Formula for Healthy Sleep by Piotr Wozniak - <AUTHOR> http://www.supermemo.com/articles/sleepchart.htm

<comment><USER2> Thanks for posting. I read this:

 _For example, DSPS students often get a short sleep in the night, wake up early with an alarm clock, go to school where they are semi-conscious and perform poorly, get a solid nap after school and only late in the evening they regain vigor and their full mental powers. DSPS students feel best after midnight when everyone else is asleep and they can focus on learning or other activities (reading, Internet, watching TV, computer games, etc.)._

And thought, "this article is about me".

In an effort to understand my own sleep patterns, I bought a Zeo. After a week or so, I think I've found how things work. If I get a lot of deep sleep, I may not "feel awake" or refreshed, but I can think really well. If I get a lot of REM sleep, I feel great, but may not be in the mood to do anything. With that in mind, I am trying to figure out how to get a good amount of both in the same sleeping session.

I haven't had a chance to try this yet, but my plan is to tire myself out (hopefully corresponding to nighttime, just to be in sync with the real world), get a lot of deep sleep, and then when I wake up, check that I've gotten enough REM sleep. If not, back to bed until I feel satisfied. (I am pretty good at getting REM sleep in the morning. Alarm goes off, alarm set for +1:30, and I get about 1:15 worth of REM sleep. Great dreams in this period too. It helps that my work schedule boils down to "try and show up before 2" :)

Anyway, I guess I don't have enough data to say anything conclusive, but this is my plan.

</comment><comment><USER3> _Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome_

Holy crap, what I do _has a name_. That's comforting.

This "syndrome" comes and goes in cycles, for me. Currently, I'm enjoying regular "day" days. In about a two weeks I'll naturally switch into nocturnal mode, for about three weeks. After these three weeks I'll spend 3-4 four days "fixing" my sleeping schedule....

Is this how it is for other DSPS persons here? I highly value my sleep and vivid dreams, which are very prominent during the DSPS episodes, and I honestly feel more productive and creative in that time.

Someone once told me that the best thinking occurs at 3am, which is when the local world around you is most quiet and you can think more clearly. I think she said it was some Buddhist thing, though I can't remember exactly what she said. I always thought that was neat, and concurs with my experience of being able to focus better in the middle of the night.

<comment><USER4> I just found out about this two days ago (another post on here). I don't have a cycle quite like you describe -- I'm generally always in nocturnal mode, except when I make the mistake to try staying up all night (despite telling myself never to do it again no matter what), after which I may end up in a "day" day mode where I get up at 7-8 am like normal people. Except when I do that my brain still doesn't turn on until the afternoon.

This thing has been plaguing me all my life, made high school and college a total nightmare except where I could finagle afternoon classes. I mean, personally I love staying up late doing stuff, but it's a pain to try aligning that with other people's schedules.

<comment><USER3> In high school, there were a few months where I managed to arrange my sleeping schedule so I slept from when when I got home from school to about 11pm-1am. It worked really well, but my mom didn't like it.

<comment><USER4> My parents tried the iron fist approach: i had to wake up by a certain time on saturdays and sundays or they would ban me from using the computer. If I missed the bus for sleeping too late, no computer. Needless to say that this didn't work -- I just stayed up until they were asleep and used the computer then.

The salient feature of my adolescence was a grueling and protracted war with my parents over school performance vs. computer usage/sleep habits. Makes me wonder how things would have turned out if I'd learned about DSPS when I was maybe 14 or something.

<comment><USER5> Not that much different. My parents didn't believe in DSPS or on a pragmatic level thought it could be cured through training; how could you possibly live a responsible life in the normal world without fixing it?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I've known about DSPS for about five years now. Problem is, the world doesn't accommodate you anyway (my time in HS/college was absolutely terrible; I'm just getting out now), so I've resorted to using tricks like light therapy and taking melatonin at night. Even tried the Tim Ferriss method of ice baths when I needed to sleep for finals. My experience is that I can only temporarily hack my sleep to be 'normal' for about two weeks, max, and then it veers off again.

Hell, this is probably a big reason I'd like to get into startups and such. I don't think I could survive a normal job schedule and the progressive shift is too unpredictable for most companies.

How are you liking the Zeo?

</comment><comment><USER4> _However, DSPS individuals may have their clocks running periods long enough to find it hard to fit to 24 hours. They also push their clocks ahead by activity late in the evening (the process opposite to the morning reset synchronization). DSPS individuals, when given a chance to sleep when they want, will tend to go to sleep later and later. They will also wake up later and later._

This is a perfect description of my dilemma. I've been struggling with school/college for years because of this crap -- now at least I have a reasonable excuse for all the classes I withdrew from to avoid failing.

</comment><comment><USER6> any formula is irrelevant for married people.

And funny how this became a me-too thread.

<comment><USER6> maybe ppl ought start adding "we accomodate dsps" in job descriptions at startups here.</comment></comment>


Sequelize ORM NPM library found vulnerable to SQL Injection attacks - <AUTHOR> https://snyk.io/blog/sequelize-orm-npm-library-found-vulnerable-to-sql-injection-attacks/ <comment><AUTHOR> kudos to Kirill from the security research team who worked on this discovery as well as providing the fixes (!) and many thanks and appreciation to the Sequelize project maintainers who worked with us on the responsible disclosure and promptly issued fixes to vulnerable versions where necessary.

Sequelize is a pretty popular ORM for Node.js projects so you should probably test your project with snyk and ensure you aren't vulnerable (npm audit is still lagging behind on this vulnerability for 24 days currently).</comment>


The Days of IP-based Management are Numbered - <AUTHOR> http://devcentral.f5.com/weblogs/macvittie/archive/2009/02/19/the-days-of-ip-based-management-are-numbered.aspx

<comment><USER2> The Days of Captcha based feedback are Numbered</comment>


Java Mutation Testing - <AUTHOR> http://pitest.org/ <comment><USER3> I can't believe I've never heard of this. It looks really useful.

Thanks for sharing. I will play with it today!

Relevant plugin for IntelliJ: [https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/7119?pr=idea](https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/7119?pr=idea)

<comment><USER4> I'd recommend using one of the build tool integrations first - they're part of the core project. The IDE integrations still needed a bit of work last time I looked at them.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> That's an interesting concept - testing the tests themselves.

<comment><USER6> I used to use a very convoluted coverage setup with my Rails apps to ensure that coverage was only counted for the parts directly under test. To clarify: it's pretty easy in a Rails app to write an integration test that hits one endpoint and uses every model.

Because end-to-end integration tests don't actually _assert_ anything about model properties, it's incorrect to record model coverage during such tests. So each controller test only recorded coverage for the controller it was testing (and nothing else), each model test only recorded coverage for the model it was testing (and nothing else), etc.

Of course, in a more IoC/DI-type system (Spring, etc.) well-written tests don't interact with other objects in the first place: stubs or mocks are injected. In that case it's easier to ensure a test for a given component only exercises that one component, but you _still_ have to verify that your assertions are meaningful for the coverage to ultimately mean anything.

So I guess what I'm saying is even with all those precautions and thought, a tool like this is _extremely_ useful to tell you "uh, hey, this method you think exercises all your code isn't actually asserting anything meaningful about your code's behavior". More of this, please!

<comment><USER4> If you're working with ruby mutant is pretty good -> [https://github.com/mbj/mutant](https://github.com/mbj/mutant)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> A problem with this is that sometimes nondeterminism is OK.

For instance, changing the constant to another prime in the "classic" hashcode implementation (repeatedly multiply by a prime and add the next field) will (probably) not trigger any (well-written) tests, and indeed generally won't be detrimental at all, but will be flagged by this sort of test.

<comment><USER4> This is what it known an "equivalent mutation".

Along with high computational cost, it's one of the things identified in academic research as preventing the widespread use of mutation testing. There is no general method for distinguishing an equivalent mutation from a normal surviving one except for getting a human to have a look at it.

Having built pitest to address the concerns around computational cost, it was a pleasant surprise to find out that in practice equivalent mutations are not much of a problem.

This isn't entirely by accident - the default set of mutation operations are carefully designed to make equivalent mutations unlikely (they don't/can't guarantee not to create them, but they make them as unlikely as possible).

There's a trade off here. Pitest has a smaller set of operators than a lot of research focussed systems. A larger set of operators would catch more issues, but would also create a larger proportion of equivalent mutants (and also take longer to run).

There are more operators you can enable you wish to change this balance - <USER2> operator that changes constants as you describe is one of them.

I rarely encounter equivalent mutants using the default operators and I know of some rollouts of pitest where they break the build on anything less than 100% mutation coverage.

I have no figures to back this up, but I strongly suspect the % of equivalent mutants will be highly dependent on coding style and the domain in which the code operates.

<comment><USER7> > I have no figures to back this up, but I strongly suspect the % of > equivalent mutants will be highly dependent on coding style and the domain > in which the code operates.

Agreed. In everything I've written, at least, I can identify multiple places where such equivalent mutants do exist, even with just the default operators. (In particular, hashcode methods - there are very few mutators that break the contract of a hashcode method, though removing entropy in most cases) But I can easily see that not being the case with other coding styles.

Are the mutations done documented anywhere? I had to look through the source to see what's done.

<comment><USER4> The mutators are documented at [http://pitest.org/quickstart/mutators/](http://pitest.org/quickstart/mutators/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I have used Pitest at work, it is very good and on more than one occasion it unearthed wanting tests.

