Levels of code in Forth programming (2002) - <AUTHOR> http://www.ultratechnology.com/levels.htm <comment><USER2> Intriguing article. Just updated some Forth code for interfacing with an ADC on a sensor I'm building. Dealing with SPI/I2C and sensors/adc's in Forth really is fantastic. The results in much more succinct hardware code IMHO than C or even higher level languages. Really Chuck Moore seems spot on when dealing with specific hardware.

One example is a simple Forth word (macro) to convert 3 bytes into one 32 bit number integrates well into code for dealing with an adc chip.

However I wouldn't want to write while applications in Forth as dealing with stack swaps becomes annoying. Still writing your own Forth is pretty fun too. I did mine by basing C compiler XMacros which made porting to an Itsy M4 trivial (about 3-4 of work) [1].

Still there's a few Forth's for Arduino's, Itsy's, ESP's [2] which are really fun as they enable repl style interactive programming with hardware while still being blindingly fast!

1: [https://github.com/elcritch/forthwith](https://github.com/elcritch/forthwith) 2: [https://github.com/zeroflag/punyforth](https://github.com/zeroflag/punyforth)

</comment><comment><USER3> Forth is pretty amazing. It really delivers on that old promise of "a language that will make you a better programmer in other languages".

However, from my experience, since there is basically no syntax, all Forth programs tend to be a DSL for the problem at hand. It's almost like having to learn a new language ok each new project. It's like a complete opposite of what makes Go great.

<comment><USER4> That is exactly what Chuck Moore wanted when inventing Forth.

<comment><USER3> I know. It's a feature, but it makes it harder to share code (and Chuck Moore believes that sharing code is rarely worth it). Maybe he is right. His productivity is unbelievable :)

<comment><USER5> The more time I spend dealing with blowback from excess complexity being imported in the form of 3rd-party libraries that offer complicated solutions to simple problems, the more I think that Chuck Moore was very, _very_ right on that point.

<comment><USER6> I agree with you, but I wonder what his answer to stuff like GUIs would be. There's a tremendous amount of complexity and domain knowledge in stuff like drawing fonts, and in cryptography, and so forth — and very very few of us have the time to become competent in even one of those, let alone all of them. Then consider the amount of work necessary to have a modern browser: text parsing of not one but three languages, language interpretation, more graphics, more cryptography.

It would be _awesome_ to get back to first principles, but modern systems try to do so much that I wonder how practical it would be to reinvent them — and I would how practical it is to say, 'well, don't do that then.'

<comment><USER5> I don't know what Moore would say. Personally, I've retreated to the back end - used to be full stack, but I'm just sick to death of how overcomplicated front-end work has become.

I'm inclined to say that, e.g., the modern browser is a cautionary tale that complements the Chuck Moore approach to things: By forever piling thing on top of thing in an evolutionary way, you end up with a system that ultimately feels more and more cobbled together, and less and less like it ever had any sort of an intelligent designer. Perhaps the lesson is that it can be worthwhile to occasionally stop, take a real look at what things you really do need, aggressively discard the ones you don't, and properly re-engineer and re-build the system.

Obviously there are issues of interoperating with the rest of the world to consider there, and Moore has made a career of scrupulously avoiding such encumbrances. But a nerd can dream.

<comment><USER7> Also consider that all we know is a world that has become more global, open, and relatively peaceful post 1970s. If collaboration were to slow or decline, open-source would be harmed. And/or if Google and Facebook lose its dynamism from politics, regulation, and maturity, corporate sponsored open-source could be shaken. Google could become like AT&T and Facebook like Ericsson or something in some way.

Once unstoppable sectors, like aerospace (to mix comparisons) began to reverse and decline in the early 70s. No one really saw it coming. I can't think if one publicly known or credible person called it in 1969 shortly after the moon landing, at least on record. Oversupply of engineers in the US and the West became a thing. And engineering still suffers here because of aerospace's decline. Forth began to lose steam around then, right? Forth, hardware and Cold War (barriers) politics are inextricably linked, perhaps. And then GNU/Linux and BSD saw its high-collaboration paradigm birthed around that time. Nixon/Kissenger talks with closed China began around then too, and now relations are breaking down with a more open China today.

Look how Lua scripting came about not terribly so long ago. Some parallels. Brazilian trade barriers. Now half believe Huawei is evil. Cross-hardware story may be cracking. Many believe Google is evil. Open software may be cracking. And there are rifts between US, EU, and China on how to regulate the internet. A new Cold War may be brewing. It's a nerds nightmare.

If anyone can tie in distributed ledger and specialized AI coder productivity tools, or something to counter this argument or round it out, that would be awesome.

EDIT: I was mistaken. Forth caught on with personal computer hobbyists in the 1980s, per Wikipedia. However, as a career or industry,slow downs with NASA and Cold War spending seemed to take some wind out of Forth's sails. I've noted that lot of that type of work was what paid people to write Forth. And the open-source paradigm with C/C++ and GNU Linux was even more limiting, I believe.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Before I learned Forth, I was very comfortable in Common Lisp. Now I miss the convenience when writing Forth and raw simplicity when writing Lisp.

I realize the problem isn't Forth, some people (such as the writer for example) are capable of pulling amazing feats for such a primitive tool.

But as a result, the programming languages [0] I've designed since have all been part Forth and part Common Lisp.

[0] [https://github.com/codr7/cidk](https://github.com/codr7/cidk)

</comment><comment><USER9> > Portability is not possible. Real applications are closely coupled to > hardware. Change the platform and all the code changes

Some lessons simply did not age well.... Even in world of today's microcontrollers, which often have kilobytes of RAM and very different CPU styles, people still write mostly hardware abstracted code.

<comment><USER10> It's the usually game of MPUs becoming cheaper or more stuffed for the same price because the demand allows to manufacture bigger batches, and the demand is to allow more portability by the means of more stuffed MPUs that allow more abstractions...

But it's a miniature of the same tragedy as Node.js applications that consume ten times the resources needed just because it allows people to do more with more... In a logarithmic way.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> This is a really interesting read, and as someone who's almost exclusively programmed in high level languages, this approach seems alien to me.

A couple of questions:

1\. Is it possible to write complex, modern applications (things like browsers, photo editors, etc. — things that would take millions of lines of Java or JS) using this style of programming?

2\. What is "sourceless programming"? Where is a good place to learn more about it?

<comment><USER12> 1\. "This style" is kind of hard to pin down. If you mean Chuck Moore's dramatic minimalism, then, yes, but it won't resemble what most people in computing expect from a browser or photo editor. If you mean expressing the abstractions you want directly in the primitives you have without bothering about layers or even accepting the idea of higher vs lower levels, then, yes, certainly. It requires a lot of unlearning, though.

2\. Sourceless programming was something Chuck Moore tried for a while where he designed a machine that was the virtual machine he wanted to program, implemented it in hardware, and then edited byte code directly for it. Later he stepped back and went to colorForth, which has the source/binary separation we are all accustomed to.

<comment><USER11> Thanks for the reply!

> but it won't resemble what most people in computing expect from a browser or > photo editor.

In the sense that an end user would interact with some low level API primitives, rather than a full GUI? I'd love more examples or metaphors, or maybe a link where I could learn more.

<comment><USER13> Chuck Moore's software is somewhat famous for reducing the complexity of both the software itself as well as the requirements. In developing a web browser, he would probably eliminate all of JavaScript, the user interface, and most of CSS, and leave it to run only on a chip he designed for the purpose. His ideology is super cool, but isn't what is expected of software like this.

For instance, OKAD (chip design and simulation CAD package) is 500 lines of colorForth. Although it includes all sorts of fancy tools, he also applied his ruthless minimalism to the requirements.

<comment><USER14> I would welcome all of these except maybe a separate chip. E.g. having 3 separate languages built in a browser does look like a overcomplication.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> >I was also researching AI in Forth, implementing ideas from LISP examples and doing expert systems and neural nets and mixing them and building robots. In the software I added a layer for an inference engine for English language descriptions of rule sets and a layer for the rules. I wrote a learning email report and conversation engine AI program and had it running for a few months. My boss could not distinguish it from me. That was my idea of AI, smart enough to do my job for me and get paid at my salary while I took a vacation.

Is the author exaggerating here, or did they actually succeed at writing something that could pass whatever Turing test level his boss could offer?

If it's the latter, what then-current knowledge would they likely have sourced?

<comment><USER16> He's throwing shade on his former boss

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> Eons ago as an embedded programmer I came to respect Forth. I encountered numerous situations where using Forth led to a much smaller footprint (size in particular) -- Why? For exactly the reasons that Chuck Moore espouses here; you are writing a purpose-built VM from the hardware up.

