Jeff Bezos' new patent envisions tablets without processors, batteries - <AUTHOR> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/03/jeff-bezos-new-patent-envisions-tablets-without-processors-batteries/ <comment><USER3> Isn't it odd that this is patentable? One day, long before this patent expires, all of the technology needed for this will be commonplace, and the idea will be obvious to any four year old.

I've heard that the point of patents is to incent innovation, but it's hard to see how that's happening here. It's not the case, as with pharmaceutical research, that R&D resources had to be spent to generate the idea, demonstrate its efficacy, and prove its safety. That will be needed for the technology required to implement this, but, this patent actually reduces the incentive to spend R&D resources on the technology necessary to implement it!

<comment><USER4> It's very odd. At this point Bezos is patenting something that (probably) doesn't exist in the hopes someone does build it or his team can build it.

It would be like someone realizing that we could send out electrical signals from a transmitter and catch them on a receiver. What would the radio guys have patented? They actually built a radio, the patent is for a broad idea.

If anyone brings this to fruition this should be invalidated. Someone must've patented wireless electric transmission decades ago (maybe even Tesla?) and having wifi for the content is even less special.

EDIT: typo.

<comment><USER5> This is what annoyed me about this patent as well, its like saying "Dibs!" if someone can build this thing, we own it! Seriously? I'd write more but I'm busy writing up patents on Phase Conduits and Deflector arrays.

<comment><USER6> Actually, using patents in that way seems to have a long history - <USER2> mentions something about having his name on a patent for nuclear powered aircraft in "Surely You're Joking, Mr Feynman".

<comment><USER7> At that time Feynman was filing patents on behalf of the government during wartime when there were other concerns than wildly trying to grasp any possible market. I would guess that the government was trying to ensure that individuals and corporations would not be in a position to obtain a monopoly on an invention that could gain the US a tactical/strategic advantage in the war.

<comment><USER8> Ah, the good old days, when the government would simply abuse the existing legal process to screw the little guy instead of just declaring a new process by fiat ala NSL/executive order/etc when it suits them.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> To quote the post

"Transferring power and data wirelessly to displays as described in the patent is currently infeasible"

So you can get a patent on something you actually have not invented? Just something you would like to invent - or perhaps prefer that someone else invents so you can then milk them for royalties.

The world has truly gone crazy.

<comment><USER10> I completely agree. We can argue all day long about whether or not things like software patents are good. But I think the very minimum bar to file a patent should be "we actually made a prototype of this that does what we're claiming."

<comment><USER11> At the very least, it's perfectly reasonable to expect schematics for how a prototype could be built.

<comment><USER12> It is supposed to be good enough that someone "skilled in the art" could build it after reading the patent.

<comment><USER13> That probably means that the concepts you describe have to be common knowledge to those skilled in the art... basically a commodity. But what is described in this patent is unfeasible and whoever discovers the implementation could be only one of few who could do it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> "Transferring power and data wirelessly to displays as described in the patent is currently infeasible..."

So when someone does the actual work of figuring out the hard part of this idea... they won't be able to use it because of this patent?

</comment><comment><USER14> _Transferring power and data wirelessly to displays as described in the patent is currently infeasible..._

No, our patent system isn't broken _at all_. Whereas the patent system was made to ensure knowledge was transferred, now the people _getting_ the patents don't even have to know how to build something.

</comment><comment><USER15> Interesting that claim 1 appears to have been cancelled for some reason, perhaps due to being insufficiently clear. That's generally the broadest claim so clearly the USPTO saw fit to narrow the patent down to an extent, just not as greatly as would seem appropriate, at least from the other comments on this thread.

It's also a continuation and claims priority from two existing applications, although unfortunately, documents are not available for those applications, at least from the system I use which is generally fairly comprehensive[1]

[1][http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDo...](http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=US&NR=2013069865A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=6&date=20130321&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP)

</comment><comment><USER16> Good news everyone. I just patented a way to float to work on a cloud of rainbows.

</comment><comment><USER17> "The network is the computer." - John Gage of Sun Microsystems.

This looks like a newer version of a thin client. See the Sun Ray from '99:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Ray>

</comment><comment><USER18> Wireless terminals?

Logical conclusion: If you can patent a vision, without actually inventing it, then anyone can manufacture it afterwards, provided he/she doesn't _envision_ it in the process.

</comment><comment><USER19> So by "without processors or batteries" we mean "with a processor and a battery". Check.

</comment><comment><USER20> So is he getting a patent on paper? How novel.

</comment><comment><USER21> I just skimmed the article, but regardless the validity of the patent, this is where the tech world is going. When everything is connected to the cloud and all communication is ultra-fast, all you need is a device that can accept user input and output, and transfer it to a base station that processes the data. All computational functions and display data will be stored and transferred wirelessly.

<comment><USER22> So we've gone full circle to mainframe computing.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> I should be patenting living to 130 years old. All the 129 years old in the future would pay to my grandson through their wrinkled noses.

<comment><USER24> To heck with that, Wikipedia says the verified oldest person is alive and 115. I say you patent living to 116, and start collecting checks next year if old Jiroemon Kimura, is that lucky / unlucky.

* or you could skip verified and go with 123, but why wait?

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> This seems like a repetition of the many terminals to one mainframe pattern. That said, companies like eink and pervasivedisplays already have 'epaper kiosks' that mimic this pattern with a transmitter acting as a middle man between your computer (or whatever generates the image) and the screen.

[edited for clarity]

</comment><comment><USER26> Obviously the patent is stupid.

But the idea is great, I've had this repeatedly. I carry around at minimum 2 devices that are mostly redundant. It's wasteful.

I'd like one "base device" (today it would probably be a higher-powered version of your phone) and several satellite devices.

A big screen that my phone snaps into or talks with is #1 on my list

<comment><USER27> Like the PadFone?

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> Does anyone else remember the Smart Displays that Microsoft tried to popularize around the time of the TabletPCs? They didn't have wireless power, but that certainly wasn't because no one has ever entertained the idea. They did rely on the processing power of a PC, though.

</comment><comment><USER29> Congratulations to Amazon for inventing the dumb terminal. Clearly this is an original idea. /sarcasm

</comment><comment><USER30> Not only is this not possible right now it's also a dumb idea.

So now instead of having one device that's easily portable to anywhere you want to go, you have the device plus a base station that you have to carry around. Oh boy! What an improvement!

<comment><USER31> My guess is that the base station will power many devices and be located such as routers are now. So, for instance, an office may have a base station that powers its employees' devices as they wander from room to room.

<comment><USER30> What about using it in the car? What about using it in a restaurant? A hotel room?

Are you really telling me that the Amazon base stations are going to be ubiquitous?

It's a bad design.

<comment><USER31> Just because it doesn't work in a car doesn't make it a bad design. Television doesn't work in most cars, but people still buy them.

Something doesn't have to solve every use case to be useful.

FWIW, I tend to agree with you. I think the better problem to solve would be to have electrical energy generative/storage devices. But I've been wrong about these things in the past so I try to second-guess myself.

<comment><USER30> Except this is meant to supplant a design that DOES work in the car, that's why it's stupid.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> Badly phrased headline - there is no patent, yet.

This is just an application. One which, with enough public input and complaining, will hopefully never be granted.

</comment><comment><USER33> Seriously? How could he file patent for technologies don't even exist? That's like trying to patent things appeared in a sci-fi movie.

</comment><comment><USER34> So, kind of like TV, minus the plugs or batteries.

(...and maybe VCRs that prevent you from dubbing VHS to VHS)

</comment><comment><USER35> This sounds like Doctor Who's psychic paper.

</comment><comment><USER36> pretty sure this has prior art in Avatar</comment>


Why HJKL? - <AUTHOR> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HJKL_keys#HJKL_keys <comment><USER2> I've added some information to the article that I remember from when I had one of these terminals as a kid. Bought it at auction for, I think, US$5. Living near National Labs had its benefits.</comment>


Generation Nintendo - <AUTHOR> http://www.filfre.net/2016/04/generation-nintendo/ <comment><USER2> I remember the first time that I played Super Mario bros on the NES. I was so absolutely blown away, that words don't make justice. I had previous experience with many consoles and computer games. But this thing -Mario Bros- was so incredibly well designed, that it was beyond unbelievable. This little box, packing this strange, exotic world, full of inexplicable, surprising creatures and devices. With many different areas full of mysteries. Reinforced by the perplexing, hypnotizing music. I still can clearly hear it. The amazing sound effects. I can still clearly hear the sound of entering a pipe, and descending into the underground. The amount of engaging and continually fresh motion, required to overcome the always changing obstacles, was absolutely unequaled at the time.

There were moments that I would be idle, pondering how it was possible to pack so much brilliant design on a thing. I would then be also tremendously impressed by other games of the time, notably Zelda and Super Mario Bros 3. That I would become a big fan of Japanese game design for life. Investigating and following the individual game creators. Since then, I slowly noticed that the Japanese, and some Asians, have a unique sensibility that gives their games a peculiar flavor. Many people -mainly westerns- don't resonate with this peculiar uniqueness, that rarely exist in western games. And that is ok, just interesting. It is like they can achieve a laser focus on a particular set of simple, essential human emotions. It can be found on how they draw things, the stories that write, etc. That particularly inspires some people.

For many people, Nintendo games of the time were so dramatically better designed, compared to the standards of the time, that they were like gold compared to the others dirt. That was an important factor, possibly the biggest, in the creation of the generation Nintendo. It is very interesting to know what were the conditions and events, that allowed Nintendo the company, to come up with these absolutely brilliant products at the time. That allowed it to achieve legendary status among so many people.

