Ask HN: Where do you find new music to listen to online? - <AUTHOR> I feel like I'm missing the boat in terms of places online to find new music to listen to. What are some good websites to explore music? <comment><USER2> Bandcamp. It's awesome for discovering new music.

I love exploring weird micro-genres while working, so the discover feature can keep me going for days while going deep into a particular style. 19A0s dreamwave, vaportrap, Chinese traditional vs dubstep, baroquecore - it's all there!

Neither Spotify or Apple Music allow searches by deep genre tags - 'electronic' is not enough - or by record label, which is frustrating as I often want to explore other artists on the same label. For example, listening to the entire Ghost Box back catalogue.

<comment><USER3> You actually can search Spotify by record label, but it's super unintuitive and I can't remember how to do it. Maybe give their docs a quick search? It's basically a hidden feature.

 _edit:_ ok maybe not so unintuitive after all, try

label:"ghost box"

then look at the albums.

<comment><USER4> You can also filter by additional metadata, like year:2019 - I often use that to narrow the results for very large labels down to more recent releases.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Currently Wikipedia. I discovered it when I started off with 1970s American composers like Philip Glass, Steve Reich and Jon Gibson. Reading through their entries I fell down a rabbit hole that led to some really great early modular synth musicians like Laurie Spiegel, Mother Mallard's Portable Masterpiece Orchestra and Tonto's Expanding Head Band.

Wikipedia is also where I _finally_ caught up with Robert Wyatt, who I totally fell in love with, particularly Nothing Can Stop Us which has a wonderful cover version of At Last I Am Free by Chic.

It's a great place to find side projects too, like the eponymous album by Klark Kent, an early alter-ego of Stewart Copeland, the drummer from The Police.

In terms of more recent stuff, mostly my Spotify Friends Activity feed. I follow a few people whose taste I really enjoy, and they're constantly coming up with good stuff. I find the auto-generated lists by Spotify are either mediocre - where I feel like I'm just being pandered to - or simply bizarre.

Edit: Matt Sweeney also posts good stuff on Twitter - [https://twitter.com/theheavyjamz](https://twitter.com/theheavyjamz)

</comment><comment><USER6> Discogs, RateYourMusic, Wikipedia, occasionally online publications.

New music is not limited to contemporary releases; at this point we have a vast wealth of musical history available to us, with detailed primary and secondary information constantly being added to online indices.

It can be overwhelming. Streaming services provide a convenient solution to this problem, but lack context (and often content).

The growing archive demands we build a narrative. Think of your favourite artists; who were their influences, contemporaries, collaborators? All of this information is readily accessible. Look for side projects, collaborations, interviews, and retrospective articles. Context provides innumerable clues for where to go next. A few clicks and you can find yourself in new worlds, but also understand something of how you arrived there. A small selection of well- researched artists can blossom into a constellation given time, and new music will appear in multitudes.

</comment><comment><USER7> Spotify.

Their "Discover more artists." / "Fans also like." feature has provided me with quite a few interesting bands I didn't know before.

Their curated genre playlists are fantastic as well.

I mostly listen to progressive metal / progressive rock and occasionally some electronic music, too.

Their algorithms and curated content work well even for those not-exactly- mainstream genres.

<comment><USER5> That hardly ever works for me. It's either "here's another artist that's like these ones, only more mediocre" or completely crazy ones, like a playlist of the album Ilana (The Creator) by Mdou Moctar, a Berber electric guitarist, where Spotify recommendations are all for Tyler The Creator.

<comment><USER8> You should check out Tinariwen [https://youtu.be/WcqlOq1cjjc](https://youtu.be/WcqlOq1cjjc)

<comment><USER9> I really recommend Aza (Tamazight influence from the Atlas Mountains of Morocco). I've seen them live a bunch of times. (I attended this particular performance!)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C1u_MFahhw&list=RDuvS_fSfW2...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C1u_MFahhw&list=RDuvS_fSfW2Zo&index=3)

[http://azamusic.com](http://azamusic.com)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> RateYourMusic (you can see "top" charts of any genre rated by users of the site collectively, or find user-made lists) and 4chan's /mu/ board (chart threads). There's a lot of new stuff on Bandcamp that's worth checking out, but it means you miss out on older stuff and the things that define genres.

Example: top rated neo-soul albums by RYM users [https://rateyourmusic.com/customchart?page=1&chart_type=top&...](https://rateyourmusic.com/customchart?page=1&chart_type=top&type=album&year=alltime&genre_include=1&include_child_genres=1&genres=neo- soul&include_child_genres_chk=1&include=both&origin_countries=&limit=none&countries=)

Note that on every album you'll find some user-made lists along the side, which can point you to more esoteric/obscure recommendations.

As for obtaining it, you can either buy it from Amazon/ebay/wherever, search Discogs marketplace or pirate it (Soulseek, RED).

</comment><comment><USER11> I find Spotify's discover weekly to be great for this.

</comment><comment><USER12> YouTube with auto play turned on. Play one song you like, and more of the same genre will usually follow. YouTube has a lot of good music that isn't available on music sites such as Spotify.

<comment><USER13> Youtube runs into islands. After a point, you are stuck in some domain of music and music starts repeating. Next time I sample a song, it very quickly progresses to songs I know and I'm back in that same island.

In my opinion, it needs a "discover" setting in autoplay where it amps up discovery and reduces chances of reaching songs I know.

<comment><USER12> I can usually go a whole afternoon without songs being repeated, unless I manually choose a new song. Then I sort of end up back in the same playlist all over again. But if it were not for YouTube, there are so many good songs I would have never heard.

<comment><USER13> Oh, I agree with you! I know a lot of music only courtesy of youtube, but I can't explore the neighboring region of those songs I've repeated a number of times. Maybe it's just in how I discover in a very narrow music domain, I don't know.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> If you use spotify and like skipping through tracks and albums this is amazing:

[https://discoverquickly.com/](https://discoverquickly.com/)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for this. I'm currently a Spotify subscriber but just discovered Tidal which has better sound quality supposedly.

<comment><USER14> did you do AB testing on music quality? I think if you set the HQ toggle in spotify it's really alright.

I was able to differentiate 320 mp3 to wav, but only for one song (gorillaz - clint eastwood) and I couldn't say one sounded better than the other.

<comment><AUTHOR> Funny that you should mention that song. That's of the ones I'm using to test! Another is "Angel" by Massive Attack. I think both are decent for testing lower frequencies.

I have the premium version of Spotify and have streaming quality set to the highest setting, "Very High" and I definitely notice a difference. Not sure what you mean by HQ toggle.

So far, I've compared to Qobuz and Tidal in terms of quality. Spotify beats them both in terms of interface and discovering new music.

<comment><USER14> that's exactly what I meant - "very high".

I was also really surprised it's the lows, not the highs where I can hear it (maybe I'm just getting old...). Just a bit more punchy and clean :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> [https://hypem.com/](https://hypem.com/) \- its a website that aggregates new music from music blogs.

</comment><comment><USER16> bandcamp. it's turned into a bit of a community, and you can rest assured that sales go to the releasing entity (8% bandcamp fee.) as well as not shunting sales into low-return streaming.

I use it both for my musical releases and for finding new music across the spectrum.

The entities putting music on there are largely the ones making it, not some corporate entities that don't have time for fans... (itunes, spotify, all the other corporate rarified sales channels that require consolidators for even underground labels, and never deign to directly work with lowly artists LOL)

<comment><USER17> Bandcamp heartily seconded.

I like listening to their Bandcamp Weekly, a pseudo-radio show that highlights new releases. It's not as diverse as Bandcamp itself, as the DJ seems to be mostly into hybrid jazz/ambient/hiphop/world, but if you like that sort of thing, you should definitely take a listen.

I also try to go see live music as much as I can, as I often find favorite artists who are opening for the band I went to see.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> I used Spotify for a while but was never happy with their discover playlists. When Apple Music came out I used the trial to see if their discover (New For You) playlists was better. It's far from perfect but I found it better than Spotify.

I also live in an area with absolutely garbage local radio stations and a lot of cell phone dead areas so I have SiriusXM. You have to stay away from the pop channels (including the decade-specific channels and popular rock/hip hop channels) but on the fringe channels you can find some interesting music. From the app you can pivot what you've found into a Pandora playlist.

SomaFM is also pretty good beyond their more popular ambient playlists.

</comment><comment><USER19> I love the playlists that Spotify Personalizes. It compartmentalizes your tastes into 5 or 6 playlists and then puts in a few other songs on that vibe

Also, just letting youtube autoplay (which despite me never listening to Beck, always seems to take me to Beck)

</comment><comment><USER20> Not what it once was, but 8tracks still has lots of good genre-tagged playlists: [https://8tracks.com/](https://8tracks.com/)

Also Spotify and YouTube.

<comment><USER21> 8tracks was by far the best music discovery experience I had. Curated playlists, mostly less well known artists (or before they become popular), tagged by moods, very easy to find something you'd like to listen to at any given time. I've discovered a lot of music I like through 8tracks.

I also find human curated mood tags to be more representative than "genre" labels.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> Pandora is still really good with recommendations, even for niche stuff (like specific genres of prog)

</comment><comment><USER23> Not sure if this will help, and depends what you mean _new_...but SugarMegs is an incredible music site for downloading bootlegs–unreleased concert recordings–that not many people seem to know about. It seems mainly rock, but has enormous amount of jazz, blues, and all kinds of stuff, up to 2019. e.g. I searched "Jimi Hendrix 1968" and it has about 50 complete concerts! Setlist pages too, often with stories and info about the recordings. Be prepared to lose a few days of your life. Search page:

[http://tela.sugarmegs.org/](http://tela.sugarmegs.org/)

If you find something on there you love, maybe sign up[0] to the private torrent site DIME which has all that and more at the highest possible quality, audio and video. (SugarMegs is audio only, and the quality is fine, but not lossless) Everything on SugarMegs is from there.

