Pebble's next step - david-given https://blog.getpebble.com/2016/12/07/fitbit/ <comment><USER2> I'm quite angry. This sucks so bad. I "ordered" a Time 2 via Kickstarter.

I'm glad they are refunding me, but that makes me think... WTF, did they not produce any Time 2's? Or are they all going to the landfill? How long have they been knowing that they are going to be insolvent? This doesn't happen overnight! Was the last Kickstarter a gamble?

Why does everybody have to aim for total market dominance to be successful? They overreached and now the customers suffer. There should be a place for "small" manufacturer selling a niche product ("small" with a certain understatement like German "Mittelstand" enterprizes - I mean Pebble sold millions of units). If they had to increase the price by 10% to be sustainable, they still would have smashed the Kickstarter.

Sometimes I think there is a secret cabal conspiring so we can't have nice things ;-). The same one that decided that cell phone batteries have to be non-removable, touchscreens glossy, and wearables either mini-smartphones or bluetooth-step-counters.

<comment><USER3> > Was the last Kickstarter a gamble?

_All_ Kickstarters are gambles. Their messaging[1] is pretty clear in the fact that you aren't buying a product, you're contributing money with the hope that the maker will deliver on their promises.

[1] [https://www.kickstarter.com/blog/kickstarter-is-not-a- store](https://www.kickstarter.com/blog/kickstarter-is-not-a-store)

<comment><USER2> Right, but I meant a gamble on their side, not the buyers'. Like when MtGox lost their bitcoins and ran as a fractional reserve trying to cover what happened. Or an actual addicted gambler trying to cut their losses by playing more. I wonder when they learned they were going out of business, and if the last Kickstarter was just a Hail Mary...

<comment><USER4> They probably thought a big KS would convince investors to give them couple hundred million.

What they should have done is cut costs and develop 10x fewer features, let the community grow slowly but organically and wait out the bad times.

<comment><USER5> "What they should have done is cut costs and develop 10x fewer features, let the community grow slowly but organically and wait out the bad times."

It's easy to say that, but when you are up against the Apple/Samsung type companies who have _much_ deeper pockets, don't have to wait out bad times, have the ability to lean on vendors, have contracts in place with manufacturing and the supply chain to efficiently deliver the product, it might not be realistic to do that. On top that, as others here have said, once you take VC money, there isn't really an option to go slowly and let the community grow.

<comment><USER6> > there isn't really an option to go slowly and let the community grow.

Sure there is. Just not while also being the dominant, or one of the dominant players in the industry when there is competition form a bit name. Pebble didn't _have_ to be a dominant player, they could have positioned themselves differently if they wanted. Both paths are a gamble, but if it comes to a small company I own trying to compete with Apple/Samsung/Google and it's obvious their resources give them an edge (which they almost always do), then I think I would try to position myself to net necessarily compete with them directly (e.g. be the more hacker friendly device, don't shoot for the luxury market, find some cool thing they aren't offering, etc).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I'm sad/angry/depressed as any Pebbler right now, so I won't repeat those comments. Instead, since this is HN after all, let me ask - what shall we do?

In a year or two, when my current Pebble Time fails, I'd love an equivalent smartwatch to be available. Since the market doesn't seem to want it, how can we make it happen anyway?

Features I'm looking for are, in order of priority:

      - always-on screen, preferably color (like Pebble Time), but monochromatic will do
      - open SDK for writing software for the watch
      - battery life at least the one like Pebble's - 5-7 days
      - *zero* dependency on cloud for it to work
      - basic, standard suite of sensors onboard - compass/magnetometer/accelerometer, maybe a mike
      - elegant form factor

Now I can go the DIY route (I have a friend with experience in making smartwatches from ground-up, though I'd look at some SOCs instead of going the uC + separate sensors route - to save on watch size). Many of us here could do it. But honestly, I have shit ton of other stuff to do, and I'd rather _pay_ for such a watch and enjoy the ecosystem, just like I did with Pebbles. And if everyone goes the DIY route, and there won't be some standardization along the way, there will be no community. Any idea how to coordinate and make this happen? Maybe a community, open-hardware design + crowdfunding for production?

<comment><USER8> I feel like I'm starting to sound like a fanboy - but it's because I've had other smart watches and it's just _so much better_. Why not consider garmin? Not sure if their SDK is going to hit the mark as I'm guessing you want complete control and it's definitely not that, but they have everything else you've asked for.

[https://developer.garmin.com/connect- iq/sdk/](https://developer.garmin.com/connect-iq/sdk/)

<comment><USER9> Well, they're three times the price. That's a bit hard to swallow, honestly.

A Pebble is a nice gadget. The Garmin (looking at garmin.com, clicking the first thing that looks like a watch) is close to a month of rent.

I believe you when you state that you're satisfied. On the other hand, I really don't feel that this is in the Pebble replacement league.

<comment><USER10> The Garmin Vivoactive HR (which supports their app platform, has GPS and optical HR) was on sale for $170 on Black Friday. It periodically will go on sale for this price.

<comment><USER9> Thanks for that. Looking at the specs it seems to have equivalent battery life (ignoring GPS, which is fair), is just as water proof and generally looks like an alternative.

I'm not sure I like the looks of the thing (but then again, pictures are bad and I should get my hands on one first) and I've no idea about their app platform yet.

Do you happen to know if this works completely offline, ignoring cloud offerings? Can I track whatever I want to track and keep it on the device and/or my phone only?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I am so sad about this. I had told myself that at least I'd get a Time 2 and a Core, and stave myself off before the sadness hits again that Pebble is gone.

Pebble's products were an excellent example of lateral technology. No need for high DPI on your watch, because they made something that looks good with few pixels. Making battery life a priority in a world of WiFi-enabled pressure cookers.

Even when the battery ran out you still got 24 hours of a watch that would at least tell the time!

I have no idea if it is possible to produce something like Pebbles at low quantities, but I would love to see an open design with similar specs. I think these watches are better than anything else out there, and it's sad the design is going to disappear.

<comment><USER12> >Making battery life a priority in a world of WiFi-enabled pressure cookers.

I literally wear my Time Steel for 23 hours and 45 minutes per day. The only time it's charging and not on my wrist is when I'm in the shower, and over the course of a regular day it never drops below 80%. If I'm going away for a weekend I don't even have to bother with the charger.

<comment><USER13> I charge my first gen Pebble literally once a week. Monday morning, I get to work, and put my pebble on charge. By the time stand-up happens a couple of hours later (my first meeting of the day) it's back on my wrist and good to go for the next week.

I was aiming to get a new Pebble after Christmas, as mine suffers from that screen corruption glitch that plagued the first gens.

I expect this is actually part of the problem, and likely affects many smartwatch producing companies: If it wasn't for the screen glitch, I wouldn't be replacing my watch. It works, does everything I need, and speed isn't an issue. A colour display would be nice, but it's far from important to me. I'm sure the same is true for many Joe Average consumers. There isn't the same impetus to frequently upgrade a watch.

<comment><USER12> I had the same screen glitch with my Kickstarter edition OG Pebble, then bounced around to other smart watches until I landed again on the Time Steel which has been nothing but perfect.

But you're right. Much like the cell phone market which appears to be slowing down, the minor improvements made in the tech for smart watches don't appear to actually be worth buying if you already have the current version that isn't broken. Unfortunately, the software Pebbles run is so straightforward that even planned obsolescence through required updates wouldn't have been a viable option like it is for cell phones. Y'know, the updates that correct dangerous security vulnerabilities while at the same time crippling old hardware by introducing new, unnecessary features in the software? No Pebble owner would've bought (for lack of a better word) that justification and upgraded.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Considering that Pebble is stopping product development, cancelling orders, ending warranties, ending support, and essentially completely shutting down I find the positive tone of this post and the Kickstarter update post to be nearly unbelievable.

I know we see plenty of "our incredible journey" posts filled with optimism, but euphemistic language and dozens of photos of watches and happy people and more watches is jarring.

It's not a shame to try hard at something and fail. But it is a shame to fail and pretend you succeeded. We can see through you.

<comment><USER15> Indeed, the tone, headline, and imagery are bizarrely incongruous to the gravity of the message. I have to assume that internally they're just trying to make sense of a difficult situation and PR is not one of their strengths. One recalls that the first stage of grief is denial...

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> You know, Pebble has garnered one of the best group of loyal customers I know of: well-off techies.

Had they came to the community and said, "hey we are losing sales and we need everyone to pitch in $10 / year for software support (maybe a web interface for fitness or something) I guarantee a few hundred thousand people would have done it.

Had they shared a coupon with the community (i.e. email add campaign, or add on watch - "buy one, get one half off" for christmas they would have probably had a large bump in orders. Although I recognize this would be a mild annoyance, I can also guarantee they would have sold plenty of units.

