iPhone 7 - <AUTHOR> http://www.apple.com/iPhone7 <comment><USER4> I still can't get over the headphone jack. Apple does have a good record of abandoning technologies at the right time (floppies, CDs, Flash, etc) but the biggest difference is that those technologies were all on the downward slope of their popularity when Apple made the move and all had solid replacements available at the time. The headphone jack is just as popular today as it has ever been and it is still more convenient and dependable than wireless headphones for most people in most situations. Maybe that changes soon or maybe AirPods solve this for iOS users (they by design can't be a universal solution) but I can't help but feel that Apple is jumping the gun on dropping the jack. Although as an iPhone user, I hope I'm wrong.

Side note, I think it is hilarious that Apple can't get the AirPods to ship at the same time as the iPhone. Anyone who buys the new phone on release is going to be stuck with the crappy lightning headphones for at least a month and a half.

<comment><USER5> I can't get over the headphone jack either.

Another dongle to loose. Tons of headphones obsoleted. Can't charge while listening. Laggy audio. more batteries in the world. They're ok with a bulge for the camera but not headphones? I work in a lab and a phone with headphones is standard equipment on the commute and work (for at least part of the day).

I would seriously move off iOS if I was making music with it. If only iOS devices were made by other manufacturers... (I know I know....)

on the plus side minimum memory had been bumped.

<comment><USER6> > They're ok with a bulge for the camera but not headphones?

This confuses me too. The camera wart is ridiculous, and I bet if they made the device just that slight bit thicker they'd have room to retain the 3.5mm jack.

The other possibility is that the headphone jack makes water resistance that much more difficult. Maybe they think it's worth it?

<comment><USER7> In addition to the Galaxy being water resistant with a standard audio jack, the watch has a speaker that expels water automatically from the air cavity. That's a brilliant piece of engineering, so one can't help but wonder if the headphone jack preventing water resistance is truly an engineering problem or simply a (ridiculous) business decision.

Personally, I'm going to hold on to the 6s for as long as it's usable and then consider my options.

The funny thing is, they made a huge deal about catering to runners in the watch presentation. In the offseason I run about 20 to 30 miles per week, and I can tell you bluetooth headphones suck for running. They fall out easily as soon as I start sweating. Also, during training season the headphones will run out of juice if I don't remember to plug them in. They also drain the phone's battery - on a 30 minute run that's no problem, but on a 2-hour run that sucks. The best earphones are over the head, light-weight ones I can tuck under my cap whcih keeps them in place.

Oh well, maybe on the 8 they have a change of heart. And if they don't... there's always OpenMoko

<comment><USER8> Also a runner. My choice for headphones are commodity (<$10) Philips with over-the-ear loops to hold them in place. Because I sweat a lot, they rarely last more than a few months, so cheap matters. (I have nicer Bose headphones for non-running.) Bluetooth phones that cost 5x as much? out of the question.

Edit: In previous version I accidentally said Samsung Headphones.

<comment><USER9> Cheap may be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Personally, I could never run with corded headphones again. I've used Motorola S8/S9 forever. Get last gen for $30-40, and they've held up to years of sweat.

<comment><USER8> Self-fulfilling in what way?

I've probably spent a hundred bucks on fifteen pairs of Philips over the years. And they're cheap enough that I can keep a pair in my bag, a pair in my house, and a pair in my car. Most of my listening is podcasts. They sound fine for that.

In contrast, I only have one pair of noise canceling Bose headphones which cost 3x as much as all the Philips put together. They sound great and are wonderful for the train to work, but they were also very expensive and I don't run with them.

<comment><USER10> They meant that you said your headphones don't last long and it could be because they were so cheap in the first place (not saying I agree or disagree without knowing which model you mean)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I think I speak for a lot of people when I say that cameras are nice and so are Retina displays but what we'd really like to see is a big splashy page about whatever's new with the Secure Enclave Processor in the 7.

Not because there's anything wrong with the 6! Ivan Krstic's talk about Apple platform security at Black Hat was probably the best talk of the whole event. Nobody is delivering seamlessly integrated chipset-up-through-application security the way Apple is. Forget about in mobile devices; I mean, in computing, period.

I'm excited to learn what else is coming there!

<comment><USER12> I'm also really excited about this. A lot of people have been distracted by a single issue and are missing some really nice features of this phone.

Beyond the secure enclave, if the haptic home button is anything like the new trackpads, it'll be an amazing feature. One less moving part to break. And the cameras...wow. Finally decent depth of field on the camera that's always in my pocket.

<comment><USER13> _Finally decent depth of field on the camera that 's always in my pocket._

Recently I upgraded to the Samsung Galaxy S7. It was about $400 and it has an incredible camera; far better than my old iPhone 5s, and it looks substantially better than the iPhone 6/6s photos I have seen. Plus, it has a headphone jack, microSD support (so nice to be able to upgrade), and a really beautiful screen. Yes, Samsung installed some bloatware but some of it is actually useful (their UI for toggling radios is quite good) Android Kit-Kat is solid. To me, this was Android's first reasonable phone.

<comment><USER12> I had an S2, an S3, and an S4. After trying each one for a month, I reverted to the respective iPhone. Trust me I've tried. I'm sure the S7 is great, and maybe it is the first "reasonable" phone from Samsung, but I have yet to use an iPhone that I didn't like. I have used 3 Samsung phones that were laggy and loaded up with garbage apps.

<comment><USER14> The S6 and S7 have really good cameras, competitive with the iPhone absolutely.

<comment><USER13> I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that! That was really my entire point, that good cameras (with natural DoF) exist outside of Apple.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I'm not even upset about the headphone jack. Whatever. I'm really upset because you won't be able to do the following:

1.) Audio+GPS+Charging in non-Bluetooth Car.

2.) Listening to music at desk and still have enough charge for the Audio+GPS for the drive home.

3.) No more listening to music/audiobooks as I fall asleep because in the morning the iPhone won't be charged for my desk usage the next day unless I wake up and plug it back in during my sleep.

They can do whatever they want with the headphone jack, but pretending like we don't need to plug the phone in!! Thats daft.

<comment><USER16>
      > Audio+GPS+Charging in non-Bluetooth Car.

I can do this with iPhone 6 already. And could do with iPhone 5. In a 2013 model year car. There is an USB port in my car, connect lightning cable and thats it: phone is charging, music is playing.

<comment><USER17> I don't know about you, but to me, 2013 is relatively recent. Plenty of cars don't have that capability.

<comment><USER18> I do this in my 2006 Nissan with a $100 stereo faceplate.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> For comparison, here's how HN reacted to some previous iPhone launches:

iPhone 6s: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10193201](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10193201)

iPhone 6: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8292029](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8292029)

iPhone 5s: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6361558](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6361558)

iPhone 5: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4512316](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4512316)

<comment><USER20> This thread has been getting 2x as many upvotes and comments as the other releases. Interesting.

Similarly, this year iPhone SE got even more upvotes (567) than all of these [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11330226](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11330226)

Maybe due to an upswing in HN traffic? Lack of other news today (it has been slow)?

I'm not sure this release was particularly exciting.

<comment><USER21> It could be related to increased moderator diligence in culling Apple threads today. Previously, the front page would become clogged the days new models were announced. # of upvotes on single threads is not particularly useful absent more context/ information.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> I somehow expected a ton of conversation around the new A10 Fusion chip. After 340+ comments I couldn't find any mention of it (I just did a page search for A10, A10 Fusion). Apple were already ahead with their per-core performance but seems like they have widened the gap even further this time with their version of the big.LITTLE arrangement. Wonder how Qualcomm's next chips will be. From what I heard, 820 will be the last custom chip they will do and from now on the CPU will be just the reference ARM chips and they will focus on the GPU and better integration of radios on the chip. Someone with more knowledge (about Apple's and Qualcomm's chip) please fill in.

<comment><USER23> I would be surprised if Qualcomm only did reference designs after the 820. They were forced to switch to the reference 64 bit ARM design after Apple leapfrogged mobile chipmakers and it really hurt them. They had a lot of trouble with the big.LITTLE architecture and power management which led to 810 power issues which somewhat led to Samsung dropping them for the S6.

With the 820 Qualcomm was able to make their own custom cores (I think they went with 2 or 4 instead of 8) and generally overcome the 810 trainwreck. Qualcomm's ability to integrate the radio, GPU, DSP, crypto chip and some other things with a custom CPU into a true SOC is really a massive advantage within mobile and I expect them to build on that with more custom designs.

One last note about big.LITTLE. It seems like a panacea - just move all the big jobs to the big processors and the little ones to the little processors, yay! But this is much, much harder in practice. Doing this wrong leads to disastrous UX, screen tears because rendering shifts off of the big cores being one prime example. Process scheduling is already very tough and current schedulers are the result of many years of experimentation and heuristic best practices. Of course Apple controls the whole stack (i.e. they don't need to worry about where Kernel maintainers want to go with the schedulers) and I'm sure they have some amazing engineers working on Darwin so maybe they were able to overcome problems here. If you can schedule correctly it does seem like a big power savings win. But (and I may be behind the times here) that is a big if...

<comment><USER24> Well at least for screen renders you can make sure render threads stay on the big cores and with GCD you can use thread priorities to determine what to put on which core. iOS has concepts of active/inactive and is mostly a one-app-at- a-time os. They also have a well defined background processing modes and extension API. With all of this structure, I don't think it will be as hard as we think it will be.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> It's water resistant but water damage isn't covered under warranty? How can you have it both ways like that?

"Water resistance IP67 under IEC standard 60529. Liquid damage not covered under warranty."

How does one make such a big deal of it being water resistant (Product film: 1m 35s; "...to make this the first water resistant iPhone") but not cover liquid damage under warranty?

<comment><USER26> It's just setting expectations.

The series 1 watch had the same caveats but proved very water resistant in practice. To make stronger promises you need to understand how the seals age and how the device behaves in lots of situations, or you need to over-engineer it with bulky seals and other compromises. You also need to understand and deal with extremely tight manufacturing tolerances.

