Want Breakthrough Ideas? First, Listen To The Freaks And Geeks  - <AUTHOR> http://www.fastcodesign.com/1669452/want-breakthrough-ideas-first-listen-to-the-freaks-and-geeks

<comment><AUTHOR> A smart take on alternative consumer research. As the author points out, researching with normals almost killed the Walkman. I wonder: Does anyone know other companies that do this?</comment>


Samsung claims Apple patent verdict tainted by jury foreman - <AUTHOR> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57524935-37/samsung-claims-apple-patent-verdict-tainted-by-jury-foreman/

<comment><USER2> So the question now is, when and how did the lawyer find out about Hogan's failure to disclose...

From Groklaw:

"Were you wondering how Samsung found out about the lawsuit that Hogan failed to mention in voir dire, the litigation between Seagate and Hogan that Samsung dug up? Apple was, as I'll show you.

You wouldn't believe it if it was in a movie script. The lawyer who sued Mr. Hogan on behalf of Seagate back in 1993 is now married to a partner at Quinn Emanuel, the lawyers for Samsung."

<comment><USER3> I couldn't give you a comprehensive list of my wife's acquaintances from 20 years ago. I could name a few. But sometimes coincidences are just coincidental.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> This Hogan fellow just keeps getting better and better.

<comment><USER5> For Samsung.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> This is a great first step, but it's going to be a long, hard battle from here on out. Any American jury is going to be biased against a foreign company when it comes to charges like this, one of the reasons why I feel that it should have been tried by judges, particularly considering the complex and technical nature of the subject matter.

<comment><USER7> _Any American jury is going to be biased against a foreign company_

I'm not sure if this is true. I don't think most American's see Apple as an Apple Pie type of American company. I could be wrong, but I have never heard anyone say, I bought an iPad because it is an American product.

I say this as someone who is probably more supportive of American companies and not really supportive of Apple at all, so maybe I have my own bias, but I don't think so.

<comment><USER8> Mostly on the radio I hear about Apple and Chinese labor, so they seem like a multinational company more than an American company even though they do "command and control" from the US.

Also they don't employ a huge number of Americans compared to other large companies (and excluding retail they remain pretty small, esp. compared to Microsoft). Maybe the valley is different too, because a large proportion of the population are immigrants.

<comment><USER9> More data: they employ many Americans, and the campus is filled with them (of all sorts of ancestries, not exclusively imigrants from India or China). According to <http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=aapl> they employ a number of people adequate to sustain a revenue/employee of $2.351 million/year. The factories are not Apple's, but are contracted manufacturers, the same used by many others (Dell, etc).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> So folks who have been wondering since day one after the trial what Samsung was going to do, this seems to be the answer. Hard to prove that a jury tampered with itself, but if they can construct a plausible grudge motive, perhaps the judge will see it there way.

<comment><USER11> Actually it's not that hard in this case since it's not 'jury tampering' in this case - merely 'juror misconduct'. They don't need to show motive even, just that it happened.

The jury is not supposed to deliberate on matters of law - they are supposed to weigh the evidence and deliberate on the specific questions they have and the instructions they have. [added] What Juror's should/not do -- "was applying his experience to question the law, not using his experience to determine the facts"

For instance, they had specific instructions on what was patentable as a design patent, and what constituted 'prior art'. The jury cannot use a different definition of 'prior art' or deliberate on the definition of 'prior art', or use their previous legal experience to expand or explain 'prior art'. That would be considered jury misconduct.

This is why the jury is asked whether they can set aside their previous experience and deliberate using only the evidence and instructions for this case. Why is this necessary? Because matters of law could and do change, and are not for the jury to take a call on. [Not talking about jury nullification here].

<comment><USER12> "was _applying his experience to question the law_ , not using his experience to determine the facts"

If successful, this line of reasoning will have consequences for the doctrine of jury nullification.

<comment><USER13> Unless I am mistaken, the laws that make jury nullification possible are something that really only works one way. A jury can refuse to find someone guilty, despite all evidence for whatever reason they wish, but I don't think the opposite is true. An inbalance between 'guilty' and 'innocent' is built into the system, for example you can appeal a guilty verdict, but cannot appeal an innocent verdict.

At least I _hope_ my understanding is correct...

<comment><USER14> Nullification is not tied to double jeopardy, but the _method_ by which it can happen is far more restricted in jurisdictions where a not guilty verdict can be appealed, as it requires that the jury is either entirely in agreement (nobody talks about the nullification) or that the issue is simply not brought up by jurors who wish to nullify just refuses to budge.

<comment><USER13> In what jurisdictions can a not guilty verdict be appealed? Am I understanding correctly that the fact that nullification occurred would be grounds for an appeal in those jurisdictions?

My thought here is that in jurisdictions where jury nullification is normally possible and effective, it is only really effective if they give a not guilty verdict. A guilty verdict, given "just because" (or whatever), could be overturned in those jurisdictions, possibly even immediately by the judge.

<comment><USER14> (this wall of text brought to you by procrastination)

Canada allows appealing not guilty verdicts.

Also Norway, which is the system I know best, as do a substantial number of other European states, including e.g. Germany, France.

Norway (and most other European countries) do have forms of double jeopardy protection, but in Norway as in many other European countries as well as Canada, it does not attach until the case has been fully litigated and all appeals exhausted. Instead it prevents the government from bringing the case again once the case is _final_.

In Norway, the system has three levels. In criminal cases the lower court usually hear cases with a panel of three co-judges, two of which are lay persons selected from the jury pool. They deliberate together, and so nullification is effectively impossible at this stage as the professional judge can set aside a majority decision by the two lay judges voting together if their decision is a clear misapplication of the law. This right is used, but not frequently, given that the professional judge obviously in this system has ample opportunity to discuss the issue with the lay judges.

The higher court (lagmannsretten) will in more serious cases have three professional judges and a separate jury like in the US. In this case, nullification would be possible, but if the three professional judges unanimously believe that the evidence clearly indicates guilt, they can still set aside the jury decision. If they set it aside, the case is then retried at the same level without a jury, but with lay judges as in tingretten.

The last step is the supreme court, which only hears matters of law in the case of criminal cases, so in criminal cases an acquittal on matters of fact after (at worst) a second trial in lagmannsretten is almost certain to stand. As in the US, once the supreme court has either heard a case or refused to hear it (or neither side has appealed to the supreme court), the case is final. This is the point where double jeopardy attaches in Norway (there may be some very narrow exceptions, I'm not sure).

> Am I understanding correctly that the fact that nullification occurred would > be grounds for an appeal in those jurisdictions?

I'm not a lawyer, but in general my understanding is that nullification _if proven_ would be grounds for appeal in any situation where an appeal is allowed pretty much everywhere, including in the US in civil cases.

This is also presumably the reason why we rarely hear about nullification outside the context of US criminal trials, because if/when it occurs it would need to be subtle and nobody on such a jury could really talk about it afterwards.

The problem in bringing an appeal in such cases is that given that the jury deliberations are private, substantiating appeals on such grounds can be extremely hard.

E.g. in the Apple vs. Samsung case a lot of Samsungs allegation of jury misconduct hinges on the fact that the foreman and at least one other juror (were there more?) have kept giving interviews and saying more and more things about the deliberations that are seemingly at odds with the instructions.

> My thought here is that in jurisdictions where jury nullification is > normally possible and effective, it is only really effective if they give a > not guilty verdict. A guilty verdict, given "just because" (or whatever), > could be overturned in those jurisdictions, possibly even immediately by the > judge.

You're right, it is vastly more powerful when the decision can't be appealed because they have the freedom to totally ignore evidence and instructions.

It can still happen in other situations, but it needs to at least be nominally possible to arrive at their decision while staying within the jury instructions which of course often will remove the opportunity to nullify in the type of clear-cut cases where nullification is most effectively used as a protest against unjust laws.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Given the amount of money that goes into Juror Analysis in huge cases like this, is it possible Samsung knew about this all along and was keeping as an ace up their sleeve in case they lost?

<comment><USER16> I believe that is entirely possible, legal, and wise.

<comment><USER14> It might be legal, but if found out it would almost certainly get their motion denied, which is why Apple aggressively pursued a statement from Samsung about whether or not they knew. As a result, Samsung has made a declaration they did not know, and so at this point if it later turns out they did now, they're in trouble.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Another article with some details of his case with Seagate

([http://newsandinsight.thomsonreuters.com/Legal/News/ViewNews...](http://newsandinsight.thomsonreuters.com/Legal/News/ViewNews.aspx?id=57594))

<comment><USER18> Groklaw's take on this <http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20121002201632770>

<comment><USER19> Groklaw coverage is a convenient place for the latest links, but their commentary is beyond biased. They attempt to color what you're about to read.

