25 Startup Ideas for 2012 - <AUTHOR> http://www.judegomila.com/2012/01/challengeyourself-in-2012-ivelisted.html <comment><USER2> "Build a holodeck", "Read/write cells for under $1000", "biological satellite that... deploys/builds itself", "build quantum gears"...

This seems more like 25 Startup Ideas for 2042.

<comment><AUTHOR> I added some fun ones in there as well...though OpenPCR have made really good headway on the cheap desktop bio hardware front.

<comment><USER3> OpenPCR is totally different from "read/write cells" much less "read/write cells for under $1000". A truly useful "BioCAD" isn't an engineering problem yet: there's a very substantial amount of basic research required. Synthetic gene circuits evolve rapidly, for one: let's say you designed and "CAD-tested" your circuit, how will you keep it from mutating within a few days? Unsolved research problem.

> Build a database for biology.

Better than Entrez/NCBI? They have a _ton_ of data. Yes, not _particularly_ user-friendly in the way the web community might be used to, but it has all of the data and biologists know how to read it. What would you add? (Yes, there's a lot to add -- but it's not a matter of a prettier UI, and NCBI does have an API already that people find usable).

> Reading DNA in vitro

What does this mean? Sequencing DNA without extracting it from a cell? Why? Sequencing is largely a solved problem now. Costs are dropping faster than Moore's law, and there's literally a thousand vendors who will do it. Even synthesis is advancing so fast that people are beginning to talk about not doing subcloning anymore and just synthesizing the entire construct! (Note that just because we can synthesize kbp oligos now doesn't mean that they're biologically useful in much other than bacteria and yeast, though... pesky things like epigenetic modifications and nucleosomes/genomic DNA packing... among others.) Also, the extension of "writ[ing] DNA sequences into plasmids using the capacitance of the cell wall via [a] nano tube" seems a bit far from current technology.

That said, I think these are important problems and I'd _love love love_ to see more people working on them versus more web and iphone apps! This was not the list I expected to see, which is awesome. But the biology-related ideas don't come across as being communicated with much sophistication.

<comment><AUTHOR> I would also love to see more startups in this area. It would be amazing to open biology to every engineer on the planet. I'm thinking of a arduino like revolution but for biology. Achieving read/write cells for under $1000 on the desktop would open up biology to an entire new set of people. I'm not a biologist, but I'm intrigued by what we can unlock in this field.

OpenPCR is a good example of frugal engineering applied to the space. I hope to see more attempts at making this hardware cheaper and accessible.

Regarding the spec on the Database. User friendliness would be a start, can you throw in what you would want to improve - I'm interested in your ideas?

The company "ion torrent" caught my eye regarding the in vitro DNA sequencing. It disrupts Halcyon Molecular and could cut the cost down even quicker.

<comment><USER4> Why are you convinced you need to open biology up to engineers? Is that currently not the case?

The fact is you really can't do much with a PCR machine. Sure, you can identify your friends boogers. But it only reduces one tiny aspect of overall cost. Add a centrifuge, a flow cytometer, a gel box, some incubators, and then maybe you have a functional 'garage' lab.

But again, you don't achieve much by having immediate in vitro sequencing. Not sure what the point is.

The real barrier then is literally funding and the capacity to do the research. And that's exactly what my startup is doing.

<comment><USER5> <https://www.breakoutlabs.org/about-us.html> looks like an interesting entrant into funding early stage research outside academia. Any thoughts on them?

<comment><USER4> Without revealing too much of what I am doing, this doesn't really solve any existing problems. Honestly, Intellectual Ventures is better than this in that they get straight to the point. They will just buy your IP for some ridiculous amount of money, whether it's from the university or your company.

If you ask a science researcher to be able to do the research outside of his lab, the size of your potential audience falls to fingers on one hand.

At least Bill and Melinda Gates foundation does better in pushing a goal with their own agendas. This seems like an unfocused attempt to throw money into the pit, though money always helps.

So, as a researcher, I've learned that researchers are the best ones who can dictate their own goals. That's freedom that hasn't been seen yet, and there's a very simple solution. Just execution is very difficult.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Some other big problems:

        Prisons
        Retirement for not-so-rich people
        Government procurement
        Shipping (in developing countries)
        Customs (in developing countries)
        Utilities prices in Northern countries
        Digital democracy (removing corporate influence on elections)

<comment><USER7> There is a solution for retirement for not-so-rich people, it's called tax free, mandatory, funded, and benefactor owned superannuation. It forces everyone to contribute to their own retirement. It stops companies or governments from dipping into the "pot". It's tax free and so allows proper growth not only for the funds in question, but also allows for growth in the economy. Obviously there are some corner cases but these can be accounted for fairly easily. In short it is good for just about everybody.

The more countries that adopt this the better.

<comment><USER8> The downside in Australia is that the great majority of less-financially- oriented people put their money into 'super schemes' which are designed to swindle you and on average give you a worse return for your money than just leaving it in a bank (without even accounting for the excessive fees and charges).

<comment><USER7> True, most managed funds are a rip off. I remember many eons ago in my first job out of school, I worked at a factory. The company selected super fund sent some peons out to brief us about our fund, but we just shredded them by asking common sense questions. The peons were obviously PR people who had no idea about investment and were hoping that some four colour glossies would keep us happy.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> There's actually a lot of "AirBnB for Activities." Our company used to be Skyara (<http://www.skyara.com>). We ended up pivoting to RAVN (<http://ravn.com>), which is more of a "Amazon for Activities," per se. I think we were definitely one of the first ones to try to enter the "AirBnB for Activities" space but had a very hard time.

While in theory it sounds like a great concept, the key to realize is that no "AirBnB for Activites" can ever be an "AirBnB for Activities." What I mean by that is: the part of the "AirBnB for X" business model that makes it work is the part where you have a very low marginal cost to renting out an existing resource that, presumably, is getting very low utilization. I.e. a car sitting in a garage, an empty couch. The marginal cost of renting those out... is basically zero. However, with Activities, the resource at play is actually time! A person needs to take two hours out of their day to offer a walking tour, cooking class, etc.

Arguably, time is _the_ most scarce resource we have. People value their time highly, which means the marginal cost (in this case the opportunity cost) of them offering an activity is very high. Add to that the fact that individuals do not benefit from any sort of economy of scale, and that most likely means that they cannot compete with businesses on price (which is arguably where AirBnB is winning in its biggest market, NYC).

So of course, I'm not saying an "AirBnB for Activities" is not possible, but some fundamental problems make it significantly more difficult than one might initially expect. Personally I think Vayable is doing a great job, but time will tell...

Oh also, AirBnB took something that already was happening (sublets on Craigslist) and just rebranded/made it better. Not much "Activities" activity going on on Craigslist. It's mostly for services, like painting, plumbing, car mechanics, etc. So you sometimes question if the demand actually even exists?

Anyway, I could write a loooong post-mortem on Skyara but you get my point.

<comment><USER10> Besides you guys, who else is doing something like this?

<comment><USER9> Someone already posted some below: <http://hackerne.ws/item?id=3524864>

<comment><USER10> Thanks.

How are these sites overcoming the chicken and egg issue of attracting interesting activities from locals? Gathering enough visitors to the site to make transactions meaningful?

<comment><USER11> From building a marketplace at Ridejoy (YCS11), I can tell you that this early market building is very unique to each team/product/market and also one of the most valuable "secret sauces" for the company. Anyone who really knows probably won't tell you, and most people who might write a response are mostly guessing. At least that's what I think.

<comment><USER10> These marketplaces share a lot of core business similarities to that of the daily deal market as early as four year ago, no? At scale (depending upon which niche you choose for your site) will require money in to make "money out". No one in this thread seems to be highlighting this with the exception of those sites listed, little VC dollars have been invested thus far.

It's a serious question and one that's not secret sauce, I'd argue. The execution of your business and that of any sticky viral hooks you can build in will leave you at the winner's circle years from now.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Often the path to a discovery is not direct. Facebook stumbled upon social search several years after putting up college yearbook profiles online first...

So I like 7, building a database of biology but to tackle that head on would be impractical (financially). That is the end goal that we have at my startup, but we are starting out by helping labs manage their reagent and chemical inventories first. Sounds mundane but the eventual goal is to get to a crowd- sourced global database for biology. Remains to be seen how it pans out.

My point is that such lists of top X ideas can be useful but often the biggest challenge is plotting the trajectory. And often the path is not a straight line.

<comment><USER13> We're working on idea 7 as well, but a completely different angle compared to your company, check out <http://www.sbgenomics.com> \-- instead of all of bio, we start with genomics, and also emphasize computation. Sounds like we're compatible pieces of the puzzle!

<comment><USER4> I just signed up for an invite, along with an extra message! I want to learn more about this.

Also, I've been meaning to contact those guys at Quartzy too. Can I also get in on the strategic partnering?

<comment><USER12> Cool! I can be reached at jayant /at/ quartzy.com

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Am I the only one who has realized, that all you startup people are scared of science? Are the ideas on the list really that hard to fund?

We have some very real problems in this world, but all you seem to care are iPhone/Android apps and stupid websites (copied from one another I guess).

<comment><USER2> Yes, these "science" ideas (actually, traditional engineering) really are that hard to fund.

One thing software people _always_ forget is how expensive it is to perform R&D on real, physical things. Software is practically free to produce in comparison - your big campus of 1000 engineers, with free lunch and masseuses, is practically free in comparison to say, the cost of developing a new drug, or introducing a revolutionary new jet engine.

