NHS gives Amazon free use of health data under Alexa advice deal - <AUTHOR> https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/dec/08/nhs-gives-amazon-free-use-of-health-data-under-alexa-advice-deal <comment><USER2> Title is a bit misleading.

I could be wrong but from reading the article the NHS are basically just giving Amazon an API (or data dump) for their public help pages so an Alexa user could say 'Alexa, what causes lung cancer?' or similar.

Ala. this sort of stuff: [https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/)

They're not giving access to health records and private P2 data (although I see no reason why they shouldn't if granted access explicitly by the patient via Oauth or similar. 'Alexa, when's my next doctor's appointment' would be quite useful)

<comment><USER3> I agree, at the end this is more about copyright and licensing of a publication. It seems a shame to gatekeep useful info behind "Muh copyrights!". Then again, the government could've probably worked out a deal for e.g. a donation from one of the biggest companies in the world. But oh well, the Tories aren't a capable bunch, indeed if the NHS had been properly run there'd be no need to ask for donations.

As for appointments, couldn't they find that info in your day to day calendar? (Does Alexa interface with e.g. Google Calendar?). If my doctor's appointment are in some other database and not duplicated there, I'd probably miss it.

Although, a tool reminding me to take my medicine (which particular pills) would be an interesting feature. Or one that can refill my prescription online. If only it came without the whole mass surveillance/we're going to sell your data problem.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> The data in question seems to be open-ish data that is already broadly available from the NHS Content API ([https://developer.api.nhs.uk/documentation/content- api](https://developer.api.nhs.uk/documentation/content-api)).

The standard terms allow anyone to reproduce this data, providing that certain conditions are met. One of this involves the display of a graphic indicating that the data has been syndicated from the NHS, which is obviously not possible with a service that has no visible user interface, which (partially) explains the need for an Amazon Echo-specific license agreement.

One might object to the fact that Amazon was able to negotiate a custom agreement that is not available to others, and it would certainly be good if other voice-oriented services were able to access the data on similar terms. Beyond that, objections to Amazon having access to this data must be rooted in either a) dislike of Amazon for other reasons or b) dislike of the general principle of open data. I think it's mostly 'a', on the basis that Amazon doesn't pay 'enough' tax, but ends up turning into 'b' as the suggestion is made that perhaps Amazon should pay for access to data that is otherwise open. It's a confusing mess of an argument.

<comment><USER5> C) dislike of any advantage given to a commercial company to collect data they could ultimately sell to insurers.

So and so has a higher probability of having X or having X in their family based on the category of questions they asked about X.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> > The material, which excludes patient data, could [...]

As long as this is ensured I wouldn't have a problem here. My country has the idea to force patients to share data of people in public health care. The problem is that you are forced into public health care unless you have a certain minimal income.

Amazon is building a digital health team under its vice president Babak Parviz. I am seriously concerned that my government would sell the data without even thinking about implications. Amazon basic will be extended by "basic care" naturally.

Google has its own ambitions. But overall governments tend to have the perspective that it has the right to determine how patient data is used. People should be made aware and officials made accountable. And in my opinion even prosecuted in countries where there are actually laws for privacy and data protection. Severely prosecuted, because the damage they can cause is irreversible.

Otherwise everyone should be free to share info as they like to as long as it is their decision.

</comment><comment><USER7> Amazon doesn't even pay tax.

<comment><USER8> Yes they do. Payroll taxes, property taxes, road taxes, etc.

<comment><USER9> Payroll taxes are the employees loss, Amazon would pay that money either way.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> So Alexa gets help eliciting private data from the users themselves? Another great work around to privacy by the UK.

<comment><USER10> It's not private data, it's publicly available general information from the NHS website[1] about diseases, conditions, etc.

[1] [https://www.nhs.uk/](https://www.nhs.uk/)

<comment><USER5> Is the word eliciting unclear? Alexa gets special help for content to get users to disclose their own medical conditions, bypassing any medical privacy laws.

<comment><USER10> People will use Alexa to ask these questions with or without the NHS's publicly-available information. Except if they didn't use the NHS's publicly- available information, Alexa would use some other service like WebMD. The NHS' involvement (or lack of) would change nothing.

By your logic, Google is bypassing medical privacy laws because people can search 'what are chickenpox symptoms?' on Google Search.

Making information about medicines, diseases, conditions and symptoms freely available from a trusted source is a GOOD thing for society.

<comment><USER5> > Making information about medicines, diseases, conditions and symptoms freely > available from a trusted source is a GOOD thing for society.

And this changes how? (You just sent me a link to the real trusted source.)

Making more people happy to go through WebMD like commercial portals that can learn more about the user and sell the data is bad. Adding legitimacy to these is bad.

<comment><USER10> My point (that you seem to have failed to grasp) is that people are going to use Alexa and Google and Siri and so on to ask about general medical information.

Those services will be providing this information anyway. In this scenario (which is reality as we know it), that information may as well come from the NHS with its mission to provide trusted information rather than, say, WebMD, with a mission to display ads.

<comment><USER5> Yes, I must just not understand Amazon, Google and Apples' commitments to providing free and accurate services irregardless of market conditions. If I did I'm sure I would want them to have unconditional license to repurpose everything.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Who Trains the Best Computer Scientists? - barry-cotter https://blogs.worldbank.org/education/who-trains-best-computer-scientists <comment> barry-cotter > The United States trains the best computer graduates ― by far: We find that > CS seniors in the United States substantially outperform seniors in China, > India, and Russia. The average computer science student in the United States > ranks higher than about 80 percent of students tested in China, India, and > Russia. Seniors in elite institutions in the United States similarly > outperform seniors in elite institutions in China, India, and Russia by > approximately 0.85 Standard Deviations (SDs). Importantly, the skills > advantage of the United States is not because it has a large proportion of > high-scoring international students.</comment>


Manning's Conviction Seen As Making Prosecution of WikiLeaks' Assange Likely - <AUTHOR> http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/mannings-conviction-seen-as-making-prosecution-of-wikileaks-assange-likely/2013/07/30/79746700-f94f-11e2-afc1-c850c6ee5af8_story.html

<comment><USER2> I don't understand. Was there ever any doubt that he'd be prosecuted if the US could get their hands on him?