Here's a particularly obvious example:

Commentary:

 _Hogan did not mention the case brought against him by Seagate in voir dire, significantly enough, even though he was specifically asked by the judge, as were all the prospective jurors, to list all cases any of them was ever involved in as a witness or a party. Hogan told Reuters (see 2012 [PDF]) that he wasn't asked about all cases. But he was, as you can see for yourself in the transcript [PDF] of the voir dire._

No, Hogan was _not_ "specifically asked ... to list all cases" according either Samsung's filing or the linked transcript.

At least Samsung's filing gets it right:

 _Asked by the Court whether "you or a family member or someone very close to you [has] ever been involved in a lawsuit, either as a plaintiff, a defendant, or as a witness?" he disclosed one such lawsuit but failed to disclose two others..._

Sorry, Groklaw, Hogan was not "specifically" asked to "list all" cases. The actual question, including sentences before and after for context (all caps in transcript):

 _LET'S CONTINUE WITH THE QUESTIONS. THE NEXT QUESTION IS, HAVE YOU OR A FAMILY MEMBER OR SOMEONE VERY CLOSE TO YOU EVER BEEN INVOLVED IN A LAWSUIT, EITHER AS A PLAINTIFF, A DEFENDANT, OR AS A WITNESS? LET'S SEE. ON THE FIRST ROW, WHO WOULD RAISE THEIR HAND TO THAT QUESTION? ALL RIGHT. LET'S GO TO MR. HOGAN._

The question "specifically" asks about the singular, "a lawsuit". Note the phrase "who would raise their hand to that?" It's a _binary_ question.

At the time of the question, it wasn't about patents, it was to determine if jurors have encountered the court system as a participant, yes or no. The followup questions did drill into the nature of the case Hogan mentioned, but the judge didn't follow up further because that wasn't the purpose of the original question.

Skipping down in the transcript a bit, the judge _tells us_ the purpose of the "have you been involved in a lawsuit" question:

 _WE'LL TALK FURTHER ABOUT WHO'S BEEN ON JURY DUTY, BUT THERE ARE DEFINITELY DIFFERENT, YOU KNOW, STANDARDS OF PROOF IN DIFFERENT CASES, AND I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE -- YOU ALL HAD CIVIL CASES, SO I WOULD ASSUME THAT YOU ALSO HAD, YOU KNOW, PREPONDERANCE OF THE EVIDENCE. DOES THAT SOUND FAMILIAR?_

This makes it clear the question wasn't how many cases the juror was involved in, but whether the juror had been exposed to concepts around rule of law in different types of cases. The judge continues:

 _AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THIS A LITTLE BIT LATER ON, BUT IN DIFFERENT TYPES OF CASES, THERE MAY BE DIFFERENT STANDARDS OF PROOF, AND ALSO THE LAW MAY HAVE CHANGED SINCE WHENEVER YOU WERE A LITIGANT. SO I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT BOTH MR. HOGAN, AND MS. ROUGIERI, THAT YOU WOULD APPLY THE LAW AS I INSTRUCT YOU AND NOT BASED ON YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE LAW BASED ON YOUR OWN CASES._

So no, Hogan was responsive and accurate and the question was not asking for an itemized list of cases. It was to set up the point about standards of proof and judicial instructions.

<comment><USER20> I find it amazing you would write a 557 word reply and not include the following critical statement from the court that completely refutes your entire point about the court's intention in asking that question, and fully supports Samsung's argument:

 _THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. ANYTHING ABOUT THAT EXPERIENCE THAT WOULD AFFECT YOUR ABILITY TO BE FAIR AND IMPARTIAL TO BOTH SIDES IN THIS CASE?_ [1, p149:14]

This was a DIRECT question to Hogan. He _and_ his wife both filed for bankruptcy as a result of Seagate's 1993 _countersuit_ and nearly lost his house [2]. It's hardly a stretch of the imagination to wonder if he bears a grudge against Seagate and its currently majority shareholder, Samsung. If I were the judge I'd be furious.

[1] [http://newsandinsight.thomsonreuters.com/uploadedFiles/Reute...](http://newsandinsight.thomsonreuters.com/uploadedFiles/Reuters_Content/2012/09_-_September/samsung --completejurorvoirdire.pdf)

[2] [http://newsandinsight.thomsonreuters.com/Legal/News/ViewNews...](http://newsandinsight.thomsonreuters.com/Legal/News/ViewNews.aspx?id=57594)

<comment><USER21> Samsung is not the majority shareholder of Seagate. Samsung owns almost 10% of Seagate which makes them the single largest holder of stock but definitely not the majority.

This transaction also took place in 2011 when Seagate bought Samsung's HD unit and as part of the deal Samsung got a chunk of Seagate in return.

How would hurting Samsung hurt Seagate? It would only really matter if Seagate had a large stake in Samsung, would it not?

<comment><USER22> In order to pay the billion dollar fine, Samsung could be forced to liquidate some of its assets, including its stake in Seagate. This in turn could cause the price of Seagate to drop.

<comment><USER14> The billion dollar fine is two weeks of Samsungs last quarter operating profits. I very much doubt they're losing any sleep worrying about having to liquidate any assets.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> I wonder how many members of the jury, including Hogan, owned iPhones?

<comment><USER24> If I remember correctly, he actually owned an android device Based on a bbc interview shortly after the trial

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> This changes everything. Even if it wasn't intentional, the very fact the foreman didn't reveal he was sued by Seagate is a dramatic blow to this case (not that it was much of a case to begin with). I'm neither a fan-boy of either companies, but fair is fair and I believe the case has been heavily one-sided from the start in favor of Apple so it's good to see the corrupt wrongdoings in this case are coming to light.

If this case isn't thrown out, I will be very surprised and disappointed in the US legal system. Can any law experts here weigh in on whether or not Apple can sue Samsung again if the case gets thrown out? Considering it's so high profile it would seem like that any jury would have the previous case on their mind and perhaps make a biased decision.

</comment><comment><USER26> "I laid it out for them."

<comment><USER19> Anyone who thinks that isn't how most juries go probably hasn't done much jury duty.

There's always someone who thinks they know what's going on, or who the others think knows what's going on.

That's why they get elected foreman.

<comment><USER27> As a counter point, on my grand jury only one or two people even wanted to be foreman, and neither were viewed as "knowing what they were talking about", since election happens on day one and no one really knows anyone else at that point. Civil cases may be different but I don't get the general impression lots of people are vying for the job. It may be a case of adverse selection: anyone angling to be foreman probably shouldn't be made foreman :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> No shit Sherlock!

</comment><comment><USER29> So the jury got some instructions on how it works and then they got a test which they couldn't fail. They should have been examined on prior art cases.

OR of course no jury but judges instead.</comment>


The Starbucks Cup Dilemma - Corporate Social Responsibility - <AUTHOR> http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/150/a-story-of-starbucks-and-the-limits-of-corporate-sustainability.html?partner=homepage_newsletter

<comment><USER2> I don't want to start an environmental flame war, but...

Isn't the disposal of inert materials in landfills one of the lease important environmental problems? Yes, if you're cutting down rain forests to make your cups, infusing them with CFCs, or using terrawatts of fossil-fuel-based power, then there are issues to discuss. But if you're just putting paper in a big pile somewhere, there's basically no issue. For all intents and purposes, our space for landfills is unlimited.

Could someone fill me in on any aspect of this I'm not considering?

<comment><USER3> You are coming at it from the wrong angle. The disposal of inert materials in a landfill is trivial. The problem is that we are disposing of otherwise useful materials, in a landfill. If I'm putting paper in a big pile of paper, and not using it for anything, I'm wasting resources, I could use that big pile of paper for something else.

Landfills can also be a problem, as they can have negative effects on things like local water quality. If we are using landfill space when we don't need to use it (things that are inert and recyclable), it is a waste of landfill space, which we should try to minimize and use for things that actually need to be disposed of safely.

<comment><USER4> Paper uses more resources to recycle (especially water) than it uses to make it fresh. It's a feel good thing that does more harm than good.

Putting paper in the ground is excellent from a CO2 sequestering point of view as well.

<comment><USER5> Awww don't disappoint me like that Ars.

Paper in the ground is the opporite of CO2 sequestering because you had to cut down a TREE to make that paper. A living tree is, by definition, a CO2 sequestering machine.

Also, throwing paper and organic matter into modern landfills, which promote anaerobic breakdown, produces methane. As you know, methane is a much more potent greenhouse gas than CO2.

