Ask HN: Got my first enterprise customer...now what? - <AUTHOR> Built my first app with Django, Postgres w/ Amazon S3. Have had a free option, a couple paid options ($5/mo, $9/mo), and an "Enterprise please contact" option. It's done well and paid the server costs and given me some profit, which is really cool.
But as I mentioned, this is my first app. Had a small corp contact me and they would like me to run an instance of this as a private thing. Essentially either on their servers or (I guess?) from my servers, but from their domain name. It's like an internal around the office tool.
The Enterprise option was kind of a lark so I didn't expect this.
Can anyone point me in the right direction from the tech or pricing side? Not sure if it would just be me installing the Django app inside their intranet, or if it would be a SaaS thing from me. Really no clue. I tried to stick with Django best practices for portable apps as this was my first time working with the framework, so theoretically with the right settings it should work anywhere.
Sorry if this is overbroad, trying to not give too much away. <comment><USER2> It's hard to give specific pricing advice without any information about your product, customer, competition or goals.

Try to figure out how much benefit the company thinks it would derive from your product. That's the absolute ceiling of what you can charge. If the company can earn an extra $1,000 by using it, it's not going to pay $5,000.

Now think how much the company is currently spending to deal with the problem (labor costs, software licenses, etc). This _might_ be a good estimate of the floor for how much you can charge.

It's hard to say without more information, but you'll probably want to think about pricing somewhere in between the ceiling and the floor.

The lower your price, the higher the ROI you can demonstrate and the more likely the sale (usually). Of course, if you price too low, it can make you look non-credible and scuttle a deal. I mean, whom would you rather trust, a neurosurgeon that charges $40,000 per operation or one who charges for $8 per operation?

Unfortunately, I suspect that you've anchored your prices low with the free, $5 and $9 tiers. As such, they'll probably balk at a high price for the app.

You'll need to break your customer's mindset and get him to understand that this new version is delivering a _lot_ more value than your existing plans.

Better yet, you might want to see what you can do to look like you're not even selling something that's at all like your other plans.

Focus on selling more than just the software. Support, updates and guarantees are all things that people pay for.

One key piece of advice I have is to think this through. Supporting one unique customer with a unique product version might cost you a lot more (in terms of time and aggravation) than it is worth. Think about how likely you are to sell similar "private things" to other firms (and what other benefits you might receive from this specific sale) before you decide that it's worth selling in the first place.

BTW, here's a book I wrote about pricing software: [http://taprun.com/pricing/](http://taprun.com/pricing/)

</comment><comment><USER3> Tech: deploy as a VM. For starters, allow the client to configure the VM network interface before downloading it. (On the fly, mount the VM with qemu nbd or whatever and write to the image, unmount qemu-nbd and proceed with the download request)

Expose everything as a RESTful API in the VM. NOTHING ELSE. Don't spend too much time hardening your VM security wise. Have a strict release schedule. Listen to the customer on what features they might want. But have your release schedule. Don't blindly add in everything this client wants.

If client is insistent on source code, throw an escrow clause into your contract. Dont had over everything yet.

Sales: draw up a contract. charge according to the sales figures of the client (yearly or one time is left to you). I cannot stress this enough.

</comment><comment><USER4> Charge them a Yearly license (non-refundable) if they want to host in their own environment. Also add a surcharge for intranet/internal hosting. The reason is that it may be a bit more work for you to offer it within their own servers/environment vs your own hosted SAAS.

I will break it down into the following:

1\. Charge a Yearly License upfront

2\. Add a surcharge for one time installation

3\. Come up with an SLA and get it agreed in writing

4\. Offer a separate paid "professional services" for customizations, enhancements or other requests from client.

</comment><comment><USER5> A general remark: A year ago, working at one of the The Big Four companies, I was taught one important lesson:

"Great disruption" \- in short: business has to be prepared that within a year or two there will be 10 new global competitors, selling the same or better product for a better price. In order to survive you have to provide excellent customer service and support, automate your internal processes to lower the margin costs, focus on comoditization of services (that is: people love Coke, it's cheap, you open it with your finger, you drink, you go - this is how we want to use insurance, mortgages, cars and credit cards and municipal administration), compete by improving quality not by lowering price, carefully listen to your clinet, do a lot of personal tailoring.

Ask for recommendations.

</comment><comment><USER6> You should look at WordPress VIP, GitHub for Enterprise, etc. as a guideline. I would caution you against doing an on-prem installation, as you'll have to learn the ins and outs of their organization, deal with their server setup ("Oh, you used Ubuntu? We use RHEL 5, is that a problem?") and would need to find some alternative to S3 for your backing data.

And as others will no doubt point out: charge a lot more. In some cases, Enterprise pricing is more like a Veblen Good ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good)) if you only charged say $25/month they would realize that your thing is junk, but the same thing for $250/month sounds very desirable.

</comment><comment><USER7> Run it like a SaaS duplicate your current setup for their ip, they'll probably use something like yourapp.theirdomain.com.

Keep control of the server and your code just provide it to them as a private version of your SaaS app.

I would price this at your current hosting costs x 2 + $200/mo to cover setup, added maint. + profit.

Note/Build in possible data/bandwidth useage increases as they scale up usage in their contract or terms of service.

If you're using stripe maybe setup a few bandwidth tiers above a base one you're setting them up on with private instance pricing. You can add this to a private instance pricing page too this might be popular.

congrats/good luck.

</comment><comment><USER8> Setting up inside even a similar-but-not-the-same environment is horrible. My experience: dependent packages the need to be compiled on their environment, undocumented network lags form internal servers/services, lack of sysadmin competency.

Perhaps an option, to keep this as a SaaS, is to offer a DNS mapping to your own server (give them access to, if they need root/admin access, seems so), but it is your environment set up as you need.

Pricing: Depends on what you're doing. Jumping from $9 to $10000s which is what this sounds like sounds a big step. Re-write pricing on a per-user per- month / per-usage instance perhaps? As they're enterprise, that's where your growth is: scale.

</comment><comment><USER9> I am going through this right now. What I did was price it monthly, ask for annual payment up front, and charge more.

I am charging $100/month for a drop-in enterprise tool for SME businesses. Don't forget to charge for services too. So the initial invoice is $1-2k and then $100/month.

It is somewhat annoying to setup the whole app inside their intranet, so you may need to research code mangling tools (protect your IP somewhat) and installing deps on their server, but otherwise just charge a lot more and provide service.

</comment><comment><USER10> Exciting... I don't know what you should do as I haven't hit that stage yet, but can you let us know what you ended up doing?

</comment><comment><USER11> First of all congratulations.

Second, this is a HARD problem, pricing at this level is never easy to figure out.

>But as I mentioned, this is my first app. Had a small corp contact me and they would like me to run an instance of this as a private thing. Essentially either on their servers or (I guess?) from my servers, but from their domain name. It's like an internal around the office tool.

Take a look at this: [https://github.com/pricing/plans](https://github.com/pricing/plans) and then this [https://basecamp.com/3/pricing](https://basecamp.com/3/pricing)

Both have "enterprise options" that are close in price, but are very different things, and for different reasons.

Githubs enterprise version is effectively a "self hosted white label" \--- if you love github and want to use it, but work for an organization like a bank that wants (needs) to have control that 2500 buck option is the ONLY thing that fits the bill.

On the other hand, base camp has three clear tiers... The only reason your going for that enterprise account is because your a LARGE organization, with lots of data or one that needs an SLA (cause your international? or deeply dependent on the product)... white label isn't even an option. This also means that a company might not be able to use basecamp due to compliance/legal issues.

Having looked at these, this request is going to fall into one of three camps.

\-- There is a legal reason they want it in house. \-- There is a business reason they want it in house (aka can they use your tool with clients) \-- They are fishing for a discount. 100 people is still a "small" company, can you see them getting $10,000 worth of value out of it?

Some of these answers may be apparent to you, some may not. Do put your sales guy hat on, and ASK QUESTIONS of this potential client

\-- Anticipated number of users? \-- Is it a hard requirement that you host this on your own infrastructure (for legal or other reasons)? \-- As well as running this under your own domain, do you need it co-braded, or fully white label? \-- Do you need invoiced billing, is there a preference for annual (with discount) or monthly billing?

With answers to the above in hand you should be able to make an informed guess about what the intent is. Fully white label, needed for clients, legal reasons, are going to be the "enterprise options" that cost lots of money. Your going to end up with a contract that spells EVERYTHING out, including some very high rates for support, and possibly a monthly fee for on call services that are "use it or loose it"

You may figure out that they are looking to SAVE money. If this is the case then its a fairly good deal for you provided you structure the agreement right. A large check today, might mean that you get to move to a reserved, pre paid instance if your using EC2, and you can pass through your s3 costs to them if they pass a certain threshold, bill them for the first terabyte, and tell them that each additional costs 10$ a month rounded UP.