<comment><USER3> In general citizens have no obligation to protect classified information if it falls into their hands. This (and freedom of the press in general) is what has allowed newspapers to print classified material if they get a hold of it.

However going out of your way to entice classified material into your possession is not similarly protected (we'd call them "spies" or "moles" on any other day), so if the government can show that Assange had any control whatsoever over what either Manning or Snowden leaked then I suppose it's theoretically possible the U.S. could charge Assange that way.</comment></comment>


Google: ChromeOS could immediately replace 60% of Windows desktops - <AUTHOR> http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/11/25/google-chromeos-could-immediately-replace-60-of-windows-desktops/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+fortunebrainstormtech+(Fortune+Brainstorm+Tech)

<comment><USER2> The final reason people stick with Windows isn't 99% of their daily tasks. It's the 1% that can't be done well (or at all) on another OS, usually because the app just doesn't exist. And since that 1% varies so much from person to person and job to job, it's not just a matter of making sure an app gets created for it.

The first reason is momentum, of course. Why switch to another OS if you don't have to? People need a reason to make changes. Especially costly ones. Even for a free OS, there's a lot of cost in training and support during the changeover and for a while after.

</comment><comment><USER3> This statement can be true if 60% of the PC's were low end configurations and(or?) 60% of the Windows desktops have high-speed, HA internet connection. Eastern Europe suffers from unstable, slow and expensive internet connections with high traffic restrictions. In my country, the most used internet package is limited to 20GB/mo traffic up/down and after you exceed it, you get 64/32kbps speed.

I pray every day for Linux to replace 60% of Windows desktops. And I am talking about OS thats far more mature, usable and functional. I don't think this will happen in near future, and I really don't think that ChromeOS will achieve that.

</comment><comment><USER4> That is a really strong statement.

> "He also says he hopes it will put corporate systems administrators out of > work because software updates will be made automatically over the Web."

I wonder how will they be able to push updates in corporate environments which are behind firewalls and restrict access to the outside world.

</comment><comment><USER5> Getting ahead of ourselves aren't we</comment>


Ask HN: stupid startup idea, but it works? - <AUTHOR>

if a startup idea is stupid, but it works, is that a good thing? <comment><USER2> If your startup works than it's good no matter what. I still consider Twitter stupid, but what do I know. Tons of people think Farmville is stupid, but Zynga is doing extremely well.

It might not help that you think your own idea is stupid, though.

</comment><comment><USER3> If it makes money, then it is smart! If you think you have a money maker, then go for it. You can always iterate as you move forward.

<comment><AUTHOR> its actually very interesting about what @colinsidoti said about twitter, its stupid but yet it kind of solves a problem, although twitter is very celebrity orianted!! thats why i don't like it!!!

<comment><USER3> I am not a Twittery type of person either, I would rather have people tweet about me and what I am doing than do it myself. Although a lot of people do find it fun and fascinating.

If what you have in mind for your startup solves a problem for people, that seems like something that may be on the right track to make some good money.</comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: Compare your perception of female attractiveness to that of others - <AUTHOR> http://totallyoverrated.appspot.com/ <comment><USER2> This tells me a lot about what you think is attractive. To be honest, only 2 of the celebrities were ones I would consider to be on the attractive side of the coin.

Currently, gaunt looking women, are considered "attractive". Many of these women are extremely thin or have unusual bone structure.

Megan Fox and Olivia Wilde, for instance, are really unattractive women. (I personally like Olivia Wilde quite a bit as an actress, and bear no ill will against Megan Fox)

There are a huge variety of women out there, and from my perspective, you've presented a list consisting only of a narrow range of the spectrum.

No offense intended, this is meant to be honest feedback.

</comment><comment><USER3> I found myself making decisions based on things other than attractiveness alone.

This might be better done w/ unknown stock photos. But I realize it's really just an exercise in programming.

</comment><comment><USER4> Thank you for making my day. I have a long way to go. Long way.

</comment><comment><USER5> Is the order of the selection randomized each time?

<comment><AUTHOR> I just changed it to be randomized based on your comment, and reset the ranking. Before that it ranked them based on average score, which has the problem of creating a winner-takes all situation. Thanks!

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Looking at the results, this appears to be almost certainly the case that the initial order of the set isn't random.

<comment><AUTHOR> After your comment, I changed it to be random.

<comment><USER7> Did you also discard the data from before it was random?

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> This was a fun little project I did last weekend to familiarize myself with Google App Engine and jQuery.

</comment><comment><USER8> I have a question: Could I see little portrait pictures of the celebrities next to their name?

<comment><AUTHOR> What's your Browser/OS? It is supposed to have pictures.

<comment><USER8> OSX with Firefox. I'll try Safari too.

EDIT: It works correctly in Safari.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I think it might be a good idea to do pairwise comparison instead.

</comment><comment><USER10> This was fun!

</comment><comment><USER11> doesnt work on touch devices</comment>


GNU Bash 4.0 released with some new features - <AUTHOR> http://www.idev.in/News/GNU-Bash-4.0-Now-Available.html

<comment><USER2> "The parser now understands `|&' as a synonym for `2>&1 |', which redirects the standard error for a command through a pipe."

This is kinda nice, and continues the tradition of taking the best features of tcsh.</comment>


draw.io – Open source interactive diagram building - <AUTHOR> https://www.draw.io/?splash=0 <comment><USER2> Super useful in a pinch. Even has some nice figures for building network topology!

</comment><comment><USER3> Excellent. Love it. Thanks!</comment>


MSFT is giving cops free USB drives designed to autocollect personal info from PCs - <AUTHOR> http://www.microsoft.com/industry/government/news/cofee_faq.mspx <comment><USER2> A) Another reason I'm glad I'm a non-Windows user (rather than specify my OS of choice, in this case it seems sufficient to just be 'other').