<comment><USER2> Just to make Ars's point clear: the equilibium state of a forest is carbon neutral. Trees absorb carbon as they grown, then release it after death as they decay. Compared to an empty field, creating a forest stores a fixed, one- shot amount of carbon (however much carbon is in the trees at a given time); it is not a sequestering machine. If you could replace the forest with landfill which was inert and held more carbon in the form of paper than the forest, this would give a net decrease in atmospheric carbon.

Obviously, there are issues of decreased species diversity, chemical leaching, etc., when replacing a forest with a landfill that this account doesn't consider.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> I wonder why they don't come up with a cheap, washable cup that the customers 'borrow' for the duration of drinking coffee. You buy a coffee for 3 bucks, you get the cup for a dollar, and you get a dollar back when you return the cup. They wash the cup and use it again. It would be like getting it 'for here', but you give some collateral against the price of the cup, and can leave.

There are enough Starbucks within the US that returning the cup wouldn't be much of a hassle (might even be good for repeat business).

<comment><USER6> Or make it compulsory to bring your own cup, which they also sell in store if you don't yet have a suitable one. This would be great but given the competitive nature of the industry would only work in certain locations where people are more environmentally conscious.

<comment><USER7> Ever been to a grocery store that forced you to buy bags to take your stuff home? More specifically, ever been _back_ to that store?

It just doesn't work (for us Americans at least).

<comment><USER8> Yes. They also had the carts locked up so you needed to deposit a quarter (which you got back by locking your cart up again), didn't take credit cards (only debit/cash), and didn't have name-brand anything.

It worked fine, except that their bread would often start to grow mold by the time we were maybe two-thirds through a loaf (which doesn't seem to happen with bread from other stores). We'd probably still go there for other things, except that we always need bread and going to two separate stores is annoying.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Excellent article, touching on all the things Starbucks is doing, the complexities at the system level, and the fuzziness of their goals (for example no numerical targets). For me this was the top-level takeaway:

"The complexity dissipates, apparently, when you have the law on your side. Only 5% of Starbucks stores currently recycle cups, and that's mainly in places like Seattle, San Francisco, and Ontario, where it's required by law."

</comment><comment><USER10> If you dont like the idea of tossing your cup, and you're staying at the store to finish your drink, you can ask for it in a ceramic mug ("to stay", or "for here") instead of a disposable cup.

<comment><USER11> Definitely. You can often get a discount this way too, since they treat it as a "personal mug" which gets you 10% off (in Quebec, at least).

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> Polystyrene foam (styrofoam) is an extremely recyclable material. I don't think many people have access to recycling facilities though. Interesting problem!

EDIT: Another thought: aluminum. It's expensive and highly recyclable. Another benefit is that you have a small army of homeless picking the streets clean of the valuable metal. Can't find a recycling bin? Just toss it in the gutter! It'll find it's way.

<comment><USER5> Aluminum would be a terrible material for a container that holds liquids at temperatures of 150+ (65C+)

<comment><USER12> How come? Thermal conductivity? Perhaps it could be covered in cardboard.

What about glass?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Bridgehead, a local coffee shop here in Ottawa, claims their cups are 100% compostable. Assuming that's true, why doesn't Starbucks just switch to these cups? I didn't notice any different in quality.

</comment><comment><USER14> tl;dr

Could some unfortunate soul who had the misfortune of reading this entire article please summarize it in 3, possibly 4 sentences for us of a weaker constitution?</comment>


The Boostrapper's Dilemma: Navigating A Bold Myth - <AUTHOR> http://alexjmann.com/2009/12/01/the-boostrappers-dilemma-navigating-a-bold-myth/

<comment><USER2> Great article. Similar to the author's observation, my own experience is that consumer patterns have changed dramatically in recent years and a new generation of entrepreneurs is now at the best and unique vantage point to visualize what their peers need and want. So this is not about solutions looking for problems or problems looking for solutions. It is about creators of solutions being also the consumers of solutions ("entre-sumers"). There is much less need in gambling lots of money and wait to see "if the dog would eat the dog food". Entrepreneurs are the "alpha" dogs. We are our own "surrogate" customers which means that we don't need a lot of money to "supersize" our company anymore. As struggling entrepreneurs, I agree with you wholeheartedly that our first directive is very simple which is not to get funding but to acquire customers.</comment>


Show HN: Version Control for Databases - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/infostreams/db <comment><USER2> The way I have been doing database versioning and rollout for years is with Liquibase ([https://www.liquibase.org/](https://www.liquibase.org/)). It is based on the Database refactoring book that came out some years ago and provides forwards and backwards progress based on a table that tracks the checksums of the changes allowing them to be rolled out where ever the file goes. You can share with teammates, propagate to environments and have seperate setup for structure, data and test data setups.

Restoring snapshots isn't really what you want with databases. The data in production is only in production so you need to refactor it. The issue in today's 365/24/7 always online is that refactoring database structure in that way with a lot of data causes downtime so these sorts of tools require a lot of orchestration around them.

Liquibase can also capture an existing structure and data set with an export as well from just about any database engine out there, so you can capture your initial point as you are and then move forward with updates being individual changes so it is relatively easy to adopt.

<comment><USER3> I don't know why people are stuck on this model of a long chain/log of successive schema changes when you can simply make a diff.

I lay out this approach here: [https://djrobstep.com/talks/your-migrations- are-bad-and-you-...](https://djrobstep.com/talks/your-migrations-are-bad-and- you-should-feel-bad)

<comment><USER4> Because diffs don't work. If you rename a table, for instance, a diff algorithm will see that as dropping the table and creating a new one.

<comment><USER5> People love to cite this reason, but practically speaking, it's FUD. Renaming in production -- whether entire tables or just a column -- is operationally complex no matter what.

Assuming any non-trivial software deployment (multiple servers), it's impossible to execute the rename DDL at the exact same time as new application code goes live. So either you end up with user-facing errors in the interim, or you can try to write application logic that can interact with both old and new names simultaneously. That's overly complex, typically not supported by ORMS or DAOs, and very risky in terms of bug potential anyway.

I'm a database expert, and among 100% of the companies I've worked at or consulted for, renames were either banned entirely or treated as a very rare special-occasion event requiring extra manual work. Either way, lack of rename support in diff-based schema management isn't really a problem, as long as the tooling has these two properties:

1\. Catches unsafe/destructive changes in general and require special confirmation for them (preventing accidental rename-as-drop in the rare case where a rename truly is desired)

2\. Offers a way to "pull" from the db side, so that if a rename is actually needed, it can be done "out of band" / manually, and the schema repo can still be updated anyway

<comment><USER4> > People love to cite this reason, but practically speaking, it's FUD.

> Either way, lack of rename support in diff-based schema management

You're trying to polish a turd here, this isn't "lack of support" it's "it will drop objects in production."

> Catches unsafe/destructive changes in general and require special > confirmation for them

Again, polishing a turd: the only way your "automation" works is through manual intervention.

> Assuming any non-trivial software deployment (multiple servers), it's > impossible to execute the rename DDL at the exact same time as new > application code goes live.

You can construct a view referencing the old table, and rename the table. Yes, it has to be an updateable view and you need transactional DDL, but within those constraints, it's doable.

> I'm a database expert, and among 100% of the companies I've worked at or > consulted for, renames were either banned entirely or treated as a very rare > special-occasion event requiring extra manual work.

If they're using a DBMS that doesn't support transactional DDL, completely understandable. If their tools are liable to drop production data due to renames, also completely understandable.

But the fact that they ban a trivial operation is a symptom of the problem with all the half solutions and snake oil in SQL schema management. It's so bad that you have large companies investing heavily in ripping out the schema entirely, which itself is just more snake oil.

In the problem space of trying to keep a schema in sync, we know that diffing leads to unacceptable answers, that is an indicator that it's the wrong conceptual basis for a correct solution.

<comment><USER5> > You're trying to polish a turd here, this isn't "lack of support" it's "it > will drop objects in production."

That's a strawman argument. Any reasonable schema management implementation has safeguards against DROPs. If your tooling blindly executes a DROP without extra confirmation, use better tooling.

> Again, polishing a turd: the only way your "automation" works is through > manual intervention.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with requiring extra human confirmation for destructive actions. Quite the contrary. I've spent most of the last decade working on database automation and operations at social network scale, and will happily say this is a common practice, and it's a good one at that.

> You can construct a view referencing the old table, and rename the table. > Yes, it has to be an updateable view and you need transactional DDL, but > within those constraints, it's doable.

So you're assuming that every single table has a view in front; or you're dynamically replacing the table with a view and hoping that has no detrimental impact to other database objects or app performance. Either way, you're talking about something operationally complex enough that it isn't fair to say that production table renames or column renames are a "trivial operation" at the vast majority of companies.