This is also where you have to be careful. If your on a net 30 (you get paid 30 days after you submit an invoice) and then rack up a 20k s3 bill will you be able to cover it out of pocket till you get paid by them? Figure out your fixed costs, figure out your variable costs, break them out, mark them up and pass them along. Bill for everything else is the best option for YOU.

Lastly, Don't be afraid to say NO. Sometimes walking away from a deal is a bargaining chip, but don't take an offer, or offer something up that doesn't make you money.</comment>


Didn't Get Into TechStars? Don't Sweat it - <AUTHOR> http://www.currentlyobsessed.com/2011/07/22/didnt-get-into-techstars-dont-sweat-it/

<comment><USER2> I've applied to TechStars about 4-5 times, maybe more. Each time I applied I made more and more progress, and got as far as being a TechStars finalist [Top ~30], but no further. Despite each time being "nonselected" rather than "rejected", I still felt pretty discouraged (especially after not even being a finalist the final time).

When I looked back however, I changed my mind. While I may not have gotten into TechStars, that didn't mean they didn't have lessons to teach me. I learned a ton about entrepreneurship, learning to code, building a product and userbase, and networking, that I might not have ever learned had I not been striving to get into the program. I can't stop the entrepreneurial fire in me now, and I have David Cohen, Brad Feld, David Tisch, and more to thank for that.

<comment><USER3> I find your attitude very inspiring.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> The wording of this blog post is very silly, but I think there's a valid point in here, and that is: the right full-time job can still enable you to work on your startup.

That job probably isn't at Google though. There are lots of software engineering positions where hours are 9-5, the problems you solve aren't very hard and thus leave you with lots of mental energy, and there isn't much in terms of "extracurriculars" (conferences, etc) to occupy your time. These are terrible jobs if they're your only path for professional development, but they can be good for a 3-12 month stint while you try and get your startup off the ground. Low commitment, low stress, just enough to pay the bills and get you some health insurance.

I can't imagine a software position at Google ever matching that description though.

<comment><USER3> Do you or have you worked there? Neither have I, but friends attest that 9-to-5 is possible there. All depends on the person, their focus and the project they are working on.

<comment><USER5> I worked at Google for 5 years. 9-5 is possible, though most people work extra hours. The more important issue is the mental energy. 8 hours at Google is different from 8 hours at a low-key tech gig.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> The "logic" escapes me.

So, if you didn't make it into a program that gets 600 requests and accepts 2%(1) go ahead and apply to a company that four years ago got 1,000,000 applications a year and only accepted 0.05%. (2)

I get what he's saying but Step 1 being simply "get a job at google" is just baffling.

(1) [http://ask.techstars.org/how-many-companies-apply-to- techsta...](http://ask.techstars.org/how-many-companies-apply-to-techstars- each-seasoncity)

(2) [http://www.searchenginejournal.com/google- receives-1000000-j...](http://www.searchenginejournal.com/google- receives-1000000-job-applications-a-year/4308/)

<comment><USER3> Getting into to either isn't based on ratios and stats. Excellent, top-notch engineers that can get jobs at Google might find it harder to get into TechStars if they lack a viable team + idea. There are a LOT of positions open at Google right now. Not many spots at TechStars. Orders of magnitude difference.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> About #1... can you work 9-5 at a tech company? Is this guy a developer?

There are non-competes too so you can't build something Google is thinking on building or have you working on, also, and more importantly, most of the "successful" startup guys wont just "get a job at Google", I know many people here would, but it's hard for a lot of people that start businesses to:

1\. Just get a 9-5 job 2\. Be so deep into computer science that Google requires

For many of these guys to get to Google it would be easier to build something and then sell it to them.

</comment><comment><USER8> Doesn't google have an IP assignment like every other tech company, that affects what you can work/own, on the side?

Also, as oft-repeated, part-time startups don't quite work.

<comment><USER3> Consult a lawyer. State laws vary. Generally, the USA is a very worker- friendly place. Employers can't own what you do on your own time, and provided it is not competitive, you are likely okay. Granted with a company of Google's scope that may be hard.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Well, I'd say if you need someone to tell you to get a 9 to 5 job in order to pay the bills and save a floundering startup that can't get VC, you may have bigger problems.

</comment><comment><USER10> Can you even work 9-5 at google?

<comment><USER11> Anyone working in Google with an answer to this question?

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> If you have a mostly b2b startup, the applications for Tech Wildcatters are open for a few more day! <http://techwildcatters.com>, you get up to $25k

</comment><comment><USER13> Ironically, most of those in incubator end up working for Google anyways.

</comment><comment><USER14> The thing is.. You know that TechStars and YC are a bunch of VERY smart VCs and entrepreneurs. You have a huge respect and read everything from them. You're passionate about software engineering and had job offers from great companies but said "No, I want to start my business".

And then, those great guys just refuse you. Whatever the way they say it (Awesome other participants, not enough $ to fund everyone), it still mean that they had the opportunity to take you, and they said no. It talks for itself.. Why the fuck would you continue your startup if these extremely smart guys didn't want/trust you?

<comment><USER6> Now, I just disagree with this view.

The vast majority of companies don't take VC money. Many great companies had ideas that were quickly dismissed by these "VERY smart VCs and entrepreneurs".

Of course, there's also the argument that the 4-5 YC partners just can't take on _every_ potentially successful startup. Harvard can't accept every qualified candidate; there's not enough seats. But to then tell one of those rejected (or in this case, waitlisted!) to simply forget continuing on with their education elsewhere is just preposterous.

<comment><USER14> "The vast majority of companies don't take VC money. Many great companies had ideas that were quickly dismissed by these "VERY smart VCs and entrepreneurs"."

It's not for the money. It's for the experience that you get, the day to day conversation with all the teams, the contacts that you can get, the incredible feedback and criticism from highly experienced mentor AND the money (Which is really not that much, but just enough to get started and focus without stressing about how you will eat). And note here, I'm talking about _first time entrepreneurs_ ; Not someone who's got 5 startups already sold or a google/facebook/whatever CTO.

And yeah, you can argue that you don't _need it_ and sometime startups were wrongly dismissed by good VCs; but it's rare. It's their job to spot great startups/revolutionary ideas/extraordinary teams.

The fact that you are not chosen means something. You can't only dismiss it.. It's important to know why you weren't chosen. And "The teams were awesome this year" is not a reason. I mean, if your idea is awesome and you are great but they didn't accept you, there must be a reason. Is it because they didn't "get" it? Or felt that the market wasn't ready for it? Or that even though you _think_ you're awesome, you're not?

"Of course, there's also the argument that the 4-5 YC partners just can't take on every potentially successful startup. Harvard can't accept every qualified candidate; there's not enough seats. But to then tell one of those rejected (or in this case, waitlisted!) to simply forget continuing on with their education elsewhere is just preposterous."

Again, the problem is not to be refused, but to know why you are. If you were refused because of your grades, it's perfectly understandable. If it's because you can't speak the language of the university, it's understandable. But if you're among the best with a great personality and awesome grades, why would they refuse you?

And then, school is really different in the way they accept you. It's more about your dossier and your grade.. not about your potential. Whereas, with an incubator, they don't care about your past, they look at you. Your idea. Your personality. Your enthusiast. The fact that they refuse you means a lot more; PG really looked at you, talked with you and thought: "No. You're not in."

<comment><USER15> YC or techstars see you as a point in time. Fixed and whether you are right for their model or not. However, you are not fixed. you evolve, grow, talk to customers, pivot, refine business model, etc.

They don't see all of that. Or probably see your past as an indicator of future. May be you may not have the potential for another google or youtube but you might be successful. Successful by your own measure not someone else's yardstick.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Life inside a nuclear missile silo - <AUTHOR> http://www.theverge.com/culture/2011/11/1/2525857/2012-survival-condo-at-the-end-of-the-world <comment><USER2> > the idea that soon oil will run out, bringing about the end of society as we > know it

That's not what peak oil means. The oil will never "run out". In a hundred years we will still be pumping oil out of Saudi Arabia.

A person can be surrounded by a whole world of air and still suffocate if their lungs are inflamed and full of fluid. A person is doomed if the effort of drawing a breath consumes more oxygen than derived from that breath.

Likewise it doesn't matter how many barrels of oil are in the ground or under the sea if producing a barrel of oil takes more energy than can be derived from that oil. It doesn't matter how many acres are covered in tar sands if the facilities to convert those sands to oil aren't built.

That said, the people in this article are crazy.

<comment><USER3> I wouldn't be so sure.

I think one day we'll see oil wells with vast temporary solar arrays deployed next to them pumping oil for the millions of gas and diesel-burning engines that are still in the wild.

We'll be spending 10 barrels worth of energy to get a barrel of oil because there's so much infrastructure investment in oil.

<comment><USER2> There is a lot of interesting analysis regarding possible responses to declining oil production. If you respond to a 3% decline in production by building infrastructure to produce energy by other means, you only deepen the energy deficit because that infrastructure takes energy to build.

Check out this article: <http://www.theoildrum.com/node/8526>

You might right though. Sperm whale oil is still used to lubricate satellites.

