text:
The Final Presidential Debate: First Thoughts and Who Won?
The debates of the 2008 presidential election are now over, brought to a close by an at-times testy back and forth between Barack Obama and John McCain at Hofstra University in New York.
McCain did not score the knockout blow that many Republicans had hoped but he did land several solid body shots -- the best of which was his repudiation of Obama's contention that he represented four more years of President George W. Bush.
Obama, well aware of his lead in state and national polls, refused to be flustered by McCain and instead brought nearly every question he was asked back to the economy and the struggles of average middle class families. Obama wasn't particularly dynamic, but he didn't have to be.
A few of our other thoughts are below. But we want to hear from you too. Who won the Hubbub at Hofstra? And why? The comments section awaits. Or if you prefer, you can leave a video response below.
One more quick note: The Fix will be making a quick jaunt to the Left Coast tomorrow and Friday so posting will be a bit lighter than usual. Thanks in advance for your understanding.
• "Joe the Plumber." The McCain campaign clearly saw an opening from the widely circulated You Tube clip of Obama talking to -- obviously -- a plumber named Joe. Time and again throughout the debate, McCain name-checked Joe as a stand-in for small business owners who, he argued, would be badly hurt by Obama's tax plan. McCain needed to find a way to connect on the economy and his campaign clearly believed it found it in Joe. Maybe. But, as we said in the runup to tonight's debate, McCain's problems as a messenger on the economy can't be fixed in a night. If Joe the Plumber is where he is going to go in the next 20 days, he needs to hammer on it day and night to try and change voter perceptions before Nov. 4.
• Obama's Cool. Obama has learned one key lesson during the 9,000 debates in this campaign -- don't lose your cool. McCain, on several occasions, mocked Obama (laughs, smirks etc.) and interrupted him to try and correct the record. Obama largely ignored these verbal (and nonverbal) jabs, knowing that the one way he would surely lose the debate -- and jeopardize his place in the race -- was to lose his temper. Obama was steady but not spectacular tonight; come to think of it, that phrase could describe his performance in all three debates.
• McCain's Scatter-Shot Approach. The key in any political campaign is to latch on to one really powerful argument against your opponent and stick to it. It's why the "celebrity" attack by McCain on Obama worked earlier this summer; the McCain came up with it and repeated it endlessly. Tonight, McCain couldn't seem to decide which line of attack he wanted to focus on. He did break the Ayers seal but also threw in ACORN, negotiating with rogue leaders, taxes, and a lack of international experience among other issues. For the average viewers, that scatter-shot approach makes it VERY hard to know what exactly to focus on in McCain's case against Obama.
• Abortion, Really? Roughly ten minutes -- one-ninth -- of the debate was focused on abortion. The truth is that while many people feel passionately on both sides of the issue, their minds are almost completely made up. McCain may have stayed on abortion longer than many GOP strategists would have liked in hopes of courting those white, working class voters who tend to be conservative on social issues but it's hard to imagine many undecided voters making up their minds based on the candidates' stance on abortion.
• The "Split Screen Smirk/Smile." Both Obama and McCain seemed to have decided that the best way to nonverbally dismiss their opponent's attacks was to smile. It didn't work for either candidate. McCain's facial expressions seemed contrived, Obama's vaguely arrogant. Just a steady look into the camera will do nicely. Did no one learn from Al Gore's debate sighs in 2000?
• Schieffer Shines. Anyone who has ever met Bob Schieffer (and The Fix has had the honor -- albeit just once) knows that he is the ultimate class act -- and a great journalist to boot. Man, did he show it tonight. Schieffer kept the debate moving, asked probing questions and wasn't afraid to interrupt one of the candidates when they veered wildly off topic. Well done.
Chris Cillizza
October 15, 2008; 10:27 PM ET
Categories: Eye on 2008
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That was truly an entertaining debate. I must have watched it at least ten times trying to get all of McCain's sarcastic jokes down. I do not think that the candidates brought anything of real signifigance to the table. I believe that did more defaming of each other's character and lying than any real policy discussion. I made a youtube video of all of McCain's biggest lies you should check it out here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2vVFYYnNto and if you are interested in commenting on the debate's transcript itself or anywhere on the world wide web without the permission of the site owner than check out http://www.reframeit.com
Posted by: Maximilian1 | October 20, 2008 1:24 PM | Report abuse
* Pres. Bush been pres. for 8 yrs. = approval rating in 20's.
* Democrats control of Cong. 2 yrs. = approval rating teens.
* NOW IMAGINE WHAT IT WOULD BE LIKE IF THE DEMS. WOULD BE IN CONTROL OF PRESIDENCY AND CONGRESS FOR 4 yrs.. We are talking about single digits here.
* If Sen. Obama becomes president, we would have the Democratic policies of before the 1990s': 1) Extremely high tax on upper middle income, wealthy, and most businesses (we are talking business stunting policies); 2) Wealth shifting 3) No free trade; 4) Less individual responsibility and more inefficient, big Gov. control (more socialism and less capitalism); 5) Welfare system, free housing, unending unemployment benefits; 6) Energy policy on which we would waist money and time (because it is unworkable); 7) Reactive and inactive foreign policies( in other word, we would be waiting for rain to fall before we start building shelter).
* BTW, if I were Sen. McCain, I would have great economists, Gov. Huckabee, Gov. Romny, Ms. Firona representing me on campaign trail and on TV, so voters' confidence in me would increase.
Posted by: lazerboy | October 18, 2008 11:24 AM | Report abuse
I have read these post with such amazement the last few days. I cannot believe how shallow everyone has gotten.
First: Why does Joe the Plumber's personal business make the main stream media?? The only thing he did was ask a legit question to a candidate....so that means his income, religion, political party, etc is NONE of the media's business.
Second: McCain's mom taking a trip to Paris and buying a car to drive around...well she is 96 yrs old and is she is able then all I can say is I hope she had a blast...BUT is it really none of anyone's business but hers, I don't think she ask you to pay for it.
We as a country is fixing to VOTE in one of the most important election in history and one that is going make history books no matter how it turns out.
SO if your shallow enough that what someone's mom is doing or getting into someone's personal affairs for asking a question then you need to NOT vote.
NOW ask yourself this question: have you spent as much time on candidates as on Joe the Plumber or researching where and what someone's mom did on vacation???
If not then you are NOT prepared to vote with any type of intelligence.
Posted by: djmiller1 | October 17, 2008 9:09 PM | Report abuse
Is Joe the Plummer legitimate or was he a McCain campaign plant? Does Joe really have a connection to Keating?
Posted by: oliver6 | October 17, 2008 9:07 AM | Report abuse
Gallup shocker! Obama up by 2 points with likely voters!
Posted by: dcpsychic | October 16, 2008 10:03 PM | Report abuse
There's a new version of Sarah's famous exorcism out -- it's even crazier than the first!
Posted by: LisaJM | October 16, 2008 7:19 PM | Report abuse
McCain can say it anyway he wants, he's still a "continuation" of Bush's policies. The policies are not so much personal as they are partisan. John McCain can be as "cute" as he wants to about it. In the end, John McCain has bought off on the Conservative Republican philosophy. And, that philosophy involves marching to a certain beat.
One of the great differences between Bush and McCain is that, "W" made no bones about being a "Party-man". And, "W" has Dick Cheney as his V.P. No matter what one may think about him, Dick Cheney is a powerful and worthy force. And, Karl Rove is a political genius.
John McCain is certainly NOT, George Bush. And, having said that, what's the import?
Posted by: hwilfongjr | October 16, 2008 5:09 PM | Report abuse
Joe or Sam which is his real name: Tax cheat, unlicensed and Keating family member
October 16, 2008, 2:48PM
So, let me get this straight. Joe "the plumber" Wurzelbacher has no license to practice plumbing, has neglected to pay his taxes and is a relative of the Keating family. The first two points are largely irrelevant, though they will no doubt be studied by the media for hours. But the question the media should be asking is this: Is Wurzelbacher a McCain campaign plant, who was deliberately placed in Obama's path in Ohio? And if so, what does this say about John McCain's relationship with the Keatings, which he insists ended years ago? And if they say he wasn't a plant, is this just too much of a coincidence to believe?
Posted by: Grissom1001 | October 16, 2008 4:44 PM | Report abuse
It'd be interesting to see what kind of prescription meds that McCain is on.
He looked like a baseball player from the 90s, juiced up on ephedra, neurons firing quickly, but irritable as all heck...
Posted by: jrob822 | October 16, 2008 3:46 PM | Report abuse
Joe the Plumber is quite a guy, according to the Toledo Blade at this URL
1. He's not a licensed plumber
2. He doesn't like taxes so much that he just doesn't pay them; there's a tax lien against him right now
3. He made about $40K a year in 2006, and though he certainly isn't making anywhere near the $250K ceiling on Obama's tax cuts, he's such a misguided wealth groupie that he's willing to be robbed right now by our existing tax structure in the HOPE that someday he MIGHT become one of the robbers.
4. Though his name is "Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher," his county voter registrar has him down as "Samuel Joseph Worzelbacher." This is the kind of thing that Republicans want to DISQUALIFY voters on election day in their attempt to disqualify as many new voters as possible. So "Joe the Plumber" may not even be allowed to vote for the Republican party he admires, a party which has no respect or support for him at all.
This ridiculous view on tax policy is shared by a great many people living in trailers, rentals, highly-mortgaged and/or soon-to-be-foreclosed homes, who are being cheated by current Republican tax policy but play along because they imagine some day, they'll maybe own seven houses and thirteen cars just like John McCain. WAKE UP, PEOPLE!
Class warfare began with Ronald Reagan, and it's been the ultra-rich versus the rest of us ever since. Only Bill Clinton made a dent in the regressive tax policies Republicans hold so dear. Nancy Reagan is lying in a hospital bed today, and though she may have many worries, SHE has insurance and losing her home because she broke her pelvis is not one of them. Dick Cheney was in the hospital yesterday too -- same story. He doesn't have to worry about his kids going hungry or his mortgage going unpaid because HE has health insurance -- the same kind of federal health insurance pool Obama will create for the uninsured. WAKE UP, PEOPLE, WAKE UP!
Posted by: ankhorite | October 16, 2008 3:10 PM | Report abuse
I'm not sure I agree with Mr Cillizza's assessment that Obama's smiles "didn't work", in response to some of McCain's more outrageous charges.
As to Schieffer's conduct of the debates, I agree in general, but there were points where I thought he lowered the tone of the debate (focussing on negative campaign ads and the invitation to Obama...which the Senator wisely declined... to state the obvious, that Palin isn't qualified to be President).
Senator McCain really had an impossible mission last night; he improved his delivery relative to previous debates, but all in all the vignette still evoked images of the Kennedy-Nixon debate. McCain came across as surly and sarcastic, while Obama projected dignity and calm.
Absent an "October surprise", perhaps its time for McCain to accept the inevitable, and dial back the heated rhetoric and character attacks, rather than further polarizing the American electorate, and compromising the opportunity for the next President to lead a united country.
Posted by: Iconoblaster | October 16, 2008 2:51 PM | Report abuse
I completely disagree with your comment on the split screen. The idea that somebody would sit stoically without any facial response when being directly attacked by their opponent is just unrealistic. It would come across as being devoid of any emotion/humanity. Given the circumstance, a genuine rueful smile is appropriate. The difficulty is preventing it from looking like a condescending smirk. I personally thought that Obama was more successful in finding the correct balance, but I came into the debate more predisposed to this conclusion.
Posted by: acoffin | October 16, 2008 2:46 PM | Report abuse
By the way, it turns out "Joe the Plumber" is not even registered to vote. Plus, he's not even a licensed plumber! From "Crooks and Liars":
I guess it's no wonder John McCain was so happy to use "Joe the Plumber" as a debate prop last night -- he's a partisan Republican who also happens to be a member of McCain's old friends, the Keating family.
Turns out that Joe Wurzelbacher from the Toledo event is a close relative of Robert Wurzelbacher of Milford, Ohio. Who's Robert Wurzelbacher? Only Charles Keating's son-in-law and the former senior vice president of American Continental, the parent company of the infamous Lincoln Savings and Loan. The now retired elder Wurzelbacher is also a major contributor to Republican causes giving well over $10,000 in the last few years.
Posted by: sheridan1 | October 16, 2008 2:31 PM | Report abuse
"I am not President Bush," he said. With that, McCain is supposed to have abolished all such notions, forever putting to rest all such future nonsense. Bah!
Of course John McCain is not George W. Bush! Who would draw any such an absurd conclusion, from any source? McCain overstates the obvious and drags a red herring across the noses of ignorant worms peering with one eye from their dank little holes. Most of them will never understand.
Comparing John McCain to George W. Bush is code for John McCain being a Republican. Obama and other Democrats are saying (too subtly for some unwashed masses, I guess) that with McCain as President, we will be in for four more years of the Republican Party and their policies in the White House.
The Maverick doth protest too much, methinks. McCain believes his own rhetoric. He may be a maverick in his own party, but he is still an unimaginatively conventional conservative Republican through and through, which, if you study those words and public definitions for them, you cannot draw the conclusion that McCain will bring change to "Warshington." He cannot, as a Republican minion. He is beholding to the status quo; he is the status quo incarnate!
Do not believe that McCain would eschew conservative policies both fiscal and social. It is change away from those ideologies that we want and need. Obama is the only one on our ballots who can do it.
Posted by: ddesousa | October 16, 2008 2:30 PM | Report abuse
I don't think "Joe the Plumber" (who is, apparently, unlicensed and has a lien against him for unpaid state taxes) can save Mr. McCain from the drubbing he and his party so richly deserve. Nice try, but how many "Average Joe" plumbers do you know who net more than $250,000 a year? How many plumbing businesses, even? If any small business can't get its profits below $250,000 per year it needs to hire a new accountant.
The "Joe the Plumber" schtick aside, McCain's bottled up rage and contempt lost the debate for him once again. Obama just looks and acts more like a President. People don't trust someone with the anger issues that McCain obviously has. This debate goes to Obama. It is now 4 for 4 for the Democrats. Game over.
Posted by: johnsonc2 | October 16, 2008 2:28 PM | Report abuse
Obama was addressing in Manhattan before an exclusive club of CEOs . Obama said "One of the things that I think we have to remember is that we are now 19 days, not from the end, but from the beginning," Mr. Obama said. "The amount of work that will be involved for the next president is going to be extraordinary. What we want to do in these 19 days is show the same passion for Americans who are struggling out there, show the same dedication, show the same stick-to-it-ness, show the same steadiness that's going to be required in guiding this country past some very difficult times." These are simple words. In your debate you listed several items which cannot solved during this world economic enviornment. Question is is the old one."same what?" "Obama, where is the beef?"
Posted by: madayilnair | October 16, 2008 2:10 PM | Report abuse
...just a minute ago at his rally in PA McCain told a story about how his 96 year old mother decided she wanted to drive around Paris. So she flew to Paris and went to rent a car, but they wouldn't let her do that so she BOUGHT A CAR so she could DRIVE AROUND PARIS FOR AN AFTERNOON. Am I the only one who thinks he's out of touch with the average American citizen???
Posted by: biloxibelle | October 16, 2008 1:24 PM | Report abuse
Ol' Tounge- Poppin' McJerk had his sorry A$$ whooooped; he proved that he can get a job at FOX News when he retires !!!!
''Joe-the-Plumber'' is the new Repugnant ''Joe Six-Pack'' !!!!!
Hey Joe, I have a job for you - - the Repugnant Party Machinery and the McJerk Campaign, is 'CLOGGED-UP' with ALL THE CRAP BUILD-UP OVER THE LAST EIGHT YEARS and THE STENCH IS UNBEARABLE - - - you know what to do !!!!!!!
p.s. By the way Joe, If you are making quarter-a-million, HOW ABOUT HIRING SOME OF YOUR UNEMPLOYED COUNTRY MEN & WOMEN ??
[ me firmly thinks, you are 'BS'ing for Fox News !! ]
Posted by: mewindows | October 16, 2008 1:20 PM | Report abuse
The Washington Post should do something about the abuse of the "report abuse" feature.
The Obama campaign is clearly placing complaints BASED ON THE CONTENT OF ONE'S VIEWS AND NOT ACTUAL INFRACTIONS.
In fact the Obama campaign is asking other posters to place complaints based on the views of the poster.
Obama's campaign is ACTIVELY SEEKING TO LIMIT FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
The Washington Post, the hero of the Pentagon Papers, should oppose these efforts of the Obama campaign and make a public statement on this extremely important issue.
Posted by: 37thandOSt | October 16, 2008 1:13 PM | Report abuse
Will abortion sway any independents? It is a factor in some of our minds, though not necessarily a dominant one as it is for some hard-core McCain or Obama supporters.
drindl said: "Obama cares about women's health, McCain doesn't give a damn... and admits it."
This is a blatant exaggeration, regardless of one's view on abortion. His point, which is commonly trotted out by anti-abortionists, is a fair one -- namely, that a vague health exception can be stretched to include even minor mental health distress such as sadness or minor depression. An overly broad health exception in this sense is an effective obliteration of *any* restriction on abortion whatsoever, even those that SCOTUS has said do not violate Roe's right to abortion.
Of course, anyone who didn't already get that wouldn't likely get it from last night. As with many of McCain's answers, only a knowledgeable listener could comprehend his point from all that incoherent stammering and babbling.
Posted by: biteme1 | October 16, 2008 1:03 PM | Report abuse
I feel that Senator McCain won last nights debate. He covered almost every view from taxes, trade, character, etc... I feel he wants to work for all Americans and not be driven by the views of one party. I am concerned with having one party run every area of government. We need checks and balances. The first six years of President Bush is an example of having one party run everything and Senator McCain made his point that he is not President Bush but someone who truly earned his chance to serve our country. I am an Independent and believe that the citizens run the government and government doesn't run us, but if we continue to allow government to take control we might one day lose our control. I don't think soldiers sacrificed their lives for more government control and no one knows that better then Senator McCain. Doesn't his sacrifice count for something???
Posted by: skifny | October 16, 2008 12:54 PM | Report abuse
Senator McCain:
With a wife who is always impeccably dressed, what possessed you to wear that undertaker's outfit last night? Did Cindy not pick your suit? Just because you are old, you don't have to look old. Last night, with that black suit, you looked fossilized!
Posted by: bigskells | October 16, 2008 12:45 PM | Report abuse
McCain seemed to be channelling Chucky.
Posted by: rslavelle | October 16, 2008 12:45 PM | Report abuse
With Katie C. interview "Joe the Plumber" revealed himself with the comment, "He dances like Sammy Davis, Jr." If he walks like a biggot, if he talks like a biggot.......
Posted by: Zynder | October 16, 2008 12:37 PM | Report abuse
From McCain supporters, I keep hearing the word 'socialist'. It's certainly a dirty & loaded word in America, but is there anything remotely socialist in Obama's agenda? And why is this such a scary concept to the GOP, when the alternative clearly isn't working out so well?
I'd love to hear some different points of view on this. And if you have a minute, we're collecting voter stories here: importantproject.com/2008/10/voter-profiles/
Posted by: james47 | October 16, 2008 12:36 PM | Report abuse
Enough already, no more please, we have heard enough. The wheel will not be reinvented no matter what McCain dreams about. He has become the talking point for all old , addled. bitter , and dilusional
politicians. This was an embarrassing
performance coupled with that phony self rightious indignation that has been the hallmark of his campaign. Poor McCain, he pretends to be deeply offended and hurt by
Lewis's remark's. Given the rhetoric and tone of his underquaified running mate's vitriolic,and phony innuendos towards Obama
he has no grounds to complain. His selection of Palin speaks volumes about his judgement or lack thereof.Just think
about what she is, no more then a political curiosity, voters are finally getting it.This holier then thou , "maverick" has finally shot himself in his lower extremity. To call this dynamic duo a disgrace is charitable.
Posted by: jbrubin | October 16, 2008 12:35 PM | Report abuse
Obama looked and acted Presidential. McCain looked like he sat on a tack while going on the attack.
McCain may have jazzed his base with the 'no room for mother's health consideration' with respect to abortions, but I'm not sure that plays so well with the other 75% of the population.
Posted by: Roofelstoon | October 16, 2008 12:26 PM | Report abuse
Imagine John McCain sitting at the table with G8 leaders, throwing up his hands, rolling his eyes, and dismissing others with sarcasm. .................
Posted by: glclark4750 | October 16, 2008 12:23 PM | Report abuse
Posted by: popasmoke | October 16, 2008 12:20 PM | Report abuse
So let's see...the reason Obama will be President is because of eight years of the failed policies of the Bush administration? Am I getting this right?
Pretty much.
Posted by: wpost4112 | October 16, 2008 12:18 PM | Report abuse
'No bombs and no outrage fits is the solution for our country now.
What the hell around you talking about, nisey? you must be confusing me with soemone else.'
Posted by: drindl | October 16, 2008 12:18 PM | Report abuse
What the Nazis did was incite people to violence, moron. Which is what palin and mccain are doing by standing by while whackjobs like you scream 'Kill Obama.'
And here we th difference. Obama cares about women's health, McCain doesn't give a damn... and admits it.
OBAMA: We can find some common ground, because nobody's pro-abortion. I think it's always a tragic situation. We should try to reduce these circumstances.
SCHIEFFER: Let's give Sen. McCain a short response...
McCAIN: Just again...
SCHIEFFER: ... and then...
McCAIN: Just again, the example of the eloquence of Sen. Obama. He's "health for the mother." You know, that's been stretched by the pro-abortion movement in America to mean almost anything. That's the extreme pro-abortion position, quote, "health."
Posted by: drindl | October 16, 2008 12:14 PM | Report abuse
That's why Obama is the best elect, because the reality of it all is that you need to know good leadership to deal effectively with all situations to minimize less detruction as possible. Fighting, bombing and plain ignorance is what have contributed to our critical status at present.
Fighting, bombing and plain ignorance? Care to elaborate? Who's fighting? Who's bombing?
Posted by: daveblack587 | October 16, 2008 12:12 PM | Report abuse
John McCain did what he had to do to win last night's debate. He skillfully contrasted his positions against those of Senator Government, er Obama, and made the case why he will make the best President. If McCain can continue to hammer home those differences over the final three weeks, he has a shot to make the largest Presidential election comeback since Harry Truman in 1948. http://savetheusavotemccain.blogspot.com
Posted by: gw12 | October 16, 2008 11:51 AM | Report abuse
I went to the website and interesting enough the best comparison is Obama to Truman not Mccain. Even though Obama is leading he is running pretty much a campaign based on what Truman did. Truman took his campaign directly to the people with his "whistle stop tours" working tirelessly. Obama has done it today with 21 century technology.
Posted by: popasmoke | October 16, 2008 12:10 PM | Report abuse
So let's see...the reason Obama will be President is because of eight years of the failed policies of the Bush administration? Am I getting this right?
Posted by: daveblack587 | October 16, 2008 12:09 PM | Report abuse
To drindl,
Regardless of how angry one may be, that doesn't give them the right to destroy. One must master the calm with the storm and the storm with the calm in measurable manners. That's why Obama is the best elect, because the reality of it all is that you need to know good leadership to deal effectively with all situations to minimize less detruction as possible. Fighting, bombing and plain ignorance is what have contributed to our critical status at present. Have respect and love for your country to want to see in in unity and in a better status for all and the generations to come. No one lives forever, so let's not be so complacent to forget that what we do today will not only effect us but our loved ones who will be here once we are gone, make it better for them. Change your ways, unite in peace and love, that which I would assume that you may have for your family and self. No bombs and no outrage fits is the solution for our country now. Get a grip. God Bless America!
Posted by: Nisey01 | October 16, 2008 12:07 PM | Report abuse
What I mean is, you call the Bush administration akin to the Nazis, but my recollection is that the Nazis weren't attacked by anyone, least of all head-removing Muslim extremists. So this is a comparrison?? Uhh, I don't think so.
Posted by: daveblack587 | October 16, 2008 12:05 PM | Report abuse
Obama clearly won Chris. Sure, McCain had a better debate performance compared to the previous two, but what was his OBJECTIVE?!
At this point in the presidential campaign, McCain still seemed like he was trying to woo the Republican Base for the most part.
All the insta-polling and focus groups that watched the debate, i.e. CNN, MSNBC, CBS, and FOX (yes even FOX!), thought that Obama won the debate.
Obama's objective was to reassure undecided voters that he had the intelligence and temperament to be president. Independents from the polls/focus groups said that Obama won the debate in a 2-to-1 margin over McCain.
Posted by: AJ2008 | October 16, 2008 12:02 PM | Report abuse
"…it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship. … All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger."
- Hermann Goering, founder of the Gestapo and one of the main architects of Nazi Germany.
See anything familiar?
Yes, I do. In all fairness, I do. You might be amazed at what I really think is going on, but we can only deal with what is right in front of us. It's like we can't DEAL with the idea that people hate us SO MUCH that they would actually DO what they did on 9/11. What I mean is, you call the Bush administration
Posted by: daveblack587 | October 16, 2008 12:01 PM | Report abuse
John McCain did what he had to do to win last night's debate. He skillfully contrasted his positions against those of Senator Government, er Obama, and made the case why he will make the best President. If McCain can continue to hammer home those differences over the final three weeks, he has a shot to make the largest Presidential election comeback since Harry Truman in 1948. http://savetheusavotemccain.blogspot.com
Posted by: gw12 | October 16, 2008 11:51 AM | Report abuse
Unfortunately last night was Mccains last chance to speak to a large audience when they were paying attention. It has already been determined the public didn't like what they saw last night.
All Mccain has left is several weeks of running youtube ad;s no one will see and talking to people who are no longer listening. Last night was it for Mccain.
On intrade Mccain has dropped into the low teens while Obama has moved into the mid 80's since the Debate.
Mccain no longer will be able to make anyone listen to him any more, he had his last chance last night.
It is over. It is just a matter how big Obama wins. I have a feeling it will be a landslide.
Posted by: popasmoke | October 16, 2008 12:00 PM | Report abuse
My family and I watched this debate and I must conclude that Obama in all our opinions won it, no doubt. McCain is a controversial figure which only adds to the paramount of problems that America already faces. He needs to take two and maybe lay low, because I definitely don't want to see him in the morning. He is posing problems after problems after problems and I think that he has grown very weary and disillusioned and maybe this is some part of the reason as to why our country is also suffering from such past reflections from a leadership. Yet he has the audacity to want to continually forward the Bush administration into the future. He is already financial secure and it goes to show us that he cares less about the country's financial status because he has his and we have ours to get with no help from him, a person whom wants to inhabit the white house. If that is putting country first, than I would hate to see country last. God Bless America!
Posted by: Nisey01 | October 16, 2008 11:55 AM | Report abuse
John McCain did what he had to do to win last night's debate. He skillfully contrasted his positions against those of Senator Government, er Obama, and made the case why he will make the best President. If McCain can continue to hammer home those differences over the final three weeks, he has a shot to make the largest Presidential election comeback since Harry Truman in 1948. http://savetheusavotemccain.blogspot.com
Posted by: gw12 | October 16, 2008 11:51 AM | Report abuse
It's amazing to think Obama hit the national stage as a soaring orator. In these three debates, he was anything but.
Which tells me this man understands the political moment the way Reagan and Clinton did. He had to spend 4.5 hours, his opponent throwing every punch he could, with an audience imagining him sitting behind a desk in the Oval Office. He could not afford one misstep; he had to be perfect on that front. And he pulled it off magnificently.
McCain's concessions to his base and erratic response to the financial crisis have killed him. And given those are the two key questions you have about someone who wants to be President -- how will their base impact decisions, and how will they handle a crisis -- I think he's flunked both.
I'm voting Obama.
Posted by: starthom | October 16, 2008 11:50 AM | Report abuse
This poster is typical of republicans today -- angry, hateful, fearful, intemperate, paranoid and constantly enraged. Just like McCain -- and why they are going to lose.
Posted by: drindl | October 16, 2008 11:44 AM | Report abuse
McCain is too shrewd of an individual and have picked a VP that is living in a fairy land with no clue of reality. America deserves better than such two clueless figures. And for McCain to act in such a manner knowing that he has been in the white house for some 26 years, know the ins and outs about what goes on there, it goes to show that his judgement is very dysfunctional in his decision making as to this point. He should know better, he couldn't have put country first with such inconsiderate choices that he have made lately. He doesn't care about this country, he cares about the money that he and his fatcats are trying to hold on too at the expense of the little people on the totem poles. Enough is enough, every American desereves a piece of the rock and things do change, nothing remains the same except maybe the same ole same ole McCain. Obama in my honest opinion won this debate and he laid out info redirecting this American country to restore it from it's critical stauts at present and incooperated provisions wherein "Yes We Can" together as a united people accomplish this mission for all. America needs an uplift not a downlift as that is what McCain's agenda feeds on so immensely at this point. America is hungry for a "Change", stop starving this precious country! God Bless America!
Posted by: Nisey01 | October 16, 2008 11:38 AM | Report abuse
John McCain, like all Republicans since Ronald Reagan showed them how, has learned to operate entirely according to the basic law: lie often, lie well, lie about your lies, and when called on it, call your opponent a liar about the very issues about which you're lying yourself. Confronted about the nastiness of your campaign? Claim your opponent's campaign is nasty, and that he's insulting your loyal fans who come to your outrageous rallies to shout the nastiness your own campaign ads have inspired--and act outraged yourself--though your opponent said nothing to insult your loyal fans except to point out that they're shouting he be killed! Confronted with your plan to keep on giving totally insupportable tax breaks to the wealthiest people and the biggest corporations? Keep claiming HE'S the one who'll be raising taxes, despite his plan to cut taxes for everyone who's not rich. Your opponent correctly points out that you've been running on a platform of deregulation for twenty-five years? Claim HE'S the one whose party caused the economic disaster by favoring irresponsible deregulation. If in doubt, claim he's a Tax and Spend Liberal (and that Jesus doesn't love him?). These lies are worn out. Reagonomics has finally driven a stake into its own fat black heart. Time for Bush to pack, Karl Rove to shut up, and the Republicans who have been running things so badly for so long to join the dust heap of history--to keep company with the dinosaurs they wanted to convince us weren't killed off by evolution, since evolution never happened. Finis. The fake rednecks have shot themselves in both feet and are hobbling away.
Posted by: lakotadee | October 16, 2008 11:37 AM | Report abuse
McCain has a new ad out today about being a fighter. He closes with the phrase of "Stand Up for America." As I recall that was George Wallace's exhortation to his crowds. Maybe McCain is more like Wallace than Bush.
Posted by: ejgallagher1 | October 16, 2008 11:26 AM | Report abuse
I am impressed take a look
Posted by: popasmoke | October 16, 2008 11:36 AM | Report abuse
jjedif -
What is wrong with someone living the American Dream? Do you NOT have a dream?
How many cars, houses or anything that is legal is actually none of our business. We only know his private life due to him being in politics -
Grow up - it OUGHT TO TELL YOU AND OTHERS LIKE YOU THAT McCAIN ISN'T IN POLITICS FOR THE MONEY SO LOOKS LIKE HIS NOT TAKING A WAR MARK IN 26 YEARS MEANS HE IS ACTUALLY TRYING TO HELP MAKE OUR COUNTRY BETTER, NOT TAKE MONEY MEANT FOR THE COMMUNITY AND FUNNEL IT INTO HIS WIFE;S COUSINS COMPANY LIKE OBAMA DID...
So don't hold living the American Dream against anyone. That is what we all live for....
Posted by: djmiller1 | October 16, 2008 11:36 AM | Report abuse
McCain looked positively geriatric, and I don't mean "elder statesman-like". He couldn't even put together a whole sentence without tripping on his own words, and his dentures seemed to be causing a lot of eSSSSSSSes to whiSSSSSSSSSSTLE on the microphone. Sad, really.
Posted by: alarico | October 16, 2008 11:35 AM | Report abuse
Hey Chris, I watch your commentary on MSNBC all the time, good job! As for the debate I would have to say Obama is now 3 and 0 while McCain is 0 for 3. Not only is Obama more articulate and vastly more intelligent he is significantly calmer, which is something we need in a President. Lastly, McCain is just too "nasty" I guess I just see him as very angry and he looks too old. I believe that the McCain of the past would have had much more appeal today. Just having been in a prison camp for 5 years in no way qualifies one to be president, in fact I don't beleave that anyone could survive that treatment and be "normal" the rest of his life (PTSD). I can't wait for President Obama to take office, and I also believe that the entire world is anxious as well. We need his calm demeanor and his ability to listen to all points of view. In closing let me just add that McCain's choice of Sarah Palin not only shows that he DOES NOT put country first, but is a total embarrassment to our political system.
Posted by: jhickey1 | October 16, 2008 11:35 AM | Report abuse
So before, lets say oil is $100 a barrel, and they sell 100 barrels a year.(not real numbers obviously)
Now they sell 50 barrels a year, and have to lower there prices to $50 a barrel to sell it.
Before it was $100X100=$10,000 a year.
Now it is $50X50= $2500 a year.
Oil companies stand to lose almost 75% of there profits if Obama is elected. Now you should understand why the oil companies are paying lobbyists millions of dollars a month to work closely with McCain.
Posted by: Independent4tw | October 16, 2008 11:17 AM | Report abuse
Oil companies have already said they have no interest in drilling for new oil. It will cost them at least $100.00 a barrel just to get it. Unless prices go back to $150.00 to or $200.00 a barrel they can't make any money. If they ever do drill, it will be the most expensive oil ever sold and we won't even get any of it. It will go on the open market and we will have to compete for it. This whole discussion is so ridiculous it is geared to people who don't have a clue. As long as it seems people will believe anything you tell them no matter how stupid, Mccain might as well start telling people he will be giving everybody free cars if he is elected
Posted by: popasmoke | October 16, 2008 11:32 AM | Report abuse
Sorry to reinforce a stereotype, but McCain really does come across like an irritable old man. You could see he wanted to reach across and smack Obama on more than one occasion. Obama, on the other hand, looks more and more presidential. Almost a Jackie Robinson feel -- no matter what you throw at him, he's not giving up and going home.
I'd be proud to have that guy as my President. McCain can go back to being a maverick in the Senate, and Palin can go learn to be a decent Governor.
Posted by: Samson151 | October 16, 2008 11:27 AM | Report abuse
McCain has a new ad out today about being a fighter. He closes with the phrase of "Stand Up for America." As I recall that was George Wallace's exhortation to his crowds. Maybe McCain is more like Wallace than Bush.
Posted by: ejgallagher1 | October 16, 2008 11:26 AM | Report abuse
To djmiller1
You are such a sucker and have bought into so many lies it is hard to believe. Then again, maybe it isn't.
Posted by: popasmoke | October 16, 2008 11:23 AM | Report abuse
McCain blew his last chance at impressing a sceptical electorate. He came off in the third debate as angry, scattered, intellectually sloppy or dishonest, and unsympathetic to the real issues that affect working women and middle class families.
McCain's unfortunate facial tics, scary sneer, eye-popping stare and rambling illogical sentances did him in.
He deeply offended most women with his sneering reference to "health" concerns for women who consider abortions. He failed spectacularly to denounce his own dangerous followers who resort to verbal threats against Obama. He rather sickeningly renewed his senseless attacks on a true American hero, John Lewis.
The obscure references to ACORN as a threat to our democracy were laughable. And how to describe the mindless repetition of the Bill Ayres trivia? Returning to this discredited nonsense was the nail in the coffin confirming just how desperate and unmoored McCain really is.
Obama seemed, as always, cool, confident, polite, and committed to discussing issues that directly interest and affect average Americans. In a word, Obama was presidential.
McCain was pathetic. I do not want to see him on my TV screen for the next three weeks and certainly not for the next four years.
Posted by: dee5 | October 16, 2008 11:23 AM | Report abuse
The Final Presidential Debate: First Thoughts and Who Won?
I would have to say that Obama won this debate also. Obama painted the picture of our country moving forward from every which way possible in the midst of these perilous times. He focused on every concern possible with a solid agenda to combat the reality of this troubled country. Together as Obama said "Yes We Can" accomplish this mission without a shadow of a doubt. McCain was once again into nic picking and posing more problems in the midst of our troubled crisis. McCain with the same needs to stage left because time is too critical and too short to continually be engaged in such a misfit of a character in such critical times as our country is in now.
Posted by: Nisey01 | October 16, 2008 11:21 AM | Report abuse
wpost4112: more on war
NO life is NOT a movie but yet if Obama is elected we will all wish it was. He is not fit to be a commander, he speaks bad about the military. I am not sure how you believe that someone who calls our brave soldiers murders is fit to lead them.
War is a horrible part of life. Obama has even said that he would be OK to stop genocide so where do you get off saying Iraq was wrong? We won the Iraqi war and the evil Sadam was hung and then we stayed to fight the War on Terror - so why don't you lay off the videos and get into the facts...We are fighting the Taliban not Iraq, we just happen to be there doing it, would you rather we fight them here or there??? Did you ever notice that when the 9-11 commission put most of the blame on the Clinton administration it was all but dropped from the news??? The Dems only want to blame, never take the blame.
We are a tolerant country to let anyone call our soldiers murders and still run for President. Of course everyone blames Pres Bush for everything...Do you actually know how a democratic government is run? The President cannot make the laws, he can ask for laws, but congress and the house has to approve it and most of our laws are done by congress, (Dems are always putting their ear marks in) then after they are approved by congress and the house then the President has the right to veto or approve - but our President is NOT a Dictator....then Dems are the Dictators as everyone with sense enough to THINK for theirselves knows - as you can see by your own writing you only know what they tell you. Learn about our government before you lay the blame.
We are a small business, with a semi...since the Dems took over office 2 years ago our fuel has went from 33% to over 50% of our gross...so now wonder why we are not boosting the economy right now.....our spending money has went to fuel, and the whole time I could see 3 out of every 5 oil wells sitting still because CONGRESS won't let anyone off their allotment, instead let OPEC rape the Americans and most of the rest of the world. Oh yea, let's don't drill either because God forbid our country might sell oil and make money.....So take your time and look up facts before you speak, did you even know that other countries put oil wells in the ocean right off our shores? There goes alot of American jobs and oil sales for our government right down the drain so that people like you can blame it on 1 person.
I for 1 would like to thank Pres Bush for keeping us safe, our soldiers for fighting!!!
PROUD TO BE A AMERICAN and if you aren't, many soldiers died for your right to say so and in my view you are FREE to pack your bags and move to another country and make sure you turn in your passport and citizenship. I sure haven't seen any do that...is it because you know that if you spoke out you would be shot???
