Am I charging too high for design? - <AUTHOR>

Hi. I am a freelance web designer. My portfolio is at www.madebyargon.com
I generally price my designs at $3000-$3500 for a full website redesign/ user interface design. This usually comes to around $40-50/hour which I think is fair.
I have noticed however that a lot of prospective clients, who absolutely love my design, find my prices to be too high.
Am I charging too high? How much would you pay for a redesign of your website or webapp? <comment><USER2> I think the problem comes down to the kind of market and audience you're attracting. As a freelancer you really have to position yourself for the right market that corresponds to your rates. HN is a very designer/entrepreneur driven community. my guess is that people on HN would want to spend less money on design and more on development.

I would update your website itself also. To me your website doesn't speak the same level of sophistication as the piece you see in the portfolio. Your website represents your self and your identify as a designer. Dress it up a bit, this is your best chance to really showcase your design sense and originality. As many other people mentioned before, package your product well.

As a full time freelancer, you should spend at least 30-50% of your time marketing yourself and networking with potential clients. Building a solid customer database and having these customers refer you to perspective employees are most important if you want to have a consistent flow of work.

Are you really putting your work out there? Here's a quick checklist to get the ball rolling.

1\. Do you regularly update your portfolio with new pieces? 2\. Do you have a profile on all the designer networks? (behance.net is a good one to start with). 3\. Do you keep in touch with your past clients and make sure they're happy with your work? 4\. Have you considered starting a blog that would attract potential customers with valuable information about graphic design and design theories that they could use for their own projects?

I think with the quality and level of work in your portfolio you certainly deserve to get that rate. I've worked with other designers who charge twice as much as you do, but then again, they all presented their web presence really well. When a customer tells you your rates are too expensive, it doesn't necessarily mean that they don't have the budget. It could mean that they don't perceive your value at the price you quoted. As long as you can convince your clients that you're worth every penny and MORE, you should have no problem getting the rates you want.

</comment><comment><USER3> The sites look really good - I think they warrant $40-50/hr.

You may want to consider offering multiple "packages" if you don't want to lose those clients. $3000/$40 = 75 hours... if you offer a package that's 25 or 50 hours, you can lower the price and maybe keep the client.

That said,

1\. You have to set expectations clearly - if they're not paying for a $3k website, they're not getting a $3k website. (most people will still expect that quality even if they're paying less, for whatever reason) Be clear with them about what they're getting.

2\. If you have enough work at that price, don't bother. My guess from you posting this is that you want their business.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, I'm not getting enough work, and 9 out of 10 people who contact me go elsewhere after hearing my prices, even though all of them love my designs.

The problem with the whole "packages" is that I don't do that. Most people who come to me just want a new design and aren't concern about whether it takes me 10 hours or a hundred. Like-wise I quote a fixed price and not an hourly rate, most being in the $3000-$3500 range.

<comment><USER4> So 9/10 people come to you, most of the time you quote them $3000/$3500 irrespective of their budget and they walk away?

If you don't want to call them "packages", that's fine -- but if you're giving fixed-price quotes of $3000-$3500 irrespective of the client when all they really want/need is 10-20 hours of your time you might be doing yourself a disservice.

By the same token, if your experience tells you that you really need the 75 hours to do a good job for a client, then don't sell yourself short.

Maybe you need to ask your clients to clarify what their expectations are in terms of hours and incorporate that into your quotes?

Maybe _you_ need to clarify that you can be flexible with the overall price in exchange for less time (e.g. maybe do fewer revisions, simpler designs, whatever -- I'm not really a design expert).

Or maybe it's time to start billing by the hour? :)

Of course, you may hold yourself to a high standard and feel that you require that much time to do a "good job" by your clients. That's fine too, but understand that's a business decision that will leave you with fewer clients.

Just my two cents, but hope it provides some food for thought.

<comment><AUTHOR> Once a client gives me some specifics regarding their projects, I can estimate how much time it'll take, and I quote a fixed price based on that. In most cases my estimate is either spot on, or off by at most an hour.

The problem with offering a "lower price product" is that none of the clients want them, although it is possible that I simply haven't marketed it properly.

<comment><USER4> So they don't want a lower priced product, but they don't want the higher priced product either?

Confused now. :)

Is it the price or the outcome you're talking about here? I'm not talking about offering a "lower price product", I'm talking about offering your clients a little flexibility to suit their budget (while covering your own bases in terms of time spent on any project).

In any case, there's nothing to stop you from communicating that you're willing to discuss options on the quote if they're willing to make concessions wrt your time/revisions.

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding. Good luck all the same!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> 9 out of 10 people are just window shopping and will contact several other web designers with the same brief.

Additionally, you have the problem of people expecting you to be cheap because one of the few things your site tells me about you (other than showing me some sound enough finished work) is that you're based in a low income country and know how to use the right tools.

People that want a cheap offshore guy that knows their way around Photoshop go straight to the enquiry form. People that are prepared to pay more care about whether your design goes through multiple iterations before the final version, whether you'll work with them to make it reflect their company image, whether you understand usability, whether you've worked with the same clients over a number of years etc. - they'll probably skip your site altogether in favour of the next one with more marketing fluff.

</comment><comment><USER6> It's not all prices and design skills. It's also marketing. You need to sell yourself. If you aren't getting the work then you are in the wrong markets or you aren't doing a good enough job at the sales part.

Also, there's no way that you can throw out a "general" price. The requirements of the sites and the clients are all different. Aside from the workload differences, you can double your prices for some clients and get away with it just because you get that gut feeling about it.

</comment><comment><USER7> It's a marketing thing. Startups won't pay crap because we're cheap. Socialite fashionistas working the art gallery circuit will drop big money on pretty pictures. You just need to find someone who really values what you do (which is quite good in my opinion).

</comment><comment><USER8> Assuming you are targeting the correct market for your work (which other commenters have addressed), then you need to let basic supply/demand gauge your pricing.

So the question to ask yourself is this: do you have enough work? If you have more work than you want, raise your prices until you have less work. If you have less than you want, consider lowering your prices. If you are already taking less than you feel you should, then focus directly on who you are targeting and how you are approaching them.

</comment><comment><USER9> A bit late in the day, but FWIW, here is the clickable link:

<http://www.madebyargon.com>

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> I should also add that I'm based in Dhaka, Bangladesh. Does this warrant a lower price, since I'm unable to meet with clients face-to-face?

<comment><USER10> "I should also add that I'm based in Dhaka, Bangladesh."

If you mention that upfront, expect a certain set of people to expect you to do the work for 100$ (or less!). Blame outsourcing. ( I live in India fwiw). I make no claim that this is what is happening (I am a developer and know nothing about design and the rates thereof) Just something to be aware of. Good Luck.

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Since price doesn't seem to be a problem, I could use some more in-depth suggestions.

I submitted a new AskHN thread to get some ideas. Please comment if you have anything to add.

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2287812>

</comment><comment><USER11> No, your not. I won't even look at your portfolio.

I used to work in creative teams, and I've worked with colleagues who charge £500 a day in the UK. A lot of the value comes in not only the design, but how he packages it up.

(Just looked at your portfolio. I'd say your prices are good).

<comment><AUTHOR> If my prices aren't too high, then what am I doing wrong?

<comment><USER12> It's not that you're actively doing anything wrong it's merely the market. People want everything for nothing. I've seen people shop at Wal-Mart for $1 items only to return them because they weren't the quality they were expecting. Society, blah.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> You do superb work. Do not be ashamed of your skill. Tell them to fuckoff and forward the mail to some cheaper junior person you know. Adapt to keep a comfortable income, but, great work.

</comment><comment><USER14> Holy crap. 3000$ for a redesign could pay me a penthouse here at Buenos Aires.</comment>


Trump's Campaign Is Launching a Nightly News Show on Facebook - <AUTHOR> https://www.wired.com/2016/10/trumps-campaign-launching-nightly-news-show-facebook/ <comment><AUTHOR> Regardless of your political persuasion this might be a blueprint for how all future TV networks launch.

If you're using Facebook for distribution do you really need to spend the money to get on a satellite and have to deal with the cable companies?

<comment><USER2> "TV network" is a bit of an anachronism then.

I'm hopeful that 24 infotainment broadcasts will die with cable bundles. People aren't going to quietly pay $1 a month for 5 of them anymore if there is no bundle hiding them.

