We've Raised $60M in New Funding - <AUTHOR> https://patreonhq.com/new-round-funding-816d5a592477 <comment><USER2> Previous discussion: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15254069](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15254069)

</comment><comment><USER3> For those wondering why Patreon went for more funding even though they should make about $7.5 million this year from the 5% fee they charge: They are growing faster than their current cash flow can handle and need to increase their staff beyond the 70+ they already employ. They are still a "young startup" where they can get this sort of funding where a standard growing business would get a loan.

<comment><USER4> This still doesn't strike me as a very satisfying answer. "growing faster than their current clash flow can handle" can also be phrased as "they are spending too much money". Big investments always raise big expectations, and can ruin a perfectly fine business (model). Why are they spending more than they earn ? At this valuation, it seems like they are going to need a unicorn exit at some point. How are they planning to do that ?

<comment><USER5> Business loans are granted all the time on the basis that a company demonstrating profit or a plan to reach profitability (this scenario is more constrained) should theoretically be able to pay the loans back.

Investment rounds are similar in this way but tend to address the "plan to reach profitability" or "plan to exit" scenarios more directly than a loan might. Patreon's making money, but Patreon needs to stay ahead of current and potential competitors, continue to expand, and continue to grow their positive cash flow. Sure they could keep going without raising investments, but if they run the risk of being disrupted by competing implementations of the same business model (a very real risk), it'd be stupid not to raise money to accelerate their growth.

<comment><USER6> A good software service company does not need to raise so much money to accelerate their growth. Raising more money won't prevent them from being disrupted by a competing implementation. We can argue their action can invite competition from more nimble operations who can take less money from creators. Look up DistroKid, they compete with companies much larger, with far more funding, yet DistroKid is doing very well as a business.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Could someone explain why Patreon needs to raise funding? I thought a service built with the express concept of collecting money (and a very popular service at that) wouldn't need external funding.

Also, in an unrelated point,

> I had been making YouTube videos with my band, Pomplamoose

Finally! I thought I was crazy for thinking it was the same guy. If you haven't listened to his band, you definitely should.

<comment><USER8> > Could someone explain why Patreon needs to raise funding? I thought a > service built with the express concept of collecting money (and a very > popular service at that) wouldn't need external funding.

I don't know the details of Patreon, but profitable companies raise money all the time. Patreon is presumably a startup, and has growth in mind. It is likely that they want to grow faster than their current cash flow would allow - in fact, they may need to do this in order to survive in the long term. A more in-depth description of this from pg: [http://www.paulgraham.com/growth.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/growth.html)

<comment><USER9> "It is likely that they want to grow faster than their current cash flow would allow - in fact, they may need to do this in order to survive in the long term."

Do they really, though?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I like the patreon model, as it's let me support various creators whose content I like (Webcomics/Websites/Musicians) without having to endure web ads.

I get what this post is saying about wanting to add new features, but I can't help but be a little apprehensive about what taking this amount of external funding means for Patreon's future.

It doesn't strike me as a business that's likely to experience "hockey stick" growth, so there's a worry that they'll need to extract more money from existing creators to show the return on investment that their external investors are likely to seek...

<comment><USER11> Right. How many features do they need to add? Kickstarter raised a few million dollars and has grown organically, and fairly rapidly, since. Who is the natural acquirer for Patreon? Is it a likely IPO candidate? It's cheap criticism to say that it would be an easy extension for Kickstarter to offer this kind of funding model, but it really would. The cultural barriers that usually keep companies from moving into adjacent areas are non-existant. Both companies serve the same "Creative Class" customer with nearly identical positioning. I'm long Kickstarter, moderately short Patreon.

<comment><USER12> I support my favorite musicians on Patreon and usually get gadgets on Kickstarter although I admit I supported the occassional video game or novels. But Patreon is about continous delivery while Kickstarter is about one big bang, delivery is on the several months-1/2 years scale while Patreon doesn't work well if you don't deliver a thing every month preferably more than one. Seems like a completely different thing.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Should've just set up a Patreon page for Patreon.

<comment><USER14> That's how Gratipay does it:

[https://gratipay.com/Gratipay/](https://gratipay.com/Gratipay/)

But they're only getting enough to pay for like, 1/10th of a developer...

<comment><USER15> Also, Bountysource:

[https://salt.bountysource.com/teams/bountysource](https://salt.bountysource.com/teams/bountysource)

What amuses me is how software projects prefer Patreon instead of Bounstysource

<comment><USER16> Really? I've not yet seen any software projects on patreon.

<comment><USER3> [https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/5omtvg/patreons_to_s...](https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/5omtvg/patreons_to_support_open_source_projects_please/)

<comment><USER16> Oh wow. That's a surprisingly long list. As someone who actively backs multiple people on patreon, I'm surprised that I didn't see this before now.

<comment><USER15> Also, [https://www.patreon.com/mastodon](https://www.patreon.com/mastodon)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> _And there are dozens of you making over $30k per month!!_

Is there any way of browsing these creators? How many creators make money at the rate of $40k per year? Also, is there a typical curve that earnings follow over time?

<comment><USER18> The biggest earners are, to the best of my knowledge, mostly adult artists. Not porn stars, but artists who create erotic artwork, often for 'niche' communities. I imagine Patreon does not want to shout too loudly about that sort of thing, but I am extremely glad they are there making the world a better place. Our culture can never be made 'advertiser friendly' overall and its disgusting to see the degree of puritanical prudishness on display at most tech companies. They are stultifying human culture and actively preventing actual humans to be the ones determining what constitutes our culture. Patreon works directly against that, and for that they are angels.

If they ever move to boot adult creators, that will be the day Patreon dies. If they ever get bought by Google or some other tech titan, it will be that day instead.

<comment><USER17> A plurality is marked NSFW, not a majority. Also, the population of creators that make $40k per year or more is about 350.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> I haven't paid much attention to how they run as a business but I am a happy consumer, I get 2 excellent podcasts from Patreon at a price I am happy to pay. Hope they stay in business.

</comment><comment><USER18> I love Patreon but am scared for them. As more and more YouTube creators find it untenable to survive on revenue from YouTube (which is something YouTube wants to happen, IMO) and they turn to Patreon... that puts Google in a difficult position, serving basically as the free-cost video host for those creators who likely won't bother putting ads on those videos either.

And if Google makes a big to buy Patreon, I REALLY hope Patreon would refuse it no matter how large it would be, but I can't imagine anyone walking away from 'never have to work again' money. Google buying Patreon would cause me to wear black and mourn for at least a month. They would move aggressively to remove all creators who do anything not deemed 'advertiser-friendly' (really anything that wasn't mainstream in the early 2000s when Google came about, which is where Schmidt wishes to petrify human culture) and then progressively move to make it less and less possible for people to make a living doing things which members of the public wished to support. Such a model does not lend itself to what Schmidt sees as the proper structuring of society, with centralization of wealth into a ruling minority class establishing the 'pillars' of society, any widespread movement looks to people of his perspective like rats chewing through those pillars. He made a smart move publishing his book where he puts forward the idea that Google should use its position and power to actively 'guide' human culture for the good of the peons not as wise as he. If he'd published it online, people would read it.

<comment><USER20> Unfortunately I fear that Google has become too big for the whole world and will slurp up everything that can be a competition, just like they slurped up youtube too at one point in time. And we all know that money moves people, so there is that - github, patreon, twitch. Google has things to buy.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> I wish they'd take Craigslist's path - simple, small, and providing amazing value.

</comment><comment><USER20> Pretty nice success story.

Unfortunately money changes the way how companies work - and often not to the better.

</comment><comment><USER22> it's sad that content creators have to beg for money or litter their stuff with ads :/

<comment><USER23> I wish I could get my head around this, I'm an artist and people tell me my work is good and I do sell some, but I can't bring myself to go on to Patreon because I feel like it's begging (although weirdly I only apply this to myself, I don't think badly of other people that do it... but then I don't look down on people who beg anyway, I grok St. Francis of Assisi so I'm not sure what all of this means). Meanwhile I've moved into a caravan and often have trouble affording to eat (luckily I'm still a bit fat haha).

<comment><USER24> I highly encourage you to get on something like patreon!

I support a number of artists on patreon, and I don't think of it as giving a handout or see them as begging - I'm paying them for the content that I consume, and I'm paying them to give them incentive (edit: and means) to continue producing that content. Sure, there's no formal contract, but I consider it a form of "work for pay" all the same.</comment></comment></comment>


TPM Under DDOS Attack - <AUTHOR> http://tpmmedia.tumblr.com/post/10015719855/tpm-hacked-after-posting-alleged-anonymous-mugshots

<comment><USER2> Reminds me of this classic XKCD

<http://xkcd.com/932/>

<comment><AUTHOR> Bingo</comment></comment>


Build an AirBnB Clone in a Day - <AUTHOR> https://blog.stackmob.com/2013/03/build-an-airbnb-clone-in-a-day/ <comment><USER2> In the conclusion, you say:

> _What's next? Well you can extend your app by adding payment options, email > notifications, user feedback. . ._

Aren't those core features of AirBnB? That's like saying _"Next, you build the entire application."_ So you really haven't built a clone at all, you've just built an empty shell with a tiny fraction of the functionality.

<comment><USER3> Wow, seeing this at the top of this thread really makes me feel HN is jumping the proverbial shark.