[http://www.dimeadozen.org/index.php](http://www.dimeadozen.org/index.php)

p.s. If you find incomplete/incorrect info in set listings on SugarMegs, please send an improved html setlist page to them, they'll be grateful. I'm not affiliated, just think it's an incredibly cool site. I've found so many gems on there.

[0] Not so easy, not so hard. Then you have to keep a torrent download:upload ratio lower than 5:1 to download, so don't just download a huge file no-one else wants first up, or you will be stuck unable to get anything else. And membership is deleted after I think 2 months of inactivity.

</comment><comment><USER24> I outsource this job to the top world DJs. Namely - I usually listen to some type of electronic music (EDM sub-genres, trance, etc.), so the last few years I've been listening to the radio shows of the top producers and djs (in a format of podcasts). That gives me a steady stream of the newest and hottest songs that have been unearthed and hand picked by experienced djs.

</comment><comment><USER25> Aside from community radio stations and major sites like Spotify, you could try looking through slices of the record industry yourself. There's a big list of record labels on Wikipedia that you could read through[0]. They've also sorted by genre if you want to try a more targeted search[1]. Most decent labels will have a big list of signed artists and events going on.

It's been fun getting to know some of the record labels and listening through full albums. If you type in an artist name in YouTube they usually have most of the albums to sample. I've found lots of good artists this way :D

[0][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_record_labels](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_record_labels)

[1][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Record_labels_by_genr...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Record_labels_by_genre)

</comment><comment><USER26> [https://last.fm](https://last.fm)

It's one of the oldest music services on the internet, being around since the early 00s. It changed a lot over time, but survived.

Nowadays, as a paying subscriber you can link your Spotify account and listen to your personal recommendations on any device supporting Spotify Connect.

<comment><USER27> And last.fm similar artists is i a huge gold mine of fantastic music. EDIT spelling

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> I used to say DCPP (for others I suppose BitTorrent), but it requires connections, effort, and nowadays streaming is hype, and it works.

If you want to spend minimal effort the suggestions by Spotify (just keep on playing, or select one of the 6 lists) can be good. Also, if you like an artist on Spotify, you see on the right some related artists.

YouTube has this feature as well, but make no mistake: YouTube Autoplay is garbage compared to Spotify's. Why? YouTube's too broad, and it spams you. For Spotify you get locked in a subset of genres based on your playlist. I share Spotify with my family (partner and daughter). We all have different preferences, and this is reflected in different lists.

Do note that Spotify saves _everything_ you do there (as was in the news the other day). As does YouTube. If you desire privacy, use an offline solution.

</comment><comment><USER29> Internet radio, especially college stations. They have the most eclectic playlists and will range from standards to songs released 10 minutes ago.

The NPR All Songs Considered podcasts can also have interesting music finds, especially when they do themed shows.

<comment><USER30> Ditto... for college stations with real DJs.

Feed URLs source (searchable; includes genres, bitrates, station URLs, location, status): [http://www.radio-browser.info/gui/#!/](http://www.radio- browser.info/gui/#!/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> Weirdly, I've found TV shows to be a great place to find great artists.

Even weirder is that American Dad got me into loads of bands, from My Morning Jacket to Wax Hang to These Kids Wear Crowns. I can name a handful of acoustic artists that I got into thanks to Netflix shows like Bojack Horseman, Queer Eye, Jessica Jones, and Final Space. I also watch wrestling from time to time, and the WWE often use some good songs when promoting PPV's or building promos.

The next time you watch TV and you hear a song you like, look it up on your phone or Shazam it. You'll probably find a ton of other songs by that artist/band that you like too.

</comment><comment><USER4> These are some resources I use whenever I want to discover new music and old, forgotten gems:

\- Bandcamp. Obviously. It's such a great and large community of listeners, enthusiasts, collectors, artists and labels featuring niche genres as well as popular, widely available releases. Whenever I browse my feed which lists new releases of artists/labels and purchases of users I follow, I have to restrain myself from overspending. It's that good if you follow people with interesting taste. Feel free to browse my Bandcamp collection[1].

\- Discogs Diving: Go to Discogs' explore section, select a subgenre or two, a decade and/or a country of origin. Japanese ambient and new age from the 80s? Sure. Late 70s brazilian soul, jazz, fusion crossovers? Done. Depending on how many results you receive you might want to sort the releases and navigate from popular to obscurity by using pagination parameters. In any case you'll like have a few dozens tabs open within minutes.

\- NTS Radio. As mentioned in another comment. This is radio done right. A large and diverse selection of shows hosted by some of the most competent and knowledgeable selectors and DJs of our time offering finest human curation that is superior to any recommendation engine in my experience.

\- Online record stores. Record stores have always been a great source for music discovery and that doesn't change when things move online. Many of those stores have curated sections showcasing new and noteworthy releases, providing background information and obviously audio samples. Some of my favorite stores are Piccadilly Records[2], Soul Jazz Records / Sounds Of The Universe[3] and Boomkat[4] (which also offers lossless, digital purchasing options similar to Bandcamp).

[1] [https://bandcamp.com/michaelfeihstel](https://bandcamp.com/michaelfeihstel)

[2] [https://www.piccadillyrecords.com](https://www.piccadillyrecords.com)

[3] [https://soundsoftheuniverse.com](https://soundsoftheuniverse.com)

[4] [https://boomkat.com](https://boomkat.com)

</comment><comment><USER32> This website is pretty good [http://everynoise.com](http://everynoise.com). It is a giant list of genres where you can listen to short clips to see if you like them quickly.

</comment><comment><USER33> Boomkat's new/rec'd filters, Bandcamp, Resident Advisor, Aquarium Drunkard

</comment><comment><USER34> I look at the university radio station playlists: [https://www.earshot- online.com/charts/citr.cfm](https://www.earshot-online.com/charts/citr.cfm) some schools still have these.

All of those bands will be on bandcamp or youtube, like Devours: [https://youtu.be/6klgNfSsmoM](https://youtu.be/6klgNfSsmoM) or Orville Peck: [https://youtu.be/q3esGD6lcMM](https://youtu.be/q3esGD6lcMM)

</comment><comment><USER35> I mostly use Youtube with autoplay, recommendations and automatic mixes. I also use Pandora a lot to discover more of some style of music.

Sometimes there are gems on Mixcloud mixes, and occassionally I Shazam a song that is playing.

Quite often I just ask a DJ when a really interesting song is playing.

Soundcloud also has lots of interesting music and artists.

Discogs is a good service to check discographies.

I have lots of musical playlists on Youtube at [https://youtube.com/peterhil/playlists](https://youtube.com/peterhil/playlists)

</comment><comment><USER36> Depending on what you listen to, Bandcamp can be an absolute gold mine.

</comment><comment><USER37> SoundCloud is still my go to. Repost feed is a bunch of noise, so typically I find an artist I like and go thru his "likes" and "comment" feed to explore from there.

</comment><comment><USER38> Jamendo is a good platform. It has copyright-free music from talented musicians, like good talented artists. This means you can download songs for free and even use them in your online videos only if you don't monetize them. You can buy licenses as well, if you need songs for your commercials or whatever. Also, they pay artists decently. My band has profited from Jamendo in the last 3 years and we were able to pay for our last 2 albums with the money coming from there.

</comment><comment><USER39> Currently - Spotify 'Discover weekly' mostly (there are some weeks that they match my taste poorly, but sometimes I find something that really suits me)

Also - youtube. I'm a big fan of XMA Tricking and I love watching Tricking Samplers of people - they have very often cool soundtracks.

Before spotify I was sing Hype Machine - I think it's still worth trying it out. I've found many artists before they become mainstream ones there - totally recommend it.

</comment><comment><USER40> For me it was a promise that headphones (can't remember where I found this but I think it's still on github) should have compelled... But I never got to make it work... So I find new songs when watching series or even on YouTube.

For me the best is Radio Paradise (free eclectic radio on the internet) it's more "old" stuff than new stuff but I discovered so much quality music (and still discover new things)

</comment><comment><USER41> I like the plain Spotify artist suggestion based on the one you're viewing, but mix it up a bit by first seeking out bands in a genre in another country then follow the suggestions from there. Example, there will virtually be no paths for people in the US to Russian artists like Mumiy Troll, Leningrad, Monetochka or Mashina Vremeni from artists popular in the US via "Fans also like".

</comment><comment><USER42> I've heard a number of great bands for the first time on KEXP on YouTube.

Off the top of my head, All Them Witches, Black Pistol Fire, King Gizzard, The Murlocs.

</comment><comment><USER43> I use Google Play & browse their new releases every couple days. Same with youtube music. I also love using Youtube Musics personal radio because it plays both songs it knows you like & stuff that's similar in a really good balance. So I don't have to skip too much stuff but it's not only throwing me stuff I've listened to a bunch.

</comment><comment><USER44> [https://wfmu.org/](https://wfmu.org/) \- listener sponsored, free format radio out of Jersey City, New Jersey, USA. volunteer DJs are all amazingly informed about the music in their collections. days and days of archives to listen to, as well as online-only streams. highly recommended.

