Chrome Gets Plugins: How to Write a Chrome Extension in Three Easy Steps - <AUTHOR> http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/write-chrome-extension/

<comment><USER2> It'd be nice if we could use the correct terms for these things. I know that I'm probably picking nits, but there's a difference between extensions and plugins.

My simplified definition: plugins run native code, extensions run Javascript. Flash if a plugin, Firebug in an extension.

<comment><USER3> The terms plugin, extension, add-on, widget, drop-in, applet, cram-thru, etc. have all historically been used interchangeably to mean little more than "lack of modular design".

Don't expect actual extensibility from Chromium any time soon. If they can't be bothered to even _plan_ for platform independence (<http://dev.chromium.org/developers/browser-bootstrapping>) then they don't have the design wherewithall to retrofit a C++ app with a comprehensive extension mechanism.

My hope is that a Google-independent fork will start that extracts the nifty subsystems in Chromium, like process level isolation, and uses them to build a more thoughtfully architected browser/platform.

<comment><USER4> 1) If they had planned for platform independence, they wouldn't have been able to release _anything_ for a long time.

2) Since Chrome relies heavily on process isolation, I would think that a _lot_ of the architecture of the browser is tied to the platform. Even the html rendering pipeline (based on WebKit) runs out-of-band and the rendered bitmap is send to the browser window via IPC. (I don't work on the team but from my understanding of someone's comments, this is how it roughly works)

3) Regarding extensibility, I agree that I doubt Google is going to provide much extensibility of the actual browser _chrome_. Google's interests are in the web sites themselves and as such, the greasemonkey-like extensions are what they're probably going to promote. They want to hide the browser container as much as possible and move the focus to the web page inside it.

<comment><USER3> 1 & 2) I should hope that a company worth hundreds of millions of dollars and employing a vast army of the greatest programming minds in the world could take the time to wrap their platform specific code in an abstraction layer, a relatively minor task that is now practiced almost universally, or at least use some of the many mature cross-platform libraries available.

3) If Chrome is to be a platform, it's going to need a shell with a rich interface to manage multiple applications and allow them to interact with each other. It's also going to need an ecosystem and the people it needs in that ecosystem use OSX and Linux. Making it inflexible or "hiding" it are the exact wrong things to do.

Firefox Greasemonkey scripts are used by power users to make minor tweaks to specific sites. I don't see how that functionality will further Google's lofty plans for Chrome. This was a quick hack that nominatively fulfilled a very popular feature request.

<comment><USER4> > If Chrome is to be a platform, it's going to need a shell with a rich > interface to manage multiple applications and allow them to interact with > each other. It's also going to need an ecosystem and the people it needs in > that ecosystem use OSX and Linux. Making it inflexible or "hiding" it are > the exact wrong things to do.

I'm certainly not the one in charge of directing Google's vision but it would seem to logical to me that they are _not_ interested in creating a new 'platform' in the sense that xul is a platform. As far as I can see, the purpose of Chrome is to promote web apps as a reasonable alternative to desktop apps.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Still doesn't offer any _real_ extension functionality; it's more a glorified, built-in version of Greasemonkey. This precludes such popular and useful Firefox extensions such as Firebug, Foxmarks, AdBlock, or just about any other extension besides Greasemonkey itself...

<comment><USER6> I'm not sure that's entirely true.

I can imagine AdBlock, as well as other plugins that deal mainly with the DOM, as entirely possible. I mean, how much does AdBlock really do? Grabs a list of blacklisted URLs (with wildcards), matches applicable elements in the DOM, and removes them.

AdBlock may prevent these requests from being issued at all, but that isn't to say you can't implement something similar in a Greasemonkey-like environment.

<comment><USER5> The whole point of AdBlock is that it _does_ block the actualy requests in the first place. Why should I have to download 800k of ads for a 200k webpage, and open myself to adware tracking cookies? Removing them from DOM _after_ they've been downloaded is not a proper solution to me at all...

<comment><USER6> I disagree. I have an internet plan with 100 gigs of allotted transfer. I don't care if a few kb here and there come down. I understand that your position may be different, but in my opinion most use Adblock the way I do -- to not see advertisements.

<comment><USER5> Transfer totals has no bearing on bandwidth _speed_. When I'm on wireless connections, or at work where I am forced to work from a connection shared with 400 other employees, the bandwidth required by ads actually takes up a significant amount of time. I don't even have _any_ caps on my usable bandwidth, in any of the above situations or at home, but the speed can still be greatly affected by the number of ads being loaded that I don't even see. Even my cable internet provider still gives me only a measly 384kilobit upload speed, and that now has to be shared between even more outgoing connections?

To top it all off, from an ad-provider's perspective, why should I be paying for ad impressions that the end user doesn't even get to see? At least with Adblock, my server bandwidth isn't used, and my impression statistics aren't being impacted by users who aren't actually getting the chance to view the content...

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Greasemonkey-esque functionality is the main thing I've been missing in Chrome, so this looks appealing.

<comment><USER8> well the cool thing about greasemonkey was that you could do a little more than just inject javascript code... for example, you could make cross domain xhr calls as well, and it did so by jumping out of the security sandbox to do this. I'm not so sure if it will be possible in chrome...

<comment><USER7> Fair enough; I've never had call to do that in my own GM scripts, but I can easily see the use.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I can't wait to see how many people pick the unique number 00123456789ABCDEF0123456789ABCDEF0123456

<comment><USER10> It's never a good idea to put valid UUIDs in tutorials, there's just too many copy-pasters out there.

<comment><USER11> Having to create an ID manually is temporary.

When complete, the ID is going to be a hash of the extension's public key, and extension content will be signed with the key. So there won't be conflicts (unless you share your private key).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Does anyone know how to add a right click menu item so I can invoke a external download tool for URLs?

</comment><comment><USER13> Anyone switched to the developer-channel version of Chrome yet?

</comment><comment><USER14> can somebody write a plugin to port Chrome to other OSes?

Note: i'm being sarcastic</comment>


Former Microsoft evangelist Don Dodge on Google vs. Microsoft - <AUTHOR> http://venturebeat.com/2009/12/17/former-microsoft-evangelist-don-dodge-on-google-vs-microsoft-qa/

<comment><USER2> I don't like how an evangelist can completely jump ship from all the things he loved and pushed and used before he changed jobs in less than a month.

In whole it makes one seem even less trustworthy than normal sales people.

<comment><USER3> Yup, he really seems quite clueless about similar things out there - "Wow! Gmail has threaded conversations!?!", "Wow - attachments in GMail can be viewed inside browser"...

Can someone tell how can I get a job like this?

<comment><USER4> By being likable. If you recall there were a lot of stories written on his departure from Microsoft and all of those stories called Microsoft stupid for letting him go. But if you look at his job description his job at Microsoft was to sell MS technology to startups and I don't know many startups that use MS tech.

<comment><USER3> No wonder why Microsoft sacked him :P

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> My job at MSFT was to put Microsoft in the best possible light, not an easy task, and help developers get access to software and support. BizSpark helped with that.

At Google the job is much easier because the product strategy and technology is better. Chrome OS (open source), Google Apps and App Engine (cloud), and Android (mobile platform) are the waves of the future. I firmly believe Google has the right vision and the right products.

Microsoft is a good company, with good products, and good people. MSFT didn't get to be a $60B company on FUD.