The entire post is not a "Hey, fuck BnB, we can do it in 2 hours!". It's about how you can quickly iterate an application using StackMob.

It's a tech demo, showing off StackMob, not putting down BnB.

Christ. :/

<comment><USER4> why did you use the word "iterate"[1] in this context?

[1]<http://www.thefreedictionary.com/iterate>

<comment><USER3> Google it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> If only you could attribute your images properly. I can't find an attribution or mention of PlaceIt or Breezi anywhere.

Example screenshot used in blog post: <http://placeit.breezi.com/productshots/40>

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for catching that. We'll update the post with an attribution.

<comment><USER5> Thanks! Haha, the only reason I recognized it so quickly is because I use their tool so often.

It's really awesome and deserves a mentioned wherever used.

<comment><AUTHOR> Absolutely. I was wondering how our guest author had created those cool screenshots. Attribution added!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> If only we could build the airbnb user base up in a day as well.

<comment><USER7> I (and most here) can clone most sites, but can't create a business.

<comment><USER8> What the post is trying to achieve is to show people how easy it is to get the technology up and running. Especially with the tools available today.

The tech shouldn't hold you back. But of course, if you build it, they won't come. The marketing is another ball game entirely

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> It never fails to amaze how so many tech folk are such pedants. For all of you who are whining about this not being a real clone for any number of reasons you are well and truly stuck in the trees. You've failed to notice that this is a demo of the StackMob API which is more than a common Hello World, Blog engine or ToDo list. There is a lot of great stuff here and the OP makes a great case for StackMob. Grow up.

<comment><USER10> Why not title it, "How to use StackMob," or something like that?

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I don't think you can call this a 'clone'. It's at most a proof of concept. I can build a POC of Airbnb in Rails in an hour. It doesn't mean I should build an Airbnb clone in Rails.

<comment><USER12> Please do so and write up a post about doing it with a link here on HN. It would give your comment more credibility.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> I'm sure StackMob is a great product and time saver, but the title is incredibly misleading. I guess everyone does it these days to get the page hits.

"I timed it and it took about 16 hours over the course of three days to get this app up and running."

Lol. That's hardly one day then and as people have said it's not close to being a clone.

</comment><comment><USER14> Also there is a free template worth $69 included: <http://www.appdesignvault.com/stackmob-gift/>

</comment><comment><USER15> Mandatory [http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2009/07/code-its- trivial.ht...](http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2009/07/code-its-trivial.html)</comment>


A State of Xen – Chaos Monkey and Cassandra - <AUTHOR> http://techblog.netflix.com/2014/10/a-state-of-xen-chaos-monkey-cassandra.html <comment><USER2> Is there a blog where they post about what happened during _actual_ downtime ? Like the one on last September 21th ?

</comment><comment><USER3> _By trading away C (Consistency), we've made a conscious decision to design our applications with eventual consistency in mind_

How does one go about writing a user-facing application with eventual consistency?

<comment><USER4> It depends on the application. For Netflix, transient glitches like having outdated play history or catalog entries that take a while to propagate aren't hugely detrimental -- the core value of serving the videos that users request doesn't depend at all on having a consistent view of quickly-changing user data.

For more complex applications (think Facebook), there are useful consistency models other than strong consistency, with causal consistency being one of the most promising: [http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2610533](http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2610533)

<comment><USER5> Do you know whether the linked article is what Facebook is currently using, or a proposal? Facebook is an example of a webapp that fairly often has user- visible weird behavior, like "read" notifications becoming unread again. But I'm not sure if those are glitches, or a result of their consistency model.

<comment><USER6> Facebook wrote Cassandra for such scenarios.

[https://m.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=24413138919](https://m.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=24413138919)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Are any of these anti-chaos tools open source or shared with the community? Would love to see more companies that I'm dependent on have this sort of testing and robustness...

<comment><USER8> Chaos Monkey (and related software) is open source: [https://github.com/Netflix/SimianArmy/wiki](https://github.com/Netflix/SimianArmy/wiki)

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> 2700+ Cassandra nodes! Anyone know how big Facebook's Cassandra is?

<comment><USER10> AFAIK, Facebook no longer uses Cassandra, but apparently Apple has 75,000+ Cassandra nodes.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> hm.

from: [http://xenbits.xen.org/xsa/advisory-108.html](http://xenbits.xen.org/xsa/advisory-108.html)

MITIGATION </comment><comment>====

Running only PV guests will avoid this vulnerability.

Did amazon reboot all of it's VMs? or just the HVM VMs? why was neflix running on HVM VMs?

<comment><USER12> Amazon rebooted lots of PV guests. Presumably they collocate HVM and PV guests on the same box. If there were any HVM guests on the box, then there could be the possibility of an attack. (I guess they could forcibly kick off the HVM guests, but that wouldn't be very nice.)

Why shouldn't Netflix be running on HVM?

<comment><USER11> >Why shouldn't Netflix be running on HVM?

HVM, at least in the past, had a bunch more code that the guest DomU interacts with vs. fully pv guests. This has security implications.

Now, my knowledge of HVM is a few years... or more like half a decade out of date, for example, I don't even know how to force a HVM guest to only use PV drivers (which would solve 90% of the problem.) and i know that more and more of this has moved into hardware, so it's possible that what was true five years ago is not true now, but... yeah, I don't let untrusted users on HVM guests for the same reason I don't let untrusted users use pygrub or load untrusted kernels directly.

<comment><USER13> Most people agree HVM is the way to go on EC2:

[http://www.brendangregg.com/blog/2014-05-07/what-color-is- yo...](http://www.brendangregg.com/blog/2014-05-07/what-color-is-your- xen.html)

Forcing an HVM guest to use only PV drivers sounds like PVH, which is coming in Xen 4.4:

[https://blog.xenproject.org/2014/01/31/linux-3-14-and- pvh/](https://blog.xenproject.org/2014/01/31/linux-3-14-and-pvh/)

<comment><USER14> HVM guests at Amazon will default to using PV drivers for IO and networking. (Unless using SRIOV/"Enhanced Networking", which will not use the PV drivers)

PVH is actually PV on top of an HVM container and is a bit different. You can think of it as PV sitting on top of enough HVM bits to take advantage of the hardware extensions Intel and AMD have invested so heavily in while still being majority PV. This gives you the best of both worlds, including the remaining PV performance benefits related to interrupts and timers that PV drivers on HVM can't utilize.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I'd love to see Netflix let the chaos monkey loose on their PostgreSQL servers.

</comment><comment><USER16> I wonder if their chaos system causes network partitions as well as node failures.

<comment><USER17> The total toolkit they have is called the Simian Army -- [https://github.com/Netflix/SimianArmy](https://github.com/Netflix/SimianArmy)

They wrote a blog post about it here: [http://techblog.netflix.com/2011/07/netflix-simian- army.html](http://techblog.netflix.com/2011/07/netflix-simian-army.html)

I don't think they have one that introduces network partitions, but inside a datacenter, network partitions are rare.

<comment><USER18> > ...but inside a datacenter, network partitions are rare

It's ... complicated.

[http://aphyr.com/posts/288-the-network-is- reliable](http://aphyr.com/posts/288-the-network-is-reliable)

<comment><USER17> Yeah, there was an excellent ACM article with him, and Bailis. I think if the network starts to partition, or fail in a datacenter, that's time to evacuate the datacenter / AZ. If a handful of machines fail, they should disengage. If more than say, 5% of the machines in the DC are having reachability issues at any given point (in a modern DC that's like ~2000 machines), it's time to shut it down.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Megaupload Founder Goes From Arrest to Cult Hero - <AUTHOR> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/04/technology/megaupload-founder-goes-from-arrest-to-cult-hero.html?_r=1&hp

<comment><USER2> Be aware that <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Schmitz> is missing the bits about how he ran some piracy and carding BBSs back in the days and then tried to sneak his way out of trouble by telling the law all about the users. I would not be surprised if Megaupload kept logs of everything for this purpose as well.

<comment><USER3> That's very interesting. Do you have any sources to back this up?

<comment><USER2> It is common knowledge in the german hacker scene. See the german wikipedia article for references and further links.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> This article fails to mention that the FBI has illegally copied and extradited out of NZ jurisdiction the vast amount of data gained in the illegal raid on his home.

<comment><USER5> This is what amazes me. For a civil case another country has just run all over another country's laws.

<comment><USER6> It's a criminal case actually; commercial copyright infringement is criminal in the US (non-commercial is civil).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> To me, he went from being a "victim that is also a douchebag" when he seems to be doomed to "antihero" as soon he's started winning.

That being said, I don't have any problem with the services that megaupload is providing even if it tremendously anger copyright holders.

<comment><USER8> I agree. Personally, the man seems like an ass of the highest caliber but I don't feel the service he provided warranted a raid. A great example of misuse of power and questionable priorities.

<comment><USER9> His personality might be a bit "problematic", but eccentric entrepreneurs have always been around, from Howard Hughes to Larry Ellison in his best better days.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Does the punishment match the crime?

Not all countries have the same penal system for copyright infringement. This of course does not favor the US. Where is ACTA when we need it? ;)

Even under US law, criminal copyright infringement only carries a maximum of 5 years. Legal experts correct me if I'm wrong. Can we assume that's not 5 years per item?

Now, assuming that's true, what if he does not get the max penalty? A couple of years is not too severe. Why not just sue him for damages? He has assets. He can pay. It makes a lot more sense. The answer is likely because they are trying to send a message. Why do they need to send a message? Isn't getting sued for millions enough of a message?