</comment><comment><USER45> On r/listentothis - I made a browser extension that highlights my favorite genres [https://github.com/alexadam/ListenToThis- Highlight](https://github.com/alexadam/ListenToThis-Highlight), but I have to update it because it doesn't work with the new reddit changes

</comment><comment><USER46> I've come to the conclusion the best way to overcome the algorithm is to watch open mic performances uploaded to YouTube

Yes, you'll sometimes have performances for someone other than you but you can skip those until you find the ones you like

You'll find there's great music everywhere; it's good sound engineers that are rare

</comment><comment><USER47> Reddit. Namely the following subs. I occasionally go their all time top section and just listen to them.

\- r/Music \- r/trueMusic \- r/listentothis \- r/listentous \- r/hip_hop \- r/FitTunes \- r/electronicmusic \- 90smusic

Obviously, the above list is not exhaustive.

</comment><comment><USER48> NTS.live

online radio - great djs if i hear something i like, i look into the playlist to find the artists

<comment><USER4> Absolutely. In addition to more obvious resources like Bandcamp or Spotify, NTS has become an essential discovery tool. It's radio done right and it works so well because it's real human curation, done by selectors with very fine taste, instead of yet another mediocre recommendation engine.

Some favorite shows of mine on NTS are Melodies International, Organic Music with Chee Shimizu, Floating Points and Palms Trax.

</comment></comment><comment><USER49> I've discovered some great bands through Audiotree Live

[https://www.youtube.com/user/Audiotreetv/videos](https://www.youtube.com/user/Audiotreetv/videos)

</comment><comment><USER50> Amazon Music's "Customers Also Listened To" is terrific.

</comment><comment><USER51> My friend has been working on a personal project to do just that! Check it out! Plug - [https://plug.af/](https://plug.af/)

</comment><comment><USER52> Online radio and mixes.

NTS and "the lot radio" are in my heavy rotation right now.

Both stations have live DJs usually in 1-2 hour sets, and play a wide variety of music depending on the DJ.

</comment><comment><USER53> To find related artists of usually similar genre it's good to look at the producers of an album and then go look at what other artists they produce

</comment><comment><USER54> Bandcamp if you like underground stuff. Find a genre you like, find an artist you like, find a label you like, find all the other artists on that label.

</comment><comment><USER55> Taste Kid (recently rebranded as Taste Dive) [https://www.tastedive.com](https://www.tastedive.com)

</comment><comment><USER56> [https://www.reddit.com/r/listentothis](https://www.reddit.com/r/listentothis)

</comment><comment><USER57> SomaFM's Bagel Radio, Soundcloud, Youtube

</comment><comment><USER58> I use Google Play, so whenever I find a song I like, I listen to a station based off that song to find similar music.

</comment><comment><USER59> I use SpotifyCharts

[https://spotifycharts.com/](https://spotifycharts.com/)

</comment><comment><USER60> [https://plug.dj/](https://plug.dj/)

</comment><comment><USER61> [https://radio.garden](https://radio.garden)

</comment><comment><USER14> for electronic music this beauty just launched: [http://music.ishkur.com/](http://music.ishkur.com/)

</comment><comment><USER62> Spotify discovery and "Go to Playlist radio".

</comment><comment><USER63> What's good for classical, primarily string quartets?

<comment><USER64> idagio

</comment></comment><comment><USER65> Shoutcast and/or other online radio services.

</comment><comment><USER66> I consistently get awesome new songs from Pandora.

</comment><comment><USER67> I have Apple Music and like the New Fire playlist.

</comment><comment><USER68> Redacted.ch - lots of hand curated collages.

<comment><USER69> Any tips on signing up?

</comment></comment><comment><USER70> hypem.com

Been a great source of new music for the last few years.

</comment><comment><USER71> di.fm

</comment><comment><USER72> Reading Wikipedia articles mostly.</comment>


Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety - <AUTHOR> http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/1208_2012_tesla_model_s_test_and_range_verification/viewall.html <comment><USER5> I've been driving a tesla roadster for about a year. It's my daily commuter.

I plug the car into a regular 110V outlet. I typically get 30-50 miles of charge overnight, depending on what time I get home and when I leave. My commute is only 10 miles each way so it's 100% full most mornings when I get in.

I've verified the car can do 240 miles between cities but you have to set the cruise to 60 mph or below. I keep a gas car for long road trips and camping, etc., but I don't use it much.

The Tesla is very cool. Strangers stop me to talk about it multiple times per week. Customer service has been off the charts.

High recommend. Go buy one.

<comment><USER5> I forgot to mention what is maybe the best part. Surprised the article doesn't talk about this.

When you drive an EV, acceleration is instant. Like, at the same time your foot goes down, your shoulders get thrown back.

Gas cars often take 0.5-2 seconds to get response from the engine, depending on the car & current conditions at the time you accelerate.

You get used to the acceleration in the Tesla after a while. But one year in, I'm still loving the instant response. That's what I really miss when I'm driving the gas car. It's just awesome.

<comment><USER6> I think you're attributing to throttle lag something that is primarily attributable to torque (which isn't to say there isn't throttle response lag, just it's a minor component imo). Diesels are similar to EVs in the sense that you don't need to let the engine rev up or downshift to get that "throw you back" feel quickly. Depends on the car, obviously.

<comment><USER7> Depending on the engine computer (or lack thereof), a couple seconds of throttle lag isn't unreasonable. One of the things my flight instructor made a point to show me while learning to fly small planes (with carbureted engines, so the effect was magnified compared to what you'd see on a modern fuel- injected auto) was throttle lag on a balked landing (go-around). Most aircraft engines directly drive the propeller, so there are no transmission effects to confusing things. Shoving the throttle from idle to wide-open can actually cause a dip in RPM as the higher manifold pressure condenses formerly vaporized fuel and the fuel system tries to catch up.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Elon Musk is without doubt one the best entrepreneurs around - far less celebrated than many of the other 'uber' entrepreneurs around but with such ridiculously awesome companies.

268 Miles (or slightly less according to the article) is just amazing - <USER2> C02, less environmental impact wrapped in a high performance car which - <USER3> no doubt - have some detractors as a first iteration against well establish models (comparing it to BMW and Mercedes who have been around for almost 90+ years is a big ask!)

None the less - it's ridiculously exciting at what's been achieved and what will be achieved in the next few years in this space. I give it no more than 3-4 years until these cars will be doing 400-500 miles or more.

<comment><USER9> Who (in the past 20-30 years) is celebrated more than Elon Musk is today? Other than Steve Jobs or Bill Gates. Maybe tied with Jeff Bezos?

I don't think "many".

<comment><USER10> If I asked my wife today, I'm certain she's knows Jobs and Gates, maybe Bezos (and that's a big maybe) but no way would she know who Musk is. Lets not mistake our echo chamber for the world.

<comment><USER11> I'm sure Elon will get his due. It's just a matter of time before the rest of the world finds out about his accomplishments.

E.g., I don't think many of us here on HN were surprised to see Drew Houston on the cover of Forbes.

<comment><USER12> You'd be surprised. I've been hanging around here for a few years and I have no idea who he is. Although a little voice in the back of my mind says he might be the Dropbox guy.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> That article seemed filled with anxiety to me.

I don't think anything will eliminate range anxiety other than time. As more people get electric cars and start to build their lives around them, their acquaintances will start to see it as more normal.

It's almost like the very early days of the automobile, when each driver had to carry a ton of extra gas, since fill stations were few and far between. Like any bootstrap, it took a long time to create the virtuous cycle that mutually reinforces the value of the customers and the infrastructure. Electric cars will need to go through the same thing.

The other big issue is the time to refill. 30 minute quick charge is incredibly fast for electricity, but still incredibly slow compared to filling a gas car.

<comment><USER14> >The other big issue is the time to refill

I think that will end up requiring both a social tweak and an infrastructure one. Once people are comfortable with the concept of an electric car, it will be only natural to start requesting (and the necessary civil authorities adding) charging ports in standard parking areas.

Imagine in NYC, a parking meter that also has a charging plug for the car. Raise the meter's rate just a bit and you can cover both the electricity and install costs.

<comment><USER15> I'd love to see something along the lines of Intel's Wireless Resonant Energy Link[1] used in conjunction with EV's so that the idea of "plugging them in" can be all but eliminated.

If you didn't even have to plug it in, just drive it to work, park it, drive it home, park it and it could charge automagically in both parking spots - <USER4> much more convenient than petroleum and would potentially be a big plus FOR getting an EV.

1 - [http://software.intel.com/en- us/videos/channel/general/wirel...](http://software.intel.com/en- us/videos/channel/general/wireless-resonant-energy-link-wrel- demo/1127589936001)

<comment><USER16> >its much more convenient than petroleum and would potentially be a big plus FOR getting an EV.

Plugging in at home is _already_ more convenient than petroleum.

It seems like using 40% more energy to charge your car is an inefficient way to avoid plugging in. Project Better Place is already working on robotic plugs that plug themselves in.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Off topic, but that star plot was impossible to read. Straight up parallel coordinates would have been an improvement (maybe), but I can't help feeling like, with only 25 data points, a summary table would have been _even better_. I love visualizations as much as the next guy, but only when they are aids to understanding, not, you know, detriments to it.

<comment><USER18> I disagree. While it was impossible to understand any specifics, that wasn't what they were trying to show. Instead, they were trying to show how Tesla dominates over other EVs (that are all about the same). And it did a great job of showing that, much better than a table would have.

