Ask HN: Help, I need to talk in front of a big audience & I'm scared, what now? - <AUTHOR>

I've done some presentations/demos in front of smallish audiences (dozens of people) but now I need to give a talk in front of 2000 people (+ probably live streaming). I'm scared, clueless, don't know where to start & I'm reaching out to HN: any tips? The talk is in 2 weeks.<p>Edit: It's an Ignite! Talk (http://igniteshow.com/). 5 minutes. 20 slides. 15 seconds per slide. auto-forward is on. Not sure if I can disclose the topic yet, will update when I can. <comment><USER3> You have two weeks. Rehearse the _shit_ out of your talk. Run through it several times every day. Do it until you're completely sick and tired of hearing yourself, and then run through it some more. Get friends and family to watch. Videotape yourself. But go through it as much as possible. That's the most reliable way to beat the nervousness and deliver a kick-ass talk. I know Steve Jobs makes it seem like it's something you have or you don't, but I've read he spends like 20 - 30 hours prepping and rehearsing for his keynote talks. There's a word for this: sprezzatura. Good luck!

[http://lifehacker.com/5449141/deliver-polished- presentations...](http://lifehacker.com/5449141/deliver-polished- presentations-steve-jobs-style)

<http://sivers.org/sprezzatura>

<comment><USER4> I'd never heard of sprezzatura. What a great word! Reminded me instantly of one of Robert Greene's 48 Laws of Power: "Make your Accomplishments Seem Effortless"

 _All the toil and practice that go into them, and also all the clever tricks, must be concealed. When you act, act effortlessly, as if you could do much more._

<comment><USER5> No surprise that it's mentioned in the book: [http://books.google.com/books?id=afCxg5sogvAC&lpg=PT316&...](http://books.google.com/books?id=afCxg5sogvAC&lpg=PT316&ots=mzXOiT_TEL&dq=%2248%20laws%20of%20power%22%20sprezzatura&pg=PT316#v=onepage&q&f=false)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> In my experience, practice is by far the best salve for nerves. If you can give your talk cold, without slides, while being attacked by bees, a couple of thousand people won't bother you in the slightest.

Luckily, you're speaking in the best possible format for this. The neat thing about Ignite is the length constraint. With a five minute talk, you can practice properly (run through the whole thing, making notes on paper about changes you need to make) something like 6 times in an hour - that would take closer to 10 hours with a 45 minute talk. That said, _don't_ work from a word- for-word script. Change things up a little on each run-through. That's always good advice, but it's even more important with Ignite, since it's easy to get off-track with the auto-advancing slides.

</comment><comment><USER7> Practice. Practice. Practice. Make sure you're telling engaging stories. This might sound dorky - but at least one week before the talk, record yourself if you have a camera. You'll notice what you're doing wrong, and be able to practice again to fix it.

Also - try and give the presentation to someone who knows nothing about the topic (maybe even post one of the recordings to HN?) and make sure they completely understand what you're talking about. Sometimes we get so close to the topic, we don't realize we're using terms people don't know.

If you're looking for design inspiration for slides with less text, check out: <http://noteandpoint.com/> They have an awesome collection!

Most importantly, remember most people who are amazing at presenting practice the shit out of what they're saying. Even _Malcolm Gladwell_ scripts every word of his presentations [1].

[1] [http://blogs.ft.com/rachmanblog/2010/02/the-secrets-of- malco...](http://blogs.ft.com/rachmanblog/2010/02/the-secrets-of-malcolm- gladwell/)

EDIT: Also, I've bookmarked a bunch of links related to presentations: <http://www.delicious.com/sachitgupta/presentation>

EDIT2: Another tip - find a presentation you really like. Write down the text and record yourself trying to do that. After this - instead of just saying you want to present like Steve Jobs, you can see exactly what to improve on to present like him.

</comment><comment><USER8> A few things from my own experience:

1\. Don't "give a speech". Instead, _talk to_ a bunch of people that are interested in what you have to say. The distinction really matters, at least to me.

2\. As others have noted. Don't drag your audience into PowerPoint Hell. At least look through the basics of "Presentation Zen". _You_ need to be the focal point, not the screen.

3\. Too late for you, but for anybody else with concerns about public speaking: you're going to need to do it sooner or later. Prepare now by joining your local Toastmaster chapter, and get the training and experience you need ahead of time.

<comment><USER9> I don't think you need to go to Toastmasters or your local improv comedy group to learn how to talk. You just need to do it often.

Talk to everyone. People in elevators. Coffee shops. Your workplace. Anywhere you can find people you can engage with.

<comment><USER10> Sure, there are other ways to get better. But Toastmasters exists to do exactly this, and has a good track record at it.

You don't need to join a club to get help though. Shoot an email to a local club and ask to give a guest talk. They'll evaluate you and you'll get tons of constructive, actionable feedback you can use to improve.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Wow, that sounds cool. What's the topic?

As far as actually getting up and talking, all I can really say is that you should stay relaxed. Those people _want_ to like you. They have _chosen_ to come and listen to you because they know you have something interesting and exciting to tell them and they want to know more.

The best talks are the ones where the speaker is relaxed, confident, and speaks as if to a small group. You already have that experience so you know the sort of it's-just-the-5-us-us-here-talking feeling to aim for.

In terms of your slides. Remember that anytime the audience has to read a slide or make sense of a chart, they are _not listening to you_. It follows then that you should not have much text (if any) on your slides.

Your slides should only contain simple images supporting whatever point you wish to make during that part of the talk; _simple_ charts (2D, no bling); or words written in a minimum of 60pt (sans serif font)

When testing them. Put them up on your laptop and look at them from 30 feet away. If you can't make out the detail, then neither will your audience during the real presentation.

Any real detail, data, background info, etc should be in a separate slide deck that you hand out or make available to download.

One book you might find interesting (I know I sure did) is Presentation Zen by Garr Reynolds [1].

Best of luck to you. I hope you have a great time

[1] [http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0321525655/103-6148611-3957...](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0321525655/103-6148611-3957463?ie=UTF8&tag=garrreynoldsc-20)

</comment><comment><USER12> It has been my experience (and I do a _lot_ of talks now, but in a completely different realm) that you can give a talk to ten people, or twenty-eight people, or forty-three people, but you cannot give a talk to two kilopeople -- at some point (seems the threshold is a hundred or a gross or somewhere around there) your perception goes from "N people" to "one audience".

I find it a lot easier to talk to one audience massing 150 tonnes than to talk to ninety people. At 90 people, there is still a tendency to try to pay some attention to each person. A sea of bodies is different, at least for me. My village-connectedness circuits hand everything over to my city-survival subassembly.

As for the rest: know your slides and know your stuff. Try not to know your words, if at all possible; it's way too easy to get creamed by a missing syllable, and you need to be a pretty darned good actor/orator to make a prepared script sound like human speech. Audiences like humans; they're not so big on bipedal assistive technology devices that sound like they're reading untrained vocabulary material.

