Fixing Impostor Syndrome in Coding Interviews - <AUTHOR> https://www.interviewcake.com/impostor-syndrome-in-programming-interviews <comment><USER2> Serious question: Could it be that imposter syndrome isn't real, but what people are actually experiencing is imposter syndrome-syndrome?

I don't think there's a person whom I've known who hasn't claimed to have experienced imposter syndrome. It seems like everyone has this feeling when they're engaging in something they have don't have complete experience or confidence in. This is a _normal_ way to feel, but some people are better at overcoming it than others. The people who don't seem like they experience imposter syndrome are either well settled into their roles or are simply good actors who can handle pressure. At some point or another, we decided that this state of being had something to do with being an "imposter" rather than being a human being lacking experience. Unless you outright lied about who you are, you're not an imposter.

This reminds me how everyone says they're an "introvert". Even the people I know who are party animals say they're introverts because they need time to "recharge". We throw around these terms like "imposter syndrome" and "introvert" because they make us feel better, even though they describe most people, in which case they're really not that useful. Sometimes you've just got to buck up and not waste time overthinking, descriptions of one's self being one form of that.

<comment><USER3> Let X = "the natural feeling of inadequacy that pretty much everyone feels when learning new things".

Your question is a bit confusing. It sounds like you acknowledge X's existence, but are mostly unhappy with the naming, since "imposter" implies a negative connotation (which X isn't), and "syndrome" implies that it is some sort of exceptional condition (where X isn't). I agree with you on that _about X_.

That said, I think imposter syndrome isn't about X _per se_. I am more interested in the case where X gets into smart people's heads and prevents them from being as successful as they can be (projecting a bit, because I too have imposter syndrome). In these cases, it makes sense to not only label it, but also give it a slight negative connotation. At that point, X becomes a phenomenon that is worth talking about.

<comment><USER4> The impression I got from the GP wasn't that it wasn't a negative thing but rather that it was so ubiquitous that we should just think of it as normal and not the special case

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> >It's a fluke that I got this job interview..."

>"I studied for weeks, but I'm still not prepared..."

>"I'm not actually good at this. They're going to see right through me..."

>If any of these thoughts resonate with you, you're not alone. They are so common they have a name: impostor syndrome

I mean it's clear that their secret sauce is just instilling confidence in everyone, and it's great to have such an optimistic view, but reality is that these things are often true and happen to everybody. Sometimes you're just not good enough, sorry.

</comment><comment><USER6> While it wasn't said, this somewhat implies that people are faking their way into companies, guessing and pulling other tricks to get through an interview. The simple solution is for people to be honest with themselves and their interviewer about their capabilities. This is my approach and it sometimes means that I don't get work because I flat out said that I know nothing about a certain technology or don't have mastery over something yet. Today, someone must have thought I had excellent SQL skills and I clearly let them know that I can do CRUD and stored procs (the typical developer toolset), but much of my recent experience is with ORMs. The gig might not come through, but I don't have to worry about imposter syndrome or my relationship with the other developer.

</comment><comment><USER7> Impostor syndrome is a real phenomenon, but contrary to what everybody studying it says, the strongest counter to it is more emphasis on objective and impersonal evaluation criteria, not less. In my experience, much of it is _created_ by initiatives that ostensibly try to fight it.

</comment><comment><USER8> I don't understand this article as applied to the interviewing experiences I've just had. The wide berth of interview questions I've had in the past does suggest that I do need to know quite a bit, and in addition, the slight mistakes I've made have led to many rejections.

It's not just knowing your comp sci basics such as recursion or closure or BigO, but knowing quirks in multiple languages, and know them well enough to catch them in a coding interview. If you don't get everything exactly correct, then you are rejected and labeled an imposter (and labeled so much so, Amazon will block you from any further interviews for one year).

It also takes knowing as many platforms as possible if one wants to be as employable as possible. The current hotness is React, but I've still seen some good Angular jobs out there, and knowing both to a high degree will make one a tad more employable. How much of an imposter am I if I know React, MVC patterns, but just a little Angular, and apply to an Angular job?

None of the jobs I've applied to are senior level, yet it makes me shudder in fear to ever interview again beyond the entry level. The imposter syndrome is real, not because of my insecurities, but because of the outcomes of the interviews I've had.

<comment><USER9> It sounds like you've had some bad interviews - that is, that your interviewer did a poor job.

Small nitpicks should not disqualify you, small mistakes should not disqualify you. In fact small mistakes are expected and can be used as part of the interview to see if the interviewee can identify their mistakes when hinted at.

I've never been required to know a particular platform before. I HAVE been asked to do a small API project in Go prior to the interview, which is similar, but it was an excellent take home problem in scope and completeness. Something like a TodoMVP in React. Something that doesn't require mastery, they just want to see that you can do something that takes more than an hour.

It is reasonable for a company to decline to hire if they cannot afford for you to train in a new technology on the job. But this is a failing in the company and NOT a rejection of you.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Something related to but much less well known than impostor syndrome is the so-called Jonah complex[1], which is _" the fear of success or the fear of being one's best which prevents self-actualization, or the realization of one's own potential. It is the fear of one's own greatness, the evasion of one's destiny, or the avoidance of exercising one's talents."_

[1] - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonah_complex](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonah_complex)

</comment><comment><USER11> People talk about imposter syndrome without thinking about the other side of the coin. There are actually tons of actual imposters in our midst as well.

Inept and incapable people often get promoted because they either know how to play the political game or are perceived not to be a threat. A great number of these people are aware they are imposters and they are actually right.

</comment><comment><USER12> I frequently get imposter syndrome, or terrible realisations that I am in fact an imposter, I'm not sure which, but one situation in which I would be supremely confident that the imposter was the one sitting on the other side of the table would be if I were being judged by my (in)ability to perform leetcode tricks unrehearsed.

</comment><comment><USER13> I have imposter syndrome, and what's worse I'm really shy and have trouble looking people in the eye which makes me seem like a liar. What helps me a lot is the move companies are making towards remote interviews. For some reason with skype I can look people right in the eye, it's probably because they're off-center visually or because I know they're not really here. However, that only helps with the shyness it doesn't really solve the imposter part. And, it's not because I'm not competent, I've successfully shipped every project I've ever been part of.

<comment><USER14> There's a great line in Glenn Gary Glenn Ross where one character says "I always get nervous when I talk to the police." and the other character says "Yeah, you know who doesn't get nervous when they talk to the police... criminals."

It's perfectly normal to be a bit nervous or shy during interviews, so don't sweat it so much. A decent interviewer isn't going to hold that against you. I'm more suspicious of people who aren't a bit nervous, and am inclined to interview them more thoroughly because most of the time when companies I've worked for have hired someone who's slick, they've turned out to be an imposter.

<comment><USER15> > It's perfectly normal to be a bit nervous or shy during interviews, so don't > sweat it so much. A decent interviewer isn't going to hold that against you.

An interviewer held it against me. Said I did well technically but didn't seem confident enough.

In order to ace the interview you pretty much have to be the perfect candidate -- technically, socially, emotionally.

<comment><USER16> Yikes. I've done the opposite. A fully qualified candidate was so satisfied in his competence that he was absolutely insufferable.

As he was completing the coding portion of his interview, I broached the topic of comments. "Nah, this is an interview, it doesn't matter."

This was back in 98 and he had a little personal website with a discussion board for his friends. He whined there about not getting the job, so I explained that it was his attitude, and not his skills, that made him a bad fit. His friends seemed to agree with me, that getting taken down a notch was a necessary step in his emotional growth.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> It all depends on the need for a successful outcome. I talk confidently when there's no real pressure for me to get the job. But if I need a positive outcome it is less so. Maybe it's nerves but interviews are stressful.

<comment><USER18> Yeah, the more necessary you feel the job to be, the worse the nerves are. Many years ago I was desperate to escape my job to one better suited to my skills. Did fine on the phone screens.

However, the nervousness of the whole in-person interview situation caused me to basically blow it. Stuff I knew like the back of my hand, or would get almost instantly under calmer circumstances, I simply kept stumbling on.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> > Here's the good news: you're not an impostor

Some people are, though. Sometimes, "impostor syndrome" isn't really a syndrome, but an appropriate way to feel when you've been Peter-Principled your way into a position that you're not competent in.

<comment><USER20> One of the reasons imposter syndrome is so prevalent in the tech industry is that everyone with more than a few years of experience has worked alongside people who talked their way into the job but cannot code their way out of a wet paper bag. It's directly related, in my opinion, to the terrible state of interviews in this field.

<comment><USER21> Can't people reassure themselves by picking a wet paper bag to code themselves out of?

<comment><USER22> Yes! My last year in grad school, this is part of how I kept my sanity: random little side-projects on which I could make concrete progress in a couple of evenings.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> I know that I'm somewhat of an impostor because interviews don't test for what's really important in this field - namely grit - and rely on gut feeling in this regard instead.

