A fork in the road - <AUTHOR> https://www.cyanogenmod.org/blog/a-fork-in-the-road <comment><USER2> A user claiming to be a former dev also indicates you should no longer trust OTA updates:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/5k55vo/the_dea...](https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/5k55vo/the_death_of_cyanogenmod_and_what_it_means_for/dblok7b/)

<comment><USER3> >The business side couldn't figure out how to monetize an Android-based operating system. When they got a clue of how to monetize something, it didn't depend on the OS.

Any speculation on what this might be? User data?

<comment><USER4> Probably the same path as any OS nowadays: using you OS as a commodity to support a distribution of software/HWs you lock away from users.

Non standardized poorly engineered/proprietary HW and poorly documented SoC makes it impossible for an OS to survive without the support of big companies.

FOSS massively benefits nowadays the worst actors on the HW/SW markets possible. If you wait long enough you will see the heroes turn into the villains. (cf The Watchmen).

<comment><USER5> > FOSS massively benefits nowadays the worst actors on the HW/SW markets > possible. If you wait long enough you will see the heroes turn into the > villains. (cf The Watchmen).

This is really only true of OSS, not Free (Libre) Software, which is why that distinction is so important.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> A reddit user[0] backed up all the snapshots available on archive.org[1], just in case...

[0] [https://redd.it/5k5d7x](https://redd.it/5k5d7x)

[1] [https://archive.org/details/cmarchive_snapshots](https://archive.org/details/cmarchive_snapshots)

</comment><comment><USER7> I want to read the full story, including how Microsoft was involved. (yes, it was involved, use Google to search for previous news)

</comment><comment> pokemon-trainer I have an iPhone. Can someone explain to me why you would want "nightly builds" of your phone operating system (or any other software) if you are not a developer? I guess I don't understand why Cyanogen tried to turn into a company.

I'm scared of updating my phone because I'm afraid of what will break next. As an example: for a long while using find in PDFs was broken in Safari.

<comment><USER8> Most people don't want to update nightly. What they want is to use the first build that fixes the bug that they particularly hate, or includes the new feature that they particularly want.

Otherwise, they wait for Milestone releases.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> The website is really nice. I hope the transition is smooth.

</comment><comment><USER10> So, yes, Cyanogen isn't dead. The name is just changing. Glad we finally got that straight.

<comment><USER11> Hope they learned their lesson and don't sell the name of the open source project out from under it again.

<comment><USER12> Could you expand on this "selling the name" bit?

How does that work?

<comment><USER13> The CyanogenMod open-source project somewhat lended their name to the Cyanogen company.

The link explains it better.

<comment><USER14> The link is too friendly to give the juicy details. I tried to find another source with Google Search. Perhaps this link is biased, but it's easy to understand the drama: [https://plus.google.com/+GuillaumeLesniak/posts/L8FJkrcahPs](https://plus.google.com/+GuillaumeLesniak/posts/L8FJkrcahPs)</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


DHH: EU should do to US what the US did to China (Tik Tok) - <AUTHOR> https://twitter.com/dhh/status/1290329709851549696 <comment><USER2> I'm commenting to have a reference to this post, I'm curious to see what other people will say on this topic.

I agree, by the way.

</comment><comment><USER3> >US did to China

1 it didnt happen yet

2 EU would be better off doing to China what China does and has been doing to EU. 10 years ago: [https://www.bbc.com/news/12382747](https://www.bbc.com/news/12382747)</comment>


Amazon Makes Major Push into Furniture - <AUTHOR> https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-makes-major-push-into-furniture-1494581401?tesla=y&mod=e2fb <comment><USER2> It's great that Amazon keeps bringing new products to the table.</comment>


Maslow's Hammer - <AUTHOR> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_instrument <comment><USER2> Surprisingly modern instantiation. Precursor phrases exist but this tight quote is 1960? Wow.

And.. Maslow.</comment>


Layoffs at O'Reilly - <AUTHOR> http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20090115/business/901150213

<comment><USER2> To the extent that the recession is to blame, I think the cause is that tech books are largely a luxury item. So much really good information and support is available online, and often your $60 investment gets you flawed or out-of- date information. Plus you can't search or copy+paste from dead trees.

I love programming books, but I can do without buying them, for the most part, without a significant impact.</comment>


Supreme Court: "Aereo is illegal because it engages in public performances" - <AUTHOR> https://twitter.com/SCOTUSblog/status/481801335483138049

<comment><USER2> Wow.

So you can't rent a service command it to do what you want? (slingbox?).

Are cloud operators going to have to police there boxes to make sure they're not "broadcasting public performances"?

sigh.</comment>


China's Thirteenth Five-Year Plan - <AUTHOR> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-year_plans_of_China#Thirteenth_Plan_.282016.E2.80.932020.29 <comment><USER2> This is why I like my country. You don't need to worry about the continuation of the policies after transitioning of power. Yes there are different focuses but no dramatic shifts in the general direction.

I don't want to get into a debate on democracy. But you got to admit that knowing your long-term policy won't suddenly change due to an election has its own merits.</comment>


An Explanation of Computation Theory for Lawyers - <AUTHOR> http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20091111151305785

<comment><USER2> This is a great effort. But it is also ineffective.

I am a lawyer. I am also a software guy. But I'll be the first to say that this is WAY too technical of an explanation for 99% of lawyers to follow, let alone be persuaded.

It reads like notes from an Intro to Algorithms class, rather than as a magazine article. It is not written in the form that lawyers are used to. It appeals solely to pure logic (logos) and not at all to emotion (pathos).

Lists like "1. A synthetic language with a defined syntax; 2. An explicit list of logical inference rules; 3. An explicit list of axioms" will just scare lawyers away.

If you want to convince lawyers, you have to speak their (often strange) language. This document does not do so.

<comment><USER3> > But it is also ineffective.

It's ineffective for another reason. Arguments such as "We can make one by listing all possible programs in alphabetic order. Any program that one may write is sitting in this list waiting to be written. In such a case, could a program be considered an invention in the sense of patent law? Or is it a discovery because the program is a preexisting mathematical abstraction that is merely discovered?" are irrelevant, because a court would observe that it takes effort and intention for a programmer to write a program, just as it takes effort and intention for an author to write a novel. (And for the same reason, any argument that novels can't be copyrighted because they are merely "discovered" would fall flat on its face.)

The law takes into account the thoughts and intentions of people, which trump logical mathematical arguments, however sound. I recommend the essay "What Colour are your bits?" at <http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/lawpoli/colour/2004061001.php> which goes into this point in more detail.

That doesn't mean it's pointless to try to get judges to understand computers better. When they order things that're impossible -- such as telling an ISP to filter all traffic that infringes copyright, including on encrypted data -- they are clearly in need of education.

<comment><AUTHOR> Excellent point. To extend it slightly, you can similarly list all possible patent applications alphabetically, this means that the patents at least are discovered in precisely the same sense that programs are, if you tak that point of view.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> "All software is discovered and not invented."

Though this depends on your definition of "discover" and "invent", I would be inclined to disagree. I personally find that the process of writing software has more in common with engineering that mathematics.

Another argument: 'x was discovered', in some sense, implies that x could likely have been discovered by another intelligent being in another time and place. 'x was invented' implies that such was unlikely. Though I would agree that algorithms are discovered (intelligent alien races are as likely to know quicksort as they are relativity and calculus), I don't agree that complex software systems are discovered.

<comment><USER5> The argument in that article can be applied to say that _all_ things are discovered and not invented, which doesn't correspond at all to how we used those words. I can enumerate all songs as easily as I can enumerate all programs.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> I do wish it were a little shorter, or at least that the "why lawyers need this" section came sooner---I think (fear) much of the target audience will glaze over well before the end.</comment>


Work at Home Heaven - <AUTHOR> http://www.whattofix.com/blog/archives/2009/11/work-at-home-he.php

<comment><USER2> Good point, bonus that it was made humorously:

 _People ask me what it's like to work for myself. It's great! Only the boss is an asshole.

But that's the way it has to be when working by yourself from your home office on your own business: if you don't put pressure on yourself nobody else is going to._</comment>


London cops cuff 20-year-old man for unblocking blocked websites - <AUTHOR> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/08/07/london_cops_close_down_site_arrest_suspect/

<comment><AUTHOR> Also, required tor-talk discussion: [https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor- talk/2014-August/...](https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor- talk/2014-August/034308.html)</comment>


5 reasons Not to choose Atlassian JIRA for agile projects - <AUTHOR> http://sensinum.com/blog-post/5-reasons-not-to-choose-atlassian-jira-for-agile-projects/ <comment><USER2> what killed it for me was the inability to group tasks epic and sub task in meaningful ways.

we use it mostly for bug tracking today, and sprint planning is done informally picking the highest value from a table of all the major features</comment>


Someone left my Gmail in debug mode - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@zg/someone-left-my-gmail-in-debug-mode-8aa1b1c46172 <comment><USER2> An icon of a skull with bones was used for the debugger. That, in combination with the 'Spy' components, is giving users an eerie feeling. Note to myself: don't be funny in debugmode

<comment><USER3> A friend of mine works at an insurance company and used Testicle as a test name. It wasn't that funny when a customer called his workplace asking why he got a letter that starts with "Hello Mr Testicle".

<comment><USER4> I used to work at a place where a guy used, "Hello Fuckers" as test data. Our manager got a very angry call from a customer who printed out a 300 page report with, "Hello Fuckers" at the end of every line.