Even then I don't agree that portability/abstraction isn't important - it's got the potential to be an extremely reductionist position. Instead I'd argue it's incredibly expensive and should be treated as such.

<comment><USER18> "Instead I'd argue it's incredibly expensive and should be treated as such."

Using a cross-platform framework isn't incredibly expensive in time or performance cost. It's done by one-person projects and large businesses alike. There's issues but that's way overstating it.

Then, there were 4GL's like Lansa and Windev that made it easier to do than creating non-portable, native applications. Those weren't used for performance-sensitive code, though. Mostly business apps.

<comment><USER17> I wasn't being specific enough - I meant expensive in the most general sense. e.g. An abstraction is a cost not only in terms of (potential) performance, but developer headspace, etc, etc.

The right number of abstractions is very powerful. Too many any you'll sink under the weight of them.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> This is really captivating. I think I'm inspired to finally dust off my of TI- Forth for the 99/4a

</comment><comment><USER20> Chuck Moore has always struck me as some kind of alien, not unlike the way stories about Von Neumann do - that this is a person who is, in his specialized field, capable of thinking in ways that I just can't, and achieving things that seem practically magical with it.

<comment><USER21> You might be right... but I have the impression that if you talked to him, he'd tell you that you'd get similar milage by following his philosophy about program design. It's just that most people just can't stomach it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> Does anybody know what Chuck Moore does right now? I was following a while his posts on patent lawsuite but then he went quite.

</comment><comment><USER23> To sum up Chuck Moore's quotations: you write code that takes all of the machine, and you got to write all of the code. If you have this, you can squash out all abstraction and build the ideal solution directly.

This may hold true for small-scale hardware like controllers. They have a well-defined set of tasks, small enough to fit in your head.

This means that you have a certain trouble sharing the code with your colleagues, making the bus factor of your project closer to 1, and lowering the usefulness of code reviews.

This means that you have trouble sharing code with yourself in your next project.

You become tightly coupled do the machine. This is, on one hand, liberating, you can do anything easily. But this is also limiting, because you spend your mental resources on optimizing for this particular machine.

I personally think that deep optimization is something that the machine should do, they are better than humans at this most of the time. And humans should do want machines currently can't.

<comment><USER10> > This may hold true for small-scale hardware like controllers. They have a > well-defined set of tasks, small enough to fit in your head.

People usually insist that software should be modular, so that you don't have to have millions of lines of code in your head when making a local change. That's what drove the procedural evolution and later the OOP evolution.

So if you're a good boy/girl/etc. you write your million-LOCs PC application as modules that are manageable for (ideally) a single person. Then you need an extra programmer to glue the modules together.

> This means that you have a certain trouble sharing the code with your > colleagues, making the bus factor of your project closer to 1, and lowering > the usefulness of code reviews.

Where does Forth prohibit peer reviews and pair programming? If you have a bus factor of 1, it is because you don't want to pay the price of increasing it. It has nothing to do with Forth; plenty of projects in super-high hyper- readable projects have a bus factor of 1.

> This means that you have trouble sharing code with yourself in your next > project.

Not really. It's easier to copy/paste/hack Forth code. The code is more compact for various reasons: point-free style makes it less verbose, you tend to factor more intensively and you code exactly what you need.

> You become tightly coupled do the machine. This is, on one hand, liberating, > you can do anything easily. But this is also limiting, because you spend > your mental resources on optimizing for this particular machine.

No, that's the other way. When you code e.g. for a little-endian, two's complement CPU then you don't have to worry about big-endian and sign magnitude. You are actually _also_ optimizing programmer's cycles too.

Being tightly coupled to the machine is what embedded programming really is about. Embedded programming is often about writing esoteric values at occult addresses in order to bang out bits on an SPI bus. Running a Python program on Debian on a rPI is not really embedded programming.

<comment><USER24> It kinda sounds to me like Forth wants to be used in the context of embedded programming, then.

<comment><USER10> Not only. Checkout Forth Inc. last year's projects [1]. In one of them, Forth is used everywhere from micro-controllers to the monitoring PCs.

[1] [https://wiki.forth-ev.de/doku.php/events:ef2018:forth-in- tha...](https://wiki.forth-ev.de/doku.php/events:ef2018:forth-in-that)</comment></comment></comment></comment>


CafePress Raises Another $8.3 Million From Sequoia - <AUTHOR> http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/11/24/cafepress-raises-another-83-million-from-sequoia/ <comment><USER2> Story updated: not true, according to CafePress.</comment>


Can You Be Addicted to Video Games? ( - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/22/magazine/can-you-really-be-addicted-to-video-games.html <comment><USER2> i would like to back to shopping again fast shopping cory cardigan comfertable boots As desscribed in the product description the perduct sutable for me Like what i expected</comment>


Robinhood API Client – Automated, commission-free stock trading using Python - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/benkroop/robinhood <comment><AUTHOR> Disclaimer: This is an unofficial client package. I'm not affiliated with the folks at Robinhood Markets Inc.

<comment><USER2> Nice! Added to -> [https://github.com/realpython/list-of-python-api- wrappers#ro...](https://github.com/realpython/list-of-python-api- wrappers#robinhood---free-stock-trading)

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> It's Working!</comment>


Netherlands played crucial role in infecting Iran with the Stuxnet virus - <AUTHOR> https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/aivd-speelde-cruciale-rol-bij-sabotage-kernprogramma-iran~ba24df9f/ <comment><AUTHOR> Did you by accident remove the entire article from the front page instead of just this sub-discussion? It's a very interesting and relevant article. I'd prefer this sub-discussion to be nuked instead of the entire submission

<comment><USER2> That's because of a separate issue, which is that the article is not in English. That's not out of disrespect for the Dutch or the Dutch language (quite the opposite) but it is the convention of the site.

<comment><USER3> If I remember correctly, in the past I saw German articles being popular and discussed on HN (and even as a Dutchman I found it weird, so nothing against keeping a common language, I'm just curious). Was the policy on this changed at some point?

<comment><USER2> No, it's always been this way. But we miss some cases, because we don't come close to seeing everything on HN.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Back when liberal democracies were still united against tyrannical theocratic authoritarian regimes. Seems like it's been forever ago.

<comment><USER5> All it took was one idiot. It's interesting how positive effect on society rarely emanates from single individuals but negative effect examples we have aplenty.

There is something fundamental at work here: destruction and creation are not symmetrical in the amount of effort and knowledge they require.

<comment><USER6> No one truly does it alone

<comment><USER5> Absolutely a valid observation, every idiot needs a large multitude of enablers. But those never seem to be in short supply. Come to think of it, neither are the idiots.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: What do you like the least from running your business? - <AUTHOR>

For me its always have to do payroll. <comment><USER2> can't you outsource payroll?

for me, networking. i'm a somewhat introverted, behind-the-scenes type, which means i have to force myself to get my face out there, meet people, shake hands, make new friends, push my business, etc.. i'd much rather be solving problems.</comment>


A Visual Guide to Creating an Embeddable Framework for Mac OSX - <AUTHOR> http://intridea.com/2010/12/28/a-visual-guide-to-creating-an-embeddable-framework-for-mac-osx

<comment><USER2> On a semi-unrelated topic... A while ago (December 2008) I was playing with writing games. When I wanted to release the games I found that many computers did not have SDL installed so I've had to compile my own binary universal frameworks. (Prowling through the net the only copies I could find at the time were all for the PPC architecture.)

Anyway, if you require those frameworks for your own use you can find them at <https://github.com/meric/macosx_sdl_universal>

Maybe it'll save you a couple of hours. :)

<comment><USER3> I might be able to use some advice on this topic... mind sending me an email? I have a few questions about this.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> _Now that we've got a handle on what frameworks are let's set about building one._

Sorry, but there was no explanation of a framework, just several bullet points about features and capabilities. Framework is a term that's long been in use in programming. It could mean a variety of things. Exactly what is an OS X framework, and how does it accomplish having those features?

<comment><USER5> Whereas a dynamic library is a single file, a Mac OSX framework is a directory with a specific hierarchy that gives you flexibility in versioning and sharing of common resources.

If I write an RSS parser framework and embed it in an app, when that app is installed it will be put into /Library/Frameworks. If I then open source that framework and somebody else embeds it in their app, it is guaranteed that it will be loaded exactly once. In this respect it is like a dynamic library.

Where it differs however is that multiple versions of that library can live inside the same framework. So if I make substantial improvements to the library, up the version number and embed it, it will continue to live inside that same framework directory and will share the same common resources. OSX recognizes that while these libraries are not the same, they are related.

