Arq 5.8.5 for Mac Fixes a Bad Bug - <AUTHOR> https://www.arqbackup.com/blog/arq-5-8-5-for-mac-fixes-a-bad-bug/ <comment><USER2> While I agree with others that honesty is best, even if it hurts in the short term - there was a corresponding (perhaps even far worse) bug in the Windows version recently with no corresponding blog post or announcement.

I think it was the 5.7.8 (Windows) release that introduced a bug that caused Arq to believe a budget of 0 should be enforced. This meant if you backed up to AWS (probably others too) it would delete ALL backup records except the most recent one (and then immediately cleanup the now unreferenced objects, so even the reflog feature can't help you)

I had only been using Arq for a few months so I didn't lose anything major, but if I had been keeping years of historical records, I would be furious.

This was fixed in the next release 5.7.13 ("Fixed an issue that could cause Arq to enforce a budget when no budget was configured.") but still - I thought a bigger deal should have been made of this.

<comment><USER3> Windows users are not that fussy. Mac users are very loud so they require special treatment.

<comment><USER4> I dunno, data loss from backup software seems like a pretty big fuckup.

NB: I'm a very happy Arq user; I bought it because Time Machine crapped itself every couple months requiring me to recreate the backup (a pain in it's own right: 400g over wifi) and leading to a severe loss of confidence that backups were actually going to be there if I need them. I tracked it down to Time Machine gets really unhappy if you sleep your laptop while it's in the middle of a backup. However, having to check if Time Machine is running before closing the lid or being willing to run a 1-2% chance of corrupting the backup isn't really a workable state of affairs.

In a couple years, Arq hasn't eaten my backups. It's like Time Machine except written by competent people. This situation sucks but I'm sure Stefan will add enough tests.

On a digression, this is part of my increasing frustration with how shitty Apple sourced mac software is. This tiny company beats the pants off Time Machine, even including the recent screwup.

<comment><USER5> I've noticed the same problems. Apparently it is possible to write a program that will keep the laptop from sleeping if the lid is closed. ([https://www.appducate.com/2012/12/keep-laptop-awake-even- whe...](https://www.appducate.com/2012/12/keep-laptop-awake-even-when-lid- closed/) is one I found, but I haven't tried it.) Given that, I wonder if it is possible to write another program that will check to see if a time machine backup is running, and keep it from sleeping until the backup is completed, after which it will sleep.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Adding to the sentiment of others, I've been a long time Arq user and grateful for Stefan's openness and honesty.

I imagine most or all of us with that sentiment did not suffer any data loss or rather did not need to do a retrieval and discovered data loss during that time. So much easier for us to write it off as a non issue. Where is if it affected us I imagine we'd all be quite a bit more upset.

Though most people use common alternatives such as Time Machine which every few months runs into data issues and far less transparency. Stefan could have quietly updated with a fix, and waited to see if anyone discovered the issue and then only announced the issue if that occurred. But instead he proactive announced it. So bravo. And I'm sure he will instill new procedures to hopefully avoid that in the future, but of course with any software there is always room for error no matter how much testing you do.

</comment><comment><USER7> I'm a long time Arq user. I very much appreciate the honesty. I can't solve a data backup problem if I don't know what that problem is.

Ont this note, I've thought about something at times: If there was one feature that I would like to see is options to verify backups. Beyond the possibility of Arq having a fault, it's also very possible that a backup service has silently failed. Either, the files are corrupted or the service lies that the files exist but you can't actually download them. I would appreciate the ability to have files pulled (either periodic random or marked files) pulled and compared to local files to verify the backup. I would also want to cap the max files/bytes pulled in a month so that I don't burn too much money.

I know it took guts to make the post. You did well.

<comment><USER8> I wonder if the easiest way of doing that wouldn't be to compare checksums? Saves having to re-download portions of a backup set, which could potentially get expensive in terms of bandwidth costs, and has the disadvantage of only confirming whatever files you are looking at.

<comment><USER7> But, that's still trusting the provider. The provider is likely to compute it at upload time and then store in meta data. So, having that meta result returned is no more proof your files exist than listing them.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Thanks for the honesty, I really appreciate this.

And BTW, I am a happy Arq user, I've been using it on multiple machines for the past several years. It is the _ONLY_ backup solution out there that:

* encrypts my data without me having to supply the decryption key to a third party when decrypting,

* decouples backup and encryption from a particular storage provider,

* makes me independent of ebbs and flows of storage providers by supporting pretty much every one out there.

I've learned to value independence over cheapness, so I stick with Arq. Plus, it's been working really well over the years.

<comment><USER10> Duplicati hits everything you're talking about (I have essentially the same criteria for backups).[1] It's cross-platform (Windows, macOS and Linux).

I love using Arq on my MacBook Pro, but since they won't release a Linux client I use Duplicati on Ubuntu. I like it a lot.

__________________________

1\. [https://www.duplicati.com/](https://www.duplicati.com/)

<comment><USER9> Nice! Thanks for posting this — I've been looking for something like Arq for Linux, and this seems to be it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Oof, unfortunate. Can well imagine the sinking feeling that comes with the discovery.

How do people feel about killswitches connected to C&C servers so that if one releases broken software, one can block its use, or force an update? I wouldn't be very upset if it were just a flag you could turn off to prevent killswitch enforcement.

<comment><USER12> Google has a thing like that for Chrome iirc (and its granularity is to the feature level)

<comment><USER13> MSN Messenger had a thing like that, also granular to the feature level. Disclaimer: I was involved with its development 12 years ago or so.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> As an Arq user, the honesty and openness are greatly appreciated. Hopefully, nobody has gotten bitten by this issue when attempting to recover data.

</comment><comment><USER15> I have been an happy Arq user for years. Thanks for being so honest!

This only increases my trust in Arq. Every program will have terrible bugs once in a while, even backup software. This shows that we can trust Haystack software to inform us, rather than sweeping things under the rug.

And as always: make multiple backups to different locations.

</comment><comment><USER16> Ouch. The openness is appreciated, though.

Beyond randomly checking a time in the past and trying to download a file, is there a way I can tell which / how many files are now missing?

</comment><comment><USER17> This could have been worse. I was using Crashplan and tried to add an ignorable directory in the web panel, which had no flags or warning labels or anything around it indicating that it could be destructive. The web server had some kind of error and when I reloaded the page, my settings were wiped out. Several hours later I got an email that all my backups were going to be deleted by 5pm. The email was received at 5:20pm. Customer support basically just shrugged it off, and I was an ex customer by the next day.

Shit happens, but that was particularly egregious. This is why you should have multiple backup methods in place, and if you've never restored one, you don't have a backup.

</comment><comment><USER5> For those that use Arq, but counsel secondary backup tools as well, any recommendations?

I'm on a Mac - I use Dropbox (with permanent version history turned on) for common files, and Time Machine to a Drobo for short-term versioned/incremental backups (short-term because the backup invariably gets corrupted every year or so and I have to start over). (I also currently use Crashplan but am thinking of switching to Arq since Crashplan has very slow upload speeds - slower than my ISPs upload speeds.)

I'm also figuring out a way to remotely have a mirrored boot drive for my Macbook but haven't quite gotten there.

<comment><USER18> In addition to Arq, I run a local time machine and backblaze.

Backblaze runs all the time on _everything_ (some 4TB), and I have Arq running nightly on my most important stuff (photos, documents, music, recordings) to AWS as well as Amazon Cloud Drive.

<comment><USER19> If you happen to have critical virtual machines or disk images, make sure you back them up elsewhere, since Backblaze doesn't back them up. Made it an annoyance for me personally, but it otherwise works rather well for the typical user.

<comment><USER20> Backblaze backs up my virtual machines... You just have to remove those file types from the exclusion list (where they are by default), and raise the max file size to "No Limit". Neither of these are hidden options.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Wow, as a Mac user of arq I've completely lost any trust I had in this app. I guess I'll have to run both arq and something like duplicati...

<comment><USER22> Never trust one backup solution. While I am happy to see people use any backup at all, as a professional and as someone who cares about my own stuff I feel a much more sophisticated approach is needed.

Since 1980, I have learned to keep multiple backups, using multiple independent software, stored in multiple locations, on multiple types of media, overseen by multiple people.

An overview of my personal backup system for my primary system a MacBook Pro:

* Boot able mirror to remote hard drive via Carbon Copy Cloner * Data backup using Arq to home file server with RAID, and Google Cloud (previously to Amazon and Microsoft) * Data backup using Backblaze * Data sync via Resilio to home server * Code stored in Git * Some stuff in DropBox primarily sync with iOS apps * FastMail IMAP email synced to a local backup store * I just stopped use of CrashPlan after 9 years

I have other backups going for the home file server.

