Biometric YubiKey - <AUTHOR> https://www.yubico.com/2019/11/yubico-reveals-first-biometric-yubikey-at-microsoft-ignite/ <comment><USER3> 1) This is an upgrade to the touch sensitive button that's on all YubiKeys today. The reason you have to touch the key is so that if an attacker gains access to your computer with an attached Yubikey, they will not be able to use it (it requires physical presence). Now that touch sensitive button becomes a fingerprint reader, so it can't be activated by just anyone.

2) The computer/OS doesn't have to support anything for this added feature.

<comment><USER4> A fingerprint is only going to stop a very opportunistic attacker. Someone who already has your desktop and app password and physical access to your desktop can probably get a fingerprint off a glass, cup or something else.

I don't think this product is as useful as it seems at first glance. Using stronger passwords is probably just as safe.

But I am no tptacek so I may be completely wrong :)

<comment><USER5> > A fingerprint is only going to stop a very opportunistic attacker. Someone > who already has your desktop and app password and physical access to your > desktop can probably get a fingerprint off a glass, cup or something else.

I do hope you realize this raises the amount of work the attacker has to do to actually get access to your device. It's a little like saying a second lock on your door is not going to stop anyone, but in practice statistics are clear: adding one more layer, even if that layer can be defeated as well, reduces the chance of a successful attack, or deters the attacker in the first place.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Funnily, this might actually stop the YubiKey from being triggered inadvertently by my lap. The number of times I have broadcasted OTP codes on Slack is embarrassing.

If you're looking to fix this, you can use the guide below.

> > [https://support.yubico.com/support/solutions/articles/150000...](https://support.yubico.com/support/solutions/articles/15000006440-accidentally- > triggering-otp-codes-with-your-nano-yubikey)

<comment><USER7> You can obstruct the lower contact (such that the metal is not exposed) by painting it, or covering it with a sticker.

You can switch to the long press slot.

You can remove the carriage return at the end of the sequence (so it doesn't hit ENTER for you).

It's a bit silly that the default implementation is so non-user-friendly.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> As someone that does a lot of rock climbing, no finger print readers work for me. I lose skin off my hands on a daily basis, I know not all products are made for all people but if my (extremely security conscious) employer ever implements something like this Im screwed.

<comment><USER9> You'd be screwed because your employer would fire you because their fingerprint reader-based security does not work for you?

<comment><USER10> That's what nfc cards are for

<comment><USER11> You can pass the NFC card, which is different from biometric. Unless you mean implants?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Is there any credit card size yubikeys yet? Also, how come macbooks don't come with nfc yet? Carrying keys is not something I've done for 10 years or so.

What I'd really like to see is government ID that works somehow similarly how domain certificates work - you can either use your Id as yubikey or authorize/mint multiple additional keys using same certificate chain...

My country Id has a chip that requires you to run java applet in browser. Nobody uses that shit. Other options are logging in via internet banking (people are flocking away from traditiona banks in europe to monese, revolut and the like) or via SMS while using special SIM card (requires paid membership from oligopolic mobile providers). It's so modern that you are locked out from your government digital services if you live abroad...

<comment><USER13> What I would recommend is buying an off-the-shelf retractable lanyard [1] and putting a Yubikey on it. I do so myself, and it has a number of advantages:

* You cannot leave your computer alone with Yubikey plugged in (especially useful when combined with modifying your PAM stack to lock the screen when yubikey is plugged out [2])

* Plugging Yubikey on a keychain which is bulky is cumbersome

* Yubikey on your neck can be a great conversation opener :)

[1] [https://www.amazon.com/Updated-CarryLuxe-Lanyard- Polyester-R...](https://www.amazon.com/Updated-CarryLuxe-Lanyard-Polyester- Retractable/dp/B071D55VN9/)

[2] [https://tbabej.com/Yubikey-secure-session- setup/](https://tbabej.com/Yubikey-secure-session-setup/)

<comment><USER14> Isn't there an NFC yubikey? That should solve the "have to plug it" issue.

<comment><USER15> The Neo, at least, supports NFC

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I have mixed feelings about this. The form factor is great as a second factor, but I don't trust fingerprints as a primary auth factor due to (1) existing precedent of bugs in fingerprint recognition (2) that you can't revoke your fingerprint, and (3) that Yubikeys are somewhat easy to lose.

<comment><USER17> You cannot revoke your fingerprint, but your fingerprint is just unlocking a private key. You can revoke that private key. So if you lose the YubiKey you can still revoke that YubiKey.

Do I understand that correct?

<comment><USER18> The new private key would still be unlockable with the same fingerprint.

<comment><USER19> Doesn't matter, it's in your possession. If you lose it, you revoke the yubikey.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> This is pretty neat. I wish there was a USB-C model.

<comment><USER21> To my knowledge (electrical engineer) there is no usb-c connector with solid strain relief. I haven't been looking for one specifically but I've been looking at upgrading a project to usb-c.

All the usb-c connectors I know have soldered body connections, which makes for a really poor mechanical bond. Solder joints are full of mechanical stresses and the only thing preventing a bend is the copper delaminating from the pcb.

In usb-a, any bending has to break the entire substrate. Decent plated contacts will outlast the connectors they're plugging into. On top of that you can plate something like a yubikey on both sides if you wanted to, so the only advantage is size and it's not like you're plugging these things into your phone. As long as computers still have a single usb-a (and they should, if only for backwards compatibility) it's a non-issue, IMO.

<comment><USER22> My macbook has only usb-c ports

<comment><USER23> Same here. That's why I got their mini USB C key so it's barely noticeable.

Solokey is also pretty good.

<comment><USER21> They've got the best kind of connector I've seen[1], with soldered joints on both sides of the board and a little wrap around, but it's still not as solid long-term as the USB-A keys. Over time the solder will start to crack. It also requires a much thinner board, so it's fragile because of that.

With a high-quality product like a 2factor key, this may not be an issue. But wifi/bluetooth/SDR dongles and adapters get made to much lower standards and with cheaper solder. Cheap solder is far more prone to degradation.

[1]: [https://i.shgcdn.com/25b75d64-fced-4845-acc5-91c39d0029bd/-/...](https://i.shgcdn.com/25b75d64-fced-4845-acc5-91c39d0029bd/-/format/auto/-/preview/3000x3000/-/quality/lighter/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Sounds like a creative new way to get locked out of your own keys.

<comment><USER25> You mean if you get a cut on the finger you registered. On this page[1], though, it says it would support "[storing] multiple fingerprints", so that should help in that case.

[1] [https://www.yubico.com/products/yubikey- hardware/](https://www.yubico.com/products/yubikey-hardware/)

<comment><USER26> That is a must, I recently started skateboarding and wipping it up and grabbing the sanding paper-like surface makes my fp scanner not work for about 2 days!

<comment><USER27> Hot tip for guitarists: left thumb fluctuates least.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> What most comments are missing here is that webauth is a replacement for passwords. You know the "123456789", "jim1966", "monkey123", etc. With this key, remote attackers are completely neutralized. That's the bulk if not almost all attacks usually.

<comment><USER29> It is not a password replacement, you still need multiple factors of authentication. Yubikey satisfies the "something you have" factor, your password is still the "something you know". Your password can be learned but should not be usable without something you have. Your token can be taken but should not be usable without the something you know. Fingerprints are not infalable, it's more confidence of a match then exact match - Samsung was just in the news because someone figured out how to trick their sensors to read a false positive. Having a password also would keep that from being exploitable. Also keep in mind that current school of legal thought in the US is that biometrics don't qualify for 5th amendment protections whereas passwords do - police can force you to put your finger on a reader, but they can't force you to give a password without judicial review.

<comment><USER19> You do not need 2 factors with this solution, which is the whole point. This isn't a 2FA token anymore. 2FA was a mitigation against phishing and credential theft. This solves that problem with a single factor. It _is_ a password replacement.

<comment><USER30> Unlike a password, a court (in the US) might be able to compel you to provide access to your accounts/encrypted disks via your YubiKey + fingerprint.

<comment><USER31> While the cases in which a court could compel you to provide your password are much narrower, note that they still do exist.

[https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/03/man-jailed- indef...](https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/03/man-jailed-indefinitely- for-refusing-to-decrypt-hard-drives-loses-appeal/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> This is so cool. What I am worried about using fingerprint is that they are either stored on a laptop or a smartphone. You have to trust a lot of hardware, the whole software stack made by many third parties to protect that data.

With this key, that's already many less parts to verify and trust.

Let's hope it's not easily reverse-engineerable and the key is never shared with Yubikey.

</comment><comment><USER33> Again: fingerprints are absolutely unsuitable as 'passwords'. They are at most, usernames. Because they cant be changed regularly, are left around for people to find (on the yubikey device itself!), are readily connected to you as a person, have terrible entropy (a few bits).

<comment><USER34> Fingerprints aren't passwords here.

<comment><USER35> The problem is still there.

<comment><USER34> The problem of your misunderstanding in this case. That can be fixed though.

<comment><USER35> _facepalm_

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> Can someone point me to a similar MFA solution where I use my phone biometrics as the factor instead of yubikey?

I have the Authenticator apps but it'd be nice if the phone and computer could exchange those numbers for me.

<comment><USER37> If you use Android, Google is implementing that into the OS itself: [https://krebsonsecurity.com/2019/04/android-7-0-phones- can-n...](https://krebsonsecurity.com/2019/04/android-7-0-phones-can-now- double-as-google-security-keys/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> Any word how this will be supported on Linux? The article states:

"In keeping with Yubico's design philosophy, the YubiKey Bio will not require any batteries, drivers, or associated software."

<comment><USER39> This is a FIDO2 device.

It's actually easier to support this in Linux than a "conventional" PIN-based FIDO2 token because the Linux system doesn't need to arrange to read a PIN from the user and send that to the token, the token is going to read the user's fingerprint instead.

