Wonga is betting that computers are better at lending than banks - <AUTHOR> http://blogs.forbes.com/parmyolson/2011/03/15/the-algorithm-that-beats-your-bank-manager/ <comment><USER2> They're a deeply sleazy company, along with lenders like PayDayUK.

They mass-cold-call people asking to "discuss their application for a loan", when those people haven't made an application.

They send threatening emails to folks saying that loan installments haven't been paid, when those people haven't taken out a loan.

Their tactics are basically bullying and fear.

(No, I haven't ever taken out a loan with either of these companies. Yes I have had to experience both of these annoyances. Yes, so have various other people I know).

<comment><USER3> Have you checked your credit record? - it doesn't seem to make sense to pressure someone who doesn't have a loan, it seems more likely that someones commited identity fraud and used your details to get a loan.

<comment><USER2> I don't think so, because it never goes any further than those initial harrassments. If someone had got a loan in my name, I think I would have received escalating demands, culminating in a court summons. That never happens - they just keep calling wanting to discuss a loan application, or sending emails saying that a payment is overdue.

I suspect they hope that they can just get people to talk to them, and then convince them to take a loan.

If it is "honest" identity fraud, then they obviously don't have the checks in place to deal with it - either way, they're not good companies to deal with (IMO).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I saw an advert for Wonga the other night and noticed the fine print >4000% APR and almost fell out of my chair. The article explains it though, and I'm less concerned for clueless borrowers running up 40k in a year :)

<comment><USER5> If I needed $750 more than I had in the bank, and knew I could pay it all back in a month, I would put some of my expenses on plastic. Back when I was fresh out of school in a not-very-well-paying job, and _had recently completed a debt management plan to pay off the bills I had run up as an undergrad_ , I got plenty of unsolicited offers for credit cards; eventually I had something like a total credit line over $10K with interest in the 20–25% range.

So who are these people out there who "need" short-term credit so badly, and yet can't find anyone to loan to them at anything short of quadruple-interest rates? Is it really good for society to have a company fill this "need"?

(Just to forestall flag-waving about contracts between consenting adults being sacred: The banking system, without which easy credit would be impossible, is even more dependent on the state than other kinds of private industry. As the de facto lender of last resort, the state has a legitimate interest in what kinds of lending it permits among its citizens.)

<comment><USER6> they prey on the people like a single mother of five trying to make to the payday and who isn't in the state of mind to do the math or other people in the similar "impaired" [for the lack of a better word as i don't mean narrow drug/alcohol impairness] state of mind.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> My friend's sole trading business has an 0845 number which goes straight to voicemail.

On day, he started to receive truly heartbreaking messages of financial hardship, people unable to pay medical bills for their parents, that kind of thing. People were literally crying on his voicemail.

It turned out that his number was just a few digits different from the new Wonga customer service line, and he had to change the number.

<comment><USER8> _people unable to pay medical bills for their parents_

Are you sure about that? I don't want to move the conversation anywhere near healthcare controversy, but the joy of the NHS is that "I can't pay medical bills!" problems never exist :)

<comment><USER7> Sort of, but there is a grey area between what people think they need and what the NHS thinks is necessary.

My mum is a head nurse and has to fill out a 10+ page assessment of the patient's needs which determines what level of at-home care the NHS will provide.

Often, the family will fight this ardently because it might mean they have to pay for a care home or a private carer. These things aren't always provided by the NHS if certain conditions aren't met, and with the recent cuts, or threat of cuts, the bar for care is being set higher.

In this instance, perhaps someone foolishly took out a Wonga loan to pay for their parent's care, or perhaps it was just a sob story all along.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Maybe I'm not the right customer but I don't really see the value.

From the frontpage, they give me £265 today and expect me to pay £294.51 9 days later. With my credit card I get £265 and pay £265 anywhere between 1-30 days later.

Still confused? Is it only for people who can't get a £1000 line of credit?

<comment><USER10> Not everyone has access to a credit card and some don't like the responsibility/risk associated with them, also some people may have reached their limit if they do have one.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I'm glad these guys didn't base their business idea on not primarily concentrating on customers who won't even have a chance to pay their loans from the beginning.

Here in Estonia, some entrepreneurs thought it was nice to mix up text-ing from cells and lending as far back as 2006 already (I think). Basically, you'll only need to provide your personal info with their site (name, Estonian version of SSN, bank account, telephone number), and then you'll be able to get a loan for as much as €1000 by just sending a sms. Most people lose their judgement after few shots of vodka, now imagine if you ran out of money after those two shots and the only thing needed to fix that was to send a SMS. Something that the provider won't be telling you, however, is that those loans come with high interests, sometimes as high as 1000% / year. As a result of that, quite a bunch of uneducated people have lost their homes due to this scheme that still is going on today in our unregulated economy. Seems as if they've now began tapping Swedish market, I wonder when is this going to happen in the U.S.

All in all, I was a text-book liberal before seeing some of the people dealing with results caused by this scheme, now I'm beginning to change my mind.

Also, there's a Wiki page about it: [http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&h...](http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=et&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fet.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FSMS- laen)

</comment><comment><USER6> typical pay day loan shark would charge "outrageous" 300%-1000%, yet they would loan pretty much to anybody, including very high-risk borrowers.

Wonga wants 4000% for loans to the top 30% applicants. Nice try.

</comment><comment><USER12> This company is evil, but something I've always wanted to do is start a deposit bank where all the account decisions are made by algorithms. When a customer emails with a problem, an algorithm analayzes the message and makes the appropriate decision (refunding fees, chargeback, etc.) The amount of money saved by not having any customer service people would allow the outcomes to be more customer-favorable (sure, we'll refund that) without affecting profits.

(The prerequisite I'd need to get started with this is an archive of emails- to-the-bank with their outcome.)

<comment><USER6> basically you want to start a typical bad bank where one would spend half-a- day trying to get through the menus to solve a simple account mistake/issue

<comment><USER12> No, there are no menus. "Click here to email customer service." The software handles the rest.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> How right do you have to be when running a payday loan scam?

<comment><USER10> Since when have payday loans been a scam? That's a very silly view and in my opinion doesn't fit the entrepreneurial _spirit_. Payday loans are valuable to a large number of people and a large number can and do handle them successfully. It's not a _scam_ , it's just easy to screw up with.

is gambling a scam? are mortgages a scam? are "normal" loans a scam? are vc investments a scam? etc etc

<comment><USER14> If you're responsible but low on funds, payday loans can be a godsend. The interest is often lower than your checking account's overdraft charge, for example. If I was short between paychecks, I'd get charged $20 for each bill I have set on autopay.

<comment><USER12> Or you could just not pay the bills.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Only for the UK, at this stage. No way to enter a US work phone number.

</comment><comment><USER16> "Wonga"

I never would have learned that word without Damon Hill.</comment>


Janrain will shut down myOpenID.com on 1st Feb 2014 - <AUTHOR>

Hello,
I wanted to reach out personally to let you know that we have made the decision to end of life the myOpenID service. myOpenID will be turned off on February 1, 2014.
In 2006 Janrain created myOpenID to fulfill our vision to make registration and login easier on the web for people. Since that time, social networks and email providers such as Facebook, Google, Twitter, LinkedIn and Yahoo! have embraced open identity standards. And now, billions of people who have created accounts with these services can use their identities to easily register and login to sites across the web in the way myOpenID was intended.
By 2009 it had become obvious that the vast majority of consumers would prefer to utilize an existing identity from a recognized provider rather than create their own myOpenID account. As a result, our business focus changed to address this desire, and we introduced social login technology. While the technology is slightly different from where we were in 2006, I'm confident that we are still delivering on our initial promise – that people should take control of their online identity and are empowered to carry those identities with them as they navigate the web.
For those of you who still actively use myOpenID, I can understand your disappointment to hear this news and apologize if this causes you any inconvenience. To reduce this inconvenience, we are delaying the end of life of the service until February 1, 2014 to give you time to begin using other identities on those sites where you use myOpenID today.
Speaking on behalf of Janrain, I truly appreciate your past support of myOpenID.
Sincerely, Larry <comment><AUTHOR> I'm still using myOpenId for various services.

I use them specifically because they aren't "Facebook, Google, Twitter, LinkedIn and Yahoo!".

Is anyone else in the same boat?

<comment><USER2> Yes. I love the simple green interface and the custom domain option.

This will be a very very sad day for the Internet. OpenID could have been such a game changer in this era of monopolies.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I'm using MyOpenID but with a delegation through my own website. In theory transitioning to another provider should just be about changing meta tags in my homepage. However, some consumers store the delegated OpenID URL instead of the one given by the user, which makes transitioning more painful than it has to be.

