Stripe – Apple Pay - <AUTHOR> https://stripe.com/blog/apple-pay <comment><USER2> I'm so disappointed that the 5s doesn't support Apple Pay for in-app purchases of physical goods (the payments product Stripe partners with Apple to provide).

I've yet to discover any reason why except marketing/branding – ostensibly consumers would be confused that they can use their 5s for purchases through apps but not in retail stores, due to the lack of NFC.

From a technical perspective, there doesn't seem to be anything holding the 5s back. The A7 has a secure element/"enclave" like the A8 (a cryptographically secure place on the SoC to store payment tokens, fingerprints, and the like), and the 5s has an A7 and the TouchID sensor.

EDIT: The secure element is in fact distinct from the secure enclave. agnokapathetic explains below.

<comment><USER3> The technical reason is that while the iPhone 5s has the Secure Enclave co- Processor (SEP), it does not have an Apple Pay Secure Element (SE).

The SEP is a ARM TrustZone-like separate processor running a stripped down L4 derived microkernel. This manages encryption keys, the secure boot-loader and OS update signing.

The Apple Pay Secure Element is a separate chip which runs a Java-Card-OS. "Cards" in the java-card-OS are cryptographically "personalized" by the payment network (VISA, AMEX, MasterCard) with per-device keys and the device personal account number (DPAN)--the tokenized device only credit card.

This is the same java-card + payment network personalization that physical chip-and-pin cards, Google Wallet and most other NFC payments use.

So my guess is that the Payment Networks were not comfortable using the Secure Enclave Processor and preferred to reuse the same technology used by chip-and- pin, with a separate Secure Element chip.

Source: [https://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/iOS_Security_Guide_Oct_20...](https://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/iOS_Security_Guide_Oct_2014.pdf)

<comment><USER2> Thanks for clearing that up. Assuming the Secure Enclave has a level of security comparable to the Secure Element, it'd be nice if the payment networks would trust it, but they're so notoriously conservative...and understandably want everyone using the same base tech to keep complexity lower.

I think the bulk of my disappointment is that I upgraded to a 5s anticipating I wouldn't be totally shut out of Apple's (at the time rumored) impending launch of a payments product. Oh well, at least we get TouchID auth for apps.

<comment><USER4> _I upgraded to a 5s anticipating I wouldn 't be totally shut out of Apple's impending launch of..._

I thought Apple was pretty _notoriously_ bad about this sort of thing?

<comment><USER5> The iPhone 5 is fully supported under iOS 8.1, as far as what is technically possible (no touchID, for example).

Find out which flagship Android phones have an official 5.0 ROM and let us know.

<comment><USER6> There is no support for T-Mobile's Wi-Fi Calling on the iPhone 5, even though its almost identical to the iPhone 5C.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> "Apple Pay doesn't replace In-App Purchases. You should use Apple Pay when charging for physical goods (such as groceries, clothing, and appliances) or for services (such as club memberships, hotel reservations, and tickets for events). You should continue to use In-App Purchases to charge for virtual goods such as premium content in your app."

Anyone understand why this is? Is there a reason I shouldn't let my users use Apple Pay to buy the freemium digital content on my website?

I don't quite understand what capitalized In-App Purchases means...oh, maybe Apple Pay is only possible from an app, not from a mobile web browser? Is that true? (But like, why?)

<comment><USER8> Everyone here talks about Apple's "30% cut" (which of course is nowhere near what Apple actually gets, as people don't take into account costs for the high transaction costs on these small purchases), but as someone who runs an App Store (and who has had to on numerous occasions here on Hacker News dispel the weirdly-pervasive myth that Apple makes meaningful money from their App Store, something trivially disprovable using Apple's earning statements), I will assert the difference is more to do with license transfer and fraud mitigation, two things users and developers alike often fail to realize are either hard or even necessary until after it is too late.

In-App purchases are tied to your Apple ID and can be recovered and reactivated by a receipt API on other devices you are logged in to: Apple wants you to use their API for this purpose to guarantee that buying new devices will not lead to the user having lost a ton of money in their software investments. Some developers in the Cydia ecosystem sell things themselves, and they have either draconian or broken device license transfer restrictions. Users still complain to me, even though I had nothing to do with their payment. For Apple, the issue is even worse, as it could keep a user from buying a new device (where Apple actually makes money: anything that stands in the way of this Apple will not tolerate).

Physical goods are also very easy to build fraud contros for, due to the requirement of a physical shipping address; the same is not true of digital goods: Apple has spent a long time building out fraud management for their digital goods sales, and I doubt they want the Apple Pay platform to suddenly be inundated with tons of "app developers" (a class of developer Apple clearly doesn't trust very much) to make people start to think Apple's app ecosystem is a massive source of credit fraud. Apple also likes separating user data from developers: you don't know your customers, only Apple does; for a physical good, that is obviously an impossible separation to maintain, but for digital goods I think they would rather continue to have all purchases gated through them so that all developers see are anonymized identifiers.

