The Hacker Shelf: Collection of free books for the intellectually curious - <AUTHOR> http://hackershelf.com/browse/?popular=1 <comment><USER3> It's crazy to prefer free technical books just because they're free.

If you're reading a math textbook, or a CS textbook, or any but the most fluffy programming book, then you're giving it so much of your time and attention that any cost up to $100 is meaningless next to how much one book is better or worse than another.

I see people living in the First World and saying things like "I wanted to learn calculus from this very well-recommended book, but it costs $50, so I got this reprint of an older textbook for $15". You're basing your choice of the guide to challenging material that you predict will be tough to understand on the cost of a dinner and a movie. Textbooks are not commodities! Some of them are really good and others are really bad and it depends on the student, too. It isn't always that the more expensive one is better, to be sure. Often it's just the opposite. I'm saying you should just forget about price altogether and choose based on sampling/reviews/recommendations.

Things may be difficult for someone truly in dire poverty, or someone living in a poor country where $50 is more like the month's earnings. Those people should just go to gen.lib.rus.ec and download everything.

<comment><USER4> If $100 seems like a meaningless amount of money to you, then nothing I say here will make you understand what it feels like when that's practically an infinite amount of money. I've been on both sides of this and it's pretty hard to understand one side from the point of view of the other.

I hope you'll just take my word for it that $100 is _not_ a meaningless amount of money to most people.

<comment><USER5> This is one of the reasons that public libraries are so important. It's still true that textbooks are a good investment even for the very poor - $100 is less than 15 hours at minimum wage, and you'll learn more from 35 hours of studying a good textbook than 50 hours of studying a bad one. But part of the crushing burden of poverty is that it prevents you from making good investments. It doesn't matter how much time that $100 investment will save in the future if there's just no way you can spare the money now. So we as a society should be doing whatever we can to give people access to these resources.

<comment><USER4> _part of the crushing burden of poverty is that it prevents you from making good investments_

Exactly.

A car might be a better use of your time than three buses. Too bad. You can only afford the buses.

Some strong work boots would be a better investment than these cheap knock- offs. Too bad. I only have enough money for the knock-offs.

Paying my parking tickets would be a lot smarter than ending up in court. Too. Bad. I don't have $30 to pay them.

An underestimated aspect of this is the _fuck it_ factor. So maybe I get the $30 to pay the tickets? So what? It's just going to be something else tomorrow. So, fuck it; I'm having a beer.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> At risk of teaching people to suck eggs, and at risk of speaking to people whose regional public library system has been defunded to the point of non- functionality; inter library loans are a beautiful thing.

My local library (in the UK) will fetch me a book from any participating library in the UK or Ireland and loan it to me for a month, for two pounds and fifty pence (a bit under four dollars at current exchange rates). They'll extend the loan if I ask and the owning library doesn't mind.

Over the past year, I've had books from university libraries up and down the country, big chunky tomes from the British Library, and books from regional library systems that happened by chance to hold a copy of whatever I was looking for. Basically, any time I come across a book I want to read, I pitch over to www.worldcat.org and see if any library in the UK holds a copy. If someone does (and sometimes it's just one library), I make an inter library loan request and a week later it's in my hands. I've been shot down twice; once when the book was subsequently found to no longer exist in the single library listed on worldcat, and once when the university library said it was in too high demand and would I mind asking again in July when the demand would have dropped.

I've had technical manuals, obscure novels, expensive books that I wanted to get my hands on for a few weeks to see if I'd use it or enjoy it enough to buy my own copy, some really niche books on the shipping industry, stupidly expensive books of compiled data, all sorts. Two pounds fifty for a month's loan is an absolute bargain.

<comment><USER7> Also worth noting that many libraries now also have eBooks available through Overdrive or similar - [http://www.overdrive.com/](http://www.overdrive.com/) (I have used this in the UK, you can also join many UK libraries for free to gain access to more collections)

<comment><USER8> Overdrive is amazing. I live in Minneapolis, MN, USA. There are about 4 library systems where I have Overdrive accounts (Minneapolis, St Paul, counties, etc). I can find most books I want. I can also find many in audiobook format, which I listen to on my commute and when walking the dog.

Personally, I would love to see more "philosophical" programming books in audio format such as "Pragmatic Thinking and Learning", or "Dynamics of Software Development".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I've picked up number of decent free ebooks from here: [https://www.packtpub.com/packt/offers/free- learning/](https://www.packtpub.com/packt/offers/free-learning/) You do have to check it every day, because it's always a different book.

I've also picked up a few decent books from [https://www.syncfusion.com/resources/techportal/EBooks](https://www.syncfusion.com/resources/techportal/EBooks)

</comment><comment><USER10> I got a masters degree in Entertainment Technology (Video Game and Theme Park Design) from CMU. They have started publishing books and articles related to their research all for free, and in various formats: [http://press.etc.cmu.edu](http://press.etc.cmu.edu) Perhaps this type of nerdy content might interest you.

</comment><comment><USER11> I think "intellectually curious" is a bit misleading.

True, most of us here are mostly interested in technology. But intellectuality is a broader term. What about philosophy, management, etc.? These all belong together in a broader sense and I would love to see a (digital) library combining these fields.

<comment><USER12> I cringe every time I see phrases connecting hackers to intellectuals. Most people in software I know are intelligent, but being smart does not make you intellectually curious. There are quite a few people I would consider hackers who have zero interest in a intellectual life beyond technology.

That's not to say they should if they aren't interested. But "intellectual" should mean more than just hacker-esque knowledge. I fear labeling your own in group as always intellectual leads down the path of believing everyone else is not worth listening to.

<comment><USER13> I think the title quite clearly means _hackers that happen to be intellectually curious_. If _technology_ and such is too narrow for you, I guess that's a fair point. We might as well go into how "smartness" is narrowly seen as the only metric which programmers are judged by, while we're at it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> This repo maintains list of free programming books - [https://github.com/vhf/free-programming-books](https://github.com/vhf/free- programming-books)

</comment><comment><USER15> The first book I clicked on is not free.

[http://hackershelf.com/book/129/97-things-every- programmer-s...](http://hackershelf.com/book/129/97-things-every-programmer- should-know/)

<comment><USER16> That was mentioned three years ago: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3589963](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3589963)

The site appears to use a loose definition of free.

<comment><USER17> > "loose definition" How so? I state quite explicitly what sort of content is > welcome. If the contents of the book are available for free from a site > controlled by the author(s) or publisher, it is free enough for the purposes > of the site. If you care enough and find a book that doesn't meet that > standard, you can flag it, and I can have a look to confirm this.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Interesting, but very first book I clicked on led to a 404 error.

[http://hackershelf.com/book/274/rails-deep- dive/](http://hackershelf.com/book/274/rails-deep-dive/)

Then the very next book I clicked on had another 404 error.

[http://hackershelf.com/book/90/big-fat- rails/](http://hackershelf.com/book/90/big-fat-rails/)

...

<comment><USER19> The books are community-curated. Those books were added in 2012. I searched for updated links to those two books and updated their entries; you should be able to read those books now.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> Cool resource, seems awesome to find tech related stuff.

However, and more related to the title than the website really, the intellectually curious should broaden their reading material to an area outside of what they do for a living. Broaden the perspective, open the mind and all that jazz.

<comment><USER17> That was my hope 1198 days ago when I started the website [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3589963](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3589963) :-) I would have titled it "Free Computer Books" otherwise. If you know of any books that fulfill the "free" condition, that would appeal to a curious mind - however you choose to define that, then feel free to submit them.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> I want to echo something suggested here already, but it's important: make libraries a part of your life.

</comment><comment><USER22> more free e-books for developers: [http://www.eduhub.io/b/free-programming- books](http://www.eduhub.io/b/free-programming-books)

</comment><comment> artumi-richard Open access science books

[http://www.intechopen.com/books](http://www.intechopen.com/books)

</comment><comment><USER23> I notice that "Natural Language Processing" and "natural language processing" in the index are different.

<comment><USER24> The same with "UNIX", "Unix" and "unix" (sic!).

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> Just putting this here for people who want free non-technical books. [https://www.gutenberg.org](https://www.gutenberg.org)

</comment><comment><USER26> The problem with this list is that a large proportion of programming texts are available free online. So in most cases it's easier to find the book your interested in, then search for a similar book with a free version.

This list would be better off with some explicit theme rather than claiming to be a list of all interesting free books, which is impossible.

</comment><comment><USER27> Interesting, in the past 3 years, this same link/post has appeared multiple times on the front page.

[https://hn.algolia.com/?query=hackershelf.com&sort=byPopular...](https://hn.algolia.com/?query=hackershelf.com&sort=byPopularity&prefix&page=0&dateRange=all&type=story)

</comment><comment><USER28> Bug note: if you're browsing by popular and add a book to your shelf, the page is kept in the query string but the popular=1 is lost so you jump to that page of date sort instead.

</comment><comment><USER29> Probably stating the obvious, but making this HTTPS (only) would be great. Not sure when I signed up the last time for something via http..

</comment><comment><USER30> Legal free technical books are very relevant for those that might not be able to purchase them.

Promo:Feel free to upload and organize your ebooks using BookFusion [[https://bookfusion.com](https://bookfusion.com)]. Our Android and IOS apps coming soon. Along with curated list of free technical eBooks

</comment><comment><USER31> Internet Archive (May 7 2015) Link: [https://web.archive.org/web/20150507073902/http://hackershel...](https://web.archive.org/web/20150507073902/http://hackershelf.com/browse/)

<comment><USER32> Thanks a lot. :) Well, I can see a couple of books here I wish I had time to read at the moment. I don't mind reading up on a topic in one book, and then later on switching to another more authorative one, should I feel I need to. However, there is always some luck involved in this. Some books covers what you need, others don't, whether they are authorative on the subject or not.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> Reading is hard for me. I would love to find something like this for audio books.

<comment><USER34> Code listings in audio books are going to be, er, interesting. I remember seeing a video of a blind coder's set up and the audio was incredible - <USER2> fast and hard to tune in to.

