"Was this review useful" button earns Amazon $2.7bn - <AUTHOR> http://www.uie.com/articles/magicbehindamazon/

<comment><USER2> _> "The most helpful review garnered only 566 votes, even though it was written on the first day the book was released and Amazon has sold more than 2,000,000 copies since."_

The first day part is key here. In my experience writing many and reading more reviews on Amazon, being first to post is key in having a review marked helpful.

Also, though they've apparently done some things to prevent the most straightforward gaming of the system, there are huge, obvious holes for abuse.

Consider SimCity[0]. The review section is worthless. The spotlight reviews are all 1-star rants. The most helpful 5-star reviews are sarcastic rants. The only remotely positive reviews, genuinely helpful reviews are buried.

The Amazon review section is a battleground for all sorts of Internet wars of preference.

I'm a fan of the recent "X reviewers made a similar statement". I've been hoping Google would introduce something similar for the Play store.

0: [http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007VTVRFA/](http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007VTVRFA/)</comment>


11 New Python Web Frameworks - <AUTHOR> https://deepsource.io/blog/new-python-web-frameworks/ <comment><USER2> I've shared this list here before, and I might need to update it, but here it is again, FWIW:

        New kids on the block:
        - Starlette https://www.starlette.io (function and class based routing)
        - Vibora https://vibora.io (function based routing, no classes)
        - Xweb https://github.com/gaojiuli/xweb (unusual routing system, should be possible to adapt to classes)
        - Storm https://github.com/jiajunhuang/storm (similar enough to Tornado, has classes, but installation is complex)
        - Responder http://python-responder.org (function-based, has classes only as code-grouping mechanism)
        - Quart https://pgjones.gitlab.io/quart/
        - Sanic https://sanic.readthedocs.io
        - Bocadillo https://bocadilloproject.github.io/
        - Japronto https://github.com/squeaky-pl/japronto

        The old guard:
        - Flask http://flask.pocoo.org
        - Tornado http://www.tornadoweb.org
        - Falcon https://falconframework.org/
        - Bottle https://bottlepy.org
        - Pyramid https://trypyramid.com/
        - CherryPy https://cherrypy.org/

        Less known older ones:
        - Wheezy Web https://pythonhosted.org/wheezy.web/
        - API Hour https://pythonhosted.org/api_hour/
        - Morepath https://morepath.readthedocs.io/en/latest/toc.html [WSGI]
        - Klein https://github.com/twisted/klein
        - Weppy http://weppy.org/</comment>


Ask HN: How to filter incoming air to a building - <AUTHOR> We're in the middle of another California wildfire season and I'm trying to figure out what the options are for getting fresh air into the home under these circumstances while working from home.<p>How effective would furnace filters be at filtering wildfire smoke air? Are there any products designed to both exchange AND filter air from the outside? <comment><USER2> I wouldn't worry about trying to filter the air on the way in. Your house won't be sealed up well enough to prevent smoky air from getting in. Instead, you can set the air to recirculate and augment your home filter with an air purifier. You want one that filters a large volume of air per hour. There's a lot of snake oil with regard to air purifiers out there; I generally try to stick to high airflow HEPA filter units to remove the smoke particulates. Some units also have an activated charcoal filter on top of the HEPA filter. These help with removing some of the VOCs that cause the smoky smell, but a lot of these filters are thin and don't last very long. (I'm not actually sure if the smell of smoke is bad for you or just the smoke particulates, but I prefer to get rid of the smell if I can.)

There's also some DIY solutions out there involving box fans and air filters. I don't think most box fans are actually powerful enough to move large volumes of air when combined with an air filter, but I did see one guy on Reddit who put a high MERV filter and a squirrel cage fan inside a wooden box enclosure and that seemed to work pretty well.

Also, if you're going to order an air purifier, do it soon. I suspect they are about to sell out very quickly.

<comment><USER3> This.

Your home should be seeing multiple air exchanges per hour. It doesn't much matter if particles are filtered on entry or after, but (paradoxically) an _indoor_ filter which accomplishes multiple passes of air through the filter membrane is likely more effective than an _intake_ filter which only conditions the airstream once.

Most homes or bedrooms should see 5-6 exchanges per hour:

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_changes_per_hour](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_changes_per_hour)

The minimum standard is 0.35 exchanges/hr:

[https://www.epa.gov/indoor-air-quality-iaq/how-much- ventilat...](https://www.epa.gov/indoor-air-quality-iaq/how-much-ventilation- do-i-need-my-home-improve-indoor-air-quality)

DIY box-fan + furnace filter methods _can be_ effective at reducing indoor particulate levels significantly. Not quite as effective as manufactured HEPA filters, but at a fraction of the cost.

PM2.5 reduction @ 50 minutes: 71% box fan, 89% HEPA filter.

[https://healthybuildingscience.com/2018/11/18/diy-box-fan- me...](https://healthybuildingscience.com/2018/11/18/diy-box-fan- merv-13-versus-hepa-air-purifier/)

MAKE instructional: [https://makezine.com/2018/11/16/build-an-affordable-air- puri...](https://makezine.com/2018/11/16/build-an-affordable-air-purifier- with-a-box-fan-and-hepa-filter/)

Also possible Covid-19 benefit:

[https://www.wired.com/story/could-a-janky-jury-rigged-air- pu...](https://www.wired.com/story/could-a-janky-jury-rigged-air-purifier- help-fight-covid-19/)

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> I just called an HVAC company and there's a product known as a _Heating Recovery Ventilator_ that pulls fresh air in, exchanges heat with the outside air coming in, and passes the incoming air through a filter. The filters however were not designed with the expectation that the air be full of smoke. They do offer some amount of filtration however. The store apparently stocks Fantech products.

There's also these grow room products that have fan and filter combinations such as [https://www.homedepot.com/p/Viagrow-6-in-Carbon-Air- Filter-w...](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Viagrow-6-in-Carbon-Air-Filter-with- Inline-Fan-Combo-V6CF-KIT/203554119)

This fella creates a DIY window based intake filter from a furnace filter, an air conditioner prefilter, and some other charcoal prefilter mesh [http://www.air-purifier-power.com/windowfanfilter080515.html](http://www.air- purifier-power.com/windowfanfilter080515.html). It apparently works well for everyday dust but is unknown how it stacks up against smoke.

There's also this product much in line with the above DIY project _Activated Carbon Passive Window Air Purifier_ [https://www.homedepot.com/p/Activated- Carbon-Passive-Window-...](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Activated-Carbon- Passive-Window-Air-Purifier-AC-736/206173822)

There's some airbox inline filter design too such as this unit [https://airboxfilter.com/Airboxfilters/air- box1](https://airboxfilter.com/Airboxfilters/air-box1)

</comment><comment><USER4> 2 filters, box fan, painters tape

<comment><USER3> Just one filter is very nearly as effective (if not more so by increased airflow) at reduced cost and more supplies for others.

Taping the filter to the intake side helps form a better seal -> more effective filtration.</comment></comment>


Deep cyberattacks cause millions in losses for US banks - <AUTHOR> http://www.networkworld.com/news/2013/082313-deep-cyberattacks-cause-millions-in-273121.html

<comment><USER2> i feel sooo bad for those banks. they really do suffer. but hey, don't fix the bug. sue the attackers!</comment>


Bernie Sanders unveils $150B plan to expand high-speed internet access - <AUTHOR> https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/6/20998849/bernie-sanders-rural-broadband-access-internet-cable-monopolies-antitrust-election-2020 <comment><USER2> I'm glad a political candidate is talking about this. In my town and many others, there is only one cable provider and they suck

</comment><comment><USER3> The state wants to spend $150 billion to achieve what a competent private sector contractor could for only $20 million. Nothing new here.

