A Proposal for a High Resolution Display (2009) - <AUTHOR> https://bernd-paysan.de/hires.html <comment><USER2> The ideal would be to use hexagonal pixels for camera sensors, displays, and printer dither/halftone patterns, the same way human retinas arrange their cone cells. :-) Cf. [https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=hexagonal+image+process...](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=hexagonal+image+processing)

Since we have so much variety in screen shapes and resolutions today, most of the time we're resampling images on the fly to rotate/scale them into their position on screen anyway, so the pixel data representing an image in a file isn't getting directly sent to the same on-screen grid. Thus for most of what we display on screen, there's no inherent need to stick to the same grid shape used for storage, and a hexagonal pixel grid would in practice look better for the same number of pixels (hexagonal grids are particularly good for representing curved shapes and reducing moiré artifacts). For that matter, there's no inherent need to store square grids of pixels in our image formats; we could use hexagonal-pixel files and easily resample them for display on arbitrary display grids. The only thing stopping us is technical fluency with rectangular grids, and cultural/historical inertia.

(Think of the iPhone 6+, where software can't even address the native screen pixels, and literally everything gets rendered to one size grid and then resampled for a different display grid.)

Beyond that, people really need to stop using the extremely misleading CIE 1931 (x, y) chromaticity diagram when comparing color gamuts. The CIE 1976 (u', v') UCS diagram is much more uniform, and just as easy to plot (it's just a simple linear transformation of the (x, y) diagram). We've known the problems with the (x, y) diagram for >50 years now, there's really no excuse for its continuing ubiquity.

For making diagrams of pixel grids, it would also be better to show less intensely colored RGB pixels, so that the G' pixel doesn't so look obviously less intense.

<comment><USER3> On the iPhone 6+, software can, in fact, address native screen pixels. This is even quite easy. However, that is not the default API behavior, the application must specifically request device native pixels by setting a certain flag. Typically, general GUI apps would not bother because it's easier that way, games would flip the switch for performance, and more sophisticated apps (photo apps, perhaps) would flip the switch as well.

<comment><USER4> Here's more info about how the iPhone 6+ scales pixels in various situations if anyone's curious: [http://oleb.net/blog/2014/11/iphone-6-plus- screen/](http://oleb.net/blog/2014/11/iphone-6-plus-screen/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Digital cameras have used LCDs with non-square pixels for years, but the problem is that with such an arrangement, you can't get sharp text (or any other fine horizontal/vertical line detail) without things looking blurry or unusually jagged vertically/horizontally. Photography is (mostly) fine because the content is largely smooth gradients.

 _The red and blue pixels can be used for sub-pixel anti-aliasing, which can improve percieved resolution and rendering accuracy further._

Subpixel AA just makes my eyes water and I feel dizzy after a few minutes, probably because there are no real edges to focus on. I'm probably in the minority, but not the only one who prefers pixel-sharp text.

<comment><USER2> If your antialiasing is making things look fuzzy, then you are either positioning yourself too close to the display, or your display has too low resolution.

When you're talking about digital camera LCDs, do you mean the display on the back of the camera? Those are mostly awful, I just ignore them. :-)

<comment><USER6> Isn't your first statement tautological? I'm also in the apparent minority to whom font antialiasing (subpixel or not) on low-ppi screens, e.g., 22" at 1920x1080, seems a bit blurry, even when leaning back. Certainly though, there are implementations of different quality: I find ClearType the most acceptable.

As far as I am aware, I have yet to see non-antialiased fonts rendered on a high-ppi screen, but it would be interesting to see to what degree antialiasing is still necessary on such screens.

<comment><USER2> Luckily there are now displays with ~22″ diagonal and 3840×2160 pixels.

These look much better than the 1920×1080 ones.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I think this mostly would be a marginal gain, especially given that there would be a lot of catching up to do in the manufacturing space, except for the wider color gamut, but it is interesting to think about possible improvements. Here are some ideas:

\- _" Note that red and blue pixels need to be twice as intensive as green"_ Is there a necessity for pixels to be rectangular? If not, I would go and shop in [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_convex_uniform_tilin...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_convex_uniform_tilings) to look for a way to have fewer, but larger red and blue pixels.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snub_square_tiling](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snub_square_tiling) using green triangles looks like a decent candidate to me. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elongated_triangular_tiling](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elongated_triangular_tiling) also seems reasonable. In practice, the ideal pattern would depend on the relative brightness of the colours in the light source used.

(I guess it would be easier to just make the familiar rectangular pattern with 4 stripes RGBG and/or with variable widths of the color bands at a slightly higher resolution than to experiment with these)

\- If you are making a display where each pixel directly emits light (as opposed to a LCD display, where a pixel can be controlled to let through light from the backlight) and pixels can be made transparent for colors they do not emit, layer the pixels.

<comment><USER2> There's no inherent reason display pixels (or sensor pixels) must be any particular shape.

For an amusing idea w/r/t sensor pixel shapes, check out this paper: [http://www.cis.pku.edu.cn/faculty/vision/zlin/Publications/2...](http://www.cis.pku.edu.cn/faculty/vision/zlin/Publications/2015-TIP- Penrose.pdf)

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> A nice idea.

The trouble is our reliance on expecting displays to reproduce frequencies (aka. crispness) that is beyond the Nyquist frequency of the display.

So with the proposed bayer pattern, we can no longer represent horizontal and vertical lines which are common in text and widgets with the sharpness we expect (unlike photographs, where we don't expect these)

We should be looking to satisfy Nyquist with a high enough resolution display and an optical low-pass filter between the display and the eye. Then things will all fall in to place...

</comment><comment><USER9> This kind of display is poor at representing hard, orthagonal edges, which drive much of our user interfaces, lots of text rendering, and pixel art.

<comment><USER10> The depends on the real resolution, doesn't it?

<comment><USER9> Increasing resolution makes it _better_, but the same resolution with square RGB arrangements will do a better job for the aforementioned contexts.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Isn't that Pentile?

<comment><USER12> Without the rotation, yeah.. pentile is basically

green red green blue green red green blue green

What I don't understand about this proposal is why the rotated grid has 4 different colored squares.

<comment><USER13> The author talks about using two different greens in the 5th paragraph. It creates a wider colour gamut.

<comment> mark-r The real question is if the second green is physically realizable with cost- effective chemistry. Given that all real-world sources will start with 3-color RGB, it's questionable whether the improvement would be worth the cost. The Sony F828 camera with its RGBE sensor had the same problem in reverse, there was no advantage to having a 4th primary when everything had to be down- converted to the lowest common denominator.

<comment><USER2> Sony sensor press release: [http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press_Archive/200307/03-02...](http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press_Archive/200307/03-029E/)

I'd love to see some better multispectral cameras and displays. If you can get the content and hardware working together, you can get substantially better results than current tech. Of course, as you say, there's a big chicken–egg problem.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> OLPC did the color swizzling back in 2006 [http://wiki.laptop.org/go/File:PixelLayoutDiagonal.png](http://wiki.laptop.org/go/File:PixelLayoutDiagonal.png)

<comment><USER15> So they throw away 2/3 of the graphics memory?

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> (2009)</comment>


Assange Hearing Day 2 - <AUTHOR> https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/02/your-man-in-the-public-gallery-assange-hearing-day-2/ <comment><USER3> I think there is an important point missing in the debate. This is an extradition hearing. It doesn't matter whether Assange is guilty of the alleged crimes the US has come up with or not, what matters is whether he is expected to receive a fair trial in the US and whether the potential sentences in the US would be roughly on a par with what he'd expect for the same alleged crimes in the UK. For all I can see, this is definitely not the case.

You can even make a case that almost nobody should be extradited to the US by any country, since the US justice system has serious flaws, might not be just at all (e.g. it has about 10 times longer maximum prison sentences than in the rest of the civilized world) and the US penal system constitutes a constant human rights violation. For example, the administrations of many US prisons are notoriously unable to prevent the raping and murdering of their inmates. I've even heard people from the US making jokes about prison rape, as if that was to be expected and part of the "justice". As another example, a prison in Illinois was under 23 years of permanent lockdown, meaning that all inmates were in isolation for 23 years. There are credible accounts that Assange is facing imprisonment in high-security isolation facilities similar to what they did to Manning for a long time. I cannot understand why any civilized person would allow a treatment as inhumane as in US maximum security prisons with isolation, regardless of the crime.

Generally speaking, countries should review their extradition treaties. US justice is non-proportionality based on revenge and involves frequent human rights abuses. The same is true of other countries like Japan or Russia, but AFAIK extradition requests to these countries are much rarer.

<comment><USER4> > This is an extradition hearing. It doesn't matter whether Assange is guilty > of the alleged crimes the US has come up with or not,

That can't be true. For an extradition to happen, the requesting party must provide some evidence - not for a conviction, but to establish that the charges were made in good faith and that it is not unreasonable that the accused will actually be found guilty. States can't just frivolously request extradition. AFAICT.

> You can even make a case that almost nobody should be extradited to the US > by any country

Yes, for the reasons you gave and others.

<comment><USER5> It's perhaps not called extradition within the EU, but Sweden sought the "extradition" of Assange without even formally charging him with a crime.

<comment><USER4> It is extradition. They demanded he be extradited to Sweden to question him. He suggested a questioning in the Ecuadorian embassy but they refused.

<comment><USER6> > They demanded he be extradited to Sweden to question him

This was all for show. [https://www.republik.ch/2020/01/31/nils-melzer-about- wikilea...](https://www.republik.ch/2020/01/31/nils-melzer-about-wikileaks- founder-julian-assange)

<comment><USER4> I didn't say the demand was legitimate, but it was still an extradition request...

