Show HN: A spectrogram app in less than 100 lines of HTML and JavaScript - <AUTHOR> https://simplespectrogram.app <comment><AUTHOR> Hi HN, creator here. Lately I've been enjoying learning about the Web Audio API and wanted to apply it. I wanted a quick debugging tool to inspect the sounds I was synthesizing and ended up creating this. It's vanilla JS, so just view source to check it out.

Things I've ended up enjoying with it:

\- Hum, whistle, and sing my favorite tunes and compare the images

\- Take it on a nature walk and look at bird calls

\- Try to make sounds to draw a specific picture or shape

How it works:

On load, the app requests microphone access, and connects that audio stream to a WebAudio AnalyzerNode. The AnalyzerNode offers a fast fourier transform that is called repeatedly using requestAnimationFrame. For each frame, the entire contents of the canvas are shifted left by 1 virtual pixel, and the current fourier frequency bins are plotted in the rightmost column.

Limitations:

\- There are 1024 frequency bins, compared to roughly 20,000 hertz hearing range, so the resolution is pretty good but not perfect as each dot represents a range of ~20 hertz.

\- Unfortunately doesn't work in iOS Firefox or Chrome; Apple won't offer microphone access via getUserMedia to 3rd party browsers.

\- It has a PWA manifest; Android users should be able to add to homescreen. iOS users still can't since getUserMedia is restricted in iOS PWAs

</comment><comment><USER2> Nice work, I like the simplicity & loc count.

Here's another example I found that I always liked (w/source link) but definitely more complex.

[https://musiclab.chromeexperiments.com/Spectrogram/](https://musiclab.chromeexperiments.com/Spectrogram/)

[https://github.com/googlecreativelab/chrome-music- lab/tree/m...](https://github.com/googlecreativelab/chrome-music- lab/tree/master/spectrogram)

<comment><AUTHOR> I really like this one! Haven't read the source yet. 1.77mb page size though - I think for mobile it can be better.

<comment><USER2> Definitely. I've rewritten the source personally in detail just to understand how it was done, (I was also learning the WebAudio APIs). Once you get beyond the client boilerplate and samples it's not too bad or complicated.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> I see yours and I raise mine :P

[https://aguaviva.github.io/GuitarTuner/GuitarTuner.html](https://aguaviva.github.io/GuitarTuner/GuitarTuner.html)

Each bar is correspond to each key in a piano. The red vertical lines are the notes of a guitar played open string.

You can use this to tune your instruments and to understand its harmonics too.

<comment><AUTHOR> You're on :)

<comment><USER3> :) Feel free to use my tech and add improvements (my visuals are a bit spartan!)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Doesn't work on iOS, and provides no useful information on the page as to what it is supposed to be doing.

<comment><AUTHOR> Sorry you're having trouble. Are you using iOS Safari? 3rd party browsers unfortunately aren't supported on iOS.

<comment><USER5> The same problem, using Safari, tap on link and nothing happened.

<comment><AUTHOR> You may need to grant microphone access in Settings-->Safari on iOS as well. Or your version of iOS may be older.

<comment><USER6> Can your code detect this case and at least show a warning? I realize it's extra LoCs, but sitting here and tapping the damn phone with no feedback is not much fun :)

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes it can - I added error handling. Thanks for the feedback, the extra lines are worth it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Neat. I like how whistling produces a narrow band. Could make a flappy bird game from whistling!

<comment><AUTHOR> Fun idea, I'll consider adding an extra surprise..</comment></comment>


My girlfriend cooks lunch for everybody in my startup, she made a blog about it. - <AUTHOR> http://thefoodforstartups.com/

<comment><USER2> Why can't I signup to pay for this service? My startup is in the area, I would LOVE to be able to pay "fiambreras style" and go pickup food every few days for my team. I'm sure it might get to be a hassle if there are too many people, but maybe just a few? What about a Grubwithus section where you invite others in the community for lunch ($20 /pp - cover the costs of food, profit, and a donation to Blimp?) and talk food or startups? What about sponsored meals by other startups? (I'll commit to sponsoring food for 4-6 one of the days a month)....

Anywho, LOVE this idea - thanks for letting us know about it - this way I'll know what to buy in the supermarket next time I want to eat something different than "Taco Rolls", ramen noodles, and re-heated pork leftovers from Xmas :)

<comment><USER3> It looks like this would be on the way to reinventing the Indian phenomenon of Dabawalla (basically a city wide infrastructure to deliver home cooked lunches to offices):

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dabbawala>

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> This is way better than Ramen, pepperoni pizza and Mountain Dew. Bootstrapping never looked so good.

<comment><AUTHOR> Indeed! We used to spend $100+ on crappy junk food a week. No we get to have delicious home cooked meal.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I don't see the "Order Delivery" button.

</comment><comment><USER6> What an awesome girlfriend. I wish all the luck for you guys with Blimp :)

<comment><AUTHOR> Yup! She's the best! Thank you so much!

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Nice dude, my wife cooks for the both of us while we work on bootstrapping our startup. Nothing like a healthy, lovingly made meal.

<comment><AUTHOR> You got that right! Eating right really helps us keep focused and energized!

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Marry her.

<comment><AUTHOR> Of course I will!

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> you should probably give us some tips on how you landed an awesome catch of a girlfriend like that ;P

</comment><comment><USER10> beautiful, man..just beautiful! best of luck to both of you!

