Is This Really Entrepreneurship? - <AUTHOR> http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=35996

<comment><USER2> This concept has already been very popular in Europe for many years. <http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/13/world/europe/13paris.html>

What you lack is an understanding of the most common use case. I want to ride a bike 3 miles away from my home, but I don't want to worry about finding a place to lock my bike, take the risk of having it stolen, and I don't want to have to retrieve my bike before going home. I've been waiting for this system to migrate to LA since I saw how well it worked in barcelona 4 years ago. I think it's a great concept, and furthermore it would be impossible to implement without government approval because all the docking stations are on sidewalks.

</comment><comment><USER3> Under this theory, why do we have any government at all? One might argue that the main purpose of government is to provide an aggregate benefit to society that would otherwise not occur due to coordination, efficiency of scale (lack thereof), tragedy of the commons, and other issues.

For example, in this particular case, even if consumers wanted these bikes / bike stations, it might never happen if the company relied on consumer sponsorship. Who's going to pay for such a service when there's only a handful of stations and bikes? But how is the company going to get a ton of bikes / install a bunch of stations without customers? Of course, raising money is one way, but selling to a customer that (in theory) represents the entire population (and has some of their money) is another.

Not saying that in this instance, the government is not incompetent/derelict beyond all belief - all I am is saying is that you can't say a company isn't providing something people want _just_ because they're selling to government. In order to be able to do that, you'd have to first show that the government in question is completely broken in that it _never_ provides things that are beneficial to society, which the author has not (maybe the U.S. government is close, but I doubt many would assert that it is 100% broken).

</comment><comment><USER4> Amsterdam, famous for bikes, has a nice bike share system. You buy a stolen bike from a crackhead for 10 euro. You ride it around until it gets stolen (maybe a week or two). Then you buy another bike for 10 euro. You never worry about leaving it anywhere because you can always get a new one for cheap. It's like a recycling program!

</comment><comment><USER5> I've always struggled with the term 'entrepreneur' as it seems anybody can call themselves that, wether they are starting a project, running a franchise, consulting/contracting, whatever.

It always to me seemed like a term with so much arrogance and yet didn't have a concrete enough definition of what it is.

The google definitions [http://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&...](http://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=definition+entrepreneur#hl=en&q=entrepreneur&tbs=dfn:1&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=3wsrTv7QBZLRiAKsrviwAg&ved=0CBYQkQ4&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=7ca3eaf9fad24547&biw=990&bih=868)

seem to imply the managing of financial risk, but really I think it is a word that has lost it's meaning.

<comment><USER6> > it seems anybody can call themselves that

Kind of like "scientist"?

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> The argument is that selling something that nobody wants to the government is not entrepreneurship. This, I concur.

However, it was wrong to conflate something which _the author_ couldn't think of anybody wanting with something that nobody wants.

Secondly, the entrepreneur isn't "selling" to the city. The city is getting money for free, i.e. cut of the proceeds without having to come up with capital or operating expenditure.

The lack of car parking spaces in cities is a growing problem and cities are actively trying to solve the problem of public access without having to fund public transport, since hiring public service workers may not be an option. Providing bikes for hire can be seen as one of the measures a city can use to reduce cab traffic.

For me, once I find a car park, I am very reluctant to leave it until work finishes. If I have to go anywhere else say during lunch time, having access to a bike would be extremely handy.

</comment><comment><USER8> Bike sharing systems allow you to localize bike storage, removing the need to transport bikes long distances. Instead, transit by bicycle is reduced to middling distances where they have an advantage over both walking and cars.

Second, I don't see how this isn't entrepreneurship. By the author's logic, if I design a workflow system which streamlines compliance measures and so allows a city or state to shift more of their workforce to telecommuting, I'm not an entrepreneur. But clearly, I found a specific problem (regulations that hamper telecommuting) and privately engineered a solution to them; why my customer base is an issue isn't clear.

I'd argue, in fact, that this kind of entrepreneurship may be far _more_ important than others because of the impact government has. The next geosocial app won't produce nearly as much value in the economy as, e.g., the workflow software considered above if only because it reduces government waste.

</comment><comment><USER9> Ive taken issue with 'entrepreneur' being associated with anyone that launches a website regardless of what it does AND frankly any business whose sole business model is advertising. I think its reached a saturation point where its just not very interesting anymore. I accept that is a personal opinion and money is money.

I think the more interesting problem is what venues of business are going to create growth vs. which are just going to sap the reserves of the dwindling pool.

To play devil's advocate, I think alternate transportation does need to be subsidized because individual free choice is not always the "best" choice for a society's growth.

<comment><USER10> I think it comes down to what one considers entrepeneurial. Here at HN, with the crowd heavily skewed as it is towards tech, the adwords seo marketing facebook twitter dashboard mashup is seen as more entrepeneurial than this bike sharing venture - which, arguably, falls under the same class of businesses as, say, property management.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Ignoring the obvious slant to the article (especially funny since the author is questioning a Forbes article) dictionary.com defines an entrepreneur as:

en·tre·pre·neur [ahn-truh-pruh-nur, -noor; Fr. ahn-truh-pruh-nœr] 1\. a person who organizes and manages any enterprise, especially a business, usually with considerable initiative and risk. 2\. an employer of productive labor; contractor.

So, if the article really wants to know is Ms. Cohen is an entrepreneur, then I think the answer is yes. Also, how does an article with the phrase "the end is near" in the tagline make it to the front page for so long?

</comment><comment><USER12> The author is right. Washington DC has an extensive bikeshare system, but over the course of my summer internship it actually made more sense to buy a used bike and sell it back at the end. This is because-

-The bikes are low-quality and heavy, by design

-The time limits and locations are too restrictive (you have to find another docking station, you can't just lock them up anywhere)

-The price point wasn't low enough to beat $170 for a used bike on Craigslist

Maybe I don't fit the use case because bicycles are my primary means of transportation, but I really don't understand who these bikes are for.

<comment><USER13> Minnesota's new bikeshare program is working quite well over its first year. The bikes are nice, maintained daily, and kiosks are available almost everywhere.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice_Ride_Minnesota>

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Lets play spot the difference.

From the article; "Her goal is not to sell the service to consumers, but rather to the government." And now we change two words; "Her goal is not to sell the service to consumers, but rather to venture capitalists."

The entire argument is flawed, they are selling to a customer. Does it matter who the customer is?

Why does the government subsidize public transport in large cities?

From the Article; "In the case of Alta Bicycle Share, my life would be better without its existence." Try swapping "Alta Bicycle Share" with "New York Subway".

I certainly hope Casey Research (the article writer) wasn't subsidized by the oil or car industry to write this piece of garbage.

<comment><USER15> The point is that a system-wide focus on selling to the government isn't desirable. Likewise, I would think that a system-wide focus on selling to venture capitalists to be similarly undesirable.

The NY subway isn't a good comparison, at all. Most people would still use and pay for the subway, even it were privatized. On the contrary (which is specifically stated in the article) the rent-a-bikes don't seem to be needed by consumers. Whether consumers _really_ want the bikes is unknown, but that isn't the point he's making.

<comment><USER14> >Most people would still use and pay for the subway, even it were privatized.

Given that nearly all the public transport for large cities is provided at a loss, I wonder if people would pay? History suggests not.

I have no idea if the rent-a-bikes are needed by consumers or not. The article doesn't seem to quote any studies by transport planners or the like. It is written by a company that provides energy/oil information, I wouldn't expect them to write an article about the problems of cars anytime soon.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Pursuit of government sponsorship is easier than convincing people to part with their hard earned money by persuasion. A government bureaucrat with a magic bank account called a "departmental budget" filled with other peoples money can be far easier to entice with the latest lame scheme to make the area look good on paper, while adding nothing of genuine utility to the infrastructure.

I agree with the author on this one- it's a waste of money. But is it "entrepreneurial"? Yes. Sad, but yes.

<comment><USER17> My school has recently signed on to one of these programs but through a different company (viaCycle @ Georgia Tech). Basically they're subsidizing their business through students. We already pay for the campus bus system and the school has plenty of bike racks at each building including bike storage rooms and lockers at the dorms. But the alumni who own the company have realized that the school will pay and the SGA will accept it because it makes them look like they're doing something.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Didn't read the article but I think, yes, everything is entrepreneurship. The only difference is ever the model that you are earning on. Just because you work for someone else on a w-4 doesn't mean you aren't an entrepreneur.

<comment><USER16> If you didn't bother yourself to read the article, why do you feel anything you have to say on the topic is relevant?

<comment><USER10> This could be asked of a number of comments, but sadly, rarely is.</comment></comment></comment>


Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development - <AUTHOR> https://karussell.wordpress.com/2017/01/02/lenovo-thinkpad-t460-a-good-linux-laptop-for-development/ <comment><USER2> As an ex-linux user and current mac user, I'm still frustrated by linux laptop hardware support. Ethernet ports that need to be re-plugged, suspend-to-disk not working... lots of glitches things that were already annoying 6-7 years ago but now are hard to justify compared with the polish you can expect from other systems. I could never go back from my macbook because I need everything to just work - no glitchy touchpads, dodgy networking, haphazard sleep (and that's before we get into the quality of the available hardware). I want to actually do things with my computer, not spend my time fixing glitches.

<comment><USER3> I still run Linux despite all the challenges and all the hardware constantly breaking and working just-not-right, because I just love the openness and I don't understand how can Apple (and windows) users survive without "apt-get". Homebrew is a poor substitute for me.

