Evan You: Vue in 2016 - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/the-vue-point/vue-in-2016-8df71d98bfb3#.hvfwq96e3 <comment><USER2> > Is It Just Hype?

Who is to say?

I think the "hype" about Vue comes greatly from the fact that some people are disenchanted.

Ember switched from MVC to components to play with the cool kids, which made it complete new framework and then the forced usage of CLI with their idomatic tooling (who else uses broccoly!?) in current times, where everyone builds their own stack was a step in the wrong direction for many.

Angular failed people multiple times, first with its steep learning curve, that didn't grow out of reliable features, but more out of over engineering, and then with the break to ng2, which didn't fix any of the problems, but just moved them in a different direction.

React is nice and has a small API that most people get rather fast, but the whole Flux/Redux fights back in the day didn't help. I use Redux at work and have the feeling 1/2 of my code is some action/store boilerplate that I wouldn't have needed with Ember.

To me, Cycle.js + TypeScript is the future, but I also thought this about LiveScript. I constantly have the feeling I find awesome tech somewhere, but it just doesn't get widespread use.</comment>


Quick SEO Tip: Set Preferred Domain in Google Webmaster Tools - <AUTHOR> http://devgrow.com/quick-seo-tip-set-preferred-domain-in-google-webmaster-tools/

<comment><USER2> If I already do the redirect, do I still need to set a preferred domain?

<comment><AUTHOR> I did, and I think it can only help (it certainly can't hurt to). The main scenario I can see this being of importance is if you recently started redirecting to a single domain and Google has previously crawled your site, setting a preferred domain may help to regain your page ranking.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Are there any relative merits to standardizing on a www sub-domain versus standardizing on non-www sub-domain?

<comment><AUTHOR> There was a huge debate on this a few years back, however most of that seems to have died down now. Matt Cutts discussed it a few years ago: [http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/seo-advice-url- canonicalizatio...](http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/seo-advice-url- canonicalization/)

I think it's a matter of personal preference - just be consistent with whatever you pick.</comment></comment>


Process takes CO₂ from the air, converts it to carbon nanotubes - <AUTHOR> https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/05/process-takes-co₂-from-the-air-converts-it-to-carbon-nanotubes/ <comment><USER2> They note that the market is small, but what if it wasn't? Imagine we found a way to convert atmospheric CO2 into literally anything we want, at the cheapest physically possible cost of splitting it into C and O2. Even then, converting a significant percentage of it would take as much energy as we got from burning it in the first place, which is an insane amount. So to make a dent in global warming, a significant percentage of the world's goods must be made with this kind of process. Seems like a tall order, though not impossible (e.g. we could grow lots of trees and make everything from wood).</comment>


What Language Do I Use? - <AUTHOR> I am in the process of developing a site similar to www.zazzle.com and www.cafepress.com. Being the non-technical creator, I am looking for the programming language that I need to use when looking for an appropriate programmer for developing this site with me. In your responses, I would greatly appreciate if you could estimate the time and cost it would take for a programmer to bring this site online. Thanks!!! <comment><USER2> There is no answer to this question. It's like asking, "I need to communicate with someone. What spoken language should I use?" The best answer is "the one in which the speakers are the most fluent." The same is true for programming languages, more or less. There are some wrong answers, but also a large number of potentially right answers.

If you're starting a technology company and don't know a lot about technology, picking a programming language is literally the _least_ of your problems. You need to find a good software engineer. Once you have found one of those, he can answer the language question far better than any of us could.

<comment><AUTHOR> I understand this, but some software engineers have more experience on one platform versus another(iPhone vrs Android vrs WM7). So when I am searching for an software engineer, I want to make sure they can develop sites similar to what I posted. On that note, where do you suggest finding "qualified" software engineers? I joined a few meetups in NYC (where I live) and will be attending them. Thanks!!!

<comment><USER3> You need to be specific on what your needs are regarding platforms, though that generally doesn't define which language to use; though there are exceptions, like for example OSX and Obj-C... and even in this case you could still end up using a different language altogether. If you need an iphone dev, advertise for such. If you need a web dev, advertise for a web dev. You need to make sure you have the right person for the job regardless of the language.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I'd go with English. You seem to be competent enough with that.

Oh, programming language? Well, if you don't have any opinion of your own, why does it matter? Find a good programmer, and let her use whatever she's comfortable with.

<comment><AUTHOR> thanks for the response. and we'll definitely be using english since i haven't studied spanish since high school. it's not that i don't have an opinion, it's that i don't have enough information to form an opinion, hence, why i posted on here. while i intend on finding a "good" programmer, i'd like to be able to tell them what i need done in there language when i am searching for one.

<comment><USER4> > i'd like to be able to tell them what i need done in there language...

When you say "in their language", do you mean "putting it in terms that they will understand", or "telling them exactly how to write the code"?

Neither of these should really be necessary. You should be able to state your requirements, and then follow up with any clarifications if necessary. Since you've taken the role of "non-technical creator", it's probably best if you're not involved with the actual design of the code. (Not including how the site behaves, looks, etc.)

<comment><AUTHOR> I am not sure of the "requirements" that are needed. I know what the site needs to do and what our goal is. We have a team in place that will handle the design and look of the site, but I need to develop a relationship with someone that can develop the back-end and the features that will be needed to make the site cohesive and work.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Programming languages are really case specific and preferences of the programmers. The truth is it really doesn't matter what language is chosen, the only thing that matters is that you get an awesome team of programmers and designers to work on your project. You don't need to be able to tell the programmer what you want regarding code, you need to be able to define the business logic of the building blocks to your application and take it from there one iteration at a time.

<comment><AUTHOR> Gotcha!

If I go onto sites and am searching for the development work that I need to have done, you suggest saying that I want a site similar to zazzle and cafepress (I'm talking about their design boxes where you create and edit your creations) instead of posting what language I need to software engineer to be able to code in?

<comment><USER3> Yeah, the language is irrelevant at this stage in your applications life cycle. I would understand having to use a specific language because of existing code, or because its the convention of the current workforce, but for a project that hasn't even started yet I'd focus on the quality of my programmers before any language preference.