I don't think it's necessarily true that VCs only care about iPhone/Android apps, but they honestly cannot afford to invest in "real" engineering. The risks are just as great, and the stakes are far, far higher, beyond the deep pockets of many angels and VCs.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> >> Build the database of biology

We are running a biological data warehouse, with a clean API in 4 languages. The problem is that the source data are incredibly messy and you have a lot of "blank" values. People then do not know if data are missing or if there really are no data to begin with. Who does the curation?

<comment><USER4> Is that because you have lots of variation over different values? I've tried using websites like Bionumbers, but can't tell if it's curated or not, and is basically now useless. How is yours different?

<comment><USER15> Ours is not curated either (our sources should be). We take data from the likes of Flybase, Ensembl, UniProt, BioGRID and really anything you want and make a more coherent picture using various graphs and widgets.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Good brain dump.

This though: Bitcoin - "Let the IRS/FEDs be involved and stick to the law." You need to file under _Things that will never happen_. The U.S. will not permit a _rogue currency_.

<comment><USER17> Who is to say they will have a choice?

I am not being cute here, but the power of any government is their monopoly on violence. That assumes, however, that the government knows whom they are up against.

What if the next generation cryptocurrency was truly anonymous? Then you wouldn't be able to stop it, even if you wanted to.

<comment><USER16> perhaps. I enjoy watching the evolution of bitcoin. But I don't see the U.S. gov playing along.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> The biggest problem is this:

We spend our lives accumulating valuable knowledge and relationships. Then we allow our elders to just die and let that knowledge and their relationships die with them. Why are youngsters forced into teaching jobs, when they have no life experience to novate to kids?

Find a mechanism for achieving a solid transfer of knowledge from the elderly to the young (the caveat being the young need to be taught to reason for themselves and filter out the less useful bits)

For the record: sending kids to school does not equal them being educated or learned.

<comment><USER19> Great point.

Though you may have not thought of something: wisdom (which is what you seem to be referring to) works something like this:

wisdom = knowledge(experience(actions(decisions * time) * time) * time) * time //why do I always end up writing lisp?

We spend our whole lives developing our wisdom, but we also spend our whole lives learning how to acquire it, and how to understand it.

How do we transfer something that strictly depends on time and discipline (when time is undefined for all, and discipline is lacking)?

<comment><USER18> Is not some of the best learning those things we don't appreciate at first but then we encounter an example and that pearl of wisdom someone imparted on us years ago flashes up and all in the world makes sense? :)

I love the lisp... can I post it on twitter? What's your twitter handle?

<comment><USER19> Thank you for the nice comment.

I do not use twitter, but you can feel free to tweet it. Just send the profits of the tweet to the FSF. =)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> It's, er, interesting to see Wonga listed as something to emulate. The only context I've heard of them in before is people wishing fiery death upon them for exploiting the desperate.

<comment><USER21> That and articles about investors piling ever more money in because it's a cash machine.

BTW - people are working on this in the US, though it moves more slowly due to state by state regulations

[http://techcrunch.com/2012/01/19/former-google-cio- raises-73...](http://techcrunch.com/2012/01/19/former-google-cio- raises-73-million-to-reform-payday-loans-with-data-driven-startup-zestcash/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> _2\. Gamify learning core subjects: specially maths and physics to start. 3\. Allow the community to make lessons and have voting systems for quality._

As someone who is itching to start an e-learning startup, what would be some ways to implement this?

For the user-created lessons, maybe have an IDE-like enviroment with a domain- specific "programming language" that enables non-coders to easily create educational modules and upload them. Think SCUMM but for the e-learning domain.

Thoughts, anyone?

<comment><USER23> I think this hasn't been done well because it is more difficult than creating something like wikipedia. One of the reasons wpedia works is because you can enforce a non-redundancy policy. There can only be one article on any one topic. In education, however, there are many ways to teach any one concept. So you have to allow people to create different lessons on the same topic, but also create a simple pathway through all these lessons. Khan academy has been successful in this for math, but I think a good part of that is because there is one person clearly running the show, an intensely productive man who spits out several videos a day, for years. Crowdsourcing that work is an interesting challenge.

As a teacher, I'd love to see this done well. But it seems most people who go into these ventures either don't get education, or don't get technology. It seems there is a pretty small group of people in the world who really get both fields. It's also hard to put together a team of people who get both. And finally, the profit motive kills a lot of education endeavors. Education is fundamentally a human right, and profit motives tend to exaggerate the achievement gap. There is plenty of room for new thinking in this area.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> Wonga for USA: a lot ( and there are v many clones ) of these lending companies are already US companies.

They have presences in USA, but have exploded in the UK because the Usury laws are less restrictive.

[http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-are-payday- loa...](http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-are-payday-loans-the- cheapest-option) And that evenings Channel 4 news piece where the industry spokesman talks about it.

<comment><USER25> I don't get why Wonga specifically is so respected among VCs. Isn't there tons of these kind of companies around? It's the old good business model of usury.

In Finland we have tens of companies offering short term cash loans based on text messages. I know few of these guys. If well-executed, these companies are money making machines, but they have very little of moat. You can enter this industry easily, if you have enough cash for initial advertising.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> > 15\. Airbnb for Activities

See <http://www.gidsy.com>

<comment><USER27> And <http://www.vayable.com/>

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> What sucks is that I completely built #1 on his list, tested it, but was afraid to launch due to the combination of PATRIOT changes to the BSA and FinCEN regs.

Long story short: I don't want to start a startup that sends me to jail or regulatory hell if it becomes successful.

If anyone wants to buy coinpur.se, let me know. :)

<comment><AUTHOR> Launch it. Worst case scenario is that you become second place in modern warfare 3 global rankings.

<comment><USER29> More like worst case is you become the second level in modern warfare 4.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> You already realized why reading DNA in virto [sic] immediately is kind of pointless, because you still can't immediately make it.

Current DNA logic gates can already do sequence recognition as sensors in vivo but also provide flexible signals.

Also, there are already standardized part registries out there, like BioBricks.

And lastly, a YC for biotech wouldn't work because of the time frame, but even more so because of regulations. Anyone can build a device or drug, but it's all proof of concept until you put it in a lab or clinical study.

Oops, also that there are a bunch of academic bioCAD programs. Tinkercell is one that does extensive simulations.

Boom. Roasted.

</comment><comment><USER30> Reading DNA without taking it out of a cell sounds like such an awesome idea. All you need is bunch of proteins to do that. All those proteins are just _DNA sequences_. possibly even Biobricks. So all that translates to "Just introduce a plasmid into a cell and the necessary woodoo happens inside the cell... which sets off some kind of cascade which can be read out by say a CCD or voltage detector." So the startup is all about just designing DNA sequences for protein. And these days even novices have begun to design proteins. This is just brilliant!!! Instead of 1000$ per genome how about 99 cents?? Of course I have no clue how long it should take to reach there beyond extrapolating on a log graph...

Someone here stated the moore's law for sequencing. Which while true needs disruptive startups for each transition. Fortunately or unfortunately these startups dont work like an intel doing similar drudgery year after year to continue doubling... each major leap happens by a radical switch of strategy. As he states the case of Ion Torrent, each step centers around an awesome breaktrhough. But it also raises the question... Will the cost of computation become a bottleneck for a 99 cent genome. Sequencing and synthesis are a lot more useful than just medical diagnosis. Let us not undermine the value of a 99 cent genome or a 1 cent genome sequencing/synthesis capability.

</comment><comment><USER31> Are these really ideas for typical startups. The high tech ideas aren't very well suited for startups. More for Universities and big corporation's side projects.

<comment><USER32> God forbid a technology startup actually have to develop new technology. No, I'm sure another CRUD/mobile app that hooks a bunch of buzzwords up to Facebook and Twitter with metaphorical bungie cords is a _much_ better idea.

<comment><USER33> Well, at least you would get a shit-ton of VC attention and funding.

Some of us are out here developing physical things and process technology and nobody wants to give us a second look. Putting things in boxes isn't sexy enough, unless you're Apple.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> A market for IP isn't terrible. But there, volume isn't high enough and transaction costs (ip lawyers in a room talking, are too high) The rest I'm not so sure about.

A few are a ways out and even then are hard sells (even w/ holodecks, how would you sell them? Home, arcades? Who's the market and how much money do they have? Hardly a slam dunk) I'm thinking the 3do times 100 for holodeck development/productization.

Yardsale isn't bad, but Craigslist is pretty close as is (my gf goes crazy when she sees yard sale signs (instant, location based discovery) but she checks craigslist too.

A bunch--I'm not sure what they mean. Even the education one is much harder than it might seem, at least as a business. Im really rooting for codecademy and the like, but they've got a tough road as its hard to get most people interested in educating themselves, and even moreso to get them to pay.

How about starting with a market with money and a problem and working backwards?

</comment><comment><USER35> I think it's a good list of ideas which sadly will not appeal to most entrepreneurs. You may disagree, but I personally think that founders tend to run away from scientific research and for good reasons. It's very hard to find funding if the service you want to provide doesn't revolve around the generic list of facebook/twitter mashups, mobile apps and SAAS services which solve nonexistent problems. Think about it, you can spend 2 months building a typical CRUD app, make money the first week and keep your investors happy. Or spend years looking for the bright minds who share the same enthusiasm and belief in your scientific research and them (maybe) find enough money to build the final product. This is probably the reason why these things are worked out in university labs, not startup incubators.

</comment><comment><USER36> I don't know why, but I tried opening this site in 3 different mobile browsers and couldn't get it to scroll.

<comment><USER4> Man, if anything this article proved to me that I should always be absolutely terrified of pressure testing half-baked ideas on HN. And if I have the balls to do so, at least make sure my blog works.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> Isn't 2 pretty much Khan Academy ?