I am basically using linux just for apt-get, the configurability and the ability to test server-side software in the same-ish environment as it will actually run in is a nice plus.

But yeah, people that argue that "there are no issues" are either lying or were incredibly lucky. I actually bought a laptop that had _ubuntu pre- installed_ that stopped working immediately after doing a system update! (Because the laptop had a binary blob driver for a graphic card, and that stopped working with some new kernel or whatever.)

<comment><USER4> Consider using a VM, and using either Windows or OS X as graphical user interface. You can then easily SSH into the VM, and do most of the development there. If you run a samba (or nfs) server on the VM, you can even easily use e.g. VS Code. Add an X server and you can run (albeit not very fast) run graphical programs (e.g. and IDE) as well.

<comment><USER3> And what would be the upside to that?

Sure, HW would work better, but I don't want to update _two OSes_ instead of one.

And the only thing I am really missing on Linux is Adobe Creation Suite. GIMP and Inkscape are not nearly adequate (although they are for a better price). And there is literally nothing like Flash, for a simple animation.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I've owned Thinkpads in the past and almost bought the T460 last month, then I discovered the Dell XPS / Precision line and fell in love. I picked up a manufacturer refurbished XPS 15 on eBay and wound up swapping in a Dell Precision E3-1505M motherboard I stumbled across.

The line has Intel quad core CPUs, minimal bezel (my 15" is almost the same size as the 14" System 76 Galago Ultra Pro it's replacing), reasonably slim for a quad core, 84Wh battery, 10+ hours of low power dev (baseline power is about 5.25W on my 8GB + 1080p + Xeon E3-1505M machine) in (Arch) Linux? YES.

Oh yeah, and for nerd points the Dell Precision M5510 has the option for Intel Xeon and Ubuntu stock for people doing CPU intensive Linux work (in my case Linux embedded system builds that grind for tens of minutes to two hours).

To add icing on the cake, you can easily get parts (batteries, motherboards, etc) on eBay if you ever need to fix it yourself which is a sharp contrast to the non-existent System76 Galago Ultra Pro I picked up a few years ago after I ditched my last Thinkpad.

I keep looking at the Thinkpads, but they seem a generation behind.

<comment><USER6> > Xeon E3-1505M machine

Except they don't ship with ECC memory.

> 32GB, DDR4-2133MHz SDRAM, 2 DIMMS, Non-ECC [0]

So what's the point of having a Xeon? The Core i7 options offered for the laptop support all the same processor features [1], except ECC memory [2], which Dell isn't even shipping.

[0] [http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/precision-m5510-workstatio...](http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/precision-m5510-workstation/pd)

[1] [http://ark.intel.com/products/88970/Intel-Core-i7-6820HQ- Pro...](http://ark.intel.com/products/88970/Intel-Core-i7-6820HQ- Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-3_60-GHz)

[2] [http://ark.intel.com/products/89608/Intel-Xeon- Processor-E3-...](http://ark.intel.com/products/89608/Intel-Xeon- Processor-E3-1505M-v5-8M-Cache-2_80-GHz)

Edit: I think it's a legitimate gripe, Dell is selling a Xeon but there's zero benefit over buying an i7 equipped model. But thanks for all the downvotes!

<comment><USER7> I suppose the ability to install ECC memory on one's own is still a benefit. Still would be nice for Dell to ship with it, though, instead of requiring customers to buy it elsewhere.

<comment><USER8> What's the benefit of ECC on a laptop? Less frequent system failures? I haven't seen a system halt on my laptop in months.

<comment><USER9> Maybe better rowhammer resistance?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> And one of the most awesome things about Thinkpads not mentioned; you can get every (most?) replacement part directly from Lenovo. You can actually look up the part number in the service manual, order it, and replace it yourself. For nerds like us, this is sooo nice sometimes, when you just wanna get it fixed quickly, from the comfort of your own home.

<comment><AUTHOR> Didn't knew this, thanks. I also like the fact that the (rear) battery is easily replacable. Also something more recent laptops do avoid due to "the thin contest"

<comment><USER11> Recent laptops don't just avoid replaceable batteries due to thickness or weight; they avoid them because they want to cram as many battery cells in as possible, and provide longer battery life. A modern laptop chassis contains 50-80% battery cells by volume; every bit of the volume not occupied by other components gets filled by battery.

<comment><USER12> So thickness and weight are the drivers for this: You can always build a laptop that has the same battery capacity with a detachable battery as you can with a non-detachable. It's just going to be thicker and heavier.

<comment><USER11> It'll also have a great deal of wasted space, more moving parts, more breakable components, less structural support, additional hardware and software validation requirements, and require some careful engineering to avoid having it fall over backward when you open the screen slightly past vertical (battery cells work nicely as a counterweight). All for a laptop that wouldn't sell as well because people do care about size and weight.

Getting the same battery capacity would require a battery much larger than the classic removable ThinkPad battery; you'd need a system where you can remove a battery 60-80% the size of the chassis.

On the flip side, you can still replace the battery after a few years when it loses enough of its capacity; it just requires a bit more work. And for people who want more battery capacity and currently swap batteries for that, the trend towards using USB-C as the universal charging port will make it easier to have compatible external batteries, that will also work with your phone and other devices.

<comment><USER13> Why would you open the laptop screen when there is no battery? The only time when you have no battery in the laptop is the few seconds it takes to replace one with another.

AFAIK, fixed batteries are located in the very same place as the removable ones: at the rear of the laptop. They are not spread everywhere, there is no hyper-advanced design is that respect, and they definitely do not occupy 60-80% of the chassis. They could be pulled away / inserted back from the rear is the design choice was such.

<comment><USER11> > AFAIK, fixed batteries are located in the very same place as the removable > ones: at the rear of the laptop.

Not typically. The tiny system board lives near the back of the laptop, to connect to the ports and the screen. (Often, the system board doesn't even take up the full width of the back of the laptop, and instead has ribbon cables connecting the ports on one side to the system board.) The battery takes up all the space under the front and middle of the laptop.

> They are not spread everywhere, there is no hyper-advanced design is that > respect, and they definitely do not occupy 60-80% of the chassis.

I've seen the insides of many laptops, both in person and via pictures. I've seen battery cells laid out in many different shapes around the system board and other components, including Ls, Us, and Hs, and in multiple packets of cells with minimal connections between them.

As for "advanced design", [https://www.apple.com/macbook/design/](https://www.apple.com/macbook/design/) made a point of talking about its terraced battery cells to fit the enclosure. And while some laptops might not go that far, I've seen many laptops shape groups of battery cells around other components to make a non-rectangular battery.

And as for volume, I've personally seen the internals of many laptops, and the better the laptop, the higher proportion of the volume that consists of battery cells. I wouldn't have given those estimated numbers if I hadn't seen laptops fitting both ends of that range and various points in the middle. (Some quick searches suggest that much smaller laptops, and lower-end laptops, may dip as low as 40-50% battery cells; medium and large laptops, and those intended as higher-end or with higher expected battery life, have more.)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I'm still using an ancient Thinkpad T400 I bought when they first came out (2007, I think?), and I still love it. Despite heavy use, everything works perfectly and the case could probably last for decades. Doing normal dev work on Arch Linux (everything from low level C++ to Python/Julia, but no web stuff) is pleasant despite the dated CPU.

Every time I look at reviews of "modern" laptops or try a friend's machine (Apple, Dell, HP, mostly), I get a little sad over how the market has regressed in the past decade. Thus, the only upgrade I'm considering is getting a few T420/X220 machines to last me another decade or so. My dream would be a T60 case with modern hardware and there's a number of retro Thinkpad projects out there, but it's probably not going to happen. Not sure what I'm going to do when a T420 is finally too dated to be productive on, but thankfully that's a very long way off.

<comment><USER15> I also still have a T400 chugging along with Arch. It got put in storage for a few years until I dug it out while recycling some other junk and realized it still had considerable life in it.

I just set someone up with a T420 with a few upgrades and it's a fantastic value. Hardest part was finding a source for the rubber HD rails needed to swap a 7mm tall SSD in place of the original 9.5mm platter drive. It was technically a downgrade from a newer thinkpad laptop that they had, but the T420 is just a better machine from fit/finish/touchpad/upgrade/repair perspectives.

If anyone has advice on swapping the screen on a T420 please point me towards it - the T420 screen is, for me, the only negative.

<comment><USER14> > If anyone has advice on swapping the screen on a T420 please point me > towards it - the T420 screen is, for me, the only negative.

There's a lot of people swapping them (one example [1]), but I don't know if there's a consensus on which are the best options, and there's quite a few. I think the T420 and the X220 are by far the best options for reasonably modern but not yet ruined Thinkpads, but for both of them the screens are definitely the weak points.

[1] [https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/3hjlbu/so_i_did_t...](https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/3hjlbu/so_i_did_the_t420_fhd_ips_mod_and_its_glorious/)

<comment><USER16> You can replace the T420 screen with a $45 Alienware 1600x900 screen that is allegedly plug-n-play and amazing [https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/4no5ak/t420_alien...](https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/4no5ak/t420_alienware_panel_replacement_success/)

Considering doing it to my T420S :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> It would be so much easier to love my Thinkpad T460s if it wasn't for the touchpad. Coming to Thinkpad and Linux after many years as a Mac-user this was almost a deal breaker for me. The palm detection in synaptic driver is laughable. People installing Linux on the new Macbook Pros are going to have a blast with that gigantic touchpad.