This simply seems like poor management and it's frustrating because it's the best smart watch I can find at the moment. It does exactly what I want, is cheaper than the competition, and is dead simple to use.

WTF pebble, you had the product people loved - you just didn't market it well.

<comment><USER17> This is exactly right. 100s of thousands of well off techies strap your product to our body and the best deal you could arrange is to put a bullet in the companies head?

It seems very strange they are basically just shutting down. That has to be an ego driven decision on the FitBit side - they wanted to kill Pebble. Are they even going to use the brand name? The combination of: working production facility, users in the wild, and (the biggest asset) a developer community had to have some value. Now that the deal is done there is no chance to pry that out of publicly traded FitBit, but it seems like this could have had a better outcome.

<comment><USER18> >This is exactly right. 100s of thousands of well off techies strap your product to our body and the best deal you could arrange is to put a bullet in the companies head?

Actually, I think what happened is that Eric, the CEO, is now a multi- millionaire.

So, this is more of a success story than most of us might consider savory to think about.

<comment><USER19> ? As founder he held common stock, which would be worthless now.

<comment><USER5> There are lots of ways around that. His stock is worthless, sure, but he probably has something else, whether it's a huge retention bonus (cash or Fitbit stock, which is public and can be sold), an executive-level salary at Fitbit, or some combination of the two. There's also the possibility that he sold some of his equity to investors for cash earlier on.

EDIT: I was wrong, he is joining YC. Thank you for pointing that out kobeya.

<comment><USER19> He's not at Fitbit. He's joining YC.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> mike-cardwell Somebody pointed this out to me the other day:

[https://github.com/Freeyourgadget/Gadgetbridge](https://github.com/Freeyourgadget/Gadgetbridge)

I've not looked into it yet, but it is described as:

"A free and cloudless replacement for your gadget vendors' closed source Android applications. Pebble and Mi Band supported."

The feature list seems substantial. So hopefully we'll be able to continue to use our pebbles for some time.

<comment><USER20> I don't know whether to applaud or criticize those who create open source software on unstable proprietary platforms, but if nothing else it shows what potential good greater openness would serve users.

<comment><USER21> Um...have you paid attention to the open source space for the past decade?

Audium/Pidgin/libpurple all were originally created to have open source interfaces to close systems (MSN, AIM, Yahoo Messenger, etc). Most of the OSS work is about reverse engineering and creating open yet compatible tools to use with or in place of closed systems.

If anything, projects like this can help keep Pebble watches alive after the demise of the company.

<comment><USER20> I don't think we're in disagreement. There is end-user value at least in short term. But when efforts are expended to keep users engaged with and thus financially supportive of closed systems instead of building alternatives isn't that folly?

None of the closed systems you mentioned exist in any meaningful form today and it's hard to imagine that a substantial number of Pidgin/Adium users began to sing the praises of XMPP rather than adopt another closed messaging system.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> I can't believe this, just got a Pebble 2 a week ago and now they are literally saying it may not work in the future.

If we rely on their cloud services for activity tracking and app downloads then it will be useless if FitBit doesn't maintain the platform.

I have to say I'm really disappointed and this is a huge blow to people that invest in startups offering hardware. If the company fails forget about the smart stuff you bought, it just won't work anymore.

We should look for ways to minimize the impact on backers. Sadly we'll see more of this in a future in which the products depend a lot on the company cloud services to operate.

<comment><USER23> >>I have to say I'm really disappointed and this is a huge blow to people that invest in startups offering hardware.

Buyers need to start demanding Open Source Software and Open Hardware...

With out that, you will always be screwed

<comment><USER7> Or at least treat any kind of cloud integration as a big negative. Without cloud dependence, the devices can always be hacked and made to work again until hardware dies.

<comment><USER24> One of the main reasons I went with the Pebble over other options was that I could use sleep tracking with it via a 3rd party app, without any need for their cloud. Sleep as Android has your back there. It's the only sleep tracking tool I like because it's able to keep your data locally on your phone or sync'd via a few mechanisms.

As for the step tracking... yeah, not sure.

<comment><USER21> Your device will keep working yet, but what if you switch phones/tablets? Now you need to setup a new device with the watch and...oh wait... Pebble re- downloads and re-installs all the apps. If their app/servers go away, now we'll be looking up hack people wrote on github to get our devices working again.

<comment><USER24> Yeah, fortunately TiBu can backup both the Pebble app and the Bluetooth pairing. But that's basically next, modified firmwares already exist I believe, so I don't think it's unreasonable to think that if we need to use those and sideload apps we'll be able to.

I'm fairly sure that I could crack the pebble apk myself to remove the authentication stuff at the beginning if it's needed. Backing up all the apps and stuff before it's gone might be the bigger worry here.

<comment><USER7> Backup is already underway, Reddit folks stepped up to the challenge.

I don't think PBW format has any magic in it that could enforce cloud dependency.

<comment><USER24> Yeah, from what I saw with the customized firmwares it looked fairly open to tinkering.

I'll have to check out what's going on with the pebble community over there. Might be interesting to get as much reverse engineered as possible before everything goes belly up.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> As someone who quite likes their time steel and who was patiently waiting for their time 2 this is incredibly frustrating. No other watches do what I want so I guess my foray into smart watches is over. It's a shame too because I appreciate the convenience it offers but I probably won't miss it much after a couple of weeks

<comment><USER26> I agree with this being frustrating. I had to explain to so many people that even though my watch doesn't have a SIM card, integrated 4G, GPS or a memory card slot for music it is still exactly what I wanted. Pebble watches do what smart watches should do, without trying to be a tiny phone on your wrist.

I guess I can only dream, but I hope they some day open up parts of it so that the phone app can continue working even with changes to Android/IOS down the line (if Fitbit doesn't want to keep the old Pebbles alive).

But with that said, a smart watch makes me feel hyper-connected. Putting it in quiet mode (and/or taking it off my wrist) every now and then is liberating and definitely makes me more productive.

<comment><USER27> Wow this is so true with me, I just want a watch that is a small extension of my phone. Not a watch trying to be a phone. Now I got to figure out wtf to get next if anything. A watch I have to charge every night isn't going to happen.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> Tldr: FitBit acquires( _) bankrupt pebble, lays of 60% of staff, cancels all pebble product lines. FitBit also cancels the warranties on already sold pebbles. FitBit may also have stiffed some holders of $27m of pebble 's debt.

(_) due to legal shenanigans we must not call this an acquisition or an acqui- hire. Also, FitBit didn't do those things, a shell company created by this deal did, which is totally different somehow.

When things like this happen, I always hope that consumers that got screwed over by the deal (and people that hear about it) avoid the acquiring company after the fact. If they treat pebble customers like this, how will they treat their own customers later?

<comment><USER29> Why does FitBit have the responsibility of providing support for another company's products? If they didn't buy Pebble, it would've shuttered anyways and they might not even refund the preorders.

<comment><USER30> When you buy a company, you don't buy just the assets. You also acquire the liabilities, which include debt, warranties and support contracts.

<comment><USER31> Which is why they did not buy the company. The company is going bankrupt and sold IP to recover money to pay some of the debts with. If you did that to a healthy company that might be fraudulent, but when the company is going under either way it is probably not.

<comment><USER28> Agreed, but I didn't see anything about court approval for this deal. If a neutral third party signed off on it being the best deal (for the creditors and customers) possible, then fine.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> > Pebble devices will continue to work as normal. No immediate changes to the > Pebble user experience will happen at this time. > Pebble functionality or > service quality may be reduced in the future.

That's very unfortunate. How much of Pebble relies on some online service? Is it still possible to install apps/updates without their infrastructure?

For companies that don't open source their stuff by default, it would be so nice if there was some kind of escrow service where upon dissolution of the company (sale, bankruptcy, etc) the required software to keep their hardware going would be released. I suspect the problem is while it's a win for consumers, not enough would care: the mass market is not going to only buy products that have this escrow service, and at the same time, it's handcuffs for the business, likely complicating a sale or liquidation of the company, and possibly turning investors off.

I hope the Pebble doesn't become a complete wristbrick, but it's always a shame to see perfectly good hardware crippled because there's no longer a piece of software running entirely outside the consumer's control.

<comment><USER33> It sounds like the developers at Pebble are hopeful that Fitbit will allow the community to step in where Fitbit can't (or won't): [https://developer.pebble.com/blog/2016/12/06/developer- commu...](https://developer.pebble.com/blog/2016/12/06/developer-community- update/)

"Further down the road, we'll be working to phase out cloud services, providing the ability for the community to take over, where possible."

<comment><USER21> I understanding them selling a lot of IP to Fitbit to pay back their debts and settle bankruptcy, but I really feel all the source for their app/store- services should have been made open source instead, prior to this announcement.