If you're running on OSX, check out /Library/Frameworks to see what frameworks external applications have installed and how they've organized their resources. Or look in /System/Library/Frameworks for what comes installed by default.</comment></comment>


What are some of the worst academic papers ever published? - <AUTHOR> https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-of-the-worst-academic-papers-ever-published/answer/Tijmen-Herdink?share=1 <comment><USER2> There is also this paper (which I may have gotten from a Hacker News post in the past):

Tsai, A Mathematical Model for the Determination of Total Area Under Glucose Tolerance and Other Metabolic Curves, Diabetes Care 1994 Feb; 17(2): 152-154. [1]

Related blog post: "Medical researcher discovers integration, gets 75 citations" [2]

[1] [http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/17/2/152.abstract](http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/17/2/152.abstract)

[2] [https://fliptomato.wordpress.com/2007/03/19/medical- research...](https://fliptomato.wordpress.com/2007/03/19/medical-researcher- discovers-integration-gets-75-citations/)

<comment><USER3> Here is the actual paper: [https://math.berkeley.edu/~ehallman/math1B/TaisMethod.pdf](https://math.berkeley.edu/~ehallman/math1B/TaisMethod.pdf)

It even thanks a Professor of Electrical Engineering for his expert review.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Transgressing the Boundaries: Towards a Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity - Alan Sokal 1994, published in Social Text #46/47, pp. 217-252 (spring/summer 1996).

[https://physics.nyu.edu/sokal/transgress_v2/transgress_v2_si...](https://physics.nyu.edu/sokal/transgress_v2/transgress_v2_singlefile.html)

<comment><USER5> Background for this artcile - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair)

<comment><USER6> > ...rise of deconstructionist thought, which eventually led to a > deconstructionist critique of science.[citation needed]

Just perfect.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> The economist Gary Becker's paper "Crime and punishment: an economic approach" [0] is up there for me.

He argued that prior to committing a crime, the perpetrator weighs the potential benefits of the crime against the probability of being caught and the ensuing severity of punishment. If the benefits exceed the costs, the criminal commits the crime. It is then noted that enforcement costs money. Becker concludes that the maximally efficient way to deter crime is to do relatively little enforcement, but to hand out severe penalties to criminals who are caught.

Becker was a respected economist at the time of publishing this paper. One can always defend a publication like this with the claim that 'it's just a model' but there is some evidence that the theory was used to justify crime policy from the 70's onward.

[0] [https://www.nber.org/chapters/c3625.pdf](https://www.nber.org/chapters/c3625.pdf)

<comment><USER8> The ethics arguments against the conclusions drawn by that paper are stronger than the plausibility ones.

But if you think Becker's theoretical model itself is dubious, it's got nothing on Kopczuk and Slemrod's "Dying to Save Estate Taxes" paper... [http://www.columbia.edu/~wk2110/bin/dying- final.pdf](http://www.columbia.edu/~wk2110/bin/dying-final.pdf)

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Here's another popular (and thorough!) answer about a paper that claims gender bias causes more deaths from female-named hurricanes than male ones: [https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-of-the-worst-academic- pa...](https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-of-the-worst-academic-papers-ever- published/answer/Henry-Brice/)

</comment><comment><USER10> And here my answer was going to be that discredited one which triggered the anti-vaxxer movement.

<comment><USER11> That's the top answer ([https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-of-the-worst- academic-pa...](https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-of-the-worst-academic- papers-ever-published/answer/Jennifer-Edeburn)) - and deservedly so!

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> Paper Generator was also a nice experiment, in this context:

[https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/archive/scigen/](https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/archive/scigen/)

</comment><comment><USER13> Maybe link to all the answers instead of just this one ? IMO the other answers are much better. It's crazy what journals will publish without even looking at it.

<comment><USER14> How do you see all the answers? When I click on the question, the page displays the text "20 Answers" and only one answer...

<comment><USER13> Click on the question. I had to use an incognito tab to bypass the login screen.

<comment><USER14> That's what I did. Still, only one answer (the one about the false research on autism and vaccines)

<comment><USER15> Click this link in incognito mode: [https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-of- the-worst-academic-pa...](https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-of-the-worst- academic-papers-ever-published)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Related: The Ig Nobel Prize [https://www.improbable.com/ig/winners/](https://www.improbable.com/ig/winners/)</comment>


How to get kids interested in design? - <AUTHOR> There already are efforts to get kid involved in programming, but what about design? It seems a little harder for kids to even understand what design is and that you can make a career out it, compared to programming. But for a lot of kids I think design is a better match for them than programming. Anyone have any success getting kids interested and started in design? Any resources that help? <comment><USER2> Start early: make art supplies and art toys easily available.

Talk about it - talk about how it's easy to use this app because the designers made it easy to use, or it's hard to use this app because the designers made it hard to use. When reading books talk about the images and the fonts. (For example, _Sam and Dave Dig A Hole_ has lovely drawings, large print, and a clean simple font with high contrast. _Farther_ has a weird font in a low contrast.)

Involve them in decisions about decoration and room layout. Introduce simple design and art concepts early, and help them spot patterns. "Colour wheels" are simple enough, so you could buy a bunch of paint and do some potato printing with complementary colours, and clashing colours.

[https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sam-Dave-Dig-Hole- Barnett/dp/140636...](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sam-Dave-Dig-Hole- Barnett/dp/1406360988/)

[https://www.amazon.co.uk/FArTHER-Grahame-Baker- Smith-x/dp/18...](https://www.amazon.co.uk/FArTHER-Grahame-Baker- Smith-x/dp/1848771339/)

PS: If you're involved in children's books, and you want to use a weird font: just fucking don't.

</comment><comment><USER3> Hey, that's a really interesting discussion. The easiest way to get kids involved and interested in design is probably through play. When the whole learning experience is made easy and playful enough, one can start teaching fast and build more complicated assignments on top of that knowledge later on. My experience is based on building a 3D modeling platform to get children interested in design ([https://3dc.io](https://3dc.io)). What we found is that once you get the kids modeling and collaborating with each other in a fun and engaging way, it's possible to successfully teach them problem solving in wider contexts (even design thinking) already in the primary school. They key seems to be making the learning experience gradual, fun and accessible.

</comment><comment><USER4> It depends a lot on the age of the kids of course, but as @jaakk said, play. It's hard to get kids to be interested in something if you're just sitting them down and trying to explain it to them. Get hands on. For the purpose of this answer I'm going to assume you mean "design" in the general sense of the word, not just web design.

Show them how design is responsible for every day things that they're already using. Take them to an industrial design museum, perhaps a conference that focuses on 3D printing so they can see with their own eyes how everyday things are created from scratch. Next time you drive past a stop sign, ask them why they think it's red - that alone opens up doors to discussions about everything from psychology to evolution.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes I do mean design in general. The book titled "The Design of Everyday Things" is pretty good IMO, but probably would only interest an older child. Maybe some of the work is to just point out that creating things people use requires making decisions and that whole process is "design."

<comment><USER5> I've found that a goal combined with play seems to be effective. People like learning if it is a way to build something they want to build. So maybe try finding something that the child wants to build and then get to design through that?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Model interest in design for them through your behavior, and provide opportunity in the form of tools, supplies, books, and exciting examples. Then encourage them in the right way when they do things. The child may or may not develop a lasting interest in design, everyone is different.</comment>


Is Juul the Startup World's Greatest Long Con? - <AUTHOR> https://www.theringer.com/tech/2019/1/10/18167364/juul-big-tobacco-tech-startup-long-cons <comment><USER2> How is MoviePass a con? Who is getting rich off it? Who is getting swindled?</comment>


In space, no one can hear you kernel panic - <AUTHOR> https://increment.com/software-architecture/in-space-no-one-can-hear-you-kernel-panic/ <comment><USER2> This post was your 22nd submission in the space of about an hour, in which time there were only 37 submissions from everyone else put together. One point in the new queue features six of your submissions in a consecutive row.

Per the Guidelines, [https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html):

 _Please don 't submit so many links at once that the new page is dominated by your submissions._</comment>


Bret Taylor: Experimenting with Google App Engine - <AUTHOR> http://bret.appspot.com/entry/experimenting-google-app-engine

<comment><USER2> _"... Any chance of showing the template or portions of the templates? ..."_

I asked Bret on the blog if there was any chance of showing some more, especially the templates & replied he'll release the code ~ _"... Sure. I will post the entire code base to Google Code in the next few weeks when I get a few moments ..."_

</comment><comment><USER3> Where's the 15-minute video?!</comment>


Microsoft's Complete Diskinect - <AUTHOR> http://hellmode.com/2010/06/15/microsofts-complete-diskinect/

<comment><USER2> "and a dance demo featuring a No Doubt song ("Hella Good") that was last popular nearly ten years ago"

Ouch!</comment>


Arrow Hero now available for mobiles - <AUTHOR> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.estotyllc.arrowhero

<comment><AUTHOR> Arrow hero mobile game now is ready for launch on Google play, thanks Jeremy for great app idea.

