Learning the hard way: Moving from NYC to Palo Alto and back in 1.5 months - <AUTHOR> http://joshrweinstein.com/

<comment><USER2> The title of the article suggests that it was a mistake to leave NYC for Palo Alto, but there is nothing in the article which suggests Palo Alto was the problem. You may as well have titled this article "I got screwed by a guy named Ted".

It would probably still have been easier to move forward and develop your app in the Valley. I've been to General Assembly and it's a nice venue and I hope it continues to grown. But you can't suggest that the interactions and people you will meet there will compare to they types of advisors, investors, developers and potential CTO's you would have met in the Valley, or even just in Palo Alto.

<comment><USER3> does Ted know we're talking about him?

<comment><AUTHOR> I don't think so

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> The software on Hacker News is telling me that my comment is too long, so I will have to break it into 2 comments.

Here is part #1:

I do not know Josh Weinstein and for all I know he is a really great guy, and very trustworthy. None of my remarks here should be regarded as aimed at Josh.

However, I am a computer programmer who has worked with a lot of inexperienced entrepreneurs. In the style of the movie Rashamon, I feel like I could write something like Josh's post, where the same events happen yet they have a completely different meaning when told from a different point of view. Certainly, I've had conversations that sort of resemble what Josh describes, and I could pick out the various bits that I, too, would mark as "Red Flags", but for me the red flags concerned the entrepreneur that I was working with.

Again, these comments are not about Josh. But I feel like I've often played a role similar to that played by the developer he describes. And I've backed out of projects at the last minute, just like this developer did. I will here try describe what some of these discussions have felt like on my end.

Week #1:

Entrepreneur: I'm really excited to have you as part of this project!

Me: I'm really excited to be a part of this project!

Entrepreneur: Tracking which ads get clicks in videos is going to be huge!

Me: I think it will change things in a disruptive way and it will be exciting for independent content producers.

Entrepreneur: Exactly, we are going to empower them with information so they know exactly what they can charge!

Me: You understand that this project is too large for me to tackle alone?

Entrepreneur: Of course! That's why I'm putting together a team with diverse talents.

Me: Great! Who else do you have on board?

Entrepreneur: I've been talking to a guy in Britain who is really excited about this. Also a guy in Romania. And I've got a friend, Tom, from my home town who is really into this.

Me: Well, if they are all good, then, yes, a team of 4 programmers would be perfect to get this started.

Entrepreneur: Of course. I mean, just to ramp up. We'll hire more later.

Me: And all of these people are willing to work just for equity? None of these people need money?

Entrepreneur: Everyone is excited to be part of this!

Me: Hmm, okay. Well, I'll be free in 2 weeks and I look forward to ramping up the operation then. How about we do a big Skype call with the whole team at that time?

Entrepreneur: Sounds good!

2 weeks later:

Me: Okay, I'm free now. Are we ready to do the big Skype call?

Entrepreneur: Sure! Tom has worked out the whole marketing plan! He's going to describe it to us!

Me: Marketing plan? Tom is in charge of marketing?

Entrepreneur: Of course! That's what he studied in school!

Me: Oh, my bad. For some reason I thought he was a computer programmer.

Entrepreneur: No, no, he's our CMO. He and I have been working night and day to work out the details.

Me: Okay, I guess it would be good to hear how we might pitch this once its built. Are the other 2 programmers ready to Skype?

Entrepreneur: Oh, yeah, about them, the guy in England got a job at Goldman Sachs, and the guy in Romania won't be free for another month.

Me: What??? Damn, that is a setback.

Entrepreneur: No, no, it's good!

Me: What do you mean good?

Entrepreneur: It gives us more time to get the other details right!!!

Me: But what else matters if we don't have any code?

Entrepreneur: That's where you come in! You can write the code!

Me: But I already told you this project is way too big for one programmer to handle!!!

Entrepreneur: Don't worry, I've got another guy, Bill, who is still in school but has promised he can give us 20 hours a week.

Me: 20 hours a week on top of full time school? Is that realistic?

Entrepreneur: This guy is amazing! He wrote his first complete software app back when he was just 4 years old! He knew Basic before he knew English!

Me: Uh, okay. Well, look, if he can pull it off, then that is great. Is Tom ready with the marketing pitch?

Entrepreneur: Tom, are you ready?

Tom: Sure! Well, for starters, after a lot of discussion, we came up with a name: VisionClaus! Because we offer people a vision, and we are giving away our vision like we are Santa Claus.

Me: Uh, um, how did you come up with that name?

Tom: Well, at first we were thinking of having the word "video" in our name, but then we decided that was too limiting.

Entrepreneur: Yeah, way too limiting.

Tom: So then we asked ourselves, what are we really about? And we realized we are about vision.

Entrepreneur: Yeah, exactly, all about vision.

Tom: And vision has a double meaning, of course, because you have to have vision, as in sight, to see video, but we also offer vision of a higher kind.

Entrepreneur: Yeah, much higher. We've very high.

Tom: We offer a vision of the future.

Entrepreneur: Exactly. We don't give a damn about the present. We're all about the future.

Tom: But also, we have certain core values that we hold to be important.

Entrepreneur: This is the part that means the most to me.

Tom: Above all, we are generous. We want to help people.

Entrepreneur: I find this so moving, at an emotional level, to think about how many people we are going to help. I almost want to cry.

Tom: And who else is generous? Well, Santa Claus is generous.

Entrepreneur: Based on a Christian saint.

Tom: So we realized VisionClaus was the best name for us.

Entrepreneur: And, surprisingly, the domain was still available.

Me: Um, uh, um, okaaaaaaaay. Well, look, that's a cool name and all, but in the short term, the most important thing we can do is write some code. So I think we need to focus on that for awhile.

Entrepreneur: Don't worry! You'll have a lot of help soon! Just start writing code now!

Me: Okay, give me a few weeks and I'll try to come up with prototype.

4 weeks later:

Me: Well, it's taken a lot of hacking but I think I got us a video player that handles diverse media types and tracks clicks.

Entrepreneur: Is that all it can do?

Me: Well, I've been working part-time. Where is that other programmer?

Entrepreneur: He is busy with school. But don't worry! I've got another guy in India who really wants to help us! But I think we need to make this software more exciting!

Me: What do you have in mind?

Entrepreneur: Can you track eyeballs?

Tom: Yes, we need eyeball information.

Me: What do you mean?

Entrepreneur: Like, where are people looking on screen? What interests them?

Me: Uh, well, with specialized equipment, in a lab, we could track eyeballs and generate a heat map.

Entrepreneur: No, I mean, when folks are at home and they watch our videos.

Me: What are you talking about? Obviously we can't track what people look at when they are at home, their home computers don't track eyeball movements.

Entrepreneur: Oh, well, that is disappointing. There is no equipment that can do this?

Me: Yes, there is equipment that can track eyeballs, but no, most folks don't have it at home. Or do you mean you want to mail them the equipment? Where would we get the money for that?

Entrepreneur: Then it's possible? Really? Don't worry about the money! We can raise the money!

Me: Wait a minute, if you can raise that kind of money then maybe you can start paying me something!

Entrepreneur: Oh, well, we can't raise that much. Anyway, we gave you significant, very significant equity in this company!

Me: You gave me 2%, which I appreciate, but it was with the understanding that you'd start paying me once you had some money.

Entrepreneur: And we will! Just hang in their a little longer! Keep writing code! Tom and I are almost done with our investor pitch!

Me: Tom is helping with the investor pitch?

Entrepreneur: Of course! He's our CIOO!

Me: What the hell is a CIOO?

Entrepreneur: Chief Investor Outreach Officer!

Me: Uh, okay.

Entrepreneur: Let's meet in 2 weeks and we'll show you our pitch!

Me: Okay.

<comment><USER4> The software on Hacker News is telling me that my comment is too long, so I will have to break it into 2 comments.

Here is part #2:

2 weeks later:

Entrepreneur: Are you ready to hear our new investor pitch?

Me: Yes, I'm ready.

Entrepreneur: We are going to blow you away! We've working till midnight every night to perfect this, and, wow! It's just going to blow you away!!!

Me: Okay, great, I look forward to hearing it.

Entrepreneur: Tom, read him the Executive Summary that we wrote for the business plan.

Tom: "The VisionClaus movement will put you in the driver's seat of conscious, real-time human evolution." *

Me: What?

Entrepreneur: It gets better!!!

Tom: "Humanity now faces an inflection point in its history. Creatures of communication, our societies will be transformed by the growing world awakedness facilitated by the revolution in communication technologies."

Me: What?

Entrepreneur: It gets better!!!

Tom: "What sort of changes can we expect? Will these new technologies empower humanity or enslave the masses? Will we be uplifted to the mountain top, or dropped into the pit? Are we green? Are we social?"

Entrepreneur: What do you think?

Me: That is your Executive Summary????

Entrepreneur: Punchy, isn't it?

Me: You have got to be kidding!!!

Entrepreneur: Uh, what? Why?

Me: What the hell are you selling? You didn't even mention how you are going to make money!!!

Entrepreneur: We didn't? Tom, did we say how we are going to make money?

Tom: Uh, hmmm, that must have gotten cut from the final draft.

Entrepreneur: We better put that back in.

Tom: Uh, okay. So, "monetizing the eyeballs of humanity's new wakefulness?"