<comment><USER5> 10 years ago I built an internal system for tickets (really old school VB and internal access db) for helpdesk & ISM the internal error code for closed tickets due to user error was id10t it was an internal joke until they decided to pull data from it into the new CA unicenter system which then lead to a bunch of quite important people's names appear with the column next to it saying id10t on the big 50" plasma screens in the new NOC/IT operations center.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I'm guessing just one or a small number of servers were in debug mode by accident, thus like winning the lottery that your request hits a debug server.

</comment><comment><USER7> I experienced the exact same issue on a paid Google Apps for Business account yesterday evening around 11pm CET.

Creeped me out, i assumed it was some Browser Plugin gone rouge.

<comment><USER8> Did you deactivate all your browser plugins since? I activate them on demand and keep them off most of the time (especially browser screenshot tools and syntax coloration of json).

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> FYI this is a known issue: [https://support.google.com/a/answer/6166309?hl=en](https://support.google.com/a/answer/6166309?hl=en)

</comment><comment><USER10> I experienced the same issue today. Entire screen was blank with the exception of the page header. I was only able to access my mail in an incognito browser.

</comment><comment><USER11> I can see this in my inbox too!

</comment><comment><USER12> Releasing this code that was obviously not intended to ever be public rubs me the wrong way a bit -- not to mention, it's probably illegal.

Edit: "publicizing", not "releasing". As others pointed out, the website doesn't contain any actual code.

<comment><USER13> > it's probably illegal

I certainly, _certainly_ hope not. While of course there is an ethical question involved here, making it illegal to release "code that was obviously not intended to be public" is a MASSIVE slippery slope. I could put your grandmother in jail for clicking a broken link in her email and sharing the confusing things she saw, because of a "bug" in my app.

<comment><USER14> It definitely has a good chance at being illegal. So does your grandmother clicking a link in the email if she has any hint of an idea that she's not supposed to click that link (e.g. if the email said "you are not permitted to access this link" it suddenly could be illegal to intentionally visit it).

It's called the "Computer Fraud and Abuse Act"[0].

The exact portion is: "Whoever intentionally accesses a computer without authorization or exceeds authorized access, and thereby obtains information from any protected computer" is guilty of a criminal offence.

This user of Gmail obviously surmised this was debug information he was not meant to see. As soon as he clicked that debug link or the detail link, he was intentionally accessing information without authorized access. He knew he was not supposed to access that information and he did so anyways.

The CFAA has been used before for things not too far off for this. 3Tap[1] was found guilty of CFAA abuse when it scraped Craigslist after its IPs were banned.

Weev[2] was prosecuted under the CFAA for accessing unprotected AT&T customer data that was hidden behind a url with an incrementing integer ID (no password, no username, just a perl script to increment a url parameter in a get request).

This is a fairly well documented law that has been used a number of times and it's almost certain that the author is guilty under it, as written. It's one hell of a broad law.

[0]: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act)

[1]: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craigslist_Inc._v._3Taps_Inc](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craigslist_Inc._v._3Taps_Inc).

[2]: [https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/07/weevs-case-flawed- begi...](https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/07/weevs-case-flawed-beginning- end)

<comment><USER15> Looks like the user was accessing his own browser on his own computer, so he probably had authorization to do that, and it's unlikely that his own computer was 'protected' against him obtaining information from it.

Would you say that everyone who has ever clicked 'view source' is a criminal? (despite the fact that the source was sent to them in plain-text with the knowledge that a 'view-source' function is available to them)

<comment><USER14> Weev was also accessing AT&T's servers from his own computer using his own software.

This user was accessing Google's debug servers and debug information. Did you read up on the Weev case? It's not that dissimilar. It seems like you're being intentionally obtuse in saying "his computer was not protected from him", well, no, Google's debug servers and information were meant to be.

If someone accesses the source code of a website while knowing that the website author intends them to not access it, then yes, they're potentially exceeding their authorized access and breaking the law under the CFAA.

I don't think the law is good nor makes sense, but explaining why it's dumb logically to me doesn't help. You're preaching to the choir. I know it's dumb and doesn't make sense. This law was created by people who do not understand technology or the internet except by analogies to it being "kinda like a supermarket" or such.

I gave suitable evidence that this is quite possibly illegal because of a dumb law. You've told me that it's dumb for this to be illegal (yes it is dumb) as if that means it can't be illegal. That's not a rebuttal to the links and statements I provided and, without a meaningful counter argument that isn't you intentionally being obtuse about what I said, you aren't furthering this discussion.

<comment><USER15> Perhaps I missed something. I don't see anything about the user accessing Google's protected debug servers that require authorization. I see 'mail.google.com' then 'about:blank' in the url bar, which indicates that he's accessing a public server and then probably accessing data already on his machine. Data that they chose to send to him and present to him within his browser with controls that were displayed to him to allow him to access it because they decided he was authorized to see it.

I don't know much about weev's case except that it sounds like it was information that AT&T had decided that the public was authorized to access without any authentication or protection. They screwed up. I agree that a lot of legal people are tech-illiterate, and they screw up, too. Which may be why they eventually bailed on a venue technicality rather than address the actual case.

But your point was: "Whoever intentionally accesses a computer without authorization or exceeds authorized access, and thereby obtains information from any protected computer" (which doesn't really sound that dumb on its own)

My point is that you're authorized to access your own computer and it isn't protected from you, so that would not apply (unless the legals involved couldn't figure it out). Is clicking the 'About' button in the help menu of an application and accessing the version number a crime? Seeing the Gmail debug info in chrome is just that with more detail. Try putting "chrome://about" in your Chrome url bar. Ooh, there's data. Lots of debug data. Are you a criminal now? No, it's your system and you're authorized to use it. And the makers of Chrome chose to give you access to that data. Just for fun, try chrome://quit/</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ruby has an ISO standard now - <AUTHOR> http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=59579 <comment><USER2> The question I have, is how good a standard is it? Sometimes language standards are put together in a political way, so all the vendors can say they comply, and the standard has no teeth and no effect on portability.

Since there aren't many players in the Ruby language space, this is probably not an issue, and it's all down to how good a job the standard writers do. (Basically, I understand it's basically only matz who determines what is and isn't Ruby.)

What this should buy the community: protection from future vendor/implementation fragmentation. (But only if it's a strong standard with "teeth.")

<comment><USER3> Aren't there anomalously MANY players in the Ruby language space?

* The super-important MRI/YARV team

* The mruby team

* The super-important MacRuby team

* The IronRuby team, to the extent it still exists

* The super-important JRuby team

* The super-important Rubinius team

Other languages also have multiple implementations, but they aren't really in viable competition with each other like they are in Ruby (a good thing for Ruby).

<comment><USER4> I don't know about that.

Jython vs CPython vs PyPy vs Stackless Python vs IronPython

HotSpot vs OpenJDK vs Dalvik vs GNU Classpath (libraries only) vs Jazelle VM, etc

There is some argument as to which feedback into the language and which are "pure" implementations but I think the point still holds, many languages are pulled in many directions by either their runtime or their compiler.

<comment><USER5> But isn't Jython years behind the CPython version, PyPy still experimental and on Python 2.x, and IronPython mostly a novelty? Stackless seems in better shape, though, and couldn't say anything in respect to usage.

The argument for Java is clearer and it's a well known case of the interaction of multiple implementors, and thus it has an standardization process.

<comment><USER4> I would say that CPython, PyPy and Stackless are in pretty strong competition in different areas. PyPy only supporting 2.x seems to be a relatively unimportant metric given the slow adoption of 3.x. As for it being experimental, perhaps technically but I do believe its used in production in many places. From what I know Stackless gets a large portion of its support from CCP games due to its use in Eve Online. I'm sure there are others but its use case is relatively unique.

<comment><USER2> In the grand scheme of things, the differences between CPython and PyPy are minor. Stackless is a special case. Relatively Python has very little language fragmentation. It has more of what I'd call "implementation fragmentation," but not too much of that either.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> question: Why does getting a copy of an ISO doc cost money?

<comment><USER7> To cover the operating costs, pay their employees, etc. If they gave them away free they'd need sponsors I guess.

So it's probably to maintain neutrality.

<comment><USER8> They are funded by member organizations.

<comment><USER9> That is not entirely true. ISO itself is funded by the member bodies (the national subgroups so to say), member organizations and selling standards. This gives the concrete figures for 2011 [1] on page 2.

[1] <http://www.iso.org/iso/about/iso_in_figures.htm>

<comment><USER8> Well, of course, they make money by selling standards, since they _sell_ them.

From your link (2011):

        55 %	 through membership fees
        45 %	 through sales of publications and other income from services

        2010: 53/47
        2009: 55/45
        2008: 60/40
        ..
        2006: 62/38
        2005: 65/35
        ..
        2002: 80 % - financed directly
              20 % - member body subscriptions and publications income

I think they can operate without paid publications. They could, at least.

<comment><USER10> Am I reading your link right that they receive 45% of their revenue from selling publications? I don't know many organizations that could stand losing 55% of their revenue.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> What is the cost, time and money, of getting something ISO standardized?

<comment><USER12> If you have to ask, it's probably too expensive.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> @developer9 -> Your comments seem to be dead on arrival, although I cannot figure out why - your comments and submissions look ok to me. Not sure if HN has a silent ban, but just thought you should know.