Let the readers answer that one.

So, what can we do if a sentence of a few years is not scary enough? We can allege a "conspiracy". A "mega conspiracy". Then we can accuse him of racketeering. And the sentence can be much longer.

The whole thing is just a little over the top.

They should have just sued him, taken his assets and left him a broke hacker.

Instead they want to brand him a serious criminal. Not just a petty one. People are not buying it. What they see is overzealousness. The punishment does not match the crime. So he becomes a hero.

Interesting.

</comment><comment><USER11> This is what scared me from the article.

"Two helicopters and 76 heavily armed officers to arrest a man alleged of copyright crimes — think about that," he wrote. "Hollywood is importing their movie scripts into the real world and sends armed forces to protect their outdated business model."

What were they thinking when they sent such a large force ?

<comment><USER12> >What were they thinking when they sent such a large force ?

Take it up with New Zealand. Though you can hardly blame them as Kim is clearly a nutjob.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Can't say I like the company, it's good that a lot of their files are legitimate but they really didn't care about pirated files in the slightest. One of my friends ran a company selling physical software and hired outside help to find and serve DMCA notices to sites hosting cracked full versions of the software. Megaupload generally complied with the notices but every single time the file was taken down it was put up again a few days later (the exact same file with the exact same file size). They could have implemented even a very basic md5 check to stop this from happening but they chose not to because they knew it would bring more profits if they didn't.

</comment><comment><USER14> Given his past and the megaupload business model, you have to fuck up pretty badly to turn Kim into this much of a hero.

If Hollywood had chased a civil case against him, they would have almost certainly won it and shut down his business, which would have then paved the way for them to pursue a criminal investigation (although I am far from convinced that he has done anything explicitly illegal as opposed to merely unlawful).

This way round it looks as though they could lose badly on all counts and make themselves look like malicious and incompetent fools in the process while simultaneously souring US relationships with their political allies.

Perhaps they are just malicious and incompetent fools however. It would certainly seem to be the simplest explanation for the current situation.

<comment><USER15> What he does is probably illegal, according to copyright laws, but is it _that_ immoral?

The problem to me is the amount of physical violence he endured, compared to the amount of physical violence he caused.

It's as if the police would beat down someone who didn't tip a street performer.

<comment><USER14> _What he does is probably illegal, according to copyright laws_

My understanding is that what some of the users were doing was possibly illegal under US law, but probably unlawful most everywhere else, and that what he was doing was possibly unlawful but not illegal pretty much everywhere, including in the US. Knowingly facilitating copyright infringement is a charge that can be leveled at every industry that provides consumer equipment or services that copy or transmit data, from ISP's through to the manufacturers of video recorders.

<comment><USER16> That's too simplistic. Lets take the example of a gun. The gun industry makes a product that can be used for intentional harm or for protection. One company sells a 35mm handgun to the general public and another sells assault rifles to the general public. A reasonable person knows an assault rifle is not for protection (and don't get pedantic and say "well depends where you live", etc. because you know what I mean). That's like what MegaUpload is. Dropbox and Box.net are file locker services. MegaUpload was very obviously a file sharing service - one that was very much all about sharing movies, music, and software with no regard to copyright law. Dropbox and Box.net are the handguns to MegaUpload's assault rifle when you put it into my above example.

<comment><USER17> A 35mm handgun would be hilarious:)

<comment><USER18> I heard about someone back in the 1970s who replaced the barrel of an old .38 Special revolver with a piece of pipe (about an inch-and-a-half or 40 mm) and used .38 blank cartridges to shoot golf balls about a hundred yards.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> He's a hero because he let people warez and they lost their favorite source for warez when his system was shut down.

Everything else -- the FBI fuckups, the legitimate users losing data, and so on -- is a secondary justification for supporting a warez site. Those issues can be opposed on their own without making the warezer-in-chief into a hero.

<comment><USER20> That's certainly an important part, but I think it ignores the natural tendency for considering "the enemy of my enemy, my friend".

He is (not by choice, but still) fighting the US government, particularly in an area where many perceive the latter to be bound by lobbies. That's enough to make him seem like a knight in shiny armor.

Personally, I'd like for both to lose ;)

<comment><USER9> Plus the difference is, that he is putting himself out there and for the first time giving a face to the "fight".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Kim Dotcom for the rest of us.</comment>


FreeBSD is an amazing operating system - <AUTHOR> https://www.unixsheikh.com/articles/freebsd-is-an-amazing-operating-system.html <comment><USER3> Nice to see some love for FreeBSD. My intro to +nix in the mid 90s started with FreeBSD as well. Back then, I used to tag along with my dad in the summer to work occasionally (two working parents, and dad ran/runs a small telecom business). In the supply closet I saw a shelf with boxes lined up that all had a cool-ass little devil on them. Being interested in computers from my fathers influence, I asked him what the 'Devil Software' was in the storage closet, and he explained that it was an operating system like Windows sort-of (which at the time I was already well in to understanding how to re-install =), but that it ran on Voicemail Servers - stuff with specific needs - because it was very 'flexible in configuration', as he put it. He then gave me a voicemail box and the manual, and said he would give me $20 if I could get the 'Devil Software' installed on the machine from a blank HDD. This. was. huge. $20 to a 13 yr old was serious dough. Eventually I was successful (to his surprise? or dismay? haha since he was out 20 bucks). He was proud, and that made me proud, and that started the journey that is still ongoing to this day. Will note, father exploited me for cheap labor throughout my teens as my interest/experience with BSD, and eventually GNU/Linux increased =). Although I am a GNU person these days, FreeBSD is always close to my heart, and helped me understand the +nix ecosystem from an early age.

<comment><USER4> Just out of curiosity, how did your dad exploit you for cheap labor with BSD?

I mean I also did a lot of chores around the house and was the responsible IT repair guy of the house but I thought that's a pretty good deal for being housed, fed and clothed for 20 years.

<comment><USER5> I think it was meant more in a tongue in cheek manner. Obviously his dad gave him IT related tasks over the years, but I think both enjoyed it and I imagine it oftentimes was a learning experience for both of them.

I think generally kids can benefit and grow a lot from being treated and talked to like responsible adults sometimes, and not as if they were useless small people that have to be constantly supervised.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I always struggled with linux, because there's so many of everything. It's too much choice. I don't really have many sysadmin skills and discovering FreeBSD has been a blessing for me. When I have a problem the documentation is... IDK, consistent? It's like I can follow it, and it's useful, same with forums and the helpful community.

I'm so thankful, honestly. I finally can have my VPSs without feeling like I'm dumb or I need to devote so much time and effort to sysadmin skills that I don't have nor I enjoy.

I still use Xubuntu in my laptop and Windows in my desktop, because of the lack of drivers and because they work out of the box (well, almost with Xubuntu), but still, for some reason I really feel confortable with FreeBSD, and this is coming from someone who just wants to spin DBs, sites, and cron scripts, and I don't have enough knowledge to appreciate jails and so many other things that other people likes about FreeBSD.

So guys, thank you.

<comment><USER7> I so much agree. I am using FreeBSD on home server (and few others) trying to push it to the limits. I just love it. It seems like order in all the chaos of operating systems (from windows kernel32 getting com objects to all the chaos in linux, from systemd to docker,...).

Please if you are trying to use freebsd TRY jails (to shorten tldr, use iocage). They are just great :)

And dont go desktop. Just isnt worth it. Not enough people troubling with gfx support. Keep it as it is. Server.

<comment><USER8> There is a variant of FreeBSD with terrific graphics support, and although limited to just one hardware vendor, there's no doubting its popularity: it's in every PlayStation 4.

There's FreeBSD in almost every data centre. But it's at a level most application developers just never see. Many infrastructure elements - <USER2> storage heads, to core routers, to enterprise application and security appliances - have chosen FreeBSD as the high quality, reliable, consistent, and liberally licensed base for their control plane software.

The point being, this is where FreeBSD has the greatest influence and adoption: as a platform, not the product, and not at all obvious even to those that thereby rely upon it.

That being said, yes it works great as the instance OS in EC2 and as a die- hard acolyte since 2.1-RELEASE you'll pry my production application jails from my cold dead hands

<comment><USER9> What about the Nintendo Switch?

<comment><USER10> The Switch doesn't run on FreeBSD but rather a custom microkernel operating system called Horizon, which is an evolution of the OS on the Nintendo 3DS.

Nintendo do use some code from the FreeBSD kernel in the network / sockets stack though - [https://switchbrew.org/wiki/Sockets_services](https://switchbrew.org/wiki/Sockets_services)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Honestly I don't think FreeBSD should focus on desktop story at all. Resources, as limited as they are, should be spent on making FreeBSD an obvious and compelling choice for the servers.

Although FreeBSD looks cleaner and more consistent than Linux, it's not really clear why should one use it over Linux.

I hope the team will define strategic goals and try to develop some competitive advantage, even if it means focusing only on certain niches in the beginning. E.g. encouraging development of the OS modules in a safe language like Rust would probably lead to more stable system less vulnerable to exploits, and make it a more attractive choice for mission-critical deployments.

<comment><USER12> > Honestly I don't think FreeBSD should focus on desktop story at all.

I wish they didn't have to. I wish the open source community would rethink the desktop experience from the ground up so that we can have truly portable desktop environments that speak a common API. Everything is so tightly coupled to the platform and a spaghetti mess of packages and tools that I don't think it can be achieved any way else.