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> > Julian had twice been stripped naked and searched, eleven times been > handcuffed, and five times been locked up in different holding cells. On top > of this, all of his court documents had been taken from him by the prison > authorities, including privileged communications between his lawyers and > himself, and he had been left with no ability to prepare to participate in > today's proceedings.

Still barely any mention of this case in the mainstream American or UK press. Until recently Amnesty International refused to even recognize Assange as a political prisoner, and the only thing they had said about him was that he was "not a political prisoner". They've since changed their tune, but it sure took them long enough.

A man is being tortured in plain sight in the UK and no one in the media cares to report on it.

<comment><USER8> It won't make the US press, because all of that is a pretty typical US jail experience, sadly.

<comment><USER9> the US has successfully become a 3rd world country.

power in the hands of a few: check corruption at the highest possible level: check a gradually more authoritarian "leader": check a people who support such a leader: check military might used against political opponents: check enormous amounts of poverty cleverly ignored: check

the list goes on. i suppose there is a time for every powerful nation to go into a deep decline that it will never recover from, and such decline usually starts when people ignore what's going on right in front of them. had russia done to assange what the us is doing now all of them EU, US and other hypocrites would be jumping like their arse was burned: but human rights. but torture. but freedom of the press. but this and that. well, enjoy your dystopia.

<comment><USER10> As if any of this is recent. People keep voting for the same crooks, generation after generation. Another election cycle, nobody is talking about the wars, just what benefits the government should pay for.

<comment><USER11> Nailed it. Just vote harder, amirite? This has come so far from the individual freedom that the bill of rights was envisioned to protect. Now the question is "what is right thing to do for me" rather than "what is the right thing to do."

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. - <USER2>

<comment><USER10> It's crazy. I always speak out about the wars, that's the single most important issue of our day. The government is literally killing people overseas, spending literal trillions of dollars. You would think it's something we can all agree on, but people treat you like a literal crackpot.

<comment><USER12> Keep spouting off, it's better than being silent about it all

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Murray's report of the first day of the trial also worth reading: [https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/02/your-man- in-...](https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/02/your-man-in-the- public-gallery-assange-hearing-day-1/)

<comment><USER13> Interesting.

> _Extradition hearings are not held at Belmarsh Magistrates Court inside > Woolwich Crown Court. They are always held at Westminster Magistrates Court > as the application is deemed to be delivered to the government at > Westminster. Now get your head around this. This hearing is at Westminster > Magistrates Court. It is being held by the Westminster magistrates and > Westminster court staff, but located at Belmarsh Magistrates Court inside > Woolwich Crown Court. All of which weird convolution is precisely so they > can use the "counter-terrorist court" to limit public access and to impose > the fear of the power of the state._

...

> _There was a separate media entrance and a media room with live transmission > from the courtroom, and there were so many scores of media I thought I could > relax and not worry as the basic facts would be widely reported. In fact, I > could not have been more wrong. I followed the arguments very clearly every > minute of the day, and not a single one of the most important facts and > arguments today has been reported anywhere in the mainstream media. That is > a bold claim, but I fear it is perfectly true. So I have much work to do to > let the world know what actually happened. The mere act of being an honest > witness is suddenly extremely important, when the entire media has abandoned > that role._

<comment><USER14> An alternate possibility is that this one reporter is too biased to report accurately. "Everyone's hiding the truth but me" is _sometimes_ true, but not always.

<comment><USER15> This reporter makes no bones about being a close personal friend.

He's also stated with no evidence but only conjecture and supposition that "the US government has given explicit directions to the UK magistrate in how they are to treat the case", and "found it odd" that US officials were in court (for an extradition hearing to the US?).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> That judge does not exactly come across as impartial in this description. I'm not a lawyer, but it does look like a mistrial of some sort.

Whatever you think of Julian Assange, he deserves a fair trial, and this doesn't sound like he's getting one.

<comment><USER17> The problem is, from the very first paragraph, this website doesn't come across as anything close to impartial either. So I'd suggest you find some more sources before you criticize the judge.

<comment><USER16> True. Like I said: "from this description". No idea how accurate it is. It would be good to have other sources.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> > "Are you suggesting, Mr Summers, that the authorities, the Government, > should have to provide context for its charges?"

The judge, Vanessa Baraitser, said that.

<comment><USER11> Pretty much sums it up right there. done.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> This is an egregious miscarriage of justice and everyone involved in perpetrating it against this man - for publishing the misdeeds of government, should be strung up, Literally. That is what the founders of this country would have done, and we could do worse than following their example, here.

</comment><comment><USER19> This is a sham as his trial in the US, which is inevitable, will be. The US will not stop at anything in this case because leaking a video showing that US soldiers enjoy killing children is worse for them than actually killing children. This video showed the world what everyone already knew: that the US, and specifically the US armed forces, have no ethics, no morals, no qualms about killing children even when it's unnecessary. This isn't about endangering troops. This is about image only. Frankly, I hope the leaks did endanger troops. Scum soldiers that enjoy killing children deserve to die as do their superiors who almost certainly encouraged it and certainly didn't punish it. The US armed forces have no honor and they should be ashamed of themselves as should the government that starts bullshit wars and kills millions of innocents. This applies to everyone from the commander in chief to the lowest soldier. As a fellow American, I despise them for their service and they can all go fuck themselves. The video that Assange leaked is just one example of many of despicable behavior and the fact that they are punishing him rather than the animals who enjoy killing children is indefensible, immoral, and reflects on the entire armed forces institutions. Fuck them.

</comment><comment><USER20> I found the article valuable and also a bit ironic that the only method to donate to this blogger, apart from a bank transfer, is PayPal. (In case anyone does not remember, they suspended Wikileaks account in 2010.)

</comment><comment><USER21> Is there any explanation for why the special counsel never attempted to interview Assange on the Wikileaks DNC email leak?

The whole premise of their investigation started with the narrative that Russia hacked the DNC and released the emails through Wikileaks to help Trump win. Why never ask Assange where he got the emails? He's been adamant publicly that it wasn't Russia. Why not ask him then who in an investigation that took 2 years? This has always bothered me and intrigued me about Assange.

</comment><comment><USER22> A quick summary of day 3 is here: [https://www.rt.com/news/481711-assange- protection-political-...](https://www.rt.com/news/481711-assange-protection- political-extradition-fundamental-right/)

<comment><USER23> According to GOOGL: "RT is funded in whole or in part by the Russian government."

Twelve Russian military intelligence officers were indicted in the US for in part working with WikiLeaks, so readers should find a more neutral source as well.

<comment><USER24> > "RT is funded in whole or in part by the Russian government."

Irrelevant.

</comment></comment></comment><comment> d--b Given the state of the justice system in the UK and USA, maybe the best course of action for Assange is to get extradited, then tell the public that Wikileaks helped expose Hillary's private email server, and get pardoned by Trump...

<comment><USER25> If he is extradited, he will not receive a public trial.

<comment><USER26> Wasn't the US government trying to kill him? I guess it will be easy once they have it in their soil...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> The judge has basically said this is a politically motivated extradition, and the court is fine with that. I hope that this get appealed to a higher court and it's not left to this hostile judge.

<comment><USER28> The judge hasn't said that at all. The judge said that the UK law as a matter of fact doesn't bar extraditions for political reasons - so the defense has to prove the treaty is legally binding on the court as a pre-condition for even making the argument that extradition should be stopped because its politically motivated.

<comment><USER29> International treaties are more binding than domestic law, as the Vienna Convention: [https://www.oas.org/legal/english/docs/Vienna%20Convention%2...](https://www.oas.org/legal/english/docs/Vienna%20Convention%20Treaties.htm)

"A party may not invoke the provisions of its internal law as justification for its failure to perform a treaty."

<comment><USER21> In practice this is untrue.

<comment><USER29> Sure, but it seems hard to dismiss in court.

<comment><USER30> I don't know how it is in the UK, but in the US most "treaties" are actually executive agreements, which set a policy of the US executive branch but do not have the force of law. Treaties must be approved by 2/3 of the US Senate to have the force of law, by the US Constitution, and even then a treaty can't violate the US Constitution. You left out the full text of Article 26, which is pretty important:

"A party may not invoke the provisions of its internal law as justification for its failure to perform a treaty. This rule is without prejudice to article 46."

Article 46 states:

""" 1\. A State may not invoke the fact that its consent to be bound by a treaty has been expressed in violation of a provision of its internal law regarding competence to conclude treaties as invalidating its consent unless that violation was manifest and concerned a rule of its internal law of fundamental importance.

2\. A violation is manifest if it would be objectively evident to any State conducting itself in the matter in accordance with normal practice and in good faith. """

I would consider the US Constitution a "rule of its internal law of fundamental importance". I'm sure the UK government would have no problem finding a similar argument that makes Article 26 a dead letter.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> Why is he calling Bellingcat a warmongering propaganda operations and saying they've got a "source of state, corporate or institutional finance"? I though they were independent

<comment><USER32> they are independent. i wouldn't trust craig murray if he was the last person on earth.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> This is horrifying. As a European I'm afraid to even visit the USA. I'd expect this from some third world hellhole but not from a country which professes to have the rule of law.

<comment><USER34> Since Brexit and because of it, the UK is becoming part of the US empire; it's a dominion and as such, it will obey US injunctions in that case and any other.

<comment><USER35> I'd be interested in your sources for these statements?

I understand the long history of cooperation between the US and UK (not always balanced) but has anything substantive changed since, or because of, Brexit?