</comment><comment><USER4> Sadly, federated identity has been co-opted in service of "tracking" by the centralized silos mentioned.</comment>


The Slow Web - <AUTHOR> http://jackcheng.com/the-slow-web <comment><USER3> I love the term and I love the idea.

I consider the Slow Food movement to be one of the most important movements for true quality of life (at least as far as first-world problems go), and with the sort of always-on environment that typical white-collar workers experience in today's post-Twitter mobile world, I think tech can just as readily destroy people's lives as fast food does. This makes me sad because I've been instinctively drawn to tech for my entire life and I don't want to believe that we need to somehow forcibly detach from tech to lead balanced and sane lives. There is a way for tech to be enriching without stress or compulsion inducing. I'm totally behind The Slow Web and look forward to my own contributions in years to come.

<comment><USER4> > I consider the Slow Food movement to be one of the most important movements > for true quality of life

It's amusing that it has to be a "movement", because prior to a few decades ago everyone was part of the "slow food movement".

<comment><USER3> I don't think it's amusing in the least. Have you looked around recently at people's diet and health? It's not just fast food, but convenience foods in general are huge business, and it's people largely bought into the marketing simply because they offer ever increasing taste and convenience. There are huge margins to be made by processing the same mono-culture grains into ever more refined and perfected addictive foodstuffs. Even government policy is shaped by this profit motive because who else is lobbying on farm policy?

Food policy an America is a perfect example of where capitalism fails to take into account externalities, in this case the externality is health and wellbeing which has always been recognized as of paramount importance, but nevertheless remains difficult to quantify in economic terms due to the inherent complexities involved. Unless we stop and think critically about it, we are doomed to sacrifice our health to a huge money-making apparatus in exchange for a bit of well-engineered flavor.

The status quo which most of of us have known for our entire lives is what necessitates a movement. Perhaps I'm taking your comment in the wrong spirit, but I think it's something that needs to be taken seriously by everyone living in industrialized countries.

<comment><USER5> Spoken truly like someone who has no idea what they are talking about.

At present industrial countries spend between 9-11% of their annual income on foodstuffs and less than 5% of their time gathering said foodstuffs - <USER2> lowest in time/money expenditure for food in the history of the world.[1]

If we die slightly earlier due to a _possible_ rise in cardiovascular disease then it was a small price to pay for saving years in productive time.

Also, fast food firms are an easy target but when pressed for an answer, the team at Freakonomics made a pretty good case that a McDonalds hamburger is possibly the greatest foodstuff when balanced between cost, speed, safety and bountifulness of nutrients.[2]

The real problem with convenience food is not the nutritional content (which is perfectly adequate and superior to most diets across a historical timeline)is the unsustainable agricultural and water scarcity burden it places on the planet.

[1][http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/06/08/154568945/what- ame...](http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/06/08/154568945/what-america- spends-on-groceries) [2][http://www.marketplace.org/topics/sustainability/freakonomic...](http://www.marketplace.org/topics/sustainability/freakonomics- radio/freakonomics-can-mcdouble-save-humanity)

<comment><USER6> There's more to food than nutrition. The process of growing, preparing, and eating food has been a major source of social connection and "quality time," which is in my opinion the most significant value of slow food for well-being. You can get the nutrition you need with a pittance today in terms of economics, but as a society I think we've failed to fill the social gap that was left open by our liberation from the work of eating well. I'm not saying that the gap _has_ to be filled by food (there are probably even better things we could do), just that the slow food movement is using it that way. Filling it with productive work as you describe certainly has economic value, but I think the cost in terms of happiness for some of us kills the reward.

<comment><USER7> > There's more to food than nutrition. The process of growing, preparing, and > eating food has been a major source of social connection and "quality time," > which is in my opinion the most significant value of slow food for well- > being.

Have you ever been involved in the process of growing food? A workday on the farm is substantially longer than any office job, the only way to talk to people is to scream because they're at least thirty meters away from you most of the time. At the end of it you're drained and people who have been doing it all their lives get to live the last years of their lives with terrible back pains and having to rely on the young folks for, um, growing food, because it turns out doing manual labour for twelve hours a day isn't so easy when you're eighty. There's anything but quality time in that.

Edit: It also turns out that, with foodstuffs having to be so cheap, this kind of work was also very badly paid, which meant that except for people who owned huge amounts of land (and generally didn't work all, or more commonly _any_ of it), people who had to do this were, if not dirt poor, in any case poor enough not to be able to afford too much. It's the fact that we lost all this chance to have "quality time" that allows us to heartily debate such matters through silicon stuff that shoves charge carriers through really thin glass tubes.

<comment><USER6> I own a farm, and work on it every day with my family, so yes, I do have personal experience with it. It turns out that working together on something you value seems to build relationships, at least in our case.

<comment><USER7> How big a family and how big a farm? My grandparents used to have one, too. As they grew old and the family either shrank or less of it became available for regular fieldwork, it simply became unsustainable for them. They kept a small- ish garden that provides them with most of the fruits and vegetables they eat fresh, some livestock, and rented the rest of the land.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I remember coming across this article some months ago, and reading a little more into it. The language used in a lot of writing around this "movement" makes it sound like we're in a constant state of panic thanks to all our notifications. Nothing wrong with trying to get the point across, but it feels a little extreme to me.

The main takeaway (and it's a worthy one) is to respect your users and their time. Your app may be the most important thing in the world to _you_ , but that doesn't mean that everyone using it wants to be instantly notified of every little event within it. Unless your app is responsible for mission- critical or time-sensitive stuff (messaging, etc), chances are your users don't need more than a weekly (or _maybe_ daily) summary - and if they'd like to be notified via push, then make it an option that's __off __by default.

</comment><comment><USER9> Would anyone use an email service which delivers email and updates inbox at one specific time of the day and doesn't allow any alternatives? My friends found this idea ridiculous. But I'd love the peace of mind. I used to love writing letters and waiting for days for a reply.

<comment><USER10> That would be awesome, I think, for some types of people. Could be applied to social networks as well.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> See also: [http://theslowweb.com](http://theslowweb.com) (used to be at .org but I forgot to do some renewals last year)

</comment><comment><USER12> Like the idea and the article, but was astonished by this:

> daily things that improve your life in small but beneficial ways, like > flossing, meditating, or tracking your weight

Ok for meditating, maybe. But flossing? Tracking weight? I'd say obsession with hygiene and fitness is very detrimental to one's quality of life. I'd find hundreds more relevant ways to improve one's life in small steps: Eating good unprocessed food, Having an aimless walk once a week, Gardening, Reading books written more than 50 years ago, Listening to the music you like, etc.

I don't know what to do with this remark. Maybe our Amercanized civilisation has an exagerated focus on body hygiene. Something that once saved lives (doctors and nurses washing hands often) became an obsession the makes many people miserable (brushing teeth trice a day, removing any form of pubic pilosity, flossing, weight-watching).

<comment><USER13> Obsession is unhealthy. Brushing your teeth twice a day is not. Some people struggle to get the basic important things done without reminders!

Also: Tracking weight is far from "obsession". If you need to lose (or gain) weight, tracking is one of the simplest and most effective things you can start doing. You can't improve what you aren't measuring!

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Sorry but this article and "movement" are a bunch of bullshit. People have always been in control of when they look at their computers or phones. If all your apps are notifying you too much, fix it in the settings, or uninstall them. Is this really a real problem people have in their lives?

If so just put away the phone and put some of that extra money towards making others lives better; there are lots of people that need it, that don't have the income or influence to solve those problems on their own. Have some perspective in how you spend your money!

</comment><comment><USER15> In working on TBRSS, which is intended as a _technical_ solution to the problem of the fast web, I have increasingly come to suspect that it is, in the _social_ sense, much too late. There is an entire generation of people out there to whom twitchy connectivity is simply the norm, to whom the idea of not having a button to hit or a prompt to answer every few minutes is actually frightening.

</comment><comment><USER16> I maintain a collection of links around this idea here: [http://x.are.na/geHSysW](http://x.are.na/geHSysW)

</comment><comment><USER17> Another good one is [http://slowerinternet.com](http://slowerinternet.com)

</comment><comment><USER18> While I was reading about the daily emails, I couldn't help but think that the slow web was just marketing speak for their chosen technical infrastructure. Ie. they run a midnight CRON job that parses all the emails because that's easy/cheap.

</comment><comment><USER4> For an example of a slow web social network, see Uncommon. I love it.

[http://uncommon.cc](http://uncommon.cc)

<comment><USER19> Looks like a very interesting social network.