And I don't even think it's just a driver problem, as the touchpad can register a finger hovering over it, or not register it at all, if the finger is somewhat dry. I've spent countless hours trying to fine tune the thresholds, but it's just complete and utter shit.

I would have returned it and gotten a Macbook Pro if it wasn't for the fact that the new Macbook seems more geared towards light weight users with the smaller battery, memory and crazy expensive upgrades.

I've had to re-position my cursor three times while writing this, because my palm moves it around. It's rarely a problem when coding, because I don't stop to think for shorter periods, like I do when typing. A quick fix is to set the syndaemon to lock the touchpad when typing, but you can't have that treshhold too high either or it gets in the way.

Oh, and don't get me started on the speakers. There is no way in hell that Lenovo spent any time to tune the acoustics. Listening to people talk almost always gives resonance in the case. I know it's a laptop, but in the current state they are more or less useless.

On the other hand, what I do love about it:

\- Super light weight, very noticeable when coming from a Macbook. \- Amazing battery life, I can easily do a full days work on a single charge. \- Recharges very quickly, which I think is a result of having two batteries. \- Really good keyboard. Probably the reason I'm keeping it. \- Debian Stretch was a breeze to switch to. Everything just worked (except for touchapd and docking station!)

But I honestly expected a little more from a laptop that costs $3000.

<comment><USER18> Learn to use the trackpoint instead and disable the touchpad.

<comment><USER19> The method of interaction is so different it would be nicer to advise people to not use a pointing device at all. I've always wanted to like them, but the track point is a poor man's trackball, and where do you see a trackball these days?

<comment><USER20> One of the attractions of the trackpoint is that you don't have to move your fingers from the keyboard. Hence, people who are keyboard-centric get pointer access without the usual tradeoff. A dev running a tiling window manager can still have full use of their web browser.

Expect it would be messy to work with for photoshop. For example, it recalibrates if you hold it down too long, and then creeps away when you release it.

Idea for precision work: small trackball and scrollers built into the side of the laptop (like a port).

<comment><USER21> I got an external Lenovo keyboard because I really like the trackpoint.

[https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lenovo-0B47221-keyboards- Universal-...](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lenovo-0B47221-keyboards-Universal- English/dp/B00S9QMCRQ/ref=pd_sim_147_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=HPSSKXMRM8SRS100WDMB)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Lenovo are on my personal shitlist after superfish and abusing the windows platform binary table. When my current laptop dies (a thinkpad T440p that I'm reasonably happy with), I may have to suck up the performance hit and go to minifree for a machine I can actually trust.

<comment><USER23> Sounds like a non-problem if you are going to wipe out Windows and install Linux anyway?

<comment><USER7> And additionally a non-problem with the ThinkPad line, which is far less susceptible to this sort of tomfoolery.

<comment> Capt-RogerOver Why would it be less susceptible? Isn't it the same company that makes them?

<comment><USER7> Yes, but the ThinkPads have a much bigger reputation on the line than the IdeaPads. Lenovo seems to know better than to annoy the businesses and power users that typically buy ThinkPads, whereas the IdeaPad-buying ordinary user is more tolerant of bloatware.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> After I made a few comments here on HN about the T460, I felt I should condense all the stuff into a short blog post. Feel free to add your experience or alternate developer machines, with pros and cons.

What I missed at Dell and Apple is the possibility to configure your hardware a bit so that it better fits your needs. This was better for Dell when I purchased the Dell Latitude 7 years ago.

I did not choose an MBP because I feel safer with Linux in the long run. I heared that the security _updates_ stop two years afterwards and the software _upgrades_ makes the 'old' hardware a lot slower.

In the end every OS somehow sucks, but Linux sucks least.

<comment><USER24> I've got a T460 and have been pleased with it although I am running Windows on it at the moment. However it has just developed a fault on the screen (bright spot in the middle).

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> Ive went with a T420 recently, mostly because of the keyboard. But also because $400 for laptop + battery + Samsung SSD + 16GB hyperX Ram sounded so cheap i could not resist. And honestly even after a 2015 MBP it feels perfect for all my needs. In fact due to the superior RAM and SSD it feels often way faster than the MBP for 5 times that price felt. Plus it has way better battery life.

Seriously Thinkpads are the best dev laptops ever.

<comment><USER26> Have their trackpads improved at all during the last five years?

<comment><USER11> The current X1 Carbon has an excellent trackpad, to the point that I actually consider the trackpad a usable alternative to the stick.

<comment><USER27> Palm detection is pretty terrible still though (on Linux at least). Tap to click is unusable for me for this reason.

<comment><USER11> libinput has much better palm detection than synaptics.

Personally, I haven't had tap to click enabled for a long time, since I have physical mouse buttons available.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> I bought a used W520, as it was one of the last Thinkpads with full/normal keyboard. I just can't get work down as quickly using modern island-style keyboards. I recommend it especially if you are still using an older Thinkpad.

It's fast, supports up to 32gb of memory, 3 hard drives (regular, micro SATA, ultrabay), and has a good video card.

I also find the touchpad with its mouse thumb buttons to be easier on my wrists than the trackpoint or other laptop trackpads.

As a W (workstation) version it is heavy and requires a heavier charger. The T520 could solve this problem and also be a cheaper option.

Hopefully Lenovo's "Retro Thinkpad" project is brought to reality.

<comment><USER29> Have you considered using an external mech keyboard? There are a decent number of small ones: Pok3r, Planck, HHKB Pro 2, others.

<comment><USER28> This is just for mobile computing and being able to work in different places. I do have a mechanical for my desktop and like it, but I don't like being anchored to the same spot everyday.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> My experience with Lenovo:

Personal Machine: (Ubuntu/CentOS with 1 or 2 VM running sometimes) For me: AMD Quad Core - A10 7300 , with 8GB DDR3 RAM and 1TB HDD (acer aspire e15) is perfect Linux development machine, it costs less than $500 . Unless you are running 3 or more VM or stuffs like high-end data processing using 16GB RAM for development is worthless.

Work machine: (Windows / Fedora-19 with 3VBox vm running most of the time) We (team of 7 members) received new Lenovo thinkpad in 2012, with 256SSD, 16GB ram, and i7 processor. Within 18months 3 or 4 of my friends faced hardware related-issues (suddenly stopped booting etc). Luckily mine survived until I left the company in 2015.

</comment><comment><USER31> > ... I find the boot time compelling enough (~23sec until login, plus 2sec to > open the browser) that I do not need this.

I think something is slowing down your boot, I get faster boot on a 2008 thinkpad running the same OS.

OT: systemd was supposed to improve boot performance but it has actually become much worse. Upstart on a weak chromebook boots in under 2 sec, why shouldn't your current generation thinkpad with a fast SSD match that?

<comment><USER32> I find it curious that you care about boot-times. I use macbooks and just close and reopen the lid. Waking from this sleep takes less than a second usually.

My average uptime is about 22 days until I reboot for an update or something.

I used Linux for years, and I understood that in 2008 sleep/resume on notebooks didn't properly work, but now we have 2017 - 9 years later!

<comment><USER31> I don't really care about boot times, but as a tech guy 23 seconds sounds like an error to me and I want to find it and fix it :)

Also, old laptops with dieing batteries (or new ones with always-on sensors such as fingerprint readers) have some leakage during sleep so it may be better to turn them off if you are not going to use them for a few days.

edit: resume/suspend in linux works just fine and has done so for many years (in response to eltoozero)

<comment><AUTHOR> I have disabled the UEFI Network Stack (updated the article to reflect this) and now the BIOS boot time is down to ~2seconds :) !

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> I love these linux on laptop articles. I've used linux since Redhat 5.0 and have almost always had to configure things to get everything to work. Nowadays, I don't really have the time to dick around, I used Gentoo for a long time, so I rely on Ubuntu to make it a simple plug and play install. Even with most of today's laptops, ubuntu seems to play well compared to the bad old days. I find I can throw Ubuntu on any laptop and get working as soon as I put in a few customizations and tweaks. Really, in my mind, linux has come a long way. But it's great to see how easy it is to get linux up and going on most laptops today.

<comment><USER34> I used to use Arch Linux and moved to Fedora for the same reasons (don't want to fiddle with everything all the time). I was really surprised to see that it had HiDPI support by default. In Arch, it required some real gymnastics to make it work OK.

Basically, everything works, I can get like 80% of the customization I had on Arch, haven't had any BS for the few months I've used it (besides newest Spotify version crashing with Wayland, but a downgrade solved that). It's pretty nice.

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> Currently writing this from Arch Linux on the ThinkPad T450s (I think it's the version directly before the one in this article). Cannot recommend it enough, easily the best laptop keyboard I've ever used and the touchpad feels nice under my fingers. Not as nice to the touch as the mac's one, but it's the closest I've seen and on the bright side it's the perfect size to not get in the way (as opposed to Apple's massive parking lot at the bottom of the laptop) and it has regular buttons as well as supporting pushing on the trackpad itself, so overall I'd say it's a toss-up there. The main problem I have is that pgup/pgdown are right next to the arrow keys, which makes them extremely easy to hit by accident. Luckily, I don't use them often.

</comment><comment><USER36> This week at CES the T470 will be announced. So if you're thinking about buying one you might want to wait for that

<comment><AUTHOR> For Linux I highly recommend a further waiting of 6-9 months (e.g. (x)ubuntu 17.04.1)

<comment><USER37> But it's not LTS. All the major software stuff will be well supported for 16.04 till 18.04.