P.S. my best score 3041 :)</comment>


Federal officers use video game console to catch child pornographers - <AUTHOR> http://www.axcessnews.com/index.php/articles/show/id/19037?31

<comment><USER2> This part made me chuckle a bit:

 _What other systems don't have, however, is adaptability. Condon said that, unlike its fellow next-generation gaming machines, the PS3 lets users install Linux, a free, open-source operating system.

[...]

Unfortunately for ICE, the new slim-PS3 won't suffice.

"The newer PS3s have been restricted, locked down, so you can't put Linux on them," Condon said._

Oh dear, the slashdot thread practically writes itself...

</comment><comment><USER3> What a total nonsense article. No mention of rainbow tables which could probably crack the passwords of 90% of the dreaded child pornographers in seconds with any machine. Indirection if you ask me.

Remember Jaycee Lee Dugard? From [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_of_Jaycee_Lee_Dugard...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_of_Jaycee_Lee_Dugard#Missed_opportunities_to_rescue_Dugard)

"On April 22, 1992, less than a year after her kidnapping, a male caller reported to the Contra Costa County Sheriff's Department that he saw a girl who closely resembled Dugard staring intently at a missing child flyer of herself in a gas station in Oakley, California, less than two miles from the Garridos' home. The caller, who left no name, reported seeing her leave in a large yellow van, which matches the description of an old yellow Dodge van that was recovered from the Garrido property in 2009. The license plate was not reported and the sighting was investigated only cursorily.[32]"

"In 2006 one of Garrido's neighbors called 9-1-1 to inform them there were tents in the backyard with children living there and that Garrido was "psychotic" with sexual addictions. A deputy sheriff spoke with Garrido at the front of the house for about thirty minutes and left after telling him there would be a code violation if people were living outside on the property. After Dugard was found in August 2009 the local police issued an apology."

If the "police" __really __cared about this type of thing, they wouldn't have the person with seniority in their division fuddling around with PS3's. This type of story is just to make the public feel good about what is being done. If their goal was to actually catch people, they'd approach legitimate "hackers" and make them an offer they can't refuse, but instead, they must give these types of jobs to people with union seniority, who are of course the ones that know almost nothing about it.

<comment><USER4> Rainbow tables are useless against any marginally modern crypto scheme (e.g., any that has a salt). I imagine a child pornographer (if they were using crypto at all) would likely use some simple off-the shelf software like Truecrypt - which is essentially uncrackable.

And what's the point of that really long anecdote? I don't see how that relates to this article ...

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I'd really like to know if they have had any success with this. The article says they can try 4 million passwords per second, though it's not clear if that's per machine or for all 20 machines that they currently have. They also state that a six-digit password has 256^6 possible combinations, or 282 trillion. 282 trillion combinations at 4 million / second is still more than 2 years, but I'm guessing that they're smart about how they apply the algorithm since most of the characters in a password probably fall within a set of 100 more common characters. Throw 20 machines at it and get smarter about your guesses and I'm sure that gets down to maybe a few days, but what about 10 or 12 digit passwords? Just wondering if this has been at all effective.

<comment><USER6> My guess is that they're actually using dictionary (or pre-generated rainbow tables with near words) attacks.

Pedophiles don't tend to be the sharpest tools in the shed so I'm guessing dictionary words do the trick 90% of the time.

When in doubt make your password something like j3vm#sdq-oj3ew7!d. I call it an "8 by 8" and have committed myself to memorizing a bunch of them for everyday use.

<comment><USER2> _Pedophiles don't tend to be the sharpest tools in the shed so I'm guessing dictionary words do the trick 90% of the time._

You know, users in _general_ don't tend to do very well at picking passwords. The great success story of educating users on password strength is that, after years of telling people to use both numbers and letters, the most popular password went from being "password" to "password1".

Not to mention that it's probably unwise to assume that criminals of any sort "don't tend to be the sharpest tools in the shed". Maybe it's true, maybe not, but underestimating an adversary's competence is _asking_ for trouble.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> What's the equivalent performance you could get from a modern $300 nVidia graphics card? Serious question, as I have no way of guessing, though I have a hard time imagining the modern nVidia won't spank the PS3 every which way. (Or possibly two $150 cards.)

I suspecte somebody's playing up the PS3 angle for publicity, the only question is whether it's the FBI or Sony.

<comment><USER8> Without knowing what they consider a password, it is hard to tell.

Even though the Cell processors and GPUs are similar, they both do have different strengths still. There exist password systems that would get miserable performance on either or both.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> What's funny is that game consoles are usually subsidized by the makers, hoping to make their profit on the games. Not positive about PS3, but that's probably why they're getting such a cheap computer for this purpose.

</comment><comment><USER10> I felt that this was a well-written article but the ending feels like a pathetic stab at.... humor?

 _Despite having so many PS3s at their disposal, both Skinner and Davenport said agents have resisted the temptation to play video games on the consoles._</comment>


Office 365 is DOWN: Microsoft programmes crash for users across the UK - the-dude https://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/office-365-down-microsoft-programmes-13900201 <comment> the-dude Apperently not only UK, it is across EU.</comment>


Show HN: Self-hosted person-to-person WebRTC service - <AUTHOR> I've lurked until now, and I'm attention-averse, but here is my toy. I'm certain that I'll regret this, and I'm not sure how much time I'll have to monitor it or follow up, but on the off chance that someone here is stuck at home and wants to play, here it is.
https://jerome.puptel.net/abracadabraalakazam
The service is hosted on a CPU-optimized DO droplet in San Francisco. I've set the maximum number of calls to 10, but I have no idea what the real limit will be. I'll try to keep an eye on it. I'll leave it up until someone finds a critical bug or I find that no one is using it.
I post this in response to having read apenwarr's grumpy opinions about remote work at Tailscale, linked here a few days ago (https://apenwarr.ca/log/20200309). One option that wasn't listed is self-hosting Jitsi (https://meet.jit.si/), something I feel is a much better self-hosting option than what I'm showing you here now. <comment><AUTHOR> No one has used the service for a few hours, and it has disappeared from the first page of new show HN, so I've taken the server down.

A few people connected and watched the video, one person actually completed a call, and I found a bug, so thanks!</comment>


The Fall of Ethereum - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/futuresin/the-fall-of-ethereum-15c4b64467d8 <comment><USER2> What the fuck did I just read?

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> In a world of crypto winter, even Ethereum's success is not certain.

</comment><comment><USER3> I wish they would just come out with Caspar, then we'd at least see if PoS actually works.</comment>


Electronics Companies Illegally Void Warranties After Independent Repair - <AUTHOR> https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/9k7mby/45-out-of-50-electronics-companies-illegally-void-warranties-after-independent-repair-sting-operation-finds <comment><AUTHOR> The full headline is:

45 Out of 50 Electronics Companies Illegally Void Warranties After Independent Repair, Sting Operation Finds</comment>


Launch at DEMO? - <AUTHOR>

Someone I know was invited to launch his startup at DEMOspring 2010.  For those who aren't aware of the event, it is pitched as "the premier launch pad for new information technology products." (See http://www.demo.com).
There is a $18,500 fee to participate.
Do Hacker News members think it makes sense to participate?  Is it worth it?  Have you had any experiences with DEMO?
His startup is very early stage (basically two guys working part-time, no financial investment of any kind).
Interested to hear your thoughts. <comment><USER2> Demo is definitely a large event, but there is a lot of push-back against pay to play events like this, and particularly with that kind of dollar figure.

I personally think it often depends on how this 'friend' plans to benefit from going to demo.

I'd recommend looking through some videos from previous demos, and look at the companies who have presented there. Does it fit with what the new company is doing? Are they looking for partners who attend? Are they looking for funding? if so, is paying $18k+ (don't forget incidentals) the best way to go about doing this?