There are several Health focused YC-clones: Rockhealth, Healthbox, Blueprint, etc.

Also it's not clear what "Etsy for IP" means, there are already stock photo libraries, sites for selling code snippets, sites for selling brandnames, etc. Is there a particular type of IP you're thinking about?

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm thinking more interactive than Khan Academy.

Health focused YC clones are out there, there are no bio tech focused ones though.

On the Etsy for IP. I never felt much of a community with stock photo websites. I suppose this site would pull together all forms of IP under the platform.

In general, I think in the startup space, even subtle variation on the idea and positioning (given great execution) can lead to a winning startup.

<comment><USER37> Have you tried the Khan Academy exercises (with hints, etc.) ?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> Interesting list with some good ideas. At the moment, I have time and talents but (surprisingly) no interesting ideas to work on. I was really hoping to see something on there involving machine learning or NLP. Anybody have any needs or ideas in that realm?

<comment><USER39> Go through this collection of finished ideas: <http://www.ideaoverload.com/Find-ideas/#Finished>

</comment></comment><comment><USER40> These are really good..and thought provoking

A couple of mine are:

\- Repurpose the top floors of parking garages to incorporate green space in urban centers

\- Black Hole Taxi: Marketplace for on demand user video (eg - I pay you a fee to walk around the grand canyon)

\- Open spaces that are free co-working CS learning centers for middle and high schoolers (I'm working on one in Los Angeles)

\- Mixergy for the rest of business (eg. the BUSINESS of yoga, the BUSINESS of real estate brokerage, the BUSINESS of photography) not just how to do 5 new poses, hold a better open house, craft a better photo

<comment><USER41> How about reddit for businesses, so the subreddits are business categories ("gyms, restaurants, florists") trading tips and meeting each other.

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> "This satellite would self deploy/build itself at least partially to reduce weight..."

...I'm pretty sure you're not going to save much mass by soaking in a year of sunlight...

<comment><AUTHOR> You would need to take on some mass from space. The satellite would have a post launch snack.

<comment><USER42> If that's the plan, I don't think you've reduced complexity by plotting a zero-gravity rendezvous with a cheeseburger

<comment><AUTHOR> You could fire it at some of the older satellites?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> One I'm looking at - Google Analytics for print/billboard ads.

Adwords/Analytics is great, because you can see exactly how much money you're spending, and exactly how many sales/conversions/downloads you're getting for that money.

In the print world, this becomes much harder to measure. I'm looking at easy ways to make that happen

<comment><USER44> Are you looking for a solution or looking to work on it as a start-up idea? I am interested in this domain and have few ideas.

<comment><USER45> Would love to group chat about this in detail. I'm toying with this niche as well.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> The IFILB Project. I fell in the lifeboat Project staring Captain Francesco Schettino. Prison dating network.

</comment><comment><USER47> 18\. A BankSimple for the payroll industry

I've thought about this one myself. Seems like an industry ripe for disruption too: with complex, expensive systems from a monopoly player (ADP). Can anyone offer some insight as to why we haven't seen startups in this space?

<comment><USER48> Because few entrepreneurs or VCs are interested in reading the Internal Revenue Code.

</comment></comment><comment><USER49> "Wonga for USA"

 _googles Wonga_

"Welcome to Wonga. We can deposit up to £400 in your bank account by 20:39 today. Representative APR ___4214%_ __."

Cost of implementing this idea: your soul, your self-respect. Even if you pour all of the proceeds into "build a holodeck".

</comment><comment><USER50> I'm surprised someone hasn't built an ad supported Imgur clone yet, kind of like a you-tube for images. They could determine context by tracking the websites giving referrals, parsing comment content, scanning and analyzing the images.

</comment><comment><USER51> Build a holodeck.

Yeah. Okay.

<comment><USER52> I'm actually kinda hoping this one doesn't happen. Well, sort of. _If_ we actually had a holodeck, wouldn't that mean the end of all progress for humanity? I mean, who would ever want to leave the damn thing?

<comment><USER53> They said the same thing about the TV

<comment><USER54> And I guess they were, to a disturbing degree, right?

<comment><USER55> And many who escaped TV have been scooped up by the net.

<comment><USER52> Good point. I knew a guy once who all but flunked out of college because of an IRC addiction. He'd spend all his time in the lab, IRC'ing and not much more. Weird.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER56> hrm.. interesting.. nothing in there in music, games and online video.. i personally think that there will be alotta innovation in these fields because of copyright issues.

</comment><comment><USER57> 25\. Uber for food

We're working on that right now at munchery.com

<comment><USER58> There's also HouseBites in the UK.

<comment><USER59> Also Deliverance.

<comment><USER22> Is their slogan "Squeal if you'd like a porkchop"?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER60> Etsy for IP = <http://www.ibridgenetwork.org/>

</comment><comment><USER61> "1. Build a bitcoin bank the works"

<https://www.strongcoin.com>

<comment><USER62> "No really, this time for sure!"

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> _11\. Build an Etsy for Intellectual property_

Sounds really intriguing. What would it look like?

</comment><comment><USER63> Anyone know what a "google voice" for credit cards is meant to mean?

<comment><USER59> A proxy card that is actually backed by various real credit cards. Automatically switching your balance across the optimum set of deals? This is kind of like what Simple.com do, except with credit.

<comment><USER63> That sounds pretty much like what most mobile wallet look like they're going to offer, and I can't really imagine how it would work (or what the real advantage would be) for non-mobile ones - such as the hassle of deciding in advance which card you're using for which transaction.

BTW, from what I've read of Bank Simple, this isn't what their model is. From their FAQ - "Can I use Simple with my current bank? No. Through your relationship with Simple, your money is held in an FDIC-insured account at one of our bank partners."

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER64> Yes! Several of these ideas I do hope the start-up community can grab a hold of and make into successful businesses. Like Elon Musk, I hope to eventually change the world, and several of these ideas will do just that. That's for compiling them.

</comment><comment><USER3> Why is Stripe for ACH payments necessary? Why isn't that Stripe?

<comment><USER9> As far as I know Stripe does _not_ do ACH? We've actually been looking _all_ over the place for an ACH processor with an API (aka a Stripe for ACH) and have had absolutely no luck. And the one company we found, for some reason, wouldn't take us on as a client (I guess we're considered high-risk). Anyway, I wholeheartedly agree with the need for an "Stripe for ACH". If you actually know of one _please_ let me know.

<comment><USER65> Steven – are you posting debit or credit txns? If crediting, would PayPal mass payments work for you?

<comment><USER9> Crediting. As far as I know PayPal Mass Payments requires the recipient to have a PayPal account (in fact, we _do_ use Mass Payments for customers who choose to be paid by PayPal). Crediting via ACH, on the other hand, merely requires routing and bank account numbers - which is something everyone has! The whole point, which neither PayPal nor Dwolla solve, is to use the _existing_ financial network, not create a _new_ means of money exchange.

<comment><USER65> I'm interested in chatting in more detail with you about this. Would you drop me an email if you would like to discuss further? My contact details are in my profile.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER66> How can ultrasonic transducers be used to make a holodeck?

</comment><comment><USER67> Trying to work in the second idea at classfrog.com

</comment><comment><USER68> I would pay for #16 right now.

</comment><comment><USER69> Maybe add "do blog page a that don't break on phones", hint, removing JS or CSS tricks should be enough.

</comment><comment><USER70> 26\. Get a cookie and do science to it.

</comment><comment><USER71> _NOTE: the following is a joke. or is it. Read to the end and decide for yourself._

As a VC, I would never fund any of these. How about these twenty-five ideas for starters.

1\. Combine local and real-time. (Google isn't)

2\. Combine the cloud with viral marketing (Amazon isn't)

3\. Disrupt green with crowd-sourcing. (Power companies aren't).

4\. Curate blogging (the "blogosphere" is so wide it becomes meaningless. Get the stratosphere of the blogosphere).

5\. post-pc disruption. (Fingerpaint for iPhone - 1 guy, VC-ready company. needed a mac to develop. give an Indian with no mac, no pc, nothing BUT an iPhone enough tools to disrupt post-pc)

6\. scale photos. Flickr doesn't.

7\. the Google of Facebook. (G+ is the Facebook of Google. Where's the Google of facebook?)

8\. empower html5. (Where's the Adobe of HTML 5?)

9\. the skype of documents. (Google Docs isn't it)

10\. the apple of automobiles. ("iPod integration"? Give me a 'brake').

11\. bring the cloud to ultramobiles. ("ultrabooks" are a joke, and the cloud is too big. Find a way to make ultrabooks/macbook airs the macs of iOS)

12\. the reddit of shopping. (eBay is not it).

13\. disrupt ad platforms, virally. People are sick of signing in and getting information collected (Google starting to suck)

14\. one word: Firefox. (Firefox isn't it).

15\. one word: Office. (Office isn't it).

16\. one word: ultramobile. (MacBook isn't).

17\. one word: ultralite mobile. (iOS isn't it)

18\. one word: TechCrunch (TechCrunch isn't it)

19\. one word: Banking (Banking isn't it)

20\. one word: Trending (Analytics isn't it)

21\. one word: Microblogging (Twitter isn't it)

22\. one word: Dating (plenty-of-fish isn't)

23\. one word: Family disruption, aka Whores. (craigslist isn't)

24\. one word: disrupt paradigms. (YC isn't).

25\. one word: cloud. (the cloud isn't.)

what is this, some kind of a joke? Can you even tell anymore. Disrupt this.

<comment><USER72> #10 is tesla

</comment></comment><comment><USER73> No mention of artificial intelligence.