Posted by: djmiller1 | October 16, 2008 11:19 AM | Report abuse
Senator Hillary Clinton lost the Presidential Primaries because ACCORN was behind Senator Obama. Senator Obama lied. His campaign paid over $800,000 to ACCORN.
NO Obama.
vote for real change
vote smart
vote McCain/Palin08
Hillary Clinton 2012
Posted by: mmarii | October 16, 2008 11:00 AM | Report abuse
Would you mind explaining how?
(I don't expect an answer by the way)
Also money paid to ACORN was for their services, do you think they work for free? Obama should be suing them to get his money back because he got ripped off.
Posted by: popasmoke | October 16, 2008 11:17 AM | Report abuse
McCain supported drilling because the oil campanies paid him $1.5 million.
Obama recieved $500,000 from everyday workers who worked at the banks, NOT FROM THE BANKS THEMSELVES.
Obama AND McCain both voted against seperate bills that included offshore drilling.
1) Obama voted against the version that would allow offshore drilling without any restraints.
2) McCain voted against the verson that would allow offshore drilling, but force oil companies to give back land that they were not useing. It also funded more alternative energy research.
McCain wants offshore drilling, within 3 miles of the coast, and he wants it without having to penalize the oil companies at all. AND he wants to give the oil companies more tax relief, because 16 BILLION dollars PROFIT a year isn't enough.
Please keep in mind that offshore drilling will reduce the price of gasoline by 5% or less. That is like 15 cents a gallon.
Obama's plan is to increase the efficiency of cars so that you have to buy gas half as much, and that will save you ALOT MORE MONEY.
You fill up once a week for $40.
McCains plan will save you 5%, so now you pay $38 dollars a week. Or a net savings of $8 a month.
Obama's plan will increase efficency so that you have to fill up once every two weeks, so now you pay $20 a week. Or a net savings of $80 a month.
Seems like Obama is ten times better then McCain.
Of course the Oil companies hate Obama's plan because there will be half of the demand for oil. Which means the price of oil will be roughly half of the price it is now.
So before, lets say oil is $100 a barrel, and they sell 100 barrels a year.(not real numbers obviously)
Now they sell 50 barrels a year, and have to lower there prices to $50 a barrel to sell it.
Before it was $100X100=$10,000 a year.
Now it is $50X50= $2500 a year.
Oil companies stand to lose almost 75% of there profits if Obama is elected. Now you should understand why the oil companies are paying lobbyists millions of dollars a month to work closely with McCain.
Posted by: Independent4tw | October 16, 2008 11:17 AM | Report abuse
Re t-shirts saying "Sarah Palin is a c@nt!": As that's what McCain called his wife in public, I gathered it was some kind of Republicrat sweet talk.
Posted by: RealCalGal | October 16, 2008 11:06 AM | Report abuse
I have a feeling that is why the choice of that word. They used a word Mccain would be familiar with.
Posted by: popasmoke | October 16, 2008 11:14 AM | Report abuse
RSaundersPA: I noticed that, too, probably because I received a transplant last year.
I think the spin is that he was talking about HAIR transplants but just bungled his talking point again. Still, I too heard just "transplant" and thought WTF!!
Posted by: RealCalGal | October 16, 2008 11:12 AM | Report abuse
What amazes me is how Reps continually use the war to declare dems bleeding heart liberals. What does the fact that our presence in Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11 mean to you? To ignore that fact to make a point or down an opposing view is scary. Accept that we aren't in Iraq because of 9/11.
ACORN is being thrown around continuously. The offense? Commissioned workers making up names to make more money. That actually sounds more like the republican way; however, it is an offense of individuals in the field and not the overall organization. If that's the best you've got, then what hope do american's have with McCain in office?
I enjoyed this debate more than the others because it gave the candidates an opportunity to respond to the charges, though McCain made most of them. Barak addressed each one, leaving McCain to either restate the inaccuracy or change the subject.
McCain's agitation and obvious lack of respect throughout the debates spoke highly of his personality and temperment. Face it, if you can't handle a disagreement and show some form of diplomacy and control with a man who only sits on the opposite side of political issues, what in the world will you do face to face with other countries who as McCain loves to say "don't like us very much"?
The matter of DC public schools showed where both candidates are out of touch. The voucher system isn't working. $1800 towards a tuition that can easily exceed 10K is nothing. Furthermore, the homeowners who pay the taxes to support the system are often ineligible to use the vouchers. When you consider that last year a school in DC was unable to open on the first day because they had no printer to print the schedules, vouchers aren't working. DC is trying, but definitely not successful.
Posted by: ddpearson3 | October 16, 2008 10:59 AM | Report abuse
Posted by: popasmoke | October 16, 2008 11:11 AM | Report abuse
What kind of experience matters most for the presidency?
Why does that experience matter the most?
Who do you consider to be the most successful presidents in U.S. history? What made them successful?
Final question: As a president George W. Bush has been _______.
A. a great president.
B. on balance a pretty good president.
C. an average president.
D. among the worst presidents in U.S. history.
E. The worst president in U.S. history.
Any answer that is "C or above" requires an explanation.
Posted by: JPRS | October 16, 2008 11:10 AM | Report abuse
rabble rabble DRILL rabble JOE SIX PACK rabble rabble rabble rabble TAKE YER GUNS rabble rabble RAISE TAXES rabble COMMUNIST rabble TERRORIST rabble rabble rabble MIDDLE CLASS rabble MAIN STREET rabble rabble CRISIS RABBLE!!!
Posted by: JohnnyREP | October 16, 2008 11:09 AM | Report abuse
Re t-shirts saying "Sarah Palin is a c@nt!": As that's what McCain called his wife in public, I gathered it was some kind of Republicrat sweet talk.
Posted by: RealCalGal | October 16, 2008 11:06 AM | Report abuse
Well, CCR1 sure has the right-wing Xtian nutcase talking points down. "I still don't know if he's Muslim ..."
Come ON. He was castigated for months because of his radical CHRISTIAN pastor and you STILL think he might be MUSLIM?
Jeebus Crike on a corncake. Are you people just that DUMB or is it some deep seated racism that equates something his PARENTS named him with something YOU HATE because he looks different that YOU DO?
Posted by: RealCalGal | October 16, 2008 11:03 AM | Report abuse
"I still don't know if he's Muslim and has some unseen ties to anyone radical in that regard."
That's because you are a racist.
Posted by: DDAWD | October 16, 2008 11:02 AM | Report abuse
Senator Hillary Clinton lost the Presidential Primaries because ACCORN was behind Senator Obama. Senator Obama lied. His campaign paid over $800,000 to ACCORN.
NO Obama.
vote for real change
vote smart
vote McCain/Palin08
Hillary Clinton 2012
Posted by: mmarii | October 16, 2008 11:00 AM | Report abuse
What amazes me is how Reps continually use the war to declare dems bleeding heart liberals. What does the fact that our presence in Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11 mean to you? To ignore that fact to make a point or down an opposing view is scary. Accept that we aren't in Iraq because of 9/11.
ACORN is being thrown around continuously. The offense? Commissioned workers making up names to make more money. That actually sounds more like the republican way; however, it is an offense of individuals in the field and not the overall organization. If that's the best you've got, then what hope do american's have with McCain in office?
I enjoyed this debate more than the others because it gave the candidates an opportunity to respond to the charges, though McCain made most of them. Barak addressed each one, leaving McCain to either restate the inaccuracy or change the subject.
McCain's agitation and obvious lack of respect throughout the debates spoke highly of his personality and temperment. Face it, if you can't handle a disagreement and show some form of diplomacy and control with a man who only sits on the opposite side of political issues, what in the world will you do face to face with other countries who as McCain loves to say "don't like us very much"?
The matter of DC public schools showed where both candidates are out of touch. The voucher system isn't working. $1800 towards a tuition that can easily exceed 10K is nothing. Furthermore, the homeowners who pay the taxes to support the system are often ineligible to use the vouchers. When you consider that last year a school in DC was unable to open on the first day because they had no printer to print the schedules, vouchers aren't working. DC is trying, but definitely not successful.
Posted by: ddpearson3 | October 16, 2008 10:59 AM | Report abuse
Overall, I think the press is tied into the youth in this country and are supporting candidates. It's evident from the articles I read. I can't understand how Obama has got this far. He's too inexperienced, hasn't done much in the way of helping this nation and I still don't know if he's Muslim and has some unseen ties to anyone radical in that regard. While we have opened our doors to all for freedom, this country was based on Christian morals, ideals and GOD. Obama seems to slick, and with no heavy duty experience. Yet children all over America are mesmerized and hypnotized by him. His youth, well sorry folks but as you age you always look back and see some of the great blunders of your youth. For this new generation, voting for Obama may be something they live to truly regret.
Posted by: CCR1 | October 16, 2008 10:54 AM | Report abuse
That is just a complete lie. Security is vert tight at Obama rallies and no one could ever get in with one of those shirts. Ublike Mccain rallies where people wave signs that sat "Terrorist: and "Traitor" "Obama bin ladin". Mccain condones it and may even encourage it. Those signs look very professionally made.
The shirts age just someone trying to make a few bucks.
The media, including the post, has been reporting lately about the things being said at McCain political events;however, they have said nothing, nada, about the T-shirts Obamistas have been wearing to their rallies: "Sarah Palin is a c@nt!" these T-shirts have been sold in the Obama campaign website. For pics and vid of this, check my blog:
Posted by: dcpsychic | October 16, 2008 10:39 AM | Report abuse
Posted by: popasmoke | October 16, 2008 10:49 AM | Report abuse
Someone said:
"A sneaky way to weed out illegal aliens and prevent them from working or using hospitals."
Why wouldn't we wanna weed out illegal aliens? I'm a socialist and an immigrant to thi country. I know pluses and minuses of immigration intimately.
The illegal immigration situation is a totally artificial creation in America, by the collusion of corporate interests and their friends in Congress and the White House. It's been allowed to happen so as to put severe downward pressure on the wages of working American citizens, IN ADDITION TO LEGAL IMMIGRATION, which has a similar effect.
Instead of investing in its own people, instead of encouraging healthy population growth inside America through family-friendly legislation, America just lets its own people wilt and imports
foreign labor instead. It's cheap, it requires no messy paternalism, and it's not like these "refuse of the foreign shore" is gonna move to Greenwich, CT or Kennebunkport, ME any time soon
Posted by: VMR1 | October 16, 2008 10:46 AM | Report abuse
Life is not a movie. If you cannot understand why Bush is responsible for the state of the country, there is little anyone can do to educate you.
Ease up on DVD watching and connect to real life. Bush's invasion of Iraq was completely unnecessary and has completely de-stabilized the region
Whether or not you take me seriously is up to you. But I do my research and that is why I am posting. The movie was based on a true story, by the way. I guess you didn't know that. As to Bush being the cause of the 'state of the country' and doing my research, you are about to elect a guy to President from the very party who is responsible for the current economic crisis. My research has led me to 1977 and Jimmy Carter's (a Democrat) Community Reinvestment Act and subsequent legislation and efforts by Democrats to protect that legislation FORCING BANKS to give risky loans to borrowers. I noticed that in yesterday's Post article about this, the author conveniently left out this part in the tale. Might it have something to do with the upcoming election?
You Dems like the possibility of a depression? Hmm? Yeah, go ahead and elect your guy. If it had been Congressional Republicans responsible, the hearings would have already started with indictments close on their heels.
Posted by: daveblack587 | October 16, 2008 10:46 AM | Report abuse
Yes, I understand what you are saying. But the simple truth is that we were attacked by people who were and are the most extreme in their self-righteous ideology, fundamentalist Islam. At least we can't fault them for being pure and true to their faith and the Qu'ran. Right? But ours is not their ideolgy in our country. Do all of you REALLY want to be Muslims? Because the last time I checked, these folks aren't IN to democracy! It's not like we would have a choice in the matter. Unless jail, amputations, torture and death are a choice? Yeah, war sucks. But given the choice between global terrorism, the possibility of Sharia(sp?) Law in America and a CHANCE of creating a democracy in that region that can WORK, I'll take the latter, thank you. So, while I have always thought it ambitious, I support Bush's plan.
Posted by: daveblack587 | October 16, 2008 10:27 AM | Report abuse
The real problem is, if you are interested in terrorism. Al-Qaeda operates in like 180 countries the least of which is Iraq. Iraq has actually made it almost impossible for us to really go after the terrorists. They are now free to do as they like as we are bogged down in Iraq. And make no mistake, we have only not had anything happen only because they have no interest in doing so. We have not even had someone walk into a store in the US and blow up a bunch of people. They can do that anytime they want, they don't want to. Fear of terrorism in the US is a boogie man that has been created by the Bush administration to give them free range to do what they want.
We have seen this before
" You saw that republican convention, it looked like a gathering of the Nazi party. Signs with "Country first" and all the speeches in the effect of "You are either with us or you are not real americans or patriots"
Another good quote from the Nazi's that applies to the republicans is:
"…it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship. … All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger."
- Hermann Goering, founder of the Gestapo and one of the main architects of Nazi Germany.
See anything familiar?
Posted by: popasmoke | October 16, 2008 10:43 AM | Report abuse
"The media, including the post, has been reporting lately about the things being said at McCain political events;however, they have said nothing, nada, about the T-shirts Obamistas have been wearing to their rallies: "Sarah Palin is a c@nt!" these T-shirts have been sold in the Obama campaign website. For pics and vid of this, check my blog:"
Ok, raise your hand if you ACTUALLY believe the Obama website is selling this shirt.
Posted by: DDAWD | October 16, 2008 10:42 AM | Report abuse
"The fact that Sen. McCain scored so effectively with his reminder that he is not George Bush ought to tell us something about how ineffective Obama's campaign has been in linking the Republican candidate with the extremely unpopular Republican President."
A lot of the pundits liked that line about him not being Bush, but I think Obama ended up with the advantage. It allowed him to say, "yes, you are like Bush. This is why..."
Posted by: DDAWD | October 16, 2008 10:39 AM | Report abuse
The media, including the post, has been reporting lately about the things being said at McCain political events;however, they have said nothing, nada, about the T-shirts Obamistas have been wearing to their rallies: "Sarah Palin is a c@nt!" these T-shirts have been sold in the Obama campaign website. For pics and vid of this, check my blog:
Posted by: dcpsychic | October 16, 2008 10:39 AM | Report abuse
teshia: yes McCain is serious about teacher's not having certifications. Check out all the schools around..In AR, you can teach with a high school degree - in MO you can sub with only partial collage credits. Don't know about other states but you might want to wake up and check out some.
Posted by: djmiller1 | October 16, 2008 10:37 AM | Report abuse
To paraphrase daveblack587: Are we as Americans THIS shallow??? I mean, I know you Repubs want your guys to win. But aren't you the least bit concerned about who this guy, John McCain really is? What will his positions be today? Who taught him? What are his beliefs? Really? Why doesn't it bother you that he is closely associated with criminals? Don't you realize that if a Democratic candidate had McCain's resume he would be labeled as a hack who got captured in Viet Nam so he could further his political aspirations??
Understand your argument, but I believe you had a guy with that very same problem and ALOT of guys had something to say about it, eh? Dare we name him? Kerry? But MY argument that you replied to was that Satan himself would be covered favorably by the press AS LONG AS he were a liberal Democrat. Come on, admit it! You guys can get away with murder with the Post, LA and NY Times, CNN CBS, NBC, ABC, etc. all covering for your guy! But if it is a Republican?? FIRE!! That's all I'm saying. And what's more, all I'm saying is that you Dems are SO zealous to elect this guy Pres., but I'm not sure you are all thinking this through. Look, I would vote for him if I thought he were the best candidate. But in the world we are living in, it is just too unwise.
Posted by: daveblack587 | October 16, 2008 10:35 AM | Report abuse
There was one line during the debate that I have not seen commented upon, but I found shocking. When talking about health care, Sen McCain lumped transplant surgery together with cosmetic surgery as something that was too expensive and wasteful. I find that really "out of touch".
Posted by: RSaundersPA | October 16, 2008 10:35 AM | Report abuse
government paid abortions!
Taxing corporations until
we lose more jobs and more
tax base.
there will be no middle class
with obama and pelosi'
Posted by: USA3 | October 16, 2008 10:35 AM | Report abuse
To continue about war...
Has anyone ever seen Tears of the Sun starring Bruce Willis? How many of you, if you were in this man's place would have walked away and let those people be slaughtered?
Life is not a movie. If you cannot understand why Bush is responsible for the state of the country, there is little anyone can do to educate you.
Ease up on DVD watching and connect to real life. Bush's invasion of Iraq was completely unnecessary and has completely de-stabilized the region.
Given Obama's brilliant strategy in his Presidential campaign, I have no doubt that he will be a brilliant commander in chief.
Obama has said from the very beginning that he has no problem with going to war to defend the USA, he does have a problem with a bad and unnecessary war.
Do your research if you want to be taken seriously.
Posted by: wpost4112 | October 16, 2008 10:35 AM | Report abuse
Senator Government knows what is best for you....
Posted by: USA3 | October 16, 2008 10:34 AM | Report abuse
If a small tax increase will cause your business to collapse then there's something wrong with your folks' business model. Maybe your parents shouldn't own daycare but buy a laundromat instead.
Children are too important to entrust to small-time business people trying to make a buck.
Free or affordable daycare should be a parental right and social prerogative, like in Sweden or Denmark. Ya gotta put your money where your mouth is. If you're pro-life and pro-family then you have to support lives and families. Give women at least 6 months of partially paid maternity leave. Make sure that ALL babies that are actually born have adequate health insurance, nutrition. Require that all large employers (500 employees or more) have a professionally-run kindergarten on the premises or nearby. The money can come from reducing executive salaries and perks across the board.
Posted by: VMR1 | October 16, 2008 10:31 AM | Report abuse
To continue about war...
Has anyone ever seen Tears of the Sun starring Bruce Willis? How many of you, if you were in this man's place would have walked away and let those people be slaughtered? Be honest! Those of you who REALLY believe in Obama, that he has some magical quality to 'bring people together', what would you do? Those of you who hate war for any reason, what would you have done? Try to talk to those who were murdering those villagers? I don't think you would have made it 20 steps before they piled your dead carcasses on top of the other Nigerians they were slaughtering. Oh, and another thing, to look at me you would say that I am a typical white guy, probably likes his beer and maybe even a little on the redneck side, but I tell you I would have FOUGHT for those black Nigerians as if they were my own family. NO ONE deserves what was being done to them! Those Navy Seals were heroes. They did the right thing. And so did your hated President Bush when he took the fight to those Muslim thugs and cut throat murderers when he went to war against them in Afghanistan and Iraq. Do you REALLY believe that Obama would have done the same? Do you? Think about it for a while. Think about it.
Posted by: daveblack587 | October 16, 2008 10:19 AM | Report abuse
I would hope Obama, Unlike Bush, would go after the people who were really responsible.
Posted by: popasmoke | October 16, 2008 10:28 AM | Report abuse
Yes, I understand what you are saying. But the simple truth is that we were attacked by people who were and are the most extreme in their self-righteous ideology, fundamentalist Islam. At least we can't fault them for being pure and true to their faith and the Qu'ran. Right? But ours is not their ideolgy in our country. Do all of you REALLY want to be Muslims? Because the last time I checked, these folks aren't IN to democracy! It's not like we would have a choice in the matter. Unless jail, amputations, torture and death are a choice? Yeah, war sucks. But given the choice between global terrorism, the possibility of Sharia(sp?) Law in America and a CHANCE of creating a democracy in that region that can WORK, I'll take the latter, thank you. So, while I have always thought it ambitious, I support Bush's plan.
Posted by: daveblack587 | October 16, 2008 10:27 AM | Report abuse
McCain had such a look of disdain on his face. The smirks, the look (as another poster said) that he's about to blow a gasket, the comment that he's proud of his supporters, they all add up to me disliking him more and more. He attributes the flyover-country nutcases he's got Palin pulling in (those saying "kill him" and "off w/ his head" about Barack) to being on the "fringe", but he didn't exclude them from his "I'm proud of my supporters" comments. I also loved his comment about helping women w/ unplanned pregnancies with adoption. Great, but you're forcing them to continue a pregnancy that they didn't plan and which may be bad for their "health" (his air-quotes, not mine). I've had 3 kids. My 2nd and 3rd pregnancies were horrible on me physically (many complications), but I went through them because my husband and I wanted kids so badly. I watched my 2nd child die at 5 weeks of age from an undiagnosed congenital heart condition. Her only chance at a longer life would have been a heart transplant. My little girl lived her entire life in pain. Would I have put my daughter, myself, and my family through that if we'd known about our daughter's heart condition before she was born? I don't know -- she did have an incredible impact on us in the short time she was with us -- but I'd never force any other woman and her family to experience the incredible pain of watching their child die. John McCain would force that on women.
Posted by: carusocm | October 16, 2008 10:26 AM | Report abuse
To paraphrase daveblack587: Are we as Americans THIS shallow??? I mean, I know you Repubs want your guys to win. But aren't you the least bit concerned about who this guy, John McCain really is? What will his positions be today? Who taught him? What are his beliefs? Really? Why doesn't it bother you that he is closely associated with criminals? Don't you realize that if a Democratic candidate had McCain's resume he would be labeled as a hack who got captured in Viet Nam so he could further his political aspirations??
Posted by: Left_of_the_Pyle | October 16, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse
Sen. Obama is probably fortunate that the financial markets' crisis and looming recession emerged when they did.
The fact that Sen. McCain scored so effectively with his reminder that he is not George Bush ought to tell us something about how ineffective Obama's campaign has been in linking the Republican candidate with the extremely unpopular Republican President. That linkage exists in voters' minds, but this year it would exist anyway. Obama, with his rehearsed repetition of stylized, bloodless campaign language about "the failed policies of the last eight years," hasn't added to it at all.
Were the economy -- the No. 1 issue for the largest number of voters -- not careening toward a precipice right now, this failing on the part of Obama and his campaign would have left him in serious trouble.
Posted by: jbritt3 | October 16, 2008 10:24 AM | Report abuse
The Obama campaign has already jumped on the "I'm not George Bush" line. They have a commercial out starting with clip, followed by a litany of how McCain stands right with the Bush policies, especially on economic issues. They also make skewering use of clips of McCain's smirks, grimaces, etc. from the debate to further chip away at his image.
Posted by: paulimse | October 16, 2008 10:23 AM | Report abuse
Posted by: popasmoke | October 16, 2008 10:20 AM | Report abuse
To continue about war...
Has anyone ever seen Tears of the Sun starring Bruce Willis? How many of you, if you were in this man's place would have walked away and let those people be slaughtered? Be honest! Those of you who REALLY believe in Obama, that he has some magical quality to 'bring people together', what would you do? Those of you who hate war for any reason, what would you have done? Try to talk to those who were murdering those villagers? I don't think you would have made it 20 steps before they piled your dead carcasses on top of the other Nigerians they were slaughtering. Oh, and another thing, to look at me you would say that I am a typical white guy, probably likes his beer and maybe even a little on the redneck side, but I tell you I would have FOUGHT for those black Nigerians as if they were my own family. NO ONE deserves what was being done to them! Those Navy Seals were heroes. They did the right thing. And so did your hated President Bush when he took the fight to those Muslim thugs and cut throat murderers when he went to war against them in Afghanistan and Iraq. Do you REALLY believe that Obama would have done the same? Do you? Think about it for a while. Think about it.
Posted by: daveblack587 | October 16, 2008 10:19 AM | Report abuse
We were not attacked on 9/11. A group of men committed an act that had results that were extreme. We were not attacked by another country. Those men have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams because of the over reaction to what these very few men did. They have changed our country as well as he world forever and we were duped by our own government..
I want to deal philosophically with why people like Obama and want him to take the presidency. For the past eight years we have had Bush as president. And for most of that time we have been fighting a war in Iraq and in the Middle East, in general. What amazes me to no end is how Democrats, albeit they want to win elections, will blast Bush for everything under the sun, but don't seem to want to blast those who attacked us on September 11, 2001. My father and mother, staunch liberals, are like this. They seem to have, like many others, this air of superior morality that war, violence of any kind is marally intollerable and that there is NEVER a reason to fight back. I honestly believe this is at the HEART of why Bush is so hated. Things are actually going very well in Iraq right now. The insurgency has been brought under control and these people may just have a chance at having their own government and live in peace without bowing to a tyrant. What is so wrong with that? This is a failure for Bush? More to come...
Posted by: daveblack587 | October 16, 2008 10:09 AM | Report abuse
Posted by: popasmoke | October 16, 2008 10:18 AM | Report abuse
Obama extols moral equivalency: he sees no difference between a struggling liberal democracy in Columbia and the dictatorship of Hugo Chavez. McCain would avoid war by being strong; and Obama invites war by being naïve and unprincipled..
Posted by: pat41 | October 16, 2008 10:17 AM | Report abuse
I want to deal philosophically with why people like Obama and want him to take the presidency. For the past eight years we have had Bush as president. And for most of that time we have been fighting a war in Iraq and in the Middle East, in general. What amazes me to no end is how Democrats, albeit they want to win elections, will blast Bush for everything under the sun, but don't seem to want to blast those who attacked us on September 11, 2001. My father and mother, staunch liberals, are like this. They seem to have, like many others, this air of superior morality that war, violence of any kind is marally intollerable and that there is NEVER a reason to fight back. I honestly believe this is at the HEART of why Bush is so hated. Things are actually going very well in Iraq right now. The insurgency has been brought under control and these people may just have a chance at having their own government and live in peace without bowing to a tyrant. What is so wrong with that? This is a failure for Bush? More to come...
Posted by: daveblack587 | October 16, 2008 10:09 AM | Report abuse
So McCain is totally unconcerned with 'the health of the mother?' As a woman, I find that really reassuring. Is there anyone this man DOES care about, besides fetuses?
Posted by: drindl | October 16, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse
I think this was one of McCain's better debates. However Obama really while being put on the defensive maintained his cool. McCains's responses and actions spoke louder than words. We will give him one for that I'm not President Bush remark. Duh we know that but like Obama said many of your policies(from what we know are about President Bush). Is this a preview of how McCain would act under pressure and in a crisis? Do you want someone who can maintain their cool in a crisis or someone who will react with anger,and indecisiveness.
McCain could only use the old republican scare tactics of taxes. Well he only said he would raise taxes on individuals making more than 250,000. Well how many Americans have the type of income.
It is not a share the wealth thing. It is pay your fair share of the taxes. It is not fair that the wealthy get more tax breaks than the working middle class. Obama is just trying to even the playing field.
What is 3% to the wealthy? Probably a drop in a hat to most. Period. You will still have plenty of your money left. After all ,most of your economies are still going well. Especially McCain's.
Some else here posted that people saying Obama is a Socialist needs to get off it. I agree. I don't even think you all know what a socialist is no more than an elitist. Being that you all have accused Obama for being both of them.
Joe the Plummer- Nice try. It may have made your base and FOX news go- Good one John. You got him with that one. Not the race changer people were hoping for. Now thanks to you John McCain this man is getting media attention I don't think we wants. I would not be surprised if we see him in your campaign ads.
You and Sarah Palin seem to be stuck on Joes. Joe the Plummer , Joe Six Pack. Is this your poor attempt to relate to the every day working person.
I think we all know who Joe the Plummer is going to vote for. I think Joe the Plummer has been a card carrying GOP all along. However he did encourage people to vote their own mind. Not vote like one way because your granddaddy did or because your employer scares you into ( WALMART) or because your Union tells you to. I do agree with that. You have to vote for who you think is best.
Obama maintained focus on the issues. McCain attacked Obama.
That Ayers thing- backfired on McCain. Now you all can shut up because he spoke the truth about it and the ACORn issue. Obama failed to mention that you too spoke at a ACORN function. Does that make you a supporter. NO!
This was not a game changer. There is still 3 weeks to go. I would not relax Obama until the votes are counted and you are declared the winner without any contests. The GOP plays dirty and they are not done yet.
I was decided before watching this debate and I look forward to being able to early vote for Senator Obama in my state.
Posted by: bjlopez1130 | October 16, 2008 10:08 AM | Report abuse
John McCain may or may not have won as a debater last night. However, Barack Obama has definitely won by a wide margin as a presidential contender. Obama came across as thoughtful, respectful, clear, compassionate, poised and presidential. McCain came across as impatient, negative, inconsistent and uncompassionate. His responses on education (teachers don't need to be trained?), abortion (making an exception for the woman's health is not defensible?) and health care (just throw in some money; who cares if the problems will be solved) were particularly troubling. He tried to use Joe the plumber to accuse Obama of trying to push for a socialist agenda. It didn't work for me. First, what Obama is trying to achieve, obviously, is "equal opportunity", one of the main pillars of our American dream. Second, McCain didn't seem to realize that his plan to bail out both the banks and the Main Street owners was actually extremely wasteful and irresponsible. In short, he impressed me as one who rhetorically sticks to a small government theme but wouldn't mind spending like crazy on wars and problems if they pop up. Erratic is really an apt description of his governing style.
Posted by: ChrisL1 | October 16, 2008 10:07 AM | Report abuse
When asked if Palin was fit to be president, Obama simply said that the American people would decide that. He had an opportunity to attack and did not.
When McCain was asked if Biden was fit to be president he praised Palin (that was not his question) and then went on to attack Senator Biden.
I thought this to be a huge contrast but have not heard one person discussing it. I have heard some chatter about Obama's response and McCains praise of Palin. But no one mentioned how he tore into Joe (the non-plumber).
My wife was in the room but not really paying attention to the debate and she even made a comment on how nasty the attack on Biden came across.
Posted by: Maxwell_Smart | October 16, 2008 10:06 AM | Report abuse
Isn't anyone concerned about mandatory health care for every American, which will also be tracked in one database? A sneaky way to weed out illegal aliens and prevent them from working or using hospitals. Sorry, did that blow your mind?
Posted by: pat41 | October 16, 2008 10:05 AM | Report abuse
Some thoughts regarding Joe the Plumber:
1. Have you seen your recent plumbing bill?
Yes, Joe the Plumber charged me $270 for the 40 minutes he spent replacing the "elbow" section of my punctured kitchen sink drain pipe. I'm lucky to have a decent job where I would've made about $35
for the same 40 minutes. And I have a master's degree vs. Joe's trade school
2. When I pickup my wife from work I go through a fancy neighborhood where many of the NY Mets players have houses. But whaddaya know - there's the Joe the Plumber's stucco McMansion right there too. You know, with the saints in the front yard and two small granite lions guarding the entrance, his Hummer (Joe is a super-patriot, you see) and his wife's Lexus 460 (she's a big patriot too) plastered with "Support our Troops", "These Colors Don't Run", and "McCain/Palin" stickers. Only "In God We Trust" is missing. But I'm sure they keep plenty of green stickers with that inscription in their wallets.
2. Joe' two girls attend a local Catholic parochial school and like to try on their mother's entire wardrobe while she's still out at the salon where she hangs out daily with the ballplayers' wives. Joe's
older son just finished Catholic High School and is a total "pazzo", acc. to Joe's own admission because he smokes pot and plays video games all day long.
3. Do you think if Joe the Plumber's - the one I know - income tax goes up by 5% he'd be forced to sell his Hummer or his McMansion, or he'd go out of business, or his wife would divorce him? Do you think Jesus would've taxed him more? I really think he would. Do you think Mary (of the immaculate conception fame and whose statue Joe proudly displays on his front lawn) would've taxed him more? I think she would have.
To paraphrase Rudy Giuliani: John McCain - wrong on Joe the Plumber, wrong for the country!
Posted by: VMR1 | October 16, 2008 10:02 AM | Report abuse
Business' pay taxes on profits, not gross income. So your business would have to make a profit of over $250,000 a year before Obama's plan raises your taxes. At a nice, healthy 10% profit, that means revenues of around $2.5 million.
I loved the way McCain waved a magic wand at Joe, made him rich, and then "fined" him! That was hilarious. "Joe, you're rich"... dude Joe is working his ass off.
Maybe Joe is the kind of guy, when he has a $2.5 million dollar business, doesn't want to give health insurance benefits to his employees (or like Walmart, an even bigger business). I have no problem with making them kick some money in so their employees can then purchase health insurance.
There are more than 45 million Americans without health insurance. 80% of them are in working families. They don't pay $5000 in taxes because they're too poor. McCain's plan does N O T H I N G for those people. Obama's will provide them with an affordable option to buy health insurance.
McCain doesn't want to raise anybody's taxes? We have a $450 billion dollar deficit. There is no way we can get out of that without raising taxes. Palin said that McCain will balance the budget before the end of his first term. McCain did not make that promise last night, guess he should go consult with Caribou Barbie on his economic plan.
McCain's lost. He was a whiny, complaining, angry old man last night.
Posted by: dpc2003 | October 16, 2008 10:01 AM | Report abuse
I know that anyone can post here, so its not like we are experts or anything, but, folks, we are Americans and we should be better than this. Has anyone here ever heard of the Lincoln (Abraham) Douglas debates? There was no TV, no radio, no Internet. The debates lasted for HOURS. Now that is how you get into SUBSTANCE! Most of the comments I read here have NOTHING to do with debating. They are more about partisanship or hating Bush or who LOOKED better, who COMPOSED himself better. Are we as Americans THIS shallow??? I mean, I know you Dems want your guys to win. But aren't you the least bit concerned about who this guy, Barak Obama really is? What are his roots? Who taught him? What are his beliefs? Really? Why doesn't it bother you that he is closely associated with criminals? Don't you realize that if a Republican candidate had Obama's resume he would be tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail?? Are you all so ready to install this man based on some shred of hope that he can 'change the world' and make it a 'better place' and appease the Muslims and stop all wars, etc., etc.? I really think you Dems need to stop and think about what you are doing. Is it worth it to vote on a wing and a prayer that this guy will be all you hope?
Posted by: daveblack587 | October 16, 2008 9:59 AM | Report abuse
Does anybody in the media undestand the difference between revenues (sales) and income (the profit, both pre-tax and net, which is after tax)? Joe the plumber apparently doesn't understand either. If he has a few plumbers at $50K per year, plus benefits, Social Security, Medicare and workers comp payments, plus trucks, tools, support helpers, materials (valves, pie, joints, solder, etc.) on each job, sign lettering on trucks, gloves, estimators (and you only win 50% of the jobs you bid), then you deduct the costs from the revenues/sales to get to the pre-tax income, which should also include deductions for depreciation, overhead costs (insurance, licenses, insurance, office space, healthcare, liability insurance, etc.) No way Joe even understands the difference between revenues and taxable income, nor earns $250K pre-tax. So what, very few journalists understand this basic business concept either, so America goes un informed and Joe impacts the election in some small way.
Posted by: enough3 | October 16, 2008 9:57 AM | Report abuse
Last night I thought Joe the plumber may have been a McCain campaign plant, after seeing the video this morning on the Today Show I know he was. Why does the media give this guy, who obviously follwed a script, all this attention?
We're not fools Mr McCain.
Posted by: SW-DCWaterfront | October 16, 2008 9:57 AM | Report abuse
How can anyone who claims to be Pro-Life be so quick to go to war? Don't they realize that by going to war we are definitely signing someone's death warrant?
Posted by: tazzyjs | October 16, 2008 9:53 AM | Report abuse
I think that it is rediculous that hundreds of thousands of pro life christians vote red in every election because people like bush and mccain say that they are pro life too. The war mongering, "pro life" Bush has been in office for eight years now, 6 of those years with a republican majority in congress and a 5-4 conservative edge in the supreme court. Can anyone out there who voted for bush based on abortion find one example of him doing, or even trying to do something about it? I think that while the republicans speak out against abortion every election cycle they dont really want to change the law on it because it will cause the pro lifers out there to vote based on other issues - like their own best interests, in which case they vote blue.
So all of the anti abortion voters out there please wake up and stop wasting your votes. You may have voted red for the past 8 years "for the babies", but abortion is still as legal as being christian, only you and your family are probably in a lot worse shape than you would have been if you had someone in office fighting fot you.
Posted by: sadie45 | October 16, 2008 9:40 AM | Report abuse
Some of Mccains & Palins followers. Amazing. These people should not even be allowed to vote they are so stupid
Posted by: popasmoke | October 16, 2008 9:47 AM | Report abuse
to lvtoplay9:
What is a bubble up and why would Sharpton and Jackson be at the White House?
to those accusing Obama of being Muslim:
How do you treat Arab born Americans? You are spewing the word Muslim like an insult (btw Obama is a Christian) so I wonder how do these same people treat Jews, Native Americans, Asian born Americans and so forth.
I really respect John McCain's service to this country, but his choice of Palin is what drew me away from him. Hands down. She does not give the air of trust. And the reality is that if Obama wins and God forbid passes away, we would be okay with Biden as President, but if McCain were to fall ill or God forbid pass away, we would not be well with Palin as President.
I further agree with the commentor who stated that the candidates should reveal their medications. They are, after all, running for the highest office in the land.
Posted by: lr9ark | October 16, 2008 9:43 AM | Report abuse
And is America really so dumb to see how Obama's tax plan will hurt small businesses? My parents own daycares. They have gone into debt trying to keep them running, and two of the three make over $250,000. My parents cannot afford higher taxes on those two businesses; they are having a hard enough time as it is keeping their heads above water, due to the fact that democrats, like Obama, want to get rid of perfectly good learning daycare centers to replace them with Head Start and other programs. Head Start is not the only option, and it has not been proven that Head Start students are any better off than other students. A good daycare prepares young children by teaching them social skills, coloring, cutting, pasting, handwriting, etc.
Some people are so blind to the ills of the Obama campaign, and it scares me to death.
Posted by: mzamberk | October 16, 2008 9:37 AM | Report abuse
Your parents have two day care centers netting $250,000 each for a combined net on $500,000.000 and they can't keep their heads above water? Am I missing something here? Do you at all understand the difference between gross and net?
Posted by: popasmoke | October 16, 2008 9:43 AM | Report abuse
The abortion debate might be a big issue to move independent women to Obama. When McCain used air quotes for "health of the mother", that offends a lot of women. Even women who are lean pro-life find that barbaric. That is not a far-left view, that is a straight down the middle of the road view. Many women will be turned off by that, and that could be a death nail for McCain's chances with millions of women.