I think there's a service idea here - something to hook people up to others who want to read a book and are prepared to read it out aloud and record it. Build a library of books. Audio books tend to be edited mind you.

<comment><USER35> >> I think there's a service idea here - something to hook people up to others who want to read a book and are prepared to read it out aloud and record it. Build a library of books.

You mean something like Librivox? [1]

[1] [https://librivox.org/](https://librivox.org/)

<comment><USER34> Lol, yes!

Except that I was envisaging some way to suggest a book (and by extension vote for a book) so a volunteer could choose a book that was in demand.

Also I didn't figure copyright in to the equation; Librivox is for public domain works it seems.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> I think it receives some performance issues right now. But content is nice.

I maybe wrong but, couldn't see a favicon. it would be nice imho, to motivate bookmarking.

</comment><comment><USER37> I think HN has bombarded the site, it is down...

</comment><comment><USER38> | ?popular=1

nice :)

</comment><comment><USER39> Oh.. yeah 333_jlo</comment>


Lets talk PHP - <AUTHOR> The HN community is clearly (in general) anti-PHP. If HN was all you read, one would get the impression that PHP is a dying language with no jobs available for developers. This seems to be the opposite of what I have seen (as a mid-level dev with .NET & PHP experience). My 12 year old nephew is starting out his coding career with Javascript and I want to get him some experience with server side languages too where he can immediately get hacking on some real world examples (and not just 'hello world')
Lets see...the most popular (and best) CMS - Wordpress is PHP, most of the popular open-source e-commerce platforms are PHP (Woocommerce, Magento, etc), the biggest social network is PHP (Facebook), the best open source Dropbox competitor is PHP (OwnCloud), then we have Wikipedia, Moodle, Limesurvey...it seems the best competitor for commercial incumbants is an open source PHP projects every time...
So can someone illuminate me why the HN community is so anti-PHP, and why my nephew might not get a job when he finishes school (in 5 years) if all he knows is PHP & Javascript? <comment><USER2> PHP (and javascript to an extent) is a very mainstream programming language with a low barrier for entry, and isn't associated with academia, engineering or intellectual cachet. PHP is a 'lowbrow' language, and a lot of people on Hacker News want to status signal as 'highbrow', so they act like hipster elitists towards it.

Some people stopped using PHP years ago and either aren't aware, or don't care, that it like other languages has evolved and improved over time.

Some people don't like its inconsistent syntax and weird edge cases and... yeah, fair enough. Some people want a cathedral and find PHP a bit too bazaar.

My opinion - use PHP if you want to, don't use it if you don't, but being emotionally invested in negativity towards a programming language is silly either way.

</comment><comment><USER3> > _So can someone illuminate me why the HN community is so anti-PHP_

Not everybody is. Mostly newbs who think it makes them look smarter if they bash what's unfashionable (though for people who code in JS, to badmouth PHP as a bad language is rich), and holier-than-thou types, who value purity over pragmatism, and have never created anything substantial anyway.

People who code in C or C++ for example, have produced working products, and know all the bad areas and deficiencies of their languages but appreciate them for the results and pragmatism they allow, would think twice before bashing PHP for not being some perfect language.

</comment><comment><USER4> PHP is a pain to work with. It doesn't have the tools that other languages have. The libraries available for PHP tend to be buggy or poorly designed.

The market for PHP developers isn't going to go away, but if you work somewhere that is using PHP there is a good chance you won't be working somewhere with a strong engineering focus. So you probably won't have great people to learn from and you will limit your growth as a software engineer.

<comment><USER5> PHP is not perfect, but there has been definite improvement. Tooling is now pretty good with PHPStorm (from JetBrains), Composer is a fine dependency/packet manager and a framework like Symfony sets good guidelines and stability for development.

In addition eCommerce and Content Management System tools and ecosystems are still by far the most popular out there. After years of Node.js hype there is still nothing that rivals WordPress in terms of flexibility and ease of use. Same goes for Magento on the eCommerce end. Not that WP or Magento are good examples of high quality codebases.

All that said, there are no longer arguments why you would use PHP specifically. In that sense it has lost it's edge and you can use any number of languages for developing CRUD apps for the web. But if you need to get shit done, there is nothing wrong with PHP and your customers couldn't care less.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> I stopped doing PHP years ago (php 5, if I remember correctly). At the time, here was my beefs with it. I don't know if they're still true since I moved on to greener pastures (and have had no trouble finding work, by the way, so your nephew will be fine too).

\- I did not like relying on web server software to handle routing in my applications

\- There was no nice way to handle dependencies (I've heard there is now composer but then there was not).

\- Redundant and useless modules. For example, several that handle XML, 2 that do Mysql, etc.

\- Inconsistency. Can't recall the specific instance of this but two similar functions would work identically but accept arguments in different order.

\- Messing with php.ini was disgusting.

I still know a webdev who works in PHP (Laravel specifically) and he tells me the language has improved a lot. I'm happy for him, but I have no desire to return.

Since then, I've worked with Node.js, python, ruby and elixir and am really glad I've had that experience.</comment>


Supplier Responsibility at Apple - <AUTHOR> http://www.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/

<comment><USER2> "To monitor compliance, we conduct onsite audits, approve corrective action plans, and verify implementation. "

This means nothing in itself.

My wife has worked fairly extensively in the fashion industry and according to her colleagues there's still major UK retailers where things are still being made by children (whose families depend on the income, BTW).

Effective inspections must be:

* unannounced

* unguided (ie, allow the inspector to visit any part of the factory they wish). Which Apple's don't seem to be.

Otherwise:

* Workers get a crib sheet with answers they give to auditors.

* Anyone who shouldn't be there is let off for the day, making up the time before of after the auditor visits.

* Production outputting chemicals into the environment is ramped up prior to the event, then shut down during it (the dye plants temporarily stopped dumping into rovers during the Beijing Olympics).

</comment><comment><USER3> Ever notice that these factory images always have as their focal point a pretty or even beautiful Asian woman? They're definitely selling something . . .

<comment><USER4> Ever notice how hot most women are when walking around in, say, downtown Shanghai? ;-) Now, back to the point: of course they are selling something. An investment in things with no net short-term R.O.I. like environmental & social responsibility programmes deserves to be seen.

<comment><USER3> Regrettably I have not yet been. I guess I should go.</comment></comment></comment>


Fox News left their root image directory for the browse option - <AUTHOR> http://www.irintech.com/x1/blogarchive.php?id=1318 Fox News one of the premier news website has a security flaw, in which they have left their images directory browse able <comment><USER2> <http://www.foxnews.com/images/root_images/>

this was the best image... [http://www.foxnews.com/images/root_images/071907_velocirapto...](http://www.foxnews.com/images/root_images/071907_velociraptor1.jpg)</comment>


Isambard Kingdom Brunel – "one of the most ingenious and prolific engineers" - <AUTHOR> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isambard_Kingdom_Brunel <comment><USER2> the entire time that brunel was active- early to mid 1800s- was one of the most scientific/engineering productive eras ever. I've spent a lot of time studying England and Germany during this era and it's really amazing to see how the work banged out during the industrial revolution really established the framework of our modern lives.

Some things have changed for the better- for example, London and Berlin during this time were so smoke-clogged that people could barely live there. The industry got moved to the countryside eventually.</comment>


Lakka –  DIY retro emulation console - <AUTHOR> http://www.lakka.tv/ <comment><USER2> I can find no easily accessible references as to exactly what "retro" games/applications are actually supported. Pretty essential information I would have thought...

<comment><USER3> I got RetroPi running over the Thanksgiving holiday. It's hard to figure out what version of the MAME roms you need to use.

<comment><USER4> I'm guessing this is what you're looking for?

[https://github.com/RetroPie/RetroPie-Setup/wiki/Managing- ROM...](https://github.com/RetroPie/RetroPie-Setup/wiki/Managing-ROMs)

<comment><USER3> That helps out. Of course I have the 0.149 roms found on the internet archive. That set doesn't seem to be on the list.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Anyone knows if this works with a BeagleBone Black? They mention the Raspberry Pi as supported hardware ([http://www.lakka.tv/doc/Hardware- support/](http://www.lakka.tv/doc/Hardware-support/)), so hopefully it should run on the BeagleBone as well.

<comment><USER6> We don't support BeagleBone yet. However, if someone want to send a free hardware sample we will do our best to support it.

<comment><USER5> Well I have an extra board lying around but now I was planning to use it as a console emulator.... :/

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> So ... it's been a long time since I looked into MAME, XMAME, etc. etc.

What's the state of the art today? Is it RetroPie? Where can I find the ROMs?

<comment><USER8> You can find Roms by doing a simple google search for the game and adding "rom". Sometimes I might even add "download". You can also find rom packs on torrent sites. It's not hard.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> For the Mac instructions (page 4, at the bottom), you may want to switch

        diskutil unmount /dev/diskNs1

to

        diskutil unmountDisk /dev/diskN

The former does not work if the disk has multiple partitions.

Also you may want to put that command before the dd, because most people will have to run it.

<comment><USER6> Thanks, let me change this...

<comment> m-app Also, using 'rdisk' instead of the 'disk' dev-file is much faster: [http://superuser.com/questions/631592/why-is-dev-rdisk- about...](http://superuser.com/questions/631592/why-is-dev-rdisk- about-20-times-faster-than-dev-disk-in-mac-os-x)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Lakka is based on OpenELEC. Does this mean that it should make as good a media player as OpenELEC?

<comment><USER6> No. We don't ship KODI. We do ship ffmpeg as a libretro core, but it's not accelerated.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Does PC support mean Minnowboard-Max support? x86 SBC.

</comment><comment><USER11> Can this be combined with DOS support?