<comment><USER3> There is a risk of oriential mysticism when talking about japan's game design sense. Yet it is a real thing. Japan has a different game design culture which grew during the 80's and 90's. Japan's game designers almost never speak or read english. Entire companies are isolated. So you have isolated game designers working in an isolated country. This has led to several unique understandings of how games should be developed.

Some of the ideas just seem wrong to my foreign experience. A designer might say "this is easier for the player to understand", as he suggests something which seems to me 100% opaque and blackbox. There are fundamental differences to how a japanese mega-corp develops a video game.

<comment><USER4> > Yet it is a real thing.

Doesn't seem like a "game design sense" anymore than the fact that they have an isolated culture and their games simply resonate within this culture.

We all know the 'asian websites' thing which is spoken about a lot. Their websites look like shit to use, but to them it is simply the better way.

Nothing "mystic" about it, it is simply how they do stuff.

At least this is what I think.

<comment><USER5> > Their websites look like shit to use,

No no no... It's just that good web design is simply hard to find. No one is proud of these "asian websites". And it takes a while for updated good design practices to make it across the shore. Here is a decent site:

[http://www.jp.playstation.com/psnow/](http://www.jp.playstation.com/psnow/)

And for the record, a shitty "asian" one:

[http://www.rakuten.co.jp/](http://www.rakuten.co.jp/)

<comment><USER6> That second one looks a lot more usable. Reminds me of the old Ebay or Amazon homepages back when they were growing really big - lots of links making it easy to find whatever you wanted, maybe not beautiful according to some arbitrary aesthetic but very functional.

<comment><USER5> Regardless of whether it's usable, "reminds" is right. Rakuten is a huge modern forward-looking company, yet this is the best they can do. It's basically a classifieds of clickbait.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> The lockout chip mentioned is detailed in wikipedia: [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIC_(Nintendo)#10NES](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIC_\(Nintendo\)#10NES)

Some highlights include unlicensed cartridges using a "voltage spike" to knock out the chip, and the patent expiring in 2006.

</comment><comment><USER8> W/R to "What If's", I think the big one is "What If Atari Were Stronger/More Focused". They tried to grow into a "manufacturing conglomerate" rather than a "consumer design" company. It misused their original branding and culture. For this the Warner acquisition deserves a large share of the blame, even as it seemed necessary for financing the VCS launch. Either way, by the time the company was at its most profitable, it was already rotten from mismanagement.

Had they found a path towards a more contemporary-Apple-like management style, and some foresight for the third-party situation and the console lifecycle, they would have broken away from the scattershot focus, released a good, DRM- protected, backwards-compatible update to the VCS in the early 80's instead of the half-baked 5200/7800 efforts, insulated themselves from the arcade crash with original console software, and starved Nintendo's air supply at retail.

They might have even still released computers, just of a different sort - perhaps they would have kept Jay Miner's team and had an Atari-branded Amiga, with a console version released soon after(c. 1985-86) instead of 8 years later(CD32 - 1993).

</comment><comment><USER9> This is amazing. It's one of those moments where actions of a single person change the course of history in a better way. I mean, I'm sure American companies might disagree. ;) Yet, I'm glad they showed up knocking down our industries' garbage with higher quality or effectiveness. It was a nice, reality check whose individual cases could've been endured and/or countered earlier if American executives weren't so arrogant. For auto's and such, that is, as Nintendo's offering was pretty forward-thinking.

More amazing is the founder also invented the Raman concept and motels dedicated to pimping in a small span of time. Plus, really cool toys. Innovative guy and company. Very unique.

EDIT: Forgot to add a piece about absolutely hating Nintendo for their contribution to DRM and lock-in. Sometimes I want innovators to think less. Bunch of A-holes. ;)

<comment><USER10> With no/weak DRM you get the fate of the Dreamcast!

<comment><USER9> I thought it died because it was weak technically and in terms of publishers vs next gen stuff right around the corner. Nobody I knew wanted a Dreamcast with PS2 and Nintendos about to come out plus hardly any good games. May just be anecdotal though.

<comment><USER11> > "plus hardly any good games"

Of course this is purely subjective, but in my opinion the Dreamcast had one of the strongest game line ups of any console, especially considering that it was only a mainstream platform for a couple of years. Shenmue 1+2, Soul Calibur, Power Stone 1+2, Crazy Taxi 1+2, Jet Set Radio, Virtua Tennis 1+2, Street Fighter 3 (all three versions), Marvel Vs Capcom 2, Phantasy Star Online, Rez, etc... Was a great system, particularly if you enjoyed arcade- style gaming.

<comment><USER9> Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy, Mario, WWF No Mercy/Smackdown, Mortal Kombat, the sports games... What genre defining and blockbuster games did it have? We don't need better-looking versions of a few good ones. It had those but couldn't justify price on that. Playstation and N64 had way more value for money in terms of content, esp original.

Plus, did it play _all your old games_? That was a nice selling point of PS2's although not strictly necessary.

<comment><USER11> > "What genre defining and blockbuster games did it have?"

When you say 'genre defining and blockbuster', are you referring to the quality of the games or how much they sold?

If you base quality on how many copies were sold, then you're not going to find what you're looking for. If you base them on the quality of the experience, then you will find what you're looking for.

Consider the fighting game genre. What games in the 3D fighting genre were the equal of Soul Calibur at the time of release? The N64 had very limited choices in this regard (I had an N64 too, so I remember this well, best option was probably Fighters Destiny). The PlayStation had some decent 3D fighters, but again nothing I would favourably compare to Soul Calibur. Even the Playstation 2 didn't have anything I'd put above it within its first year (Tekken Tag Tournament was okay, as was Dead or Alive 2, though the Dreamcast had Dead or Alive 2 as well).

I could go through a bunch of other high quality games that the Dreamcast had, but unless you've played them I doubt you'll believe me about how good they were.

<comment><USER9> "If you base them on the quality of the experience, then you will find what you're looking for."

Maybe both given nobody buying it might say something. Spreading like wild fire with people buying the consoles just to play the game... as was common with Nintendo and Playstation... would definitely say something. So, quantity matters. We can focus on quality, though.

"What games in the 3D fighting genre were the equal of Soul Calibur at the time of release?"

My memory problem is hurting me here as it's a gap. I do recall playing it and even bought strategy guide for artwork. I used to collect them for best games even if I couldn't afford the system/game. I recall really liking it. Tekken, esp Tekken 2, was the genre-definer in that one having come first, done 3D, and versatile style of gameplay. I played the crap out of Tekken 2 but did marvel at Soulcaliber's weapons and extra gameplay.

Note: Interesting enough, the same team developed Tekken and Soulcalibur.

"I could go through a bunch of other high quality games that the Dreamcast had, but unless you've played them I doubt you'll believe me about how good they were."

Less imagination than usual, buddy. It's called YouTube and Google. :P Just list a few in different categories along with their predecessor or mainstream alternative on other consoles. I can see Dreamcast (or just coding) improvements by looking at both. Then, I can assess whether it was barely better, a substantial improvement, or gamechangingly better.

To start with, I looked up Tekken 2 and Soulcalibur on Youtube on original, release consoles. Nice nostalgia moment. Tekken 2 looked like it ran on a system with barely any 3D hardware and tiny CPU. ;) Did have strong variety in fighting styles, particle effects, difficult gameplay, and some 3D movement.

Now, Dreamcast was 128-bit instead of 32-bit, had almost 10x CPU speed, 15x polygons/sec, 8x RAM, 8x VRAM, and extra dedicated hardware. This was quantum leap in performance. Just the character screen shows the difference. To fight, characters look 3D for real with smooth animations and extra particle effects. Movement, plus cameras, in 3D was better. Use of combinations was smoother. Characters seemed to have less variety but seems to replace it with weapon use variety.

Doing comparisons, Soulcaliber looks like a team started with Tekken on way better hardware then improved a few parts of its gameplay. It looks like a Tekken expansion pack rather than a gamechanger. A beautiful expansion that corrects significant deficiencies. Gotta pass on this one, though. Tekken's on PSX were game changers for 3D given style that continued to be imitated, number of original aspects, and sales volume. I'm impressed that Soulcaliber perfecting that style got it perfect scores by reviewers.

What else you got? Whether I agree or not on impact it might be fun looking at them. Especially those I never got to play. Like when I watched Nightwarrior videos for the Saturn wishing I had it given all the neat artwork and moves. :)

<comment><USER11> > "It looks like a Tekken expansion pack rather than a gamechanger."

> "What else you got?"

I have a feeling anything I can come up with you will call an expansion (or something along those lines) to an older game you liked. It's a cop out. For example, Tekken wasn't the first 3D fighter, Virtua Fighter came first, so you could say Tekken was a variation on Virtua Fighter rather than looking at it on its own merits. Do you see why this type of historical argument can rob games of their own merits? For example, Soul Calibur pioneered 8-way running in fighting games, previous games relied on sidesteps and other small movements, even the previous game in the series (Soul Edge, a.k.a. Soul Blade). However, this style of movement completely changes the dynamics of the gameplay. In other words, if you boil a game down to its basic appearance, you can miss the wood for the trees.

To give another example of this, consider the party system in the Street Fighter 3 series (Street Fighter 3: 3rd Strike is the most polished of this series, but the previous two had the same mechanic). This apparently simple change to Street Fighter radically changes the tactics available in game. On the surface it looks inconsequential, but instead it was the biggest change to Street Fighter gameplay since the invention of the combo.