Posted by: vahawk1 | October 16, 2008 9:42 AM | Report abuse
Research the Troops to Teachers program
to see what McCain was referring to. They aren't "assigned", schools still have to hire them. They don't just "come back" from service and start teaching.
Posted by: pat41 | October 16, 2008 9:40 AM | Report abuse
I think that it is rediculous that hundreds of thousands of pro life christians vote red in every election because people like bush and mccain say that they are pro life too. The war mongering, "pro life" Bush has been in office for eight years now, 6 of those years with a republican majority in congress and a 5-4 conservative edge in the supreme court. Can anyone out there who voted for bush based on abortion find one example of him doing, or even trying to do something about it? I think that while the republicans speak out against abortion every election cycle they dont really want to change the law on it because it will cause the pro lifers out there to vote based on other issues - like their own best interests, in which case they vote blue.
So all of the anti abortion voters out there please wake up and stop wasting your votes. You may have voted red for the past 8 years "for the babies", but abortion is still as legal as being christian, only you and your family are probably in a lot worse shape than you would have been if you had someone in office fighting fot you.
Posted by: sadie45 | October 16, 2008 9:40 AM | Report abuse
How sad it is to see what McCain has become. I used to beleive he was an honorable man, now all I see is a shell, a man driven by ambition and entitlement, who will clearly do or say anything to realize his political ambitions, the office he thinks he deserves. Despite the fact that he lacks the temperment or the ability to lead, or an understanding of the world today. He lives in the distant past and cannot even comprehend the modern world.
And I am saddened by how profoundly either dishonest or simply braindead most of the R posters here seem to be. The world can be crumbling around their ears, and all they can do is squawk lies about Obama, nonsense about taxes or citizenship, just utter nonsense. Really, what happened to this party? Where did all the intelligent Republicans disappear to? I guess they're all Democrats now.
And I have to agree with others, that McCain and Palin are going to get somebody killed, unleash some real violence, with their embrace of this over the top rhetoric at their rallies.
But they don't really care about America. Only their own selfish and bottomless ambition and greed.
Posted by: drindl | October 16, 2008 9:39 AM | Report abuse
It seemed to me, yet I haven't read much about this (for this debate), that McCain's attacks and his citations of Obama's record and positions were remarkably inaccurate. Doesn't he have anyone fact check his arguments? Did anyone else notice this or is it just me? In addition, McCain's position statements were usually so absurdly vague, and he would just say "I can fix this. I can do this. I know how to do it." Without actually saying how he would actually do it... absurdity. I really felt like McCain has turned into some crazy old man who was just ranting way at the kid down the street. Did anyone else notice this? I seriously think McCain is suffering from... well... old age. Does he not remember that every single one of his positions contradicts something he used to stand for? Seriously - that guy has lost some of his marbles.
Posted by: beersquirrel | October 16, 2008 9:22 AM | Report abuse
MCCAIN is of the idea if you just keep repeating the same lies over and over someone will begin to believe it. Even last night when he would lie and Obama would say "That is just not true" Mccains would just continue like he didn't even hear him.
Posted by: popasmoke | October 16, 2008 9:38 AM | Report abuse
As an educator, I want to let you know something that wasn't brought up by either candidate concerning education. Do you want to know why we are spending more money per student than any other country but performing lower than most others? Because in America, we teach EVERYONE, regardless of ability, disability, or otherwise. Many other countries only teach "the best of the best." They do not allow disabled or low-performing students into their school systems. Throwing more money at the situation, as McCain said, is not the answer. Developing programs for our students with special needs that helps them to succeed is important.
Also, when discussing military vets going in to teaching without taking a test, if you'll look at the facts, you have to have a degree. Many vets go in to service and get their degree while serving or before serving. However, teacher certification expires every five years in most states, so you have to take tests to be recertified. I agree that you shouldn't punish those serving our country just because they were not able to be actively teaching.
And is America really so dumb to see how Obama's tax plan will hurt small businesses? My parents own daycares. They have gone into debt trying to keep them running, and two of the three make over $250,000. My parents cannot afford higher taxes on those two businesses; they are having a hard enough time as it is keeping their heads above water, due to the fact that democrats, like Obama, want to get rid of perfectly good learning daycare centers to replace them with Head Start and other programs. Head Start is not the only option, and it has not been proven that Head Start students are any better off than other students. A good daycare prepares young children by teaching them social skills, coloring, cutting, pasting, handwriting, etc.
Some people are so blind to the ills of the Obama campaign, and it scares me to death.
Posted by: mzamberk | October 16, 2008 9:37 AM | Report abuse
McCain should star in the next Stephen King horror flick.
Posted by: Zeromeo | October 16, 2008 9:37 AM | Report abuse
the moderator was great!!!!
Posted by: lr9ark | October 16, 2008 9:35 AM | Report abuse
For those that find such things interesting. Mccain on intrade is approaching single digets. Obama now has a staggering 71 point lead.
Posted by: popasmoke | October 16, 2008 9:33 AM | Report abuse
Immigrants come here from all different parts of the world with nothing, except for what's in their suitcases, and they make successful lives for themselves. Then we have Americans, born and raised here, who can't seem to figure out how to do the same thing for themselves. We become complacent and angry instead of motivated and energized to do the same as the immigrants. This is the best country in the world, especially if you are poor. ANYONE can make a successful life for themselves here.
Posted by: hungrydingo | October 16, 2008 9:24 AM | Report abuse
Maybe the reason Mcbush couldn't look at th camera was because he kept repeating the same lies we've been hearing all along.Guilt maybe,doubt it
Posted by: countryfied | October 16, 2008 9:24 AM | Report abuse
Being a small business owner, when do I start making 250K a year. With the current economy its not going to be anytime soon. Whens the middle class business owner get his losses covered by bailouts.
Posted by: ccrowley | October 16, 2008 9:23 AM | Report abuse
It seemed to me, yet I haven't read much about this (for this debate), that McCain's attacks and his citations of Obama's record and positions were remarkably inaccurate. Doesn't he have anyone fact check his arguments? Did anyone else notice this or is it just me? In addition, McCain's position statements were usually so absurdly vague, and he would just say "I can fix this. I can do this. I know how to do it." Without actually saying how he would actually do it... absurdity. I really felt like McCain has turned into some crazy old man who was just ranting way at the kid down the street. Did anyone else notice this? I seriously think McCain is suffering from... well... old age. Does he not remember that every single one of his positions contradicts something he used to stand for? Seriously - that guy has lost some of his marbles.
Posted by: beersquirrel | October 16, 2008 9:22 AM | Report abuse
Yes, he absolutely said that we should put returning soldiers to teach at schools, via the fast track - no certification or exam requirements. I think it comes from the same area of the brain that prompted him to say "My fellow prisoners"
Posted by: VMR1 | October 16, 2008 9:22 AM | Report abuse
Everyone should realize that the problems this country faces can't be fixed anytime soon.It took Clinton almost 8 years to fix the mess Reagon left for the next pres.It only took Bush one year to mess it up again.McCain wants to continue the same republican polices that have failed in the past.Wake up America.Cutting the capital gains tax only helps the wealthy.People that struggling to make ends meet don't have money to invest to have any capital gains.And the huge corps. that get big tax breaks don't invest money here to create more jobs,they invest overseas to take advantage of cheap wages and make huge profits from cheap products that are exported back here.Obama wants to help create jobs in the US where they're needed.Greed of the wealthy has caused most of the problems we have.
Posted by: countryfied | October 16, 2008 9:19 AM | Report abuse
btw, did anyone else hear McCain say something about soldiers teaching without having to pass any exams or certifications? lol, maybe I'm crazy but I could have swore I heard him say that. Was he high? lol
Posted by: mcnini_77 | October 16, 2008 9:18 AM | Report abuse
Most private schools don't require certification.
Most do not when hiring, but most do after 2-4 years of teaching. Most also require a BA or MA in subject matter.
The idea of allowing any vet, most of whom do not have a BA at all, to teach without any qualification, is educationally reckless.
Not surprising coming from a man who graduated second to last from military school.
Posted by: wpost4112 | October 16, 2008 9:17 AM | Report abuse
There was a point in the talk, where I actually thought McCain was going to talk about how Palin and some of his supporters had gotten out of line, and how he and she should make a greater effort to repudiate and distance themselves from those comments. He didn't. (What was I smoking!?)
Instead, he feigned offense that someone else had taken offense to his actions, and denied that he had been complacent with those comments (which he, and especially Palin, have been).
McCain has lost so much of the respect that I used to have for him. Its been a shameful campaign.
Posted by: beersquirrel | October 16, 2008 9:17 AM | Report abuse
"Abortion, really?"
Uh...yes, really. This is a very important issue and some of us actually do feel VERY strongly about it. I am pro-choice, and any candidate who I feel even remotely threatens mine or any other woman's right to choose will never, ever receive my vote. I do not like abortion, and think it is a horrible and usually selfish decision, but if I ever have a daughter and she makes the horrible decision to have one, I want her to have ready and legal access to a doctor for the procedure, not some unlicensed, unregulated underground crap.
So, yes, abortion...really.
Posted by: mcnini_77 | October 16, 2008 9:14 AM | Report abuse
Obama was playing the prevent defense and protecting the lead, McCain had the spread offense out, and CNN let us all down by not having the running ticker of Ohio uncommitted plumbers' sentiment.
I agree with everyone who commented that the winner of the "debate" was Bob Schieffer. The TV audience probably felt like they got the most out of this debate because of how concise and pointed the questions were.
Posted by: Squatty_HJ | October 16, 2008 9:12 AM | Report abuse
OK lets review, a great man once said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, Ask what you can do for your country" .... I guess that no longer matters since it too was so long ago. Obama wants to grow government, raise taxes, and spread the wealth. Seems all of todays Democrats wants free handouts so I guess they dont remember what John Kennedy once held near and dear to his heart. Wake up.... Obama will raise taxes, grow the government to unrealistic measures... and then what?
Posted by: Concerned54 | October 16, 2008 9:08 AM | Report abuse
I think Sen. Obama has clearly won this debate. My reasons for stating this is quite simple:
1] Sen. Obama was more specific in his plans and strategies regarding the issues we are facing in our country.
2] Sen. McCain was not clear. When he replied, "I know how to fix that" , I am still waiting to hear how he is going to 'fix that'.
This is my opinion.
Posted by: tazzyjs | October 16, 2008 9:05 AM | Report abuse
Thanx to Heron and others who made my morning read-through of this thread possible!
My criticism of BHO last night is about his unwillingness to address prioritization in a time when choices have been narrowed. My criticisms of McC are of his demeanor and his reliance on tax-cuts for the investor class as a cure-all.
My kudos for last night are to Bob Schieffer, my fellow Texan.
Posted by: mark_in_austin | October 16, 2008 9:05 AM | Report abuse
Did anyone else find it an awkwardly uncomfortable moment when a sulking McCain demanded an apology from Obama for what Representative Lewis said a couple of days ago?
Obama's response about Americans not caring about the candidates' "hurt feelings" to me was the line of the night.
I think the comparison in temperament was stark in that exchange. I want a president who is emotionally tough enough to move on from unfair attacks. Only one candidate was able to do that last night.
Posted by: tsawyer_mv | October 16, 2008 8:56 AM | Report abuse
Boy, (and boys), I miss Hillary Clinton on debates. It has been boring, same old same oratories. I am so glad it is over.
Posted by: studioyivilla | October 16, 2008 8:46 AM | Report abuse
Obama won the debate, no doubt. McCain sounded angry, petulant, and at times frankly incoherent. His facial expressions were at times very bizarre. Obama stuck to his points with calm, grace, and dignity. Very presidential. Obama has my vote.
Posted by: sloopiel | October 16, 2008 8:44 AM | Report abuse
DOES ANYONE KNOW OF ANY UNBIASED WEBSITE THAT WILL TAKE THE 2 PRES CANDIDATES AND 2 VP CANDIDATES, SHOW THERE POSITIONS ON THE ISSUES, THERE QUOTES, FLIP FLOPS THERE PAST VOTES AND POSITIONS AND MORE IMPORTANT LIES. LIST IT DOWN OR CHART IT OUT. ALL WITH FOOTNOTES FOR VERIFICATION. ITS SO HARD TO TRUST IN THIS WORLD WE LIVE IN. SO LETS JUST GET THE FACTS AND VOTE THE PERSONS WE AGREE WITH THE MOST. SIMPLE. Email me at email@example.com. Thanks
Posted by: ako2hot4u | October 16, 2008 8:44 AM | Report abuse
Mark in Austin, I sent an email complaint about 37th and O to both the account linked to the "Report abuse" links, and Chris Cillizza. Other people may also have reported him. Anyway, his duplicate posts were deleted. I wonder if they'll keep on doing that.
Chris's email is: email@example.com
The "report abuse" email is:
Maybe if we keep on reporting this guy (assuming he'll be allowed to keep on making multiple repeat posts), he'll be banned. I'm sick of his drivel!
Posted by: Heron | October 16, 2008 8:44 AM | Report abuse
I can envision Obama working together with others to get important things done here and internationally. I can envision McCain starting fights here and around the world. We have had enough of the cowboy gunsliger mentality to last a lifetime. It is past time to pick a leader who knows how to get things done instead of trying to score political points with the base. In terms of Joe, I have no sympathy for a plumber who earns more than $250,000 a year. I envision Joe as someone who is more interested in making a buck with an outrageous call fee than fixing my leaking pipes. Anyone who has ever had to use a plumbing service is not going to be crying for the plight of Joe because he has to pay taxes.
Posted by: cdierd1944 | October 16, 2008 8:42 AM | Report abuse
When Johnnie Walnuts told us that under his presidency he would ensure that Joe da' plumber, his life, and his business would not be regulated Obama should have said "We've seen what deregulation can do to help all Americans, good job"
Posted by: jolu32339 | October 16, 2008 8:42 AM | Report abuse
Posted by: popasmoke | October 16, 2008 8:41 AM | Report abuse
Most private schools don't require certification.
Posted by: pat41 | October 16, 2008 8:30 AM | Report abuse
I was not aware of that, but it makes the point all the more obvious to me that charter schools or voucher programs are creating a parallel educational system that dilutes pubic and private school resources. We need to have one school system that is the best, not compete with ourselves by funding two systems, neither of which would be as good as one great system.
Posted by: Tojo1 | October 16, 2008 8:36 AM | Report abuse
Oh, on the debate... I thought it was McCain's at the beginning and Obama's at the end. Both closing statements were snoozers.
Posted by: corridorg4 | October 16, 2008 8:34 AM | Report abuse
The only thing that one can conclude from the debates is that neither candidate is good at debates.
Both presidential debates needed Nader and Barr to bring out real issues instead of a worthless debate about who will cut taxes more at a time when our country is running a half-trillion dollar deficit, involved in two wars and a financial bailout. Tax cuts?
I'm sorry but I want a balanced budget. Tax me more, balance the budget, lower costs and then lower my taxes. Just by cutting the amount we pay in interest on our debt by 15% we could pay for health care for everyone in the country.
As far as the VP candidates is it too late to pick again?
Could they bring in Romney and Clark?
Posted by: Southeasterner | October 16, 2008 8:33 AM | Report abuse
Observing Senator McCain's behavior last night reminded me of a person under the influence of some type of medication. Not that that is necessarily bad. But I found his jerky movements, odd facial expressions, and rapid, non-stop blinking somewhat disturbing. It occurred to me that candidates for the highest office in the land should be required to provide a list to the public of all the medications that they are taking on a regular basis. I think we deserve to know if a candidate has a chronic condition that is causing them to take any medications that may alter/impair their judgment or reasoning ability or possibly effect their mood or temperament. I do not think it would be unreasonable to require this. Many of the lowest paid jobs in this country force prospective employees to submit to drug screening tests. I have certainly taken my share of them. I am not trying to pick on Senator McCain on this point. His behavior last night may have been totally normal for him. And who knows, maybe Senator Obama was high as a kite. I just think it would be prudent for the public to know this information before we let them have access to " the big red button".
Posted by: kgeakin | October 16, 2008 8:32 AM | Report abuse
Most private schools don't require certification.
Posted by: pat41 | October 16, 2008 8:30 AM | Report abuse
TWCalhoun and Obama nailed it on the head. Teachers can only do so much. When a child shows up hungry, exhausted because his parent(s) let him stay up all night, or unsure of where he is sleeping that night, he is not going to have the capacity to learn. We also need early childhood education for all kids. When I substitute taught kindergarten, I was shocked at the difference between children who could already read and write, and those who had absolutely no clue what was going on. For them, school is just another babysitter. They aren't ready to be there, and fall farther behind, but mom or dad can't afford daycare, so there they sit.
I live in a very small town where unemployment is around 13%. There is a elementary parenting class available, but it is focused strictly on disciplinary issues, because that is all that the grant would pay for. The Catholic church in town has started a program for parents and children whose spouse or former spouse is an alcoholic or drug addict. These do help some of the kids, and I appreciate their efforts. But its not enough. Parents need to stop acting selfishly and remember they brought these kids into this world and it is their responsibility to raise them, not the schools'. That was lost sometime between when I was a child in the 1970's and now.
Posted by: corridorg4 | October 16, 2008 8:30 AM | Report abuse
SOLIDERS TEACHING W/O CERTIFICATIONS? Is McCain serious?
Posted by: teshia | October 16, 2008 8:04 AM | Report abuse
I forgot about this statement. How could anyone make such a statement? And with the reports about the telecomm's giving the McCains a personal cell tower (or two), I think the image becomes clearer. McCain is out of touch and out of his league. It may be age, but he is not acting like the man I thought I admired for so long.
Posted by: Tojo1 | October 16, 2008 8:29 AM | Report abuse
John McCain has spent the last 26 years at the top of the power pyramid.
John McCain owns 13 automobiles and, at least, seven houses.
John McCain was able to dump his first wife and pick up a second much younger "trophy" wife who's also a millionaire.
But John McCain is pretty old; the average US male only lives about five or six years past the age that McCain is today.
I'd be angry too. Life's been good up to this point. McCain reminds me of my old mother, who recently passed away (and yes, I did love her dearly).
But why does John McCain think he needs to take out his anger on the rest of us?
And how can anyone think John McCain will fight for those of us who aren't old, white, rich, powerful elitists like him?
Posted by: jjedif | October 16, 2008 8:28 AM | Report abuse
What an amazing psychological shot-in-the-arm we will get when Obama is elected President. It will do more good than the bail-out. What a brilliant strategist Obama is! Could be the best political campaign in American history.
Posted by: wpost4112 | October 16, 2008 8:24 AM | Report abuse
To those who still believe that Republicans are "doers" -- do you ever get past that antiquated view of Republicans and ask "what the hell have they actually done"?
To those of you with prophecies of doom under Obama -- do you like what your free-market republicans and non-nation building Republicans have actually done?
You guys are delusional!
Posted by: vicweast | October 16, 2008 8:24 AM | Report abuse
obama is playing bait and switch
when he taxes corporations,
it will not be 'fair'
to middle and low income
taxpayers, because those taxes
are passed on to consumers as
higher prices. So bama gives you
$500 dollars, and the cost of living
goes up $750 for you.
that is a NET LOSS of real income.
Wake Up America!
There are no free lunches!
only gullible voters!
Posted by: USA3 | October 16, 2008 8:16 AM | Report abuse
Give it up. Your guy went down in flames last night. He is not ready to begin the toughest job on earth. He is ready to get this election over with and head home for a long rest. He just looks tired and old.
Posted by: popasmoke | October 16, 2008 8:22 AM | Report abuse
I was listening to a radio program about the presidential race. When certain people in Harlem asked who they were going to vote for, they said Obama. The interviewer named a few policies of Obama and asked is that why they are voting for him. They agreed 100%. Only problem is that they were McCain's policies. 99% of America is dumb and uneducated. Pass an IQ test before you're allowed to vote. I was undecided until I saw Democrats were responsible for this stock market crash. The key figures in this are very big supporters of Obama. The more I dug, the more I found. So please, all I am asking for is an educated vote. Research, compare. And what a shocker that this paper supports Obama(sarcasm). Nobama would not make a very good president. Plus, I don't want to pay A LOT more in taxes. HE'S ALL WRONG FOR THIS COUNTRY. But, then again, he is the anti-christ lol
Posted by: dferda | October 16, 2008 8:21 AM | Report abuse
I think McCain won this debate. He was constantly on the offensive and forced Obama to be more open about his policies.
Obama seems to be focused on changes that won't show benefit for at least 10 years. I found his closing statement especially weak: "But it's not going to be easy. It's not going to be quick. It is going to be requiring all of us -- Democrats, Republicans, independents -- to come together and to renew a spirit of sacrifice and service and responsibility."
Given the state of the economy, Obama's plan to force everyone to have health care seems pretty foolish. I don't think anyone should be forced to have health care, and they should definitely not be fined for not having it.
"This will cost some money on the front end, but over the long term this is the only way that not only are we going to make families healthy, but it's also how we're going to save the federal budget, because we can't afford these escalating costs."
Not only will it cost the government, but it is forcing more bills on to people who can't afford them. If you don't have health insurance now, its because you cannot afford it. How will Obama's mandatory health care plan help in this economy?
His big idea for getting the economy back on track is having American automakers "start producing the highly fuel-efficient cars of the future".
"If we can get that right, then we can move in a direction not only of energy independence, but we can create 5 million new jobs all across America, including in the heartland where we can retool some of these plants to make these highly fuel-efficient cars and also to make wind turbines and solar panels, the kinds of clean energy approaches that should be the driver of our economy for the next century."
How are Americans going to pay for these brand new cars and their mandatory health insurance? How are the automakers going to afford the cost of creating entirely new technology? How is this going to help us now?
And concerning colleges: "And that's why I've proposed a $4,000 tuition credit, every student, every year, in exchange for some form of community service, whether it's military service, whether it's Peace Corps, whether it's working in a community." 4k is a small dent in tuition, especially when to receive it you will have to do work to get it. And this student probably already has a job to help pay for school.
In a healthy economy, I could see how his ideas could be beneficial. But right now they can only hurt the economy. He has too many huge changes he is trying to make at a time when there isn't any economy to support them.
Some how I feel safer with 4 years of Mccain simply cutting spending, than 4 years of Obama changing the face of every institution during a deepening recession.
We seem to be stuck between a rock and a hard place in another presidential election. Start saving.
Posted by: pat41 | October 16, 2008 8:20 AM | Report abuse
I used to admire John McCain. Somewhere between the primary season and now he veered horribly off course.
Why on earth would he hire the very same Bush savages who destroyed him in 2000? Why on earth would he pander to the far right and pick a nincompoop like Palin?
And the last month? McCain has contradicted himself consistently, acted like a nervous man who veers into incomprehensible sentences. During each of these three debates -- McCain seemed to have no strategy other than attack (misrepresenting strategies Obama already explained clearly enough).
The bottom line for me is: McCain has become a man who acts like "connect-the-dots" but he lacks the connecting lines.
This is not the next President -- I hope.
Posted by: vicweast | October 16, 2008 8:20 AM | Report abuse
McCain was like a hyperactive child, interrupting, bouncing from one thought to another, using a verbal shorthand that only he can really interpret, leaving the rest of us to fill in the blanks ourselves. Not very comforting or useful to anyone. Not to mention the facial contortion he calls a smile. Obama isn't perfect, but he's so good at sticking to the topic, and not being sucked into the fray, that there is some comfort to thinking he would be at the helm of this troubled nation during these disturbing times. McCain is toast.
Posted by: Tojo1 | October 16, 2008 8:19 AM | Report abuse
SOLIDERS TEACHING W/O CERTIFICATIONS? Is McCain serious?
Posted by: teshia | October 16, 2008 8:04 AM | Report abuse
Maybe one of the most idiotic suggestions Mccain threw out last night. He must have come up with that right off the top of his head. No advisor would have let him say such a stupid thing.
"Hay", maybe they can be doctors also. The heck with all the schooling stuff, they can learn surgery on the job, they are veterans after all.
Mccain must be losing it or something.
Posted by: popasmoke | October 16, 2008 8:18 AM | Report abuse
obama is playing bait and switch
when he taxes corporations,
it will not be 'fair'
to middle and low income
taxpayers, because those taxes
are passed on to consumers as
higher prices. So bama gives you
$500 dollars, and the cost of living
goes up $750 for you.
that is a NET LOSS of real income.
Wake Up America!
There are no free lunches!
only gullible voters!
Posted by: USA3 | October 16, 2008 8:16 AM | Report abuse
The Race Issue:
I am going to be among the first to say that I AM TIRED OF HEARING THAT.
NO matter what is said about Obama, we have to hear about RACISM....but yet the Dems can say whatever they want about Palin and it is called POLITICS.
I am a "typical white American" as Obama put it and I am TIRED of hearing it. IF you want RACE out of it then STOP bringing it up. Maybe Palin needs to start hollering DISCRIMINATION, but you have to REMEMBER that a Republican is a DOER, while the Democrats are WHINERS.
Beside how can you be a racist against someone that is equally WHITE & BLACK??
I am also tired of this African-American thing - were you born in Africa? WELL NEITHER WAS OBAMA AND HIS BLACK ROOTS ARE NOT FROM AFRICA EITHER...so get over it and either be an AMERICAN or leave America!!!
USA is #1
Posted by: djmiller1 | October 16, 2008 8:14 AM | Report abuse
When will people realize that that 250,000 for a independent bussiness owner goes to pay rent/lease, buy inventory to sell,pay employees? Tax that and your neighbors who are barely holding onto their bussiness are going to have to close, or let go of employees. It's not going to hurt the wealthy, but these people. Increased loan defaults, increased mortgage foreclosures I see as a result. Government also getting involved in another health care project? HAH! Their programs already only pay hospitals 10 cents on the dollar and take so long to pay that that hospitals are in the red and closing! I see increased health insurance costs for those who don't use the gov't programs. How about instead, we cut all of those stupid paid trips our representatives make, cut frivolent purchases which occur daily. If I don't have enough money, I start to cut out unneccessary expenses. Why is that so hard for people in office to do??
Posted by: hope7 | October 16, 2008 8:00 AM | Report abuse
If I read your post right the person you describe makes well under $250,000. For someone to walk away with a $250,000. net after all expenses they would have to have a business grossing in the 1 million dollar range. Few small business make even close to that kind of money. "VERY FEW"
Posted by: popasmoke | October 16, 2008 8:12 AM | Report abuse
We elect representatives to represent us, that is, to do what is good for us. If our leaders sit idly by and watch, wait, and then do nothing about the detrimental economic impact of individual and corporate actions authorized by laws they themselves have enacted, they're not doing their jobs, and they have breached their obligations to us under the Social Contract of Democracy. The effects of their malfeasance is to create an economic environment imbued with moral hazards threatening liberty and justice for us all.
It is time that the moral obligations inherent in the Social Contract of our Democracy be enforced by our federal government. Darwinian economic policy based on the notion of "survival of the fittest" breaches the commitment that our government owes to us. A "Fair Market" NOT a "Free Market" should be the objective of our government policy.
American economic policies, at home and abroad, affect the welfare of many, many people and, as such, should be governed by moral principles, not scientific ones. Too often our economic policies benefit the few at the expense of the many and take the form of "untrammeled greed." When our government leaders allow this to happen, whether it be through their own actions or their inactions, they have relegated us to subjects of the state and have stripped us of our rights as citizens to effectuate through government our "general will" for the common good.
We have seen this all too often over the past several decades. The home mortgage crisis, lopsided "free trade" arrangements, and the health care crisis are just a few examples prevalent today. The health care crisis is perhaps the most egregious example of nihilistic Darwinian economics yet -- where our own family and friends' health, well-being, and even lives are at stake. Survival of the fittest and the extinction of the "unfit" have become a depressing and fatalistic reality of life for many, many Americans.
Posted by: MauriB | October 16, 2008 8:05 AM | Report abuse
SOLIDERS TEACHING W/O CERTIFICATIONS? Is McCain serious?
Posted by: teshia | October 16, 2008 8:04 AM | Report abuse
I am a centrist and former Clinton supporter. I have to say that I'm appalled at how off-base and behind the curve McCain has been since his convention.
From seriously mishandling Palin and squandering her value (outside of the base) to every posture McCain has taken since the convention and since the economic alarms erupted, McCain has shown ill judgment and poor strategic vision at every opportunity.
Last night, he was finally up to speed on substance and posture. Yet he still has failed to understand how outclassed he is on the charm front. Obama won the debate simply by not sitting there with mean smirks and evil, adversarial grimaces as McCain was.
I was all for McCain until the economic turmoil started and his really incoherent moves began to become more obvious. I had a deep bias against Obama's lack of experience and substantial professional record, which I view as more or less making Obama a left-wing version of George W. Bush. I envisioned Obama as being a clueless ivy league face man, and an ideological tool of his party's left wing while Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid run the country from Congress.
With McCain's judgment and strategy implosion and Obama's more effective positioning and adaptive learning in the past month, I have to say that I'm unsure that experience and qualifications is as much of an issue in this election with these two candidates as it was for the Bush-Gore contest.
With McCain, and his decades of experience, one can only assume that he is at the top of his game and this is as good as it gets. With Obama, one can at least assume that he does possess the capacity to continue to develop and grow as a politician because he's more at the start of his game than the top of it.
I am leaning away from McCain and toward Obama, now. I still don't like Obama's past associations and lack of substantial professional works and executive experience. But McCain is getting smaller and smaller and Obama is growing.
Posted by: AsperGirl | October 16, 2008 8:01 AM | Report abuse
When will people realize that that 250,000 for a independent bussiness owner goes to pay rent/lease, buy inventory to sell,pay employees? Tax that and your neighbors who are barely holding onto their bussiness are going to have to close, or let go of employees. It's not going to hurt the wealthy, but these people. Increased loan defaults, increased mortgage foreclosures I see as a result. Government also getting involved in another health care project? HAH! Their programs already only pay hospitals 10 cents on the dollar and take so long to pay that that hospitals are in the red and closing! I see increased health insurance costs for those who don't use the gov't programs. How about instead, we cut all of those stupid paid trips our representatives make, cut frivolent purchases which occur daily. If I don't have enough money, I start to cut out unneccessary expenses. Why is that so hard for people in office to do??
Posted by: hope7 | October 16, 2008 8:00 AM | Report abuse
Reading the comments this morning led me to think that many long screeds by Street Corner had been deleted. [Thank you, WaPo]. Like Big Julie from Chicago in "Guys and Dolls", who carried his own blank dice but remembered where the spots were, I can remember Street Corner's screeds even when they have been removed.
bsimon contributed a terrific post at 11:28P.
Posted by: mark_in_austin | October 16, 2008 7:56 AM | Report abuse
in reply to jgarrisn-
learn facts before you post. That is totally uncalled for and full of lies about the McCain's.
Why don't you actually tell the truths about Obama? oopps...he used drugs, he took 120,000 from fannie mae, he says that 18 billion in ear marks are OK, he says he wants to spread our wealth (I don't see him spreading his), he lied about his connections to terrorist, he says he spent 20 years in a church and never knew what the preacher preached, he contributed 80 grand to Acorn to help buy him some votes, he is a smooth person just as Jim Jones was, so when he tells everyone to drink poison, what ya gonna do?
So please, grow up and talk about the politics and leave the lies alone. There are facts to back up what I stated, but for you - please keep to the facts.
Posted by: djmiller1 | October 16, 2008 7:51 AM | Report abuse
I have watched the American political race with much hope and some fear.
Hope, because I believe American is capable of and required to show some leadership in what is now a global world...
Fear, because ulitimately, the Amercian public voted Bush in for a 2nd term....
Personally, I think both candidates are probably good people, it does after all, take some courage to put yourself up for the most challenging job in the world....
However, if this is the most challenging job in the world, surely what the world and American is looking for is someone with intellect and ability to be calm, grounded and sturdy with the responsibilities of that job.
I applaud John McCain for stepping up, but I don't see a world leader, I see someone who rightly after a life of public service wants the job, however, not someone who has the temperment to do the job..
He has demonstrated a series of very questionable decisions/behaviours:
1) Sarah Palin for VP
2) Financial bailout handling
3) Getting sucked into a character bashing
4) Demonstrating impatience & even anger for apposing points of view
I am a duel citizenship of both the UK and Australia, and have in the past lived in the US and as a self proclaimed "citizen of the world", I am eternally hopeful that Americans can bring some integrity back to the values they hold dear, namely demoncracy and freedom. Given this I would question the following which feature as an issue in the debate/campaign:
1) Palling with terrorists - Such tenious links as a middle name or past tenuous associations apparently have one adopt the views of others by simply being in the same room as them.....Obviously, Obama is not muslim, but let us consider for a moment of reflection that he was, surely, if all are equal why would this be an issue...you can't preach freedom for all and then put religion and/or race up a character issue.
2)Sarah Palin - surely we want someone as VP who actually demonstrates some skill and ability for communicating with the rest of the world - Sarah has not demonstrated this in any measure that matters for the world outside of the US.
3) Why is intellect or even being a liberal put up as evidence of being elite - surely one can be smart and embrassive, in fact, wouldn't it take someone of intelligence to be able to embrase all levels and backgrounds..a skill one might want for the leader of 300million people of all different races, backgrounds and education levels.
Please American, step up in the polls, the world needs you to make smart decisions and regain some sense of the leadership you have shown in the past....
Posted by: karenramsay1 | October 16, 2008 7:48 AM | Report abuse
What we have found out over the years is that the better liar, the least reflective and conscience stricken B.S.-er, can win a debate. We saw it with Reagan, we saw it with Bush 1, we saw it with Bush 2. Because if you don't know or care about the truth, you can lie with a straight face, look more comfortable, and win any debate.
And so Obama came off better in these debates. Watch all hell break loose when he sneaks into office and tries to do what he REALLY wants.
Posted by: dyinglikeflies1 | October 16, 2008 7:37 AM | Report abuse
I am a true independent and have watched all of the debates. I believe that Obama won the debate. McCain looked old and angry while Obama was calm and collected.
There are two things that bothered me about the debate.
First of all Joe Plumber. McCain said that under Obama's plan that Joe would have a tax increase. Well, under Obama's plan you have to be making 250,000 for that to happen. To tell the truth, as a hard working teacher who barely makes over 30,000 and is trying to pay back student loans and support my family (with son in college) with my husband who is a factory worker...I don't really give a hoot if Joe 250,000+ a year gets a tax increase. Please spread it around! And right now over half of my pay goes to insurance for my family, so I ma sure that Joe can afford it under either candidates plan. Joe Plumber does not represent the average American, at least not where I am from.
Second of all, McCain kept interrupting Obama. This is rude and shows a lack of self-control. If McCain is angry at a foreign leader and they are in a meeting is he just going to "butt in" to show that he doesn't agree or is he going to wait patiently and have an adult conversation? There were several times that Obama was visibly upset by something that was said, but he waited until McCain finished talking before he began to speak. That shows me maturity, self-control, and patience. All of which we need in a president.
Posted by: born2teach | October 16, 2008 7:32 AM | Report abuse
Although I seldom watch television, last night's debate was "reality programming" at its best! Kudos to Bob Schieffer for his adroit handling of the often wandering minds (and mouths) of the two candidates!
Posted by: doctorwascher | October 16, 2008 7:29 AM | Report abuse
As a tax professional I just want to set the record straight about Joe the Plumber. He stated the business would make about $258k. That is not the amount that he is going to pay tax on. You pay tax on your net income; therefore Joe the Plumber would pay tax on $258k less all operating expenses and therefore under Obama tax plan he would not see an increase in his taxes. Something Obama probably should have pointed out to him, but it's not information people keep at the front of their mind unless you work in it everyday like I do. So, John McCain got to exploit this issue but its going to take more than being over zealous, obnoxious and angry because you think its your divine right to be president, to get you to the white house.
Obama/Biden 2008!!!!
Posted by: jamasonmd | October 16, 2008 7:29 AM | Report abuse
I am not sure that I live in the same country as most - Obama was arrogant and was smug, why would anyone want him to be president is beside me. I was never for McCain but when Obama won for the Dems I had to look at who I just didn't like and who scared the hell out of me....So McCain.Palin will get my vote.
I am still in shock over what people find so amazing about Obama - what EXACTLY has he ever done?? NOTHING, just as all the Dems have been doing for the past 2 years - NOTHING.
So it looks like alot of people want a DO-NOTHING president along with the DO- NOTHING congress...that is going to be great when we get bombed again.
Posted by: djmiller1 | October 16, 2008 7:24 AM | Report abuse
OBAMA WON. Cool, calm, thoughtful, deliberate. Presidential. McCain seems MANIC. Ruled by his emotions. And no poker face at all...you can tell exactly what he's thinking, with all the eye rolling and sneering. Looked like he was going to pop a vein. Good thing he's not in charge of any diplomatic relations...
Posted by: biloxibelle | October 16, 2008 7:14 AM | Report abuse
I'm a producer for a nationally broadcast public radio program (Speaking of Faith) and in two recent interviews we conducted with Amy Sullivan ( http://speakingoffaith.org/programs/2008/sullivan ), a national correspondent for Time, and Rod Dreher ( http://speakingoffaith.org/programs/2008/dreher ), a conservative columnist for the Dallas Morning News, both addressed the subject of abortion. This issue is probably one of the most perplexing topics in that many people are exhausted but yet feel like it's unresolved in their own minds and communities. Even within the evangelical Christian community, there's a range of thoughts on this -- from the more conservative Chuck Colson to the moderate stances of Greg Boyd and Shane Claiborne.
We asked our listeners about this middle ground between the two polarized extremes (see map and full responses here: http://speakingoffaith.org/programs/2008/abortion/). A fair number of people are wrestling with the legality issues of abortion and the moral bind they find themselves in on trying to act with compassion and morality, which is all to say that neither candidate probably moved many independent voters on this issue. I do find it interesting that the Democratic platform has unclenched its tight squeeze on "pro-choice" issues and wonder if that will make any headway in the polling booth. *shrug*
Posted by: tgilliss | October 16, 2008 7:09 AM | Report abuse
How do I explain why Obama should not win? Let me count the ways:
(1) From the onset, the Democratic National Committee created primary rules that totally differ from how one is elected President nationally. Instead of "one vote over 50%/winner take all delegates per state", they instead made it "proportional delegation split". For this, the states that Hillary Clinton won would have solidified her as the legitimate candidate if the correct method was used.
(2) Too much emphasis was on the caucuses and not on voter elections. Many of the caucuses were disorganized and misrepresented. Texas is a perfect example. Hillary won the primary election (MILLIONS of people voted) yet Obama somehow won the caucus, to which hundreds of complaints of disorganization were vented.