Developers and customers make decisions based on what solves their problems easiest, fastest, cheapest. There is not a one-size-fits-all solution to every problem. Google has a pretty solid vision for the future, and new technology/products that will satisfy the needs of a large fraction of the market.

Your mileage may vary.

Don

<comment><USER6> It seems like it would be hard to go from selling best-in-class software for office work, development, and communication, to selling the steaming pile that is Google Apps. How do you convince people to buy inferior products? The best line I can think of (without lying) is to claim that they don't need all the features, consistency, and speed Office provides compared to Google Apps.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> One of things which annoy me is that he was an evangelist and didn't even try the latest products. Office 2010 preview was out which has threaded discussions he raves about in gmail. He hasn't looked at office online version but says he suspect that it won't be good. I guess he should have as an evangelist asked some questions and pushed few features in the product he would have been selling if he wasn't let go.

<comment><USER8> > Office 2010 preview was out which has threaded discussions he raves about in > gmail.

Serious question: When was that available? Gmail had it at least since 2004 (I know since that's when I got my account).

And I was reading threaded emails in emacs in the early 90's, and I bet I was late to that party then.

<comment><USER7> Well, I have been using Outlook 2010 since June and it has threaded discussion features since then. I am sure as he was an Microsoft employee he had access to the early release and dog-food versions which he should have tried. So, threaded discussion shouldn't be a new feature for him. And if he was using Outlook I don't know why offline Gmail wows him so much.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> _IBM was king. I think in the late '80s and early '90s, we saw that shift and Microsoft became king of the hill. And in 2009, 2010, going forward, Microsoft is sort of like IBM. It's a longtime company with a great tradition and still very profitable, but it's not the leader._

Another sign that a company is at the top, but due to come down:

Awesome R&D, which hasn't a snowball's chance in hell of getting to be a real product. (IBM, Xerox, the old AT&T)

Apple and Google still seem to be actively turning new tech into product. Microsoft: mainly the XBox division seems to still be doing this.

<comment><USER10> _Microsoft: mainly the XBox division seems to still be doing this._

Also, the developer division: Generics, LINQ, F#. They all came from Microsoft Research.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> With the vendor-based technologists and vendor-based evangelists, at least you are certain who is paying them to espouse their opinions; you know how they're going to slant.

Various Industry Analyst firms and Industry Pundits can undergo these same sorts of seismic shifts. And whether the opinion is with technical merit, a paid opinion, a troll for web hits, or a curmudgeon that has made a career out of being quotable, is far less certain.

Well, a few of the curmudgeons are obvious.

</comment><comment><USER12> title says "vs" but there is no real comparison btw 2 companies.</comment>


BeginUp.com - Digg meets YC News - <AUTHOR> http://www.beginup.com/ <comment><USER2> Digg meets YC News... Isn't that YC News?

</comment><comment><USER3> Maybe you can give us some insight into what your differentiators are. What is going to make Begin Up different from say 'killerstartups, launchfeed, etc.

the challenge in this space for anybody is getting enough users to make the community valuable. I think something like this is needed, but in many ways already exists, but doesn't have enough traction to make it effective. For example, on killerstartups, nobody ever leaves comments, but the site does decent traffic, so personally I find the value of the site to be minimal.

I agree with aaroneous - digg meets YC news = YC news.</comment>


Ask HN: Anyone else want a better OS X Mail client? - <AUTHOR> This is my RFP :-)
Mailbox.app isn't very good. Mail.app isn't either.
I'd gladly pay $50 for something better than Mailbox, with the cut-off for 'good' being that I switch to the app and don't go back to Mailbox after 30 days.
I've mentioned this to a few other people, and they've echoed it back with even stronger feelings. I had someone tell me they would pay hundreds right now. I'm not saying there's a startup there, but there's definitely a product there.
Question: Do others outside of the valley (or inside, I suppose) feel this pain? <comment><USER2> What are the issues people mention about Mail.app? Are these issues the 'real' pain points, solution to which users are willing to pay? How much? I use Mail.app and feel there is no "painful" issue for which I will be willing to pay to be fixed.

You can always find people who will complain about any product. But the strong enough pain for them to pay and switch is whole another ballgame. Most will shriek away as soon as they have to pay for a product and change their routine/familiarity of using a known bundled product.

> Mailbox.app isn't very good. Mail.app isn't either.

If you lead any discussion or discovery with such statements, you will always find people who agree with the statement. Most are just reflecting with the sentiment in your question/statement. A good example of this behavior is seen on the segment of Jimmy Kimmel's late night TV show. His people go out on street and ask strangers for their opinion on 'obvious make believe' news and statements. The responses of strangers are hilarious.

It is not a particularly good way to validate market.

<comment><AUTHOR> Heh. I don't want to solve it myself. I want someone to solve it. I will pay $50 for a bug-free version of the previous version of Mailbox.app, today.

Edit: Looks like Mailbox has fixed the app. Nice.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I think there's a quasi-cynical opportunity in developing any category of product that is regularly acquired then quietly allowed to die. For example, it seems like not having a lot of people using a client like Sparrow was worth more to Google than people are willing to pay for an alternative to the browser-based client. Furthermore, because there are a lot of corner cases in IMAP that you must be sufficiently skilled to address, and users have high expectations about reliability, making a good enough client to gain traction is a good sign about your value as an engineer for the acquiring company.

Perhaps a great feature to make such a client's slow death through acquisition even more desirable would be seamless end-to-end encryption so that users' emails provided no marketing data.

</comment><comment><USER4> Did you try [https://postbox-inc.com/](https://postbox-inc.com/) ? It's based on Mozilla Thunderbird

<comment><USER5> This is my client of choice!

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Yes. I'm currently using Mail.app and plan to switch to another client (and don't know which one, yet).

I haven't tried out Mailbox.app but as I understand it only works on Yosemite so that's not an option for me.

I'd also pay up to 50$ if the application is stable, handles mail only (no "productivity suite") and will be updated and maintained for a long time.

</comment><comment><USER7> I used Mutt for two years or so...then mailbox app came along. Then it updated yesterday. Now I'm back to using Mutt.

</comment><comment><USER8> Airmail is pretty good...

</comment><comment><USER9> MailMate is so far the one I have stuck with: [http://freron.com/](http://freron.com/)

<comment><USER10> It's definitely the best for heavy users. I really only care about performance and Postbox, Mail.app, Thunderbird, Outlook and mutt were all too slow.

I haven't tried Mailbox.app, but it's got some weird Dropbox integration so I wouldn't bother.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> This is it: [http://www.kiwiforgmail.com/](http://www.kiwiforgmail.com/)

</comment><comment><USER12> Mailbox was great... until this last update

<comment><USER13> Great might be a bit of a stretch considering that in order to get new emails with graphics to load properly I had to constantly refresh my window by clicking on an older message and then back on the new emails. I'm surprised it took them this long to release a fix, but just this week they've released 3 updates and new messages with graphics are loading just fine.</comment></comment>


Your users are not the product you're selling - <AUTHOR> http://europeanrobot.blogspot.com/2010/09/your-users-are-not-product-youre.html

<comment><USER2> Great post.

To be blunt, I think there is a balance between helping/screwing the users of your free service and helping/screwing your bottom line.