<comment><USER24> Couldn't one say that sticking it out to study and practice for interviews is itself gritty?

<comment><USER23> Kinda, but what I'm talking about is more along the lines of pushing through months of hard work to deliver a project on a hard deadline.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> am i the only one that _doesn 't_ experience imposter syndrome? i actually feel highly qualified and good at my job.

<comment><USER26> I feel that way almost all the time—mostly due to client and co-worker feedback—except when interviewing. Interviews are far more demanding and stressful than any dev job I've had. Even the bad weeks.</comment></comment>


Physicist challenges a traffic case about running a red light. He Won [pdf] - <AUTHOR> http://arxiv.org/pdf/1204.0162v2.pdf

<comment><USER2> To get out of a red light ticket, I once successfully argued that given the size of the intersection, the length of the yellow light, and the speed limit of the street, I would have to speed or have a reaction time that was significantly better than average to not break the law.

<comment><USER3> When I was in highschool, to get out of a speeding ticket, I was prepared to show that I could not have come to a full stop where the officer pulled me over if I was going as fast as he claimed (53mph), even with ideal assumptions (zero reaction time and perfect braking performance), which is quite an assumption for the 30 year-old car I was driving at the time. I never got a chance to test it in court, because the officer didn't show up on my court date.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Discussed 5 months ago: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3842033>

The original submission date for the paper is interesting (<http://arxiv.org/abs/1204.0162>) ...

Yes, it is real:

\- <http://www.sdsc.edu/News%20Items/PR041312_trafficticket.html>

\- <http://www.caida.org/~dima/>

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the pointer to original discussion. Some interesting points on that one.</comment></comment>


Infographic: Social Media Reactions to the Netflix-Qwikster Split - <AUTHOR> http://loudpixel.com/blog/netflix-qwikster-infographic/

<comment><AUTHOR> These are strictly quantitative numbers as we haven't done deep research into the overall sentiment of the announcement. But it does give you an idea of just how much reach Netflix has and how their announcements drive conversation.</comment>


Raising Money - <AUTHOR> http://jessicamah.com/blog/?p=1064

<comment><USER3> _Just this week, I was talking to some well-known venture capitalists about my company, told them about the idea, talked about the market, and one of the first questions they asked was 'do you have a website yet?' Well, not only do we have a website up, but we have a product AND paying customers! And they were stunned because the majority of entrepreneurs who pitch them have nothing to show for but a nice powerpoint presentation._

Very interesting.

Wow. If a .ppt-type of presentation alone is enough to wow the VC people, I'm obviously doing something wrong.

Mah's approach is smart, kinda like mine: don't ask for it unless it's needed; use what you have efficiently.

The multiple-zero VC stuff is too easily manipulated.

<comment><USER4> I think it's important to just sit down and have a casual chat - <USER2> expectations, no presentations, no real "preparation". Just talk to them as you would to a hot girl on your first date! Too many people rush into trying to impress investors the traditional way, and that never made much sense to me.

<comment><USER3> Yeah, I think perhaps the problem is that I'm a NOT "hot"

(narcissistic & self-obsessed == LeahCulver.com variety of) female;

I wish my work could just speak for itself without all the marketing hype and baloney.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Steve Blank's "accelerator" view of VC financing begs this question: why not raise debt instead of equity?

Any banker will agree that equity is the worst way to raise funds. It's a fair deal if the investor is taking a risk. But if you really have a working business model, that "just needs money", I don't think there is that much risk... normally the risk is the discovery of that model.

<comment><USER4> hmmm... thats a good idea. If you're running a profitable business that just wants a little money to grow, and you know you'll be able to pay that back, then debt might just be the better (and lower risk) way to go.

But obviously, lower risk means lower returns. Why else do VCs ask that you have more "traction"? They want lower risk for themselves, yet being able to insure that they'll maximize their returns.

Pretty good deal for the investors, if you ask me.

<comment><USER6> To the above poster, I believe you meant debt is the lower cost way to go, not lower risk.</comment></comment></comment>


Sex drive-in - <AUTHOR> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_drive-in <comment><USER2> Here we are in a world that supposedly treasures the ability of consenting adults to do whether we want yet paid sex is still illegal and in fact being restricted further in places it was formerly allowed.

<comment><USER3> That's a fair take, but I don't think it really applies to the article: almost all of the countries mentioned in it have prostitution some flavor of legalized via Abolitionism or Legalization (Germany, the Netherlands, Switzerland) or Neo-Abolitionism (Sweden).

See: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Europe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Europe)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> And here I am in Canada without a car. At least weed is legal.

<comment><USER5> well, I suppose if you were immodest you could just use the stall..

i'm not sure the prostitute would be too thrilled.

<comment><USER4> 🧐

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> > Generally facilities are designed so that the driver cannot exit the vehicle > after pulling into the structure, but the prostitute can.

How?

<comment><USER7> One idea: Provide stalls that are just large enough for a single car to fit with a gap of 1m between the stalls. Put a hole in the wall on the passenger side where the doors would be so that they open into the hole and allow someone on the passenger side to exit into the gap.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Is this really appropriate for Hacker News, a news site for software engineering

<comment><USER9> Maybe German software engineers have to use sex boxes a lot?

<comment><USER10> Please don't.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> How bad must these people feel about themselves after though. Driving out to some seedy "sex box" to pay to have uncomfortable car sex. The self disgust on the drive back must really be something lol.

<comment><USER11> This hate seems uncalled for.</comment></comment>


$80,000 for a Year Off? She'll Take It! - <AUTHOR> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/13/nyregion/13bigcity.html?_r=1&hp

<comment><USER2> A friend of mine interned at Skadden last summer and has a job offer from them to start this fall. He said that new graduates are being offered the same arrangement -- a lump sum to postpone his start date by one year. He doesn't think he's going to take it, for a few reasons. I don't blame him; I would be really worried that the job would disappear over that year. They say it's safe, but it seems a lot tougher to lay off existing staff than to lay off someone who hasn't started yet.

</comment><comment><USER3> I remember hearing about Skadden during the Clinton imbroglio. To get into Skadden is probably like getting into D.E. Shaw

"The salary for a first-year associate (i.e., fresh out of law school) is reported to be $160,000, not including the annual discretionary bonus.[25]"

"Arguably the most recognizable law firm outside the legal industry, the firm is considered one of the most prestigious in the world, consistently ranking in the top five of Vault's annual list of the top law firms in the U.S. and boasting highly competitive foreign practices. The Skadden Fellowship, funded by the firm, is considered the most prestigious public-interest grant in the U.S. and is greatly sought-after by graduates of top law schools."

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skadden,_Arps,_Slate,_Meagher_&...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skadden,_Arps,_Slate,_Meagher_&_Flom)

</comment><comment><USER4> Employers with a significant number of employees working under stressful conditions should consider voluntary furlough programs, regardless of the state of the economy. Vacation, as it is currently implemented, can increase stress on these employees. If you're expected to clear the decks before you leave, possibly handle important issues that arise while you're out, and deal with a backlog when you return, vacation is very unattractive. A well-designed furlough program can allow the employer to plan for available staffing and let employees sanely decompress.

Such a program needn't be solely for saving money on payroll. (Obviously, a partial salary furlough is only really attractive to well-paid employees.) A good program would increase productivity and bring to the table fresher, better ideas.

<comment><USER5> When I was at SAP there was a program where you could set aside part of your salary for 6 months of paid leave after 5 years. Unfortunately you had to be over 30 to claim it.

<comment><USER6> Why 30 Years, specifically?

<comment><USER5> All I can do is guess: for most German professionals, that'd be within 5 years of getting out of college anyway (Germans usually start college at 20 or 21 and it takes 6 years, typically.). It's possible that given that, anyone younger than 30 was still seen as a "new hire" rather than "a career person". Since I started there when I was 22 though it was rather a disappointment. It might have kept me around longer, since after 4 years I wanted out -- but might have stuck around for that break at 5 years, and then who knows afterwards.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I guess Skadden thinks its economical to pay $80K as a retainer fee than to go out and recruit the same people with equivalent experience in a year. Another way to look at it is a generous severance package with an option to rehire.

The alternative is to lay off 2/3 of their associates.

<comment><USER8> Laying off people in a large organization is often very expensive, especially if you only think you need to cover a temporary drop in demand.

\- Redundancy process fees including consultants.

\- Salaries for the length of the consultation period.

\- Stress and de-motivation in the retained workforce.

\- Severance or early retirement pay.

\- Recruitment fees and signing bonuses once/if the staff are needed again.

\- Loss of efficiency and experience of new hires compared to old staff.

I can easily see that coming to a lot more than $80k per post.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> It boggles my mind that lawyers make so much money.

<comment><USER10> $80,000 X 3 = $240k/year

At an industry standard 80 hours/week, that works out to $60/hr. I don't know any good developers that would take a contract for only $60/hr. Do you?