(3) Obama complains of McCain being too much like George Bush, but his actions to totally dismiss Florida and Michican and not have their votes fully counted, reminds me very much of George Bush--refusing to listen to the pleas of the American people
(4) Obama's inexperience vastly shows in his judgment. Rev Wright and Mr Ayers as long time relationships, and not selecting or even asking Hillary Clinton to be VP, are hardcore examples of serious (and egotistical) errors of decisionmaking.
(5) Obama is too much a typical politician, in spite of his rhetoric for change. Choosing Joe Biden as his vehicle to prove that Washington needs change, is like trying to avoid a suntan by staying inside a glass house.
(6) Obama is too young and too much in a hurry to be President! Why the mad rush? What's wrong; are you bored being a Senator, sir? Don't feel like gaining experience? What's the problem here? Worse yet, mainstream media has been totally bent on ensuring he wins. Why? Why has experience suddenly been a detriment? If you were told you needed emergency open-heart surgery, would you prefer a doctor who has done it countless number of times, or would you take a chance on a kid who just graduated from college?
Posted by: kweschinomor | October 16, 2008 7:08 AM | Report abuse
2008 5:35 am
Whilst McCain performed creditably today, he merely reiterated and represents the same old Republican 20th century policies, which protects the "so called" top echelon of American society and not 21st century middle Main Street America. Furthermore, McCain's age and selection of a somewhat irrational "pistol packing moose shooting MOM" as his Vice President, was enough to scare the living daylights out of the rest of the Western world - just imagine letting her have her finger on the Red Button?
Obama impresses as an American with vast intelligence and integrity, one who intends to restore dignity, compassion and "common old nous" back into the US political arena and whose 21st century policies will begin to restore the Nations building processes, so badly needed by all American citizens and the rest of the free world.
Should Obama win, his task ahead is a mammoth one to restore credibility and honest trading to America's shattered and battered economic status, after the Bush regimes 8 years of pillage and rape of your treasury coffers.
— Lew Louthean, Australia
Posted by: llouthean | October 16, 2008 7:01 AM | Report abuse
Enough of Joe the Plumber. What will McCain do for Bill the unemployed auto worker, Jean the bank teller or Wally the wage slave Walmart employee.
It's good to own 7 houses and have a rich wife.
Posted by: seemstome | October 16, 2008 7:00 AM | Report abuse
I think a president needs to be honest, ethical and ready to manage the United States for the people not for the politics. Being ready to fight at all times is not a good characteristic for a leader to have. Being ready for what ever comes along is a better quality. This election is a difficult one and I think the answer to who won will be best answered this time next year.
Mean while lets all pull together stop the cat calling and ethnic slurs to focus on the correct decision in November. Don't get caught up in political hype and join the media in trying to only show the negative side of everything. Do your own research and vote for the BEST person in your opinion. We all have that right and must exercise it.
Posted by: trw188 | October 16, 2008 6:57 AM | Report abuse
Sheryl, how are the Joe Plumbers going to get rich if the people have no money to spend for plumbers? The economy depends on the average person having money to spend and people will not get rich if we don't spend. If some people don't get rich we have no jobs. Obama has repeatedly said he will not raise the taxes of anyone making a quarter million or less. That means we have more money to spend making the rich man richer so that he can create more jobs which Obama has said he will give incentives to if he creates those jobs for us here at home. How is that socialist?
Posted by: twcalhoun | October 16, 2008 6:48 AM | Report abuse
McCain leads the wing nut fringe in a self destructive direction.
When people attack government in a democracy, they are attacking themselves.
When they attack a free press, freedom of speech and freedom of choice it is a symptom of a deluded society.
Dark times ahead.
Posted by: seemstome | October 16, 2008 6:46 AM | Report abuse
Who the hell cares anymore?
Let's get this thing over with and get on with business!
This campaign has been going on, it seems, for years.
You capitalists out there that are so damned terrified about "socialism", consider the recent bailout of big banks. Yeah, these are the same people that spent $440K on meals and manicures on the taxpayer dime. I guess socialism is OK for big corporations, but not for poor people, huh? Not very Christian, I would think.
Posted by: worthin1 | October 16, 2008 6:45 AM | Report abuse
I was so glad to hear the lady or man that talked about Rush Limbaugh and his hate crowd. I was starting to think that there was nobody out there paying attention to these clowns. Limbaugh and his cronies know only one thing, and that is Hate! All you have to do is be a liberal or undecided or anyone but a Republican and you are on there hit list. Reminds me of Germany in 1939 when the air waves were filled with propaganda and hate. And that other clown O'Reilly does the same thing. He was just the other day screaming like a mad man at one of our Senators as if this whole fiasco was the fault of one old man? And for some reason nobody is talking about the Bush man? I guess it's pity time for the old Texan. It's as if these radio and TV people can't live without this intense hate of someone that is a little different than they are. As most of us already know hate usually stems from fear and these people must have lots of it. I doubt they were ever in the military and probably never really had a job that made them work a full day. They talk big but they carry a little stick or maybe a little pee wee. Even with a Republican President who had a Republican ruled Congress for six long years they still don't get it. They scream there Nazi rhetoric everyday to anyone who will listen. It's really sad to see in a Country like ours. Can you imagine these guys doing this 20 or even 30 years ago? Or even worse during World War Two! I myself would love to go toe to toe with O'Reilly or the fat pill pusher who hates dopers. I am almost 60 old but it would not scare me at all to take on either one of these clowns. especially O'Reilly because he needs a good thumpen. Screaming at a liberal Senator that he knows would never fight back is sickening. He is nothing but a bully that needs his teeth loosened up. You hear that big R? And there is no hate on this side, it's called justice. Nuff said............
Posted by: blackhawk2 | October 16, 2008 6:42 AM | Report abuse
No miracles took place last night, and no minds were changed. This election will really be decided by the past 8 years, and the stock market crash this month. All Barack Obama had to do was not slip up, and he didn't. John McCain will consider himself lucky he's not going to deal with what Barack Obama will have to in the next four years.
Posted by: rmpatera | October 16, 2008 6:38 AM | Report abuse
This was the only debate I watched and I was initially impressed with Mc Cain's aggressiveness in pursuing some key issues...then, about midway, he fell apart. Toward the end he was throwing out irrelevant comments, disjointed thoughts and school marm criticisms. I thought Obama was steady, almost to the point of boring, but his steadiness showed some inner strength under pressure. I think that Mc Cain could have done far better with his body language: that weird blinking and staring, his twitching and shifting in his chair...all gave me the impression of a very angry man who lost his focus. Obama won.
Posted by: Bob43 | October 16, 2008 6:35 AM | Report abuse
I do wish some Americans would get off this 'Obama - means socialism' hobby horse. Sorry guys, you wouldn't know socialism if it hit you with a Greyhound bus!! Try the UK in the 1960s when banks, transport and health were totally socialised. You couldn't even chose your own family doctor. Or the EU in the 80s & 90s. Sure, on the barometer between rampant liberalism and rampant liberterianism (both equally bad), Obama might take the needle a few ticks to the left, but that cannot be as bad as what under-regulated banks and Wall St have got you into, does it? Even if it is President Obama in Jan 2009, do not expect having to sing 'the Internationale' (Socialist Anthem) any time soon! God bless America, and God bless the American President (Blue or Red).
Signed - an Australian friend and ally!
Posted by: curtisrf2004 | October 16, 2008 6:34 AM | Report abuse
Although Obama continued with his arrogant eloquent promises, McCain brought out some truths that should be addressed by each and every American who plans to vote in 19 days. Obama's stoic stature revealed no indication of the beliefs that have been imprinted in his character while McCain sought to expose him and reveal what is hidden beneath that exterior demeanor. These are serious allegations and shouldn't be glazed over with grandiose promises that mimic the happily-ever-after endings in fairytales. Obama is clearly an excellent debater. But the seasoned listener should be able to read between the lines. We were always taught that 'actions speak louder than words'. Therefore, we should look at the actions and not be deceived by the words. Whatever the outcome of the decision that we make in 19 days, we are going to have to live with it, not only for four more years, but for many more years to come. So, let's not be blinded by our desires to believe in fairytales but let's face the reality of what could happen. Let each candidate's past be a reflection of what is to come. Look at past beliefs and actions to reveal the true nature of each candidate before casting that final vote in November that will seal our fate and destiny for the next four plus years.
Posted by: tswaim | October 16, 2008 6:34 AM | Report abuse
Joe the C.E.O. must be feeling a little safer after McCain's performance. One thing you can say about John is that, like Bush, he's loyal to his base. Rich republicans will benefit far more from McCain's tax plan than anyone in Joe the Plumber's tax bracket. By the way, Joe set the record straight. He makes less than 250 grand so would actually benefit from Obama's plan.
Posted by: seemstome | October 16, 2008 6:30 AM | Report abuse
clrfromcali writes:
"I'm surprised at the Obama camp. Doesn't it concern any of you that Osama - oh excuse me, I mean Obama - would not salute our American flag? Not to mention his preference of using the Islamic Our'an vs. the American Bible when being sworn in as Senator. Um.... HELLO!!!! These two issues alone speak volumes. Or maybe I'm just a concerned Republican who would actually vote for a Democrat if I thought he had America's best interest at heart. I almost want Obama to win, watch our country go into a tail spin, and see who you guys "pass the buck" to when you wake up and find we have a socialized government. Yeah Obama may look better than McCain, and he is an eloquent orator -no argument. I know McCain is up against the greatest challenge a president has ever faced. I'm not even saying that he would be the one to solve our problems. But between the two...I have to say McCain. I just think after 911, it is laughable that we even CONSIDER a man to represent our country with a name like Barack HUSSEIN Obama. But, join the Obamamania, and vote for change. Hey it's just our country... and your future."
You are full of lies and it is typical of the ignorant racists who have taken over the republican party. Mr. Obama took the oath of office with his hand on HIS OWN COPY OF THE BIBLE. Here are the FACTS:
As much as you and your ilk would like to believe you have a monopoly on the bible it is NOT the American Bible, it is usually referred to as the Holy Bible. Although with supporters like you Mr. Christ would probably prefer you did not refer to it at ALL!!
I am so glad that people like you are NOT supporting the next president of the United States. If your mother named you Dumbass would you want people holding it against you? Just because she would have been prophetic in her naming it wouldn't have meant you had anything to do with the naming.
Posted by: FreedomFreedom | October 16, 2008 6:20 AM | Report abuse
Because of Joe the Plummer, McCain started unmasking Obama the Socialist for America tonight.
It's up to McCain to continue unmasking Obama The Socialist hitting his tax plans, his spending plan, his socialist connections with Ayers, Wright, Pfleger, ACORN....24/7.
Joe the Plummer and thousands more like him are the hope for the future of this country economically. As are millions of American's who work for large companies, who strive to make the company they work for better, more profitable and to succeed so they can live the American dream.
Obama's rhetoric speaks of American workers as victims, American companies as evil and that basically we are all losers that need the nanny state to give us lives worth living.
Plus, Obama is steeped in so much corruption from voter fraud (ACORN), his own campaign funds possibly coming illegally from oversea sources and from phantom people named Doodad, Good Will and people with gibberish names, so I don't see him sealing the deal on November 4th.
Plus all these instant polls, I don't believe them for a minute. If ACORN can organize voter fraud on a mass scale in more than a dozen states, they can certainly swamp these instant polling websites very easily to skew perceptions and create a false reality.
Actually, the MSM/MSM polls I think have become kinda like modern day Tokyo Roses of sort, telling Americans all is lost for McCain, no way he can win....yada, yada, yada.
Bottom line: I don't trust Obama with money. I trust people like Joe the Plummer to create wealth and I trust John McCain to leave him alone to do it.
Posted by: sheryl7962 | October 16, 2008 6:09 AM | Report abuse
I think it's hilarious that you won't post my comments because I spoke the truth. The Washington Post is full of crap and covers up the facts as proven by censoring people's political opinions!!!
Posted by: spyyder976 | October 16, 2008 6:05 AM | Report abuse
The point was brought up that we lag behind every nation in educating our children. Obama had some good ideas about what we need to do about that and ended up by saying that the parents were going to have to take responsibility as well and turn off the T.V.
An instruction booklet does not come with the birth of your child so maybe we need to spend some money educating parents about how to raise children. Perhaps we could make it mandatory for parents to attend PTA or PSA meetings if their children have lower than a C average. Or we could give the schools more money for the number of parents who do show up at these meetings. Unfortunately I think there are too many parents like those in
the book and movie Matilda where the father says, "Why do you need to read a book when you can watch T.V."
Posted by: twcalhoun | October 16, 2008 6:05 AM | Report abuse
McCain and "Joe" gotta go.
It's OVER baby.
Posted by: pgiaquinto | October 16, 2008 5:41 AM | Report abuse
mccain flounders in frustration
joe the plumber from ohio doesn't understand tax law,he needs to hire a good corperate tax attorney who can show him the various deductable options that will LOWER his potential tax burden.
that said obama had an answer for every mccain attack especially ayers the pres.of NW university the pres of the chicago tribune, both republicans, annenburg himself an advisor to ronald reagan.
mccain DEFENDED? the man carring the obama monkey the screamers and haters claiming they are patriotic???
he makes me want to puke hiding behind the flag..the last refuge of a scoundrel
Posted by: JudgeAlan | October 16, 2008 5:37 AM | Report abuse
Obama specifically cleared up every attack McCain made very successfully if you all were paying close attention. I am confident that he will be the Tiger Woods of politics and a great president. McCain is evasive and vague for the most part and when he isn't he appears to me to be attempting to copy Obama. For example, Obama said the budget needed a scalpel. Now McCain says it needs a hatchet and a scalpel. It is obvious to me that Obama
has put a lot of thought and consideration into what he wants to do for this country. On the other hand McCain seems to be in a fog of indecision and lack of consideration for what is needed and has only thought about the economy since the last debate in which when Obama turned to him and said "John just 10 days ago you said the economy was fine," he replied nothing.
I just hope that when Obama does become president that he will get the oil companies to put pumps at the gas stations
for 85% ethanol and get the auto manufacturers to supply us the inexpensive part to use this fuel. We can't all afford 40,000 dollar electric cars and this fuel crisis has raised the price of transporting goods which business has passed on to the consumer at the increased price for us of from 25 to 40% plus we are hit with higher transportation costs in getting back and forth to work. Our cost of living has gone up 30 to 50% almost over night. We need something done about this now, not 10 years from now.
Posted by: twcalhoun | October 16, 2008 5:32 AM | Report abuse
Senator McCain lambasted Senator Obama for using attack ads to criticize Senator McCains Health plan! How is that negative campaigning? The Rovian playbook says impugn an honorable opponent's patriotism and rile up fear and hatred with misrepresentations and mud, and let that pass for public discourse. Senator McCain seemed petulant, angry and ill-contained. bjmw
Posted by: bjmw | October 16, 2008 5:30 AM | Report abuse
What the democrats seem to be overlooking in all this are the things about Ayers the terrorist are true. Obama's political career started in Ayers' living room and Obama lies when he denies it. Also there are the matter of the Obama campaign giving ACORN over $80,000.00 to try and find a way to stuff ballot boxes. In just one county ACORN people turned in over 5,000 new voter registrations. After checking the first 500 and finding every one of them false, they just set the whole stack aside so they could concentrate on REAL voter registrations. This seems to be why ACORN needed that money.
Now if these things were done for a republican's benefit, there would be screams from now till election day! But since it was for the democrats... well kids will be kids....
Obama has told so many lies in his campaign..... even dealing with his on mother. Sure she was from Kansas. But he leaves out she was an atheist and a Marxist. Or that his mother met his father in a Russian Language class. This he lies about and Senator McCain refuses to use it. Anyone can get that information. It is right there in her high school's web site.
I am a registered Democrat and old enough to remember the bombings and the trouble they caused. Obama and his friends make me ashamed of my own party.
Just call me old fashioned but honest!!! Something this current batch of democrats aren't!!!!!
Posted by: seabeesc | October 16, 2008 5:30 AM | Report abuse
John McCain can't stay away from Bush no matter how hard he tries, verbally. Why in the heck would he stick his neck out for No Child Left Behind? That was a senseless campaign slogan that got left behind as soon as Bush got into office; it wasn't even REALLY a program - does John McCain know this? The other high pio was when Obama stated directly and without fluster that he would not do business with Colombia, because they are murderers. Thank you Obama! We are so sick of our dealings with the Colombia Cartel, starting with us putting in Noriega, then taking him out, our ties to Borero and the Medillin cartel, Escobar and the long list of bad associations. John McCain looked shocked actually, that someone found that offensive. Good tell.
Posted by: therookie | October 16, 2008 5:28 AM | Report abuse
You Americans will never learn. First, your president is SELECTED by the electoral college, NOT elected by the voters. And do you really believe that the president will or can change things. He has VERY limited power. The real power is in the hands of the congress. DO to your insane lack of term limits, many of your senators and representatives have built huge self aggrandizing empires, which they are not, never, no way, ever gonna give up, Billy Bob. Now, due to plain old unbridled greed, your economy, and with it the global economy, is crashing. More and more money is being pooled in the accounts of fewer and fewer people. The ONLY way to fix this, by the way, is to spread around the wealth. Russia, China, Cuba, Iran, Burma: all very CONSERVATIVE nations. That's where you're headed. You bloody fools.
Posted by: adbadvdp | October 16, 2008 5:25 AM | Report abuse
To Deano1:
I'm glad to see someone other than myself knows this vital observation of communication law.
Even when you try to make your body language speak other than the truth, it just does not work! And it did not work for Mr.Mcnasty last night either. LOL
Posted by: midwestimports1 | October 16, 2008 5:17 AM | Report abuse
I think these debates brought out not only the worst in politics(I shudder using that word with the negative connotations it brings to people today) it has brought out the worst in Americans with what is posted this pre-election run-up. I used to admire and respected Sen. McCain for his past service(I too am a Vietnam veteran, albeit it younger than he), his past sacrifice, his past politics. But I just simply cannot excuse his new attitude nor can I vote for his new style, chosen for this election. These Karl Rove style attacks that were used on the past 2 elections(Sen McCain himself a victim of the kind of baseless attacks used by Bush's past 2 election teams)are something that the American people ARE ready for a change from. I found Sen McCain and Gov Palin do not see that these kind of attacks were one thing some of us were just plain ready to simply ignore, now. This debate particularly showed me that Sen McCain's old attitude of repsectful disagreement has changed into the 8 year-old republican strategy of "they'll believe anything we keep telling them" as "NOTHING NEW" coming from Washington. In the face of modern television, with "taping" devices in just about every home it is easier than ever to weigh what is said in the present to what was said sometime back without the "help" of news channels and campaigns trying to "spin" things. It just is not possible for this "Karl Rove theory to American Elections" trying to tell us what we can see for ourselves. Sen McCain can insist he's "change in Wasington" but we can go back to the primaries and earlier in his campaign to see him telling us how he(and I paraphrase, as my memory cannot exactly recall the quote): "I supported George Bush 90% of the time, MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE". I found tonight's debate as again showing just how much McCain's attitude has changed into Bush's in the arrogance in his smirk, in even how he could not seem to meet Sen Obama's final handshake and look directly at him. This is absolutely NO CHANGE from the past 8 years of disrespect showed by Bush and his administration to anyone who disagreed with him.
Posted by: jackfrmi | October 16, 2008 5:16 AM | Report abuse
For a person who has developed the power of observation and the gift of reasoning Mr Obama won. He has shown discipline , control and strategy. He looked like almost as if he was running for reelection; he looked like presidential. And for a person who believes whatever his/ her leader tells to him/her , like the absurdity of accusing Mr Obama of palling with terrorists, probably McCain won. His only theme was "Attack Obama no matter what, forget about real issues". He looked desperate, dishonest, repetitive and disrespectful. At the beginning of the campaign he said his campaign was going to be about honor, respect and about issues. On the contrary it was about attacks, very negative to the point of taking his audience to shout violent threats. That's not a real democratic leader.
This worldwide crisis is the beginning of the end of capitalism as we know it , which is a very bad economic system as comunism was. One example : the US shouldn't have never been dependant on foreign oil, but it was the greed of the oil industry with his schemes in Congress who kept things as they are now. And for a century no new technologies were developed to end this crippling burden for this country.
A new system is coming, a more equalitarian one. Real democracies around the world were the citizens really pay attention to what's going on with their government and vote!!!.
This is the end of neoliberalism.
Posted by: aabandres | October 16, 2008 5:13 AM | Report abuse
As to abortion, they should be legal and rare. Keeping women pregnant has been a way to control them since the beginning of history. The decision should be made by the woman involved, with the advice of her family, and or Doctor. Not any government. If you are not a woman you will never be pregnant and you have no vote on the matter. If your religous views prohibit an abortion, then don't have one. It is a choice only for the woman who is pregnant. As to partial birth abortions, It should be allowed if there is a health risk to the mother with the advice of her Physician.
Posted by: upervet | October 16, 2008 5:10 AM | Report abuse
I have been reading comments on this report for the past two hours now. I had to keep reading because I was so appalled by so many hateful, disrespectful, and rather ridiculous comments. One user commented, wondering how anyone can be so gung-ho for either Senator Obama or Senator McCain at all. Making matters worse, the lewd and base comments I have read are mostly directed at people who have commented, rather than at the two Presidential candidates. Our country is half-way in a very large Dumpster because of failed leadership and people like you.
Personally, before seeing last night's debate, I was still undecided. I am a 19 year old college student studying Pre-med, I live at home with my ultra-conservative, total pro McCain family, but I had been leaning towards Obama for some time. McCain just doesn't sit well with me, makes me feel rather anxious. As I watched last night's debate, watched Senator McCain's vile and disgusting body language and rude manners, my last vestiges of support for McCain died. His body language and speech indicated nothing but hate. Not the man I want to run my country, especially when my country is on the brink of what will be a second great depression if thing keep going the way they are going now.
Senator Obama was calm, collected, and seemed to know his stuff. This I have seen from him time and time again.
Senator Obama's idea to give college students four thousand dollars a year in exchange for community service, etc., enticed my support, as well.
Over all, I am convinced that Senator Obama won the night. Not through any spectacular comments or remarks, but simply by knowing the problems, knowing what he wants to do to fix said problems, staying on the subject, and staying cool in the face of Senator McCain's totally uncalled-for boorishness.
Senator Obama fully won my vote last night.
Now, another topic, if anyone is interested to emigrate to, say, France, to take advantage of their socialized college education system, socialized medical care, etc, or another decently running country in Europe, and would like a room mate, please let me know.
Germany would be especially acceptable. I love the German language lol.
Good night to all, and may God watch over this country and our next President.
Posted by: darkarchon019 | October 16, 2008 5:00 AM | Report abuse
People don't vote for people they don't like, pretty simple. Most people don't like McCain, even if his policies are agreeable to them.
McCain is a #%$ hole, his body language & non verbal communications signal it a mile away. The hard core right wingers love it, but they are alone with that feeling.
When McCain smiles, it's not real, because underneath he is a volcano exploding that Obama has the gall to even be on the same stage. It wreaks of arrogance.
Taps are being played over McCains campaign. Thank God! Soon the grumpy old man who can't remember how many houses he owns will be a fading memory and the rest of us can get back to restoring some dignity in our country.
Posted by: deano1 | October 16, 2008 4:58 AM | Report abuse
To PROFINDS. You say you don't want Obama, you want someone with economic and military sense. Did you vote for Bush? He had and has neither. Obamas' advisers on econamic matters are Voelker from the fed and Warren Buffet. Sounds good to me.
Posted by: upervet | October 16, 2008 4:56 AM | Report abuse
It is hard to believe that McCane on national television during the debate actually DEFENDED those that yelled our 'terrorist' and 'kill'him' during his red neck rallies.
It is clear what the Republican party has become and represents today ... is that what America is all about to McCane? Mr. McCane, at $250,000 a year, Joe is clearly Your plumber at one of your five homes, or were they seven?! And by the way, this Joe is not middle class! lol.
Obama represented to me the ethicality and the core values that America should have in an educated and polite way. And, I like the fact that he knows what middle income is. He has my vote and won this debate hands down.
Posted by: gnkollia | October 16, 2008 4:45 AM | Report abuse
After reading some of the stupid comments I have to ask everyone a question. Why do all the pictures of Jesus show him as a white man. How many white europeans were in the middle east 2000 years ago? The jews from 2000 years ago in the middle east were not european jews.
Posted by: upervet | October 16, 2008 4:41 AM | Report abuse
@ patrick10
Haven't you noticed the tendency in Republicans to find someone or something to blame for their current problems -- from Bush to McCain to all the conservative commentators who have thrown McCain under the bus already to the trolls who think Obama is al Qaeda's advance man.
None of them seem to have gotten the idea that maybe voters are not interested in their plans for America, or the smarmy way they run their campaigns.
But they won't get the message unless we do our job and VOTE. It's way too early to congratulate ourselves.
Posted by: wkorn | October 16, 2008 4:36 AM | Report abuse
I am a Nam era vet. Used to respect John alot. He is now pandering to the neocons and Religous right. No good. He now is doing what he deplored when it was done to him by Bush. No good. He picked Palin. Stupid move. My neighbor Sandy can hunt. fish, snowmobile, gut a buck, fish, or whatever and she's smarter and better looking. McCains going to cut Capital Gains in half which will go 90% to the top 5%. Under 50k will get nothing. No Good. The top 5% pay 90% of the taxes but they also control 95% of the wealth. Check out what the average top 5% pays in % of income to taxes. Very low. Bush said you can't raise taxes on the rich, they'll just get a tax attorney to help them find loop holes. Well close the loop holes, stupid. When someone walks out of a failed bank or company and says, Well $400,000,000 is an exageration it was more like only $250,000,000 that he got in a golden parachute, it is time they start carrying the load. A very big load. Vote for your life and family. Vote Obama, Biden.
Posted by: upervet | October 16, 2008 4:27 AM | Report abuse
Is it me, or does Mr.Mcnasty show a weakness in his uncontrolled communication skills which will ultimately unravel foriegn leaders trust and resolve in doing business with america soley on good will and an olive branch?
Posted by: midwestimports1 | October 16, 2008 4:25 AM | Report abuse
I certainly do not want Obama to win the presidency or even another senatorship election. Give us someone like John McCain, who has shown sense both economically and militarily, not someone like Obama, who I don't think is even sensible enough to be against all partial-birth abortions.
Posted by: PROFINDS | October 16, 2008 4:24 AM | Report abuse
Amazing how 3/4 of these comments are attacks against other commentators and not really about the debate.
Fact is... the US is in war and our economy has gone down the tubes. These problems will be there despite which candidate is selected, and THEN that candidate probably won't even try to implement the plans they've discussed to the necessary extent for anything to pass legislation. Give intelligent arguments for your choice of candidate instead of attacking each other for the choices we have the freedom to make...
I've decided not to participate in this election, and I"m considering saving what little money I can to leave this country and the anger and bitterness surrounding Americans these days.
Posted by: LoLo1 | October 16, 2008 4:13 AM | Report abuse
Nice try by McCain to appeal to Joe the Plumber but most people see through this charade. The Republican party doesn't care about the small business person or the middle class...
Posted by: RickJ | October 16, 2008 4:10 AM | Report abuse
"...Doesn't it concern any of you that Osama...would not salute our American flag...his preference of using the Islamic Our'an vs. the American Bible when being sworn in as Senator...it is laughable that we even CONSIDER a man to represent our country with a name like Barack HUSSEIN Obama..."
How did you find this website? I thought you had to have some basic intelligence to log on with a computer?
Posted by: patrick10 | October 16, 2008 4:09 AM | Report abuse
TO: The Obama Camp
Being human I guess I can afford the luxury of being boring and ignorant. I am not running for president. Obama is. He can not afford the same luxury. Don't worry. Unless there is a 666 next to Obama's name on the ballot at voting time I am pretty sure you guys will get your wish.... and we will all be one big happy family.
FROM: The Ignorant One
Posted by: clrfromcali | October 16, 2008 4:08 AM | Report abuse
When Schiffer asked about negative campaigning McCain came out and said it for everyone to here. Never heard his actual words till tonight.
The reason his campaign turned negative is McCain said he had no choice after Obama turned down his offer to meet in a dozen town hall events. Obama left him no choice.
WTF???????? Pretzel logic??
So Obama declined McCain's offer to meet and he adopts this as a rationalization to go into the gutter on Obama???
He mentioned several times earlier in the year about how he wanted an honorable campaign.
Where on earth does he find the logic on this one to go down and dirty since Obama didn't like the venues McCain proposed?
So McCain decides to take retribution on Obama? Going to get even? Going to teach him a lesson? Going scorched earth policy with his campaign and blame it on Obama for his refusal to meet with McCain?
Great judgement McCain. Great logic John. Great leadership Senator. Great idea but WTF were you thinking????
Bush got us into the Iraq war because "Saddam left him no choice." Don't think we need any more presidents who think like that.
Posted by: patrick10 | October 16, 2008 4:05 AM | Report abuse
McNASTY LOSES SKIRMISH, BUT WAR ON THE COOL ONE SLOGS ON
Posted by: scrivener50 | October 16, 2008 3:55 AM | Report abuse
"...Doesn't it concern any of you that Osama...would not salute our American flag...his preference of using the Islamic Our'an vs. the American Bible when being sworn in as Senator...it is laughable that we even CONSIDER a man to represent our country with a name like Barack HUSSEIN Obama..."
Posted by: clrfromcali | October 16, 2008 3:05 AM
This speaks volumes. You, and people like you, are what makes the Republican support base seem like such a joke...it will be years before the party can resurrect its image after this election. Aside from your ignorance of the facts (opting instead to take a stance that even FOX calls absurd), who refers to the Holy Bible as an "American Bible?" I guess the only bright side is that, if you are from California, as your ID states, your state electorate will be heavily in Obamas favor...and your opinion won't matter.
Now...who won the debate? Look at Intrade Market Research...
Obama - 85.5 (+5.5%) - 364 electors
McCain - 17.0 (-4.5%) - 174 electors
According to todays results, Obama could lose OH, PA, FL, MO, and NC and still win the election.
Posted by: 48_v | October 16, 2008 3:54 AM | Report abuse
Yes indeed, Senator Obama stayed cool throughout the dying wrath of Senator McCain. And because of that, he shined brightly.
He shined Presidential.
Posted by: lingo009 | October 16, 2008 3:44 AM | Report abuse
Chris, I'm a fan of yours, and so it makes me sad that I have to point out that you glossed over the fact that Obama also engaged in snickering and laughing under his breath while McCain spoke. You really need to go back and look at the tape and if you're the person I think you are, you'll admit that you over-looked this glaring fact. Other that this, stay inspired!
Posted by: imacommontater2 | October 16, 2008 3:43 AM | Report abuse
To wkorn:
You can be my best friend if you'd like. lol. Very entertaining, my dear.
Posted by: HelloSunshine | October 16, 2008 3:42 AM | Report abuse
It's been fun, but I have to sleep now. I can say one thing.. (please smile at this) I guess our votes will cancel your votes :-)
(and vice versa!)
Goodnight all..
Posted by: starshine1 | October 16, 2008 3:40 AM | Report abuse
clrfromcali, you're just living proof that most (NOT ALL) Republicans are ignorant.
Too bad you're not required to take a test to be able to vote. Then we wouldn't have had Bush in office for the past 8 years. Yeah you know who all voted for him, people with his same IQ.
Obama clearly won. He presented his plans clearly and kept his cool. He acted like a president should. McCain sat there most of the time with a psycho-crazy look on his face. COME ON! Is that the guy you want with his finger on the button? I'm confident Obama will win, but if, McCain pulls a miracle and wins, then God help us all!!! Just get ready to stand in the breadlines while McCain's rich cronies all sit like fat cats watching us suffer.
Posted by: enchantra07 | October 16, 2008 3:38 AM | Report abuse
@ clrfromcali
It's getting kind of boring listening to the same old lies that are peddled on the Rush Limbaugh show and the lower classes of spam.
Can't you at least be a little entertaining and come up with something original? Let me make some suggestions...
"Obama is the head of an intergalactic conspiracy that is going to kidnap and eat all us fine blond-haired God-fearing Aryans."
"Obama's mother wears army boots."
"If you take Obama's height in centimeters and multiply it by my aunt Fanny's bra size in inches, you come up with 666, the Number of the Beast. Obviously, Obama is the Antichrist."
(No wait. That one's been done, sort of. Bill Cunningham, a nutjob with a radio show in Cincinnati, said that because there are 666,000 new registered voters in Ohio, he will declare Obama to be The Beast.)
Where do you people come from? And how soon after November 4th are you going to leave?
Posted by: wkorn | October 16, 2008 3:38 AM | Report abuse
To the Rush Limbaugh flock: Don't worry about an Obama presidency. I'm sure you'll keep busy the next four years manufacturing rumors and scandals to discredit him. Then America's children can learn how valuable hate and violence can be when wielded properly.
True patriots, you are.
Posted by: raskolnikov13 | October 16, 2008 3:35 AM | Report abuse
Before you pass judgment on either candidate, look at the federal budget and see who really is getting welfare and entitlements. Look at the distribution of taxes among the American people and see who is paying more. Understand that the government is there to help support all Americans. Look at what science is telling us and understand that there is truth in science. There are many different religious groups in America teaching us all to respect each other. Look at other countries health care systems and see what works and doesn't work. Ours is obviously not working. Understand though history that church and state should be separated. These are very simple things to do. Why can't most Americans???
Posted by: repsycled | October 16, 2008 3:35 AM | Report abuse
Well starshine1:
My boyfriend also refuses to vote. He refuses to have anything to do with politics, as well. He also decided to vote in this election before we started dating earlier this year.
He started out actually liking McCain, as did I. We were actually going to put our votes in for him... But after all we've witnessed in his campaign, we're absolutely sickened by his true colors-which vibrantly shined in this debate.
&& Your boyfriend is still whipped ^__^
He probably wouldn't be voting if you weren't so politically intense.
Posted by: HelloSunshine | October 16, 2008 3:35 AM | Report abuse
"Seemed to want to throw tax dollars at every interest (schools, healthcare) and special interest (autistic children, etc)"
How do you expect these problems to be solved? Just from sheer force of will? If you want to figure out what causes autism, you'd better give some money to the brightest scientists. If you want to have better teachers, you'd better pay them.
McCain accuses Obama of wanting to throw money at every problem, but how does he figure stuff will get done? McCain can talk about how Palin cares about special needs kids, but what exactly will a spending freeze do to help kids with autism or trisomy 21?
Look, if you feel its more important for each individual to fend for himself, then go vote for McCain. Just don't think that all our problems can be solved free of cost. A free lunch may be the American Dream, but its not World Reality.
Posted by: DDAWD | October 16, 2008 3:33 AM | Report abuse
1) Before President Reagan and the GOP top-down economic plans---Wealth in the USA was mostly in the hands of 95% of all Americans. Today 5% of America's elite has 95% of the wealth of America, and the remaining 95% of Americans have 5% of the Wealth.
2) Who won are wars and whom children gave the most in time of America needs---The 95% of Americans.
3) Reagan/Bush/McC/GOP have taken more from 95% of Americans to give to the upper 5% than any other 300,000,000 persons added together in the history of America.
I hope the four are happy R-B-M-G, since they made their friends very wealthy and have almost turn America into a few rich elites controlling the life of slaves as is noted for 3rd worlds.
This top down bull has stopped at the Top 5% for increasing wealth and income, and lower the wealth and income of the remaining 95%, "because the GOP and its supports are the elite pigs". It is time to take America's top 5% families and send them into Iraq and the other terrorist countries to fight on the front lines for the next 20 days.
Sorry Mr. big McC your real friend and supporter Mr. Keating went to jail so he cannot go to the front lines. Mr. big McC you remember supporting Mr. Keating and deregulation laws as a USA Senator that caused at that time the largest financial melt-down in the USA---thanks to you and your party you now have done it two times—once in the 1990 and now in the 2000—can not wait to see what the GOP will do to top that record in 2010.
Sorry Mrs. Parlin, just pointing out real facts. But you-all can just keep making-up your bull, the good old GOP and FOX News Way.
By: Frank
Posted by: frankfama2 | October 16, 2008 3:31 AM | Report abuse
A few things still amaze me. One is the almost total lack of true debate where issues are concerned. But then again, both candidates know well the average voter neither knows, nor cares about real issues.
Another thing that amazes me is the comments made here, or elsewhere rarely refer to the real issues. Readers seem more interested in who said and did what maybe when how why and what does it all mean....etceteras. Don't readers ever understand both candidates are impotent to carry out any significant, and badly needed change?
Americans have little clue both candidates are about as far apart as butter and margarine.
We are so arrogantly out of touch with the rest of the world we don't even notice we have become as fanatic as any fanatics we claim are our enemies.
And in fact, we are our own worst enemies.
Vote for either candidate because neither has enough guts or will power to make more than a few symbolic gestures of "change". McCain says he will, and knows he won't, and; Obama says he can, but knows he really can't.
The USA...eternal stalemate or, if you know chess, perpetual repetition of moves.....In either case, it's the same old game, and it's getting more and more boring.
Posted by: ronn2 | October 16, 2008 3:30 AM | Report abuse
to Hellosunshine.. ha ha!
I have to say, whipped he is not. I don't even bring up my political views to him because he always disagrees and we might argue and it is usually not worth the fight. He has his own mind and he cares little about what I think on stuff like this. I was so amazed that he actually sat down, thought it through and decided that THIS was the election to not be quiet. He may never vote again, who knows, but it startles me that he feels the way he does, and to think that if HE gets involved, it must be bad. I really respect him on so many levels, so to have him vote speaks volumes to me.
Posted by: starshine1 | October 16, 2008 3:29 AM | Report abuse
The amount of vitriol and venom from both sides in these comments is amazing. Can't any of ya'll discuss your candidates without spouting hate rhetoric against the other side. I count myself as a non-partisan militant liberal, and normally I distance myself from elections in general, but this time around I find that the country is in such a terrible state that I must put in my vote. I have spent the better part of this political silly-season weighing and measuring both candidates and to be completely honest either option frightens me to no end. However, in the long run I have found that if I must choose then the best vote I can cast would be to vote for Bruce Campbell! Just kidding, in all honesty I dislike my options greatly, but Obama/Biden scares me less than McCain/Palin. Try dumping some hormones before you post folks, the excessive aggression is ridiculous.
