A look inside TSMC - <AUTHOR> https://www.economist.com/christmas-specials/2019/12/18/a-look-inside-the-factory-around-which-the-modern-world-turns <comment><USER2> [https://archive.is/NHfyj](https://archive.is/NHfyj)

</comment><comment><USER3> "Samsung announced at the Foundry Forum earlier this year that it plans on spending $116 billion over the next decade in an effort to develop the chip production capacity and expertise that will serve the needs of key players in the 5G, automotive, machine learning, blockchain, and high-performance computing markets."

From: [https://www.techspot.com/news/83331-samsung- pouring-116-bill...](https://www.techspot.com/news/83331-samsung- pouring-116-billion-towards-beating-tsmc-race.html)

</comment><comment><USER4> The article mentions it obliquely but fewer companies than ever can fab at the "edge." [1] And Intel has faltered somewhat.

I can't think of how there is going to be a new entrant to the market that competes with the current three's processes.

[1] [https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/technology_node#Leading_edge_tr...](https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/technology_node#Leading_edge_trend)

<comment><USER5> I can think of a few.

Unbundling the engineering model as the current system is highly integrated - do certain segments of the process better than the incumbents. This would be primarily a business model innovation, not an engineering one.

New architectures, as Intel have shown lately, their architecture isn't perfect. This requires a new set of design thinking from the ground up and challenging existing assumptions about Von Neumann architectures and instruction sets. Risc V gives some hope to this idea.

Non-silicon (Photonics, GaN, Diamond, Quantum, etc.) computing technology would require new skills with different materials that the incumbents don't possess. Still years away though.

Commodity EUV and further process simplification would greatly reduce the barrier to entry but requires new uninvented engineering technology and practices.

<comment><USER6> Risc V is made to be boring. It does nothing to "challeng[e] existing assumptions about Von Neumann architectures and instruction sets". It is also very unlikely to become the next high perf ISA for tons of reasons, it is more suited for embedded stuff.

<comment><USER5> Risc V doesn't touch on Von Neumann architectures. That could be addressed by tech like Memristors as an example but to put it lightly, they're not ready yet.

But the belief that to be a competitive fab house you have to churn out _high_ performance chips is in itself one of the existing unquestioned assumptions of chip manufacture which may not pan out in the longer term. The idea of the generic CPU may very well become seen as a luxurious, wasteful idea once Moore's law properly runs out of road in a few years. Specialization will breed new ISAs, even boring ones.

<comment><USER6> > The idea of the generic CPU may very well become seen as a luxurious, > wasteful idea once Moore's law properly runs out of road in a few years. > Specialization will breed new ISAs, even boring ones.

This is already the case and I suspect the current general structure will continue mostly unchanged: you will still need your general purpose high perf generic CPU for the mostly the same workloads we use them for today (and that's including to run legacy software), and for now there is kind of only one broad successful approach to design them (for mass produced things, at least). Then in embedded chips you can use basically anything, and you also have way less stable ISA in chips more dedicated to massively parallel compute.

Even with JIT you can not really multiply the basic GP CPU ISA ad infinitum, because for bulk system code JIT is not that viable (even if it is for big apps). Also, this is basically attempting to deport the stable interface problem in another layer, but you can not _necessarily_ remove all the features that made it possible to have a stable ISA, given tons of them are also needed for perfs. And they are since a very long time. So for even just semi-fast general purpose CPUs, I suspect the race is mostly over (hypothesis: higher level computer topology unchanged -- if you switch to e.g. chip stacking, things could change more)

For all the other cases, and you are right they are also massively important, things will continue to evolve in tons of directions.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> When I read the title, I was actually hoping for a video tour of one of their fully automated 300mm Fabs.

Unfortunately it seems that video material of cutting edge fabs on the web is scarce, and what is available does not really show the fab as a whole, but only details instead.

Well, I guess everybody is afraid of giving away IP...

Some examples:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inoOAOOMjHo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inoOAOOMjHo)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaASEMAMCNM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaASEMAMCNM)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_VIgU1hPok](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_VIgU1hPok)

Research labs

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_PCQAJzHj8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_PCQAJzHj8)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttD7JOwpNXo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttD7JOwpNXo)

</comment><comment><USER8> One thing I don't understand is why fabs got uprooted from USA. There doesn't seem to be cost savings if you try to offshore a multi-billion dollar fab because labor is not the main cost. So fab in China/Taiwan/USA should cost more or less same money to run.

<comment><USER9> Environment protection laws. They all reject quite a lotbof nasty chemicals.

We can filter or recycle them but it cost a lot at scale. This is an open secret in EE schools.

<comment><USER8> I'm doubtful Taiwan has such loose laws that would make up the cost difference.

<comment><USER10> Indeed, running a public company in Taiwan is known not to be a pleasant thing.

Taiwan government is very activist when it comes to henpecking corporations on "governance standards." Boards of a lot of important companies are de-facto micromanaged by the state.

A stark contrast to the US, where laxity on that front is negated by mindbogglingly complex securities regulations.

For US, you can still play your game, just pay enough for lawyers. For Taiwan, not so much. Choose your poison.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> The article ended right when it promised to get interesting.

It set up the stage with the construction of the fab, the market, the international tension -- and then nothing.

I would've really loved some insight about what the international influences mean for day to day operation, some technical challenges etc.

(Or this would be the perfect setup for a murder mystery. One of the key engineers is found dead, and her ex-boyfriend, US and Chinese spies all could have a hand in it. My fantasy running wild again... :D )

</comment><comment><USER12> I really found TSMC inspiring, the level of technology reached is amazing.

I only wish an effort from Europe to bring this expertise also in Europe.

<comment><USER13> Two European companies are mentioned as producing critical hardware for the process.

<comment><USER12> And I am quite happy.

But still there is a huge difference between being a provider of technology and actually using that technology.

<comment><USER14> Disclaimer: I've worked in several semiconductor companies mentioned in this article as hardware guy.

Actually it's quite liberating to be the provider of technology. You control the whole market. Specially true for some of the companies which are virtual monopolies (over 95% of the market is owned by them). In EUV side, which is the future (happening now), some vendors are the only option. Fabs can pressure them, of course, but at the end of the day they are the only vendors available. I find it quite funny, on one hand TSMC is one of those "jump? Where and how high" kind of customer but OTOH there is no one else they can turn to. I find this kind of relationship quite funny and unique. I am not aware of any other industry where the vendor has this much power. All because they are the only supplier. Maybe in defense?

<comment><USER12> Can you share more?

I would love to know better this kind of dynamics.

Why TSMC or other fabs don't develop the same technology in house? How the technology is protected? Why there are not other competitors?

Moreover, what that means from the company point of view? I guess there is not a big push to innovate, isn't it?

<comment><USER15> Developing a state of the art wafer scanner for EUV lithography would probably take decades, many billions of dollars (not tens but more likely closer to $100B), violate thousands of patents and the end result would 100% be inferior to what the entrenched players (which for EUV lithography is de facto only a single company, ASML) have on offer today, which means it would actually put you at a competitive disadvantage as a foundry, compared to competitors that just buy the state of the art machines. Add to that it already takes huge effort and investment to run a fab, semiconductor manufacturing isn't a process where you just get some gear, then press a button and wait until the chips roll out. It takes billions and months to years to just switch to a new process node. That's TSMC's core business: using the tools to make chips, not make the tools themselves, and that's already extremely hard. It's not a coincidence there are basically only 3 big players left that can compete at the most advanced process nodes.

Development on ASML NXE EUV scanners started ~20 years ago and only since very recently are they being used for high volume production. There is literally zero chance anyone would be able to profitably build the same thing from scratch again, at least not unless they find some radically different way to make semiconductors.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> A look inside without a single photo ...

<comment> 0-_-0 5 nm is not visible to the naked eye

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> TSMC = 80% foreign investment. its hardly Taiwanese at this point...

<comment><USER18> TSMC is a Taiwanese company.

The people in the C-suite are Taiwanese.

The fabs are in Taiwan. The people who operate the fabs are in Taiwan.

The people who do the R&D for all the processes live in Taiwan. The people who create the Intellectual Property live in Taiwan.

Analogously, many decades ago Mitsubishi Group, a Japanese company, bought Rockefeller Center. Ha ha. Good luck with that. If things didn't work out it's not like they could disassemble 30 Rock and put it on a boat to Japan. Unsurprisingly they no longer own it.

It's not like before WWII when the Japanese bought one of the elevated subway lines in NYC and disassembled it for steel and shipped it back home to build battleships.

TSMC's assets are in fabs that are difficult to disassemble without great expense. And the other important assets go home every night. "Foreign investment" isn't able to spirit them out of the country.

TSMC is a Taiwanese company. Who gives a fuck what some bookkeeping entries in some computer ledgers say about "foreign investment".

<comment><USER19> Sooner or later TSMC will build next-gen R&D facilities and fabs. Shareholders will be able to vote for the new locations.