While we like to think of Google and Facebook as altruistic companies, they have bills to pay. Sure I agree that it is critical for them to retain and even grow their userbase, and to try to keep them happy, but they (1) have to make money in order to survive and (2) have to work with various organizations that may access/use that data for purpose that customers are unaware of.

For #1, we have to admit as users that despite the "Do no evil" policy, there are some things that Google is doing against our best interests as users. Same with Facebook, except that they don't even have that policy. :)

For #2, I am by no means trying to fuel some conspiracy theory, but I often wonder if these companies aren't at least partially funded by organizations that would benefit from the information collected. Obviously on the books their stated customers are primarily advertisers, but why wouldn't the CIA, NSA, and every other government's intelligence agency want access to these data sources, and what wouldn't they do to get access to them? I'm not against our government doing what they need to in order to protect us, so it isn't a criticism, but I wonder why I don't see this brought up more often- again, not as a conspiracy theory, but as a legitimate concern/question. We already have to assume that at least some major institutions and companies have some sort of representation by or at least relationships with these agencies, even if few know about them.

<comment><AUTHOR> I agree that it is a mistake to view these companies as altruistic entities, after all, they're not charity organizations. They will use your data some way or another to increase their revenues and I think within reasonable limits this is acceptable.

As for government agencies, I'm more afraid of my data ending up in incompetent hands. Governmental organizations are not exactly known for their competency, neither here in England nor across the Atlantic. Someone incompetent with access to my data, even with the best intentions may cause serious trouble to me, not to mention someone without exactly the best intentions.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> He's right that users will leave if you use them... However, you can use them a LOT before the vast majority will be upset, and then a lot more before they actually do something about it.

Look at Facebook. That site is the least consumer-friendly site I've ever joined. They don't care about privacy and only respond to outrage. And despite all the 'leave facebook' protests, they continue to grow and make money both.

Is it ethical? No. But there's a lot of money to be made and sometimes it's easier to do so if you're unethical. So they are.

I wouldn't treat my customers unethically, but then, I'm not a millionaire, am I?</comment>


MicroPython – Python for microcontroller - <AUTHOR> https://micropython.org/

<comment><USER2> GAME CHANGER. sorry for caps but this is huge. I have used arduino heavily but I can tell you it has its specifics and a universally accepted language with nice syntax like python will generate a massive uptick in projects and creativity.

That being said I would love to contribute.

<comment><USER3> Do you know the eLua Project? It might also correspond to what you want.

[http://www.eluaproject.net/](http://www.eluaproject.net/)

<comment><USER2> interesting thanks

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Looks promising, i found this post if someone is interested: [https://blog.dbrgn.ch/2014/5/6/first-tests-with- micropython/](https://blog.dbrgn.ch/2014/5/6/first-tests-with-micropython/)

</comment><comment><USER5> Reminds me of the "Java Processor" [1]

I wonder if anyone is trying to revive that now?

[1] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_processor](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_processor)

<comment><USER6> While proprietary and not very open to (or usable at all by...) hobbyists, ARMs Jazelle[1] is listed there at the bottom:

> The most prominent use of Jazelle DBX is by manufacturers of mobile phones > to increase the execution speed of Java ME games and applications. A > Jazelle-aware Java Virtual Machine (JVM) will attempt to run Java bytecodes > in hardware, while returning to the software for more complicated, or > lesser-used bytecode operations. ARM claims that approximately 95% of > bytecode in typical program usage ends up being directly processed in the > hardware.

Jazelle seems to be "old news" now though, replaced by something else.

While not the same thing as a hardware Java implementation, JavaCard[2] is pretty interesting. It's quite a bit different from "big" Java (especially the language features available), but it's very widely adopted in mobile phone SIM cards and traditional smart cards. I've got a yubikey neo here which is a JavaCard smartcard intentionally left very open to experimentation (the keys needed to manage the card and upload new applets aren't secret). I've uploaded applets to it on my own, both the OpenPGP applet and some simple stuff I wrote to play around.

[1][http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazelle](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazelle)

[2][http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Card](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Card)

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> FYI Damien George (creator of MicroPython) will be giving a couple of talks at next month's PyconUK ([http://pyconuk.org/](http://pyconuk.org/)) about said project. If there's enough interest, there may even be a more practical hands on session too.

</comment><comment><USER8> I'm not really a huge fan of Python. None the less this is a really interesting project... makes me wonder if something similar could be done using Scheme.

</comment><comment><USER9> I can understand the need for smaller runtime, but why a dedicated board? I mean, what not on top of arduino/pi/other existing board?

<comment><USER10> I'm just speculating, but maybe for low-level driver standardization?

I've used devices with python projects on the pi and some of the driver setup can get tricky.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Is there a list of interesting/useful non-hobby projects made with this? Or even something similar to this?

<comment><USER12> Considering that it just came out, no.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> I would love to have some opinions of people that have used this. What for and how was it?</comment>


Monsanto ordered to pay 2B dollars to couple with cancer - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/13/business/monsanto-roundup-cancer-verdict.html <comment><USER2> Thorough discussion earlier (241 points, 17 hours ago, 234 comments):

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19904250](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19904250)

</comment><comment><USER3> To clarify with this staggering figure. The couple's lawyer requested 1 billion each, the jury reached a verdict in their favour regarding the cancer but they don't get to say "yes we find Monsanto guilty but only for X payout". So the actual payout will likely be in the range of 1/10th of that as they always get reduced by the judge.

<comment><USER4> I appreciate this clarification, but still find this a bit absurd. I'm all for making corporations responsible for their actions as it surely doesn't happen enough, but even $200M is a huge amount of money for one couple.

Wasn't this used by many farmers?

Making a small number of huge payouts does not seem like justice for the majority of people affected.

<comment><USER5> Punitive damages came largely out of the Ford Pinto cases because prior to that corporate leaders would just do the calculations, figure out that the limited amount of damage/fines allowed by the law is cheaper than the cost of fixing the issue. Punitive damage is in a way meant to be absurd. The idea that the sky is the limit is meant to make those calculations impossible or very risky and thus compel corporations to fix the issue once they know about it. There are some unintended consequences of course but often times when you see such cases there are usually a history of knowing neglect or willful ignorance. In the other famous punitive damage case involving McDonald's, there was a trail of complaints to McDonald's about how hot they made their coffee (they did this on purpose because people who get coffee in the morning tend to be drivers so extra hot coffee means right temperature when they get to their office). Even then, McDonald's was only found to be partially at fault. Also many of the tobacco cases demonstrated a long history of tobacco companies knowing the health effects of smoking and lied about them.

The way these cases are sometimes reported makes American courts look crazy and leave out a lot of context and history.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> This is what epa said:

Last month, the Environmental Protection Agency issued an interim review that said the agency "continues to find that there are no risks to public health when glyphosate is used in accordance with its current label and that glyphosate is not a carcinogen."

Here is what EFSA said:

[http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/topics/topic/glyphosate](http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/topics/topic/glyphosate)

In September 2017, articles appeared in a number of European press outlets casting doubt on the integrity of the EU assessment of glyphosate, in particular the content of the assessment report submitted to EFSA by the German Federal Institute for Risk Assessment (BfR). EFSA responded with a statement in which it defended the robustness of the EU assessment and pointed out that the allegations were based on a misunderstanding of the peer review process.

This drug has been used forever so there should be a lot of data available.

</comment><comment><USER7> If that's what it takes to make these companies not behave like absolute gangsters so be it.

