The Economics of Seinfeld - <AUTHOR> http://yadayadayadaecon.com <comment><USER2> One of the creators here, happy to answer questions. This is a realllly old project, curious to know how it got submitted :)

<comment><AUTHOR> Submitter here, I found it via a blog I follow called Marginal Revolution.

<comment><USER2> Ahh, that makes sense. This project was a really interesting case study in how people move through the web. We had quite a bit of publicity for this early on, including some write-ups in print publications, major blogs, television, and radio shows (offline media generated virtually no apparent traffic). I also posted a link to r/economics when we first launched the site. Despite all that, one of the most enduring sources of traffic (other than university web sites, where professors post the link on Blackboard, etc.) has been Marginal Revolution, which is a relatively niche blog. I'm not really sure why.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> A colleague of mine put together this site on The Economics of the Office:

[http://economicsoftheoffice.com/](http://economicsoftheoffice.com/)

One of the creators of the Seinfeld site got his PhD in our department, so it influenced the Office site.

</comment><comment><USER4> This is a great idea! Well-executed too, from what I can tell after a few minutes of browsing around. I love Seinfeld and have studied some economics - the concepts are often very simple, but a lot of people seem to lack basic understanding of them. Hopefully this can bridge that gap for people who think economics is boring, theoretical, and generally nonsense (which, to be fair, is often true - but there are a lot of gems, as exemplified on this site).

<comment><USER5> Careful what you wish for. ;) My hope is that deeper understanding by more people on how society, economy etc. work has the potential actually make it fairer/better. However, it will get more and more difficult to find ways for an 'unfair advantage', which is certainly something many people are looking for when visiting websites such as HN.

<comment><USER4> That would make it more desirable to play non-zero sum games, which in my book is a good thing :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Sued to oblivion by NBC in 3.. 2.. 1..

<comment><USER2> Actually, we've been up for something like five years at this point. No lawsuits. Our contention is that it is fair use (clearly educational, in my mind). _knocks on wood_

<comment><USER7> To preface this: I think the site is neat, and you're not going to be sued, and you're on good ethical footing. But: Your specific fair use claim doesn't seem particularly compelling.

First, there's no plausible risk of trademark confusion, so we're only looking at copyright infringement. The list of Seinfeld episodes, and the facts about the plot of each one, are non-copyrightable, so AFAICT all we're talking about is a single 2-5 minute video clip per episode.

The clips are a very small part of the overall episode, and they're narrowly edited to provide only enough context to demonstrate the point, which speaks to fair use. The fact that there's an educational, noncommercial purpose also helps. On the other hand, it's a swath of material cut from across the entirety of the show, with zero other sources, which is pretty far-ranging and speaks against fair use.

If you imagine cutting the clips together into a YouTube video, and distributing that, you would have an extremely tenuous case. You'd be looking for some reason the use was necessary, not just convenient. So there's actually a lot riding on that educational purpose, and unfortunately that seems like the weakest part of the argument.

Here's the rub: The site isn't educating people _about Seinfeld._ It's about economics. While the clips make for compelling examples, no one could reasonably claim they're the only or best ways to make those points. In other words, it doesn't seem like there's any reason you need to use material from Seinfeld instead of almost any other piece of popular culture. That runs a big ol' hole through the educational purpose argument; fair use isn't structured to let you copy whatever you want to, and simply being a teacher doesn't give us license to infringe at will, alas. (Educational institutions have a substantially more circumspect understanding of fair use[0] than Reddit does, and for good reason.)

Keep in mind the educational exemption applies much more strongly to private performances than reproduction and distribution. I'd guess a university-level, semester-long course titled "The Economics of Seinfeld" where students watch a clip every class day would have a rock solid fair use case. But if the professor starts handing out DVDs, that starts to look like a place where the rights holder would want to draw a line in the sand.

Anyway, again, for my part I see no moral issue, and I didn't really intend to belabor the point this much, just reasoning through the logic of fair use. I assume you haven't been sued for more blasé reasons than your use being legally defensible, to wit the Web double whammy:

1) Your infinitesimal damages are far below the cost of even sending a C&D letter, and

2) Suing any fan site, let alone one for a cult classic that's still showing reruns after fifteen years off the air, is _clinically insane_.

[0] eg. [http://copyright.columbia.edu/copyright/fair- use/](http://copyright.columbia.edu/copyright/fair-use/)

<comment><USER8> Yes, as you say all educational uses are not "fair use" in USA (from my understanding of the USC as a non-expert non-USA'ian) - this is unlicensed derivative use of copyright works AFAICT. They're not even that derivative, the example I looked at seemed to be pretty much just an recut version of the show (without credits and such of course).

If someone ripped the site and added an extra line of comment to each page would the authors of that site consider it copying? The site is a very thin wrapper on the content IMO, like copying a book, cutting out the foreword and adding a new dust-jacket.

Trademarks: You don't need _actual_ confusion to be infringing a registered trademark in USA. Even when there is definitely no actual confusion you can still "infringe" a mark, cf Trademark Dilution, 15 USC 1125(c).

<comment><USER8> [If downvoters can cite USC to show any factual errors that would be helpful. If you just disagree that this use, eg feel this should be allowed use, it helps to say that too.]

<comment><USER7> I didn't (and can't) downvote you, but if I had to guess it's because your comment didn't add much content, but has a very negative tone. HN likes to see commenters being constructive, not just correcting. (And keep in mind that things you write on the internet generally read as more argumentative than you intend them.)</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: DropSubs – Download subtitles for video files - <AUTHOR> http://dropsubs.com <comment><USER2> Consider making English the default language choice since the rest of the website is already in English anyway. Cool site!

<comment><USER3> And also maybe allow for more than one language, or "Any". I have got an application error on the actual download page, so I'm not sure if that is already being offered there.

<comment><AUTHOR> I've tried to make it really simple to use, after the first setup you should only visit the page for one use, drag and drop. A really quick fix for trying with another language is opening the webapp in a incognito mode.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Please let me use it as well: Consider adding a "click here to select file" button starting a filepicker. Without a filemanager drag and drop is unuseable.

It would not only be helpful to support the 0,0…01% of people who will see this without having a file manager available, it will also help those users who pick you site as a starting point to not have to start an additional thing (like the explorer) to get to the video file.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Hi guys, author here, as far as I have tested it is working with Chrome and Firefox in desktop (where you can drag and drop) It really depends on if the subtitle is in the Open Subtitles API or not, it tries to search for the best suitable subtitle there. I've only tested with spanish and english languages but I am planning on improving the localization of the app.

Thanks for the feedback and glad some of you are finding use in it.

</comment><comment><USER5> Brillant way to honeypot and mark IPs for MPAA. Not implying that's the case, just considering the possibilities.

</comment><comment><USER6> Very nice! I think that there is a bug - I've tried to download subtitles for a movie, with Hebrew subtitles - and I've got to "Your subtitle is downloading" but nothing happens..

also, where do you get the subtitles?

BTW, if any of you are looking for a desktop based app, you can also check SubiT [http://subit-app.sourceforge.net/](http://subit-app.sourceforge.net/) or the source [https://github.com/subit/SubiT](https://github.com/subit/SubiT), It should work on windows, linux and osx. We are now working on version 3

<comment><AUTHOR> Open Subtitles API, if there is no downloading maybe the subtitle does not exist there or it is a problem with the browser, I have only tested with Chrome and Firefox.

<comment><USER6> haha, just noticed the menu on the left.

any way, I also have chrome. now when i'm trying i get this error message " Application Error An error occurred in the application and your page could not be served. Please try again in a few moments. If you are the application owner, check your logs for details." I guess that it's because of the load?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Welp.. [http://126.96.36.199/i/19_55_22-DE_Application_Error_- _Google...](http://188.8.131.52/i/19_55_22-DE_Application_Error_- _Google_Chrome_54.png)

<comment><AUTHOR> Yup that is happening when Open Subtitles API shutdown, I need to try catch the error, please try again ;)

<comment><USER8> When/why did they shut their API down?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Thanks! I was looking for subs to this one movie for really long time and you found it for me! Got a suggestion:

There are too many messages before I can download the subtitles. Perhaps dropping a file could take me straight to the language picker, and selecting the language will immediately result in download?

<comment><USER9> Never mind, I see you already implemented it. Cheers!

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> dropped an avi on it and it just downloade dit. touch handler not registered?

[edit] ah: i have to click through 3 intro dialogs first. suggestion: make that howto persistent on the page and make it work when you first land on it. Also, ask me to specify a language after dropping the file possibly

</comment><comment><USER11> Can't view on mobile, says browser is not supported. Would like to see anyway

</comment><comment><USER12> I have always been dreaming of a browser extension that could detect the video element on a page, and "inject" subtitle on the video.

Then we can watch Hulu or Netflix in another language besides English.

<comment><USER13> Related:

\- [http://amara.org/en/](http://amara.org/en/) does this for YouTube vids

\- [http://www.viki.com](http://www.viki.com) 's business model is licensing TV content and streaming it to foreign markets with crowdsourced subs (which end up being higher quality than the "professional" subs of their main competitor DramaFever because the subbers have a better set of motivations, such as preserving the origin culture)

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> If suggest making a more informative page for mobile browsers. I understand tge mobile browsers like safari mobile don't support the tech you need, but at least tell me what your web app is.