<comment><USER6> There is a libretro version of the DOSBox emulator. If that's what you want. It's not yet in the default installation but can be added using the core updater.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> _" Conclusion: Don't buy chinese crap, prefer a RPi2."_

From: [http://www.lakka.tv/doc/Hardware- support/](http://www.lakka.tv/doc/Hardware-support/)

This shit rips my knitting

<comment><USER13> And,

 _" Cons: [...] The RPi Foundation is not friendly, they don't reply to our mails about including Lakka on NOOBS."_

[http://www.lakka.tv/doc/Hardware-support/](http://www.lakka.tv/doc/Hardware- support/)

seems to be an odd mis-match of tones on the site...

<comment><USER14> To be honest although I like the raspberry pi hardware (and would recommend it in comparison with some of the other boards) I'm not particularly a fan of the foundation also.

The reason being that they can't handle any form of constructive criticism very well. I dare you to make a comment about the USB design, open hardware vs blob thing, I will bring the popcorn. They have an extremely negative stance against competitors products which I don't understand. If it is real about the children and education I don't see how "competing" products that drives the prices down, are something bad in that regards. For me it is a healthy thing.

Personally since the beginning I've had a very negative vibe due to how to they communicate on their blogs, in comments, deal with people who have different opinions,... . I'm not one bit surprised that in the communications with the lakka dev(s) they made the impression of being unfriendly. You really don't have to be in direct communications with them to get that impression.

But they have the advantage of having a good product which in the end is maybe the most important thing. They make darn good inexpensive hardware.

<comment><USER15> Do you have any links to comments made by people in the foundation about the USB design or the hardware blob thing?

<comment><USER14> I don't particularly keep a database of links to comments being made some time ago, sorry... .

<comment><USER15> Do you have any relevant search terms?

I mean, you're bad-mouthing a few people here, and it'd be nice if I could check.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Folks who work remotely for US companies, how do you handle money? - <AUTHOR> I know there are many people here who work for US companies from outside the US. Do you guys primarily work as contractors? If you are regular employees, do you get a US W-2? If you are not a US Citizen, I guess you will be treated as a non-resident for tax purposes? Is that favorable to you? Let us discuss these financial aspects here. <comment><USER2> When I did this as a contractor I gave my employer a W8-BEN form, which affirms you are a non-resident from a country with a tax treaty with the US. Then I was paid my full rate by my US employer (no tax withheld), and I paid tax at the end of the year in my own country at the self-employed rate.

I believe this will differ greatly based on how your company prefers likes to handle things, how your government likes to tax things, and whether you set yourself up as self-employed, contractor, employee, corp, sole tradership etc. I'd highly recommend seeing a local accountant or similar.

</comment><comment><USER3> We are a registered company in India.

We work as a Freelancer or Contractor with USA based companies.

We do not need to file any US Taxes or do not require a W8-BEN form.

When we work with India based clients we need to charge them GST or Local Taxes.

We receive Client payments in terms of Remittance & need to declare payment is against the Software Services extended to an organisation or individual outside India.

Our taxation is handled by Charter Accountants.

</comment><comment><USER4> I am a Canadian Citizen who owns my own business (registered as a Sole Proprietorship) and I do contract work and consulting for US clients sometimes.

I am living outside the US as well so thankfully I don't have US tax, the biggest difference for me is that I don't need to charge US clients sales tax where I live, but for local clients I do need to collect an additional tax and pass that on to the government.

<comment><USER5> I am in a similar situation (Canadian PR working for a US company as a 'consultant'). How do you calculate CPP (Canadian Pension Plan) tax?

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> I am not a lawyer. My understanding is: non-citizens non-residents are contractors and the work is carried out outside of the US so it is "non US sourced". If any of the three above conditions are not true, then the US based company must withhold taxes. The contractor must submit the correct WBEN forms to the US co, to declare this.

</comment><comment><USER7> My impression is that if you are an employee, you are typically hired by local company in country you live. This local company will be structured as a subsidiary of the US corporation. So US taxes are irrelevant.

<comment><USER8> That's completely not the case much of the time. Frequently, non-US-citizen remote people are hired as contractors rather than permenant employees. Otherwise, it gets ridiculous -- I hire a Serbian guy and a Ukrainian guy and a French guy -- that would, under your scenario, require 3 different subsidiaries and all of the bureaucratic nonsense that would entail -- opening a French subsidiary, for exsample would be next to hell in terms of trouble -- especially for an American company with no physical presence in the country. No way. Most companies would never do it that way.

The best and easiest way is to simply hire the "employee" as a consultant/contractor -- then that person can handle taxes/etc however they need to. For example, what if you're a Serbian citizen working remotely from Thailand for a US company while getting paid into an EU bank account?

It gets ridiculous in a hurry -- unless you're paying remote overseas employees as independent contractors.

<comment><USER7> That's why I said "if you are hired as an employee". Choices are contractor or local employee, you're never a US employee.</comment></comment></comment>


E-mail reminders: delivery delay as far as 2020 - <AUTHOR> https://traumkapsel.com/

<comment><AUTHOR> Available in German only.</comment>


Rewind: A Field Guide to Profiting from Big Mistakes - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/todd-insights/rewind-a-field-guide-to-profiting-from-big-mistakes-episode-1-7c47db7f2e <comment><AUTHOR> Who should be the next interview?</comment>


Privacy risks with Facebook's PII-based targeting: auditing a data broker - <AUTHOR> https://blog.acolyer.org/2018/07/03/privacy-risks-with-facebooks-pii-based-targeting-auditing-a-data-brokers-advertising-interface/ <comment><USER2> tl;dr Facebook tracking pixels placed on websites around the web are automatically loaded by popular browsers' default settings. These benefit Facebook and their customers (advertisers, data brokers) but have created privacy risks for users.

Solution for users: Block loading of tracking pixels, e.g., via browser extensions, DNS, filtering proxy, etc.

<comment><USER3> They can also match on personal information - tracking pixel or not, letting you know if user X, of which you know any piece of information, is in the target audience or not. Specify the target audience sufficiently, and you can find out what facebook knows about user X.

Big deal, really.</comment></comment>


Payments by Apple is Coming - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/p/751a4157031f <comment><USER2> Card replacement - my credit and debit cards as well as RFID cards (college ID, T pass) - is THE killer feature. This is the only feature that would cause me to switch platforms.</comment>


Hacked by Ham Radio Deluxe support - <AUTHOR> http://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php/topic,112627.0.html <comment><AUTHOR> Backstory: guy opens a support ticket with Ham Radio Deluxe, a popular Windows app for ham radio operators. HRD support noticed he left a negative review of HRD online. They blacklist his license and tell him to update. His copy of HRD is bricked. Support responds with:

 _" I'm sorry, but your support has expired and we are unable to provide any further support.

We would also like to request that you NOT RENEW your support nor use our software due to the review you placed on eHam back in September. Remember that? [http://www.eham.net/reviews/review/143372](http://www.eham.net/reviews/review/143372)

Good luck, and 73 HRD Tech Support"_</comment>


Algodoo – 2D physics playground - <AUTHOR> http://www.algodoo.com/

<comment><AUTHOR> Someone asked ([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6230807](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6230807)) in the discussion of _507 Mechanical Movements_ for a tool that could simulate those movements. This is such a tool. You could pick an interesting mechanical movement ([http://507movements.com/index23.html](http://507movements.com/index23.html)) and try building it.</comment>


Jason "I have a magic crystal ball" Fried: Apple will dominate mobile for 20 years - <AUTHOR> http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/900-iphone-sdk-apples-touch-platform-and-the-next-two-decades

<comment><USER2> Being the open source guy that I am: I hope not.

</comment><comment><USER3> I don't quite think Apple has the business hooks as it is stated in the article. Apple has over the last two years turned itself into a company that makes cool consumer products - not business applications.

</comment><comment><USER4> you can say that only if you don't understand the mobile market</comment>


My fears as a designer and 3 methods to conquer them - <AUTHOR> http://hackingui.com/productivity-others/fears/ <comment><USER2> Thanks for posting this Ohad :) Glad you liked it!</comment>


ARRIS Cable Modem Has a Backdoor in the Backdoor - <AUTHOR> https://w00tsec.blogspot.com/2015/11/arris-cable-modem-has-backdoor-in.html <comment><USER2> > After a thoughtful analysis, the marketing committee advised w00tsec members > to write a Keygen. In order to write a Keygen, we need a leet ascii art and > a cool chiptune.

Something old, something new. Of course exploits and chiptunes have always gone together like bread and butter. But now exploits need marketing committees too.

<comment><USER3> Not a bad chiptune either: [http://www.a1k0n.net/code/jsxm/#Ghidorah_- _Toilet_story_5.xm](http://www.a1k0n.net/code/jsxm/#Ghidorah_- _Toilet_story_5.xm)

<comment><USER4> Watched on YouTube, since I didn't have a FastTracker player handy: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syc2NnPNnZs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syc2NnPNnZs)

Listening to that put me in a good mood :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Hah I love this in the arris_backdoor.py output:

      > Bypassing EULA...
      > EULA served over HTTP
      > MiTMing EULA to include permissive clauses...
      > EULA bypassed using technique [1]

<comment><USER6> Good catch... That is hysterical

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> You know what really grinds my gears? The fact that on my newish surfboard modem, when I looked around for a new firmware version, low and behold, apparently Arris/Motorola refuse to release the firmware to the consumer/owner of the device, and say that it is the ISP's responsibility to update firmware!

No it's not, it's my hardware! I understand the docsis 3.0 spec says otherwise, but I disagree with it. So I call my ISP (Suddenlink), and lo and behold, they say it's not supported and therefore won't update my firmware.

Now I find out it's probably backdoored!

You know, when the NSA and everyone else start talking about cybersecurity, I don't fucking beleive a word of it anymore, because if they were really concerned about security, they would be pushing for open source firmware modems, and would be letting these companies know about the vulns and pushing them to close them. Instead they sit on the 0-days like a treasure trove of new weapons.