</comment><comment><USER14> Why the heck are they making an Old, soon to be unused Ruby 1.8.3 as ISO standard.

They should be thinking about 2.0 instead.

<comment><USER15> Standardization takes time, and this is Ruby being standardized for the first time.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> It's a standard for 1.8.7, right?</comment>


Visual Thesaurus - <AUTHOR> http://www.visualthesaurus.com

<comment><USER2> I have a copy and I rather like it to play with. Good for inspiration when doing naming.

For writing if I am stuck on a word, i'll just hit Google and go 'word' + thesaurus, because firing up the program is slower. I see they dealt with that by having a web/java version

My copy was a gift from a poet, who loved it very much.</comment>


Show HN: A Chrome extension to save code snippets instantly - <AUTHOR> https://www.thiscodeworks.com/extension <comment><USER2> Thanks for sharing! I'm the maker of this extension :)

To add a bit more context, I started building this app about a month ago. It all started with a simple "Save" button that would push code to a web app I had previously built to save code online.

I shared it with a small group of beta testers. They all had such great feedback & suggestions. Thanks to them the extension is now 10x better! It now has:

> Select text anywhere & right-click to save as snippet. > Access recent saves > in a sidebar from any tab. > Save webpages > Organize snippets in > collections & tags > And of course a way better UI and experience!

It still has some bugs & issues, but I couldn't wait to share it with other developers online. Really excited to hear your feedback!</comment>


How chronic pain has made me happier - <AUTHOR> http://robertheaton.com/2013/03/19/how-chronic-pain-has-made-me-happier/

<comment><USER2> Rob, there are many different forms of chronic pain, many different severities, and many different causes. The most common instances of chronic pain occur after some form of trauma (damage), but others occur without any known trauma. From your description, you seem to be in the "post trauma" category (from cycling), and the pain is limited to your legs.

Since you're still able to walk, and surprisingly, rollerblade and run, you should to count yourself as very lucky.

I mean this sincerely. I won't compare pains in public, but I'll just say, I still appreciate my good fortune and I always count my blessings. Whenever you have moments when you're unable to do the things you want, try to remember the things you can still do. It helps. Even if the only things you can manage to do today is get yourself out of bed into a chair and try to concentrate well enough to read, those are still accomplishments and you are lucky to be able to do them.

You managed to use a computer for awhile or maybe even did a bit of typing today? -- FUCK YEAH! Major Win!

Celebrate the wins. Appreciate the little things. Until a person is no longer able to do the little things, those little things are taken for granted.

The supposed little things seem so pathetic by comparison, but comparison is the real problem. If you compare yourself with others, there are only two possible outcomes and both are harmful; either you'll become vain, or you'll become insecure.

The best answer is to just do your best. At times, your best will be truly bad, by comparison, but this is true for absolutely everyone. When you learn to accept your abilities and appreciate your best, you've got the positive momentum to keep striving for better. Everyone endures setbacks, and everyone is enduring some rate of deterioration -- for example, think of some skill you had but are now a bit rusty due to lack of practice (like SYS/360 or VAX assembly code?). Only by continually trying to do your best can you stave off the eventual decline a little longer, but more importantly, doing our best is where we find happiness.

The rogues gallery of interaction on the Internet is always there, and every day it seems to become more of a competition and conflict of harmful comparisons. Whether it's the effigy of yourself on some "social" site being compared with others, or your best work being compared with alternatives; the comparisons are always there. The only thing you should ever take with you from a comparison is new ideas to improve your best.

Laugh! It helps. Make jokes so others can laugh with you. (Yes, even here on HN)

If you, or others, in our situation would like to contact me privately through email, I have a good collection of information that can help people living with chronic pain. My email is in my profile.

</comment><comment><USER3> I've struggled with chronic pain for almost 20 years after military and ultramarathons in my 20's. Many knee operations, 100's of doctors around the world without any success. Crawl up the wall in pain at night times.

Very recently however, I've found a doctor who prescribed extremely low doses of medicines normally related to depression; and the effect has been almost instantaneous in turning off the 24hr pain. I followed up the medical literature and this seems to be a niche but evolving area - worth checking out with your physician. I'm hoping that I'll be able to drop taking these daily in the near future and get back to what normal people feel like. My productivity has gone through the roof as well as being able to concentrate better on work and not on the constant pain.

Now to start making the journey back to fit again :)

<comment><USER4> I'm not in the military, but I've done a number of ultramarathons and hope to continue to do so for a little while at least before really settling down and starting a family(I'll be 31 in May). Any advice?

(Edit: I'm glad that you've found a way to overcome the pain!)

<comment><USER3> Best advice I got too late: Never run with a backpack. However walking with weight is great exercise. I spent years habitually carrying a weighted pack or divers weight-belt to 'acclimatize' my body, never took the escalator or lift and ran every moment I could - in boots mostly. Sports medicine and knowledge has improved enough now that these common mistakes can be avoided.

<comment><USER4> Interesting thoughts... typically I don't, but the last couple races I did required it. I'm doing Marathon des Sables in a few weeks, which requires me to carry a ~20lb bag for the 6 days I'll be out there, and I ran a 50mi race this past October with a 5lb bag(water, light snacks). Of course, there was the time spent training for it that required me to get ready to do these races. My preference is without the bag, of course :) and I always do my runs with running shoes, never in boots.

I'll try to do more of my runs after this one without the extra weight though - thank you for your input! What ultras have you done?

<comment><USER3> here is an interesting bit of advice on rucking that I found today. [http://www.itstactical.com/centcom/interviews/still- rucking-...](http://www.itstactical.com/centcom/interviews/still-rucking- at-63-an-interview-with-former-delta-force-operator-ed-bugarin/) for myself - never did anything formal - one of my mentors trained me according to a real life combat situation he was in: run/walk 3 days/nights carrying 60kg (his team was chased by vehicles). That was what I always trained for, so definitely outside the norm. Good luck with MdS - would love to do that one day.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> a bit late, but this thought only crystallized as i was out walking...

this post follows a common template (motif? i'm searching for the right word). something along the lines of "i was an idiot then [random bad thing] happened and things turned out for the better".

that's fine.

but. but. but what people seem to draw from this is that [random bad thing] means life will be good. that's missing the important part. the important part was _i was an idiot_. that is why things got better - they stopped being an idiot.

and this is important, because when [random bad thing] happens people trot out this kind of story as platitude. which REALLY DOES NOT HELP.

look at it this way. at best, you're assuming that before [random bad thing] i was living an unreflective, impulsive, poorly thought out life. and now i will be forced to re-evaluate my stance.

but maybe i already had a good life? maybe i already was cool? maybe i already was happy?

[random bad thing] is defined by _bad_. so stopping using dumb stories to "cheer up" people who are affected (well, if you do; sorry, got a bit carried away there).

thanks. this was a public announcement on behalf of someone who was recently diagnosed with [random bad thing] and really doesn't appreciate being told how this opens up so many options. is that all _you_ are waiting for, to be awesome? being a cripple?

<comment><USER6> Agreed, bad things are bad. I was in pain for 3-4 years in my early twenties due to Bechterew's disease, and it was a thoroughly bad experience. Though still mild compared to what the author describes, it really messed me up, making me angry and depressed. I had a good life before I got sick, and I have a good life now that I have a proper diagnosis and working drugs.

It's fantastic that the author found peace with his pain, but I wouldn't wish chronic pain on my worst enemy, and I definitely wouldn't expect people with chronic pain to view it as a new opportunity.

I really hope your [random bad thing] works out to something not quite as bad. Modern medicine is pretty awesome.

<comment><USER7> I read this and laughed. There's two people on the planet that I've wished my struggle upon. Of course, I might have only meant it figuratively... or maybe not ;)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Whoever is suffering with chronic pain should check their Vitamin D level.. Check out the book "Power of Vitamin D" by Dr. Sarfraz Zaidi. He is MD, FACP, FACE is an Assistant Clinical Professor of Medicine at UCLA. Dr. Zaidi, a leading expert on Vitamin D, is also director of the Jamila Diabetes and Endocrine Medical Center in Thousand Oaks, California. The book has been an eye-opener for me. I suffer from skin rashes and have gone through various tests/biopsies with positive results. No dermatologist could diagnose the issue. But my PCP did a Vitamin D test, and found my level to be too low. I have been taking Vitamin D suplement for the past 3 months, and I see a great progress. Hope this helps you too..

<comment><USER9> I was having mysterious chronic pain in my legs, and it mostly went away after starting Vitamin D supplements. (Blood work had shown my Vitamin D levels to be low.)

I've been suffering from chronic dizziness the past few years, and it sucks. Doctors are not much use. This happened to me a decade ago for two years and then it suddenly cured itself. But now it's back.

I can't imagine ever asserting that chronic dizziness makes me happier. On the other hand, I trudge on and have been happy despite this very frustrating affliction.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Late to comment, but I read this post a few days ago and I wanted to comment under a throw-away account. I can share some feeling with the author, but there's _no way_ I agree that you can be _happier_ with chronic pain.

I've been also suffering from chronic pain since I was ~20. I remember it started with mild focusing problem: I would feel unable to concentrate, and every ~60 seconds or so I would have a sensation of disorientation that would break my train of thought. Sounds innocent. I also thought that too, until it started to get worse and I had to start looking for medical advice.