<comment><USER36> the US has a lot of leverage due to post-brexit trade deal negotiations, afaik that's the only change

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> Free Assange

<comment><USER38> He has done enough damage with his "work" on leaks with Russia. No thanks.

<comment><USER39> So shooting the messenger is now a defensible position in polite company?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> Consider the source, right? Always ask ourselves "What does this source, this reporter, this organisation, want us to think?"

That doesn't mean that we have to ignore everything they say; it just becomes us to know what the source's own agenda is, to better arm ourselves.

Craig Murray's website suggests he is, for example, a credulous believer of Russian explanations for events. He does on occasion correct himself (such as in his post about the famed picture of two different people walking through two different channels - [https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/09/the- impossib...](https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/09/the-impossible- photo/) ) but nonetheless he has a long-standing mindset which will temper his beliefs and of course colour everything he sees and his interpretations thereof.

Of course so do we all, but not all of us are reporting on this case to the public at large, pushing our own beliefs and agenda.

<comment><USER41> Craig Murray is a former career diplomat and UK ambassador to Uzbekistan, who got railroaded out of the foreign service for having the temerity to note that Uzbek leader Islam Karimov was (literally) boiling his opponents to death. If this is an agenda, I support it.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Murray](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Murray)

Also: [https://archive.is/20061012215514/http://www.craigmurray.co....](https://archive.is/20061012215514/http://www.craigmurray.co.uk/archives/2005/02/the_pathologist.html)

<comment><USER42> Thank you for the second link, absolutely astonishing

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> This is always going to happen when you go about doing what he did in such a flamboyant way.

I agree that he was by no means an angel, but I also see the reasons why the governments want to set an example. People have this idea that it's a terrible thing if their governments have secrets.. It's normal..

That doesn't justify this treatment of him. By any means, one would think he would be treated well in public.

> Is Assange the victim of torture?

It looks as though he's being made an example of. If thats right or wrong is anyones guess, but it doesn't make anyone confortable.

<comment><USER44> > If thats right or wrong is anyones guess

You're fucking joking right?

Something about "cruel and unusual punishment", which is present in both English and American law. Furthermore, there's this little document called the 'Universal Declaration of Human Rights', which has stuff to say on this matter too, and has been signed by both the US and England.

<comment><USER43> I'm not joking, what Assange did was at best 'cunty'. He could have been more careful releasing the information but he wasnt.

He's being made an example of, its clear as day. My 'if its right or wrong' depends on your side of the argument, so no. I'm not joking.

> "cruel and unusual punishment"

Couldn't agree with you more, he should not be made to suffer needlessly.. He's not in a labor camp, he's not being whipped. He knew he was going to be made an example of. This is the result. I'm not saying its nice, but it's not even punishment yet. He will receive much worse later I'm sure.

<comment><USER45> The post is interesting.

I had a similar revelation when my wife, a self-professed history buff, said she won't read My Struggle, because she will be put on the list somewhere. I initially found it amusing, but then I understood that even though she apparently does not seem to care much about privacy, she instinctively understands how weird things have become today. She does not want to address it, but she adjusts her behavior to fit the mold.

Bilekas post is the same. It attempts to present a neutral position. It recognizes current state and assumes that this is just how things are.

Personally, I find it chilling that an individual today is willing to effectively say the following:

1\. Assange may be innocent, but it does not matter as the real verdict was already rendered. This is just a formality. 2\. His pre-punishment punishment is not as bad as it could have been somewhere else. 3\. Assange knew what he was getting into, therefore he does not have basic human rights ( variation of: you don't kick the bear argument )

<comment><USER43> > 1\. Assange may be innocent, but it does not matter as the real verdict was > already rendered. This is just a formality. 2. His pre-punishment punishment > is not as bad as it could have been somewhere else. 3. Assange knew what he > was getting into, therefore he does not have basic human rights ( variation > of: you don't kick the bear argument )

I get what you mean and yes, you have a point. I guess I'm just surprised that people are getting annoyed this is happening now when it was always going to happen.

It's like constantly reminding someone that the boiling water will burn your hand, the boiling water will burn your hand, the boiling water will burn your hand. Then people being surprised and outraged that the water burnt your hand.

This outrage just seems almost topical. It should have been made earlier, it wasn't so this is the result.

<comment><USER46> It's easy to say this was going to happen. (Especially after it happened.) But it's not a natural law like boiling water burning one's hand. Proteins are always going to be damaged by heat. But here we observe due process being violated. It's not a natural law that due process is going to be violated. Violations depend on attitude, checks and incentives. As a society, we can shape those to a large degree!

We could have complained earlier, in other instances. You can say we should have been more alert. There were victims we ignored. But that does not invalidate our complaints now!

<comment><USER43> > But that does not invalidate our complaints now!

No but they are less appreciated. A sense of 'NIMBY' overcomes me reading the pitty for Assange.

> Violations depend on attitude, checks and incentives.

Yup, and given that we all knew this was going to happen, what did we say before ? — Nothing.

<comment><USER46> > A sense of 'NIMBY' overcomes me reading the pitty for Assange.

I don't get what you are saying. It sounds like we shouldn't complain about it happening here because it's happening in other places.

I count myself as part of a wider society of which the UK is a part. If we want to criticize other societies, like Russia for example, we better damn well make sure we don't run the same shit-shows of legal persecutions. I also have more influence over processes in my society, so it is logical to spend my efforts here. Lastly, I care more about due process in my society just out of self-preservation.

Your relativism is useless in deciding where to spend effort. If you don't care, sure, you don't have to. But don't piss on people that advocate for our liberties.

> given that we all knew this was going to happen, what did we say before ? — > Nothing

We? You're projecting your own callous ignorance. Just because you decided not to listen doesn't mean nobody spoke up. I ask you to shut up rather than to invalidate the effort of those who risk their livelihoods exposing government malfeasance. We should defend them, not tell them they had it coming!

<comment><USER43> Sure. Whatever you like then.

A lot of this went off-topic a little.

I can see why there is an example being made of him. End of.

I'll go shut up now boss.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Efficient Alias of a Built-In Emacs Lisp Function - <AUTHOR> https://nullprogram.com/blog/2019/12/10/ <comment><USER2> I'm a huge fan of Chris's blog. I read almost everything he posts, it's interesting stuff and he's a solid writer, too.

</comment><comment><USER3> Seems like the obvious solution here would be a macro, I would think. I wonder why that wasn't tried.

<comment><USER4> A macro isn't a function and can't be used like a function. Sure, doing the work at compile-time instead of run-time will be much more efficient at run- time, but you're won by moving the goal posts.</comment></comment>


How to Send an Email (1984) - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szdbKz5CyhA <comment><USER2> Oh, I love this. That UI is wonderful! I really just love text menu UIs in general. They're just so lightweight, fast, easy to understand, ugh. It's like the best parts of GUIs and CLIs.

I also love how his password is clearly either '1234', 'asdf', or something like that, lol.</comment>


Air pollution may be damaging 'every organ in the body' - <AUTHOR> https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2019/may/17/air-pollution-may-be-damaging-every-organ-and-cell-in-the-body-finds-global-review <comment><USER2> Does anyone know of any air filter methods that also demand very little resources?

I've been looking air purifiers in the shops, but when I see how many Watts most of them use on an hourly basis, and imagine running them 24 hours a day, it makes me wonder if there are any alternatives.

Would growing a lot of plants help perhaps?

<comment><USER3> Several of my friends in Beijing have switched from portable air purifiers (e.g. IQAir HealthPro 250) to air purifiers that are attached to a window via a wide, flexible pipe.

These have a few advantages over traditional air purifiers:

1) No CO2 build-up.

Although all your windows are still shut, you're still pulling in fresh air from the outside via the hole in the window where the air purifier is installed. With traditional air purifiers, you need to open your windows for ~20 mins every 12 hours, to replenish your oxygen supply, but this also brings in pollutants.

2) All air entering the apartment is filtered.

Because the installed air purifier is pulling in air from the outside, and not just filtering air that's already in the apartment, it creates positive air pressure. This means that, where there are small areas with air leakage (e.g. suspended ceilings, cavities around heating units, imperfect seals on outside door), air is pushed out of the apartment, instead of polluting air being pulled in.

3) Single large unit for the whole apartment, instead of one unit per room.

I guess that, due to these advantages, the total amount of air that these purifiers need to pump in a day is much less than the regular ones. I haven't verified this. But our friends' installed units are definitely less noisy than 5 x IQAir machines.

<comment><USER4> Reading this post makes me feel like I'm living in some kind of dystopian scifi novel. One interesting side effect of the recent Extinction Rebellion protests that stopped all traffic in large parts of London is how much more aware of the sheer volume of ICE traffic I am now, and how unbelievable it now feels that we allow it.</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Deadbeat Client – Owes us 25k – What are my options? - <AUTHOR> I guess it was bound to happen eventually..and i've just been lucky.
But after 10yrs of consulting.. I finally have my first major deadbeat client!
long story short..
I started smelling something bad, when they decided to suddenly fire their main backend guy ( just 1week before we would release their MVP which they wanted asap ) and without this dev, we could not continue fwd. This was the same time our invoice became overdue.
When I asked what happened, they said that without any notice, their main investor pulled out and that they were going to work on some new financial docs to present to them for reconsideration…and that i should be patient and wait - as the company is now downsizing.
When I requested a small 5k "good-faith" payment..or that i would pursue "other" paths, their COO ( my main point of contact ) called me to say she too was not getting paid, but that she was positive, and that i should just be patient.
some details:
1 - been working with the client for the past 6-months.
2 - they've been paying us on time for the last 4.5-months.
3 - they love our work. no issues there.
4 - they had a seed round 2-yrs ago for 3.5M ( which i guess they burned already )
What kind of options do i have?
What tactics have worked for you?
*I want to avoid a long drawn out process ( since i just blew all my extra savings on paying my in-house devs )
thanks! <comment><USER2> My random advice from the internet, is to make your decisions premised on never seeing the money.