If you just want a second factor, it'll work like an old FIDO device, which you might be familiar with for U2F - everything is already in place, loads of people are doing this including with Yubico's existing FIDO2 (pin-based) product.

If you want this to be the sole factor (as in the Windows demos or for a site where the convenience of one touch login is good but you don't need MFA security) that ought to work with WebAuthn out of the box, but I actually haven't seen a demo, so I can't say this from personal experience even though I own a FIDO2 token.

<comment><USER40> www.passwordless.dev has a demo passwordless fido2 login workflow that will trigger the fido2 pin prompt in Chrome.

<comment><USER39> Thanks. So that‡ works on my Windows gaming laptop with Chrome, but not (with the same FIDO2 token) with Firefox including on any of my Linux systems (I don't run Chrome on Linux so did not test). Plenty of work to be done there apparently. Good to know.

‡ Referring to "Go usernameless too" which is the mode where a PIN is needed. All the other modes are just plain FIDO and don't need any further verification, and they work just fine on all my systems with any of my tokens.

<comment><USER41> FIDO2/U2F support is still an experimental feature in Firefox, but can be activated with the "security.webauth.u2f" setting in about:config.

<comment><USER39> The flag you're talking about is (as its name hints) about the legacy U2F which can't do this flow at all. As I explained this already works fine and I use it every day.

Using the FIDO2 Yubikey as sole source of truth replacing usernames and passwords is not available in U2F that's a WebAuthn feature only and apparently it doesn't work in Firefox yet which is disappointing.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> What happens if you lose your yubikey? Are you then locked out of your accounts? Or is there a backup way to get in, and if so does that make the yubikey kinda pointless anyway?

<comment><USER43> The obvious solution to me (although I don't see it recommended on the yubikey website) is to buy 2 yubikeys and register both with services.

Then put the 2nd in a locked safe or other location that requires someone to have absurd access.

If you lose the 1st, use the 2nd to deregister the 1st and register a 3rd.

<comment><USER44> Usually you'd have more than one sysadmin on the team so the 2nd guy could restore your access.

Having a reliance on 1 individual creates a great deal of risk, not just in the case of lost YubiKeys.

<comment><USER43> For business use, sure, but not for personal use.

Relying on recovery methods for all your yubikey secured accounts would be a vast amount of work.

<comment><USER44> ahh sorry yes. For some reason personal use completely slipped my mind.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER45> I've seen something similar done with a yubikey 5C nano + onboard biometric. I like that more than this because this is a giant dongle sticking out of my computer. Still better than the military's CAC card solution, which seems like the worst of all worlds.

</comment><comment><USER46> I've read several articles and discussions about the topic, but I'm still a little fuzzy on where biometrics fit in the context of authentication: username, password, just another factor? What is the role of the fingerprint in the case of this key?

<comment><USER47> "Something I know, something I have, something I am". I think "something I am" is difficult to achieve.

<comment><USER48> I think a lot of people are questioning whether "something I am" is even a good target to aim for at all. As other folks in these comments have mentioned: if your fingerprints/retinas/DNA are compromised, you can't change them the way you can with a password.

<comment><USER49> That's why you combine them. Nobody is saying auth should purely be based on biometric. It's all three: Something I know, AND something I have, AND something I am. If your DNA is compromised, you still have the thing you know and the thing you have to keep you secure.

<comment><USER50> So, they make you write the password down.

Then they take the Yubikey.

Then they take your eyeballs and your fingers.

I'm not so sure I want to encourage them to do #3.

<comment><USER49> I mean, if someone is forcing me to login at gunpoint, I'll gladly oblige - <USER2> need for them to gouge my eye out.

This is not the threat model being used here. This feature is meant to protect you when you forget your yubikey on your laptop while on lunch break, allowing any co-worker from logging in/using the GPG keys stored within.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER51> I am just imagining how insane this would have been if it were released 20 years ago, or ten years ago, or even as recent as five years ago.

</comment><comment><USER52> Meanwhile I just wish I could use my old Yubikey like everyone else. But it seems that outside of walled googlenet there is very low chance for it. It is now second year as yubikey is collecting dust in my drawer. Fuckyou very much google, I really appreciate this.

<comment><USER37> How is it Google's fault that you can't use Yubikeys on non-Google sites?

</comment></comment><comment><USER53> I can't stand fingerprint readers. My skin for whatever reason tends to get only about a 20% success ration over three attempts.

<comment><USER54> I've done a bit of IT support for old folks. People over 70 typically battle to register their fingerprints and get them working on Apple and Samsung devices.

</comment></comment><comment><USER55> Just to remind people who lie behind centrally administered distribution of keys, tokens, the authority can probably always add their thumbs to the prints on the key.

So any belief this implies only your permission-ed access to your work is moot: If its not your computer, you probably don't have an implied right to privacy anyway, and a yubikey with bio isn't going to give you it either.

(maybe a non sequiteur, but some people may be assuming this means your local U2F bearing host is YOUR host, but.. not always)</comment>


Dawson student expelled after finding online security flaws - <AUTHOR> http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2013/01/21/montreal-dawson-college-hack-hamed-al-khabaz.html

<comment><USER2> The discussion is here: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5090007>

Currently #3 on the front page, 447 points, 169 comments.

Here are some other versions of the story that you might like to check out:

* <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5091766>

* <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5092047></comment>


Practical File System Design: The Be File System (1999) - <AUTHOR> http://www.nobius.org/~dbg/practical-file-system-design.pdf?m=1 <comment><USER2> I remember reading this book way back when. It is a great introduction to file system design. HOWEVER, the core thesis of BFS is basically "Let's see what happens when we make a filesystem that is more like a database." The TL;DR of the BeOS experience is that this is in fact a terrific idea, if you don't care about backwards (POSIX) compatibility.

The book is terribly dated though and I'm not sure I would recommend it to anyone except as a historical reference. It lacks much of the latest file system research that has gone into things like ZFS and Btrfs.

If you want to go the BFS-like route, then I recommend just accepting the premise and getting a book or other resource on DBMS design, getting one on modern file system design, and then merging the two yourself.

<comment><USER3> _if you don 't care about backwards (POSIX) compatibility._

...nor overall performance, as the benchmarks in chapter 9 show. Apparently BFS is very good at sequential accesses (but then, so is FAT... which has probably become the most popular filesystem in use, especially in embedded devices) but performs poorly for a lot of other operations.

This book also reaffirms a common adage that books with "theoretical" in their title tend to be very practical, and vice-versa... but then again, it was written at a time when a lot of people were betting on BeOS being The Next Big Thing and they never expected the current dominance of Linux and Windows.

Ultimately, it seems the "keep the filesystem simple and build further abstractions _inside_ files" design has lead to the greatest success, because it's more flexible and allows more interoperability --- building too much "intelligence" into the FS, proprietary or otherwise, makes it harder to exchange data with other systems, whereas you can e.g. move or copy a file containing a relational database between systems and operate on it more easily. Filesystem drivers are usually implemented in the OS kernel, and so it makes sense to keep them minimal from a reliability and security perspective.

<comment><USER4> The fundamental question is: what is the filesystem for? If it's for users to store documents, you want something like BeFS, with slower performance but more features. If it's for programs to persist data, you want something minimal which you can build database libraries on top of. Trying to do both at the time pulls you toward a mediocre middle ground.

Operating systems should really have two separate systems, one for user documents and one for low-level persistence (the former probably being built on top of the latter). Programs needing plain persistent storage shouldn't have to pay for nice features at the document level, and we shouldn't have to compromise the user experience of document browsing to get high-performance persistence.

<comment><USER5> You can look at what Apple does for an example of how you compromise on a higher level than the filesystem. They offer regular file storage (in the file system), a structured object storage API (Core Data, which is really just built ontop of SQLite databases stored in the file system), and an cross- application metadata and search index (Spotlight).

Software that wants to store structured documents without thinking up their own file format can use Core Data, and still get their documents indexed properly. Software that's cross-platform or has to support existing file formats can use regular documents and supply a file metadata/content indexer to Spotlight.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Since the author of BeFS (1999), Dominic Giampaolo, is the lead architect for Apple's APFS (2016), it would be more helpful if there's an article that shows the delta between BeFS and APFS.

In the intervening 17 years, Mr. Giampaolo surely learned new things that invalidated some assumptions in 1999 and/or discovered new demands on file systems that he didn't foresee.

Imo, the intellectual evolution from the vantage point of 2017 & hindsight would be much more interesting than trying to read through a 247 page pdf.

</comment><comment><USER7> HAIKU file system [https://www.haiku- os.org/docs/api/fs_modules.html](https://www.haiku- os.org/docs/api/fs_modules.html)

</comment><comment><USER8> Maybe relevant to see how it affected APFS design decisions due to Be FS developers working on APFS.

I am hoping Apple releases APFS with the xnu 10.13 code drop.

</comment><comment><USER9> A 27-minute presentation: [https://systemswe.love/archive/minneapolis-2017/ivan- richwal...](https://systemswe.love/archive/minneapolis-2017/ivan-richwalski) ; [https://player.vimeo.com/video/209021697](https://player.vimeo.com/video/209021697)

"Metadata Indexes & Queries in the BeOS Filesystem", by Ivan Richwalski, at Systems We Love.

He explains cool features like extended attributes in files, and search queries whose results are updated in real time.

</comment><comment><USER10> Found this mirror: [https://github.com/tpn/pdfs/blob/master/Practical%20File%20S...](https://github.com/tpn/pdfs/blob/master/Practical%20File%20System%20Design%20-%20The%20Be%20Filesystem.pdf)

</comment><comment><USER11> Please put [PDF] in the title.

<comment><USER12> Out of curiosity, why is this still something people desire in a link? Can't any modern browser pretty much open a PDF as quickly easily as a web page?

<comment><USER13> I personally have PDF rendering disabled in browser for security, just as I have JS disabled by default. So no, my browser cannot display a PDF at all.

<comment><USER14> To be fair- if you turn off standard features, you can't complain when you get a sub-optimal experience.