<comment><AUTHOR> Programmers all have a specialty (designing for web based apps vrs mobile apps vrs software apps). So in picking the "right" team, I'd like to make sure that they can develop what I need develop. Now, because what I what done has been developed by other sites, I'd like to be able to tell my prospective team what we'll be doing. Is it enough to say that I want to develop a site similar to zazzle and cafepress or do I need to tell them that zazzle and cafepress use XYZ kind of language?

<comment><USER4> > Programmers all have a specialty (designing for web based apps vrs mobile > apps vrs software apps).

So specifically say that you're looking for a web developer. This is a standard thing to do.

> Is it enough to say that I want to develop a site similar to zazzle and > cafepress

Well, no. I'd say that as it is, this description is both too much and too little. It's too much in that it sounds like you're trying to make a quick buck by ripping off other people. It's too little in that you don't say why it's an interesting idea, and why people would use your site instead of the others. (However, that's probably not something that you want to share publicly at the moment.) It might just be best to say that you want to develop a website and then give more details later.

> or do I need to tell them that zazzle and cafepress use XYZ kind of > language?

Unless you're hiring developers to work for Zazzle or Cafepress, no. Anyone competent will already know which languages work well for this kind of project, and will have an opinion on which one should be used.

<comment><AUTHOR> All very good points! And I misspoke when I said I wanted to develop a site similar to zazzle and cafepress. What I want to know is, what do you need to use to create their product developer and the ability to compensate the designers that put their work on the site.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Announcing TypeScript 0.9.5 - <AUTHOR> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/typescript/archive/2013/12/05/announcing-typescript-0-9-5.aspx

<comment><USER2> Built times were cut in half! Pretty impressive. Time to take a look at this platform.

</comment><comment><USER3> Excellent news!</comment>


3D Printing and Self Replicating Machines In Your Living Room - Seriously - <AUTHOR> http://singularityhub.com/2009/04/09/3d-printing-and-self-replicating-machines-in-your-living-room-seriously/

<comment><USER2> Groan.

It's the RepRap.

AGAIN.

Google's got 93 hits on RepRap being mentioned here at news.yc.

As I've said before ( <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=295880> )

I am dramatically underwhelmed.

The construction is shoddy, the technique (basically hot-glue extrusion of thermoplastics) is hackish and has poor tolerances, the concept of "self replication" is grossly dumbed down (a very very large number of parts are not constructed, even from high quality inputs, but just store bought), etc., etc.

In short, I was fairly embarrassed for the RepRap folks.

Their toy is somewhat cool (although nowhere near as cool as, say, the Gingery lathe that is cast from aluminum melted in a cast iron cookpot, and machines itself as construction progresses), but to claim that it represents any important step forward in self replication ...</comment>


The curious case of slowing US growth for Android - <AUTHOR> http://www.asymco.com/2011/12/30/the-curious-case-of-slowing-us-growth-for-android/ <comment><USER2> If 91 million people already have smartphones (I don't know if that is true, I'm taking the linked article at face value), shouldn't we expect growth to be slowing?

There are 310 million people who live in the US and not everyone in that 310 million is a target customer for a smartphone (young kids, older folks, people who just don't like cellphones).

Based on nothing but common sense it seems fairly obvious to me that growth will continue but at a slowing pace -- the market isn't saturated, but much of the low-hanging fruit is snatched up.

<comment><USER3> Why did you only account for the 310 million people in America while negating the other 6.7 billion?

<comment><USER4> The article is about the slowing US growth for Android (US, not world).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Data point: Last I checked, Verizon only offered 4 phones that do not require a data plan. Everything else they offer is Android, BB, iOS, and maybe WinPhone. Even their semismart Samsung phones require some $15 data plan.

At least when walking into a Verizon store, your perceived choice was android or android; everything else is plopped into a corner. I wonder if they will be successful in converting the remaining feature phone customers by simply removing that option in the future.

Is the same thing happening on other carriers?

</comment><comment><USER6> When someone comments about growth percentages, most of the time either he doesn't know what he is talking about or is intentionally or subconsciously interpreting numbers to misguide.

<comment><USER7> Except that Asymco is one of the most trusted analysts in the mobile space.

<comment><USER6> Then he is probably of the second type. His analysis reeks of bias and has glaring problems.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> So, Android's market share and position has stabilized. No big deal.

As the Android phones get cheaper and cheaper, they will invade the low-end mobile phone segment in masses and gain some further additional growth from there. But only some.

The thing is, when nearly everyone, including non-computer-savvy people, has an Android phone, it becomes an infrastructure in itself and in its own ubiquity a platform never seen before. Just think what you can do with that if you're a service provider.

<comment><USER9> Is the cost of owning an Android phone going to ever be significantly reduced from where it is now? The data plans that are necessary to use Android as a smartphone are surely the vast majority of the cost of ownership, and carriers are going to charge what they're going to charge for those.

<comment><USER10> There could be cheaper data plans (with lower bandwidth, capped amount of transfers, whatever). I'm always astonished to hear how much plans cost in the US.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> This is not coincidence.

1) the iPhone's availability on Sprint (Oct 2011)

2) HTC revenue dips 30% (November 2011)</comment>


Google Experiments with a Ring that Acts as Your Password - <AUTHOR> http://www.technologyreview.com/news/512051/google-wants-to-replace-all-your-passwords-with-a-ring/#.UT8at_1pbfw.hackernews <comment><USER2> Suddenly, losing my wedding ring does not look _that_ bad.

I doubt anything physical will ever replace passwords. At most it'll be useful for multiple-factor authentication. It's easy to lose a ring (or get it broken, stolen, rigged, etc.)</comment>


Bug: true and false are not Posix (2016) - <AUTHOR> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-coreutils/2016-03/msg00040.html <comment><USER2> This is a textbook example of a bikeshed: [http://bikeshed.com](http://bikeshed.com)

Nobody is calling true or false in a script with options/arguments. Nobody hss ever seen true/false fail because they crashed in setlocale. Nobody's highest, second-highest, or 1000th-highest risk to their code is the performance of their true/false implementation.

But it's a really easy thing to have opinions about. You use UNIX for one week and suddenly you're exactly as qualified as Dennis Ritchie to have opinions on the matter.

