Almost all numbers contain the digit "3" [video] - <AUTHOR> http://www.numberphile.com/videos/three.html <comment><USER2> I really dislike these numberphile videos as they deliberately construct their arguments such that the answer makes math seem like a magic trick and that math is truly confusing, which is the opposite of helping people gain an intuition around math.

The trick here is that they start with the intuition of counting, in which each number is itself a single thing, but are actually doing a calculation based on each number being a string of single digits.

It's much less shocking if you say: Picking a random 10 digit number is the same as randomly picking 10 single digits. The more digits you pick the more likely it is that you'll get a '3' somewhere in there. So as your string of numbers increases in length the less likely it is that you're string won't contain any given number. If I said to someone "The more dice you throw the more likely it is you'll get at least one 3", I don't think I would get anyone who was surprised by that.

The unfortunate thing is that math and number theory in particular are full of genuinely fascinating observations that don't rely at all on a tricks of phrasing to be revealed, and rather than making less math literate people feel 'dumb' (as these videos tend to do), spark in interest in exploring math further.

<comment><USER3> I teach high school math and science. I had a group of students do a mini- project around the question, "Is there anything bigger than infinity?" The core of the project was students watching this numberphile video [0], and recreating his reasoning on their own.

That project helped them reason about higher-level math in a way they never thought themselves capable. The idea of "magic" never came up, but they certainly spoke about their sense of wonder at higher-level math. I really appreciate the way he presents mathematical concepts.

[0] - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elvOZm0d4H0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elvOZm0d4H0)

<comment><USER4> I think the quality of numberphile videos vary quite considerably. The one you linked is a rather honest explanation of the idea of comparing the size of sets through bijections and a good explanation of Cantors diagonal argument. As a mathematician I'm quite fine with it.

The one linked in the submission is more of an obvious statement hidden by obscure use of language. Slightly silly, but not very bad.

The worst offender with "magic" is the one with the Riemann zeta function [1], which went viral a while ago. The problem here is that they get people started off on the wrong foot, confusing them with wrong arguments and hidden definitions. Now, if people really want to understand why this can be made meaningful, you first have to explain that the better portion of the video is absolutely wrong, and only then can you explain what is actually going on.

[1] [http://youtu.be/w-I6XTVZXww](http://youtu.be/w-I6XTVZXww)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> This goes against generally accepted mathematical jargon ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mathematical_jargon#Des...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mathematical_jargon#Descriptive_informalities)). For countable sets like integers, "almost all" has a meaning "all except a _finite_ set". Obviously the set of numbers that do _not_ contain 3 (or any other digit) is an infinite countable subset of all integers. Frequency has nothing to do with it.

<comment><AUTHOR> That turns out not to be the case:

        > almost all
        > A shorthand term for "all except for a set of measure zero",
        > when there is a measure to speak of.

In this case there is no measure to speak of, so it is normal to talk about taking the ration in a finite initial segment and then letting the size go to infinity and seeing what happens to the ratio.

And a set of measure zero does not have to be finite, either. Almost all numbers are transcendental in the sense given above, and yet there are infinitely many non-transcendental numbers.

So I think you are mistaken, although I would be interested to hear a more complete statement of what you mean, in case I have misunderstood you.

<comment><USER5> The same excerpt, starting from "One can also speak" describes how that "almost all" terminology is applied to integers (or, by extension, to any countable set, that is already measure zero). The example statement is "almost all prime numbers are odd", because there is a finite number of primes that are even (only one number 2).

Put another way, if we stick to the definition of "almost all" as elements not having the property forming measure zero set, then you do not need the video to prove the title: all integers are already measure zero. So, for subsets of integers, "almost all" means something else in jargon.

I could not watch the video, but I found (I believe) equivalent text. And "almost all" means that as we extend the reach the share of numbers not containing 3 goes to zero. It is mildly entertaining (albeit a bit too obvious) result, but my point was that usage of "almost all" is confusing because _I_ am used to a very specific meaning of it.

<comment><USER6> It's also a little confusing because there are sets which do not have a well- defined natural density among the integers, like:

         leastpow2 x = head $ dropWhile (\k -> 2*k <= x)  $ map (2^) [0..]
         p k = k < 3 * (leastpow2 k `div` 2)
         limitless = [k | k <- [0..], k == 0 || p k]

which oscillates between attaining 1/2 and then 2/3 for its partial densities.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> By the same token, most numbers are more than 8 digits long.

In fact, most are over a billion digits long. Although I've never see a single one in the wild...

<comment><USER8> 5.73x10^1000000000

There you are then. Not that impressive, is it?

<comment><USER9> 3 ↑↑ 4

Where ↑ is the knuth uparrow notation, beats your example in only 4 symbols with about three thousand times as many digits

<comment><USER10> I'll see you and raise you a © .

Which in my book is c, the speed of light in a vacuum, 299792458 m/s, a mere 9 digits, but inscribed in a circle using Steinhaus–Moser notation[1] is equivalent to a number so mindbogglingly big that I'm not even going to attempt to calculate its measure.[2]

[1]: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steinhaus%E2%80%93Moser_notatio...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steinhaus%E2%80%93Moser_notation)

[2]: Not that it makes any sense to perform this operation on c, but I think that use of © in this way is much more interesting than its current usage.

<comment><USER9> I admit defeat, using standard notation I can't think of a better ratio of numeric length vs symbolic representation. Well played!

Aaronson's got a blog entry tangentially related to this competition

[http://www.scottaaronson.com/writings/bignumbers.html](http://www.scottaaronson.com/writings/bignumbers.html)

"In an old joke, two noblemen vie to name the bigger number. The first, after ruminating for hours, triumphantly announces "Eighty-three!" The second, mightily impressed, replies "You win.""

<comment><USER10> Thank you for a nice challenge, and thanks for the interesting link :-)

As someone who is genuinely interested in AI, I'm very curious if lateral thinking like we demonstrated can ever be matched by a machine. I'm watching things unfold with great interest.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> The same reasoning applies to every digit. So almost all numbers contain your favorite decimal digit.

If I showed this video to a friend who particularly enjoys the digit "6", she would not see the connection, as the video is about "3". No matter how many times I try to explain that there is nothing special about "6", she won't hear any of it.

I am quite convinced that the same attitude is rather widespread, and could be effectively monetized by anyone both charismatic enough and unethical enough to exploit it.

<comment><USER12> At the end of the video, he does mention that it works for any digit. A more honest way to present the argument would be to start with "let x be any decimal digit..." but I suspect most non-mathematicians wouldn't be able to follow that.

<comment><USER13> Serious mathematicians will feel his title was misleading or dishonest. Considering the proportion of mathematicians to the general public, the teacher is probably not targeting mathematicians - he's a mathematician targeting the mathematically curious. With that in mind, the title is perfect.

<comment><USER14> I don't agree. I think the real power of his videos is that, if he is demonstrating _anything_ about mathematics, it's that mathematicians aren't all pedants who can't communicate with anyone outside of their field without accuracy.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> This video was posted on april 1st if no one has noticed.

<comment><AUTHOR> I hadn't noticed, but it doesn't matter. The result is correct. Are you claiming otherwise? Are you claiming that it's false?

<comment><USER16> Almost all of the news published on April 1st is garbage.

<comment><USER17> I don't think this is actually true; regular news sites and newspapers still go on producing news, and it's only a small percentage that are parodical. I would bet that less than 10% of purported news articles on April 1st are fake.

Unless you are also claiming that most news published is garbage anyway, in which case I agree.

<comment><USER18> He was making a joke.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> In real life data sets, Benfords Law shows that the digit '1' occurs with much higher probability.

<comment><USER20> This one is actually true and interesting for real. If you haven't heard of this before i highly recommend reading up about it.

When measuring random things in nature, _regardless of what unit and base you use to measure_ (inches, cm, m, feet, etc), measurements with lower first digit appear more frequent than others! This is due to things in nature usually being exponentially distributed, when you have an exponential distribution you will "move away" faster from higher valued digits and reach the next power of ten faster, there you will restart with a low first digits which is slow to move away from. For example, assuming a spread of about 50%, then 1+50%=1.5 (still starting with 1) but 5+50%=7.5 (not starting with same digit), and 8+50%=12 (starting with 1 again).

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> For those of you who aren't familiar, Brady Haran, the creator of numberphile, produces a ton of awesome videos of experts talking about science and math. Besides numberphile, he does Sixty Symbols (physics), Periodic Videos (chem), and computerphile (comp sci) [0].

[0] [http://www.bradyharan.com/](http://www.bradyharan.com/)

</comment><comment><USER22> Almost all numbers contain the sequence 861523871623871623871263.