Entrepreneur: Was that our final version?

Tom: Uh, or maybe it was "Facilitating real time interaction among needers and givers of services in the new era?"

Entrepreneur: Let's go with that.

Me: Don't you think it would be better to state something a bit more concrete?

Entrepreneur: No, no, we've got to be about vision. It's what makes us unique. Otherwise we'll just be another fly by night startup with a cheap gimmick.

Me: Well, we could also write software that works.

Entrepreneur: Of course, of course, that is very important. Don't you think that's important, Tom?

Tom: Very important.

Entrepreneur: But at this early stage, it's crucial that we impress people with our understanding of the larger picture.

Me: Look, I don't know much about fundraising, but I don't think your approach is going to work.

Entrepreneur: I'll have you know we just had a meeting with the CEO of a $6 billion dollar company.

Me: What! Wow! That is incredible! How the hell did you pull that off?

Entrepreneur: With vision! We impressed him with our vision!

Tom: It's true. He was impressed by our vision.

Me: But how did he hear about your vision? How did you get in front of him in the first place?

Entrepreneur: Oh, he was having dinner with my dad and I dropped in. They are old college buddies. But, listen, he was dazzled with our vision. And I believe he is going to invest $1 million dollars!

Me: Well, if that works out, then we are on our way!

Entrepreneur: We are on our way!

Tom: We've finally made it! After all our hard work! We've finally made it!

Me: So, I guess we have to give a demo?

Entrepreneur: What do you mean?

Me: I mean, of our software?

Entrepreneur: Why?

Me: Well, uh, he's not going to invest $1 million dollars without seeing the software, is he?

Entrepreneur: hmm, I hadn't thought of that.

Tom: Could be a serious roadblock.

Me: But I've got the prototype mostly working. We could explain that there's still some bugs to fix and features to add. Surely he could see through the flaws and understand the basic idea of what we are trying to do?

Entrepreneur: The problem is, we're no longer in the video space.

Me: What?

Tom: Yeah, the video idea was never that great to begin with.

Me: What?

Entrepreneur: I mean, YouTube is way ahead of us already when it comes to tracking clicks and stuff.

Me What?

Tom: If we could track eyeballs, then that would be different.

Entrepreneur: Yeah, see, if we were tracking people's eyeballs, that would be innovative. I could sell that.

Me: What?

Tom: The billionaire dude seemed to like the idea of magnets.

Me: What?

Entrepreneur: Yeah, programable magnets. You put them next to each other and they use self-organizing principles, just like ants, to assemble themselves into the marketing slogans of various companies.

Tom: So like, magnets for Apple would self assemble into the words "Think Different".

Entrepreneur: Like ants.

Tom: Self organizing.

Entrepreneur: We told him you could write the software in a week.

Tom: Can you do it?

Me: What?

Entrepreneur: You realize in a startup situation sometimes its important to pivot?

Tom: Especially in the face of setbacks in the marketplace.

Me: But we haven't suffered a setback in the marketplace. We haven't gotten to market yet!

Entrepreneur: That's because you have failed to give us anything that we can use to raise funds from an investor to hire a team so we can build something that gets to market! We're just trying to cover for your various failures!

Tom: Yeah, dude, and, to be completely frank about this, we're kind of tired of always having to carry you.

Me: What?

Entrepreneur: But we are willing to give you a second chance. You just need to write the code for the self organizing magnets.

Tom: In a week.

Entrepreneur: Can you do it?

And then, surprisingly, I suddenly ended my relationship with this entrepreneur.

Follow up notes: I'm only exaggerating slightly in my description of the above events. There were really several discussions which, when described with perfect accuracy, draw a reaction of "That can not possibly be true." But, yes, it really did all happen like that.

I have, above all, condensed events -- things that played out over many months I'm here describing as if they occurred during a few weeks. I'd have to write a book to describe all the details. Other friends of mine were there with me, working at the same place, and I'm emailing them this thread on Hacker News, so they can comment if they wish.

The funny thing is, I worked with this entrepreneur, on and off, almost full time for 18 months, and part-time for longer, (sometimes paid, sometimes not) and after awhile I realized all the projects we worked on were doomed, because he lacked the seriousness to pull it off. And, funny thing, when I finally quit he threatened to sue me, and he said that I'd betrayed him, and he was very angry. It was a really odd situation.

All of this is to say, there are moments when a developer realizes they need to drop an entrepreneur. That is, sometimes the programmer needs to fire their entrepreneur. As you get to know an entrepreneur, you develop a sense about whether they are capable of pulling something off. Especially if you are working for equity, it really is crucial to believe the entrepreneur can succeed, because if they can't, then you get nothing for all of your hard work. And if you have multiple offers in front of you, you've got to go with whichever entrepreneur seems the most likely to succeed.

Without money, written agreements have almost no value, even in the courts. If an entrepreneur can not pay a programmer, then a written agreement is worthless. Giving equity in a company that has no assets is sort of a joke, and it is a bit of a cruel joke if all the assets in the company need to be created by the programer themselves -- in that case you (the entrepreneur) are basically offering to pay them with equity in themselves: "I'll give you 5% of all of your hard work if you give me the other 95%."

Anyway, I love startups and have spent most of the last 10 years working mostly with startups, and I have to say, if the entrepreneur doesn't seem 100% solid, the programmer should just walk away.

* This is an actual sentence from an actual Executive Summary that I heard as it was read to Michael Donovan ( [http://www.donovandata.com/about/executive-biographies.html#...](http://www.donovandata.com/about/executive-biographies.html#MichaelDonovan) ) by someone who wanted money from him. I've only changed the name of the company that I "worked" for. I later got a copy of that business plan and I keep it with me as a sort of memento of a very strange time.

<comment> wh-uws Hey man you should really turn that into a comic strip or book or something. At least a blog post.

It was both hilarious and informative.

But I think a problem alot of programmers have is standing up for themselves and being upfront and saying "You promised me X and if I don't get it I won't feel obligated to deliver Y"

That is the part that frustrates me. When people either:

\- won't stand up for themselves and communicate their needs

\- take the passive aggressive route of just walking of and not saying anything when you could have let the guy know how he was failing you.

Now you were pretty much right with what you did. But on the other end the OP was left wondering why.

A couple of awkward but straightforward conversations would have avoided both situations

<comment><USER4> Thanks, wh-uws. I've posted it to my blog here:

[http://www.smashcompany.com/business/sometimes-a-computer- pr...](http://www.smashcompany.com/business/sometimes-a-computer-programmer- needs-to-fire-their-entrepreneur)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Not sure what signed employment contracts have to do with someone flaking on starting a job. Guy doesn't want to work for you, he's not going to work for you. No contract in the world changes that. Companies that give out 5-figure signing bonuses still lose people to better offers. That's life in the big leagues.

You don't make yourself look better by slagging people for doing something that everybody does.

If you want to pick this apart, I'd be interested in knowing the whole story. What was the comp package you offered him?

<comment><AUTHOR> Significant, significant equity, co-founder CTO for venture-backed company.

<comment><USER5> I know you can't reasonably say what % you offered (you're still apparently a going concern), but know that people on HN are pretty accustomed to b-school types and their notions of what "significant equity" are.

Again though, the top line here is, we're in the middle of a tech bubble, there are a _lot_ of venture-backed companies, most of them are going to fail, tech comp packages have never ever been higher, competition is fierce, aggressive, and protracted. There has never been a worse time to assume you've got talent locked up.

I'm sympathetic to the idea that someone who isn't 100% sold shouldn't represent themselves as 100% sold. _BUT_. Oftentimes, we don't demand of others the frank answers we don't want to hear. How many serious sit-down conversations did you have with your potential partner about his commitment level? Your post is "Red flag!" "Red Flag!" "Warning sign!". Well, did you react to any of those flags?

If you didn't: I appreciate the idea of writing a post about the warning signs you've learned people should be looking for. However, if you ignored warning signs that the guy wasn't committed, it becomes harder to sympathize with the idea of a blog post designed to slag one guy for not signing on with your company.

If you did react to the warning signs and diligently qualified and re- qualified this guy and he kept coming back saying "absolutely I am one hundred fifty percent behind you": I agree you got shafted a bit, but again remind you that tech people mostly don't give a shit. A guy who can execute on the level you're saying you needed can simply write his own ticket. The game theory suggests that you have little to gain by lashing out.

((I'm having a really procrastinate-y morning, which comes from knowing I'm working super late tonight, so sorry I'm being so noisy. At least you're not on the logo design thread I'm howling at.*)

<comment><AUTHOR> a) I'm not a b-school guy, so it's legit significant equity. b) Understood on the competitive space front c) Repeatedly, repeatedly had those conversations with him. He NEVER said he wasn't going to start, and I continuously had him reaffirm that. d) I was somewhat pot-committed at the point that the red flags really started popping up...

<comment><USER6> I like the lessons. Good to keep in mind while hiring.

Having said that, this might also be a good moment to reflect. How can you make yourself a more attractive founder/company to work with? [You meet a girl, she's hot, she sees you for a bit and then moves on. I wouldn't waste such a nice opportunity for self-reflection. Maybe you need to lose weight or enjoy outings more so the next hot girl sticks..]