<comment><USER3> I've seen... (ok, actually I recommended)... someone do the following:

        if [ -x /usr/bin/blah ]
        then
           BLAH=/usr/bin/blah
        else
           BLAH=/bin/true
        fi

        $BLAH foo bar baz

They wanted BLAH to be a noop if blah didn't exist. I could only think of /bin/true as a noop at the time, but I needed it to ignore parameters.

The man page defines that it does.

(in retrospect, we could have defined an sh function noop {} )

<comment><USER4> I was going to mention that it came up just days ago on Unix and Linux StackExchange. (-:

* [https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/497561/5132](https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/497561/5132)

The conditionally defined shell function in one of the other answers is a more appealing approach, especially given the native behaviours of some shells with respect to variable expansion. But also given that /bin/true is not necessarily the pathname.

        % export BLAH='/bin/true too'
        % dash -c '$BLAH 1 2 3'
        % dash: 1: /bin/true: not found
        % sh -c '$BLAH 1 2 3'
        /bin/true: not found
        % ksh -c '$BLAH 1 2 3'
        ksh: /bin/true: not found
        % zsh -c '$BLAH 1 2 3'
        zsh:1: no such file or directory: /bin/true too
        % bash -c '$BLAH 1 2 3'
        bash: /bin/true: No such file or directory
        %
        % export BLAH='/usr/bin/true too'
        % zsh -c '$BLAH 1 2 3'
        zsh:1: no such file or directory: /usr/bin/true too
        % bash -c '$BLAH 1 2 3'
        % ksh -c '$BLAH 1 2 3'
        % dash -c '$BLAH 1 2 3'
        %

<comment><USER3> Yeah, that was my answer -- and actually I wrote /usr/bin/true on SO but got sloppy here.

I wrote that answer because I recalled it as a common idiom in autoconf or something -- some automake system I'd seen where the system seeks out the tools it needs and defines them as variables.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> OT but, I've always thought the true and false summaries would make great t-shirts and inspirational posters. "do nothing, successfully" sounds zen, and "do nothing, unsuccessfully" sounds like a sportswear slogan.

</comment><comment><USER6> 2017 POSIX, Section 2.1.1, paragraph 4:

"The system may provide non-standard extensions. These are features not required by POSIX.1-2017 and may include, but are not limited to:

Additional functions

[ ... ]

Additional options for standard utilities"

[ ... ]"

[http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/basedefs/V1_...](http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/basedefs/V1_chap02.html#tag_02_01_01)

A standard utility that takes no options can be extended locally to take options. "Some options" constitutes "additional options" relative to "no options".

Since the descriptions of _true_ and _false_ say they take no options; therefore POSIX-conforming scripts don't pass any. A POSIX-conforming script has no way of finding out whether true or false take implementation-defined options (i.e. any options whatsoever).

</comment><comment><USER7> The authors of the utilities seem to make a pretty good case on how GNU's 'true' and 'false' _are_ POSIX compliant, because their extensions to them are covered where POSIX leaves the behavior as undefined, and in fact it seems to be the invocation of 'true' with any arguments itself that is not in accordance to POSIX.

Whether it's "not common sense" is not very apparent when "common sense" is pretty difficult to define here (as often the case).

<comment><USER8> > The authors of the utilities seem to make a pretty good case on how GNU's > 'true' and 'false' are POSIX compliant, because their extensions to them are > covered where POSIX leaves the behavior as undefined, and in fact it seems > to be the invocation of 'true' with any arguments itself that is not in > accordance to POSIX.

Ok, so undefined behavior is seen an escape valve through which the devs can change longstanding behavior in the interest of consistency with a newer set of interface standards they've devised. Fine.

But then this response from a dev on that mailinglist[1]:

> Note that it is a high bar to change the behavior of something like 'true'.

Hm... now I'm slightly intrigued.

Did the change that introduced the standard "\--help" flag and addition of locale-related code flow directly from the "escape valve" of undefined behavior in POSIX? Or was the undefined behavior merely a starting point for a much more involved discussion about whether to change a long-standing interface that could introduce subtle bugs in old scripts/programs that relied on implementation details of undefined behavior?

Edit: clarification. Also if someone can point me to a mailing list discussion that shows evidence of the latter I would be much obliged.

[1] [https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug- coreutils/2016-03/msg...](https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug- coreutils/2016-03/msg00050.html)

<comment><USER9> You're talking as if this were a recent change. GNU true --help has existed for about 28 years now (it was introduced in sh-utils 1.7). That's more than half of Unix's existence.

<comment><USER8> I don't see the relevance, but maybe I'm confused about the development history of this command.

Was there a time when GNU existed without the "\--help" flag? Or was it originally committed with the "\--help" flag present?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> The first and best /bin/true was an empty file — possibly the only bug-free program ever written.

The worst may be the System V version, which added a copyright notice.

<comment><USER11> > possibly the only bug-free program ever written.

Oh come now. I'm quite sure my hello world program is bug free. It prints "Hello World" successfully, and there are zero other cases that could exist.

<comment><USER12> You're obviously joking, but for those who aren't aware, even a naive "hello world" can have bugs.

[https://www.gnu.org/ghm/2011/paris/slides/jim-meyering- goodb...](https://www.gnu.org/ghm/2011/paris/slides/jim-meyering-goodbye- world.pdf)

<comment><USER11> I actually wasn't joking, but that link made me rethink, so thanks for that!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> 2016

</comment><comment><USER14> true once was, and IMO should be again, implemented as a 0 bytes executable.

Since then, it has infinitely bloated on most systems.

It actually began at AT&T, where they apparently decided to copyright the trueness. From there it went downhill, ever and ever.

[http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/humor/ATT_Copyright_true.html](http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/humor/ATT_Copyright_true.html)

<comment><USER15> Doesn't the 0 byte executable involve spawning a shell to run it? Better would be a tiny elf executable that just returns 0 (maybe hand written to avoid the compiler adding bloat)

<comment><USER16> No it does not. The 0 byte executable involves first trying to execl() it, the OS returning ENOEXEC, and _then_ spawning a shell.