</comment><comment><USER11> mmm...hiring? ;)

</comment><comment><USER12> Today we had enchiladas! EPIC!</comment>


We Will Burn the System Down – Hawk Newsome – BLM - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncgUmaG4sj8 <comment><AUTHOR> Everyone needs to see this

<comment><USER2> Just activated your sleeper account, huh? How many of these do you have?</comment></comment>


4chan users triangulate the location of LeBouf's Flag - <AUTHOR> http://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/4chan-users-find-the-secret-location-of-shia-leboufs-he-will-not-divide-us-by-using-flight-patterns-and-star-maps-steal-it-and-replace-it-with-a-make-america-great-again-hat/ <comment><USER2> I liked this thread better yesterday: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13845657](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13845657)

</comment><comment><USER3> Much better link [http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-10/weaponized- autism-s...](http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-10/weaponized-autism- stupid-shia-labeouf-livestreams-hwndu-flag-remote-tennessee-field-)

</comment><comment><USER4> I can understand why you didn't link directly to the Heat Street article. But as it was lifted pretty much wholesale, you should probably have just linked the source.

[https://heatst.com/tech/he-will-not-divide-us-livestream- pla...](https://heatst.com/tech/he-will-not-divide-us-livestream-placed-in- middle-of-nowhere-but-4chan-still-found-way-to-troll-it/)

Not least because the Barstool Sports one is missing that final verification image of the "He Will Not Divide Us" flag with a timestamped /pol/ post-it.

<comment><USER5> >I can understand why you didn't link directly to the Heat Street article

I've never heard of Heat Street before, why wouldn't you directly link to them?

<comment><USER4> Right now on the front page, I'm seeing:

>"Battle of the Shirtless Leaders: Justin Trudeau v. Vladimir Putin - It's a global game of: 'Who's hotter?'"

>"Vatican Reeling As Priests Suspected of Gay Orgies and Visiting Swingers' Sites - Lurid claims against men of the cloth who are supposed to be celibate."

>"Wall Street Bro Caught 'Humping' Fearless Girl Statue - Proof sexism is alive and well?"

I think they're also the "outlet" that "broke" the story about "Obama tapping Trump's phones."

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Clever. A coup. But really, big deal. This is an art project about perseverance, right? Just put a static background behind the flag and try again. Unless maybe He already divided them.

<comment><USER7> Yeah if anything /pol/ is driving the success of it as a catalyst for thought, they're keeping it relevant and worthwhile. Idk much about Shia's intentions but never underestimate an artist's awareness of how such things can play out.

<comment><USER8> I dunno, he seems pretty unhinged - just look at that photo of him at the diner. Apparently he's also been spotted prowling around at all hours of the night carrying a baseball bat, someone spotted him with their drone.</comment></comment></comment>


Sneak Peek of My 3d Scheme Game (and request for support) - <AUTHOR> http://jlongster.com/blog/2010/02/03/iphone-game-update/

<comment><AUTHOR> What I'm most interested is people's experience with selling successful iPhone apps. What have you done to gain more exposure? My marketing plan essentially includes creating a cool one-page website that is simplistic and sells the game with videos/screenshots (I've already a hired a designer to design it). Also to talk about it on twitter/facebook/reddit/HN/etc. Also to get my friends and a few local businesses to talk about it. Maybe contact some companies like Appular to see if they'll support it. I fear that none of this, except maybe the last one, has any chance of getting me wide exposure. Are there good app review websites I should submit it to? What else would be good?

<comment><USER2> For me, I looked at the market in July 2008 and saw an opportunity in a darts game of all things. I'm not an avid darts player but I had just installed a dart board in my basement a few weeks prior to the start of the project.

My thought was something like this:

"I see no good darts games for the iPhone. I bet you I can create one and get all those 20-something guys from the UK to download a copy"

And that basically worked. Darts went #1 in the UK in December 2008 and in the US shortly thereafter.

Part of the answer for me was to just make a good app with good gameplay mechanics and 3D graphics that didn't look like a toy, and hope that my concepts of the marketplace were right.

The app going #1 got me a lot of exposure, enough to leave Yahoo and work on iPhone consulting and secret big projects (way too big -- I need to ship the thing already).

The ad revenue (I hate ads and am very sorry I have to put them in the app) also helps _a great deal_ to help fund my foray into self-startup mode.

For the curious, the app has 40K games played daily, about 10K downloads a day, and about 12MM downloads since day 1 in October 2008.

<http://fictorial.com/darts/>

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> One thing you could try is sending review copies to game journalists on the web - I'm not sure which ones are best for iPhone or mobile games, but these days most have at least a passing interest. If you can cold-email some of the reviewers with some kind redemption code for the game, and if you can sell the premise to them in a couple of lines (the good sites probably get a LOT of submissions like this, you need to grab their attention QUICK), you might be able to convince them to post a review or at least a news item.

</comment><comment><USER4> I like that it is written in Gambit-C Scheme, which has been one of my weapons of choice when I want to code in a high level language and produce small, fast, standalone executables. As of last year, Marc made it very easy to compile and link executables, and portable across OS X, Windows, Linux (just do a rebuild on each platform). Recommended!

<comment><USER4> BTW, I wrote an article for DevX last year on Gambit-C (pardon the self-plug): <http://www.devx.com/opensource/Article/42778/1763/>

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I thought you could only write iPhone apps in Objective-C.

<comment><USER6> Gambit is a Scheme-to-C compiler; Objective-C is a superset of C. Hence all the iPhone sees is a regular subset of Objective-C.

[http://jlongster.com/blog/2009/06/17/write-apps-iphone- schem...](http://jlongster.com/blog/2009/06/17/write-apps-iphone-scheme/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> sorry to sound snarky (i think scheme is awesome as well), but you probably shouldn't advertise this as a "scheme game", since your potential audience probably doesn't care what technologies you use to write the game. i'd suggest to focus on your target demographic and focus on pitching it to them.