Build an objection detection system for all 100,000 objects a human can recognize.

Build a photo-realistic face generator.

Build a chatbot than can pass the turing test.

</comment><comment><USER74> Please don't build a self-building satellite! The thing will expand until it hides the sun from us!

There are already plenty of biology databases, it's just that people don't know yet what to make out of that data.

 _Build an Etsy for Intellectual property_

They stole my idea! I think it's good time to build that

</comment><comment><USER75> Biological this, biological that.

How about ideas for those of us who aren't scientists?</comment>


'Delete Facebook now': WhatsApp co-founder gives a talk at Stanford - <AUTHOR> https://www.sfgate.com/technology/article/Delete-Facebook-now-What-s-App-co-founder-13691107.php <comment><USER2> > 'It was not extraordinarily money-making, and if you have a billion users > ... you're going to have $1 billion in revenue per year," he said. "That's > not what Google and Facebook want. They want multibillions of dollars."

> Acton said they pushed for a model that would charge users $1 a year instead > of using an advertising model for profit.

So first he sells out his company because he is not happy being rich, he wants to be filthy rich. And now afterwards he is pretending like he actually cares about users and normal people, and is calling out someone else for being greedy.

<comment><USER3> He could have been filthy rich if he would have gone through the whole thing.

He walked out on the deal early leaving a huge amount of money on the table because he disagreed with the direction Facebook was taking with whatsapp.

<comment><USER2> > Acton told Forbes that he left over a dispute with Facebook regarding > monetization of WhatsApp, and voluntarily left $850 million in unvested > options on the table by leaving a few months before vesting was completed. > (Source: Wikipedia)

I am not even sure what this means but it does not change the fact that he co- founded whatsapp and he did sell it to Facebook in 2014 and it was very clear even back then that they had no good intentions. Also, he IS filthy rich even without these 850 million.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> That's rich. Hundreds of people have been hurt out killed because of misinformation spread by WhatsApp. Moreover, this guy was one of the reasons that it took so long for WhatsApp to do anything about it.

<comment><USER3> Why should a messaging provider be responsible for the content of private messages users send each other?

Can you elaborate on what event you are referring to that required corporate intervention?

<comment><USER4> In India, South Africa, Egypt, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, and Thailand, there have been multiple instances of lynch mobs killing innocent men accused of organ harvesting or kidnapping via messages forwarded through WhatsApp. WhatsApp was used to organize religious mobs in India resulting in the deaths of dozens. WhatsApp is currently being used by the BJP in India to organize criminal campaigns of harassment against non-Hindus, cattle farmers, and even simply those who criticize or politically oppose the BJP.

After roughly a dozen men were killed in lynch mobs, Facebook was pressured into making changes to WhatsApp, including limiting how many times a message could be forwarded, and to who. Facebook also forced WhatsApp to add a unique identifier to messages so that chains could be traced to their source, so that future instigators of mob violence could be prosecuted. The WhatsApp founder disagreed with these changes and promptly began badmouthing Facebook. But almost immediately after those changes were implemented, the lynch mobs stopped.

Note that it's pretty easy to get around the unique identifier. WhatsApp is tied to a phone number, so criminal and political organizations can just buy burner sims for use with WhatsApp. But it does make a huge difference out in the countryside, where most people can barely afford a single sim card, let alone a burner to use for trolling.</comment></comment></comment>


Ray tracing in Excel - <AUTHOR> https://www.pcgamer.com/the-latest-thing-to-support-ray-tracing-is-excel-apparently/ <comment><USER2> I really really hate websites that hijack my back button. Come on pc-gamer, do you really think that making me click two extra times on the back button to return where I came from is going to make me spend more time on your site?

Crazy excel project though, well done.

</comment><comment><USER3> I feel I should link a function mode excel ray tracer a friend wrote in 2004.

[https://github.com/simon-frankau/excel-ray-tracer](https://github.com/simon- frankau/excel-ray-tracer)

</comment><comment><USER4> Should probably change the URL to [https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/ctf9f7/raytracing_...](https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/ctf9f7/raytracing_in_excel_incl_excel_model_link_and/)

<comment><USER5> I added that to my list of ray tracing links:

[https://github.com/melling/ComputerGraphics/blob/master/ray_...](https://github.com/melling/ComputerGraphics/blob/master/ray_tracing.md)

<comment><USER6> I have a couple of contributions to your list: [https://gabrielgambetta.com/tiny- raytracer.html](https://gabrielgambetta.com/tiny-raytracer.html) and [https://gabrielgambetta.com/computer-graphics-from- scratch/r...](https://gabrielgambetta.com/computer-graphics-from- scratch/raytracing.html)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I feel like nobody understands what Turing completeness really means anymore, i.e. why this is kinda amusing but also not really remarkable.

Back in the day people did ray tracing by hand on calculators, in PostScript (yes, the document description language used by printers), ... ray tracing is really simple, a basic exercise in vector maths, so we should expect to see it everywhere.

</comment><comment><USER8> Very impressive, I wonder what PC spec is needed to crunch that much data in excel?

</comment><comment><USER9> The question is, why do this?

Is it for fun? If so, great. Not my cup of tea personally, but I can imagine how it could be someone's.

If not for fun, what is the point? It presumably isn't to create a usable ray- tracing system. Perhaps a challenge to improve the author's Excel skills? If so, I suggest they move on to a proper programming language and visualisation system.

There seems to be this obsession, among some people, with using Excel for all sorts of inappropriate things, and I have a sinking feeling that this might be related to that. A system for generating contracts using Excel formulas, in Excel, instead of using mail merge, or something else, with Word or something else designed to format prose text, is a horrible example I have come across at work.

<comment><USER10> I see what the author is doing as part of the demoscene. Many people enjoy programming in limited environments, learning how to optimize, and pushing it to the limit. No one is actually going to use this in a product; its just art.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demoscene](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demoscene)

<comment><USER7> Not all constrained programming is demoscene related; IMO demoscene is chiefly a social phenomenon, about competition at gatherings.

<comment><USER11> Perhaps that's what it's about today, but when it actually started back in the days of the C64 and 300 baud modems it was about pushing the tech to its limits just to see what it could do. Generally the only people who would actually see it would be people who downloaded a pirated game and had the demo play before the game started.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> What a trip.

I've never done anything that visually elaborate. But I have created data visualizations, using conditionally colored cells in large arrays.</comment>


Electrical Engineering start-ups? - <AUTHOR>

I was wondering if there are any start-ups in the electrical engineering space, whatever that may be. I know HN is oriented towards web start-ups, so I was curious to see what else is out there in my current field of study/interest.
For those that would consider themselves in this space, what's it like? Is there less competition, more? Is getting funded harder? How has building your company differed from typical web start-ups you know of? Any pointers for fresh grads looking to get involved without much experience?
Cheers. <comment><USER2> From what I know, there is an accelerator type program that just recently launched for hardware base startups here in the bay area. I know YC also funded some (at least 1) as well. You can also look into companies like FitBit as an example. It's difficult to say what is defined as an EE startup since some also include programming and the web. I guess it depends loosely on what your definition is.</comment>


Ask HN: Pros/Cons of a remote-based team over setting up in Silicon Valley? - <AUTHOR>

An obvious benefit is that you can avoid the ridiculously expensive cost of living in the valley and set up in one of these nice places instead: https://nomadlist.com/ . You can also benefit from a larger talent pool and provide a nice perk for your future employees.
On the other hand I cannot see how team communication/ productivity wouldn't be impacted. Buffer has done it in a nice way but can it be scaled/replicated for any startup?
What do you think? Would you like to setup your team remotely? Already made the step? <comment><USER2> I don't think you need to be in Silicon Valley (and in general would argue against being there most of the time), but at the same time an early stage company where the team is remote is not a good idea IMO.

There are a lot of issues with it, but primarily you need to figure out how to work together, figure out product/company direction, pivot and make quick decisions and overall not screw up too much. So starting out where everyone is remote is a huge burden to add to an already really tough situation. I think even if you look at the successful companies that have a significant number of workers remote, you'll find that when the core team started they had a majority of people in the same location or very close. And you'll still find that a number of the people are in a given area or get together very regularly in person (which has a cost to it).

If you are an already established team with multiple prior successful remote projects, then that might make your chances of success go up some. But the likelihood of being successful still, in my opinion, goes down many times over when core members are not near each other regularly.

I can hear the people saying oh it worked for us blah blah. I am sure you can find cases where it has worked. I am sure I can find cases where it was a massive failure. Neither of those matters as much as the overall statistics and your gut feeling on whether it will work. Just remember, everyone will have to be willing to work extra hours just because they are remote, those extra hours will be spent mostly in communication and clarifications and working across time zones.

Don't get me wrong, I think remote work is awesome and is super successful when implemented properly. But for a small company just starting out or small team barely off the ground I just think the burden is too high to make it successful fast enough.

</comment><comment><USER3> I've worked with lots of great companies, both on-site and remotely, and I can that in my experience proximity is only directly correlated with productivity at the earliest stages. Once everyone understands their piece of the puzzle, sharing a physical space hasn't been important. Remote teams work best when everyone is actually dedicated to the same cause and working toward a common goal, however the same could be said of any team.

I've built three successful teams remotely and I wouldn't trade any of them for one in a shared space. Use Slack for real-time, text-based communication, Google Hangouts for face-to-face chats, ScreenHero for remote desktop sharing (e.g. for pair programming or quick demos), Pivotal Tracker (or similar) for task tracking and weekly check-ins with every employee. If someone seems to be dropping the ball or losing focus, bring it to their attention and ask what's going on.