Of course "spawning a shell" can be very cheap, as you are already in a shell, it's just fork() plus some initialization code (compared to fork() plus exec() for running a non-shell program)

Note that shells must try to interpret at least any text file for which the system returns ENOEXEC [1]

1: [http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/V3...](http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/V3_chap02.html#tag_18_09_01_01) Read subsection 1.e.i.b

<comment><USER15> Does this mean that putting #!/bin/sh at the head of scripts actually slows them down (assuming you are running from an sh like shell)?

<comment><USER16> I suggest measuring; there's overhead to the failed exec() call certainly. It probably depends on a lot of other factors too (which, if any rc files are read in each mode, how fast your shell is to startup &c.).

<comment><USER15> I just tested this.

Files:

1.sh:

        true

2.sh:

        #!/bin/bash
        true

test1.sh:

        for i in `seq 10000`
        do
        ./1.sh
        done

test2.sh:

        for i in `seq 10000`
        do
        ./2.sh
        done

Times for test1.sh:

        11.484s
        11.590s
        11.405s

Times for test2.sh:

        14.273s
        14.391s
        13.847s

So including the #! adds about 23% to the overhead of calling a shell script. Tested on Mint 19.1, bash.

EDIT: for reference, sourcing the scripts instead takes an average of 0.0842s for test1 and 0897s for test2. (and all test2 trials were still slower than all test1 trials), which isn't particuarly suprising.

Inlining true takes about 0.029s

<comment><USER17> Why did you use bash and not sh for the interpreter?

<comment><USER15> To keep the comparison fair. My interactive shell is bash (which I assume is a more popular choice for interactive shell then sh), and the version without any shebang will use whatever the parent shell is. To make the comparison fair, I wanted the version with the shebang to be using the same shell.

Besides, /bin/sh would also require dereferencing a symlink (to /bin/dash), which also doesn't seem fair.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Web Hosting and Payments in Japan? - <AUTHOR>

One of my customers who has a small business in Japan wants to setup a website, and a small online shop. Which makes me wonder : - what are the good web hosting services in Japan ? (and cheap, Amazon EC2 in Singapore would be too expensive, at least to begin with) - what are the good web payments services in Japan ? One that could handle cash payments in combini would be completely awesome.<p>So if there are some people with some insights on the Japanese web market, I'm sure that I'm not the only one interested ! <comment><USER2> There are _many_ web hosting services available in Japan, and they are easy to find if you search in Japanese: [http://www.google.co.jp/search?hl=ja&q=レンタルサーバー](http://www.google.co.jp/search?hl=ja&q=レンタルサーバー)

It sounds like the business in question is English speaking, so here are links to two foreigner-owned hosting services that have English sales/support: <http://tsukaeru.net/en/> <http://www.advantage24.co.jp/>

There are a number of payment services as well: [http://www.google.co.jp/search?hl=en&q=クレジットカード決済代行](http://www.google.co.jp/search?hl=en&q=クレジットカード決済代行)

Some provide convenience store payment options (コンビニ決済) such as this one: <http://www.pluscome.net/card/jpayment.htm> I have never used them, but I have used these two: <http://www.cardservice.co.jp/> <http://www.cybersource.co.jp/>

Note that PayPal is also relatively popular among foreign entrepreneurs here in Tokyo as well.</comment>


Apple to preview iPhone OS 4 this Thursday at Apple HQ - <AUTHOR> http://www.edibleapple.com/apple-to-preview-iphone-os-4-this-thursday-at-apple-hq/ <comment><USER2> Do we have any actual proof or justification to think that they will add unfettered multitasking or that most consumers are actually demanding such? Seems to be largely speculation.

</comment><comment><USER3> If they announce multitasking for 3rd party apps, it's gonna put a really entertaining new twist on this discussion: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1240171> :-)

<comment><USER4> Obvious Prediction: All the people that have been vehemently defending Apple's lack of multitasking will very smoothly switch to extolling the virtues of this new feature, and how its way better than Android/BB/whatever.

<comment><USER5> People who defend single-tasking do so because multitasking can cause problems w/r/t memory, performance, and battery life. If Apple releases a solution that doesn't suffer from those issues, there's absolutely nothing wrong with "extolling the virtues" of multitasking.

My money's on some sort of limited form of multitasking, where apps can launch background processes or something like that.

<comment><USER4> I don't think you've been following the conversation very well. When people bring up the iPhone's lack of multitasking (I've done this often in the past), most people will not say something reasonable like "Yes, you're right. It's a weakness of the platform that they should address". No, most of the time its a story about how lack of multitasking is _GOOD_ and how the other platforms are bad for offering it, how users are too stupid to use it etc.

This is one way in which I can tell apart people that like Apple products (ie, me) and fanboys (ie, those who think Apple products are perfection)

<comment><USER6> _No, most of the time its a story about how lack of multitasking is GOOD and how the other platforms are bad for offering it, how users are too stupid to use it etc._

To be perfectly honest, I can only think of two use cases for (third-party application) multitasking on a device like the iPhone:

1\. App 1 in background streams/plays music while I use App 2 to do something else.

2\. IM client in background popping up messages as they come in.

On a device with the form factor and use cases of a typical "smart" phone I just can't think of any other reasonable case where I'd even want, let alone need, multitasking.

So count me among the group who'll be happy if something shows up which actually makes multitasking on a device like the iPhone _useful_ , but who don't particularly miss it at the moment because there just isn't that much it'd be good for.

<comment><USER7> Passive GPS tracking apps \- Like locale for android which changes your profile settings to put your phone on silent when your at school. Speakerphone only while travelling fast, forward to your home phone while at home, etc.

<comment><USER8> Man, that's cool, but it'd drive _me_ crazy.

<comment><USER3> Why would it drive you crazy? From what I understand (I've never used it), the Locale app is customizable. You specify what setting you want changed and under what circumstances. I actually use similar but more limited free application on my N1 called "Timeriffic". I have it set to turn off notifications (text messages, new emails, etc) automatically at night and turn them on the next morning. I leave the ringer on though for phone calls, because generally if someone calls me on my cell after 11pm it's probably important. :-)

<comment><USER9> It sure sounds nice in theory, but I'm paranoid enough about such things working that I'd end up manually turning off my ringer anyway. At least for a _long_ time until I felt really comfortable with it... it is super sucky to be "that guy" at a wedding/funeral...