B) I would imagine these devices are going to be pretty easy to detect. They have to be auto-mounted and execute some iteration of the MS auto-run thing (foggy on details here as I don't do much of anything with Windows). I imagine that you could make some good money with an underground app that (choose one or more of the following):

       - Detected the USB drive and just erased everything on it

       - Detect the USB drive and delete/obliterate data in a given folder on the PC

       -  Detect the USB drive and fill it with benign (and incorrect) data

I think about this, and unless support for these devices were baked into the kernel of Windows (which may well happen in the not too distant future), they seem easy to circumvent.

</comment><comment><USER3> wow, more reasons NOT to use microsoft products</comment>


Cloudflare has dropped the Daily Stormer - <AUTHOR> https://twitter.com/mattsheffield/status/897873969897975808 <comment><USER3> Very interesting. Cloudflare have always positioned themselves as a neutral network provider and have not policed the content they serve. Many not so nice parts of the web such as DDoS-for-hire sites are protected by Cloudflare - <USER2> wonder if this signals a more general change in attitude?

<comment><USER4> Yeah, this is downright shocking to me. They make a free speech argument when it comes to censoring criminal commercial content, but political content they're OK with shutting down? Seems exactly backwards from what most companies do.

Not that I want them messing with _any_ content, but it's quite self-evident that nazi ideology isn't somehow so insanely viral that it needs to be kept away from people rather than rightly ridiculed on its "merits". If you're fine with a hands off approach when it comes to people actively conspiring to DDoS people, you should be fine with nazis saluting each other and sucking Hitler's ghastly member or whatever it is they get up to.

<comment><USER5> _They make a free speech argument when it comes to censoring criminal commercial content, but political content they 're OK with shutting down? _

We're talking about nazism here. Nazism is a crime in a number of countries.

Europeans hate nazis since we are reminded everywhere about what they did last time.

This is coming from someone that thinks other would classify him as clearly right-leaning i.e. values individual freedom, conservative economic policies etc. Actually it gets better because I see nazism (short for national socialism) as just an criminally evil form of normal socialism (strong national state, very little individial freedom).

<comment><USER4> Well, Cloudflare is a US company where no political ideologies are criminal, and I'm personally of the opinion that if your political order is so fragile that it can't survive the free expression of some reprehensible ideas, you've got bigger problems than "those people are saying something awful."

Either way, like I said - I was actually _fine_ with them being a dumb pipe. I don't think they should be acting as an arm of the law in the first place, I was just making the point that most companies usually don't make a principled stand on free speech with respect to actual crimes with identifiable victims (e.g. DDoS or even copyright infringement), but then censor someone based on their political ideology / incorrect beliefs.

<comment><USER6> Read about the paradox of tolerance. At some point you need to draw the line. This line is going to be fuzzy as hell, but if you don't you're going to end up with a ton of intolerance.

<comment><USER7> "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance".

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Yes -- apparently they dropped every zone from their account, and ended rebill, so this was an administrative action.

Technically the Cloudflare TOS is written in the normal weasely way: [https://www.cloudflare.com/terms/](https://www.cloudflare.com/terms/) TERMINATION "(j) any use of the Service deemed at Cloudflare's sole discretion to be prohibited" \-- so it's within their TOS rights.

<comment><USER9> This needs to be higher, if what you're saying is correct, CloudFlare didn't drop them because of who they are.

Do you have a source?

<comment><USER8> You misunderstand. It was that Cloudflare administratively closed the account, rather than that the account-holder or a third party did it.

<comment><USER10> Cloudflare also kicks people off when they get ddos'd for too long. Two days ago whe GoDady booted them, and Jester was running campaign against Daily Stormer, CloudFlares statement was that they wont bot them based on brigading flagging.

<comment><USER10> I stand corrected:

Andrew Auernheimer · @weev

A Cloudflare executed says they ditched us because "email on this is massive." So much for an anti-DDoS company. The only traffic you have to send them just has to be in the form of valid SMTP, and they'll kill your site.

[https://gab.ai/weev/posts/10791974](https://gab.ai/weev/posts/10791974)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> When I saw Daily Stormer had relocated to a .ru address, I noticed that the first thing displayed upon opening the site was a full screen notice that Cloudflare was checking my browser.

I understand Cloudflare generaly trying to be a neutral provider, but if the first thing people will see when gawking at a Neo-Nazi hate site is your logo in the center of the screen, it's not a big surprise that Cloudflare decided keeping them would be bad for their PR.

<comment><USER12> On the other hand, it seems to me that minimum censorship is vital to CloudFlare's partnerships and business. It probably has many datacenters located in questionable regimes, and any hint that it performed moral discrimination would probably attract attention from govts. wanting to pressure censorship on CloudFlare, which would be an avoidable drain of resources.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> I wrote a bit yesterday about Cloudflare's previous stance on this issue, which has always been that the company does not think it's its place to pick and choose whom it does business with:

[https://qz.com/1053689/cloudflare-is-the-one-tech-company- st...](https://qz.com/1053689/cloudflare-is-the-one-tech-company-still- sticking-by-neo-nazi-websites-like-daily-stormer/)

So far, Cloudflare has not made a statement or confirmed in any way that it has dropped Daily Stormer or any other website based on its content. If it does, I expect the confirmation will first come from Cloudflare's official blog:

[https://blog.cloudflare.com/](https://blog.cloudflare.com/)

The action would represent a major philosophical shift in the company's approach to these kinds of issues, and all we have to go on so far is a screenshot of a non-descriptive email, posted on a Gab.ai account that _appears_ to be run by the editor of a neo-Nazi website.

[https://gab.ai/AndrewAnglin](https://gab.ai/AndrewAnglin)

I'm not suggesting that Cloudflare has or hasn't done anything, just that we don't have a ton of information on this yet.

</comment><comment><USER14> Personally, I think what these sites are doing now(dropping support for websites that distribute nazi propaganda) is the moral thing to do.