(There's stories talking about CNN making an extra $100 million because of the elections this year; With ~100 million subscribers paying $0.60, they make that revenue every couple months, losing the bundles will be a big deal)</comment></comment>


My programming journey - <AUTHOR> http://ryanwaggoner.com/2010/10/my-programming-journey/ <comment><USER2> Though it may be unpopular, I agree wholeheartedly. Things simply get done with PHP and the environment doesn't get in the way like it does with any other framework/environment I used. Besides, it is possible to write good, fast and maintainable code with PHP, and when people do they can do so elegantly.

And you know what, I even prefer the bad script kiddie PHP code to, say, a 20k line classpath disaster in Java. Because this being PHP it's trivial to fix or rewrite stuff.</comment>


My brief, terrible experience as a Facebook advertiser - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@wnunderwood/my-brief-terrible-experience-as-a-facebook-advertiser-8f1a88955b52 <comment><USER2> I got banned from using FB's ad service a long time ago. I was linking to sales pages for my own books for a few years.

One day I got an email saying "You are no longer allowed to use this and the decision is final. You may not contest it" or something like that. I responded asking for more information and they wouldn't give me any.

So, here I am, still trying to find a viable alternative. My novels and poetry books don't really sell since then, which is mostly my fault for being lazy, but I was getting rid of a few here and there before.

Sucked that they had such horrible customer service tho.</comment>


While Away the Hours with a Free H.P. Lovecraft Call of Cthulhu Coloring Book - <AUTHOR> http://www.openculture.com/2020/03/while-away-the-hours-with-a-free-h-p-lovecraft-call-of-cthulhu-coloring-book.html <comment><AUTHOR> TL;DR: In response to world wide #StayAtHome, _Chaosium_ presented[0] FREE coloring book in form of _downloadable PDF_ [1] & launched _Call of Cthuhu Coloring Competition_ [2]

P.S.: H.P. Lovecraft's Classic Horror Stories Free Online: Download Audio Books, eBooks & More (2014)[3]

[0] [https://www.chaosium.com/blogstaying-in-color-in-at-home- wit...](https://www.chaosium.com/blogstaying-in-color-in-at-home-with- chaosium-weve-made-call-of-cthulhu-the-coloring-book-a-free-download/)

[1] [https://www.chaosium.com/content/FreePDFs/Cthuliana/CHA5116%...](https://www.chaosium.com/content/FreePDFs/Cthuliana/CHA5116%20-%20Call%20of%20Cthulhu%20Coloring%20Book.pdf)

[2] [https://www.chaosium.com/blogtake-part-in-our-call-of- cthulh...](https://www.chaosium.com/blogtake-part-in-our-call-of-cthulhu- coloring-contest-just-remember-to-stay-within-the-noneuclidean-lines)

[3] [http://www.openculture.com/2014/10/h-p-lovecrafts-classic- ho...](http://www.openculture.com/2014/10/h-p-lovecrafts-classic-horror- stories-free-online.html)</comment>


The poetry of Steve Ballmer - <AUTHOR> http://www.asymco.com/2012/07/10/the-poetry-of-steve-ballmer/ <comment><USER2> "And if you're very lucky, I may even read you some of my poetry first."</comment>


On "Geek" Versus "Nerd" - <AUTHOR> http://slackprop.wordpress.com/2013/06/03/on-geek-versus-nerd/

<comment><USER2> Geeks bite the heads off chickens.

To me it is like the difference between the words midget and dwarf.

</comment><comment><USER3> The definition I've found most useful is geeks are obsessed with creating something and nerds are obsessed with consuming something.

</comment><comment><USER4> Here is a more detailed reference:

<http://brunching.com/images/geekchartbig.gif>

</comment><comment><USER5> This discussion is just bike shedding. Just be, man.

</comment><comment><USER6> Relevant xkcd: <http://xkcd.com/747/></comment>


Otto: Friendly Machine Learning Assistant - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/KartikChugh/Otto <comment><USER2> Now I have to distinguish between _three_ things when I see 'Otto':

This project.

Hashicorp's dead deployment tool ([https://www.ottoproject.io](https://www.ottoproject.io))

Otto Matic by Pangea ([http://pangeasoft.net/otto/](http://pangeasoft.net/otto/))

<comment><USER3> Plus [https://ottomotors.com/](https://ottomotors.com/)

<comment><USER4> Since we've veered off SW - [https://www.ottoclothing.in/](https://www.ottoclothing.in/).

<comment><USER5> Otto Motors is SW

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Genuine question, because I'm interested in the applicability of a tool like this -- do professional ML scientists/developers have a need for visualizing their model during development, or would use such a tool? Do their models have parameters and need tuning such that visualization is a key problem?

Or is this kind of a nice to see thing for beginners, but more advanced/this- is-my-job ML professionals rarely are interacting with the data and model in this way? They're dumping tables, using numerical stats, not looking for _visual_ patterns?

Perhaps a similar kind of question as "who uses drag-and-drop SAS analysis, rather than Python"? Or, "there are no casual DNN builders" \-- anyone who is doing this kind of work will be doing it at the level that they're not needing visualization?

Clearly, SAS has enough visual-based casual users who can't program, so there's a market for it.

I am legit interested to know, thanks!

<comment><USER7> Model visualization can be useful even for experts, either as an additional sanity check or to debug surprising results.

I couldn't evaluate this Otto thing because I'm on a laptop right now and it looks like the developers assumed that everyone has a 40" screen.

Source: ML is (part of) my job.

<comment><USER8> [https://github.com/KartikChugh/Otto/issues/18#event-36052230...](https://github.com/KartikChugh/Otto/issues/18#event-3605223056)

Made some small improvements today as a quick fix; we'll still be working on better support long-term

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Interesting project. Seems like a boilerplate to jump start various experiments.

<comment><USER8> Thanks! Yep that was the hope :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Interesting! How did you construct your network builder? I've had to use a combinatoric approach or constraint solver to validate layer compatibility but hit a wall trying to generalize it

<comment><USER8> Hey, thanks for the question! I'm not sure I follow entirely, the network builder is through a library called react-sigma

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Is this the company that Uber bought then shuttered because of intellectual property theft?

<comment><USER12> Nope. That Otto ([https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Otto_(company)](https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Otto_\(company\))) was in the self-driving space. This Otto appears to be in the NLP/ML space.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: What do you ask your interns as they finish up for the summer? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER3> In case the basic questions aren't obvious:

\- What were your goals for the internship, and how do they compare to what you actually got out of it?

\- What are the top 3 things you'd change about the way our internship program works?

\- What are the top 3 things you think worked well?

\- If you could repeat the internship knowing what you know now, what would you do differently?

\- What advice would you give to company leadership (at any level)?

</comment><comment><USER4> I'd consider asking them how _they_ felt about their experience/the company/procedures/etc..

Getting fresh eyes from an intern can provide valuable insight into things you're doing right, and things that could be improved.

<comment><USER5> +1 On this, and I'd want to encourage them to provide this feedback throughout the internship as well, not just at the end. Sure, sometimes they'll have suggestions that we've considered and decided not to do, but if it's a common question we should document.

For helping the interns, I'd talk to them about what they learned, what their next career steps are, and what subjects they're most interested in. Ideally, you have a mentorship program setup already where this has already been discussed, so this may end up being very brief. But even without a mentorship program, having good discussion about how you can help the interns aside from just having an extra line of experience on the resume is healthy for both sides.

For improving the program for future interns, I'd also ask them what they wished they knew when they first started their internship. For all of the above, make sure that it's a safe environment to have honest discussion - <USER2> instance state outright that they're not going to burn bridges by pointing out process flaws or talking about working at other companies in the future.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> I mean if you are using interns as a way to find future employees, I'd check out the code they wrote for the best metric.

Most of them are probably hungry for a high paying tech job, and will tell you they want an offer / want to work with you. Even if to just get another offer for some bargaining power. It's probably worth asking them questions about how easy it was to ramp up and such if you are in a position where you can improve those systems.

Check out the code, is it well written? Modular? Documented? Did they go through the proper steps in your sprints / documentation? Ask their mentors if they asked questions when blocked, etc.

If they worked hard, had a good attitude / could get along with the team and wrote good code (remember they are new to coding most likely) - and you think they have a lot of potential than consider giving them an offer.