Most big to massive companies wipe their butts with a couple million dollars fines as a "cost of doing business".

<comment><USER8> This won't do anything. The appeals court will reverse it because scientific evidence disagrees with the jury and the court shouldn't have allowed whatever evidence convinced the jury in the first place.

Monsanto might be evil, but don't fight them with evil. The end of those means is evil.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Finally a sum of money which is at least at the same scale as the wrongdoing.

They have to shut Monsanto down and sentence the decision makers.

<comment><USER10> Like the EPA? [https://www.epa.gov/ingredients-used-pesticide- products/glyp...](https://www.epa.gov/ingredients-used-pesticide- products/glyphosate)

A legal system that allows $2B punitive awards based on factual findings contrary to the official position of the government enforcing that legal system is not a legal system, but simply mob rule.

<comment><USER11> >contrary to the official position of the government enforcing that legal system is not a legal system, but simply mob rule.

Mob rule? It's the judicial system, one of 3 branches of government designed specifically to place checks and balances on the other branches, it's the exact opposite of mob rule.

Mob rule would be the EPA deciding for everyone what the science is and not allowing any due process or acces to the courts to challenge the same.

You do know it came out at trial how Monsanto was able to influence the EPA including delaying the re-review of roundup ingredients , which was required by federal law, to allow their acquisition to go through?

Do you think it's just coincidence 13,000 plaintiffs were diagnosed with non- Hodgkins lymphoma that worked with roundup for years even though those statistics are inconsistent with the general population?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> This is really absurd. All evidence points to Roundup not causing cancer, but apparently science is irrelevant to the law.

<comment><USER13> That's not true. There have been many studies indicating a possible link between Roundup and cancer, which is why it was listed as"possible carcinogen"and even banned in France. Besides, Monsanto even tried to make studies that showed no link between the two. Science does matter

<comment><USER8> Science does matter. The evidence is roundup doesn't cause cancer. When something is studied a lot you will find outliers that show the wrong result.

Monsanto was evil (they don't exist anymore, though bayer may well be worse) doesn't mean that they are wrong.

<comment><USER14> i wish i could dump a gallon of roundup on everyone who's so cocksure. Honestly.

<comment><USER8> Just don't get it in my eyes or down my lungs. It is safer than the vinegar I have in my kitchen...

<comment><USER14> Those Monsanto checks keeping your heat on or something?</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Announcing NGINX Plus R7 - <AUTHOR> https://www.nginx.com/blog/nginx-plus-r7-released/ <comment><USER2> Been using the free version, just checked out their dashboard, that looks pretty nice. Might have to get my webmaster to pony up for it, so I can run it.

[http://demo.nginx.com](http://demo.nginx.com)</comment>


Welcome Jared - <AUTHOR> http://blog.ycombinator.com/welcome-jared <comment><USER2> I'm amazed to see all the positivity and comments about what a great guy he is.

I (phone) interviewed with Scribd 2 years ago with Jared and he left a notably bad impression on me. He seemed arrogant and distant and very displeased to be talking to me. He put me on hold a few times and was talking in the background while asking me questions.

I understand that he probably wasn't pleased having to phonescreen a lowly engineer, I was just taken aback at the rudeness and it's stuck with me.

Anyway. I'm taking it as opportunity to recalibrate my initial judgement filter.

<comment><USER3> I'm truly sorry to hear that. I actually did 100% of all phone screens with engineers for the first seven years of Scribd.

That had good aspects in that I was able to talk to every single person who was interested in working with us, but it also had bad aspects where towards the end there were days when I let my schedule get too crowded and I ended up having to attempt to do phone screens and other things at the same time.

While I certainly wasn't trying to be rude, I can see how it could come off that way. After a while, I corrected for it and we trained a set of other people who helped with interviews, and it no longer happened. But clearly the damage was done, and really there's no excuse for coming across as rude to anyone, ever.

Sam has a quote about this: "Don't screw people and don't burn bridges. Pick your battles carefully."

Sam is right. The industry we work in is very small and people have long memories. It's incredibly important to treat every single person you meet with the utmost respect. I'm not sure who you are since you posted anonymously, but I'd love to make amends over a beer if you're up for it.

<comment><USER4> Well, as soon as I saw parent, I thought like he's telling my story!

I had the exact same experience, and I've done maybe 50-60 interviews so far, and I interviewed at least that many people, your interview was the worst.

Our interview took about 60 mins, and after asking a string DP question, basically you returned your daily job, no feedback, no questions, and took at least couple of phone calls during the interview.

I understand you now acknowledge that was a bad thing, and I appreciate that, but again, it was beyond rude IMHO.

<comment><USER5> I'm not sure how I feel about anonymous throwaway accounts posting unflattering anecdotes about someone. None of us spectators have any way of judging what happened for ourselves, and without a name or at least a posting history attached it's hard to take these grievances too seriously.

<comment><USER6> Most organizations past a certain size will provide for anonymous feedback internally both among peers and up the org chart. Why do you think this is? Why do you think most organizations also have policies providing for penalties, including dismissal, for retaliation against people who provide honest feedback?

It's because sometimes people can be vindictive, petty assholes, and it's a small world. FWIW it does seem like Jared just had too much on his plate at the time - no big deal. But shame on you for calling someone out for providing honest feedback (which was well-received, at that), just because it was anonymous.

<comment><USER7> > _But shame on you_

Please don't post uncivil comments to Hacker News.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

<comment><USER6> How would I express that sentiment civilly, then? The only intent of that statement was to convey "I think you should feel some shame for what you've done with your post." It seems like a perfectly civil statement to me - I am not insulting anyone here - so I'm honestly wondering. I disagree that I've stepped outside the guidelines here.

e: I've noticed you usually ignore responses like this. I hope you don't ignore this one.

<comment><USER7> You would express it civilly by making your comment be about the subject, not the person you're talking to. It's fine to say "I don't think it's right to do X", and explain why. It's not fine to say "Shame on you for X". That's an attempt to punish somebody. Shame is a social truncheon, and in civil discussion we don't pull weapons on one another.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> In addition to being one of our most helpful and thoughtful angels, Jared's just a genuinely nice guy.

When I read this, I immediately thought of Jared: [http://paulgraham.com/safe.html](http://paulgraham.com/safe.html)

Big win for YC.

<comment><USER9> Big +1 to this. Thrilled to see the great work Jared will be doing at YC.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> I have known Jared for about 8 years. He is one of the kindest and most intelligent people I know. Talking about a complicated topic with Jared is a joy. His incisive mind gets to the heart of things extremely rapidly. I often find myself thinking about the points he makes days after the conversation. Any founders would be lucky to talk through their business with Jared.

</comment><comment><USER11> Jared is one of the best angels I've ever worked with and he's been high value add for Zesty, having invested in us before we even got into YC. Stoked for both YC and Jared!

</comment><comment><USER12> Definitely agree with what BlackJack said, Jared was absolutely fantastic when I went through the recruiting process at Scribd. Excited to see what's to come for him at YC.

</comment><comment><USER13> Jared is such a great guy. I remember emailing/talking to him when I was applying for an internship and he had great advice and cared a lot for me.

</comment><comment><USER14> Huge fan of Jared. I met him a long time ago at a random party and he agreed to have coffee and share startup / YC advice.

</comment><comment><USER15> Jared has truly been an inspiration for me.