However, I am bit worried that this seems to happen in response to social media shit storms and not because the people in charge of these companies actually just acquired a moral backbone.

Most of the people I subscribe to on Twitter are (American-) left leaning, and in the past when I saw similar shit storms happening (e.g. GamerGate, Milo Y. etc.) I always thought "Good! What these people are doing is awful, so they had it coming." But the recent James Damore thing got me a bit worried. I wasn't fully on board on what was the dominant narrative on Twitter and the like, and was a bit horrified with what conviction I saw people who were espousing a different viewpoint were treated.

I guess I worry that corporations and people now bow so easily over social media pressure that in the future they could be easily pressured to do something that morally repugnant or some such.

Or maybe that's just how society has always been, and social media just exacerbates it.

</comment><comment><USER15> Using social pressure to silence certain viewpoints is a terrible precedent to make. Social consensus is a terrible benchmark on whether or not something is bad. It was once consensus that black people were inferior to whites. It was once consensus that socialists were the enemy, and tons of people were pushed out of the labor market for it[1].

Internet corporations bowing to social pressure to silence certain viewpoints is abhorrent. It's starting with Nazis, but chances are good that it won't end there[2].

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism)

[2] [https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007392](https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007392)

<comment><USER16> how bout we just silence rhettoric directed at broad groups...regardless of who says it..oh that's pretty much everything that comes out of a Nazi's mouth...so yeah..warranted.

Also -- Nazi's aren't far from a terrorist organization should these companies also allow ISIS and Taliban sites to recruit new members on their servers? Because - - censorship!

<comment><USER15> > how bout we just silence rhettoric directed at broad groups

By that definition, we should silence any discussion of Democrats, or Republicans, or blacks, or latinos, or whatever "broad group" you'd like to suppress discussion of at the moment.

An actual good argument is that we should suppress views that may lead to terrorism. I'm pretty sure it would be easy to argue that Nazi viewpoints can be pretty terroristic. But then where do we draw the line? How do we as a society decide what is allowed and what isn't without opening up the system to exploitation by an authoritarian regime?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Does this active intervention based on site content put Cloudflare's DMCA safe harbor protection at risk?

Given the 9th Circuit's shenanigans I'm not sure the answer is a definite "no".

[http://www.focusonthedata.com/2017/05/federal-appeals- court-...](http://www.focusonthedata.com/2017/05/federal-appeals-court- weakens-dmca-safe-harbor-protection-moderated-online-content/)

<comment><USER18> Of course not. Choosing whether to retain or terminate a customer does not qualify as moderating content.

The case you're citing was a very different situation. Postings on the LiveJournal community in question, including the ones containing the infringing content, were being actively approved by LiveJournal employees and volunteers. This situation wouldn't have applied to most LiveJournal communities -- ONTD is a special case, as it's sponsored directly by LJ -- and certainly cannot apply to a web host or ISP.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> Cloudflare has been accused of actively supporting hate groups, not just being a dumb, neutral pipe for them:

[https://www.propublica.org/article/how-cloudflare-helps- serv...](https://www.propublica.org/article/how-cloudflare-helps-serve-up- hate-on-the-web)

Excerpt (from May): _Cloudflare, a prominent San Francisco outfit, provides services to neo-Nazi sites like The Daily Stormer, including giving them personal information on people who complain about their content._

EDIT: Also: _In a post, the site's [Daily Stormer 's] architect, Andrew Auernheimer, said he had personal relationships with people at Cloudflare, and they had assured him the company would work to protect the site in a variety of ways — including by not turning over data to European courts. Cloudflare has data centers in European countries such as Germany, which have strict hate speech and privacy laws.

Company officials offered differing responses when asked about Auernheimer's post. Kramer, Cloudflare's general counsel, said he had no knowledge of employee conversations with Auernheimer. Later, in an email, the company said Auernheimer was a well-known hacker, and that as a result at least one senior company official "has chatted with him on occasion and has spoken to him about Cloudflare's position on not censoring the internet._

<comment><USER20> "Actively supporting" is an inaccurate characterization of that article. It alleges they were _such_ a dumb, neutral pipe that their processes sent the personal contact information of complainants to the perpetrators.

Dumb, sure, but active support? No.

<comment><USER19> Please see my update to my comment, which I think went up after your comment.

<comment><USER20> I don't doubt weev knows a person or two at CloudFlare, but it sounds like he's relaying their default position - they don't generally moderate content and fight court orders aimed at their users.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Free speech necessarily does have limits, obviously, otherwise I could claim my ddosing your web server or my uploading of CP was simply me expressing my free speech.

Does my free speech only end when my actions infringe other laws? Or should my free speech overrule the consequences other laws? People want to claim free speech is a moral perogative, not just some words written into a Constitution, but you can't mix unlimited free speech with the real world, at some point, idealism has to give.

And I won't say GoDaddy, Google or Cloudflare necessarily should be the ones to draw that line, but someone has to. Something had to give after Charlottesville, and we're see that here.

</comment><comment><USER22> A site to watch is Rootbocks.

They have been the fundraising site of choice for white nationalists & Nazis involved in violence. The latest fundraiser is from the Nazis involved in the murder of Heather Heyer[1]. One of those attending has cheered stabbings before[2], calling it a war they were engaged in. His name is Matthew Heimbach, he is a Nazi, and he has already been in legal trouble for assaulting someone at a Trump rally[3].

Rootbocks recently lost their original host[4] after people realized kicking Nazi's asses was as easy as contacting unknowing companies to detail who their customers were[5].

After searching around for new hosts they appeared to of moved to a different domain, now using Rootbocks.co instead of .com until they are able to migrate the .com domain.

These types are to be treated like sites pushing malware, their hosts are to be contacted and pressured before their IP space can be tainted by clusters of Nazis & others promoting terrorism and violent attacks. If clickfraud is serious enough to pressure hosts into removing users then Nazis urging the purging of 'Jews and genetic filth' via violent means surely counts.

