Ask HN: How did you deal with depression? - <AUTHOR> I am starting to get a little bit hopeless on this one. Once I had passions and stuff I wanted to do, I learnt enough JS to build a small app that has proven to be incredibly useful for my family. Then came university and almost all my passions have gone, I am a good student but as of lately I have been struggling with the courses I liked in the past.
Nothing excited me anymore, and not that I am sad. I still can crack a joke I still can smile but nothing seems to make me happy anymore. I think I might have depression. I play games and procrastinate all day and it doesn't make me feel any good it is just a getaway.
Sadly I live in a 3rd world country, where mental illness is not an illness. I can get little help from people. Our healthcare system simply doesn't work at all. So HN crowd, how do you deal with these feelings? <comment><USER5> This won't get a lot of votes, but it ended up as diet and exercise for me.

When I dropped caffeine and alcohol my anxiety went away. When I exercised my depression went away.

I tried a lot of things, but it ended up figuring out that I wasn't eating well or working out.

Now I do crossfit. I know, I know. It's a cult blah blah. But go try it. You need to be exercising every day to get all that endorphin goodness and plus, you meet a lot of fun people at crossfit. The community keeps me coming back. I don't get that biking (which I love) so I don't do it as much as crossfit. And I hate running. The key is to keep doing it, and that social component works magic. If you can work out at a home gym every day - good for you - <USER2> I lose interest and stop, then I get fat and lazy and depressed again.

As for food, I'm not a fan of cooking. But I found paleo then keto. And I avoid all the stuff you're told to eat. "healthy" grains, for example. I don't drink coke. Basically avoid all sugar. I'm basically paleo to paleo-keto end of the spectrum.

I really didn't think it would work but there it is.

<comment><USER6> I second this. I started keto and my depression went away, and although there is still anxiety, it is much lower, and it feels like I can DEAL with it, whereas before I felt helpless.

I was a neurology professor at a children's hospital in my previous job, and there is a ton of research being done studying the neurological effects of a low-carb diet, and they are, across the board, incredible. A common treatment for kids with epilepsy is the keto diet, so we had a lot of research and expertise in this area. Half of the department was on the diet, and I have been for close to two years now. I will never stop it. My wife and kids as well (though the kids are more paleo, since they have closer to 75-100 g carbs/day)

<comment><USER7> can you talk about what a typical keto diet is like? what foods does someone on a keto diet eat?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> 1\. Get medicated.

2\. Set one small baby-step goal each day. (set an appointment today, etc.) Change the goal every time.

3\. Change your environment. Move cities or schools if need be.

4\. Exercise. Start with one rep on day 1, two reps on day 2, etc. Baby steps.

5\. Ask for feedback on stuff. Any positive feedback helps motivate you to learn and do more projects.

6\. Seek a healthy relationship.

7\. Be vulnerable. Let somebody else that cares about you know of your state.

8\. Be spiritually-curious. I'm christian and that inspires a lot.

9\. Realize when your "objective observations" are not objective. Don't be blindsided by emotion.

10\. Vent your emotion in a healthy and controlled way.

11\. Write one sentence about your week every week. Again, baby steps.

12\. Never do drugs. This just amplifies your problems.

13\. This includes no smoking.

14\. If you make lists and spreedsheets, track the frequency you leave the house.

15\. Make alarms on your phone.

16\. Volunteer once a week.

These are mostly based on experience and personal observations.

<comment><USER9> Sure, you shouldn't rush to get medicated, but you should be open to medication as an option. I believe depression is often chemically caused, and if you've tried healthy living, meditation, etc., there are many good, relatively benign, well tested medical options out there.

<comment><USER10> Indeed. Medication are not silver bullets and usually won't solve problems alone, but a right pill may be just what's needed to enable you to deal with the problems. Personally, I'm on SSRIs and (despite getting a common side effect) I'm very happy with them - even though I still suffer from depression symptoms, they're nowhere near the level I had before getting those pills, which pretty much restored my ability to hold my head above water.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> It was hard at times: when you hit a slump you want to stay in that slump - <USER3> was hard fighting my way out, but it can be done.

"Stop and smell the roses." Take the time to notice the beauty in things around you: both nature and concrete. I'm talking about the most sublime things. I first noticed it one night when I was driving home - the lights were reflecting off this dirty little dam of no significance, but for some reason I noticed it and for some reason it was beautiful. For a very long time after that I would make a point of noticing that little spot every day on the way home. Out of that habit I then started noticing more and more things. When you become depressed use that happy place as an anchor and hold onto it.

I realized that I used to think the same way as a kid: everything in the world was wondrous and happy - I think everyone forgets how to see the world that way. Re-learn that mindset.

Be very respectful toward alcohol, cannabis and caffeine. Too much of any will set you back.

Finally, something like 80% of the human race has a 5-MTHF deficiency (for genetic reasons, Google it). It presents as vitamin B deficiency and is therefore often misdiagnosed as depression and some learning disabilities (including trouble concentrating). If you can't get it from a chemist (I can't, 3rd world too) check herbal/homeopathy stores (which is how I get it). Speak to your doctor before taking it and ask for advice, you'll need to take it for quite a while before you start noticing a difference - 2 to 4 weeks at least.

Believe in yourself because I believe in you, I know you can do it. If at all possible get meds.

<comment><USER12> What a bunch of hooey. Just 'deciding to be happy' is nonsense for someone with major depressive disorder (the medically accepted name of the disorder, as opposed to the term 'clinical depression', which people without experience tend to use...) I'm glad things worked out for you but this is not helpful advice for someone who is actually depressed. It's like telling someone who's short to just decide to be taller.

<comment><USER11> I guess you're right. I'll just remove that one paragraph. If you are at a doctor you are more than welcome to weigh in on the 2 opinions I had at 10 after being bullied for 3 years. I might not be able to remember all the terminology, but I do remember not being able to get out of it. I do remember not being able to have more than 1 friend up until I was 20. I do remember drinking myself into a pit at 22 (2 six packs a night, alone for a year, sound healthy?). I do remember digging myself out of it, alone, without help. Because for some reason I can't explain I started believing that I could. I am now happy. The only thing I have left is excruciating existential anxiety, can I beat that too? Fuck yeah.

Bunch of hooey, though.

I can tell you one thing: OP isn't going to win by believing it's impossible because even the best meds only provide symptomatic relief. They don't fix the underlying problem. It's like giving a short person a mirror that makes them look taller. Meds can help you win, meds are good. I would never recommend someone to avoid them. All irrelevant: OP indicated depression is not an illness in his country. He/she supposedly can't see a doctor. No meds. All that's left is will power.

Knowing someone else did it makes all the difference.

Finally, as an expert on the matter, where is your advice? Or are you here tear OP down? I _know_ OP can do it, all you know is what a major depressive disorder is.

<comment><USER10> I don't think you really should have removed that paragraph :). Yes, it jumped on me too, but after thinking about it for a second, I actually appreciated it. I've never been able to think myself out of something like you did, but I found it reassuring. I actually envy you that skill; myself I was also drinking myself every night for almost a year; at some point I run out of money for cheap beers, stopped drinking, realized that I like being sober and never returned to the habit. So in my case this seems more like random walk around the potential gradient, with hope that at some point I'll accidentally escape the local minimum.

If you have any tips about "excruciating existential anxiety" (of which I've been suffering for half the decade already, recently successfully moderated by SSRIs) I'd be more than glad to hear them. Right now the only coping strategy I have is to ignore it, but it interferes with my ability to concentrate and plan for the future - I'm literally unable to plan for more than a week-two in advance without getting serious emotional pains.

<comment><USER11> > If you have any tips about "excruciating existential anxiety"

I've found that the more I think about it the worse it gets - which makes sense: it's habit-forming. Try this:

1\. Stay on the SSRIs - they can help you learn how to break the habit.

2\. Pick a "safe topic." It doesn't have to be interesting (although that probably helps), but should just have a good chance of _not_ leading to existential issues.

3\. Next time you start thinking about existential issues, start thinking about your topic instead.

I have no idea if it works in the long-run but it's what I am doing right now. I'm not sure if the underlying cause for the anxiety will ever go away, but if I can habitually stop thinking about it then it might as well no longer be there.

Also, it's usually worst when I am trying to go to sleep. I put on YouTube with brain-numbing content face-down next to my pillow: nothing stimulating (interesting or humorous).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> One time I got on to a bus and sat in front of an old gentleman who kept looking up at me occasionally. When he got off the bus and walked passed me he said: "Whatever it is, don't let it beat you kid.". I must have looked physically wrecked that day. Ever since then those words have stayed with me.

Chin up, OP.

</comment><comment><USER14> I've battled a life-time of depression and ADHD and here is what I've learned.

You need to engineer your entire life to suite your personality, life style and mental shortcomings.

This takes time and trial and error.

Whenever a depression spell hits, I prepare myself for battle.

Sometimes I am as helpless as simply knowing there is not much else I can do but wait a few weeks for it to pass, and aim to minimize the amount of long term disruption to my life and goals.