<comment><USER8> It's not any different than wireless companies and cell phones - they will use the reason of not controlling the firmware causing connection issues with their proprietary networks

<comment><USER7> Which is such a bullshit reason... but you are correct, unfortunately.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> It's a tiny bit funny that a cable modem called "arris" has a backdoor: [http://www.cockneyrhymingslang.co.uk/slang/aris](http://www.cockneyrhymingslang.co.uk/slang/aris)

<comment><USER10> Haha, we discovered that one playing scrabble last night. What are the chances?

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Does this affect their Surboard line? Specifically the SB6141? Its probably the most popular modem for people who don't wanna rent one from their provider.

<comment><USER12> I know the Surfboards originated from Motorola, so there's a faint hope that they're okay...

<comment><USER11> I bought mine from Target 3 months ago and it still looks like it is running Motorola firmware even though it has an Arris logo stamped on the front of the device.

[https://s3.amazonaws.com/tomschlick- screenshots/BGYfaCbLVEsB...](https://s3.amazonaws.com/tomschlick- screenshots/BGYfaCbLVEsBh.png)

<comment><USER13> Yep, they still run Motorola firmware.

I discovered a few months ago Comcast is able to push firmware updates to customer owned modems without permission. So even if the backdoor is not present now there is no way to trust it will never be pushed to the devices.

<comment><USER11> Thats worrisome. I knew they could ping for info/reboot it but had no idea they had write access to the device.

<comment><USER14> Cable modems are based on a pre-Carterphone philosophy that the modem is an extension of the ISP and is completely owned (and 0wned), configured, updated, etc. by the ISP. They let you buy your own, but that doesn't change the protocol.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I returned my Arris TG862 because you can't really shut off the WiFi. Even though Comcast assured me that the public hotspot was disabled, I could see (with my SDR receiver) that it was still transmitting on channel 1.

[http://www.w6rz.net/comcastwifi.png](http://www.w6rz.net/comcastwifi.png)

<comment><USER16> "transmitting" as in actually sending data, or just the radio left on, set by default to the lowest channel, and transmitting an otherwise useless carrier wave?

<comment><USER15> Transmitting with a blank SSID apparently. It just adds to the congestion on 2.4 GHz for no reason. For myself, it interferes with my wireless development activities. See this thread on the Comcast forum where folks are seeing all sorts of bad behavior.

[http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/Home-Networking-Router- WiFi/Xfi...](http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/Home-Networking-Router-WiFi/Xfinity- HotSpot-FAQs/td-p/2307497)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> What kind of access should a cable company have to your cable modem? Should it at all?

I mean, your ISP does not need any access to your edge router if the ISP gives you a standard Ethernet socket. How standardized are cable interfaces? What kind of custom setup may they legitimately need to work in a particular cable network?

<comment><USER18> The cable modem is telco infrastructure that happens to be in your house. The boundary between telco and customer networks (called the "demarc") is between the cable modem and your router. It's entirely theirs to administrator, same as the vault down the street.

A comment I posted about this a few years ago: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6998650](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6998650)

<comment><USER19> It's not quite that simple. In some cases it's telco infrastructure that's owned by the customer. In that case I'd say the demarc is like to be somewhere _inside_ the modem, which is sort of nonsensical.

<comment><USER18> When you own the modem, you're free to disconnect it from the cable company's network and do something else with it, but administrative access is still a condition of service from your ISP as long as you continue to contract with them for internet access on it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Is this a cable modem or a router? My definition of cable modem doesn't include an IP address.

These POCs never include enough information for me. For instance, is this exploitable from the external interface, or only internal?

<comment><USER21> _Is this a cable modem or a router?_

Reminds me of the inane SNL sketch, whose catchphrase was: "New Shimmer is both a floor wax and a dessert topping!"

My Arris (nee Motorola) SB6141 is a bridge and a router. It's actually very nicely done.

When the modem can't access the cable infrastructure, it turns itself into a DHCP server and hands out IP addresses in the range 192.168.100.xx. This is useful for people at home whose configurations are such that their home networks won't work properly without some sort of DHCP server provided by the ISP.

Once the modem can talk to the ISP, it turns itself into a bridge. The IP addresses the modem previously issued were valid for 30 seconds, so there will shortly be a new DHCPREQUEST which the modem bridges out to the ISP. From then on, the modem is transparent to IP traffic (but see below).

 _My definition of cable modem doesn 't include an IP address._

This is highly useful. Once the modem has switched to being a bridge, it still responds to 192.168.100.1. There's all sorts of useful information there. E.g. DOCSIS status, Channel IDs, received Signal to Noise ratio, transmit Power Level, etc. There's even a nice (but short) log of the modem's interaction with the cable infrastructure.

The modem is outside my firewall, so I don't really worry about it much. It's like anything else on the Internet as far as my home network is concerned.

However, I do currently allow access to 192.168.100.1 (normally I block outbound RFC 1918 addresses). That is a potential problem should some rogue program on my network attempt to exploit a modem vulnerability. Maybe I'll just block all those addresses and only enable them in the firewall when I want to check the modem status.

<comment><USER22> >normally I block outbound RFC 1918 addresses

I'm assuming LAN traffic still works in this case.

>That is a potential problem should some rogue program on my network attempt to exploit a modem vulnerability. Maybe I'll just block all those addresses and only enable them in the firewall when I want to check the modem status.

I've been looking at scraping my modem interface for info and then blocking all but one PC from accessing the admin interface

<comment><USER23> > I'm assuming LAN traffic still works in this case.

Blocking outbound RFC 1918 addresses is a fairly common firewall configuration to prevent any LAN traffic from leaking out into the internet due to weird or misconfigured NAT rules, etc. It doesn't prevent that traffic from traversing the LAN, just if it might try and escape the WAN.

<comment><USER22> Ah right, that's done by my ISP at the first hop.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> A few years ago people on my ISP were ranting and raving about getting an Arris cable modem because it was one of the newer DOCSIS 3 modems.

I wonder if the TM822 model is classified as "ARRIS SOHO-grade" because that's what the article mentions as having the backdoor.

<comment><USER25> I have WOW internet, and their provided modem was an Arris modem. It was a piece of garbage, so I bought a Netgear modem, sent the Arris back, and got $10 savings on my internet bill (for renting the crap modem). I'm even happier about that choice now. And yes, my new modem is DOCSIS 3.

<comment><USER24> Was it the same model?

The TM822 has been pretty good to me. It maxes out at my ISP's reported speeds (30/5), no packet loss, low single digit latency and since it's hooked up to a UPS it hasn't been power cycled or rebooted in almost a year.

<comment><USER25> Darn, it's been more than half a year, so I don't remember the model name. It just recall it was Arris and the webpage manager thing had similar graphics and look to the one in the article (although they probably all have that).

Nonetheless, regardless if it is the same model as they tested, this demonstrates that I really shouldn't trust anything from Arris now.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> At least it appears to be based on the serial number. Only using the last 5 is still pretty bad though but plenty of cable modems treat the serial number as privileged information. It's already a password essentially for SNMP access provided that your ISP hasn't blocked access to it.

<comment><USER27> It is exactly as privileged as going to the website [http://192.168.100.1](http://192.168.100.1) and clicking HW/FW versions, which proudly displays the complete serial for you. There is no authentication of any sort and it is not encrypted at any point.

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> Wasn't there a project a while back where someone was building a open source modem/router from the ground up? A kick starter or something?

<comment><USER29> Since you need a DOCSIS modem box and a router, I would suggest people put a router box you fully control behind your ISP's DOCSIS brick, and just assume the latter is compromised continuously.

I use pfsense on a usb stick in a little box with 2 ethernets.

<comment><USER30> What is a DOCSIS modem and why can't an open source one be built? Also, how does putting your router behind your DOCSIS modem help?

Genuinely curious, don't know much about networking.

<comment><USER31> The cable companies need to be able to push firmware and settings to maintain the network and avoid abuse. So they have certification standards and you need to pay to play.

For example, with DOCSIS 2 modems, you could spoof the MAC address and make some config changes and get anonymous internet access at the highest service tier.

<comment><USER32> Why does cable company need special powers that my DSL provider does not need?

<comment><USER33> Because cable is a shared RF resource, and your DSL line is (nominally) a point to point link.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> Seems like this only affects the LAN interface. Since most people aren't trying to break into your computer just to break into your cable modem, this shouldn't be considered a high priority exploit.

Malware changing the DNS server on your router's DHCP server could be bad for you. But even though malware on your desktop attacking your network is bad, what's worse is _there 's malware on your desktop_.

<comment><USER35> Just because you can't of a useful use by the bad guys, doesn't mean they can't :-) It is also quite possible the bad guys have figured out how to exploit this using regular Javascript - ie you don't need malware in your LAN, just Javascript in a browser.

<comment><USER34> Assuming you could exploit the browser's JS to submit such a request (I thought I remembered seeing a security feature of modern browsers to prevent this?) and assuming the web interface requires no authentication, you would only be able to enable WAN HTTP access. The telnet and ssh still appear to be LAN-only. And you still need the serial number to generate a password (does the web interface even show that?). I don't see a viable drive-by attack vector other than malware.

 _edit_ It does look like telnet can be accessed via WAN, which is pretty bad.

<comment><USER35> There is a same origin policy and CORS. Sometimes cross site stuff is supposed to work (JSONP). In some cases the request is made to the non-origin site, and the response is then blocked based on returned headers. That however doesn't stop the request's side effects. A few years ago there were a round of hacks against many home routers doing this, exploiting vulnerabilities in their web admin interfaces. I stand by my first sentence in my first comment.

<comment><USER36> Yes, this class of web vulnerability is called Cross-Site Request Forgery or CSRF ([https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Cross- Site_Request_Forgery_%...](https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Cross- Site_Request_Forgery_%28CSRF%29)). The Same Origin Policy (SOP) prevents one domain from receiving the HTTP responses for requests it sends to other domains. As you suggest however, the request itself can sometimes be enough to cause adverse side effects on the target server (that may be beneficial to an attacker).

It continues to be a common security issue among web applications and is why all sensitive actions should be protected with unique anti-CSRF tokens (most good development frameworks provide support for this).