1\. The COO did not treat paying you as a priority.

2\. The COO normalized non-payment by stating they had not been paid.

3\. The company is not even offering pennies on the dollar.

4\. The investor has pulled out.

Roughly, your options come down to luck.

1\. Maybe the company gets money _and_ decides to pay you and everyone else for work done instead of using the money to grow the company or pay themselves.

2\. Maybe the company gets money and you and everyone else who they owe money can sue them and win and the money spent on attorneys turns out to be well spent.

3\. Maybe the company files bankruptcy and you pay an attorney to represent you and their is a pile of money so large that even unsecured creditors get paid.

4\. Maybe you hire an attorney and successfully litigate a claim and the company has no money.

5\. The most likely situation is that the company goes bankruptcy and you never see money no matter what you do. It's the one to plan for.

6\. Just move on and find paying work and consider requiring a retainer or other method of billing where non-payment does not hurt so badly.

Good luck.

<comment><USER3> I had a deadbeat client who owed me about $10K. What I really wanted to do was sue, make his life miserable, call his investors, etc. But in the end, I just walked away. He'd burned through all of his money, and I didn't actually hate the guy. And I'd be happy to work with him again, if he pays in advance. :)

Life is too short to get hung up on small hiccups.

<comment><USER4> I had a deadbeat client in Japan. I did want to walk away but my Japanese wife did not. She declared that unacceptable from a Japanese company. The procedure was surprisingly straightforward. When the person refused to come to trial, we were authorized to walk in with a legal specialist to seize down assets, only to find out that the guy had just been evicted by his landlord and all the physical assets already seized.

<comment><AUTHOR> funny my wife offered to do the exact same thing almost and call him at home ( found the # online! ) and really lay it on him how he's stealing food from our kid's mouth.

<comment><USER3> If I had a crusading wife, there's no way I'd get between her and someone who owed money to the family's primary source of income. :)

That being said, for me it doesn't make a lot of sense to sue someone without money. That is just throwing more time and money down a hole. It was more productive to learn from the experience, adjust client engagement process to reduce the chance it'd happen again, and move on.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> First and foremost: STOP ALL ACTIONS UNTIL PAYMENT IS RECEIVED. Make sure you document EVERYTHING and have a document of EVERYTHING. Emails. Chats. Get yourself an attorney who specializes in this. Or if you have ever watched any of the judge shows, you'll definitely see plenty of cases like this. The biggest mistakes people make of losing their case, well actually, I wrote up a list of things to do if you so choose to go the small claims court route: [http://www.confessionsoftheprofessions.com/courtroom- televis...](http://www.confessionsoftheprofessions.com/courtroom-television- lessons/)

<comment><USER6> >> STOP ALL ACTIONS UNTIL PAYMENT IS RECEIVED

Absolutely not. _He_ may be in breach of contract by withholding.

>> Get yourself an attorney

This. He should have already had a lawyer on consult. If not, he needs one now. There is no way to resolve this risk-free without a lawyer.

<comment><USER7> They are already in breach of contract by not paying. It sounds unreasonable to expect him to continue working when it's unclear he's ever going to be paid. (Or likely he's never going to be paid, even.)

<comment><USER6> How do you know the company is in breach of contract for not paying? Have you seen the contract that is in play here? You have no idea what the payment terms are, let alone clauses regarding delivery. Even if we were to see the contract, we are not able to assess and respond in a manner that has any legal merit.

Seriously, these kinds of "Ask HN" make me angry with the kinds of comments people reply with. You cannot possibly know the legal situation the OP finds themselves in based on the (lack of) details they've written. What you are telling them could see them in court losing the case, and maybe even having to _pay_ damages for cutting ties. You are giving advice that could potentially destroy their business, or even result in personal financial ruin.

Read that again: your comment could ruin a person's life. Think twice before you pretend to be in a position to help someone by spewing advice without having a clue what the situation calls for.

Frankly, I'm astounded that HN allows "Ask HN" posts seeking advice with legal ramifications. These should be moderated and removed. The _ONLY_ valid answer to these posts is "consult a lawyer". Nothing else is helpful, whatsoever. Even real lawyers who might respond cannot determine the correct course of action without hours of research into the specific case at hand.

<comment><USER7> I'm not the one giving legal advice, I'm giving a moral opinion: it's unreasonable to require someone to work for no pay. That is something that should be illegal. I'm here for the moral commentary. Of course he should consult a lawyer. Plenty of people pointed that out already. That does not mean this is not an important topic for discussion; it is vital that people know what to pay attention to in their contracts.

And if lack of payment is not breach of contract, it's a bizarre contract. That would mean he already agreed to work for free, and that seems very hard to believe. If it does, he's a much bigger idiot for that than for relying on anonymous internet legal advice.

Then again, some laws, jurisdictions and judges are absolutely surreal. And that's also why anonymous legal advice on an international forum is meaningless: what matters is your local jurisdiction. But that doesn't mean we can't have an opinion on it.

<comment><USER6> It's not possible for a random stranger on the internet to provide, as you call it, "moral advice". Moral advice never wins a case in court. Any advice, prefixed with a bullshit adjective like "moral", might be - yes, stupidly - interpreted as information that might have _some_ amount of legal merit for someone who is in a legal predicament. The fact that "IANAL" (I Am Not A Lawyer) even exists as an acronym is a disservice to anyone who ever reads an "IANAL" comment trying to find some shred of hope that will assist them in a legal scenario. People wear blinders when in desperate situations, potentially taking advice from people who don't have a goddamn clue what they are talking about.

Now I don't give a damn how rude I am being: never give advice to someone regarding a legal matter other than "you should talk to your lawyer", unless _you_ are offering _your_ legal services - and surprise, legal discussions would never happen on a public forum. You could destroy a life if you offer ill-advised information, and the recipient believes you instead of seeking legal counsel. Unless you know every facet of their case, even if you're a lawyer, you cannot guarantee that your advice is not ill-advised for their situation.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> 1\. Talk to an attorney. Good attorneys will usually be happy to have an initial consultation with you for no cost unless you decide to move forward.

2\. The next time a member of the C-Suite in a VC-funded startup calls you to try and draw a false equivalence between them not getting paid and you not getting paid for sympathy points, call them out on it by reminding them 1) that they have equity for that risk, 2) that you don't, and 3) that you're insisting on restitution. Be forthright and assertive about the terms they agreed to in the contract (since you'd been at this, I assume you have contracts in place), but do not be the one to escalate the situation further.

3\. Make sure you're communicating in writing everywhere (email is fine). For calls, send follow-up emails summarizing the calls while they're fresh in your memory. Take notes on the calls. Prefer written communication to calls where possible. Record calls if you're in a one-party state (based on another comment, you seem to be).

4\. Don't be antagonistic and don't be passive aggressive. Especially don't do anything that makes you feel good emotionally but causes your client to become a more sympathetic party, and potentially sever some of their contractual obligations. For now, consider the remaining invoice balance a loss and be dispassionate about it.

5\. Going forward, make sure your contracts have the following clauses, if they do not already: 1) all work is exclusively owned by you until the last invoice has been successfully deposited in your account; 2) invoice payments are required for your time according to the agreed fee schedule regardless of ultimate deliverable completion, while both are true: a) the deliverable is being developed in good faith, and b) neither party has yet provided a clear and explicit communication that the work must pause.

Point 5 is important. If you are working on the project and they do not tell you it needs to pause until mid-way through your next invoice cycle, they are contractually obligated to pay for the time they didn't intend to use but for which they did use and failed to notify you. Even more importantly, the work is not transferred to them until they pay you, which means they legally have nothing until their obligations are paid.

In the worst case scenario under this template, you will not recover your money. On the other hand, they won't have your intellectual property and they won't be able to sell it off to pay other creditors. You should realistically prepare for the possibility that you're never going to see the money your client owes you.

<comment><AUTHOR> great tips and terms!

luckily I had the the IP ownership > full payment one in our contract. But i like the 'full-coverage' option too. I will even add an extra penalty for last minute pull-outs/or just ask for a 25% retainer.

Having never dealt with the CEO, i sent him a VM to his home, which i heard later he was shocked to get.. which kindly asked him to respond to my email that went:

        This is Joe, CEO of XYZ, the studio which has been faithfully working on your new products since last year.

I've tried inquiring with Patricia as to when we could expect payment of all our outstanding balances to-date ( see below ) -- only to have been repeatedly given various specific dates which have come and gone.

Her last update to me was "Sorry I have no more info..thanks for your patience".

Please understand we are a very small operation which relies on timely payments to stay in business.

We only have a few select clients we honorably service with the highest standards and transparency, as we value the long-term potential of each relationship.

We've been very flexible with the delays and would like to confirm - personally with you - as to when we can expect payments of the (three) 60, 50, and 30 day late invoices.

Once they are fulfilled, we can happily continue rendering our services and finish up this incredible app.

—his reply —

        I got your phone call; it's my understanding you are in frequent conversation with Pam, and she has been trying to keep you as updated as possible.  We have been in a bit of a financial squeeze ourselves, in part because funds we thought were coming in didn't, and that has affected our ability to pay what we owe to you and some others.  I do expect that we will have clarity next week with regard to when we can make the payments due.  As a small business ourselves, and someone with many years experience in that position, I know how difficult this can be and we really do appreciate your understanding.

—my reply —

        Thanks for your timely response.