<comment><USER20> Shareholders of such things are sometimes proxies for the true powers hidden behind. Money is not a democracy. There are national interests at stake here, and then I'm not talking about Taiwan's national interest.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> lol, nobody who gets a look inside lives to tell the tale :/

</comment><comment><USER22> "Balanced on a 5nm point, the world could fall either way."</comment>


Show HN: Modular (serverless) property scraper in Rust with notifications - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/floschnell/properwatcher <comment><USER2> Good job Flo, any particular reason you used Rust? Some years ago I wrote the same thing [0] in Python which was also automatically applying to the flats that fit a certain criteria. I then had to scale it up Germany wide for Bayerische Rundfunk and Spiegel Online which resulted in a nice little study [1]. The issue I had with lambdas is that the IP's where blacklisted and one had to solve a captcha to get to the site. Is it still the case? Any way, good job. I'm happy to see we kinda took the same path for the design decisions, good times. :)

[0] [https://funnybretzel.com/datamining-a-flat-in- munich/](https://funnybretzel.com/datamining-a-flat-in-munich/) [1] [https://www.hanna-und-ismail.de/](https://www.hanna-und-ismail.de/)

<comment><AUTHOR> Hey thank you for your response and the kind words. Very interesting reads you referenced! Your article confirms on a big scale, what a few friends have been reporting on individual basis :(. I still want to read the discussion on HN that you referred to from your blog post ... couldn't find your crawler's source code, did you publish that somewhere? To answer your questions, I chose Rust, because of two reasons mainly: 1\. I knew it was popular and I wanted to learn it. Also typical benefits of the language itself. 2\. Performance. I wanted to use query selectors for scraping and I knew that Rust was at the core of Firefox' Quantum Engine. Kuchiki, the DOM manipulation library that I use, builds on top of html5ever and cssparser, both used in Servo (Firefox). Also, crawlers can run in parallel and thus make use of multiple cores. So far I didn't have any issues with the lambda IPs. Maybe it's because I use the Frankfurt region. Or maybe because more and more business is happening serverless (or in AWS in general) these days and blocking those IPs without losing business integration is not feasible anymore. I would like to add a filter module that just checks hard facts like prices, squaremeters and rents. However, for now it is enough or even gives more fine grained control, to use the filters on the property sites directly and then scrape the specific results pages. For the sites I have seen so far, the filter were always encoded in the URL. Sending automatic replies is a very neat feature. What currently scares me off a bit, is that it would need to be implemented for the different portals individually.</comment></comment>


Mountains of food wasted as coronavirus scrambles supply chain - <AUTHOR> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/us-coronavirus-outbreak-agriculture-food-supply-waste <comment><USER2> Here's a twitter thread with more detail about dairy in Canada: [https://twitter.com/FreshAirFarmer/status/124787620556452659...](https://twitter.com/FreshAirFarmer/status/1247876205564526593)</comment>


We have to wake up: factory farms are breeding grounds for pandemics - <AUTHOR> https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/20/factory-farms-pandemic-risk-covid-animal-human-health <comment><USER2> This is crap, it's extensive farming that's the problem.

How could you think a 'factory' where all variable are measured and industrialised is worse than small hold farmers who run animals over large areas mixed with wildlife?

Could you image small hold farmers being able to do random testing at appropriate intervals compared to a factory with $100 million on the line.

[https://thebreakthrough.org/issues/food/zoonosis](https://thebreakthrough.org/issues/food/zoonosis)

<comment><USER3> >>>It is on chicken factory farms that we have most frequently found viruses that have mutated from a form found only in animals into a form that harms humans.

That pretty much proves your point of small farms not testing.

Fortunately or unfortunately when there is a breakout in a large factory farm and it gets reported, the policy in my area is for a total cull of all birds, including small farms like mine.

I raise chickens on my small farm and stand to lose thousands of dollars and six months of egg production when not if the next cull occurs.

I believe there is some value in having a greater variety of genetics in livestock to prevent monoculture outbreaks but the truth is it only takes one positive test of one bird regardless of how diverse a flock is and every bird within 100 miles is culled, even the ones that might be immune.

On a side note: I think attacking farmers of any type during the current crisis is not smart, the food they(We) are currently producing on large and small farms is going to be needed badly in the comming months when the long term negative effects of the economic shutdown appear....Winter is comming!!</comment></comment>


Why do we use capacitors in parallel with DC motors? - <AUTHOR> https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/490934/why-do-we-use-capacitors-in-parallel-with-dc-motors <comment><AUTHOR> Excerpts:

"Generally a 0.01~0.1uF capacitor is wired across brushed DC motors to reduce radio frequency EMI caused by arcing between the brushes and commutator. Sometimes two capacitors are wired in series, with the center connection going to the case to 'ground' it at RF frequencies.

For best effect the capacitor(s) should be placed on or inside the motor. In this case a capacitor has been included on the driver board. This makes it less effective at higher frequencies because the wires from the board to the motor will still be able to radiate EMI. Still it's better than nothing, and may prevent misoperation due to interference from an unsuppressed motor getting into the driver and input wiring."

And:

"The capacitor shunts (or "absorbs") the high frequency spikes from the commutation and prevents damage to the driver chips.

A further factor not clear from the schematic is that snubber diodes should be used to prevent inductive kick-back from the motor's inductance causing damage to the driver's output transistors. While the diodes protect the driver, the capacitors take the "edges" off the current spikes and help reduce EMI, etc."</comment>


TreeSheets: Free Form Data Organizer - <AUTHOR> http://strlen.com/treesheets/ <comment><USER2> Author here, AMA. Just discovered this is on hn again, it has been on here at least once before:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11247372](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11247372)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13578662](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13578662)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3394418](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3394418)

But hey, I don't mind the attention :)

<comment><USER3> Hey, thanks for open sourcing TreeSheets. I forked it[1] some time ago to add localization support (though I also reorganized the code a fair bit in preparation for some other changes I was planning). It's a very cool project, pretty easy-to-understand codebase by virtue of being very simple.

1\. [https://github.com/alpha123/treesheets](https://github.com/alpha123/treesheets)

<comment><USER2> Thanks!

The main code base also gained localization support since your fork :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> TreeSheets (native cross-platform app based on wxWidgets) is great and in need of new contributors.

For non-linear organizing on iOS, the indie app MindScope ([https://www.macstories.net/reviews/mindscope- review/](https://www.macstories.net/reviews/mindscope-review/)) is uniquely fast for brainstorming and re-factoring visual layout, before exporting an outline to another tool. A single node can be linked from more than one location in the hierarchy.

</comment><comment><USER5> I've been using TreeSheets for a long time now and, though occasionally I do run into limitations I find it generally to be on "the right scale" for nearly all of my needs.

It's small enough that it starts really fast. Simple enough that I can write, organise, and curate what little I have to deal with quickly enough that I don't give up or get interrupted midstream. And it works on most of the platforms I use. If it were available for my iPad, I'd buy it but I can totally understand not wanting to deal the iTunes store.

<comment><USER2> What's holding back a mobile port is 2 things: 1) It's written in wxWidgets, which has an unfinished iOS port and no Android port. Even if these ever get finished, mapping the UI 1:1 would probably make for a really bad mobile app, and would have to be adapted specifically for mobile. An alternative route is to rewrite the UI in Qt or OpenGL or something, but that's a huge amount of work. 2) It would need support for cloud storage.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Looks beautiful but seems to be only for trees which you can sort of do just by indenting in a text editor. I sometimes want to organize things as a DAG and that's where indenting text starts to fail.

I wish there was a very general purpose graph editing and visualizing tool that could be as general purpose as spreadsheets.

<comment><USER7> Isn't something like a DAG doable by indenting in a text editor? Why not?

<comment><USER8> I can't visualize how you would represent a node with multiple inbound edges in text, but it could be because I'm only halfway through my first coffee. Can you demonstrate in a comment box?

<comment><USER9> Graphviz's "dot" language supports this.

<comment><USER10> I think the confusion is that it sounded like the idea was without repetition.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> As someone who spent way too much time obsessing over this stuff, this is awesome and very promising.

One reason I'm not happy with traditional spreadsheets is that there's no non- hackish way to implement "tagging" (as in, hashtagging) a given row. You can create a "tag" column for storing "tag strings" (all the tags that have been applied to this row, delimited by say comma) and then filter by instr or some regex, but it's inconvenient.

Haven't fully checked out the features of TreeSheets yet but I imagine it would be quite suited for this purpose? Is it possible to do a search for all the rows whose 'tag' column's value includes as a member (not: contains as a substring) a particular tag?

<comment><USER2> It's quite flexible in how you structure your data, so besides rows and columns, "tags" can be children or parents. It even has an explicit tagging feature where you define tags that can easily be applied. See also the "Hierarchy Swap" feature as a powerful tagging related feature.

On the downside, the built-in search is purely textual, not structural, so your example query can't be done. Structural queries would be an awesome addition though.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> This is pretty amazing. I use a combination of OneNote and MindNode across my machines/tablets (except on Windows, where I have no mind mapping solution) and I've often wanted something that could merge tabular and tree formats.

The Mac version is a little clunky (and yet, it's wxWidgets), but works. The file format is... probably my only concern, but there is XML export.

<comment><USER2> A lot of UI issues on the Mac are indeed being held back by wxWidgets.

The file format is documented and open source, but it is binary for speed and compactness (especially since it may contain images).

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Oh this piques my curiosity, big time!

There is a large gap in software for non-linear thinking/sketching. It's not obvious for tasks that require linear thinking, like programming, but when you are trying to explore solutions in an fuzzy problem space, something along the lines of TreeSheets is certainly useful.

</comment><comment><USER14> I'm a big fan of TreeSheets and very happy that Wouter decided to open source it. It gives some hope for an Android port ...