If you look around, you'll mostly find 14.04/16.04 in supported OSes. Even for OSS software, not just commercial stuff.

<comment><USER38> I think the parent means that it may take some time until the hardware support gets to Linux kernel.

I bought a Broadwell laptop right when the first ones came out, and had a lot of trouble with the integrated graphics (Intel, who supposedly do a good job with their Linux drivers compared to anyone else). It took about an year for Ubuntu to package a kernel that didn't either have annoying blinking glitches or hard lock-ups regularly. Obviously, I've been using the mainline kernels all that time, but even with them it took a couple of months.

So yes, caution and patience with bleeding edge hardware is advisable.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> I bought a T420s a few months ago.

I am selling my much newer MacBook Pro retina now, as the Thinkpad is so much more functional, the keyboard is amazing the feeling of the machine itself is fantastic.

I am thinking to buy a X260 brand new because I need a newer CPU and better battery life, but for sure I'll only buy Thinkpads or Latitudes (I have one at work, amazing machine) from now on.

<comment><USER40> I have a X260. Don't.

The keyboard is a smooth smudgefest with so-so tactile feedback (this particular point will depend on which manufacturer supplied the keyboard that ends up in your unit). The keys and trackpoint leave marks on the display when it is closed. The display bezel leaves marks on the palmrest. This is really poor engineering on basic stuff.

When I pick up the laptop by the lower left corner (hey, it's an ultraportable, why would I ever do that, right?), it immediately crashes with a garbled screen. After looking that up I found out that the HDD/SSD is under the left palmrest, and picking it up there may flex and alter the SATA connection, causing the crash. This seems to affect a random sample of users. So much for Thinkpad's vaunted "sturdy rollcage". But here's the real kicker: when I found this info on Lenovo's own forum, it was for the X230! This defect has been known for 3 generations of X-series Thinkpads, and yet they have never bothered fixing it.

Ever since they decided to move to 16:9 with horrible Low-Fi resolution (for a line of laptops meant to be for serious, professional users), I feel like Lenovo's Thinkpad group have be led with the vision and drive of a Roomba: mostly face-plants, and every actual improvement is to catch up to the competition (notable exception: hot-swapable battery). I only stick to Thinkpads because of the trackpoint and Linux compatibility, I suspect I'm not the only one.

<comment><USER41> Weird - we've got an office full of x240s & x260s and they all seem fine from what I can tell.

Never had a hardware related issue in ~2 years of use. Well except that one bluescreen a couple months back - that could be hw I guess.

The screen res pisses me off though. :/

<comment><USER40> I am not saying that you cannot get a decent X260, but notice how now in every Thinkpad thread there is a significant number of "me / my team had a number of thinkpads, we've had to go through N replacements during the last year", whereas a few years ago they were the poster boy for reliability. Thinkpads now have the engineering/manufacturing tolerance of a low to mid range consumer laptop, even though they are supposed to be professional equipment. This is unconscionable.

This is why I don't recommend something like the X260. You can't buy a premium laptop and "just hope" it will have none of the reported defects. We pay a premium with an expectation for reliability, not for a QA lottery.

Conversely it seems most complaints are for the X2xx and T4xx series, which is why I believe it has to do with manufacturing tolerance: maybe on 15" it's just good enough to not have any significant defect, and they kept the same M.O. for the more compact models, and there problems did pop up.

(The screen resolution has in fact been getting better for the latest two generations, but here again it is only to catch up to the competition. Remember when you could get a 15in Thinkpad with an IPS 2048x1536 display, long before the "retina" buzzword came to life? That was before Lenovo took over.)

<comment><USER41> >I am not saying that you cannot get a decent X260, but notice how now in every Thinkpad thread there is a significant number of "me

Well its subjective either way. We've got over 300 of the things in the office though, so more inclined to trust that than counting complaints in threads.

I'm sure there are better laptops out there but the x240/260s are far from duds. What they are though is old...office is replacing them with x1 carbons thankfully - with HD screens (finally).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> I'm using Lenovo P50 for Linux development with duel boot to Windows. The trick to get duel boot right is to have two SSDs and install each OS on its own SSD. P50 supports two SSDs + 1 spinning drive. Besides this, its very likely only laptop with 64GB option and 4K display with descret NVidia GPU with 4GB memory so you can even do local deep learning!

<comment><USER43> Thank you for this. I think this is very likely to be my next hardware purchase. Didn't know such a thing existed yet.

<comment><USER44> There are a lot of laptops like that in the PC market, more skewed towards gamers. I like Dave 2D's youtube reviews (no affiliation) of laptops: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLsDn59fxdQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLsDn59fxdQ)

He has a whole bunch more on his channel about others similar to that lenovo.

<comment><USER42> I've looked in to most major brands (Dell, Lenovo, HP, Razor) and can't find any offering with 64GB RAM + discret 4GB CUDA card + 4K resolution + 2 SSD + 1 spinning drive + Linux support.

If you know any other options, I would be happy to know.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER45> Happy T560 (same laptop, with a 15'6" screen) owner here. Fully agree with the post conclusion: _" powerful, has a very long lasting battery, it is silent under normal work and you can get your stuff done quickly and get solid Linux support. The Linux support is so good that I'm wondering why they do not ship it commercially to attract people like me."_

EDIT1: To dig further: compared to half a dozen linux "tweaks" with my former Dell XPS laptop, I have _zero_ with this Thinkpad. Everything works as expected, no hardware-related config whatsoever. This is using Arch Linux, which ships a recent kernel.

EDIT2: I bought the larger T _5_ 60 version because I like the simplicity of doing everything on the same machine, but I'm more often using it at home than on the go, so the mobility / screen size trade-off is easy for me, and it's still _relatively_ light (it's relatively thin, unlike W series).

</comment><comment><USER46> I bought a T460p a few months ago and am not very happy with it. The problem I have is that linux(I am running debian) has quite a few problems with the Skylake architecture, especially the graphics driver. I tried everything I can think of, installing the intel driver manually and installing the newest kernel(4.9.0) but I still have some troubles with the graphics glitches. So I when I'll be buying a new laptop I will definitely avoid the Skylake arch, every other version I tried worked a lot better.

<comment><USER47> Intel do a quarterly release that fetches pre-built packages but it's only for Ubuntu/Fedora.

On my NUC, when new, I ran debian testing and had to pull in packages from debian experimental for Intel driver support.

So I'd suggest maybe switching to downstream Ubuntu might involve less trauma?

[https://01.org/linuxgraphics/downloads/intel-graphics- update...](https://01.org/linuxgraphics/downloads/intel-graphics-update-tool- linux-os-v2.0.3)

<comment><USER48> I can confirm that Ubuntu 16.04 works great on a T460p. The only issues I had were with the high resolution screen I chose and that was solved by finding the Gnome scaling options and also launching Chrome with '\--force-device- scale-factor=1.4'.

EDIT: Oh, and swapping out the hard drive isn't super easy any more. It's a matter of watching a Youtube video then everything goes smoothly, rather than look at the bottom of the laptop and everything goes smoothly.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> I wish there were some specific rules on the internet for discussing hardware. Things just always have a way of breaking down into practically religious points of view.

I'm going to toss a couple of things out there:

1\. If you are saying that literally nothing works, everything is awful, and that computer X is just complete garbage, then a few things pop into my head:

a) I start wondering if maybe you are just bad at computers, b) I suspect that you are probably talking about a computer your work bought for you that isn't your preferred OS, and c) I decide that you really aren't contributing anything useful to the conversation.

2\. By the same token, when I see people writing that everything works flawlessly I think a couple of things as well:

a) you probably aren't doing anything that interesting with it, b) you are talking about a machine you are personally invested in rather than one bought for you by your work, and c) you really aren't adding anything useful to the conversation.

Here's the bottom line, from my point of view--as well as my point of view:

I spent my own money on and use two mac laptops, a windows laptop, and a Linux desktop.

From work, I have a mac laptop and a windows laptop, and a windows desktop.

All of these computers have benefits and drawbacks. The baseline of shit that just needs to work actually works on all of them, most of the time. Weird things go wrong from time to time. I find the Linux desktop to be more fiddly than the other machines at times, but not so much that it pisses me off more than apt-get makes me happy.

The windows machines are harder to get set up properly than the macs for working with dynamic languages, but they are the best choice for working on the Microsoft dev stack. Duh.

The macs have some real problems as well for certain parts of statistical work. Homebrew + anaconda + Xcode-select just doesn't get the job done far too often. And deving on mac + deploying to Debian or Ubuntu can be a bunch of not-fun.

Not a one of these machines is perfect or flawless in any way, but any one of them would be acceptable for a daily driver work box.

To the people who are speaking about specific issues on specific machines, I greatly appreciate that. To the top and bottom 10% who are saying everything/nothing works, you really aren't helping much here, and I find your opinions suspiciously biased.

</comment><comment><USER49> With Apple's hardware in the shitter, I'm hoping we see a rise of Linux- specific notebooks for developers! The _only_ reason I've stayed with OSX is because it's the _only_ mainstream and commercially supported desktop UNIX.

crossing my fingers for 2017... 10g ethernet, sd reader, USB3, USB-C, Thunderbolt, and a fricken headphone jack would be spectacular! It doesn't have to be super thin, just a manageable weight and functional form!

