New in Gmail Labs: Smart Labels - <AUTHOR> http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2011/03/new-in-gmail-labs-smart-labels.html <comment><USER2> While not a game changing feature for most people here (since most people have their own filters that do this), it's a great feature for the non-techies using GMail.

GMail does a great job of keeping everyone happy. An example is how they added "Folders" (edit: it's called 'move to', but it's basically folders) for people who didn't understand labels, without ruining labels.

<comment><USER3> FYI it's "Gmail" (lowercase m).

<comment><USER4> As long as they use an uppercase M glyph in their logo, I will capitalize it however I like. :)

<comment><USER3> Yeah, that's a funny contradiction, but trust me, I work on the Gmail team.

Check out the spelling in the blog posts on Google's own blog:

<http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/>

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Neat. I wonder what OtherInbox makes of this? Their organizer feature is basically this.

</comment><comment><USER6> Anyone know whether this learns from your actions, in the same way as spam filtering and Priority Inbox do? i.e. if I remove the Bulk label from a conversation, does that make similar conversations less likely to be labelled as Bulk in future?

<comment><USER7> The last paragraph on the blog post seems to hint that it is not the case.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Is this bad news for people who do send out mass mailings with marketing campaigns etc?

<comment><USER9> Yes, extremely bad.

Email sales rely on the fact that people need to take action to get the email out of their face. It's an attention-intensive process.

This will shift that dynamic to the other side, where people will need to go out of the way to check their marketing messages. For sites like LivingSocial, it'll be especially bad because those deals may expire before they're even seen.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> The cynic in me thinks this feature was built to push Groupon emails to a now auto hidden "bulk" area.

<comment><USER11> And Facebook Notifications, perhaps?

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> What they need to do is make "Nested Labels" and "Hide Read Labels" work nicely together.

Also for "Nested Labels", enabling a label count of the sub-labels in the main label would be great. Where did "Hide Read Labels" go?

<comment><USER13> Settings > Labels > Show in label list > show if unread

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> As administrator of a Google Apps account, will my messages get marked as bulk mailings if I send out something to everyone in my organization? I suppose I could ask the same about the priority inbox. Because there are certain classes of messages I may have to send out that everyone needs to read.

I guess this could be mitigated by some sort of an urgent notification from your admin feature on the Google Apps dashboard. I suspect I might send some mailings I'm content to let Gmail mark as bulk.

</comment><comment><USER15> I hope they add the ability to re-order labels soon. Either that, or Sparrow adds some ability to re-order labels and slightly better label integration.

<comment><USER5> Why do you need to re-order labels? And do you mean in a conversation or in the sidebar?

<comment><USER16> In the side bar, and I assume he means he'd like to reorder them, in order of priority. The top labels being most important.

I'm +1 on this.

<comment><USER17> you can use special characters like @ and # in front of the labels you want to keep up at the top. you can even use the nested labels gmail lab to group them together.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> I'm fed up with Gmail lately. Priority Inbox is a mess. And lots of mail keeps going to 'Spam', which before I moved was hidden. Most 'Spam' is from my support ticket software. I mark it 'Not spam', and it still goes there. Perhaps it's time for someone to release a simple online mail service..

<comment><USER19> Add the sender e-mail address to your address book. If that doesn't help, create a filter. Priority inbox can be turned off.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> While the smart label feature itself works in Google Apps, it seems like the configuration support (editing the default filters etc) doesn't. I can't seem to edit any of the smart-label filters through the Settings dialog.

</comment><comment><USER16> I'm disappointed how they solved this problem. I was hoping they would use clustering to figure out what label to apply based on whats already been labelled. I thought that was the next logical step from 'Priority Inbox'.

</comment><comment><USER20> This is nice, but please: release a feature that lets you add notes to messages already!

I have so many threads in which I've left open drafts to be able to add a few comments.

<comment><USER21> I use the "Add to Tasks" option to add notes to messages. You can try that if it works for you.

<comment><USER20> Can you somehow get to the note from the message (as opposed to get to the message from the task)?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> I turned this on and a ton of my auto archived mail started showing up in my inbox. Seems cool though but I immediately turned it off.

</comment><comment><USER23> I'm not seeing this in my (paid, google apps) account - does anyone know if it's rolled out for everyone?

</comment><comment><USER24> Ditching custom labels and filters in favor of this. Bye bye bacn.

<comment><USER25> Agreed. Eager to see how well these work in the longterm.</comment></comment>


How Austin became a top city for women in tech - <AUTHOR> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-austin-became-city-women-tech-caroline-fairchild/ <comment><USER2> I've lived in Austin my whole life, started working in tech 20 years ago.

I could count on 1 hand the number of female developers I've worked with.</comment>


7 Slack Integrations Developers Should Use - <AUTHOR> http://blog.takipi.com/7-essential-slack-integrations-developers-should-know/ <comment><USER2> "Pronouncing it Jiff vs. GIF still remains unresolved." \- Maybe for other people, but for me there was never a debate. (reading "Jiff vs. GIF" aloud just makes the whole thing seem even more ridiculous. If it is pronounced "jiff" then why does asking if it should be "jiff vs GIF" make any sense?)</comment>


Ask HN: Is 'processing' a form of procrastination? - <AUTHOR>

I'm struggilng with this on a project I'm working on.  I've got quite a lot of abstract concepts in which I need to find creative ways to glue together.  Sure, I could sit and stare it in the face until I find a solution.  But I often find I'm struck by flashes of (for want of a better term) 'inspiration' when walking or doing something idle.  Things just click, then doing the man hours is a joy.  Total flow-state awesomeness.  But it's not always efficient when there's a deadline.
Anyway, I just wanted to find out others' epxeriences of with the 'processing - v - procrastination' schism?  Do your  breakthroughs come from shear will and putting the hours in?  Or do you leave it to the side and chew it over, trusting that it will just come to you?
I tend to be the former, but I'm not sure if it's a pithy escuse for me wanting to do the initial long hours to get to the breakthrough.  Also, as mentioned, it's not great for when you're working to a timeline. <comment><USER2> I find there are two modes:

1\. Learning- This is where the processing comes in. Lots of thinking about the big picture, figuring out some new tech or doing something new. It usually takes a first implementation which sucks, then a refactoring or rewriting once you learn from your mistakes.

Learning takes time, so def start early when there are deadlines.

2\. Doing- After I've learned how to do something, and actually done it a few times, it becomes routine. It is less fun, but I can get into a longer flow. This is great for deadlines, because I don't have to think too much at 4:00am spazzing out on caffeine, since I've done it all before.

To be the most productive, I find I have to do both. I always try to learn something new, but when I'm 'processing' it I go on to doing something I've done 10 other times before.

</comment><comment><USER3> You define "processing" as _not_ thinking of your problem, but not actively thinking of something else. A lot of modern people would also call that boredom.

There's growing evidence that creativity is mostly a background process that occurs while we're bored. Because creativity often presents itself to our conscious mind as an epiphany, we think it's an instantaneous event, but it's not.

[https://www.google.com/search?q=creativity+boredom](https://www.google.com/search?q=creativity+boredom)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for this insight. I'd not heard of this linking.</comment></comment>


Livegrep: interactively grep source code - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/livegrep/livegrep <comment><USER2> I create a new terminal.com container with this application. I've a hard time compiling it but finally I made it.You can give a try at [https://terminal.com/tiny/4VEsG1NgXp](https://terminal.com/tiny/4VEsG1NgXp)

</comment><comment><USER2> This is a great tool. I will install it in a terminal.com container so everyone can see it in action!</comment>


Interactive Camera Simulator - <AUTHOR> http://photography-mapped.com/interact.html <comment><USER2> I always struggled with manual mode on my Canon 5DMk3 body and then decided to take a risk and buy a Leica M10 this year. The Leica is mostly manual: no autofocus and manual aperture.

I read a couple of the online photography course posts on Reddit to learn the basics and downloaded a light meter app for my phone and started experimenting. It took me about an hour to get good photos and after a few days with the camera, I didn't even need the light meter anymore. Six months later, I can pull the camera out and pick the right settings on the first try maybe 90% of the time. Thanks to the manual focus and the focusing style of the rangefinder, my pictures are so much better, on average, than I ever achieved with the Canon.

<comment><USER3> That's pretty interesting. I'll have to tell my brother about this, he has a pretty low opinion of Leica in its present incarnation.

<comment><USER4> For what it's worth... I have a Canon 5D Mark 4 and I almost exclusively shoot in manual mode.

Leica, Canon, Nikon, Sony... a camera is just a tool. Learn how to use it properly and you'll get great results.

<comment><USER5> I also have a 5D. Whenever I try manual mode I use the exposure meter to get the correct exposure, so it feels like I should have just used Aperture Priority mode and let the camera match up the exposure for me. Is there any real benefit in using manual mode?

<comment><USER6> Having full control over aperture, shutter speed, and ISO allows you to create shots in-camera that would otherwise require extensive post-processing or compositing.

Sometimes you want some motion blur in the scene while maintaing shallow depth of field, e.g. when shooting a stationary subject against a busy city background.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I didn't see it mentioned, but it should be noted that the motion blur example would be based on a fixed camera on a tripod. You need to adjust the shutter speed based on the focal length of your lens using 1/focal length as your starting point and go faster from there. Shooting at 1/60 hand-held with a 50mm lens will provide pretty great results. Shooting 1/60 on a 300mm hand- held lens will result in a motion blurred photo from camera and lens movement, even with in-body motion stabilization. The slowest the shutter should be when shooting hand-held with a 300mm lens would be 1/320\. It's surprising how many people don't know this and as a result think that shooting manual is far more difficult than it really is.