<comment><USER2> Thanks! An Android port requires either wxWidgets to be ported to Android (which doesn't exist yet), or TreeSheets to be rewritten to not depend on wxWidgets but something else (Qt? OpenGL?). These are both huge undertakings.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Very cool! If I had found this a year ago or so I could have saved myself a lot of work, I built something similar but with a web front end (which also helps to make it easier to collaborate on a project). We use this in the run- up to a technical due diligence to organize all the information and to prevent duplicate efforts.

<comment><USER16> That sounds interesting! Have you considered open sourcing your work?

I've been working on similar things on and off for a long time (specifically a sort of meld between Workflowy and spreadsheets, but supporting DAGs), but it takes significant effort to reach a stage where tools are useful and reliable...

<comment><USER15> > Have you considered open sourcing your work?

It's _barely_ good enough to do our own work with and highly specific to the application so no, it will not be open sourced.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> If that would support synchronsation, i'd look like the ulitmate personal wiki. Unfortunatly, syncronisation is hard.

<comment><USER2> Can you be more exact what you mean by synchronization?

Currently, you can save your TreeSheets file in, say, DropBox, have it open on multiple computers, and any save will automatically reload the document on other computers (if they don't have unsaved changes, otherwise it will ask).

<comment><USER18> What happens in case of conflicts? I'm always interested to learn how applications deal with that

<comment><USER2> TreeSheets currently doesn't merge. If the file was modified in 2 locations without being saved first, the user has to choose which to keep. Not that this is mostly intended for single-users scenarios where typically a user edits on one computer at a time :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Ah nice. I've been looking for an offline desktop app where I could collect all the data that's needed to complete official/govt forms, like my tax and health cover info. Make/model/yr of purchase of vehicles, dates I moved house, purchase dates for various things.

Will check it out.

</comment><comment><USER20> > The ultimate replacement for spreadsheets

That's a lofty claim, might want to make it more specific to thought mapping.

Other than that looks cool, will try it out when I'm home. What's the GUI framework, out of curiousity?

<comment><USER21> Does it support formulas?

<comment><USER2> The current ability to compute values is not quite the same as formulas in a spreadsheet (which hide "behind" cells), this is meant more as a visual programming language where the operators are part of your data.

Example: [http://strlen.com/treesheets/docs/images/screenshots/screens...](http://strlen.com/treesheets/docs/images/screenshots/screenshot_sales.png)

But yes, I must admit, that part is very unfinished.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Very interesting, but still a bit rough to be self-claimed "The ultimate replacement for spreadsheets, mind mappers, outliners, PIMs, text editors and small databases."

Looks interesting, wish luck

</comment><comment><USER23> Can this export to org-mode format?

</comment><comment><USER24> Looks promising. Why is it better off not using HTML/Js?

<comment><USER12> Because there are still plenty of people (myself included) who prefer native apps. Thankfully :)

<comment><USER15> Hard to make those multi-user.

<comment><USER12> That has zero import on the underlying platform, really. There are plenty of native multi-user apps. Some of the earliest collaborative tools (like Collabra Share and NetMeeting) were native apps.

And you might be familiar with multiplayer games like Quake :)

<comment><USER15> Yes, but then it will need a server side component and an actual server (unless you set it up as some kind of peer to peer thing).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> The Ubuntu download link ends in 404 page.

<comment><USER5> If you are running a recent version of Ubuntu it's available from the standard repositories.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> If the visualization side isn't as important to you, Airtable is a great tool for managing structured relational data.

[https://airtable.com/](https://airtable.com/)</comment>


Canary Mail – Smart Email Client for Mac and iOS with PGP Support - <AUTHOR> https://canarymail.io/?mwr=1593-66a46e38 <comment><USER2> This looks like a decent mail client and making PGP more accessible I think is an admirable goal but I wish designers would stop patting themselves on the back...

"Simple. Secure. Stunning." is right up there with all these "show hn" that start with "beautiful".

Let social proof speak for itself. Show a quote from a major publication calling you stunning. Don't call yourself stunning. I bet you it is more effective that way.

Edit: the thought occurred to me just now, imagine if in online dating profiles someone started their profile with a self-proclaimed "Handsome and sexy"... would you go out with that person? Then again, I haven't been d ating in 10 years, maybe it's changed.

<comment><USER3> I don't think the comparison works. Choosing the words Simple. Secure. Stunning may or may not accurately describe what the application may be, but it clearly describes the priorities of the designers of the application.

Not all applications consider looking Stunning an important goal. These 3 words tell me that the application designers consider security, ease of use, and good looks as their major priorities while designing the application.

A person self proclaiming that they are sexy and handsome is either lying (if they are not) or they are boasting about their genes, which is not something today's society considers boast worthy.

<comment><USER2> > I don't think the comparison works. Choosing the words Simple. Secure. > Stunning may or may not accurately describe what the application may be, but > it clearly describes the priorities of the designers of the application.

I can see that. I don't think I'd have an issue if this was their mission statement and plastered all over their office walls as something aspirational. But that's not how it is being used here.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I keep trying these (Canary, Polymail, Spark, Airmail), and they all disappoint in some way, and I always end up going back to trusty old Apple Mail.

One big point for me: Except for Airmail, none of the new "minimalist" mail apps do plaintext. They all force you to send as HTML. I would love for "rich" email to work, but it's not nice the way current clients do it. In particular, I think it's incredibly presumptuous for the sender to specify which _font_ the recipient should read the text in.

My favourite mail client ever was Sparrow, until Google killed it.

<comment><USER5> I feel like you're me. I've the exact same experiences and I keep trying something else but they fall flat and often miss some basic (important) features. Always going back to Apple mail.

<comment><USER4> Heh. Did you try Airmail? That's the only one that I liked.

The only reason I'm not using it today is that I was using the beta, and at one point they did a lot of frequent bugfix releases, and each new release started to require that you set up all your settings (mail accounts etc.) from scratch. I got tired of it and abandoned the thing.

I'm sure it's better now, I just haven't felt like going through all the steps again yet. Airmail does plaintext email, too.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> That moment when I have to go to Product Hunt to see screenshots of your app because apparently they aren't important enough to put on your landing page. Why do so many app landing pages leave out screenshots?

<comment><USER7> They have screenshots. 30% of the landing page is that. But the screenshots they choose are the on-boarding/startup screens.

Choose any of the other sub-pages (from PRIVACY | AI | TRACKING | SANITIZER | SNOOZE | SEARCH) and you see other screenshots.

The on-boarding screenshots are a bad choice for the landing page.

<comment><USER8> I had to switch to another computer to see screenshots, I couldn't see them either from Chromium or iCab under iOS 10. Whatever fancy stuff they're trying to do on their site comes with a significant(ly irritating) browser compatibility cost. The iOS screens themselves are also pretty mediocre. I do not think stuffing them into that iPhone frame is at all helpful in making them informative, and they don't cover a lot of important basic questions I have. I guess I'm supposed to go to one of the linked other sites for more information but I consider that a significant fail in a product, IMHO their own web page should be the authoritative source that can answer most of my questions about core basics of specs and interface.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I want this to be awesome... but I'm also terrified of applications that tell me they are secure with no proof. Can you provide some additional information to quell my fears?

Perhaps information on a third party auditor?

<comment><AUTHOR> I completely agree, design so often disguise missing security. I want this to be good but am lacking a security audit or open source.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> When the first tab on your website is "Privacy", don't make "Read notifications" the default.

From the http request you're taking all kinds of metadata to your server. I don't want to add my PGP key in here to check, but I assume this is default for PGP messages too?

</comment><comment><USER8> I regret to say it but I loathe their website. That sort of ultra-sparse modernist UI, where text and links are visually indistinguishable, informational text is spartan, and images are minimal and compressed is not helpful. Having to download and test a program or go read reviews to get a basic sense of UI is off putting. For software where UI is in fact a major part of the value offering, that's particularly concerning.

Having said that, sometimes this can be overcome by virtue of a killer app, and Canary Mail may have one in the form of PGP for iOS. For whatever reason despite iOS's strong overall security narrative and use by people concerned about security, and despite native S/MIME being available since IIRC iOS 5.0, there has been a curious lack of PGP availability in any alternate iOS mail client. I say curious because email clients are one of those areas where it is very hard to get people away from the overall functional native one, so uncovered features that a niche user base will find extremely compelling matter more then in other kinds of software. Lack of PGP with iOS has network effects in that these days email that can only be read via a PC OS and is unreadable on mobile is pretty hard to accept. If Canary has no utterly breaking flaws then PGP support would make me at least take a hard look, including buying a copy purely for evaluation purposes whether I ultimately use it or not.

</comment><comment><USER11> Interested in the read tracking and in a nice email client that will help me get through my backlog. Installed and configured my main mail account.

Advanced account settings was prefilled with almost-right information, which legit helps, but the labels only appear when the fields are empty, so I had to delete the prefilled info to see which ones needed to be changed.

Waiting on the animation between messages got old halfway through the first time, so I looked around in preferences for a way to shorten or turn it off. No luck, but in toggling the option to display or not display the message pane, I ended up with a window that consisted of disconnected segments of the top of each of the three panes. Quit was necessary to restore.

Did a quick search to collect a bunch of github messages from one project and delete them. Seven threads from my inbox and one from my archive were included. Not what I meant, no obvious way to change, but oh well I can live with deleting that one too. Right pane showed eight threads, gave bulk option to delete. Deleted, but then the right pane remained, the search now showed more entries, seemingly including both the now-gone inbox entries plus all the messages I'd just trashed in the trash.

