Watch High-Speed Trading Bots Go Berserk - <AUTHOR> http://www.technologyreview.com/view/428756/watch-high-speed-trading-bots-go-berserk/?ref=rss <comment><USER2> When I was in high school, my math teacher instilled me with the value of always labeling axes when plotting graphs. This GIF provides us with exactly no information on anything, but it sure _seems_ scary enough. The line is getting higher and more erratic! This can't be good!

Let's piece apart some of the language here:

* "High-Speed Trading Bots Go Berserk" — doesn't mean anything, they're processes, they're just following their algorithm.

* "…unnerving the financial markets." — doesn't mean anything, 'markets' don't have nerves. In fact, I once wrote about the dangers of reification: <http://blog.zacharyvoase.com/2012/03/31/reification/>

* "activity becomes much, much more frenetic and erratic" — to a human observer. These algorithms don't have concepts of 'frenetic' or 'erratic'; neither does the universe.

* "…so complex that its potential systemic repercussions are literally unknowable" — suggests that systemic repercussions of _anything_ were ever 'knowable'. If they were, we wouldn't have markets. c.f.: <http://mises.org/daily/2608/>

Don't just read. Think. Thanks.

<comment><USER3> Yeah, but you have to admit that this is pretty skilled sensationalist journalism :P

How convenient Nanex didn't include labels in the graphics they provided! [1] In fact, they specifically say that high frequency trading doesn't concern them, and are talking about quote spamming. Not. The. Same. The animated graph used in the article combines metrics of both, as far as I can tell, but Nanex makes it clear that High Frequency Trading is stalled or declining while High Frequency Quoting is on the rise.

Furthermore, the bit saying "activity becomes much, much more frenetic and erratic" is just... totally silly. Partly because of what you mentioned, but also because... well I don't know what else to say, it's just so utterly, embarrassingly silly. I'd wager the graph's movement isn't even nearly as 'frenetic' as the stock market itself.

In any case, it's quite clear that the author didn't even peek at the page he got the graph from.

Ugh. This kind of 'journalism' makes me sick.

[1] <http://www.nanex.net/aqck/2804.HTML> linked all-too-subtly in the article

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Lets stop and think for a moment about what we are discussing. Knight gave other people about $400M by making some bad trades. Also, some graphs wiggled.

The net impact on the market was negligible. If you buy on the timescale of days to weeks, you can completely ignore HFT. Here is a blog post with graphs demonstrating the market impact of various HFT events:

[http://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2012/flash_crash_flash_in_...](http://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2012/flash_crash_flash_in_the_pan.html)

<comment><USER5> the technology used by HFT firms to make markets in microseconds makes the web development world look like children.

pubsub is the hot new thing here in the valley - welcome to wall street, circa ten years ago.

asynchronous is the new synchronous? what is that - a new album by smash mouth?

if you completely ignore HFT, you'd think there would be way more programmers and mathematicians available for hire.

<comment><USER6> As someone who has designed, built and ran systems that operated at a scale that made the software that HFT firms look like toys and built several web companies, I can honestly say that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Web development and low-level systems engineering are entirely different and neither one is particularly harder than the other. If anything, both are simply tedious.

And pubsub was old by the time wall street got a hold of it.

<comment><USER5> yes, pubsub is an old pattern.

what HFT experience do you have that makes you think of those systems as toys?

a webpage that responds to requests in 10 milliseconds is fast. a trading engine that responds to requests in 10 milliseconds is a joke.

<comment><USER7> It's not as if many webpages couldn't be made to respond to faster.

Not to brag, but I've built trading engines in the past year that can process 20 years worth of data in less than a ms.

Now I'm a founder at your usually derrided photos-sharing start up. Sure we could make most requests come out of the server in less than 2ms, but what of it? It's still going to take the user upwards of 1.5 seconds to load all of the content, and at least 100ms spent on the wire. Working at a consumer level startup, there's no point in optimizing the server yet when network costs are so high, and there's no point in improving the network when there's no ROI in it.

\----

Answering to his question: > what HFT experience do you have that makes you think of those systems as toys?

I'd imagine that massive distributed systems are more complex to think through that HFT systems because the later are more monolithic due to speed constraints.

<comment><USER5> HFT systems _are_ massive distributed systems.

where i worked - a small shop with 10 engineers - we had 350 machines running in 5 different data centers in chicago, new jersey, and korea. each machine ran around 100 different processes, which were coordinated using a combination of several different pubsub systems:

\- in house reliable tcp-based broker mediated (we called it pubsub3 )

\- in house unrelaiable ip-multicast system (i named it blue ray because i thought that sounded cool)

\- 3rd party implementation of a PGM derivative that we licensed for god knows how much

the engines subscribed to various topics on the system, processed market ticks (sent by marketdata publishers over blue ray) and fired orders at whatever instrument they were handling

the risk engines modeled risk scenarios inresponse to trading shifts, powering through the risk models our quant trader wrote in c. we had a 'calcparser' system that constructed a DAG rerpresenting the AST of the c code and distributed the DAG across several machines.

shit was nuts. i miss it.

<comment><USER8> >HFT systems _are_ massive distributed systems

The complexity is also in having to deal with limited resources, and factors outside of your control. Have you seen many bootstrapped HFT implementations? The budgets are just... different.

When you spend 10x or 100x hardware, get massively redundant backbone connectivity (connecting to a tier 1 core router directly, and not through an oversubscribed shared switch port that a typical bootstrapped startup would get), you end up with a much better controlled and somewhat predictable environment.

With a typical "web" (non-HFT) distributed system, you've got millions of "subscribers" aka users - and I don't think people outside of IT fully realize just how bad a typical user's [Windows] machine is messed up - and that was before they installed a couple of toolbars, adware, firewall, and AV products... And all of these subs are tying up your publishers in their own unique screwed up way, keeping sessions open, dropping packets, blocking ports...

I've designed global CDNs, and operated one for a decade - and the kind of randomness our distributed systems have to deal with are not always technical, even though we don't typically count microseconds.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Any idea how much Knight ended up losing? I remember interviewing with this company, Allston Trading in college. They were the only ones who showed up at the Career fair with the salary printed out on brochures. $100k for a fresh java developer. During the interview in their plush offices in the Chicago stock exchange, they were casually discussing how they ended up losing $5million in forex last night. All of them were young, brash and looked like they had little regard for investors money. One trading guy was telling us how he flies to vegas just for the weekend to get with hookers (during a lunch interview!).

The managers seemed like your typical alpha-male..bullish, dominating and little regard for morals. Although some computer scientists that they had seemed brilliant and were genuinely interested in building safer, better algos. So i wouldn't be surprised if it's these wall st. types that are pushing the limits further even if deemed unsafe.

<comment><USER10> Consensus number seems to be $440M in losses on the bulk liquidation of $4.5B in unwanted positions to Goldman Sachs. This represents about a 10% loss.

GS does bulk liquidations like this and typically takes a haircut of 2-5%, presumably based on a risk and liquidity assessment.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I know HN's frontpage has had a few posts dealing with what financial industry coders do and the validity of it. The ones who claim to be HFT-bot coders argue that they're highly-skilled coders...but it was not always clear if their skill is in algorithm-implementation, or in engineering. That is, they may be great at working with the traders in coming up with a highly performant bot, but they have less ability in exception-handling and design, which may be things that their bosses don't really think about. (I honestly don't know, was just wondering if someone could competently recap the relevant discussions.)

<comment><USER12> Most everybody I know (in the field) is in disbelief concerning the length of time the Knight disaster unfolded over. I've had systems "loop" in BAD ways, but never for more than 1-3 seconds.

Safeties are paramount in the field. There's many layers of protections to avoid *ing yourself. Most of these are deployed in ways that are not terribly expensive on the 'critical path' -- that said, there are a LOT of people doing REALLY stupid things in the field. (As there are in any field, it's just more 'scandalous' when an error in a financial application occurs)

Algorithm implementation is largely trivial, and the high pricetags paid developers in the industry are usually for specific engineering skills along with the semi-requirement that developers be 'all-hands-on-deck' when the situation calls for it. (There's a bug in the new strategy...well you need to fix it before tomorrow's open etc) At least, that's how I see it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Blogspam. OP is [http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/08/06/chart-of- th...](http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/08/06/chart-of-the-day-hft- edition/)

</comment><comment><USER14> If the chart is showing frequency of trades it's just showing that there are more trades right?

I find it a little misleading that the graph is presented as somehow being connected to market instability. If they are correlated, they haven't demonstrated the relationship clearly to me. Am I misreading this?

Also I fail to see how someone else's algorithm going nuts could impact regular Joe traders as the article also suggests. If a stock price starts plummeting because of a bug in a trading algo goes haywire, a savvy trader would look to their news sources and realise nothing has happened. Or if they are passive investors probably by the time they mobilise to panic sell it's already corrected itself.

</comment><comment><USER15> Anyone know what the y-axis measures? The original Nanex source doesn't label it either[1].

[1] <http://www.nanex.net/aqck/2804.HTML>

<comment><USER16> Looks to me like the time of the day.

<comment><USER15> That's the x-axis.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Most of comments here are missing the big picture.

Most of the general public and individual investors do not have clear insight into how HFTs work, or if they are beneficial or not. Most are inclined to be scared of crashes and erratic behavior traced back to HFTs. Trading off liquidity for a loss of trust in capital markets is a bad deal.

When investors lose trust in the system, it all falls apart.

</comment><comment><USER18> Do HFT firms have contracts with larger banks to take their positions with a discount in situations like this, so the stocks are not imidiatly dumped on the market causing havok? Or to insure them against loss?