</comment><comment><USER15> Just tested it with a few movies, work great!

But I got some problems with the encoding, which didn't accept non-latin characters. Maybe encode it with UTF8/Unicode before sending it to the user.

</comment><comment><USER16> Cool, but my XBMC as well as SMplayer can automatically serach and download subtitles. This kind of functionality should be built in any player.

<comment><USER3> SMPlayer does not have a mac os x edition anymore. It's my favorite player on other platforms though and I love the subtitles feature.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> I can't recommend the VLC extension VLSUB enough. If you like/need subtitles, definitely try it out.

<comment><USER18> I thought it was never updated for the latest VLC version. Would update my extension file then, thanks.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> Any chance of getting Japanese added?

</comment><comment><USER20> However, this may also reveal the fact that your IP address is 'pirating' movies.

</comment><comment><USER21> Pretty cool.

I've been using SolEol for months and it's pretty great.

</comment><comment><USER22> It's better to improve the design of the website

</comment><comment><USER23> moviebeem.com does the same, drag drop to search subtitles

</comment><comment><USER24> Subtítulos.app is same but for mac desktop.

<comment><USER25> It's free and available for both Windows and Mac and you can download it at [http://subtitlesapp.com](http://subtitlesapp.com) (disclaimer: I'm the developer).

<comment><USER26> I use Subtitles for months and it has been pretty good. I wonder what's the parameter to select the best subtitle for the release, I'd suggest that the user badge is more important than the number of downloads.

Lately I've been using Subtitles a bit less because I got a VIP subscription on OpenSubtitles, so when I download from the site I skip ads. Would be incredible to download the subtitles as VIP on Subtitles though.</comment></comment></comment>


7 years and no success. I need help. - <AUTHOR>

Hello HN,
I'm a regular here, but for personal reasons I'll be using a throwaway account.
For the last 7 years I've been trying the entrepreneur game. I've have failed miserably with 6 failed startups under my belt.
For the last year or so I was working for a company that can no longer pay me and I'm for the first time in years without any income (last 7 years my income was extremely low since I was investing everything in my ventures). At this point I'm very frustrated and have no clue what to do.
I'm not a hacker, I'm a marketing guy. I know about usability, product, copywriting, lead generation and all those fancy things we marketing guys must know. Yet somehow, I can't get clients for myself (I'm trying the consulting route for SMB's but no luck).
I have two degrees, two masters, have travelled most of the world, yet I feel like a total failure. When it comes to building stuff and making a living out of it, it just does not happen.
I'm lost. I have no idea what I'm going to do to make rent next month, but besides that, what I'm most afraid of is this feeling of being a looser, of failure. Is one of the worst things I've experienced in my life and I have no clue what to do with it.
Professionally I'm also lost. I have a couple of good ideas that I'm to afraid to try them (I feel I'll fail miserably, again).
When it comes to money I suck too. I haven't been able to make a decent living for almost a decade. I'm tired. I don't know if I have to change how I understand money or what, but I can't comprehend how someone with my knowledge (I'm using all my strength to say that) can make so little money.
I'm sorry for this rant, but I don't have anyone to talk to. <comment><USER2> You sound like you've burnt out. You're liable to make bad decisions when you're worried, but more importantly, you can't really build anything if you're worried about rent. Rent is a more important problem.

There's nothing that will really shake you out of it, you're going to have to wait until you heal. This is the fastest way I know of that helps you do that.

1) Don't take yourself so seriously.

2) Workout hard

2) Get a real job.

On #1, don't beat yourself up. Won't help any.

On #2, I suggest just doing burpee intervals. Check my comment history, I put up a sample workout on another thread.

On #3, just get any job that will help pay bills and more importantly, allow you to get some savings for when you get back on to what you really want to do, which is become a successful entrepreneur. Move back with parents to save money. It's not going to take forever, at most, like a few months while the next best thing comes along.

</comment><comment><USER3> Personally:

\- If you don't already, start working out (nothing major, even if its doing push ups, squats, going for a short run, anything - just be active)

\- Eat well. Trust me on this one, adding good diet + sports will make a huge difference.

Professionally:

\- Keep on looking, im sure you will find a great opportunity soon (but remember one thing, you need to value yourself before other can value you).

\- If you have free time, volunteer it to other companies (reach out to startups or companies you admire, give them feedback, give them value). It wont cost you anything and it may help you find that inner motivation to pursue your own projects (or expand your network of contact).

\- Get a motivation buddy - if you want you can email me (myHNname at gmail. com). Perhaps I can provide you with some motivation for job hunting or working out. I've never done this but perhaps it's worth a try? As an FYI I'm based in New York.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you for reaching out. The whole value yourself thing got to me, I think I've been judging myself to harsh lately.

I'll get in touch.

<comment><USER3> Looking forward to it

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Take a job at a large company that won't fail for a while until you build up again? Most startups fail; it's like playing the lottery. You can always still do Startup Weekend and the like, teams there usually don't work for pay, so it's a cheap way to continue failing (and learning with each) while still not being limited to only working alone.

Re rent, see if you can move back home or in with a friend. I know lots of people who crash on a couch of a friend or two for a while in between places. Landlords I've talked to are pretty forgiving if you have to break a lease, as long as you move out immediately. They often have to deal with tenants who can't pay, but won't leave either (and thus have to be evicted). So they are often happy to just get the room free to rent to someone who actually can pay.

</comment><comment><USER5> Keep trying to freelance. Don't give up. If you can write good ad copy, you can make good money freelancing. It takes a little while to get started, but if you network well you can start making a decent income in a few months. You won't get rich, but you'll stay busy and make contacts. I freelance in another industry, but I know that good freelance copywriters are highly valued.

Regarding happiness, I'll be blunt and say I was never truly happy until I met my wife and had kids. I did the global traveling thing for several years, and it was fun, but I was lacking fulfillment until I started a family. I know that's not for everyone, but some people really would benefit from starting a family. If you don't have a family, it's something to at least consider.

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm married. I have an amazing wife and want kids. One thing that is killing me is that I now have the whole kids plan on hold. My wife is supportive of me, but she's hurting that we need to hold on those plans for now.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Get a job and put your startup/consulting plans on hold for a while (6 months?). After this cool down period, re-evaluate your priorities in life and then charter out your next steps.

I know it is easier said than done but don't let your past experiences bog you down. You don't even know how all those dots would connect in the future.

All the best.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks. The getting a job part is turning out to be quite difficult but I'm actively looking.

<comment><USER7> It took me 2 years to find a job that I really liked (and remotely, I'm in Europe too) and during that time I made sure to have a job that paid the bills and spent a lot of time on learning more stuff and doing side projects. The side projects didn't go anywhere but they sure where a learning experience.

Keep it up and try not to judge yourself too much - constructively critisise and not overwhelm yourself.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I will start by saying that for someone to do 7 startups and also travel the world, well that is pretty impressive. A lot of "making it" has to do with timing. I would say that you need to keep at it and don't give up. The worst thing you can do is to stop working your passion. So if you have some ideas, go out there and try them, again. Who know, this time it may work out. Failure is nothing to be ashamed of. Many great people have gone through several failures before they are seen as successes. Rovio, the guys who made Angry Birds, took 8 years, 51 titles, and in 2009 a close to bankruptcy claim to achieve their "overnight" success. Sometimes things just take time to germinate. Here is another great short by Michael Jordan talking about failure:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-EMOb3ATJ0&feature=fvst](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-EMOb3ATJ0&feature=fvst)

Other than that, I think that if you really are miserable, you should take a step back, take a moment to introspect about what you really want. Are startups what you really want to do? Do you really like traveling? Finding what you want can be the hardest thing to do sometimes. It might help to take some time off, go to a remote place and do some serious thinking. I would also even suggest a Vipassna retreat, there are several in different locations throughout the country.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vipassanā>

You are only 32, not that old, and have a lot of life ahead of you. Never give up on your dreams nor on yourself. There is greatness in human potential.

</comment><comment><USER9> With the information you have provided (your 32, two masters degrees, traveled the world) it sounds like you haven't had much opportunity to build real world working experience?? I am trying to be helpful (not critical) and point out that you have had much of a career yet (Hacker community really wouldn't put much stock in the two masters degrees)

I also am early thirties have lived in three countries, but worked for three startups for 2,2, and 5 years (no masters).

The single best piece of advice that anyone could give you...MOVE TO SILICON VALLEY TODAY.

Hope that helps

<comment><USER10> Can't agree with this more. It's like trying to make a movie in Hollywood vs. everywhere else. Also, teach yourself to code if you can or take an intro CS course.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Quora.com/startup-inspiration

Learn to code. Lots of resources out there now and u can do this while hunting for a job. With your business experience I think if you had the ability to create the system then you'd be golden.

To make rent, join up as a salesperson someplace - REI is a great job. Actually I found a friend a job there who was in exactly your shoes.

