Show HN: Userbase – Add user accounts and persistence to your static site - <AUTHOR> https://userbase.com/ <comment><USER2> From the FAQ:

 _What happens if a user forgets the password? Users should always keep a copy of their password in a safe place, such as a password manager. Since the encryption key needs to be decrypted by the user 's password, it is not possible to recover an account if the password gets lost._

I don't believe this is acceptable for a user authentication service. Password reset functionality must be present for this to be production ready.

<comment> j-berman Userbase dev here

Yes, this is a thorny issue.

We chose to offer a service that keeps user data end-to-end encrypted by default. With that choice comes this tradeoff. And it's a tradeoff similarly offered by practically every other end-to-end encrypted service I'm aware of.

That being said, we have plans to alleviate the weight of this tradeoff, and we've already written nearly all of the code. That code is pending a security review and further refinement.

The high level summary of it right now is: 1\. you as the developer can opt to keep the user's key stored in plaintext in local storage (via a single parameter passed to our signIn() method) 2\. if a user forgets their password, they can get a temporary password emailed to them, then use it to sign back in 3\. the user can then change their password normally

<comment><USER3> Cool project! I am also not fully convinced by one choice though.

If you're using the user password to decrypt the encryption key, why don't you simply derive the encryption key dinamically from the password each time the user logs in? I'm thinking of an algorithm that, given a string (the user's password), constructs a given key. Something like SHA-*, but more tailored to your use case.

In this way you wouldn't need to store the encryption key anywhere, as it's dinamically generated on demand.

As per the criticism on the user losing the password, I disagree with most comments. I think that if it's made very clear to the user why there is no recovery procedure, it can be a plus, but is has to be properly explained.

Anyways, to solve this, I'll throw my 2 cents. The recovery process could be done woth a local-based (no server) Q&A process. For example, when the user creates the password it is asked to provide three security questions, and the corresponding answers. Then the questions are stored locally and the answers are used to create an encryption key to encrypt the password, which is then stored locally. If the user forgets the password, it is asked the three questions and if the answers are correct the password is correctly displayed.

Now I know that many will tell me that storing the password in a database, even though encrypted, is a bad idea. But I'll respond that we are talking in this case of storing the encrypted password only locally. This means that to stole the password one would need phisical acces to the machine, and then it would need to crack the encryption. Which at this point makes this system much more secure than most SAAS that, while encrypting very well passwords server side, do allow (for obvious reasons) the user to stay logged in. So anyone with access to the machine can access all data without further work.

<comment><USER4> Why have a password at all? Just use webauthn if a device is available and skip the password completely (or give the user/dev a choice -- password sharing may make sense in a lot of contexts).

<comment> j-berman So long as we're able to get a strong static secret value from users, password or otherwise, that's all that matters. When we first looked into alternative auth mechanisms, it appeared that they did not provide us a value like that, but will definitely be looking further into webauth to explore this possibility some more, thanks for the tip

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Wow, that's _exactly_ what I needed.

I see a lot of comments challenging the founder's choice on the trade-off "e2e encryption vs users losing their passwords", so I will explain my use case.

I am building a social network ([https://www.quidsentio.com](https://www.quidsentio.com)) with the idea of creating one that reduces the noisiness of current ones (that's why I am calling it a _" quiet social network"_) and also is more privacy-oriented.

I see privacy as freedom from being observed, and I am considering three dimensions: free from being observed by strangers (you only add real friends to your network), free from being observed by companies (no ads, no tracking), and free from being observed by thieves (prepared for data breaches).

That last point is the harder technical problem to solve and Userbase seems to solve it well. As privacy is a big part of what I am building, I consider the trade-off acceptable for my product. Of course, my copy and UX will have to be especially good to not frustrate users on that end.

Still, it is a hard decision to make for a product. But the recovery after lost password option that one of the founders mentioned in one of the comments below ([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22145878](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22145878)) was decisive, so now I am pretty sure I will add e2e to my product.

Other features that make it perfect for me:

\- It's a SaaS, which helps a lot a solo founder not having to build and maintain an authentication service

\- It's an API, fits well my serverless architecture (I am using Netlify hosting, Netlify Functions, and FaunaDB)

\- It's cheap (I am using now Netlify Identity, which is $99/month per 5,000 users after the free tier of 1,000)

So, thanks for your work, I will for sure be a happy customer, and I am more excited to make this bet that privacy is/will be something that matters for all people, not just worried developers

<comment> j-berman This is an awesome comment and makes me very happy. Though I'm not a founder, just the first employee :) Looking forward to seeing what you create with it!!

Thank you!

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> I took a cursory look at the crypto on the backend, and it was mildly concerning. It appears to not be using modern asymmetric primitives. At first glance, it's not insecure or anything... just old[0].

Rather than using something like libsodium's public-key box API, which is wonderful, it's using a 2048-bit Diffie-Hellman Prime group. This isn't really great. You should definitely upgrade to more modern primitives. I can highly suggest libsodium as a drop-in replacement.

The other thing about this that's more concerning is that I have no idea if there is any validation going on to prevent small subgroup confinement attacks on this, but I don't really want to spend anymore free time checking this out and I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader/author.

Personally, I wouldn't use this product until a few cryptography design decisions were changed. If you're marketing this as a privacy-centric product, there's a lot of work to be done--not just on the Diffie-Hellman usage.

0\. [https://github.com/encrypted- dev/userbase/blob/master/src/us...](https://github.com/encrypted- dev/userbase/blob/master/src/userbase-server/crypto/diffieHellman.js)

<comment><USER7> Old isn't a valid critique with crypto; 2048-bit DH is verifiably secure.

<comment><USER6> Old is entirely a valid critique of crypto; it demonstrates the authors aren't familiar with modern privacy tooling which tells me a lot.

<comment> j-berman We looked at libsodium and its choices impacted our discussions on our system. We decided not to use it because it's not compatible with many browsers [0]

We also discussed using a modern asymmetric key algorithm. We decided on Diffie-Hellman because we were extremely confident it's secure (so long as we choose the right parameters and implement it correctly), and would be very simple to fit it into our architecture.

[0] [https://github.com/jedisct1/libsodium.js/#compatibility](https://github.com/jedisct1/libsodium.js/#compatibility)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Cool, I've been looking for something like this! Everything about it gives me the right vibes.

If I build a prototype on this, and get some users - is there a path to migrate their accounts and data to a new backend in the future?

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you. Working on it. The next version is expected to have a feature to allow you to export all the data to your own self-hosted backend (without any downtime).

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Wow, this is fortuitous for me. I've been wanting something like this for quite some time, and was literally just thinking about it this morning. I've had a lot of ideas for certain small side projects that have ended up dead in the water, because I really didn't want to even risk being liable for the type of user data I would be storing.

This solution is perfect for an application that's targeting privacy focused users. I often don't sign up for services these days because I don't care for the possibility that the maintainer of the site is just casually reading through my data.

Some great use cases could be journaling, note taking, a private wiki, etc. For note taking, I actually use Standard Notes ([https://standardnotes.org/](https://standardnotes.org/)) precisely because of its end to end encryption.

For me the lack of password reset is a non issue (especially with modern password managers), something that I gladly trade for the peace of mind that some random developer with database access isn't reading through my private stuff. Obviously if you built something on top of this, you would need to properly educate your users on the tradeoff they're taking.

</comment><comment><USER10> Daniel has been tweeting his journey from Amazon employee to solo-preneur. It's been very fun to follow, I would recommend: [https://twitter.com/dvassallo](https://twitter.com/dvassallo)

</comment><comment><USER11> "The easiest way to get started is to create a free admin account..."

I'm surprised they don't use Userbase account for their own website.

</comment><comment><USER12> There's a protocol for this and it's called remoteStorage[0]. It has a JavaScript implementation that just works and different compatible servers, plus anyone can run its own.

[0]: [https://remotestorage.io/](https://remotestorage.io/)

</comment><comment><USER13> What are the differences between this product and Auth0? Why would a dev choose one over the other? Do they target different developers / stacks. Or are they both vying for the same thing?

<comment><AUTHOR> Main differences:

\- An end-to-end encrypted database.

\- Super simple SDK.

\- 100% open source, MIT licensed. Both the backend and SDK.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> The title is advertised as for static site, but If I wanted to build my "app" on top of Userbase, I'd love to pay for extra storage. (Keep the simple pricing, just add a separate storage plan)

EDIT :: Oh I just saw the Pro Plan plan in your tweet [https://twitter.com/dvassallo/status/1216612542052589569](https://twitter.com/dvassallo/status/1216612542052589569)

<comment><AUTHOR> Correct. Pro plan with unlimited metered storage, and support for collecting payments coming soon. (Targeting end of April).