BUT the presentation of the homepage felt too slow. Revealing a few words at a time quickly lost its appeal.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> I call this the slow feed movement :)

</comment><comment><USER21> FWIW, my rule of thumb to determine if something is "fast food": If you paid before you ate, it was fast food.

<comment><USER22> I dunno, the whole fast casual movement seems to be catching on here. And most of the fast casual places are catering to people who want a fast meal but with real, fresh, non-processed ingredients. My rule would put a lot more focus on the existence of a drive through window and pre-processed ingredients.

<comment><USER23> I don't think those rules work. Many (nearly all ?) restaurants use some kind of pre-processed ingredients. And many fast-food places don't have a drive through window. In for instance Thailand the entire concept is even completely unheard of.

My rule would be that it's large chain (or copy thereof), "system catering" ( [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_catering](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_catering) ) and the aforementioned pay before you eat rule.</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Review my startup, ideapi.com - <AUTHOR>

ideapi is a document collaboration tool that we would really appreciate some feedback on.
http://ideapi.com/
ideapi allows teams and individuals to manage, create and discuss documents online, with permissions and workflow.
The app is now out of beta and has a user base of around 400 users. We are looking to push a second round of marketing after gathering and digesting feedback on the latest release.
We are a self-funded startup based in London, UK. <comment><AUTHOR> clickable link - <http://ideapi.com>

</comment><comment><USER2> I like your nice light design and UI.

Designers on Mac wheels? )

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks - yes we are all Mac heads at the company that developed it! (<http://pebbleit.com>)

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Love the creative ambigram logo

</comment><comment><USER4> Try <http://upstartly.com/></comment>


Pair Programming Is Not a Panacea (2014) - <AUTHOR> http://www.mattgreer.org/articles/pair-programming-is-not-a-panacea/ <comment><USER2> Pair programming:

expert-expert:

\- ya

\- hu-hum...

\- ya

\- look... I'm way overloaded with work

\- same here

\- do you think we should both work on our stuff independently

\- sure, It'll be more efficient this way, see you at lunch

expert-novice:

\- but why are you assigning this?

\- well, it's the counter and it has to start at zero

\- well, shouldn't you use an accessor?

\- an accessor for a counter?... (sigh)

\- ya, we may want to change the counter to a float one day

\- (silence) [adds the stupid accessor to have him shut up]

\- and this should be a singleton

\- (silence) [adds the stupid singleton with the ominous feeling of sinking deeper into depression, loosing any sense of passion]

\- I was thinking, since we have an accessor for our counter, shouldn't we create a factory to automate instanciation too?

\- [leaves for a cigarette break and never comes back... to this day, the whereabouts of this pragmatic programmer is unknown]

novice-novice:

\- Let's make an accessor!

\- Yeah! and let's make a singleton!

\- Yeah! and a factory? (honhonhon) [it's a french dude]

\- Sure! and maybe we should have a red-black tree of factories, imagine the power!

\- Woooaa! I can't fathom the power! I never heard of such a thing!... it's AWESOME! ... Maybe we should template all of this

\- you're reading my mind!

\- ...

<comment><USER3> expert-novice: funny, but the expert is not doing the job. You're there to teach. If you're not going to, why bother?

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> In order for me to reach my highest level of productivity while programming, I need to be able to focus, and think, without interruptions or distractions. I simply cannot achieve that while having to interact constantly with some other person. IMO, there are occasions where pair programming makes sense, but those occasions are few and far between. To make it a standard, mandatory practice on a team is insane. I suspect it's often done to make the weaklings appear productive.

<comment><USER5> 'Pair Debugging' in my experience, is much more effective than Pair programming.

And the constant "No, no that line"... Ugh!

<comment><USER6> Drives me nuts when the line numbers are turned off while pairing. That's the first thing I tell them to enable. Can't understand why that's a default for IDEs or people in general.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> To quote DevOps Borat: "Pair programming is good concept but is involve too many programmer."

[https://twitter.com/devops_borat/status/300037586523676672](https://twitter.com/devops_borat/status/300037586523676672)

</comment><comment><USER8> I think this might be best read as "Nothing is a panacea"

</comment><comment><USER9> I'm a fan of side by side programming.

This is where both people have their own computer. Both work on quasi- independent problems, but are free to ask the other questions and bounce ideas off them. Basically, stay far enough away in the code to not create to many merge conflicts, but close enough that you both can keep a mental model of your work and the others work.

I prefer to share a whiteboard rather than a keyboard.

</comment><comment><USER10> I found pair programming great, when another developer and I were architecting the foundations of business app. After that we were able to split of portions of the app such as various worksheets type pages, to ourselves and junior developers pretty easily.

</comment><comment><USER11> Pair programming really only answers the question: "How can I make sure my programmer's death/departure doesn't stall the project?"

Documented code is a less expensive way to answer that question.

<comment><USER12> well documented code is hard to come by- I only encounterd it once- an then only in an lib where the API was well documented.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Did anyone ever say it was?

<comment><USER14> I'm the author of the blog post and I now see I didn't make the context clear enough. I wrote that post after leaving a company that 100% pair programmed all the time. I'll update the blog post next time I get a chance.

<comment><USER11> Do you find that your programming habits are altered after having programmed in that configuration for a time? I ask this because the only other programmer (the team lead at my current company) I've known who did pair programming seems to be "stuck" in that mode. He can only work with one other programmer on a single project. It feel it makes him a terrible team lead.

<comment><USER14> I really hate pair programming, so I've very easily switched away from it. With that said, even with my hatred for it I can recognize when it has value. We never pair program at my current job, and the truth is there are times we should.

Not sure about your team lead, it doesn't match my experience.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Hacker News Leaders - <AUTHOR> https://news.ycombinator.com/leaders

<comment><USER2> I'd be interested in a break down between comments and submissions.

</comment><comment><USER3> At the risk of gamification, could we also get total numbers of users (those with karma I guess) and maybe a std deviation

on a seperate, less desperate how am I doing note, and I assume it has been covered before but I missed it, is there any likelihood of releasing the archives / backups - I would be fascinated to see who ranges far and wide over subjects, who converses with whom most, in fact pretty much everything that looks fun in graph work and NLP is in HN.

Just a thought - but failing that, yes how am I doing :-)

<comment><USER2> You're doing fine.</comment></comment>


The Well, a Pioneering Online Community, Is for Sale Again - <AUTHOR> http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/29/the-well-a-pioneering-online-community-is-for-sale-again/ <comment><USER2> "Pioneering"</comment>


Eating Our Way to Death, Literally - <AUTHOR> http://thinksimplenow.com/health/eating-our-way-to-death-literally/ <comment><USER2> the china study is not scientific. the major difference between the american diet and others is sugar intake.</comment>


Show HN: A DigitalOcean-like support community for your website in 3 minutes - <AUTHOR> https://haash.io/support-communities.html <comment><USER2> I'd suggest allowing people to signup via email.

Many people don't want to attach their social accounts to business functions.

<comment><USER3> Many people would not be permitted to attach their social accounts. My workplace requires that we associate our accounts strictly through things they will be able to access after employees leave (IE a company email address).

<comment><AUTHOR> Sorry about that, we'll add email signup very soon

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> This is epic. As a former-digitaloceaner I know how much work went into building the community (the community director at DigitalOcean is incredibly good at her job) and how well it as served the business. If you have the ability and time to build a community around your product, I highly recommend it, brand evangelists are something you simply cannot buy.

<comment><USER5> However, if you can pay people to write high-quality documentation, you can use money to attract brand evangelists.

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> For those frustrated that there's no email signup, please fill in this form [https://haaash.typeform.com/to/IOrUUI](https://haaash.typeform.com/to/IOrUUI) . We'll notify you once we add it very soon. Thank you!

</comment><comment><USER6> I like it. In fact I have a project in mind for which I might use it next year.

I think your pricing model might need a bit of work though. I think you're offering too much in the free tier (particularly given that I can run a free community with unlimited entries but have to pay $94/month for 50000 on the other plan), and pricing per registered community user might be worth looking into.

Other than that I'll definitely come back in the new year when I'm ready to give it a try.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you, we'll definitely fine tune as we learn.

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> A DigitalOcean like support community for your website in 3 minutes Hi, Soufian from Haash here, i've always found DigitalOcean support community [https://www.digitalocean.com/community/questions](https://www.digitalocean.com/community/questions) smart and fascinating. A clever way to deliver support and manage knowledge. One of the reasons they came from nothing and became rapidly popular.

Haash is basically getting the same community support hosted space in few seconds. Just signup, create, tweak it to match your website feel and start using it.