Unfortunately, we had to remove it from our build. Our CI pipeline uses VM's that were not provisioned with this type of testing in mind and pitest ended up slowing the build enough to make it painful. If we could get past this, I would turn it on in the morning.

<comment><USER9> That's too bad that you had to stop using it.

I've never used one of these tools, but I knew they existed. Just today I was discussing "testing the tests" with a coworker. In my opinion, where I work we write lots of incomplete/illogical tests, sometimes bordering on cargo culting. Aside from code-coverage, which is flawed, we have no real measure of whether the tests we write are effective or not.

<comment><USER10> There is a tool to detect duplicate tests which many have found useful: [http://ortask.com/testless/](http://ortask.com/testless/)

For other kinds of test quality, try Mutator: [http://ortask.com/mutator/](http://ortask.com/mutator/)

<comment><USER9> Thanks for the links!

I hate to sound negative, but something about that website seems dodgy. I'm unconvinced duplicate/overlapping tests -- while obviously undesirable -- have a direct correlation with code quality. Unfortunately, in order to read their "papers" where they elaborate on this, I have to register :/

I'd rather use something open source like pitest.

(Again, thanks for the links! I don't want to sound too negative)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> There seems to be a sbt plugin by the original creator that has not been updated since last year: [https://github.com/hcoles/sbt- pit](https://github.com/hcoles/sbt-pit)

Does anyone know if the current version of pit already works well with scala?

</comment><comment><USER12> so if i read this correctly "This filter will not work for tests that utilise classes via interfaces, reflection or other methods where the dependencies between classes cannot be determined from the byte code."

if you are using interfaces to inject and mock things, it cannot test your code?

this sounds really cool, but most of the stuff we do is down with interfaces...

<comment><USER13> Unit tests should have exactly one system under test. That has to be a class, not an interface.

You may mock dependencies that may/may not be interfaces. This is safer than using concrete dependencies whose behaviors may change once the fuzzer does its thing.

The behaviors of the classes that implement the mocked dependencies have nothing to do with the system under test.

So if you're writing unit tests that exactly one unit, you should be good to go.

<comment><USER14> Regarding one system under test, is there a java library (with maven preferably) that would check that unit test is performing tests on single class and all the rests are mocked (e.g. with mockito, or with custom anonymous classes)?

<comment><USER15> Depending on who you talk to, a unit isn't necessarily a single class.

<comment><USER13> Actually this is a really good talking point that's often the start of many interesting "discussions":

Namely, what happens when you're done with the test-code-repeat cycle for a system under test and you want to make it more architecturally sound / OO / etc.

You typically might end up doing a refactor in which you extract classes from the original system under test and colocating common functionality into new class(es).

In this way you still have the same coverage as before... But you're actually testing multiple classes as a unit.

Some folks would argue you need to split the tests out. Otherwise would say "the coverage is there, what's the point?".

Unless I need to do something, I'm not going to do it.

In playing with pitest, it looks like the refactorings might introduce some fuzzing that needs to be considered in the original (and refactored) SUT depending on how much conditional logic you're moving around.

Arghh. There goes my evening. Will be playing with this after work now :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> if you are the site owner, please correct:

Its fast, ...

with

It's fast,...

</comment><comment><USER10> There are also other great mutation testing tools for other languages, such as Mutator: [http://ortask.com/mutator/](http://ortask.com/mutator/)</comment>


Language Bandwidth (2007) - <AUTHOR> http://lumma.org/microwave/#2007.07.12.2 <comment><AUTHOR> Also see "Comparison of text editing methods", discussed here in 2018: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17898638](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17898638)</comment>


Sit/Stand Desk: IKEA Skarsta Review - <AUTHOR> http://blog.c-mart.in/posts/sit-stand-desk-ikea-skarsta-review <comment><USER2> I've used an Alvin minimaster drafting table ($129) for the past 4 years: [http://www.amazon.com/Alvin-MiniMaster-Adjustable- Drafting-T...](http://www.amazon.com/Alvin-MiniMaster-Adjustable-Drafting- Table/dp/B001EO9UDY/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1454013670&sr=8-3&keywords=alvin+drafting+table) I like it so much that I bought a second one for more desk space.

Along with a drafting chair ($150): [http://www.amazon.com/LexMod-Office- Drafting-Chair-Leatheret...](http://www.amazon.com/LexMod-Office-Drafting- Chair- Leatherette/dp/B00OD3EYUC/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1454013778&sr=8-4&keywords=modway+drafting+chair)

<comment><USER3> I spend entirely more time than I should being semi-baffled at the way the internet has largely forgotten that you can just buy tall chairs and never have to worry about motors or adjustment speed or weight limits (to say nothing of cost).

<comment><USER4> I just had a genius revelation: I, like another poster here, don't like resting my feet on a bar all day. I like to have them planted firmly.

What if we had tall desks and tall office chairs with a flat, elevated platform? Then you could easily plant both feet on the platform and it would feel just like a regular chair, but then you could easily stand up and have a standing desk?

Something like this: [http://www.lkgoodwin.com/more_info/brio_series_chairs/brio_s...](http://www.lkgoodwin.com/more_info/brio_series_chairs/brio_series_chairs.shtml)

<comment><USER5> That's what I did with the "shelf" my Ikea Jerker.

<comment><USER4> Explain. What did you modify?

<comment><USER5> Imagine this desk, but with the two horizontal slabs swapped so that the big surface is at "standing height" while the other is where your feet would be when in a tall office-chair.

[http://imgur.com/d94KObO](http://imgur.com/d94KObO)

<comment><USER4> Oh, nice.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I'm using a Jarvis Standing Desk Frame - [http://www.ergodepot.com/Jarvis_Frame_p/jrv- fr.htm](http://www.ergodepot.com/Jarvis_Frame_p/jrv-fr.htm)

With a 72x36 Maple butcher block top from Amazon - [http://www.amazon.com/Relius-Solutions-Butcher-Block- Maple/d...](http://www.amazon.com/Relius-Solutions-Butcher-Block- Maple/dp/B002JFS93E)

The top easily weighs 200 pounds, and that's not including the 2 Thunderbolt displays that sit on my desk.

It's been a great platform. At my standing height of 45", it needs to be up against the wall or it would likely vibrate a bit. As it stands, it's great.

The pushbutton memory allows for fast adjustment between sitting and standing. I probably transition a couple of times a day. If I'm going to be on the phone a while, I might sit if I'm not pacing.

Even if you simply used it as a regular desk, one of the things that have become most apparent to me is the difference tenths of an inch make in getting your workspace dialed in. Maybe you're wearing different shoes - or no shoes - you can dial in your desk appropriately.

<comment><USER7> I noticed after a couple weeks of using my adjustable desk that I needed to raise the height by ~1" which I think may have been because I started using better posture in standing position. I then had to adjust my sitting table- height as well to compensate.

A mat of some sort is pretty important for me as well since the floor at the office is thin carpet over cement.

<comment><USER6> It's kind of weird once you start using it, that you'll notice the difference in the shoes you're wearing. If I come back from the gym in a pair of running shoes, there's just enough difference where I'll notice it and change the height by a couple of tenths.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Conclusion:

"Overall, the SKARSTA meets expectations. I would recommend it if you want an adjustable-height desk and only want to spend $230. I would not recommend it if you're very tall and want to use this desk near its maximum 47-inch height, or if you need an absolutely rock-solid desk that doesn't sway at all. If your desired surface height is around 41 inches (or lower), you'll probably be happy. Eventually I'll post a long-term review, but if you are reading this, I've had no issues using this desk daily since January 2016."

</comment><comment><USER9> Some new results seem to indicate that merely standing might not avoid the risks currently associated with sitting down all day. This seems to point in the direction that "not doing anything" may be the underlying culprit. I wonder if we can develop more dynamic working environments that could tackle that issue, if this is proven to be the case. An article follows:

"Conclusions: Sitting time was not associated with all-cause mortality risk. The results of this study suggest that policy makers and clinicians should be cautious about placing emphasis on sitting behaviour as a risk factor for mortality that is distinct from the effect of physical activity."

[http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/44/6/1909](http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/44/6/1909)

<comment><USER10> [http://www.theonion.com/article/health-experts-recommend- sta...](http://www.theonion.com/article/health-experts-recommend-standing-up- at-desk-leavi-37957)

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I've been using Skarsta since August 2015 at my home office. I'm pretty satisfied with the desk.

I always wanted a standing desk. I saw pictures of many awesome home-built desks here at HN so I thought that I could built myself one too. However, it turned out that it's not very easy. So I started looking for one at local shops.

Fortunately, IKEA is about 10km from my home so I went there and asked. They told me they have some Skarsta desk. Long story short, I bought it for 200 Euro (the larger version). The assembly took max 1 hour. Initially, the desk was a little "bendy" and unstable, but I discovered that the screws were not tight enough. After tightening them, the desk is pretty stable, even at the highest position.

I'm about 190cm tall and at the highest position, I can comfortably work on the desk. What I like the most about it is that it's pretty huge and spacious. You can put three 22" monitors on it + smaller speakers + mechanical keyboard + notebook for drawing without a problem. Although you have to manually get it up and down with a handle, it usually takes something like 30 seconds and you can look into the monitor while doing that. :) It's a good training for your hands.

