How Myst Taught a Generation of Gamers to Explore New Worlds - <AUTHOR> https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/exploring-myst-25-years-later <comment><USER2> _> "It took me so many years to realize that the power of all games are not with the characters but instead the actual environment."_

This is an interesting thing to read from the co-creator of a game franchise with a deep enough lore that multiple novels have been published in its universe. The characters in the Myst series are not insignificant – certainly the specter of Gehn in Riven, even though you actually meet him only briefly at the end of the game, is ever-present as you explore the world he ruled and bent to his will.

And yet, that seems to be exactly what Robyn Miller is talking about there: The character of Gehn is important, but the player gets to know him not through direct interaction, rather through exploring the environment. Gehn's screen time is an afterthought to the character development that derives from observing the obsessive details of the places he frequented and shaped. The environment _is_ the character development.

Myst marked a turning point in environmental storytelling, and its effects have been felt all the way from the golden age of first-person shooters into the modern age of "walking simulators." Even when today's games take the overused shortcut of audio logs to fill in the details, the stages they set all track back to those curiously broken chairs in Sirrus' study that made you ask "wait, what happened here?"

<comment><USER3> My preferred model for describing games is: a simulation of some universe, and a way to interact with it. In such a model, learning a story/plot through interaction (with the simplified simulation) is only _natural_ , and storytelling through direct means in the fashion of books/movies, in a game, is clearly a hack, directly conflicting with the nature of a simulation.

And ofc myst was no innovator in this — environmental/interactive storytelling was well established by interactive fiction (IFs), MUDs, text adventures, etc — but it is the quintessential example for modern video games (but thats not saying much imo, since few modern game developers seem to even believe games actually existed before 1990, let alone learn from them)

And thats not to say that all games fit my described model well (eg asura's wrath has almost no simulation/interaction at all, but derives decent impact from the qte mechanic) but at the same time, a lot of games that don't fit the model were doing a job in the wrong medium (the uncharted series has a sufficiently engaging plot [kinda], but it was really just an action/adventure plot told very innefficiently, with a sufficiently engaging but almost totally seperate third-person shooter game interspersed. Both plot/gameplay would have been better served by their own mediums, instead of being composed into an awkward hybrid)

<comment><USER4> I think the true innovators in that realm are games like Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxies, both of which were heavily influenced by Raph Koster, who came from a background of roleplaying in MUDs.

There have been lots of "sandbox" games before and after, but those two really captured the right balance between creating a rich world to explore and giving the player(s) the tools to shape it and create their own stories. They really understood the concept that "it takes a village" of different players and playstyles to form a dynamic community. I think they were really ahead of their time and hinted at what might be possible in terms of creating compelling alternate realities in VR.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I can still hear Myst, the music, the sound of the tree as it rose into the sky. Kerbam! Kerbam! As a kid I wanted few things more than to open a book one day and find a linking page.

<comment><USER6> I remember being, at age 13 or so, in the library of the college my parents taught at, a year or three after Myst came out, and finding a book that was exactly the same (general) style as the linking books.

I have no idea what it actually contained at this late date, only that it was infinitely disappointing that it was _not_ a linking panel. (Probably some sort of dry research.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> I played Myst and Riven at a time when the internet connectivity was very poor, so there were no tips or game guides to help. Got frustrated, me and my friend started playing it as a duo in our spare times, and we would compare notes afterwards. My friend later said that he would see an ordinary gate or a wall, and think of ways around it or over it, for days after playing Myst. Even now, I can remember some of the atmospheric backgrounds - the breezes, the creaks etc. Very spooky and enchanting games. I don't know if I loved them, just that they were an annoying part of my life for 2-3 months.

</comment><comment><USER8> Myst was the only adventure game I abandoned playing. I just never felt immersed; rather it felt like a so-so puzzle game with a bit of window dressing.

</comment><comment><USER9> Gaming pretty much died for a while in my book when these games got popular.

Thanks to games' inferiority complex and desire to look "more like movies", we temporarily ditched most of the things that made games unique in favor of a bunch of laughable full motion video.

Calling these games "interactive" was an extra kick in the teeth, as they were so much less "interactive" than even an early video game like Frogger, Pac- Man, or Robotron where you had multiple (or perhaps over a hundred, in Robotron's case) objects moving around the screen, in real time, at 60fps, each behaving according to its own rules.

Luckily, the industry eventually corrected itself and swung back to creating the kinds of highly kinetic experiences that are unique to the medium.

<comment><USER10> It's a shame because games can be so much more than movies.

Her Story[1] manages to pair an interesting mechanic with with an engaging story. I really recommend setting aside an evening to try it if you haven't already.

It's a shame that the games industry seems to be allergic to using video in games. You can have video with interactivity and story-telling all in one package.

[1] [http://www.herstorygame.com/](http://www.herstorygame.com/)

<comment><USER11> Really neat short game!

It's much better than L.A. Noire at making you feel like a detective and that moment when you figure out what happened is amazing.

The mechanics are limited so it only works a short experience, thankfully it doesn't overstay it's welcome.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I played Myst way too young. I couldn't figure out any of the puzzles and still remember just randomly pressing piano buttons but the atmosphere was so much fun to explore.

<comment><USER13> That damn piano... I'm pretty tone deaf and had no idea what to do there.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> I thought it was really interesting that the first version was written in HyperCard.

<comment><USER15> (And it was ridiculed by some back then as an "interactive slide show".)

If I remember correctly, Myst was a pioneer (if not revolutionary) in a number of areas:

1\. It was one of the first computer games that were distributed with CD-ROM.

2\. It was THE first computer game that was distributed ENTIRELY with CD-ROM.

3\. It was probably the first computer game outside the racing/flight simulator/FPS genres that emphasised a first-person perspective.

4\. It was probably the first computer game that used pre-rendered 2D backgrounds.

5\. It was the first adventure game that isn't dialogue-based or inventory- based (it has a small inventory, but mainly for storing documents rather than tools; if I remember correctly, the first Myst game has only one "tool" that can be "used" at the end of the game). Myst was exploratory. The player wasn't told to achieve any goal.

It also remained as the top best-selling computer game for a half-decade. Its sales record (six million copies) was surpassed only by Half-Life and StarCraft in 1998, five years after Myst was released.

<comment><USER16> Myst was predated - and for some time, outsold - slightly by The 7th Guest, which was very similar in all those respects.