<comment><USER9> Hey, I didn't want to suggest it's about squeezing money. You are certainly correct, Apple is much more directly involved with in-app purchases, so they also take much more ownership and responsibility for it. (Though I would also argue that this has a lot to do with the status quo. In-app purchases were quite new and there were no expectations about how to deal with them and who gets what. Credit card transactions are old and established and to get in on them you have to be competitive when it comes to fees and at least as convenient.)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I'm very impressed with how quickly Stripe has been able to get Apply Pay integration as part of their platform. I'll be looking into it for my own apps.

<comment><USER11> They were a launch partner when Apple announced Apple Pay. They most likely had advanced knowledge and have been working on integration for a long time.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> I know this is a long shot, but will it ever be possible to use Apple Pay with Checkout from a webpage?

<comment><USER13> Generate a visual code on checkout screen >> Scan with app + camera >> Apple pay.

Or use "continuity" on Yosemite if it is Mac > iOS

<comment><USER12> Sure, that would be one way to hack around it. I'm wondering, specifically, if Stripe Checkout[1] will ever gain Apple Pay support. Presumably it's up to Apple to expose the relevant API to javascript.

[1]: [https://stripe.com/checkout](https://stripe.com/checkout)

<comment><USER7> Yeah, this is what I meant by my confusing question above.

<comment><USER14> One day they'll probably let you enter your user id and password to get it started then scan your fingerprint on a device to confirm. Why not?

<comment><USER15> my only issue with this has to do with the occasional lapse in recognition of the touch ID. if it can't read your fingerprint several times, it asks for your password code. touch ID is of course not theft-proof, but initially it's a slightly greater obstacle than a simple numeric code.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> So, what is the fallback for users on non-apple-pay devices? Just normal "enter/save your billing information"?

<comment><USER17> If you use Stripe-iOS it should auto fall back to a card number entry box.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> What happened to Stripe Bitcoin payments? [https://stripe.com/bitcoin](https://stripe.com/bitcoin)

<comment><USER19> They just enrolled me in the demo two or three days ago. It's pretty slick (well, very slick), it's just that their libraries don't yet support it (I think the API is going to change). It was very easy to add to Checkout, though.</comment></comment>


France's Sector-Leading Technology Companies - <AUTHOR> http://www.rudebaguette.com/2014/10/17/tweetstorm-frances-international-sector-leading-technology-companies/ <comment><USER2> I am surprised to see my employer mentioned in this list of startups. We are a 30y+ 3B USD company. Gemalto was created in 2006 by the merger of Gemplus and Axalto, it does not make us a startup!</comment>


Stuffing a Tesla Drivetrain into a 1981 Honda Accord - <AUTHOR> https://jalopnik.com/this-glorious-madman-stuffed-a-p85-tesla-drivetrain-int-1823461909 <comment><USER2> To anyone who isn't aware, there is a huge world of car hacking. There is of course the basics like getting an expensive air filter (pointless), and it goes all the way up to welding up your own custom car. The more common mods are things like tuning your suspension, replacing your engine with a more powerful one, or upgrading your differentials. It takes a wide range of skills, including welding, machining, panel beating, plumbing, and electrical. You can very easily nerd out on this.

<comment><USER3> > You can very easily nerd out on this.

It's also a good money suck. Pretty easy to spend a year's pay on car mods that _at best_ do not regress safety features nor increase your rate of speeding tickets. At worst you're looking at safety issues and additional tickets (cost).

Not judging — people have different hobbies and are free to spend their money how they see fit. If you're looking for frugal hobbies, though, this isn't it.

(Now, shadetree home car maintenance — that's a frugal hobby in a similar vein. It's a nice break from the keyboard and requires some of the same skills.)

<comment><USER4> I'd love to do a lot more to my car, but I live in an apartment in a crowded part of the city; no garage, no place for tools.

Is there anything like the equivalent of a commissary kitchen, but for cars? Like a garage with tools where I could rent it for a couple of days, and then go work on it with their tools, etc?

<comment><USER5> Profile says you're in Seattle. If so, check out The Shop ([http://theshopclubs.com](http://theshopclubs.com)). It s a bit more than just a garage to rent, but among the various services it offers to members one of them is the ability to rent their bays with a car lift to work on your car.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Considering they built a new subframe and raised it so much, this is really more like a custom Tesla/volt frankencar that is wearing the body shell of an Accord as a hat.

<comment><USER7> The gasser look really does not suit the first-gen Accord.

<comment><USER8> Agreed. Aesthetics are always subjective but to me it looks terrible.

<comment><USER9> Ha came here to see if anyone else'd posted this. I really like what an Accord looks like, also because my parents had one in my childhood, but making it high like this one just makes it look weird and ugly to me.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> One day, when money is not an issue and I have the time to tinker all day long, I'd love, I mean LOVE, to build my own electric Saab 9000. I'm a big fan of the early, non GM Saabs and currently own two. For some unknown reason, I've always had it in my head that an electrified 9000 would be the most perfect car every possible. I understand and am comfortable knowing I am alone on this. Buy lordy, one big lottery win and I know the first thing I'm getting myself!