All in all, Skarsta is very nice and comfortable standing desk for a reasonable price. Since owning it, I no longer understand all the standing- desk startups with their smallish desks for Macbook + one monitor for 500 bucks. What is more, you can put a spin bike under the desk and exercise while doing a light work, reading or watching videos.

</comment><comment><USER12> Giraffe[1] is starting to lease good quality, motorized standing desks in February for $1/day.

Disclamer: I know the founders and currently working on Slack integration for the desks :)

[1] [http://standupgiraffe.com](http://standupgiraffe.com)

<comment><USER13> Desks need Slack integration?

<comment><USER14> This folks is when you know you are in a tech bubble.

<comment><USER15> [https://twitter.com/internetofshit?lang=en](https://twitter.com/internetofshit?lang=en)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Best sitting/standing desk around: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4-yOB3qFKI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4-yOB3qFKI)

Cranks, motors and the like have nothing on this simple counterweight system.

</comment><comment><USER17> The main reason I prefer an electronic height-adjustable desk is the height presets. Imagine if every time you sat down in your computer chair you had to adjust it from the lowest setting to a comfortable height. How much time would be wasted? It's not the effort of cranking it there, it's determining where the optimal height is. With electronic, you set it once, and then whether you're sitting or standing, your surface is at the ideal height. (Elbows approximately 90 degrees while typing, etc.)

<comment><USER18> I solve this with visual references on the furniture adjacent to the desk. But yeah, presets would be nice on my Bekant.

[http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S29022488/](http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S29022488/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> Here is the very cheap $25 disruptive version made from a cardboard box: [http://oristand.co/](http://oristand.co/)

<comment><USER20> What do they do, ship you an Amazon box, a pair of scissors and a can of spray paint?

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> Uncaught Exception for me. Here's a mirror: [http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:w-GWDIB...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:w-GWDIB_P2oJ:blog.c-mart.in/posts/sit- stand-desk-ikea-skarsta-review+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

</comment><comment><USER22> I bought a sit-stand frame from Ergotron[0] which I fitted my old desk surface onto which saved me quite a bit of money.

I don't like cranks or electronic motors. My criteria for a sit/stand desk was that it must be fast and practically effortless to switch between the two positions. For that you cannot beat a lift-system like the one in the Ergotron.

[0] [http://www.ergotron.com/ProductsDetails/tabid/65/PRDID/757/l...](http://www.ergotron.com/ProductsDetails/tabid/65/PRDID/757/language/en- US/Default.aspx)

<comment><USER23> How is the lowering action? Does it go down smoothly? I have to admit this looks pretty promising, I might have to see if I can find one.

<comment><USER22> It's smooth. It locks into position at set intervals when you release the lever. Fortunately there is a good range of motion and the intervals are rather small (I'd estimate around 2-3cm each?).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> I'm also too tall for it. It also seemed to be more wobbly at the fully extended height.

OTOH it might work for you if you use it with a high stool (like a drafting stool). I had a co-worker that would go back and forth from a regular chair to the high stool and they said it helped their back. YMMV.

<comment><USER25> Any idea what the maximum height of a person would be to use this?

<comment><USER26> For the Ikea Bekant desk, I'm 6'2" and usually have it near its maximum height. I like things a bit higher (relative to my own height) than most, but I still wouldn't expect it to work for someone over say 6'5".

All these adjustable desks start to have perceptible sway when mostly extended. If this really bothers you, consider mounting your monitors separately.

<comment><USER27> The Bekant's EU version goes 3cm higher than the US version. I'm 6'1" and it's nowhere near maximum. A colleague of mine is 6'4" and doesn't max it out either. Height is between 65 and 125cm for the EU version, versus 56 to 122cm for the US version.

<comment><USER28> Interesting, I thought Ikea products were the same worldwide. I guess the American version is made to standard/typical American office furniture dimensions.

[http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/S49061191/](http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/S49061191/)

[http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S49022524/](http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S49022524/)

[http://www.ikea.com/se/sv/catalog/products/S69022537/](http://www.ikea.com/se/sv/catalog/products/S69022537/)

[http://www.ikea.com/dk/da/catalog/products/S69022523/](http://www.ikea.com/dk/da/catalog/products/S69022523/)

The Swedish and Danish versions have the same product code, but the British one is different, yet I don't see any difference in the description. Maybe it's just the different plug.

Americans also benefit from a warning not to be crushed by their furniture.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> I have the motorized version of this desk and agree that it's not built for tall people. I'm about 5'11" and have to use it at its maximum height to be comfortable.

Otherwise love it.

<comment><USER30> That's funny - 5'11 is just about average height for Scandinavian males, so IKEA being Swedish this is a bit surprising.

<comment><USER31> It also depends on the proportions of your arms, I'm 5'10" and my desk is at 41" \- maybe Scandinavian males have short shoulder-to-elbow lenghts? :)

<comment><USER29> Haha, anything's possible. When I bought my road bike, the guy at the shop fitting me said, "you have the torso of a much taller man." What else to say but, "thanks!"

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> We have 3 of the Ikea Bekant motorized standing desks in our office. They are great and we have had zero problems. My favorite feature is the simple mesh cable pocket underneath the desk, which is a great solution for hiding all the cable clutter.

<comment><AUTHOR> How long have you been using them for, and how often are they raised/lowered?

<comment><USER32> Not sure if you'll get an answer from OP but I have a Bekant at home and I've had it for 3 months now or so, and I raise/lower it probably once or twice a week (it spends most of it's time raised).

I've had no problems with the motor and the legs, it raises and lowers quickly and smoothly. The motor and legs do come with a 10 year warranty for what it's worth.

If I have one complaint, it's that it has a tiny bit of wobble, but it's a very minor complaint and not any kind of deal-breaker for me, especially when comparing the price of other motorized sit/stand desks.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> I have the Skarsta (the smaller top). It's pretty good, my only two issues with it are:

1) The top is affixed to the leg brackets using plastic screws, and the top tends to move around a little bit. Definitely wouldn't want to pick up / move the desk by holding onto the top only

2) The top was bowed slightly in the middle on the one I bought. My Apple Keyboard would wobble slightly, so I put masking tape on one of the rubber feet.

</comment><comment><USER34> The cranking and possible mechanical problems with that seem to be the disadvantage. I have found the Varidesk ([http://varidesk.com/](http://varidesk.com/)) to be quite satisfactory. It sits on top of your normal desk and is adjustable in seconds. (I just own one; don't work for or have investment in the company that makes it.)

<comment><USER35> I've been using a Varidesk for about a month now, and I love it. "I just own one", too.

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> I've used this desk for a month or two now. It's great. The only issue is that shaking that happens as the desk descends. Otherwise, it's solid. I'm 6'4" and have about 3" of wood* under each of the four contact-points.

* A 2x10 bucked up into 1' pieces = 8 pieces. Stack 2 under each of four of the desk's feet, and yer set!

</comment><comment><USER37> Cached: [http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:w-GWDIB...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:w-GWDIB_P2oJ:blog.c-mart.in/posts/sit- stand-desk-ikea-skarsta-review+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

</comment><comment><USER38> I purchased the Jarvis desk and wrote a review. I've really enjoyed it. [http://timleland.com/ergo-depot-jarvis-standing-desks- review...](http://timleland.com/ergo-depot-jarvis-standing-desks-review/)

</comment><comment><USER39> I still don't get standing desk, how can you can concentrate deeply while standing? I guess not for everyone.

<comment><USER40> I guess I don't see the connection between standing, sitting, and concentration?

I definitely think typing and using a mouse while standing takes some getting used to (in particular if you rest your arm on an armrest while seated); but concentration itself, to me at least, is not correlated.

I will say I think simply standing as a health benefit exists but is overblown. If you really want health benefits you have to move, so now we're talking about: treadmill desks or exercises.

<comment><USER41> For many people (myself included), standing up feels like working, sitting feels like being lazy.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> > It's doubtful whether IKEA provides any warranty. It's not listed on IKEA's > warranty page. When I called IKEA, I was told that there was a 90-day return > policy with receipt.

Wow, I wasn't aware consumer protection was quite that bad in the USA. I've got a BEKANT (the smaller table-top version that the linked reviews say doesn't exist) and haven't had the slightest problem with it, but I admit I might have been more nervous if not for the 10 year guarantee it's given in the UK.

<comment><USER43> > I wasn't aware consumer protection was quite that bad in the USA

You're of course blaming the wrong culprit. That's on IKEA for not offering a warranty.

Companies should not be forced to offer warranties on products. Instead companies should _mostly_ be left to compete on their offerings. A minimum warranty time won't make sense from one product to another. Six months for this, seven years for that, 90 days for this. Inserting bureaucrats into the process of setting warranties on products is just another small but wonderful way to add to the endless parade of regulation that has seen most of Western Europe's growth plummet to almost nothing for a decade.

<comment><USER42> Firstly, you're confusing correlation and causation. These regulations were introduced in the late 1970's in the UK, not in the last 10 years.

Secondly, the right for redress within 2 years is subject to a legal test for if it is reasonable. Anything that's designed to last less than 2 years should be obvious. For example, by supplying a use-by date on the packaging, or by being a consumable.