> It's so bad that you have large companies investing heavily in ripping out > the schema entirely, which itself is just more snake oil.

This is frequently overstated. For example, although Facebook uses a flexible solution for its largest sharded tables, there are many tens of thousands of other tables at Facebook using traditional schemas.

> In the problem space of trying to keep a schema in sync, we know that > diffing leads to unacceptable answers, that is an indicator that it's the > wrong conceptual basis for a correct solution.

The only "unacceptable answer" you've cited is rename scenarios, which even if it incorrectly leads to a DROP, the tooling will catch.

If you need crazy view-swapping magic to support an operation (renames), that is an indicator that it's a conceptually problematic operation that should be strongly reconsidered in production.

As I've already stated elsewhere in this thread, declarative schema management has been successfully used company-wide by Facebook by nearly a decade, and is also a common practice in the MS SQL Server world. If you're unconvinced, that's fine, but many companies have found it to be a great workflow!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> I made this, and have been using it in production and for local development for the past year or two. It's been immensely helpful to quickly save or easily restore the database to a previously know 'good point'. I have also been using it to quickly load staging databases into development and vice versa. So far it's MySQL only, but the connection points for other databases such as PostgreSQL are in place.

It's main goal is to simplify development - it's not intended as a replacement for writing database migrations or to work with production databases. I would be grateful for any feedback, preferably in the form of pull requests ;-)

<comment><USER6> I like this pattern of being able to restore snapshots in your development environment. For the uninitiated, docker actually has all these functions. For example, if you create a container for postgres and mount a volume, you can create a snapshot of the volume for distribution for your team so they can mount/unmount anytime.

<comment><USER7> I was under the impression container file systems make running a DB in a container a bad idea? Or is it just in performance critical situations?

<comment><USER8> Doing so into the main container filesystem (which is usually an overlay/union stack) is probably bad for performance.

But a bind mount (which is usually the recommended way to do it so that data survives the container lifespan) will avoid that and just leave you with whatever "problems" the host filesystem has re: database files.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> There are multiple tools that attempt to do this, some specific to a framework some not. To name a few,

\- flyway

\- liquibase

\- dbmate

\- alembic for python/sqlalchemy

\- django migrations for python/django

\- diesel migrations for rust/diesel

\- echo migrations for elixir/echo

\- persistent migrations for haskell/persistent

All of these, in one way or another, provide an ability to create sequential database schema changes that can be stored in version control and applied/rolled back.

What is your system doing that is different from all of these?

<comment><AUTHOR> This is more meant as something that supplements migrations, as a "time machine" of your database so to speak. You would run it before you do any kind of potentially destructive operation on your database, such as running or rolling back a migration. Not all migrations are reversible (for example, migrations that drop columns), so you cannot easily go back to before you ran that migration. It's also convenient when you check out an older version of your code - you can just restore the database as it was at that point in time. You could run a command in a git hook to enforce saving a new version when you tag a new release for example. In any case, it makes your database less of a black box, and it basically becomes ok to destroy it - because you can so easily make a new snapshot and go back to how it was before.

<comment><USER5> > it makes your database less of a black box, and it basically becomes ok to > destroy it - because you can so easily make a new snapshot and go back to > how it was before.

There are some extremely serious caveats here that need mentioning. A production DB is typically taking application writes 24/7\. Restoring from a snapshot would cause data loss of any writes that occurred after the snapshot and before the restore.

You would need to also stop prod traffic and then replay the binary logs beginning from the same point as the snapshot, but that can be complicated if you're trying to reverse some DDL operation that is inherently incompatible with the transactions in the binlogs.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, your tool's invocation of mysqldump is not using the --single-transaction option. Without that, mysqldump doesn't create consistent snapshots for InnoDB tables. This means what you're dumping and restoring doesn't actually represent a single valid point-in-time of the DB's state.

<comment><AUTHOR> You are right: this tool offers no guarantees whatsoever. It's intended use is for development and staging. You could theoretically use it in production, but not on a live database server. If you have that use case, you need to think carefully about your tools and your processes to guarantee a consistent outcome.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Is this approach materially different/more scalable than using the active record, ORM, and seed file patterns supported by popular MVC frameworks (e.g., like how Rails does it [https://edgeguides.rubyonrails.org/active_record_migrations....](https://edgeguides.rubyonrails.org/active_record_migrations.html#migrations- and-seed-data))? Isn't the crux of all that to be able to source control and easily distribute schemas and data in a database agnostic way?

<comment><USER11> This was my same thought. Really impressive as an exercise to develop this yourself, but this is core functionality of a lot of ORMS. Rails' ActiveRecord is kind of the shining example of this, with it's `schema.rb` versioning file

<comment><AUTHOR> This is more meant as something that supplements migrations, as a "time machine" of your database so to speak. You would run it before you do any kind of potentially destructive operation on your database, such as running or rolling back a migration. Not all migrations are reversible (for example, migrations that drop columns), so you cannot easily go back to before you ran that migration. It's also convenient when you check out an older version of your code - you can just restore the database as it was at that point in time. You could run a command in a git hook to enforce saving a new version when you tag a new release for example. In any case, it makes your database less of a black box, and it basically becomes ok to destroy it - because you can so easily make a new snapshot and go back to how it was before.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> This doesn't tackle the primary issue I have with databases and source control - diff.

A proper source control system for databases should handle both migrations and diffing across migrations. I should be able to compare any two commits and view exactly what is different between them.

<comment><USER13> There are purpose-built databases for this purpose such as Dolt ([https://www.dolthub.com/](https://www.dolthub.com/)), itself purportedly derived from noms ([https://github.com/attic- labs/noms](https://github.com/attic-labs/noms)). Because it's baked into the database, you can do complex things like diffs and merges, but it requires that you run everything on that RDBMS vs. something standard. Generic diffing from two arbitrary data states of any database is pretty challenging, even if you have all the transaction history.

<comment><USER14> Yeah, Dolt is built for distribution / collaboration of data sets, rather than for actually hosting live data in production (although it can do that). The workflow you would use to diff your database versions would be very similar to OPs: periodically take a snapshot dump of prod, then import that snapshot into Dolt. The reason this is better than just diffing the snapshot directly (i.e. textual diff where you see which INSERT statements are present in one version but not the other) is that 1) you get git-like version control semantics where each revision is associated with a person and a commit message, and 2) you can run SQL queries to inspect what's different between two revisions, rather than needing to write some analysis program.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> We built a Git-style version controlled SQL database called Dolt ([https://github.com/liquidata-inc/dolt](https://github.com/liquidata- inc/dolt)) mentioned deep in this thread. It allows diffs and merges across schema and data based on commits.

We are focused on the data distribution/open data use case ([https://www.liquidata.co/blog/2019-10-09-where-is-the- data-c...](https://www.liquidata.co/blog/2019-10-09-where-is-the-data- catalog/), [https://www.liquidata.co/blog/2019-12-06-the-history-of- data...](https://www.liquidata.co/blog/2019-12-06-the-history-of-data- exchange/)) but I think a number of use cases mentioned in this thread are covered by Dolt.

You do have to move a copy of your data to Dolt, it does not sit on top or beside of your current database. So, it is an extra step in your data modification workflow, similar to versioning code. You had to add a version control step into your code modification workflow.

</comment><comment><USER16> Pretty nice tool :-)

But what if the data store would do all of that already?

      - retaining the history of your data:
        - free deduplication through copy on write and sharing unchanged structures
        - further store space savings through page-level versioning (not all records in a page have to be written: just the changed/inserted/deleted ones plus depending on the algorithm a few more to fast track it's reconstruction)
        - read and write performance is balanced using a sliding snapshot algorithm: This avoids having to read long chains of incremental page changes and it avoids write peaks from intermittant full page snapshots. Instead they get trailed over a few (usually three or four revisions).
        - the sorage manager stores timestamps for all revision in a RevisionRootPage, which itself is indexed

      - Optional commit author and message
      - Reverting to and committing a past "good" revision is just adding a few bytes to index a new RevisionRootPage which references the past revision data (simple pointer)
      - You can diff taking rolling hashes into account
      - Currently I'm working on a diffing JSON format and a web front-end to display these in special space filling approaches
      - Sophisticated time travel queries
      - typed, user-defined and versioned secondary index structures (based on AVL trees)
      - a path summary kept up to date always
      - a lot of metadata stored and kept up to date for each record/node

It's already implemented in [https://sirix.io](https://sirix.io) / [https://github.com/sirixdb/sirix](https://github.com/sirixdb/sirix)

I'm working on getting it stable, but help from you, the Open Source community is always needed :-)

</comment><comment><USER13> I'm working on a project looking to solve a similar problem, but using a very different mechanism to provide git-like semantics for any database that runs in a container ([https://titan-data.io](https://titan-data.io)). We support local docker containers today and will be adding k8s support in the coming weeks to run in any Kubernetes cluster using k8s snapshots (e.g. push data state from CI/CD k8s cluster to S3 bucket, and clone locally later for forensics).