If you want some more trips down memory lane, look up Shenmue, Phantasy Star Online and Rez. A simple explanation of Shenmue is 'Virtua Fighter RPG', but again that misses the point of the experience. I believe Phantasy Star Online was the first ever online console RPG. Rez is a rails shooter, a lot of the pleasure comes from the way the sound and visuals are synchronised with each other.

<comment><USER9> "I have a feeling anything I can come up with you will call an expansion (or something along those lines) to an older game you liked. It's a cop out. For example, Tekken wasn't the first 3D fighter, Virtua Fighter came first, so you could say Tekken was a variation on Virtua Fighter rather than looking at it on its own merits."

Memory loss kicked in here: forgot Virtua Fighter's details since I didn't play it. Further research showed it wasn't just the first (knew that). It had all the key innovations in it that others, including Tekken, copied. So, Virtua Fighter is the game-changer or prime innovator here with Tekken's improvements how it went very mainstream. Soulcaliber improved on Tekken 2 to make it the first one with totally smooth experience. Correction accepted. :)

EDIT: Another in this lineage, same company and year as Soulcalibur, was Ergheiz. It came out before or right with Soulcalibur on PSX limited hardware. It was a bit weird but quite unique. It had Final Fantasy characters on top of others, weapons, 3D environments, moving levels, use of environment as weapon MAYBE (memory...), upper floors, and movement all over. Also, RPG built into it from Square. Movement and blocking sucked. Really weird. 1st fight shows style & range of movement with 3rd showing multiplatform. Talk about ultra-3D.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSvLCDxvcrU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSvLCDxvcrU)

"Soul Calibur pioneered 8-way running in fighting games"

I gave it credit for that. This affect was already in other kinds of games, including my first one for PSX: WCW vs the World. You could run toward any corner or any rope (8 ways). Applying and enhancing something in other games to a new genre is clever. Definitely changed the dynamics a lot. It wasn't going from Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat to Virtua Fighter or Tekken. Or going from 2D wrestling matches with 4-way movement to WVWvW with 3D graphics and 8-way movement. See the difference?

EDIT: Remembered Ergheiz after I wrote the above. So, maybe Soulcalibur pioneered multi-way movement and maybe other one did. You could run, jump, or fly about anywhere in Ehrgeiz just not as smooth mechanics. Soulcalibur improved on and mainstreamed it either way. Both were published by Namco. So, who knows on that.

"consider the party system in the Street Fighter 3 series (Street Fighter 3: 3rd Strike is the most polished of this series, but the previous two had the same mechanic). This apparently simple change to Street Fighter radically changes the tactics available in game. "

I agree. That's a bigger one. Wrestling games, a variant of fighting games, had Tag Team matches going back to the Wrestlemania games in early 90's. They get the innovation there. It was also a distinctly wrestling concept, too, given you would get a WWF or WCW reply if you said "match where teams fight and you tag them in one at a time" to average person watching TV or playing games. So, you've listed two that came out of 3D and 2D wrestling games respectively.

"I believe Phantasy Star Online was the first ever online console RPG."

Diablo, which it drew on, is the prime innovator in that space. Consoles didn't have internet at all or worth a damn before Dreamcast. Nonetheless, you chose a great example here because nobody believed online RPG's were worth it on consoles. They both delivered one and got console gamers into the online service model. Plus expanded market huge for Diablo-like games into consoles. I give this one credit as a game-changer in its niche. Maybe in industry in general tying in consoles to online services. Baby steps toward Xbox Live and such, wouldn't you say?

"Shenmue and Rez"

Out of time for today given fair videos take time to dig up and watch. ;) They're on my list. I plan to get some vids on Phantasy Star, too, as I forgot the visuals. You got any others you heard were game-changing or way ahead of their time on Dreamcast?

<comment><USER11> > ""consider the party system in the Street Fighter 3 series (Street Fighter > 3: 3rd Strike is the most polished of this series, but the previous two had > the same mechanic). This apparently simple change to Street Fighter > radically changes the tactics available in game. "

I agree. That's a bigger one. Wrestling games, a variant of fighting games, had Tag Team matches going back to the Wrestlemania games in early 90's. They get the innovation there. It was also a distinctly wrestling concept, too, given you would get a WWF or WCW reply if you said "match where teams fight and you tag them in one at a time" to average person watching TV or playing games. So, you've listed two that came out of 3D and 2D wrestling games respectively."

Sorry, this is a misunderstanding due to autocorrect on my phone. When I said party I meant parry. Here's a famous video showing the parry system at work, as you can see it has nothing to do with wrestling games.

[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JzS96auqau0](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JzS96auqau0)

Also, regarding 8-way run coming from wrestling games, they aren't the same mechanic. In early wrestling games you need to press a run button to run, and when you do your potential moveset changes. Furthermore, your run is not relative to the other player but rather relative to the ring. This all gives it a completely different feel.

Lastly, Soul Calibur is not in the same lineage as Tekken. As I've already said, Soul Calibur was the sequel to Soul Edge. It's a completely different game series.

>"You got any others you heard were game-changing or way ahead of their time on Dreamcast?"

Before I answer that question, please answer this, do you know of any games that were game-changing or way ahead of their time on PlayStation 1?

<comment><USER9> "When I said party I meant parry. Here's a famous video showing the parry system at work, as you can see it has nothing to do with wrestling games."

That was an awesome vid. The parry system did change the fighting game dynamic a lot. Wrestling games, including WCW vs World, had counter moves for various strikes and grapples. I don't recall them making opponent go backward to deliver arbitrary, normal move. So, SF3's parry's are either original or an enhancement on wrestling counters. Definitely innovative for that kind of audience.

"Also, regarding 8-way run coming from wrestling games, they aren't the same mechanic. In early wrestling games you need to press a run button to run, and when you do your potential moveset changes. Furthermore, your run is not relative to the other player but rather relative to the ring. This all gives it a completely different feel."

That is true. It's why I added Ehrgeiz whose movement makes Soulcalibur look really limited. Maybe I'm misremembering it, though. Look at link below. Scroll past character descriptions to section IV: "basic moves and fighting techniques."

[http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/197216-ehrgeiz/faqs/4749](http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/197216-ehrgeiz/faqs/4749)

You'll see it had full, 8-way, arbitrary movement with 360 degree attack angles possible. Also crouching behind stuff in level, jumping on level, weapons, rolling, ground attacks, counters, tech hits, and instant 180's. It lacked the smooth flow and ease of use of Soulcalibur as players had to, a la Tekken, face the opponent's attack and direction precisely to counter it. So, you felt mastery when gameplay looked like a Soul game.

"Lastly, Soul Calibur is not in the same lineage as Tekken. As I've already said, Soul Calibur was the sequel to Soul Edge. It's a completely different game series."

The old making of soulcalibur writeup said the Tekken 2 team helped make it. It's why I thought it was a sequel to Tekken at first. The SC and TK2 team worked together on it. Presumably reused techniques in codebase from TK2 since they clearly weren't doing the artwork. That's speculation but SC was a team effort that included TK2 team. It's a joint lineage even if separate mechanics and artwork. Don't know why it bothers you as it's more like a good FOSS partly forks or works with another good FOSS to create a perfect-rated FOSS. I plan to replay it in future just cuz you had me look it up.

"Before I answer that question, please answer this, do you know of any games that were game-changing or way ahead of their time on PlayStation 1?"

Metal Gear Solid. Whole volumes written about playing in a movie, enemies' reactions to things, clever ploys by designers, stealth aspect... whole package. Landmark work that only a few tried (and failed) to copy.

WCWvsWorld or WCWvsNWO. Came out same year with similar mechanics including 8-way movement (ring-based as you said), grappling system, counter moves, team matches, weapons from crowd, and so on. NWO probably the innovator here. No Mercy and others copied it. WWF Smackdown would later take 3D wrestling back to fast-moving, high-flying, crazy roots in arcade games. Then, PSX vs N64 debates re their various games were more accurately New PSX vs Old PSX styles but N64 people pled ignorance of WCWvNWO or WCWvW. ;)

Twisted Metal. There's racing games. There's destruction games. There's 3D world games. This combined all three into what I guess was a new genre as people acted like they never saw it before.

Final Fantasy VII. I never played others before it on console so can't say anything to mechanics. Yet, combo of deep story, character development, and custom, classical score matched to events in game made a powerful impression I had never encountered in another game. That combo seems unique, esp leveraging classical for emotional impact. So, it's a maybe but I'm not certain.

Resident Evil. Characters, interesting plot, puzzles, unusual game mechanics, and scary kills pioneered survival horror genre in consoles.

Sports. I recall Playstation had some of first, sports games like NBA that mimicked life-like stuff instead of arcade stuff. I'm not sure if it was first on this but it was first I saw that reminded me of real-life.

Alright. There's a start. Feel free to accept or shoot them down with counterexamples.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Wow cool, so Nintendo survived because the US didn't bomb Kyoto.

I hope we never see that kind of destruction again.

BTW, I bicycled around Kyoto once and could not find any trash, even a straw wrapper. The Kyoto protocol is aptly named. I highly recommend visiting there if you have a chance.

<comment><USER13> Its not just kyoto that does not have trash. Most of places in Japan are very clean (if you dont look too much)

<comment><USER14> I'm visiting at the moment and agree. For a place with so few trash cans it's remarkably free of trash.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Kyoto was spared from the atomic bomb because there was the place where the secretary of war, Henry Stimson, stayed during his honeymoon.

[http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-33755182](http://www.bbc.com/news/world- asia-33755182)

</comment><comment><USER16> One thing I've appreciated more about Nintendo as I've grown older is the culture war that was going on over Mario.