Thirdly, companies are left to compete on their offerings. What these regulations do is give consumers the right to legal redress from the seller on grounds of reliability being significantly poorer than expected, something that consumers cannot generally know at the point of purchase. This puts additional competitive pressure on the manufacturer, as poor quality products will damage the seller's profit margin.

Finally, there are no bureaucrats involved. If the seller doesn't meet its obligation the only recourse is legal action. There is no government office of extended warranties, or similar.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER44> I was ecstatic to discover this desk in Ikea a month ago, and I bought it right away. It's so much less expensive than any alternatives I could find, and the material and build quality is superb.

Raising and lowering takes some time, but the brief mechanical labor involved in changing the height is probably a good mental and physical break for the operator. I don't change my desk height often - it stays in standing position 90%+ of the time.

</comment><comment><USER45> I've had the Bekant desk for about a year now. I haven't had problems with the motor or controller. My experience is about the same as the reviewer of the Skarsta. The Bekant isn't super stable at higher heights, but works well. I recommend it.

I'd consider the hand crank next time or if I were filling an office with desks. Motorized isn't really that much of a bonus for me.

<comment><USER46> The BEKANT is definitely hit-or-miss when it comes to reliability. The motors on mine died just over a month after purchasing it, and some searching at the time revealed it to be a pretty common issue. Luckily IKEA has a generous return policy and I was able to return it with no questions asked. When it did work, however, I agree it generally worked well and was mostly stable enough. I just couldn't risk having to disassemble my desk whenever the motors broke.

</comment></comment><comment><USER47> I bought one of these desks as well. I also use it at just about 41 inches when standing.

I think the desk sways a bit more than the article says. That said, I would imagine using a sturdier monitor stand (or an arm clamped to the desk) would counteract that enough to make it more comfortable.

For less than ~$250, I couldn't find a comparable sit/stand desk.

</comment><comment><USER48> "Ikea also sells a motorized BEKANT, which costs twice as much and has bad reviews due to problems with the motors and controller."

I have a BEKANT and I am pretty happy with it. No issues with the motor or controller. Also, it has a 10 year warranty I think. And this being IKEA, getting stuff replaced should be super easy.

</comment><comment><USER49> I bought the autonomous desk from kickstarter for $500 (basic model): [https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/403524037/autonomous- de...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/403524037/autonomous-desk-the- smartest-office-desk-yet-power/description), so far quite happy with it. Really stable, and the table top is of good quality. I can see the author's point where the motor is not necessary but when it's cheap enough (at the low end of the $500-$3000 price range), it's certainly a nice to have feature.

Wobbly desk really bugs me and I would rather have a fixed height desk rather than a wobbly one. Testing the stability (or confirm from other's review) before you buy.

</comment><comment><USER50> You can get a pretty good standing desk in the form of $25 plastic shelves from Walmart. It's what I use every day, and works brilliantly.

If all you're using is a laptop, there may be no need to adjust the height of the desk - just move the laptop to where you need it. Voila.

</comment><comment><USER51> I have the IKEA Skarsta desk too. I am 6'3" tall. Yes, it does wobble a bit. It wobbles less if all pieces are tightened well. For me it is a non-issue even at full height with my laptop. Overall, it's a solid purchased depending on your use case.

</comment><comment><USER52> I didn't think a review for a piece of IKEA furniture would ever make it to the top of HN :)

<comment><USER53> Think of it as a dev tools thread. Those are perennial.

</comment></comment><comment><USER54> Chris, try and get a better chair. A dining table chair is one of the worst options imaginable.

</comment><comment><USER55> I love my Jerker 2.

[https://www.jerkersearcher.com/wp- content/uploads/2015/06/bw...](https://www.jerkersearcher.com/wp- content/uploads/2015/06/bw_jerker_desk_with_name1.png)

<comment><USER56> Jerker - best. desk. ever.

</comment></comment><comment><USER57> I have a relatively expensive Uplift desk. I've had it for about 4 months now and have 0 complaints on the $1200-ish I spent. Here's my protips:

* Get one with a motor in it. Hand cranking sounds awful.

* Get one with presets. Having to hold a button and wait for a desk to go up and down sucks.

* Get one that goes up and down -- sitting or standing all the time sucks.

* Regarding the above items, you'll probably want to move it up and down every 45 minutes to 1.5 hours.

* Just because you can build one for $4 in parts or put your laptop on a box doesn't mean you should. If it looks like you made it out of $4 in parts or is an old diaper box you probably don't actually care about your workspace.

<comment><USER58> lol

> Get one with a motor in it. "Damn I need to get a standing desk. I sit > around too much and don't move around enough. GOD I definitely need to order > the motorized version!"

<comment><USER59> As with many things in life, reducing activation energy can have dramatic effects.

For example: Most of the people I know, even the health conscious, don't get annual physicals. I pressed them on why, and it came down to this: They didn't want to spend a half-day getting it done. There's just too much activation energy: scheduling, commute, checking in, waiting around, finally seeing the doc for 10 minutes, driving back to work. It's even worse when you have to return for labs because they didn't inform you that you should fast before drawing blood for labs. Simply reducing the activation energy goes a long, long way!

<comment><USER60> The last time I got a physical my doctor told me annual physicals are not necessary or recommended for someone my age.

There is such a thing as excessive screening and testing. PSA testing (for prostate cancer) had so many false positives resulting in procedures that were ultimately harmful for the patients that the recommendation to get the test routinely was dropped entirely. Recently the American Cancer Society changed its mammogram recommendation age from 40 to 45. The U.S. Preventive Services Task Force Services went further and suggested 50 should be the age. Again, the reason is false-positives causing harmful outcomes.

<comment><USER61> Here in Japan we have a mandatory once a year checkup, and have to submit the results to our employer. Im still not sure if i agree with the once a year, but it makes my wife worry less.

I greatly disagree with the giving it to the employer part, which is one of the reasons im switchng to freelance work.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER62> Shameless plug,

If anyone is interested, here's a DIY step-by-step guide that will run you $50 for a custom standing desk, no cutting required.

[http://blog.nickjanetakis.com/post/137161793153/build- home-m...](http://blog.nickjanetakis.com/post/137161793153/build-home-made- standing-desk-for-50-dollars)

Spoiler alert:

It's not adjustable but it takes ~10 seconds to move things down a level manually if you really want to sit down.

I recommend resting with a tall chair so you don't have to touch the desk set up.

</comment><comment><USER63> I ended up with one of these: [https://www.standdesk.co/](https://www.standdesk.co/)

$400, easy to build, not super loud considering.

<comment><USER64> > $400

Note that's for just the adjustable base; it's at least $90 more including the surface, depending on options. Looks like the height range is 28-45 inches.

</comment></comment><comment><USER65> I have used this rack as my standing and sitting desk. One rack adjusted for sitting position and one for standing. I used to stand most of the time. Not as conveniently adjustable as standing desk but it worked for me at $100. [http://www.staples.com/Hirsh-Heavy-Duty-Riveted-Boltless- Ste...](http://www.staples.com/Hirsh-Heavy-Duty-Riveted-Boltless-Steel- Shelving/product_SS1036999)

<comment><USER64> I have one of those in my basement! Never thought of using it as a desk. Wouldn't it be awkwardly far from you while you're sitting, since you couldn't slide the chair underneath the work surface?

<comment><USER65> Not really. I used to play my piano sitting.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER66> Ikea appears to be sold out in all of Northern California. They do provide a predictor of future available stock, and it looks like they are intending on restocking in Southern California stores.

[http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/availability/S29084966/](http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/availability/S29084966/)

</comment><comment><USER67> I bought just the frame at IKEA and then purchased a different top than what they recommend goes with it because I felt the Skarsta tops were ugly. I ended up with a butcher block style top also from IKEA.

It's sturdy and I prefer it to the electric model because I didn't feel like I needed one extra thing to plug in. The top I went with is much heavier and I haven't had any issues with weight either.

<comment><USER68> Is the tabletop you bought the Gerton by chance? Looking into pairing the Skarsta frame with this table top, but wasn't sure how stable it would be at standing height.

</comment></comment><comment><USER69> Uplift will also sell you the legs (~US$500) which you can mate with an inexpensive desk-top (or maybe one that you already have):

[http://www.upliftdesk.com/uplift-height-adjustable- standing-...](http://www.upliftdesk.com/uplift-height-adjustable-standing- desk-frame-2-leg/)

We've used these at my work and they're pretty nice.

<comment><USER70> I really like my Uplift I have for my home office. I have the one with 4 presets, works well especially with kids :) If you live in Austin you can take a look at them at [http://www.thehumansolution.com/](http://www.thehumansolution.com/). That's where I bought mine.

</comment></comment><comment><USER71> The Steelcase Airtouch is, to me, the premium standing desk. No electricity needed, fast and fluid movement, and looks gorgeous.

Definitely not cheap, but its quality is top notch.

[http://www.steelcase.com/products/height-adjustable- desks/ai...](http://www.steelcase.com/products/height-adjustable- desks/airtouch/)

</comment><comment><USER72> (for the sake of discussion) Why sit or stand when you can lie down?

[http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/10/sit-stand-nifty- new-w...](http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/10/sit-stand-nifty-new- workstation-lets-you-lie-down-on-the-job/)

<comment><USER73> Yeah, always liked the idea since I saw ErgoQuests zero gravity workstations - [http://www.ergoquest.com/zero-gravity- workstations.html](http://www.ergoquest.com/zero-gravity-workstations.html) \- a few year back.