And of course, my servers for work have a whole other multilayered backup system.

<comment><USER8> How often do you create the bootable mirror to an external drive?

<comment><USER22> I have it set up to do it once a day. I rotate that between two drives. This part is done by hand, I try to rotate once a week, but more likely every two weeks.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Guess it's a clear case why diversity of backup formats is a good thing.

"If we could, we'd make backup copies of our valuable data on clay tablets" [https://landing.google.com/sre/book/chapters/data- integrity....](https://landing.google.com/sre/book/chapters/data- integrity.html)

</comment><comment><USER24> bad things happen; its all in how you respond. keep up the good work.

</comment><comment><USER25> The blog post doesn't actually say that 5.8.5 repairs old backup records. Does it?

<comment><USER5> I read it as that it will re-upload files that still exist on your live system that aren't (but should have been) in your backups, but will not recover deleted files that should be in backups.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> It's a bit off topic, but I wonder why they add such a visible ® after their name in the navbar.

<comment><USER27> I've worked with clients who were very adamant about the trademark and registered trademark logos overly apparently. Can anyone explain why?

<comment><USER28> [https://www.inc.com/guides/201101/how-to-protect-your- tradem...](https://www.inc.com/guides/201101/how-to-protect-your-trademark- from-infringement.html)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> This is a part of a rather disturbing trend to ship frequent and not-well- teated updates. Another example of this is 1Password.

<comment><USER30> What did 1pw do recently?</comment></comment>


Carbon nanotube computer - <AUTHOR> http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v501/n7468/full/nature12502.html

<comment><USER2> The main discussion seems to be over here: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6447783](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6447783)

There's also a list (yes, by me) of other submissions: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6447900](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6447900)</comment>


Inmarsat shifts satellite from Space-X to Arianespace - <AUTHOR> http://spacenews.com/inmarsat-shifts-satellite-from-spacex-to-arianespace/ <comment><USER2> Not a big surprise -- Falcon Heavy's development has been delayed several times now by Falcon 9 launch problems. Arianespace doesn't have very much room on their manifest after this.</comment>


Think twice before using a phone charging kiosk  - <AUTHOR> http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/psa-think-twice-before-using-a-smartphone-charging-kiosk-20121224/

<comment><USER2>
        [x] Link-bait title
        [x] Unsubstantiated fear mongering
        [x] Absence of any specific technical details
        [x] Secondhand, factually inaccurate reporting
        [x] Primary source over 1 year old, and very much out of date

Who actually upvoted this and why?

</comment><comment><USER3> _If you find yourself in need of a charging station, the team behind this experiment found that most phones don't give up information when the phone is powered off._

Most phones? Can someone provide examples of phones that offer data connectivity when the phone is powered off?

<comment><USER4> Don't iPhones start up on application of power?

<comment><USER5> Only if they are totally dead. If you just power your phone off normally, it will stay turned off until you hold the power button.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Original article at krebsonsecurity.com is over an year old: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2897356>

Re-submitted last week: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4951354>

Guess geek.com picked up this re-submission and churned an article out of it?? ;)

</comment><comment><USER7> Agreed this is an article churn for advertisement.

Recently this attack was back in the news due to NSA referencing it in a mobile device security paper.

BTW if anyone has questions about it, feel free to ask me. I'm the guy (along with friends) who was building these kiosks and deploying them at "hacker" conferences and then gave a presentation on the matter.

<comment><USER2> i have some questions. how do i contact you?

<comment><USER7> Email sent to you. Narf!

<comment><USER2> hm i never got it :( and i tested the address too since i don't use it much! i'd definitely love to chat though. an alternate just in case is jwb [at] tu [dot] nr

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Maybe phones should provide a "charge only" setting that can be toggled on when using non-trusted devices to charge your phone?

<comment><USER7> Many android phones do this, however not all. This is up to the specific ROM you are running.

iOS devices have put in a phenomenal effort to secure against these attacks, including requiring encryption keys before allowing unknown computers to access the device or data.</comment></comment>


I wish I could work on weekends - <AUTHOR>

The dreadful weekend is always so long. I rarely get out of my apartment and when I do it's either to buy groceries or booze.
I feel that although I might be productive as a software developer, I'm not being productive as a late twenty guy.
It's easy to say go out meet people, but it's so difficult to make new friends at this age. Very few places to go to meetup people. The idea of pub sucks and meetups are there but are boring and it's a part-time thing for everyone. Everyone has a life and here I'm with no life it seems. So what should I do.
I have been thinking about may be starting my own project and seeing where it goes.  But I don't know what's the best path.
There might be lots of things related to IP or other things that might come into play if I start working on my own thing during weekends. Could I work part-time and take two jobs ? Why aren't companies open to this idea that a person can work in two places ? <comment><USER2> I started going to the gym to get fit. Turns out there are people there with similar interests. So you end up making friends. They invite you out, or you invite them etc.

Friends and family are important. My point is, its never too late to make friends. Find a hobby which involves other people. You will naturally make friends, and stop drinking and eating by your self.

you'll be happier as a result and stop looking for things to fill your time with. You might even end up laughing and having fun.

<comment><USER3> I sympathize with OP a little when he says "it's hard to meet people." I used to be very much that way. Bartending for a couple of years helped me get over it.

That said, I've been going to the gym for quite a while, and I have not found it to be a social event whatsoever. I've had about two conversations, both brief and about weightlifting, in my dozens of visits.

Doing stuff you like will generally help you make friends, but the gym doesn't seem to work that way, for me at least.

<comment><USER2> as an example, I met one of my good friends there. It started with smiling and nodding, and one day I asked him about an exercise I didn't do and asked why he does it. Asked him to watch my form while I did it.

From there it was just getting his name, and whenever i saw him at the gym he and I made small talk (I made an effort to do this). Asking about how someones day to how their weekend goes a long way (it's very normal for people to do this in general).

I also sympathise with the OP, as I had problems forging relationships. But I just kept at speaking with people, and showed general interest in the things they do and soon enough they start asking about me.

When they start asking things like: got much planned for the weekend etc, it will usually lead to "want to come out with us". I am not sure about your environment at the gym, but we have a very friendly group of people.

It doesn't have to be gym, it could be anything from pottery classes, to painting or in my example the gym. Just have to get out there, and do things with people :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I began typing a response but after some thought, I realize that the answer to your dilemma is complicated by the fact that you may seek 2 positive outcomes rather than 1 for your problem. Here's a potential solution:

 _" Work-Productive" Saturday_

computer/coding related and results in a viable product

\+ full-time involvement by other participating individuals

= hackathon/co-founder meetup for projects (perhaps non-profit ones would circumvent IP/competitive issues?)

 _" Personal-Productive" Sunday_

not drinking/pub related

\+ can result in friendships/relationships

= any activity that you _truly_ enjoy/want to try out that is NOT computer- related and NOT solitary by default (e.g. going to the gym to lift weights, while is a great activity, may not be recommended for this purpose because it's hard to chat people up when they are concentrating on their new max reps. Whereas a team sport that requires communication may be more amenable.)

</comment><comment><USER5> Try to pivot, I started a small business landscaping, not because I felt my coding skills were not going to see me through but because I also felt unproductive on weekends and lacked social interactions, fresh air and exercise. I found from the experience I've learned a great deal about dealing with people, budgeting, forecasting, contract management, negotiating, the list really does go on. Not all of that is immediately beneficial to my 9/5 job but things like dealing with failure, problem solving on the fly, thinking lean about solutions so I can get something for the client in a day, two max! I only have a weekend to produce. It's been great!

</comment><comment><USER3> I love hacking on stuff on the weekends.

Just come up with a project idea and build it. It doesn't have to be that special.

</comment><comment><USER6> I think weekends when you're single are best used looking for a wife. Once you're married the weekends are for you to give your wife a break by playing with the kids so she can relax! If you can squeeze something else in, whether it be a hobby or a second job, more power to you! I don't think you ought to fret too much "what's the best path"... just pick something and do it.

As for your company's opinion, remember the ancient maxim "It's better to ask forgiveness than permission". That was Julius Caesar upon crossing the Rubicon, wasn't it?

<comment><USER7> As someone that's married right now and has no free time, I wouldn't suggest anyone to spend their weekends "looking for a wife". That's insane.

<comment><USER6> Because you don't recommend marriage, or because you think he can find one on weekdays?</comment></comment></comment>


Sell to your Instagram followers using comments - <AUTHOR> https://paytagz.com/

<comment><USER2> >>To post an item for sale all you have to do is add #forsale $<dollar_amount> in the description and your item will go for sale imediately.

