We're tackling aging - <AUTHOR> http://www.calicolabs.com/ <comment><USER2> I hope they undertake work in Geriatrics. According to several articles I've read on NYTimes and other places, Geriatricians is sort of a dying specialization within the medical field.

"Geriatrics is one of the lower-paid medical specialties, in part because virtually all its patients are on Medicare, which pays doctors less than commercial insurers." Source: [http://newoldage.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/09/even-fewer- ger...](http://newoldage.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/09/even-fewer- geriatricians-in-training/)

</comment><comment><USER3> I've always been confused by Calico as a company. Are they part of Google or an independent company funded by Google. They seem to be sharing office space at one of Google offices and there are obvious ties but is working for Calico independent i.e. none of the Google benefits and perks or is it suppose to be a division of Google

<comment><USER4> It's a separate company, not Google.

<comment><USER5> It's a boondoggle in the making. Solving ageing is hard, and it's going to require fresh ideas, not throwing insane amounts of money at the same old, same old.

The Scumbag 2nd law of thermodynamics is a really harsh mistress (Solved ageing? Die of cancer anyway etc.).

But hey, the digerati elite are showing touches of grey and most of them wouldn't have any better use for their money anyway once they've got the mansion, the yacht, the jet, and the mistress(es) half their age.

<comment><USER6> Are you suggesting cancer is a necessary consequence of the way heat transfer works? I have trouble believing that.

<comment><USER5> No I'm suggesting that the body is a complex system and if you solve one component of the problem, another component ultimately fails until you run out of components (hint, just like software)

Every time a cell divides, it has a chance of turning malignant. Live long enough and one of those cells will win the cancer lottery and take you down if you don't catch it in time. Many forms of cancer are symptom-free long enough for this to happen (pancreatic for example) and we do not yet have the technology to easily detect this until it's late in the game.

And that's just one way to go. Then there are aneurisms and all sorts of other odd bodily defects that will eventually manifest.

Ageing is tough. That said, eat right, exercise, and get enough sleep, and you'll stand the best chance to max out your time clock.

<comment><USER7> Yeah, if man were meant to fly... Every generation has a few people like you.

Anyway, some people like to work on tough problems. No one said it's going to be easy or that progress won't come slowly. There are 7 billion people on the planet. If you can help with early detection of pancreatic cancer, for example, you will impact many lives.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> That white text against the tree rings is pretty much unreadable...

<comment><USER9> Yes it is.

I had to squint and blow up the screen. Then I scrolled down a bit to get a better view and it was gone.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> I actually think that IBM just did more to fight aging than any aging science can do in the foreseeable future. Biological cells are "designed" for failure, they can not live forever (except in some simplest forms). What would happen eventually, I think, is this: biological aging research will progress until some practical limit and we will live until like 150 years or something, then we will dump backup to some future S3 and restore from there to ever advancing neuro-chips. So if I were Larry I'd invest billions into neurophysiology, developing means to actually do this backup. The first restore would be to device the size of the Google datacenter, drawing megawatts of energy and with the run rate of $10.000/hour. That's okay, we've been there before and we'll fix it rather quickly. What's really interesting is what would happen next: let's say I died, my last backup was restored into some device and it costs a mere $5000/month to support. Of course I need to work to earn these money. I don't need sleep, I don't feel tired, I'm directly connected to the Internet (I don't need to type into Google, I _know_ everything Google knows) and I have 250 years of experience developing, hm, C++ applications for, hmmm, Windows. Now, what are the chances for a mortal, organic fresh grad to get a job (even if he can connect to Google directly too)?

<comment> loup-vaillant Three things.

First, I have been to a conference a year ago when the researcher claimed to have restored senescent cells back to a "young" state. This kind of things completely bypasses any "programmed to die" scheme, and gives hope for actual biological immortality.

Second, I call the future you outlined a "Hansonian dystopia", with rich people running at a faster rate than poorer people, and mass duplication/murder in the name of productivity. I'd rather avoid those drawbacks.

Third, if we ever get to full blown mind uploading, we will probably have de- novo AI to contend with, and the intelligence explosion that it will likely imply. At this point, we can throw out just everything we know about economics and politics, and pray the AI is programmed for our own good (lest it turns Skynet and kills us all in 5 seconds —if we're lucky).

Oh, and one last thing: backup is already an option right now: it's called cryonics. It's not exactly reliable (no one has been revived yet), but that's a genuine cause for hope (unlike joining your hands and look up the sky).

<comment><USER10> 1\. I remember that research, but it deals only with "programmed self- destruction". To completely fix the mortality problem we'd need to redesign the human organism from the ground up, which might not be feasible. Kind of "second system syndrome".

2\. Right, having attained technological immortality, rich people could completely isolate themselves from the poor, getting richer and richer (in the broad sense of the word - more experienced, more advanced in studies, etc) and poor would lose even the theoretical path into this "rich bubble". You can't "rather avoid the drawbacks" by stopping progress, you'll have to use the progress to avoid drawbacks, but I do not see how.

Cryonics is not a backup. Backup implies working restore procedure. Cryonics is like removing platters from the hard drive with a screwdriver and putting them into file cabinet somewhere in someone's basement, hoping that they would be just okay. Yeah, possible.

<comment> loup-vaillant 2\. Friendly AI seems to be a solution. Depends what will happen. Either we will have an intelligence explosion, and the "winner takes all" scenario that it implies —in which case all we have to do is ensure the first AI is Friendly —yeah, piece of cake… Or, we won't have intelligence explosion, and I don't see how to avoid the Hansonian outcome either.

(Those interested in guessing what is more likely to happen may be interested by the Yudkowsky-Hanson debate.)

Cryonics: agreed. I wouldn't bet my life on it if I could help it. Cryonicists often say that cryonics is the second worst thing that can happen to you (just after certain death).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> so if Calico is independent company funded by Google then what would Google gain by it? I mean how does this relate to Google's mission to "organize the world's information and make it universally accessible and useful."

Is it a long term strategy to increase the age of humanity so they search more, use more of android, and earn Google more revenue because their search business is saturating? or is there a truly altruistic motive behind funding Calico? Seeing on their website an executive with title VP of Business Development seems interesting and just wonder how would he benefit Google through Calico's business.

<comment><USER12> First, I would guess that part of the reason Calico is a separate company instead of just a team within Google is that they _don 't_ fit within Google's central mission. Second,I don't know if there really needs to be an altruistic motive; is Larry's concern for his own health and the health of those he cares about not enough?

<comment><USER13> _> Larry's concern for his own health_

People died to make room for Larry. For him to try and cheat the system when it's his turn is the ultimate act of disrespect. So no, that isn't good enough.

<comment><USER14> Er, they died because they had no choice.

They probably wouldn't have chosen to do so if they had a choice. Larry, and others working on this problem, want to give people a choice in the matter.

<comment><USER13> A choice to screw over the generations that come after them.

<comment><USER14> Don't you think that many of the world's problems: global warming, pollution, war, and so on, might be pursued a little more energetically if people knew they were going to be around for 500 years rather than 80?

<comment><USER14> (Can't reply directly)

I'm extremely interested in understanding your perspective. See, I not only publicly support this, but as an aging researcher, I spend my days, nights, and weekends (right now, in fact) working towards this goal.

I do so because I believe that, in a world full of Bad Things, death is pretty unambiguously the worst of them. Every time someone dies, a wealth of unique life experience and personality is lost, permanently. Forget Larry, I don't want to see my friends, family, and neighbors die. I don't know you at all, but I don't want you to die. And yes, I don't want to die myself either.

If you think that extending life is selfish and wrong, then to be logically consistent, wouldn't the Red Cross and hospitals and so on be evil organizations? What principle could we possibly use to establish when someone's life has been "too long"?

<comment><USER13> _> Every time someone dies, a wealth of unique life experience and personality is lost, permanently._

\- Every time a person dies, their life is passed on through those they have connected with and influenced. Their influence on the world does not end, only their opportunity to see its effect. And most importantly, gives room for someone to do even more with what they have accomplished.