If you've been in my position you then you fully understand the entire situation.

I absolutely need $5000 by next week to fulfill both my employee and family commitments on my end.

The last thing I want to do is purse alternatives. What is the likeliness of this payment?

—to which his COO decided to call me and commiserate with no clear deferred payment plan and just a sob story.

<comment><USER9> Close to zero chance you will receive the money by next week.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Your best options is to get an attorney and take them to court to recover your losses. No need to wait, especially for such a large amount of money. Get all your evidence together now so you can take it to an attorney tomorrow morning. If they had intentions on paying you on time they would have set aside your costs so they can be paid on time. Any company that does not do so does not care about paying you on time or staying in agreement with any contracts or other obligations.

<comment><AUTHOR> i also recorded my last convo with the COO.. but not sure if it is usable in court as she didn't know about it.

<comment><USER11> some states (Tx) only require 1 party to consent.

<comment><AUTHOR> both companies are in NY : where there is 1 party consent [http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/new-york-recording- law](http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/new-york-recording-law)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Look into filing a breach of contract suit yourself. in my opinion, threatening lawsuits is silly and the only stands to make you look bad but filing one shows that you're serious and puts you at the top of the payables list.

In some venues it's very easy to file cases like this.

<comment><USER13> This is only possible if the contract is with him individually, instead of an entity he created. In most places, a business entity cannot represent itself in court. It needs to hire a lawyer.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> You should _not_ be asking HN for advice. I've actually flagged this post for your own good, as it is irresponsible for anyone to even attempt to advise you with specifics, and it would be a huge misstep for you to follow any advice posted here other than "talk to a lawyer, now".

You should have had a lawyer on consult from the beginning, reviewing the initial contract and its payment terms. If the client isn't paying, you need to be talking to your lawyer. If you don't have a lawyer and an ironclad contract, the entire situation is a toss-up and there are no guarantees. You can't even refuse to deliver and walk away from this client without a lawyer's determination that you are not breaching contract by doing so. You believe you are the one being wronged. The courts may not agree, and the company could even turn around and sue _you_ for taking their project hostage.

Only _your_ lawyer, with knowledge of your state's laws, a copy of your contract, and an archive of all communications between you and your client, can help. Do not make a single decision based on HN comments, no matter how insightful they seem. If you follow the wrong advice, you could well see yourself in deep legal trouble with ramifications worse than losing the $25,000.

tldr; You should have had a lawyer at the start of this contract. If not, you must get one now. Get a lawyer. Now.

<comment><USER7> The idea that he could be required to continue working on this despite the client's inability or unwillingness to pay, is utterly repulsive.

Also, as a freelancer I don't lawyer up for every single contract. Now I work mostly for an hourly rate, and usually for big clients that pay reliably, on a standard contract that I don't get a lot of say in (there are always some details that I address, but I don't get to write my own contract). So in a sense it seems unreasonable to expect up-front lawyering with extremely restrictive clauses on regular freelance projects.

Is the insecurity around startups the issue? Maybe working for a startup does require more lawyering. (My only non-payment came from a tiny 4-person outfit. Too stable to really count as startup, I think. Only resulted in $700 damage, though.) I guess at the very least the contract should contain a clause that the code remains yours until you've been paid.

<comment><USER6> I strongly believe that lawyering up is the only safe approach. At a bare minimum, have a lawyer draft and/or review a single generic, reusable contract that covers the important bases. You only pay a one-time upfront fee. If a client insists on using their own contract instead of yours, pass it through your lawyer - or skip that job as being too much of a risk. Then keep the lawyer on speed dial so you can call them the moment you cannot resolve a grievance with a client.

My disbelief comes from the fact that this was a large contract worth more than $25,000 ($25k outstanding balance, with previous payments having been made). It is incredibly naive to allow an account to go $25,000 in the red, without having a lawyer ready to jump on board.

<comment><USER7> I find this a difficult situation. I know that with the litigatious culture in the US, lawyers practically need to be involved in every aspect of society, but I would really prefer if we could interact normally in good faith without involving lawyers in everything.

In Netherland, this actually works. I've been working for my current client for two weeks now and the contract has only just been signed. We can do a lot in contracts, but I can't accidentally sign myself away into slavery. I can't be expected to work for no pay when I'm not the one who fucked up.

And in this climate, $25k outstanding balance is not that unusual; I invoice monthly, and the client usually has a month to pay. So with $10k invoices, by the time the next invoice goes out the door, it could be $20k. Though in a jurisdiction with less legal structure and protection, I can imagine monthly invoices would be way too risky. But even then, if your invoices, are bigger, you can still easily get into this situation.

But again, it strongly depends on where you live. What's totally reasonable in one place, could be insanity in the next.

<comment><AUTHOR> MVC is correct. it was just 1 month behind..when things started to slip.. and thats when we stopped work.

having said that we will be taking major retainers and updating our contracts so they are bulletproof.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> It's good that communication channels are still open. That's very import.

o Whatever you may feel always be polite with reminders. Do not make them angry or make accusations. It sounds like they're already in a frustrating position.

o remember they have a legal obligation to meet payroll. Next on the list is lights on, heat & rent. After that hosting bill. And then below all of these are vendors. Hopefully you are at the top of the vendor list!

o if they run out of money you may not get paid. That's how it works!

o over the years I only had this happen once. It was $9k, but I subsequently got 2k of that. Still every month like clock work I send "a gentle reminder" of outstanding invoice for $7k. They still respond. So I know if that situation changes in the future I'll be first in line to get paid.

</comment><comment><USER15> A few thoughts from my own experiences:

A) They have been good with payment in the past, so there's still a chance they will settle up once their cash situation is sorted out. The key thing here is to keep your needs on their mind. Meaning: calling them 1-2 times a week, checking up on the status of payment, sending emails checking in on the status of payment. Escalate as needed, letting them know you are willing to pursue any avenue to get paid.

B) Do you have any leverage? There's a reason why any developer or development company worth it's salt demands an up-front deposit and deliverables on final payment - to ensure that they get paid.

C) If they're running low on money they are going to look for something that's going to give. They will have to make hard decisions, and if you appear to be the path of least resistance, they will take you. Refer back to point A. If you can stay on the forefront of their minds and make it clear you're not going away they will be more likely to prioritize paying you instead of paying vendor X.

D) Lawyer up? Probably. If they continue to be non-responsive to payment inquiries consult with a lawyer and see if he'll write up a demand letter. Again, they're not prioritizing paying you and a simple demand letter may be enough to get their attention and put you at the top of the stack. A lawyer can also help you escalate as needed including who to sue, when to sue, and where to file a lawsuit. At $25k this should be well beyond any small claims court.

E) If they're broke or going out of business you're going to have to be a hard ass to see any of this money. And you have to determine if the trade-offs are worth it. Assume it will cost you at least $5k in time, lawyer fees, debt collector fees to get to payment. Do you want to risk the time and money? You might spend the $5k and still end up with nothing. So think of any amount you'd be willing to settle for, including any lawyer fees.

</comment><comment><USER16> I've been through a lesser version. Ended up negotiating a payment plan that got me 4.5k on 7k, which, as these things go, is a huge win. The people saying you're lucky to get 20c on the dollar are dead on.

1) Do not assume that 3.5M is spent. Start inquiring pointedly, then aggressively, about exactly what remains. The odds are good that they're putting they payment of other bills above yours. Your job is to convince them that shorting you is going to hurt them more than shorting hubspot et al.

2) Explore your legal options with an emphasis on publicity. That COO isn't trying very hard. Their tune might change when it's spelled out for them that their mishandling of this situation will come up in the first page of results when their next potential employer googles them.

3) Let them know you're about to wardial every investor in the state. This person wants to raise money? Then it would behoove this person to pay you before you call every shop in town and let them know what's going down. (In reality, the wardialing strategy will do nothing, it's the fear factor that matters here)

4) Do not agree to any delay that isn't contractually backed. They need to pay you SOMETHING upfront, and if they want to talk about paying you later, that ink needs to be dry within 48 hours.

5) Call their landlord (after first warning them that you're about to call their landlord). Let them know that they're about to get run out on, and should start conversations now. (Again, it's not that the landlord is really going to act that fast, it's the gut wrenchingness of FEELING like your landlord is going to act that fast)

Basically, you're to treat this org as a hostile entity, and you are to make every waking moment for them as anxious as possible for as many people as possible. Call their spouse and let them know that the party's over. How much noise can you make, and how much pain can you convince them is headed their way?

If they owe you 25k, your job now is causing them 26+k of pain as acutely as possible. Go for the throat.

Remember, as long as the CEO hasn't sold their car and taken their kid out of private school, it's not that they "can't" pay you, it's that they "won't". There are always options.

And then, next time, for fucks sake, 50% upfront and a compounding non-payment clause. Can't buy food with good intentions.

<comment><USER17> Pretty much the fast track to being hit with the holy trifecta of libel(internet), slander(investors/landlord) and harassment(spouse). Do _not_ do this.

<comment><USER7> Yeah, parts of that advice sound very questionable. Making non-payment more costly for them than payment might be reasonable advice, but slandering them and harassing their family can end up a lot more costly for you.

If you want to play this hard, threatening them with a lawsuit and bankruptcy is probably the most painful thing you can do.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> 2 years ago a seed round with 3,5 million dollars and you are doing the MVP. Where the hell went the other 3+ million?

I don't think you will get the money, the are red warnings every where. Only release the MVP ( not code) if he asks to, but stop development.