Each automation approach (SQL, dumpfiles, or storage) carries different tradeoffs, but we believe there's a real problem facing developers when it comes to managing data within their workflows. Would love to learn more about what some of the killer use cases are, and how these approaches can complement each other.

</comment><comment><USER17> Which databases can this be used for? Based on the usage of phpmyadmin and WordPress in the examples, I take it only works for MySQL?

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, so far this is MySQL only.

I don't think adding Postgres support would be that far fetched, have a look at [https://github.com/infostreams/db/tree/master/bin/drivers/my...](https://github.com/infostreams/db/tree/master/bin/drivers/mysql/connectors/direct) for example to see the meat of the load & save operations. You'd have to implement it twice though, once for local servers, and once for remote servers (via ssh).

<comment><USER18> This should be on your README (ignore if it already is and I just missed it).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> I think dotmesh does something similar - [https://dotmesh.com/](https://dotmesh.com/)

Github link - [https://github.com/dotmesh- io/dotmesh](https://github.com/dotmesh-io/dotmesh)

</comment><comment><USER20> Looks very interesting. In the README it says:

> The text mentions connection type phpmyadmin, but it doesn't actually work. > Don't use it.

Will phpmyadmin support work in future? My use case is making backups of a DB where I don't have SSH access but do have a phpmyadmin account.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yes, that's why I originally added it. After a day of hacking I had it (mostly) working on one particular instance of phpmyadmin, but when I tried it on another one it completely broke. Not sure why that was, but since I didn't have the need myself anymore I stopped developing that part.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> So this just automates myqldump and import, right?

<comment><USER22> I can't tell if it is for just the schema, or the schema + data inside the tables. If it is just the schema, I feel like there are better software ways to define + manage database migrations (aka make them part of the repo with up/down methods to roll forward / roll back)

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> _cough_ Datomic _cough_ : [https://www.infoq.com/presentations/Datomic- Database-Value/](https://www.infoq.com/presentations/Datomic-Database-Value/)

</comment><comment> k-godwin I'm not sure what advantage this has over putting MySQL dumps into git (or manually versioning them with filenames)?

</comment><comment><USER24> Hi, thanks for making this. I tried to give it a shot with a remote MySQL database, but I'm not sure how to specify the connection port (I submitted an issue about it). Sorry if it's obvious and I missed it.

</comment><comment><USER25> Seems useful as a tool for integration tests. Makes it a bit cleaner to update the state of a database and test against the application level code

</comment><comment><USER26> Nice idea to speed up the proccess of development and testing.

Does the snapshot generated include the views, triggers and stored procedures?

</comment><comment><USER27> This is a really cool idea. Thanks for sharing this. I will definitely give it a go if you have postgres.

</comment><comment><USER28> Looks nice, but I don't see what advantages it has compared to liquibase or flyway.

<comment><USER29> It's not just structure, it's data, too

<comment><USER28> Well, most of the flyway migration schemes I have seen so far also cover data (both initial refdata and migrating existing when the structure changes).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> If you were to take the hash and place it in a bitcoin transaction on the blockchain, you could "notarize" each hash with your private key.</comment>


The Art Of The iOS Icon - <AUTHOR> http://www.mobileinc.co.uk/2012/05/the-art-of-the-ios-icon/

<comment><USER2> One of those icons was designed for an app of mine : [http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/bill-organizer-manage- track/i...](http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/bill-organizer-manage- track/id509909227?mt=8)

We (the designer and I) ultimately rejected it, because it just did not stand out at 57x57. As good as some of those icons look, you have to discipline yourself to view and evaluate them at 57x57, cos thats how the user is going to see them. Also bear in mind that the user will see them among a multitude of icons, so they have to stand out for more than just being pretty..

I am tempted to conclude that these pretty icons just don't matter as much as we think they do, and the most effective ones may well be those with a solid bloc of color (like the path icon), cos they are easier to make out on a crowded screen .

<comment><USER3> Are you talking about this?

<http://xkcd.com/993/>

<comment><USER4> Actually, here in good 'ol socialist Sweden all of our groceries, with a few exceptions, used to look like that up until the end of the 90s. I remember as a kid eating cereals from a big white box with the word "CORNFLAKES" on it in big blue bold letters.

<comment><USER5> In Germany, one of the grocery store's own products are called "ja!" and sold in white packages with just the logo and the content printed on them.

Example: [http://polpix.sueddeutsche.com/polopoly_fs/1.992181.12827258...](http://polpix.sueddeutsche.com/polopoly_fs/1.992181.1282725852!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/860x860/image.jpg)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Cute site. It doesn't change the fact that the iOS icon standard is terrible, though. (It defeats the human visual system's attempts to recognize objects by silhouettes, which is why so many people take so long to find the icon they are looking for).

<comment><USER7> It's not terrible. You're ignoring the human visual system's ability to recognize objects by color, shape, or pattern.

<comment><USER8> Shape and silhouette are closely related.

With simple icons, like the Phone app, the background is not overly distracting. Unfortunately many apps believe they need to fill the entire icon with detail. The YouTube and Notes apps have pictures instead of simple shapes. There is nothing to subconciously recognize so instead I must interpret the picture and conciously map that to the name and purpose of the app.

Apple could have used spacial awareness to help us recognize apps. Unfortunately iOS messes this up too, the home button can take me to any of my app screens. So I need to get my bearings before hunting for my app.

We are left with just color and patterns to differentiate icons. This makes the task of recognizing apps much more difficult purely so the phones look nice in store.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Nice collection, thanks for posting. Have you seen Marco Arment's new Nursing Clock icon? Clever and Unforgettable

[http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/nursing- clock/id525195468?mt=...](http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/nursing- clock/id525195468?mt=8)

</comment><comment><USER10> The author of the article seem to think that a good iOS icon is a one that uses a perspective trick to produce a faux 3d effect. I'm not sure these are very usable when sized down to 57x57 pixels which is default iPhone icon size (double that for retina).

</comment><comment><USER11> "Never underestimate the importance of a great app icon. It's the first thing a user sees before downloading your app (I've downloaded apps in the past solely on the icon making the app seem interesting)."

I cannot stress the importance of this. I have payed money for apps over their free counterparts because the icon looks better. It's a bite sized preview of the experience I can expect to have with your whole app, and more often than not, the quality of the icon is directly correlated to the quality of the UI and UX as a whole.

</comment><comment><USER12> Those icons are absolutely horrible. They are images, distracting the viewer by the amount of details. Icons should convey only the bare minimum of shape. The metaphor of the meaning should be captured, not the incredilous picture of a remotely possible parrallell.

</comment><comment><USER13> The problem is most of those aren't actually apps (are any of them?) and are not shown at actual iPhone size. Dribble isn't the app store.

The post may has well been titled 'Cool picograms in a 1024 pixel rounded square'.

</comment><comment><USER14> _1) Put £500-800 of your budget aside_

I think this is a gross underestimation of how much these designs would cost. Does anyone have any real data on the cost of iOS icon design?

<comment><USER15> Anyone willing to pay that much for an icon design either has deep pockets or a big commitment to good design. That is a lot of money for an icon.

<comment><USER16> I don't see that at all. Unless you are just building free throwaway apps in your spare time, it's in the realm of reason for any serious app.

People do make decisions based on icons, so a better icon can be good investment if you are trying to attract downloads.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I love all these designs and follow many of the designers who created them on Dribbble. These are impressive aesthetic achievements, but I'm always surprised that none of these icons are for an app with decent sales. I don't think many, if any, of these are in the top 200 of their respective categories, but there are a number of horribly designed icons in most of the top 20's. I'm a designer and predisposed to nice designs, but always find it a shame that these great works don't get a larger audience.

</comment><comment><USER18> What do these actually look like on the iPhone at icon size?

<comment><AUTHOR> It varies, on Retina many look beautiful. Some of the icons shown in the post are only for iTunes which has a different, larger pixel size (512x512) to the one on the handset

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> I understand the criticism about these highly-designed icons not being appropriate for low resolutions, but any decent designer will recreate them from scratch for different sizes so they still perform well.

</comment><comment><USER20> Murat, are there any resources/insight you'd recommend for making app icons yourself?