 _> death is pretty unambiguously the worst of them._

\- Death may be better described as one of the scariest of them. When you are dead you feel no pain. You don't even know you are dead. Certainly, we miss those in our life who have passed away, but they live on in our hearts and dreams for the remainder of our lives.

 _> I don't know you at all, but I don't want you to die. And yes, I don't want to die myself either._

\- I'm sure most people don't want to die. That's part of what makes life so important. What makes us try to make every moment count. There is so much life someone can live in 65 years. Do we really need more?

 _> What principle could we possibly use to establish when someone's life has been "too long"?_

\- When you start to try and reverse or disable aging as opposed to attempting to cure disease.

I don't want to invalidate your work, but are you sure we really need this as a society? Or maybe we instead need to focus on making the time we have better for everyone?

<comment><USER14> First, there's no way you could offend me by anything you say. You've already done me a great service by explaining your views. I've met people with similar views before, but usually they're reluctant to describe them at length.

I agree that traces of people remain after their death -- genetically, in their children, and in the memories of those who knew them. But those traces fade quickly, and for all but the most famous, virtually disappear in a few centuries. And surely you agree that a memory is a poor substitute for a person -- I'd rather be able to talk to my dad or neighbor than have even the fondest memories of them.

We both seem to agree that improving the quality of people's lives, as well as the quantity, is extremely important. Aging is far from the only problem society faces. Tackling inequality/poverty, political dysfunction, war, ignorance, and other problems are also extremely important goals, and I greatly respect people who work on them. I also recognize that curing aging will introduce new societal problems even as it solves others (e.g., rising health care costs).

I think where we differ is that I think these other problems can be solved as well, and I believe that curing aging will, on balance help society more than it harms it. Consider how our scientific progress is retarded when our best scientists die or lose their mental acuity later in life. I've already alluded to the fact that people seem to ignore problems ranging from global warming to the national debt because "I'll be dead before it becomes a problem."

I have several responses to your concern that if people stop aging, we won't have room for future generations. First, it is well known that wealthier people and countries have a lower birth rate, so by solving poverty, the birth rate will decrease. Second, even if people don't age, they can still die from accidents or disease. Also, I think eventually humanity will expand to the stars, although we are far from it now.

Massive societal change is coming, from many sources, whether or not aging is solved (although I make no claims about when). Technology is going to put many people out of work. AI will eventually be created. Methods will be developed to improve human intelligence, enhancing technological development but increasing wealth inequality. Even if none of these developments occur, there is still an increasing centralization of wealth and power in developed countries.

It is hard to know how curing aging would interact with these trends, except to say that I think people would be more circumspect about societal decisions if they knew they would have to bear the long-term consequences. I think the demand for religion would decrease, which would have positive effects on geopolitical stability. Living longer would also give people more time to get educated, which would help with the electoral ignorance that is at the root of so many problems in the US.

Finally, your proposed principle for determining the "correct" lifespan is not a new one:

> When you start to try and reverse or disable aging as opposed to attempting > to cure disease.

The NIH takes a similar view. The problem is that almost all major diseases (diabetes, heart disease, neurodegenerative disease, to some extent cancer) are all diseases of aging. Young people don't (usually) get them. It may well be that to "cure" these diseases, we will have to solve the underlying problem -- that is, aging.

Also, consider that it is just genetic happenstance that our species max lifespan happens to be 120. Why should it not be 15 or 60 or 240? Letting evolution decide our lifespan is certainly the simplest method, but it seems fairly arbitrary.

<comment><USER13> Those are valid points. I'll only address one point below, because I see a lot of your reasoning as being that all technological advancement is a net good, which I feel is often the divide between those who are for and against anti- aging.

As for passing on to others. Its not memories or genetics. It's inertia. As we go through life we set other things in motion. Our interactions with each other and the world around us causes changes in direction and speed. Everything we do sets something else into motion, infinitely unique from what would have happened without us. No matter how small the action.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Disappointingly, but expectedly, the stub website for Calico further reinforces the point that they are not likely to soon take any path that will produce meaningful results for human longevity. They are following the Longevity Dividend [0] approach in essence, which at the high level aims to increase understanding of the intersection of genetics, metabolism, and aging to produce ways to slow aging gently. Ambition here is to aim for an increase of 7 years of life expectancy over the next two decades, a figure given a couple of times by Jay Olshansky. Examples of research include work on sirtuins, that has consumed a billion dollars and produced nothing of use, and other attempts to produce caloric restriction mimetic drugs. The near future in the Longevity Dividend vision is basically more of the same: vastly expensive attempts to alter the operation of metabolism in order to slow down aging.

Genetics is hot, and it is easy to raise funds for nowadays. See the launch of Venter's Human Longevity Inc, for example. But I see this in connection with work on longevity as looking for the keys under the lamp, because that is where the light is, not because it is where you are likely to obtain results. The comparative genetics of human longevity should be irrelevant to work on aging: we all age because of the occurrence of the same forms of cellular and molecular damage. Outside of rare mutations, genetics has nothing to do with that - the same damage happens to everyone. The target should be repair of that damage, not trying to expensively slightly slow the pace at which it arrives.

That the metabolic manipulation approach to treating aging has such popularity despite the lack of results is a mystery. The other way, the repair approach, has the same lack of results - but that is because next to no money is heading in that direction. We have the early demonstration that targeted removal of senescent cells extends life in accelerated aging mice [1], for example, and ample reason to believe it is beneficial for ordinary individuals, but it took philanthropic funding to move that research forward at all. Institutions want to see standard issue drug development and manipulation of metabolism because it is the mainstream of medicine and the expected thing: the round peg for the round hole of regulation. This has nothing at all to do with whether it is the best path forward.

This all further points to the fact that if we want to see meaningful results in longevity science, measured in years of health gained for people who are already old, then we need to produce results that demonstrate the futility of the mainstream path taken by Google, the sirtuin researchers, and Human Longevity Inc, etc, and deonstrate that repair approaches can do far more for far less money. The senescent cell targeting is probably the closest work to that point.

Based on what I've seen of Calico to date, I'm expecting it to be a more publicized version of the Ellison Medical Foundation as an initiative: an extension of work already taking place at the NIA and in companies like Human Longevity Inc, and something that fails to step outside that box. It will produce general benefits in terms of data and knowledge, and absolutely fail to meaningfully extend human life. This will continue until someone changes the approach to this work to focus on repair of the causes of aging [2] rather than metabolic tinkering to slow aging. The latter is a slow road to marginal end results that can do next to nothing to help the people who grew old waiting for them to arrive.

[0]: [https://www.fightaging.org/archives/2013/10/advocating- the-l...](https://www.fightaging.org/archives/2013/10/advocating-the- longevity-dividend-view.php)

[1]: [http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/nature10600](http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/nature10600)

[2]: [http://www.sens.org/research/introduction-to-sens- research](http://www.sens.org/research/introduction-to-sens-research)

<comment><USER15> This comment and some of the others show the ugly side of HN.

Judging a company just based on a web site. Also the company is still very young that it should be given time to prove itself.

mindless contrarianism

<comment><USER16> This guy is an Aubrey de Grey fanboy who shows up in every ageing related thread shilling for SENS, wouldn't worry about it.

<comment><USER17> Interesting point. Wonder where the downvote comes from? Googling the nick + sens leads to quite a lot of SENS-related comments.

<comment><USER18> I downvoted because an enthusiasm for SENS is irrelevant to the accuracy or otherwise of the points made, and commenting on it doesn't add to the conversation.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> maybe we should just leave aging alone?

<comment><USER20> Why?

<comment><USER19> It is the fundamental process of life and is natural and beautiful.

What could be more amazing than transcending death?

How about transcending our own desires to control nature. Maybe learning to leave things be? _That_ would be a real feat.

<comment><USER21> Okay how about I'll send you a contract to transfer all of your property to me and then you'll be free to spend the rest of your life in the Amazon rainforest. If you get malaria, don't worry, it's natural. Just learn to leave things be.

Exactly the same argument applies here.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> I don't think theres much point to anti-aging if we can't understand what it even means for the brain to age.