<comment><USER17> That's fair. I was conflating two things in my initial post: legibility and suitability. Legibility was atrocious; I did not get the same insight from the vis that you did because I couldn't read it. Suitability is, of course, debatable. I find star plots have a fair bit of noise (e.g., line slope) that detracts from the message of the vis. Parallel coordinates are slightly better in this regard, but still require a "discerning eye." However, looking at it again, I agree that a table would be insufficient.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> While this is impressive, it still doesn't come anywhere close to solving the problem. It can only be used for commuting and local trips. I regularly travel 450+ miles to visit family. Cannot use this. If you can improve the infrastructure with the charging stations it helps, but still doesn't work. I might be willing to stop for 30 minutes once, but not twice. I can eat a meal while it charges the first time, but as that charge still wouldn't be enough, i guess i just have to twiddle my thumbs for the second 30 minute stop. Adding an hour to my 6.5 hour drive is not something I'd enjoy.

Don't get me wrong, this is awesome for filling the commute hole, but many many people use their cars for longer trips as well. Until you can make it viable for both I'm not spending many tens of thousands of dollars on it.

<comment><USER20> You say, "the problem" when you should say "my problem."

Personally I just drive around the SF bay area. Maybe 120 miles on my longest driving day. For the one-two times a year I go farther, I suppose I need to rent a car, take transit. or have someone else drive. That seems like a reasonable price to pay to have the coolest car on the planet for a few years.

<comment><USER19> If you have a spare 100k "to be cool" then go for it. If I had that much money to throw around I'd get one as well. It's an awesome car.

That doesn't however just make it "my problem." There aren't very many people buying any of these cars, so I assume it's a problem for more than just me.

The point I'm trying to make, is that if I'm spending 50-100k on a car, I want it to solve "the driving problem." i.e. if I need to drive somewhere, I'd like to be able to do it. Whether I do it often or not is irrelevant. In my case I actually do do it quite frequently, but I suspect that many people don't buy these not because they actually do this once every month or two like I do, but because they want to be able to if they want or need to.

Maybe it's vacation, maybe it's seeing family, maybe it's an emergency. You need to go somewhere and you want to jump in the car and go there. With this you can't, and instead have to go spend several hundred extra dollars and a have a huge hassle of renting a car. No thank you.

<comment><USER20> "There aren't very many people buying any of these cars" - I can't tell if you mean teslas, or electric cars in general.

If you mean Teslas - an article in june said there are 10k reserved, which means the waiting list is a year long.

If you mean electric cars in general - I would urge you not to compare the leaf or volt to a tesla model S. The former was sold to cost conscious people who ultimately and correctly saw false economy, limitations and questionable design. The tesla can be sold to anyone who would buy a new BMW/Audi/Mercedes and wants to look earth conscious, tech savy, or hip.

<comment><USER21> There are over 13,000 reservations as of a week ago, and the pace of reservations is accelerating dramatically.

Chevy Volt is doing halfway decent selling 1,800 units per month even if it isn't as good as original projections.

Reservations in August for Model S are already coming close to that pace and the upward trend is accelerating, with each retail store now ramping up to multiple reservations per day.

Tesla is already planning to increase production to a monthly rate that translates into 30,000 units per year, but based on current trends it looks increasingly likely that next year's production might be sold out as early as January or February.

As to who will want the car, it's anyone who wants a new BMW/Audi/Mercedes and who wants to look earth conscious, tech savy, or hip while also saving a ton of money compared to the competition.

Model S Performance (the regular production model as opposed to the limited edition Signature Founders edition used in the test) costs less than BMW M5 even before the huge yearly savings on gas and maintenance (the performance is identical to the tested car, but it has different paint and interior options and is not a limited edition).

Model S 85 costs the same as the 550i GT (its most similar competitor) and saves thousands per year. It also competes with and compares favorably to various 7 series offerings while costing the same or less, and always saving a ton of operating expenses.

Those two cars are the bread and butter of the Model S lineup and are hyper competitive with their conventional counterparts. There are a million plus cars sold in this segment globally and Model S has a big competitive advantage.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Edit: Whoops, meant Chevy Volt.

Why isn't the Leaf doing better? when I heard about it I was super excited, and if I had to replace my Prius, it would be my first choice.

I think they hit the tradeoffs just right: for almost all daily driving, you'll never use gasoline. But if you have to do a long trip, you don't have to care about range.

What am I missing?

<comment><USER23> The Leaf is a pure electric.

Maybe you crossed it up with the Chevy Volt?

<comment><USER22> Yup, thanks for the fix.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Hmmm....

Yes the range is better than other electric cars but half the article is about range anxiety. Maybe not the best link title.

<comment><USER25> It's about range anxiety, and then ends with the relief that they didn't really need to worry too much. 5 hours of driving from an electric car getting 100 mpg-e and matching a BMW M5 stat-for-stat. That impressed them, and it impresses me.

<comment><USER19> except for the part where they didn't actually make it to their destination. And since most people aren't going to have the charging station 4 miles from their eventual destination, everyone else would have been screwed. Not too mention they now have to wait 30 minutes to get their last 5 miles.

still an impressive car :-)

<comment><USER26> They intentionally chose a route at the maximum possible millage. Most people would be more conservative.

<comment><USER19> no, most people would go to the place they are going, no matter if it is 220 miles or 260 miles. If it's 220 they'd be fine, if it's 260 they'd be screwed.

<comment><USER26> Do people generally attempt to do something they know they will not be able to do?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> $105k for the model tested in this article? Price tag anxiety is still an issue.

<comment><USER21> Thats a Founders Signature edition. It's a double whammy for limited editionness and can't be purchased by the general public. Even the straight Sig's are sold out (there were only 1200 allocated to North America).

The regular production model that this is based on is the Model S Performance. It's identical, except it has different color and interior options (because its not limited edition). That runs ~$85k after the Federal Rebate, which makes it cheaper than the BMW M5 (a similar competitor in terms of performance, if not practicality).

The standard MS85 (the big battery) clocks in at ~$69,900 and is a bit slower than the MSP, but still as fast as a 550i GT, which is basically the same price and a similar car in terms of features.

There are cheaper options, but most buyers will be paying $60k and up for the MS60 (few seem to be interested in the MS40) so I can see how that can generate some sticker shock.

But hundreds of thousands of cars in this price range get sold in the U.S. every year and the Model S is a bargain in that segment, both in terms of its MSRP and especially in terms of its 5 year total cost of ownership.

This is not the Leaf that costs twice as much as its competitors. Model S easily will save its owners $10k+ over 5 years (and likely much more). The Model S is much closer to a $40,000 car in terms of how much money you actually have to have available to pay the monthly payment, insurance, taxes, gas and maintenance.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> Is there a definitive word on battery performance in sub-zero F weather?

<comment><USER21> Multiple Roadsters have been running fine for years above the Arctic Circle. There are actually less issues than with gas powered cars. The second largest market for Model S, behind the U.S. is Norway.

<comment><USER28> I understand people use them in cold weather, but I want to know what the actual range turns into. I have read a 20 - 30% reduction in the forums and the regenerative braking is turned off until the batteries heat up.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> Thank you Elon for giving us back the future. Tnx.

</comment><comment><USER30> Don't care still want.

<comment><USER31> It would be an awesome commuter car, but it's awfully hard to justify that price tag for something you only use an about 8 hours a week. Especially if the seats are as uncomfortable as he suggests.

Still... if I had that kind of auto budget, I'd definitely buy one.

It would be nice if the all-electric vehicles provided a port in which you could plug an emergency battery that would take you, say, 20 miles or so, so you could get to a recharging station if you overdrive your range. Yes, you have a range gauge, so you never should get into that predicament, but we've had gas gauges for decades, yet we still see people trudging toward their stopped vehicles with newly-purchased gas can in hand.

<comment><USER32> _we've had gas gauges for decades, yet we still see people trudging toward their stopped vehicles with newly-purchased gas can in hand._

In Germany, they write you a ticket for that.</comment></comment></comment>


GitHub Octicons - <AUTHOR> http://octicons.github.com/

<comment><USER2> SIL OFL licence[1] for the icons themselves.

This is exciting news! When GitHub originally announced Octicons, many people on HN[2] wished that they were open for general use rather than just for GitHub.

1: [https://github.com/github/octicons/blob/master/LICENSE.txt](https://github.com/github/octicons/blob/master/LICENSE.txt) 2: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3949489](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3949489)

</comment><comment><USER3> Want them as PNG?

Step 1: Download SVG from [https://github.com/github/octicons/tree/master/svg](https://github.com/github/octicons/tree/master/svg)

Step 2: Use [http://www.fileformat.info/convert/image/svg2raster.htm](http://www.fileformat.info/convert/image/svg2raster.htm)

Step 3: ...

Step 4: Profit!

</comment><comment><USER4> They don't mention this on the page, but this is an icon font (like FontAwesome). The zip includes CSS/SCSS referencing the ttf, svg, woff and eot files.

Released under MIT + Open Font License

<comment><USER5> The blog post [1] mentions that it's an icon font.

1: [https://github.com/blog/1851-octicons-for- everyone](https://github.com/blog/1851-octicons-for-everyone)

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> A list of the icons sorted by their names:

[https://gist.github.com/anonymous/0bd2c6fb5e42bfb5cacc](https://gist.github.com/anonymous/0bd2c6fb5e42bfb5cacc)

</comment><comment><USER7> damn I thought it said 'GitHub Octocoins'

BEEN SMOKIN TOO MUCH BITCOINS

On a more related note, how do you people feel about the 'ordered list' icon having more lines than numbers, and the 'podium' icon looking like a drinking fountain?</comment>


Dating of bones from Indonesia confirm Homo erectus roamed planet for 1.8M years - <AUTHOR> https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/dec/18/first-human-ancestors-to-leave-africa-died-out-in-java-scientists-say <comment><USER2> I went to the Sterkfontein Caves [1] [2] recently and the most poignant thing for me was the diminutive size of _Australopithecus_. While larger huminoid species [3] were evolving, our direct (well, disregarding cross breeding) ancestors were tiny. _Australopithecus_ is about the size of a 5 or 6 year old.