If you need to relax SOP restrictions between sites you control, the modern and recommended way is via Cross Origin Resource Sharing or CORS ([https://developer.mozilla.org/en- US/docs/Web/HTTP/Access_con...](https://developer.mozilla.org/en- US/docs/Web/HTTP/Access_control_CORS)).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> from a security standpoint, any recommendations for cable modem hardware and/or firmware?

<comment><USER38> Don't trust them. Add a system you control between the device and your internal network. If you're just worried about your traffic privacy and not just internal resources, establish an end-to-end encrypted tunnel from that jump system to a network or VPN provider you trust.

Edit: excuse me, I misread your question. I thought you were asking for best practice. I don't have have a specific hardware recommendation (because I don't trust them :) )

</comment></comment><comment><USER39> Can't most ISPs replace the firmware on demand on most Docsis 3.0 modems ?

This means they could manipulate it at any time.

<comment><USER40> Encrypt everything between your computer and the server you're connecting to, ideally use a VPN. The ISP already owns the lines anyway, 0wning the modem doesn't really make much more of a difference. The reasoning behind being able to push new firmware to a modem from the ISP is automatic configuration and to stop abuse on the network although I'd rather configure things myself.

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> I have an Arris modem. Is there a way to mitigate this risk short of buying a new modem?

<comment><USER42> no, as the nature of it forces it to be on your network edge.

<comment><USER43> Wouldn't putting the Arris modem in bridging mode mitigate it? It should no longer be accessible via an outside IP at that point.

<comment><USER42> it almost certainly still has an externally accessible ip at that point for management purposes. (bridge 2 interfaces, add a virtual interface to the bridge)

<comment><USER43> I don't believe management from the CableCo is done over IP and the other management end requires being plugged into the LAN port.

<comment><USER42> as the article states, scans found wan acessible modem uis

<comment><USER43> Yes, but by default a modem from your ISP is acting as a NAT device routing to a private IP space. By default, it has an externally available IP address and will answer on that or those addresses.

Many can, however, be configured as a bridge, which turns the device into just a converter between physical mediums. You now need another device to route and act as your gateway. In that setup you shouldn't be able to find it with an IP connection scan, because it doesn't have one.

<comment><USER44> > Yes, but by default a modem from your ISP is acting as a NAT device routing > to a private IP space.

Not in my experience. The default modem provided by both Comcast and Knology (who is -I guess- now WOW!) is (or was, in the case of Knology) a bridge device that requires you to provide your own router. You have to ask for a modem that's also a router to get something that's not a bridge.

That doesn't mean that the modem doesn't have an IP address, mind. AIUI, on Comcast's network the _modem_ gets an IPv6 address so that they can do network management stuff to it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER45> I'n surprised this hasn't yet been branded the "ARRIS-Hole".

</comment><comment><USER46> Hi. I own Arris TG862G, TWC pushed their firmware on it, it seems much older than discussed here.

Firmware Name: TS070563C_032913_MODEL_862_GW_TW_SIP_PC20 Firmware Build Time: Fri Mar 29 2013

I got a permanent password to advanced page/technician. But I don't have URL [http://192.168.100.1/cgi-bin/tech_support_cgi](http://192.168.100.1/cgi- bin/tech_support_cgi), it's 404 and as a result I don't know how to enable SSH. Can anyone help with this old firmware?

<comment><USER47> I also have a TG862G, but from Xfinity (a Comcast company). The default admin page is @ [http://192.168.100.1/](http://192.168.100.1/) & [http://10.0.0.1/](http://10.0.0.1/), but neither of them have a /cgi- bin/tech_support_cgi.

However, I discovered this page: [http://10.0.0.1/wireless_network_configuration-1.php](http://10.0.0.1/wireless_network_configuration-1.php) (probably also exists on 192.168.100.1) which looks like a secret wifi config page that has more advanced options than the normal wifi config page @ [http://10.0.0.1/wireless_network_configuration.php](http://10.0.0.1/wireless_network_configuration.php) (I found the wireless_network_configuration-1.php file by viewing the source of a few pages on 10.0.0.1, it was hiding in some HTML comments).

On the normal wifi config page, you can only edit the settings for your "Private" wifi hotspot, but on this -1.php page you can also edit the two "Public" hotspots: "xfinitywifi", and one that (on mine) looked like: "XHS-A6B18523". Since you can edit these two "Public" ones, you can also viewed the stored WPA key for XHS ("xfinitywifi" has no key).

Once I grabbed the XHS-* key and connected to it, I received a 172.16.12.100 IP (a subnet I've never seen on the other access point). On this one the gateway IP was 172.16.12.1. Nmap shows these ports on that gw IP: 443 = NET-DK 1.0 (ssl) 5001 = Arris/1.0 UPnP/1.0 miniupnpd/1.0 (Status: 501 Not Implemented) 8080 = (SIP end point; Status: 501 Not Implemented) and same as the above for ports 8081 & 8888 & 5540.

All of those SIP ports were just HTTP servers that looked exactly like the customer version you see on [http://10.0.0.1/](http://10.0.0.1/) , except that my admin pass didn't work on it (tried the defaults too, plus some guesses).

When I went to [https://172.16.12.1/](https://172.16.12.1/) it redirected me to /cgi-bin/status_cgi, which contains a link to /cgi-bin/tech_support (which redirects to /cgi-bin/adv_pwd_cgi).

So maybe you could try all of that to see if your TG862G works the same :-)

P.S. I tried the password of the day thing but the seed must be different on this one, and the SNMP thing doesn't exist on any of these webservers.

<comment><USER46> Thank you for reply, but I don't have xfinity firmware anymore, cause TWC wiped it out and wrote their own. It seems I don't have wireless_network_configuration.php pages anywhere and it doesn't broadcast wi- fi at all (I actually can't enable it, there is bug or something, it just shuts down), so I can't try that subnet either. This is frustrating, cause I do have a password to /cgi-bin/adv_pwd_cgi but I can't find the SSH/Telnet options to enable.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER48> When I try [http://192.168.100.1/cgi- bin/tech_support_cgi](http://192.168.100.1/cgi-bin/tech_support_cgi) on an Arris modem it says:

       NET-DK/1.0 Error: 401 Unauthorized

<comment><USER49> Yes, that's demonstrated in the video. You have to login on another page before that page will work.

<comment><USER50> That login page doesn't exist on mine: [http://192.168.100.1/cgi- bin/adv_pwd_cgi](http://192.168.100.1/cgi-bin/adv_pwd_cgi)

      NET-DK/1.0 Error: 404 Not Found

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER51> Can they access the mainframe?

</comment><comment><USER52> That's really great.

</comment><comment><USER53> yo dawg...</comment>


HipChat's Enterprise Communication Platform Adds Video Chat And Guest Access - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2010/09/02/hipchats-enterprise-communication-platform-adds-video-chat-and-guest-access/

<comment><AUTHOR> We use HipChat at Mixpanel and it's really convenient - we previously used standard IM stuff but as the company grows it's a pain to IM a bunch of separate people.

They have a free plan - you should definitely try it out.

</comment><comment><USER2> Screen sharing would be an awesome addition to the video chat.</comment>


Ask HN: Easy way to find all internet comments discussing an article? - <AUTHOR> Is there a way to easily see all 'internet discussion' of an article? i.e all the reddit comments, hn comments, blogs, niche forums, etc talking about an article?
When I read an interesting article/blog post I want to see more discussion about it and I go through tons of google queries to see where the article has been discussed.
In particular I'd like to be able to discover new forums/blogs this way. <comment><USER2> Have you tried Google's operators? For example, searching for:

      link:www.cnn.com -cnn.com

will show you what links to www.cnn.com but isn't itself cnn.com. To search for links to this post, it could look something like:

      link:https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23179276 -ycombinator.com

<comment><AUTHOR> Wow, I've never spent the time to look through all the operators. 'link:' gets me most of the way there. Thank you!

<comment><USER2> There are others to help you hone it in. Put mandatory things in quotes or with preceding +. There are also operators for inurl: and also filetype: (or ext:) that I have used often enough when looking for things that come in specific formats.

EDIT: I just read one of your other responses. Take a look at adding site: to the google searches. You could only do one site (reddit, hn, slashdot, etc) at a time, but it's still at least an easy way to get specific results.

<comment><AUTHOR> It'd be cool if you could do multiple sites & then save that to an alias or something. Thanks so much for your help!

<comment><USER3> Something that may interest you: Google Custom Search JSON API 100 free queries/day

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> There's an extension on Chrome that tells you if a certain webpage was posted on HN or not. That said, popular posts usually receive hundreds of comments on HN, let alone on other platforms. I have yet to read all the comments in my favorite HN posts; doing the same for Reddit and other forums would definitely be so much time consuming. I guess a good service would be something like TL;DR for comments.

<comment><AUTHOR> One of my main motivations is getting a sense of what different communities are saying about a piece of content. The experience can be pretty different based on styles (i.e. amount of memes, how serious tone is, how combative, etc).

When posts are really popular I'm usually not trying to read all the comments, but would want to read top comments across different platforms.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Not all comments are on Reddit, blogs, niche forums, etc, there may also be comments on IRC, Usenet, Unusenet, Gopher, mailing lists, IPFS, Tor hidden services, FidoNet, FTP, and web pages which are not indexed by Google (or other web searches) (for various reasons). And some are HTTP but not HTML, using other file formats such as plain text, PDF, etc.</comment>


The Machine OS: HP Will Release a "Revolutionary" New Operating System in 2015 - <AUTHOR> http://www.technologyreview.com/news/533066/hp-will-release-a-revolutionary-new-operating-system-in-2015/

<comment><USER3> I have an HP Envy laptop; it was, I believe, the highest end model at the time when I bought it (i7, 1080p, dedicated GPU, etc.). It is the worst single device I have ever owned. And, in this context, it's worth mentioning the HP shovelware it came equipped with...the "recovery" partition didn't work after a Windows crash, so I had to purchase restore media from HP and wait for it to arrive before Windows worked again on my system (I work under Linux, so that wasn't a huge deal, but still, no games for over a week).