As children, we have billions of neurons more than we do when we reach adulthood and everyday after that we loose something like 10k neurons a day.

Which is a scare because as people age, they become more rigid in general perspectives and beliefs. Its already hard enough bringing about change such as accepting gay people into our society and avoiding wars waged by old bitter people.

<comment><USER23> Please, this stupid stereotype has to die. People of all ages can be stupid and ignorant and pigheaded and whatever negative you want to throw out. If you read history this has always been the case. But the worst idiocy is thinking whatever age you are is superior to any other. You can find "proofs" by looking at some narrow slice of any age group to demonstrate whatever you think is true and I can show exactly the opposite with another. There is no way to lump an entire grouping of people and say they are all the same, young or old or whatever. I'm sorry people's attitudes aren't boolean they are floating point.

<comment><USER22> You've seriously misunderstood what I was saying. Its not a matter of stupidity, its a matter or rigidity.

As you mature, specially through puberty, you experiment with many different personalities. You gauge your environment and try to figure out the type of person that will be most successful in your environment. All of these personalities are represented by competing neural networks especially in your prefrontal cortex.

But obviously exploring different personalities, characteristics, ambitions, and developing different interests has to slowly be focused and narrowed into something that you can pursue with full confidence. Biologically, this is one of the reasons that when you loose a neuron you don't ever get it back. And the growing age till just after puberty is the fasted period in which your brain sheds neurons that pertain to competing networks that don't pan out as well. There after, neuronal loss averages out to a steady constant but a rate which contributes to a fairly significant loss of the number of neurons for todays life expectancy.

Now if it wasn't already immediately obvious to you, the number of neurons is very directly correlated with intelligence. It isn't the only factor but it definitely is a hugely important factor in terms of capacity of intelligence.

> But the worst idiocy is thinking whatever age you are is superior to any > other.

I must say, that perhaps an even worse idiocy is when someone quickly reads something and responds brashly without actually bothering to think.

It isn't a matter of superiority. Its a matter of evolution. Certain advantages rest with certain age groups. Yes is a fact that the capacity for a young adult absorb completely new material is very likely higher than someone of a much older senior. However, a much older senior has the advantage of experience which allows him her to gauge new material as something worth wasting time over.

But as cultures evolve, as philosophies change, age (and by "age" I hope I've already made clear that I'm referring to effects of age on total neuronal loss) makes it difficult to change at the same pace. Do you think its just chance that a younger person brought up with the same strong cultural exposure as his/her equivalent senior end up having much easier time accepting new cultures, ideas, peoples?

Just because you believe "people of all ages can be stupid and ignorant and pigheaded and whatever negative you want to throw out" doesn't address the serious problem of needing to understand how the brain ages. Its biological fact that neuronal cells, unlike other cells in your body, ARE NOT replaced by new neurons (though there is some evidence of very slow neurgensis in various parts of the brain). And its important for you to understand why that is because its servers a very important function. Biology didn't anticipate such long life expectancy on its discourse of evolution.

> I'm sorry people's attitudes aren't boolean they are floating point.

What on gods green earth are you on about there?</comment></comment></comment>


The US should be very worried about the drone attacks on Russia's bases in Syria - <AUTHOR> http://www.businessinsider.com/us-should-worry-about-russia-syria-base-drone-attacks-2018-1 <comment><USER2> i keep looking at that drone photo, it looks like the drone was hand made in the 70's from a carpenter's wood leftovers...seriously...</comment>


Ask HN: Payment options for online services? - <AUTHOR>

Hi,<p>I'm launching an online service soon and was wondering what is the best way to collect small payments ($1-5) from users in the US?
Premium SMS is often used in Europe, but my understanding is that this is  not so popular in the US - is this correct? Anyway, what is the option that makes it the easiest for users to pay me? Thanks! <comment><USER2> <http://www.searchyc.com> delivers:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=432284>

</comment><comment><USER3> Amazon Flexible Payment System? - <http://aws.amazon.com/fps/>

</comment><comment><USER4> paypal</comment>


The Incredible Machine (1968) [video] - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crbfSY6vf7s <comment><USER2> TIL, engineers used to wear suits ;)

Also, historical note, "Man and his world," a sentence featured in this video (1968), was the theme of the Montreal world fair in 1967.

</comment><comment><USER3> I don't know if anyone cares, but at ~9:15 there is a PDP-7 shown. To the right Max Mathews is shown sitting in front of a display with I assume MUSIC IV on it. This would make that PDP-7 part of the Graphic II terminal made by Bill Ninke. It is this PDP-7 that Unix is later written for/on.

So I believe this specific PDP-7 (serial number 34? It was the only one shipped to Bell Labs with a display before 1969.) is what would later become the "Unix genesis machine". Unfortunately, I also think this is the only footage of it, at least online. Anyone care to correct me? Please.

</comment><comment><USER4> Regarding the synthesized singing that begins 10 minutes into the video [1], I had long ago read that the reason HAL sings "Daisy, Daisy..." in the film 2001: A Space Odyssey is that Arthur C. Clarke had seen a demonstration of a computer singing this song in the mid 1960s, but this is actually the first time I've seen or heard (what I presume to be) that original demonstration!

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daisy_Bell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daisy_Bell)

</comment><comment><USER5> What is the narrator's name? I have heard his voice before and I just can't remember.

<comment><USER6> Whoever he is, he sounds a lot like Orson Welles to me.

Interview with Orson Welles from 1960, to give a point of comparison:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQYazeJA- Oo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQYazeJA-Oo)</comment></comment>


Dabbleboard releases developer API (plz give feedback) - <AUTHOR> http://www.dabbleboard.com/main/developer

<comment><AUTHOR> You may remember we had launched Dabbleboard on HN a few months ago: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=202798>. For those who haven't checked it out before, it's an online whiteboard with a completely reinvented UI ("a digital whiteboard that doesn't suck").

The feedback was amazing (useful in terms of features and motivating as well), and -if you haven't seen the site in a while- you probably will discover that a lot of your feedback has been incorporated. Thanks again!

One of the obvious features is to have a developer API. Dabbleboard makes more sense when integrated with other communication and collaboration services. As a standalone app, its usefulness is limited.

Please give us feedback (either as a comment here, or by email) regarding anything about Dabbleboard. Though of course I'm hoping you'll evaluate/use the API and have feedback about it in particular :).

</comment><comment><USER2> I dabbled away, then followed the prompt :To save your drawings, log in or sign up". After signing up I was returned to /main, with a blank slate and no drawings down the left hand side.

Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_5_5; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.2 Safari/525.20.1

<comment><AUTHOR> That's somewhat intentional, but I can see how that isn't obvious. At the signup screen, I guess we should add a checkbox with "Copy drawings made as Guest1234 to new account".

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I didn't see this the first time around, but I love the app! It's so fun. I love the public galleries and toolkits, and the ability to embed and share drawings so easily. If I had more time on my hands at the moment, I'd give more feedback and actually play with the API. Bookmarking and will get back to it!

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks! Would love to hear more from you (feel free to email zhyder AT dabbleboard DOT com).

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I'm liking this! have to take a look...

</comment><comment><USER5> How do you make money?

<comment><AUTHOR> Don't make any yet from the website, though we're planning to offer a premium version with more features at some point (SSL, view-vs-edit access control, SVG export, etc.).

We're fortunate to have gotten a couple of custom whiteboard contracts though, which have given us some money to burn. (Already started burning as well: lawyers!)

<comment><USER5> Really cool, that sounds great. It'd also be great to be able to export .psd files that are fully layered, but I'm not sure if that's even possible.</comment></comment></comment>


Human Misjudgment Revisited - <AUTHOR> https://www.dropbox.com/s/209xq1dk50gb5ju/Human%20Misjudgment%20Revisited%20--%20Philip%20C.%20Ordway.pdf?dl=0 <comment><AUTHOR> Phil Ordway's talk on human misjudgment:

Here is a copy of a talk I gave at John Mihaljevic's excellent conference in Zurich last month. The goal was to "update" Charlie Munger's famous talk "The Psychology of Human Misjudment" to include more recent examples and the work of Kahneman and Tversky. The best part is probably the contribution of Jason Zweig -- collaborator with Kahneman on his book and leading expert on all things behavioral and investing -- who was kind enough to share his thoughts. A big thank you to him for that and to John for hosting an excellent event.</comment>


Lavoisier died at age 50, on the guillotine - <AUTHOR> http://www.3quarksdaily.com/3quarksdaily/2015/11/the-banker-who-lost-his-head.html <comment><USER2> Does anyone know of a science history book that probably reads like this?