<comment><USER15> PDFs _are_ a sub-optimal experience. Putting [PDF] in the link just saves me from wasting the time of clicking.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> A few years ago, in college, this was a holy grail for our final assignment</comment>


Defending your app from copies and clones - <AUTHOR> https://marco.org/2018/02/22/your-app-was-copied <comment><USER3> "Only assholes get patents."

Marco rubs me the wrong way. Blanket statements like this are not meaningful.

What the post is saying is: there is nothing you can do. At the end of the day it doesn't matter who does it first, it matters who does it best. Do it best and you'll win.

Very clickbaity title. This could have been a tweet (and it was: [https://twitter.com/sandofsky/status/966721199052013568](https://twitter.com/sandofsky/status/966721199052013568))

<comment><USER4> If patents were usefully enforced and practical to obtain, it _would_ matter who files first because that's how patents work.

The $20,000 part of patents (and additional legal fees) are a problem because we are clearly at the point economically where tons of people who need stronger protections will never have the resources to obtain those protections. You can't do that when it's impossible to sell anything for more than 99 cents.

<comment><USER5> And we can't expect everyone to pay more for many of these things when there is so much inequality, lack of wage increases, student debt, etc. etc. etc.

Of course I go ahead and pay $50/year for ulysses or $20 for each Things 3 app, but my sister won't pay $3/m to iCloud on her filled up iPhone nor $5/m to Spotify or Apple Music to listen to music.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> For the longest time now I've always held a bit of bias towards closed-source software, but over time I'm slowly realizing that open source is probably the way to go.

If you look at the world as if it was running on a tech tree in a video game, making closed source technology only forces people to retrace your footsteps(re-research the tech, if you will) or worse, find a better alternative (leaving you and your creation in the dust). By open-sourcing, you effectively stake a flag with your name on it in the tech tree and incentivize people to use your creation as a foundation for future techs. Sure, people will be free to use copies of your work at will, but they still have to give credit to you, and won't be trying to do things differently.

And that's not even mentioning that open-source stuff generally has a PR-boost compared to closed-source. If you make something closed-source, you will always have to worry about the appearance of an open-source competitor. I have seen closed-source stuff be completely eclipsed by open-source alternatives once the latter reached a critical level of quality. I mean think about it: Unreal Engine 4 is open source, would anyone start a closed-source project to compete against it? All the best minds will naturally ask you, 'Why not just work on UE4?' Yes you can fork it, but the public will always turn to the original of the fork unless your fork achieves something really different in a good way.

So in a way, open-source is the most asshole-way you can do things cause it shuts down any idea of a copy/similar alternative to your work.

<comment><USER7> UE4 isn't open source. You get source access with the license but it's quite restrictive on what you can actually do with it. If you tried to setup a competing engine based on a fork of it you would quickly find yourself being sued.

Godot would be an example of an open source game engine.

<comment><USER6> Thanks for the clarification. I believe UE4 is still a good example of how the PR-bias towards anything 'open-source'. All it took was a few headlines with "Unreal" and "open-source" and I naturally grouped it with the likes of Blender and Godot.

<comment><USER7> Right but all that means is that Epic were able to exploit a lack of understanding. Not really that noble or exceptional. There is a PR bias towards open source because it's seen as a selfless act to provide free software. Conflating that with commercial software such as UE4 actually takes away from that since it dupes the unwary.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I was a bit disappointed with the content of the article.

On the style, the generalization "Only assholes get patents" turned me off quickly.

But on the content itself, there wasn't much in there that related to the title of the article "Defending your app from copies and clones": the author talks about copyrights, and trademarks (not patents, because apparently it's only for assholes), but explains how little use it is: am I supposed to be encouraged or discouraged to follow those paths?

Then the rest seems to be an exercise in despair, convincing you that there's nothing you can do anyways and you're screwed.

I ended the read a bit perplexed, as I wasn't able to squeeze any substantific marrow.

<comment><USER9> You obviously did, you just don't like it.

Everything in the article was related to the title, but I think your expectations were wrong. Instead of getting a list of things you can do to protect your app from copies, the author goes through the list of possible tools and explains why they don't really work.

However, this also means you can do the same thing to others without much fear so it really comes down to who can learn, adapt and create more quickly.

<comment><USER8> > You obviously did, you just don't like it.

Not really - It's just that I don't feel like I learned much: I already knew about the challenges he mentions. Whether I like it or not is irrelevant. I was really interested in something "new" or "original" about it. That was my (perhaps misguided) expectation.

> Everything in the article was related to the title, but I think your > expectations were wrong. Instead of getting a list of things you can do to > protect your app from copies, the author goes through the list of possible > tools and explains why they don't really work.

Yes, perhaps I shouldn't have set my expectations from the title "Defending your app from copies and clones", where I thought I was going to learn how to defend my app from copies and clones.

I think that's one reasonable interpretation of the title, although I can see how someone can argue that he never promised he'd give any solutions or original ideas in the title. It could indeed have meant "Defending your app from copies and clones: a lost cause". Those last 3 words I added do make it a better match for the content, don't you think?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> All good points but I would add that you should never make it _easy_ for people to copy valuable things from you if you depend on being unique.

Unfortunately what's easiest for programmers is pretty easy to copy. For example, any ordinary file in an app bundle is dead simple to copy (and unfortunately the most straightforward APIs for using data from code will assume that files are plainly located in the bundle, which I always felt was a bit of a design oversight).

One fairly low-effort defense against copying is to use your program to reassemble valuable data from parts. For example, instead of having easily- stolen complete files in your bundle, store a variety of bits and pieces that only the program knows how to assemble correctly. You can even create a technically-corrupt/invalid binary file and then have your program restore the bits that you know you removed. Obviously this is an extra pain to do but if you really need to reduce the chance of losing to a competitor then it may be worth the trouble. (Note that this isn't foolproof either, as clever people can still figure out what a program actually does; it's just way better than doing nothing.)

</comment><comment><USER10> This reminds me of when the game 2048 came out, and became hugely popular. It was mostly a clone of the game "Threes", released a few months prior, which while popular was less so because it was iOS only whereas 2048 could be played freely in the browser.

Here's the developer's statement at the time:

[http://asherv.com/threes/threemails/](http://asherv.com/threes/threemails/)

The press and public opinion was mostly on the side of the Threes developer, perhaps because they were already fairly well respected in the indie game dev community; see for instance

[https://www.wired.com/2014/05/threes-game- design](https://www.wired.com/2014/05/threes-game-design)

I mostly agree with Marco's advice; but if you have your peers' trust and approval, calling out your copycats seems like it might work in your favor (by bringing attention to your product for people who only know the copy). Or rather, let your hardcore fans call out the copy cats for you, and be brutally candid in your reaction - the devlog format of the Threes developers' response was perfect for that.

</comment><comment><USER11> > Only assholes get patents. They can be a huge PR mistake, and they're a > fool's errand: even if you get one ($20,000+ later), you can't afford to use > it against any adversary big enough to matter.

Okay - Google patented their search. It's enabled them to stop the whole industry. Lets not go too far.

<comment><USER12> Is a sucessful asshole still an asshole?

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> > _You can publicly call out a copy, but you won't come out of it looking > good...These disputes are best kept private, or not fought at all_

Interesting take, considering how Marco has called out both Pocket (formerly Read It Later) and Readability as having copied features that he claims to have created first.

" _Weiner systematically copied almost every major Instapaper feature over the first few years of Instapaper's existence_ ", from [https://marco.org/2013/02/21/the-first-read-later- service](https://marco.org/2013/02/21/the-first-read-later-service)

and

" _Over the next few months, they continued adding mostly Instapaper-like features to their service._ ", from [https://marco.org/2011/11/16/readability](https://marco.org/2011/11/16/readability)

Perhaps his recent comments reflect how well his prior callouts were received?

EDIT: curious to know why this was downvoted. It wasn't meant as a dig at all—I was pointing out that Marco has experience with callouts and might have relevant expertise that many people lack. I would personally be very interested to hear his experience went dealing with those issues.

<comment><USER14> Don't know how much it will help, but I upvoted you.

I used to like Marco, but after following him a while and noticing inconsistencies of principle like this, it got to me. (That, and when he said in a podcast that he didn't use SQL joins when building Tumblr because he doesn't like them. Trying to think about how he could have possibly accomplished that makes me shudder.) I can give him the benefit of the doubt that perhaps his perspectives have changed with age or experience, though.

All that said, I upvoted the OP too, because as much as I don't like the guy, he's not wrong here.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> > Defending your __________ from copies and clones

Fill in the blank, and the same lessons apply.

Any idea, project, business, app, website, article, podcast, TV show, media production, procedure, product, art, creation, etc are frequently copied and cloned. And he's right, ultimately nobody cares.

Sometimes a copy or clone is better than an original. Sometimes a copy or clone is much worse, but ends up successful because of positioning, luck, marketing, or savvy.

Perhaps it's better to think of the risk of being copied or cloned as part of the risk of business and creation. It just comes with the territory.

</comment><comment><USER16> "Only assholes get patents"... Everyone would get and enforce patents if it weren't so hard and expensive to obtain them... I think saying don't get software patents is terrible advice...

Of course, don't go and patent a mediocre interaction or technique, but definitely, pursue a patent if you have worked hard on researching and developing something that is key to your business and that could be used by a better established and wealthier competitor to take a market advantage.

<comment><USER17> Would they? The few times I've had a conversation with people in software on the topic, the conclusion has been they shouldn't exist. At all.

I'd venture to suggest that most software patents are the obvious way of doing something. Even having read some attempts to justify them I see no merits in patents for XOR cursors, online auctions or shopping carts.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> If one of your potential exit strategies is acquisition, patenting your technology makes sense. Even if he's right that a startup can't afford to defend it's patents, if Amazon/Facebook/Google/Apple acquires you your startup is potentially 10x more valuable to them because they can definitely afford to defend the patent.