<comment><USER4> If you look at how much energy has been harnessed by farms over time you will see a far more gradual increase. _In 2008, total worldwide energy consumption was 474 exajoules (474×1018 J=132,000 TWh). Oil remained the largest energy source (33%) despite the fact that its share has been decreasing over time. Coal posted a growing role in the world's energy consumption: in 2009, it accounted for 27% of the total._ <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_consumption>

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthetic_efficiency> Typical crop plants: 1–2% <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth> Permanent pastures: 26% Permanent crops 4.71% The estimated amount of irrigated land in 1993 was 2,481,250 km2

So something like 1% efficiency * 2,481,250 km2 * 1,000,000 m^2/km * 1kwh / m^2 * 1000w / kw * 8 hours a day * 365 days a year * 3600j = 2.60829 × 10 ^ 21J or 724,525TWH granted plants use much of that but farms are still producing something like 70% of the worlds energy and then spending a large fraction of that on farm animals.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Looks cool, but not buying into the whole every family needs a "compound" theory.

The part in the video about the idea of the earth getting closer to the galactic centre is hilarious. I don't think the speaker has any concept of the relative speed at which we're heading to the galactic centre, collision with Andromeda will happen first, and even that should likely be a non-event. By the time the Sun reaches the galatic core it will have long since burned out.

<comment><USER6> Indeed. It's funny hearing definitive statements about global warming ("I don't think carbon has anything to do with it") followed by an inadvertent but total admission of scientific illiteracy.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> There is a fascinating documentary/long-form article in VICE about another Nike missile silo in Kansas that was backed by a VC and fronted as Y2K fallout shelter/precision spring manufacturing facility for NASA but was in fact producing kilos of MDMA and analogue chemicals.[1]

One of the guys behind the operation, Leonard Pickard, was formally convicted of producing 200,000 doses of LSD in an industrial facility in Mountain View.[2]

Interestingly, the facility in Kansas was turned into an even more luxurious living abode than the hypothetical ones presented here. Think Scarface.

[1] [http://www.vice.com/hamiltons-pharmacopeia/getting-high- on-k...](http://www.vice.com/hamiltons-pharmacopeia/getting-high-on-krystle) (Scroll down)

[2] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Leonard_Pickard>

</comment><comment><USER8> There's a fortress mentality amoung many of the wealthy I know. Beyond gated communities and personal self defense it has extending to overly secure homes outside of major cities or secondary homes in other countries. Many of them think of it as "insurance" just in case the economic poop hits the fan and there's a more agressive backlash than OWS.

</comment><comment><USER9> Economist Robin Hanson has a lot of interesting stuff to say about the economics of existential risk, and how we might use refuges as payouts in prediction markets which forecast the end of the world.

<http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/07/refuge-markets.html>

</comment><comment><USER10> My major concern with using a former nuclear missile silo would be that it's hard to know whether Russia's intelligence service knows that it's been deactivated. The odds of of a nuclear exchange with Russia are low, but I'd prefer to know that my fallout shelter might not be targeted for a direct hit with an ICBM.

</comment><comment><USER11> An interesting and vaguely related article on the psychology of what happens to believers when nothing happens:

[http://healthland.time.com/2011/05/17/apocalypse-now-why- bel...](http://healthland.time.com/2011/05/17/apocalypse-now-why-believers- will-grow-stronger-when-the-world-doesnt-end/)

</comment><comment><USER12> I cannot imagine to live in a house without (direct) sunlight.

</comment><comment><USER13> The bunkers are cool structures.

The people in the video are crazy.</comment>


How Breaking the Rules Could Win You $250,000 - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/09/technology/mit-media-lab-disobedience-prize.html <comment><AUTHOR> The official prize program announcement from the sponsoring organization, the MIT Media Lab:

[https://www.media.mit.edu/disobedience/](https://www.media.mit.edu/disobedience/)</comment>


Ambassador Helps Companies Manage Referrals - <AUTHOR> http://www.forbes.com/sites/amitchowdhry/2013/04/02/ambassador-is-a-michigan-based-startup-that-helps-companies-manage-referrals/

<comment><USER2> Amit at Forbes has been covering startups in Michigan quite a bit - awesome to see.</comment>


Pseudo-Kufic: Renaissance Imitations of Arabic Script (2010) - <AUTHOR> http://resobscura.blogspot.com/2010/08/pseudo-kufic-renaissance-imitations-of.html <comment><USER2> This article goes into much more detail about why it became popular in the West to adorn textiles with pseudo-Kufic script during the Renaissance:

[http://www.laphamsquarterly.org/fashion/crusader- chic](http://www.laphamsquarterly.org/fashion/crusader-chic)

The short version is that it was fashionable in Fatimid Egypt for the ruler to bestow high quality garments to government officials as a sort of promition. These garments usually had verses from the koran embroidered along the hems. The crusaders brought back many of these garments to Western Europe where they became very popular, and the style was imitated in paintings.</comment>


Ask YC: How much compensation does a pre-revenue company offer an early outside director? - <AUTHOR>

We have a large list of potential external directors for our board, but I've been putting off approaching them in early stages. I don't want to do that much longer.
What kind of compensation makes sense to offer the first outside director(s) for a small startup? The last thing I want to do is make an offer that might inadvertently be insulting or one that is too much. I just really don't have an idea of what is common practice.
Just to give back a bit for your great advice, so far the best resource I've found for helping entrepreneurs form their board is here: http://www.fenwick.com/docstore/Publications/Corporate/Corporate_Governance_Guide.pdf <comment><USER2> See <http://venturehacks.com/articles/advisors-part-2> for a good discussion, normally 1-2% of common but it's a negotiation. If you really mean early advisors it may be more like 0.1-0.25% of common, but again it's a negotiation. They have a good quote from Warren Buffet "make sure that, for the people that count to you, you count to them."

</comment><comment><USER3> A nice thank you card? You have to start somewhere.</comment>


Slackware 14.0 released - <AUTHOR> http://www.slackware.com/announce/14.0.php

<comment><USER2> Honest question: what is the advantage of using Slackware in 2012?

<comment><AUTHOR> I was trying my hardest not to comment, but this is a pertinent question, maybe even THE question when discussing Slackware.

It's true that it might seem like an anachronistic distribution in 2012. It was actually the first distro I ever used back in the day when I started running Linux full time and increasingly had to interact with it professionally, and while I've long since moved on to other distros for a myriad of reasons, I wouldn't trade the years I spent running Slack for anything in the world,for a very simple reason, and that is that the old adage is absolutely true: when you run Distro X, you learn Distro X. When you run Slackware you learn Linux.

The whole distro, from the package manager to the init scripts is built around the KISS principle. Take the init scripts for example, they're nowhere near as powerful as, say, Upstart, but they're orders of magnitude easier to troubleshoot, and if you take the time to read through them (and yes, they're actually readable and _very well_ commented) you gain a great working knowledge of how Linux actually boots and gets everything up and running.

The same philosophy applies to every other corner of the distro. Want to learn how to compile stuff on Linux? Take a look at a Slackbuild script, everything is in there. Want to know exactly what goes on during a distro upgrade, like what packages have precendence and so on? Read UPGRADE.TXT ([http://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware- current/UPG...](http://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware- current/UPGRADE.TXT)). I can only dream that even a small percentage of so- called enterprise software I've come across had release notes and upgrade guides this clear and well written.

Another great thing is that they maintain a policy of minimal interference with upstream code. If you come across a bug, you can be fairly sure it's from upstream and not Slackware, instead of having to examine the gazillion patches other distros like Debian and its derivatives introduce into the package.

I could continue to wax poetic about it, but I think I've given you an idea. It's not an exaggeration to say that I probably wouldn't be working in IT today if I hadn't come across Slackware in the before time. It's fun, and if nothing else it's a great learning experience.

<comment><USER3> I haven't used Slackware, but all of the points you mentioned are valid for Arch Linux as well.

<comment><USER4> And with Gentoo. Not trying to start a Distro flamewar, but if someone wants to learn distro independent Linux, then he or she should try his or her hands on LFS. The next best thing after LFS would be Gentoo.

<comment><AUTHOR> Distro wars was why I was trying my hardest not to comment.

Personally if someone would have put LFS in front of me when I was just starting out with Linux, I would have freaked out. It's just too complex (although not complicated) to get up and running. But it's a good learning experience once you're comfortable with the basics.

As for Arch, it was one of my stops when I migrated away from Slackware, and while it's very similar in some aspects, I feel it has an added layer of fat that's missing from plain Slack and its one man vision of what a distro should be.

YMMV and all that, but IMHO Slackware is a Goldilocks distro. It maximizes learning without the pain of being overly onerous.