</comment><comment><USER4> Access to the internet(information) should be regarded as a human right.</comment>


Ask HN: Which is better: GraphQL vs. REST? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> I dunno, which is better, a screwdriver or a box-end wrench?

Which is better, peanut butter, or a jar of Gold Bond foot powder?

</comment><comment><USER3> If your API is relatively straightforward (as in 1 service that just connects to a database), then you won't profit from GraphQL as much. I see the biggest value of GraphQL when it's put as an intermediate layer between the clients and multiple services in the backend.

Note: _clients_ \- plural, usually different clients need different data and doing it in REST would result in over fetching (fetching the data you don't need)

</comment><comment><USER4> GraphQL's main advantage is better efficiency network-wise, as you only make one request to get all your data instead of several which is usually the case with REST when you have to fetch related resources.

If you're targeting a mobile app, GraphQL can be a good option. If your API is purely for server-to-server communication, then don't bother; it's extra complexity for pretty much no gain.

</comment><comment><USER5> The only intelligent answer to under-specified question is "it depends".

If you want to decouple frontend development from backend development then go GraphQL route. For example i you have multiple different consumers for your backend, i.e. an SPA, a mobile app and a 3rd party API endpoint. Wuth REST you will have to write and maintain 3 different endpoints vs only one with GraphQL.

</comment><comment><USER6> With proper use, every technology can be good.</comment>


Dietary carbohydrate intake and mortality: a prospective cohort study - <AUTHOR> https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(18)30135-X/fulltext <comment><USER2> "There are limitations to this study that merit consideration. This study represents observational data and is not a clinical trial; however, randomised trials of low carbohydrate diets on mortality are not practical because of the long duration of study required. Another limitation of this study is that diet was only assessed at two time intervals, spanning a 6-year period, and dietary patterns could change during 25 years."

This study is based on a 66 question FFQ (food frequency questionnaire) spanning a six year period. Do you remember what you ate last month? A year ago? Six years ago? Maybe a more modern version of these types of studies can be done if the subjects are required to take pics of everything they ate instead of reporting from memory on a questionnaire.

"LMS receives grant funding from the California Walnut Commission"

Oh?

"SC reports grants from the National Institutes of Health (NIH), and personal fees from Novartis and Zogenix"

Novartis and Zofenix are in the business of making statin drugs.

</comment><comment><USER3> So overweight people (high carbohydrate),and people with dietary restrictions (for whatever reason) have a lower lifespan. Shocking.

</comment><comment><USER4> So the 18 month Keto diet I've been on has been lowering my lifespan? At least I'll look good in the open casket.

<comment><USER5> This study's definition of low carb diet doesn't reach ketosis though.

I do want a proper study on a keto diet, on one hand it's an unnatural biochemical process for the majority of non-starving humanity, on the other hand there seems to be no downside to ketosis under than the Flu in the short term.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> If you're looking to make dietary choices based on the results of high-quality dietary studies, my goto is "How Not to Die"[1] and the author's non-profit website at, [http://nutritionfacts.org](http://nutritionfacts.org)

[1] [https://www.amazon.com/How-Not-Die-Discover- Scientifically/d...](https://www.amazon.com/How-Not-Die-Discover- Scientifically/dp/1250066115)

<comment><USER4> I found that the author used a lot of animal/mouse studies to draw conclusions and make recommendations... most things that work in mice, don't work in humans.

<comment><USER6> In my experience the author avoids animal/mouse based studies if at all possible.

He mentions only those that are frequently cited so as to address their results.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Results vary so widely in this field. My general understanding is:

• Polyunsaturated fats, the supposedly "good" fats in the classical model, actually go rancid really easily and cause damage.

• Saturated fats are associated with high cholesterol, which is a marker of some misunderstood kind of arterial and vascular inflammation. Not everyone gets an increase in cholesterol from consuming saturated fats, and we don't know why. It may be determined by the intestinal flora. But these "bad" fats are actually very stable, and do not appear to cause damage via oxidation as they don't go rancid easily.

• Monounsaturated fats have the best qualities of both.

tl;dr (imho): Have some of everything in moderation and with the due awareness of what you're having vs. your particular body.

Consume limited PUFA and be very aware of the potential rancidness vs. the effectiveness of antioxidants present in the source. Whole foods with antioxidants e.g. fruits tend to mitigate the oxidation of any PUFA that they contain. Consume limited saturated fat as per your propensity for LDL. You can't go wrong with monounsaturated fats, which are relatively stable and tend to come in high-antioxidant sources, and also do not cause LDL to rise. But overall, eat a moderate amount of fat.

Don't go too low carb as it causes a stress state (cortisol + damage-inducing free fatty acids). Get your carbs from buffered, whole food sources (e.g. fruits, whole wheat bread), but don't go high carb because it's damaging.

Have as much fiber (incl. resistant starches / FOS / FODMAP / "soluble fiber") as you can stomach. If they make you feel especially sick, you probably have gut fermentation (SIBO or similar). Some people like myself cannot tolerate anything fermentable.

Be aware of your idiosyncrasies, e.g. I can't tolerate histamines, so I must avoid high histamine or histamine-releasing foods like avocado, as well as anything fermentable or fermented.

Moderate exercise is superior to intense exercise. Exercise that is too intense is damaging and is linked with poorer health.

<comment><USER8> I asked above but since you seem to be knowledgeable, I'm looking for some super solid textbooks on fats/fatty acids. Because as you say, you can read contradictory statements in different books.

<comment><USER7> Sorry, I don't know of any books that I can recommend. I don't read health books. I find they require too big an investment in a single source.

<comment><USER8> no worries, I'll keep searching

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Some interesting discussion on /r/keto: [https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/comments/97zwph/science_bbc_lo...](https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/comments/97zwph/science_bbc_lowcarb_diets_could_shorten_life/)

<comment><USER10> From a comment there:

> _' The findings "will disappoint those who, from professional experience, > will continue to defend their low carb cult, but contributes to the > overwhelming body of evidence that supports a balanced approach to caloric > intake recommended globally by public health bodies," Collins added.'_ > [https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/17/health/low-carb-high- > carbohyd...](https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/17/health/low-carb-high- > carbohydrate-diet-risk-of-death-intl/)

Given the obvious problems with this study (their definition of "low carb" is wrong), this is just an astounding display of hubris.

<comment><USER11> That to me read more as CNN getting someone uninvolved in the research to give a quote that makes for good copy. I agree that it's not a particularly useful thing to say, but it's important to note that Collins is not involved in the core study.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> 37% of your dietary intake from carbs is not low carb.

<comment><USER13> +1. Keto is vastly lower, typically 5%. Someone eating a 37% carb diet will receive none of the health benefits that spending substantial periods in ketosis can bring, e.g. lowering cholesterol.

<comment><USER14> Alternatively: the study was about "low carb", while keto is "extremely low carb".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Sorry, but I stopped reading here "who completed a dietary questionnaire"

<comment><USER16> Who uses a certain (previously uncommon) diet that is said to help with diabetes and other serious issues? Those who are of average good health or those who experience some issues that already start to manifest? I wonder if the study corrects for those factors. Does the average person even participate in those studies?

We really need multiple long-running (50+ years) randomized study that controls for all influence factors to really answer the questions. Something that is unlikely to be accomplished in our current political lifetime and unlikely to be completed within our lifetime.

<comment><USER10> > "We really need multiple long-running (50+ years) randomized study that > controls for all influence factors to really answer the questions. Something > that is unlikely to be accomplished in our current political lifetime and > unlikely to be completed within our lifetime."