</comment><comment><USER19> I stopped following Marco years ago because I didn't like the tone of his writing, but this wasn't anything like what I remembered, or what I was prepared to read based on other comments here. It was clear, well-written, and not incendiary like I expected.

</comment><comment><USER20> I guess Marco really really LOVES assholes. His whole career revolves around Apple/iOS, a company legendary for it's frivolous patents & history of enforcing them vindictively when the competition's execution poses a threat.

How are copyrights or trademarks ANY different? Together, they constitute essential tools in the knowledge/service economy. Demonizing patents but favoring the other two is ignorance on Marco's behalf - no one wants frivolous patents clogging the patent office, courts or legal departments of companies.

Apt advice would be to carefully research recent verdicts and legislation around patents, and only apply for ones that merit the designation (yes - <USER2> is very subjective).

<comment><USER21> Maybe it was just me, but I got the sense the target audience of his piece was individual or small teams. Hence, "even if you get one ($20,000+ later), you can't afford to use it against any adversary big enough to matter."

These comments citing Apple and Google with their effective use of patents as some sort of counter argument seem to have missed the mark. Those guys are certainly able to afford $20k, and they can certainly afford to take on any adversary big enough to matter.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> There is no opinion of him on Apple implementing features from third party apps into it's platform. Would be interesting since he's such a big Apple fan.

<comment><USER23> Remember that he also wrote Instapaper, the key feature of which was copied by Apple: [https://marco.org/2011/04/30/lion-safari-reading- list](https://marco.org/2011/04/30/lion-safari-reading-list)

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> Only assholes go around trying to enforce patents, especially as a business model. But if you don't get any patents, you'll be really vulnerable to these assholes

> Only assholes get patents. They can be a huge PR mistake, and they're a > fool's errand: even if you get one ($20,000+ later), you can't afford to use > it against any adversary big enough to matter.

<comment><USER25> I don't think I would have a problem with patents except for two things:

* the patent office seems to have a policy of grant-by-default

* the term is way too long for software patents

Grant 3-5 year patents and I think most of my objections would disappear.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> Even if the content of this article is 99% my opinion, it's written in a trashy way and makes me want to disagree with it.

I'm going to educate the public to avoid macro.org

</comment><comment><USER27> Article body completely fails to address the task set forth in the title. Don't waste your time.</comment>


Artificial-Intelligence Breakthrough? "The Neo-Darwinian Theory of the Mind" - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/conjecture-magazine/the-neo-darwinian-theory-of-the-mind-d84c0bcc6485 <comment><USER2> You will find no breakthrough there. It is just a very long philosophicalish stream of consciousness revolving about a thought, that everybody fails at AI because they forgot about replication.

The examples in the article are totally meaningless. An idea is _not_ better accepted by some _because_ it replicates better in their brains. That's a tautology.

<comment><AUTHOR> > The examples in the article are totally meaningless.

Which ones and why are they meaningless?

> An idea is _not_ better accepted by some _because_ it replicates better in > their brains. That's a tautology.

I'm not sure it's a tautology, as the same phenomenon could be explained (poorly) through updating of "credences," for example, or other explanations. In any case, if you think that acceptance of an idea _must_ involve replication (or is indeed synonymous with successful replication at the expense of rival ideas), isn't that an argument _in favor_ of the theory?

<comment><USER2> It an argument against wasting your time reviewing a "theory", because if the author failed to spot a simple tautology, what does it say about him being logical in the rest of the work?

Especially with the extraordinary claims.

<comment><AUTHOR> You didn't answer my question about which claims you find meaningless and why. But now you've changed to calling the claims "extraordinary," which is quite different from "meaningless"\--one might argue a claim couldn't be both at the same time. Which is it? Or which claims are which and why?

Btw, neo-Darwinism generally has been criticized for being tautological (the "better replicators spread better" stuff). The article even addresses that. Do you find neo-Darwinism generally to be a logical mistake because it contains this well-known tautology? Or do you only find the tautology problematic in this particular instance because it's a new application of neo-Darwinism?

If you found logical mistakes in the rest of the article, I'd be interested in hearing them.

<comment><USER2> I did not know about neo-Darwinism prior to your comment. I was addressing specific statement.

Because of your request, I skimmed through parts of the article again, and again only found tautology: "Why do some people believe some things over others? Because some ideas spread through their minds better than others."

I can not claim it is illogical, but because it is highly tautological, it is very useless, and I don't wish to spend any more of time on it.

<comment><AUTHOR> I'll respect your wish not to spend any more time on it, and will leave you with two closing comments:

1\. Like I said, the article is aware of and _addresses_ the tautological nature of neo-Darwinism generally.

2\. The part you quoted is not useless because, if true, it refutes other (en- vogue but false) theories about "reasons for belief," such as higher/lower numeric credences, stronger neuronal connections, etc.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


'New York Times' Finally Closes World's Most Obvious Hole in Paywall - <AUTHOR> http://mashable.com/2013/02/12/new-york-times-paywall-hack/ <comment><AUTHOR> Opening a new Incognito window still works</comment>


Everlane Closed on Black Friday - <AUTHOR> https://www.everlane.com/black-friday <comment><USER2> This is cool, I suppose. But there's a big missed opportunity here: I have no idea what or who Everlane is and there's not even a link to an About page there.

<comment><USER3> Looks like they sell designer items at low cost: <https://www.everlane.com/about>

<comment><USER4> They are able to provide cheaper pricing by avoiding the costs associated with physical retail outlets. That is their pitch, anyway.

Everlane model: Cost to make shirt + profit for everlane + shipping -> total cost

Conventional clothing model: Cost to make shirt + profit for manufacturer + shipping + cost of operating retail outlet + profit for retail outlet -> total cost

They are still outsourcing their manufacturing so the above isn't completely accurate, but it's close.

This is the future of the clothing business and I for one am very happy about it.

<comment><USER5> It'll be interesting to see how they will handle scaling. Selling T-Shirts is easy - what happens when other factors come in? Neck sizes, different size standardization (UK vs US), measurements, units/scales, suits, pants, female vs male. It's a whole can of worms and there are startups dedicated just to solve this measurement issue for clothing.

<comment><USER6> >It'll be interesting to see how they will handle scaling. Selling T-Shirts is easy

As someone who is a non-standard size, I hope that new business models provide a much greater range of clothing sizes. Offering three or four sizes of T-shirts is profoundly ridiculous. They will only fit a small percentage of people well. I look forward to the day when you enter your height, neck, chest and waist measurement, specify your desired style of fit (slim/casual/loose) and they find the closest out of (perhaps) 20 sizes and send it to you.

As a thin, tall person, it's virtually impossible to buy clothes that fit properly (even T-shirts). If someone provided a way to buy custom fit essentials, or even just a granular range of sizes, at internet-margin prices, I would sign up tomorrow.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I think this is really cool from a business standpoint. It reinforces their image and generates more curiosity and long-term respect than a sale could ever do. This is slightly reminiscent of Patagonia's "Don't buy this jacket" ad that went out last year, which I also in large part respected as a marketing effort and culture statement.

With this message, the "Sign up" link is the most attractive thing on the page. I'm guessing they'll get more press and more signups today than otherwise, and those organic signups will generate sales from e-mail campaigns. Really smart.

</comment><comment><USER8> Whoops, blunder. The move piqued my curiosity, I signed up.. got a 'confirm email address' email, but the confirm link was redirected to the anti-black- friday page...

<comment><USER9> The same happened to me, but the "join now" link was gone, suggesting it worked.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Nice PR move. I have no reason to doubt their sincerity, but I had never heard of them before and this put them on my radar. As a consumer, their business model looks compelling - <https://www.everlane.com/how>

</comment><comment> MatiasPenas-_- If you want to know more about everlane check the TWiST #253. Interview with Michael Preysman of Everlane <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6kvIPiez54>

</comment><comment><USER11> Will be a great way to explain why their graph didn't have a crazy holiday spike... but feels like a missed opportunity to me, since they aren't collecting emails or doing much to market the bigger idea behind Everlane on this page. People are fickle, at least capture enough info to get them to come back.

</comment><comment><USER12> I agree with the sentiment on Black Friday, and I generally like Everlane (their t-shirts are genuinely fantastic, to the point that I'd be happy never buying any other t-shirt again), but there's something about the way this is presented that sticks in my mouth. Feels a bit self-righteous, I guess.

</comment><comment><USER13> Everyone is talking about PR yet no one has mentioned our problem with consumerism. See the #buynothing campaign if you haven't. It's an interesting perspective:

<http://www.storyofstuff.org/blackfriday/>

 _I pledge to skip the mall and stay home with friends and family this Black Friday. Instead of spending money on things I don't need, I will spend my time with the people that I love._

</comment><comment><USER14> Brilliant. This gets people talking and wondering what Everlane is.

I'm not someone that cares about a brand but I am someone who cares about quality to a somewhat obsessive level. I love my Everlane shirts and the backback I got from them is rugged and comfortable with just the right amount of pockets and storage. When I return to SF in February I would really like to visit their office and learn more about the company.

<comment><USER15> This is Nan, I'm an engineer @everlane. Stop by any time you are in town, and I would love to have coffee.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> There model sounds very familiar to the From Holden KS campaign we saw recently. Interesting marketing move though, I guess they probably aren't missing too much since there are so many retailers competing to be in the fray today.

</comment><comment><USER17> This is fantastic. I haven't picked anything up from Everlane in probably two months. Almost forgot about them. Now I'll be looking forward to when their site comes back online for me to make a choice or two tomorrow!

</comment><comment><USER18> I like that when you "view source" they have their logo in ascii art with the following "work at everlane - bmFuQGV2ZXJsYW5lLmNvbQ==" ... if you base64 decode the string you get someone's email address

</comment><comment><USER19> Great marketing tactic to get people to buy and consume more later on.

</comment><comment><USER20> Have had a pleasant experience shopping there in the past. Above average quality for the price but very limited selection and styles even.