Posted by: FeroKE | October 16, 2008 3:23 AM | Report abuse
clrfromcali you don't find yourself a tad bit racist and neo-crazed? Think about it...why are you highlighting that one of the candidates has a culturally diverse name - Barack HUSSEIN Obama - (ALL CAPS done by you), to highlight the fact that this is a man who has a multi-ethnic background (as so many of us in the US do - i'm swedish, scotish, american and a bunch of other stuff rolled together....married to a very 'ethnic' french man), Obama understands and respects diversity, collaboration & cultural integration and working together. Why are racist people so fearful of him? Why are racist people so fearful in general, don't we need to all bond together to solve our global crises?
Obama is a multi-racial, multi-cultural example of the beauty of humanity, of the diversity of humanity, and in this fact he is superbly ready to lead us forward in such a complex and intertwined world. His multi-culturalism gives him a unique ability to effectively work in such a diverse global economy and society.
Posted by: ready4inspiration | October 16, 2008 3:21 AM | Report abuse
For the record, McCain reminds me of Paul Simon from Simon and Garfunkel... I will vote for the guy, but if I could change anything about him I would say "relax. Don't get so worked up about saving the world and exposing Obama because people are too stupid to pay attention like that. They have to discover Obama's lies for themselves. If you try to tell them what to look at, they will be too busy being defensive and they won't listen and they won't see. If you back off, they will be more likely to open their own eyes and see his lies for themselves" It's like my teenager acts if I try to tell him the right way to do something. If I just let him fail, he will learn. The Democrats may just have to learn this lesson the hard way. We can impeach you know! The Senate and Congress can stop Obama from really destroying us if they have to. (but will they?? Who knows) If McCain would let his passion for his country show in different ways, we would see him differently. Like McCain, I see Obama's words not lining up with his actions too.. but you can't make the horse drink the water, so you can't make the liberals see the error of their logic. They may have to see it fail so that they can be once again rescued, as Reagan did the last time they tried these sorts of political maneuvers. History repeats. We have tried these things that Obama suggests before and they failed, but this is a new generation that has to see it for themselves... I hope we have enough people out there to prevent this fiasco, but if not, God is still bigger than even this!
Posted by: starshine1 | October 16, 2008 3:21 AM | Report abuse
There was a time that I greatly admired and respected Senator McCain and voted for him in two primaries. It has been painful to watch all his Faustian transformations and cynical behaviour of the last few weeks. The choice of Palin, the behaviour in the economic crisis, the employing of gutter politics that he so much detested, all gave me reason to question his judgement and now all I can feel for him is sorrow and pity. Certainly he has lost my vote, those of my family and of many friends. It has been a terrible personal dissapointment to see a man that gave so much to his country fall so much..is it hubris from the gods?
Posted by: NKanavis | October 16, 2008 3:12 AM | Report abuse
Reply to clrfromcali:
You are insane && ignorant.
Osama? I keep hearing that from every single person corupted by the McCain campign.
I kind of just want to punch you in the face. Fershure.
Posted by: HelloSunshine | October 16, 2008 3:12 AM | Report abuse
I'm not going to spend too much time on this, but McCain behaved, hmmm how can you explain it? How can I say this respectfully? No, I'll say it truthfully. McCain showed no respect at all tonight in his dealings with his colleague in the Senate.
Totally DISRESPECTFUL, BITTER, ANGRY, and CHILDISH. The throwing of the hands in the air, the rolling of the eyes, the snappy MEAN-SPIRITED REMARKS.
McCain truly earned the title of 'GRAMPY MCNASTY'. An angry bitter, mean, and ERRATIC old man. McCain emulated the sentiments of evil and vileness such as that of Sarah Palin and his followers tonite. McCain even defended those who call out for murder at his rallies.
No implication that he would cease and desist. I've never seen anyone as hate filled uncivil and close to having a STROKE as I witnessed tonite in John McCain. As for the rest of the debate and some major policies that were outlined, I at the end of this piece will have a little bit more on Senator Obama's policies and something from factcheck.org that will definitely point out the differences and who was being truthful about what?
Barack Obama answered the moderator and John McCain civilly tonite. He was respectful even when being disrespected he behaved SOBERLY AND WITH RESPECT towards John McCain, who truly did not MERIT such a response of LOVE, and almost SYMPATHY. Senator Obama BEHAVED himself WISELY.
Posted by: need4trth | October 16, 2008 3:12 AM | Report abuse
It would have been nice to see McCain not be so rude by interupting Obama on numerous occassions. When Obama was answering a question, McCain would interupt him to give his point of views. Obama never once interupted McCain in the manner that McCain did. Is this how McCain would talk to foreign leaders when in a discussion about something? Would he rudely interupt what the other person is saying?
In my opinion Obama won another debate. He kept his cool and never lost focus of the questions being asked. McCain stumbled over his own words on many occassion, never looked at the camera when giving a reply and at times it looked like he was trying to figure out an answer. And in that case he changed the subject and focused on something else.
And on a few occassion when Obama was answering a question, McCain interupted him saying he was lying, and a few times he kept right on talking and not giving Obama the chance to finish answering. Obama would look towards the moderator and gesture that he would like to make a comment. McCain never did, he'd smurk, raise his eyebrows and just but in when he felt like it.
Not very presidential in my opinion. I was undecided back in July and as a Psychic I predicted that Obama would win the election and wrote about it a few weeks ago. McCain helped me make my decision to vote for REAL change in America.
Posted by: RevMichaelCarbone | October 16, 2008 3:10 AM | Report abuse
No John McCain, you're not George Bush. You're the guy who couldn't beat George Bush and then decided to ride his coat tails in order to have the chance at your parties nomination.
Nuff said.
Obama '08.
Posted by: Change2008 | October 16, 2008 3:09 AM | Report abuse
I'm surprised at the Obama camp. Doesn't it concern any of you that Osama - oh excuse me, I mean Obama - would not salute our American flag? Not to mention his preference of using the Islamic Our'an vs. the American Bible when being sworn in as Senator. Um.... HELLO!!!! These two issues alone speak volumes. Or maybe I'm just a concerned Republican who would actually vote for a Democrat if I thought he had America's best interest at heart. I almost want Obama to win, watch our country go into a tail spin, and see who you guys "pass the buck" to when you wake up and find we have a socialized government. Yeah Obama may look better than McCain, and he is an eloquent orator -no argument. I know McCain is up against the greatest challenge a president has ever faced. I'm not even saying that he would be the one to solve our problems. But between the two...I have to say McCain. I just think after 911, it is laughable that we even CONSIDER a man to represent our country with a name like Barack HUSSEIN Obama. But, join the Obamamania, and vote for change. Hey it's just our country... and your future.
Posted by: clrfromcali | October 16, 2008 3:05 AM | Report abuse
And to starshine1:
Your boyfriend is only voting republican because he's whipped.
Posted by: HelloSunshine | October 16, 2008 3:04 AM | Report abuse
The last few weeks have given us a graphic illustration of the ills of the previous decade and the financial impact of unbridled greed and a morality driven by profit at all costs. We are starving for graceful and balanced leadership in a moment of crisis unlike anything we have seen since the Great Depression. This country is buckling under multiple deep and urgent crises including the economical/financial meltdown, the health care disaster, our strained international alliances and unnecessary wars, as well as the domestic education debacle. Obama is a brilliant, balanced, charismatic leader who gives us hope, solutions and inspiration, backed by detailed plans & policy. As president, Obama would roll his sleeves up and solve the very tough issues we are facing...this is the type of leadership we need for the future of our children and our country.
Posted by: ready4inspiration | October 16, 2008 3:04 AM | Report abuse
This comment is for DrainYou:
L...o...l <3
Posted by: HelloSunshine | October 16, 2008 3:03 AM | Report abuse
Here is what makes me smile. My boyfriend is a hard and fast democrat. He was also unwilling to vote for most of his life.. just didn't want to. Well, he registered for this election and he has vowed to vote, for MCCAIN/PALIN!! He is not a Marxist or Socialist, therefore Obama has turned him off. Obama is a real threat to everything we love about this country. I have never seen a Candidate that is so opposite of what our Constitution and our forefathers wanted or expected.. we are losing the dream! Look at the people who are on his side. They are fradulent to a fault (voter registrations) deceptive and manipulative (Acorn and Ayers), hateful (Wright) but some are just hurting and hungry and desperate and want so much for Obama's words to really reflect what he will do (but they don't- so these people will be hurt badly if he wins). Obama has probably already packed his bags for the White House, but I predict that as in the last election, the silent majority will once again rise up and take the election to a better place and down a better path because the Obama path is a false trail to a dark place.
Posted by: starshine1 | October 16, 2008 3:00 AM | Report abuse
Here are 10 good reasons why tonight John McCain sealed his fate to a sweeping landslide loss to Barck Obama on November 4th.
1) With nervous ticks and non-stop blinks, McCain barely concealed his boiling rage and loathing toward Obama.
2) Voters don't really like the idea of the steely-eyed McCain having a hatchet or a scalpel in his hands...let alone the nuclear football.
3) The Obama/McCain split-screen images reinforced the Marshall McLuhan concept of TV being kind to cool candidates and cruel to hot-headed ones.
4) Saying "I am not President Bush" helped McCain as much as Nixon declaring "I am not a crook!"
5) McCain dismissed protecting "The Health of the Mother" in abortion cases.
6) Obama showed his policy analysis and chops while McCain got the vote of Joe the Plumber.
7) Obama's smile communicates ease and self-confidence; McCain's tight smirk is a mask for anger.
8) Acorn & Ayers: If you want to sling mud, make sure the people understand and actually CARE about the dirt you're throwing.
9) Obama looked warmly at voters in the camera; McCain forgot the camera was in the room.
10) At the end of the Reagan/Bush era, America is No Country for Old Angry Men
Posted by: DrainYou | October 16, 2008 2:59 AM | Report abuse
McCain's undignified behavior, irritating attitude, comical body language and nutty reactions remind me of Chief Inspector Dreyfus in the Pink Panther series.
God help America if this man sits in the Oval Office.
Posted by: ceo2 | October 16, 2008 2:58 AM | Report abuse
Personally, I couldn't stop looking at Sen. McCain's melenoma in his left cheek. Between that, his rude interruptions, and his pompous laughs and sneers, and the sharpie pen he kept taking notes with, I couldn't stand even looking at the right side of my television screen. Sen. McCain was outright rediculous in this debate.
Durring the whole debate, I was formulating a plan to pimp-slap him while still getting away with it. My boyfriend agrees entirely.
Obama never lost his cool once. McCain was attacking him left and right, but he was like an ice cube in a freezer. He never lost his temper. I respect him for that.
Obama wants to talk about the real issues, while McCain wants to attack Obama. Obviously we realize who the more mature candidate is. Though Sen. McCain beats Sen. Obama in years, Obama far surpasses McCain in maturity.
I find McCain pompous, idiotic, and mean. He's a mean old fart.
This is my first year voting.
I just turned 18, so, being a girl who doesn't know her politics... I did my research.
I believe Sen. Obama won the debate hands down. But who am I to say-I'm just a silly 18 year old girl.
If you would like to reply-
E-MAIL: firstname.lastname@example.com
Posted by: HelloSunshine | October 16, 2008 2:54 AM | Report abuse
Those 45 nuclear power plants are going to take longer then 10 years to build. That's if they get the permits. Right now NP is one of those "not in my back yard". The WORLDS oil supply is conservatively going to run out in 20-30 years. Instead of investing that money into some rich CEO's pockets, who's going to a retreat in the Bahamas we should be investing it in our country. The only thing that "buy out" is going to do is make the government owners of houses no one can afford to live in. We are so dependent on oil in EVERY faucet of our lives that we have no idea what to substitute in its place. We are at the point in our history where we have no "natural resources" left and need to discover a resource that is unlimited.
Posted by: FrankBaum | October 16, 2008 2:53 AM | Report abuse
I am a small business owner and I agree that we all have to do our share. I am in business for myself, but my business would be nothing without 5 full time employees making decent salaries.
Obama is telling it like it needs to be. Too many people are left out, unable, or unwilling to get proper health coverage. This actually does cost us all more through higher premiums. If you want to call it socialized medicine - who cares as long as it solves an ongoing problem.
It is odd to see John McCain running to be leader of the government, but purportedly wanting to hatchet the budgets so drastically that he'd be captain of a seriously compromised organization.
Posted by: DonJulio | October 16, 2008 2:53 AM | Report abuse
McCain won it. He did great on the economy and made great points elsewhere. Obama may not want to admit that the Democrats like him in congress and other liberals are mostly responsible for the current economic crisis and want to make those kinds of policies into the permanent policies of this country, but McCain showed wisdom on the economic front that Obama may never have.
Posted by: PROFINDS | October 16, 2008 2:49 AM | Report abuse
To Flotsam:
OK, darnit, I'm supposed to be catching some zzzz's! Whether Obama wins or if McCain wins, we as Americans must show a united front & support for our President. Yes, Dems & Republicans are fighting & bickering now, pre-election, but when it's all over, we must show the world that Americans are united, through thick & thin. So, yes, of course I will give him a chance IF he wins. And you sound like hopefully you would do the same if McCain wins. "UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL". (oops, sorry, can8tiv, didn't mean to yell.) OK, this time it's goodnight FOR REAL!!!
Posted by: eevie010166 | October 16, 2008 2:47 AM | Report abuse
Were the balance between the two equal before the debate started, McCain would have won. However, this is too little too late at this point in the campaign. Had McCain come out swinging like this a couple debates ago, we might be looking at a different campaign right now.
Posted by: blert | October 16, 2008 2:46 AM | Report abuse
I can't wait to see Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and the rest of those clowns in the White House all sitting around drinking cognac with a bubble up back. What next?
Posted by: lvtoplay9 | October 16, 2008 2:45 AM | Report abuse
Frank, that's another thing. McCain says he wants to build 45 nuclear reactors to reduce independence on foreign oil. 70% of oil is used for transport. Are we going to run nuclear cars then? OK, I'm being facetious, but you get my point?
Posted by: Dark_Star | October 16, 2008 2:31 AM
What do you think is going to generate the power for those plug-in hybrids and electric vehicles? Rainbows and pixie dust? Also, the natural gas that's used to power electric generators can then be switched to being used as an automotive fuel.
Wind & solar aren't very reliable or cost effective and won't be for the foreseeable future. That's why those technologies rely on huge govt subsidies and tax rebates for adoption. Nuclear energy is a proven technology that generates huge amounts of electricity around the world. If we truly want to be energy independent, ALL available technologies need to be used. That includes research into renewable energy, nuclear & hydro electric power, drilling for more domestic oil, utilizing tar sands, etc.
Posted by: flatlander1992 | October 16, 2008 2:42 AM | Report abuse
Well I'd have to say both Obama and McCain lived up to my expectations. McCain was all over the place in his answers, tripped over his own feet trying to push his answers on viewers, smirked, interupted constantly, and in general looked desperate. He had nothing new to say and tried to cover this up by attacks on Mr. Obama.
Mr. Obama showed reall class, even though I would have liked to see him give McCain back some barbs, but once again class wins. Mr. Obama had specific answers, stuck to the question at hand, and folks guess what, he spoke to you by facing the camera directly. McCain was too busy getting all his many disparate opinions and thoughts out to the auditoreum to remember his much larger audience, the TV viewing one.
All in all while neither candidate could genuinely be said to be a deffinitive winner, this certainly was not McCain's most shinning moment by any stretch of immagination. Mr. Obama held his own, and came off as the candidate with some real answers, who didn't have to resort to the nastiness of McCain.
Posted by: wendyo1 | October 16, 2008 2:41 AM | Report abuse
Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn, and caldron bubble.
Fillet of a fenny snake,
In the caldron boil and bake;
Enter Sarah Palin.
Posted by: probama | October 16, 2008 2:36 AM | Report abuse
Wake up People Obama is a wolf in sheeps clothing,The reason the rest of the world wants him in office is so they can come in and blow us away, If he is in office we might as well get used to being slowly socialized and before you know it the goverment will be telling you when and were you can crap in the goverment housing they issue you. This talk about sharing the wealth, I own a small business and I work hard day and alot of nights and i dont have a issue on helping people that are in real need but not somebody that is able bodied and wont get of the couch!!! My middle finger is up to you Obama I salute you!!! Mcain has my vote!! oh ya the media except fox are always trying to make republicans look bad i guess its because we have enough backbone not to be conformed and we stand by our convictions!!!
Posted by: sc_dee_33_1966 | October 16, 2008 2:35 AM | Report abuse
I've been a Republican for the past 15 years but this election I am voting for Obama, he makes the case for all that needs fixing. When he discusses the grass roots, he is talking about ALL of us participating in this movement, our country is in serious trouble; educationally, financially and our astute reputation. The patriotic rhetoric is numbing to say the least, An American is one who embraces this country for all that good and changes what is not. These are my reasons for voting for Obama:
Educationally, the U.S. colleges are still rank high in the world but the rest of our educational system ranks low in the developed world. Other countries are mandating education for all, this is not the American educational system where some schools are better, and all schools are up to par. McCain would rather for some of America's children to make it and others do not. For the betterment of the country, it would be best if the focus was placed on all of our kids having the opportunity to growing up in this global economy and being able to contribute.
American Corporations may have the highest tax brackets in the world but there are so many loop holes which these same corporations enjoy which bring that 36% way done. Having a side business that is incorporated, I know the law and the loopholes that are available. I do not feel sorry for large businesses and you shouldn't either. In this stressed financial situation, someone is going to pay more in taxes, I rather the businesses.
Posted by: dashing31 | October 16, 2008 2:35 AM | Report abuse
It's supposed to be Love Thy Neighbor, not Love Thy Money!!!
Posted by: cubbyblue10 | October 16, 2008 1:57 AM
It's extremely difficult to "love thy neighbor" when they are using the Federal Govt to rob you at gun point to support their sloth.
The entitlement system in this country has become a hideous perversion that needs to be ended NOW! It turns people against each other and only really serves the politicians and the bureaucrats that support the programs. If it wasn't for all the government programs and regulations meant to help the poor, we wouldn't be in the economic mess that we're in. Doing more of the same is only going to screw things up worse.
I'm all for people who want to help others, but it has to be a personal gesture, not something that gets funneled through a govt agency. Only when it's a personal act will the people who are getting the help will realize that it is a gift from the other person actually cares about them and wants them to succeed. Govt programs like those that Obama wants to expand pervert the concept of helping one's fellow man. It's no longer a gift, but something that is stolen by a faceless bureaucracy and something the recipient believes they have a right to because they have a pulse. It's also a reason why these programs have such a low success rate and really just turn people into parasites.
A vote for Obama is a vote against the freedom and opportunities that our ancestors believed and fought for! It will be an administration that all of us will regret. McCain is far from ideal, but is much better than Obama.
Posted by: flatlander1992 | October 16, 2008 2:33 AM | Report abuse
To: can8tiv
I know I said I was going to catch some zzzz's, but I just noticed your hypocritical comment, which begged a response.
You state that I was "shouting away in CAPS", eh?
To quote you (& this is literally copying & pasting your exact words): "McCain's reactions are that of someone who feels he's going to be cheated out of a prize he DESERVES..." Oh dear, you used CAPS; you yelled at me! (tear drops falling...) I guess you are the only one allowed to use CAPS - but when someone else uses CAPS you critize. HMMM...typical dem, typical liberal.
And yes, it is insulting my intelligence (& everyone else's) when someone implies that we are racist simply because we don't vote for Obama, so I used CAPS to stress my annoyance at their ridiculous comment. What, you libs aren't happy with trying to control our vote by trying to intimidate us into voting for Obama, you have to also try to control our writing style? Deal with it and find something intelligent to say instead of trying to shift the focus over to my writing style.
Posted by: eevie010166 | October 16, 2008 2:33 AM | Report abuse
Debate or no debate.. do you want someone who has terrorists for friends, hires a group to sign up dead and incarcerated people to pose as new voters-denies he hired them until it is proven that he did, then claims the money was really for lights until it is proven the money was for voter registrations then changes his story a third time and says "oh, I meant for them to only help during the preliminaries" (I don't let my kids pull that stunt, why should I let a grown man try it!), hangs out for decades with an angry hateful man of god (little g) and then when called on it, says I never really listened to the guy (then why sit in the pew year after year?Huh), won't admit he attended Muslim schools, is afraid to say his middle name in public and won't allow anyone else to say it either, helped cause a race war in another country where women and children were massacred, and every time someone calls him on his lies he yells, "you're a racist" because he knows people will back down from fear of the label.. claims that taxing the corporate world and upper class can't possibly affect the little guy (because they won't turn around and raise prices on us to make up for their losses!), doesn't even know how many States are in the US... doesn't own a dog, etc
Or do you want a person whose worst mistakes never put his country in physical jeopardy, his inconsistencies were honest errors or genuine misunderstandings and not deliberate falsehoods, who has seen govt. work and not work and has experience to say he has "been there and either done or seen that"... has lots of dogs, and his only bothersome trait is that he seems to be unable to say the name of the person in the other party (it's like Beetlejuice.. never say the name three times!).. I prefer to choose the guy who stumbles making honest efforts rather than choose the guy who lies, lies, lies, and then thinks we will listen to his words and not even consider his actions....
But that is just my opinion.
Posted by: starshine1 | October 16, 2008 2:33 AM | Report abuse
Lol, did I say independence on foreign oil? Must be time to go to bed.
Posted by: Dark_Star | October 16, 2008 2:33 AM | Report abuse
Frank, that's another thing. McCain says he wants to build 45 nuclear reactors to reduce independence on foreign oil. 70% of oil is used for transport. Are we going to run nuclear cars then? OK, I'm being facetious, but you get my point?
Posted by: Dark_Star | October 16, 2008 2:31 AM | Report abuse
McCain did not win; Obama did not lose. So go figure.
Posted by: probama | October 16, 2008 2:27 AM | Report abuse
I've heard too much talk about energy. Americans can't afford the house they live in and definitely can't afford 10 thousand dollars for a solar/wind powered system. We have the means to be self sufficient but not the money. Most of us can't wait 20 years for the solar/wind systems to pay off. We need help now. Instead we're getting a 40 dollar coupon for a box so we can watch tv in a house we won't have for long.
Posted by: FrankBaum | October 16, 2008 2:26 AM | Report abuse
I am neither democrat nor am I a republican. But what I can say is that my vote is definately hands down going to Obama/Biden. I mean seriously, the things that people have been listing for reasons to vote for McCain/Pailin are indeed the same things that were listed as reasons to vote for Bush/Cheney. If that isn't a sign then I don't have a clue what could be clearer. Obama/Biden all the way! I am tired of being poor and broke! Obama is right, "It's time for a change!!!"
Posted by: SweetLady601 | October 16, 2008 2:23 AM | Report abuse
hey ktm525xc - Americans can do a lot when we put our minds to it. It's a question of will. Universal health care is entirely doable, and it's pathetic that the US is the only prominent nation without it. You may find it surprising that most Americans saw Obama win tonight - but he was clear about his policies, and his policies are sound. If he wins (and I'll be fighting for it along with many others), try to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Posted by: Flotsam | October 16, 2008 2:21 AM | Report abuse
Gandalf, I'm for the Red Sox.
Posted by: Dark_Star | October 16, 2008 2:20 AM | Report abuse
Thank goodness we are finished with these "debates." This one has changed nothing - except to generate some respect for the moderator.
McCain just mouthed the same old Republican talking points -- cut taxes, freeze spending, don't worry about the deficits, drill off-shore, Sarah's great and I'm not Bush. He was forced to drag out the Ayers "guilt by distant and nebulous association" shibboleth and threw in the silly ACORN distaction for good measure. Inspiring!
Obama worked on his smooth and unflapable image and slipped in a bit more substantive detail about his economic strategy, energy plans, jobs programs, healthcare costs, women's issues, education programs, Supreme Court selection philosophy, and the environment. Same old intelligence and comprehensive grasp of the real issues.
Nothing new.
Just 20 more days and then we can begin getting ready for an Obama Presidency.
I wonder who will win the Series?
Posted by: gandalfthegrey | October 16, 2008 2:18 AM | Report abuse
Goodnight eevie010166 - good for you to vote your conscience; I'll certainly do the same, and I firmly believe Obama is going to be better for this country. If he wins, I hope you'll give him a chance to prove himself to you.
Posted by: Flotsam | October 16, 2008 2:16 AM | Report abuse
McCain won the debate hands down it was a total slam dunk on Obama i have no idea how people are saying that Obama won either they had no clue on half the stuff they were debating about or they just spaced out during the whole thing. Do you guys not relize that 90% of what Obama is saying he is going to do is not even possible, like universal health care lol come on that is a joke it is not possible. Do u Obama supports not relize that he is going to tax the crap out of all US citizens which will cause us to go into a DEPRESSION!!! He is lying to u when he says that he is going to lower taxes. Bill Clinton said the same thing when he was running for president and guess what ended up really happening much higher taxes come on all u obama luvers it is basic econmoics.
Posted by: ktm525xc | October 16, 2008 2:16 AM | Report abuse
McDisrespectful was.....RUDE...HOW DARE A POMPOUS OLD FKD UP GRAMPS BELITTLE ABORTION.......OBAMA WAS THGTFUL, RESPECTFULL, INTELLEGIENT, GAVE A CLEAR ANSWER...... HOW CAN AN OLD IMPETIENT WHITE MAN TELL ME WHAT I CAN AND CANNOT DO W/MY BODY.....
Posted by: Hheeaatt | October 16, 2008 2:14 AM | Report abuse
To wtcb06: Did you really have post that "W" garbage propaganda three times? Seems like you gop's have to repeat yourselves three or four or even five times to get your point across. It did not do your boy McCain any good either.
By the way, can't wait to the movie "W"!!
Posted by: cubbyblue10 | October 16, 2008 2:14 AM | Report abuse
My Mom is devoutly Catholic and very conservative. She had not voted during the past several presidential elections, but she surprised me the other day and told me that she wanted to vote during this election. Why? She said that this election will define the next generations, and that it will greatly affect the lives of her many grandchildren and great grandchildren. She went on to surprise me further by stating that she was voting for Barack Obama because "he is very smart" and is what the country needs to fix this mess that the Bush administration is leaving behind. I think "she" is very smart as well. BTW, she will be turning 90 years young next month.
Posted by: Kimo_Pono | October 16, 2008 2:13 AM | Report abuse
Goodnight all you liberals out there in fantasy land! I have a job to go to in the A.M. I'm sure I will get a restful night's sleep once I gently pull the (liberal) barbs out of my flesh! (sniff, sniff...you hurt my feelings...NOT!) Just know this: You won't change my mind about voting for McCain/Palin! That goes for me and millions of other McCain/Palin supporter. Goodnight All! Happy Quarrelling!
Posted by: eevie010166 | October 16, 2008 2:12 AM | Report abuse
The beauty of it is that many comments from Republicans show just how extreme, and even hateful, they can be. Take the one about Obama supporters cities being bombed. The writer delighted in thinking how he would shove something down their throats. Was he really talking about his fellow Americans?
The Democrats, it seems to me, posted mostly thoughful, intelligent comments. I believe that statistics show that liberal minded people are more educated that republican voters.
Interesting, isn't it?
Posted by: Dark_Star | October 16, 2008 2:12 AM | Report abuse
the truth always hurts these dems and they are baby losers. you lost hands down to mccain. give it up and admit defeat.
Posted by: astar4u | October 16, 2008 2:12 AM | Report abuse
Mccain was a good attack dog but appeared angry, erratic, grumpy and downright scary at times. Obama was cool,calm and consistent. Obama has the ability to clearly and concisely explain his position on critical big issues, while McCain spent most of his time on small issues that most people don't care about. One thing that really resonated with me was McCain's comment on women's 'health' as a ridiculous and outrageous reason for abortion. I think that is way extreme and his tone when referring to it was frankly condescending and disrespectful to women. I'm a woman and I'm offended Sen. McCain!!!
Posted by: lindlk | October 16, 2008 2:11 AM | Report abuse
All I here through the sniveling right-wing supporters and their accusations of sounding like sheep is a crying voice possibly asking this question?
"Why couldn't we have found a candidate with hopeful fresh ideas?"
BGJONES- Don't get me wrong, I respect and thank all of those who have served our country and shed blood for our freedom. But you say McCain will take us to higher ground. Explain to us what you believe that higher ground to be based on McCain's political agenda. Please don't refer to anything that has already been happening for the last 8 yrs. We have all had enough.
sc_dee_33_1966- You make it sound as if homeland security is going to shut down when Obama wins. That comment about everybody wanting him in so the world can blow us up is that of an idiot. And I work hard every day and night too, along with the rest of the working class who still hold a job by sheer luck. I think your understanding of policy is of pure ignorance. I'm tired of having to work harder each passing day to give the upper-class another tax break. Sounds to me you should understand this as well as I do.
Posted by: brian_D_atw | October 16, 2008 2:11 AM | Report abuse
eevie010166, if those of the center to the left who post here are the idiots out of touch with the mainstream that obviously supports McCain and Palinothing, then why are you so excited? You're shouting away in CAPS and just short of raving - all that over people whose views don't really matter?
You ought to laughing at them, not screaming. The fact that you're bothered by what they have to say is all the more telling - you feel the barbs and needles.
McCain's reactions are that of someone who feels he's going to be cheated out of a prize he DESERVES, and by "that one" at that. The bile is rising to his craw which explains why he looks and grimaces the way he does.
He will never accept that he has run an idiotic, miserable campaign and has made some incredibly bad decisions, not the least of which is "that one" with the puffed up hair and puffed up credentials.
John (and eevie010166), take responsibility for your blunders and live with it.
Posted by: can8tiv | October 16, 2008 2:09 AM | Report abuse
Bob Schieffer did a spectacular job as moderator. I thought Obama, though it wasn't his strongest performance, easily came out on top. His answers were more substantive than McCain's, and he was more poised, calm, reasoned, and presidential.
I thought McCain had his best debate, but the Joe the Plumber thing was patronizing, and we got to hear more meaningless assertions of "I know how to fix that" (Kudos to Schieffer for calling him on it).
One exchange really surprised me though. Out of the gate McCain seemed to be trying to appear more collegial, telling Obama "nice to see you again", but after Obama brought up the hate speech shouted at recent Palin rallies, McCain refused to repudiate the behavior and went on at length about how the attendees of his and Palin's gatherings are such fine Americans and beyond reproach. I'm sure most of them are, but the implication was that he included in that assessment people yelling things like "terrorist," "traitor," and "kill him!" And he had the balls to act hurt by John Lewis's remarks comparing McCain to George Wallace? I thought it showed quite an appalling moral blind spot.
All in all the debate only reinforced the bad impression I've formed of McCain in recent months. Even though some of what he said resonated with me, he comes across as shallow - driven mostly by personal ambition and self-image (which seems to have little in common with the real McCain).
Posted by: Chip_M | October 16, 2008 2:07 AM | Report abuse
McCain is the most disrespectful, angry candidate... I've ever seen.
I watched the debate with over 250 students and others at a non-partisan watch party at Minnesota University Moorhead, and McCain was booed and laughed at several times (especially when he kept bringing up Joe the Plumber). Lots of heads were wagging in disbelief and utter amazement at McCain's physical responses (facial expressions and body language) to when Obama was speaking.
In the moderated discussion following the debate, several people shared how they felt McCain's tone had really turned them off (one person even calling McCain "childish").
One woman, who my wife had talked to prior to the debate, and who had told my wife that she was leaning McCain because she is strong pro-life, grabbed the microphone to tell us that she felt only Obama had properly addressed the most pressing issues (the economy, healthcare, education, etc.) and that she had changed her mind and would be voting for Obama!
They did a straw poll (raised hands) and a quick count for McCain was about 10-15. There were probably close to 140 for Obama, and about 30 undecided.
Jake Tapper, on Nightline, said that McCain had brought his "A" game, and put out the line(my paraphrase) that "this is the guy that his handlers had wanted the public to see - the controlled and tough McCain everyone's come to know in the senate."
What a crock! McCain was controlled? McCain's bizarre facial expressions and body language, and his clear disrespect and utter disdain for Barack Obama, showed an old man that has such a NASTY temperament that he can barely control himself. No wonder he's had to be restrained by colleagues on the senate floor!
I was extremely proud of how Barack answered questions in a measured and detailed fashion! I will be so proud to have him as my president!
Oh yeah, another really good thing that came out of attending this event is that I was able to inform many students of our Pro-Obama Rally to counter Todd Palin's appearance here in Moorhead on Friday at a local sports retailer (where the "First Dude of Alaska" and champion snow-machine racer will be signing autographs). It looks like we should have a really good turnout that should get some good publicity for Obama!
Posted by: DrainYou | October 16, 2008 2:07 AM | Report abuse
One more comment to wtbc06 @ 1:53 AM: Bush did not respond to 9/11 with "valor, courage and conviction" at all. The point of terrorism is to generate enough chaos and fear that the culture being attacked begins to undermine itself. Bush's response to terrorism has been to play directly into the terrorists agenda, e.g. unraveling our civil liberties, supporting torture, and perpetrating an absurd war that had nothing to do with 9/11. The better response to terrorism is to attack it at its roots which takes a heck of a lot more skill and brains than simple fear mongering and us vs. them mentalities.
Posted by: Flotsam | October 16, 2008 2:06 AM | Report abuse
Speaking as a former fighter pilot in the United States Air Force, and as a contemporary of Senator John McCain, I can tell you that Senator Obama absolutely did the right thing by not stooping to John McCain's level.
In the military, I learned that you cannot demand respect. You earn it by being calm, rational, intelligent, and self confident. Senator Obama was all of that tonight.
Senator McCain came off as agitated, irritable, angry, and often confused. He is the last person that I would have wanted as either a flight leader or a wing man- and I surely don't want him as President.
We do not need a President who tries to "win" by attacking their opponents. We want a President who leads by example, respects others who differ from themselves, is calm, deliberate, and rational. Senator McCain is none of those things, and never has been.
Senator Obama showed all the Presidential qualities our country so desperately needs. He shows respect for others and respect for himself. He will make a great President.
Vietnam Veteran
Khe Sanh 1968
Posted by: Luke2 | October 16, 2008 2:05 AM | Report abuse
check the facts ladys and gents for they speak for themselves at this link. http://crooksandliars.com/silentpatriot/mccain-attended-acorn-rally
Posted by: owaggoner | October 16, 2008 2:02 AM | Report abuse
As I read all of the posts on this forum, I see many varied opinions of who won this debate, and who should be our next President. The only thing any of you seem to agree on is what a horrible President George W.Bush is and has been. I am sure most of you have formed this opinion based on his handling of Iraq and our current economic crisis. I would like to remind you all that another U.S. President fell subject to similar scrutiny. President Harry S.Truman was highly scrutinized for his decision to drop the Atomic bomb on Japan during WWII, and was considered at the time to be "the worst President" in our nation's history. Now 50+ years later, Mr. Truman is touted not only as being highly effective in office, but is considered to be one of "our best Presidents ever".
I am a McCain supporter, however I fear that Sen. McCain will NOT win this election, which I think in time will prove to be a tragedy for our nation....and the world.
Once, Sen. Obama becomes our President, due to his inexperience and questionable loyalties, the face of our nation will CHANGE just like he says....but NOT for the better!!!
When our nation is overrun with terrorists, and others that hate our way of life; you people that hate George W. Bush and the republican's staunch resistance to terrorist activities, will wish you had voted for STRENGTH instead of "Change"
And as far as our economic crisis goes, we are at war folks, freedom isn't free, if you people would just realize that we all have to pay a price for our way of life and suck it up and not panic; stay the course and America will survive.
Here is a ironic similarity, not since Truman has a President had to deal with an attack on American soil...until President George W. Bush. Given the circumstances, he responded with valor, courage and conviction.
50 years from now when our children and grandchildren read about how, even though hated at the time, that George W. Bush, was a strong and competent leader........hopefully they will be reading it in English and not Arabic!!!
Think about what you vote REALLY means and send John McCain to the White House!!
Posted by: wtbc06 | October 16, 2008 2:02 AM | Report abuse
I think Senator McCain has secured two votes, one from Joe the Plumber and one from Joe SixPack.
The rest of us who care about the economy, who prioritize energy independence, health care reform and education and who feel a physical sense of ailment and sickness at the memory of the last eight years need to cast our votes in favor of an intelligent, eloquent, caring and compassionate man, the "cool hand at the tiller" who even McCain feels we need. That "cool hand" is certainly not Senator McCain.
Posted by: Penmaiden | October 16, 2008 2:01 AM | Report abuse
McCain won hands down it was a total blowout against Obama i dont see how peaople could even think that Obama won its almost as if they spaced out through the whole entire debate.
Posted by: ktm525xc | October 16, 2008 2:01 AM | Report abuse
wtbc06 @ 1:53 AM: First, Bush is *not* comparable to Truman. Second, why do you claim that Obama has "questionable loyalties"? Obama is a true patriot who wants to work for the betterment of our nation. You don't have to agree with his policies, but cool it with the venom.
Posted by: Flotsam | October 16, 2008 2:01 AM | Report abuse
I would like to point out that the reason we had a budget surplus under Clinton is because he closed down every other military base out there. This actually put people out of work not gave them jobs. It also put the U.S. in a position where the world thought we were weak and we were attacked repeatedly because of it. Obama says he will do all kinds of stuff for the middle class but doesn't back it up with anything solid. He claims he understands what it is to be poor but he just wants to spend and spend, where did he get that habit? He claims to be the candidate for the common man and yet he wants to impose retrictions and tell the common man what rights he can or can not have. Notice he didn't mention all the rights he wants to take away from us just the one he wants to maintain. Give women their abortion rights but don't take away my right to protect my family with the hand hidden behind your back. Obama is a pretty face with a questionable background hiding behind the idea of change even though he gives it no substance.
Posted by: ktuncia | October 16, 2008 1:59 AM | Report abuse
Why must the McCain supporters who submit comments express such vitriol for the Obama supporters? This becomes a better discussion when everyone keeps their negative emotions to themselves.
On another note, I would like to agree with Chris Cillizza's assessment of Bob Schieffer's performance as moderator. He encouraged the debaters to engage one another, asked probing follow-up questions, and kept the debate moving at a relatively crisp pace. Bravo.