<comment><AUTHOR> I can do all of this outside of a one-on-one/exit interview type conversation though. We really focused on iterative feedback during their internship.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> What can we do to make our internship program more inclusive and less reliant on the preexisting privilege of our interns?

<comment><USER7> Thanks for the downvotes for literally posting a question I've asked interns in the past. Always important to remember the reflexive cultural conservatism of HN's audience.

<comment><USER8> One reason the site guidelines ask you not to complain like this about downvotes is that often, by the time the dust settles, people have given more upvotes. Then in addition to being off-topic, the complaint is misleading.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)</comment></comment></comment>


Buffalo – MVC Web Framework for Go - <AUTHOR> http://gobuffalo.io <comment><USER2> I always defer to frameworks when working on any project, large or small, so this looks really cool to me as we have been debating on breaking out some of our high volume components into microservices at work and Go is an option.

For large projects, using a framework and writing code the way the framework wants you to means that it's much easier to get new team members up to speed, meaning they contribute sooner and with less draw on other team members to teach them the nuances of your weird custom stack.

For small projects, and side projects especially, you can't/don't want to lose steam in analysis paralysis deciding on every little library and thing you want to use. Just pick up the framework that has made most of those decisions for you and focus on the business logic.

Rails nails this. Laravel is pretty good at this. Lots of others do this too (rails and laravel are where I spend my time). Sure, they might not be "exciting" but they are productive, and that, to me, is most important.

<comment><USER3> Depending on how micro your microservice is and if it really is high volume (not sure what high volume means to you) then I would recommend just stick with the standard library to start and grabbing other libs as you need. I wrote a simple internal microservice handling ~400k req/s at peak with no framework and it works great. I can see the appeal of the framework in getting something up and running really fast with one command, but that amount of time in the beginning that it saves is insignificant compared to the long term lifecycle of the project.

<comment><USER4> We know that standard library is enough But there is always need for a framework if you do the same thing over and over again. The consensus in the GO community seems to be that you create from scratch every-time the same handlers, utilities etc. And practically we have ended up with everyone having their own in-house framework. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to create the same helpers every time or not wanting to have your personal framework.

Saying that the standard library is all you need is like saying that you don't need the standard library either, Go's Keywords are all you need.

<comment><USER3>
      Saying that the standard library is all you need is
      like saying that you don't need the standard library
      either, Go's Keywords are all you need.

Not really sure what you mean by that. I didn't say the standard lib is all you need I said start with the standard lib and add other libs when and as you need rather than starting with everything in the beginning. In my experience you end up fighting the framework in the long run, but if you like them use them.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> That REPL is awesome and an actual differentiating factor.

I grew to web programming with Rails and Django, and trying out PHP (where to my knowledge nothing comparable exists, or apparently even could exist) for a few years felt like I had entered the stone ages. And that feeling did not pass.

<comment><USER6> In the PHP space I know Laravel has an "artisan tinker" command which gives you a similar REPL where you can do at least some of the things demoed on the Buffalo site. This seems to be increasingly common to have for web frameworks from my somewhat limited experience.

<comment><USER5> Indeed, artisan tinker is quite close to what Rails and Django give. The REPL is a bit awkward when compared to ipython, though, but that is probably fixable. If they'd just do it :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Go is such an easy language as it is, these kinds of frameworks just encourage amateur developers to skirt by with minimal understanding of what they're really doing. An MVC framework sounds like a great personal hacking project for fun, but I would beware of advertising anything like it for professional use.

<comment><USER8> The further problem is the resulting community. Interviewing for Go devs is going to become a pain.

<comment><USER9> > Interviewing for Go devs is going to become a pain

Might I ask why?

<comment><USER8> Wheat from chaff.

<comment><USER9> I am sorry, I still didn't get your concern. It is easy in my opinion to identify the person writing Go code. Look at their Github profile! (I am not a recruiter, so I don't know how effective that really is, but Github profile does reflect a person's contributions to FOSS and if the person is a FOSS contributors, look at their repos or their other PRs or their projects)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> That's the best mascot I think I've ever seen. Merits of the language notwithstanding, Go consistently outperforms on `d'awww` benchmarks.

</comment><comment><USER11> I think in practice most of the time, you dont need a framework for webapps in golang. A simple http handler with json / templating etc output is very simple to write. The net/http package is very powerfull, but still has a lean api.

I do use [https://github.com/urfave/negroni](https://github.com/urfave/negroni) for routing. But otherwise i just use the http package.

</comment><comment><USER12> Time to update the "Buffalo buffalo..." page on Wikipedia: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffal...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo)

<comment><USER13> buffalo from Buffalo using buffalo who are buffaloed by buffalo from Buffalo, buffalo other buffalo using buffalo from Buffalo

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Love the JQuery + Webpack defaults!

The main issue I ran into when trying to develop a web app with Go was debugging. Web apps are multi-tier systems, and Go doesn't give you stack traces when something goes wrong, which is something I don't have the patience for when there are plenty of good and mature languages to use that do have stack traces. I know a common response to this is, "just practice better system design," I'm not one of those people who believes that I need to define an API for every internal piece of code. I just want to be able to find an error quickly and move on. Does Buffalo have a solution to this? I really like it so far.

</comment><comment><USER15> I think the main point of Buffalo is using the common web app libraries that are used most. Yes it's still important to understand how it all works underneath the hood. Coming from a Rails background, Buffalo makes me really enjoy web development. I feel this is what Rails was to Ruby in a way.

</comment><comment><USER16> Sounds like Buffalo is omakase?

<comment><USER17> Explanation on "omakase"? I haven't heard that term before and Google only provides sushi restaurants nearby...

<comment><USER16> Was a reference to this post: [http://david.heinemeierhansson.com/2012/rails- is-omakase.htm...](http://david.heinemeierhansson.com/2012/rails-is- omakase.html) where Rails is described as a curated set of defaults/components/tools/options.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> It tries to install webpack globally which it can't because I'm not running it with sudo and I have it installed already anyway. I see I can skip adding webpack to the app but can I just skip the installation part?

</comment><comment><USER19> Not a mobile friendly website? Please it's 2017

<comment><USER20> That's a pretty negative attitude.

It's open source. Why don't you contribute?

[https://github.com/gobuffalo/gobuffalo](https://github.com/gobuffalo/gobuffalo)

<comment><USER19> I am requesting in my comment. But anyway its a good suggestion to contribute. Will do.</comment></comment></comment>


NASA to Announce Major Astrophysics Discovery Today - <AUTHOR> http://news.yahoo.com/nasa-announce-major-astrophysics-discovery-today-141138791.html

<comment><USER2> They already announced it. Dark Matter Possibly Found by $2 Billion Space Station Experiment: [http://www.space.com/20490-dark-matter-discovery-space- exper...](http://www.space.com/20490-dark-matter-discovery-space- experiment.html)</comment>


Smoothed Analysis: Why The Simplex Algorithm Usually Takes Polynomial Time. - <AUTHOR> http://arxiv.org/pdf/cs.DS/0111050

<comment><USER2> Looks interesting. I'll definitely put this on my to-read list. Thanks for posting.</comment>


A practical intelligence amplification hack that really works: TTS - <AUTHOR> http://www.turnkeylinux.org/blog/practical-intelligence-amplification

<comment><USER2> Thank you for this idea. For now I'll just use librivox.org

It is extra pleasant if you softly play some instrumental music, such as Ludovico Einaudi.</comment>


I should be sleeping now - <AUTHOR> http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2004/11/22/i-should-be-sleeping-now/

<comment><USER2> >1\. Sleep deprivation makes you act drunk.

It just causes similar impairment on driving tests.</comment>


Who will pay higher premiums under Obamacare? Young men - May. 14, 2013 - <AUTHOR> http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/14/news/economy/obamacare-premiums/index.html?iid=s_mpm <comment><USER2> This was inevitable. The group that pays the least, when it is folded into a larger more varied group, will pay more. There was no way this was not going to work this way.

However - how many young men who are _not insured by their employers_ , pick up medical insurance? I know I didn't. I'd imagine this is just guys who've gotten married and had a kid AND who are on the upper end of the income bracket for the uninsured.

<comment><USER3> > However - how many young men who are not insured by their employers, pick up > medical insurance?

Under the ACA, essentially all of them will be required to.

<comment><USER4> Not quite. Many people are getting their work hours reduced to less than 30 a week, a part time status exempts employers from Obamacare mandates. From "food service" workers to higher education adjunct professors.