Processing a few more messages, I ended up with the message pane showing only a ~20 px sliver of each message. Scroll bar still behaved as though the whole message was visible. Quit was again required to fix.

I'm on the mailing list, so hopefully I'll hear about future bug fix releases, but the app's too buggy in five min of use to even think about making it a daily thing as is.

<comment><USER12> _> so I had to delete the prefilled info to see which ones needed to be changed._

Gah! What an anti-pattern!

Total OT sidebar, but UX has gone through so much regression in the last decade I'm starting to view it as confirmation of the cyclical theory of history: flat UI, tiny thin fonts, washed out colors, material design removing differences between tabs, labels, buttons and badges, etc.

Maybe it's just temporary insanity, but holy cow things have gotten bad.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> At this point, I'm just happy there is a new email client that isn't storing anything on the third party servers. Good for Canary and I'll give it a try.

<comment><USER12> Email client economics are tough, you need some sort of service-like revenue associated with it or you sell your customers data in order to have a sustainable business.

I hope canary has something non-evil figured out, the client looks nice.

<comment><USER14> ...or you could just sell the software? That's how we used to do it in the Olden Days.

<comment><USER12> That model only worked when people would buy your new software every year. Now a lot of software is good enough, and maybe your competition is even free, and the revenue dries up.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> My kingdom for an email client that works well with gmail, works offline, is fast, supports editing in an external editor and lets me quickly skim email.

<comment><USER16> Mutt?

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> Exciting. Where's the source?

<comment><USER18> Please read the website a bit better! "SECURE EMAIL CLIENT FOR MAC AND IPHONE"

It's a secure e-mail client, so they can't release the source! /s

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> Airmail is quite ok but still far from Sparrow usability and performance.

Airmail hangs several seconds on startup doing god-knows-what.

<comment><USER20> i miss sparrow! :/

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> How does read-tracking work (a feature I don't even want) with a client-only email solution like this?

<comment><USER22> Making an assumption from the FAQ.

When you send the email it generates a unique hash it places a tracking pixel (1x1 transparent gif image) served off a canary mail server into the email with that hash. For a period your client queries them for the a yes/no on if that tracking pixel with the hash has been downloaded.

That is typically how email marketing platforms do it, and it appears to be consistent with the FAQ.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> Does it work offline, like when I'm on the subway or a plane?

</comment><comment><USER24> The website looks like an ARG for the next Halo game.

</comment><comment><USER25> and like always , everything is for iOS , like other OS doesnt exists... great

</comment><comment><USER26> Subjective, but I found the landing page design off putting when viewed on my iPhone</comment>


Programming prodigy passes away at 16 - <AUTHOR> http://digitallife.today.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/14/10158059-programming-prodigy-passes-away-at-16-hear-her-philosophy-of-life <comment><USER3> This thread and a the story make me equally sad.

The thread because this is one of the most hateful and ugly threads I've ever seen on HN. A thread like this would be literally unthinkable a year or more ago, and now I'm not even surprised it is here.

The story because it is about the death of a person that could easily be a role model for a large number of young children, but females especially in third world - and other - countries.

Those writing from their comfy first world lives that feel the need to point out how 'privileged' this girl was and belittle her achievements have to stop and think - excellent advice from elsewhere in this thread - before they continue to write.

The internet has a long memory. Being insensitive to the death of any child makes you look ugly, stupid and negative in ways that I find hard to describe.

Whatever your motivation, jealousy, a general misunderstanding of the station of women in many third world countries or any other thing that might have prompted you to write what you wrote here: Let me tell you straight from the heart that I think this girl was everything you in particular should aspire to be.

Smart, articulate, compassionate and gifted. The fact that she may or may not have been a member of a family of some standing in Pakistan does not diminish her achievements.

More often than not those that are born into positions of wealth or with other so called advantages squander their fortunes and end up with less than their parents left them with. That's an all too common story.

This girl took what little life she had and grasped it with both hands, then made the best of it. I hope that when my time comes I'll be able to say I did the same.

<comment><USER4> > _The thread because this is one of the most hateful and ugly threads I've > ever seen on HN. A thread like this would be literally unthinkable a year or > more ago, and now I'm not even surprised it is here._

I agree with you on this point a thousand times. What is going on with this community? In general I like HN, but there's a real trend brewing when it comes to gender-related articles. And it's not pretty.

HN regularly churns out some of the most biased, vitriolic and short-sighted commentary when it comes to women that I've ever seen in any online community.

Question is, what can we do to counteract it?

[EDIT: as expected, I'm being downvoted. Good riddance, HN.]

<comment><USER5> >HN regularly churns out some of the most biased, vitriolic and short-sighted commentary when it comes to women that I've ever seen in any online community.

I really don't see that at all. There might be some implied sexism, and perhaps occasionally overt sexism, but it's nothing like what you see on other parts of the Internet. I've seldom read a top-rated comment on HN and thought, "wow, that's really sexist." Sure, they exist at the bottom of the page, but there isn't much we can do about that.

Do you have a discussion in mind that makes you feel that way? I'd like to see an example of what you consider "biased, vitriolic, and short-sighted commentary when it comes to women."

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I'm going to refrain from commenting on her abilities. One problem I have with "X accomplished person passed away" on the internet is that a free-for-all seems to start, wherein everyone feels qualified to judge that person's accomplishments from behind a monitor. Steve Jobs, whoever, it might seem unfair that just because someone died that the "unworthy" things they did get celebrated. I disagree.

What _did_ strike me as particularly relevant for HN and the drive to succeed was the following quotation from an earlier article on her life, where the author so kindly informed her that she was no longer the "youngest MCP in the world":

 _"This is the first time I've seen this story. But I must say that I'm really happy to have read it. This is exactly what I had been wishing for ever since I got to bring laurels for my country. I am very glad to see that people are following what I did and have succeeded in beating me. I don't know whether you've heard or not but a boy, named Bilal, from Gujranwala in Pakistan also became a Microsoft Certified Professional at the age of nine. I would say that the other youngsters should follow suit, thereby convincing the people to take us kids seriously. Our generation is very talented and so should be promoted."_ [1]

A lot of people are brought here by the will to do Something Great, so much so that we get caught up in whether or not credit is given rightly, whether we'll get it, whether the whole world of doing Great Things is fair (it's not). It was this perspective of humility in the face of eventually being passed up, which is so rare in externally validated precocious children, that I found inspiring.

[1] <http://www.geekwire.com/2011/arfa>

<comment><USER7> Thank you for this. We are celebrating the life / lamenting the death of the _person_ to happened to accomplish something notable, not the point- accomplishment itself (which will be duplicated/eclipsed).

She had class and a sense of perspective well beyond her years, and which many people fail to achieve over much longer lives.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> I remember reading about this girl years ago. Like some of the other commenters I wasn't that surprised about her MSFT certification. I mean even a 10-year old can geek out on that kind of stuff, it wasn't that notable.

However I just noticed this quote from her, which is so much more remarkable for a 10-year old:

"If you want to do something big in your life, you must remember that shyness is only the mind," she said. "If you think shy, you act shy. If you think confident you act confident. Therefore never let shyness conquer your mind."

To me that's the amazing part of her story, and something she can teach others about forever.

<comment><USER9> When I was young (8-9 years old) everyone - peers, teachers, and parents - told me to stop being so outspoken. "Think before you speak" was drilled into me for years, continuously. It was probably the worst advice I have ever received.

<comment><USER10> "Think before you speak" is always good advice. The "confidence of the mind" referred above does not mean that you should shit out everything that pops in your head.

<comment><USER9> "Think before you speak" makes it very difficult to hold a normal conversation. Of course I'm not anti-thinking but it's very difficult to express yourself (in most media, but especially talking) if you hesitate constantly.

If you're having trouble speaking well, the solution probably isn't to speak slower, but to learn over time how to speak better at-speed.

<comment><USER11> > _"Of course I'm not anti-thinking but it's very difficult to express > yourself (in most media, but especially talking) if you hesitate > constantly."_

I vehemently disagree - some of my most respected people in life pause frequently while speaking, and will directly ask for a moment when questioned about something, to collect their thoughts. I give these people's words incredible weight in my life not just because I respect them as people, but knowing that what they're telling me is well considered instead of knee-jerk.

I think the social expectation of having an answer at the drop of a hat on _anything_ is pretty unfortunate, and makes us all a little bit dumber.

<comment><USER12> That's why I like to type my responses, because they don't see it anyway until I press enter or whatever.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I'm a long-time HN member and I'm surprised at some of the comments here. Probably she wasn't a prodigy, also probably she wasn't a genius. Though she had every possibly trait that must have made her a genius later in her life.

Still, she was very intelligent, very sweet and a very caring kid. I met her and also her dad around 2005.

Also, she came from a very humble background and when I met her, her father was travelling with her using public transport (I know this because I did drop her and her father few times).

That having been said, given where she came from, she did few things in her 16 years of life that I know may people cannot. RIP.

</comment><comment><USER14> Firstly,I think the real reason why the girl became a media celebrity was not her Microsoft exam credentials or programming ability. It was that she came out as a really smart, intelligent,sweet, eloquent and mature person in every interview she gave after hitting the headlines for being invited by Bill Gates. I wish some of these interviews had subtitles so you could have a better understanding of what I mean. For example when asked(at the age of nine years)what her really outstanding achievement was, she replied that it was her ability to gift a computer lab to a girls school of her native village(after winning awards and grants etc). When asked what she wanted to do next, she said she would like to start "digicon" valley in Pakistan like silicon valley in US. And may more like that.