</comment><comment><USER13> My first speaking gig scared the crap out of me. I was still in college and one of my professors had recommended me to someone on the managing committee for a large, private technology conference called TTI/Vanguard. They approached me with an idea but ultimately it was up to me to find out what to talk about. They gave me a 45 minute block of time (!!) but it was setup for about 20-30 minutes of talking then Q&A. The thing that really freaked me out was that every seat in the room (hundreds) was wired with a microphone. Anyone could buzz in, and was encouraged, at anytime to ask a question. The room was filled with people I had only read about - Nicholas Negroponte, Len Kleinrock, Aaron Swartz and others.

I wanted to decline it but it included a trip to Rome with first-class everything. I reluctantly accepted and flew out, writing some notes and thinking up my talk and making some slides on the flight. I did it wrong. I had all of my sentences more or less memorized (instead of just a few talking points) but then I got there and had the most unfluid talk you've ever heard. Lots of ums, fast talking.. the works. Fortunately people in the audience chimed in and asked questions. I say fortunately because this was actually a good thing! They asked for clarification about certain things, or even off- topic things, which broke me from my robotic train of thought where I was trying to replay a speech I had in my head and made it more into a conversation and into a more fluid talk. A series of questions from the audience diverted my talk from cloud computing stuff to an explanation on my usage of Twitter and what it was (this was a few years ago), but I was happy that my talk was progressing.

In the end the trip was amazing (dinner with Negroponte! [http://www.flickr.com/photos/pauls/2663284169/in/set-7215760...](http://www.flickr.com/photos/pauls/2663284169/in/set-72157606146948305/)) and I ended up randomly meeting Johnny Galecki (Leonard Hofstadter from Big Bang Theory). [http://www.flickr.com/photos/pauls/2663383147/in/set-7215760...](http://www.flickr.com/photos/pauls/2663383147/in/set-72157606146948305/)

I still dislike speaking in front of large audiences but people keep asking me for some reason. I did Ignite Atlanta (and spoke too fast as usual) <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYDfjaWc3Mc> a while back. At least now I have no sweat talking in front of smaller groups and that happens more often.

Funny thing is I also ended up making an Ask HN plea for speaking advice about it back then hehe.

<comment><USER14> I've only given one talk but it was similar to this for me, although with a much smaller audience. I had a 30 minute slot and breezed through my slides in maybe 5 minutes with a lot of "um" and fidgeting. In my nervousness, I said the phrase "super easy" ~20 times in that 5 minute timespan.

Luckily, people were genuinely interested in my topic and asked a lot of questions. I calmed down a lot when I had some crowd interaction and was able to make fun of myself with the "super easy" thing.

If you ask me, I bombed. But when it was all over with I felt like I couldn't wait to do it again.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> This post has _excellent_ advice: [http://rustyklophaus.com/articles/20100627-HowToPracticeATec...](http://rustyklophaus.com/articles/20100627-HowToPracticeATechTalk.html)

I wish I'd read it before completely bungling a presentation about Lua at a BarCamp. Make sure you've got hooking up your visual aids figured out first! I didn't, and it made me start off incredibly nervous.

<comment><USER16> Hey! Thanks! :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> The one trick that always helps me:

When i get nervous i smile (even laugh internally) about the fact how nervous i am. It's not worth it. People come to have fun. Nobody hates you.

The other tricks are:

* Reduce slides to a minimum so you are in time for sure. Kill the boring stuff.

* Build up a story through the presentation. People want to hear storys not presentations. Explain Problems, Users, Solutions.

* Try to find calm points in the audience. People you maybe already know or you have spoken before. They will be your mirror to tell you that you are doing everything right. Look for people you are doing this talk for - eg Investors. They will be the ones mirroring to you when you go wrong. To repeat: Look at people and interact with them.

Last of all: You are going there because you are proud of what you do. So don't be scared, be proud. And good Luck!

</comment><comment><USER18> Practice is absolutely the best thing to do but this little trick worked for me in my early days so I thought I'd pass it on.

Get someone you're really close to like a best friend or a spouse and have them sit in the absolute middle of the audience (or in the middle of the area where you can make out faces). When you start the talk focus directly on them and give the speech as if you were talking to that one person.

Once you get a few minutes into the speech and you've gotten over the initial hump start looking around the audience and trying to connect to other people as well. But if you start to feel nervous again go right back to your "safe" person and focus on them for another couple minutes. Then repeat the process until you can connect with the entire audience and be calm doing so.

It sounds weird but it worked for me every time.

</comment><comment><USER19> Beta adrenergic receptor antagonists (beta blockers) are routinely used by people who have a physical reaction (shortness of breath, tachycardia) to public speaking. If the other techniques that people here are recommending are not enough to get you exactly where you want to be regarding comfort, it is reasonable to talk to your internist. It's worth noting that having a crutch like this can make a bigger mental impact than physical (you feel more confident because you believe the beta blockers will help keep you from messing up). Also, like a crutch, most people grow not to need beta blockers after some experience.

I'm not saying that you should immediately turn to medication, but since public speaking is more feared than death, I think it's only fair to mention something like beta blockers, confidence in which can help reduce the fear.

<comment><USER20> I can vouch for this, and if your need some social validation, I hear that Beta Blocker usage is rampant on the PGA tour, where an unwelcome twitch at the wrong time can cost thousands of dollars.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> \+ What's it about?

\+ Do you know your material?

\+ How long is it for?

\+ Are you explaining, lecturing?

\+ What is the style?

If you know more about it than the audience, then say up front that you expect everyone in the audience to know more than you about various bits, and that you're simply there to share something on which you have some expertise. Starting with that tends to put an audience on your side, and emphasises that you acknowledge their expertise.

Depending on your answers to the questions, though, this might not be appropriate, but without more to go on I can offer no other advice.

Just for reference, I regularly speak to audiences of up to 500, and have several times spoken to audiences of up to 2000 and done live television.

</comment><comment><USER22> As others have said, practice is essential--especially in front of other people or at least a video camera.

Also, become comfortable with silence. Standing front-and-center in a crowded room and staying quiet for even a couple moments can be terrifying at first-- much more difficult than actually speaking in public. As a result, many inexperienced speakers end up rushing through their entire speeches, reciting word for word what they practiced without emotion or even an awareness of what they are saying, too afraid of silence to stop for even a moment.

In reality, such pauses do wonders in not only breaking up the cadence of your speech to grab the audiences attention, but also allowing you the opportunity to collect your thoughts and contemplate what points you want to make on your next topic or what points you need to add before moving on. Try forcing yourself to pause for a couple seconds as you put up each new slide.

Although I usually like to have the first few sentences of a speech planned out verbatim to get the ball rolling smoothly, I still make a point of just standing quietly for about 10 seconds after the introduction. It's enough to get me comfortable with the feeling of silence so that I'll be able to pause and collect my thoughts later on, and just long enough to make the audience curious and attentive--ideally causing everyone to look up and be alert as your start into your speech.