Tax something and you'll get less of it. This most certainly includes "young" employment.

<comment><USER3> > Not quite. Many people are getting their work hours reduced to less than 30 > a week, a part time status exempts employers from Obamacare mandates.

Irrelevant to the comment this was offered in response to, which discusses the _individuals_ that will be required to get insurance, not the _employers_ that will be required to provide it. Essentially all individuals will be obligated to purchase insurance (with a penalty/tax if they fail to do so); in some cases, employers will provide it (either by existing mandate, expanded mandate, or choice), but that's mostly beside the point.

> Tax something and you'll get less of it. This most certainly includes > "young" employment.

Well, yes, that certainly is a fundamental problem with imposing special additional taxes on employment as opposed to other income as we do through payroll taxes which promotes (given equal efficiency before considering taxation) capital-heavy over labor-heavy methods of production and suppresses employment, but since PPACA doesn't contain special taxes on "young employment", I'm not sure how its germane to the immediate conversation.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Is this really news? It's pretty well known that young men have the lowest health care costs of any demographic. In a system of distributed or shared cost, the community who costs the least to maintain will inevitably pay more for it.

I'm ok with it, personally, because I have no right to my being just as no one does.

</comment><comment><USER6> As others have said, this is inevitable. However, maybe the young men will appreciate it when they become old men.

<comment><USER4> Or maybe these young men realize that the Federal government's unfunded liabilities exceeding 90 _trillion_ dollars, prior to adding Obamacare, will not be redeemed, because they simply cannot be?

Seriously, I don't know your age, but are you at all confident that Social Security and Medicare will be there for you all the way to when you might die of natural causes? I seem to remember that surveys say the "young" don't believe it; if they're young enough, they don't expect to see _anything_ coming from their FICA taxes.

<comment><USER7> I'm about to turn 43, and I don't expect to see anything coming from my FICA taxes. I know that my FICA taxes are funding today's retirees, and not being held for me until I retire, and that unless the working population starts growing significantly larger soon, there won't be enough workers paying into the system when I'm ready to retire.

What I expect is going to happen is that the retirement age will keep climbing, and I'll be chasing it up until I die. I also expect that income/wealth-based limits will be imposed which will cap whatever I can get well below the amount I'll need to come anywhere close to replacing what I can earn by continuing to work.

I'm disappointed by this, but I accept that it's necessary to keep the system running for the people who need it more than I expect to, and I'm grateful that as a software engineer I'm likely to be able to earn a good income doing work that I enjoy for as long as I want to.

<comment><USER4> " _I know that my FICA taxes are funding today's retirees, and not being held for me until I retire...._ "

And this is not even completely true. From 1983 to 2009 the surplus in FICA taxes compared to expenses was just spent (there are filing cabinets with unmarketable IOUs from the government, what Al Gore's "lockbox" was all about); only in 2010 did the main Social Security fund start running a real deficit requiring money from the general fund.

I wonder about the retirement age climbing concept. Among other things, it's an even heavier burden on the young, e.g. your not retiring means 1 or 2 of them won't get a job in the first place. How long will they support a system that squeezes them so much? (There's lots more than this, of course, like non- recourse student loans.)

What makes people your age think you'll be able to keep your jobs? I said "1 or 2" since its quite common to replace more expensive older workers with a couple of young ones. Way too many programmers my age, a decade older, are finding it nearly impossible to stay employed in the field (another reason we don't care for the H-1B, L-1 etc. visa programs); I sincerely hope your optimism "that as a software engineer I'm likely to be able to earn a good income doing work that I enjoy for as long as I want to." is well founded. I found it more and more difficult to find work starting sometime after age 35 until I got a clue and hid my age (easy since fortunate genetics makes me look decades younger than I am ... well, until I slip up and e.g. mention PDP-11s, which once got an "How old _are_ you?!?!!" exclamation in an interview :-).

<comment><USER7> "What makes people your age think you'll be able to keep your jobs?"

Blind optimism? I don't really have alternatives. I do think there will be a potential for self-employment as a consultant, using my years of experience (constantly kept up to date) to keep me more productive than a team a younger programmers. I'm also hoping that the biases against older programmers will fade away as I, and the overall population of software developers, gets older.

There are always alternate career paths too. My skills and experience cover the entire breadth and depth of developing software products, so I have a pretty wide range of jobs I can handle. That should help me stay employable too.

<comment><USER4> If you have any talent or desire, you might want to add a bit of sysadmin work, especially setting up systems (in my case, I start with building them from "scratch", but I like that sort of thing). I.e. broaden your problem solving scope. In small companies I also generally took over the duty of doing backups, it's something I like to do and its importance cannot be overstated.

If you have the aptitude for consulting (I'm too much of an introvert to do that), yep, that's the classic thing to transition to. Other options are embedded and seriously classified work.

We're now going on two decades of bias against older programmers ... that hope may be misfounded (well, unless it's some young idiot that makes the first mistake that kills tens of thousands of people, the only thing that will substantially change our field in my opinion). It would be really nice if this changes, though. It would certainly be good for our field, then again, a counterpoint to the embedded recommendation is that device manufacturers have now trained us very well in the art of resetting borked devices....

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> An inevitable outcome of the switch to community rating: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_rating>

</comment><comment><USER8> Ouch. I am in the process of starting my own business and plan to eventually be doing it full time. I am currently 24 so I'm guessing once I turn 26 I will need to buy my own insurance. Any freelancers/small-business owners have any advice on this once the ACA goes into effect?

</comment><comment><USER9> is 26 considered young? Can't you be covered under your parents until then?

</comment><comment><USER10> It's called solidarity.</comment>


Scientists identify hundreds of atomically-thin materials - <AUTHOR> https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/02/there-are-probably-hundreds-of-graphene-like-chemicals-weve-not-studied-yet/ <comment><AUTHOR> Not only is this a nice demonstration of the power of open data, it's also very exciting for a whole range of material science research.</comment>


The grid of 2030: all renewable, 90 percent of the time - <AUTHOR> http://arstechnica.com/science/2012/12/the-grid-of-2030-all-renewable-90-percent-of-the-time/ <comment><USER2> The problem with this article, and nearly all others pushing for adoption of wind power, is that it ignores reality.

>>When there is not enough renewable energy direct from source, and the stored energy reserves are insufficient to bridge the shortfall, top up the remaining few percent of the demand with fossil fuels.<<

We don't have any way to "top up" the remaining few percent of demand with fossil fuels. You can't simply flip a switch on a coal fired or nuclear power plant and have it instantly produce power. These massive processes need tremendous lead time to start producing electricity. So, in theory wind could provide a lot of power, but since we have no idea when the wind will die and when we will need to "top off" the shortfall, we keep coal fired plants churning.

This is one reason why, as the largest utility in Germany states[1], it takes roughly 24MW of wind power to take just 1MW of fossil fuel power offline:

"As a result, the relative contribution of wind power to the guaranteed capacity of our supply system up to the year 2020 will fall continuously to around 4% (FIGURE 7). In concrete terms, this means that in 2020, with a forecast wind power capacity of over 48,000MW (Source: dena grid study), 2,000MW of traditional power production can be replaced by these wind farms."

Storage, and the near-immediate ability to use what is stored, would help this tremendously, but we don't have that capability, and we don't seem to be well on our way to getting it, even by 2030.

[1][http://www.wind- watch.org/docviewer.php?doc=eonwindreport200...](http://www.wind- watch.org/docviewer.php?doc=eonwindreport2005.pdf)

<comment><USER3> But you can do it with natural gas. We use gas plants that way right now.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> One great idea, is to store energy by ammonia NH3, split water into H2 and O (brown or grey, and you can actually clean the water this way) by electrolysis at as little as 1.2 V (Stan Meyer) and then using a reverse Fuel cell to bind the N in the air (N is about 80%) to store NH3 at as low as 120 PSI/10 Bar in existing nursing tanks. It can be used to run an existing (lightly converted) diesel generator or a fuel cell again at a higher efficiency level. No need to use H2 which requires massive amounts of energy to be cryogenically frozen or compressed in carbon fibre tanks. And you can run your diesel engine car/truck/train/ship.