Apple has vertical integration of their OS, so they don't have to worry about supporting the world. But the state of things in open source land right now is a complete disaster. X vs Wayland, compositors? desktop environments? window managers?

For instance, check out the Manjaro doc on switching desktop environments: [https://wiki.manjaro.org/index.php/Install_Desktop_Environme...](https://wiki.manjaro.org/index.php/Install_Desktop_Environments)

Why is this such a nightmare? There is an entire section called "The Risks of Using Multiple DEs".

There are 'two steps' for switching to XFCE:

1\. Install a basic XFCE environment,

        sudo pacman -S xfce4-gtk3 xfce4-goodies xfce4-terminal network-manager-applet xfce4-notifyd-gtk3 xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin-gtk3 tumbler engrampa

2\. Optional: Install and use LightDM, the recommended display manager for XFCE (record comes screeching to a halt -- what is a display manager and why is LightDM recommended?)

        sudo pacman -S lightdm lightdm-gtk-greeter lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings && sudo systemctl enable lightdm.service --force

This is relatively simple when you look at it here, but seeing this x 10 on the linked page where every single experience has a vastly different install and configuration process does not give me warm and fuzzy feelings.

Anyway I got no suggestions on how to improve this -- rant over. I just wish that we'd settle on a really rock solid abstraction and then get back to work rethinking and rebuilding UIs in Linux/BSD. Without vertical integration and/or monetary incentives I do not see this ever happening.

<comment><USER13> You're inflicting this upon yourself by using Manjaro. Installing a different DE on Ubuntu is either a _Xubuntu-desktop_ metapackage, or a _tasksel_ menu- item, away.

> _X vs Wayland, compositors? desktop environments? window managers?_

Nothing on this list, besides desktop environments, are things the user ever has to think about, unless they go out of their way to.

<comment><USER14> > Nothing on this list, besides desktop environments, are things the user ever > has to think about, unless they go out of their way to.

It seems you haven't tried to use Ubuntu as a desktop, especially not outside of command line. I didn't care about anything on the list but had to make decisions often because, from my point of view, the GUI applications providing basic functionality just didn't work. The answer was many times "it's because it's Wayland" or compositor or whatever. Horrible experience, when I've used (just an example) gpart for years, it worked, then install a new version of Ubuntu and it doesn't. Then I investigate why, because Wayland. And I really never wanted to care about Wayland and compositor. Then I want to record a screen interaction. Should be easy. Again... doesn't work, investigate... "it's because it doesn't on the new compositor whatever"... Etc.

I suspect that those who develop GUI on Linux don't use themselves what they produce, as a lot of GUI is often unusable, or, even worse, was usable once and then completely degrades, even with newer... compositors, or even some other kind of "improvement."

<comment><USER15> 1) There's no Ubuntu LTS release with Wayland as default display server.

2) Gparted doesn't work, because it wants to run as root. You should use an application, that runs only minimal, necessary parts as root, and the UI runs with your user's capabilities.

3) Wayland compositors do not provide unrestricted access to to composed display for very good reasons. They do provide an access through controlled API. That controlled API didn't stabilize into unified one among different compositors yet, so for screen recording you have to use compositor-specific utility for now. In Gnome-Wayland/Ubuntu, you have one available by default.

So yes, when you clean up the capabilities over time, the old stuff will break. But without breaking it, you cannot develop your system. Apple also breaks compatibility will old apps, even more than most Linux distros.

<comment><USER16> And yet I can still often run GUI programs written in 1995 on Windows 10 without recompilation. Hell, I can usually run GUI programs written for Windows in 1995 _on Linux_ without recompilation. Don't pretend that compatibility is some kind of impossible dream.

<comment><USER15> > And yet I can still often run GUI programs written in 1995 on Windows 10 > without recompilation.

Did you try it? Often, you cannot run even programs built in 2009 on Windows 10.

> Well, I can usually run GUI programs written for Windows in 1995 on Linux > without recompilation.

You can run 1995 Linux binaries in Linux, provided a) you have the libraries they were linked against, b) they don't use direct hardware access ala svgalib c) they are not in a.out format, which was recently removed, due to nobody using it anymore.

<comment><USER16> > Did you try it? Often, you cannot run even programs built in 2009 on Windows > 10.

Yeah, I actually do it all the time. There are some programs that don't work, particularly games, but for the most part it works fine.

> You can run 1995 Linux binaries in Linux, provided a) you have the libraries > they were linked against

Including glibc, and take care to jump through the appropriate hoops to ensure the linker can find them because chances are they aren't in your repo.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> This article makes several misstatements or factual errors, unfortunately.

> What I failed to realize back then was that FreeBSD was (and it still is) > designed as a complete multi-purpose operating system meant to be setup and > tuned according to specific use cases.

IMO, if it needs to be manually tuned, that's a bug, not a feature. (And I'm speaking as a FreeBSD developer on that.)

> FreeBSD sets the kernel and the base system apart from third party packages. > This is unique to FreeBSD and none of the other BSDs do that.

Um, nope, this is how all of the BSDs do it.

> FreeBSD is installed only with the features you enable and nothing is > running that you don't know about.

sendmail, cron, and ntpd run out of the box, to name a few.

> The FreeBSD code is meticulously maintained and very well documented.

Not really (especially in random drivers) and usually not (in the code, anyway). We have pretty decent manual pages.

> The FreeBSD rc system that reads this file understands dependencies between > services and it can automatically launch them in parallel, or wait until one > is finished before starting the things that it needs.

The parallelism part is not true.

> I believe it is important to understand that FreeBSD is not like a GNU/Linux > distribution.

Not really true? In a lot of ways FreeBSD _is_ like a GNU/Linux distribution; it just happens to bundle the equivalent of coreutils, binutils, gcc, etc with the kernel.

> FreeBSD is an operating system made by developers who are also system > administrators.

Definitely not true (or at least, in no respect different than the developers of the broader Linux ecosystem).

> A Linux distribution is a collection of tools written by different groups of > people, often with conflicting interests and priorities.

This is true! Especially for core bits of the system, like glibc and the kernel.

> A Linux distribution needs ..., additional third party software, the X > Window System, a window manager, and a desktop environment, and it then > needs to combine these different components into the resulting distribution.

This is of course no different than FreeBSD's ports system; we face the same integration challenges as Linux distributions.

> there are no conflicting interests in the [FreeBSD] project

Ha. ha. ha.

<comment><USER18> As a FreeBSD developer, perhaps you know what tunables are being talked about for specific use cases?

Unrelated, I find it surprising that any major operating system these days need rebooting because "every third day or so otherwise the performance degraded a lot". Or maybe they just didn't increase the sysctl var kern.full_performance_days high enough ;)

<comment><USER19> I've been running Fedora for ~10 years (switching _away_ from {Net,Free}BSD, I was fed-up to re-invent the wheel and the general poor design of the OS / high inertia of the community), and never rebooted once for "performance reason". My average uptime is in the couple of month, always for hardware / maintenance reason. Even my Windows 10 machines is never rebooted because of performance issue.

I don't think I've had much system failure / panics either.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> FreeBSD was the first Unix I ever worked on professionally.

I agree, it's amazing, and I love admining it.

The only reason reddit wasn't on BSD was because of lack of package support and then when we moved to AWS, lack of BSD support in AWS. Although that's since been fixed, thanks in large part to CPercival, creator of TarSnap, yay!

The way it is set up just makes so much more sense to me, and tweaking the kernel is just so much easier.

Also the focus on stability over supporting the latest technologies is a big plus for business servers.

</comment><comment><USER21> One of the neat things about working at Yahoo! when I did (which was when it still had the "!" as part of the branding) was knowing that we had a small number of FreeBSD core maintainers on the payroll, and that those folks could get hardware if they needed it for the FreeBSD project. Not to provide infrastructure to the project, but to give those core maintainers hardware to use and to add support for. We just provided them with the things they needed, _almost_ no questions asked.

Those people didn't answer to anyone, they were just paid to work on the OS. Yahoo! made heavy use of FreeBSD at the time (almost 20 years ago, now) so it was decided that since we were using this free software so extensively that it would be good to give back to that community.

I wish this notion that giving a small amount of resources to open source projects that have saved your company millions of dollars per year was more common than it is. I don't know of any large company that does what Yahoo! did back then.

I work for a large company now, and as far as anyone I've asked can tell, we give exactly nothing to any of the hundreds or possibly thousands of open source projects we use daily, and it does not put a good feeling in my stomach.

<comment><USER22> At Netflix, in my larger work group, we have at least 7 FreeBSD committers, and one core team member (and I'm sure I'm forgetting some folks and I'm sorry!). We have employed (on specific contracts) many other committers and core team members.

Unlike Yahoo, we are accountable to Netflix's business goals of increasing our streaming customer's Quality of Experience while still maintaining or reducing the cost to deliver content. Frequently those goals align nicely with FreeBSD's goals, and we have contributed a great deal (async sendfile, kTLS, unmapped mbufs, epoch stabilization, NUMA work, RACK TCP, BBR TCP, TCP pacing, and tons of stuff I'm forgetting).

<comment><USER23> > At Netflix, in my larger work group, we have at least 7 FreeBSD committers

Oh that's good to hear. Reading Brendan Gregg's blog [1] I got the impression that Netflix had switched to Linux.