Sounds like we could segment, rate, and pacakge these contracts up into insured "credit-default-swap" type-of vehicles and make money making/selling/buying/trading them.

</comment><comment><USER19> Tech journalist discovers zerohedge. They ran this story back in February.

[http://www.zerohedge.com/news/presenting-rise-hft-machine- vi...](http://www.zerohedge.com/news/presenting-rise-hft-machine-visual- confirmation-how-skynet-broke-stock-market-us-downgrade-day)

</comment><comment><USER20> This should be illegal long time ago -- think Captcha for buying/selling stocks.

The real issue here is that -- whoever was in charge of those stock exchanges hasn't properly addressed this issue as we all can see now its been growing slowly but constantly since 2007.

<comment><USER21> > think Captcha for buying/selling stocks.

I like that the side-effect would be a drastic improvement in OCR technology.

<comment><USER12> This would be awesome. (Time to bust out your DBNs)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> I'd like to see a graph of average spreads between 2007 and now.

</comment><comment><USER23> Does HFT create value in any way? It strikes me as purely driven by greed and so utterly irresponsible for society as a whole.

<comment><USER24> As has been pointed out a few times in connection with this incident, Knight is largely a market-maker (not an HFT firm): Knight keeps open quotes on both buy and sell sides of transactions at all times and provides liquidity. Their strategy to make money is the "spread" -- they price the buy a couple of cents lower than the sell and on average they end up buying a couple cents lower than selling.

They are part of the infrastructure of the major markets; a company listing on NASDAQ or NYSE is required by the market to choose at least one market-maker who will be designated to always keep open buy and sell orders on the books.

As it happens, Knight does its market-making through computers; this replaces sweaty men who would stand in the "pit" of the trading floor and trade by waving fingers at each other (including, occasionally, the middle one). It looks like HFT in that computers trade quickly, but it is intended to be a liquidity-providing service to the market: there is always somebody willing to buy or sell anytime the market is open.

(In contrast, HFT does not require always-open buy and sell quotes.)

<comment><USER25> Yeah, "liquidity" is the standard bullshit distraction trotted out every time HFT is discussed here. Strangely enough, we've got "yummyfajitas" defending it again, which maybe, just maybe, _might_ have something to do with the fact that he _works in HFT_.

As for liquidity, since the bots only make trades with the goal of shaving off tiny little slivers of profit on millions of trades, why and how would one of those sweaty guys ever buy anything from them? Even if one wanted to, the opportunity to buy might pass in a couple of microseconds.

All in all, working in HFT or even the financial "industry" at large, is complete bullshit. No self-respecting, decent human being should do it. No matter how you look at it, your mission there is to help world-raping scumbag bankers and the like make more money. They certainly don't need it.

<comment><USER4> I no longer work in HFT.

As for your other questions, I suggest you go read my blog posts on the topic. They answer all your factual questions.

<comment><USER25> > I no longer work in HFT.

Finance still, though? I bet it's difficult to let go of the fat paychecks.

> As for your other questions, I suggest you go read my blog posts on the > topic. They answer all your factual questions.

Ah yes. I was just _giddy_ with delight when you used Futurama character names in those examples. How could I _not_ love everything HFT represents after that?

<comment><USER4> _Finance still, though? I bet it's difficult to let go of the fat paychecks._

Your guesses as to my personality type and employment situation are just as wrong as your speculation about the nature of HFT.

<comment><USER25> > Your guesses as to my personality type and employment situation are just as > wrong as your speculation about the nature of HFT.

That's easy for you to say. We're both human though. Humans are above all selfish, and have a hard time letting go of easy money.

So who knows, if I were some kind of math wizard living in the US, I might have ended up working for a bunch of sociopaths too. It's possible I'd be here on HN, rationalizing and defending HFT and blowing smoke up people's asses with cutesy link-bait-titled posts about it.

I didn't actually say anything about your _personality type_ though.

We shouldn't even bother, but perhaps you'd care to point ouf my mistakes in describing "the nature" of HFT?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> If computers are running the markets, and the markets have such a large influence over society, does that mean the computers have already quietly started their takeover?

<comment><USER27> what does that even mean go away

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> I don't know stocks but this strikes me to be the same mindset as domain tasting and should be ended entirely, not regulated, just killed, regardless of any claims of industries being built around it - it's just wrong.

</comment><comment><USER29> HFT should b illegal. Period.

What value is there in any system where trades over "pennies millions of times per second" is provided at all to real world conditions/humans.

This is simply a tool by a few to make money in an invisible, unregulated and uncontrollable space.

This is simply not sane.

<comment><USER30> That's rather simplistic, not to mention completely wrong. US markets are highly visible (you just saw a free visualization of HFT activity since 2007), very tightly regulated and well controlled. Things go wrong, as they do in all complex systems, but rarely do they go wrong to the extent that ordinary investors are harmed.

Read this, before jerking your knee any further. Think of it as turning on the bedroom light, showing the monster in the corner to be nothing more than a pile of clothes:

<http://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2012/hft_apology.html> <http://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2012/hft_apology2.html>

Financial markets have been moving towards zero latency trading since their inception. First, men gathered under trees or in coffee houses, within shouting distance of each other. They fought over the best spots. Then, traders became some of the earliest adopters of telegraph technology, running private lines from remote cities to the exchanges. Ticker tapes appeared in distant offices. Computerized price dissemination followed, together with electronic trading connections to the exchanges themselves. All in the name of getting information and acting on it before the next guy. It's the reason you, as an individual, can trade global markets cheaply and instantly. It helps you take control over your retirement and savings, rather than paying through the nose for some managed scheme where only a privileged few can access the markets.

Where is your arbitrary line where progress stops?

<comment><USER29> I think you are arguing something different than I. I am open to being wrong, but I think I am making a different point.

You are saying that by having a zero latency trading capability, financial markets are the sign of progress and it is an inevitability that, not only is desirable, but preferred.

That's fine, but not what I am am taking issue with is fully automated system of extremely high volume, low margin, trades that are conducted by bots and have no human interaction other than those that are profiting from them.

I admit I am not savvy enough in this area to argue about whether or not HFT provides more equilibrium to the price of a stock, but I don't see that as a wholly convincing argument as to why HFT is important and adds value.

I am skeptical of that claim, mostly due to my ignorance, so please educate me on the following: The claim that HFT rarely goes wrong such that "ordinary investors" are harmed; who then is the non-ordinary investor who is benefiting from the HFT, and what value are they providing in the markets, other than profiting from HFT.

It appears to be making the claim that HFT is a meta market that the ordinary investor shouldn't even be concerned with except in cases of extreme rarity where a flaw causes them some financial harm/risk.

Again, if this is true - what true concrete value to the world does this meta system provide? I simply cannot see it, and again, I claim awareness of my ignorance, so please explain like I am five.

Thanks!

<comment><USER31> > ...and what value are they providing in the markets...

It used to be that if you wanted to buy a book you would have to wander around town until you found a place that had chosen to stock it. If it was an obscure or specialist book you might have to drive to a different town. You might just be shit out of luck. Nowadays you search for the title on Amazon and it shows up at your door the next morning. When you are done you can sell it again on Amazon with minimal hassle. Amazon improved the efficiency and liquidity of the book market which is why they are rich, even though they are charging less overhead than the bookstores.

Your local corner store doesn't create anything. All they do is buy from manufacturers and sell to you at a markup. But you don't care about spending an extra few pennies when its 6am and you're out of milk. You just want breakfast now.

Liquidity providers make it easier to buy and sell financial instruments whenever you want. HFT enables firms to provide liquidity more efficiently and with less risk. Just like Amazon, they get rich by saving you money.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Alfred Dev Doctor – An Alfred workflow for documentation search - <AUTHOR> http://wemakeawesomesh.it/alfred-dev-doctor/

<comment><USER2> This reminds me of Mozilla's Ubiquity a few years ago [1]. You could write commands for it with JavaScript that would make http requests as you type and render bits of HTML. It seems Ubiquity no longer exists, which is a shame.

I'd love to see something like this that integrates with the browser or command line. Perhaps Ubuntu's Unity comes close.

[1] <https://wiki.mozilla.org/Labs/Ubiquity>

</comment><comment><USER3> It seems great. Thanks.

Is there any possibility to integrate this with Dash? (<http://kapeli.com>). I like having offline documentation and being able to search dash via alfred with suggestions would be great.

<comment><USER4> Hi, Dash's developer here. Dash actually now has a Alfred 2 workflow very similar to the one above. In a nutshell, the Alfred 2 workflow performs the search in Dash in the background and shows the results inside Alfred.

This is what it looks like: <http://cl.ly/image/0h2r0d3b1c2h>. This is how you get it: <https://twitter.com/kapeli/status/316074209568755712>.

It's still in beta, so do expect some bugs (although no bugs have been reported so far). If you absolutely don't like betas, wait for the next update of Dash (version 1.8.2).

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Oh man, I've been holding off on upgrading Alfred for a while because I didn't see the point, and now I'm upgrading so I can download a free add-on. This is an honest killer app for Alfred's new workflow feature.

<comment><USER6> thanks :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> I clicked the link, I saw something I might like and would use but I found absolutely no instructions or information on how to actually use the downloaded archive. Is it mac only? How do you run it?

<comment><USER6> It requires alfred, it does state that just below the download link. Alfred is only on mac, yes.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Are there any tools that can read most standard formats of library documentation (cross-language) and then present it all in a standardised way, e.g. in a locally hosted web app?