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterkfontein](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterkfontein)

[2] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cradle_of_Humankind](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cradle_of_Humankind)

[3] That would be the precursors to Neanderthals and Denisovians.

Edit: The males were somewhat larger. _Modern humans do not display the same degree of sexual dimorphism as Australopithecus appears to have._ [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australopithecus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australopithecus)

<comment><USER3> We have the same _Australopithecus_ ancestors as Neanderthals and Denisovans though. The sapiens/neanderthal split is much more recent than that, "only" a few hundred thousand years, while Australopithecus became extinct two million years ago.

<comment><USER2> I think you are right, yes. I asked the guide (a professor) about this at the time. When specifically asked about _Australopithecus_ and its small size, and about the contemporary hominids at the time, the remark was along the lines of: "The other contemporary hominids were much larger, but died out."

But you are right that these would then be a split prior to Neanderthals and Denisovians. Looking at Wikipedia's available articles, I guess the hominids that he was talking about don't necessarily have clear names and branches. I am not sure what those hominids would have been.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I wouldn't be surprised if the red hairy people of Australian Aboriginal mythology turn out to be the last stand of Homo erectus, it's just that no fossils have been found yet.

<comment><USER5> I always wonder about troll mythology and Neanderthals...

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Make sense, Java was isolated dead end on the southeastern edge of the Eurasian landmass

</comment><comment><USER7> Alternatively, they didn't come from Africa but from Asia.

</comment><comment><USER8> I'm unclear that the verb 'died out' is helpful to understanding here.

'survived longest' makes more sense - the point is that Homo erectus died out everywhere else much earlier.

</comment><comment><USER9> That's why they moved to Scala instead

<comment><USER10> Or Kotlin Island - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kotlin_Island](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kotlin_Island)

<comment><USER11> They'll surely find evidence h. erectus ran Android in an archaic app store up until 100k BCE. Tablet computing way back.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> stay away from Java

<comment><USER13> [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20600357](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20600357)

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Came for the Java jokes, was not disappointed

</comment><comment><USER15> I almost die in Java too.

<comment><USER16> It would have been better to die in Java 2.

<comment><USER15> You are right. Sometimes I wish I were better at English.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Wow, that is an annoying website to visit. I would rather have downloaded a text file than wade through all of that.

The first ad takes up half of my screen, and then I had to see a fullscreen amazon preview. When I tried to click the cookie policy it thought I clicked an ad that led to a pop-up.

</comment><comment><USER18> Did they get garbage collected though?

<comment><USER19> i think that is was scientists are doing now :D

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> If they had not died, they would have told us to stay away from Java.

</comment><comment><USER21> Meta: And as I often do when I read the Guardian I donated.

Why I write this?

1\. Hopefully someone reading HN works for newspapers and can tell them that there exist a good number of people who doesn't want to subscribe but who want to pay for quality content[0].

I guess on average I pay $5 every time I glance over an article in the Guardian.

2\. I want to urge more people around here to support companies and organizations that do the right thing. I guess many of you already do but many do not.

When we go to school or work in low paying jobs it is hard to pay and I guess it is easy for that habit to stick long after we cross into the richest 10 or 20% of the population.

[0]: I do also subscribe to two newspapers and one magazine and buy the paper from the kid who sell it every Sunday morning. Oh, and buy magazines and books. And pay my mandatory news tax (about $500 alone) that funds the national somewhat lopsided broadcasting channel. I'm happy to pay a bit more for individual articles but I cannot _subscribe_ to every paper (and I wouldn't have a chance to read them all either)

(Feels extremely weird to brag like this. That's why I made a new account.)

<comment><USER17> I'm curious why you think the Guardian is a company doing the right thing? I don't know much about them apart from being a news outlet, but it seems at least as biased as the rest of them.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: What was your user count/user growth since launch? - <AUTHOR>

Some of you have launched their own website / web service. I'm interested in how your user numbers developed within the first three or so years, on a monthly (or quarterly) sampling rate. Alternatively, maybe you know of someone else's (successful or unsuccessful) business and its user count.
(Maybe you know of some article on the web that has already done what I'm asking for)
So it'd be great if you could give some information such as the following
<comment>BEGIN Example<comment>
type of business: B2C online shop for dog food
definition of user: a customer making one sale per quarter
("yxqz"= year x, quarter z)
y1q1:    10 users
y1q2:   100 users
y1q3:   150 users
y1q4:  1000 users
y2q1:   900 users (lost users because Christmas was over)
y2q2:  2000 users
y2q3: 10000 users (started big marketing campaign)
...
<comment>END Example<comment>
Background: there once was an "Ask HN" question about estimating user growth ( http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=780482 ). Consensus was: you cannot predict user growth, release your stuff and see what happens.
So possibly, with a diverse set of businesses and their user numbers, it may be possible to elicit a rough heuristics for different kinds of businesses. </comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER2> My rough heuristic for a free service is: get 100 new users a day and activate them, you're getting started. get 1000 new users a day and activate them, you're doing pretty good. And get 20% month over month growth and you're doing great.

</comment><comment><USER3> i'm not sure about the quarterly without actually going in the database and querying it but over the span of 3 years we went from 0 registered users to 150,000. Each user does not necessary mean a sale as our source of income is purely based on the ads on our site since our content is free. It's a mobile related website.

<comment><AUTHOR> Great, thanks! Is it okay for you to have a quick look in your database and get your user numbers for each quarter since launch? Maybe you can even comment on each number regarding what caused it to develop that way (e.g. "organic growth", "service featured on greatwebsite.com", "outage for a week") ?

<comment><USER3> i will do it tonight when i get home :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER2> For mefeedia (in 2005)

y1q1: 10K y1q2: 20K y1q3: 30K y1q4: 40K

Growth was prety linear.

<comment><AUTHOR> dank u wel, Peter! How did you promote mefeedia? I'm curious to know what caused the linear growth.</comment></comment>


Where to advertise for Computer Scientists?   - <AUTHOR>

Could anyone help out and tell me where to advertise for computer scientists?  Especially in the UK? Any advice greatly appreciated. I've included my job advert below if anyone is interested or is generous enough to offer some feedback:
"I own a small search marketing agency here in the UK and would like to recruit a computer scientist with experience working with software that intrinsically rely on complex algorithms.
The salary I'm offering is £5000 ($8000) per month. (No benefits as it's a contractor role) It's a "contractor / freelance" position and once the project is complete (estimated 6 - 12 months) then I can't guarantee that the contract will be extended - especially if the tool doesn't work as intended or fails to become a revenue generator for my company.
I will also consider a single digit profit-share deal on any revenue that the tool generates. This is in addition to the monthly retainer. The rev-share deal isn't standard though and I'd only offer it to people that have significant experience or skills that will help develop this project faster than our anticipated projections.
Work from home or your own office if you don't want to work from mine in the UK. The project is a linguistics based although no machine learning is required. Yay.  All the tools and data currently exist for this tool to actually work, although none of them fit together to form a single entity. Some of the existing technologies have API's some don't – but there is no wheel inventing requirement as part of the project.
High output and stability is of the essence and the only way we can make the tool profitable is by having extremely high throughput rates with our orders. As such, I feel that any person that's interested should have decent experience in C++ or Java, although, I'm open to suggestions as I'm not the expert ;)
Thanks for your advice in finding the right person Hacker News.
Chris Angus - Warlock Media <comment><USER2> It's not a bad advert, honestly. You offer a rough outline of what you need done, you mention some technical concerns (throughput and stability) but you don't list a ton of libraries and other tools you demand experience with, and you're up front about the salary. If you're looking for someone to work full time, the salary seems a bit low, as contractors need to pay their own benefits, but it's not unreasonably low, which is a breath of fresh air.

HN does hiring posts on the first of every month, and they seem like a great place to advertise. I found my current job with a startup called ThisOrThat through one, and I like that my coworkers read HN and seem to actually give a damn about the business side of "software business" instead of just focusing on the tech. If you can wait three weeks, that would be a good resource for you.

To be honest with you, this sounds like something I'd like to work on, except I don't live in the UK. If you can live with a contractor based in the US, I'd like to talk more, because the project sounds interesting. My e-mail address is listed in my profile.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks Bartonfink. I specifically avoided talking about various libraries or tools as I'd like to keep this a little hush hush for the time being.

I'll send you an email - thanks for the reply. It's much appreciated.

Chris

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> The salary is too low, in the south of England you'd be paying at _least_ £300/day for a regular C++ developer let alone with specialist skills.

You don't really make it clear what you need, but if you require a very specialist skill set it probably makes more sense just to make a list of people with that skillset and approach them directly.

<comment><AUTHOR> I don't mind where someone works from, while a UK candidate would be great, I'm aware that the pay isn't huge so I'm very open to talking to any one from any country and experience level.

Thank you for your feedback ig1.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Can you please email me the details of the specific skill set you are looking for.

My email is email@example.com</comment>


Ask HN: Any HN'ers in Portland, OR? - <AUTHOR> Hey guys, I'm in Portland, OR for 3 weeks, visiting from NC.  If any of my HN peers are around and would like to grab a drink or something, give me a shout.  Email: email@example.com <comment><USER2> Originally from PDX, but, alas, I'm down in CA now. Best of luck and enjoy your stay!