Good luck

<comment><AUTHOR> for the last 4 years they have been running their v1 app. we were brought in to build their v2 apps.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> Debt collection lawyer. Sometimes a demand letter is all it takes. Defending a clear cut debt in court is irrational and they'll likely settle or no show and you get a default judgment. Which state?

</comment><comment><USER20> Alongside hiring a lawyer, a good debt collector can ensure that you get paid sooner rather than later.

Of course, it all depends on why the client isn't paying. If they're legitimately out of money then the likelihood that you won't get paid (or will only get a fraction of what you're owed) increases dramatically. I've been in a position where a client withheld funds when they could easily pay, and a debt collector had the money over to us within the day.

</comment><comment><USER21> You're likely never going to see that 25k and then you're down that plus lawyer fees.

How overdue is it? If we're talking 30 days then you need to wait a while longer before taking some action.

Threaten to report them to D&B, Experian/Equifax etc. Then if they still haven't paid by 60 or 90 days or whatever talk to a lawyer about the cheapest way to threaten them.

</comment><comment><USER13> Two questions that might help in framing a response:

1) are they already already using the code you developed?

2) if so, in what manner? Is it an in-house tool for them? A platform they are using to provide services? Some sort of code that's further distributed or sublicensed?

Thanks.

<comment><USER13> Just to clarify, I think focusing on threats to sue them for the debt are overly narrow. Depending on what they are doing with the IP (if anything), you have potential copyright infringement claims. Those claims carry with them the potential for statutory penalties (could be 6-figures per work infringed).

If I were to threaten them, that would be a big part of the threat. But, of course, it depends on if they are using the IP and how.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> And when all else fails.. there's the rat: [http://www.bigskyballoons.com/ratpack.html](http://www.bigskyballoons.com/ratpack.html)

</comment><comment><USER23> Attorney on contingency. Or report to credit agencies. or both.

</comment><comment><USER24> STOP! Spend your time and energy on clients that pay.

<comment><USER6> Wrong. Depending on the contract and exact details of this situation, the client could turn around and sue him. He needs a lawyer, even if he wants to walk away.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> The only way you are getting paid is releasing the MVP asap. Make a new agreement with the COO with some sort of acceptable terms. Attorneys will just take your money $5k ( you likely do not have ) and give you false promises. Your chances of getting anything without the MVP being released is 0. You might even offer to host it yourself.

<comment><AUTHOR> "The only way you are getting paid is releasing the MVP asap" \-- this is impossible for us to do since we would need to spend a ton of time understanding their existing backend ( 4yrs old ) and at this point this MVP is worthless to them if they are truly imploding financially.

<comment><USER26> Yeah, that's not good advice. You're throwing good money after bad there.

The lesson learned here: work off a retainer system the way most lawyers do. I get two weeks of billable hours from clients up front; then I send them an invoice every week, giving them a week to pay it, at which point they've burned through the remainder of their retainer unless they keep current on invoices. That way I'm never out if they up and decide they're running out of money.

Your best option now is to talk to an attorney experienced in debt collection from insolvent entities. If they're going belly up, then the assets are going to be liquidated, and you want to be as close to the front of the line as you can get. Depending on the state, debts may have to be paid before employees are (though the pro-labor side of me thinks that's kind of shitty.) Be frank with them, but professional, and let them know while you understand the difficulties they're in, you have to take steps to protect your own business, so while you hope that you can work it out eventually you need to involve your attorney at this point to ensure your place in line.

Chances are, you still won't see anything, which sucks, I've been there. I hope it works out for you.</comment></comment></comment>


I'll build your MVP in a few months and support it for the year - <AUTHOR> http://appsonify.com

<comment><USER2> This is not a Show HN. Please read the rules: [https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html).

</comment><comment><USER3> Which country are you based in?

<comment><AUTHOR> Canada.</comment></comment>


Braintree Buys Venmo for $26.2 Million - <AUTHOR> http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/16/payments-start-up-braintree-buys-venmo-for-26-2-million/ <comment><USER3> What I love about Venmo is that they took payment processing and aggressively went after a niche - 'spotting' or paying back a friend for cash - <USER2> the app to that unique experience. Good job Venmo!

</comment><comment><USER4> Very glad to see this. Venmo is possibly the most useful app on my phone, and one of my favorite products.

</comment><comment><USER5> Is it just me or is the number kinda low, based on Venmo's success so far (and the financial predictions)?

<comment><USER6> There have been several "pay-your-friends" apps that achieve a lot of success for a while because they're free, then lose all momentum when they start charging. I'm not sure if Venmo is in the same boat, but it seems possible.

<comment><USER7> I remember waaaaay back in the day when PayPal was called Confinity and they were doing this for PalmPilot. They pivoted and the rest is history.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Smart move, Venmo has a pretty solid product. Congrats to their team!

</comment><comment><USER9> Congrats Iqram, Kortina, and team!

<comment><USER10> Thanks, Ivan. For those who are wondering, the Venmo apps aren't going away: <http://bit.ly/bt-venmo>

<comment><USER11> Interested in revenue vs exit valuation... Can you say anything about it? The margins must be phenomenally low if the valuation was only 10% of what you process _yearly_...

<comment><USER12> If you process $260mm and charge 0% it's not really fair to view $26mm as a 10% revenue multiplier.

(Even for the small part of their business funded by credit cards, there's a $500 per customer lifetime exemption, and 3% minus higher fraud rate and 2-2.5+% CNP processor and interchange still puts their revenue at less than a small team's salary with 100% credit cards, and probably less than $100k/yr revenue on credit cards overall.

They're obviously being bought for team, technology, and growth potential; current customers are just traction, not revenue.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> That's nice, but calling Braintree a startup is quite a stretch. (The article doesn't, it's just the HN headline.)

<comment><USER14> Judging by the URL, I think the article _used_ to call it a startup and was then edited.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Congrats! I went to school in Philadelphia, I think Kortina paid for cheesesteaks at a hackathon once..

<comment><USER10> That's a tradition--we'll be doing the same at pennapps again in a few weeks.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> Massive congrats guys! :)</comment>


Ask HN: How can ZFS benefit me? - <AUTHOR> I'm an undergraduate in Statistics. I read some articles about how great ZFS is, but most of them mainly talk about data integrity. Of course that's important, but I didn't lose any data with the 256G SSD of my MacBook Pro for years anyway (I accidentally deleted some files once, but that's a human error).
I'm also not using RAID to store Zebibytes of data, and speaking of encryption and read/write efficiency, other filesystems can offer similiar fetures.
So, how can ZFS benefit me? <comment><USER2> You didn't lose anything that you know about, but that's only because OSX cannot tell when something gets lost. If a single bit were flipped in one of your files, it might look like a typo, or single frame of video with a minor glitch, or it might be a program that crashed for no apparent reason.

I use ZFS, and there aren't errors all that often; only once in the last four years or so. ZFS was able to recover the data and give it to the application, and everything was fine. The only reason I know about it is that ZFS keeps a count of how often it happens on every drive in your system: not very often, but too often.

</comment><comment><USER3> ZFS benefited you by inventing features that were later copied by the filesystem that you currently use.</comment>


Football and why hiring right people is important - <AUTHOR> https://blog.hackerrank.com/football-hiring-right-people/

<comment><USER2> "waving their CS degrees and have nothing to show for it."</comment>


Microsoft Moves from Followership to Leadership - <AUTHOR> http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkotter/2012/07/05/microsoft-moves-from-followership-to-leadership/

<comment><USER2> Dear god what buzz-word laden soup. Switch out the brands and this article could just as well be about Nokia or GM or whatever BigCo.

<comment><USER3> The author's description is also a buzz-phrase:

Randy Ottinger is an Executive Vice President at Kotter International, a firm that helps leaders accelerate strategy implementation in their organizations.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Whether or not this article is fluff or insight depends on what Microsoft is doing: Are they creating a new product category?

What if you could dock a tablet and run it with the power of a desktop PC? If the dock/undock experience could be made seamless, then this would constitute a new product category. (It would be somewhat like the OQO <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OQO> )

If there was a docking mode that wirelessly linked and activated the screens just on device proximity without plugging in, then you could make the workstation/tablet transition relatively painless. There would be some lag with the wireless mode, but it should be good enough for light, mainly read- only actions. Plugging in would seamlessly transition to the desktop mode.

Add a wireless mode that links to the desktop display/input devices across WiFi, and you have a workable new product category.

</comment><comment><USER5> If they were truly leading, they would apply the Metro UI to a 30-inch touchable drafting table, tilted at 45 degrees (see the original Jeff Han multitouch demos).

Portable/casual computing has already been reinvented; it's time to do the same to the high-end professional workstation.

<comment><USER6> You can already do that with a mount. Windows 8 is display size agnostic.

Example of a 80inch TV with a touchscreen running Windows 8

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUFv4C4fVzE&feature=playe...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUFv4C4fVzE&feature=player_detailpage#t=4399s)

<comment><USER5> But they're hardly making that environment their flagship; instead, they're making a (pretty decent) iPad clone with a better keyboard and a stand. They should be focusing on the environment where both the iPad and the PC underperform (relative to the possibility space): knowledge work and the enterprise. Microsoft needs to leapfrog, not catch up.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> If Microsoft could actually release a desktop operating system that is properly designed visually and in terms of user experience, people could actually admire their PC's like they do in all of their stupid commercials. Their market share is so massive that a success in the desktop space could then drive growth in mobile as they actually have build a good UX there.

<comment><USER8> They have. It's called Windows and it _does_ have a properly designed interface which is very robust and flexible. People not only admire it, they adore it so much that they don't want Microsoft to change it in any way.

I suppose that you think OS X is better? Well, that's like, your opinion man. I disagree and so do millions upon millions of other people.