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> I really like the model of open source SASS, I hope users will still pay as I plan my own open source SASS for video edition. I think it is the best compromise between my open source values and the basic requirement to make money in life.

</comment><comment><USER16> where do social logins like github and twitter rank in your list of priorities?

on a more meta level, since you're so open anyway, might want to look into public feature voting/roadmaps.

congrats on launching! you know i'm a fan of your work. I don't have a particular use for this product as is right now but gh and twitter logins would actually change my calculus (haha i know this is the annoying user stereotype of "i wont use this unless i have x")

</comment><comment><USER17> Congrats on shipping. The site looks slick and loads fast. What made you choose the MIT license for your product over other licenses?

<comment><AUTHOR> Wanted it to be open, no strings attached. The business comes from providing high-quality hosting and (eventually) pro services (support for accepting payments, etc).

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> congratulations on the launch! are there any checks done on the backend to guarantee that the website using the "init(appId)" call is the right one? The attack vector here is a fake website - say "userbose dot com" \- where the login would be validated by the backend and can now access all data for that user.

<comment><AUTHOR> Adding origin whitelisting is on the roadmap. We're working on 2FA to prevent phishing.

And thank you!

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> Congrats! This looks like a really nice service. Thanks for making this!

I am not a front-end preson, but I run a static Jekyll blog hosted on GitHub. I don't want to miss the zero maintenance (!) ease of deployment and network- performance of the GitHub CDN, but I have been missing some dynamic features. Most notably:

1\. A view counter per page

2\. Comments

3\. Signup for Newsletter Form

Since the GDPR landed, I have removed my Google Analytics and Disqus plugins. And I am happy with that. No reason to leak PII to third parties, that I can't trust anymore.

Is that a use case you want to be supporting on your platform? Looks like, this should not be hard to build with your SDK.

Best regards, Heinrich

<comment> j-berman If I'm understanding correctly, just like u/guu said, each of these features would require sharing data between users of your app. We're currently working on getting data sharing shipped! But for right now, it can only be used for a single user to store their own data.

<comment><USER19> gotcha! Thx.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> I guess this is similar to Parse or Firebase?

<comment><AUTHOR> It is. Main differences:

\- User data is end-to-end encrypted.

\- Super simple SDK.

\- Predictable pricing. (You won't need a cost calculator.)

\- 100% open source, MIT licensed.

<comment><USER21> FWIW the current pricing page shows only a starter plan that caps you to 1GB, with no info about what happens after 1GB. Predictable pricing is a good feature, but you don't have that yet.

Really cool otherwise, I may use this for something. Great work!

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you! — Addressed that in the FAQ: [https://userbase.com/docs/faq/#faq-7](https://userbase.com/docs/faq/#faq-7)

We're not metering storage yet, so nothing will happen right now. Soon we'll have another pricing plan with metered storage, and people who happen to be exceeding the limit will be given the choice to upgrade to unlimited metered storage (ala AWS).</comment></comment></comment></comment>


'Flakka,' the new killer drug, is spreading across the country - <AUTHOR> http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article31130234.html <comment><USER2> The drug warriors always like to have bogeymen lurking in the shadows.

A few years ago it was krokodil. Yet see [http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobsullum/2014/01/10/krokodil-...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobsullum/2014/01/10/krokodil- crock-how-rumors-of-a-flesh-eating-zombie-drug-swept-the-nation/) points out that it's a lot of hype, with no substance.

Or how 'bath salts' caused a man in New Jersey to kill a women, leading NJ lawmakers to ban the substance, only to later have a toxicology report be unable to find traces in the man's body: [http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/09/cranford_man_indict...](http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/09/cranford_man_indicted_for_murd.html)

Or warnings issued by our drug warriors about crack cocaine is immensely more addictive than regular cocaine, and requires much higher criminal penalties ... that just happen to disproportionately affect the black and poor. Yet as the opinion piece at [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp- dyn/content/article/2007/10...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp- dyn/content/article/2007/10/09/AR2007100900751.html) and others point out, "the 20-year-old crack laws are based on myths."

Going back even further, PCP in the 1970s was said to be this rage inducing drug, yet "Studies by the Drug Abuse Warning Network in the 1970s show that media reports of PCP-induced violence are greatly exaggerated and that incidents of violence are unusual and often limited to individuals with reputations for aggression regardless of drug use" and "reports of physical violence on phencyclidine have often been shown to be unfounded" (quotes from [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phencyclidine#Effects](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phencyclidine#Effects) ).

Or how marijuana was pushed as this horrible drug which was destroying the minds of Americans and "causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers and any others."

After nearly a century of lies, why should I believe this one is something to worry about?

<comment><USER3> I could not have written this better myself, but you did forget about the tidal wave of Heroin that was going to cause the US to fall apart in about 1970 - we paniced about PCP in the late 70s, "angel dust" was the name. Also, where are all the babies with lobster-claw hand birth defects that LSD was going to give us in the 70s, too?

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> This testimonial on erowid paints a terrifying picture: [https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=104449](https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=104449)

(Take with a grain of salt, as it were)</comment>


Ask HN:  Should I remove the level limit in the DropZap web demo? - <AUTHOR>

It seems risky to me because someone could just copy the javascript and I won't be able to put the level limit back in.  I could try some form of Javascript copy protection, but anything can be broken.
Moreover, people could just play DropZap in the iPhone/iPod touch web browser unless I explicitly prevent that from happening (which might upset Google).
It's not clear what I should do... <comment><USER2> The demo is long enough to get a feel for the game. Instead of removing the web demo limit I would focus on making an android version and improve the app on the iPhone by improving the aesthetic appeal of it. Hire a designer to make the app look better if you lack the skills. It is a fun app for sure but I was actually not going to give it much of a chance because the game looked less appealing than a popcap game or something like that. The initial reaction that I had was that if the developer did not spend much time on making the app look great then they probably didn't spend a whole lot of time on making it fun.

<comment><USER3> I agree, I would buy this game in a second for Android.

I also agree that the web design was a little off-putting at first and could benefit from a designer. Now that I've been playing the game though, the bad web design gives me kind of an insider feel, making me feel a little more connected to the game... you know, like how proud you feel recommending that little hole in the wall diner with the great Hippy Hash breakfast, compared to recommending the Denny's down the road, even if their breakfast is as good.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Some people (e.g. me) don't even have iPhones. Right now, you have no way for us to give you money. Perhaps a donate button could appear after playing a few levels, instead of the game ending?

<comment><USER5> My thoughts exactly. Make it a full web version for the people without iPhones.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Yes - use the web version to get people hopelessly addicted and as an advertising platform for the mobile version - removing the level cap won't stop people from buying the iPhone version, it just means you potentially get more and longer impressions on those iPhone version ads.

Rather than worrying about crippling your online version, work on improving the mobile version, give it features such as a global/friends high score table (people love to boast), prettier themes, invent some new modes.

You could even go as far as linking the two versions, perhaps if a user gets above a certain score threshold on the web version, pop up an alert with a code letting them unlock X (a new skin, etc.) if they buy the iPhone version in the next week. This should not only create an incentive to purchase, but create a sense of urgency - if someone's been wondering whether they should buy it, that will push them over the edge.

</comment><comment><USER7> 1) Make the web version dependent on an internet connection. So maybe like you receive the next piece from the server side. This way if someone wants to play inside the stalls of a bathroom deeply fortified within a building, they'll need to purchase your iPhone version. I wouldn't advise using your iPhone on the toilet though, I read a pamphlet that says long periods sitting, especially with your asshole exposed, leads to hemorrhoids.

2) Make the web version dependent on a mouse, or a keyboard. For example, use the mouse dragging to determine where the block above is. As far as I know you can only simulate mouse clicks on the iPhone. The keyboard takes up most of the screen. Use these to your advantage.

3) Redo the web version in flash.

4) Put ads on the web version and give it away for free. See how this does.

5) If all else fails, block the iPhone safari user string.

</comment><comment><USER8> It seems to me like you need to make the demo somehow not as good as the iphone version, but someone also giving you the same feeling. What about sprucing up the animation/graphics of the iphone version? Or create special features that are only available when you buy the game? That way, when you remove the level limit, players will get hooked on the demo and want to play more, and everywhere they go.

</comment><comment><USER9> So I played a couple rounds of the game just now to get a feel for it. Could you do a timed variant of the game? As in free play on level 1 for N amount of time?

 _EDIT_

 _Here's a link to the demo:_ <http://dropzap.appspot.com/>

<comment><AUTHOR> Could you elaborate? Why would this be better than the existing demo?

<comment><USER10> Like Bejeweled?

The Blitz version is good - one minute is enough to be addictive but leaves one unsatisfied. They've enhanced a few times to getting the complete Skinner Box effect going (I'm totally addicted to it anyway).