If Apple said the iPhone was waterproof people would take it scuba diving then post YouTube videos showing how "crapp" the new iPhone is, then we'd have watergate (lol) all over the tech press.

Much like Trump/Hillary, people don't hold anyone else to the same high standard they hold Apple to. (If Trump manages to not vomit on himself at the first debate he'll be declared the winner by the media. )

<comment><USER27> For reference, I took my supposedly not-shower-proof Apple Watch diving to 30 feet and it was fine. I could even use the touchscreen and heart rate monitor underwater to some extent.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> They used the word "courage" during the keynote. I would say the actual words are "lock in" and "licensing fees". I would have been ok with USB-C because at least those will be able to move between machines.

The adapter is useless for me since it doesn't allow power to be supplied so my long drives are now problematic. I guess I'll have to take that into account on buying the next car.

<comment><USER29> I'm sure some 3rd party will come out with a combined charging & audio adapter.

<comment><USER30> Apple has one too - it's called the dock

<comment><USER28> I'm not sure the Apple dock works so well in a car.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> I'm disappointed by how boring the two-camera solution in the 7 Plus is. I was really hoping they were going show something interesting, like fusion of the two sensors through computational photography into one, with better low-light performance and less noise through downsampling. Or take +1 & -1 exposures simultaneously for a greater dynamic range.

Instead we got a button to switch from one lens to the other, for a 2x optical zoom. That's it. 99% of the time that second sensor and lens will do absolutely zilch. The computational bokeh appears to only use the 56mm lens for the actual photo, and the other lens to capture a depth map to compute the fake bokeh. This is hardly any better than the existing fake bokeh solutions shown many times before on Androids, Nokias and in iOS apps over the years that do the same, except it's a bit faster. The whole thing feels like just another checkbox feature, with very little actual value.

<comment><USER32> The two photos they showed to demonstrate the depth of field effect looked absolutely terrible. The edge of the mask was extremely blurry. It looked like something you could create in a photo editing app in a few seconds by just drawing over the background with a blur brush.

<comment><USER31> That is pretty much exactly what's happening, minus the manual brushing.

A depth map and face recognition is used to locate the foreground subject and a heavy blur filter is applied to the background layer. For the same reason we don't have software today that does perfect (or even halfway decent) automatic masking of faces, the edges become a blurry mess. You don't get any of the beautiful out-of-focus point of light scattering, because the lenses are incapable of capturing it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> Well, it's official - Apple has failed again! Doomed I tell you, doomed! Forget the performance enhancements, better battery life, fantastic new cameras, etc, etc - I have to use a new earbud cable. Plus, Jony Ive is going around putting super glue in all the old iPhone audio jacks, so I can't even use my existing earbuds with my existing iPhone. Plus, Apple is charging me $0.00 for the adapter so that I can use my ratty old earbuds with my new phone. Doomed, I tell you.

<comment><USER34> You jest, but only the first adapter is free. Subsequent adapters will be $9.99.

<comment><USER35> Super extreme nitpick, it's listed at $9.00 on Apple's store:

[http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMX62AM/A/lightning- to-35-...](http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMX62AM/A/lightning-to-35-mm- headphone-jack-adapter)

I must say, I'm a bit shocked at the price. I wouldn't have expected Apple to sell a _paperclip_ for under $19. Their Lightning to USB cable, which seems like it must be strictly simpler than this adapter (no DAC!) costs $19.

<comment><USER36> How small are DACs? I was surprised that the new Lightning earbuds basically look identical to the current ones besides the jack. Do they definitely have a DAC built in or is it still in the phone body?

<comment><USER35> Looks like they're pretty small. They're single chips, and small ones at that. Here's a datasheet for one I found at random:

[http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/pcm1754-q1.pdf](http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/pcm1754-q1.pdf)

That lists the size as about 6x5x2mm. Should fit comfortably within a lightning connector.

Consider that the new wireless earbuds have a DAC in each earbud, _plus_ a full Bluetooth radio, all squeezed in there.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> The premiere of the next mbp next year: "And... We listened to you. We've been hearing that you are upset about not being able to use the same headphones for your computer and iphone 7. We fixed that. We've removed the 3.5mm jack from the new mbp. It's magical."

<comment><USER38> Oh also, lighting port. For everything. Not USB3, _lightning_. _FUCKYOUEXTERNALMONITORS_.

But in all seriousness, if they make the port count any lower, the MacBook Pro will cease to be a laptop. It will become an iPad without a touchscreen.

<comment><USER39> Except where the iPad Pro actually has _more_ ports than the Macbook (Lightning, 3.5mm, whatever-that-pro-keyboard-magnetic-port-contacts-thingy- is.

<comment><USER40> But the iPad Pro is a pro device. The Macbook isn't. They do have a Macbook pro device, it's call the Macbook Pro, and it has a (relative to Apple's other offerings) ton of ports. 2x USB3, 2x Thunderbolt, 3.5mm, SD card, and HDMI.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> I have two thoughts on the headphone jack:

1\. Most of the use cases being discussed here are irrelevant for the average iPhone user. Charging and listening at the same time is not a thing for most users. I know there are perfectly reasonable scenarios where it is useful, but most people don't care. Regarding battery life: personally, I use my iPhone quite a lot, often with bluetooth headphones, and I have had to charge it only once or twice during the daytime in the last two years. If you play a lot of games, or use GPS intensively for a few hours, then battery life could be an issue. For the average consumer, I don't think it will be a major concern.

2\. OTOH, in the last few years headphones have become a very, very big market. They are a huge status symbol for teenagers and early 20-somethings. If you've saved a lot of money to afford a pair in that stage of life, the headphone jack is a big deal. It's not going to be "cool" to carry around an adapter all the time, and regardless people will hear "no headphone jack" and be annoyed. That demographic seems key to me in maintaining Apple's market lead over the long term, i.e. trend-setting young people.

Overall, I actually think that (2) will be a very big issue. Whilst I am of the opinion that wires are horrible in general, Apple may have misread its market here.

<comment><USER42> Even as someone who uses bluetooth headphones 100% of the time, I'm still pretty unhappy with this as they don't even support the industry standard for high quality bluetooth audio: apt-x (or if they did, I must've missed it somehow).

<comment><USER43> Most support AAC though, which is in the Bluetooth standard somewhere. At least when connected to the iPhone that sounds as good as apt-X, even on really good headphones.

I've run into this issue a few times with headphones that do: \- apt-X only \- apt-X + AAC \- AAC only \- neither

and as long as it supports AAC it sounds good with Apple devices. Sadly, manufacturers don't really put it on the label so it's hard to know.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER44>
      The high-gloss finish of the Jet Black iPhone 7 is
      achieved through a precision nine-step anodization and
      polishing process. Its surface is equally as hard as
      other anodized Apple products; however, its high shine
      may show fine micro-abrasions with use. If you are
      concerned about this, we suggest you use one of the many
      cases available to protect your iPhone.[1]

I think I'd go for the Black one instead.

[1][http://www.apple.com/shop/buy- iphone/iphone-7](http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-7)

<comment><USER45> I never use a case for my phones. Honestly, I kinda like the way phones "wear down". It's mine, and I scratched it up a bit, no problem.

<comment><USER46> If you plan to resell it (either as an upgrade program, or as used pre-owned) then a case helps you retain resale value.

Used to be I could just gift to my relatives, but they're pretty happy with their iPhone5's.

<comment><USER47> So keeping it in a case for two years is worth the extra $20 when it's time to sell it?

<comment><USER46> Spread between "like new" and "good" condition can be much more than $20, esp. on eBay.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER48> Can the 3.5mm to Lightning adapters be legally produced without paying royalties to Apple for using the Lightning connector?

On a related note: I wonder if one reason for eliminating the jack is to close that open interface which some devices like the "Square" were using. I'm not sure how much of an impact this has though; it was just a thought.

<comment><USER49> Pretty sure that the adapter would work just as well (I don't know anything about the readers, but assume they are just encoding the CC info as an analog signal and listening to it over the microphone port... I wonder how easily they might be snooped via EMI).

<comment><USER50> Even if the electrical functionality doesn't change, the mechanical functionality has. With a flexible cable between, it will be far more cumbersome to hold the phone and reader, while swiping a card.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER51> Feeling pretty disillusioned by another iPhone and iOS update. The 3.5mm coupled with lightning instead of USB-C just look like obvious traps for lock in with no real gain (5hr of playback time?!)

iOS still continues its march of adding minor features that should be in regular OTA updates and packing them up with some serious marketing hype. There's barely any improvement here and most of the features are already well implemented in Android / Google Apps or Facebook Messenger.

Disappointing.

<comment><USER52> > already well implemented in Android

Yup. I remember the original iPhone/iPad announcements where many features were fairly innovative. Now applauded feature announcements are for features already out on Android phones.

<comment><USER53> Show me an Android phone that will provide the hassle-free experience Apple promises with those AirPods. That's the most innovative part of this event for me.

<comment><USER54> So I just bought some backbeat fit headphones, which use bluetooth. To get them working with my Android phone I: \- pressed the on button on the headphones \- pressed the pair button on my phone

I mean, bar special hooks Apple can have because they don't give a fuck about standards, I really don't see how that is hard.

<comment><USER55> Same experience with my 6P and my el cheapo Bluetooth gym headphones. Turned headphones on, hit pair, good to go. Apple has done "hassle-free" very well historically, but that doesn't mean that other vendors are incapable of it.

<comment><USER40> Which is the same with pairing to an iPhone. I hit "pair" on the headset, click the headset name on the Bluetooth screen, the headset says "connected" and boom done.

