Ask HN: How to shadow a CEO? - <AUTHOR> I have the opportunity to shadow a CEO/Founder of  a $25 million dollar company. The company is in the fresh produce sector - not an industry that I ever really considered, but the founder has been able to build it up from nothing to one of Inc's fastest growing companies in just 6 years.  I have free reign to attend meetings/calls in all departments, and I have committed to 4 hours, 3 days a week. The CEO is a friend so there's an established relationship. My longterm goal is to own my company and I want to learn how a successful business is run and the leadership skills required.
I've never done this before, so my questions are how do I get the most out of this great opportunity? How can I add value to him? How long should I continue this internship? Any other best practices/recommendations?
Thank you so much in advance! <comment><USER2> Listen. Listening is a multi-dimensional skill. Observe their communication skills primarily their non-verbal communication. Do they attempt to dominate the space around them? Are they receptive to input? Are they patient or hurried? What is their degree of empathy? Are they touchy?

Also watch the non-verbal communication responses of the people who interact with the CEO. Are these people charmed or put off? Is there a receptive common understanding? Is there an eagerness of participation or does the CEO surround himself with cowardly _yes men_?

Second, pay careful attention to their choice of vocabulary. How does the CEO articulate abstract thoughts? Do they use humor to soften moods? Are they bottom line up front? Do they stutter? Do they pause to organize their words before speaking or does it just flow like a waterfall? Is there a crispness, clarity, or articulation you find particular?

Third, how do they use their time? Focus more on the idle moments when they aren't actively engaging with people or specifically focused on a dedicated planned task. Do they stare off into space brainstorming? Do fidget with a gadget (probably a phone)? Are they calm, restful, or a busy body?

Fourth, what do their notes look like? How they write things down or record things is an indication of how they want they to remember things. It isn't the full picture of how they organize their thoughts, but it is a large picture on what they choose to organize. This is a view into their priorities and may reflect things you would not otherwise consider important.

If you have never been in management yourself you may find yourself focusing on their goals or the things they want you to see instead of the important things you are not yet prepared to look for. Don't worry about the interpersonal relationships or the people they want to introduce you to. This sounds really important, but I promise its a red herring unless you need to engage those same people directly on your own.

<comment><USER3> This sounds almost like a rubric for _evaluating_ the CEO rather than learning from them. In the sense that from the paragraphs above it seems you have already an answer for what the _good_ CEO _should_ do.

For example, what does one learn from a successful CEO who is dominant, unempathetic, surrounded by yes men, and fiddles with their phone?

Perhaps I'm not reading this correctly, and you mean look at these traits and note how (perhaps counterintuitively) effective or ineffective they are?

<comment><USER2> At a certain point in life this sort of listening, or mind reading, becomes non-cognitive. You do this without deliberation and have trouble turning it off. I suppose the idea is to better understand and possibly anticipate the forth coming decisions from how they treat people, self reflect, and plan.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Set the habit from the beginning to do quick debriefs (a few minutes) after each meeting. The most interesting thing when shadowing very senior people is to see _why_ they do certain things.

Try to have 1 question ready after each meeting/call/... Why did you agree to the terms? What was the most important thing about this call? Why did you handle it like that? What did you try to get out of this meeting? How did you know they were going to say X? Try to get a sense of _why_ they make certain decisions, how they think about it.

<comment><USER5> The terms of immediacy are a great reminder of the importance of the 97 % of nonverbal context. Consider for example, the great American classic essay from Harvard Business Review "How to Run a Meeting" (1976, first published.)

<comment><USER6> Link: [https://hbr.org/1976/03/how-to-run-a- meeting](https://hbr.org/1976/03/how-to-run-a-meeting)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> 1\. first and foremost, ask yourself WHY this CEO is giving you her valuable time? It's a lot of inconvenience for the CEO. There must be a real reason (more than just being a friend). You need to know the reason for you being there. Otherwise you are flying blind, and can easily say the wrong thing without knowing

e.g. if the CEO is doing this as a way to recruit you, don't say out loud in the meeting "I am going to start my own company after this". It will embarrass her in front of her team.

2\. try to schedule the meetings to near end-of-day, and see if you can get to a social-event (e.g. after-work drinks) with the CEO and other executives. That's usually where the real conversations happen, and you find out the real "behind-the-scenes" info

<comment><USER8> I second the importance of 2,after the work drink or no-blackjack "behind the scenes" for its where the real business is, the rest is just the "acting". I agree in pointing the importance of the reason he/she was granted that position. Chances are parent is considered smart and polite and capable enough to be there, so maybe parent should just use his skills and go directly to open his company, or don't stay too long there, don't get used to be a shadow, even if you make good, comfortable bucks, if the desire is to open one's own company. Anyway, if the best thing if you are not just procrastinating in opening your own company is to go to your friend who owns 25 million bucks company and ask him if he would put some of his hard-nosed earn money in your plan for a company. Ask him to tell you as honestly as a friend can possibly be honest in this word, why he will not put the money that costed him his blood and sweat in your plan for a company. His honest answer would be enough what you need to learn from him in relation to opening this specific company you plan. Moreover, Whenever and wherever you see the word "opportunity" , be aware "opportunity" is a dangerous word, and all scam in the world comes from the word "opportunity".

<comment><USER9> > I second the importance of 2,after the work drink or no-blackjack "behind > the scenes" for its where the real business is

This isn't true at all. Socializing is important for gaining trust, but the real work still happens in the office.

<comment><USER10> Let's rephrase: the real work happens in the office, but during informal meetings many underlying motives and decision drivers become visible, so such times allow a deep insight into how a business works

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> If you are shadowing, it is best to either have them introduce you (if needed) and then say silent. Don't be part of the action unless specifically invited. Observe and listen. In my opinion, taking copious notes might make people nervous. Try to take notes during breaks or the end of the day. Good luck!

<comment><AUTHOR> Great, thank you! I definitely don't want to overstep my boundaries, but I want to bring some kind of value. The CEO did initially try to recruit me for his sales team, based on my success at another company. Do you think it's ok to offer to help with some sales calls or essentially anything else that he thinks I can contribute to?

<comment><USER12> It feels a little like Schrödinger's cat - if you contribute, you alter not just the direction and content of the meeting, but also the dynamic. By getting involved (opening the box) you would irrevocably alter what you observe.

If my goal was _truly_ to observe the CEO and learn from him, my approach would be to be as silent and 'small' as possible - don't speak, don't draw attention to myself, sit behind the table, not at it, etc. I'd want everyone --including the CEO-- to forget I was even there.

I suggest you need to figure out what your goal truly is: to learn from him, or to 'bring value' for some reason? I'm not sure the two are compatible.

<comment><AUTHOR> You make a good point. I think my need to bring value comes from being so grateful for the opportunity - I feel like I need to do something for him because he's doing something for me. I guess my time to 'repay' him will come later.

<comment><USER13> I would suggest keeping your contributions limited to 1-on-1 conversations with the CEO, preferably soon after a meeting.

Taking a role in meetings could potentially create a lot of awkward power dynamics between you and the other executives, in my opinion.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> That is a super opportunity!

If you can, attend meetings with the CEO with the goal of observing these things;

       * Conflict resolution
       * Group commitment
       * Performance management and expectation setting
       * Information sharing/hiding
       * Individual empowerment and delegation

Those are the key interactions that come to mind when operating a company on a day to day basis. I'd suggest you take notes of all your observations at the meeting and then spend ask the CEO to tell you what they saw. What did they like? What concerned them? Given the meeting what did they see as the actions that would best help the situation move forward toward resolution.

Dan Warmenhoven once told me that he spent a lot of time trying to help people get things _finished._ As he described it, people can get caught up in the thrill of "doing things" and that is great, but they can also be afraid of the "what am I going to do after this is done?" question. As a result the project they are working on stretches on and on because it pushes off the scary question of "What next?"

It is a balancing act to keep what ever comes next exciting enough that people want to finish the current project and get on to it, versus making the next project so exciting that they cut corners finishing the current project to get on to it!

</comment><comment><USER15> You learn by doing and putting skin into game not by watching or listening random CEO advice.

The only thing you will learn is that if your friend could create a $25M company _you can do this too_. This is how we grow--by imitating our closest peers and we start as babies imitating our parents and siblings. Creating a $25m company is btw not that hard, creating a multibillion company is.

Everything else, stuff you will see and his advices won't help you because once you are in the situation yourself you won't be able to use that stuff. Long story, I'll tell why another time.

Found a company yourself _now_ and let him coach you/make intros to investors and let him check your overall pitch. If you don't have any ideas for a business ask him. This will be your first mission.

Shadowing a CEO without having a clear mission is douchy.

<comment><USER16> I would completely disregard this advice.

> "Everything else, stuff you will see and his advices won't help you because > once you are in the situation yourself you won't be able to use that stuff. > Long story, I'll tell why another time."

How could you know for certain it wouldn't help him?

Moreover, humans have mirror neurons which respond to actions that we observe in others. These mirror neurons fire in the same way when we actually recreate that action ourselves.

So if the student observes with intent, then his brain could subconsciously 'download' the CEO's behaviors.