For example, no Mario game ever features Brooklyn, even once. Yet the American movie and cartoon show are all about Mario being from Brooklyn. Then when Mario 3 came out, not only is he not from Brooklyn, but he wears a cat suit and turns into a Buddhist statue. That's a big f __*-you message to America from Japan if I ever saw one. Pretty hilarious.</comment>


Americans do care more about Paris than Lebanon – here's why - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@heoj/americans-do-care-more-about-paris-than-lebanon-here-s-why-e653e0149b4 <comment><USER2> Th whole article is basically saying what is a well known fact that if you share values and culture you feel more affinity. But that's the point of the outrage: empathize for humanity not just for your own kind. At least try. Also nothing for 220+ people dead on Sinai plane because west hates Russia or 100s of 1000s of people dead in the last decade in middle east because they are don't share "western values". Obama sees "humanity" attacked only when terrorists attack the west.</comment>


Ask HN: How much hours of People / Meeting time does your day have? - <AUTHOR> As I get older I find it quite energy draining to meet with people while staying on top my game. How many hours meeting or pairing with other people do have on an average day? What is considered healthy? <comment><USER2> To create a poll you must go to [https://news.ycombinator.com/newpoll](https://news.ycombinator.com/newpoll) (IIRC, you must have 200 karma to use this).

</comment><comment><USER3> > As I get older I find it quite energy draining to meet with people

In a typical day 0–2 hours of meetings working as a developer independent contractor. I don't count occasional DMing on Slack in that figure.

I think this might be more personality-based than age-related. I'm in my mid-20s and have similar feelings about most meetings. The kind of meetings I like and that are really productive for me are short, for a purpose (there are explicit questions one side has for the other), and with a small number of attendees, for me it's typically 1–3. Working with people you really like to be around I think helps as well.

</comment><comment><USER4> 2\. I escape most thanks to a chronic pain condition, meaning sitting in a meeting just doesn't work.

Which means I can get so much more done, that sit there debating "no, we don't want 6 pop up modals as soon as someone arrives at the website" for a solid hour.

However, I do work with someone else who does the meetings, and we have constant back and forth for the whole day.

</comment><comment><USER5> My current team is glorious: 1 hour every other week.

I've been on teams that average 3 hours per day. Honestly I'd bring a laptop and work through them. If there's that much information to distribute, I probably don't care about most of it.

</comment><comment><USER6> I like to have at most 1 hour of meeting/talking with people time per day and at least 12 hours devoted to work, study, and research. I find this is a sensible balance that allows me to stay on top of my tasks.

</comment><comment><USER7> None.

Healthy social time would depend on how well you get along with the people.

I'd say a majority of time would with someone / people you get along very well with would be the most healthy.

</comment><comment><USER8> From 2-3h What really drains my energy are those meetings that don't led me to anything useful. Other than that it's necessary to meet up

</comment><comment><USER9> I do sales and development so it is highly variable. I might be making calls 6 hours a day some weeks, and not make any for another week.

</comment><comment><USER10> I frequently go home realizing I haven't talked for 8 hours. Even as an introverted person, it kind of annoys me.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> 1 hour

</comment><comment><USER11> Two meetings a weeks that last 15-30min

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Thanks all for the feedback.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> 4 hours

</comment><comment><USER12> 30min to hr per week.

</comment><comment><USER13> 15 minutes to 1 hour.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> 8 or more hours

</comment><comment><USER14> 1

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> 2 hours

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> 3 hours

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> 5 hours

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> 6 hours

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> 7 hours</comment>


Ask HN: any white-label/SaaS virtual-currency/"MyPoints" services out there? - <AUTHOR>

Example: MailChimp has some sort of "credit" system and many major sites are rolling their own.
Especially for the long tail of start-ups, this isn't always feasible but would be Really Valuable to have -- certainly for a feasible monthly fee. This is because smaller players depend a lot more on user contributions to grow the value of their offerings for the customer base as a whole.
Translated my Shareware into your language? That will make you 500 X. Signed up for our newsletter? That's 50. Following on Twitter or "Fanned" on Facebook? Another 50.
At the same time it would be awesome for the solution to translate these points back into value for those who have it. X points then get you another n months of "free" premium support, n additional users for your license or a discount of n for your license upgrade --- or whatever value is being exchanged.
Of course, ultimately it would be even better if these "points programs" (which would be like Ning networks -- everyone can roll their own or join an existing program) could allow for inter-currency trade. If you lost interest in the benefits my company can offer for your points, maybe you can trade them in with another provider who is willing to participate.
I know that originally money is the ultimate currency for exchanging value, services or goods. At the same time there's this psychological resistance about money. For the recipient, it immediately brings external motivation into something you were about to do anyway for intrinsic reasons, and you have to start doing calculations and get out of the "flow of doing something worthwhile just for its own sake" -- whereas, if you just get "brownie points" those are simply nice to have around and enjoy their value at a later point, without being all economical about it. For the other party, they wouldn't pay money for newsletter signups or social followers but they know that ultimately these do have monetary value for them, they just don't and can't know the exact figures. So that's why even though I acknowledge the "supremacy of real money" for most serious transactions, I see a great need for and great value in this.
Virtual currencies and brownie-point credit systems have proven their case, and now what we need is a white label / Ning-like "roll your own" provider.
Do you know of any startup or other entity working in that space, or existing services providing a sub-set of the above requirements?
Apart from monthly recurring income, I see revenue potentials for everything else you can do with virtual currencies. Just like PayPal, you can "keep a cut" of every "transaction", and then later hopefully somehow convert it even back into real money, or at least cash in on some of the stuff the brownie points get you in your own system.
Why don't I do it myself? I ran into this need while working on something else -- and I don't intend to abandon it, or cut down on my time investments for that at the moment. If I started developing this myself, I might get caught in just a similar situation with another need then coming up. Ideally I want to learn about existing solutions -- or about anyone doing this -- or about anyone having read this who is fired up enough about the idea to get started on building a prototype for this  ;)
Thanks for listening... <comment><USER2> i just took on a contract job to build a "reward points" system for an event dating service. The business is handled mainly by an email list. Events are planned and promoted via the list. Company makes money on ticket sales. The owner wanted a way to reward members for attending events, and referring friends. Great idea that is sure to pay off I think. So this concept definitely has relevance.

I want to say that I think initially the scope should be very very small. Instead of trying to develop an alternate currency and exchange marketplace, why not just laser in on a _"dead-simple"_ api type service that tracked user accounts, methods of reward, products available for purchase, and a shopping cart system that allowed members to exchange earned points for products available. +1 for the automatic fulfillment of digital goods. Course this all off just thought exploration but I think the simpler the better since a lot more "low tech" businesses could benefit from this as opposed to code-ninjas that would just want to roll their own in the proverbial weekend anyway.

In a nutshell: Don't underestimate how many businesses rely on the simplicity of an email list to run their business. Add rewards system as an integration to mailchimp, campaignmonitor, icontact, hell constant contact and you've got something worth testing at least.

I'm on board if anyone wants to talk about it.

</comment><comment><USER3> We need to talk ASAP. firstname.lastname@example.com (Normally I'd email, but there isn't a direct one in your profile).

<comment><AUTHOR> Just dropped you a line!

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> BigDoor Media offers exactly this type of solution. www.bigdoor.com.</comment>


Ask HN: Why haven't ultralight aircraft improved over the past several decades? - <AUTHOR> My impression is that the production and invention of ultralight aircraft designs have died down over the past few decades, and that modern designs have not substantially improved. I'm curious to know if  anyone has insight into why. <comment><USER2> My brother said it has to do with liability outcomes in court in the late 70s and early 80s. Maybe a lead..</comment>


Ask HN: New professionals in America, how was establishing credit? - <AUTHOR> Hey everyone,
Im Canadian and was a software engineer in the Bay Area with no American credit history. I couldn't be approved for a credit card and had a hard time building credit effectively for a long time.
I was wondering if other people had similar experiences and what they did to overcome them?
Disclaimer: I'm also working on solving this issue and would love to hear your experiences!
Thank you! <comment><USER2> I had that exact problem, I had to settle for a secured credit card which wasnt the best experience.. $1000 security deposit and fees.

I'd could talk more in depth if you would like!

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah.. I definitely feel you.. I almost settled for a secured card as well, not ideal at all

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Credit Stacks ([https://www.creditstacks.com/](https://www.creditstacks.com/)) came to my rescue and I have been using their card since two years.

<comment><AUTHOR> If you don't mind me asking, what credit limit did you get approved for and what features do they offer?

I applied for a discover and was approved for only $500 :(

<comment><USER3> I was given a 5000$ limit to start with.

<comment><AUTHOR> Wow thats pretty good!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I got lucky and had someone co sign so I started out with chase. I realize not many ppl will have co-signers and it's not the most feasible route</comment>


Trunk.ly launches a Hacker News connector - <AUTHOR> http://blog.trunk.ly/trunkly-launches-a-hacker-news-connector

<comment><AUTHOR> Background: Trunk.ly is a social bookmarking service that is highly automated and powered by full-text search. For example, you connect it to Twitter, Trunk.ly automatically extracts the links you share and crawls them building a search index for you.

We decided to release a connector to Hacker News for Trunk.ly and scratch our own itch.

The Hacker News connector scrapes anything appearing under "saved stories" and adds the source link into Trunk.ly, indexing it so you can always easily find the link again.

A couple of quick notes - we know that this is NOT the most secure solution in the world. To do this, we have to scrape the site on a regular interval as you. So we have to store your username and password. We encrypt this and take other general precautions, but I highly recommend that you use a different password for HN from other sites as an additional precaution.

It would be great if there was some nice "third party" way of accessing that useful content, either via OAuth or even just using some API key or something.