But 4000-5000 is a little bit too much for me personally.

</comment></comment><comment><USER74> I bought one of these and am really happy with it [http://iwantastandingdesk.com/collections/frontpage/products...](http://iwantastandingdesk.com/collections/frontpage/products/eiger- standing-desk-the-retro-fit-solution)

</comment><comment><USER75> Wasn't there some recent study that both sitting and standing in front of a desk is not really healthy? We knew that about sitting but standing didn't fare much better. We probably need some treadmill-style workplace instead or taking walking breaks for 15 minutes an hour...

<comment><USER76> "Some recent study" \- sounds legit.

Seriously though, I agree with you I think. As I understand it, you get the health benefits from moving and fidgeting more, not from just standing like a statue.

Ye olde New York Times article talks a bit about this: [http://is.gd/3k4zJp](http://is.gd/3k4zJp)

And that article gave me a fancier way to say fidgeting: Non-Exercise Activity Thermogenes or "NEAT"

</comment></comment><comment><USER77> I've used this desk for the past 6 months and is a really good standing desk for the value. I use it always in standing mode so if you are like me the fact that's not motorized it's not an issue. I confirm that if you are tall this desk is not a good choice for you.

<comment><USER78> Could you define 'tall' in this case?

<comment><USER77> Over 6'2"

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER79> Been using this since last November. I got the longest top version they make. Pretty satisfied with it so far. The manual cranking is bit tiring if you sit- stand multiple times in a day (FWP, I know!) Otherwise, a practical, no- nonsense product from Ikea, as generally expected.

</comment><comment><USER80> I was going to buy this if I won the Powerball: [http://store.focalupright.com/locus-bundle- pro-p/lbn-2000.ht...](http://store.focalupright.com/locus-bundle- pro-p/lbn-2000.htm)

</comment><comment><USER81> [http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-standing- desk/](http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-standing-desk/)

I'm considering to buy ergo depot Jarvis. Anybody using it?

</comment><comment><USER82> This thing is pretty sweet if you just use a laptop: [http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002VWJZ8S](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002VWJZ8S)

</comment><comment><USER83> In case anyone's in the market: While $100-200 more (depending on retailer), I've been using the Victor High Rise Collection Dual Monitor Sit-Stand Desk Converter for the past 8 months and am very pleased.

</comment><comment><USER84> Comparable price, very adjustable, wall-mounted. Not for everyone, but I love it, excellent for taller people in particular.

[http://www.standingdesks.ca](http://www.standingdesks.ca)

</comment><comment><USER85> I built my own as many of the commercial standing desks have a tendency to be too short (I am over 2 metres). Just two triangle brackets, some screws and a large piece of wood; total cost: ~$30 and some time.

</comment><comment><USER86> I'd really like an adjustable desk for my home, but at 160x80 (cm) it's just too big. Why can't idea do a smaller version of this, which would suit a simple home office with an iMac on it.

<comment><USER28> Smaller size: [http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/S59061181/](http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/S59061181/)

120×80cm.

</comment></comment><comment><USER87> One thing the article doesn't mention is that for some reason it was a huge PITA to assemble. I've used Ikea a lot but this was one of the more difficult.

Overall though, I highly recommend

<comment><USER88> Have the table, now for 4 months and for me it was a piece of cake to assemble it - also compared to other IKEA furniture.

I like this table. Use it 95 % in standing mode, one reason is that it is not as easy to put it down as the electric version - so the laziness makes me to use it most of the time in standing mode :-)

</comment></comment><comment><USER89> How wide do they make them? I have three 27" monitors (for film and video work) and would like to add a fourth one.

edit: Apparently there's also BEKANT which is motorised.

<comment><AUTHOR> The larger SKARSTA is 63" wide.

<comment><USER89> 160 cm! Thanks.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> Unfortunately we might have hugged the site to death. Am now seeing:

> Uncaught Exception: SQLSTATE[HY000] [2003] Can't connect to MySQL server on > '127.0.0.1' (111)

<comment><AUTHOR> Sorry about that - brand new DigitalOcean instance and Anchor CMS installation. I guess I have some optimizing to do. Won't even accept new SSH connections.

<comment><USER40> Perhaps it is hitting the memory ceiling?

When a machine runs out of memory, sometimes new SSH connections can fail because when it tries to fork the processes needed to handle the session, that forking can fail.

You may want to look at how much memory MySQL in particular is allowed to consume on the box. It is actually very configurable in that regard, but pretty greedy out of the box.

Thanks for trying to bring the site back up (and for writing the review, which I'll read when I am able). :)

<comment><AUTHOR> Back up for the moment, resized the instance from 512 MB of RAM to 8 GB. Time for a crash course in MySQL memory optimization.

<comment><USER90> If it's just a static blog why even run a full on database engine, etc? A static site generator + CDN would handle huge amounts of loads without breaking a sweat.

<comment><AUTHOR> Only because it's my first blog and I'm new at high-traffic web stuff. I picked what appears to be a very lightweight and easy-to-tweak blogging engine (Anchor). Which stack do you recommend?

<comment><USER91> Any static generator (e.g. Jekyll) + any HTTP object store (e.g. Amazon S3) + any CDN (e.g. Cloudflare)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER92> Has anyone got this? [http://tableair.com/](http://tableair.com/)

Though pricey, but seems neat idea and seems sturdy

</comment><comment><USER93> Came across this the other day: [http://oristand.co/](http://oristand.co/)

Of course, nothing beats my TrippTrapp!

</comment><comment><USER94> Don't have a standing desk. I try to go to gym during lunch a few times a week for squats and deadlifts though; works a treat for this programmer.

</comment><comment><USER95> IKEA apparently is phasing out this product, at least in SF/Bay area. If you want one, act now. :)

<comment><USER96> They only came out less then a year ago, it is because of a new version coming out or they are under pressure from other competitors for selling it too low priced?

</comment></comment><comment><USER97> Slight hijack - any recommendations on the best standing desk available to the Australian market?

<comment><USER98> I'd recommend the VARIDESK: [http://au.varidesk.com/](http://au.varidesk.com/)

<comment><USER99> I'd be cautious: the range is too small for me (6'1" / 188cm). On a regular desk that suits me, it doesn't go high enough, and if you prop things on the desks up a bit, you then need to remove them when you lower it.

(It's also a bit wobbly, which isn't great, but probably expected.)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER100> I have one of these and they are a fantastic value. Been using it for a year with no troubles.

</comment><comment><USER101> I'd like a desk where I alternately lie down or stand, but never sit.

</comment><comment><USER102> I just used about 45min looking at different ways to use Kee Klamps.

</comment><comment><USER103> It's been up 13 minutes and the DB is already toasted

</comment><comment><USER104> Swing is also a good option.

</comment><comment><USER105> How low can the desk go?

<comment><USER47> 26 inches (+1 inch for the thickness of the desk surface).

</comment></comment><comment><USER106> How tall are you?

</comment><comment><USER107> I bought a treadmill desk recently. It's fantastic. I'm walking 15k steps at 2.3km/h daily, and slowly increasing the speed. I've dropped 3+kg and will soon have a healthy BMI again. After the first few days, the novelty wore off and I stopped noticing it while I worked. If I want a standing desk, I just turn the treadmill off.

One thing I've noticed is that I still have to sit down to maximize focus and think through certain problems. Alternating walking for 30-60 minutes, then sitting for a while feels natural.

<comment><USER76> 15k steps per day is awesome! I have no idea how much 3kg is but that's awesome too ;)

And it's cool to hear you say that last bit because I feel the same way. I really need to sit down to work through through a complicated problems that requires focus. Emails and phone calls are standing and furrowed brow activities are sitting.

<comment><USER108> According to Google 3kg is 6,61387 pounds.

As a rule of thumbs if you multiply kilograms by 2 you get a rough equivalent in pounds ;-)

I can manage inches, feet and pounds quite OK but Fahrenheit are a bitch though.

<comment><USER109> > ... but Fahrenheit are a bitch though.

Ha, ha, couldn't agree more... :)

Anyway, I looked it up just now, looks like you substract 32 from Fahrenheit and then divide by 1.8 to get Celcius: [http://www.wikihow.com/Convert- Between-Fahrenheit,-Celsius,-...](http://www.wikihow.com/Convert-Between- Fahrenheit,-Celsius,-and-Kelvin)</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Medical debt collection firm R1 RCM hit in ransomware attack - <AUTHOR> https://krebsonsecurity.com/2020/08/medical-debt-collection-firm-r1-rcm-hit-in-ransomware-attack/ <comment><USER2> I'm not about to say that this is good, but I have no sympathy here. The fact that this company exists is a major failing of our society. $1.18 billion in revenue 2019 alone.

<comment><USER3> > I'm not about to say that this is good

yeah the fact that this company exists and is making a lot of money doing it and likely has an undue influence in how our laws are made makes me shed not a single tear.

I am only waiting to see if they have backups for their data; if they do i will shed one.

<comment><USER4> > yeah the fact that this company exists and is making a lot of money doing it > and likely has an undue influence in how our laws are made makes me shed not > a single tear.

I don't think so. There is a huge undercurrent of government is bad in the US that can be seen in the voting records of the population, and I believe it's a fundamental issue of people being tribal and not wanting "their" tribe's resources to benefit another's tribe.