The real hassle is in my car, which unfortunately this doesn't solve. Toyota's system isn't the best. I have to hit a button then say "pair audio". Wait no, it's "pair audio player". No... wait it's "pair bluetooth"... ah I'll get the manual. Okay, got the phrase right. Now I have to press the button again and say "confirm". Now it asks me what I want to call my audio player. That's fine. Hit button again and say "confirm". Now I have to decide if I'm pairing from the car or from the audio player? I have no idea what that means. From the car I guess? Hit button again and say confirm. Okay now it's searching... but my phone says pairing failed. Okay, now it's kicked me out and I get to start over again. Let's pair from the phone this time. Nope, that failed too. Let's pair from the car again? Hey it worked!

And in between every button press, there is an ear-splitting beep that can't be adjusted with the volume controls in the car. And even then, I can only store three phones in memory, and it remembered both of my failed attempts plus my wife's phone that I paired for her. So to try a third time, I have to remove one of them... so it asks "which audio player do you want to remove?" then it lists all of them... "Player 1: iPhone". "Player 2: iPhone". "Player 3: iPhone". Fantastic.

Most of the time I just use the USB cable, except when I updated to iOS 10 and it started saying Error: 5 randomly during a song.

Pairing a headset with a phone is the easiest thing in the world, and it happens to be the "problem" that Apple solved. But the real problem is pairing with dumb "smart" devices that unfortunately are everywhere.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER56> This is a Nice Device. You can read my other comments lamenting the headphone jack, this comment isn't about that.

The screen is beautiful. The two cameras are a clever trick that I hope work as well as advertised -- and their cameras have been historically very good. Splash resistance is _overdue_ , but appreciated.

But A10 is a bit of a disappointment [1][2], only as powerful as the A9X. Do they have any new hardware encode/decode blocks at least?

With A9 they were having yield issues and had to different traces being manufactured by two different fabs to enhance capacity. What do we know on the chip front?

[1] [https://www.techtastic.nl/smartphones/apple-a10-soc-van- ipho...](https://www.techtastic.nl/smartphones/apple-a10-soc-van-iphone-7-net- zo-snel-als-ipad-pro/)

[2] [http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/iphone-7-benchmarked- here...](http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/iphone-7-benchmarked-here-s-how- powerful-apple-s-new-phone-might-be)

<comment><USER57> A9X has a far higher thermal envelope than a smartphone processor, if the A10 is as powerful I'd say that's very impressive.

</comment></comment><comment><USER58> I found the WhatsApp integration the most intriguing part of the announcement. By allowing calls from WhatsApp to also be received, I am assuming they are making the native calling/iMessaging API available to any iOS application.

While messaging with iMessage, Facebook messenger, WhatsApp, etc. can be done over WiFi only, calling is traditionally reliant on a cellular provider. The new iPhone only requires a WiFi network, and with the proliferation of WiFi and the first city-wide networks (e.g. Barcelona), it is possible that in the next decade all communication will be done over the Internet.

Also, during a recent trip to Japan I saw an $120 SIM card that gives unlimited Internet access for a year. This works out to $10/month, which is far less than what I pay for Verizon. So in a way this new iPhone may eventually cause cellular networks to primarily become providers of remote Internet access, as telephony shifts to the apps that the local people use to connect with each other.

<comment><USER59> >I saw an $120 SIM card that gives unlimited Internet access for a year

Do you remember which telecom this was?

<comment><USER58> I went with a Japanese friend to a store called Nojima, which seemed to be the Best Buy equivalent for Japan. There was an entire wall of prepaid SIM cards, and there was a promotion for two 6-month SIM cards for 12,000 yen. I wouldn't have been able to find it had I not been with a Japanese native.

I got a 1 month SIM card for 2,200 yen ($22) which still works out to far less than what I pay Verizon. The network name on the top of my iPhone said "docomo".

<comment><USER60> > "docomo"

That would be NTT.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER61> $160 for the AirPods? My goodness those are expensive.

<comment><USER62> I recently paid $350+ for Bose wireless noise cancelling headphones, the problem with over the ear headphones is that I can't wear them for a long time while I work for example, my head become hot and I want to hear what is around. I like the weight of the regular iphone headphones, I can wear them indefinitely, I am pretty sure case will be the same with AirPods, so I think the price is justified.

<comment><USER63> If you want a really comfortable set of headphones (not earbuds) that sound good and don't block your hearing, consider the Sennheiser HD 558.

They're circumaural, so they sit comfortably on the sides of your head rather than mashing your pinnae flat, and their velour pads are nicely breathable; they also mass only a quarter kilogram (260g), and they're an open-back design so that ambient noise is merely reduced rather than totally occluded. (Also, unlike closed-back and especially noise-canceling headphones, they do not produce a constant pressure on your eardrums, which has been suggested to cause hearing loss and certainly plays a role in listening fatigue.) Their reproduction is quite good as well, with a surprisingly flat frequency response for the price range; if that suits you, you're good to go, and if you prefer otherwise, they won't interfere with you EQing your music to your heart's content.

Depending on where you find them, they run anywhere from $100 (Amazon Prime) to $180 (MSRP), so they're considerably less expensive than your QC15s, too. I really can't recommend them favorably enough.

<comment><USER21> > noise-canceling headphones, they do not produce a constant pressure on your > eardrums, which has been suggested to cause hearing loss and certainly plays > a role in listening fatigue.

Are you saying that the feeling of pressure will stretch the eardrum or something?

<comment><USER63> I think that or something like it would have to be the mechanism. I don't really know a lot about research in that area, but I know I'm not the only one who finds that closed-back headphones produce earache after a few hours, and noise-canceling ones in less time than that.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER64> OT / @dang: This thread really makes one appreciate the new collapsible comments!

<comment><USER65> collapsing is really slow, it takes 3-5 seconds on safari + mba.

<comment><USER17> This is happening to me on Android (Chrome); the page completely freezes and can't be scrolled for 3-5 seconds. I assumed it was my phone reflowing or something, but I feel like it shouldn't be that bad, and if it's also happening on MBA, it _really_ shouldn't be that bad

<comment><USER66> Same delay on iOS, but still much faster than scrolling past 700+ comments.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER67> Honestly if you had an iPhone 6 why would you upgrade? Better battery life is cool, and it being waterproof is novel. However, its basically the same phone for the end consumer.

<comment><USER68> They specifically made comparisons to the A8 chip (in the 6 and 6+) during the event and emphasized the speed increase. Apple knows their true problem is getting old iPhone users to upgrade.

Also, did you see the event? Not the same phone at all.

Wide color, awesome new camera and dropping it in the toilet might be enough.

<comment><USER69> > emphasized the speed increase

Isn't the iPhone 6 already "fast enough" for end users?

My current phone is a Moto G 2014 which is still good enough for all my use cases.

<comment><USER70> Do you play a lot of games on your phone?

<comment><USER71> Do people play a lot of graphics intensive games on phones?

<comment><USER72> I do and the battery only last an hour. We need bigger batteries. CPU speed is never the issue.

<comment><USER34> Naive question: do faster cores perform slower tasks with more efficiency? In other words, if a game uses 80% of the old processor, but only 50% of the new one, is there an impact on the battery life just by being a faster CPU?

<comment><USER73> Yes. Especially with multiple cores, gets more work done quicker and the core can shutdown. The core can also scale down where it is presumably more efficient.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER74> Enough about the headphone jack going away - isn't anyone concerned with how big of a deal they made about Pokemon on the Apple watch?

Apple looked so uncool and out of it when they continued to talk about it. Half the crowd has forgotten Pokemon Go even existed by this point.

<comment><USER75> They looked astonishing lame all throughout by constantly having to tell the viewer how glorious and awesome everything was. If they can't just tell us what the feature is and let us be amazed by the feature itself, then whatever they're saying just isn't that great. I don't care how many transistors are in a processor, it's trivia. I don't care what a marvel of engineering the W1 is. I don't even care that they dug out their childhood rock polishers to make the new case shiny.

<comment><USER76> That's basically apple's keynote style, going all the way back to Steve. I always find the design videos interesting (the ones with Ive narrating).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER77> I'm seriously not comfortable with getting audio through a digital port that has an authentication chip built in. That's HDCP and DRM for music waiting to burst into life.

"Unauthorized playback."

<comment><USER78> You mean a DAC, like the iPhone already had built-in to provide you with sound out through the 3.5mm jack?

</comment></comment><comment><USER79> AirPods - so is walking around with a thing in your ear cool now? Around here it certainly still signals "I am a jackass"

<comment><USER80> Especially when they look like this: [https://s.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2016/09/apple7-...](https://s.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2016/09/apple7-1468.jpg)

<comment><USER81> I think they looking fucking awesome. What don't you like about them, people only see the stem?

That said I would not just walk around like an asshat with them in all the time or anything.

<comment><USER61> They look _ok_ in my opinion, but as soon as I take like 5 steps when I go running, I may as well kiss them and $160 goodbye as the damn thing(s) will just fall right out of my ears.

<comment><USER81> They are not for running. They said specifically beats was coming out with a line for that.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER82> What are they going to do with the 3.5mm audio jacks on Macs? So Apple removes the 3.5mm audio jack from the phone & adds a lightening port to the mac?

It makes me imagine how nice it would have been to ditch both the 3.5mm & lightening port & replace it with a USB-C port across product lines.

Obviously that would have been even more drastic in many ways, but I can't help but think that they have painted themselves into a strange corner.

<comment><USER83> I wouldn't mind a lighting port instead of the 3.5 mm jack on my mac. My last macbook, the 3.5mm jack was the one thing that failed, surprisingly. It had a tiny switch inside to go between optical and electrical, and that switch would get stuck in the optical position. Basically I couldn't use headphones half the time.

</comment></comment><comment><USER84> Cool - more dongles, adaptors + what not to carry around and lose and then pay apple another $40 for each time. I say this writing on my Thunderbolt display that has since been rendered obsolete if I ever want a new macbook

<comment><USER85> Yes, what is the plan for this?

I ask as my 2012 MBP non-retina needs replacing at some point (I think I'll shove as SSD in first, to get 3 more years life) but where do we go from here?

</comment></comment><comment><USER86> I submitted the URL for archival as have a lot of other people done, but what I found strange is that there are archived versions of "page not found" results going all the way back to 2014.