There are some limitations: * we don't back crawl every story you've ever saved as this could be a large number of pages and we don't want to harm the server. We limit it to the last 200 stories total. * we only support the default HN username and password (no clickpass). We can do click pass if enough people want it. * there is no submission date I could see to scrape, so stories will be stored in Trunk.ly as at todays date.

Let us know what you think.

Credit: Partially based on the work of <https://github.com/edparcell/HNScraper></comment>


Ask HN: Software Developer to Software Recruiter - <AUTHOR>

I am a software developer who has seen the best and worst of recruiters from the perspective of candidate and employer. After a lot of soul searching, I have made the highly controversial decision to start my own recruitment business specialising in software development which uses my technical knowledge and experiences and the proliferation of technology based recruitment startups & technologies to provide a service that I think is much more fitting than what is being provided by the majority of recruiters. I have done a few placements and I have learnt an awful lot but I still want to hear suggestions as to what people consider an ideal service.
I understand a lot of coders would never make this choice and that I may have already committed software career suicide for myself if I ever want to return to the industry as a coder, but I feel that I can really add some value to the software community by doing this. For now, I am running it in the conventional recruitment model but as I gain momentum I hope to introduce more technology, more input into the companies' hiring processes and ongoing talent attraction, more guidance to candidates who are not quite ready yet and hopefully more value for everyone concerned.
Opinions and suggestions, please! <comment><USER2> You may want to read this: [http://blog.alinelerner.com/if-youre-an-engineer- who-wants-t...](http://blog.alinelerner.com/if-youre-an-engineer-who-wants-to- start-a-recruiting-business-read-this-first/)

And reach out to Aline.

<comment><AUTHOR> Interesting read - much of what she writes in this post echoes exactly what I have experienced. Thanks for sharing - I will get in contact with Aline.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I am often encouraged to do this myself; there are many who tell me that I'd be quite a good recruiter. I know lots of ways recruiters could be a better job.

For example don't say "I hear you" when you really didn't. Not you personally but there is a recruiter I've been talking to who says that quite a lot.

The reason I don't is that I regard recruiting as something that a company should do internally. That is, even a staffing agency would find you good employees, it's better for your company to find them itself.

Even so, sometimes I entertain the idea. I have lots of ideas for things I could do that to the best of my knowledge no other recruiter does.

<comment><AUTHOR> I agree in that I believe companies should do their own recruiting and many of the best do. But there are many employers who have a lot of potential who just don't prioritise or want to spend the time doing the sourcing. Maybe this is indicative of a poor company culture. Maybe they just need to be shown how to market themselves.</comment></comment>


Hertz files for U.S. bankruptcy protection as car rentals evaporate in pandemic - <AUTHOR> https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/hertz-bankruptcy-car-rental-1.5581850 <comment><USER2> Discussion: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23279327](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23279327)</comment>


HKSAR Government issues statement on Edward Snowden - <AUTHOR> http://www.info.gov.hk/gia/general/201306/23/P201306230476.htm <comment><USER2> My opinion of the HK SAR, which has always been quite high, just went up a couple of notches.

I hope Snowden finds asylum and can live a reasonably comfortable life. He's a patriot. I'm a US citizen and I'm pro-US but this bullshit has to stop.

<comment><USER3> > He's a patriot

Daniel Ellsberg is a patriot.

Edward Snowden crossed the line a long time ago when he fled to China to reveal more than domestic surveillance but foreign intelligence activities.

I'm probably just as indignant as you are about the domestic surveillance, but the activities of Snowden started out as patriotism, but very quickly crossed into defection.

tldr - champions of human rights don't flee to china & russia. Those places are where defecting spies go.

<comment> grey-area I don't agree with you, but have given you an upvote as the downvoting was not justified. I wish people wouldn't use downvotes just because they disagree with a post or think it is false - it stifles discussion and leads to the tyranny of a loud majority, not to the debate on these issues which is so sorely needed.

BTW here's why I disagree - apart from the widespread domestic surveillance already admitted the NSA has used dragnet foreign surveillance from other five eyes nations like the UK to spy on American communications with no suspicion of wrongdoing, and has attempted dragnet surveillance in other nations like China (text messages). All of those things deserve debate - even on foreign surveillance the NSA should not have a free hand IMHO - they're supposed to _target_ enemies of the US, not engage in blanket surveillance - that's a dangerous and massive expansion of their powers and in the hands of a president like Nixon would be truly terrifying. It also undermines the position of the US in the world and allows nations like China to indulge in cyberattacks with absolutely no moral high ground for the US.

Re where Snowdon goes, I think that has far more to do with pragmatism that his wish-list of most desired countries - from his own words I think he would have preferred to stay in the US and fight this if he felt he'd be given a fair trial, but that has been made impossible by the calls of traitor from the current administration (what they mean of course is traitor to the NSA and administration, not to the country, but those two are confounded).

The alternative interpretation of his actions is that a champion of human rights has been obliged to flee the US and seek refuge with enemies of the US, because he risks imprisonment without bail, torture and indefinite detention at home (all of those have been used in the war on terror in the last decade). It is quite credible that he wouldn't be allowed to state his case or argue his defence as Ellsberg did, and in fact Ellsberg agrees with him on that, and the treatment of Manning justifies his fears. So maybe champions of human rights do now flee the US?

<comment><USER3> I do appreciate your response. Thanks.

On your first point, I barely disagree with you at all.

The second point is where I feel like no one is paying much attention: For me personally, the irony of criticizing the US on unethical activities from the patronage of countries that routinely and violently trample the human rights of their citizens completely destroys and legitimacy of the broader point he's trying to make.

And your third point is also disturbing and true. I don't disagree.

Edit: BTW, my above post all day long has been hovering between +5 upvotes to -5 votes. It's the wildest ride I've seen on an HN thread ever :)

<comment><USER4> > _For me personally, the irony of criticizing the US on unethical activities > from the patronage of countries that routinely and violently trample the > human rights of their citizens completely destroys and legitimacy of the > broader point he 's trying to make._

Interesting. For me, it doesn't destroy credibility and legitimacy at all. Nor does it smell of defection. The irony, however, is what is most tangible. If we have, through the actions of our intelligence agencies, reached a point where American citizens must flee the country and take refuge in a traditionally maligned foreign power to effectively _protect_ the Constitution and the People, it is a clarion call for the need to make a full stop, publicly work out these problems, and get ourselves back on the right track. If protecting constitutional and human rights requires one to flee a nation that champions those causes publicly, but prosecutes their defenders privately, we have a serious problem.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> What a wonderful press release. Compare this to the UK government's small-dog- loud-bark assertion that Snowden _" is not welcome here... you know, just in case he was thinking about coming..."_ and the relative certainty that he would have been arrested _instantly_ upon arrival here. What does that say?

<comment><USER6> it says _lapdog_

<comment><USER7> The UK would rather be a member of the US than the EU.

<comment><USER8> > The UK Government would rather be a member of the US than the EU.

FTFY

<comment><USER9> > The _elected_ UK Government would rather be a member of the US than the EU.

<comment><USER10> Not quite. No one voted for the coalition.

<comment><USER7> That's not quite how parliamentary system works. You don't vote for the executive government. Never has, never will. Even before the Coalition, did anyone vote for Tony Blair to be prime minister? Technically, that is.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I believe they are paraphrasing Rage Against the Machine:

Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me.

edit: It's also a brilliant commentary on the rule of law, and due process rights.

<comment><USER12> Best official government PR ever. I literally LOL'd when I got to the "fuck you" at the end. How did I, a patriotic American, enter this bizarro world where I find my self rooting for the Chinese government?

<comment><USER13> It's the HKSAR government, not the Chinese government (NPC). It's important to note that they are quite different.

<comment><USER12> Agreed, I worked in PRC for several years and HK for a few months. I am well aware that HK has some degree of autonomy from China. I chose to write Chinese government for emphasis on the irony. Had I confused Taiwan and China, I could see the need for a correction. I hope it does not lead to a nuanced off-topic discussion.

<comment><USER14> > I am well aware that HK has _some degree_ of autonomy

More like a _great deal_ of autonomy, for the time being. Except for military and foreign affairs (and perhaps immigration? not sure) in which areas China has authority, outside of those HKSAR is highly autonomous.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Wow, I bet Hong Kong is thrilled that a technicality allowed Snowden to leave their turf and free them from a potential diplomatic headache... meanwhile defending the right to privacy of their citizens...

<comment><USER16> Even if there was not a technicality, HK would have invented one to allow Snowden to move on. Read the release, HK is now asking for clarification about the hacking attacks against HK by the US. Looks like the really wanted him to leave and did not want to assist the US.

<comment><USER15> I agree--a reason could be invented. If you read between the lines, they seem pretty pissed at the US about the hacking. Letting Snowden catch his flight is payback.

<comment><USER16> Imagine learning of all this hacking against your state, and then the state that did all that hacking demanded things from you and made a threat that relations would be harmed if you did not comply quick enough. Thats what the US just did to HK. US is acting like a giant bully at the moment.

<comment><USER17> Err... The Chinese aren't saintly when it comes to the hacking of foreign governments.

<comment><USER13> Sure but the HKSAR are not known for doing any hacking and this was between the HKSAR and the USA.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> I love living in this time where most countries can tell USA government, to go fuck themselves. This wasn't always the case.

<comment><USER14> Arguably it was the case for most of US history, except the few decades after winning WW2 and worldwide USD deployment ;)

<comment><USER19> The Allies won WW2, Russia arguably sacrificed the most - the US benefited from the Allies victory and the decline of the British empire to assert near- global economic and military hegemony.