<comment><USER10> Do you really go to enough weddings or funerals in the same location that you'd be able to use something that keyed off GPS to change the ringer settings? I seriously hope you'd explicitly turn off the ringer in those cases.

<comment><USER9> :) Good point, but I was really just using those as hyperbole. A better example is that it can't know when I'm in a meeting or not (conference rooms in my building are interspersed with offices), so I've still gotta manually silence it during meetings... that's the most common use case for silencing for me (some aren't in this same situation, but many are), and location-based auto-silencing is useless for that.

So now the user has _two_ things to keep in mind as far as silencing: which times it is programmed to do so automatically (all of which the user must be a bit suspicious of already - as you said, to be extra-sure the user would want to manually override even at those locations during times that it's _really_ important for the ringer to be off) and which times they still have to manually override it. So we've got extra mental burden and anxiety for the user, partially or wholly overriding the savings of not having to worry about silencing in some circumstances. We're only trusting the system for those times where we'd really like it to work but it doesn't _have_ to be guaranteed, so there's some lurking uneasiness during those times.

And the user has to program it. And I'd think it's very likely to be a significant battery drain since it's needing to turn on the GPS quite often to be useful. Etc etc.

Anyway, it's a super-cool sounding feature when just considered as a bullet- point, but it just strikes me as a "techno cool" feature (kind of like speech recognition and "Minority Report" interfaces) that I doubt I'll ever see widely used. I'm sure there are a few specific circumstances where it's really handy and I'm happy for those who enjoy it, but I have nearly no interest in it compared to a trusty manual switch and I think I'm speaking for the vast majority of users there. Could certainly be wrong.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> As someone who doesn't live in the US, I'm excited way more by this than any iPad news.

<comment><USER12> As someone who does, I'm still way more excited about this than any iPad news.

<comment><USER5> This _is_ iPad news.

<comment><USER13> Likely _big_ iPad news. I'm hoping for some type of handwriting/fingerpaint recognition, myself.

<comment><USER14> Maybe they dusted off the old Newton code?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Well, not everyone agrees on the definition of multi-tasking. As a consumer, interleaving of processes seems quite adequate to me (i.e. no apps running in the background; apps are suspended on minimize), but an app developer may not agree.

I suspect that multitasking support, if introduced will be of the interleaved type- Apple's stance on true background apps being battery killers seems sensible to me.

But then, you never know: with the newer iPad style batteries, they might even pull it off! (I still doubt it, though, since that sort of OS update won't work on older iPhones)

<comment><USER16> I think many non-developers would agree that if you can't leave Pandora playing music while you go check your email, you don't have multi-tasking.

<comment><USER17> Even more significant to me (and some large competing industries): can you receive a VOIP call while using another app?

Skype on the iPhone/iPad is great, except for the need to pre-arrange simultaneous launch.

<comment><USER18> Skype _could_ use push notifications for incoming calls just fine.

<comment><USER17> Are they fast and reliable enough? (My understanding was that part of the Urban Airship value proposition was helping to paper-over the unreliability of Apple's push notifications.)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I wonder: will iPad owners have to pay for OS updates?

For the iPhone, their price has been considered-included, as an accounting matter, in the ongoing revenue Apple shares from the mobile operators. But, for the iPod Touch, upgrade fees have applied to get new features -- with the stated rationale being accounting requirements.

The iPad(Wifi only) is clearly more like an iPod Touch. But even the iPad(Wifi+3G), with no long-term contracts and buy-as-you-need-it service, may not have any ongoing Apple revenue share.

All iPad owners may be on the hook for a fee when iPhoneOS4.0 arrives.

<comment><USER19> You bought a minimum $500 device and you're going to complain about a nominal upgrade fee? Why do people bitch about this? You have even less excuse if you're using a 3G version which costs $700 and charges you a min of $15 a month (assuming you use the 3G).

<comment><USER20> Unfortunately you can use the same logic to argue the opposite point:

You just sold someone a minimum $500 device and you're going to charge a nominal upgrade fee on top of it? Why do companies do that?

<comment><USER21>
      Why do companies do that?

It has something to do with some weird accounting requirements/rules.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> It's a shame they couldn't release the iPads with 4.0 on them because many of the non-technical people won't realize there's an update or no how to update it. Though I guess last time they did an update along with a major device release (iPhone 3G) it was pretty disastrous because of all the hits on their OS and activation servers. Maybe they should have not required iPads to activate via iTunes.

<comment><USER23> The iPad requires iTunes (you can't even turn it on without iTunes). iTunes lets you know when there's an update and what to do.

<comment><USER24> You mean it requires iTunes for the first sync. After that you only need it for backing up.

<comment><USER25> For what it's worth you also need iTunes for software updates. Maybe one day we'll see OTA updates.

<comment><USER26> I would love them to make two changes for 4: OTA updates and syncing to mobileme or a USB hard drive. If they did those two changes, it would open up more people to be able to use and iPad.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> I wonder if Apple could drop the bomb and say they're bringing flash to the platform (since so many people are whining day and night about it)

I hope not.

On a more positive note, I hope they have multi-tasking and some kind of dashboard feature.

As a developer, I really hope they have some kind of CoreImage support.

<comment><USER21> Bringing flash would be only half of the solution. The usual use cases mentioned are video and games. Well, some video providers already are updating to include non-flash alternatives, but let's say this is valid point. Then we have games, and I am wondering: what's the use of Flash games, which are designed either with keyboard or mouse in mind. How many would be playable with multitouch at all?</comment></comment>


Tor Project Launches Summer of Privacy - <AUTHOR> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/TorSoP

<comment><USER2> As a past Google Summer of Code participant, I think that its a good move by EFF and the Tor Project. IMHO, GSoc is one of the best ways to get started with Open source, while your still a student.

<comment><USER3> As far as I know, this particular initiative is solely sponsored by Tor, not by EFF (differently from historical Tor Project participation in GSoC, which did include EFF).

Congratulations to the Tor Project on offering this program!

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> >Point us to a code sample: something good and clean to demonstrate that you know what you're doing--ideally from an existing project.

Just another example of why I personally need to actually work on "side projects." I keep a tiny github repository of abandoned projects and partially working school assignments. The code that I get paid to write can't be public.