<comment><AUTHOR> You're totally right. The audience for my personal blog though is techy people, and I'm advertising it as a Scheme game to get some attention from the tech crowd. However, when I actually publish the game, I will dedicate a website to the game and market the heck out of it to the casual consumer never mentioning Scheme.

<comment><USER8> I think it would still be worthwhile to add a note in the game and on the game's website saying that it was made with Gambit Scheme. Somewhere in the credits, or copyright info, or a similar place.

<comment><AUTHOR> I could do that. It might still be good for any tech company looking at my app. We'll see.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Hah, so there _is_ a secret cow level after all!</comment>


Free Country-To-IP Lists (IPv4 and IPv6): Need Testers - <AUTHOR> http://www.eggplant.pro/ip-by-country.php <comment><AUTHOR> Decided to start compiling my own country lists directly from RIR data. Wanted to get some feedback on how well this stacks up to what others are using.</comment>


What adolescents think of mindfulness in schools - <AUTHOR> https://psyche.co/ideas/its-time-to-hear-what-adolescents-think-of-mindfulness-in-schools <comment><USER2> I've seen it suggested in other articles here before that mindfulness programs for employees are often a way for employers to try and get their staff to be more accepting of crappy conditions, or unpleasant, meaningless or unethical work.

It sounds to me like the same kind of thing might also apply in schools.

I'm sure the school teachers and administrators mean well. I'm sure they don't consciously realise what a nightmare their institutions have become for many of the students in their care. Even if they do realise, they didn't choose for it to be that way.

The sad fact is that modern life has become a horrible nightmare for many people, grownups and kids alike. Mindfulness has become a popular attempt to paper over the problems, but in truth, many people who are having coping problems or exhibiting "mental illness" are really having understandable reactions to the dysfunction they're sensing in the world.

To be clear: I'm in no way averse to emotional wellbeing techniques that are effective and that increase the agency of participants. I've gone very deep on this kind of work in my own life, and have benefited greatly.

But I think the outcomes, and indeed the intentions, of mainstream mindfulness programs are quite different to this, and are sadly far more focused on maintaining the status quo for institutions and modern mainstream society.

<comment><USER3> > I've seen it suggested in other articles here before that mindfulness > programs for employees are often a way for employers to try and get their > staff to be more accepting of crappy conditions, or unpleasant, meaningless > or unethical work.

I'm not sure I buy this. I suppose it's true that being better able to tolerate unpleasant situations does mean you might put up with them for longer. And _while meditating_ , yes, the goal is to not react to things you're feeling.

But for me, a big benefit of mindfulness is more clarity on where my emotions are coming from. I'd sometimes feel tense, or upset, or nervous, but couldn't even really _notice_ I was feeling that way, let alone why I was feeling that way.

I think clarity there generally helps people change their conditions more than it urges them to just accept them.

<comment><USER2> > But for me, a big benefit of mindfulness is more clarity on where my > emotions are coming from

That's what I'd say about the emotional work I do, so I'm not criticising that kind of work if that is the actual outcome, and if it leads to more authentic perception of one's surroundings and increased ability to make decisions that are best for one's self and the world long-term.

I'm just questioning whether that really is the outcome or indeed the intention for programs branded as "mindfulness" in workplaces, schools, etc.

<comment><USER4> My understanding is that there is an actual definition and research of mindfulness that can be used to evaluate and I guess even benchmark whether a given program actually is using the methods as intended?

<comment><USER2> Can you point to any links to details of what you mean?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> As my grandmother used to say, _you can 't fool dogs and children_.

>> As Jack, a 13-year-old student at a school in a post-industrial town in the UK, explained: 'They're trying to teach us to choose what we want but then not letting us choose anything at all.'

Students are very quick to see through their teachers' bullshit as they have years of practice by the time they are adolescents.

The current convention seems to be that if students can't life-hack their school then there must be something wrong with them. That lack of self- reflection on the part of teachers and schools is telling, and probably a big reason for student anxiety in the first place.

<comment><USER6> Well you need to cut them some slack.

Schools, teachers and parents are in a very difficult position these days because of how fast things are changing. They are constantly overloaded with info about what's good for the kid. Even developmental psychologists,pedagogy experts and edu depts get overloaded and feel pressure to pass opinions on everything under the sun without serious evaluation. Learning takes Time. So evaluation of any method takes time. But the pressure to try X Y or Z builds up so quickly that anyone pushing back can easily be labeled a dinosaur and kicked out the room.

And its all happening in the useless attention arms race type environment the tech sector has created where what and who gets propped up depends on whose TED talk got more views, how much time they self promote, and 'what can scale faster'.

Such an environment will keep producing a whole lot of failed experiments.

<comment><USER7> All this bearing in mind we haven't really seen any sustainable improvement in test scores in the last ~50 years. What is even the point of having an education arms race while the same people groups average pretty much the same aptitude for the tests? SAT scores for language have worsened while math has remained fairly consistent since the 70s, which suggests to me that those scores are loosely (if at all) related to educational strategy.

I may not have a popular opinion, but I think our focus should be more on supporting families to raise their children instead of what amounts in my mind to free day care, especially for children 10 and under.

<comment><USER8> Wait, drop out rates are down. People are more likely to finish education then they used 50 years ago. Maybe the top who goes to college did not raised up that much, but average if you include low performers did.