<comment><USER14> Yeah that's what I mean by "winning, as in _winning_ ".. ;)

Ah well OK you're right..

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> "Since the documents provided by the US Government did not fully comply with the legal requirements under Hong Kong law"

Sounds like they took the NSA's line right out of their mouths: "Many of the requests that you forwarded to this office do not contain a complete mailing address. Therefore, we cannot respond to those requests..." ([http://www.mynsarecords.com/blog/2013-06-21-nsa-please- stop-...](http://www.mynsarecords.com/blog/2013-06-21-nsa-please-stop-sending- us-foia-requests/))

</comment><comment><USER21> I find the high praise for the HK government very odd. Basically they told Snowden they'd stall for him (docs are missing page 4 - please resubmit) but he'd better hit the road fast. Worry about a domestic audience they add "With zero leverage now we promise to follow up on snooping." That will of course go no where.

The Chinese do not want to set the precedent that governments should ignore extradition treaties and thus harbor fugitives wanted on national security issues.

I don't blame the HK gov - just question some of the responses here.

<comment><USER22> I think a lot of HNers who live in Western countries (myself included) are so jaded with our respective governments subservience to the US that it's very nice for once to see a small country not immediately bend over and lube up the minute the US asks it to.

<comment><USER23> > _it 's very nice for once to see a small country not immediately bend over > and lube up the minute the US asks it to._

Ah, but Hong Kong is not like any other small country. It is an autonomous region of China, which just happens to be the second most-powerful country in the world.

The United States can put an unlimited amount of diplomatic and economic pressure on a small country. They can keep ratcheting up the pressure until the small country has no choice but to give in. So you might as well give in right away, and avoid upsetting the Americans.

In contrast, the United States can only put a limited amount of pressure on Hong Kong. If the US were to go too far, then Beijing could intervene.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> The pairing of the statement about Snowden with an inquiry into government sponsored hacking is telling about their attitude and reasons for not being super cooperative.

<comment><USER25> Exactly. The only way this could have read more like a "Fuck you, don't hack us and then ask for our help" is if they claimed there would be some delay in arresting him because they have taken a lot of computer systems offline for a comprehensive security audit in light of the revelations.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> Translation: "Fuck You"

</comment><comment><USER27> They should've put Facebook Like button there.

</comment><comment><USER28> The response here seems overwhelmingly positive. And to some extent I get that. But it does make me nervous to see escalating tensions between major world powers. Especially when there were already tensions from the war in Syria.

<comment><USER29> You're right, it's a little worrisome.

But the criminals in the US government are finally, finally being made to sweat a little, and more is on the way. This is like porn to me. There may actually be some real hope and change under Obama. And "no such agency" may become a reality. Go! Go! Go!

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Shit just got real. The US gov't will now respond with a strongly-worded letter.

</comment><comment><USER30> My comments would be limited to "FUCK YEAH!"

<comment><USER31> I believe that this is what it says, in no uncertain terms.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> The US government is letting this turn to a huge trainwreck for them.

<comment><USER6> Which seems to be a trend for them. Yet another example showing that the US gov't is no longer by the people, for the people.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> Powerful use of "Meanwhile"

</comment><comment><USER34> The cheering for HK in this thread is interesting, when the end result was not that positive. Snowden had to leave the place that I believe he hoped to be a safe haven for him, and now he is quite literally on the run again.

<comment><USER35> My impression has been that HK was always only intended as a first stop. I don't know if he had a specific end destination, but I don't think he considered HK as the end destination.

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> _" Meanwhile, the HKSAR Government has formally written to the US Government requesting clarification on earlier reports about the hacking of computer systems in Hong Kong by US government agencies. The HKSAR Government will continue to follow up on the matter so as to protect the legal rights of the people of Hong Kong."_

That paragraph, included in this very same release, says all they need to say about how he got out of the country. HK knew it couldn't offer safe harbor for him given the economic ties of itself and China to the US, but they obviously offered him safe passage. Snowden's strategy of letting his host country know what we had done to them actually worked.

</comment><comment><USER37> They use a terrible font in that web, oh.. my eyes!

</comment><comment><USER38> Smart move!

</comment><comment><USER39> It is interesting to read the commentary here. Some of you here are US citizens. You do realize that you are supporting a person, who is basically a foreign agent and now a pawn in the hands of two foreign powers who themselves engage in cyber attacks all over the world.

However, your responses are not new or novel. During the second world war the Nazi government took anti-war protests in the US to mean that public opinion was firmly against any intervention. What they did not count on was the fickleness of public opinion.

I suspect many of you here will, in case a real war breaks out, be heading for a recruiting station. People are funny things.

<comment><USER40> I don't think your comment deserved the merciless level of downvotes it received. I too personally find it strange that leaks about US activities against foreign powers are receiving as much support as leaks about US activities against its own citizens.

<comment><USER41> As an American citizen, I feel it is of paramount importance to know what "our" government is doing in our name.

Especially since a lot of it seems to be poorly considered, unethical, and somewhat intended to benefit a few at the expense of the many.

<comment><USER40> Yes, this is a strong counter point.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


How KitKat 4.4 Killed Android - <AUTHOR> http://beranger.org/2014/01/30/how-kitkat-4-4-killed-android-and-google-keeps-screwing-things/

<comment><USER2> Damn, that Android sure is dead this time. It'a twice as dead as the last time it was killed, and that was pretty tough.

> This ability, which has existed since the beginning of Android, has been > taken away.

So, I assume Android users will flock to that other mobile OS, which has always be known to be a shining beacon of freedom and interoperability.

</comment><comment><USER3> This is really stupid, and I'm not excusing the change, but users can still remove the external SD card from the Android device, write to it, and reinsert it into the device, to hold, say, music or media files.

</comment><comment><USER4> Basically, apps will be restricted to their own bit of the SD card, they can still use it, just not put things in there all willy-nilly. That sounds great to me.

</comment><comment><USER5> This looks like it's tightening up the app sandbox in a way that is consistent with non-removable storage.

This article in the Android docs has been revised to reflect the change: [http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/data/data- storage....](http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/data/data-storage.html)</comment>


Ask HN: What kind of work can I do for 8 months? - <AUTHOR> Hi, I'm a long-time HN reader, but first time posting!
TL;DR: I am a data scientist, working in finance (quant). I just left my old work, but cannot start my new job until perhaps as late as May 2020 (January if I'm lucky). What kind of work could I do in a short time like this?
The reasons for why I cannot start my new job are boring, legal, and frankly upsetting - so never mind. I can, however, work outside finance. But what kind of skilled, data-or-programming-related job can I do for 6-8 months? I'm not asking for specific job offers or suggestions (though these are welcome too), rather, what modes of work make sense in the timeframe? Contracting? Do any companies hire data analysts short-term? Can I make any headway with a side project / startup in such a short period? I definitely want to start my new job next year, so not looking for something long-term, and I wouldn't want to mislead a potential employer/client into thinking otherwise.
Here, I'm thinking of paid, or deeply meaningful unpaid work. I have savings to see me through, but I could do with some kind of income over this period.
For context, I have a sciency degree, 7 years' experience of data and programming, generally numerate and pretty good at what I do. I'm also good at Python, though no 10x developer for sure.
Many thanks in advance for all your help! <comment><USER2> There's absolutely a market for data analysis on a contract basis. For instance: a startup that doesn't have enough work for a full time analyst indefinitely but needs to pull together a whole bunch of reports over a month or two to support an effort to raise funding.</comment>


Hiring Software Engineers - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@kwindla/hiring-software-engineers-98498cf6f2a#.hpt883a9n <comment><USER2> Great roadmap for startups to follow. Much of the writing about hiring software engineers comes from larger companies, and in my experience don't seem like reasonable processes for small companies.

Two questions: 1) Do you think the large coding assignment eliminates good candidates? I'd be concerned that after one phone interview, good candidates might not be invested enough to spend that kind of time.

2) What are your thoughts on behavioral / situational interviews? We've been doing one where we ask deeper questions about the candidate's previous roles, what they liked and didn't, what they think good vs bad teams and process look like, etc. Do you think these are valuable, and if so are you doing them during the in-person interview stage?

<comment><AUTHOR> My experience is that the programming exercise never deterred a candidate I really wanted to interview. That might be a little surprising, but I always work very hard to make sure there's a good conversation in the initial phone screen, so I think that helps a lot. Also, programmers (myself included) always underestimate how much time it will take to write a given piece of code, so maybe that helps, too!

I do think it's valuable to talk about previous experience in the ways you suggest -- what do good teams/processes look like, etc. I usually try to do that in a pretty casual way, during the in-person interview, and have those conversations bleed over into the lunch/dinner discussion, too. Basically, I'm interested in learning about how a person thinks about their work. And introspection about team dynamics is definitely part of that.

<comment><USER3> You might not have that experience, but I've seen otherwise. A company I worked for hosted an on-site two hour coding exercise (they gave you a computer, some boilerplate code, and a several tasks that were complete when you passed their unit tests) that was outlined during the phone interview so candidates knew what to expect.

But while I worked the boss would regularly complain about people refusing to do the onsite exam, people cancelling last minute, people refusing the exam once they were shown what they were about to do, people excusing themselves in the middle of the exam and ditching, etc.

These are people with 5-10 years of experience on their resumes given to him by recruiters.