</comment><comment><USER23> I know exactly how you feel.. This is my advice from my own experiences, research and seeking advice.

QUICK FIXES \- Force yourself to practice 5-10 times a day. You will find natural confidence in the automacity you'll gain from the slides & the presentation being second nature after so much practice. Also see your powerpoint slides as safety mechanism - imagine if you had to do the talk without anything to refer to and keep your thoughts on track!

\- Bach's Flower Rescue Remedy - OK I'm a bit of a hippie - but this is a natural remedy for fighting anxiety that many people swear by.

\- Beta blockers - I've never tried them, and if you've never tried them - I'd recommend giving a dose a trial run before the presentation day just so you know how you will be feeling.

LONG TERM FIXES

\- Cognitive Behaviour Therapy - although the psychologist will basically tell you to 'ride out the anxiety' and counter any negative thought with realistic positive thoughts. This takes time and a lot of exposure to the feared situation to become effective.

\- Toastmasters. Proven, tested and true. If you get to 1 meeting a week, you would probably end up giving up the beta blockers pretty soon (if you do decide to try them).

</comment><comment><USER24> I've been pitching quite a bit recently to various sizes of audience (although nothing as big as 2000 people) but meykey take away (perhaps unsurprisingly) has been practice, a lot.

More specifically:

\- Practice in front of a mirror, this really helped me focus on my body language (reduce arm waving, and feet shuffling and the like). It also made me realise I don't look like a complete idiot or anything when I speak, and I actually look perfectly normal, which was a big boost of confidence.

\- When you get bored of practicing the full talk, do more rapid run-throughs, focussing solely on the key-points. For an ignite talk that might be just one word or phrase per slide. It's quite energising to blast through your talk like that, particularly just beforehand, and it really helped me remember the main points for each slide.

Good luck!

</comment><comment><USER25> Whenever I have to do this, I find it helps tremendously if I can socialize with my audience prior to the talk, as opposed to just getting a cold intro, and stepping up to the podium. 2000 people is a lot to socialize, but perhaps if you can get some time to chat with people in the front rows beforehand, it may calm your nerves.

The other suggestion is somewhat controversial, but a friend of mine mentioned the same problem and talked to his doc about it. He gave him a very low prescription anti-anxiety scrip. He takes it now before his talks and says it works magic. Unfortunately I don't recall the name of the drug, but it might be worth investigating.

..and..practice..a lot.

</comment><comment><USER26> I've found that when preparing for a presentation, writing out my entire speech (in spoken language), and rehearsing from that, THEN boiling it down to keywords on index cards, helps tremendously in organizing your thoughts, determining the level of details needed etc. But this has probably more to do with speech technique than keeping your nerves under control.

Once you're on stage, locate a few spots in the back of the room - <USER2> cameras, not persons, and keep your eyes at them. Don't look at people, it's confusing at best.

</comment><comment><USER27> Beta blockers work for me. I took public speaking in college and passed with an A+, but, had to make an emergency visit to the shrink. If your a complete social phobic, as in my case, it may get worse where you avoid the meeting at the last minute from panic attacks. I went to a meeting the other day thinking I was going to talk with 1-2 people and ended up giving a lecture to 20+ people. Thank God I loaded up on Propanelol and a couple of Klonipin about 25 minutes before hand -- spoke 2 hours without a hitch.

</comment><comment><USER28> Remember that the audience _wants_ you to succeed. Watching an uncomfortable speaker makes an audience uncomfortable as well, so they will be on your side when you take the stage.

Rehearse like crazy and visualize yourself speaking to the large crowd. It's possible the stage lighting will be so bright that you won't be able to see the audience when you present. If that is the case, visualize your most successful practice and pretend you are speaking to that smaller group again.

</comment><comment><USER29> Just like with hacking, it's all about practice.

When you're programming for the first time, you have no idea what you're doing.

When you give a talk in front of an audience for the first time, you have no idea what you're doing.

If you've done it 5 or 10 times before, it becomes less intimidating: you know what to expect, and while you may not be 100% confident in your abilities, you will be confident enough to give a decent talk without feeling too embarrassed.

</comment><comment><USER30> Actually, it's not that different (to talking to 20 people). You'll probably be interrupted less often and it may be harder to make eye contact with people, but if you've already given talks then you're way more than half way there.

So instead of being worried, think of it as a chance to give a really excellent talk where you're going to be able to say what you want with less interruptions. Go for it (and good luck :o)

<comment><USER31> We literally just posted almost the same thing at the same time...weird.

<comment><USER30> Great minds...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> I was in your same situation a year ago and what helped me was literally ignoring the fact that so many people were there. Speaking in front of a dozen people is no different than 2000. The streaming aspect shouldn't bother you either because you see no difference. If I were you I would stop focusing on the crowd and more on the presentation. You are speaking in front of 2000 people for a reason, give them a good show!

</comment><comment><USER32> step 1) Watch this motivational video <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wS5xOZ7Rq8>

step 2) It's an Ignite talk. So ignore most of the advice from the video. Assuming you are presenting something you are passionate about, just let that come through.

I've organized Ignite Salt Lake and Ignite at the Velocity Conf. I've watched 100s of Ignite talks. If you search, you'll find lots of good advice on how to prepare the slides and yourself.

My advice map out a coarse flow for the slides, practice a few times with the timer, adjust the slides, maybe do that once more, then make the slides as artistic as you can/will and run through it a few more times, preferably in front of some people and make the final tweaks.

15 seconds can be both longer and shorter than you expect. Practicing with the timer will make all the difference.

On the night of, just go for flow and avoid dead air (though a pregnant pause can be used to great effect).

The number of people in the audience is irrelevant.

Worst case it will be over in 5 minutes.

</comment><comment><USER33> This might help if you're nervous about being in front of people:

[http://ask.metafilter.com/146250/How-Do-I-Manage-My-Fear- of-...](http://ask.metafilter.com/146250/How-Do-I-Manage-My-Fear-of-Public- Speaking)

[http://ask.metafilter.com/100629/How-do-I-get-over-my- terror...](http://ask.metafilter.com/100629/How-do-I-get-over-my-terror-of- public-speaking)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the great advice all of you. Just sitting here, reading it all & following the links gave me a massive boost of confidence. I've started my outline, wrote my 'story' & will be practicing every day starting tomorrow. I just found out that the slides need to be in next week so while my anxiety levels have decreased, my stress levels have not. Fingers crossed.

</comment><comment><USER34> My trick is to spot someone in the audience, preferably in the middle who is really interested and maintain eye contact with that person, it increases the level of comfort 10X and makes you feel less conscious about others in the room. Keep changing the "chosen one" every few minutes or so.

</comment><comment><USER35> Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance! Also, be yourself and remember not to talk too fast.

<comment><USER36> > remember not to talk too fast.

1000x Yes. The first couple of run throughs, talk so slow it's painful. Just drag things out and speak very clearly. Record it and listen, it'll probably be faster than you expect.