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks! This is my first time in the pacific northwest, so I'm pretty excited about finally making it up here. I've already visited Powell's City of Books which was awesome. And one HN'er has gotten in touch, so hopefully we can meet up soon.</comment></comment>


An exploratory statistical analysis of the 2014 World Cup Final - <AUTHOR> https://beta.deepnote.com/article/statistical-analysis-of-2014-world-cup-final <comment><USER2> Ok, so something I wrote years ago hit the HN front page. This is what it feels, uh?

I also have a github with more notebooks about football here: [https://github.com/rjtavares/football- crunching](https://github.com/rjtavares/football-crunching)

If you gave any questions about football analytics, hit me up.

(Gmail and Twitter are the same name as my HN account, if you prefer email or DM)

<comment><USER3> Interesting article thanks. A little constructive feedback on some language in the conclusion. "Football is a game of space. That's why parking the bus can actually allow to win a match." The second sentence doesn't make sense unfortunately. Worse, it's not really possible to work out what it means either. It sounds like you mean "That's why parking the bus can be a good strategy" (or something like that). But the first sentence sets up the exact opposite expectation, a sentence like "That's why parking the bus is never a good strategy" would be compatible with the first sentence. Sadly the reader is left not knowing whether you're saying one thing, or the complete opposite.

I understand English is unlikely to be your first language. Please read this as a genuine attempt to be helpful.

<comment><USER4> There's a grammatical hiccup there with the 'allow' but the meaning is quite clear for soccer-fluent readers.

<comment><USER3> Completely unclear to me and I've been soccer (football) fluent for over 50 years. I know what parking the bus means (for non football fans - it means falling back and defending in numbers). If football is really a game of space it should be a poor strategy. Is the author saying parking the bus is good or bad strategy?

<comment><USER4> It's a strategy that gives up possession in exchange for denying offensive space to the opponent and relies on exploiting (through counter attacks) the defensive space the attacker opens. When executed well, it can win games but it's not amenable to the type of analysis presented in this write-up. That's what the bit is about.

<comment><USER3> Aha, so essentially he meant "football is a game of space, that's why parking the bus is an _interesting_ strategy". Thank you. Too much binary thinking from me. I often struggle to discern the meaning of unclear writing. Which is probably why I spend disproportionate time on my own writing polishing and rewriting for clarity. But I still fail regularly, it's not an easy problem.

<comment><USER4> Glad it helped! I brain-pretzeled myself over _soundness_ in this very forum just last year:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20196575](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20196575)

<comment><USER3> An interesting and educational thread

> "I've now come to understand the two chief weapons of the JIT remain > surprise, fear, ruthless efficiency and an almost fanatical devotion to the > Pope."

I like this very much. Even adding nice red uniforms, it's still two chief weapons.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Germany 2014 was about the best I've seen the game played.

Something I watch that seems to differentiate players and teams at every level is what happens on the first touch when receiving a pass. When you first start watching this, you'll notice that as you move up the ranks, the ball just sticks to a pro's feet, preferably in front of them a couple feet away where they are ready to play it again. Watching Germany that year, their first touch was not merely excellent, but aggressively so. They took the ball and instead of settling it, turned it into a rolling ball in the direction they wanted to play. Or a first touch pass. Speaking in wild generalities here and I don't have numbers to back it up.

Statistically I would guess that their second touch was on average farther away from them than other teams of comparable level, while still being under control.

It reminded me of Tiger Woods when he burst onto the scene. He played the game far more aggressively and relied on his skills to keep him safe rather than traditional shot selection. Germany 2014 decided these slightly riskier touches are consistently possible in the long run and the benefit outweighs the risk.

It also seemed that with the aggressive play, there is just _more_ football played -- more chances. The more chances that are generated, the more it favors the better team.

<comment><USER6> Watch Germany vs. France and say that. The Germans stalled and fouled the whole game and scored off a set piece. In the final versus Argentina too, the game was scoreless until extra time. They also needed extra time versus Algeria. Their only real display of attacking was versus Brazil who self- destructed after having their best player (and top 3 player in the world) horrifically injured.

<comment><USER7> And yet, perhaps the most breathtaking display of football dominance I saw from that Germany team, was from their 2016 Euro semi-final against France. It was way more impressive than their brazil dismantling. Their control of the game was out of this world.

Football is "unstable" as a game. To dominate in a consistent way, you actually need to be overwhelming superior to your opponent in many different stages/aspects of the game. Any weak link and you are at the mercy of fate.

<comment><USER6> Ummm they lost... I was actually in France that year. France advanced then lost the final to Portugal.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> If anyone's interested in doing similar analysis, my company StatsBomb makes a lot of event data available on GitHub, including the last World Cup, lots of Champions League finals, NWSL and FAWSL etc:

[https://github.com/statsbomb/open-data/](https://github.com/statsbomb/open- data/)

<comment><USER9> Are you able to share how StatsBomb collects event data? I'd love to build something to capture stats for local club teams but probably not if it involves computer vision. Thanks!

<comment><USER10> If you're interested in collecting small-scale/simple event-data, I put something together for my own use here: [https://torvaney.github.io/projects/tracker.html](https://torvaney.github.io/projects/tracker.html)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> One of those who doesnt like the use of advanced stats in football. I do watch a lot of football though. My reason is simple:

The advanced stats as they are called (xG, xA, xPA, offense actions, defense actions) all end up as a mere tool for disregarding the actual result and providing arguments for which was the better team. Like team A won the match 1-0 but team B were the better team since they had more <<insert favorable stat>>. The idea behind stats should be to contextualize the game I watched a bit more, and not replace the game watching.

Then there is also comparing the stats across games. In football(and every other game) there is a different difficulty level associated with each game (fatigue, condition, team condition, opposition condition, tactics, opposition tactics, teammates, chemistry, opposition mistakes, opposition players, adjustments, pressure, and even sheer luck on occasions), which makes the comparison redundant. An offensive team would always have more shots and more possession than a defensive minded park the bus kind of team. Like you said, right now no stat is good enough to give us an idea of how well a team played. Football is a game of spaces, and a lot of things depend on player movements (or lack of) and vision. I find those reports helpful which tells us where a certain team had the advantage and how they maximised it though.

<comment><USER12> Do you think the game of football is more complex than, say, the global economy? I doubt it, yet we still use data and statistics to analyse the economy, so why not football or any other sport?

<comment><USER11> Its not an exact comparison. We use models to analyse the economy but not human behavior. Any sport is a lot about human intelligence, behavior, and skill. Easy to quantify the final output (like numbers that matter such as goals) and compare those. Right now, other than that, we dont have good enough models for any action in football. The context is very important, but that is completely ignored by statistics. Until we get where those things are given due consideration, there is no point quoting or debating over vanity metrics like xG, offensive actions etc. There is a very American tendency to reduct a game to just stats, but that a game is infinitely more complex. You may have just one offensive action in the game and yet still win the game if you are well drilled defensively, and can stop opposition counters.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Your browser is not yet supported

We're sorry about this, but we don't fully support your browser yet. Let us know at email@example.com which browser you're using and we'll make sure to prioritize it. We currently recommend to use the latest version of Chrome, Safari or Firefox and you should be all set. Thanks!

\- - -

I'm using Firefox 26 on the latest iOS.

<comment><USER14> Since Firefox mobile doesn't use the same versions as desktop, I'm guessing deepnote has just incorrectly implemented the browser support logic. This is a very common issue (Firefox specifically)

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Nice as an exercise in Pandas and the whole Python data analysis tool chain, the graphics are awesome. As an exercise on football analysis is pretty useless and feeble, and even worst, judging by the author's name (most probably Brazilian or Portuguese) it led his dislike of Argentina to cloud his judgement.

You can perorate all you want about possession and passes completion but if I am a manager and you offer me a first half (who according the author was a Germany slaughter fest) as the Argentinians had it, I will take it every single time. Absent from the analysis are also the clear cut chances of Higuain and Messi (far better from anything than Germany had, despite all the possession) and the controversial disputed ball between Neuer and Higuain. Anyway, it was nice to see the exercise.

</comment><comment><USER16> Pretty interesting read! I can also recommend the author's medium account[1] full of similar articles (even though in _a bit less hands-on_ format)

[1] [https://medium.com/football-crunching](https://medium.com/football- crunching)

<comment><USER2> They're similar indeed. I wrote the linked post and that blog is mine.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> Pandas code with long lines can look so so ugly. Not a dig towards the original post at all, it's just that the pandas API isn't the most pleasant to work with.

</comment><comment><USER18> Hi, the author of Deepnote here, this is cool!

<comment><USER16> Not sure if you can influence this, but I have two platform suggestions that crossed my mind while reading it:

1\. I would make the "Run this article as a notebook" more visible. On a first read, I've completely skipped that part as it's _very similar_ to pop-ups on medium. Having an option to directly run/modify this blog would be pretty amazing.

2\. The chosen color scheme of code formatting is a bit odd, but that might be just my subjective preference :-)

<comment><USER18> Of course, thanks for the suggestions.

1\. I agree, but there is a reason for this. We'll soon be adding the ability to run/modify feature even without the need to sign up so the whole thing will go away.

2\. Thanks! We are experimenting with this (the default scheme is different, but we had a lot of people requesting dark mode so trying out different things for the published articles.)

<comment><USER19> I really love the dark theme of Sourcegraph in VsCode.

[https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=sourcegr...](https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=sourcegraph.vscode- sourcegraph-theme)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Very cool. For anyone interested in this kind of tactical analysis, another (though non-computational) one I've enjoyed is [http://www.zonalmarking.net/](http://www.zonalmarking.net/).

<comment><USER7> In the same vein, but with a more statistical oriented take on european football you can check [https://www.alfadata.xyz/blog](https://www.alfadata.xyz/blog).

