, why? The current enrollment is made up disproportionately of LOW-INCOME 1st and 2nd generation Asian kids. 70 years ago it was working-class Jewish kids that were 1st or 2nd generation immigrants from Eastern Europe. When kids like that were rocking it academically,getting high SATs, etc., Ivy League schools realized that the freshman classes were becoming "too Jewish," so direcly or indirectly (to make room for more 'well rounded' [i.e., not Jewish] students) there were limits put on Jewish enrollment.
The fact is, colleges still have lots of legal room to create "diverse" freshman class, but K-12 public schools DO NOT have the same legal discretion to base admissions around competetion within one's own racial group, rather than within the overall applicant pool —that's a big, big difference.
Currently in NYC, it's not upper-middle-class and upper class kids from the the Upper East Side and rich kids living in mansionesque brownstones in Brooklyn Heights that are benefitting from the current admissions, but low-income ones that work very, very hard in school. How is that a "problem." So, we need to put limits on them, like Ivy League schools did in the past –it's OK because it's to create a more "well-rounded" student base?
Yes, everybody pays taxes. But all students already have equal opportunities to get into the NYC SEHS's –they just have to get high scores, which of course, is not easy. What they want or even can do to get the scores is up to them and their families and, yes, sometimes it's not. Yes, it sucks when kids have parents that don't care about school and kids go to schools that are lousy, academically –but it's forever been that way. If we use race to guestimate chances in life, we'll have to reduce individuasl to a cultureal stereotype that in any other situation would be considered "racial profiling" or worse.
Equal opportunity does not mean equal results.
An if NYC started considering a race-neutral input like family income as a factor, the same SEHSs that are now considered "too Asian" would possible become even more so, since Asians have the highest poverty rate of any group in NYC.
I said this before, but can anybody imagine a situation where low-income immigrant kids from Ghana, Nigeria and the West Indies were rocking the SHSAT and filling up freshman class enrollment like crazy, relative to their overall numbers. (Can anybody imagine discussions about what these black kidss have done to the "atmosphere" of these schools and how much worse it is now, etc., like I have with read and heard about Asian kids?) That fact would be celebrated and civil rights groups would intervene if a decades-old admissions process were suddenly changed because too many low-income black kids like that were taking spots at what are perceived to be the "Best" public high schools — this even when they scored the highest on the same entrance exams that have been used for generations ffor admissions and they got there fair and square. But now there are "too many" of them, so we'll for the FIRST TIME EVER now change chage how admissions is done to lower their overall numbers.
That would never, ever happen (and for good reason, obviously).
But with low-income Asian kids, it's somehow acceptable to deride their success as some kind of anti-egaliarian, nerd-based glitch in an antiquated admissions system that hasn't changed with the times, creating an imagination and creativity-free atmosphere that's negative.
Again, as i'm always and forever saying, I'm as upset as anybody over the lower number of black and Hispanic kids getting into these kinds of schools. But, it's because they're not scoring high enough on the entrance exam, not because of some nefarious system set up to limit their opportunities.
So, OK, if we get more kids with the "right" racial backgrounds into Brooklyn Tech and Bronx Science that would be great –but we need to get them there by having them achieve their way in, not suddenly using a system designed to take away opportunity from higher-scoring low-income kids 1st and 2nd generation kids from the "wrong" part of the world to make way for more middle and upper-middle-class (because those are the kinds of kids that would like benefit the most) kids from the "right" group?
I'm sorry, but i still see all kinds of moral and (most relevant) legal issues when doing so.
In K-12 public educatiion, when we give opportunities not by what kids have achieved and done, but by how they look or describe themselves ethnically, we're going to have issues, including legal ones, given current law. When we suddenly change an admissions policy to lower the number of kids (i.e., target them directly or indirectly with a new policy purposely designed to lower their numbers) from certain minority groups, that will also be an issue, legally. And for me, a moral one, too.
Maybe it's just me, but when I look at all the stats about the low-income Asian immigrant kids doing so well, I'm impressed and feel like we need to examine what they're doing to be so successful. I mean –Good for them! They're achieving and getting admitted to SEHS's through hard work and by following the rules that have been giving immigrant and other low-income and working-class kids an opportunity for a great education that their parents could not otherwise ever afford (with private NYC schools like Dalton, Spence and Trinity costing $40k+).
Why is this such a "problem" and where does all the questions about "atmosphere" and "climate" at these schools come from? Would the same people asking these questions be asking about the the "negative" atmosphere and climate at a SEHS where most of the kids are black and/or Hispanic? No –because that would obviously be wrong. So, what's wrong with Asian kids that makes their presence "negative" to a school's social and academic climate, so much in fact that something needs to be done to limit their opportunites in order to create schools with fewer of them being allowed to enroll.
@45 It may be that it does not predict well, and they don't want to call attention to it. The reason Pearson and other commercial test-makers don't issues technical manuals (NWEA does not make their manual available to the public either) is that the flaws and limits will be clear.
@46 "many other Universities would look favorably on applicants from far flung states in the name of geographic diversity"
They also look favorably on the fact that out of state and foreign tuition is much higher than in-state. If in this quest they happen to get a little "geographic diversity", it's only a marketable byproduct.
"Is that unfairly holding down the masses from the more conventional / high achieving locales? You'll find supporters on both sides of that debate."