Also, try dividing your speech up and using a lap timer - sometimes when you go back to work on rough spots and hit certain sections more than others, it messes with your pacing.

And be relaxed, but enunciate! Auditoriums and microphones are less forgiving on the rounded edges of speech.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> One that works well for me: give the talk (ahead of time) in front of a bunch of people you respect. When you totally screw that one up and look like an idiot, you'll be so afraid of a repeat performance on game day that you'll be able to find and fix most of your problems.

</comment><comment><USER38> You might be surprised how much good ten deep, slow, focused breaths can do your nerves.

</comment><comment><USER39> c1sc0, I started writing a comment here at around 9:00 this morning. After the fourth paragraph, I decided it should likely be a blog post.

So (pardon the redirect) you'll find almost everything I can contribute to this topic here: [http://www.ideasonideas.com/2010/11/how- to-%E2%80%9Crock%E2%...](http://www.ideasonideas.com/2010/11/how- to-%E2%80%9Crock%E2%80%9D-your-next-talk/)

I hope this is helpful, and now I really need to get back to work! (Funny how a single comment can derail one's morning.)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> I know I'm a bit late, but this is what I'll be presenting next week at LeWeb: <http://www.coldwaterswimming.com>

</comment><comment><USER40> One of my professors swears that "curling his toes" before he speaks calms his nerves. He's a little out there, but you never know.

</comment><comment><USER41> Is anyone involved with Toastmasters society? I have been considering joining for a while now.

</comment><comment><USER27> Btw, just about every professional performer, especially popular musicians, pop beta blockers.

</comment><comment><USER42> Klonopin.</comment>


Mashup Evernote and Dropbox Content With Postachio - <AUTHOR> http://thetechblock.com/mashup-evernote-dropbox-content-postach-io/ Thank to the Tech Block about announcing our Dropbox blogging integration - now you can mash up your Evernote and Dropbox content with Postach.io :) <comment><USER2> Interesting - How does formatting work on the content stored in Dropbox? Is it just HTML on Dropbox or can it be markdown or even word docs with images, etc.

<comment><AUTHOR> At the moment you can put in HTML or Markdown files. The formatting is handling by the sites theme, but you're welcome to add inline styles to the HTML files.

Eventually we'll add support for any kind of file that you can put in Dropbox.

Good question, thanks!

<comment><AUTHOR> Oh, here's our documentation on using Dropbox with Postach.io:

[http://help.postach.io/intro-to-using-dropbox-with- postach-i...](http://help.postach.io/intro-to-using-dropbox-with-postach-io)</comment></comment></comment>


Google's balloon-based wireless networks may not be a crazy idea - <AUTHOR> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/06/googles-balloon-based-wireless-networks-may-not-be-a-crazy-idea/

<comment><USER2> I find it funny how the starting assumption is that one of the smartest technology companies in history is clueless.

Technically the idea sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Wireless networking has the smallest equipment and capital footprint of all networking so it's by far the easiest to deploy in areas that don't have much existing infrastructure. Using free-floating blimps or aerostats seems like one of the simpler ways to put transmitters at sufficient altitude to increase coverage.

Additionally, from a business standpoint it may not seem like there's a lot of money in Africa but that's a very prejudiced sentiment, I think. Many parts of Africa are developing quickly, there is already money to be had there. Moreover, over the coming decades even more of Africa will develop. And by then Google will have the brand recognition, the connections, the good-will, and the operational experience to dominate the market providing services to a market of over a billion people.

Over the next several decades the economies of Africa will grow by trillions of dollars of GDP. With a comparatively modest initial investment Google can gain a foothold into providing services to those economies. This is a very smart strategic move, in my view.</comment>


Ask HN: Where is WordPress heading in 2018? How's it evolving? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> Given that they just patched a bug caused by their insistence on using their own bullshit string futzing "prepared statements", I don't think "evolve" is the right term.

Stagnate maybe?

<comment><AUTHOR> Interesting. What do you think WP will be like in the coming years even if it is stagnating?

<comment><USER2> Maybe lookup the definition of stagnating.</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Need help with Libya address system - <AUTHOR>

Hello HN community - my friend who lives in Libya says that it is a huge problem that there is no street address system in Libya.  It is really difficult to find a business or location without stopping to ask many people along the way.  He says that many of the streets do not even have names.
We were trying to think of a technical solution to this - many Libyans have cell phones and smart phones.  If there was a way that a business could add their name, category, and geo location on a map it would be really helpful to everyone.
Does something like this already exist that they can try to get people to adopt?  If not, are there resources that he could tap in to to help to build this?
He reached out to me for help and I am reaching out to the HN community - this is an opportunity to try to solve a very real problem that affects millions of people every day.
Thanks! <comment><USER2> Have you researched the Libyan addressing system? A quick google search gave quite a few results. First you need to confirm the existing system and how people find a business.

I can understand asking people for directions once in neighborhood but how do people get to neighborhood first. How do they know which neighborhood has a particular business. For example, it appears Canadian embassy is in Tripoli Tower but how people know where is Tripoli Tower.

This is a very common way to find places in developing countries. Landmark based, block based, direction based, ...

</comment><comment><USER3> I do not believe that a cellphone/a phone number should directly be tied to a geographical address.

If lost or stolen, there's no real way to "disown" a number without also inducing fraudulent disown announcements; also if a thief snatches e.g. a purse with key and phone, he will immediately know where to break in.</comment>


Ask HN: Bootstrapping and accepting payments - <AUTHOR>

All,
I am working on a SAAS project that will be serving small businesses (5-50 employee). I do not want to go the funding route until I have some paying customers and a few product iterations.
I am pretty sure that I will eventually go with braintree for payment processing but I would like to avoid a monthly fee during the first 4 months while I focus on customer acquisition. since this is bootstrapped from my own wallet I would rather spend that money on marketing and customer acquisition.
What would you suggest as an alternative to braintree for the short term?
I know paypal is out there but posts on this board have scared me away from that option.  But maybe I should consider them.
Also, do you think customers would be turned off by a manual monthly invoicing via email in the short term? If I where to go this route I would probably allow the first 30 days for free then invoice them for the following month. I would expect that the volume would be pretty low in the first few months so the labor involved may not be a deal breaker.
The manual process would spare me from developing an integrated payment system that would ultimately be replaced.
What are your thought?
Thanks, Ian <comment><USER2> Ian, I know that Paypay has a poor reputation for being buyer centric but they have 14% of the global market (<http://buswk.co/eN1mCa>) so they are doing something right. I deployed Paypal for my SAAS (<http://www.simplesecurityra.com>) and it was really simple to setup. I wanted to do a subscription based service with automatic billing and it works really well. I have quite a few users now and have never had a problem. I would agree that having a monthly subscription is lot likely to mean you get a lot less re-evaluating the service. I mean it works for gym's and cable TV so why not you?