They also have the prize and collaboration elements encouraging ongoing participation and word-of-mouth advertising - if one plays every month a prize might be won; the more friends playing the better the prize.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> For the love of god don't remove it! I played for like 4 hours straight the other day and I can't afford to waste more time. I wish you had an Android app though, cause I'd buy it right now.

</comment><comment><USER12> No, the demo gives you enough to understand why you need to play more. I think you definitely don't need more levels there.

What problem are you trying to solve?

<comment><AUTHOR> If a lot more people play the web version on a regular basis, then this may result in more sales via word of mouth.

<comment><USER12> If you have a free version, then people will measure the cost (money) to the benefit (difference between free and pay versions). Right now we have to pay to 1) get more levels, and 2) have it on the iPhone. If you open up all levels then we lose incentive 1, and only have incentive 2. Same cost, less benefit.

Personally, I'd make the app (or website) more shiny. Get a designer (someone else said in your last thread), etc. Maybe have a 5-level demo iPhone version - I've seen that a few times.</comment></comment></comment>


What is the best web based rss reader? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> A lot of people recommend Feedly: [https://feedly.com](https://feedly.com)

That's certainly where a lot of the old Google Reader users jumped ship to.

<comment><USER2> Oh, and there's my own (rather rubbish) one at [http://www.weegeeks.com](http://www.weegeeks.com) ...

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> There's also Tiny Tiny RSS if you're into self-hosted applications: [https://tt-rss.org](https://tt-rss.org)

</comment><comment><USER4> I use and like Feedbin. I like to pay for products so know they'll keep working and be updated, and Feedbin is only $2/month

</comment><comment><USER5> Google Reader ? Oh, wait… :(

</comment><comment><USER6> Newsblur.</comment>


Origami Simulator - <AUTHOR> http://apps.amandaghassaei.com/OrigamiSimulator/ <comment><USER2> Absolutely lovely. I started folding when I was seven years old and the birdbase - the basis of the flapping bird and thousands of other models - eluded me for weeks because I couldn't fill the gaps between the two diagrams I had in front. Seeing it happen like this would have instantly unlocked that. Of course, it would have ruined the sense of satisfaction too, but hey. Cracking work.

</comment><comment><USER3> A couple more interesting projects at [http://www.amandaghassaei.com/](http://www.amandaghassaei.com/)

</comment><comment><USER4> Says my browser is not supported (Chrome Android) though I can see the app working behind the message (and interact with it).

<comment><USER5> Same with iOS safari. Perhaps there's some parts of it that don't work?

<comment><USER6> Safari is the worst browser currently available at a mass level.

It's been that way for years. I suppose it comes down to Apple's priorities, though I know they've intended to change that in the past year.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Also here's a video from Strange Loop 2017, "Origami Software from Scratch" by Robby Kraft:

[https://www.thestrangeloop.com/2017/origami-software-from- sc...](https://www.thestrangeloop.com/2017/origami-software-from-scratch.html)

</comment><comment><USER8> Some linguistic trivia: the word origami is a Japanese compound of "fold" (折り - ori) and "paper" (紙 - kami), literally translating to "fold paper" (折り紙 - origami).

<comment><USER9> More precisely, the verb is 折る (oru) and 折り (ori) is the continuative/noun form, 連用形 (ren'youkei), so it's "folding paper".

<comment><USER10> The parent comment pas paper as 'kami', yet the 'k' morphs into a 'g' in the final word. Is this common in Japanese? I've not seen it much outside of Welsh, my own mother tongue.

<comment><USER8> Interesting. Yes, it's common. If you're interested you can read about it on wikipedia[0] and a bit more in depth here[1].

[0]: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendaku](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendaku)

[1]: [http://linguistics.oxfordre.com/view/10.1093/acrefore/978019...](http://linguistics.oxfordre.com/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780199384655.001.0001/acrefore-9780199384655-e-280)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Is it just me or is it not animating correctly? It loads and I can pan/zoom around the sheet with the crease lines, but it doesn't actually animate the folds. I tried dragging the slider like the instructions say as well as trying interactive mode, but it doesn't do anything.

Still, I can guess what it is supposed to do and this is really neat.

<comment><USER12> dragging the slider all the way to the left takes you to -100% (which doesn't make a lot of sense because it looks complete, just inverted). Find 0% on the slider and do the manipulation from there

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Her entire website is full of impressive demos:

[http://www.amandaghassaei.com](http://www.amandaghassaei.com)

The work of a grad student who is unbelievably currently looking for work in the SF/Bay Area:

[http://www.amandaghassaei.com/about/](http://www.amandaghassaei.com/about/)

Programming Languages: C++ (embedded), Objective C/iOS, Python, JavaScript, Node, Java, MATLAB, Mathematica

I'd insta offer if she had C# experience, but I'm sure she'd love to hear from SF companies matching her interests and existing skill sets.

</comment><comment><USER14> I toggled the Allow User Interaction button and was able to click and drag a corner of the paper around, which was pretty neat.

But I found myself wanting to multi-touch the screen, to hold one edge while moving another. I felt as though the mouse/touchpad interactions we have available are far less expressive than holding and manipulating the paper with our bare hands.

</comment><comment><USER15> I have always seen origami as childsplay to learn spatial understanding. It turns our that folding science is applicable in many fields! Proteins, buildings, airplanes and many more objects found in nature and human designs apply origami in surprising ways. The most interesting one I found was flowers; how they fold out when starting to blossom.

<comment><USER11> Space too, NASA turned to origami to design folding panels for radiators on space ships. Makes sense if you think about it, they need to compact a large sheet into as little space as possible and in a way that it can be unfurled smoothly.

> [https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2017/nasa-s-new- > shape-s...](https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2017/nasa-s-new-shape- > shifting-radiator-inspired-by-origami)

It's also inspired some pretty deep mathematical theory in computational geometry, topology etc.

<comment><USER16> [http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/physics/origami- revolution.html](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/physics/origami-revolution.html)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> This is excellent. I'm taking a paper engineering class right now and will learn a lot from this. Thank you for making it.

<comment><USER16> Do you have a link to the class? This sounds really interesting.

<comment><USER17> Unfortunately I don't. The Professor isn't putting anything online.

He did recommend some online resources for us to use though.

There's this youtube channel:

[https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx2M2bGHtXBszG6tuR_NIbQ](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx2M2bGHtXBszG6tuR_NIbQ)

And this book:

[https://www.amazon.com/dp/0689822243/](https://www.amazon.com/dp/0689822243/)

I also have this book:

[https://www.amazon.com/Origami-Design-Secrets- Mathematical-M...](https://www.amazon.com/Origami-Design-Secrets-Mathematical- Methods/dp/1568814364/)

But find it to be very difficult. Not for beginners by any means.

That should help get you started.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> This is brilliant. Absolutely. Already sent on to my origami mad sister. The only thing I wish it did was tell you what example file you loaded, if you are forgetful and have to go hunting around for it again just because you forgot the name then that makes it harder to recommend what model example to open first.

Last time I made some origami was actually for a card for my Japanese neighbour, for this I used paper with a design on and made regular cranes. This project could be monetizable if you could buy paper designs and see how said paper would work in the finished model. Plus what happens if you rotate the design or flip it over? This would be nice to preview so less prototypes have to be physically folded.

Although my origami efforts were received gratefully, I did wonder afterwards whether this was some type of cultural appropriation going on, would I give a French person homemade smelly cheese?

</comment><comment><USER19> Finding projects like this make me feel so so so happy for living in this century.

</comment><comment><USER20> Tried this in VR (via [https://www.supermedium.com/](https://www.supermedium.com/)) and was very impressed.

<comment><USER21> Nice! We've been demoing this one at YC dinners a lot. People always enjoy this one. Always funny to see people's reactions when their origami floats away, and we need to teach them how to reset it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> Origami was a subject of 2016 installment of ICFPC](http://icfpconference.org/contest.html">ICFPC). Many dozens of arbitrary-precision origami engines were written in those 72 hours.

</comment><comment><USER21> If you want to try it in VR, we are featuring it in Supermedium, a full VR browser, which makes Origami Simulator easy to access (click a link in VR). It's been one of the more popular VR sites to visit!

[https://supermedium.com/](https://supermedium.com/)

</comment><comment><USER23> Select "crane" and rotate to view the bottom. You'll see multiple planes passing through each other

</comment><comment><USER24> I tried doing something like this with Flash back in the day and fell on my ass pretty hard. Well done

</comment><comment><USER25> Thanks. I did old-school origami (step by step guides) back in high school and have been meaning to learn how the newer "crease pattern" based stuff works. This looks like it'd be a useful tool in that pursuit.