</comment><comment><USER8> One interesting side-note is that on some recent cameras ISO adjustment might be actually not fully useful as they seem to apply the amplification essentially in "software".

See the section about "ISO-invariance" for example here: [https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-a7-iii- review/6](https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-a7-iii-review/6)

<comment><USER9> Additionally, most cameras these days will under-expose by a pretty substantial amount. Digital darkroom software maintains a database of cameras with an entry for how much each camera under or over-exposes (mostly under) which is applied before any of your adjustments are layered on top. Adobe's DNG spec calls this "baseline exposure". I used to always under-expose by a about a third of a stop because I reasoned that whilst I could probably recover shadow detail (even if it were noisy), once the sensor has clipped, there's nothing I can do to recover lost highlights. With modern cameras, this doesn't really make sense any more: the camera will just meter that way to begin with.

It's a double-edged sword though: under-exposing will add more shadow noise.

Iliah Borg (one of LibRaw's authors) has a good write-up on it: [https://www.rawdigger.com/howtouse/deriving-hidden-ble- compe...](https://www.rawdigger.com/howtouse/deriving-hidden-ble-compensation)

DXOMark also maintains a database of their own measurements of each camera, including actual ISO sensitivity for each nominal ISO sensitivity, eg: [https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Nikon/D850--- Measurements](https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Nikon/D850---Measurements)

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Nikon has a nice lens simulator that helps in understanding lenses and sensor formats - [https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/lens/simulator/](https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/lens/simulator/)

</comment><comment><USER11> Why does the camera lens swap up and down, but not right and left? Is the drawing correct? [http://photography- mapped.com/print.html](http://photography-mapped.com/print.html)

<comment><USER12> Yeah, that's a mistake in the graphic.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Neat. I wrote a javascript module that applies SLR effects to yr webcam (altho there is no aperture parameter; it'll be fun to add that algorithm some day)

it's been lots of fun to build apps with and use

[https://www.npmjs.com/package/film](https://www.npmjs.com/package/film)

<comment><USER14> Needs some screenshots.</comment></comment>


Apple is doubling down on open source - happy-go-lucky http://www.techrepublic.com/google-amp/article/apple-is-doubling-down-on-open-source/ <comment><AUTHOR> The only thing that has doubled down here is the marketing of the fact they are contributing to open source. They have both been large users and contributors to open source since the switch to OS X (NeXT acquisition).

Just off the top of my head, projects they have had a large hand in: WebKit & JavaScriptCore, Objective-C, CUPS, LLVM, Clang, Bonjour/Zeroconf, Darwin, launchd, libdispatch, CoreFoundation, dtrace.

And more recently Apple Lossless Encoder, LZFSE compression, and of course Swift.

And this is only a tiny fraction of what they are users of.

<comment><USER2> It would be nice if some of their contributions were less "throw it over the wall once or twice a year".

It would be nicer still if they stopped thinking their browser only needs to get new features once per year. Safari is rapidly getting a reputation as the new IE6. Fully supporting ES6 means nothing when everything is being transpiled and minified anyway, and the (arguably) dominant mobile browser your (kinda) forced to target doesn't support features that shipped in every other browser years ago, heck many missing features have even stabilised in other browsers years ago. The dev builds on desktop are just a token gesture that further displays how far behind the times WebKit/Safari/MobileSafari are falling.

Here are just a few things not supported in any Apple browser, _Including_ the " _Technology Preview_ " on desktop:

CSS Motion Path; CSS Device Adaptation; Client Hints: DPR, Width, Viewport- Width; inputmode attribute; MediaRecorder API; Network Information API; Web Animations API; Pointer events; Web App Manifest; seamless attribute for iframes; Payment Request API; Credential Management API; Push API; FIDO U2F API; Permissions API; Screen Orientation; Object RTC (ORTC) API for WebRTC; Proximity API; Ambient Light API; Battery Status API; Vibration API; Web MIDI API; getUserMedia/Stream API; WebAssembly; 'SameSite' cookie attribute; Public Key Pinning; XHTML+SMIL animation;

<comment><USER3> This looked like a pretty long list of unsupported APIs, so I decided to do some research:

\- CSS motion path is not an official standard; it is implemented only in Blink (Chrome/Opera).

\- CSS device adaptation is a W3C working draft. It is available prefixed in IE/Edge and Opera Mini, but is unprefixed in 0% of shipping browsers.

\- Client Hints: DPR, Width, Viewport-Width is an IETF working draft implemented only in Blink (Chrome/Opera).

\- inputmode is supported in 0% of shipping browsers.

\- MediaRecorder API is a W3C working draft supported in Blink (Chrome/Opera) and Firefox but not IE/Edge or Safari.

\- Network Information API is not an official standard; it is supported only in Chrome for Android.

(Source: caniuse.com)

I stopped going through the list at this point. At least from the top of your list, none of these features are "shipped in every other browser" and some are shipped in no browsers at all. I'm not sure how it shows that Safari is "far behind the times."

If anything, the list seems to show that Chrome implements many non-standard APIs not available elsewhere. Combined with its mindshare (if not marketshare), this suggests that Chrome--not Safari--is in some ways the new IE6.

<comment><USER2> I'd edit my post to remove the items that aren't standard or even working drafts yet, but unfortunately the time window has passed so I can't now.

But I can't agree that Chrome is in any way the new IE6. Chrome is actively participating in the public view in the process of web standards. Apple seems to 'participate' insofar as they are on lists of participating companies. Apple pretty much adds just one batch of features per year, and does so through a completely opaque process that outside developers are _almost_ completely irrelevant to. Chrome at least listens to outside opinions, while one of the defining traits of the IE6 years was having to work under the umbrella of a "we don't care, just use what we gave you" attitude from the IE6 developers.

Also, the fact I had to open chrome in order to post this comment to HN is an amusing addition to this little "how broken is the web" discussion.

<comment><USER4> I suspect the reason gp included the IE6 comparison at all was in response to yours, after looking into ES6 support across browsers for features you specifically called out, which I think is fair to do.

As for opening Chrome to post your comment, are you having issues with other browsers when you do so? I generally use Safari in Mac OS X and iOS without a problem.

<comment><USER5> Web Developers use common lowest denominator with is IE8-IE9 for public facing projects and IE11 for internal...

Your Safari will work just fine, but it is still behind Firefox or Chrome [0]. I am not saying that Safari is new IE because we will struggle with IE11 for years to come.

Before Safari 10 ES6 was supported in 54% then in Safari 10 is 100%. This is wrong approach to web, it is the same approach that MS had in the past. Ignore standards and make some improvement with new version for bragging rights.

[0] [https://nolanlawson.com/2015/06/30/safari-is-the-new- ie/](https://nolanlawson.com/2015/06/30/safari-is-the-new-ie/)

<comment><USER6> > Before Safari 10 ES6 was supported in 54% then in Safari 10 is 100%. This is > wrong approach to web, it is the same approach that MS had in the past. > Ignore standards and make some improvement with new version for bragging > rights.

How is implementing some of a standard, and then completing work to implement 100% of that standard "ignoring standards"?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> If they are "doubling down on open source", maybe they could get open source Darwin working again? From what I've heard, while they still release some of the source code, it is no longer in a form in which it can easily be compiled into a usable operating system – e.g. some of the components they release source for can't even be built because they rely on unreleased Apple private header files – basically, things have gone backwards on this front compared to earlier versions of OS X.

(From what I've heard, I don't know how true it is, Apple became less open with Darwin, around the time of the PPC-Intel transition, out of fear it was making life easier for people trying to use OS X on non-Apple hardware easier.)

<comment><USER8> > _If they are "doubling down on open source", maybe they could get open > source Darwin working again?_

Why? Without the UI and OS X GUI programs it's not something many would care to run as opposed to Linux or FreeBSD, and most haven't.

<comment><USER7> I can think of one use. Suppose I am developing something non-GUI (e.g. a database, an application server, a compiler or interpreter for some programming language, etc.) While macOS is unlikely to be the production deployment platform, getting it running on macOS will make some developers happier (yes, they can always use a VM or Docker to run the Linux version, but running a native macOS version has its advantages.)

So, now I have a non-GUI app for (among other platforms) macOS, I want a build machine for compilation and automated tests. Ideally just a VM somewhere (maybe even in the cloud). To legally run macOS in such a way, it needs to run on Apple hardware, which adds expense and complexity. However, I could run a Darwin VM legally on any hardware. Now of course, Darwin isn't quite macOS, but for a non-GUI app it might be close enough (depending on exactly which APIs it uses and whether those APIs fall into the open source Darwin subset).

Is that a particularly common use case? Probably not. But there probably are multiple open source projects and maybe even some proprietary software packages for which that use case would exist.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> This is a Google AMP page, so it displays pretty strangely on desktop browsers (full-width paragraphs) -- here's the normal URL.

[http://www.techrepublic.com/article/apple-is-doubling- down-o...](http://www.techrepublic.com/article/apple-is-doubling-down-on-open- source/)

<comment><USER10> I actually prefer the AMP version even on a non-mobile browser. It does load noticeably faster.

<comment><USER11> But it sends requests to Google servers, always. It's cool that its lightweight, but not like this.

I flagged the post because it downloads a file of obscure, unstandardized format designed to send tracking information to Google.

It should at least have an [AMP] tag like other "non-HTML file format" posts do.

Edit: I'm sorry if my post comes across as needlessly hostile, any hostility is only directed at the AMP situation. AMP seems very much deliberately designed as an attractive way to get webdesigners to let Google to track more consumers. What the hell is with people excusing the fact that each and every AMP page makes requests to Google servers, as defined by the "standard"?

<comment><USER12> I think it's up to the author to decide where they host. Just curious: Would you complain the same way if it was google sites based, but using author's domain? Why/why not?