TL;DR: Communication is key. Not everyone's suited to remote work, but neither is everyone suited to sharing space. With the right tools in place and a dedicated team, you're all set.

</comment><comment><USER4> If you can do remote well the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. I have built and worked in / with remote teams (primarily US based) for 5 years in that time I have found the primary killer of productivity is isolation. A lot of developers are introverts and if allowed they will work alone with little collaboration.

We do a few things to help solve that issue, first and foremost we use tools. We use a collaboration platform called Sococo, to be honest I hated it at first it's kind of hokey with a virtual office map and rooms and everything, but it does a few things right the first of which is it makes it very easy to se voice communication, there is no dialing or ringing like a phone, you just pop into someones office and click the mic button. People can lock their office to avoid the popping in but the point is, it seems to jump the psychological barrier of making a phone call and emulates more naturally the "hey I just popped in for a quick chat".

The next one that we do, is we try to hire developers in common locations. While we will hire the best developers available in the market we do try to lean on our developers to build our network and hire in their locations. If we hit a critical mass of developers in a location we let them find a space they agree on and incentives them to move to an office culture in that area. So satellite locations grow organically and tend to follow the ebb and flow of market strengths.

Remote development has been proven, and if done right it works well. Personally I don't understand decisions like the one Yahoo made a while back as it seems short sighted to me to limit the market you can draw from for talent. Especially in a market that is so under staffed with truly talented people.

My contact info is in my profile if you want to chat about it, I have done remote for a long time. I can get you down the right path if you decide it is the route for you.

</comment><comment><USER5> If you make good use of Slack or video chat, there's very little impact on communication or productivity. There's actually a lot of research showing that productivity is much better when people have privacy and quiet (the opposite of an "open office").

However, the rapport and happiness of your team might suffer if they all work remotely. It's not a good lifestyle for everyone.

Also, keep in mind that there are many large cities with a very reasonable cost of living. You can have an office (with the option to work remotely) in one such city. Houston, Atlanta, and Nashville come to mind, but I'm not an expert.

The idea that it's "Silicon Valley or bust" is totally ridiculous unless you're planning to launch a B2C product that requires lots of runway and, therefore, investment.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for your input. Valuable points. And we are in fact, launching a B2C product :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> If you are a startup, working remotely is not a good option. It is even worse, if your co-founder is working remotely. Startup is not just about getting things done faster. It is about validating if your direction is right. To do that, you need your team with you for brainstorming and moral support.

If you want to save cost, you should move to the remote location where your team is, after raising some money in the valley.

<comment><USER7> Proof? There are several YC teams that are fully remote without issue.

<comment><USER6> I have experienced this problem first hand. AFAIK, YC does not recommend co- founders working remotely.

<comment><USER7> I work for a YC company that is 100% remote. Works very well.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Turkey is sliding into dictatorship - <AUTHOR> http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21720590-recep-tayyip-erdogan-carrying-out-harshest-crackdown-decades-west-must-not-abandon <comment><USER2> I've read the Economist for a long time, and they should be ashamed of themselves for not calling out how wrong they were when Erdogan was first elected.

Their line was that the AK's "moderate Islamism" would be good for democracy long-term, and anyone who was afraid of political Islam was regressive.

Yeah, sometimes editors and opinion pieces are wrong. But admit it when you are -- I haven't seen the Economist staff learn anything from this sad episode.

<comment><USER3> Back when he was first elected in 2004, Erdogan was not the huge asshole that he is today. His party actually conducted a lot of useful reforms that were beneficial for the country.

Over time though he slid into authoritarianism, and started jailing or exiling people who disagreed with him. Some people believe this was him showing his true colors, while others think it's a combination of his narcissism and severe paranoia getting the better of him.

Don't get me wrong: Turkey was never the pinnacle of freedom and the fair treatment of minorities. But, for people who care about liberal democracy and the separation of religion and state, things are inarguably in a much worse shape today than they were a decade ago.

<comment><USER4> > Back when he was first elected in 2004, Erdogan was not the huge asshole > that he is today. His party actually conducted a lot of useful reforms that > were beneficial for the country. / Over time though he slid into > authoritarianism

That is the standard practice of authoritarians. Rarely do they announce before being elected, 'if you elect me, I'm going to do away with democracy and become a dictator'. First they get elected, then consolidate power (including by governing in a way that builds political support), and then they seize power.

The fact that he behaved in the way the parent describes doesn't mean he didn't plan to seize power as an authoritarian dictator (and it doesn't mean that he did). If the future authoritarians were easily identified ahead of time, they wouldn't have much chance of advancing their plans.

<comment><USER5> Because they're not easily identified no one should feel like they have to apologise for not guessing their nature.

<comment><USER6> If the same thing (god forbid) should happen with Trump, it will be pretty hard to claim that he wasn't showing authoritarian colors in his 2016 campaign. He definitely was.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> The only thing about this which surprises me is how Erdogan seemed to really want Turkey to become a member of the EU, and yet has been actively doing everything he can to make that impossible.

Then again, he tends to say and do a lot of odd things, so I guess the simple answer is to not assume any kind of competence or rational thinking from political leaders.

<comment><USER8> Erdogan used EU to get rid of the military check on Islamist trying to dismantle democracy. Eu is stupid. Every modern Turk warned them and no one listened. No the EU will reap what its sown.

<comment><USER9> > Erdogan used EU to get rid of the military check

How did the EU do that?

<comment><USER10> > How did the EU do that?

 _"Since 1999, civilian control of the military has been strengthened. The constitutional and legal framework has been amended to clarify the position of the armed forces versus the civilian authorities," the European Union said in its 2004 Progress Report on Turkey, which cited various developments with regard to civil-military ties. "A number of changes have been introduced over the last year to strengthen civilian control of the military with a view to aligning it with practice in EU member states."_

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil%E2%80%93military_relatio...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil%E2%80%93military_relations_during_the_Recep_Tayyip_Erdo%C4%9Fan_government)

It is kind of funny that EU being so afraid of the military occasionally taking control of the civil government, EU paved way for the much more sinister threat of a transition to dictatorship. Very shortsighted.

Europeans like to blame America for meddling with foreign countries without any understanding of the consequences, but here EU did exactly the same.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> This is even more reason to contribute to activists trying to stop the conversion of Hagia Sophia into a Mosque. It is a piece of 6th century history that we as a civilization just cannot afford to lose.

<comment><USER12> Yes, definitely a good reason to re-litigate historical events from 1451.

<comment><USER11> Considering the Greeks were not liberated from the Ottoman yoke until 1829, with genocides and killings from "modern" Turkey not stopping until the early 1910's, I'd say it's not exactly ancient history, either.

To put it into context, "Greek Independence Day" comes _after_ American Independence Day.

<comment><USER13> Turkification as a general policy continues to this day and probably will continue. I don't see how it 's related to Ayia Sofia though, when the temple was built people still called themselves roman.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> So saddening the amount of ignorance and hate I see here in HN regarding my country. I wish nothing about Turkey gets submitted again here so that I can continue to visit HN as a hackers' and tech entrepreneurs' forum.

You clearly don't know anything about our history. You don't even know who we are. You insult us with your superficial readings of superficial wikipedia articles. We don't need this at all.

We're having hard times, but I still have hope. After all, civilisation was invented here. I wish we were able to export the better parts too.

<comment><USER15> Complaining that others don't know as much as an expert (you) isn't going to help change anyone's perspective. Most people's perspective about most subjects is superficial. The same can be said for you: you know very little about most people in most countries.

If you want perspective changed, tell people what's wrong, or the real story, without hating on the people who could benefit from your expertise. Then your audience will know more. I think most people here would appreciate hearing your perspective (with much deeper knowledge of culture and history) on the current events.

<comment><USER14> I don't really hate anybody. I don't believe in nations at all, if this means something to you. If it was misjudgements to be refuted, I'd go for it, even though I'm kind-of short on time. But it's mostly prejudice and hate-for-the- sake-of-it. I know that's rowing againt the flow, it's tiresome and gets you nowhere. (Edit: my actual point is that while I do know that there are many here that would actually appreciate my insights, as I'm a rather neutral and realist insider, knowing what the bulk of the responses I'll receive in return of such effort will be like, I just can't convince me to do that. Maybe I'm not modest enough to try and explain the reality in the face of belittling dismissals and ostinated misunderstandings.)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16>
      The West must not abandon Turkey

Huh? So are we supposed to meddle in other countries' politics and government? Or are we not?

<comment><USER17> Aren't we already doing this? Or are you being sarcastic?

<comment><USER16> My point was we get so much flak for doing this.

But then sometimes we're "supposed" to do it? Which is it?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> The problem is the vote has likely already been counted and any voting is just for an aura of legitimacy.

<comment><USER14> We take votes very serious here and there are multiple NGOs that are on top of things all around the country. I've once worked with CHP on an election day at a local office and can say that it's nearly impossible to do tricks in any elections.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> All you need for constitutional reform is a 50% majority on a referendum. That seems way too easy.

<comment><USER20> A timely warning to the US, too - as more and more Senate votes are being decided by 50% majority rather than their traditional 2/3 (EDIT: sorry, 3/5). That both parties indulge in it should be worrying to everyone.

<comment><USER21> With Senate, the simple 50% majority is by design. That's consistent with most other bicameral parliaments out there, which also vote on a simple majority basis. Since the issues they can vote on are restricted by the Constitution, it's not really a big deal. The big deal is amending the Constitution itself, which is extremely difficult (if anything, probably more difficult than it should be).

<comment><USER4> > Since the issues they can vote on are restricted by the Constitution, it's > not really a big deal.