</comment><comment><USER21> PR Achievement Unlocked!</comment>


Show HN: selling college shirts for fun and profit - <AUTHOR> http://clubhillman.com

<comment><AUTHOR> At my university, the main library is called Hillman Library. As a joke, students call it "Club Hillman". It's a pretty popular term and has been going on for a few years now. During finals week, the library is packed full, and going there becomes a big social event.

So, a friend and I decided to capitalize on it. I designed the shirt and build the website over a week/weekend, and since launching Wednesday night, we've sold about 20 shirts. We're aiming for 200 by the 26th (so they're ready for finals week).

We're marketing both online (Reddit worked really well) and in person (putting up fliers everywhere around campus.)</comment>


Path Closes $25 Million Funding, Led by Indonesia's Bakrie Global Group - <AUTHOR> http://recode.net/2014/01/10/exclusive-path-completes-25-million-funding-led-by-indonesias-bakrie-global-group/?utm_source=rc_twitter <comment><USER3> Funding tip for failing startups: when all the domestic investors have cottoned on to the fact that you're full of shit, just go abroad to find someone who's gullible and has a lot of money.

<comment><USER4> Funding tip for smart startups who recognise that their target demographic is shifting: Find investors in regions where your traction and growth figures peak. Having insight in SE Asia and Indonesia in particular, their familiarity, engagement and loyalty with Path (and Twitter) is incredible and such an announcement shouldn't be a surprise to anyone with knowledge of and interest in SE Asia and Indonesia in particular.

<comment><USER5> So far, no outside/foreign social networking site have successfully exploit SE Asia even after their explosive growth in that region.

Friendster, dead.

Multiply, dead.

Plurk, soon to be dead (or dead already).

There's a big boom in Asia in general that is a known fact. But when it comes to SE Asia, the profit margin is small in USD unless you're operating under the local currency (i.e.: have your office there, do your business there, etc).

If the HQ is in SF where everybody lives and breathes SF bubble and not in SE Asia or Indonesia, you won't have much insight other than some generic dataset (country X loves to post pictures, for example).

Web-apps that make money tend to be E-commerce sites ([http://tiket.com](http://tiket.com)) that have complex affiliates behind it.

Eyeballs type of apps (web, mobile, anything) generate lifestyle business, not Facebook level IPO.

The real winner is the founder who can flip his/her company for multi- million-(usa)-dollars to the highest bidder (typically the conglomerate family).

PS: Oddly enough, SE Asia is where the phone companies peaked and die. Nokia, Blackberry, the pattern is striking!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Such negativity in this thread. Do we all love to hate someone who is working hard on their startup just because they are jerks[1]? Even if the CEO is a jerk, they have a nicely designed product with a seemingly noble goal, with a talented pool of people working behind the scenes, working towards their objectives.

Sure, they have their bad moments (pun intended), being caught uploading users' address books, spamming user's friends with invites and perhaps paying for downloads. No one's perfect and some of us sometimes do try to stretch things a little to see how far we can go. Don't we?

I remember the joy I felt when they released Path 2.0 and I chanced upon it. The cover photos, pulling down the timeline to see more of the cover photo, the smooth springly animation they use for the actions button, the gorgeous sign up screens. Most of these concepts have been utilized in some form in other apps now. These people create good work.

We should be rooting for them, not cursing them.

PS: Just a fan of the work behind it, not friends with anyone involved in the company. Just someone exercising a little bit of common sense and empathy. PSS: and to those who want to know, just look at their app in the various app stores and you would already know how much they charge for stickers and subscription. No need to predict or guess.

[1] _Seem_ to be a jerk, according to a single interview. And according to [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7039043](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7039043) and write-ups else where, PG seems to be sexist (and racist?). Do we just take things people say as the whole truth, at face value?

<comment><USER7> I've done business and personally interacted with Dave Morin on several occasions. He's not mean to your face, but he is a little too smug for my tastes. His real problem is he lacks rigor and is not a fundamentally honest person. He glosses over the details and doesn't follow up well. He claims something's going to happen to avoid looking bad, and then it doesn't--or it takes forever. For example, Path has been claiming they were about to raise a $50m round for what, a year now?

Dave is a celebrity CEO. He wants to be a celebrity, and maybe a designer, and being CEO of Path is his means towards that end. The best thing for Path would be to bring in a fully capable COO to run the show. This may require eventually transitioning Dave out of the CEO seat to promote the COO if they are able to turn things around.

In contrast, I've only interacted with PG a couple of times, but I've read some of his articles. I think PG does try to be an honest person, and sometimes that doesn't come out right, especially in sound bite form. PG is definitely smug too, but it's an intellectual-light smugness that he backs up with explanations and evidence. Whereas Dave's is a celebrity smugness that he backs up with false promises that he doesn't take seriously.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> I guess I'm part of the small minority who love Path. It's my favorite app, I use it almost every day. I use it strictly with my immediate family - <USER2> brothers, sister, their spouses and my parents. I barely have time for Twitter, I don't use Facebook, but I use Path. Their pitch about deeper connections and about being real and authentic rings true to how we use it. I'm quite disappointed to watch them flounder.

<comment><USER9> I really really want to like this app more -- I love the journaling implications, and the design just makes me smile every time I open it -- but its vision will be its downfall:

1) The "smaller, tighter" social network just diminishes its viral component by design 2) The mobile only approach means I can't type out a longer post or entry about my day 3) Lack of viable monetization options means I can't trust my data long-term with them. 4) Lack of non-people "Paths" \-- i.e. I really like to follow certain companies/organizations on Facebook because I can keep up to date with what's going on. For example, I follow a few yoga studios on FB because they're always discussing new classes, teachers, class changes, etc. Say what you want about FB & Twitter, but they know how to craft addicting news feeds that I consume like water.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> What an utter waste of capital.

<comment><USER11> Can you explain your reasoning behind this?

<comment><USER12> Because Path is almost certainly in a death spiral, based based on the layoffs and talent exodus. Because their CEO is Dave Morin, who hasn't done himself any favors by sounding like a huge douchebag [1]. Because they're a social media app on the wane, which is as good as a dead social media app.

[http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/my-phone/2013/03/dave- mori...](http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/my-phone/2013/03/dave-morin-path- facebook-apple?currentPage=all)

<comment><USER3> [http://jesuschristsiliconvalley.tumblr.com/post/46539276780/...](http://jesuschristsiliconvalley.tumblr.com/post/46539276780/a-cunt- and-his-iphone)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I wanted to like Path but then I heard about HeyDay and I didn't care anymore.

[https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/heyday- journaling.-reimagine...](https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/heyday- journaling.-reimagined./id738164919?mt=8)

</comment><comment><USER14> Hail Mary round.

<comment><USER15> [http://techcrunch.com/2013/07/16/path-is- raising-50m-at-a-50...](http://techcrunch.com/2013/07/16/path-is- raising-50m-at-a-500m-valuation/)

Definitely. They were looking For $50 Million and a lead investor in July.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> The Bakrie group also owns a wireless telecommunication company in Indonesia [1]. Apparently this is a strategic move to increase wireless data usage and number of subscribers [2].

[1] [http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/snapshot/s...](http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/snapshot/snapshot.asp?ticker=BTEL:IJ) [2] [http://www.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF8&sl=auto&tl=en&...](http://www.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF8&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Finet.detik.com%2Fread%2F2014%2F01%2F11%2F181640%2F2464973%2F319%2Fduit- bakrie-di-path-bisa-hidupi-esia-setahun%3F991104topnews)

<comment><USER5> As far as I know, wireless data usage in Indonesia is "unlimited" (with double quotes...). The usage and billing are different if you compare it with the USA Bell/AT&T money-sucking operation.

In Indonesia, $15/month == check e-mail, surf facebook, whatsapp/line/kakaotalk all-you-can-eat buffet.

You don't need to shell $25M to make Path exclusive on your network. Even if you do, the Math just doesn't add up.

Speaking of Bakrie group, financially, they're not doing well lately: [http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2013/11/09/bakrie- telecom...](http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2013/11/09/bakrie-telecom- downgraded-after-missing-payment.html)

Having said that, I do root the deal and really hope both sides can pull it off because I want to see (other) creative ideas to make things like this work in SE Asia.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> In Path's position what would you do with this capital?

<comment><USER18> Pay back the original Path investors $25m.

Pray that the money isn't connected to Suharto[1]'s old boys network and never take a holiday in Asia again.

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suharto](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suharto)

<comment><USER5> Money isn't related for sure. Bakrie is on their own.

<comment><USER18> I don't know but it looks like there are connections...

[http://jakartainformer.com/96869/ghost-of-suharto-gives- life...](http://jakartainformer.com/96869/ghost-of-suharto-gives-life-to-his- old-political-party/)

*Indonesia's autocratic former President Suharto left office in disgrace, his political empire and the economy in ruin, but 15 years later, his old ruling party hopes nostalgia for his legacy will sweep it back into power.

Polls show the Golkar Party, which Suharto created as the parliamentary rubber stamp for his 32-year hardline rule, is running around second place.

...Aburizal Bakrie, 67, head of Golkar and the party's presidential candidate next year."

<comment><USER5> Golkar had been up for grab after Suharto's power diminished significantly.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Bakrie is one of the big players in the politic of Indonesia. It makes sense for him to try to control the (maybe 2nd) most used social media platform in Indo. He probably expects to have the same influence as what Obama 2008 digital campaign team had.

<comment><USER5> Being an investor for Path (and potentially have some say to their roadmap) is not the same with Obama 2008 digital campaign team. I doubt Abu Bakrie can utilize Path (since it's a close/private social network) the way Obama team did with social media back then and most recently.

This is Bakrie VC group, not Bakrie himself. More like his sons/daughters (second generation) using Bakrie's wealth, not him.

This is more like "my cars are better than yours" among the rich in Jakarta. Follow the startup scene there and you'll realize a pattern.