Also, I don't think every page makes requests to google. All the ones I see go to a CDN (one designed for AMP, sure). So standard caching applies. But again, author's choice - are other CDNs any better?

<comment><USER11> This is an attempt to standardize the tracking of users hosted on every site not hosted by Google. I do think its up to the author to decide where they host and this MUST include the page's dependencies!

I don't mean they can't have 3rd party dependencies, but no specific 3rd party should be required, especially if they don't support graceful degradation in the case where the 3rd party is unreachable.

And on the CDN, it's run by Google, just read the whois data:

Registrant Organization: Google Inc.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Is Apple still reducing dependencies on GPL code?

[http://meta.ath0.com/2012/02/05/apples-great-gpl- purge/](http://meta.ath0.com/2012/02/05/apples-great-gpl-purge/)

<comment><USER14> Might want to be honest: not GPL, just GPLv3

Can't really blame them either. This was the exact result that most (outside of the GPL bubble) predicted when v3 was released.

<comment><USER15> Yeah, this should not be a surprise to anyone who's been paying attention for the last 10 years. GPLv3 was incredibly divisive, both inside and outside the open source community.

Admittedly, for some people this may have been part of its intent- to draw more lines in the sand, to force out those that the FSF deems as having insufficient ideological purity. The FSF doesn't shy away from calling out its enemies- to my eyes, over the decades it has been far more concerned with condemning what it perceives as being evil, rather than promotion of what it perceives as being good.

<comment><USER14> Oh yeah, it was _totally_ it's goal and I don't begrudge them that.

The problem is that by v3 the GPL was so ingrained as THE OSS license that many projects and devs just used v3 out of habit.

Now for some they may be fine with it, and that's cool, but I think it's telling that we've seen a resurgence of MIT, Apache, Mozilla, LGPL, and BSD licenses.

GPLv3 has been extremely damaging to OSS, intentionally or not, as companies associate OSS with it - which is a shame.

<comment><USER16> > The problem is that by v3 the GPL was so ingrained as THE OSS license that > many projects and devs just used v3 out of habit.

As Stallman would point out, GPL is Free Software, not OSS.

> GPLv3 has been extremely damaging to OSS, intentionally or not, as companies > associate OSS with it - which is a shame.

If companies really want to continue shipping crapware locked-down IoT and ARM systems they can pay for the development of the software themselves. Since it is effectively impossible to run your own Linux distribution on the vast majority of Android devices, contributing ARM-related Linux code as a hobbyist is literally working for Google/phone manufacturers for free. Stallman did not start GNU so you could sit on your Macbook writing ad-tech apps to deploy to AWS and the Google Play Store.

<comment><USER14> > As Stallman would point out, GPL is Free Software, not OSS.

Yes _I_ know that, _you_ know that, but it had positioned itself (deliberately) as the first choice & was very effective at it.

Or put another way: a PC doesn't have to include Windows but there's a reason the campaign was Mac vs PC not Mac vs Windows.

Also you seem to think I care what Stallman thinks or wants. I really don't.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I think a lot of this is a result of probably not being able to recruit top talent as easily as companies who have "opened up".

1) Many people at top of the talent pool know that the internet makes it possible for them to not only make huge differences at companies they work for, but they can also (if allowed) make enormous differences to the entire world. If they don't have to compromise their free time in order to do that, it's an enormous benefit.

2) The people a company like Apple wants to hire are interviewing the company just as thoroughly as they are interviewing the candidate. If the candidate has not already seen a large portfolio of their work there's no real guarantee (even if you're Apple) that you can convince them that they'll be working on amazing teams with amazing engineers.

3) When you're at the top of the talent pool your goals and incentive structure are almost certainly not tied directly to compensation. Of course you want to be compensated fairly, but when it comes down to it you're passionate about what you do, and as a consequence you've become great at what you do. You generally don't become the best at something because you believe it will compensate you better.

</comment><comment><USER18> They could start with making sure atleast major Linux distros work fine on Apple desktop and laptop hardware.

It would most likely be hw specific quirks and drivers given most of the hardware they use is standard and already supported by Linux. (With Intel building in their Wi-Fi chips even Broadcom wireless stuff won't be an issue.)

<comment><USER19> This has nothing to do with their desire to use open source. In fact, it's blatantly against their goals.

<comment><USER18> Well most of Apple's servers and services run on Linux and there is clearly a demand for Linux laptops from developers. If Apple has to be friendly with OSS supporting Linux will take them a long way - good for developers including Apple's own services/infrastructure folk, broadens up the Workstation market again for Apple etc.

Doubling down on Open Source is not really doubling down if you just continue to dump code on github.

<comment><USER19> I think your definition of open source is much different than mine. Requiring cooperation or interaction with the community is very GNU / GPL mindset, not BSD. Many of us are perfectly OK with code drops.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Let them start supporting free codecs and stop patent aggression, as well as allow FOSS (including other browsers) in their application store. Then we'll see how much they are friends of open source or not.

Oh, and you can add to that support for Vulkan on their platforms.

<comment><USER21> They allow FOSS in their iOS store, just not copyleft licenses.

<comment><USER20> _> just not copyleft licenses._

That's already a problem and discriminates against a major part of FOSS projects.

<comment><USER6> Isn't the problem that gpl(3?) is incompatible with the App Store rules?

Does apple actually _forbid_ certain licences, or is this just another case of GPL fans assuming everyone else has to adapt to _them_?

<comment><USER20> GPLv3 protects the user against DRM. And if store forbids such licenses, then the store isn't FOSS friendly.

<comment><USER6> What the gpl claims to do for Users or developers is irrelevant.

The question is why a developer can't publish gpl3 code to the App Store?

Is it because of an apple rule or is it because gpl3 says the developer can't do that?

<comment><USER21> The problem is that Apple imposes restrictions on the use of apps, even if the app developers themselves don't want to. For example, did you know you can't use your iPhone apps for non-personal, commercials purposes? That means that legally, if you use any app for "any fare, fee, rate, charge or other consideration, or directly or indirectly in connection with any business, or other undertaking intended for profit"[1], you're breaking the Store rules and can have your account terminated.

The GPL doesn't allow the users rights to be restricted in this way, hence the incompatibility.

[1] 18 U.S. Code § 31

<comment><USER6> > did you know you can't use your iPhone apps for non-personal, commercials > purposes?

Can you point to the App Store rule that says this?

<comment><USER22> Here's what it says. I don't think it forbids commercial use. I'm not quite sure what it says.

[http://www.apple.com/legal/internet- services/itunes/us/terms...](http://www.apple.com/legal/internet- services/itunes/us/terms.html)

> SERVICES AND CONTENT USAGE RULES

> Your use of the Services and Content must follow the rules set forth in this > section ("Usage Rules"). Any other use of the Services and Content is a > material breach of this Agreement. Apple may monitor your use of the > Services and Content to ensure that you are following these Usage Rules.

> All Services:

> \- You may use the Services and Content only for personal, noncommercial > purposes (except as set forth in the App Store Content section below).

[...]

> App Store Content:

> \- The term "App" includes apps, iMessage and Apple Watch apps, in-app > purchases, extensions (such as keyboards), stickers, and subscriptions made > available in an app.

> \- You can use Apps on any device that you own or control.

> \- Individuals acting on behalf of a commercial enterprise, governmental > organization or educational institution (an "Enterprise") may download and > sync Apps for use by either (i) a single individual on one or more devices > owned or controlled by an Enterprise; or (ii) multiple individuals on a > single shared device owned or controlled by an Enterprise. For the sake of > clarity, each device used serially or collectively by multiple users > requires a separate license.

<comment><USER21> Notice how the exception in the last clause only applies to "devices owned or controlled by an Enterprise". What I wrote is that using _your_ iPhone is not allowed, and that's plain from the terms.

<comment><USER6> I'm pretty sure that rule is saying: you can install an App on multiple devices for one user, or one device for multiple users, but you're not supposed to install a single purchased app on a whole fleet of devices that will be used by multiple people.

<comment><USER22> But this rule is pretty clear, no? What am I missing?

> You may use the Services and Content only for personal, noncommercial > purposes

<comment><USER6> > What am I missing?

Um, this:

> (except as set forth in the App Store Content section below)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Remove _google-amp /_ from the article's url for a better experience

</comment><comment><USER24> "Apple has been getting religion on open source, but more than code the industry needs its voice."

what

<comment><USER25> wut :D (and i know this is a useless comment - my immediate response to the sentence was that :D )

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> ctrl-f, "cassandra", 0 of 0... what's context?

</comment><comment><USER27> Show me.</comment>


SaaS market will 'collapse' in two years - <AUTHOR> http://news.zdnet.com/2424-9595_22-218408.html <comment><USER2> Wow... The contempt this dude has for his customers seems to ooze off the page.

</comment><comment><USER3> I wonder what 37signals has to say about this.</comment>


Is there anything in the UVA area for tech entrepreneurship? - <AUTHOR>

I'm a college student interested in tech entrepreneurship after I graduate. However, for personal reasons, living near the University of Virginia for a year or so is highly desirable. Is there anything I can do while there to further my startup ambitions or general tech skills, or is Charlottesville a entrepreneurship desert and unambiguously a waste of time? <comment><USER2> Washington DC isn't that far, and there's a host of (growing) startup opportunities and like-minded people there.