[1] [https://rootbocks.com/projects/unite-right-legal-defense- fun...](https://rootbocks.com/projects/unite-right-legal-defense-fund/)

[2] [http://archive.is/ZBOOa](http://archive.is/ZBOOa)

[3] [http://www.cbsnews.com/news/white-nationalist-leader- pleads-...](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/white-nationalist-leader-pleads- guilty-in-trump-rally-case/)

[4] [https://twitter.com/RootbocksDotCom/status/89721410991314124...](https://twitter.com/RootbocksDotCom/status/897214109913141249)

[5] [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15024767](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15024767)

</comment><comment><USER23> I have no problem with this since they're a private company and they can do that with their own services. Dropping an easy target like some racist idiots is one thing... yet Cloudflare apparently has no problem hosting Ripoff Report, a company whose business model is entirely about defaming people online and then extorting them to remove the content. This shittiest of shitty companies that has real-world devastating consequences for people does a lot more damage than some clowns on a racist forum.

</comment><comment><USER24> Where can we report other sites to Cloudflare that we feel they should stop supporting with their services for ethical reasons?

<comment><USER5> Please reserve this for actual nazis unless you want everyone to report anything from PETA and Greenpeace to who knows.

<comment><USER10> There are AntiFa, BLM and even ISIS sites on Cloudflare.

<comment><USER5> As much as I think antifa are criminals they aren't conspiring to kill all of us.

<comment><USER10> They sure have less humor on their web pages than Daily Stormes has.

And dont forget antifa painted graffiti in Berkeley saying "Liberaly get the bullet too"

Oh and New Jersey DHS recently declared them domestic terrorist group.

<comment><USER25> what does humor have to do with it?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> For Cloudflare, this is more about PR than morality. The company wants to attract business and kicking these nazis off will make Cloudflare seem like a good company in the eyes of many, while only nazis will see it in a negative light. Retaining DS will do the opposite. There are many more non-nazis than nazis, so from a business perspective it makes sense. Occasionally, business goals and morals do align.

</comment><comment><USER27> And with net neutrality being attacked ironically by trump, ISPs might start doing the same.

</comment><comment><USER28> This just seems weird given their previous stances, but it's their network so it'sfine they did it, but they have lost all protections of an ISP and became a curator. I stopped using them, and I can't pretend that I would've contributed anything to their bottom line, but I know my future clients won't either.

<comment><USER20> > they have lost all protections of an ISP and became a curator

YouTube, Reddit, Facebook, etc. ban people without losing their safe harbor provisions. Not sure why you'd think it's any different in CloudFlare's situation.

<comment><USER28> Maybe not legally but obviously morally at least in my eyes. I think we should protect all content, but I'm not saying it's illegal for them to drop Stormer.

<comment><USER29> Private businesses refusing to do business with Nazis? Great!

When did this become a moral gray area?

<comment><USER30> The problem is that if the political winds were blowing the other way it could be your favoured group whose beliefs are deemed beyond the pale. We set a dangerous precedent when we outlaw speech we don't like.

<comment><USER31> The thing is, if my favoured group specifically revolved around oppression of groups of people (ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender, what have you), I would deserve it.

This isn't a tough definition. I'm fine with republicans hating "lefties", broncos hating raiders, xbox hating playstation. When hate is directed at non- chosen traits, that's the red line.

Am I crazy? I feel like I am with all this defense of literal nazis (flags, signs, salute, speech and all).

<comment><USER29> What gets me is that Nazi ideology is itself violent.

This isn't a disagreement about taxes or social programs, it's an ideology that led to the Holocaust.

Last weekend's terrorist attack on the anti-racist protest, leading to the murder of one anti-racist, tells us exactly where this is going again.

That's what makes all the "well free speech" stuff seem so hollow and stupid to me--we _know_ what's at the other end of the Nazi road, and it's nowhere we want to go.

<comment><USER5> Agree.

You could also argue this from the "shouting fire in a crowed room" argument - free speech doesn't protect that.

Actually spreading nazi ideologogy is even more dangerous.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> cloudflare also kicks people off when they get ddos'd for too long

</comment><comment><USER32> context appears to be: Cloudflare removing The Daily Stormer, some kind of far right website?

note: not particularly keen to research what it is, just going off what I can gather from the twitter comments.

<comment><USER33> The site is a hate site for neo-Nazis. In the wake of the recent Nazi march, they were kicked off their previous registrar (GoDaddy), then off Google, and settled on Cloudflare. A lot of folks (myself included) assumed that CF would allow them to remain, as they have with many sites in the past. However, it appears that something has convinced them that it's not worth it to be the facilitator of a mouthpiece for genocide.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> I wonder if Stormer should push to e.g. ZeroNet. Which is a cool project I should check out more often. Unfortunately, there's not much content of any kind.

</comment><comment><USER35> Is this a reliable source?

<comment><USER36> No. It's a guy with an itchy tweet finger who wants to make headlines first and ask questions later.

<comment><AUTHOR> [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15031922](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15031922)

<comment><USER36> Matthew Sheffield's belief in the claim was not based on hard evidence at the time, but rather based entirely on two tweets from white supremacists known for trolling. He parroted the claim in the off-chance that it might be true. He's a gambler, not a reliable source.

<comment><AUTHOR> Fair point and I agree that the tweet on it's own didn't sufficiently back up the claim. I posted the link in response to your comment for other readers who might stumble on this discussion.

In my case I did research the claim on my own and verified with other sources prior to submitting, as I certainly don't want to participate in spreading false information :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> I'm surprised and impressed by this. Cloudflare has historically been a company which wants to pretend it's a dumb pipe from content to users, but the content is coming from them in every way that matters -- in particular, every method for figuring out how to address problematic content will lead you to speaking with Cloudflare. At least they supposedly don't pass your contact info back to their clients anymore.

</comment><comment><USER36> Why is Matthew Sheffield asserting this so strongly? Did Cloudflare make a public statement indicating they deliberately stepped in to drop the site? I can't find one. The content of the tweet merely makes it seem like the guy's plan simply expired and he failed to renew it.