<comment><USER11> That is a fair point - though I actually doubt that 80 hrs/week is standard. There are those weeks, but they're not the norm. The lawyers I know (the ones at the big first) work about 50-60 hrs/week. Still tough, but nowhere near that bad. Unfortunately, this is all anecdotal, just what I've observed and what friends have told me.

Also, the lawyer is not contracting - it's a job. I think plenty of developers would take a job that pays 240K/yr for a 60 hr workweek.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> This is a very cheap way to figure out which associates aren't interested in working hard enough to become partner.

Identify them for $80k and then let them go.

</comment><comment><USER13> It costs that much just to hire a new person on average, I'd imagine it would be even higher for lawyers.

Basically, instead of laying people off and re-hiring them when the time is right, they're spending the capital up front to create a pool of "firm approved" candidates. (It's not a flat 80K, it's 1/3 of salary - so cheaper people actually cost less to rehire than it would to go through the process after a lay off.)

Smart business running, but not exactly a great career move if you want to do well there.

</comment><comment><USER14> I heard from friends that the Big 5 Accounting firms are making similar offers to their employees. 1\3 of your salary for 3 months and you can take it off.

</comment><comment><USER15> Remember that a similar program for auto workers, the UAW's "jobs bank", was held out as an examplar of union featherbedding.

<comment><USER16> This is a private company for starters. The UAW jobs bank idea was forced by a union not management and was simply a move to make sure no one was fired even when it was cost effective to do so. They were paid between 85-100% salary too, not 33%.

In this case they want to trim costs a bit but also want to retain the employees. This will save money, not tank the company and require billions in Federal emergency loans.

<comment><USER15> _The UAW jobs bank idea was forced by a union not management_

You misspelled "agreed to". Nobody pointed a gun at a CEO and made him sign the contract.

<comment><USER16> Both sides made bad decisions, but when forced with the possibility of a strike dumb ideas like the jobs bank get approved. Even without a gun.

<comment><USER17> Actually a gun is involved.

Suppose UAW workers fail to show up to work, and the CEO fires them and hires replacements. In that case, men with guns show up and shut down GM (it's illegal to fire striking workers and hire replacements).

Also, if negotiations break down, men with guns may show up and broker an agreement (mandatory arbitration).

Unions, as they currently exist, are based very strongly on using threats of force against non-union workers and employers.

The CEO of GM did, in fact, have virtually no choice in the matter.

<comment><USER18> _Suppose UAW workers fail to show up to work, and the CEO fires them and hires replacements. In that case, men with guns show up and shut down GM (it's illegal to fire striking workers and hire replacements)._

This is simply not true, at least in the USA. See for example:

[http://www.thefreelibrary.com/APPEALS+PANEL+VOIDS+PENALTY+FO...](http://www.thefreelibrary.com/APPEALS+PANEL+VOIDS+PENALTY+FOR+FIRING+STRIKERS.\(NEWS\)-a083903004)

and

[http://www.nytimes.com/1992/04/16/us/caterpillar-s-trump- car...](http://www.nytimes.com/1992/04/16/us/caterpillar-s-trump-card-threat- permanently-replacing-strikers-gave-company.html?sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Painful read, because this offer's essentially a trap.

Law firms care beyond what is healthy about "professional image", at the personal level as well as for the firm. Anyone who takes this sort of offer is essentially penciling himself out for the best assignments and the partner track. A 6th-year associate is going to know what she's doing and probably has decided she isn't going to make partner, or doesn't want to do so, anyway. For her, this might be a good deal. A first-year who takes a stipend to defer is setting himself up for disaster. It looks really bad; it's a horrible way to start one's career.

<comment><USER20> She is making 240k/year as an Associate and get's to keep 1/3 of it on her vacation. I don't think most first-year prospects are going to be making that much.

PS: If anything this could help you make partner by having something which differentiates you from the pack. Assuming they do something interesting an don't just sit at home for a year.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> That's fascinating. The partner at my former firm was from Skadden. He said it was a sweat shop. Sickening. It's good that they're doing something with a little work/life balance.

Like most lawyers, after a while he found that money wasn't everything. Even with his nice car, and house, he felt empty--he's now an entrepreneur and loving it.</comment>


LibrePlanet 2019 videos now live - <AUTHOR> https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/libreplanet-2019-videos-now-live <comment><AUTHOR> In "Awards presentation and speech" Stallman talks about keeping the phone antenna off and carrying a pager. Can pagers not be tracked the same as phones? If not, would it be difficult to fit pager tech in a phone?</comment>


Timbuktu Libraries in Exile - <AUTHOR> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/timbuktu-libraries-in-exile/x/238429 <comment><USER2> What may be the most revolutionary finding as more ancient Islamic manuscripts are preserved by digitization and shared with scholars around the world is the known fact (known to specialized scholars, that is) that there isn't a certain ancient text for the Quran. Just like the case with the Bible, manuscript copyists made their best efforts to copy accurately the manuscripts before them as they made new manuscripts, but mistakes happened once in a while. And, just as in the case of the Bible, tracing the copied texts back to the earliest available manuscripts, and reconstruction of what the earliest probable form of the text was, doesn't provide certainty about the original "words of God" found in the texts. (That's equally true of the Hebrew scriptures also important to Jews and of the Greek scriptures known as the New Testament.) The gradual spread of knowledge of textual criticism (that's the name of this study as a field of scholarship) in the Christian world is helping to reduce "fundamentalist" tendencies among Christians. In the Islamic world, there is a much smaller percentage of Muslims who are aware that their holy book too has many varied copies, and there is no certainty about the original text of the Quran. As this awareness increases, that could be helpful in reducing conflict over supposed divine commands that were man-made in the first place.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textual_criticism>

[http://www.amazon.com/Textual-Criticism-Quran-Manuscripts- Ke...](http://www.amazon.com/Textual-Criticism-Quran-Manuscripts- Keith/dp/0739177532)

<http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Text/criticaltext.html>

<comment><USER3> I think it's well known among Muslims that there are multiple readings of the Quran. Another point of note is that unlike the Christian or Hebrew writings, the main method of preservation of the Quran has been through mass oral memorization, and so Muslims tend not to place much emphasis on manuscripts. All the printed editions of the Quran (known as Mushafs) are, in fact, authenticated by well-known memorizers of the Quran (Hafizs). It's also notable that while Bible literally means book, Quran literally means Recital, indicative of the fact that is in rhyming prose and meant to be recited orally from memory rather than read like a book.

<comment><USER4> this is not accurate. OP is referring to multiple _writings_ of the Quran, which is in fact something you'd be flogged for suggesting in most Muslim countries. The accepted dogma is that the words of the Quran have been protected from changes despite its oral nature, thus making the message more pure than that of the texts before it. also important to note is that translated versions of the Quran are not approved for worship - everyone must use the native Arabic. this does help ensure continuity in words if not meaning.

<comment><USER3> I am aware of the variations in ancient manuscripts of parts of the Quran. These variations are due to different scripts, different recitations, and sometimes scribe error. There is no reason why I would be flogged if some ancient manuscripts do not conform to the Quran. The accepted dogma is that the Quran has been preserved because of its oral nature, not despite it. No manuscript is as authentic as the oral word, and of course, no translation, whether oral or written, is the Quran itself.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I would say - this is important. Important enough to get direct aid, either governmental (US, France), or even from those with deep pockets (Google, Apple, Paul Allen, Gates Foundaton). Why are they still depending on crowdsourced funding? Dr. Diakite is in Oregon, maybe they can get Intel backing?

In addition to securing the manuscripts, they deserve a home in a new climate- controlled institution to replace the one torched, once the situation stabilizes.

These documents ought to be digitized and uploaded/mirrored to the cloud ASAP, so that the information content can no longer be destroyed.

<comment><USER6> Sounds like something UNESCO should be involved with.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Why are they not scanning/digitizing the whole collection and putting it online as part of this fundraiser? If they want money to simply keep these in some library or other, that doesn't excite me as much as helping make them available to the whole world.

EDIT: Here is part of the reply I received about scanning the collection: " _Preservation needs to happen first. The manuscripts will be destroyed by the humidity if they are not boxed within the next couple of months._ "

<comment><USER7> Just received a much longer reply and permission to share it:

Hi Miles,

Thanks for your message. Tony Dowler is our campaign manager and guru. I'd like to get him into this conversation if you don't mind, and I'm copying Brian Mayer as he is a really important member of our team on this effort and I see him in the thread your inquiry came out of.

A couple of things about the subject -

right now, we are concentrating on ensuring the physical integrity of the evacuated manuscripts. they are jam packed in metal footlockers in an environment that is much, much more humid than their home in Timbuktu. We have seen signs of trauma and also of humidity based risk (molds, mildew, fungus). If we don't get the manus into individual boxes with humidity traps before the rainy season get going next month, we are very afraid that we will lose them as "wet" based issues spread like wildfire on shelves in libraries. you can imagine what they could do in our footlockers.