<comment><USER5> That undercurrent of "government is bad" doesn't come from nowhere. It comes largely from Fox News, which has advertisers that benefit from this message. It comes from our politicians who accept bribes to drive legislation. It comes from a general distrust of the government because of mismanagement.

<comment><USER6> It's much older than Fox News and also has plenty of racial origins.

A lot of people fought very hard for a century to try to prevent national government from being able to tell them they couldn't have slaves.

<comment><USER7> The history goes farther back than the Civil War, and I don't see strong evidence that it's always racial in its origins.

A lot of immigrants, both recent and historical, came to the USA because they didn't like the government in their home country, Pilgrims as a key example, Falun Gong members leaving China as a more recent example.

The general distrust of a strong government is still part of American culture.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> This could not have happened to a more deserving company. I take no comfort in this happening to them, yet I have no sympathy for a company who preys on people at their most vulnerable moment. Judge away!

</comment><comment><USER9> Man, I wish I could be saddened by this news but the tears just aren't coming.

A business built on extracting money from the poor _and_ sick? I guess sometimes bad things happen to bad people. Socialized medicine can't come soon enough.

<comment><USER10> But look who else is at risk:

> The company has access to a wealth of personal, financial and medical > information on _tens of millions_ of patients, including names, dates of > birth, Social Security numbers, billing information and medical diagnostic > data.

If the threat actors choose to release the data, then you may be doxed

In that way, it resembles the Equifax breach.

<comment><USER11> Yup, this is the real tragedy. Medical billing companies have the PHI and the Payment info making them a double whammy for hackers.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I hope they pay and don't get their data back

<comment><USER13> I hope it's a disgruntled former 'customer'

<comment><USER14> I hope it's an act of god or a prexisting condition, and their insurance carrier refuses to pay out.

<comment><USER15> "Your insurance covers removal of the malware. However, recovery of your data is an _elective_ procedure, which is not covered"

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Fingers crossed they don't pay and end up losing their data.

</comment><comment><USER17> Is it related to this viral story? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiLjTMVMkrg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiLjTMVMkrg)

</comment><comment><USER18> Hey maybe this is one those where the encryption part of the code is messed up because some script kiddy copy pasted code and decryption is impossible...

</comment><comment><USER19> Damn, it must be so hard for them, having some evil organization demand a huge payment for something bad that happened to them that wasn't their fault.

<comment><USER20> Indeed. However I get the feeling people will just be paying more for this in overheads and fees now.

<comment><USER21> I doubt it would make much of a difference. Medical billing is from the service provider not wanting/able to wait for the bill and wanting payment "now" so they take a sharp haircut. The ammount they can sell it for depends upon what they can recoup on average. Sometimes it if they waited one more week the seller would have gotten 100% instead of say 35%. Other times the delinquient debt is already worth nothing as the patient turns out to be a dead homeless person - lump it into the averages and move on.

Looking at it in an abstracted way the incompetence of the end user doesn't devalue the base product beyond the loss of them as a customer in the market. That a batch became 0% recoverable because of a screw up says nothing of the collection rate of the provider any more than the fact refrigerated food rots if left unrefrigerated for 24 hours.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Good</comment>


Google vs. Yahoo: Who's Greener? - <AUTHOR> http://www.erichsen-group.com/GreenGoogle.html

<comment><USER2> When you factor in that Google is an active investor in wholesale wind power, as well as the company's history of backing "green" startups through their ventures program, it's no contest.</comment>


Losing our business – we didn't see it coming - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@Kev_Reframed/losing-our-business-we-didnt-see-it-coming-ab08bf839882 <comment><USER2> _That week was fraught, as it was the week of a major conference that we were working with. It was the first time we were displaying adverts on someone else's site through our system, but we couldn't trust Simon — we had no guarantee that he wouldn't try and display something malicious.

We had to rebuild the ad system from scratch to ensure that no one could maliciously inject adverts onto our system. It was too much of a risk to leave it in the control of Simon.

Once we got control over the ad system we realised that the adverts were affiliate links, i.e. not unique to us. The companies advertising had no idea they were advertising on our site. We had no relationship with them.

It slowly dawned on us that the financial forecasts we were basing the raise on were useless. It was based on information from Simon on adverts that were not real, and deals that did not exist. The financial model was broken._

I'm sorry but ... what? They ran a company for "a couple years" with at least a handful of staff, and let this one guy come in and overnight effectively take over an utterly critical part of the business even though "He hasn't paid any of his invoices. We were expecting around £25k from him"

And then they depend on the same individual both to finance and to provide the financial forecasts justifying their must-have funding round, and after it blows up they say "we didn't see it coming"

<comment><USER3> AND they forgot to discount his invoices until right at the last minute.

I respect the author's transparency but there are a _huge_ number of lessons to be learned here before jumping head first in to any other new business startup that relies on other people's money to launch.

<comment><USER4> On their about page

"In 2015, Reframed.TV exceeded investment expectations with no commercial revenue."

No details of the metrics but that itself would be an interesting post considering the staff numbers and investment.

<comment><USER5> I can't reconcile that dubious claim, either.

Based on the post, it appears that management didn't have basic financial skills.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Interesting discussion here, slamming both Reframed and Simon.

If you are reading this and wondering, the Simon character in this play follows a very common pattern for the "Ad Fraudster." This particular con takes advantage of two victims, a web site which thinks it can make money with advertising, and advertising networks who have excess advertising to sell.

One convinces the web site to host the javascript that will fetch ads from the network (they do that with an ads API call or when they are super bold they ask the web site to host a script that will fetch the script from the ad site and run it (yes people actually do this)) Then our fraudster drives traffic to the web site (botnets, click farms, what have you) to generate traffic and ad clicks. Which they collect from the ad agencies (and if they add affiliate tags affilliate fees) but tell the web site that it will take "90 days for the transactions to settle given everyone wants to limit click fraud."

Now depending on how much work they want to do and how much organic traffic the website gets, they can leech thousands of dollars a day off a web site. They feed fraudulent traffic in that keeps clicking on their ads, they spew affiliate cookies like confetti, and try to gather that revenue, and they sometimes "mirror" back to the actual advertiser network (taking one click on one ad and tell several networks it was a click on their ad)

And here is the sad bit, while its fraud, if the advertiser gets upset they go after the web site, if the web site is upset they go after the advertiser, if everyone starts yelling our fraudster just moves on with all the cash they have pocketed.

</comment><comment><USER7> This article is damage control for the author's naiveté.

The problem: Reframed did the due diligence _after_ talking to Simon and seeking additional investment.

It's also not clear if Reframed ever provided any real value, but it's clear they we're willing to take _real_ money and assign themselves a $4M valuation. That might not be a sham straightaway, but it's probably one in the making-- good intentions aside.

Your investors will rightfully blame you if you get them scammed. You're expected to be competent enough to protect them because that's part of your job as "The Management".

Thank goodness the deal stopped dead in its tracks before more people got hurt.

<comment><USER8> Totally disagree that this is "damage control". It had all the signs of a good faith postmortem that others can learn from.

<comment><USER7> I do think the author told himself he was writing it in good faith, but it was hard for me to see where he took direct responsibility for the outcome.

I read it as more blame-shifting to Simon, and since this Simon character doesn't have a voice in this, we can't see the whole picture.

<comment> kev-reframed Hi, We have taken responsibility for what went on. Simon was not the cause of the downfall of the business. The fact that we could not monetise and didn't have a commercial business was not his fault. We have said that to each of our investors in person. We have still maintained a good relationship with all of them and they were involved in our board meetings around this (as they have all of our board meetings) right the way through the business.

The reason I wrote the article is not to say I didn't do anything wrong - obviously we were terribly naive in many aspects of the business and far too trusting. I didn't expect this many people to read it, I thought my friends would read it locally and be forewarned about getting involved (I only posted it on facebook to my friends). Turns out it got more attention

<comment><USER7> I can definitely appreciate the article being taken out of context by an unintended audience who doesn't know anything about you. Your friends know you better than we do.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I think the most important lesson here is that you need to have really good accounts receivable to survive in business. In a small business AR is a founder/owner-level concern. You should spend some portion of your time personally making sure you get paid--on time!

If you manage your receivables actively then you become aware very quickly if someone doesn't pay on time. This flushes out fraudsters, keeps you directly connected to your cashflow situation, and gives you early warning signs of any possible financial problems. These are the ways that actively managing AR mitigates risk.

It also carries a lot of upside. People who pay you regularly are some of the best people you can partner with. When someone's paid you on time for years it's a very big sign that they can be trusted (and have money!). And when you're directly involved in collecting money from those people you inevitably end up having discussions with them that are very frank and carry real stakes. If these discussions are successful that is another sign they could make a good partner.

If one of the founders at Reframed had stayed directly involved with AR on some level this story would have had a much better outcome. Simon would not have been a vendor for long. They would have found a new vendor and learned through direct experience whether that vendor could be a good partner/investor or not.

The other acronym I never let go of is HR. If I remember correctly Bill Gates was personally involved in Microsoft's first 500 hires!

<comment><USER10> Exactly. I actually used Quicken in my startup's early days. Naively. And fortuitously. Even after we switched to real accounting software, I would focus first and mostly on the cash flow statement and similar metrics.