"I'll get to it next month" has been my mantra on this for far too long.

</comment><comment><USER5> That is a very good idea! We (radare2) have a pretty good experience with our own Summer of Code, after we got rejected in 2014. This allows you to be even more flexible - to accept not only students, shift deadlines personally, etc. You can read about our successful previous year here [1]. Also this year we're starting our own RSoC again [2].

[1] [http://radare.today/the-rsoc-is-over/](http://radare.today/the-rsoc-is- over/)

[2] [http://rada.re/r/rsoc.html](http://rada.re/r/rsoc.html)

</comment><comment><USER6> silly question. any idea why people holding a passport from certain countries like Iran, Sudan, DPRK etc are excluded?

<comment><USER7> [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargoes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargoes)

<comment><USER6> thank you.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Sponsored by the NSA?</comment>


In what cases is Java faster than C++? - <AUTHOR> http://www.quora.com/In-what-cases-is-Java-faster-if-at-all-than-C#ans386926 <comment><USER3> I write a lot of hand-optimized Java code, and have found that while Java as a language can be pretty fast, and its HotSpot team is to be commended, Sun's _libraries_ are often atrocious. For example, until Java 1.5 (I think, maybe 1.4) ArrayList's get(), set(), and add() methods were not inline-able, and a one-line fix to the problem languished for years on Sun's bug forums. Sun's decision to go with type erasure was also a huge mistake in my opinion: as a result we have hilariously inefficient boxing and unboxing operations in poorly written Java code. Sun's push towards iterators hasn't helped things either.

If you eschew all this and write strongly optimized code, I think the single biggest spot where Java is unquestionably slower than C/C++ is in array accesses. In Java, to set a slot in a two-dimensional array Java must first test to see if the array is non-null, then test that the X bounds are correct, then test to see if the appropriate Y subarray is non-null, then test to see if the Y bounds are correct, then finally set the value.

In C the compiler does a multiply and an add and sets the slot.

<comment><USER4> Yes, the array bounds checks are inefficient, but IIRC, they're there to prevent buffer overflows that are/were prevalent in C applications.

<comment><USER5> We're definitely still on the "are" side of that one, unfortunately.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Cliff Click nailed the whole Java vs C/C++ performance subject in one terrific post - [http://www.azulsystems.com/blog/cliff- click/2009-09-06-java-...](http://www.azulsystems.com/blog/cliff- click/2009-09-06-java-vs-c-performanceagain) . Seriously no further discussion is needed on this topic until even more significant performance advances are made either in C/C++ compilers or the JVM :)

<comment><USER7> That article is naive. It assumes that C/C++ developers concerned with performance write object-oriented code. They do not. They write data-oriented code.

Most of the multi-threading issues go away. This is how fast code is written for the Cell processor in the Sony PS3.

Most malloc/free issues go away. Most data is a value type or has an explicit lifetime (game-lifetime, mission-lifetime, frame-lifetime for the game development case).

More information on data-oriented design: <http://gamesfromwithin.com/data- oriented-design>

<comment><USER6> I didn't read through the link fully but it sounds to me like after changing the way you program you can get C++ to deliver the kind of performance a JVM gives you without doing anything special? Or are you saying with data-oriented programming C++ becomes significantly faster than Java?

To the extent that most people aren't going to change their programming methodology just to avoid Java and C++ still has its niche usages - I don't think the article is naive in any way.

<comment><USER7> Data-oriented programming produces programs that are a magnitude faster than object-oriented programs. It's the same difference as stateful vs stateless code. And it's the same difference as RESTful APIs vs RPC.

If you care about performance and scalability then you write stateless code and use RESTful interfaces. You also choose to write data-oriented code rather than object-oriented code.

Data-oriented code is not possible in Java because you can't create complex value types and you can't control when and where memory gets allocated and deallocated.

<comment><USER8> > Data-oriented code is not possible in Java...

There are obviously techniques in data-oriented code that aren't possible in Java, but a lot of the key insight is applicable in just about every language. Structures-of-arrays, defining the data in objects based on usage patterns instead of responsibilities and "model-the-world" categorisation...

Java doesn't have a `sizeof` operator, and objects probably don't tend to store their object member variables by value, and it's not always obvious which function calls cost how much... Problems, to be sure, but if you _really_ want data-oriented code you can usually contort yourself far enough to get it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9>
      quux_t *foo(int i) {
          /* Trick to prevent compiler from inlining */
          if(i == 0) {
              quux_t *bar = (quux_t *) malloc(sizeof(quux_t));
              return bar;
          } else {
              return foo(0);
          }
      }

Seriously? GCC removes this obfuscation at -O2, Clang does it at -O1. Check the disassembly before making stupid claims like this.

<comment><USER10> He can use __attribute__ to enforce noinline: <http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Function-Attributes.html>

Though these flags are gcc specific (works in clang as well). I found it to be tremendously useful in some cases.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Well, note how the article said "naive" memory allocation and even then it was specific to a microbenchmark. I've written very high performing memory allocation routines for multi-threaded scenarios and if you know the types of allocations you will be making you can leave any GC or standard memory allocation routines in the dust!

<comment><USER12> In C or C++ you can even allocate objects on the stack, which has only the cost of increasing the stack pointer (meaning it is very cheap), and also you have precise control over the object's lifetime.

<comment><USER13> Note that by using a technique known as escape analysis, a virtual machine like the JVM can detect that the lifetime of an object is such that it doesn't leave the context of a particular method and then stack-allocate the object implicitly. That may seem like a limited optimization, but when you combine it with method inlining it gets a lot more useful. I believe the optimization is turned off by default in the Sun/Oracle JVM but can be enabled via the -XX:+DoEscapeAnalysis option. For programs that allocate large numbers of short-lived objects, it can make a significant performance difference.

<comment><USER14> Note: If you use scala, escape analysis can be particularly helpful. The "pimp my library" pattern for extending classes involves creating wrapper objects, and these can often be optimized away. [http://www.decodified.com/scala/2010/08/27/scala-rich- wrappi...](http://www.decodified.com/scala/2010/08/27/scala-rich-wrapping- performance.html) has more details

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> The default malloc and free, depending on platform, can be ridiculously slow operations (on the range of 50-100µs). Those numbers are old, they are from some testing I did nearly a decade ago. I'd hope it would have improved right now.