<comment><USER7> ...or give her more coke?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> How do you get funding without a product? I see this all the time with MBA students fresh out of school. It's pretty annoying. Also, If this doesn't have the makings of someone who saw "The Social Network" and moved to Palo Alto I don't know what does. You ran at the first sign of Failure with a capital F. That doesn't bode well.

Josh, shit is going to happen. Learn to roll with the punches. PA is a startup haven because it's boring, there's nothing to do there but focus on building things. That's to bad things went down the way they did, that's unfortunate. Startups are a dedication game, in my mind at least. You should read this as encouragement next time you encounter difficultly.

<comment><AUTHOR> We had multiple products and were pivoting to a new product. I don't have an MBA and got initial seed money because of a product I coded myself, and then additional funds based on the success we had with that initial seed funding.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> This is what happens when you're a non-technical founder - you become desperately dependent on others, and when they fall through, you can't do any meaningful work (Josh describes what sounds like just reading some blogs and 'thinking' while Ted leaves him on the hook). Sometimes it works, of course, when the CTO you depend on actually is an awesome coder/architect, but you've essentially just increased your startups possibilities for failure with the same amount of upside as if you were just a technical founder in the first place.

I've noticed this dependency of non-technical founders on a "ninja rockstar CTO" is much more acceptable in the NYC startup community than the Valley.

<comment><AUTHOR> 100% agree Nate - not a good position to be in.

<comment><USER6> and so maybe a good alternate strategy is to prove your business/sales/accounting worth to a technical founder/team that's working on a startup and join them.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> This type of stuff happens all the time. It is the result of completely depending on a technical cofounder. Never, ever do that.

This happened to me with one of my products. I am a hacker but the level of expertise the product needed was beyond what I had to offer.

After a certain point in the development process, I was completely dependent on my partner. He never delivered anything on time and finally just stopped working on it when a paying client came around (although I offered to pay him many times).

Now, when I pursue something new, I make sure I can build it myself even if I do find someone I want to work with.

<comment><AUTHOR> Totally with you Matthew. That was one of my main concerns going into the project -- that we were getting in a little over our head with the tech. We were building on top of another API which was supposed to be relatively plug and play, but turns out we spent almost all of our time (about 6 months) working with them to fix it...that's when I realized that we needed a superstar...lesson learned == exactly what you said, though, thanks for the comment!

<comment><USER10> Josh - the part that resonated with me the most is your developer keeping you waiting and pushing back deadlines with poor excuses. Like you said, these are big red flags.

You mentioned getting sidetracked by learning rails instead of meeting more people, but I disagree with you on that. You should have kept at it learning rails! Developers want to work with other developers, so just by showing you have the drive to learn coding AND have the business skills needed for a startup proves a lot about your personality to potential tech cofounders.

Edit: you should have stayed in the valley. You'd be surprised how quickly you would be right back in the saddle of pushing your startup. I moved here 3 months ago and it was the best decision of my life, I just wish I made the decision sooner. Come on back when you're ready.

<comment><AUTHOR> True true, I wouldn't say sidetracked, my rails is decent enough, I was just in a very confused state. I think you make a perfectly valid point about Palo Alto - Davis/my support network is here for the current venture, but I wouldn't be opposed to heading back out there. Congrats on heading out there and making the jump :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> To the author;

If you're having trouble finding specifically "bi-directional video" guys you may want to expand your search to VoIP devs. Many of the challenges are the same, and the protocols. It is also likely that they will have more experience. A lot of large telcos have dropped big money on VoIP over the last decade. So there's a larger pool of talent available to draw from.

Also, consider the tone of your post, and your attitude in general. Devs have "Red Flags" we look for as well. You give off several. Consider that many people on this board have the skills your looking for, and/or know someone who does. Pay attention to what you are telling us.

<comment><USER12> What are the author's red flags?

<comment><USER11> "don't let go of key team members for replacements until the replacement starts"

Not an inspiring message to future key team members.

"We begun parting ways with our developers, started to wind down most of our NYC operations"

So the next smart dev is in Bangalore, guess that means he'll shut it all down again right?

"The highs and lows continued. I realized we shouldn't support a full production operation until our product was completely done, tested, etc."

Better to think about what you absolutely require compared to the resources you have to 'fully complete' them.

"That Friday, I let Ted know that we need to trim down the team further..."

Then Ted quit the following day with a nice email detailing how _things had changed in the last 36 hours_ and the ways he'd like to help him _recruit a few engineers_ read between the lines.

"the single most unprofessional thing I have ever heard of"

Sending a nice resignation letter is the worst they have ever heard of?

Frankly 90% of this post is detailing poor business and hiring decisions. Then blaming Ted for poor behavior rather than accept responsibility. The author likes to bite off hard technical challenges then complain he can't find someone talented enough to chew it. How is it that he even knows what he _can accomplish_ before he's found his co-founder?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I see three contributing factors here.

\- Startup founders almost by definition have unreasonable ambition – a level of interest, motivation and excitement that exceeds their actual capacity.

\- The best people to work with on a project are very dedicated to their commitments and are placed in positions where their dedication is a priority.

\- People naturally place a higher priority on commitments that are existing, concrete, regular, place-oriented and are reinforced by the most social pressure from people they know well and interact with most frequently. (1)

So, you get this.

I've totally seen this before, not only having to be the one to say "no" (many, many times) and "I guess I can try working on it for an hour a day" (never enough) but even "wow, sorry, let me try to help" (when a friend's technical co-founder was swamped for months at their day job - again, it's hard to replace an expert or a full-time commitment).

I really think that this was a good person to get with, they honestly wanted to do this, and they thought they could swing it if they made the commitment. But again, that's their ambition talking. Their dedication was stuck at their existing job. I can't imagine the stress this caused both of you and I hope you both move on wiser and more motivated from this.

1\. This is why every company wants people on-site, of course.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for your insight zach -- completely agree with your assessments on entrepreneurs and the importance of being together on-site

<comment><USER13> Thanks for bringing this topic up. This is a real and serious issue that isn't talked about much. But I should mention one more thing in greater detail, because it's crazy important.

If there's one warning I would give to every potential technical co-founder and those who work with them, it's this.

It's the very same motivation that drives the dedication of many developers — not to disappoint people depending on them — that often leads to a cycle of despair.

Since developers are enthusiastic and don't want to disappoint people they've already made commitments to, they often choose to accept an easier form of cognitive dissonance over another. That is, they prefer to believe that they will make crazy things happen instead of accepting that they made a commitment they can't deliver on (even for perfectly understandable reasons).

So they offer an overly-optimistic outlook or overcommit themselves as a result. They're not being knowingly dishonest as much as believing in something unrealistic. This pathology often starts with procrastination in school and can manifest itself like an addiction: it builds and builds until the individual either hits bottom (the stress is finally too much) or there's an intervention (they are confronted with a reality check or given an out).

Be extremely careful about this because it is the epidemic of software (where estimation is difficult enough if you're completely rational, possibilities are great and heroic feats are legendary). Always be on guard and try to prevent this cycle from happening, because if it takes over an organization, things will begin turning in a Yeatsian gyre.

<comment><USER14> "things will begin turning in a Yeatsian gyre."

Nice!

Thanks, that was a great post--so very (unfortunately) familiar and true.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I have to admit that I don't understand this whole "find a technical co- founder" thing. This isn't like just hiring an employee, you have to be full partners and both "all in" on the project. If you don't already have a relationship before you start, you need to build one before you take the leap. And I particularly don't get how "non-technical" co-founders think they can run the show, when they don't have the expertise to do it themselves.

</comment><comment><USER13> \- Startup founders almost by definition have unreasonable ambition -- a level of interest that exceeds their actual capacity.

\- The best people to work with on a project are very dedicated to their commitments and are placed in positions where their dedication is a priority.

\- People unfailingly place a higher priority on commitments that are existing, concrete, regular, place-oriented and are reinforced by the most social pressure from people they know well and interact with the most. (1)

So this is just what happens, I think.

I've totally seen this before, both been the person that had to say "no" (many, many times), "I guess I can try helping you out for an hour a day" (never enough) and "I guess I can help" (when a friend's technical co-founder was swamped for months at their day job - again, it's hard to replace a full- time commitment).

I really think that this was a good person to get with, they honestly wanted to do this, and they thought they could swing it if they made the commitment. But again, that's their ambition talking. Their dedication was stuck at their existing job. I can't imagine the stress this caused both of you and I hope you both move on wiser and more motivated from this.

1\. This is why seemingly every company wants people to work on-site.

<comment><USER13> Yikes, this was the original version of my post above (I love to re-edit) and now it's too late to delete it. HN was having some problems when I was posting it, which must be why it's not on my threads page. If an editor can delete it, that'd be appreciated.

But so that this comment isn't content-free, let me tell you where I first saw a project in the "cycle of despair" I mentioned in a reply above. It's Daikatana. I worked on the legendarily-late PC game in late 1999 as a contract programmer.

It was basically this kind of syndrome, trickling down through the development team. John Romero was and has always been extremely ambitious and enthusiastic. He promised way more than the team he could round up was able to deliver. And that's understandable simply because he had a standard of technological feasibility that was based on John Carmack. That'll skew anybody's perspective.

Okay, it was also ludicrous to base the game in four entirely distinct environments.