You really need to learn to detach yourself from labels and words. It's not easy but I think it's the only way an entrepreneur can succeed without going insane.

Right now focus on getting any job at all that will pay rent. Recruiter, market research, REI sales, retail, - hit all possibilities.

Then learn to code part time. Then get a coding job at startup. Then startup. Yeah it's 2 year plan but it's doable and for the next 10 years you'll have a job that pays you at least 100k.

</comment><comment><USER12> You must be under a lot of stress right now.

Just practically, 12 months isn't much time for any of your businesses to get traction, and being outside the United States usually means bootstrapping without much visibility. So even if you started another business NOW and it really became something, you'd still have to wait several years before being able to draw anything near the sort of salary that would count as a "decent living" and stop you from feeling depressed about it.

I'd think about getting a job. There's no reason you can't continue to do your own thing part-time. It might help you put together a better business if you can spend more time and money exploring things you enjoy, instead of focusing on what you can do in the short term to just scrape by.

</comment><comment><USER13> Sell the skills you have, e.g. do small business internet marketing consulting. Get six clients to pay you $500 a month. Work out the minimum you need to live, so you have max time to work on something else.

I would guess, your main problems might be: 1) making stuff people don't want, ideas suck, make stuff people want. All the lead gen and marketing in the world can't help if people don't want it. 2) not committing to something (probably because people don't want it and you are not sure about it).

Strongly agree with comments about working out, spend 20 mins every day doing it and thinking positive.

Keep going, don't turn back. Ordinary </comment><comment>----> Failure </comment><comment>-----> Success

</comment><comment><USER14> Just want to say how awesome it is that so many people reached out here with offers of personal contact!! If you still need additional support I am also offering. I am an educated professional counselor and may be able to offer a coaching perspective. My email too, is in my profile.

My immediate advice is to follow the previous advice about eating, sleeping, and activity. In addition, list your strengths (you are willing to take risks, you are educated, you are smart, you have expertise, you are well traveled, etc.....) and focus on them.

</comment><comment><USER15> Where in Europe are you? Were your startups focusing in Europe (markets are fragmented and unprofitable in most but the northwest)? Have you considered more conventional ideas? Creating something that goes with the flow (facebook apps/mobile / blogging etc)? 7 failed ideas doesn't sound much, esp. given that in the internet business ideas cost very little (I have many more failed projects myself). Educated, married and well traveled and you 're whining? I 'd say "buck up" in a friendly way.

</comment><comment><USER16> I'd vote first for stability, then confidence. Without those two things your odds of building a successful startup are basically non-existent.

One other useful data point would be: where are you, and where are you willing to move to?

It sounds like you have bigger issues than can be hashed out in a comment thread. My email is in my profile if you want to talk more.

<comment><AUTHOR> That's where my thoughts are going right now.

I'm in Europe. I'll write you an email.

Thanks.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> It can seem like an endless road and a thankless career. Focus on a simpler, basic life of the happy wanderer. Less computer time is probably a good step too. Too much stimuli of success images making you feel insignificant, and that is not true. email if you'd like to chat.

</comment><comment><USER18> What are the startups you worked on and why do you consider them to be failures? Maybe HN takes a different (more positive) view although I realise that telling us what they are might also identify you.

I just thought it might help to do a bit of HN Therapy.

</comment><comment><USER19> I'm sorry to read this. In my worldview, someone who has traveled most of the world is the opposite of a failure. It all comes down to how you feel about things. What makes you feel better? May I suggest volunteering? Without having met you, I feel like you have a world of experience and knowledge to offer. But your results seem to indicate that you are not getting what you want. Money is essential for living in the modern world; is there anyone who you could crash with for a while? When I used to read my diaries of my youth, I was struck by how depressed I consistently put down on paper. Things aren't what they seem to you.

</comment><comment><USER20> Send me an email, my info is in my profile. I have a need for someone with your skills. Location doesn't matter, but I'd like to see what you've done before and if you're interested in what I have to offer. Thanks.

<comment><AUTHOR> I'll contact you. Thanks.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> could it be that you give up easily? i'm just trying to figure out why your last 6 startups failed? what was the reason? having 6 startup failurs in 7 years means you only allowed 1 year for each product before jumping ship.

maybe the problem is that you haven't found the product or startup that you passionate about to make it go to the next level without giving up.

so what were the reasons for the startup failures?

<comment><AUTHOR> I think is a combination of things. In the first ones, inexperience above all. In the last 3 I simply couldn't generate enough traction.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> First, how old are you? I'm curious.

<comment><AUTHOR> 32.</comment></comment>


Table top scanning electron microscope - <AUTHOR> http://www.hitachi-hta.com/pageloader~type~product~id~450~orgid~42.html wow!  i learned on an old-school Phillips 505 (piccy http://www.clf.bas.bg/sem505.htm) and boy, that thing sucked - but this? 60k down, no LN2, 40k mag, EDAX, stereo... sweeeeeet ;-) given the US dollar - it's practically free! ;-) <comment><USER2> I can see how having something industrial packaged for home or desktop use can change things. It happened with computing, desktop publishing, photography, and it's on it way with 3D printing. They're all things that allowed people to create things with a lower cost.

However, I'm currently having a hard time seeing how a desktop microscope will change things, because it's an observation tool, rather than a creation tool. Anyone else got a different perspective?

It'd be fun and interesting to explore, that's for sure. It certainly wouldn't be a creation tool, but maybe educational and inspirational to see the world of the very small, just as it's inspirational to see the world of the very big with microsoft's telescope.

<comment><USER3> Consider Google maps: e.g., now amateur anthropologists and geographers have located previously unknown archeological sites.

I would expect a great deal of new observational discovery should a desktop microscope become economically viable. And once a phenomenon is observed, minds turns to ways to harness that phenomenon.

It's difficult to harness a supernova since it's so far out there, but anything viewable with a microscope is available _here_ and probably in abundance.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> FEI also has created one of these:

<http://www.phenomworld.com/></comment>


Hidden OS X feature: Twitter integration - <AUTHOR> http://www.tgdaily.com/html_tmp/content-view-37349-144.html <comment><USER2> Nice find, I shall have to try that out.</comment>


Dotbot, a tool that bootstraps your dotfiles - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/anishathalye/dotbot <comment><USER2> This seems to be much more bloated than homeshick [1] that I fail to see the point.

Somebody care to tell me what I'm missing?

[1] [https://github.com/andsens/homeshick](https://github.com/andsens/homeshick)</comment>


David Blaine Ascension [Live] - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwzvNAAqH3g <comment><USER2> I watched it and it was awesome. With all the practice and planning ahead, there were many small last minute decisions made. Maneuvering the unplanned landing zone was nail biting!</comment>


Can economics be accessible again to ordinary Americans? - <AUTHOR> https://bostonreview.net/class-inequality/samuel-bowles-joshua-cohen-everyday-economists <comment><USER2> Very cool - UMass Amherst is home to some rad peeps</comment>


Defender of the Favicon - Playable Defender Clone in a Favicon - <AUTHOR> http://www.p01.org/releases/DHTML_contests/files/DEFENDER_of_the_favicon/

<comment><USER2> The purest hack serves no other purpose but itself

</comment><comment><USER3> Utter glee.

Just make sure "Search for text when I start typing" is turned off within Firefox.

<comment><USER4> Ah, so _that's_ where I'm going wrong... ;)

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> One of the most useless, awesome, and orginal bits of programming I've seen for a long time. Perhaps a version that uses the status icons in the windows task bar could be a next step!

</comment><comment><USER6> perfect fit for your online resume

</comment><comment><USER7> Where do you start it?

</comment><comment><USER8> Mmmm.... hacktastical.

</comment><comment><USER9> awesome - thanks for posting

</comment><comment><USER10> Godly.</comment>


Ask HN: In 2018, what are you doing to get into or stay in shape? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> With 30 years of experience being overweight, I've finally found a secret that works for me:

Exercise doesn't work. Controlling your diet is king.*

Did you see the *? It should be much bigger. The statement "(Calories in < Calories out) -> Weightloss" is BS. It's never worked well for me.

Hundreds of years of poverty and famine has made my body just too good at storing energy reserves as fat. The hypothesized insulin related pathway I believe is the culprit. I said adios to wheat/rice flours, rice, pasta. My diet these days is mostly cruciferous vegetables and beans based. It's taken some work to be creative, but the bottom line is I no longer have to starve myself, or exercise excessively (I do practice yoga asana lightly) and I am lighter and feel much healthier. No more afternoon crash either.

</comment><comment><USER3> 6 miles a day plus lifting.

One of the most motivating factors I found for me was to read about tech while between sets and to turn on EE380 and other talks when running.

It fixes two things in one go:

1\. Keeping up with tech news in general (not TechCrunch mind you, but ISSCC and EE380 type).

2\. Keeping my fitness and energy levels up. I found through tracking my productivity that 7 miles and lifting gives me lowest # of bugs. Not enough time to run 7, so 6 it is.