1\. [http://www.brendangregg.com/](http://www.brendangregg.com/)

<comment><USER24> Netflix has used Linux in EC2 for their C&C infrastructure and FreeBSD on their OCA content serving appliances since the beginning.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I would probably daily drive FreeBSD or OpenBSD if the desktop situation was better. I don't know how people survive open-source desktop environments.

I've spent the last couple of weeks trying to build a reasonable HiDPI desktop environment on a variety of open source platforms and nothing has the level of fit and finish I am looking for. So far I have been happiest with Elementary OS and their treatments to Gnome... but it preturbs me that getting a new rig setup is so fickle and unrepeatable. You can spend hours tweaking shit and experimenting with no reasonable way to save your changes to be applied later to a clean install or even a different platform. I wish I could check my entire configuration into git.

Would love if the hackers here would share their FreeBSD (or any Nix) desktop environment configuration (including window manager etc...)

<comment><USER25> I use FreeBSD when developing non-mobile work (which is mostly java backends + JavaScript react).

My environment is

\- Hyper-V on windows laptop

\- FreeBSD 12.1 as guest (zfs)

\- FreeBSD packages I use for devel (installed simply with its standard 'pkg add') are: InteliJC, vscode, openjdk11, postgres12-server, node12, tmux

\- Desktop env is: xrdp (to allow remote desktop into the VM), wmaker (window manager and wmakerconf to config it), qterminal or lilyterm

So I just use Remote Desktop from windows host, into FreeBSD VM using XRDP and just run like that.

I connect using 24 or 32 bit depth (via RDP protocol) and tend to run Darkish/pastel colors themes in Visual Code and IntelliJ.

\---

I know this is not an ideal setup, but lack of support for mobile dev (android at least) prevents me from using FreeBSD directly on hardware...

When Running on native hardware, without VM, I tend to use Pop! Linux because of how beautiful it looks, on HiDPI or regular screens, and it is relatively easy for me to use, as somehow that window manager setup does not get in my way

I also usually install emacs 27 or 28, but those require a binary package download from

[https://freebsd.pkgs.org/12/freebsd-ports- latest-i386/ghub-e...](https://freebsd.pkgs.org/12/freebsd-ports- latest-i386/ghub-emacs28-3.2.0_3.txz.html)

Use Emacs rarely these days, because of its lackluster support for JavaScript+Flow tooling.

I would much rather use Emacs for everything.. but right now I just use it to write status reports (org mode)…

<comment><USER25> Sorry, forgot to add the ever useful vermaden FreeBSD Desktop Series blog, to answer the previous question

[https://vermaden.wordpress.com/freebsd- desktop/](https://vermaden.wordpress.com/freebsd-desktop/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> My experience with FreeBSD started more than 20 years ago when I built my first home file server, managing a whopping 200G of storage (huge for the time).

Since then I built several more generations of file server, all running FreeBSD and all absolutely rock solid. They all typically had a 3-5 year service life, with uptimes of 1-2 years at a time. Each of them were only replaced for capacity reasons, with the previous generation server typically serving as a backup target for the next one.

Around 2002, broadcast and cable TV was still a thing, and rudimentary PVRs were becoming available but were pricey with few features. So I decided to build my own.

I started with Linux, thinking that it would provide better hardware compatibility, but stability issues soon drove me back to FreeBSD, and I managed to create a very complete FreeBSD based PVR solution, complete with remote control, automatic program scheduling, multiple simultaneous recording and viewing streams, auto DVD ripping and very intuitive remote (web) and onscreen user interfaces. That thing ran rock solid for 10 years, until replaced by Netflix.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that I fully agree with the author. FreeBSD is in a different league than many other operating systems in terms of capability and stability, while being surprisingly compatible with a lot of hardware.

<comment><USER27> Me too, built BSD/MySQL server from scratch following the on-line documentation and everything just worked. Server is still running after 5 years with two outages for power problems. I think I chose FreeBSD at the time for the ZFS file system which was its big selling point over linux.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> I installed FreeBSD on my machine about a year ago, and went so far as to buy a copy of Absolute FreeBSD (3rd ed) by Michael Lucas. Much as I admire the FreeBSD ethos, I always end up coming back to Fedora for a very simple reason: the desktop experience on the BSD's has always been painful for me. First, FreeBSD didn't have the driver for my iGPU (Coffeelake), though Linux had support at least six months prior. FreeBSD devs to their credit were very helpful and welcoming when I tried troubleshooting my graphics situation, even writing a small patch for me. Then, when I installed the patched version of the driver and got video output, I had to be careful to maintain the patch. One time I accidentally upgraded all packages, overwriting the patched file and undoing the video support. Eventually I got fed up and just installed Fedora, which always works perfectly, runs like butter, and looks great. I get that the FreeBSD project is much smaller than GNU/Linux, and hardware vendors like Intel and Nvidia are not nearly as supportive in terms of contributing code/checking compatibility. I want to run FreeBSD, I really do. But at the end of the day I just don't have enough hours in the week to be troubleshooting my desktop, I'd rather spend those hours being productive (or being unproductive in a manner of my choosing). It's a great project - with a bit more love for newbies and the desktop experience I think FreeBSD could really shine. One option I think FreeBSD should consider is to offer separate server and workstation editions of each release, like Fedora does. This would help bring resources/attention to the desktop situation and provide an on-ramp for new users who want to try out FreeBSD without diving headfirst into config files and device drivers.

<comment><USER29> I wonder if it would make sense for FreeBSD to switch to Linux as the kernel.

<comment><USER30> A large part of FreeBSD is the kernel, and another large part is userland tools that support the kernel.

FreeBSD on the Linux kernel would be a lot of work and at the end of the day, I'm not quite sure Linux needs a BSD licensed ifconfig, etc?

If FreeBSD wanted to use Linux video drivers, that _could_ be useful, but there would need to be a stable interface between the kernel and the driver, and that interface would need to make sense for FreeBSD. Stable kernel apis is an anti-goal for Linux, so that's a non-starter; I wonder if Windows drivers could be more amenable, ala NDISWrapper; but that would also be a lot of effort, and if there were effort for FreeBSD video work, I'd imagine the intel drivers would get ported faster.

<comment><USER31> Linux needs an ifconfig with the BSD command-line syntax and output style, that can handle IPv6 stuff, but that already exists now.

* [https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/504084/5132](https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/504084/5132)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> My experience with FreeBSD mirrors the author's quite a bit.

I bought that same book, installed it on a system, struggled like hell and went through it cover to cover. It was my "daily driver" for probably 5-6 years after that. The experience got me a job at an ISP running FreeBSD and later I started a web hosting business with FreeBSD backing.

I love it and love how easy and simple it is, but I too had to stray into Linux because that's where the crowd went. Hardware and software availability are key factors. I also think they should drop the focus on Desktop and go towards servers.

I've never administered servers that were as painless as those old BSD boxes. There is so much value in things that "just work" and documentation that's accurate. Yes there's a learning curve but it pays off exponentially.

Linux is being plagued by too many choices and too much change. RTFM doesn't do you a lot of good when it's out of date. It's only my decades of experience that help me figure things out when problems arise, I'd hate to be a beginner with Linux now. While Linux on the server is pretty tame the desktop world is out of control. I would like to see the FreeBSD folks just focus on making it the server/container host of choice.

</comment><comment><USER33> I been daily driving FreeBSD for the last 3 or 4 years. I was frustrated by a lot of things in Linux at the time, no this wasn't just because of systemd. I don't actually mind systemd on my desktop.

Everything was very easy much like Debian maybe to get going. There's over 10,000 ports most are in package form at any time. Sometimes the build process fails and a package goes away for a short time, but you can always install it via ports.

My biggest gripe is and always will be the fact I can't use my spotify account on my FreeBSD desktop. I don't see this ever changing though. What I have done is gone back to relying on my local music collection a bit more again. I also bluetooth stream spotify from my phone to my receiver, but I'm lazy, hate phones, and don't generally like to do this.

It also has easiest operating system upgrade path out there that I have experienced. Just freebsd-update, reboot, done.

Jails are great, but they need work to be a bit more modern at this point. Docker has kinda showed some type of image repository is a nice feature. I'm not sure we'll see this right away, but BastilleBSD is working on some nice jails based solutions. Based off of FreeBSD, i'm pretty excited to possibly use this in the future.

<comment><USER34> > _There 's over 10,000 ports_ ...

For the record it is currently over 38,000:

* [https://www.freshports.org](https://www.freshports.org)

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> I've been using Linux since the days of hand crafting Modeline entries for an unstable XFree86 running as root, and installed FreeBSD a number of times over the years but never really enjoyed the userspace as much as GNU. I simply preferred the ergonomics of GNU, it's what was more familiar since I was introduced to UNIX via GNU/Linux in my teens.

Having said that however, I absolutely _loved_ the FreeBSD books by Marshall Kirk McKusick. The red hardcover Design and Implementation of FreeBSD book was my go-to bathroom reading for well over a year. I also was lucky enough to attend viewings of VHS recordings from his operating systems class featuring FreeBSD. Those tapes were something like $1k/tape if memory serves, a friend's employer bought the entire set and would host group viewings on weekends. Such great memories from those times, McKusick was humorous and never missed an opportunity to take jabs at emacs while explaining how paging and swap worked, poor little vi being paged out because someone started emacs, etc.