I'd would think that it would be VERY difficult for a small start-up to justify that kind of cost, but in some instances, it may be worth it. For most companies, I don't think it is.</comment>


Too Good to Be True? - <AUTHOR> http://theheroesdose.com/~theherq5/chaotic-good/ <comment><AUTHOR> The FTC's doors are closed because of the government shutdown. When I was contacted by a scammer, I naturally took matters into my own hands. Make sure you apply for your $50,000,000 today!</comment>


Ask HN: Does any part of your LOB web app still require IE11? - <AUTHOR> For example, you might have clients with tons of legacy HTML/XML templates which are only rendered correctly in IE11 (with all its quirks)?
And so these clients insist they will continue using IE11 for your web app, because they rightfully want their documents to look 100% the same as they did 10yrs ago.
If this sounds familiar, how do you plan to eventually retire IE11 support? <comment><AUTHOR> asking for a friend of course :)</comment>


How Sega Planned To Crush Nintendo, 24 Years Ago - <AUTHOR> http://kotaku.com/how-sega-planned-to-crush-nintendo-24-years-ago-1575042229

<comment><USER2> I very strongly disliked Console Wars, the book this is an excerpt from.

The chosen style of the book is overly detailed recreations of events with cheesy dialogue. It's a very grating style, and one that makes everything feel incredibly fake.

Also, I'm sure that there are a huge number of awesome stories that could be told of that industry and era. The author of the book found very few of them. Instead the rather thick book is filled with retellings of cheap marketing stunts, ad design, junkets, uninteresting human interest stories of people who aren't important enough to the story to really merit fleshing out, etc. And of course all told with way too many words. There's actual material for maybe 150 pages, not 550 pages.

<comment><USER3> Having just finished reading it a few days ago, I have to disagree with you.

I really enjoyed it, and as a programmer and gamer, found it really interesting to read about what goes on outside of just writing a great game and shipping it.

I didn't find the dialogue cheesy and I was quite immersed in the story. I felt sad once the book was over, and started playing through Sonic the hedgehog.

I do wish it had more about what was going on at Nintendo. It was much more about Sega, or really just Tom Kalinske.

<comment><USER4> If you want to know more about what was going on at Nintendo at the time (and earlier), check out Game Over: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_Over_(book)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_Over_\(book\))

It was originally written in 1993, but received revisions up until 1999. I read the original version so I have no idea how the revised content stacks up.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I have not read the book but I would think they credit EA for a major assist for the Genesis. Madden, NHL, Basketball all launched on Genesis which brought it older fans.

</comment><comment><USER6> I wrote about the history of Sega awhile back: [http://adterrasperaspera.com/blog/2006/01/03/the-downfall- of...](http://adterrasperaspera.com/blog/2006/01/03/the-downfall-of-sega- part-1/)

<comment><USER7> If you do follow up with a new article you should cover why the Dreamcast failed in more detail. As I recall it failed for a variety of reasons but the one that stands out was it's high price but lack of DVD playback while the PS2 and XBOX were priced competitively but had that.

I had a dreamcast when they launched. Sega Bass Fishing, House of the Dead 2, Sonic, and Crazy Taxi were awesome.

<comment><USER8> Dreamcast was largely a commercial success. It largely failed due to the massive debt incurred during the Saturn/32x era. Sega just couldn't back it like they wanted to.</comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: Find the Monitor Arm you need easily - <AUTHOR> https://monitorarms.co/?hn=true&version2=true&updates=true <comment><USER2> It would be cool if I could filter by monitor weight, as I have a heavy 38" monstrosoty</comment>


Scientists find 'secret molecule' that allows bacteria to exhale electricity - <AUTHOR> https://www.livescience.com/electron-breathing-geobacter-microbes.html <comment><USER2> What exactly qualifies a protein as being conductive? There's not enough detail in the article to understand that.

<comment><AUTHOR> Perhaps the answer is in the original paper; if so, I'm not smart enough to find it.

>Electric field stimulates production of highly conductive microbial OmcZ nanowires

[https://www.nature.com/articles/s41589-020-0623-9.epdf](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41589-020-0623-9.epdf)</comment></comment>


Purple map, 2012 edition - <AUTHOR> http://kryogenix.org/days/2012/11/07/purple-map-2012-edition

<comment><USER2> It would be great to get even more granular and get to the county level to show how even the "divided" counties are purple as well. My guess is that you might get some counties that are 100% Red or 100% Blue.

These colors are great, but almost ultraviolet to my eyes. I can only look at the map for 5 seconds. Also, the color doesn't really tell me how far from 50/50 the states are.

<comment><USER3> For anyone who wants to do this, the data's available: [http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/nov/07/us-2012-...](http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/nov/07/us-2012-election- county-results-download)

<comment><USER4> I stumbled upon the same dataset, so did the following map:

<http://i.imgur.com/8YjOg.png>

Here is some notes:

<https://gist.github.com/4034954>

Edit:

If anything, I'd say that the counties themselves are more divided than I thought. The one which surprises me the most is the deep south of texas, which is quite blue.

Also, I do not claim that I did this flawlessly, there is a chance I stuffed up and it is not showing the right data, but I don't really have the time to play with it for too long :)

<comment><USER5> South Texas results aren't too surprising. There's a _huge_ Hispanic population down there.

<comment><USER4> Ah, of course. Thanks for pointing that out.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I wonder how many people didn't bother to show up at the election rooms because their vote wouldn't mean anything. Being pro-Romney in a strong "blue" state or pro-Obama in the "red" one.

<comment><USER7> Well yeah, but being pro-Romney in a strong red state, or pro-Obama in a strong blue state, your vote still doesn't mean anything. The question is whether the "don't bother voting he's going to win anyway" effect is stronger than the "don't bother voting he's going to lose anyway" one.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Nice, but I wonder how objective `halfway between red and blue' is when people evaluate color. Halfway might appear to be 2/3 to some people.

<comment><USER9> All it needs is a key showing what shade is 50/50. Unfortunately one isn't provided...

<comment><USER10> Good call. Map updated to include a key!

<comment><USER11> The key isn't that helpful. Suggestion: a color slider showing continuity between two (asymptotic) extremes.

Better yet would be quantizing it into 10 or 20% buckets so people could better guage a given state more easily.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> This map is kind of silly. How much of a victory does a candidate need to get red or blue to appear? Utah was 72% for one candidate. If all the map shows us is that nobody got 100%, or that 72% red and 28% blue is a shade of purple, then, well, duh.

<comment><USER13> This map makes the point that the United States is not the divided nation that pundits claim. Most states were fairly close to a 50/50 split vote wise (aka purple). Even in Utah the vote was only 3:1 Romney:Obama; they are not as different from blue states as people think.

<comment><USER14> The fact that most states are close to 50-50 means the nation as a whole is _more_ divided, not less: there are lots of people in _every_ state on both sides.

<comment><USER15> If people in the poorer states like Alabama voted the same way as people in richer states like Maryland, that means they have more in common. If people from a small state with low income inequality like New Hampshire are evenly split, that means whatever divides the candidates is not economic, geographic, or cultural reasons.

<comment><USER16> That's not how data works.

All this purple map shows is that the division between republican and democratic voters is prevalent in the majority of the states.

It says nothing about the demographics of the voters.

<comment><USER15> We already know the demographics of people in the various states though. If people above a certain "richness" level liked one candidate over the other, then the majority in Maryland would have voted one way and Alabama the other. (Or both the same way, if the necessary level were very high or very low.) The fact that about 50% of Alabama voted each way _and_ about 50% of Maryland voted each way means income level does not strongly change the way people voted.

This isn't about Democrats vs Republicans, because about 40% of Americans don't identify with either party. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_party_strength_in_U.S...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_party_strength_in_U.S._states#Current_party_strength) Party affiliation isn't nearly enough to explain how close this election was.

<comment><USER17> _This isn't about Democrats vs Republicans, because about 40% of Americans don't identify with either party._

Exactly. I've heard some studies that point to a majority of young voters (18-24?) self describe themselves as fiscally conservative and socially liberal. IMHO, neither of the 2 parties fit that bill right now so many people vote along with their particular social issue. A gay friend mentioned to me how hard voting was because she is fiscally conservative, but no way could she vote GOP (not that they are the picture of fiscal responsibility either at this point).

Another friend of mine described his feeling about the election as, "I hated to see Obama win, but I'm equally afraid of the crazy republican right wing. I want a party that is fiscally conservative that also believes in evolution."

It seems that with the vote always being near 50/50 that one of the parties could figure out that sweet spot and satisfy more than 50% of the populace. That would mean taking chances and really challenging the status quo, so it will likely never happen. After last night though, the GOP is at a crossroads and now is probably the best time if there ever was one to really make some changes. Very unlikely though.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> I always preferred the cartogram as shown at <http://www- personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2012/>

<comment><AUTHOR> This seems to be showing completely different information so I'm not sure it's much of a comparison

<comment><USER18> I ment showing this data on that map. The vast land mass and small population in the west makes visuals on a normal map of the US meaningless.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> 50 Shades of Purple. Thank you for freedom of choice.