At any given college you will find kids from close to 50 states. There's a trade off between states as more and more kids apply and find opportunity out of their home state. The debate is really centered on foreign students. Is it ethical to provide an education at some of the most selective colleges in the US to the highest paying wealthy foreigners when they are likely to just take that knowledge back to their own country – in lieu of giving a lower paying US student an opportunity.
This debate is very different from a high school admissions policy based upon scores or socioeconomics.
@53 Actually I was in your shoes and many times. I remember my first "test/contest" outside of my neighborhood school. At that time kids of my ethnicity (perceived as "rural" and "less educated") took tests in a separate room because of different language. I still remember the face of the science teacher who was a proctor. He said to us "a winner is always from the other ethnicity group, please do your best! I really wish it will be different this time".
Over time, I turned my "minority" label into a strength. When people don't expect you to perform well, there is actually no pressure. What can you lose if nobody expects you to win? Nothing, right? I have no choice as to work harder than others and it helped me to overcome a lot of hurtles. Luckily, there were no tiers or quotas (purely merit bases) and when somebody won or got into SE school, everyone knew that she earned it and not just free rode on her minority.
I'm a bit surprise why so many people seriously focus on test validity, race mix, etc and don't really notice the big pink elephant that some parents just don't value education. If Asians perform better, then maybe we all need to learn something from them rather than "punish" them for hard work? Don't you think?
@pantherettie can you please give me the link to the article you mentioned? Sorry, I can't find it.
I was in some pretty harsh 1-to-many situations. Although I saw a lot of my friends and classmates being in such situations too with all related social issues including bulling. It could be ethnicity, race, hair color, height, weight, neighborhood, parents word/origin, accent, character traits, social status, gender, sport, disabilities, etc. What I noticed that no matter what the reason was, it always led (if it led) to the same/similar social issues. Do you think race is somehow different from all other reasons? I believe all schools should pay more attention to all those social issues and help/guide kids. When I was a kid, all those "issues" everyone solved on his/her own with a different degree of success and schools pretended that nothing happened.
I've found this article about NYC SEHS: http://www.examiner.com/article/bill-to-change-nyc-specialized-high-schools-admission-sent-to-state-legislature
In every company, there will always be some downsides.
What does this growing trend represent to the average person,
and how does it relate to the current state of the economy.
What is fascinating is that their shakes actually works and delivers some wonderful results.
The Atlantic just published an article covering this exact same topic. Nothing really new that I saw, but a good overall read.
"look into why Asians are doing better and follow the suit."
On a personal level: No thanks. I have known many of the "doing better" "Asians" through my life, and that is not what I want for me or for my kids.
On a societal level, perhaps, but I don't know what we could do to achieve a more (eg) "Korean" (or Finnish or whatever) educational system, when there is a world-class freakout on-going about the concept of having national standards (*yes* I do realize that the complaining about CC *here* is not that, but nationally, much of it is).
@62 "On a personal level: No thanks. I have known many of the "doing better" "Asians" through my life, and that is not what I want for me or for my kids."
I'm not an Asian but if poor Asians in NYC can achieve high academic advantage, then I don't see any reason not to learn something (not everything) from them. Extra practice 1h a day doesn't sound terrible to me.
[…] CPS Application Deadline for Magnets, Top High Schools Looms Friday DNA Info:Parents seeking to get their children into kindergarten in a magnet school or into a gifted program in the fall, as well as eighth-graders applying to one of the city's 11 selective-enrollment high schools, all face a deadline of 11:59 p.m. Friday to get in their applications. Selective-enrollment elementary schools and high-school military and International Baccalaureate programs also have the same deadline. See also CPS Obsessed. […]
@65″The problem is really not lack of resource, funding, or poverty, it's the years of influence from their parents. "
AAs and Hispanics have a completely different history/experience in this country than do Asians, and this should not be discounted.
Lack of resources, funding, poverty, and low societal expectations of what these races deserve and are capable of (going back HUNDREDS OF YEARS) have certainly shaped any cultural differences Hispanic and AA parental expectations have regarding academic achevement of their children.
Don't oversimplify. WHY are there different parental expectations/demands? How has the history of AAs and Hispanics in this country typically resulted in low parental expectations? Is Asian culture just inherently superior in this way? Doubt it.
BTW, Asian students tend to outperform in math and science. There are other fields of study….
If you don't mind, please mention some fields of study in which Asians tend to under-perform, compared to AAs and Hispanics. I suppose you were talking about academic fields, so the intensive athletic or performative use of one's own body wouldn't count — unless you disagree.
There is little if any scientific consensus about Asians being innately good at math/science. The habitual characterization of Asians being good at math/science is more a lazy, irresponsible, and self-comforting excuse for any other ethnicity to not make its youngsters work hard on academics.
@72 I think that your anecdote is spot on. Whatever our children are spending time on is where they will excel. And to extend on that idea, it's easier for us to focus their energies when their friends are doing the same thing.
On this blog, parents are looking for ways to get their children into the best possible elementary and high schools. What we really want is to find a school community that will support our educational values. Whether we want our kids to perform academically at the highest level or participate in sports or the arts, it's a lot easier as a parent to enforce those standards when our child's classmates are receiving the same message at home.
From my experience, when assessing elementary schools, parents should not focus on the kindergarten but should ask where last year's 8th graders are going to high school. When assessing high schools, we need to know where last year's seniors are going to college. Unfortunately, the SEHSs all print long lists of colleges and universities where their alumni have been accepted. But these lists are an accumulation over years and years. To be useful information, I want to know how it went LAST YEAR.