There are no monthly fees and the transaction fees are not that bad (GBP for me):

Purchase payments received (monthly) Fee per transaction

£0.00 GBP - £1,500.00 GBP 3.4% + £0.20 GBP

£1,500.01 GBP - £6,000.00 GBP 2.9% + £0.20 GBP

£6,000.01 GBP - £15,000.00 GBP 2.4% + £0.20 GBP

£15,000.01 GBP - £55,000.00 GBP 1.9% + £0.20 GBP

above £55,000.00 GBP* 1.4% + £0.20 GBP

You could also consider Google checkout and Amazon checkout but I think Paypal is the best of these choices.

<comment><USER3> I also use Paypal for my SaaS applicationm (<http://servermonitoringhq.com>). I run a free trial so I'm not asking for payment upfront. Only when the customer decides to signup do they see the paypal subscription button.

My target market is quite paypal savvy so it turns into quite an easy way to pay. i.e. You just enter you username, password. From what I've seen all the current solutions for gathering monthly payments require a merchant account.

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> One other option I have been considering is a manual process using FreshBooks.com. Using the subscription services, I would just have to add the new customers when they joined and remove them when they canceled. It appears from the documentation that it will send an invoice and automatically charge the customers credit card.

From the freshbooks website...

Overview

Managing subscriptions to FreshBooks centers around creating recurring profiles. The same functionality available in the web application found on the Invoice tab under the Recurring subtab is available through the FreshBooks API.

FreshBooks recurring profiles create and send invoices automatically for you so you don't have to manage them yourself. FreshBooks recurring profiles do some interesting tricks:

        * Automatically send recurring invoices monthly, yearly, or as little or often as you would like.
        * Automatically charge your client's credit card whenever you generate an invoice.
        * Rack up charges. Add or remove line items from a subscription at any time.
        * Send invoices by email or through the post.

</comment><comment><USER4> Ian, Braintree is inexpensive, I would recommend you bite the bullet and integrate with them from the start. If a customer is willing to invest their data with you or rely on your services then you should reciprocate and show your dedication by paying the monthly fee + transactions. Set it up and then focus on covering those costs by acquiring customers.

Good luck!

<comment><USER5> I don't consider Braintree to be inexpensive at all. But that's subjective, so let's get the facts out there. The monthly minimum I had to pay (minimum of fees) was $100, plus a $75 monthly fee. This is pretty expensive to me.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Manual billing definitely has some drawbacks. My SaaS customers are split between those on automatic billing and those who log in every month to pay. Be aware that people on manual billing (in my experience, anyway) tend to treat it like the cable bill - something they feel have a couple of weeks to pay. They never seem to catch up, either (e.g. 'I just paid that two weeks ago', oblivious to the fact they were two weeks late). And if you hammer them with billing reminders, they tend to tune out, and eventually miss that inevitable termination notice. I've had so many customers on manual billing passively cancel over the years (i.e. stop paying, not respond to emails) and then reappear out of the ether months later that I now wait at least six months to completely wipe their account data.

Manual billing also forces customers to consciously reevaluate whether it's worth paying for your service every time they log in to pay a bill.

</comment><comment><USER7> I've run into this same issue - trying to hack on a side project to accept payments and I don't have $100's / month to pay fees on a real payment processor like braintree or authorize.net - nor do I want to bother with a merchant account for a project I'm spending an hour or two a week on. You can go with Paypal or Google Checkout but both seem less-than-professional in my opinion. You're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place.

What I'd love to see is something like Square - but for online payments. I can link square to my normal bank account, there's no monthly fee, no merchant account to deal with, etc - just a per transaction fee.

Online payments are a nightmare for a small bootstrapped side project, and in least in my research there's no good solution.

</comment><comment><USER8> Have you looked at CheddarGetter?

[http://support.cheddargetter.com/discussions/questions/271-c...](http://support.cheddargetter.com/discussions/questions/271-cheddar- gateway) CheddarGateway is $20/month and $0.15 per transaction

I haven't used it, just know the developers. Price point sounds in your range (maybe).

<comment><AUTHOR> I don't see the option you mentioned on their site. From the pricing plans it looks to be the same price as braintree

<comment><USER8> Comment #4 by Jonathon on July 22 '10. This is the Cheddar Gateway.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> i hate it, but i've gone with paypal and spreedly, as suggested by patio11.

i hate the fact that i need to use it, but its wasted time, resources and effort for me to wring my hands at the situation and wish that i had an invite to stripe (<http://stripe.com>), to hunt down a processor that will accept my low volume (i was rejected from several due to volume), or to buy into a more expensive situation that costs more than my estimated revenue.

</comment><comment><USER10> Have you looked into Amazon FPS? I'm in a similar position, and considering them as an alternative to PayPal.</comment>


Meldium (YC W13) Controls Your Team's Shared App Passwords For You - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/25/meldium/

<comment><USER2> How does it actually work? How can it fill out a password form field for me, but make it so I can't find out the password?

Can't I just sniff what my browser sends to the server?

I'm suspicious.

This is a real problem though.

PS: You might want to reconsider that name. Meldium, to me at least, just looks like someone typoed when trying to type Medium.

<comment><USER3> We log in on our end and push the session to your browser, so your browser (or that of whomever you shared the app with) never sees the password.

<comment><USER4> Doesn't this mean that if you are compromised so are all your users?

<comment><USER2> Yes, this is my next question.

Regardless of your answer I think these questions make it clear that you should definitely consider adding some more detailed explanations to your website about how exactly your product works. Especially for a security related product this is pretty important.

I say this as someone who is very interested in paying someone to solve this problem for me.

<comment><USER3> We actually have a security FAQ up here: <https://www.meldium.com/security>. The link is currently buried in our TOS, thanks for pointing out that we need to give it more exposure! We're definitely open to feedback as to what's not adequately covered.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> This is really cool. We use 1password with the 1pass file stored in a Team dropbox, but 1pass still doesn't have any group-facilities so we have to revoke/change passes by hand when someone leaves, etc. Very much looking forward to trying this out.

One thing that groupware password things never remember is that folks like to use their personal services, too, and requiring multiple-accounts for personal stuff is not workable.

Is there support for personal (e.g. private only to my login) accounts? That way, I could store all my stuff with a single browser plugin...

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes - by default your logins are only available to you, and they are only shared with the individuals that you explicitly add. We definitely want folks to be using the same tool for both team and individual passwords.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Sharing an account is a breach of terms of service on most of the services where this system would be used. It's really not clear to me whether every supported service has actually opted in to being handled by Meldium, or if it's something driven by clients, or even simply set up by end users. I could imagine a SaaS vendor might not be very happy with someone providing tools to help users get around their per-seat licensing model by automating account sharing...

<comment><AUTHOR> We're not looking to help anyone evade a vendor's pricing model. The unfortunate reality is that many services do not support multiple user accounts, and customers have no choice but to share.