<comment><USER9> I use Dash <http://kapeli.com/>

The only annoying thing is that it updates so frequently to add doc sets I don't care about.

<comment><USER10> Anything that's not OS specific, or compatible with linux?

<comment><USER11> +1 on the aboce comment.

yeah that's great and all but since it is only on OSX do I need to turn to 'burning and looting'?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Rails but not Ruby?

<comment><USER6> yeah sorry, i couldn't find a simple ruby api doc to use. Feel free to file a pull request though.

(I'm not a ruby nor rails dev)</comment></comment>


South Korean president Park Geun-hye forced from office by constitutional court - <AUTHOR> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/10/south-korea-president-park-geun-hye-constitutional-court-impeachment <comment><AUTHOR> Hi, I'm a native of Seoul and have attended most of the anti-Park government candlelight rallies held every Saturday for the past 20 weeks in Seoul. A total of over 15 million people have attended these nationwide protests during this time with a single day record of 2.32 million people in attendance on Dec. 3rd, 2016. All of these civil protests have been peaceful without any incidents of violence, vandalism, looting, or even littering. Just ordinary people wanting a corrupt government to be outed, the court system to do its due diligence, and chaebols (Samsung, SK, Lotte, etc.) to be persecuted for cronyism with the government. You get a real feeling of solidarity just being among the people. Take a look at this exhilarating video - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fC9lhyzjDI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fC9lhyzjDI) \- people doing a candlelight wave in one of the protests held in downtown Seoul. I'll be online all day today, so feel free to ask me questions about any of this or the current political situation in Korea.

</comment><comment><USER2> A comment and two questions:

First of all, your story shows the high level of commitment a population has to put to see a corrupted politician being punished, and also faith in the judicial system.

Do you know if anything will be done or can be done to prevent that from happening again?

My impression from loosely following this over the past 4 months or so is that, I feel like what she is being accused of is only slightly worst than what a great number of politicians in Washington DC are considering business as usual. How crooked is the system on Korea compared with the US (or the UK I guess, since you're linking the guardian)?

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, you're right. There was a high level of commitment by the overwhelming majority of the population (~80% of the population was in favor of impeachment vs ~12% against), but the reason people kept showing up weekend after weekend for the demonstrations was due to a lack of faith in all three branches of government, i.e. it was to keep public pressure on the legislative, judicial, and to a lesser extent the executive branches. The day the most people showed up (2.32 million, Dec. 3rd, 2016) was the week before the parliament passed the impeachment bill. People really wanted to express their determination and anger as even some opposition party members were balking at the idea of impeaching the president (we have 300 members of parliament, 200 votes were needed for the bill to pass, and 234 voted in favor).

> Do you know if anything will be done or can be done to prevent that from > happening again?

My understanding is that in a democratic system, there is always the risk of putting someone like Park (or a more dramatic example is Hitler) in power. A sign of a well-functioning democracy is whether appropriate social mechanisms exist so that people can freely exercise the power to take back and undo what they think is a mistake. I think history shows the only thing that works to prevent these kinds of mistakes is an informed public, educating the masses, and taking an active role (however small) in social and political matters.

> How crooked is the system on Korea compared with the US?

During the past 10 years in Korea (which was under a conservative government), transparency indices dropped dramatically across the board, e.g. social, financial, political, freedom of press. Transparency International ([http://www.transparency.org/](http://www.transparency.org/)) puts out a report every year on government corruption, and in 2016 Korea placed 52nd out of 176 countries (out of the 35 OECD countries Korea placed 29th). For comparison, the US placed 18th and the UK 10th out of 176 countries (Denmark and New Zealand tied for the top spot for being the least corrupt).

The charges ex-president Park faced in the impeachment trial (held in the constitutional court) are different than what she will now be facing in a criminal court. The constitutional court confirmed charges of extortion, abuse of power, and leaking government secrets, which were the basis for upholding the impeachment. Now, having been forced from power and no longer enjoying immunity, the criminal court will decide whether she's criminally guilty of these charges as well as bribery charges from Samsung, Hyundai, SK, Lotte, etc. which carries a minimum of 10 years to a maximum sentence of life in prison.</comment></comment>


Herman Miller Cosm Chair - <AUTHOR> https://www.hermanmiller.com/products/seating/office-chairs/cosm-chairs/ <comment><USER2> I used Aerons for several years back when they first came out. While they are really nice looking, I and my staff found them to be terribly uncomfortable. We all went and tested multiple chairs at the Merchandise Mart. The Steelcase Leap was the clear winner. I still have and use several of them almost 20 years later.

The Aeron has two major flaws, IMHO. It looks like the Cosm may have the same.

1.) Arms that recline with the back which causes your wrists to have to break to reach the keyboard

2.) The "trampoline" design of the seat means the front edge of the chair digs into the underside of your thighs.

<comment><USER3> 2.) The "trampoline" design of the seat means the front edge of the chair digs into the underside of your thighs.

This was the dealbreaker for me. I tried one, but just never found it comfortable no matter what adjustments I made. Instead, I switched to the Humanscale Freedom. While it lacks extensive adjustments that many find essential, it's been a great chair that has held up very well. In the few instances where parts have worn due to age and use, the company has stood behind the product and shipped me replacement parts with no questions asked.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Herman Miller chairs are somewhat of a scam. They aren't really ergonomic in that they round inwards at the top edges around where your shoulder blades contact with the mesh. If you actually have good posture, this will round your shoulders inwards as well.

People can say how much they love their Aeron all over the internet, but you have to understand what that means. They are just saying that they feel good while sitting in them, which often means they sit hunched over and it makes them relaxed. This doesn't mean the chair is helping them in any way. Often it means that the chair is compensating for their poor posture and making them feel good despite not being healthy.

You can see videos all over youtube of people actually working while sitting in Herman Miller chairs, and they all have poor posture. For example:

[https://youtu.be/_R8bIIQxajA?t=15](https://youtu.be/_R8bIIQxajA?t=15)

[https://youtu.be/cGEb-q5JMU0?t=17](https://youtu.be/cGEb-q5JMU0?t=17)

Most chairs above around $500 will be fine. That is to say, you will still suffer serious health issues like everyone else who sits down all day, but the chair should not cause any pain while you are sitting down.

If you have back pain and so on, you should probably go to the gym, which will be the ultimately way to feel comfortable at work and everywhere else. Although, it still will do little to reverse the effects of sitting down all day. Programming is a career that guarantees immediate and serious health issues due to sitting and poor posture.

</comment><comment><USER5> Wait a year or so and you can pick one up for half-price on the used market from the failed dot coms that bought them new and then ran out of money 6 months later and laid everybody off. Here in the south bay area, you can pick up Aeron chairs at consignment shops for a couple hundred bucks.

<comment><USER6> I looked for quite a while but couldn't find a large model on the second hand market so ended up buying new.

<comment><USER5> They do come and go pretty quickly. You need to be at the right place at the right time.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> As someone who recently purchased a high end chair, my only advice is go try them in person(!), and sit how you actually sit.

Herman Miller Aeron for example is great for people who are either small or sit "correctly." If you fold your legs under yourself, it is super uncomfortable.

My finalists were the Aeron, Embody, Steelcase Leap, and Gesture. The Leap and Gesture worked much better for my lazy ("natural") seating position. I ultimately purchased a Leap because the Gesture's arms shifted every time I stood up, and weren't as supportive.

Also our local dealer matched a major online dealer ($150 off).

<comment><USER8> The Aeron is only for people who are small? They make them in 3 different sizes and Size C can easily handle a very large person. The level of customization is why they became so popular. To that end, they also have premium versions that have even more 'levers and knobs' beyond the standard features. To your point, most people are uninformed about the Aeron (or similar) and the degree of customization that's achievable. But I ultimately do agree with you, it's not a chair that's designed for everyone and you should try before you buy. A great task chair fitted to your body makes a world of difference.

 __I use to buy and sell used office furniture in the early 00 's to pay for college. __

<comment><USER7> > The Aeron is only for people who are small? They make them in 3 different > sizes and Size C can easily handle a very large person.

But does nothing for leg length, which is the issue. As I said in the post you replied to, if you fold your legs under yourself the Aeron doesn't work.

For smaller people, they likely won't notice it, but for larger/taller the back of your legs brush against the underside/front of the chair in that position.

The Aeron seems to want you to sit correctly or not at all.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I have to say the Aeron is my absolute favourite chair and I've worked in several different environments.

I haven't had the luxury of testing other high-end ergonomic chairs, but I had to buy an Aeron for my home office as soon as I started getting serious about remote-working.

I can sit in this thing for a lengthy 12-hour shift and feel physically OK doing so (with some regular small walking breaks of course) - and I cannot say the same thing for any other chair.

I also think it just looks fantastic, it's definitely iconic and I have expressed my interest to Herman Miller in this new chair even though the one I'm sitting in right now is five years old and still feels mint condition.

</comment><comment><USER10> Every Herman Miller chair I've tried (and several other brands of "ergonomic" chairs) seem to be designed in such a way that there's a big gap in support around the mid-back area, in-between the lumbar area and the shoulder blades. There's very firm, forward support for the lumbar spine and shoulders, and then this weird gap in the middle. This causes my mid-back to round into the empty space, which in turn causes my shoulders and neck to slump forward.

Judging from the photo, this chair looks like it has the same problem.

I can't for the life of me figure out how or why anyone considers these chairs to be comfortable. Maybe my back just has a weird shape or something, but these chairs seem to literally fight to keep you from sitting up straight with a healthy posture. And yet, everyone seems to love them. It feels like some sort of bizarre conspiracy.

