Learn to sell - <AUTHOR> http://blairreeves.me/2017/12/06/learn-to-sell/ <comment><USER2> This is really important. I love programming and am somewhat introverted, but being newlywed with a wife who couldn't work (visa), a mortgage, and a commission plan really made me learn to sell. The really good salespeople aren't deceptive, and I luckily learned from them.

Also: if you're at a good company the engineers don't scorn the sales people (instead: "you guys bring in the money that pays our salaries") and the sales folks actually sell the product to people who will benefit from it.

<comment><USER3> I've always tried to sit in on a few sales calls at any place I've worked and have encouraged people working for me to do the same. It's valuable to see your products from the Sales team and customer perspective. The surprising thing I've observed is how great sales people spend most of the call listening to problems, not offering solutions.

<comment><USER2> I always have every member of the exec team attend a sales call per quarter. Yep, even the CFO. Amazing the impact it has on the staff meetings, much less the decisions made.

<comment><USER4> Amen. If everyone at the org can't describe at least one type of customer for the product, _in detail_ , then there's something wrong.

And this _definitely_ includes software engineers.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> The life of an engineer is a life if sacrifice and 7 days a week work for five days pay. Often you never have a partner so you're the most highly taxed people in the country especially in California. While you often work triple time you're rarely if ever paid for overtime it's taken for granted that you're not ever compensated for 3/4 of the hours you work. Nothing can happen without you but sales people get a piece if the business they get normal business hours and can have a life and a family don't learn to code learn to sell this is terrific advice. At least you get commission and not worthless options in exchange for living off half the sleep a normal worker gets and continuous change and upheaval so you never get to have a life outside of work. Also continual layoffs and churn and then extra taxation when you are unemployed all told the life of an engineer is like the life of the slaves who row the cars on the Viking ship lol.

<comment><USER6> Why don't you leave then? There are jobs everywhere.

Even in the smallest town in middle on nowhere (say Montana) you can find a job. It might not be a perfect fit for your skills, but you can find one. There are thousands of small towns scattered across the US with some little company that makes something obscure but essential to society. Example: you probably never think about sewage pumps (not the treatment plant, just the pumps by the side of the road) - they are essential to society though and somebody needs to write the software that controls them. Why not you?

Of course moving implys a lot of changes. You can't go to a Broadway show (you live in California so you can't anyway - which is why I use this example), the community musical in the next town it pretty good though and the fact that they are not on the level of Broadway makes them fun in a different way. Or maybe you can find a different activity to fill your life with once you limit yourself to 9-5 plus the 15 minute walk each way to the other side of town to get home.

Of course there is nothing wrong with Montreal that the other poster mentioned. It is a nice city if you decide that a city life is for you. Of course it is in Canada which might be a negative for you, but you can still choose from any of several hundred cities scattered around the country. Nothing wrong with any of them either. All have specific advantages and disadvantages.

<comment><USER7> >(say Montana)

While most of what you say is true - that there really are jobs everywhere - Montana is actually tough. I really want to move to Montana and have seriously struggled finding something to fit my skills.

The alternative plan is to figure out a remote gig and then truly live wherever you want

<comment><USER8> sofi.com - they're hiring a lot of technical roles in Helena.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> When I cofounded my first startup, I had to participate in the sales calls (most of them). It was a very illuminating experience. Now, in my second one, I often lead the charge.

As an engineer, you start to understand why sales people overcommit, oversell, and overpromise. Why they can't produce a sale. It's not always their fault. But the good ones normally know what works and what doesn't. A good sales person:

* knows or takes time to learn the product to the point of a junior techie

* tries hard to work in tandem with the techies

* is NOT a frat boy / girl, but knows to talk to people of all walks of life, and in today's globalised world, of all backgrounds

* has the character to say "no" when it's better to walk away

* is at least in their late 30s or older

* a great listener trying to solve the customer's problem, not push a new shiny toy

* mature enough to lead a company.

While over-selling, "make-a-buck-now-lose-everything-later" idiots prevail, sales jobs are tough. It is hard for us engineers to grasp sometimes what is means to have your compensation ALWAYS be tied to some figures - so-called "performance", which is a combination of your ability to convince, the market, and the products you are selling. Imagine that, as an engineer, you'd get a deduction for every bug the customer discovers; feels different, doesn't it?

For a great fictional portrayal of a (pre-tech but enterprise) sales person's life, watch "The Big Kahuna".

</comment><comment><USER10> One of my first jobs out of college was software sales. Really opened my eyes to the absurdity of that industry.

Very wolf of wallstreeet-esque. The tech was mostly repackaged opensource software with a nicer UI and the senior sales guys were doing copious drugs and bringing down like six figure commissions on multi-million dollar contracts. They hired an army of associates to generate leads and then swooped in to grab the commission. The play was to cold call the shit of company, weasel you way into a decision maker's schedule, and basically roll the dice they might buy your software because they needed to check a box - it barely mattered what the thing actually did and beyond a well rehearsed script no one understood even the basics of the technology/problem space. It was also very feast or famine - a few made absurd cash but most lived on a precarious edge where they felt they might be fired at any moment.

Understanding this is how the world actually works was a valuable education. I do feel with the rise of 'big tech' things have improved a bit and there is a renewed interest in approaching business problems with data and something that approximates a pseudo objective science-like process. But barely.

<comment><USER11> The rise of big tech is basically a market response to decision-makers who acted like you observed. When you've got a bunch of executives who will drop millions of dollars on open-source software because they needed to check a box, that's a huge economic inefficiency waiting to be arbitraged away. What "big tech" founder/CEOs did was say "Well, I understand the technology, I can learn the domain knowledge more easily than these buffoons can learn the technology, how would I build a company from the ground up to compete directly with them and steal all their customers rather than playing the sales game?"

And with a suitably driven, intelligent, and business-savvy founder, it works [1]. The whole "software is eating the world" philosophy is based on the idea that it's better to go radically vertical and bring technology straight to the consumer rather than deal with the inefficiencies of enterprise sales.

[1] Kind of. The key here is "suitably driven, intelligent, and business savvy founder." Most technologists are not such - they not only don't know the domain, they don't care enough about it to learn. So there's been a bit of a pullback to traditional enterprise sales for SaaS businesses in the last couple years; many of the consumer markets that have _not_ yet been revolutionized by big tech have pretty thorny barriers to entry that no technologist has yet found their way around.

<comment><USER12> How do you have such insight? If you can produce such insight so easily, surely you must be a very successful investor? This is such a strong perspective it seems.

<comment><USER11> I've done okay. :-)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> > It doesn't matter how brilliant your software engineering is if no one buys > it.

That goes both ways. The problems arise when sales start dictating how engineers do their work. The point is you need _both_, and they each need to respect the others work... unless you want to run a company like orcale and milk products into destruction, but then as we know - oracle doesn't invest in the future of their products.

<comment><USER14> Not a perfect metaphor, because the tasks are so different, but it's kind of like a coach and a GM in football. If they're not on the same page, they make each other look worse.

<comment><USER13> perhaps not but:

> If they're not on the same page, they make each other look worse

This is right, engineers need to understand the problems that their end users have and of those problems those that severely affect sales should be considered carefully...

however what seems to happen more often is sales or management end up dictating the solution to a problem... but software solutions are software engineers jobs.

This happens to me so commonly but thankfully I do not work in a company with a rigid hierarchy, which means rather than being forced to blindly follow a request I go and find out the context that this request originated from, understand the problem and then propose a suitable solution - everyone is _always_ happier. But this requires autonomy and respect from all members, something that rigid hierarchies appear to sometimes oppress (but then I've only ever been a lucky observer of such institutions so maybe i'm wrong).

<comment><USER14> That sounds very annoying, and I infer that some people have it even worse. What efforts do you see upper management making to bring the two sides together? I notice that as I get to know someone better, I can understand our differences by understanding the ways in which we process information differently. Of course there will be exceptions, but sales people and engineers (beyond their tasks/goals being different) have different strengths and weaknesses as people and processors; sometimes the differences aren't better or worse - just different. Day-to-day, how often do sales people and engineers problem solve together?

<comment><USER13> > I notice that as I get to know someone better, I can understand our > differences by understanding the ways in which we process information > differently. Of course there will be exceptions, but sales people and > engineers (beyond their tasks/goals being different) have different > strengths and weaknesses as people and processors...]

In my small experience I actually find the "role" to be the overriding factor in determining how an individual processes information, because their "problem" defines their perspective.

> how often do sales people and engineers problem solve together?

I'm breaking definitions here a bit because in the context I am drawing upon sales are not a generic salesman, but someone who has a deep understanding of the fairly niche and complex activity the customers are doing, actually they are scientists, but not coders, so I suppose that is quite unlike the ordinary salesman to be fair ... but In this context I find that first recognising our quite different perspectives and then trying to make each other understand our different perspective allows us to extract the relevant understanding from each other to converge on a reasonable solution (or not, sometimes once you both understand the problem better from both ends you realise it's actually something else entirely, or that attempting a solution would be a fools errand).

I find this extra step invaluable because I have more empathy with the real problem using their expert knowledge of the customer and activity, and they have empathy with the potential technical challenges at hand, and as a result are more willing to accept alternatives in the knowledge of the real technical cost. I can't say how applicable it would be to collaborating with a more generic sales department though.

It doesn't really matter who instigates that mixing of perspectives, but I find as a coder I have a tendency to zoom in and out of contexts more to better understand a problem... it's not much of a step to keep zooming out / panning until you can start digging into the perspectives of your peers.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Just don't be one of the salespeople that promises the client a feature that doesn't exist, then returns to the team after making the sale and says "You have to build this now." F--- that noise.