But at that time, I wrote a memory manager which had malloc and free calls which were a magnitude faster, at least ten times.

When you need it to be fast, it can be fast. If you don't want it to be fast, or you have to resort to tricks like preventing the compiler from inlining (wtf?), then you really are doing it wrong.

<comment><USER16> Really? One allocation every 50 to 100ms? That would mean you could only do 10 to 20 memory allocations per second. Now, I know that malloc is often very slow, but that seems unlikely.

Or do you mean 50 to 100 microseconds? That's still horrible, but I could believe it.

<comment><USER15> Oops, yeah, I meant microseconds. Will fix it.

<comment><USER16> Thank you. Malloc can be pretty bad, but we don't want to start any crazy rumors about it. :-)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> A more general discussion about performance between C++ and Java can be found below:

[http://stackoverflow.com/questions/145110/c-performance- vs-j...](http://stackoverflow.com/questions/145110/c-performance-vs-java-c)

<comment><USER12> Found a great comparison between the answers:

<http://zi.fi/shootout/>

It is basically the great programming language shootout at <http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/> redone with different GCC optimization levels.

It is clearly visible where Java Hotspot shines, but in most cases C++ wins by a factor of two. It also mentions a technique how you can do profiling analysis with GCC that makes similar optimizations than Hotspot does.

<comment><USER18> >>It is basically ... [http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/<<](http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/<<);

Wrong.

It is basically the old Doug Bagley programs which were replaced 3 years before the zi.fi/shootout article was posted.

A little history - <http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?GreatComputerLanguageShootout>

In this new decade -

[http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/java.php#faster- progr...](http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/java.php#faster-programs- measurements)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> This reminds me of the discussion many years ago: "In what cases is C faster than Assembler". This sounded as wired as the current question, but it wasn't.

That time C optimizers were getting better and better up to the point they knew "tricks", where you had to be a very, very good assembler programmer to compete. History seems to repeat.

</comment><comment><USER20> From this article, it seems that the answer is: "When the C++ coder is intentionally trying to write slow code."

</comment><comment> alok-g An excerpt from [http://www.azulsystems.com/blog/cliff- click/2009-09-06-java-...](http://www.azulsystems.com/blog/cliff- click/2009-09-06-java-vs-c-performanceagain)

>> "Value Types, such as a 'Complex' type require a full object in Java. This has both code speed and memory overheads."

I have programmed in C# and C++ (never Java), but I found the above to be the key issue why my programs would run significantly slower with C#. Here's the C# language discussion thread where I posted details about my issue:

[http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en/csharplanguage/th...](http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en/csharplanguage/thread/47d10fcb-2d69-451a-bb97-023f1f9113f3)

</comment><comment><USER21> Is the test in the article a valid test? In the Java case the wouldn't the program quit before the garbage collector gets a chance to run? Wouldn't that would be kind of like running the C program without free()?

<comment><USER22> No.

Yes.

Yes.

The benchmark code also re-parses the integer command-line argument on every iteration of the loop.

This benchmark is meaningless.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> Wrong question. It doesn't consider associated drawbacks of the JVM strategy. Think multi-second pauses for full GC scans on real scenarios instead of artificial benchmarks.

<comment><USER24> I assume you're talking about the GC _defaults_. It's not hard to switch it to doing incremental garbage collection, or one of the other numerous strategies available.

<comment><USER23> Incremental GC is yet another JVM trade-off. It trashes the CPU cache all the time and with 100ns slowdown for each cache miss the gains I've seen on real life code are not even remotely close to what's advertised.

And Java objects in real life tend to be big and not very local, from what I've seen.

<comment><USER24> Well, everything is a trade off. It depends what you're running.

I use incgc with very good results compared to the defaults. The defaults usually result in pauses (Not good for something like mibbit), also defaults simply can't keep up with object churn.

So, anecdotally, incgc works wonderfully.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> I guess both Java and OCaml will see that the object can be generated on the stack which makes it much faster.

By using malloc in the C implementation, you force it to be on the heap.

<comment><USER26> Actually, OCaml never generates objects like this on the stack - <USER2> creation is always taken literally. The OCaml compiler is really allocating all those records. It's just that their lifetime is almost zero, so the cost to clean them up is zero (as none get promoted from the minor heap to the major heap). And the cost to create them is almost zero, just a += and a compare.

<comment><USER25> Ah, interesting. Does it also have a GC or some own custom allocation implementation?

Because if it really would use something like malloc, I don't really see how it should be faster than the C version.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> JVM is written in C/C++ so technically Java cannot be faster than C/C++ because everything in Java are (direct / indirect) products of C/C++. :)

</comment><comment><USER28> Java's graphic operations are much faster than some arbitrary C++ library which hasn't been optimised as well.

<comment><USER29> X's Y operations are much faster than some arbitrary Z library which hasn't been optimised as well.

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> Java is never definitively faster than C++, because there's nothing Java does that can't be done in C++, including JIT optimizations.

<comment><USER31> This is not true. The runtime environment for Java is capable of changing the program on the fly in response to dynamically determined bottlenecks. To implement such a system in C would be to re-implement Java.

What you cannot do in C/C++ that you can in Java is respond to program inefficiencies at runtime, with runtime knowledge.

<comment><USER30> You are mistaken. There are JIT libraries for C++. There are also dynamic profiling compilers (intel).

<comment><USER32> Are you talking about profile guided optimization or a new Intel compiler that produces and application that is capable of dynamically rebuilding its own binary code on the fly? Presumably in the event that it can detect a better way to execute a chunk of code.