[http://web.archive.org/web/20160907200621*/http://www.apple....](http://web.archive.org/web/20160907200621*/http://www.apple.com/iphone-7/)

Meanwhile, nobody has attempted to archive links for iPhone 8.

I guess maybe the IA crawlers found links to the page from elsewhere. Links made either by mistake or by someone making a joke about the release of iPhone 7 back in 2014 and betting on people not actually following the link. I dunno.

</comment><comment><USER87> I have a design issue with AirPods. When my earphones (with wire) fall off (and it happens when you're running or doing some other similar activity), I know for sure, that me or someone else accidentally won't crush them, because the wires often prevent them from falling on the floor. I don't know how the current design of AirPods would prevent that.

<comment><USER65> I don't use in-ear because they've always fallen very easily from my ears, and I always feel like its the wires that are pulling them off.

I imagine these new ones would stay better because the lack of weight from the wires. I'm not excited about them though, I don't use headphones outside, and at home I don't need new ones.

</comment></comment><comment><USER88> > 2× louder than iPhone 6s

Just the thing BART & MUNI really needed.

<comment><USER89> People on Bay Area transit use their speaker? I don't think I have seen that on a Seattle Metro bus more than a handful of times.

</comment></comment><comment><USER90> 2.4Ghz is super congested. 802.11g is. Bluetooth is. Even your microwave is on 2.4GHz. If everybody starts to use Bluetooth headphones all the time, I fear it's gonna make it totally unusable.

<comment><USER91> There are tons of call center farms with people packed very closesly using Bluetooth headsets (and have been for a decade) and there doesn't seem to be an issue

<comment><USER90> Are you sure about them being Bluetooth? I'd be interested to know how they make it work.

If you meant something like this [0], DECT [1] works on a different frequence band.

[0] [https://en-us.sennheiser.com/phone-headset-wireless-call- cen...](https://en-us.sennheiser.com/phone-headset-wireless-call-center- headset-dw-pro-2)

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Enhanced_Cordless_Tele...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Enhanced_Cordless_Telecommunications)

<comment><USER92> Yes, they are likely DECT, my last job we used Plantronics CS500 headsets which are in fact DECT. Though, regardless of the protocol used (DECT 6.0 uses 1.9GHz) congestion is always an issue with that many devices in close proximity, especially at the range I can take DECT headsets - in fact, this is why I bought a CS500 for home use along with the EHS adapter for my Polycom Soundpoint IP 335, it's nice that I can be on a conference call for work and go out to the garage to grab something quick without having to carry my phone in my pocket.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER93> Can somebody explain why a lens with f1.8 is not able to provide the depth of field effect on itself?

<comment><USER94> Sensor size. Depth of field is based on (1) sensor size (you want big), (2) aperture (you want a low number, i.e. big opening), (3) focus distance to nearest subject, and (4) focal length (I think...).

So on a full frame sensor camera, shooting someone's portrait with an 80mm will give you very shallow DoF, on a sensor the size of an iPhone, it's probably close to infinite.

Edit: I don't think the above is technically exactly correct...Here's a good explanation: [http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/depth-of- field.ht...](http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/depth-of-field.htm)

<comment><USER95> Nit-pick: more exit pupil than sensor size, but they're a rough approximation anyhow.

But you're correct that the short (actual, not equivalent) focal length of camera phones makes an f/1.8 completely irrelevant.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER96> so, what's the next market/eco-system?

mobiles are mature products and the players are strictly in cash-cow or market share mode. nothing of importance is changing.

I've got an iphone se and an iphone 4 and you can't tell me that's the most they can do for 6 years of product development by one of the richest companies in the world. (yes i know that it's faster with more a and more b and more c etc)

Apple needs to drip feed improvements over the next x years to keep sales up so we can't expect anything game changing.

"The Others" are trying this and that but nothing seems to be sticking, probably not able to drive consumer desire enough.

so if nothing is happening, what is the post-phone next-big-thing to get into?

<comment><USER97> Super slick AR glasses... If they ever arrive.

<comment><USER98> Yes, agreed on this. Just for fun, I'll make a prediction on timelines so I can look back on this in 5 years and see how it played out (and probably laugh at myself):

Closed VR headsets (maybe some AR, but still bulky headsets) for the next couple of years, with moderate adoption amongst gadget lovers, enough of a market for lots of investment and R&D, but ultimately never make it mainstream.

In around 5 years' time, with miniaturisation + battery improvements, the tech eventually evolves into a light, practical and nice-looking AR glasses form- factor which does achieve mainstream adoption and becomes ubiquitous - possibly even replacing the glass-slab smartphone as the primary mobile computing device for a majority of people.

</comment></comment></comment><comment> ng-user > "Up to 5hr. of battery life on one charge"

How the fuck is it acceptable to completely remove the jack and replace it with this 'superior' technology?

<comment><USER53> It's not like they're shipping a free adapter. You could also use a Bluetooth headset of your choice that has a bigger battery.

Or you could just buy a different phone. It's their product, what is "acceptable" is up to them.

(Yes, the first part is sarcasm.)

<comment><USER99> They ARE shipping a free adapter.

Edit: Looks like you wanted to say this, but made a typo.

<comment><USER100> i think it was sarcasm

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER101> We knew it was going to happen, but I am still disappointed the 3.5mm jack is gone.

<comment><USER102> They provide the lightening-to-jack adapter for free in the box.

<comment><USER103> Because everyone loves adapters...

<comment><USER104> Apple users surely seem to. I hardly see them without carrying their vga and sometimes rj45 converters, if not also a custom phone charger.

<comment><USER73> Seems that Apple dismissed the rj45 per just as wifi became ubiquitous. And that the majority of the purpose of Apple TV is airplay.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER105> I think Apple needs to add a few younger people to their executive team, because it seams they no longer can even pretend to be exited during the presentation.

<comment><USER106> Well perhaps what they really need then is to start making exiting products again.

Didn't have one since Steve Jobs died.

<comment><USER105> Well 5K Imac was nice, but other than that you are right

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER107> I know this is a minority use case, but my iPhone is a great tool for testing whether audio equipment is working or not when I'm doing media system installs. Simply plug in the iPhone and play some sounds. Alas...

</comment><comment><USER108> They just solidified the iPhone SE as the best product they offer. No way to charge the iPhone7 and use wired headphones at the same time. A camera wart so the phone isn't flat like the SE. The loss of extra battery by going with a wart over a thicker, easier to hold phone like the SE.

I'll be sticking with my 5S, and my wife is no longer upgrading her 4S to the 7 as we were planning.

We love our iPhones, but we do need to replace hers and now looking for non- Apple alternatives since while I prefer the SE over everything on the market, she thought she was going to want the 7 Plus.

<comment><USER89> Why did she think she was going to want the 7 Plus? What is it about the SE that isn't appealing? What is it that she was expecting in the 7 Plus that the 6s Plus doesn't offer?

This is an honest question, I have continually upgraded my iPhones for years and this new phone doesn't speak to me either but you are on much older hardware, what about the new phones doesn't speak to you?

Personally I am considering a move to the SE because the form factor of the 6/6s is still too big in my opinion and the 7 doesn't seem to offer me anything I actually need or want.

<comment><USER108> I keep mine in my pocket, I never saw a reason to go back to the 4.7" Android phones that I used for 5 years prior to moving to iOS. 4" is the right size for a phone IMO. I only have notifications enabled for calls and texts, I'm not the type to be into my phone like a fool and look at it while driving, and I only use it for useful purposes. Random Teamviewer access, checking Google News, Feedly, check personal/work email, check deposits/banking. I also have smaller hands, and need to hold onto metal rails as I ride the train and bus. I almost fumble 4.7"\+ phones when using them 1-handed.

She usually has her purse and uses her phone more than me, essentially as a tablet. Playing games often such as something I've become accustomed to, Cookie Run. It's really preference. She doesn't mind the larger phone and doesn't mind the inconvenient size for day to day use.

I'm very letdown the 7(Plus) doesn't have a Lightning port pass-through port on the new charging cables. I can let go of 3.5mm, as I don't have any particularly great investment in headphones, but I can't accept inability to charge and use a wired headset at the same time.

I think they will bring in Lightning port pass-through cables with the iPhone7S, but right now want to rake in expensive, more quickly obsolescent (batteries) wireless Beats headphones before they do that.

Wireless stuff to me just means 1 more thing that needs charging, and while I do like those LG around-the-neck Bluetooth headsets, I dislike being forced into it if I want to charge my phone and use a headset.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER109> The keynote was trying to boast the gaming capabilities with a demo of… 400 monkeys.

Weak. Give me 400 monkeys, then 4000 monkeys, then 400 000 monkeys, and now the monkeys are forming a fractal, but the fractal is just the surface of a sphere, and zooming out there are a million spheres, and the spheres form… a monkey.

Now THAT's a demo.

<comment><USER110> haha very cool :) Gaming push was very lame indeed. All these pokemons, monkeys and even F1.. who cares.

</comment></comment><comment><USER111> picture two friends in a car: "oh hey this music is the jam, let me play it for you."

5 minutes of dicking with bluetooth pairing later: "FUCKING BLUETOOTH GODDAMN IT. welp, never mind"

(conversational lull follows)

<comment><USER76> So one interesting aspect of the airpods is seemingly automatic pairing, without having to dive in settings, through what seems like near-field communication. I'm curious to see if they've solved the multi-device pairing problem too.

<comment><USER35> The thing is, the pairing UI is rarely the problem. It's the actual pairing implementation. Pairing a phone to a car is usually just a few button presses. Not quite as convenient as NFC or whatever, but not a real problem. The problem arises when you find that Pair button and press it and then it doesn't work and provides no feedback on why it failed. Cue five minutes of screwing around turning things off and on again and finally giving up.

<comment><USER76> I'm lucky to not have had that experience for initial pairing. I was recently gifted the beats headphones and they've never had an issue like that, though I do have to re-pair with every device which is my main annoyance.