</comment><comment><USER4> Prancercise: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIXIZ_8aGM8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIXIZ_8aGM8)

<comment><USER5> Better link: [https://youtu.be/MoRMUzljoAA](https://youtu.be/MoRMUzljoAA)

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> I run on avg 1 mile/day, and I play capoeira on avg 1-2 times/week.

I've started both 2 years ago (it was when Mark Zuckerberg was running 1mi/day), and successfully maintained both for the past 2 years.

I really like especially the running part, because I typically can't commit to anything on a daily basis, and even weekly when I travel I typically screw up my plans. With this arrangement, I know I that have to run 365mi in a year, and every month I do a check and correct my trajectory, including planning for a light period if I know I'm particularly busy with other things.

</comment><comment><USER7> Commitment to closing my rings every day (Apple Watch, 700kcal/day goal), eating a bit less, avoiding refined sugar, and supplementing probiotics. The Apple Watch + probiotic supplements helped me drop 20lbs over the past 12 months or so, without the intense focus on closing the rings every day. I'm shooting for 30lbs this year, which will get me within 15 of my target weight based on my height.

I was going for a perfect month this month, then I wussed out during two days of rain. But I'm back on track.

</comment><comment><USER8> Running back home from work, twice a week. I started this last year and it's great ! I have ~13kms which I cover in a bit more than 1h. That's only 10 minutes more than using the public transport and let me tell you that it's much more enjoyable !

I Highly recommend !

<comment><USER9> I'm assuming you take public transport to work in the morning. I'm also assuming you change clothes before your run home. What do you do with your clothes? Run with a bag? Leave them at work and bring them home on your rest day?

<comment><USER8> Exactly.

At my company, unfortunately there are no showers, so I can't run to the office in the morning. So I'm running every other day and on the rest day I'm brining my clothes from the previous one

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I turn 28 this year so I've been doing some lumbar exercises every* day to make sure my lower back doesn't hate me when I'm 58.

I generally run and lift weights in the mornings, but thats more to sharpen my focus than any physical effect.

</comment><comment><USER11> For long lasting effect you might want to stay away from excessive cardio. One mile a day? Getting ready for a race? All you need is to Lift Weights and follow Dan John's advice. If you are not an athlete then running has no benefits. Sprinting on your toes on the other hand is great. One kind of effective cardio is walking like a madman(Chad Waterbury) meaning that the gait and pattern is so confusing to your body that it won't ever get efficient. Personal experience with above suggestions.

<comment><USER5> A lot of studies disagree with you of the health effects of distance running [http://pitjournal.unc.edu/article/long-distance-running- inve...](http://pitjournal.unc.edu/article/long-distance-running- investigation-its-impact-human-health)

"Long-distance running has helped our species survive and evolve. Elements of the human physique, like the Achilles tendon and the length of the human body, make our bodies primed for running. Studies show that running can ease depression and anxiety. It can reduce risk of heart disease, diabetes, and obesity."

<comment><USER12> Parent mostly cares about being a bad mofo.... Totally sounds like the local 24 hour fitness trainers.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Running and indoor bouldering. I usually sign up for half-marathons periodically throughout the year as a forcing function to make sure I run frequently. Bouldering is challenging physically and mentally (figuring out the right way to make it up a route) and the indoor version is reasonably safe.

</comment><comment><USER14> Cutting back drastically on alcohol consumption, combined with bumping up exercise.

<comment><USER5> No need to cut back, just work your alcohol consumption into your exercise:

[http://www.beermile.com](http://www.beermile.com)

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Swimming with US masters swimming.

Running ~30 miles/week (not recommended).

Yoga/core/mobility work.

</comment><comment><USER16> People with kids, how are you staying in shape ? I have put on 30 pounds since my daughter was born two years back. Have barely anytime for myself and whatever I had , didn't want to use it for exercising

<comment><USER17> You use that time for exercising, even if you'd rather not. For me that means four days a week I use the entire quantity of my daily leisure, a bit less than two hours, exercising and cleaning up. I have a power rack, a bench and a treadmill in my garage which I bought specifically to save 20 minutes' drive to the gym and back.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Running 2 miles a day.

Problem: now I'm 26 miles from home and too tired to run back.

</comment><comment><USER19> Crossfit. As someone who's spent too much time in the past mixing up the same boring gym routine, I can attest to the awesomeness of crossfit. *new religion

<comment><USER20> How long have you been doing crossfit?? I did it for about 4 months before getting injured, my shoulder still hurts me to this day and that was 4 years ago.

<comment><USER19> First time for me was about 4 years ago, and I ran my first marathon shortly after starting (6 mos) of intensive crossfit, without even really training for it at all.

TBH my commitment level varies but when I am committed to getting in serious shape, it's now my go to thing. I agree that you definitely need to be really careful / mindful about avoiding injuries.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> My wife and I bought a stationery bike and a mountain climber and at least I have committed 10-20 minutes a day, to the best of my ability, on each.

<comment><USER21> What's a mountain climber?

<comment><AUTHOR> Maxi Climber, sorry. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvS4KnC8BcM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvS4KnC8BcM)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Insanity Max 30 and lowering my caloric intake.

</comment><comment><USER23> Caloric restriction

<comment><USER24> This. People often miss the fact that when it comes to losing weight or avoiding putting on weight in the first place the biggest challenge is dietary discipline. Unhealthy diet and excess of it combined is also the biggest cause of weight gain. When you curb it, control it, start eating healthy, and only as much as your body needs, it contributes massively more than exercises in losing weight.

It's so strange to see hundreds of posts on social media promising to run a marathon, do some exotic exercises and follow fancy sounding fitness regimes but no one even mentions responsible and healthy diets which actually defeats the purpose.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> Training with a heavy boxing bag.

</comment><comment><USER26> I run about 50 miles a week.

<comment><USER5> This. I Rrun too: I'll put in 90-100km this week.

I was thinking of trying for 5000km this year, but I think that is pushing it, so instead I'll target 2k miles which is much more doable for me.

Yes, I perpetually have something sore on me.

<comment><USER26> Yeah, I'll hopefully end up somewhere in the 2k mile range assuming no major injuries. I don't keep super close track of mileage just because it tends to make me push myself too hard.

I really don't worry as much anymore about whether I went 7 or 9 miles. Just getting out the door regularly is my main goal now.

<comment><USER5> I'm trying to learn this more. If it's a 20k run, I'll push to 13.1 miles just to do the half. If my weekly mileage is 98 km, I'll push to 100km. I am currently this moment icing my knee so I can push out a 28 km run hoping to reclaim the #2 spot in my run club.

Strava has been awesome in many ways but also brings out the overcompetitiveness in me. I'm really trying hard to set distance and pace goals and stick to them.

If I set goals when I'm sitting down at my desk they are good, healthy, achievable goals. If I set or change them when I'm running, they tend to be destructive: I can push an extra 3k today or why not pick up the pace these last 8 km, I might be able to finish in under 2 hour.

All that adrenalin and endorphins are horrible at helping you with decision making :)</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Tech Billionaire Milner Aims to Accelerate Progress by Bankrolling Science - <AUTHOR> http://singularityhub.com/2012/08/29/tech-billionaire-milner-aims-to-accelerate-progress-by-bankrolling-science/ <comment><USER2> That's great, except the research he is funding is pointless. String theory is not science, as there is no way to prove it. It is an overly complicate mess of mumbo-jumbo that lacks the elegance of other theories in physics such as relativity and electromagnetism.

</comment><comment><USER3> What's next? The Putin Fund for the Promotion of Punk Rock?</comment>


The Rise of Slow Feeds - <AUTHOR> https://fabriziorinaldi.com/blog/slow-feeds <comment><USER2> One of these days I ought to post to [https://pond.email](https://pond.email)

Maybe I'll try summaries of HN threads when they appear to have timed out rather than died out?</comment>


Optimizely acquired by content management company Episerver - <AUTHOR> https://techcrunch.com/2020/09/03/episerver-acquires-optimizely/ <comment><USER2> "Episerver" is basically private equity right? Optimizely took ~$200M in funding, and Episerver was traded between PE firms in 2018 for $1.1B. Doesn't sound like a great outcome for Optimizely employees...</comment>


New Android Trojan 'ADRD" Was Found in the Wild by Aegislab - <AUTHOR> http://blog.aegislab.com/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=75&blogId=1

<comment><USER2> If you offer a product that is supposed to fix a closed market managed by Google, and you didn't alert them, then how do I know that the "wild" wasn't your own place you knew where to look because you put it there. Now, if that isn't possible because we should trust your ethics, then that's isn't truly "the wild" nor is any of this full disclosure.

<comment><USER3> I think your accusation is too weak before lacking any evidence. There are many local market and web distributing the apps, for user, Google is not the single source. Maybe you don't know the fact is "For China users, they CAN NOT access Google market". Your world is not my world.</comment></comment>


Raspberry Pi on the Stack Exchange Network - <AUTHOR> http://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com

<comment><USER2> " Warning: this site is currently in private beta for 6 more days. Unless you committed to its Area 51 site proposal, you won't be able to log in!"

Well that was a let down.