Would be happy to answer any questions

<comment><USER7> Small piece of feedback but I would increase the contrast of your fonts to make it a bit easier to read (it's far from the worst I've seen but if you compare it to the DO community you link to, theirs is easier to read).

Also, the home view eg. [https://slack.haash.io/](https://slack.haash.io/) feels quite wide and is hard to look across to see the 'Date' and 'Views' which are all the way to the right. When you click into a question eg. [https://slack.haash.io/151/how-can-remove-files-that- deactiv...](https://slack.haash.io/151/how-can-remove-files-that-deactivated- members-have-uploaded) this width seems good and is easier to scan.

Overall I like the clean and simple approach. Very little noise to distract you which is nice.

<comment><USER8> > I would increase the contrast of your fonts to make it a bit easier to read

Changing it from 300 weight Lato to 400 weight of the same font would also help.

<comment><AUTHOR> Got it, we'll revise it sure,

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Nice idea, I like it. Not sure about the name at all. Sounds like marijuana distribution as as service :).

<comment><USER10> Well that would be profitable from day one...

<comment><AUTHOR> Guaranteed!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Always start with email signup first. Not the other way around. You just lost a ton of potential beta-testers and users on your HN moment.

<comment><AUTHOR> Got it, We though Twitter & Facebook are a good way to get people easily onboarded and their details filled in effortlessly.

PS: For those afraid of any privacy issues, the permissions are very basic, we do only get your email, avatar and short bio.

<comment><USER12> Social accounts are fine for consumer products but many people justifiably don't want to use them for business products. Keeping them separate is a key part of business hygiene.

For me, it's _not_ about the privacy issues. It's that accounts tied to my personal social networks are much harder to transfer/remove/control.

<comment><AUTHOR> We've put up this form [https://haaash.typeform.com/to/IOrUUI](https://haaash.typeform.com/to/IOrUUI) for those who exclusively want to sign up with email. We'll add email sign up very soon and let you know. Thank you!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> The UI of your site needs to be a little reworked. I don't want to click on every single FAQ question and get taken to another site, for example. Also, being able to only login with FB or Twitter is not acceptable. There absolutely need to be free accounts, as well as Google Account Logins.

A nice idea, needs some remodel and some smoothing out edges.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you feedback noted. We'll add email login and fine tune the UI soon

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Is there a 'whitelabel' capability with this service? Ie, could I point community.mysite.com at your servers with a cname record? Does anyone else care about this?

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes you can use your own domain name with a CNAME. Email me at malih.soufian at gmail.com once you create your Haash and we'll make the config for you

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> One thing you may consider is having private or invite only communities. Almost all the offerings out there are for public communities, which leaves in house self help an untapped market.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes that's a good way to go to. Although you might hack Haash right now to not show questions and answers to the public, we might consider a sophisticated version of that.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> Tried to read the terms and conditions.. got an error [0]

Whilst you are there, the terms and conditions aren't obviously clickable.

Also, would love to be able to sign up with email, but only get Facebook / Twitter auth options. Ironically the tab is titled "Log in with email | Haash"

That aside, I can see this being useful, really like the setup.

0: [https://s12.postimg.org/z1cuq8lzh/Screenshot_2016_11_23_14_3...](https://s12.postimg.org/z1cuq8lzh/Screenshot_2016_11_23_14_32_07.png)

<comment><USER16> Same error on haash creation terms too.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for catching that we'll dig into that

<comment><AUTHOR> Can you retry now?

<comment><USER16> Thanks for following up. Still seeing the error.

email is in my profile if you want help troubleshooting.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> To create an account, you have to agree to the terms of service:

"By signing up you indicate that you have read and agree to the Terms of the service"

Being a conscientious user, I click through to read what I'm agreeing to and find:

"You do not have permission to perform this operation"

IANAL but I'm pretty sure this won't be legally binding.

<comment><AUTHOR> Sorry about that, it seems like we misspelled the link

<comment><USER17> No need to apologize ... I just thought you'd want to know.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> $5 a month for the FAQ product? Charge waaaaay more for a product targeted at businesses.

</comment><comment><USER19> I'm using [http://www.question2answer.org/](http://www.question2answer.org/) , how does it compares to it?

Q2A doesn't have: \- instant search \- Intercom integration \- Single Sign-on

<comment><AUTHOR> In addition One-click setup, Realtime notification, Custom URLs FAQs Tutorials management

And other cool stuff we'll be shipping soon

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> I don't get this. Is this different than installing a modern OS forum engine?

<comment><AUTHOR> It's a Q&A which is different from a forum, i will quote Adam Lear [1] from this answer [2] on Stackoverfolw to point out the differences(Stackoverflow being a Q&A)

[quote]

Stack Overflow is not a forum. Forums are largely discussion-based and tend to follow less strict rules about what posts can be like.

On Stack Overflow (and Stack Exchange in general), we require every new thread to be started with a question and every response to that question to be an attempt at answering it.

For example, on a forum you might ask how to run a game in windowed mode. You will get several responses, some of which will be nothing but "oh, I love that game!" or "I haven't played that in a while, wow." You'll be lucky if you get a relevant response. By contrast, on Stack Exchange you'd get practical responses that are 100% relevant to your question.

[end quote]

This model (meaning the Q&A) has been proven to be extremely efficient in managing community driven support. DigitalOcean community [https://www.digitalocean.com/community/questions](https://www.digitalocean.com/community/questions) is one successful example.

Alongside with the Q&A, DigitalOcean introduced Tutorials crowdsourcing which also proved to be a smart and cost efficient vector of educating customers and sharing knowledge.

What Haash does is letting you create a similar support infrastructure at very low price and in just 3 minutes.

[1] [http://meta.stackexchange.com/users/155160/adam- lear](http://meta.stackexchange.com/users/155160/adam-lear) [2] [http://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/92107/is-stack- overf...](http://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/92107/is-stack-overflow-a- forum)

<comment><USER20> Do you provide the community pool as well? I have this confusing feeling but that would sound too good :)

<comment><AUTHOR> Do you mean the stuff to take care of it? We wish we could :) For now it's only the tool

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> [https://buffer.com/](https://buffer.com/) -> [https://haash.io/](https://haash.io/)

<comment><USER22> What do you mean? They are both very different tools, no?

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> I love the branding on this product, very light and fun, also friendly and catchy. It reminds me of dropbox. Great work, maybe when you make some money you can get a good logo to go with it. Good stuff!

<comment><AUTHOR> Awesome, glad you liked the design

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> Cool idea but I would highly suggest that you fix all the misspelled words.

<comment><AUTHOR> Ok we'll so sorry about that

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> Isn't the good thing about community support the people who help rather than the tool that's used to run it? You can't build a community of helpful, interested people in 3 minutes.

<comment><USER26> Call it a lack of coffee but I also clicked out of intrigue as to how they were going to slot your site into a community of willing volunteers.

<comment><AUTHOR> Very funny lol

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> Not sure what's up with the A/B testing though. Plus pricing seems to change between a slider starting at $29/mo and a flat $5/mo fee.

<comment><AUTHOR> Oups! sorry about that. Alongside with the support community, we have a FAQs module. The two makes a smart help center (FAQs and community). You ended up on the main help center landing page where there are two pricing schemes . One if you use only FAQs $5/mo and the other if you use both (FAQs and community) starting at $29/mo.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> Looks really nice!

Searching is a tad slow but I have seen slower. Maybe implementing ElasticSearch might be a nice idea. Would also result in better search results.

</comment><comment><USER29> maliman, I found this: "Can I control who can ask and answer on Haash\'s support community?".

It looks like you're not escaping things correctly.

</comment><comment><USER30> Communities don't seem to work on mobile at all.

<comment><AUTHOR> Sorry about, we're digging into that

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> Not a DigitalOcean user here but this looks like StackExhange clone for small online businesses. Is this correct? Very nice and clean.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, the Q&A is Stackoverflow like but the overall support community is DigitalOcean like [https://www.digitalocean.com/community/questions](https://www.digitalocean.com/community/questions)

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> YES! I was looking for exactly this last year. I'm so glad somebody found the time to make a product out of it.

</comment><comment><USER33> Error on your homepage: "our's" should be "ours". :)

</comment><comment><USER34> Typo in the "A built-in Q&A engine for community support" section..

publicaly -> publicly.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for catching it

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> Digital Ocean tutorials are probably the best and simplest ones to follow. Neat idea.

</comment><comment><USER27> This is actually nicely done.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you!

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> You had me until I had to use pedo twitter or Fakebook. No thanks.

</comment><comment><USER37> I don't like DigitalOcean community.