</comment><comment><USER3> NOVA broadcasted a nice piece on him on the centenary of Relativity a few weeks ago. A book was written about Eisteins enery equation explaining who invented each term. Lavoiser is credited with 'm' for the conservation of mass. Einstein generalized this conservation to the total of E and m together instead of each independently.

</comment><comment><USER4> > magnetic healing devices of no clinical value are "a billion-dollar > boondoggle".

Still going strong today.

</comment><comment><USER5> I studied Lavoisier's Elements of Chemistry in a great books program and it truly deserved its place. We traced the development of chemistry from the classical period up to the development of the periodic table, performing experiments along the way. Having such a view of chemistry allowed us to see just how revolutionary Lavoisier's classification system truly was and how it allowed chemistry to really make progress after that.

</comment><comment><USER6> When I was getting two degrees in Chemistry Lavoisier was one of my heroes. Hard to believe how someone in the 1700's had so many modern insights given how he was taught and how primitive all the knowledge was then.

</comment><comment><USER7> Other interesting Lavoisier facts: he used to hang around the imperial gardens with a massive lens using it to burn things inside sealed chambers. This always makes me think of kids with lenses and ants, but the work was key to understanding the nature of oxygen.

his wife was a great scholar too, she diagrammed his work, and translated it and other works (french/german/english).

<comment><USER8> Nitpicking, but he died before the Empire (and I don't think there were imperial gardens) so I suppose it was the royal gardens instead (maybe Versailles or the Tuileries?).

<comment><USER7> Ah, didn't know that was different. Yes, Tuileries.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> The murder of Lavoisier is one of the most horrible outcomes of the French Revolution -- which was generally horrific, mass drownings [1], Reign of Terror (the word 'terrorism' comes from this episode in French history[2]) and whatnot. That is what I think about on Le Quatorze Juillet.

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drownings_at_Nantes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drownings_at_Nantes) [2] [http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=terrorism](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=terrorism)

<comment><USER10> Revolutions are violent, especially when they are over-throwing 10 centuries of monarchy.

Did you know that the 14th of July is _not_ a celebration of the storming of the Bastille? It is actually celebrating the 14th of July 1790, the Fête de la Fédération, a pacific celebration of the French nation.

<comment><USER11> Or it has its origins in both. Especially as the Fête de la Fédération was the commemoration the year after the storming of the Bastille.

It might help were the 14th not commonly referred to as Bastille day and feature a military parade.

<comment><USER10> Try to call it Bastille Day in France, nobody would have a clue what you're talking about.

The parade started in 1880, and was a political move after the defeat of 1870. Today it's a diplomatic event, foreign corps are invited, as well as heads of state.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Such injustice. Who knows what else he had on his mind before he was decapitated.

Bias does no one any good. He was punished only because of his social standing and profession. He did no ill towards his fellow frenchmen yet was butchered to satiate their hatred towards the "elite".

<comment><USER13> Not the only one to die just because, in those times.

<comment><USER14> The French Revolution saw so much bloodshed for so little change (for the ordinary people at least).

<comment><USER15> I agree it was a lot of bloodshed but eventually the change was huge. France is still by far the most socialist country in Western Europe.

<comment><USER16> The major impact was the rise of national identities following the revolutionary wars and Napoleonic conquests. The same population who took part in the Terror voted happily for noted autocrat Napoleon, then lived under kings of various levels of mediocrity, briefly under a Republic before electing the then-President Emperor (because that turned out so well the first time), before returning to a Republican regime after being beaten by Bismark. The current blend of social democracy (though less and less social these days) has little in the way of direct filiation with the original French Revolution.

<comment><USER15> France never reverted to the kind of excesses that the set of Royalty at the time of the French revolution practiced.

And yes, you're right the effect wasn't a direct one but it definitely became part of the DNA of France. For instance the role of the church before and after the revolution are tremendously different and aristocracy never managed to get the same strong grip on France as it did before.

<comment><USER17> Most developed places never practiced the same excesses, though... other than the Communist countries, at least.

<comment><USER16> I think you misread parent. You seem to refer to the excesses of the French revolution, not of the French monarchy. It's true that France would not know the same kind of mass executions all over the country again, but it would exert occasionally a ferocious repression during its wars (eg, in Spain during the Napoleonic Wars) or in its colonies (eg, the massacres in French Algeria just after the end of WWII).

<comment><USER17> No, I was referring to the excesses of the monarchy. I think North Korea is one example of a Communist country that has gone above and beyond any ancient monarchy with its terrible mix of poverty, starvation, exploitation there. And it's still going that way even today.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


"Slight misbehavior is an essential ingredient of creative thinking" - <AUTHOR> https://www.facebook.com/stevewoz/posts/10153764415701282?comment_id=10153764425046282&reply_comment_id=10153764434106282&total_comments=5&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R9%22%7D <comment><USER2> "Slight misbehavior is an essential ingredient of creative thinking" doesn't look like a quote from the article. Is it?</comment>


Myspace previews complete redesign - <AUTHOR> https://new.myspace.com/ <comment><USER2> As a computer scientist and an Opera user this actually insults me: <http://i.imgur.com/7k0bN.png>

Ironically Opera was the one who proposed the <video>-tag which this site uses for it's rotating LP, in 2007. [1] Way to exclude users.

[1]: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML5_video#History_of_.3Cvideo...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML5_video#History_of_.3Cvideo.3E_element)

<comment><USER3> The Web 2.0 craze is leading us back to the _"Best viewed with"_ insanity of the 90's.

And is only going to get worse, with WebGL is not just _"Sorry your browser is not supported, please download a different one."_ , but _"Your video card drivers are not supported, buy new hardware and/or install a different Operating System"_

<comment><USER4> So what exactly do you propose? That we just halt all technological innovation on the web so that people that don't feel better about having old browsers and/or computers?

This is a ridiculous idea, and a ridiculous comment. I'm a web developer and I'm so excited about making awesome things and the fact that the web is evolving and enabling us to do this, and share our creations with the world. People like you and comments like this drive me crazy.

That being said, I don't think that you should just put up a blanket disabled site announcement when it's not necessary (as is the case with opera here), but if your computer or browser is actually missing capabilities because it's too old, that's too bad - you just don't get cool things. Upgrade or move on.

<comment><USER3> > So what exactly do you propose?

Sane and simple standards that can be implemented in any platform without requiring hundreds of man years of effort.

Nothing done in the web today is particularly technically advanced, we are about the same UI level as standard apps were more than 10 years ago (hell, I doubt you can build a photo manipulation app today that can compete with where Photoshop was 10 years ago).

Most of the complexity burden the web has is purely gratuitous and product of how flawed the standards it is built on are.

How JSON replaced XML is a good illustration of what is the right direction to go. Now if for example JavaScript was replaced with something considerably simpler, like, say, Scheme, instead of trying to bolt even more OO-crud into it and turn it into another pseudo-Java, that would be another good step.

There is little doubt the DOM and CSS could be dramatically simplified without reducing functionality, same goes for HTTP (as a recent post to hacker news illustrated).

<comment><USER5> "most of the complexity burden of the web is purely gratuitous"

To think that some people are actualy getting paid to make submitting and retrieving data using web overly complicated and annoying is one of those things I try not to think about. The standards idea clearly is not working if it is being interpreted as a mandate for needless complexity to keep web developers entertained. Instead we hear web developers complain that standards are being ignored because some browser will not support their desired gratuitious complexity. I would say they've lost the plot but I'm not sure there ever was a sane plot to begin with.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Just watched the video [1] in entirety.

One point, you can tell this is a total work in progress/concept, and that the UI is also most likely staged at this point.