Another novel and new invention is www.aquionenergy.com who has an environmental battery made of carbon and salt :)

Essentially its best to start capping our consumption levels and increasing efficiency. Have a look at the current wasted energy in our system: <https://flowcharts.llnl.gov>

</comment><comment><USER5> Wind and solar can be complimentary: Watch the Cal-ISO renewables graph (second graph on on this page: <http://www.caiso.com/outlook/SystemStatus.html> ; the first graph is demand and reserves ).

On many days, the wind power goes up at night and down during the day, very much in complement, though in larger scale than, solar generation. More solar will more nearly equalize the two -- on good days.

California is nowhere near having an overcapacity of renewable sources to worry about; just look at the first graph where the lowest demand (2 AM to 4 AM) is 22 GW on 12/14/2012. The highest the solar gets is not quite 1 GW. The wind is more variable, anecdotally as high as 3+ GW and as low as a flatline near zero for the whole state all day and night.

</comment><comment><USER3> It's good to see that there's an optimal solution that gets us reasonably economical power from 99.9% renewables.

What I'm wondering is whether we can get there from here. We can't simply dictate the end result we want and have it appear.

What we could use now is some kind of economic simulation, taking into account the cost of shutting down fossil plants early, the capital cost of building all that wind and solar (and the upfront capital is the bulk of the cost, since operating costs are low), the actual utilities and regulatory structures currently in place, etc.

Then we can see whether what sort of policy changes we might need, to get an end result like this, and what it will cost to put all this in place.

</comment><comment><USER6> Why don't we have our energy prices directly depending on the availability ? Each house should have a big meter showing the variable price and people will then use energy hungry appliances only when the energy is cheap.

This way we act as a buffer allowing better ressource usage.

Even better, appliances like dishwashers and washing machines could be connected to the network to read the price level and run automatically when the price is lower than a fixed amount.

Even better, for industries which are using energy automatically, they should bid for the excess energy and when there is a big surplus, the energy will be really cheap and will be used instead of going to waste.

<comment><USER7> There's already something called time-of-use metering, which is like what you're suggesting but based on long-term trends rather than a spot price.

Right now it's only cost-effective with large loads, and only economical if it's largely automated.

(By point of comparison, most people already can't be bothered to switch off a 100W room light when they leave. That means we just don't GAF about saving pennies per hour if it means we have to push a button every so often).

However, seeing how heating and cooling are the only residential loads that are really worth worrying about _, and both can typically be advanced or deferred by an hour or so without any problems, you could probably solve 90% of the problem by smartening up a handful of appliances in each home.

Industrial users can often do similar things. A cold storage facility, for example, could do most of it's cooling when power is cheap and then coast through the expensive periods. And they use enough electricity to pay someone (or buy an automated system) to handle it for them.

_Once you solve heating and cooling, everything other than cooking (basically lighting and entertainment) is getting more and more efficient every year. And most people don't cook enough to make that a significant load.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Solve the storage problem first, then everything else follows. Otherwise this is a recipe for disaster.

The problem with building out solar or especially wind power generation is that it's unreliable, it doesn't produce power when you want it. This means that you need to supplement power generation with low latency backup systems. Unfortunately, those systems tend to be gasoline-powered generators. Building those and operating them is expensive and also not so beneficial from a total CO2 emissions perspective. More so when you compare the whole system to simply replacing the windmill and the generator with a natural gas generator, which is more reliable, cheaper, and produces less total net CO2.

<comment><USER9> Germany gets 25% of their power from renewable energe.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Germany>

It's possible

<comment><USER10> Yes, but that doesn't contradict InclinedPlane's point in the least.

It's easy to generate a lot of renewable energy when you've got the old power plants ready to cover any shortfalls in generation capacity. Just because you can acheive 25% under those conditions by prioritizing renewables does _not_ imply that you can push renewables up to 90%+.

The wind can stop blowing for quite some time, even on a country wide scale. You either have to store the energy, import it from other countries or have backup power stations to cover the shortfall.

The (free) book Without Hot Air is a fantastic read for more information. It's written by a no nonsense physicist that dives pretty deep into possible plans for a future energy grid, including all the messy details.

And the details are _messy_. Any renewable energy plan that doesn't sound like a momentus undertaking is cheating by 1) Only talking about electricity, not total energy 2) Discounting embodied energy of imports 3) Keeping a country sized fossil fuel infrastructure around to fill in the gaps 4) Importing energy

Sometimes all four.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> even if i came up with a disruptive idea that was poorly executed

<https://sites.google.com/site/verticalwindfarm/>

it still doesnt matter because everyone gets screwed.

[http://www.csmonitor.com/layout/set/print/content/view/print...](http://www.csmonitor.com/layout/set/print/content/view/print/453200)

apparently there is no value in ideas.

also the only scholarship i ever got was from Chevron. the irony will save us!

</comment><comment><USER12> The takeaway is electricity prices will fall significantly and the worst climate change effects will be avoided as the market rapidly replaces our fossil fuel infrastructure with a renewable one.

</comment><comment><USER13> This is probably a bad idea, but couldn't you store energy basically having wind/solar power water pumps to pull water from one location to another? Something like 2 lakes side by side with a dam in the middle pulling energy off the transfer between when energy is needed and then water being pumped back in the reservoir when energy is being claimed from wind/solar?

<comment><USER14> This is addressed in the "Renewable Energy - Without the Hot Air" Report

[http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/withouthotair/c26/page_18...](http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/withouthotair/c26/page_187.shtml)

basically the author says that what you describe is the best option right now but there are only so many places you can put those facilities because they require very specific geography.

That being said building lakes and dams is really bad for the river eco system and really expensive to buy land out from under people to flood it.

<comment><USER15> I really should get around to reading that. His info theory book/lectures was/were very good. <http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/itprnn/book.html></comment></comment></comment>


Amazon.com lets you play with an Android virtual machine, try apps  - <AUTHOR> http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/27/amazon-com-lets-you-play-with-an-android-virtual-machine-try-ap/ <comment><USER2> Isnt that genius? SHouldnt any app store let you do this?

Apple should have VMs with all their apps for testing.

<comment><AUTHOR> Definitely, I probably wouldn't have bought half the apps I bought and bought maybe other apps or something else. Less buyer's regret is good.</comment></comment>


4 Out of 5 Developers Failed to Solve This Question - <AUTHOR> http://blog.takipi.com/4-out-of-5-java-developers-failed-to-solve-this-question/

<comment><USER2> So, I've got to admit, I don't really Java. But I'm really curious what's going on in that first question. The blog post says "T is replaced with Exception"... but the type parameter that was given was "RuntimeException." Does the compiler just ignore that type parameter and work within the context of that function?</comment>


RIP Vile Rat, EVE Online Diplomat, IRL State Dept Rep Killed In Benghazi - <AUTHOR> http://themittani.com/news/rip-vile-rat <comment><USER2> I'm an Eve player. I'm a TEST member so for quite a while I've been an allie to the alliance he was a member of but thats not why I know him. I knew VR because he was one of the most well know and well respected diplomats in the complex and amazing game of eve.

For those that don't play the game you have allies(who are called blues) and enemies(reds), and neutrals(greys) TEST(reddit) and Goons(SomethingAwful) always would joke about their ability to shoot blues(allies) for fun. But it would always require a trip to Vile Rat to sort it out.

I didn't know the man personally but I have respected him for a long time in a game that I really enjoy and from that I honestly feel personally connected to him. I have a lot of friends in this game who actually are personally connected to him.

Eve is fun, eve is empires with consequences, eve is taking a risk and losing it all. Something I think the traditional HN crowd would enjoy.

RIP Sean

And condolences to your family and your many friends around the world and all the people that have seen your messages, watched your diplomacy and looked up to your lead.

EDIT: for people up voting me for this. I appreciate the thought but I don't feel comfortable collecting virtual points for this. Instead of an up vote please just post a reply.

<comment><USER3> Personally I'm amazed at how high up this submission has made it on HN. I mean, VR wasn't in the hacker or IT community AFAIK; he helped run a big clan in a cult internet spaceship game. He was the victim of extremists in a dangerous region, like quite a few others. Yet a blogpost about him has risen to the top of HN.

There must be a good number of (ex-)EVE players here, or maybe it's because people strongly feel the immediacy and tragedy of an event like this even though they aren't part of the communities involved. Maybe they've even only heard about EVE on HN itself, but somehow feel like this guy was someone worth respecting - I don't know.

I don't really have a point to make, but I'm bemused and sort of glad.