<comment><USER11> I'm not a big car guy, but I am nostalgic for my 9000. Like a true Saab it was in many ways a strangely put together car, but it had a hard to describe feel of being well engineered and a great ride. I owned a 900 too, and had Saab still existed I would most likely still be driving a Saab today.

Perhaps the new Chinese owners jump onto the electric wave and need a good base vehicle? One can dream!

At least an electric 9000 wouldn't have the balance chain chewing up the engine block ;)

<comment><USER10> It's such a solid car. Over engineered I dare say but such a lovely thing to drive. And personally, I still think it looks quite contemporary amongst cars of today. My father had a 900 and I feel that was my gateway Saab as I adored that thing. In a way I don't really feel for any other cars. I like cars, but often can give or take. Saabs make me feel all funny. Perhaps I should see someone about it... Must admit, I've never had any issues with the balance chain. After a head gasket (that was skimmed, fixed and happy for another 80k) I had a heater matrix go and a radiator, then water pump but I put all these down to the gasket going. Another brilliant thing with the ones of my era, is they are designed to be worked on. No job was ever that much of a pain.

<comment><USER11> Saab designs have always been timeless (mostly pre-GM of course) and still look great today.

The easiest fix for the balance chain issue on 9000s is to simply remove it. It's a whole subsystem only there to counter vibrations for smoother engine operation. This speaks to your point about over-engineering, but is also an illustration of the kind of design that makes the car feel so good.

<comment><USER10> My daily driver, a now 20 year old 9000 just turned 225k miles. I fully expect it to do another 225k!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt4fGIoVMpM](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt4fGIoVMpM)

Another fun swap: a Tesla drive unit and Volt batteries into a Lotus Evora. Basically recreating the original Tesla Roadster's bigger counterpart.

Volt+Tesla is an increasingly popular swap because the Volt batteries are easier to manage and have a more convenient form factor. Plus, there are more of them available from recyclers.

<comment><USER13> The main reason why is volt packs are dirt cheap vs tesla packs commanding a huge premium because DIY powerwall guys snatch them up.

<comment><USER14> So, why aren't DIY Powerwall guys snapping up Volt battery packs? I can see two reasons to DIY a Powerwall: Price and to work around Tesla's stupid rules about where/how Powerwall can be installed. Seems like you'd want the cheapest batteries you could get if price is your motivating force in building a DIY Powerwall.

<comment><USER13> Volt pack is hard to split up to usable voltage. Tesla pack splits in to easy to manage voltages because of it's module design. BMS is also fully decoded on Tesla modules so get to keep safety aspects.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Sounds a lot like the urban legend I read years (and years) ago, about the son of a Porsche dealer who dropped a Porsche Spyder engine into a Volkswagon Bug. According to the story, he had a lot of fun rolling up next to muscle cars at stop lights, and then watching them disappear in his rear view mirror.

<comment><USER16> Back in University, we had one guy in the dorms who said his Uncle Bill put a Miata engine in an MGB. We were contemplating how that would even remotely be possible; looking up pictures of forums boards of both engine bays.

"Well I guess, if you remove all of x, y and z and made custom mounts..."

We later learned this guy ones one of those bullshitters who would lie about everything; told us he was in the national guard and hat to shoot rubber bullets at people looting stores after tornadoes. He was our age and had one of those civilian IDs they give military family members.

Next semester we ask the guy if his uncle will bring his MGB to the car show we were putting together. "Oh he sold it." .... right ...

Anytime we had some crazy idea for our cars. "I wonder if I could convert my mom's Maxima to a 5spd," the respond would always be, "I BET UNCLE BILL COULD DO IT!"

<comment><USER17> In the UK they do put K-series[0] engines into the MGB.

[0] The K-series is the descendant of the T16, which is the descendant of the M-series, which is the descendant of the O2-series, which is the descendant of the O-series, which is the engine that we /designed/ for the MGB, but never was put into the MGB before it was canceled. The O-Series instead went into a bunch of work vans and other hateful boxes instead.

So he might have sort of been right. But he was probably still a royal bullshitter.

<comment><USER18> >The K-series is the descendant of the T16

Descendant only in the fact it came later. The engines share nothing from memory. The K series was an all new small capacity engine (1400cc) on release. Compared to the O, M and L (diesel) it's a fully aluminium block and head with steel damp liners. The K series had its bore and stroke upped to bring it to 1800cc after launch, along with adding variable valve control with the VCC engine.

The two engines share very little in common, the most frequent thing being they're normally both attached to a a PG1 gearbox.

Source: UK MG owner that used to own 300bhp ZR.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> ...and somewhere else, someone is probably contemplating swapping a combustion engine into a Tesla. The world has a way of balancing itself out with weird things.

<comment><USER20> Put a gasoline generator in the frunk and run an extension cord to the charging port. You'll probably get 50-60 MPG. (Teslas cannot leave the Park gear while charging, so a workaround is needed.)