If Cloudflare were actually interested in avoiding alt-right dumpster fires, then I think they would also stop protecting sites like 4chan and 8ch.

<comment><USER38> I've often wondered how much of 4chan is actually alt-right and how much is using it as an affect for the lulz?

<comment><USER39> Also known as the Alf Garnett effect. When you're telling jokes about killing The Jews you're probably just a nazi, not some edgy ironic satirist.

<comment><USER10> Joke policing is absolutely wrong and one of best indicators at judging how authoritarian people are. Everyone who supports this or pretends that jokes are serious hate speech with intention to suppress someones right for free speech is worst kind of human.

<comment><USER38> It's not joke policing to assume some values of an individual based on their speech. It may make people incorrect, but as long as they are making personal decisions, comedians alienating audiences is nothing new. As long as the comedian isn't forced (actually forced, not just incentivized by poor reactions) to stop telling the joke, no censorhip is taking place, and the problem is self correcting.

<comment><USER10> Many consider whole Daily Stormer webpage as satire. Majority of their readers read it for its creative but controversial humor.

Twitter sat ladies that cry bullied this big IT companies to deny service for Daily Stormer caused webpage to not be accessible. People who enjoyed this style of humor cant enjoy it anymore. This is very definition of censorship.

Cat ladies not visiting web page would be enough to not hurt their feelings. Them going out of their way to prevent others to enjoy this is very authoritarian and one of reasons why tragedies happen.

<comment><USER38> > Twitter sat ladies that cry bullied this big IT companies to deny service > for Daily Stormer caused webpage to not be accessible.

It's no different than a club cancelling a comedy booking because they don't want that type of comedy at their club, because they don't think their patrons will support it.

> People who enjoyed this style of humor cant enjoy it anymore. This is very > definition of censorship.

No, it's not. They can go somewhere else. They can find a different provider, or publish a pamphlet or go to a street corner. You know what it means as a comedian when you can't book a club? Not enough people are interested in what you have to say to make it worthwhile to give you a pulpit, or at least not enough people to offset the distaste you cause in others. That's not censorship, that's social pressure.

Censorship is about _ability_ and _rights_. Nobody is restricting the ability or rights of the daily stormer. It's still legal to post what they want, and they have avenues to do so (with enough money, they could become their own host). Freedom of speech is just as much about letting the daily stormer say what they want as it is letting cloudfare and others decide they don't want to support it.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


(Un)Reasonable Attorney Fees? - <AUTHOR>

I know each case is different but what are the approximate number of billed hours for small startups (e.g., funding rounds, angel investment).<p>And especially the sale of a company <comment><USER2> This is way too variable to estimate. Hours for the sale of a company: typically 20-2000 maybe?

For my current angel funding round, we've probably incurred somewhere around 30-50 hours of legal time.

Is there a more specific question you're driving at?

<comment><AUTHOR> I feel misled. The number of hours I was billed (130) for a relatively straightforward sale was way higher than the estimate I was initially quoted.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I think when people were discussing this: <http://www.ycombinator.com/seriesaa.html>

most people were saying figures in the 25-50K range.

</comment><comment><USER4> Incroporation - $500 to $5000 (depending on how fancy a law firm you want to have).</comment>


CoSQL: SQL and noSQL are really just two sides of the same coin - <AUTHOR> http://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2011/4/106584-a-co-relational-model-of-data-for-large-shared-data-banks/fulltext <comment><USER2> This article turned out better than I thought it would.

Here's why: "In this article we present a mathematical data model for the most common noSQL databases—namely, key/value relationships—and demonstrate that this data model is the mathematical dual of SQL's relational data model of foreign-/primary-key relationships."

<comment><USER3> Seeing the author immediately increased my expectations: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_Meijer_(computer_scientist...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_Meijer_\(computer_scientist\))

<comment><USER4> Erik Meijer gave a presentation on this during YOW 2010, in Melbourne. The ideas are very deep, and I hope they will be taken on board by the IT industry and find practical applications. It would be nice to think that at YOW we witnessed part of the birth of an idea, that will revolutionise the way think about data storage.

<comment><USER5> That was a fantastic conference. I enjoyed Erik's presentations. Guy Steele's lecture was also very good, but his keynote with Richard P. Gabriel was incredible. He's actually done the 50 in 50 keynote before: <http://blip.tv/file/1472720>

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I actually see this article as a good sign. This kind of article could set the tone for the beginning of sane discussion about the SQL/coSQL ecosystem and how to move forward in developing a shared toolset for developers.

</comment><comment><USER7> the author mentions Redis but fails to analyze the peculiar data model of Redis that I think can't be considered mathematically dual with SQL's relational model... unless you want to use every row of a table as a node with fields for pointers and build skip lists out of that...

The fact that Redis is analyzed as a KV store is already a big enough proof by the over simplification that the author is performing here, in the name of proving his point.

<comment><USER8> @antirez as in any mathematical proof the most generic case is considered first. If X is a special case or is exposing special corner scenarios, I'd assume that could be covered by extension proofs.

I'm not saying Erik's article is bullet proof. But it offers a very interesting perspective on two data models that were considered conflicting.

<comment><USER9> But should Redis really be part of that list? I feel like the strongest point of Redis is that it realistically allows devs to forget about any complex relational models living outside of the code logic, like the ones referred in the article. Other "NoSql" databases _look_ like Redis, but the huge difference with the latter are its atomic operations on simple data structures (append, inc, push, intersect, union …). Redis is the only database that I know of that safely allows the developer to deal with relational data in such a straightforward, close-to-programming manner, and still talk with it at a pretty low level (without having to use mapper abstractions). The "data structure server" description probably serves the project better than "key- value store" in that sense.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I'm amazed how people tend to overcomplicate simple things. Isn't the noSQL algebra is just relational algebra without the Cartesian product operator?

<comment><USER11> Huh? I'm going to need more than hand waving to get that assertion. Please expand.