I found an interesting article about diversity in NYC schools. http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20141211/fort-greene/city-is-failing-improve-school-diversity-parents-advocates-say
I found it interesting that a school is considered "diverse" when it has a majority of black students? And now it's suddenly not diverse because the new majority is comprised of white students? Now, I would love for NYC to have more diverse schools but shouldn't that mean about near equal amounts of each race in one school? And the whole discrimination thing about the high school system. We all know that if the majority of the students in those specialized schools were black or hispanic, then nobody would ever call it unjust and unfair and discriminating would they? Instead I bet they would receive numerous praises from all around. And yet, it is now considered discrimination when Asians are the top majority in these schools? I don't know about you but the whole "discrimination" argument seems like discrimination to me. I live on the South Side on Chicago and while I know a lot of hard working parents who encourage their kids, I have seen an equally amount of parents who just don't care. They let their kids do whatever they want and don't really steer them into the right direction. What we need in education reform isn't to change the system, but to change the mindsets and environments that families live in. More dedicated parents would encourage their kids to try their best rather than slack off, which would then earn them spots in top high schools and colleges.
Happy holidays, folks. Love this board, but this thread is particularly tiring for me. I feel like I've gone back in time to the 1980s. I know people like to rehearse the "Asian success" riff ad nauseam in this culture, in a way that inevitably seems to turn into moral hectoring of Black students and/or parents (whether intentional or not). But consider the following three scholarly works relevant to this thread which challenge this narrative and "frame."
1) First up, check out Claude Steele, social psychologist at Stanford, who sought to explain the achievement gap through his studies and concluded African American students often under-perform on perceived high-stakes tests due to "stereotype threat." See,
2) Second up, evolving out of Steele's work, check out the flip-side by University of California sociologists Jennifer Lee (Irvine) and Min Zhou (Los Angeles) for their work on "stereotype promise" that suggests Asian American students are buffered by positive reinforcement to help explain their academic success in their forthcoming 2015 book, Asian American Achievement Paradox.
In an interview with Lee, she states, "I bridge the research in culture and social psychology in a useful way to provide the flip-side explanation; I illustrate how the success frame is validated and reinscribed in institutional contexts, such as schools, by those who presume that Asians are smart, disciplined, and high-achieving. While Claude Steele and his colleagues have found that African American students can suffer from "stereotype threat" (which depresses performance), I find that Asian American students can benefit from what I call a "stereotype promise"—the promise of being viewed through the lens of a positive stereotype, which can boost performance. These social psychological processes can result in what sociologist Robert K. Merton coined a "self-fulfilling prophecy". Consequently, Asian American students—regardless of ethnicity, class, gender, and generational status—gain an advantage over their non-Asian peers in gateway institutions like schools.
For a discussion of Lee & Zhou's work, see,
3) Well, this post is far longer than I intended, so I'll stop at two for now.
I know we come to the board because maybe we are all armchair sociologists (guilty as charged!). But can we please put to bed the barely warmed over "model minority" narratives from 1980's and beyond? NYC's elite system in unconscionable for its disparate impact on Black and Latino students, and I welcome the NAACP's/PRLDEF's actions. I am so glad Chicago Public Schools, for all its warts, did not go that route.
@74 Finding an elementary school with a culture that makes kids like school and learning, beginning in Kindergarten, is critical to their future, HS and beyond. I wouldn't discount the importance of good early childhood education. Incidentally, Matt Damon's mother is an education professor and she thinks, "Naming the letter B and saying it goes "buh" is not really relevant to what good education is. It's good to know; it's not that you shouldn't know any letters. It's just that building an understanding of literacy is much, much more than that. There's a tremendous relationship between oral language and reading, so good early childhood education involves creating experiences that are going to foster social interaction and fantasy play. … What we're seeing instead is a lot of little kids sitting in chairs getting drilled on the letter B.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/getting-there-nancy-carlsson-paige-dark-time-for-education-113392.html#ixzz3MQ4ygLyV
@otdad – by calling the NAACP a 'racist organization' you've pretty much negated, at least in my mind, any possibility that you're willing to have a discussion about anything regarding race that is not based on an extremely narrow view of the world. I can understand disagreeing with the positions that the NAACP takes on a variety of issues. I can also hear the perspective that the NAACP is 'out of date' when I comes to the methods it deploys to call attention to problems. But I can tell you one thing for sure – if it wasn't for the NAACP my kid wouldn't have the option to go to an 'integrated' SEES or an 'integrated' SEHS. All of our kids have benefited from the legal challenges the NAACP raised in regards to education reform. l know that a lot of people let things slide on the Internet and look the other way but I'm going to call bull on your last comment otdad calling the NAACP a racist organization. Anyone who cares enough to obsess about their kid's (or all kids') education should have a better grasp on the history – at least education policy wise – on the organization.
@pantherettie – Out of curiosity… what do you thing about the race diversity of NBA? Should we as society to be concerned about it? If yes, would it be fair, let's say, to assign different points depending on a player's race and ethnicity? We can call it "tier" or any other neutral word. It sounds like a good idea if our ultimate goal is to get "better" race diversity… Well, it would punish hard-working AA players but is it the same what NAACP wants to do with hard-working Asian students in NYC SEHS?