That way at least their customers could try to hack together stuff or make mirrors of their app repos to keep their devices functional.

<comment><USER20> I think you're overestimating how much they value their former customers.

<comment><USER11> This could also be an issue on Fitbit's side. Open Sourcing all the IP makes the deal less enticing to them (that's the first order analysis, but there's arguments in the other direction too)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> this blog post is absurd. They are shutting down, not manufacturing/selling stuffy anymore. It's over, the bubble popped, icarus flew too high and crashed.

And yet everybody having fun with their pebbles on the pictures. Also featured: the energetic team, the diverse ecosystem with lots of developers. This is absurd. The only thing missing is the "our incredible journey"-phrase.

The whole blog-post if marketing BS, even the headline is a lie. "Pebble's next step", there is no next step, it's over for pebble! Some might work for fitbit in the future, but pebble is dead. They don't explain why and how, they are just glorifying their past and don't admit any mistakes.

</comment><comment><USER35> Wow this is even worse than expected from the previous news articles... If they're winding down all support and warranties, PLEASE release as much of the watch operating system code as possible! I know some of the IP was sold, but if Fitbit won't be continuing support please help those of us who love our current watches keep them going!

<comment><USER36> That's Fitbit's call. Would be a great way to retain some product/brand loyalty among its supporters though!

<comment><USER37> The name would be something of a poisoned chalice if they can't fulfil existing orders.

They've bought the parts that are worth something. They haven't bought the liabilities. It seems like a pretty obvious move, in that cold light.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> I don't usually get upset about this stuff, business is business, but with my outstanding time 2 and core orders, I am definitely feeling bamboozled.

I always thought of pebbles fighting fitbits, the watch for 'us' vs the trackers for everyone. The open platform vs the locked in, the device that got just what you wanted done vs the not-really-a-watch.

It seemed like with pebble health and their relationship with Stanford things were on the up and up. Now ending warranties and such a trying to be nice but not really announcement. I expect nothing from fitbit. This sucks.

<comment><USER39> I'm not a lawperson, but can companies really just terminate a warranty like that?

<comment><USER40> When being bought, one would think the new company would take over the responsibilities.

But I also read that the employee-shares would be worthless, so it looks like FitBit bought Pebble in a weird sense.

<comment><USER41> They didn't buy the company, they bought some of the assets. In an asset purchase you don't take on the liability of the company your purchasing the assets from. Pebble as a company will go into bankruptcy and cease to exist.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> I'd like to know how this happened really. Pebbles were pretty decent and their successful campaigns definitely contributed to the rise of smart watches. But after having two hugely successful crowdfunding campaigns, how did they fail?

<comment><USER43> Why do you think they failed? Didn't FitBit just buy them?

<comment><USER44> FitBit bought just their software assets for under $40 million. In 2015, Citizen offered to buy the whole company for $740 million.

FitBit did not acquire their $24 million in debt or any physical asserts. They offered jobs to 40% of the staff.

<comment><USER45> > In 2015, Citizen offered to buy the whole company for $740 million

ouch, i can only imagine how the founders feel

<comment><USER44> It depends on the terms of the offer. He might have thought he was working in his employee's best interests by not taking the offer. Alternatively he could have negotiated support contracts for existing customers and provided stock options to employees then cashed out.

But in hindsight he's probably kicking himself.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> Ducks not quite in a straight line yet.

From text of announcement:

 _Pebble is no longer promoting, manufacturing, or selling any devices._

From header of getpebble.com:

 _Buy Now $99_

Also, the store promoting Pebble has no prominent announcement that they aren't promoting Pebble anymore (the one watch I checked did say out of stock, so they aren't selling it at the moment).

<comment><USER46> (So the 2 hour edit window has only just closed and they have fixed both things)

</comment></comment><comment><USER47> > Pebble's Migicovsky is planning to rejoin startup incubator Y Combinator as > a partner advising early-stage companies on hardware development, people > with knowledge of the matter said. Y Combinator's hardware head recently > left, Bloomberg News reported last month.

Pebble CEO seems to be joining YC.

[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-07/pebble- sa...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-07/pebble-said-to- discuss-selling-software-assets-to-fitbit)

</comment><comment><USER48> > Warranty support is no longer available for Pebble watches.

That's not very nice.

<comment><USER11> Also not super legal, probably. I'm sure if you have a problem, you could argue that Fitbit needs to handle it.

<comment><USER49> This is exactly why FitBit only bought the IP - it means they don't have any legal responsibilities the other company has, such as warranties.

<comment><USER23> They may not have any Legal Liablity, but it going to be a PR problem for them

I know I will not buy any FitBit products either, if this acceptable to FitBit, to do nothing for these customers knowing this was going to happen then FiTBit does not deserve anyone's money either.

It would have been better for the company to just Die if they were that bad off (which I have my doubts unless they were Seriously mismanaged)

These Acquihires where a large company partially buys out another company for there personnel and/or IP shuttering the original product and fucking over customers need to come with at minimum a HUGE PR back lash for the company buying the assets to make them at least do right by the original customers offering things like Reasonable levels of support, Transition planning, etc

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER50> Just read previous posts on [https://blog.getpebble.com/](https://blog.getpebble.com/) .

Man, you really can't tell whether a startup is doing well or not from outside. Everything's AWESOME all the time:

* Oct 31, 2016: Get Spooky with Halloween Pebble Faces!

* Oct 18, 2016: What's New in Pebble's 4.2 Firmware and Apps

* Oct 05, 2016: Pebble 2: Fit & Smart

* Sep 30, 2016: Pebble 2 Kickstarter Rewards Start Shipping

* Sep 14, 2016: Pebble Core = More Awesome with Amazon Alexa Expansion in the UK and Germany

... and then suddenly making big headline: "Dec 7, 2016: Pebble's next step".

<comment><USER51> Apparently if they don't blog for a while, things are bad.

<comment><USER52> "Going bankrupt" canary

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER53> Would have been better if they had open sourced the OS and the server code. And the designs for that matter. Obviously the IP is worth quite a bit, but since it doesn't look like FitBit will be producing similar hardware, it sucks to essentially lose these designs and it sucks that at any point FitBit can just shutter the services that make the current watches work.

Also, the Core was going to be awesome. Too bad it didn't happen.

<comment><USER54> >Also, the Core was going to be awesome. Too bad it didn't happen.

Yes, it was, and they even had Alexa integration planned. It made it a really interesting product, something that not even Apple or Google had. A little hackable 3G box with voice assistant. Really bummed.

</comment></comment><comment><USER55> Pebbler here.

There is an old Italian anarchist poem[0] that sings: "date fiori ai ribelli caduti", "give flowers to the fallen rebels".

Flowers for you, rebels.

[0] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X0Rsf_7f0U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X0Rsf_7f0U)

<comment><USER7> So say we all.

<comment><USER21> So say we all.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER56> I don't consider Pebble to be a startup anymore. I'm not sure why so many comments here use that term. They have found a repeatable, stable, and scalable business model that works and have been successful with it for years. Their watches are sold in Best Buy, Target, Walmart and other retail stores. Once you hit that level of main stream popularity I would say you're no longer a startup.

It was shocking to me to see Kickstarters for Pebble after their initial watch came out. After they had already been for sales in major retail stores. They should have solidified their business model by then and been profitable already. I feel like Kickstarter should be there to get your initial idea launched and if you can't take flight from there, don't do another.

Anyway, huge Pebble fan here, super sad to see them mismanage their assets that resulted in this.

</comment><comment><USER57> Why do these companies always phrase it as "our next step" or "what we're doing next"? As far as the outside world is concerned, Pebble is dead. There is no "next step". Maybe those same people will go on to work with Fitbit to make similar products, but they are abandoning their existing product.

I hate spin for the sake of public relations.

</comment><comment><USER58> My Pebble Time is brilliant... after an LG G, Moto 360, I settled on my Time being a perfect balance if functionality and usability. I was one of the first Time 2 backers and this really sucks to put it mildly. The Time 2 was going to fix my VERY few issues with the Time. In general they struck the perfect balance in a wearable for me and I was really excited about the future (Time 2, Google Assistant integration, etc). I rarely get truly sad about hardware announcements but this one is really disappointing.

</comment><comment><USER59> Whenever this kind of things happens. It will make all the more difficult for startups to acquire users because this reiterates "Startups are either going to be acquired and killed or die prematurely".

<comment><USER7> This hurts, because Pebble always seemed to me like the "good" kind of startup that will live long.

<comment><USER60> Unfortunately they didn't grow responsibly.