Accepting it, accepting that at times you can be powerless and totally in the grip of this beast, but also that it will definitely pass again.

Most depressive spells pass relatively quickly but I've had 1-2 year spells.

Yet today at 38, my life is happy, fulfilling, satisfying and challenging.

I also am prescribed medications for both my conditions, and I can say that if you are on a med that doesn't work for you it is really bad, and when you are on a med that accords well with your particular chemistry it's like a major life turn-around. This involves trial and error with the best Psychiatrist you can afford.

I sometimes do take breaks from my anti-depressant to effects, but on balance I cannot imagine my life had I never discovered these meds.

Therapy has not been helpful to me overall. But spending a lot of time learning emotional skills, re-evaluating beliefs and feelings, and getting deeply in touch with what motivates me, what kills my motivation, what my emotional needs are etc all helps a ton.

Feel free to email directly on andries dot malan at gmail dot com if you looking for someone in tech entrepreneurship with plenty battle scars to share experience with.

I wish you all the best - and wish to tell you that you can definitely learn to find a happy and fulfilling life no matter how shit things look and feel for you at the moment.

</comment><comment><USER15> Action seems to be best treatment. When I start doing things (yes I know its lot difficult) I build a stair out of black cloud hanging over my head.

Look for easiest project you can do and steps you can do to make that project work once that's done look for your next project. These small projects build your stairs / steps to rise above dark cloud and see the daylight once again :)

</comment><comment><USER16> You can try cognitive behaviour therapy. Ideally this would be face to face with an experienced therapist. But if there are no therapists available you can either do computer guided CBT or self guided from a book.

Moodgym is a respected website: [https://moodgym.anu.edu.au/welcome](https://moodgym.anu.edu.au/welcome)

Mind Over Mood is a respected book. [http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/0898621283/](http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/0898621283/)

If you've tried CBT and it's not working you may want to see a doctor and get some meds.

</comment><comment><USER17> I'm going to start with a fact that you likely won't want to hear: There is no magic bullet. Non-situational depression is something you will wrestle with your entire life. There is no cure, only treatments. That said, you can do a lot to alleviate the symptoms. Ranked in order of importance:

1\. Sleep

Get good sleep. Research circadian rhythms, and try to understand your own 'sleep physiology'. Within the constraints of your work, try and sleep at optimal times for YOU. For me, going to bed late, waking up late, is best. I feel more rejuvenated on 4 hours of sleep within my 'sleep window' than I do of 8 hours of sleep outside of it. Find what works for you.

2\. Intense, social, exercise.

Other's have mentioned cross fit, but boxing is great too. It has to be INTENSE and there needs to be a SOCIAL component to keep you motivated. You should leave your workout feeling completely destroyed. In my opinion, just going to the gym doesn't work. You need to be part of a fitness community. The social aspect, combined with the intense workout, can work wonders. Go regularly.

3\. Diet.

Avoid junk food. Cut out hard drugs, obviously. Cook for yourself, if you can.

4\. Purpose.

Find something in life that excites you, and pursue it. Find a community of people that are also interested in that and join that community. Contribute to that community, whenever you can. Form relationships with others in that community, as you pursue your passion.

\----

Discipline, and regularity, are vital to success. If you do these 4 things, you'll find with time, that your depression weakens it's grip on you. Be patient with point number 4. Don't be discouraged, if right now, you don't have a calling, or a purpose. Let life happen, and go where the wind blows.

</comment><comment><USER18> I make myself adhere to my usual daily habits as much as possible. Depression makes it really attractive to lounge around all day. I try to get up and shave, and shower, and dress even if I have nowhere to go. It usually happens more slowly, but I also usually feel a little better afterward. I'm never happy with myself if I forego those daily habits.

I try to sit outside a little bit if I can. There's a lot of evidence at this point that exposure to sunlight in the morning is a good way to help improve your sleep, which is a major component of depression. I never want to sit outside, but I make myself do it anyway.

I try not to be too angry or upset with myself. To some extent, what I'm experiencing is outside of my control. I'm sick, just as if I had the flu. So I try to relax a little. Beating myself up never makes me feel better.

I try to remember something I used to enjoy, and I try to do that thing again, only I try to take it easy. For example, reading: I never have enough time to read anymore. I won't be in the mood for a novel, but maybe one of my old Robert Asprin books would be nice.

I try not to let my diet get _too_ awful, but, like being sick, I give in a little. I can't will myself into making three square meals a day, but I can make one good meal a day and not eat my way through a brand new bag of cookies.

I try to pick one little thing and finish it. Sometimes it's the laundry, sometimes it's the dishes, sometimes it's yard work, sometimes it's the pantry that's been under construction for a bit. I definitely don't pick anything ambitious. I need a victory, so I go and find the smallest, easiest little battle, and I win that one, and then tomorrow I'll look for another one, and keep doing that until I feel better.

If it's really bad, I contact a friend. I don't have many friends, but there is one that I can call whenever I'm in really bad shape, and he'll drop what he's doing and come over and we'll talk and get ice cream and play cards or something. (And I'll drop everything for him too.)

Those are a few of the things I do, anyway. Hope you find something there that helps.

</comment><comment><USER19> It sounds like you might be burned out by university (depression is a symptom of burnout).

Some suggestions that helped me and might work for you:

\- See whether there is anything in your life that might be causing the burnout/depression. Do you have any emotional issues in your life (i.e. something in your life causing anger/resentment)? Do you have excessive stress/responsibilities? Are you doing what you really want to do with your life?

\- Do more enjoyable, motivating, goal-oriented activities, both physical and mental.

\- Get sufficient sleep.

\- Give up alcohol and caffeine, as well as any other psychoactive substances.

</comment><comment><USER20> For me it got to breaking point at my job. I quit and moved to a cheap country for a few months. Ditched the laptop and smartphone and just relaxed, exeecised, read and cooked. Diet and exercise played a huge part, but I couldn't have got them in order while being depressed and stressed out. Being stressed meant always taking on a bit more than I could unload, and that feeling of being at max capacity constantly lead to neglecting day to day tasks such as eating well, shaving, exercising, socialising. This feeds back into the stress and it all can get out of control so quickly.

I'd like to say that's the end of the story but I ran out of money and moved home and got another software job. At first I tried not to work too hard but stress slowly accumulated again. Soon after I felt that deflated feeling in my stomach every morning. I do yoga, run and cycle which is a huge help but it goes through phases and is really the prevention, not the cure. I'm convinced now that I need a radical permanent change to stop slipping into burnout and depression. I love programming but 40 hours a week kills me. Your circumstances may differ but its good to examine if prolonged stress is at the core.

</comment><comment> Const-me A1. First, if you are from Russia — run ASAP. It will never get better. I did 4 years ago, never had anything resembling depression since that.

A2. If your country is OK (e.g. suicide rate there is less than 15 per 100000 people per year), I think you need to search for the intersection between things you have passion for, and things that are paid well. After you will find that intersection, I think you will get better. You see, when you was a kid, just following your passion was enough for happiness. In the adult world, however, you also need some financial independence for that.

A3. There are other things, like alcoholism or herbal medicine, but I generally do not recommend those to young people.

</comment><comment><USER21> Something I read in HN recently, maybe two months ago, resonate with me. It is about having guaranteed small wins. It is something that I starting to apply to most things that I do, and it has change the way I see things around me.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9782083](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9782083)

Also came across this list, the items about happiness are great suggestions.

[http://www.lifehack.org/articles/lifestyle/60-small-ways- to-...](http://www.lifehack.org/articles/lifestyle/60-small-ways-to-improve- your-life-in-the-next-100-days.html)

</comment><comment><USER22> If I read this right, your still in college and hitting the wall. Its fairly normal as a lot of people turn get burnout during college.

The diet and exercise suggestions are probably the best. Taking some walks and changing your daily scenery would probably help. Do you eat in the same place everyday? Pick a random book from the library and read it. If there are campus activities that seem interesting, go do them instead of playing games.

Don't freak out if your passion is missing for a while. Its just an ebb and you need to recharge. You'll already shown inspiration, you need to let it come back.

</comment><comment><USER23> I have been dealing with thing since 8 years now. I have tried to escape this with drugs/alcohol but that won't help. I can tell you everything that I've done but that won't be of any help to you.

What I think is, there is no hard coded way to deal with this issue. Understand your situation and keep fighting and there will come a time when something will push you over the brink. Honestly, if you ask me I really don't know what thing in particular helped me curb my depression, things started to change over time.

However, eating healthy food, reading books and exercise is a must.

</comment><comment><USER24> I am family of a psychologist. This comes from latest research.

Usually skipped but most critical, is simple trace minerals and vitamins.

Our food is entirely missing so much in the current day, because the same plots of land are farmed over and over (think 25-50 years for the same land).

Himalayan Sea Salt has the trace minerals, and supplementation with Vitamin D, Magnesium, and B-12 have specifically helped mood and energy.

You can get blood tests for these levels, but even in cases where levels are normal supplements have been shown to help.