Neither of them were the first graphical adventure games without an inventory, as Loom had come out three years before. Several had likewise been in a first person view, perhaps most notably the MacVenture series in the 80s. The first CD-ROM game was The Manhole in 1989, which had the same designers as Myst.

Generally speaking, none of the individual pieces were particularly innovative, but Myst pulled them off well enough and in a simple enough package to appeal to people who didn't want to _learn_ to play a game. That's a merit unto itself.

<comment><USER15> Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. What I meant was that Myst was the first adventure game that was _neither_ inventory based _nor_ dialogue based. The Loom and The 7th Guest did have no inventories, and technically they weren't dialogue based either (there weren't any dialogue trees that decided how the stories progressed), but they relied quite heavily on dialogues/monologues to advance the stories. In contrast, inventory and dialogues/monologues were almost non-existent in Myst, and the player wasn't told a background story at the outset. This was _very_ unusual in that era.

And I also didn't say that Myst was the first CD-ROM game. What I said was that Myst was the first game that was distributed _entirely_ with CD-ROM. (Actually The 7th Guest was the first, but it and Myst were released in the same year. ) The Manhole, according to Wikipedia, was released on floppies first.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Half of these comments note how Myst captured the imagination. The other half make it clear how the authors had no imagination to spark.

Myst arrived at a turning point in computer gaming, where what it provided gamers was so much beyond what had come before the mind filled in the gaps (as gaping as they truly were, with our 20/20 hindsight).

Sad that some cannot even comprehend what this means.

<comment><USER18> People like what they like. Stop trying to gatekeep.

<comment><USER19> What if what they like is trash?

<comment><USER20> So what? It's not hurting you.

<comment><USER19> I would content that it does, but the effect is pretty minor.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> I can still feel the sounds of Riven in my mind. It was fun moving around and touching things.

</comment><comment><USER22> Not this gamer. My dad got me a copy and I tried for a couple of hours to get past the first bit, couldn't, and gave up forever. Evidently my brain is not suited to that stuff.

</comment><comment><USER23> Myst was the first game that made me feel I was somewhere else.

</comment><comment><USER24> I can recall seeing the back of the CD jewel case as a kid. The scenes were stunning! I can also recall the utter disappointment when it was not something you could walk through and it was point and click. Expectations were not managed well in my case, and I never gave the game a chance after that. It also didn't help that it was installed on a friend's computer, so access alongside boredom did not readily present itself to compel me to try again.

<comment><USER25> Did you ever try RealMyst after that? It sounds like the experience you were looking for.

<comment><USER26> I recently downloaded both. The point and click version plays better.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> Myst and even riven were great but very poorly designed and thought out. When you play for the first time there's a huge hump to get over because you don't know where the puzzle makers are coming from. I tended to overthink the puzzles and over-estimate their difficulty on first finding them, something I think can lead to people abondoning he game when they don't need to. The witness did a great job of easing the player into things. You know exactly who is behind these puzzles and so you never lose your sense of direction so to speak. Also, the interface of myst and riven are very clunky. Clicking the side of the screen sometimes makes you do a 180 but other times only 90. Your sense of space and ability to navigate is totally fucked in myst and riven. I think a game that cleaned that up and added animations between stationary scenes would be very good.

</comment><comment><USER28> What's the best way to play Myst these days? realMyst?

<comment><USER29> There is a new game by the creators called 'Obduction' you could try out. I think its equally playable in VR and not-VR

[https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/how- brothe...](https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/how-brothers- behind-myst-reunited-to-create-mysterious-new-vr-world-172611/)

edit - technolust isn't exactly a myst clone, but if you like the genre its a decent first person adventure game with a killer soundtrack

<comment><USER30> I tried Obduction recently, but it has _so_ much walking just to be in the right place to solve part of a puzzle. I've given up on it for that reason. The Myst series did this better, I think: you never really discovered that actually you were an entire world's length away from where you needed to be to solve the obstacle in front of you. (Possibly I'm just bad at the game.)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> Must intrigued me, but when I played it as a kid I never got into it. Just felt like a puzzle game that was boring.

However, the books that were part of the Myst universe drew me in. I loved the books.

</comment><comment><USER32> Loved myst as a kid. A game I played recently that recreated that sense of wonder and exploration was the Talos Principle. Should definitely try it if you enjoyed the Myst series.

<comment><USER33> Have you tried The Witness? [http://the-witness.net/](http://the-witness.net/)

<comment><USER34> I second Witness. Quern is also good, probably closest game to Myst you can ever find : [https://store.steampowered.com/app/512790/Quern__Undying_Tho...](https://store.steampowered.com/app/512790/Quern__Undying_Thoughts/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> The games themselves are mediocre, but the trilogy of novels (at least the first two), and the Myst and Riven soundtracks are things I will cherish forever.

</comment><comment><USER36> Not playing myself but my wife and her cousin who happen to stay. Play for months and they keep notes. I was stunned only the graphics. The pc then was horrible compared to the mac environment. I do not know that it is faked 3D. But it looks very real to me then.

</comment><comment><USER37> Just today I was looking through old boxes at my parents house. I found my Myst and Riven CDs. I remember playing these games as a kid after my grandfather gave them to me so I would play something other than Doom.

</comment><comment><USER38> I never played Myst, but lately I played Quern and The Talos Principle.

Pretty intense games.

</comment><comment><USER39> It was ADVENT with a gui interface.

<comment><USER25> Arguably, Myst has a more unique and deeper setting than Colossal Cave Adventure / ADVENT. Maybe it's Zork with a GUI, then, but I still love text adventure games (and seriously there's some great innovation still happening with the style, so I know I'm not alone). Therefore, I don't see that as a pejorative. Rather, I'd say that Myst accomplished what games like King's/Space/Police Quest couldn't - they split the adventure game genre, showing how to get away from the text parser - if you want to. I like the more personal, serene experience of a classical turn-based adventure game and the puzzle-solving element still excites me. I've only seen a few games that scratch that itch the way Myst did (and still does).

<comment><USER39> I didn't mean it as a pejorative, just that the game play concept was almost identical to that of ADVENT. Instead of typing "go west" you just clicked.

The innovation was in the graphics, which really pushed the boundaries of what could be done on a computer of that era.</comment></comment></comment>


Dec. 10, 1944: Web Visionary Passes Into Obscurity - <AUTHOR> http://www.wired.com/thisdayintech/2009/12/1210paul-otlet-mundaneum <comment><USER2> A long time ago I posted a video here which contained some amazingly far- sighted quotes by this guy from the 1930s. Maybe I'll see if I can dig it up.