SAVAMA DCI, the organization my friend and colleague, Abdel Kader Haidara, curator of the Mamma Haidara library, presides has digitized a couple thousand manuscripts over the years. Because of the physical vulnerability of the corpus (brittle linen rag paper, with highly unstable ferous inks for the most part), standard scanning protocols cannot be applied because the manuscripts literally burn when exposed to that kind of "hot light". Cold circuit photographic based digitization is extremely time and resource consuming as you can imagine. Character recognition in Arabic is another serious issue that needs to be resolved for the digital solution to be fully responsive in this corpus.

We think about the utlimate digital solution alot, Miles. Fantasize may be a better term for what we do - the sheer volume of funding, technical assistance to perfect it for this corpus, and the time needed to digitize all of the manuscripts is pretty overwhelming and as I said, at this point, we have about 30 days until it starts raining buckets in Mali and finding enough money to secure the physical integrity of the corpus is our number one priority for the time being.

Best, Steph

\</comment></comment><comment>- _T160K_ _Timbuktu Libraries in Exile Knowledge for Peace Initiative_

731 Woodmont Beach Road South Des Moines, Washington 98198 USA Tel. +1 206 948 5882 and Sébénincoro, Près du Pont Woyowayanko Bamako, Republique du Mali Tel. +223 76 43 89 06

Email: email@example.com URL: <http://t160k.org/>

<comment><AUTHOR> This is really important:

"We have about 30 days until it starts raining buckets in Mali and finding enough money to secure the physical integrity of the corpus is our number one priority for the time being"

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> This is a backstory on the project from the New Republic: [http://www.newrepublic.com/article/112898/timbuktu- librarian...](http://www.newrepublic.com/article/112898/timbuktu-librarians- duped-al-qaeda-save-books)

</comment><comment><USER8> I'm suspicious of this fundraiser. How does it relate to the Tombouctou Manuscripts Project? [0]

The TMP has government funding from the South African government, University of Cape Town and Ford Foundation and was working to preserve and digitise the manuscripts before the war (and had built a new climate-controlled centre, the Ahmad Baba Institute, for the purpose in Timbuktu) and has been working to recover and restore those displaced by the fighting.

That the organisation which has been most responsible for preserving these manuscripts over the past decade isn't even mentioned once on the Indiegogo page is decidedly odd.

I've sent the Project team a heads-up about this and asked for some feedback, so I hope to have more information soon. In the meantime I recommend refraining from donating money to this until the background is cleared up. Hopefully it'll all turn out to be on the up and up.

[0]<http://www.tombouctoumanuscripts.org/>

Edit: It's also worth reading the TMP's official statement on what happened to the manuscripts after the rebel take-over: [http://www.tombouctoumanuscripts.org/blog/entry/timbuktu_upd...](http://www.tombouctoumanuscripts.org/blog/entry/timbuktu_update/)

<comment><USER9> The article in The New Republic gives the story-

[http://www.newrepublic.com/article/112898/timbuktu- librarian...](http://www.newrepublic.com/article/112898/timbuktu-librarians- duped-al-qaeda-save-books)

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> This stuff makes my blood boil!!! They already destroyed tons on ancient buildings and relics in Timbuktu. When I saw them putting their axes in a 1000 year old temple... I WANTED TO SCREAAAAAAM.

<comment><AUTHOR> The books survived though. Now we just need to keep them preserved until they can be returned.

<comment><USER11> Re-whatnow? Return them to the place where they were almost destroyed? This kind if item should be viewed as a part of humanity's common history and carefully protected, not sent back into a barely stable area where they would act as a prime target for the people who were duped into letting them go.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> When I was a student at the University of Florida, I had the pleasure of working in the Special Collections department of the university library system. This is the department where collections significant to Florida history as well as really old things were kept. These items required a well controlled environment. I had the opportunity to discover many unique items, and I'm sure there are tons of things that some enterprising researcher may discover one day that no one currently knows about.

These Timbuktu items need to be preserved. In my opinion, destroying things of this nature, or letting them get destroyed through lack of care, is a very serious issue. I hope a larger body gets involved with this.

</comment><comment><USER13> I suppose it's well past the point where we can complain about every radical Islamist group being called Al-Qaeda with no regard for, say, what they actually are. Because terrorism. Or something.

<comment><AUTHOR> In all fairness, no ones going to donate to "Save books from Ansar Dine," are they?

But for the record, they are AQ affiliated. It's not a completely random connection.

<comment><USER14> By the way, do you have anything to do with the article you've linked? Because the _"when Europe was experiencing its dark ages, these collections were already well established"_ is complete nonsense. "The Dark Ages" refers to a period in the European history that ends with the end of the 10th century and that is commonly referred to as Early Middle Agen in modern historiography. Wikipedia claims that Timbuktu became a permanent settlement in the 12th century. By then, Europe had at least a few fledgling universities. So no, no Dark Ages here.

Obviously, that doesn't diminish the value of the effort (and, I hope, the eventual schievement), but whenever I see claims like that I cringe. So many people have so little notion of history... (I blame in on the Renaissance people, they were the ones who tried to blacken (pun intended :-)) the previous centuries so that they could feel good about the world they remade for themselves. And then the term got stuck.)

<comment><USER13> I'm getting a bit off topic here, but the Dark Ages is a deeply interesting invention. It simultaneously allows for linear, teleological progression, from a dark pit of despair to the brilliant shining world of today; while also allowing for a Roman-ticized past that we can imagine ourselves as having fallen from.

But most people were probably better off in the "Dark Ages" than in Roman times. And perhaps the darkest period of European history isn't something buried a thousand or two thousand years ago but something that happened in living memory.

<comment><USER14> It's sort of nicely ambiguous. If you hate the period (some people do, the Renaissance guys obviously did), you can interpret it as "the time when people were in the dark (about stuff)". If you love it (I do, for a plethora of reasons, as do many contemporary historians, now that our reconstruction shows that the life of the people in that period was as rich and study-worthy as any other historical period), the obvious interpretation is "the the time we've been in the dark about for quite some time (i.e., due to scanty records)".

To me, it always seemed that in the provinces, quite little has changed after the end of the 5th century from the POV of your ordinary peasant. The more remote provinces have never been that much urbanized to begin with, and the non-Roman east of Europe didn't notice a thing anyway.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I just realized that I am willing to part with a considerable wealth if war is waged on neutralizing groups which destroy knowledge or monuments; ancient or otherwise.

</comment><comment><USER16> I'm for open-sourcing all ancient books and give humanity access to it. NO COPYRIGHT can be held on ancient books, the authors have died hundreds of years ago. The "holy" church and their banksters should open access for scanners to all their book too.

"Saving ancient books and manuscripts from Al-Qaeda"? What the heck?? I don't know how Al-Qaeda ticks, but I remember having read that soldier troops from the us and other countries ripped and/or bombed the museums and archives, during the many wars.

</comment><comment><USER17> So...reading through the OP and the New Republic link it refers to, there is almost no mention of Al-Qaeda at all. This is the sole mention I could find (besides in the headline of the New Republic story):

> _This vision of a philosophical, scientific Islam means little to the Al > Qaeda–linked Islamist group Ansar Dine, which for most of last year ruled > Timbuktu through terror, cutting off the hands of thieves, flogging women > judged to be dressed immodestly, and destroying centuries-old tombs of local > saints. In the summer, the militants commandeered Ahmed Baba, using it as a > headquarters and barracks. Then, in January, French forces closed in on > Timbuktu. As the Islamists fled, they trashed the library, burning as many > of the manuscripts as they could find. The mayor of Timbuktu, Hallé Ousmani > Cissé, told The Guardian that all of Ahmed Baba's texts had been lost. "It's > true," he said. "They have burned the manuscripts."_

There's quite a difference between "Al-Qaeda" and "Al-Qaeda-linked"...in that a linked-to group may think of Al-Qaeda as the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" but most certainly have different philosophical aims. Don't get me wrong: destroying a library is bad no matter who is doing it. But if there's anything we've learned in the last decade of international politics, it's that these kinds of distinctions matter, and have, on occasion, been exploited for propaganda purposes.

Edit: oh, and after doing a cursory Wikipedia lookup, it appears there may be no association at all:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansar_Dine>

 _Ansar Dine has its main base among the Ifora tribe from the southern part of the Tuaregs' homeland.[8] It has been linked with Al-Qaeda Organization in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM) because its leader Iyad Ag Ghaly is the cousin of AQIM commander Hamada Ag Hama.[4] In April 2012, Salma Belaala, a professor at Warwick University who does research on jihadism in North Africa said that this association was false, claiming that Ansar Dine was opposed to Al Qaeda.[9] Ag Ghaly was also previously associated with the 1990 Tuareg rebellion.[4] The group's members are reported to be from Mali, Algeria, and Nigeria.[10] Omar Ould Hamaha, who served as Ansar Dine's spokesman after April 2012, became the military leader of the AQIM-affiliated Movement for Oneness and Jihad in West Africa (MOJWA) in August 2012.[11]_

</comment><comment><USER18> Who do you think legally owns the manuscripts?