For services that do support many users, we have deep integration that actually creates individual accounts for every new employee you hire. We have almost 20 of these services integrated now and we're always looking to add more.

We've had the opportunity to talk to many service vendors in the process of building Meldium and the response has been overwhelmingly positive. With provisioning integrated, Meldium removes one of the barriers to service adoption - it makes it easy for a company to add more accounts when the hire more people, and service vendors love this. We're always looking for tighter and higher-quality integrations with vendors - if you run a SaaS app and you'd like to see it supported on Meldium, ping me at email@example.com and we'll find a way to make it happen.

<comment><USER6> Thanks.. but you still didn't make it clear whether Meldium always works with the service-provider's co-operation and authorization, or whether you support account-sharing for services your customers want to use, without the vendor's explicit permission.

<comment><USER7> Come on, one would assume they would let you share a password even if it is "without the vendor's explicit permission".

Who's the customer here?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I was initially very excited by this as I skipped over the part where it was "Shared App Passwords". I'm currently using 1Password and sharing the password file via a dropbox account, however, as I look into the details, it appears Meldium would only work for a portion of what we use 1Password for.

I need a solution like this, but allows the storage and potential sharing of other types of passwords not associated with a specific website or service (server passwords, door codes, etc)

That being said, it looks like a great start!

<comment><USER9> We definitely agree that this can apply to more than just apps and we may extend to more kinds of data over time. We just opted to focus on apps for this first release.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I almost thought this was related to medium.com.

I wish they would have compared this to other existing products such as LastPass instead of comparing it to an excel spreadsheet.

</comment><comment><USER10> This looks great and is close to something I've specifically looked for in the past. My only suggestion would be that the pricing is going to be awkward for my use case.

Typically we work with many small clients and one of our issues is managing access to admin sites etc for these clients across our team. We have relatively few 'users', perhaps 5 - 10, but a large amount of shared apps. I currently have around 100 sets of login details on file in 1Password.

</comment><comment><USER11> Couldn't you just set up an account on LastPass or OneLogin and share access to that account?

<comment><AUTHOR> We think of Meldium as a tool for sharing accounts, not for just sharing passwords. While there are a lot of password managers out there, none of them are built for teams first. Meldium's browser extension makes passwords go away completely - they are never echoed or revealed to your teammates. We wanted to build a product that has geek-level security but also fantastic UX for end users of any technical sophistication.

<comment><USER12>
        We think of Meldium as a tool for sharing accounts,
        not for just sharing passwords.

Meldium seems to be a tool for sharing _web app_ accounts. Some of the accounts my team shares aren't for web apps.

        While there are a lot of password managers out there,
        none of them are built for teams first.

What about Passpack, which is what my team uses? Passpack has worked well for us, but I'm interested in alternatives because Passpack doesn't seem to be actively developed (bugs I reported months ago haven't been fixed and Passpack's blog is rarely updated).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> It's 2013, sharing passwords is so insecure. Things like OAuth should be used. I wouldn't be secured if they move towards something like <http://www.okta.com/what-we-do/single-sign-on.html>

</comment><comment><USER14> Scary as hell. Download password safe and keep your crown jewels at home! I don't care if users never see the password or if they are encrypted on their side. Giving your Twitter, Github, or AWS?! keys to someone else. Jesus, this is the wrong idea and anyone who gets burned deserves it! This speaks to a wider trend of turning your business information over to other people. Your internal helpdesk, mail, wiki pages, your source code, and now your passwords?! Come on. A rouge employee and you are fucked!

It would be interesting to see what they offer if someone exposed their database and caused your financial ruin?

<comment><USER15> Don't worry about the rouge employees it is easy to spot the red ones, it is the rogues that you need to worry about!

But I fundamentally agree, you need to consider that in many cases you are not just subject to your own risks and threats (internal and external) but each of your suppliers (and their suppliers such as Heroku and AWS) and their internal and external risks added to yours.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> Don't most of the services listed in the article already have multiple user accounts?

Github, Salesforce, Box, Google Apps, WordPress. These all support using multiple accounts right?

<comment><AUTHOR> The article doesn't really make it clear, but for each of those services we support (and prefer) multiple accounts. They can be connected under the "Team Services" link in the tool.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> I'm not terribly worried about ex-team members improperly accessing accounts and the like. There are pretty powerful legal deterrents in place to prevent this not to mention that I believe our team is trustworthy. Plus, common sense dictates that we only give super sensitive account credentials to a couple people.

On the other hand, I'm terrified of giving my account info to a 3rd party. Seems like the sweetest hacker target ever.

</comment><comment><USER18> I have been waiting for 1Password to add some kind of team feature for years. Even if it was as simple as adding an additional password file with a different unlock password, I would use that in a heartbeat.

They've really left themselves open to competition. Good luck to Meldium taking them on.

</comment><comment><USER19> Looks cool, but I wish 1Password would add a simple password sharing feature.

</comment><comment><USER20> We actually made some hack with 1Password and Dropbox. I still wonder why 1Password does not do something like this. It should be easy to do.

</comment><comment><USER21> This looks fantastic. It sounds like it uses a similar setup as Lastpass, but with a service for startups to manage accounts. They should offer a free tier for end users to store and manage passwords ala Lastpass, and then keep the team focused features as a premium upgrade.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the suggestion Jason. Our free tier actually covers up to five users, so it works great for both individuals and small teams. We knew that Meldium would be useful for large companies, but we've been surprised to learn that even very small teams love it too.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> Wow this is great! It would be nice to see Facebook as a supported app since it's useful for dev teams.

<comment><AUTHOR> Great suggestions - we'll have it soon. If you'd like to suggest apps, hit our UserVoice at <http://support.meldium.com/> \- we use that to decide what to build next.</comment></comment>


Facebook product engineer says don't learn web development - <AUTHOR> http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1bixu4/im_bob_baldwin_a_facebook_product_engineer_whos/c972n21

<comment><USER2> I actually agree with him and not that I hate web development.

I just see the mobile development as the natural progression in programming. I started programming before the web existed on the Windows platform where solid code and good understanding of algorithms were mandatory and the runtime and user experience was predictable (sans blue screen).

Not saying you don't need these same habits today, but HTML, CSS & Browsers just seem messy to me, hard to get correct. I cringe when I have to dive into a HTML formatting issue on some older browser dealing with stuff that is not entirely in my control.

But diving into an Objective C controller dealing with a problem just reminds me of the pre-web days I guess.

</comment><comment><USER3> As of now, if you have lots of developers and money to burn, build and maintain native on every platform. Personally, as a single developer with an app where multi-platform is more important than UI snappiness, I'm going with HTML5/CSS/js.

</comment><comment><USER4> Classic redirection: "How can I be a great web developer?", "Don't be a web developer".</comment>


Col. State-Pueblo Vigilant Against Metaphor, Allusion, Unpleasant References  - <AUTHOR> http://www.popehat.com/2014/01/21/colorado-state-university-pueblo-vigilant-against-metaphor-allusion-unpleasant-historical-references/ <comment><USER2> I don't really care for the reaction to this. While I support the guy's cause, sending an email to every person on campus is not appropriate use of University IT resources and they were correct to suspend his email account for a time, regardless of the content of the message.