To be clear, this is _not_ just my initial impressions. Everyone loves these name-brand luxury chairs so much that I've owned three of them over the last ten years (a Mirra, an Embody, and a Humanscale Freedom), because I keep thinking maybe I just need a different model, or maybe I haven't figured out how to adjust the damn things properly. They all feel well-built and high quality, but they all feel more and more uncomfortable the longer I sit in them, and I can't find a way to use them that doesn't seem to cause progressively worse back and neck problems. I can't figure out where the disconnect is happening.

<comment><USER11> Curious, are you using their lumbar insert? I used to and always found it uncomfortable. I later learned from a Herman Miller rep that most people shouldn't use it and the chair provides support from the large mesh contact surface. Since removing it I've been way more comfortable, going on 5 years now.

<comment><USER10> Maybe that would've helped for the Mirra, though I did tend to keep it at its minimum setting anyway, since I also found it rather uncomfortable. But the Embody and Freedom chairs have no removable lumbar support to begin with....

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> 15 years ago I went to look at chairs after finally tiring of the "cheap" $200 Office Depot chairs that needed replacing every couple years. The office furniture store I went to had several Aeron chairs and all of them were broken in various ways. I took that as a sign and didn't get one.

Instead I got a Cramer Triton which is a fairly basic looking chair, but I found comfortable for working at the computer and it was rated for 3 shift use with a fairly long warranty. Later I got a total of maybe 6 of them for my company and they held up really well.

I left that company and the new company had a bunch of Aeron chairs, the best I could find of the unused chairs was one that I could get into a reasonable position but couldn't adjust at all once it was there.

Fast forward 4 years and yesterday I spent about 30 minutes sitting, mostly using a standing desk. :-)

</comment><comment><USER13> I much prefer the DXRacer King Zero: [https://www.dxracer.com/au/en- au/product/1/gaming_chair/king...](https://www.dxracer.com/au/en- au/product/1/gaming_chair/king_series/oh-kf00-nr-zero/)

<comment><USER14> This looks like an OfficeMax chair with red trim.

<comment><USER15> The premium model gaming-market chairs (AKRacing/DXRacer) are actually great as general office chairs, I'm super happy with mine. They also have office- styled versions (e.g. [https://www.akracing.com/product/obsidian-office- chair/](https://www.akracing.com/product/obsidian-office-chair/))

The quality is definitely far beyond the office max special. I was surprised by the box the thing came in - absolutely massive. The chair is a tank

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Makes me think of line from fuckedcompany.com during Bubble 1.0: "You can have my Aeron when you pry it from my cold, dead ass"

<comment><USER17> That brings back memories. Wonder what he's doing now?

I've got 2 Aerons in my home office right now and they're awesome. Cost me £100 each, 6 months old, bought from a government department who paid a fortune for them. That's where your tax money goes it seems.

<comment><USER18> _> That brings back memories. Wonder what he's doing now?_

[https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=pud](https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=pud)

<comment><USER17> Awesome, thank you.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Airon is the emacs of chairs.

<comment><USER20> This makes me wonder what's the Vim of chairs?

<comment><USER21> One where you don't get out of again without 5 years of experience?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> The Staple's branded Tarance is the nicest chair I've sat on in some time. And it's modestly priced ($265CDN). Check it out next time you're in Staples.

</comment><comment><USER23> Anybody have a recommendation for an inexpensive chair that isn't bad for your back or body?

<comment><USER24> The IKEA Markus is around $200 and often recommended as a good compromise on price and ergonomics.

<comment><USER25> This is a reassuring recommendation because I just did some research and the Markus was what I settled on in the affordable bracket.

</comment></comment></comment><comment> blah-blahblah [https://xkcd.com/915/](https://xkcd.com/915/)

</comment><comment><USER26> Looks sleek. Especially love the typeface (Meta), chosen well to complement the chair's design.

</comment><comment><USER27> Or you could just just go the gym regularly, take frequent breaks from sitting, lose weight, eat healthy.

You don't need fancy chair if your back is not supporting a huge gut or is strength atrophied from never using it , you don't need a fancy mattress if your body is tired and your mind calm.

<comment><USER28> There is a very good reason Aeron chairs appeal to programmers...

<comment><USER29> I always wanted an Aeron. Finally got one and it's terrible. The bottom "breathable" fabric has to be so tight it's like sitting on a noncushioned chair. It might keep your ass cooler but at the expense of comfort.

I found a ~$150 chair on Amazon that is so much more comfortable and affordable.

[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q5XTE8/](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Q5XTE8/)

<comment><USER9> Maybe it's because I'm a tall guy (and fairly overweight) but for me it's the mesh that makes it so good - it might feel tight and not exactly 'cushioned', but I can sit on it for hours without feeling sore, whereas nearly every other office chair after a while feels like I've sunk into the cushion and warped my sitting position - or hit the plastics/metal!

<comment><USER29> I'm glad someone likes it. I'm a Herman Miller fan, my dad's Eames Lounge Chair from the 70s got murdered in a tornado (so sad).

It makes me sad that they're so uncomfortable because I love the look (the Cobalt Blue from the 90s was awesome).</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Burned out 21 year old software developer, what's next? - <AUTHOR> I've been writing software for startups for the last three years. I'm self taught and started right after high school. I've worked for my current employer for about 18 months and our team and technology were recently acquired. As I've begun to assimilate into the new company, I'm realizing how burnt out I am and how little satisfaction I get from writing software for enterprise companies. My question is, what's next? I've looked at other tech jobs and few of them spark my interests.<p>I realize this is a very open ended question. Any advice is thoroughly appreciated. <comment><USER2> College college college college. Your 20s are when you figure out what you want to do. College is expensive but a great way to dabble in tons of stuff, socialize, and get ready for the next step. Being 21 isn't too late, plenty of people go to college at 21-22 after stints in the military. You'll be popular as you'll be able to buy your friends beer (legal disclaimer: don't do that).

<comment><USER3> College is a huge waste of money for someone who doesn't value it. Debt sucks.

<comment><USER4> 100% agree. I hated it. It was expensive, stressful, and unrewarding.

My loans won't be paid off until I'm in my mid 40s. I feel like a sucker who fell for a scam. It's objectively the biggest mistake I ever made.

I'm sure my perspective will be soundly dismissed on HN. I'm sure I must have done college "wrong" or something. Whatever. I'm not trying to blame anyone else. My choices seemed like good ones at the time; these things are only clear in retrospect.

<comment><USER5> I _completely_ agree with you, and I'm in my mid-40's still paying off college debt for a degree that hasn't helped. (I was a business management major)

Unless, you're going to be a doctor/lawyer/engineer/$FIELD_THAT_REQUIRES_LICENSING... then college is a scam, and a waste of time and money.

Don't be fooled, education != college. You _CAN_ get educated for much less, in MANY other ways, for much less money (if not free).

<comment><USER3> I'm in my 40s and still paying off the debt incurred to get 2 business degrees. Maybe the advice should be "don't major in business!" :P

<comment><USER5> I'd say >95% of the material covered in my business track could have been learned by reading "The Personal MBA" by Josh Kaufman. If only it had been around when I started.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> A big thing not mentioned yet in the comments is to figure out exactly what's burning you out.

Is it the work?

Is it the people?

Is it the office?

Is it the commute?

Is it the structure of the day?

Find out exactly what it is that's actually burning you out.

Some of these can be solved by becoming a remote worker (which comes with its own cast of problems). If you can snag a remote job you can do things like remote year (remoteyear.com (I think)), which sounds like something perfect for a 21 year old interested in experiencing new things (while making money instead of taking loans!).

On the other hand if it's the work in general then college may be a good step. That being said, I'm not as certain how to combat long term dissatisfaction with work. At the end of the day a lot of our job is doing the same sort of shit of over and over again. Wire this up here, move this button there, get this data heah, color this that there ova hea.

It's kind of a grind for a lot of us I think but it's still pretty interesting stuff to be doing with decent amounts of satisfaction to be found through out our projects.

Finally, if you're filled with emotions you'd like to get out, don't be afraid to go see a therapist. Having someone to talk to, who can get to know you, and work with you overtime isn't necessarily always just for the depressed.

Burnout sucks, it's real, there's no pill for it. Use all the tools available to you to combat it. Don't make rash decisions. Do write in a notebook and sit quietly for introspection. Do spend time figuring out the what, where, why, when, and how. Do consider all available options.

</comment><comment><USER7> Congratulations on getting a head start on your career. Now go to college. Seriously. Start at JC. You'll kill it. Then transfer to the best university you can get into; that would be Berkeley.

There's a shit ton to learn at college and a lot of interesting people to meet. You'll have a better broader handle on things than knowing everything there is about Python.

<comment><AUTHOR> Interesting you mention Berkeley. I was visiting my sister there just this last weekend and have since considered applying. It seemed like a great place with lots of happy young people!

<comment><USER8> Are you talking about UCB? Nearly all my friends doing EECS or the likes are depressed, swamped with work and borderline suicidal. It has taken such proportions that it has become a meme on the facebook meme page UCBMFET. From what they have told me, their administration has no interest in student satisfaction or mental health.

The gruesome workload and collective depression is perhaps only topped by Waterloo.

Yeah, you get a top notch engineering education. But, I'd wager the trauma isn't worth it when you realize the workforce standards are well below what's requires of you in the "dojo".

Stanford kids seem much happier.