</comment><comment><USER23> So in general, almost all numbers contain any digit? Great.

<comment><USER24> An interesting consequence (since there are only finitely many digits) is that, in this sense, almost all numbers contain _every_ digit—a phrasing that, I think, makes the statement _less_ surprising.

<comment><USER25> Also, almost all numbers contain any given finite sequence of digits.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> In the end he mentions that it's equally true for the number 5. I guess that's because of the nature of infinity. All numbers would contain almost all other digits when infinity is involved.

<comment><USER27> Probably a better way to phrase that is almost all numbers contain all the digits.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> Imagine a game like minecraft, but you only get 10 blocks. Now you will compose an infinite number of saved games using anywhere from 1 to infinity number of blocks and each time you place a block in each saved game, you pick a block randomly.

Some saved game will be a single block, and others will be infinitely vast. Larger than our real universe, containing every block. It's not a stretch of the imagination to see that the majority of the games will contain at least 1 of each of the ten block types.

</comment><comment><USER29> It's clear that the same principle applies for every digit. But is the converse true? ie: Almost all numbers DON'T contain the digit "3"

<comment><USER30> Not unless we equivocate and redefine "almost all" to be something other than what he used in this video, right?

He showed that the ratio of "whole numbers containing 3" to "whole numbers" is close to 1. So the ratio of "whole numbers not containing three" to "whole numbers" is close to 0.

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> If you really want to blow your mind, almost all numbers contain all the digits 0-9. That's a lot more interesting and surprising to me than that they contain any one digit.

But the reality underlying this is actually really boring; when you start talking in terms of n -> infinity any fraction will become insignificant as it self multiplies.

<comment><USER32> Almost all integers contain the first ten trillion digits of pi, consecutively and in order.

And yes, it's really not that interesting. Infinity!

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> Another similar idea is the Kempner series.

If you add 1/n for all natural numbers n, then the series tends towards infinity.

However, if you leave out any integers that contain a digit 9, then the series converges (to just under 23). (It would also converge if you left out numbers containing a digit 3, just to a different limit.)

</comment><comment><USER34> Here is a visualization of the number convergence:

(loop [i 1 t [10N] v [1.0]] (if (> i 300) (map (fn [[a b]] (/ a b)) (partition 2 (interleave v t))) (recur (inc i) (conj t (* 10 (last t))) (conj v (+ (* 9 (last v)) (Math/pow 10 i))))))

</comment><comment><USER35> Sure, the proportion converges to 1 as the order of magnitude approaches infinity.

But this convergence is really really slow...

</comment><comment><USER36> In an infinite universe, almost everyone is a smartass mathematician :)

</comment><comment><USER37> It is an April Fools' video, nothing to see here.

<comment><AUTHOR> So, just to be clear, you're claiming that the result is false?

<comment><USER38> It can be a April Fools video and still be correct. Basically it's a moot video because you can use the same logic to prove that any digit has the same properties or converse property (that three exists almost NO where because the probability of a number doesn't have three is P(n)=1-1/10^n and as n->∞ P(n)->0

<comment><AUTHOR>
      > ... because the probability of a number has
      > three is P(n)=1/10^n and as n->∞ P(n)->0

Er, no. The probability of an n digit number having a three is P(n) = 1 - (9/10)^n, and as n->∞, P(n)->1.

I don't understand why you say it's a moot video. The result as stated in the video is complete and correct.

<comment><USER38> I meant to say doesn't have 3 and have updated the comment to reflect the equation I believe is correct.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Picked a First Project to Learn to Code With but Need Language Advice.  - <AUTHOR>

I've been wanting to learn to code for some time now, and most people told me to pick something I wanted to make and build it from the ground-up (Or top-down should I say).
My project is based off extracting certain data from Google Maps API, storing it in a database somewhere, analyzing it for different situations and putting it back out.  (At least this is what I plan to do, I have no clue how possible/intensive this is but I guess I will find out).
I'm sure everyone hates these "what language should I learn" questions, but I figure since there may be certain things that work really well with my situation and certain that could work terribly, it could be a valid question.
Thanks in advance.
tl;dr What language to use with Google APIs. <comment><USER2> Since you'll be working w/ Google APIs, you'll likely want to go with Google App Engine to deploy your app, and their SDK is available in Java or Python, so I'd recommend Python.

Just my $0.02

<comment><USER3> +1 for python.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Assuming that you're just starting to code, this project sounds too ambitious.

At least try breaking it into smaller chunks that you can work on independently. For example, moving data in and out of a database. Install MySQL, learn about tables, fields, and a bit of SQL from a MySQL client command prompt. Then learn how to do these things with MySQL using some other programming language with a MySQL library. I think carpentry starts with banging nails, not designing houses.

I started off with Basic when I was a kid. I'd recommend Python to get started these days, ideally running on Ubuntu Linux.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the advice everyone. I actually already started Learn Python the Hard Way about a week ago, so this works out great.

And thanks for the advice on the project, I will probably do as you suggested and start with some simpler projects and then expand into what I envisioned, after I get a grasp of MySQL, python etc.

Thanks again, and see you around HN.

</comment><comment><USER5> Python.

Places to get started:

<http://docs.python.org/tutorial/>

<http://learnpythonthehardway.org/index>

<http://www.pythonchallenge.com/></comment>


Pops for sexy ads - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2012/02/13/pops-raises-1-5m-from-mangrove-to-sexify-mobile-notifications/

<comment><AUTHOR> Its about time to distribute a radical new way of ads. We've had the same version of the fossil like "in your face" campaigns for the past 80 years. No matter how you try to tweak it, it will always end of being the same version of a very ineffective form of brand recognition. There are very early stage solutions to this problem with the start of social ads and and recommendations. We need to make greater strides to precisely expose users to the products that they need, at the same time removing the clutter. This benefiting both the distributer and the receiver (from shooting themselves in the face). :)</comment>


One Year in San Francisco as a Software Engineer - <AUTHOR> https://evertpot.com/a-look-back-at-sf/ <comment><USER3> As a European visitor, I had similar feelings about SF.

One moment I'm in Twitter HQ, enjoying free food from around the world, place is buzzing with techies. Next moment we wander around a bit and there's a whole park where the homeless are living in the bushes.

I was literally in a place where one guy I met was designing self driving cars, and another guy was wandering the street with no shoes on, fighting with his invisible friend.

I also thought the natural surroundings were a contrast with what people have built. Minus the bridge and a few landmarks, the city looks kinda bland. Too low-rise for such a popular place. But there's hills and natural features that are quite spectacular.

<comment><USER4> When I first flew in to San Francisco, I thought it looked like Mexico City.

After a while, I came to believe that lots of attached housing up and down hills is actually a pretty charming street form. On a flat plain, it would be claustrophobic, but the relief creates views that open up the dense landscape. Lots of San Francisco photography emphasizes this.

It makes me wonder why new developments today are always built in the flattest places -- the flatness practically forces us to include a lot of empty space, usually in the form of lawns.

<comment><USER5> I think your mixing the cause and effect here. Development in Flatland middle America is not constrained by coast line. It's much easier to build out than up, and land is on average cheaper than coastal cities. This means developments include large open spaces, because it's affordable. A lawn in a Mid West city starts at 100k instead of 10mil like in San Francisco.

<comment><USER6> In a lot of Midwest, you can buy a decent house and a lawn for $150K all-in, where the land is under $25K of the assessed value.

<comment><USER5> That's totally reasonable. The 100k quote was for inside a city, where prices are a bit more but still reasonable. But once you get into the burbs it's more about finding a good neighborhood than an affordable price.

Source: Grew up and lived in Indiana, now live in SF.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> >But when you go home after work, also be prepared to see the dystopia that your industry has created as a by-product.

Has this actually been concluded? That it is the "tech industry's fault?" Because I feel like I could fence off any claims as such by asking, "well, why didn't the government do anything about it?"

Based on my experience in multiple major metropolitan areas, the "tech industry" here in SF seems to be the most engaged in "doing something about it" than anywhere else. Is it because the problem is bigger? Maybe they're just better at marketing than the companies in other cities? Fair questions. Maybe.

I remember reading in the local papers when I lived in Mountain View that Google was going to assign some # of a new housing project they wanted to be low income housing - at my understanding, to be a total loss to them. They were going to build bridges, footpaths, and parks to "offset" the burden of the increased number of residents in Mountain View. I have seen similar from other companies.