</comment><comment><USER25> I struggled with depression for YEARS. I tried everything I could find. Exercise helped a lot. Coffee helped. Meditation helped. All of these things worked but I was still in really down. Finely after years I decided what have I got to lose and went on antidepressants.

It was the best thing I ever did. The world opened up for me. I was able to make a lot of changes that were very healthy in my life. I finely had outside interests other than work and sleep. It was like night and day.

</comment><comment><USER26> Exercise. Read "The best exercises for mental illnesses": [http://www.thementalrunner.org/p/the-best-exercise-for- menta...](http://www.thementalrunner.org/p/the-best-exercise-for-mental- illnesses.html?m=1)

(Via the "exercise out of depression" subreddit: [https://m.reddit.com/r/EOOD/](https://m.reddit.com/r/EOOD/) )

<comment><USER16> The evidence for exercise as a treatment for depression is weak at best.

You should probably not recommend exercise as a treatment for depression.

Of course, exercise is important and everyone should be exercising; and it might help with "resiliance".

[http://www.cochrane.org/CD004366/DEPRESSN_exercise-for- depre...](http://www.cochrane.org/CD004366/DEPRESSN_exercise-for-depression)

> When only high-quality trials were included, exercise had only a small > effect on mood that was not statistically significant.

<comment><USER27> > The evidence for exercise as a treatment for depression is weak at best.

That's what the link you give says...

> You should probably not recommend exercise as a treatment for depression.

But it doesn't say that.

It does say "When compared to psychological or pharmacological therapies, exercise appears to be no more effective, though this conclusion is based on a few small trials.", in which case, can anything be recommended?

The NHS still recommends exercise for treating depression, at least in some cases: [http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/stress-anxiety- depression/pages...](http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/stress-anxiety- depression/pages/exercise-for-depression.aspx) & [http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Depression/Pages/Treatment.aspx](http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Depression/Pages/Treatment.aspx)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> Before medication try Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, Read: Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy by David B. Burns

<comment><USER29> Seconded--actually I highly recommend The Feeling Good Handbook by the same author (David Burns). I've found it very helpful for dealing with procrastination as well.

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> Fall in love. Forget about development for a couple of weeks.

</comment><comment><USER31> Hey buddy! I won't make any claims against other's opinions here. We all _chose_ what we chose for ourselves.

Depression is the indirect result of cognitive dissonance. Cognitive dissonance is the result of holding conflicting beliefs and feelings inside yourself. That could be "I'm suppose to finish college" and "I want to go live in Thailand and code for a year", for example. When you hold two opposing beliefs, your brain attempts to resolve those beliefs through a series of rationalizations of your feelings. Rationalizations are excuses, but just sound better, as they are intended to resolve the dissonance so you can function somewhat normally emotionally. The more you attempt to avoid resolving these beliefs, the stronger your dissonance will be. All of this results in suffering. A little suffering now, resolving things and stating your real feelings, can help alleviate the symptoms of dissonance and the larger suffering you are experiencing today. Accepting a little ongoing suffering will eventually resolve the dissonance, but a choice will have to be made. BTW, a lot of people are challenged with undestanding how they actually feel emotionally. Celebrate the fact you already know you are sad. It's a helluva thing to be able to do that!

Buddhism, or more specifically the 8-fold path, is essentially a mind recipe for what I describe above. It goes something like this (with my spin on each step after the colons):

1\. Right view: understand the problem behind a given dissonance you hold (you may have multiple ones)

2\. Right intention: set intent to resolve one of the dissonances

3\. Right speech: talk about resolving it to others and don't represent actions or thoughts that attempt to keep the dissonance in place

4\. Right action: put the thing you are saying into action. don't just talk about it. do it.

5\. Right livelihood: don't let the important parts of your life keep your dissonance in place. jobs and school are livelihoods

6\. Right effort: keep plugging at the different dissonance bits you hold inside of you. never stop resolving them.

7\. Right mindfulness: learn to meditate, basically. there are a thousand ways to meditate. find one that works for you.

8\. Right concentration: don't let your brain fuck with you. you, your consciousness, is in control, not your brain. show it who's boss.

Good luck dude. I have faith you'll be just fine. You are here, after all. That's the first step.

</comment><comment><USER32> * A daily routine is incredibly powerful -- /whatever/ the routine is and /whatever/ it is that you do. If you find yourself playing computer games for two hours every night, then that might be how you learn to concentrate again. Don't fight it before you look at yourself appreciatively.

* Do anything you need to find back your cognitive strength. You will be less intelligent while your brain chemistry is broken. That shouldn't drag you down because it's absolutely normal and natural, but it's frightening if you are a student and programmer, and used to measuring your self-worth in how well you can concentrate.

* Sleep deprivation helps supress depression for a day. Might help you get back into gear every now and then.

* St John's Wort is worth giving a try. People discuss whether it's more helpful than antidepressants, but then again it often doesn't even count as medicine. Took six weeks to kick into my own brain, and cured its chemistry back up to a point that I could sustain myself. The way back out of depression was an existential rollercoaster of emotions and attitudes with increasing frequency: Weeks at first, hours at the end while I got more stable. Some medicine might be useful for dampening, but only for that.

* Don't insist on keeping social contacts. Depressed you is somebody else than healthy you, and you can rebuild all truly good connections even after a couple of years in case they break apart. Similarly, don't insist on keeping anything else in your life if you find it doesn't work out at the moment. This is where you change careers, majors, hobbys, as well as losing your girlfriend. Keep as many things as you comfortably can a constant however, just to make it easier on yourself.

* Cognitive behavioural therapy. There's a good book on it called Feeling Good that told me /exactly/ the lessons I had missed in life, but your mileage may vary.

* Do whatever feels good to you. Your major job in life now is to make yourself feel good. After all, most people feel better than you, so it's well within your right to ignore others (and others' expectations) while focussing on yourself.

</comment><comment><USER33> Very strong evidence now exists, including a mouse model of bipolar illness controlled by light exposure, that extending your photoperiod is the principle driver of depression. You require total darkness (but red light is okay, see last line.) And rigid hours of darkness. Sleep is important for depression, but only affects the aldosterone cycle. If you sleep into the morning light, you're still killing your melatonin-controlled cycle. The pRGCs that control our clock were only discovered rather recently, so it will be perhaps a generation before you hear this from a front line doctor.

pRGCs cannot detect red light.

</comment><comment><USER34> Think about how your talents can be used to help the needy. So many life saving nonprofits and ngo can use your help even at the volunteering capacity. You can also mentor someone who desires your skills one on one.

</comment><comment><USER35> I had pretty bad depression for my whole 3rd year as an undergrad, and the only thing that has helped me is making changes when things weren't working.

The hard part is that you don't want to make any changes, you just want to be sad (at least I did).

What I did was lighten my course load and try to do some stuff for fun. This meant doing more development for fun, seeing friends more often, having more new experiences, more exercise.

It's not easy, but it's worth it. Give it time, and on the really bad days, just know you're not alone and it gets better.

</comment><comment><USER36> > Sadly I live in a 3rd world country, where mental illness is not an illness. > I can get little help from people. Our healthcare system simply doesn't work > at all

My first suggestion would be to try and find professional help there, even if it's difficult. Did you search? Even if the healthcare system is bad, this doesn't mean that there are no good psychologists at all. If you've got nobody to ask, you can search for a professional association or for a college where clinical psychology is taught, and start from there.

</comment><comment><USER37> I was depressed at university. The courses weren't interesting, my neighbours were verbally abusive, and my long distance relationship was ending badly. I ended up going to the university psychiatrist and just cried my eyes out. I didn't pass with the grades I wanted but I got through it. If I'd do it again I'd just talk to people. Not everyone will understand but if you're lucky someone will. Other than that all I can say is "this too will pass"

</comment><comment><USER38> Meditation has helped me more than anything else, maybe even therapy. For years I did it "wrong." You can meditate to train focus, and you can meditate to dive through the layers of the mind. What helped me is the latter. The former helps you get work done, but it actually either makes the depression worse, or cuts you off from the world.

I don't know what the quality and breadth of instruction is, where you are in the world, so YMMV.

</comment><comment><USER39> I was bankrupted so medications were not an option.

I was aware of it did not make me feel better.

a girl said let's fuck because I am also depressed and it makes people depressed feel better. (she was bipolar)

She was lying, but I was kind of in love with her, so it made me feel better, but not her.

In fact it works. At least for me, even if I cared more about her than me.

Just loving people heal depression a lot, I guess.

Ho! And my parent's cat was nice with me. Maybe that was the key. But who knows?

</comment><comment> cha-cho Exercise and sunlight are scientifically proven to reduce depression. Indulge in each for at least one hour a day. Two books (with very long titles) that may be helpful in understanding and combatting the illness are: "The Depths: The Evolutionary Origins of the Depression Epidemic" and "How to Stubbornly Refuse to Make Yourself Miserable about Anything--yes, Anything!"