<comment><USER3> Quite a spectacular waste of potential HN traffic… In 6 days time this submission will be nowhere, and and _new_ submissions will just be dupes of this sunk-to-he-depths post. Pretty silly timing alexchamberlain…</comment></comment>


Ask HN: As a freelancer how concerned are you about how fast you get paid? - <AUTHOR> Multiple part question for you guys,
1) When you submit your invoices, what are your typical payment terms - net 30, 60, 90 etc
2) Would you be willing to give your client a small discount (e.g. 2-3%) in exchange for the invoice being paid immediately, so you have the money in your account same day.
3) If you have to choose between clients, assuming all else is equal, are you more likely to work with the client who will pay you faster. <comment><USER2> 1) I have indivualized this. Before even writing the invoice I will have a long and sup-friendly chat over coffee with the accounting person or whoever takes care of thee billing in that shop. I let them explain in detail their process. I always learn something interesting about how the real world works. I listen. I listen to their woes, I sincerely try to understand them, their problems act everything. I establish rapport with that person. Finally I ask: "OK, now, how are we going to go about this?" At this point I normally have enough of an idea about their process to understand what kind of dates and other terms would make it work. I always highlight mutual respect.

2) First of all, normally I do not start to work before I received the money upfront. Well, the money for the current milestone of the project. This is the best way to make sure you don't waste time with people who don't want to pay.

Second, I am not only willing to give a discount, I always use this to sell the offer I want them to buy the most. But I never do an unreal number like "2%". What is that? Have you ever seen a 2% running in the wild? I don't know any bank or corporate office that work so fast that they give you the money on the sam day. Unless you are talking about "small" clients who work via pay-pal and the like?

3) I don't understand the question?

<comment><AUTHOR> Re 3) - Assuming at any one time there are two different clients with who you can work - the projects will pay the same, will take a similar amount of time etc. But you know one client will take say a month to pay, the other one a couple days after you submit your invoice.

Of course based on your answer with 2, I see it wouldn't really apply if you just take your payments upfront ... :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> For perspective: I started doing contract CAD work in 1990. I started doing freelance residential and commercial design in 2002. I started practicing architecture in 2007. The tl;dr: If I have doubts about a potential client paying quickly or at all I will validate that doubt by requiring a check rather than just hoping I am wrong.

Typically, I require a substantial retainer to be applied against _final_ invoice. By substantial, I mean big enough to cover all the billings up to _payment_ of the first invoice. Payment terms are always "Due on receipt of invoice." I am not in the no-interest short term unsecured loan business. This means:

1\. I will not be upside down where I am owed money for work I have done.

2\. I will not discover that the client does not have funds to pay me.

3\. I will avoid potential clients with a strong propensity not to pay without investing much time.

4\. I will avoid potential clients who will use me as a bank.

5\. I will avoid potential clients who believe that since they did not build it, they should not have to pay.

The most significant characteristic of a good client is that they pay quickly and well. Here, "well" can mean a lot or regularly, but preferably both. Writing a check before we start is a good indicator.

There are exceptions of course. Bureaucratic organizations have their payment procedures. On the other hand, if the person who I am talking to cannot authorize a retainer, then I might not be talking to the right decision maker about the financial aspects of the contract.

Good luck.

<comment><AUTHOR> Fair enough, thanks for the feedback Ben, appreciate it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> 1) I try to have slightly weird terms so that I don't slot neatly into any standard way of ignoring invoices.

2) Yes, in principle, though (a) it complicated taxes and (b) none have ever taken me up on the offer. You could go to a factor to do it for you though.

3) Unless it's a huge difference, no.

When I started at RBS in 2008, having escaped Lehman Brothers just in time, I was glad that I had been switched to weekly invoicing (without being asked) since RBS' share price halved live while I watched in the first week and I wasn't sure that RBS would be alive to pay me in week 2!

<comment><AUTHOR> 1) Weird how? Any examples?

2) Have you ever used factoring services before? What was the experience like?

<comment><USER4> 1) 21 days or 8 days or 17 days. NOT 30 days or a multiple thereof.

2) No, though I have been tempted occasionally. In one case the accounts dept was sympathetic with me over their MD being slow _every_ invoice signing off, so I'd go and have tea with them for an hour each Friday afternoon and book it as paid time "OH:Admin". We reckoned that that easily covered any interest costs to me, and made Friday so much better!

<comment><AUTHOR> Have you found any change in how people pay the invoices after you started doing the nonstandard days?

<comment><USER4> I generally end up getting to know the relevant people in accounts when they ask me "Uh, what do we do with this?" and talk to them and build enough of a relationship that payments are made as well as they can be. (Or else, in some spectacular cases, an accounts person being stupid to me gets fired.)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> 1) 30 days.

2) Probably

3) Always, clients who pay on or before time get priority all other things been equal, cashflow trumps pretty much everything else.

If I have more clients than I have time then the clients who get dropped of the list are the ones who pay late, I've done the work I shouldn't have to chase you for the money.

I just took a full time job though as freelancing is way too much not- programming and I 'just' want to be a programmer for as much of the day as possible.

<comment><AUTHOR> 1), 2) - so if they offered to pay same day, how much would you be willing to knock off? 5%, 10%, more?

3) Were invoice related things the primary time drain that took you away from dev work, or was it a combination of everything - marketing yourself, interacting with clients etc ... ?

<comment><USER5> Probably 5% I don't think I'd go to 10% as that would be a fairly big hit.

Invoice related things were not the primary _time_ drain since I paid the accountant to chase invoices however late invoices where a major concern because underlying cash flow is what makes or breaks you.

The other thing that becomes an issue is the classic "project management" issue, doesn't matter how good your process is if the people on the other side simply don't get it and that causes a lot of problems (projects stall because you can't get the data/information you need), fixed deadlines loom close and you are stalled waiting for information.

In the end if you care about producing high quality work it's incredibly stressful and frankly after 4 years I'm sick of it, I'm _really_ looking forwards to working on internal systems for a big company, replacing "every client is a boss" with "this is your boss" sounds lovely to me.

<comment><AUTHOR> Hypothetically speaking, if you didn't have to spend money on the accountant, and if your invoice was paid immediately 100% of the time, would that get you closer to be willing to give up up to 10%?

<comment><USER5> Theoretically yes a lot closer but solving the problem of small/medium businesses paying freelancers/contractors on time isn't a simple problem.

<comment><AUTHOR> Cheers, thanks for the feedback :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> 1\. Payment is due on receipt of invoice

2\. I give a 10% discount for invoices paid on the same day as receipt

3\. I will not do repeat work for someone who did not pay on time

<comment><AUTHOR> 1) Have you run into any issues with bigger companies with it being due on receipt? - While it's ideal, most companies would have their own fortnightly or monthly payment cycles no?

2) Is the cashflow that much of a factor, or do you up your original invoice by 10% just to cover that possibility without taking a hit?

3) So if they pay you say within 2 weeks, would you not want to do repeat business?

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> 1) 7 days 2) nope 3) i do the work on you terms, you pay me on my terms. ( im not cheap, minimum is $80 an hour)

<comment><AUTHOR> Have you run into any issues where you would want to work with an otherwise good client, but they would only be able to pay on net 30?

<comment><USER7> I will never work for 30.

<comment><AUTHOR> Gotcha, thanks for the feedback. :)

<comment><USER8> I don't think he understood the question. "For 30" sounds like he meant "$30 per hour" and not "on net 30 terms."

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> 1) net immediate but invoice is sent on the first of every month

2) 10% discount if paid on same day and any (Paypal) fees removed

3) I document my work and send an invoice to the client - I expect payment within a week and would prefer those clients who see the work is done and want to pay their bill immediately

When I send an invoice, I usually put payment due upon receipt, however, for clients that I do daily work for or updates once a month, I only send an invoice once a month.

I've never had issues with clients paying because I have showed them purposely what happens when I don't update their websites... they actually crash after a while. WordPress is great, and will almost always work to an extent even when outdated, but massive plugins that are database intensive and rely on user input usually start failing after a few months of not being updated.

So yeah, if they don't pay, I don't update their website, and it starts to break, and by that time, I usually charge them more to figure out what went wrong, and they learn that paying my invoices on time, will save them money in the long run.

I have only ran into a problem once.. a client forgot to pay me and I let it slide for the entire month. I sent her an email reminding her that she had not paid the invoice and if she would like to continue my services to please pay her invoice. She paid within 24 hours.

I also usually offer my clients two options:

1) pay me hourly and be sent an invoice every month

2) pay me yearly and receive a huge discount

So for example, if I build a website for someone, on the invoice, I display separate monthly maintenance pricing and per hour, it might be $30/hr, while paying me yearly might only cost them $1000 for the entire year.

So what are the benefits and disadvantages?

Charging hourly is for clients you know who are going to demand your time and are picky and sometimes want custom work. You can determine how they are going to be when building their website. They will nitpick and probably argue with you more often than you'd like. These clients will milk you for your time when they can, getting you on phone calls, emailing you, wanting to know everything, asking so many questions, etc., so best not to even offer the other option.