There's a lot to love about FreeBSD, I hope it continues to exist and can attract enough new talent to thrive in the future.

</comment><comment><USER36> To me, FreeBSD represents the OS that gave me a realistic path I could travel to achieve my computing dreams.

I knew that to really achieve my ambitions, I'd need a way to store 50-100TB of data with high resilience and well-managed replication. Until I discovered FreeBSD and ZFS, I simply considered that kind of thing outside the realm of affordability and practicality.

But please know, fellow readers - it is affordable and it is practical. FreeBSD makes it so.

<comment><USER37> What were your ambitions that required such resilient storage if I may ask? Not being snarky or anything, genuinely curious.

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> As a long time fan of Gentoo, I felt very at home on FreeBSD, and quite liked how everything in it worked. I remember my frustration was more around software and hardware issues. In the end, it wasn't Linux; I felt left in the cold if I ever wanted to use something that wasn't made for FreeBSD.

FreeBSD itself was a pleasure and I wish I could use it more. I've not found a linux distribution I've found quite as nice.

</comment><comment><USER39> I've been using FreeBSD as my Unix of choice for desktop PCs, Unix development inside VMs, and for servers since 2004 when a community college CS instructor told me about it and gave me an install disc. I love the documentation that ships with FreeBSD, including the high-quality man pages, the excellent handbook that explains how to perform many administrative tasks, and the collection of historical Unix documents that come from Bell Labs. I am also a fan of the book "The Design and Implementation of the FreeBSD Operating System." I have the second edition of this book and it's one of the most well- written operating systems textbooks available. I also like the quality of the source code.

With that being said, on laptops Linux and macOS are my Unix-based operating systems of choice because of increased hardware support, although on older laptops I do have success with FreeBSD. But if I need a Unix-based operating system for a desktop, a server, or a VM, my first choice is FreeBSD unless the software I need specifically requires Linux.

</comment><comment><USER40> I have been trying Ubuntu for about a year now, taking a break from BSD. This is the longest I have ever used Linux continuously for personal use.

I always work entirely in RAM. Everything is mounted tmpfs. Occasionally I accidentally exceed the amount of RAM I have available. Some file grows too large.

One of the things I always liked about BSD was how well it handled this situation.^1 It had no lasting effect on the operation of the OS. The only things affected were running applications that needed write space. Thus all I had to worry about were the running daemons I use that are continuously writing to logs. The OS would otherwise continue to function.

Whereas when I run out of space in a tmpfs-mounted directory in Ubuntu, I get filesystem errors. I cannot simply remove the excessively large file, and expect to continue to work indefinitely. I get I/O errors. I am eventually forced to reboot. Obviously I am not well-versed on Linux but as far as I can tell so far, this is a known problem.

1\. This was NetBSD but I assume that FreeBSD and OpenBSD would be no different.

<comment><USER41> Hm yeah, i recall NetBSD to be 'unbreakable' in that, and some other ways from personal experiences in the past. __*

Anyways, there _are_ Linux distros who specialize in this use case, and have sane and proven defaults tuned for that. Sometimes they seem a little bit 'ghettoish', but one can remove anything which is unnecessary, add needed stuff, even remaster in RAM and then rewrite that to another boot media. Or being lazy and just using an overlay to the stock image.

[1] [https://antixlinux.com/](https://antixlinux.com/) for instance works very well.

[2] [http://grml.org/](http://grml.org/) is another Debian based one, altough a little bit lagging behind nowadays.

But many others also. [3] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_distributions_th...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_distributions_that_run_from_RAM)

Ubuntu is not a good starting point for that use case.

* Like carefully unplugging the SCSI controller from the running system, while it had no other available mass storage, watching the console being flooded with messages akin to 'Arrgh! I'm dying! Where is my...?', carefully reinserting the controller into the PCI-slot without causing shorts, console turning back to normal. And switching back to the running X as if nothing had happened. (And no file system damage in spite of having soft updates on UFS active, and running tasks with many open files)

Amazing.

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> One "make world" and your world is changed.

Not to mention the absence of systemd and its overly-complex solution to non- problems.

FBSD-er since '98.

<comment><USER43> Hopefully you making a joke with `make world` because it's deprecated way of doing it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER44> Anyone here using FreeBSD for JavaScript/Node/PHP dev? Curious if there are any common tools that don't work or any unexpected gotchas. I currently am using Ubuntu, but would be curious to give FreeBSD a try. I used to run it about a decade ago and always liked it.

<comment><USER45> VS Code can be installed via ports [https://www.freshports.org/editors/vscode/](https://www.freshports.org/editors/vscode/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER46> I hope FreeBSD we'll get more love in the future. Just like Postgres vs MySQL.

</comment><comment><USER47> NetFlix CDN HW that they drop at the local ISP level is a FreeBSD box that they have tuned to be able to fill 100G NICs no issue. There you go.

</comment><comment><USER48> How well is it on a Macbook Pro? I just cant run FreeBSD for the same reason I cant be bothered to use Slackware Linux anymore. I love Slackware but too much manual labor when there are plenty of useful UI utilities to achieve more with less. I prefer user oriented KISS not just developer oriented KISS.

<comment><USER49> Isn't Mac based upon freebsd? I've never used freebsd itself, so I'm not sure what the actual difference is besides ux.

<comment><USER50> Not really. The roots of OS X/MacOS are in NeXTSTEP. It uses a Mach microkernel that originated at CMU, as opposed to the FreeBSD kernel (or anything like it, really).

That said, a bunch of FreeBSD userland code and utilities were ported over to make the OS POSIX-ish.

It's probably easiest to think of a Mac as an amalgam of many different influences and operating behaviors, as opposed to a direct descendant of any one particular lineage.

<comment><USER51> The Darwin kernel in OSX has more than userland code taken from FreeBSD. "The kernel of Darwin is XNU, a hybrid kernel which uses OSFMK (Open Software Foundation Mach Kernel) from the OSF, various elements of FreeBSD (including the process model, network stack, and virtual file system)" [0]

[0] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_%28operating_system%29](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_%28operating_system%29)

<comment><USER52> That was more true in the past.

[https://www.amazon.com/Mac-OS-Internals-Approach- paperback/d...](https://www.amazon.com/Mac-OS-Internals-Approach- paperback/dp/0134426541)

[https://www.amazon.com/Mac-OS-iOS-Internals- Apples/dp/111805...](https://www.amazon.com/Mac-OS-iOS-Internals- Apples/dp/1118057651)

<comment><USER53> Could you explain this in more detail? It seems that the network stack, VFS, etc. from BSD are still heavily used?

[https://github.com/apple/darwin- xnu/tree/master/bsd](https://github.com/apple/darwin-xnu/tree/master/bsd)

Also, more recently they imported pf from OpenBSD:

[https://github.com/apple/darwin- xnu/blob/master/bsd/net/pf.c](https://github.com/apple/darwin- xnu/blob/master/bsd/net/pf.c)

Or do you mean that they have recently taken more code from other BSDs than FreeBSD?

<comment><USER52> I mean that they have been moving away into more macOS specific code.

The POSIX network stack for example, is now deprecated, and one must use Network.framework for the more up to date features,

"Introducing Network.framework: A modern alternative to Sockets"

[https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2018/715/](https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2018/715/)

"Optimizing Your App for Today's Internet"

[https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2018/714/](https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2018/714/)

Likewise the long term roadmap introduced in Catalina plans to turn macOS into a micro-kernel, by moving all kernel extensions into userspace drivers.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER54> I remember that book fondly - I'd dabbled with BSD/OS at one company, then at the next gig set up their production servers on a couple of FreeBSD boxes running Apache. The book was a constant companion at my desk. For running servers, FreeBSD was hard to beat back then!

</comment><comment><USER55> A long time ago I toyed with the idea of a kickstarter campaign that would design and build a range of freebsd laptops - they would just work. fixed components and still having all the nice features like a /etc/resolv.conf you can edit

</comment><comment><USER56> If only one of the BSDs had a container runtime, it's the only real showstopper for me

<comment><USER57> Docker was working[0]. But it depends what you want from containers I guess. Layers?

Most of the container use-cases that aren't layers work fine under jails. But it's a more primitive tool, definitely not as user friendly.

[0]: [https://wiki.freebsd.org/Docker](https://wiki.freebsd.org/Docker)

<comment><USER43> Wrong. There were 2 attempts at bringing docker to freebsd: \- Docker tooling on top of jails (what you linked) \- kernel shims in linux-compat (better)

Neither one of them was delivering usable experience.

UnionFS is broken and not recommended to use. ZFS snapshots aren't layers. FreeBSD has loosely coupled tools to make something like docker, but nothing remotely close to full docker is available atm.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER58> FreeBSD is awesome on the server and the ports package manager is amazing but wouldn't recommend it on desktop if you need driver software for new hardware since it won't be readily available.

</comment><comment><USER59> [https://www.dragonflybsd.org/](https://www.dragonflybsd.org/) gotta mention it too, that it just exists is both surprising and great.

</comment><comment><USER60> So, I adore the _idea_ of FreeBSD. Anyone had much luck running it as a mostly exclusive VM on top of a more standard desktop OS as the hypervisor? Hyper-V, Xhyve, etc.