I carried on, even though you can imagine that even though there was actually no pain, it's incredibly debilitating. At some point it got so bad, I remember I had occasions where I would feel "lost" in the middle of a room, I would try to remember what I was doing but as I was doing that I would re-start from 0, and ask myself: what was..? Fortunately it wouldn't last for very long (maybe a couple of minutes),and I actually never lost the "memory", I would just be unable to think.

I still believe this was the onset of everything that followed. This feeling got less and less frequent over the months. After 3 years I didn't have any of those "lost in a room" moments. But as this feeling disappeared, I started to have tingling pain in the fingers, that later extended to the whole arms. I later (after _years_ , medical examinations, etc) discovered that what was actually happening was muscle stiffness in the forearms, then neck, and then the whole body, which created varying levels of suboptimal blood circulation, and subsequently increased stiffness resulting in a negative feedback loop.

At various times, I had rippling muscles, like this: <http://youtu.be/vKgFtIbCzcg>

Some other times I could strike any muscle with a finger with minimal force, without pain at all, and it would form an isolated contraction, so small I could actually _draw_ shapes on the biceps, which is something I would have always fun doing to show doctors.

But the biggest problem became very soon to be pain. Everywhere. Due to stiffness, fatigue, or whatever. I was doing piano lessons since a couple of years, but I couldn't take it anymore. After a session I would feel stiffer, I couldn't articulate the fingers smoothly as I could at the beginning of the lesson itself. It was something that I loved, and the more I tried the more I would feel powerless. Very, very slowly I stopped doing any piano entirely, because I would only feel enraged, bad, and depressed.

I had to slow down work. A lot. Typing became a serious issue. I switched countless keyboards. I would before "think while typing" and correct/fix the code along the way. I now "think before doing anything".

One of the things that I always liked was hiking. I hiked a lot, 3-12 hours, any elevation gain, any distance, no problem. I could hike slowly and think, or I could just as well hike to stop thinking, which is also incredibly effective. It's the perfect stress/pain valve, until last year I started having the same issue in the legs too. Again, very slowly. Sometimes I would just feel tired, and recover quickly. But over time the recovery took longer and longer, until now it seems that I cannot properly recover even from mild activity.

The biggest "a-ha" moment for me was two years ago, when I stopped doing piano. The author of the post says it's "happiness" and enjoying the small things. I don't think so. For me it was the moment I gave up. I tried _fucking hard_ doing everything I could to fix the issue. I spent literally everything I had on medical doctors, visits, etc. I tried alternative medicine. I explored every detail I could, and failed. At this point you just let go, and accept the problem as it is. I'm basically forced to care for the issue, otherwise I wouldn't work at all, but does this make me happy?

I'm sorry, but no. I'd give you _anything_ so I don't have to suffer continuously, so that I could do piano again, or hike without having to worry about pain later, or even sit at the computer without feeling pain.

The way I work now is very different. When I want to work on a problem, or do any activity, I have to focus hard, "zone out" completely if you will, to the point that anything beyond the problem at hand has any space. It's hard to do. But you can become good at it, like everything else. And it's not a method for stress relief, because the moment you "let go" the pain is brought back too.

Maybe I'm missing the enlightenment the poster had. But chronic pain is incredibly debilitating. I have moments were I really feel handicapped, even though I can literally do everything. Chronic pain is bad guys, there is no "good" that I can think of :(.

</comment><comment><USER11> I've suffered with chronic pain since my car accident a few years ago. It amazes me how I have gone from wanting to pop pills to deal with the damage done to my back to just saying "fuck it" and letting the pain exist while I move around. Pain medication is far worse than the pain itself due to how it affects my appetite and digestive system.

Rob's article is definitely something that makes me feel a bit better about wanting to challenge my body a bit more. I've taken up dancing and cycling since my collision and I think that it can only get better.

</comment><comment><USER12> This is so f'ing true. I have ankylosing spondylitis, and I'm in pain all the time. My attitude towards the pain is what makes this bearable. While I'm lucky that anti inflammatories and pain medicine are helpful, they aren't something that even gets close to taking the pain completely away. Your attitude towards pain, and the will to live a full and rich life besides the demons that you face are what makes all the difference. The way I look at it is that I have a demon, well most everyone out there has one or maybe several. I can still walk, I'm able to pick up my son most of the time with some effort, and I still live a mostly normal life. The lesson here is that our demons only have the power we let them have, attitude is everything.

</comment><comment><USER13> I am not sure where to start: I was diagnosed 3 yrs ago with multiple congenital cervical spine disorders. Inoperable & impacting 6 of my cervical discs & compressing multiple nerve roots. Also herniated L5/S1 with nerve root compression. Add to that severe depression, numerous neuropathic issues resulted in being prescribed multiple heavy duty opiods & neuropathic pain fixer-upperers :-)!! Then developed more medical conditions with more severe disabling pain in back & legs followed by osteomyelitis. Needless to say I know what severe excruciating chronic pain is & more to the point, it's impact on my life. The latest issue resulted in losing 95% of use & feeling in my right hand & fingers. Am on various antidepressants but recently reduced the doses as I had had enough of the various other side effects. So, how do I exist - I have retained & enhanced my sense of humour & I immerse myself in education regarding my favourite subjects which are IT Security & IT Knowledge in general. I read voraciously, and find that if I can immerse myself in learning new things every day I can push aside the pain so it sits in the background.. it is always there but when I am immersed I can function ( sort of :-) )... sleep suffers; tend to sleep more at my keyboard than in bed!! Cant walk without a walking stick anymore & occassionally lose the plot and get very teary but am now able to side track both the depression & the constant pain on demand... its not easy but it is do-able... it is possible to live with chronic excruciating pain and I believe that it is very much an individual thing but everyone can find a way to do it if they try hard enough & are stubborn enough. Honestly, fighting it is way better than letting it beat you!! Good Luck to you all.

<comment><USER7> We should start the "I hurt all the time and also do IT Security" club. You'd be surprised at the membership. :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Rob -- good article. I've shared it with a couple of people I'm close with in an attempt to help them understand what my life has been like for the past few years. I've been suffering from chronic pain for a little while now, mostly in pretty much every area of my back. I've been through the medial wringer, much like yourself... more doctor's visits (everything from osteopaths to rheumatologists to spinal surgeons, etc.), MRIs, and x-rays than I can count, usually without much luck. I've been on all sort of medications: anti- inflammatory, anti-seizure, opioid, biologic, etc. Nothing even made a dent. I've always worked on getting better, but only very recently did I decide to make it my #1 priority. Since then, I've probably read a dozen books on pain, some of them enlightening and some of them just pure garbage. That included everything from Dr. John Sarno to medical textbooks on the spine to hokey new age books that advocated crystal patches. When I started reading about trigger point therapy and postural recovery, everything clicked for me. Since then, I've been extremely vigilant in taking care of my own trigger points as well as making big strides in my sitting, standing, and walking posture... addressing structural issues. Since then, I've been able to reduce my pain from an average of 6 to a probably a 1-2. I've also reduced my medications to one Tramadol a day as well as some light supplementation (Magnesium). I've made such fantastic progress that I've considered changing my field to one where I can help people in similar situations. I understand you've come to embrace your pain, but it's never too late to cure yourself.

<comment><USER15> @LemonParty - Do you have any recommendations for beginner reading on trigger point therapy? I'd be interested in reading up on it a bit.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> (A little off-topic but) if you are in such chronic pain all of the time, wouldn't that be similar to the case of not feeling pain at all? Would it be possible to hurt yourself and not even know it, or would the pain still increase beyond a certain threshold when you _actually_ hurt yourself?

E.g. Maybe if you broke your leg, you would notice, but what about a sprain/strain? Would it be possible to not even know, and further injure yourself because your didn't modify your behaviour?

<comment> X-Istence I am speaking from a different perspective, I have gout and have had it worsen over the past couple of months while losing massive amounts of weight.

I now have pain in my feet that takes a couple of days to a week to go away with meds. I bite through the pain, but I can also feel when I hurt some other part of my body while working out. The pain is different, has a different intensity and just in general is nothing like the pain from the gout.

One thing it does do is numb pain in general, even with different pain in different parts of my body I have a higher pain tolerance in general, and I feel the pain differently.

<comment><AUTHOR> I know what you mean about the pain feeling different. It's really hard to describe, I imagine it's different for everyone. How are you approaching working out?

<comment> X-Istence I'm just going for it. I figure the sooner I lose the weight, the sooner the gout will go away too.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> >You cultivate stoicism, although you aren't quite sure what it means.

Out of interest: have you read any Stoic (or similar 'acceptance' philosophies, e.g. Epicureanism, Buddhism, Taoism) literature? If so, have you found any of it helpful?

<comment><USER18> I think they can be pretty helpful, not that they're going to eliminate your pain or anything, but a little good perspective can go a long way. After a bunch of reading and thinking and doing (ie practice) it seems much easier to deal with pain and discomfort. They are both still there, but if it's 20 degrees to cold for my clothing it's not that big a deal and awkward situations are actually pretty funny now, even in the moment.

So, the Taoist stuff deals mostly with the nature of reality. Buddhism tends to run the gamut but has a lot to do with your experience, and Epicureanism is sorta like Buddhism, but with more heavy language and serious attempts to remove any hint of internal conflict and paradoxical teaching (those can both be handy teaching tools).