<comment><USER16> I literally just did exactly that half an hour ago.

Of course, it's my company and I'm both the salesperson and engineer, but sometimes you have to sell shit that doesn't exist yet.

<comment> EKLM-ZK88 I think the issue he's talking about is more along the lines of "hey we promised X _and_ that we could deliver it in Y" when Y is an unreasonable amount of time. Situations like that almost always lead to death marches in my experience.

<comment><USER17> hopefully you will never see the the salesperson charging into the engineer meeting yelling "I promised the customer 6 months ago that we would ship this feature in 3 months, where the hell is it" at a sea of faces that had clearly never heard of any such thing.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> As a sales leader and consultant, I kept being asked to offer weekly personalized sales coaching for technical founders. I launched it a few weeks ago and so far it's been pretty great for both parties.

Being able to sit down on a weekly basis to game plan the sales approach, go over calls, and hold them accountable has been immeasurable.

p.s. if anyone is interested - I'm in the process of launching a "Selling 101" online course for founders to cover the fundamentals of sales (finding leads, cold calling, performing demonstrations, closing deals, etc).

<comment><USER19> Not sure you saw the 2017 First Round State of Venture survey [6] results, but anxiety over hiring sales staff has become the No. 1 priority for startup founders (was tech staff). I think you're on to something... assuming you focus on startups, maybe Pre-A round?

[6] [http://stateofstartups.firstround.com/2017/#introduction](http://stateofstartups.firstround.com/2017/#introduction)

<comment><USER18> Yeah, was definitely interesting to see that. That's exactly the intended focus. Essentially a crash course for tech founders to start selling in their early days.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Does anyone have any book suggestions for an engineer who wants to learn sales / convincing people?

Do you recommend doing trial by fire and getting a sales job?

I've realized that I am good at the technicals but terrible at selling why people should do what I say.

<comment><USER21> First, read Dale Carnegie's "How to win friends and influence people." Don't let the cheesy title turn you off. The book is tremendous and a fun read and has been a literal best seller continuously since it was written more than 50 years ago.

<comment><USER20> >First, read Dale Carnegie's "How to win friends and influence people."

Already done. I am currently reading "7 Habits of Highly Effective People". How to Win Friends majorly influenced me already.

Do you believe the methods explained in How to Win Friends are sufficient? They have absolutely helped already but I am not sure if it is just a matter continuing to apply or if there is another that could help level me up more.

EDIT: Also on the reading list is Purple Cow by Seth Godin. I've heard good things about it and the first ~20 pages were pretty good.

<comment><USER21> After starting with Dale Carnegie's book I'd move to something more about the storytelling aspects so you can construct your pitches well in addition to interacting well.

I don't have a "great" book to recommend there, but an example that pops to mind might be Say it in six[0]. This sort of book tends to be more formulaic, less universal, and every book advocates a completely different formula so you need to find the approach and style that works for you. That said, understanding that a pitch is a structured story and thinking about how to structure them is incredibly valuable.

Simon Sinek's Ted talk[1] is also really fun and well worth watching (and worth deconstructing how he makes his pitch about how to make pitches), but it's more about high level consumer brand design than the inside the company project pitching like I think you're asking about.

[0] [https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1629833.Say_It_in_Six](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1629833.Say_It_in_Six)

[1] [https://www.ted.com/talks/simon_sinek_how_great_leaders_insp...](https://www.ted.com/talks/simon_sinek_how_great_leaders_inspire_action/up- next)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> As an engineer coming into sales I found the thing I love about sales is that it is problem solving. If you can get in the door the main thing is you are solving a problem for your prospective client. That is no different from engineering you are interfacing with people instead of computers.

There are some great books on sales and why sales gets a bad rap is most sales people don't seem to have read those books. I now have a critical eye for sales stuff like you can have for code and just see how bad most sales are done.

<comment><USER23> Love to hear which sales books you consider great

<comment><USER22> \- The challenger sale \- Snap selling \- Little red book of selling \- Spin selling \- thinking fast and slow

All of these are of the mindset of help your customer first and foremost, the sale is a secondary effect of the helping. And given my nature that has made sales a lot easier since I'm not an extroverted manipulator, I'm an introverted problem solver.

<comment><USER23> thanks

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> If anyone is interested I did a recent interview on CEO Library[0] where I dropped a bunch of book recommendations on selling products, services and yourself.

I personally sell online video training courses for developers so it's something I've been hyper focused on for the last 2 years. During that time about 20,000 people have signed up to at least 1 of my paid courses.

I think becoming slightly better at selling has also made me a much better programmer, because your mindset shifts entirely. It's not just about naming things too. It's easier to see the bigger picture on something. It helps scope the entire project.

[0]: [https://www.theceolibrary.com/nick- janetakis-2771.html](https://www.theceolibrary.com/nick-janetakis-2771.html)

</comment><comment><USER25> I agree with the author of the article that sales is important to any organization. It's a chicken and egg game between engineering and sales. No sales means no customer but no engineer means no product. I feel like sales gets a bad rep from engineering because whenever we do projects, it feels like we do the work and they get the glory and money (which may or may not be true). The worse is when a company cuts out engineers from the decision process for project requirements. We end up being liable to lucrative claims that other make.

That being said, I absolutely DISAGREE that everyone should get some hands-on sales experience. Just like how not everyone is suited for engineering, not everyone is suited for sales. The author comes from a product management role so I would guess s/he is more extroverted than most engineers. I have met many design engineers that are ridiculously introverted. However, that's the beautiful thing about engineering. It doesn't matter. If you can design something that solves the customers problem, then you are doing a good job. A good manager would make sure a good design engineer get's shielded from the political bs. Unfortunately, the engineering culture is turning into a culture where we promote those with charisma rather than a good designing skillset.

<comment><USER26> Many of the best sales people are introverted. It can be a very strong advantage when you need to ask insightful questions, actively listen, and project integrity. Strong extroverts can be very weak in those areas and many would kill for that last superpower in particular. Having done both roles I have no doubt that every engineer would benefit from learning about sales and having some practise in it. Regardless of whether they pursue it as a career, it is incredibly widely applicable in many areas of life, from selling your ideas, to getting jobs, to dating. If someone really sucks at it, they will benefit immeasurably throughout their life from being slightly less bad. They are basically handicapped without being aware of it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> > It doesn't matter how brilliant your software engineering is if no one buys > it.

Right, because so many people buy Facebook products, or Twitter, or Google...

Many, if not most, software products don't sell anything. While there are tons of problems with getting 100% of your revenue from ads, the fact remains that many companies don't have anything to sell to their consumers.

Of course, you have to make a good, sticky product, and so there is marketing involved... just not the sort of 1930s handshake-and-a-smile that this article seems to be describing.

That said, my own experience is biased (I currently work for a non-profit!), and so the snarkiness of this reply probably isn't warranted. Surely for many places, sales experience is valuable... but I certainly wouldn't rank it higher over software development, at least not with the places I've worked at.

<comment><USER28> Google revenue: 89b in 2016

Facebook revenue: 28b in 2016

More than 30k of Google's 80k employees on LinkedIn have titles including either "Sales" or "Account" (Account Executive, Account Manager, etc.). For Facebook it's 9k out of 26k.

Facebook and google both sell user attention to advertisers. Exxon deploys vast engineering resources to extract and collect oil, but it would be weird to say that because they don't receive payment from their wells and refineries that they don't make sales

<comment><USER29> Yes, ad sales finance the products. But most of the products are not sold. A product/content creator doesn't need to do sales, if they are willing sign up for whatever the ad business is offering ($X CPI, user activity data, etc). Only one side of a transaction needs to sell. The other can simply choose to accept an offer.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> On a side note, do people have good resources on how to learn 'sales' as a software engineer?

I know how to sell myself and concepts pretty well inside the organization. Getting money from customers is a while different ball game

</comment><comment><USER31> My counter argument is I've tried to take this advice multiple times in my life and each time came to the (re)conclusion that I will never be able to think of it as anything but lying and manufactured conflict. Some of us just don't have brains that allow for that kind of thinking, at least not without severe anxiety and discomfort.

I can't sell. I'll never be able to sell. I think that makes me feel like a more honest person. I'm okay with that trade off.

<comment><USER26> Sales is about discovering what people's real problems are and helping them find a solution. It's the polar opposite of inauthenticity, but there are an awful lot of clueless salespeople who are trying to live up to the stereotype they've seen in movies and which you are talking about. It's a strange job because in some ways it's like being a counsellor, but at the same time a ruthless numbers game (for the salesperson) and therefore very stressful for them.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> Outbound sales is a very good way to gain insights into the needs of your potential customers (What are you missing, are messing bad etc.). I can really recommend creating a culture where the Sales team has a good way to report their findings. They are the first line of (new) customer interactions.

</comment><comment><USER33> The article makes some valid points, but sales/marketing is just not for me.

I understand how important it is for my product, but I just don't enjoy it, and would rather pay someone else to do it for me.

Essentially, I would need a Jobs for my Woz, if I can ever aspire to be a Woz. :)

<comment><USER26> I used to have this same idea. I changed it when I looked into the costs of outsourcing sales vs outsourcing dev. Market rates are around 80:20 sales vs dev when outsourcing. That should tell you something about where money is made and where you may not want to limit your involvement. Funny you mention Jobs and Woz...

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> > Casting a wide net is simply part of the game, of course, but wasting your > prospect's time is bad selling. Every good sales professional knows this, > which is why the best ones put in the time, effort and attention to detail > to make their pitches – even the opening ones – as tailored and relevant as > possible.