<comment><USER9> OP was talking about user experience, not user interface. I don't know anyone who admires the UX of Windows, but lots that enjoy the UI. Examples of the differences: Windows will still show you focus-stealing dialogs that may result in a total shutdown of the OS if you're busy typing. Windows will still by default reboot if you walk away for 15 minutes and it decides to update. Application installation and uninstallation is still a pain for most users. Multiple monitors are not supported well. There are no virtual desktops.

The user experience on Windows is distinctly subpar to every other operating system I've ever used. I know this is my opinion and I know that there are probably millions who disagree with me. But as I've said, I've not met any yet.

<comment><USER6> >Multiple monitors are not supported well

What do you mean by that?

<comment><USER9> Let's say I have 20-30 windows open on a laptop connected to an external monitor (I do, right now). Windows 7 has one taskbar, and so it becomes extremely difficult/near impossible to quickly determine which window is on which screen. This could be improved by adding a second taskbar (I think this is coming in Windows 8?) but I think more is needed.

Additionally: some application titlebars can be dragged so the window appears on a different screen, but some cannot. Excel, when maximized, cannot be dragged to another screen.

Back to taskbar issues: My biggest complain pre-Windows 7 was that you could not reorder items. I thought they fixed it, but they actually made it a lot more annoying with W7. I think Windows assumes that each window of an application is related to the other windows ( _never_ the case with my workflow) and so you cannot separate them by dragging. Say I have 5 Firefox windows with a few tabs each, where each window's tabs represent a collection of related topics. Now say I have some Word and Excel documents also open that relate to the browser windows. I'd like to arrange Topic 1 from Firefox, Word and Excel on one monitor with their taskbar items together, Topic 2 on the second monitor with their items together, etc. It's very unpleasant and difficult to manage windows on Windows.

<comment><USER8> Here's the thing...just because you aren't getting something _exactly_ the way you want it...does not mean that the UX is somehow awful for every person using it.

Furthermore, Windows has left the hooks available for people so that they can change something if they don't like it. That's the best UX present any company can give you.

There are plenty of apps out there to modify Windows. As a matter of fact, there's very little that can't be modified. Why don't you just look around for some program to do what you want?

<comment><USER9> > does not mean that the UX is somehow awful for every person using it.

Oh I know - I was merely giving my own opinion.

> Why don't you just look around for some program to do what you want?

I'm not allowed to. This is a business computer, not a personal machine. Not everyone has the freedom to install third-party software to fix up bad UX in the OS they are using.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Showing the world some 2-years old tech doesn't turn a dinosaur into a cheetah.

</comment><comment><USER11> If urgency is one of the qualities of a leadership then yes Microsoft seems keen to create new products rather than just sit on the sidelines until somebody creates a market. Microsoft has been burnt badly by following that approach. iPod, iPhone, iPad are all examples of that and that is why others are eating Microsoft's lunch.</comment>


An effective way for GOOG to punish scrapers? - <AUTHOR>

As was suggested elsewhere, there's blacklisting if you're logged in. But that's rife for abuse.
It would take more horsepower, but Google has plenty of that. I'm sure someone at Google has thought of this; or is thinking about implementing this; or has completely dismissed this as impossible/ineffective; but I wanted to throw it out there to see what HN thinks about it.
Determine the canonical source. In this case, a Stack Overflow post. Each site that scrapes the content from the Stack Overflow post increases the site rank for said Stack Overflow post.
On one hand, it will increase any rank for original content that gets recycled and spread across the 'net: reblogged Tumblr posts; retweeted Tweets.
On the other hand, it puts another tool in the hands of black hats.
Thoughts? <comment><USER2> _Determine the canonical source._

Well, that's the hard bit, isn't it? What are the consequences of getting it wrong? If Google bans my site from their index because it thinks I stole my content from a scraper, that's going to be hard to take.

<comment><USER3> Not really. Sure if they auto-ban you it sucks, but how hard is it to post something, inform google of it and wait x hours for it to show up on some autoscraper site. (of course this requires google cooperation).

Edit: it seems like a good solution from google POV would be to _inform_ people of their impending banning and give them the chance to defend themselves by posting original content that then gets scraped elsewhere.

<comment><USER2> Surely it's not that hard for a scraper to post something original, inform Google, wait X hours, then plant it on StackOverflow/wherever?

<comment><USER4> If the parasite kills its host...

<comment><USER2> A parasite that kills its only host didn't have enough hosts.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Not all scraping is bad: some provide extra services such as search.

Google itself is a scraper.</comment>


Show HN: Interactive, Visual Explanation of the GRAIL Handwriting Recognizer - <AUTHOR> http://jackschaedler.github.io/handwriting-recognition/ <comment><USER2> Nice demos. This is what "literate programming" should be like really :)

It is unfortunate that it can't recognize lowercase/uppercase, and that F and X have to be drawn in a quirky way to be properly recognized. Also I had problems with inputting "K".

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks! I'll take some time this evening to make it a bit better at picking out the K.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> This looks 99% identical to what Palm developed as Graffiti. Graffiti ran nicely on a 16MHz (later 33MHz) 68030ish microprocessor with 512KB of RAM and a 160x160 LCD display with a resistive touchscreen.

I think that I'm faster on an Android soft-keyboard with prediction and sliding, but not by very much.

</comment><comment><USER4> Worth looking at the linked video. Pretty impressive what they could do using late 1960's technology.

</comment><comment><USER5> Thanks for this wonderful essay! I love learning about that period in computing, when a lot of what we use today was first challenged. It's easy to see how those same principles apply to the GRaIL visual programming interface demo[1], where different strokes create different types of elements (boxes, outputs, connections, ...).

[1]: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQhVQ1UG6aM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQhVQ1UG6aM)

</comment><comment><USER6> It reminds me of the Palm handwriting recognition system. I liked there was no pretensions of natural handwriting recognition on the Palm. The awkward way you had to draw letters with the stylus was part of the UI, so little stroke order hints were displayed on the screen while you were writing. It made for a fairly efficient input system after a bit of practice, like txting on old phones.

I assume the Palm system worked on similar principles to GRAIL.

</comment><comment><USER7> It could be worth mentioning that, for thinning points, ideally you'd use a circle, so that points are thinned equally in all directions. When you use a square, diagonal lines are thinned more (by a factor of sqrt(2)) than horizontal/vertical lines. However, checking inclusion within a axis-aligned square requires only comparisons/subtractions, but checking inclusion within a circle requires square roots and squares... certainly a big deal back then.

<comment><AUTHOR> This is a great point. When I first implemented the visualization, I actually used a circle until someone pointed out to me that the formula describes a square region around the datapoint and not a circle. I think you are very right in saying that this decision was made by Groner solely for efficiencies' sake in 1966. I'll probably add a side-note to explain this a bit.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> This is great! You've already linked to Bret Victor's work, but I'll pay you the compliment of saying this essay and demonstration is up there with some of his productions.

</comment><comment><USER9> for recent(ish) activity [https://depts.washington.edu/aimgroup/proj/dollar/](https://depts.washington.edu/aimgroup/proj/dollar/)

</comment><comment><USER10> Nice demo. I've never been able to get it to recognise B, no matter how I draw it.

<comment><USER11> Same thing for me on O. I tried clockwise, counter clockwise both failed.

Then I tried starting from top instead of bottom. Don't people start from bottom? It should be easier to align.

<comment><AUTHOR> Oh goodness, haha. Doing this project I've learned that there is a _great_ deal of variety in handwriting style. Single-stroke vs. Multi-stroke 5 for example, seems to be a big point of contention. I'll extend the decision tree to be more friendly about bottom-starting strokes.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Great! The linked demos give a very creative feel.</comment>


Why you should sell your iPhone 4 and buy a Galaxy Nexus - <AUTHOR> http://www.extremetech.com/computing/109405-whys-you-should-sell-your-iphone-4-and-buy-a-galaxy-nexus <comment><USER2> "no locked-down features," except Google Wallet on Verizon..

source: [http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/6/2615907/verizon-google- wal...](http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/6/2615907/verizon-google-wallet-wont- launch-on-the-galaxy-nexus-but-commercial)</comment>


Maybe Large Companies are Fundamentally Flawed - <AUTHOR> http://www.jacksonfish.com/blog/2008/03/24/maybe-large-companies-are-fundamentally-flawed/

<comment><USER2> Good read, but misses the point that big (and especially public) companies became big by optimizing for profit and revenue growth, and shareholder returns. Employee and customer satisfaction are pursued only if they help drive those two goals.

</comment><comment><USER3> Companies exist in large part to avoid transaction costs of using several autonomous market agents (the thesis of _The Nature of the Firm_ [http://www.cerna.ensmp.fr/Enseignement/CoursEcoIndus/Support...](http://www.cerna.ensmp.fr/Enseignement/CoursEcoIndus/SupportsdeCours/COASE.pdf) by Ronald Coase, 1937)

Vertically integrated companies can avoid more transactions costs, making them more valuable.

The author doesn't seem to appreciate why large, vertically integrated companies are fundamentally valuable.

</comment><comment><USER4> Actually, I think that is the point. Big companies are not necessarily always optimizing for employee and customer satisfaction. And frankly, with their size, creating a sustainable healthy internal environment becomes more and more difficult.

And although, as you say, the big guys don't always optimize around employee and customer satisfaction can you name one that would admit that?