But I think the basic problem was this cycle of overambition leading to overpromising leading to overcommitment leading to overstressed developers.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> >I let Ted's former CEOs [the one who hesitated on 'dishonesty' word association] know what happened

I don't think this was a good idea. As you mentioned the warnings and red flags were all there but you didn't heed them. It's pretty clear that your awe of this guy was clouding your sense of judgement:

"... disappointed because of how much of an impact Ted would have had in taking us to the next level."

<comment><AUTHOR> I assumed it was just sort of an awkward parting of ways. I think you are spot on though in your assessment

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> Honestly, it seems rather childish to have published something designed to bash another, with little more than a nod in the direction of your own responsibility for the situation.

Perhaps in the future you should consider projects that you can work on yourself without being too dependent on others.

<comment><USER18> "Perhaps in the future you should consider projects that you can work on yourself without being too dependent on others."

How can you build a real company without being too dependent on others?

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> I wouldn't focus so exclusively on someone who specializes in bi-directional video. Given the somewhat desperate nature of your situation, that seems too narrow. Just try to find a kick-ass hacker and assume that he can quickly learn the finer points of your niche.

<comment><AUTHOR> I think that applies in most cases, and it may in this, but as per some of the other comments, significant video streaming experience (if not bi-directional) is sort of a prerequisite for being able to do what we are doing.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> That sucks, I have known people like "Ted" and have learned that any bit of flakiness early on (when you should be trying to impress each other) is a bad sign. 1.5 months is not a long time, though, keep at it!

<comment><USER21> "While waiting for Ted, there wasn't much real work that I could do and my morale declined… my mind started to wander"

If the founder wasn't working on the product, why should anyone want to work with him?

<comment><AUTHOR> There wasn't much real work I could do on the product in the state that we were in, because we were thinking about completely re-architecting it when he came on. Also, I agree with what you are alluding to -- if you aren't touching the product, then you probably aren't that much value-add. Personally, though I've demonstrated the ability to be value-add and was working on some key deals...we just never had the product to close them.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Curious: Why move back? You sounded as though you were enjoying the West far more -- getting outdoors more, meeting lots of people, etc.

As much as you were like a fish out of water it sounded like a period of solid growth for you. I'd have stuck it out further :)

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah I think it would have been nice to stay out there, but my last team member was in NYC, as well as a nice support network (investors, free rent [living at home], friends). I might go back out there at some point :)

<comment><USER22> Challenge breeds reward. I often wonder whether I'd have a company with ~2,000 clients if I had stayed at home. The most likely answer is no.

Eating ramen amongst cardboard box furniture pushed me like nothing else could.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Why would you move back to NYC from the bay area? Having just made the move from SF to NYC myself (for personal reasons, although it's been working out professionally so far as well), I feel like the bay is really the place to be for the non-technical cofounder looking for their bad-ass CTO. NYC is absolutely flooded with non-technical cofounders like the OP - it's really a buyer's market in that sense. For me, as a technical cofounder, I'm definitely in the minority here and I can feel the desperation in the voices of all these non-technical people with their "great ideas, just need a CTO". I want to tell them all to move to the bay because there aren't enough of me to go around in NYC.

</comment><comment><USER12> Something similar had happened to me. I met a guy on the east coast, skyped him, and ended up flying out there later in the week. Meeting went great, he was excited and ready to roll. I left, communication was good as first, we incorporated and had a conference call from my lawyers office. It got worse quick, he wouldn't answer phone calls text or emails for sometimes days at a time. Tons of excuses. Said he would work on stuff that never got done. I don't think he actually produced any code in the 2-3 months he spent stringing me along.

It was one of the most frustrating times of my life. It felt like someone was holding my actual baby hostage and because he lived so far away, I couldn't go bang on his door until he answered.

</comment><comment><USER24> You know what I like about this guy ... his attitude when things go wrong.

No wallowing in self pity, just quick and firm decisions about what to do next ... very awesome read and a great lesson to learn.

<comment><USER18> I agree with him not wallowing in self pity but it seems that his decision to move back to NY was hasty.

I'm not saying he should have stayed in PA but should have at least spent more time exploring his options here in the Valley.

I know so many developers here that are looking for good product/business people to partner with.

There are a lot of product/business people here but most of them have just an idea and looking for somebody to execute them without much to offer anything in return..

I felt that Josh is one of the exceptions and would have found a good technical co-founder here.

<comment><USER25> well, at least from the post he sounded like he didn't really want to leave nyc in the first place, and the only reason he moved to palo alto was because ted was there.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> Could somebody please explain this recent trend of "make your blog posts as skinny as possible"? Does this have something to do with iPhones? Is this the web-design equivalent of bumping the font size on a paper to make it look longer than it actually is?

Is there a reason people do this? It's incredibly annoying.

<comment><USER27> Some usability studies have claimed that narrow columns are easier to read.

Personally I kind of like it, although it makes me feel sad for my wide-screen monitors.

<comment><AUTHOR> Saal is right -- narrow columns are easier to read because you don't have to move your eyes as much. Really wide columns make you move your head. It's a bit weird, but apparently it's what the cool kids are doing...so I did it too lol

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> There are a million way to fail with a business venture. But this has to be one of the silliest ways I have ever read.

</comment><comment><USER29> I love the article. Thanks for sharing. I have been there before and it sucks.

I think the biggest take-away for me was this line: "early on, it's about commitment, honesty, and trust."

And that is why I decided to embark on an startup adventure with my best friends.

</comment><comment><USER30> Josh, you might want to look at the Tokbox API to get the MVP out: <http://www.tokbox.com/opentok/api>

</comment><comment><USER31> another princeton guy who wants to be successful. stay at goldman sachs

</comment><comment><USER19> Why don't you just learn to code?

<comment><USER32> Solid bi-directional video streaming isn't the kind of thing you can just "pick up" by reading a book or taking a class.

<comment><USER33> Why not? Video chat is probably a pretty standard multimedia networking class project?

Or does bi-directional video streaming mean something different that what I assume?

<comment><USER32> Here's one of many things you won't learn in that class: NAT traversal [http://www.h-online.com/security/features/How-Skype-Co- get-r...](http://www.h-online.com/security/features/How-Skype-Co-get-round- firewalls-747197.html) Not to mention tuning compression in real time for network properties, echo cancellation, audio/video synchronization, volume leveling, helping users find each other, and privacy settings. I've never done a streaming project and those are just the problems I can think of off the top of my head - I'm sure there are more interesting problems as well.

<comment><USER33> All valid parts of the general problem, but I think most multimedia networking courses talk compression, QoS, jitter, adaptive protocols, etc . . .

While in no way attempting to say that these issues don't exist or are trivial, what I'm driving at here is that bi-directional video didn't spring fully formed out of the ether yesterday. I saw these issues as part of a multimedia networking course 10+ years ago.

Of course, there is also a ton of research still going on in this area, so it's not like the canonical answer has been found at this point either . . .

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> I echo the sentiments of those that say you shouldn't have gone to a space that was way above your technical competence if you don't have an existing relationship with a tech person. I know that limits your options but there are still ideas that are more appropriate for someone like you. Ideas like Groupon which rely more on commerce know-how rather than technical competence. Or a site like BusinessInsider, which can easily be done using Wordpress or open source solutions

<comment><AUTHOR> We had a few tech people and were building on a platform we thought was stable...it wasn't and that's what motivated me to try and find an A+ player. That's definitely a lesson learned for the future though, so agreed

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> stuy hs holler

<comment><AUTHOR> yupyup!

<comment><USER36> Hey, maybe you can find a technical co-founder from Stuy. You could probably get in touch with Zamansky and see how that works. Lot of good talent there, as you should know.

<comment><AUTHOR> Good call, Z is the man

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> Who on earth is voting this up?

</comment><comment><USER38> When did it become cool to post one's own blog article? Seems like a slippery slope to spam hell.

<comment><USER39> Feb. 19, 2007

Original content is a big part of what makes this site so great, having someone submit their story then be available to comment on the ensuing discussion dramatically raises the bar for quality of conversation. Yes sometimes this crosses the line into spam, but if you feel that an article is all spam then flag it, don't up vote it, and the community will decide.</comment></comment>


St. Louis mayor apologizes after airing names of demonstrators on Facebook Live - <AUTHOR> https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/504837-st-louis-mayor-apologizes-after-airing-names-of-demonstrators-calling <comment><AUTHOR> Facebook should ban her for this.</comment>


How to drive in India (2015) - <AUTHOR> http://theforeignchallenge.com/how_to_drive_in_india/ <comment><USER2> I visited India for the first time last year, in early March. Spent 2 weeks traveling by train through the north of India, and then planned on settling in Rishikesh for 1 month or so.

Rented a scooter and began to experience India roads directly (i.e. not as a passenger in a taxi/tuk tuk). Was chaotic, but certainly doable if you paid attention; that is, until a giant black bull cow came charging through oncoming traffic directly at me.

I steered sharply to my right to avoid getting killed, which was effective in terms of saving my life, but not so effective in terms of preserving my ability to walk. Lying in the sweltering hot afternoon sun with a complete fracture of the hip, a few kind locals dragged me to the side of the road, where I lost consciousness, leaving this body/mind for some eternal realm that I cannot describe.

Eventually I came back to this world and an ambulance arrived, whereupon I was refused surgery at the local hospitals (3 in total) and summarily shipped down to Delhi on an 8-hour hell ride, with the young drivers smoking hash and pumping the loudest Indian hip hop to provide some ambiance.