<comment><USER5> Thank you for the post and the comments. I am a new Arch user (having used it for about 6 months now), and while I am happy with it, your comments are making me want to try other bare distros like Slackware or Linux From Scratch.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> i wish i am brave enough to use slackware, the idea of a rudimentary package manager seems plausible

with ubuntu, there is too much majic, i dont run a server, but for example i dont think anyone should install Postgresql sql on running production server by running

        sudo apt-get install postgresql

slackware i believe would force more discipline, i wonder how reasonably large companies run/admin their servers (do they apt-get everything)

that would definitely be a nice book to read, someone should write it

<comment><USER7> What's wrong with apt-getting things?

It seems the most sensible way to install software, since it will automatically be upgraded with everything else.

<comment><USER8> One-line installers are fine. Automatic upgrades are not.

To use the GP's example of Postgres: I care a whole lot more about my data than anyone at Canonical does. It would be a firing offense to trust that Canonical handles a database software and data upgrade correctly.

<comment><USER9> Which is why Debian doesn't do upgrades-for-the-sake-of-upgrades in Stable. Anything you get there is a security fix, and the notes will tell you if there's an unavoidable functionality or config change.

It's also why you can easily set up your own repo in two stages: one that updates from upstream automatically, so you can test changes, and one that never updates except when you specifically update a package: that's the one that your production runs on.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Pardon a trip down memory lane: Slackware was was my first distro. I spent several days (including a weekend) downloading the minimal bits to run over a 2400baud modem (in 1993?). My wife and kids almost killed me for hogging the telephone :-)

</comment><comment><USER11> Slackware.com is currently overloaded. For more info, try Distrowatch:

<http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=slackware>

<http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=07475>

<comment><USER12> Obviously, this is because PHP doesn't scale.

<comment><USER13> I don't know if you've ever heard about a site called Facebook.

<comment><USER14> Which translates PHP to C++ code via HipHop compiler.

<comment><USER15> So, I guess they found a way to scale PHP then, didn't they?

<Insert obligatory comment about how all code is translated to something else before execution>

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I just looked. Slackware still ships with UUCP. Quaint.

I wonder who's still using that in some deep dark corner of their infrastructure.

</comment><comment><USER12> It looks like we 404'd the page.

</comment><comment><USER17> Go Slackware!</comment>


Show HN: Arengu - Sign-up forms made easy - <AUTHOR> https://www.arengu.com <comment><AUTHOR> Hello, this is Jacobo, cofounder @ Arengu.

We are launching Arengu to help you easily build and optimize your sign-up process without dealing with complex integrations or wasting valuable development resources.

We are still in public beta and improving our platform before we our final release, so I would really appreciate any kind of feedback or if you have any interesting use case where we can help you with Arengu.

I am available if you guys have further questions, want to know more information or just want to say hi.

Thank you very much!</comment>


Ask HN: How do you manage fake signups on products with free plans/trials - <AUTHOR>

<comment><USER2> When taking on a new user requires little to no support: Ignore them. Let people sign up and disappear, it's just extra rows in a database.

When taking on a new user requires expensive onboarding: Require a credit card at signup (do a $0/$1 authorization) that you'll only charge after the trial.

<comment><USER3> Please don't do that: [http://sixteenventures.com/one-dollar- trial](http://sixteenventures.com/one-dollar-trial)

Basically, if you have many "fake signups": 1/ you're attracting the wrong crowd. Fix your acquisition. 2/ these people are not "fake signups" but need more convincing to buy. Fix your onboarding/User Experience.

If you require a credit card at signup, you're turning away a good part of customers away who, at this point in time, don't know or trust you enough to give you payment details.

<comment><USER2> I've run both types of signup flows and less friction doesn't always mean better results when you need real customer commitment for them to realize the value of your product/service (i.e. spend time doing integration, either in terms of dev work or business processes). A credit card indicates more serious buy-in (they've gotten payment approval already) and they're more mentally invested in giving the product a real try before the end of the trial. And, as I said before, if you have an expensive onboarding process, taking on more customers than you can handle onboarding just means you lose them when you can't properly serve them. Better to have fewer highly satisfied customers per day/week/month than lots of trials that never end up paying.

You can't boil everything down to a rule that applies to all businesses. Taking a credit card doesn't mean there's a forced continuity scam happening as that post seems to imply. You can make cancellation a one-click process, and send reminders before the trial ends (and should do so either way -- a good series of lifecycle e-mails are critical to converting trials). Lots of companies with pretty pristine reputations offer free trials that require a card, from Netflix to Amazon.</comment></comment></comment>


Mobile VoIP: Client side call quality - <AUTHOR> http://www.whispersystems.org/blog/client-side-audio-quality/

<comment><USER2> Impressive! Low-level/low-latency audio on Android has been extra hassle for a long time: <https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=3434>

I understand and respect the reasons for using GPLv3 but it's still a bit of a bummer every time I see it locking functionality like this away from wide- spread use. My very limited perception is that it comes down to protecting the secret sauce; I can't immediately think of any compelling reason to segment reusable parts of this particular app for 'closer-to-free-as-in-beer' status.

The FSF has a page documenting their recommendations for choice of license here: <http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-recommendations.html>

<comment><AUTHOR> It's simple to me: anyone who wishes to take our work and also openly contribute their work are free to do so. Those that don't wish to also openly contribute their work need to contact the copyright holder.

<comment><USER2> I agree that the license accomplishes your intended purpose in a very straightforward manner, and I do not pretend to have even the slightest footing from which to suggest otherwise (or that you should change it).

I was only sharing my selfish desire to see the utility classes you've created to make Android's AudioMixer API usable for your app become more widely available - some of the functionality you've implemented should have always been supported at the operating system level. As I'm sure you're well aware, licenses like the LGPL attempt to push the balance slightly towards more widespread usability while ensuring any additional contributions return upstream.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Great stuff, thanks Moxie. Any chance you could release WhisperCore/WhisperMonitor (even as a paid app) so non-Apple devices would also have the option of a usable firewall?

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks. WhisperMonitor is on the roadmap!

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> This is awesome. If anyone from whisper sees this, please get ahold of me off site. I've been trying to say hello but haven't found much in the way of contact info :/.

<comment><AUTHOR> Hey, I'm moxie at whispersystems.org

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Nice website design.</comment>


Why Apple will buy Twitter - <AUTHOR> http://www.alexmuir.com/2011/08/why-apple-will-buy-twitter/

<comment><USER2> I think if it was going to happen it would have happened by now -- the problem is that at the end of the day Steve Jobs believes in professional content over user generated content. So either you're the Beatles or looking to share photos of the kids with your grandparents. The Hulu deal would have made much better sense since it's more top down than say a YouTube. Also you get the feeling that they really enjoy building great products from scratch and hate legacy. So my bet is that you'll see Microsoft buy the company or even a Yahoo! rather than Apple.

</comment><comment><USER3> This article should probably be titled: "I really, really wish Apple would buy Twitter!".

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm not sure I do wish it. I don't use Twitter and am no fan of it. I do hold shares in Apple but I suspect a Twitter acquisition would reduce their value if anything (at least in the short term).

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> These arguments boil down to fun reasons Apple should spend money to lose money, possibly long into the future, with no business upside. Dodgeball, MySpace and Orkut are all great warnings about companies that don't already "get" social from buying their way in.

<comment><AUTHOR> I agree, but at the same time I think if anyone could buy Twitter and keep the key people around and happy, it's got to be Apple. I'm not entirely convinced of my own argument, but my intuition says that Twitter needs some sort of plan, and Apple need some social elements. They've tried doing it themselves and failed.

Twitter is lossmaking because all it's selling is adverts that don't really work. Apple are selling products and if Twitter helps them to sell more products or lock customers in, then it may cease to be lossmaking.

<comment><USER5> That's like saying 'it would be great if Santa were our principal'. I'm sure the people at Twitter would love it, but Santa is far better off employing industrious elves in foreign lands.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Does not seems like a good fit for me. Apple is probably rethink its social networking strategy after Ping fails. Twitter API from within iOS is just more like a testbed. It has some form of messaging in FaceTime and the upcoming iMessage. It has a successful GameCentre social networking platform. We probably will see some social networking feature in iCloud v2 but I'm guessing it will serve a purpose such as for iTunes (Ping) or for games (GameCentre). Maybe for mobile payment purpose? Apple has the foundation for a commercial social networking platform as there is a large percentage of Apple ID that is tied to credit cards. We probably will see some hints of what to come at WWDC 2012.

Commercialisation is one reason why Google+ wants you to use real name. And I believe whatever Apple build, it will not be just Facebook like but rather have hints of social networking here and there.

</comment><comment><USER5> My favorite reason is "Apple could provide the missing revenue that Twitter needs." Synergy!

</comment><comment><USER7> Apple is in the business of selling hardware. How does owning Twitter make it easier to sell hardware?

Besides, their foray into the ad business (iAds) was a miserable failure.