<comment><USER14> The whole of humanity?

<comment><USER18> I'd love if that were the case although I dunno if I'd trust them to safeguard these, to be honest.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> The Swerve is an excellent read if you are interested in learning more about the history of losing texts to the ravages of time and religion.

</comment><comment><USER20> There is no such thing as Al-Qaeda.

<comment><USER21> As far as I can tell, there are two diametrically opposed groups of people who love to repeat this.

1) People who say that Al-Qaeda is a bogeyman that is used to justify any expense in the war on terror.

2) People who say that Al-Qaeda is a held up as a few bad apples when the problem is that all followers of Islam are terrorists.

I think they're both wrong. I'm curious: What exactly do you call the organization that bin Laden ran? I'd maybe buy arguments that this organization is not as pervasive or cohesive as they have been made out to be, but not that they never existed at all.

<comment><USER20> There was a short BBC documentary, and an intervview with a high rank officer who was telling that wherever they go there were no Al-Qaeda. Only few locals that were armed, no organization called Al-Qaeda. Maybe it was this <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mztfFdpd1Rk>

Also [http://gibiru.com/index.php/component/content/article/78-new...](http://gibiru.com/index.php/component/content/article/78-news/32799-there- is-no-al-qaeda-ex-uk-foreign-secretary) "There Is No 'Al Qaeda' - Ex UK Foreign Secretary"

Also CIA Whistle Blower Susan Lindauer says that everyone knew that there is going to be false flag on before 9/11 but not exatly how. And she says that there were huge military transportain into near Afganistan befor 9/11, it was already been planned, she say.

As for Al-Qaeda, probably Bin Laden called himsef mujahdeen or somthing like that, but they are not international so big organization. I don't exacly remember but they were trying to establish Islamic republic or something like that in Afganistan. And I have no doupt that he was killed at the beggining of the war.

The name "Al-Qaeda" is nothing but propaganda. When someone is reffering to some organization in Somaila he should not call it Al-Qaeda, I think it is proper to call them "Islamit extremist form Somalia lead by XY".

<comment><USER22> So type 1) then.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> What a horrible propaganda peace.

<comment><USER24> Nice freudian slip.</comment></comment>


Automation is shifting income from workers to owners - <AUTHOR> https://www.axios.com/automation-is-shifting-income-to-owners1520934370-ea58ec3f-8e82-4bb1-9fc6-abe039a109f1.html <comment><USER2> Could that be because most automation is meant to replace workers and lower labor costs in the first place? Basic economics in action. You could look at it as it increases workers' income as well because it provides new jobs to workers to build and operate the very machines that create automation.</comment>


TwitOrFit is Twitter-meets-HotOrNot  - <AUTHOR> http://uk.techcrunch.com/2008/12/15/twitorfit-is-twitter-meets-hotornot/ <comment><USER2> please - twitter is actually a useful service (when you get past the big heads). Why cant this stuff stay on facebook :(</comment>


Ask HN: Anyone Else Use Legacy HTML Gmail as Their Default? - <AUTHOR> Because Inbox by Gmail shuts down in a few weeks I just tried switching back to the regular gmail.com and have discovered it has gotten so slow while I've been away that it's unusable. I can't even hover over a message and select it without waiting for a lag. I found HN threads musing about using HTML legacy, which seemed crazy but I was desperate so I tried it and it has stuck
Now I use Legacy HTML Gmail as my default, I've bookmarked the search result "category:primary" to replicate the must-have filtering that the main gmail uses to shift junk into tabs that you don't have to click on. I've also started clearing my inbox on my phone even when I'm sitting in front of my computer.
Am I nuts or are others seriously using Legacy HTML Gmail as their desktop default? <comment><USER2> You're probably nuts.

Anyway, I'm using the basic HTML Gmail as default too.

</comment><comment><USER3> I use "basic HTML" as default UI for many years. It works really well for me, maybe because I don't have a habit of sorting through emails manually, but have a habit of using filters for everything.

</comment><comment><USER4> I'm using it! It's fast and works pretty well. I never used Inbox, but I switched to Legacy because I was tired of the regular Gmail's loading screen and interface.

Bookmarking that search is an interesting idea! I didn't know that we can still sort by those categories while using Legacy. I somewhat enjoy seeing all my emails again, un-categorized, but stuff does get lost in the pile. It'd be nice if Google let us save searches.

<comment><AUTHOR> Good suggestion! I just did some experimenting and discovered you can save searches by applying labels through the filtering option in Settings. Now I have a label called "Primary" that mimics the primary tab. In the filter setup I put "category:primary" under the "Has the words" filter and it worked! Now there is a link at the side of my page in the labels list called Primary that lets me get there quickly.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I use it but chiefly because the regular gmail does not work for me with my browser configuration. For many operations, the mouseclick does not work at all. The basic HTML version at least works.

</comment><comment><USER6> Yep, I use it, although I could never figure out how to delete more than 1 email at a time! Which is annoying.

</comment><comment><USER7> Just curious, why wouldn't you use Thunderbird or something like that?

</comment><comment><USER8> I still don't get why anyone would use the web interface when you can use it through POP3 or IMAP and SMTP with the proper desktop e-mail application.

<comment><USER9> If you have large folders, the web interface is an order of magnitude faster than IMAP. See [https://stackoverflow.com/questions/18553453/what- protocol-d...](https://stackoverflow.com/questions/18553453/what-protocol- does-google-use-for-gmail-not-imap-or-pop)</comment></comment>


60 Days at a Startup - <AUTHOR> http://blog.mixpanel.com/60-days-at-a-startup

<comment><USER2> I expected more in experience sharing than general advice; good points anyway.

</comment><comment><USER3> The point on the company's team is the most salient, I think. If this is your first startup, making sure you're a good fit for them and they're a good fit for you is really important. Consider a couple of the reasons people join startups:

1) To learn. If you join a company with bad founders, poor communication or inexperienced members you can still learn, but there are barriers to learning that are unnecessary.

2) To have a significant stake in something new. If your team does not value you, it's easy to get discouraged and stop caring about the product or to feel marginalized and worker-beeish: If you wanted to build something for someone else, why not just work for a more established company?

3) To build work experience. If you don't fit with the team or the team sucks, it's going to be really hard to put on your resume for your next venture/application.

In short, at an early stage startup, your place on the team can literally make or break the product. If you guys work well together, the product will fail or succeed on it's own merits; if you don't work well together it can doom the company.

Be smart.

</comment><comment><USER4> Would be interesting to hear about how he stumbled on the position. Startup recruiting just doesn't happen the way corporate recruiting does. Does that mean being up in the bay area (or other startup hub) is crucial to landing a great startup experience? Outside of co-founding your own...

</comment><comment><USER5> Which leads to the question - should one strive to join a startup as an early employee or should one strive to be a cofounder?

<comment><USER3> This is a question is sort of a chicken/egg problem. By the time you're ready to be a co-founder you usually are one or have been one before.

It's like being a parent, really: Reading every parenting book on the planet, getting a degree in Child Development and attending lamaze classes won't make you a good parent. Being a good parent will make you a good parent.

By all means strive; but by the time you're ready you'll probably find months or years of being a cofounder behind you.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Am I the only one who finds it a bit premature to start giving advise with zero experience after 60 days on a job ?</comment>


Dynamic Dispatch in Haskell - <AUTHOR> https://two-wrongs.com/dynamic-dispatch-in-haskell-how-to-make-code-extendable <comment><USER2> As they say, (objects|closures) are a poor man's (closures|objects).

The pertinent point is that you don't need runtime _typing_ to implement runtime _dispatch_. OO languages are based on associating behavior with _types_ when all you need is to associate behavior with _values_. Or in other words, functions that are first-class values.

</comment><comment><USER3> Discussion on /r/haskell: [https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/6a5e0v/dynamic_dis...](https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/6a5e0v/dynamic_dispatch_in_haskell_or_how_can_i_make_my/)

</comment><comment><USER4> Its funny because I basically asked a question a long time ago on SO on how to handle similar problems: [http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2807629/handling- incremen...](http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2807629/handling-incremental- data-modeling-changes-in-functional-programming)

<strike> And I'm thinking the gentleman that answered might actually be the same person as the author. </strike> ... probably not but the answer reminds me of this article.

<comment><USER5> Well, I don't know of anyone with haskell experience who hasn't used this basic pattern occasionally. It's just how you do it.