<comment><USER9> I went to Cal and saw many of my friends go through the same thing. EECS is one of the most impacted majors, so the weeder introductory classes are brutal by design. For those who made it into the major, it didn't seem nearly as bad.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Contrarian advice:

\- do not analyze why you burned out, as it is because you feel ontologically 'incomplete', or insecure. you can't make meaning of a lack of meaning from the same position of a lack of meaning. so, you will need to bounce this off of/through others acting as nonjudgmental conversationalists

\- if you _do_ feel incomplete in this way, seeking internal answers/finding your "real self"/learning who you "really are" will only become a Sisyphean task/disaster

\- don't wait for your desire to come back, it's an unobtainable, by design - see Lacan, or if that's unreasonable, just listen to the rolling stones: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrIPxlFzDi0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrIPxlFzDi0)

\- don't care too much about others over yourself: this is what leads to burnout

\- if you get rid of your phantasies, you won't get reality: you'll get something worse than reality. so retain your dreams, and keep looking for new ones, as dreams and fantasies are really the only way to get into reality..

</comment><comment><USER11> I have had this experience many times in my life. I noticed that I feel burned out only when I am doing something that I don't enjoy. If I work on something that I am extremely passionate about, I can withstand stress and work long hours without feeling burned out.

I think most people underestimate the value of doing nothing. Seriously do nothing for sometime. It maybe a week or a month. Just travel, eat, drink, sleep, etc., You will start feeling yourself back in no time. Once you feel normal, realize that you need frequent breaks to maintain that state of mind. Now that you have an experience of burnout, you have an opportunity to not repeat that again.

</comment><comment><USER12> Sorry to sound negative, but welcome to the real world. The vast majority of people are doing jobs they really do not want to do. Imagine what it feels like to be work on a production line for a 12 hour shift in China. Or getting up everyday to pack the shelves at Walmart. At some point in the next 40 years of your working life you will have times when your are doing something you don't enjoy, or that causes you stress or where you suffer from burn out. Don't panic, as this is normal. Typically you solve this by doing one of the following...

1 - Just work your way through it, it will pass.

2 - Switch to another project in the company.

3 - Switch to another company.

4 - Take time off.

<comment><USER13> I'd recommend option 4. At 21 there's no need to rush things. Gain other perspectives, soak up a bit of real life!

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> I'm in a similar boat as you. I just turned 22 and have been working as a software developer for the past 3 years as well (interesting coincidence).

I noticed that I get the feeling of "burnout" when I'm doing things I don't enjoy. For instance, I can spend a couple months straight working on fun personal projects of mine all day every day, like the Medium.com clone I built, but if I'm spending two weeks straight fixing other peoples bugs at work I get extremely bored and am always watching the clock, looking forward to going home. I don't enjoy programming in those moments.

I would err on the side of caution when calling this burnout, though, to be honest. I think we are too young and haven't been at it long enough (no matter how dedicated we are) to really feel true burnout. We're just fatigued, demotivated, unexcited and a little annoyed (in my case).

I think a change of pace might help you, as it always helps me. Try doing something really challenging and thought-provoking. Entrepreneurship might be for you! Have you ever considered making your own startup? Got any ideas you've been neglecting? Take one of them on! You never know what might come of it. :)

Lastly, if you think programming in general just isn't for you anymore, but you love technology and would still like to be in the space, another thing you may want to consider is creating content of value for others to use and learn from. For instance, you could start a YouTube channel and talk about tech, crypto, AI, startups, etc.

Good luck!

<comment><USER15> I also would not call that burnout. It sounds like you're realising that work sucks.

Going to work is fun the first few months when you're all 'look at me going to my big job!' and you probably feel richer than you have ever done before.

Then after a while you realise you're not loaded after all, the novelty wears off the work and you find yourself repeating tasks again and again. The challenge then becomes to work out what it is you value - do you want your work to test your limits, or do you want to just pay the bills and find fulfilment elsewhere, etc, etc?

I like your advice to do something challenging and thought-provoking, but don't be afraid to think outside the tech sphere. Basically, the way I look at it is that you have your 20s to work out who you are and what you value. You should expect your value system to change substantially (which is where college is useful, to link to the discussion above).

In the grand scheme of things the gap between birth and death is really small. Don't waste it doing things that you don't enjoy.

<comment><USER14> Thanks for this. I agree with your statement about the value system. Mine has already changed dramatically. I went to college for two years while working full time, and eventually dropped out. It just wasn't for me; already knew what I was being taught, and ultimately got denied entry into CS major cause of poor high school grades. And ironically enough, I was working in the marketing department on the school website at the time they denied me. Go figure.. >.>

School, for people like me, is just a waste of time and gets you in needless debt. I learn better on my own anyways.

As for doing things outside of tech, I also dabble in many other things. I have been bodybuilding since I was 18 and an an avid gym goer. I'm also big on philosophy and science (quantum mechanics really excites me). There are plenty of things I am interested in...the hard part for me is figuring out which of them I really want to dedicate my time and effort to, so I can take it to the next level. I lack the ability to make that decision right now, and as a result I'm just sort of a generalist.

But you're totally right. Spending time doing things I don't enjoy will now produce a happy life. I'm growing more and more aware of this every day.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> You have not yet begun to work.

It's one life time and the universe doesn't care, so figure it out.

You can stay on a treadmill of 1-2 years where you find a new project and get bored and move on. You can pick a project to work on for 10 years and be "the guy who knows all". Whether it's a Daily WTF or a great project that spawns research papers is partly up to you and partly up to the people around you.

Realize that this is fine.

As you're doing this treadmill, develop some hobbies, and some friends. Buy random people drinks at random bars and go home with them. Realize that's totally fine. Hang out with co-workers and listen to their complaints about the software. Don't go home with them. Realize that's totally fine also because you'll see them again at some future job. Be as weird as you want, just don't be weird about it.

Being able to write software is a skill that lets you be in interesting places and work with interesting (and very demanding) people. Realize that's totally fine. You've got the choice of being the solid reliable guy they can always call on, or being the totally flaky genius that they call on anyway, or the hack that gets the crap job but doesn't care. Half the time you'll pick the wrong job and get fired or watch a company fail, and that's totally fine too.

Take a break, sure. You'll find a new job. Fine tune your crap detector. If you can take a little bit of crap at the right place you can make out pretty well. If it's the wrong place, take no crap from anybody and you'll find your phone ringing later. Just be competent and don't be an asshole, and you'll be fine. Exercise left to the reader.

</comment><comment><USER17> You're 21 years old? Have you ever heard of the grand tour? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Tour](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Tour)

Nowadays just condense your life to a backpack and travel while you can. Making money or going into debt for school is great and all but your true wealth is your time and your's alone. Sure you can hawk it out to the highest bidder but you can never buy it back no matter what you do. You code so go experience the world and find over looked problem facing real people and solve them. By not having a schedule and being self reliant you'll be forcibly giving yourself the time to do so.

</comment><comment><USER18> I was in the same boat. I hate working for other people. 21 isn't too late to move back in with your parents (or continue doing so if you're doing that now.) There's nothing that burns me out faster than working on something I don't believe in, or have personal interest in. Don't waste your life building someone else's dream. If you've got the money, or if you're in a place to fall back to living with your parents, consider trying your own thing. That's what I did. I moved out when I was 19 and moved back in when I was 22. I wanted to do my own thing but couldn't afford it, but am fortunate enough to have parents who can help me.

Starting your own company is not necessarily a path to success, and you may not be an entrepreneur. What it will do though, is provide a.) an understanding of what it's like to work for yourself b.) provide you with some insight about what you like to work on (as opposed to being told what to work on), and c.) you might even discover a new pathway. Start with an idea you care about, research its market, try to discover a niche. If it looks promising and you're excited by the idea, try it out.

Also consider that enterprise isn't the only option for work. There are startups, non-profits, and even small businesses. Small businesses can be really interesting because of the value you can provide through simple automation. If you're like me, the more you can see your personal impact on the business and the people it serves, the more you'll enjoy your work. This type of work is basically on the opposite end of the spectrum from Silicon Valley programming work, but it can be just as fulfilling.

The other possibility is maybe you're not enjoying programming as much as you thought you would, and you're thinking about a career change. My recommendation would be to try and find a reputable trade school and check out some options that relate to your current area of expertise. Please think long and hard about attending college, though. There's a lot of things in college that aren't specifically focused on helping YOU succeed, as much as they are about helping you learn stuff that may not be relevant to you. I'm biased though, I didn't go.

What's next for you is not something you're going to find the answer to from any of us on HN. You need to discover more about what interests you. Have you considered travel or taking up more hobbies? Might help guide you.

</comment><comment><USER19> You're so young, now is the time to think about exploring other interests. Read lots of books. Go do some traveling and immerse yourself in the world and all of its cultures outside your own. Then get involved in other activities that is not about corporate work. Volunteer your time and talents to help out others. Learn something that is outside of what you usually do, perhaps art. Since you have the skill sets that will get you hired later on -- now is the time to figure out what life is all about, what you truly value, and explore your own self-development.

</comment><comment><USER20> The Recurse Center is a popular place to go to figure things out! I was a resident there and it's pretty incredible.

[https://www.recurse.com/](https://www.recurse.com/)

</comment><comment><USER21> Take time off ... relax ... and I don't mean a week. :) May be travel to a place you always wanted to see .. like Barcelona. As experience of Zuckerberg, Jobs, Gates, ..., Ellison showed college is not a must. If you learned software, you can learn everything on your own. You may look at Thiel's scholarship. Peter pays $100K for young talents NOT to go to college. I have nothing against college. But why pay insane money the system charges, if most of what you need you can learn on your own? As for Berkley, you can meet the same happy people without spending ....