The last HP printer I owned was also garbage. Literally. I threw it away after about a year of frustrated use. The software for that was kinda crap, too.

So, why would I consider trusting HP with building an _operating system_?

I think memristor tech is exciting. And, I hope that HP can become a research juggernaut again. But, I don't have very high hopes of them making anything I would want to use, given my recent past experience with HP products. It can be easy for a company to get segmented into "consumer" products that are crap and "pro" products that are supposed to be high quality...but, I lose faith when QC in the consumer end is so poor.

<comment><USER4> I have worked with a company that bought HP's to their entire staff and very few of those have had issues. Much fewer HP's have been faulting than the previous Dell ones, i should not that Dell replaced the faulty machines while HP requested them to be sent to service without a meanwhile replacement.

The worst experience i've had is by far Asus Netbooks that - at the time - <USER2> used on the field.

And I'm sure other will have other experiences. Seems to me that quality on laptops is quite a gamble.

I liked what HP did with WebOS, so i hope they will do a similar work with "The Machine": [http://www.openwebosproject.org/](http://www.openwebosproject.org/)

<comment><USER5> For some reason the quality gap between HPs consumer and professional laptops is massive. HPs EliteBooks are pretty solid, but their consumer laptops like the Envy or Pavilion are really quite bad.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> HP will release a "revolutionary" new press release every couple of months.

</comment><comment><USER7> Best of luck to them. I wish they would have thrown more weight behind webOS when they acquired Palm, but oh well!

</comment><comment><USER8> [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8677980](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8677980)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7878949](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7878949)

</comment><comment><USER9> lemme guess.. it will run 'javascript'..

<comment><USER7> In the cloud.</comment></comment>


How to Achieve Your Goals by Changing the Way You Surf the Web - <AUTHOR> http://www.doshdosh.com/how-to-achieve-your-goals/ <comment><USER2> Excellent article. For some time I have felt the need for this, but not acted on it.

Can anyone compare the merits of the proposed tools? Also, how does Zotero compare?

</comment><comment><USER3> Good to see DoshDosh writing articles again. His articles are very informative, insightful and large by normal web standards. I like huge blog posts.</comment>


Steve Wozniak: The Future of AI Is 'Scary and Very Bad for People' - <AUTHOR> http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/244236

<comment><USER2> The future of AI is scary for capitalists, since AI and robotic production is not worth anything for a capitalist. But it is very good for people, since the AI and robotics products have a usage value for people.</comment>


Valproate reopens critical-period learning of absolute pitch - <AUTHOR> http://www.frontiersin.org/Systems_Neuroscience/10.3389/fnsys.2013.00102/full

<comment><USER2> This is really fascinating, I'd love to see this on a larger scale.

I was exposed to music very early but I never began to learn an instrument until I was 12. It was, however, the bassoon, which being rather unstable in intonation leads a malleable young ear to have a bit more pitch sensitivity than one raised on more settled instruments. In high school years I'd practice "absolute pitch" in a darkened practice room with a piano. I'm not sure which battery of tests the researchers are talking about but I'd be interested in taking them. The 1 in 10000 figure is especially striking to me - having grown up around musicians I never thought about how rare it would be amongst the general population, but considering how few musicians I knew would claim to possess it I suppose that does make sense.

I don't know if I really possess "Absolute Pitch" \- I may just have really excellent relative pitch and know one or two reference notes for certain. When I had people test me in high school I usually just listened to the tone versus the "C" in my head and guessed relative to that interval.

Playing music with some musicians drives me crazy because they transpose anything and everything. What key is that song in? Who cares, it's I-IV-V . . . that hurts me. A friend played me a rough demo of a song in person in E, emailed me a recording she made in F, and played it in rehearsal the next day in F#. Just thinking about it makes my skin crawl. I can transpose songs and sing and play in different keys than the first time I heard it, IT JUST HURTS MY BRAIN.

I also hear songs everywhere. That trumpet note held on the jazz recording you are listening to? That's the same guitar note that starts this other song, and now I'm stuck hearing it in my head. What, that doorbell doesn't remind you of the beginning of a Haydn symphony? Well now I know what's playing in my head for the next hour.

The most interesting thing about my pitch sense is that I always find myself riding a motorcycle on the highway at 6600 RPM regardless of what speed I actually want to go. I just gravitate there without thinking about it. Even though my bike is much smoother and stronger at 7000+, I always find myself back at 6600. The unconscious reason? 6600 RPM * 2 cylinders = 220 Hz, or exactly an octave below the concert "A" that orchestras tune to. I've never ridden a triple but if I did I'm pretty sure I'd get stuck at 4400 or 8800 RPM for exactly the same reason. I hate being off-key when I'm riding.

<comment><USER3> > I also hear songs everywhere. That trumpet note held on the jazz recording > you are listening to? That's the same guitar note that starts this other > song, and now I'm stuck hearing it in my head. What, that doorbell doesn't > remind you of the beginning of a Haydn symphony? Well now I know what's > playing in my head for the next hour.

Interesting. I've had no musical training, but I end up noticing "matches" like these constantly. Is there a way to test one's pitch sensitivity?

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> If this drug improves your ability to perceive subtle differences in sound the way children can, I wonder if this could also facilitate learning a language with native-speaker pronunciation? As a German who still can't quite get the "th" sound right after a decade of speaking English fluently and is currently struggling badly with the Arabic غ, I'd find that rather more useful that absolute pitch.

<comment><USER5> This is what I was thinking. I would totally get treatment to 're-open' my critical period and get cracking on some tonal languages!!

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> The best debugging I had ever had was an unexpected comment from a person in the room when I proudly announced that I had written machine language code to generate 440Hz.

He said, "nope, that's 435 or 436."

I had a bug- an extra delay I wasn't counting for.

</comment><comment><USER7> Absolute pitch is often an obstacle in ear training. Speaking as someone who got the highest grade in a few college-level ear-training courses in music degree programs, the students with perfect pitch had a lot of problems that I didn't. Transposition in particular gave them problems. A really strong sense of relative pitch is much more valuable, especially for areas like jazz theory.

<comment><USER8> This is really interesting in that it suggests there may be a tradeoff between being good at two advantageous but somewhat mutually exclusive capabilities. On the one hand "perfect" pitch allows people to recognize sounds precisely, but relative pitchers are better pattern recognizers.

This ties in to my anecdotal observation that a lot of these early and seriously instrument-playing kids seemed really bad at judging general musical aesthetics and improvisation, but at the same time _really_ perfect at straight reproduction. By the same token, musically creative people seemed to experiment a lot, often doing a bunch of really interesting improvisations without giving it much thought.

One of my music teachers was this way, it really was something else listening to him just idly talking and playing around on the piano for entire lesson. On the other hand, he was really bad at identifying individual notes but he could re-play a melody that he heard just once without any problems, immediately going off on several tangents and experimenting on it in different keys.

On a personal note, that was the point where I recognized that I was in neither of these categories. I switched my art class to painting after a while and stayed there ;)

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> The paper says that absolute pitch, the ability to name a tone without hearing other reference tones (i.e. that note is a C#), is typically found in musicians who began training young (below six). This drug seems to reopen that window and let adult brains learn the skill.

Only 24 people in the study though, and just 18 completed it. The hypothesis seems a little optimistic, and given the sample size, I'd say more data needed.

 _" Given the difficulty of improving AP performance in adulthood, we hypothesize that in our task, even a small advantage in pitch class identification in the VPA as compared to the placebo group is suggestive..."_

<comment><USER10> Given that I just spent a good chunk of the evening dissatisfied with my ability to play double bass with superior intonation, I'd really like to see more data on these claims. It would be super useful if the study's initial claims were born out in larger studies, though I am not super eager to start experimenting on myself.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> This reminds me of a few questions I have. Some people claim that perfect or absolute pitch gains the ability to instantly recognize harmonic structures, other people say it's a hindrance to anybody that needs to transpose, or, say, play on an old piano tuned to 432, or listen to pressings of Kind of Blue that're played back sharp. And I've never seen a discussion of PP/AP vs the ability that string and wind players have to play to just intonation (vs. e.g. a piano's equal temperament with octave stretches)

The posts in /r/musictheory are interesting, the one about perfect/absolute pitch being located in the same part of the brain responsible for language recognition, and possibly synesthesia

[http://www.reddit.com/r/musictheory/comments/12j97f/can_abso...](http://www.reddit.com/r/musictheory/comments/12j97f/can_absolute_pitch_be_learned/)

And here trained musicians argue about instant chord recognition and "party trick"-ness. Maybe PP is like "programming language expressiveness" on HN, everybody is certain they know exactly what it means.

[http://www.reddit.com/r/musictheory/comments/12k6ep/the_trut...](http://www.reddit.com/r/musictheory/comments/12k6ep/the_truth_about_perfect_pitch/)</comment>


Things You Didn't Know About Synchronization in Java and Scala - <AUTHOR> http://www.takipiblog.com/2013/08/15/5-things-you-didnt-know-about-synchronization-in-java-and-scala/

<comment><USER2> My favorite (having not read the post but just gone through CS undergrad in Java about four times by weight) was the mandatory locking in multithreaded programs in Java -- you can have parent threads and child threads, and you can set variables in your parent threads before the child threads execute, but unless you're doing it in a locking way (eg. with a shared semaphore) there's no guarantee that the parent thread actually executes before the child thread.

That was a fun one to explain in office hours.

"No no, it's not enough to just put this before that, you have to establish a Happens-Before relationship."

<comment><USER3> _> you can set variables in your parent threads before the child threads execute, but unless you're doing it in a locking way (eg. with a shared semaphore) there's no guarantee that the parent thread actually executes before the child thread_

There are definitely some surprising outcomes from the JMM, but I'm pretty sure this isn't one of them. If I recall correctly, starting a thread automatically synchronizes the current thread with the first thing the child thread does, without any explicit synchronization. So anything done prior to that point in the parent thread will be visible in the child.