The book "High Probability Selling" by Jacques Werth offers some good solutions to approaching sales with the intent of quickly connecting your product to the customers who want or need it most.

</comment><comment><USER35> That's pretty good. Unfortunately, the word 'salesman' is source of shivers for most of engineers. I had to develop some of those skills, and I've got say that was difficult but since you are required to improve your soft skills, that might become leverage even on your technical day-to-day tasks: it makes you more empathetic to other people.

</comment><comment><USER36> > I find it remarkable how little the tech world talks about software sales, > given how central it is to everything we do. Sales is the whole reason we > build anything; it's how we assign value to what we do.

Nope, not for consumer products. SF doesn't talk about sales because consumer products don't need sales at first.

<comment><USER37> > consumer products don't need sales

UH!?

Sales(money) is the blood of Any business. (Here I include Anything i.e. charities).

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> This sounds interesting in theory. As an engineer starting out, where would you specifically go to start on a sales career? I just looked at Craigslist and the ads look really sketchy. I'm thinking to come in and interview for am engineering role and then say, you know I was thinking..

</comment><comment><USER39> > Sales is the whole reason we build anything; it's how we assign value to > what we do.

What a sad sad statement.

<comment><USER40> Why?

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> I'm curious how the author thinks of marketing vs sales. And is sales as important in companies where the product is cheaper, like a $10-$20/month subscription, or is marketing more important in that scenario.

</comment><comment><USER42> Does anyone have a recommendation for a good book or an audio/video course on sales for beginners? I'd like to learn this skill in 2018...

<comment><USER18> I'll be launching mine shortly - I can let you know when it's live if you'd like.

<comment><USER42> Sure!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> s/sales/marketing every point stays valid

</comment><comment><USER44> tl;dr - Most of the article tries to justify why it's important to Learn to sell.

Actionable guidance:

"cold calling, sending tons of emails, doing prospect/company research and developing cold leads into warm ones"

and get a job in sales ("role", "experience", "career").

My personal project is a Chinese learning page.

[https://pingtype.github.io](https://pingtype.github.io)

I tried sending hundreds of emails, researching all the Chinese language centres in Taiwan to find contact email addresses for the department, and sometimes even the direct email addresses for the tutors. I wrote a short email explaining what my program does, and how it's helping me learn.

Nobody replied.

I made a YouTube video as an example of what it can do. I posted on Facebook, where my 3900 friends (who I all met face to face) mostly ignored it (29 likes).

I submitted it as a Show HN. Nobody up-voted it.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14907618](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14907618)

Can anybody give more helpful instructions?

I'm using Pingtype to read the Bible and song lyrics all the time, and my Chinese is improving - after failing with 9 other methods before.

[https://pingtype.github.io/docs/blog.html#failing](https://pingtype.github.io/docs/blog.html#failing)

I really get discouraged by the lack of interest though, and the "trial by fire" of being ignored by the world is really depressing. For me there's no "uncertainty being on a quota compensation plan" \- I would certainly be broke.

<comment><USER37> Hi Peter, this might sound harsh, but first of all

1.- Get a domain.com to look more professional otherwise if I see "GitHub.io" looks like a code repository Pick a better name for your product. Right now it doesn't mean anything (i.e. dropbox reminds people of storage, submittable.com also sounds like form management, hope you get the idea)

2.- Look at well designed websites (i.e Invision, xero.com, mint.com. stripe.com) and notice the difference.

3.- Copy. There's zero copy. Check mailchimp.com for great voice and tone.

4.- No Pricing info, policy, FAQ, etc.

5.- A short 1-2 minutes explainer Video (optional)

6.- Look at well done explainer videos

7.- The landing page doesn't necessarily have to be all flashy, check this one for a simple one: [https://visualping.io](https://visualping.io)

8.- Important: Get feedback from people, I've used this: [https://userinput.io/](https://userinput.io/)

9.- Also, forget HN, PH, etc., go after offline people or try more creative ways to reach people directly.

<comment><USER44> 1., 4., and 8. - it's free. There is no pricing, no income to pay for a domain or paid feedback.

2\. It will load slower, and not work on all platforms.

3\. You're supposed to copy-paste. There's lots of examples in the blog or other links from the headings.

5\. and 6. Example video to inspire me?

7\. That's useful, thank you. What if the landing page is a subpage? e.g. The blog.

9\. My girlfriend already told me I talk too much about it in real life that it's making people not want to talk to me.

<comment><USER45> By copy, I think he meant the writing of the page, copywriting. Please pursue the below links, you may find them helpful. I also recommend redesigning the site to be little more visually appealing.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11469889](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11469889)

[https://medium.com/@InVisionApp/10-ux-copywriting-tips- for-d...](https://medium.com/@InVisionApp/10-ux-copywriting-tips-for- designers-966fd3e4f932)

[https://medium.com/talking-microcopy-writing-ux/go-to- guide-...](https://medium.com/talking-microcopy-writing-ux/go-to-guide-for-ux- writers-copywriters-and-content-strategists-3f216e0a0aa0)

<comment><USER44> I know what copy is. Google Translate doesn't have any copy either, and they serve 200 million people daily.

This is a tool, not a cover letter for a business.

<comment><USER46> man you're destined for failure. you ask for advice and someone actually takes time to give you very good advice and you not only once but twice behave defensively. I'm in the same position as you and I'm going to implement literally every single thing sogen recommended because I don't care about being wrong I care about succeeding.

<comment><USER37> 10.- validate first (ie Buffer, Zapier)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER47> This is really good stuff.

<comment><USER48> This.</comment></comment>


IBM Model M keyboard Simulator - <AUTHOR> http://webwit.nl/input/kbsim/

<comment><USER2> That completely misses the point of the Model M.

It's not just the noise - it's the tactile feedback. That was a keyboard on which, when you pressed a key, more than any other keyboard of its time or since -- they keyboard _fought back_.

That pleasant click? Yeah, the tactile component that went with that was a great source of repetitive stress injury.

<comment><USER3> I upvoted you, but there's something I'm not clear about - are you saying that the Model M causes _more_ repetitive stress-related pain than other keyboards? Because I beg to differ.

Switching from a Microsoft intellisomething keyboard to a Model M (and a Logitech web keyboard before it) _reduced_ my wrist pain (and I'm already on Dvorak). At work, I'm now using a Microsoft keyboard once more, and have noticed a marked increase in wrist pain.

I think the shallow travel on the other keyboards means when you smash the keys, you don't get as much resistance meaning you hit the base of the keyboard with more force, causing more pain.

Think of it like the old cars. People think they're incredible because they don't dent and are made of solid steel. In reality, you _need_ the car to dent (all the way until it reaches the driver safety zone) in order to reduce the force of impact. The crumbling of the bumper consumes force that would have gone into the driver.

Same with the Model M. The buckling of the keys consumes that pressure rather than throwing back into your joints and your wrists. It's healthier that way.

<comment><USER4> "I upvoted you, but there's something I'm not clear about - are you saying that the Model M causes more repetitive stress-related pain than other keyboards? Because I beg to differ. Switching from a Microsoft intellisomething keyboard to a Model M (and a Logitech web keyboard before it) reduced my wrist pain (and I'm already on Dvorak). At work, I'm now using a Microsoft keyboard once more, and have noticed a marked increase in wrist pain."

I don't disbelieve you -- and, in fact, would report the same. Model Ms are awesome.

However.

What makes a good keyboard is very much a personal thing. It depends on many factors. How tall you are; what position you sit in; what kind of chair you use; how high your chair is adjusted; what your posture is like within that chair; how high your desk is; how high your desk is relative to your chair; how the monitor is oriented; how long your arms are; the ambient temperature; how large your hands are; how strong your fingers are; what position you hold your fingers in over the keyboard (I maintain that holding your fingers over the home row as a default position is insane); how often you take breaks; what kind of exercises you do during those breaks, if any; what kind of exercises you do before sitting down to type, and when you're done for the day; and how many hours a day you type are the first few factors that spring to mind. I didn't have to try hard to come up with this list.

So the Model M works for you, and it works for me too. Lucky for us, because they truly are sweet keyboards (...till you try to hook one up to a mac). But that doesn't mean they'll work just as well for everyone else.

(The same goes for pointing devices, too.)

<comment><USER3> Check out the unicomp remakes. They work on Mac.

<http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Do you practice for technical interview screens? - <AUTHOR>

If you know that you will be asked to do coding exercises on a phone interview, do you practice ahead of time? <comment><USER2> I'm not entirely sure how coding over the phone would work, but personally, for technical screens in particular, I prefer not to practice at all.

For me, it's the same as a test. If I cannot perform adequately from the knowledge I already have, then I'm positive that the company would not want me working for them, and I probably wouldn't be productive, or as productive as they'd like.

For me this has been a benefit. For questions regarding specific topics, like design patterns, polymorphism, encapsulation, SOLID, stuff like that, the answers that I give are 100% practical, based on how I view that topic as it has applied to work, and are described completely in my own words.

It means I'm not only not going to give you a dictionary definition, but I'm going to explain it how I understand it, and give you an example at the same time. It's going to show that I understand the concept, instead of just knowing it (since those are two distinct things: knowing and understanding).

Now, on-to the more broad aspect of your question. I practice coding, or involve myself in software development, probably 80% of my time outside of work. I stay active on sites like HackerRank, TopCoder, ProjectEuler, etc, and continually try to solve problems to improve myself. I'm not doing this to make myself better for a tech screen, but better overall, because it's going to help me on the job just as much if not more than it will help get me a job.