I stopped using a BT trackpad because I would get disconnected randomly though, so maybe it comes down to the devices?

Also not the first time we've had a chat in HN comments. How's the robot boxing chess league? ;)

<comment><USER35> Devices no doubt play a part, and I think some of it is just dumb luck. Sometimes you might encounter a Bluetooth stack that's been wedged somehow, and it just won't go anywhere.

A few weeks ago I was riding with my father and brother in my car, and they both wanted to play some music. We paired my brother's phone and all was well. Then we did my father's phone and we simply couldn't make it work despite a great deal of trying. They have the exact same iPhone model, but one worked and one didn't. A few days later we tried my father's phone again and it worked that time. No idea why.

I almost said you had me confused with someone else, then I finally managed to remember that conversation. Where did we even talk about robot chess boxing? I remember discussing it in pretty alarming detail, but I can't remember _where_.

<comment><USER76> I had to look it up, Lee Sedol vs AlphaGo, Man vs Machine: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11304985](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11304985)

Almost half a year ago. Not sure how I remembered your name when I forget to pay my rent half the time, but that's my brain I guess.

<comment><USER35> Thank you, now I can enjoy thinking about the tournament all over again.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER112> From the website, big and bold: "iPhone. Now in stereo."

Honest question, not having owned an iPhone before - is this really the first iPhone that can produce stereo sound through the speakers? If true, that seems like a crazy thing to advertise given how standard a feature it has been in most phones for so long. On the other hand, if iPhones have had stereo output already, why shout about it now?

<comment><USER113> It's stereo in the sense that there's a speaker on the top and bottom of the phone, so that when watching media with the phone in landscape orientation you can hear good stereo audio. I'm not aware of another phone that does this; I'm sure they exist, but it's not a common feature.

<comment><USER114> Sony Xperia Z2 HTC ONE (M8,M9, etc) Nexus 6, 6P

I'm sure many others.

I can almost _see_ that distortion field works...

<comment><USER115> Where is Apple claiming they invented stereo speakers in phones? The line is literally just "iPhone. Now in stereo."

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER116> Weird. Nowhere is stated the amount of RAM the phone has. Not even [http://www.apple.com/iphone-7/specs/](http://www.apple.com/iphone-7/specs/)

Wikipedia claims 1GB ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_7](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_7)). Can't be right?

<comment><USER117> They generally don't market the amount of RAM; I had to scour blogs after the SE launch.

It seems very unlikely they'd go from 2GB (in the 6S and SE) to 1GB though. Most likely 2GB. I could see 4, but that seems quick on them to increase it compared to usual.

</comment></comment><comment><USER118> Being able to collapse comments comes in real handy here! Collapsing the headphone-jack threads...

<comment><USER119> Speaking of collapsing, does it feel really slow in this thread? It almost feels like their implementation is O(n) where n is the number of comments, and it's really struggling here. I see a very clear 500ms delay here whereas it's instant in most other threads...

</comment></comment><comment><USER120> One thing that hasn't been mentioned is AirPods seem super useful for taking phone calls and all the other apps such as Snapchat, I would wear them off all day.

Airpods might become the virtual reality for your ears.

<comment><USER121> You're right... But there is no faster way to kill the coolness of AirPods than to have it associated with the stereotype of bluetooth headset-wearing douchebags fielding phone calls in public.

</comment></comment><comment><USER49> Well, at least the lack of a headphone jack might prevent some people from using a selfie stick.

<comment><USER122> Selfie sticks work over Bluetooth now! No need for a headphone jack. The $12 one my girlfriend bought is Bluetooth.

<comment><USER49> What, so now you have to charge the selfie stick? How convenient...

<comment><USER123> >What, so now you have to charge the selfie stick?

Question is does it charge via USB, USB-C or Lightning?

<comment><USER35> The one we have uses a micro USB port.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER124> I was really impressed with the new camera. It seems to me this was a bigger improvement than what they usually do.

<comment><USER125> I'm still kind of dumbfounded that the 7 Plus has two cameras side-by-side and apparently ISN'T using them to capture 3D images. One would think this would be the best/most obvious application.

<comment><USER126> The reason for the lack of 3D is probably that the two cameras have different lenses. Once is wide angle the other is telephoto.

<comment><USER127> You can still do it, you just have to tweak your calibration parameters to accept a different focal length for the second camera. It's a huge pain but doable.

<comment><USER128> Can the perspective difference be fixed in post? It's not going to be pretty interpolating the pixels using the other lens's data.

<comment><USER127> I think you are thinking about more traditional Lightfield cameras - <USER2> doesn't appear to be that.

It definitely won't be pretty, but whomever puts the work in will probably benefit from it somehow.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER129> I was really curious how they'd handle wireless audio. In my experience, Bluetooth is slow to pair, connect, and glitchy in common environments. So I find it very indicative that the new Airpods do _not_ mention Bluetooth, and the Beats Solo3 cryptically mentions "Connections: Bluetooth, Wireless" on its product page [1]. Sadly, I don't expect them to open their tech to 3rd parties soon :(

[1] [http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MNEN2LL/A/beats- solo3-wire...](http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MNEN2LL/A/beats- solo3-wireless-on-ear-headphones-gloss- black?cid=app_Beats_Solo3Wireless_PDP_US_AOS_Solo3Wireless)

<comment><USER130> From the video, I got the impression they're using their own custom radio solution, that allows them to more easily pair. We don't know much about the reliability of the new mechanism, however.

Edit: I am wrong

<comment><USER91> The keynote addresses this. It is indeed a new wireless format

<comment><USER130> I was wrong. According go the apple website it uses Bluetooth.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER131> I've been trying out $49 Android phones lately after using an iPhone 6 Plus for over a year.

Android is getting to the point where most users will not really notice a difference between Android and IOS, even on a very inexpensive device.

<comment><USER41> > Android is getting to the point where most users will not really notice a > difference between Android and IOS, even on a very inexpensive device.

Having had experience recently with top-end Android devices, I'd beg to differ. Functionally an Android device is roughly equivalent to an iOS one, but the design, UI, responsiveness etc. is IMO miles apart.

It may be a matter of subjective taste but I would recommend that anyone reading the above and considering switching spent some serious time using Android first.

<comment><USER131> > the design, UI, responsiveness etc. is IMO miles apart.

This was my perspective too, last year. Moore's Law seems to have made Android's slower approach to smooth UI finally just about as silky as IOS, even on low end hardware.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER132> I especially enjoyed the last second comment under his breath regarding the matte black iPhone 7 pricing.

32GB standard for all models, except the matte black, which will ONLY come in 128GB, and you'll be paying $100 more at $750.

Nice underhanded move by Apple to maximize profit for what will undoubtedly be the most popular color.

First they force everyone to buy the 32GB upgrade last year on the 6S, now you're forced to do the same to 128GB, unless you want a rose colored phone.

The camera upgrade looks nice, but the headphone jack is a joke. Another wire that will inevitably fall apart like the other Apple lightning connectors.

EDIT: Jet Black, NOT Matte Black. Still dumb.

<comment><USER133> Rumors had it that they're in shorter supply than the other colors so it might make sense for them to mark that one as a premium model only. They could add a 32GB model later.

Another theory might be the branding they started with the cylindrical Mac Pro which is also this sort of gloss black. So perhaps we'll see more products with this gloss applied?

Either way, I've always ended up regretting getting a lower capacity model. I only upgrade every 3-4 years and I am definitely looking forward to 128GB or more so I don't have to juggle apps, audio, and pictures constantly. So for me that's the starting price. Steep but I don't buy phones so often so it's not my biggest budget worry.

<comment><USER132> Gloss anything always turns into a nightmare of scratches, and fingerprints. It looks pretty for about three seconds out of the box, and then it's quickly ruined. I thought they learned their less with the old plastic gloss cases, iphone2 era?

With multiple cameras as 12MP on this thing, 32GB is just going to become as silly as the 16GB model was. Embarrassing it's such a small amount on a $700 device.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER105> charging while using headphones?

<comment><USER103> Never forget, my friend. Never forget... [http://core0.staticworld.net/images/article/2015/10/slide-06...](http://core0.staticworld.net/images/article/2015/10/slide-06-apple- magic-mouse-2-100622394-large.jpg)

<comment><USER100> i think they wanted to specifically make sure people don't use these with wires attached. Apple HATES wires. Imagine their marketing people getting heart attacks when some people dare to post pictures of their shiny Apple hardware online and the magic mouse has a wire attached.

<comment><USER134> Then they should have designed it such that it doesn't take too much longer to charge than it would have taken for a normal person to pop new batteries in a generic wireless mouse.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER135> The Airpods look like a genuine improvement. I really hate untangling my earphones every time I use them. The carrying case looks brilliant; much nicer to carry a smooth case than a mess of wires in my pocket.

</comment><comment><USER136> They didn't mention wireless charging, did they?

<comment><USER137> That's a good question as during the presentation of the new features, one of them was called "Wireless" and for a moment I thought "Oh, so that's it, wireless charging too so no need for that strange dongle to charge the phone while listening to music!"

<comment><USER136> I expected exactly the same. Wireless charging was the first thing that came to mind as a basic "wireless feature".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER138> Really boring and hard to justify the cash. Wish I had a 6S so I could keep it for a year or so... I have iOS 10 right now and it's quite laggy on my 6.

Regarding the comments about how do I charge and listen, I accidentally found this dock[0]. Not sure if it's a new product.

[0] [http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MNN62/iphone-lightning- doc...](http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MNN62/iphone-lightning-dock- black?fnode=42)

</comment><comment> brian-armstrong I'm curious if this spells the end for the headphone jack in the industry. Now that's gone from the iPhone, should we expect other phones to drop it? What about tablets and laptops?