The richest family in Indonesia not too long ago bought kaskus.co.id (one of the most trafficked website in Indonesia) for $60M (rumour) and I'm almost sure the ROI is Mission Impossible (^_^).

It's more "I've got lots of money, gotta spend some somewhere...".

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> Oops.</comment>


Obama pledges Net neutrality laws if elected president (2007) - <AUTHOR> http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/obama-pledges-net-neutrality-laws-if-elected-president/ <comment><USER2> If you want to know what kind of person you'll end up with _after_ you elect someone to office, pay attention to the negative propaganda coming from their opponent _before_ they are elected. That's my new method for evaluating who I support.

(If you tried to raise any concern about Obama's motives or ability to carry through on his promises in 2007 you were labeled a backwards, change-hating racist, either literally or at least tacitly in the minds of his supporters.)

Why is his stance on net neutrality even newsworthy when he's presiding over a security state that is in the middle of ripping the 4th Amendment to shreds?

<comment><USER3> there was quite a bit of negative propaganda that implied that he was a secret socialist muslim antichrist non-American from Kenya.

obviously you shouldn't pay attention to the worst of what's levied against someone, but where do you draw the line?

His opponents (i.e. Republicans) thought that net neutrality is government meddling in the free market. How would we have predicted this in this case?

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Obama, like most politicians Obama likes to lie, a lot. That said I don't completely blame him on this since it's not his jurisdiction. Could he have done more to support net neutrality? of course, but it's not something that was directly under his control. Obama has broken a lot of other promises over far more serious things that were directly in his control so this is a drop in the bucket in my opinion.

<comment><USER5> This is what really bothers me about presidential elections. The candidate goes around making promises they KNOW they don't have the ability to follow through on. This works because most voters don't realize what the president can and cannot do.

<comment><USER6> I'd say that it goes beyond "this works". It's actively _required_ for Presidential candidates to make promises they can't conceivably keep, because the voting public greatly overestimates the President's power and they _demand_ it.

This doesn't excuse deliberately impossible promise-making, of course. But it means that whoever gets elected is going to have a bunch of impossible promises on his record, because anyone who doesn't make them won't win.

<comment><USER7> So democracy comes down to "pick the one with the lies you like the most".

<comment><USER8> I would rephrase that as "Pick the one who will, by your best guess, cause the least damage". Leviathan is, and has always been, a matter of the least possible evil.

Case in point, I'm pretty sure Mitt Romney would have waltzed into a cave in Afghanistan and set off an atomic bomb. He was _that_ obnoxious _. At least Obama seems to be half decent at getting_ less* impressionable young minds soul-searching for their vocation to find "Kill Americans" the obvious choice.

So Obama it was, drones and all.

* Yes, their were no Atomic Bombs in Afghanistan, but let's not let the facts get in the way of a good story.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> This is the worst kind of HN political story: the kind in which technology is a fig leaf for a discussion whose only substantive content can be about the nature of campaign promises. In other words: pure, distilled politics.

I flagged this and hope others do too.

<comment><USER8> I disagree. This is about breaking a very particular kind of campaign promise, namely one that directly affects the interests of Hacker News readers as a group. In other words, we already are political, simply by existing. The article doesn't go beyond that kind of politicalness.

<comment><USER10> > This is about breaking a very particular kind of campaign promise

Except insofar as the promise can have been read to be an implicit promise to assume dictatorial powers and impose laws on net neutrality by fiat over the resistance of Congress, I'm not sure how its about breaking a promise. Obama _did_ seek net neutrality laws in his first year in office, and his appointees to the FCC have _repeatedly_ instituted net neutrality regulations, only to have them turned back by the courts. And are, by their own statements, preparing to do so again.

Yeah, there's anonymous-sourced rumors that the new draft would expressly allow something that most people would see as contrary to net neutrality -- rumors that the FCC Chair has expressly denied. The actual proposal will be up for public review in a short period, and we'll all be able to intelligently discuss its actual contents rather than reacting to rumor then.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> My question to Americans is this: Can you trust elected officials to make due on their promises they make when they run?

<comment><USER12> Not to say politicians don't lie (Obama included), but they also change their minds.

<comment><USER13> now that's something a politician would say

<comment><USER14> Sounds like something Keynes would say too. And anyone else who is able to change their answers when the inputs change...

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> And, in fact, Obama _did_ push Net neutrality laws in office, and the FCC under Obama has passed net neutrality regulations several times (only to be reversed by the courts) and is, per their Chair's statement, getting ready to do so _again_.

The only indication of any "reversal" is unsubstantiated reports by anonymous sources about the specific content of the draft that was to be circulated that have been denied emphatically by the FCC Chair.

</comment><comment><USER15> It's probably easiest just to redefine "net neutrality" to mean "whatever the FCC comes up with" which seems to be their current strategy.

</comment><comment><USER16> I really, really, really hope Net Neutrality is brought up in just a few weeks when Obama hosts a fund-raiser at Y Combinator.

[http://www.scribd.com/doc/219461164/Obama-YC- invite](http://www.scribd.com/doc/219461164/Obama-YC-invite)

That said, I'm doubtful.

</comment><comment><USER8> We ought to let that slide since he totally delivered in lots of other areas like closing Guantanamo, getting out of Afghanistan, and repealing the (Lock- up-a-)Patriot Act.</comment>


Google group for HN people in Bangalore - <AUTHOR> Hi friends,
    niyazpk has created a google group of HN people in Bangalore: http://groups.google.com/group/bangalore-hn-meetup
    If you are interested in meeting up fellow HNers in Bangalore, please join the group.<p>A bit of history: I found out about niyazpk through one of his HN submissions. When I figured he was in Bangalore, I asked him if we could meet. He generalized the problem and created the google group. <comment><USER2> Clickable: <http://groups.google.com/group/bangalore-hn-meetup>

Please let us know if you know of some nice place where we can meet. I have absolutely no idea how many people we can expect for the meetup, but hopefully we can get a good idea based on the response to this post.

</comment><comment><USER3> A similar one for delhi (NCR)

<http://groups.google.com/group/delhi-hn-meetup>

Lets plan a meetup :)

</comment><comment><USER4> Thanks for creating a Google group for HNers in Bangalore. If there is a meetup anytime soon, will there be any specific agenda, or will it be general?

<comment><AUTHOR> I was thinking of meeting this coming Saturday or Sunday.

Agenda...well my secret agenda is to convince someone to join me in what I am doing, or get convinced about what someone else is doing! :)

<comment><USER5> If you're interested we could meet one-on-one for coffee or beer sometime. I'm aggressively trying to network and find a co-founder or a project as well :) My contact information is available through my profile.

<comment><USER6> Same here. Strong need to meetup and find cofounders, partners, etc

<comment><USER5> Email me, I'm sure you can come along as well when Vivek and I meet on saturday.

Suggestion: make your contact information available on your HN profile.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, sure.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Just created one for Mumbai too: <http://groups.google.com/group/mumbai-hn/>

<comment><AUTHOR> Chal padee hai ek leher....gaon gaon aur sheher sheher!

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> I'm in Bangalore as well. Not very familiar with places to hangout/meet at; however, will be glad to meet up if something interesting can happen.

</comment><comment><USER9> Guess I would put in my offer HN here since no one took me on this offer last time, and might be better suited to Indian HN readers.

<http://apps.ycombinator.com/item?id=1846545>

</comment><comment><USER10> Are HNers from Mysore welcome? ;)

<comment><USER11> living up to Mysoreans reputation for being polite. i see :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> I created a general forum a while back.

<http://groups.google.com/group/hackernewsindia>

</comment><comment><USER12> Anyone from Pune here? It's my hometown and I visit at least once a year. I'd love to meet some HNers when I'm there next.

<comment><USER13> Here's the group for Pune.

<http://groups.google.com/group/hnpune>

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> We can meet at Jaaga too - <http://jaaga.in>

</comment><comment><USER4> Amazing! There are active HNers in India too!

</comment><comment><USER15> Anyone from Ahmedabad/Gandhinagar? I would love to organize a meetup here.</comment>


Interactively explore millions of tweets with the MapD GPU-powered database - <AUTHOR> http://www.mapd.com/blog/2016/03/08/mapd-tweetmap/ <comment><USER2> I guess I'm a bit confused.. it looks like MapD is a company, but I can't find an actual product to download (if it's OSS), or pricing to buy (if it's not).

All I see is a link to the whitepaper, which requests contact info. Is there anywhere to get information on the actual product itself?

<comment><USER3> Hi jwcrux, you can find more info on our website ([http://www.mapd.com](http://www.mapd.com)) and more specifically about the product here ([http://www.mapd.com/product](http://www.mapd.com/product)). In general, MapD is sold as licensed software but we sell to everyone from enterprise to startups, both on premise and in the cloud so if its of interest please write us at email@example.com.

<comment><USER4> I think the confusion may stem from the MapD logo on the story page linking to mapd.com/blog/ rather than mapd.com as would be more typical for a commercial interest.

Looking at the product page, is MapD hosted or do customers build their own servers?

<comment><USER3> Good point - yes the main website is at www.mapd.com and tells more about our product.

Customers can buy off-the-shelf GPU servers from Supermicro, Dell or HP with 2-8 GPUs or alternatively run on IBM Softlayer or Amazon AWS.

<comment><USER5> A good habit with blogs is to have the logo redirect to the main website when on the homepage of the blog (instead of redirecting to the homepage of the blog itself)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> OP here. You can find the actual live demo at [http://www.mapd.com/demos/tweetmap](http://www.mapd.com/demos/tweetmap).

<comment><USER6> Its not working for me. type a search term and nothing happens

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> It's interesting this post didn't get more upvotes. I used to work for a company and did location based social data analysis and know how difficult to process it if coordinates included. I'm really impressed the work done here. Great job in all aspects.

</comment><comment><USER8> It seems that the demo has some problem with Firefox browser. I couldn't make it work :(

UPDATE: Ok it works fine. probably it was not a browser problem but the demo in general.