In Houston, BP nuked the gulf of mexico and then fought _everyone_ over how "responsible" they are for it. Chevron donated some fossils to the Museum of Natural Science. I dunno, I just feel like people are being unduly critical of the tech industry in SF, as if some homeless people poop on the streets because rich engineers ride buses paid for by google. Why isn't there better public transit, so the buses aren't necessary? Why block the proliferation of scooters and bicycles, so people are far more motivated to take Lyft or Uber? Why aren't there more public, 24/7 restrooms? And why isn't the Oil industry taking more flack for turning Houston into a 75x75 mile square of choking freeways? Because poop is grosser? Grosser than runaway climate change? Poop happens in Houston, too.

I just feel like SF is a big giant target, the go-to punching bag, because Big Tech, and yet meanwhile Big Oil, Big Pharma, Big Finance, Big Ag gets away with dramatically worse in cost and human suffering.

<comment><USER8> See the Prop C campaign (e.g. Marc Benioff) for more insight in this issue. SF tech didn't invent homelessness but it has clearly exacerbated it, simply by generating a lot of demand for housing.

In a nutshell, the tech industry generally tries to point the finger at lack of supply and blame NIMBYS for obstructing housing construction. But this can be seen as a defensive strategy: it's pretty clear that a sudden, massive surge of high income earners into a constrained area in the top of a peninsula with weak tenant protections will push a lot of poorer people out of their housing.

It's not only the fault of the city not to build housing fast enough. We've even seen "strange" effects in other boomtowns (Seattle) where building doesn't solve the problem.[1]

It's not that strange if you _truly_ understand economics 101. It contains the concept of price inelasticity, which one might see under boomtown conditions (insatiable demand for a necessity, essentially). But to even engage in a real economics discussion kind of misses the point. Mostly the tech industry wants to deflect blame for the problem.

[1] [https://knock-la.com/seattle-a-cautionary-tale-for-supply- si...](https://knock-la.com/seattle-a-cautionary-tale-for-supply-side-housing- advocates-5b4ca5ed6d02)

<comment><USER9> > simply by generating a lot of demand for housing.

Oh for fucks sake. You realize this is what happens when a city becomes successful right?

If you want to blame someone, its the NIMBYs: scuttling housing projects that would have eased the bubble and helped house a lot more people for reasonable prices, while benefiting from the economic successes of the companies and people moving in.

<comment><USER8> I predicted this response, right? Boomtown economics are tricky. There is just an extraordinary amount of demand that appeared in a very short time. The velocity and magnitude of the surge in demand matters.

When you have an entire global population of techies that suddenly want to move to the heart of their industry, you may experience price inelasticity, which basically means you won't see much downward movement in price.

Think of it: before prices come down to affordable levels for the people you see on the street, or even service industry workers and teachers and whatnot, they would first be dirt cheap for tech. How many _more_ tech workers would move to SF or start their companies here if they heard it was cheap now? That's how deep the demand goes. That's all the demand that needs to be satiated before market rates come down to where they could reverse homelessness.

That's why tech can't just pass the buck to NIMBYS or pretend like this is any other city. We are creating some of the most valuable companies in the world here right now and it generally helps your prospects to co-locate. That creates very exceptional demand conditions.

<comment><USER9> You have good points. In a hypothetical scenario where the housing market was highly elastic, it would certainly lead to a huge movement of tech labor force to the Bay Area.

But I feel like that is the way SFBA will grow. Every city has its secret sauce, for SFBA it is tech. Instead of fighting it, I can imagine a scenario where the concentration of Tech leads to a transformation of the area to be more like NYC. Or maybe it will take a different direction.

As naive as it sounds, I still believe in Tech as a force for good (not Big Tech necessarily). I moved here from Austin, and folks there talk about how the tech industry is growing, but its still Satellite offices for Big Tech. The kind of talent I see in SFBA is staggering.

<comment><USER8> Do you really feel that Prop C is "fighting" tech growth, though? Not sure if that is your position.

I think a big reason Benioff came around is that he's taking a long view. Perhaps you could even draw a connection with the maturity of Salesforce as a company vs young startups whose current teams might exit in under 10 years. Benioff got his whole team on board not only out of altruism, but by noting that homelessness was seriously threatening Saleforce's future in the city.

<comment><USER9> Benioff didn't come around. He is from SF, unlike a lot of other Tech CEO's. His company has made significant investments in the City proper. He's been playing the long game for a while now.

I don't have an opinion on Prop C. The thrust of my argument was more around prop 13.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I'm also from Toronto living in SF. This is pretty spot on.

Some other things that struck me about living here.

\- SF is cold! (yes, this coming from a canadian) In Toronto you get "real" seasons and snow during winter, but SF (especially in the areas closer to the ocean) is blasted with cold wind and fog year-round so there's really never a hot season. In addition to that, SF has its infamous micro-weathers: it might be foggy on one patch of the city, rain on another and be sunny (but still windy) on yet another part of town, all at the same time.

\- Food scene: SF does a lot of spins on food. If I were to describe food here, I'd have to say it's generally "gimmicky". It's very common to see people lining up for unique eye-catching things like asian+mexican fusion, dashi-broth ramen and taiyaki ice cream, but finding good traditional chinese or greek or korean food or even a half-decent shawarma is tough. Also, having to wait in line for 30+ mins almost everywhere detracts a lot from dining experiences. Many places are also ridiculously cramped. I've never had to walk _through the kitchen_ to get to a restroom anywhere else before.

\- LGBT community: Toronto has a large LGBT community and one of the largest parades in North America, but people generally don't try to be too outrageous. In the one year I've been to SF, I've ran into butt-naked people numerous times (in contexts ranging from them just walking down the street to them running the Bay-to-Breakers marathon). Also ran into a leather fetish gear festival around costco a while back. Nothing really against that sort of stuff, but can be awkward to inadvertently run into it when you're just out and about with the kids on a random weekend.

\- Geography and nature: Within SF, there are gorgeous places scattered throughout the city (e.g. views from Russian Hill, around Randall museum, presidio area). If you have a car, there are also a ton of amazing state parks in the surrounding areas, from redwood forests to beaches. You can see wild sea life up close at fitzgerald marine reserve and even spot whales at pigeon point.

<comment><USER11> > SF does a lot of spins on food. If I were to describe food here, I'd have to > say it's generally "gimmicky".

We need a word for the disappointment experienced upon realizing that the food in front of you has been optimized for Instagram and not for you.

<comment><USER5> Stop going to restaurants based on pictures and yelp reviews then. Also Michelen Stars are horrible unless you want over priced small plates that try to be art first and food second. If you do want to go to those places, get a reservation. Either OpenTable or just call them like it's the 90s.

It takes a while, but exploring neighborhoods can be really rewarding. I rarely wait for a table, and if you do have to wait there is usually another place right next door. Not every place is spectacular, but the overall food quality here is decent. Finally, avoid anywhere with more than 20-30 items on a menu (Thank you Gordon Ramsey).

There is another (realer imo) Asian area on Clement and Geary over in the Richmond that has authentic food all over. Japan town is good, but stay away from most of the tourist trap that is the Grant street Chinatown.

But this city does suck for Mediterranean.

<comment><USER12> It has nothing to do with waiting for tables and everything to do with the food being both more expensive and less tasty than the kind of food you get from holes in the wall.

Honestly, I'd even take an everyday American Chinese restaurant over one of those yuppie restaurants that sell overpriced Chinese-ish food aimed at white yuppies (the Americanization bothers me less than the catering to the yuppie community... regular old working-class American Chinese food is actually pretty tasty, even if it's not my favorite, which is more than I can say for Yuppie Chinese).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> > "Queers hate techies" (from the photo)

The housing scarcity and high rents are caused by politics, by zoning, by not allowing to build enough new homes. It's sad that techies are blamed for the problem created by the politicians and, ultimately, by the voters.

Especially foreign tech workers, such as the author, bear no blame, as they cannot even vote in any US elections.

<comment><USER14> Yes. I was just going to post this:

 _Personally I can emphasize with the sentiment. Even though I don't think that 20-something programmers in Google buses are personally responsible for the disparity, but the brandless tinted Google buses are a powerful symbol for new class system._

 _I've never seen so much poverty and homelessness before. There's many major streets where wearing open shoes would be a big no-no, because of used needles lying around in plain sight. Seeing people shooting up on Market Street is pretty normal._

This is a political decision, or set of decisions: [https://techcrunch.com/2014/04/14/sf- housing/](https://techcrunch.com/2014/04/14/sf-housing/). Anytime we want to, we can build as much housing as people want to live in; we just make doing so illegal right now.

<comment><USER15> You can't build housing cheap enough for chronic drug users to afford.

<comment><USER16> > You can't build housing cheap enough for chronic drug users to afford.