<comment><AUTHOR> Here's a great video of one of the designers recording their Photoshop session and creating a icon

<http://vimeo.com/36302707>

I use this PSD to create icons, it comes with a PS Action that resizes and exports the icons based on the biggest design so you don't have to make each one. It also puts it in situ!

Download it here <http://www.pixelresort.com/blog/new-app-icon-template/>

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> Just my $.02, and I realize this is anecdotal, but I don't give two craps what your icon looks like. If your app is good, I'll use it.

<comment><USER22> You're right. But a lot of users buy/download free apps simply because it has a nice icon. Would you buy/download '3420 TOEIC Word Test Pack'[1]? It might be good, but you wouldn't download it because it's ugly and pollutes your shiny phone's home screen.

[1] [http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/3420-toeic-word-test- pack/id4...](http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/3420-toeic-word-test- pack/id482837003?mt=8)

<comment><USER21> Well, like most people on HN, I'm an engineer, and I just don't care. I want functionality and stability. You could have the ugliest icon ever and I just don't give a damn because it is irrelevant.

<comment><USER23> There's nothing inherent in being an engineer that means you can't appreciate good design.

<comment><USER24> No, but dismissing an app based on "bad design" (of a tiny icon, of all things) is just prejudicial, illogical silliness.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Oculus Rift review: The virtual reality headset will change everything - <AUTHOR> http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2013/12/oculus_rift_review_the_virtual_reality_headset_will_change_everything.html?wpisrc=hpsponsoredd2 <comment><USER2> Unfortunately not a review. Just an opinion-editorial discussing loosely related bunch of hyperbole from the author who used an Oculus Rift a few months ago for apparently a few minutes.

<comment><USER3> Yes, and he makes no mention of the disappointingly low angular resolution. Even the "improved" resolution on the consumer version is approximately equivalent to using a 1980s IBM PC with a 320x200 CGA display. You get a much wider field of view with the Rift of course but the individual pixels are huge.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Did nobody edit this article? It's bizarrely written.

"Gravity and physics say you can't put a ride an ant Honey, I Shrunk the Kids–style, but who is going to listen to gravity and physics when you can ride an ant..."

</comment><comment><USER5> The poor writing and apparent lack of editing (riddled with typos) really detracted from the article, which was essentially a puff piece.</comment>


30 And single, move to SV to work on fundamental ml research at FAANG? - <AUTHOR> Weird question to ask, but I'm at a crossroads. Currently working remote near family, making very good money. Single, and in the past dealt with serious mental health issues. Doing much better now with a support system, but I'm nervous about slipping into old thought patterns. Have an opportunity to work in an ML research lab at big tech on the ground floor of c++/deep learning frameworks and state of the art algorithms. Issue is it requires moving to the bay area, where I know no one. It's my dream job and I'm very technically inclined, but I want a family and the support system I have at home. Finding a good partner is something I really need to focus on, and I worry the bay area will make it even harder. What do I do? <comment><USER2> I can't help with a solution,

but I would rather be in your situation than mine!

all the best</comment>


Ask HN: Did anyone predict the advent of fake news on the WWW, 20 years ago? - <AUTHOR> My questions is if anyone predicted what we're discussing in 2017, back in say 2000. Were there any discussions on academia? Research papers or at a W3C level? Or, was everyone on the " information superhighway" bandwagon? <comment><USER2> Fake news is not a new thing: [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weekly_World_News](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weekly_World_News)

</comment><comment><USER2> Also [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_(supermarket_tabloid)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_\(supermarket_tabloid\))</comment>


Notes from YC Startup School Europe - <AUTHOR> http://theinflexion.com/blog/2014/07/26/notes-from-startup-school-europe-london/

<comment><USER2>
      The voices that interrupt the stillness are the ones
      that are the daemons.

      Redefine success as "learning something interesting".

      External success is a mistake.

      - Paul Buchheit

His goal for Gmail was to get to 100 happy users. "What would it take for your to be a happy user."

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah, that part of Paul's talk was amazing. He said most people thought Gmail was a mistake, so he explicitly set a goal to make 100 users really happy, and just went round asking them "What exactly can I make this product do to make you happy?" Then he'd just pick things off the list and do them.

<comment><USER3> Expanding on the idea of 'redefining success', I love how he explained that if the answer to the "What can I do to make you happy?" question was too complex to implement, he'd just keep asking different people until he found problems that were relatively easy to solve.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Thanks nqureshi for making these notes. Unfortunately, I couldn't travel to this Startup School and am really missing it (missed live stream, too, because I'm with my kids). I'm most curious to know if attendees enjoyed the talks and the overall event. I'd like to start looking forward to the 2015 version if there should be one :)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks jl! Everyone I spoke to loved the event, particularly because:

1\. The talks were awesome 2\. It was ridiculously well-organised (and the food was superb) 3\. There was a really good crowd there

I look forward to more YC events in London!

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I also took notes, but at a key point/insight level. My notes are here for anyone they are of use to...

[https://docs.google.com/document/d/14cGeSs5CgRIgMuwjmkq43hsg...](https://docs.google.com/document/d/14cGeSs5CgRIgMuwjmkq43hsgqDG_- XKpYltnok9FKPg/pub)

</comment><comment><USER6> Thanks for the notes! I couldn't open the live stream.

About the notes, some of the advice feels great. But i just can't relate to it. I mean: Stripe - they weren't getting a lot traction, then Peter Thiel funded them. Homejoy - they were about to close, then Paul Graham gave them some money.

Then everything else sounds like "good advice if you can get a meeting with some of SV legends". Specially the Homejoy one sounds to want make you feel guilty if you quit. Well, if I am that close to running out of cash to pay my bills and in the edge of quiting, guess what, I can't get a meeting with a legendary VC to get his money and endorsement. I will just quit.

<comment><USER7> In my opinion, the hardest question really is when should you throw in the towel?

There certainly are a lot of zombie companies out there with founders toiling away on "bad" ideas with seemingly no hope of success, burning precious opportunity cost with each passing week, month and year.

At the same time, one hears again and again that the successful founders are the ones who don't give up. That success comes from facing down those doubts, shaking the despair and finding a way to keep going even when it feels everyone around you thinks you are going to fail.

I don't have an answer other than to say that for anyone it is a very personal, gut-wrenching decision. If it is no longer worth it to you, then that is your call and I don't think anyone else -- especially someone who hasn't entered the same arena -- should think any less of you for it. Most startups fail after all.

And, I think that is likely close to the answer to the question. The right time to quit is when you no longer believe in the idea, or in your ability it make it succeed, or even that the idea is superior to other opportunities which might be available to you.

I'm not speaking as someone who has had huge success, but as someone who has faced setbacks and doubts, has come close to running out of money multiple times, but has somehow managed to get past those challenges and has become a bit more comfortable riding this crazy roller coaster.

What I've found is that the drive to "find a way", that survival instinct to keep going because you believe at your core in what you are doing -- that triggers creative thinking. And when you open your eyes and look around you see there are resources and people willing to help you that you didn't see before. You see new paths that were not visible before. At least that's been the case every time in my experience. Once you get past the doubt and are determined to find a way, then you find it. I suppose, until the last time, when you don't...

Ben Horowitz described it as "focusing on the road, not on the wall"[1] and that rings very true to me. You can only see the opportunities around you when are able to stop focusing on the wall (impending doom).

I don't believe founders should be guilted into chasing ideas they no longer themselves believe in. There are certainly cases where quitting is going to be the right call.

But human psychology is such that you will want to "flee the danger" and you will see certain doom when there may very well be a way out.

My two cents (if it is worth even that) is to never decide to quit out of fear.

Don't quit because you doubt your chances.

The time to quit is when you no longer believe that what you are working on is what you really should be working on.

[1] What's The Most Difficult CEO Skill? Managing Your Own Psychology -- [http://www.bhorowitz.com/what_s_the_most_difficult_ceo_skill...](http://www.bhorowitz.com/what_s_the_most_difficult_ceo_skill_managing_your_own_psychology)

EDIT: fixed typo

<comment><USER6> Great comment. Maybe I rushed into a superficial critique of the advice, but you wrote very well what My really doubt is. And gave me good new insignts also... Thanks

<comment><USER7> Thanks, and glad my comment helped.

Startups are REALLY FREAKING HARD, but you are not alone. ;-)

Good luck!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Haha I laughed when I read "move to Buenos Aires". I am currently here with my startup. If someone wants to grab a coffee and share ideas, you should tweet me! Twitter: @jonvillage

</comment><comment><USER9> I couldn't watch the stream myself, but those notes were great! I especially liked the summary parts. Thanks!