</comment><comment><USER40> Socialize. Get out of the tech bubble. Seriously!

One of the biggest problem of HN type folks is that they don't try to live a balanced life. Even the most hardworking people in the world try to balance things out.

Take some time out to meet some friends every week. Reach out to old friends and make new ones. Go live.

Counter-intuitive as it may sound, you'll soon see that your productivity has increased.

</comment><comment><USER41> If your procrastination is causing or deepening your depression, consider this book: [http://www.amazon.com/The-Now-Habit-Overcoming- Procrastinati...](http://www.amazon.com/The-Now-Habit-Overcoming- Procrastination/dp/1585425524) It helped me understand and break the procrastination cycle.

</comment><comment><USER42> Truth be told, I'm forever 2 weeks of inactivity away from a depressive episode.

I have to keep moving (exercise; running 2 or 3 times a week) AND keep my mind occupied by not concentrating on myself too much, otherwise I begin to shut down.

This is my trick, YMMV. I do believe you can do this without medication, and it does get easier to control as you get older. Good luck.

</comment><comment><USER43> I had the same feeling at last year. Now I'm optimistic & full energy. What did I do?

1\. I had a rest.

2\. I had read the great book "Unlimited Power" ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlimited_Power](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlimited_Power))

3\. I had done all practics from that book.

And my life was changed!

</comment><comment><USER44> It's possible that your courses are boring. After a while at university I was craving for measuring myself against the real world, not just against artificial problems set by the teachers.

Perhaps you could try doing something entirely different every once in a while?

</comment><comment><USER45> Seems to be consensus here, but exercise really helped me to stabilize my mood and bring back my positive stoicism. Still have trouble getting motivated, but at least I have these days where I passionately follow some new thing into the rabbit-hole.

</comment><comment><USER46> Exercise. Scientifically proven to make you feel happier. Whenever you're feeling down bust out some reps. After a few months you will feel great, sleep like a baby, and look amazing too!

</comment><comment><USER47> Get enough sleep and physical activity.

In my experience the brain follows the body. An active mind is generated by an active body. Likewise a sleepy and listless mind can be created easily.

</comment><comment><USER48> [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9873664](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9873664)

</comment><comment><USER49> Walk. Exercise and light will help you immensely.

Walking is an art form, like poetry, and will bring you exercise and light and awe.

It gets better.

</comment><comment><USER50> If you know that you are depressed and can talk about it, that's a good step and you should be glad to be aware of this.

It's difficult to quit playing games and procrastinate even when someone's not depressed...

Meeting new people and finding a project seems a like good thing, at least it worked for me. You should also try and going out for like walking, biking, or whatever.

And you should avoid medicine, alcohol or drugs.

<comment><USER51> I'd argue that admitting your depression on the internet anonymously holds no additional value whatsoever. It is the same as admitting it to yourself. I know because I've been there, done that.

Rest of your advice is sound though.

<comment><USER50> Many people do not even begin to admit they are depressed, that's what I was saying: it's admitting it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER52> Refocus on something else.

Rusty car can still move to beautiful destination.

Once you start moving - rust will gradually drop off...

</comment><comment><USER53> Daily vigorous exercise might help.

</comment><comment><USER54> Depression for me is like walking on a tightrope, it really is that easy to fall. But worse than falling is spiralling. If you feel yourself falling, command yourself to get up. If you can't get up, command yourself to drag your body. If you can't even do that, command yourself to move _anything_ , even if it's lifting a finger. The important thing here is that you must make sure that your mind can at least obey direct survivalist commands like this.

I realise that this sounds a little surreal but when I was depressed, what was in my head was much more real than the real world. In fact the real world seemed more like a ghost. I did that exercise mentally, then gradually moved to physical, such as commanding myself to sit up on bed after lying down for so long. Now I don't know how deep you are in, but if you are, start with this.

The guys here have been helpful with their suggestions but for me checklists didn't work. Checklists were actually bad for me, because I would realise that I couldn't do some/most of them - and then I would feel worse. There was a time too when I was so detached from the real world that checklists looked vague, silly even. Focus on forcing your body to obey simple, direct commands first.

I personally don't believe in medication. In one of my bluest episodes, I considered taking a drug like Aderall, just anything so I can pass my final year. I'm glad I didn't. I personally believe that depression doesn't come out of nowhere, but from a fundamental dissatisfaction buried deep inside. Do not start digging now though. Your mind is already chaotic/empty and you do not want to tangle things any further. Be gentle with yourself, be sensitive, and uncover them one by one, and keep assuring yourself that it's OK and mistakes are very OK. Again I'm sorry if this might sound surreal.

Contact with the real world is very important, but you must keep your circle very tight and very few. When I was depressed, the world seemed fast and cruel. But you must always tell yourself to give people a chance. I realised that I had an almost-subconscious prejudice against a certain type of people, namely those who seemed mild and mundane - in other words, boring and characterless. But it was those people who helped me the most, because when the world seems fast and cruel, 'boring' characters are refreshing and smiles give hope. I also had a difficult relationship with my mother, but I took a big decision to ignore my (mis)conceptions and confide a few things with her anyway. That was life-changing, because it repaired our relationship and I could finally see her as she is, and not someone who wants to trip me up (I had a childhood trauma based on embarrassment, and it was one of the root causes of my unhappiness). I'm not suggesting that you do exactly as I did here, but keep your circle small and tight so that it can eventually become a sort of haven.

The real world can sometimes be so overwhelming that you are not only scared of it, you freeze on the spot. Do not be so conscious of the real world, let it trickle in gradually. Though strip yourself bare first. Actually, we all live in bubbles and we forget quite a lot of things that are already around us. Beautiful and impossible things, that when you really think about it, it's a miracle that they exist. When you look out of the window, behold the sky! And the ships of cloud. And that child daisy-chaining since afternoon. The tastelessness yet purity of water. The way the light scatters through the blinds. Your hands that seem pinky-transparent when you hold them up. The world is a miracle and you're extremely privileged to witness it.

That's my story anyway. I believe that I've recovered but I know that I'm still on the tightrope, and it's so easy to lose balance. I absolutely loathed those years, I considered self-destruction so many times, but sitting here right now and typing this, I'm glad that I had the experience. It made me feel more human. And suddenly, lots of things don't actually matter, even failures - and I have plenty of those in my portfolio. Because being alive is a privilege. I'm not a survivor, I've been made new all over again. _But with a faculty for compassion._

(Another consequence of depression is my new ability to rattle off abstract things, and I've never been good at that ... oh well.)

So stay strong, listen to yourself and trust yourself. You can do this. Just keep getting up again because above all, you do not want things to spiral down. You're procrastinating, which is a good sign, because you've still got your feet anchored to this world. But do the things as I told you. You can do this. You can do this.

Keep safe :)

</comment><comment><USER55> Good weather, sunshine.

</comment><comment><USER56> Coke.

</comment><comment><USER51> Hey OP,

I'm 24, Male and living in a first world country. I've been suffering on/off since I was 15 - so almost 10 years, wow actually. I remember vividly when it started to come over me. At the time, all I wanted in my life at the time was a decent computer to play games. I saved every single penny and once I got the PC - I began getting depressed. Over the last 9 years it has gotten progressively worse. Perhaps the PC was just a coincidence; I really don't know.

Anyway, I have no reason to feel this way - I feel stupid. I feel like; how dare I feel this way when there are so many other people worse off than me. I'm so fucking privileged it would make others sick to their stomach to hear me complain about my feelings. I made it through the education system - <USER4> through my masters, and received top grades too (bar my first standard BSc. before I learned how to study properly and game the education system).

I am now employed and on a nice salary for my age (€40k starting, with free health insurance, and bonus). I drive a nice car (inherited). I have a girlfriend of 2 years (she knows - hardest thing I've ever done), and to top it off I know her about 20 years. Yes I know, almost my whole life.

I had my first major breakdown last year. It was actually sparked from a fight with my girlfriend I think. I was doing my masters and started a company on the side. It was a lot to take on, and my girlfriend is full time - if you know what I mean. So I broke.

I saw a counselor (sorry don't know how to spell that one, even being native English speaker), for about 3 months I think it was. I had a very limited budget when I was in university so I could only pay her €10 a week - which was so embarrassing as I pulled up in my 2008 BMW coupe. I felt so ashamed, but she understood my rare circumstance and was very helpful and I am so grateful for what she has done for me.

I was also suffering from an eating disorder at the time. I was borderline standard bulimic - and had full on exercise bulimia (arguably still do). I work out 4 times per week, but love bodybuilding so I guess that's a gray area. I was benching 100kg during my exam periods for my masters, and coding everything for my startup at the same time. Stupid amount of work. No wonder I was fucked.

I don't really know where I'm going with this, but I do know that you cannot let it get the better of you. I look at what I've achieved while dealing with the issues I have and I know that I am a driven person - no matter what. It may hold me back a bit, but it doesn't define me or change my determination.