<comment><USER7> I haven't seen that data, and it is a fair point. Still, I would argue that at least part of that shift is a result of changes in employability. When my parents were in school, a college degree was not yet considered a pre- requisite for so many people who are entering the work force. In fact, neither of my parents had a degree, yet we were able to live comfortably on just my father's income. And for those who still carry that view, the situation is much worse today than it was then.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> _> In many programmes, students learn that emotions such as anger, anxiety and fear stem from reactions in a brain region called the amygdala. They are taught that mindfulness helps them identify and manage these emotions by activating the prefrontal cortex, the part of the brain associated with behavioural regulation. In doing so, students are taught that mindfulness creates space in which we can 'choose our response' as opposed to reacting or lashing out. In the words of one programme, mindfulness gives us 'the freedom to choose'._

 _> These might sound like reasonable claims, but they imply a dichotomy between emotions and reason, and the superiority of 'rational' responses to distress. This idea derives not from traditional mindfulness but from liberal Western ideals. Historically, these ideals have served to undermine oppressed groups, as anger and resistance is perceived as irrational._

The article's commentary here seems out-of-touch with most mindfulness instruction I've experienced. It's usually emphasized to notice things in as non-judgmental a way as possible; you're definitely not encouraged to label anger or any other emotion as "irrational".

Mindfulness does give you the freedom to choose. It wouldn't be freedom to choose if the choice was always to ignore anger: sometimes anger is useful, other times it isn't; mindfulness helps you notice that and act accordingly.

<comment><USER9> You can see the same misconceptions when people expect mindful meditation to always:

\- relax them

\- make them happy

\- make them less emotional

But with practice I learned that some sessions are extremely emotional, full of stress or sorrow. It's not uncommon to feel pain, distress or to cry deeply during intense meditation retreats.

The process improves one existence by making us live those aspects of our life better. Not by taking them away.

Now of course, on the long run, it will make people more relaxed, happier, etc. Making you fitter to live with yourself.

But not by removing, ignoring or suppressing suffering.

It's still here. It will always be here. That's the point of meditating.

Mindfulness forces us to observe it as it is. You see your contradictions, your scars and your urges. You see your masks, conditioning and reflexes.

If anything, it removes dichotomy. Not add to it.

In fact, from what I witnessed, meditation tends to make people remove layers in general. I rarely hear meditators talking about adding ones.

And mindfulness is certainly not emotions vs reason.

It has nothing to do with either.

Emotions and reason are here. You observe them, and yourself using them. But the fact you use them is not part of the technique. It's just a part of you, and like all parts of you, you are invited to observe it.

Like everybody, when I started years ago, I confused "be detached" with "don't feel", "label it unimportant", "try to relax". That's not it.

What you feel or the label you use are just not part of the teaching. They don't matter at all (for the practice). What matters is that you observe it.

<comment> a-nikolaev Thank you, this is the most compelling argument for meditation I've ever seen.

Don't want to sound too ignorant (although I might be), but more often than not I encounter much simpler interpretations of meditation and its goals that (to me) sound more like instructions to wall off rather than to find peace with yourself. They also sometimes come with a tacit shaming of strong emotions, but as the saying goes: "when a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure". I think that pushing for no strong emotions at all (at least on the surface) does promote walling off rather than actually understanding yourself better, which sometimes requires you to be out of balance. Like in math, always going up can lead you to a local maximum only, and to reach a global maximum you have to walk downhill once in a while.

<comment><USER9> > more often than not I encounter much simpler interpretations of meditation > and its goals that (to me) sound more like instructions to wall off rather > than to find peace with yourself.

I've notice this at several occasions.

It is not specific to meditation though.

Agile software development, as practiced behind corporate walls, is very different what Beck and Schwaber talked about in the 90'.

Thanks to MMA, we know now that many modern martial art teachings are not practical from a self-defense perspective.

Many may claim they follow the ideal of the same famous religious figure, and confronted with each others, will end up with opposite opinions on how to live one life.

As soon as something become mainstream, it is bound to be adapted into different variations of what it was initially intended. Yet we keep the same name for it.

For what I know, what I'm practicing is also a variation of a variation of a variation of something.

<comment><USER10> > Thanks to MMA, we know now that many modern martial art teachings are not > practical from a self-defense perspective.

I don't disagree with the general point that there are martial art schools that do not teach effective self defense - but I'm not sure how MMA figures in to it.

Self defense is about situational awareness, coping with multiple attackers, probably armed. Often you may have a way of de-escalating the situation (eg: give them your wallet).

I suppose in the instance of a single un-armed rapist (often the case when the victim knows the attacker) MMA has increased the focus on grappling (ie: judu/jujutsu/bjj and various wrestling techniques).

I'm not sure what else the popularity of MMA has thought us about self defense.

Now, if your talking about ring fighting with a particular ruleset, one on one, with a referee... That might be something else.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> This feels very much like mindfulness is trying to be used as a bandaid to cover the (metaphorical) sucking chest wound of student mental health. Schools can be absolutely miserable places for many students. Bullying is rampant, both from students and staff, students are forced to be there, and have very little choice in how to spend their days. If we want to improve mental health in young people, look closely at how we run schools. Reduce class sizes, give students self determination. These aren't easy steps though.

<comment><USER12> While I agree with your points, I'd reframe them slightly: it's a sucking chest wound of teenage mental health.

Schools are having to deal with young people who come to them with problems from outside. Schools can make them better or worse, but that's loading a responsibility onto schools way beyond education. The fact that we are even having to consider non-traditional subjects/activities like mindfulness as a treatment to help kids get through the day, rather than to help prepare them for adult life, is a huge red flag.

We can look closely at how we run schools, but where is the scrutiny on parenting? There is a ton of assessment of teachers and metrics on school performance (whether they are a good thing or not in improving outcomes is a different matter). Serious problems in the home are generally picked up by social services – and you could say that they function as a bandaid to cover the sucking chest wound of adult mental health - but straightforward poor parenting is far more widespread, how do we fix that?

If we want to improve mental health in young people we need to look closely at how we run society. Schools could help, but only if they were adequately funded for everything they are being expected to deliver.