Anyway it looks impressive!

</comment><comment><USER9> How do you get past the rate limiting twitter has?</comment>


If we are in a tech bubble, how can I protect myself? - <AUTHOR> So there has been some noise around if there is a tech bubble or not. I am not arguing if there is one or not, nor interested in that discussion anymore.
If there  is a tech bubble, how can I protect myself? That is the question.
 I am developer who has worked mostly in small businesses and startups, with a master in computer engineering. I am not the best developer there is, but not a terrible one either.
 Should I move to a larger company? Start my own company away from investment? Just save money and hope for the best?
Thanks! <comment><USER2> Save money. 6 months expenses is a good rule of thumb.

Network (which really means just keep in touch with folks you have worked with or met).

At your current employment situation, keep your ear to the ground. You don't need to move to a big company (they have layoffs too) but you want to be aware of what is happening.

Ask your boss questions about the business, and do your own research too. If your company is "default dead" then ask how you can help make it "default alive".

Cut your unneeded expenses.

Start a company if you have the drive to so, don't worry about the macroeconomic climate.

Source: reading, living through the 2000 and 2008 recessions as a developer.

<comment><AUTHOR> Surviving through the 2000 one must have been a hard one, although it picked up fast ;) What were the signs? What could you see at the time that made sense to you that was something wrong? Or at the time you never felt anything was wrong, business was just really good. After the disaster happens everyone has good theories about the causes, but before no one really remembers to look to obvious signs which transcend how the economics are going, like why there is so much people getting so much money although their knowledge doesn't support their business. How can a tech business be built by someone that is non tech (or even averse to it), to make a business do you only need a good talk and gut, or do you actually need to know about the business.

<comment><USER2> Ha, hindsight is 20/20, as they say. I guess I would say that the voracious hiring, the dependency on other startups for revenue, the grand plans(an office in Londow and one in Singapore!), the hiring of high level executives that didn't seem to add value, the grand renovation (we had a custom built climbing wall in our building... was just got show), and later, the hamhandedness of the layoffs were all signs.

Of course it was a different world back then because the hardware and software were a much larger portion of spend for internet companies. Signs may be different now.

That said, "History may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

[https://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:History](https://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:History)

<comment><AUTHOR> Exactly... I'm looking for the rhymes! :D

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Make yourself a rainy day fund, 6-12 months of living expenses. Make sacrafices to make that happen. This puts you in a position of power when you do have to look for a new job, you don't have to be desperate to take the first crappy low-paying thing that comes along.

Never consider equity 'compensation' at non-public companies. If the job didn't include the equity would you accept? If not, pass or negotiate more cash. In good times, only one out of 10 of those stock option agreements will be anything more than birdcage liners.

And, as a developer, there are parts of the codebase that are unglamorous but crutial to the company. Adopt those parts that others don't want to work on. Be the go-to (crutial) guy for those parts of the code. When the time comes for cuts you'll be indispensable.

Source: went traveling the world on my rainy day fund in the 2000 crash.

<comment><AUTHOR> traveling during the bad times seems like the perfect plan

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Probably by getting out of the silicon valley bubble. Work for 'normal' companies that are actually trying to make the world better instead of building the millionth useless social media platform. Choose companies that aren't overvalued 100 times their actual worth (so don't work for Uber, Snapchat or any of those companies with valuations in the higher Billions range, without actually making any substantial profit).

<comment><USER5> Well, Uber in particular has a _huge_ profit. But other than that, I agree.

<comment><USER6> Uber has huge _revenue_. They have failed to generate a single cent of profit though.

<comment><USER5> Ah, yes, sorry. Still, nearly $2B revenue and funneling most of it into trying to break into the Chinese market; I don't think they're doing badly at all.

<comment><USER7> One of the things about the last bubble was that revenue without profits did not save anybody. That's not to say Uber will do poorly if there is some sort of bubble pop, but profits and revenue are not at all the same thing, and bubbles bursting have a habit of reminding us of that.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Saving money is never a bad thing and is solid advice. But honestly I think it is a little basic for what you are asking.

Having lived through the dot come bust and other economic failures I have found that making sure you stay valuable and relevant are the most important factors. Someone pointed out making sure you are valuable to your current employer by taking on the parts of code that everyone dreads. That is good, so is just making sure you are a team player and are pulling your weight and pitching in wherever you can to make sure things stay on track. In the past, I jumped on a support desk, or stayed late to stuff mailings with sales staff etc. When people see you are willing to help make the team successful even outside your defined role and that you are showing loyalty most good people will return the favor. BTW -- all the things I did when times were less then ideal was what made being an entrepreneur easier, because sometimes you just have to suck it up and clean the bathroom before a client visit, or after depending on the situation.

If you have interest in starting your own thing, there is nothing wrong with doing so. Minimize current expenses, pay off as much of your debt possible while you are a FTE and save some cash up. While you are still working start your side business and take some time to get it right. Starting a business in a downturn is many times quite successful because many businesses look to outsource projects, minimize new head count etc.

One last point, many times enterprises use downturns in the startup sector to snap up talent that they have been squeezed out of getting. So usually enterprise hiring remains pretty robust for the first 12-18 months that I have seen. And this time around if there is a bubble in the startup side, enterprises are sitting on some of the largest cash reserves that I can remember seeing, so who knows how that will work out.

</comment><comment><USER9> > If there is a tech bubble, how can I protect myself?

Get some solid sales & business development experience. Can you figure out new ways to generate revenue, win new clients?

Someone with a solid tech background and true sales ability can create his own deal anywhere. Incidentally, some of the most compelling salesman in this industry were one-time engineers.

</comment><comment><USER10> It's almost always too late to protect yourself when the bubble has popped. So prepare for the next pop. The only way to protect yourself is to build your own business. But not just any kind of business; a business that can absorb the chocks of cyclical troughs in an economy.

What do people always need?

* Drinking water

* Food

* Health

* Shelter

Pick one or two.

<comment><USER11> We're talking about a tech bubble here, not the apocalypse!

<comment><USER10> The listing is not what one should stock up on in their underground bunker. But rather things you can build a business around so you're OK no matter what the economy's doing.

<comment><USER12> Foreclosures, debt collection, company administration, auctions ...</comment></comment></comment></comment>


10 Most Hated Jobs (top 5 are surprising) - <AUTHOR> http://www.cnbc.com/id/44038159?slide=7

<comment><USER2> 10\. Marketing Manager, <http://www.cnbc.com/id/44038159?slide=2>

9\. CNC [computer numerical control] Machinist, <http://www.cnbc.com/id/44038159?slide=3>

8\. Technical Support Analyst, <http://www.cnbc.com/id/44038159?slide=4>

7\. Law Clerk, <http://www.cnbc.com/id/44038159?slide=5>

6\. Electronics Technician, <http://www.cnbc.com/id/44038159?slide=6>

5\. Technical Specialist, <http://www.cnbc.com/id/44038159?slide=7>

4\. Senior Web Developer, <http://www.cnbc.com/id/44038159?slide=8>

3\. Product Manager, <http://www.cnbc.com/id/44038159?slide=9>

2\. Director of Sales and Marketing, <http://www.cnbc.com/id/44038159?slide=10>

1\. Director of Information Technology, <http://www.cnbc.com/id/44038159?slide=11>

</comment><comment><USER3> Anybody doing those jobs that hates them need to get out. Just leave. If you hate the job altogether, find a new profession. If you just hate that company, find a new company. Do not work for jerks.

They'll go through good people until they realize that their attitude and policies are preventing them from having good people. Eventually they'll have no choice but to straighten up.

</comment><comment><USER4> The image illustrating the "Senior Web Developer" job is a screen shot of an HTML image map (with uppercase tags, for good measure); I haven't seen many of those since 1995...?

</comment><comment><USER5> Doesn't work on iPad, only ads can be seen, main content area is empty whitespace.

</comment><comment><USER6> What was their sample for this survey? an IT company? or did they pick their samples online? I am sure there is much much more hated jobs out there.</comment>


I Am Proposing "Refactor Fridays" - <AUTHOR> http://geekregator.com/2015-01-09-refactor_fridays.html

<comment><USER2> I've proposed this at a number of companies the last few years. No one has seemed interested. Could be me.

<comment><USER3> The problem with refactoring is the cost. Its rewriting code to no client perceivable benefit. The retesting, the inevitable new bug introduced during deployment.

As developers I think we need to assume the cost of refactoring and factor that into time estimates for our work. What the author is in effect saying is that we should factor 20% extra into our estimates for rewriting code. Which is fair, I just don't see a need to specify a day for it. Just put it in your project plan.</comment></comment>


Show HN: To Listen to Any Article, Just Add Playthis.link to the URL - <AUTHOR> I was tired of having to constantly scramble to find a podcast I want to listen to when going for a walk or just running on the treadmill. I, however, usually have an abundance of blog posts or articles around the web that I'd like to read. The problem is walking is not very conducive to reading. So I made this quick and dirty site that pretty much works anywhere, no app install, no copy paste, no nothing. Just add the domain playthis.link before any URL in your browser and hit enter. It will redirect to an audio file that automatically starts playing. You don't need to click a 2nd button to play the file either. It just starts reading the text right away. You can do this on your phone and just pick it up and go for a hike.
Example:
Amazing blog post: https://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/01/24/startup-seo/
Audio version: https://playthis.link/https://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/01/24/startup-seo/
Github repo: https://github.com/soheil/playthis.link <comment><USER2> This is really neat. It looks like you're using google cloud's text to speech -- are you footing the bill for this, or do you have a plan to monetize?

I run ListenLater.fm, which does something similar (You add articles to a podcast feed via a bookmarklet or browser extension, then listen to them with a personalized podcast feed.) Your implementation is incredibly clean, but I'm curious what's to stop people from using it a lot and you ending up with a huge bill. One thing I'd immediately recommend you look out for is people using it to turn free online books into audio versions. This is the use case for a few of my customers, and because google charges per character, it can be difficult to make money even when charging a few dollars a month.