Anyway, like I mentioned, this has only _rarely_ , and I do mean rarely, not worked for me. I think all but 2 places I've interviewed with have resulted in offers, and that includes all of the big names, except Amazon (and there, I just don't think I was a good fit).

<comment><AUTHOR> thanks for answering my question. I was recently on a job interview and was asked to solve a problem while coding it up in browser (that's what I meant by phone interview) with the interviewer listening on the phone. I found it hard to do, not because the problem was difficult, but more so, that the experience of coding while someone else is watching and listening to me was new.

<comment><USER2> I see, even at this point, I think I probably would have either aborted the interview right then (if that's the environment they put their candidates in, doesn't bode well for actual employees), or been upfront saying something like "okay, well I'm not really going to talk while I write the solution out."

That's not really the ideal situation for interviewer or interviewee, and it's awkward for both parties, so I doubt you'll come across it again. I've been on about 25-30 interviews over the course of the last 5-6 years, and I've never once been asked to code over the phone, and I don't think I'd ever ask a candidate to solve something over the phone/skype.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> I absolutely practice before a technical interview.

I do at least one or two quick problems from Hacker Rank or Project Euler, and briefly review a handful of key algorithms (trees, graphs, searches).

I wouldn't want to lose a good opportunity because I was rusty on something the interviewer happened to ask.</comment>


Ask HN: How to work fewer hours? - <AUTHOR> Hi HN,
I work as an engineer at a good software company and make around $165k/year. It's more money than I need and I find that full time work takes too much time.
I'd rather have a setup where I work three days per week and make $99k, or work only 8 months a year (2 on, 1 off) and make $110k, so I'd have more time for myself, my friends, and my hobbies.
I don't think I'd be substantially less productive than working full time, so the company would be getting a good deal as well by paying me less, although I know my current company (which is very large) would not go for such a setup.
How would I go about doing something this? Should I look into freelancing? <comment><USER2> You could seek out a company that would accommodate such a setup, although that might be tricky to find. If you were a big name in your field, it'd give some weight to your application, but if not, why would the company hire you over someone else willing to work the regular work week?

The main reason why a company would not want such a setup, regardless of your productivity, is because other employees would still be working on the weekday(s) you have off. What happens if a coworker really needs you to merge their code in but you're off that day? etc.

You probably already know this, but the simplest way to get where you want to be is your own boss, whether the means freelance/contracting or building a company whose goal is not to scale and become the next Facebook, but rather to give you a comfortable life.

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm not a huge name in my field, although I get the regular barrage of recruiters. I suppose I could start asking them if they'd be amenable to such a situation.

I've been on teams where a person worked on another project (albeit one for the same company) once or twice a week, and it wasn't so bad; we'd just know not to expect them to be available on some days. That's why I think it could work at a regular company.

Perhaps I'll investigate freelancing/contracting more seriously, although I've heard that can result in more hours worked rather than fewer hours.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Consulting companies often have the concept of a sabatical at reduced pay. Although they work, supercommute like crazy during their own hours. Out of curiosity, what location are you based in?

<comment><AUTHOR> Boston area.</comment></comment>


The Next Ferry You Board Might Run on Batteries - <AUTHOR> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-03-13/the-next-ship-you-board-might-run-on-batteries <comment><USER2> Hired an electric boat suited for 8 people and took it up our river (more the upper reaches of an estuary) they other day, it was great.

Quiet, no fumes, enough power as we were limited to 5 knots in the area anyway.

Not advertising, but so you can see the type of boat - www.goboatperth.com.au.</comment>


The CSS Holy War and How to Think Beyond Dogma - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/gitconnected/the-css-holy-war-how-to-think-beyond-dogma-e2c67692d409 <comment><USER2> Now that JavaScript has seen some radical changes, we're about to see CSS do the same. CSS-in-JS is a start, but I think the ultimate outcome to modernize styles for component-based application architecture will change dramatically in the near future.

<comment><AUTHOR> Agreed! It is an exciting time for CSS right now. In my next two articles I plan on: (1) covering the origins of CSS-in-JS and CSS Modules, and then (2) developing a strategy for choosing the right CSS methodology or framework for your project.</comment></comment>


Breaking the Law of Information Non-growth - <AUTHOR> https://www.am-nat.org/site/law-of-information-non-growth/ <comment><AUTHOR> For a short, no math explanation: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18381723](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18381723)</comment>


I say, damn it, where are the beds? New books on Orwell - <AUTHOR> https://www.lrb.co.uk/v39/n04/david-trotter/i-say-damn-it-where-are-the-beds <comment><USER2> This article seems like a lazy rewrite of an article about Orwell: Writing and Democratic Socialism by Alex Woloch in the latest London Review of Books. See the section after the *.

[https://www.lrb.co.uk/v39/n04/david-trotter/i-say-damn-it- wh...](https://www.lrb.co.uk/v39/n04/david-trotter/i-say-damn-it-where-are- the-beds)

It's a better read anyway.

<comment><USER3> Can I respectfully disagree with Dang's changing the featured link?

As someone who is not informed on Orwell, the previously featured article actually helps me understand what it is trying to say. It also gives me crucial basic information (e.g. Blair = Orwell) which is missing from the London Review of Books article.

Reading both would be best of course, but I know which link I'm sending to friends first.

<comment><USER2> I agree with you as well. I never intended for this link to be the original link. It was just intended for the audience of HN that is already a fan and familiar with Orwell's work.

I couldn't reply to dang comment unfortunately to say that.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> His essays _Shooting An Elephant_ and _Politics and the English Language_ have always stuck with me. We have the 4 volume collection in the family. It's at an arm's distance right now.

I read _Animal Farm_ when I was 12 and _1984_ a few years later. And I've re- read them a few times since. In college, I read _Down and Out_. Traveling through Europe I read _Homage to Catalonia_.

Orwell is my favorite writer and _1984_ is my favorite book.

<comment><USER5> "Politics and the English Language" is unquestionably one of Orwell's most important essays. Kind of amazing that this post overlooks it.

<comment><USER6> I loved it so much that I once tried to do a 'modern update' of it, with headers and bullet points and so on. It's meant to be a supplement to the original essay, not a replacement: [http://visakanv.com/blog/politics-and-the- english-language](http://visakanv.com/blog/politics-and-the-english-language)

<comment><USER5> I would be willing to bet money that Orwell would have hated bullet points. Also, PowerPoint.

<comment><USER6> I didn't remove anything that he said; I just presented his multiple lists of examples in a easier-to-read format. The original essay probably was formatted a particular way on the printed page, but it's turned into a tedious wall of text in the orwell.ru version.

I have a link to the predecessor in opening; so you can open both copies in separate tabs and compare them for yourself.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Say what you want about Orwell (Well, Blair, if you like), but he was a shrewd observer of human nature.

1984 and Animal Farm are probably his best known works, but his 'Down and out in Paris and London' describes being poor and how it affects both your body and mind like no other account I've ever read (and I read quite a lot!)

I love his writing - and, before anyone suggest I have a rosy view of him because of his politics, I am a (mild) libertarian of the Viennese mold...

</comment><comment><USER8> The Road to Wigan Pier should be in this. Orwell lived with coal miners' families in Northern Britain for months. I particularly was struck by his descriptions of the way social-welfare policies were used to weaken family structures of the poor.

<comment><USER9> > social-welfare policies were used to weaken family structures of the poor

How on _earth_ do you get that message out of Orwell?

He argued in places that the various relief organisations were often patronising and under-informed, but the "weaken family structures" is a distinctly modern code phrase.

<comment><USER10> What's a "code phrase"?

<comment><USER11> see: shibboleth

<comment><USER10> I guess I was wanting the person that wrote it to explain what they meant, rather than using weasel words.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Homage to Catalonia deserves a mention here.

[https://libcom.org/files/Homage%20to%20Catalonia%20-%20Georg...](https://libcom.org/files/Homage%20to%20Catalonia%20-%20George%20Orwell.pdf)

<comment><USER13> That was the book he talked about having sacrificed his art to write.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Among everything else, Orwell is a master of English. This can be hard to see because his mastery never calls attention to itself. His focus is always the point.

<comment><USER4> Strangely to me, _Politics and the English Language_ was never assigned in any of the classes I took at Berkeley. _1984_ was by popular acclamation The Book. But it seemed that PATEL was ranked too high for undergrads. It should've been required English 1A reading.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Would it have killed the author of this post to name the essays he's quoting?

"... good prose is like a windowpane." \- _Why I write_ , 1946

"Political language — and with variations this is true of all political parties, from Conservatives to Anarchists — is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind." \- _Politics and the English Language_ , 1946

Etc

</comment><comment><USER15> I am so glad it is on front page. I LOVE his essays. Such a good read. And I totally agree that they'll give you more than Animal Farm and 1984.

</comment><comment><USER16> Orwell's book reviews are a treasure.

<comment><USER15> Benefit of Clergy is a marvelous gem!

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> Things like [http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2003/01/27/honest- decent-w...](http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2003/01/27/honest-decent-wrong) are worth reading too.

<comment><USER14> This is such a strangely sparse comment. Can you say something about why you recommend this article?

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Orwell is great. This article is questionable.

> To the surprise of absolutely no one, George Orwell is everywhere these > days. His seven-decade-old dystopian classic, 1984, recently made waves by > topping a bunch of bestseller lists. Orwell's earlier (and arguably greater) > allegory, Animal Farm, is also getting its due. That both novels are > suddenly on the radar of people who probably haven't given Orwell a second > thought in years is hardly surprising at a time when war refugees are > painted as national security threats, white nationalists hold positions of > power in the White House and an American president is openly involved in an > abusive relationship with the English language.