Many things might someday be cash -- an invoiced sale, an A/R balance, an investment term sheet. Or they might not. Meanwhile they're only promises or futures -- worth nothing if the company abends due to a SIGKILL. A small business is very much an exercise in blocking I/O. :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> The revolving door of employees is a big red flag. If you cannot keep employees, you are either 1) an asshole or 2) doing something shady. Either way, they are not someone you want involved in your business.

</comment><comment><USER12> Why do companies wait till the dying moments before informing employees? I have seen many articles now which read like 'we went to back to the drawing board to realize that we have to close down in 2 days. Our bank was empty'. Is this just dramatization? I cannot believe people can run business without something so basic. Like paratroopers jumping out of an aeroplane and then saying 'we checked before hitting the ground, only to realize we had no parachutes'.

<comment><USER3> When a founder doesn't know that they don't have money to pay their employees it's unforgivable.

When a founder concludes they might have to fight to save their company and _might_ not be able to pay employees in X months time that's an entirely different proposition. You can be upfront with your employees and hope that they stick around. Or you can keep quiet and do everything necessary to save the company and hope the employees never need to know.

It's a gamble either way but I suspect the majority of founders opt for keeping quiet in the hope they can snatch success from the jaws of defeat.

<comment><USER13> > When a founder doesn't know that they don't have money to pay their > employees it's unforgivable.

This is a constant state for a startup, from day 1. You always have a runway of some length at which point you know you can't pay your employees. The question is when you start to warn about the runway running out. It's much more grey than you suggest. 2 days warning is unconscionable, IMO. But do you need to start warning employees at 120 days? 90 days? 60 days?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I literally do not understand. What is the other side of the story? Why would someone go through all this trouble of a fake investment? Clearing buying 10% of a company for 200k with no check is a game that only lasts for a few weeks???

<comment><USER15> there's nothing to "understand". you assume there is a logic to their actions. there isn't. the guy was a scammy bullshit artist, a wannabe business man who talked his way into others' confidence, and probably has mental issues. these people are out there, and you need to watch out for them.

on a side note, it takes guts to post a story like this. most people don't admit when they are taken like this. they're lucky he didn't try to steal money from them directly.

<comment><USER16> I think he is asking how that guy cashed in on this.

And I believe the answer was that these guys basically displayed affiliate links that gave him cash when clicked.

<comment><USER17> No, I don't think "Simon" meant to cash in at all. As the parent post said: probably mental issues. These nutjobs aren't looking to get to rich, as much as pretending/be perceived to be rich.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> OK sorry if this sounds harsh but it seems if your whole revenue model is based on selling ads it would be a good idea to really understand the ad market.

</comment><comment><USER19> For me it sounds so strange a company that does not does a basic "due diligence". Even with people that I've just met I will do my personal due diligence.

We live in days that "trust" is something that you acquire after a time, not something that you suppose that others may have.

<comment><USER20> _it sounds so strange a company that does not does a basic "due diligence"_

This applies to government relations as well. Ronald Reagan made a big deal about this in his dealings with Gorby.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust,_but_verify](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust,_but_verify)

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> "Just because you can doesn't mean you should" is what comes to mind for me when reading this. It also reminds me of how often, in the past two years, I've had to push younger founders to adapt a more pessimistic (I call it realistic) view of the business world than they naturally have. A deal is on the table - start by asking how it could fall apart, where the holes are, what's wrong with it. If you're owning/operating a business, you should have a nice healthy dollop of distrust in almost all your doings. That could solve so many of these "problems" that are simply born of naivete.

</comment><comment><USER22> "due diligence", "due diligence", "due diligence"

I mean, I know it's a term, but the literal meaning... If they had been diligent where/when diligence was due, all of this was evitable.

Also, they should really do some legal action on the guy. Not because of revenge, but to try to save others from future actions of the con man. Public shaming is just not so stylish.

<comment><USER5> As pointed out by others upthread [0], the founders likely don't have money and neither does the con. Thus, legal action's a negative NPV project.

We're only hearing one side, and it doesn't sound like the management had a paper trail.

[0] [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12204279](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12204279)

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> A bizarre story that should be a reminder to everyone that your gut will often point in the direction of a problem.

Also, the article is written as a reminder, a warning, to not overuse commas when I type.

<comment> kev-reframed in, real, life, I speak, like, William Shatner. I think my writing should reflect that

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> ex-google loooool I never thought about it but you could totally say that even here in SF and get a lot of irrational clout and respect

</comment><comment><USER25> It's difficult to see the logic that some of these guys have with their "investment" cons. I really wonder the psychology of someone who'd go through a fake investment proposal like this. Do they just want to feel important? I recall a similar incident with someone on HN that I have saved from a few years back: [http://www.shaf.co/post/75399291209/the-fake-vc-eccentric- ge...](http://www.shaf.co/post/75399291209/the-fake-vc-eccentric-german- millionaire-and-the)

<comment><USER26> I was introduced to the world of fake house offers sometime ago. I could not believe that there are people in this world that literally have no job or nothing and go put offers on expensive houses. After it happened to me twice one of the title workers told me they see it everyday and many of these people do it repeatedly.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> A comment from one of my Facebook friends: "No offense to the guy or his partners, but his whole story is like an advertisement not to invest with his next venture. Maybe the next one down the line."

I agree.

</comment><comment><USER28> Due diligence is to be done prior to contract or prior to entering into agreement. The poster learned that, but it's too late.

</comment><comment><USER29> Surprised HMRC hadn't caught up with them, preventing them from being directors or secretaries on any other companies.

<comment><USER3> I've seen so many so called Phoenix companies ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_company](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_company)) spun up out of the ashes of "insolvent" companies that leave behind unpaid employees, suppliers etc that it doesn't surprise me nobody has caught up with the ad sales guy.

This guy is ridiculously easy to find on the Companies House website if anybody else wants to avoid doing business with him. All five of his registered companies are dissolved:

[https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/officers/bJDe8K2KIPyGpgvp...](https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/officers/bJDe8K2KIPyGpgvpWIY0yFipPGg/appointments)

<comment><USER4> "Country of residence Grate Britian"

errrr!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> Sorry to hear that man. At least you took it on the chin and dealt with it. Its all part of the learning experience. These kind of stories are unfortunately far too common but its like a rite of passage for each of us. I feel bad for your staff, but hopefully they'll find something soon.

</comment><comment><USER31> SUMMARY

Dealt with a scammer.

Told the board that he wanted to invest a fortune.

Failed to do due diligence.

The scammer failed to pay his bills or invest.

Became insolvent.

DO DUE DILIGENCE EARLY

</comment><comment><USER31> Too many red flags around management actions. I would avoid their next start up.

</comment><comment><USER32> [OT] My mind somehow associated "Amanda Wood" with "Jessica Hyde". Where is Jessica Hyde?

<comment> ux-app A reference from Utopia. An amazing TV show you should go and watch.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> I wouldn't discount the guy completely and frame him as the "bad guy" here. Most of the ad sales industry guys are very similar to this guy. They operate in a realm going from deal to deal, sometimes only a single deal separates them from extreme success and utter destruction. Sadly, this guy seems to have a grouping on the negative side of things and might have been just starting out in the ads business himself. I would have even given him another chance, after he's been humbled a bit. Just make sure you have cash up front when dealing with these kinds of people -- they shouldn't be discounted immediately, rather just treat them like an untrustworthy child.

Just goes to show you shouldn't bank on any one deal coming through. As the management of a company, its your job to have not only one deal in the works, but preferably multiple deals, so called "deal flow" or "sales/prospect pipeline". You should be in constant prospect mode, and never give any one prospect any significant portion of your time. It's not like it takes a lot of effort to just talk to people. I realize its time consuming, but what we're you guys doing in between talking to this guy? You should have been working on other deals. That way if one doesn't work out, you can rely on the others and leverage them until your own bullshit wears out.

This is the proverbial case of "all eggs in one basket".

<comment><USER34> > I would have even given him another chance

What value would there possibly be in giving him another chance? I mean, in this case it wasn't possible because he managed to tank the company on the way out, but had they managed to survive him, what would they possibly get out of working with him again?</comment></comment>


Brad Feld: Are We Already Working For The Computers? - <AUTHOR> http://www.feld.com/wp/archives/2010/02/are-we-already-working-for-the-computers.html <comment><USER2> "Computer" is the new "man".</comment>


Ask HN: How do startups/small businesses manage passwords and credentials - <AUTHOR>

I wanted to know how small to medium size businesses manage credentials for different services. For example, a business may have a facebook page. Who has the password and auth details for that. Also, for hosting and domain information who has all the credentials. <comment><USER2> That is the policy for my previous company:

1\. Avoid sharing password between people. For example, in using Amazon Web Service, it should use IAM and every admin login with their own account.

2\. Master password (e.g the owner of AWS) and credentails should be kept in a same place. The information are encrypted by a software called KeepassX and won't share on the Internet. Ofcoz, backup is still needed.