</comment><comment><USER26> This app does NOT like phones. It's like its furious at me for even trying. :)

</comment><comment><USER27> Beautiful job!!

I find immense pleasure in looking at 3d-structures like this. Sometimes I just close my eyes and try to visualize these, the task seems to be so complex for my brain that it really shuts off every other thought I have.

</comment><comment><USER28> Intersection of arts and physics is inspiring. Origami has been applied in various research ranging from nanobots to the shapes of the solar panels in space.

<comment><USER16> [http://bridgesmathart.org/](http://bridgesmathart.org/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> Is there software that turns an uploaded/created arbitrary 3D shape into 2D creases on a rectangular sheet needed to create it?

<comment><USER30> There are definitely algorithms for UV unwrapping of polygonal models onto texture maps, under various constraints. I'm sure you could persuade one of those to generate you a net from a 3D model.

Here's an instructible on it: [http://www.instructables.com/id/Design- Papercrafts-with-CAD-...](http://www.instructables.com/id/Design-Papercrafts- with-CAD-software/)

Edit: Software for doing what you want here: [http://www.tamasoft.co.jp/pepakura-en/](http://www.tamasoft.co.jp/pepakura- en/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> great project! would also be fun to have an editor and fold your own origami from a flat 2d plane, like an origami CAD engine :)</comment>


Disgruntled Ex-Googlers Rethink The Way Gmail Works, With Fluent.io - <AUTHOR> http://www.fastcodesign.com/1669305/disgruntled-ex-googlers-rethink-the-way-gmail-works-with-fluentio <comment><USER2> Funny to think that Wave actually did have smart things about it. Way too complicated though. This is better.</comment>


The Easiest Way to Succeed as an Entrepreneur - <AUTHOR> http://www.jamesaltucher.com/2011/04/the-easiest-way-to-succeed-as-an-entrepreneur/

<comment><USER2> Wow - Why is this not the number one article in HN?

WHY!!!????

Losing respect for HN.</comment>


Windows Azure Dance Routine - <AUTHOR> http://www.geekwire.com/2012/raunchy-windows-azure-dance-routine/ <comment><USER2> I dunno, I'm sure for some people there's a great crime against women hidden in there somewhere, but all I see is a great crime against good taste. I think something has to pass a certain muster of sophistication before it can be genuinely offensive. This isn't the doctrine of coverture, it's a penis scrawled near the entrance to the ladies' room.

What I really want to know is, is it so hard to get decent entertainment for a developer event? There must be a lot of performers and artists out there willing to provide a more interesting experience than "girls dancing to loud music". I don't think I've ever been to a developer event with a jazz band, or magicians, or a contortionist with "XSLT" stenciled on their leotard. Now that'd be worth watching.

One last note, did "I'm a software developer, I'm developing for the rest of my life" creep anyone else right the hell out?

<comment><USER3> Just to clarify: That atrocity wasn't organised by the conference, they'd just agreed to give Microsoft (their biggest sponsor) the stage for a bit to do their big Azure announcement. There's certainly a lesson for conference organisers in there about how much you let your sponsors get involved in the conference, but what happened on stage was still all Microsoft's fault.

Also just to clarify: As a woman who was actually present in the room when Microsoft decided to jump the shark, I don't feel especially offended by this (with the exception of the line about Lea Verou, which is beyond creepy). As a developer, though, I'm deeply offended that someone in Microsoft's marketing department could imagine we'd go for this kind of trash. That performance speaks volumes about the developer stereotypes sales people nurture, and that is especially offensive coming from a company like Microsoft, where you'd think company culture should perhaps lean a little more towards respecting the people who create the actual value the company thrives on.

<comment><USER4> Thank you for speaking up. Just as it's crucial that women not be silent when being excluded from tech, it's just as (if not more) imperative we hear that you're not feeling discriminated against. Especially when there is a rallying cry from men saying that you should be, or that we should hold Microsoft responsible for this great sexist faux pas.

This community is overcorrecting in a bad way and starting to identify sexism where it isn't. Usually, women don't correct this assumption. Please keep doing so. I hate that the definition of the word "sexist" is starting to evolve to mean "offensive".

<comment><USER5> _I hate that the definition of the word "sexist" is starting to evolve to mean "offensive"_

Sexism is always offensive.

<comment><USER6> Yes, but not all offensiveness is sexism. This, for example, offends me as a software developer, and as someone who appreciates the effort the real guys developing Azure are putting in to supporting node. I, however, do not get the sense of being discriminated against based upon my gender. All the women I know who've seen this video think it's incredibly lame, but not particularly sexist.

<comment><USER5> I do agree :-) but IMO, the video was sexist. The point being made by jsprinkles is that all forms of offensiveness appear to being called "sexist" - he said "I hate that the definition of the word 'sexist' is starting to evolve to mean 'offensive'." which is what I'm responding to!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I wonder if those playing the "it's cheesy but c'mon, it's not offensive" line have missed the 20+ discussions about sexism and how to foster a healthy environment for women in tech on HN over the last year.

The assumption that developers are men is enough here, and speakers at the conference mentioned in the song have expressed surprise and distaste at their inclusion. For example, they say _"Lea Verou will make your dreams come true"_ to which Lea noted: _"I think mine tops all of them in terms of cheesiness and creepiness."_

As much as it's tacky fun (much like that hack day note about having women serving beer [1] or the woman in her underwear promoting geek t-shirts [2]), it's also antagonistic, creepy, objectifies women, and reinforces an image that no-one wants or needs at a _programming conference_ if we want to appeal to a diverse audience. Sadly, people who brush this off as OK are part of the problem but will deny this until, well, they sober up later on (said as someone who felt the issue was unimportant a couple of years ago).

[1]: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3731229>

[2]: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3739913>

<comment><USER4> "Sexism" and "creepiness" are not synonyms of each other.

<comment><USER8> I'm not clear on what distinction you're actually trying to draw here.

The objectification of women (and creepy behavior as an extension of that) is inherently alienating and in almost all circumstances is sexist (just by virtue of the fact that there's not a lot of folks out there creeping both women _and_ men)

At the very least the two sets overlap heavily even if they are not synonymous.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Probably will get downvoted for this, but I didn't really think this was as vile as apparently everybody else does. Sure it's a bit cheesy and stupid, but the dancers seem to be wearing shorts and a full shirt (essentially standard dance attire) and not doing anything particularly suggestive. As to the lyrics, again stupid attempts at humor but not any worse than what you might see on an evening TV sitcom. Maybe I am just old..

<comment><USER7> That's forgetting context. On a sitcom, sure. What if it were at a funeral or as part of a job interview? It's similarly inappropriate at a programmers' conference where we should be avoiding activities and messages that reinforce male privilege. Don't believe me, believe women who have responded about it, e.g. <https://twitter.com/serendipitousP/status/211470656242589698>

<comment><USER10> > What if it were at a funeral

Ask and ye shall receive.

Strippers and other scantily clad dancers are not unheard of at country-side funerals in Taiwan.

[http://io9.com/5819625/in-taiwan-you-can-hire-a-stripper- for...](http://io9.com/5819625/in-taiwan-you-can-hire-a-stripper-for-your- funeral)

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYxOBoHHJ9M>

When I first came across this phenomenon years ago, I managed to find a thread on a mailing list (I think it was for East Asian studies) that included personal reports from researchers as well as some interesting suggestions about why they might do this. The consensus seemed to be that this was akin to how the Taiwanese might sacrifice a pack of the deceased's favorite cigarettes or a bottle of his favorite liquor at his funeral.

Such dance shows are also offered up as tribute to the deities at temple festivals. As bizarre as that is, I can't help but be amused by the thought of their gods appreciating a flagrant display of T&A. It sure turns the Hermetic motto "As above, so below" on its head, doesn't it?

> as part of a job interview

Taking a male job candidate to a strip club isn't unheard of in the US. In South Korea (and I presume other parts of East Asia), it's commonplace to go to hostess bars on the monthly hwaeshik outing with coworkers; sometimes they will continue the night at straight-up prostitution joints for sam cha. I wouldn't be surprised if job interviews were often conducted similarly to entice candidates. I know for a fact that Korean salespeople often seal deals by taking customers out for "entertainment".

To be clear, I'm not condoning any of these practices, just saying they're out there and probably more commonplace than you realize.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I had to rage-stop this video halfway through... this is ridiculous.

In this day and age, I would have thought that the developer community has come to realize that sexism is out and inclusiveness is in (no, adding a "(and vaginas)" is not inclusive). We had our fun, but it significantly damaged our culture and firmly planted our female participation at 15-20%, with a female OSS contribution rate of 1.5-5%. We (I'm speaking to the straight, white males out there) are the main reason for this.

And it's not just females, either. Our frequent raunchy behavior typically focuses on heteronormative jokes, staying completely ignorant and offensive to the LGBTQ folks out there.