...unless you wanted to retrofit a Toyota eCVT onto a Model S. The Toyota eCVT is quite remarkable in combining electric and mechanical drivetrains entirely through planetary gear ratios, without any shifting. John Kelly at Weber State University has many excellent videos describing these transmissions.[0]

[0] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLNDGUISTYM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLNDGUISTYM)

<comment><USER21> Indeed - the Toyota hybrid synergy drive is a real marvel of engineering. The way in which it uses two separate motor generators to simulate a conventional CVT is just amazing.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Also worth checking out: [http://evbmw.com/](http://evbmw.com/) this is electronics wizard and Irishman Damien Maguire converting BMW's (in his view, the best cars in the world) to electric.

His videos are very detailed and also fairly slow paced so you can take your time to understand. He's done several brilliant builds already including an E39 (aka the best 5-series in my opinion), and E31 (8-series from the early 90s).

Currently he's busy with an E36 EUR1000 conversion which almost sounds too good to be true so it will be very interesting to view.

</comment><comment><USER23> Watching that video of the car accelerate I remember being awestruck how fast circa 1990 my Taiyo RC Fast Traxx could go.

I remember my dad and I scaling up the math (I was only 10 so I needed a little help) and I remember asking him why normal cars didn't have batteries.

I don't recall the answer but it was long... I also was quite distracted with my new RC toy car .. err tank (google fast traxx).

<comment><USER8> The answer was "NiCd batteries are way too expensive, lead acid batteries are way too heavy, and both have way too short a cycle life."

<comment><USER24> Deep cycle lead-acid batteries have fine cycle lives, and indeed were (and are) used for driving golf carts. However, they trade off for lower specific power, which makes them unsuitable for a full-sized, highway-speed-reaching car.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> Kudos, but the fit/finish isn't exactly "sleeper" category.

</comment><comment><USER26> Why do HNers like Tesla so much? Surely Tesla start the era of electric vehicles,but for me it's just yet another American luxury car.I fancy something more exquisite and fun to drive.

<comment><USER27> Have you driven a high performance EV? (Specifically, a Tesla?)

I can't think of something more fun to drive, and I've driven a lot of cars. It feels completely different from a combustion engine car.

<comment><USER19> Oddly enough, I've had the chance to briefly drive a _trolleybus_ , and while it doesn't accelerate quite like a Tesla, it's still surprisingly quick off the line, for a multi-ton vehicle. All that torque is available from a standstill.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> A long time ago I would go to the street drags on S. Eubanks in Albuquerque. This guy rolls up in a beater Corvair. Starts powerbraking it, burning up the stock 14" wheels on the back, egging anyone on to race him. Everybody is ridiculing him. One of the regulars with I'd guess about a 12 second muscle car (quarter mile in 1977, pretty fast) takes his challenge.

The Corvair totally smokes the muscle car. I only recall a couple of seriously built cars being that fast. Corvair guy dies his victory lap, comes back to the starting line, stops and turns on his dome light. He's got a Pontiac 428 where the back seat used to be, a 2 speed automatic is hooked up to a static rear axle via chain drive. Absolutely brilliant in its simplicity and ROI.

<comment><USER29> Wait, did you say chain drive? How does the chain handle all that power? Must wear out the sprockets quickly.

<comment><USER28> I'm taking Corvair guy's word for it. The transmission was buried under the floor pan, so we couldn't see the final drive. The car was nearly silent, it didn't have the typical rumble of a V8. It had this odd whine it made when it was in motion, which he attributed to the chain drive.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> I wonder if Tesla will just sell a drivetrain by itself? Would be cool to just DIY your own electric car.

<comment><USER19> From what I've read, they don't even sell parts to owners of their cars, only authorised repair centers.

<comment><USER31> Which means a surplus of spare parts because it's too expensive to repair a salvaged car.

<comment><USER32> Perfect HN opportunity to open up a marketplace for said parts, especially with so many early adopters here

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> EV West makes kits you can drop into your old Karmann Ghia, Beetle, Porche and more. [http://www.evwest.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=40&osCsid=63be...](http://www.evwest.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=40&osCsid=63bejo67v91j814k59tmakfcm6)

<comment><USER34> Oh wow! An electric Karmann Ghia would be about the best thing I could imagine driving.

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> Does anyone know how much a Model S powertrain costs at salvage? I'm wondering about the total cost (less labor) of this mod.

</comment><comment><USER36> Sounds awesome. Back in the day people were (or still are) stuffing VG30 (Nissan 300ZX) engines in 70s era Datsun 510s, which were awesome little rally cars in their time.

Example: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0MXPq8LLhU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0MXPq8LLhU)

I guess this is the modern equivalent?

<comment><USER37> I don't know if you mean _literally_ sounds awesome ;). It's absurd (in a good way) how the RC-car electric sound belies the actual acceleration.

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> One day I'll take my '67 VW Bus and put a nice powerful engine in it. Maybe one of the early 90s Porsche engines (as it would be nice to stay air-cooled and Porsche has VW heritage).

But damn it's an expensive hobby to even _own_ an older car - let alone mod it.

</comment><comment><USER39> He is just getting his feet wet with this first ev project. Looking forward to his next one!