<comment><USER30> The FreeBSD release process includes producing virtual machine images if you want to get started they're linked from the download page: [https://www.freebsd.org/where.html](https://www.freebsd.org/where.html)

</comment></comment><comment><USER61> I think OpenBSD is still more secure than FreeBSD

<comment><USER57> FreeBSD does not have a focus on security[0]. Indeed, the defaults are notoriously insecure. There was a textfile floating around on how to bring it up to some standard but it eludes me. So it's a low bar, but freebsd is great under low memory conditions, it has a rock solid filesystem baked in that is gold-supported, one of the best tracing tools known to mankind and very clear documentation.

That's the power of freebsd. Not security.

[0]: [https://vez.mrsk.me/freebsd-defaults.html](https://vez.mrsk.me/freebsd- defaults.html)

<comment><USER17> (The referenced document is authored by an OpenBSD developer with points to score and an axe to grind; probably best to learn what lessons you can from it, but don't take it as some objective truth about the world.)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER62> What a silly article. He mentions he ran a home FTP server on FreeBSD, switches it out for a Linux ftp server, because it needed a reboot every third day.

Meanwhile Walnut Creek cd-rom was setting bandwidth and uptime records with a P6-200 running FreeBSD as their ftp server

</comment><comment><USER63> I love the simple and minimal site design of this website. Kudos!

</comment><comment><USER64> Can you install the latest version of Java on it?

<comment><USER65> Yes, at the time for this writing OpenJDK 13.02 and 11.0.6 is available in ports

</comment></comment><comment><USER66> Yes, yes it is.

</comment><comment><USER67> Porting FreeBSD to GPL can promote its user base;

<comment><USER68> Hell no.

I used to be all-in for GPL, but GPL is an ideology. Just like with philosophies/ideologies, one exclusively is never true enough for reality. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the BSD licensing: it allows multiple views on the world to co-exist, unlike GPL.

</comment></comment><comment><USER69> If I want lot of work and an amazing operating system, I'd' ve built an operating system myself.

Since I'm a person with a job, run serious things and has a deadline, I use linux.

</comment><comment><USER70> I like what works.

On servers, Linux seems to work. Maybe it's not as good as _bsd in some cases, but I don 't know those cases; and Linux has thus far worked.

Where _bsd has worked for me is on macOS. I think that's a bit less about bsd and more about desktop/UI decisions dating back to the Steve Jobs days (idiosyncrasies aside). But I have doubts about how much the underlying OS had to do with the experience at the UI level.

Whether a bsd or linux, the desktop story is terrible compared to macOS. Even Windows has some advantage if certain app dependencies are considered. As a developer (who must still also perform some business tasks), macOS is the best option. Linux desktops are almost as good, with some big exceptions. BSD desktops might perhaps be on par with Linux, but they will fail on some of the development requirements.

I know competition is good for innovation, but at some point I would like to see the highly fragmented OSS desktop efforts consolidate. At this point, long after Jobs's death, macOS has fallen greatly in terms of quality and usability; so surpassing it isn't _that_ hard. Windows still doesn't, but I doubt it ever will. In fact, Windows has increased significantly as a development platform while still remaining horrible from a desktop user perspective. macOS has slipped. Linux has gained only slightly. BSD, who knows... but it cannot have improved more than Linux. Whether Linux or BSD, there's plenty of achievable gains to make if motivated OSS folks would consolidate more.

<comment><USER71> > Linux has gained only slightly. BSD, who knows... but it cannot have > improved more than Linux.

Why is that so impossible? Konqueror had a tiny fraction of the contributors that Mozilla had, but since it was better designed it was still able to get ahead, and now almost everyone is using a Konqueror-derived rendering engine. If they had "consolidated" with Mozilla we would have missed out on that.

Right now, FreeBSD does a lot of things better than Linux. ZFS is better than anything Linux can offer. Jails are still ahead of Linux containers. OSSv4 is still nicer than ALSA. FreeBSD ifconfig is still nicer than whatever you have to use to configure your wifi this week. I'm not going to switch to a worse OS, and I'm not sure why you'd expect anyone else to.

<comment><USER72> I hear this all the time but see no proof.

Why are jails better and if so why did they lose to containers?

Why is OSS better when alsa could probably interface with one of those talking fish on the wall if you ask it nicely.

Why is ZFS any better than the Linux implementation if freeBSD is backporting the Linux version now.

Why is ifconfig better than network manager when there are no drivers for half the chipsets anyway.

Linux is practical, and I think hate for it comes from BSD users frustrated that they dont want to learn how another kernel works but I share none of the problems BSD users often claim. Your hangup is on a distro or a filesystem but never the actual Linux kernel which it seems to me nobody bothers to learn before trashing anyway.

<comment><USER71> > Why are jails better and if so why did they lose to containers?

They're better because they have actual security/isolation engineering. They lost because all people care about is having some kind of backend for orchestration systems that's capable of running Python. Even on Linux you can find all sorts of technical arguments about one form of container being better than another, but no-one actually cares beyond "does kubernetes use it as a backend? y/n".

> Why is OSS better when alsa could probably interface with one of those > talking fish on the wall if you ask it nicely.

It offers a proper unixy API where you just have bytestream interfaces that you write to. You can use ordinary command line tools rather than needing a bunch of specialised programs.

> Why is ZFS any better than the Linux implementation if freeBSD is > backporting the Linux version now.

There are more maintainers for ZFS on Linux - which should tell you something about how much better ZFS is than any Linux-native filesystem. The ZfsOnLinux codebase is fine, and if the licensing issues were ever resolved then one of the biggest reasons to use FreeBSD would go away.

> Why is ifconfig better than network manager when there are no drivers for > half the chipsets anyway.

Because it works the way you'd expect, and stuff that works continues to work. E.g. fun story: Linux can't connect to my work VPN, because there's no way to pass a one time passcode through to a VPN login. Even though I've got the same version of OpenVPN installed on both FreeBSD and Linux, which has support for one time passcodes, on Linux that gets lost somewhere in the tightly-coupled layers in between that are necessary to have a network connection there.

> Linux is practical, and I think hate for it comes from BSD users frustrated > that they dont want to learn how another kernel works but I share none of > the problems BSD users often claim. Your hangup is on a distro or a > filesystem but never the actual Linux kernel which it seems to me nobody > bothers to learn before trashing anyway.

ZFS support is a kernel licensing issue. Jails are something that would require kernel-level support. Beyond that "Linux" is a pretty standard synecdoche for the whole OS; if there were reputable non- systemd/networkmanager/wayland distributions that would solve some of my problems, sure, but there aren't (I looked at installing Devuan but it seems to have already collapsed).

<comment><USER15> > Linux can't connect to my work VPN, because there's no way to pass a one > time passcode through to a VPN login. Even though I've got the same version > of OpenVPN installed on both FreeBSD and Linux, which has support for one > time passcodes, on Linux that gets lost somewhere in the tightly-coupled > layers in between that are necessary to have a network connection there.

I suspect that you are missing whatever the gui ovpn plugin uses for askpass (should be in the log, complaining). Try starting the vpn from cli ('nmcli connection up $conname'); nmcli is pretty good at asking for info it needs, without the 'tightly-coupled layers' getting into its way.

<comment><USER71> Nope - just tried it, "Error: Connection activation failed: Unknown reason". There's a bug in the Ubuntu bug tracker that's been there for a year or two with no solution.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


CodinGame – Practice coding with fun programming challenges - <AUTHOR> http://codingame.com/ <comment><USER2> "Get hired at awesome companies"

Show picture of awful open floor plan with some jerk riding a cart around to doubly ensure you'll never be able to concentrate.

<comment><USER3> Totally this.

Reminds me of the footer of Riot Games Engineering blog[0]. The content they post is _very_ good and interesting, and I don't doubt it must be a pretty cool company to work at, but that office photo at the bottom literally describes hell for me. I would spend my whole day there waiting for my anxiety to cause a heart attack.

[0] - [https://engineering.riotgames.com/](https://engineering.riotgames.com/)

<comment><USER4> Sure QuietComfort 35's will solve your sound issues in environments like this. I can highly recommend them!

[https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01E3SNO3E/ref=twister_B01GJO0WO...](https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01E3SNO3E/ref=twister_B01GJO0WO4?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1)

...but yeah, that looks particularly terrible.

<comment><USER3> I'm already a happy owner of:

[https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/PC-Headsets/HyperX-Cloud- Gaming-H...](https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/PC-Headsets/HyperX-Cloud-Gaming- Headset-PS4-Mac- Mobile/B00JJNQG98/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1488560479&sr=1-1&keywords=cloud+x+hyper)

I actually bought _two_ pairs. First for use at home, based on Wirecutter recommendations. They are good at silencing the environment, so I quickly bought a second pair for work...

<comment><USER5> Do you wear glasses by any chance? I haven't found a decent headphone that doesn't press the frame of my glasses to the point of giving me headache in the first hour.

I have a QuietComfort 15 and a Beyerdynamic DT-770-PRO-32. The Beyerdynamic is bigger and more comfortable on the ears, but puts more pressure so it's it hurts faster. The Bose is smaller and less comfortable on the ears, but lighter, so I can support it a bit longer.

<comment><USER3> I do. Somehow I don't think I ever had this problem; my frames touch my head all the time anyway.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> <opinion> I've tried CodinGame for a brief while, but became less enthusiastic of using it because of the fantasy/RPG/war game theme. Personally, the visuals, the (sometimes slow) execution of the code because of the animation, and the gaming references (descriptions) distracted me from actual coding and learning.