Secondly, she didn't belong to elite class at all. Her father is a retired Army officer, which means essentially middle class. She was transferred to a better/elite School only after becoming a celebrity.

Here is one interview which is entirely in English: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCUbRsab6iQ&feature=relat...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCUbRsab6iQ&feature=related)

</comment><comment><USER15> Sure being an "MCP" in the HN circle is absolutely meaningless and doesn't warrant the title "programming prodigy", but that's not the point of this article. The point is that this was a girl who came from a third world country where women are not treated as well as men are in the West, and made it to the Redmond campus based on her own ambition and drive to do something for herself.

<comment><USER16> > and made it to the Redmond campus based on her own ambition and drive to do > something for herself.

Sorry but no. Again, I don't want to belittle her accomplishments - it's certainly a feat for any girl or boy her age to be even able to put a very simple application together, but she came from a very wealthy Pakistani family. Saying that she made it to Redmond _out of her own ambition and drive_ is spitting in the face of all her not so privileged compatriots who are struggling to do the same.

<comment><USER17> I know privileged and smart 30 year olds for whom getting a real job or moving out of the house would be a major major accomplishment. This girl was 10.

Writing off her accomplishments due to privilege is unfair.

<comment><USER16> You know sons and daughters of multi-milionairs having problem finding a job and moving out of the house?

<comment><USER18> I know several, in fact. It's fairly common result of rich parents spoiling their kids.

<comment><USER4> Agreed. Even here in the good old Bay Area there are quite a few trust fund kids with zero work ethic, little motivation and no desire to ever work because their parents will let them ride the money indefinitely. Very sad.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> There's definitely a life lesson in her tragedy that's getting lost amongst folks arguing whether or not she was a true prodigy.

It seems clear that she had emotional intelligence above and beyond analytical. That should be enough.

I feel terrible for her parents. Burying a child has to be the hardest thing in the world.

</comment><comment><USER20> I remember when the stories about Afra getting certified came out years ago. Regardless of some comments on HN about her accomplishments being over-hyped, I think we can all agree that she had a bright future and her death is tragic.

</comment><comment><USER21> MCP at 9 and got to meet Bill Gates? Wow! That is a great accomplishment. I'm almost 30 and I have not done either of those things!

What a great quote, too. She seemed to have a great outlook. Rest in Peace.

<comment><USER22> Done that, no biggie there.

What's most important about her was not her professional certification. When others younger than her got certified, instead of seeing competition, she saw company. Of the grants she received, she donated a computer lab to a girls school. She was very mature and articulate. I may disagree with her tastes in programming languages and operating systems, but I can recognize a great person when I see one.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> Totally shocked that a community full of Aspies is having a hard time mustering sympathy for this girl and instead have to pedantically inform the Internet that that's not really programming and what's the big deal anyway I did this when I was 12 in between stimming sessions and telling my parents every species of dinosaur.

</comment><comment><USER24> I don't know quite what Pakistan's cultural norms are, but I suspect that being female, the "youngest MCP" thing may have been even that much more remarkable.

<comment><USER15> Keep in mind Pakistan had a female prime minister many years ago.

<comment><USER4> Don't forget that that same prime minister was brutally assassinated when she tried to return to her country. And she was kicked out forcibly, had to live in exile for many years. A remarkable woman. The movie "Bhutto" about her life is well worth seeing.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benazir_Bhutto>

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> _"If you want to do something big in your life, you must remember that shyness is only the mind," she said. "If you think shy, you act shy. If you think confident you act confident. Therefore never let shyness conquer your mind."_

Pretty close to my motto: "What Would You Do If You Were Not Afraid?".

Taken from "Who Moved My Cheese?" by Dr. Spencer Johnsson.

</comment><comment><USER26> I hate to be that guy, but if she's to be labelled a "programming prodigy", what did she actually program?

<comment><USER27> She was the youngest Microsoft Certified Professional in history at age 9. Her genius can be better appreciated in a geographical context. Pakistan has a non-existent culture of Start ups and original products. Thinking out of the box can sometimes even become a Taboo. The support system for doing a start up, building a product or even meaningful contribution to a real-world project , especially at her age simply does not exist. It's therefore not a wonder that she did not produce anything you can measure by your paradigm of a 'Programmer Prodigy'. Passing the MS Certification at her tender age was reflective of her genius. That she wasn't able to translate that into a contribution to a project that had demonstrable external value is irrelevant simply because the cultural and geographical limitations rendered her unable to do so.

<comment><USER28> Are you sure? I mean, yes, this goes for the become an mscp at 9 in Pakistan (which is harder than elsewhere), but she got such a large amount of media attention and I think her father is some kind of big shot in Pakistan as well. It sounds like she was able enough despite the limitations you mention, she just didn't do it?

<comment><USER27> Look, wealth of family is just one very minute side of it. To actually translate your programming skills into an actual product, or startup or contribute to a real-world project, you need a lot more than that. You need mentors, you need awareness, you need tangible inspirations around you, ones that you can learn from and follow, you need advice, you need peers that you can collaborate with. That her achievements remained limited to passing a certification at a young age was because she didn't have any opportunity, or i would even argue , even awareness to take it to the next level. This awareness and opportunity is a product of so many more factors that i have highlighted above, not just media attention and financial power of one's family.

<comment><USER28> Fair point, still, she seemed quite creative. But you are right; 'we' have a different point of view. At least that's what it seems like.

Edit: I have some reservations about saying that though; I work with Pakistani designers and programmers, normal people, mostly not even well educated (just a bit) with just enough money to have bought a computer and learn some stuff. And they made products, sites, money just out of nothing like we would do here. So in that regard I have come to know at least some Pakistani as people who, despite their culture, mentors (and general lack there of), peers (and lack there of) and without the press, certification, education and wealthy family who took more or less the same path as 'we' westerners would. There are exceptions to most rules and I would think she would be that.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> If the headline was "world's youngest MSP" instead of "programming prodigy" would there be less hate in this thread?

<comment><USER30> "world's youngest MSP" is still pretty meaningless.

I have no clue why this is even on hacker news, let alone top story.

<comment><USER31> Well, you have only been here eight days. Give it some time and I'm sure you'll come to understand what HN appreciates better.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> _"If you want to do something big in your life, you must remember that shyness is only the mind," she said. "If you think shy, you act shy. If you think confident you act confident. Therefore never let shyness conquer your mind."_

Meditating on shyness as a kind of fear

"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

</comment><comment><USER33> Anyone know what was the causes of her seizures?

</comment><comment><USER34> I have heard a few interviews of her when she was 11. In her native language URDU. AND I must tell you that she is the most Wisest girl of her age that I have ever known. She is wiser than most 25 year olds. And her personality was truely fun and energizing.

</comment><comment><USER35> Her philosophy in more "adult" language:

<http://www.doitmotherfucker.com/>

</comment><comment><USER36> They are naming their IT Parks after her. That is absurd and completely illogical. I guess Pakistani will soon include her doings and sayings in their Computer Science courses.

[1][http://digg.com/newsbar/Technology/lahore_i_t_park_now_named...](http://digg.com/newsbar/Technology/lahore_i_t_park_now_named_arfa_karim_i_t_park_chief_minister_punjab)

[2]<http://tribune.com.pk/story/321964/k/>

<comment><USER37> It's absurd that parks are named after notable people? What?

Someone explain the bile and hatred in this thread to me. I don't get it.

<comment><USER36> Do you think MCP is that prestigious?

<comment><USER37> For a 9 year old? Yes.

For a 9 year old female in Pakistan? More so.

For a 9 year old female in Pakistan with an outlook on life that is more mature than some 20 year olds?

I'm having trouble coming up with reasons that this wasn't a very big deal.

<comment><USER36> if she was that genius then she should have solved NP-P problem at 14-15 years old. And in Pakistan elite class females don't face discrimination.

Frankly speaking i have more respect for that Boy <http://launchpad.net/~bilalakhtar> than her.At least he can program.

<comment><USER37> And comparatively, I have no respect for you. What have you done, except belittled?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I hate to write this, since the tragic happening but really, the hype is widely unjustified.

I started programming when I was 8, I know a lot of people that started meddling around with computer around the same age, and I was born a decade before her which, in computer years, is like a century. Everything programming related was a hundred times more difficult to accomplish than it is now - <USER2> wrote assembly on a C64, because that's all my poor family could afford, with nothing more than a printsheet of the opcodes. And no internet, keep that in mind. And I won't say I'm a prodigy because of that.

I am also an MCP (Microsoft Certified Professional) and I can tell you that the exam was nothing but difficult - basically, it had nothing to do with actual programming and more with knowing what checkbox to flag. I studied for it the evening before the test.

I've seen so many stories like this, most of them not as tragic and not as heartwarming. For example, a heir of a very wealth family that I know has been featured in at least 10 Italian newspapers as "the new Mark Zuckerberg" or "the 20 years-old startupper" or "the genius behind <his startup>", all because his family has deep ties with the editors.

That has taught me never to believe a thing of what I read on something even vaguely institutionalized.

<comment><USER38> Jesus, every damn time someone of note passes away we get a bunch of morons on here telling us how the accomplishments aren't as good as they seem. You people need to learn when to bite your tongues. I'm willing to bet if it were some VC going on and on about his/her life's works, the last thing you'd do is point out how unremarkable and unimpressive any of it is.