<comment><USER2> I do not have the code here to show you, but if I am exaggerating it's a small fib.

Maybe the child thread was created some time before it was started, and the initialization happened some time between those events. It was an example that a friend was working for a class, and as they often do, came to me for help on why it wasn't behaving as expected.

I looked at it and I could see the problem, "you don't have any locks shared between parent and child." We added a lock, synchronized it once in each thread, and the problem went away. That's definitely a surprising outcome for anyone who is accustomed to procedural programming.

<comment><USER3> The implicit synchronization happens at the point the child thread is started, regardless of when it was allocated. Perhaps it was already started prior to the initialization, in which case some form of explicit synchronization would be required to ensure visibility.

FYI, the relevant section of the JLS is 17.4.4: "An action that starts a thread synchronizes-with the first action in the thread it starts." [1].

[1] [http://docs.oracle.com/javase/specs/jls/se7/html/jls-17.html...](http://docs.oracle.com/javase/specs/jls/se7/html/jls-17.html#jls-17.4.4)

<comment><USER2> This sounds more like what we experienced:

> The write of the default value (zero, false or null) to each variable > synchronizes-with the first action in every thread. Although it may seem a > little strange to write a default value to a variable before the object > containing the variable is allocated, conceptually every object is created > at the start of the program with its default initialized values.

I can't get that to jibe in my memory though against:

> The final action in a thread T1 synchronizes-with any action in another > thread T2 that detects that T1 has terminated.

> T2 may accomplish this by calling T1.isAlive() or T1.join().

If we were looking into the threads, it would have been obvious that we should wait for the thread to finish before expecting to find a completed value in it other than the default. That's not what happened.

It's unfortunate that I didn't get a copy of the code in question, because it was a genuine idiosyncrasy in Java and by the time I got around to asking my friend for a copy, he had already rewritten his code in a different way that didn't hit the same bug.

Didn't use revision control, got his degree didn't care to repeat the same miserable exercises, now probably hacking ruby in his day job like me (except I promise I'm using revision control.)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> > Practically all server applications require some sort of synchronization > between multiple threads.

It could be just me but I think the author should've mentioned alternative concurrent programming models available for JVM such as Akka.

<comment><USER5> Just remember under the covers Akka is still using synchronization.

<comment><USER6> You mean internally? The paradigm they use is immutable-message passing and asynchronous/concurrent processing.

<comment><USER5> Yes internally. Somewhere deep in the bowels of the akka code, they are communicating state between threads (last I checked they were using a java concurrent queue by default).

At a bare minimum the changes to the location of the head/tail of a queue will need to be visible to multiple threads requiring volatile variables.

The java concurrent queues don't actually use synchronization blocks, they use native CAS operations but thinking that akka removes shared thread state entirely is dangerous.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> If this is interesting to you then I'd highly recommend Java Concurrency in Practice [1]. It goes through the then-new java.util.concurrent package, but more importantly, does a really good job of making all of the theoretical concepts straightforward to grasp

1 - [http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0321349601](http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0321349601)

<comment><USER8> Great book indeed. Along with effective Java, its one of my alltime favorites. But since its a Java book, it doesnt if I recall correctly detail how things are implemented at the core JVM level. Does anyone know a good book or source about that?

<comment><USER5> It depends on the JVM you are using. If it is an open source one you can look yourself.

A little old but Oracle JRockit: The Definitive Guide is a pretty good book on the JRockit JVM.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Fact #0. If you write 'synchronized' in Java code you are doing it wrong. Seriously. 'synchronized' indicates that the programmer is re-inventing and/or re-implementing a solved problem. In Java parallelism and concurrency for most real-wold problems are handled by frameworks or covered by well-known patterns.

</comment><comment><USER10> What do you mean you didn't know. I knew all that :)</comment>


Google Likes To Steal Others' Thunder  - <AUTHOR> http://www.marksonland.com/2009/04/google_likes_to_steal_others_t.html

<comment><USER2> I think that a portion of this is due to Google's unusual hierarchy model. Between the 20% time projects and the large number of small, loosely related teams, they're constantly trying new strategies (whether internally or in the market).

When a related idea makes headlines, it makes sense to release both to make google look good ("We're one step ahead of you..."), and to draw traffic to otherwise unnoticed projects.

The reason we don't see this type of behavior in other market leaders is that they don't take Google's "Throw lots at the wall and see what sticks" approach (at least not to the same extreme).

Personally I think that taking an 'innovate constantly and let the market sort it out' approach is both a shrewd use of resources (as long as you let failures die early), and a good way to keep from getting too comfortable/over- adapted to one niche. (Although it's worth noting that not many Google projects likely make money without relying on Adsense).

Tech companies (startups included) are uniquely situated to take an 'evolutionary' approach to business because you can

1) Move fast (and cheaply)

2) Quickly identify failures (good metrics) and

3) Keep a fairly flat hierarchy/network, which enables efficient communication.

<comment><USER3> While I largely agree, there are downsides to launching so many "project" services. They end up with a lot of half-baked products under the Google brand.

The end result is that I'm wary of investing time in new Google services. As a business owner, its of the utmost importance to me that my vendors are in for the long haul, and outside of its core areas I don't feel that way about Google.

Google Talk is a great example: I would never switch my primary point of contact to a Google service because I don't trust them to maintain it.

<comment><USER4> Google Talk is based on XMPP, although their implementation of it is supposedly not up to par. I know I can use my gtalk account through pidgin's implementation of XMMP, though.

Gtalk isn't that bad - I know a lot more people who use that than, say, AIM or Yahoo. The client is better than iChat, at least.

What do you use for instant messaging? Time Warner is spinning off AOL. What if AOL finally goes under? Yahoo probably won't go under, but what if they need to make drastic cost cuts and decide to cut off the YIM service?

Probably better off running your own XMPP server and rolling your own client. I mean, you can never tell if any of these other chumps will stay around for the long haul! /s

<comment><USER3> I'm a fool, I meant Google Voice instead of Google Talk, the service they built out of GrandCentral. I don't trust Google to stay interested in the Voice product long enough to change my primary phone number.

Good idea about running our own XMPP server, thanks. If we start interacting with our clients more via chat that would definitely be the way to go.

FWIW, for instant messaging I primarily use Skype, although I have had an AIM account for 10+ years.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I at least know someone who worked (tangentially) on the statistics thing, and it was in the pipeline for a long time. Similarly for things like searchwiki or longer snippets (I've heard of small UI changes sitting around for _years_ ).

I think whats really happening is that when competitors do things its often a validation for the team that is doing it at Google. Further, I think some of this is kind of silly because this is Google we're talking about: the guys who sat on GrandCentral for well over a year in radio silence to... err... migrate it somewhere? Google development methodology is "do it once, do it right", and by God they're going to work on it until its right. This isn't some market analyst telling the engineer to turn up the "copy Cuil" knob or anything.

<comment><USER6> From the article: "Can you imagine Walmart making wholesale changes to its stores because mom and pop's store on the corner implemented some neat features for its customers?"

Yes, if Wal-Mart had the magical power to allow 1% of its visitors to walk through the door to a _completely different store_ , they would have the power to experiment with a lot of things that would arguably make the shopping experience better.

I have no doubt the Google A/B tests a lot of this stuff before rolling it out.

<comment><USER7> Walmart does A/B tests too, they just make the changes to a single store to hit that same 1% of its visitors

<comment><USER4> They'd have to make the changes to 10 stores to hit 1%. Just nitpicking, though :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I'd give them license to be total jerks about it if they'd just deliver the death blow to Office already.

</comment><comment><USER9> WalMart _does_ make large changes to their stores and business models based on what their smaller competition is doing. So does Microsoft. So does Google.

The bottom line is that they are all ruthless competitors and that's why they're all leaders in their space.

It's no coincidence that WalMart and Google have very similar corporate communications strategies, either. Smiley faces and cutesy icons all the way to the firing squad.</comment>


World's Obese Population Hits 641M - <AUTHOR> http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/world-s-obese-population-hits-641-million/ <comment><USER2> Yikes. How sad.

Would be nice, for those who are overweight as well as those who suffer from the externalities of those who are overweight, for Governments to treat overeating/junk food like it does smoking and drinking - an addiction that should be discouraged through education and disincentives (tax etc.). Some do but it's obviously not effective.

Then there's the popular cultural angle. We disparage magazines, fashion Houses and websites that present clinically underweight models as the standard, the same should be applied for the clinically overweight.

<comment><USER3> I don't want to argue that the government can help to raise awareness but isn't it more like personal choice in the end? I'm not obese but with a BMI of 27.8 definitely overweight. How is anyone else is going to help me to lose weight if I don't realize myself that something is wrong and most important of all that I need to change something?

I can decide if I want to drive to McDonald's or to the grocery store to buy some vegetables or other healthy ingredients to prepare a more balanced meal. The first is obviously easier and kinda more convenient but if you look at what it does to your health then maybe not so convenient at all.

What I'm trying to say is that for example I used to love Coke and even drank some for breakfast. I'm not the typical coffee addicted developer but I pumped myself with energy drinks instead. After my brother forced me to get my sugar levels throughly checked this year I saw that I was close to be diagnosed with diabetes and figured that there is no other way than to change my diet.

<comment><USER4> The problem is that for a lot of poorer communities where obesity is most rampant, there is no "grocery store to buy some vegetables or other healthy ingredients" anywhere nearby and owning a car is not a given. So yes, making good choices is important, and most posters on HN are lucky enough to have healthy options easily accessible to them. But a lot of people, even in the US, do not have realistic healthy options available to them.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> In other news corporations feeding people garbage report billions in profits. Go to a supermarket, 90% of the food there is processed garbage. This is by design. We are not healthy because we are being fed our desires for profit, they create addictive food which is bad for you and costs nothing to produce because there is profit in it. Great success for all of humanity.