<comment><USER10> Continuation of the previous post... Why wouldn't the noSQL providers use SQL as a starting point? Take SQL standard, relax transactional requirements from ACID to BASE, add functions for searching in columns, add a note that execution of queries with Cartesian product may be extremely slow (with Map Reduce or other parallelization technology. Let the database vendors compete in that field). I recommend book "Data-Intensive Text Processing with MapReduce" by Jimmy Lin and Chris Dyer book for further reading on how to implement relational joins with MapReduce. DML and DDL will be changed substantially, though. Drop or relax relational constraints, different table definition etc. As for coSQL, it looks to me like it introduces Codasyl-syle queries instead of relational algebra.</comment></comment></comment>


Dropbox enables effortless upload to OurDoings - <AUTHOR> http://ourdoings.com/2009-09-08

<comment><USER2> "Instead, share a Dropbox folder with email@example.com giving it a unique folder name like unlisted-3v5vhkab"

What's this about? Human uuid generation?

<comment><AUTHOR> The site suggests a unique name because non-unique names require more manual setup. Just name it something other than "ourdoings".

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Ehh, how about making your link to dropbox work? And you do know that dropbox has an affiliate program, right? Ever think about using it perhaps?

What about a two way sync - emphasis that your pics are safe on your hard drive, on dropbox as well as on ourdoings.

You may also want to think a bit about the general philosophy of online photos - with things like dropbox available, people will store their photos in such a service. But they still need a slick photo viewer, which dropbox does not have. Maybe you should also point out that your site is like a viewer for your dropbox photos.

By the way, good work on ourdoings - I really didn't think it would still be around at this point in time.

<comment><AUTHOR> Which link didn't work? I definitely want to fix it.

And thanks. I'm definitely serious about building something that will last.

<comment><USER3> The link that goes to dropbox.

<comment><AUTHOR> There's a JPG of the dropbox logo, which (this being a photo-sharing site) goes to a page just for that image. I don't see anything else that looks like it was intended to be a link. The instructions say to go to your own "upload photos" page and find your own link with instructions.

<comment><USER3> Yikes, you ARE out of touch.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah, sometimes. I took out the image and made Try It a link. Hope that's better.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


"Send Parsons Immediately" - <AUTHOR> http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/without-chick-parsons-General-MacArthur-Never-Made-Return-Philippines-180964406/ <comment><USER2> Makes me wonder if the author of Cryptonomicon had heard of Parsons while researching for his book.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Title came from [https://thebrowser.com/share- link/87jB](https://thebrowser.com/share-link/87jB).

<comment><USER3> The title is actually a quote of a wire from MacArthur to D.C.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Great but sad, read. This part reminded me of the Japanese apologists who pop up on any thread that touches on Hiroshima denying that the Japanese military committed mass atrocities.

"The death toll from the Battle of Manila was horrific: more than 100,000 Filipinos, the majority of them civilians; ...

Parsons ventured into the city soon after MacArthur finally dislodged the Japanese, on March 4. "Manila is finished, completely demolished," he wrote in a letter to Travis Ingham. But he had one last mission: finding his mother-in- law.

... When he had gone in search of a good friend in Manila, Carlos Perez Rubio, he found a gruesome scene: "twenty-two bodies—the entire family including women and children...liquidated in a most brutal fashion. Bayonets mostly."

... Before she was tossed into a mass grave with the others, Blanche Jurika had been tortured and beheaded. "If she could have just lasted another three months," her son-in-law recalled, "she'd have been all right."

<comment><USER5> Germany invaded Poland on the 45th anniversary of the Japanese occupation of Korea. (Maybe not exactly, but close.) Japan had been a menace in the East Pacific since the 1890s, formed an anti-Russia alliance with the UK, used WWI as an excuse to invade German islands in the Pacific, and was trying to invade further into China during the time between World Wars in Europe.

<comment><USER6> _> Germany invaded Poland on the 45th anniversary of the Japanese occupation of Korea. (Maybe not exactly, but close.)_

1) The Japanese-American Battle of Manila came on the 46th anniversary of the Philippine-American Battle of Manila (exactly), the first battle of the Philippine-American war of colonization that saw widespread, sanctioned US atrocities against the native population to the tune of hundreds of thousands of civilians dead.

2) The Japanese occupation of Korea was only made possible by the wholehearted support and abetting of the United States. President Theodore Roosevelt was awarded a Nobel Peace Prize for facilitating this annexation and personally ordered the striking-out of Korea as a nation from White House records.[1]

 _> Japan had been a menace in the East Pacific since the 1890s, formed an anti-Russia alliance with the UK, used WWI as an excuse to invade German islands in the Pacific, and was trying to invade further into China during the time between World Wars in Europe._

Japan was considered a menace in the East Pacific only when it threatened territories already conquered through Western imperialist expansion by the likes of Britain, Russia, and the United States. It is not any more abhorrent that Japan invaded German islands in the Pacific, than that Germany had made claims to Pacific islands in the first place. Japan's campaign of brutal spread and subjugation was not some uniquely objectionable aberration, it was a direct application of lessons learned from experienced masters; Japan was a late adopter of a well-worn and broadly used template of colonialist conquest.

[1]: [http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/06/opinion/06bradley.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/06/opinion/06bradley.html)

<comment><USER4> 1) The US didn't kill more than 20,000 Filipinos, the rest died from Cholera. 2) Helping negotiate a peace treaty is now an act of violence?

I would never say the millions the Japanese murdered, tortured, raped and enslaved during their WW2 expansion made them unique in history. I would say that the insanity of the military leadership that ordered that holocaust was also the reason for two nuclear bombs.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Let's Compile like it's 1992 (2014) - <AUTHOR> http://fabiensanglard.net/Compile_Like_Its_1992/index.php <comment><USER2> Previously: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13750097](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13750097)

</comment><comment><USER3> Grab a copy of Borland's IDE [0] while you're at it. Experience what was normal and good all those years ago, and marvel at how little distance we've come.