</comment><comment><USER3> [http://www.bitium.com](http://www.bitium.com) \- can't speak highly enough about them. $200 / month, unlimited web apps, passwords, users, integration with any SSO or SAML system as "authenticaltion system of record" and an unlimited number of others...plus MFA via several options (authy and google authentication), strict password requirements capabilities though use a reasonable default. Ability to change all to random values that no one who uses them can see if you choose, multiple domain support...the ability to request access to your clients passwords and let THEM manage when it's revoked really ups both our tech and marketing teams

<comment><AUTHOR> Looks good but is there any way to manage credentials from a small startup's perspective who can't afford to get paid services like bitium?</comment></comment>


Ask HN: PHP or JSP ? - <AUTHOR>

Which Should I Learn? I am from java background. <comment><USER2> I think the answer to this involves a big dose of "it depends", but I'd lean towards jsp. The Java ecosystem is just so mature and so comprehensive, and - for all the warts of certain elements of the Java stack (JSF, anybody) - JSP's are actually pretty cool.

Java is especially good for apps that have lots of intgration "touch points" were you need to tie in with external, 3rd party apps. Java makes it pretty easy to use REST, SOAP based WebServices, RPCs of different flavors (RMI, etc), asynchronous messaging using JMS, or pretty much any other integration technology you need. If you will be building larger systems that need to be built in more of a "small pieces, loosely joined" style, a JVM based stack will serve you well.

And if you need to do "Big Data" stuff, already being in Java will make it straightforward to use, say, Hadoop. If you want to use Machine Learning, you have the convenience of Mahout, Weka, etc. Want to join the Semantic Web? You have Apache Jena. Need to do Natural Language Processing? OpenNLP is there. Want to add search to your app? Apache Lucene / Solr are your friends.

Now, to be fair, _most_ well known platforms have plenty of libraries available. Java isn't unique in that regard. But I think it is somewhat unique in just how comprehensive and mature the overall ecosystem is.

</comment><comment><USER3> Not to be irrelevant to the question, but something to consider. Why not just go with java as a rest API and use a frontend framework? JSP with taglibs and all that aren't as heavily used now a days.

Keep in mind, this is coming from someone who has done JSP and spring (still use spring) for years.

Especially in light of some of the newer JVM frameworks, you'd benefit from being framework agnostic on the front end but take advantage of your java experience otherwise.

</comment><comment><USER4> Does it have to be PHP or JSP? What about Java and Play Framework instead of JSP? [http://www.playframework.com/](http://www.playframework.com/) — I like it a lot

<comment><AUTHOR> Play Framework sounds good

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I recommend you go with PHP, it's really easy to use and get started with. You can make some pretty amazing applications rapidly and deployment is a joy with PHP. The job market for PHP and Java is the same as a far as demand but Java pays much more.

<comment><AUTHOR> Java pays much more means? can you please elaborate

<comment><USER5> Well Java is one of those languages that a lot of people don't like working with because of it's verbosity and is overkill for a lot of simple applications. People to tend to favor Python for simple things. Java is best suited for Banks and high-level web applications for big corporations which is why Java developers make more than 100k at least.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> There are very few technologies that are as bad as working with JSP, even considering your Java experience.

Have you considered other options that run on top of Java?

</comment><comment><USER7> Since you are from a Java background maybe you should stay with it.

Explaining why your options are just PHP or JSP might help.

<comment><AUTHOR> cheap php servers and java knowledge, can u tell me the other options?

<comment> workhere-io Python would be another option, and many cheap hosts out there support it (HostGator and WebFaction, e.g.).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> What are you trying to build? If it's enterprisey I'd go with JSP and take a look at Spring MVC.

</comment><comment><USER9> if you know java you should continue with JSP then</comment>


Metro Dig at Tysons Stirs Underground Intrigue - <AUTHOR> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/30/AR2009053002114.html

<comment><USER2> So is it just in Illinois that we have <http://www.illinois1call.com/>? This seems to be seriously effective. Someone doing work on the yard calls the number and sometime the next day a whole passel of yellow/blue/red flags are planted in the ground, marking where various things are. They are doing resurfacing on the subdivision street, and there are flags everywhere, sometimes augmented with yellow paint on the grass.

On the other hand, Chicago is famous for having a $2 billion dollar flood in which nobody was hurt or killed. One of the city inspectors called out apparently did not even know of the abandonded underground railroad that as he "inspected" the area, the flood was just about to get underway.

This was a major urban adventure, as they tried to plug the hole. One scene had huge concrete trucks hurtling down city streets in excess of 70 mph flanked by police cruisers. Another scene had unimaginably large pumps brought in to pump out basement complexes. (The Army Corps of Engineers would not let them be used, as the draining would have been too fast, causing collapse of walls)

There was even a special extension granted to individuals whose tax returns filed late due to this adventure.

<comment><USER3> I think the issue here, at least in part, is that the government likely doesn't advertise their fiber locations. So when those doing the digging seek approval, nobody knows the fiber is there.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> LOL. I live in Northern Virginia and that craziness does not surprise me one bit!

One night on the way home from grabbing one drink I accidentally turned into a govt complex that was probably CIA or something. I figured I'd tell the guys at the gate I made the wrong turn and they'd let me leave. Low and behold I was held within the gates for 3 hours, subjected to a series of alcohol tests conducted by several feds who rolled up in unmarked black suburbans repeatedly asking me what I was doing there. At the end of all the huffing and puffing I passed every single test and was warned I got off easy as I was clearly intoxicated and next time things wouldn't go so smoothly. This was after I agreed to a voluntary search of my vehicle with hopes of just getting the hell out of there.

<comment><USER5> Yep, when I worked out in Reston (also in Northern Virginia area, for those on the other coast) there was a building like that right next to ours. If you pulled into their driveway by accident, you could expect to have machine guns pointed at you until they determined you were not a threat.

Occasionally, we would have an interviewee show up 20 minutes late for an interview in a cold sweat, shaking, and looking like they had seen a ghost-- all because of a wrong turn.

<comment><USER4> Ya, it was Reston where it happend to me also.</comment></comment></comment>


We Must Repeal Our Segregation Laws - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@niranbabalola/we-must-repeal-our-segregation-laws-32348d090520#.hviadnysu <comment><USER2> The article is somewhat difficult to read.

I think "segregation" should be "zoning" throughout most of the article?

I get that he's trying to draw a parallel to the historical practice of separating public facilities by race, but the connection is tenuous. One is de jure separation by ancestry for public, tax-funded, government facilities. The other is de facto separation by finances for private property (enabled by legal architectural requirements).

In any case, following this logic implies overturning most zoning restrictions and HOAs. (I myself am currently uncertain on my opinion on this.)

<comment><USER3> His point is precisely that segregation laws and zoning laws do the same thing, so he's trying to use language that makes that obvious. It's not a leap really, right? To "segregate" things is almost synonymous with putting things into their proper "zones" isn't it?

<comment><USER2> Yes, and I eventually got that.

segregate, zone, partition, divide, separate, categorize have similar English definitions.

This is just my impression, but "We must repeal our zoning laws" would have been an easier thesis to follow then "We must repeal our segregation laws", particularly since they work differently.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I don't think housing density is THE controlling factor in housing affordability. I would think location swamps density as an affordability input. And I think that home ownership as a means to social inclusion is an interesting idea, but to assert that reducing property size will lower prices and encourage whites to accept blacks into their communities seems fairly unproven territory. Prior to regular successful integration trials somewhere I think to take the connection as a forgone, its gone on long enough, conclusion is premature. The article did little to bolster the argument for either. I live near Chicago and to think if people in an expensive suburb like Hinsdale, (tear down only places on tiny lots can run 750k or more) would subdivide their property so that lower/middle income people could build and move in and presumably socially integrate seems problematic and not just from race. The difficulty of the city in serving the increased population and construction would likely dramatically effect affordability, quality of life and would likely be an urban planning disaster. The author is basically asking rich people to voluntarily reduce their quality of life so that lower income people can presumably get the halo effect of living amongst them. Two words spring to mind, white flight.

<comment><USER5> I wonder what would happen if the state bought some of these tear down lots in hinsdale and put up a high rise low income apartments they're instead similar to requiring low income housing in apartments and busing kids to different schools for integration. In principle they could require low income housing in rich neighborhoods by same logic. Maybe they tried and failed already...

Edit: I guess you could also require some $30 / night rooms in 5-star hotels. And require some $30 seats in 1st class in airplanes. I will show myself out now...

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Not mentioned in the article is the related problem that low-density drive- everywhere segregated suburbia has a massive infrastructure cash-flow problem. There is just too much roadway, water pipes, sewer pipes, and other utility infrastructure to be maintained by the tax base. See e.g. [http://www.strongtowns.org/the-growth-ponzi- scheme/](http://www.strongtowns.org/the-growth-ponzi-scheme/).

</comment><comment><USER7> I think this is an interesting topic that hasn't been talked about enough yet.

I wonder a little about inter-generational conflict. It seems to me like older people (who may already own homes) and younger people (who often do not) often have opposing interests when it comes to housing policy: homeowners want the political system to prop up the value of their current homes while non- homeowners want less expensive homes to come on the market.

Then there's also the huge public debt that's left to the younger generation to pay...

</comment><comment><USER8> > In his work on proxemics, Hall separated his theory into two overarching > categories: personal space and territory. Personal space describes the > immediate space surrounding a person, while territory refers to the area > which a person may "lay claim to" and defend against others.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxemics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxemics)

[https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_T._Hall](https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_T._Hall)

</comment><comment><USER9> Oh I thought this was going to be about the return of segregated dorms this year at the University of Connecticut.</comment>


Valve Is Making All Their Games Free to Debian Developers - <AUTHOR> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTU3OTc <comment><USER2> This is from 2014 when SteamOS was just coming out.</comment>