Apart from being an extremely bright and insightful person, he is remarkably down to earth and gave me sound advice during a particularly rough patch in my life!

Congratulations Jared! I hope you enjoy your time at YC.

</comment><comment><USER16> Awesome news! One of the valleys best angels and mentors.

</comment><comment><USER17> I immediately thought of this Jared: [http://bit.ly/1VIfJ63](http://bit.ly/1VIfJ63)

</comment><comment><USER18> Huge win for YC. Congrats snowmaker!

</comment><comment><USER19> Congrats Jared, this is amazing news!

</comment><comment><USER20> Fantastic news. Congrats Jared!

</comment><comment><USER21> Congrats! It's exciting to see how YC continues to grow.

</comment><comment><USER22> I love reading things like this that show the startup community is growing. Good luck Jared!

</comment><comment><USER23> This is such good news for YC!

</comment><comment><USER24> Congrats!

</comment><comment><USER25> huge congrats Jared!

</comment><comment><USER26> First thing that came to my mind. Does Jared have Aides?

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgZVvCvpFJs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgZVvCvpFJs)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Has_Aides](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Has_Aides)</comment>


Ask HN: It's 2019. Why start a new project in anything other than Rust? - <AUTHOR> The only reasons I can think of is petty fanboy reasons. Rust solves most problems and will make the world a lot safer. There's no reason to start new projects in Go, C++. C#, etc, is there? <comment><USER2> It's a little unclear... is this actually a question or are you here to make inflammatory statements?

</comment><comment><USER3> Different langauges have their uses. For most of my programming I use Unicon. It gives me most of what I want - there are things that are not available in it, but I can live with that. The fact that "failure" is an option makes many of my projects simpler. Not having to concern myself with booleans for coding purposes is often refreshing. But that's just my take on it.

</comment><comment><USER4> Use the language that best fits the job and you're most productive in.</comment>


Why I moved in with college students to build a better app - <AUTHOR> http://venturebeat.com/2014/09/06/why-i-moved-into-a-college-dorm-to-build-a-better-app/

<comment><AUTHOR> Last (school) year, I spent 6 months living with undergrads, attending classes, and getting involved with extracurriculars at UC Berkeley. I'm 30. And a startup CEO (ex TaskRabbit's 2nd eng. /1st product mgr).

This was a design experiment taking observation / user testing to an extreme: complete immersion. I published my notes on VentureBeat, but really would like to hear what the hn community thinks of using immersion as a design technique. Innovative customer development or ridiculous waste of time?</comment>


Facebook's Custom IPv6 Range - <AUTHOR> https://ao.gl/facebooks-custom-ipv6-range/ <comment><USER2> its not really all that "custom".... facebook have a shead load of IPv6 space, and based on what hurricane electric say ([https://bgp.he.net/AS32934#_prefixes6](https://bgp.he.net/AS32934#_prefixes6)) most of it is registered in Ireland... their main prefix is a /32, so the first 2 groups of digits are given to them by the RIR (RIPE probably, since its Europe) and the rest is up to them... they can have anything in there in hex... I have seen traceroutes with dead:beef, deca:feba:d, etc... its up to the net admin to make it out how they want... what would be custom is if they had that at the start of their block...

<comment><AUTHOR> Good to know, thanks for the info! :)

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Does anyone know any other companies that are doing this sort of thing?</comment>


Show HN: React Easy State 6 – Practical Proxy Based React State Management - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/solkimicreb/react-easy-state <comment><AUTHOR> Easy State is a minimalistic transparent Proxy based React stage management library with a stronger focus on practicality than code beauty. V6 added sync render batching for common task sources to improve performance.</comment>


Undergraduate programming - <AUTHOR> http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2008/01/08.html

<comment><USER2> I was about to submit this one myself...

The article referenced does identify a major problem in an undergraduate programming curriculum. I like the idea of a BFA in programming (this idea has been around for a while), as well as a rigorous program that requires a much deeper understanding of programming languages. Java schools are a problem, no question about it.

But I'm a little sceptical about how much it will help in the grand scheme of things. I'm starting to figure that trying to create a truly talented programmer through a CS curriculum is like trying to create a truly talented novelist through a creative writing program. An intellectual environment is valuable... but how many students are there who _would_ have learned the things listed in this report (functional programming, proper memory management in C, LISP, ada, proper use of threads, a deep understanding of what happens under the hood, as well as solid mathematics) _if and only if_ the curriculum had been different? Or would these students, who will be few under any circumstances, find their way to these subjects anyway?

I don't know the answer to this question. I have a feeling that a better curriculum is worthwhile, and would improve the number of excellent graduates - in other words, while I think that some will find their way to this material on their own, I do agree that there are people who will not achieve the talent level they are capable of because of misguided course requirements. But I wouldn't expect this to turn lots of people into highly talented programmers any more than a writing program is going to produce a bunch of spectacular novels. It just ain't in a lot of people (including, I'm starting to suspect, myself).

<comment><USER3> "I'm starting to figure that trying to create a truly talented programmer through a CS curriculum is like trying to create a truly talented novelist through a creative writing program."

On news.yc we tend to only talk about truly great programmers because that is what is required for startups, but I feel like there is still some role in the world for programmers who are merely competent and good at what they do, in the same way that there is still a need for proficient writers to produce technical manuals and ad copy.

<comment><USER4> _we tend to only talk about truly great programmers because that is what is required for startups_

That's not what we look for. The evidence so far (and there is now quite a lot of it) suggests that it's more important that the founders be very effective people than great programmers.

I suspect this is true even in research, but certainly in startups, someone who is reasonably smart and very driven will beat someone who is brilliant but ineffectual.

<comment><USER5> Are there ways to make yourself more driven?

<comment><USER4> Definitely. Graduating from college, because you lose the option of going back to school if you fail. Having a taste of success. Doing something that will be judged by your peers. Feeling like what you do will make a difference to the world. Having people depend on you. Losing the illusion that you have infinite time.

<comment><USER3> Trying to increase your productivity by changing your intrinsic work ethic seems difficult and also inefficient.

How hard people work also depends to a large extent on the systemic environment in which the work takes place. The Hawthorne studies showed this back in the 20s. The basic idea was these researchers went to to study the effect of lighting on worker productivity. They went to this factory with two rooms, and they dimmed the lights in one and walked around and asked people how they felt about the change. The worker's output was measured in pieces produced, so it was easy to measure productivity. What they found was that when the room was dimmer, worker productivity increased. This didn't seem right to them, so they made the lights even dimmer and productivity increased again. And then they made it so it was almost pitch black and the productivity was at an all time high. What they found was that worker productivity was increasing due to having the scientists walk around and take interest in the factory workers. (I would have linked to the Wikipedia article, but it isn't very good.)

There are a whole series of studies since then showing that the idea that some people are hard workers and some people are lazy is misleading at best, because someone's work ethic is more determined by the environment than any intrinsic quality (although different people need different environments).

This is the same basic idea behind the Milgram experiments, where he showed that the majority of people had the capability to carry out the deeds of the Nazi's under the right systemic environment, and that the evil deeds of the Germans weren't so much intrinsic to the people themselves rather than the larger social system.

Even today there is a lot of really really valuable research coming out in this area. Just as an example, this is a good article on using psychology to motivate contributions to online communities:

<http://jcmc.indiana.edu/vol10/issue4/ling.html>

Bob Kraut has a lot of really good papers in this area relating to the Internet that are around online.