</comment><comment><USER8> The points listed in that post are all perks if apple would actually buy twitter, but it doesn't explain why would apple want to buy twitter in the first place.</comment>


Ask HN: Questions to ask a Hiring Startup - <AUTHOR>

I'm going to interview for a startup next week for the first time. I'm currently employed by a Fortune 500 company and i've never worked for a startup before.<p>I've been told that it's acceptable to ask about their burn rate (assuming they get no more $ how long will they stay in buisness if they don't turn a profit), is this an acceptable question? Are there any other questions you would ask? <comment><USER2> Yes, it's acceptable to ask questions about their finances, although the term "burn rate" is usually associated with a period of time, e.g. $x per month, we have y dollars in the bank (and maybe) z dollars pledged if we reach the next milestone by such and so date.

If they consider it to be unreasonable to tell you how long they're going to be able to keep you employed go elsewhere. I've can't remember _ever_ having a problem asking this question (e.g. not joining a startup that I in retrospect wished I had) or ever being lied to, although we can be sure others have had the latter problem.

Other important things:

Try to make sure they can fire people. The only thing worse than a bad hire at a startup is when the leaders don't have what it takes to remedy it. It's hard, it requires the ability to be at least a little bit cruel, but it often is utterly fatal if they can't do it.

Assuming you're a programmer, make sure they give you a test to see if your peers who have also been or will be hired though this process can code their way out of a paper bag. See above, plus you just don't want to be working in a shop with too wide a variation in programming ability or at least too many lows. I suspect I don't have to tell you the latter given your current background but I note it's much less affordable in a startup. So are lies. The one time I knew ahead of time that my boss was a liar and I went to work for them anyway (was very desperate due to a cold cubicle that was making me sick) I _really_ regretted it.

Do the Joel Test: <http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000043.html>

Nowadays, I'd make sure they have a grasp of Customer Development (search this site for that) and otherwise look like they have a clue WRT to business. That tells you unambiguously why stealth startups are generally to be avoided. Looking back on most of my career I sure wish I'd known of its concepts and it certainly explains the failures of many of the failed startups I've worked for.

</comment><comment><USER3> Here were some of my thoughts on it from a couple years ago...

[http://www.innovationontherun.com/considering-working- for-a-...](http://www.innovationontherun.com/considering-working-for-a- startup-34-questions-to-ask-before-signing-up/)

</comment><comment><USER4> Ask to view their business plan (and then learn how to interpret them if you need to). If they don't have one, they probably don't have a set path for making money in a set amount of time. They might just be hoping for a buyout.</comment>


Google's New Polite Notification UX Signals a Change for Product Teams - <AUTHOR> https://www.trychameleon.com/blog/notification-ux <comment><USER2> Wrote this to help product teams learn from how Google changed the UI for seeking notifications. There are already good articles on how to do this for mobile apps, but similar best practices need to be applied on the web for pop- ups / modals / product tours etc. which are typically invasive and not helpful.. which gives them a reputation for being annoying.. but it doesn't have to be that way!</comment>


Volkswagen engineer pleads guilty to criminal charges in emissions cheating case - <AUTHOR> http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/09/news/companies/volkswagen-engineer-emissions-scandal-guilty-plea/index.html <comment><USER2> Really, the engineer is the fall guy. Yes he's at fault but what kind of QA system does a billion dollar car company have that one person carried on a sham for decades. No way he was alone! Top management needs to be grilled on what really happened. At the very least the VP of the division that manged the emission controls for the company needs to be charged with some felony.

I bet that If he would have said something early on I bet he would have been called a hero. Now he's a felon.

This is a real learning moment for us techies. If you see something illegal, report it to the proper authorities and run don't walk out of the company. Companies will find a scapegoat to blame. "Hey you seem like a good choice as any," be ready for it.</comment>


Show HN: A conformant WebGL implementation for Node.js - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/stackgl/headless-gl <comment><USER2> It would be cool if you could talk to the graphics driver and other IO devices directly from NodeJS. I guess it would require a layer for cross platform standardization. But would be awesome if you could make a Graphics engine in NodeJS that just worked everywhere.

I've tried some of the graphics packages for nodeJS but failed at installing their dependencies. I want something that just works or installable via NPM.

</comment><comment><USER3> It is a little buggy for production use at the moment. A bunch of basic things are broken, but we are working on fixing those issues in the near term:

[https://github.com/stackgl/headless- gl/issues/62](https://github.com/stackgl/headless-gl/issues/62)

BTW pretty sure OP is mikolalysenko, the author of stackgl. :) Heh, great work!

<comment><AUTHOR> Ok, solved this. The validation for this part of the constant blending was a bit too strict [https://www.khronos.org/registry/webgl/specs/1.0/#CONSTANT_C...](https://www.khronos.org/registry/webgl/specs/1.0/#CONSTANT_COLOR_BLEND) .

Somehow the conformance suite didn't catch this problem (go figure).

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Does this mean we can basically render any WebGL code server side and effectively stream the output?

<comment><AUTHOR> You could, but it would be slow, or at least pretty heavy per client. That said if you have a beefy enough server I suppose it might work.

<comment><USER5> I don't really understand what's going on here.

Is there a practical use for this? When would rendering, server side, ever be beneficial (assuming that's what's going on here)?

<comment><AUTHOR> Lots of places. For example:

* You want to generate preview images of WebGL content, such as in a gallery

* You are using WebGL to accelerate some computation in nodejs with a library like [https://github.com/waylonflinn/weblas](https://github.com/waylonflinn/weblas)

* You want to test your WebGL code using continuous integration

etc.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Funny they mention a project called "node-webgl" being an opengl wrapper. Seems like they should have traded project names, since "headless-gl" sounds like an OpenGL thing and "node-webgl" sounds like a WebGL thing, while they're both the opposite! :)

<comment><AUTHOR> Guess which one got there first and took the webgl name on npm? :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> This looks cool. Are there any demos we could try in our browser?

</comment><comment><USER8> Is there chance to run threejs on it?</comment>


A/B testing experiment on a homeless - <AUTHOR> http://dailyconversions.com/all-posts/always-split-test/

<comment><USER2> This was on the front page yesterday: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1227279></comment>


Ask HN: What would happen if we did away with the patent system? - <AUTHOR>

To me at least there seems to be a general feeling of unhappiness about the current state of the patent system. I got to wondering what would happen if the patent system was completely abolished and thought it would be interesting to hear some other people's thoughts! <comment><USER2> Everyone would abuse it. The bigger companies have more resources and would do more of it. Economies of scale would come into it. R&D departments would change from finding new things, to cheapening/improving ideas of another company. After a few decades of less new ideas coming in, we'd start to notice the lack of innovation in what we buy (it would be in the headlines in a year). Trade secrets, commercial espionage, it wouldn't be pretty.

<comment><USER3> Not really. I recall Elon Musk saying in an interview that SpaceX doesn't patent anything. The really innovative R&D is not easy to copy.

<comment><USER4> That only works because no one else has access to SpaceX rockets to reverse engineer how its built and how it works.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Do you mean patents in general or just software patents?

</comment><comment><USER6> A lot more competition, which means it will get a little harder for individual companies to compete, but it would be a lot better for the consumer. Competition is ultimately copying with a twist. That's how you get an "industry" or a market. All products in a market are 90 percent the same, because they _are_ copying each other in order to compete. If each product was 100 percent unique, they wouldn't be in the same market anymore. They'd be in their own very different markets, because they would be very different products.

Think of the laptop market, or even the smartphone market. Isn't 90 percent of the technology in them essentially the same? Now imagine if every single piece of technology was radically different. They would be unrecognizable from each other, therefore completely different types of products.

So that's why competition is essentially copying with a twist. If patents, which are state-endorsed monopolies for certain specific technologies, were gone, this competition would increase.</comment>


How many species of dinosaurs did really exist - <AUTHOR> http://youtu.be/xYbMXzBwpIo

<comment><AUTHOR> Details on Dragon King of Hogwarts from the video:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dracorex></comment>


Add Reactions to Pull Requests, Issues, and Comments - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/blog/2119-add-reactions-to-pull-requests-issues-and-comments <comment><USER2> -1 or the thumbs down reaction, I think is a mistake. They aren't usually that constructive, because most of the time they are used as retaliation against a specific user, instead of constructive criticism. If someone downvotes you, you tend to downvote them. At the least, it should be a privilege to down vote, like SO and HN do. [http://stackoverflow.com/help/privileges/vote-down](http://stackoverflow.com/help/privileges/vote-down)

<comment><USER3> Agreed 100% for Facebook or even Hacker News, however on GitHub it would be really useful for voting.

If you ask "Should we add this feature?", it's hard to understand what favorites mean if you don't have an anchor. Does 10 thumbs-up mean unanimous support, or is it just a small minority? It'd be nice to say "Oh, 10 upvotes... but there's 90 downvotes, so we won't do it."

FB and Hacker News are a marketplace of relatively-inconsequential ideas and thoughts. However, changes discussed on GitHub Issues can potentially have an impact on your company and livelihood.

<comment><USER4> Internally when voting (informally) on things we do +1, +0, -0, and -1. Super helpful to be able to ask for everyone's opinion while they can also express the strength of their opinion.

Feel like that would be very useful

<comment><USER5> +0 and -0 are equal..