You certainly easily can: effectively free (subsidized by tax payers).

The house-the-homeless programs run during the Bush and Obama administrations dramatically reduced chronic homelessness in most of the US, pushing it to a record low per capita.

San Francisco is one of the wealthiest places on earth. They intentionally choose to allow the human rights violation of mass, particularly chaotic homelessness to continue in the city. Morally they own it, period. There are obvious, highly effective solutions that have been used elsewhere.

<comment><USER15> >You certainly easily can: effectively free (subsidized by tax payers).

That's not building cheap housing that drug users can afford. It's just getting someone else to pay.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> SF and the Bay Area are two very distinct places. The Bay Area is literally a series of midwestern towns dotted by dot com campuses. SF is a cesspool of homelessness and vanity. I love the bay, hate SF.

Also San Diego has tons of homeless too, and it has none of the tech scene. People are homeless in California because A) It has weather you can be outside in year round, especially in SoCal B) Our government is corrupt and is the cause of a serious housing crisis to keep prices inflated C) Cost of living is inflated by the housing crisis.

<comment><USER18> > The Bay Area is literally a series of midwestern towns dotted by dot com > campuses.

Midwestern? It's as far west as you can get.

And they're not towns - they're cities, all merged into one massive continuous urban sprawl for 80 miles around the bay.

<comment><USER17> They're like small towns dude. Definitely not cities.

<comment><USER18> They are cities. San Mateo is a city. San Jose is a city. Hayward is a city. Redwood City is... a city. Union City is... a city. Oakland isn't just a city, it's the eighth most populated city in the whole of California!

<comment><USER17> You're taking this way to literally. Union City isn't a city. It's a small town at best. Redwood City is like a bigger town. Fremont is also town sized. San Carlos is literally a town I've visited in Indiana. None of these places are worthy of being called cities except for Oakland and maybe San Jose.

<comment><USER19> This is a truly insane take. San Jose, the 3rd most populous city in California and 10th most populous in the entire United States is _maybe_ a city?

<comment><USER20> It's a city with a long-dead downtown surrounded by sprawl.

(SJ native here)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Software development is a relatively new job compared to others, but thinking about the politics of the bay area highlights to me how weak politically the "institution" of software / information technology is as a special interest group.

You can definitely think of a senator or congressmen who is "for the banks" or "for pharmaceuticals" even those who are "pro steel union" or "pro teachers union" but you really can't find any of note who promote an interest that can be specifically tied to what developers want. This is taking to account that developers are not a monolith and probably span a wide variety of political ideology, but I can't think of a single issue, whether or not it's in the majority opinion that is being advocated for in government.

San Francisco in general is an interesting beacon, the city itself is not that large, and I would expect that there are enough full time developers in the city who live there who can at least get someone on the city council, and yet.. it really does not seem to be the case that there is someone who you can readily point to as an advocate. Am I drastically mistaken? Would love to hear further perspectives from folks in the bay.

The most effective form of government is the one that is most local to you, when will developers put their weight on the scale?

<comment><USER22> I'm not from the Bay Area, but I think you present an interesting point. Is it possible that we don't have developers in government because they would prefer to focus on developing?

The type of people that end up spearheading campaigns and taking leadership positions tend to be too busy with new priorities to continue previous activities. Managing staff, setting and achieving goals across a variety of disciplines, and ...leading may take the place of the inspiring moments that help justify their existence as a developer, especially overtime. It takes a specific type of person to want to take or make that change.

Though software folk are exploding in numbers (source: am one), perhaps further care and attention is needed in balancing the social skills, creativity, and growth of tenacity of those that are attempting to improve their development abilities. Particularly if we want to create techies that are smart as a whip and can also hold public office effectively.

<comment><USER21> I think traditionally you're right, but I'm noticing a sea change. With tech companies becoming more diverse I think you're seeing a break in the cultural stereotype of developers: the google walk out regarding sexual harassment is marker to me.

More people who break the stereotypical mold are moving into engineering, I think this trend will lead to the rise of something resembling a union and special interest groups.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> I'm a Belgian guy who lived one year (2016-2017) in SF. It took me a while to admit to myself it really wasn't as awesome as I had envisioned it. In fact I hated it after a year.

Besides what's already in the article (which was definitely the biggest shock) I also felt like:

\- Nightlife is boring, not much to do for a city of about a million people and the 2am alcohol limit.

\- Uninteresting architecture-wise

\- Dating life sucks for a heterosexual male who's used to 50/50 men/women ratio in bars & clubs.

\- Being a hipster is the norm.

Admittedly, I did very little research before moving. And it wasn't all bad, I loved driving my bike in the nearby hills and the work was interesting and well paid.

<comment><USER24> Nice to hear I'm not the only one. I like tech and other developers but its boring when virtually everyone you meet is in the same industry.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> every time I read stuff like this I get that ol' rise of anger: that the Internet, the great leveler, it will bring us all together regardless of where we happen to be on earth ... at least, unless you want to build it, in which case you need to be in the same small area for 40+ hours a week.

Aren't we tech types obsessed with removing single points of failure?

Aren't we moving past "you must sit in a specific chair so your manager can have specific interactions with you, in person"?

I know there's remote work out there; believe me, I know. But read stuff like this and browse the "who's hiring" threads, laden with ONSITE, and wonder when I'll finally be able to sever the link between the skill in my brain and sitting in that one specific chair in that one specific building in that one specific town.

<comment><USER26> Working in the same place, in my anecdotal experience, leads to better communication. A couple orders of magnitude better.

Face-to-face communication provides much higher "bandwidth" than text-based.

<comment><USER27> This is really it. Personally I don't think VC's care, and I don't think most managers really care either. If they could have such a high quality experience remotely, they'd be happy to hire remote talent. This takes dedication, self motivation and creativity on both the manager and the employee.

In person is much easier. There are shared experiences we can have. We can randomly bump into each other and have small reminder-type experiences. It's easier to get a sense of what kind of person we're working with, and that becomes an elevated sense of trust. This all matters and it's difficult to do remotely.

I've done both. I prefer onsite. Currently I'm remote and honestly it's a struggle, and regular onsite visits are a must to maintain those trust bonds.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> I really enjoy reading content that elicits more questions than answers provided. This is one of those pieces and mirrors my experience as well. I lived/grew up in Columbus, Ohio, before moving to the Bay. Columbus has a very nice tech scene, but also boasts industry diversification. I can code, but my neighbors/friends might be in insurance, healthcare, logistics, retail (L Brands) and have a shared standard of living. I ended up moving back and enjoy my $1.4k apartment in a great, quiet neighborhood and 5-7 minute commute to work downtown. I think the Bay Area could benefit from such diversity.

</comment><comment><USER29> I found this a really thoughtful read, I've lived here for almost 15 years and have been below the federal poverty line as well as in the 90-something percentile of US wage earners. It's heartbreaking to be surrounded by people struggling and also to know that if you slow down too much, you could pretty easily find yourself on the streets.

I think the author hits an important point that, if nothing else, it's important to be aware of ourselves. It may not be my or your personal fault that things are the way they are, but we're living in a system that substantially rewards what we do over everyone else around us. I would posit that this also harms us, as the author notes - a person making six figures with a busy job can easily feel like money is just going through their fingers like water.

This is part of why I'm going back to school to study economics. I want to live a rich life, which to me doesn't mean having substantially more than other people. I want to live in an enriched community where everyone who plays an important part can live comfortably, raise a family if they want to, have savings, pay a reasonable amount for housing, etc..

There's more to life than computers. <3

</comment><comment><USER30> > "it takes about 1-2 months to no longer really see the homeless".

I used to live a couple hours south of SF. Once I went to a conference at Mosconi Center that started early, and got a big shock just driving there a bit after dawn. Right off of the freeway there was a tent city on concrete sidewalks. The filth and poverty were overwhelming to me. I felt like a slack jawed hick, not realizing that this kind of mass naked misery was so nearby. I saw the oft mentioned shit and needles and condoms strewn everywhere. On foot I made the mistake of meeting a homeless guy's eyes, who then chased me while screaming threats for two blocks.

And this was around '95, and the consensus is that it's gotten a lot worse. That people can ignore that after a couple of months of exposure is a testament to human plasticity. I imagine that if it were fresh to everyone every day people would have to either flee or actually do something about it. It's hard to imagine what an individual could do that would be effective.

If only there were a tech solution for reversing the invisibility. Articles like this can help a little but they're probably easier to ignore than the homeless themselves.