<comment><USER4> Personally, I find it interesting and relevant here for two reasons:

1\. It shows how mainstream computer games have become. There's still a stereotype that gaming is not for serious people, but here we have an actual honest-to-god diplomat working overseas who was also a hardcore MMORPG player.

2\. One can actually be a big deal as a diplomat in an MMORPG. I had no idea that EVE could get that deep. I don't know if his real-world diplomacy informed his EVE playing, or the reverse, or if it was just a matter of being interested in that activity, but I find the whole concept of a real-world diplomat who plays a virtual spaceship diplomat in his spare time to be fascinating.

<comment><USER3> I don't mean to deflate your fascination, but he was actually an IT contractor/support worker for the DoS. I don't think he actually handled diplomacy, even low-level work.

With EVE, it's often the case that the leaders perform much higher-level tasks than they do in their everyday lives. I guess when people are given a chance in a new environment with different rules, new leaders and people of talent emerge. Maybe Vile Rat could have been a mover and shaker in the business or tech world if he had moved in the right directions.

A sad loss to his family, friends, country, and EVE.

<comment><USER5> "I don't think he actually handled diplomacy, even low-level work."

Diplomacy isn't like steel working where 'regular' people can't do it without a lot of equipment. There are really good diplomats in all sorts of places, from the president of the PTA to the stay at home parent with more than 2 kids. The guy's ability to see the problems and a path to solutions was legendary in the Eve community, so he wasn't negotiating who really owns what island in the south China sea, he was an _excellent_ diplomat.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Theres something missing from this all.

(12:54:09 PM) vile_rat: assuming we don't die tonight. We saw one of our 'police' that guard the compound taking pictures

This is Sept 11, 2012.

This ([http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/09/20129112108...](http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/09/20129112108737726.html)) article updated at 7:02(GMT?) reports the death. The video in that story was uploaded to youtube by Al Jazzera 9 hours ago which would be midnight Bengazhi time (EET) <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcm_Ss0ExZg>.

So at some point roughly after 00:00 EET when the Al Jazeera footage was shot, where we see what is described as 1500 protesters and thousands of riot police, and 7:00 EET an American IT worker is shot and killed in a consulate.

I don't see who gains from staging protests on a sensitive day and letting an American get killed. Of all the people who would be at a consulate the IT guy happens to be the unlucky one. I don't think this was a 'normal' protest.

<comment><USER7> "I don't see who gains from staging protests on a sensitive day"

Did you miss that the protests were a reaction to an incendiary anti-Islamic video?

<comment><USER8> I don't know if you're defending the actions of these people (I can hardly imagine), but I don't understand why people still defend Islamic protests at ALL. Back when that Dutch cartoonist drew an offensive picture of Mohammed, Christians throughout the Middle East and Africa were being killed, churches burned.

The entire region is laced with (or at least completely tolerant of) hateful, backwards savages. These "you made fun of me" protests are a way to stir up hatred and Anti-Western sentiment, and maybe get to kill a few non-believers.

<comment><USER9> I'm pretty sure he's not trying to defend them, just addressing the "this is not normal" part of the GGP.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> "If you play this stupid game, you may not realize it, but you play in a galaxy created in large part by Vile Rat's talent as a diplomat. No one focused as relentlessly on using diplomacy as a strategic tool as VR. Mercenary Coalition flipped sides in the Great War in large part because of Vile Rat's influence, and if that hadn't happened GSF probably would have never taken out BoB."

Sounds like a man who was good at his job. I feel a lot better about the State Department knowing they hire people like this. The comments say he had a family, I hope they're taken care of. RIP.

</comment><comment><USER11> He was also a moderator at SomethingAwful.com. Here's the thread about his passing: [http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=350...](http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3506424&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1)

Corresponding Middle East thread (go to last page for coverage of the incident): [http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=339...](http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3390388)

There is an article in Eurogamer about him: [http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-09-12-us-official- kil...](http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-09-12-us-official-killed-in- syria-was-a-senior-eve-online-player)

</comment><comment><USER12> I was on the other side of the war when Lokta Volterra was swept away and saw the carefully placed agents disrupt and cripple the defense and organization. Those events pretty much killed EVE for me as I lost everything in the game and had no desire to rebuild.

Looking back 6 years later, it's fascinating how we touch each others lives through these communities. While I never knew VR, I can't help but to feel connected to this State Dept official in Libya. RIP.

</comment><comment><USER13> RIP Vile Rat. I didn't know him personally but I feel like I did, through being an SA forums member and playing Eve Online in Goonfleet for many years. He was a moderator on SA and well known for being a great, helpful guy. Truly a sad day.

<comment><USER14> He was a bad mod, with an awful tattoo. He was exceptionally good at eve online diplomacy.

The point is not that he was a unique and amazing human being without fault, but that he was our human being and he's gone. Over a shitty video that no one sane thinks is relevant or impressive.

Rest in peace.

<comment><USER15> RIP Vile Tat.

That tattoo was truly something awful.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> There's a mass rename of a great number of "outposts" in the game to honor Vile Rat: <http://evemaps.dotlan.net/outposts/changes>

</comment><comment><USER17> This is really sad (I remember trying to play EVE from Baghdad, but the latency made combat really painful, so instead I just read kindle books...).

I wish DoS had more "continuous" force protection levels; they seem to go from ~nothing (relying on host nation) to absurd overkill, with nothing in between, unlike DoD and others who have multiple levels.

<comment><USER18> >I wish DoS had more "continuous" force protection levels

I imagine they will, now.

I think State's head of diplomatic security hasn't been doing his job very well...

<comment><USER17> What happened was they never had staffing appropriate to the mission, so they switched to using contractors for PSD (far more than DoD ever did; for DoD, contractors were support and logistics and low-level on base security).

The triple worldwide security contract (Blackwater, DynCorp, Triple Canopy) seemed ok, but then there were political/PR issues with Blackwater.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> RIP Vile Rat. I didn't know him, but as an Eve player I've felt the impact of his influences there.

Didn't expect to see this on HN. Interesting the differences in comments between here and /r/eve.

</comment><comment><USER20> Terrible. RIP. :(

What can we do to stop things like this from happening again? There's clearly no quick-fix overnight solution, but there should be _some_ set of actions we can take to slowly reduce/eventually eliminate this kind of violence. Any ideas?

<comment><USER21> Fight religious extremism in all its forms. Let it be known that, as a civilized people, we will not tolerate the barbaric intrusions of emotionally and intellectually stunted children who can be whipped into a murderous frenzy by some priest or imam prattling on about God. Their "culture", such as it is, is simply incompatible with ours, and ours _must_ win.

This is why the isolationists and non-interventionists are so gravely mistaken, and why the homicidal infants have a leg up in this fight: the latter _understand_ that this is a war of cultures, and that only one will survive. They've already infiltrated Europe and demanded their right to Sharia law, their right to blow up embassies because of cartoons or, as in this case, movies, their right to bomb subways.

If we are to preserve the Enlightenment values that have raised humanity out of the dark ages and so improved our lot in life, if we are to continue to progress as a species, then we must be willing to fight for what we believe. We will not win this battle with diplomacy; our enemy has no desire for it. We must stamp out the medieval death cults that threaten us, and this will require force.

We didn't start this fight, and let no liberal or pacifist tell you that the suicide bombings and attacks on liberty are the result of our foreign policy; they are not. They are the result of the inherent incompatibility of freedom and fundamentalism. Freedom isn't free, and if we aren't willing to fight to preserve our liberty, then we will deservedly lose it.

<comment><USER22> Instead of "fight[ing]," which seems to perpetuate the us-vs-them problem, why not focus on using enlightenment itself to preserve these enlightenment values? Instead of _attacking_ magical thinking, _promote_ rationality. Instead of _attacking_ extremist religious belief, _promote_ its antidote, a thirst for knowledge.

What would be really cool is if someone can figure out a way to trick the part of our brains that craves a Disney-style magical reality into contributing to its own demise. In other words, say to people, "Want a magical world? Join us in the use of science and technology to build it for ourselves."

<comment><USER21> >Instead of attacking magical thinking, promote rationality. Instead of attacking extremist religious belief, promote its antidote, a thirst for knowledge.

Both are necessary. We must bring the fruits of the enlightenment, and the very real individual benefits thereof, to the people who would otherwise be ripe recruits for fundamentalism. To be blunt, however, we must also kill those who promote and carry out terrorist attacks against us.