<comment><USER6> I believe the implied meaning is:

+0 -> support from the sidelines (like for a change that doesn't directly affect you)/something that's not urgent but would be nice

-0 -> disagree from the sidelines/disagree with the solution but can't think of a better one

<comment><USER7> I would enjoy it if they used +ε and -ε for that, although +0 and -0 is probably clearer.

<comment><USER4> like that idea! Dunno how many people have epsilon easily accessible on their keyboards though.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> A missing feature here is sorting issues by public support. An example is FontAwesome, which explicitly asks users to leave a +1 comment on issues they support. You can then get a pretty good idea of the most desired features by sorting the issues by most commented.

[https://github.com/FortAwesome/Font- Awesome/blob/master/CONT...](https://github.com/FortAwesome/Font- Awesome/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md#requesting-new-icons)

[https://github.com/FortAwesome/Font- Awesome/issues?q=is%3Ais...](https://github.com/FortAwesome/Font- Awesome/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+sort%3Acomments-desc)

Would also be nice to see these reactions on the issue list so you can get a feel for the issues at a glance without digging deep into each one.

<comment><USER9> Agreed -- this is the first thing I looked for. My guess is that this feature is probably next on their TODO list. There's not much point in sorting by +1s before there are many +1s accumulated, anyways.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Looks like Dear GitHub[1] is having a rather quick impact on the product; first templates[2], now this:

[1] [https://github.com/dear-github/dear-github](https://github.com/dear- github/dear-github)

[2] [https://github.com/blog/2111-issue-and-pull-request- template...](https://github.com/blog/2111-issue-and-pull-request-templates)

<comment><USER11> Perhaps it follows the Hollywood model. There are lots of features in development, staff-shipped, in discussion, in the backlog, or whatever. Then there is some external stimulus (Facebook launched reactions!) and the feature gets quickly tailored and green-lighted.

So there is a quick reaction, but work on the idea may have been hidden from the public for a long time.

<comment><USER12> Version 3.4.0 of Octicons [0] came out on January 22, 2016. It added "smiley" icon, which was used in this feature today. That's 8 days after the dear github letter. 7 weeks before today.

[0] [https://github.com/github/octicons/releases/tag/v3.4.0](https://github.com/github/octicons/releases/tag/v3.4.0)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> This makes me think Github doesn't get it. Emoji comments are often used because there is no better way to interact with an issue/PR. What we need are better issue management tools. Polls, voting, triage tools, etc. Instead we got an easier way to post emojis. Feels more like a "look we have reactions like slack!!!" gimmick rather than a properly designed response to user requests for features.

</comment><comment><USER14> I wonder if this is too featureful? What is the difference between +1, heart, and hooray? Having just a +1 and -1 is unambiguous and probably covers the vast amount of use cases? Perhaps not, but I'd be very interested to know the reasoning between being choosing between "unambiguous" and expressive.

<comment><USER15> I think I will use them this way:

* '+1' to mean I like this feature or this issue affects me.

* 'heart' to mean I agree with a proposed solution, or pull request.

* 'hooray' when a solution is marked as fixed or a fix version has been posted for the issue.

There are no rules though, so we'll see.

<comment><USER16> Internally at GitHub over the past few weeks I have been using the heart reaction to express appreciation. For example, if someone is very helpful or empathetic I let them know I appreciate it with a heart.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I think it is definitely the end of +1 era, folks! Thanks Github to listen to the community feature requests. You should allow more icons like Slack is doing currently.

</comment><comment><USER18> Can you downvote replies in threads that are locked? Can collaborators delete these reactions like we would with comments?

> Have feedback on this post? Let know on Twitter.

Not everyone uses Twitter. It would be awesome to give feedback using the one account I'm guaranteed to have: a GitHub account. Otherwise I have to ask my question on HN...

</comment><comment><USER19> I think people will still write +1 comments because they won't notice this new feature, at least initially. It'd be nice if Github just converted "+1" comments into reactions.

<comment><USER20> If I reply with :+1: am I responding to the comment above me (in context) or to the original Issue?

(Not that I do :+1: comments, but the above is a scenario where automatically converting wouldn't work.)

<comment><USER19> Good point. Then maybe convert +1 comments into a popup showing reactions to the user.

Or just wait for people to learn the feature over time.

<comment><USER21> The latter option, for sure.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Awesome move by GitHub. ZenHub[1] will be phasing out our +1 button now that it's no longer needed – feels good to focus. We're excited to use this reactions data as part of our reporting suite, please keep the improvements coming!

[1] [https://www.zenhub.io/](https://www.zenhub.io/)

</comment><comment><USER23> Finally. Let's just hope it doesn't email you when someone leave's a +1 reaction.

<comment><USER24> It'd be nice if you could configure this. It doesn't email you, but for some repositories it'd be nice if it did.

It definitely solves the horrible problem of too many +1s everywhere, but there are times when getting those emails are helpful.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> My apologies if i missed a comment, but I'm surprised how few people support "giving it a go" and then deciding if it's good or bad. There's a multitude of user approaches, lots of people very touchy about their way of doing things (some extra so as this relates to their profession) Whilst not wishing to appear a fanboy, clearly Github have put a decent amount of thought into this, they've got a fairly good track record and they're responsive. If it's poor, they'll reassess it.

</comment><comment><USER26> Wow! GitHub is being influenced by GitLab (who released this feature recently in GitLab 8.4).

<comment><USER27> I am not surprised, the GitLab guys are doing a great job.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> Am I missing something or is there still no way to +1 issues? All I see are ways to react to comments. Whenever I feel the urge to "+1" something it's for the issue, not a specific comment. Can someone explain how to add a reaction to an issue?

<comment><USER29> You are missing something :)

e.g., top right corner on [https://github.com/facebook/react/issues/6239](https://github.com/facebook/react/issues/6239)

<comment><USER28> I still only see it for the comment and not the issue itself.

<comment><USER30> This is due to inconsistency from Github on the labeling of the issue text. That issue _has_ no comments - the header shows "lostthetrail opened this issue 7 hours ago · _0 comments_ ". The first "comment" you see is meant to be the original issue text, not a comment.

And yet... the header for that text says "lostthetrail _commented_ 7 hours ago". Github repurposed the commenting system to stand in for the issue text itself. Side effect of a lazy implementation.

tldr; The first "comment" isn't a comment. It's the issue itself, and is where you add your reaction for the issue.

<comment><USER28> That makes a little more since. Pretty lame though. For example, I don't wouldn't want to upvote the top comment here: [https://github.com/rolaveric/karma- systemjs/issues/35](https://github.com/rolaveric/karma-systemjs/issues/35)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> Ah yes, following in the steps of Gitlab which has had this for a while, the thumbs up / down and voting types are useful, everything is a distraction IMO

<comment><USER32> GitLab had emoji on issues/MR's but not emoji's on comments, we're working on that for 8.7 [https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab- ce/issues/3655](https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ce/issues/3655)

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> "So go ahead…:+1: or :tada: to your :heart:s content."

Or please don't. Part of the problem with the +1s is that they add noise. How are reactions going to cut down on the noise? Telling people to go ahead a +1 an issue (increase noise) is the opposite of what the "Dear Github" maintainers want.

Many projects do not use +1 or any other voting scheme to illicit priority from the general public. +1 comments and reactions provide little value. I have seen Github issues where people +1 already closed issues because they do not bother reading.

<comment><USER34> It reduces noise because a reaction is not a reply: it doesn't notify the issue author of a response and takes a lot less space visually, letting discussions about an issue take place without being intermixed with a bunch of :+1:.

Reactions let you know the impact an issue may be having. I suppose it may not be good for every project, but dismissing it as "providing little value" seems a bit too much considering it was among the most often asked features by maintainers...

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> Getting dangerously close to that Facebook patent[1]...

[1] [http://www.freepatentsonline.com/8918339.html](http://www.freepatentsonline.com/8918339.html)

</comment><comment><USER36> I like the idea of adding more expressiveness, pictorially capturing sometimes fleeting moments of emotion or accurately representing an emotional state that can occur.

These are the following reactions:

      1. +1
      2. -1
      3. smile
      4. thinking_face
      5. heart
      6. tada

Do they capture the necessary expressiveness for the context? Facebook's reactions cover more emotions, but FB is trying to support reaction to anything that can be posted.

<comment><USER37> Considering that it's Github, how about things relevant to software engineering, like: agree, disagree, support, insightful, obsolete, misleading. I can't imagine it being helpful to know that someone felt "heart" about an issue comment.

<comment><USER38> Heart is probably a supersized +1 for pull requests and a nod to Aaron Peterson.

<comment><USER39> who is aaron peterson? Googling that name results in a photographer,a lawyer and a bunch of doctors.

<comment><USER40> Perhaps he meant Aaron Patterson ([https://github.com/tenderlove](https://github.com/tenderlove)) "tenderlove"? Not sure.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> This is a welcome addition. I've run into bugs in projects before and wanted to "+1" a thread, but it always felt like spamming the maintainers.