That said, it's still being nurtured, but it'll only grow if people contribute. You're not too far off. ;)

For reference, I sometimes crash in Fredericksburg, VA but still use DC to keep my juices flowing. It's workable.</comment>


Five Inmates Built Two PCs and Hacked a Prison from Within - <AUTHOR> https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/five-inmates-built-two-pcs-and-hacked-a-prison-from-within/ <comment><USER2> Extensive discussion: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14093970](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14093970)

</comment><comment><USER3> Dying over here trying to figure out why they had phpBB installed.</comment>


Stripe Atlas includes $5k in AWS credits – we recevied $1k - <AUTHOR> https://formcake.com/blog/stripe-atlas-includes-five-thousand-credits-this-is-what-we-got <comment><USER2> (I work at Stripe.)

Here's the story on partner credits: A thing we do at Stripe Atlas is go to companies in the ecosystem whose services we like and ask them to bid on the opportunity to support a large cohort of Internet businesses. They then do so and communicate this to us on, essentially, a handshake: we act as a channel for them and in return they give our customers (and not us) some benefit.

Partners occasionally change their mind about internal thresholds for marketing promotions, which sometimes moves their operational processes about the deal that Stripe Atlas users will get going forward. They do not always communicate this to us in real time.

As we've learned more about this over the years, we've tried to update our language to convey that these sort of credits are up to the partners. (We have seen customers get $5k or other amounts and, ultimately, that is at Amazon's discretion.) I'll check later today to make sure we're using the newer "up to" language throughout our docs.

We hope this strikes the right balance of predictability for new Stripe Atlas users and getting the best support from the ecosystem for your new endeavors.

<comment><USER3> You'd need to start with the main Atlas homepage :

> Receive discounts from our partners, including $5,000 in free credits from > Amazon Web Services

[https://stripe.com/atlas](https://stripe.com/atlas)

<comment><USER2> Thanks; that is a regression. We'll fix it.

<comment><USER4> It now reads:

" Grow and scale with free credits

Every dollar matters when you start your company. Sign up for discounts from our partners, including Amazon Web Services, DigitalOcean, legal and accounting firms, and more."

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> > There's always an understanding with services like this that credit offers > come with a lot of hand-waving and "caveat emptor"-ing: notice founders > "have access to" free credits (emphasis ours), which could imply that some > founders have the capacity to call on those funds, but not all. But still, > the language does seem very direct and makes it easy to believe signing up > includes $5,000 in AWS credits.

I'm not sure I understand the distinction between why they got $1k vs $5k. Is there some clause in the contract that states that it's "up to $5k under certain situations?" It seems like a lot of information is missing here.

<comment><USER6> This is unfortunately the case in many of these offers where the big banner number is used to entice people in, but the actual amount given is much lower. There is really no accountability to these types of over-promises as its not really regulated like a sweepstakes or other free contest. And providing no easy to understand rules keeps anyone from figuring out how to actually receive the top amounts.

Not sure that is what's going on in this case, but without accountability or penalties for bad behaviors this is likely to continue to be the case. No fine print necessary.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> To save you the click:

> We have not received $5,000 in AWS credits. But now the good news: We have > still received $1,000 in AWS credits.

</comment><comment><USER8> Is the era of cloud credits over? It's been a while since I cared, but back in the olden days I had GCP/AWS credits to the tune of $100,000.

<comment><USER9> MSDN Subscriptions still have them - but of course you're still paying thousands of USD/year for the subscription and the credits you get included are a tiny fraction of that - and it's not like it's costing Microsoft anything to provide that either.

<comment><USER10> Microsoft has a solution they call Action Pack [1] where you pay ~$400/yr and get $100 in Azure credits each month. So basically $400 gets you $1200 worth of credits.

[1] [https://partner.microsoft.com/en-us/membership/action- pack](https://partner.microsoft.com/en-us/membership/action-pack)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> There does not appear to be any fine print at least as seen on the only three pages documenting the program at the time of my comment ([https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Astripe.com+"%245%2C00...](https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Astripe.com+"%245%2C000+in+credits"+"atlas")):

• [https://stripe.com/docs/atlas/details](https://stripe.com/docs/atlas/details)

• [https://stripe.com/docs/atlas/next](https://stripe.com/docs/atlas/next)

• [https://stripe.com/atlas](https://stripe.com/atlas)

I've archived the pages for the record:

• /details: [http://archive.vn/xRojd](http://archive.vn/xRojd) and [https://web.archive.org/web/20200707231048/https://stripe.co...](https://web.archive.org/web/20200707231048/https://stripe.com/docs/atlas/details)

• /next: [http://archive.vn/5eyFp](http://archive.vn/5eyFp) and [https://web.archive.org/web/20200605003821/https://stripe.co...](https://web.archive.org/web/20200605003821/https://stripe.com/docs/atlas/next)

• /atlas: [http://archive.vn/5m2s2](http://archive.vn/5m2s2) and [https://web.archive.org/web/20200707231646/https://stripe.co...](https://web.archive.org/web/20200707231646/https://stripe.com/atlas)

CoreSet, you may be owed $4,000 in AWS credits from Stripe.

</comment><comment><USER12> I was assuming the $5k would be like a certain amount of credit towards S3, a certain amount towards RDS, a certain amount towards load balancers, a certain amount towards video transcoding, etc. so if you don't use video transcoding, then you can't access the credit earmarked for that service.

but is it literally just a dollar amount that offsets your AWS bill, and you get some variable amount? This post doesn't actually seem to include any information about "what you actually get" other than to say you don't get $5k.

<comment><USER13> It says that they got $1,000 instead of $5,000.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> I recently applied for the 5k too, got 1k. A bit misleading, but sure... credits are credits.

<comment><USER15> What's the fine print or reasoning that accounts for the difference between what you're led to believe you'll get and what you actually get?

<comment><USER14> Honestly, no idea. I didn't mind enough to check. Our costs are low.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> That's strange, we got $10k in DO, and $20k in GCP. Both lasted 1 year. The only one I really used was GCP, which expires for me in August.

I'm not sure if I regret it or not. I was able to learn a lot and work with technologies I probably wouldn't have but for the credits, but now I'm stuck trying to figure out how bring down our $500/mo spend a few months after we already launched.

</comment><comment><USER17> I used Atlas and got the full 5K from AWS last month. Digital Ocean denied me any credit at all even after I followed all the many steps and sent screenshots of the Atlas signups and all our sensitive company info. But I don't think much of their service so whatever. I would suggest people avoid going through the DO process, it's a scam to collect information on new companies.

</comment><comment><USER18> AWS Activate Founders Package offers $1,000 direct from Amazon.

[https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2020/02/aws- launc...](https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2020/02/aws-launches- activate-founders-package/)

</comment><comment><USER19> This is straight up false advertising in my opinion. You're paying for a product that includes $5k in AWS credits but you're only receiving $1k in credits.

</comment><comment><USER20> This article doesn't go beyond the title but I assume like any AWS funding you have to show the ARR (Annual reoccurring revenue) potential for the future. I know for a fact that they'll dish out $1m+ but it has to eventually lead to revenue for them.</comment>


Building a faster Ruby garbage collector - <AUTHOR> http://engineering.twitter.com/2011/03/building-faster-ruby-garbage-collector.html

<comment><USER2> Or you could just use <http://www.jruby.org/> or <http://rubini.us/>.</comment>


Why data will never replace thinking - <AUTHOR> http://blogs.hbr.org/fox/2012/10/why-data-will-never-replace-thinking.html

<comment><USER2> I realize that "data" and "thinking" are shorthands for something more fleshed out, but doesn't the title read as somewhat obtuse? Like calling an article "why facts will never replace understanding" or "why Wikipedia will never replace people who know about what Wikipedia pages are about."

<comment><USER3> It is HBR. The point isn't to learn something, it is to feel smart because one is exposing oneself to 'Harvard', fairy godmother of the East Coast wannabe elite.</comment></comment>


Linus Torvalds' company acquired and gone  - <AUTHOR> http://techwatch.reviewk.com/2008/11/linus-torvalds%E2%80%99-company-acquired-and-gone/ <comment><USER2> The page seems covered in flashing scumware ads - to be avoided I think.

<comment><USER3> agreed. interesting story, but i'd rather read it on a more reputable site.

<comment><USER4> This seems to be the where the article has been copy-and-pasted from:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=372084></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Does Chrome submit URLs you visit to the Google search indexer? - <AUTHOR>

Today I surprisingly found a page in a Google search I was looking through, but I know I'm the only person who could have possibly visited the page.
The page was a debugging URL I was using to monitor some server activity, and I never shared it with anyone or pasted it in any chat interface. It is even running on a non-standard port, so even visiting the root domain wouldn't lead a crawler to it.
Is it possible that Chrome is submitting URLs I visit to be indexed by the Google search bots? <comment><USER2> Was it listed on the result page or did you get it as an auto-completion result?

This first is unlikely, the second is normal as Chrome mixes in local results from the history store and the bookmark store.

<comment><AUTHOR> It was listed on the result page on google.com

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I'm a little skeptical of this because tons of people use obscure URLs for delete links or confirmation links. Wouldn't people see tons of entries in logs of Google hitting confirmation links and havoc being created by Google hitting one-time links for, say, deleting a file? It just feels like one of those things that if it were true, would have already been at the top of Hacker News several times.

</comment><comment><USER4> Highly possible, if you've not changed the settings in _chrome://chrome/settings/_ to not submit anything.

To prevent future leaks, uncheck all in your chrome privacy settings except the `Send Do not Track`

</comment><comment><USER5> Yes, in my experience this continued even after unchecking all possible preferences. But last I've tried it was Chrome 17 or so. Try chromium or disallowing a folder or whole root in /robots.txt</comment>


A Very Naughty Little Girl - <AUTHOR> https://blog.longreads.com/2015/03/10/a-very-naughty-little-girl/ <comment><USER2> Damn good read

<comment><USER3> Agreed. However, the title doesn't necessarily draw folks in.