Thjs article introduces an extra twist or two, but the basic idea doesn't change.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Uh, this isn't dynamic dispatch (aka associating a function callsite to its implementation at runtime):

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_dispatch](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_dispatch)

It's just pattern matching and lamdbas. In another language you'd probably do the same thing with a map containing commands as keys and lambdas as values.</comment>


"Move to Applications Folder?" Dev on how he simplified Mac app installation - <AUTHOR> http://www.potionfactory.com/node/251

<comment><USER2> But to get back to the conversation that prompted this thought, the same thing could be done with a .dmg; instead of requesting to move itself when a program finds itself unzipped in ~/Downloads, a program could prompt to copy itself to the Applications folder and relaunch from there if it finds itself running from within its disk image. To imagine the dialog, the buttons would be "Copy" (default), "Copy, then Eject and Trash this Image" (for convenience), and "Run from Here" (or perhaps not—there's no really good reason to include it.) You don't have to include the decision between "Copy and Run" or "Just Copy" because the program is already "running" (from the user's perspective); they double-clicked it, didn't they?

But because they see the program as "running" from inside the image, they might try to launch the program _again_ from within the .dmg after it had already been copied (if they didn't choose the Trash Image option.) Thus, the program should probably check for a copy of itself in /Applications and exec(3) it if it exists _and is the same version_ , to avoid the lag of re- installing on every start. Though, since you want to kindly escort the users away from the .dmg, it might be better to present another dialog with the options "Run from /Applications" and "Copy Again" (to overwrite the old app—in case of a bad install or somesuch), giving them a small speedbump and a hint about where to find their app. The we-already-did-this dialog could even offer to automatically add an alias of the app to the Desktop or the Dock, "so you won't have to see this again."

<comment><USER3> As your long elaboration demonstrated, disk images are a crappy way to deliver software. Don't do it.

<comment><USER4> I'd rather get a .dmg than a .zip with an executable in it.

most of the good ones have a "drag to applications folder" shortcut inside of them inside anyways so I don't see the problem with that particular convention.

<comment><USER3> You are used to it. So am I. If you use a stupid design often enough you become immune to its failings. The concept of disk images is needlessly complex, confusing and way too abstract.

You download a file that is a image of a disk, you have to mount that file, you have to drag the contained app to wherever you put your apps and then unmount the disk image. Can't you see the craziness of this approach?

On a Mac your app is a single file (it isn't, but behaves that way) you can drag anywhere and if you don't like it anymore you trash it. Delivering your app with a .dmg breaks this simple model. Suddenly this app you see sitting there must be first dragged somewhere before you can use it (and you don't even get a warning if you don't). And you have to handle a completely virtual disk image as if it were some real disk. Crazy.

<comment><USER2> So why did .dmgs become the preferred method of delivery in the first place? I'm assuming it has something to do with the fact that there's an HFS filesystem inside, so metadata/resource forks/whatever are transparently retained? Or is it just because you _can_ run programs from within it without extracting them (which is quite useful when you have, say, the 1GB XCode .pkg)?

<comment><USER4> that, and .app files are directories rather a single file.

<comment><USER3> I guess it would be best if you could just download the app. But, since it's a directory (bundle), that's not practical.

Zip, however, seems to become a sort of standard wrapper for those kinds of bundles. iWork'09 files are just zipped bundles so that you can easily send them via email and nothing breaks if you do.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Cool stuff, much appreciated.

I notice that the code contains the use of 'goto' to handle an error condition. Seems clean.

Being somewhat of a intermediate programmer I've always read to stay away from 'goto'. Anyone care to comment on the use of it in Objective-C?

<comment><USER6> In this case, he's emulating the effect of an exception in a language which doesn't support them particularly well[1]: logging the exception message and then moving to a "rescue" or "catch" block which does necessary cleanup.

This is one of the few uses of goto which I find acceptable, and it's only necessary because these languages lack exceptions. Using goto for normal control flow, or even complex error handling, can be quite the nightmare. Particularly bi-directional gotos.

Given the situation though, that it seems he's avoiding exceptions out of habit or performance concern, I'd still use an exception in this case, rather than the goto, to protect myself from probable misuse and unpredictability.

[1] according to this [http://stackoverflow.com/questions/324284/how-to-throw- an-ex...](http://stackoverflow.com/questions/324284/how-to-throw-an-exception- in-objective-c-cocoa), objective-c has exceptions, but they're resource intensive and should be avoided.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> AppTrap detects when apps are trashed and asks if the user would like to trash prefs as well. Very nice solution, way better than AppZapper.

<http://onnati.net/apptrap/>

Don't see whey we can't write a project that solves this problem on a general level with a similar method. When a .app appears in specified folders ask to move it to an applications folder. Watched folders default to ~/Desktop and ~/Downloads and the app folder defaults to /Applications.

<comment><USER8> Why would you want to trash prefs? So if in 3 months I re-download the software I have to re-configure it?

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Objective C or regular c gotos represent logic jumps which are hard to track by tools and humans.Debugging is difficult when code conditionally jumps around blocks instead of following a flow pattern easily discenible by reading the code. If good code is poetry code that uses gotos are google translations of poetry :-).Technically sound , emotionally funny

</comment><comment><USER10> Simple and elegant.</comment>


Uber's react-vis is deprecated - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/uber/react-vis/blob/master/DEPRECATED.md <comment><AUTHOR> It seems from here that Uber has no resources to maintain this library [0]. I hate to speculate that this could be related to their recent layoffs.

They are actively open to looking for maintainers though.

[0] [https://github.com/uber/react- vis/issues/1303#issuecomment-6...](https://github.com/uber/react- vis/issues/1303#issuecomment-611143601)

<comment><USER2> Sadly this library has been mostly abandoned since approximately a year ago. The idea was good but relied a bit too much on manual props passing, and could have used a revision 2. I suspect that is what the library they will be releasing later this year will be.</comment></comment>


New Thomas Sowell interview - <AUTHOR> http://reason.com/archives/2018/11/26/thomas-sowell-returns <comment><USER2> Basically nothing new in this interview. I used to really like this guy's ideas but then I got over it once I accepted that most real world issues are non-binary.</comment>


The Little Programming Language - <AUTHOR> http://www.little-lang.org/ <comment><USER2> See previous discussion here: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11530097](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11530097)

<comment><AUTHOR> Ah, I don't see if this already posted before.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> This is the kind of stuff I come to HN for; a cool language I knew nothing about.</comment>


Medical school can be brutal, and it's making many of us suicidal - <AUTHOR> https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/medical-school-can-be-brutal-and-its-making-many-of-us-suicidal/2016/10/07/faa1a14e-8a4c-11e6-875e-2c1bfe943b66_story.html <comment><USER2> My wife finished medical school a bit over 4 years ago. While she thought medical school was brutal, it was comparatively easy compared to the challenges she faced in residency (she did her prelim at UCLA-Harbor and is now at Boston Children's hospital doing pediatric neurology). 80+ hour work weeks are the norm, and sometimes she works 14 days straight and has a pager that beeps throughout the night that she must respond to before going in again in the morning.

After one does complete residency, it does seem to get a lot easier based on observing some of her friends that didn't do fellowships, especially if the person takes a more clinical job. But after all of that effort, a lot of people become attending physicians where they are putting in just as many hours, if not more, because it is more prestigious. Those are the people that run the teaching hospitals, so it feels like there is a lot of "I survived and it made me a better physician, you can too" mentality.

<comment><USER3> As a father whose young son had a compound fracture recently and had to wait in the ER for 3 hours to get it patched up by a grumpy, rushed, and tired ortho, this is horrifying.

Something really needs to be done about current crony capitalistic US medical industry.

<comment><USER4> I'm not sure that capitalism as such has much to do with the problem you describe, as anyone who ever went to a Soviet emergency room will be happy to tell you.

<comment><USER5> The Soviet healthcare system suffered from underinvestment due to their command economy's focus on heavy industry and military production. The problem in the United States is the exact opposite: unproductive overinvestment due to the proliferation of waste, fraud, rent-seekers, and all other types of interests that rake a profit off the top without contributing anything to patient care. It seems like a false argument to claim that because a radically socialist regime provided inferior care, our radically capitalist regime is not the cause of our inferior care.

<comment><USER6> "our radically capitalist regime"

Citation required. I'd venture the US is more accurately described as a hybrid socialist / mercantilist regime than a capitalist regime.

<comment><USER7> The US seems more of a militaristic-mercantile regime when you consider the way the budget is allocated. Sure US has progressive taxes that are pretty high, but no single payer health care, outrageously priced education system, and few social safety nets - all indicate a low level of "social ownership over means of production" which is a defining characteristic of socialism.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> medical school is humbling and difficult. Being a physician is difficult. I finished medical school in 1996 - didn't find it ridiculously hard, but then again, studying a lot was what I did in my youth. Now, I'm 47 years old, and work about 90 hours a week as a surgeon - I laugh when people say that we make too much. All I know is that 25 years ago, you had to be in the top 10% of your class to become a surgeon. When I applied, it was top 20%. Now, it's basically if you graduate from medical school and want to be a surgeon, you can become one. General surgeons put in long hours for not that much glory - today I waited 2 hrs to drain an abscess that took me 10 minutes, so I got home at 6:30 pm.