Really, it was the stuff of movies, but it was real life, and somehow I came through it all -- am more or less back to normal, walking, just with a bunch of metal in my hip.

In hindsight the entire experience was like India: extreme, full on, and holding nothing back -- hang on, it's going to be a wild ride :)

<comment><USER3> >whereupon I was refused surgery at the local hospitals (3 in total)

did they say why?

<comment><USER4> This happens quite frequently because hospitals tend to fear repercussions.

First, they fear the overzealous police who might ask for bribes because they admitted an accident victim.

Second, they fear mob violence. If even a small thing goes wrong people tend to go on a rampage - breaking stuff and harassing people.

Third, lack of awareness and general apathy of law. Most cases in India tend to run for years altogether. So, while there is a legal framework for such cases many hospitals are not aware of it or they just want to avoid making court trips for years.

<comment><USER5> > police who might ask for bribes because they admitted an accident victim

I get that police look for any excuse to pick up bribes, but what's the reason for hassle over accident victims?

<comment><USER4> Once an accident victim is taken to the hospital a legal case has to be made. It is called medico legal case. And the hospital needs to inform the nearest police station. This to ensure that no accident gets brushed under the rug. Police then has to do an investigation into the matter and find out the exact details.

if the hospital doesn't draw up a mlc document then they can be sued for malpractice. But if they do and these things go to court they have to make multiple appearances to provide details of the case.

This fact is used by the police to pick up bribes.

The interesting thing is that even hospitals are not above trying to extort people. MLC filings are supposed to be free but hospitals like Apollo etc charge extra 2-5k to admit a MLC case.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Couple of things which needs to be added:

Never get into an accident in India. First, if you driving a car mob will surround and harass you. Second, in case you get away from the mob, police will come and harass you. And things get worse if they perceive you as an outsider.

Here's an anecdote which happened with a friend:

While taking one of these mentioned u-turns and ensuring that he was honking constantly, a bike coming from the wrong side hit his car. A mob quickly formed and people started abusing him for being a reckless car driver. He makes it to the accident site with difficulty. There were two people riding the bike. Both had bruises. But the pillion rider was not wearing a helmet, something which is against the law in Bangalore.

He took both guys to the hospital. After X-rays and brain CT scan (for the pillion rider) it turns out the rider was fine with some minor bruising and gets first aid. But the pillion rider had a fracture. So, the bike rider's family started to threaten my friend. When he pointed out their mistakes - coming from wrong side and not wearing a helmet, they change their tactic and demand money instead.

Now, in India most of the time accident cases are settled on-spot with cash. Even the authorities, police etc, also force people to settle by paying cash to avoid work (and they take money from both parties too).

But the amount demanded by family is too high. "You are an IT guy" they tell my friend which is an euphemism for ultra-rich in Bangalore. My friend refuses to pay any money and asks for police to be called for due process.

Then these guys started shoving and verbally assaulting him. And because of the language barrier it is difficult for him to ask anyone nearby for help, not that anyone wanted to help.

So, he tells them to allow him to go home and get money. He went back and hired a lawyer to save himself. But, two weeks since, he still gets threatening calls. Police is not interested in the case and tells him to settle "amicably".

<comment><USER6> And that is why when I went there for business, my company insisted on hiring a driver for the whole month. He was a phone call away and was driving me all over the place, anywhere I wanted.

(that's also why most politician or people in high places get a driver)

<comment><USER7> Yea I had a driver when I was in Chennai, it was enjoyable being in an air conditioned Toyota Landcruiser. Was totally worth the extra £10 a day for the company expenses :D

<comment><USER8> Yeah India is a country where there's so many people that sometimes it's shocking to see when they don't value human life and start squeezing out everything they can.

Definitely don't drive in India, get a driver.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I visited India in 2017 and while I didn't get to drive, I spent a lot of time in cars/tuk-tuks/busses and got a keen sense of the driving conditions.

I actually quite liked them! (I know, this sounds crazy).

It's absolute and utter chaos, but the thing is -- people pay attention. Drivers are not dazed off listening to a podcast or fixing their makeup or texting. They're keenly aware of the space around their vehicle and they react quickly to (the constantly changing) road conditions -- it's a matter of Darwinian survival.

I actually found driving back in the US more frustrating once I returned. There's just so much ... indignance. If a car needs to cut across 2 lanes (which happens!) - other drivers in the US flip out: they lean on the horn, they shake their fists, they rage. "How dare that driver do something I didn't expect!"

I think we'd all be better served if we were forced to be more active and aware while behind the wheel.

<comment><USER10> > It's absolute and utter chaos, but the thing is -- people pay attention. > Drivers are not dazed off listening to a podcast or fixing their makeup or > texting.

They might pay more attention on average, but I've seen _plenty_ of distracted drivers plowing through traffic in India. I've also had "drivers" where I discovered it was only their second or third time ever driving a car and here they were driving me through the heart of Mumbai. There's plenty of driver negligence on Indian roads.

> If a car needs to cut across 2 lanes (which happens!) - other drivers in the > US flip out: they lean on the horn, they shake their fists, they rage. "How > dare that driver do something I didn't expect!"

It doesn't matter where you are, abruptly and unexpectedly cutting across two lanes of busy traffic is dangerous. It doesn't matter if it's the norm in India -- if it increases the likelihood of an accident, then it's dangerous. Don't forget that India has 10x the number of traffic fatalities per vehicle count as the United States and 20x the number as the Netherlands, Germany, etc.

IMHO, not accepting reckless driving behavior and "flipping out" to let them know it's not OK is a good thing in moderation.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I think in a lot of the situations, there's a simple rule that Indian drivers follow, which is like motor boats official rules: the biggest vehicle has priority.

So when it comes to u-turns, cars won't do a u-turn if there's a van or bus coming from the other side, but a bus will have no problem starting a u-turn if there's only a flow of cars and motorcycles coming.

Motorcycles are just expected to flow around, make their u-turn small and fast.

Same thing when it comes to overtaking on small roads, or when there's those traffic police barricades at the entry/exit of towns, which reduces the road size to only one way. At those barricades, people will rarely have to come to a complete stop: they just look at how big the vehicle in front of them is, and if it's bigger they'll slow down to give it priority.

For overtaking, in Western countries we'd just consider whether there's enough space/time to safely overtake (unless you're a driver from the mountain regions), but in India they also consider who would win if there was a frontal crash, and the would-be loser will slow down if needed to make sure the bigger vehicle on the other side can finish overtaking.

The equivalent of the sailing boat in term of priority are the cows on the road: they get priority over any motor vehicle

<comment><USER12> >I think in a lot of the situations, there's a simple rule that Indian drivers follow, which is like motor boats official rules: the biggest vehicle has priority.

This is how it works everywhere in the world. In any given ship yard small fork lifts yield to service trucks which yield to semis which yield to large fork lifts which yield to freight trains yield to ships. It generally works quite well unless you ask pedestrians and cyclists in wealthier urban areas in the west (and I say this as someone who rides trains and walks for my commute).

<comment><USER13> Part of the issue with pedestrians, in the US, is they have priority over cars/buses/etc. I don't believe this is true in many other parts of the world. As the smallest, easiest to stop/start, and most likely to be injured, they probably should yield to other users.

<comment><USER14> It actually depends on the locality; stepping off the curb in Vegas or NYC is your ass on the line.

<comment><USER13> Legally, those cars should be yielding (to pedestrians in a cross-walk).[1] But, as you mentioned, it varies by state, and the laws are rife with "yield here, but not there, and only on Tuesdays after a full moon." Would probably be easier to just say "humans are fragile, cross only when it's clear."

1 - [http://www.ncsl.org/research/transportation/pedestrian- cross...](http://www.ncsl.org/research/transportation/pedestrian- crossing-50-state-summary.aspx)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I can only assume that the people who predict that self-driving cars are just a few short years away from universal adoption have never visited India!

<comment><USER16> India already has self driving cars. Hire a car and it comes with a driver, picking you up from wherever you are. You'll get dropped off where you need to be and the car will find somewhere to park itself. When you want to go somewhere else, use your phone and the car will come pick you up, or if where you are is inconvenient for a pickup for whatever reason, you can find somewhere suitable, describe where you are, and the car will go there. No need for a smartphone app - a normal phone will do.

AFIACT, the only practical difference between this story and self-driving cars is that it involves human labor. However that's cheap in India compared to the West.

The masses however can't afford cars, let alone self-driving cars.

<comment><USER17> USA also has chauffers and Uber drivers. So self driving cars are real?

Your argument is as stupid as it comes. Not everyone is upper class and can hire a driver.

<comment><USER18> Are drivers in India limited to just the upper class? Whenever I visit India it feels like anyone who's not lower class can afford to hire a driver.

<comment><USER19> I'm from a middle class family in Delhi, and we never had (or could have) afforded a driver full time. Maybe now, my father can, but it is still expensive and not worth it. Most middle class families don't have a driver IMO. Much more common with upper middle class. However, we did hire driver for couple of days in rural areas every now and then.