Edit: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=81030>. His vision was the "radiated library". How cool is that. And how accurate. It's uncanny to see this modern thing (the web) depicted in archaic form (with telephones).

</comment><comment><USER3> Always appropriate, Vannever Bush's prescient "As we may think"

<http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/194507/bush></comment>


What if some female Olympians have high testosterone? - <AUTHOR> https://theconversation.com/so-what-if-some-female-olympians-have-high-testosterone-62935 <comment><USER2> If uncommon biological configurations - like the ones described in the article - are a problem then I think there should be another category. At least, this way, everyone is able to play on the same baseline. (But I'd still have my doubts if it would work at all.)

About the tests, I'm sorry, but those are necessary - how else are they going to check who is cheating and who isn't.

Being nude in front of a health professional isn't degrading - they're there to help you. And in this case to make sure you aren't cheating. Ever wondered how many penises, vaginas and breasts doctors observe on a daily basis? Do you really think they'll remember every single one? More often than not they have other stuff to worry about or flat out don't care (in the sense that you do).

Just a FYI:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_drugs_banned_by_WADA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_drugs_banned_by_WADA)

</comment><comment><USER3> I wouldn't be surprised if the officials coming up with these decisions are men. This, really, should stop.</comment>


AVG Free Update Bricks 64-Bit Windows 7 PCs - <AUTHOR> http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/212313/

<comment><USER2> If a device is bricked, it can't be repaired, thus making it as valuable as a brick.

The problem that this update causes can be repaired either by following instructions from AVG, or by reinstalling Windows. It's not bricking anything.</comment>


Introducing Zoho Sign – Digital Signature App for Business - <AUTHOR> https://www.zoho.com/sign/blog/introducing-zoho-sign-a-complete-digital-signature-app-for-business.html <comment><USER2> Zoho has been constantly blowing me away with their SaaS products.</comment>


Largest Hollywood hack in history may have compromised HBO - <AUTHOR> https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/02/largest-hollywood-hack-in-history-may-have-compromised-hbo.html <comment><USER2> I have an AT&T smart phone and they are offering HBO to Go to us. I didn't sign up yet, but looks like if I did my password etc would be stolen.

Was this an exploit or just someone with admin ststus using a weak or easily guessed password?</comment>


Show HN: Find bags and shoes to match - <AUTHOR> http://matchingbagsandshoes.com/

<comment><USER2> Neat idea - do next steps include searching by color or by cost?</comment>


We Know Not the Hour, but Alex Did - <AUTHOR> http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/448515/alex-batey-rip <comment><USER2> Superb bit of writing there. Wow.

All of us could only dream that one day somebody would write such a beautiful eulogy when we pass.

I honestly had no idea where this was going until the end, and it hit me like a ton of bricks -- which is exactly what the writer wanted and exactly how it must have felt to his friends.

Sorry I didn't know you, Big Al, you sound like quite a character.

<comment><USER3> The first paragraph (or maybe it's the sub-head) is "This will be a day none here at National Review and NRI soon forget. This is the day Alex died." So I clearly knew where it was going and it still hit me like a ton of bricks.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> It's a great obit. And when I read it I immediately wondered if he was yet another adult who never got an autism diagnosis: never married and not super social but also not standing on ceremony even with intimidating people like Buckley, obsessed with model trains and their tiny variations, punctual and clearly loving routine, chose work in a mailroom that was all about organization and making order from chaos, and so on.

<comment><USER5> I'm curious... What benefit would you expect a high functioning autistic person like Alex (if he was) receive out of getting diagnosed?

<comment><USER6> A diagnosis may have helped him get medical care, which would have prevented his early death.

Diagnosis in and of itself is often welcomed by people with Autism. This is mentioned in all the English guidance (The Autism Act 2009, the Autism Act Statutory Guidance 2015; the NICE guidance 2012, the national strategy "Fulfilling and rewarding lives" and the newer national strategy "Think Autism") which all talks about the importance of diagnosis as a first step to understanding yourself and getting other people to accept you as you are.

Diagnosis is also an important step in getting services you need.

<comment><USER7> While I don't disagree with you on the benefits of a diagnosis, there is also a decidedly negative side to it. So much so that apparently it's a common practice to warn undiagnosed adults that they might not want to be diagnosed at this point, partly because they made it this far (to put it a bit bluntly) and partly because at least at this time there's not always much that can be done as far as treatment goes.

That said, there's a high chance of comorbidity when it comes to things like OCD and AD(H?)D, and especially the latter _can_ be treated.

(I'm not a licensed psychologist, so don't take this as advice _not_ to get diagnosed. Just providing a counterpoint.)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> There appears to be a YouTube channel. Dedicated largely to model trains:

[https://m.youtube.com/user/yardlet6/featured](https://m.youtube.com/user/yardlet6/featured)

</comment><comment><USER9> I'm not buying the obit writer's hypothesis that Al knew he was going to die and wanted to be around coworkers so as not to die alone.

But I _am_ extremely impressed that this was, apparently, written on the very day Al died. I wonder if 2017 will be known as the year when same-day obituaries became a thing. What a time to be alive! Or ... in Al's case ...

<comment><USER10> I doubt it applies in this case, but many newspapers have obituaries on file (periodically updated, of course) for famous persons, just in case they need one soon.

They would still have to finish it when the day comes they need it, but at least they wouldn't have to rush to get things like the birth date, name of first wife, etc. right.

So, same-day obituaries aren't that rare.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> > Al went to the walk-in medical clinic located next door to NR. Little good > that did.

This doesn't give me confidence in the health system. How is it possible that they couldn't diagnose a life threatening condition? Are these clinics being audited?

What an unfair and unnecessary way to go. RIP Alex.

<comment><USER12> There is a wide spectrum of possibilities here. On one end you have malpractice. On the other end, you have a patient that ignored the clinic's advice.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> I flagged this (I flag lots of things, but rarely say so anymore) because this appears to be a real person who died recently, and the only place I can see this thread going is political --- not least because of where it's running.

It's a well written obit. I'm sorry for these people's loss.

<comment><USER14> It's true, and I had the same concerns. In fact the site is banned, as are most political sites (or penalized) on HN, and a user had to vouch for it.