One other note: small companies need to focus on profit as well or they won't have employees or customers for long.</comment>


Show HN: An old terminal HTML template - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/victorqribeiro/oldTerminal <comment><USER2> Neat. Although it is sort of an anachronistic mishmash of different eras. The mouse interface and colour scheme reminds me of old MS-DOS apps. But the font used is based on 1980s arcade games – [https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Press+Start+2P](https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Press+Start+2P) – and is much more blocky than what one usually encountered on those mouse- enabled MS-DOS apps. And the 300 baud style slowness doesn't really fit with the colourful mouse-enabled UI – mouse interfaces on BBSs or remote hosts were rare, and by the time they started to appear modem connection speeds had improved significantly.

<comment><AUTHOR> yes, at first I was trying to reproduce a software from msdos era. after a while trying fonts and colors I end up with this style. I was going to use it on my own webpage, but then I just released to see if other people would like ut. I'm glad they did

<comment><USER2> It's your project, you can make it look however you like, and if you like how it is now, that's great.

If however you wanted to go for a more authentic MS-DOS look, consider using these fonts instead – [https://int10h.org/oldschool-pc- fonts/](https://int10h.org/oldschool-pc-fonts/) – they are identical (down to the pixel) with the original BIOS fonts used in IBM PC and compatible hardware.

<comment><AUTHOR> I have just uploaded a new version with the font you suggested. Thanks.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> It's really good.

Function keys would be nice, the original green screen with function key strip at the bottom of the screen interface is still one that I think is a good one.

Another small thing, it could be made to work with the HTML elements that are semantic rather than presentational. So no div elements and magic classes, just sections, headers, footers, asides, nav and those sorts of things.

In that way the content could be neatly structured and look good with a normal stylesheet, or, do the terminal mode (s).

I have had a go at terminal mode myself and the Holy Grail is to do a compelling CRT impression with the slight curve of the screen. Not worked out how to do that yet. Phosphor glow is fine but I want to do the live lens distortion on HMTL content.

As an added Easter Egg to your terminal you could get print mode to do the green stripes on the paper look.

<comment><USER4> Green stripes on the paper idea for printing is great.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> There is also [https://github.com/kristopolous/BOOTSTRA.386](https://github.com/kristopolous/BOOTSTRA.386)

<comment><AUTHOR> I didn't know about this one. I made mine as a simple jsfiddle sketch two years or so ago. Yesterday I've decided to upload it to see if someone cares for it.

<comment><USER5> Yours looks very nice also. Thanks for sharing :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Fantastic! I've been trying to build something similar for [https://TokyoTech.com](https://TokyoTech.com) , but keep fighting with how to display larger content. Once something solidifies, I'll release it on GitHub too. Would love to add support for vim color theme files.

<comment><USER7> And vim keybindings please :)

<comment><AUTHOR> first letter of the menu opens it?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Love it. One of my early websites was trying to build something like this (in style at least, I didn't have any interactivity).

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> I just added the green on black color scheme. It has some glow on it to mimic the CRT glow.

</comment><comment><USER9> minor UI enhancement:

        line-height: 1.5em

would make it more believable.

<comment><AUTHOR> I'll test that

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> reminds me of a low-res foxpro

</comment><comment><USER11> but why...?

<comment><USER12> Nostalgia?

<comment><USER11> of what? it seems to miss whatever its aiming at.</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: opinion on the landing page of my startup - <AUTHOR>

Hello,
it's still in a test page
http://test.bluetouchdev.com/
We're about to officially launch the app at the end of June, with press release, video and everything - we're actually already in the App Store, without any kind of promotion, pretty good results -
I'd love some honest opinions about the contents (correct grammar? I'm Italian!) and the general ideas and copywriting.
For example:
- the Advertising, is it good to "promote" it even if we still haven't really started to work on it? Just planned how it will work.
- ask for a donation is a good thing? we don't have any external funds, and for now we don't have any revenue to pay servers and extras (we planned how to get revenue, but we need some months before launching the new features)
Best, Filippo
the contact form is not working at the moment. <comment><USER2> Clickety click ... [http://test.bluetouchdev.com/](http://test.bluetouchdev.com/)

Personally, and I'm just speaking for myself, and I'm a curmudgeonly old man, I _hate_ these swish, slick, things sliding in from here, there and everywhere, type of web pages.

Give me something to see, something to read, something to understand what you do, and a clear call for action in the case I'm your audience. This takes for _ever_ to get to the point, and I'm still not sure I understand what you do.

I'm probably not in your demographic, but if I can't see on the first page something, anything, to engage me, I'm out.

Pretty sure I'm not the only one. It's an impatient audience you have, and without a clear something on the first view, you've lost them.

It's gorgeous, though. Is that all you want?

 _Added in edit: In fact, pretty much everything I said in an earlier comment[0] applies to this too._

[0] [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7839799](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7839799)

<comment><AUTHOR> Hello Colin,

thanks for the honest feedback. Well, about the swish and slide, yea It's true that is more of a fancy thing than the real utility, totally agree but no, is not that all I want.

Interesting point the call to action and something to engage. I thought that the video could work, but looks like is not. Maybe I can modify the first "page" in:

We love vinyl records Join us and start sharing your collection.

True as well that is not clear what Needle is, a social network. Is not mentioned, I need to clarify this as well.

We got and endless to do list on server and app, and I'm totally into the project since long time so I guess I'm loosing my focus from the users view.

<comment><USER2> Have something to lead the reader through ...

        Love Vinyl?

            Share your collection ...

                Find new possibilities ...

                    Connect with other vinyl lovers ...

... then draw them onwards. You need to be like a Dan Brown novel, short chapters that always finish on a cliff-hanger, leaving the reader wanting to read on, unwilling to stop, wondering what happens next.

Remember, these are just my thoughts, and I'm probably not in your demographic. Take the comments and try to see it from the view of a potential user who has no idea what you do. That's hard.

<comment><AUTHOR> Hello Colin, I updated the website, followed some of your suggestion. Thanks!

[http://test.bluetouchdev.com/](http://test.bluetouchdev.com/)

<comment><USER2> That's clearer - yes. It's not obvious that you can scroll, and the colors feel a bit, well, wishy-washy - flat and insipid. Some people prefer that, but I like something crisper.

The text "The social network for vinyl records lovers." gives an immediate sense of what it's about, but I'd like to see it take a more prominent role - it gets a little lost in the color scheme.

But I think it's a real improvement. Do _you_ think it's better? Given the questions I was asking initially, do you think it now better meets the goals of a landing page? Does it need to have the words "Share", "Discover", "Uncover", "Surprise", "Adventure", or something else to create curiosity?

Those are random thoughts - I haven't time for more. Good luck.

<comment><AUTHOR> Hello Colin, yes I definately think that now is better! Thanks for your suggestions

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> There are some good points made here.

I would change the opening headline into a benefit to the immediate benefit for the reader. Something along the lines of:

"Share your vinyl collection with the world and discover theirs"

Then add a subtle pitch about Needle:

"If you love vinyl, you'll love Needle"

After that, I would offer the call to action. Your current call to action needs some attention.

You have 2 buttons next to each other that are the same size. Both are ghost buttons. Both are asking the reader to take two different paths.

What do you want the user to do most?

I'm assuming you want them to download the app from the App Store. Make that button the biggest. Make it a solid color that pops out from the background. I would test both an Orange button and a Green button to see which gets the most clicks.

I would add the "Available on the App Store" to your Download button to add that immediate sense of security that this is a real verified app backed by Apple. Even though it isn't, people get that impression and it helps to have it front and center with the action you want them to take.

I would change the "Watch the Video" button to a text link under the download button. That will be the indicator to let the visitor know that they can scroll down to see more. Add a downward arrow icon under it and you create a path to continue moving down for more information. Repeat that arrow throughout the page to create motion.

Back to the headline, I would remove the large logo and put your headline there. You have branding in the upper left corner. There's really no need to repeat it, especially in that most important real estate.

Regarding the content, it could use a proof-read. I don't mean any offense but it reads like English may not be your first language.

There are grammar issues here and there that could be cleaned up, for example:

"we got lot of ideas" should be "we have a lot of ideas" or "we've got a lot of ideas".

I would move the Record Labels and Advertise to separate landing pages devoted to those features. This landing page should be about downloading the app and becoming part of a worldwide vinyl loving community.

If I were a vinyl enthusiast, I wouldn't care about the record label part.

Though it isn't necessary, I would add in some imagery or icons to the content. It's pretty text heavy (even though the textual content is minimal).

For example, putting the "Share", "Dig", "Stream" content blocks next to each other with some nice related icons above the respective content would reader really well, catch people's attention and visually shorten that content section.

I like that you used some language that is familiar to vinyl lovers. "Dig through thousands of vinyl records..." captures a real emotion for vinyl enthusiasts. Now if you had a nice illustration that helped bring it home, it would work well.

Last thing I would do is tweak the black and white background with the record. It doesn't have enough contrast with the white text over it and you have to scroll up and down to read the content sometimes as the white text blends in with the white of the image.

Overall, it is a nice design. It has a hip feel to it in that it uses some current trends.

Good Luck with the app.

</comment><comment><USER4> There are two conflicting call to actions on top of each other (app store & scroll)

You don't have to have lots of scroll to communicate your message.

See these examples for inspiration:

\- [https://www.chownow.com](https://www.chownow.com)

\- [http://theweathertron.com](http://theweathertron.com)

\- [http://human.co](http://human.co)

\- [http://www.everest.com](http://www.everest.com)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the inspirations!

Here's the new version - [http://test.bluetouchdev.com/](http://test.bluetouchdev.com/)

Feedback is appreciated again

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Hi Filippo

Following up from from ColinWright's comment, I'd also have liked a short "About" section which can describe in a couple of lines what the app does and how it helps users.

The design is nice but emphasize the content and you will be good.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks! good idea the About section</comment></comment>