<comment><USER8> >"I would completely disregard this advice"

Much to the opposite, au contraire, I would say this is the best of all advices written here, as it goes to the point as if the OP wants to open a company of his own or just procrastinate, to use a less mild tone, as in your comment.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> > I've never done this before

Really happy you mentioned this because on the face of it, this is a colossal waste of time.

Shadowing someone in the duration you have mentioned is the equivalent to buying a Tony Robbins book about Entrepreneurship, reading it and then proclaiming to be an Entrepreneur when really Mark Cuban has it right and they are just a Wantrepreneur.

I know this sounds pretty harsh, but you have no skin in the game. You won't be making any decisions, you won't feel the weight of them either. You won't be telling staff to start and project and then see all the problems associated with getting it finished.

There's no muscle memory to be gained here.

Here's what I would do. Tell your friend, instead of shadowing to make you a manager with a member of staff. To then give you a small project to deliver. Something that's well outside of your comfort zone. Ask him, to have himself or another manager to be available for mentorship when you need it.

Now you'll be in a position to find out for yourself:-

1) What makes a good leader

2) How to effectively communicate to staff.

3) How to handle problems that come up in running projects.

4) How to plan a project and then to complete one.

5) How to manage a budget.

6) Everything else in between.

Doing is far better than watching and by doing so, gets you a lot of experience for when you want to do it yourself.

\</comment><comment>-

Honestly though. I would just start my business today and have the CEO friend as a mentor.

Fail and fail often: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNDA-o9yJNw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNDA-o9yJNw)

<comment><USER18> idk,

a lot of the internships that people get in college are functionally job shadowing opportunities,

I think most of the advice given in this thread would be excellent advice to a person starting college internship,

Depending on the field, who you're shadowing, they're willingness to share, and your ability to receive what they're sharing

I suspect that can be valuable for a certain period of time

(I suspect that you're correct that returns on that experience can often diminish quickly)

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> I would not be comfortable having an arbitrary personal friend of the CEO sitting in on my important meetings.

<comment><USER20> I agree with your concerns. It would also be significant as to how the CEO introduces the "friend" if at all. In business meetings it is usual to introduce everybody to everybody and indicate in what capacity they are attending the meeting. So a silent shadow would raise eyebrows at a minimum.

<comment><USER21> Agreed. Before my shadow day I get the CEO to send a quick email to everyone in the company introducing myself, why I'm in the office etc. This seems to work well.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> You mentioned "adding value" a few times, but if you are truly job shadowing then that should not be a goal of yours. Job shadowing is about observing and learning. Just watch and listen, and do your best to humbly stay out of the way.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you. This gives me clarity. My need to contribute was my way of showing him how grateful I am, but that can come at a later time.

<comment><USER22> Totally understandable. Later seems appropriate, and your feedback after completing this process will probably be pretty valuable to your friend.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Eat fresh produce.

Seriously. Believing in the mission is the first step. Acting upon it is the second.

I bet nothing ingratiates you as much as this. It shows them that you "get it", are serious about your own aspirations, and are willing to do whatever it takes to get there. And it will probably open every little door and window just a little bit further.

<comment><AUTHOR> That's a great idea! I'm already all about eating well and fresh produce so I'm all set :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> I am a CEO, but not a particularly excellent one. If I were to Shadow a CEO, I would be interested in...

\- the speed they make decisions, especially in terms of how much they know and don't know at the time of the decision. \- the "level" of conversations they are having. Are they strategic or tactical? Or maybe more relational. \- how much time do they spend doing any sort of deliverable work? \- how do they take notes or set reminders? \- how frequently is their admin with them and what sorts does the admin NOT handle? \- how do they deliver corrective feedback? \- how is their time divided between strategy, finance, and people?

Then observing those things would lead to lots of questions.

Also, I would ask who they would pick to lead the company if they retired tomorrow.

</comment><comment><USER25> The most important insight to have going into something like this is that there's absolutely no guarantee whatsoever that the CEO is good at his job, or that any given thing you observe should be taken as a positive example.

By definition there is _something_ he is doing or has done that is exceptional, but he may be succeeding in spite of many terrible habits or behaviors.

With that in mind it's a guarantee that you should be able to learn quite a bit from spending time observing.

But don't fall for a classic beginners mistake of assuming that because just someone is successful all of the things they are doing should be counted as causes of that success.

</comment><comment><USER8> I have had a few times, the experience of being all the working time and extra-time together with CEOs of different businesses, in different countries, and I have met some wealthy people on this "job", I wont risk saying amounts, but probably only one or two of them has more value in companies than the 25 mi you describe. I have met, in few days meetings, or one-time meeting, people with an order of magnitude, at least, the value you mention in personal wealth. In my case, I was regarded as advisor, right-hand, "friend" and "partner", and to this very day some of them are still sending me messages to ask me to go back to work with them. I have concluded its all just delaying me in starting my own company, and I ignore everything now, literally eat Ramen noodles, and focus on my programming project, that I have been delaying for years, despise all close people calling me crazy, when they see people driving a million dollar car knocking at my door and I say I don't have time, send them away! and they know I'm eating noodles just, I will keep on the field I choose and I believe is the one for me to make money, even with zero experience in this field besides a half-complete toy program, and having years of experience and sizeable knowledge in other profitable fields, in the end I have to do what I believe will make me my Own money, and is better to start my own business, otherwise one can spend his life helping other peoples' business.

</comment><comment><USER26> If you want to contribute/bring value, learn as much as you can about the company. Why are things structured the way they are? What needs to happen for the company to be successful? What things are that way "for a good reason", and what things have just "always been that way"?

The most valuable thing you can bring to your CEO friend is a trusted outside perspective on his company. Go in with humility and an open mind.

As far as getting the most out of the opportunity, there are 2 big takeaways I would look for:

1) Learn all about the types of work required for the job. If you're early in your career, it's good to try lots of things and see what sort of work you enjoy (even if you want to own your own company, you'll want to know what sort of work you'll want to bring in help for).

2) Meet as many people as you can! I believe that a huge part of the compounding "interest" of career growth is in relationships built. If you're shadowing the CEO, that gives you lots of access to other executives (but don't count out anyone at any level - everyone you meet can teach you something!).

Build your network by making good relationships with the people you meet. Who knows? You may meet a future co-founder there. And if not, the people you meet may be able to make good introductions: "A" players know other "A" players. Invest in the relationships with the A players.

Finally, you should be on the same page with the CEO with the direction or outcome of the internship. Are you looking to land a job at this company? Do you want an introduction to other opportunities? If your CEO friend wants to help you, make it easy for him by letting him know exactly how you want to be helped.

Good luck!

</comment><comment><USER27> There are many things that he wouldn't know because he gets presented a filtered view that makes his direct reports look better

1/ how processes actually work (theory versus reality)

2/ inefficiencies (wasted time/wasted money)

3/ opportunities (to make more money/save money)

4/ If people are actually happy or just saying they are

5/ If his middle management is any good or not

6/ People at risk of leaving

7/ Training issues (people asking how things work who have worked there a long time)

8/ Attitude issues (laziness, turf wars, "it's not my job", shoving problems to somebody else)

9/ Surfacing ideas from people dealing directly with clients or the actual work (skip-level reporting)

I think that your time commitment is too low to really get into it but given that's the time you have I would start at the bottom to gain trust and neutrality and work the way up. You need a credible "role" that would make people open up to you but where it would make sense you talk to everybody (e.g. MBA student from a business school doing an internship and associated dissertation).

I wouldn't return value to the CEO until you stop the experiment because the moment you communicate it, things will change and you lose neutrality and trust.

</comment><comment><USER21> This is a great opportunity, I'm excited for your inevitable professional growth from doing this.

To help my own professional growth I have now shadowed 5 CEOs for 1 day each and have found it the highest ROI growth/training exercise I've done.

I have a doc that provides lots of advice, templates etc feel free to use and share: [https://goo.gl/BJ8GTT](https://goo.gl/BJ8GTT)

My general pieces of advice

\- every CEO is different, so do this 1-2 times a year to gain a breadth of insights

\- take advantage of lunch time and the few mins between meetings so that you can ask follow up questions from your observations

\- to add value back to the CEO you're shadowing, summarise your observations of them and their business

\- talk to 3-5 employees (all levels) to understand from them what makes their CEO great and what they could improve on

\- you'll gain lots of insights into how to run a startup, culture learnings etc so don't limit your learning to just CEO insights

Feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

Timbo

<comment><USER28> How many people can find 5 CEOs to shadow 1-2 times a year?

<comment><USER29> People who live in silicon valley can probably do it easily. I was there for an interview a few years ago and met 2 CEOs just at the local bar.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> I searched the comment thread for the word "notepad" and found nothing...

Bring a couple of notepads and pens and take notes relentlessly. Stuff that you think you'll remember later is likely to slip away very quickly if you don't write it down. When you have notes, it is much easier to recall other details.

</comment><comment><USER31> There are several drivers for human behavior in an organization (e.g. compensation, satisfaction, loyalty, etc.). According to Simon Sinek's "Start With Why" book the most powerful driver is having a common sense of purpose. A bigger goal that the organization wants to achieve and that defines WHY they to WHAT they do (here: fresh produce).