<comment><USER100> i am pretty sure it's the end of the headphone jack, IF the wireless headphones work really well. Traditionally Bluetooth headphones have always had a few quirks and annoyances (i still love mine) so if they fixed that i believe that people will see the benefits. It's kind of like the outcry when the very first iPhone did not have a keyboard at all. Only a Touchscreen ? WTF?

<comment><USER139> Yeah, that would be the case, if it only were not for the dozens of just touchscreen phones before the iPhone came out. IMO, this could be the beginning of the decline of Apple (since smartphones make majority of apples profit)

<comment><USER100> It's not that there have never been phones without a proprietary headphone jack before right ? But it's the first time a really popular phone does it, similar to when they introduced the first iPhone. Pretty sure in a few months nobody will really care about the missing headphone jack anymore, i mean the only real downside i see is losing the ability to listen with analog headphones and charging at the same time (but there will probably be adapters for that as well)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER140> Is this website a terrible viewing experience for anyone else? The videos don't work, and I can't scroll the slideshows unless I flick super fast. I'm on Chrome desktop.

</comment><comment><USER141> Surprised to see them not move from Lighting to USB-C with this. Now we'll have a new generation of EarPods that won't fit their new generation of MacBooks. It seems disjointed for how coherent a company like Apple tends to be, now that they had the opportunity to unite their product line better with purely digital audio.

Was USB-C supposed to be their future or not...? It sounded like it when they introduced the MacBook. Do their teams communicate well with a lack of strife?

</comment><comment><USER142> Still downscaling the iPhone 7 Plus resolution down to 1080p?! Still no 1-1 pixel mapping?!

I know nobody else cares...

<comment><USER143> This bothers me as well...and definitely becomes an argument against the iPhone 7 Plus. It's going to be difficult to choose between dual camera / longer battery life, and correctly mapped pixels.

<comment><USER14> At more than 400 dpi it's not really visible. I've scrutinized it heavily, and I can even (barely) see the pixels on the retina iPad and regular iPhone.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER144> I think the only people that are annoyed with the camera bulge (a functional bulge if there ever was one) are people with OCD -- it "ruins" the perfectly straight edge. It's not like you'll ever feel it in your pocket or something.

Meanwhile, just a decade or so ago most phones had camera bulges, edge bulges, antennas that stretched out from the body, were 3-4 times the thickness, etc.

</comment><comment><USER145> Great, now they have a phone with double camera wart and no jack.

Also what's up with Apple being so obsessed about pictures? I know you want to have the nude selfie in the toilet to be the best as possible, but come on!

And everything revolves around fitness. People wont get up from their bum, just because their watch tells them to. And the other who already do fitness don't need a watch to tell them how fit they are. They already know. Because they can feel it.

And I almost forgot that having now two different types of back casing is a feature apparently.

Last but not least, Apple is still ignoring the cries of millions of users about the battery life. That majority of the people would trade in the slim design for days worth of juice.

Who cares about paper thin phones when you have to put them into a case with extra battery within it to have it powered through the day?

Who cares about the seamless Jet Black casing when you put the phone into an ugly plastic case?

It looks like 'Form Over Function' again for Apple.

Good job apple, this is probably the most uninteresting keynote ever. Except for the people dancing in stockings at the end.

<comment><USER146> Apple isn't selling you an iPhone, they're selling you a dream. The idea is to make you want to be the person snapping all those great photos and most people want to be fit and active, even if we don't want to put in the effort. Apple is selling you the dream that if you just have an iPhone and Apple Watch you'll be motivated to get out, get fit, meet interesting people and sit around a fire at a beach on a summers night. That's why they are so focused on photo, and fitness.

There isn't really much innovation in the iPhone 7, it's just the next iteration of the models before it. It just doesn't sell that many phone telling people: Yeah it's a little fast, so if you feel that your phone fast enough, maybe don't buy it.

<comment><USER145> Nicely written.

It is true for a long time now, that Apple sells a lifestyle. It really kicked off when they introduced the iPod and the new line of Mac's not to mention the debut of the iPhone.

I'm not denying the genius behind their marketing strategy, but I'm wondering when this cow will start giving less milk.As more and more people in the upcoming generations are tech literate, the harder it will get to impress them with a better camera and a shiny gloss finish.

I feel this road doesn't lead to more useful innovations. Maybe it will lead to a fitter, happier life with loads of pictures in it.

<comment><USER147> Why not ask the same question of Nike or Addidas? The number of people who wear sportswear for fashion FAR outstrips those who wear it for sports alone. And that cash cow seems far from milked, what with the recent fashion trend of athliesure...

My point is, tech literacy is irrelevant; the lifestyle brand is everything.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER148> I'm having a hard time seeing the value add on the AirPods that justifies paying ~5x the cost of stock Bluetooth earphones.

Siri integration and easier charging is definitely really cool, but not worth paying $120 over regular Bluetooth headphones that will probably be copy cat'ing that functionality in t minus 3, 2, 1...

<comment><USER149> Unless Bluetooth earphones support AAC over Bluetooth, they are going to sound bad on an iPhone. So there is the potential for the Airpods to sound much better than cheaper earphones. Looking at the presentation, they do pack a lot of faszinating technology. So, taking the typical Apple pricing into consideration, I do not think they are especially expensive. Of course, all depends on how good they actually sound.

</comment></comment><comment><USER150> Absolutely amazing HN thread, 1711 comment as of now and less then 10 are on A10 SoC?

It is truly a astonishing, how they manage to use the same TSMC 16nm, and get 40% single core performance increase. The rumors is the same SoC core from A9 but 40% higher clock speed from 1.8Ghz to 2.6Ghz, while keeping the same thermal envelop.

Some people were wondering if these Smartphone CPU can easily scale up the clockspeed. Turns out it can. And the performance could now exceed the baseline performance of Macbook.

i.e, Apart from compatibility reason, there is no longer a case for Apple to continue and use Intel CPU. A Quad Core A10 may even outrun the current Macbook Pro given the similar TDP.

</comment><comment><USER151> I do hope that this will push Bluetooth technology forwards - on my android devices bluetooth audio sound-quality is poor and skips when you launch resource-intensive applications. Also, the UI for syncing and selecting bluetooth devices is generally mediocre and confusing.

<comment><USER104> I have no such issues with my Bluetooth headphones on Cyanogenmod.

</comment></comment><comment><USER152> Will the AirPods be acceptable for use while on airline flights since airlines prohibit the use of WiFi devices?

</comment><comment><USER153> Question: besides a cool accessory (airpods), and a weird double camera thing, what's really pushing forward here?

Galaxies have been splash proof for some generations, and Bluetooth phones aren't new (only the design of this one seems to beat everything else).

Other than that, only traditional Moores Law advancements, like, more battery, more RAM, more processing power. None of these are enabling techs, in that they don't enable you to do anything that you can't with older devices.

So, I guess, update when the old one gives up the ghost?

</comment><comment><USER154> RIP scroll. What a nasty web page.

It also looks really plastic-y in those renderings.

</comment><comment><USER127> It's hard to know without it in my hands how big of a deal the stereo camera is going to be. The fact that it wasn't designed for depth (at least publicly stated) makes it a little unnerving - for example having to compensate for two separate focal lengths to get good parallax is going to be a pain. However we built our SLAM around taking on dual cameras IF they happened to show up so we should be ok with some parameter changes on each input.

Anyway, AR is about to explode.

<comment><USER155> Don't count on it. Most people aren't interested in AR. And even when you mention it most people will tell you they'd "rather just use it like normal" (ie. no AR)

If you're talking about groundbreaking mixed reality, like the HoloLens or Magic Leap then maybe. Microsoft is doing the right thing by first marketing to business. The consumer tech isn't ready, and won't be for probably 5-10 years (to be at a place where it won't require any overhead.)

<comment><USER127> Most people don't know what they're interested in and consumers are starting to actually take hold of AR. Ever seen Snapchat filters? Yep those are 3D tracking with depth. Not fiducial AR or just non tracked "overlay" so it counts. It's steps toward HMD AR by showing people what is possible to do to changing the real world dynamically.

Having hardware that can do depth at scale with an application layer is a big step - not sure that the 7 plus gets there but it's a start.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER156> I'll give them credit for going deeper into features in he new phones. I question whether people will think to use them if they go into their phone for a specific task.

<comment><USER157> >I question whether people will think to use them if they go into their phone for a specific task.

IMO, they will not. I know 8-10 people with 6S/6S+ iPhones and _none_ of those people use force touch.

</comment></comment><comment><USER158> everyone: "This does not perfectly fit my current unique use case, so damn it to hell"

<comment><USER106> Perhaps you could give us _anyone_ use case where removing the headphone jack suits them...

</comment></comment><comment><USER159> Honest question - Aren't IPhones already pretty water resistant?

Unless getting dunked in water, I haven't heard of anyone having any issues with water damaging their IPhone.

<comment><USER160> iPhones are currently 'splash resistant'. Now they're 'swim resistant'. They are now up to the IP67 standards.

<comment><USER129> The new watches are swim resistant. The phones aren't.

<comment><USER160> Ah, thank you. I got that confused.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER161> Yawn.

Here's an ad for the 1957 Chevrolet Bel-Aire. (Available "with two four-barrel carburetors!" Two-tone paint! Tailfins!) There's about as much difference between the new IPhone and the N-1 model as there was between the 1956 and 1957 Chevys.

[1] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-HelvOG5RE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-HelvOG5RE)

</comment><comment><USER162> I'm most concerned about voice quality. Any indication that there are more or better quality microphones.

Also, I'm concerned about the LTE: on the Verizon network it sounds like they're using the same modem as the Galaxy S7. [https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon/modems/x12](https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon/modems/x12)

Is that correct?

</comment><comment><USER163> How am I not going to loose those two tiny little earbuds?

<comment><USER164> Worse yet, _one_ of them.

<comment><USER165> I wonder if you'll be able to buy just one, or if you'll have to buy a whole new pair.

<comment><USER166> App idea #76578 – finding people with a spare earbud to sell.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER167> I won't be buying the new iPhone but I thinks removing the headphone jack seems like an extremely small problem.