Question back to walker "out of curiosity": Do you believe NBA teams who draft players are using criteria that are both unrelated to the job and disadvantageous to some non-Black group? Not every under-representation is concerning to a fair-minded society. Your question presumes a false equivalency between the NBA and New York's entrance exam-only high school admissions system re: the definition of merit and its relationship to the "job" in question.
NYC's entrance-exam only testing is a big opaque box of unknowns that HAS NEVER BEEN VALIDATED AS PERFORMANCE- OR MERIT-BASED AND has an extremely racially disproportionate result. There is a reason the federal Department of Education Office of Civil Rights has launched an investigation into this set of practices that produces a result of admitting only 5% African American and 7% Latino students at the three most competitive specialized high schools in NYC. As the NAACP lawsuit states, "federal law prohibits admissions policies that inappropriately utilize scores on tests, like the SHSAT, that have not been properly validated as a fair predictor of student performance. In the absence of any attempt by the NYCDOE [New York City Department of Education] to validate the SHSAT and because there are equally effective, less discriminatory alternatives available, the NYCDOE should not be permitted to use the SHSAT as the sole criterion…." for admission to a Specialized High School."
Those sticking up for this extremely narrow admissions scheme (one high-stakes entrance exam as the SOLE CRITERION) that has a known disparate impact on African American and Latino children, are you moved to sue Chicago Public Schools for its broader set of criteria (grades, 7th grade standardized tests, and entrance exam) used to admit a much more diverse group of students to our SEHS schools? If not, why not? Using your own analogy, walker, are you so confident in your analogy that you are prepared to sue (or would support suing) the NBA for its set of hiring practices that you presumably believe are using criteria unrelated to playing basketball that have a disproportionate impact upon a protected group? And if that protected group is the class of white players who might otherwise be playing in the NBA were it not for these allegedly discriminatory practices, are you able to show that the NBA is composed of owners and employers who represent that unique category of the unusual employer who discriminates against members of the majority group–i.e. whites?
"this extremely narrow admissions scheme (one high-stakes entrance exam as the SOLE CRITERION) that has a known disparate impact on African American and Latino children"
Really? On what bases can any race or ethnicity claim that it deserves a demographically proportionate share in a few purely merit-based and scholastically-oriented schools within a giant school system?
Whether one wants to or is able to win a race-centric litigation depends very much on politics; more precisely, various social groups' capabilities to disrupt the society's normal functioning, i.e., the status quo. Some people may have such a capability but choose not to use it because they can gain little from the disruption. Some people don't mind disrupting the society, but their capabilities/causes may very well turn out to be inadequate in litigations. Could the civil rights movement have been successful without winning a fundamental moral argument outside courtrooms and fostering sympathy in the general population?
"this extremely narrow admissions scheme (one high-stakes entrance exam as the SOLE CRITERION) that has a known disparate impact on African American and Latino children"
Really? On what bases can any race or ethnicity claim that it deserves a demographically proportionate share in a few purely merit-based and scholastically-oriented schools within a giant school system?
@83: First, setting aside your "straw man" argument above re: "demographically proportionate share" (an argument, standing alone, that was not made in my post #82 that you quoted), note that it is federal civil rights law that provides the basis to prohibit the deployment of arbitrary criteria that bears no relation to performance and lacks substantial legitimate justification for its use where it imposes a disproportionate impact upon a protected group.
Second, you are assuming facts not in evidence when you describe the NY SHSAT as a "purely merit-based" test. The fact that NYDOE has NEVER validated the SHSAT seriously undercuts any such contention. Surely, the foibles of various testing instruments, be it ISAT, PARCC, Common Core, etc. discussed in detail on this board reveal the fallacy of meritocracy when it comes to such blunt instruments, esp. when used for high-stakes admissions decisions.
In case you are unfamiliar with some of the particulars of Title VI (which also draws upon employment discrimination statutes under Title VII), see generally,
Sec. VIII.B. What Constitutes Discriminatory Conduct: Disparate Impact/Effects
The second primary theory for proving a Title VI violation is based on Title VI regulations and is known as the discriminatory "effects" or disparate impact theory. . . .
Under the disparate impact theory, a recipient, in violation of agency regulations, uses a neutral procedure or practice that has a disparate impact on protected individuals, and such practice lacks a substantial legitimate justification. The elements of a Title VI disparate impact claim derive from the analysis of cases decided under Title VII disparate impact law. New York Urban League, 71 F.3d at 1036.
. . .
To establish discrimination under a disparate impact scheme, the investigating agency must first ascertain whether the recipient utilized a facially neutral practice that had a disproportionate impact on a group protected by Title VI. (42) Larry P. v. Riles, 793 F.2d 969, 982; Elston, 997 F.2d at 1407 (citing Georgia State Conference of Branches of NAACP v. Georgia, 775 F.2d 1403, 1417 (11th Cir. 1985)). The agency must show a causal connection between the facially neutral policy and the disproportionate and adverse impact on a protected Title VI group.
. . .
In evaluating a potential disparate impact claim under Title VI, it is important to examine whether there is a substantial legitimate justification for the challenged practice and whether there exists an alternative practice that is comparably effective with less of a disparate impact.
. . .