I think getting to know the "Why" and finding out how the CEO communicates, establishes, and motivates people towards the "Why" is a valuable lesson. It imagine it to be very hard given the limited time you will be spending with the CEO, but since you are in an established relationship with them, it could be easier to get to the point in conversations.

It's a great opportunity that you have there and I wish you the best of success in your shadowing.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you! I will also check out Simon Sinek's book.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> The challenges of starting a company are different form the challenges of running/growing a $25 million dollar company. That being said, you will still learn a lot from shadowing him.

I think you have a few options: a. Shadow him. This in itself will be fairly useful.

b. Shadow him plus. If you want to do this, I feel like offering to potentially sending him an end of month report later-on on a particular aspect he wants might not be a bad idea. To do this well, you might want to spend 25%-50% of your time in meetings where he is not there depending on the report topic.

c. Offer to help on a top strategic initiative of his - This is personally what I would do. You will have an awesome project under your belt and will learn from the experience.

d. Work for him - If he is paying you he will likely want you in a specific role. I feel like this might be the least helpful to you in the long term.

</comment><comment><USER33> A lot of good advise here, I think that even though you want to be helpful and useful your best bet is to be seen and not heard. People are going to behave differently with you there already, don't "taint" the observation by reminding them you are there. Also I saw one of your comments about wanting to help, possibly the sales team. I'm sure you are coming from a good place but I really think you would be best off just giving a "report" to the CEO at the end with anything you've noticed rather than trying to jump in and help.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you! Any suggestions of useful topics/notes that I should track of to include in a report?

<comment><USER33> Disclaimer: I don't know you, your personality, or work ethic so please don't think I'm trying to be condescending or think you don't understand basic social norms, I'm just trying to cover all the bases and make sure you don't slip up like I have or have seen others do in the past.

It's a little hard for me to say not knowing the full situation but given you are friends/friendly with this CEO some level of constructive criticism or inefficiencies that you see. It's important to temper that advice and make sure if come across as "here is what I saw" and not "here is what you are doing wrong". Remember, your advice might not be new and they may have already attempted or researched some of your ideas and found them lacking. Just don't go in with a know-it-all attitude, be gracious and potentially hold back any criticisms until asked.

Also I would make a point to write down and convey to the CEO things you see that are being done right/efficiently. This will help balance out any issues you report and, to be brutally honest, make the CEO feel better about letting you shadow them. You don't have to brown nose but don't be a negative Nancy either.

It's going to be hard to for me to give you "useful topics/notes that I should track of to include in a report" because I just don't know that industry and frankly if I were in your shoes I would just go in with a blank slate and record everything I saw/heard of note then try to reflect on what I've recorded at the end of the day instead of looking for specific things.

Best of luck to you and I hope it goes well. I'd love a followup (not with any specific details necessarily) about how it goes!

<comment><AUTHOR> This is awesome, thank you so much! I will definitely follow up.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> You can also stop kissing ass and start your own thing, making mistakes is part of the process, you learn by doing, not by "shadowing" someone successful. Just be a human being , if is your job to br the guy's assistant and you like this kind of role, enjoy! But if what you want is to become someone like him, go out and do crap. Your naivety is your greater weapon. Just be a human being , no someone's pet/servant.

<comment><AUTHOR> I appreciate that and I totally agree. I haven't figured out quite yet what I want to do, and thought this would be a good opportunity to learn while I'm sorting things out.

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> I was CEO of a small startup until recently, and then I stepped down (one of my other co-founder took the CEO role).

It was a tough moment for me, and I am still wrapping my head around things that didn't go as intended.

What do you think are the most important traits of an early stage startup CEO?

And, if you live in the Bay Area, would any experienced CEO reading this willing to spend an hour with me to help me review the feedback I got, and my story? It would be really helpful.

<comment><USER11> I would make your request to sit down with another CEO a separate Ask HN, so it does not get lost. Good luck!

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> Mastery is a book that talks about this concept of mentor-apprentice I strongly recommend this book for your case.

<comment><AUTHOR> Mastery by George Leonard, right? I've read it before and still have a copy that I will reread.

<comment><USER37> I strongly suspect they are referring to Mastery by Robert Greene

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I would focus more on learning the industry than learning the CEO. The CEO's choice of lunch or idiosyncratic work habits matter less than the ton of insider knowledge that you'll get in the specific area that they work in.

</comment><comment><USER38> I'd try to treat it as an extended interview for a chief of staff type position, if that's what you want. Find ways to help this CEO, don't just randomly attend meetings, which sounds totally useless.

</comment><comment> d--b For those who have no clue like me, what does shadowing mean/entail?

<comment><AUTHOR> It entails sitting in on meetings, following the CEO around during his day to day work and seeing how things generally run at a company this size. He has allowed me to sit on meetings/calls in any department so I will probably be switching between being with him and the sales team.

</comment></comment><comment><USER39> An idea would even be ask the CEO you're shadowing these questions. Surprised no one has said that yet.

</comment><comment><USER40> great attitude, but is shadowing also interning? Intern add value, but if you are shadowing - that implies being seen/never heard.

Seems you could get more value and give more as an intern. never too old to intern!

</comment><comment><USER41> Everybody else has some good advice here.

But for me, if I were in your position, I'd only want to learn the answers to 3 simple questions:

1) Tell me about your first sale in this market, and all of the circumstances surrounding it.

2) How did you get that first customer?

3) Before you made that first sale to that first customer, what was the set of problems you realized or experienced that led to the value creation that resulted in that first sale?

In other words, what's the inception point of this $25 million dollar company?

The answers to those simple questions should answer a lot...

Bonus Question: What was the toughest problem you faced in getting this company to a $25 million company, and how did you solve it?

I'll bet that will open up a great discussion!</comment>


Show HN: Dazzle – Mobile web browser designed from first principles - <AUTHOR> https://dazzle.now.sh <comment><USER2> Tried Dazzle few times this afternoon and this browser is just brilliant.

Why: Currently, user interaction with tabs on mobile browsers is totally broken and super cumbersome. Dazzle is merging browsing history with tabs which is smart and leads to a super smooth user experience. Actually, there are no tabs anymore, just the browser history which pops ups every time you touch the address bar at the bottom. Simple but nice solution.

Moreover, it offers a bigger viewport than Safari does (no iOS navigation bar at the bottom und a black slick and super slim address bar).

Finally, I like the slightly rounded corners of the viewport. All small and subtle stuff but shows that the creator cares about a polished appearance.

But I am not sure about the landing page and this 'first principle' thing. People don't get it and it sounds super awkward. Really remake the landing page, make it slicker, put some screenshots there, remove the first principle blabla, find a punchy headline and remake all the copy.

You should definitely keep on working on this and not let yourself getting discouraged. The product and the minimalistic approach you chose is excellent, the Marekting/branding not so.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks! That's exactly what excites us as well and motivated us to work on this.

What message would you use on the landing page?

<comment><USER2> > What message would you use on the landing page?

Good question and not sure myself.

You could make it straight and simple and put the focus on the missing tabs. Then, your header would be something like 'The No-tabs Browser'. This might be again too simple and you could get a bit more abstract and stress your minimalstic approach ('The Less-is-More Browser'). However, I'd tend to be to the point and build a story around the main feauture.

Or you find a new hook in the communication, e.g. privacy. Then, your UI is kind of nice side-benefit and the DNA.

How many are you and where are you from?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> As a product page visitor using mobile your page is useless to me. No screenshots, no intro video. I'm not going to make a commitment to using something without either of those two.

<comment><USER4> For me it's something that actually stood out. Just the features.

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Hi HN!

I built dazzle with Antoine out of the frustration of having to use tabs on mobile. We wanted to explore a shared history/tabs mechanism that we expected to be particularly adapted to mobile usage.

After a few months of dog fooding we felt like it was time to share it publicly even if it's still a bit rough on the edges (and very experimental really).

Hope you have fun trying it, feedback welcome and encouraged.

<comment><USER5> Nice work on this. I actually like the simplicity of it. Feels light weight and fast.

We live in an era of distrust so without seeing your terms / privacy policy I was not comfortable logging into a site with a password so may be worth adding a blurb about that. On the bottom where you display the URL, I value seeing HTTPS where applicable as well. I don't want to feel like I am losing security by using this. Last thought, it would be nice to customize the homepage away from google. This one is just vanity though. Good work and good luck.

<comment><AUTHOR> Hi! That's fair. Pending terms of services; you have access to the source code here: [https://github.com/spolu/dazzle](https://github.com/spolu/dazzle)

Of course; this is all very experimental for now.

PS: that's the whole point of a Show HN :-)

<comment><AUTHOR> Also there is no server. We don't store any data outside the app / your phone.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> This looks very promising. A few things:

I couldn't find a gesture to bring up sharing/action extensions [1]. This is super important. For example, I use 1Password for logins all the time.

Also, the rounded corners are distracting and look like an anachronism. I want to view a web page the way it was intended, i.e. not with rounded corners. It should be possible to turn it off.

The "X" in the URL field is confusing. I took it mean that it would clear the field, which is how a lot of iOS input fields work. But it actually closes the pane. I recommend moving it somewhere else and putting back the classic "X" that _does_ clear the field.

No way to reload a page without going into the URL field and hitting "Go" again is a bit annoying.