<comment><USER13> Schools are in loco parentis. Schools are parents. That's what day care is -- part time parenting. They should do their part, with appropriate staff and resources. Parents at home should be supported as well. But this all costs money that is being diverted to the military industrial complex and other graft.

<comment><USER12> No, schools are not parents. Acting in loco parentis means acting in the place of the parent while they aren't there, not becoming the parent. It places a duty of care to safeguard the child and act in its best interests. It does not mean raising the child. It is the misguided attitude of some parents that somehow the school is responsible for parenting children that is probably half the problem.

And yes, parents should have support. This used to come from much stronger, multigenerational family units. Where that isn't the case, few would consider attending parenting classes even if they were available. But don't get me wrong, I don't think it's necessarily just about that, as I said originally, I think adult mental wellbeing is a bigger problem than is generally recognised. Anxiety, aggression, apathy, these transfer from the parent to the child.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I've been through so many educational fads, in my time as a teacher, that it's difficult not to be cynical.

When I first started teaching it was all about Visual, Auditory and Kinaesthetic learners. Then brain gyms, then multiple intelligences, then personality typing. To be honest, I've lost track of the number of new strategies that I've had CPD for in those first few days back at school every September.

Mindfulness was just starting to creep in when I quit the formal education game. I'd bet that it'll be gone within five years, replaced with some new and shiny fad.

</comment><comment><USER15> I strongly agree with this.

Any mindfulness for children or adults must be just offering. You should't make it regular thing that everyone must attend. You can't motivate mindfulness from the outside.

Some people just have very bad reactions to mindfulness even if they try it voluntarily. It may be ongoing psychological issue or something else. People seem more or less similar on the outside, but they have very different experiences when they turn their mind inwards.

<comment><USER16> > Some people just have very bad reactions to mindfulness even if they try it > voluntarily.

This is interesting. Can you share any particular examples?

<comment><USER17> One example in the article was trauma, which seems reasonable. Home situations for children vary wildly and I wouldn't expect children to be mentally equipped if they're exposed to abuse, bereavement, etc. Teaching them to virtually bottle up their emotions is something I'd expect to end badly sooner or later.

<comment><USER13> No one is talking about bottling up emotions.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> > _Within educational contexts, being well-behaved is seen as rational and > 'good', while resistance to authority is seen as irrational or 'bad'. Since > mindfulness encourages young people to be calm, complacent and attentive, it > can promote these moral hierarchies: of good or bad behaviour, and hence, > well-behaved or naughty students._

This seems to me much more like a problem with typical "educational contexts" than with mindfulness. In my experience, you try and be more mindful of your emotions so you can make better (perhaps more efficient) decisions and changes in your life in response to those emotions. And that naturally conflicts with environments where the expectations are very rigid and more or less set in stone e.g. where there's a clear "authority" (like a teacher) in control and very precise boundaries about what kind of behavior is acceptable.

> _As Kelly, 13, explained: I really hated it when I had to close my eyes … I > felt really uncomfortable because there were people in the group that I > didn't trust … Some of the practices did help me but it would be better if > you could choose to do it with people you like._

Again, I think this is much more a problem with the typical school environment than with mindfulness. What does it say that a child doesn't feel comfortable simply closing their eyes momentarily in some environment? Not good things if you ask me. Frankly, I've often thought it's cruel and unusual to place large numbers of children together for large periods of time as is done in a public school setting. Children can be ruthless when they bully each other and readily succumb to their worst instincts.

<comment><USER19> The fact that someone doesn't feel comfortable about something doesn't mean that their feelings are warranted. When dealing with anxiety disorders or phobias, the last thing experts recommend is avoidance of that which causes anxiety. In fact, exposure therapy helps drastically with it.

<comment><USER20> Ok, how does exposure therapy actually work?

Wiki sez: "Exposure therapy is based on the principle of respondent conditioning often termed Pavlovian extinction.[16] The exposure therapist identifies the cognitions, emotions and physiological arousal that accompany a fear-inducing stimulus and then tries to break the pattern of escape that maintains the fear. This is done by exposing the patient to progressively stronger fear-inducing stimuli.[17] Fear is minimized at each of a series of steadily escalating steps or challenges (a hierarchy), which can be explicit ("static") or implicit ("dynamic" — see Method of Factors) until the fear is finally gone.[18] The patient is able to terminate the procedure at any time."

That is, to my interpretation, the idea is to expose the patient to the scary stimulus under conditions that are kept as nice, safe, and comfortable as possible, so that the Pavlovian part of their brain will learn to stop associating the stimulus with fear.

This is entirely different from "keep throwing them into the feared situation, against their will and without any particular effort to make it more safe or pleasant".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> mindfulness and meditation seems to be all the rage in recent years but looking at the physical state of many students these days and the stated goal:

> _" The goal is to help them develop resilience, improve their attention and > self-regulation, and prevent everyday stress spiralling into major > psychological problems. "_

I'd maybe recommend greatly expanding physical exercise and team sports because not only does it address many of the points above it also will reduce obesity and balance out general inactivity. Physical education seems to be severely neglected. Both quality and quantity.

<comment><USER22> Were you one of the kids who was good at sports? I remember school PE as being horrible for mental health. Anyone awkward, uncoordinated, unpopular, unhappy with their body, or just totally uninterested in competitive sports spent those lessons being ignored at best, shouted at at worst. Funny how in primary school we all happily ran about and played together at lunchtime, but enforced sports days and team sports made it very clear who was "good" and who was "bad", and that those of us who were bad should just stay out of the way and not inconvenience our teammates. COMPETITIVE sports are obviously going to make those at the bottom miserable and foster resentment towards them: that's kind of the point.

e: oh, and let's not forget the horrifying combinations of changing rooms, showers and puberty... and for those of us with glasses there was a whole extra dimension of being forced to swim or dodge flying balls in the rain while literally semi-blind...!