I worked for a start-up that did a similar thing. We hired tons of people and the business was unsustainable. It was a push to get bought or go out of business. Lucky for us we got bought.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER61> I note this from Pebble's developer blog, suggesting that a Fitbit-targeting successor to Pebble's app SDK may be a big part of the plan:

"Although this chapter in Pebble's developer story is closing, our team and ethos have found a new, welcoming home at Fitbit. We can't wait to have you alongside us for this next adventure. Third-party Pebble developers have a massive opportunity to drive how a Fitbit developer ecosystem will take shape. We hope you're as excited about seizing this opportunity as we are.

Over the coming months we will be working closely with our new friends at Fitbit, building the foundation for the next great wearable experiences. We want you—our fantastic developer community—to keep playing a crucial role in our success. More information will follow soon, so stay tuned!"

[https://developer.pebble.com/blog/2016/12/06/developer- commu...](https://developer.pebble.com/blog/2016/12/06/developer-community- update/)

<comment><USER7> This sound like typical post-acquihire PR bullshit. New 'exciting opportunities' and 'building the foundation for the next great wearable experience' does not in any way imply that any useful thing resembling a smartwatch will be created. It doesn't imply there will be a developer- friendly platform.

Nor does this message actually make sense. "We want you—our fantastic developer community—to keep playing a crucial role in our success." There is no "us" and "our success" \- they just got bought by another company and are shutting down the whole product line. They are literally a different entity now.

<comment><USER61> No argument over the phrasing. However, an evolution of the Fitbit Blaze device platform hooked up to something inspired by the CloudPebble online SDK doesn't seem implausible.

<comment><USER7> Given my experience with technology companies (especially startups) so far, I don't really expect that to happen. Though it would be very nice.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER62> I'll trade my refund for a postmortem.

<comment><USER2> I'd love to know what the ratio of incompetence to malice was.

<comment><USER63> The smartwatch market pretty much tanked in 2016. Apple just sold a record number of Apple watches but even they were down for the most of year. There just wasn't enough runway for Pebble to keep running; they even laid off 25% of their staff earlier in the year.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER64> Many people seem to be calling for the release of Pebble OS source code. Of course that is unlikely to happen. So how about instead we reimplement it under a FOSS license?

Ever since I heard the rumours about this acquisition, I started wondering just how difficult that would be to do. I'm sure there are plenty of you here with experience in these types of things, is this a good idea or a waste of time?

<comment><USER19> Good idea. Get on it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER65> So it looks like Fitbit acquihired the team from Pebble. Here's hoping Fitbit releases a product like the Pebbles, as it was much more safe and less attention-consuming to check a text message on my watch while driving than bringing out my phone, or asking a passenger to do this.

Are there any other things like it that we can migrate to, or will the world never see their like again?

<comment><USER66> > check a text message on my watch while drivin

Please don't do this. Traffic fatalities--particularly those involving vulnerable road users have spiked in the last couple years. There is nothing you can communicate that is worth the grave risk to others that you pose.

<comment><USER67> To be 100% clear, I totally agree with you that one shouldn't check their text messages while driving.

That being said, the statistics don't support your claim that traffic fatalities have spiked. Through 2014 (the last year the IIHS published statistics) fatalities had either leveled off or continued their historical decline.

[http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/general- statistics/fatalit...](http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/general- statistics/fatalityfacts/overview-of-fatality-facts)

<comment><USER68> Statistics are like bikinis: they show a lot but what they can hide is significant too.

Fatalities overall have fallen and continue to fall, largely due to increased use of seatbelts, other safety features in cars improving and being more commonly available. Also in many areas the overcrowding of roads is making fatalities drop: if you can't get up to any sort of speed then and collisions you experience will be less likely to be fatal!

But accidents due to being distracted by technology (and therefor the number of fatalities as a proportion of that) are, according to a number of studies, on the increase.

<comment><USER67> Perhaps it is the pedant in me, but the parent didn't qualify by saying the number of fatalities due to distracted driving. There was only the blanket statement of an increase in the number of fatalities.

While I don't doubt you are correct that the proportion of fatalities due to distracted driving is increasing, I'd still like to see a link or two to the studies you cited.

<comment><USER68> _> I'd still like to see a link or two to the studies you cited._

Unfortunately I don't have such handy, though if I remember when I next have time I'll try hunt out a reference.

If you want clues to try hunt them down yourself: they will be things I've read about in New Scientist (dead tree publication), probably in sidebars to recent articles on advances in automated vehicles.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER69> This is tragic; I was waiting on a Time 2, but looks like no longer.

What else is around in this niche now? Are there other relatively cheap, simple smart watches with good battery life that I should be looking at instead?

<comment><USER70> Yeah, I've been waiting on my pre-order Pebble 2 HR to arrive, but will certainly be cancelling, presuming there's anyone left in the building to accept the cancellation.

Would love to know what the alternatives are, as I've been tired of the low build-quality of my Fitbit and really want something much nicer and closer to a smart-watch.

</comment></comment><comment><USER71> I'd love to see a P2P style open cloud service created, where companies that use cloud services can use that instead, and then even if their company fails or has to shut down their own support of their services, their products can live on with the P2P cloud.

(Or, even if it's just an auto-graceful downgrade solution, like it hits their servers first, but if that's not available it tries the other).

For example, I once worked on a multiplayer iOS game about collaboratively writing stories based on keywords, and we were going to create a service to do it, but in the end decided to use the built-in asynchronous turn support in iOS GameKit.

Eventually the company folded, and if we had done our own service, the game would be completely unplayable. But because we used Apple's built-in services, it's still playable today, even though the company is gone, and even though the app is no longer on the app store.

That's kind of what I'm thinking, but instead of Apple providing that service, it's an Open Cloud service.

I was even thinking of writing an API to play mobile apps via email, where JSON strings of game turn data being passed back and forth via email, possibly via dedicated email addresses that the apps are given user/passwords to. Since email is a basic protocol that isn't likely to go away anytime soon, it seemed like a good tech to base that on.

</comment><comment><USER72> Its really sad to see Pebble going under. I really feel for the founders and employees. Unlike other commenters here I dont think there is obvious way this could have been avoided. Certain markets/companies do require a specific scale of investments/growth/market-penetration to be sustainable. Wearables/Smart- watches have proven to be a very difficult market and I pepole behind Pebble should be commended for risk taking.

</comment><comment><USER73> Can one please explain in simple english what actually happened? I did read that fitbit was interested in buying pebble. I assumed it will be like apple buying beats, and pebble will continue as usual.

Is fitbit shutting down pebble as pebble is a superior product over the crappy fitbits?

The core strength of Pebble was its simple OS and energy efficient device. I hope they opensource the OS.

<comment><USER74> Pebble is bankrupt. It owes more money to people/companies than it has/is owed. People whom Pebble owes money to ("creditors") will be ordered in a list. FitBit is buying some of the assets (software, IP, etc.). The proceeds from this sale will go to their creditors, proceeding down the list. The creditors at the end of the list won't get any of the money that they are owed.

The founders and investors walk away with nothing because the company's value is negative. Limited liability means that they are not personally on the hook for any of the debts.

Pebble is winding down operations. Warranty, support, &c. stops because Pebble as an entity will cease to exist. FitBit isn't buying Pebble the entity, it is buying some of the things of value which Pebble the entity owned.

<comment><USER73> That makes sense. Pebble should post this message on their site. This is clear. Thanks a lot.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER75> A month before they made this announcement, I ordered a Time Steel. I waited 3 weeks for shipping, and the tracking code they sent me remained in "Waiting for package from shipper" Then one day I got an email from their support saying the package was returned to sender.... sure, they just didn't send it. I requested the order to be cancelled, but was ignored until I said I want the refund or will do a chargeback.

I contacted my friend that worked there and he said he was not surprised, their support team was being disbanded and he and his team received an offer to work elsewhere.

Too bad, Pebble was my favorite smartwatch out there (original one is dead) and now I am stuck watchless because the only decent options are watches that are 1 or 2 years old.

</comment><comment><USER76> Right as I jumped on the bandwagon! Hurts.

Hopefully they have some influence over fitbit. I want to be able to make apps and install / test from my OpenBSD box!

</comment><comment><USER77> I've been generally dissatisfied with the smart watch options in general, even more so than cell phones and the Sophie's choices for cell phones is pretty bad!

What factors prevent open source hardware from being viable? Like if the basic parts of the pebble (e-paper screens, small efficient processors, flat batteries, etc) were open hardware so that any number of manufacturers could just churn out the parts; and if there was a FOSS option for an OS to run that hardware; what prevents a vibrant community from forming around those options? We could have artisans putting together various nice watch options, and lots of little apps to run on them. Why don't we have that?

<comment><USER78> >and the Sophie's choices for cell phones is pretty bad!

Mind elaborating?