The "history" is nice as a shorthand, but it's not good enough to be the real web browsing history. I like to keep all my history so I can search it. (No history search either?)

I get the idea of using browser history as a substitute for tabs. However, if it's going to work, it has to _work_ like tabs. Right now, if I go back to a previously visited page, it will not preserve any of its state (such as scroll position or form contents).

[1] [https://developer.apple.com/ios/human-interface- guidelines/e...](https://developer.apple.com/ios/human-interface- guidelines/extensions/sharing-and-actions/)

</comment><comment><USER7> What are the "first principles" you based the design on?

<comment><AUTHOR> Mostly a shared tab/history system that feel much more adapted to mobile. To a certain degree, access to everything without changing hand or an additional hand.

Under the hood there's only one WKWebview and that makes it feel surprinsingly I have to admit slightly faster.

<comment><USER8> So is the main value prop a browser that can be controlled with one hand?

I don't want to sound like a hater, but don't call it "designed from first principles" if it really isn't that.

<comment><AUTHOR> What about the shared tab/history concept?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> What security promises can you make? How do I know that you're not hijacking my cookies and passwords? I atleast trust apple and Google with my data before even opening their browsers

<comment><AUTHOR> Completely understandable. There is no server, we don't store any data outside the app and the source code is available here [https://github.com/spolu/dazzle](https://github.com/spolu/dazzle)

But of course this is Show HN material so still totally experimental.

<comment><USER10> From the code it seems like pages can navigate to `file://` URLs?

I don't have a bin handy or I would check myself.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Nice job! Of all the third party browsers I've tried on iOS, this is the only one that feels as nice as mobile Safari, and the only one I'd consider using full time.

Do you have any plans to implement bookmarks, or any way to "pin" items in the history? I use the mobile Safari favorites all the time for quick access to 4 or 5 sites. Seems like the one thing missing from Dazzle.

<comment><USER12> Thank you! Spot on, we'd like to add a pinning functionality in the future, to keep track of to-dos for instance. We haven't gotten to it just yet.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Just tried this a bit, I like the idea of a simple browser, have tried lots.

Like having the address at the bottom, hate that Safari has this and tabs at opposite ends of tge phone. Corners are cute. Agree with Lobster that "X" is confusing, but useful... seems like the right button with the wrong symbol.

It would also be nice if the last few pages could be frozen, so as not to lose scroll position and half typed comments... but perhaps hard? One better than safari would be to show which tabs are still loaded.

How do I clear cookies? My vote would be for this to happen in the background, perhaps 24hrs after I looked at the page which put them there.

Is it possible for it to use my iOS content blockers?

</comment><comment><USER14> Great app, totally going to start using it on a day to day basis. It looks like deep links appear to be broken for me:

Link [https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/public-wifi- nyc/id1232095734...](https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/public-wifi- nyc/id1232095734?mt=8)

Renders this screen [http://imgur.com/a/E29QX](http://imgur.com/a/E29QX)

Also is there better place I can submit this kind of feedback?

EDIT:

Found github repo and made an issue: [https://github.com/spolu/dazzle/issues](https://github.com/spolu/dazzle/issues)

</comment><comment><USER15> Wow, this is done in React Native: [https://github.com/spolu/dazzle](https://github.com/spolu/dazzle)

<comment><USER16> How hard would it be to compile a version for Android?

<comment><AUTHOR> It's a bit optimized for WKWebView for now... but not impossible to support android with a bit of work

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> It isn't tab management that is keeping the web from shining on mobile devices, it is basically the load time of webpages + Javascript, I think. Also the inability for the user to decide to store a website, so it loads faster the next time, including, for example, those GIF sites that take so much to load every time someone sends you a GIF that they may prefer to download the GIF and send it directly on the IM app.

</comment><comment><USER18> What is the point of having a third party browser on iOS when you can't change the default from Safari?

</comment><comment><USER19> What does first principle mean here? Is it a from-scratch engine or is it a redesign of the chrome, or both?

</comment><comment><USER20> just installed it, i'm loving it. Most important to me is that it's FAST. Feels much faster than iOS Safari and iOS Chrome.

I tried to like Brendan Eich's Brave browser for about 2 weeks, but I didn't detect any clear advantages, so I stopped.

Keep up the good work!

</comment><comment><USER21> If it had options to block ads, I would be very interested.

</comment><comment><USER22> This is hot. Nice work.</comment>


Ask HN: Do you also feel you won't be as good at working as you once were? - <AUTHOR> I have come to the realization that I will probably never go back to being as good as I was as employee as when I was in my late 20s.
Now I have kids, a house, dog, so many things to think about, so many things to do. I start working at 9am and I am already tired due to all the obligations I had since I woke up. I make very stupid mistakes I didn't do before. The time it takes me to complete tasks is much slower than it was before.
Yes there is the added experience and skills and everything, but I think that for most situations, now-me is just a crappier developer than past-me, and I can't see in my horizon any possibility of me going back to what I once was. I don't think I will ever be as motivated as I was before.
Do you people share this experience? <comment><USER2> After 40 years in the software biz I can tell my energy and memory aren't what they once were. But that's been more than offset by my experience. I can look at problems and recognize and solve them in minutes while the 20-somethings try to figure out where to start. When everything is new it feels exciting. I don't get excited over languages or tech stuff anymore, but I do enjoy solving customer problems.

I also make a lot more money now than when I was younger, even adjusting for inflation, and I work about half the hours I used to. I can get more done in less time because I rarely encounter a novel problem (in typical business apps and web sites, anyway). I see the same problems over and over with different clothes on.

</comment><comment><USER3> Yes, but no.

I am no longer able or (more importantly) interested in working 18 hour days. Like you, I now have a family, a house, pets, etc. All of them get time that was previously available for coding (and partying).

I can no longer focus as well as I could, my memory is less good, and my ability to hold concepts in my head is more constrained than it was when I was younger.

OTOH, I know a heap more. In purely technical areas, in the business domain I've ended up in, in working with people, in .. so many areas.

I am absolutely a different value-proposition to an employer than I was 20 years ago. I'm a very different employee -- not better, not worse, but suited to different aspects of the work at hand.

Motivation comes and goes. I don't find it hard to get passionate about things, but I realize now that most things are a marathon, not a sprint. A deep commitment ends up beating a flare of passion that moves on quickly to something else.

Also, burn-out is a thing for me. Not the debilitating kind (although that's totally a thing too) but the more insidious kind where you skim along, dipping in and out of the danger zone, propped up by good challenging projects, awesome co-workers, and vacations; but weighed down by stress, and bad projects, and working with jerks. Figuring out when that's happening, and how to turn things around, took me a while.

All just my views, YMMV, etc.</comment>


The Rise and Fall of Thinking Machines Corporation (1995) - <AUTHOR> http://www.inc.com/magazine/19950915/2622_Printer_Friendly.html

<comment><USER2> This story reminded me of an article which I read on here some time ago: <http://www.longnow.org/views/essays/articles/ArtFeynman.php> . It was fun to contrast the two.

It was interesting how the founders were disenchanted with the idea of having to peddle their solutions to merchants and not scientists. I wonder if we can devise a better system for scientific and academic pursuits. I know my university is potentially laying off CS lecturers, while protecting the nano and biotech departments--posturing for grant and loan money. Much like in the article, it always is unfortunate when politics dooms an otherwise forward- thinking endeavor.

</comment><comment><USER3> The Thinking Machines interview in "Founders At Work" is also an interesting read.</comment>


Why It's So Hard to Make Nuclear Weapons - <AUTHOR> http://www.livescience.com/technology/090922-nuclear-weapons-science.html <comment><USER2> >"But a major problem with uranium bombs, Kristensen said, is the fact that the material happens to be the world's heaviest naturally occurring element (twice as heavy as lead). According to the Union of Concerned Scientists, a nuclear bomb needs about 33 pounds (15 kilograms) of uranium to be operational, a requirement that hinders how far a missile can travel. The bulkiness of uranium also makes it harder to mount the technology to existing missile systems."

This is rubbish. 15 kgs is hardly what keeps a missile from travelling around athe world, it's the tamper, explosives and other assorted hardware (weighing around 1000 kgs for a crude device).

>"Unlike uranium bombs, plutonium bombs are detonated using an 'implosion' method"

More rubbish, uranium bombs can also be implosion designs, indeed most modern ones (primaries in thermonuclear bombs) are.

<comment><USER3> Also very strange to complain about the bulkiness of something that's twice as heavy as lead.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> William Langewiesche --- badass narrative journalist formally of The Atlantic Monthly --- wrote a pretty good book on this topic called _The Atomic Bazaar_.

There are other reasons why it's tricky for non-state actors to acquire workable nuclear weapons, including the fact that the weapons they're likely to get will probably kill them before they can kill us.

On the other hand, remember that when engineers talk about things like managing the window of supercritical mass before the explosion rips the bomb apart, a non-ballistic nuclear device (like something rigged in a shipping container) wouldn't need to be nearly as efficient as a US nuclear weapon to wreak total havoc.

Also, non-state actors aren't going to centrifuge their own enriched uranium; they're going to steal it from the CIS states.