>What would be really cool is if someone can figure out a way to trick the part of our brains that craves a Disney-style magical reality into contributing to its own demise. In other words, say to people, "Want a magical world? Join us in the use of science and technology to build it for ourselves."

While the second sentence seems suspect, I really like the first one. There would be a sort of cosmic beauty in using the vagaries of human consciousness that lead us to magical thinking to cure ourselves of same. Noe _that_ would be a worthy hack.

<comment><USER22> _To be blunt, however, we must also kill those who promote and carry out terrorist attacks against us._

I'm not yet convinced of this. Maybe there truly are some people beyond redemption (with current technology), but I question how large that set could be, and doubt it encompasses every single member of any group designated by various governments as a terrorist organization (like Wikipedia).

<comment><USER22> I'm past the editing time limit, so I'm responding to note that "Wikipedia" should be "Wikileaks". Firefox and my KDE color scheme interact badly, creating black-on-dark-gray input boxes. Custom user style sheets don't help.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> SA mod too, all around nice guy.

<comment><USER24> Didn't know him personally at all, but I thought he had done excellent work in what must be one of the hardest jobs on the internet; voluntarily moderating a political forum. Soar in the wild blue yonder, Vilerat.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> Strange times we live in. Blessed to be able to learn from and interact with amazing souls, no matter where they are in the physical world.

RIP.

</comment><comment><USER26> A major norwegian newspaper just published a picture on their front page of someone being dragged out of there.

I am not going to link it because nobody should have to see that. Especially not anybody who knew him.

Every picture that could mean someone is identified is usually blurred out before being published, but not today apparently. Seeing the picture made me feel sick and disgusted with how the media operates.

I did not know Sean but as an former EVE player I have heard of him.

My thoughts go out to his family and loved ones, and to those of you that knew him. I am truly sorry for your loss. :(

RIP Sean

<comment><USER27> Reports are that was the ambassador, who is now also reported as having been killed in the attack.

<comment><USER11> Comparing the stock photo of the ambassador with the picture of the man being evacuated from the burning building suggests that it was indeed Christopher Stevens, who later died of smoke inhalation.

<comment><USER27> You think the photo is of someone trying to help him? Hmmm. Could be. Hadn't seen it that way at first.

<comment><USER11> I think so, yes. They really don't look like an angry chanting mob to me. Besides, it's also a good default assumption before jumping to any conclusions.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> And now the US ambassador to Libya has been killed. Another successful foreign intervention ...

<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19570254>

</comment><comment><USER29> Aweful, just aweful. May he rest in peace.

</comment><comment><USER30> Positive violence feedback loop. Nothing good will ever come out of one.

</comment><comment><USER31> RIP Sean

I had the joy of talking with him often in EVE / on Jabber and will never forget the fun we had together.

</comment><comment><USER32> A massive number of stations are changing their names in memorandum - <http://evemaps.dotlan.net/outposts/changes>

</comment><comment><USER33> Statement from Secretary of State: <http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2012/09/197630.htm>

</comment><comment><USER34> RIP Sean.

</comment><comment><USER35> RIP Fella. Saw it on the news and thought it was a dick-move by the Libyans to burn the Consulate.

</comment><comment><USER36> Former player here. A huge loss for everyone, in game and out.

Religion poisons everything.

</comment><comment><USER37> I was saying back in the day in another HN post that the so called Libyan "protesters" were a bunch of crooks and mercenaries picked up and supported to topple Khadaffi. The Libyan case had nothing like the _real_ popular protest in Algeria, Egypt etc.

Why? Because Libya was stable under Khadaffi (as stable as those kind of places get) and people had it relatively very good. And yet he was portrayed like some Dr. Evil plotting to takeover the world, so that the western masses will cheer when he got toppled and foreign interests get the oil and natural resources.

And the very thing was hailed as a "triumph of democracy" etc (what a democracy, when foreign leaders cheer when an adversary is beaten to a pulp -- gone are the days when even Nazi generals were treated with respect by the western officers when captured).

Well, it didn't last long, now, as predicted, Libya will get to be another unstable, civil-war, dogmatic islam nightmarish country.

<comment><USER38> The unfortunate truth is that some of these dictators and their military was all that was keeping their countries from turning into bastions of religious intolerance. To a zealot anything is an offense and any offense is an excuse.

Egypt isn't exactly improving, if anything they are moving backwards at the hands of religious zealots. Algeria is in a better state as its government is still in place.

<comment><USER39> Yeah, Libya under Qadafi had the highest human development index rating in Africa.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Deve...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index)

Iran ended up going Islamist after a monarchy installed by the US and Britain, unseating a democratically elected government, failed. Hopefully Libya won't go that way, but wouldn't be that surprising.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> As an aside ~ I find it an interesting convergence of 'our future' that the man used social engineering / diplomacy / subterfuge to excel in the most cut- throat and blood-thirsty game on the market, where sociopathic tendencies are often required to 'win'.

Oh, and he played EvE well, apparently.

[He "worked IT" for an embassy in a war zone, and modelled complex 'interpersonal' relations in a vast virtual world. We've come a long way from Pong. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loren_Carpenter>]

<comment><USER40> For reference for the negative score ~ " . " is a common mark of respect, denoting a loss. I see it was removed / formatted out. (Original comment started with " . " one line).

Are we to Ignore the fact that it's commonly known that the higher levels of playing EvE are notorious for ruthless / sociopathic behaviours, and that praising his on-line skills might have irony to it?

I'm not sure being remembered as "that total bastard from GoonSquad" is expressing quite what you all intend.

[Out of Thread] [.]

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> Translat title to English, please.

<comment><USER42> Rest in peace, "Vile Rat", a virtual diplomat in the game EVE Online, and in real life, a State Department representative killed in Benghazi

</comment></comment><comment><USER43> Couldn't have happened to a nicer racist apologist for imperialism. RIP Viletat

<comment><USER43> Africa would have been subjected to a bloodbath of proportions unseen in history if the white man hadn't destroyed their culture first.

Examples I point to are as follows -

The Zulu nation was happily destroying not only all of it's neighbors, but many of their own people as the leadership happened to be certifiably insane. Shaka for example had a small penis (actually historically accurate) and killed thousands of people because of it. The zulu empire was actually not the bad one as the Matabele under Mzilikali after his loss to the zulu, took his tribe and conducted a scorched earth campaign across the lower section of africa destroying all in his path.

Lets not forget the laughable Xhosa girl Nongqawuse who said she saw visions that if everybody killed off their cattle and burned their fields the dead spirits of their ancestors would grant not only tenfold cattle in return, but destruction of the new white Anglo/Boer civilization in the southern cape. Needless to say after they slaughtered and burned everything no ancestors were forthcoming and 25 thousand of the Xhosa tribe died. The tribes of africa were largely barbaric and vicious groups of people who really only understood killing for the most part. There were exceptions to the rule as there always are, the hottentots, and various smaller tribes, but for the most part african culture was set up to destroy other cultures to begin with.

I'm not going to say that they are better off having been colonized by the europeans, but the alternative was pretty vicious as well.

<comment><USER44> Rubbish

Zulu were a war like nation engaged in successful conquering of SAfrican tribes yes. Just like many many others before throughout the world.

If they had learnt to build the infrastructure of civilisation like others before then sub Saharan culture could have had one united pan- culture and developed just like others before it.

But we destroyed that - apparently doing them a favour

Japan shows an excellent example of how to absorb technological advances without getting wiped out - and offers an alternative to your rather insulting White conquer or self destruction theory.

<comment><USER45> Why are you encouraging debate on a comment which is irrelevant to the thread topic?

<comment><USER44> You are quite correct</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


WordPress VIP sites have been hit by outages - <AUTHOR> https://techcrunch.tumblr.com/post/185522867574/wordpress-vip-go-sites-are-experience-outages <comment><USER2> Here's a plain version without the Oath consent form: [https://outline.com/BhZZTZ](https://outline.com/BhZZTZ)

This one might be a better article: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20158002](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20158002)

</comment><comment><USER3> Can't this outage not be fixed? I'm seeing much faster load times!

</comment><comment><USER4> Updates: [https://lobby.vip.wordpress.com/2019/06/11/503-errors-and- av...](https://lobby.vip.wordpress.com/2019/06/11/503-errors-and-availability- issues-for-vip-go-sites/)

</comment><comment><USER5> I used to work on a VIP site, it was their largest customer and we got 600 million monthly pageviews.