All of them, to varying degrees, teach that you can alleviate suffering through proper response, though it might be more accurate to say you can refrain from creating more suffering. The mind is like the body. When you get cut you clean it and bandage it and leave the thing alone. Anything else directly messing with it is just hindering the process, however, you can help yourself by doing things like making sure you have a good diet and get plenty of rest. The above three teach you about diet and rest and so on, but for your person.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> Worth reading Tim Park's book:

Teach Us to Sit Still: A Sceptic's Search for Health and Healing

[http://www.amazon.co.uk/Teach-Us-Sit-Still- Sceptics/dp/00995...](http://www.amazon.co.uk/Teach-Us-Sit-Still- Sceptics/dp/0099548887)

An accurate review comment:

this autobiographical account of his journey from a life dominated by acute pain to one where a reasonable equilibrium between body and soul enables him to live in relative comfort and healthy productivity.

</comment><comment><USER20> 7 years of misery. Started taking and now abusing oxycodone but better a short while in bliss than pure misery. It's all down hill from here but I don't care as I feel good.

</comment><comment><USER21> This was so on point I started crying while reading it. This sentence hit home 'At first your only real emotion is rage.' It feels like rage is just under surface for me at all times. I hurt all the time. It is just a matter of how much. If the pain goes over a certain number, I become a mess. I always think 'oh no! Is this my NEW norm???' Thank you for writing the article. My husband shared it with me.

</comment><comment><USER22> 10 years of chronic neuropathic pain following surgery have lead me down much the same roller coaster of life. I also try to prioritize balance and calmness, and while occasionally I feel like I'm losing my mind I feel like at least recover faster and get through the next few minutes of pain, and repeat the process all day every day. Good luck to all those who have had to face chronic pain, its a daily battle.

</comment><comment><USER7> I'm a little surprised that no one has brought up Gabor Mate's work -- specifically When The Body Says No (<http://drgabormate.com/writings/books/when-the-body-says-no/>) -- it's a good walk through what is and isn't possible with the weird little pharmacopeia you've got stashed in your head.

</comment><comment><USER23> I just had a similar epiphany, at 45, my chronic pain was a signal I needed to take better care of myself. As such, I think I'm in a good spot to help my other friends and family deal as their bodies start falling apart. As difficult as it is, you need to get your mind right. And you will regress, but you'll be back, a different kind of cycle for you ;)

</comment><comment><USER24> I appreciate the resolve. I have the same affliction (unresolved, unidentified neuropathy), but mine exists in my right cheek and orbital. Sometimes when I'm lying down in the middle of the afternoon with stabbing pains things seem unbearable; but, I persist.

</comment><comment><USER25> Wow I wasn't sure what to expect, amazing writing Rob, gripping, you should write books not code, brilliant. In addition to the wonderful insights you share, this was my favorite part: "You cultivate stoicism, although you aren't quite sure what it means." :)

</comment><comment><USER7> After 15 years of something similar (if not exactly the same thing -- we should talk) I'd suggest that you're in a valley of happiness now, please enjoy it as I can guarantee that it won't last. You're going to cycle back to the other states.

<comment><USER26> I registered an account just so I could reply and confirm your statement. While there are studies to suggest that 'Mindfulness' type approaches like the OP describes helps, there is nothing to suggest it lasts.

Unfortunately it's not a sine wave, it's more like a downhill slope. As you age, it only gets worse. I hate to appear like a dark cloud over the OP's sunny article, but I'm 27 years in. For the first 10 years or so, I too believed it made me stronger, tougher etc. Now I'm just happy to make it stop - whatever it takes.

<comment><USER12> I don't know if I agree. I've had chronic pain since I was 18 (sure it was worse later) so I'm 20 years in. I think attitude has a huge impact. I know I was taking craploads more medicine with less results when I didn't put it in the right perspective. We really can beat our pain if we put our head in the demon's mouth as Jerry Colonna likes to say. There are obviously things that are much worse, I know that sort of thinking really helps me. Google around a little and see how people in wheelchairs are doing marathons or something similar. Makes my pain seem tame by comparison.

<comment><USER26> I agree that attitude certainly helps, I just think it is naive to believe it alone will always be sufficient, and hubris to suggest it can work for everyone.

Having said that - I'm glad it's working for you as well.

<comment><USER12> Definitely, I totally agree with that assessment. I know everyone's pain is different, and chronic pain is never a walk in the park. This isn't going to work for everyone as a magick cure all, but it definitely helps to stay positive.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> I am impressed that you managed to cycle hard enough that such a thing could happen. My best month on the bike was 1000 miles; I can't imagine what you must have done to 'earn' such a 'reward.'

<comment><USER7> My neurogenic pain was caused by a broken wrist. Now it's everywhere.

<comment><USER27> Yikes! That's terrible. I am thankful that I only hurt when I exert myself for long periods or too aggressively. Hitting the pavement does it too but I've been fortunate not to do anything like that recently.

I find the concept that the brain could cause pain to exist where there is no "real" (like sliced/torn nerve endings) fascinating and terrifying at the same time. I didn't even realize that was a thing that could happen 'til I read this article.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> It's not the circumstances that determine who you're gonna be, but how you deal with these problems and pains that come your way...

</comment><comment><USER29> A healthy man has thousands of problems. A sick man only one.

Thank you, for sharing.

</comment><comment><USER30> In the article, he hints at it with his discussion of acceptance, but more directly there have been reports of people dealing better with chronic pain through meditation.

Apparently, it comes down to the same thing: your attitude and emotional response to pain are extremely important.</comment>


Ask HN: Tool to Combine PPT/PPTX Files? - <AUTHOR> I'm working on a curiosity project where I want to split different pptx slideshows into single slides and then rearrange them.
The splitting part was easy enough with [officer](https://github.com/davidgohel/officer) but there aren't much options for putting them back together. I found some VBA scripts (none of which I want to use), and a [perl/js script](https://github.com/adamkewley/ppt-combiner-console/blob/master/pptCombiner.js) which only works on Windows and seems pretty fragile.
Are there any command line tools that could do this? <comment><USER2> Export to a PDF then reorder the PDF pages would by my process which is doable on the command line, wipes out all those distracting item-level animations in the process too. :-)</comment>


Ask HN: I'm building new blog software and would like your feedback - <AUTHOR>

Hi HN,
As the author of a few PHP frameworks that are starting to get more attention, I've been asked to provide documentation for them. Gladly! I love writing documentation.
However, I'm not a fan of the big three blog/CMS systems: Wordpress, Joomla, or Drupal, so I'm building my own. It's called Sankla and I'm marketing it like I would a paid product. If you're interested in being notified when I release the beta, feel free to register on http://sankla.org.
Why am I building my own? Several reasons:

  * I enjoy writing open source software
  * I have a bit of NIH syndrome
  * I want to build lightweight and secure blog software
  * I want to build a flexible content management system/web builder
 I know, it's a lofty goal to go after software that corners a huge chunk of the market, but I think it's possible and I always enjoy a good challenge.
I'm asking if this is something you'd be interested in and if so, what features you'd like to see? So far, the biggest I've seen are a nice API and Markdown support. Sankla has both built in. I'm also doing my best to pay attention to common security vulnerabilities, such as using prepared queries, stopping CSRF attacks, preventing XSS, and man in the middle attacks.
Again, if you'd be interested in something like that, please register on the website and I'll notify you when the beta is launched.
Thank you for everything, HN.
http://sankla.org <comment><USER2> If there was a blog where the writing interface was not completely different from the published blog look itself, I'd blog more often.

So, I'd love a blog which just has an "Add New post" link right at the top. When I click on it, it should add a new blog title and post at the top of the blog (through AJAX), which I can start editing right there, without having to reload the page. Hit publish when done. Come back to edit in-place anytime. Extreme WYSIWYG.

<comment><AUTHOR> Sankla will work similarly to that in that when you start adding a new post, it automatically renders so you'll see what the rendered content will look like.

I do like the idea of doing an inline edit though. Thanks!

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> The more alternatives the merrier. Good Luck!

Well, up to a certain point...</comment>


How software companies die - <AUTHOR> http://fuzz-box.blogspot.com/2011/05/how-software-companies-die.html <comment><USER2> Read that and thought of Ashton Tate which made dBase. The original entrepreneur, George Tate, died of a heart attack. The new CEO, Ed Esber, famously told dBase inventor, Wayne Ratliff, that he wasn't any more important than the guy loading the trucks. Ratliff and a few key developers left. A few years later Esber didn't have a clue what happened to his company which self destructed.

Sad thing is Ratliff started his own database company with some fairly innovative technology for the time. But he was an engineer with no company building skills and it didn't go anywhere.

</comment><comment><USER3> I hope I have the guts to quit when marketing- and sales types take over the company. If they offer me enough money, I might stay, despite the braindeadness.

</comment><comment><USER4> This is why executive succession and search is so important to do right, I think.</comment>


Waterloo students behind new startup boom - <AUTHOR> http://www.wireservice.ca/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1682

<comment><USER2> There is a grain of truth to this! Another company not listed here, which some friends of mine started, is Enflick (<http://www.enflick.com/>).