</comment><comment><USER5> > _Spector thinks such a time frame is still reasonable enough for the United > States to dissuade Iran from continuing down that path._

> _"All the really dangerous actions that Iran can do, haven't been done," he > said. "They do not appear to be manufacturing parts or developing designs > for an advanced nuclear weapon. So if the U.S. can strike a deal with them > where both sides can find some satisfaction, it may be enough to end the > crisis."_

This seems hopelessly naive to me. The "crisis" is that we don't trust Iran with nukes. What magic negotiation or concession can we offer in the next 18 months that will get them to stop pursuing nukes that we haven't tried before? They may halt facilities, only to move them underground or fire them up later when it is to their advantage.

It's like the NK situation all over again.

<comment><USER6> _What magic negotiation or concession can we offer in the next 18 months that will get them to stop pursuing nukes that we haven't tried before?_

I think the involvement of China and Russia is the new development that may make the threat of sanctions more meaningful.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> This article is a little silly. First it moves the goal posts from making nuclear weapons to making advanced nuclear weapons (e.g. Plutonium implosion designs), with the justification that only implosion weapons are suitable for ICBM delivery.

However, this analysis is inaccurate, naive, and misleading. Look at the history of nuclear proliferation. South Africa, Israel, India, Pakistan, and North Korea all successfully acquired nuclear weapons production capability, the later 2 fairly recently. All but North Korea and South Africa are sure to have built advanced weapons.

Also, there are 2 parts to the equation implicit in this article: a nuclear warhead and an ICBM capable of carrying it. Unfortunately, it's just as easy to keep working on the 2nd part to make bigger rockets with heavier payload capacity, even if you are never able to figure out how to make an advanced, lightweight warhead. India has the capability to launch a dead-simple gun-type Uranium bomb to anywhere in the world, for example. North Korea's missile program is maybe 10-20 years behind India's. And North Korea has been sharing its missile technology with Iran.

It's naive to think that we're safe merely because the technological road is difficult. At best it's just a matter of time, given concerted effort.

<comment><USER8> South Africa built at least 6 deliverable nuclear weapons (bombing airplanes). If it was tested, no one knows. There were suggestions that SA tested in 1979 (Vela incident).

For what it is worth, South Africa had a fairly good rocket development. The Israeli Jericho rocket was actually a joint Israeli-South African project (the Jericho missiles were tested in SA btw). The RSA rockets would have been able to carry South African nuclear warheads. This (and the whole company Houteq) got dismantled in 1990 though.

South Africa had a different strategy with its nuclear weapons though. Its main purpose of its program was to force the USA to act if the RSA was threatened by the USSR.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> There's a book called "The Bomb in My Garden", about the man responsible for Iraq's nuclear weapons program in the 90's, which get pretty in depth to the length he had to go to in order to get "not very close".

It gets into a lot more detail than this article, so if you're interested I'd recommend checking it out: [http://www.amazon.com/Bomb-My-Garden-Secrets- Mastermind/dp/0...](http://www.amazon.com/Bomb-My-Garden-Secrets- Mastermind/dp/0471679658)

</comment><comment><USER10> What I don't get is why haven't anybody brought one on the black market from some Russian general who is ready to take a lot of black money?

There is got to be plenty of counties who would be prepared to pay a lot of money for such a device, since it guarantees that they will never be attacked by the US.

<comment><USER11> > There is got to be plenty of counties who would be prepared to pay a lot of > money for such a device, since it guarantees that they will never be > attacked by the US.

Not really. You need a device and a delivery mechanism. If either fail you are basically ending your country as an independent entity for the next couple of decades or so and you personally are unlikely to survive long after the failure.

If you have one device and declare it the general public will not believe it (some will, those "in the know" probably will if they can confirm it, but most will think it is tin-hat BS) so you need two devices: one to "test" openly and one to hold in reserve. If you bought a device rather than built it yourself the game enters a cat-and-mouse phase where a large fraction of US resources will be devoted to finding your device and blowing it up, if they succeed then you die shortly after.

If you get the device and just tell the US secretly that you have it then the cat-and-mouse game starts without the need for public posturing on either side and you (and most of the senior leadership of your country) are likely to find yourself on the unpleasant end of soft-power attempts at regime change and not-so-soft attempts that come from a busboy with a silencer.

There is a somewhat fuzzy critical mass of devices and reliable delivery mechanisms that are required before you are a threat with enough credibility to use your nukes as a shield. NK probably has a few nukes, but their artillery along the DMZ and the proximity of same to Soeul is really the only thing keeping Kim Jong Il alive; your hypothetical country has almost no hope of hitting the US and if it is not close to a US ally that its people actually care about then all bets are off. If Sudan suddenly declared that it had bought a nuke then you could probably measure Bashir's future lifespan in weeks...

<comment><USER12> As a deterrent to invasion, use as a super-mine against ground troops would be perfectly adequate and requires no fancy delivery system; just adequate security as to exactly where it was located.

<comment><USER13> so you're going to... nuke yourself? yikes.

<comment><USER12> Nope, you fall back so the nuke is behind the enemy's lines; classic ambush tactics. As an example, the Iraqis could have left a nuke buried behind themselves to knock out substantial US forces, if they had one. I haven't seen anything about it, but how much precautions the military took would tell you how seriously the gov't actually took their own claims about Iraqi nukes.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


CLFSWM - A(nother) Common Lisp FullScreen Window Manager - <AUTHOR> http://common-lisp.net/project/clfswm/

<comment><USER2> CLFSWM is a window manager for X11 written in Common Lisp and inspired by stumpwm and tinywm. Windows and frames are often fullscreen maximized (no decorations). A frame can contains windows or other frames (tree of frames). It's not really a tiling window manager. A more explicit presentation video can be found here <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv0UQR-5ZLs> (and a slower one on common-lisp.net).

</comment><comment><USER3> good alternative to xmonad as it seems! bravo!</comment>


Student receives detention for using Firefox - <AUTHOR> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/15/punished-for-being-awesom_n_538107.html#s79826 <comment><USER2> Sorry, that's a hoax.

The phrase: "he insisted it's just a better browser" is rather too funny to be real, so I searched and found this:

<http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/07/12/17/1721232.shtml>

In my opinion, several detention notes from this article are practically impossible to be true.

See for example #8, which, if true, would be shocking. I can't prove it, but I would bet a lot of money it's a fake.

<comment><AUTHOR> boo, that's disappointing.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> But, more to the point, the teacher did ask the kid to close Firefox and they did not. The teacher may be misinformed, but that does not give the child the right to ignore the teacher.

</comment><comment><USER4> Another example of (a) how schools break the minds of kids, and (b) why America is doomed.

A working class hero is something to be.

</comment><comment><USER5> The teacher should be spanked.</comment>


Free to Freemium: Lessons learned from YouSendIt.com - <AUTHOR> http://andrewchenblog.com/2009/03/09/free-to-freemium-5-lessons-learned-from-yousenditcom/

<comment><USER2> _in reality there probably aren't a lot of 10% lifts left after the first handful_

I am genuinely surprised by how many I find even years after starting my business. (And in where they are, too. All that work on the application, marketing, SEO, etc etc and the thing that pushed me over the day-job line took me all of one Saturday to implement on a lark.)

In regards to cost of customer acquisition: time you spend playing with your conversion funnel does _wonders_ for this number and as your COCA decreases you start to have all sorts of fun options. With a price increase and a few recent lifts in conversion it is now economical for me to advertise on keywords I couldn't before at prices above where my competitors can profitably match. This results in a winner-take-most kind of situation on the AdWords auction -- good news for me (and for Google).

<comment><USER3> >>>And in where they are, too. All that work on the application, marketing, SEO, etc etc and the thing that pushed me over the day-job line took me all of one Saturday to implement on a lark

Can you share details on what was it? Thanks.

<comment><USER2> See here:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=484668>

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I think whether or not you're able to subsist off of ad revenue depends on your situation and goals. A friend of mine can make $900 a week off of CPM revenues. While this wouldn't be enough money to run a 10 or even 5 person startup, it is plenty for him to cover his rent, car payment, and costs of living.

At the same time, I've been talking to a friend who is looking to start up a website that follows more in the footsteps of YouSendIt. We've had several conversations on whether its more valuable to offer a service for free to build market share and then suffer the pains of losing users when you switch to a paid model or charging from the beginning and seeing much slower growth. I appreciated that the article at least addressed the fear of switching to a paid model, but I would have been interested to hear how Kumaran thinks YouSendIt would have done if they would have launched with a freemium model already in place.

</comment><comment><USER5> Did the site crash? I'm getting the "Failed to Connect" message.

</comment><comment><USER6> I am starting to think that ads based websites are just urban legends.

<comment><USER7> If I didn't live in SF, I could live off of absurdlycool.com, which is all ads.