Keep on keeping on is such a true statement. I make myself get up out of bed and worry about putting my pants on after. I isolate my thoughts to get through. I just drive to the gym, nothing else. Once I'm there, I just get out of the car, that's it. Before you know it, you are in the gym and you didn't miss another work out. Same goes for the rest of the things you want to accomplish.

My two parents also have alcohol addictions, which obviously doesn't help. My Dad was suicidal when he was my age, and had a brief stay in rehab within a mental hospital. My Mum is recently out of surgery due to years of dietary abuse, but continues to drink daily. I'd say if she went cold turkey - it'd kill her. I don't talk to my parents much anymore since I moved away. I'm OK with that, but I wish it didn't have to be this way.

Keep on keeping on.

</comment><comment><USER57> zoloft

</comment><comment><USER58> Moved.</comment>


Linux: Understanding File Descriptors and IO Redirection - <AUTHOR> http://symkat.com/59/understanding-file-descriptors-and-io-redirection/

<comment><USER2> "Although it is typically not important to know, it's worth stating anyway that while you can access these file descriptors though the above paths they actually exist in the memory allocated to the program by libc."

Incorrect. The file descriptors exist in kernel memory, and user code simply refers to them by number. (Sure, you have to allocate memory for the number, but that's not necessarily done by libc.)

</comment><comment><USER3> Unix scripting always amazes me. Every time I read a script or a blog post about it I learn something new.

After all these years using Linux, I don't remember ever noticing input redirection.

<comment><USER4> Randal Schwartz used to give out the "Useless use of `cat' award" to annoyed posters in comp.unix.shell because of the relative obscurity of the `<' operator.

[http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Useless%20Use%20of%20Cat%2...](http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Useless%20Use%20of%20Cat%20Award)

(actually his main point was that most unix commands take a file as an arguments, but for the ones that don't you can just slurp it into stdin with `<')

Nowadays, we could say the same thing about useless uses of `echo', given the modern `<<<' operator.

<comment><USER2> In those same modern shells, "echo" and "<<<" are both built-in, but "cat" is not.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> This article is a little bit imprecise at times. It refers to pipes as FIFOs and seems to mix up FILE* and file descriptors.

Also it has a lot more IO redirection and not really much file descriptors except for the very beginning. The description of how redirection works is rather vague. There should be something about how the shell dup()'s over standard file descriptors to create redirection.

<comment><USER6> I disagree. The post seems to me like it is aimed at learning new things, not an in-depth investigation on how the things you're already doing work in the background.

The things in the article are explained on their own level, and then a level below it, i.e. the file descriptors. How the file descriptors work, where they're stored, things like that, are well out of the scope of the article.

IMO.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> instead of /proc/PID/fd/XX you can simply use /proc/self/fd/XX if PID is simply the pid of the current process.

standard input/output/error are not necessarily character devices (as stated in the article). they can be anything (sockets, files, etc).

</comment><comment><USER8> _Let's use a line of Perl to see what the diff program saw._

That's a lot of typing to implement echo in perl.

<comment><USER6> Would you rather she golfed it? ;)</comment></comment>


Family outraged as 12-year-old Sikh boy arrested over alleged bomb threat - <AUTHOR> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/12/18/another-clock-kid-family-outraged-as-12-year-old-sikh-boy-arrested-over-alleged-bomb-threat-at-tex-school/ <comment><USER2> If I was this kid, the last thing I'd want is to be associated with Clock Boy. That guy was an attention seeker who was willing to do some really crazy shit. This kid on the other hand was probably just making a stupid joke in class.</comment>


Top 10 Programming Languages for 2014 - <AUTHOR> http://www.slideshare.net/lyndadotcom/top-10-programming-languages-to-know-in-2014?utm_campaign=post-Web&utm_content=2014-01-07-11-09-26&utm_medium=viral&utm_source=facebook Lynda.com ranks top 10 languages to know for 2014. <comment><USER2> I'd venture to guess this presentation wasn't written by a very technical person. ASP.NET is now considered a "programming language", and JavaScript is a "close, interpreted relative" of Java. I don't think so.

</comment><comment><USER3> I think this is a list of languages to know due to popularity.

As far as languages to learn, I think Go, Python, and JavaScript should lead the pack.

</comment><comment><USER4> Meh. This is not "ahead of the curve" but just the mainstream, maybe a little behind.</comment>


Data Warehousing 101 - <AUTHOR> http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/452307/f691b8557f05ab8e/ <comment><USER2> If you are interested in Data Warehousing, you should read Ralph Kimball's "The Data Warehouse Toolkit": [http://www.amazon.com/Data-Warehouse-Toolkit- Complete-Dimens...](http://www.amazon.com/Data-Warehouse-Toolkit-Complete- Dimensional/dp/0471200247)

When I started learning about BI (Business Intelligence), a few members of the Pentaho community advised me to read this book. I'm glad I did. Kimball is one of the "fathers" of data warehousing, and his book had a lot of great insights for dimensional modeling. It helped me avoid many design mistakes while building my DWH, and gave me insight I might have taken years to discover.

It's a "theoretical" book, in the sense that it does not focus on any specific technology; it's also a "practical book", because he uses real-world scenarios (inventory management, e-commerce, CRM...) to demonstrate the various dimensional modeling techniques. I also liked the part about BI project management and encouraging BI in a company (= how to engage users and how to "sell" a BI project to management).

He also has a newsletter with many DWH design tips (archives here: <http://www.kimballgroup.com/html/07dt.html> ).

</comment><comment><USER3> Oldies but goodies

<http://philip.greenspun.com/wtr/data-warehousing.html>

(data warehousing for cavemen)

<comment><USER4> Great link I found it very readable, hope the guy does more. I intend to buy the book he recommends at the bottom as well.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Shopify is pondering open-sourcing our internal tool called Tiller. It runs all the reporting for our considerable data warehouse efforts, yet it's lightweight and super fast to get running.

Watch this space.

<comment><USER6> I'd be very interested in this as well...please submit to HN if this becomes a reality!

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> >If you're building an archive, your only requirements are to minimize storage cost and to make sure the archive can keep up with the generation of data.

And in some of the cases he mentions be really. _really_ certain you don't lose data, since some of the laws impose criminal penalties on data loss, and not necessarily even on the most responsible parties (legislatures have been getting increasingly psychotic this way).

</comment><comment><USER8> The last stage of enterprise integration with the DW is through Data Marts, which are organized into Dimensions and Facts, and allow for dynamic interfaces for business users to mine their data. My current project is using Informatica CDC (Change Data Capture) to read multiple source databases through their logs and aggregate in real-time. Its really incredible and enables any level of intricate reporting requirements.

<comment><USER9> The article talks about Informatica as an ETL tool provider... I wouldn't agree it's the "last stage" either, ETL is critical to any (E)DW.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> This isn't a good article about data warehousing 101. I've been working in data warehousing since 2004. The core thing in DW is DWH data model because it's actually abstraction layer than converts raw transactional data into meaningful, consistent, correct and persistent representation of an organization's activity. Tools (including mentioned in the article) are just means to achieve that goal.

</comment><comment><USER11> Hive is a really slick DW tool built on top of Hadoop. It has a SQL-like language and supports typical DW techniques like table partitioning, key clustering, etc.

</comment><comment><USER12> As a data warehouse newbie, this was an excellent introduction. I've heard a few of the names mentioned, but there are lots of new faces to explore.

</comment><comment><USER13> I'd like to learn more about this. can anybody recommend some cool projects (open source, or even just ideas) for me to explore?

</comment><comment><USER14> This article seems a little out of date. It's missing most of the things I have looked at over the past year. E.g. Riak, MongoDB, Redis and so on.

</comment><comment><USER15> Can't mention MapReduce without Oracle Coherence (nee Tangosol)

<comment><USER16> Really? I've mentioned MapReduce for years without mentioning Coherence or Tangosol.

Or was I missing a joke?

<comment><USER15> Presumably you weren't enumerating available tools for it in the context of datawarehousing?

Because if you were, you made an omission.</comment></comment></comment>


Blue oceans for banks - <AUTHOR> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MCK1_mA22b5XPwoN0cGTYTBiVx0dGaF1c8DwnbhGRvs/edit?usp=sharing <comment><USER2> The very smart, very shrewd, hard-working folks at Simple tried building a new kind of bank... and found out that the business of banking is FAR more complicated than it seems. Ultimately, Simple decided it would be best to sell to a giant established bank, BBVA (USD 800 billion in assets):

[https://www.simple.com/company/the-next- chapter](https://www.simple.com/company/the-next-chapter)

The OP is a short ambitious document written by two guys who think they can do better. They think they can build a new kind of "bank for tourists." So far, they have a landing page and a mobile app: [https://www.wrinq.com/](https://www.wrinq.com/) ...They will need a lot of luck.

<comment><USER3> The paper contains a lot of bullshit and I don't see any new idea in it.

Foreign transaction costs are not "prohibitive" expensive and there are CC in the US with no foreign transaction fees. You can use transferwise or WU in the worst case (just wired a buddy who is broke US$ 300 online). Social network and payments? Use Wechat!