</comment><comment><USER22> It is normal. We recently finished a big project at my company. I barely had any sleep during the process. It took me 1-2 months to recover and begin doing useful work again. Just take it slow.

If in addition to being burned out you don't like what you are working towards, just choose a different goal. I found that working toward Artificial General Intelligence is a very motivating goal. I have been pursuing it for the past few years and I am yet to grow bored with it. The only tricky thing is there's a lot of bs surrounding the subject, so you need to learn to navigate it.

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm very interested in ML but have had a hard time getting started. Any advice on a good entry point? I've gone through Andrew Ng's course but haven't found a great resource passed this level.

<comment><USER23> Try [http://www.fast.ai/](http://www.fast.ai/) Probably this is the best course form non-mathematical side.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Stop working for startups. Crazy hours and low pay with a tiny chance of a big payoff. Go work for a big established company where the pay and benefits are good. Where you show up at 9 and leave at the stroke of 5.

Life is short, waste as little time as possible doing work for somebody else.

</comment><comment><USER25> I'm following this in a somewhat similar position but with less 'success'.

Over the last 7 years I've worked for 6 companies and have been let go or fired from all of the software oriented positions. In total accruing ~3 years maybe of employment experience. I've now been out of work for over 1.5 years and am confused about what's next.

My last position was for a large company. Worked out okay for a little while but gradually turned into a political shitstorm amongst other problems. After I left, I had realized that my interest in personal software dev had vanished, I had no interest in working in software, and nothing to show for the time I'd spent there.

Now things have got better. I surrounded myself with smart people, took some time off (the majority I was unable to find gainful work), and tried to find inspiration. I took some risks, had a lot of adventures, and am much more satisfied and happy. Only problem now is that software development tends to detract from all those things and it's tough to reconcile.

Also went back to school for this semester because as a Canadian I can't hypothetically get a work visa anywhere else without a degree and I wouldn't be doing anything more productive with my time.

</comment><comment><USER26> You could have those feelings for any number of reasons so I won't make any assumptions about the cause of your problem, but maybe hearing out some others and finding a cause and solution you might relate to would help.

Personally, I found that I had the "burnout" feeling throughout my career in instances where I didn't see a path between what I was doing and where I wanted to be. So all the work I was doing felt extra draining because the output didn't seem to be helping me make steps towards where I wanted to be. The other times I felt defeated/drained are when I didn't have a clear goal of what I wanted in the future, so any efforts at work seemed pointless. Yes, I was working for a paycheck, but you can do anything for a paycheck, it was important for me that my efforts contributed towards a bigger picture. So in that case, I had to sit down and really find/set a goal. Doing anything without a real goal in mind results in just a mindless/lazy churn that feels pointless.

</comment><comment><USER27> I don't know how exactly you feel. I've been burnt out to that point I couldn't watch at other jobs or even think about writing code. I was about 10x less productive. It was much more than just a lack of motivation. I had immediate health issues too. It happens all of a sudden when there's no motivation. A couple of month not doing any programming and I felt recovered. After that I started to feel I'm another person from the professional point of view.

Enterprise companies. People go there for a stable and well-paid job, which would look good in their resume, but probably not for personal satisfaction. Some may disagree.

If it's about not knowing the next step.. No one knows better than you. It's even funny how much more stress you can take when you feel motivated and needed.

College can be stressful too. Some people like it, others don't.

</comment><comment><USER28> Take some time off. You should sit down and work out what you really value.

The definition of burnout is when you force yourself to work on something that you don't see the value in.

When you know what you really value then make steps toward experiencing those values in your every day life. This doesn't just go for work but every part of your life.

<comment><USER29> That's not the definition of burnout, that's just being uninspired. Burnout is a combination of cynicism, depression, and lethargy that can come from failing to maintain a healthy life/work balance. (I've experienced burnout at a job I loved.)

<comment><USER28> Can you go into more detail on your experience with burnout? I'd like to understand how it came about for you.

<comment><AUTHOR> I don't have time right now but I've been thinking about writing it all down once I've had a chance to reset. I'll post it in here if you're interested.

<comment><USER28> Sounds good.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> Do what you enjoy, and don't be afraid to venture outside of software development. At the end of the day, not everyone obtains fulfillment out of staring at a computer screen all day fixing bugs and developing incremental features onto a piece of software. That's ok - we're human, not robots.

You're still young, so you can try something else (eg. product development) and easily go back to software development if you end up missing it. Or maybe there's another are within tech that'll interest you (eg. blockchain, AI/ML, game dev).

I will say one thing though - software development is probably the best job for money, work life balance, and ease of finding employment

</comment><comment><USER31> Find exercise you enjoy and stick to it. Some friends got me into indoor climbing (bouldering, no ropes, just thick mats) and I love it. Your physical state is irreverent. Take chances, let your guard down, be humble, meet people.

The rest will come to you.

</comment><comment><USER32> Read some biographies. See what other people have done with their lives, at 21 you have skills and your life is a blank canvas - get excited.

One thing that always seemed neat is to teach English in a foreign country maybe that would be a worthwhile diversion for you.

In terms of tech, the really exiting stuff happens at the edges, which right now is AI, blockchain, web assembly, decentralized systems - find a way to inject yourself into the new and exciting frontiers of tech -- if you are just debugging some enterprise CRUD app, don't blame tech, blame corporate.

</comment><comment><USER33> Start with what you enjoy doing. Write code that interests you. Do it for no other reason than to scratch you personal itch. Share it on GitHub. Get good at it through enjoyment of the 'work'.

Then you'll have another perspective to evaluate future opportunities and you'll have a much better chance of getting a job that also interests you. Getting paid to do something you enjoy and that interests you doesn't feel like a job, but it sure is.

</comment><comment><USER34> Not a dev myself, but my wife is. My wife finds it hard to feel fulfilled and motivated at work unless it involves some sort of cause she believes in. Have you considered working at a Non-Profit based around something important to you? From what I've read at reddit non-profit/charity work can be really fulfilling, but you do have things like shoestring budgets to deal with.

</comment><comment><USER35> I don't think there are many people around who get satisfaction from writting enterprise-software. In the beginning you might get some, because it was all new, shiny and you had responsability and could learn new things? But now you reached the basic level of grind, and there is no fun in this. So basically you are bored.

What you should do is to find something fresh, something enriching, something distracting, something valuable. Many developers have side-projects for this. Or are trying out new things. Doing this at work is a bit problematic, so you should be careful what you actually do there. But automating your work, enhancing your workflow and learning to spark up your worklife is always accepted if you get your work done.

The other option to take a longer vacation. 4 Weeks, 3 Months, depends on your situation. And don't overwork yourself of course. 7-8 Hours a day is more then enough. A human can't code for longer then 4-5 hours a day without losing it anyway.

</comment><comment><USER36> Have you thought about working part time? If you're 21 you probably don't have high expenses, can rent a room in a shared house instead of a full house/flat.

If your job pays decently you should be able to make it. With the remaining time you can go back to college, work on side projects or a hobby.

Then of course it depends on where you live and how much you're paid.

</comment><comment><USER37> Travel.

Also read some non-fiction and unplug from tech. Your a human, not an algorithm.

<comment><USER38> Love the non-fiction advice, I wish it had been a bigger push when I was in school. I didn't enjoy reading until I picked up non-fiction as an adult.

</comment></comment><comment><USER39> My 2cents would be balance your life. Workout, read, meditate and look for another gig where you find the work interesting. Going to college would just delay this phase . Last advice would be travelling, it would do wonder to your mindset .

</comment><comment><USER40> Travel, take some time off and enjoy life (for a while). It will help you put things in perspective and maybe get clear about what you want to do next.

I quit my job last year and backpacked 2 months around Europe and it was a very richful experience.

</comment><comment><USER41> I've been where you are (although I was 22). Going to university and, more importantly, studying something other than computer science was what really helped me. First it opened my eyes to all kinds of interesting areas where my programming skills could be applied. Secondly I found that being a pretty good programmer with solid domain knowledge in something other than computers (math and economics in my case) opened up a whole bunch of interesting jobs that weren't really available to someone who was just a pretty good programmer.

edit: One caveat is that I'm in Europe so university was pretty cheap for me. I have no idea how I would have reasoned if going to university had cost me an additional $20k+ a year.

<comment><USER42> My experience is exactly the opposite. I also made the choice to study something else other than CS and got into law school. Now, I'm in my final year, and I don't know what to do.

I feel sad that I didn't have the opportunity to study CS. Outside of school/internships all I think about is still computers. I've been struggling with this throughout my entire college life.

My advice would be that if you're genuinely interested about something, think real hard before choosing another field of study.

</comment></comment><comment><USER43> I'm not sure based on the description if this is a burnout. (When I think of burnout I think uncontrolled crying, physiological reactions etc.) If you have a real burnout you should seek professional assistance if that is an option.

If it is just a lack of motivation then things are a bit easier and I think you have at least two choices, maybe more:

1\. (I've done this when I was just a few years older than you.) Accept that your current work is boring but otherwise OK. Do side projects. Build a portfolio.

2\. (I've done this as well.) Or you can start applying for every job that looks interesting. Since you already have a job you have a great starting point.

3\. (Not always an option.) Go back to school as others have mentioned.

</comment><comment><USER44> Burned out at 21? Too your for that. Most engineers burn out in 30s/40s.