It isn't surprising. What is surprising is to see anyone lay this at the feet of Trump.

So here is what actually happened: In the wake of 9/11, Bush started legitimizing a strong surveillance state (that to some degree has been with us since WW II). With few exceptions, primarily from 'crazy libertarians' and some liberals, both liberals and conservatives went along with it. Of course, this didn't stop liberals from using it as justification to try to get Republicans out of office later on.

Obama was elected. Since Obama was "their guy", liberals grew mostly silent on the subject (although with _a lot_ more exceptions than before) and conservatives suddenly changed their tune, at least in public: surveillance is bad (but Snowden is still a traitor).

Those liberals who were cool with whatever Obama was doing believed in the myth of "the right people". Meaning, governance isn't a question of political power, sound policies, principled problem solving or anything along those lines. It's just a question of having "the right people" in charge. So whatever powers "the right people" say they need to do their job, since they are "the right people" it must be true and we should give them those powers to Get Things Done. (Note: there are conservative factions that believe this as well.)

Now, those very same liberals are in a panic because (surprise, surprise) Trump ( _i.e.,_ the wrong person) is in charge and has all those powers that were previously given to "the right people". Of course, the problem _isn 't_ the granting of those powers. It's just that the wrong person was voted in by an ignorant public.

So now, in a panic, largely induced by a media which finds itself incapable of straight truth or depth, they flock to buy 1984 so they can 'legitimately' talk and write about this book they've never previously read in order to make tenuous comparisons to Trump's brand new presidency. And they, like conservatives during the Obama years, will cry out against the very same surveillance state that was no problem at all when their guy was in charge.

<comment><USER13> Edit: ok, you don't like that Orwell article?—we got others. See [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13672556](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13672556).

> _Orwell is great. This article is questionable._

Probably true, but it's an excuse to talk about Orwell and most commenters here are doing a great job of that. How about we keep it up and not take the bait? That would be breaking new ground on the internet.

<comment><USER19> Personally, I think the parent comment has done the best job of talking about Orwell and how he applies to our present situation of any in the thread.

I don't see anything particularly ground breaking about us all heaping praise on Orwell, it seems like we all love his writing.

<comment><USER13> What would be ground-breaking is bait resistance. A community that could respond to the substantive parts of a story and resist getting sucked in by the baity parts would be a new thing (where by 'new' I just mean I don't know of one).

<comment><USER20> The problem is the story's substance starts with poisoning the well by making the accusation that the state of fear described in 1984 and Orwell's other writing is due to Trump and the 'white nationalists' he has in his cabinet. Then, it gives sparse details about the specific connections between Orwell's writings and Trump, but because of the initial poison the reader is supposed to infer meaning that simply doesn't exist. That's why I called it a propaganda piece, because that's all it is. Orwell is fantastic, but Orwell in my estimation would be rolling in his grave upon hearing that the biggest hypocrites about 'government transparency' and 'fair free speech' in the world are using him to attack their political opponents.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> The irony of this piece is overwhelming.

<comment><USER22> Political correctness isn't language control... attacking it is!!</comment></comment>


My HN November app: Quick Brown Frog - <AUTHOR>

I'm getting close to launching my November project:
Quick Brown Frog (http://www.quickbrownfrog.com) is an online typing tutor that runs right in your browser- nothing to download or install, no Flash or other plugins required. Feel free to create yourself an account using this link:

   http://www.quickbrownfrog.com/#!createAccount:HN
 I'm still working on the lesson content, but most of the moving parts are in place. It's built using GWT and Google App Engine. Despite the recent spate of GAE-related postings here, I've been able to make App Engine work fairly well for my needs and team size (i.e. me). Right now my only remaining pain point is the lack of SSL for non-appspot.com domains. Ugh.
Quick Brown Frog was very much influenced by patio11- consumer-oriented, and born of personal experience. A year ago, I decided to learn to type properly, and tried to download software from the major vendor of typing software.  It turned out to be a weird PC/Mac hybrid package, and I had to go hunting for a dated uncompression tool just to open the .sit file.
When I finally got it uncompressed, I found it was years out of date and would not run on my Mac. I ended up having to order a CDROM version from them in order to get the latest software that would run on my system. (Why offer the dated download at all?!)
Thus was my inspiration to create a totally browser-based typing tutor. I'm blogging about the development process at http://quickbrownfrog.wordpress.com.
Feedback greatly appreciated. <comment><AUTHOR> Clickable links:

<http://www.quickbrownfrog.com>

<http://www.quickbrownfrog.com/#!createAccount:HN>

<http://quickbrownfrog.wordpress.com>

</comment><comment><USER2> One nit with the typing test (which is the only thing I tried):

Lots of us were taught (correctly) to follow a period with two spaces. When you do that on your test, every single character from there on out is highlighted in red. It thinks you're wrong on every word, and there's nothing you can do about it short of backspacing to the period in question and erasing one of your spaces.

It pretty much makes the test useless. And since that's the only thing you let me see, the only inference I can draw is that the rest of your product is of similar quality. In short, you lost me.

Multiply that times everybody else who visits your site and types that way, and think about the impact it will have on your sales.

<comment><USER3> "Most modern literature on typography says that double spacing is wrong" - <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_spacing> (with citations).

<comment><USER2> Indeed, but the article you reference is about typesetting, not typing.

Schools were still teaching the double-space typing method well into the 90's (and probably beyond), so if you're building a product for people who type and are potentially older than 30, it's probably a good idea to account for the fact that they're likely to type two spaces after a period.

<comment><USER4> FWIW, I am 22 and I was also taught this way.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> That's really neat. You might explain why people would want to pay $29.95 because it is not exactly clear why we would need to pay. The practice feature is mind blowing, and works really well. Congrats.

<comment><AUTHOR> I want to offer some amount of content for users to test-drive prior to purchase, but I imagine locking down more of it once the site launches (maybe 2 free practices before offering a "buy now" link, or some such.)

Currently all of the _lesson_ content is locked down (if you've created an account using the HN signup code, then you get to see it all, such as it is).

I've gotten lots of feedback to the effect that $29 is too high for a webapp, so I certainly will revise that down before launching.

Thanks for the feedback!

<comment><USER5> I don't think that $29 is too expensive for a webapp. I'm a _bit worried_ about paying any amount for a product I don't own and which could disappear overnight. When buying traditional software that we install, even if the company goes out of business, we still have the software we paid for. It's obviously not the case for a webapp and given how _new_ your product is, this might refrain potential customers.

As for free vs paying feature, I'd only give the time taken to complete the exercise and the wpm, and suggest upgrading to the paying version to have more stats.

<comment><AUTHOR> Gotcha. The site aesthetics probably don't shout "I'm an established product and will be here long after you've paid for it" either.

By "more stats", do you mean the accuracy statistic that is computed for each practice? Or do you mean the wpm/accuracy chart that you see on the Progress link?

<comment><USER5> Don't give them all for free. Keep accuracy and most frequent keys errors for paying customers, and incite them to upgrade if they want to know how well they scored.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Very nice product. I usually do typing practices in typeracer but the fragments on your sites are a lot longer, I like that a lot.

I'm sure you won't get this request very often (until you go international...), but I'm using these practices mostly for practicing my dvorak skills ;-). Would it be possible to have a setting for a keyboard layouts?

As I write this I realize that different layouts would mean a different lesson structure as well...

\--

Okay, here some more feedback after trying some practises in my native tongue (dutch).

\- Response seems quite slow. If I type above 50wpm the text can't keep up with me (which is _very_ annoying and makes it quite hard to use).

\- If you miss a letter (or space), everything else is considered 'wrong'. It might be nice if you would recognize (after two or three 'wrong' letters) that it actually misses a letter or space, and add a visual confirmation of that.

\- If you give a custom url and press <enter> that doesn't work, you'll have to click the 'go' button.

\- Using a random wiki article usually just sucks, most of the random articles are articles with a lot of 'sidebar' information that you'll have to type. First hit today was this one, try it ;-) <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buochs>

<comment><AUTHOR> Huppie, tried to contact you but I can't find your email.

Can you tell me what OS/Browser you were using? One of the major goals of the app is for it to be blazing fast, and not have any lag issues. I mainly use OSX+Safari, but I test on Firefox, Chrome and IE8, and it works quite well for me in testing.

I also agree with what you have to say about the random wikipedia links; I tried really hard to filter out as much boilerplate stuff as I can, but sadly Wikipedia isn't as structured as you might expect it to be.

Thanks very much for the feedback.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> I like it, seems like it works pretty well and it is cool how you use Wikipedia for the testing as that will allow users to practice with "real" work. The price seems high, but I don't know that market.

Also, I think I would really build up the speed test you have and use that as a marketing tool with something like high scores posted to Facebook.

<comment><AUTHOR> The price was just a shot in the dark really. It's in line with similar shink- wrap products, but once I get off the ground I plan to do some A/B testing on price.

Thanks for the feedback!

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> I ran into a glitch with chrome on OSX, hitting the enter key during the typing test refreshes the page.

Having a keyboard shortcut to go the next lesson seems essential, it is annoying to have to keep reaching for the mouse in a typing tutor.

I would like to see more 'nerdy' topics in the practice sections, stuff about programming, video games, passages from monty python skits, etc.

Other than that, I am really happy with it. I would gladly pay 10 bucks for something like this.

<comment><AUTHOR> I haven't been able to reproduce this on Chrome/OSX. What version of Chrome are you using?

I will add some keyboard navigation as you suggested.