Good luck, and please consider shooting me a message on Twitter or via email (in my profile.)

</comment><comment><USER3> Wow, this is amazing. I would love a widget or a function that would let me "share" from a sharesheet on mobile to this and have it play, if you want to add 100% more complexity :-)</comment>


The three laws of great graphs - <AUTHOR> http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2008/07/the-three-laws.html <comment><USER2> I have found the "Motion" advice to be very impactful, and easy to do. Not only do I do it with charts, but if I present an architecture diagram, I use the technique over several slides to show transitioning from the "old" architecture to the "new" architecture in steps.

It really drives the point home and makes it easy to understand.</comment>


Experiment with particles using WebAssembly and WebGL - <AUTHOR> https://maierfelix.github.io/wasm-particles/static/ <comment><USER2> [https://maierfelix.github.io/wasm- particles/dist/bundle.js](https://maierfelix.github.io/wasm- particles/dist/bundle.js)

Quite interesting to read. I don't know much about WASM but I presume the big Uint8Array is the actual C program or something?

<comment><USER3> That is correct; it is the WASM binary [http://webassembly.org/docs/binary- encoding](http://webassembly.org/docs/binary-encoding)

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Source: [https://github.com/maierfelix/wasm- particles](https://github.com/maierfelix/wasm-particles)

</comment><comment><USER4> Crashes in latest Chrome and Safari on latest iOS (11.1.1). Will have to try on desktop later.

<comment><USER5> Chrome on iOS is just a wrapper around a safari web view, plus some nice to haves.

Same behavior observed here too.

<comment><USER6> I thought it was using wkwebview, which is faster than uiwebview, but still behind safari in terms of js performance on iOS.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Why WASM can't give native performance?? (games in a browser?).

All demos I saw only gives 8-10x performance boost?? (with respect to JS)

<comment><USER8> > Why WASM can't give native performance?

As with any language, it depends on how good the optimizations are; wasm is designed to be able to be JITted fast, but is still fairly new, so there's still stuff left on the table.

Additionally if you're compiling a language _to_ wasm, you're also at the mercy of that compiler as well, so it always depends.

> only 8-10x performance boost

I'll take it ;)

<comment><USER9> > Additionally if you're compiling a language to wasm, you're also at the > mercy of that compiler as well, so it always depends.

and potentially runtime, depending on the language you are compiling from

<comment><USER10> Most wasm toolchains use clang for c/c++, so poor compiler generation is rarely a significant issue. IIRC, the emscripten toolchain uses musl as the C runtime, which is reasonably performant runtime. Of course, if you write algorithmically inefficient code, no toolchain is going to improve it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I'm getting a steady 40 FPS on Firefox 56 and 58 on Windows 10. About 5 FPS slower on Chrome 62 on the same machine. And Vivaldi is almost identical to Chrome, which is expected considering they share the same internals. Impressive. EDIT: ~640,000 particles on all browsers.

<comment><USER12> > Impressive.

... is it ? tech demos ten years ago were already north of 1 million particles.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xN2PkxNRHs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xN2PkxNRHs)

<comment><USER13> WebGL is a new frontier for many. I myself was impressed by what I could do with three.js at work. Also impressed by other three.js projects / products out there.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> This is webgl 1 I guess? WebGL 2 has some nice particle suited features like transform feedback: [https://gpfault.net/posts/webgl2-particles.txt.html](https://gpfault.net/posts/webgl2-particles.txt.html)

<comment><USER15> Looking at the source, seems they render all the points in software (WASM) to a 2D texture then to the screen.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> Could one use WASM to build a game engine that runs from the web in a browser and actually performs good?

How does it work? What sort of VM is it running on? How is it compiled?

<comment><USER17> User _rossisred_ ported his "Funky Karts" game from C++ (targeting Android) to WASM.

Direct link to the game: [https://www.funkykarts.rocks/demo.html](https://www.funkykarts.rocks/demo.html)

Blog post on porting the engine: [http://www.rossis.red/wasm.html](http://www.rossis.red/wasm.html)

Original thread: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14411328](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14411328)

His post helped me demystify what WASM is capable of and how it fits with the DOM. He shares some eye-opening code snippets, but the game itself is closed source so it leaves something to be desired.

<comment><USER12> these barrels remind me of that fun old DOS game, Skunny. Quite fun, very nice port !

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Is there an performance gain in using WASM?

<comment><USER8> In general, there should be, but it depends on what you're doing. For example, wasm can't access the DOM directly yet, so you have to call back into JS to do it, which is much slower than the eventual native API will be. For stuff like this, though, it should have _much_ lower overhead.

<comment><USER19> Wasn't the main point of WASM that it is faster to parse than JavaScript?

<comment><USER8> It's one of the main points, yes.

Parsing isn't the only aspect of overall performance, though.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Crashes on Safari Nightly and Firefox Nightly, but very neat when it works! :)

<comment><USER21> It works on my phone's browser (which is a fork of Chrome for Android). No crashes. I even have 34 tabs open.

<comment><USER22> Likely, 33 of those tabs are suspended?

<comment><USER21> Well, most of them were suspended but I believe there were still a few that were active at the time.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Firefox 58, 60FPS.

Chrome: 40 FPS

<comment><USER24> It would probably be useful to include hardware.

60 FPS in Firefox 57.0, Chrome 62.0.3202.89, and Safari 11.0.1, on a 2017 iMac running High Sierra (10.13.1) with a 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5 and a Radeon Pro 570 4 GB.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> So… Who else drew their name?

</comment><comment><USER26> 3 fps?

<comment><USER27> I get 23 on a beastly desktop with dual GeForce 980Ti. Not bad for 1.8 million particles!

<comment><USER28> 17fps with 712000 particles on a Nexus 6P. That's really impressive.

<comment><USER29> That's pretty good! Get between 11-29 fps at 753620 particles on Galaxy s7, mostly sits at 16 or 17fps though.

I wonder what an iPhone would get, I'm led to believe their GPUs are pretty strong (to say the least).</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Apply for Y Combinator or not? - <AUTHOR>

Should I apply?<p>I have a pretty unique idea, but live in Canada. I want my company to operated and be registered in Canada. I am also a single developer, I have friends who are interested in helping, but they aren't team members(designer). I also can't think of a time when I've hacked something. Any thoughts? <comment><USER2> Here is what PG says:

Do we have to start a company in the US for you to invest in us?

Yes, but that's usually not a problem. It's easy for foreign nationals to start US companies (much easier than remaining here physically), and investors and acquirers prefer them.

Do we have to be US citizens?

No, as long as you can get here for at least three months. We've funded many startups founded by non-citizens.

Can you get us visas?

No, sorry, we don't do that. You'll have to figure out visas for yourself. If you know people from previous YC-funded companies who came from outside the US, we suggest you ask them for advice. They understand the options better than we do.

</comment><comment><USER3> While anything is possible, I find that most situations are best approached by maximizing for the desired outcome. As such, take the following for what it's work and good luck to you:

YC has a clear and openly stated bias for founding teams of 2<=X<=4 entrepreneurs.

Traction trumps MVP any day of the week. If people are already using your MVP, stress that. Traction is a commonly used de-selector.

The investor preference in SV is such that (it's likely) one of the first things required for a seed round will be some sort of DE or DE & CA incorporation. Since YC companies get funding, it's likely they'll require you to do the same. This is probably an area that if you choose not to give on where the company is incorporated, you'll turn off a lot of investors from SV. If it's a deal breaker for you, seek Canadian investment.

-Best of luck

<comment><AUTHOR> Do you think its reasonable for me to have a preference for operating in Canada? My server is currently in the USA but I do know that once there is traction(profit) ill move it to Canada and keep it here.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I think you should apply. In case your application will be accepted you'll have a unique YC experience. As a Canadian you shouldn't have any visa problems to come to US for 3 months.

In case you won't be accepted... At least you have tried.

<comment><USER5> Agreed, I'm applying from Canada too. Take the chance. What's to lose?

<comment><AUTHOR> someone stealing my idea?

<comment><USER5> ;} (edit: wink with evil grin!)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Hack more, and find team members. Create some working prototypes. Try a minimum viable product. An idea is cool but it often changes a TON when you implement and start iterating.

</comment><comment><USER7> No need to let your Canadian status be a barrier to making the application. I know of at least one Toronto-based team that landed funding last cycle.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Should point out that I have already developed a minimum viable product. Its in version 1, I'm working on a set of updates to make it better.

</comment><comment><USER8> Keep working on your idea, apply next time around if situations have changed.

</comment><comment><USER9> just out of curiosity, why do you want it to be operated in Canada?

</comment><comment><USER10> Where are you located in Canada? I'm in Guelph.</comment>


On Facebook, Sicilian Mafia Is a Hot Topic - <AUTHOR> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/world/europe/20italy.html?hp=&pagewanted=all <comment><USER2> _Such groups "are like sites that laud Hitler or Nazism,_

Always with the Hitler links. I knew there'd be one in the starts and bam my respect for the anti-mafia people are gone.

I don't see how there's any commonality between Hitler and a Mafia leader. Hitler was a psychopath who took over countries and mass exterminated anyone he didn't see as worthy of life. Mafia leaders are criminals and most psychological tests show criminals have a similar brain function as a cop, just different morals on breaking the law. The Mafia are known for being harsh when people double cross them (like JFK), but I've never heard of the mafia committing genocide as I don't think it's a practical means of business.

Oh and this is the ultimate in being hilariously pathetic: _Many say Facebook, which has 150 million members worldwide, is a healthy tool to foster debate. Indeed, others are using Facebook to mobilize resistance against the Mafia. An Italian group called "Mafia Off Facebook" has 166,000 members and held a one- day Facebook blackout on Wednesday, when members did not log on to the site to protest the presence of pro-Mafia groups._</comment>