This would be a waste of money. Its not going to tell you anything about the effect of diet in any real people, only "average" people.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> It is really great to see more studies regarding low carbs diets. They are widely used in the fitness industry based on 'Broscience' and many Instagram models are paid to promote this kind of lifestyle.

<comment><USER18> What's eye opening about this as well is low carb diets lose you 4 years of life, compared to 1 year of life in a high carb diet.

 _we estimated that a 50-year-old participant with intake of less than 30% of energy from carbohydrate would have a projected life expectancy of 29·1 years, compared with 33·1 years for a participant who consumed 50–55% of energy from carbohydrate (difference 4·0 years [95% CI 2·6, 5·3]). Similarly, we estimated that a 50-year-old participant with high carbohydrate intake ( >65% of energy from carbohydrate) would have a projected life expectancy of 32·0 years, compared with 33·1 years_

<comment><USER19> No, it means that the people who were compelled to follow a low carbohydrate diet for one reason on another lived shorter. It doesn't tell you anything unless you know why they followed the diet they followed.

<comment><USER18> Hi ho, greetings to the rabid HN paleo crew, how you doing?

You're all over this thread like a bad rash.

<comment><USER19> Wha? I was never into paleo, I think it's stupid, every damn vegetable and animal has changed since, and it's not like we are sure people actually were so much better of back then...

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Note this from this study: "Low carbohydrate dietary patterns favouring animal-derived protein and fat sources, from sources such as lamb, beef, pork, and chicken, were associated with higher mortality, whereas those that favoured plant-derived protein and fat intake, from sources such as vegetables, nuts, peanut butter, and whole-grain breads, were associated with lower mortality"

So if you want low carbs, don't eat too much meat.

Plant based diets, such as the Mediterranean diet have been shown lead to reduced all cause mortality in randomized control trials [1]. Getting your diet right really isn't that hard, just eat fresh plant based food.

[1][https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1800389?query=fe...](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1800389?query=featured_home)

<comment><USER21> When someone mentions Mediterranean diet the first association I have is fish, white cheese, olive oil, fresh fruit and veggies, and whole grain bread. Correct me if I'm wrong - but I wouldn't classify that as a plant based diet.

<comment><USER4> The mediterranean diet study that was made the diet famous is fundamentally flawed as described in The Big Fat Surprise. It was done on a small population, self-reported, and during a time of war when supplies were short and people were eating atypical altered diet based on available food stuffs.

<comment><AUTHOR> I hadn't heard of The Big Fat Surprise, so I had a look around and found its author's Wikipedia page:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nina_Teicholz](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nina_Teicholz)

I quote from it:

>>"Nina Teicholz is a journalist who became an advocate opposed to the idea that saturated fat is unhealthy and should be minimized in the American diet."

So, to begin with, she's a journalist who wrote a book about fat. In fact, she advocated that people should load up their diets on fat, particularly saturated fat:

>>Teicholz advised readers to "eat butter; drink milk whole, and feed it to the whole family. Stock up on creamy cheeses, offal, and sausage, and yes, bacon"

This advice runs counter to the advice of public health organisations and the opinionts of scientists:

>> Teicholz' claims were harshly criticized by the DGAC, the US Department of Health and Human Services, the Center for Science in the Public Interest, and others, _including a petition signed by 180 scientists_ , and they called for BMJ to retract the article or issue corrections

My underlining.

I wouldn't trust that lady to tell me what to eat, or to criticise a scientific study's methodology. A journalist with a book has very clear incentives to "shake things up" by going against the scientific consensus. But, it's the opinion of experts that have studied the matter at length, who know the relevant bibliography well and understand its subtleties that one should trust more than outsiders who "rock the boat" for their own reasons.

Finally- it's really dangerous to listen to someone who tells you that, that thing you love to eat (or smoke, or drink, etc) that you always knew was not very good for you is actually very healthy. You have a big, fat incentive to blieve them unconditionally.

<comment><USER22> I have read her book, and it is fascinating. Go ahead and make your assumptions about her motives, but I believe you are doing yourself a disservice. Before the 20th century, we ate a lot of saturated fats, and it wasn't until the creation of vegetable oils (which are made through extensive industrial processes), was there a move to start restricting saturated fat. The current low-fat diet is an experiment that has America has been on for forty some years. Please take a look at this.

[https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/low- fat-d...](https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/low-fat-diets- failed-experiment/)

And in general, the American population has been following this diet, and we are fatter than ever before, suffering from Type 2 Diabetes. And the "science" behind our current health policy is driven by organizations like the American Soybean Asociation who are more concerned with making money and less on science. And when you start talking about money, the science research will follow the money, because the scientists need to eat.

Please take a look at this videos,

[https://youtu.be/Q2UnOryQiIY](https://youtu.be/Q2UnOryQiIY) [https://youtu.be/7Lww5WH7INI](https://youtu.be/7Lww5WH7INI)

I would read her book before you pass judgment.

<comment><AUTHOR> >> Before the 20th century, we ate a lot of saturated fats, and it wasn't until the creation of vegetable oils (which are made through extensive industrial processes),

This can't be right. Olive oil is a vegetable oil and it's been known since antiquity. Its preparation requires an olive mill and a donkey to turn the millstone. Not "extensive industrial processes!

<comment><USER22> Certainly, Olive Oil has been around for a very long time, it wasn't until the 20th century that it became a major food product. Olive Oil was more valued for cosmetics, medicine, and in lamps. Actually, the original Olympic torch burned olive oil. Also, note that Olives are actually a fruit, but I understand why you bring it up as an example.

I am talking about those other vegetable oils, like grapeseed oil, canola oil, sunflower oil, cottonseed oil. Do you remember Crisco short, this was a new product produced from cottonseed oil which had been hydrogenated though intensive industrial processes and sold as a cheaper alternative to the normal saturated fats used as the time.

I hope you actually look at the links and videos I put up in my previous comment. Your ad hominem attacks against Nina Teicholz, like "I wouldn't trust that lady to tell me what to eat" and "she's a journalist" don't go unnoticed.

I also want to point out her BMJ article was not retracted. The petition signed by 180 scientists was found to be without merit. I do find it telling you bring up the petition, yet you fail to say that article was not retracted.

<comment><AUTHOR> >> Your ad hominem attacks against Nina Teicholz, like "I wouldn't trust that lady to tell me what to eat" and "she's a journalist" don't go unnoticed.

That sounds threatening. Could you please clarify- who is it that noticed and what happens now that they noticed?

<comment><USER22> I am just saying that when you make these kinds of statements to support your arguments, you are not doing yourself any favors. It is the sign of a weak argument. Am I supposed to assume that because Nina is a woman and journalist that she is a liar? I find these type of statements very sexist. As for who noticed, I did.

I am going to give you another video, you really should watch it.

[https://youtu.be/Zc_e5ME_5Cg](https://youtu.be/Zc_e5ME_5Cg)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> I know the majority of those who read that study will either ignore it, dismiss it out of hand, or "study it carefully" and find all sorts of problems with it, the best to convince themselves that it's not conclusive, or that it's badly designed and its results can't be trusted, etc.

The truth is, it is extremely hard to accept that something that directly hits your fabled pleasure centers -like fat, sugar, salt, nicotine, alcohol etc- is so bad for you it's decreasing the time you have to enjoy it. There is an extreme form of denial that seizes the human mind when someone tells you "this thing you really like, it's very bad for you".

Our pleasures are immense sources of bias. Take what your heart desires with, um, a huge pinch of salt and don't listen to the people who tell you salt, fat, sugar, smoking, drinking etc are good for you when this contradicts years of research and hundreds of trials, especialy when the evidence for keeping your dietary habits unchanged is based on a couple of studies with poor practices and few participants.