(I make this observation based on the fact that _every_ post had "12 Connects", "3 Comments" and "2 Shares". Surely if you put this much effort into production of a video you would change these numbers?)

Anyway, features which I picked up from the video...

\- Photo Sharing/Uploading

\- Heavy Emphasis on Music

\- Insights/Stats for presumably Bands

\- Radio

\- Some weird feature called "affinity" that matches your online identity to Justin Timberlake?

In the final shot, It also looked like Instagram filters were applied to _every_ profile picture?

As expected, MySpace is clearly placing a heavy emphasis on a community driven around bands and music. But, I just fail to see how they are going to get a strong user base, just considering most/all bands are content and happy with Facebook and integration with the vast supply of Band Related apps...

[1] <https://new.myspace.com/play>

<comment><USER7> The company I work for (Josephmark) was hired by MySpace to redesign the site and create something radically different. The interface you see was created by a few talented designers, the video you say was staged is definitely not staged. What you are seeing is what the new MySpace will look like when it's ready to launch. Yes, the site is focusing music - the new MySpace is going to be a social music platform because it has always and still is MySpace's biggest strength (they have access to more music and videos than anyone else), when you have more music than Spotify it would be crazy to try and target a different niche. it has been mentioned by MySpace themselves in interviews about the new site it's a music product. MySpace are not trying to compete with Facebook, if anything their new competitors are now Spotify, Last.fm and Rdio. The very fact you can login with your Facebook is proof of this enough.

The new MySpace is very much a music product. It has a fresh, crisp interface and it's smooth, sexy & fast. It's the fastest and best performing MySpace by far. What you see is the impressive work of the MySpace development team who have done an amazing job at taking ambitious designs and turning them into something captivating and interactive.

Don't judge the site people until you try it. From a developer perspective, I think most people here on HN will appreciate how technologically advanced and smooth the new MySpace is which has been built from the ground up when it's launched. As you can see it's more than a mere re-skinning of the old MySpace code base.

<comment><USER8> I have to say as a fellow designer.

Great work!

It looks stunning I hope it works as well as it looks cause that is probably more important than the visual aesthetics.

<comment><USER7> Thanks mate, I'll pass the praise on to the design team. I'm on the dev team here, so my involvement hasn't been as great as theirs. The response from the video seems to be pretty positive, hopefully everyone is just as impressed when the final site is ready for the public to use. I am a bit biased here because I'm proud of the work my colleagues have done, but it definitely is one of the nicest looking music products out there.

Visually I think it's rather pleasing. It's different and the horizontal scrolling might not be everyone's cup of tea, but screens seem to be getting wider so it makes sense that sites start adopting a more horizontal oriented approach to web design to accommodate larger resolution screens.

I do find it kind of ironic the design team use Mac's and people are saying that the new MySpace looks like it got inspiration from the Windows 8 Metro / People Hub, haha.

<comment><USER8> I think many mac geeks (myself included) are secretly loving the MS design aesthetics given the heavy focus on typography :)

<comment><USER9> Now to track down and murder the designers of Ribbon and we can start building a new UX utopia >_>

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Latest Opera and I get insulted:

 __ _Not so fast!_ __

 __ _Our superpowers have detected you're using an outdated browser. That must mean:_ __

 __ _a You don't use the Internet very often._ __

 __ _b You're at your parents' place on the PC they bought in 1996._ __

 __ _c You work for the government or a big corporation._ __

 __ _There's still hope. If you answered a or b, all you need to do is click on one of the beautiful icons below, follow the instructions and you'll be enjoying the new Myspace in a jiffy._ __

<comment><USER11> Works fine when you "Identify as Firefox"

<comment><USER12> Yeah, " _d - You don't usually jump through hoops to get a demo website working in your perfectly capable browser_ " must have been left off the list accidentally.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> The preview looks great. I just don't understand why anyone would come back to something they've already moved on from to do things they're already doing elsewhere.

That said, I genuinely wish them the best of luck! :-)

<comment><USER14> There's a burgeoning disenfranchisement with Facebook IMO. People for whom Facebook is getting tired and old and for whom the interface is a drag may well be perfectly placed to jump [back].

This does look like they've refocussed back to the roots (?) of MySpace and gone tailored things towards bands/music again.

<comment><USER13> Bands was what MySpace did best. It'll be interesting to see if it can lure any back (or the audience for the bands - chicken, egg?).

Absolutely agree with the Facebook disenfranchisement. I often wonder if FB has just got too 'bitty' - would people prefer something like the super simple Facebook of yesteryear?!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> If this was billed as "FooBar: Justin Timberlake's new music social network" I would have signed up for an invite instantly. However, "sign up for an invite to MySpace" seems uncompelling. It'll be just as hard for them turn around the name MySpace as it would be for a night club that has become passe.

(Maybe it's just me... I also signed up for an invite to WireDoo.)

<comment><USER16> myspace is now a retro brand, isn't it? Those who never left will be like the people who stuck with Apple through system 7.5.x through 9.x...

<comment><USER17> Same with the new Digg.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> They've been working on this for awhile. I interviewed at Myspace about 3 years ago (mostly for the hell of it) and they were talking about the foundation for this interface. Their back end, from what I could tell, was a mess: C#, Ruby, Java, PHP, some ColdFusion still around...

These poor guys were working long hours. There were hundreds of employees, but they couldn't turn Myspace into something that 5 talented guys could make in 6 months. It was clear to me that there were a lot of politics lurking just beneath the surface.

<comment><USER19> Yikes, 3 years? From scratch is where they needed to start from and it sounds like they couldn't pull the trigger until recently.

FWIW, I think the interface looks great. However, I'm definitely not the target audience - I'm not young, nor hip, nor am all that into music. I have however done my share of user interaction and development and it seems cool AND functional, which is quite a feat in itself.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> I'm actually pretty impressed with this both in their direction and design. Focusing on the creative producers was what they should have done in the first place.

<comment><USER21> My thoughts exactly, this is something very refreshing/futuristic and after showing to friends who are both artists/non-artists they love the new UI. Congrats myspace.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> Myspace previews design concept video. I'll believe this interface in a browser when I see it.

That said, it's a nice concept.

<comment><USER23> In a desktop browser? I can believe it. It's the Pinterest interface except horizontal. I see gradients, html5 video, opacity, position fixed. The only unbelievable thing about this video is the lack of loading time to load any content.

<comment><USER24> So now everything that is aligned in a grid is a Pinterest interface?

<comment><USER25> To me, Pinterest interface means random pictures and captions displayed in arbitrary sizes and order. When watching the preview video, the first thing I thought was "horizontal Pinterest".

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> at-fates-hands The Opera landing page is not just disappointing, it's downright offensive.

As someone who never used MySpace and is a fleeting Facebook user, I would've been interested in seeing the new product and willing to sign up and see if it's improved at all.

As it stands right now, not only am I not going to use it based on this stupidity, I'm going to make sure none of the people I could've brought over from Facebook don't either.

Way to alienate people before you even finish the new design. Bravo. JT must be so proud.

<comment><USER26> > fleeting Facebook user

> Opera user

You're clearly not the target demographic though, right?

<comment> at-fates-hands I might not be the target demographic, but when you're trying to revive a dead horse, you would think your target demographic would include people who use any browser, not just the ones you approve of.

If there's one thing I do know, Opera has a very large, very loyal following. Not sure what motivated them to simply discount these people as possible users. Not smart IMHO.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> This looks like a great way to be a social network for bands/DJs/music and potentially monetise around the sale of music/festivals/marketing-music.

bands actively use Myspace still, that is a massive captive market. Not sure why this is getting such negative press here on HN since I'm sure Patio11 would agree that this is genius on their behalf.

The fact that the music industry is in turmoil could make for a great monetisation strategy for Myspace. Potentially with a much greater Profit than Facebook (ie Myspace may capture the music marketing/distribution problem which is still a multi-billion dollar industry). Think Google Adwords for music discovery.

I wouldnt be surprised if Justin Timberlake has an album coming out which can be downloaded through his Myspace when it comes online.