So here's the deal, Microsoft: you have some work to do. First, you do something about this, like fire the decision-makers involved (publicly or privately, your choice). Next, issue a real apology that goes well beyond "we're looking into this." Then, grab a crapton of money—say $3 million... $1 million for each minute of the song—and donate it to programmer-centric inclusive groups. Speaking as primarily a Rails dev, my brainstorming is biased, but here's a good list to get started: Rails Bridge, Girl Develop It, DevChix, etc. Make certain that there's no way to tie this large donation to furthering Microsoft-specific causes; you need to heal dev community at large that you just brutally damaged.

I understand this "skit" probably didn't come from Redmond, but that's the price you pay for growing to the size of Microsoft. Microsoft Redmond hired/approved the folks running the branch that did this skit. Letting Redmond skate by on this is like (and wow, I'm going to use a totally unfair comparison here... apologies) letting a mob boss off the hook because a lieutenant actually planned & performed a criminal act.

What a depressing state of affairs.

<comment><USER12> > I would have thought that the developer community has come to realize that > sexism is out

I was there to see how it worked out. The developer community reacted negatively to this.

During the show, a lot of people backed away to hide in the corners of the conference room. There was loud boo-ing throughout and after the dance. Critical tweets were being tweeted and retweeted.

The community is _OK_. Microsoft's marketing department are tasteless hamfisted twats.

Some of their earlier Cloud marketing: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q1UgUw-4AY>

<comment><USER11> Sorry, I wasn't lambasting the community at large... I was directing my anger at the fact that Microsoft is insulated enough from the dev community that they haven't picked up on this.

<comment><USER12> Yes. Even knowing Microsoft's general marketing clumsiness, it's very impressive how out of touch they can manage to be.

Also, when they were referencing the speakers, "Lea Verou will make your dreams come true" might have looked good on paper, but in this context it was just unbearably creepy. Totally agree they need to donate some millions to inclusive causes to make up for this.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I was just at the Berlin Buzzwords conference last week. Microsoft Azure was a platinum sponsor, and hired two 20-something girls dressed in skin-tight silver jumpsuits. They walked around handing out bags of Gummy Bears with flyers for Azure. Nobody was impressed, and the whole idea as kind of ridiculous. Given the level of maturity at that conference, it was completely out of place. It does not surprise me there was nearly zero activity at their conference booth.

<comment><USER14> I had the same feeling at the BBuzz. I like gummy bears and all, but this is not how you win over developers. Nobody was paying any attention to those women and nobody was paying any attention to Azure.

I'm hopeful that sexism will eventually fade out in the community.

Microsoft, GoDaddy and others, please find another way to advertise your products.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Those taking offense are on too much of a hair-trigger.

Take it in context:

• This is in Norway, a very gender-egalitarian place (but also more open to sexual topics). They have the confidence to understand – and shrug off – things that are meant as goofy jokes, even if, when forwarded to a different context for the specific purpose of triggering a reaction, some can then find offense.

• The music is definitely in the style of the (big-in-northern-Europe) band 'Scooter'. (A commenter at Geeklist implies it _is_ Scooter, I think it's just in their style.) That style is over-the-top, self-parodying. (See for example the music video <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KL5bw6Mbho> which mixes the lyrics of a campy 1979 european disco hit, acid-trip religious imagery, topless revelers, rapper braggadocio, a cryptic shout-out to art/music- pranksters _The KLF_ , and a key quote from Antoine de Saint-Exupéry's _The Little Prince_. Yes, _The Little Prince_!) No one familiar with the style would take any word of it more seriously than a Stephen Colbert monologue. (When Colbert in character says something 'offensive', is it really 'offensive'?)

• Even so, I've watched it twice and can't find any implication that all developers are male. The lead voice in the song is male (and speaks the 'penis' line about himself) but the chorus auto-tuned voice is vaguely feminine and the dancers seem to represent 'developers' and are (mostly?) women.

• It's in a nightclub/danceclub, kicking off the conference party. Almost certainly alcohol was being served. Topics wander a bit from the button-downed professional voice at such events... in fact that's the very reason to have such events. Crude jokes about body parts aren't for everyone, but they are likely to come up in nightclubs and in spoofy music lyrics. If they're not specifically denigrating anyone they're harmless and non-exclusionary.

<comment><USER3> My initial reaction when hearing the soundtrack (I was a conference attendee) was to walk over to the stage to see if that was really Scooter playing. The lyrics just didn't seem nearly as offensive as most people apparently find them in light of this clearly being either the actual Scooter or someone copying them - I'm assuming the latter, because the lyrics seem a bit too juvenile even for Scooter, but knowing the band and their typical over-the-top raver campiness certainly mitigated the offensiveness of the incident. It was still fantastically embarrasing to watch, but I didn't feel especially offended as a woman at a tech conference.

The stage, btw, was in the middle of the conference venue, and this performance kicked off the conference party, just after the talks had finished for the day. The atmosphere in the room as it was happening was mostly one of embarrassed disbelief that Microsoft's PR department had apparently stereotyped the lot of us as tasteless brogrammers - with the exception of a few already drunk brogrammers clearly enjoying themselves in front of the stage.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> Stunts like this must take a lot of people and a lot of time to set up. Here's my question: could someone explain exactly how this kind of stuff moves from idea to execution to performance without _anyone_ raising an enormous red flag?

<comment><USER17> if the someone with the idea has enough pull, (s)he probably simply shuts down any red flags with "it was my idea, do it now!"

<comment><USER18> Who are we kidding? It was definitely a 'he'.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> This reminds me of...Japanese karaoke. I feel sorry for Microsoft that this is going to be syndicated everywhere to the detriment of Azure, but it's probably funny in Norway. Is anyone on HN offended by this?

<comment><USER20> Not I, but then again, I'm almost impossible to offend. This just seemed more silly and out of place than anything else.

The 'zOMG SEXISM' drum is getting beaten especially hard recently.

<comment><USER21> This video just shows how necessary it is to beat that drum.

<comment><USER22> You can't beat the drum about social issues and culture.

You can beat the drum about something people don't know, a food drive, a political issue, etc but it makes no sense to keep whingin about something that people already know and have made up their minds about.

Remember House? People don't change.

<comment><USER20> >People don't change.

Sure they do. Last century it was okay to oppress women and blacks (and even keep the latter as slaves). Times, and people, can change radically.

That said, aside from mentioning the word "penis" in a frankly _stupid_ song, I fail to see how this is sexist. The term is going to lose all meaning if it keeps getting bandied about by such minutiae like this and the beer thing at the California convention.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> What's great is imagining yourself as the guy who has to come on and speak after such a glamorous intro.

I'd love to hear more about the awkward moment that ensued when the rep got on stage and started talking, if he tried to play it off like that whole thing _didn't_ just happen.

</comment><comment><USER23> So, this is the second story in about a month about crazy sexist stuff going on at industry events in Scandinavia. The Dell thing I thought was beyond the pale; but this seems to be in good fun.

What's up with Scandinavia?

<comment><USER24> This was Microsoft, not Scandinavia. Noone was impressed by what they did. Apart from this, it was a great conference.

<comment><USER25> It was most likely a scandinavian subsidiary of Microsoft.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> This truly is the new dancemonkeyboy.mpeg.

</comment><comment><USER27> Perhaps it's just me, but I'm a bit put-off whenever anyone references genitalia in a public setting. Whether there's dancing involved or not is somewhat immaterial.

I didn't take it as 'sexist' so much just 'wrong'. Perhaps things are just that different in Norway? I suspect not.

</comment><comment><USER28> If we exclude cultural differences, I think the most cringeworthy thing about this is its total misapprehension of the target audience. Of course, this includes assuming the entire crowd is male and loves nob gags; but if I was to have live music on for a bunch of developers, that is the _last_ thing I would think of.

Enduring that travesty would be totally analogous to hitting up one of the UK's many tacky nightclubs that host an 'electro-house' (read: trance) night every Friday and have the same monotonic 'MC' drawling all over the track.

Maybe it's fine in Norway and they love that sort of thing, but I think it'd be very difficult to reconcile the developer and trance scenes elsewhere.

</comment><comment><USER29> I'm actually bothered by the obvious ripoff of GLaDOS. I guess I just really like that character and the _intelligent_ creativity that went behind it. This is like going Weird Al on Valve without realizing it.

<comment><USER30> I don't think it's styled after GLaDOS, there's a few genres of music that include a high pitched voice like that. I would suggest that this song is actually just a happy hardcore song with new lyrics, listen to the band Scooter (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scooter_(band)>) and you'll see the similarities in the majority of their songs. The songs normally feature an announcement (with the "distant" sound) and then a high pitched voice.