<comment><USER10> Sorry, but there is really no debate about this study. Their definition of "low-carb" is not the one used by people who are adopting a "low carb" diet, so there is no reason to think their conclusions apply.

<comment><AUTHOR> I think "the people who adopt a low-card diet" would do well to pay attention to a study that reports increased mortality for people who reduced their carbohydrate intake _less_ than they have.

If a moderate reduction of carbohydrates in your diet is bad for you, almost entirely eliminating them does not look very promising.

<comment><USER10> >"If a moderate reduction of carbohydrates in your diet is bad for you, almost entirely eliminating them does not look very promising."

Why?

<comment><AUTHOR> According to the study, because minimal risk was observed at 50-55% carbohydrate intake. So extreme consumption on either end can't be very close to the minimum.

<comment><USER10> >"According to the study, because minimal risk was observed at 50-55% carbohydrate intake. So extreme consumption on either end can't be very close to the minimum."

Your conclusion does not follow from the premise, so there are some additional assumptions you are making somewhere.

<comment><AUTHOR> >> Your conclusion does not follow from the premise (...)

Why not?

<comment><USER10> Because you have provided no reason that it is reasonable to extrapolate the trend from a 50% to 40% carb diet to 5% carb diet.

<comment><AUTHOR> I think it's reasonable to expect that if a small reduction is bad, a big reduction is worse. The opposite is not impossible, but it would be surprising.

<comment><USER10> >"I think it's reasonable to expect that if a small reduction is bad, a big reduction is worse."

As I originally asked: why?

<comment><AUTHOR> Why not?

<comment><USER10> Because wildly speculating and passing judgement on others based on it generally leads to poor outcomes.

<comment><AUTHOR> This is surprising. I didn't think I was passing judgement on anyone, in this thread.

<comment><USER10> >"I think "the people who adopt a low-card diet" would do well to pay attention to a study that reports increased mortality for people who reduced their carbohydrate intake less than they have."

You think the low carb diet people would be mistaken if they dont pay attention to this study that contains no data for low carb diet people at all.

<comment><AUTHOR> I didn't say anything about anyone making any mistakes. If I thought that X people are making a mistake by doing Y, wouldn't it be simpler for me to just say that, rather than say something else that could possibly be interpreted as my saying that?

Now, this _is_ passing judgement and I apologise, but I don't think you replied to the strongest interpretation of what I wrote.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Designer Philippe Starck confirms 'revolutionary' project is Jobs family yacht - <AUTHOR> http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/04/17/designer_philippe_starck_confirms_revolutionary_project_is_jobs_family_yacht.html <comment><USER2> I don't really think this reflects terribly well on Jobs. He makes all that money and what does he do with it? He builds himself a boat.</comment>


The Nature and Art of Workmanship (1968) [pdf] - <AUTHOR> http://www.arts.ucsb.edu/faculty/reese/classes/artistsbooks/davidpye019.pdf

<comment><AUTHOR> I stumbled upon this after googling "workmanship of certainty" / "workmanship of risk", which I was thinking of in relationship to TDD/BDD.</comment>


Face ID in the Era of Wearing Masks - <AUTHOR> https://www.tomsguide.com/news/why-the-iphone-se-is-the-phone-for-the-coronavirus-era <comment><USER2> _The most reliable report we 've seen about a Touch ID returning to Apple's flagship comes from analyst Ming-Chi Kuo, who says that Apple could introduce in-display fingerprint sensors with the iPhones it'll release in 2021._

That would be a killer feature.</comment>


Ask HN: How can we make the world's code discoverable in 10K years? - <AUTHOR> Global extinction level event, all our culture lost, but we want to keep a record of what we were doing. A library of Alexandria built in this age would contain much computer code. How to archive it in a format that's likely to be understood by future civilizations ? <comment><USER2> I don't see the value of saving 'code'. Some algorithms maybe but I do believe the library of Alexandria is about ideas not tools.

<comment><AUTHOR> Minimum description length could be a useful archival principle.

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> An idea is a tool is an idea. Or an idea is a description of a tool. In any case, code is a history of our time. A computed history. It encodes the way we thought about things, reflected in the way we arranged our systems of doing things. There's an argument to be made that it is a highly efficient description -- it might be possible to accurately rebuild a fallen civilization if we could read its computer code. At the very least, we'd have a start on rebuilding its infrastructure. The writings of a time encode its culture, you can rebuild a culture from that. The Renaissance did this with the culture of ancient Greece and Rome. Code is a medium, of today. It works to save that, if we value the preservation of our time.

</comment><comment><USER3> Same way we have records from 10K years ago, by keeping hard copies.

Pull the plug and all e-records become inaccessible.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah, but hard copies on what? Discs, paper, what's the medium with the 10K year time horizon ?

Wait, I got it. Stone Tablets. Just have to get a Google project off the ground to inscribe all the worlds code in slate.

<comment><USER4> Considering all the bits and pieces of plastic we have manufactured will be around on this planet until well after we are gone I would take a guess at saying plastic film would be best.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Bitcoin blockchain!</comment>


What "viable search engine competition" really looks like - <AUTHOR> http://blog.nullspace.io/building-search-engines.html <comment><USER2> I've been very happy using DuckDuckGo ([https://duckduckgo.com](https://duckduckgo.com)) over the last year. I find I need to refer to google for maybe 1% of my searches, usually for specialized technical topics.</comment>


Show HN: A new container platform with builds, provisioning, networking and apps - <AUTHOR> https://www.flockport.com/ <comment><USER2> Looks good - not a knock, but for me I'd like comparisons to see how it does against the existing orchestrators/schedulers. Or at the very least, where it differentiates itself against them. Because choosing a new scheduler over more established ones is quite a risk, imo. I feel you have to sell why we'd take a risk with an unknown _(to me)_ product.

Currently I feel like the site does a great job selling that Flockport has a lot of the fundamentals, in an easy to use package. Great. But I still want more info.

So in concrete terms as an example, how do you differentiate yourself when compared to Nomad?

 _edit: sorry to be typical overly negative HN commentator - I don 't mean to be, I'm just seeking information, and feel the site is a bit lacking to describe that. I appreciate your hard work here :)_

 _edit2_ : Something I love for new software is when they do comparisons, like this: [https://www.nomadproject.io/intro/vs/index.html](https://www.nomadproject.io/intro/vs/index.html)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the feedback. This is far from negative. There is definitely value in comparative docs that lets users get a quick overview, and we will put one together.

However we also want to start new conversations in the community about containers and orchestration and reach users who find existing platforms too complex. And we have put together a lot of content to kindle these discussions.

More technical scrutiny could lead to simplification and lower barriers for both users and developers.

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> We are pleased to preview Flockport with the HN community. Flockport is a new container management platform designed to deliver a lot of functionality and ease of use. We designed this to be simple, it was the core driving force and we hope we have succeeded.

Flockport lets you quickly provision servers and deploy and manage containers across servers, supports overlay networks, distributed storage, service discovery, load balancers and high availability.

Flockport also provides a container build system and an app store. Apps can be deployed cluster wide. We also built in support for rolling out things like databases across clusters. Users can add and remove both database instances and also individual databases cluster wide. There is also similar support for web servers and load balancers builtin.

We are eager to have the community give it a go and get their early feedback and support. For those who do not want to install it there are preinstalled VMs on the downloads page and also screencasts on the resources page.

</comment><comment><USER3> Hasn't Flockport been around for quite awhile I thought?

<comment><AUTHOR> Glad to hear you are aware of Flockport. Flockport was initially conceived as an app store for LXC containers. This was still in the early days of containers when the awareness was just building.