There are three major problems that they won't be able to solve.

1\. KYC regulations

2\. Fraud. The financial industry makes it more difficult and more difficult to access your own money (e.g. require a receive text message to wire money. Good luck with that abroad)

3\. "in multiple currencies and fast unrestricted exchange of funds within the internal banking network"

This is not a problem as long as your stay within ONE country. Use Wechat in China, use M-Pesa in Kenya etc. It becomes a problem when you do it internationally because many countries are heavily regulated and afraid that capital leaves the country. Have you made, as an average person, international transactions with China? India? Sri Lanka? Ethiopia? Good luck buddy!

In fact, even getting cash at the ATM abroad becomes more tricky. Recently I got into the habit of just carrying cash for all my travels after I run nearly out of cash twice (Ethiopia and India). What do I carry? Euros! They did not want my dollars in Ethiopia because they were "not the latest series" (remember point 2?)

<comment><AUTHOR> The website is out of sync with our ideas. We need to update it. Apologies for any confusion caused.

If you don't see any new idea then can you at least see a concept that has been proven already by revolut. If so can you see a possibility that this concept can be taken further to include other businesses and banks? If you do can you can you imagine a scenario where ideas we suggest might be probable?

And if we are able to overcome the challenges you put forth would you say that this idea is a winner?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> We've compiled a list of questions that Banking partners,investors and startup mentors and other people have asked us in the past. If nothing else the document is a good overview of how the concept has evolved during the last couple of months. We're constantly updating the list as new questions come in. Here's the link:-

[https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cu7vl4GiQHg8Tqqt_nGj7JOT...](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cu7vl4GiQHg8Tqqt_nGj7JOTfZlT3p-pFLZv7dy02DU/)

<comment><AUTHOR> Our two part plan for corporate banking innovation:-

\- The low hanging fruits in corporate banking services ([https://docs.google.com/document/d/11SRXfuC0-L5iGlHypnviI9H5...](https://docs.google.com/document/d/11SRXfuC0-L5iGlHypnviI9H525M3ffhQ6_fxY5l7250/edit?usp=sharing))

\- A scalable banking proxy ([https://docs.google.com/document/d/11SRXfuC0-L5iGlHypnviI9H5...](https://docs.google.com/document/d/11SRXfuC0-L5iGlHypnviI9H525M3ffhQ6_fxY5l7250/edit?usp=sharing))

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I think the article is missing an important point. Why are there foreign transaction fees in the first place? Also I think that any large service is semi doomed because of the governments in each of the countries you plan to do business in. They want to protect their own banks.

<comment><USER5> You're right, however there is a possibility it will play out like Uber. I.E. Many of the states across the globe initially fought hand and tooth to protect their own taxi license systems, only to loosen up later...

<comment><USER6> The financial stability of their economies wasn't dependent on taxi firms.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Financial services are a commodity, and that is a good thing. They should face it.

</comment><comment><USER8> I don't like centralized versions of cryptocurrencies, but they provide the rails and on ramps to lower transaction costs. Ripple, Stellar and Tether are fascinating additions to the cryptocurrency and banking space

Tether providing stable value for settlement

I think people wouldn't come up with ideas like wrinq if they were aware of existing solutions to build on top of

And I say that as a consultant who has seen many potential founders scrap their idea, after I sign their NDA and they finally tell me about their supposedly original idea only for me to tell them the existing solutions

It's fine to be unoriginal but they scrap their idea.

</comment><comment><USER9> ever heard of cryptocurrencies? no banks are neeeded, and identity on blockchain will actually happen.

<comment><USER10> Cryptocurrency is the only way to circumvent the prohibitionist laws against free exchange of money. The biggest source of inefficiency in the global economy is the organized censorship of human economic activity via state intervention, and cryptocurrency directly addresses that.

<comment><USER3> I tend to agree.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> > PPI

Doesn't know anything about retail banking if you are reusing that term

</comment><comment><USER12> Yea. Came here to say what the previous commenter said. This basically sounds like Revolut.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes both Revolut and centtrip have marketed their products to only consumers (travelers) where as the concept of multicurrency accounts is very useful to business as well. Not just individuals. The customer acquisition strategy is like Revolut but the larger goal is not (Not that I can say what they have in mind,long term).

<comment><USER13> Revolut just announced business accounts. [https://business.revolut.com](https://business.revolut.com)

<comment><AUTHOR> Ha! didn't know. Any way Revolut works in partnership with barclays. There are other banks to whom the service will be valuable.

Out of curiosity by just do you mean today?

<comment><USER13> I think it was at the start of this week.

They use Barclays as their backend but is anything of that visible to their customers?

<comment><AUTHOR> It should be on bank statements and on the card. What I was trying to say though was that the fact that Barclays has a system like Revolut is a problem for other banks that don't have a system like that. So our solution is still valuable for them.

<comment><USER14> The idea of using Barclays, or any 3rd party bank, is just to get enough traction so they have their own participation method later. Also it doesn't show Barclays on the statement from my usage - it shows the end merchants details. I didn't really know it was Barclays till now.

Barclays has been known to help startups by lending them their (global) infrastructure in the UK. Another Example is Dopay where Egyptian Barclays ATMs have been lent out.

The Bank of England is moving towards allowing non banks to participate in the payments system by 2020, its supposedly blockchain secured so it goes a notch above what a sole bank/firm could do. Revolut could theoretically switch from Barclays then.

<comment><AUTHOR> You misunderstand me....

You can think of revolut as a front end for barclays client pool account. This is a very simplistic explanation but what I'm trying to emphasize here is that the money revolut manages is effectively with Barclays.

So the idea of having Barclays is not to get traction or to have their own participation method later but to have the muscle of a bank that can handle large scale international payments.

There are other big banks who don't have something like revolut. So our solution can be a good proposition for them (Not saying that we don't have ideas for any new features. We do, but we've been caught off guard by the new announcement. It'll take a few more days to make it's way to the pitch)

>"Barclays has been known to help startups by lending them their (global) infrastructure in the UK"

Yes, but why? Barclays profits with every customer that revolut brings/ will bring. Other banks would want to profit in a similar way.

I didn't know about BOE but I don't think that switching banking partners after about 5 years of operation is going to be that easy... Not sure could be wrong.

<comment><USER14> > Yes, but why? Barclays profits with every customer that revolut brings/ will > bring. Other banks would want to profit in a similar way.

Actually they hope the startup does well so they can buy them later. Revolut's cost of acquiring a user is far less than Barclays (<£10 vs £300+).

Barclay's deal isn't free, they take equity in exchange for letting startups using their infrastructure, it's not that expensive considering what they give though.

I think I know what you're getting at, at replacing the Correspondent bank system. There's another one, Transferwise, that seems to be getting transaction where Banks in other countries use it internally to avoid correspondent banks (transferwise often matches transfers to avoid transfers).

The BoE's 2020 system isn't for an ordinary firm to replace a banking partner. It's to join the payment network and have an account backed by the BoE/blockchain without it being at a designated high street bank. It wont be easy to use I guess, but it would be compelling enough for a Fintech company to use it.

I can see alot of value with the service you're describing, I don't think the level of value would be high out of countries which have high legislative requirements/forex controls. I had a similar idea a few years ago and my base assumptions were incorrect regarding people's needs for my service.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the great explanation about acquisition costs. I think we can use it :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Since they mention airlines: Norwegian (the airline) started it's own bank:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_Norwegian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_Norwegian)

<comment><USER3> This has very likely tax reasons.

Many major companies have their own banks and even insurances. An insurance is an easily available tax shelter.

<comment><USER16> I'm sure there's tax benefits but wouldn't it also reduce fees and increase flexibility due to founding company's control of bank?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Sounds like markets succeed by creating monopolies... like cable providers...

</comment><comment><USER14> Sounds a lot like Revolut.

</comment><comment><USER18> There ain't no hubris like FinTech startup hubris.

<comment><USER19> Maybe so, but please don't post dismissive swipes to HN. It degrades conversation quality and encourages the habit of rejecting new work or new ideas.

It's true that most new work and new ideas won't amount to anything. But those that will, almost never look like they will when they're incipient. So if we don't want to trample on new things of great potential value, we have to adjust our response to _all_ new things, including the ones that seem lame. It takes a certain discipline to practice that suspension of judgment, and we're hoping to cultivate that quality here.

<comment><USER18> Fair point dang.

OK: To expand. FinTech startups seem particularly prone to some form of the "the bits of a business I can observe from the outside are obviously shit, so all I have to do is re-create better versions of those & the customers will flock to me in droves & I can take over the world" fallacy.

Be as positive as you like, but any proposal that doesn't at least nod to the wider issues is going to make me instantly suspicious that the founders don't actually understand the banking system as is, or the reasons why it's structured that way.

Here's a small list of issues that I'd like to see covered in at least some fashion in a FinTech proposal, but are often glossed over or completely omitted. I'm sure others could think of more.