<comment><USER18> Do you guys hire other kinds of servants for things like cooking/cleaning/laundry?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> A couple more from around the world (esp. Paraguay): 1\. To drop a passenger off where there is no street parking, just turn on your hazard lights and stop in the middle of the road. 2\. In the seconds before a red light turns green, the cars behind you will honk to get you moving. 3\. Be prepared for squeegee men at traffic lights who clean your windscreen for coins even if you say no. 4\. Most city parking spots are controlled by guys who "take care" of your car while you're away for notes (really your car would be better off without them, they sometimes scratch your car if you don't pay). 5\. Asphalt streets have preference over cobble stone. 6\. Speed bumps come in all shapes and sizes (and are not always marked). 7\. Drove through a pothole? Hey, you should've been looking where you're going. 8\. Pedestrian crossings (zebra crossings) have no real significance.

<comment><USER21> >3\. Be prepared for squeegee men at traffic lights who clean your windscreen for coins even if you say no. 4. Most city parking spots are controlled by guys who "take care" of your car while you're away

This so much in South Africa.

<comment><USER22> And New York. And Chicago. And Houston (the squeegee guys). At least in the 90's and early 2000's.

Thanks to Lyft and Uber, I rarely drive when I'm in cities anymore, so I don't know if it's still a thing in the U.S.

<comment><USER23> It's not - one of the first things Giuliani did in NYC was get rid of the squeegee men, and other cities followed suit.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Coming from an East European country I thought I've seen it all traveling through Europe where even Italy didn't bother me. Where I come from, road traffic is a fight. With hate and madness.

Then I went to Egypt. I've been picked up by a local friend on the Airport at night and I was shocked that once we came upon one of those north/south highways, the first thing he did was to turn off the lights! From then on he used them only to blink at the traffic coming towards us. Which made the whole situation even worse as it was pitch black outside in the desert. But everybody seems to be very chilled about it This day I learned: there is real madness on the roads out there but I'd be happy to witness (and survive it) all. Especially in India and certain other Asian countries where "driving" seems to be a different way of flowing with the rest but also somehow similar to a German Autobahn where you can flow with 200kmh and every small mistake may be the last one you witness.

<comment><USER25> I would never, ever drive in India. I have driven in Cambodia and Laos and there traffic was chaotic but pretty slow and you could get used to it. India is on a whole different level. Chaotic, fast and unpredictable. I wonder what the accident statistics are. When I was there I saw surprisingly few accidents.

<comment><USER26> I don't know the numbers, but anecdotally from the people I know, everyone seems to know multiple people who have died in traffic accidents. Plus you get the odd bus falling off a cliff every few months or so...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> > Expect potholes and unmarked speed breakers almost everywhere! A nice > flawless looking asphalt road can suddenly surprise you with deep potholes , > just like someone has thrown a hand grenades on a road. The more rural you > go the more extreme it can get. You can even find yourself driving inside a > pothole which has it's own potholes in it.

Haha, so true. I remember coming to skidding halt in taxi, in a rural area, at 2am. And directly out of the passenger door, was a pot hole. When I say pot hole, the entire middle of intersection had been torn up. And at the bottom of the pot hole were three men fixing a pipe, by the light of a fire.

Of course there were no barriers, signs, tape, nothing to show work was going on.

<comment><USER28> > Expect potholes and unmarked speed breakers almost everywhere

The worst part is people can build speed breakers at their will with their own spec. I know a person died because an illegal speed breaker was built with much more than standard height and no marking. The condition is bad, the accident rates are much higher and not all accidents are reported.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> A friend of mine from Mumbai once turned their car off in the middle of the road, got out, and left out of sheer frustration.

Apparently, nobody seemed to regard this as particularly unusual.

</comment><comment><USER30> > Often when you are pulled over they will try to find a reason to give you a > ticket ,even when there seems to be no breach of the traffic law.

So true. The policemen know for sure that they'll manage to find _something_ that'll enable them to ask for a bribe. Even if one were to insist on paying the fine in case of a real violation, they'll ensure that they don't end up issuing a ticket and grab money _unofficially_ so that they can pocket it.

> Driving at India is similar like driving all the way with brakes applied. > It's slow, unpredictable and tense.

Driving in India is stressful. But walking on the roads is even more so. You may be walking on a one-way road and suddenly a bike travelling in the wrong direction might run into you. What's worse is that the guy is more likely to be abusive than sorry.

</comment><comment><USER31> There's an extremely readable version of this for Chiang Mai here: [http://www.chiangmailocator.com/wiki-traffic-rules-in- thaila...](http://www.chiangmailocator.com/wiki-traffic-rules-in-thailand-and- how-to-avoid-traffic-accidents-p169)

It's as much a window into Thai culture as it is a guide to driving and contains a few 'aha' insights for those who've ever been perplexed by some of the traffic etiquette in Asia.

> _The most important factor that influences all Thai traffic behaviour is > what I call a Thai driver's 'Range of Responsibility'. A Thai driver's Range > of Responsibility is what he (should) pay attention to in Thai-style, > basically it 's all that appears in his eyesight without turning his head._

> _Because of the Range of Responsibility is a Thai driver 's implicit leading > principle, everything else depends on it. "You're in my sight so I adapt to > you" is the practical solution that Thai traffic society has adopted._

> _Hindering traffic flows is common....time isn't as valuable as in Western > societies, there is less of a hurry, there is no concept of opportunity > costs, and you're supposed to adapt and accomodate each other rather than > claiming your rights._

> _Cutting corners is a habit (or skill!) that Thai people have...the focus is > not on doing things the correct way, but on getting your things done the > easier way. Another way to understand this behaviour is to realize that it > is the flow that goes before the rule...expecting others to stick to the > rules doesn 't work, you better watch the situation as it occurs and adapt._

> _When you engage in Thai traffic, be prepared to take on a double work load: > think for yourself but also think for others around you._

> _Sometimes traffic doesn 't flow through and just parks in the middle of the > intersection. The U-turn is Thailand's response to that, it allows traffic > to gently blend in with the current flow, in other words: it is the Thai > alternative to let people interact more harmoniously and it is much more > suitable to Thai culture than open or guarded intersections._

<comment><USER22> _time isn't as valuable as in Western societies, there is less of a hurry,_

This is the opposite of my experience in Bangkok. We were stuck in a taxi in a traffic jam and all the cars were honking, and the taxi driver was fuming.

But then Bangkok may be different than Chiang Mai.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> People bend traffic rules all over the world. At some point of time even the ones commenting has broken a traffic rule or two. With 1.3 billion population and 1/3 sq ft area to that of US, yes space is a commodity in India. I had been to Italy and driving there is chaotic as well.New york is another classic example. People in overpopulated areas develop a sense of competitiveness which evolves and pushes them to the way things are. If people understood the basis of the problem than just pointing at the problem, we can all make a better world together.

<comment><USER33> > New york is another classic example

New York driving experience: 90% of the trouble is caused by Uber drivers (T&LC plated), 9% is caused by yellow cabs. 1% is caused by everyone else. Those 99% are overwhelmingly immigrants importing their subpar driving culture into the US.

Driving through the blizzard earlier this year was a dream primarily because the Ubers were gone.

<comment><USER34> Its survival my friend. Try running your family driving a taxi. May be your opinion changes then?

<comment><USER33> That's no excuse to threaten other people's safety.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> When I was a kid visiting family in Bangalore, a motorcycle hit the rickshaw we were in. The rickshaw driver and motorcyclist stopped right where they were, in a large (4-6 lane?) roundabout, and proceeded to argue with each other for a couple minutes. I still have no idea what they were saying, but the motorcyclist eventually picked up his bike and left in a huff. For his part, the rickshaw driver got back in, kicked a huge dent out of the sheet metal on his rickshaw, and we set off again.

</comment><comment><USER36> Having lived in Nigeria while growing up (and specifically Lagos part of that time), I've always been proud of how remarkably exciting it can be to drive there. My pride swelled considerably when a friend who grew up in India and also lived in Cairo and other places told me after visiting Nigeria that Lagos had the wildest driving he had ever seen! As crazy as some find it to be, just like in many similar places, the drivers seem to find a rhythm to work together quickly, communicate whereabouts by horn frequently, and thus avoid accidents more than one might expect.

*edit: "find it to be"

</comment><comment><USER37> >> _How to drive in India_

So don't drive, hire someone. The worst thing for a stranger is to have an accident in such places, between the family of the "victim" and the police you'll be royally screwed.

<comment><USER38> Even if you're not driving, you may be screwed just because you're a foreigner and you're in the car, but yeah, why would you ever drive in a place like this?

</comment></comment><comment><USER39> Road rage must be rampant? Or is there a (implied socially) hierarchy which prevents this most of the time?

<comment><USER19> Power matters more than money I believe. Considerable number of people are tempered on road (correlates with education background and kind of jobs they do). So if they think they can harass you, they probably will. You may be rich, but if you don't look that physically strong or they feel you probably don't have support of goons or police (which most regular engineer like me wouldn't), be ready to exchange bunch of verbal abuses or potential fist fight.

</comment></comment><comment><USER40> Ok, I learned to drive in Kanpur, infamous for drivers not following anything. Driving around there, you felt alive as you needed to constantly scan the road for potholes, unpredictable vehicles, unannounced speed bumps, running pedestrians, animals and high beam oncoming traffic with no lane separation. Bad Side, driving in other cities has painfully boring and an easy task for me, as you now have lesser variables to worry about.

<comment><USER41> Kanpur fellow here.

People here wouldn't realize that the situation in Kanpur is far worse than one would guess from description. :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> I was recently in India and I noticed something that troubled me. The traffic signals change on opposite ends very quickly without giving the other side some time to adapt.