<comment><USER23> PE is a bad example case. Infrequent, with random team assignments, playing random new sports and activities each class is obviously and definitely skewed towards those who are predisposed to coordination and teamwork traits.

What the parent, and I in another comment are talking about is team sports with the same team, playing the same sport on a regular basis.

Not many people are good at "red scooter dodge chicken" after 5 minutes of it. But playing the same thing day in, day out for a while (practice) makes you better at it. You start noticing you're improving, your teammates may not out you in the starting rotation, but they're going to start bonding with you because of proximity and the shared feeling of progress.

You don't need to have the same competitive zeal as the top performers, but you need to want to be part of the group.

I never saw anyone get ostracized in a team unless they continually refused to be part of it.

<comment><USER22> So, what are you going to do with the kids who don't want to be a part of it and will simply never enjoy the experience of whiffing a ball every time? (Yes, it really is possible not to improve - see the other commenter who is on the spectrum, or anyone with dyspraxia, etc). Will you just say they deserve what they get? We're presumably still talking about a situation where they're forced to take part.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> It's the exact same reason why businesses have been pushing mindfulness at work as well. They don't want to actually reduce stress or solve the problems workers are facing; they'd rather try and teach them to not break as fast while under stress.

This isn't to discount the benefits of being mindful or meditating for people. But you should be very wary when someone's trying to sell you on it because usually there's a greater reason for it.

<comment><USER25> Whatever the intent, or the side effects, mindfulness is still beneficial for individuals. Skepticism is healthy, but sometimes we need to place more weight on first-order effects, otherwise we're paralyzed obsessing over which and how bad guys will benefit from the things that benefit us.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> If it never helps in any scenarios, bin it.

If it helps in some scenarios then what else can be done in addition to this?

I see a gaping flaw in the "this doesn't work in these cases therefore tear it all down" logic.

Absolutely replace it if something better comes along but the answer can't be go back to square one because its not perfect.

</comment><comment><USER27> The people pushing this practice and teaching it in schools are clearly not qualified to do so. The terms "meditation" and "mindfulness" are too vague and tied to pop-psychology / spiritual overtones to be useful.

These practices are one thing, concentration practice. That's it. It's not about feelings or anxiety or any of the crap that seems to be peddled along side this practice.

You sit, focus on something that's always there (the breath) and then try to maintain that focus/awareness in the face of constant distractors.

Concentration practice strengthens concentration. You may or may not employ that concentration, you may or may not _use it_ to be aware of distractors in daily life, you may or may not be able to use that awareness to avoid fixating on stressful thoughts. That's all secondary.

If you do arm curls you will strengthen your biceps which are useful in many motions, but don't pretend that arm curls are "defense practice" or "box lifting practice." Don't confuse the potential applications with the specific effect of the practice.

Concentration practice builds the circuits that allow for broad inhibition of activity throughout the brain mediated by the prefrontal cortex.

Concentration practice is hugely valuable IMO and, for me, can take what would be a stressful unproductive day and make it productive and stable.

I fully support having concentration practice as part of a curriculum but it sounds like the way it's being taught is harmful.

</comment><comment><USER28> > students are taught that mindfulness creates space in which we can 'choose > our response' as opposed to reacting or lashing out. [...] These might sound > like reasonable claims, but they imply a dichotomy between emotions and > reason, and the superiority of 'rational' responses to distress. [...] > Historically, these ideals have served to undermine oppressed groups, as > anger and resistance is perceived as irrational.

Sometimes anger and resistance is rational, sometimes it's not. If mindfulness gives you the "mental space" to decide whether you are right to be angry, that's a good thing, and it _absolutely is_ superior to purely acting emotionally.

I'm frankly struggling to see how anyone could think that modulating your emotions with reason is a bad idea.

<comment><USER22> Possibly because constantly thinking "am I right to feel this way? How should I respond?" also describes the thinking patterns of anxious/autistic people. 'Normal' people generally just feel and act. They aren't constantly modulating themselves. Maybe that means they make some suboptimal choices, but they also aren't wasting time and making themselves feel bad by internally interrogating themselves non-stop.

<comment><USER28> Anxious people can't help negative thought patterns. They happen despite their desires. That's the complete opposite of this case, so I'm not sure that's it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> Placebo ritalin.

It sounds like they didn't teach the parents, teachers, and school administrators first.

Meditation is a very valuable thing to learn but this is not the way to learn it. To me it seems like these kids are being subjected to a fad.

To the extent that it works for them (to become more mindful) it will only throw the intrinsic bullshit of the school system into stark relief, as the quotes from the kids indicate.

I'm going to repeat myself, because I didn't see it mentioned in the article: if the parents, teachers, and school admin staff didn't go through a year or two of "mindfulness" themselves before pushing it on their kids then this is foolish.

</comment><comment><USER30> It time to let kids be kids and kids are relaxed when playing outside, with friends, getting dirty. Adults are as well, but we force ourselves into a more structured live. Thus we need mindfullness. But maybe we also need to play outside, in nature, with others, getting dirty.

</comment><comment><USER31> Forcing someone to sit and be mindful is incredibly offensive to the idea of mindfulness. Goes to show that whatever good thing mandatory schooling touches, it perverts or corrupts. They should just stick to sciences.

<comment><USER25> Children need guidance. Their whims are least likely of all to lead them to choose long-term beneficial behaviors.

<comment><USER31> You don't have to tell me that, I have a 12 year old.