We always wanted to do more and our early vision was for a container management platform that is more accessible and easier to use and now of course we have built out a whole platform that delivers a lot more functionality and capabilities, and hopefully delivers on some of that early vision.</comment></comment>


CowToilet, a Toilet for Cows - <AUTHOR> https://www.hanskamp.nl/en/cowtoilet <comment><USER2> Not sure how this makes a lot of sense commercially. By way of background I work remotely from my family's small cattle farm (we have 225ish head of grass-only fed cattle).

In simple terms, cow piss has a bunch of nitrogen in it which makes the grass grow faster (especially when you have a well developed soil biome).

I watched the video and appreciate that quality engineering went into this product, I just don't get why it would make sense for any farmer who has cows in pasture to invest in this technology, even if it were available at mass- produced-in-Asia prices. More specifically, it's hard to imagine a use case for cow piss that makes it valuable enough that I'm going to spend tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars on machinery to harvest it, at an opportunity cost of less nitrogen going into my fields.

Maybe it makes more sense for feedlots? They get a bunch of nasty health issues going on with their animals living in mucky high-density conditions, so reducing the ammonia in the muck might lower the amount of sores their animals have, or something like that. But taking a step back, I guess I don't get the general wisdom of inventing technology that makes bad practices marginally better on the animals and/or environment.

<comment><USER3> In the "Death of the Family Dairy Farm" article that was on HN the other day, the clear trend was toward CAFO's (Concentrated Animal Feedlot Operations) - aka giant farms.

Along with these, there are really clear environmental impacts as the density of the herd/land is just overwhelming to the point where it's not "cows fertilizing the field" but being legally required to create massive manure lagoons, etc.

What's clever about the cow toilet is that it opens up new options for treatment of both manure and urine.

This is the article from the other day, find "manure lagoon" in it to see all the problems

[https://blog.abevoelker.com/2019-03-06/on-the-death-of-my- fa...](https://blog.abevoelker.com/2019-03-06/on-the-death-of-my-familys- dairy-farm/)

<comment><USER4> There are places where animal manure is being used for the biogas production. The scale of the cesspool in the link is way above any small farm biogas tank, but then there must be better ways to speed up the biological decomposition of the manure. Mixing it with plant material, increasing surface and pumping air i.e.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Eating less meat and dairy also helps solve the ammonia problem.

Plant-rich diets have been identified as a top solution to climate change.

[https://www.drawdown.org/solutions-summary-by- rank](https://www.drawdown.org/solutions-summary-by-rank)

Harvard research found switching away from dairy products to be a _necessary_ contribution to meeting climate change goals:

[https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14693062.2018.1...](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14693062.2018.1528965?af=R&)

<comment><USER6> Or no meat at all! I can't say how much wrong it is to rape cows, steal their kids and after many births kill it. And now someone wants to take them the pleasure to pee whenever they want? WTF is wrong with this guys? Diary farms are a very bad place already...

<comment> toper-centage Killing this cows is probably the best thing farmer's do to them, considering the helish life they live.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> If the urine goes on the field, then the farmer gets to dispose of it for free.

If the urine gets collected in tanks, suddenly it's hazardous liquid waste and very expensive to dispose of. The farmer couldn't just dump it in a river!

Unless a commercial use for cow urine can be found, or laws changed, I can't imagine this product going anywhere.

<comment><USER8> The idea that technology will allow us to keep cows happy and healthy in cramped prison-like conditions seems like incredible hubris.

It seems like a much better solution to this 'problem' is let cows live outdoors and graze on grass.

FDA should mandate that all cows raised in confinement conditions get labeled as "prison beef'.

<comment><USER9> >It seems like a much better solution to this 'problem' is let cows live outdoors and graze on grass.

With the number of cattle on this planet, this would require an insane amount of land.

>FDA should mandate that all cows raised in confinement conditions get labeled as "prison beef'.

I'm sure people would consume less if the simply put slaughter pictures on each piece of meat they buy. Rather than outsource the killing to a third party, which keeps people emotionally detached from the killing of billions of animals every year.

<comment><USER10> > this would require an insane amount of land

Which would constrain consumption, and cause prices to rise. Eventually we might end up at a sustainable amount. If that means most of us can't afford nearly as much, then that is probably _great_ for our future and the planet.

> if the simply put slaughter pictures on each piece of meat they buy

Hmm. Sounds reasonable, except pictures alone didn't do that much to smoking rates. Pricing and eliminating marketing did.

<comment><USER11> Except smoking is actively harmful to your body. Meat is much more controversial. Actually, it's not a controversy at all to many practitioners and doctors promoting a low carb lifestyle. There is a lot of scientific evidence to support eating meat of all kinds being incredibly healthy!

So comparing eating meat to smoking seems pretty ridiculous.

Also if you look at government reports on greenhouse gas emissions animal agriculture only accounts for < 3% of U.S. emissions. It's a factor for sure, but not worth our primary focus imho.

<comment><USER10> Except I am only comparing the effect dramatic pictures had on sales. (Not that much). I'm not equating the two in terms of health or legislation that should be brought forth. Implying I am seems pretty ridiculous. :p

Rising meat prices, for whatever reason, would tend to reduce consumption.

<comment><USER11> It depends on the type of marketing those pictures were. Pictures used in anti-smoking campaigns were of the humans consuming them and the related health issues that ensued. They weren't of manufacturing cigarettes.

If you showed a bunch of in shape healthy people on low carb diets I'm not sure that would cause meat sales to decline.

If you mean slaughter, well maybe it would have an effect on sales, maybe it wouldn't. But it's not comparable to the anti-smoking ads.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> > "Once located, the nerve, which triggers the urinary reflex, is stimulated > and the cow starts urinating. ... The visit to the toilet is combined with > the receival[sic] of their daily portion of feed."

May be stretching the definition of voluntary.

<comment><USER13> Yeah, using the word voluntary is disingenuous. I'd be interested to see third-party research to determine if there's a developed preference, where both options are provided to cows - two different physical locations that they are both introduced to, and see if they're indifferent or if a percentage prefers one or the other.

<comment><USER14> Cows have learned to voluntarily (genuinely) use automatic milking machines.

(Now, apparently they like it because of the relief it provides to their swollen udders, which are swollen thanks to the hormonal state they are kept in, but still...)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Very disappointed they didn't call this a "moo loo".

<comment><USER16> you should consider a career in marketing!

<comment><USER17> Cows don't have much purchasing power, so you are wrong.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> I really like the design of the product logo: [https://www.hanskamp.nl/uploads/webshop/products/2019/jan/ha...](https://www.hanskamp.nl/uploads/webshop/products/2019/jan/hanskampcowtoiletlogodef_25.png)

For some reason, it's oddly satisfying to see two concepts merge into one cohesive logo.

<comment><USER19> I have the exact opposite feeling. Connecting head with toilet feels somehow wrong and I don't really feel comfortable looking at the logo. Also the "recycling-ears" feels like unnecessary addition to main concept of unholy merge of cow with toilet.

<comment><USER20> a "golden cow" so to speak?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> > Noteworthy is that cows visit the CowToilet voluntarily. The visit to the > toilet is combined with the receival of their daily portion of feed.

"Voluntarily"... right

<comment><USER22> I guess it is roughly true, in the same way that employment is voluntary.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> People in India drink cow urine. It's considered holy and healthy.. Google "why indians drink cow urine".

<comment><USER24> *Some people in India

<comment><USER25> OP didn't say "all people in India" so your correction isn't at all necessary or helpful.