For e.g, When there is a change from green to red at one end, there must be a time gap in order to make sure all the vehicles have cleared the passage before changing the signal from red to green at the other end. This doesn't seem to be the case. I saw at least three minor accidents happen because of this in a time span of four days while I was in India few weeks ago.

As trivial as it may sound, I think it would help regulate the traffic more if they implement a better traffic signal system which takes this into account.

<comment><USER43> Having sufficient time where all sides are red in order to clear the intersection is very useful for safety when traffic is flowing quickly and when drivers will wait for a green light and check if it's safe to enter an intersection. From my experience as a passenger in vehicles in Bangalore for a week around 2010, traffic was rarely flowing fast enough to make a difference; and I would expect a significant amount of traffic to treat red in all directions as an invitation to enter the intersection; especially motorcycles and autorickshaws.

Quote from the article:

> Do not assume that traffic lights will keep order on junctions. Red light is > just a beautiful color which makes everyday life little more colorful.

</comment></comment><comment><USER44> This really is a great opportunity for an enterprising youngster or a foreigner to start a consulting company to bring rules into the driving system.

The way to approach this is: 1\. Create a company, build a small DB of rules in UK (the closest road cousin to India), Australia and US. Maybe Hongkong to understand dense cities

2\. Get estimates of costs required to stripe lanes, put traffic lights, green road signs

3\. Make a list of 10 rich cities/municipalities. Approach their roadworks dept and propose a plan

4\. Profit

Developing countries these days are willing to throw money at this. They just want someone to do it efficiently and at low cost.

To see how this worked before, look at Jakarta, Indonesia.

<comment><USER45> I am not sure if you are joking. There are road signs, stripe lanes and everything else that you mentioned in India. There are laws for everything. The problem is nobody follows them. What is missing is enforcement of those laws. No startup can do that. It has to come from government.

<comment><USER44> I'm not joking. A major part of reckless driving there is just that no one knows what lanes are meant for. Having more striped lanes, better traffic lights and yes, better enforcement on wheels would help.

But an entire population wouldn't learn what it means to drive in a lane unless there are real lanes. Simple as that.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> The tick is to keep a small rectangular buffer zone around you and just go with the flow. Since no one follows any rules or traffic laws you keep an eye open and always be prepares to adjust based on what others are about to do.

</comment><comment><USER47> The author didn't mention anything about seat belts.

The first time I got in a car when I landed in India, I had to insist that my driver pull out the seat belts. I don't think he even knew what the seat belts were for!

<comment><USER19> I'm mainly lived in Delhi, and haven't been any other big city. Although it is common in smaller towns/cities to not wear seat belts, but in Delhi you definitely do, and there is fairly good chance you will get caught.

</comment></comment><comment><USER48> One of the most dangerous things I ever did was drive a motorcycle in India, with no almost no previous motorcycle driving experience. Exhilarating and very stupid.

</comment><comment><USER49> I don't get it, if there's laws, but no one follows them, isn't that a great opportunity to make a lot of money off of everyone? It may go to the government, it may be pocketed, but it would teach everyone to fucking respect the traffic laws.

</comment><comment><USER50> Avoid driving at night;</comment>


4 Lessons Learned After Winning a Car at Ford's Hackathon - <AUTHOR> http://danielscocco.com/4-lessons-learned-after-winning-a-car-at-fords-hackathon/

<comment><USER2> Man, what a good idea. I participated in my first hackathon a few weeks ago and came in second place much to my and my teammates' surprise and delight. We were using a company's smart home technology. The first place team made an app that tracks utility usage by room so as to divide the bill fairly between roommates at the end of each month. Such good ideas come out of these events.

</comment><comment><USER3> Hey OP, how would you describe the startup culture in Brazil? I've been thinking of spending some time in São Paulo/Brazil working on personal projects. But, have no idea where to go and if there are other sw and/or hw developers hacking away.

<comment><AUTHOR> Brazil is years behind the US in terms of startup culture. There are very few promising startups, even fewer experienced investors, and to top it all the bureaucracy is terrible. Just consider that you would need to wait between 30 to 60 days just to get your business license.

Not coincidentally my goal is to move to the US as soon as possible.

That all being said, there are also some opportunities here. The country is huge (200+ million), so the internal market is big enough to fuel a startup growth. Second, quite often it's possible to merely clone something that is working in the US here. Some people did that with Groupon, for instance, and they made a lot of money.

Feel free to send me an email if you decide to come here. I'll be glad to show you around (contact details on my profile).</comment></comment>


I have ADHD, is Web Development and alike a good career path? - <AUTHOR> Title says it all, I'm looking for personal experiences if possible, what is it like? I'm interested in Product Design as well, anything that's highly creative. <comment><USER2> I read your question as: can I learn to manage my ADHD symptoms effectively enough to be an effective web developer?

Try this experiment: get a minimum of 8 hours of sleep for the next 5 days.

Then take a mindfulness course, there are plenty and Google is your friend. I use Waking Up.

To me I don't hear people talk about mindfulness in relation to ADHD enough. Because as you start to use mindfulness you'll find yourself being aware of when your ADHD symptoms start to really kick in and you'll be able to limit them before they put you on crazy monkey autopilot.

If you aren't on medication, do so.

How to adjust sleep (Don't round up from 7 and 1/2 hours either get eight or nine even. The trick is to take a sleeping pill if you need to for the first few nights as well as some melatonin to reset your circadian rhythm then go to bed really early. you know you had enough sleep when you naturally wake up without an alarm clock so go to bed really early and set your alarm as a backup... Meaning if you want to wake up at 8, go to bed at 11 pm, and you'll probably wake up a little after 7. )

Also make sure it is very dark where you are at, use a sleep mask, and make sure you don't have sleep apnea that's pretty important too.

<comment><USER3> >To me I don't hear people talk about mindfulness in relation to ADHD enough. Because as you start to use mindfulness you'll find yourself being aware of when your ADHD symptoms start to really kick in and you'll be able to limit them before they put you on crazy monkey autopilot.

Cannot agree more, mindfulness has really helped me notice when my symptoms start and that I need to start over on whatever I was doing or just refocus. Using the Waking Up app has really helped me and I cannot recommend it enough!

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Firstly, that's an impossible question to answer. Having ADHD doesn't make you a better or worse developer than someone with schizophrenia, depression, or someone with no diagnosed psychological condition.

I want to be helpful, so I'm interpreting your question as: "Can you be a successful developer if you have ADHD".

The answer is yes. Full stop. You can be a developer (even a very successful developer) and also have an ADHD diagnosis.

I was diagnosed with ADHD in highschool. This was mostly for disruptive reason (I was a complete dickhead) as opposed to academic (I topped the state in math... English.. not so much). I took the Ritalin for about a month when I was 15. It was horrifying. If I didn't dose on Saturday and Sunday, I would have violent outbursts. Luckily, my parents picked up on this early and took me off the pills.

I don't think I have (or ever had) ADHA in spite of my diagnosis. My career has been fine. Focus is something I've trained and it's not a problem.

I work with a senior backed dev with diagnosed and prevalent adult ADHD. He uses some prescribed stimulates from time to time, but he told me this is rare and not something he "needs". He's an S-tier dev.

If you're diagnosed with ADHD, do what's required to keep your mental condition in check. I have pretty bad depression from time-to-time -- that's my issue and I need to figure it out if I want to have a career.

</comment><comment><USER5> Related: Peter Shankman interviews successful people with ADHD from all walks of life... > [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/professor-johan- wiklun...](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/professor-johan-wiklund- researches-links-between-adhd/id1087851721?i=1000447409564)

</comment><comment><USER6> I have ADHD and have been working as a full stack dev for the last five years. If it's something that you find stimulating, being a programmer can be a good career choice.

At least for me, I find that the combination of logical and creative skills needed as a developer allows me to stay stimulated and focused more than I've been able to at any of the other jobs I've had in the past. And since I interact with computers far more than people, I'm in a fortunate position where I can throw my headphones on and dive into a project 100% without worrying about having to talk too much with others about it or do something else to take my focus elsewhere.

That said, I do take medication so I'm definitely being helped along in the focus department.

The only downside that I have found is not specifically programming related, just the realities of working in an office. I find myself easily distracted by others in the workspace, and since I work at a big company there's always a lot of people moving back and forth going to meetings and stuff like that. I have headphones on 99% of the time and have a desk facing out a window and away from the rest of the office, but as anyone with ADHD knows it's impossible to NOT notice things, especially if it's someone/something moving at the edge of your peripheral vision, so I still find myself becoming distracted from time to time. But as time goes on I get better about being more disciplined and snapping my focus back to the screen when these distractions pop up.

I sometimes cut out early during the week and come in on a weekend to make up the hours. I find that I am much more productive when I am the only one in the office and there's nothing to distract me.

</comment><comment><USER7> It depends. I've been a developer for a long time, as well as suffering from ADD, not so much hyperactive. Doing dev triggers hyperfocus for me, allowing me turn out impressive amounts of work relatively fast, then crash hard and be useless for a while. That's why we have so many meetings, isn't it?