Thanks very much for the feedback.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Stream of conscious feedback:

The keyboard should not be required to move between exercises - the space bar would provide a better alternative.

Could you color coordinate the key color with a predefined finger color?

You should market this to schools with classroom subscriptions. This would provide a great, cross-platform alternative to Mavis Beacon which costs $20 per computer to install/update and cannot be used at home.

<comment><AUTHOR> "The keyboard should not be required to move between exercises" ... did you mean "mouse"? Otherwise I am not following you.

In the very near future I am planning to add some kind of hands/fingers graphic, with the appropriate digit indicated in some way. That might cover your other suggestion about a predefined color.

Thanks for the feedback!

<comment><USER9> That is exactly what I meant.

For some reason today appears to be my off-day on HN, as I've made two sentence changing mistakes.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Cool stuff. Two semi-suggestions.

1) The paragraph symbol threw me off for a second. It may be a good idea to have a small explanation at the top for how line breaks are handled.

2) I seem to manage better at typing tests when the paragraph of text to be typed is on one area and the input box is in another. Not sure if this fits the model, but it could be a configurable option.

</comment><comment><USER11> This is cool.

One gripe: am I the only one who still uses two spaces in between sentences?

</comment><comment><USER12> I just tried it out. I like the feedback about which keys gave me trouble. However, i sometimes got tripped up because I automatically added two spaces after a period and your test only expected one space.

<comment><AUTHOR> Lots of people were giving me the same feedback, so I just now implemented code that will ignore the char if the user types a second space after a period. Thanks!

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> <http://imgur.com/v4vwY>

Is the Facebook button meant to be displayed there?

<comment><AUTHOR> No, it's a glitch and I can't seem to figure it out, as it only happens from time to time. Supposed to show up 5 pixels from the bottom of the screen.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Oh my god, this is fantastic.

</comment><comment><USER15> Just ignore the second space that someone types after a period. =)

<comment><AUTHOR> Just implemented this, thanks!</comment></comment>


Stop Lying……They are too smart now [video] - <AUTHOR> http://garyvaynerchuk.com/post/5192919965/stop-lying-they-are-too-smart <comment><AUTHOR> I know Gary is preaching to the choir here but I love his energy and his message I wish more companies were honest. I think that is changing a bit but it hasn't completely caught on.</comment>


Chart shows low tax burden for rich - <AUTHOR> http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110316/ts_yblog_thelookout/chart-shows-low-tax-burden-for-rich <comment><USER2> Terrible chart. There is no scale or legend to map color to "tax burden." Tax burden is not specifically defined anywhere (Overall tax rates? Absolute taxes paid? Taxes paid as fraction of total wealth?), so the chart is basically meaningless besides as a sensationalist tool to advance the author's political stance.

Another problem is that naturally one would perceive time as the independent axis (usually horizontal/X) while the various tax burdens are a function of that time.

I don't mean to diminish the author's point or disagree with his belief, but this chart does little service for the author.

</comment><comment><USER3> It seems to show a rather low tax burden for everyone by historical standards. I wonder if part of the issue is that income taxes have fallen but various state and local taxes, and fees for government services, have gone up instead. I think people might be willing to tolerate a somewhat higher 'headline' rate if taxation were simpler and didn't involve so many different transactions and associated administration.

an oldie but goodie - the growth (in pages) of the US tax code: [http://politicalcalculations.blogspot.com/2005/12/measuring-...](http://politicalcalculations.blogspot.com/2005/12/measuring- growth-of-us-tax-code.html)

<comment><USER4> What I see is a slightly high burden by historical standards for most everyone from part-time-minimum-wagers (~$10k/year) to mid-level professionals (~$100k/year) and a slightly-to-significantly low burden for everyone else.

<comment><USER3> Apart from the 1980s and the pre-war era (the intensely blue bits), that $10k$100k area still seems sort of light-colored compared to the rest of the graph. Of course now we're arguing about exactly what shade of pink translates to 'slightly' :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I'd contrast that with this chart:[http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/downchart_gr.php?chart=10...](http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/downchart_gr.php?chart=10-total_30-total_40-total_50-total_60-total&year=1902_2015&units=p)

If you look at Federal Tax Revenue from income taxes you see the pct of GDP stayed remarkably consistent even in times where taxes were much higher. To me that says people will find ways to hide their revenue when taxes are high enough to tip the risk/reward equation in that direction.

</comment><comment><USER6> One of the more interesting tidbits I've stumbled across:

[http://books.google.com/books?id=vw7ZAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA21...](http://books.google.com/books?id=vw7ZAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA21&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U1tmkvZIRyYubg4d-zgkblfFvXf8g&ci=123%2C285%2C793%2C726&edge=0)

Source: _United States Income Tax Law Simplified for Businessmen_ | Ferdinand Adolphus Wyman | 1895

In other words, the Income Tax -- as it was originally intended -- was for the wealthy only. The book was published in 1895, and the income threshold in the 1890's was $4000.

$4000 in 1895 dollars would be a rather large amount of money today. So what happened?

</comment><comment><USER7> I don't really understand how to read this chart, even after reading the explanation. Can someone explain how it works? How is "burden" (color) calculated?</comment>


Phone video clears man charged with assaulting cop, even after phone disappears - <AUTHOR> http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2015/09/23/phone-video-clears-man-charged-with-assaulting-cop-even-after-phone-disappears.html?referrer= <comment><USER2> Both official perjury and intentional destruction of recording equipment are vicious, anti-democratic acts. It's puzzling to me that these are not regarded as serious felonies, disqualifying offenders from public office for life and subjecting them to substantial criminal penalties.

<comment><USER3> I'm not going to excuse police for their actions, but I do know as a society we should value them much more. I say ramp up their salaries significantly but increase oversight (body cameras, more automation, etc).

<comment><USER4> A lot of cops make a ton of money, doubly so outside of big cities. In a New Jersey coastal town where my parents live the cops start at $85k/yr. They never see any action. A few years back two of them saw a dead body and took months of paid leave because they were traumatized.

Ultimately we just need to give them all body cameras and dismiss anything they say or do that isn't recorded.

<comment><USER5> Then why have a specialised privileged set of people held to a higher standard. Why not just slap body cameras on everyone and say "if you see a robbery, go round and ask some questions, we'll review the tapes later"

Police (and others) are given special privileges but expected to act to a higher standard than the rest of us. Quite a lot of them do. It's like accountants and lawyers and doctors. Taking a random sample of doctors and a random sample of, say, HN readers, the doctors would be ... Better.

<comment><USER2> > Then why have a specialised privileged set of people held to a higher > standard.

I know you are being facetious here, but in the internet age, I think this is an increasingly compelling question.

<comment><USER6> What you're suggesting could be the start of anarchy, which is the absence of rulers but not necessarily of rules. If it were possible for anyone to gather evidence of a violation of a rule, then why have a specialist class? In the same vein, if it were possible to gain consent for a rule without a specialist class, then why have a government? The only problem with the elimination of the specialists is that we then must take over their responsibility to act justly. I often wonder if our society is capable of that yet.

<comment><USER5> Rules but no rulers. I like the sound of it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> So that brings us to a question what app would you use to

a) Secretly record a video on your phone. b) Stream the video to a cloud (youtube, dropbox, other) while you record, so that even if the phone is snatched from your hand and crashed by a heavy police boot, as much of the video as the network allows will be already uploaded.

<comment><USER8> If you just record a video with the default video/camera app on your phone, Google photos (assuming you have the app and have it set to auto backup at default quality) will back it up on the cloud.

<comment><USER9> I don't think that's what dandare meant. They were asking for an app that uploads the video _as it's being recorded_.

If you have to stop recording before having the video backed up, all a bad actor needs to do is physically destroy your device, and you'll lose your evidence.

As it happens, such apps seem to already exist. Another comment in this thread: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10284629](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10284629)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I've always wondered if at some law enforcement agencies, there are unofficial guides on how to make sure a memory card has been wiped. Back in the day of film cameras, taking the film or damaging the camera to ruin the film might have been enough. With digital cameras, even forcing the photographer to do a memory card format was not sure-proof, if the photographer knew how to run disk-recovery software. I remember at least one story where a police officer either confiscated a photojournalist's memory card or made the photographer erase it...but the photojournalist had a dual-card camera in which all the photos were auto-copied to.

With all those subtleties and complexities about digital camera technology (SLR or smartphone cameras), it probably does make sense to a malicious cop to just take and "lose" the camera. But technology continues to be a step ahead...

<comment><USER11> I've often thought of making a mobile app that securely uploads a video in real time to a secure server, out of the reach of law enforcement. That way, physical possession of the phone is irrelevant if law enforcement gets its hands on it. Alas, almost every online search brings up info for live streaming to an iOS device, not streaming from one (and I think it'd be quite a challenge).

TLDR basically Periscope, but in a way that the uploaded video is encrypted and the cops can't access it.

<comment><USER12> Luckily this already exists, check out the Police Tape app on iOS and Android from the ACLU.

<comment><USER2> Last I checked, Police Tape did not actually upload video in real time, but stored it and waited until after the video to ask the user to upload it. Is this still the case?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Police slapping phones/cameras out of someone's hands need to get control of their emotions and bear the "I will catch you slipping up" threat with confident professionalism.

That said, the criminal-record stereo-blaster was probably lying about 'his uncle' and I don't think you get to 'you have no warrant we're done here' and shut the door on the police responding to a neighbor noise complaint. If they want to give you a talking-to or a ticket (depending on local law), they can.

I do believe the guy about his phone being "lost", though (should be easy to corroborate if they have signatures/records of personal items), and we can expect real sanction for the phone-slapper if it's clear which cop did it.