</comment><comment><USER50> I believe redhat staff use thinkpads (t-series and x-series)), meaning support for Linux is pretty good out of the box, and you can find a fix/ workaround for most issues on a fedora forum.

</comment><comment><USER51> My 2 cents about thinkpad, I have an x230 and am very happy with it.

3\. Same resolution but smaller monitor and smaller overall size makes for easier traveling imo.

7\. I have the exact same issue with hitting the touch pad when typing, but I've learned to go slower and avoid it.

8\. I first ordered the x230 by accident with the larger battery and was amazed at the working time of 12-15 hours but it was also quite bulky. So I re-ordered with my missing keyboard backlight and with the slimmer battery and I'm quite happy with the slimmer form-factor while still having a good 6 hours of work time.

11\. It's clearly not a media machine, it even lacks shortcut keys for pause/play media.

</comment><comment><USER52> You guys might be interested in an Archlinux centric T460 series I made on Youtube: [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLiKgVPlhUNuxgKwoVH4MM...](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLiKgVPlhUNuxgKwoVH4MMUy5MLqjAE2ux)

Suspend and networking work smoothly out of the box with systemd. The touchpad is OK using xf86-input-libinput, surprisingly the Trackpoint hardware is so bad in this model I've stopped using it.

</comment><comment><USER53> I have Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Carbon. At first, I thought I am buying an _almost_ IBM quality laptop. Craftmanship is not good, it looks cheap, screen is flickering and there is a constant 20 kHz hiss from cpu fan. Battery does not long last as it was promised (they had ads: battery life longer than macbook air's). Touchpad is not very responsive. And finally: another new type of usb- size adapter port, I have not seen anywhere else.

<comment><USER54> Very different experience with a X1 3rd generation (Broadwell). Battery life is 10h+, touchpad is butter smooth (to my surprise, better under Linux than with the original Windows 8.1), fans are stopped most of the time and the laptop is very silent. All this with Debian stable (more recently testing), so a pretty conservative set-up.

For battery life (and maybe fan noise?), have you installed "laptop-mode" or its successor "tlp" (the laptop project)? Both will tune the system automatically for AC or battery power, and it does make a huge difference for battery life. If you don't use either, you should really try them: the 5 mn installation time will be a good investment ;)

Main issue on my side: I bought it just after it was announced, and Linux support was so-so (functional, but annoying glitches and stability problems). Next time, I'll wait for the new models to be out and will buy the last gen one on the cheap --- there's so little changes anyway nowadays. But now all this is gone, and Linux support is top notch.

Quality ok but not as good as I had imagined: there's now a bit of flex in one corner. Not a problem in practice, I just expected more sturdiness from a TP.

</comment></comment><comment> VvR-Ox I have a Macbook Pro 2014 (new; i5-4 / 8GB / SSD) and a Thinkpad X220 (refurbished; i5-2 / 16GB / SSD).

Clearly the chicklet keyboard of the MBP is the best of this kind, I ever used. The oldschool keyboard of the TP (it is the last without this chicklets) is the best keyboard I ever typed on.

The touchpad of the TP is disgusting. I deactivated it minutes after first boot and haven't enabled it again. The Touchpad of the MBP is the best touchpad I ever used. The multitouch gestures work flawlessly, I never hit it while typing and it is big enough to use two hands (preferred for some actions).

So it's a comparrison of apples and pears ;-)

The Mac is better for grapical stuff and everything visual. It's OS & Hardware are optimized for that. It's Design is overrated as it is pretty but doesn't provide more aesthetic value to me than the good old TP, but this is very subjective and many may disagree with me in this point.

The TP is better for Linux / Dev / Coding. The keyboard has enough keys to comfortably control everything without a mouse. If you need a pointer, use the red knub. Once learned you can nearly "beam" the pointer to where it shall be.

Don't want to miss one of them, I love both <3

</comment><comment><USER55> I think the best possible laptop for development that is not too expensive is simply a macbook pro unibody 2012, with a SSD and 16GB RAM. I still costs about 1000$ and you have to buy a SSD and RAM though they are reusable.

Connectivity : It's the last macbook pro to have both a ethernet port and a DVD slot. And you have one of the new thunderbolt ports and a firewire port.

The i5 processor is still good. The only drawback is the screen (and the GPU). But for development it doesn't matter, and for my part, I watch movies on it without any problem. With SSD and RAM you have a computer that is as fast as the latest macbook pro.

It is solid and quite beautiful like all Apple portable computers. The battery is not very powerful (about 5 hours web browsing with chrome), but you can easily get external batteries (like the ThinkPad).

It is easy to install linux on it with the new boot system, though I like macOS because it is still Unix and has a lot of convenient apps and more softwares (and I can still install most of linux apps with macports or compile them myself).

</comment><comment><USER56> I have a Lenovo laptop at home that is quite old now (A dual-core machine that I used throughout university). I am not sure which one it is, but I have been running Ubuntu on it for quite some time now, and it is actually the only of my devices that has always worked perfectly with a vanilla ubuntu installation.

Recently running 16.04 on it as well, once again an update without any issues.

Whilst on my other machines (An HP laptop and custom destkop) I always had _some_ problems with Ubuntu or other flavours of Linux. The HP laptop had the movie player problem mentioned here in the post, and had some issues with running Skype webcam/voice-chat.

The desktop had an issue of freezing up randomly, and some audio issues at first.

Currently Ubuntu is running on all these machines, but the old Lenovo laptop was the only one that in all these years worked without any issues.

</comment><comment><USER57> I've seen shops on the internet selling "linux specific" PC's. Has anyone ever tried these ?

See [https://system76.com/](https://system76.com/) for example.

<comment><USER58> I bought a laptop from them 7-8 years ago because I felt paying for an OS then putting Gnu/Linux onto it was a waste of money (the Dell XPS is just as expensive as the Windows one, so I think I got this wrong). It worked really great, but, was ugly as sin. The body seemed 10 years out of date even back then (there were more modern looking laptops in the 90s). I think the Dell XPS linux is the only nice looking linux laptop that I am aware of. Given Apples dropping the ball for UNIX devs, I hope this space gets better.

</comment></comment><comment><USER59> I've been using a CTO T440s with Intel WiFi option the last few years, running Debian and Arch Linux. I switched the HD for a SSD when I bought the machine. Initially I was somewhat disappointed because early reviewers seem to have gotten a better panel for the IPS display option then the later models had. The keyboard is good but not great: it has been replaced within warranty because some keys came off – the tiny plastic clips on the key caps had broken off. Lenovo serviced the machine for free within 2 days, even in Northern Europe, which is way better service than the people around me with Apple hardware have ever gotten.

Apart from that the laptop has been absolutely stable and silent most of the time. I'd rate it better than average, just below the old IBM Thinkpads (e.g. T42) and Macbook Pros mostly because I wish they'd make the keyboard and trackpad feel a bit more solid like the one on a Macbook Pro. I'd step on a T42, not so much on the T440s.

While it's not perfect, I'd consider buying it again, especially as a Linux user.

</comment><comment><USER60> Did they make a 460s version of the 460 this time around?

<comment><AUTHOR> They have 'workhorse' 460p (less mobile but stronger CPUs IMO) and a more expensive 'ultra book' 460s, plus the X1 Carbon.

For the Carbon there seems to be a recent version released (in the US): [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13286150](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13286150) (maybe they plan to substitude the 460s?)

<comment><USER61> 460p is not cheaper, it's the 'pro' version with more powerful GPU.

<comment><AUTHOR> Corrected this. I think they are more powerful but less mobile?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER62> I have the T450s, and it's a great laptop for sure. But as someone who has owned laptops from the previous IBM ThinkPad series, there is a noticeably deterioration in quality ever since Lenovo took over. Is it only my laptop or have others noticed this as well?

<comment><USER63> I have also T450 and have had older ThinkPad's as well. And yes the quality is tad worse than it used to, but for me still better than others I've used.

</comment></comment><comment><USER64> T440S user here: The thing broke already 3 times in two years. The quality of Thinkpads is rapidly declining. I'm going to move away from Thinkpads after being satisfied for about 15 years. Also the moves Lenovo recently did is a blocker.

</comment><comment><USER65> Say what you will, but Apple does make the best PC hardware. I used to run Linux (Mint) off of the 2013 MacBook Air. Now running Ubuntu on 2014 13" MBP. If you want a great Linux laptop, go to Ebay and get a used 13" or 15" inch MBP or Air and put a Linux on it. About everything will be better than with plasticy alternatives with inferior trackpads and mouse buttons.

Some sort of matrix of what Apple HW will work with Linux is found from here: [https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Apple](https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Apple) (but do your own research too)

<comment><USER5> > Say what you will, but Apple does make the best PC hardware.

Maybe a 4+ years ago, but this is less true today.

You must not have used recent Thinkpads or prosumer/business Dell laptops. It would probably blow your mind to learn they some even have the same touchpad hardware controllers. Sure, OS X has better software touchpad support, but the hardware is often identical.

Furthermore, the serviceability of RAM, SSD and battery on an Apple is typically non-existent while trivial on things like the Dell Precision line. And from my experience, most people who run Linux tend to tinker with things as opposed to buy a blackbox and never open it.