" setting aside your "straw man" argument above re: "demographically proportionate share" (an argument, standing alone, that was not made in my post #82 that you quoted) "
Without a tacit assumption of statistically proportionate shares, how could any "protected group" be considered disproportionately impacted in a given situation, whether adversely or not? For public education or a popular national pursuit (e.g., the NBA), the statistics is pretty much demographics. Single-digit percentages of African-American and Latino students in the few NYC schools would probably have been a non-issue, if the city's demographic composition had not been taken into account by those who disapprove the admission practice there.
@SoLoMo – Inverse examples like NBA are good to test the true intention: whether it's indeed race diversity or a "hidden" push in favor of only some race groups.
@SoLoMo "Those sticking up for this extremely narrow admissions scheme (one high-stakes entrance exam as the SOLE CRITERION) that has a known disparate impact on African American and Latino children, are you moved to sue Chicago Public Schools for its broader set of criteria (grades, 7th grade standardized tests, and entrance exam) used to admit a much more diverse group of students to our SEHS schools?"
If you don't know, there are also the tier-system that does all "magic". Yes, it's more race diverse (not the same as "diverse") in expense of academic proficiency. You can find a lot of long arguments on how wealth is a direct effect of education… Unfortunately for tier-system proponents poor Asians in NYC seriously undermine that causality.
You might be surprised by how relatively easy someone can test math proficiency in a single test. It's whether a student knows how to solve 2+2 ( or x^2 + x + 1 = 0 etc) or not. I can't even think of any possible example of how math can discriminate by race….. well…. if NYC SEHS test were written in an Asian language….but it's too extreme.
At the same time, nothing is perfect. Mixing NWEA and SEHS test is a smart idea… maybe allowing students to take the test up to 2-3 times and use the highest score would be reasonable too… making some sample tests available for public couldn't hurt.
@85: Your speculation about how disparate impact is necessarily based upon a "tacit assumption of statistically proportionate shares" is just that–sheer speculation and assumption. The NAACP's complaint currently pursued by federal investigators identifies the disparate impact by establishing the protected groups (here, African American and Latinos) as having significantly lower offer rates to specialized high schools than the highest scoring group (here, Asian Americans) based on non-meritorious, untested screening devices. Thus, the NAACP's complaint is not based on "pretty much demographics" as you claim without support through your straw argument-type allusions to the operation of quotas. The allegedly neutral device is the SHSAT. Its use is illegal if there is a) adverse impact (established by the significantly lower offer rates); and either b) inability of the user (here, NY state and NYC specialized schools) to validate that the allegedly neutral device has a "substantial legitimate justification" (next to impossible since the test was never validated); or c) there exist less discriminatory alternatives to the challenged device producing the disparity (see Chicago SEHS admissions).
Please read the actual complaint of the NAACP before making assumptions about what it says. I think this board offers tremendous potential if difficult conversations are based on an informed exchange of ideas and reasoned debate that avoids logical fallacies.
There is another theory of discrimination under federal law that more closely aligns with your comments–it is systemic disparate treatment. Basically, if the expected numbers based on the qualified and relevant labor market do not reflect the actual numbers at a workplace by two standard deviations or more, then there is a "prima facie" showing of systemic disparate treatment using this statistically-based mode of proof. Federal law supports claims of discrimination under this theory as well. Do I interpret correctly based on your statements inveighing against "statistically proportionate shares" that you also oppose the 1964 Civil Rights Act's (Title VII in particular) systemic disparate treatment causes of action?
@86: Your NY specialized high school admissions analogy to hiring in the NBA, combined with your failure to respond to my questions in @82 reveal the false equivalency you have drawn between the NY SHSAT-based admissions and NBA hiring practices. One is currently under legal scrutiny from federal authorities and will not survive in its current form, and the other is not. You can try to pretend that your analogy reveals more (through resort to straw man argumentation suggesting implicit quotas or anti-Asian racism), but it does not.
Please reread this para and rephrase: "If you don't know, there are also the tier-system that does all "magic". Yes, it's more race diverse (not the same as "diverse") in expense of academic proficiency. You can find a lot of long arguments on how wealth is a direct effect of education… Unfortunately for tier-system proponents poor Asians in NYC seriously undermine that causality."
What do you mean by "academic proficiency"? To what "long arguments" are you referring when you say "wealth is a direct effect of education. . ." And what do you mean by "poor Asians in NYC seriously undermine that causality"? What causality? Very unclear.
Wishing all a great holiday season. Signing out until after xmas.
" The NAACP's complaint currently pursued by federal investigators identifies the disparate impact by establishing the protected groups (here, African American and Latinos) as having significantly lower offer rates to specialized high schools than the highest scoring group (here, Asian Americans) "
The complaint is premised on deviations from a hypothetical equal representation — identical admission rates — among the ethnicities. It's the same logic that, if the ideal equal rate of success obtains, NYC's demographic composition would present itself in those few schools. Conversely, as the demographics doesn't show up because of disparate rates of success, the admission process must be categorically wrong and then attributable to testing practices that result in the difference. The test-takers themselves, presumably, have done nothing wrong, whether they choose to study three hours or thirty minutes a day at home.
As for existing laws, it seems few clauses' vitality is immune to ongoing and future litigations, and this forum is probably not the best place to argue about their authority.
I read NAACP initiatives in Education and some of them are indeed right to the point. For example, "NAACP Reads" stresses importance of early reading proficiency, summer education, parenting etc (http://gradelevelreading.net/) and looks like a great idea in the right direction. So, it's probably their position on NYC SEHS is rather questionable than the organization itself. It seems NAACP is also at odds with NYCED over other much broader issues.