Posted by: williandres99 | October 16, 2008 1:59 AM | Report abuse
As I read all of the posts on this forum, I see many varied opinions of who won this debate, and who should be our next President. The only thing any of you seem to agree on is what a horrible President George W.Bush is and has been. I am sure most of you have formed this opinion based on his handling of Iraq and our current economic crisis. I would like to remind you all that another U.S. President fell subject to similar scrutiny. President Harry S.Truman was highly scrutinized for his decision to drop the Atomic bomb on Japan during WWII, and was considered at the time to be "the worst President" in our nation's history. Now 50+ years later, Mr. Truman is touted not only as being highly effective in office, but is considered to be one of "our best Presidents ever".
I am a McCain supporter, however I fear that Sen. McCain will NOT win this election, which I think in time will prove to be a tragedy for our nation....and the world.
Once, Sen. Obama becomes our President, due to his inexperience and questionable loyalties, the face of our nation will CHANGE just like he says....but NOT for the better!!!
When our nation is overrun with terrorists, and others that hate our way of life; you people that hate George W. Bush and the republican's staunch resistance to terrorist activities, will wish you had voted for STRENGTH instead of "Change"
And as far as our economic crisis goes, we are at war folks, freedom isn't free, if you people would just realize that we all have to pay a price for our way of life and suck it up and not panic; stay the course and America will survive.
Here is a ironic similarity, not since Truman has a President had to deal with an attack on American soil...until President George W. Bush. Given the circumstances, he responded with valor, courage and conviction.
50 years from now when our children and grandchildren read about how, even though hated at the time, that George W. Bush, was a strong and competent leader........hopefully they will be reading it in English and not Arabic!!!
Think about what you vote REALLY means and send John McCain to the White House!!
Posted by: wtbc06 | October 16, 2008 1:59 AM | Report abuse
That comment by McCain about not wanting to "spread the wealth" really says it all about the GOP. It's all about their money, not our money, their money!! It's all for one, and none for all!! Every man and woman for themselves!! Standard Operating Procedure for the Grand Old Party (at least old as in ways that is) SOP for the GOP!!
I haven't seen any Brinks trucks full of money or moving vans full of possessions following any funeral motorcades.
Good old boy Freddie Thompson should be McCain's running mate. He made similar comments at their blowout convention.
What happened with caring about one another in our country? At least some people do, and it's not the gop's!
It's supposed to be Love Thy Neighbor, not Love Thy Money!!!
Posted by: cubbyblue10 | October 16, 2008 1:57 AM | Report abuse
Sen. McCain tried his best but his best is not good enough and his policies are basically elitist, oldschool, anti-people. Obama is more realistic, people oriented, cool and calculating. He surely won the debate.
Posted by: ioezera | October 16, 2008 1:54 AM | Report abuse
As I read all of the posts on this forum, I see many varied opinions of who won this debate, and who should be our next President. The only thing any of you seem to agree on is what a horrible President George W.Bush is and has been. I am sure most of you have formed this opinion based on his handling of Iraq and our current economic crisis. I would like to remind you all that another U.S. President fell subject to similar scrutiny. President Harry S.Truman was highly scrutinized for his decision to drop the Atomic bomb on Japan during WWII, and was considered at the time to be "the worst President" in our nation's history. Now 50+ years later, Mr. Truman is touted not only as being highly effective in office, but is considered to be one of "our best Presidents ever".
I am a McCain supporter, however I fear that Sen. McCain will NOT win this election, which I think in time will prove to be a tragedy for our nation....and the world.
Once, Sen. Obama becomes our President, due to his inexperience and questionable loyalties, the face of our nation will CHANGE just like he says....but NOT for the better!!!
When our nation is overrun with terrorists, and others that hate our way of life; you people that hate George W. Bush and the republican's staunch resistance to terrorist activities, will wish you had voted for STRENGTH instead of "Change"
And as far as our economic crisis goes, we are at war folks, freedom isn't free, if you people would just realize that we all have to pay a price for our way of life and suck it up and not panic; stay the course and America will survive.
Here is a ironic similarity, not since Truman has a President had to deal with an attack on American soil...until President George W. Bush. Given the circumstances, he responded with valor, courage and conviction.
50 years from now when our children and grandchildren read about how, even though hated at the time, that George W. Bush, was a strong and competent leader........hopefully they will be reading it in English and not Arabic!!!
Think about what you vote REALLY means and send John McCain to the White House!!
Posted by: wtbc06 | October 16, 2008 1:53 AM | Report abuse
Posted by: donthedean | October 16, 2008 1:53 AM | Report abuse
Oh, eevie010166 - now you're just being silly. Everyone's vote counts, and everyone should vote their conscience, but the odds are very much in Obama's favor. The race will likely tighten between now and election day, but the democrats' goal should be to fight hard for a landslide victory. At this rate, I think the odds are looking better and better... as clearly indicated by the polls. (-;
Posted by: Flotsam | October 16, 2008 1:53 AM | Report abuse
Tonight, John McCain showed he doesn't care about women's health when he described protecting "the health of the woman" as "extreme." John McCain doesn't seem to understand that women's health matters. He blatantly showed that he doesn't trust women to decide what is in the best interest of their own health. Barack Obama, on the other hand, stood up for women's health.
Posted by: ghuntcustom | October 16, 2008 1:51 AM | Report abuse
why did McCain keep saying Sarah Palin knew about autism and it's effects on the family. she just had a baby with down syndrome and hasn't spent a great deal of time with him yet.
autism is not down syndrome.
Posted by: YUTZ | October 16, 2008 1:51 AM | Report abuse
Obama clearly won. McCain just isn't his equal when it comes to intellect, poise, or policies. McCain also gets this annoying little smirk on his face like he thinks he's scoring points when he's just using canned lines that get him nowhere.
What rings most hollow is McCain's claim to a "country first" theme when his selection of Palin proves that he's all about election-only and country-be-damned. If he had wanted to pick a right-wing evangelical, he could have at least picked a smart, experienced one (Huckabee). Now, he's just slinging mud and grabbing at straws. The problem is that once voters see you for what you are -- an erratic man with nothing but old retread GOP policies to offer, you can't change that perception. America has decided; stick a fork in McCain, he's done.
Posted by: dolph924 | October 16, 2008 1:51 AM | Report abuse
Obama reminds me of the dignity of Eisenhower. His calmness. Obama reminds me of Kennedy. His oratory. Obama reminds me of George Washington. His ability to set a direction for the nation. Obama reminds me of Jefferson. His ability to see where institutions belong in government. But I can't think of anyone who counts votes so carefully planning steps far into the future.
McCain reminds me of Dole. The injured war veteran. McCain reminds me of Nixon. The rigid world view. McCain reminds me of Reagan. The dementia. McCain reminds of Bush. The smirk of knowing he has achieved a position he did not deserve.
Posted by: DrDan2000 | October 16, 2008 1:51 AM | Report abuse
Obama cool and calm? Ha! He reminds me of an older friend who would rant on and on bringing on more "facts" and "answers" until people shut up in belief. Later you found he was making everything up. But hey. He was just that kind of person. He HAD to be right. Good speakers are good liars and they hide it so well. Look at the numbers. Obama's tax cut plan calls for yet another 61 billion dollar deficit. Sure $1000 to a family sounds great. What's more money in the hole for the gov right?
Posted by: duda1 | October 16, 2008 1:50 AM | Report abuse
What a rally. The winner should be the one who are honest to himself, for everything that he has been promising all the way here. Senator McCain showed his confidence throughout rallies. But his way of finding the right issues to help his country through it toughest time since 1997 is quite amazing. Tax cut is very best recipe he offer. Especially after he explained how it will encourage his country to build back its economy. McCain"the brain"
Posted by: yesthenewno | October 16, 2008 1:49 AM | Report abuse
As to the ACORN irregularities, it was ACORN itself who brought the irregularities to the authorities, to keep everything above board. ACORN fired the guilty employees. Have the Republicans forgotten how Kathryn Harris disenfranchised 20,000 voters (many of them were black) in Florida in 2000, by linking similarly named people to felons, thereby not allowing legitimate people to vote? An example would be Jim R. Jones could not vote if there was a felon named Jim W. Jones? Talk about stealing the election for their candidate? Where is the moral outrage?????
Posted by: trescharmante1952 | October 16, 2008 1:49 AM | Report abuse
I request every American to look at the fact, not the color of the skin. It is incredibly understandable that senator Obama is way wiser and smarter than McCain. I don't understand why some thoughtless people are anxious to acknowledge this reality. We all need a highly knowledgeable, smart, and intelligent person who can represent every American, and senator Obama is the ONE. Senator Obama understands how to speak formally as a President; he knows what he is going to do in the office of presidency; he attempts for the success of all Americans. Please don't ever fool yourself by voting for someone who does not even know how to converse in the form a president, just because you are racist!
Obama is the dream president of the U.S and ONLY he can accomplish goals of all Americans.
God bless Obama!
Posted by: princess_19986 | October 16, 2008 1:48 AM | Report abuse
Go look at the Transcript of tonight's debate. When asked about Palin being ready to be president McCain actually managed to avoid directly answering the question.
Posted by: cbeck1 | October 16, 2008 1:47 AM | Report abuse
It would have helped McCain a little if he had forgotten about using ACORN for a coment. Check out this link. http://crooksandliars.com/silentpatriot/mccain-attended-acorn-rally
Posted by: owaggoner | October 16, 2008 1:46 AM | Report abuse
Watching the debate was scary, for the American People that is. Reading some of the posts here is even scarier. I don't know how ANY of you could be so gung-ho for EITHER candidate.
I have always voted Democrat in elections past and consider myself a MODERATE Democrat. However, in this election, I am what they call an undecided voter. Here are some of the reasons after tonights debate:
Obama- Seems to slip in the race card ever so carefully whenever he can. The talk about the McCain supporters at Palin's rally saying "kill him" and "terrorist" was code for McCain supporters are racist. Somehow Gov. Palin was suppossed to hear those remarks over her own voice and 20k people and tell them to stop? Silly at best. Fringe people exist in both parties.
McCain- Ran Joe The Plumber into the ground. Although he said Sen. Obama should have run against Pres. Bush and that he was not Bush, he did nothing to distinguish or distance himself from Pres. Bush.
Obama- I have a feeling he is for HUGE government. Every point he brought up involved spending more money and government oversight. We all know how efficient the government is. Seemed to want to throw tax dollars at every interest (schools, healthcare) and special interest (autistic children, etc)
McCain- Healthcare plan left me confused, couldn't tell if he is for or against govt. being involved. The call for taking an axe to budget and spending freeze is unrealistic. Things come up that need funded, we live in a dynamic country that needs a flexible and dynamic government.
Both were pandering to their base on the abortion issue.
I am still undecided, but can't see how people are so fanatical or ga-ga over either one of them (however Obama supporters seem to almost worship him, which is a turnoff as he is just a politician). I guess I have 20 more days to decide. Maybe I should do some research on Ralph Nader, probably couldn't hurt at this point as both of these guys are either corporate puppets or puppets to the extremes of their parties.
Posted by: djax12510 | October 16, 2008 1:46 AM | Report abuse
I liked Obama's talking about the issues and disliked McCain's not talking about them - just being his erratic self.
Posted by: greenacres2000 | October 16, 2008 1:46 AM | Report abuse
To Flotsam:
Again, so why bother voting, Flotsam, if you & your fellow liberals have already decided for us with your so-called "polls"? Tsk tsk...shame on you for trying to dishearten millions of unpolled Americans by implying that their votes won't count come election day because you and the "polls" say so. Again, we'll see come November 4th.
Posted by: eevie010166 | October 16, 2008 1:44 AM | Report abuse
bsimon1@12:50-In reference to speical needs children, Obama did mention that McCains approach to freeze spending is precisely why you should take a scaple to the budget rather than an ax - some programs are needed and some aren't.
Posted by: republicrat | October 16, 2008 1:44 AM | Report abuse
Posted by: tommyd60 | October 16, 2008 1:44 AM | Report abuse
Everyone should read the post by: jgarrisn | October 16, 2008 12:07 AM
J sums it up in a nutshell.
Character? Judgment?
How about adultery? Lies? Deceitfulness? Drug abuse? Authoritarianism? Get to know the real McPalin ticket!
Posted by: lucilleball_98 | October 16, 2008 1:44 AM | Report abuse
This sums up McCain. Right up there with spending 2 hour vetting his VP Candidate:
The Joe file
Two readers with access to the Ohio voter file say that Joe Wurzelbacher's influence on this cycle will be limited in one way: He doesn't appear to be registered to vote.
Posted by: cbeck1 | October 16, 2008 1:43 AM | Report abuse
To the SCHNEEMANS in COOPER CITY, FL: Yes, we get that you love McCain and hate Obama. You don't have to send in 50 submissions to go on and on about your candidate. Why don't you read the Rolling Stone article about McCain? Just keep in mind that Rolling Stone could not print the article that exposes the truth about McCain unless was true. They would be sued for libel if the facts were untrue. McCain is ten times worse that Bill Clinton. Clinton dallied with a White House intern, but stayed married to his wife. McCain openly cheated on his wife after she became disabled and dumped her for a younger, richer, prettier, healthier version. Where is your moral outrage over this basic indecency? Why do Republicans ignore McCain's and Palin's flaws? As to Wright and Ayers, guilt by association is an insipid attempt to pin anything on Obama, and the American people can see through McCain's pathetic attempts to discredit Obama.
Obama is going to win, JANE SCHNEEMAN in
COOPER CITY, FL. Deal with it!!
Posted by: trescharmante1952 | October 16, 2008 1:39 AM | Report abuse
Bob Schieffer won the debate
Posted by: YUTZ | October 16, 2008 1:39 AM | Report abuse
McCain's campaign was over the second he decided to select Palin as his running mate.
Would you call her for financial advise?
Can you picture her negotiating complex dealings with foreign countries?
I think NOT.
Posted by: fzelaya1 | October 16, 2008 1:37 AM | Report abuse
Obama - informed, intelligent, composed... presidential. Hands down, tonight's winner. The McCain attacks simply came across as acts of desperation and provided Obama with a meaningful opportunity to lay out the facts. And the long crocodile tears over John Lewis' remarks were just too much. You're a big boy, McCain. State your case and get over it. Comparing you to a hate-mongering segregationist is not quite what happened, but still uncool. Even less cool? Allowing hate-stirring rhetoric to pass by with a wink and a smile. Uncool, Palin.
Posted by: talray | October 16, 2008 1:37 AM | Report abuse
EdHarris noted to BJ "You could go to Canada. They just elected a Conservative and they don't have sheep." *LOL* - of course, BJ would be surprised to discover that "conservative" in Canada is more like a European conservative (which is probably somewhere slightly left of US democrats). What are our right wingers to do? ...get used to being viewed as ranting misanthropes, I guess. Or maybe they could open their minds a little and embrace change...
Posted by: Flotsam | October 16, 2008 1:32 AM | Report abuse
John "W" McCain's big line of the evening was, "If you wanted to run against President Bush, you should have run four years ago." For those of us who can still remember all the way back to 2004 we can recall McCain hugging Bush in a man-love embrace and stumping for his policies all over the country.
Except for very few instances tonight we heard only Obama's views on the issues that matter so much to our survival. First from Barack himself, carefully explaining his stance on the rescuing of our country and then we heard McCain negatively twisting Obama's plans. I'd sure like to know where McCain stands, but he'd rather sling mud than offer any real hope for our future. Obviously those are the political lessons he's learned from his party's heroes, Bush, Cheney and Rove.
Rick from Colorado
Posted by: rickstahl | October 16, 2008 1:30 AM | Report abuse
My favorite pundit comment of the night came from David Brooks on the NewsHour follow-up. He noted that Americans may have a hard time watching McCain on TV every day for the next four years. Obama -- not so much. Who wants to live with the combination of McCain's jittery nerves and maniacal smile combined with his nitwit running mate's winking?
Posted by: lisamz725 | October 16, 2008 1:29 AM | Report abuse
Wake up people!! Obama is a wolf in sheeps clothing!!The reason the rest of the world wants him in office is so they can come in and blow us up!!and for his words sharing the wealth I am a small business owner and
I work hard every day and night and I dont want to help support somebody that wont get off the couch and earn his own!! not to speak of the taxes,If he is elected we might as well be prepared to become a Socialist country, The beginning of the end, My Middle finger is up to you Obama I salute you!!! My vote is for Mcain!!!
Posted by: sc_dee_33_1966 | October 16, 2008 1:29 AM | Report abuse
At the end of the debate, I first thought it was a draw.
Both came out primed to respond to each other.
I couldn't find a clear reference where either put a glove on the other.
After thinking about it, I decided that actually, since it was a basic draw, Obama won because McCain didn't advance the debate.
Also, McCain's reactive breathing (just like Al Gore's sighing) didn't jolt Obama's delivery, but reflected McCain as fussing.
McCain drew out all his old talking points you see on the stump.
Obama actually had an enlightening conversation.
For that reason, I believe Obama did win the debate and will win the election.
This country is in deep economic trouble; we need intelligent, reasonable leadership.
McCain didn't mention where he'd cut spending:
Will he cut out the no-bid contracts?
Will he tax corporations that moved off-shore to avoid taxes?
Will he reconsider giving the most profitable corporations tax cuts, while leaving out the ordinary citizens?
(No answer.)
Our national debt, according to David Walker, former Comptroller of the U.S., stands right now at an actual $56-trillion, which devolves into $480,000.00 per household in this country, households that average gross income at less than $50,000.00 per year.
This economic crisis is ripping our country apart financially.
My vote is going to the man I think will attack that problem head-on and give it all of his attention and care.
Posted by: Judy-in-TX | October 16, 2008 1:28 AM | Report abuse
eevie010166 - the lack of mathematical prowess you exhibit in your silly notion that polls aren't indicative of actual trends is a symptom of the anti-intellectualism and under-education found in way too many Americans. We better bone up on math and science or we're going to lose our competitive edge. It's time for some respect for science in the white house again. Here's to an Obama/Biden win!
Posted by: Flotsam | October 16, 2008 1:27 AM | Report abuse
It was not a rehearsed talking points for Mr. Obama-- it was consistently reiterating what he stands for and what he plans to do. These are things we all need to know and we need to understand. Mr Obama is refocusing the campaign back to the focal points of what need to be addressed that greatly impacts the people. Mr. Mc Cain may have landed a few jabs by throwing a punch line or two-- but it doesn't change the fact that there are problems to be solved. Don't focus on who is the victor or villain of these debates, campaigns, etc... -- focus on who are the victims of failed policies that is costing us our jobs, retirement funds, our savings, our homes.
Posted by: truthandchange | October 16, 2008 1:27 AM | Report abuse
Posted by: mccaincansavesus | October 16, 2008 12:48 AM | Report abuse
What, did you go poll terrorists?
Posted by: monrowe | October 16, 2008 1:26 AM | Report abuse
It's stomach turning! Then, I hear them bleating: "Oh-bah-mah! Oh-bah-ma!". It's stomach turning!
Posted by: bgjones
Dear BJ,
You could go to Canada. They just elected a Conservative and they don't have sheep.
Posted by: edlharris | October 16, 2008 1:23 AM | Report abuse
I really wanted to believe in Senator McCain. I am a Republican but my gosh, this man causes me fear. Who the heck is this guy? I was undecided until tonight. McCain is GEORGE BUSH! That scares the heck out of me. He says he is not but he hugs him, kisses him, votes with him. From where I come from, if it walks like a duck...McCain is a Keating Five member, he met with oil company execs one day, received $3 million from them, then he is for off shore drilling, Sara Palin is found guilty of abusing her powers as a governor. My God, can the man even vette a vice-presidential candidate. Her daughter is an un-wed teenager and we must teach abstenance? I am not getting all this. McCain was over 60 when he was an active member of the Keating Five, Obama was 6 when Ayers was active! Who should have had the better judgement? As much as I hate to say this, McCain/Palin are doing a great harm to America by trying to spread hate and evil. My eyes were open tonight for the first time. Not correcting supporters when they say "kill him" or "give us his head". I am very sad to say this new evil is not something I ever want to be a part of. I have a strong christian upbringing and no where in that upbringing does it ever condones those types of statements. McCain appears to have become very desparate and angry. He is pretty much out of control. I am very sorry but John McCain, YOU HAVE BECOME GEORGE BUSH! I am no longer undecided, I msut now vote for OBAMA. John, you really need a reality check. This is the 21st century right now! We cannot get ready for it because it is already here! SORRY.
Posted by: rpw_educ8er | October 16, 2008 1:23 AM | Report abuse
McNASTY LOSES SKIRMISH, BUT WAR ON THE COOL ONE SLOGS ON
Posted by: scrivener50 | October 16, 2008 1:22 AM | Report abuse
I agree with most of what you said - errr wrote. Over all rather dull, Schieffer was marvelous. "Times up."
--"do you not care if your leader lies about such important issues.
Posted by: utahwildflower250 | October 16, 2008 1:10 AM | Report abuse "--
I don't care. Ayers? ACORN? Sh*t we're going to drop 250 billion on banks that can't manage money. 250 BILLION. ACRON is Ch*ck*n Sh*t.
Posted by: DonJasper | October 16, 2008 1:21 AM | Report abuse
Go to bed. Your brain is confused.
Dream about John and Sarah.
Posted by: tommyd60 | October 16, 2008 1:20 AM | Report abuse
utahwildflower250 @ 1:10 AM - the Ayers and ACORN issues have been researched plenty and they have *no* substance. None. Why do you think the respected media outlets aren't giving these "issues" the time of day? The ACORN stuff is just absurd anyway: no extra votes will occur from that foolishness. On the other hand, the voter roll scrubbing that's been going on is very alarming - and republicans have long backed as many ways of keeping *real* voters from the polls. Now that's something to write about ...and, btw ... the respected media outlets ARE paying attention to this issue. So - who you gonna believe? Conspiracy nuts or journalists with excellent reputations?
Posted by: Flotsam | October 16, 2008 1:19 AM | Report abuse
With your logic, let's just not show up at the polls and give up our precious vote. Before either one of us gets too cocky, how 'bout we just wait for those millions of unpolled Americans to vote on November 4th?
Posted by: eevie010166 | October 16, 2008 1:19 AM | Report abuse
What does Mccain keep scribbling on his pad? My 9 year old is scared of Mccain. "Daddy, why is that man so mean."
Posted by: qneee
He's scribbling "All work and no play makes John a dull boy! All work and no play makes John a dull boy! All work and no play makes John a dull boy! All work and no play makes John a dull boy! All work and no play makes John a dull boy! All work and no play makes John a dull boy! All work and no play makes John a dull boy!"
Reminds me of Jack Nicholson on "The Shining".
Posted by: camera_eye_11 | October 16, 2008 1:18 AM | Report abuse
SHEEP BLEATING (Can you hear them, too?):
If only Obama supporters would take a hard look at the walk that man walks, rather than the talk he talks (and the smirks he smirks).
I encourage everyone to fact find and you will see: Obama hasn't enough respect for the US to be true to any of us.
McCain shed his own blood for his country. He will work tirelessly to defend us and take us to higher ground. We need higher, safer ground now!
I keep scratching my head when I read posts of praise for Obama from all of "The Sheep" (who will try to take us ALL to slaughter with them on election day).
How can they praise a man with so few accomplishments of integrity and incredibly little love for us? Then, I hear them bleating: "Oh-bah-ma! OH-baaaaah-ma! OH-BAAAAAAH-MA!".
It's stomach turning! Then, I hear them bleating: "Oh-bah-mah! Oh-bah-ma!". It's stomach turning!
Posted by: bgjones | October 16, 2008 1:18 AM | Report abuse
America needs to wake up, open their eyes and do the real research behind all the stories instead of listening to the news, and believing everything that comes out of the television. It is time for America to stop being ignorant, stop feeling sorry for everybody, and find the real truth. Lets just say I wouldn't trust Sen. Obama to go to the freaking supermarket with me! Look stuff up yourselves people you will find the answers. Mccain all the way.
Besides Obama sounds way to much like Osama
Posted by: chadzka20 | October 16, 2008 1:17 AM | Report abuse
I think Senator Obama did really well he spoke like he knew what he was talking about and was actually talking about issues that concerns us Americans.... Unlike Mccain who kept trying to convince America Obama has something to do with terrorists thats such a low blow! Mccain didnt speak well in my opinion half of the time he was repeating himself stating the same anwsers over and over, and for God sakes kept talking about Joe the Plummer come on Mccain my son could have done a better job anwsering the questions correctly. Im all for Obama I think he stuck to his point and made it with all the issues (economic, healthcare, school, taxes ect.)
Posted by: Kristen18 | October 16, 2008 1:17 AM | Report abuse
Not to be totally petty, but why didn't someone put a better tie on John McCain and do a better makeup job as he looked old and acted like a grouchy old man.
I frequently travel internationally and everywhere I go, people talk about elections in the US. We used to be the country everyone wanted to emulate; but the last eight years have made us a laughing stock on the world stage. The Iraq war and eight years of an immoral administration has brought down our great nation. I am going with the rest of the world and voting for Obama. In the last election, I would have voted for McCain, but to me, he has totally lost his appeal. His choosing Sarah Palin as a running mate was the final straw. I may be a female, but I don't see how Mrs. Palin could possibly be ready to represent our country as VP or President. Scary thought. It seems it would be a great time for a third party to start up in our nation. I would vote for "NONE OF THE ABOVE" if it were on the ballot, but since I totally don't want to waste my vote, I'll go with Obama.
Posted by: BuggedLady | October 16, 2008 1:17 AM | Report abuse
Leila5689 4
>McCain can't talk without lying.
>McCain has slimy friends in high places.
>McCain offers nothing but disinformation.
>McCain lives in the past.
>McCain looked very uptight and angry.
>McCain patronizes and thinks we're dumb.
>McCain has no agenda other than the war.
>McCain "you can't spread the wealth"
>McCain will bring more war and debt.
>McCain will be riding off to senility 11/4
Posted by: tommyd60 | October 16, 2008 1:17 AM | Report abuse
About the abortion thing. I'm a woman and I'm not offended by McCain.
What offends me is that liberals feel that women are walking around needing abortions.
Bush has been in the white house for 8 years, and has not banned abortions.
What scares me is an unchecked government. With Pelosi in congress, Harry Reid in the senate, and Obama in the white house, the spending spree will rape us all.
Liberals will pressure Obama to spend, spend, spend.
That will really screw up our economy.
If we want jobs, we have to stop taxing companies at 35%, so they don't have to ship our jobs overseas.
I'm sure we can all agree on that.
Seriously, if you have a business and can pay way less taxes and make more money elsewhere, wouldn't you???
Why take from people who work to give to those who won't? It makes more sense to provide and create jobs. It's about the economy.
I'd rather have a job. If you don't have a job, how will you get a tax break on a non-existing paycheck?
Posted by: Leila5689 | October 16, 2008 1:15 AM | Report abuse
Does anyone notice a trend here? Like our republican candidate McCain, his supporters are making many comments that have no substance or explanations to back up their claims. Just evasive answers.
Let's face it. Both Obama and McCain have plans for our economic future, foreign and domestic. But only one had the courage to tell us it is going to have a significant cost. That was Obama. Maybe McCain assumes we already know what his plan will cost since we have already paid for it for the past 8 yrs. I say this because McCain has not presented us with any definite plan which doesn't already reflect the last 8 yrs in many ways. Reading some of these posts makes me wonder if anybody actually listened or only absorbed what they wanted to here.
If we take a look,we will see how our nation grew as whole and see that it was built on the backs of the average middle-class working American. There is only one who is willing to stand up for that foundation. Obama! He showed that tonight by openly telling the people where higher taxes will be placed and also where tax cuts will be given. His plan may not be perfect, but wake up people, there hasn't been a perfect political agenda for 232 yrs. It sure beats McCains.
We do need a change in Washington. Give this country what it needs. Obama 2008!!!
Posted by: brian_D_atw | October 16, 2008 1:14 AM | Report abuse
To coolkat08: Quit playing that tired old "racist" card. We're all on to it, so give it up already. Who the he** are YOU to call me or anyone else a racist. You don't know me or anyone else from Adam, so don't you dare judge. People don't support Obama's beliefs, so that makes them a racist? Oh, so now we MUST vote for YOUR candidate because he's of mixed race? In case you missed it, Einstein, this is America, people can vote for whomever the he** they feel would make the best President; the best Commander In Chief. Don't fricken play that retarded race card with the American people; it just serves to piss them off and does NOTHING for you or your candidate. How about if you don't vote for McCain, can we say that it's age discrimination because he's older? Or gender discrimination because McCain chose a WOMAN as his VP? GROW UP. If you, with YOUR racist comment, want to intimidate us into voting for a candidate we don't agree with & DICTATE who we vote for, you're in the WRONG COUNTRY - move to CUBA or China. I believe you will fit in just fine there.
Posted by: eevie010166 | October 16, 2008 1:14 AM | Report abuse
sparkstar04, under Clinton, we had a cash surplus and people had REAL jobs (not at Burger King). The country was profitable and the most respected in the world.
Bush turned this country into crap and McSame will flush it.
Obama 08!
Posted by: camera_eye_11 | October 16, 2008 1:14 AM | Report abuse
"The "Split Screen Smirk/Smile." Both Obama and McCain seemed to have decided that the best way to non-verbally dismiss their opponent's attacks was to smile. It didn't work for either candidate. McCain's facial expressions seemed contrived, Obama's vaguely arrogant. Just a steady look into the camera will do nicely. Did no one learn from Al Gore's debate sighs in 2000?"
Wow. This is just plain wrong. Not since the tongue bath Chris gave Drudge has he been to tin-eared (eyed?). McCain's smiling is creepy, Obama's is disarming. Look at the poll data Chris and you'll see. You can join the ranks of the CNN pundits who always talk about McCain's "good" performance until the polls come in. So disappointing...
Posted by: echh | October 16, 2008 1:13 AM | Report abuse
Being an articulate and eloquent speaker and handsome is not going to help our country with the problems we are having today, experience is what we need and what we have with John McCain and Sarah Palin. Research the Acorn and Ayers claims and you will find them to be true, or do you not care if your leader lies about such important issues.
Posted by: utahwildflower250 | October 16, 2008 1:10 AM | Report abuse
Hey eevie010166 @ 12:54 AM - sorry to disappoint you, but well conducted polls (though meaningless in other ways) have real statistical validity. Obama is cruising to a win and is supported by the majority of Americans now (who finally see the light). Given the republican thefts of the last two elections, however, we won't be taking this one for granted, and I expect the democrats will see a landslide win as Obama continues to fight for every vote and keeps people going to the polls. Not only will Obama be president, he's going to have an overwhelming mandate.
Posted by: Flotsam | October 16, 2008 1:08 AM | Report abuse
I feel sorry for John McCain because he knows the only way he could win this election is by selling his soul. Choosing Palin, making up with the extremists on the right (Falwell and Co.), befriending Bush and supporting government regulation. His entire campaign is based on principles he is strongly against. Not too mention negative campaigning, wether he admits it or not. The guy flip-flops more than John Kerry, yet the base still defends him. Oh the poor base (right) being so afraid to live their lives without God. They continue to struggle while failing to evolve. It's Sad! McCain 08
Posted by: wadersun | October 16, 2008 1:07 AM | Report abuse
What does Mccain keep scribbling on his pad? My 9 year old is scared of Mccain. "Daddy, why is that man so mean."
Posted by: qneee | October 16, 2008 1:07 AM | Report abuse
Notice the elegant ignoring of the dimwitted troll. Well done!
Posted by: jmeroAUS | October 16, 2008 1:06 AM | Report abuse
Joe the plumber. The thing is you get taxed on your profits. Everything else is basically a write off. I have plumber friends, and by the time they pay for equipment, gas, trucks, employees, insurance, rent, even the most successful ones aren't taking home $250K. S if McCain gets elected, good ol' Joe is going to have one more thing to worry about, getting his health insurance taxed, so he has even LESS money to take home.
Obama/Biden '08-12
Posted by: nachtusa | October 16, 2008 1:06 AM | Report abuse
Hey, 37th? That was the LAST DEBATE, dude. And your guy lost all of them. You now officially have about twenty more days to pretend that people give a $h1t about what you say... then it's back to changing bedpans at the home. Don't feel too bad, though... Ernie in 14B will still tell you stories about Joe McCarthy and the Reds while you're wiping his butt.
Posted by: bokonon13 | October 16, 2008 1:06 AM | Report abuse
"I am not President Bush - If you wanted to run against President Bush You Should Have Run 4 Years Ago"
I wish Obama would have! We would not be in this mess today. And thanks all you republicans for giving us George W. Republicans don't like intelligent, articulate leaders.
Posted by: RMB2 | October 16, 2008 1:06 AM | Report abuse
Middle class continues to struggle with increased fuel prices and costs due to devalued dollar because of a needless war, borrowing, excessive debt, and spending from 8 years of Republican majority. Our wages, jobs being lost, which expenses continue to increase. It's the middle class that feeds the economy and spending. Without money and jobs we're only going to be suffering more. McCain sounded old and more of the "same". Obama definitely embodied more change than more of the same 'ol rhetoric and direction of the last 8 years that has got us into the mess we're in now.
Obama did it!
Posted by: educdir | October 16, 2008 1:05 AM | Report abuse
A president should know how to pick a battle, not always choosing to fight. That is what a leader should be. It is not about being aggressive-- it's about being rational, intellectual, and practical on key issues. It is about understanding what the people they represent need. Misplaced aggressiveness can compromise the national interest and national security of this country.
Posted by: truthandchange | October 16, 2008 1:04 AM | Report abuse
Really Let's see what happened CLEARLY:
>Obama used recycled talking points.
>Obama still did not clear up his associations.
>Obama has really learned his lines, like memorizing a textbook.
>McCain has real life experience. He does not need to be overly prepped, and memorize rhetoric.
>Obama was smiling, smirking, and giggling, which is clear he was nervous, when being confronted.
>Obama will flip-flop whenever it is convenient for him, like campaing finance.
>Obama will have to break his promises, with the economy being so bad.
>95% of people getting tax cuts? really? 40% of people don't even pay taxes, he will give them free money.
>You don't know what you are getting with Obama, he changes all the time.
>With McCain regardless of what you say, you know what you are getting, you know his record, you know he will fight for what is right.
Posted by: Leila5689 | October 16, 2008 1:04 AM | Report abuse
thank you some one who understands.... Obama is going to r a p e the citizens of americas piggy banks because that 95% stuff is bull
Posted by: mccaincansavesus | October 16, 2008 1:02 AM | Report abuse
eevie010166 obviously does not understand anything about polls. You know subtle notions like sampling, the extent to which polls generalize to the population, etc. So fine, wait for the millions of "un-polled" to rise, what ever comforts you for the next three weeks, whatever delusions you foster not to face the obvious: McCain is done, over with, fin, kaput.
Posted by: ualec1 | October 16, 2008 1:01 AM | Report abuse
The lizard-tongue lip-licking snarkiness of McCain just enhances the overall unappealing nature of his campaign. I do believe he's an honorable man, as is Obama, but the whole campaign gestalt brings out the worst in both.
Still and all, my vote goes to Obama. Palin was McCain's fatal error.
Posted by: bleopard | October 16, 2008 1:01 AM | Report abuse
Keep dreamin. Come November 4th, your a** is out.
Posted by: tommyd60 | October 16, 2008 12:59 AM | Report abuse
Obama won it again. McCain was taking what Obama has been saying & twisting & putting it into his own words...NOT!!!
It's some really dumb people on here who are blind to the fact. Obama is talking REALITY while McCain is talking jibber jabber as he always has been hiding behind facts.
It's TIME 4 a change & Obama is the one to make that change whether people like it or not!! He speaks from REALITY which McCain has no insight of.
America is still so hung up on RACE & racist issues that is just STUPID!!
For a previous poster information....Rev. Wright brought up issues that "white america" is/was afraid to hear but oh well the cat is out the bag & he has been in it too long. If America is suppose to such a freaking melting pot then end the racial hatred that still exist today! KNOW THYSELF & others & then u will understand but so many people are sooo blind to the fact....
Posted by: obamadiva | October 16, 2008 12:58 AM | Report abuse
John McCain is a very angry man...end of discussion.
Posted by: MrSmith1 | October 16, 2008 12:57 AM | Report abuse
Anybody who thinks that woman's health is irrelevant, dismisses it parenthetically, and essentially mocks it does not deserve to be a dog catcher, never mind the president of the United States. McCain once again proved that he only matters to the idiots who attend his rallies.
Posted by: ualec1 | October 16, 2008 12:56 AM | Report abuse
Karl Rove sez vote McCain. His chubby legacy is looking like a pile of s h i t.
Posted by: DaveMiner | October 16, 2008 12:55 AM | Report abuse
Obama is consistent and focused in most of the issues. Our national crises need a pragmatist, not an idealogue, to get us out the mess of almost a decade.
Posted by: uvamd | October 16, 2008 12:55 AM | Report abuse
Hellloooo! Don't you liberals EVER quit? Get you heads out of your rectums - HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU HAVE TO BE TOLD THAT the majority of American people don't take the liberal media, nor the left-wingnuts associations seriously anymore; your OPINIONS mean NOTHING to us. Mainstream America is not full of IDIOTS, as much as you wish it were so. No matter what kind of PHONEY BALONEY you try to shove down our throats via the media, "online comments", etc., the majority of Americans KNOW that liberals have control of the mainstream media & the "polls"; and as such, know that the media represent a scandalously DISTORTED view of how Americans REALLY think & feel. Get a life. Newsflash!.... polls don't mean DIDDLY SQUAT, as only a VERY SMALL NUMBER of people out of the MILLIONS & MILLIONS of American citizens are polled ("cherry-picked, I'm sure). No one polled me, no one polled my friends, family members, co-workers, or acquaintances. The proof will be on ELECTION NIGHT when the millions of NON-POLLED voters will cast their ballots. We don't need the mainstream media & their liberal financiers to tell us who will be the next President of the United States. That is what November 4th is for, JACKASSES. - DON'T try to steal that away from the American people.
Posted by: eevie010166 | October 16, 2008 12:54 AM | Report abuse
McCain spent more time attacking Obama than he did answering the questions.
He reeks of self importance, patronized viewers consistently and gave more disinformation and half truths than any politician I've ever heard, Nixon included.
His anger and contempt are barely concealed. This guy is high strung.
We need McCain in office like we need a third world war.
Which is what we may get if he's elected.