<comment><USER38> What don't you like about it? (Just curious, I don't have much experience with it myself)

<comment><USER37> I don't know. Too much duplicated content and unanswered threads. I have to sign in to participate.

<comment><AUTHOR> All the communities have to deal with that at some point, but that doesn't prevent good value from happening. One thing we did at Haash is letting members know of existing questions while they're typing a new one.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> For those who are interested in creating a more full featured online community, I run HelloBox

[https://www.hellobox.co](https://www.hellobox.co)

Haash.io looks simple and nice. HelloBox would be for those looking for other bells and whistles.</comment>


Show HN: Reddsera.com – The top Coursera courses recommended on Reddit - <AUTHOR> https://reddsera.com <comment><AUTHOR> Hey HN,

Here's my latest project in the category of "ranking things based on social signals".

It looks at all (url-based) posts and comment mentions of Coursera courses on Reddit, ranks each course based on Reddit score, and shows each course with its top Reddit mentions.

Scoring each course is done with a slightly modified version of a simple popularity / age calculation.

        course_score = sum(mention_scores) / course_age

I tried a number of other more nuanced ranking methods that try to surface "best" above "popular" (averages, confidence intervals, etc) but the simpler method thus far has seemed to produce the most "helpful" list. There are definitely still some bogies in there, but it seems to surface some interesting stuff.

You may be interested to compare this reddit top list to my previous similar project over Hacker News data (which also uses a significantly different scoring method): HN Academy [1].

Would love to get any comments and feedback.

[1]: [https://yahnd.com/academy/](https://yahnd.com/academy/)</comment>


Tin Can: WebRTC that uses Persona to authenticate the callers to each other - <AUTHOR> http://tincan.im/

<comment><USER3> Hi I'm the Mozilla intern that developed this and would really love some feedback! It's super-experimental right now, but feel free to try it out! I plan to release a more formal post later once some more bugs are squashed.

<comment><USER4> First of all, project looks great! Haven't had a chance to try it yet, but I've been impressed with other WebRTC demos, including [http://vmux.co](http://vmux.co) which is similar but uses Twitter to authenticate.

My slightly less positive feedback would be, it seems dodgy that it uses personatest.org instead of persona.org (and there's no website at www.personatest.org verifying its legitimacy). Kind of makes me anxious that I'm being phished. Any reason for this? You surely don't want people getting used to entering their Persona credentials at sites other than persona.org.

<comment><USER5> +1 about personatest.org. I felt also slightly uncomfortable about this and would like to know the reason :)

Otherwise it seems great :)

<comment><USER3> Persona required some changes to the code that have not yet landed in production i.e. on login.persona.org so we are using personatest.org for preliminary testing :)

<comment><USER5> ah ok, thanks for clarifying :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Is there a source package for this? I already run my own Persona identity provider and wouldn't mind rolling this out for my family or for my workplace on servers I own

<comment><USER7> Looks like it's here: [https://github.com/mozilla/tincan](https://github.com/mozilla/tincan)

<comment><USER6> Ah, nice. I always forget Mozilla has an active GH

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Hm Persona (or browserid) is advertised as a decentralized solution to replace passwords with a centralized backup running on mozillas servers. To avoid exactly what happens to me now when I click on the "Sign in with email" button:

\</comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment>----

Error We are very sorry. The server is under extreme load!

Please close this window and try again.

        Action: Checking if Cookies are Enabled
        Now: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 06:03:47 GMT
        Network Info: GET: /wsapi/session_context

        Response Code - <USER2>

        Response Text: server is too busy

        Error Type: server is too busy

\</comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment>----

just two days ago I tried to install everything so I could be my own browserid provider. Turns out that is not really easy (yet). Even if I got quite a bit and was able to run [https://github.com/mozilla/browserid- certifier](https://github.com/mozilla/browserid-certifier) on my server, I never was able to talk to it via curl (the example they have just crashes it) or from a PHP script (I always got a 400 Bad Request). That is mostly because I didn't get how "pubkey - Object compatible with JWT public keys." should look like.

In the end, after a days work I gave up because it was already way after midnight. I hope in the future there will be single file-php-script which I could call from the HTML pages I need to provide which would do all the signing, etc. for one-person browserid providers like I want to become.

<comment><USER9> If you want to run your own IdP, look at this thing:

[https://bitbucket.org/djc/persona-totp](https://bitbucket.org/djc/persona- totp)

Also, the reason the server is busy is because Tin Can currently needs a forked version of Persona, so it's not running on the production infrastructure.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Tried signing in with a gmail account and it wanted me to create a password. The gmail bridge seems to be functioning normally at persona.org, so what's the deal?

<comment><AUTHOR> Tin Can is currently an experimental project. The login is currently using personatest, which is running an older version. I'm not too sure what the status is (I'm a friend of the author) right now with integrating this into persona.

<comment><USER11> (Identity team member here.) Yes, that's right. tincan is against running an ephemeral instance of Persona that doesn't do the account bridging, and doesn't share a database with the real persona.org. We do plan to integrate this with Persona. Also, while I think this is an awesome use case for Persona, and we do intend to land it in Firefox [1], it's worth noting that the proposed webrtc idp proxy architecture [2] is designed to work with any identity provider, not just Persona, and could be incorporated into any browser.

[1] [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=878941](https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=878941) [2] [https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rtcweb-security- arch-...](https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rtcweb-security-arch-06)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> > We are sorry, but currently your browser is not supported.[1]

Really? Mozilla Persona doesn't support Firefox 23.0.1?

[1] [https://webrtc.personatest.org/unsupported_dialog](https://webrtc.personatest.org/unsupported_dialog)

EDIT: BrowserSupport.getNoSupportReason() == LOCALSTORAGE_DISABLED.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> My friend/coworker who made this also made a video explaining how this works in more details: [https://air.mozilla.org/intern-presentation- seys/](https://air.mozilla.org/intern-presentation-seys/)

</comment><comment><USER13> btw, this is why you should apply for an internship on the Identity team next summer :-)

<comment><USER11> This is also why people should hire Ryan Seys when he's done with university. Oops - I didn't just say that! Hopefully he'll be coming back to Mozilla :)

<comment><USER3> I approve of this :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Fails in firefox 23.0.1 for me (I see myself, but not the other person). Fails in chrome 29.0.1547.57 as well with similar results.

<comment><USER3> I am sorry! It is likely due to WebRTC's inability to connect to others when difficult NATs get in the way. TURN servers can mitigate this but Tin Can is not set up to use a TURN server (yet).

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Not working for me.</comment>


Ask HN: What are you sitting on/in? - <AUTHOR>

A strange question, but I am interested in what this audience sits in. I am in the market for a new desk chair and could use some recommendations.
I've thought about using a medicine ball, but I also like having a backrest and posture support.
I know the Aeron comes highly regarded, but from what I hear it has been "unseated". So please, give some insight into why you sit on what you do, and perhaps what would you like to be sitting in.
Thanks! <comment><USER2> I use a standard Office Depot leather desk chair. I think it cost around $180. It looks good, and more importantly it fits me like a glove. I actually went down to Office Depot and sat in all of their chairs that I thought looked nice, and then just picked the one that felt most comfortable to me.

I can sit in this chair 14 hours a day and never even notice it. I like that because I see my chair as being a productivity booster like using Zend Studio for php coding or Outlook for email. If I can sit comfortably all day (and all night, lol) I can really focus on what needs to be done.

If the Aeron Chair fits your body well go for it, but you can save a couple of bucks at a store like Office Max or Office Depot. They have the mesh chairs too, and you might find that one of these fits you much better than the Aeron.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, I was thinking of doing the same thing this weekend– trying out all the chairs I can find, especially anything mesh. Thanks for reminding me! :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I use a kneeling char (like Lisa Simpson has). It takes getting used to, but once your back, thighs, and stomach muscles have adjusted it feels really good.

<comment><AUTHOR> How cool, I've never heard of those. Thanks for the idea, this might allow me to get closer to my desk, but it looks so strange!

<http://www.comfortchannel.com/images/Kneeling_chair_A.jpg>

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Wooden "Captain's Chair" from an "antiques" place but really just junk from a bar. I sanded it to get rid of the nasty laquer and it looks decent now. Unfortunately it is absolutely uncomfortable and completely unsuitable for sitting here for any length of time. So, I am also looking for a new chair...I like the look of the Aeron's but would like to find a lower-priced alternative. Please tell us what you find!

</comment><comment><USER5> I use the hag capisco. Works well for keeping my energy "upwards": strong firm seat that rotates the hip forwards. I find the aeron too saggy. You can get it with or without a backrest. I don't use a backrest cause that forces me not to slouch.