Yet often times as a father I see that guidance is best achieved by reasoning, not compulsion. Compulsion breeds long term resistance and aversion, which can damage relationships with certain topics and activities way more than whatever short term benefit was achieved by it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> From the article, I wonder just who these mindfulness teachers are? I had to spend hundreds of hours of practice and multiple teachers to unlock a few 'treasures' of meditation... and that was with teachers who weren't laying a thick amount of judge mental indoctrination.

I absolutely believe the kid's responses to the program, and I'm afraid this experience will turn them off for life, like so many do with a bad year of math. Nevertheless, I think exposing kids to mindfulness is worthwhile.

</comment><comment><USER33> They have turned what is meant to let you know yourself into something to bury yourself deeper out of sight

</comment><comment><USER34> education should not be made cost efficient by means of having one teacher specialized in a grade per every 30+ students.

It shold be more personal with far less students per teacher; but this is too costly and for some reason it doesn't seem like anyone is willing to pay for this premium

</comment><comment><USER13> Weird article. It's thesis is that kids have some problems that mindfulness doesn't solve. Like, OK, that's obvious. Those problems should be addressed.

Yet another case of pitting good things against each other by denying appropriate funding.

</comment><comment><USER35> Mindfulness is primarily Zen Buddhism stripped of the appearance of religion. As much as I encourage anyone to try either traditional Zen or Mindfulness, pushing it on someone who doesn't want it is absurd.

<comment><USER36> Mindfulness is a tool which various schools of Buddhism emphasize to a greater or lesser degree.

Second part I agree with. Mindfulness practice requires a pretty diligent application of intention. I don't think it can work as another subject at school or an ad hoc therapy.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> Good read, glad to hear that mindfulness is being introduced to humans at an earlier age.

Apparently that's not enough for the author though?

Like anything, it will never be useful for 100% of everyone regardless of age or place in time.

</comment><comment><USER38> Hah, it was only a matter of time.

See this thread - [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21656380](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21656380)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> I think mindfulness and meditation are useful for some people. It's important to remember it doesn't work for everyone, and there's a small risk of harm for a few people.

<comment><USER39> I'm interested to know if you can cite specific evidence for that? I've heard that some certain yoga practices (i.e. traditional yoga. Not the westernized kind where you do stretches and talk about positive energy) can be harmful especially to beginners (e.g. kundalini), but that's not what's being discussed here.

Mindfulness just means being aware and non-reactive. All humans experiences mindfulness. Any time we choose to go against our initial impulses is a moment of expressing mindfulness. Mindfulness meditation simply strengthens and expands on that so it holds up under greater pressure and for greater periods of time. It's nothing mystical or psychedelic.

<comment><AUTHOR> Research into mindfulness emphasises the benefits, but tends to minimise the harm. Some research fails to mention any risk at all. This makes it hard to devise a mindfulness program that doesn't cause harm.

Mindfulness in schools is applied to the entire school population.

Mindfulness in schools is usually delivered by teachers, and not trained therapists or psychologists.

The combination of taking the entire population, including children at higher risk of harm, and not understanding how that harm can be caused, and using people with minimal training to provide the programme, means that some people get harmed.

[https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/01410768166441...](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0141076816644113)

[https://www.brown.edu/research/labs/britton/sites/britton- la...](https://www.brown.edu/research/labs/britton/sites/britton- lab/files/images/Britton_2019_Can%20mindfulness%20be%20too%20much%20of%20a%20good%20thing.pdf)

[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S027273581...](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272735818301272)

> Mindfulness just means being aware and non-reactive

Mary is a 10 year old girl. She is raped once a week by her step-father. You can see how being "aware" and "non-reactive" might cause extra harm.

<comment><USER40> Mindfulness is supposed to be a practice, and it's not necessarily an easy thing you can do with all benefits and minimal work. It's also deeply personal and not a one-size-fits-all kind of thing.

I think schools should treat meditation like prayer, because it's essentially the same function, and we should just avoid it in the classroom.

Perhaps the real tragedy here is that many students will learn about mindfulness in schools and dismiss it as useless nonsense, when there actually may be something of value in there somewhere.

<comment><USER39> Prayer and meditation are completely different. There are studies which demonstrate a causal connection between meditation and mental health benefits, and even structural changes in the brain. It demonstrably helps with anxiety and depression. The same cannot be said for prayer.

[https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2018/04/harvard- resea...](https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2018/04/harvard-researchers- study-how-mindfulness-may-change-the-brain-in-depressed-patients/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> As an "old guy" who has been meditating since the 70's, Mindfulness is merely a popular fad, and a money grab, and is doing a terrible job is claiming to be a cure all. It latches onto people with anxiety issues and claims to be a cure all. Be like Public Enemy and Don't Believe The Hype.

</comment><comment><USER42> The correct teenage response being to recite Dead Kennedys lyrics.

<comment><USER43> Dead Kennedys?

OK boomer.

<comment><USER44> boomers know the quiet desperation of alienation isn't new to this century.

when mindfulness doesn't work, maybe the school system can try mixing in some disco: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U13xOvDa19U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U13xOvDa19U)

On-topic: I agree that _reducing stress_ is more likely to be effective than attempting to teach kids coping methods for stress.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER45> Mindfulness is pseudoscience garbage, it shouldn't be allowed in schools any more than religion should... blowing my mind here.

<comment><USER46> Learning how to observe emotions arise and react more reasonably and rationally is valuable. You seem to have a personal grudge or possibly just don't know anything about the subject.</comment></comment>


New Term: "Dark Cloud" - <AUTHOR> Definition: A company moved to a cloud provider in a rush without fully understanding its advantages and without fully understanding the company's own disadvantages. The results are a catastrophic disruption to the company and a heavy financial cost. Example: "We tried to move to AWS and now a dark cloud is hanging over us." "Trying to make your own private cloud with X technology is just a dark cloud." <comment><USER2> I thought this would be about cloud providers who use _Dark Patterns_...