And here is an interview of the founder about his experience building the service and data infrastructure behind it [http://datapeek.org/interview/alfadata](http://datapeek.org/interview/alfadata)

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> Nice visualisations! Note that (if you're a little OCD about this like me) you can append a ; to the last matplotlib command in a block to suppress the text that appears before notebook inline plots.

</comment><comment><USER22> what's the function that returns from the pandas dataframe the foul that the german goalkeeper made to Higuain?

Jokes aside, pretty good article. I am an Argentinean, so consider that a lot.

<comment><USER23> How about Higuain's miss from the German header back to Neuer?

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> I dont know why this is here and not in [https://datatau.net/](https://datatau.net/)

</comment><comment><USER25> Out of interest, do you guys know of other such great data sources for other games, for example American Football?

Or are those things mostly proprietary?

</comment><comment><USER26> It's surprisingly hard to find practical in-depth pandas code examples like this.

</comment><comment><USER27> How would turn a team into a vector?

</comment><comment><USER28> thanks for sharing this. Want to learn more about this kind of things.</comment>


Ask HN: I want to learn Ruby. What do you have for me? - <AUTHOR>

I know JavaScript fairly well but I want to learn another language. I'm pretty much set on learning Ruby but if you think I should learn another language, feel free to add your opinion.
What books/websites/tutorials do you guys think I should have a look at to learn Ruby?
Edit: I'm also looking to learning Rails and Sinatra in addition Ruby <comment><USER2> Ruby Koans, from the Github repo:

"The Ruby Koans walk you along the path to enlightenment in order to learn Ruby. The goal is to learn the Ruby language, syntax, structure, and some common functions and libraries. We also teach you culture by basing the koans on tests. Testing is not just something we pay lip service to, but something we live. Testing is essential in your quest to learn and do great things in Ruby."

[http://rubykoans.com/](http://rubykoans.com/)

</comment><comment><USER3> [http://learncodethehardway.org/](http://learncodethehardway.org/) This is a good place to start.

[http://pine.fm/LearnToProgram/](http://pine.fm/LearnToProgram/) This is another excellent resource.

Good luck.

</comment><comment><USER4> Software as a Service class (Berkeley CS169.1x) [https://www.edx.org/course/berkeley/cs169-1x/software- servic...](https://www.edx.org/course/berkeley/cs169-1x/software-service/1136)

</comment><comment><USER5> For Rails, you should start with the excellent Rails Tutorial

[http://ruby.railstutorial.org/](http://ruby.railstutorial.org/)

</comment><comment><USER6> [http://users.aber.ac.uk/cwl/ruby/shroeder- slides.pdf](http://users.aber.ac.uk/cwl/ruby/shroeder-slides.pdf)

</comment><comment><USER7> Rubymonk.com is really great.</comment>


Interview with the trauma surgeon who took care of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev - <AUTHOR> https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/03/11/tending-to-tsarnaev <comment><USER2> I's always surprising to me when doctors treating "bad guys" are asked about how they feel about it. Some kind of revenge mentality I guess is to blame.

</comment><comment><USER3> I would be interested to know if the care he received changed his own perception of his actions. And I mean not what he would answer publicly to this question, but if he wondered while recovering in the hospital bed the paradox of the situation.

</comment><comment><USER4> My God the blinking cursor on that page (search box) is driving me MAD.</comment>


How to Fix the App Store - <AUTHOR> https://mohamed.attahri.com/posts/how-to-fix-apple-app-store <comment><USER2> PWAs need to be pushed more. PWAs are more private and don't have access to things that could contain sensitive information like the clipboard's contents which are often scraped and uploaded to shady C2s by some apps

<comment><USER3> There's a Clipboard API [https://developer.mozilla.org/en- US/docs/Web/API/Clipboard_A...](https://developer.mozilla.org/en- US/docs/Web/API/Clipboard_API)

<comment><USER2> ...That is often abused [https://in.mashable.com/tech/12219/tiktok-and-other- popular-...](https://in.mashable.com/tech/12219/tiktok-and-other-popular-ios- apps-are-spying-on-your-iphone-clipboard)

<comment><USER3> Indeed.

You mentioned

> PWAs are more private and don't have access to things that could contain > sensitive information like the clipboard's contents

Do PWAs -- Web applications built with JavaScript, among other Web technologies -- have access to standard Web API offering? If so, then PWAs offer no advantage with respect to your claim. How does using a PWA provide a more secure environment for the user?

<comment><USER2> The JS API is a bit safer as the user has to "explicitly enable this feature". Although in some browsers, full access is granted. Thanks for pointing it out. Another reason to surf with JS disabled and whitelist for sites that require it.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


What If YouTube, Facebook, And Skype Advertised In The 60′s? - <AUTHOR> http://www.prosebeforehos.com/image-of-the-day/08/05/what-if-youtube-facebook-and-skype-advertised-in-the-60s/

<comment><USER2> Can anyone here confirm that this was the way ad copy was written back then? It seems so alien; I can't put a finger on why.

<comment><USER3> I've flagged the original submission as the sort of fluff best pushed elsewhere, but to answer your earnestly-offered question:

Ad language of the past is very odd for modern hearers/listeners -- moreso, I think, than normal conversation would be, because advertising communication is trying so hard to be fashionable, be convincing, and stay ahead of audience rhetoric-resistance. Those weird appeals worked once, then burnt out from overuse. Our own era's commercial puffery will seem even more odd, decades from now.

If you want to see real dated ad copy, James Lileks' 'Lint' Tumblog is great:

<http://lileks.tumblr.com/>

(These Facebook/Skype/YouTube mockups don't quite get the voice, typography, or design right -- despite a valiant effort, they veer a little more in the direction of broken chinglish than 60s product touting.)</comment></comment>


Vitamin D, Calcium Supplements May Be Unnecessary - <AUTHOR> http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-11-30/vitamin-d-calcium-supplements-may-be-unnecessary.html <comment><USER2> The article is confusing. It doesn't state how much vitamin D is too much or what the consequences of having too much vitamin D are. Then there is this paragraph:

"The body also makes vitamin D from the sun, although in the winter in the northern half of the U.S., the sun is not strong enough for vitamin D production. While their diet may not supply enough vitamin D for many people, the sun provides enough to make up the difference, the report said."

Apparently, in the winter people should take vitamin D supplements.

<comment><USER3> I read it to be saying that even in the north, (I live in Seattle) you are fine with the vitamin D from your diet and the sun that you get.

However, I can't see how that's possible. For at least two months of the year, I basically only see the sun on weekends, and it's usually cloudy. (Plus, I don't eat the vitamin D fortified foods they mention, but that's probably not true for most people here).

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Any thoughts. Could there have been some flaws in their study?

<comment><USER4> If this is the study I'm thinking of, these are bone/calcium specialists looking at calcium _and_ Vitamin D and are judging required D based on calcium in the body.

Given that D has a lot more functions than that, it's ... limited in utility at best. I have heard that D testing is a bit messy, though.

For a counterpart observation, if you're white, at a low enough latitude and get (nearly) whole body sun exposure for 30 minutes during the summer, your body generates a self-regulated amount of D of 10,000 IU (or maybe a bit more, I forget exactly how much). Regulated in that staying out longer won't increase the amount you get per day.

That suggests various obvious things, especially about safe maximum levels of D in your body.

One final comment: as far as I can tell, with the exception of Vitamin C to a certain extent, you simply cannot study one or two required nutrients in isolation. E.g. if you have too little of X, Y or Z you may not absorb enough D in your body. Ditto for too much of M, N or P. Then there's questions of "how much fiber in the meal?", is there enough fat for the fat soluble stuff, etc. etc.

And our general knowledge of digestion and what goes on in the digestive tract it pathetic. Did you know that you've got more bacteria in your gut than you have cells in your body?</comment></comment>


Forget sudoku – Japan has produced hundreds of other fiendish logic problems - open-source-ux https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/oct/10/puzzle-masters-japan-sudoku-tokyo <comment><AUTHOR> Sudoku isn't Japanese. It was invented by an American in 1979 and published in Dell Magazines with the band "Number Place". It "migrated" to Japan a few years later, where it was renamed Sudoku.

</comment><comment><USER2> We have minesweeper :)</comment>


Stanford StartX Demo Day - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2012/02/10/startx-demo-day-a-direct-link-between-silicon-valley-and-top-stanford-student-entrepreneurs/ <comment><USER2> StartX is a great accelerator that really values founder growth and education. Highly recommended for any Stanford founders.

<comment><USER3> Agree 100%. As someone who's been through the program, I can attest that it's an amazing experience, and people behind it do a remarkable job of upping their game even more from session to session. I'm eagerly looking forward to seeing the companies that come out of it in the years to come.

Seeing as they take no equity and provide a ton of value, it really should be a no-brainer for any team with a founder with a Stanford affiliation to apply.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Although I applaud the focus on health care in this batch I think the real issue is human rather than technological.

Some years ago I did a project for an affiliate to the Danish health department.

I was working on an interface that would allow for better tracking and thus early warning of a flu epidemic. This was done through doctors reporting when ever they had a patient.

It turned out that the real bottleneck was to get the doctors to report. There simply wasn't the right incentive.

I have also had other experiences within this field which made me realize just how hard a problem the human factor is.

So it seems to me at least that they real challenge to solve is how to get the data into to the systems rather than the actual systems themselves.

At least in Denmark (and we are pretty progressive when it comes to tech) this is a huge problem.

<comment><USER5> _So it seems to me at least that they real challenge to solve is how to get the data into to the systems rather than the actual systems themselves._

That's easy. Simply link the reporting system and payment system. In the US, doctors pick a super-specific set of diagnoses for each patient visit, and then send the insurance companies supporting data to ensure they get paid. There's your data.