</comment><comment><USER6> Cheap office chair from staples/office centre. Works fine, but I did rip off the arm rests so it can get closer to my work table.

</comment><comment><USER7> Big leather sofa. Reclining. Plenty Cushions.

</comment><comment><USER8> A Steelcase LEAPV2. Great chair.

</comment><comment><USER9> A couch in my living room.

</comment><comment><USER10> Global Airflow Leather Mesh-Back Chair (from Staples ~$200)

</comment><comment><USER11> I have a standing-height desk and no chair.

</comment><comment><USER12> Aeron at the office. My company is so 2000.

</comment><comment><USER13> Bean bag on the floor.

<comment><AUTHOR> Don't those get uncomfortable being in the same position after a while?</comment></comment>


Whom Should You Hire at a Startup? (Attitude over Aptitude) - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2011/03/17/whom-to-hire-at-a-startup-attitude-over-aptitude/

<comment><USER2> One thing I take issue with, as an entrepreneur, is that he explains a 'tell' for a mediocre management team is that he'll _send a talented member to a team and they say to me, "we don't really have a role for that person."_

Well, I'd often get people sent to me, that my VC claimed were amazing and that I should to hire (they usually held senior roles at big/successful companies before). But, without fail, every single one I talked to was a technical idiot. They could talk a good game, and had lots of thoughts about process and structure, but couldn't code their way out of a paper bag.

To be polite, I'd usually tell the VC that there wasn't a good fit, or we didn't have a role for someone so senior, or management focused, or X right now. Would you tell the VC who just wrote you an $N million dollar check that the candidate he thinks is Einstein is an idiot because he claims he's a programmer who 'loves to get his hands dirty' but doesn't understand the difference between a hash table and a linked list? In hindsight, maybe I should have. But I suspect a lot of people won't.

And this was when I was literally the only coder in the company. We didn't need an engineering manager, we needed an engineer. And non-technical VCs couldn't see the difference. (Of course, in an ideal world, you hire someone who is both).

<comment><USER3> You could tell the vc that "he can't code his way out of a paper bag". Much better than talk about hashtables they won't understand themselves. :)

<comment><USER2> Yeah, the issue was that tech VCs (even non-technical ones) pride themselves on being able to find and recognize technical talent. You're really cutting to the core of their perceived value by telling them they're actually terrible at it.

More likely than not, they are going to doubt your ability to recognize talent instead of their own.

<comment><USER4> _You're really cutting to the core of their perceived value by telling them they're actually terrible at it._

Hah. I just met someone who has some money and an outsourced "team of 10, programmers plus support" in an eastern european country, yet he doesn't know enough about technology to describe things in terms other than web pages, and can't differentiate between what's a solved problem and what's still being researched at Google.

He told me that the thing he called me to talk about, he had requested of his team, and they basically told him, "Well, if you can diagram it, we can build it."

I asked him if he had someone who was technical, not an underling, who he had rapport with and could hash these things out like we just had. I suggested that if he didn't that he would benefit greatly if he could find such a person. (And that it wouldn't necessarily be me.)

I hit him with this to see his reaction, which, sadly, was to puff himself up with his sales. Wrong. I guess continuous improvement is good enough for his employees, but not good enough for him.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I've never been able to reconcile "Only hire A players" with the Dunning- Kruger effect.

"The unskilled therefore suffer from illusory superiority, rating their ability as above average, much higher than it actually is, while the highly skilled underrate their own abilities, suffering from illusory inferiority."

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect>

The bit in this article about:

"B players tend to have slightly more self-confidence issues." suggests to me that the many so-called B players are actually A players, and the so-called A players are F players.

<comment><USER6> I think one key assumption that you're missing is that it's possible to have an inferiority complex and a superiority complex at the same time. In fact, Adler believed that inferiority and superiority were two sides of the same coin. That is, people feel inferior and adjust their attitude to the outer world to over-compensate.

Steven Berglas has written a pretty good amount on this issue: <http://hbr.org/2006/09/how-to-keep-a-players-productive/ar/1> ...There used to be a free version of this, but I can't find it anymore. Still, the introductory text is informative, and it's worth the $7 if this is a subject that's important to you.

To summarize though, "A Players" are often driven by an inferiority complex that constantly manifests itself as an external egotism because they're constantly trying to seek approval from others. When you work with them, your first reaction will probably be that they need to be "brought down a notch", but this is a mistake that will only make things worse. The key is helping to build confidence and show that you trust their abilities.

<comment><USER7> I've found a handy Google template for these situations:

        "document title in quotes" filetype:pdf

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> You can only do this once you've got enough people with sufficient of both. Having a company full of people with "Can-Do" attitude who can't do will lead to one of two things:

A: They all get frustrated and leave B: Your technical company becomes a strange monster of convoluted processes achieving the same goal in a much worse way.

For instance, if you do scheduling for classrooms, you'll end up with a group of people who take orders for bookings on line, then manually try to fit them into a diary for an organization, and occasionally make mistakes.

Attitude is a luxury.

</comment><comment><USER9> What exactly is an 'A player'?

The definition I perceive from the investment world is - 'Person X is an A player because both myself and other investors I respect pattern match that Person X is an A player'. The attributes of that pattern match vary, but include things like work that is well known, educational and professional pedigree, strong references from long trusted sources in industry, peer reputation, etc.

I've read the book Topgrading, which gives a definition of 'an A-player is someone in the top 10 percent of talent available at all salary levels for a well defined organizational role'.

I've perceived that many modern engineering cultures will bias towards calling an engineering candidate an A player if that candidate has worked with other engineers that are considered to be A players by the same culture. Of course, nearly all organizations have their own methods for assessing technical ability and previous experience as well.

What is the most useful definition of an A-player in a tech startup?

<comment><USER4> The most verifiable and useful definitions have to do with quantifiable results.

        - Can they get things done?
        - Can they act on their own initiative?
        - Can they think 2 steps or more ahead?
        - Can they code?  Can they code well?
        - Can they think and think well?  Can they think *independently*?

These aren't quantifiable like temperature or width, but they are tangible and to some extent measurable.

The last two are the trickiest. For one thing, it's going to be very difficult for someone who doesn't code to be able to tell reliably if they can code. One can, however, watch someone code and observe their results. Likewise, it's sometimes going to be hard for someone who doesn't yet know how to code well to judge good code.

One can also listen to another's thoughts. However, someone who doesn't yet know how to think independently won't necessarily know what good independent thinking is. They'll only know what someone else tells them is good independent thinking.

<comment><USER9> I agree with this, but something is missing. I think when it comes to recruiting, fundraising or customer development the work must not only get done - but it must be impressive to the target audience.

I propose an adapted definition based on your definition (numbers relate to the order listed above): A players understand a problem in terms of stakeholders[5], and takes initiative[2] to quickly build a solution in code[4] that will impress these stakeholders both in the short-term and over time [1, 3].

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I think the two most important things for me is 'Attitude over Aptitude' and 'Dont oversell'. We ve had 'A-players' come and go just because they either dint have the right attitude or were not sold on the idea (we oversold it at times).

<comment><USER11> I agree to me the main gist of that post was: "So sell, by all means. But don't over sell. Don't promise unrealistic things. Don't over promise.s this quote:"

Sales of everything including hiring talented people is all about the under promising and over delivering. You do that with your customers and with your potential team mates.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> My favourite quote: "I always have a role for talented people." "What role? Who the F knows."

</comment><comment><USER13> I have heard something slightly different with regard to classes of players: "A players hire A players, B players hire C players, and C players hire losers."

Here is a discussion from long ago about the phrase's origins: [http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.50837.1...](http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.50837.14)

</comment><comment><USER14> Great advice from Marc Suster.

I think a lot of people get too fixated on "hire only A players" and forget about "attitude over aptitude" and "culture matters". If the only A player you find for a role is an asshole, keep looking -- or be more flexible in your definition of the role.

<comment><USER4> _If the only A player you find for a role is an asshole, keep looking -- or be more flexible in your definition of the role._

Sometimes, the problem is the definition of "asshole." For some people, this is "anyone who tells me I'm wrong, even if they do it nicely." Such people are not A players.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> You should hire aptitude every time. You can work with and around attitude for more the most part (there are exceptions) but if somebody can't perform on a small team, there's simply nobody to cover for them.