The main issue seems to be that you now can't charge and listen to music at the same time. How often do you actually do that? In the past 5 years I have probably done that once.

For those of you who do think it is an inconvenience, I bet there will be a product on the market in 2 weeks that eliminates this problem.

<comment><USER168> > You can't charge and listen to music at the same time. How often do you > actually do that?

My two use cases that I expect are pretty common:

1\. In the car, plugged in to charge since using GPS navigation drains the battery very fast, and car audio input is AUX only.

2\. Phone on the nightstand, plugged to overnight charge and I go to sleep listening to podcasts or music on headphones to avoid disturbing my partner. I can dozily remove my headphones, but I can't switch cables without waking up.

I agree that there will be aftermarket products to solve it. Just makes the thing more expensive for me, so less likely to buy.

<comment><USER106> > You can't charge and listen to music at the same time. How often do you > actually do that?

Lots of times. Me and anyone that takes medium to long trips in their cars and and uses GPS navigation while charging and listening to music like basically all people that use smartphone do.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER169> I buy a new iPhone every year. I think phone utilization is so high that around $1 a day is nothing for it.

Compare it with cars clothes and other things

<comment><USER170> Where are you getting a $365 iPhone from?

<comment><USER171> $32/month for the unlocked iPhone every year program from Apple is $384/year, close to $1/day.

<comment><USER172> Does it mean you're just renting the phone?

<comment><USER173> Not really; after 2 years you're done paying for it, and it's yours.

<comment><USER174> It's actually a pretty good deal. It costs a little bit more than buying the phone outright on day 1, but you get to pay over time.

If you trade in after only one year, you basically paid a dollar a day to rent the phone. But if you had bought one outright and sold it at the end of the year in order to buy the new model, you would not be a whole lot better off -- and you might have had to deal with potentially scummy eBay or Craigslist buyers.

<comment><USER173> > It costs a little bit more than buying the phone outright on day 1, but you > get to pay over time.

And the cost difference is the same as the cost for Apple Care, which is included. So if you were going to sign up for that (which I have to do) you're already breaking even.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER175> I want a combination wallet+airpod dock+phone battery case. Wallet, airpod dock, retractable lightning connector (to charge iPhone), retractable usb cable (to charge battery). Battery doesn't need to be huge, just enough to get you another 20% or so phone charge -- and I imagine that would be enough battery for a whole lot of airpod recharges.

</comment><comment><USER66> The new "collapse subthread" HN feature was very useful for hiding 600+ messages in the headphone jack subthread.

</comment><comment><USER176> I wish people would care for the environment more and keep their phones and devices for longer.

Even the packaging mostly ends up in landfill. There is something unhealthy about "shiny new toys" released every year that we must have according to the media's frenzy of Apple advertising.

</comment><comment><USER177> I can't believe that even the newest Beats 3 Solo Wireless have Micro-USB charging. Talk about Apple not knowing what their product charging/connection strategy is! (Lightning for AirPods, but Micro-USB for Beats, Lightning for everything else, from Apple Pencil charging to Apple Mouse)

</comment><comment><USER178> Does anybody have any technical details on these headphones?

Are they Bluetooth or not? Or is it the usual proprietary crap?

<comment><USER141> Bluetooth. Explicitly listed here:

[http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMEF2AM/A/airpods](http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMEF2AM/A/airpods)

</comment></comment><comment><USER179> One major thing I haven't seen anyone mention about replacing wired headphones with wireless is that as far as I know, you're not supposed to use wireless headphones on a plane. I don't think you'd actually get hassled by a flight attendant but who knows.

<comment><USER41> I've flown over the Atlantic a few times this year, and can confirm that listening via bluetooth was permitted.

</comment></comment><comment><USER180> Wouldn't the AirPods will be very easy to lose? What if they drop-off while snoozing. I mean with wired headphones, even if they come out of the ear (say while sleeping on a long travel) they are still attached to the phone and hence cannot lose them.

</comment><comment><USER85> The TMobile/Google G1 I had used to have no headphone jack and relied on an adapter. It was really annoying.

One point about the stereo speakers is that you'd need to put your face/nose right next to the phone to appreciate the stereo, surely?

</comment><comment><USER181> This comment will probably drown in the deluge, but it'll be interested to see if there market for higher quality Bluetooth DACs just got cracked open a bit. I use a Soundblaster E5 myself; this thing is great.

</comment><comment><USER182> Confused about what earphones come with the iPhone 7. The standard analog ones (since an adapter is included)? Feels very backwards... unless I'm missing something...

Also, no new MBP is very disappointing.

<comment><USER81> Digital wired headphones come with it. There is an adapter for analog.

<comment><USER183> The headphones are digital? What does that mean?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER110> Let me say it simply, contrary to many others.. I am buying one.

</comment><comment><USER184> I feel like I can't buy this unless Apple pays its EU-enforced Irish tax bill. We give them money but the vast majority of it never goes back into the economy.

[Edited for technical correctness]

<comment><USER185> It's an Irish tax bill decided by the EU. Think about that. Starting to think Brexit wasn't such a bad idea after all.

Also, spending money puts it back in the economy, and Apple spends plenty. Taxes are probably the worst way for money to cycle through from an efficiency standpoint.

All that said, they should obviously pay what they legitimately owe.

<comment><USER186> It's an Irish tax bill decided by Ireland, but not enforced for Apple and probably some other big companies. That's what the EU complaint is about: Unfair state subsidies to Apple, the most anti-capitalist thing ever - people's taxes are used to subsidise Apple. Let that sink in.

If you are still trying to justify Brexit's shitshow you're doing it wrong.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER187> The lack of the headphone doesn't bother me. I am excited to see what the future holds for digital audio out. I don't care for the airpods though.

</comment><comment><USER188> Genius move by apple. Nothing said 'I'm cool' like the white headphone cables, same effect with new wireless Airpods

</comment><comment><USER189> The biggest drawback, maybe the only drawback of this new iPhone, is that you can't use the EarPods while charging.

(Edited for clarity)

</comment><comment><USER190> Interesting, the Unlocked option isn't available on the Apple Store right now. Temporary quirk until preorders?

<comment><USER191> IIRC, with the 6 the unlocked model wasn't available for a couple months but the 6S was available immediately. It was enough that I didn't bother with the 6 because by the time it was available and in stock it was close enough to wait until September.

<comment><USER190> What do you'll do if you spend a significant amount of time overseas?

<comment><USER191> Sorry, I think my previous message might have been insufficiently clear: I waited until I could buy an unlocked 6S. Foreign travel was exactly why: last time we were in Iceland, where AT&T didn't even have a service partner but also refused to unlock a long out of contract phone until I escalated. When we dropped them, I didn't want to risk repeating the process.

<comment><USER92> That's incredibly stupid, I called T-Mobile and my iPhone 6+ was unlocked the next day two months after I started EIP payments on it (did this so I could pop my work-issued Verizon SIM into it while traveling on a business trip, I don't like bringing two phones but I wasn't going to burn through my personal data with tethering since there's always inevitably a fire I have to deal with while traveling).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER192> what would be interesting for the iphone 7 plus would be to use the telephoto camera for a picture, and use the information from the wide-angle camera to improve the noise reduction in low light, I wonder if Apple is going to also do this (besides using it for bokeh)

<comment><USER193> Image manipulation isn't my thing, but I would think it would have to be the other way round. You're at 2X telephoto so each of those pixels is four of the wide angle pixels in terms of detail now.

</comment></comment><comment><USER194> If there's so much courage, they should remove them jacks from their macbooks also ;)

</comment><comment><USER195> And destroying the headphone market with yet another incompatible plug. Count me out.

</comment><comment><USER196> They claim the plus as "optical zoom" and talk about a 2x factor. Do they mean it can switch between a wide and tele focal length? That isn't "zoom" (at least not in the normal sense) - it's just two focal lengths with a switch. Did I understand the feature correctly?

<comment><USER197> > it's just two focal lengths with a switch.

Which is what zoom is. Only that in a normal zoom, the 'switch' is a slider.

<comment><USER196> Nah, I wouldn't say a drop in teleconverter in a lens makes it a zoom lens, the zoom bit is the continuous movement between focal lengths.

I suppose even with just two focal lengths, the focal length can be "varied" which is the normal definition of zoom, but I have never heard the term used that way.

<comment><USER197> My point is the difference is a difference of terminology not in functionality. A zoom system is one that can achieve multiple focal lengths with the same setup, and in that sense the iPhone 7 plus has a 'discrete' zoom, just like for example, microscopes, or telescopes with different magnifications, or leica's tri-Elmar lenses. (Leica doesn't call them zooms because in the world of Leica primes are the standard, but I don't see why you wouldn't.)

If you define zoom as the physical action of sliding a piece of glass to achieve different focal lengths in a lens, then a digital zoom, by that definition is also not a zoom.

Now, the iPhone is not using a teleconverter, which is something that is added to the lens, but a different lens plus sensor alltogether to create the effect of a zoomed image. And this is the point where the old definitions break down; is a camera the sensor or is a camera the device that creates the picture? I think it is the latter, and in that sense I think iPhone 7 plus does have a 'discrete' zoom.

<comment><USER196> I agree it's only a matter of terminology - just like Teslas "Autopilot".

"Optical zoom" has always meant _continuously variable optical focal length_. That doesn't mean there is a clear definition, but there is room for confusion using it in this context.

In binoculars there is quite a difference between "dual magnification binoculars" with a switch, and "zoom binoculars" which allow for continuous change.

I'd be completely happy with the use of "2x discrete optical zoom" here - <USER3> removes all confusion.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER198> To all: it's Lightning [R], not lightening. Go ahead. Call me a nitpicker.

<comment><USER89> Thank you. Lightening is:

Noun:

A drop in the level of the uterus during the last weeks of pregnancy as the head of the fetus engages in the pelvis.

Verb:

[1] To make or become lighter in weight, pressure or sensitivity.