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks Kristjan!

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> is there a recorded version which we could see, like the NY startup school?

<comment><USER11> The whole event was filmed. I'd expect an edited version will be made available.</comment></comment>


Translating crowdsourcing into crowdfunding - a VC alternative - <AUTHOR> http://www.transcapitalist.com/transcapitalist/2009/8/14/taking-crowdsourcing-to-the-next-level-at-trampoline.html

<comment><USER2> What are the regulatory obstacles for a Kiva for tech start-ups? I'm guessing they're SEC relics from pre-internet scams or have to do with being publicly traded.</comment>


The Mere Presence of One's Own Smartphone Reduces Available Cognitive Capacity - <AUTHOR> http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/full/10.1086/691462 <comment><USER2> I think we saw this on HN a few months back. Can't find the prior discussion.

EDIT - Did a bit more searching: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14639967](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14639967)

<comment><USER3> This article grabbed my attention the last time it was posted. The original research is severely flawed - see my post [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14645120](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14645120)

I was a bit late to the party last time, but hopefully some of the speculations that happened last time can be nipped in the bud this time around.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Interesting article! I worked with complex span tasks in grad school, and just had people silence their phones :(.

I wonder how many reaches participants made toward their phones when they were in their desk or pocket (even if they were off) ..</comment>


What women at Microsoft face, and why many leave - <AUTHOR> https://www.seattletimes.com/business/microsoft/i-felt-so-alone-what-women-at-microsoft-face-and-why-many-leave/ <comment><USER2>
      Steeped in a workaholic culture that more than once had her
      sleeping on the office couch, she was afraid of missing her
      school-age daughter's childhood.

      "I discovered how important family was," she said. So she
      quit.

That sounds entirely understandable. Most of the driven, workaholic types I've known over the course of my lifetime have been men.

But I don't think we should outlaw, or even demonize workaholic cultures like the one described.

<comment><USER3> I think we should make sure to let people do what makes them truly happy. It should be okay for someone to prioritize their family over a job if that's what they want to do.

There's a strong movement, through social pressures, making it not "okay" to do that.

Just like it should be okay to be a workaholic if that's what helps you sleep, on the couch, at night

<comment><USER2> _> Just like it should be okay to be a workaholic if that's what helps you sleep, on the couch, at night_

The problem is that workaholic men who put their career ahead of their family do better in their career than women who put their family first. So the social pressure is for men to change their life choices, and companies to change their cultures, to accommodate women.

<comment><USER3> > <class A> who prioritizes their career do better, _in their career_ , than > <class B> who prioritizes something other than their career>.

Is that not how things are supposed to work?

<comment><USER2> _> Is that not how things are supposed to work?_

Yes, in my view. Not, apparently, in the collective view of our society. If that happens too much in a particular company, like Microsoft, they're subject to government pressure and unfavorable public scrutiny like this article. We simply cannot allow companies to have hard-driving, workaholic cultures if it means that most of the benefits accrue to men rather than women.

Popular media is constantly reminding me that woman are strong, invincible, fierce and independent. And yet I'm also constantly told that men have to change their behaviors to accommodate women.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Can myopia be treated by compressing the eyeball? - <AUTHOR> Here's an interesting experiment that anyone with myopia (near-sightedness) can do. Cover one eye, and with the other eye which is affected by myopia gaze into a distant object. Press gently with your thumb on the eye/eyelid. By adjusting pressure you can probably make your vision much clearer (at least I can). This must be because because the refractive error is eliminated as the eyeball is compressed.<p>Is there any treatment of myopia this way? As a simple example, would applying pressure over a long period cause the eyeball to deform permanently, improving vision? <comment> T-A Myopia is caused by light being focused in front of the retina (usually because the eye is too long), so it makes sense that compressing the eye reduces blurriness. But doing so long term seems like a really bad idea: you are increasing intraocular pressure, and that is known to cause glaucoma [1].

I would also be concerned about short term effects of such experimentation. You may be causing bleeding or other damage. No need to tempt fate.

[1] [http://www.webmd.com/eye-health/glaucoma-eyes](http://www.webmd.com/eye- health/glaucoma-eyes)

<comment><AUTHOR> I doubt you can do any significant damage by doing this experiment once, the amount of pressure needed is quite small (depends on your level of myopia) and probably less than rubbing your eyes.

</comment></comment><comment><USER2> I've heard of a way to treat myopia like this.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5Efg42-Qn0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5Efg42-Qn0)

</comment><comment><USER3> Orthokeratology</comment>


LLVM Project Blog: libc++ and C++1Y - <AUTHOR> http://blog.llvm.org/2013/09/libc-and-c1y.html <comment><USER2> This is huge.

Not so much because "LLVM has a libc++", but because it's another example of the C++ standards committee and the implementers getting their act together to rev new specs _with_ complete, compliant implementations at a useful rate.</comment>


23-year-old occupies empty $2.5 million Boca home [video] - <AUTHOR> http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/palm-beach/boca-raton/fl-boca-squatting-in-style-20130122,0,4949608.story

<comment><USER2> _Plus, if they've got the balls to break in the house, what's to prevent them from coming over here?_

Huh?!? I'm always amazed at the ease of fear-mongering that some people come to. The squatter didn't break into an occupied home (assuming he broke in at all), he occupied a vacant abandoned home. At least he's trying to publicly live there and make it his, which may help reduce more malicious squatters from occupying that home and using it for criminal purposes (this has happened with abandoned homes in Las Vegas, NV).

At least now the neighbour can claim a 100% occupancy rate in the neighbourhood, and not one where there exists an abandoned, foreclosed home.

<comment><USER3> She's most likely jealous (of something she already has but has to share and is still paying mortgage on) and grasping at straws. It's something humans do.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I don't entirely understand. He has to live in it for 7 years to claim ownership and Bank of America has already issued an eviction notice, how is he still allowed to live there?

<comment><USER5> Just wait until the bank uses non-lethal force, such as tear gas, to defend their property thus encouraging him to leave and end his 7 year stay early...

<comment><USER6> How does he get food if he's not allowed to leave the property?

<comment><USER7> Occupying the property does not mean staying there 24/7. Sleeping there most nights and going to work during the day etc is still occupancy.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Considering how Bank of America has been handling foreclosures in my neck of the woods I am surprised they even noticed. Good luck to him.

</comment><comment><USER9> I first heard about squatting while I was in Amsterdam in 2007. They even had squatted restaurants. The rule there was that if you found a building not lived in for 12-months, you could break in, put your own lock, a table, chair, and bed then call the cops and let them know you were squatting. The process to kick out a squatter could last over a year. I just learned that it was outlawed in 2010, but that it still goes on.

\</comment><comment>

"In the past a building could be used legally by someone who needed to squat if it was empty and not in use for twelve months, and the owner had no pressing need to use it (such as a rental contract starting in the next month). The only illegal aspect was forcing an entry, if that was necessary. When a building was squatted, it was normal to send the owner a letter and to invite the police to inspect the squat. The police checked whether the place was indeed lived in by the squatter. In legal terms, this means there must be a bed, a chair, a table and a working lock on the door which the squatter can open and close.

In cities, there was often a kraakspreekuur (squatters' consultation hour), at which people planning to squat could get advice from experienced squatters. In Amsterdam, where the squatting community is still large, there are four kraakspreekuur sessions in different areas of the city, and so-called "wild" squatting (squatting a building without the help of the local group) is not encouraged.[27] Dutch squatters use the term krakers to refer to people who squat houses with the aim of living in them (as opposed to people who break into buildings for the purpose of vandalism or theft).[5] ...

On October 1, 2010, squatting was finally outlawed in The Netherlands after the Squatting Ban Bill was passed into law by both houses of Parliament. On October 28, 2011, the Supreme Court of the Netherlands decided that the legally forced end of squatting can only occur after an intervention of a judge.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squatting#History>

<comment><USER10> The history is complicated, but it has a lot to do with the housing shortage in Amsterdam (and other places in NL) and the concept of a right-to-live.

If many buildings in an area are sitting unoccupied, unused, and potentially falling apart while simultaneously affordable housing is unavailable, it becomes morally justifiable to squat. This is especially true if the landlord has had ample time to renovate, find tenants, or sell the property... If he has failed to do so, he is actually contributing to the shortage of affordable housing by driving prices up.

Regulations permitting squatting put pressure on landlords, which seemed to work pretty well. Landlords used "anti-squat" tactics - renting out vacant properties on a temporary basis (i.e. with the option to evict at any moment) to prevent a squat. These rates were excellent in Amsterdam, and many students and would-be squatters took advantage of this, effectively bringing 'squatting' into the economy.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Good for him, hope he holds onto it. He'd better start researching persuasion techniques, bet they hire some ex-cops to social engineer him into slipping up.