<comment><USER4> I don't believe it's that easy, which is why it's not solved yet</comment></comment></comment>


Analyse Asia Podcast 24: The Risk Driven Business Model with Serguei Netessine - <AUTHOR> http://analyse.asia/2015/03/28/episode-24-the-risk-driven-business-model-with-serguei-netessine/ <comment><AUTHOR> Episode synopsis: Professor Serguei Netessine (@snetesin) joined us to discuss his book "The Risk Driven Business Model" (co-written with Karan Girotra). In the discussion, he explained the theme of the book in coming up with the four key questions that will define any company, with examples of companies not just from the US but also in Asia. Finally, he also talked about his role as a business school professor in guiding the students and alumni from INSEAD Business School, Singapore and an angel investor within the various ecosystems from US to Singapore with interesting companies such as RedMart, TabSquare and EditSuits, which are forming the successful entrepreneurial footprint in Southeast Asia and beyond.</comment>


Proposition Bet: I'll work on your startup for free - <AUTHOR>

Here's my proposition:
a) You're a startup that's pre-series A or less than 5 people
b) You're using a technology that I'm familiar with (Javascript or Ruby)
c) You use an OSI-approved license and release the portion of code you want me to work on
What's the catch? I want to work on interesting projects for small startups, and my employer sponsors me to spend a portion of my time working on open source projects.
Also, I believe it's fundamentally in the best interest of most startups to release as much source code as they possibly can, both altruistically, and for selfish reasons like building an ecosystem and public relations.
Other people are obviously welcome to join in, since it'll be open license and publicly available. Thoughts? <comment><USER2> We need you guys!

Quick summary of our start-up: Urbien lets you (devs and their grandmas) build/fork/re-skin/connect apps that live and play together in an app network with direct data-sharing (no APIs), all from a smartphone.

Semi-quick summary: At Urbien we implemented MVC with a generic view and controller, so that devs only need to write models. We then created a UI for model creation that runs on smartphones. Our goal is to simplify mobile web app creation to the point where complete noobs can start easy and learn gradually. The danger with such frameworks-for-noobs is that eventually you hit a wall. We try hard to avoid that: you can replace any template in-place, soon you will be able to replace views and all other assets of the application.

If you want to get involved, we are chronically understaffed, over-ambitious, and really really really good-looking. We have tons of interesting projects, and/or you can design your own project, seeing as you're working for free. In fact, we're not profitable yet so you don't have to worry about forced compensation.

Email me and let's set up a Skype session?

Our rapidly evolving open source mobile client (JS): <http://github.com/urbien/urbini>

</comment><comment><USER3> I would be up for doing the same.

</comment><comment><USER4> I have a startup, profitable. Would be interested in chatting further.

<comment><AUTHOR> Email is in my profile :)</comment></comment>


VPN.sh - £1/year VPN in 21 worldwide locations - <AUTHOR> http://www.vpn.sh/paywhatyouwant.php

<comment><USER2> Got one for myself. I admit I don't really have a real use for this, but the offer is good and they accept bitcoin!

</comment><comment><USER3> A great idea and a great offer. One thing that always worries me though: my first welcome email included my account password (that is, the one I used when signing up as opposed to the one needed for VPN use) in plain text. Isn't that a big no-no for security?

<comment><AUTHOR> This is currently in review - however generally this is seen as a "no-no" if the passwords are also __stored __in plaintext - which they are not. Hope this helps a little, and the fact that it 's in review may give some confidence that it's actually being looked in to.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Probably related: [http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1317642](http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1317642)

edit: actually, maybe not. But similar deal, and more context than just a shopping cart.

<comment><AUTHOR> Offer is still running - further information on the specific offer than just the WHT link can be found here: [http://pwyw.vpn.sh](http://pwyw.vpn.sh)

Nice find on the WHT link though :D

<comment><USER4> That's a much better link, thanks!

<comment><AUTHOR> No worries :) feel free to share it around, as it's likely to disappear before 2014 starts!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Why do they require all the personal data for the account including place of residence?

</comment><comment><USER6> Having a VPN service like this is useful for testing Geo-based features.

I've used / can recommend [https://wonderproxy.com/](https://wonderproxy.com/)

</comment><comment><USER7> Sadly it's only 20GB traffic but then again for £1 per year that seems okay.</comment>


Pikspot launches, joins media mashup fray - <AUTHOR> http://www.webware.com/8301-1_109-9713694-2.html?tag=blog <comment><USER2> Finally, they've been in development for a while.

I'm not quite sure on the exact purpose of the site yet. Perhaps it'll surface once it gains momentum.</comment>


The Mobile Downturn - <AUTHOR> http://avc.com/2014/04/the-mobile-downturn/ <comment><USER2> > _the smartphone emerging as the platform of choice vs the desktop browser_

This is repeated from blog to blog but is it really true?

Smartphones outsell desktops because you change phones every 18 months while a desktop will last maybe a decade or more; but do people really _prefer_ to use their phone if they have a choice?

It would seem to me people who use a phone most of the time are people who don't have easy access to a desktop: young people, or people who don't have a job or whose job keeps them away from a desk (lucky them!)

When I'm around people who use a smartphone, I never see them engaged in anything more complex than listening to music, texting, or playing some super- simple game such as CandyCrush; they're never "browsing" anything, searching, writing, composing, etc.

So if you're doing social or communications, sure, mobile first makes a lot of sense, but how about other domains?

Do people use Github from mobile platforms? The Github app for Android apparently has "100,000+ downloads", which doesn't seem like a lot?

It would be interesting to know the numbers for Github (for example), of mobile vs. desktop usage.

<comment><USER3> _> When I'm around people who use a smartphone, I never see them engaged in anything more complex than listening to music, texting, or playing some super- simple game such as CandyCrush; they're never "browsing" anything, searching, writing, composing, etc._

The thing is, for the vast majority of people that's all they were doing with their PCs anyway. They weren't composing librettos, they were just checking email and playing Farmville. So to them it doesn't feel like they've lost anything.

<comment><USER4> That rings true, yet casual users are not the only profitable market for software. Not by a long shot. Look at companies like Microsoft, Autodesk, and Adobe. They do very well selling professional software--software that's never going to translate well to a phone-sized screen.

<comment><USER5> >software that's never going to translate well to a phone-sized screen.

an here is the next multi-billion of dollars :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> He lists the following as big innovations over the last 20 years:

TCP/IP, HTTP, the browser, search, social, mobile, and blockchains.

I know that it's got something to do with Bitcoin, but have no idea what a blockchain is. Wikipedia only references it in a link to blockchain.info, which talks about blocks but not blockchains. Nobody I've asked can explain it to me either.

If it's such a massive innovation (is it?), what is it, and why isn't it easy to discover what it is?

<comment><USER7> From: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin#Block_chain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin#Block_chain)

"Integral to Bitcoin is a sequential record of all transactions known as the block chain. There is only one block chain, and it records bitcoin ownership both present and at all points in the past. By keeping a record of all transactions, the block chain mitigates double-spending, a core design challenge of digital currency. Approximately every ten minutes a new bundle of transactions, called a block, is added to the block chain."

If you need a more in depth explanation, which also covers how this relates to a famous problem in distributed systems (the Byzantine Generals Problem), see: [http://expectedpayoff.com/blog/2013/03/22/bitcoin-and-the- by...](http://expectedpayoff.com/blog/2013/03/22/bitcoin-and-the-byzantine- generals-problem/)

<comment><USER8> Some further context:

Computers all over the world are competing to extend the block chain by solving a problem involving cryptographic hashes. The reward for solving the problem is that a wallet controlled by the machine that does it can claim a Bitcoin reward. The reward is currently, I believe, 25btc --- but it's scheduled to drop over time; eventually to zero, at which point, miners will have to be compensated by claiming transaction fees.

The upshot is that Bitcoin has a system for maintaining a single, global log which is consistent across all connected Bitcoin clients. And while Bitcoin itself uses this as a transaction ledger, there are plenty of other things you might want to use this construct for once you have it. Namecoin, for instance, uses a Bitcoin-like block chain to manage a DNS-like naming scheme.

(There are some weaknesses to the design: most notably, if a single party has more than half the mining compute capacity, they're able to pull off all sorts of chicanery against the community as a whole...)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> He missed something..

Let me explain, what are big networks buying? Think Yahoo, Facebook, Google, MS, etc..

The mobile app now represents user data to buy...and that is what we are seeing in some of the acquirehires buying sprees is that the mobile app is kept alive after the buyout because the firm doing the buying is buying user data.

Thus we still will see some $1B or more home runs if we know and understand what they are buying

<comment><USER10> User data is useful for showing ads that convert well, but the fundamental unit of value in consumer apps isn't _data_ , it's _attention_.

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> We surely reach a more mature phase in the 'mobile apps' market but I believe products will gain in quality in the future and that there are still some opportunities to be seized: \- there was a tremendous amount of apps released over the last few years, it is no wonder that competition is getting fierce: products will have to adapt in terms of quality with better and more curated contents. \- there is still a lot of room for innovation in re-engagement ([http://tomtunguz.com/mobile-reengagement/](http://tomtunguz.com/mobile- reengagement/)), deeplinks (www.urx.com) are a very good start

<comment><USER11> Aside from the fact that most apps are rubbish, the real problem is the move from the open, free, creative web to heavily-censored walled gardens controlled by giant corporations. Also, apps completely invade your privacy.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> I really don't think the block chain is the next platform or even that interesting. What exactly am I missing?</comment>