EDIT: For typos.</comment>


Ask HN: Have you downgraded from Mac OS X Catalina? - <AUTHOR> If yes, to what?
And most importantly Why?<p>I just had enough of the poor bluetooth connectivity issues and my paid Adobe CS6 suite not functioning anymore and downgraded to Mojave. <comment><USER2> I never upgraded to Catalina because, given macOS's stability track record in the recent years, I've made it a habit to wait until at least 10.x.5 before upgrading.</comment>


Show HN: Clone Patrol – Hide Your Identity Inside a Crowd of Clones - <AUTHOR> https://clonepatrol.com/index.html <comment><AUTHOR> TLDR: This is digital identity obfuscation for web privacy. Advertising and marketing networks have gotten exceptionally good at tracking people across the web. For example, if you have a Google account, you can go into your Settings for Google Ads to see your Age/Gender inference.[1]

[1] [https://www.google.com/ads/preferences](https://www.google.com/ads/preferences)

</comment><comment><USER2> I can't believe people really care that much about seeing ads for pet food after Googling for the vet that they would let something like this run constantly in the background. Absolutely unfathomable to me.

</comment><comment><USER3> How is this better than switching to DuckDuckGo and Brave Browser?

</comment><comment><USER4> This looks really great! Any plans to release on Firefox soon?</comment>


A plan to build a ship tunnel - <AUTHOR> http://newatlas.com/stad-ship-tunnel-interview-terje-andreassen/48480/ <comment><USER2> Site working again, but headline still false:

Built in 1679, 165m long: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malpas_Tunnel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malpas_Tunnel)

Built in 1832, 3333m long: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canal_de_Bourgogne](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canal_de_Bourgogne)

Built in 1927, 7120m long: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rove_Tunnel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rove_Tunnel)

The first two are canal tunnels not at sea level, but the last one is connected to the Mediterranean at sea level.

<comment><USER3> Absolutely. In Britain the trailblazer was the 2633m Harecastle Tunnel, built by James Brindley in the 1770s: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harecastle_Tunnel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harecastle_Tunnel) .

TFA describes the Norwegian tunnel as "the world's first ship tunnel of any significant size", but "significant" changes as engineering advances, and Harecastle was certainly significant at the time - contemporaries thought it an unearthly achievement. Scepticism was such that it was nicknamed an "air castle" (after "castles in the air"). It was the absolute limit of what was believed possible with tunnelling technology through such rock: the 7ft width defined the size of locks and bridges for the rest of the Grand Trunk, or Trent & Mersey, Canal. In turn, this defined the size of the English "narrowboat", the dominant inland craft for cargo carrying and, since the 1960s, pleasure boating. (In modern terms this would be called "boat" rather than "ship", but in contemporary documents it was less clear, and it seems likely that the size was chosen as a half-ship - half the width of the Mersey Flat sailing vessels, on the river with which the canal connected.)

The original Harecastle Tunnel is now closed due to subsidence, but the 1820s replacement is still operational, and the rest of the Trent & Mersey Canal is fully navigable and very enjoyable: I moored a boat on it for six years.

(For anyone interested in finding out about Britain's 2,500-mile network of historic canals, here's the charity that runs them: [https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/](https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/) )

<comment><USER4> 87 ft is vastly wider than any of those examples. It's the difference between a boat and a Ship.

The general definition is a boat is small enough for a ship to carry it. Narrowboat even uses the term boat.

<comment><USER3> Sure. The point is that this isn't a particularly significant "first" (as the original headline claimed), it's an incremental advance in tunnelling technology. If James Brindley had been able to build Harecastle to Mersey Flat dimensions, he would have done. But tunnels have steadily got broader, deeper, longer and air-draft-ier since Harecastle and Malpas. There was no sudden moment when someone invented and built the ship tunnel.

(Incidentally, the "general definition" you cite is one used by the US Naval Institute, but not universally recognised. As the former editor of a monthly news-stand boating magazine it's certainly not one I've ever used. In the UK, for example, you can legally define your small boat as a ship by signing up to the Small Ships Register.)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> The Soviets had a neat submarine base that was a curving tunnel through a hill open to sea at both ends - now a museum. Designed to take a 100kt direct hit:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_museum_complex_Balaklava](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_museum_complex_Balaklava)

<comment><USER6> That's very James-Bondy :)

<comment><USER5> Actually, the UK did consider an underground base for its Polaris subs (probably around Lochalsh) but that got ruled out pretty quickly due to the enormous costs. The base also got relocated because the US wanted its UK submarine base to be close to an airport and the UK base ended up being close to the US base at Holy Loch.

Which is why the UK has its missile subs based so close to a major city!

See: The Silent Deep by James Jinks and Peter Hennessy

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Site down: cached at [http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:YX9ObTm...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:YX9ObTmWy2EJ:newatlas.com/stad- ship-tunnel-interview-terje-andreassen/48480/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

</comment><comment><USER8> If you get a chance, the Paw Paw Tunnel is a great hiking opportunity on the old C&O canal. At 950m, it's pretty impressive.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paw_Paw_Tunnel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paw_Paw_Tunnel)

They actually built this during the days of black powder.

</comment><comment><USER9> The volume of solid rock removed must be approximately 3 million cubic metres (1700 × 37 × 26.5 x ~2) rather than the 3 billion cubic metres described in the article.

</comment><comment><USER10> Asking because I really don't know: How are fluctuations in water level dealt with safely with this sort of thing?

<comment><USER11> Gate off the water for the canal separate from the sea, so that it doesn't fluctuate. Usually this involves building a set of locks so that ships can traverse between the different levels - basically, a pair of floodgates with mechanisms to drain water into and out of the pound between them. Push ship in, lock the near gate, drain or fill the pound, unlock other end.

<comment><USER12> No, that's not how it's going to work. This proposed tunnel has no locks, the tunnel is open to the ocean on both ends.

<comment><USER11> You sure? 100 ships a day means 14 minutes per ship, and a lock cycle takes 10-20 minutes, so that's awfully suggestive to me. OTOH, I'm not sure of the relative difficulty and expense of adding height to a tunnel vs creating and operating a lock - I'd assume at some length it makes more sense to use a lock, since tunnel cost scales with length and lock cost doesn't.

<comment><USER12> I don't know why the limit is 100 per day, I'm just going by the article & the pictures in it which very clearly show a tunnel open to the ocean with no lock system.

The photos also show a mountain going straight into the ocean, which means raising the ship with a lock wouldn't save you any money, since you'd need an unbroken sequence of locks going all the way to the top of the mountain.

<comment><USER11> It'd save money by reducing the height of the tunnel you need to bore.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> This reminds me of the Magdeburg Water Bridge, which is exactly what it sounds like - a bridge where a canal (big enough for large ships) crosses over a river.</comment>


Wouldn't it be nice to have "Automator" for iPhone? - <AUTHOR>

An application similar to "Automator" for OSX could be very useful on the iPhone. E.g.: I can create a script that sends an SMS to my wife every day I leave work, so she might let me know if I need to pick up milk from the store. Of course this script would need to be location-based. Maybe in the end this would be useful to implement something like RescueTime. This could also be useful to track progress of field workers. Do you know if something like this already exists? <comment><USER2> AFAIK the iPhone only allows pseudo background processes ([http://www.iphonebuzz.com/new-iphone-sdk-allows-pseudo- backg...](http://www.iphonebuzz.com/new-iphone-sdk-allows-pseudo-background- processes-252458.php)), so the app would have to be running when you leave work. Apple could make this kind of thing happen if they developed the app themselves, or you could make this app for the Android. See Locale: (<http://www.localeandroid.com/>).</comment>


Ask HN: Any successful company in the Valley founded by First generation immigrants - <AUTHOR> By successful, I mean valuation/market cap > $100 million.
Many founding teams have first generation immigrants, but they either have American cofounders or these first generation immigrant founders came to USA when they were very young (before college).
Just want to know if any Silicon Valley company play the game in "hard mode": 1st generation immigrants + English is not their native language + no American citizen cofounders + they come to the states at an "old age" (post college)
Polyvore is pretty close but it's not big enough. Stripe is pretty close, but the cofounders are native English speaker :) <comment><USER2> Excluding native english speakers means you exclude UK, Canada, Israel, South Africa and India which is a substantial part of the world when it comes to tech founders.

But even then there's plenty of large valley companies with foreign founders, Evernote and Udacity off the top of my head.

</comment><comment><USER3> Jan Koum of What's App would fit this if the criteria of his cofounders also not being American wasn't there.

</comment><comment><USER4> Stripe

</comment><comment><USER5> Tango</comment>


My journey into the centre of a dark political world, and how I escaped - <AUTHOR> http://www.mcgilldaily.com/2014/11/everything-problematic/

<comment><USER2> She seems to be mixing apples and oranges. She talks about occupying classrooms and being in militant demonstrations and says she's now all grown up and doesn't do that now. This is very normal - young people are impatient, passionate, tempestuous, etc. Older organizers generally are not doing that stuff as much.

Then she associates this with changes in political positions. This is something else, it may be connected for people like her, but not others. There are plenty of people in their fifties with "radical" positions who are writing essays, organizing voter drives, walking picket lines, volunteering at a community radio station and so forth. They are in it for the long haul, and usually getting more done. Going to a demonstration and yelling at a cop might give someone an adrenaline rush. However, long-term efforts to work with others on seemingly minor changes to attain a broader goal is usually what gets more done.