The full title is "A Very Naughty Little Girl. The extraordinary life of Janet Vaughan, who changed our relationship with blood."

Really interesting scientist who pioneered and popularized doing blood transfusions among many other things. I hope more people read about her...</comment></comment>


Remind HN: Hacker News Cologne Meetup is on Thursday, July 5, 7PM #hncgn - <AUTHOR> http://meetu.ps/dZQP6

<comment><USER2> Hope to see a lot of you guys there! Be sure to bring your own projects and lightning talks.</comment>


My Second-Hand CS Degree - <AUTHOR> http://rexstjohn.com/my-second-hand-computer-science-degree/ <comment><USER2> > By the end of my studies, this guide was only about 20 pages of bullet > points.

Would love to see those 20 pages! On the other hand, maybe that defeats the point... Is there advice or resource you might want to pass along to someone considering walking the same path?

<comment><USER3> I'm seconding this. I've got a little bit of coding experience under my belt but I've already gone through 2 fruitless years of schooling and I can no longer do physical work because of an injury gained from my last job. Instead of wasting my time for another 2-3 years getting bits and pieces, I'd be really interested in your condensed essentials!

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Hey rexstjohn, great article. It would be interesting to see those notebooks of yours, I'm sure many people would be interested if you uploaded them to your site, or linked them to HN.

</comment><comment><USER5> I wonder how much we've hobbled our species with Academic Nonsense-Speak.

We need to learn how to teach better and cheaper.

<comment><USER6> The devil is in the details.

"You just divide that shit in half and move the bigger ones to the right and the smaller ones to the left. Then you do that shit over and over again until its sorted."

Between that and an actual working, sane quicksort implementation there is a large number of rakes in the grass for you to step on.

Explaining where these rakes are, what they look like and how to avoid them involves a surprisingly lengthy, tedious discussion which can made much, much shorter and less tedious if you can use words that refer very precisely to things that the teacher expects the student to already know: "Academic Nonsense-Speak".

One can choose to learn things in a sensible order, assimilating each new little tidbit of knowledge with only a little effort as it is supported by all the "Academic Nonsense-Speak" one already knows.

Or one can decide they just need this one thing and nothing else, and shout "how I mine for quicksort? codez in plain english plz" into the void, and get back a sentence or two of plain english like the above; and stumble towards their goal from there by trial and error, cursing loudly and asking for more help and bemoaning people's reluctance to just answer in plain English all the while, as one steps on all the rakes one by one.

I see a lot of this on SO. It probably doesn't even take very much longer, in all. To each their own.

(Mind, I in no way am defending US education costs or textbook publishing practices. That is a very separate discussion to that on jargon.)

<comment><USER5> Where I think your argument falls flat is when you compare good teachers to bad ones.

Good teachers explain things so that students can understand - and explain the rakes.

Bad teachers put up walls of academic nonsense-speak - point at it with a laser - and expect you to know what they are teaching already.

Not all Academic Speech is "nonsense speak". For example - many students really learn the material from supplementary material (good academic speak) vs textbook (nonsense speak).

[https://www.amazon.com/Signals-Systems-Made-Ridiculously- Sim...](https://www.amazon.com/Signals-Systems-Made-Ridiculously- Simple/dp/0964375214)

[https://www.amazon.com/Div-Grad-Curl-All- That/dp/0393925161/](https://www.amazon.com/Div-Grad-Curl-All- That/dp/0393925161/)

These examples show that you explain things well or poorly - explaining things poorly has a direct effect on humanity in the long run.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> What about the advanced mathematics courses that are obligatory in computer science? Calculus, linear algebra, discrete math, probability, boolean algebra, statistics, and others? I see no mention. Lacking these, I doubt one could be accepted for an advanced degree in CS in a reputable university.

<comment><USER8> What about academic writing? Knowing the vocabulary so that you wouldn't be that guy in the room speaking in sentences where you could just use a concept? General understanding how academia works? Raising money, realising the potential of every other person in the room?

People tend to forget that "Computer Science" is _science_. The guy seems to be focusing on something that would be called Software Engineering course in the UK.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Good on you for having the discipline for acually following through with this. As someone once told me, everything that will probably be taught in college is already on the internet somewhere.

I think learning how to learn is one of the most important things for programmers to learn.

</comment><comment><USER10> > Be skeptical if anyone ever tells you that you need a degree to do anything

Everybody learn differently.

I actually learn better in an academic setting. So a degree is actually the best choice for me.

</comment><comment><USER11> _> Rewrite algorithms and core concepts in simple language with lots of swears to make them easier to understand and remember_

This is bit-flipping great, man!

</comment><comment><USER12> Reminds me that I still have a CS master to finish.

Somehow I started the thesis 2 times but never got over the exposé.

Work always gets between me and my degree, haha

</comment><comment><USER13> Fun interesting article - I'd like to apply this to my kids (6 and 4) to keep them from wasting their time.

<comment><USER12> Interesting that Bachelors aren't mandatory for a master in the US.

<comment><USER14> In europe you could do almost the same. Most courses can be exempt. Only the social courses and the final can't. You can do those in 1 year. Masters have this too.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Great article. If only that 30% bit were true about Rudin.</comment>


Startup school emails sent - <AUTHOR>

We just sent out the responses to startup school applications.  If you didn't get one, check your spam folder. Or check here:
http://news.ycombinator.com/susrsvp
Unfortunately even though we have a bigger auditorium this time, we got even more applications, so once again we had to reject lots of people we would have liked to accept. <comment><USER2> I got the email and used the link to RSVP -- but then when I visited the link later, I got the "Sorry to say we didn't accept this application" message. Is this a bug stemming from the application somehow being marked as completed and being taken out of the 'active' list, or some such?

Edit: I _did_ get the "See you there!" message when I RSVP'd as "Yes" initially. It only gave me the rejection message when I went back to /susrsvp after that.

<comment><USER3> huh. I got the message, but when I went to RSVP it immediately said "We're sorry to say we didn't accept this application. We had more than twice as many applications as there are seats in the auditorium, so unfortunately we had to reject a lot of people we would have liked to accept."

So I'm wondering if I should show up or not?

<comment><USER4> Same here. I'm guessing that the link only counts the number of accesses, and pg didn't think that people who either didn't get the acceptance email or didn't apply to go to the link above--hence filling up the count queue.

So those of us on the east coast probably woke up to acceptance emails and rejection rsvps.

<comment><USER5> That sounds like the most logical explanation since it sounds like some people who received acceptance emails saw the acceptance message and then later were seeing the rejection message. I really hope that acceptance emails weren't sent out to people who were rejected.

Either way, I'm sure it'll all get cleared up today once the west coast wakes up.

<comment><USER6> i'm hoping that's the case too... pretty cruel way to treat entrepreneurs if it's not a bug...

<comment><USER7> Yeah, I was super duper excited when I saw that email this morning. It would be pretty cruel if I couldn't go due to an error.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I just booked a (two bed) hotel room at a nearby Hilton ([http://www.hiltongardeninn.com/en/gi/hotels/index.jhtml?ctyh...](http://www.hiltongardeninn.com/en/gi/hotels/index.jhtml?ctyhocn=SFOBBGI)) that is about 1/2 way between SF and Berkeley.

It cost me ~$90/night. If anyone wants to split the room they can have one of the beds for $45/night (comparable to the cheapest couches on airbnb, except you get a bed, maid, towels, and all the amenities of a hotel).

I'm arriving Friday and leaving Monday so, all else being equal, a room mate for all three nights would be preferred.

Email me (address in profile) if you're interested.

</comment><comment><USER9> If you don't mind me asking, how many did you guys end up accepting?

Edit: total number of applications received would be useful, too, if you don't mind revealing it.

<comment><AUTHOR> 840/1581

<comment><USER10> Could you give any background on your sorting algorithm?

What about stats on news.yc participation in the population?

<comment><USER11> Giving it out wouldn't make much sense :)

People will start to chase parameters YC looked at this year but the selection algo will probably change next year.

<comment><USER10> I don't know about that, for instance I suspect that a significant number of accepted applicants aren't news.yc participants at all -- how are you going to game that?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I got an accepted email, yet a denied RSVP link.

"We're sorry to say we didn't accept this application. We had more than twice as many applications as there are seats in the auditorium, so unfortunately we had to reject a lot of people we would have liked to accept."

<comment><USER13> Me too. Is there somebody we should contact about this?

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Would love to come. But can't afford the Europe <=> California plane ticket.

<comment><USER15> I'm limited by money as well. Perhaps startup school scholarships?

<comment><USER16> I'm interested in helping fund scholarships.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I didn't get an email but got an 'Ok see you there' when using the above link. Is this a standard response for everyone or does this mean I'm in?

<comment><AUTHOR> If you saw that it means you're in.

<comment><USER18> So anyone could just hit the rsvp url and submit the form and be in? Is that why tons of us who received acceptance emails are now seeing rejection notices on the rsvp page? Cause our spots were taken by people who happened to be awake and found the rsvp url? Seems more than a little unfair.

Edit: Nevermind, works now. Thanks! <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=871433>

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> PG, will there be wifi? I believe you need credentials to access 'AirBears.' Maybe it is possible to talk to the school to get temporary credentials that could be shared?

<comment><AUTHOR> The CSUA guys are working on it. They seem very organized, so I'm hopeful.

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> Is there a possibility to check by email address? For me it says that "We have no record of an application from you." and didn't get an email...

</comment><comment><USER21> Bummer. I was not accepted. I guess that is what I get for having a non- technical background (attorney). At least it is streamed!

</comment><comment><USER22> I suppose this question will get asked sooner or later:

How are credentials validated? Will we be emailed a personal unique identifier? A printable pass?

Did I forget that I had to submit my driver license number upon joining HN a year ago?