<comment><USER10> ha! I wish I'd thought of that tagline for the map. I might steal that at some future date, if you don't mind :)

<comment><USER20> The map is really interesting, but its hard to read with those two colours. I'd like to see it with just white-blue or white-red.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Our voting demographics have historically been geographic by coincidence of education, industry, or creed.

In 2012, with almost no information barriers, the demographics are really more based on economics and education, with race, sex, and sexual preference also taking a strong role.

The reality is that there are plenty of idiots to go around. Anyone who pays attention to their own local politics knows that.

</comment><comment><USER22> Really interesting in the concept, specific color choices aside, it's a great point that general portrayal really bifurcates states along partisan boundaries when they're really pretty close proportionally... Honestly the whole bipartisan system is a joke, the illusion of choice.

</comment><comment><USER16> Now they should use saturation to indicate which percentage of the voting population actually turned out to the polls.

</comment><comment><USER23> This probably REALLY cool. #colorblind

</comment><comment><USER24> What a horrific colour scheme. You want colours that contrast well; a red- green gradient would be much better. A "neutral" state would then be an easy to discern shade of brown.

<comment><USER25> Translation, for people with a common form of color blindness:

"a brown-brown gradient would be much better. A "neutral" state would then be an easy to discern shade of brown."

<comment><USER24> Hah, good point. Should've known better. Still, it's not hard to find something better than shades of fuchsia. Blue to orange with white in the middle perhaps?</comment></comment></comment>


Heroku: Announcing the Add-on Provider Program - <AUTHOR> http://blog.heroku.com/archives/2010/9/14/announcing_addon_provider_program/

<comment><USER2> Free idea here. Create an add-on that monitors your load and tells you when you've probably got too many workers and dynos.

Credit goes to the guy who got stuck with the $1300 Heroku bill... he inspired this idea.

link: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1688904>

<comment><USER3> Even easier would be an add-on that allows you to bump up your resources for a pre-determined time period, after which they return to baseline values.

That way there would be no need for further user intervention at all.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Is anyone else stunned at how thorough and complete the documentation and support materials are for this launch?

I was blown away. Great job guys!

<comment><USER5> Definitely. I was just playing with kensa, which is a tool that they wrote for automatically testing your add-on. It checks to make sure everything is working properly. This includes your settings manifest, provisioning services, deprovisioning services, making sure the add-on is secure, etc.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> I'm waiting for the recursive add-on: Someone creates an add-on, hosts it on Heroku and then enables the add-on in the add-on app.

<comment><USER7> I'm already building an addon as a Heroku app. Of course, I work for Heroku, so it probably doesn't count.

<comment><USER6> You're missing an important detail: Start using the add-on in the Heroku app. Since the add-on provides feature x, you can simply depend on it and remove feature x from the Heroku app :-)

<comment><USER7> Way ahead of you. The tricky part is being able to bootstrap if the service crashes. It's pretty neat being able to basically provide artificial respiration for your web app in an emergency.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I didn't see (from a quick reading of the docs) how developers get paid: via Heroku, or a direct charge to end users?

<comment><USER9> It's via Heroku. They handle customer management and billing, and send revenue to you (after taking a cut).

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> I'm kind of disappointed at the "neutral marketplace" philosophy. I'd prefer a "curated marketplace" where the Herokuans could be opinionated about what works best (in general, and with Heroku). Metrics are great but I actually value the opinion of the people who built and run Heroku more. (Of course their opinion could be a metric, but it didn't sound like it in the announcement.)

</comment><comment><USER11> Notifo definitely needs to get on this..</comment>


Find usernames across over 75 social networks - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/sdushantha/sherlock <comment><USER2> Does this tool have an advantage over using a search engine?

</comment><comment><USER3> Glad I use a different user everywhere!</comment>


Jupyter Notebook Analysis of Salary Data Spreadsheet - <AUTHOR> https://cdn.rawgit.com/jrenner/hacker-news-salaries-data/master/explore_salaries.html <comment><USER3> It's interesting - the company I work for (non-US, consulting) did analysis of gender pay gaps internally and noted that on average, females get 70% of male pay. However, _within the same role_ , the difference was just 3%. Their focus is now on flexible working and figuring out why women are excluded/not interested in particular roles.

<comment><USER4> That seems to be the current state of knowledge.

> Although additional research in this area is clearly needed, this study > leads to the unambiguous conclusion that the differences in the compensation > of men and women are the result of a multitude of factors and that the raw > wage gap should not be used as the basis to justify corrective action. > Indeed, there may be nothing to correct. The differences in raw wages may be > almost entirely the result of the individual choices being made by both male > and female workers.[21]

– U.S. Department of Labor as cited by Wikipedia [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap)

<comment><USER5> And yet people will still throw out the ~76 cents on the dollar figure that has been disproven again and again. Even 3% may be statistically significant so I don't see why some people feel the need to be blatantly dishonest regarding the problem.

<comment><USER6> The issue isn't just about "choice" etc: it's also about how jobs that women predominantly do are lower in prestige and pay than jobs that men predominantly do.

The change in programming from being a low prestige, low salary job done by women to being a high prestige, high salary job done by men is sometimes cited an example of that. I don't know if there are flaws in that example, but I think the overall idea makes sense. I read an interesting article about this, but I don't recall the link. Sorry.

<comment><USER5> Perhaps its important to determine if there are flaws in the example before using it as an example.

<comment><USER6> Alternatively, perhaps it's worthwhile to suggest an idea that might be relevant to a topic, even if one doesn't currently have the time or inclination to explore it in depth. I mean, you're interested in the truth right? Not just the rhetoric necessary to argue a position you already hold.

But sure, go for it. Why would you want someone to suggest an alternative way to explore or think about a problem when you can respond with snark instead?

You might find life more fulfilling if you don't treat new information as inherently antagonistic.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I'm trying to collect a similar dataset for freelancer hourly rates on Reddit:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/freelance/comments/4bsk14/freelance...](https://www.reddit.com/r/freelance/comments/4bsk14/freelance_hourly_rates_a_crowdsourced_spreadsheet/)

Tried it on Hacker News as well, but it didn't get any attention:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11337833](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11337833)

</comment><comment><USER8> As best I can tell, that last graph would've been clearer as a bar graph and not a scatter plot (or at least better labels). The x axis merely indicates the location. So, "mean annual salaries by location (in kUSD)" might be a good title for the last one.

<comment><USER9> Also are all the salaries in USD? I know Europe might pay less in tech - <USER2> the bottom three paying locations being Sweden, Berlin and London seems strange to me. Perhaps those locations salaries are not being converted to USD...

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> I appreciate this if only as a great example of using jupyter notebook and pandas. Thanks!

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> github repo:

[https://github.com/jrenner/hacker-news-salaries- data](https://github.com/jrenner/hacker-news-salaries-data)

</comment><comment><USER11> What strikes me that salary~experience (both company and overall) correlation is basically nonexistent in this particular dataset, at least looking visually.

<comment><USER12> I had the same thought, but then you have to remember years of experience does not equal mastery.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> I may have missed it but it looks like the plot from cell 'In [64]' hasn't converted from Euros and GBP to Dollars.

</comment><comment><USER14> I've got 99 problems, but a boss ain't one!

</comment><comment><USER15> Awesome! Think you should convert the currencies at current spot rates instead of just removing the currency sign though :)

</comment><comment><USER16> It looks like all the analysis is just on base salary. It would be much more interesting if it included bonus and stock.

</comment><comment><USER17> Interesting there seems to be a shift in the 0-2 year job length position. I wonder if this is because the common trend is to jump ship at 2 yrs, so folks are going out job hunting, and getting a competitive raise at their current position with the job offer in hand?

</comment><comment><USER18> Most interesting to me was that the gender gap was so much more pronounced in SV than outside

non-SV male median: 97000

non-SV female median: 90000 (92% of male)

SV male median: 137120

SV female median: 99187 (72% of male!)

Unless there's some external factor here, things look pretty damning in SV...

<comment><USER19> Without looking at the distribution of job_title between male/female in SV and non-SV, these numbers are meaningless.

<comment><USER20> Not to mention, the sample sizes are quite skewed -- the quantiles _might_ line up better with more data.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Log-log scales would really help. Otherwise - points in the low range are too dense to be useful (big differences in density make be hard to spot, or even - invisible).</comment>


Isn't it time to change the startupschool.org page? - <AUTHOR>

Possibly with the link to the video. <comment><AUTHOR> Link: <http://www.justin.tv/startupschool></comment>


Answer YC: 42. - <AUTHOR>

Don't panic. ;) <comment><USER2> You're a day early. Tomorrow's Thursday.