</comment><comment><USER14> > Toronto police confirmed the officers are now being investigated by the > force's Professional Standards division.

Of course, the "oversight" comes from within. How can we even begin to believe that they will act without bias?

</comment><comment><USER15> We'll have to admit that some cops are just bullies who entered the system to have a legal way of being who they want to be. They need to tighten the psychological profile/test required to be and remain an officer of the law.

<comment><USER16> I've got no experience with psych tests but I can easily imagine most power abusers would easily pass one, and if not, they soon will because it's now a test and tests become gameable if they matter with takers knowing exactly what the desired answer is.

I think the solution rather lies in two other places.

One is obviously transparency. This man was acquitted due to video, so let's put video on every police officer. Toronto for example is playing with this, and it makes financial sense. They have about 5.000 police officers on a police department budget of $1.7 billion. We all know how cheap cameras (just look at the cameras on $50 smartphones) and storage have become in recent years, with a per officer budget of about $350k, spending a few thousand a year (much more than you'd need for a solid camera & storage system) on cameras would constitute a 1% cost increase, and you can probably offset that cost immediately due to cost savings in faster trials due to less ambiguous evidence, fewer complaints, less use of force etc (for example we've seen in recent months reports of 70% fewer citizen complaints, 30% drop in use of force incidents in Birmingham). Chicago for example spent $500m over 10 years on police abuse cases (obviously paid for by citizens, not the police officers in question themselves)

Second is to stop the bs 'internal investigation'. Police officers aren't diplomats, they're citizens on duty as civil servants, when they're suspected of harming the civilians they're supposed to serve, why have them be investigated by their colleagues and close peers? I mean it's ridiculous. This is so terrible because we see the old 80/20 rule in police departments, too, I don't know the exact statistics from the top of my head but the notion that 80% of the complaints and incidents are caused by 20% of the police officers isn't far from the actual number. A ton of honest and awesome cops go their entire career without any abuse of power, you can't prevent the others from getting in, but you can make sure they get out once you catch them. Donald Sadowy for example has been accused of excessive force 10 times in 2 years in actual lawsuits, imagine how many times he must've used excessive force if he was taken to court 10 times, yet he's still on the force. If you actually run the same 3 strikes and you're permanently fired policy on abuse that you do on citizens smoking some harmless pot who go to jail for years, and have officers investigated by an independent court with bodycam evidence, you'd probably already cut out a lot of abuse from guys like these, let alone if you fire people after one incident and even send people to jail for abuse of power. Beyond that, getting fired should mean losing the ability to be a police officer, period, nationwide. A lawyer for example can lose his license nationwide in most countries, but police officers too often leave one department and simply join another.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> Ah, yes. Toronto police. The guys who gave us Officer Bubbles. And financed his defamation action against YouTube out the public purse. [0]

I'm sure the Professional Standards division will be all over an assault by officers on a member of the public.

[0][http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2010/10/16/officer_bubbles_s...](http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2010/10/16/officer_bubbles_sues_youtube_and_users_over_cartoons.html) plus many others.

</comment><comment><USER18> Is there a GoPro that auto-uploads to Youtube? Would be really handy for dashcams or bodycams or whatevercams.

<comment><USER2> I really want a handheld, in the form factor of a Canon SX50 or thereabouts, that can upload via wifi or GSM.

Who is making this?

edit: to clarify, I mean upload in real-time, like a live broadcast.

<comment><USER18> What's your use-case?

<comment><USER2> Something like a local news team via a mesh network.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> There should be a public intelligence organization, a kind of wiki that crowd sources public records and profiles on police officers, their departments, and shootings so officers can't simply move around the country and they have a record of their own, which departments then can not claim having no knowledgeof.

<comment><USER20> I think copwatch.com is/was trying for something like this.

<comment><USER21> They aren't doing a very good job. Their site is broken.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> It'll be nice when it becomes cheap and easy to live stream video from a cellphone to multiple viewers and secure storage.

<comment><USER23> It's pretty close. You can setup a system yourself if you want.</comment></comment>


Twitter using Google Web Server? - <AUTHOR> http://builtwith.com/twitter.com

<comment><USER2> Don't know how they came to this conclusion, if you look at the headers of [https://twitter.com](https://twitter.com) its listed as "tfe".

      $ curl -v https://twitter.com
      [..ssl handshake and request..]
      < HTTP/1.1 200 OK
      < content-type: text/html;charset=utf-8
      < date: Fri, 01 Nov 2013 11:12:31 GMT
      * Server tfe is not blacklisted
      < server: tfe
      [..body..]

Also interesting to note that they are identifying sites such as "github.com", "dell.com" and "starbucks.com" as all using GWS[1].

[1] [http://trends.builtwith.com/websitelist/Google-Web- Server](http://trends.builtwith.com/websitelist/Google-Web-Server)

<comment><USER3> But if you actually click on the dell.com profile, it doesn't. It seems they have some data issues.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> We've excluded most websites which contain user generated content because of the false positives they give off like this. We've added twitter.com to that list.</comment>


How Covid-19 is infecting our minds, not our lungs - Pick-A-Hill2019 https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/culture-mind-and-brain/202002/the-coronavirus-is-much-worse-you-think <comment><AUTHOR> Well, while some of the quarantine measures might seem excessive (and at thje same time ineffective, it seems), cancelling completely unnecessary sporting events or trade fairs certainly is a good idea if it can even slightly slow down the growth of new cases.

The point people often miss is that officials (at least in Germany) are not concerned with a major decimation of the population. But they are concerned that the high rate of contagion this virus seems to have combined with the high percentage of cases requiring hospitalization (even if its only 10% of the cases) would completely overwhelm the health care system. Mind you, there is at the same time a influenza epidemic (like every year) that is already taxing the resources.</comment>


All Your Kibana 5 Plugins will break at each and every update - <AUTHOR> http://siren.solutions/in-kibana-5-all-your-plugins-will-break-at-each-and-every-update/ <comment><USER2> I think Kibana team said that the plugin API is not yet stable and a lot can still change there from version to version. The move seems reasonable to make sure that the plugin you are going to install will work with particular version of kibana.</comment>


When Does Dark Humor Stop Being Funny? - <AUTHOR> http://nautil.us/blog/when-does-dark-humor-stop-being-funny <comment><USER2> This ties in with the other article that was posted here about over- sensitivity[0]. I follow stand-up comedy pretty closely, and so many comedians seem to be facing more and more verbal (and sometimes physical) push back from jokes that are "offensive", and I find this trend really disturbing.

It's an interesting phenomenon you don't see in other artistic performances. Comedy is the one realm where an audience will show up, uninformed by reviews or any research into who they're seeing perform (as opposed to say, watching a movie trailer, for example), and be so offended (and entitled) that they feel they must take public action against the performer directly.

A comedian's jokes may very well be unfunny to a group of people, but does that inherently give anyone the right to try to silence it from being said? And should a joke someone finds offensive cost a comedian opportunities in their career?

[0] [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11533219](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11533219)

<comment><USER3> I can totally picture Anthony Jeselnik's first album Shakespeare causing a huge backlash these days. That album was released a few years ago, but the state of "offense sensitivity" is so heightened now that it would not have gotten him very far today. It's one of the greatest comedy albums of the last 15 years, but considering he's a white cis male, the amount of fire he would get today would be unbearable.

Let's see how some examples go down:

"People say it's easy to make fun of retarded people, but it's not. You really have to explain it to them."

"My great grandmother threw herself in front of a bus. The police tried to say she had committed suicide but the family knew she was just trying to stop civil rights."

"I've spent the past two years looking for my ex-girlfriend's killer... but no one will do it."

[http://scomedy.com/quotes/Anthony- Jeselnik](http://scomedy.com/quotes/Anthony-Jeselnik)

The last special he made, he bombed so hard I just stopped following him. It's just hard to find things funny when absolutely no one else is smirking...

<comment><USER4> I'm not offended by it, and they are somewhat funny, but your examples just feel lazy to me. They're just very basic wordplay, and not particularly clever. I think there are a lot of comics who use offensive topics to spice up mediocre jokes, but adding an offensive element doesn't actually make the humor better. You might attract an audience because of the shock value, but I don't know that it's the sort of thing that's going to keep an audience long- term.

Nothing wrong with incorporating offensive subjects in comedy, but there needs to be more meat to it.

<comment><USER5> It's all about delivery. You can't read those jokes and get the same experience. I could read those lines on stage and no one would laugh at all. Anthony has great stage presence and his deadpan delivery really enhances his jokes.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I think all the comments asserting that somehow "dark humor" is no longer acceptable in this age of political correctness have it precisely wrong. I give Louis CK as example #1. Louis is arguably one of the darkest comedians that has ever existed. In fact, he's almost not even doing comedy anymore sometimes, he's pushing into really profoundly dark existential territory and then occasionally allowing the audience to come up for air. If you've followed along with his whole career, you've seen his jokes evolve to where he's "punching down" less and less, and now almost not at all. But his humor is no less dark for it, it's MORE dark for it. It drives the bus straight into the strange and absurd and uncomfortable parts of the human experience and parks it right there. I can't find the interview right now, but he talks a lot about how having to get rid of the easy "shock/offend" jokes has made him a much better comic.

If what you are looking for is jokes about mentally handicapped people and lesbians, you can always turn on the morning show of your choice in most major American cities. To me, that's not dark humor, it's dumb humor.