Scaling WordPress to that level is a challenge, but with multiple levels of network and software caching, it worked.

My particular sites wouldn't be down, because of akamai fallback.

<comment><USER6> i had a site with ~ 10m pageviews monthly that used to run on a $20 DigitalOcean instance.

What kind of things you need to do to scale that up to 600m PV monthly?

<comment><USER7> Depends on whether the majority of views are on static blog posts, as they can be cached and served from nginx. But if you've got a lot of dynamic views - comments, admin, personalised - it's much harder.

Still impressive you managed to get that level of performance out of a $20 DO box.

<comment><USER8> 10m page views really doesn't look that big if you bring it down to pageviews/second and there's some reasonable distribution.

Assuming a busy day is 1M, and that a busy hour of the busy day has 100,000, but over the hour is evenly distributed, you're looking at under 30 page views per second. Maybe peak is a little more. If this is tuananh's current site, it's Jekyl, so it's all static -- you could probably host that on a 486 (as long as there aren't any big images to clog the nic). If it's something with a little bit of dynamic content, you might need to be careful about how you structure it, but something reasonable should be fine at that level of traffic too, just need to make sure you don't spend a lot of cpu doing useless work (like some frameworks that take 60ms to output hello world)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Rolling Stone are currently on the default Twenty Seventeen Wordpress theme.

[https://rollingstone.com/](https://rollingstone.com/)

Quite amusing.

<comment><USER10> Hackaday is borked too.

[https://hackaday.com/](https://hackaday.com/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Diversity in nature or technology is important. And it's worrisome that both are disappearing.

"The resulting homogeneity and uniformity can offer substantial advantages in both the quantity and quality of crop harvested, but this same genetic homogeneity can also reflect greater susceptibility or pathogens. Thus it appears the more that agricultural selection disturbs the natural balance in favor of variety uniformity over large areas, the more vulnerable such varieties are to losses from epidemics." [https://www.nap.edu/read/2116/chapter/5](https://www.nap.edu/read/2116/chapter/5)

\- [https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/06/01/aws_outage/](https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/06/01/aws_outage/)

\- [https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/2/18649635/youtube- snapchat-...](https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/2/18649635/youtube-snapchat- down-outage)

\- [https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/06/11/wordpress_vip_go_ou...](https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/06/11/wordpress_vip_go_outage/)

And if we take the word of Steve Jobs on this one we are for a hard ride: "It turns out the same thing can happen in technology companies that get monopolies, like IBM or Xerox. If you were a product person at IBM or Xerox, so you make a better copier or computer. So what? When you have monopoly market share, the company's not any more successful.

So the people that can make the company more successful are sales and marketing people, and they end up running the companies. And the product people get driven out of the decision making forums, and the companies forget what it means to make great products. The product sensibility and the product genius that brought them to that monopolistic position gets rotted out by people running these companies that have no conception of a good product versus a bad product.

They have no conception of the craftsmanship that's required to take a good idea and turn it into a good product. And they really have no feeling in their hearts, usually, about wanting to really help the customers." [https://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-on-why- innovation...](https://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-on-why-innovation- dies-at-tech-monopolies-2014-11?r=US&IR=T)

With our economy and daily lives so dependent in a few companies, any drop in quality will impact all corners of society.

<comment><USER12> I'm not sure why you think hosting diversity is disappearing when it comes to WordPress. The past 2 years has seen a huge surge in great companies offering premium managed WordPress hosting services.

Liquidweb, cloudways, wpengine, getflywheel, pantheon.

Granted, many use google cloud or similar for actual hosting rather than their own metal... But the services built on top have never been better.

<comment><USER13> Agreed, VIP is good for enterprises, the paid tiers are okay for personal sites... But as soon as a medium sized business gets into customizations, they have to move off WordPress and onto one of the many dedicated WordPress hosting companies.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Hackaday's case was interesting, they quickly hacked (sorry) a fix together and by mistake ended up piping all comments into the RSS feed.

[https://hackaday.com/2019/06/11/the-day-hackadays-theme- was-...](https://hackaday.com/2019/06/11/the-day-hackadays-theme-was-broken/)

</comment><comment><USER15> Aren't most of these sites fronted by CDNs that should solve that problem?

<comment><USER16> WordPress blogs/themes are not static assets.

<comment><USER17> They kind of are though.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> We have some sites hosted under WordPress.com's Business Plan; luckily it looks like we are not affected by this.

</comment><comment><USER19> We host our sites on Pantheon - I've loved them. Check them out - pantheon.io

<comment><USER20> I know many Pantheon people closely and had seen what they do. It's a good platform, but WordPress.com platform tend to be a lot more mature and reliable, despite this incident.</comment></comment>


Google fined in France for making Google Maps free - <AUTHOR> http://searchengineland.com/french-court-fines-google-660000-dollars-google-maps-109930

<comment><USER2> Nice to see Google pilloried from the right for overcharging and from the left for undercharging.</comment>


NASA to deploy PostgreSQL/Nagios on Space Station - <AUTHOR> http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-general/2010-07/msg00394.php

<comment><USER3> The child in me wants to drop everything he is doing; a new job, and apartment rent in 2 continents, and just go volunteer for this.

<comment><USER4> Is there anything cooler or more badass than writing software _used in space_? Whenever I'm told that a piece of software isn't fit for "mission critical applications," I think of NASA.

I'd love to help out with this, but I'm afraid I lack the necessary skill set. Still, maybe I will poke around the NDOUtils source anyways.

If anyone else is interested, here's a link to the NDOUtils source tarball: [http://sourceforge.net/projects/nagios/files/ndoutils-1.x/nd...](http://sourceforge.net/projects/nagios/files/ndoutils-1.x/ndoutils-1.4b9/ndoutils-1.4b9.tar.gz/download)

<comment><USER5> Yeah, it would be a lot cooler to go into space...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> NASA's commitment to open source is fairly great. And, postgresql is a really great database. If you haven't used it before, I highly recommend giving it a run.

<comment><USER7> It's just too bad they've got to pair it with Nagios; I'm fixing it so that I never have to work with that POS ever again.

<comment><USER8> Well, as far as I can tell, all the other solutions they could be using suck more, at least adding new modules to nagios is about as easy as writing a script. Cause that's all you have to do. I've dealt with installs checking hundreds of servers,routers and switches and our only major issue was needing to distribute the checks onto multiple machines. One box will die trying to ping,connect,... onto too many nagios boxes.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Why Postgres? I'm a fan of it, but I wonder why they can't/won't use mysql?

(I'm looking for a good technical explanation, if anyone has one.)

<comment><AUTHOR> My guess would be that NASA already uses postgres for other duties and is hesitant to introduce a new database into their infrastructure - <USER2> one with so many known problems.

If I was them then I most certainly wouldn't want a database with silent data truncation/corruption issues to come anywhere near my spaceships. Not even for seemingly unimportant tasks because even those may cost amazing amounts of money to fix if they go wrong a few thousand kilometers above groundlevel...

<comment><USER10> Regrettably only a few hundred kilometers above groundlevel (the ISS is at a height of about 350 km).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Isn't the computing power on the ISS almost purely made up of Thinkpad laptops running Windows? Will they be running PostgreSQL and Nagios on a Windows machine?

</comment><comment><USER8> That's awesome. Nagios in space. Sounds like a cool comedy title. Were about to install Nagios here too. One more point for management to like the idea ;p

</comment><comment><USER12> well, they want to deploy Pg/Nagios on the Space Station, pity Nagios's support for anything other than MySQL is poor to non-existent.

<comment><USER13> It's not really a pity at all. It will be more work for them, but it's a win for us as long as they pass their code to make it work back upstream.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Another NASA open source programmer checking in.

</comment><comment><USER15> Well, I guess they just haven't heard how awesome NoSQL is yet :)

<comment><USER16> I'm an intern at NASA this summer, and I've actually convinced the team I'm working with to use Redis/Resque for the application we're working on. Unfortunately it's 'just' a web application ;)

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> Makes me wonder about budget cuts...

<comment><USER18> "I felt about as good as anybody would, sitting in a capsule on top of a rocket that were both built by the lowest bidder." \-- John Glenn on how it felt waiting to for the rocket to launch</comment></comment>