I don't agree. The U.S. Senate is very powerful; those restrictions aren't very broad.

> the simple 50% majority is by design

It depends what you mean. The filibuster, which requires 60% majority, has been part of the Senate since around the 1840s; clearly many generations of Senators thought it was important and intended that it continue.

<comment><USER21> The filibuster was always removable by a simple majority, though, so it was a self-applied restriction, not an external one. Which limited its efficiency greatly - anyone relying on filibuster knew that if they pushed too hard, it would go away.

<comment><USER4> > The filibuster was ...

It is ... it's still there, just not for confirmations of appointments by the executive branch.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Sliding? More like rushing full throttle. Ataturk would be disgusted.

<comment><USER23> What makes reddit and now HN think Ataturk was some sort of beacon of democracy?

> In January 1920, Mustafa Kemal advanced his troops into Marash where the > Battle of Marash ensued against the French Armenian Legion. The battle > resulted in a Turkish victory alongside the massacres of 5,000–12,000 > Armenians spelling the end of the remaining Armenian population in the > region.

He finished off the Cilician Armenians from Anatolia, whoever was left under French protection and had escaped the Genocide.

<comment><USER8> It was war not genocide

<comment><USER24> It was a pure genocide!

<comment><USER8> also THE ARMENIAN ALLEGATİONS AND FACTS

<comment><USER25> Which funnily enough returns this as the first result [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide_denial](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide_denial)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> Yeah, Turkey is sliding into dictatorship but Egypt is doing very well.

[http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21709955-belatedly- and...](http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21709955-belatedly-and-under- pressure-abdel-fattah-al-sisi-has-done-some-hard-necessary-things-two)

[http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and- africa/2170997...](http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and- africa/21709971-abdel-fattah-al-sisis-reforms-will-make-him-unpopular-can-he- stand-it-sense-and)

Erdogan was "moderate" when "Western Democracies" was able to call a coup a coup and Syria wasn't a testing bed for weapons.

It looks they need a smokescreen for the blunder in Europe, Syria and ME in general and with his figure Erdo-guy is the best candidate. Oh "The Sultan", "The Barbar Turk is at the gates", "figthing with the poor Kurds", "journalist jailer", "coup was a theater" etc.

Did you really learn anything from the article about what changes in the constitution and what doesn't? According to the narrative Turkey was a "dictatorship" a year ago too, is a close "Yes" (or "No") in a referendum a typical political behavior of dictatorial politics, right?

Sorry. When the West reacts like this (and doesn't react to real dictators unless they piss to their lawn), it more and more looks like Western intellectual's main mission is to create a narrative to open a path for exploitation/military politics. God may have died but "Deus Vult" still lives.

</comment><comment><USER27> Now I wonder, what will the NATO do when Turkey becomes a dictatorship.

<comment><USER28> Almost certainly nothing. NATO has had plenty of dictatorships as members, including Turkey during its various military takeovers.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> sliding?

</comment><comment><USER30> This website is disgusting. I have to close four dialog boxes and the content takes is ~30% of my screen. I expected better from the economist.

<comment><USER13> "Let's make everything fixed, it will look SO good on small displays"</comment></comment>


On Business Guys - <AUTHOR> http://rdegges.com/on-business-guys

<comment><USER2> Immature article but its an interesting topic.

As an engineer, it took me a long time to figure out that the same skills I apply to learning hard tech topics, could be used to learn about the business world.

The barriers I encountered (and my solutions to date) include:

\- Business topics seem too boring! I think thats why I studied engineering instead. Solution: think about the money you can make by getting through them, it can genuinely make it more interesting.

\- Many "business" people dont seem very smart (using my engineering metric), and so are a pain to deal with. Solution: Get over myself, stay humble. Read "People Skills".

\- Many business books are so fluffy, and could be summarized in a couple dense pages. Solution: Read summaries, stick to recommended classics.

\- Sometimes I was actually intimidated by important sounding business concepts I didnt understand. Solution: Talk to people, read, same as anything else.

\- A lot of "business" aspects seem repetitive. Possible solution: Automate where possible (but it still seems there is tons of things that are dreary but not automatable).

\- I dont know enough about business to evaluate "biz guys" skills. Solution: Talk to a lot of biz guys, get them to critique each other. Try to get beneath the bravado and big talk that often seems to be a biz guy trait. Learn more about their domain so you can see through it.

A lot of business is dealing with people. Some geeks dont really like people that much (maybe those weak people skills again!), so "biz guys" let them focus on tech. But the geeks really lose out that way.

Wish I knew all this 12 years ago.

</comment><comment><USER3> tl;dr i'm a technical guy and what i do is the hardest thing there is so what you do is easy and hence not needed.

oh please. bus dev is hard. making sales is hard. figuring out why your cool technical hack is pointless and will make no money is hard. convincing your brilliant co-founder that a simple trivial feature is going to bring a smile to your customer's face is hard. bringing different _expert_ skillsets together so they complement each other is hard.

there are bad biz guys out there just the same as there are flub coders. note: i'm not justifying the 'i need a hacker' submissions - that's probably just an indicator that you're not dealing with the top 1%

<comment><AUTHOR> There are definitely lots of difficult things other than technical challenges that come up in business. Like you said: making sales, deciding which features to build, etc. I'm not saying that they are "easy", however they pale in comparison to spending years building technical skillskets that allow you to build solutions to problems.

The main point I'm trying to make in the article is that "business guys", particularly the sort looking for technical co-founders, really need to teach themselves technical skills. In early stage companies (I probably should have made this more clean in my article), the business guys just aren't necessary. Any engineer can talk with his potential customers and get feedback. Any decent engineer can run A/B tests and improve their conversion rate. Any good engineer can make smart decisions based on their customer data and feedback, and become successful.

If you're a "business guy" and teach yourself technical skills, you're immediately more valuable. You can prototype basic features and get feedback. You have the technical understanding of your product to make informed customer decisions. You'll have the ability to spot problems early on, and make adjustments as needed to your product. Even if you're not necessarily a "good" programmer, you can still have much more of an impact with technical skills.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> nicely demonstrates why some 'tech guys' are desperately in need of a good 'biz guy' (or gal!) if only to round out the edges of their horrendously overblown egos.</comment>


Ask HN: How to Spoof Git Commits? - <AUTHOR> I have a project from a client as an individual freelancer. They require the repository to be on their team account.<p>However, I'd like my brother to help with the project with daily commits. How can he spoof his commits so it looks like I'm pushing everyday, not him. <comment><USER2> Git config email/name, depends on if they are looking at IP addresses though, you might need a proxy. Also how commits time and code style could be give aways.

Git is distributed, so your brother can push to your headless repo which you the pull from and push back to theirs from your working copy.</comment>


Machine Learning Often a Complicated Way of Replicating Simple Forecasting - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@mikeharrisNY/machine-learning-often-a-complicated-way-of-replicating-simple-forecasting-methods-in-financial-25c38db2f624 <comment><USER2> Yes, in a toy space ML replicates simplistic measures, there's only so much information to be had in such a space to start with. The power of these techniques is when we apply them to high-complexity or even unbounded- complexity areas.

<comment><USER3> And that you apply them to domains where the knowledge of the domain is basic -at best. It enables people who know one subject well -machine learning- to do speech recognition and weather forecasting well.

Plus this article has a number of problems. It compares machine learning to MA(3). That it works pretty well totally ignores the selection of MA(3) vs MA(5). MA(100) is "common" indicator often talked up (why I do not know, except perhaps it protects you from really big errors, but other than that it's not very helpful).

If you actually try to use the prediction of MA(3) you will find it is often very hard to use, because it's always just too late. I wonder if the machine learning version had the same problem, or not.

<comment><USER4> >If you actually try to use the prediction of MA(3) you will find it is often very hard to use, because it's always just too late. I wonder if the machine learning version had the same problem, or not.

Why does the sensitivity matter when we know that the accuracy was so similar? The point on sensitivity does make me wonder how an exponential moving average would've performed though.

<comment><USER3> Because there are "chaotic cases" in statistics. Cases where there are so many possible patterns that stating which pattern the data follows doesn't have any less information than the data itself (or only has a little less information than the data itself). Financial market data is quite notorious for being one such case (if not there wouldn't be any poor mathematicians).

So MA(3) is not a general indicator. It's not universally useful, and it isn't the only one this article considers. It was chosen from a great many possible indicators (go to tradingview.com, find a graph, expand the indicators tab, and look at the list. And keep in mind that ALL MA's are just one entry). So there's tens of thousands of indicators that MA(3) was chosen from. So the predictive value of MA(3) as an indicator in the general case is really only 1/10000th of what this person claims it to be (actually infinitely less, but let's assume you use, say, MA(200) as the limit of what you're willing to consider, which makes it a finite number).

Predictive information is this: let's say I tell you I know what the outcome is of a football match. And at the end of the match, I pull the outcome out of a stack of papers. The size of that stack of papers is inversely related to how informative my prediction was. If I just put down one paper before the match, that's great. If I put down 1000. Not so great. For this guy, the stack of papers was pretty thick.

So the article is saying "I can, out of a great many indicators, find one that performs similar to this machine learning algorithm". Unless the article also gives a clear and definitive reasoning for why THAT indicator was chosen for that dataset, it doesn't contain much information at all.