Charging yearly is for clients you know who might call upon you once or twice a month, but pretty much you are just providing some support and maintenance. This is for clients who are much more laid back and less demanding. It is best to offer this plan and the other one.

I've had a few clients pay me yearly and most of the time, I haven't really had a loss. For some, I may have done a little more work than I would have liked, but it is also the gamble I take when offering clients those options.

On the bright note of being paid yearly, you get paid immediately upfront so you see the money right away, but you risk your client needing more work and you end up getting paid less than if you had charged hourly. You obviously can't take this back. So it is good to know your clients well and their demands before offering such an option.

The bonus is that if they don't use your services that much.. you made some good money for doing very little work, sometimes no work at all, if they don't call upon you for the entire year. Easy money.

<comment><AUTHOR> 1) Were there any clashes with their own payment cycles? - e.g you send out the invoice on first of month, expecting immediate payment, but their own cycle pays out all outstanding invoices at the end of the month?

3) With the yearly payments, is there any clause e.g. you get upto 50 hours of work, after that it's hourly rate' or the like to prevent abuse?

<comment><USER9> 1) For one client who runs a business she sometimes takes a week to pay it. I don't think I've ever had trouble with a client paying except that one I mention.. she got busy and didn't see my invoice email but once I sent a reminder it was paid immediately.

2) I probably should do that but like I said you feel the client out and their needs. I have had to go back to a client and raise the amount I was charging telling them I had to be fair with my pricing and due to their needs was increasing it.. it was only about $300 or so.

Once I made the mistake of charging $500 to a client to do her website and she nitpicked everything to the point where it is now almost 4 years later and the website still has not gone live. I obviously made no money on it, but after reaching out several times, I can't even get a hold of her. I charged that little as a favor to my brother, who recommended her to me, and because she was looking for a "cheap" website -- this was a red flag. She runs a million dollar business but did not want to invest in her website, but wanted to nitpick like she paid thousands of dollars for one. So yeah.. it took me almost a year to get money from her... and when she paid.. she nitpicked even more and the website never even went live.

I always say to my clients: "if you are fair with me I will be fair with you." This statement here seems to make people understand that I am human trying to make a living just as they are. I'm not trying to rip anyone off or anything considering my client base is usually small business owners trying to make it as well.

<comment><AUTHOR> Gotcha, thanks Matt :)</comment></comment></comment></comment>


A scheduling tool for bread baking - <AUTHOR> http://www.breadscheduler.com/ <comment><USER3> I have been baking sourdough for 2+ years and I don't think people should take the timing too seriously. Yes it's good to loosely follow a schedule but if you don't the bread will still turn out fine. I don't think I've ever followed the exact same schedule twice. A few times I flat out forgot about the dough and shaped it hours after I was supposed to, and it still came out amazing. Sourdough is very forgiving. The most important thing in my opinion is mix it thoroughly in the beginning and to do the stretch and folds properly so the dough has strength and can hold it's shape for the later bulk rising.

<comment><USER4> As a beginner, I find a tool like this useful for understanding the general schedule and a visual depiction of the steps required, without taking the precise timing too seriously

<comment><USER3> Definitely as a beginner it helps to follow a schedule and start to notice some patterns. As you make bread more and more you start to rely on more visual and tactile signals. For instance, I know that the levain is ready when it appears 'bubbly' enough, and the stretching and folding is done when the dough is 'tough' enough, and that the bulk fermentation is complete when the dough has approximately doubled in size.

This is a great beginner's guide that I have shared with many folks: [https://www.theperfectloaf.com/beginners-sourdough- bread/](https://www.theperfectloaf.com/beginners-sourdough-bread/). After some time I have settled on theperfectloaf's 'best sourdough' recipe, which has a higher hydration.

<comment><USER4> Thanks! I'll give this one a shot too.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Or you could also learn how to make mixed 4/3 rye/wheat sourdough with a natural starter, which requires no scheduling at all. Just mix it in the morning and put it in the oven some time in the late afternoon/evening.

I've been doing it for years and it's the only kind of bread that I can make on a regular basis. It's something you can actually do daily, not an additional hobby.

Ingredients:

* 400g full-grain rye flour

* 300g wheat flour

* 10-15g salt

* 600ml water

* 50-80g levain starter (rye based)

mix, wait 6-8h, bake at 210C for 1h05.

This is a very popular kind of bread in Poland, while I found that in the US people don't really know what to do with full-grain rye flour. I've read books that said it can only be used to make dark pumpernickel breads, and I never found the recipe above (or similar) in any bread-baking books I've read.

Also, the rye starter is fairly stable, forgiving and easy to maintain in a fridge.

<comment><USER6> Most of my breads use a mixture of rye and wheat with a wheat sourdough. I'll have to give the rye sourdough a try.

Finding rye at retail stores in the USA is very difficult. I have to order mine directly from a mill.

<comment><USER7> We do rye and wheat sourdough at home, as well. Prior to the lockdowns I had no problem finding 5 pound bags of wheat flour and 3 pound bags of rye flour. Now, though... Can't even find it online.

<comment><USER8> Huh. I was just at the local Asian grocery. Piles of bags in the back.

<comment><USER7> I honestly hadn't thought to look for it at any of our nearby Asian grocery stores. We used to frequent our local H Mart, Zion Market, and 99 Ranch, but have been sticking to our more immediate grocery store for the past 4 weeks, or so. I'm due to restock kimchi soon anyway, thanks for the suggestion.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Unlike the rest of the readers of HackerNews I'm not an expert on breadmaking. So, to me this looks like a very cool resource that could make me feel confident enough to try. It also looks real nice, and plays well on mobile! Nice work!

</comment><comment><USER10> For those of us working in tech, it can be extremely satisfying to bake your own bread. I did that a few years ago, starting from scratch, making my own sourdough starter, and baking daily. It's rediscovering what a typical family did centuries ago. Your starter becomes a pet. I had to stop it due to a lot of travel, but I still have a packet of my starter vacuum sealed and frozen. Maybe I should try again. Travel certainly won't be an issue for a while.

<comment><USER11> Not to forget the amazing smell of freshly baked bread!

<comment><USER10> Yes. My bread never lasted long enough to reach the room temp.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I hope this works for somebody, but I'm going to have to critique the whole concept of "timing' when baking sourdough bread.

After years of baking sourdough I find that I cannot predict precisely the timing. I have to judge the dough at each step and not proceed until it is ready. This is especially true in that I like trying new things, making tweaks, fermenting at different temperatures, and this alters the timing. The timing depends highly on temperature, where in the refresh cycle the starter is at (still rising? fallen and foamy?), but also very much on your particular starter. Some starters run slow (especially newly created ones). Others are fast. Using someone else's timing just never seemed to work for me. Early on when I started baking sourdough I made some absolute bricks because I followed the timing that the recipe specified, even though their descriptions of the dough seemed very different to what I was seeing. And if they said two hours, then eight hours must certainly be enough... but it wasn't enough. Yes, it really can be off by that far (especially with a new weak sourdough starter that wasn't refreshed properly).

Nonetheless, you have to have some sort of plan. Turns out that I can always make it work within a certain set of bounds if I am home all day on some given day. And that has driven me into the following pattern:

1\. Remove sourdough starter from refrigerator the night before, and refresh.

2\. Build dough in the mid morning with active starter

3\. Bulk ferment (with stretches and folds) in a proofer until it is ready

4\. Pre shape. Then shape. Then refrigerate in bags.

5\. Bake the loaves (I always do two boules) early the next morning.

This is by no means the only pattern that can be made to work, but it's robust and flexible enough for anything I've ever thrown at it.

<comment><USER13> One thing that really made a massive difference for me was making a proofing box. It's a large EPS container (similar to the ones that market sellers use) with a seedling heating mat inside. I control it with a cheap (like < $10) thermostat from Amazon. It maintains around 26C quite easily and is pretty efficient. I've never bothered to check the accuracy of the thermostat, but I imagine it's within a degree or two. You can also use it for fermentation, Noma have instructions on how to build one. My only suggestion is don't do what I did and go nuts on the size. You can get away with a much smaller box (e.g. I bake 500g loaves mostly, and I use a 4L graduated polycarbonate container - it's dwarfed by the size of the box).

Temperature control makes an enormous difference. I live in a cold house, hence why I built this. To make things worse, my kitchen has marble worktops. So if you use cold or tepid water and then knead, you end up cooling the dough even more on the counter. It's a bit different with Tartine because you don't really knead the dough, but still - yeast is optimally active around 25C or so and if you have to wait for the dough to come up to temperature, that can easily add an hour or two. So you can control this by measuring the temp of your water and using a climate controlled box (which costs about a tenth of one of those pop-up Broder ones).

I do agree about starter refresh cycles though, as well as what hydration you put in, how much you put in, what exactly the flour is. I don't climate control my starter except during the winter when it sits by the boiler.

Most of the time my routine is identical to yours. Feed the starter overnight Friday, make the dough Saturday morning and bulk it during the day. Refrigerate overnight and bake on Sunday.

Strongly recommend watching Chad do it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4dyWZZVeWI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4dyWZZVeWI)

It answered a lot of questions I had from reading the book.