<comment><USER26> It's an understandable correction though. For instance, if one were to say "People in the US are are Nazis" you can be certain many people would argue that a correction is both necessary and helpful.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> For me, it's really sad to see animals in that high density scenario as shown in the video. I'm not a plant based eater but I do feel myself getting pulled in that direction as time goes by.

<comment> toper-centage I want everyone to go vegan, but I'm pragmatic and can recognize it's a life changing choice. But eating vegan 2-3 days a week is already a healthy step for you and you'll be saving 100+ animals per year from this kind of treatment. (source: [http://thevegancalculator.com/#calculator](http://thevegancalculator.com/#calculator))

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> This just makes me want to consume dairy/meat less, and I'm an omnivore.

<comment><USER29> Technically vegans are omnivores, too: being an omnivore means you are able to consume both plants and animals. Humans as a species are omnivores. _Choosing_ to consume animal products is something else. I had always considered being an omnivore exclusive from being a vegan but I didn't have a good answer for lack of symmetry between a diet I am _capable_ of eating and the diet I _do_ eat. The "vegan" word for it is Carnism [1].

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnism)

<comment><USER30> Humans are frugivores, you got your whole history/life concepts wrong.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> I think it is great that people are working on solving problems like this. As a feed stock for other processes I'm guessing that the big win here would be use in a modified Haber process to produce bulk Ammonia which is used in a number of chemical plants.

</comment><comment> cw-dunn My husband sent this to me.

We had a small Jersey house cow,years ago, with only 1 ac to graze and 1/4 ac veg garden, that one cow produced more nutrient load than the land could absorb... composted before (there by reducing volume) spreading. Friends with a real dairy herd had 150 acres to use, and even they had a problem using it all.

This device is brilliant for the larger milk producers, and even a small New England Herds kept inside for the winter. Even a few hours eating in the atanchion barn leaves a lot of waste. To be able to collect and redirect this urine is solving Many problems on many levels. It makes a world of Common Sense to Me.

As to the manure waste, many country's burn dry dung, and the clever folks who designed 'Cow Pots', have redirected manure in a beneficial way.

In Africa they still 'pave' the floors with cow dung and seal it with blood. It wouldn't be a Martha Stewart approved design here, but certainly dried dung (mostly odorless cellulose) could be added to wood chips and made into bricks for fuel.

I think the Cow Toilet is a practical device and hope it will be affordable to any dairy that wants to implement it.

As for feed lots like the escresent ones in Coilinga CA.& elsewhere, be they Bovine or Porcine, or poultry; understand that the rules on the books need to be Enforced, and the graft/lobbyist elements removed. They'd get cleaned up or shut down darn fast without the greedy business machinery supporting them in government hallways.

A restoration farmers point of view from seven decades looking at life

</comment><comment><USER32> I'm not sure this makes any kind of sense actually. My girlfriend, who is a biologist and works at a waste water treatment plant, tells me the ammonia from (cow out any other kind of) urine isn't really that much of a problem. There are other components that might be (mostly residues from various medicines, but those are hard to separate from the water) but according to her, ammonia is essentially less of a problem than the erosion caused by the cows walking on the ground in most cases.

<comment><AUTHOR> These cows typically don't walk on ground; they walk on a floor in a stable, and ammonia is a problem in the Netherlands, if only because the EU has set sets national emission reduction commitments ([https://www.eea.europa.eu/themes/air/national-emission- ceili...](https://www.eea.europa.eu/themes/air/national-emission- ceilings/national-emission-ceilings-directive)), and cattle farms are a major source of ammonia.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> So now we're going to force them to pee by stimulating their urinary nerves!?

Another reason to stop our inhumane practice of enslaving, raping, and slaughtering cows to serve our tastes. We don't need to do this to have nutritious healthy lives.

<comment><USER34> > Another reason to stop our inhumane practice of enslaving, raping, and > slaughtering cows to serve our tastes.

Do a lot of people really rape cows..?

<comment><USER33> Only cows that have been pregnant produce milk. Cows are made pregnant to increase the duration of milk production, and to produce more cows for dairy or meat. (Edited for clarity)

The process of artificial insemination involves sticking a rod/hand with bull semen into their vaginas. Just do a quick search for this and you can see videos of how artificial insemination works. There's also a process of hormone injections to ensure cows sync up for more efficient AI.

Usually most farmers justify this by talking about how it's safer than letting a bull fuck the cow while it's confined to a pen (how it was done in a bygone era).

Oh, and if you're wondering about how they get the bull semen they have them fuck artificial vaginas, or masturbate them if that's not working out.

<comment><USER35> >Only pregnant cows produce milk. Not true, a cow will produce milk many months after she gives birth.

Cows naturally get into heat, the behavior of the cow changes, she will start jumping on other cows and it is dangerous to be around it, you have to bring a bull or have it inseminated.

I know this because I was raised at a low tech farm, I am not aware of procedures or reasons to make a cow get pregnant more often but maybe this exists somewhere, if this was true probably it would be used for getting more meat not more milk,

Anyway there is no rape involved, if is artificial inseminated then it is a medical procedure, similar how fixing cows birth problems that involved doctors pushing their full arms in the cow is a medical procedure to save the cow.

<comment><USER36> Any medical procedure without a consent is an assault. Then again sometimes consent can be inferred...

<comment><USER35> Are you sure on ANY? how do you get consent from your pet to treat it?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> What about capturing methane from cows? Isn't that arguably bigger problem? Cows emit an enormous amount of methane which is a much more potent greenhouse gas than CO2.

<comment><USER38> Careful with the whataboutism. Methane's largely been solved by food additives that discourage methanogenic bacteria. We're talking about urine and ammonia right now.

Methane is more potent as a greenhouse gas, but it's shorter-lived, way less of a contributor to global warming than CO2, and doesn't appear to have anywhere near as much impact on the health or growth of animals or plants as heightened CO2 levels do.

<comment><USER39> Solved, but not implemented on a wide scale. I don't know if it's the added cost, availability or what else, but solved problems aren't really solved if the solution is never implemented.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> > Urine as a businessmodel

lol ... I think this is enough internet for today

<comment><USER41> The video was so serious, but the 7 year old deep inside of me was just laughing the whole way through. I wonder if they realized the absurdity of this as they were making the marketing materials.

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> This partly addresses problems pointed out a few days ago in this: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19368542](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19368542)

It's neat when that happens on HN.

</comment><comment><USER43> That's extremely cool. It serves a need and apparently (according to their description) it actually works and the cows will use it.

 _(And obviously not needed for free-range grass-fed cows as opposed to congested feed lot cows.)_

</comment><comment><USER44> I understood the concept, after he made the cow pee with his hand within 10 seconds of stroking her slowly and tenderly.

</comment><comment> toper-centage They call it "voluntary" then say the creepy machine locates a nerve in the cows rear and stimulates it to induce urination. Nothing voluntary about forced urination... But these are animals routinely force-impregnated so maybe they're used to be abused.

</comment><comment><USER45> Is there a bull toilet?

<comment><USER46> "Cow" includes bulls, heifers and steer.

<comment><USER47> That might be something that varies regionally.

In the usage I'm familiar with, "cow" specifically means a female who has given birth. As opposed to heifers, who haven't. The general term for any member of the species would be cattle (both singular and plural). You might use "cows" to more generally mean any female cattle, but using it to include males of the species, too, would be understood as humorous.

<comment><USER46> What is your source for this information? I have worked with meat for years and have never heard anyone react with humor to steers or bulls being referred to as cows. Go into a butcher shop and ask where their cows are raised and they will answer you without hesitation. Ask them without using the word and they will readily refer to beef as having come from a cow.