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> I was a Kickstarter backer in 2012 and still have my original Pebble. There was a weird screen issue and I wanted to try other things, so I switched to the Gear 2 Neo which was absolute garbage. Then I moved on to the Moto 360, which also left me very disappointed when somehow the rear glass (the part that rests on your wrist) shattered.

So I went back to Pebble and got the Time Steel about a year ago and it's been flawless. Worked with my Note 4 and later (currently) with my iPhone 6S Plus. It's a shame that they're not going to be around anymore for the next time I get an itch to try something new. When this watch quits I'll probably just go back to my Citizen.

<comment><USER79> I had both of my original KS Pebbles brick with the same screen issue.

Needless to say, you had a lot more faith in the company than I did after that. I just considered my original KS pledge a bad investment and moved on without looking back.

</comment></comment><comment><USER80> their business strategy was terrible. -though, their developer support was awesome-

I still wear my time steel and will get my time 2 refund, but I am surely frustrated by how they screwed all it up. They did not open source any core bits, left with crappy update which drains batteries and openly admitted quality will get worse by time.

note-for-future : don't get into hype trains.

</comment><comment><USER81> [https://ourincrediblejourney.tumblr.com/post/154163945728/pe...](https://ourincrediblejourney.tumblr.com/post/154163945728/pebble)

</comment><comment><USER82> One thought:

FitBit's customer service with me has been nothing but exceptional from start to finish, and is the reason I have bought several for family members.

I would _hope_ that FitBit would recognize the loyalty they create based on this quality of service could be magnified by grandfathering Pebble's various services and by maintaining them, while helping Pebble users to transition at their convenience. This would allow Pebble users to continue to have functioning Pebble watches, with the likelihood of sticking with FitBit once the watch does finally break.

<comment><USER63> Fitbit doesn't own any of the services so they can't maintain them even if they wanted to.

<comment><USER83> > It is because of the close collaboration with the Fitbit team that the > Pebble user experience will continue. Fitbit will maintain services so that > Pebble devices continue to work as normal. Pebble functionality and service > may be reduced in the future.

FTA

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER84> I backed the Time 2 and the Core. I was way more excited about the Core. I have a 1st-gen Apple Watch and am perfectly happy with that. I was going to give the Time 2 to my father-in-law for Christmas. It's really disappointing. I'm really looking forward to someone explaining the what and whys of this. Based on Fitbit's stock price over the last year I can't imagine this acquisition will turn out good for either party, the developers going to Fitbit, or the wearable community in general.

</comment><comment><USER85> I had two Basis (original and the newer one) watches and when they had a recall/shut down operations, they did a buy back of them. So I got a check for the original purchase price of each and mailed them into Basis. Now that I have a couple of presumably soon-to-be-useless Pebble watches sitting around, it would be nice if they did the same thing. I nearly ordered a Time 2, but am liking my Garmin Vivoactive HR, so thank goodness I didn't order one.

</comment><comment><USER86> If FitBit wants current Pebble users to be their future customers, they should definitely consider not making current Pebble devices useless.

I understand this is not a trivial task, but it looks like FitBit mostly acquired Pebble's software engineers. So it would nice to see a new FitBit flavored OS update for Pebbles. The hardware is there, it just needs the software support. Pebble hardware with FitBit health/fitness services would a be great combo.

<comment><USER63> Fitbit didn't buy Pebble; they don't own any of the services and they certainly cannot update the firmware for devices that belong to a different company. They just bought the software and maybe hired a few engineers (although I imagine a lot of jumped ship; I know at least one is going to Intel instead).

Pebble will survive on the ingenuity of the community, not support of any company. Assuming anyone takes up the task.

</comment></comment><comment><USER87> I got royally screwed. Yesterday my 4 month old Pebble Time Round burned my wrist and killed itself, today they announce they no loner honour the warranty.

</comment><comment><USER20> Yet again, open-source to the rescue.

Current pebble users should look into Gadgetbridge[1].

Wrist computer enthusiasts trying to avoid future bricks should seek out and support projects like AsteroidOS[2].

[1][https://github.com/Freeyourgadget/Gadgetbridge/](https://github.com/Freeyourgadget/Gadgetbridge/)

[2][http://asteroidos.org](http://asteroidos.org)

</comment><comment><USER88> I guess their latest Pebble version didn't get the sales they expected.

Definitely surprising that they weren't able to sell the company - they had the brand and a loyal customer base. As an owner of a Pebble Time, I was impressed by the integrations, simplicity of design, and battery life.

I wonder went wrong - hopefully, there will be some type of post-mortem on these "various factors" over the next few weeks.

<comment><USER89> > Definitely surprising that they weren't able to sell the company

They sold their liabilities to Fitbit . Wasn't Pebble valuated billions of dollars a few years ago? Something went terribly wrong.

<comment><USER31> Highest reported buyout offer was $740 million from Citizen.

<comment><USER90> That offer seems unlikely since that would have been a substantial portion of Citizen's market cap.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER91> I'm genuinely saddened by this.

My Time Round is the only smart watch I've found that looks like a real watch (THIN) - they seemed to be the only ones that understood all the functionality in the world means nothing if you've got an ugly brick strapped to your wrist.

(And as for a screen that only switches on when you raise your wrist - it's like those people have no idea what a watch is for)

</comment><comment><USER92> Citizen buying pebble would have been so incredibly awesome. This is about the worst possible ending imaginable for pebble. Sad day.

</comment><comment><USER93> I'm still interested in getting a Time Round and/or Time Steel.

I love my Pebble Time, and the best features I use it for do required any cloud support: alarm, watchfaces, music control (to fast rewind/forward when listening to podcasts while on bike), I mostly switch-off notifications, but even those, I believe, won't require cloud support.

</comment><comment><USER94> I'm curious why they didn't take the Citizen offer for $700+ million. And then that Intel offer, which is now a better deal than what Fitbit offered. There must be more to the story. I feel that the CEO bears the blame for letting this company down, could it be hubris? Can't wait to read more when this story comes out.

<comment><USER79> > I'm curious why they didn't take the Citizen offer for $700+ million.

Probably the usual story when things fall apart after looking so bright: hubris, greed, bad advice, due diligence that wasn't favorable, etc.

Let's see which new hardware companies spawn out of this debacle.

</comment></comment><comment><USER95> Very disappointing for this backer that the Time 2 will never come out. It makes you wonder where the kickstarter money went.

<comment><USER96> > Kickstarter backers who have not received their rewards will receive a full > refund within 4-8 weeks as a chargeback to their credit cards. No further > action is needed.

<comment><USER95> No, I know that I'll be getting a refund, I just wonder why the kickstarter money wasn't enough to fulfill the kickstarter rewards.

<comment><USER31> Kickstarter probably mostly covers production of the rewards, not the product development.

<comment><USER97> It's business 101 that the retail price should cover all production costs, including R&D, otherwise you are in shortfall from day 0.

<comment><USER31> Retail price over the full sales run. Kickstarter was just the preorder phase of it and thus likely doesn't cover the full R&D, especially not if the estimates were off in some way.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER98> Well I for one am extremely sad about this. I had the Pebble Steel, stolen, then Pebble Time Steel and now also the Pebble 2, with a Pebble Time 2 on order.

I've loved Pebble from the first day I read about their original kickstarter. Gutted to learn I'll never get my Time 2.. was it a manufacturing defect that sunk the company?

At any rate I just found and placed an order for a white Pebble 2 for my wife. I was going to wait a bit, but didn't want to take any chances on getting her one now. Love the contrast of my lime / grey one.

I can't see anything replacing the Pebble now; nothing else offers week long battery life and always on display.

Thanks to all the engineers and programmers for the work you've put in. I feel sad for how it all panned out.

</comment><comment><USER99> Well, this sucks. I really don't want a fitbit - I like the pebble formfactor and legit use it as a notifier. If I wanted a fitness tracker, I'd get a $15 pedometer.

I backed and received a pebble2 to replace my pebble1. (as a Under some circumstances, I'd be fine just ignoring the acquisition and continuing to use my p2. The real problem is when the pebble integrations stop working. If that happens in a few months, I'm not going to be particularly happy.

I get that kickstarter is a gamble, as is buying products from marginal manufacturers. But the pebble really is a product that doesn't seem to exist anywhere else. Can anyone recommend a wearable that:

1) displays full notifications (email, text, etc)

2) handles navigation turn-by-turn directions

3) controls my music stream

4) lasts for a week+ on one charge

5) works on android (or better, is platform agnostic)

<comment><USER100> Check out the Vector Watch: [http://vectorwatch.com/](http://vectorwatch.com/)

1) displays full notifications (email, text, etc)

Yes, although I'm not sure what you mean by "full" notifications.

2) handles navigation turn-by-turn directions

I couldn't find anything about that, so it doesn't look like it supports that yet. But I assume that it is being developed.