> Some sort of matrix of what Apple HW will work with Linux is found from > here: > [https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Apple](https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Apple) > (but do your own research too)

That is handy, thanks for sharing! I wrestled with Linux on a 2012 rMBP before when HiDPI support was rough, and this would have saved me some time. :)

<comment><USER66> I think Apple still does a better job with the chassis. My ThinkPad is all plastic and flexes a lot. My MacBook seems much sturdier.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER67> The x201 is a 12" ThinkPad model with i5 2.5 ghz, unfortunately only DDR2 but jam in an SSD and it's a crazy bargain for ~$100 on eBay.

Coreboot support too if that's your kind of thing.

Stay away from the tablet x201, forget that noise.

<comment><USER68> Core i5 would not be DDR2.

<comment><USER69> Correct, all three-figure models are at least DDR3. The X20x support up to 8 GB (2x 4 GB).

Edit: And no, they really don't support more. The memory controller only supports 2 Gb chips, so with two ranks per channel you only get 2x 4 GB. (Intel i7-600, i5-500 series processor datasheet, section 2.1.1).

<comment><USER68> The datasheets are often outdated. See [http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20100923006778/en/Sams...](http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20100923006778/en/Samsung- Mass-Producing-40nm-class-8GB-DDR3-Module) for an example.

<comment><USER69> Yes, such things are often outdated, but the availability of different memory chips does not change existing hardware. The MC _really_ doesn't support it, there is no way to change anything about that...

I believe there were other chips at the time that supported more than 8 GB (i7-9xxM perhaps), but these are a different die (Clarksdale quad cores, ie. high end mobile chips that are selected desktop chips).

<comment><USER68> And if you read [http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/core/core-...](http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/core/core-i7-900-mobile- ee-and-mobile-processor-series-vol-1-datasheet.html) , it does not say anything about 4Gbit DDR3 either.

<comment><USER69> The difference is that with the one DS we know it's accurate because anything beyond 2 Gb simply doesn't work. So that DS is accurate. On the other hand we know that with Clarksdale more than 2 Gb does, in fact, work, just like they work on Lynnfield. As one would expect, it's the same silicon after all.

If you'd excuse me now, I believe my work here is done ;)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER70> I can recommend switching Xorg Intel to the Xorg Modeset driver if you are using Linux with Intel based graphics. The stability of the modeset driver is much better than the Intel Xorg driver.

[https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/intel_graphics](https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/intel_graphics) [https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video- mode...](https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-modesetting)

</comment><comment><USER71> I bought a TP s540 3 years ago, and a few days after the end of the warranty, the motherboard died. Lenovo was ok to replace it for free. 3 months after, the motherboard died again and this time, no free replacement. The s540 was really cheaper, but without 3y warranty, without full mil-specs. If you want reliability, choose T/X series. 3Y warranty on site is already included, a proof they trust these products. If you add the optional warranty on cheaper products, the price is higher than equivalent on T series.

</comment><comment><USER72> I develop on a T460S. I dual boot Windows 10 and Debian Stretch, though Bash on Ubuntu on Windows has kept me mostly in Windows lately. I prefer this ThinkPad to the previous generation; it's back to having actual mouse buttons.

My only complaint is the lack of graphical oomph; gaming isn't really a thing this machine does, though it's okay at it. Then again, if that's what I was going for, I probably should have bought something else.

</comment><comment><USER73> I could buy 3 equivalent laptops (finding IPS might be a problem) for the price. Is the Thinkpad brand really worth that much?

<comment><USER74> You can get a 13" 1920x1080 IPS panel on a Chromebook for about $350. With ~5 minutes of labor (swapping in an SSD) you can install Linux natively on it with GalliumOS.

Full details can be found here:

[https://nickjanetakis.com/blog/transform-a-toshiba- chromeboo...](https://nickjanetakis.com/blog/transform-a-toshiba-chromebook- cb35-into-a-linux-development-environment-with-galliumos)

Been using it for a few months now for development and it's been great.

</comment></comment><comment><USER75> I have a X240 (12.5" version of the T440) for about 2.5 years now, and while indeed being super quiet when it's new, today the fan is almost always on, even if it's only on the lowest speed. Probably need to open it up and give it a good cleaning, and/or replace the thermal paste between the CPU and cooler.

<comment><USER31> I did that with 2009 thinkpad and it got much worse. I guess the cheap paste I used was worse than the 6 year old paste lenovo had used :(

What _did_ help was to take out the fan, clean it and then oil it carefully (too much oil or doing so without cleaning it first will only make things worse). You can also buy replacement fans, although original fans are quite expensive.

<comment><USER76> Thermal paste shouldn't be matter much.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER77> Ran Macs for the last decade.

Started experimenting with an x230 + FreeBSD -HEAD (i3wm) about a year ago. It took a while to get setup, but everything works, including resume.

Just started using Ubuntu 16.04 on a X1 Carbon 4th gen. Pretty flawless install, except it won't correctly boot an encrypted LVM.

</comment><comment><USER78> I bought a Dell Inspiron 13 7000 earlier this year. i7, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD, touch screen, convertible.

Ubuntu works flawlessly on it with the exception of not auto-rotating the screen when you fold it (you can set up a hotkey to do that, so not a big deal.)

</comment><comment><USER79> If only Lenovo consistently offered bright screens with good color reproduction.

<comment> amiga-workbench Have you ever used a T420 before? The panel on that thing is so hilariously poor you have to wonder how it got past QA.

</comment></comment><comment><USER80> T460s is the better quality one but last I looked didn't have the latest i7 processors which is a shame.

Always loved thinkpads and if I was to buy a developer laptop today would probably be a thinkpad with Linux on it.

</comment><comment><USER71> And 3 years warranty on site, not optional (alreay included in the price).

</comment><comment><USER81> I personally quite like these guys: [https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/](https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/)

</comment><comment><USER82> I have a T420 and finally just updated to a Dell E5470 (8V22N).

All of Lenovo's offerings seem overpriced as with the industry as a whole.

</comment><comment><USER83> I bought a ThinkPad X200 off of ebay for $400. SSD, 8gb ram, put Arch on it with zero issues, 8 hour battery, I love it.

</comment><comment><USER31> I am sure it is a great laptop, but it also looks like a X1 with larger bezels. Why would you want that instead of X1?

<comment><USER12> The X1 does not offer docking stations nor does it offer the port range that a T460s offers (full ethernet, card reader, etc). The T460s is a few mm thicker than the X1 and about 200g heavier, but it shares a lot of hardware with and can use the same dock as the X260, T460 and T460p which is interesting if you're a business customer that wants to support a range of options from ultra-portable to powerful.

If you're a single freelance person or consumer, the X1 may be the more appealing choice.

<comment><USER84> The X1 does offer the OneLink+ docking station and soon will offer a TB3 docking station.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER85> Didn't even add a bullet point for the TrackPoint!

It used to be that ThinkPads had great keyboards too, pity about the chiclets.

</comment><comment><USER86> Did lenovo get rid of the ThinkLight? (The keyboard illumination from above)

<comment><USER87> I don't have a newer one to check right now, but on the Tx30 series they had both the ThinkLight and the newly-introduced backlit keyboard, with lighting cycling from off - keyboard dim - keyboard bright - ThinkLight.

ThinkWiki is unclear on its presence - The T460s is listed as a model with it, but the Tx50 models seem absent.

</comment></comment><comment><USER88> Hmm, I find it hard to get over how old fashioned ThinkPad keyboards look.

</comment><comment><USER89> despite so many problems that OP stated, he's still recommending it!

<comment><USER31> Different people have different needs. This laptop despite its minor flaws was in the end the best option for his particular needs

...or as a HN user said a while back:

        tuananh 42 days ago | parent [-] | on: Why the MacBook Pro Is Limited to 16GB of RAM

        all of this largely depends on personal preference.

        to me, i value battery so much more.

:)

<comment><USER89> maybe it's just me.

it seems when people recommends stuff that has many flaws like this, it seems they set the standard pretty low and i find it hard to take the recommendation.

</comment></comment></comment><comment> vladimir-y T470 serie is coming

</comment><comment><USER90> Still frustrating when you compare Apples to Oranges. You carry extra weight of Linux here: Weight as a Macbook Pro 15" but CPU performance (passmark) of a good Macbook Air 11" 2013 [http://www.cpu-monkey.com/de/compare_cpu- intel_core_i5_6200u...](http://www.cpu-monkey.com/de/compare_cpu- intel_core_i5_6200u-590-vs-intel_core_i7_4650u-436) & display SRGB coverage 61.55% according to Notebookcheck (Macbook Air 55,2%). No real improvements on Lenovo's side. For that money (if battery is a requirement) better buy a 13" Macbook Air (it's also 500-600 grams lighter).

<comment><USER12> You're comparing the entry-level Thinkpad CPU with the Top-Level Macbook CPU - not surprising that the 3 year old top level CPU compares well with the entry level of this year. It's not like the faster CPUs for the Thinkpad will be any heavier. The author also deliberately chose the "regular" T460 model instead of the lighter, more integrated (and thus less serviceable) T460s. The T460s is at least comparable in weight and power. The screen is a bit of a toss-up: I like the macbook screen since it's sturdy and doesn't scratch, but I also like the Thinkpad screen since it's not glossy.

<comment><USER90> Also comparing that by intention: A new Macbook Air 13" with top level i7 CPU (early 2015) is in the same price region or even cheaper and outperforms his setup slightly. But it also does not meet his requirements with 16GB of RAM.