But the thread (edit: mostly, or barely) hasn't gone there, probably because the heartfeltness of the article is so plain, and also because it manages to be unexpectedly substantive. The fact that it was written just hours after a sudden shock is noteworthy too. I'd say the article rises not just above its genre or its site but the entire category the site belongs to. There's something right about doing that in tribute to one unique human being.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> All of us know a Big Al from somewhere. It would be nice to leave out speculation about whether he was on the spectrum and speculation about the health care system. He's dead. They miss him. It's pretty simple, really.

RIP Alex. May Jesus be your tag-team partner.

<comment><USER7> I don't see how speculation hurts anyone, least of all Alex. Care to elaborate?

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> > Big Al (fact: he wasn't big) was the most punctual and reliable of NR > workers

> Why in God's name did he come in to the offices of National Review this day? > To me it is obvious. Alone in the world except for a loving sister, who > lived far away, Alex Batey knew that he had arrived at the hour that will > arrive for all of us. But he didn't want to die alone. And he didn't.

Can't say if that's accurate or not but it feels fishy that the interpretation is that Alex was ready to die and wanted to spend it with co-workers, coming from another coworker.

<comment> Joe-Z Have you read the text at all?

Sorry to be that guy, but clearly 'big Al' was the office loner (not to say loser) who nobody can really hold anything against but at the same time everybody's happy when you don't have to interact too much with him. Sister living far away and nobody else besides co-workers in his life he may have hoped that someday somebody would walk up to him and ask what's going on, reach out and offer help.

But hey! that was our funny, kinda awkward 'big Al', what can you do about it? Fuck, this story made me so sad!

<comment><USER16> Yes I did read the text. But these aren't Al's words, these are a co-workers words, and we have to interpret them through his point of view. That's why I said it's fishy.

Also,

> Please don't insinuate that someone hasn't read an article.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

<comment> Joe-Z I know and I normally don't do this, so please forgive my rather emotional response. But this obituary made me kind of angry.

To comment on your original point:

I really think there's nothing fishy about it. He probably really wanted to be there, because his co-workers were the only other people in his life. I think the author was spot-on with his analysis, but just left it at that and some 'playful' anecdotes about his co-workers 'quirks' without questioning if maybe there's something to be learned from this, what I would call tragic and lonely death.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Never really thought I'd see a NR article on HN. Good stuff, great obit, RIP Alex.

</comment><comment><USER18> The fact that his options were a small walk-in clinic and the ER (which he apparently did not go to) is a sad indictment of the state of health care in the USA.

If the National Review wasn't ideologically opposed to the very idea of nationalized healthcare this would have been a good cause to reflect on the systemic issues that caused him to have limited options for treatment l, and that may have hastened his death

<comment><USER19> What other options would you expect? Lots of folks don't have, or are between, primary-care physicians, especially one that can see you within a few days. Even in countries with single-payer health care like Canada, these would be the same two options present.

<comment><USER11> Maybe an ER that will not charge an arm and a leg?

The minimum charge one can expect for just walking into ER is in the ballpark of $20k. Just for having a nurse look at you and administrate an IV.

If you have insurance, it may come down to something like $2k. It's silly money, unless you know you are dying otherwise.

<comment><USER20> An ER visit can be expensive, but that number clearly incorrect. Were you just exaggerating for emphasis?

<comment><USER21> My only adult trip to the ER a few years ago was lower, but similar-ish.

Ambulance ride, afternoon in the ER, an MRI, an X-ray, and no treatment needed, came to $9,000, of which I paid $6,000 after insurance.

That said, I know plenty of people who go to the ER dozens of times a year for minor things like colds.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Wonder why a guy came in sick to the anti-labor publication that publishes vile bullshit like a Kevin Williamson piece shitting on the poor people he evicted from a home he inherited: [http://www.nationalreview.com/article/447292/underclass- char...](http://www.nationalreview.com/article/447292/underclass-character- eviction-court-native-born-americans-entrepreneurial-immigrants)

What a self-serving narrative that an employee must have come in when terminally ill because he "didn't want to die alone" instead of that he was falling in line with the calvinist dogshit work culture this publication helped to sustain. Fuck the national review, I hope Alex finally got some peace.

<comment><USER14> We ban accounts that use HN primarily for political and ideological battle. Since that's how you've been using it, we've banned this account.

[https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&prefix=false&page=0&date...](https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&prefix=false&page=0&dateRange=all&type=comment&query=by:dang%20primarily%20battle%20ban)

We do this because, regardless of the politics and ideology you favor, it poisons the site for its intended use, which is the gratification of intellectual curiosity ([https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)). One is about flamewars and smiting enemies, the other is about thoughtful conversation. Can't do both at the same time.

<comment><USER22> If you think politics is not the realm of intellectual curiosity and that there's nothing political about this article you're a fucking sickening human being.

<comment> King-Aaron While yes, there probably is a political leaning to most things one reads... There is a time and place to promote such a discussion, especially when dealing with obituaries.. Perhaps this isn't either the time nor the place.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Everybody is developing on Facebook while I secretly develope for ning. - <AUTHOR>

Hello everyone, I am a huge fan of this site, I make a habit of visiting 2-3 times a day. I respect each and everyone of you, Some times when I read your posts I feel your joys and pains as we all in the same boat here.
I am the founder of 2 sites, one launched 6 months ago (made many many mistake) and I am getting ready to launch my new baby in a month or so.
ok, thats just an introduction.
the reason I am here is to simply share the fact that I have started a side project to develop for the ning platform, I only know one other company that is developing exclusively for Ning (not saying there isnt more). anyway, the reason I am posting this is to see if anybody else is secretly hacking away on apps for ning??
Just a quick note, We are developing apps that the network creator can install on their whole networks, so its really more than a user "widget" if you will. Thanks <comment><USER2> That would make a great PostSecret card.

</comment><comment> patrickg-zill How do you get paid for someone using your ning app?

<comment><USER3> the same way you get paid for someone using your facebook app

<comment><USER4> You mean, you don't...

<comment><USER5> If a facebook app is done right you can make a ton of money. Incentivized offers are a huge money maker when creating facebook apps.

<comment><USER6> Full stop.

Incentivizable offers are a good short term solution. I went from $60 a day to maybe $2 a day whereas subscriptions of $5/month hold steady.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> My first thought was how much this sounds like "All my friends are using Facebook while I secretly am using Ning." A social network's not very helpful if you're the only one on there. ;-)

But the network effects are far different for app developers than for users. Good luck, let us know how it goes!