I'm Lonely - Scooter <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYTTSIvePSY>

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> Think about this for a moment.

In some Microsoft Office, they must have had a meeting, went through the plan and said: "Yes, this is a good idea. This will get people interested in Azure. This is awesome".

</comment><comment><USER32> I'm just glad that we have Scott Guthrie in the keynote video at <http://www.meetwindowsazure.com/> instead of some of these girls.

</comment><comment><USER33> Developers, developers, developers, developers? PARTY PEOPLE IN THE HOUSE!

</comment><comment><USER34> lol. Morale of the story: do some research first!

</comment><comment><USER35>
        Sub dance(yourRightFoot)
            putIn(yourRightFoot)
            takeOut(yourRightFoot)
            putIn(yourRightFoot)
            shakeAllAbout(yourRightFoot)
            doTheHokeyPokey()
        End Sub

</comment><comment><USER36> Whoops.

In this day and age of ubiquitous cameraphones and Youtube, nobody is allowed to have fun or be brutally honest anymore. Too much risk of being recorded and then quoted out of context or scrutinized by Puritans.

<comment><USER14> What are they brutally honest about? That women aren't welcome in the IT community? And what kind of context are we missing here?</comment></comment>


Study: Mobile (And Particularly iPhone) Users Not Keen On Clicking Ads - <AUTHOR> http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/09/12/study-smartphone-particularly-iphone-users-less-likely-to-click-on-ads/

<comment><USER2> Is anyone really expecting mobile users to be a viable market for traditional internet advertising?

I would have thought it was a foregone conclusion that users were adverse to the standard click-through path on a small modal-use device.

</comment><comment><USER3> Doesn't this study just mean that _Chitika's_ ads are half as likely to be cliked on from mobile users? It's only one data point without controlling for the type of ad. I wouldn't want to generalize to all mobile users based on just this study. Anything else out there that observed similar results?

Certainly for a mobile site I won't be using Chitika; instead I'll try another network. The numbers are clear :)

<comment><USER4> I would think certain cases might have far higher click throughs in fact. For instance, if I'm searching for $FOOD near $LOCATION on my mobile phone, I would be incredibly likely to click an appropriate ad.

<comment><USER5> But they take you, the user, away from whatever it is you're actually doing. This is another case where the advertiser is going to have to see if their marketing message succeeds without the 'click through' to give them the warm and fuzzies.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Isn't this an instance of the more general observation that people click less on links when loading is relatively slower (less bandwidth) and click more on links when loading is relatively faster (more bandwidth)?

<comment><USER7> Mobile users may also use the web for shorter sessions on average than desktop users, so they don't have extra time to click on ads. The average mobile user may also be savvier than the average desktop user.

Both those points are pure speculation on my part; data to confirm or refute would be welcome.</comment></comment>


Cajuns Ask Minority Status [1988] - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/1988/05/23/us/cajuns-ask-minority-status.html <comment><USER2> Should have [1988] in title

</comment><comment><USER3> As a black person, I'm all for it. People from marginalized communities gotta stick together.

<comment><AUTHOR> As a Cajun, I was unaware of this, though I don't have an opinion one way or the other regarding minority status. Though as an adult I realize I know very little about Cajun history, and I did go to school in Louisiana. I grew up with the culture, food, and traditions but know little of our actual history, which I am now beginning to learn.</comment></comment>


New technique stores summer heat until it's needed in winter - <AUTHOR> http://newatlas.com/renewable-energy-heat-storage-empa/47334/ <comment><USER2> There is no need to store summer heat for the entire winter, which would necessitate a far larger capacity system.

One would only need to store solar thermal energy that is available on any sunny or partly sunny day for night time and cloudy days.

Where I live about half of all days produce abundant solar thermal energy even in the depth of winter. Calculating in night time, you end up with about 12.5% of total winter time having abundant free thermal energy.

So one would need to build a system of solar thermal collectors about 8 times the size one would need to heat a house on a sunny winter day, and that is not a very big system.

Space wise I think it would work for single family residential homes on .25 acre lots if the house was designed for it from the start.

<comment><USER3> Why not just store that solar energy as electricity, and use the electricity to power heat pumps when needed?

<comment><USER2> That is a good question and the answer comes down to physics and the economics of battery technology vs this technology.

<comment><USER4> It might be that one or the other is better "in general", but I can see that this technology could have benefits in certain scenarios, maybe long term storage in remote, cold climates.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> The opposite of saving winter ice for the summer was popular in the 1800s before mechanical refrigeration. Ice can last many months if insulated by sawdust below ground.

<comment><USER6> Princeton had an "ice pond"[1][2] in the early 80's. The project was run by Dr. Ted Taylor[3] (who worked on the Manhattan project and later the Orion spacecraft-- huge nuclear bomb-powered spaceships!). Snow machines made slushy ice that was stored in pond covered with insulation. Water was pumped through the pond in the summer to provide cooling. It worked well and at the end of the summer there was still ice in the pond.

I read about this as a kid reading Freeman Dyson's "Imagined Worlds"[4]. Dyson's commentary is definitely worth reading. (Anything written by Freeman Dyson is worth reading.)

A cheese factory used ice ponds[5] for about 10 years, eventually abandoning them because the ice didn't last through the summer and it was difficult to maintain[6].

[1]: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_pond](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_pond)

[2]: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1981/08/02/t...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1981/08/02/the- ice-pond-age-cometh/51396081-09a8-4afe-b69c-1217b4700408/)

[3]: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Taylor_(physicist)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Taylor_\(physicist\))

[4]: [https://books.google.com/books?id=MOC8UJPuvO8C&pg=PA42](https://books.google.com/books?id=MOC8UJPuvO8C&pg=PA42)

[5]: [http://www.nytimes.com/1984/06/03/nyregion/dairy- hoards-500-...](http://www.nytimes.com/1984/06/03/nyregion/dairy- hoards-500-tons-of-ice-for-the-summer.html)

[6]: [https://www.farmshow.com/a_article.php?aid=15129](https://www.farmshow.com/a_article.php?aid=15129)

<comment><USER7> What's the thermal conductivity of soil?

Wouldn't you have to insulate your pond from below as well as above?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Another way is to simply use the ground. Dig trenches, lay in pipe. The ground is cooler than the air in summer, can warmer in winter. I read that using it as a heat exchanger can cut HVAC bills by 30%.

<comment><USER9> These systems are pretty popular, even my dad has one. The problem is they're also pretty expensive -- on the order of $20,000. At that price it could take a long time to hit break even, at least in the U.S.

<comment><USER8> The main expense is digging the trenches. If this is done before the house is constructed, i.e. you've already got the backhoe on site to prep the site, the cost should be minimal.

<comment><USER10> You can also bore wells.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I think this kind of technology has enormous potential to improve human life. Bad weather is a huge, chronic problem that makes almost everyones' life substantially worse. Just the other day my aunt broke her wrist after slipping on a patch of ice.

One question though: why do they need a special high-tech material to do this? Why can't they just bubble warm air through cold water in the summer and vice- versa in the winter? Water has very large heat capacity, 400x that of air by volume.

<comment><USER12> It's not high-tech. It is low-tech. NaOH is lye. Anything in the 50% NaOH solution that is not water is there to make it viscous, but not get it wet

<comment><USER13> High-tech, by definition, is tech which can make high profit, i.e. c1 sand into $500 processor. Sand is not low-tech or high-tech by itself.

PS.

Quote from Wikipedia for downvoters:

High tech is often viewed as high risk, but offering the opportunity for high profits.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_tech](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_tech)

<comment><USER14> Definition: "Technology that is at the cutting edge".

Fact: Chemically produced lye dates back to at least 1791 with the Leblanc process: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leblanc_process](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leblanc_process)

<comment><USER13> Fact: green energy/renewable energy/energy saving technologies are cutting edge now.

Fact: your processor is made from sand which was discovered by first human ever.

<comment><USER14> Yes, it's a little known fact that Babylonians were casting huge perfectly pure silicon crystals. They were also pioneers in x-ray lithography!

Processors are made from sand in the same way people are made from carbon. You're skipping a few important steps.

<comment><USER13> Skipped steps are called "high-tech".

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> This sounds pretty cool, but are there any numbers on energy density?

<comment><USER10> Wikipedia says 44.51 kJ/mol, so that should be 309 Wh/kg, for _dry_ NaOH dissolved in water. The amount of energy needed to heat 1 kg of water with 1 K is 1.16 Wh. So the heat released from dissolving 1 kg of NaOH in water will heat 10 liters of water with about 26.64 K.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enthalpy_change_of_solution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enthalpy_change_of_solution)

With the heat released from 20 kg of NaOH dissolved in water you could heat 100 liters of water with 53,3 K, enough to take a hot bath.