</comment><comment><USER16> A C player with the right attitude can go places. An A player with bad attitude will go nowhere

<comment><USER17> If the ability to "go places" is what's important, than doesn't that make the C player the A player? It's like we're measuring something, then saying we really want to measure this other thing instead.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> From the beginning you should know what skills your team lack. Sometimes you need the A persons. However, if you don't have that amount of money, search for those who can do the job. For the first days that's more valuable.</comment>


[Ask]: Thinking about selling (not-so-small) website. Suggestions on a broker? - <AUTHOR>

Hi. In the last three years I have launched and run a website that now has 200k+ visitors a month, 1k$+/month in Adsense, 2k$ in affiliate sales.
Real facebook fans, relationships with the companies that supply the products we review, good writers....
But it's taking all my spare time away and family life is suffering (especially because I am about to embark in another biz adventure).
I am evaluating selling it, but would like to speak with a professional first to see what it's possibly worth.
Anybody who can recommend a good broker? <comment><USER2> It depends on how consistent that revenue is. Have you been earning $3000/month for a few years? A few months? If a few years, then I would put a 1-2 X annual revenue, which puts it at 30K-60K. If a few months, then probably 1/2 year revenue, which puts it at 10-15K.

Also, consider the affiliate relationship. Is it easily transferable? Do you have any special relationship?

Lastly, do you spend any money on advertising, or paid links?

1-2 X annual revenue sounds pitiful, especially when we hear stories of acquisitions with 100 X multipliers. But keep in mind, you're selling a website not a startup. Buyers will always keep asking you: Why the heck do you want to sell if it's earning you that much money (EVERYONE says they want to move on to something else, so they'll be skeptical of you too)? Thus the low multiplier.

<comment><AUTHOR> I would say 3k/month has been the average for this year. I had peaks of 5k+ but it's a somehow seasonal business.

It really picked up this year, but in order to grow you have to put in time that I don't have. I have always wished this grew enough to replace my daily job, but not quite.

1/2X half revenue sounds like robbery, especially when you 1/2 for taxes too. I am sure it could be way more profitable, but I just don't have the time to invest - unfortunately.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Use flippa.com - I recommend it - Have found attractive buyers on there

</comment><comment><USER4> <http://latonas.com/>

<comment><AUTHOR> thank you. I have looked for similar sized sites to mine, they seem to be listed for 200 days+.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> how about <http://www.flippa.com> ?</comment>


Anatomy of long sales letter - <AUTHOR> http://visualwebsiteoptimizer.com/split-testing-blog/long-sales-letter-copywriting/

<comment><USER3> It's interesting how people divide themselves into two separate camps when it comes to landing page/direct marketing (which are brothers of the same mother). The fact is, both longform and shortform work. But why they work and which context depends on the type of product you are offering and your sales model.

Long form works best for:

* Simple to understand products which have difficult to achieve benefits (weight loss pills, real estate riches courses). The idea is that once you find an interested party, it is just a matter of convincing him that YOUR SOLUTION is THE SOLUTION.

* The purchase process is single stepped with low time and mental effort involved on the part of the purchaser. (e-download, shipped product).

* It is really hard to sell services with the long form, although its been done. I'd still like to see a good example of a successful longform that sells a service, and analyse it to death.

Short form works best for:

* Complex sales where a conversion means pre-qualification, a phone call, question answering, a customized result (think general contractor), identity check or some other gate to completing the sale. The idea is just to give them just enough benefits that they feel both enticed and think it is low risk to give you their contact information. Almost all B2B sales fit in this category.

* Monthly services with a freemium model, and any other low risk opportunity to kick the tires.

* Items with a low purchase point and low effort checkout (App Store game).

That said, there are always exceptions to the rule, and you should test both forms of communication if you are unsure.

<comment><USER4> FANTASTIC comment! :)

Believe it or not, I DON'T only do long-form salesletters so I don't divide myself into a "long-form-only" camp.

Typically what I do is figure out what the client needs... assess the market/product,etc... and do 1 or the other to START.

However, if I'm not absolutely positive that whatever form I'm using will work - I always recommend that the client test a longer copy page versus a shorter copy page.

All in all... it's not "long form vs. short form".

The bottom line is... you put out all your selling points, and defuse all the objectives. At that point it can be either long or short.

And you end it right there without any "extra" words :)

That could be 300 words... or 10,000 words. Like you said - it depends on a TON of variables!

<comment><USER5> When I read those "long form" salesletters, I can tell they are just stories written to divide a fool and his money.

Your comment is written in the same exact way. It isn't formal language (substituting 1 for one, for example), so I assume you write that way to seem "authentic" and "trustworthy", like you aren't trying to take advantage of someone. You throw superfluous, vague praises at every chance, hoping to ingratiate yourself with the "customer". Another annoying thing is how long it takes to express a short, simple idea -- the opposite of good communication. Unfortunately, your kind will continue to exist, as PT Barnum was right about suckers.

Your comment could have been written much more clearly:

I don't only do long-form salesletters so I don't divide myself into a "long- form-only" camp. Typically I assess the market/product, etc and start with one form or the other. However, if I'm not absolutely positive that whatever form I'm using will work - I always recommend that the client test a longer copy page versus a shorter copy page. You need to put out all your selling points, and defuse all the objectives. And you end it right there without any "extra" words. That could be 300 words or 10,000 words. Like you said - it depends on a TON of variables!

If you had written that, I would not have felt my intelligence insulted.

<comment><USER4> Here's an idea.

Work on getting a more positive outlook on life in general. It'll get you very far :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Written by a direct response copywriter, so it's going to be a bit biased.

I've tested short and long form, and while long form tends to do better for information products, if you are actually providing something of value, then usually a short form can work just as well.

Essentially - to sell shit, you need to spend a long time persuading someone to buy it. To sell gold, you just need a buy now button.

<comment><USER4> I don't think it's biased at all.

I do agree that long form tends to do better for information products.

However, it also does better in 90% of cases, as well. As I mentioned in the post... it does NOT do better in EVERY single case.

You're "essentially" comment is absolutely wrong... and TOTALLY biased after you just said my post was biased.

It depends on the market maturity, the branding of the company, and MANY other factors.

All in all - all I'm saying is this.

Long copy works in 80-90% of cases... TYPICALLY. It depends on a lot of factors, and the only way to really know... is to test it with a GOOD copywriter.

After all... long copy that sucks will always do worse than short copy which is brilliant :)

Jeremy

<comment><USER6> That comment is from my own experience. I've sold a bit of both in my day, and while I don't hate long form copy, I hate pages that look like crap, such as some of those examples.

Again, I'm not hating on you, or your piece, but the fact that often times long form copy is associated with horrid design. That's the trend I want to see disappear.

<comment><USER4> No offense taken. I'm actually personally re-doing the order form on the 1 example so it looks more "clean".

The design doesn't matter though.

"Pretty" doesn't sell.

Trust me on that one.

What sells is understanding your customer, having a product which gives them exactly what they need at a fair price, and showing that customer how different that product is from other similar products.

<comment><USER6> I guess it depends on your customer.

<comment><USER4> EXACTLY :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> This is what terrifies me so much about being a [mostly] sole-founder.

If I saw something like this in my mail, I would immediately throw it away and probably have a few thoughts about how out of touch the person who commissioned it was.

But if it really does "convert like crazy", it means that any wisdom I have about marketing (and most of the wisdom given out by fellow geeks, designers, and most marketers) is almost entirely wrong.

<comment><USER8> I think the long form marketing works on the lower half of the intelligence bell curve. This probably excludes much of a programmer's social circle.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yep, if your target customer base includes people who religiously consider such letters as scammy (and I agree most programmers would do so) then it is probably a bad idea to use long sales copy.

<comment><USER4> Perfectly said Paras.

It's all about knowing your market, giving them something they're familiar with, and then BEING INTERESTING :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> We laugh at people "on the lower half of the bell curve" who use the "length equals strength" heuristic to evaluate long-form letters, but the same thing happens in these comments all the time.

</comment><comment><USER10> FWIW, I A/B tested a "long" sales letter with a cleaner, shorter and nicer looking one (imo) for my info product targeted at programmers.

Long: <http://createyourproglang.com/index2.html> Short: <http://createyourproglang.com/>

I've let the experiment run for a few months and the results were never concluding, ~50% each the whole time.

My guess is that most of my buyers are pre-sold by affiliates, or via word of mouth, and don't read anything. Any other interpretation greatly appreciated.

<comment><USER4> 1 thing I noticed is that the longer version is REALLY cramped and a lot harder to read than the short version.

I'd suggest making a lot more white space in the longer version for easier reading.

The shorter version also has a headline, the longer kind of does but it's not noticeable.

Keep running tests - you'll find a winner! :)

</comment></comment><comment> DanI-S Nice article on an unattractive but effective technique. I like how it almost takes the form of a long sales letter itself!