I'd suggest one of:

1) Stop working for startups. Get a job at some boring enterprise company. This might give you a) pay rise (big boring corps pay more than startups) and b) better work life balance

2) college - no reason not to go to college, you are still very young so this is ideal time, it will get harder and harder the older you get

3) travel - I assume you have saved some cash before you have burned out. Take few months off, go travel to some interesting countries, explore the world.

Or any combination of these three would probably work out well for you. Probably best order would be 3), then 2), then 1).

<comment><USER45> I warn against boring big enterprises 1). If they are boring then they are usualy soul killing with all processes/plays/politics and you have no way to improve things without stack of aprovals. Regarding work/life balance all depends on company culture. I have witnessed constant crunch times in various companies, it is up to management and yourself if you want to fight for a badge of honour.

I recommend part-time/freelance work gigs + study + travel at once :) That is all possible in Europe and with Erasmus.

</comment></comment><comment><USER46> #1: Realise that work is the way of the world. You'll need to get used to it. If you're burnt out after only 18 months at a job (and it's not the fault of a bad job etc), that's a problem you're going to have to solve at some point, because you have decades of work ahead of you.

#2: But you don't have to solve it now. Go travelling while you're young, healthy, and presumably have few significant commitments. It's not guaranteed, but you'll likely get more insight into what you want to do next while travelling as well.

</comment><comment><USER47> Go traveling for a month or two. Don't write any code. Just do whatever you want to do and clear your mind.

Ideally find a new job that is cool with you starting in a few months.

</comment><comment><USER48> Maybe go working for a software development organization that does something not-just-for-money-&-profit, but instead because of a vision?

Then maybe you can focus on having an impact on other people's lives, rather than appeasing shareholders & hierarchical bosses.

For example: [https://www.norrskenfoundation.org/](https://www.norrskenfoundation.org/) — I'd like to work there if I didn't have a job already :- )

</comment><comment><USER49> Take a break, travel the world, see new things, meet new people, do something different every day. You might be able to use your skills to directly help a community or be able to do some tutoring or teaching, either voluntarily or for money, either way it is a good thing to see how what you know can help people out, and introduce you to new ways of thinking. Your twenties should be awesome fun and relatively care-free :-)

</comment><comment><USER50> Read and learn about the world. Software is an achievement of western knowledge and determination. College can possibly help you with this but it's likely to burn you out again as well. Make some art. Start making music. Travel to another country. Read some books. You might just find yourself running back to your computer to code. Maybe.

</comment><comment><USER51> I had something similar.

What I was recommended, which worked for me, was this.

Go do something that has no connection with your career expectations, which can't be justified by any means other than to say, "I did it because I wanted to."

Once you take a moment for yourself, and it soaks in, you will have a better frame of reference to understand the best next step.

</comment><comment><USER52> Hey there. I'd like to make two suggestions: find a therapist, and go to a meditation retreat. As for the later, I can strongly recommend a 10-day Vipassana retreat - I believe the nearest center to you is in North Fork, CA. Check it out at dhamma.org. It won't be relaxing, but it will help you practice _putting things down_.

<comment><AUTHOR> This looks amazing. I've been considering something like this but wasn't sure where to start. Thanks!

<comment><USER52> Good! I hope curiosity, at least, drives you to go, and luck gives you a spot on the schedule. If you do go, please get in touch and let me know how it went!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER53> I was in your position a few years ago. A year older than you, I left my job completely, moved to a new city (SF) and live a fantastic new life. What you need is to find your people, be among peers who you respect and feel good about what you do.

The Bay Area is the place to be, if you're not there.

<comment><USER54> Wow. I also live in a city where tech is not popular. How many people here have found the same thing when moving to SF?

<comment><AUTHOR> I live in Seattle but the people hear are all in institutional tech, Microsoft, Amazon, etc. Not too many truly innovate startups here either, mostly B2B. Was in The Bay recently and really liked it.

<comment><USER38> Is it just me or does it seem like people glaze over how hard it is to land a job with the major players. I have a degree in CS and every time an article popups about their interviewing process or a random comment on a successful applicant I am extremely discouraged. Graph theory, cutting edge technologies, bit shifting and IEEE 754 are not things I use on an everyday basis and topics such as these always pop up. I interviewed with Microsoft coming out of school and the high level discussions were great but when it came to white boarding algorithms in c for finding substrings and palindromes recursively I fizzled out. Believe it or not I am actually one of the "stars" at my company but feel woefully inadequate compared to people hired by the well known SF companies. If only it were as easy as Hacker News makes it seem.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER55> Find a job that is not a startup. Other companies often have less stressful environments.

You can even go to another country, many European countries limits how much you work every month. Sweden is for example really great in this regard.

</comment><comment><USER56> If you don't love software development, get out. (Maybe wait until you have a financial cushion first, though.) You won't last.

Do consider other jobs in the neighborhood. Testing, training, project management, etc. Your background can be o f use.

</comment><comment><USER57> Do something that feels important. Maybe a tech/sysadmin job at a non profit that involves coding once in a while?

It doesn't seem like you like academic environments, but if you do a PhD might be a nice idea.

</comment><comment><USER58> Go work in a bank (read: retirement home) for a year.

/s

Sorry to hear about your situation. Is taking a sabatical an option for you? You could study or do a course for six months. Stay with the folks while you unwind and re-humanize.

</comment><comment><USER59> I agree with the other posters. College is a great option. I've never met a person who regretted education and now is a great time in your life to do it.

</comment><comment><USER60> Here is my advice:

Email Derek Sivers. He's helped me in the past, though I didn't listen, deep down in my heart of hearts I know he is right.

<comment><USER38> For the unenlightened, who is Derek Sivers and what does he do?

<comment><USER14> Here's a bit of an intro to Derek. This article has helped me go from a hopeless teen to a 22 year old with years of industry experience making 6 figures in tech: [https://sivers.org/kimo](https://sivers.org/kimo)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER61> Maybe it's time for a career change. Consider that carefully, as the older you get, the harder it'll be to switch careers.

</comment><comment><USER62> You'll have a constant flow of "nexts," whether you want them or not, they come.

</comment><comment><USER63> It's possible to switch careers. Medicine was appealing to me.

</comment><comment><USER64> Consider a day job at an NGO that you identify with.

</comment><comment><USER65> Don't do college. It's a waste. Even for building a network, it's a waste. It's 2017, not 2007. Instead, start something!</comment>


Realtime Voice Analysis with Google Glass - <AUTHOR> http://neatocode.tumblr.com/post/58240451527/realtime-voice-analysis-with-glass

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for checking out our hack! Let me know if you have any questions.</comment>


Search Smarter, Save what you find in tabs! - <AUTHOR> http://www.optimalaccess.com <comment><AUTHOR> Is there a business in managing the grouping of links! So you browse, you bookmark, you organize and you share your links and organization all at once. This would be an improvement over what a digg does in that they store your links and rank them by popularity, but they manage the grouping (Politics, Technology, etc). Does this resonate?</comment>


Why does torvalds/linux have ∞ contributors? - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/torvalds/linux <comment><USER2> Wait... So Linux is under torvalds? It's not github.com/linux/linux?

<comment><USER3> Linux is as usual on kernel.org. This is just a mirror</comment></comment>


A Macbookpro alternative with similar build quality - <AUTHOR>

Hi,
I need to get a new laptop and I wont like to get a new laptop with a build quality thats very similar to a macbookpro. Any suggestions? <comment><USER2> Thinkpad.

Don't bother listening to some other people recommending a MacBook of some variety if you really want to run Linux on it. As someone else mentioned, I've never gotten Linux working on it and not have it heat up to crazy levels with the fans running constantly. The multitouch features of the trackpad don't work and so on.

Your best nearest bet is a Thinkpad. Be sure to DDG (DuckDuckGo) the particular model you're looking at to get a jist of other people's experiences running Linux on it.

An old X200 here and Ubuntu runs great.

<comment><USER3> Agreed that the model as well as features present are the important issue. Most thinkpads have either perfect or near perfect linux support, so the main question is which feature set and known design defects the OP will want to live with. For example, some keyboards or screens are better than others, some batteries last longer than others (x220!), and so forth.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> The price on Apple hardware isn't a premium. It's that price b/c it's top shelf quality. Even the displays on the Dell Precision laptops don't capare to those any anything Apple makes.

+1 for the user who suggested a used Mac. I've recommended them that option to a few friends, no one has ever regretted it.

As far as quality goes, I'm still using a 4 year old Macbook (not even a pro) on a daily basis. Still very relevant with a 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo and 4 GB ram.

<comment><USER5> Quality isn't just a single thing. If Thunderbolt for instance adds $50 to the price, and I don't plan to use Thunderbolt, that $50 is a fair premium but not something I wish to pay for.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Thinkpads. They might not look as nice, but they are very robust.

I have already dropped mine from the table and flooded the keyboard with an entire glass of diet soda.

If I am out working with other people I always smile when people start putting their macbooks into special protective sleeves and what not. I just take mine and throw it into my bag.

</comment><comment><USER7> Perhaps I can narrow down exactly what you're looking for. What are you looking for in terms of:

-screen size (any preference toward matte or glossy?)

-weight

-CPU and video card

-battery life

-cost

<comment><AUTHOR> I am looking at 1\. overall build quality i.e. something macbookish 2\. battery like 6+ hours would be sweet 3\. cost under $1000 4\. screen size - 15" matte (I hate glossy, print magnets) Thanks

<comment><USER7> Given another reply that you posted, I'm not sure 6+ hours would be reasonable using Ubuntu without a massive battery slab. Even with a bunch of tweaking, battery life tends to be lower than what one would get with Windows.