>>All your followers have to do is comment #buy on any item you have for sale and the item will be purchased for them.

Interesting implementation, great concept. It seems like a decent amount of consumer education would have to be done to get them on board with #buy. This idea is also subject to all the risk that goes along with complete platform dependence.

ie: if it gets big/popular enough, what's to stop Instagram/Facebook from killing it and implementing their own proprietary version?

<comment><AUTHOR> That is a good question and concern and one that investors as well as other founders have asked.

At this point in time the reward of me making it is a lot higher than the risk of them putting resources towards doing themselves. Also, it would be a complete shift in what they are doing to try to go after this. At least for now.

I could be completely wrong and get shut down later today but I don't think that will happen (knock on wood).

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Really interesting concept. Seems very dependent on instagrams leniency to let it continue existing.

<comment><AUTHOR> Well the upside in best case scenario is huge and the downside in worst case scenario is that I got way better at node.

For me it's worth the risk.</comment></comment>


Say Hello to Transit - <AUTHOR> http://thetransitapp.com/

<comment><USER3> This app has some interesting ideas, but fails at the core task of navigating to a destination when it tries to be too clever about the address.

Say I'm in SW Connecticut, trying to go to our datacenter in NYC, at 111 8th Ave.

For all variations on 111 8th Ave, New York, NY, 111 Eighth Ave, Manhattan, NY (and all combinations thereof), this app suggests bizarre alternatives in Brooklyn, San Francisco, or what look like misspellings from Foursquare like "8th Ave Parkimg Garage" (sic).

Unless one can enter an address and go to it, no other feature or UI element matters.

<comment><USER4> I agree this needs to be improved. The problem is with Apple's geocoder, which seems to be really dumb at finding addresses. We would like to use Google Geocoding Service instead, but they don't allow it if we don't display the results on a Google Map (and starting with iOS 6, the map tiles are now provided by Apple).

<comment><USER3> Apple's geocoder gets "111 8th Ave, Manhattan" and "111 8th Ave, Manhattan, NY" right.

In New York, Apple and others often show streets off of Manhattan island unless you call the island locations Manhattan. That's because for the other addresses, they have to accept users looking for them using New York as the city too.

Navigon, Tom Tom, Garmin, Google Maps, and Apple all exhibit that issue. But doesn't seem to be the issue here. Issue here seems to be results from Foursquare instead of an address lookup, with no valid address ("what I typed") option to select to continue.

<comment><USER4> Thanks for the technical precisions re: address geocoding in NYC.

Right now, tapping the return key will try finding an exact match of what you entered on Foursquare. If it fails, it will fall back to the geocoder and then proceed immediately with the routing request. This will be improved in 1.2.1 as the return key will now be labeled "Search" instead of "Route" and will no longer trigger the direction request.

Indeed the foursquare suggestions make address lookup confusing, as the Foursquare suggestions sometimes make no sense with what the user entered. I thought of maybe leaving them out when the search text starts with a number, but then that would leave out venues that start with numbers as well.

<comment><USER5> I'm genuinely curious as to why you're using Foursquare first and geocoding as a fallback.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> The app looks interesting with a unique UI. It is certainly hitting at the right time for iOS, and considering that the transit directions in the old Google-powered iOS Maps app were never very good, this has the ability to give users an even better experience.

The supported cities seem strange to me, however. In the US, the first two cities you would develop transit directions for would be New York City and Washington, DC, as they are No. 1 and No. 2 in train/subway use in the country and having by far the best transit. After that you would do the second tier of Chicago, Boston and San Francisco. Then you'd look into less transit-friendly cities.

Houston, which is pretty much a giant suburb, is a strange pick to go before more transit dense cities. I do see that the app makers want data in a public GTFS feed. But users won't know what that is. It's up to app and service makers to work with cities, not users. They just want something that works.

I say all of this, because the goal of any app launch should be to maximize user uptake and publicity. Skipping major transit cities like DC and Seattle for launch and instead including Houston, San Diego, etc. seems like a wasted opportunity. Shooting up the iOS most popular charts is the best path to success on iOS and city selection, and thus user availability, would be pretty critical here.

<comment><USER4> All excellent points. You're right we should have put more thoughts into our city roadmap. We basically looked up US city metro populations and went with that (how terrible, I know). With all the traffic and feedback we get now, it has become clearer which cities should have been prioritized (Miami and San Diego for instance were an absurd waste of time and resources). DC is definitely coming this week, followed shortly by Seattle and LA.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> The submission title, 'Best IOS 6 transit app is "The transit app" from creator of SVProgressHUD', is too sensational for a Hacker News title. Check out the guidelines: <http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html>

I really like the screenshots but this app doesn't support Phoenix yet. I guess our local government doesn't provide the necessary public data feed?

<comment><USER8> Couldn't ever be considered the best, it's US only

<comment><USER9> Last I checked, Montreal, Calgary, Quebec City, Toronto, Saskatoon, Winnipeg, Vancouver, Ottawa, and Halifax were not in the US.

It is, however, limited to North America currently.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> As a general tip for app websites: please prominently show on your website the app logo I'm looking for in the app store when I search for "transit" - <USER2> no knowledge of what combination of words in your url make up your actual app name. I searched for "Transit" and had hunt through several transit-y apps before matching up your screenshots (I'm on iOS 5).

The "Available on the App Store" button is nice, but if I'm reading this on my laptop I'm not going to go to your website so I can click the button.

</comment><comment><USER11> "Transit also integrates closely with the new Maps in iOS 6." - I would seriously reconsider telling people that and go with a Google Maps solution. I'm not trying to be rude, this is seriously one of the best and most useful applications ever, but the integration of iOS 6 maps is going to be your downfall. My initial testing of the app showed some serious flaws with Apple's geocoder not correctly picking up on variations of address and location names.

<comment><USER12> Agree that it should be using Google's geocoder. Disagree that it shouldn't be advertised as integrating closely with iOS 6 Maps--this app wants to position itself as a viable replacement for Maps.app's missing transit data.

<comment><USER13> Maps.app allows external apps to integrate with it to provide transit data.

<comment><USER11> But the integrated Maps application is inferior in every way possible compared to Google Maps. I guess though, what's the alternative at the moment?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Firstly congrats on putting the app out there. It's great to see you've actually paid attention to your web presence, which is neglected by so many app developers. With that said, there are a lot of PT routing apps out there and I think you'd be a prime candidate to utilize your web presence to truly demonstrate how the app works by using Kickfolio - <http://kickfolio.com>

</comment><comment><USER15> That's a fascinating pricing model. It makes a great deal of sense, too, since presumably there's work to be done keeping all that data fresh and up to date. But I wonder how many other transit apps we're going to see with a subscription model, when users are so used to ridiculously cheap, one time purchases?

<comment><USER4> Indeed, we're getting ridiculous amounts of bad reviews re: our pricing model. People were used to getting transit direction for free in iOS 5, so there's a lot of angry people out there. Some people suggest we should get VC money and make the app free, but what we (@gcamp and I) really want is to make the best transit app out there and not have to care about an exit strategy or pleasing greedy angels.

<comment><USER16> In my personal opinion, if you're not thinking about an exit strategy, you should be.

In the bigger picture, Apple's top two smartphone competitors build transit directions into their mapping solutions. Apple can't afford to leave transit the exclusive domain of third-party developers indefinitely. To use Joel's phrase you're "picking up nickels in from of a steamroller". You should expect to get Sherlocked eventually.

<comment><USER17> Not everything has to be a startup with some grandiose exit strategy. Making a great product and a solid living off of it is perfectly viable, and quite preferable for many people.

But you're right about being aware of what apple may do in the future. I'm not convinced they'll add public transit (back) into their core mapping app though, as you imply. I think apple has made the decision to optimize for drivers, which tends to be the majority especially outside of huge cities.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Looks interesting, especially the pricing model (which makes sense to me), but are there plans for Android?

</comment><comment><USER19> Great looking app, but some of the directions just don't make sense or are flat out wrong. For example, in NYC it tells me to take the 4 train from 23rd St. - the 4 train actually doesn't stop at 23rd St.

Again, thumbs up but could use some improvements especially on the routing side.

</comment><comment><USER20> Unrelated to the app, the typography on the app intro page badly needs some pixel-fitting.

<http://dcurt.is/pixel-fitting>

<comment><USER4> Not sure what's you're referring to here. Maybe it's your local rendering engine... Screenshot please?