</comment><comment><USER3> A company deploying any kind of setup, cloud or not, while handling sensitive client data without having done any sort of risk assessment and due diligence is simply negligent and is a sitting duck. This does not require a fancy new term.

</comment><comment><USER4> Possibly these folks think it's clever (tis a touch) to refer to problems with the cloud as being a dark cloud... like a dark cloud on the horizon.

</comment><comment><USER5> I sense a story there, tkyjonathan, care to share?

</comment><comment><USER6> Is this an actual thing?

<comment><USER7> The term? No.

Companies rushing to adopt technology or migrate to platforms without understanding the full scope of the consequences? Happens every day and is happening across the hall from me right now.</comment></comment>


Hewlett-Packard to Cut Up to 30,000 More Jobs in Restructuring - <AUTHOR> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-15/hewlett-packard-to-cut-up-to-30-000-more-jobs-in-restructuring <comment><USER2> Or about 10% of their full-time workforce [0].

[0] [http://finance.yahoo.com/q/pr?s=HPQ+Profile](http://finance.yahoo.com/q/pr?s=HPQ+Profile)</comment>


Ask HN: I might have invented a new protocol. What now? - <AUTHOR> Hello HN!
I believe I've invented a new cryptographic protocol which is related to anonymity. However, I am merely a software engineer (b.sc), and my experience in academic publishing is nil, and other than a basic university cryptographic course, I have no formal or systematic background in cryptography. My cryptographic knowledge is basic, practical and self taught.
I acknowledge that this might simply be a form of "Dunning-Kruger effect", and that my idea has already been considered and/or has fatal flaws. It did pass the sanity tests of my own reasoning and my friends' with whom I shared it, and extensive online search revealed nothing similar. But still, I would like to hear the opinion of experts in the field.
I do not wish to gain profit, but I do wish to be given the credit if it is indeed novel.
I believe I am capable of writing a detailed paper explaining the protocol, the threat model, etc. (and I've started to learn LaTeX) However, the paper would likely lack the proper citations of prior work because I have no formal background and am not sufficiently familiar with academia.
What do I do next? Dump the idea on the net? Contact some local university? (and if so, how would that work?)? Put it in a journal? (again, how?)
Suggestions are appreciated! <comment><USER2> Go ask on academia.stackexchange.com</comment>


Ask HN: Are small hosting companies still making money? - <AUTHOR>

With Amazon as competitor, is future of small hosting companies certain death? Will it be similar to what Walmart and other multi billion chains did to mom-pop shop? <comment><USER2> I have zero first hand knowledge of the hosting market, but as a developer I think there's still a very legitimate market for smaller hosting companies out there. While small companies may not be able to compete with Amazon on the ability to offer numerous features or scale out rapidly with massive numbers of machines, they can compete on things like price and customer service.

While many developers use Amazon seemingly by default without considering alternatives, many developers also realize that you can often _pay much less for greater performance_ by relying on smaller hosting companies.</comment>


Trump to launch Crackdown on violent Video Games after Mass Shootings - <AUTHOR> https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/gaming/trump-video-games-toledo-shooting-8chan-el-paso-press-conference-today-a9040066.html <comment><USER2> Games are not the issue, social media is the issue. As Joe Rogan said: "This country has a mental health problem disguised as a gun problem and a tyranny problem disguised as a security problem." [https://twitter.com/joerogan/status/295534798716407808?lang=...](https://twitter.com/joerogan/status/295534798716407808?lang=en)

</comment><comment><USER3> It is a well-studied fact that games don't cause violence.

But that's irrelevant, because Trump is not going to launch a crackdown on violent video games. Trump is going to play golf, eat a bunch of cheeseburgers in bed, then get up early to sit on the toilet and tweet about China.

Is this even an executive branch issue?</comment>


How Was Your Credit Card Stolen? - <AUTHOR> http://krebsonsecurity.com/2015/01/how-was-your-credit-card-stolen/

<comment><USER2> Chip-and-PIN would help enormously, if implemented correctly. I've seen several complaints about implementation. But the USA will probably wind up with just chip-and-signature instead.

Of course (here I'm pulling numbers out of the air) losses due to deadbeats defaulting on their credit card bills are probably 100x as high as from identity theft and credit card theft.</comment>


Please build an Apilatform - <AUTHOR> http://jatspeak.com/blog/?p=38 <comment><USER2> Well, the current structure of web goes like as follows :-

1\. You have some structured data. 2\. You convert it to structured data to unstructured data, and render it on the browser in form of xml 3\. Then search engines crawl your pages, and work night and day to build heuristics to convert this unstructured peice again to structured data. which is never optimal.

Can't this be completely avoided? Isn;t it quite unintelligent to go through this loop?</comment>


Ask HN: What happened to jobs.usethesource.com?  - <AUTHOR>

Hi,
Periodically I would check in on jobs.usethesource.com even when not looking for work. Before that, I used it when it was just usethesource.com. A while ago I noticed that the site was down. At the time I thought it was just a temporary disruption, but now I've realized that the site is gone gone and the associated Twitter account is also gone.
It is no big deal, but admittedly I'm a little curious as to what happened. Also, it was an Arc-based site, right? I vaguely recall it using the HN source code. <comment><USER2> I'm not sure exactly what happened, but there were hardly any posts on there last I remember. That, and most jobs are posted in the monthly whoishiring[1] thread now.

[1] <http://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=whoishiring></comment>