<comment><USER14> I love this idea of a proofing box with temp control using a heated mat. Thanks for sharing it!

<comment><USER13> FYI the basic design is actually within the preview on Google Books (page 47).

[https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Noma_Guide_to_Fer...](https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Noma_Guide_to_Fermentation.html?id=-iJ9DwAAQBAJ)

I recommend adding a wire rack so your container doesn't sit directly on the mat as well.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I'm from Australia, and this site uses a weird imperial mix and metric measurements.

Weights are in grams, but temperature is in fahrenheit (I think, doesn't actually say).

Please use one measurement system make it consistent, as well as switchable. Thanks.

<comment><USER16> I'm from Germany. Thanks for having ingredients in grams and making it switchable. But how much is 425°F in Celsius? :)

<comment><USER17> Easy way to remember: 32F = 0C, -40F = -40C, and the relation is linear

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> I feel like that website is slightly counter-productive, because it puts a very strong emphasis on timing, whereas for producing high-quality bread, things like dough handling techniques, dough and oven humidity, or baking temperature have a much stronger effect than timing.

<comment><USER19> You're right that it's important to observe the dough and modify timing as needed.

I think, however, that for many folks who are trying out baking sourdough for the first time, it helps them a lot to start with a fully detailed recipe that includes timing. The instructions on that bread scheduler will AT LEAST get you to the right ball park (assuming you use similar flour to the instructions).

For those starting this out, I would recommend following one of these detailed recipes, do it several times or more, and that way develop some sense of what factors to tweak.

Taking a closer look at the instructions, I see they're not emphasizing dough temperature during bulk ferment. Household kitchen temperatures can vary quite widely and this temperature is an important factor in how long the dough takes to ferment. That's why it's valuable to press the dough with your finger and gauge readiness prior to shaping steps.

<comment><USER18> I believe what most newcomers will want to bake is not a large bread - <USER2> then you're stuck with it if it turns out so-so - but rather smaller bread rolls. Those are based on instant yeast and prepared rather swiftly, so then the kitchen temperature becomes a major success/failure factor.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> I have found that a minimal version of no-knead bread is already good:

700ml flour, 350ml water, 1 to 1.5 tsp salt, 1/4 tsp instant yeast. Mix in bowl, cover, let stand for 12-16 hours. Put dutch oven in oven, heat to 250C. Take out the hot dutch oven, sprinkle some bran or flour or cornmeal on the bottom, scrape dough from the bowl into the dutch oven, sprinkle some bran on top. Bake 30min with lid, remove lid, bake 20min more.

I am sure extra steps (autolyse) and extra work (folding, shaping) would improve it, but even this minimal procedure makes tasty bread.

<comment><USER21> Does the bread rise while it's baking in the oven? I've tried to do this no- knead recipe and the bread came out pretty flat.

<comment><USER20> The dough bubbles and more than doubles in volume in the bowl when the yeast is slowly working. If you wait too little, it hasn't risen yet. If you wait too long, it will rise and then start to flatten back. You can see this from the sides of the bowl, that the dough has reached a higher level earlier, and started to contract, but left some marks up to the maximum where it was. I guess the timing depends on how much yeast you added exactly, and the temperature in your kitchen. You don't need to get it perfectly right, but it you wait way too little or way too long I guess the bread comes out dense.

You just scrape the risen dough from the bowl into the dutch oven with minimal disturbance, so you don't disturb the air bubbles too much. And your oven and the dutch oven need to be hot at this point, so the dough goes right into a hot oven, the heat expands the air bubbles and gives you some oven spring.

Other recipes make you sprinkle flour on a working surface, fold and shape the dough into a loaf, and then leave it, giving the shaped loaf a second rise.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> This may be the first recipe list I've ever seen that doesn't include a 20 page essay on family history followed by half a dozen ads. I like the design

<comment><USER23> I totally agree! Most recipe sites don't focus on what I want: recipes. I'm a pretty good home cook and I've been trying to get better at timing. Getting all elements of a big dinner party ready at the same time is tricky. This website is terrific. I wish this approach were applied to more complex multi- dish meals.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> I've recently been making very low effort bread, which takes less then 10 minutes overall, and is (in my novice eyes) exactly the same as bread that has been kneaded with the "proper" schedule. Perhaps one of the experts here can shine a light on why something simple like below creates (almost) the same quality as a mixture that has been processed with much more effort?

\- Put everything in a bowl, and mix it until it's consistent. Usually takes 2-ish minutes. I find a simple, non-sharp knife to work best. \- Cover it with cloth and let it sit for 12-20 hours depending on the mixture and temperature. \- Get the mixture out, en cover with flower on all sides. Don't knead or overly touch (it will lose volume). \- Preheat the oven with an iron cast over pot, once it's hot (250C), take out the pot, put in the mixture, and put on the lid. Halfway into the baking time, take off the lid.

<comment><USER25> This is exactly my recipe, which I have been using for 5 years now with great success. It's foolproof. The bread will usually look like shit after you dump it into the iron cast pot, but will have a nice and smooth and tight surface after the first baking round with the lid on.

The bread will look like this: [https://holycowvegan.net/wp- content/uploads/2018/02/no-knead...](https://holycowvegan.net/wp- content/uploads/2018/02/no-knead-sourdough-bread-7.jpg)

If you stop the baking without the lid sooner, it will look like this: [https://joyfoodsunshine.com/wp- content/uploads/2017/04/dutch...](https://joyfoodsunshine.com/wp- content/uploads/2017/04/dutch-oven-no-knead-bread-recipe-1.jpg)

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> Thanks for this. I'm extremely blessed to have a wife that enjoys making bread, and makes the best sourdough I've ever tasted. It's mostly in her head but from the notes I've pieced together it seems close to the weekday sourdough. Bread is so easy to make and so delicious if you have patience, I really hope this leads to more people making bread. Store bought tastes like paper in comparison.

Protip to any future breadmakers: buy a cast iron Dutch oven. It's the real game changer.

<comment><USER27> I've been wondering about that. The last time I baked bread was 10+ years ago. At the time, I got professional results with just a pizza stone and a spray bottle of water. The water replaced the steam oven and did a great job of gelatinizing the crust. Unfortunately I don't think I can get a dutch oven during the lockdown.

<comment><USER26> So, my wife has been making bread a while and it was always 'chewy'. Don't get me wrong, it was delicious, but there was no crust to the bread. After researching, the consensus was that the lid helped keep the steam in and brown the bread. You only leave it on for half the bake, typically. But the difference between bread on a stone and bread in a proper enclosure is truly night and day.

Thinking through not having access to a proper dutch oven, water would probably work but I'd think you'd still need a cover of sorts, even if makeshift foil.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> This is really cool, but to complete these recipes successfully on schedule you'd have to account for the ambient temperature of your house and adjust accordingly. A rise overnight at 65 degrees is going to take ~twice as long as one during the day at 75.

<comment><USER29> I'm pretty new to bread making (like many I'm sure) but today realized I could use the oven to help rise, as our house is kept cool. Basically turn on the oven at its lowest setting for a few minutes and then turn it off, and let your dough rise in the warmer atmosphere of the oven.

<comment><USER30> If your oven has an incandescent light, often that's just warm enough. Just leave it on. Same with gas ovens with a lit pilot. I recently noticed mine has a "proof mode" I had been meaning to test out.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> This is _amazing_! Great juice on the animations, the halving checkbox is a lovely touch.

You might want to proofread the recipe steps, check the temps update with metric/imperial switches, and add a TLS redirect.

</comment><comment><USER32> Are the amounts on the website broken or am I slightly dense? The "Overnight Weekend Bread" recipe ([http://www.breadscheduler.com/#/recipe/5bac85f720211052e0b70...](http://www.breadscheduler.com/#/recipe/5bac85f720211052e0b703f1)) instructs you to create 500g-550g of levain (the amounts in the overview and the step-by-step instructions don't quite match for me). Then, in the "Mix Dough" step it tells you to use 108g of the levain. What happens to the rest? Are you supposed to throw it out or keep it as your sourdough starter?

Also, the "Autolyse" step tells you to use 402g of white flour while the overview specifies 804g. (Judging by the hydration they must certainly mean 402g).

<comment><USER33> Also times of all steps in "Step by step instructions" are 9:14.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> At least personally, when my sourdough is ready (by appearance and feel) for the next step corresponds to the "time" from the "recipe" so infrequently that I'm shocked when it does

Following a schedule exactly is a great way to make Frisbees (short dense loaves)

</comment><comment><USER35> This is cool. One minor thing, at least on Firefox it's not possible to open the links to different breads in a new tab. It'd be nice to have that, just so the user can open the breads that interest them in tabs and then sort through them.

</comment><comment><USER36> So funny how tech people must have such a detailed recipe for baking with sourdough. It's the same with coffee.

Listen.

Dough is a living organism. You cannot set a timer to it. It must be nursed, especially based on what flour you use, freshness of the flour, the climate, the moisture etc.

If you want to be really good at baking, then bake at least 100 loafs and see what you learn.

Then try to change the flour brand and bake again. Then you will se a different result.