Let's see if a similar article is written up about your achievements when you pass away.

Thanks for the insight, though!

<comment><USER16> > we get a bunch of morons on here telling us how the accomplishments aren't > as good as they seem.

Whoa, easy. I have expressed my opinion and I have backed it up well I think. No hate for the poor girl, that's just terrible that somebody 16 years old have to die, no matter his or her accomplishments.

On the other hand, what accomplishments are we talking about here? Seriously, I'm really sorry for the poor girl, I really am, but still I can't see the accomplishment she's made.

And, honestly, I don't give a rat's ass about what people will write about me when I'm dead.

<comment><USER38> Bullshit. Utter bullshit.

I don't get this angry when commenting here but the disgusting lack of empathy continually expressed on HN really, really gets to me. If you truly felt sorry for the girl, for her family, considered her family's pride for what she accomplished not only for herself but possibly for other kids in Pakistan, then you wouldn't feel the need to point out any of what you've stated.

I read the article and found it quite inspirational that a girl her age had so much motivation. Most kids at the age of 9 are playing their Wii's and watching early-morning reruns of Power Rangers. Her achievements go beyond technical certification.

But it's alright. Let's be champions of truth and justice at the sacrifice of appreciation and empathy. It'd be the hacker thing to do, anyway. It's happened with Dropbox, AirBnB, Steve Jobs, etc, already; so one more added to the list is a drop in the bucket.

<comment><USER16> Your reply makes me sad. I'll try to explain why:

Empathy should have nothing to do with your ability to evaluate facts. Empathy has an evil cousin, _politically correctness_. When politically correctness comes into play, you lose the game. You can't talk about anything with a straight perspective because, you know, _somebody might get offended_.

A 16 years old kid has died. That is a sad fact by itself. If she was the dumbest kid in Pakistan that wouldn't have made the fact less sad - only, you wouldn't have known it. If she was the poorest kid in Pakistan, same thing. Now, you know that _a lot_ of 16 years old kids die in Pakistan? Most of them with family situations much worse than the one she was in? Do you feel empathy for them? I bet so. That's a good thing, a human thing to feel.

Now, as a thought experiment, let's say she wasn't a Pakistani little girl. Let's say she was a 16 years old boy coming from a rich US family. Even fat and greasy, to add to the image. Let's also add that this one didn't die - he's well off in his NY mansion eating Snickers all day. What would you have thought of the article? "16 years old kid from NY loves messing around with .NET". Wouldn't you have said: _who cares_? And rightly so?

Empathy drains perspective. Feeling empathy is the noblest thing in the world. At the same time, it doesn't mean that it should suspend your ability to evaluate situations. A big problem with our society and our communication channels is that they routinely employ this effect to steer public opinion where they want it to be. Don't be a sucker - be human, but use your brain.

<comment><USER39> You are a true engineer right to the end. Sticking your foot in your mouth and then continually trying to use logic to climb out of the hole you dug for yourself. The next time someone of note passes away, resist the urge to take them down a notch and just keep your mouth shut.

<comment><USER16> And you're a true manager right to the end, my friend. Making decision with your heart alone and refusing to see logic and data when they're in front of you.

May our paths never cross in real life.

<comment><USER40> There's nothing logical about your post, because a logical post wouldn't ignore that she was a 9 year old girl from Pakistan when she became a MCP and you _weren't_ a 9 year old girl from Pakistan when you became a MCP. You refuse to see the vast amount of differences between you and her and then continue to make a comparison as though it has any meaning.

That's not logic. That's jealousy.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Google AdSense Still Bans Ajax. What are the Alternatives? - <AUTHOR> I looked into this many years ago, and Google had a beta going for running Adsense on ajax-loaded content.
The other day I was really surprised to learn that Google had actually killed this beta program a couple of years ago, and now it looks like they'll never support ajax loaded content.
What good alternatives to Adsense are there for ajax-loaded content, or is there a way around this with Adsense that I'm not aware of? <comment><USER2> There is actually pretty good support, but you have to use AdSense through Google DFP - [https://www.google.com/dfp/](https://www.google.com/dfp/). Things like creating ad slots dynamically / loading them later / refreshing them dynamically work fine when you use GPT tags in DFP.

<comment><USER3> Afaik AdSense still explicitly prohibits refreshing through JS, but this doesn't seem to apply when going through GPT. I'm not entirely sure what the situation here is.

Case in point: I have an AJAX site where users spend about 18 minutes per visit and refresh ads every two minutes. So far no complaints from Google.

<comment><USER4> Interesting - is your site earning more than $1K a month? Just trying to gauge if you're big enough to get in their (human) crosshairs for more specific checks, or not.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I prefer affiliate networks because they, unlike AdSense, give me the freedom to design my own ads. Also there's this:

[http://www.warriorforum.com/main-internet-marketing- discussi...](http://www.warriorforum.com/main-internet-marketing-discussion- forum/606010-should-newbie-start-affiliate-marketing-adsense.html)

Who wants this eyesore on their websites anyway?

[http://adsense.blogspot.se/2014/05/a-new-look-for-text- ads-o...](http://adsense.blogspot.se/2014/05/a-new-look-for-text-ads-on- google.html)

I'm surprised the AdSense team is still toying around with amateur designs at the expense of the whole AdSense programme. I've seen the past works of the designers on the AdSense team and I'm not impressed. Plus it's quite naive to think that one design will fit all websites. Why can't AdSense, like other ad and affiliate networks, just open up an API so publishers themselves can be in charge of how their ads look and behave?

<comment><USER6> Affiliate ads may work well for narrow topics, but you are not going to be able to replicate the contextual ad earnings for larger sites. You have a lot of management overhead, additional payment risk, advertiser legal risk, and so on.

This is how Google is keeping their revenue moving up as desktop usage drops. It is a combination of fucking around with the Adsense style (more clicks) and advertisers (packaging tablet with desktop, now lumping in search with display "select.")

Adsense ads might be ugly, so is display. Auto-playing video ads are even worse. If your business model relies on advertising, either take it our build your own ad platform (some companies have done quite well with this, like Indeed and PlentyofFish.)

<comment><USER7> Affiliate networks (eg Commission Junction or LinkShare) solve pretty much all of the problems you mentioned.

It's a large business now, and can cover broad and narrow topics. Major affiliate networks can't compete with the scale of AdSense, but then no other ad network can either.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> The world could really use a good competitor to Adsense, couldn't it? How about some ad network that is based on contextual technology such as Facebook, retargeting, etc.

<comment><USER9> (unfortunately) nobody cares about the desktop ad space anymore, "the future" is mobile

<comment><USER10> Hmm... I don't see ads on my Gmail mobile client. I see ads on Facebook mobile client or too small to notice (I do notice the "recommended posts" sometimes). Free iPhone apps come with "ads". I personally don't see how mobile ads are so effective as desktop.

<comment><USER11> People are saying the future of advertising is mobile, not because it presents a good platform for showing ads, but because increasingly that is how people are spending their time, so there is an expectation that advertising dollars will follow.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> You can use BuySellAds units with Google Adsense as backfill.

For an example of this you can check out our Discourse instance: [http://forums.hummingbird.me/](http://forums.hummingbird.me/) (ads may not load on the initial pageview because of a timing bug I have not fixed yet, but try clicking somewhere and back to the homepage).

This is the source code: [https://github.com/vikhyat/discourse- bsa/blob/master/assets/...](https://github.com/vikhyat/discourse- bsa/blob/master/assets/javascripts/ad_units.js) (Ember.js)

</comment><comment><USER13> It seems like you can give native advertising a try. I'm the cofounder of [http://www.stackadapt.com](http://www.stackadapt.com) and you can load our ad tag through ajax. You can also define ad formats using your site's HTML, so the ads are completely native and responsive to your site.

<comment> luke-stanley What do you think native means?

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> AFAIK, your only option with Adsense is to implement a #! alternative crawlable site.

</comment><comment><USER15> I run BromBone.com. We have several customers using it to make static versions of their AJAX sites for Google Adsense purposes.

Email me at firstname.lastname@example.com if you want to talk details.

</comment><comment><USER16> An alternative way to make money online, is by removing ads and create a subscription-based feature, Stripe has a nice developer platform

</comment><comment><USER17> Maybe dynamically add iframes with ajax-content? Every iframe would be static, and so could have adsense.

<comment><USER18> I tried a year ago and they didn't allow ads in iframes</comment></comment>


Opt out of Google using you as an ad - <AUTHOR> https://plus.google.com/u/0/settings/endorsements <comment><USER2> I honestly don't understand whats wrong with this. It just seems like the natural progression of the services that Google already provides. If my friend searches for a new phone, they should see my public reviews of the phones. Friends reviews should be made front and center because reviews from people we know are always more valuable. The way the page reads, it seems they will only use your reviews in ads for friends, I think that's fair, but if they use it for strangers too then I'll probably opt out.

<comment><USER3> Shouldn't that be a conversation you have with your friend directly? Also it's not a recommendation for your friend, it's a recommendation to the general public.

If I want to recommend something to my friends on Plus, don't I already have a "Friends" circle I can broadcast to?

<comment><USER4> It's not a recommendation to the general public: your existing +1s, reviews and comments were already shared with whatever circles you'd already opted to share them with; this option just has those recommendations appear next to adverts for /only/ those same people.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> The contrast with Facebook couldn't be more stark.

Google is advertising the change extensively, and they explain it in simple English.

Google lets you opt out.