<comment><AUTHOR> Oh, I always forget I am on Turkish time, now.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: Quit my job. Company coming after me - <AUTHOR> I moved my family from Denver to the Bay Area to work for a medical device startup. The pay was very good. After about 4 months, I decided to part ways with them for personal reasons.
The timing was unfortunate as I quit the day after I received a performance award. I did finish up a major project before I quit though.
The day I announced my intention to quit, my manager asked me to reconsider my decision. After I stuck to my decision, he had the VP of HR talk to me. This was when things became a little unsettling. HR manager advised that I pack my belongings and leave the building before either VP A or VP B found out about my decision to leave. I was also told that I would not find any positions in the Medical Device Industry in the Bay Area. Towards the end of our conversation, HR lady mentioned that her mental state was transitioning towards anger. Due to these comments, I thought it best to leave the premises as soon as possible. I cleaned out my desk (on a friday), stayed for a few more hours, transitioned everything that I could think of to other co-workers, turned over my keys and left.
I later found out from another pretty reliable source that the company has decided to make life as difficult for me as possible. Other employees have been questioned of their interactions with me after I quit.
1. I need to discuss the issue with a good attorney if possible. I am really new to this area and don't have any contacts. References are appreciated.
2. I was asked to return a 100% of my sign-on bonus. I am willing to return it. However, about 30-40% of that was withheld for tax purposes. Do I give them the entire amount and claim the taxed amount from IRS?
3. I know that most of the issues here would probably be best discussed with an attorney. However, I would appreciate HN advise as well. <comment><USER2> IANAL, and this is my 2 cents. Get a good labor lawyer.

1\. Did your sign-on bonus state that you had to stay a certain time to keep it. If not, don't give it back. They are hostile (and have already taken hostile actions) and haven't earned consideration. Any payment from you should come with them signing an onerous agreement.

2\. If you have to give it back by contractual obligation, then pay the whole amount. You get the tax that was withheld by the IRS when you file. If cash is an issue, tell them you'll send the rest when it's refunded.

3\. If they do anything to hurt you, you will be able to sue them for damages. Don't retaliate by naming/shaming/defaming them. Collect as much evidence as possible about whatever they decide to do and just have a lawyer write a letter. Say little to nothing publicly.

4\. They are within their rights not to give you a good recommendation. You should not refer anyone to them.

5\. I strongly doubt anyone will care what they have to say about you.

6\. CA has employee-friendly non-compete. You can't use their secret information, but you can work for a competitor.

7\. Quitting after receiving a performance bonus is so commonplace that it's boring. The entire NYC financial and legal industry basically plans their annual personnel strategy around it.

<comment><USER3> The boilerplate standard signing bonus is recoupable if the employee leaves within a year. You're right that he should make sure that's the case for his own bonus, but it's more likely than not that he has to return it.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes. That was part of the contract. I do have to return it if I quit within a year

<comment><USER4> Was it prorated? All of the signing bonuses I have received have been.

<comment><AUTHOR> Unfortunately no. Lesson Learned there.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Get a labour lawyer, and get them on retainer. You may not need it, but that's fine. Lawyers hold funds in trust - not that anything can happen, but having them on retainer means that should you be in some sort of sticky situation, you can continue using said lawyer, as they're already on retainer.

Then - stop.

Don't do _anything_ , _anything_ , _anything_ , without a discussion with said lawyer. Follow everything that lawyer says to a T - full stop. The only opinion that matters is the labour lawyer, who will undoubtedly base things on your contract, and any e-mails you exchanged prior to signing said contract.

Phone calls / voice conversations / things that aren't written down are too much of a he said/she said. Don't offer any money, don't so much as have a conversation with the company. For the time being, don't see your old co- workers, don't exchange email, just don't do anything.

tl;dr - Lawyer up

<comment><USER6> You might give Scott a call -- [http://www.gatteylaw.com/](http://www.gatteylaw.com/)

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Contd.. 4\. Lesson learned: The conversation with HR didn't turn out the way I expected. Although I was asked by the HR manager to turn in my resignation, I was unsettled enough by the order to leave that I forgot to give my resignation in writing. I was actually willing to do stay around a even a month for them until they hired a replacement and I had mentioned that to my manager. Not in writing though. Just a note for others. This gave them enough ammo to call a few recruiters and tell them that I quit without even a 2 week notice (Recruiters being who they are immediately called me and told me about other companies that are hiring). Also, my leaving did make life easier for the other developers for a little while.

5\. Stay tuned! Not sure what will come out of this, but don't want to go bankrupt or spend a considerable amount of time and resources in court for sure. I'd consider it a win if I can just write a check for the sign-on bonus minus the tax deduction and both parties forget about it. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case.

<comment><USER7> _This gave them enough ammo to call a few recruiters and tell them that I quit without even a 2 week notice_

Unless you have an employment contract that said otherwise your employment is "at-will", meaning you can be fired at any time and, in return, you can walk away at any time.

Two weeks is a common courtesy but is not required of anyone. Given the hostile environment, it probably would not have been a productive time anyway. And, obviously, the recruiters could care less.

<comment><AUTHOR> True. Employment was "at will".

<comment><USER6> If they did call people and tell them you quit without notice, they are likely opening themselves up to damages. If your story is accurate, then they lied if they said you quit without notice, as they asked you to resign that day. If they are telling lies about you ; and you are damaged, they are likely liable for that. Talk to an employment attorney.

<comment><USER8> Right. This would certainly seem to be extremely close to the textbook definition of tortious interference (though it may require you to already in negotiations), whereby a occurs when a person intentionally damages the plaintiff's contractual or other business relationships. This tort is broadly divided into two categories, one specific to contractual relationships (irrespective of whether they involve business), and the other specific to business relationships or activities (irrespective of whether they involve a contract).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> From what you are saying, it sounds like this company would be best suited to get their HR shit straight, or they will find themselves in a world of hurt down the road. HR Lady's mention that "her mental state was transitioning towards anger" can be described as offensive conduct, and the EEOC would be all over that. Also, The Department of Labor doesn't take too kindly to stuff like this. Do find an Employment/Labor Law Attorney and tell them exactly what you wrote above.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks! That particular comment seemed really out of line. I just took a deep breath and left the room.

<comment><USER9> You did the right thing. Sadly, the quality of HR professionals has been on the decline for some time now, because kids are coming out of college with HR degrees that are completely detached from reality (wait, this sounds like a lot of college degrees :) ). They don't realize how much litigation is involved and just how much an HR mistake can harm a business.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> These things happen and it sounds like the company is being jerks about it. Your offer letter will cover the conditions under which you have to return the signing bonus. It may or may not be pro-rated but usually if you quit you do have to give it back. And yes, you have to return the whole amount, when you file your tax return you will get back the withheld taxes in your refund as the bonus will no longer be part of your compensation on your W2.

The whole black listing / smearing thing is mostly just talk. Given that they are that smarmy, others will know that about them as well. Having the 'award' will certainly put the question of who has the sour grapes out there. And hey it has given you some manager types you don't want to work for again. It is always an option of the company to walk you out the door once you decide to move on, that is more common when the company is worried about how your leaving will impact others, but I know of at least one company where it is standard policy.

The only risk of talking to a lawyer here is that they will get all excited and try to get you to take some action. Generally you have to ask, what is it you want? To complain? put a comment up on Glassdoor and move on. A lot cheaper than paying an attorney.

</comment><comment><USER11> 1\. I usually advise people to talk to a lawyer, but in your situation, nothing has happened yet. The company hasn't actually done anything that should concern you.

2\. Follow the letter of whatever deal you had for your sign-on bonus. If your contract says you have to return it, do so. If it says it is pro-rated, do so. Don't invent new rules. If the contract doesn't say anything about returning it, don't.

3\. Just make sure that your conduct is above reproach. Don't give them any excuse for going after you for any reason. Act professional, leave, you don't owe them anything.

<comment><USER8> r.e. point 1 - apparently the company has (proactively?) contacted recruiters to advise them that this person is unreliable, i.e. quit without notice (regardless of the fact that even if so, they were perfectly within their rights to do so).

<comment><USER12> > r.e. point 1 - apparently the company has (proactively?) contacted > recruiters to advise them that this person is unreliable, i.e. quit without > notice (regardless of the fact that even if so, they were perfectly within > their rights to do so).

Which, given that the OP had provided notice to your manager, and left immediately only because directed to by the company's HR manager, would seem to be damaging information concerning the OP's usual employment that was false and that the company knew, or reasonably should have known, was false -- i.e., quite likely actionable slander.

So, good reason to talk to a lawyer, especially if the OP believes the company's activities are likely to escalate if not constrained.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> 1) You need to talk to a lawyer (don't have any Bay Area references, sorry)

2) Don't pay them until you talk to a lawyer.