<comment><USER28> I completely agree. Bands have never left Myspace, and it seems finally Myspace will try to really incorporate bands/DJs/Marketing campaigns into the social network. I imagine monetization would come rather easily with this as well.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> First thought: Ruh-roh, someone caught a bit of the Metro square-spam fever.

Second thought: ... Okay, I might be a little bit excited to see how this plays out.

(Particularly like the searching ideas.)

</comment><comment><USER30> The song is oddly appropriate.

      Who am I to say I want you back?
      When you were never mine to give away.
      I was waiting for a long, long time for you to feel the same.

<comment><USER31> I know the guy who picked the song. He was still securing it Friday and telling me he _had_ to get it, that it was perfect. I agree. ;)

<comment><USER32> Ok, I'm not the only one who though this song was choosen on purpose. And indeed it was.

Edit : who's the band/singer ?

Edit 2 : my bad, just had to look closer at the player :-)

It's Heartbeat from JJAMZ

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> Where it says "Paris" on the photo album, its actually a photo from Berlin.

</comment><comment><USER34> Reminds me of similar design sensibilities to Microsoft Windows 8 (Metro). Is this kinda stuff in vogue these days?

<comment><USER35> Yeah. I'm a UI Designer and I really like the aesthetics of this sort of interface, although I'm not totally on-board on reducing the total content on- screen in favor of endless scrolling GIGANTIC TEXT and images.

<comment><USER36> The big thing about it is the horizontal scrolling.. that works really well on an ipad, but not so well on the screen. This is definitely a tablet-oriented design ...

<comment><USER37> Can you explain more why? My monitor is 16:9, my iPad home button suggests is should be held 3:4, and at best is 4:3, which is not as well suited for side scrolling as modern monitors, which are wider than they are tall.

<comment><USER36> It's as big of an issue on my OSX touchpad devices, as I can scroll sideways with the same gesture I use to scroll vertically. But on any device where my primary HCI device is a mouse, it requires finding the horizontal scrollbar and click-dragging it. It's also not typically what people expect out of a website outside of the touch realm, which breaks a pretty primary rule in UI design (don't present the user with something they don't expect).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> As a former MySpace employee I hope the redesign is worthwhile. As a former user I am not holding my breath. I certainly hope they threw out 100% of all the old code and started from scratch.

<comment><USER39> We did.

</comment></comment><comment><USER40> This site seems overly designed. It's so badly overly designed that my eyes hurt. That is why sites like facebook and twitter do well, they have predictable design that prevents a lot of rapid eye movements from top to the bottom of a screen to take in content.

I'll pass.

</comment><comment><USER41> Wow! If these guys manage to rebrand and capture the entertainment segment, that will be huge. They need to focus on being fun and forget everything facebook or LinkedIn and this will allow them to innovate. Also they should hit the under 24yr old market hard as this is where a lot of market share lies for new innovative products and they will have less bias against the MySpace brand name. If they succeed students will be covering it as a case study in business schools.

</comment><comment><USER42> Love the "subliminal" soundtrack of the preview "[...] If you break my heart a 2nd time ..."

</comment><comment><USER43> The site is really sexy, i like it. However I don't think it matters. Social media is built on fads. Myspace had its day, there once was a time when it was the "cool thing". I wouldn't be surprised if a few more users come back. However i'd be really surprised if it was any significant amount. The site, just like Digg, is a zombie. It is the living dead. You just can't make zombies into productive members of society again.

</comment><comment><USER44> The sideways scrolling seems awkward for desktop-use with mice. I'd imagine it's more of a tablet-centric app that is Windows 8-metro inspired.

</comment><comment><USER45> I'm surprised the TV part didn't get advertised yet. It's probably the most exciting part of their new service, but so far they're keeping it pretty quiet (apart from places where they try to recruit new people).

If they can pull off all the changes: metro ui, new pinterest-style network, music distribution, tv integration... this may be an interesting time for Facebook.

</comment><comment><USER46> As a UX designer, I was fascinated by what was actually happening behind all the fast edits and hip soundtrack, so I stayed up far too late last night writing this 4,000 word deconstruction of the new demo: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4572608>

</comment><comment><USER47> Audio pinterest, sweet!

<comment><USER48> I agree! And the mixes feature looks cool. They're definitely plugging a gap in the music market.

</comment></comment><comment><USER49> Blows. My. Mind. Amazing, amazing work.

I wish we could see this level of design work for products that aren't for hipsters and celebrities though.

From a look at Josephmark's webpage, it looks pretttty similar to We Are Hunted (<http://wearehunted.com/a/#/emerging/>) and The Global Mail, which are their works. I imagine the conversation went something like this:

MySpace exec: "Nice work on WeAreHunted! Can you replicate basically the same site with some venn diagrams?" Josephmark: ::shrugs:: Sure, how much?

All cynicism aside, it doesn't really matter where myspace got the idea, the video actually looks like this is executed pretty well. I hope myspace will resurrect into something cool and useful to people.

Congrats to the design and dev teams!

</comment><comment><USER50> Can't believe they spent all this time on a desktop redesign. Should have done mobile-first.

</comment><comment><USER51> Social networking completely rethought in 2012 design language. I like it.

<comment><USER29> What Microsoft would like 2012 design language to be, at least.

</comment></comment><comment><USER52> I am actually curious and almost excited to see this come to life. But one mistake they are making IMO... Sticking with the MySpace branding.

</comment><comment><USER53> This should be very interesting: I think kids between the ages of 9 and 15 have started to see FB as the social network of old people (millenials and X-ers) and are spending way more time on Pinterest etc. And Pinterest doesn't give a complete social experience. The new myspace just might become the social network for gen Y (or Z or whatever alphabet we have for them :)

</comment><comment><USER54> An interesting note to this is that there weren't any ads on the site, which is not a surprise given it's a promo video.

However, given the vertical and horizontal scrolling, there's not really any way to include static sidebar ads the way Facebook does. It'll be interesting to see what they do around advertising on the site.

</comment><comment><USER55> What I find interesting here is that it seems to have gone from generic social media site to glorified music promo site and now back to generic social media site? I thought they were going to buy soundcloud and really attempt to push the music/artist interaction boundary. Oh well, I guess we'll see.

</comment><comment><USER56> This excites me. I would love to see some serious heat in the social networking space, some competition might break the innovation logjam.

We can stop competing on how many people can fit in one vid chat and start actually adding some value again.

Here's hoping there is an app eco-system with serious social channels for mobile.

</comment><comment><USER24> Really nice concept. I liked the map especially. I wonder about the navigation - it would be probably cool to include a lot of keyboard shortcuts scrolling up and down.

Imagine if facebook would suddenly come up with a such a drastic redesign. Half of the users would probably have no idea what is happening.

</comment><comment><USER57> I am glad to see designers pushing for the horizontal scroll. IMO, the everlasting vertical scroll always bothered me as unnatural. Kudos to MySpace for pushing the envelope on the redesign. My visits to Facebook won't be the same ;).

</comment><comment><USER58> Too little, too late. Their brand is tarnished forever and they'll never recover.

<comment><USER59> Bullshit. Go ask a twelve year old who's going to start creating their online persona this year what Myspace is. They won't know what you're talking about.

<comment><USER60> Then their eighteen year old brother will flick them in the ear and call them a loser and a noob and they'll quickly learn.

<comment><USER61> When you were 12 years old, did you go out of your way to tell your parents/brother that you had a myspace?

<comment><USER60> MySpace was an exclusive club for "99-year old girls" to fawn over their favorite bands, or for older boys boys to post pictures of "hot babes" to impress others in their age group.

I'm not sure it ever matured from there.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER62> Did Microsoft acquire Myspace? Looks like the (formerly known as) Metro interface, which is actually really smart, wouldn't surprise me in the least if Myspace got big again.

</comment><comment><USER63> Nothing to lose I guess. Looks to have some interesting ideas.

</comment><comment><USER64> Does anybody except for musicians use Myspace still? Regardless of the answer, I'm still not sure why artists would continue using myspace in the first place.