And if you were already opted out, they retain that more restrictive setting without you having to do anything.

I personally don't want to be an unpaid shill for anybody, which is why I refuse to create G+ or Facebook accounts.

But I have to recognize that Google's approach is far more open and honest than Facebook's.

<comment><USER6> > The contrast with Facebook couldn't be more stark.

Wouldn't it be more stark if Google didn't do this at all?

<comment><USER7> One good reason why it "shouldn't" do this? It's doing it and giving you a choice to either be a part of it or not. That is more than you can ask for from a free service. If you were able to be a part of a service, not pay a thing, feeding data to it and expecting it not to use it in anyway you wouldn't like- then you would also not see the constant innovation brought about by such companies; and this is justified as long as the user is not forced into it; the golden rule of software.

<comment><USER8> Because with that reasoning we could, and _really_ should, just abandon all free software. Because with that reasoning it is worthless.

There are other ways to make money in this world, even for a free service, than being a dick.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> When we look back a few years from now to see where google went wrong, it'll begin and end with Google+. It is the worst product execution and strategy in recent times.

<comment><USER10> I've moved our Open Source Community to a Google+ Community, I've personally found it's the best way to communicate and share content, news and announcements which ended up being much more engaging, interactive, visible and functional than everything else I've tried.

It encourages a better community feeling than the 140 chars allows for on Twitter, the content posted ends up being a lot more interesting, richer and more positive than the constant _dump o ' hate_ I see in my Tweet stream. Personally I'd prefer more ex-bloggers start posting on G+ than micro blogging their opinions on Twitter

<comment><USER11> _Twitter_ is your counterpoint? What else did you consider?

<comment><USER10> We've moved from a mailing list which was a black-hole for Content with very poor discoverability, and despite having many members was mostly read- only/ignored with just the same small group responding. We're now directing future support questions to StackOverflow. Many people were using GitHub issues to communicate, but this was primarily only seen by the Core team and effectively invisible to the wider community.

We see much more engaging and visible feedback on G+, people frequently comment on posts, +1 and re-share.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I opted out by deleting my Google+ profile last night. I honestly never wanted a Google+ profile and me submitting a YouTube video for a private audience (demonstrating a new feature in a web site I developed for a side client) that got broadcast to all my friends on Google+ was the last straw.

<comment><USER13> I hope you're prepared for a zillion A/B tested strategies to trick you to resigning up with G+ through YouTube. Say what you want about Facebook (and I don't have a FB account for many reasons) but at least they aren't constantly in my face trying to trick me to sign up.

Protip for the many Google employees that browse HN for fun or just to flag positive stories about Apple off the front page: the first 100 times I said "no" were not a mistake, I really don't want to sign up for G+. Get that shit out of my face forever pls.

<comment><USER14> If it was only YouTube... I recently got the prompt on GMail after a login, it was a mini-tab inside GMail for quite some time, it's a recurring question or even requirement on any new Google service, but the closest I've come to converting my old-style Google account into one with a G+ profile is certainly when adding your account on Android. One touch-sensitive button to start the process directly next to the one for skipping it..

Quite the obstacle course.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> This is exactly how opt-out pages should work.

I understand it took some bad publicity before it happened, but I commend Google for correcting their mistake and making it easy to disable.

<comment><USER16> Agreed. It's nice to see an opt out page that isn't asking me if I'm sure that I don't not want to opt in to not being used as a not ad.

<comment><USER3> It's too vague. Some of it sounds cool, some of it does not. So I opted out.

I would have made a series of focused opt-in pages that popup in stages over months (less annoying, less confusing) and sell each recommendation function as a cool feature with real benefits, like increased SEO authority, traffic to your Google Plus page, etc.

That said this makes me not want to comment, thumbs-up, plus one anything.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I don't understand this page.

Under the heading "Setting: Shared Endorsements in Ads" the copy reads as if this setting was an opt-out type of thing.

The actually text next to the checkbox reads as if this setting was an opt-in type of thing.

<comment><USER18> It's phrased as "do this", but it starts already-checked. So you're unchecking it to make it stop.

<comment><USER19> The box was already unchecked for me as well, thus the confusion.

<comment><USER20> It must be because you already opted out of +1's

It was blank for me too.

[http://www.engadget.com/2013/10/11/google-users-shared- endor...](http://www.engadget.com/2013/10/11/google-users-shared-endorsements- ads/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> I don't have a Google Plus profile for my Google account so I can't get to the checkbox to opt out without first creating a creating a Google Plus profile. Talk about a catch 22. Though maybe they're only planning to use Google+ content for ads?

<comment><USER22> If you don't use G+ there is nothing this opt out would do. This is an opt-out for having your G+ profile picture and name show up next to search results for people who have you in their circles. If you +1 a page, then that page can be promoted in your friends search results with your name linked to the page. It's actually a fairly useful feature and I often see Android links promoted by people I have added to circles, which is useful.

It's really a fairly benign feature to begin with as you have to actually +1 a page before it shows up. At any rate, this checkbox appears to remove that so that others can't see your +1s in search results. I don't really understand why you would +1 something and not want people to see though, although I'm guessing it has something to do with an employee of companyA +1ing companyBs page by mistake and making it look like an endorsement.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> "When you disable this setting, your friends will be less likely to benefit from your recommendations." \- I'm surprised that even my computer could render these bytes with a straight face.

<comment><USER24> Why? It's absolutely true. If you disable the setting, your reviews for products will not show up in your friends' results. Presumably some people would be interested to know that one of their friends purchased such-and-such a thing and found it useful.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> Asks me to make a google+ account. Does that mean I'm already immune?

<comment><USER2> yes

<comment><USER25> You sure? I'm now getting a banner at the top of all my google pages that directs me to a page that tells me that I need to opt out (of course, I get the same useless upgrade to google plus screen).

Ugh.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> This was default off for my paid G Apps account with a regular G+ Profile.

</comment><comment><USER27> It's interesting that folks in the tech community had the same reaction that I did... TURN IT OFF. Seems that this would be one of those "Don't be Evil" moments for Google. It seems reasonable that people wouldn't want their rating or review used out of context on an ad. This is exactly what's wrong with Facebook "Like" buttons. Why repeat the same mistake?

<comment><USER4> Why would a rating or review of a place be out of context on an ad for it?

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> Who wants to bet that checkbox does nothing...like the thermostat in my office to control the temperature.

</comment><comment><USER29> Speaking of all this tripe, does anyone know how to export your YouTube favourites without creating a G+ account?

A couple of days ago, it starting requiring me to sign up to add a video to my list of favourites, and the API throws an error - probably for the same reason.

<comment><USER30>
       http://gdata.youtube.com/feeds/base/users/<youtube-username>/favorites?alt=rss&v=2&orderby=published&client=ytapi-youtube-profile

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> Is it unchecked by default? For me it was unchecked when I got there.

<comment><USER32> I forget what the old setting was, but there was a G+ setting about showing +1s in other contexts, which I recall unchecking when I was unchecking all the "email me about..." settings and other cruft in the G+ settings. Looks like they remember that (it was unchecked for me too).

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> I'm in the minority in that I love Google+. It's everything good about social networking without any of those pesky people everyone seems to like so much.

</comment><comment><USER34> This is a perfect example of HN acting productively. Identifies a serious problem that effects the audience and pushes the solution to the top.

</comment><comment><USER35> Do I have to make a plus account to opt out?

<comment><USER36> Don't you need an account to be used in ads to begin with?

<comment><USER37> Yes, you need a G+ account to make reviews. Not having a G+ account means you cannot be used for Shared Endorsements.

Disclaimer: I'm a Google employee.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> Didn't go through the link.

This was turned off by default for me when I edited my Google Profile (not a paid user).

Shared Endorsements Off edit

</comment><comment><USER39> I made this simpler, just leave google+ and I'm "safe".

</comment><comment><USER40> Anyone else find it ironic you cannot +1 that page?

</comment><comment><USER41> Shouldn't it be opt-in ?

</comment><comment><USER42> Unfortunately this page will probably not even hit the most gullible folks who signed in their gmail and are using Google+ unknowingly. Hope there is a broader communication from Google to allow people to disable this. Can't imagine this was made an automatic opt in.

<comment><USER24> So the people who are unknowingly using G+... aren't really generating anything for Google to use, are they? They want to show your reviews alongside ads. Well, if you're making reviews on Google+, that's not really "unknowing". If you're sharing, +1'ing, following, or starring content on G+, you're not really unknowingly using G+.

So basically people who technically have a G+ account but never use it shouldn't be affected, because you have to _use_ G+ to generate this content.</comment></comment>


Apple's Strategy to Save iPad: Turn It into a PC - <AUTHOR> http://insights.dice.com/2016/03/21/can-the-ipad-revitalize-the-tablet-market/ <comment><USER2> Can you do things like download on the iPad nowadays?

The iPad always felt like a poor (rich)man's laptop when you couldn't do things like download files from webpages.

<comment><USER3> Puffin Browser integrates with dropbox. It also has a "mouse mode" that lets you drag / drop / flash (if you need it).

<comment><USER4> Documents.app lets you download to their own app sandbox and move files between iCloud Drive and other cloud services.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> iOS is great for most people, but I figure most people on this site are "power" users, and desire more options with the hardware.. I just want OSX on a tablet. kinda like [http://www.modbook.com/modbookpro](http://www.modbook.com/modbookpro)

</comment><comment><USER3> One thing I've never understood is why there is no mouse or trackpad integration with iOS. It's the one thing that is keeping me from going 100% iPad all day long. I don't like picking my hands up. Is Apple doing this on purpose to force developers to design their software that way?