</comment><comment><USER31> I thought this video about one developer's saga trying to build housing where his laundromat currently is explains a lot of the problems SF has with creating new housing:

"This Insane Battle To Block a New Apartment Building Explains Why San Francisco and Other Cities Are So Expensive" [https://reason.com/reasontv/2018/12/27/san-francisco- mission...](https://reason.com/reasontv/2018/12/27/san-francisco-mission- housing-crisis)

</comment><comment><USER32> What's tech's obsession with the bay area? It's lovely, I've visited - <USER2> then left. I can see why companies would thrive in an area with this excellent skill-pool - but I'd have thought they'd all want to get their employees out of there as soon as possible, once they'd got them. Chuck them into a new office in the mid-west, let them buy a 5 bedroom mansion for a fraction of their salary, and make potential poaching as painful as possible. Only possible reasons I can think of for what's happening are: 1) Insanely rich bosses are delusional, want all their staff around them, and the 'prestige' is over-riding sanity. 2) Staff consider Bay Area is "making it" and are happy to flit between local employers, ranking up their salary as they go.

</comment><comment><USER33> _we wanted a 2-bedroom apartment and a reasonable commute. Ultimately this meant that our rent was $4250 USD per month..._ Whaaa....

<comment><USER34> That sounds in the ballpark these days. It's in the range on the nicer end but not a luxury apartment.

<comment><USER35> Yeah, but it's also about 3 times my entire house payment here in the midwest.

<comment><USER36> It's five times my mortgage payment on a five bedroom house on a half acre, inside the city limits of a town ~13k.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> > But when you go home after work, also be prepared to see the dystopia that > your industry has created as a by-product.

I think it's a bit narcissistic to believe that tech has somehow caused all of SF's problems and unique qualities. Healthcare is a bigger and faster growing industry, and the homeless situation is caused by lots of factors both supply (zoning/regulation) and demand (tech/finance/healthcare workers).

There is a veneer of tech-induced culture in SF, but the true character and complexity of the city is caused by much, much more.

</comment><comment><USER38> Is it just me or the writer has a really nice "voice" in this post?

Was pleasant to read, but also informative, and balanced.

Well done!

</comment><comment><USER39> The Bay Area isn't the only place that has experienced an economic boom, but it is definitely the one that has managed it the worst.

<comment><USER40> Detroit is quintessentially the city that has the worst outcome from an economic boom. From 1940 through to about the mid 1960s the city the top, or near the top for household income, similar to SF now.

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> "be prepared to see the dystopia that your industry has created as a by- product." \- that's an assumption that is not based on fact. The software industry is not the only factor.

<comment><USER42> When I make a sandwich, I do not become a bread baker first...

It is perfectly reasonable to state as fact that the predominant economic paradigm of the city has caused dystopia, despite there being other causal factors or caveats baked in.

<comment><USER43> if I roll through NYC with a tank column and blow a bunch of stuff up, is the ensuing chaos caused by wall street?

edit: or do I become the predominant economic paradigm?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER44> The real experience is living in the south bay in a giant apartment complex with a pool, driving everywhere, working on a tech campus, shopping at Fry's and Valley Fair. I may move back.

</comment><comment><USER45> This is in the back of my mind when I think about one day working in the Bay Area. Given that the cost of living has increased to match the high salaries, there is little to draw me there other than cool problems to work on, which Silicon Valley does not have a monopoly on.

<comment><USER46> Career growth and networking opportunities is unprecedented there. Plus, if the salaries are higher in proportion to the costs of living, then your 10% (or whatever) savings you put aside will be much bigger.

I crunched the numbers before we moved to SF and even paying 10x more rent for 3x more salary worked out ok.

<comment><USER47> People tend to forget that if you contribute 10% of your salary to a retirement account, that 10% in CA is massively bigger than the same 10% anywhere else. Even if you technically lose on cost of living, you can win with proper savings strategies.

<comment><USER48> "if" is the issue. Most people won't contribute 10%, and that too has a tax ceiling. I contribute 15%, and I still hit the 18k limit, moving into after tax. Make too much to contribute to a Roth also. I'm in a flyover state, and tech salaries in SF are going to be even more limited. I just save it as cash for my kids college.

<comment><USER49> Working in tech, if you don't max out your 401k, what are you doing ?

<comment><USER48> Agreed. Just iterating that 10% easily hits the limit of traditional retirement savings, and one has to use different avenues to have equivalent retirement income of a tech salary.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER50> The housing crisis, high prices, and even homelessness is inevitable in such a great place (climate, nature, jobs). The corrupt political system and some people's attitude is just another indirect consequence. You can't fight the laws of supply and demand.

</comment><comment><USER51> "...the only reason Silicon Valley and the Bay Area has been so prosperous is because it's in a country where generally people are comfortable with having so much wealth, while having so many people live under the poverty line."

This. So horrible. :(

<comment><USER52> Objectively not true, it is run by the same people who complained about it and who's solution is to increase taxes and regulations which only worsens the problem.

The Working Class is moving into states like Texas for a reason despite California being progressive

</comment></comment><comment><USER53> Honestly, I can't imagine a job that is interesting or well-paying enough to be worth having to live in the bay area or SV.

<comment><USER54> Imagine this: Fantastic weather. Ski on Saturday, bike on Sunday, go to the beach on Monday, if you feel like it. Regional parks, state park, national park all within 15min to a few hours distance. Lots of cultural events due to closeness of San Francisco. Huge variety of restaurants. 2 nearby international airports that will get me anywhere quickly. The high chance of finding a new, interesting job if the need ever arises.

And, yes, incredibly interesting and well paying job that has set me up for retirement long before I hit 65 now matter where I'll end up (not that I'd want to retire soon because... interesting job.)

When you're part of the group who got lucky, living in the Bay Area is really not so bad.

<comment><USER53> I don't have to imagine it -- I'm very, very familiar with the area.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER55> > "On the way I noticed that the billboards next to the highways were directly > targetting developers."

Funny, this was the first thing I also noticed about the Bay Area when I moved out here years ago: the billboards. Where I came from (Deep South, Florida panhandle), all the billboards said things like "Homeschoolers for Jesus" and "Remember not to shake your baby," and when I landed in SFO I was greeted by billboards for Portal 2, some Java framework, and the unbiquitous iPhone billboards. Definitely felt more in my element here!

</comment><comment><USER56> Practically every open space in Seattle hosts an unauthorized homeless encampment.

Many downtown workers (including me) have to step over or around garbage, feces, used needles, tents, sleeping bags, passed out junkies/drunks, and so on, every time they come to work or leave their office. Not to mention the odors.

</comment><comment><USER57> I came from a similar place to yourself and agree with your comments.

When I came to SF, I couldn't help but stare at stark poverty. I came from a much smaller place that lacked all of these problems. But what you described is true; after a few months your brain normalizes to the dystopia, and that in itself is scary.

I've been in the bay area 12 years now, and can't imagine moving out of California, but at the same time feel that things here are out of balance and somehow 'wrong'. But I also feel like I don't know where I'd go. We talk about Vancouver, or San Diego, but realistically I don't even know what I'd do in those cities.

</comment><comment><USER58> FTA: _" When I first moved to San Francisco, one of my friends told me on the phone "it takes about 1-2 months to no longer really see the homeless"."_

That's.... pretty horrible, really.

<comment><USER59> It worries me some days that I've become so desensitized I barely notice it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER60> This is not the first article about SF where i read about used needles and people defecating everywhere.

Being from a third world country i have never seen human waste on the street. I think something is very wrong in SF.

Also, earlier this week i read this [1] twitter thread from Casey Muratori on the topic, looks relevant.

[1] [https://twitter.com/cmuratori/status/1080580967268376577](https://twitter.com/cmuratori/status/1080580967268376577)

</comment><comment><USER52> Just tired of hearing about SF (and NY or Seattle for that matter), It is run by the same people who complain about the conditions there. You can make a good living as a SE in other cities like Austin, Houston, or even Denver which are a lot more affordable and doesn't have the sheer concentration of homelessness and poverty.

</comment><comment><USER61> > I can't help wondering though that the only reason Silicon Valley and the > Bay Area has been so prosperous is because it's in a country where generally > people are comfortable with having so much wealth, while having so many > people live under the poverty line.

</comment><comment><USER62> I lived in the South Bay for ~5 years while I was going to university there. I liked it, but also hated it.

People everywhere, bad drivers, lots of arrogance etc, but now looking back there many great moments that I kind of miss.

One of them is that I loved travelling and exploring in the US. There is just always something to do. Also you meet nice people almost everywhere. So it was quite easy to make friends instantly.

If the visa situation wasn't so bad, I think I'd go back now that I took a break from the Bay Area Craziness.