</comment><comment><USER11> My concern with the long sales letter approach is how relevant it is to web apps. Mail order books, courses I can see the benefit, but with a web app, why write lots of spiel about a product someone can start using straight away with a trial account. I am at constant battle with my business partner over this as personally I don't believe it is the right way to create a conversion with web apps (How many successful webapps can you name that take the long sales letter approach?), where as he takes a more traditional info-marketing approach based around selling courses/books/seminars and wants to apply those techniques to our startup.

How does a long sales letter form compare to an approach of "Get the user using the product as quickly as possible", with a few bold benefits outlined, a huge "Try Now" button and not commitment to buy. Of course this is something that I should A/B test myself to really find the answer.

<comment><USER12> Even with a free trial, the purpose of a long sales form is to explain why APPNAME.LY is superior to all the other competing products and get you to try it out.

Look at Basecamp (<http://basecamphq.com/>). They have a tremendously successful webapp, and their landing page is long enough to clearly explain the benefits and uses many of the features commonly found in direct mail/mail order advertising.

<comment><USER13> The thing is they have professional graphics, high profile clients, high quality video testimonials & upfront pricing. The website is actually pretty free of gimmickry. While it is long the actual text is only about 3 paragraphs. Also you're on their homepage, which is more trustworthy than your e-mail inbox.

There's a pretty big difference from Basecamp's website vs someone trying to get you to buy "Forbidden neck pain reliever that the pharmaceutical companies don't want you to know about!!" or a cheap saw made in china that will probably break after a month and cost too much to send back for the Money Back Guarantee*.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> > The best thing a person can do is turn skimmers, into jumpers… and jumpers… > into book worms. That's why it's important to have fun, exciting, engaging > copy.

As a book worm, I can't stand long sales letters. Bold, flashy highlights and random formatting all over the place interrupts the flow of the text and is hard to read. The copy would have to be pretty darn engaging to make me put up with that.

</comment><comment><USER15> It seems the long sales letter is slowly being replaced by video sales letters.

Personally I think video sales letters would be more effective but they also have the inherent problem that people viewing the page at work (or other similar situation) won't be able to see the video (unless they bookmark it and view it later which is unlikely).

I think combining a mixture of the short sales letter, video sales letter and long sales letter would be a good catch all. Show a clear call to action Buy Now button above the fold with a few simple bullet-point benefits and a sales video. Then below that you can continue on with the long sales letter for those who still have pre-sales questions.

<comment><USER4> They're not being "replaced"... but video letters typically do help conversions.

And yes, great ideas about mixing it up.

That's the KEY to all of this. You don't know exactly what will work best - the answer lies in testing it out! :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> Related to this is the "Underachiever Method" and the previously discussed thread on the "400k/yr Parrot eBook guy" <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=516215>

The long form is particular popular with this market targeting method because "ugliness" doesn't matter especially if you position the product as a ultra- niche subject matter authority.

I'm surprised to see that the article doesn't mention that the long form also benefits from SEO juice (more word, better chance of google rewarding keyword context relevance).

</comment><comment><USER17> The long sales letter is the Internet beachhead of the pitch man. Maybe these kinds of sales letters work for some products. But Jeremy knows that he's signaling on Billy Mays (he says so himself), and that people who wouldn't ever buy from an infomercial wouldn't buy from a page like this. I cannot fathom the unhappy circumstances that would have me check "YES! I'd love to work with a copywriter who can make my life EASY and profitable instead of stressful and broke!" box.

<comment><AUTHOR> The copy he writes wouldn't work on you but that's the #1 rule of marketing: don't project yourself on target customer. If you don't _like_ long copy, it doesn't mean your customers won't like it. That's why stress is on A/B testing.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> I've often tried to figure out how to write good descriptions for iPhone apps, and I've never really found any good resources. App descriptions seem to be all over the place, but some of the elements in long sales letters seem to make their way in (the most visible being social proof in the form of listing good app store rankings or review quotes).

Does anyone have insight into this? How well does the long sales letter format translate to the app store?

<comment><USER19> Long-form copy is really slanted towards selling high-cost products, especially intangibles to less-informed markets. You start with a vision, expect skepticism, bring the viewer round to your idea and then hit them with a pricepoint that by this time is hopefully lower than they've been led to expect. They can then buy with confidence that their money is being well spent.

With impulse buys, which is what many apps are, you really don't need the middle level of countering skepticism. You are looking to encapsulate the vision of the app in a short and compelling pitch. Most apps lack the depth to provide the material for long-form copy and you may well lose target market by giving too much and losing attention of the skimmers. Furthermore, consider the negative associations many have with such type of copy, and the correlation of those people with the tech-enabled app-market.

Regardless of your opinion of Moeed's use of ShowHN for a non-product here <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2275703>, his landing page shows about the level of detail I would expect to see in ad-copy for an app. Just try to picture how you would extend that in order to sell the concept further - <USER2> you've run out of ideas, you've hit the level you should be at.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> Designers are not the only ones who 'hate' these kind of letters; most people I know would hit back immediately without checking out the page when encountering 'the deck'. But they do work though; I've tried them and people (whom I don't know?) seem to click & buy.

<comment><USER4> Yep, exactly.

It all depends on what gives you the highest conversions. It's really as simple as that.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> The article seems to generalize quite a bit. The effectiveness of a letter like this I imagine would depend quite a bit on who the target is.

<comment><USER4> Thanks for the comment.

Yea it's hard not to generalize since it's only 1 article, ya know? I tried being as specific as possible without turning it into a 30 page article :)

And yes, you're absolutely right... and hit on something most people don't understand.

It all depends on the target market! ;)</comment></comment>


Ask HN: What's wrong with including code in JSX? - <AUTHOR> I read comment threads where people are really against code being in JSX.
But I do it all the time. I figure that if I can write an extremely terse function inline then the overall complexity of the code is decreased.
I don't see much point in creating functions for one or two liners that will only be called from one place in the code.
So why am I wrong? What's the inherent problem with putting code in JSX? <comment><USER2> There's no inherent problem with putting code in JSX as long as it's not a complex function spanning multiple screens :)</comment>


New York Post Blocks Website Access For iPad; Forces Users To Buy iPad App - <AUTHOR> http://digitizor.com/2011/06/20/nypost-ipad/

<comment><USER2> Looks like the NYPost is just sniffing the user agent. You can circumvent this with something like Mercury browser[1] by changing the user agent.

[1] [http://itunes.apple.com/app/mercury-web-browser-pro- the/id34...](http://itunes.apple.com/app/mercury-web-browser-pro- the/id348701575?mt=8)

</comment><comment><USER3> Wait, wasn't the iPad supposed to provide the best web browsing experience available? How is shoving a custom app for every news site down my throat fulfilling that promise?</comment>


On Applying OOP Concepts to CSS - <AUTHOR> http://jeffcroft.com/blog/2009/may/20/applying-oop-concepts-css/

<comment><USER2> There are two flaws in this article.

 _For simplicity, let's call them .box, .box-rounded, .box-rounded, .box-wide, .box-rounded-wide, and so forth. You can see that several of these would be required to cover all the possible box styles. And what's worse, each of them includes a lot of duplicate code._

There is no reason to repeat the basic box css in this situation. Just do .a, .b, .c { basic box css here }

 _I'd never actually use a class name like .box-rounded-wide, and I hope you wouldn't, either. It just makes for a good example._

If this is a real-world situation it shouldn't be too hard to come up with a real-world example. (If it isn't, there's no reason to talk about it)

</comment><comment><USER3> About Compass not being the solution: "The problem is simply that most designers and CSS authors aren't programmers."

Well, they don't have to anymore. Who needs a "CSS author" or a designer who writes code? Thanks to solutions like Compass, I, as a programmer, gladly do this myself and let the designer, well, design.</comment>


Craigslist Is Ugly, Janky, Old School, and Unbeatable - <AUTHOR> https://backchannel.com/craigslist-is-ugly-janky-old-school-and-unbeatable-85206829cb90 <comment><USER2> This was here yesterday: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13645996](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13645996)

</comment><comment><USER3> There's some real gold in this article!

"Today, Craigslist is the id of the old, weird, non-commercial internet. On it you can seek a sublet, find a job, solicit rough sex or platonic companionship, hitch a ride, and buy or sell everything from antiques to trailers."

How I miss the old, wierd internet.</comment>


Paulo Coelho's Top Rules for Success - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dem4MiKg4sM <comment><AUTHOR> Approaching technological and startup issues with different philosophical approaches of successful people in completely different fields could be useful.</comment>