<comment><USER4> You're presenting this from the perspective of the author's selection of MA(3), but I think what you're really getting at is yes, MA(3) happened to be comparable to the ML model in this case, but the beauty of the ML model was that it _knew_ to nearly replicate MA(3) out of a great many common indicators. Is that essentially what you're saying? If so, I'm curious how things like longer period moving averages or an exponential moving average perform relative to both MA(3) and the ML model in this case.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Why are so many people reading this as an attack on ML? The author is simply reminding people that ML isn't a universal remedy for uncertainty. "Stop writing ML models solely for the sake of writing ML models" is a very different message than "ML didn't improve upon MA(3) in this case so it's universally worthless".

</comment><comment><USER5> I understand that the general sentiment for this article seems to be dismissive but I want to share this awesome University of Vermont lecture series/course. It's related to forecasting mathematics and includes an introduction to fractal geometry which I haven't seen much of elsewhere.

[https://youtu.be/Lr3qrB6dPCM](https://youtu.be/Lr3qrB6dPCM)

</comment><comment><USER6> Pretty banal article. TLDR: A very complicated model will fit simple data, as will a simple model. Modern ML/AI has nothing to do with 1D timeseries forecasting.

<comment><USER7> Was about to write the same thing.

What the heck is this doing on the front page?

<comment><AUTHOR> There have been thousands of papers and many books written on the subject of using machine learning for time series forecasting and an unknown amount of money traded/invested with it. Most of them cast trading as a time series forecasting problem where performance is measured by mean square error. They usually then assume that would lead to profitable trading.

You don't get to define what "modern machine learning" is any more than I do.

The application of complex models to higher-dimensional domains have problems of their own. Both the successes and failures are worth writing and thinking about.

The post is an important reminder about simplicity and complexity in modeling. That's why I submitted it.

<comment><USER6> I don't understand why I'm being downvoted for this opinion -- the topic of overfitting gets beaten to death by the 3rd week of every intro AI/statistics/ML class out there. I didn't find it very worthy of the frontpage (or a blog post).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> But the power comes when the model doesn't overfit and can predict way more than your simple models

</comment><comment><USER9> "Is advanced machine learning a very complicated way of reproducing the results of trivial forecasting methods? In many cases it appears this is the case."

If by "many cases" you mean "the one example I looked at which was carried out by an undergrad" than sure. That sort of phrasing really gives away the author's bias.

<comment><USER4> The author isn't arguing that ML isn't useful, they're simply pointing out that it isn't worthwhile for all problems and data sets.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: What are you reading? - <AUTHOR> What book, article, paper, etc. are you reading right now?
I just finished Ben Rhodes' book The World As It Is, about his eight years in the Obama administration as the U.S. Deputy National Security Advisor for Strategic Communications. I have always found the scale of a U.S. president's duties pretty awe-inspiring so I found the book fascinating. If you share that interest, I would also recommend Days of Fire about the Bush administration.
I've also recently finished up Into the Black, the true story of Space Shuttle Columbia's first mission, and the coming together of the shuttle program as a whole. It was filled with interesting details, though I did feel like it jumped around a bit. <comment><USER2> I'm a huge sci-fi geek. I've recently been listening to The Expanse series. I'm on book 3. The narrator of all 3 thus far is fantastic - the subtle voice changes and accent put-ons and various other verbal techniques makes the experience far easier to follow and immerse yourself into. One of the best narrators for any audiobook I've heard.

<comment><USER3> Agreed. For another great sci-fi audiobook narrator, check out John Lee.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I'm reading a couple books at the moment.

Valley of Genius[1] is a history of silicon valley, but told via excerpts and quotes from influential members of the SV community. It's quite a fascinating book, and I highly recommend it. I'm in my early thirties, so this book really helps to provide context for when people say we're just rebuilding things that have been done before. Learning about what was going on at Xerox with Alan Kay is just incredible.

The other book I'm reading is the Selfish Gene[1], by Richard Dawkins. I've read this book 3-4 times already, so at this point I read it for almost philosophical reasons. It's a wonderful explanation of evolution and micro- biology. I'm sure there are more up-to-date texts, but Dawkins is a superb writer.

[1] Valley of Genius: The Uncensored History of Silicon Valley (As Told by the Hackers, Founders, and Freaks Who Made It Boom)

[2] The Selfish Gene, by Richard Dawkins

<comment><USER5> The best book about the ARPA/Parc research in the 60s and 70s is "The Dream Machine" by Mitchell Waldrop.

<comment><USER4> Thank you very much for the recommendation. I'll definitely give this a read.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Recently finished _The Visual Display of Quantitative Information_ by Edward Tufte and _How to Change Your Mind_ by Michael Pollan. I would have been embarrassed to have been caught reading the latter given the subject matter, despite how influential he's been on how I think about food, but it was a real insightful treat.

Currently reading _The Cooking Gene: A Journey Through African American Culinary History in the Old South_ and _Safe Area Goražde_ , a comic book about the Bosnian War.

Also reading Bertrand Russell's _The History of Western Philosophy_ in between books, but that's a book I'll never really finish.

</comment><comment><USER7> I just finished reading the death's end by Liu Cixin, the third part of the three body problem Trilogy. It was a great read and the last novel was absolutely riveting I am I was in awe of the author when I read the first one but after having completed the Trilogy I am I don't know what to say this guy as can you guys suggest me something like this I have read neal stephanson and I am looking forward reading more space fantasies that I still grounded in the present Times to a certain extent

</comment><comment><USER8> Harmony and Voice Leading, Aldwell and Schacter. Also, The Art of Saxophone Playing by Larry Teal. I think the typical thing for a guy my age is that they're supposed to go out and get like a sports car and/or a mistress, but I can't afford those things, so I got a saxophone instead. And . . . a banjo.

</comment><comment><USER9> Stormlight Archives by Brandon Sanderson

</comment><comment><USER10> I'm normally flipping between a few, due to trying to get better at technical work, management/people work, and personal tinkering.

The Score Takes Care of Itself

Building Evolutionary Architectures

Design It!

Managing Humans

Big Nerd Ranch Kotlin

</comment><comment><USER11> After just finishing my dessert, Jeri Westerson's latest Crispin Guest Mystery, I'm on to more serious matter in The Obstacle is the Way by Ryan Holiday.

</comment><comment><USER12> mathematics form and function by Mac Lane (sweeping coverage of all of math at about the undergrad math major level by one of the best mathematicians of the 20th) and the power broker by Caro (no clue really - Robert Moses was the most effective public works new York has ever had, brought down Tammany hall but also quite racist - came highly recommended in an r/NYC thread about him)

</comment><comment><USER13> I'm currently making my way through the federalist papers. I'm about 40% done.

</comment><comment><USER14> Right now I'm reading Pragmatic Thinking and Learning by Andy Hunt and Cryptonomicon.

</comment><comment><USER15> Current reading material

Dark Matt and Trojan Horses by Dan Hill

Interaction of Color by Josef Albers

Simplicity by Edward de Bono

</comment><comment><USER16> Just finished - Only the Paranoid Survive & Measure What Matters

<comment><AUTHOR> How did you like Measure What Matters?

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> At any given time I'm "reading" about 30 books, as in, I have read at least some portion of it, put a bookmark in it, and added it to my "currently reading" queue on Goodreads.

More pragmatically, at any given time there are usually 2-3 books that I'm actively making meaningful progress on and expect to finish in the next 1-30 days or so. Right now that set includes:

 _A Canticle for Liebowitz_ \- Walter M. Miller Jr.

 _Godel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid_ \- Douglas Hofstadter

 _Superintelligence: Paths, Dangers, Strategies_ \- Nick Bostrom

Beyond that, I'll just link to the aforementioned Goodreads profile. Feel free to friend me on there, I always enjoy following what other HN'ers are reading.

[https://www.goodreads.com/user/show/33942804-phillip- rhodes](https://www.goodreads.com/user/show/33942804-phillip-rhodes)

</comment><comment><USER18> \-- Http Definitive Guide

\-- NoSQL Distilled

</comment><comment><USER19> My life as a Quant

</comment><comment><USER20> Fire and Fury</comment>


YC 2019 Summer Batch Results - <AUTHOR> Post here if you receive an invite, to share updates or keep updated on the summer batch, leave your email to join the discussion on this slack link:<p>https://ycsum2019applicants.slack.com <comment><USER2> According to the link below, we should expect an email by 10PM PST (about 25 minutes from now). I remain optimistic that YC would at least let people know that their applications were rejected rather than just ghosting them.

[https://www.ycombinator.com/apply/](https://www.ycombinator.com/apply/)

edit - the deadline passed, no email. Assuming that's rejection. I highly encourage YC to at least send automated emails to applicants who were rejected in future cohorts so there's zero confusion for anyone.

<comment><AUTHOR> They might answer tomorrow be patient they answer every application

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I didn't receive the email but I got rejected. I know it because I see the sorry word in the interviews link.

<comment><USER2> I didn't get an email related to interviews at all, personally.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> rejection. solo, international technical founder. rant here: [https://twitter.com/mluggy/status/1118481093831876608](https://twitter.com/mluggy/status/1118481093831876608)

</comment><comment><USER5> Just received the email. We got rejected. firstname.lastname@example.com

</comment><comment><USER6> Received, it's a No, congratulations to all who got invited

</comment><comment><USER7> Got my email. Rejected. See you next time, YC :)

</comment><comment><USER8> Rejected. email@example.com for Slack

</comment><comment><USER9> Join Slack group to share your updates!

</comment><comment><USER10> Has anyone still not got the mail

</comment><comment><USER11> No email yet. firstname.lastname@example.com

</comment><comment><USER10> cleansewater when u went to the invitations website is it showing accepted or sorry?

</comment><comment><USER10> I didnt got the mail still

</comment><comment><USER12> We've got email.

<comment><USER7> Congratulations @cleansewater! How long ago have you received it? And by accepted you mean invited to the interview, right?