<comment><USER12> So yes, you can get lighter laptops that can't handle 16GB RAM and have a lower-res screen (and a worse onboard graphics) card for a comparable price. But you specifically were comparing weight and power - and that's not entirely an apple - to - apple comparison you're doing here.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Apple Rejecting Hillary Apps and Not Trump Apps - <AUTHOR> I am an IOS game developer on the side and I love making niche games. A couple months ago I made a game about trump and it was a pretty big hit! Last week I made a game about Hillary Clinton that is pretty simple. Her head follows your finger around the screen and you have to run away from the emails and get them in the trash can. Its a pretty fun harmless game. I submitted it to the App Store and it got rejected under the premise of "defaming and mean spirited". I was pretty upset but not as upset as I was after I saw the all of the trump games on the app store. I kid you not, there are games where you poop on him and turn him in to poop - it's pretty ridiculous. I am not a trump supporter, I just think it's stupid that they play the double standard and accept games about Trump and not Hillary <comment><USER2> Trump apps are also getting rejected. I have a friend who had his rejected from the app store, so now they are web only [1].

[1] - [http://www.thegoparcade.com/](http://www.thegoparcade.com/)</comment>


PHP vs. Rails on Squidoo - <AUTHOR> http://www.squidoo.com/php-vs-rails

<comment><USER2> This might be better titled as Frameworks vs. Languages. Of course, since most people writing modular code will end up making a framework for their application, it's really Shelf Frameworks vs. In-House Frameworks.

Of course, there's also a third option, niche open source frameworks (every PHP developer and their dog has a PHP framework, and not all of them suck). Chances are, if you look hard enough, you'll be able to find an OSS framework in the language you need that would be fairly similar to one you'd make yourself. If the code is well designed, you can simply cut out what you don't need and add what you do.</comment>


Silicon Valley's Youth Problem: profile of Meraki and tech's two cultures (2014) - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/16/magazine/silicon-valleys-youth-problem.html <comment><USER2> I interned at Meraki summer of 2017. I have never heard of a company poaching employees as viscously as Samsara is from Meraki. Based on that I would say that Meraki is on the loosing side of "cool".

I also wonder if Cisco would have changed their acquisition offer if they knew how many employees would be poached.</comment>


Ask HN: Looking for ideas - <AUTHOR>

Hi,
My question is: Where/how will I come by great ideas (or even okay ideas)?
I have the technical skills to make any idea happen, however I feel like every time I start thinking of ideas, I hit blank (I call this programmers block).
I read that I need to meet with people who have different backgrounds or in completely different work spaces, as they see things very different than we(developers) see.
I would love to meet up with total strangers, with good intents of course, I just don't know where to find said people. <comment><USER2> This truly is the thousand/million/billion(?) dollar question. If you figure it out, be sure to write a follow up post.

Look around your local area for meetups for a language you enjoy, interact and participate with the Open Source community if that is not possible, and paradoxically the harder you try to think of the Next Big Thing the harder time your brain will have. Start off first by building something you think is cool and not necessarily a great idea.

<comment><AUTHOR> I am not looking for the next best thing, just something fun and exciting, that can bring in an extra revenue stream.

<comment><USER2> Then research any startup incubators. There are ones specifically in Toronto, for example, that server to pair teams with their missing link whether that is design, programming a backend, or building a MVP, or brainstorming ideas. Placing yourself in situations like this will not guarantee success but will increase the associated probabilities.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Move to a city with a concentration of people in the Industry you want to work in i.e Silicon Valley for Technology, New York for Finance , Paris for Fashion etc. Whilst it doesn't guarantee success, it will increase your odds. Remember whatever idea you come up with doesn't really matter, what matters is execution.

<comment><AUTHOR> Moving seems a bit impractical just for an idea. But I do hear where you come from, when you say surrounding myself with people of an industry I have an interest in.

<comment><USER4> Hi, maybe here is your idea. Build something to connect people to share their thought and to help each other to come up or to make partnership to start something interesting.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Find an area in your city where there's a bunch of businesses. Pop your head in. Ask questions.

Look up patio11's story of how he created Appointment Reminder. Pretty much what he did.</comment>


ZenQuery is now open source - <AUTHOR> http://wilmsmann.fullmontty.com/2014/12/20/zenquery-is-now-open-source/

<comment><USER2> This is a neat idea, with lots of clean source code. First off, sorry it didn't work out as a business. Agree with you that it has a place in the enterprise, and that marketing to the enterprise is a huge job.

I would very much like a demo or two or at least working endpoints backed by a little data (the ones at [https://github.com/BjoernKW/ZenQuery#formats](https://github.com/BjoernKW/ZenQuery#formats) don't work); unfortunately like many of us I don't have as much time as I'd like to delve into the code w/out examples.</comment>


Should we (as tech folks) start something to protect the climate? - <AUTHOR> It seems like our new government is hell bent on removing science from our world. What can we do to make sure it doesn't get removed and can still be found and trusted by those intelligent enough to not just blindly trust their president's words
I see these Twitter accounts as starts, but there is surely more that this band of people can do?
https://twitter.com/RogueNASA https://twitter.com/AltNatParkSer <comment><USER2> For one: We should make sure that trump doesn't gut net neutrality. That is at least something we can speak authoritatively about.</comment>


A new bill could punish web platforms for using end-to-end encryption - <AUTHOR> https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/31/21116788/earn-it-act-section-230-lindsey-graham-draft-bill-encryption <comment><USER2> [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22202110](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22202110)

</comment><comment><USER3> A classic case of the 4 horsemen of the infocolypse [1] invoked to threaten digital liberties.

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalyp...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalypse)

</comment><comment><USER4> This Graham/Blumenthal duo is out to finish off the remainders of the independent internet in the name of children. Even separately from encryption, it is likely that the required technical threshold (likely non-trivial ML models) and the legal complexity of automatically censoring user uploads will be above the capabilities of most small independent forums, remaining popular independent sites like Mastodon instances, 4chan (which has already been effectively demonetized by the advertisers), etc. The authors of the bill don't mind: it's easier to deal with the professional lobbyists of a couple of monopolistic giants than with a bunch of nuisance small websites.

</comment><comment><USER5> See also the discussion of Pfefferkorn's critique of EARN IT which is linked from this article: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22202110](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22202110)

<comment><USER6> Even the title of the bill is so infuriatingly patronizing and un-American. "You want to stay out of jail? Why don't you EARN IT by letting us snoop in on your customers?" Disgusting.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Part of me wonders if this will just accelerate the usage of protocols that don't have a centralized entity to host content. If there's no need for the Section 230 protection, this adjustment is irrelevant.

<comment><USER8> This is a seductive and false type of thinking we're susceptible to.

The law _matters_. If the protocol you're imagining is created, it'll be fought at the carrier level.

Just because piracy hasnt been squashed yet doesnt mean we'll be able to hack our way around obstacles forever

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Attorney General Barr: We're having a really hard time gathering evidence against child predators because of all this end-to-end encryption.

Also Attorney General Barr: Sure, Epstein's New Mexico ranch was an epicenter of his elite child trafficking ring but there's really no need for the FBI to raid it anytime soon.</comment>


Google: A "startpage" filled with ads - <AUTHOR> Remember back in the 90:s when your browser "start page" was your favorite home-page, and that everyone wanted you to have "their" web-page as your start-page!?
Why is it now that whatever you type in the browser address bar, you get directed to one of those "start pages" filled with ads?
Why can't the browser automatically spider the web-pages I visit and take me to the one most relevant to my search? Without showing a bunch of ads and giving away my privacy?
I know Firefox, Opera, etc makes 99% of their income from these ad filled start-pages and by selling your privacy. But why do they get away with it? <comment><USER2> > _Why is it now that whatever you type in the browser address bar, you get > directed to one of those "start pages" filled with ads?_

It's not your web browser, it's your ISP. It sounds like your ISP is hijacking NXDOMAIN to serve ads. If you have Tomato or DD-WRT you can fix this.

[http://hackercodex.com/guide/how-to-stop-isp-dns-server- hija...](http://hackercodex.com/guide/how-to-stop-isp-dns-server-hijacking/)

If that doesn't fix it, you probably have malware.

<comment><USER3> I'm leaning towards malware. Tons of applications install those oh-so-helpful "toolbars" that clamp into your browser and start hijacking pages and popping ads under and over your window.

Even the _Java setup program_ tries to install these things now.

</comment></comment><comment> vertex-four What start page filled with ads? Neither Chrome nor Firefox do this. Chrome's start page contains either my installed Chrome "apps", or frequently visited pages. I think Firefox's is just a Firefox-branded version of the Google search page, but I can't remember and am away from my desktop atm.

</comment><comment><USER4> Because no one will work for free on the development side and no one will pay for search on the consumer side?

</comment><comment><USER5> > I know Firefox, Opera, etc makes 99% of their income from these ad filled > start-pages and by selling your privacy. But why do they get away with it?

You can just not use them if you dislike them.

</comment><comment><USER6> My knee-jerk reaction is that adware has infected your machine, particularly your browser. Or are you saying that the Google SERP is analogous to a start- page filled with ads?

I'm confused.

</comment><comment><USER7> I'm not sure I understand your problem? Or at least I can't relate it to anything I've seen as a fairly heavy Firefox user.

</comment><comment><USER8> What's wrong with setting your browser homepage to about:blank? It's worked fine for me for over a decade.

</comment><comment><USER9> If you're worried about privacy, why not use duckduckgo?