3) controls my music stream

Yes.

4) lasts for a week+ on one charge

One charge lasts for 30 days (!)

5) works on android (or better, is platform agnostic)

Yes.

Disclaimer: I only found out about this watch a few hours ago, but a lot of other Pebble users are pointing to this one as an alternative. It looks great though, and I'm thinking about getting one.

<comment><USER101> > but a lot of other Pebble users are pointing to this one as an alternative.

Yeah, that's all nice, but what about the price comparison? I had a look and the cheapest Vector I found was 400 USD. In contrast, the Pebble 2 via Kickstarter cost 100 USD (OK, with VAT and S&H it was 115 USD for me).

> I couldn't find anything about that, so it doesn't look like it supports > that yet. But I assume that it is being developed.

You see, that's the problem. Pebble has been around for multiple years and had an ecosystem going. A lot of applications and watchfaces with functionality.

Pebble 2 versions also have a HRM. A Core would have a GPS. You wouldn't even need a phone w/that. My Pebble 2 sync with Google Fit as well. That's a big plus for sports like running and hiking (running with a phone sucks, esp as phones become larger and larger).

Vector looks classy, like a Pebble Round I guess, and it has a huge benefit in 30 days battery. Even if your battery is starting to wear out you'll still be able to use it for a long time, unlike the one day flies like Samsung and Apple. What Samsung and Apple have going for it, is research into usability. I'm not saying they're there yet but their products are iterations on usability R&D. The usability isn't quite there yet. That's why smartwatches aren't there yet. People know this. They read reviews. They speak to people who got the watch.

I saw someone with a Vector saying they had a scratch on their screen. I'm worried about the same on my Pebble 2. Previously, I'd just buy a new one (a new official screen for my phone would cost 85 EUR; which is a lot less than the average SGS or iPhone). I really wouldn't want that on a 400 USD product without knowing beforehand how much a fix would be.

One thing I still miss with my Pebble is a simple shop list on my watch. I end up grabbing my phone while in the grocery store for Google Keep just waiting for that day a kid runs into me and oops, it falls, ca-ching 85 EUR new screen.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER102> The wearables market is trying to find it's sustainable model at the moment and we are at the low point of the hype cycle. Part of the issue has to do with the business model with hardware devices like this. IE: A one time hardware purchase that needs to fund all further software updates etc. and the reliance on continually selling new hardware to stay in business.

Then there was the issue of needing to learn another dev stack to write applications with it vs the Apple or Google offerings that leverage Android and IOS development skills. Right now the largest market in the space is with simple devices such as fitness trackers. The disappointing thing is that Fitbit isn't as open with their bluetooth stack/Gatt profiles, but that's another discussion.

</comment><comment><USER89> Still taking orders on kickstarter right now...

[https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597507018/pebble-2-time...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597507018/pebble-2-time-2-and- core-an-entirely-new-3g-ultra/comments)

</comment><comment><USER103> > Active Pebble watches will work normally for now. Functionality or service > quality may be reduced down the road. We don't expect to release regular > software updates or new Pebble features.

I hope they open source Pebble OS, maybe even the assets that drive the Pebble store.

</comment><comment><USER104> "Warranty support is no longer available" \-- if items were purchased with a warranty, isn't that straight up breach of contract, for which Pebble (well, Fitbit, which bought Pebble and thus inherits its liabilities) will be liable?

<comment><USER63> Fitbit didn't buy Pebble. They bought the OS and they're trying to acquire some of their staff. Pebble is simply shutting down.

<comment><USER104> Ah, I misread or misremembered the earlier news. That makes more sense.

<comment><USER63> The news was all "Fitbit buying Pebble" for the last few weeks but nobody had any details nor confirmation. It was all rumors and speculation.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER71> I have a Pebble 2. I charged it last night. I have the Pebble Android app and I can't seem to get the two connected today. Is that because of this? Is there something on the backend that's required for notifications/sending already downloaded stuff from the app? I figured it did it all via the app on the client side, except the store.

If I can't even connect anymore, that's pretty screwed up, and I'm angry. If it just worked as it had before, just without the Pebble store or something, I can live with that.

Please just be some minor glitch. I'm very happy with the device as it was yesterday.

Anyone else having this problem?

<comment><USER105> Shouldn't be. Service is staying uninterrupted for the immediate future.

<comment><USER71> Okay, I got it connected, it just took a lot of resetting of crap. Apparently difficulty connecting with Android is a pretty common issue, as there's a lot of complaining about it on their forums.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER106> I'm starting to think that perhaps kickstart (or another kickstart like service should be created) should only back projects that are open source (source code of software, designs of hardware etc.).

Right now, when people are backing projects it essentially comes down to store like behavior, where you essentially purchasing a product and are not even guaranteed to receive it. If kickstarted products would instead be open, community would own them, and many of them could continue to thrive.

Pebble seems like is a product that would be much more successful if it was open sourced.

</comment><comment><USER107> any idea how long before Fitbit can be expected to come out with a product that integrates some of Pebble's goodies? I have been waiting on a Time Steel 2 since June, but I don't want to wait another 12 months for the teams to integrate and a product to be released (and hope the first effort won't be a frankenwatch).

I guess I'll have to look into the Apple Watch again—I didn't love it when I first tried it, but that was with the old OS and slow processor. Hope Fitbit can get something out the door before my Time Steel kicks the bucket!

</comment><comment><USER108> Is there an alternative out there right now with comparable battery life and features? It looks like I won't be receiving my next pebble so I am looking for something similar.

</comment><comment><USER109> I'm devastated. I remember being so excited when the first kickstarter happened, but I was broke and couldn't buy one. Then finally after years of waiting and following them with interest, my wife bought me a Pebble Time for our anniversary. That was 2 months ago and now the future of this amazing device on my arm is completely up in the air. And what is the alternative? Some over-priced, under-featured piece of garbage fitbit? No thanks.

</comment><comment><USER110> I also blame Apple. When you are a 1T$ company, I think it's a social responsibility to not be ruthless in your pricing with small innovating competitors running on the midnight oil. It's a page out of MS playbook. I feel like a traitor for owning an apple watch. But at this rate, with their ipadification (dropped all ports off the mbp) and product lineup explosion, Apple is going where it was in the 90s anyway...

<comment><USER111> Pricing wise Pebble and iWatch were in a different league. The price of the Pebble was determined by Pebble judging the demand and their ability to manufacture and supply at a certain cost.

Almost all the profits in the cell phone, laptop and digital watch business flow to Apple. In no category they are playing in the lower priced band. It seems to me like manufacturing in the lower/medium price band is a commodity. Ability to generate sustainable profit - absent of strong branding - <AUTHOR> limited.

</comment></comment><comment><USER112> I know how heartbreaking that must be for the founders, but at least they're going out the classy way. I'm sure we'll hear from them again.

</comment><comment><USER113> Love the Pebble, so sad to see it go. I had one of the originals, and now have a Time Steel I love. Feel a little bit like they shot themselves in the foot because I'd have been willing to pay $200 for the watch, but there were tons of refurb ones for under $100 available, so that's the one my Fiance got me. I tried one of the Android watches, but hated it. The Pebble was soooo much better.

</comment><comment><USER114> Love my Pebble. Has almost everything I wanted in a watch. Found it a pity that on the marketing front, Pebble never seemed to get top of mind (or anything near there). My current's watch's display is starting to shred. Debating buying a second watch while they are still available. Downloaded the SDK and will grab the tutorials. Hopefully Fitbit will keep this information around.

</comment><comment><USER115> I have a first gen Apple Watch after having the Pebble Steel and I was very much considering going back to Pebble, this is very sad news.

</comment><comment><USER116> What a great story from Kickstarter's most valuable player to a debt monster that make every of its loyal customer angry

</comment><comment><USER110> This is so sad. I had the new time2 with the core on kickstarter. This would have been a truly innovative product, why oh why? I see on crunchbase they had only raised 15M-- so theres G$ available for a nth round of evernote or dropbox and not a few M$ to help these guys see it to market? This is a terrible day for innovation.

</comment><comment><USER117> The iFixit was very interesting. It has a freakin FPGA?? A comment said it was there to drive the e-ink display, while the MCU slept. Any confirmation on that? Also, what the heck was the smart strap supposed to be?

This is sad because I was just about to get a Pebble (had tried beefier watches but felt battery life was too limited).

<comment><USER118> >> This is sad because I was just about to get a Pebble (had tried beefier watches but felt battery life was too limited).

Yeah this is sad. I had a Pebble 2 on my short list as a fitness tracker but went with something else. I liked that their devices didn't try to be too much. They were good at a few things and had a battery life I could live with.