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Good lord, I cant spell to save my life!

<comment><USER8> I stopped being able to spell after a few years using spell-checkers. Since Firefox started incorporating one, it has become even worse.

In second grade I won a school-wide spelling bee. Today I can't even fire off a proper angry comment on a message board without a spell-checker.

<comment><USER9> There's also the so-called Cupertino effect in which spellcheckers suggest words that are similar but completely wrong, e.g. "worker bees commanded by Queen Elizabeth", or "the third yesterday of January". Basically, one form of sloppiness or illiteracy replaced by another :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Never heard of this ning thing before.

</comment><comment><USER11> Another question, has anyone made any money off a facebook app or myspace, etc.? I'm not convinced that providing entertainment services would be monitizable period. Thus you add value for them, spend money on servers, get 100k users, that pay you nothing.</comment>


Show HN: Kalevala – A multiplayer tile-laying board game in Elm - <AUTHOR> http://alexnisnevich.github.io/kalevala/

<comment><USER2> For these who don't know: Kalevala is the name of the Finnish epic about the origin of the world. As a Finn, I'm interested in why you chose Kalevala as the theme of your project?

<comment><AUTHOR> We based it on a board game called Voluspa about Norse mythology, and we figured that since Finland is right next to Sweden, it was an appropriate reskin. Also, we think Finnish mythology is way cool.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Someone joined my game but I coulnd't do anything. There was a tile but I could not interact with anything. Quit after a minute.

The view rules button isn't working.

Now not getting a match?

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for your input!

The View Rules button should work now - in case there are still issues, you can see the rules here: [http://alexnisnevich.github.io/kalevala/rules.html](http://alexnisnevich.github.io/kalevala/rules.html)

It might be helpful to play Single Player against AI first to get a sense of how the game works. It's possible that what happened with your game was that it was your opponent's turn first but they didn't place any tiles.

It looks like there may be an issue where if you start an online game and disconnect, you can't connect to anyone again without refreshing. I'm trying to figure out what's causing this.

I do apologize for all the issues - as far as I can tell, this is the first time anyone's made an online multiplayer game in Elm, and there's definitely some kinks still to be worked out.

<comment><AUTHOR> As a temporary measure for the can't-connect-after-quitting-to-main-menu issue, quitting to the main menu now refreshes the page instead. Not the cleanest solution, but at least it works for now.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I'm getting a mixed content warning over HTTPS due to Google Fonts. I think using a scheme-less URL (://... instead of [http://](http://)) would resolve the issue.</comment>


Online Text to Diagram Tools - <AUTHOR> https://smusamashah.github.io/text-to-diagram <comment><USER2> This could be life changing for me, very glad I found this.

But for people who want a use case: See that entry called svgbob? That's pretty incredible. If you need a logo for a minor project, just throw some characters in a file and let it do its thing.

From the results there, it'll generate something professional quality, and because it's an SVG, as a logo, it will be superior to any jpg or png file, able to scale to any size without degradation.

</comment><comment><USER3> This came up in the Graphviz discussion yesterday:

[http://www.webgraphviz.com/](http://www.webgraphviz.com/)

<comment><USER4> Another one that came up in the Graphviz discussion: [https://edotor.net/](https://edotor.net/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> An interesting collection, but it would really benefit for an image for each tool. (Or even better, a code sample and image, side by side.)

Without a description, I have no idea, what is the input, outcome, are these popular, are these in active development, are these open source, etc.

<comment><USER6> That was a little too much work TBH because the tools keep changing. I put a minimal textual description which is way easier to maintain.

<comment><USER5> Everything keeps changing. Ang given that, (at least for me) it gives little advantage over a web search.

While more elaborate interactive lists (e.g. [https://explorabl.es/](https://explorabl.es/) and [https://p.migdal.pl/interactive-machine-learning- list/](https://p.migdal.pl/interactive-machine-learning-list/)) might be more time consuming, putting screenshots isn't.

<comment><USER6> The list is about tools from textual descriptions, so is this collection. Having a textual description of syntax or ui makes some sense though.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I've been experimenting with many of them and PlantUML is the best one I've used so far. It has a great feature set, and a lot of ways to define different alignment and styles of the diagrams.

There's also some interesting projects on GitHub for generated PlantUML diagrams, including this one: [https://github.com/thibaultmarin/hpp2plantuml](https://github.com/thibaultmarin/hpp2plantuml)

</comment><comment><USER8> This might be interesting for this post as well: [https://fatiherikli.github.io/archetype/](https://fatiherikli.github.io/archetype/)

This is doing to vice-versa, it allows you to create a text-based diagrams.

<comment><USER6> Thanks for this. Didn't know about this. Added to list.

</comment></comment><comment> m-p-3 I used MermaidJS for some diagram I wanted to add to some of my notes in Markdown, and it was simple enough and Joplin (markdown-based note-taking tool) added support not too long ago.

And you can also add Mermaid preview support to VSCode if that's something you want.

[https://github.com/mjbvz/vscode-markdown- mermaid](https://github.com/mjbvz/vscode-markdown-mermaid)

[https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=bierner....](https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=bierner.markdown- mermaid)

</comment><comment><USER9> So, I never tried to make text diagrams and the thought of doing it (by hand, I assume) haunts me:

How is it considered easy to build a simple table (or diagram) by having to hit keyboard keys and navigate the cursors to seemingly random places to place characters, while keeping the spacing, proportions, etc correct?

I don't like word processors but at least they recognize that if I drawing of building a table I need a different interaction model.

Maybe someone in this thread could highlight use cases where making text- diagrams (that may be later converted using these tools) is better than picking a richer text editor.

<comment><USER10> Making plain-text diagrams isn't as hard as you might think, especially using "overwrite mode" (that weird thing that happens when you fat-finger the insert key!)

But many of these tools work by allowing you to express the _intent_ of the diagram without having to draw it out. They're basically markup languages that get "compiled" into diagrams. PlantUML is a good example: [http://www.plantuml.com/plantuml/uml/SyfFKj2rKt3CoKnELR1Io4Z...](http://www.plantuml.com/plantuml/uml/SyfFKj2rKt3CoKnELR1Io4ZDoSa70000). With these tools, you can make diagrams much, much faster (but usually with less nuanced control over presentation)

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I wish the author added a brief description for each entry and how they differ. I'm particularly interested to find out which is best for making networking topography diagrams. This is still useful nevertheless.