The upside is that when I do a great job, it really is rewarding. The downside is telling families and patients I do not have much to offer, and their disease is too far gone. Anyway, don't go into medical school / surgery if you don't want to work hard. No one has a gun to your head. Physicians that pick the right profession for their personality / skill set are very happy.

PS my undergraduate degree was computer science

<comment><USER9> Do you _really_ work 90 hours? That's 13 hours a day 7 days a week. How does that even work logistically when you need to eat, sleep, commute, do laundry, shop for food, and hopefully also see family or friends on occasion.

<comment><USER10> I am nearing the end of medical school now, and I can assure you there are many surgeons who consistently work 80-90 hours/wk. I see it most often in surgeons who have subspecialized and do _extremely_ technical work. Family, social, laundry, food, etc, all become things that you take care of whenever you get a free second. It's very, very difficult to describe the path a person takes to get to that point, but the profession can absolutely be all- consuming. It's one of the reasons surgery is less competitive as a specialty than it used to be - people see the brutal hours and make the choice to pursue options with a more attractive work-life balance.

<comment><USER11> Isn't that a little backwards though? The more surgeons there are, the more the work could be spread out, and the hours would be saner.

<comment><USER10> 1.) It's a very time-consuming and hands-on process to train a surgeon. There aren't many other fields that I'm aware of with the same level of intense apprenticeship as surgery (and medicine in general). My first thought after entering medicine was to marvel at how much effort goes into training a single physician. There is a _lot_ of training at between a 1:1 - 1:3 student- preceptor ratio in an effort to produce very high-quality physicians. So, the solution is not exactly as easy as, "well just make more surgeons."

2.) The federal government controls the number of residency slots each year, through Medicare funding for residency programs. I don't pretend to know the details of how it works, but my impression is that to get more residents per year, you need to convince Congress that it's necessary.

3.) Classic chicken-and-egg problem. Any medical student can go into surgery if they want to, unless their performance up till that point is seriously below par. However, there are many other specialties that offer more attractive lifestyles. So to increase the number of students who choose to do surgery, you'd need to find a way of signaling to students that the life of a surgeon isn't all back-to-back divorces, microwave dinners, and 80-90hr work weeks.

<comment><USER12> Q's re:

#2 - If Congress were convinced of that, would that help lower medical costs for patients or possibly increase it? That's assuming without some sort of tax increase to pay for it.

#3 - I guess this why I've heard that dermatology is one of the most competitive fields to get into - good hours, not as much stress, and good pay.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I wish more people knew and understood this. I didn't write about the suicide angle specifically, but I did write, "Why you should become a nurse or physicians assistant instead of a doctor: the underrated perils of medical school:" [https://jakeseliger.com/2012/10/20/why-you-should-become- a-n...](https://jakeseliger.com/2012/10/20/why-you-should-become-a-nurse-or- physicians-assistant-instead-of-a-doctor-the-underrated-perils-of-medical- school/), which covers similar topics.

<comment><USER14> Nurse practitioners and PAs have it made these days. Great pay and crazy flexibility and job prospects.

My sister in law got annoyed about changes at her workplace with respect to scheduling. She griped about it in the break room, word got out and she had three unsolicited, real interview offers by the end of her shift.

Her requirements were to get her kids on the bus and be home at 5PM. That's written into her employment contract, along with a significant raise and retention bonus.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> One thing that strikes me is that the medical profession is one of the only professions that hasn't industrialised. Basically one highly paid, highly trained doctor in front of every patient. It's a craft industry... It doesn't scale well, and it is very hard to maintain a consistent quality.

Perhaps will AI change that...

<comment><USER16> ? Every patient is exposed to a surface area that comprises several doctors. Currently my father is hospitalized with a failing liver and kidneys. He sees a GI doc, a liver doc, a kidney doc, an anaesthesiologist, residents for each of these, an intensivist.

<comment><USER15> I had more the generalist model in mind, as many small problems could certainly be dealt with in a more automated way. But the example of your father is illustrating my point. All these professionals each individually has to stay up to date on all the developments in their profession. And you hope they were not bottom of their class, barely making the exam.

For complex medical problems, algorithms are unlikely to do it for many years. But to recognize common skin diseases for instance it is perhaps not so far fetched.

<comment><USER17> As a medical student, I bring the AI future up a lot. For some reason, my fellow students immediately assume I mean general AI, where it somehow assumes all roles of a physician.

What I always try and explain to them is that there are definitely solvable problems in subsets of medicine like dermatology. Sure, it'll probably take 20 years before there's any traction, but there's no reason to completely dismiss the idea either.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> The presence, or increase, of suicides does not mean that medical school is too "brutal." It could very well mean that young people are becoming worse at coping with stress. Or perhaps students feel more pressure because of their perceived consequences of their failures: basically no alternative career path that would provide the same standing as medicine, whereas in previous generations, med school dropouts could go on to dental / law / cushy corporate gig more easily. This could be one of the consequences of rising inequality.

I'm not disputing anything here, just want to discuss this logically. I've been in graduate school, and it wasn't that hard, and yet some of my peers would freak out constantly. And some wouldn't.

I will say that there's definitely a hazing culture across all professions in America that's completely unnecessary and inappropriate.

<comment><USER19> "I will say that there's definitely a hazing culture across all professions in America that's completely unnecessary and inappropriate."

I'm a structural engineer. I don't recall any sort of hazing culture, or even a single instance of hazing.

<comment><USER20> Where did you do your internship, and what were you asked to do there? How many hours did you work and study while in school? Were you expected to work much longer hours as a junior employee to "work your way up the ranks?

I think these are the sorts of elements of a hazing culture that GP is discussing. Not necessarily fraternity-prank style hazing.

<comment><USER18> Yes, this is the type of hazing I am referring to. Call it "institutionalized hazing" rather than fraternity style hazing. The bar exam for lawyers is one good example of hazing. Most law grads who apply themselves will pass, it's just a form of hazing for new entrants. Other countries with common law have just as good, if not better, bars and they do not have postgraduate law degrees and bar exams to become admitted. I don't buy the "it reduces supply" either, because of the high pass rates, but even if it was used for this, it would simply be injustice. If you want to filter people out, do it _before_ they waste three years and $150,000.

<comment><USER21> What is your plan to replace these to filter out or vet people prior to learning the knowledge required to sufficiently do the jobs they trained their minds to do during those years?

I am curious, also, to these other countries that have better bars, can you cite some countries and studies that back up these allegations?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> I see parallels with medical school in tech hiring.

They put the students through hell because that's what they had to go through, and they're rent seeking.

In most other countries, doctors don't have an accreditation board. Most things are simple, and it doesn't require years of school to set a bone or put in some stitches, or even diagnose the flu or pneumonia.

Similarly, you don't need a rockstar or ninja to write your CRUD app. Anybody who knows what he's doing will be able to do that, he doesn't need to be the best of the best, he just needs to be competent.

<comment><USER23> I have a friend in med school and his experience doesn't sound like tech hiring at all. From what I can tell, med school isn't hard because of rent seeking, but because there is frankly just a very large amount of things you have to learn in a short amount of time. They also have to work extremely long hours on certain rotations. I was shocked at how little sleep he could get on some days.

On the other hand, he seems to not have experienced the bullying described in the article, so maybe that part of it is the rent seeking you describe.

I do think that tech hiring is a little ridiculous at times, but if doctors mess up, people sometimes die. It would make much more sense for them to go through accreditation like engineers do, in my opinion of course.

<comment><USER24> Doctors do go through an accreditation process: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Medical_Licensin...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Medical_Licensing_Examination)

<comment><USER23> The person I was replying to mentioned that some other countries don't have an accreditation board. I was trying to imply that I approve of its existence, not that there isn't one. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Many people want the status associated with being a doctor (of course some are pushed that direction by parents and some also just want to help people). When you have an abundance of people trying to get into an industry the profession have the ability to only choose the absolute pinnacle of talent. It's the same with being a pilot. Many of them work long hours in shit conditions for years hoping to get a decent route. I have often had notions of throwing my career in to be a Doctor but the price you pay to climb to the top of the heap is not worth it, long hours, student loans, bad pay for the first decade, no social life, worry about malpractice, make it simply not worth the tradeoff for some status and job security.

<comment><USER26> How much longer until programming is the same way, now that we're pushing it to every kid and idolizing tech billionaires?

<comment><USER27> From what I've heard, the vast majority of people just can't understand the kind of thinking required to be a programmer. The rate of application to Computer Science programs has increased, but it has the highest dropout rate among other subjects, which is said to be because of the problem of programming requiring a certain predisposition.

One of a few articles on the subject: [https://blog.codinghorror.com/separating-programming- sheep-f...](https://blog.codinghorror.com/separating-programming-sheep-from- non-programming-goats/)

I've personally found it to hold in a few instances where I've been able to observe different people trying to learn programming - they seem to either understand it right away or not really get it. A Computer Science professor of mine said this same thing once - he said "it's an aptitude."

<comment><USER14> I disagree with that. I think the quality of CS education is pathetic.