Do tell!

(p.s. thanks HN for being a continued asset to hacker-entrepreneur- extraordinaires)

</comment><comment><USER23> Really looking forward to attending this year! I've spent a lot of time working at other people's startups, as well as working on my own, and these speakers are a great inspiration.

</comment><comment><USER24> I received an acceptance email at firstname.lastname@example.com but have since forgotten my password. My username is darwinrlo. How do I go about getting my password reset?

</comment><comment><USER25> hosting here: <http://www.airbnb.com/groups/startupschool>

</comment><comment><USER26> Around what time do things wrap up on Saturday? Not sure what time I should book my flight...

</comment><comment><USER27> Wish I lived in California :(

</comment><comment><USER28> yes so stoked to get the email this morning. thanks guys. now how to hack my way into the presenter parties?

</comment><comment><USER29> You guys are doing a good job, but you really need to get YC to scale more - you are leaving money on the table for each startup you don't found.

At put together a book with the most common stuff startups need to know (your essays are good, but they don't have a list of recommended lawyers, how to incorporate, etc).

<comment><AUTHOR> We are trying to scale. We funded 8 startups in summer 2005, and 26 this summer. We just have to scale gradually, so that we have time to fix the bottlenecks as we find them.

Also: <http://www.paulgraham.com/angelinvesting.html#f2n>

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> If anybody needs a couch to crash on, I've got one free in SOMA, just a couple of blocks from BART.</comment>


As it built an armored truck empire, GardaWorld took dangerous shortcuts - <AUTHOR> https://projects.tampabay.com/projects/2020/investigations/garda-world/armored-trucks/ <comment><USER2> This is fantastic investigative journalism.

Full credit to those who made it happen, whose actions look likely to save lives.

<comment><USER3> The Tampa Bay Times is a treasure, their reporting is top notch.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> As a cyclist, I try to avoid many professional drivers because I understand them to be under time pressure that often makes them drive dangerously, as this article discusses. I hadn't realized that deferred maintenance could make them even more dangerous. Or that any of these companies would hire someone with a bad driving record.

</comment><comment><USER5> Christ, that CEO looks like scum. I wonder if he ever thinks about the people he's killed.

</comment><comment><USER6> Can DOTs or law enforcement raid a place (like the FBI does) and impound broken trucks?</comment>


Knowing the difference between these 2 lines of bash can save your day - <AUTHOR>

Exhibit 1 (ok):

    find . -name [pattern] -delete
 Exhibit 2 (bad):

    find . - name [pattern] -delete
 It's a good idea to take a quick second look at the command you're about to run, to make sure there aren't any typos. I learned this the hard way today. <comment><USER2> I would advise to always run "find [...] -delete" commands without the -delete option first. You can screw up a find command at multiple places.

<comment><USER3> This is similar to when you run a DELETE statement in SQL. Run it as a select statement first to make sure you have the correct records.

<comment><USER4> If you absolutely have to run a sql command by hand, it is also a good idea to wrap it in a transaction. Check the delete before committing the transaction, or roll back.

<comment><USER5> Totally agree here. The only exception I have had a few times is when the statement would destroy the transaction log and make the server unresponsive. Working in SQL Server a few years back and having to run some very large deletes instead of truncates (mostly because of a poor design and less than ideal schemas), I found it was BAD to do this and so I had to change my ways.

Overall, I like to write SQL scripts that when they go to production are always rerun safe and just overall safe, e.g. Create a transaction, Run expected counts etc then Run the delete, do counts or other queries to insure what happened was what I intended and then commit or rollback. This way my scripts were basically safe in almost all circumstances. Until I hit the crazy DB with huge tables and massively wide tables where my one transaction would trash the transaction log and tempdb and cause SQL to go FU and stop. Ooops. Back to simple select testing it was. Eventually we got the schema's mostly fixed and got a DBA that fixed a lot of stupid on the setup, but still we couldn't run transactions a lot of time because of stupid design choices made way ahead of our involvement.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> This is why we should have syntax highlighting in the shell...

</comment><comment><USER7> I would advise to always run find ... -print before find ... -delete.

<comment><USER8> With gnu find, -print is a default flag, so entirely redundant :)

As a sysadmin with 15ish years of experience, I'd also advise never blindly running a destructive command such as the find -delete without at least first seeing what it is doing.</comment></comment>


Depression as hard on the heart as obesity and cholesterol - <AUTHOR> http://sciencebulletin.org/archives/9394.html <comment><USER3> I would be interested in knowing what 'hard on the heart' means. They mention it can lead to cardiovascular disease, but I understand that to be kind of a vague term.

I am a fairly healthy young guy and I have extremely high blood pressure. Every doctor I've seen has been unable to identify a cause through testing, dietary changes, fluctuation of exercise, etc. When I was younger, I was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder and have had major bouts of depression my whole life. More so since getting a job as a developer. Any data connecting the depression and HBP would be really helpful.

<comment><USER4> I don't have a medical explanation for you, but I can tell you what it feels like. I've experienced many pangs of deep loneliness at times when I feel like I'm by myself and should be out being social. It feels like a tug on your chest. Like there's a void and some gravity is sucking things down into it. Or, I know it sounds corny, but something heavy sitting on your heart while you simultaneously experience anxiety.

When I am deeply lonely like this, in the moment, not just as a general idea, I definitely do feel it as a physical thing. I don't know if it's the same as what they're talking about here, but it seems reasonable that loneliness could be a type of depression, and I strongly believe that regularly experiencing the type of physical feeling described above could do damage to you.

<comment><USER5> I have had this feeling in my chest for over a decade now.

<comment><USER6> Do you continue to have the feeling despite attempts to go out and be social?

<comment><USER5> Yes, this feeling is relatively constant in my life. There are times where it is more noticeable though. Usually getting lost in the moment is the best way, but that is hard to do on purpose

<comment><USER6> I don't know if I can relate. When it really bothers me, I try to do something about it, go out, have fun. Surround myself with people whose company I enjoy.

Sometimes the feeling persists. Its usually when I try the above and fail though. When its not satisfying, when the people I'm with are just kinda whatever. -shrugs-

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> From the paper (DEEX - "Depressed mood and exhaustion"):

"Nonetheless, adding DEEX to a risk score based on classical risk factors resulted in only nonsignificant improvement of mortality risk prediction."

Regarding the causal relationship:

"Although not a proof of causality, in general, depressed subjects are more likely to cluster self-harming lifestyle behaviors and may be less likely to adhere to prescribed medication."

To put things in context it is also worth noting that, except in old age, a big increase in the risk of death at any given point of time translates into a very small reduction in life expectancy. See for example [http://joshmitteldorf.scienceblog.com/2012/11/10/mortality-a...](http://joshmitteldorf.scienceblog.com/2012/11/10/mortality- and-life-expectancy/)

</comment><comment><USER8> Recent research suggests that chronic inflammation may cause depression [1]. Therefore the root cause may be inflammation, leading to both depression and heart disease. (Of course biology is never that simple and there are probably loops and feedbacks.)

[1] Summary: [http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/05/chronic- psychitis/](http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/05/chronic-psychitis/)

<comment><USER9> Also, high homocysteine _may_ lead to depression, [1], and is linked to cardiovascular disease, [2].

[1] [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17541043](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17541043)

[2] [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4326479/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4326479/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Considering how often depression leads to obesity I wonder how many are getting a double wammy?

<comment><USER11> This should be controlled for.

<comment><USER10> I assumed it was in the study, but in real life there would be many suffering the negatives of both.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> That's exactly what my cardiologist explained to me after my heart attack (myocardial infarction) -- that cholesterol and obesity account (in his anecdotal way of speaking) for only half of cases. I was in great shape at the time (hiked > 4 miles in hills every day), but very stressed and depressed.

<comment><USER7> Actually, the paper this article is based on suggests the opposite:

"Only a minority of 5.6% [of those who later experienced a lethal CVD event] were free of any risk factor. This challenges claims that CVD events commonly occur in persons who have not been exposed to a major risk factor." (where the risk factors include high cholesterol, obesity, hypertension, smoking and diabetes)

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> What most people forget is that mental diseases are associated with physical diseases. Depression is positively associated with Type 2 diabetes, oral cancer, psoriasis, arthritis [1]. Stress is positively associated with poor sleep. Anxiety is positively associated with coronary heart disease. When you are in poor mental health (stress, anxiety, depression), it will impact your heart, digestive system and immune system, and vice-versa.

Source [1]: [http://outcomereference.com/outcomes/5-Depression](http://outcomereference.com/outcomes/5-Depression)

</comment><comment><USER14> As a chronically depressed person, I guess I'm in trouble.

<comment><USER15> Exercise, sleep, meditation, diet, hobbies.

<comment><USER5> If only it was that easy

<comment><USER16> No one said it was easy. But, sometimes - if you're not _too_ depressed - <USER2> you manage enough of these enough of the time (possibly with the help of a good friend nagging you) you can get enough of a feedback loop going to self- sustain and maintain a healthy living pattern long enough to sink in.

<comment><USER5> Sometimes sure. I agree, these healthy habits are prerequisites when you find yourself more depressed than usual.

But sometimes these healthy habits aren't going to be enough.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I thought cholesterol was said not to be a cause of heart disease after all?

<comment><USER12> Some study from last year (I don't have the citation) stated that _ingesting_ cholesterol (i.e. eggs) does not lead to plaque buildup. It's eating saturated fats that cause the body to produce cholesterol that then builds up in the arteries. tl;dr worry about the bacon, not the eggs.