<comment><USER119> What did you go with? I have Pebble 2 HR on my Christmas list. I had taken it off when these rumors started, but I couldn't find anything I liked more. I'm interested in Google Fit integration as I'm using that to track my runs.

<comment><USER118> I went with a Xiaomi Mi Band 2. My main desire was for sleep tracking and Google Fit integration. It was dirt cheap and it's comfortable to wear while sleeping. The Xiaomi app integrates with Google Fit. I also have the Xiaomi smart scale, so I have been able to push all my info into Google Fit fairly seamlessly.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER120> So, basically, there will be no way to load watchfaces or apps when their servers go down, and a lot of other things will also stop working. I've been a big advocate of Pebble for a long time. This is a great middle finger to all of us that have been with them from the beginning.

</comment><comment><USER121> This is the most orderly shutdown of a hardware+services company I've seen. Congrats to Team Pebble for that.

It has to suck to end this way after 8 years. :(

I hope someone builds a product like Pebble Core; I'm not sure how generally viable that is, but I'd love to have it myself.

<comment><USER7> > _This is the most orderly shutdown of a hardware+services company I 've > seen. Congrats to Team Pebble for that._

Oh, then you wasn't aware of the shitstorm that was happening on Reddit, Pebble forums and Kickstarter. The company basically went silent a month or so ago. Then, after the news of the acquisition broke early, they slowly progressed from total silence to completely unprofessional behaviour (i.e. posting stupid shit and not answering anything).

I was - still am - a great fan of Pebble, so this whole affair really hurts me. :(.

<comment><USER121> Maybe you're right -- I didn't see that. I was mostly concerned w/ refunds on pending KS (which they don't have to do) and with them not shutting down the servers.

It's not ideal, but I suspect they have limited resources. I wish there were a way for companies to pay into an escrow/bond/whatever to keep their HW products alive in case of failure. I was really sad when Zeo (sleep tracking EEG thing) died; couldn't get the website or replacement consumables :(

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER122> That's a real shame. The search for a small Spotify-enabled device continues.

<comment><USER123> Mine too :/

</comment></comment><comment><USER124> I can't help but wonder if the whole timeline thing overcomplicated the pebble platform. I for one lost a bit of interest in the whole thing once i learned they where heading in that direction with future products.

</comment><comment><USER125> Is there any way to get a Pebble 2 instead of a refund on my Time 2 pledge?

<comment><USER126> Take the refund and pick up a P2 from Best Buy or Target (or regional equivalent) for a fraction of the cost.

They no longer appear to be sending anything at all out.

<comment><USER125> Thanks, I didn't realize they were in stores yet. I'd better hurry before they run out of inventory.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER127> I'm sad I'm not getting my Time 2, but that is really awesome of them to refund my money from their Spring Kickstarter. They didn't have to do that, which is much appreciated.

</comment><comment><USER128> For those curious, you can still buy the Pebble 2 online via BestBuy, Walmart, Amazon, etc.

Did the Pebble Time 2 ever get completed? Did anyone receive one? I was really looking forward to it...

<comment><USER129> It did not. There's a number of prototype units in existence, but that's it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER130> I wanted that Pebble core. This is sad.

I sincerely hope all the Pebble employees are able to transition to other jobs with minimal impact to their lives. Good luck in your future endeavors!

</comment><comment><USER131> I'm not sure how to react to this news. I have 3 pebble watches and 2 of them are broken. If fitbit can fix the pebble quality problem then I may buy more.

</comment><comment><USER132> I was looking at Pebble before but this shuts that down.

Coincidentally I noticed that the market for luxury watches has heated up ever since Apple Watch was released.

</comment><comment><USER133> But I thought Fitbit was exiting the wearable market?

<comment><USER134> ...What else do they make?

<comment><USER90> There's a scale. ;) But yeah, still making those wristbands!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER135> in the words of Jason Scott...

"I can summarize this for you... uh...

..."FUCK"... and uh.. "YOU"."

another victim of "our incredible journey."

</comment><comment><USER136> tl;dr: hardware won't be produced anymore (currently working hw will still work).

Software will work on fitbit. Details here: [https://developer.pebble.com/blog/2016/12/06/developer- commu...](https://developer.pebble.com/blog/2016/12/06/developer-community- update/)

</comment><comment><USER39> I actually had a Peddle around my wrist a few months ago, decided I didn't like it and sent it back. Really glad I did.

</comment><comment><USER137> wow.

this sounds like "yeah, f*ck ya'all up, we are leaving this boat".

i guess that's what you get from "small startups".

</comment><comment><USER138> I've had my Pebble Time (1) for about 18 months now, sad to hear this.

No other smartwatch can boast 4-5 day battery life.

<comment><USER100> 30 days: [http://vectorwatch.com/](http://vectorwatch.com/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER139> So do the existing hardware watches become collectors items or second draw fillers ?

</comment><comment><USER140> Did Pebble employees have stock options? Is there any money left for them?

<comment><USER141> > The deal will mean the Pebble stock held by employees is worthless, two of > the people said. The money will instead go to debt holders, vendors, some of > its main equity investors, and Kickstarter refunds for the Time 2 and Pebble > Core orders, the people said.

[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-07/pebble- sa...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-07/pebble-said-to- discuss-selling-software-assets-to-fitbit)

</comment></comment><comment><USER142> Open source what should have originally been open sourced?

</comment><comment><USER143> what's the core reason, wearable is not as popular as it is thought to be? too early for the generic public? Apple iwatch competition? something else?

</comment><comment><USER97> Sad to see the failure of a truly alternative product.

</comment><comment><USER144> "66,673 backers pledged $12,779,843 to help bring this project to life."

Welp.

</comment><comment><USER145> This is sad to hear. It was a really cool product.

</comment><comment><USER146> damn.. i felt bad about this

</comment><comment><USER147> Wow that didn't take long.

</comment><comment><USER148> What's the point of warranties and cloud services if you can just be like "oops, goodbye"? Can they be sued for this?

<comment><USER149> > Can they be sued for this?

Pebble Tech is insolvent[1]. Even if they were successfully sued, there's no money to collect. One would have to go after the management personally, or try to prove that Fitbit's acquisition of key assets should really be considered acquisition of the whole company, including obligations.

1\. [http://www.proofofclaims.com/PebbleTech/documents/](http://www.proofofclaims.com/PebbleTech/documents/)</comment></comment>


Show HN: A back 2 back online beat maker - <AUTHOR> https://strikefreemusic.com/gZ2PhFBfKyGOX2FP9uAz <comment><AUTHOR> Hi, I made this fun b2b beat maker today. Let me know if you run into any bugs. Enjoy!</comment>


The Pirate Bay Trial Day 10: Calls for Jail Time - <AUTHOR> http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirate-bay-trial-day-10-calls-for-jail-time-090302/ <comment><USER2> Continually blogging about the courtcase, partying, inviting livebloggers and sending live feeds from the court is an excellent PR strategy for Thepiratebay.

If they're found guilty there'll be an uproar, and the Swedish authorities and judges know they're being watched closely by an international community.

<comment><USER3> > _the Swedish authorities and judges know they're being watched closely by an > international community_

Do the Swedish authorities particularly care if a group of people who they consider to be criminals and pirates don't like them? I doubt it.

<comment><USER2> They are politicians, and politicians are at the mercy of their voters which happen to consist of a large chunk of filesharers.

When the Pirate Bay's servers were raided a few years ago it turned into a political scandal, and (if I remember correctly) a minister was fired.

Also, The Pirate Party was very close to getting elected into parlaiment at the last election in Sweden.

If I was a Swedish politician or authority I would definitely care.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Here's my bet: they are found guilty for _something_ , don't get jail time or much of a fine, but are required to shut down or modify their operations. If I were a judge, I would see the prosecution's claims as exaggerated, but would probably look askance at the fact that these guys have done nothing at all to remove trackers pointing to copyrighted material, and have actually made fun of those requests.

<comment><USER5> Indeed. I guess if they will be force between changing something or move, they will move to another country. So nothing will change anwyay.

<comment><USER6> As far as I knew since the '03 (I think 03) raid their servers are located in a different country anyway.

<comment><USER7> 2008, Egypt

(<http://thepiratebay.org/blog/102> , it only took a few seconds to find, and bests AFAIK-ing)

<comment><USER6> re read the blog post... spot the irony? ;)

Fairly certain that the servers are _not_ in the Sainai :)

<comment><USER8> I don't get it, could you explain please?

<comment><USER6> Well fairly certain that Tiamo _does not_ live in Egypt.

Also they claim to have Fibre connections to XYZ countries? hmmm. (bearing in mind that that kind of thing leaves a paper trail and there doesnt appear to _be_ one) Smacks a little too much of irony to me :)

<comment><USER9> Heh, remember those cable breaks in the middle of the Mediterranean? Other sites might suggest it was a CIA or Echelon style operation, but here, I think we can all agree that it was the Pirate Bay ensuring their connectivity by splicing their servers onto it.