She seems to think there is some connection between wanting the NDP elected, or for US cabinet officials to not be former Wall Street CEOs, to young people ranting and raving in the street. There isn't. She has little to say about the left - she was not part of it, then she became a Fox News caricature of what an organizer is (scratch that, she probably thought of herself as an "activist", not an organizer), then is unhappy and renounces it all. She was never really on the left at all. They're really scraping the bottom of the barrel for this "God that failed" stuff nowadays. "I was a teenage agitator"

<comment><USER3> Sure, "people in their fifties" (and of all other ages) are doing a variety of things to promote social justice. But I don't think it is helpful to put down Aurora's effort -- including yelling at the police at protests. Besides, "getting things done" is not always an innocent or simple approach. And having nuanced views does (slowly) shape the world.

I don't think she intends to give up and renounce it all (in fact it sounds like she's looking for new spaces to take action. She (quite candidly) relates her struggle mixing maturing political views with the clichey activist scene in Montreal -- which as she correctly points out (I too live in Montreal) is like any subculture, ripe with dogmatism.

Just because she doesn't fall into your category of left doesn't mean she isn't a part of it. That is the very problem.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> _The True Believer: Thoughts On The Nature Of Mass Movements_ is a 1951 social psychology book by American writer Eric Hoffer that discusses the psychological causes of fanaticism.

The book analyzes and attempts to explain the motives of the various types of personalities that give rise to mass movements; why and how mass movements start, progress and end; and the similarities between them, whether religious, political, radical or reactionary. Hoffer argues that even when their stated goals or values differ mass movements are interchangeable, that adherents will often flip from one movement to another, and that the motivations for mass movements are interchangeable. Thus, religious, nationalist and social movements, whether radical or reactionary, tend to attract the same type of followers, behave in the same way and use the same tactics and rhetorical tools. As examples, the book often refers to Communism, Fascism, National Socialism, Christianity, Protestantism, and Islam.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_True_Believer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_True_Believer)

</comment><comment><USER5> The tricky thing about beliefs is that they are so often instrumental to authoritarian uses. Altermeyer's _The Authoritarians_[0] documents some of the mentalities that take hold - although it's primarily focused on the "right wing" of authoritarianism, it also describes how a "left wing authoritarian" also exists but is less prevalent.

For my part, I've realized that at any moment of my life I will have some limited view of the world as a belief structure. I can intentionally cultivate beliefs that seem more logical(e.g. by writing down and rehearsing proverbs) but this ultimately just moves around the lens with which I view things; it doesn't "progress" my thinking to a higher state, because there isn't one. The worst thing that could happen is not believing "wrong things," but getting stuck in a state in which I can't move around my lens any more. If my lens is not moving, then it's like I am no longer politically alive, I am a rock that someone else throws.

[0] [http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians...](http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf)

</comment><comment><USER6> I thought this was going to be about exposing trotskyist fronts (lots of trotskyists in Montreal student politics). Bit disappointed.

It does remind me of what 1970s maoists write about their experience.</comment>


Do Not Track - <AUTHOR> http://www.npr.org/2012/04/10/150335249/do-not-track-web-browser-option-gains-steam

<comment><AUTHOR> Where is this Do Not Track button?</comment>


The Next-Generation Browser: No URL Bar - <AUTHOR> http://www.conceivablytech.com/7533/products/the-next-generation-browser-no-url-bar

<comment><USER2> The more things change the more they stay the same.

Remember AOL's use of keywords to go to specific pages for companies before the days of the web? A future without a URL bar gives Google that much more power, which is just how they want it.

In that future you'll type all your urls in the google search box, and they get to show you ads for similar sites or topics, assuming you are lucky enough to be near the top.

I wonder how long before Google introduces a 'keyword' product where you can register a specific keyword to go straight to your domain.

<comment><USER3> > In that future you'll type all your urls in the google search box

The URL box and the search box have been merged in just about every current browser in some form or the other already. To most people, they're actually the same thing.

The scarier implications of this could be for phishing, which the article touches on. I'm expecting some kind of visual cue on tabs that are HTTPS eventually.

> I wonder how long before Google introduces a 'keyword' product where you can > register a specific keyword to go straight to your domain.

They've had it forever: I'm Feeling Lucky.

<comment><USER2> > The URL box and the search box have been merged in just about every current > browser in some form or the other already. To most people, they're actually > the same thing.

The semantics are different though.

Type in 'books.com' in your URL bar.

Type in 'books.com' in the Google search box.

Not the same. The former is disappearing.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I'm usually for removing every bit of unnecessary chrome, but this strikes me as going too far.

URLs aren't optional if we want to have a world wide web. Otherwise it's just AOL redux. If URLs become this thing that only experienced users know about (or that we allow naive users to forget about) we're losing something important.

<comment><USER5> how many of your friends telephone numbers do you actually know?

<comment><USER6> Most of them, I'd say I have 30-40 memorized easily.

<comment><USER7> Surely you must know you are way outside the norm.

<comment><USER8> No kidding, most people use actual phone books or their mobile phone equivalent.

The key difference between phone numbers and URLs is that everyone recognises that phone numbers exist, or at least know they're meaningful.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> URLs will continue to be an important part of the browsing experience. <http://www.useit.com/alertbox/990321.html> Jakob Nielsen wrote this in 1999 and I don't think much has changed, as recent updates to the article at the end show.

I love browsers that get out of the way, so displaying the address bar in a more intelligent way is something I welcome. I doubt it will disappear entirely.

</comment><comment><USER10> Phishers will most certainly love this. The users used to have a chance to see they were not on a legitimate site. Now that information is hidden at browser level.

<comment><USER11> I don't want the URL bar going, but...

Users don't know if it's a legitimate site anyway. Plus Google offers phishing protection.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Having tried Chrome's "Hide the toolbar" feature in Chrome Canary, I can honestly say I prefer having the URL bar hidden. There will be some growing pains, for instance extension badges are not yet available under this setting, and the back/forward/Wrench buttons look a little out of place, but I do agree. No URL bars is going to be the standard pretty soon.

</comment><comment><USER12> What I don't get about this trend (I must be missing something) about software hiding every toolbar (and sometimes useful ones) to get more "vertical space" like "vertical space" was a very valuable asset, while the computer industry is forcing everyone to screens with less vertical resolution...

Moreover, since most websites are fixed-width and that computers are moving to 16/9, I don't get why browsers (I know, not Opera) make it very hard to make vertical toolbars (like shortcuts and bookmarks, for example) on the sides...

<comment><USER3> Chrome does have a side tabs option, and I'm sure maximizing horizontal space will become important going forward.

<comment><USER13> Where?

<comment><USER14> about:flags

<comment><USER15> Sorry but I can't find it on Chrome OS X (v. 11.0.696.68). Which channel are you using ?

<comment><USER14> Ah, you might need the dev channel, I'm on 13.0.767.1.

<comment><USER15> Switching right now. Thank you.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I strongly recommend using Pentadactyl (formerly Vimperator). It removes a lot of UI kludge and simply makes browsing a better experience.

<http://i.imgur.com/UwhLg.png> <http://dactyl.sourceforge.net/pentadactyl/>

</comment><comment><USER17> We have a lot to thank the Chrome devs for. I'm keen to see how this new experiment fares. So long as I can still cmd-L and type with pattern matching, I'm good.

</comment><comment><USER18> the disappearing URL bar has been happening in the Android browser for as long as I can remember

</comment><comment><USER19> Another potential alternative to removing the URL Bar could be to camouflage it. Instead of keeping it white, allow it to blend in with the rest of the browser's color scheme and UI when not active.

</comment><comment><USER20> Old browsers like lynx, w3m, ... didn't have url bar either. :-)

</comment><comment><USER21> Phishers won't like this because there will exist things like Web Of Trust that help identify bad sites. I'm assuming Google will provide the same functionality.

</comment><comment><USER22> How would I easily modify GET requests without a URL bar?

</comment><comment><USER23> You'll have to pry my URL bar out of my cold dead hands.

</comment><comment><USER24> Google simply wants to make true that proposition that the web browser needs to be invisible to the user, so people consider more and more web apps over native apps. Remember, a good rule for UI design is that the UI should be invisible to the user.

</comment><comment><USER25> If somebody makes it easy to show my favorites without using a separate toolbar for it, I think that will be far more cleaner UI than show/hiding address bar.

</comment><comment><USER26> Hide navigation bar -> Ctrl+L to enter a URL. Handy on a netbook, arguably annoying on a desktop.

<comment><USER7> I'm already using ctrl-L to focus the navigation bar every time. It's very convenient.</comment></comment>


The Art of Building and Maintaining an Unpopular MMO - <AUTHOR> http://www.benjamincoe.com/blog/index.php?entry=entry100117-162446

<comment><USER2> I know some people still minimize the importance of good design, but it seems particularly important for games. The site that this article is about is <http://www.hackwars.net/> and it's very poorly designed. It's simply not exciting or intriguing, even though the game itself sounds interesting.

<comment><USER3> I agree completely, I think that the site for HackWars (which I happen to be partially responsible for maintaining) is a horrible usability failure. We went with the Drupal CMS early on, which has a template system that, with my limited CSS skills, I find really annoying to work with -- I've tried a couple times to enlist someone with a panache for design and usability to rework the website, without any real success. Having said this I'll attest to the fact that the game is neat.

Look What You've Set in Motion ;)

[8:39:32 PM] johnny_heart: Internet people are really ragging on our shitty drupal theme.

[8:39:45 PM] johnny_heart: I sure agree that it looks like balls.