<comment><USER6> In many ways, PG's suggestions do imply a change in your environment as well. And so, it may not necessarily be contradictory to your position / the cited research.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> >There are already several programs going in this direction: a lot of Canadian universities, notably Waterloo, have Software Engineering programs...

Waterloo has Software Engineering, but its not really aimed in the direction he is suggesting. Software engineering is basically Computer Science (math dept) and Computer Engineering (engineering dept) combined. Really, I do mean combined, because it approaches double the work of either program, or it did a few years ago.

What Waterloo has done to address the issues Joel presents is to create a new Bachelor of Computer Science (not to be confused with a BS, it is a BCS). This program is designed to reduce some of the math requirements in later years and allow individuals to have more upper year CS courses. They have not eliminated any of the math or theory out of the curriculum in the first few years.

Waterloo has not had a problem teaching Java to first year students, mainly because the focus is not put on the language. They don't really have any courses designed to just teach you a language, the goal is to teach programming concepts. Early on OOP, data structures, and so on are taught, then things move into algorithms.

</comment><comment><USER8> Richard Gabriel came up with something similar several years ago: The software MFA.

<http://www.dreamsongs.com/MFASoftware.html>

He draws analogies between software composition and creative writing, performing plays, etc. Worth a look for those interested in the current thread.

</comment><comment><USER9> He makes a great point. Perhaps an apprenticeship more than a degree? I know friends in a neighbouring university where part of the course requirement is to work in industry at least one day a week. I've learnt far more working for 6 months in a startup than I did in 3 years of Computer Science.

The trouble is you might not know that you don't enjoy computer science until you've tried it. How would you advertise the course?

Perhaps Olin College could serve as a model for this approach [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_W._Olin_College_of_Eng...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_W._Olin_College_of_Engineering)]

</comment><comment><USER10> In all fairness, I guess it depends on what you need to do. For the vast majority of the day to day coding, it involves more of the architecturing and creative and puzzle solving side that joel talks about.

However, if an abstraction breaks down, you'll need to have a deeper understanding of the innards, which a sound theory can only help the deeper down you go. I think this is even more applicable if you're using something based on math that isn't as mature of a technology (which means they're not a commodity and you'll probably have to fix it if it goes haywire), such as machine learning techniques or computer vision.

How often would that happen? Not very often. But when it does, and you have the background to learn, understand, and fix it, that'll make all the difference between you and the next guy.

</comment><comment><USER11> "kids who are really interesting in programming, not computer science"

I have troubles imagining that kind of person? In any case, I would be wary of a programmer who doesn't even know Quicksort.

</comment><comment><USER12> I have nearly the exact opposite opinion of Joel here. I think the problem is that Java schools try to teach programming without teaching computer science. Mostly they avoid programming and computer science as much as possible and try prepare their students for jobs in IT departments and enterprise and maintenance coding.

I have zero time for any programmer who isn't interested in algorithms, structures and languages. But I've never met a good programmer who isn't.

</comment><comment><USER13> I spoke to 2nd year Comp Sci undergraduate a few days ago. I'm about 70% sure he said the main language they teach is Java (I don't recall him ever speaking about C/C++). I was telling him about my forays into Haskell and how function composition combined with recursion often confuses me.

His reply: What's recursion?

It's surprising really. Although I hate Java it does have a wide range of concepts within, including recursion surely. Perhaps they focus on displaying a GUI window rather than understanding binary search, etc.

* * *

I think drawing up an "Arts" programme in computer science is a good idea. But only as a MA lest you'll see more variations of the aforementioned example. Things are different in the UK though because university enrolment is linked to university funding.

If I did meet an artistic person who was interested in computer science I'd give her the following advice: learn the very basics of computer hardware (input, encoding into bits and logic, ouput), learn how to read programming documentation/books/tutorials (I'm not sure how I'd expand on this). Once you've understood for loops, switch statements, closures, recursion, etc take those in the same way you took the building blocks you used in your childhood games. Then build something using them.

Of course it may well be wise to take an undergraduate in computer science (of the old c/c++ kind -- ones that focus on core concepts basically) to practice the for loops, closures, etc if the artistic person isn't great at self-study.

</comment><comment><USER14> I wonder if the focus/content of an undergrad program really influences the outcome for whether or not person x will be a great programmer.

Many great programmers began before university, and many didn't attend university at all (John Carmack immediately springs to mind).

</comment><comment><USER15> There is a lot of cynicism about undergraduate CS -- but no one in the industry offers internships to anyone but students. If you don't like what the Universities are selling, stop buying it!

</comment><comment><USER16> My college switched from C++ to Java based coding in 2005 for learning the fundamentals. I would have much rather learned C++.

<comment><USER11> So get a good book on C++. Frankly, I don't consider programming languages university level at all...

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> "The teachers are experienced software developers from industry. The studio operates like a software company."

Oh, you mean like ycombinator?

<comment><USER18> Maybe more like ArsDigita University. That went over well, but the website at least is still serving the videos:

<http://www.aduni.org/></comment></comment>


Crafting Interpreters: Classes - <AUTHOR> http://www.craftinginterpreters.com/classes.html <comment><USER2> As always, I'm happy to answer any questions or talk about this. :)

<comment><USER3> Do you also will do multi-methods? And how it could be another path for object-oriented programming? This is unexpected for me.

\---

Other pet peeve of mine is how build control-flows. Using continuations is complicated (I'm using F#) and cause a drop in performance. I wonder what else could be use that allow to make exceptions/coroutines.

Or how make delimited continuations to work reasonable well. The code I have found is in scheme/lisp and it look hard to dechiper.

<comment><USER2> > Do you also will do multi-methods?

No, the book will only go into implementing single dispatch. I'd love to talk about implementing multimethods, but _I_ don't know how to implement them very well either. :) I've read a few papers on it, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of literature. Maybe it's mostly locked up in tribal knowledge and you have to be in the right room with the right people to learn it.

<comment><USER4> I'm assuming that you've seen this then? [http://people.csail.mit.edu/jrb/Projects/pd.pdf](http://people.csail.mit.edu/jrb/Projects/pd.pdf)

<comment><USER5> [https://github.com/googoogaga/goo](https://github.com/googoogaga/goo) continued for a bit, then didn't.

OT: With Google Chrome's new Turbofan, and its altered inlining budgeting, there now seems a chance of inlining dispatch trees. Combined with PICs, and cpu branch prediction and speculation... there seems hope for wizzy multiple dispatch in javascript. Maybe. I don't know of anyone pushing on it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Just wanted to say how much I enjoy getting each new chapter. You have an amazingly approachable writing style. Many thanks.

<comment><USER2> Thank you!

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> This looks fantastic. I look forward to reading, and implementing my next special snowflake language -- with a real VM this time!</comment>


How You Can Build an HTML5 Photobooth App - <AUTHOR> http://www.storminthecastle.com/2013/05/07/how-you-can-build-an-html5-photobooth-app/

<comment><USER2> If you want to experiment with some filters like this in real time with your webcam, I made a simple page to do this: <http://mizzouacm.github.io/javascript-workshop/>

You can fill in the filter function to see the effects in real time. You can also get screenshots by clicking the filtered video. It's pretty fun to see what interesting filters you can come up with.