What do you think?
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So go ahead… Speak your truth, live from the heart and give others the freedom to do the same.


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If you or your business needs help with patents or intellectual property law, call us at 415-781-2888 or contact us online to set up an appointment. Our office is located in San Francisco for your convenience.


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Facebook Decal
Regular price $18.00
Promote your facebook page with this decal. Our facebook window decals use an eye-pleasing graphic and have a professional appeal. Compare our quality of decals, exclusive designs and customer service you'll see why Social Media Decals is better!
You will receive one 6" x 12" high quality reusable window decals.
Custom sizes are available. Please Contact Us for more details.
Standard: Sticks on the outside surface (exterior), reads to the outside.
Reversed: For Glass only. Sticks on the inside--reads from the outside.


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I just finished uploading this House for sale, 2832 NW 74th St, Seattle, WA
Stunningly elegant NEW construction w/ gleaming Swedish Finished hardwoods, crown molding, ornate trimwork, 2 gas fireplaces, gourmet granite/stainless kitchen w/ island, main flr living/dining, family & office. Lovely master suite w/ sitting area & spa-like 6 piece bath. FOUR bdms on the upper level. Potential ADU in lower level w/ FIFTH bedroom & add'l full bath. 30 yr roof & on-demand gas H2O tank. High Walkability! See MLS#: 155553, 275295, 334147 &152475 for finish examples


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A new vaccine designed to protect against meningitis B has been approved by the European Commission for use across the EU.
Bexsero provides protection against meningococcal serogroup B disease, a bacterial infection that is the leading cause of meningitis across Europe.
It can be given to infants from two months of age and should help to prevent a large number of deaths and life-long disabilities among survivors.
Andrin Oswald, division head at Novartis Vaccines and Diagnostics, said: 'Each year, thousands of parents see their children die or left with severe disabilities as a result of this devastating disease.
'Through the combined efforts of many people over two decades, we are closer than ever to seeing an end to this suffering.'
Mr Oswald added that the company will work with decision makers to ensure 'broad and timely' access to the new vaccine.
Steve Dayman, founder of the charity Meningitis UK, described the vaccine as the most important breakthrough in the field for 30 years.
'The vaccine must be made widely available through the immunisation schedule as soon as possible,' he said.
Bexsero is not yet included in the UK's immunisation schedule and will be discussed at a meeting of the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation later this year.


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AutoZone is an American store and it is the second-largest retailer of secondary selling car parts and luxury in the United States, behind Advance Auto Parts. It was founded in 1979, and AutoZone now has more than 5,000 stores all over the United States, Mexico, and Brazil. AutoZone is the main retailer and the main merchant of new auto parts and embellishments in the U.S. AutoZone offers auto and light truck parts, chemicals and extras through AutoZone stores in 49 U.S. states as well as the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, Mexico, and Brazil. The retail chain offers both private-mark items, including Duralast and Deutsch, and brand names. For over 30 years, AutoZone has been focused on giving the best parts, costs and client benefits in the car reseller's exchange industry. AutoZone has a rich culture and history of going the 'Extra Mile' for AutoZone customers. AutoZone coupons engage auto proprietors to assume responsibility for their vehicle's upkeep by offering them instruments, adornments, and liquids that are used to keep them out and about. AutoZone has a global presence that allows it to cater to customers all over the world.
Founded in 1979
Recognized world wide
Has an online presence
AutoZone customers have the option to order items from the official website. AutoZone offers the choice to put in a request for parts on the official website and then customers can pick them up from nearby AutoZone stores during the day. While submitting an online request for an order pick up, customers must choose an item that is qualified and in stock at a nearby AutoZone store. They can then choose Store Pickup and finish the request. They will get an email when the item is ready for pickup. AutoZone likewise offers the choice to a client to have things dispatched directly to their home if that is something that they want. You can likewise make use of AutoZone coupons for discounts in order to purchase items at a reduced rate. Online payment is easy via Visa, MasterCard, Discover, American Express, PayPal, PayPal Credit, AutoZone Gift Cards and AutoZone Merchandise Credit Cards.
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Get It In Writing
Navigating The Storm Of Home Improvement Projects
After years of experience in the Home Improvement and Sales industries you could easily say I've learned most of the "Tricks" of the trade(s). Unfortunately, there are a lot of unscrupulous contractors out there that are always looking for new ways to trick or get one over on the unsuspecting homeowner(s).
FairBids.Com has dedicated itself to helping homeowners in any way they can, adding more value to your home improvement project than any other source available to you.
If It's Not In Writing
Most of us has heard the old adage that says "If It's Not In Writing, It wont happen or it doesn't exist" This is absolutely true.
Have a pen and paper handy and take notes LOTS OF NOTES! Make sure that if you come to an agreement and decide to move forward with that contractor that everything your salesperson said to you is listed on the contract! If it is not DON'T SIGN ANYTHING! Demand that it's written down otherwise don't do business with them!
Most, if not all will have the ability to put it on the contract. Never accept a note on a piece of paper that Is not an official document with the company's logo, name and address on it. The only other acceptable documents would be an "Addendum to contractor or change order".
There are countless lawsuits that homeowners have brought that have been thrown out of court because it wasn't written down and it simply became "He Said She Said" arguments.