 _This won't be his last electric build, either. Next up, he'd like to build a full-size version of an RC10 radio control car. That's our kind of toy, for sure._

</comment><comment><USER40> Sadly, this kind of things on Spain are far of being possible as a car that run on the streets need to be homologated, and a lot of paperwork. Something stupid and simple like replacing the lights by led lights would required it.

</comment><comment><USER41> How about Tesla drivetrain in a stretch Vanagon?

[http://cafeelectric.com/stretchla/about/](http://cafeelectric.com/stretchla/about/)

<comment><USER13> That one was never built but another guy did one in a vanagon transporter

</comment></comment><comment><USER42> Oh, very very cool. My dream... Tesla spider chassis tucked under a Porsche 550 spider replica. James Dean Meets Elon Musk.

</comment><comment><USER43> [http://www.nedra.com](http://www.nedra.com)

</comment><comment><USER44> moment motors is an austin startup that converts classic cars to electric.

Here is a porsche they did [https://www.momentmotors.com/porsche/](https://www.momentmotors.com/porsche/)

</comment><comment><USER45> Geeze, if Honda Accords didn't look drastically different back then...

</comment><comment><USER46> this reminds me of the white zombie -- the car that started my whole obsession with electric cars all those years ago.

</comment><comment><USER47> such a waste; it's so fugly

</comment><comment><USER48> Awesome, so this is what it's like to be rich and bored.

<comment><USER32> Honestly that applies to most long term posters here

<comment><USER49> Long term poster. Rich (10mm) but definitely not bored. Too Damn busy. Rarely see rich people being bored

<comment><USER50> How did you make your fortune, if you don't mind me asking?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER51> Reading about this makes me feel like I'm hallucinating, wtf.</comment>


The guide to implementing 2D platformers - <AUTHOR> http://higherorderfun.com/blog/2012/05/20/the-guide-to-implementing-2d-platformers/

<comment><USER2> Oh well, even though it's the second time around, I missed the first one!

Nice article nevertheless, upvote for the effort!

</comment><comment><USER3> this has been posted before, but have an upvote for effort</comment>


Twilio Launches Roll-Your-Own Google Voice - <AUTHOR> http://gigaom.com/2010/06/15/openvbx/

<comment><USER2> Every awesome idea I had for using Twilio (and other such services) was shelved because of their 3cpm pricing.

<comment><USER3> The pricing backlash is fascinating to me, because it appears that it's not that Twilio is overpriced but more that OpenVBX is appealing to consumers/prosumers that Twilio wasn't really reaching before.

So now I'm curious what's next: Does Twilio go after a non-b2b market? They could add a $X/mo unlimited usage plan with whatever caveats they need to make it financially affordable, or they could ignore the market and chase the simpler, more lucrative b2b side they're already good at.

<comment><USER4> Option #3: Somebody does OpenVBX as a service with predictable billing. They get to take on the marketing and support burdens of dealing with the $9 a month subscribers, and the fact that per-user usage (and hence per-user charges) is all over the map gets concealed by the Plans page. That company pays Twilio a few hundred or thousand bucks a month, in whatever fashion makes sense for their accounting practices.

I considered doing this as my Twilio app, prior to OpenVBX actually existing, but the field was crazy-crowded and I figured the idea appeals disproportionately to cheapskates and frauds. You get to pick your customers. Non-technical ladies who actually pay money for things, I choose you!

<comment><USER5> But would Twilio really be the right choice to offer this kind of service? I know they make your life easier but this could be done elsewhere for much, much cheaper.

On that note, have you thought about a switch of service in the future for your Appointment Reminder service? I'm sure it's nice to not have certain problems they take care of at this stage but down the road you could cut your costs down to a third (or less) of Twilio.

(I ask because I'm contemplating some ideas that could make use of telephony services and I respect your opinion.)

<comment><USER4> _On that note, have you thought about a switch of service in the future for your Appointment Reminder service?_

I will probably not be switching. I am fortunate to be in industries where costs are rounding error next to traditional ones, and time spent optimizing for costs has never made sense next to the marginal revenue I could get by taking the same time and putting it to use marketing, engineering, or marketeering. (The exception is advertising costs, because optimizing for those has superscalar returns due to how AdWords works.)

I don't have data yet for Appointment Reminder, obviously, but I expect that Twilio will consume a fairly small portion of my revenue. I'm ecstatic to give that to them in return for getting to use a programming paradigm that I'm very familiar with and have automatic tight integration between the phone and web parts of my offering. (See my blog later for examples of what you can do with that for UX. It is pretty amazing.)

This is similar to why I pay for Slicehost when there are cheaper offerings elsewhere, instantly: it works well and respects my time.

As always, I'm open to the possibility of changing when (not if) reality whacks me upside the head and tells me that everything I know is wrong, but I rather strongly suspect that "Twilio will turn out to be pretty cheap" is not the hypothesis that is a source of risk for my business.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> its google voice but for pay.. doesnt that defeat 90% of the purpose?

i use GV because its free and because it emails me voicemails.. and when i need to call overseas.. but when getting rid of the low/free cost most of the incentives are made irrelevant

<comment><USER7> hi madmaze,

Yes, GV is great for consumers, but we built OpenVBX for businesses, and it's hackable so you can customize it fully. Check it out, would love feedback!