Posted by: tommyd60 | October 16, 2008 12:54 AM | Report abuse
With his short fuse and blinking eyes, McCain comes across as dishonest and negative. He is really off on all points and cannot piece his thoughts coherently. This is a guy who will go to war at the least provocation (count the number of words on war and warfare in his vocabulary) and will do anything to win the Presidency, such as short-changing the American people.
In contrast, Obama comes across as a sincere and intelligent American who is willing to serve a trouble nation in a trouble time. Obama understands the man in the street, you and me.
I think Obama will win unless American voters prove to be racist.
If you are not racist and you want to save American, vote for Obama.
Posted by: coolkat08 | October 16, 2008 12:54 AM | Report abuse
On Veteran Health Care
May 2006: McCain voted against an amendment that would provide $20 million to the Department of Veterans Affairs for health care facilities.
April 2006: McCain was one of only 13 Senators to vote against $430,000,000 for the Department of Veteran Affairs for Medical Services for outpatient care and treatment for veterans.
March 2006: McCain voted against increasing Veterans medical services funding by $1.5 billion in 2007 to be paid for by closing corporate tax loopholes.
March 2004: McCain voted against creating a reserve fund to allow for an increase in Veterans' medical care by $1.8 billion by eliminating abusive corporate tax loopholes.
On Veteran Benefits
May 2008: McCain is currently opposed to the Post-9/11 Veterans Educational Assistance Act (S 22), proposed by Senators Jim Webb and Chuck Hagel, to raise GI benefits to a level similar to those received by WWII vets. The maximum benefit would cover tuition for veterans for up to 4 years at the in-state public
Posted by: ziadora | October 16, 2008 12:53 AM | Report abuse
kevinschmidt noticed! mccain was doing some fast and furious and freaky blinking! my friend, who recently became interested in politics for the first time in her life, said it was creeping her out. maybe the conservative base understands the funky blink code...
Posted by: conioplik | October 16, 2008 12:53 AM | Report abuse
Who won Senator Obama
Why did he win.
1. Senator Obama was calm cool collected, Senator McCain while attacking seemed angry and dismissive at times.
2. Senator McCain seemed focused on issues that are most people just arent interested in (Ayers, ACORN etc) and Senator Obama said we need to focus on the issues that matter to people like the economy. In addition he managed to say exactly who his advisors are including Warren Buffet, Paul Volcker, Senator Luger and General Jim Jones.
3. Senator McCain found issues with Senator Biden and Senator Obama said it is up to the American people to decide if they are appropriate to be the President.
4. Senator McCain kept saying he will raise your taxes and Senator Obama clearly pointed out again and again that he will lower taxes for 95% of working people.
5. Senator Obama showed he is a leader, there was no reason to suggest that he is risky. He appealed to not only Democrats but to those who are independents.
This was no contest. On the one point that Senator McCain scored was saying I am not President Bush. However Senator Obama said immediately that it is hard to tell because your economic policies are identical.
Senator Obama is now 3 for 3.
Posted by: jrsornts | October 16, 2008 12:51 AM | Report abuse
John McCain confused me on the education issue. I'm not 100% sure of this, but it sounded like he said veterans should be able to teach without certification. Now, I'm all for supporting vets (GI bill, healthcare), but that is just the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Do they get to be lawyers without passing the bar too? I mean, why do we want more people without qualifications in the teaching profession? Maybe he was talking about teachers who went to war and came back and missed a certification or something - because otherwise it's just plain loony.
Posted by: jak2 | October 16, 2008 12:51 AM | Report abuse
Posted by: mccaincansavesus | October 16, 2008 12:48 AM | Report abuse
hey - don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya ! you betcha !
Posted by: ripley8 | October 16, 2008 12:51 AM | Report abuse
"Am I the only one that heard McCain say that Palin's baby was autistic? I thought he had Downs Syndrome."
It wasn't clear to me if he was saying Palin has a kid with autism, or if he was saying Palin has expertise with special needs kids, like kids with autism. Either way it came across as pandering for votes based on the Gov's status as parent of a special needs kid.
I thought Obama missed another opportunity to point out that a spending freeze wouldn't leave much for helping special needs kids.
Posted by: bsimon1 | October 16, 2008 12:50 AM | Report abuse
If a slight increase in taxes -- Joe the Plumber's business supposedly would be right at the margin of Obama's tax increase level-- would make the business unprofitable, maybe Joe should think twice about whether it's really a great business investment.
(I wish that my plumber only made a quarter million a year. . .sigh. . .)
Posted by: jmls1 | October 16, 2008 12:50 AM | Report abuse
Mccain "not Pres Bush"? Could have fooled me. Also, Bush Is a world terrorist, doing more to give terrorism a strong platform to stand on than fighting them. McCain was "huggy" close to Bush till McCain decided winning the Presidency was more important than friendship. Palin, needed Repub help to win as gov of Alaska, then mistook those who supported her for moose and shot them down. Nice couple McPalin....Don't turn you back on them, you the public don't count much. They'll use you then lose you!
Posted by: leah1946 | October 16, 2008 12:49 AM | Report abuse
Senator McCain seemed petty. The markets took another dive today, consumer spending is plummeting, job worries are troubling many families and all poor John could talk about is the Ayers connection!
Joe Public has made up its mind, Joe the Plumber notwithstanding.
Posted by: OscarMayer2 | October 16, 2008 12:49 AM | Report abuse
For those of you who don't understand how Bill Ayers, Reverend Wright, and Acorn fit into all of this, here are my thoughts. Number one, I would never be caught dead in the same room as a terrorist, let alone in his living room talking about political agendas. Number two, I would never sit in a church for 20 years listening to a hate-filled Reverend who is obviously bitter about our great nation. And number three, I wouldn't give one cent to an organization that has for the past 3 elections, been fraudulently registering voters, let alone over 800,000 dollars of my campaign. This speaks volumes of the judgement and the character of Obama. In fact, with these associations, one couldn't even get a job as a Secret Service Agent, let alone be our President. Let me know how you feel about this.
McCain and Palin are actually terrorists. When you incite people to the point they are yelling 'kill him . ect.....' that makes you a terrorist like bin Laden. he only takes it a step further , but there is no difference.
Let's not forget voter fraud ala republican. not just in 04 , 06 but now in 08 as well where democrat registrations have been torn up. It's just not getting the same news.
which is worse - tearing up registrations ? or putting names like Mickey Mouse on registrations. Mickey mouse isn't going to go vote , but that democrat that registered will find on voting day their name isn't there.
PS - ACORN registers all voters , not just Dems. they flagged files that went ignored . Hence they did their job.
also in 06 ? McCain went to a rally for ACORN congratulated them for the work they did.
As for Ayers ? what McCain has been dishing is BS. Even the republicans who also deal with Ayers know this.... yes you forgot that part huh ? plenty of republicans deal with Ayers every day. work with him. Visit with him.
now you keep swallowing that con crap ok ? because only the ignorant believe it.
Posted by: ripley8 | October 16, 2008 12:48 AM | Report abuse
Posted by: mccaincansavesus | October 16, 2008 12:48 AM | Report abuse
Game, set, match.
Posted by: djah | October 16, 2008 12:48 AM | Report abuse
McCain was on tonight...on red bull I think. Obama was cool, calm and collected...another vallium, I mean valliant victory. This will be a tight race in the end. Whoever does win the election, we all need to accept and support the poor smuck.
And that goes for Gidget and Frankenstein too.
Posted by: leaner | October 16, 2008 12:46 AM | Report abuse
McCain looked a little tired. Bushed really.
Posted by: DaveMiner | October 16, 2008 12:45 AM | Report abuse
Republicans lost it at the selection of Palin. Simple as that. Jane Winebox is a joke.
Posted by: goddess41 | October 16, 2008 12:45 AM | Report abuse
0bama is OK with killing innocent children to the turn of 3000+ per day while saving the lives of 1000 convicted criminals over 3 decades.
We need him like the Soviet Union needed Joe Stalin...NOT!
Posted by: NeverLeft | October 16, 2008 12:44 AM | Report abuse
Bottom line. If you're poor, making less than 250 thousand a year.(poor?) Then you will do better with Obama. If you are rich,
you will do better with McCain.
If you are poor and for McCain? Well, a drunk can sober up but God help a fool.
Posted by: seemstome | October 16, 2008 12:42 AM | Report abuse
I like John McCain because he reminds me of my Grandfather, always telling srories about things that happened before I was born. Which was 1983. I think I will make a responsible decision and vote for the candidate who is in touch with the issues of today, not yesterday.
Posted by: wadersun | October 16, 2008 12:42 AM | Report abuse
I'm not sure I saw a debate tonight. Seemed more like Attack Ad Live (a la SNL). I like a little humor, so to inject some fun into this race, maybe Bush should steal a card from Bloomberg and push for a change in term limits. That way Obama could run against and beat Bush and McCain in THIS election. Paris Hilton is looking more and more like a great write-in!
Posted by: ny10023 | October 16, 2008 12:41 AM | Report abuse
Joe the Plumber...Joe Sixpack??? Give me a Break....
Mccain was a vigorous supporter of Bush throughout
the Bush administration....and Mccain attended acorn events and saluted their efforts...Barack was gracious enough not to mention that ......Obama has Class....Mccain has none....
Read the 10/16 Rolling Stone article on Mccain to see who he really
is...No Contest ....
If you're going to play the Race Card against Barack you'll need better thatn Moe Howard from the three stooges....which is the
angry little Penguin that Mccain is
Posted by: crimeyrivers | October 16, 2008 12:41 AM | Report abuse
For those of you who don't understand how Bill Ayers, Reverend Wright, and Acorn fit into all of this, here are my thoughts. Number one, I would never be caught dead in the same room as a terrorist, let alone in his living room talking about political agendas. Number two, I would never sit in a church for 20 years listening to a hate-filled Reverend who is obviously bitter about our great nation. And number three, I wouldn't give one cent to an organization that has for the past 3 elections, been fraudulently registering voters, let alone over 800,000 dollars of my campaign. This speaks volumes of the judgement and the character of Obama. In fact, with these associations, one couldn't even get a job as a Secret Service Agent, let alone be our President. Let me know how you feel about this.
Posted by: johnferguson1 | October 16, 2008 12:35 AM | Report abuse
I guess we should not talk about all the Communists who Mccain keeps in touch with. The ones who tortured and killed POW's he now counts among his friends. I guess Mccain felt the need to do this to get rid of his own demons who knows. He has traveled to viet nam many times and even had them as his guests here in the US.
Posted by: popasmoke | October 16, 2008 12:41 AM | Report abuse
I am old enough to remember when Phil Graham held up his Hispanic employee as "everyman" so he could stay in touch with what the common people were doing. I believe that "Joe the Plumber" is a similar ploy by McCain which I find condescending and downright fake. He and Phil Graham have been best of buddies for years so I see his fine hand in this political move. McCain used "My friends" less which helped him in the first part of the debate. I am sick of muck raking so the Acorn and Ayers is a real turn off. MacCain has no excuse for selecting Palin as a running mate. Anyway, it's all over but the voting. Obama may not make a spectular president anymore than he was a debate star, but I believe he will have a cool steady hand and surround himself with good people. And I can live with that.
Posted by: txajohnson | October 16, 2008 12:40 AM | Report abuse
Be real ok middle class obama voters think are you using your brain ? How many of you shop at walmart and grocery stores ? THINK THINK. THE PRICES WILL RISE WILL GO UP HIS TAX CUT WILL NOT HELP YOU AT ALL. He wants you to belive it. BILL CLINTON did the same things. IF you want higher prices on your goods at stores vote obama. IT wont help middle class at all. ITs hard enough for us to save
Posted by: sparkstar04 | October 16, 2008 12:39 AM | Report abuse
Senator Obama, I am not president Bush. If you wanted to run against President Bush, you shoulda run four years ago." That's an effective line from McCain, because he's right that he's not Bush and it reminds people that four years ago Obama was just a Senate candidate.
Posted by: schneemans | October 16, 2008 12:39 AM | Report abuse
First Debate:
Obama: distinguished, polite, informative.
McCain: makes no eye contact.
Second Debate:
Obama: distinguished, polite, informative.
McCain: invades space.
Third Debate:
Obama: distinguished, polite, informative.
McCain: talks over.
Obama's win.
Posted by: ziadora | October 16, 2008 12:37 AM | Report abuse
Obama - thoughtful adult. McCain - snide teenager.
Time for grown-ups to run the country for a change.
Posted by: lcsyzygy | October 16, 2008 12:36 AM | Report abuse
McCain has got nothin! Nada! Zilch! Zero!. Empty as a bucket of nothing.
Posted by: jcorral1 | October 16, 2008 12:36 AM | Report abuse
For those of you who don't understand how Bill Ayers, Reverend Wright, and Acorn fit into all of this, here are my thoughts. Number one, I would never be caught dead in the same room as a terrorist, let alone in his living room talking about political agendas. Number two, I would never sit in a church for 20 years listening to a hate-filled Reverend who is obviously bitter about our great nation. And number three, I wouldn't give one cent to an organization that has for the past 3 elections, been fraudulently registering voters, let alone over 800,000 dollars of my campaign. This speaks volumes of the judgement and the character of Obama. In fact, with these associations, one couldn't even get a job as a Secret Service Agent, let alone be our President. Let me know how you feel about this.
Posted by: johnferguson1 | October 16, 2008 12:35 AM | Report abuse
Mccain falls to 16 on intrade and falling. Obama is now at 84 and rising
Posted by: popasmoke | October 16, 2008 12:35 AM | Report abuse
Republican here. Voting for Obama. The choice was obvious.
Oh and an earlier comment by kevinschmidt had me really laughing!!!
He said, "I want to thank John McCain for volunteering to provide the hearing impaired viewers with a translation of the debate via his unique morse code eye blinking technique."
HA HA HA That was really funny!
Posted by: dave40 | October 16, 2008 12:35 AM | Report abuse
Mr Obama sounded a bit like a candidate running for high-school president in his closing statement.
Posted by: schneemans | October 16, 2008 12:35 AM | Report abuse
The only thing more repulsive than watching an old man, whose time has come and gone,(Mr. McCain) is the pure pain of having to be subjected to the endless reposting of the same lame brain, mentally-dead, rantings of the poster 37thandOStreet. Like McCain this individual is void of any creative though. Like McCain his message is one of hate. Like McCain, he is an idiot.
Posted by: xona_anox | October 16, 2008 12:34 AM | Report abuse
Independents are almost the stupidest people in the world; there stupidty is only eclipsed by anyone over 40. Reagon?? -- give me a break. I can't wait till all you old people die so we can finally do something legitimate in the government of this country. Thanks a lot for the excessive increase in CO2 in our atmosphere -- when you die off, dont expect greatest generation status from us.
Posted by: whack8888 | October 16, 2008 12:33 AM | Report abuse
The Hate Talk Express: Keeps On Rollin'!
McCain is very proud of his Hate Talk Express. You know, the one that doesn't say a word about their supporters shouting "kill him" when they hear Barack Obama's name.
In tonight's debate, McCain said:
"Let me just say, categorically, I'm proud of the people that come to our rallies."
Did you catch that? He's proud of people who threaten the life of his opponent, who shout "off with his head" and "Obama bin Laden".
Here's the clip from the debate:
Thanks, Johnny McNasty, for showing your true colors. Now there's no doubt that your values are in the sewer.
Posted by: DrainYou | October 16, 2008 12:33 AM | Report abuse
John McCain's best comment on this election was: " I am not President Bush - If you wanted to run against President Bush You Should Have Run 4 Years Ago"
Far from it, John McCain was not the first choice of the GOP establishment because of his failure to bow down to the GOP party line. While GOP party bosses could not keep him from winning the nomination they did prevent him from choosing Joe Liberman as his VP candidate. With Sara Palin he will still have the strong hand to help him produce some real reforms in the way Washington does business.
On the other hand Obama is the darling of the liberal lefties and the media. It is no wonder he is their darling – Like Clinton his is a slick tongued politician, Like Clinton he would, even with a democratic senate and house, be unable to follow through on his promises EXCEPT for raising taxes. Obamas pick for VP was chosen much like JFK's pick of (LBJ) to be an established party leader who can help him whip his DEMs into line. Unlike LBJ, Biden is not likely to be able to pull rabbits out of hats for Obama and, if elected Obama's presidency will result in a myriad of failed efforts to reform our Federal Government.
Chose wisely folks – Obama is a dreamer with no track record of actual leadership or bi-partisan actions. Voting "present" on controversial issues is not an option for the President of this country.
McCain is a proven entity who has successfully fought his own party leaders on key issues, and has a track record of bi-partisan actions.
Posted by: AmzgGrce | October 16, 2008 12:33 AM | Report abuse
CNN, CBS, NY TIMES polls...pure manipulation...
Here is the situation...
How much money they will make if McCain wins?
Not much! Just another old president…
But...if Obama wins!!! Books, videos, movies, etc...Only God knows the amount of money the people in the media industry and Hollywood are gone make with the history!
The first black president in the history of this country!!!
The headlines sounds nice, the problem is that Mr. Obama's political career is full of scandals, corruption, and in the reality we do not really know him very well…
We are just desperate people here looking for a boat of salvation from the storm in which our country is going thru now…pay attention people…be aware…You are all being manipulated by these guys playing God! Power…That is all what matter to then… And the Nation and its people…who cares? God will provide right?
Posted by: schneemans | October 16, 2008 12:32 AM | Report abuse
Posted by: schneemans | October 16, 2008 12:30 AM | Report abuse
McCain came across as a sometimes stumbling over his words, prickly and peevish. Obama, what a cool, calm, unflappable mofo.
Posted by: tydicea | October 16, 2008 12:30 AM | Report abuse
""I'm sick of you and the racist white MSM calling Obama arrogant! He's NOT arrogant! He was being polite!""
Are you kidding??? You didn't not see that ARROGANCE? I am an Independent white and really tired of people like you calling us racist just because we DO NOT LIKE OBAMA.
Don't you feel it is racist to vote for him JUST BECAUSE HE IS BLACK.....OH,AND POLITE , OF COURSE. Like you apparently are??
How hypocritical of you.
Posted by: maria_t | October 16, 2008 12:29 AM | Report abuse
CBS poll: Obama 53-22
CNN: Obama 58-31
I thought the abortion section was a telling one, with McCain throwing air quotes around the issue of a woman's health.
Apparently he learned nothing from the drubbing he received from Obama in the first two debates -- his aggressive, angry, negative tone does not resonate with anyone beyond the radical right wing base.
The "Joe the plumber" nonsense was just silly.
The best thing I can say for McCain is he cut back on his "my friends" (though not on his creepy smile), which was actually a net minus for those playing the "my friends" drinking game.
Obama and Biden sweep the debates.
Posted by: monk4hall | October 16, 2008 12:29 AM | Report abuse
The whole world (except Georgia and Exiled Cuba)is voting Mr OBAMA as you can see on www.economist.com...Thousands of million people cannot be mistaken!!!
Posted by: monicabergen | October 16, 2008 12:28 AM | Report abuse
Fox, CBS, CNN, MSNBC all have Obama taking the Debate.
Obama has a plan, McCain has nothing, Obama was cool, calm, and collected, McCain was heated, agitated, disjointed.
Obama/Biden '08
Posted by: seakayaker | October 16, 2008 12:27 AM | Report abuse
Can someone check Chancellor Rhee's voter registration. She obviously gave John McCain a strong sense of his correctness.
Posted by: 411Tibby | October 16, 2008 12:27 AM | Report abuse
Im from Ohio, where Joe the Wealthy Plumber lives, and I couldn't give a rat's patoot who he votes for. Frankly, I also don't think Bush and the GOP had any business making the rest of us all borrow a trillion dollars so that Joe the Wealthy Plumber could get four tax cuts. At one time, John McCain didnt think so either -- he opposed the Bush tax cuts for the rich that Obama would now scale back.
Posted by: davidscott1 | October 16, 2008 12:27 AM | Report abuse
First let me apologize for any grammatical errors.
I am recently became an American Citizen and I am still learning the English language.
My mother use to say:
"The worse blind is the one which does not want to see".
The sad thing about all this situation (Presidential Elections 2008) is that…after all is done… (Obama wins)…people are gone say: What happened? I was so sure!
He sounded so good!
To good to be true!
This is what I have to say...To much talk...Who is him? Do you really know Obama? Two years in the Senate…campaigning…that's all!
Promises…He says what people want to hear!
We all gone pay a very high price for this big mistake we (you) are getting yourselves in…
Open your eyes people!
Study the situations…get informed…Don't believe in promises!
Look at the person! Their precedent…
Don't you know that "were there's smoke there's fire?"
We should be more prudent with our choices…
We leave in a very dangerous world…very dangerous…
Look at the history of this world!
We are all living in a "lalala" world, not taking in consideration that bad people are out there, and they are planning right now, as we speak, to kill us!
Even if it takes 100 years…They will succeed!
And do you want to know why!
God bless you all!
Posted by: schneemans | October 16, 2008 12:26 AM | Report abuse
Barack Obama is now the President of the United States in waiting. In 2000 a McCain/Gore contest would of been very interesting and if he would of won, would of certainly been a better President than George Bush. (Who wouldn't?)
However, in 2008 it is clear to me that Barack Obama is better suited and better equipped to guide this country in a time of great crisis. Yes, he hasn't been on the national stage as long but I trust in his intelligence and his dedication to improving the lives of average Americans, all Americans just not democrats.
We are living in a great time.
Posted by: cfeher | October 16, 2008 12:26 AM | Report abuse
Hear that sound... its the sucking sound of our tax dollars going down the tubes....more money to nationalize the banks... we already have welfare, medicaid, high taxes and a congress that has distrust of us. So who do we vote for an old US Senator or an inexperienced US senator....
close the door if you are the last one out of here...
Posted by: robinhood2 | October 16, 2008 12:25 AM | Report abuse
John McCain had one strategy tonight: to keep 46% of America in his corner. He knows he's lost the race. He just doesn't want to lose by 10 points. That's why he played to the base. Keep his margin at 46%.
Of course, Mike Dukakis got 46% too.
Posted by: ElrodinTennessee | October 16, 2008 12:23 AM | Report abuse
To: nyrunner101
You know, you are extremely rude. I am appalled to hear a so called AMerican say he wants some of someone else's hard earned money. I am in Real Estate and as we all know, I am probably not making much money now. But, I do not want anyone else's hard earned money.
Why don't you go out and better yourself??? Why should someone else pay for either your failure, laziness or just because you didn't make out as well as someone else???
No, I am not a Republican, I am an Independent. And, I agree with Joe, that if HE made the money, then HE should choose who to give it to, not for Obama Maniac to choose.
You are dispicable.
Posted by: maria_t | October 16, 2008 12:21 AM | Report abuse
Personally, I would have been happy if Obama fought back a little more. I thought McCain left some huge openings. But Obama's sense of political strategy is much better than my own. He's made the right decision at every turn. While I was mailing the campaign to convince them to fight back against McCain, he kept his cool.
McCain's biggest mistake this election was public financing. After the trouncing he's going to get, I suspect public financing will be done for.
I'm very excited to see our new president in the oval office.
Posted by: zosima | October 16, 2008 12:19 AM | Report abuse
McCAIN FOR PRESIDENT!
Posted by: schneemans | October 16, 2008 12:18 AM | Report abuse
my response is not really in response to the debate but to rickyrab's comment at 11:55pm. With all this talk of McCain being disrespectful during the debate, how dare you go an insult the Pope, of all people? Also, Joseph may be a popular name but at least it has powerful meaning. Remember who helped raise Jesus? Exactly. Next time you want to go verbally attack someone, try to make it in a tasteful manner.
Posted by: mealaa_119 | October 16, 2008 12:17 AM | Report abuse
Am I the only one that heard McCain say that Palin's baby was autistic? I thought he had Downs Syndrome. You think McCain would get this right- as Autisim and Downs Syndrome are about as different as the McCain and Obama-
Posted by: Prisoner1 | October 16, 2008 12:17 AM | Report abuse
If you have any doubts about who won this debate -- watch it again and watch McCain's body language. I've seen robots that look more honest and human than McCain ever could...
Posted by: saj_pratt | October 16, 2008 12:16 AM | Report abuse
I guess some of you were watching a completely different debate than I was.
FIrst of all, to the person who said the debate watchers on CNN said Obama won: CNN IS A TOTALLY LEFT WING CHANNEL!!! On Fox News, 87% SAID MCCAIN WON!!
So, the moral of this story is, don't listen to either one of these polls!
To the person with the 92 year old mother saying McCain shouldn't smurk.....Where was she when Obama was doing it??? DIdn't she catch that? Maybe she was up getting her snacks, I guess.
I saw some REAL people who were undecided and they came out of there almost as undecided as they came in. Which means, Obama DID NOT close the deal.
Some of the other channels, had undecideds saying 3 to 1 that they were voting for McCain. These are the numbers you should be listening to.
And, by the way, Joe the plumber, even though he wouldn't say who he was voting for, did say that he STILL thinks Obama will do him no good on taxes if he were to win. Gee, I wonder who he is voting for.
He didn't want to say, because he doesn't want to get called a Racist.
An independed for McCain/Palin
Posted by: maria_t | October 16, 2008 12:16 AM | Report abuse
Obama handles TV far far better than Mccain, who comes off as snarly or befuddled. And Obama won for a simple reason -- he didnt lose. 20 days may be left, but John McCains hourglass is running out.
Posted by: davidscott1 | October 16, 2008 12:15 AM | Report abuse
Four of Dubya's eight years in the WH were fraudulent and should've gone to Al Gore.
Posted by: rickyrab | October 16, 2008 12:15 AM | Report abuse
McCain is presidential while Obama smirks and comes off as arrogant.His policies are not good for America and he was not forthcoming tonight. McCain was the winner.
Posted by: airslie51 | October 16, 2008 12:14 AM | Report abuse
How do you spell DOOM with just three letters?
bwahahahahahah hahahahaha.
Posted by: Christian_in_NYC | October 16, 2008 12:14 AM | Report abuse
Holy jeez, Chris! You thought McCain succeeded with his line about him not being Bush? Obama won the exchange when he said his policies mirror W's. Did you think McCain scored when he defended people yelling incindiary things at his rallies?
Posted by: cao091402 | October 16, 2008 12:13 AM | Report abuse
If Mr. McCain gets as angry and tense debating Putin as he got debating Mr. Obama tonight, I'm afraid he'll give himself a stroke and we'll end up with President Palin. Mr. McCain needs to relax before he blows something more important than just his temper.
Posted by: rivermama | October 16, 2008 12:12 AM | Report abuse
George Bush stole the 2000 election!
Posted by: rickyrab | October 16, 2008 12:12 AM | Report abuse
This was McCain's best debate. Certainly better than any town hall. Obama stuck to the script. The same old message, help the middle class, create jobs, provide affordable health care.
McCain had the bold move of helping some plumber in Ohio become a millionaire so his wealth would then trickle down like rain on the rest of us. Good luck with that line John.
McCain also brought a picture of him and Bush hugging. "This is Bush and that's me" he said. "Senator Obama, I am not George Bush. If you wanted to run against him you are four years too late." Stifled applause followed this masterstroke by McCain.
Obama weakly protested that he meant Bush's policies but the damage was done.
McCain attacked Obama's voting against free trade with Columbia whose main export is cocaine and Columbians.
If Obama was against free trade then he was just another Hoover in McCain's eyes.
McCain's expressions were wildly expressive and entertaining. Overblown sarcastic smiles, hostile beady eyes glowering with puffed out jowls and flatulent grimaces all filled in and rounded out our image of McCain as a man and, God forbid, as president.
Posted by: seemstome | October 16, 2008 12:12 AM | Report abuse
On few other issues do Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain and Democratic candidate Sen. Barack Obama differ so sharply as on abortion.
McCain has a consistent record of voting to restrict abortion.
Obama supports abortion rights and is a co-sponsor of a Senate bill called the Freedom of Choice Act that would declare it a fundamental policy of the United States that a woman has a right to get an abortion.
If enacted, the bill would invalidate any federal or state law that interfered with a woman's right to get an abortion. It would, for instance, make void any state law requiring that parents of a daughter under age 18 be notified when she seeks an abortion.
The bill would give women the right to file civil suits against any person or government agency that sought to limit their ability to get an abortion.
Obama denounced the Supreme Court 2007 decision which upheld the ban on the procedure known as partial-birth abortion, in which a fetus is partially removed from the womb before the doctor ends its life.
He said "conservative Supreme Court justices will look for other opportunities to erode Roe v. Wade."
McCain praised the court's decision, calling the partial-birth procedure "one of the most odious aspects of abortion
Posted by: schneemans | October 16, 2008 12:09 AM | Report abuse
So, McCain and Palin want to talk about character issues, eh? Fine, we can play that game if you want. You betcha!!
Since Obama is actually running a campaign on the ISSUES, and because he's too classy to run smear a campaign, voters may not know about the gross character flaws on the McCain/Palin ticket. Allow me to enlighten everyone.
Let's start with the adulterous and unethical McCain family. John McCain cheated on his first wife, many times, after she became disfigured in an accident. McCain's current wife, the model/alcohol distribution empire heiress Cindy McCain, had no problem sleeping with a married man. In addition to being a home wrecker, Cindy McCain stole from her own charity to support her out of control drug addiction. John McCain's central role in the Keating 5 scandal directly contributed to a major financial crisis, costing tax payers over $120 billion. Today, the McCain campaign is surrounded by the same breed of political patrons and corrupt lobbyists.
Now for the Palin clan: Sarah Palin's family preaches the social practices of the religious far-right, yet this has resulted in an underage and unwed pregnant daughter. Mr. Palin boasts a DUI on his resume and was a long time member of the America hating secessionist Alaska Independent Party. Admitted marijuana smoker Sarah Palin clearly puts career ahead of family as she leaves behind her special needs baby and pregnant teen for the campaign trail. She brags about shooting and killing stray canines from planes. She pals around with an extremist who started a real witch hunt in Africa before coming to Alaska to serve as the Palin family preacher. While the race-baiting Sarah Palin was busy using hate speech against Obama to incite rage among the Republican base, a bipartisan committee was busy finding Palin GUILTY of ethics violations as governor of Alaska.
Perhaps worst of all, neither McCain nor Palin have the integrity, or at the very least, the common decency to control the lunatics in the crowd at their campaign events. When their supporters hear "Barack Obama" and respond with words like "kill him" and "off with his head," how do McCain and Palin respond? They say nothing!
Sorry, McCain/Palin, but you do not represent the American values we demand from our leaders. In addition to the issues of the economy, health care, foreign policy, and reform, it looks like you can't win the 'character' issue either.
Posted by: jgarrisn | October 16, 2008 12:07 AM | Report abuse
G.I. Joe
He's a Real American Hero!
Joe Biden!
Joe Six Pack!
Joe the Plumber!
Joe Ratzinger!
(oh wait, the last one is a German who happens to be running a church that a lot of folks like, and a lot of other folks seem skeptical of. Whatever.)
Posted by: rickyrab | October 16, 2008 12:07 AM | Report abuse
One more thing - yes McCain is not President Bush. What I would have liked to see was for John McCain to make this statement
I still would not vote for him but I would respect him more.
It is not enough to say that you aren't Bush. You have to also say that you aren't Bush because he was and is such a terrible president.
I would also have liked McCain to finish that statement with this one:
Posted by: nyrunner101 | October 16, 2008 12:06 AM | Report abuse
CNN, CBS, NY TIMES polls...pure manipulation...
Here is the situation...
How much money they will make if McCain wins?
Not much! Just another old president…
But...if Obama wins!!! Books, videos, movies, etc...Only God knows the amount of money the people in the media industry and Hollywood are gone make with the history!
The first black president in the history of this country!!!
The headlines sounds nice, the problem is that Mr. Obama's political career is full of scandals, corruption, and in the reality we do not really know him very well…
We are just desperate people here looking for a boat of salvation from the storm in which our country is going thru now…pay attention people…be aware…You are all being manipulated by these guys playing God! Power…That is all what matter to then… And the Nation and its people…who cares? God will provide right?
Posted by: schneemans | October 16, 2008 12:05 AM | Report abuse
Overall I thought Obama won because he got his points in clearly and concisely on health care, taxes, education, and job creation. His performance was steady -- he started strong, had a little lull in the mid-point with McCain -- and recovered his footing at the end for a strong finish. He stayed on message.
With McCain it was clear at the get go that his advisers had worked on projecting an up-beat, and amiable persona. Lots of smiles. About 20 minutes into it though the McCain version 2008 reared its head and he was condescending, shrill, and negative. I think he beat poor Joe the plumber to death -- it was an interesting debate tactic -- a way of personalizing the small business question -- but McCain was vague on the details. He never clearly explained how Obama would have a negative impact on Joe's business -- aside from a generalized claim that "he'll raise your taxes", and McCain failed to provide his own alternative.
The abortion discussion too likely killed McCain, because I think there's still a lingering impression that McCain is not entirely an orthodoxy Republican -- that even on an issue like abortion he parts from the party orthodoxy. What he describes as the "extreme pro-abortion" position though really struck me as an extreme characterization in itself. Most Americans are opposed to an outright ban -- even if they believe there should be restrictions on abortion. McCain gave the impression that abortion needed to be outlawed across the board.
McCain's position came off as hostile and extreme. Obama's position which seemed to hint at some restrictions in the 3rd trimester came off as more nuanced. Obama also acknowledged the sensitivities regarding the issue -- the fact that reasonable people disagree.
Short version: With Obama it was health care, job creation, and education -- with McCain it was just "Obama will raise your taxes". Obama made a positive case for his candidacy. McCain didn't. Obama seemed serious, but focused on better days. McCain seemed to wallow in despair and fear.
Posted by: JPRS | October 16, 2008 12:05 AM | Report abuse
Schieffer shines? Really?
Apparently you didn't notice that he gave McCain the last word on virtually every point. You do know that Schieffer's brother is a McCain supporter, don't you?
Posted by: thaimex | October 16, 2008 12:05 AM | Report abuse
Clearly, Obama won again and should have sewn-up the presidency. McCain may have been a little stronger tonight and, perhaps, helped himself with his base. Hopefully, now McCain will make salvaging his reputation his top priority and quit negative campaigning. Funny thing, that is also the only way that McCain can at all cut into Obama's lead. Do the right thing, Mac! (And insist Sara does, too.)
Posted by: Byron5 | October 16, 2008 12:05 AM | Report abuse
"I am not George Bush."--John McCain
"I am not a crook."--Richard Nixon
I KNEW it sounded familiar!
Posted by: thrh | October 16, 2008 12:05 AM | Report abuse
I want to thank John McCain for volunteering to provide the hearing impaired viewers with a translation of the debate via his unique morse code eye blinking technique.
Posted by: kevinschmidt | October 16, 2008 12:04 AM | Report abuse
After seeing some more opinions on the debate, I've realize that my judging the debate a "blowout" in my previous post was (unsurprisingly) a bit over enthusiastic.
I saw a blowout because both Obama and McCain were pandering towards their respective bases of which I'm a part. Smart move on their point as the debate was probably boring to everyone else so they might as well get out the vote. I'm a Obama fan and Obama hasn't been pandering to us too lately so when he started selling his hope oil it was music to my ears.
McCain pandered with his talk on abortion and his unsubstantiated claims that Obama will raise your taxes. Culture war like it's 2000 baby! If his rallies show anything it's that many americans respond to that kind of talk.
Obama pandered by reminding the base why they got so excited about him in the first place. His core supporters don't get excited over the traditional wedge issues. Obama got such love at first sight because he offered a politics of respect. He promised us substance and I for one go weak in the knees when I hear a three point policy on improving education.
My cavets being said, I'm still gonna call this a winner for Obama by a large proportion but a small margin. Both sides appeased their base so this debate won't produce many converts. But the McCain pander isn't going to win over any people who weren't on his side, people are a little tired of the Republican culture war and worried about the economy. The Obama message will have a bit more appeal among the moderates though not much, voters are pretty cynical these days. Seeing as Obama already had a big lead, the victory will be on too small a scale to notice. I might be wrong, people might be more receptive then I think. But my opinion now is that in a debate for the center, McCain was a no show, making this the blowout that history will never notice.
Posted by: theamazingjex | October 16, 2008 12:04 AM | Report abuse
It seemed as McCain was in a different world from Obama and Schieffer. Regardless of what Bob asked, McCain kept talking about the same trivial and pointless things. What was that bizarre obsession with "Joe the Plumber"? And he kept lobbing the same unsubstantiated claims at Obama, even seconds after Obama had cleared up the matter. John McCain seemed to be having a seperate debate with himself. Strange and creepy.
Posted by: jaynashvil | October 16, 2008 12:04 AM | Report abuse
I don't think anything McCain said helped him. "If you wanted to run against George Bush you should have run four years ago." is clever, but since most everyone's views of McCain are solidified, this doesn't recreate his image. That is McCain's problem now, he's presented himself, and it's too late to present someone else. Clever little gimmicks are of no use.
Obama was unflappable, solid, steady, and presidential.
Posted by: Cyclopsina | October 16, 2008 12:04 AM | Report abuse
Obama was focused on the issues that are important for America. He spoke clearly about how to solve specific problems. McCain was full of sound bites but no substance. I am an independent who made his mind tonight. Obama won, he has my vote.
Posted by: ivancal | October 16, 2008 12:04 AM | Report abuse
McNasty showed up tonight with his plant, Joe the Plumber. He smirked and scoffed and huffed and puffed. But Big Bad John couldn't blow down the Temple of Obama.
More raffish than arrogant, calm and cool, the rightful heir to the JFK mystique, Barack let McCain bluster and flail, applying the salve after Johnny Rocket burned and fizzled.
The mainstream polls are giving Obama a solid if not spectacular (as the Fix says) win. Fox and Drudge give an overwhelming rose-colored thumbs up.
Obama had his chances to put him away, and, true to form, perplexingly refused to do so. Schieffer asked McCain if he thought Obama did indeed "pal around with terrorists," as his running mate says, the candidate refused to answer. Obama very easily could have interjected something sharp and clever like, "John, how would you feel if Joe Biden said that Sarah Palin's husband has palled around with a bunch of secessionists?" But he didn't. Perhaps wisely -- if he ends up winning the election.
By not losing, of course, Obama wins the debate. But a seven-point lead easily could give way any combination of the following: the Bradley Effect; voting machine "irregularities" and the inability to do recounts without a paper trail; an "October Surprise"; or simply "buyer's remorse."