You cannot time food. Get it.

<comment><USER10> Yes, you're right. It really doesn't take a genius to make a sourdough. But you're misunderstanding the tech people. They will take tying shoelaces to the genius level. Same with baking bread. And it's a lot of fun for a lot of us.

<comment><USER37> Perhaps slightly off topic, but I have for years admired the cooking schematics on Cooking for Engineers. Here's the recipe for meat lasagne - scroll to the bottom and admire the schematic and the bonus layer diagram:

[http://www.cookingforengineers.com/recipe/36/Meat- Lasagna](http://www.cookingforengineers.com/recipe/36/Meat-Lasagna)

Edited to add: Oh, and you mentioned shoelaces, so the venerable Ian's Shoelace Site is a must:

[https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/](https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> Anyone know a good recipe for a real French baguette? I haven't yet been able to find a baguette in the Bay Area that tastes like they do in France (lived there for three years).

And honestly, good butter is hard to find too, although I did locate a little store in San Mateo that carries Echire.

<comment><USER39> Finding a flour that is close to French type 55 is going to be the biggest problem for getting a baguette that is close to authentic. Try King Arthur for some of the custom blends that are close to what you need; US "all purpose" flour has too much protein and the lower protein "cake flour" has a grind that is too fine.

</comment></comment><comment><USER40> Very well designed and implemented!

Would you mind adding a 12h/24h switcher? I'm in the EU and I can't figure out what 12am means vs. 12pm even though I keep looking it up.

<comment><USER11> It's super confusing.

The easiest way I've found to understand it is to think of 12 as being zero, so the times go 11am (11) -> 00pm (12) -> 1pm (13) -> 11pm (23) -> 00am (24) -> 1am (25).

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> Neat! I agree with the commenters above that we geeks try to take bread making (essentially, a free art form), and quantify it somehow and make it into and algorithm. And cheers to that!

Feature request: adjust timing automatically given a humidity + temperature measure.

Feature request 2: fetch ambient humidity and temperature automatically from users' GPS and time of day. ;-)

</comment><comment><USER42> Great idea! Made my first sourdough bread yesterday after a couple of weeks of trying to get a starter going, the process is a fun and interesting project, especially while staying at home, and you don't need much to get started (flour, water, ideally a cast iron pot, scales). Tastes amazing and reduces social contact of having to go to the shops/bakery too :)

<comment><USER43> For something easy and delicious, try the below - half the recipe though, as it makes masses. [https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/thiswayup/audio/20...](https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/thiswayup/audio/2018620256/french- flatbread-fougasse)

<comment><USER42> Looks great! Thanks

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER44> This is nice! I have been baking my own bread for a while now in a large masonry oven, it takes a while to learn when the temperature in the oven is right and the dough is good. Baking bread is more an art than science IMO. You learn it by doing it, this is a nice starting point.

</comment><comment><USER45> Small bug report, I'm seeing "Invalid date" here: [https://imgur.com/rdcKJgw](https://imgur.com/rdcKJgw)

I just set the start time to "right now". Safari Version 13.1 (15609.1.20.111.8)

</comment><comment><USER46> Next step is to better schedule yeast procuring in stores around the world, I have been looking for it at stores close to me for two weeks now with no success, I've read that the situation is similar in other European cities.

<comment><USER47> Yes, but while dried yeast is sold out completely here, locally produced fresh yeast is still available. There's also other forms (freeze-dried, liquid, etc) you can look for.

</comment></comment><comment><USER48> Not sure if intentional but I really loved seeing Recipe.vue open and with comments and logs... I'm trying to learn how to generate charts with SVG and D3, this is helpful.

</comment><comment><USER49> I discovered yesterday that loaf pan is mostly sold out in Target, Walmart. Guess people really have more time to do bakery due to the WFH.

<comment><USER27> Flour and sugar have been sold out everywhere I've gone since the quarantine started in the bay area.

</comment></comment><comment><USER50> It's a good idea for a tool, but it could use a dough temperature and automatic schedule adjustment based on a modified temp.

</comment><comment><USER51> I picked Sour Dough, changed start time to tomorrow morning, the diagram went blank and the schedule now shows Invalid Date.

</comment><comment><USER52> This is super interesting.

I tried my first bake yesterday, and it... did not go well. Second try is currently forming. Fingers crossed.

<comment><USER53> What were your breads' problems?

<comment><USER52> Sorry I didn't see this until just now, but the bread didn't rise at all. Just a cold lump. The second loaf came out great though.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER54> This is great! What I miss though is some search or filtering of flour type. I only use spelt and rye.

</comment><comment><USER55> Does someone has a plan to find T65-like flour in UK/London? Everything looks sold out now.

<comment><USER56> I'm in the same situation. I still have some (finely ground) wheat flour, but can't get any bread flour nor rye flour :/

</comment></comment><comment><USER57> Don't buy sourdough bread from supermarkets, they don't make it right. I heard that every time you buy one from them a hipster dies.

</comment><comment><USER58> I love it!! Thanks for making!

</comment><comment><USER59> Love it!!!

</comment><comment><USER60> Few appreciate what has gone wrong with regular store bought bread. Regular store bought bread is created with the Chorleywood process, whereby substandard wheat and carbon dioxide can be mashed together to make some dough that can be baked into something that resembles bread.

These loaves of bread-style-wheat things are not made with just the basic ingredients needed for bread. There are the E numbers for preservatives and whatever else is 'needed'. Often the additives are added to the flour rather than the dough and therefore do not have to be listed. Stuff derived from human hair can get in there as an 'E number'. Often people self-diagnose themselves as having gluten or other allergies when there could be problems with the additives rather than the core product of what bread is supposed to be.

Chucking out store bought bread and joining the sourdough club is a popular reaction to the industrial nonsense that poses as 'bread'. However, there are economic factors at play here. Sourdough keeps and it can be sold at a premium.

Actual fresh bread made with yeast and zero additives does not keep and cannot be sold at a premium. It is also less trendy and not on the radar of the hipster crowd. However, if one is sorting out one's bread properly then a bread machine and the ingredients for bread making is a shrewd investment. It takes five minutes to load the machine with 500g of flour, 360 ml of water, 25g of some type of fat, a teaspoon of yeast, a teaspoon and a half of sugar (to make the yeast do its thing) and a teaspoon and a quarter of salt. You can then press the start button to have the freshest bread you could wish for in four hours. Or you can set the timer so it is ready in the morning or when you are back from work.

By taking this approach you have the benefits of pure, fresh bread with none of the downsides of lengthy preparation times. You don't need an app to manage your sourdough. It is also energy efficient as a bread machine is a small rather than large appliance. The Panasonic machines are best as you have recipes based on that machine plus you can get spare parts and the beginners manual uses metric rather than obscure 'cup sizes'.

With home-machine, properly bakes bread you don't need to be chewing on some sourdough rusk that is essentially stale, you can fire up the machine and keep the fresh loaves coming every 2-3 days. You can mix and match the flours to keep your bread varied. You can also focus on what you eat your bread with rather than try to forever by adding ingredients to the bread such as tomatoes, olives, nuts etc.

If you can maintain the routine then you never need join the sourdough club, you can cut your own way with the innovative 'yeast' ingredient used properly rather than thrown out.

<comment><USER61> Your rant would be better if you didn't misunderstand the need for sugar.

<comment><USER60> Look, in my opinion the rejection of store bought bread made with the Chorleywood process to go for sourdough or anything else trendy is not entirely rational, there is much to recommend bread baked the conventional way with a machine. It means you ain't spending your time scheduling your life around some silly baking affectation but you get your bread.

That is a fair comment that needs a few words to understand. I appreciate that to those that can only write one liners this could appear as a 'rant'. But it is not.

However, I do now have a reason to rant, to rant about those that write things such as your comment without explaining in full why the need is there for sugar in bread.

<comment><USER61> You don't need sugar, You need carbohydrates, which are supplied in the flour. 4 ingredients are required, Flour, Water, Yeast and Salt. (though, in a pinch, you can do without salt, but it works as something of a regulator to the speed of the yeast and it affects the texture of the dough. (And you can do it without the yeast. but then it's sourdough. (Water and flour though, I'm pretty sure those are really required))) Fat isn't required either, but in some doughs, it can help with the workability or flavor.

Try this: Mix yeast and a batch sized quantity of water. Nothing really happens, but the yeast (depending on the type you've added) will dissolve or break apart. Add some flour, about what you'd add in sugar. Mix it so that the flour is not in clumps.

If the water temperature is reasonable, the yeast will start to break down the carbohydrate in the flour into sugar, consume it, and start bubbling. Then add it to bread, as the yeast has been proofed.

Some yeasts don't require the proofing step (SAF red for one). It's perfectly fine to add to the dry ingredients. I like that stuff, super reliable and easy to use but despite being french, I've never seen it outside the states. Some yeasts are better for sweet breads (like panettone, cinnamon rolls, or others). Some yeasts come in little sachets just suck and are hard to work with, like the stuff I had in the cupboard pre-pandemic.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> awinter-py love the gantt charts</comment>