FYI: OpenVBX does transcriptions, emails, text messages and has competitive overseas prices :)

-jeff twilio.com

<comment><USER6> Thanks for the extra info, i guess i didnt consider the enterprise/business side of this, i mainly checked out the twilo page and didnt spend much time on the openvbx.

After i made the previous post i checked it out a little more and ill give it a try and give some feed back.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> anyone know when we'll be allowed to transfer our cell phone numbers (from ATT/verizon/tmobile etc..) to skype/google voice/twilio?

<comment><USER9> I don't know about Skype or GV, but since I work at Twilio I can answer that for us. You can already port your numbers to Twilio. After creating and upgrading your account, you'll see a port a number option in the dashboard. It takes 7-10 business days.

<comment><USER9> I should clarify that we can port Google Voice and Skype numbers to Twilio. I meant that I don't know if GV lets you port numbers in yet or not.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I wish one of these companies would solve the problem of using these services on your home phone. I have service from Time Warner, but can't forward to Google Voice or Twilio because TW doesn't offer conditional call forwarding. So instead of forwarding to the third-party voice mail after 4 or so rings, I only forward after a half a ring, making the service useless. I imagine TW doesn't provide conditional call forwarding because they also offer a voice mail service, albeit much less feature-full and $4/month.

<comment><USER11> Their vision of how you would use their service is to to use their number as your main number, and forward to your home phone.

<comment><USER10> That'd be fine, provided I could port my existing number to their service, get a replacement number from my provider, and then buy a handset that would make calls from my number appear as though they come from the ported number (as you can with Android and Google Voice).

I guess a device that could forward a phone call after a number of rings would do it, but I don't think one exists for PSTN.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Are there any plans for supporting UK customers?

I'd be on this in a flash.

<comment><USER13> You can use Twilio in the UK :) you just have to a) sign up properly (with a card) and b) email them to request international calling.

IIRC (I only use them for SMS) International Outbound rates to the UK are the same as US domestic rates :)

edit: yup, <http://www.twilio.com/international-calling-rates>

<comment><USER5> > IIRC (I only use them for SMS) International Outbound rates to the UK are > the same as US domestic rates :)

It seems only for landlines, however. I'm always amazed by the obscene rates to call a mobile phone outside of the US. (This isn't exclusive to Twilio and I'm not blaming them)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Is the Twilio cost of $0.03 per minute in addition to the per minute costs of your phone line? Why isn't SIP or IAX access allowed? It seems very expensive and restricted.</comment>


U.K. Government to issue 'sleep hygiene' guidance - <AUTHOR> https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/jul/13/government-to-issue-sleep-hygiene-guidance <comment><USER2> Not gonna happen. That would cut into their drinking time.

I'm always appalled when I talk to British or Australian tourists in Hawaii or California:

Me: "See any good sites?"

Limey: "Just point me to the nearest pub. Only got budget for beer."

<comment><USER3> Please keep nationalistic swipes off HN. I realize you probably mean it in a good-humored way, and that's fine for ribbing friends or bullshitting with buddies, but it doesn't translate into the extremely wide and paper-thin world of a public internet forum. Here it just starts fires.</comment></comment>


Physiocracy - <AUTHOR> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physiocracy <comment><USER2> Their concept of productive labor vs. unproductive labor was ultimately not that useful, but I really think it's interesting how critiques of classical political economy revisited the idea. Regardless of all economic activity being "necessary" in a sense, there is clearly a difference in producing new things and maintaining the system in which people function. For example (not to pick on anything, because there are a lot of fields like this), finance is clearly qualitatively different from manufacturing. That's not to say that it's wholly unnecessary, but its fundamentally unproductive nature should probably be spoken of more than it is.</comment>


Ask HN: What tech stack do you use at work? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> DB is Mongo for main data, Postgres with Elasticsearch for analytics events, Redis for session and cache storage

Node.js backend, using Express.js and a REST API framework we built ourselves based on it

Frontend app in Ember.js and a couple others in React/Redux

Whole thing is hosted on Heroku.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for sharing. I have not used node is production environment but I have definitely played around with it. How has been your experience? What kind of scale are you operating on

<comment><USER2> Scale's not massive, it's not a huge product. During peak times (focused on renewal season for a utility) we get thousands of API requests a minute.

When we first started with Node.js, it was pretty bleeding edge to run as a production app, and we started with just a small microservice. It worked beautifully, and we found that our "silos" of frontenders and backenders was really helped. Everyone could review at least all the code in javascript.

Debugging can be annoying on production, but having run Ruby and PHP products before, we found it no worse (but not better).

A lot of people find it uncomfortable how fast the ecosystem moves but we don't really mind. It's kind of just the way it is. Just the right fit for our company since we as a culture like more recent things.