<comment><USER6> Look for the word 'network' in the list

<comment><USER11> I see it now, thank you!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Glad to see nomnoml on this list. I really appreciate the simplicity and it's now my go-to for making diagrams.

</comment><comment><USER13> I'd love on with a basic live collaboration feature. In Covid I'm really noticing the lack of a whiteboard and so long as you know what type of diagram you're doing from the outset I'm found doing something in Mermaid/similar to be much quicker than online whiteboards.

<comment><USER14> Given Mermaid is now supported in Azure DevOps, it's not crazy to think GitHub might support it in the future.

<comment><USER15> Also GitLab

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I'm toying with the idea of using DAG representation of data in my app, and Diagram.Codes [1] did the trick to remind me how to _think_ in DAGs.

[1]: [https://www.diagram.codes/d/graph](https://www.diagram.codes/d/graph)

</comment><comment><USER17> Check out [https://plantuml.com/](https://plantuml.com/). It supports various types of diagrams.

</comment><comment><USER18> I feel like this could've been a README.md in a github repo.. awesome list style

</comment><comment><USER19> This list is missing diagrams.net (draw.io).

<comment><USER6> It doesn't generate diagrams from textual descriptions

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> looking for online erd tools (the mermaid.js one is close to being useful, but not quite)

<comment><USER6> tagged with entity-relationship

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> Great list!</comment>


There are no trends in start-ups - <AUTHOR> http://orrenmedia.com/2009/08/24/heresy-du-jour-1-there-are-no-trends-in-start-ups/ <comment><USER2> Everything in the article is spot-on, however the title is wrong--there are totally trends in startups. URL shorteners, social networks, twitter clones and iPhone app companies are all observable trends. And the lesson for companies following those trends is that they better have damn good ideas _and_ execution, because they're chasing the hardest markets.

</comment><comment><USER3> dasil003, I'd say that the headline was correct, but overbroad. There are lots trends in types of startups out there -- but few big picture lessons that can be gleaned from the success/failure of a small subset.</comment>


Google, the Stupidity Amplifier - <AUTHOR> https://www.gregegan.net/ESSAYS/GOOGLE/Google.html <comment><USER2> Why doesn't he publish his own photo and marks this as his. I understand he may want to remain anonymous but that is such an edge in his profession he should just accept Google keep attributing wrong pictures to his persona.

Upload a GAN image of a person that doesn't exist seems a good workable solution.</comment>


Ask HN: What's a small problem that bugs you in your every day life? - <AUTHOR> We all have small things that annoy us every day. I'm curious, what are some of yours? <comment><USER2> Web pages that suddenly lock up Chrome for ten seconds or more while it apparently does nothing.

Windows apparently starting up and launching apps quickly but then requiring over a minute before anything will actually respond.

</comment><comment><USER3> SoundCloud/Pandora/Spotify advertisements!

My employer blocking SoundCloud!

I'm too far from the NYSE ground floor to hack the market!

Four hours after drinking coffee I become tired!

Good internet forums turning into meme generators!

Tinder girls ignoring me!

* These are actual annoyances.

<comment><USER4> > _Tinder girls ignoring me!_

Highly recommend the book Modern Love. It's funny and entertaining, but it will also make you feel better/differently about online dating.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> In iOS, I cannot copy a block of text from within an SMS message that I have received. I can only copy the entire block of text. I end up pasting it into Notes, and THEN selecting only the text that I want, which I then paste into its final destination app.

</comment><comment><USER6> Ability to write properly only when paper is turned 90 degrees clockwise.

</comment><comment><USER7> Paper Coffee cups that drip every time you sip.

<comment><USER8> Make sure that you are sipping from the side opposite the seam that runs up the side of the cup. If you have a lid, put the hole on that opposite side as well. I believe this reduces the dripping.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Lack of bidets.

</comment><comment><USER10> Your face</comment>


Show HN: Draw your time series with the Time Series Maker - <AUTHOR> http://mbonvini.github.io/TimeSeriesMaker/ <comment><USER2> Nice work. What's the use case?</comment>


Ask HN: Is there a GitHub-like service that can host scientific data sets? - <AUTHOR>

As a biomed researcher just starting to collect my first data, I would like to make it public, but I don't want to be responsible for the maintenance. I can make the code available. Is Github the right answer for the datasets too? <comment><USER2> You need to figure out a few things.

Who is going to use your data? Do they know the format? Do they know how it was collected or generated? Can they reproduce it? Can they understand why it's useful? Is there a paper or other document they can use to understand things?

If someone has questions about the data, who do they contact? (I mention this because that's part of the broader sense of 'maintenance'.)

How big is the data? If it's 1K then you can store it just about anywhere. If it's 1TB then you are much more limited.

How long do you want the data to last? How important is it that it survives past your winning the $70 million jackpot tomorrow and deciding to retire on an internet-free atoll in the south Pacific?

In most cases I deal with, the answers are: 1) almost no one cares about the data until it's been published, 2) it's maybe a few MB, and 3) 5-10 years is fine.

If so, then github, bitbucket, etc. all work fine.

</comment><comment><USER3> A project you should look into and keep an eye on is Dat, a "Git for Data": [http://dat-data.com/](http://dat-data.com/)

</comment><comment><USER4> Figshare: [http://figshare.com/](http://figshare.com/)

DataDryad is another, but it's specifically for data associated with journal publications: [http://datadryad.org/](http://datadryad.org/)

</comment><comment><USER5> You might want to be more specific about the exact type of data that you're dealing with as there might be something relevant to the particular subfield. In general though, I do not know of an all encompassing throw-your-huge-data- here-for-free website.

</comment><comment><USER6> Check out [http://opendata.stackexchange.com/](http://opendata.stackexchange.com/) \- a very similar question has been asked there.

</comment><comment><USER7> How is the data formatted?</comment>


Intake of saturated fat not associated with an increased risk of heart disease - <AUTHOR> http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/ajcn.2009.27725v1 <comment><USER2> Read "Good calories, Bad calories" for more surprising, yet scientifically valid, results.

<comment><USER3> Taubes deserves a Nobel-level award just for that book.

<comment><USER4> Absolutely. If Nobel's were worth anything, he deserves one. I don't know what category it'd fit under though: he should get an award for being an outstanding educator, the conscience of science etc. AFAIK, there's none such.

He did get one for science writing, though that doesn't really highlight the absolutely fantastic job he's done in pointing out how science fails, and tying together threads that specialized (and NIH funded) researchers have no incentive in doing.