I would suggest you look at HP EliteBooks and Lenovo ThinkPads. For instance, a ThinkPad W510 or EliteBook 8540w.

I personally own an HP EliteBook 8540p.

-2.53 gHz i5 CPU

-NVIDIA NVS 5100m (equivalent to the GeForce 330m)

-15" matte 1600x900 resolution (quality comparable MacBook: [http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=5881&p=...](http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=5881&p=2))

-4-5 hour battery life, although I'm still using the original battery

-built like an absolute tank

I got it off of eBay for $600 last summer. The models I mentioned above can have 1080p configurations, and I know for a fact that the 8540w has the DreamColor configuration, which is about the best display you can have in a laptop; they're quite rare, however.

You'd probably have trouble picking up brand-new, refreshed models for under $1000, but that would be the same case for a MacBook.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> You're probably looking for this: <http://www.razerzone.com/blade>

</comment><comment><USER5> Thinkpads have good quality, and may come in cheaper than a Macbook.

<comment><USER9> They're definitely 30-50% cheaper, but it shows. The ThinkLight instead of backlit keyboard, smaller single-touch trackpad, heavy 9-cell battery that quickly loses its capacity, mediocre screen, heavier weight.. but it still holds its own compared to other laptops in the same price range.

<comment><USER10> This is a difficult comment to respond to, because it is not clear whether you are trying to describe a specific ThinkPad model, or trying to justify the fact that some Apple laptops cost more.

For example, I am writing this on a T500, which does have a single-touch trackpad, but it is also 4 years old. Its successor (the T510), as well as the present model (the T520) both have multi-touch touchpads. If you have experience with an older model of ThinkPad and are trying to compare it to the current generation of Apple laptops, I would argue that you do not have enough data to make a comparison.

<comment><USER9> The last one I used was a T400; I should have mentioned that. I wasn't aware that the newer models have multitouch trackpads - are they nice?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> The HP Envy has similar design to the Mac Books

</comment><comment><USER12> Take a look at Dell XPS 15Z

</comment><comment><USER13> Get a macbook pro! (sorry, couldn't resist)

<comment><AUTHOR> dude, I am considering cost and also the fact that I am more of a Ubuntu user.

<comment><USER14> Similar build quality is going to demand a similar price. Apple memory upgrades are about the only thing remaining that really is overpriced, but their base hardware is pretty reasonable. And you can definitely dual boot it or just wipe the OS and reinstall :)

Also, if you're not dead-set on having a brand new machine, you could get a used one on craigslist and save a couple of hundred.

Other than that, the only laptops that I've seen come close have been Sony's, and they tend to be even more expensive.

<comment><AUTHOR> How many people here have installed any linux distro on a macbook pro after wiping OSX? how was the experience like? I would really like to know. And how much does the OS cost contribute to the overall price of a macbook pro? would buying one and wiping it clean make economic sense?

<comment><USER15> I tried installing Ubuntu on a MBP my office bought for me. It was a while ago, but the killer for me was that the fans didn't work properly. It would overheat within 5 minutes of use.

I highly recommend a Strata from ZaReason (zareason.com). Unless you're going to be doing a lot of graphics-intensive stuff, definitely go for one with an Intel graphics card, b/c nvidia is a pain on Linux.

<comment><USER16> > I highly recommend a Strata from ZaReason (zareason.com). Unless you're > going to be doing a lot of graphics-intensive stuff, definitely go for one > with an Intel graphics card, b/c nvidia is a pain on Linux.

I'm assuming you meant to qualify that as NVIDIA's _mobile_ chipsets. Though, I can't say I've had much trouble with them. I've certainly never had much trouble with their desktop products under Linux--I currently dual boot my home desktop between Linux and Windows with an NVIDIA card, and it runs just as well under either (ironically, Minecraft plays more smoothly under Linux...).

Certainly there are some general complaints related to NVIDIA's Linux drivers, but to be completely honest, I've run many NVIDIA cards--including mobile-- under a variety of Linux flavors over the years and had few troubles. I even tried installing Arch on an ancient Dell laptop of mine for fun which is equipped with one of the early GeForce Go chipsets, and it still works quite well (KDE4 not so much, but LXDE is perfect); however, it requires installing an older driver.

I'd like to know where you got your information from, because I've run Ubuntu, Gentoo, and Arch all on top of fairly recent NVIDIA hardware. The only relatively minor difficulties I've had have all involved minor tweaks to xorg.conf but even those have greatly diminished in necessity.

<comment><USER15> Good points all. I can only speak from personal experience. With my laptop, I'm usually plugging in to various monitors of different sizes and in different positions. In order to configure the monitors, you have to use NVIDIA's proprietary configuration tool, which "works", but fails consistently in weird patterns. For instance, when I first try to configure a new monitor, it consistently freezes up for about 30 seconds, reverts to the old display, and then magically works when I try it again. And heaven forbid I want to align my monitors along the bottom edge (or "absolutely positioned"). There's a bug somewhere between the card, the configuration software, X, and Gnome that leaves half of one of my monitors black and inaccessible.

As long as I leave my monitor setup as is and don't stir up too much dust, though, it works great.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Kixeye Recruiting Video - <AUTHOR> http://venturebeat.com/2012/07/31/kixeyes-recruiting-video-lobs-serious-f-bombs-at-rivals/

<comment><USER2> This is pretty brilliant. I'm guessing all those talented rank-and-file Zynga employees feeling screwed by the insider stock scandal that allowed executives to cash out while they had to wait and watch the stock collapse might want to check out this video.</comment>


Java's Binary Search Madness - kiril-me http://jvm.today/2017/02/javas-binary-search-madness.html <comment> kiril-me Java is still not dead and people are starting to figure that out.</comment>


The steady decline of Mac quality - <AUTHOR>

Have you noticed that in the fancy new iTunes, the song name does not update when in mini-player mode? How there are no tool-tips? Remember when Macs used to be good? Now they are just another company with no pride in their work. All intent on flash and shoddy workmanship. <comment><USER2> That's, like, your opinion, man.

</comment><comment><USER3> Nice try, Samsung.</comment>


Why We All Hate Consultants (and Why It's Okay) - <AUTHOR> http://nilofer.posterous.com/why-we-all-hate-consultants-and-why-its-okay <comment><USER2> Two things here:

1) This stings, being a consultant myself who actually knows how to work with clients. Sounds like the writer hired a consultant and heard what he needed to hear, instead of what he wanted to hear.

2) I think it's a bit off-center to say

 _Sometimes, different parts know what they know, but they don't share it across the silos._

and then conclude the article with

 _After all, we know how to fly to the moon. You'd think we could get healthier businesses._

There's probably a reason for that. Technological advancements that get man to the moon aren't really going to trickle down to help you run your business in a more profitable way. After all, by the admission of the writer, not everyone who has knowledge always shares that knowledge.

Whether or not it's actually related to what you're trying to accomplish. I for one wish the "Man to the moon" comparison would just die. Everywhere.</comment>


Rails 3.1 has zero Issues - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/rails/rails/issues?labels=3-1-stable&sort=created&direction=desc&state=open&page=1

<comment><USER2> Which isn't a valid metric. There are no issues in the tracker with the "rails-3-1" label, but there are a number of issues in the components of rails (ActiveRecord et.al)

The full list of all Rails related issues: [https://github.com/rails/rails/issues?sort=created&direc...](https://github.com/rails/rails/issues?sort=created&direction=desc&state=open)

As you can see, there are quite a few for the 3.1 code base.

</comment><comment><USER3> Because you need to look under the milestones section. Still 6 left:

[https://github.com/rails/rails/issues?milestone=1&state=...](https://github.com/rails/rails/issues?milestone=1&state=open)</comment>


Is It Mathematically Possible to Run Out of New Music? - <AUTHOR> https://gizmodo.com/5962375/is-it-possible-to-run-out-of-new-music <comment><USER2> [https://www.artinamericamagazine.com/news- features/news/iann...](https://www.artinamericamagazine.com/news- features/news/iannis-xenakis/)

[https://monoskop.org/images/7/74/Xenakis_Iannis_Formalized_M...](https://monoskop.org/images/7/74/Xenakis_Iannis_Formalized_Music_Thought_and_Mathematics_in_Composition.pdf)

</comment><comment><USER2> [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUYtlMuN_V4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUYtlMuN_V4) "Sound" (1966-67), Pt. 1

</comment><comment><USER2> math is a language as is music. it would be similar to say: is it musically possible to run out of new mathematics? metaphorically speaking.</comment>


Nielsen: Mega-Menus Gone Wrong - <AUTHOR> http://www.useit.com/alertbox/mega-menus-wrong.html

<comment><USER2> I have a basic javascript implementation of a mega-menu here <http://minimul.com/because-mega-dropdowns-are-better.html> .

Yes, by default it does columns, however, it also has an option for doing rows.

</comment><comment><USER3> Always worth reading what Jakob shares for free. I don't find him groundbreaking by any means, but I do find him (his work) to be a solid reference backed up by actual research.</comment>


Tons of $80,000 entry-level jobs going ignored - <AUTHOR> http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/cyber-life/sd-me-connected-highered-20170417-story.html <comment><USER3> 'Paranoid' is too strong a word, but they tend to be hyper-cautious and some take pride in operating in 'stealth mode.' - <USER2>

</comment><comment><USER4> Is 80k worth it in places like san diego?</comment>