Codewars (except for the name) has less emphasis on the in-game competition and fight. Although that visual theme is also rather dark, there's less distraction.

Personally, I'd prefer even a much 'cleaner' UX and UI. Or -- but with loss of the advantages (but also disadvantages) of coding in the browser window -- code challenges that just require a number or string to be submitted as an answer. (Project Euler, Advent of Code, Google Code Jam.) Then my whole coding environment is under my control, and the programming languages and tools to be used aren't restricted as well by the platform provided.

But having said that, CodinGame looks great (if you fancy the theme) and is really well executed. It's just not my cup of tea. </opinion>

</comment><comment><USER7> OpenAI Gym is a much better alternative to this. It's better in every way and more importantly you're not just giving away all your hard work for free.

<comment><USER8> You can only use Python in OpeneAI Gym if I'm not mistaken.

<comment><USER3> Indeed. They say other languages are coming soon.

I wonder how much code one needs to port to be able to use another language?

<comment> LeonardA-L Not so much but it's an old architecture that dates back before docker/container techs came around, so it's kind of a pain. We're looking into a better architecture that would allow us to add any language in a couple hours

<comment> LeonardA-L You're the third person to ask for this on this HN post :) I'll just copy- paste my answer now

We have a lot on our plates right now so adding new languages isn't the main priority, however we add languages based on the number of upvotes on suggestions in our dedicated forum thread

[https://www.codingame.com/forum/t/please-add-the- following-p...](https://www.codingame.com/forum/t/please-add-the- following-p..).

Do not hesitate to go there and vote/ask for Common Lisp

<comment><USER3> Thanks, I registered and did exactly that!

<comment><USER3> Also, it seems the link copied wrong; here's the correct one, if anyone else wants to vote Common Lisp (please do!) :).

[https://www.codingame.com/forum/t/please-add-the- following-p...](https://www.codingame.com/forum/t/please-add-the-following- programming-languages/717/6)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I'll post my personal experiences with this software - it was not enjoyable and I felt it was mostly a waste of time. I didn't feel like it effectively conveyed the idea and purpose of the lessons it was trying to give. Ultimately, it was kind of a waste of time...

I had a lot more success and a lot more enjoyment with OpenAI Gym. If codingame is interesting to you, definitely save yourself some time and check out OpenAI Gym!

</comment><comment><USER10> codingame.com is one the best casual coding websites there is. The games are all interesting and go on to teach and illustrate concepts. The contests are also really cool. Social coding brought to a whole new level.

<comment> LeonardA-L Thank you, we appreciate this a lot :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Nice execution.

Please mail me when you add Common Lisp, I'll come back and play ;).

<comment><USER11> will do. Not on our plans right now though. (Thibaud from CG)

<comment><USER3> Very sad to hear that :(. Is there any way one could help make it happen sooner?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Looks cool, missing my go to language though: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck)

<comment><USER13> Also Python is version 2 and not 3.

<comment> LeonardA-L There is python2 and python3, they are just separated languages

<comment><USER13> My bad. I did not see the language choices in the select menu are not alphabetized. Should have looked at it more carefully before commenting.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> "We support them all"... bah! Where is Forth?

<comment><USER15> A Forth based AI? Reminds me of Mentifex.

<comment><USER16> Gave you an upvote just for mentioning that - though beware, you may have summoned him.

Amazingly - from the last time I looked (only a month or so ago) - ATM is still around and ranting across the net (as much as some things change, it's nice to see he hasn't - as strange as that may sound).

<comment><USER15> I was slightly curious to see if he would appear with some ASCII art architecture diagrams.

<comment><USER3> Just wait for this thread to get indexed by Google...

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> This looks really cool! I wonder, is there any plan for eventually supporting Common Lisp? I was a bit disappointed to see it wasn't on the list.

<comment> LeonardA-L We have a lot on our plates right now so adding new languages isn't the main priority, however we add languages based on the number of upvotes on suggestions in our dedicated forum thread

[https://www.codingame.com/forum/t/please-add-the- following-p...](https://www.codingame.com/forum/t/please-add-the-following- programming-languages/717/6)

Do not hesitate to go there and vote/ask for Common Lisp

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> This seems like a much more interesting alternative to things like codewars. I'll definitely check it out.

</comment><comment><USER19> They have a really good onboarding flow.

</comment><comment><USER20> Fun! What would be a really cool addition to this is unveiling the test cases one at a time. It would add an element of building your code in a flexible way when you don't know what all the requirements will be yet.

</comment><comment><USER21> Sounds like this is a variant (and more directly competitive) than what patio11 was working on for starfighters? If so huh, wonder what makes them think they'll have better luck than starfighters did.

<comment> LeonardA-L Full disclosure: I work at CodinGame.

CodinGame has been around since 2012, and we've seen the rise and fall of Starfighters. We are doing fine with a community of 500K+ developers, and I think the main difference with Starfighters is that we have the momentum and strength of a full company (~20 people). Our code execution backend is starting to be pretty robust now, we can make games with pretty good graphics, we have a sales team that can handle the partners of our worldcups and follow- up on the hires.

I think it would be harder today to create such a company and get the momentum we have.

<comment><USER21> Awesome, thanks for taking the time to answer.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> codingame has destroyed my productivity because it is awesome

</comment><comment><USER23> Does this have a game mode thats similar to Robocode?

</comment><comment><USER24> blocked at my workplace because of an old ssl cert i think.

</comment><comment><USER25> Gonna be there in 20 min. K3

</comment><comment><USER26> [https://static.codingame.com/common/images/start/background_...](https://static.codingame.com/common/images/start/background_05.1bef5781.jpg)

What the fuck.</comment>


Show HN: Color Contrast - <AUTHOR> http://www.userlight.com/colorcontrast/ <comment><USER2> This site kills my back button's history.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the feedback, but are you sure you haven't meant this comment for another site - this is a simple static HTML page :)</comment></comment>


Show HN: Killing credit cards – meet Bits, a privacy first borrowing app - <AUTHOR> http://www.getbits.app <comment><USER2> Very intrigued. The things that threw me off were:

1\. It would be great if you could give an example of what the fees look like. For instance, borrowing £100 for 30 days costs £5 or something. Sounds like I have to sign up and load money into the app to get a sense of how expensive it would be.

2\. The nicknames for common banking terms may cause more confusion than they're worth :/ I had to make a mental map between "pocket" = account, "bit" = loan, "superpowers" = also loan? before I could understand what I was reading.

Good luck!

<comment><USER3> A comment from the last time this was posted:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18075506](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18075506)

If the above is still correct, interest is charged at 1% per month, based on the credit limit, not the outstanding amount. So the APR might be something between 12.7% (if you borrow the maximum) and ~infinity (if you have a non- negligible limit, but borrow only 0.01 GBP).

<comment><AUTHOR> Hello. That was a different product...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> I looked up the company listed on the page (Fea Card Limited) on the FCA's register, but there were no matches:

[https://register.fca.org.uk/shpo_nosearchresultpage?mainsear...](https://register.fca.org.uk/shpo_nosearchresultpage?mainsearchString=fea+card&search=Fea+Card&sfdcIFrameOrigin=null)

<comment><AUTHOR> Hi! Founder here. Yes we're in the process.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> They're going to have to be making money somehow, yet they claim to charge no interest. I can't really find any information about this on their website. Does anyone know?

<comment><USER5> They're charging interest, just in real pound terms rather than percentages.

You request 'superpowers' to multiply the amount of money you have (a secured loan), and they advise what the monthly fee is and the repayment terms up front.

It's no different to any other secured loan, they just focus on presenting the actual £ amounts rather than % AERs, which is probably clearer for the vast majority of people.

<comment><USER3> "It's no different to any other secured loan"

It appears to be an unsecured loan. A secured loan is one where the lender takes a lien on (or physical possession of) collateral that can be repossessed or liquidated if the borrower fails to pay back.

"presenting the actual £ amounts rather than % AERs, which is probably clearer for the vast majority of people."

The consumer credit regulators don't agree with you[0]. In the UK, any promotion/solicitation for consumer credit that includes a cost of credit (e.g. the amount of a fee) must also show the APR. The intent of these regulations is to allow offers from different lenders to be compared on a standard measure.

[0] [https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC/3/5.html](https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC/3/5.html)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> This is a game changer - I don't think enough fintechs focus on simple legibility of finance and this execution is simple but powerful

Signed up for sure!</comment>


Go deeper, not wider - <AUTHOR> http://www.raptitude.com/2017/12/go-deeper-not-wider/ <comment><USER2> This is especially relevant in tech. I feel a lot of language hype and framework churn is due to this obsession with whatever is newest and most shiny.

</comment><comment><USER3> If you're going to go deep in a technology be sure it's one that's not likely to be supplanted a few years down the road.

<comment><USER4> +1. Super-expert COBOL experts probably get paid pretty well, but there are few of them.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I clicking on this telling myself that this was the last post I would read today on HN and I'm glad I did. This is exactly the kind of thing I wanted to read and I'm going to spend my time in the coming year holding this philosophy close.

<comment><USER4> So you won't read any more articles, just re-read this one?

:)</comment></comment>


Bret Victor - Drawing Dynamic Visualizations - <AUTHOR> http://vimeo.com/m/66085662

<comment><USER2> Bret Victor had this talk in February 2013. Is his drawing dynamic visualization tool already available somewhere?</comment>