Navigating the stormy seas of home improvement does not have to be difficult, FairBids.Com gives homeowners a strong platform on which to stand and to help them make decisions and get information from an unbiased 3rd party. Keeping checking in or subscribe to our blog to get the latest and greatest information on making your next home improvement project the best it can be!


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By Chris Raimondi, CLP
SelectionUnless you are an experienced pro, stick with the tried and proven plants and tree varieties that are available. You will recognize about 20 plants. Families or groupings work best. Do not forget about some of the inspiring new ways to use the plants. Green walls or Vertical walls are very much in vogue, and offer space saving ways to use plant materials in new ways. These walls also offer a unique ability to increase the effectiveness of the plants' cleansing ability.
If you pay attention to the light requirements of each plant or tree, your chances of failure are much less. Choose the correct species for the available light in the area. Asking a cactus to live in a dark room is a death sentence. Plants usually are grouped into High, Medium and Low light levels. If unsure ask your interior plant provider. Water is the next area where people have issues. Water your plant when it needs it, not before and obviously not when it's too late. All plants will give signals on water needs. Use your finger as one of the tests to determine soil moisture. And remember, we actually kill more plants than you believe from overwatering. Don't worry about humidity, fertilizer or insects for starters. After you establish a good environment you will see that these issues are not a big deal and you will be able to handle it.
Great Interior plant choices: Aglaonema Pothos
Bromeliad Rhapis
Dracaena Sansevieria
Ficus Spathiphyllum
Utilizing some real basic skills, the interior plants and trees will automatically provide cleaner air, happiness and chemical remediation that benefit us within hours. Good luck and remember that photosynthesis is a necessity of life!
Chris Raimondi, a Certified Landscape Professional, is President /CEO of Raimondi Horticultural Group, Inc. www.raimondihg.com. He is an instructor at the New York Botanical Garden, Adjunct Professor and frequent Green Industry speaker.
Helpful Links
GPGB www.greenplantsforgreenbuildings.org
Consumer Resources. http://www.loveyourlandscape.com/


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Water Feature
Large fish pond with filtration, UV, Skimmer and lighting to enjoy in the late evenings. Pond is edged with Chinese limestone paving and incorporates waterfall feed through a large Urn. The water remains clear all year round and planting is minimal – just one Aponogeton. Bog Garden on the left and paved sitting area on the right.


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Welcome to the ladybird club. I am Teresa and I offer a dedicated registered childminding service with a difference.
I am based in the Talbot Woods area of Bournemouth, near the Bournemouth University Talbot Campus and I offer a relaxed environment where each child can express themselves and develop throug play and learning.
Call us on ...
07910 735175
email ... firstname.lastname@example.com
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Winter is almost here, which means now is the time to prepare your Bobcat® for winter work. From augers and pallet forks to snow removal, there are plenty of attachments to choose from that help you get the maximum payload from your skid steer loader.
What Bobcat Attachments Should You Look for This Winter?
While there are dozens of Bobcat® attachments to choose from, these are our top picks for snow and ice removal this winter:
- Angled Broom – Perfect for sweeping away light snowfall from sidewalks and jobsites.
- Snow Wing – Ideal for large parking lots, maximum versatility.
- Snow Blade – Perfect for removing light to moderate snow from driveways, sidewalks, and jobsites.
- Snow Bucket – Haul away large volumes of snow and push back in a straight line with a bucket attachment.
- Snow Pusher – The pusher offers a free-floating blade that removes snow on uneven surfaces.
- Snow Blower – This throws and blows snow out of the way, including deep drifts to quickly clear a path.
- Spreader – This can quickly distribute salt and sand to walkways and parking lots helping to prevent ice and snow buildup after it has been cleared away.
Preparing Your Skid Steer Loader for Winter Work
Winter work is going to take a lot out of your skid steer loader. Before you start plowing away snow and ice, make sure your Bobcat® is ready for the job.
- Check all fluids, oils and fuels. You need anti-freeze in your Bobcat® that meets manufacturer specifications for cold weather.
- Make sure tires are inflated properly, because they will naturally lose air volume in the cold.
- Test your Bobcat's battery before starting the next job to avoid unnecessary, costly delays. Check all battery wires and connections as well for signs of corrosion; these could lead to a loss of cranking power.
- Inspect all skid steer attachments, including associated hoses, cylinders and guards. Do not forget to check fluid levels for attachments and lubrication as well.
Tag Equipment carries the latest Bobcat® accessories and attachments at the best possible price. Get your skid steer loader ready for winter and call us today at 416-716-5850 for more information.
Our inventory features a range of Bobcat® attachments and rubber tracks for models that include mini excavators 323, 328, 331, 334, 335, 337, 418, 430, 435, E20, E26, E32i, E32, E35i, E35, E42, E45, E50, E55, E63, and E85. Compact track loaders MT52, MT55, T110, T140, T180, T190, T200, T250, T300, T320, T450, T550, T590, T630, T650, T750, T770, T830, T870. Skid steer loaders S70, S130, S175, S185, S205, S220, S250, S300, S330, S450, S530, S550, S570, S590, S630, S650, S740, S750, S770.


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Uzalo Teasers - February 2017
Monday 6 February 2017
Gc freaks out as MaNzuza arrives at the police station with bloodied hands. Ayanda and Nosipho panic as MaNgcobo stops moving on the ambulance ride to the hospital. Mondli is horrified as he opens the study to inspect the crime scene at the Mdletshe house.