I can't take credit for the idea; I got it from the wonderful Hackers At Berkeley workshop[1]. I am starting a similar club at my university and wanted to do the same kind of workshop. I rewrote the demo because I wanted it to be real time, and I also just wanted the fun of implementing it myself :)

[1] Blog about workshop: <http://blog.hackersatberkeley.com/?p=97> Demo: <http://introjs.hackersatberkeley.com/>

</comment><comment><USER3> I recently built a HTML5 Photobooth using WebGL. It was a lot of fun.

Warning: uses webcam and destroys graphics cards (I'm not doing much memory management and creating shaders on the fly)... <http://davidwparker.com/graphics/miniphotobooth/>

<comment><USER4> That's pretty cool.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I've been thinking about doing a cheap and easy photobooth for my wedding next year. it sounds like this + a webcam + a raspberry pi like device could provide a cool way for guests to take photobooth pics, set filters and share them without having to spend more than 100 bucks in parts.

<comment><USER6> <http://labs.ideo.com/2012/12/14/happy-25th-birthday-gif/> seems pretty cool. We actually did this for a SxSW party this year. We were pleased with the results -- <http://gifxgifw.tumblr.com/> .

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> There's some other great examples of this done before: <http://wolframhempel.github.io/photobooth-js/></comment>


YCombinator Gunners-A Review of all the YCombinator Competitors - <AUTHOR> http://startupmeme.com/2007/04/25/ycombinator-gunners/ <comment><USER2> Haha, the author doesn't realize Y2 is a joke!

<comment><AUTHOR> Well I know its a joke and I put it in the list to extend the joke a bit further.

haha you didnt realized that the author realized that its a joke :)

<comment><USER2> Touche</comment></comment></comment>


'Deep' layoffs expected at Yahoo - <AUTHOR> http://www.itworld.com/software/255822/deep-layoffs-expected-yahoo <comment><USER2> I am amazed that anyone still works there.

Are facebook and google continually inundated with Yahoo ex-pat applications?

Anyone at Yahoo on HN that could provide a day-in-the-life?

Or anyone from Yahoo have any stories of trying to find work elsewhere?

<comment><USER3> I left Yahoo three weeks ago to do my own thing. There are lots of talented people at Yahoo - there are not too many companies which deal with the kind of scale and tech Yahoo does and a lot of people like that. Some of them have been there for over a decade. What is happening to the company is very sad.

<comment><USER2> >...there are not too many companies which deal with the kind of scale and tech Yahoo does and a lot of people like that"

Google, Facebook, Apple - all here in the bay area, all massive scale. Are yahooligans not flocking to these giants?

<comment><USER4> Well moving jobs, even for the most talented employees can be difficult for a number of reasons.

1) inertia, there is alot to be said for working at the same place for 10 years, you know the people, systems, and processes. By this time you might be 35 and married with a few kids. Often you don't know if you have the energy to go do it all over again.

2) fear of failure. If you've been somewhere and grown into a role as the go to person it can be a big blow to the ego to tell your friends you're going to go interview at google or facebook, only to be rejected.

3) moving sideways or taking a step backward. Just because you became a senior developer level 5 at yahoo doesn't mean you'd be able to do the same role at google or facebook. You may have to settle for a smaller role or even a pay cut to join those companies.

<comment><USER2> All the points you make are negative. I.e. they all point to reasons, fear based, which a Yahoo employee would be staying. That sucks.

Sure, Yahoo is scale - but isn't it in 95% maintenance mode? What innovation is Yahoo doing. I am not aware of any initiatives like at Google and Facebook where they are doing something along the lines of the open computing, or their own hardware dev for datacenter infrastructure advancement. I could be completely misinformed.

I am, however, of the opinion that we are just watching Yahoo on life support. A zombie company with vital signs (users) but no cognitive ability (growth, innovation, new products etc).

I am not trying to denigrate Yahoo -- I just have seen _nothing_ that gives me any confidence what-so-ever that I should care about them as a company.

I don't know how much cash they have - but I have said this in the past here on HN - if there was anyone with any brains in the Yahoo C-Suite, they would be taking their wads of cash and backing every startup in the valley in a YC manner with the same goal of owning 5-10% of the future.

They should be widely investing in the market and then leveraging their "massive scale" infrastructure, datacenter expertise etc to hosting and supporting all these companies.

There is lot of opportunity that Yahoo is simply too complacent to take advantage of.

Yahoo _could_ be a game changer if they stopped trying to think of themselves as a portal or even search site (I don't think they believe at all they are a search portal given their fealty to Bing) and start realizing that they are an infrastructure asset with ~2 billion in cash and over a decade of valley domain expertise in high volume traffic. (They had 2B in both 2003 and in 2009 as far as I can find)

Invest/buy/acquire like mad and get a good % of the action in the valley. Get NEW users on that infrastructure which appears to be rotting.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Interesting timing:

 _Yahoo, the Internet search engine turned news and multimedia portal, will unveil its first season of scripted comedy programming on Monday._

[https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/04/arts/television/yahoo- sta...](https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/04/arts/television/yahoo-starts-its- first-season-of-scripted-comedy-programming.html)

<comment><USER6> I think the comedy that goes on at the rest of Yahoo is quite unscripted.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> How deep? Will it include the board members :)

<comment><USER8> I also think this is an insightful comment. Very insightful. Yahoo! has a cadre of absolutely brilliant people working for it: it would be better to ditch the board entirely, and reform into a reverse-Y-combinator: take 5000 people and create 1000 startups with 5 ppl each.

Wow, actually this is a really good idea.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Could this be a move to make themselves more attractive for a M&A perhaps?

</comment><comment><USER10> I wonder what will happen to the technology research team at YUI. I really learned a lot from the YUI Theater and the many amazing JavaScript presentations from Douglas Crockford.

</comment><comment><USER11> "Yahoo, of course, has had stagnant revenue and share price for several years now as it has been eclipsed by Google and Facebook as a favorite destination for online advertisers."

We manage PPC for a lot of companies and we would love to spend more money on Yahoo, but they don't have enough traffic. We are maxing out on Yahoo, but Google has way more eyeballs

</comment><comment><USER12> original article: [http://allthingsd.com/20120305/yahoos-new-ceo-preps-major- re...](http://allthingsd.com/20120305/yahoos-new-ceo-preps-major- restructuring-including-significant-layoffs/)

</comment><comment><USER13> I hope Yahoo Games will still be around because that's the only Yahoo service that I use nowadays

</comment><comment><USER14> How in the world do they have 14,000 employees? I just checked the Yahoo.com site right now, yup still looks the same as it did in 1998 except now it's nicely formatted for an 800px wide monitor. What are all these people doing all day long?

<comment><USER15> Yahoo owns a bunch of things like Flickr (and previously Delicious). Though IIRC, I thought that they already cut a bunch of staff from these other projects.

<comment><USER14> I bet half the people on HN could run Flickr better by themselves.

<comment><USER5> Flickr could probably run Flickr better by themselves, too.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> hmm I guess FB is not paying up on Patent fees huh..

</comment><comment><USER17> They should've become MS's bitches when they had a chance.</comment>


First crowdsourced, open data address list launches in the UK - <AUTHOR> http://www.geektime.com/2015/01/15/first-crowdsourced-open-data-address-list-launches-in-the-uk/

<comment><USER2> You're welcome, GCHQ.</comment>


Ask HN: Why do we still follow the 'Folder' metaphor? - <AUTHOR>

I've noticed that I often have files that feel like they would be equally fitting in one of several folders, and it's easy to forget where I've put them; so I resort to searching. I understand that it would be difficult to completely get rid of the folder metaphor, but why aren't there any tag based file browsers? <comment><USER2> The problem is this needs to be an change throughout an operating system or it doesn't work.