NIH needs to set up an educater/conscience medal just for this guy imho.

I really hope he expands that book into a site where he could make available his original interview audio etc.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Okay:

1\. I hope everyone realises that reading one abstract online does not constitute medical advice, or even the true state of scientific knowledge on the field.

2\. If regardless you _do_ intend to base your life decisions based on something you read on-line, I direct you to the publications of the Cochrane Collaboration - the gold standard in meta-analyses and as close as you can get to the final word on the current state of the publication field.

In this particular case, the relevant Cochrane reports seem [I am not a doctor nor do I play one on HN] to say two things:

1\. Dietary changes do affect your cardiovascular risk

2\. But they have to be maintained for long periods (> 2 years) and the vast majority of people are not compliant so in practice they are ineffective.

<http://www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab002137.html>

<http://www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab002128.html>

etc.

<comment><USER6> Cochrane is good, but not infallible.

If you read farther down in your first link: There was no significant effect on total mortality. Do you care if you have reduced your risk of CVD death, if risk of other deaths increase?

The second review is pretty much worthless for the point at hand as it is just determining if dietary advice affects risk factors (and the main benefit found- total LDL reduction- is not a good risk factor anyways).

<comment><USER5> _Do you care if you have reduced your risk of CVD death, if risk of other deaths increase?_

I might if I have a family history of heart disease. I might if I have confounding factors for CVD (like being on oral contraceptives). The point is, this is why people have doctors who went to medical school. Dr Google doesn't know about your particular situation.

Moreover, if I may channel badscience.net for a minute, I think the whole "science says don't eat butter! science says butter is okay!" ping pong reporting undermines public understanding of the scientific process. While this complaint is usually addressed at traditional media, we are in fact being complicit by submitting/upvoting these kind of stories, since we are essentially meta-publishing them.

I do actually agree with you about the fact that total mortality is the most appropriate indicator for people to take to heart, and I do agree that there is a lot of evidence that points to the fact that cholesterol levels are not as correlated with mortality as people who sell you statins will have you think. But that is beside my point.

<comment><USER6> I am glad we are very like-minded, but I will continue to focus on the few differences:

      The point is, this is why people have doctors who went to medical school.

The average doctor knows very little about nutrition and exercise. They are lucky to spend a week's worth of time on it in medical school and generally just repeat what they have been told on the subject. Following your doctor's advice on these issues is a sure way to ruin your health.

<comment><USER5> _Following your doctor's advice on these issues is a sure way to ruin your health._

I actually don't agree with that. While I am willing to believe that the average doctor's understanding of nutrition is incomplete, I doubt the average punter's is any better.

Most people I personally know that "self-medicate" with advice they found on the Internet or read from some popular pseudo-science book seem to be engaging in magical thinking, and/or doing a great job ruining their own health by themselves. Perhaps you run with a more informed crowd.

<comment><USER6> I agree that this is a big problem. However, there aren't just 2 alternatives: your doctor's pseudo science or somebody else. Another alternative is to not listen to any advice at all and just eat what you want. America might actually be much healthier today if the government (including through doctors) never started pushing their nutritional advice on us.

I do agree that taking responsibility for your own health is a difficult, time consuming task that may be highly wasted if one can't distinguish between valid and invalid information. I wish I could figure out a way to help people with this process. If I show someone scientifically dense information their eyes glaze over.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Thank you for linking to the actual study and not an awful news report of it!

That being said, here is a blogger that I think is adding some value to the discussion of it. [http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2010/01/saturated- fat...](http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2010/01/saturated-fat-is-not- associated-with.html)

</comment><comment><USER7> The National Dairy Council: sounds like an official, government-backed organization. It turns out to be a brand owned solely by the American Dairy Association. Always this tangential choice of words that don't quite hide, don't quite tell the truth. Wrap this in a seemingly serious research paper, and you've got yourself a new "fact" that the average Joe sure can't debunk.

</comment><comment><USER8> "Supported by the National Dairy Council ..."

Doesn't make the research invalid, but it does make me go "hmmm."

<comment><USER6> Also supported by the NIH. Why is it that Dairy is a conflict of interest, and the NIH isn't? These researchers may have trouble every getting an NIH grant again. People don't realize the kind of influence that our government funded research system has on the outcome- it is perhaps the main reason why the result of this study might be surprising to someone.

Overall the dairy industry would probably greatly benefit from a recognition that saturated fat is healthy. However, the economics of Dairy with fat/saturated fat is actually kind of strange. On the one hand, dairy ends up getting demonized. But on the other hand everybody buys low-fat milk and low- fat cottage cheese. This lets the re-use the most valuable part of the milk (cream) at low costs for butter, ice cream, etc. Even though those foods have been demonized too, people will always want to eat ice cream.

<comment><USER8> "Also supported by the NIH. Why is it that Dairy is a conflict of interest, and the NIH isn't?"

Because "Overall the dairy industry would probably greatly benefit from a recognition that saturated fat is healthy."

Again, I'm not saying the research is invalid. It would benefit everyone to accurately know what's healthy, what's not, and what doesn't matter so much.

And yes, of course, an industry that sells saturated fat should know as much about saturated fat as possible. But this is the world, and it makes sense to treat such a study and its participants with healthy skepticism.</comment></comment></comment>


Samsung drops security updates for some devices, demotes others to quarterly - <AUTHOR> https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/10/07/samsung-drops-security-updates-for-three-devices-demotes-others-to-quarterly-updates/ <comment><AUTHOR> From TFA:

Now imagine this - you buy a computer from an OEM, with its OS on top of the hardware. It's a good PC, fast, snappy, powerful and you paid $5k for it. 2 years later the OEM stops updating the OS, because its shareholders request higher revenue and the OEM can't charge you for what you already own so it needs to look for other means to get money from you. Everything is fine with your PC, it's still blazing fast and does everything it's intended to, but as of now, any kind of security bug might compromise your device, your home network, your work network and may result in you loosing your money, other property or even your entire identity, which in extreme situations can lead to death. Just because the OEM wants your money. And you can't just update the OS and be safe again, you need to buy new hardware, because the OEM decided that his new OS won't support his old hardware.

This is what we allow them to do to us.