</comment><comment><USER10> isnt that the "im feeling lucky" feature?</comment>


Ask HN: What do you learn from technical videos and how? - <AUTHOR> I watch a fair share of technical video on youtube and other similar platforms. But after watching video, I get the feeling that I didn't learn much and wasted 30-60 minute on watching that video. I want to know if people really learn from these videos and how? <comment><USER2> I prefer videos with transcript. Not all videos or parts are interesting or valuable for me.

As was already mentioned, shorter videos are better. It can keep up your engagement. One bad example is Microsoft virtual academy. I wasn't able watch neither one full video. Udacity of tedx or coursera are good examples.

Also if its very interesting topic i am taking some notes. Pencil and paper should improve memorize process (don't have citation right now, writing from mobile) but my font is terrible and slow (if it has to be readable) Electronic notes are much better for me, i can search, format, paste screens and diagrams, even from screenshots video.

If i am watching tutorials, am doing all steps in parallel. Very often with google at next screen due to different version , syntax, whatever.

After all i am taking notes with step-by-step procedure what and how i did it. Sometimes also with description why.I prefer videos with transcript. Not all videos or parts are interesting or valuable for me.

As was already mentioned, shorter videos are better. It can keep up your engagement. Ona bad example is Microsoft virtual academy. I wasn't able watch neither one full video.

But everyone have to find own way what is best way for him.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah, I think taking notes might help. Also I watch at faster speed some times.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> It is possible to learn from online video, but I think its important to follow along by typing in the examples. That's the only way anything has ever "stuck" for me with video. This tends to significantly increase the time spent getting through a series, but when you're done, you would have absorbed the material.

I'm not a fan of long video series myself, so I tend to prefer something like Udacity where the videos are shorter but you spend more time doing challenges. Lynda.com also has shorter videos compared to something like Pluralsight where the videos are a lengthy investment but cover a lot of ground.

</comment><comment><USER4> It depends on the quality of the content. Be more specific what kind of technical video you watch.

</comment><comment><USER5> I don't watch technical videos often but I always find it help to write down any key points or things I find interesting while watching ling videos. If you save them all in one place with a source and date then it'll be very easy to find later if you need it.</comment>


Let's remove all this karma/reputation/friend_count *beep* - <AUTHOR>

The whole concept of karma is really painful and not only in the context of HN. It's like the GDP, it says absolutely nothing valuable about a country. In a place where people are healthy, food is good and grown locally, the GDP would inherently be lower then in a country spending billions after a nuclear melt down.
For those considering reputation/karma as an indicator of aptitude, I think I'm not the only one who would definitely NOT hire someone with a huge HN "karma" or stackoverflow "reputation". Having lots of points in these games means that the person has spent a lot of time submitting content, answering questions and commenting. I consider that this time would have been better used to write open source code, to directly teach neighbors, teenagers, friends or if the person is a real expert, to create a website with all the good advices, tips, tricks or simply contribute to a wikibook. <comment><USER2> By answering questions on stackoverflow, the person is essentially teaching neighbors, teenagers, and "friends" by creating an open "wikibook".

Teaching is one of the best ways to learn something. If you can successfully teach a concept, then it shows deep understanding.

As long as HN or stackoverflow doesn't take up too much productivity, having a high reputation/karma could be a good thing. It shows passion.

</comment><comment><USER3> It's still useful for gaining privileges on websites such as deleting, downvoting and editing others' post. But I have to agree with you, it doesn't make a person any better, just more active on the website.

</comment><comment><USER4> _Having lots of points in these games means that the person has spent a lot of time submitting content, answering questions and commenting. I consider that this time would have been better used to write open source code, to directly teach neighbors, teenagers, friends or if the person is a real expert, to create a website with all the good advices, tips, tricks or simply contribute to a wikibook._

Really? Should people also spend all their time contributing to open source instead of exercising? Cooking? Painting? Why judge someone's technical merit on the fact that they find it enjoyable and stimulating to spend some of their free time actively participating in online communities?

</comment><comment><USER5> Karma is just a metric and should be treated as such. If someone is judging someone else by their karma score, that says more about the judger than the judgee.

</comment><comment><USER6> It's not a bad way to gauge your own knowledge and expertise. If others generally find your advice/tip/suggestion useful, you will know when they up vote you.

I agree karma isn't the end-all-be-all solution, but it may serve as a reality check for those who think they are hot stuff. It can be both a humbling tool as well as a confidence booster.

</comment><comment><USER7> At least make it non-public.</comment>


Stanford archaeologist traces the origins of authority to the Andes of Peru - <AUTHOR> https://news.stanford.edu/2016/04/25/stanford-archaeologist-traces-origins-authority-andes-peru/ <comment><USER2> So this is where authoritarianism arose? And it propagated to other places how? Or is this mostly conjecture and lots of guesswork?

I like fantasy and imagination as much as the next person but I think drawing stark conclusions from architecture and "graffiti" should be taken with a grain of salt. And I guess ancient Egyptians were not authoritarian, or, what exactly were they?

<comment><USER3> I don't think the headline aligns with the article, at all.

The article is reporting academic work that postulates the elements that moved people from bands to authoritarianism, and how this particular Lima, Peru site highlights this anthropologic theory, rather than identifying a specific location where, pandemic-like, authority began.

<comment><AUTHOR> That is a much nicer interpretation of the article. I didn't get that out of it, but after reading your comment, and re-reading the article, perhaps the archaeologist meant that, but the reporter failed to make that clear. I can certainly believe that.

<comment><USER4> I think the archaeologist almost surely meant this and the reporter completely screwed up the story.

It would be functionally insane to think that authoritarianism came fundamentally out of a New World archaeological site that is 3000 years ago. For example, in order to sustain this belief you would have to believe that someone from this culture traveled to Africa and then invented time travel, so that they could go back to the mid-2000s BC and give the idea to the Old- Kingdom Egyptians.

Just to give some numbers by rectal extraction: I am about 98% sure that a seasoned academic from Stanford would not be so clumsy with his speech as to say outright that he thought this had happened; I am only maybe 75% sure that a given reporter understands a given scientist's research, so given that we have this report I'd estimate .98 * .25 / (.98 * .25 + .02 * .75) = 94% chance that the reporter misunderstood the scientist, and only a 6% chance that the scientist really believes what the reporter was saying. It's possible but I definitely think it's highly unlikely.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Yeah, because authority isn't natural in animals, primates included, and people never accumulate more than others in basic economies, and never use power or influence over others...

<comment><USER6> Projecting human social structures onto animal interactions almost always results in wrong conclusions about both.

<comment><USER7> Humans are animals.

<comment><USER8> ...for all definitions of animals that don't exclude humans, yes. Humans have unique characteristics that are central here, like effective use of abstract language, social stratification, and socially managed resources.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> > ... visitors were elite pilgrims, local leaders from far-flung parts of the > Central Andes. These people were looking for justification to elevate their > own status and their positions of control in society. After their > experiences at Chavín, they would use the experiences to more adroitly > disseminate messages of authority to their own people, the researchers said.

Just like visitors to Burning Man, Coachella and Davos

<comment><USER2> Sort of but not really. I don't think Putin or Xi or Assad gained further authority by attending any of those. I say sort of because it depends on how much you are willing to distort the meaning of "authoritarianism".

<comment><USER9> Those guys have already kind of maxed out their authority. Anyway, they're more like the high priests in this analogy.

What about the high school senior who's looking to be the next student body president, or the mid level manager looking to be promoted into the executive layer?

Build status. Increase your level of authority.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Interested people should see this team-up by anthropologist David Graeber and archaeologist David Wengrow: [https://vimeo.com/145285143](https://vimeo.com/145285143)

They're writing a book on the topic of the origins of inequality. One interesting thing is how seasonal it was. (After all, for maybe 75k years, humans could theorize about society as well as any of us.) Fairly recently, we made temporary structures of hierarchy permanent.

</comment><comment><USER11> Related: has anyone here read "Society Against the State"[1]? I've been meaning to start reading it but haven't as of yet. It's a set of essays; supposed to be based on some good anthropological work done by Clastres.

If you have, interested to hear critical etc thoughts on his views.

[1]: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Clastres#Society_Agains...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Clastres#Society_Against_the_State)

</comment><comment><USER12> So it was basically a leadership conference in the Andes. Happy hour must have been a fun time!

</comment><comment><USER13> We = apes. Apes social structure = hierarchy. Problem solved. Gimme my PHD please.

</comment><comment><USER14> And from there it came to China and India?

<comment> norea-armozel More like, the same tools were implemented everywhere about the same time. For example, exploiting water sources as part of your tools to control people is a big part of early empire building efforts in China and Mesopotamia. Without water you really can't grow much food. And without a regular source of food you're easier to kill off without risking soldiers. So, it stands to reason that our civilization went down this path due to the factors of production regarding agriculture. All it would take is a few strong and organized bands of thugs to manhandle the rest of the population. Add religion or some weird myth to back up authenticity of the authority then you got a solid base from which to expand and influence other areas. It's also why areas like Zomia came into being as empires clashed then people got tired of the nonsense and fled quite literally for the foothills of mountain ranges. It seems to me it's odd the anthropologists didn't notice this pattern in the stories, written records, and art of each culture examined. It's a hard pattern to miss. I wonder if we as a civilization have become so indoctrinated in seeing authority as authentic and desirable that we can't see how often it's propped up by fear of reprisal and blind faith.</comment></comment>