I personally thought the test was a little overwhelming (not hard, just too much considering the intense pressure of an interview) but I managed to get through it, and so did everyone else he had hired up to that point. He churned through a lot of people, though.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> That's a terrific JavaScript exercise, and sounds like a lot of fun. My only concern about the process would be the in-person interview. I recently flew from LA to the East coast for an all-day interview session, and the experience was miserable. My flight was delayed for hours, I got into my hotel at 1AM, I was sleep-deprived, jet-lagged, and exhausted for the entire process, and then I had to rush to catch my flight back as soon as I wrapped up. The flights averaged out at 6 hours in each direction, so I spent 12 hours in the air within a 24-hour period. Not fun, but a great way to ensure your candidate is at his/her weakest during the interviews. :)

<comment><AUTHOR> Ouch. Yeah, that's a really good point about travel being both a big commitment/energy-drain on your end, and a bad travel experience making it really hard to interview well.

I have, in the past, flown someone who is coming cross-country out for the weekend, covered the hotel costs for the whole time, done something non- structured on Saturday or Sunday, then done the interview on Monday. And a few times people have brought family members. (We didn't pay for the family travel, I don't think, but I don't remember for sure.)

<comment><USER4> Nice! That's really considerate of you. I'm sure your candidates appreciate the extra time and I bet the Monday conversations are of higher quality, too.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> When I was at Shutterstock I got a resume that followed everything to a T, including a lovely code sample. A bit of googling revealed that it had been copied line-for-line from an IBM blog. That one went down in the books :-)

During the in-person interviews, I like to focus on getting folks talking about something they are excited about. It can be hard to get comfortable in an interview for some folks, and it's paid off a good handful of times for me to make significant effort getting there. Especially with candidates who downplay their own experiences, who can easily be overlooked.</comment>


Email-Address leaked from Dropbox - <AUTHOR> http://forums.dropbox.com/topic.php?page=4&id=64367&replies=111#post-455535 <comment><USER2> It might be a good idea for large companies like Dropbox--or frankly, anyone storing email addresses--to include a handful of (long, random, unguessable) canary addresses in their user DB which sound a high alarm if they ever receive email.

</comment><comment><USER3> Just two wild guesses from my side, as I don't think that the whole database got compromised:

1\. Some Accounts got compromised (phishing, trojan, whatever). In those account a list of all referral email-addresses can be seen. Those addresses have been targeted.

2\. The Dropbox Application stores information about the email-addresses of people you have a shared folder with somewhere on your machine. This data got accessed by some kind of malware. Maybe this information could also be accessed trough the webinterface of compromised accounts (I am not sure about that).

Even a small-ish number of compromised accounts could lead to many addresses being leaked. I for example have about 15 referals and share folders with about 50 people.

</comment><comment><USER4> It's not certain that these leaks were FROM Dropbox. These might well be but there is no confirmation of this. This was discussed here a few days ago.

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4255927>

<comment><USER5> Further down the thread, someone just started receiving spam in his dropbox@hisdomain address. I assume that the address was exclusively used for Dropbox...

He receives the exact same spam at his linkedin@hisdomain, which was previously leaked.

A coincidence is always possible, but the timing is suspicious.

<comment><USER6> If you read the whole thread, there are many people with "dropbox only" e-mail addresses that are being spammed, including some that are claiming that the address does not include the word "dropbox".

<comment><USER7> Are these people aware of the Rumplestiltskin strategy? dropbox@, linkedin@ both fit that, but what about the other addresses? Unless your e-mail address resembles what's currently considered a Strong password, you're going to get spam.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> This has not been confirmed. As Dropbox has stated, they are still investigating.

</comment><comment><USER9> Hope my spam filter can handle any higher tides that might result from this.</comment>


Ask HN: Musicians? - <AUTHOR>

What instrument(s) do you play, and what's your level of involvement?<p>The Jargon File's entry on music (http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/M/music.html) suggests that music is a "common extracurricular" among hackers. Is this still true? <comment><USER2> My pet theory is that playing a musical instrument is less common a hobby among programmers now than it was a generation ago, because now programming tends to be associated with "Computer Science" as its own discipline, rather than a subdiscipline of math.

Near the end of this interview [<http://tex.loria.fr/historique/interviews/knuth-clb1993.html>], Don Knuth says that one way CS graduate students have changed since the 70s is that they are less interested in music:

"What changes have you seen in the students coming into the computer science program over the years?"

" _Knuth_ : There is a very profound change that I can't account for. In the 70s, the majority of our students were very interested in music. The first thing we'd ask them when they came in was 'What instrument do you play?' We had lots of chamber groups and so on. Now almost none of the students are interested in music. I don't know if it's because a different kind of people are enrolling in computer science, or because it's true of all today's students, or what. If you ask computer science students now what their hobby is, the chances are most of them will say 'Bicycling'. I recently had one who played a harmonica, but there were almost no musicians in the group."

<comment><USER3> _My pet theory is that playing a musical instrument is less common a hobby among programmers now than it was a generation ago, because now programming tends to be associated with "Computer Science" as its own discipline, rather than a subdiscipline of math._

I'd say you have that backwards. Mathematicians and Computer Scientists have always been interested in music; but Programmers haven't. These days if you look around a computer science department -- at least, if you look at the students -- you'll be looking mostly at programmers, not at computer scientists.

When I was in Oxford, I saw a mix of "people interested in computer science" and "people interested in programming" -- and as far as I could tell, every one of the CS people was interested in music, while not even one of the programmers was.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Regarding music and hacking. Personally, music theory and the compositional techniques I learned as a student "feel" very similar to hacking: writing an examination fugue in the style of J.S.Bach involves complex thinking and problem solving within a (semi) formal system with an additional (and essential) appreciation of conciseness, grace, style and aesthetic.

Also, hacking music is fun! When I was learning to program I wrote a little app to solve species counterpoint problems with a genetic algorithm. Although not always up to "human" results (especially fifth species counterpoint) the "solutions" were always fun to listen to. ;-)

As for me: I'm a tuba player - a graduate of the Royal College of Music with an academic (rather than performance based) undergraduate music degree. I also play organ and piano. I still play regularly and was recently a soloist with a local orchestra in a performance of the Vaughan William's concerto. Life without music would be unbearable... :-/

<comment><USER5> You just brought back a pleasant memory. Back in my C64 days I wrote a program that created Bach inventions. One of my few early hacker accomplishments that impressed my non-techie parents.

For anybody who doesn't know what that is, here's Bach's most famous:

[http://video.aol.com/video-detail/js-bach- invention-13-rendi...](http://video.aol.com/video-detail/js-bach- invention-13-rendition-guitar-a-solo-duet/118949678)

(Originally written for the harpsichord I believe.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> I am the lead singer in a Kiss tribute band. Everybody with low self esteem should try singing in a metal band.

We don't use guitars, but have good tuba and violin players. I also play keyboard: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7DgpSddLiU>

</comment><comment><USER7> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1phz4-G1tc>

I wrote the music and played the guitar and bass.

</comment><comment><USER8> I mess around on the piano, which I bought this last year. Love it to death, it's great to just play when you need a break. (BTW I cannot recommend the Yamaha GT2 enough).

I'm absolutely terrible at reading music, but I can play anything by ear, I wonder if that's usual for hacker types.

<http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=y6UPJJqwc1k>

<comment><USER5> > I can play anything by ear, I wonder if that's usual for hacker types.

I think it has more to do with how you learned the instrument. Most classically trained pianists I know couldn't sound out a Doors tune to save their life. On the other hand, once I started playing in bands, just about everybody I met could listen to a song and have it figured out within an hour.

I (a hacker type) was better than most classically trained types at sounding out music, but still had difficulties compared to most people in the band circuit. I usually couldn't really nail a part unless I found the music in a magazine somewhere. (this was pre-Internet, today this wouldn't be an issue)

<comment><USER9> I have very little training myself, but my grandmother is a "classically trained type". She was a cellist at Oberlin Conservatory and has perfect pitch. I can send her into another room while I hit six keys on a piano and she can name all the notes. I can kick a metal garbage can and she can say what notes the resulting sound are closest to. While I was studying piano for a short time myself, I tested her abilities pretty thoroughly. Writing out (or just playing) a pop song is trivial for someone like that.

From what she's said to me, those skills weren't _that_ exceptional. Many good strings players have perfect pitch, and even those who don't or those who play other instruments have excellent relative pitch. I don't see how a classically trained pianist would have problems with a Doors tune, especially considering how few chord progressions pop songs use.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Electronic music producer, here.

The unofficial rule is: if you're a Flash programmer, you also create electronic music.

</comment><comment><USER3> I play violin; I'm currently the concertmaster in the best non-professional orchestra in Vancouver.

</comment><comment><USER11> I've played guitar for years, not bad but I'll never be great. Just a bit of a hobby, something manual to pick up and play with when I'm not coding.

</comment><comment><USER12> I'm the lead guitar for Ann Arbor-based rock band, Moment of Inertia (we all happen to be engineers... computer, electrical, mechanical, and aerospace between the 4 of us).

<http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8umukDN_PVE>

We've been a band for 5 years now, and this is definitely my top activity right after running our startup and right before autocrossing (oh, and my girlfriend fits somewhere in there too).

</comment><comment><USER13> I can play both violin and Bb clarinet; I started both in elementary school. However, I only play violin now in high school.

From your link: _"music: n. A common extracurricular interest of hackers..."_

This definition is not just limited to just playing an instrument, though. It also talks about music appreciation and genres of music.

To strictly follow that definition, try asking if we are significantly involved with music in some way.

</comment><comment><USER14> I played woodwind instruments all through middle and high school. I started on the clarinet, then the alto and tenor saxophones, and the bassoon as well. I was quite proficient and seriously considered majoring in bassoon performance in college but I decided to pursue CS instead. Unfortunately I haven't played seriously since I graduated high school and I miss it dearly. I really should find a used Tenor somewhere and pick it up again.