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> Everything about this App looks great except for the pricing model. Why can't I just buy it? I have to pay for a subscription if I want to use all of the features?

<comment><USER4> Servers and app maintenance has recurring fees. Taking public transportation itself is based on a pay-per-use model. Why assume that paying 2.99$ for an app entitles you to free lifetime updates and support? A lot of apps do it, but more and more we hear that it is not a sustainable revenue model. It would be a whole lot different if Apple allowed paid upgrades, but they don't.

<comment><USER22> The only issue I have with this is that, AFAIK, the city is offering you this information for free. I can understand if you were paying a licensing fee to have access to the location data, you'd want to cover that fee. But wrapping up a stream of data someone else produces and curates doesn't justify a recurring fee to me.

<comment><USER4> You'd be surprised at how ugly the data we get provided is. The "curating" is actually much of the work we do. We probably spent as much time developing internal tools that clean and improve that data that on the app itself.

Server costs and continued development also are recurring expenses. Like I said, we might have gone down a different path if Apple allowed paid upgrades, but they don't.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> This app is gorgeous, but I found the UX to be confusing for my common use case of routing a trip (from the IOS6 Maps app).

</comment><comment><USER24> A little off-topic, but: how does Montreal have _19_ different transit agencies!?

<comment><USER4> Yeah, like Jarek said. A bunch of very small agencies in cities close to Montreal, but not far/big enough to give them a "dedicated" city page/bundle...

<comment><USER25> I'm still curious about the inclusion of GRT under Toronto. I realize the region isn't that large but that's not an intuitive classification for locals - unless they go off exploring and check the agencies listed under Toronto, they might think it's not supported.

<comment><USER4> I agree. It's also a problem for Victoria and Kelowna in BC, which are both listed under Vancouver. We need to find a way to better communicate this information in the near future. Maybe something like a search or use the browser's geolocating services to tell you whether your area is supported or not.

<comment><USER25> Wow, I totally didn't realize Victoria and Kelowna were actually supported from reading the Vancouver list. (I live in Vancouver now.) I know the BC Transit thing is a pain in the ass from naming perspective, but yeah, get that reworked when you have the time.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> This is sort of thing people want to own, not subscribe to, IMO. So please, let us know how does the subscription pricing work out.

Also, good job with the simple graphic design of the website, it really works!

<comment><USER27> As someone who has looked into building something like this, a subscription makes a lot of sense. These GTFS feeds are (generally) a huge mess. Cleaning them up into a dataformat you can use is tons of work. And with all the cities changing their routes (or cutting service) every six months, it means continued work and support.

I'd happily pay a subscription for something that works well. But yes, it will be interesting to see how naive consumers react to this.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> A little local focused, but do you have plans to include real time information in Vancouver, like NextBus does?

I'm avoiding upgrading to iOS6 until I know there is a usable transit option.

</comment><comment><USER29> When I am clicking on any thumbnail from the _Supported Cities_ section, a lightbox appears, but I cannot close it.

</comment><comment><USER30> I like the interface but I'm getting bad directions, also its choosing destinations poorly. (Chicago)

</comment><comment><USER31> weird city support, austin before seattle... I guess perhaps the data is of different ease to consume, but I'm pretty sure Seattle is a substantially more transit using city than Austin. (Having lived in Seattle).

Perhaps just canadian myopia? (as a fellow canuk)

<comment><USER4> Haha, yeah probably canadian myopia. I think it's because we had a couple requests for Austin a while ago so we decided to do it. But with all the requests we're getting now, it's much more clear which cities need to be added next (Seattle, Washington DC, L.A., Portland).

<comment><USER32> Austin is hipster central-its where all the young RoR and JS devs go to do startups during SXSW. Don't know what that has to do with transit, and I'm pretty sure Seattle has more transit than Austin. Oh well, that's the problem with crowdsourcing.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> Agreed. I downloaded this and found it to be quite exceptional. Apple should hire this guy.</comment>


Live Speaker Notes Feed From Startup School 2007! - <AUTHOR> http://wiki.startupschool.org/doku.php?id=notes <comment><USER2> My notes here: <http://blog.ryanjunee.com/2007/03/startup-school/>

</comment><comment><USER3> Thanks for posting the notes. I wonder if other attendees can flesh out the notes. Perhaps in a wiki? Paul Buchheit's talk - cant figure out from the notes why he veers off into databases. But it is refreshing to hear him say - redefine success.

<comment><USER4> He was talking about scaling and how you have to think of things in new ways.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> This repository is invaluable for those who were not able to make it to Startup School. Many thanks for putting it up!

Does anyone have pictures/videos from the event?

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> an even better set of notes is here:

<http://www.scribd.com/doc/18290/Y-Combinator-Startup-School-2007-Notes>

</comment><comment><USER6> Are others able to get PG's presentation to appear?

<comment><USER7> Nope.

<comment><USER6> Maybe it's for the best. It'll probably be better to read it when it's (presumably) edited into essay form.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> wiki notes: <http://wiki.startupschool.org/doku.php?id=notes>

</comment><comment><USER9> Joshwa...thanks for putting this up.</comment>


Show HN: SVG pinout of Tessel - <AUTHOR> http://pinboardjs.divshot.io/tessel

<comment><AUTHOR> I am working on a project to make lookup of pins for hardware easier. Datasheets for most electronic components are a pain today.</comment>


Can software leaders use metrics without damaging culture? - <AUTHOR> https://linearb.io/blog/how-software-leaders-can-use-metrics-without-damaging-culture <comment><USER2> I've been stuck working on a problem for the last two weeks, I know this by the lingering feeling of dread, and anyone can tell by the empty squares in my commit heat-map. How can metrics help me make progress, except to tell me to try something new: Read papers, study similar solutions, reach out to other that can help. Nothings has worked so far, but it does not deter me.

I did learn a curious fact about the productivity of the most prolific writers, musicians, comedians and other creative professions. Count the number of words written, notes composed and new jokes, then divide those by a reasonable number of working hours, let's say 5 days a week with 8 hours of work over the productive period in their life.

Unfortunately, I can't find the exact numbers anymore, but it was staggeringly low, something in the vein of 1 word written per hour, 1 note composed per day, and one new joke per week.

Sure there are things to be learned from data, just not always what fits the agenda of the managerial class.

<comment><USER3> Yeah I'm gonna need a citation on that one Chief

<comment><USER3> > Unfortunately, I can't find the exact numbers anymore, but it was > staggeringly low, something in the vein of 1 word written per hour, 1 note > composed per day, and one new joke per week.

This is so ridiculous as to be offensive. Bring the downvotes, I don't care.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> If you skipped straight to the HN comments, the article is worth reading. The author makes some thoughtful suggestions and points out some common pitfalls.

Although recently, I've noticed another reason to tread lightly with metrics: Metrics have become a highly-charged topic among developers who consume a lot of Twitter, Reddit, HN and other developer chatter. The cynical response to any metrics tracking program is to claim that they will be gamed, or abused, or misused by management. Once your team has adopted this cynical mindset, they're unlikely to see metrics any other way, so they get to work gaming and abusing the system.

In my experience, getting as much team buy-in as possible is the key to making metrics a success. It's healthy to invite the teams to an open discussion about what metrics they think should be tracked. Give them an opportunity to openly discuss objections, and make a valid effort to acknowledge and work with their suggestions as you develop your metrics program. Ideally, you would find one or two metrics that benefit the team members directly rather than the company or management.

It's important that developers can see the metrics as an open target to help them excel within the company, rather than a punitive measure or something that management can use as a substitute for real engagement. When team metrics decline, use that opportunity to open a discussion with the team. If you let metrics become a punitive measure or a guide for who gets promoted or fired, they will absolutely be gamed to death.

<comment><USER5> I'd like to see evidence that cynicism about metrics leads to abuse and gaming rather than just leaving. That perspective seems cynical in itself.

In my experience metrics make no difference on success, the dynamics of the team and the workflow have been set up for success or failure before you started measuring it. Metrics should never be a target, once a measure becomes a target it ceases to be a good measure.

Measures should be used to give you awareness of time and quantity. Quality as efficiency is inaccurate, it ignores the properties of the work created. Being aware of time and quantity gives managers of large empires the ability to summarize the work of many individuals into a few measures. This kills the point of individually excelling and creates the grounds for union largess. In a few years everybody realizes that the work is not created equal and you create an incentive for real quality minded people to started ranking everybody and allowing room for clearing the bottom 10%.

The same ideas in the article are pushed across youtube, across HN and the internet culture at large, in time with each other. It's disappointing to see so many smart people walk in mental lock step with one another. It devalues the individual contribution and shows there is little left for the majority of these content creators to say that hasn't been said elsewhere.