To me living in Europe makes more sense (more stable and secure), but life in the US is somehow more fun. That is until you run out of money (be it because of medical bills or because you got sued...)

<comment><USER43> > To me living in Europe makes more sense (more stable and secure), but life > in the US is somehow more fun. That is until you run out of money (be it > because of medical bills or because you got sued...)

yes, European countries tend to have much better safety nets, but they also come with significantly higher taxes. as a software engineer in the states, you can also expect to get paid about twice as much for the same work. there may be some good reasons to prefer Europe, but they probably aren't economic.

</comment></comment><comment><USER63> Funny enough I worked at Yelp too and one of the reasons why I decided to move back to Europe was what you wrote :)

"There is a lot of money, but not a lot of wealth."

</comment><comment><USER64> And yet nothing will change as there is too much insecurity in this climate. Everyone is serving themselves for the sake of security down the line.</comment>


App.net and a paid user ecosystem - <AUTHOR> http://n1c.github.com/appnet-and-a-paid-user-ecosystem/

<comment><USER2> People, not the least of which is the founder, keep proposing plans to divvy up the App.net subscription fee among third party app providers.

Such schemes worry me. The incentives are all wrong. App developers must fight each other for their share of a fixed number of dollars-per-customer. It'll be like _Lord of the Flies_ in the app store. This is no way to grow a developer community. It'll be trade secrets and whispers and bitterness and dirty tricks.

As more and more popular apps come out, your revenue-per-user will tend to drop irrespective of the virtues of your own app.

How does one set the overall price? Pricing a simple service is hard enough.

And how much energy will App.net dissipate in building a complex profit- sharing infrastructure, adjudicating disputes, policing new and exciting forms of fraud?

Keep it simple.

</comment><comment><USER3> _> Sure there will be some complexity around what defines your cut_

This glosses over the whole problem with this model. The more apps there are, the more you have to share out the subscription income. At some point, there will be so many apps that there is not enough subscription income to cover them. And how do you judge the value of each app?

Besides that, I really don't see the problem with ads. I buy things all the time, I want people to sell to me. What I don't want is people selling me crap I don't want, but I have zero problem with people selling me crap I do want.

I'm perfectly able to filter advertising online, it does not interfere with my browsing at all.

Ads aren't the problem. Privacy is the problem. But you got to let sellers know what you're interested in for them to sell you the right stuff.

<comment><USER4> Ads are the problem, because they turn you from the customer into the product. When the site starts tuning itself to produce more clicks for the advertisers, rather than for a better user experience, that is a problem.

<comment><USER3> It's not as clear cut as that.

Advertisers expect viewers > viewers expect a good product

Why would a company, whose revenue depends on lots of users, build a crappy product that loses them those users and hence the advertising money?

Ads are not the problem. You can still build a good product based on advertising revenue.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> It's also zero-sum, which is self-defeating.

<comment><USER6> well theoretically, as the more apps come in, more users will join, so there will be more wealth to be spread around. Though - I don't see myself paying for a social network ever.

<comment><USER2> This is a bad way to think. Many of the costs of running a business are per- user, so revenue must also be measured per-user.

As users join the per-user revenue stays the same (to first order) but as apps join the revenue-per-user-per-app tends to drop.</comment></comment></comment>


GM mosquito release halted on the Grand Cayman - crypto-jeronimo https://www.caymancompass.com/2018/11/13/gm-mosquito-release-halted/ <comment><AUTHOR> I feel like Verily's non-GMO approach of using a robotic system to sort out sterile males generated the old-fashioned (radioactive) way offers a compelling alternative.

I'm far from anti-GMO, but the fact that there could be an alternative and that Oxitec's approach doesn't offer compelling advantages over that would give me pause.

Oxitec uses tetracycline to supress expression of the self-limiting gene in the captive state. However, there will always be some genetic mutations and given a large enough population you will get mutants that inactivate the transgene and could potentially lead to those gene copies spreading in the wild

[https://www.oxitec.com/our-technology/](https://www.oxitec.com/our- technology/)</comment>


Project Nashorn - lightweight high-performance JavaScript runtime in Java - <AUTHOR> http://openjdk.java.net/projects/nashorn/ <comment><USER2> Am I correct in assuming that Nashorn is to Java as Lua is to C/C++? That is, that this is meant to embed JS as a scripting language in a Java program rather than to be used to run existing node or browser code?</comment>


Image super-resolution through deep learning – GitHub - david-gpu https://github.com/david-gpu/srez <comment> david-gpu Author here -- first time submitting anything to HN. Please let me know if you have any suggestions.

<comment><AUTHOR> would love to see some non-faces examples

<comment> david-gpu It's on the way. That particular network was trained with a face dataset.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER2> Fantastic result!

It would be valuable to see statistics about how well this algorithm does against the face database itself. De-rez a sample of images from the database, up-rez them and then find them in the database using face recognition. How often is the original image identified from the up-rezzed version?

It would also be interesting to see how different the up-rez results are if the original is cropped differently, shifted, slightly rotated, darkened or lightened.

</comment><comment><USER3> Suuuper late to the discussion, but there is a project for anime-style images and denoising that uses CNNs.

[https://github.com/nagadomi/waifu2x](https://github.com/nagadomi/waifu2x)

</comment><comment><USER4> Have you tried using it on surveillance photos (such as police requesting citizens help). These are often of poor quality.

<comment> david-gpu I have not done that yet, but that was basically my original motivation. The main difficulty would be obtaining a good dataset for training, specifically a dataset where most of the faces are not looking straight ahead at the camera, and where the camera is located above eye level as would be the case in a typical security camera.

<comment><USER5> from movies and classifier that looks through images.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Holy shit, Enhance is actually possible!

<comment><USER7> But only usable if you want to catch the wrong person.

<comment><USER8> Next step: Require photos from multiple angles of all your citizens. Feed into database.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Impressive! Would be great to see more examples.

</comment><comment><USER10> It would be more impressive to see the variety of features that could be the image in question. 16 possibilities if I am correct.

<comment> david-gpu Sorry, I don't understand. What sort of features are you thinking about? And why only 16 possibilities? There's a nearly infinite number of ways in which the average of 4x4 pixels can be a particular value.</comment></comment>


McAfee safe, EXIF data puts him in Guatemala, but he faked it - <AUTHOR> http://www.whoismcafee.com/another-apology/

<comment><AUTHOR> Vice Magazine's post that McAfee has safely left Belize: [http://www.vice.com/read/we-are-with-john-mcafee-right- now-s...](http://www.vice.com/read/we-are-with-john-mcafee-right-now-suckers)

His own post on the topic, saying he'll be returning to Belize: <http://www.whoismcafee.com/i-am-safe/>

Gizmodo post on the location revealed by the EXIF data: [http://gizmodo.com/5965295/vice-magazine-just- accidentally-r...](http://gizmodo.com/5965295/vice-magazine-just-accidentally- revealed-where-john-mcafee-is-hiding)

The apology on his blog comes after those three articles.

Surreal.</comment>


Firefox Lockbox – Take your passwords everywhere - sahin-boydas https://lockbox.firefox.com/ <comment><USER2> Am i missing something, or is this landing page really nothing more than a screenshot and an app button? I know minimal pages are trendy, but that seems like taking it a bit too far.

<comment><USER3> There are small, gray links at the bottom to a FAQs page and a GitHub account with the corresponding code.

<comment><USER4> It's not at all clear that FAQ link is tied to Lockbox; I usually associate small gray links at the bottom to be domain-wide boilerplate (privacy policies, getting a phone number to call support, etc).

I would have expected visiting from desktop web to tell me what the desktop counterpart to this mobile app is (probably either a call-to-action to install Firefox to use with this companion app, or a call-to-action to create a Firefox Sync account to store my passwords). I'm not going to type my hundreds of passwords from scratch using my iPhone keyboard; I'm going to want to import them from LastPass / Firefox / Chrome / Safari / Edge / 1Password / Bitwarden.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I think this is wonderful, but I have two concerns.

First, if there isn't a Chrome plugin, it's not going to be of much use to me. I still use Chrome on my laptop (for a multitude of reasons) and if Lockbox doesn't interoperate with it, it's not a useful tool.

Second, I worry about the longetivity of the project. Other than Firefox, Mozilla is not known for their long-term support of consumer products. Persona? Firefox OS? Thunderbird? I don't want to switch to a product that's only going to be retired in a year.

<comment><USER6> Firefox makes a desktop browser, though. Why should they provide a Chrome extension?