</comment><comment><USER15> 14 years of piano lessons. Also clarinet and saxaphone and I'll mess around with just about everything else.

When I told my piano teacher that I was going to school for engineering and got into the pre-med program (as opposed to music), she was in total shock and her immediate response was, "wait... are you smart?"

</comment><comment><USER16> Fingerstyle guitar. <http://peterkeane.com>

</comment><comment><USER17> I play the classical guitar as a hobby(other than programming). Still learning now. Now I'm performing for free at old folk's homes during festivals. That's much more meaningful than playing it alone in my room.

</comment><comment><USER18> I've been playing guitar and singing for a good number of years. I'm working on my second music video. It's the song Patience by Guns n' Roses. My first music video was Across the Universe by the Beatles. I don't have very good "stage presence" in my first video but the one I'm working on now will be much better. Here's my first video:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7zro5VpUf0&feature=chann...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7zro5VpUf0&feature=channel_page)

</comment><comment><USER19> Took piano lessons until 8th grade, in 9th grade picked up guitar on my own, learned to play by ear, I'm pretty decent albeit a casual player. I don't play in bands much, just jam around with friends, and I know I don't have the chops to be a professional. Music is a great thing to geek out with, you can really be a music gearhead just like with computer equipment. I'm especially interested in digital audio workstation (DAW) technology, it's a perfect blend of computer science and music.

<comment><USER19> <http://www.tshaddox.com/?cat=10> Some compositions of mine (mp3 downloads). A modest piano composition of mine: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPS1DDVenrk>

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> I have played violin since I was very young, and more recently viola. I've been interested recently in electric violin/viola, but I haven't gotten to try them yet.

</comment><comment><USER20> Played bass guitar for 8 years, and also have done a ton of audio recording and engineering - recording bands live and in the studio, wore a bunch of different hats on film and video projects, and did audio for some high-profile art installations.

It's not my day job, but music is my main serious hobby outside of work, and particularly with the music recording I've recorded literally in the 100's of bands over the last decade or so.

</comment><comment><USER21> I actively play guitar and electric bass - I fool around on banjo, mandolin, and drums. I'm also currently learning to play cello. I find that playing/writing music often times gets me through a tough coding problem more quickly than thinking about it directly. I'm also likely one of those people who Knuth mentioned as I have pretty serious interests in the mathematics behind computation.

</comment><comment><USER22> Guitar. taught lessons to get thru h.s. and college (Best job ever for a punk kid who happens to be punctual.) Went on the road for a few years with a band (Best job ever for a beginning hacker (lots of time in the van with a laptop.)) After that I got a "real programming job" and built copies of vintage gear as a hobby. Now i'm in a working cover band and in a few experimental things.

</comment><comment><USER23> I play in the church band every other week, that week involves 3 hours of practice and a 5/6 song set. I highly recommend this as this setting includes other people who require you to participate, and encourage you to play well.

Almost everyone in our band has a bachelor's degree, some have grad school, and there are a couple PhDs and an MBA. Some of the musicians are amazing.

</comment><comment><USER24> I actively play guitar, bass, and drums. Have been playing guitar all my life.

I can play piano and violin.

I like playing around with sequencers, I have some very quickly made tracks up at <http://last.fm/music/kaens> , probably some stuff with more time put into it up in a few weeks.

</comment><comment><USER25> I've always wanted to play the guitar, and bought an electric (LP-style) when I turned 18. Tried teaching myself to play, but life happened. Sadly, it's bow collecting dust by my bedside.

When I'm not working 50 hours a week with several side projects on top of my responsibilities as a husband and father, I'd like to pick it back up.

</comment><comment><USER26> drumset since middle school, orchestral percussion since about then too, and mallet percussion (and drumline stuff) since high school. wait, that sounds a bit misleading, since i don't do the orchestral, mallet, or drumline stuff anymore.

i also played piano since like 6. stopped when i hit high school.

<comment><USER26> oh yeah, also made this whilst in hs with a friend.

<http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR00828/>

so i guess i dabbled in electronic music for a bit too :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> I've had a solo band for a few years (<http://werenotthecoolkids.com/music/index.php>). I've been in several bands with friends. I play the guitar, drums and sing. Being a polymath is really important to me.

</comment><comment><USER28> I started playing banjo 8 months ago. It's pretty much been my only hobby since then. Though, I think the upstairs neighbors may have moved out as a result. I still haven't found a way to practice that's fruitful, and yet isn't way to loud for everyone else. Mutes just aren't fun.

</comment><comment><USER29> I play guitar, compose and do recording engineering

This is my profile in a nice collaborative site.

[http://www.kompoz.com/compose-collaborate/userName- elbicho/p...](http://www.kompoz.com/compose-collaborate/userName- elbicho/profile.member)

</comment><comment><USER30> I play harmonica. Not at very good level but good enough to be able to jam with my friends guitar.

<comment><USER31> Right there with you. I picked it up only a few months ago so I'm an amateur at best.

I always keep my harmonica within the reach of my hands, so whenever I'm tired of coding I lean back and play a little.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> I play bass. Used to play the piano.

<comment><USER23> Same, but played trumpet in between (I find that bassists have often played trumpet in the past).

<comment><USER32> Well, it's always easier to learn a second instrument if you have a firm grasp on basic music theory. I hated playing the piano, but in retrospect, it's really helped me pick up the bass faster/better.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> I play the piano, as a hobby. One or two hours a day. I go to classes and I've been playing for five or six years. I have also composed some electronic music and remixed popular tracks but I stopped doing that because of lack of time.

</comment><comment><USER5> Piano. Classically trained, but after I dropped out of college (for unrelated reasons), I spent a couple years playing in cover bands, church organ, piano bars. Sadly, after getting into computers, I haven't touched it for 15 years.

</comment><comment><USER34> I've played keyboards for about 11 years. This summer, I was in a Dream Theater cover band.

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfmhWH7BVA4>

</comment><comment><USER35> I compose electronic music. Attempted to learn to play keyboard at a late age, but progressed unsatisfyingly slowly.

I would agree that a disproportionate number of programmers I know are musically inclined.

</comment><comment><USER36> I play Piano and Clarinet. While it's been about 8 years, I used to write orchestral and new age MIDI music for a few years (<http://gumm.8k.com>)

</comment><comment><USER37> I play and record myself on acoustic-electric plugged into a multi-effects pedal, plugged into the computer, and I sing.

I suck at everything.

</comment><comment><USER38> I hadn't played a musical instrument in 10 years, but last month I picked up a keyboard and began teaching myself piano. I really enjoy it.

</comment><comment><USER39> I used to play clarinet in middle school and elementary.

I racked up ~5 years before quitting.

I also have a Bb r13 clarinet for sale.

</comment><comment><USER40> I play the guitar (electric, acoustic) and the electric bass. Before working as a programmer I taught fretted strings professionally.

</comment><comment><USER41> I play the Dumbek. Mostly middle-eastern style.

</comment><comment><USER42> Playing an instrument has a good correlation with higher intelligence. And it's no secret that hackers are some of the smartest.

</comment><comment><USER43> I'm not sure I'm considered a musician, yet, but I'm learning bass guitar. I practice daily, though not as much as I'd like.

</comment><comment><USER44> I play the Veena on and off.

I find it's a good release valve from spending too much time in front of the screen.

</comment><comment><USER45> I've played guitar for a while. I try to practice at least three times a week for 1 - 4 hours each sitting.

</comment><comment><USER46> Piano, guitar, bass, clarinet, viola. Haven't played the last three much in the last few years though.

</comment><comment><USER47> I played various combinations of drums through high school. Right now I'm taking a tabla class.

</comment><comment><USER48> I play the guitar. But I wouldn't call myself a musician just yet.

Love music though.

</comment><comment><USER49> my band (2-piece called coltrane motion) just played a sold-out show w/ mucca pazza (look them up right this second) at the empty bottle (chicago) last night. blown out hip-hop beats under farfisa, ms-10, and guitar noise. fun stuff.

</comment><comment><USER50> Piano, mostly. Actually, I'm graduating this year with a decree in both CS and music.

</comment><comment><USER51> I play the banjo, and can't seem to stop playing the banjo. It's like a drug.

</comment><comment><USER52> played violin since age 2.

played in various national and all-state hs orchestras.

stopped playing in college though and haven't played since

</comment><comment><USER53> Piano & guitar - hobby songwriter

</comment><comment><USER54> I am re-learning the piano.

</comment><comment><USER55> Trombone and baritone

</comment><comment><USER56> i play guitar

</comment><comment><USER57> piano.</comment>


Paylocity's Steve Sarowitz Spent $1 Million Building Flawed Software - <AUTHOR> http://www.inc.com/magazine/20081201/paylocitys-steve-sarowitz-spent-1-million.html <comment><USER2> What's interesting to me is not the fact that Sarowitz decides to scrap the junk and rewrite but rather that he took the time to improve on an already existing product. He uses the profits from his existing enterprise to improve his offering in the industry and grow his customer base by presumably adding value.

So many companies are just all too happy to kick back and ride the gravy train. They have no vision of what things could be like with a touch of innovation and sweat. It takes a boss like Sarowitz to see what things could be like and move the ball down the field.

</comment><comment><USER3> from this i conclude the that Inc. crowd doesn't know that the failure of large software projects is about as likely as success. strange.

</comment><comment><USER4> It's good to see experience win out for once. When I read that he hired an enterprise guy with 17 years of experience, at first I was doubtful (I've met a number of those who I wouldn't want running a start-up team), but from the sound of it, the guy was solid and knew his stuff.

</comment><comment><USER5> Seems like this Cooper guy is the hero of the story.</comment>