<comment><USER6> Saying that the team dynamics have set up for success or failure on the get go sheds light only on teams that are on the positive side of that statement. What if my team is on the negative side? Should I just accept the loss and continue to a new project?

I agree that the dynamics of a dev team are extremely important. But how can one drive to get better without understanding their current status?

In my personal experience, there should be an open conversation between the team on deciding what to measure and what does the team want to improve on even if the team already has good dynamics. My moral as a developer was always up when my team got props for something, because I was a part of that success.

I think the focus needs to be on the team as a whole, instead of getting dragged into a comparisons game. The developers should be aware that this isn't an individuals race.

If you work in a large organization then you will still be measured even if you're team doesn't take the measurements on their own. Good metrics can only benefit you since you can control the conversation with your own data instead of data from a corporate figure that only looks at you as another row in their spreadsheet.

<comment><USER5> It is a race of individuals when you see people on HN posting about making hundreds of thousands for doing the job of multiple people. Sure not everybody wants to do that. What is the point in hobbling those that do by forcing them to fit a measure?

The individual seeing with metrics is not the action taking mind. The person who sees through metrics is a heart hidden behind a corporate body. The heart cannot imagine greater heights, it can only regulate flow. Blood pressure spikes get eliminated for "normality".

This lack of thought and focus on flow eliminates morals and devalues changing forms and structures in favour of a mindless gigantism. Corporations don't change individuals, they lump responsibility for failure upon me's and you's. The corporation's goal is to grow the flow at human cost. I among many would prefer not become one of Howard's humanoids (Network 1976) and would instead prefer to go out on the stage of individual achievement, if at all. We are all vulnerable to the snakes that encircle and poison hearts. Ideas go in one side of the heart and come out the other side dead.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I don't think so. Basically, with metrics you are saying that you need to reduce a multidimensional value down to a single dimension. In addition, metrics are open to gaming. Take for example cycle time:

>Cycle Time: If you can only have 1 metric, make it cycle time. Cycle time measures the amount of time from work started to work delivered; in other words, the amount of time from first commit to production release. Cycle time is important because it is a proxy for how optimized your team is.

If cycle time is being optimized for, then eventually, someone on the team will discover that if they make an "experimental prototype" on their laptop before checking it in, their cycle time goes down a lot.

There really is no substitute for an involved manager, however that does not scale, and so you go to metrics. But, I would argue, you have already damaged the culture.

<comment><USER8> You'd never take a team wide metric like cycle time (which is a function of the whole company) and use it to evaluate a single person. There shouldn't be any benefit to an individual to have a low cycle time.

<comment><USER7> > You'd never take a team wide metric like cycle time (which is a function of > the whole company) and use it to evaluate a single person

In theory, yes. But in practice, I bet there are a lot of people here who have stories of a metric that was supposed to only be used team wide, but was used for evaluating an individual.

<comment><USER9> team metrics show the team is underperforming? team lead, CTO, etc. gets canned

<comment><USER6> Honestly I don't think you can avoid getting measured, even if the person measuring only does it in their head. If you feel you're doing a good job than it's best for you to measure that on your own and show proof for that instead of your boss relating on their instincts... Also if you feel you can do better than it's probably best that you understand why in order to improve that, so your boss won't have the need to let you go. Everyone's looking at the one negative side but there are tons of positives that apply to a large percentage of the worforce

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Visible metrics that tie to company, product or infrastructure health are highly useful if they are relatively objective and not subject to gaming. But tying them to individual performance is always the wrong thing in knowledge work; not only is it dehumanizing but it also fails to account for the subjectivity in any creative profession where people with the same job title work on radically different things.

As a manager there are some individual metrics that could serve as a "smell" to investigate but you shouldn't publish those metrics or ever use them in communications or as reasoning for any decision.

</comment><comment><USER11> If you use metrics to evaluate performance, expect EVERYTHING to be gamed around them.

My friend at Facebook says that everything is based on metrics. So people will ask others to give them a "thanks" in the Performance system for Mundane things like going to a meeting. Numbers of reviews that are commented on are also a metric, so people will +1 a review.

This happens everywhere, not just Facebook. Whatever metrics you employ will incentivize your employees to target those. If you value LOC then those will be targeted. If you value number of checkins, then those will be targeted. And that's how it should be because that's what you as a manager are defining to your employees is what is important and valued.

So if you do choose metrics then be aware that it will change the culture.

<comment><USER12> That's the lovely thing about working in HFT: can make the PnL the metric, as it's much easier to connect work to PnL impact, and then everybody is working towards increasing an actually useful metric.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> When leaders start micromanaging and overreaching, there's really no more autonomy and the responsibilities for outcomes are taken away from the individual. Notice: This can happen at the management-level as well!

Similar with metrics, it becomes a diversion to attend to waste (extra efforts to produce quality data), while removing autonomy and opportunities.

Those metrics that do work, are owned by people themselves, and are used as tools, not as a whip, carrot or other games of diversions. As tools, the metrics can be changed or removed, as seen necessary.

</comment><comment><USER14> Sounds like a lot of people in this thread are confusing metrics with measures. A metric is just that. Its just a number. It means nothing except giving you historical context over time.

A measure is when you expect a specific quota or compare a metric against another.

Goodharts law, "a metric that becomes a measure ceases to be a good metric".

In other words, once its a measure, its gamed, and useless. So how do you prevent this? Let people tell their own story. Have metrics, no quotas. Dont compare teams. Dont compare individuals. Have metrics, lots of them. Preferably enough thats its impossible to game all of them. Only let the full picture tell the story, never get too focused on one specific metric.

This applies to everything. Too focused on ARR? Guess what, you will make terrible deals at a discounted rate, have high churn, and bad customer support. Too focused on churn? You will hold on to customers you should let go. You have to always look at the bigger picture.

Only metrics, no measures.

</comment><comment><USER15> I think metrics are very useful but only when used properly. A lack of metrics means we can't always see what's going on and goals may be unclear; an overreliance on metrics is gameable and too impersonal.

Laos, as the article indicates to some extent, what you measure becomes what matters. As a manager, the metrics you create will (to an extent) help to define what kind of team you run and build.

</comment><comment><USER16> What is this "culture" thing in the article? It's undefined although apparently there's a danger of it being bad. Things can "impact" it. It can be grown and it can be damaged. I'm left thinking it may be a god or it may even be a skin rash.

What are they selling? Oh, project management software.

<comment><USER17> A try: the set of circumstances that cause your current employees to be motivated and productive.

If you currently have employees that have a lot of freedom, responsibility and little oversight and who thrive on that, then introducing more formal metrics can make them feel their work is becoming less fun and they become less motivated. But other employees like clear structure and formal methods and they'd welcome such things.

Usually the company has one style of management from the start, and people who like working under that style self-selected over time. That gives you your "culture", and changing it means you may make your company's management style less of a good fit for its employees.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> No according to mythical man month.

</comment><comment><USER19> When someone asks me to measure something.... I instantly say the answer is 42.... what are you going to do about it?

</comment><comment><USER20> No.

</comment><comment><USER21> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headline...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines)</comment>


Most software already has a "golden key" backdoor: the system update - <AUTHOR> https://arstechnica.com/security/2016/02/most-software-already-has-a-golden-key-backdoor-its-called-auto-update/ <comment><USER2> But, at _some point_ there must be trust. If you don't trust software, you can try to sandbox it, but now you have to trust the sandbox. This devolves very rapidly. Open source at least provides a facsimile of recourse - just go read the code - but how much of your currently-running open-source code have you actually read? For that matter, if you had, could you be confident that you'd understood it? The Underhanded C Contest is a thing, after all. A sufficiently paranoid individual can only run code they wrote themselves. Or, they can choose to run code without a strong understanding of what it's doing.

If Apple subverts their updates, that's mostly interesting as a signal of their trustworthiness moving forwards. The coolest thing about this is that we know it's happening at all, I think.

<comment><USER3> > Open source at least provides a facsimile of recourse - just go read the > code - but how much of your currently-running open-source code have you > actually read?

Wait, what? That is _not_ the recourse that open source provides.

The great thing about open source is that you don't need _every_ person to read the code, just _one_ person who can either catch or verify the absence of user-abusive material.

Moreover, even if _zero_ people read the code today, it is preserved so that state (or corporate) abuse can be revealed later, providing another disincentive to introduce abusive material.

<comment><USER4> How do you know you are running the same software that everybody else is reviewing?

<comment><USER5> Please see the Reproducible Builds project, a vital contribution to answering this question.