* Banking is heavily regulated whilst at the same time being the target of some of the most persistent and talented fraudsters on the planet. (Paypal burnt through, what, a $billion or so in fraud whilst trying to establish themselves?) You want to be a global banking solution? You'd better have a damn good idea how you're going to deal with fraud.

* Did I mention that banking is _heavily_ regulated? Your product brief had better demonstrate how you fit within the existing regulations. Failure to understand this will be terminal for your company (Where by terminal I mean: the execs risk going to prison and / or large fines. The SEC does not mess about.) Move fast and break things is not a valid strategy when ordinary people's money is at stake.

* US FinTech startups are particularly prone to thinking that the rest of the world has a banking system as broken as the US one. Nothing wrong with trying to fix the US system but if you say you want a billion customers? You're going to have to take a decent chunk out of the world's population, which in many cases already has a perfectly decent banking system: Fast same day payments, very low fee international transfers, no-load payments in foreign countries, the works. Don't think that the rest of the world works like the US.

* Every transaction is two sided - banks are middlemen - so your wonderful product had better appeal to both sides if it's going to be successful. It's pretty much doomed to fail if it only benefits one party in a transaction. If your plan is full of details about how wonderful your product is for people making purchases but very light on anything that would appeal to vendors (or vice versa) then I'm going to think that you don't understand what makes payment systems successful.

* Banking is as much about reputation and credit management as it is about the boring details of money transfer. What allows me to buy things at a distance without cash is that my bank stands behind me and tells the vendor that my credit is good. If your bank is going to do that for me, then _they_ have to have the standing to do that with the vendors I wish to purchase from. Can your FinTech payment system product do this? If not, it's going to fail.

etc etc.</comment></comment></comment>


NSA goes on 60 Minutes: the definitive facts behind CBS's flawed report - <AUTHOR> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/16/nsa-surveillance-60-minutes-cbs-facts <comment><USER2> > The lack of specificity made cybersecurity expert Robert David Graham > dubious that the plot NSA claimed to discover matched the one it described > on TV. "All they are doing is repeating what Wikipedia says about BIOS," > Graham blogged, "acting as techie talk layered onto the discussion to make > it believable, much like how Star Trek episodes talk about warp cores and > Jeffries Tubes."

A nice summery of how to read NSA PR.

</comment><comment><USER3> I think the recent history of 60 Minutes might be what it looks like when the government starts calling in its favors.

<comment><USER4> Nah, just basic incompetence and lack of journalistic integrity, and it ain't recent. Remember "Unintended Acceleration" from the 80ies? Complete and utter BS, yet they not just ran with it, but _stuck_ with it after the BS was "exposed" (in quotes because it was obvious beforehand).

(Unintended Acceleration was the claim in the 80ies that Audis, when in reverse, would accelerate when the driver was stepping on the brake pedal without touching the gas pedal. Mechanically completely impossible and never actually happened. [http://www.manhattan- institute.org/html/cjm_18.htm](http://www.manhattan- institute.org/html/cjm_18.htm))

<comment><USER3> There has to be a better explanation of why Dan Rather was fired and Lara Logan just got a promotion. Now, as far as incompetence, I have a question of whether I'm putting the cart before the horse, particularly whether the NSA/Bezos/etc. _used_ 60min because they knew they could get their message out predictably, because CBS News is a dead horse.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I have no idea how accurate the 60 Minutes story was, but this article is woefully unconvincing. Calling your rebuttal "the definitive facts" is childish.

My favorite line is: "There are as many red flags surrounding the BIOS Plot as there are in all of China." Who writes this?

</comment><comment><USER6> I am not surprised by the lack of comments given how badly written this article is. I can only imagine the upvotes are in sympathy with the title.

<comment><USER7> I didn't find the article poorly written on an absolute scale, at least the first couple of sections (I haven't finished reading the whole thing). Are there specific sentences or paragraphs that bother you?

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Pundits said the Bezos interview with the Prime Air gimmick ruined CBS credibility.

Now we have this to cement their new reputation as "PRNewsWire.tv"</comment>


What do you think of my new review platform for staffing agencies? - <AUTHOR> http://www.recruitsy.com <comment><AUTHOR> Check out [https://www.recruitsy.com](https://www.recruitsy.com)

Just launched to allow candidates and employers to rate their experiences working with recruiters and staffing agencies.

Every review published will contributes 20 meals to #FightChildHunger in the US through 4/15/19</comment>


Node.js-Based Cross-Platform Malware - <AUTHOR> http://thenewstack.io/welcome-age-node-js-based-multi-platform-malware/ <comment><USER2> The article is patently misleading.

Node.js doesn't have some magical ability to break out of the browser's sandbox.

For the trojan to work, the payload still needs to be downloaded and executed on the user's machine.

The fact that it's cross-platform is just a nicety of the platform. The same can be said of most VM based languages.

Remove the lowbrow hyperbole and it's not a bad writeup. Otherwise, 2/10.</comment>


Do any Open Source Licences require source history? - <AUTHOR> https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2020/08/do-any-open-source-licences-require-source-history/ <comment><USER2> Layman here, but this seems pretty easy to answer for GPL at least because it defines [1] what "source code" means (with a rather brilliant definition, I might add):

> The "source code" for a work means the preferred form of the work for making > modifications to it.

I expect it would be tough to argue that the preferred form of a work to modify is its history rather than its present form.

[1] [https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.txt](https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.txt)

<comment><USER3> My preferred form of a work would be the a VCS repository with the complete history (assuming it is a familiar VCS like git. If you are using some obscure VCS that I can't get to work, I'd settle for a simple source dump).

Almost every project I have worked on has went out of its way to maintain a good history. Wheather it is by cleaning up commits before merging into a main branch; making sure history gets copied when a reorganization moves a significant amount of files to a different repository, or making sure history gets copied when an entire repository moves over to a new VCS.

<comment><USER2> The quote was that the source code is the _form of the program_ you would prefer to _modify_ , not the _information_ you would prefer to _have available_. These are different things.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> This reminds me of a post by Steve Klabnik: [https://steveklabnik.com/writing/what-comes-after-open- sourc...](https://steveklabnik.com/writing/what-comes-after-open-source)

In that he argues that open source is less about publishing the code and more about a culture of developing in the open, with a public source repository and public issue tracker.

</comment><comment><USER5> I mean, each time you distribute the software you are bound to the license terms for that version, so if you use the same license through time, you have to give that much history.

Beyond that, it clearly becomes very murky, especially when it comes to git. Is squashing some commits suddenly against the license? Do I have to commit every time I type a character? There is no obvious smallest unit except "the commit the developer decides on", which could then be everything since the last release, resulting in the status quo.

I guess there could be a license where if you changed to that license, it required the history, but it would seem a bit pointless, as inherently at that point the person choosing the license could just choose a different one.

<comment><USER6> Do similar questions come up even for the current snapshot? Are you required to provide comments? Meaningful type and variable names?

<comment><USER7> Not a lawyer, but I did work for a short period for a company that was distributing a modified linux kernel and therefore had to release the source. In my time there, there were a lot of discussions (some involving lawyers) about whether (and how) we could reasonably obfuscate the source before releasing it. Not sure how those conversations ended since I left before they were done, but it seems it's not clear cut at this point.

<comment><USER8> I struggle to imagine how this definition in the Linux kernel's license:

> The source code for a work means the preferred form of the work for making > modifications to it.

can be seen as "not clear cut" with regard to whether obfuscated source code counts.

It plainly rules out obfuscation.

(Unless you genuinely prefer editing the obfuscated version. Which you provably don't if obfuscation is done just for release.)

<comment><USER7> What is preventing a company from hiring a developer or two for very cheap to "work" on the obfuscated code, but not do any real work (or better yet, just bundle it into an existing job description of a qa member or a dev on some other team or something)? How would you prove in court that the devs "working" on the obfuscated version weren't the ones doing the work? It brings into question which version is actually preferred over the other, and how do you answer that? Based off number of commits or changes on the branches? Obfuscated version could easily be gamed to have more commits, and given that it's obfuscated, it might have even more individual changes just by default. I imagine there are some companies that think these questions are worth pondering.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> What would the definition of "source history" be? The git database? If I do a rebase would I be violating the license? After all, I am collapsing the history, getting rid of failed ideas no one else needs to see.

</comment><comment><USER10> My basic understanding is that license (usually?) applies to just the code.

There is no concept of "history" or "snapshot" pertaining to the code itself. Such constructs only exist with regard to the process of development, about which the code license does not care. Otherwise, every keystroke must be recorded and published to ensure compliance, at which point, the license is ridiculous and unenforceable.

</comment><comment><USER11> I am not aware of any common "open source" license that requires distribution of comprehensive source code revision history or version-control information.

A number of licenses, including the GPLs, require those who make changes to licensed software to note that changes have been made when distributing their changes to others. A few also require distribution of changed versions in the form of the original or "official" distribution plus patch files. Have a look at the Artistic Licenses from the Perl community. And note that "permissive" (non-copyleft) licenses don't require sharing source at all.