<comment><USER18> On the other hand:

'Cambridge University academics have looked over previous studies on saturated fat and discovered there is no link to heart disease '

[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/sarah- knapton/1070397...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/sarah- knapton/10703970/No-link-found-between-saturated-fat-and-heart-disease.html)

In view of the fate of several consensus views in the past (especially on the subject of nutrition) where they have been shown to be wrong, the tough conclusion is that one has to decide for oneself by exploring the peer- reviewed literature.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Depression also has been linked to worse medication adherence following cardiac incidents which could have an impact on mortality. Check out the SADHART trial.

</comment><comment><USER20> Interesting observation, although there's also a lot of studies published that have shown a strong correlation between depression and obesity, which in turn is strongly linked to heart disease. I wonder if the researchers have controlled for this confounding factor somehow? (haven't had time to read the actual research paper yet)

</comment><comment><USER21> I'm fucked then. I eat shit and I'm depressed!

<comment><USER13> Eat better, exercise, go out

<comment><USER22> ... and stop drinking any alcohol. That has really solved my depression problems. A few drinks and the next day I feel at least a little sad and anxious.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> How high cholesterol level is hard for my heart?

<comment><USER24> a case of conflation of lipids with all the subclasses of lipoproteins into single term "cholesterol"

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> Especially if your government doesn't give you access to a therapist b/c your health care system is a bad joke or if you don't want to suffer side-effects due to anti-depressants, then do :

1\. Mindful meditation [free] -> Daily practice (30+ minutes)

John Kabat-Zinn [0] masters the link between science and meditation and has published very valuable books (including guided/audio meditation exercises) [1]. There are a couple of scientific studies which prove effectiveness [2] [3].

2\. LSD [$5-10/dose + $25/multi-use test kit] -> One-time experience (every 6 months max.)

LSD however requires one to literally read/understand/know everything about the substance before applying it (minimum literature: "The psychedelic explorer's guide" by Fadiman). Also, order a test kit and test before you ingest. Certain "edge cases"/people should not try it and educating yourself about everything will allow you to decide if it's a good idea in your case or not. In addition, you may be able to access your spiritual dimension, which increases quality of life even further (it is less immediate with meditation).

You may combine micro-dosing LSD with meditation for accessing the meditative state easier (it's quite a challenge for depressed people).

[0] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Kabat- Zinn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Kabat-Zinn)

[1] [https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4180277/Mindful_Way_Through...](https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4180277/Mindful_Way_Through_Depression_- _Guided_Meditation_Practices)

[2] [http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2011/01/eight-weeks- to...](http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2011/01/eight-weeks-to-a-better- brain)

[3] [http://www.vox.com/2015/8/27/9214697/meditation-brain- neuros...](http://www.vox.com/2015/8/27/9214697/meditation-brain-neuroscience)

<comment><USER26> At the moment I am trying to help a workmate hang in there and get life back on track after a period of intense depression. I am not going to advise her to take LSD or to meditate, even if 'hipster' style with this 'mindful' nonsense.

Normal people who have happy, functional lives do not meditate or take micro doses of LSD.

With all drugs the underlying condition is important, with hallucinogenic substances that usually means the base mood - happy or sad - gets amplified. That means the risk of a bad trip. My workmate has tried coping with 'party drugs' but the comedown is horrible - more depression.

I am doing well with my workmate, we do things like eating, walking, cycling and talking, i.e. doing stuff. For a laugh though I might tell her she needs LSD and minfulness bullshit.

<comment><USER27> > Normal people who have happy, functional lives do not meditate or take micro > doses of LSD.

Normal people who don't have a cold don't need to take cough syrup.

It's precisely because being depressed is an atypical state that you need to take special approaches to deal with it.

<comment><USER26> As if cough syrup works anyway - any comparison between getting a cold virus and being depressed is a bit lame. Very poor.

<comment><USER27> Normal people who aren't ill don't need special treatments. Is it clearer now?

<comment><USER26> Well... I believe depression is actually quite normal, everyone experiences depression (not to confused with sadness) at some stage or other.

What is not normal is sitting in front of some app, taking micro doses of LSD and 'meditating' in some stereotyped new-age fake-hipster-American way.

For normal depression for normal people it is possible to meditate without the LSD and the feigned posture. What you do is you go outside the front door and walk, ride a bike, go for a jog or go for a swim. Sure these normal activities do not have the pretence of the believe system that goes with mindful-LSD- taking but, for normal people with normal depression (including the suicidal thoughts), normal healthy activities can help too, e.g. a gentle stroll with no funny meds needed.

<comment><USER28> That you describe mindfulness meditation as "new-age" suggests to me that you aren't familiar with it, and are dismissing it out of hand rather than thoughtfully. The new-age movement has a spiritual element to it, mindfulness meditation does not. The complete, entire point of mindfulness meditation is learning to be present and aware of the workings of your mind. Real-time self awareness is not "new-age fake hipster", it's a valuable skill, particularly for depressed people. Having this improved self awareness can include recognizing when you become relatively more or less sad, which can lead you towards or away from various situations and behaviors.

I think you're reacting negatively because of the commenter's association with LSD. That's not representative of the mindfulness practice in general, so if that feels a bit too "Berkeley" for you then don't throw away the baby with the bath water. Personally, I've never tried LSD, and although I'm a bit curious about it, I've read accounts of people being mentally crippled for years by a bad trip - not worth the risk.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> Well, shit. Bye, hackers ;P

</comment><comment><USER30> What is depression?

<comment><USER31> Morose music, waking up late, black clothes, lots of cigarettes and coffee, etc.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> I read that as "Depression is as hard on the heart as it is on obesity and cholesterol" and was confused for a moment...

</comment><comment><USER33> My heart often tells me when something is amiss. For example, if I'm about to buy excessive amounts of junk food and alcohol I sometimes feel a twinge emanating from the chest region. I acknowledge and interpret this as my brain's _anticipation_ of the price that will be paid.

But what if things have gone more badly wrong? If the heart seems to say one thing whilst ideas (the ones I can name) say something else? One way to resolve the conflict is simply to censor the bodily signals. (Fear can do this sort of thing.)

Yet there are physiological consequences, because the brain has two roles: (1) to run the mind, (2) to regulate the body. And withdrawing attention from bodily signals has consequences for health, I guess due to a concomitant weakening of the controlling function.</comment>


Chase Bank drops Windows Phone support citing lack of users - <AUTHOR> http://www.neowin.net/news/chase-bank-drops-windows-phone-support-citing-lack-of-users

<comment><USER2> Let's compare the anguished cries of "Windows Ecosystem" people encountering this to the anguished cries of Linux fanboys in 2001 when encountering IE6-only web sites.</comment>


What the AngelList Debate Means for the Future of Startup Investing - <AUTHOR> http://www.readwriteweb.com/start/2011/03/what-the-angellist-debate-means-for-the-future-of-startup-investing.php?sms_ss=hackernews&at_xt=4d6db8db3a616a30%2C0 <comment><USER2> I personally don't understand Bryce's action. If he doesn't believe in social proof, he should just invest independent of who else is investing. It seems a bit drastic to leave the service.

Also, Angel List doesn't push any investment philosophy, it just gives investors access to deals. As an investor, I would think that access to deal and information flow would be valuable assets.</comment>


Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes (2013) - <AUTHOR> http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-22751415

<comment><USER2> Posted already :) [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5817728](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5817728)

But still someone new might find it interesting.

</comment><comment><USER3> Old news story is old.

<comment><USER3> To the idiots who downvoted my comment, this place is called Hacker _News_ for a reason. How would you like it if your nightly news broadcast re-ran stories from last year?</comment></comment>


SF to NY in 45 Minutes? Evacuated Tube Transport.  - <AUTHOR> http://thebat-sf.com/2013/06/03/san-francisco-to-new-york-in-45-mins-maybe/

<comment><USER2> How do you draw a vacuum over that much volume? How much effort is required to keep a vacuum over that much volume?

Do you have to inspect every single joint (which I assume would be welded) for air-tightness?

How do you keep the tubular structure from buckling? Do you have buckle- arrestors every so often along the length?</comment>


Morgan Stanley bought 63M Facebook shares ($2.3B) to create a floor around $38 - <AUTHOR> http://ca.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idCABRE84I01620120519 <comment><USER2> The Wikipedia page on the "greenshoe" gives more detail on how Morgan was able to safely buy these shares: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenshoe>

Brief summary: Morgan oversells the offering. Facebook gives Morgan the right (but not the obligation) to cover its short position by buying shares at the offering price. This is a defensive maneuver.

If the stock pops, Morgan buys the shares from Facebook at the offering price in order to cover its short. Otherwise they'd have to purchase at the market price (which would cause them to lose money). This is the hoped for scenario.

In the unexpected case, where the stock's price trends below the offering price, Morgan covers its short by buying shares directly from the market (instead of from Facebook). This stabilizes the price of the stock at the offering price and ensures that public investors don't go underwater soon after the offering.

It sounds like there are some complicated maneuvers that the underwriter can pull to make some money off the greenshoe (it's not all flowers and sunshine: [http://dealbreaker.com/2012/05/facebook-ipo-goes-nowhere- in-...](http://dealbreaker.com/2012/05/facebook-ipo-goes-nowhere-in-exciting- fashion/)) but this particular implementation seems relatively good to Facebook and the public investors.

</comment><comment><USER3> A lot of misunderstanding about the greenshoe...

It's really simple: The IPO sells X+Y shares, where X is the big IPO number of shares and Y is the "over-allotment".

If the stock trades above the IPO price, the money from selling Y shares is given to the IPO company along with the rest of the money from selling X shares.

If the stock drops below the IPO price, the underwriters start buying back (up to Y shares * IPOprice) using the money from the initial over-allotment.

It is one of the few times outright price manipulation is allowed (which should be a completely different discussion, and likely why MS declined comment.)