EDIT: Even googling "beef cows" provides a wealth of contradictions to your statement.

<comment><USER47> My source for this information is how the language is spoken among members of my social circle. Which admittedly doesn't include any butchers, just dairy farmers. Maybe our social circles are different. That's regional variation for you.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER48> Get it to India. Huge potential market!

</comment><comment><USER49> From the inventor of the Moth Ladder.

</comment><comment><USER50> The product video shows the device working... after it shows a guy doing the same thing manually.

</comment><comment><USER51> Outside the box thinking!

</comment><comment><USER52> Now just make bottled water from cow urine and profit.

</comment><comment><USER53> I thought it was going to turn out to be a new copy-on-write zero-day given the name.

<comment><USER54> The vulgar cousin of Heartbleed and Meltdown.

</comment></comment><comment><USER55> Most of cow's methane comes from his mouth, not the other side.

<comment><USER56> Not sure why this is being downvoted. I am not sure even ammonia is even a problem to start according to the top comment here

</comment></comment><comment><USER57> "cow friendly" whilst showing a picture of a cow in a cage. Fuck dairy.

<comment><USER58> Picture any human on a toilet and it'll effectively also be a "human in a cage". What's the difference?

<comment><USER59> To an outsider, the metal bars remind of both human jails and stacked chicken cages.

It's not easy to realize that they have to look like jail cell bars in order to avoid being damaged by the cow, and it's not well-known that cows are taught to enter metal frames for food and such to let human work on and around them occur more safely.

Humans don't as often need metal bars to avoid knocking the bathroom walls down, but when we need metal bars for support (ADA bathrooms), they look a lot like the cow bars.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER60> I love our society. Always chasing after solutions to things that aren't really problems. Ban straws. Ban glasses of water. Ban cow pee. Forget that none of those things here make any material difference.

<comment><USER5> Single-use plastics is a big problem. It gets solved by chipping away it from a lot of different angles. Plastic straws are one piece of the problem.

My family loves straws and brings steel straws when we go out. No big deal. No one is banning steel straws.

The only hit I get when I search for "ban glasses of water" is this post. Perhaps you referring to bottled water? That's another piece of the single-use plastics problem.

Shifting away animal agriculture is one the top solutions for climate change ( [https://www.drawdown.org/solutions-summary-by- rank](https://www.drawdown.org/solutions-summary-by-rank) ). So yes, cows and all their poop and pee are a very real problem. I don't think moving the piss around differently is nearly as a good solution as breeding and killing fewer cows, though!

<comment><USER61> > The only hit I get when I search for "ban glasses of water" is this post.

Used to be when you went to a restaurant they would automatically bring a glass of water to your table. Then "they" decided this was a bad thing so now you have to specifically ask for water if you want water.

<comment><USER39> I go out to eat at least twice a week, and I've never run into this. It sounds like the Daily Mail fed Grandpa Simpson LSD and wrote down whatever he mumbled.

<comment><USER62> I live in the 8% of california that just recently went from "drought" to "abnormally dry" and water only upon request is normal here.

<comment><USER39> Fair enough, but that's just one state out of fifty, and in the context of a wider world as well.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER63> Wait why is this here?

<comment><USER64> It's a new invention/technology, it has potential impact on our environment, and it's interesting.

</comment></comment><comment><USER65> This is such a shitty product. (/s)

Edit: okay, clearly someone didn't get the pun.

<comment><USER66> They're just being pissy.

<comment><USER67> urinit to deep</comment></comment></comment>


Over 30? You're Too Old for Tech Jobs in China - <AUTHOR> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-05-02/china-s-tech-industry-wants-youth-not-experience <comment><USER2> Link is a forwarding link to:

[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-05-02/china- s-t...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-05-02/china-s-tech- industry-wants-youth-not-experience)

<comment><USER3> Thanks! Changed from [http://api.digg.com/api/v5/redirect?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bl...](http://api.digg.com/api/v5/redirect?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bloomberg.com%2Fnews%2Ffeatures%2F2018-05-02%2Fchina- s-tech-industry-wants-youth-not- experience&position=6&content_id=2I66taD&source=homepage.top_stories).</comment></comment>


DeLorean: Using Speculation to Enable Low-Latency Interaction for Cloud Gaming - <AUTHOR> http://research.microsoft.com/apps/pubs/default.aspx?id=226843 <comment><USER2> For those who want to try it out, some binaries and videos are found here: [https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=611c3830c430d4e3&id=611C3830C...](https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=611c3830c430d4e3&id=611C3830C430D4E3%21107&ithint=folder,.txt&authkey=!AHF5kvrCruH0BrI)

The user perception results are very impressive - round trip times of 250ms were not significantly noticeably different from the control fat client system.

<comment><USER3> Not just user perception - they did have some objective measures as well, such as the amount of health lost whilst completing a task, and the amount of time taken to complete a task. Even these objective measures came back as showing no significant difference between DeLorean and the fat client. _That 's_ impressive.

<comment><USER4> It _is_ very impressive. If you think about it though, you realize there's not limit to how good this scheme can be (for singleplayer) -- the limitation is essentially the bandwidth. Now the impressive part is that they can adapt to bandwidth conditions and do it all while keeping the premise of required computations < mobile capacity << actual game.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Silly thought: What if the universe actually works like this? Instead of actually calculating the full interaction of all particles, it just optimizes by speculating.

<comment><USER6> The universe is very strongly distributed, it doesn't have such problems

<comment><USER7> Entanglement.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> One of the current annoyances of the oculus rift is that it requires a cable that restricts freedom of movement... I'd bet dollars to donuts a big part of the Oculus development effort right now is going specifically towards these kinds of "prediction" algos so that a more low-powered PC with a battery can reside in the helmet, which can communicate with a custom low-latency wireless network to a "base station" that holds most of the GPU horsepower.

I think a lot of software innovation is still possible that will allow a VR headset to mask maybe a 50ms delay (smaller than in OP) with advanced algos, allowing you to get photorealistic, real-time graphics through low-power hardware that fits in the headset.

<comment><USER9> A few times John Carmack has mentioned that they are working with Android. I think they've given up wireless networks and are simply waiting for the hardware to shrink to the point where you can embed the computer in the Rift.

<comment><USER10> The new rift literally uses the complete front panel from a Galaxy Note III. Complete with (unused) touch sensors and connectors.

[https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Oculus+Rift+Development+Kit+...](https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Oculus+Rift+Development+Kit+2+Teardown/27613)

<comment><USER9> I was specifically talking about GPU/SoCs on the Rift rather than connecting it to a PC.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Edited: Nm

Having read the article, I'm still very sceptical of the feel for games that receive a high frequency of user input. It's precisely when a sudden, radical change in input is made that lag is most noticeable from my experience. I'm also curious about the extra resource requirements when it comes to physics of which many modern games are heavily reliant. That being after actually successfully modifying a the physics system on a game engine you'd actually want to use to be able to support such a technique..

All of the methods and applications mentioned are really cool, but I'm still EXTREMELY sceptical of practical "cloud" gaming.

<comment><USER12> I was just going to mention the physics engine aspect of it.

I saw this in miniature a couple of years ago, when I was experimenting with real-time gaming using web technologies (I know, I know, TCP), but one blocker for low-hanging-fruit projects is that to get a good experience you need client-side prediction, but then it's very hard to get anything like that and also use a pre-existing physics engine.

The real problem is: I'm a wuss.

Client-side prediction seems like magic to me, and has hurt my head every time I've programmed it, and it goes right back to seeming like magic when I've written it, and I never feel entirely certain that I'm on solid ground.