[8:39:55 PM] draconisravenix: Why do you think I said that in my Twitter.

[8:42:31 PM] johnny_heart: honestly I'd love to basically have your template rather than ours ;)

[8:42:38 PM] johnny_heart: it looks about fifty times better.

[8:42:39 PM] draconisravenix: >:D

[8:42:44 PM] draconisravenix: iWin.

[8:43:07 PM] draconisravenix: I'll get it to HW (with some modifications, small ones) asap.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Yeah I agree, this website's design is abhorrent. Any website worth its salt should:

a) look like an iPhone

b) have boobs all over it even though boobs have nothing to do with the site

c) look like an iPhone running an app involving boobs

I should know, I work for a major web design firm.

</comment><comment><USER5> _"Skills reflected ... port scanning other systems ... unlock APIs ... maliciously install on other systems ..."_

They should have named it CrackWars...

Hacking is not about breaking into computer systems, unless you're ignorant about the true meaning of the word.

<comment><USER3> I think, being a fictional role-playing game, Hack Wars is about hacking in more the "Hack The Gibson" sort of way, than the "learn about how things work" sort of way. The Blog post itself, however, is discussing this game in terms of the learning experience involved (for better or for worse) in cobbling the game together.

<comment><USER6> does anyone outside of hacker news think of "hacking" as "learn about how things work"? i always thought pg made this up. whenever i talk to people outside of hacker news i say "maker" instead of hacker.

rambling: i like to think i've found the awesomeness that is hacker news (and ycombinator) _despite_ poor naming choices. the 'y' in ycombinator combined with photos of men and combined with the classical hacker culture really lowered my expectations for this community....then i discovered it was totally different. ps - even knowing lambda calculus and fixed point calculations, i still half thought the choice of 'y' was ostentatiously male. on the other hand, it wouldn't be the first time i had a skewed perspective of language and culture.

<comment><USER3> Fairly worthwhile documentary discussing the etymology of the term Hacker:

<http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5464925144369700635#>

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Java game, drupal default website, pass.

<comment><USER3> Here's the cool thing about a Java-Applet-based game, it can run OpenGL in your web-browser, that's all I'm saying ;) also, the game was built three years ago, around the time my friends and I were insanely addicted to Runescape in the computer lab at university (this certainly helped drive the technology choice that has been haunting me to this day).</comment></comment>


Why Groupon Needs to Go Private to Rebuild Its Vision - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2015/12/27/why-groupon-needs-to-go-private-to-rebuild-its-vision/ <comment><USER2> OH, no... no. Public or private, Groupon is done.</comment>


I Keep Arriving Back at Perl - <AUTHOR> http://blog.sam-pointer.com/2011/02/07/i-keep-arriving-back-at-perl <comment><USER2> This article is actually quite revealing. The modern Perl movement clearly passed this guy by; this is clear from several statements in the article, beginning with his second sentence. Perl is just seen as it was ten years ago.

So the challenge for those of us who like Perl and would like to see better coding practices in the language is to spread the modern Perl word beyond the confines of the Perl echo chamber.

This clearly isn't happening yet: instead Perl is seen as an ancient language only good for knocking up a quick script in an emergency.

Oh, and loewenskind: if you _had_ read the article, you'd see it's far from 'blatant fanboy nonsense'. At best it is a mean and backhanded compliment.

<comment><USER3> You know, the Perl community could just release Perl 6 finally so they had the "shiny new language" to point to whenever someone talks about the old days of Perl.

<comment><USER4> The latest version of perl is revision 5 version 12.

The 12 is the major version number.

There is also a separate language called perl6 that we steal ideas from. But while the perl and perl6 communities share a fair few members, they aren't really the same community.

If you find this confusing, I suggest you do what myself - and a number of the Rakudo Perl6 developers - are finding ourselves doing, and referring to the perl6 spec as "Camelia" instead to reduce the number of people confusing it with perl.

<comment><USER5> Zero _is_ a number, but you confuse people that way.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Did it last week. Been tooling around with Ruby (MacRuby actually), and had a data processing task that required round tripping to Excel - CPAN to the rescue.

Because of it's age, there's just a greater number of codebases out there that can do esoteric and unusual stuff - I tend to think that languages that share easy interop through a shared runtime (Cocoa/Macruby, Java/Scala/JRuby, etc.) might be the future of that concept.

<comment><USER7> Why didn't you install a gem for spreadsheet manipulation?

<comment><USER6> Everyone involved is on a Mac, and the ruby code to control Excel is OLE based, thus Windows only. Also, the files are .xls, which doesn't have a writer method in ruby (that I'm aware of), although there is an .xlsx library.

Perl's ParseExcel and WriteExcel worked great in this case, and easily handle edge cases like leading zeros on zipcodes, formatting directives, etc.

As always YMMV.

<comment><USER8> I've used the Ruby spreadsheet gem with success. It's a bit old, but works ok.

<http://spreadsheet.rubyforge.org/>

<comment><USER6> Ah, a port of Perl's module... good to know.

Makes you wonder how soon it'll be before languages that are out of favor but have great libraries written for them are mainly viewed as targets for mining ideas and techniques, like how the various open source kernel developers use each other's kernels as driver documentation.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I wonder if he's returning to perl because its inherently a better language for parsing, or if he's just incredibly comfortable with the succinct regex and string parsing syntax in perl? I've found myself going back to perl, but usually because I know how to do it in perl and I'm too time-pressed to learn how to do it in python, shell scripting, or something else

<comment><USER10> Perl can definitely be more compact than Python for regex and parsing but I am surprised that he need to move from Ruby to Perl. Ruby borrows much of the regex and quote syntax from Perl.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I'm not trying to start a war here. Python and Ruby both have their place. Just saying, this is a ruby users problem, generally speaking, not a python user's problem.

I actually find that this is one of the weaknesses of ruby (vs python): People who prefer it also know perl and can stand working with perl. The python people can't stand perl largely, and make a billion python modules. So, we have lots of python modules duplicating perl modules cause after python, people were unwilling to return to perl.

<comment><USER12> I am not aware of a significant number of Ruby developers who jump back to Perl instead of writing Ruby libraries. I'm not sure where you got that impression from.

<comment><USER11> Ruby developers I've worked with who've done exactly what the guy in the article did?

"Yo Sam, what's the .pl file. Is that from a tool? Naw, the perl library is really nice...I'd have had to write the parser if I did it in Ruby"

Most of the Ruby developers I know are in their 30's and all but 2 know perl. That may be the difference.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I was a passionate PERL developer for many years. Then, one day, I met Ruby.

I don't think I will ever go back, mostly because I love how Ruby does objects and it has a nicer syntax.

<comment><USER14> Judging from your caps, I'm guessing that was back in 1987? It's been "Perl" since 1991 :)

<comment><USER15> Actually it has been Perl since 1987. The Practical Extraction and Report Language/Pathologically Eclectic Rubbish Lister joke has been part of the language from the start.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I was a perl enthusiast in the day. But those times are long gone. But I must agree when in a pinch and I need string manipulation or some quick script that is just bit to complicated for bash to handle I'll write some perl :)

<comment><USER14> As a "not old" Perl programmer, I am puzzled by all these old-timers who feel the need to say they "aren't into Perl anymore." That's fine. I'm not into Windows anymore, but I don't go around telling everyone :)

It seems to me the people who "aren't into Perl anymore" were not the gurus who built CPAN. Maybe it's fair to say that Perl isn't that into you, either? (All in good fun :)

<comment><USER17> The problem with Perl is that those that "aren't into Perl anymore." are louder than those who are.

<comment><USER18> Please don't say that. The people who are into it are too loud as it is. If someone popped up every now and then and said "Yea, it was a great ride into work this morning with my horse & buggy." Of course most people's response is going to be "hrm, yea I've rode in one of those before but it doesn't make much practical sense now".

NOTE: I'm not saying that perl is literally as obsolete as a horse & buggy but rather for most programmers to day it may as well be.

<comment><USER14> > it doesn't make much practical sense now

It helps to read the artice? Anyway, it's my goal to avoid "most programmers."

<comment><USER18> Again, my comment isn't about the article.

<comment><USER14> FYI, the article is shorter than all your comments. _cough_

<comment><USER18> Which further illustrates my point. What is the point of posting 4 or 5 paragraphs from someone clueless about the subject they're talking about?

<comment><USER14> Everything illustrates your point, methinks :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> I certainly feel the same pull. My time on Hacker News has led me to pursue Python vigorously and I have found that there are certain things that Perl is just less verbose with. The thing that I don't like about it is that is so easy for n00bs to screw up and it's very easy to write poor Perl code. CPAN/easy_install... it's two jelly bellys in the same bag to me.

</comment><comment><USER20> Would it be allowed to "package" a library implemented in Perl as a component in an iPhone app? Lua is allowed for implementing "a part" of the functionality in many apps. What if the Perl libraries were packaged as source-less runtimes with the ability to compile of eval?

</comment><comment><USER18> TL;DR: I sometimes need to do some scripting and I use perl because I know it.

So what? Flagged. This is blatant fanboy nonsense. Nothing remotely of interest here.

<comment><USER21> I guess this is supposed to be a discussion-starter. The author talks about some things that are slightly controversial.

<comment><USER18> I didn't see anything very controversial for Hacker News. Perhaps for perlmonks.</comment></comment></comment>