</comment><comment><USER6> Carbon sequestering. Less CO2 in the atmosphere. Let's hope they don't start exercising.

</comment><comment><USER7> _> …rising global trends in obesity should not overshadow the problem of many people not getting enough to eat. In South Asia, for example, almost a quarter of the population is underweight. In Central and East Africa, about 12 percent of women and 15 percent of men are underweight._

The increase in the obesity gets even more alarming if one considers that out of ~7 Billion world population, one can take ~3 Billion people (India + China + Central Africa) out of the equation as they are affected less than others (the first infographics also supports this notion).

641M of 7B = 10%

600M of 4B = 15%

(Approx numbers just for getting some ballpark indicators)

<comment><USER8> From the article: "More obese men and women now live in _China_ and the United States than in any other country."

<comment><USER7> Yes saw that. But the infographic shows that China is relatively 'green' than other parts of the world (along with India and Central Africa).

My takeway from it (could be wrong) is that in absolute numbers there would be more obese people in china than say in some countries in middle east, but as a percentage of population they are small.

I knew from other other readings that in China this is due to younger generation.

"Within one generation, the percentage of Chinese children who are overweight or obese has skyrocketed from 5% to 20%. The rate has absolutely exploded, over a very limited amount of time." [http://www.theguardian.com/global- development-professionals-...](http://www.theguardian.com/global-development- professionals-network/2015/nov/24/defusing-chinas-childhood-obesity-timebomb)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I think "Sugar: The Bitter Truth" [1] is worth watching. And the newer "The Skinny on Obesity" [2].

[1] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM)

[2] [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL39F782316B425249&fea...](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL39F782316B425249&feature=iv&src_vid=dBnniua6-oM&annotation_id=annotation_945547)

<comment><USER10> These are factually incorrect, as has been proven:

[http://anthonycolpo.com/sweet-stupidity-part-1-is-sugar- real...](http://anthonycolpo.com/sweet-stupidity-part-1-is-sugar-really-as- bad-as-alcohol-cocaine-heroin/)

[http://anthonycolpo.com/sweet-stupidity-part-2-the-bitter- tr...](http://anthonycolpo.com/sweet-stupidity-part-2-the-bitter-truth-about- robert-lustigs-anti-sugar-claims/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I lost 20 pounds in two months by dropping bread/carbs/sweets and eating chicken drumsticks and salad every day. I can finally see my iliac ridge.

<comment><USER12> Fun thought: the people that told you to eat more carbs are the same people that came up with bmi numbers

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> I would rather have 641mm people obese, and solve that problem, than the alternative (641mm starving people, and try to get them food).

The major concern, of course, is that "scientists" on this topic keep changing the advice they give to people, so by the time people finally absorb, and start practicing what they were told to do - the next set of guidance comes out, that is, in some cases, _precisely_ the opposite of what they were told previous.

Here in Singapore, just today, the front page of the newspaper said, "White Rice causing Diabetes, 1 plate of rice = 2 cans of sugary soda." \- while on the inside of the paper, there were talks about increasing taxes on soda, but nothing on white rice....

Hopefully, we'll eventually get some evidence/science based information, guidance, and policy, but I'm not optimistic.

<comment><USER14> Referring to "scientists" that way is unfair.

Nutrition scientists and doctors are working with the human body and its surrounding environment, an exceedingly complex model. They publish their findings in journals with cautions and caveats and data.

A mainstream journalist with traffic quotas or column inches to fill on a slow news day then skims these journals for the next "X makes you fat" or "Y gives you cancer" headline without bothering to read the fine print.

<comment><USER13> I'm not referring to the journalists, I'm referring to the peer reviewed papers, and the scientific consensus regarding proper diet, that turned out to be not only false, but false in a way that likely could have been demonstrated with just a few, fairly straightforward research studies.

It starts, of course, with Dr. Ancel keys, but he wasn't the only person who signed off on the consensus that a high-carbohydrate diet was the right model for the American people.

I use the scare quotes, because what took place after that, was probably the furthest thing from science you could imagine - presuming we agree that the objective of science isn't to pile on the latest theory, but instead to strengthen those theories, by trying to disprove them.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> > It found that over the past four decades, the average age-corrected male BMI > rose to 24.2 from 21.7, and in women rose to 24.4 from 22.1.

Could this be due to an increase in people going to the gym? A bmi of 24.x is still < 30 and not unhealthy.

Therefore, I wonder whether we see two different things here: 1.) More people become obese (those with an bmi > 30 [and even there could be some corner cases due to the fact that bmi is by no means a perfect measure]) and 2.) more people lift weights/become (somewhat) healthier.

<comment><USER13> The number of people (A) going to the gym, (B) doing resistance exercise to build up lean body mass, and (C) doing so on a regular enough basis to make a difference - is round off error.

The entire reason why Gyms are so profitable, is an insignificant number of people who sign up, actually ever go.

<comment><USER16> Incidentally, this is why serious gyms, which are built for powerlifters, Olympic weightlifters, strongmen, and similarly dedicated athletes, charge a lot more money. When you get a membership at a 24-Hour Fitness for $30 per month, you're being subsidized by all the resolutioners who buy a membership and never show up.

Meanwhile, powerlifting gyms cater exclusively to the people who will show up 5 days a week, every week. You don't have that massive pool of resolutioners to provide effort-free cash, so you have to charge more money.

Of course, on the other end is Planet Fitness, which specifically caters to the specific demographics who don't show up and actively discourages the people who will show up 5 days a week. Brilliant strategy.

This is also why every lifter bitches about the lack of squat racks, cramped lifting spaces, and fuckstick trainers at corporate gyms. They are often a net _negative_ for the gym, so the gym doesn't care about them; the folks who occasionally show up and do 20 minutes on the elliptical are where the money is.

<comment><USER13> This, in a nutshell, was why I was so ecstatic about the $20/month membership at Powerhouse Gym (with a $150 sign up fee) downtown Redwood City, CA. Perfect location, not one, but _two_ squat racks that were rarely used. Shoulder press rack. They didn't get on your case if you dropped your deadlift and smack chalk all over the place, and had towel service and really decent showers.

I didn't realize, until I visited many, many other cities - that finding a gym that you can do your squats/deadlift/shoulder press three times a week for $20, is pretty much unheard of.

I sometimes even see it advertised for $17 (presumably with a slightly higher sign up fee) - This is really clever - if you've already invested, say, $200, and you have this pretty cool downtown gym, and it's _only_ $17/month - why on earth would you ever cancel...

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Of course it does. HDI and obesity correlate quite well. Of course our definition of obesity is also completely arbitrary so...

<comment><USER17> What is arbitrary about it? It's pretty straightforward -- when a person has so much body fat that it has a negative effect on their health.

Sure, it depends on the person and their tolerance _negative effect_ , but there isn't any fumbling with BMI or flatly checking a person's weight.

<comment><USER12> Arbitrary because A) BMI (the measure that this article and all obesity crisis statistics use) is a nonsense number that for instance penalizes you for being tall (hey guess what happens when children grow up healthy? They grow up taller) B) the number at which you 'become' obese has no real medical backing (partly because it's a nonsense number.

The American obesity crisis for instance is largely because we dropped our arbitrary threshold down to the WHO's threshold and gained some tens of millions of obese citizens in the process.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> It's going to be tough for me to find a wife.

</comment><comment><USER19> When you walk into Tesco everyday noticing that crisps for dinner would be the cheapest option, this report is no big surprise!

<comment><USER20> Brittish? I'll never be able to think of crisps as dinner.

And wouldn't noodlesoup be even cheaper, and healtier too?

<comment><USER21> > And wouldn't noodlesoup be even cheaper, and healtier too?

That would depend on if the crisps were fried in transfats. Otherwise they both end up as a ball of diabetes-causing carb covered in salt.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Isn't obesity a uh good problem to have?

<comment><USER23> Sure not starving is good. Beyond that, you tell us:

[http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/my-600-lb- life/videos/7-000-calo...](http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/my-600-lb- life/videos/7-000-calories-a-day/)

<comment><USER21> Of course, people this fat are 0.00001% of the population, so I'm not sure it's the best example.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> The 641M number provides context for the media narratives regarding fat acceptance and body shaming. Perhaps worse than the epidemic of people being overweight, is growing sympathy to accept and not to do anything about it. If you have been following social justice issues you will understand what I am referring to. This issue is beyond health, since it has been made political. Addressing it likely requires fighting back against rhetoric from the fat acceptance movement. (Not looking for an argument, just saying.)

<comment><USER25> >Perhaps worse than the epidemic of people being overweight, is growing sympathy to accept and not to do anything about it.

Really? Worse then actual suffering and societal costs is the treatment of obesity as a disease and not a character flaw? Not only should people suffer, but they should be shamed for it.

That's ridiculous. Just saying.

<comment><USER24> > Really? Worse then actual suffering and societal costs is the treatment of > obesity as a disease and not a character flaw? Not only should people > suffer, but they should be shamed for it.

What an overly sensitive response. How ridiculous is Hacker News? Where did I say anything about [1] the suffering, [2] societal costs, or [3] treatment of obesity as a disease?

Mentioned it's political and has a media component to it, get attacked. There factually are people, like the parent comment, who will not fairly discuss the issue on neutral terms. Derailed into personal attacks, insensitivity, or straw man arguments like the above comment. How can HN parade itself as intellectual discussion when it can't even handle benign comments.

<comment><USER21> You're being the overly sensitive one here. You said that fat people should be shamed because being fat makes you sick, someone replied that it doesn't seem right that people who are suffering because they are sick because they are fat should also be suffering because they are being shamed because they are sick because they are fat, and you started crying "I'm the victim in all of this! I'm being shamed for suggesting that people should be shamed because they are sick because they are fat! Won't somebody think about me!"

<comment><USER24> > You said that fat people should be shamed because being fat makes you sick

Haha, is this a joke? Is anyone else seeing this insanity?</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>