I've been an adjunct instructor at a local university, and they hire industry people because they don't have enough grad students who can teach or don't speak English sufficiently to teach. The kids are great and can do anything, but they are stuck in a brain dead curriculum that's designed to haze them out before their junior year.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> > average acceptance rate for fall 2015 was 6.9 percent

But most students apply to multiple schools. Actual acceptance rate is 40% across all demographics. [https://www.aamc.org/download/321480/data/factstablea12.pdf](https://www.aamc.org/download/321480/data/factstablea12.pdf)

Edit: also, 25% of the applicants are repeat applicants. So, first application acceptance rate is probably closer to 50%.

<comment><USER29> Though its worth mentioning that based on your grades, test scores, and even pre-med screening -- many students who _want_ to be a doctor will never even apply.

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> I just finished residency and, based on my experiences, I have three points.

1) This situation seems analogous to the higher rate of suicide in very competitive colleges. Both feature putting people who did very well in the prior stage and then demanding a high level of content mastery in a short period of time. Interestingly, some places a pushing for a 3 year med school experience for primary care to reduce loan burden and get more productive years out of the training. I wonder how this will affect this pressure.

2) I wonder if discussing the harsh reality of medicine - charting, team management, things being beyond your control - rather than emphasizing the 'higher calling' and 'privilege to care' would dissuade those seeking prestige form entering medical school. I think it is a much greater service to have them figure out before school starts and not be saddled with 40-50k of debt that first year.

3) A big transition I always heard in med school was the difference of the trainees in that they value work/life balance much more than the titans of medicine in the past. How to rectify this priority with traditional medical school is a VERY interesting question.

</comment><comment><USER23> > . Fortunately, others are speaking up as well. In online magazines and on > NPR, medical students who have lived through suicide attempts, depression > and other mental-health issues are standing up against this stigma. Medical > schools are now training faculty to recognize risk factors for suicide and > assuring students that seeking help isn't a sign of weakness.

I wonder whether and hope that mental illness will end up like homosexuality in the sense that people will no longer have to hide who they are. On the other hand, I suspect that would be a more difficult battle, especially when it comes to employment discrimination.

<comment><USER31> San Francisco is a sanctuary city for counterculture. As more counterculture becomes acceptable outside of sanctuary cities, more marginalized people remain or come to the sanctuary cities partly due the history of catering to marginalized people.

I think that would be a decent way for you to see a possible outcome in that field too in order to create a conclusion.

<comment><USER32> > San Francisco is a sanctuary city for counterculture.

As long as your type of counterculture doesn't involve the perceived potential of underperforming. Then you're out. Because meritocracy and stuff.

Mental illness is almost always perceived as "Oh shit, this person isn't gonna be a top performer"

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> This is the important part, I think:

"But one part of medical school culture has been especially hard to overcome: the stigma of mental illness. When they need help most, medical students in anguish rarely reach out. Students attribute this reluctance to seek care to fear of stigmatization by peers and to concerns over professional ramifications, particularly during applications for residency and licensing."

<comment><USER20> Interesting they say they attribute it to stigmatization and judgement.

What I have observed among family in the medical industry is a reluctance to use the care they provide: not just Do-Not-Rescusitate orders but a tendency to just suffer through the sickness instead of seeking medication, and to let the illness take its course rather than seeking second opinions and treatment.

Of course, these are with regards to physical ailments. Family has been much less public about mental issues. But I wonder if these same fears and proclivities also translate to mental health problems.

<comment><USER34> > What I have observed among family in the medical industry is a reluctance to > use the care they provide: not just Do-Not-Rescusitate orders but a tendency > to just suffer through the sickness instead of seeking medication, and to > let the illness take its course rather than seeking second opinions and > treatment.

Sometimes the treatment is worse than the disease.

> Of course, these are with regards to physical ailments. Family has been much > less public about mental issues. But I wonder if these same fears and > proclivities also translate to mental health problems.

Most mental health medications are palliative, and tend to make the underlying condition worse over time [1].

[1] [https://www.madinamerica.com/anatomy-of-an- epidemic/](https://www.madinamerica.com/anatomy-of-an-epidemic/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> Compared to previous generations (and the change is quite steep -- I am talking about students today vs. students 5-10 years ago), a growing proportion of medical students have entitlement issues.

Those issues are roughly two-fold : (1) feeling entitled to a "balanced" lifestyle; (2) feeling entitled to help people. The first one is obvious: student want to leave early, they don't understand that patients always come first, that, sometimes, you have no choice but to be sleep-deprived for days, and so on.

The second one is a kind of "Mother Teresa Complex" when students experience uncontrolled anxiety and distress upon seeing a fully competent adult actively undermining his own care. I see it all the time when they try to talk a lung- cancer smoker into stopping for 30-40 minutes, come back almost crying that he's not interested, and can't believe that their "trying to help" means they are now late, and I'm not happy at all.

<comment><USER36> >"Mother Teresa Complex"

Wouldn't this mean simply telling the patient that their suffering is "God's plan" and refusing to treat them, nor give them any pain medication?

<comment><USER35> Thus is hyperbole, of course -- hyperbole which serves to highlight that refusing to allow the patient to decide for himself, trying to force your own outlook "for his own good", is exactly the same as not giving pain medication because it's against some religious ethical code.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> > "I checked the medical licensing requirements in California to make sure I > wouldn't lose the ability to care for patients... Fears were unfounded."

You should get help. But you can't be sure you will be allowed to practice medicine. The medical board will decide on an individual basis. For reference, texas medical board form for mental illness and self referral program: [http://www.tmb.state.tx.us/dl/C5EAB589-0916-C88D-FF94-DE8D96...](http://www.tmb.state.tx.us/dl/C5EAB589-0916-C88D-FF94-DE8D9623C5A4)

Of course, if you don't self report, and practice anyway, and a patient complains, you might be facing criminal charges.

First do no harm. Help yourself before you help others (seek mental help if you need it).

</comment><comment><USER37> My sister is currently finishing medical school at Penn. We talked about suicides in hospital and university settings.

She had an interesting perspective on the problem. She said that it isn't the intensity of the work, the academic rigor, or even the emotional damage from constant exposure to death and disease.

It's the sleep deprivation.

There is a very large amount of evidence that one night of reduced sleep massively increases medical errors. Despite this knowledge, sleep deprivation remains this massochistic macho hazing ritual, which increases in severity through residency.

It's dangerous and unnecessary.

This article does a good job of capturing the chain of internal events that lead from exhaustion to burnout to severe depression and finally to suicidal ideation.

</comment><comment><USER38> My partner studies how and why mainstream hospitals are turning increasingly to complementary and alternative medicine (CAM). Interestingly, one reason is that many current doctors burnt out (because of the conditions described in the article and developed chronic and/or psychological conditions either in med school or practicing. These doctors (or soon-to-be-doctors) find that CAM offers better remedies for many chronic conditions, which the current biomedical stack really isn't optimized to handle. Then when they finish med school, they're in a privileged position to confer institutional legitimacy on CAM treatments. So in some sense, this brutality is changing medicine more generally.

</comment><comment><USER39> I just skimmed the article but is there any comparison of current suicide rates to previous suicide rates? If not, this article is pointless.

</comment><comment><USER40> I love the medical school analogy "drinking from a firehose" since a lot of the knowledge has to be frontloaded. This makes sense since making errors is less forgiving.

software engineering might be closer to "drinking from a running facet.. forever". I know doctors have to keep learning but I always wondered if it was more or less than engineers after school.

</comment><comment><USER41> A company I used to work with makes a program [1] for monitoring medical student well-being over time to try to detect early warning signs as well as provide anonymized data for research

[1] [http://www.mededwebs.com/well-being-index](http://www.mededwebs.com/well- being-index)

</comment><comment><USER42> I wonder if the high salary is worth the mountain of debt on top of all this.

Could part of reason why the education is so expensive due to the monopoly in all the tests med students have to take? [http://endstep2cs.com/petition/](http://endstep2cs.com/petition/)

<comment><USER43> Of course it is. The size of medical school debt is about the size of a common mortgage. That's no burden at all for a deep six-figure salary. It's a total non-issue.

</comment></comment><comment><USER44> A med school student's contemporaneous journal describing his time in med school: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12680306](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12680306)

</comment><comment><USER45> If you get into med school especially if you are Asian means you are pretty competitive. You basically need a 3.8 GPA and about 31 to get into an average med school. If you get into a specialty you are making close to 250-300k+ starting. Obviously its going to be competitive. Its basic economics.

</comment><comment><USER46> "You are grounded until you become a doctor!" \- One chinese dad to his young son.</comment>


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OS X on OS X - <AUTHOR> http://ntk.me/2012/09/07/os-x-on-os-x/ <comment><USER2> What is the point of this?

I guess this could be useful if you are developing software for OS X and want to keep your "personal" OS and developing OS separate.

<comment><USER3> Dev sandbox.</comment></comment>