</comment><comment><USER8> I have to keep going..keep a to do list... tell persons I hang with about my ADHD...difficult to keep a job/relationships...my mind is always thinking yet I sleep with not problems...read a lot I mean really a lot...the internet keeps my mind occupied I treat it as vast info/library not into online social apps...Working on my personal memoirs

</comment><comment><USER9> It's mostly a matter of finding the right environment and developing strategies to stay on track.</comment>


CEOs transferring assets into wife's names - <AUTHOR> http://www.nypost.com/seven/02092009/news/nationalnews/dirty_deeding_154268.htm <comment><USER2> This actually kind of bring warmth to my heart, that CEO's trust their wives to hold their assets from them.</comment>


iOS Exploits Used by CIA - <AUTHOR> https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/page_13205587.html <comment><USER2> I wonder if this is the first time Apple is seeing these

<comment><USER3> Since some were used for jailbreak on old versions probably not all of them. The others though..</comment></comment>


Angry Birds Overturn The Book Publishing Cart - <AUTHOR> http://mikecanex.wordpress.com/2012/10/11/angry-birds-overturn-the-book-publishing-cart/

<comment><USER2> I don't get the point you're making with the coffee - a cup of coffee (or even 3 cups) has never transformed my world the way some books have</comment>


What do you think about the launchpage of my startup? - <AUTHOR> http://signup.vousha.re/

<comment><USER2> Get some editing help on the copy - it's got some seriously awkward phrasing. Also, I've read it three times, and I'm still not sure what it is that your company will do aside from "reinventing the world of coupons". If your value proposition is that users won't have to "pay for a coupon to receive a discount", you need some more explaining - I don't know what that means, but I'm pretty sure I haven't done it (and hence wouldn't be motivated to sign up).

Vaguely related: how should I be pronouncing the name? Is it two words ("vou- share"), or a creative spelling of voucher to put the word "share" in there?

<comment><USER3> >I don't know what that means, but I'm pretty sure I haven't done it

I suspect it's a daily deals site that doesn't charge. Groupon that's free for consumers.

I completely agree with your remarks on the copy, it doesn't read like it was written by a native English speaker. Should be an easy fix.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> _"We are reinventing the world of coupons."_

Whoa, that's two of my "literary" pet peeves right there :(

"world of" when it doesn't even apply and should be left out (it's just like "nothing short of", such stuff can be chained forever without adding one iota of meaning to a sentence)

"reinvent" when you actually mean "improve".

Since that's all the info you're really given, this doesn't work for me, at all.

<comment><USER4> To be slightly more constructive.. though I'm not sure what _exactly_ you are planning to do, making coupons more useful, or less of a pain to deal with, is a good thing, right?

It's just that overselling something with too grand language can really backfire, it does on me in this case; combined with no real hard info it feels like giving your email address for a cat in the bag. All I know about that cat is that it likes marketing and coupons.

Why not just say "here's what we intend to do and how we'll do it, this is how you can stay informed / in touch"?

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Hey,

Tried to e-mail firstname.lastname@example.com but received "Relay access denied (state 13)", please contact me chase[at]sweebr[dot]com for a business opportunity.

</comment><comment><USER6> It doesn't work without JavaScript.

<comment><USER7> Lots of things don't work without JavaScript.

I think it looks great. No scrolling!

<comment><USER8> am i missing something here?

i dont see any reason to make a simple 3 container page javascript dependent.

And even if you make a site that requires js to be functional you at least put a fallback in there.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> and also, what do you think about the launchpage of my startup, which you can easily get there at <http://binceipt.com>

<comment><USER2> Same as above - get a native English-speaker (or if you have one, get a new one with more professional writing experience) to redo your copy.

Also clarify who your product is aimed at. Is this something I as a consumer sign-up for, or something that merchants sign up for and then provide to their customers? Of your eight reasons I should sign up, for of them are essentially the same thing ("you don't have to print anything") measured in different ways.

If it's merchant-focused (which I think it is), show an example of how to integrate with an existing POS system, and that you have a one-button pre-made system to do this. As an SBO, my core competency isn't programming against an API, and it isn't paying for a contractor do it do for me - it's selling stuff. If you want me to add this to my existing sales workflow, it needs to be beyond easy.

Add more detail about what exactly your product does, aside from provide electronic receipts. How do I make these receipts? Can I as a business owner customize them? What kind of reporting do I get? Similarly, add some screenshots/action shots. Right now the only meaningful bit is one screen of an iPhone app (I see nothing that you've customized on the iPad there), which is small, unclear, doesn't follow the Apple UX guidelines, and doesn't have the same look-and-feel of most other iPhone apps I have.

Once you've done all that and convinced me that I'd like to sign up, make it easier to do so. From the main login page, I have to find a link in the Bootstrap header (which has low contrast against its backdrop, then click a tab, and then enter my information.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> From what I can tell, it's not responsive.

</comment><comment><USER11> Who pays for coupons?

</comment><comment><USER12> Your sign-up form shouldn't accept "email@example.com" as a valid address: No valid MX DNS RR.</comment>


Ask HN: How do you get support from Google? - <AUTHOR> My wife lost her phone, doesn't remember Google (Fi customer) password.
Can't use find my phone because no password.
Can't use backup phone because no password.
Can't recover password because no phone.
I realize the first response will probably be something about how it's not Google's fault and my wife should've remembered her password.
But I'm done with that excuse. We pay Google for phone service, it's not a free account.
Also, any recommendations on where to spend $50k month in ads? Looking for somewhere besides Google, Microsoft, or Facebook. <comment><USER2> I personally use Authy for 2FA and have run through theoretical disaster recovery plans if I was to lose my phone/account/email locally, internationally etc.

Generally it starts with getting a new/burner phone then getting a SIM card to be able to at least get the 2FA for SMS / Phone working for accounts you enabled that recovery option; Then working back from there.

I also use a Password Manager in conjunction with Authy and store my recovery keys in a fireproof/waterproof box. Said box has USB keys, spares phones, other currencies and many other things and is considered my first thing I would grab if i had to grab 1 thing from my house.

That being said, not everyone practices this and no one thinks it'll happen to them...

Edit: To answer your question, We don't know your question. Google has hundreds of products that all use a gmail account for validation...

</comment><comment><USER3> I would try the account recovery process: [https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/7682439?hl=en](https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/7682439?hl=en)

</comment><comment><USER4> > Also, any recommendations on where to spend $50k month in ads? Looking for > somewhere besides Google, Microsoft, or Facebook.

What's the product?

</comment><comment><USER5> if you remember your id,Use forgot password and dig dipper through each step. It will ask you multiple question,like -Last time you used -Last password remembered -type of device -etc. no-need to answer exact answer,near-approx answers are accepted. try you may recover account.

</comment><comment><USER6> What exactly is the problem?</comment>


Attention Small Businesses: Why You Should Start Using Containers Early - <AUTHOR> https://blog.containership.io/attention-small-businesses-why-you-should-start-using-containers-early <comment><USER2> Small business should start using containers because you have a skin in this game? No, not really.</comment>


MapReduce for Idiots - <AUTHOR> http://petewarden.typepad.com/searchbrowser/2010/01/mapreduce-for-idiots.html

<comment><USER2> A lot of people talk about having an "epiphany" when they learned functional programming. I never put much stock in that until MapReduce really sunk in. Not that I'm a fanboy -- I still do almost everything in Java or Python -- but it was certainly one of those "aha" moments.

I wish this article was around when I started trying to figure it out. If you do actually get through it (and it's eminently accessible), it makes Spolsky's article on functional paradigm and MapReduce [<http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/08/01.html>] a _lot_ easier to understand. And it's my bet that if you get around to reading both, you'll thank yourself for making yourself do it. Really.

Highly recommended.

<comment><USER3> Note that Python is also a functional language, in the sense that it has almost all elements and features that allow you to do functional programming. [1] So if you do a lot of stuff in Python, chances are good that you're already doing functional programming to some extent, without having noticed.

[1] The most annoying deficiency of Python is the missing implementation of proper local variables in sub functions, which means that Python has no real closures. Recent Python versions try to fix that via the "nonlocal" keyword, but that's not a really intuitive fix, compared to how this issue is solved in other functional languages like Haskell or LISP.

<comment><USER2> I am aware. But I appreciate the gesture!

When I said that I'm not a fanboy, I didn't mean to say that I don't use functional languages, but rather, that I don't use _purely_ functional languages, and certainly purely functional languages exclusively.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Notably, this is one use of Map/Reduce; it's a general processing pattern.

</comment><comment><USER5> But software patents are evil, and Google's mission is to not be evil ... So we'e safe, right? Right?!

<comment><USER6> I guess. It would be a pretty stupid move of Google to sue any other company over this, because they would lose a lot of respect from development community.

<comment><USER7> I'd like to think so, but if a situation presented itself where it was a choice between angering developers and angering shareholders, I wouldn't bet against the shareholders.

<comment><USER8> Eh, maybe for a different company.

Another part that plays into this is that you _have_ to patent something, or someone else will. Google pretty much had to register a patent or face getting pwnt someday.

<comment><USER9> Yep, I think you hit the nail on the head.

You really have to do "defensive patenting" when you are this large or you might face problems when another person patents a key technology your business relies on.

I don't think google would ever pursue this patent against another company, because it is doubtful it will stand up in court. As such it probably would win a court trial if another company patented the tech, but it is much cheaper to just patent it yourself, stick the patent in a drawer, and continue taking over the world.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>