<comment><USER6> Heh I'd forgotten about that.

I almost wish they had managed to buy seaworld too because it would have been amusing to see the Music moguls trying to get at them there :D

<comment><USER10> It's Sealand, not seaworld.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Could anyone estimate the costs of running The Pirate Bay? I've heard that the site could be grossing millions a year from advertising, but I'm also assuming that the costs are extremely high. I was interested in finding out financial information for the site, but it looks like it won't be released.

<comment><USER12> I imagine it's less than you're suggesting, because they're not serving the files themselves, so their bandwidth would be relatively low compared to a photo or video sharing site.

<comment><USER13> Doesn't tracking millions of torrents require a massive amount of bandwidth? I'm no expert on bittorrent protocol, but I'm sure millions of clients pinging "I'm a seeder" or "I'm a leecher" adds up.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I think the Pirate Bay is a shady operation. They probably earn millions on giving other peoples work for free. I don't understand the model of "free copying" - if everyone is leeching and nobody is paying how will we get movies like Star Wars, Lord of the Rings or a game like Halo (they cost millions of $ to produce)?

I hope an alternative comes where you actually pay for the stuff you leech (especially for movies). And the argument with "trying stuff out", does not really hold - you don't go and try an ice cream for free, you buy it and if it's bad you don't buy ice creams from that store any longer.

<comment><USER15> I'm not sure where you live, but here in the US, I can go to most ice cream shops (Marble Slab Creamery, for example) and try various ice creams for free before I buy. ;)

<comment><USER14> You get a taste of ice-cream - it's the equivalent of hearing a snippet of a song or seeing a trailer for a movie. You don't get a full banana split.

<comment><USER16> I'd argue that is a flawed analogy.

When you taste the ice cream, you get the full essence of it. All the subsequent bites will taste like that one. You know what you are getting.

When you hear a 30 second song clip or see a movie trailer, you get a selectively packaged subset of the full product. I have heard many clips and seen many trailers that are simply awesome, and then the actual song or movie ends up being terrible.

So the analogy would be better if you got to hear the song once for free, and then had to buy to own, which is kind of between the two extremes now (leech it or buy it unheard). Radio (traditional or internet-based) does a decent job of this now, but only for singles. There is still no way to try a whole album before buying unless you catch it on the headphones in Best Buy.

The trouble with movies is that generally you don't watch them many times. I can't really speak for everyone there, but I know I would be much more willing to pay for movies if I could get a good 720p copy of it for say $10-15. The reason I don't buy movies now is that I don't want a pile of DVDs in my tiny apartment. I could buy them, rip them, then resell them, but as I understand it, this is just as illegal as downloading them to begin with. So to summarize, give us some format options besides just a DVD that costs $23.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> They are almost sure to get nailed for it now I think - and a good thing too.

Neither side winning is a good outcome for the rest of us but I prefer to see the idiots dealt some of their own punishment for once ;D

<comment><USER15> Actually, I'd argue that TPB winning would be a good outcome for the rest of us, but even if they don't, it's only a matter of time. Patterns are not things, and the only way to paper over the difference is to make it harder to work with patterns... but that's not the way technology is going.

<comment><USER6> I dont buy that. Please explain why that would be good?

If the music companies win then perhaps the idiot pirates start to acutally get scared. Then us sensible lot can sit down with the companies and get them to do things right. Stuff is moving in the right direction (Apple going non- DRM for instance) these guys are dinosaurs and holding things back. Send em down.

I fail to see how anyone can condone TPB ever.... they damage the file sharing community like nothing else before.

(ps am amused at the downmodding of my comment.... way to support piracy.. ;))

<comment><USER17> you're not being downmodded because everybody here supports piracy. it's because you used the word "idiot," among other things.

you can make almost any point on hacker news and get away with it, if you're respectful to all involved.

<comment><USER6> Why? They treat everyone else with the same degree of snootiness and vitriol... calling them idiots is barely disrespectful :)

<comment><USER17> you've perhaps heard that two wrongs don't make a right?

pg started this site, and he has inculcated it with his values. imagine pg writing an essay about the pirate bay. do you suppose he would call them "idiots?"

like it or not, the culture around these parts tends towards respect. you violate local customs at your own peril.

<comment><USER6> I dont buy that. It is expressing an opinion. I do respect the excellent way they are using the media and the internet to show off their cause. I dont respect what they do. I disagree calling them idiots is disrespectful: because, well, they are.... (in my opinion):) There is a huge difference between respect and dislike.

Perhaps I should be clear and say they _act_ like idiots. Then its an opinion...

I would edit the original but I cant any more.. oh well.

Slowly losing a _lot_ of respect for some of the posters here... :(

<comment><USER2> Idiot is a pretty strong word, and using it requires some arguments and substance besides "in my opinion they are idiots".

Intelligent discourse is based on good arguments and respect for the other party.

<comment><USER6> I wish I had never used the word: I really dont see it as particularly strong... perhaps it is cultural differences getting in the way. But a single word is getting in the way of a good debate elsewhere in the thread - which is a bit sad.

(for the record I think I did back up my statement: they are idiots because they are helping and encouraging people the steal with no thought as to the consequences and believe they are above the law to the point of being. And, importantly, refuse to be reasoned with - and yes I have tried.)

I agree with the good arguments - but respect should not be automatic. I would look for it to be earned in an argument (probably I did not do much to earn any yesterday). My other point, of course, is that TPB (at whom my remark was directed) are not here and so are not one of the debating parties... :)

EDIT: I am not particularly worried by the downmods. People can express their opinions. However downmodding based on wording feels a bit short sighted... downmodding based on percieved bias (which a friend of mine pointed out) I _would_ agree with (because it did introduce a bias.. which was a mistake).

(Also it's a bit sad to see this bumped up to the first page... this surely is stuff for the "back room")</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


1Password silently removed major features on iOS - <AUTHOR> https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/105305/setup-with-standalone-vault-can-sync-from-desktop-apps <comment><USER2> Previous discussion a few days ago: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20417832](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20417832)

<comment><AUTHOR> Sorry I didn't see it. A quick search for "1Password" didn't reveal it as the previous post misspelled it.

<comment><USER3> Ouch. Fixed now. Thanks!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Their responses are unbelievable. OP had to ask the same question repeatedly only to get the same smug non-answers that ignored all of the most important points. The 1P team didn't own up to or even acknowledge any mistakes.

I manage 3 paid accounts. Might not be much to them, but this event—the way they handled it more than the incident itself—was enough at least to get me to discontinue my subscriptions. Could not be more disappointed in how they handled this.

Edit: can anyone recommend a good open source manager with browser extensions?

<comment><USER5> I use Keepass[1] with the Kee[2] extension on Firefox and on Android I use Keepass2Android[3]. All 3 are free and opensource.

For synchronizing the kdbx file I use Dropbox.

[1]: [https://keepass.info/](https://keepass.info/) [2]: [https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/keefox/](https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/keefox/) [3]: [https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=keepass2androi...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=keepass2android.keepass2android&hl=en)

<comment><USER6> For iOS MiniKeePass works well. Simple, no nonsense and registers itself as an application that can handle kdbx files.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> It looks like he's complaining about a feature not available for free. If it is that valuable, pay for it.

<comment><USER8> User has already paid. The feature they had been using was removed.

<comment><USER7> It was implied by the response that he was using a free option.

 _I 'm sorry for the trouble. 1Password no longer offers a free-to-use option on iOS. It can either be used with a 1Password membership account or it can be synced to a standalone vault created by 1Password for Mac or 1Password for Windows. It wouldn't be possible to create a new standalone vault from 1Password for iOS. Standalone vaults still work, but must be created by a licensed product (1Password for Mac or 1Password for Windows)._

<comment><AUTHOR> Actually no. It's the same for paid users on ios. If it's a the one-off payment IAP user, then there is no way to create new vault anymore. If it's subscription user, the user has to sign in to the 1P account to create a _local_ vault, which the OP might have good reason not to sign in on some sensitive devices.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


GhostCipher: Share passwords and files with client-side crypto and one-time links - <AUTHOR> https://free.ghostcipher.com/ <comment><AUTHOR> Renamed and moved. It now lives at [https://free.safelytransfer.com](https://free.safelytransfer.com)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Looking to get feedback, thoughts and constructive criticism.

Technical details can be read about here [https://cyber.chiedo.com/ghost- cipher/](https://cyber.chiedo.com/ghost-cipher/) Eventually I plan to create a mobile app version and desktop app version to address some of the concerns of things being in a web browser.

Thanks in advanced for your time :)</comment>