<comment><USER6> My theory is that Apple does not want to be seen as trailing behind Microsoft</comment></comment>


Let's Chat – open source, self-hosted chat for small teams - <AUTHOR> http://sdelements.github.io/lets-chat/

<comment><USER2> Explain me how this is better than IRC.

<comment><USER3> IRC is a bit less accessible for non-technical people. We had a lot of trouble getting our team to adopt it. It's not for everyone.

That's why products like Slack, HipChat, Campfire, etc exist.

<comment><USER4> I don't want to dismiss your efforts, but in the spirit of the original question I'd like to know: Is it only a UI problem, or is there a problem with IRC (the protocol) itself ?

<comment><USER5> The lack of persistence built into the protocol (and thus clients) is a big problem for team communications. You can have a bot log your channel, but they'll often have holes creep into the logs somehow, and for private discussions require yet one more access control system.

Having a web irc client that provided a common backlog and search for all users, instead of requiring things like znc to make that usable, would be great. The private part is fraught though.

<comment><USER2> /query?

<comment><USER5> /query command is news to me, but appears to be completely unrelated (I don't really understand the naming).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Why does every attempt to improve user experience these days, make the assumption that they need to rebuild the entire stack from scratch?

A really high quality web (maybe even HTML5 client-side only even?) XMPP client would be a welcome thing. This, not so much.

<comment><USER7> This wasn't exactly "an attempt to improve user experience". It's a hack day project that we use internally to help the different BU's communicate. The bonus is we get to have fun with it because we wrote it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> lacks offline mobile support :-(

<comment><AUTHOR> This is something can consider for a future release. Do you mean offline message storage, so you can look at discussions offline?

<comment><USER8> I want to see some (or a lot of?) chat history offline, and then send msgs while offline. I don't want it to scan the network, delay loads, or blow up in any way just because the network is down. Think about the Whatsapp or Telegram experience, as opposed to Slack or Facebook Messenger. If you are in and out of the subway, or in elevators, or just where there are spotty networks, the mobile experience blows for anything but the super popular and consumery chat services.

Unlike the people who can't figure out why this is better than IRC, I find a ton of value in your project. After leaving Campfire, moving to Kato, and then settling with Slack, I am really unhappy with the Slack mobile experience.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you for getting back to me. I'll open a feature request for this and see if we can fit it into a future release.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Idea of the day - CPU heated external keyboards - <AUTHOR>

So its winter. Its cold. My external USB keyboard is cold and its not very comfortable...
SIMPLE! Adapt the keyboard cable to have an extra insulated copper cable attached and use the computer CPU heat to warm up the keyboard!
Actually, computers could have an external 'heat pipe' socket, so that a 'standard' insulated copper cable could be plugged in to heat keyboards or even desks etc. When pluggin in, the computer will only use the fan if the cable cooling is not sufficient. <comment><USER2> Won't work with wireless keyboards.

Turn your PC around so that the fan is blowing at your fingers.

This idea might actually make sense for laptops, when used on the go in draughty locations.

But your real problem is that your office is too cold. It needs better heating/insulation, or it needs to heat up quicker in the morning. Messing with a desktop keyboard is using the wrong tool for the job.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah, you're probably right! Good thing I didn't call the patent lawyers just yet!</comment></comment>


YouTube must be disrupted - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@cherianthomas/youtube-must-be-disrupted-ccb9b73bcee6

<comment><USER2> Yea and few of those services that "disrupted" Craigslist are well known. The population at large knows maybe 3 of them.

Because if you have to market and brand each comprehensible English description such as recipes, dating, selling used junk with some weird brand name like Cucumbertron, NotOkCupid or whatever, it's an uphill battle. The market can only accept a few new big brands a year.

When a normal person (as a opposed to a computer obsessed geek) wants to do stuff on a computer, they want to do it without learning a million little brands that do narrow little tasks, take time to find, learn a UI, figure out if they work right.

They want to type in "dating", click on some profiles and schedule dates.

Whatever companies compete to handle this service are under the hood. To the user "it just works." Without that niche services face a lottery in an over- saturated market of niche services. That's really why big brands exist in the digital realm and take massive effort or long periods of time to dethrone.

Craigslist and YouTube work because they provide a consistent, predictable way to access a multitude of services and video topics. That's something the "web" or computers in general should handle instead of companies. That's what really needs to be disrupted.

</comment><comment><USER3> While I understand and agree with most of this post, I prefer the all-in-one aspect of YouTube. Having six different apps for different categories of video is not ideal to me.</comment>


Is Excel the most dangerous piece of software in the world? - <AUTHOR> http://www.newstatesman.com/technology/2013/02/excel-most-dangerous-piece-software-world <comment><USER2> Largely content-free, the actual article by Kwak was submitted and discussed extensively here:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5198187></comment>


Marc Cuban living the Google Lifestyle - <AUTHOR> http://blogmaverick.com/2010/12/10/am-i-living-the-google-lifestyle/

<comment><USER2> "I was walking to a business dinner in NYC. Someone told me they were going to start working with a new manager and asked me if I knew him. The name sounded familiar and I thought I had done something with him during the Broadcast.com days. A quick GMail search from my phone and I found 2 emails we had exchanged when he was trying to sell a company he was involved with back in 1996. That's why I use GMail."

</comment><comment><USER3> The gmail transfer question is interesting. I spent some days trying to upload my mail archives and looking for the best solution.

In the end I configured 5 pop3 account on my server for gmail to fetch concurrently, and filled them with my archives. I did use <http://imap- upload.sourceforge.net> and <http://pyropus.ca/software/getmail/> to get the mboxes into the pop3 server and move mails archives from a gmail account to a google hosted account.

Yet the whole process was slow and not that good: \- Some email changed encoding (chinese characters) while they looked good with mutt \- some were dupes and gmail did not dedupe them \- many had a problem with the date (missing from the mail, but the last MX date could be used) and so gmail assigned them to the date when they were retrieved from the pop3 server \- some mails were also merged because of _From separation in mbox not supported by imap-upload or getmail (can't remember ATM) \- sent mail could not be filed into "sent" \- chat archives could not be moved between gmail accounts \- pop3 retrieval accepted a max of 200k emails IIRC, so I had to do it by batches \- pop3 refused some mail (it thought they had viruses or exes attachments) and let them in the pop3, so I had to move them manually while another 200k batch was running \- gmail pop3 retrieval also means additional delays between iterations

Finally, when you correct any bug, having to go through the whole process again is painful (thrash all the import and start again, reload the pop3 queue, resume 200k batches)

Then there's the spam problem. You will have false negatives. And if the process is taking days/months depending on the size of your archive, you'd better remember to check the spam folder and move then to inbox, or add a special rule to never sent any email from your archive to spam. But if you do that, you'll fill your gmail account with some spam which you may not want if you didn't take care to delete your spam and have some mboxes containing up to 80% of spam as I had.

For now I don't think there's a good solution and I gave up until I have more time to spend on the problem and a workaround on the limitations (pop3 is a killer)

But it remains an interesting problem, because I believe there's a market for a good gmail migration offer. (I'd have paid $50 or more to have the mboxes properly integrated in gmail, and I guess I'm not alone!)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> I'm really impressed with Cuban's genuine interest in technology. It seems like he buys lots of new products simply to try them out (Logitech Revue and Samsung Tab). He's always trying to make himself more productive and find an advantage.

Of course he has the advantage of enough money to test out all these new products and technologies.</comment>


Let the geek worship begin - <AUTHOR> http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/culturelab/2011/03/let-the-geek-worship-begin.html <comment><USER2> Seeing this on HN is awesome. I am a mentor on a FIRST Robotics Competition (FRC) team as well and I have just began reading The New Cool. Amir is an inspiration to every mentor and student in FIRST. We are right in the middle of our regional season so you can check out the robots and competitions in your area by going to <http://usfirst.org>.</comment>


Ask HN: Name/domain advice on a Product Hunt clone - <AUTHOR>

I'm working on a Product Hunt style website which is about Turkish Startups but I couldn't decide about name (and of course the domain) of the website. I have two wordings in my mind. I'm trying to choose one of them. Please let me know about your thoughts and if you have any other advice.
1. Turk Hunt Pros Easy to say and remember. Easy to make connection with Product Hunt
Cons It's a bit sounding like about hunting
2. Turk Starter Pros Kickstarter similarity
Cons Maybe a bit long and not relevant as Turk Hunt?
Thanks! <comment><USER2> Does it have to be _____ Hunt?

How about just 'TurkishStartups' or one of these: StartupTurk TurkStartups TurkProducts Turkstarter TurkTech

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for your opinion and alternatives. I got similar feedbacks about hunt wording. I will re-consider all alternatives again.</comment></comment>


Browser based 3D Jimmy Fallon Avatar reads and acts out live tweets - <AUTHOR> http://www.frazyfallon.com/

<comment><USER2> The goat is definitely the star of the show here! Cool to see what's possible with the Twitter API!

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks! Here is why we created this: [http://www.frazy.co/#!frazyfallon/c1djs](http://www.frazy.co/#!frazyfallon/c1djs)

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> great use of webgl, what was it built on?

<comment><AUTHOR> thanks gmadoo! We built it on playcanvas.com</comment></comment>