<comment><USER65> This honestly makes me glad I regained access to my Myspace account and I'm looking forward to trying it out with my bands' pages. I can't think of anyone (bands included) actively touting their Myspace pages but it looks like JT's influence in the company may pay off afterall.

</comment></comment><comment><USER66> What's the new tech stack? Old myspace was asp.net, and I still see response headers with IIS 7.5 and asp.net 4. Wonder what's new architecture!

</comment><comment><USER67> Aside from worrying about some of the UI/UX elements - I think it looks beautiful - hopefully it's a touch more intuitive in real world use :-)

</comment><comment><USER68> Now do livejournal.

</comment><comment><USER69> Looks like the new digg but with side scrolling...

</comment><comment><USER70> Whoa.

<comment><USER71> No kidding. Gonna take me some time to grok this one. My immediate reaction from only the video is that it looks beautiful but far more complicated than FB or G+ or something. Still, remarkable transformation.

</comment></comment><comment><USER72> I'm impressed. It's like rdio meets Facebook meets Pinterest. I actually love it. Makes Facebook look stodgy. Plus fucking 1.

</comment><comment><USER73> Looks very metro.

</comment><comment><USER17> It seems promising, but isn't Latest the unholy lovechild of Facebook's News Feed and the controversial Timeline format?

</comment><comment><USER74> If they are going to refocus on music, they need to make some kind of acquisition to make us care. SoundCloud maybe?

</comment><comment><USER75> It looks like it got a Windows 8 UI feel to it. Well, it looks good!

But is looking good can make an impact?

</comment><comment><USER76> Wrong choice of word on the front page.

They told the most numerous user that she is ""just"" a fan.

</comment><comment><USER77> Nice artist dashboard - Good to see focus on the artist too.

<comment><USER78> Yes. Quite a good redesign.

</comment></comment><comment><USER79> This seems like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic...

<comment><USER60> MySpace is already at the bottom of the ocean collecting barnacles. This is an effort to salvage the wreck.

</comment></comment><comment><USER80> We need a million more social networks.

<comment><USER52> Not a million... Just 5

</comment></comment><comment><USER81> Myspace.

Now does EVERYTHING.</comment>


Submarine Submarine Patent Finding Software Hit by Submarine Patent Claim - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/the-intellectual-property-legal-herald/submarine-submarine-patent-finding-software-hit-by-submarine-patent-claim-3893c7012564#.6g47e4pya <comment><USER2> From [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_patent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_patent)

 _A submarine patent is a patent whose issuance and publication are intentionally delayed by the applicant for a long time, such as several years.[1][2][3] This strategy requires a patent system where, first, patent applications are not published, and, second, patent term is measured from grant date, not from priority /filing date. In the United States, patent applications filed before November 2000 were not published and remained secret until they were granted. Analogous to a submarine, therefore, submarine patents could stay "under water" for long periods until they "emerged" and surprised the relevant market._</comment>


Facebook adds a 'fake news' reporting option - <AUTHOR> https://www.engadget.com/2016/12/11/facebook-adds-a-fake-news-reporting-option/ <comment><USER2> There are some shady sites out there that peddle totally fake news for ad impressions. I'm fine with disrupting their business model.

But what are the odds that legitimate (or even fringe, semi-legitimate) right- wing news sites bear the brunt of this movement?

<comment><USER3> In my community, I could see the opposite happening. Anti-vax marked as true, scientific articles marked as fake.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> There's a long series of experiments on a phenomenon called "the hostile media effect."

Basically if you show two opposing interest groups the same film clip, both will rate it as highly inaccurate and biased against their point of view.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_media_effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_media_effect)

I'm excited for the results of Facebook's experiment, but fully expect this to remain an unsolved problem for the foreseeable future.

</comment><comment><USER5> Yes Facebook did add that feature... last year. Engadget is simply reporting on something Facebook announced they added publicly last year. [https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2015/01/news-feed-fyi- showing-f...](https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2015/01/news-feed-fyi-showing- fewer-hoaxes/)

<comment><USER6> What proportion of users do you think were aware of it?

And, if left to users, considering we have the type of users who believe in a #BoycottStarwars movement, would you really want to leave this feature in the hands of said users?

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Because everyone knows Facebook users are the epitome of fact curation.

</comment><comment><USER6> Stable door: closed. Horse: bolted.

With great power comes great responsibility.</comment>


SQL Server on Linux in Preview - <AUTHOR> https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/microsoft-brings-container-innovation-to-the-enterprise-at-dockercon-2016/ <comment><USER2> Super excited! I really want to dockerize our deployment. Hopefully I get into the preview. I am so happy Microsoft is becoming more open and really showing some great engineering.

</comment><comment><USER3> Be careful with commercial databases. Free or low cost at first and then quite expensive down the road.</comment>


Neutrino Nonsense - <AUTHOR> https://kirstenhacker.wordpress.com/2020/02/15/neutrino-nonsense-2/ <comment><USER2> With all due respect (which is not much), this is complete nonsense.

<comment><AUTHOR> I think the argument rests on this logic: -Neutrinos make muons and gamma rays could potentially make muons, but they usually make pair production. -How can you distinguish neutrinos from muons? -You can't.</comment></comment>


Top Mad Scientists in History - <AUTHOR> http://www.oddee.com/item_96484.aspx

<comment><USER2> some of these are quite nauseating, perhaps a small disclaimer to more sensitive readers is advised.</comment>


Ask HN: What Developer:Manager ratio should startups aim for? - <AUTHOR>

I am curious what ratio is commonly seen in startups development teams (including managers and devs, excluding sales/marketing) of say 10-20 people.  Would any ratio's cause you concern as a investor or employee? <comment><USER2> Stay at one manager for as long as you possibly can. Until they cry, beg, plead, and threaten to put in another. As soon as your hierarchy goes from MGR->everybody-doing-work to MGR->Leads->everybody-doing-work. If you're a startup, you shouldn't need the sets of services those intermediate leads provide in a large organization -- shielding from upper management, negotiating deadlines/resource-sharing with external teams, HR's performance review madness of the quarter, etc.

In practice, I've found I can handle up to about 13 or so directs and keep steering the development boat before things start getting too hectic and I start to drop things on the floor. YMMV, I am not an investor.</comment>


The Teflon Toxin Part 3: How DuPont Slipped Past the EPA - <AUTHOR> https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/08/20/teflon-toxin-dupont-slipped-past-epa/ <comment><USER2>
            In October 1996, after the regional office of the EPA
        began investigating a complaint about one of the company's
        landfills, Eli McCoy, the director of the West Virginia
        DEP, allegedly sent the company a document "to aid DuPont
        in diffusing any potential enforcement action," as Bilott
        put it in a letter to the EPA. After a few weeks of
        negotiation, the West Virginia DEP signed off on a consent
        decree, in exchange for a mere $200,000 penalty and minor
        upgrades from DuPont. McCoy then went to work for a
        consulting firm DuPont hired to help it comply with that
        agreement.

It just gets more depressing from there. I am only 75% the way through and find it hard to finish.

</comment><comment><USER3> I fucking hate these big business chemical corporations. Literally no care in the world for their employees, customers, or the environment.

<comment><USER4> It is truly saddening to see what money, and wanting to have more of it, can to do people. How empty is a life when all there is to it is that?

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Extensive discussion of Part 1: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10045156](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10045156)

</comment><comment><USER6> I am interested in what replacement chemicals have been chosen because I'm wondering if they will have the same problems.</comment>


In Tougher Times, China Falls Back on Coal - <AUTHOR> https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-tougher-times-china-falls-back-on-coal-11577115096 <comment><USER2> Are there any solutions to this besides economic sanctions such as tariffs?</comment>


Show HN: Clip Grip- Add a handle to any container - <AUTHOR> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2143259754/clip-grip-universal-handle-attachment-for-any-cont <comment><AUTHOR> I got the idea for Clip Grip after watching everyone post jars to social media last summer. I figured that an adjustable handle attachment would provide people a fun and colorful accessory to enhance the jar drinking experience. After I prototyped the idea and began advertising, I received several messages from people with arthritis and disabilities saying that it would help them spill less while drinking.