Nonetheless, some licenses assume that development-related information will be available, required or not, for the purpose of other license provisions. For example, Apache 2.0 determines which patents get licensed based on who is contributing code that implicates a patent, alone or in combination with the state of the project prior to their offer of a new contribution

Even with comprehensive revision-control and licensing information, it's not always practical to determine whether a patent is covered. The Apache Foundation systematically compiles and archives contribution-related information, by institutional policy. Other users of Apache's license, like startups, don't necessarily follow suit. Ditto with other licenses following Apache's approach to patent scope, which is now quite common in "enterprise"-oriented license terms.

Even my own, very strong copyleft Parity license ([https://paritylicense.com](https://paritylicense.com)), which comes the closest to requiring "development in the open" of any terms I've seen, does not require unbroken development history or distribution of history data in any particular form, like a Git repository or an unbroken chain of patch files. My first thought is that requiring open work process would be difficult, especially without tying the requirement to specific tools or platforms---GitHub, Git---that will surely face obsolescence in time. But my second thought is that licenses have already adequately solved an analogous problem with success. A license could require that source code changes be made available not only in the preferred form for making further changes, but also in the preferred form for analysis of prior changes already made, for code copyright provenance verification, regression testing, incorporation into the "official version", development metrics calculation, or the like.

I'm not sure I see a concrete use case requiring those kinds of terms. Nice to have, sure. But in what circumstance essential?

</comment><comment><USER12> Assuming it's still the case, Red Hat used to release all their RHEL-kernel specific changes as individual patches, but apparently it made this too easy for Oracle to copy and cherry-pick in the ones they wanted, so the Red Hat released source code became a big giant squished patch.

They felt it still complied with GPLv2, and TBH, I don't think that it doesn't. Not necessarily in the spirit of the license, but a necessary solution against Oracle in their minds.

GPLv3 defines it differently, but I doubt you could convince anyone of this in court. I think getting the source in any form would be a good enough start for most of the companies flaunting the GPL.

</comment><comment><USER13> > My question to you, gentle reader – are there any licences which compel the > distribution or publication of the development history?

No, other than that any given project has to give proper credit to code used from other projects / copyright holders.

My understanding of why this is so is the following: A free software or open source software licence is based on copyright law. As such, it restricts what users can do with the source code, but it never restricts what the copyright holders can do with the software (assuming all the copyright holders collectively agree).

A user can never (theoretically at least, there may be a few edge cases) sue the copyright holders for anything, because there's no warranty. No warranty on the code source history (or anything else). So code source history is always optional.

<comment><USER14> This is exactly what most people in this thread are missing. The copyright holder, i.e the creator of the code is never obligated to do anything by the licence he chooses to release with. The licence applied to users of the copyright owners work.

<comment><USER15> That's not true though. Open source licenses (as defined by the OSI) impose specific obligations upon me as creator - to distribute the source code for "no more than a reasonable reproduction cost" to users, allow users to modify it, and to redistribute it for free if it is bundled with other software, and not to discriminate against persons, groups or fields of endeavour in who can use it.

<comment><USER13> No, open source licenses impose no obligations on the copyright holder for their own code. For example, if the copyright holder releases their own code under a GPL licence, no law prevents them from also releasing a modified or unmodified version under a proprietary licence. This is allowed by law, but the proprietary version doesn't of course negate the rights already given to those who received the GPL version.

If a project has many contributors (copyright holders), they would all have to agree to a license change, so in practice something like the Linux kernel is very unlikely to ever change to a proprietary licence, but it's theoretically possible.

The copyright holders are never bound by the terms of a user licence.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Isn't the requirement to disclose source with a system so that you can make changes (bug fixes and such) without being locked into a vendor? Current source offers that. Other than that licenses typically stipulate that there are no warranties and no support. I see source history more as a support tool (to understand design decisions) than as the "absolute" ability to fix a bug. (This is not and answer to the question, I realize.)

</comment><comment><USER17> Assuming a GPLv3-licensed project, would one be in his rights to ask for a previous "Corresponding Source" because he uses a previously released "object code"?

<comment><USER18> At least in the company I work for, the understanding is that we have to make available the source code that corresponds to0 the binaries that we are distributing.

So, if I am distributing Linux 2.0.12, I have to also make the source code of Linux 2.0.12 available to my customers. The sources for Linux 5 (or Linux 2.0.13) are not useful.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> With the advent of reproducible builds, it can also be useful to have a specification of the build environment needed to reproduce a binary from a given source code snapshot.

</comment><comment><USER20> AFAIK, postfix has no history. Only releases.

<comment> yjftsjthsd-h Maybe? [https://github.com/vdukhovni/postfix/commits/master](https://github.com/vdukhovni/postfix/commits/master)

I wouldn't call them releases, but they aren't normal commits...

<comment><USER20> I think it's just putting releases in a git repo

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> The MIT license is so simple, just add/delete to make your own. My bespoke license is free and open source for the user, but restricts them using it for or on behalf of another person.

<comment><USER22> That sounds like it's not open source. Also, license proliferation is a bad thing and you really shouldn't encourage it.

<comment><USER15> Can I ask why it is that the "foss community" is so hell bent on restricting the freedom of creators to call their software open source if the source is open, or choose licenses that might help them actually support themselves financially? As far as I can tell the "freedom" pushed by Foss evangelists only goes one way - to benefit often corporate consumers. I genuinely don't think I've ever seen a "community" that is so intent on policing language and action than that which exists around Foss.

<comment><USER18> I think the FOSS community cares a lot about the freedom of the end-user, not so much about the freedom of original creators. That is, the freedom of everyone to become a creator, not the freedom of one particular creator to control their creation or profit from it in some way. This applies both to the GPL camp, which cares about the end-user of the binary; as well as the BSD/MIT camp, which cares about the end-user of the source.

Hence, their dislike of any kind of licenses which impose restrictions on consumers of the code/binary.

I'm not saying I agree, just presenting what I believe is the thinking behind this kind of policing.

<comment><USER15> I think my issue is that a nobleish idea that supported the freedom of everyone to be a creator has morphed into something (an ideology, a secular religion) that demands that creators not be able to make a living off their creation even if (or especially if) they are providing tooling for corporations that give nothing, or at least very little proportionally, back.

<comment><USER22> If you dual-license your work under the AGPL and a paid non-copyleft license, then your product will be 100% FOSS, and you'll still be able to make a living from it instead of the Amazons of the world selling your product and giving nothing back.

<comment><USER18> That's what Mongo thought as well, and it turned out not to be true in their case (well, s/make a living/turn the profit your investors expect/g).</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Static website on VPS Linux server - <AUTHOR> Is it possible to put a simple HTML static website on VPS Linux server (without any environment or Panel, as I don't have necessary skills to manage it)? Under a domain name of course. Thank you for advice. <comment><USER2> Simple answer: Yes, possible.

Longer answer: The VPS needs to be running a web-server if you expect others to be able to retrieve the static website. And with "no environment or Panel" and lacking the "necessary skills to manage it" unless the VPS came already packaged with an operational web-server, you'll likely be unable to add one without "environment" or "Panel" or "skills".</comment>


Shaker Design Philosophy - Necessary, Useful, Beautiful - <AUTHOR> http://bokardo.com/archives/the-shaker-design-philosophy/ <comment><USER2> The ideas embodied in Shaker design are (in my opinion) almost always correct design rules (the almost being that, as always, you should break your design rules when they interfere with your goal), but aesthetics aside, there is a very relevant message here: in the startup phase, the focus should always be on creating what is necessary, useful, and beautiful. Useful explains itself (though it's often forgotten); necessary is the real Occam's razor of the group, and perhaps the important one for start-ups (i.e. during the initial angel phase, get your critical functionality implemented--a VC won't be impressed by great features if the core functionality doesn't work); beautiful is tricky. It's aesthetic. When it comes to code, though, beauty is usually directly related to maintainability and extensibility. Sure, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and what I think is atrocious C++ might be beautiful to you, and my beautiful Lisp might make you cry; what matters is that the code is beautiful to the person who has to interact with it.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Make sure to check out the link to the "5 principles to design by" --- another great post.</comment>


Fasting and Covid-19 - <AUTHOR> https://www.zerofasting.com/fasting-and-covid-19/ <comment><USER2> Sounds like a trustworthy site.

<comment><USER3> Title makes it seem like a website saying fasting helps you fight off CoVID-19. But at least the text content doesn't say anything like that (there are videos I haven't watched). This is about what to do if you're already practicing intermittent fasting.

<comment><USER4> The video recommends against fasts longer than two days during the pandemic, based on the rise in cortisol, which is associated with compromised immunity. Dr. Attia is clear that this recommendation is just on that general principle and not specific knowledge.</comment></comment></comment>


Scientists have captured photos of deer gnawing on human skeletal remains - <AUTHOR> http://gizmodo.com/a-deer-was-caught-gnawing-on-human-remains-and-the-end-1794963595 <comment><USER2> Pretty much a dupe of [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14277005](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14277005).</comment>