<comment><USER5> Because I could just as easily use a competing product that _does_ work with Chrome. An all-or-nothing mentality with (free consumer) software isn't a great way to acquire new users. Switching my primary browser to use a password manager that I like is a ridiculous decision.

<comment><USER7> This is a password manager for people who already have their passwords on Firefox... so I don't really think you're the target market here.

It basically allows you to use your FF passwords in your local apps

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I like this move into more consumer type applications from Mozilla. I'd be interested to see some of their newer stuff moving to a subscription model that supports Mozilla, I know you can make recurring donations but it seems like people are more interested in buying a product that supports the organization making it.

</comment><comment><USER9> Awfully buggy.

Just installed on Android. After syncing to my account it shows "no entries found", even though I have hundreds of saved logins in my Mozilla account.

Tried disconnecting my account in order to re-add it again, and can't find a way to do the latter. It just keeps showing the "Disconnect Firefox Lockbox" button, even though it (presumably) is already disconnected.

Will check back in a couple of months to see if it's more fully-baked. But right now this feels pretty pre-alpha.

<comment> firefox-lockbox This is great feedback. We are currently working on improvements on this specific finding. We'll continue to provide updates to make Firefox Lockbox a better experience. Thanks for trying and testing the app.

<comment><USER10> Can I make the suggestion of implementing folders or categories of some kind? That's a big feature that I care about that seems to be missing. And having the ability to create/edit entries from the phone app would be great

Regardless of those issues I think the app looks great! Thanks for your efforts

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> It's nice to see clear information on the metrics collected: [https://github.com/mozilla-lockbox/lockbox- android/blob/mast...](https://github.com/mozilla-lockbox/lockbox- android/blob/master/docs/metrics.md)

As long as it's clearly and openly communicated what telemetry is collected, I'm fine with an app collecting whatever information they want: I get to make the decision on whether I give up that information by (not) installing the app.

<comment><USER6> Is it opt-in?

<comment><USER12> Seems to be opt-out, at least it was enabled for me by default on Android. :/

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> This is very nice, especially since I use Firefox as my second password manager (I enabled "save passwords" because it's so handy). All it needs is better management and the ability to store more data in the DB, and I'm sold! OATH would be nice too.

</comment><comment><USER14> Does this have a value proposition over a standalone manager like Bitwarden? Saying this as an avowed firefox user and fan.

I long ago abandoned browser password managers due to awful security practices like storing passwords in plaintext in my browser profile. Bitwarden is full of features and works everywhere, too.

<comment><USER15> It's Mozilla, so they _should_ be more trustworthy with your data.

That being said, I agree with your critique. I am a 1Password customer and enjoy the fact that there are two passwords for my account (rendering keyloggers worthless).

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> What is the state of the art for building privacy conscious backends for applications like this? I really haven't seen a great platform that provides well documented and reasonably designed general purpose APIs for handling both encryption, sync, versioning, and conflict resolution.

Textile: [https://github.com/textileio/go- textile](https://github.com/textileio/go-textile) Based on IPFS so seems like your entire privacy rests in crypto

Bitwarden: [https://github.com/bitwarden/server/blob/master/README.md](https://github.com/bitwarden/server/blob/master/README.md) App works well but it doesn't seem like there is interest in making this general purpose, maybe because of the software stack choice?

Standard files: [https://standardfile.org/](https://standardfile.org/) Standard notes clobbers data if two devices make offline edits :(

<comment><USER17> > What is the state of the art for building privacy conscious backends for > applications like this?

This has actually become a core competency of Mozilla thanks to the infrastructure laid out for Firefox, which I think will be leveraged in their product strategy going forward.

<comment><USER16> Do you know where the code and design docs are for the backends? The wiki has so many out of date pointers.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> There is also a Notes app. [https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2018/07/10/introducing- firefox...](https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2018/07/10/introducing-firefoxs- first-mobile-test-pilot-experiments-lockbox-and-notes/)

</comment><comment><USER18> Neat, how does it compare to Bitwarden? Is it decoupled enough from the browser itself?

</comment><comment><USER19> I think it is great that Firefox is branching out of just browsers, and making its own ecosystem of products. However, it doesn't seem that necessary. The existing field is already pretty good imo.

<comment><USER20> I think password management is a good fit for Mozilla. I perceive Mozilla to be trustworthy and competent, and the code for this is open source: [https://github.com/mozilla-lockbox](https://github.com/mozilla-lockbox)

They also generally do a good job with UI, which is not true of all open source solutions. This may not be crucial for devs, but it's crucial if we want to share passwords with the non-devs in our lives.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> I've waited quite sometime for this to be released on Android so that it can be recommended to others. This is great news!

But there are a few more features that are necessary to make this truly standalone (these comments are based on the iOS version):

\- ability to create a Firefox sync account from this app.

\- ability to add entries in this app and manage them.

\- ability to import credentials from other applications (like 1Password, BitWarden, Lastpass, etc.).

<comment><USER22> Please let me import from another password manager! There's just too much friction involved in switching if I have to manually import all my existing passwords. And if I can't import them, then I have to keep my old password manager around until I'm sure that I've imported all my old logins by visiting all the sites in case the reset password email is linked to an address I no longer have access to. If I have to do that, there's no point in me switching because I'll never actually be sure I've got all the logins moved over.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> If there's anyone here who is working on this: Is anyone working on making this available through F-Droid?

</comment><comment><USER24> Works well on iOS. Integrates as a system-wide auto-fill option, so it works even in native apps.

Real Firefox is forbidden from being in the Apple AppStore, and only AppStore apps are allowed to sync with the iCloud keychain, so this is the next best alternative permissible in Apple's garden.

<comment><USER25> Firefox is also in the App Store, albeit "real" is a subjective term here since it's forced to use WebKit/WebView (as are all browsers on iOS) if that is what you were alluding to.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> The problem with firefox sync is that my search history and bookmarks are synced...which is non optimal when jumping between work and home computers. I use lastpass to sync my passwords..but would consider alternatives...lastpass performance has degraded lately.

<comment><USER27> I'm in the same boat you are. I'm considering alternatives to Lastpass, mostly because the client has gotten worse over the past few years (since they were picked up by LogMeIn). I don't mind price hikes, but I don't feel as if I've gotten a commensurate increase in the utility or smoothness of the application (though I've certainly noticed an uptick in bugs).

My big thing is the integration of the Yubikey, which is almost mandatory. Bitwarden has this, but their recent security assessment had a showstopper, as far as I'm, concerned:

'BWN-01-010 – Changing the master password does not change encryption keys'

[https://cdn.bitwarden.net/misc/Bitwarden%20Security%20Assess...](https://cdn.bitwarden.net/misc/Bitwarden%20Security%20Assessment%20Report.pdf)

If Bitwarden gets that fixed, I'd jump ship instantly. Otherwise, I may play with Firefox Lockbox and see where that gets me.

<comment><USER28> > Resolution

> An option to rotate the encryption key and mac key has been added to the > change password operation. Rotating the keys will generate new, random key > values and re-encrypt all vault data with these new keys.

<comment><USER27> Thanks for that. Some of the news sites I had been reading had neglected to mention this (and to be fair, I neglected to catch it) this, and I could swear some had reported that Bitwarden had claimed that this was a difficult issue to solve, and would likely not be implementing it in the near future. Information overload, I guess.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> I use Pass[0] with GnuPG and a private git repository for storing encrypted passwords. There is an Android client for it on F-Droid. It is a bit of work to bootstrap it but I like it a lot.

[0]: [https://www.passwordstore.org/](https://www.passwordstore.org/)

</comment><comment><USER30> how does the sync/conflic resolution work? (I'm aware it's firefox long standing "sync" product) are there some docs?

I've been burned by dropbox synced keepass password management before...

<comment><USER24> It uses the same account as Firefox's Sync, and the sync feature has been reliable for me.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> It would be nice if it would support custom sync servers. I'm using a custom sync server with Firefox and therefore Lockbox does does not show any of my passwords after login.

</comment><comment><USER31> I love having a better front end for my Firefox passwords.

</comment><comment><USER32> Feature request: It would be nice to allow adding entries by hand. There are sites that avoid at all cost to let browsers to remember passwords.

</comment><comment><USER33> I'm on the Android Q beta and trying to open the sign in link LockBox send's you causes Firefox to crash over and over it look's like.

<comment><USER34> A lot of things are broken in the Android Q beta, to be fair.

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> Wonderful, have been waiting for this for a long time. At one point I thought of developing my self.

But 43mb for password sync app?? Is it not too much?

<comment><USER36> Not an explanation or saying its right or wrong, just a comment - <AUTHOR> under 100mb (on my personal computer or smartphone) to me is small enough as to be statistically insignificant in my mental model. I saw 43mb and thought it was kind of slim.