<comment><USER2> Thanks for making this. It looks pretty cool, I just backed the product. I don't know if you tested this, but does it work on aluminum cans? To clarify: Does it crush the can? Or can I use it like I would a coozie?

<comment><AUTHOR> Sweet! Thanks for the support. Yep! Works on aluminum cans. I'd recommend putting it on before you pop the tab. Otherwise the can might dent.

<comment><USER2> Awesome! Thanks, good luck with the project.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


At Facebook, Boss Is a Dirty Word - <AUTHOR> http://www.wsj.com/articles/facebooks-millennials-arent-entitled-they-are-empowered-1419537468 <comment><USER2> Earlier today, someone told me that I've "drunk the kool-aid" of my employers, Pivotal Labs.

Well, it happens that I decided to work for Labs after visiting the Facebook campus. Literally while I was driving back to SF from Palo Alto.

At Labs I work for 40 hours per week. Not an on-paper 40 hours -- _actually 40 hours_. When I was new to the company I found myself one night on a train to Philadelphia for a personal trip. I was bored, so I opened my laptop and answered some emails from a client. The following week I got a mild dressing down from my colleagues for working after-hours and I was told by my manager not to do it again.

If I am at a computer more than 10 minutes after 6pm, co-workers start wandering up and saying "you're not working, are you?". I've only worked late twice, and the latest I've worked is 6.30pm (because I thought I'd broken Golang support on Pivotal Web Services and wanted to be sure I hadn't before going home).

Meanwhile, at Facebook, after being shown all the cool workspaces and the free food, I asked what the hours were. "There are no hours, you set your own with your team". On my drive back to where I was staying in SF, I remembered that on their campus, I'd seen a barber's shop.

It struck me that, so that you don't leave for 30 minutes, once a month, Facebook has a barber on the campus. Someone later pointed out to me that the buses they run have wifi. So life becomes: wake up, shower, get on bus, work, get off bus, breakfast, work, lunch, work, dinner, work, get on bus, work, get home, sleep.

Frankly? I prefer the damn kool-aid.

<comment><USER3> I'm an engineer at FB and I work 6-8 hours most days. Most people with families don't work crazy hours. Most people that do choose to because they love their work.

<comment><USER2> We love our work too.

We just think it should stay at work, during sustainable working hours.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Like similar abstractions, participation is an empty goal unless it is gauged in relation to the job to be done. It is a means, not an end, and when treated as an end, it can become more repressive than the unadorned authoritarianism it is supposed to replace… No one wants to see the old authoritarian return, but at least it could be said of him what he wanted primarily from you was your sweat. The new man wants your soul."

– William Whyte, The Organization Man, 1956

</comment><comment><USER5> (I'm not going to subscribe to read this so I'm just assuming...)

Is this a good time to bring up the Tyrany Of Structurelessness? [http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm](http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm) The observation is: if you pretend that you don't have a hierarchy, then your de facto hierarchies will be harder to see, harder to criticize, harder to improve.

This is reflected in the standard failure modes of agile process ( [http://gilesbowkett.blogspot.com/2014/09/why-scrum-should- ba...](http://gilesbowkett.blogspot.com/2014/09/why-scrum-should-basically- just-die-in.html) )

so, tell me - who _actually_ makes decisions at Facebook?

<comment><USER6> For WSJ, just google the title and the first hit will generally be the article. When you come in with Google as your referrer, the full article loads instead of the paywall'd version.

<comment><USER5> and I'm sure it's completely worth the trouble.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> The biggest thing that Facebook gets right is having respect & trust in their employees regardless of their position or prior experience. They're willing to let their employees own an idea and fail if necessary. Traditional top-down organizations (99% of companies) equate respect & trust directly with title & seniority.

</comment><comment><USER8> Anyone have a non-paywall link?

<comment><USER9> Also, out of curiosity, who votes these up?

<comment><USER10> I can speak for myself. I often up vote for the conversation rather than the content of the linked article.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> _Facebook can be disorienting for some older employees, who feel their past experience and accomplishments aren't valued._

Maybe I'm in the minority but I agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment. Past experience and accomplishments get you in the door but beyond that those things don't matter, the question should be: what are you doing now to bring value?

<comment><USER12> The idea is that past experience helps you make better decisions in the future which is the value they are bringing to the company. I sense that you don't have much experience yet otherwise this would be fairly obvious.

<comment><USER11> _I sense that you don 't have much experience yet otherwise this would be fairly obvious._

You sense wrong. Anyway, I don't disagree with your first point, and it doesn't refute mine.

The point here is that no-one should get extra "rank" just by being experienced. If that extra experience doesn't help you out-compete someone without it then you might as well not have it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Most telling line: "After seven or eight years or 10 years, you're done, you're burned out, you get replaced..."

So it's just another Silicon Valley meat grinder. They just grind the meat a little differently.

<comment><USER14> But they really need to let in the other 95% of the world's great programmers, so they can grind them down too.

<comment><USER15> Thats a pretty thoughtless joke when the threat of the other 95%, tied to the job at lower wages (on threat of deportation) would be sufficient.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> At Hacker News, Paywall is a Dirty Word

<comment><USER17> I have to agree. Why waste space on the front page with paywalled content? I have no inclination to ever subscribe to this. I appreciate that others may have different sentiment, but this feels wasted on the majority of us.

<comment><USER18> Just Google the title and click the link to the story. Goes right around the paywall.

<comment><USER19> That works, but it misses the point. The point is to penalize sites that employ paywalls by taking your pageviews elsewhere.

<comment><USER20> Because it's wrong for companies to charge for their product or service?

<comment><USER21> I don't think anyone claimed it is wrong?

<comment><USER20> > I don't think anyone claimed it is wrong?

click170: _The point is to penalize sites that employ paywalls by taking your pageviews elsewhere._

One usually penalizes behavior they consider _wrong_.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Are there any APIs that provide SSN/EIN validation services? - <AUTHOR> I'm looking for a solution to fully verify TIN(SSN/EIN). Just verifying that the TIN is in the right format is not good enough.
What do you use to verify TIN? Are there any API services that provide TIN validation?
I've searched up on Google and found a few, one of them being https://www.tincheck.com/, but I'm wondering if there are other alternatives. <comment><USER2> I'm assuming you are in the U.S. and need to verify tax ID numbers to be included on information returns (e.g., Form 1099) to the Internal Revenue Service, rather than for employment eligibility or credit decisions, for which E-Verify ([https://www.uscis.gov/e-verify](https://www.uscis.gov/e-verify)) or a credit reporting agency might be more appropriate.

I'm aware of only one authoritative source for this, the IRS's own "Interactive and Bulk On-Line Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN) Matching Programs," which are free of charge and described in Publication 2108A:

[https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p2108a.pdf](https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs- pdf/p2108a.pdf)

As explained in section 14, "Enrolled users may TIN Match in one of two ways:

"a) Interactively – a user can submit up to 25 name/TIN combinations at a time during a session, and receive a response within 5 seconds.

"b) Bulk – users may download .txt files composed of up to 100,000 name/TIN combinations and receive a response from IRS within 24 hrs."

There is more information in section 126.96.36.199 of the _Internal Revenue Manual_ :

[https://www.irs.gov/irm/part3/irm_03-042-008.html#d0e1571](https://www.irs.gov/irm/part3/irm_03-042-008.html#d0e1571)

The IRS allows third parties to act as authorized agents, and I expect this is what many companies offering TIN verification are doing. It's up to you to decide if the value they add is worth their fees and the risks of sharing sensitive information (like SSNs for sole proprietors) with a third party.

</comment><comment><USER3> Checkr</comment>


Show HN: HeartHeartHeart.ws - Mobile First Emoji Domain Registration - <AUTHOR> https://xn--qeiaa.ws <comment><AUTHOR> Uhh... I guess it's done?

If nothing else, I can assure you that you can register the santa-toilet.ws emoji domain, if you're so motivated.

Built in a single 17 hour stretch for a GoDaddy hackathon, I'd love any feedback you might have going into my presentation tomorrow. Thanks!</comment>