</comment><comment><USER2> Samsung has a history of giving up on updates for devices, I commented recently elsewhere on HN how this is the reason I wont buy Samsung anymore; to name a couple: My SmartTV dropped after 1 year (no Java updates since 2013, yay!), and two Android phones dropped 1.5-2years after purchase...granted, one of them wasn't upgradable to the next major Android release, but they still stopped security patches regardless</comment>


Larry Summers Nails The Economic Implications of The Facebook-WhatsApp Deal - <AUTHOR> http://www.businessinsider.com/larry-summers-on-whatsapp-2014-2

<comment><USER2> So, it's not an investment bubble because the new start-up's don't burn as much cash as dotcoms did? Is that the conclusion? What about all the people holding value stock at P/E's of 50-100, and more?</comment>


Ask HN: Are inline links or a reference section better for accessibility? - <AUTHOR> For those who are visually impaired, it seems like inline links (especially long ones) could create a lot of noise. Is it better to put them at the end of an article/page and use some sort of reference system. Is there a standard way of doing that? <comment><USER2> I prefer inline. References at the end break my concentration. You're not writing academic papers so you're free to do what makes sense for you.

<comment><AUTHOR> Are you using plain text/screen reader, or rendered content?

<comment><USER2> Rendered. But if I'm writing/reading my own RestructuredText, I just put the link in a line of their own within the paragraph.

I generally write a sentence per line in rst, and break lines on commas. It's good for version control.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> I like the way Wikipedia does it. Inline links to go to a new page but in page links to represent footnotes. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter)</comment>


Pearl No. 4 – Kth Smallest in the Union of Two Sorted Collections - <AUTHOR> http://typeocaml.com/2017/10/19/pearl-no-4-double-binary-search/ <comment><AUTHOR> This blog post is about using OCaml to solve the Pearl No. 4 in the book of "Pearls of Functional Algorithm Design, by Richard Bird".

I am very keen to OCaml and so using OCaml to solve various algorithm problems to have some fun.

</comment><comment><USER2> Confusing because the problem statement says you cannot assume anything about the data structure storing each set. To me, that implies it must be treated as a stream -- not an array with indexing.

But yeah, if they are arrays, you use binary search. Not obvious, but also straightforward if you are looking to beat O(k).

</comment><comment><USER3> Is there a good reason for this article forcing me to scroll back to the top of the page half way through?

<comment><USER4> This page is difficult to read on mobile. Feels like pulling taffy.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> If the data structures can be split (as it seems), then the first step should be to get the head k element of both collections, so we only have to work with a maximum of 2k elements. Then the solution is not O(2 * log(N)) but O(2 * log(min(N,2k))).

<comment><AUTHOR> Good thought, and also if k < N / 2

</comment></comment><comment> a-nikolaev There is a related problem on leetcode (Find the median of two sorted arrays):

[https://leetcode.com/problems/median-of-two-sorted- arrays/de...](https://leetcode.com/problems/median-of-two-sorted- arrays/description/)

</comment><comment><USER6> The article keeps mentioning _sorted sets_ , which is slightly confusing, because I am familiar with sets being defined, both in math and every programming language I know, as unordered. Is _set_ in OCaml an ordered collection usually?

<comment> a-nikolaev The article mentions word "set" only in the statement of the problem. And even in that statement it's made clear that the choice of words is intentional, because the underlying data structure is not specified, so it doesn't have to be an array immediately.

Ordered collection != sorted collection, btw. Sorted collections are actually more like sets than like arrays. A data structure that stores the elements in a sorted fashion is actually able to store an unordered collection with naturally defined insertion / deletion operations. (In OCaml, Set data structure is represented as a balanced binary tree, for instance, and it requires an order relation defined for its elements.)

<comment><AUTHOR> Sorry for the confusion. You are absolutely right. I just copy/paste the original problem statement in the book.

Will change

<comment><USER7> Could you add "disjoint" to the title? It's _so close_ to containing the gist of the problem. If anyone else goes from the title to the solution, it'll save some confusion.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> If you're like me, and have forgotten union vs intersection, I'll restate the question: Sets A and B are each sorted, and they have no elements in common. If you combine A and B, what would be the kth smallest element?

<comment><USER8> The sets do not necessarily have no elements in common - their union is the set of all the elements in either of them. (Being a set, it does not have 'duplicates' even if an element appears in both of your A and B.)

<comment><USER7> The lack of overlap is mentioned in the body, but not in the title.

The title is _so close_ to presenting the problem on a way that people could fully consider how they'd handle the problem _before_ following the link. Just add "disjoint" to the title.</comment></comment></comment>


Can Microsoft plant backdoor on Linux source in GitHub secretly? - <AUTHOR> Linux repository - https://github.com/torvalds/linux <comment><USER2> It's open source.

Everybody would be able to see it. It might be hard to figure out, but you couldn't get away with it forever.

For that matter anybody who contributes to Linux could contribute a bad patch. Remember that a bad patch doesn't have to look like it has evil intent, it just looks like the author wasn't being careful with memory and... oops, there is a buffer overflow there.

<comment> java-man remember heartbleed?

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I'm not aware this is possible. The git commits form some kind of depended hash tree, so you can not "rewrite history" without screwing up that tree.

Meaning: If someone altered the code on GitHub, the current trunks hash would change. Subsequently, if Torvalds tries to push to this repo, he would receive an error.

Of course MS could offer Torvalds one "version" of the git, and everyone else a "tampered version"; keeping the two in perfect sync. But since the kernel git is also located on other sites, this tampering would show up rather sooner than later.

Edit, some small nit-picking: I think this should be prefixed with "Ask HN:" ;)

</comment><comment><USER4> Is github the master, or a sync from somewhere else? Are the commits GPG signed? Does anyone here know for a fact the build/test pipeline(s) validate on checkout that git has no errors and require human intervention if it does?

</comment><comment><USER5> Never ascribe to stupidity that which can adequately be explained by malice masquerading as stupidity.

<comment> java-man straight out of the manual!</comment></comment>


Visa Demand Jumps - <AUTHOR> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324883604578396680112980530.html

<comment><USER2> The visa situation in the US is ridiculous.

<comment><USER3> Disposable workforce, both domestic and foreign.

Perhaps the worst part is the propaganda in the U.S. that works hard to convince young people otherwise.

And the impact this can have on some people who are truly altruistic. (As in, working together, we achieve more.) With respect to this, such an individual's outcome may depend somewhat on "luck of the draw". Get into an exploitative situation that e.g. adversely impacts your health, and you may end up on the "scrapheap" of employment opportunity and success.</comment></comment>