<comment><USER11> Can you please explain a bit more? How would he slip up? Is he not allowed to leave the property or something like that?

<comment><USER3> I mean a sly ex-cop/PI is going to pose as a delivery guy and wake the kid up at 8AM after he feels safe and gets sloppy, and get him on camera agreeing that he doesn't really own the place. Something like that is my guess. There are a million tricks that they will use, depending on how resourceful and stubborn they are.

<comment><USER11> From what I understand, what he's doing is not in question. Part of this law is that he has to openly state that he intends to squat and use this law to eventually take ownership. He's not denying that the property does not currently belong to him.

<comment><USER3> I'm talking about using social engineering techniques to get him to let his guard down and admit he's pulling something.

"Nice scam you got going here kid" "Thanks" He admitted it was a scam! Get him!

Just an example as to the kind of thing I would imagine private companies would do to get him out of there by technicality, against his own usage of a technicality law.

<comment><USER11> That wouldn't make a difference. What you're calling a scam, is actual law. He can do this. Part of being able to do this is admitting what you're doing. He has a sign on the front window explicitly stating what he's up to. Does not sound like there's anything to get him to admit.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Side note: Ghostery informs me that the SunSentinel website has 32 tracking/social pixels. 32.

</comment><comment><USER13> Have any of you ever seen the 7-up series? It's a series of documentaries that follow a bunch of from age seven through age 49. I think it's available on hulu.

One of them squats for a while and this just reminded me of that.

</comment><comment><USER14> Given <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_possession> , I don't see how he can hope to prevail. The true owner has tried to remove the disseisor . Although it does appear the young man will be able to go on a trip and isn't under a self imposed house arrest.

</comment><comment><USER7> Clever hack. These have popped up regularly in the media over the last year or two. Texas is another popular spot, given their laws and abundance of foreclosures.

It is a requirement that they maintain the property and make improvements while living in it - seems much better for RE prices than a boarded up foreclosed house. Soccer moms can't see it that way though, they just see this guy getting something 'free' that they had to pay for, and get furious.

</comment><comment><USER15> Sad to be brazilian this days :/

<comment><USER16> He's a Brazilian in Florida. I don't think this has anything to do with his nationality.</comment></comment>


Square's new cash register will take Bitcoin, Apple Pay and much more - <AUTHOR> http://www.engadget.com/2014/09/23/square-apple-pay-bitcoin-new-cash-register/

<comment><AUTHOR> First use case for Apple Pay?

<comment><USER2> I've seen Apple Pay being used on 6 different occasions in stores already since Saturday. It works directly with NFC card readers, so no need for Square Cash.</comment></comment>


ReGrid – Distributed realtime file storage with RethinkDB - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/internalfx/regrid <comment><USER2> The gist of it seems to be that each file is stored as a series of binary chunks inside RethinkDB. [1]

[1] [https://github.com/internalfx/regrid-spec#chunks- record](https://github.com/internalfx/regrid-spec#chunks-record)

<comment><AUTHOR> The basic idea is taken from GridFS. But we've reworked it from the ground up for RethinkDB.

The spec is also currently out of date. It needs to be updated to match the current state of development.

Mostly, just method names have changed.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> This is the sort of interesting technology that RethinkDB makes possible. I'm the next months/years I think we'll see more projects that use Rethinkdvs scaling and realtime capabilities to make some very useful tools.

</comment><comment><USER4> One nice thing about GridFS is that the spec is maintained by MongoDB and consistently implemented in all its major DB drivers.

Any plans to port this to other languages, or get the spec blessed by RethinkDB?

<comment><USER5> Daniel from RethinkDB here.

The answer is yes, that's definitely on the radar. I can't give an ETA for the official drivers yet, but I hope it's going to happen relatively soon.

<comment><USER6> Out of curiosity, why would you prefer this sort of implementation to something more in line with MogileFS? [e.g. Metadata storage with the actual file stored independently on the local file system of multiple physical nodes]

[https://code.google.com/p/mogilefs/](https://code.google.com/p/mogilefs/)</comment></comment></comment>


Google+ Profile Suspended - <AUTHOR> http://antimatter15.com/wp/2011/07/google-profile-suspended/ <comment><USER2> > What if you don't feel comfortable revealing this information?

Don't use social networks that require you to do so. G+ is currently the 80th most popular social network in the UK. That means that there are at least 79 more that may or may not accomodate your specific requests. G+ is not the end- all for social networking.</comment>


Empathy represses analytic thought, and vice versa (2012) - <AUTHOR> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/10/121030161416.htm <comment><AUTHOR> Original paper (fMRI reveals reciprocal inhibition between social and physical cognitive domains): [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3602121/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3602121/)</comment>


Show HN: Purchase Consumer Service Contracts in 1 Minute - <AUTHOR> https://www.resallex.com/news/

<comment><USER2> Initial reaction was...huh? But now I think I get it. I can order three services through your company: Lawn Mowing, Snow Removal, and Leaf removal. I just tell you I need it and you'll find someone to do it for me.

But your website is full of words/phrases not relatable to a consumer in this space, the biggest culprit being 'contracts' or 'service contracts'. I trust that the work you're doing behind the scenes is innovative and impactful, but keep the pitch simple.

Get Maid (<http://getmaid.com>) is an example where I feel the pitch is simpler.

Edit: Sorry one more thing, I know you want to be global, but it's infuriating when I search for a provider and get back no results. If you're only available in a limited area today, be honest and tell me on the search page. And let me know you're planning to expand.</comment>


WHO readies coronavirus app for checking symptoms, possibly contact tracing - <AUTHOR> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-who-apps/who-readies-coronavirus-app-for-checking-symptoms-possibly-contact-tracing-idUSKBN22K2QV <comment><AUTHOR> "The World Health Organization (WHO) plans to launch an app this month to enable people in under-resourced countries to assess whether they may have the novel coronavirus, and is considering a Bluetooth-based contact tracing feature too, an official told Reuters on Friday."

"Engineers and designers, including some who previously worked at Alphabet Inc's Google and Microsoft Corp, have been volunteering for weeks to develop the new app with about five of them overseeing the process. They are designing it open-source on the hosting service GitHub [0], meaning code is open to public input."

[0] [https://github.com/WorldHealthOrganization/app](https://github.com/WorldHealthOrganization/app)</comment>


I am not a "JavaScript Developer". - <AUTHOR> http://andrewkelley.me/post/not-a-js-developer.html

<comment><USER2> If you're only referring to what recruiters send to you, then you're frustration is for not. While I can understand your issues with labels, this is a keyword driven era where you have to summarize your entire skill set into a few short keywords so people can categorize you.

While recruiters tend to generalize requirements, they aren't looking for generalists. They're looking for candidates that match specific keywords.

I get letters from them for Drupal contracts, when the C# to Drupal ratio is 500:1 on my resume.

Unfortunately, the tech world has made us "our f-ing khakis".</comment>


Ask HN: I've been collecting Webform-spam for a year - what could I use it for? - <AUTHOR>

Ok, this will sound stupid.
I've always noticed how much spam every single web-form you make tends to get if you don't implement a captcha or something like that. So I started recording some of that spam through a completely open web form
Now I have 729k entries and the DB is growing faster and faster. Does HN have any idea what that "data" can be used for?
A little more info here: http://arnorhs.com/2010/02/23/stats-on-spam/ <comment><USER2> Machine learning students can use it to train anti-spam filter designs. However, you will need to add more details for example how did you collect them did you use a filter? If you did perhaps more valuable would have been the spam that got away!

<comment><AUTHOR> I collected them using the web form on www.spambotlove.com

It's a totally unfiltered web form with no captcha or anything, designed specifically to be easy for spam software to submit into it.

I was thinking about using it input for generating images or something. As a random seed, maybe. I don't know.</comment></comment>


The Hounding Of A Heretic - <AUTHOR> http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2014/04/03/the-hounding-of-a-heretic-ctd/

<comment><USER2> It sets an extremely bad precedent that he was hounded so vehemently for a personal opinion he never brought to the workplace, and which is fairly mainstream, whether or not you agree with it.

</comment><comment><USER3> Seriously: this has been discussed to death, folks. It's time to move on. Flagged.

<comment><USER4> Yes. I agree with Sullivan but this will do us no good.</comment></comment>


The new Myspace - <AUTHOR> http://vimeo.com/50071857 <comment><USER2> It looks like Microsoft product. Give MS's recent track record of UI innovation across a variety of devices, that's a good thing.</comment>