Tuesday 7 February 2017
A paranoid and cautious Mastermind searches for the person who shot Mxolisi. Everyone eagerly waits for MaNgcobo to gain consciousness in hospital. MaNzuza refuses helping hands, opting to plead guilty for k_illing Mxolisi.
Wednesday 8 February 2017
Mxolisi is on a mission to free his mother and Bandile even if it means jeopardizing his own freedom. Mondli and Captain Mthimkhulu are frustrated when new evidence against MaNgcobo comes to light. Jabulile is told that her son won't be released anytime soon.
Thursday 9 February 2017
Mxolisi has come home to live in the Mdletshe home. Ayanda is not having it. The Doctor discharges MaNgcobo but she can't go home yet. Mondli sends MaNgcobo to a mental illness institution where she will remain till she can stand trial.
Friday 10 February 2017
Mastermind is rejected by one of his closest allies. Ayanda doesn't know what's in store for him when he gets to the church. MaNgcobo tries to get out of a sticky situation, but finds herself in another one.
Monday 13 February 2017
Another person plants a doubtful seed in Ayanda's mind about the baby; this time Ayanda is shaken to the core. MaNgcobo's life of hell worsens in the mental institution. Mastermind feels that his life is now worthless.
Tuesday 14 February 2017
MaNgcobo wakes up to find Patjutju staring at her intently. MaNzuza and Mxolisi awkwardly try to bond again. Ayanda asks Smangele if she slept with another man and is lying about Nkosinathi's true paternity.
Wednesday 15 February 2017
Mangcobo is weighing her options, trying to see if there are any ways out of this hole she finds herself in. Mxolisi's bold plan to revive the choir is not received well by the other members. Nosipho makes it clear to Smangele that she trusts Gogo Bethwell more than her.
Thursday 16 February 2017
MaNgcobo is ready for her escape plan but Patjutju seems to be a stumbling block. Wilfred confirms the details of the escape. MaNzuza is happy Mxolisi is busy with the choir but MaMlambo wants to join. Advocate Zulu (played by Luthuli Dlamini) and MaNzuza bond. Ayanda is adamant the christening won't be at the Mdletshe's.
Friday 17 February 2017
MaNgcobo's plan to get out backfires badly. Ayanda finally finds out about Nkosinathi's paternity. MaNzuza is in internal conflict after her forbidden kiss. MaNgcobo is shocked to find out that her attacker is Patjutju, halting her escape plans. Mxolisi runs a few ideas about the choir to an agitated MaNzuza.
Monday 20 February 2017
MaNgcobo asks DK for help, she has a solid plan to get out of the mental asylum. Ayanda pulls a stunt that leaves Smangele heart broken and many shocked to the core. Mxolisi drops a bombshell that has MaNzuza spooked.
Tuesday 21 February 2017
A hurt Ayanda does the unthinkable. Everyone is shocked to hear why Ayanda did what he did. MaNgcobo gets ready to put her plan in motion. Smangele runs out of church. Patjutju shows MaNgcobo the bag of money. MaNzuza begs Mxolisi not to leave now. Smangele tells Ayanda that even she's not the mother of the
Wednesday 22 February 2017
Mastermind asks DK to find out who is Smangele's baby-daddy. MaMlambo warns MaNzuza against getting involved with Advocate Zulu. A stranger comes to Town and immediately wins the hearts and minds of KwaMashu, especially GC's.
Thursday 23 February 2017
KwaMashu is still buzzing from last night's Nkunzi (played by Masoja Msiza) launch party, with everyone taking a liking to Nkunzi, except Mastermind. Mangcobo is quickly reminded of how silly she was for trusting a mentally ill patient to help her escape. MaNzuza can't get Advocate Zulu out of her mind and her knees go weak when he knocks at her door.
Friday 24 February 2017
Nkunzi refuses to take no for an answer when it comes to the Xulu house, and is willing to use whatever means necessary. MaNzuza and Advocate Zulu are infatuated by each other. Immensely in-love. Mxolisi attempts to make peace with the choir.
Monday 27 February 2017
Smangele is pleasantly surprised when Thobile shows up at her doorstep and offers her some comfort in her hour of need. When MaNgcobo refuses to sell him her house, Nkunzi resorts to dangerous ways to send a message.
Advocate Zulu proposes to MaNzuza, and she is about to say yes, when an unexpected guest shows up at her doorstep.
Tuesday 28 February 2017
MaNgcobo is forced into a corner when she discovers that her daughter's life is in danger. MaNzuza has a dilemma, as Pastor Mdletshe (now played by Glen Gabela) wants to pick up where they left off. Smangele and a close friend make amends.


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Education Consulting Service
TECS simplifies the complex world of education compliance and funding through innovation & customer-focused services. Their team specializes in working with school administrators and education professionals to analyze and manage millions of dollars in state and federal funding.
Snyxius worked with TECS, a 50 year old education consulting company to revamp their online presence and help them digitally transform. TECS was looking to embrace the tech era and was looking to refresh its outdated online brand to a more clean, innovative & digitally inclined company. Snyxius studied TECS's history and vision to come up with a brand new look for its online website and worked with the executive team to bring the project to life.
Website Design, Wordpress Theme Development, Logo Design