Obama won the battle tonight -- but he could have used the occasion to put it away. He didn't. And so we await the next shoe that I fear may drop, very soon.
ARE THE McCAIN-PALIN CROWD AGITATORS THE SAME STORMTROOPERS WHO DO THIS:
Posted by: scrivener50 | October 16, 2008 12:03 AM | Report abuse
McCain's "I'm not Bush" remark was lifted from a list formulated by Conservative pundits asked to come up with a one-liner. John 's handlers knew a couple of things; the pundits couldn't think of more than that by themselves, and McCain couldn't remember any more new material than one line.
McCain spent all the evening trying to score points by bashing Obama's plans instead of telling America what he was planning to do. He always looked so pleased with himself when he thought he'd scored, it was really pathetic.
Commentators on ABC kept talking about the "800 pound gorilla (the economy) in the room." I think they missed the 1 ton gorilla, Miss Condescending, Sarah Palin. Doggone it Sarah, Joe Six Pack ain't fooled by your, "I'm just like you" crap.
And if McCain wants Obama to stop mentiong his association with Bush, his campaign needs to get off the subject of Ayers, Wright, etc.
Posted by: halcyon1 | October 16, 2008 12:02 AM | Report abuse
John McCain knows his campaign is a train wreck on a rail to nowhere. As par for the course, he was fidgety, smirking, and yes, droning. Nothing new, no 'smackdown', just a sad stab at the whole Ayers/ACORN non-issue. Yawn.
McCain appeared flustered, ticked off at who knows what. Same old McSame. He may not be Bush in the flesh, but he's sided with Bush waaaay too much to be even remotely considered a reformer or a maverick. He's a wannabe.
McCain is a condescending, arrogant and ERRATIC old nag and it's time he was put out to pasture, and Palin put on a fast moose BACK to Wasilla in time for the Rapture.
Obama/Biden are the choice on 4 Nov.
Posted by: smsbks | October 16, 2008 12:02 AM | Report abuse
I thought the so-called debate was interesting but for the Moderator that injected the tit-for-tat questions that seem to just drain on and on as if feeding McCain.
SORRY EDWARD, BUT THE ANSWER IS THAT McCAIN WON...
Posted by: schneemans | October 16, 2008 12:02 AM | Report abuse
Barack Obama has a very mavericky name, y'know? He's a patriot, in spite of his maverick name: Hussein wants to serve America. Meanwhile, John McCain (his name rhymes with "pain") says he wants to serve America, and he has served America as a POW, but since then it's been "everything for himself" and not as much for the country. Maybe you'd be better off in Hanoi, Johnny Boy.
Posted by: rickyrab | October 16, 2008 12:02 AM | Report abuse
Obama was focused on the issues that are important for America. He spoke clearly about how to solve specific problems. McCain was full of sound bites but no substance. I am an independent who made his mind tonight. Obama won, he has my votPr
Posted by: ivancal | October 16, 2008 12:01 AM | Report abuse
Since the financial crisis, this Dem family is no longer undecided and now support McCain/Palin.
McCain's policies make sense - Obama's are primarily political ploys evidenced by his constant flip flopping on the issues.
Posted by: angie12106 | October 16, 2008 12:01 AM | Report abuse
37thandOStreet, let it go, will ya!
I actually thought McCain did a lot better tonight than in the prior two debates, but it still wasn't enough to up end the Great Debater, Senator Barack Obama, D-Illinois. I didn't hear anything new from McPainful that might change a conservative Democrat's mind. Even the statement from McCain, . . . oh, what was it? . . . 37thandOStreet, can you help me out here? . . . oh, I know, "I'm not George Bush." Well, we all know your not George Bush, Senator McCain. The problem is you have taken a right turn from the center lane (without using your turn signal!) in heavy traffic in order to get elected, causing not only a huge traffic jam in the right lane (that a lot of people are trying to pull out of now into the center lane), but you have also caused a lot of disgust among those in the center lane.
I think Senator McCain believes, much like Senator Clinton did, that he is entitled to the job. I also think voters can sense that feeling of entitlement and will force you to earn it, rather than expect it. I don't think voters believe Senator McCain has earned it. And it appears the "kitchen sink" is working as well for Senator McCain as it did for Senator Clinton. Well, good luck with that, Senator McCain.
A Conservative Democrat
Posted by: tfseem | October 16, 2008 12:00 AM | Report abuse
Holy Russert, is there any way to kill repeat posts? Maybe a one-comment-per-thread limit is in order here.
Meanwhile, as long as pounding out reruns is so En Vogue, I might as well join the party:
There's a post up in the PostPartisan section about McCain wanting to "go viral" with Joe the Plumber. Good idea, but I'm afraid the Obama-monkey-man footage can match JtP stride for stride.
As for non-JtP debate issues, McCain came off as regrettably 90's in his choice of issues. Did he really just peg his stance on The Issues to partial-birth abortion and (wow) school vouchers? He did? Really? Anyone over the age of 27 would recognize half of his small-ball debate material as being as dated to the Patrick Buchanan era as his "My democrat opponent will raise your taxes" hammering.
Bottom line, John: If you want to run against Michael Dukakis, then you should have run twenty years ago.
Posted by: QualityPie | October 16, 2008 12:00 AM | Report abuse
Since this sort of came up in the debate, anyone care to comment on/explain it:
Posted by: deacshades | October 15, 2008 11:59 PM | Report abuse
Try as they may the media really slanted tonight's debate.Frankly having a hard time who deserved my vote, it sure wasn't the Daily machine.I guess i will vote for Mac, at least he knows where the white house is located.Obamna. couldn't ever find the Senate to attend a place to vote. I don't know who the press will declare the winner. It is very easy to decide who lost. AMERICA
Posted by: rlhemmert1 | October 15, 2008 11:59 PM | Report abuse
Thus CNN:
" Fifty-eight percent of debate watchers questioned in the CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll said Democrat Obama did the best job in the debate, with 31 percent saying Republican Sen. John McCain performed best.
The poll also suggested that debate watchers' favorable opinion of Obama rose during the debate, from 63 percent at the start of the debate to 66 percent at the end of the debate. The poll indicates that McCain's favorables dropped, from 51 percent to 49 percent."
Posted by: thrh | October 15, 2008 11:58 PM | Report abuse
My 92 year old mother called me in the middle of the debate to tell me that Mc Cain should get that smirk off his face! She still lives alone and is very sharp but does not keep up with politics. She was just appalled at Mc Cains demeanor and behavior - she called him rude and disrespectful. I think the majority of Americans will agree with her!
Posted by: kathy4change | October 15, 2008 11:58 PM | Report abuse
Is there a reason why McCain's supporters need to cap all their comments?
Posted by: RegisUrgel | October 15, 2008 11:58 PM | Report abuse
@cordieray: the Chinese don't want our auto makers entering their market. My brother works for a company that's trying to make inroads in this regard, and he told me it's going to be quite a challenge.
@dummy4peace: Obama said that math is important to our national security, because our citizens' surfeit of mathematical ability hurts our economy, and we will have a difficult time maintaining the best military in the world if our economy isn't robust over the long term.
Ther person who keeps on posting the same thing over and over in each blog entry should get kicked off of this blog, in my opinion. I wonder what would happen if everyone started flagging his posts?
Posted by: Heron | October 15, 2008 11:58 PM | Report abuse
37th and O is clearly one of those special needs children Palin wants to help. No need to post the same nonsense 400 times.
Posted by: mimi8100 | October 15, 2008 11:58 PM | Report abuse
Clearly Obama won this final debate as he won the first two. This is a man with a first rate mind, eloquent, and very adaptable. John McCain said nothing concrete that make me believe he would substantially change the policies of George Bush and the Republican party. When cornered he always responded with the usual small government twaddle that got the country in this mess in the first place! We need real change!!
Posted by: Obadiah55 | October 15, 2008 11:58 PM | Report abuse
Dictionary Information: Definition Deceiver
Thesaurus: Deception
Description and Meaning: Deception
One who deceives; one who leads into error; a cheat; an impostor. "The deceived and the deceiver are his." JOB XII. 16.
Synonyms -- Deceiver, Impostor. A deceiver operates by stealth and in private upon individuals; an impostor practices his arts on the community at large. The one succeeds by artful falsehoods, the other by bold assumption. The faithless friend and the fickle lover are deceivers; the false prophet and the pretended prince are impostors.
Posted by: schneemans | October 15, 2008 11:57 PM | Report abuse
I thought the so-called debate was interesting but for the Moderator that injected the tit-for-tat questions that seem to just drain on and on as if feeding McCain.
Posted by: tho1mas | October 15, 2008 11:57 PM | Report abuse
To 37 Whatever your name is What debate were you watching? It certainly wasn't Obama against McCain because Obama won that debate hands down.
As far as taxes well I am not Joe the Plumber and McCain may give Joe (who must be making over a quarter million dollars a year to not be getting any tax cut) and if Obama choses to NOT give Joe a tax cut so he can give ME (Single male who received about 3 dollars a week in tax cuts over the entire Bush tenure in office) well Joe the Plumber can go screw himself because it was the Joes that got the bulk of the Bush tax cuts. It is MY turn now.
Both Obama's tax and health plans were far superior to McCain and 57, only blink partisanship or a complete lack of intelligence would fail to see that. That is the problem with America. Too many of the mentally challenged vote and they end up voting for people who don't even believe in America.
As far as Obama's past associations I thought he gave a clear and concise explanation of virtually all of them. And they are irrelevent. Besides Bush wins the body count war with Ayres and I would like some of you mentally challenged, like Mr. 57 here, to acknowledge that before they run their mouths off.
The Republicans with their smear campaignes have made it impossible for any candidate to be truly his or herself. I really do think that Obama can really soar with the rhetoric but when he did earlier he was criticized for that. Republicans have a way of burning people on their strengths, the most notable questioning Kerry's patriotism and bravery in the last election when Kerry was BY FAR the better man and still is than Bush.
What I liked tonight was that I was watching the next president of the US, Barrack Obama, calm and assured, concise and to the point. And what I saw made me proud.
Posted by: nyrunner101 | October 15, 2008 11:57 PM | Report abuse
MaCAIN WON THE DEBATE BY LARGE TONIGHT!
Posted by: schneemans | October 15, 2008 11:52 PM | Report abuse
Posted by: lynnL123 | October 15, 2008 11:56 PM | Report abuse
John McFlop got whipped and I will tell you it was on his back side. He is toast.
Posted by: ramsistla | October 15, 2008 11:56 PM | Report abuse
How come all the average people seem to be named Joe? No wonder the Pope (Joe Ratzinger) changed his name (Benedict XVI).
Posted by: rickyrab | October 15, 2008 11:55 PM | Report abuse
MaCAIN WON THE DEBATE BY LARGE TONIGHT!
Posted by: schneemans | October 15, 2008 11:52 PM | Report abuse
Posted by: lynnL123 | October 15, 2008 11:55 PM | Report abuse
I am not President Bush - If you wanted to run against President Bush You Should Have Run 4 Years Ago. No one believes you MCSHAME!
McCain is out of gas tonight - conceding Obama point after point.
On the Economy clearly McCain is befuddled. Obama as the High Road candidate who is intent on properly managing the economy.
On Congressman Lewis Obama did the right thing - lending credibility to the notion that the Obama campaign stands by Congressman Lewis speaking the TRUTH.
McCain lost the Tax Debate - cringing before Obama by framing the issue in the prism of small business and jobs - which is the WORST economic analysis.
McCain has been confused all night - making either a contradiction or an inconsistency.
Everytime Obama caught McCain in a deception or a lie McCain smiled like he knew he was caught and McCain looked like he was attempting to hide his lies with a smile.
Towards the end of the debate McCain stopped smiling - McCain looked tired and beaten.
Obama won the debate point by point slamming McCain and showing how Obama will lead this Nation To Prosperity Again.
Posted by: Oand37thStreet | October 15, 2008 11:55 PM | Report abuse
A clear win for Senator Obama. Senator McCain threw the kitchen sink at him but he countered with clear and coherent responses that people can understand.
Ayers is officially a dead issue, we all know he's a professor serving on a board supported by many prominent Republicans. The argument "he pals around with terrorists" falls on deaf ears.
ACORN is also a dead issue. John McCain wants to make this a voter fraud issue and Obama clearly demonstrated that it is not voter fraud but voter registration fraud. ACORN employees are paid to register voters, they are not volunteers. It's likely their employees may have filled up their sheets with phony names to get a paycheck. That's not voter fraud. The Dallas Offensive line does not get to vote in Colorado. It's a ridiculous accusation that was clearly countered.
And that was the story of the night, Mccain attacked and Obama successfully countered. Obama's position on the economy is winning a majority of the electorate according to polls and McCain has no counter-argument knock him down. Obama has a lead and he's pacing himself. Mccain seemed erratic, quickly bailing on the Ayers accusation and jumping back and forth between GOP talking points. No game changer tonight for McCain.
Obama wins the series 3-0.
Posted by: eddiemoney13 | October 15, 2008 11:55 PM | Report abuse
First of all, Obama focused on facts, attempted to move the discussion to issues, and McCain predictably moved to rumors and character smearing. It is clear who is not qualified to be our President. Also, regarding posts/blogs, the group "37thandOStreet" must feel very smug by posting the same canned conservative pablum every few minutes, but this is only annoying and rude when we are trying to exchange opinions. However, it is an accurate reflection of the neo-con movement, which has discovered that inaccurate statements become 'truthy' when repeated often. See Palin rewrite the Alaska investigation findings as having found her not guilty of any unethical wrongdoing:-) Keep practicing your lines, but none of you will have parts in the next play.
Posted by: jgoldberg1 | October 15, 2008 11:54 PM | Report abuse
McCain spent too much time being angry and sarcastic, and not enough time telling Americans just what HE was going to do. Obama answered the questions and kept his cool during McCain's eye rolling and ugly sighs. I certainly don't want McCain's hot temper at work when dealing with foreign countries. The world hates us enough as it is.
I also didn't like McCain's snide comment about abortions and life of the mother just being a pro-abortion trick, as if the mother wasn't worth anything. His facial expression said it all. That was just nasty.
Posted by: GenuineRisk | October 15, 2008 11:53 PM | Report abuse
This is like 100 positive Obama comments and one McCain supporter posting the same message over and over. 37th, you can post your comment over and over again, but it doesn't make any more the truth.
Obama and Biden won all 4 debates. McCain had a few good lines surrounded by swarminess, anger, and confusion. Now it's up to the American people let McCain go get some rest.
Posted by: TooDarkMark | October 15, 2008 11:53 PM | Report abuse
37thandOMG, McSHAME lost the debate, and now YOU are losing the spin!
Your message is NOT getting across, and there is NOTHING you can do about it.
You LOSE, because you are a LOSER!!!
Posted by: Oand37thStreet | October 15, 2008 11:53 PM | Report abuse
Joe the Plumber: If he is making a quarter million in profit, and he is so stressed about getting a 3% tax hike for the income over $250K (in order for us to responsibly afford a middle class tax cut), then he is not only selfish, but actually also a bad business man. That middle class tax cut might make the difference between paying $100 to fix that annoying leaky toilet or just living with it. Seriously, things like minor plumbing issues - a big source of revenue since those are easy jobs that make a lot of profit for little time spent on job - are the first things that people give up in a bad economy.
Posted by: jak2 | October 15, 2008 11:53 PM | Report abuse
Everywhere on TV the pundits made lots of efforts to say nice things about McCain. How it was his best debate, but not Obama's best, etc. It has the sound of a funeral march. The pundits have to do something to keep viewership up for the next three weeks. They shouldn't worry, the same junkies will keep watching, surfing etc. There is still a suspense. It already feels comfortable for many, but it is still incredible a Black man will be President. These are truly extraordinary times.
Posted by: RegisUrgel | October 15, 2008 11:52 PM | Report abuse
MaCAIN WON THE DEBATE BY LARGE TONIGHT!
Posted by: schneemans | October 15, 2008 11:52 PM | Report abuse
It's hard to believe McCain is trying to woo voters. He said that he would cut taxes on big businesses. Whatever you might think of that as economic policy, it's not going to gain you more votes. And his comment about the health of women was unbelievable. Can it be that he's afraid that he might win?
Posted by: patrican | October 15, 2008 11:51 PM | Report abuse
Obama looked confident and bright - AND put to rest the questions about Congressman Lewis and Acorn
Obama was awesome.
The American people deserve these TRUTHFUL answers. McCain is playing the American people choosing to deceive them and lie to them time after time - The American people know that McCain does not have the right character to lead this nation.
Posted by: Oand37thStreet | October 15, 2008 11:51 PM | Report abuse
I don't think McBush's line was very good at all. I don't get why you MSM types think is was so great. But then again, you have proven your judgment is not very good this entire election cycle.
Posted by: havok26 | October 15, 2008 11:50 PM | Report abuse
Whiny McCain attempted to smirk his way to victory tonight at Hofstra University and failed miserably.
McCain showed why Americans could never trust him in the Oval Office by choosing to pander to his audience's emotions rather than convincing them with his arguments and policies. McCain chose to rehash the same half-truths and outright lies he's been peddling for months now.
Obama was cool but engaged, deferential to valid points from McCain but insistent on having his policies explained and defended.
Obama is DEFINITELY who America will want to have answering that mythical 3am phone call. McCain's diehard supporters will claim he dominated this event as they have for all the debates, but their shrill cries already have the sound of false enthusiasm.
McCain is toast. I'm sure the Republican National Committee will start pulling even more money from his campaign to spend on defending endangered Senate and House GOP incumbents following this disastrously inadequate performance by the senior senator from Arizona.
Posted by: JC505 | October 15, 2008 11:50 PM | Report abuse
Obama looked arrogant and smug - AND Obama did not answer the questions about Congressman Lewis and Acorn
Obama was a mess.
The American people deserve these TRUTHFUL answers - not some arrogant deception - Obama is playing the American people choosing to deceive them and lie to them time after time - The American people know that Obama does not have the right character to lead this nation.
Posted by: 37thandOStreet
If the American people know that Obama's not ready, why then do you feel the need to campaign in this comment forum?
Oh, that's right, you know that the Fossil and the Beauty Queen are circling the drain , as are your failed republican policies.
Remember a couple of years ago when Tom Delay said something to the effect of "permanent republican majority". How does it feel to know that 8 years of republican rule have caused the greatest expansion of our government and nationalization of private industry in almost a century?
Posted by: JoeMck | October 15, 2008 11:50 PM | Report abuse
"John McCain seemed angry...I know it's about the issues, but he will have to negotiate with many people with whom he may disagree as President - and I don't see him being successful with his inability to hide disdain."
Senator McCain has undermined his argument about being able to forge bipartisan agreement. On issue after issue, he's come across as being closed to views different from his own. Meanwhile its Senator Obama who's talking about finding common ground.
Posted by: bsimon1 | October 15, 2008 11:49 PM | Report abuse
GRUMPY ANGRY INTEMPERATE OLD MAN versus cool, unflappable, articulate, clear-thinking intelligent younger man
Posted by: MikeinAlabama | October 15, 2008 11:49 PM | Report abuse
I am not President Bush - If you wanted to run against President Bush You Should Have Run 4 Years Ago. No one believes you MCSHAME!
McCain is out of gas tonight - conceding Obama point after point.
On the Economy clearly McCain is befuddled. Obama as the High Road candidate who is intent on properly managing the economy.
On Congressman Lewis Obama did the right thing - lending credibility to the notion that the Obama campaign stands by Congressman Lewis speaking the TRUTH.
McCain lost the Tax Debate - cringing before Obama by framing the issue in the prism of small business and jobs - which is the WORST economic analysis.
McCain has been confused all night - making either a contradiction or an inconsistency.
Everytime Obama caught McCain in a deception or a lie McCain smiled like he knew he was caught and McCain looked like he was attempting to hide his lies with a smile.
Towards the end of the debate McCain stopped smiling - McCain looked tired and beaten.
Obama won the debate point by point slamming McCain and showing how Obama will lead this Nation To Prosperity Again.
Posted by: Oand37thStreet | October 15, 2008 11:49 PM | Report abuse
Did anyone besides me notice the Bush Smirk on John McCain's face? That in itself should tell people who is more Presidential. Do you really want a President who smirks? Obama listened to the question and listened to McCain. McCain just smirked. That is not what we need in a world leader. We need a person who can listen and make an intelligent decision and not just sit back and smirk.
Posted by: Westmichigangrandma | October 15, 2008 11:49 PM | Report abuse
McCain looked arrogant and mean - AND McCain would rather attack Congressman Lewis and Acorn rather than address our economic crisis.
McCain was a mess.
The American people deserve TRUTHFUL answers - not some self-righteous deception - McCain is playing the American people choosing to deceive them and lie to them time after time - The American people know that McCain does not have the right character to lead this nation.
Posted by: quatzecoutl | October 15, 2008 11:49 PM | Report abuse
John McCain changed some minds tonight.
Not the ones he was hoping to change, though.
Posted by: bracken1 | October 15, 2008 11:48 PM | Report abuse
I felt the first and third debates were pretty much draws in my mind. Obama won me over more due to McCain's crappy behavior offstage (before and between the debates) and during debate 2 - he was pretty erratic and didn't help matters by trying to spout rubbish about Obama, and he fouled up pretty badly when trying to settle the fiscal crisis.
Posted by: rickyrab | October 15, 2008 11:47 PM | Report abuse
McCain had some good moments, but overall he appeared testy, almost bitter. Sometimes he was very clear, but overall he was closing points by bringing in the kitchen sink. He seemed almost overeager, and worst of all sometimes he smirked but ended up looking like a used car salesman trying to shame a customer into a deal.
His very worst moment -- defending Palin. Not only has she encouraged racist red meat moments in her campaign, but she is, without a question, not qualified to be President.
I used to have a lot of respect for McCain until he nominated Palin. Satisfies the base, but not the other 75% of the country.
Posted by: bilco5 | October 15, 2008 11:47 PM | Report abuse
That's 4 debates, 4 convincing debate wins for Barack Obama and Joe Biden!
Obama outclassed and outcooled McCain yet again tonight.
McCain = Erratic + Angry + Bush clone
Obama = Composed + Calm + Real, positive change for middle class Americans
Stop being sore losers, Republicans. Take your loss and deal with it!
Posted by: jgarrisn | October 15, 2008 11:45 PM | Report abuse
A note to Joe the Plumber, and other small business men and women. If, after paying your employees, and the rent, and your suppliers, and the other bills that every small business has, you're taking home more than a quarter of a million dollars a year, Congratulations. You've made the big time. Its time to start giving back to the only country in the world that would give you the opportunity to start a small business and raise yourself into the upper class of society solely through hard work and persistence. The country that has made this possible asks that you pay a slightly higher tax rate now that you're in teh big leagues. Frankly, we're hurting. We've been spending more than we should for too many years, and its time for the people who've benefited most to step up to the plate and help put this country back on the right track. Thank you for your service, and for taking the burden off the people who can least afford to pay higher taxes.
Gotta go with this as the comment of the night.
Posted by: bantred | October 15, 2008 11:45 PM | Report abuse
Obama looked confident and bright - AND put to rest the questions about Congressman Lewis and Acorn
Obama was awesome.
The American people deserve these TRUTHFUL answers. McCain is playing the American people choosing to deceive them and lie to them time after time - The American people know that McCain does not have the right character to lead this nation.
Posted by: Oand37thStreet | October 15, 2008 11:44 PM | Report abuse
Hey 37thAndO .. we get it, OK? You keep re-posting the same stuff like some guy who can't figure out how a browser works. Jeez, give it a rest.
Posted by: chrisfox8 | October 15, 2008 11:44 PM | Report abuse
John McCain seemed angry...I know it's about the issues, but he will have to negotiate with many people with whom he may disagree as President - and I don't see him being successful with his inability to hide disdain.
Also, I was downright offended by his idea that 'health of the woman' is a bogus issue when it comes to abortion. I don't think abortion should decide the election, but since we've had three debates, it is okay for it to come up in at least one of them. It didn't have to be 10 minutes though - you are correct about that.
Also, McCain looked like he had never even gone to Obama's website to get the basics on his health care plan. I'm sure there are some criticisms he could have raised about it instead of the embarassingly debunked ones that he did (mandate,fines, small business). That was just embarassing. It's like he read the Clinton plan a bunch of years ago and decided that it must be the same so why bother reading up on Obama's plan.
Posted by: jak2 | October 15, 2008 11:44 PM | Report abuse
Obama won as he has every other debate. McCain was angry and petulant- which is not the kind of Prez I want taking 3am calls .
Posted by: dougm2 | October 15, 2008 11:42 PM | Report abuse
Saying "I'm not George Bush" is pretty hard to believe when you vote with George Bush on every important issue, and you are proposing the same crap policies.
The McCain campaign should just shut down. No one is really taking him seriously anymore.
Posted by: josha | October 15, 2008 11:42 PM | Report abuse
Most Americans:
* agree with Sen. Obama's policies and governing philosophy
* see Sen. Obama as more Presidential
* think Sen. Obama is the level-headed, intelligent leader we need in these troubled times
Posted by: ScottinNC | October 15, 2008 11:42 PM | Report abuse
Why is education always the last issue in any campaign?
But Bob did mention that math can be critical to our national security. Obama disagreed with him. He thinks math failure can hurt our economy. Math is the language of science and engineering in addition to economics. Without competent math skills, we cannot compete globally.
Posted by: dummy4peace | October 15, 2008 11:42 PM | Report abuse
Some of the more interesting things I noticed: 1. God wasn't watching tonight, therefore the candidates didn't mention him at all. 2. McCain's "friends" have deserted him and he must know it, he was too recalcitrant to utter "my friends". 3. If a spending freeze could warm up a frozen credit market and economy, then why am I involved in a 750 Billion dollar promise? 4. Selling GM and Ford to the Chinese (and they have the DOLLARS to buy both is the only economic solution that hasn't been pitched... or enacted...yet.
Posted by: cordieray | October 15, 2008 11:41 PM | Report abuse
Besides the fact that visually McCain looked as if he was about to blow a gasket, and manifest visceral hatred, I agree with others who saw a big gaffe in his derisive dismissal of "woman's health" as a smokescreen for pro-abortion people. That was a major mistake, feeds into a perception of this guy as a cold one. McCain's performance was dismal and I cannot recall a presidential debate where a candidate looked so flat-out surly, sullen, and malicious. That dude needs to retire and chill out. He's over the edge, all this stuff is getting to him. The Shining. Yikes.
Posted by: Plutonium57 | October 15, 2008 11:41 PM | Report abuse
37th, our very own Palin like toxic blond, one word - Prozac. Get some and take it regularly.
Posted by: mibrooks27 | October 15, 2008 11:40 PM | Report abuse
McCain just reeks of desperation at this point. It is embarrassing. His campaign has become laughable to all.
Obama, speaking/looking/acting Presidential as usual.
Posted by: josha | October 15, 2008 11:40 PM | Report abuse
Obama wins. McCain goes down in a fiery blaze.
Posted by: JoeMck | October 15, 2008 11:40 PM | Report abuse
Its Official- John McShame is erratic, planless, visionless and has now ran out time.
I wonder how a man who doesnt send or read e-mails in this 21st century like McShame intends to lead the most technologically advanced and sophisticated country in the world.
I already thinking of the post Bush years and the prosperity that awaits America under an Obama presidency.
Posted by: roberta2 | October 15, 2008 11:40 PM | Report abuse
Mainstream media "analysts" - as well as Chris - continue to score these debates like a boxing match, in terms of the "jabs" or knockout blows" delivered. What they've failed to glom onto is that most Americans aren't interested in that aspect at all - they want substantive answers on the issues that concern them. Which is why, a couple of days from now, Obama will once again see his poll numbers rise.
Posted by: bclark3 | October 15, 2008 11:40 PM | Report abuse
McCain's best is simply not enough. Obama is clearly the more intelligent, more articulate and the cooler head. I want a negoatiator, not someone looking for a "victory" that simply cannot be had.
For these times - Obama is the clear winner of this race.
Posted by: billmnt | October 15, 2008 11:38 PM | Report abuse
What was the McCain "village idiot grin" whenever the camera went to him while Obama was talking all about?
Posted by: markbau | October 15, 2008 11:38 PM | Report abuse
Obama won. He stayed to his points.
Unfortunately so did McCain. Which sadly mostly are to say Ayers is as important as the war, remember the warS?
So come on Senator at least tells us something Obama needs to tell us about Ayers that he has not.
McCain simply did not say anything new. What he says that is old has failed us and him.
Posted by: justmehla | October 15, 2008 11:37 PM | Report abuse
I don't see how anyone can say McCain won the debate. Obama was articulate and specific about his proposals, while McCain was vague and mean-spirited. There's just no contest here, and if Obama were white, the poll numbers would reflect that. I hope we don't squander this opportunity to elect one of the best and brightest presidents ever.
Posted by: amreynol | October 15, 2008 11:34 PM | Report abuse
McCain lost by a landslide! McCain seemed like a crabby old man, angry at the world and ready to kill someone. Obama was poised, thoughtful and leader-like. Obama won it by a mile and a half.
Posted by: famunasmd | October 15, 2008 11:32 PM | Report abuse
Obama on points, neither side scoring even a TKO.
McCain was well dug-in, but spent too much time being reactive, or falsifying the facts about Obama's positions. He grimaced when he tried to smile, looking like he was sitting on a piece of rebar, vertical. Obama was unflappable, and presented clear positive programmatic descriptions of his proposals. McCain, not so much, sticking to wooly good ideas.
Clear win on points for the Senator from Illinois.
Posted by: amos1 | October 15, 2008 11:32 PM | Report abuse
Debate winner:
Posted by: KansasDem | October 15, 2008 11:31 PM | Report abuse
I'm sick of you and the racist white MSM calling Obama arrogant! He's NOT arrogant! He was being polite!
Posted by: NMP1 | October 15, 2008 11:29 PM | Report abuse
A note to Joe the Plumber, and other small business men and women. If, after paying your employees, and the rent, and your suppliers, and the other bills that every small business has, you're taking home more than a quarter of a million dollars a year, Congratulations. You've made the big time. Its time to start giving back to the only country in the world that would give you the opportunity to start a small business and raise yourself into the upper class of society solely through hard work and persistence. The country that has made this possible asks that you pay a slightly higher tax rate now that you're in teh big leagues. Frankly, we're hurting. We've been spending more than we should for too many years, and its time for the people who've benefited most to step up to the plate and help put this country back on the right track. Thank you for your service, and for taking the burden off the people who can least afford to pay higher taxes.
Posted by: bsimon1 | October 15, 2008 11:28 PM | Report abuse
There's a post up in the PosPartisan section about McCain wanting to "go viral" with Joe the Plumber. Good idea, but I'm afraid the Obama-monkey-man footage can match JtP stride for stride.
As for non-JtP debate issues, McCain came off as regrettably 90's in his choice of issues. Did he really just peg his stance on The Issues to partial-birth abortion and (wow) school vouchers? He did? Really? Anyone over the age of 27 would recognize half of his small-ball debate material as being as dated to the Patrick Buchanan era as his "My democrat opponent will raise your taxes" hammering.
Bottom line, John: If you want to run against Michael Dukakis, then you should have run twenty years ago.
Posted by: QualityPie | October 15, 2008 11:28 PM | Report abuse
McCain's dismissive reference to the issue of a mother's health in the context of abortion just cost him lots of women's votes – at least women not named "Forester de Rothschild"
Posted by: FlownOver | October 15, 2008 11:26 PM | Report abuse
Those of you who said McCain won the debate were not watching the same debate that I was. He lost most of the female voters who were still uncommitted when he belittled the health of the mother in deciding when, or if, to abort a fetus. The only female in the room when he said that,my wife,who is pro life, crawled back on the couch like a big bug entered the room when he said that. And we both laughed out loud when he said that ACORN was "endangering the fabric of democracy." Angry John lost this debate as he had the previous debates.
Posted by: Opa2 | October 15, 2008 11:25 PM | Report abuse
McCain looked extremely frustrated and angry. He needs to relax. He comes off as a guy who can't stand the fact that he might lose. Obama talks about what we need to do, and McCain only talks about Obama. In short, we've learned nothing about McCain over the last few months except that he wants to be president really, really badly. And he's really, really angry he might not be.
Posted by: ChrisDC | October 15, 2008 11:25 PM | Report abuse
To borrow words from Neal Stephenson, Obama came off as more "media cool," and McCain more "media hot," which is (to a greater degree, I admit) a problem that Nixon once had in another televised debate.
Posted by: dinghao | October 15, 2008 11:22 PM | Report abuse
Obama won. He was calm and collected. McCain was all over the place.
Posted by: kvaldemar | October 15, 2008 11:16 PM | Report abuse
Obama clearly won tonight - McCain's attacks were just that - attacks on an opponent who is clearly beating him. McCain looked conceited, upset, rattled and just plain mean many times tonight, while Obama was calm and clear in his responses. Yes, at times, McCain was passionate but, his passion was misplaced - defending himself and his campaign of smears and attacks and on abortion. He did exactly what Obama said he was doing - misrepresented facts and used innuendo and lies in his responses. If there was ever any question in my mind of who would be able to lead this country it has been erased tonight.
Posted by: heidict | October 15, 2008 11:16 PM | Report abuse
I don't see how this debate significantly changes the race. A couple nice shots from McCain, like the 'you should've run four years ago'. Obama defused the Ayers attack by noting the other board members at the time. End result: McCain is still way behind, apparently without an effective plan to catch up. Barring unforeseen external events, the race is essentially over.
Posted by: bsimon1 | October 15, 2008 11:16 PM | Report abuse
McCain's aim/job tonight was to change people's mind. He failed. Worse, he came off as angry and vindictive. I watched the debate on CNN, as usual, and watched the audience reaction graph. Every time McCain went on an attack, he plunged. His closing remarks were *very* well received, but that was about it. Obama was consistent, calm, and Presidential throughout.
Posted by: mibrooks27 | October 15, 2008 11:10 PM | Report abuse
Obama gave a clear, fact-filled discussion about Ayers. McCain responded by repeating his same lies and accusations. Republicans have been doing this for years. I think most people aren't fooled by this any more.
Posted by: dotellen | October 15, 2008 11:09 PM | Report abuse
I just can't shake the feeling that McCain McCan't.
Posted by: dinghao | October 15, 2008 11:06 PM | Report abuse
Obama is methodical, analytical, and responds point by point in the little time allowed. McCain dissembles and creates confuscation which is seemingly his only weapon against his opponent. McCain comes across consistently demeaning, dishonest, and anemic, barely able to vocalize his vowels and consonants of false accusations and innuendos about Obama. I vote for an intelligent and insightful leader as winner tonight: Barack Obama. If we were ever given a light at the end of this dark tunnel of confusion, misconceptions, and post-Bush debacle, our greatest gift for ourselves and our descendants will be the vote for Obama.
Posted by: timeforhonesty | October 15, 2008 11:06 PM | Report abuse
McCain was much more aggressive tonight. . .I think we can all agree on that. However, aggressive does NOT mean effective. While he was clearly trying to gain the offense, he came across as angry and irritated while Obama was cool and collected. In short, Obama was presidential while McCain looked like he was about to become unhinged. This will not significantly change the trajectory and Obama will likely become the next president.
Posted by: billbolducinmaine | October 15, 2008 11:06 PM | Report abuse
I think that if any paper had the 'nads to print it, the headline on this would be "Obama blows out McCain." It wasn't a completely unqualified blowout but Obama's domination tonight was what we expected the Palin-Biden debate to be like.
The format suited Obama amazingly well. Every time McCain brought up the character issues or the labels with which he's trying to stick Obama, Obama was able to offer a clear reply. Given what the polls are saying about voters trusts lately, I think Obama probably turned those attacks against McCain in the eyes of most voters. And then, with the nice lengthy format, Obama was able to keep talking and offer the hopeful vision which attracted candidates to him in the first place.
McCain was just completely off message! Given the chance to debate he frequently went on the attack in a way that didn't answer the question at all. I imagine he fired up the base quite a bit by constantly saying Obama wants to raise taxes but seeing as Obama refuted that point in the first 10 minutes of the debate, I can't see that being a winner.
And calling out for a culture war on abortion... somebody needs to tell McCain that the majority of American's consider abortion to be a difficult issue. Personally, I found the notion that we needed a culture war to get people with moderate views in line to be condescending to the point of being offensive.
Obama could not have asked for a better venue to get his message out. McCain's biggest blessing is that since it's the third debate, not many people were watching who haven't decided.
Posted by: theamazingjex | October 15, 2008 11:05 PM | Report abuse
Obama has the presidential temperament;
McCain does not.
Calm, steady, considered statements are what we need from our leaders.
Snide remarks, rolling of the eyes, and
huffy demeanor are decidedly UNpresidential.
Posted by: wwIIbaby | October 15, 2008 11:03 PM | Report abuse
Wow the GOP trolls are jumpy tonight. Don't blame them, looking forward to an authentic liberal for president for eight years.
This debate? McCain attacked and attacked, playing right into the Obama campaign characterization as "erratic," and in case he's the last one to know it, attacking Obama isn't working. It too starkly contradicts the impression Obama has made, that of an impeccably reasonable man.
And oh, McCain sounds terribly old and frail.
Posted by: chrisfox8 | October 15, 2008 11:02 PM | Report abuse
See a McCain rally go bad, Booing and People leaving. A song Hank Williams sang was vulgar and offended some. Heres the clip
Who won the Best Palin Impersonator Contest? Not Tina Fey. See Clip.
Posted by: pastor123 | October 15, 2008 11:01 PM | Report abuse
Pundits are happy that McCain was feisty. But he was scattered and not talking to independents in economically distressed swing states. (Abortion? Free trade?) Feisty isn't enough.
Posted by: billmcg1 | October 15, 2008 11:00 PM | Report abuse
For all the talk about John McCain's performance tonight, it actually turned me off more than almost anything except his pick of a running mate. He looked condescending and interrupted frequently. I took great exception to his contention that he was right to go very, very personal and negative because Obama didn't do town hall meetings - is this junior high? When asked about the negative tone of the campaign he focused on his hurt feelings because someone pointed out that the tone of the campaign could foster not only discontent but violence. He has not addressed the issue of the tone, he did not take responsibility for the insinuations that he helped foster. More than anything, I felt this debate made me respect Senator McCain less - and I was a supported in the primaries.
Posted by: puppiesandkitties | October 15, 2008 10:56 PM | Report abuse
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