[https://reproducible-builds.org/](https://reproducible-builds.org/)

<comment><USER4> Reproducible builds do not cut it. If you have a known good binary signature, you'd also have a known good source signature and wouldn't have the problem.

Or, to put it in better words, where do you get the certificate to check your build from? At extreme paranoia levels, you simply can never be sure you have the same software as everybody else, thus the only safe alternative is reviewing your copy yourself.

(How do you know the computer is showing you the correct contents of your files? Didn't think that well enough yet.)

<comment><USER5> Diverse Double Compiling is a proven solution to the On Trusting Trust problem [0]. So, if a package maintainer signs a package and posts that signature on an https page, I can have a high level of confidence that the software I compile and run on my machine is identical.

Here is some advice from Schneier on running secure software against a state- level adversary [1][2]. However, even that is not immune from a black bag job [3].

[0] [http://www.dwheeler.com/trusting- trust/](http://www.dwheeler.com/trusting-trust/) [1] [https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/10/air_gaps.html](https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/10/air_gaps.html) [2] [https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/04/tails.html](https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/04/tails.html) [3] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_bag_operation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_bag_operation)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Remember when software didn't need updates almost every day? It seems like we've regressed in terms of quality and the general principle of _doing it right the first time_. I understand that some things do change and bugs do occur, but I don't think _everything_ needs to, nor should the rate of bugs being found be anywhere near what it is today.

Personally, I prefer stability over "new features", turn off automatic updates, and read changelists carefully. Anything which doesn't have a good description and rationale of _why_ it needs to be changed, and how that is relevant to my usage of the software, doesn't get changed. (And software which doesn't give me the option of doing so, doesn't get used either.)

<comment><USER7>
      > It seems like we've regressed in terms of quality and the
      > general principle of doing it right the first time.

This is what Agile ideologues have brought us. "Valuing working software over documentation" does not, in my experience, tend to result in workable development, and that just doesn't lead to working software.

<comment><USER8> There is no way of guaranteeing doing it right the first time. Most of the methodologies of software development take the iterative process as a measure of caution, prevention or risk avoidance similar processes.

In fact CMMi mentions the importance of measure, iterate and fix as soon as you can... which is the response to the premise of being unable to "just do-it it right"

<comment><USER9> I don't think I get where your post is going. When I hear some combination of "getting it right" and "first time" I don't presume that the development team only gets one crack at something. Instead, it just sounds like iterating internally on something until it's ready without cutting corners.

<comment><USER8> It goes to show that the poster idea

>Agile ideologues -> just doesn't lead to working software

it's a flawed idea; if you want to take agile core values all of them are focused on actually trying to reduce errors and improve quality [0].

On the other hand it's a very broad generalization, and leaves the open question "what does actually lead to working software?"

[0] [http://www.agilemanifesto.org/](http://www.agilemanifesto.org/)

<comment><USER7> On a small point of order, I'm slightly worried that you might have read "idealogues" as a typo for "ideologies" \- very much not the case! I very much meant ideal _ogues_.

I don't take much issue with the underlying ideas of the Agile manifesto - it's the ritualisation and thoughtlessness that it can lead to that irks me. The "anti Agile manifesto", many though its faults are, rings true in a lot of places, to my mind: "backlogs are really just to do lists" seems pretty much inarguable, for one.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> The important difference between a FLOSS system like Debian versus the walled garden of Apple is the ability to choose which keys you trust. If I lose trust in one of the Debian signers I can remove that key. I can select a different repository to download packages from. Or I can stop accepting updates and apply patches manually.

As to a key being a single point of failure, PGP allows for multiply signed documents. Couldn't Debian require packages to be signed by at least two keys?

</comment><comment><USER11> > Is it reasonable to describe these single points of failure as backdoors?

Yes. The case that Apple is making is, in part, that the FBI is forcing them to _use_ a back door by putting Apple's stamp of approval on it with their signing key. Whether or not you agree that Apple must _create_ the back door or not, they are still being asked to approve its use. Apple says this is compelled speech and violates the first amendment. Their brief has more details about it. The Tech Dirt summary has the most details [1]. Here's one notable passage,

 _"The government asks this Court to command Apple to write software that will neutralize safety features that Apple has built into the iPhone in response to consumer privacy concerns... This amounts to compelled speech and viewpoint discrimination in violation of the First Amendment."_

> I think many people might argue that industry-standard systems for ensuring > software update authenticity do not qualify as backdoors, perhaps because > their existence is not secret or hidden in any way.

It's relative. That used to be somewhat hidden. Now it's very out in the open.

> Having access to a "secure golden key" could be quite dangerous if > sufficiently motivated people decide that they want access to it.

Yeah. So let's not compromise Apple's existing security procedures by forcing that out in the open.

> I expect that in the not-too-distant future, for many applications at least, > attackers wishing to perform targeted malicious updates will be unable to do > so without compromising a multitude of keys held by many people in many > different legal jurisdictions.

I hope this day comes soon. For now, let's continue fighting for our right to privacy.

[1] [https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160225/15240333713/we- re...](https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160225/15240333713/we-read- apples-65-page-filing-calling-bullshit-justice-department-so-you-dont-have- to.shtml)

</comment><comment><USER8> >"Being free of single points of failure should be a basic requirement for any new software distribution mechanisms deployed today."

As in write error-free software?

</comment><comment><USER12> The article claims that forcing Apple to write the software "isn't a big deal, as they could pay someone to do that". If the software malfunctioned and/or erased evidence on the device, who would be liable?

<comment><USER8> Well, the article mentions that; but the main point is update mechanisms are a single point of failure, because it's by design a way of delivering a change that will be applied an run as a root.

On the other hand it does also lacks a reference or numbers on how many times it has been exploited.

<comment><USER13> That's why updates only happen when the user accepts the update after authenticating themselves.

<comment><USER14> Exactly, that's the part i don't understand yet...

Why doesn't Apple create a mechanism which "only allows updates to be applied after the correct pin is entered"? Then, an update created by the FBI, which would disable security mechanisms, could not be installed (without knowing the correct pin).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> This is why EFF urges that software makers (applies to makers of hardware too, if there is a software component) should always keep the end user in the loop of deciding whether to accept updates.

</comment><comment><USER15> this is totally correct. I agree with everything he says. However, in a world where everyone uses:

Android

Chrome

Google DNS

Google Analytics

Google Authenticator

Google Certificates (issue and validate)

Hangouts

Gmail

Google Docs

Many machine learning is run on google code using google opensourced software.

search

chromecast

maps

google connect (starbucks, other retailers)

google domain registration

google chrome/webkit

google wallet

google playstore

google CDN for serving code/fonts/libraries

google self driving cars are coming

</comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment>===

I am not saying google is bad. Not even referencing this article because I think it was well thought out and there aren't that many people even saying this, although it is fairly intuitive, but the larger paradox is this:

Many people talk about some database being sloppy and how they would have it replicated, maybe even a cold backup in AWS glacier on top of the backups, and yet the world is using like 3 stacks: google, apple and microsoft.

Outside of this community, and a few other places, it would be highly unlikely someone is running their own openwrt router and have freebsd on their computer, fully encrypt all their emails and run their own mail server, don't own a cellphone and use garmin to navigate AND

all of their network does this too and therefore they are insulated sufficiently.

</comment><comment><USER16> Over the weekend, Apple pushed an update to a kernel extension exclusion list that broke ethernet for thousands of users. There was no notification of this update, it simply got pushed and installed, suddenly ethernet broke - as in, not even visible to the system because the ethernet driver (kext) was disallowed from loading.

So... yeah it's a mistake, annoying. But we're in some sense expecting much more privacy, security, reliability of our mobile devices than our desktop systems. And I think that's an interesting shift in expectations.

</comment><comment><USER17> Maybe it's time to ask Google to ask for permission before updating Chrome?

</comment><comment><USER18> A system update is how Apple would install a backdoor, if they were forced to.</comment>


Our understanding of the way the body handles salt may be wrong - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/08/health/salt-health-effects.html?mc=adintl&mcid=keywee&subid=pay&subid1=nordicEU&ad-keywords=auddevgate&kwp_0=413855&kwp_4=1523157&kwp_1=662103 <comment><USER2> This needs to be paired with Scientific American: It's time to end the war on salt

[https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/its-time-to- end-t...](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/its-time-to-end-the-war- on-salt/)

<comment><USER3> Actually, the Scientific American article is wrong. This space study also concludes that salt is harmful. Now possibly in more ways than was previously known.