<comment><USER16> It is also more than twice as dense as water, so the amount needed to heat 100 liters of water with 53,3 K will only have 1/10th the volume of said water. So even if you only use a small area in your basement for energy storage, it should be enough to have hot baths all winter...

<comment><USER17> 20kg of lye for a bath seems like a lot. That's 2000 kg just to get through the coldest 3 months. Multiply that by the number of people in the house. And then remember to add space for all the water you'll have to mix with the lye to extract the heat. And actually double the water space if you're going to keep it after recharging instead of dumping it.

That sounds like a huge amount of space.

<comment><USER16> 2000kg of NaOH has a volume of less than one cubic meter. And I don't get for what reason I would have to store the water needed for the reaction instead of just connecting the device to whatever water supply the house uses.

<comment><USER17> A cubic meter per resident. For just 3 months of the years. And each unit is diluted 50% already.

As for the water, you're going to basically dump a bunch of water into this thing to generate heat. And when you're done, your NaOH will be more dilute and need a bigger storage vessel. So you need enough room to store all the water you'll ever add.

When you recharge, you'll produce a bunch of water, too. You either dump it or you store it for the next use. If you store it, then you double the amount of storage that you need for water because you have room premix and postmix.

<comment><USER10> You could use a cubic meter of solution and store the heat underground then use a heat pump to extract it. But that could be also done directly by heating the ground using excess solar. Lye seems better suited for daily storage - store during the day, extract at night. Mostly useful in the desert or during the spring/fall when day/nught temperature variations are high and solar irradiation is good enough.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> (Wikipedia:) Worldwide production [of sodium hydroxide] in 2004 was approximately 60 million tonnes, while demand was 51 million tonnes.

So it might be relatively cheap to acquire the working material.

<comment><USER19> It's pretty horrible stuff though. I really don't think I'd want pipes full of that in the basement of my home.

<comment><USER20> Personally I would have no problem to have that stuff in the basement, whilst having it circulating in pipes just under the floor (you know, the heated kind, where likely you go around barefooted) might be an issue. Also, consider how on multi-storey houses the ceiling is nothing but the underside of the upper floor. ;)

<comment><USER21> I dont think the lye itself is supposed to circulate in the floor/radiators. There would be a heat exchanger.

<comment><USER20> Sure, I do hope that those scientists are not totally irresponsible.

Still another heat exchanger will further lower the efficiency of the system. In my experience (maybe a tad bit dated) common heat exchangers (water/water) are difficult to maintain as - generally speaking - the most efficient ones have smaller passages for the liquid and they tend to become clogged and it is "normal" to clean them periodically.

I have no idea how large must be a heat exchanger (where one of the fluids is lye) to be efficient enough, considering also that the temperature is relatively low, but most probably it won't be exactly "compact".

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> This reminded me of a similar system that uses the same tech as those hand warmer things that have a chemical that changes state, either absorbing or releasing energy. They also talk about absorbing heat and physically transporting it. The example they have was waste heat from industrial processes being shipped via canal to a district heating system.

[http://www.sunamp.com/](http://www.sunamp.com/)

</comment><comment><USER23> > The heated water generated in the process of condensation is then > transferred to a geothermal probe (generally loops of pipes embedded > vertically in the ground) for storage and retrieval.

That is a neat approach. It works well for solar-heated water. Where winters are very cold and summers hot, one can also have cold-storage loops for summer cooling.

I'm not sure about the NaOH thing, however. I get that it enables heat transport. But as scotty79 notes, transporting concentrated NaOH is hazardous. It's already done, of course. But the scale for heat transport would be much greater than as chemical feedstock, I think.

</comment><comment><USER24> I wonder how efficient this process is. The article did not state that figure.

<comment><USER25> Plus, the 50% recharge rate indicates that the medium would need to be replaced every couple of years.

<comment><USER26> I think you misread the article, that figure is the concentration diluted with water.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> I usually find these types of new green technology to be impractical, and obviously not going anywhere (store energy by dragging a train uphill for example).

But this actually looks like it would work!

<comment><USER27> Why wouldn't storing energy by dragging a train uphill work? It's basically the same as pumped hydro storage, and that's being used right now.

<comment><USER28> Let's assume a large example: trains weighing in sum 20 000 tons (e.g. 200 freight cars, each weighting 100 tons, probably distributed across a few trains), and an incline with a _height difference_ of 1 km (which is going to be _very_ long to be usable with heavy trains).

that's 20 000 000 kg * 9.81 N/kg * 1 000 m = 196 200 000 000 Nm or 55.4 MWh stored energy (without efficiency factors, so not the usable energy at the end).

In comparison, a stored-hydro plant typically has between 200 MWh to 3 GWh capacity.

Maybe you could stack even more trains on it? But that again adds complexity and costs (more locomotives needed). I'm not convinced it will work out in all that many locations. And how fast can you transfer power in and out, with limited train speeds and overhead wiring?

Stored hydro is simpler and at least just needs space to scale the capacity, so you can make it a lot larger, even if it also only works in selected suitable locations.

(Sorry for editing this so much, should have written it out in a text file beforehand ;))

<comment><USER29> My understanding of the idea is that they plan to move the weights up the hill by train, but then unload the weight. That way, with just one car, you can move multiple cars' worth of weight up the hill. Now, this bottlenecks you on how quickly you can store/release energy, and you have to store a lot of cargo containers in a possibly small space, but even moving 4+ cars' worth of weight per car brings the total stored energy capacity up to that of a smaller stored-hydro plant. Not to say this is necessarily cheaper than stored hydro, but it at least costs a lot less in terms of excavation.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> Is this something that could be used in a dense urban residential setting?

Is the reaction extremely volatile? Does this require a high-tech ultra-low- tolerances system, or can it be DIY-ed?

I can see having a setup on a condo balcony (esp. if you're facing south / west), with heat exchangers on an otherwise-unused wall, and a few cylinders of NaOH. As long as the kit doesn't blow the wall off the building if it leaks or some such disaster..

<comment><USER31> I'm not sure what you mean by "volatile reaction". NaOH is not super dangerous but I wouldn't trust a DIYer with large quantities, since it's so alkaline. You can find out more online by just searching for "MSDS sodium hydroxide" and you'll find phrases like "very hazardous in case of skin contact".

A leak in some DIY setup would easily have horrific / disfiguring consequences.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> If the system scales based on the fluid, the $/kwh could get pretty low. Would be interesting what a MWh amount of heat storage would cost.

<comment><USER10> Assuming the 50% NaOH solution releases half the amount of heat released from dissolving dry sodium hydroxide in water, to store 1 MWh you would need about 6.5 tonnes of sodium hydroxide. The price for NaOH pearls 99% is 300-400$ per 1 metric tonne.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> This is a really neat system. I wonder how many BTUs per liter you can store ...

</comment><comment><USER34> A simpler method is to grow crops and eat them.

</comment><comment> a-b Is this about the global warming?

<comment><USER35> The article describes a method using NaOH for long-term storage and transfer of heat, taking advantage of excess heat in the summer to use it during the colder months of winter.

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> There is a better solution already implemented..

[https://youtu.be/sbX6K7ky9LQ](https://youtu.be/sbX6K7ky9LQ)</comment>


Google Instant removed the word 'scam' & has blacklisted it from Google Instant - <AUTHOR> http://www.distilled.co.uk/blog/seo/google-blocking-scam-keyword-in-autocomplete/

<comment><USER2> It's being treated in the same way as all other adult terms that were blacklisted.

<http://www.2600.com/googleblacklist/></comment>


Rickshaw is a JavaScript toolkit for creating interactive time series graphs - <AUTHOR> http://shutterstock.github.com/rickshaw/

<comment><USER2> Highcharts is one of the best graphing library I have come across. It makes all the charts interactive with zooming, auto scaling, dynamic visibility of various lines/metrics etc.

Check it out at: <http://www.highcharts.com/>

<comment><USER3> Highcharts' zoomable graphs are a killer feature at the moment. They are not difficult to use, and I use them to show 30 days worth of data (2880 points per graph) in my monitoring apps. They work on mobile and web out of the box, too.

I'm unlikely to even considerer another library until they match that feature.

<comment><USER4> dygraphs has had that feature for about five years :)

There's also a "range selector" mode if you prefer the two-pane zooming interface: <http://dygraphs.com/tests/range-selector.html>

<comment><USER2> I don't see the small window which shows the x & y co ordinates of the point you are hovering at. Is it it turned off by default?

<comment><USER4> Nope, it's in the top right of the chart. It shows values when you hover over the chart.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Thanks for taking a look!