<comment><USER8> thats fantastic, i would have to move somewhere very cheap to live off of filleritem.com</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: You cannot delete comments posts or your account on HN. Concerned? - <AUTHOR> Today I found out after 11 years on this platform there is no way to delete anything you create and post, including the account itself on Hacker News.
This seems strange and ironic considering a lot of our online comments revolve around data privacy, individual rights and the right to be forgotten.
I have deleted Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and reddit accounts my life has dramatically improved. However I am unable to delete my hacker news account... leaving me wondering what is the status of my online data and status on this network. Clearly it is meant to be permanent. I wonder if you knew nothing is deletable here, and if knowing at some point you might want to, you'd regret existing on and supporting a network that will profit or benefit from your content in perpetuity without input from you.
Meanwhile they reserve extravagant rights to flag censor and ban any content you post at their discretion indicating they're fully willing to remove content that they disapprove of.
My opinion: you should be upset that this platform/network is benefiting off you and not allowing you the rights and benefits to delete and control your own content... Much less paying you for the content you provide.
I have emailed email@example.com and they don't respond. <comment><USER2> > Today I found out after 11 years on this platform there is no way to delete > anything you create and post

How did you "find that out"? It's not true. We take care of these requests for people every day.

> I have emailed email@example.com and they don't respond

We always respond. It may take a while though, because the inbox gets brutally piled up. It looks like you emailed 3 days ago. There are 32 ahead of you in the queue. I'm sorry, but there's not much I can do but answer emails in the order they were received. (The actual process is more complicated, but that's what it boils down to.)

<comment><USER3> Why does this require human intervention at all? If I want to delete my comment or account, why do I have to give you my email address in exchange?

<comment><USER2> Allowing wholesale deletion of account histories would gut the threads an account had participated in, which would be unfair both to any commenters who replied, and also to the community, which has an interest in maintaining its archive. We need to balance individual protections against these other concerns. To do that requires an approach with a bit more nuance than clicking a button to wipe everything. Threads are co-creations, after all. pg wrote about this in 2013: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6813226](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6813226).

This has been the approach for a long time. Here's me saying the same thing 4 years ago: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11543284](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11543284). The main thing that has changed since then is that we now have the ability to rename accounts. When people want to delete their accounts, a combination of randomizing the username and/or deleting some posts and/or redacting sensitive information has proved able to satisfy nearly everybody.

<comment><USER4> Points of view are changing. People are being more concerned about their data. I suspect many people here are feeling different about not being able to delete data. Other companies have given users the ability to delete their data. You might want to define a Hacker News policy that addresses it.

I suspect that you'll be addressing the same question over and over as time passes. It won't go away.

<comment><USER2> Things are changing in that we get more of these requests than we used to, but they're not changing in the sense that the current approach shows signs of not working. On the contrary, it works very well. The main problem is that it's not universally known, and so occasionally complaints like the current thread show up, or people tell each other things that aren't actually true. It's on my list to add to the FAQ, which would help, if anyone actually read the FAQ.

Addressing the same questions over and over is much, if not most, of my job. In recent months I've started to link more systematically to past explanations, since the sequences of questions on many topics have started to converge. I intend to compile these into either a v2 FAQ or a series of short essays about moderation topics, or something, which in the future can simply be linked to. The question of account deletion will certainly be in there.

<comment><USER5> Adding it the FAQ would be awesome.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I think it's pretty sad that they don't warn you when signing up. And I think it's pretty lousy that they won't let you delete your account. I had an account that got into 4-digit karma before I realized I couldn't delete it. I was younger and wrote some stuff I'd love to get rid of. I've emailed the guys who run HN about it several times and every time it's the same lame excuse.

<comment><USER2> When did you email us and what did we say? This does not sound at all like the email conversations we have with users.

If someone emails "I was younger and wrote some stuff I'd love to get rid of", the obvious response is: "Happy to help! What are the links? We may not be able to delete the posts altogether (it depends on whether they got replies, and how many) but there's nearly always something we can do, and we don't want anyone to get in trouble from anything they posted to HN." I've written that kind of thing so many times I'll probably start mumbling it in my sleep soon.

<comment><USER6> I'll admit I'm impressed you responded to my comment! The last time I tried was a few years ago.

I would have to go back to my inbox to find your response but I remember being pretty disappointed. I don't think you wrote anything that was specifically unkind but I remember being struck by the response. I thought "wow, these guys really don't care if someone wants to delete or hide their account." It is completely possible I caught you on a bad day.

I'll try again.

<comment><USER2> Please do! I'd love to see the old emails, too, because maybe there's something to learn about how to respond better. Or maybe we already learned it in subsequent years.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> You should be allowed to delete your own comments for alot of reasons.

In particular, if you decide that a comment you made was overly negative, or offensive or has some other issue, then it is good for the quality of discussion that you be able to take the action and remove it. You are allowed to do this for a short time period after creating it, I think you should permanently be allowed to delete it.

I know HN does not like comments to be deleted because it breaks the historical value, but I think people, privacy, quality of discussion and individual personal right to curate your own online presence are more important than HN's right to maintain historical integrity. HN doesn't see it that way as far as I understand but hey, it's their site. Don't like it, don't comment.

<comment><USER8> You can delete comments within a time limit.

<comment><USER9> 2 hours, I think -- which is essentially nothing.

<comment><USER2> I wrote about this here [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23623839](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23623839). If there's something that remains unaddressed, let me know.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I found this out maybe 15% into my HN career. I've emailed in the past to have specific posts removed and received a timely response doing so.

I didn't request a blanket delete however. I do understand the desire for posterity, and generally very much appreciate the lack of [deleted] a la reddit.

It's not hard to notice the lack of delete: it's somewhat well known edit windows close; then the delete window soon after. Maybe upfront documentation would be welcome. I imagine many people like us didn't think of it until after wanting to delete something.

I'd be very open to removing usernames from posts (they bear little in >99% of cases anyway). I'm wary of having entire posts be easily deleted, especially considering replies. My country does have a right to be forgotten (Canada), so I assume I could easily email or snail mail to have my profiles wiped. I wouldn't exercise this, though perhaps I'd consider a disassociation in the future.

<comment><USER11> How does one's right to be forgotten apply when there's no true link to one's identity? Does it apply to pseudonyms, as well?

I've long wished for such laws to pass in the US, but there are far too many hands in too many cookie pots paying too many Senators for that to happen, I fear.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> > Today I found out after 11 years on this platform there is no way to delete > anything you create and post

> This seems strange and ironic considering a lot of our online comments > revolve around data privacy

I agree it seems strange this just now occurred to you after 11 years.

> I have deleted Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and reddit accounts my life has > dramatically improved

Why is that, exactly? Because you waste less of your time on them, or because nobody has your data from those services? If it's the later, how do you calculate value from something you can't observe?

> Meanwhile they reserve extravagant rights to flag censor and ban any content > you post

Yeah, using a site that someone else wrote and pays for running the servers doesn't give you magical rights on the service. A fun fact is that free speech is frequently misinterpreted as the ability to say anything anywhere, but it's not that at all.

> My opinion: you should be upset that this platform/network is benefiting off > you

That's not an opinion, it's telling people what to think which seems somewhat in vogue recently.

<comment><USER8> "if I can't spew my opinion with your bandwidth I'm oppression"

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> From dang (mod), Mar 2019:

> We delete comments for people nearly every day. It's true that we don't > allow wholesale deletion of account histories, because that would gut the > threads the account had participated in. But we also don't want anyone to > get in trouble from anything they posted to HN...

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19459744](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19459744)

<comment><USER14> I would be happy if they allowed usernames to be changed or accounts to be deleted where the username is just changed to _deleted_ or something and the comment stays.

<comment><USER15> If you have been careful all along, this would help. But it wouldn't solve the problem where someone has inadvertently added some personal information or hints/links to who they are or where they are. People may also not remember where they posted what that links back to them.

<comment><USER2> We're always happy to delete or redact identifying information. We don't want anyone to get in trouble from anything they posted to HN. We don't do it by allowing wholesale deletion of account histories, because that would gut the threads the account had participated in, which would be unfair to any commenters who replied, as well as to readers and to the community.

That doesn't mean we don't care about individual users' needs for protection—we care a lot about it, and help people with these requests every day. We just have to do so with sharper tools, and we have a big bag of tricks for taking care of these things. They include renaming accounts, retroactively assigning comments to throwaway accounts, deleting specific posts (especially if they don't have replies), redacting specific info from posts, and more.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I cut my teeth on Usenet, mailing lists, and IRC - on all of which the idea of unsaying something you said was a self-evident absurdity.

So no, I don't have a problem with it here either.

If I feel badly enough about something I've said in the past, I can always follow up that I've changed my mind / disagree with my past argument and the reasons why.

<comment><USER17> > I've said in the past, I can always follow up that I've changed my mind / > disagree with my past argument and the reasons why.

Yes, that's the rational way. However, with today's SJW and Twitter mobs, you don't know what someone might dig up in order to make your life hard going forward.

<comment> blaser-waffle Or if the pendulum will swing the other way, and the Mega-Nazis who will be in charge in the future will use bots to search twitter for SJW posts.

Just cuz you're in lock-step with the zietgiest now doesn't mean you will be in the future.

See also: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window)

<comment><USER18> Mega Nazis, if they should come to exist, are going to seek to hunt people down whether or not anti-Nazis have done so first.

If you are concerned about Mega Nazis, hoping you can convince them to be tolerant Mega Nazis by the example of tolerant anti-Nazis is...not likely to be an effective approach.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Ten years ago one of the most prolific and valuable participants of lesswrong.com used a script to delete all his writings from the site. A few days or weeks later, he reconsidered and gave the site permission to restore them, explaining that he was angry when he ran the script, but as you might expect if you've spent time adminning a computer, no one wanted to spend the considerable technical effort required to effect a restoration. Since then I have experienced non-negligible amounts of pain after following one of my bookmarks or a search-engine hit only to end up at a stub that was one of his former posts or comments.