<comment><USER4> Salt intake over years is not the same as salt intake over a month making this study meaningless in terms of long term heath impacts.

<comment><USER3> Nope.

<comment><USER4> The US recommended salt intake is limited to 1.5g to 2.3g grams of salt depending on some risk factors. Their 'low' intake was 6g and high was 12grams / day. [https://sodiumbreakup.heart.org/how_much_sodium_should_i_eat](https://sodiumbreakup.heart.org/how_much_sodium_should_i_eat)

So, I am saying almost 5x the recommended limit for a month might not generalize very well. Sorry, 'Nope' is not going to cut it. Further, the human body climatizes to various situations over time suck as heat or altitude, I suspect salt intake is probably good example of that.

<comment><USER5> A lot of the cross-talk in the whole salt/sodium debate is caused by conflating salt (sodium chloride) with sodium, one of its constituents.

The US daily recommended _sodium_ intake is 1.5-2.3g. The sodium component of sodium chloride is about 40%, so that's more like 3.75-5.75g of _salt_ per day. Still lower than the study, but putting the higher recommended amount right around the lower study amount.

(I consume up to an extra teaspoon of _salt_ each day to make sure I'm getting at least 5000mg of _sodium_ so I don't start passing out at an inconvenient moment, on advice of a cardiologist)

<comment><USER4> Good catch.

These are supposed to be limits not minimum recommendations. Also people get sodium from more than just salt so 5.75g of salt is still high and calling 6g low is kind of a misnomer.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> For the past year I've been on a low sodium diet, not so easy to achieve. After reviewing the renal physiology I learned about years ago re: sodium and calcium regulation, I'll testify it's every bit as complex as I remember and then some.

I'll be interested in reading the articles the newspaper report is based on, but ATM not sure how much the new findings contradict (vs. extend) what's thought to be true about the physiological roles of sodium. In terms of implications for health issues, conditions like hypertension are enormously heterogeneous in origin, salt intake being only one factor among a huge number of factors involved.

I was interested in the comment that high salt intake was potentially adverse for bone health via glucocorticoid stimulation. One thing I've recently learned is how high dietary sodium negatively affects bone calcium balance via mechanisms within bone cells, and in some people, excessive renal calcium excretion as well. These issues aren't AFAIK primarily mediated by elevated cortisol. So it seems to be suggesting another way high sodium intake promotes bone loss.

Goes to show we know a lot less than we think we know, in this case about body regulation of essential minerals like sodium and calcium. When we realize that also applies to every other factor we think related to high blood pressure or osteoporosis, it's very humbling indeed.

<comment><USER7> A random theory, if you will: glucocorticoids have a weak affinity for the mineralocorticoid receptors (aldosterone, salt and water retention). The increased salt reabsorption caused by this could cause an osmotic gradient driving calcium excretion.

It sounds a bit too complicated though, where a transporter would fit in nicely.

<comment><USER6> I don't have any direct info re: mineralocorticoid effect on renal reabsorbtion of calcium, however the interaction of sodium and calcium has been studied as it is important in kidney disease, for example kidney stones, and osteoporosis as well. Here is an article on an excellent site that discusses some of the significant aspects of sodium/calcium regulation: [http://kidneystones.uchicago.edu/does-too-much-protein- incre...](http://kidneystones.uchicago.edu/does-too-much-protein-increase- stones-or-damage-bones/).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I have a hypothesis that all the negative effects associated with increased salt intake are really negative effects of overeating. If we measure the salt intake of people who primarily eat fast food -- which has a constant salt content -- the amount of salt ingested will be proportional to the amount of food ingested. So the person who eats five Big Mac meals a day will ingest, roughly, five times as much salt as a person eating only one, but I would claim the adverse effects associated with this are related to overeating, not the increased salt intake.

Is anyone familiar with studies that study the health effects of salt with this in mind? I.e. keeping food amounts constant over different groups, while varying only salt content?

<comment><USER9> _all the negative effects associated with increased salt intake are really negative effects of overeating_

I'd also say that plays a role to some degree in real life, but only some. Net effects of higher salt intake (given oter things remain equal) can exist as well: the article clearly mentions higher salt intake leading to higher glucocorticoid levels which in turn are linked to osteoporosis, muscle loss, type 2 diabetes and other metabolic problems

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> I think Thor Heyerdahl or someone on one of his crews noted that when they added seawater to the freshwater to make it last longer it also made them less thirsty.

IIRC they thought it was an interesting observation since it was against all common understanding, but I don't think they ever came close to a solution to why.

<comment><USER11> Did he (or they) happen to mention the ratios of salt water to fresh? I don't know a whole lot about this topic, but I do recall reading somewhere that thirsty seafarers who succumbed to the urge to drink seawater ended up dying more quickly. I wonder if they figured out how much was okay to drink before it started negatively impacting health.

<comment><USER12> The negative impact is due to water loss via vomiting or diarrhea, and thus having a negative water balance. It's not like saltwater in itself kills you. In fact, you could drink the water of some less salty seas, e.g. the Baltic Sea.

<comment><USER13> The real bad impact is from disrupting the way your kidneys work. Basically, seawater has a higher concentration of salt than it is possible for your kidneys to remove via urine (due to the physics of that process).

For one thing, your body will try to use its existing water supply to flush the extra salt, which means that you'll be urinating (= dehydrating) more than usual. Once that's all gone, and seawater is the sole source for water in your body, your body will no longer be able to produce urine to carry the usual toxins out. Eventually your kidneys will fail.

Although in practice, you will feel like a wreck both physically and mentally long before then, and given that people in a situation where they can only drink seawater generally have other dangerous conditions to deal with, these debilitating effects can well kill you before that.

This also explains why diluting seawater is potentially viable - so long as you keep the salt concentration below the level your kidneys can handle, you can keep them working normally.

<comment><USER14> But the entire article is about the body using metabolic water, not dietary water, to excrete salt. So it wouldn't matter the concentration of the salt in the water you intake - your body would burn enough carbohydrates and protein to generate enough water to dilute it.

I suppose in a starvation situation you'd be in extreme catabolism and just make everything worse.

<comment><USER15> Seawater is 35 grams of salt per liter, so even modest consumption of it involves considerably more salt than talked about in the study.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> This didn't surprise me so much. In several hot countries I have noted people taking salt to relieve thirst. In Mongolia I drank heavily salted tea (the usual there) all summer and it becomes quite natural.

Maybe I'm missing some of the subtleties here?

<comment><USER17> You'll notice the same behavior from long distance runners, cyclists, hikers, etc. At some point you start feeling dehydration because you're missing electrolytes. If your water intake isn't salted or packed with minerals in some other way, it just makes you thirstier and thirstier.

Especially when it's hot out.

<comment><USER18> This simple lesson was taught to us day one in boot camp when I was in the army, and reiterated constantly over the years.

We were required to take our salt packet out of our MRE's and eat the entire contents. The amount of water consumed (and flushed out through perspiration) throughout the day would have severely dehydrated anyone who didn't consume adequate (high) levels of salt.

<comment><USER19> I drink tons of water and I get lots of cramps, presumably from electrolyte shortage. Is there any way of knowing what the right amount of salt is to be consuming?

<comment><USER20> Rule of tongue - if it tastes salty its too much salt.

Take a half full water bottle. Add some salt. See if it is salty yet, then keep adding until it is just barely salty. Then fill the bottle to the top. If you taste salt you added too much.

Note that with kcl, you start with less water, more like a quarter of the bottle, because the salty flavor is much weaker.

<comment><USER19> This is with every bottle you drink? So basically once I figure out the amount, I should put that much in _every time_ I get a fresh glass?

<comment><USER21> Hey. If you're drinking lots of water and getting lots of cramps, don't ask people on the internets. Ask a physician, right? If there's something wrong with your kidneys, say, you won't make it better until you figure out what it is.

<comment><USER19> Very often people on the internet have more expertise in things than a physician. Also, physicians are often overkill for minor problems, the system would be overloaded if we went to them for every little thing.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> That is interesting. I see an advantage this adaption offers when trapped with only salty sea water. Excessive salt intake may occur naturally when in the ocean for whatever reason. When this reduces thirst and offers an (internal) alternative for water this may help you survive until you strand somewhere to find fresh water. Not the worst trait evolution could select for.

<comment><USER23> There is a negative side to it, you use up more calories.

(unrelated, I think fast food companies are already aware of the more hunger from salty food.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> > Instead of drinking more, the crew were drinking less in the long run when > getting more salt. So where was the excreted water coming from? "There was > only one way to explain this phenomenon," Dr. Titze said. "The body most > likely had generated or produced water when salt intake was high."