What confuses me is why the All-Students, All-Faculty, etc distribution lists were open to be sent to by anyone (or at least, by faculty?). That was a much bigger mistake, IMO.</comment>


Dominos Pizza Tracking in Real-time using Python - <AUTHOR> http://random.noflashlight.com/scripts/dominos.py

<comment><USER2> The script appears to be a command-line tool where you plug in your telephone number and it hits a Dominos backend, parses the page and returns the status of your pizza from oven to delivery.

I'm actually surprised Dominos tracks each pizza with that granularity.

<comment><USER3> The competition in the pizza-delivery business is brutal, these days. They have to adopt every tool to keep pace. In the 1980's, the field was wide open, and Domino's could afford to slack. Now, the field is packed with strong competitors such as Papa John's (founded by former Domino's execs), etc.

<comment><USER4> I have to find my copy of Snow Crash. That beginning of that novel might foreshadow how cut-throat the pizza delivery business is in the future.

<comment><USER5> I gotcha.

"When it gets down to it -- talking trade balances here -- once we've brain- drained all our technology into other countries, once things have evened out, they're making cars in Bolivia and microwave ovens in Tadzhikistan and selling them here -- once our edge in natural resources has been made irrelevant by giant Hong Kong ships and dirigibles that can ship North Dakota all the way to New Zealand for a nickel -- once the Invisible Hand has taken all those historical inequities and smeared them out into a broad global layer of what a Pakistani brickmaker would consider to be prosperity -- y'know what? There's only four things we do better than anyone else

 _music_ movies _microcode (software)_ high-speed pizza delivery

...Pizza delivery is a major industry. A managed industry. People went to CosaNostra Pizza University four years just to learn it. Came in its doors unable to write an English sentence, from Abkhazia, Rwanda, Guanajuato, South Jersey, and came out knowing more about pizza than a Bedouin knows about sand."

<comment><USER6> Man, I miss Stephenson's old writing style.

His newer work is good, but nothing compared to his first few.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> You can use this python script to order Domino's pizza from the command line:

[http://ryochan7.wordpress.com/2008/01/10/pizza-py- party-02-r...](http://ryochan7.wordpress.com/2008/01/10/pizza-py- party-02-release/)

</comment><comment><USER8> Wow. This is why I love HN; it's little gems like that make me come out of my lurk-shell and say _thank you_. This is amazingly simple, which makes me wonder why I'm writing so much PHP/SQL and not writing code as eloquent as this.

</comment><comment><USER9> Fantastic! Now if only Domino's pizza didn't taste like wet newspaper smothered in ketchup.

<comment><USER10> Pizza snob. You know you eat it at meetups.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> That's pretty awesome. You could probably extend this nicely to send you text messages when the status changes.

</comment><comment><USER12> You may find it amusing to 'surveil' your Dominoes pizza.

But what if Dominoes did the same to you? This is a short animation by the ACLU, imagining a zero privacy society. [http://www.aclu.org/pizza/index.html?orgid=EA071904&MX=1...](http://www.aclu.org/pizza/index.html?orgid=EA071904&MX=1414&H=1)</comment>


NYC May Pull the Plug on Cashless Restaurants, Retailers - <AUTHOR> http://gothamist.com/2018/11/28/cashless_restaurants_nyc.php <comment><USER2> > In some ways, making a card a requirement for consumption is analogous to > making identification a requirement for voting. The effect is the same: It > disempowers communities of color.

This correct in the sense that we're solving the wrong problem. The problem is that many people from poor communities lack any form of government identification. It's also a problem that they are locked out of 21st century payment systems. We should focus our efforts on fixing those problems, not making sure they can continue to exist with sub-par services.

<comment><USER3> "Eliminate the unbanked in NYC" is a lot harder to achieve than "require businesses to accept cash."

<comment><USER4> I always imagined the solution was some sort of universal bank account.

Every SSN/ITIN/EIN has a bank account with some basic defined features attached. The account might technically be operated by a state entity to solve some of the cost problems of many accounts with near-zero balances. Might fit well with the "turn post offices into banks" proposal that was big a year or two ago--let them be the point of service for the universal account.

If this seems too Bolshevik, it could be a state-run "API only" product-- consumers have to associate the account with a private-enterprise bank to get typical consumer features (cash deposits and withdrawls, a debit card). Let consumers migrate the account to the "servicer bank" of choice the way you can port your phone number from T-mobile to Sprint, and it would spur a competitive market.

You'd also get some huge knock-on benefits. Everyone has a bank account for direct deposit, so those predatory prepaid-debit cards for wages become obsolete. Distributing welfare and social security is a lot simpler. It provides a huge and uniform target for anyone wanting to do something new in the payment space-- talk to their API and you can reach every potential customer in the nation, rather than going bank by bank.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> How is it possible to be unbanked in America in 2018? There are dozens of options for an account with ACH and a Visa/MC debit card, before even touching credit. From the big 4 banks' traditional products, to neighborhood credit unions, to websites like Ally and Simple, to apps like Chase Liquid and Amex Serve. Meanwhile even shitty minimum-wage jobs are with bureaucratic corporations that would never dream of paying employees in literal cash.

<comment><USER6> It's not so easy if you're on ChexSystems—among other things.

<comment><USER5> Sure you won't get a full fledged checkwriting account, but would that really stop you from getting a debit card with direct deposit?

<comment><USER6> it's been a long time, but I speak from experience. Made a few mistakes, overdrew a checking account (by like $50), and I had a tough time getting back on my feet. Nobody would give me a bank account of any kind. I cashed my checks into cash at walmart. Perhaps there are better solutions out there now, but at the time I was lucky to discover US Bank didn't look into chexsystems so eventually was able to get an account with them.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Interesting perspective. I figured NYC would go all-in on cashless because cash facilitates tax evasion.

And to most governments, tax collection > human rights / conveniences.

</comment><comment><USER8> Hmmm....I wonder if a hotel would be considered "retail".

That could make booking a room at the Plaza pretty fun, and paying the bill would be hysterical- especially if paid in twenties!

</comment><comment><USER9> Instead of forcing businesses to accept cash, why don't they provide debit cards to the poor?

<comment><USER10> Because providing debit cards to the poor costs money, and may not even help if they're getting paid in cash.