Although as well, I want to say, Node.js and javascript in general has grown in utility and functionality by leaps and bounds in a few years, not to mention the sugar and developer happiness.

I would really recommend Node.js in a small startup especially where small dev teams need to work closer together and really understand what each other is doing.</comment></comment></comment>


German cos think US as bad as China for industrial espionage and data theft - <AUTHOR> http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/d1a163ac-fdea-11e2-a5b1-00144feabdc0.html German companies believe the US now poses almost as big a risk as China when it comes to industrial espionage and data theft, a survey has revealed. The startling finding of a survey of 400 companies conducted in mid-July underscores the shift in German public and business opinion caused by revelations about US surveillance activities. Some 26 per cent of German managers, IT and security professionals described the US as a high-risk place for industrial espionage and data theft, according to the survey commissioned by EY, the consultancy. This was second only to the 28 per cent of respondents who view China as a particularly high-risk country for industrial espionage. Russia was ranked third, with 12 per cent saying it posed a significant risk. <comment><USER2> I live in Germany. I am quite genuinely not experiencing any mass public aversion to the Snowden revelations. Small coverage on TV news. A few talk show programs. A couple of public protests that attracted less than 1000 people in all cases.

Nothing that the NSA should be worried about. Keep up the 'good work' NSA. Seems like nobody cares. Crisis averted. Defcon 5.

<comment><USER3> The article is about companies, not the general population.

But yeah - the CDU/CSU are easily the most pro-US parties, and projections place them at a comfortable 41%: [http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/index.htm](http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/index.htm)

<comment><USER2> Last time I looked, the general population work as said companies. The two as inextricably intertwined.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> From the article: "German companies believe the US now poses almost as big a risk as China when it comes to industrial espionage and data theft, a survey has revealed.

The startling finding of a survey of 400 companies conducted in mid-July underscores the shift in German public and business opinion caused by revelations about US surveillance activities.

Some 26 per cent of German managers, IT and security professionals described the US as a high-risk place for industrial espionage and data theft, according to the survey commissioned by EY, the consultancy.

This was second only to the 28 per cent of respondents who view China as a particularly high-risk country for industrial espionage. Russia was ranked third, with 12 per cent saying it posed a significant risk.

When they were asked the same question two years ago only 6 per cent of German companies described the US as a high-risk centre for industrial espionage and data theft."

Link to the German press release by EY (formerly Ernst & Young) announcing the findings: [http://www.ey.com/DE/de/Newsroom/News- releases/20130802-Date...](http://www.ey.com/DE/de/Newsroom/News- releases/20130802-Datenklau---Neue-Herausforderungen-fuer-deutsche- Unternehmen)

</comment><comment><USER2> FT Paywall. Boo.

<comment><USER4> Google for the title and click the linked result to circumvent the paywall once...

<comment><USER5> Impressive, it really works! Why do they allow this? They want to be indexed by google? What is the logic behind, because if you go by their website you have a terrible experience, if you go by google (with googles ads) you have a better one!

<comment><USER6> Leaky paywalls are a pretty common design. You can read some articles if you just register too.

Does Google have a direct I'm feeling lucky query param so you can link the Google route directly?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Weird title, and paywall. Flagged.

</comment><comment><USER8> Why is ft.com allowed here?

Most users will not have ready access to the article contents therefore will be commenting mostly on the title itself. This sways the discussion towards the shallow end.

I must agree with junto. Boo FT paywall. Boo.

<comment><USER9> Even if most users had subscriptions, it shouldn't be linked to. The other day I was thinking the same thing about The Sun. It got a high placement on Google's search results, yet had no content to display, I hope search engines drop it from their results as it's currently useless.

<comment><USER2> The Sun has 'no content'??

What about the pictures? :-)</comment></comment></comment>


Hobby Tunneling - <AUTHOR> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobby_tunneling <comment><USER2> The story of Elton McDonald's tunnel in Toronto was the subject of a very interesting story on NPR's radio program _This American Life_ :

[https://www.thisamericanlife.org/700/embiggening](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/700/embiggening) (see Act Three: Tunnel Vision)

And many HN readers will undoubtedly be familiar with Seymour Cray, the designer of several influential computers:

> _The American engineer and supercomputer architect Seymour Cray is known to > have been a hobby tunneller. Cray built an 8 by 4 feet (2.4 by 1.2 m) cedar- > floored tunnel under his house, explaining that the digging helped him to > think about computer designs. "While I'm digging in the tunnel, the elves > will often come to me with solutions to my problem," he said._

</comment><comment><USER3> Who didn't dig tunnels as kids.

Perhaps the bigger question is why it's not more popular.</comment>


RockMelt: Netscape's Andreesen Backing Stealth Facebook Browser - <AUTHOR> http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/rockmelt_netscapes_andreesen_backing_stealth_facebook_browser.php <comment><USER2> It's more likely that Facebook (or Ning) would begin to dig into your desktop (or Jetpack) versus the other way around.