It'd be cool if they added a way to search through your list of reactions. This would allow you to effectively comment on an issue in an OS project, while simultaneously bookmarking it, so that you can go back and commit a fix when you have a free moment.

<comment><USER42> In that scenario, I just subscribe to the issue, so at least I get notified if something changes. But of course there is no way to list the issues you're subscribing to.

</comment></comment><comment><USER43> April 1st is not there yet. I get the idea, but seriously, emojis...

<comment><USER44> Yeah I panicked and checked my calendar

</comment></comment><comment><USER45> I assume this is inspired by gitlab's similar feature?

</comment><comment><USER46> Why is the thumbs up a white hand, and thumbs down is a yellow hand?!

<comment><USER47> They are both yellow for me on Fedora 22, one is just a flipped version of the other

</comment></comment><comment><USER48> First* Slack, then Facebook, and now GitHub. Looks like reactions are replacing (or expanding on..) the unary like/upvote/heart expression for tech products.

*Or at least the first time I've seen them used as an important feature.

<comment><USER49> I think Path was the first to do this: [https://path.com/](https://path.com/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER50> The implementation feels a bit rushed. Here are my suggestions:

\- Don't allow a user to rate his own posts.

\- Don't allow a user to issue contradicting votes like +1 and -1 at the same time.

\- Use image emoji like everywhere else on the site for compatibilty.

</comment><comment><USER51> Um. What does :+1: mean when applied to an issue? "I like this bug"?!

<comment><USER40> It's supposed to mean: "I agree" or "I have this bug too" or "Yes, this should be implemented"

</comment></comment><comment><USER52> I'd keep downvotes, but lose the emoji.

</comment><comment><USER53> Emojis are terrible, but they're better than "+1".

</comment><comment><USER54> Is there a way to sort by "reactions"? Otherwise I think this feature is useless.. I would have preferred having more detailed issues rather than ugly Emojis.

</comment><comment><USER55> While I applaud finally adding the vote up (and even vote down) features, this feature look a bit overdesigned.

I don't really get how I should "love" an issue, or "this issue makes me happy". Or the relevance of a "thinking face". The ui would be simpler with only 1 or 2 icons.

At least there's no "this issue makes me sad/angry" buttons.

<comment><USER56> "Facebook does this way, so we do it this way."

</comment></comment><comment><USER57> Well, I guess this at least sorta solves the "+1" issues.

</comment><comment><USER58> Speaking about new features -- what I'd like to see is the ability to remove items from my public profile / activities list. Often I make mistakes. Often I do stuff I don't want the public to see, and I'd rather not have to email GitHub support asking them to remove them manually all the time.

</comment><comment><USER59> Well, I think a voting pool is more practical than manually counting upvote/downvote of every comment. I don't know how often the maintainers will come back and see how an issue is going and see which comments are popular. Also, sorting comments is not fun because of duplicated contents.

</comment><comment><USER60> The great thing about adding emoji Reactions to all our social media posts is that now AIs can finally learn human emotion. I'm sure Google is already training theirs on how different keywords make people feel.

</comment><comment><USER61> Stoked about this feature! Can't wait until these are available in the API!

</comment><comment><USER62> My emojis look weird and not in keeping with the style of emojis elsewhere on the site [http://imgur.com/rB9BdEr](http://imgur.com/rB9BdEr)

</comment><comment><USER63> +1

</comment><comment><USER64> Could they convert the exiting "+1" comments into reaction?

<comment><USER65> How would they know which comment to attribute them to?

<comment><USER66> Something like

        ^\s*(:\+1:|\+\d+)\s*\!*\s*$

Even something as simple as this would clean up most of threads like these: [https://github.com/elastic/kibana/issues/1084](https://github.com/elastic/kibana/issues/1084)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER67> I don't think these necessarily cover all of the responses that can be made, but I think it is a great start to getting simple feedback like this. Like other users mentioned, it would be awesome to be able to sort or perform some kind of action based on the quantify of the reactions.

I wonder if they will allow for repository owners to select which reactions they will allow? I think that would help with the limited selection but still allow owners to select what they consider useful to them.

</comment><comment><USER68> Interesting cultural bias. Why are people not questioning unsubstantiated up- votes, but feel down-voters shouldn't be let of the hook without a full argumentation?

<comment><USER69> Upvote is already backed by the arguments the upvoted post contains. Downvote is not backed by those arguments. They are not symmetrical at all and there is no bias.

<comment><USER68> That is only true if the upvoted post contained an argumentation and not just a statement or an observation.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER70> That's cool. But what I'd really like is the ability to star comments so I can revisit them later.

<comment><USER71> As a substitute, you can click on a comment's timestamp and then bookmark the current URL, which will be a permalink to that comment.

</comment></comment><comment><USER72> It'd be nice if they added a little warning whenever submitting a comment that was only a '+1' or '-1' otherwise the discoverability is gonna take a while, maybe? Also a option to convert those comments into reactions for repository owners.

</comment><comment><USER73> Awesome! Just a niptick, I think the reaction action should be near where the interface is. So either change the icon to make a reaction to bottom left, or change where it's shown to the right (where milestone, tags, etc are).

This way you get better feedback.

</comment><comment><USER74> Ironically, you can't respond with a :reaction: to their "reactions" post.

</comment><comment><USER75> I find the idea of adding social responses to github distasteful. It's my own opinion.

That said, it'd be interesting to see a breakdown by age and background in terms of supporting or not supporting this addition.

</comment><comment><USER76> How about a stop (hand palm) [1] instead of -1?

[1] [http://emojipedia.org/raised-hand/](http://emojipedia.org/raised-hand/)

</comment><comment><USER77> A step in the right direction, nice!

One thing I don't like is that you're able to add multiple reactions to the same item, it sends mixed signals.

</comment><comment><USER78> -1 or thumbs down reaction should be avoided.

</comment><comment><USER79> Kinda makes you wish you could :+1: the blog post.

</comment><comment><USER80> Funny how I wanted to +1 this blog post =)

</comment><comment><USER81> also, it would be good to convert any comment or message with just +1 as reactions.

cleans up the existing issue threads.

</comment><comment><USER64> End of "+1" era?

</comment><comment><USER82> Nice to see them moving quickly on some major OSS community requests.

</comment><comment><USER83> I can just imagine this being abused by less socially aware on the autism spectrum disorder, I definitely think it's wrong and toxic to add mechanisms which support non constructive criticisms or praise that leads to emoticon circle jerks.

</comment><comment><USER84> GitHub: social coding

</comment><comment><USER85> The best way to +1 an issue is with a pull request.

</comment><comment><USER86> Wow, Eric Elliott (@_ericelliott) just asked for this on twitter - and now it happened. He must be a witch.</comment>


Ask HN: Please review RoboNOC, phone calls for server alarms - <AUTHOR> http://www.RoboNOC.com/

<comment><USER2> Your copy and design need a little work.

One big block of text is hard to read, try breaking it up into bullet points or something similar. The actual text needs work as well; you could pay 40 bucks to hire a copywriter

The blue highlights don't work, hard for eyes to follow.

Put a subtitle below your logo that explains _exactly_ what you are doing. Something like: Dead Simple Server Monitoring

Your FAQ needs formatting, but I'm guessing you are iterating as we speak

The bit about you being in the EU is not needed, unless it's there for legal reasons.

Instead of putting the text explaining you use paypal, just use a paypal icon as well as credit card icons

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks a lot for this feedback. All very good points. Since everything is still very non-final (see points on pricing etc.) the copy isn't as polished as it should be.

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> I've turned off the Paypal integration, so you can try the service without having a Paypal account or giving them any CC information. Just sign up for the service and it'll automatically be set as paid up. Please don't abuse :)

</comment><comment><USER3> Immediate reaction: Hey, cool, I've been looking for something like this.

5 seconds later: $29/month? No way I'm paying that much for a service I hope to never need.

2 minutes later: Hmm, only email? I'd like something more reliable than email for a monitoring system.

I'd like to see this service changed by:

1\. Replacing the monthly fee with a per-call fee. I'd happily pay $5 to get a phone call if my server died. (But ideally there should be some way to test that the system is working without paying $5 per test.)

2\. Adding different ways to have phone calls trigerred. Ideally I'd like to seen an HTTP POST gateway -- that way I could write monitoring scripts which can make sure that the message reaches RoboNOC.

Edit:

Also, 3. If you don't have this already, have a "press 1 to acknowledge this message" at the end of a phone call, and have some mechanism for retrying calls.

<comment><AUTHOR> Hey, thanks for your feedback :)

Per-call accounts are definitely something to be added. The biggest issue holding that back is getting a payment gateway set up to be able to do ad-hoc debits.

Look for a HTTP POST gateway soon - the thing about email is that it plugs right into all existing monitoring systems and apps, so there is no need for any changes apart from adding a new alert recipient. Edit: also, we hope that our email setup is as reliable as can be. Of course you also need to trust your outbound server.