I know there have been userspace file system projects for Linux systems that have attempted the tagging system, but none have really become mainstream. Gnome seems to be going in the direction of time-pased file sorting which is another non-folder oriented way of thinking.

On the Apple side I think they really want their users to be searching in preference to tagging.

Microsoft had a go with Windows 7, but obviously they want users to be able to upgrade their old operating system making it impractical to make it a global default.

But the other thing to consider is 'Cloud' computing, a lot of online services (eg Google's) use tagging rather than a folder modal. This means if software moves more online/browser based we'll see tag-based systems emerge naturally.

Edit: Fixed some typos

</comment><comment><USER3> I'm a big fan of tags, and I would argue that we are giving up the folder metaphor, it is just happening online first (tags was a big part of "web 2.0" sites, gmail's labels, using google to find files based on keywords, etc).

The location where files are stored is where tags are a bit awkward. The folders are clear there. It's easy with folders to copy a picture from an SD card to my hard drive. From hd to a network mount.

The alternative would be to have magical tags, so everything you gave the 'hd' tag to, it would be stored on your hd.

In fact, the whole concept of adding a storage device to the system is strange with tags. Mount a 1Tb network share and automatic indexing starts? A standardized format for storing tag-information? What about computers that just change files directly without updating the tags? What about incompatible formats?

I wonder if applications could do a better job at tagging up files they create compared to the approach (in apple spotlight) to have search engine plugins that can find tags based on file content (mp3 id data, jpeg exif data,...).

If applications were more tag-aware, they could at least allow you to browse your files by tags instead of by folders.

<comment><AUTHOR> I think you've addressed something pretty important. There is a difference between where something is stored and what is being stored. My issue with the folder metaphor is that it assumes those two are related when it reality they can be completely decoupled.

Choose to save the file either on HD, external drive, or online, then choose how to find it, tags.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Well, in a way, doesn't Apple's Spotlight provide a kind of tag/search based file system?

For what it's worth, my answer to your actual question is that for a large number of people and cases, the folder metaphor works well. You have individual items (files, pictures, songs, etc.) which belong in one bin. When you want that item, you open that bin. It's a real-life scenario that we all make use of every day (consider a refrigerator or a drawer with clothing, for example)

I'm not saying it's perfect, and certainly it would often be better or easier to be able to say "show me all the files that are (1) in Ruby and (2) have a certain method name" rather than "show me all the files in this bin." But folders are not too complex and cover a lot of essential cases.

<comment><AUTHOR> It works well until you have things that don't just fit in one bin. The folder metaphor has worked fine for me until I started getting enough files that they were harder to find. (Is that song in my blues folder or jazz? Is that photo in the Family folder or GroupShots)

I understand that it would be hard to completely remove folders, but it would be nice to have the option to use tags for those of us with over growing file collections.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> <http://wiki.github.com/marook/tagfs/demo>

It needs to have its corners rounded and rough edges smoothed out if you were looking for an easy solution, but it's there.

<comment><USER6> Nifty! You implemented a full "cross product" or "permutation" directory structure of all tag sets of all sizes, with symlinks at the leaves.

<comment><USER5> Err, I had nothing to do with the creation/implementation at all! I'm just a knowledgeable hanger-on.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I think some file systems at least aren't as incompatible with this idea as one would think. In linux (all fs?) one has hard-links, which pretty much decouple the file from its location. And from what I remember in earlier FATs, you have different mechanisms for file management and location management (File Allocation Tables for file management, and special directory files over it).

As to why there is no application to take advantage of it... maybe because it requires too much mind-bending. Most people stay as far away as possible from hard links. When you delete a file you want it deleted, not just "not here anymore".

</comment><comment><USER8> I see it as a totally different model. I don't particularly want my files to be stored by tags. I keep a very organized repository of all my stuff. If I want music I go to media/music if I want code I'm working on I'll go to code/projects or stuff I'm not I'll go to code/legacyprojects etc. Directory structures have hierarchy, traditional tag systems do not.

</comment><comment><USER9> Windows 7's Libraries address this exact problem.</comment>


SSH - A Miniature VPN - <AUTHOR> http://bytbox.net/blog/2012/06/ssh-miniature-vpn.html

<comment><USER2> Hmm, the -D option is rather more useful than -L for HTTP forwarding (as it eliminates the hassles with hostnames and DNS). Also, I'd suggest to use autossh for setting up the remote forwards - if the connection is broken, normal ssh won't reconnect, and there goes your "VPN".</comment>


Show HN: Spektral – Deep learning on graphs with Keras - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/danielegrattarola/spektral <comment><USER2> As soon as I saw the title, my reaction was "YESSSS!"... A while ago, I was looking for something like this, but I soon realized that deep learning on graphs is still comparatively new, and not many python modules exist for it.

<comment><USER3> Glad you like it. Now go and build crazy stuff!

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I'd love to tinker with this. What is a classic problem or demo for graph neural networks? Is there an equivalent to the MNIST problem for GNNs that would make a good learning exercise?

</comment><comment><USER5> How is the data fed into the model? Are the graphs represented by a dictionary or an adjacency matrix (or neither)? Does anyone have more links I can read more about graph based deep learning?

<comment><USER2> The official docs have some of the details: [https://danielegrattarola.github.io/spektral/data/](https://danielegrattarola.github.io/spektral/data/)

More about Graph NNs: [https://arxiv.org/pdf/1812.08434.pdf](https://arxiv.org/pdf/1812.08434.pdf)

<comment><USER5> Thank you!!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> YEEES I will finally be able to complete a college assignment that I postponed</comment>


Ask HN: Is it surprising that people participate in social media? - <AUTHOR> I find it very difficult to relate to anyone participating actively in social media. Usually by the time I have formed a statement that expresses a point I want to make, I have convinced myself it's not worth saying.<p>Do others share this natural inclination? Have you ever overcome this? What motivates you to post opinions or respond at all, if you do? Is this a minority point of view, or is this a result of self defined sampling bias? Has anybody studied this? <comment><USER2> To me, HN is social media. So I am unsurprised. Recently, I've been thinking that the problem with social media is that it's hard to use. Culturally, it's so new that there isn't a good understanding of craft and people haven't learned good heuristics via osmosis. But I see the way my child and their friends use it, and it's much more refined and sensible than the way people my age do. It will just take time.</comment>


The Falsehoods - <AUTHOR> http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/08/the_falsehoods.php

<comment><AUTHOR> "The things that people know already often need to be removed from the brain prior to teaching new stuff. This may seem a little offensive to some, but really, it is easier to just admit it."

A thought-provoking pair of sentences. I like how he develops the argument in his blog post.

</comment><comment><USER2> I'm okay with pretty much everything he wrote except:

"An adopted baby is not the biological offspring of her mother."

What does that mean? The kid is the offspring of the biological mother, obviously. I don't get it?

<comment><AUTHOR> That's explained in the comments to the submitted article.

Short answer: an adoptive mother provides BIOLOGICAL inputs (food, etc.) to her children.</comment></comment>