>you should be upset that this platform/network is . . . not allowing you the rights and benefits to delete and control your own content.

 _I_ would be upset if a significant fraction of the more than 558 bookmarks into news.ycombinator.com I have accumulated over the past 10 years stopped working because of a change in HN that caused a large increase in the rate of deletion of old comments. In particular, I worry about users who would use a script to mass-delete all of their comments here. (I arrived at the figure of 558 by actual counting: in a directory containing only bookmarks manually created by me, I grepped for "news.ycombinator.com" and for an abbreviation for HN that I use when I'm too lazy to copy and paste the url.)

The fact that it is hard or impossible for a prolific contributor to mass- delete his contributions is a significant part of the reason I chose spend as much of time as I have reading here -- and _searching_ here: with Google Search becoming increasingly useless, an increasing fraction of my searches are searches of HN using Algolia.

I am of course okay with the site's starting displaying a strongly worded warning on the sign-up page.

ADDED. 13.3% of my searches of the internet since the start of this year have been searches of HN using Algolia. One painfully precise detail: I am counting only those of my searches that originated (in code I wrote) in Emacs, but that is the majority of my searches, and I have no reason to believe that they materially differ from the rest of the searches (which originated by my typing into the location bar of my browser).

</comment><comment><USER20> > I have deleted Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and reddit accounts my life has > dramatically improved.

How would your life be better if you were able to delete your account here as opposed simply not ever using it again?

> I wonder if you knew nothing is deletable here

That's not entirely true, but it is true that you can't just bulk delete every comment you made - and thankfully so, because reading discussions with bunch of deleted comments that have replies would make this place a lot worse.

</comment><comment><USER21> While I'm pro right to be forgotten, and do believe HN should allow an account delete.

But HN's ethos is to inspire discussion and readability of it. Lack of a delete seems to be by design so that conversations are always readable.

You can see the spirit of that in their guidelines[0] such as "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive".

You can further see that in the design in how they handle deletes [1], where once "archived" things are permanent

[0] [https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

[1] [https://github.com/minimaxir/hacker-news- undocumented#editde...](https://github.com/minimaxir/hacker-news- undocumented#editdelete-time-limits)

<comment><USER22> @dang A suggestion that occurs to me based on this would be deleting accounts but not comments. Essentially all comments remain but are attributed to "anon_1" or something like that.

<comment><USER2> We do that by randomizing account names. We have other tricks too—for example, sometimes people are just concerned about their comments in one thread, and we can snap those off and reassign them to a random username, which lets them keep their primary account.

We wouldn't reassign every anonymized account the same username, though, because that would make discussions hard to follow when there is more than one such account in the thread. That's especially important because the number of these requests builds up over time, and users never ask for their accounts to be renamed back (though one did!), so such an approach would act as a slow erosion in the threads.

<comment><USER23> And people say HN isn't making new features...you guys have the coolest mod techniques around.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> So, they allow changing your handle to a random string, they delete selected posts if they don't break big threads, and they redact select info (like PII) from your posts, all of which upon request, and on a case-by-case basis.

To me, it seems reasonable enough actually, although the process could have less friction, i.e., instead of requiring an email conversation, just have buttons for edit/delete after their window has passed that the mods then review and get back to you for further clarifications or simply allow your edit/delete request.

</comment><comment><USER25> Not really. Most internet forums stopped you deleting comments, posts or your account iun general. In 99% of ones I've come across, there's a time limit on editing a post, normal members don't have the right to delete their content, and accounts can't be removed.

And to be honest, I don't expect any different. What do you expect to happen if someone deletes their post on a site like this? If it's standalone I guess it'd be fine, but if there are replies (or it's the whole thread), then what? Do you remove a whole bunch of random people's replies as well? What if those people don't want their content removed but you do?

Forums are very much a collaborative effort, not an individual one, and I feel the interests of the community outweigh that of any one member here.

</comment><comment><USER26> You can mail the mods to "anonymize" your account by changing the username to a random-ish string.

I still suspect that HN is not compliant with CCPA (the Californian GDPR) though, specifically that you can "request a business to delete any personal information about a consumer collected from that consumer".

<comment><USER8> CCPA applies to CA orgs with a massive bottom line. HN assuredly doesn't fall within CCPA's crosshairs.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> AFAIK you're not able to delete your stack overflow / stack exchange posts either. The site basically says anything you post is CC-BY-SA 4.0 so once you post it it's effectively available for everyone forever.

You can delete your account but your posts will not disappear. Maybe HN should add the same terms so you know your posts can't be deleted.

As for deleting your account that's annoying. My solution for at least not using an account is setting minaway to 9999999999 and the turning on noprocrast. suddenly my account is unusable.

Maybe a simple solution for HN is they could follow S.E. and when you delete your account they just change the username to user-<number>

</comment><comment><USER28> Agreed. I should be able to remove comments and posts ive made. Pretty weak for a site that primarily caters to devs

<comment><USER29> You're missing the point of HN

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> The main reason I support allowing deletion of content is that for individuals in abusive households or citizens of certain governments, if they posted something in the past that was dangerous to their health or life, they should be able to delete it to ensure they are not harmed by a parent or spouse who may be in a position of power over them and may be abusing them, or in the case of a government it may target them for something they said in the past.

<comment><USER2> We've helped many such users, and I don't believe that anyone who has contacted us in such a situation has ever been unhappy with the result. It is true that they have to contact us, which isn't great, but I don't know of a better way.

<comment><USER30> perhaps it would be a good idea to make it more visible / obvious to people that they would have that option? many of the people who are in vulnerable situations, may already be feeling powerless or have learned helplessness and may not even think to reach out via email. that seems like something someone who is normally quite empowered might think to try, but if one thinks of large internet companies like google or facebook, the idea of emailing to get a human being to help you seems impossible so people might not even think to try with HN in this age of algorithmic support.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I'm with you on this, and don't like the fact that delete windows for comments and posts is quite short and that accounts (along with content) cannot be deleted. This is why I never put any personal or demographic details in my comments here.

HN is also not a platform that changes much over long periods of time (in UI, UX or policies). So don't keep your hopes up on this one being dealt with as you'd like it to be. HN the platform does not keep up with the times as much as you'd expect it to be for a platform with deep pockets behind it (don't bring up Facebook in comparison; that's a downright malicious platform). "The right to be forgotten" is a stranger here.

I've seen in past discussions that HN wants to preserve conversations and doesn't want to delete content, especially if it means making threads meaningless. Imagine deleting a reply to a comment based on a request that in turn has replies from others beneath it. The people who posted those replies may not want their content to be deleted. I've seen platforms deal with this in different ways. Facebook deals with it by removing the entire comment thread or subthread when the top comment is deleted. Reddit deals with it by removing only that specific comment (marking it as deleted) and leaving replies dangling without any context.

The other side of the coin is that HN is not a platform you or I own. So the platform is well within its rights (up to legal limits) to do anything with your content.

People must really understand that anything they put on the web is susceptible to stay forever in corners they may not even be aware of. The content you post may also be mirrored on the Internet Archive with time based snapshots without your knowledge. The Internet Archive doesn't have an easy way to request for deletion (or even exclusion from being archived). If you send emails, sometimes you get asked to provide more proof (like invoices for domain registrations) even after you've provided evidence of ownership through other means (without exposing personal information). Is the Internet Archive wrong to copy content and make it difficult (or impossible) to remove it from its databases? The answer depends on who you ask. You'd also find people who have different views on how it ought to be on HN vs. Internet Archive.

What people and platforms cannot seem to agree on is what content truly belongs to you in a way you can edit, delete and modify it as you please and have that be the only version that everyone else sees.

<comment><USER31> The typical way to preserve content upon account deletion is just to remove the displayed username from the posts, but keep the content. I don't see why that couldn't apply here also.

<comment><USER15> The content itself might have specific signals or links to who that person is. Those cases also deserve to be covered during deletion. For the sake of being complete, even the content must be allowed to be deleted.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> My inability to remember everything I've posted on this account over the years makes me consider it unsafe to tie to my real identity.

I've grown over the years. Since I can't review and delete anything that no longer reflects who I am now, I've written HN off as a place to talk about anything that might identify me.

<comment><USER2> If this is something that would make a difference to you, you're welcome to email email@example.com. We can rename accounts, and we can delete or redact sensitive info, including historical stuff that people are worried about. We just need to do it in a more precise way than nuking entire histories.

<comment><USER32> I appreciate that, but it goes so far against the self-service nature of every other web site that it feels bizarre. It's an activity that I've never associated with anything but full privacy.

If I knew of a specific recent thing I needed to delete and it was important, then yes I'd take you up on that.

But if I have a set of comments in my history that I just don't want there anymore, the last thing I want to do is email them to another person. It feels weird enough to keep me from embarking on the project to sanitize my account. It doesn't even feel like my account. Lacking freedom and control makes it feel like it could only ever be a throwaway.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> I too would be interested in a way to delete comments or accounts.