There are JIT libraries for C++ for building applications which dynamically compile stuff, I'm not aware of any that dynamically recompile the C++ though.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Apple's Statistically Significant Impact on Crime Numbers - <AUTHOR> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/29/nyregion/414-homicides-is-a-record-low-for-new-york.html?_r=0

<comment><USER2> It might be that a new market has been found (so to speak). If stealing Apple stuff gets a good return then it may be that previous targets are not being hit as hard as they would have been, with the extra energy being direct at Apple owners. It would seem to me that the potential gains from mugging someone today would be significantly higher than 10 years ago - phone tablet and laptop are all commonly carried at same time by people in this room with me. Even 5 years ago this wasn't the case.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> From the article,

 _The series of Apple-product thefts has been challenging the police for several years, but this is the first time they have been seen as significantly skewing the crime statistics. "If you just took away the jump in Apple, we'd be down for the year," Mr. Bloomberg's press secretary, Marc La Vorgna, said._

<comment><USER3> I am sure that would not affect the sales of macs at all. Just was wondering if anyone in the professional world of coding and even business use thinkpads anymore.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Wouldn't this imply that people who would otherwise not steal are stealing Apple products? If it were otherwise, the Apple thefts would simply be spread out among other targets.</comment>


AppStore Secrets - <AUTHOR> http://www.pinchmedia.com/appstore-secrets/ <comment><USER2> Wow, a great presentation that really quantifies how insane the appstore economy is. I think we might be bucking one or two trends mentioned in the deck, but for the most part we've had our share of success and failure with various app pricing strategies.

The question I struggle with is whether or not these consumer trends are created due to the AppStore's hit-driven structure, or simply the purchasing & usage habits of a VERY large demographic driving the economy on iTunes. ie: people ages 16-21. look @ the top music/movie charts.

Here's where we are winning. If you're going to do a free app (and you produce paid apps), do your own internal marketing and banner ad system. Don't pay someone else if you don't have significant volume. AdMob ROI is too low for most small shops with small budgets. With our ad system, we're saving a lot of money and it's responsible for roughly 25% of our premium app sales. Plus, we get a 5% commission through linkshare, so we take back profits from Apple's 30%. For the record, we're currently delivering ~2M ad impressions a month.

It doesn't take much to setup your own system. You can do it easily with a Webkit frame + Google AdManager or OpenX. We use AdManager, the interface is easier IMO and GOOG hosts everything (no costs).

</comment><comment><USER3> "Usage time declines by almost a third in the first month after use, stabilizing at just under five minutes"

I would argue that the presentation is biased to those iPhone app developers who are casting a very wide net to people who download/buy apps to satisfy a short-term impulse (e.g. people who download or buy a (cheap) application and lose interest after a couple times.)

I believe there will always be room for quality in the AppStore. For me, quality means that I actually like using the app because it is useful. There are many learn Spanish apps that I bought - that I do not use. Because they weren't as good as I wanted them to be. I don't use them anymore but because I bought them I hate to delete them.

For example, Tweetie's integrated Summize search alone made it well worth the nominal initial cost and I still use it. I'm sure it's supporting the developer well.

I love iPhone Pano for easily taking panoramic photos up to 3581 x 586px (you used to have to manually stitch in Gimp/PS).

My point is quality niche apps will have a better long-term market. If your app only makes $150-$200/month - that's good - you can build a suite of apps. That's what I'm planning on doing once I get past the memory management/graphic design/etc. learning curve.

<comment><USER4> The presentation combines data from a lot of sources, including some of the quality applications you've mentioned. I didn't break out the retention characteristics by decile, but late in the presentation there's a slide on cumulative sessions over time by decile. As you can see from it, there's a small percentage of kick-ass applications people return to disproportionately.

I honestly can't tell you what's best for your business - a series of quick applications that many people will buy on impulse, use once or twice, and uninstall, or a quality application that's lovingly supported, sold at a higher price point, and gains additional users gradually through a growing reputation. Luckily, the AppStore supports both styles.

Greg Yardley Co-Founder, Pinch Media

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Great info.

They say only the top 5% of apps are suitable for the free / advertising model, but I wonder about the apps using the freemium model. i.e. release a free version to get publicity, and charge for the better version. Data on that would be pretty interesting.

</comment><comment><USER6> One take away from this for me is that users don't care about being monitored in their iPhone apps. This is a drastic departure from desktop world where any such thing would be either labeled "spyware" or heavily skewed by self- selection bias.

This is nice as it allows collecting actual usage stats and fold this into product design - a luxury not avaiable to desktop apps. This may be the best thing Apple has achieved with their rigid review process, knowingly or not.

<comment><USER7> _This is a drastic departure from desktop world where any such thing would be either labeled "spyware"_

Do my eyes deceive me or did Netbeans and Eclipse come with "anonymously share usage statistics" these days?

<comment><USER6> Are these opt-in? I know that Visual Studio is opt-in.

Depending on your market, the most desirable customers might be the ones the most likely to turn it off (opt in or opt out). That can skew your data a great deal.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Interesting-- I don't recall agreeing to submit usage statistics to either app developers or third parties--- was that in the app store EULA?

<comment><USER9> You didn't. This is data from people who use Pinch Analytics.

<comment><USER8> Yes, developers put this in their apps, which I've downloaded, and collect and share this data without my consent.

<comment><USER10> The law does not require disclosure of the collection of non personally identifying information. If it did, server logs would be illegal. Pinch analytics performs exactly the same function as Google analytics, and you don't agree to that on any of the websites you visit either.

<comment><USER8> True. I suppose I am conditioned to expect, on downloaded apps, a little dialog box asking if I'm OK with sharing anonymous usage information.

I think the standard is slightly different with desktop apps (with the spectre of 'spyware' to be avoided)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> so, it looks like from slide 9 it takes 20k downloads in a 24 hour window to get into the top 25, so lets say then maybe ~50k to get into the top 10.

I wonder if the returns from being on that list pretty much guaranteed to get you more than 50k downloads?

If so would it make sense to essentially buy your way into the top 10 (either with advertising or literally "we'll pay you 2 dollars to install this 1 dollar app in the next 24 hours") and then make money on your way down?

<comment><USER4> Well, keep in mind that those are the figures for free applications. The barrier for paid applications is a lot less - about a tenth.

I've seen application developers experiment with this approach, generally using in-application advertising, but the conversion rates aren't compelling - and if you fail to get ranked, then you've blown a lot of money. I'd only try it in conjunction with a lot of simultaneous free press, working whatever opt- in e-mail list you've built up for your app business, etc. And I'd stop for a bit when you get onto the top 100 and let the natural benefits of just being on that list carry your application higher.

Greg Yardley Co-Founder, Pinch Media

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> That presentation is so good I had to log in to upvote it.</comment>