Whereas this approach keeps the cost of handling cash on the restaurants.</comment></comment>


How do you manage finances in a relationship? - <AUTHOR> My parents were divorced growing up and I have never had an example of how people manage finances in a relationship. I take care of my finances well, but how does that scale in a relationship? I have been asking a lot of friends who are married or asking my friends how their parents manage finances. In general, I see 3 models.
Model 1) Separate accounts with 1 shared for communal expenses.
Model 2) Breadwinner brings home money and stay-at-home-partner will manage the finances.
Model 3) Breadwinner handles all finances  and gives money to the other partner.
Most of my getting-by-decently-married friends seem to be in Model 1) or 2). In general, Model 1) seems to be common amongst couples when 1 of the 2 people is not well educated in personal finance. Of my higher-income married friends, they usually fall into Model 3).
I am interested in different frameworks for decision making in relationships especially with investments, debt, and long term planning. I am also interested in dynamic frameworks that account for asymmetrical incomes between partners. Ex, each partner contributes 10% to a savings account to prepare for a 6-month emergency fund, 10% into an investment account, etc...
I know this is quite a personal subject, but I am just looking to educate myself and prepare myself. I appreciate all answers and insight.
Thank you in advance. <comment><USER2> I have tried many many things.

One thing I have learned is despite all having our own quirks, we all respond to pain similarly.

If you disconnect the pain of bad behavior from actions, you will break a framework/model with potential.

We built a system which has relatively quick feedback with a high level of automation.

The key thing was open communication, collaboration, and a willingness to feel pain...you will adapt and make better choices because of it.

I get you are looking for more of the dynamics of an entire framework. I felt that key point was the crux of it all. Apply that to any of your models and I would argue that is a good starting point. The other note would be, if it requires more than an hour per week of planning, prep, etc. there is a high(er) potential of failure.

Automate, automate, automate!

We do have a framework that is a hybrid of your models where all money enters a single account and it flows out to pre-defined systems. We integrated a couple systems together creating an envelope system with cards that have no credit.

We have regular conversations on monthly expenses over dinner (exercises such as calculating cost of dinner, projects, restaurants for the week), much like you might have at work trying to understand operating expenses and we adjust.</comment>


Thanks but No Thanks – Things to Avoid When Recruiting Co-founders - <AUTHOR> http://grasshopperherder.com/thanks-but-no-thanks-things-to-avoid-when-recruiting-co-founders/

<comment><USER2> I understand the spirit behind "don't nickel and dime me". But remember that stingy is a trait that comes in handy for negotiating investments, supplier agreements, pricing, and exits.

There's a crucial difference between someone who's stingy because they don't value your contribution and someone who's stingy because they're cheap. Run from the former, but you may find you like the latter once you're on the same side of the table... which you will be for many years to come!

<comment><USER3> The key distinction is 'are we making money of each other' vs 'are we making money together'.

<comment><USER4> Never forget Rachel from Bladerunner. If a CEO offers you 1%, you aren't in the business, packaging up your skills and selling them on to other investors so the CEO can cash out while you stick around for your so-called options is the business.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> _If you offer me 1% of the equity, I'll do 1% of the work. If you offer me 25% percent, I'll do 25%. If you offer me 60%, I'll insist on only taking 25% and I'll work 24/7 for you._

My favourite line.

<comment><USER5> I see this sentiment it it's non-sensical. You're going to join a start for 25% and put in a quarter effort? I don't think so. You're seriously going to give up most of you're equity just to demonstrate your generosity? Nfw.

There is that nice story of the two cofounders who both tried to give the other 60%. Ok maybe, but this 60/25 statement is just grandstanding. If you would seriously do this you are too foolish to be a founder.

<comment><USER4> Refusing 60% equity is nothing like refusing free money. Think of it this way. I start something. I come to you and give you 100% of it. 100%! You take it, code, contacts, everything.

Now, you need a co-founder. Hey, what about me? What are you going to offer me? You can pick any number you like, but the point is that if I really am the best person to be your co-founder, you have motivation to offer me a substantial stake in the going concern.

So don't think of the author as "giving away" equity, think of him as taking 100% equity and then granting the CEO and original founder 75% to motivate him so as to maximize the value of the equity he keeps.

You might pick a different number, 50%, 49%, whatever, but you get the idea.

<comment><USER5> That's interesting, but I think wrong. First, a founding CEO doesn't need 75% versus 50% to keep them motivated. Second, if your are both going all-in, and your partner thinks you are worth 60%, you'd better have good reason to think you're only worth 25%. I could understand talking yourself down to 50/50 or 40/60, but 25%? That's makes no sense at all.

<comment><USER4> As I said, "You might pick a different number." I'm only arguing that declining all the equity you are offered isn't a WTF in and of itself.

As for the specific numbers... I really couldn't say anything without knowing the parties involved. Maybe these are completely fabricated to make a simple point, which is that he doesn't want to be lowballed, and he isn't outrageously greedy either.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Wow... the grass thingie on the bottom is so distracting that I almost can't read the article with it there! Thank goodness for Chrome Dev Tools. Right Click -> Inspect Element -> 'display: none;'

<comment><USER7> Easier still: Right Click -> Inspect Element -> Delete key

<comment><USER8> Works in the Safari inspector too.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> From the perspective a potential founder interviewing with a company, beware of any partner who insists on maintaining their majority position -- particularly if you will be the third or greater partner. It good indication you will not be a partner, but an employee. A second bad smell are companies without revenue and no audited valuation that require a significant buy-in. This behavior indicates a lack of the critical business acumen required to succeed.

</comment><comment><USER10> I have always felt that one of the saddest tragedies is that percentages have to add up to 100.

<comment><USER11> Only in zero sum games. ;) OK, that was cheeky. :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> One jaded ex co-founder for sale! Wisdom does not need to come in such a bitter form.

</comment><comment><USER13> What if I offer you 61%? :)

<comment><USER14> I'll inventify more time to work for you.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Yawn - seen all this before.</comment>


The Curious Case of the Greek Final Sigma - <AUTHOR> http://knight666.com/blog/the-curious-case-of-the-greek-final-sigma/ <comment><USER2> apparently that work is outdated (or incomplete) since 2010..

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_%E1%BA%9E](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_%E1%BA%9E)

"Capital sharp s (ẞ) [...] never occurs word-initially in German text, and traditional German printing (which used blackletter) never used all-caps. When using all-caps, current spelling rules require the replacement of ß with SS.[1] However, in 2010 the use of the capital sharp s became mandatory in official documentation when writing geographical names in all-caps."

</comment><comment><USER3> If Unicode defines the rule for initial/medial vs. final ſigma, I wonder why it doeſn't do the ſame for long vs. ſhort s.

More seriously, for encoding purposes shouldn't it be up to the application using the encoding to choose the right character, not up to the encoding system to specify the algorithm? But maybe I'm missing something.

<comment><USER4> The Unicode case-mapping algorithm is customizable by locale (e.g. uppercase i is İ in Turkish). A application which needed long s (for German Fraktur, for instance) could use a custom locale.

<comment><USER5> Specifying the rules for German Fraktur as executable code will be fun, as it uses the short s at the end of syllables, not words. So it is "Häschen" and "Häſcher"...

<comment><USER4> Unicode has things for this: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-width_non- joiner](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-width_non-joiner)

And customization is done declaratively, not imperatively.</comment></comment></comment></comment>