Born in '88 for context, the smallest primary storage device I can remember using was a 20mb HDD on a hand-me-down 486 I got one birthday.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> Any advantages compared to Keepass2Android?

</comment><comment><USER38> This is great, I use `about:logins` on Android FF when I need this; I'll gladly use this instead.

</comment><comment><USER39> Doesn't Firefox "Sync" (a standard feature) already solve this more or less?

<comment><USER40> Lockbox is effectively a client for Sync which is decoupled from Firefox itself.

This means, for example, even if you browse with Chrome on Android, you can still access and auto-fill all of the passwords you have saved in your desktop Firefox.

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> So whats different from Firefox Sync which already just works for centuries now?

<comment><USER42> You don't need Firefox. It's a stand-alone app.

<comment><USER41> Apparently you still need a Firefox account though. I can appreciate it being stand alone I guess. It is a little too late for me now that I have Bitwarden though.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> Requires Android 7.0 and up :(</comment>


Ron Gilbert's Game Revealed. The Cave - <AUTHOR> http://grumpygamer.com/6386281

<comment><AUTHOR> For those who lived the adventure genre's golden era, Ron is the mastermind behind Monkey Island and Maniac Mansion.</comment>


Ask HN: How do apps get posted on Product Hunt? - <AUTHOR> I know that hunters post them but what I mean is .. How do they make it to the point they get noticed by someone? <comment><USER2> [https://medium.com/@benjiwheeler/how-product-hunt-really- wor...](https://medium.com/@benjiwheeler/how-product-hunt-really- works-d8fdcda1da74) discussed here [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10739875](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10739875) argues that knowing people on the inside is the best approach (sadly)

<comment><AUTHOR> Very interesting article and discussion! Thanks for the heads up

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> From what I have seen on PH, you are guaranteed best results if the person "hunting" the app is a PH poweruser or an influencer in general.

</comment><comment><USER4> This is quite difficult. Basically the only working trick is to be friend with Ryan Hoover.</comment>


Django Testing with a Jenkins Docker Container - <AUTHOR> http://vmtrooper.com/django-testing-in-a-jenkins-docker-container/ <comment><AUTHOR> Hey Fellow Hacker News Readers,

I was curious to see how simple it would be to extend the official Jenkins container to support Django and the django-jenkins Python module. I wrote up my experiences in the attached blog post. Let me know what you think!

-Trevor</comment>


HP 15C Scientific Calculator now available at buy.com - <AUTHOR> http://www.buy.com/prod/hp-15c-scientific-calculator/223173356.html

<comment><AUTHOR> $79.88, free shipping

A $5 off coupon for purchases over $75

<http://www.buy.com/retail/coupon.asp?prid=85094736>

over 1,000 in stock at the moment

<comment><USER2> The enthusiasts are questioning if buy.com really has stock. See TW's comment at [http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi- sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/forum.cgi?r...](http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi- sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/forum.cgi?read=193631#193631)

<comment><AUTHOR> right. nobody knew where buy.com obtained all those units before anyone else. HP Museum Forum has some interesting information, e.g. WP 34S project.</comment></comment></comment>


MySQL InnoDB Clustered Indexes and Rails (or How RescueTime Avoided Buying More Hardware) - <AUTHOR> http://www.joehruska.com/?p=6

<comment><USER2> I don't know much about InnoDB's clustered index, but if it is like Oracles IOT's, then normally its more expensive to do inserts (than for a heap table) as it has to put the data into a specific place, but cheaper to find related data when its queried due to all the data being stored together.

In this case, that extra 'expense' was easily off-set by the savings giving a great speed up. It does teach a good lesson though, which is index as little as possible by using composite indexes where you can!

In databases its amazing how 1 bad table/query/index can hose the performance of the either database - and once you find it, you get such a performance boost!

</comment><comment><USER3> There are a lot of optimization tricks you could do with an app like rescuetime.

1\. Buffer inserts on two levels: a. In-memory at the application level (if it crashes and you lose a few seconds' worth of data, it is not the end of the world). You can now do bulk inserts. b. Use MySQL's delayed insert buffer.

2\. Split the data into separate tables for each duration interval so that you don't have one massive table.

<comment><USER4> 1) Delayed inserts do not work with InnoDB tables.

2) This is a great idea for time based data. You age out the tables and create a merge table which is a logical view of all the tables together. You can get tricky and use compressed myisam tables for the older, static data since it will never change.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> My startup has similar data volumes and reporting needs to rescuetime, and also runs rails on the backend. We found that traditional data warehousing techniques, and specifically running a MOLAP parallel to the SQL database, solved the performance problems so soundly that we could put 10x as many charts on a page and enabled data-slicing possibilities that were previously out of the question with the highly tuned SQL route. We were also able to get rid of all of the extra model code we had written to manage aggregations. See <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_analytical_processing> for more background info if you're interested.

<comment><USER6> I'd love to talk to you regarding your MOLAP implementation with RoR. I had previously taken a brief look at ActiveWarehouse as a potential solution, but put that on the back burner as we are currently in a very fast iterative development mode - having launched just a couple of months ago. My last 16 years of database experience have been grounded in Oracle (oh Oracle 6 how I don't miss thee...) so I am fairly familiar with the the "Oracle" solution and storage of MOLAP cubes in Oracle Express, but am a complete noob when it comes to the OSS solutions. Any insight into your learning experiences would be most welcome!

<comment><USER5> email me at the address in my profile and we can talk

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> You can thank DHH for the dumbing down of Rails' databases. Everything should be in your app, don't you know?

</comment><comment><USER8> Anyone have any my.conf examples for a good InnoDB setup?

<comment><USER6> Here is a sample configuration that we use for RescueTime, it's fairly InnoDB centric. <http://www.joehruska.com/?p=7>

<comment><USER8> Joe, thank you!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Thanks, Joe. This post rocks.</comment>


How to Organize an Epic Startup Weekend - <AUTHOR> http://getexmo.tumblr.com/post/59606096987/how-to-organize-an-epic-startup-weekend

<comment><USER3> Take a bunch of strangers and give them 72 hours to organize into teams and bring someone's brain child to life... yea, better have your ducks in a row as an organizer. I would think that any tools that a startup weekend organizer could use to make it easier for attendees to navigate through the weekend would be a huge plus. solid article. thanks.

</comment><comment><USER4> If you haven't attended a Startup Weekend, you must! Actually launch a business: Over 36% of Startup Weekend startups are still going strong after 3 months. Roughly 80% of participants plan on continuing working with their team or startup after the weekend.

</comment><comment><USER5> I actually went to my first Startup Weekend this year. It's interesting to read about what goes into making it happen.

I definitely want to go to another SW. Does anyone know how many lasting companies actually make it out of these events?

<comment><USER4> Actually launch a business: Over 36% of Startup Weekend startups are still going strong after 3 months. Roughly 80% of participants plan on continuing working with their team or startup after the weekend. - <USER2>

<comment><USER6> I actually came to ask the same question as hnncl... I thought it was something like 30% of SW teams that end up incorporating, but I can't remember where heard that figure.

Its awesome that you actually launched a business from it. Congrats!!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> This was awesome post. As a Startup Weekend organizer myself this is what I needed

</comment><comment><USER8> EPIC!!!!!!!!! THank you for sharing this!!!!!!!!!

</comment><comment><USER9> Great post thanks for sharing!</comment>


Inventor makes energy efficient stove - <AUTHOR> http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-stoveguy28nov28,0,2680325,full.story?coll=la-home-business

<comment><USER2> Hm. There are a lot of stoves to this general pattern. The electricity is only a few watts and drives efficient combustion.

Here's one from an American firm: <http://www.woodgascampstove.com/>

Philips has one too: [http://www.research.philips.com/newscenter/archive/2006/0602...](http://www.research.philips.com/newscenter/archive/2006/060227-woodstove.html)

The Hexayurt (<http://hexayurt.com>) infrastructure package specifies a stove in this general class:

[http://files.howtolivewiki.com/TIDES%20-%20Hexayurt%20Infras...](http://files.howtolivewiki.com/TIDES%20-%20Hexayurt%20Infrastructure.pdf)

It'll be interesting to see if, when all is said and done, he's come up with something new, though. None of these stoves reach the 95% level of efficiency he was discussing in the article.

</comment><comment><USER3> "when the electricity goes out, she can't use the Turbococina because it needs the fans to move air into the combustion chambers."

That sounds like a major deficiency to me. If the people have electricity, why not just use an electric stove to begin with?</comment>