[2] To make or become more cheerful or less serious.

[3] To make or become lighter or brighter.

[4] To emit flashes of lightning; flash with lightning. (rare)

None of these things is similar to charging your iPhone.

</comment></comment><comment><USER199> What about the mic for voice calls?

</comment><comment><USER200> i don't take pictures or live a gregarious life of the people in the promo.

</comment><comment><USER201> I suppose the iPhone7 is nice if you like being told what you need by the largest corporation on the planet.

<comment><USER202> > if you like being told what you need

I never understood this. Any product you buy is a series of compromises made by the manufacturer.

</comment></comment><comment><USER203> Does anyone know more about the cameras on the Plus? Are they synchronized via hardware?

</comment><comment><USER204> I look forward to measuring graphics performance in FMPF (Flying Monkeys Per Frame)

</comment><comment><USER205> So disappointing they just decided to ignore "touch disease". Bad form.

<comment><USER16> Yes, because every company introduces new flagman by talking about some diseases. That's a good form.

<comment><USER205> I should have been clearer. I really expected them to announce a free repair for anyone suffering from the issue, not to keep ignoring it like they have so far, even when the problem is obviously effecting many customers.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER206> I wonder if the 2 cameras can be used as a stereo camera for augmented reality.

</comment><comment><USER207> No headphone jack, and it still breaks when you drop it. Not worth it.

<comment><USER121> Succinct.

At least the toilet drop is okay now.

</comment></comment><comment><USER208> No 3.5" floppy drive on the iPhone 7? What is Apple thinking?

</comment><comment><USER209> Looks like they silently killed off the 64GB version :(

</comment><comment><USER210> bet they bring back the jack in iphone 8

<comment><USER211> I doubt it, actually. They have a history[1] of removing ports and features which seem unbelievable at the time, and then pushing forward with that decision, however unpopular.

1: Floppy drives, optical drives, MacBook Air ports, etc

</comment></comment><comment><USER212> …

</comment><comment><USER213> Those won't get lost...

</comment><comment><USER214> Mehhhh... Who cares?

</comment><comment><USER215> Still no MacBook. What a shame.

<comment><USER216> Agreed, but the event isn't over yet I think.

I've been looking for over a year for a good (build quality) laptop which can run a unix-like environment. And I always end up circling back to macbooks, which have been comprised of very old hardware for quite some time now.

Hard to justify spending so much money for a 3/4 year old CPU.

The alternative is to have a machine that requires more maintenance than my 5/6 year old thinkpad running OpenBSD.

<comment><USER61> From MacRumors live stream:

11:59 am For those joining in late, there have been no announcements about the MacBook Pro or other Macs as expected.

<comment><USER216> does that mean this is the end of the event?

EDIT: yeah, it's the end.. sadface

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER217> Steve jobs is dead. It shows.

</comment><comment><USER218> Removed audio jack and still not waterproof.

<comment><USER193> I doubt ANY smartphone is waterproof.

The new iPhone 7, however _is_ water _resistant_[0].

[0] Which is what you probably mean.

<comment><USER219> Mine is. IP something something. Can shoot photos under water.

Just because iPhone isn't doesn't mean no other can be ;-)

<comment><USER193> I believe IP ratings are for "resistance" (for a certain depth/period of time). Water "proof" means completely impervious to water, period.

I don't believe any phone is water proof.

<comment><USER220> [http://www.sonymobile.com/global- en/products/phones/xperia-m...](http://www.sonymobile.com/global- en/products/phones/xperia-m2-aqua/)

<comment><USER221> There's a pretty good writeup of the IP ratings, how to interpret them, and how they compare with other phones here:

[http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/138727-apple- iphone-7-and-7-...](http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/138727-apple- iphone-7-and-7-plus-are-ip67-water-and-dust-resistant-what-does-that-mean)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER222> No audio jack - no iPhone 7 for me.

End of discussion.

</comment><comment><USER223> You know I was annoyed the audio port being missing but after seeing the new airpods, I'm sold. They look amazing, and will be fantastic to use in the gym. I'm sold. Take my money!

<comment><USER224> Even $160?

<comment><USER223> Yeah no, I won't pay $160. I thought they would be $40 at most. That's ridiculous.

<comment><USER225> There are decent $40 bluetooth sport headphones on Amazon.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER226> the price for heaven's sake... it's me or every year the new model gets almost 100 bucks more expensive the the previous one. We can expect a base price of 1000€ in 5 or 6 years.

<comment><USER227> Or almost now

$969 for premium specs.

[http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-7/5.5-inch- displ...](http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-7/5.5-inch- display-256gb-jet-black-att#01,10,30,41)

<comment><USER228> +taxes and apple care and it's over 1K

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER229> I wonder why they removed the 3d touch? edit: I just saw the video...its still there. Looks like it is a default feature now. My bad.

<comment><USER29> Where did you hear that?

<comment><USER229> I dont see them mention it. The iPhone 6s tech spec has "Retina HD display with 3D Touch" mentioned.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER230> So it's water resistant but not water proof... It has 2 cameras like other Android phones had years ago. Basically same everything but with a Mario app and no headphone jack? Do you think Steve Jobs would have approved of this to hit retail?

</comment><comment><USER231> It's official, Apple is basically resorting to nickle and diming their customers, except instead of nickles and dimes, it's $160 to achieve very basic functionality in order to achieve something that virtually nobody really honestly cares about. All that's been achieved is that Apple has now created/affirmed a new non-optional secondary market that they're now positioned to best sell into (Beats). There's not even the decency to see if people care about a thinner phone by offering both a thin model without a jack and a thicker phone with one (for some strategically important price differential).

But honestly, complaints and analysis don't matter, people will line up to buy this garbage and to make it worse it'll become a stupid trend that will bleed over into Android-land and now instead of the perfectly fine $10 headphones I picked up at Big Lots, I'll have to shell out 10x that so I can listen to a podcast on my way to work.

 _edit_ and they don't even have the respect for their customers to ship their stupid buds on time with the product that requires them...so that their customers can look like bluetooth douchebags from both sides.

<comment><USER144> > _except instead of nickles and dimes, it 's $160 to achieve very basic > functionality_

The size, performance, battery life and construction of the wireless earpods are anything but "basic". In fact, most run-of-the-mill competitors are at the same price or more for wireless earbuds.

> _There 's not even the decency to see if people care about a thinner phone > by offering both a thin model without a jack and a thicker phone with one > (for some strategically important price differential)._

The "decency" of not having a focus and vision as a company, and throwing stuff out to see what sticks?

> _All that 's been achieved is that Apple has now created/affirmed a new non- > optional secondary market_

You know you can use all other brands of wireless (and wired with either the adapter or with lighting) headphones, including all your older headphones, right?

> _But honestly, complaints and analysis don 't matter, people will line up to > buy this garbage_

So, people buy it, but it's still "garbage" because you say so?

> _and they don 't even have the respect for their customers to ship their > stupid buds on time with the product that requires them..._

The "respect" to magically fix the production slowdowns? Maybe ask the Chinese to whip and beat their workers more or over-clock the assembly line robots?

Or the "respect" to delay the release of the phone for 2+ weeks, so that those interested in those specific wireless buds (a small percentage of the overall iphone buyers) get them simultaneously with the phone?

Even the starting premise is wrong. Nothing "requires" them. You can use your old, non wireless buds, third party wireless buds, new non wireless headphones, and even third party Lighting headphones. Apple's new wireless earpods are just one option upon hundreds.

> _so that their customers can look like bluetooth douchebags from both > sides._

Maybe you have some anger issues, but Apple doesn't seem to be the real source...

<comment><USER231> coltea, I say this fairly nicely, having seen your posts many times here on HN, your posts are so consistently composed of Apple apologia as to be irrelevant to any discussion about the company or their products. You're kind of the poor man's John Gruber of HN.

I don't mean this to be personal, but I've never seen you post (and I just searched back comments on HN) anything even remotely critical of Apple, and most of your Apple related posts relate to you popping up to defend the company or "clarify" something that could be construed as negative to the company. If I didn't know better, I'd say that you worked for the company -- but you've claimed you don't a couple of times.

<comment><USER144> > _coltea, I say this fairly nicely, having seen your posts many times here on > HN, your posts are so consistently composed of Apple apologia as to be > irrelevant to any discussion about the company or their products._

Compared to posts that suppose that the iPhone is garbage and people are idiots to "line up to buy this garbage", or that those using bluetooth are "bluetooth douchebags"?Or that not having the earpods available on the same launch day but some weeks delayed shows lack of "decency"?

Yeah, my posts lack such subtleties.

> _If I didn 't know better, I'd say that you worked for the company -- but > you've claimed you don't a couple of times._

Yeah, I don't. I'm a (mostly) web backend developer, with side gigs in video production. I just happen to like their products and agree with most business decisions they make. Which, given that they are the richer company on earth with billions of sales, doesn't seem very outlier-ish.

I don't like some of their stuff (e.g. their mice before the Magic Mouse were crap, I'd prefer they kept the magsafe adapter in the new MBP, not particularly sold on lower-height keys on the new MacBook, Apple Music is a mess, etc), but I do like most of the hardware and OS. Been using it since 2003, and have had worked with SunOS (pre Solaris), HPUX, Windows, RedHat, SuSE, Debian and other OSes and flavors (still use Windows and Ubuntu personally, and Centos professionally).

I also don't like the trivial and complaint-for-complaint's sake arguments most people on the internet use. And judging from sales volumes, most people don't particularly care for them either.

But all of these are beside the point. Even if I were Cook himself or Gruber (which has a HN account actually and has commented 1-2 times IIRC), what matters is the arguments I put forward.

Maybe respond to those?</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Apple is the New Porsche 911 - <AUTHOR> http://www.baekdal.com/insights/apple-is-the-new-porsche-911/

<comment><USER2> Given the way its distinctive looks divide opinion, I'd say that the Thinkpad is the laptop equivalent of the 911.</comment>