[0] [https://winworldpc.com/product/borland-c- builder/6x](https://winworldpc.com/product/borland-c-builder/6x)

<comment><USER4> Borland's IDE has a huge nostalgia factor for me, it was the first IDE that made it so I didn't have to think about linking and the rest of the toolchain, I could just hit 'Build'.

But while most of our tooling for Software Engineering is pretty archaic. I think there is a tooling revolution going on now, especially with new languages: autoformatters, graduation typing, memory ownership checkers, etc. I feel like as an industry we are slowly starting to take tooling seriously.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> That brings back memories - I started my programming career in 1992 and Borland was one of the compilers we used back then, Zortech C++ being the other one.

</comment><comment><USER6> Hah. Borland 3.1.Don't remember TP 3.5?

<comment><USER7> I remember 3.0, 5.5, 6.0, 7.0 for MS-DOS and 1.5 for Windows, those are the ones I used, before switching full time to C++ as my next love in programming languages. :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> > mkdir a

I'm still smiling.

</comment><comment><USER9> Please add (2014) to the title.

<comment><USER10> Did the way compiling was done in 1992 change since 2014?

<comment><USER11> Probably not but HN has a habit of putting the year in the title of older content. Makes sense to keep it up, no?</comment></comment></comment>


This Is Why Poor People's Bad Decisions Make Perfect Sense - <AUTHOR> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/linda-tirado/why-poor-peoples-bad-decisions-make-perfect-sense_b_4326233.html

<comment><USER2> It was also not explained why this person is going to school. Why are they going to school? I would assume that if they were making the choice to put in the work for school they have not completely given up on a better life in which case I would expect them to at least consider making some other better decisions.

</comment><comment><USER3> Looks like she just wrote a book, "Hand to Mouth: Living in Bootstrap America" that will be available in early October: [http://www.amazon.com/Hand-Mouth- Living-Bootstrap-America/dp...](http://www.amazon.com/Hand-Mouth-Living- Bootstrap-America/dp/0399171983/)

Also, shouldn't this article have a (2013) tag?

</comment><comment><USER4> No one ever explains why having children in poverty makes perfect sense. It's not that unavoidable either.

<comment><USER3> She actually explains it in the article:

\- The nearest Planned Parenthood is 3 hours away

\- The college she attends has free condoms, but most people in poverty aren't college students

\- Low-cost medical clinics/clinics with sliding scales still have a co-pay

\- Sleeping with someone makes you feel valued and is free way to make yourself feel better, if only for an hour

The last point is something that many middle class/rich people do as well -- sleeping with people to feel valued -- but most of them are able to purchase birth control methods and/or easily access free birth control (like the condom jar).

<comment><USER4> You don't put it in if you don't want babies. People equate this with not having any sex, which is simply inane.

<comment><USER5> So every time you "put it in," you are trying to make a baby? Poor people also know about the different kinds of sex acts available to humans, I'm not sure if you're a virgin, trolling, or just don't understand how human biology works.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Domain Management? - <AUTHOR>

What do people recommend as the best place for domain registration and management?
I have about 10 domains for various projects I am working on but I am having trouble getting them all to one place.
There are some .com and .com.au predominantly.
Can anyone recommend a good provider?
I currently use Namescout and Zoneedit. <comment><USER2> I like www.namesarecheap.com - I have had great success with them over the years and still use them as my primary registrar. I have also used their hosting in the past and it has been reliable.

</comment><comment><USER3> I use godaddy for my 200 or so domains. I've tried about 10-15 registrars through the years and GD has the best features for what I want. They are also one of the cheapest.

</comment><comment><USER4> <http://dyndns.org>

</comment><comment><USER5> you can use my service at everydns.net.</comment>


Pirate Party may gain seat in EU Parliament - <AUTHOR> http://torrentfreak.com/swedish-pirate-party-heading-for-eu-parliament-090430/

<comment><USER2> I'm based in Islington, and have a background in copyright and internet regulation campaigns. By complete coincidence - also have a missing left eye ('maties!').

I've been unable to find details for any UK organisation (there appears to have been one but it may be defunct?) but am interested in getting one set up, hopefully in time for UK elections.

If any British readers are interested - 'mailto:%s'%os.sep.join( ['craig', 'cowoh', 'org'] ) I'm doing manual spam processing for the moment as part of a project so be careful with subject lines :)

<comment><USER3> Try talking to the Open Rights Group <http://www.openrightsgroup.org/> \- they have an event on in Clerkenwell this evening - <http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/2294908/>

<comment><USER2> Thanks for the link. It was sold out, and I went to the pub afterwards but had no way of identifying the group. But with the link I can get in touch with them.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> No. In the EU Parliament. The election in Sweden is in September 2010.

And this was just one poll.

</comment><comment><USER5> I'm happy to be living in Germany right now, for in my home country (also EU member-state)there is no significant pirate party. vote++

Like most single-issue parties, I'm a bit sceptical about their voting intentions on other issues once they do have a seat, but it is important to have dissenting voices in a healthy democracy.

</comment><comment><USER6> Makes me wish there's US equivalent political organization to the pirate party. or is there?

<comment><USER7> There is.

<http://pirate-party.us/>

</comment></comment><comment> patrickg-zill Isn't there a correlation between number of pirates, and global warming, according to the guy who thought up the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

And sure enough, we have more pirates and are seeing a small period of cooling...</comment>


Does your OpenID provider work for me? - <AUTHOR>

I had an issue this past week with LiveJournal and the joid OpenID library for Java.  I'm wondering if the nuances of any other providers will cause issues for me.  If you are an OpenID user, could you try clickpass registration/login on my site?  Please comment here with who your OpenID provider is and whether it worked.  If you log in successfully the "Personal Info" page has a "Forget I exist..." option if you want.
Here's the link.  I'll also put it in a comment to make it clickable:
https://ourdoings.com/person.html <comment><AUTHOR> The link with the clickpass button:

<https://ourdoings.com/person.html>

</comment><comment><USER2> iamdave, ClickPass worked fine.</comment>