That's odd, what if simply a high-level of sodium reduces your perspiration? Wikipedia[1] says "The volume of water lost in sweat daily is highly variable, ranging from 100 to 8,000 mL/day." so between 0.1 and _8 liters_ per day! [2] even says 10 to 12 liters per day!

If on average over a long period the subjects drank let's say exactly 1 liter per day and peed strictly more than 1 liter of water, then I'd agree with what this Dr. said, but neither this nytimes article, nor the 2 papers mentioned [3][4] mention the word perspiration or sweat in their abstracts/summaries, why not?

Off-topic: Did nytimes.com made it hard on purpose to select text from their article? On Chrome and Firefox I can't select text easily, only Edge lets me.

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspiration](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspiration)

[2] [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2267797/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2267797/)

[3] [https://www.jci.org/articles/view/88530](https://www.jci.org/articles/view/88530)

[4] [https://www.jci.org/articles/view/88532](https://www.jci.org/articles/view/88532)

<comment><USER15> It's not odd though, water is one of the outputs of our energy metabolism.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> _And, Dr. Titze said, high glucocorticoid levels are linked to such conditions as osteoporosis, muscle loss, Type 2 diabetes and other metabolic problems._

And cystic fibrosis, which is perhaps best tldr'd as a salt wasting condition, frequently leads to Cystic Fibrosis Related Diabetes, which is neither type 1 nor type 2 diabetes.

<comment><USER26> CFTR, being a chloride channel, most likely leads to diabetes as a consequence of its effects on the voltage-regulated insulin release in beta cells from glucose sensing. [1]

It strikes me as unlikely to be related to the salt-wasting that occurs from failure to reabsorb chloride in the epithelium.

1 = [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4104438/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4104438/)

<comment><USER25> I think it is probably a lot more complicated than that. CF does a great many things to the body. It is an inflammatory condition and I have seen multiple articles linking diabetes and inflammation. People with CF tend to be seriously underweight and I have recently seen articles that link inadequate muscle protein to insulin resistance. There is no doubt more than that going on, those are just a couple of things that occur to me off the top of my head.

<comment><USER27> I have CF. About 2009 (age 32) I developed diabetes (commonly known as CFRD, CF related diabetes). CF patients early on have the ducts in their pancreas blocked from producing digestive enzymes, causing low weight. We take digestive enzyme supplements to (inefficiently) counter this. (I realize you have CF too - laying out background for the non-CF reader) My understanding is that the eventual diabetes is caused by gradually decreasing pancreas function.

<comment><USER25> I genuinely think it is a lot more complicated than that. My blood sugar is more stable than it has ever been and I have gotten off digestive enzymes. I wasn't doing anything to specifically try to fix my blood sugar issues. I was doing things like trying to get inflammation and infection under control based on the success of therapies like daily ibuprofen. I read up on that, inferred that if you can reduce inflammation, you can be less symptomatic, and used a dietary and lifestyle approach to do that. I did take ibuprofen daily for something like 5 or 6 years, but was eventually able to successfully control symptoms such that I no longer needed it. Somewhere along the way, I happened to see articles about the link between diabetes and inflammation. Inflammation and infection go hand in hand, so I think very likely infection plays a role in the collapse of pancreatic function in pwcf.

The low weight is also from the gut being all kinds of out of whack and just not absorbing nutrients. There are things that can be done to improve gut function. The gut is about 70 percent of your immune system, so I think efforts to repair the gut lead to many different good things, including better nutritional status and a more functional immune system.

Though the degree to which you can correct these problems no doubt will be influenced by which specific alleles you have, I think there is a lot of room for improvement for most people with CF. Maybe it won't make much difference if you have one of the variations where the CFTR just basically doesn't work at all.

I used to jokingly talk about "Pale Skin Disorder" as a metaphor for special needs in my kids. It works well as a metaphor for what I mean here too. If you have pale skin (low melanin production) and are easily sun burned, there are things you can do to protect against sunburn. You aren't doomed to simply be sunburned to the point of peeling all the time. But if you are an albino and totally lack melanin, it is a whole different ball game.

So, if you have a form of CF that is the equivalent of albinism where the CFTR simply does nothing or is outright absent, instead of one of the many variations where it has one of a number of different types of impairments, my assumption is that would be less responsive to dietary and lifestyle changes. Though I don't actually know.

Anyway, my apologies if I have offended. I rarely engage pwcf in discussion anymore as it tends to go bad places. Thank you for commenting.

<comment><USER27> > Though the degree to which you can correct these problems no doubt will be > influenced by which specific alleles you have, I think there is a lot of > room for improvement for most people with CF. Maybe it won't make much > difference if you have one of the variations where the CFTR just basically > doesn't work at all.

I'm delta-f508 homozygous, so I suspect there's less CFTR function. I lose a tremendous amount of salt when I sweat, so I suspect that's an indicator of function level. Oddly enough, I've always had less respiratory issues for CF, but my stomach pain and weight have been pretty severe as long as I can remember. (I wasn't diagnosed about age 13, and I can remember intense pain before then. When I'm religious about enzymes it's usually not an issue however.) My A1C these days is poor, and my BGC always runs high. I could probably counteract with diet, but then I have to contend to with keeping my weight up. I suspect I may be a much lower pancreas function than what you're describing.

> Anyway, my apologies if I have offended.

Not at all! I'll definitely look into inflammation etc.

<comment><USER25> Try adding aloe vera to your diet as a first step.

[http://miceats.blogspot.com/2016/09/aloe- vera.html](http://miceats.blogspot.com/2016/09/aloe-vera.html)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> my n=1: I am on an extremely low sodium diet (around 500mg/day) and I didn't find any difference in thirst or hunger levels compared to when I was on a more typical 4000-5000mg/day one.

The only change for me (besides of course a period of adjustment where food didn't taste like much) has been a significantly lower blood pressure (from typically 145/85 to 105/65), everything else has remained pretty much the same.

<comment><USER29> That's interesting, did you control for changes in other diet elements, exercise, and water intake ? Some more recent studies show that except for short term spikes in blood pressure, salt isn't that guilty for high blood pressure in healthy individuals.

<comment><USER30> I'm going to throw a wrench into the gears by sharing the following: I had high blood pressure- not medication-triggering, just high-eyebrow stuff when I was younger (30s-early 40s). As a teenager I learned of the dangers of salt and weaned it out of my diet.

I got married and am the cook of the family, so after much complaining I started to add salt to my dishes when I cooked.

My blood pressure when down. Not by a little, but to the "wow your blood pressure is amazing" category (105 or 110). So, yeah, I don't think we know how salt works.

NB my exercise/habits stayed pretty much the same in this period.

<comment><USER31> My cardiologist told me never to try a low-sodium diet without talking with him first. He is very up-to-date on research and said that an equal number of people see blood pressure increase on low-sodium as see blood pressure decrease but for many (most?) people the difference is negligible. In other words if you are one of the ones who is very sensitive to changes in sodium you are as likely to be harmed as helped by lowering sodium.

<comment><USER32> Wow, so the blanket "high blood pressure = eat less salt" advice given by most doctors sounds not just unhelpful but flat-out wrong and dangerous.

<comment><USER33> not if you're the people who sell blood pressure medication...

<comment><USER32> True to your username... ;)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> Salt as far as I know is the only mineral (non plant) spice we use, it's purpose is to enhance taste.

There is a common confusion between salt (sodium chloride) and sodium, many falsely believing salt is not used only for taste but it's essential for health.

Sodium is a vital element that is found in almost all plants and animals and there is no need for an extra sodium intake because our food has plenty.

Sodium and potassium balance in the body is essential for cell physiology and our health [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Na%2B/K%2B-ATPase](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Na%2B/K%2B-ATPase)

I don't add salt in my food and avoid products with salt for more than a year, "heavy food" doesn't feel as heavy, my skin is not as dry as before and looks better and injuries seem to heal faster.

<comment><USER35> human habits include many activities that consume a lot of water too - if you drink alcohol, salt consumption on that day/night is a must!

i find adding some soysauce to a cup of water and chugging that before bed takes care of most side effects.

and food does taste better with salt added, i must admit, esp. meat.

<comment><USER36> _> food does taste better with salt added_

Right, so the mode of intake matters, not just the salt itself.

For example one could eat bland (unsalted) food and drink salt water later which would produce less pleasure for the same quantity of sodium consumed. So there might be different physiological effects.

<comment><USER35> taste + pleasure centers in the brain.

used to be useful when we were huntergatherers!

these days, it's just nice for food to taste good!</comment></comment></comment></comment>