3\. Yup - we're also looking into adding escalation routes based on this information.

<comment><USER3> Have you considered using a prepaid system, i.e., have people "buy 5 phone calls" which sit in their accounts until they are used? Tarsnap uses a prepaid billing model and it is working very well.

 _also, we hope that our email setup is as reliable as can be. Of course you also need to trust your outbound server._

Right, and it's more the outbound server that I'm concerned about. After all, even if email delivery _usually_ works, the one time when it is most likely to not work is when there's a network problem to report.

<comment><AUTHOR> Prepaid might work, it is how most external monitoring providers sell their SMS credits. The thing about prepaid though is that the one time something big happens, you've probably ignored the "Please top up" emails all month.

If you're having network problems then a HTTP interface probably won't make much of a difference, though :) To help here you usually have an account with a third party such as Pingdom, JustUptime, etc.

<comment><USER3> Well, I'm thinking more of transient network issues -- the sort of things which could result in email sitting in a queue for hours, but wouldn't stop a script which loops "send HTTP POST to server; read response; if we didn't get a 200 OK, try again".

<comment><AUTHOR> Oh, OK :) Well that is definitely something to add. Please check back tomorrow, or if you'd like me to drop you an email, just send to martin at staff.robonoc.com - Thanks.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I tried it, and the robot called my phone. It came from a +46 number. Sweden? nice.

The robot voice was very hard to understand though. You really should record the voice yourself or get a friend to do it. Also, I needed to press 1 to activate, but to deactivate I must call support? huh? Why can't I just press 2?

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the feedback. The voice is the synthetic voice which actually does the live calls as well, so if you think that's hard to understand then we need to get that fixed.

The authorization message could be clearer, though. It's asking you to press 1 to authorize. What it's supposed to communicate after that is that if you have no idea what RoboNOC is, i.e. if a customer has entered an incorrect phone number to authorize, then you should contact support so that we can take a look at the account. We're assuming here that if you click the "call me now" button you want to authorize the phone number if it goes through.

Caller ID varies between which VoIP server picks up the authorization call. We're trying to get them standardized but there are a few hoops to go through when trying to get downstream providers to accept caller IDs with numbers they don't control.

Thank you again!

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> This isn't hard to do for free, with open source speech synthesizers and a modem.

That's well out of the reach of the general public, but presumably folks who run their own servers and monitoring systems have the technical acumen required to implement your service themselves if it sounds useful.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for your reply. Yes, of course this is possible to do yourself, as is almost anything these days. This is geared towards those who don't feel like setting up their own redundant infrastructure offsite just to make phone calls :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> I like the name, and the robot :-)

Not a bad service either, but I too think you should offer it on a per-call basis. That way there is very little reason not to buy it.

      /Ragnar

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks Ragnar :) There seems to be consensus that per-call is the way to go, going to work on this soon.

<comment><USER7> This is awesome. I was going to build something myself with ribbit.

Think over the pay-per-call idea very carefully. On one hand it feels good to _potential_ customers, but if they are in a real emergency, knowing that each of those little robo calls costs them 1 euro or whatever will start to grate.

Also, pay-per-call diverges the incentives. They are essentially making a bet with you. The better their uptime (good for them), the less revenue you get (bad for you). It's dangerous to build in a divergence like that if you want repeat business. You might want to charge a yearly fee plus a small charge per call.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks! :) There are a few API-type options like Ribbit available for those who like to tinker and we actually considered using one of them first for RoboNOC. However the value-add we're trying to provide is both ease of use but also redundancy and security, and so we built our own infrastructure to not be reliable on any one third party.

You have a very good point on the pay-per-call. Going to pay-per-call will of course drastically change the revenue models and forecast, but is of course (or at least looks like) a better proposition for new customers. Combining per-call fees with a yearly charge might be the best of two worlds but will also need careful work to communicate effectively and not complicate things.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


New class of painkiller found in a mud sample - <AUTHOR> https://imb.uq.edu.au/article/2019/10/new-class-painkiller-found-mud <comment><USER2> As someone in constant severe pain, I hope that this new drug is as potent and harmless as they hypothesize.

I often read about new and wondrous painkillers, and never hear about them again after that initial flurry of journalistic over excitement. They disappear in much the same way as the various cures for cancer that have been hyped over the years.

I desperately hope that one of these wonder-painkillers will make it to market within my lifetime.

<comment><USER3> As someone overly familiar with cancer, my hopes could be higher, this will inevitably turn out to be only applicable in a small number of cases a decade and a half from now

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> It mentions not having the typical side effects of opiates like addiction, respiratory depression, tolerance, etc.

I'm curious, though, if it induces euphoria like opiates do.

<comment><USER5> They actually didn't even say that. It's pure speculation, as is common in science journalism. It makes the article sound more exciting to the reader.

<comment><USER4> The direct quote from the main paper author seems to say that indirectly: _" if this proves successful and leads to a new medication, it will significantly reduce the risk of death by overdose from opioid medications such as codeine."_

<comment><USER6> That's because it theoretically has less side effects of the repository system — the fatal part of an opioid overdose.

<comment><USER7> Right, they simply say "it has the opposite bias" for additional reactions, but we have no idea what "opposite bias" will result in. The side effects could be seizure and anaphylaxis instead of respiratory depression and addiction.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> So, I'm not an expert, and haven't read the paper linked to in the article yet, but I think this is an opioid that doesn't recruit beta-arrestin?

If so, that's not really a new class of drug - it's still an opioid, albeit one with less side effects. It will still induce euphoria and have abuse potential; perhaps even _more_ abuse potential, as the risk of dying from respiratory depression is much lower.

It's also not the first opioid having this property - mitragynine and 7-OH- mitragynine the main opioid alkaloids in kratom) also don't recruit beta- arrestin.

<comment><USER9> Kratom is not an opioid.

[https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/kratom-fear-worthy- folia...](https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/kratom-fear-worthy-foliage-or- beneficial-botanical-2019080717466)

<comment><USER8> It binds to opioid receptors - it _is_ an opioid.

I realise it's convenient for some kratom supporters to claim otherwise, but I am also a kratom supporter and believe this kind of obvious misinformation harms, rather than furthers the cause.

<comment><USER8> I can't edit my post, but to be clear, kratom itself obviously isn't an opioid, but it _contains_ opioid alkaloids.

<comment><USER10> Yep. But the same is more or less true of many pharmaceutical opioid preparations — they may contain paracetamol, binder, or filler in addition to the active opioid compound (e.g., Vicodin). I think it's fair to call the broad category "opioids."

<comment><USER8> Absolutely, my updated comment was merely a guard against expected pedantry :)

<comment><USER10> Totally reasonable! It seems I was that kind of pedant anyway. I'm sorry. :-)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> when I search for "Bilorphin" or "bilaids" all I can find are a bunch of "news" articles that point back to this site.

<comment><USER4> They coined the term ( _" which we named the bilaids"_), and the paper is pretty recent ([https://www.pnas.org/content/116/44/22353](https://www.pnas.org/content/116/44/22353)), so that seems expected.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> American high school football coaches who told you to "rub some dirt on it" when you were hurt finally vindicated by science.

<comment><USER13> Well... at my old high school the coaches would slip opioids into players bags before games so they could play through pain.

BBC did a documentary on my home town, nearly 8% of my graduating class have died from over doses [https://youtu.be/j7ynJ5S9c58](https://youtu.be/j7ynJ5S9c58)

<comment><USER14> Are the coaches in prison?

<comment><USER13> I wish.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> The saying "happy as a pig in mud" might have a root cause.</comment>


Ask HN: What tool do you use for Kanban? - <AUTHOR>

I'm shopping for one and being able to use Github issues  and having swimlanes is a must.<p>What are you using at work? <comment><USER2> Kanbanize. I also looked at LeanKit Kanban before. It seems to be almost similar, maybe a bit better, but a bit more expensive for our team. Not sure what you mean with Github issues, I don't think Kanbanize has Github connection but there is an api so you should be able to build one if you need it.

</comment><comment><USER3> Rally

[https://www.rallydev.com/platform-products/rally- editions](https://www.rallydev.com/platform-products/rally-editions)

<comment><USER4> I'm personally not a fan of rally - I've seen it in some larger environments and it really was a bit of a pig that felt like it was there to serve project managers and not the users. it tried to do too much and the UX was quite poor, buttons everywhere etc... A bit like jira.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> JIRA. It has a learning curve but I've found it to be extremely flexible. We use it for sprints as well.

</comment><comment><USER6> Trello. Its flexible, powerful, and easy to integrate with other apps you use via Zapier and more (disclosure: I work on the Zapier team). I use that with OmniFocus' email drop to keep my todo list and due Trello cards synced, for instance.

</comment><comment> java-man This one is single user:

[http://goryachev.com/products/taskmaster/index.html](http://goryachev.com/products/taskmaster/index.html)

</comment><comment><USER7> Use waffle.io to visualize Github issues.

</comment><comment><USER8> Trello is best</comment>