3) At-will is at-will and businesses are the ones who pushed for this concept, so don't lose any sleep over exercising your right to quit at-will (though I do think it is good professional behavior to give 2 weeks notice, especially if it will help wrap up any loose ends). The timing will _always_ be unfortunate if the company sees you as a high-value contributing employee.

</comment><comment><USER14> Do you mind sharing a little about the nature of things that drove you to quit? What got the HR lady and VP-A and VP-B so angry? Who was at fault? Just trying to understand the situation a bit.

</comment><comment><USER15> Get off the internet and talk to an attorney.

</comment><comment><USER16> Here's something very specific for the lawyer you'll be retaining to do: contact the company's lawyer and point out how stupid they're being, so the latter will tell them how very foolish they're being, but that's OK, he'll just make more money if they don't stop and get sued....

</comment><comment><USER17> Oh no, VP A, B, and HR lady are mad. How do they expect to "make life difficult" for you? Realistically, there is not much they can do. I wouldn't worry about it unless an actual action is taken.

As for the bonus? Unless you are contractually bound to return it, tell them the money's spent and to write it off.

</comment><comment><USER6> You said you were asked to return your sign on bonus. I'd like you to give me $15,000 please.

</comment><comment><USER18> I have to ask... Why are they so angry about you leaving?

</comment><comment><USER19> Startups aren't meant to let one spend time with his family.

It's also quite common that first 4-12 months in a new company (startup or not) are much more demanding than ongoing work (due to ramp up).

<comment><AUTHOR> I totally agree. My realization was that I'd rather spend the non-family time on my own ideas. I've edited my post so the focus stays on the questions I've asked.

<comment><USER19> RE your questions there's one thing I know: non-compete are not enforceable in California. Relax and join a different medical startup if you want.

(I am not a lawyer, so get one to confirm, or get listen to another 10 random folks :))

Unsure about remaining questions: 1) can you do anything to prevent your defamation among recruiters and/or make them pay for it, 2) sign-in bonus tax issues.

But my point was that as far as ethical and personal issues go, I am not on your side. If I was your employer I'd be angry too :)

RE spending time on your own ideas, I think the problem is not strictly time. It's energy. I spend only 40-45 hours a week at work but it's intensive focused time that leaves leave me with barely 15 hours/week of high energy focused time on _all_ of the rest: my hobbies and meaningful time with family combined. In startups there's expectation that you give all of it, not just 40-45 hours.

<comment><USER13> "non-compete are not enforceable in California. Relax and join a different medical startup if you want."

The way I read the OP (though this may be incorrect) wasn't so much that they were threatening to enforce a non-compete, but rather that they intended to blackball him within the local industry.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes the worry is not the non-compete. The med device industry is pretty small within the US. It was the threat that bothered me more.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: How do/could you use Mechanical Turk - <AUTHOR>

I've seen a lot of "instant" services that appear to have a group of workers behind the scene, and they appear to be a sort of "siloed" Mechanical Turk.<p>So what DO you use Mechanical Turk for? Or what could you use it to accomplish in a cost effective way? <comment><USER2> We are making software for heavy equipment brokers to manage their inventory and deals. A lot of times these guys have incomplete information for their contacts and so have a backend service that can take partially filled in customer data and complete the missing fields. The contacts in this industry are not on LinkedIn or other social media typically so services like FullContact's API aren't very useful thus the need for human powered research.

<comment><AUTHOR> That's a great example. How is the cost structured for something like that?

<comment><USER3> Between 0.01 and 0.05 for item

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I used it to transcribe two years worth of handwritten journals I kept from 2012-2014. Got it done for less than 4c per page, including annotating pages that had a doodle, noting the date of a given piece of writing, etc.

I'm using it to basically data-mine myself.

</comment><comment><USER3> We use the Amazon MTurk for a bunch of things: Categorize websites (ecommerce yes or not, blog, etc.); extract contact information from websites; extract attributes from product titles, etc.

</comment><comment><USER3> It is important to provide clear instructions to the Turk.

</comment><comment><USER5> Academics use it for surveys quite a bit.</comment>


Ask HN: Best PSD slicing services? - <AUTHOR>

There's a gazillion out there and I'm just wondering if anyone can recommend a consistently good PSD slicing service.
I noticed that some of these services start out pretty good and then grow to the point where they're forced to outsource more allowing for the quality of the work to suffer.
Any recommendations or shops the you swear by? <comment><USER2> I've had good luck with <http://psd2html.com>, but I've not used them much.

<comment><USER3> let me understand it right , its real people doing the slicing ? or its like adobe image ready online version ?

<comment><USER4> Real people</comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: Office Noise Generator (when you miss your co-workers' noise) - <AUTHOR> https://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/openOfficeNoiseGenerator.php <comment><USER2> Office noise is the absolute worst part of working in an office for me.

</comment><comment><USER3> I'd hate it but I'm sure this will help some people.

</comment><comment><USER4> Love this! Thanks</comment>


Twitter finds Ruby faster with gcc optimizing for size than speed - jim-greer http://blog.evanweaver.com/articles/2009/09/24/ree/

<comment><AUTHOR> Linux (the kernel) has been aware of this result for a long time. Here's a thread from 2001, where Linus says

 _"I would, for example, suspect that a "correct" optimization strategy for 99% of all real-world cases (not benchmarks) is: if it doesn't have floating point, optimize for the smallest size possible. Never do loop unrolling or anything fancy like that. "_

<http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2001-07/msg01543.html>

and a similar thread [http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0302.0/1068.h...](http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0302.0/1068.html)

And the 2.6.15 (2005) changelog which exposes a configuration option to compile the kernel optimized for size <http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/12/18/139>

<comment><USER2> Unrolling loops made sense when memory access was cheap. That is, until about mid 80s. Since the advent of caches, making your code (and as much data as possible) fit inside them was the way to go.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> _> This is an unusual phenomenon_

I don't think that's unusual at all. I've found it to often be the case. Cache misses will _kill_ performance.

<comment><USER4> Jep, the most impressive thing I have seen about this was when a coworker was able to squeeze the processing of (small) images into the CPU-cache only (and improving the steps used to get the image there). The speedup was a factor around 15.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Apple's default optimization level is also for size, not speed, and that ends up being faster there as well. They ran an entire session a couple of years ago at WWDC, explaining how and why -Os ends up being a superior solution-- basically, you blow out the cache less, which ends up mattering far more than forcing the processor to do as much as possible on every cycle.

</comment><comment><USER6> This is an interesting source of "death-of-a-thousand-cuts" performance problems in C++ codebases, as well. Code you never even execute can slow you down; stack-unwinding code for unhandled exceptions takes up precious icache bytes between the bodies of useful functions. Good luck finding this with a profiler; every function executes epsilon slower, since a cache miss is that much more likely to fetch its body.

<comment><USER7> The stack unwinder should be a separate function altogether, not interspersed with your code.

Activation record cleanup, on the other hand, will be inside your routines, and will be executed both in cases of normal and abnormal exit. But this isn't the responsibility of exceptions; you have to do this cleanup even on normal exit.

Code that runs only in exceptional cases is comparatively rare. But with exceptions, you can move that code somewhere else entirely; and with PC-based exception handling, the space cost is only borne when an exception is thrown, when the PC lookup tables need to be paged in. In this scenario, the tradeoff between exceptions and error codes becomes relevant: exceptions let your code get smaller at the cost of a hit when an exception is actually thrown, while error codes bloat your code.

Of course, all of the above is not specific to C++. C++ has other deficiencies which can lead to suboptimal pathologies in practice.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Can anyone mention (or point to) tips on what kind of code makes good use of cache? I'm looking for interesting details. "Use less memory" is a bit general.

<comment><USER9> This is far and away the most detailed explanation I've seen: <http://people.redhat.com/drepper/cpumemory.pdf>

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> On the graph, how can there be more replies per second (the y axis) than requests (the x axis)? Look at the graph at x=80 (actually, it's slightly under, maybe 79). There are up to 85 replies.

</comment><comment><USER11> Hm... I wonder when REE 1.87 will be made publicly available? My team is looking to move to 1.87, and I'd rather like to hold off for REE 1.87 if possible.

<comment><USER12> REE 1.8.7 should be released very soon. I tried a private pre-release and it worked like a charm.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Surely icc would help more?

<comment><USER14> Why would icc help more?

<comment><USER15> Not only is gcc -Os faster for every benchmark I've ever tried, ICC is also some 10% faster again at running ruby interpreter than GCC.

However, none of these speedups is as large as upgrading to Ruby 1.9</comment></comment></comment>