<comment><USER12> Right! We've received email just 10 mins ago. And there are lots of slots still remained when we choose time table for interviews. So it just started

<comment><USER7> Sounds promising! Thanks for sharing and congratulations again! Can you kindly share the email you received here? So we get a taste of what it looks like? :p

<comment><USER12> [https://medium.com/@chanfest22/how-to-ace-your-y- combinator-...](https://medium.com/@chanfest22/how-to-ace-your-y-combinator- interview-7aabbaafb5ae)

This blog isn't mine. But the email was exactly same.

<comment><USER13> Congrats! What is your startup about?

<comment><USER14> possibly about cleaning water

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Please send me email

</comment><comment><USER16> No email yet.

email@example.com

</comment><comment><USER17> email@example.com

</comment><comment><USER18> No email yet.

<comment><USER19> Do you think that means rejection? Also when I login to review my application the text of the word application is red. Does anyone else see this on their app?

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> email@example.com

</comment><comment><USER9> Group open

</comment><comment><USER13> firstname.lastname@example.com

</comment><comment><USER21> email@example.com</comment>


Microsoft now lets iOS developers deploy, run and test their apps on Windows - <AUTHOR> https://techcrunch.com/2017/05/11/microsoft-now-lets-ios-developers-deploy-run-and-test-their-apps-directly-from-windows <comment><USER2> "Microsoft tells us that it talked to Apple about this functionality and that it has its rival's blessing and that the Live Player application complies with all of Apple's usual rules."

Which is interesting, since I thought that interpreters were strictly against Apple rules?

<comment><USER3> Deployed apps are compiled to ARM assembly. Bit of info here:

[https://developer.xamarin.com/guides/cross- platform/applicat...](https://developer.xamarin.com/guides/cross- platform/application_fundamentals/building_cross_platform_applications/part_1_-_understanding_the_xamarin_mobile_platform/)

<comment><USER4> You got it, the relevant piece:

"OS – C# is ahead-of-time (AOT) compiled to ARM assembly language. The .NET framework is included, with unused classes being stripped out during linking to reduce the application size. Apple does not allow runtime code generation on iOS, so some language features are not available (see Xamarin.iOS Limitations )."

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Are there any examples of solid, stable, cross-platform apps developed with Xamarin? I tried looking at their website, but it doesn't seem possible to tell the difference between apps being tested using Xamarin Test Cloud, and apps developed using the Xamarin Platform.

<comment><USER6> I've worked on a number of Xamarin apps. You can definitely make stable cross platform apps, it's just very tedious; sometimes it requires more effort than developing 2 separate native apps.

<comment><USER7> re:more effort Did you have the freedom to recommend going native or was Xamarin a requirement or was it too late to switch?

<comment> UK-AL I would imagine xamarin is faster when you have a complicated domain.

<comment><USER8> I imagine it goes faster to make the domain complicated with Xamarin. Make of that what you will...

<comment> UK-AL You can't make a domain more complicated by technology choices.

You can make it more technically complicated.

<comment><USER9> Not sure I follow. Are you being pedantic about the definition of domain? (real question)

<comment> UK-AL A domain is the business area you are trying to fix problems in. This is the standard definition.

The technology you used can not make that harder or easier.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> It's cool to see xamarin growing after the microsoft acquisition. Replicating good existing features that other environments have (like exponent, etc) is a good sign that things are progressing.

Building apps with Xamarin however is still not a pleasant experience whether it be Native or Forms.

Although Microsoft has built some cool apps with forms (check the microsoft github and you can find them), it's still a pain to work with things visually. Odd bugs and restrictions that require dense workarounds occur if you deviate from the standard application uses (tables and forms). It makes sense it being a targeted API so I'll leave it at that.

Native was something I really wanted to like. I built 2 PoC apps that later got translated into swift/java and react-native respectively. Building your own libraries and widgets is fun, but not when you have a deadline. For non- visual libraries, it's awesome. I've worked with the .Net ecosystem for a while, and while the way libraries are written isn't my favorite (OverkillOOP sometimes), everything is consistent. Visual Libraries are rough. Quite a few I wanted to use were abandoned with no source code and just a link to download the nuget from the xamarin store. I could spend the time building the 10 custom widgets that the client REALLY wants (even though the app could work fine without it), or I could use native/RN UI libraries to wow the client giving them what they wanted and a little bit more in the same visual/design style.

To sum it up: it's more work to write a xamarin application when I'm more than capable of handling 2 similar languages (most app requirements are just applying known patterns and library gluing anyways) or using Exponent/ReactNative.

As a side note, I prefer F# and while the Xamarin team says they "like it", it is a pretty 2nd class system and definitely not something you want to use with a deadline.

<comment><USER9> Ive only dabbled in Xamarin briefly before, but I can imagine the numerous ways it could complicate things. If you have ever been deep into Windows Forms or the windows API in general, even native has its own unpleasant experiences, though I cant speak for Apple stuff.

We recently went the hybrid route using Cordova, and while it too had its share of shenanigans, I think it was much faster/better than separate apps.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> To be honest, that page about limitations in their docs is a huuuuuge let down

[https://developer.xamarin.com/guides/cross- platform/live/tro...](https://developer.xamarin.com/guides/cross- platform/live/troubleshooting/)

\- Android user interfaces designed with AXML files are not currently supported.

\- Some iOS storyboard features are not supported.

\- iOS XIB files are not supported.

Well, let's see how this evolves over time...

</comment><comment><USER12> So I take it you still need a mac with xcode to properly codesign and submit release versions of apps to the ios app store? I'm assuming the preview player ios app is just interpreting c# in debug mode? No way apple blessed microsoft's preview app with jit entitlements?

<comment><USER13> Yes you have to compile with a mac to deploy to itunes connect. No it compiles C# AOT to arm assembly code.

<comment><USER14> I don't think you are correct. For a proper release, yes, the C#/F#/VB is AOT compiled. For this "Live Player" app, the IL in the DLLs is interpreted. Basing this off of this:

"Microsoft believes its Live Player system is entirely compatible with Apple's rules and regulations for App Store apps. Behind the scenes, the Live Player includes an interpreter for .NET code. This means that running an app through Live Player is slower than it would be if natively built on a Mac, but that's not such a big deal for many aspects of user interface development."

[https://arstechnica.com/information- technology/2017/05/xamar...](https://arstechnica.com/information- technology/2017/05/xamarin-live-player-almost-takes-the-mac-out-of-ios- development/)

<comment><USER13> Look here [https://developer.xamarin.com/guides/cross- platform/applicat...](https://developer.xamarin.com/guides/cross- platform/application_fundamentals/building_cross_platform_applications/part_1_-_understanding_the_xamarin_mobile_platform/)

"iOS – C# is ahead-of-time (AOT) compiled to ARM assembly language. The .NET framework is included, with unused classes being stripped out during linking to reduce the application size. Apple does not allow runtime code generation on iOS, so some language features are not available"

<comment><USER12> Because apple does not allow runtime code generation, then obviously the Live Player preview app won't be able to make use of any ARM assembly language binary produced by .NET. The only way this Live Player preview app stands a chance of being approved by apple is by interpreting everything. Mapping memory executable is impossible for "mere mortals" on iOS, only a few specially-blessed first party apps like MobileSafari can do that (to support JIT javascript). And the whole reason for using the Live Player as a conduit is to avoid the need for a native mac xcode toolchain to package a real .ipa app.

The section you quoted is only applicable for native builds to .ipa (which you probably still need a mac for, since iOS requires the app to be code signed and provisioned even for debugging/development modes)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> more accurately: Microsoft now lets Xamarin developers deploy, run and test their iOS apps on Windows

<comment><USER16> Yeah, they left that part off didn't they? Xamarin != Native iOS.

<comment><USER17> How is Xamarin not native? It's compiled right, not some web view hybrid?

<comment><USER18> Yes, Xamarin produces a compiled executable, as you would get in Swift or Objective-C. It is not a web view hybrid.

I work for Microsoft

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> I have been working on a huge Xamarin app for weeks now and both Xamarin Studio and Visual Studio for Mac are horrendous. There are so many bugs and quirks in those things. Almost always when I think I found an issue with the underlying libraries (we use the native Android & iOS libs as well as Forms and a mix of both), it is an issue with either of the IDEs. I have a solid Macbook Pro and yet it comes to a halt and requires reboots after a bit. I even currently do parts with Vim and only compile/run with the IDE. I tried Rider but that's even worse. VS for Windows with this release might be worth a try. Did anyone try?

</comment><comment><USER20> Wow, for a second I thought I was looking at an old post since this functions almost identical to how repl.it[0] is working and they just posted their framework on here a few days ago.

[0][https://repl.it/site/react_native](https://repl.it/site/react_native)

</comment><comment><USER21> Anybody used this yet? This could end up be really helpful for me. I hate developing for android, but I collaborate with people that don't own macs enough that it ends up being my de facto OS for prototyping mobile crap.

<comment><USER18> Hey, PM at Microsoft here. I have used this often, and I find it to be perfectly suited for quick mockups and testing new ideas. However, it is still a preview, so there may be cases where live apps may fail on the device. Be sure to let us know, we are eager to improve this product!

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> Sorry, i am little bit confused, you don't need azure cloud or anything to run you ios app inside your visual studio when you developing it?

It iOS vm or it is just deploys to your IPhone from windows?

<comment><USER23> Deploys to a physical iOS device via QR code

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> I haven't used Xamarin yet but I'm really enjoying Ionic framework for multiplatform development with JavaScript.

</comment><comment><USER25> * written in C#.</comment>