</comment><comment><USER34> I am not very versed in those legal matters but I imagine there is a whole spectrum between Facebook (where all your content is personal and you should be able to take it out as needed) and Stack Overflow or Wikipedia (where taking out answered questions or articles when an author wants it doesn't make sense). I wonder how this is regulated, especially in regions with "strong" right to be forgotten e.g. Europe.

More than once I have stumbled on deleted Reddit comments that looked to have something I was looking for. Maybe it's good that the right type of content is posted in places with the right kind of deletion rules, but this should definitely be advertised clearly (so people don't start Q/A type subreddits, and conversely don't post personal info on HN).

</comment><comment><USER29> Im okay with that. One should assume a transparent community and remove any hints to the real identity just in case. One can easily create a separate email address for HN or just use one for this type of semi anonymous identity on internet: HN, reddit, etc

</comment><comment><USER35> I think you should be able to unlink comments from your account, but I don't support a blanket delete. Any old reddit thread is basically unreadable from auto-deleted comments.

</comment><comment><USER36> It definitely should be possible to at least anonymize some comments (disconnect from the main account). Norms are changing so fast an innocent joke made in 2015 could be enough to get someone cancelled, and the retroactive norms are only getting stricter (I wonder what's acceptable today that's going to be enough to cancel people in 2025?).

I imagine many people who posted under their real identity, or revealed it, are now regretting it for this reason.

</comment><comment><USER37> HN should allow you to delete accounts at the very least.

<comment><USER29> That but allow the history/comments?

If you no longer wish to access your account set up a new autogenerated password then forget it.

<comment><USER38> Usernames themselves can be linked and associated around the web, and they chain all the posted comments to a single identity. Changing to [deleted] at the very least provides better protection.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> The guidelines should be more visible when signing up but HN recommends anonymous/throwaway if you have something sensitive to post.

Note that they usually have more than enough context to still link your accounts and will ban both if they want to, but that's their prerogative. Be careful with who you trust and what you put online, that's the best advice for everything.

</comment><comment><USER29> Keep private and divulging information off this site. Also one can create a throwaway for any info they dont want associated to their main accounts. Eg bragging about stupid things they do or did at work, bragging about slacking, about being lazy at work, about things that we normally shy away for saying outloud IRL

</comment><comment><USER39> I think I understand HN's philosophy (ie: this is the web; you can never _really_ delete anything), but there are a few of my old comments I wish I could hide. Does there exist no compromise that is simpler than emailing HN, yet onerous enough to prevent HN from becoming a shifting pile of sand?

</comment><comment><USER40> It does seem odd you can't delete your own content, but beyond that, I don't think any of our comments are worth paying for. Comments on HN feel a bit like recorded discourse in a techie Roman Forum. No one invites you to participate but people will remember what you say

</comment><comment><USER38> Idea: Add a "post anonymously" option for comments. HN can dynamically generate a new account for each thread so all of your comments are linked to the same identity for the same story. This account can then be accessed through a special link shown only once.

<comment><USER23> There's no limit to throwaways, and recently, the Internet has decided that "Anonymously" means "free to be a dickhead".

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> Just adding my advocacy for a delete option. Hacker news has been around for long enough, it's only reasonable that you give the content creators control over that content. Did i even sign a TOS back then?

<comment><USER2> The problem is that the content is a co-creation. Comments aren't atoms, they're nodes in a tree that only make sense in connection with other comments. A reasonable deletion policy needs to fit this domain, and that makes it more complicated than "these are my posts and I'm taking them back and going home". It's not that we don't care about users or don't want to treat them fairly; not at all, and we go to great lengths to help.

pg wrote about this here: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6813226](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6813226). I wrote more at [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23623717](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23623717) and elsewhere in this thread.

<comment><USER41> While I agree that it breaks the conversation around others posts by allowing deletion, at the end of the day this isn't unique to HN. If i delete myself on Facebook, i delete myself, why does HN feel it's special in that it deserves to maintain conversation integrity?

</comment></comment></comment><comment> Seb-C I am also upset and concerned that I cannot remove the posts I want. Having to send to someone the content you don't want people to know anymore is wrong and a huge psychological barrier.

<comment><USER2> I can understand why that's upsetting and would be open to a better way. If you read my other posts in this thread, and have a better idea of how to achieve the balance I've written about, i.e. a way of achieving that balance that would lower the psychological barrier and not involve doing wrong, I'd like to know what it is.

<comment> Seb-C Thanks for your answer.

If the concern is about threads, why not at least allow deletion of comments that does not have answers?

I think in many cases instead of deleting, it would be nice to anonymize a comment, so it does not show the user name and does not show in the comments list of a profile either.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> Imagine some AI process reads all your comments and re-builds your digital identity on the other end. As long as it is not tied to your real identity you're okay

</comment><comment><USER42> This has just disappeared of the front page!! Wow ....

<comment><USER43> Things disappear off the front page all the time. When they do so suddenly it's usually because they tripped the flamewar detector, which notices heated comment threads and pulls the post from the front page to avoid adding more fuel to the fire. (The exact criteria are undisclosed, but afaik it looks at things like comments per minute and comment-to-upvote ratios.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER44> Odd you used to be able to delete comments.

<comment><USER21> You can assuming you do it within their timelimits: [https://github.com/minimaxir/hacker-news- undocumented#editde...](https://github.com/minimaxir/hacker-news- undocumented#editdelete-time-limits)

<comment><USER44> Ah, okay. That is interesting, I don't suppose anyone has looked at the arc source?

<comment><USER38> To find what?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER45> I'm not sure why you would put any information about yourself on a public forum and expect it to not be permanent. Do people actually have that assumption? I fully believe that everything said here and anywhere else on the internet is being slurped up by some random guy/org's bots.

That's not paranoia btw, believing otherwise would be incredibly naive. So no, I am not upset and I don't think I should be upset. I think you are the one with unrealistic expectations. If it's on the internet it is permanent, gdpr be damned.

</comment><comment><USER46> Is there a publicly available link as to what PII is collected/logged/stored by HN and for how long?

<comment><USER8> HN is not a scoped platform with a compliance control on PII.

</comment></comment><comment><USER47> My solution is to get a new account every now and then

</comment><comment><USER48> Wouldn't this be illegal for EU residents due to GDPR?

though even if they respond emails and help you I'm pretty sure they break EU laws without informing you about rules in advance with clear information about DPO, data processor/controller etc

</comment><comment><USER49> Wouldn't this be a major problem for GDPR compliance?

<comment><USER21> I am not a lawyer, but GDPR compliance looks like it doesn't quite apply due to not necessarily being targeted at European citizens [https://gdpr.eu/companies-outside-of-europe/](https://gdpr.eu/companies- outside-of-europe/)

<comment><USER49> I haven't dove into it since the initial panic around how far it would reach, and the work I've done at work to accommodate it at work, but my understanding was that just by providing the service to EU citizens (i.e. you haven't IP banned the entire euro region) you are liable to face penalties. I'm probably just talking about of my ass though. IANAL

<comment><USER23> No Euro presence, good luck enforcing.

<comment><USER49> Unless you happen to travel within the EU, or live in a country that has an extradition treaty with EU members, right?

<comment><USER23> GDPR is extradition worthy to the US? Doubt it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER50> There's a lot of bad shit going on in the world. I really don't have room to care about this.

</comment><comment><USER51> Yes, this bothers me too.

HN should allow this for a small fee as a compromise between the conflicting interests of comment authors and readers. The fee would limit the number of [deleted] comments but when someone really wants to have their comments removed, they would be able to.

<comment><USER52> that's just a lot of words to say HN should hold data as ransom

</comment></comment><comment><USER53> If you see this post before the inbound bots come and give it a -4 downvote, M5 Hosting controls this.

It's a front company. They have something like 30 names, only 7 employees who can be inferred every really worked at the company + are real humans.

Also, try finding the verified account on Twitter for Hacker News. You can't :)

The idea that this platform, full of comments and small stories from some of the best sysadmins in the world, it not a high value target...is somewhat naive.

<comment><USER2> This is the fourth time you've brought this up, and it's frankly starting to get weird. I answered this in detail a few days ago: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23554341](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23554341) — to the extent that it's possible to answer anything so ill-specified.

<comment><USER53> Again, I just saw your reply from earlier, after I made this post. I am reading and thinking now. I've also promised to make no further comments, except maybe reasonable questions in a limited follow up, and then drop it.

That being said, if you didn't see my earlier reply to your earlier comment, no worries as I definitely made that oversight previously myself.

Look I think in technology today, we should take suspicion as a positive trait (which it most certainly isn't always). Asking questions of who controls what, who is in charge, what is that person like/what can we assume their motivations are, is to be applauded. That being said, I know this must stress you out only more on top of all the work you do. That is extremely fair and tbh I would be resentful.

I could be wrong about all this. But even if I am, I ask that you imagine the positive consequences. Perhaps others elsewhere will question suspicious things they have seen. Hopefully they will be respectful and seek a path of investigation that while willing to "blame and shame", which does sometimes happen, use those powers sparingly, and only with some level of consensus.

EDIT: Also just upvoted you as show of good faith :)</comment></comment></comment>