I always come away with the impression that networked physics is hardcore, and I don't have enough chest hair to deal with it. :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> I wrote about some related ideas on my blog earlier this year.

[http://0fps.net/2014/02/26/replication-in-networked-games- sp...](http://0fps.net/2014/02/26/replication-in-networked-games-spacetime- consistency-part-3/)

You can do quite a bit of latency hiding without even having to speculatively predict things by just shifting the rendered state of the world in time.

<comment><USER14> You can't shift the rendered state without prediction if it's an interactive experience without prediction or rendering parallel pathways because computational bandwidth makes exploring the narrowed state space more efficient than waiting on RTT for interactivity...

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> One cheap way of reducing lag where fast mouse movements are done, would be to render a much wider view, send the entire image to the client and then client uses the appropriate segment based on the latest mouse position.

At downvoter: Why would you downvote a suggestion that is on topic?

<comment><USER16> This would work for 2D games, but 3D projection doesn't allow this. Furthermore in a 3D game there are more than two degrees of freedom.

<comment><USER17> You can render the images on the sides of a cube with 90° fov, put your viewpoint in the center and that's it. Once I programmed something like this and it works pretty well. I suppose that Google street view works in a similar way but I can't back this up.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> I'm really confused by the Android bashing in the introduction of the article.

> platform compatibility headaches and per-platform performance tuning [35, > 30, 24].

That seems a bit biased, doesn't it?

<comment><USER19> Did you miss that this article was published by Microsoft Research?

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> the quake engine and moreso the mod called "unlagged" had a version of this.

they would try to infer what an object's motion would be a few frames ahead of what's coming in from the network. the clients (iirc) would only correct what's in the scene graph if the server disagreed. unlagged was a super aggressive version of this that let other clients be the deciding factor. it was especially useful (or frustrating) for instagib over bad connections.

</comment><comment><USER21> Err, how can they call it that?

DeLorean is still trademarked; I know it's a different industry but I imagine considering the inference about the relevance of time to the software and the brand association with time that no lawyer would have approved that.

[http://delorean.com/](http://delorean.com/)

Also I'm pretty sure a lot of games such as FPSs already do this with direction of motion etc and have done for many many years. John Carmack definitely implemented a long time ago amongst similar techniques such as latency prediction. The only difference here is the location of the rendering.

[http://gafferongames.com/networking-for-game- programmers/wha...](http://gafferongames.com/networking-for-game- programmers/what-every-programmer-needs-to-know-about-game-networking/)

> _am now allowing the client to guess at the results of the users movement > until the authoritative response from the server comes through. This is a > biiiig architectural change. The client now needs to know about solidity of > objects, friction, gravity, etc. I am sad to see the elegant client-as- > terminal setup go away, but I am practical above idealistic._

 _edit_ , instead of downvoting please engage in a discussion. This place is turning into reddit.

<comment><USER22> Trademarks are made within certain categories. [http://www.legalzoom.com/trademarks-glossary/trademark- class...](http://www.legalzoom.com/trademarks-glossary/trademark-class- classification.html) That's why Apple Computer didn't conflict with Apple Corps record company until they started selling music.

Anyway, I'm not sure the word "DeLorean" was ever trademarked. By 2008 most related trademarks had been abandoned [http://www.deloreanmotorcar.com/dmc/tmarks.htm](http://www.deloreanmotorcar.com/dmc/tmarks.htm) and I can't find anything in a quick USPTO search now.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> interesting that they should use an id game, doom3, because quakeworld implemented something similar:

from [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuakeWorld](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuakeWorld) :

QuakeWorld's most important feature is its rewritten networking code (for client-side player prediction and delta compression). Player prediction allowed QuakeWorld clients to compensate for high latency, thus allowing dialup users to move around in the virtual world without being affected by the disorienting effects of latency. This helped Quake network play reach an additional market, as opposed to those who had LAN or broadband connections at the time.

<comment><USER24> This is completely different. Every networked multiplayer FPS since QuakeWorld uses QuakeWorld's player input client-side prediction algorithm. This speculative prediction is _predicting player input before the player gives it_ , not _predicting the server 's response to given input_.

<comment><USER4> Well it's essentially the same algorithm on a different side. FPS _clients_ predict the server state and here it's the _server_ predicting client state. The methods to predict/deal with prediction error/etc are directly applicable to both.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> This is not really new stuff (but good to see nevertheless). Search youtube for hitbox lag compensation (particularly in "Source" games like tf2).

<comment><USER26> Read the paper. It's not what you think it is.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> There are some games this will simply not work for, like fighting games, where even the delay caused by the LCD rendering each frame is noticeable. The ADC in the LCD is either too slow or has too much processing happening. Many hardcore fighting game fans prefer CRTs due to this.

There is no cure for latency. The network is physical. Instead of trying to abstract it away in a library and assume lag doesn't exist, it should be designed for in the application. The last time Microsoft abstracted the network away, we ended up with asp.net WebForms.

<comment><USER28> Assuming infinite bandwidth and rendering speed:

It sounds like, for a connection of latency L, at time T-2L, the server sends to the client multiple fully rendered frames, each representing the render state for time T for every possible user input that could occur between T-2L and T. The client receives these frames at time T-L, while sending a user input state at T-L which the server will use for a future packs of images. At time T, the client chooses the frame to display based on the actual input the user performed at time T, discarding the rest, and the server receives the user's input from time T-L, using it to render and send the next pack of images for time T+2L.

So while it is strictly true that latency is impossible to avoid for the first two rendered frames, that's only a small fraction of a second and only at the very beginning. After that it's eliminated. Now obviously, rendering speed and bandwidth change the equation and is probably why there is a limit to the latency it can correct for. But this does appear to be a cure for _interframe_ latency.

It's lazy tree culling of every render state at every point in time for every conceivable user input state at that time. It's certainly a big tree, but it seems they are making the statement that it's small enough to fit in modern bandwidth capacities.

Of course, you wouldn't be able to use this in your fighting game example to counteract the relative slow speed of the LCD, but that is because there would be no way to cull the set of images at the LCD itself.

<comment><USER27> It's very similar to branch prediction in modern cpu architectures. Branches are expensive, so both sides are executed. It is a good idea, and I'm wrong for my remark equating any of this to webforms.

I believe we have a lot we could do to make latency lower, and effort should be focused there. Branch prediction would not be necessary if branching were cheap. This latency prediction system would not be necessary either if latency was low, but it's not. Our hardware sucks. All of the layers of software suck. OculusVR is a testament to how much room for improvement there is in regards to latency.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> or you could, you know, render CLIENT SIDE? and OWN the game instead of borrowing it from the cloud?</comment>


A conversation with Nassim Taleb - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P71YUXLNveE

<comment><USER2> Can't stop wondering what the next improbable "black swan" will be. The discovery of aliens or some the other unknown unknowns?</comment>


Machine vision that sees things more the way we do is easier for us to grasp - <AUTHOR> https://www.technologyreview.com/f/614870/ai-machine-vision-interpretable/ <comment><USER2> Paper from the article:

[https://arxiv.org/pdf/1806.10574.pdf](https://arxiv.org/pdf/1806.10574.pdf)</comment>


How to find the right Jekyll Themes - <AUTHOR> I'm trying to find some minimal jekyll themes for my academic blog. I'm currently using https://jekyllthemes.org and https://jekyll-themes.com The latter has a good search option but not a great collection. Is there any other place where I can find good Jekyll themes? <comment><USER2> You can search right away on GitHub, you will find some (good) themes that are not listed in the directories you mentioned.

<comment><USER2> also: [https://rubygems.org/search?query=jekyll+theme](https://rubygems.org/search?query=jekyll+theme)</comment></comment>