There's a little more info in our recent blog post about this too: <http://bits.shutterstock.com/?p=103>

In particular, here's an example where you can switch between stacked, percentage, and line views; toggle on and off each data series; re-order the stack with drag-and-drop; zoom in to a time slice; add smoothing; add annotations, etc:

[http://shutterstock.github.com/rickshaw/examples/extensions....](http://shutterstock.github.com/rickshaw/examples/extensions.html)

It can make a difference, having this functionality around when you're trying to dig in and read your data.

</comment><comment><USER6> Looks good. I like how's it's layered on top of d3.

But "interactive" means you can _interact_. These charts seem to be almost entirely passive. Sure, you can build a UI that refreshes the chart with new data or new parameters, and you can read off values corresponding to the mouse pointer position in the chart. A truly interactive chart would let you zoom in and out (ie., change the resolution of the X axis), select ranges of values and so on. To truly support the claim for interactivity you should include a few interactive examples.

One last nitpick: The technically precise word for this kind of thing is chart, not graph.

<comment><USER7> "A truly interactive chart would let you zoom in and out ... and so on."

dchester's comment (<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3340609>) links to [http://shutterstock.github.com/rickshaw/examples/extensions....](http://shutterstock.github.com/rickshaw/examples/extensions.html), which demonstrates some of Rickshaw's interactions.

<comment><USER6> Ok, that example has a slider. That slider was hard to spot.

Pretty awful choice of UI; wonder if the basic chart classes are designed to be extended with a better zoom UI?

Also, what about fetching of remote data of variable resolution? I might have millions of data points on the server; I want the chart to fetch a subset of the data based on the current resolution and bounding box of the axis.

<comment><USER7> "Ok, that example has a slider"

It has two. There is one below the legend on the left hand side. That smooths your data by aggregating the plots.

It also has the zoom slider under the graph. Or chart, rather.

When you mouse over the series items on the top left corner, the data of the item you are mousing over is highlighted on the graph.

You can uncheck some of those series items to focus on particular data, e.g. look at New York and Tokyo and London.

You can re-order them by dragging them.

You can switch the view between stacks, percentage, stream and lines.

"Pretty awful choice of UI"

There are some nice things that come with the slider across the bottom of the graph. When I grab an end of the slider and move it, I can see exactly what is happening to the data as I move it, and I can let my eye determine where I should settle.

The question of "how do I get back" isn't on my mind. I know how to do that.

I can pin the left hand side somewhere and watch new data come into view, or pin the right hand side somewhere to make the view momentarily static.

"Also, what about fetching of remote data of variable resolution"

You can fetch your data however you want to.

Edit: I forgot to mention that the zoom slider there is just a DOM element. You can dress it up any which way.

<comment><USER6> > That smooths your data by aggregating the plots.

I'm confused about what the smoothing is supposed to be doing, since it's changing the X axis. I would have expected it maintain the X axis and simply choose fewer points (and use an averaging algorithm to produce smooth curves).

When aggregating, can one easily insert a "rug" plot (see [http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~sjm217/projects/graphics/faithful.h...](http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~sjm217/projects/graphics/faithful.html)) to indicate sample frequency?

The slider, though, has several problems:

\- Lacks labels. The slider operates on some unknown scale of values. So I can't use it to zoom in/out to a specific time range, for exampel.

\- Once I have found a zoomed subset, the slider does not let me scroll within it. Clicking on the "filled" part of the slider should modify the subset.

\- In fact, there's no way to scroll at all.

\- There's no single mechanism to zoom out. Zooming out requires two drag operations.

Yes, I'm sure this is just an example, but the main reason to use a chart library is so you don't have write one yourself, which is why I'm asking about these things. I have a specific app in mind that requires time-series charts, but I'm still looking for the right library that gives me the features I need. I looked at Dygraphs (<http://dygraphs.com/>) but it seems a bit limited.

<comment><USER4> I'm curious what ways you found dygraphs "a bit limited". It can do quite a bit more than people realize at first glance.

<comment><USER6> Mind you, I have only looked superficially at Dygraphs -- looked at the examples, documentation and a bit of the source code.

My main issue is that Dygraphs is (as far as I can see) a monolithic chart renderer. Everything is built into a single renderer that takes a huge amount of options. It does not seem to be possible to add more axes, add custom extensions (like "rug" plots) or behaviours (like selections), because of its monolithic nature.

My favourite plotting system is R, which essentially divides the rendering into a large set of drawing operations that can be tweaked and combined in all sorts of ways. R is not a model I would want anyone to follow in a charting library (it's much too "free form" and does not have an underlying drawing model beyond vectors), but it's a model to follow in terms of extensiblity.

Some stuff I miss in Dygraphs:

\- I want the user to be able to select a range of X axis using the mouse (Dygraphs uses this for zooming), and keep zooming separate.

\- I want the user to be able to select a chart line/bar by clicking on it with the mouse.

\- I want to be able to scroll the X axis programatically.

\- I want to fetch remote data at varying resolutions matching the chart zoom level. From what I can see, this is not trivial with Dygraphs.

\- Rug plots, histograms (bar charts) and error bar support.

\- Stacked area plots.

In a well-architected chart system I would be able to add new graphical components (the Google Maps API is a good example) and override behaviour by adding event handlers that interacted with the chart API. I don't see how to do this with Dygraphs.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> This question is kind of apropos of nothing, but I noticed that one of the example documents [1] has a weird markup structure, lacking tags like HEAD, BODY, etc. Is this just one of those weird accidental things or is this an intentional technique? It kind of reminds me of the dark old days of IE6 workarounds.

Probably a dumb question but I don't keep up on client-side technology as much as I should so I was curious.

<http://shutterstock.github.com/rickshaw/examples/y_axis.html>

<comment><USER7> It isn't an intentional workaround, and is an artifact of typing the least amount of markup possible to make something render.

We'll fix that, thanks!

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> If you like this, you may also want to check out dygraphs, an open source library which does something similar and has been around for a few years: dygraphs.com

<comment><USER7> dygraphs is lovely, nice work there! One of the pieces that I particularly like is how you handle CSV data.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> I wrote a much more rudimentary tool with a similar bent to display temperature graphs on some microcontrollers.

<https://github.com/lukeschlather/holdengraph>

These microcontrollers don't have much processing power, so offloading rendering onto the browser is actually an absolute necessity.

</comment><comment><USER10> Awesome. Maybe you can find a way to work with Mike Bostock on the Cube project. Add some interactivity to real time graphs.

</comment><comment><USER11> These are gorgeous!

<comment><USER7> Thanks! Most (read "all") the credit there, as well as the credit for the other useful parts of the code, belongs to David Chester.

But I'm louder on the internet and have been working with Rickshaw for a while, so I get to say "thanks" [grin].

Let us know of any roadblocks you hit if you take it for a spin!</comment></comment>


World's First 3-D Printed Excavator on Display - <AUTHOR> http://www.manufacturingtomorrow.com/news/2016/04/20/world%E2%80%99s-first-3-d-printed-excavator-on-display-at-conexpo-conagg-and-ifpe/7915/ <comment><USER2> Does anyone have any more information on this or any pictures? This seems like just a fluff press release.

It seems like this project is coming from Georgia Tech and Minnesota State. Is their any information available from either of these university department sites?

</comment><comment><USER3> ... in March 2017. Misleading title.</comment>


How Two Friends Built a $100 Million Company - <AUTHOR> http://www.inc.com/ss/how-two-friends-built-100-million-company?partner=rss <comment><USER2> Although this article is short on substance, I didn't know about this company or their story. This sort of thing gives me hope for the future of mankind. We've become a world dependent on inefficient big companies, but these guys have proven that there is refuge from the mess we have made.

I know we are very web-app centric here at Hacker News, but this just goes to show that the principals grown from hackers roots have applicability in other, even physical, domains. It seems kind of odd that software engineers are revolutionizing the world even without software. Who'd have guessed it?

<comment><USER3> Just think of how many parts of a normal person's day suck. These guys put some "Apple" and some "Whole Foods" into hand soap. Every boring product out there is vulnerable to a similar attack as consumer attitudes towards aesthetics and the environment change.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Try the non-annoying printer friendly version: <http://www.inc.com/print/44?partner=rss>

That slideshow is maddening.

<comment><USER5> You know what? This time and this time only I'll play devil's advocate and say: I like how it looks on the page. The slideshow transitioned very quickly (I didn't stop to check if it was AJAX, but it was fast either way), and the click targets to progress were large enough that I got through it quickly and effectively.

<comment><USER6> I opened the article in a new tab to read it later. When I got around to reading it, it had apparently gone to the last slide automatically, and it made absolutely no sense to me. It doesn't look like a slideshow, so I just assumed that it was a poorly written article in which the author expected us to already know a lot of info that we couldn't have been expected to know. It makes a lot more sense coming back here to read the comments.</comment></comment></comment>