<comment><USER4> "It is one of the few times outright price manipulation is allowed (which should be a completely different discussion"

I'm curious to know what arguments are in favour of it. If they're incorrectly pricing the IPO, surely they should suffer for it and adjust their pricing models and strategies rather than be allowed to manipulate their way around what's pretty much their own mistake?

I don't know much about how companies go public but it sounds like a good portion of the stock is issued to "investors" at or below the IPO price who then immediately go on to sell that stock to the public when trading is opened? So the downside of pricing the IPO too low is the company won't receive as much for the shares as they could have. Presumably just issuing the shares directly to the public during the IPO seems like the way to capture the best price? Is the problem that the exchange doesn't allow for the issuing of shares, only the trading of shares, so somebody needs to own them first? I'm sure there's a good reason why but what is it?

<comment><USER5> Simply put, the argument is that the the 'price' of price manipulation is one the market (read: the purveyors of the exchange who get to make the rules) are willing to allow in exchange for an orderly, stable market. IPOs are hectic times, and they want some stability while the dust settles.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I love it. Stock pops after IPO, greedy bankers taking the company money. Stock doesn't pop, overhyped failure. I wonder what a successful IPO would look like. Price doesn't change, no trading volume?

<comment><USER7> To me it all seems like part of the same problem: some banker pulls a number out of his ass as "the price". There should be an auction or market of some other kind to determine the price, because... well, markets are a pretty good mechanism for determining prices, usually much better than any one individual or small group.

<comment><USER8> that is what happens during the roadshow, which led to the price going up in the last few days and more shares being issues because of demand

funny that Google tried the auction, ended up getting wall st against them and colluding to lower the price. Facebook co-opts all the big name banks as underwriters and gets a near-perfect opening price.

<comment><USER9> "gets a near-perfect opening price."

If Morgan-Stanley was propping the stock up, then that's strong evidence it wasn't a near-perfect opening price, but that it was too high.

<comment><USER10> Which makes it near-perfect for Facebook (more capital from the sale), but less-so for shareholders, particularly those looking to make a buck on a quick flip.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Anyone know if FB employees with shares can sell them immediately after the IPO or do they have to wait after a certain period?

<comment><USER12> There is a 6 month lockup period.

<comment><USER13> 3 months in this case[1]

[1] [http://www.inc.com/eric-markowitz/facebook-going-public- inve...](http://www.inc.com/eric-markowitz/facebook-going-public-investors- react-to-ipo.html), Ctrl+F for "90 days"

<comment><USER14> Gotta dump those shares before the tax code changes next year.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Single page: [http://ca.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idCABRE84I0162012...](http://ca.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idCABRE84I01620120519?sp=true)

</comment><comment><USER16> Is this another way of saying that Facebook isnt really worth $38?

<comment><USER17> They are to the underwriters that defended them at $38. : )

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> From the article: "The firm did this by tapping into a 63 million share over- allotment option, or greenshoe, according to sources familiar with the deal."

The title of your post is inaccurate. No one knows for sure how many shares MS bought during the initial day of trading.

For a full breakdown of the first day of trading, check out Zerohedge's analysis:

[http://www.zerohedge.com/news/facebook-complete-forensic- pos...](http://www.zerohedge.com/news/facebook-complete-forensic-post-mortem)

<comment><USER4> Very interesting. I'd love to know how to interpret this: [http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/im...](http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2012/05/FB%205.gif)

<comment><USER18> [http://www.nanex.net/aqck/QTSChartExplain/QTSequencer_Basic....](http://www.nanex.net/aqck/QTSChartExplain/QTSequencer_Basic.html)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> To be honest. I am not that worried if some investment bank got a problem, because Facebook manages to get so much money from the IPO. At least this time, the company which creates true value wins. Unfortunately, in most cases company in first day of trading price rise significantly so it potentially raised less then it was possible.

</comment><comment><USER20> I'm confused by this "greenshoe" business.

To prevent the price of something from falling, you can:

(1) Increase its demand.

(2) Decrease its supply.

Which one does the "greenshoe" do?

<comment><USER21> The greenshoe increases the demand. MS placed a 38.00 bid with an enormous size, so if you were to look at the live feed, you would have seen something like: Bid: 38.00 x 9999999 Ask: 38.01 x 1234

<comment><USER22> I feel like its worth adding, for those who don't trade. If the stocks goes down, you are looking for short/long terms supports it may [temporarily] stop on. Those are usually backed up by either history of the stock (recent supports) or psychological barriers (like a round number). In situation of a stock with couple hours of history those will be psychological like number 38. Then a trader looks how much support there is on certain level. In this example there were about $300MM (IIRC) worth of stock somebody asked to buy. So if you ready to sell because there is a panic and stock does not want to go up, you see so much cheddar [of support at $38] that someone is willing to buy that you tell yourself: "there is no chance someone will sell so much stock, so it won't go lower". So you don't sell at this point of time. Less people want to sell, more demand for the stock. Stock then stops or goes up, BUT at least the fall was indefinitely defended.

But again, depends what decisions big fish will do over this weekend, Monday morning you may see shit on $38, or if they offer plenty for sell at any price, you may see a gap down like start trading at $36.

Hope this helps.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Did the investors get the valuation correct? Is it really a $100 B company ?. I am reading through the prospectus now. [http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1326801/0001193125120...](http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1326801/000119312512034517/d287954ds1.htm)

</comment><comment><USER24> I suspect they will keep this up next week. They will also work out a deal with facebook for facebook to buyback lots of the shares that Morgan Stanley is buying. That way the stock price can go up while the market cap is going down.

</comment><comment><USER25> We know it was MS that's supporting them at that psychologically important $38 figure, but that $2.3B figure is just speculation. Still, I'm sure there are some very nervous traders this weekend over at MS. Would not be surprised to see a lot of shorts on stocks like Yelp, Zynga as a hedge.

What a disaster this IPO was (for the banks, not for facebook). Though, I'm sure the people at Facebook aren't exactly happy with the way things went and all the (unfair?) negative press / scrutiny that they will receive now.

<comment><USER26> I honestly can't see them caring a whole lot. Scrutiny and bad press can only impact your stock prices in the short term; in the long run they'll revert to the mean. If Zuck and co. feel like facebook is a fundamentally strong bet, then they'll be inclined to ignore fluctuations in the price and look to the long term a la Amazon.

Also, Zuck owns 57% of the voting shares, so it's not like he _really_ gives a damn what the traders think.

<comment><USER22> Ok and this is what I don't get. Usually companies that are traded publicly have responsibilities toward stockholders to do anything in the power (reasonably) for the stock to be going up. That the simplicity of a stock market - no investor is willing to lock its money knowing a company is not willing to grow.

Now, if you have one guy (that to average person is called a "hacker in the hoodie"), how do you trust a stock? What if there is some terrible decision he is about to make and the board can do shit to stop him because he has the majority of vote.

Basically, fatum of all stockholders money in this stock lays within one single guy and his 57% of vote. Can you imagine, hypothetically what would happen if tomorrow Mr. Zuckerberg is hit by the bus? ? Yes, I am sure they have backup plan for the backup plan in situations like that, but cant you imagine what kind of signal would that send to media? The stock would dive like a scubadiver on a deep-dive mission!

<comment><USER27> The bus factor is priced in, as is the assumption that Facebook will dramatically increase its revenue in the long run. If Facebook would not grow anymore, the stock would instantly collapse.

<comment><USER22> netrus, I don't think it works like that. You just described a crystal ball. You sure they know everything that is in this stock? Would there be a justify reason behind something called "Stock exchange" if everyone would know everything in the future?

And what do you mean by instantly? Like the first day or first year, or what? because as far as I remember everywhere I talked with bankers, everyone from teen that just turned 18 to a 95 years old grandpa withdrawing last savings were going to buy Facebook stock. But this is not what Friday has showed to us. 2 things; either: a) entire world change its mind overnight (I spoke with banker as late as last Thursday), or b) there was so much selling happening, that if the world was buying, it wasn't just enough to build demand and push the stock up. I go with gate #2, considering how much underwriters were willing to buildup on $38. A $300,000,000 worth dam!! I guarantee you, plenty of big fish is shitting in pants right now. To many of them this weekend, before Monday opening, is not a chilling out and relaxing time. I think by next Friday you will see some spectacular action on this stock.

Further, I think that Zynga, Groupon, Zillow, Linkedin, ZipCar, Pandora and others -- they are all assuming dramatically increase in revenue. But yet they are all below (some significant like Groupon or Zynga) their IPO price.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> Market Place has more info about Morgan Stanley, the underwriter, supporting the Facebook stock: [http://www.marketplace.org/topics/business/weekly-wrap- what-...](http://www.marketplace.org/topics/business/weekly-wrap-what- happened-facebooks-stock)

</comment><comment><USER29> A well written article; interesting enough in spite of not having any quotable sources. A more accurate title might have been "Reuters shut-out; Facebook IPO bankers remain mum"

</comment><comment><USER30> I wonder who the counterparties were.

I'd be willing to bet there're some very happy algorithmic traders out there right now.

</comment><comment><USER31> I guess the "trading glitches" were not in place for Morgan Stanley's buy orders.

</comment><comment><USER32> As I said a month ago.

May 17 is a terrible time to IPO. Facebook will be fighting against a falling stock market. Operation twist is about to end, and there are a lot of believers in "Sell in May and go away."

<comment><USER33> I've heard there are also a lot of believers in "Buy in May, Hip Hip Hooray!". I think both of our believer sayings have about the same amount of credibility...

<comment><USER32> Sell in may is one of the few statistically proven effects that continues to this day.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> Insiders were selling their Facebook shares pre-IPO.</comment>