<comment><USER7> I absolutely agree, everyone who's only familiar with Louis CK's standup should watch his brilliant shows "Louie" and "Horace & Pete", especially the latter is totally ground-breaking in its approach to comedy, which no doubt was only possible because it was entirely self-financed and -distributed.

<comment><USER8> I wouldn't categorise H&P as a comedy. There are funny moments in it, but it is much more a drama or a character study than anything else.

Overall I really liked it (except for the ending). I was only vaguely aware of CK as a standup comedian from a few youtube videos I'd seen, so his depth of writing, character creation, and also his acting chops really impressed me.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> The author suggests that dark humor has an inoculative effect on tragedy. It can also be remedial. I was reminded of how Mel Brooks explained why he makes fun of Hitler.

        Of course it is impossible to take revenge for 6 million murdered Jews. But by
        using the medium of comedy, we can try to rob Hitler of his posthumous power
        and myths.

([http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/spiegel- intervie...](http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/spiegel-interview- with-mel-brooks-with-comedy-we-can-rob-hitler-of-his-posthumous- power-a-406268.html))

</comment><comment><USER10> That is actually a very interesting topic. Why and when is perverted humor appropriate.

Slavoj Zizek like to talk about dirty jokes as a sort of a way to forge an in- group, or a way to let the guards down.

He mentions it here for example:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri0qiAita4s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri0qiAita4s)

Jokes are a way to probe and see if the other party is sincere. One example he brings up is how there used to be racial jokes between ex-Yugoslavian countries. They would meet and tell jokes about themselves basically. However as soon as tensions started jokes stopped. So another way to think about, dirty jokes are a bit like a canary in a mine. If jokes are allowed, other party is laughs at jokes, everything is still ok, it means they don't harbor hidden hatred or resentment. As soon as jokes stop, beware. You could be back- stabbed.

Not advocating telling dirty jokes everywhere obviously, just present that particular take on that.

<comment><USER11> This is a nice video, I wasn't aware of Zizek's opinion on the topic. It could also be that jokes coming from hostile parties sound more like threats.

<comment><USER10> > It could also be that jokes coming from hostile parties sound more like > threats.

Exactly. He talks about the second type of jokes in the story about the doctor in the army. How humor and jokes was used for oppression.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Dark humor is like a child with terminal cancer. It never gets old.

</comment><comment><USER13> This reminds me of this blog post regarding "how to make a rape joke" — [http://jezebel.com/5925186/how-to-make-a-rape- joke](http://jezebel.com/5925186/how-to-make-a-rape-joke)

tldr: "do not make a rape victim the butt of the joke, QED"

I think that applies quite well to this topic; dark humor ceases to be funny when it becomes an actual attack against another person.

<comment><USER14> This is creating an arbitrary line where the writer is saying (gestures here) "THIS is okay', but (gestures there) "THIS is not okay". But since comedy is all about surprise, misdirection, and transgression, all that the writer is saying is some kinds of transgression are allowed and some are "too serious" to be allowed.

But what if someone told a joke that made fun of rape victims that also caught people by surprise and made people laugh? Trying to create some arbitrary lines about what kind of comedy is permissible and what kind is forbidden just makes the forbidden stuff into more of a sacred cow. And humor is all about slaughtering sacred cows.

<comment><USER15> Comedians dance a fine line. The best can waltz back and fourth across the line with practiced precision.

Rape is about power. Power conceded by the victims and forcefully taken by the attackers.

A rape joke could make fun of how, useless, sad, an worthless a person would have to be to force themself on others.

How the act itself is nothing but a pathetic act of desperation.

Use perspective, artful storytelling, crafty dialog/writing to take the power from the attackers. Face the fear behind their actions and reduce it to reality; that rape is a sad, terrible, pathetic thing to do to somebody.

Take away the power from fear and gove it back to the victims in the form of empathy and support.

The 'sacred cows' as you say aren't just topics with shock value. They're topics that people are afraid of. Whether because they're taboo, morrally wrong, or legitimately terrifying.

Some may say that the victims suffer more due to living dealing with the shame and lying to loved ones to keep their past a secret.

In the right hands a truly talented comedian could make a great rape joke that is actually empowering to rape victims. One that makes the topic less taboo and helps victims feel less shame in a past that they had no power to shape.

Tasteless humor is noyhing but an ad-hominem dressed up with a fancy delivery. Good comedians don't attack people, they shine light on the ridiculousness of life and in doing so bring people together.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> When you can't find the light switch

<comment><USER17> When no one's left alive to hear the joke.

<comment><USER18> Dark humor is like food: not everybody gets it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Laughing at our stupid selves is one of the best coping mechanisms for the absurdity of being marginally intelligent apes living short irrelevant lives in an uncaring universe.

</comment><comment><USER20> Never, people have different taste in humor.

</comment><comment><USER21> You can laugh at everything but not with everyone. (Pierre Desproges)

Before you make an offensive joke, check who's around you.

</comment><comment><USER22> Just because you personally find something offensive doesn't mean it isn't funny. Humor is subjective. It might just mean you have a shit sense of humor.

</comment><comment><USER23> tldr: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crjrWF- RRlg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crjrWF-RRlg) (from the article)

</comment><comment> awinter-py hmm -- surprising that the article doesn't talk about the role of surprise / novelty in humor. If there's a semantic metric for humor, it's that -- a surprising link between topics your brain normally separates.

in-group out-group also matters. second cousins shouldn't be cracking jokes at a funeral but immediate relatives are often under so much stress that they can laugh at almost anything.

</comment><comment><USER24> It _never_ stops being funny, but you might not want to be the last one in the crowd to cease laughing at it openly.

</comment><comment><USER15> It never stops being funny. Many famous comedians suffer from depression and/or mental health issues because that is one of the primary sources of their inspiration. Laughter, and specifically dark humor is an inoculation to misery. A perfectly healthy response to an unhealthy mental stare. When it feels like the world is crashing down, it's best to laugh at the ridiculousness of it all and move fowrard then be paralyzed by fear.

Laughter is also a common social signal, it signals safety and increases happiness for all who join in. Dark jokes specifically, increase our threshold to face terrible things and help distract from the anxiety of -- otherwise -- trivial matters in out day-to-day lives. It increases empathy and connectedness among people, even strangers who have little or nothing in common.

Just look how Austin Powers uses puns to lighten the situation. [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3wafhDIMU6w](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3wafhDIMU6w). It's cheesy and over-the-top to match the character but the effect is the same. We joke about the things that make us uncomfortable because it makes us feel better.

The only people up-in-arms about dark humor are individuals seeking to use their own false sense of moral superiority to subjugate others.

In a way, I'd be more scared of somebody who can't find it in themselves to laugh at all. To laugh at an awful joke requires self awareness and a clear understanding of the separation of truth from reality. People who lack those characteristics lie to themselves as much as others and live to project an 'ideal' image of themselves rather than face the humility of accepting their own weaknesses. Whet her the reason is big or small, they project a facade because they have something to hide. Is the person secretly a 'political activist' with an agenda or a murderous psychopath a hair-trigger response away from going off the deep end?

Of the dark comedians, Doug Stanhope is one of the darkest. Just watch the following skit [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hY3W9Z4bdS8](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hY3W9Z4bdS8). It's a clear middle finger to the 'Breast Cancer Awareness' movement for distracting from one of the few things in life that he truly enjoys. Not only is it extremely shocking but it artfully shines light on the ridiculous hypocracy of a movement that is more marketing than substance.

As shocking as his comedy usually is it's surprisingly endearing and disarming. Look past thr 'bitter old guy' image and it's hard not to see an intelligent young idealist who gave up one day and said, "fuck it, I'm going to ride out this existence until the wheels fall off."

BTW, the dead baby joke the author didn't have the courage to share was, "how do you get a dead baby out of a blender... with a spoon."

In short, don't feel bad about laughing at terrible jokes but be on guard when it comes to those who can't find it in themselves to join you.

</comment><comment><USER25> Torture scenes.

</comment><comment><USER26> When Aaron hangs himself.

</comment><comment><USER19> There is a new right to never be offended, with the concomitant privilege of defining what is offensive.</comment>


Moving our privacy advocacy forward to protect Australia and you - <AUTHOR> https://fastmail.blog/2019/02/28/aabill-and-fastmail/ <comment><USER2> > _FastMail's business is not directly affected by this legislation_

Well, they have declared themselves that after the passing of this asinine law, they've lost customers, potential new customers have decided against signin up, and they are frequently asked to relocate to a different jurisdiction. They seem to be very directly affected by this in a business sense.

Edit : Extremely satisfied customer myself, by the way. And I take e-mail for what it is, privacy limitations and all. But worried nonetheless with this sort of thing.

</comment><comment><USER3> I don't get how this blog post helps anything. It seems like they're saying, we did what we can and we will keep trying but we're convinced most of you will just come to peace with it because there aren't a lot of better options (have you actually tried importing mailboxes of any size into ProtonMail?).

No thanks. Much respect to the FastMail crew, and as an American I understand what it's like to have your government passing these kinds of laws. But this is WAY beyond what we've done in the US, in that it requires employees to accept being subverted. That's a bridge too far my friends. US access to international email is offensive, but mandated subversion of employees is ridiculous.

I really hope for Australia to moderate their laws a bit, just like I hope the US will. But I don't think it makes sense to say "oh well" and keep using a provider in the law in question. Really sucks for the hard working people at FastMail, but I have to say no and recommend that others do the same.

Employees of FastMail, has the company considered more internal controls to try to pick up on employee subversion issues? Even if I was conceptually okay with government mandated employee introduced back doors, how do we know the extent of the exposure? What if someone else gets in the same way? It's just way too much to write off in my opinion.</comment>