(unless Rockmelt is itself a desktop shell replacement)

</comment><comment><USER3> 1) Connect 2) Nauseate me 3) _Go_

</comment><comment><USER4> A guy at a conference once called Marc 'Loudmouth'! As a joke on 'Loudcloud'.</comment>


pywebview: Like Electron, but instead of Chromium using OS's own native renderer - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/Fizzadar/pywebview <comment><USER2> That's obviously a wrong link, as it points to a fork with zero changes compared to the origin. The following link would be more appropriate: [https://github.com/r0x0r/pywebview](https://github.com/r0x0r/pywebview)</comment>


Show HN: Whatsapp for Chrome – Finally a Good Working WhatsApp Client for Chrome - <AUTHOR> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/whatsapp/adhdpeneampjjjhpkedennogbepndhbf?hl=nl <comment><USER2> This appears to be just a shortcut to the readily available web.whatsapp.com.</comment>


Open source actually hinders teamwork - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@mrjoelkemp/open-source-actually-hinders-teamwork-791a794f27 <comment><USER2> So you didn't know how to ask for help, and you think OSS was the root cause? lol.</comment>


Palantir to pay $1.7m over accusation it discriminates against Asian applicants - <AUTHOR> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/apr/26/palantir-racial-discrimination-lawsuit-asians-peter-thiel <comment><USER2> Planter doesn't have... "with ties to Donald Trump."

The media keeps getting less competent.

Remember the CEO of Palanir blasting Trump?

[https://www.buzzfeed.com/williamalden/video-shows- palantir-c...](https://www.buzzfeed.com/williamalden/video-shows-palantir-ceo- ridiculing-trump-and-slamming-his?utm_term=.cadaY8mP1l#.kdn4BEegb6)

<comment><USER3> In the second paragraph of the article, they explain what they consider the ties between Trump and Palantir:

> _The $20bn data-analytics company, co-founded by Peter Thiel, one of the > president's advisers,_

<comment><USER2> so let's get this straight "ties to the Trump" = advisors. That's disappointingly shallow perspective.

I guess Facebook has ties to trump? So would Paypal and Founders Fund?

I'm sure you know Peter Thiel holds a position at Y Combinator and thus Hacker News. I guess we all have "ties to trump" now.

[https://medium.com/projectinclude/peter-thiel-yc-and-hard- de...](https://medium.com/projectinclude/peter-thiel-yc-and-hard- decisions-2b91bab83764)

Bad reporting...

<comment><USER3> You may very well disagree with the Guardian as to what constitutes a "tie". Ignoring that they made clear their justification for doing so and arguing that the relationship between Thiel and Trump is equivalent to the relationship between the average HN and Trump is disingenuous. If your issue with the Guardian in particular and the media in general is that they're not being fair in their reporting, you need to do better than they are in your criticism of them.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Beating a Skills Shortage - <AUTHOR> http://www.newcontext.com/2012/04/27/beating-a-skills-shortage/

<comment><USER2> There's no skills shortage. Economic theory predicts that raising wages would eliminate labor "shortages". A little "on the job" training would help.

<comment><USER3> Right, there is no shortage for those willing to pay a premium. Money is not the total equation but there are plenty of great developers that given the right price will jump ship. If one where to put an ad out for a senior developer with a base of $220k I am sure they would have no shortage of great talent at their door. It also has the secondary effect of attracting more people to the industry. I have my reservations about that being a good thing, because passion is so important in this industry but the reality is the market corrects shortages it just takes time and a realization on employers part that they have to raise rates to compete and attract.</comment></comment>


Paved, but Still Alive: Taking Parking Lots Seriously, as Public Spaces - <AUTHOR> http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/arts/design/taking-parking-lots-seriously-as-public-spaces.html?_r=0&referer= <comment><USER2> I recently visited Cambridge, MA to help my brother move, and I think the density of the city is quite nice. I was struck by how little parking they have. I didn't miss my car at all for the few days I was in Cambridge and Boston.

One of my friends and I were talking about parking lots recently, because we had gone to do some shopping at a mall in Chicago. We both found the large amount of parking (by Chicago standards) really off-putting. Parking lots divide in the same way that highways do. A parking lot that has 5 rows of parking seems small when you are in your car, but it's a wide space to cross when you are on foot. In the summer large lots are at least 10-15 degrees hotter than the surrounding area because of the blacktop, and during the winter lots are ringed with walls of piled snow and ice. It's really off- putting.

Parking lots are even more oppressive in the suburbs. I briefly worked at a company whose office was across the street from a really nice outdoor mall. I've always enjoyed taking a brief walk during lunch, and so I tried walking to the mall a few times. Despite being across the street, it took about 10 minutes to reach the actual mall, crossing my building's lot, a six lane road, and the mall's lot. Surprisingly, there was a crosswalk at the stoplight, but there was no sidewalk at any other point in between my office and the mall.

I only went a few times, because it took so long to reach the mall that I nearly had to head back as soon as I got there, and because drivers in the area were completely oblivious to pedestrians. In the few times I went, I nearly got hit several times by people who were only looking at the light, and not looking for pedestrians in the crosswalk.</comment>