Ask HN - Which OS do you prefer for programming? - <AUTHOR>

* Debian / Ubuntu based Linux * Fedora based Linux * Other Linux distro (Please mention the distro) * Mac OSX (Please mention the version) * Windows (Please mention the version) * Other (Please mention the distro) <comment><USER2> Lubuntu - Ubuntu rich debian repositories without annoying Unity desktop. LXDE is a familiar menu-driven desktop - and fast.

I am a Java 7 AI developer running a multi-monitor development desktop, a server for svn / jenkins continuous integration, an alpha production server, and two linux laptops. I also have a Windows 7 desktop and laptop for testing, and network everything with Samba. Computers range from single core 512MB RAM to four-core 16GB RAM. I use cron jobs and rsync for cross-server backups and also replicate the most important files on Ubuntu One - the cloud backup service.

Lubuntu is fastest for my Java development. I keep 7 virtual desktops on dual monitors and like the familiar menus and taskbars for application switching and monitoring. Years ago I was a Windows NT developer but Linux is much cheaper and much easier to debug via open source. In the last decade I have used Red Hat, SUSE, KDE, Gnome and Ubuntu. I have only one machine left to convert from Ubuntu to Lubuntu with a new install.

</comment><comment><USER3> Arch Linux + Scrotwm as the window manager and desktop environment.

Arch because:

\- It's simple, you only install what you need

\- Don't have to upgrade ever 6 months

\- Software in the repos is always up to date

\- The wiki is extremely helpful and the community is smart

Scrotwm because:

\- Tiling WMs are just more productive to me

\- It is configured with a plain text file

\- It has vim-like keybindings by default

\- It behaves the way my mind works (much like XMonad but without the Haskell)

This setup is fast and nimble and super productive to me, someone who tries to avoid the mouse as much as possible.

I wrote a more detailed post about my setup here: <http://mikethecoder.com/post/10563094906/my-minimalist-setup>

</comment><comment><USER4> Unix based. So basically OS X, or Linux.

I currently use Ubuntu 10.04 LTS but will be switching to Mac OS X Lion here in the coming months on all 3 of my development machines.

</comment><comment><USER5> I'm a PHP developer (if you count that as programming) so can easily develop on anything with a text editor. Unfortunately I also do a lot of PSD->HTML stuff which writes linux out of the equation (GIMP just isn't good enough.)

At the minute I'm running WinXP at work and Win7 at home. If Photoshop were not part of the equation I'd be running xubuntu again.

</comment><comment><USER6> Mac OSX Snow Leopard at work, Ubuntu 10.04 at home. Unfortunately I can't use Lion because I have a 32-bit computer. I've tried extending my dev environment to include Windows, but it's such a hassle making it play nice (line endings, shell scripts etc.) that I've pretty much given that up.

</comment><comment><USER7> Ubuntu with XMonad is the best way I know of of running a web browser, browser console, emacs, and a terminal on-screen simultaneously on a notebook (with a large screen.)

</comment><comment><USER8> Depends on the project.

I use windows, Mac and Ubuntu off and on. Tool wise Mac and Linux are most flexible

</comment><comment><USER9> Windows XP/7 at work and Ubuntu at home

I use Windows 7 for everything beside programming even at home.

</comment><comment><USER10> Mac OS X 10.7.2 It has all of my favorite Unix tools as well as the best Mac apps for development.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> To answer the question myself, I'm on an Xubuntu (Ubuntu but with XFCE)

</comment><comment><USER11> iPhone developer so don't have that much choice really, but would probably still use OSX or Ubuntu given the freedom to choose

</comment><comment><USER12> Ubuntu 11.04 on work and Ubuntu 11.10 at home.

</comment><comment><USER13> Fedora Linux for me.</comment>


How Jos. A Bank Makes Money By Selling One Suit And Giving Seven Away For Free - <AUTHOR> http://www.businessinsider.com/jos-a-bank-business-model-2012-11

<comment><USER2> Thank you, captain obvious.</comment>


HTML5/CSS3: Advanced Topics - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/MartinChavez/HTML-CSS-Advanced-Topics <comment><AUTHOR> _HTML5 /CSS3: Advanced Topics_

Use this tutorial as a guide to learn HTML5 and CSS3. Each unit contains an annotated lesson that can assist you in developing your Web Development skills.

Topics:

\- HTML5 Overview

\- HTML5 Elements

\- HTML5 Forms

\- CSS3 Fonts

\- CSS3 Styles

\- The Document Outline

\- CSS3 Animations

\- Transform: Translate

\- Transform: Rotate

\- Transform: Scale

\- Transform: Skew

\- Transition

[https://github.com/MartinChavez/HTML-CSS-Advanced- Topics](https://github.com/MartinChavez/HTML-CSS-Advanced-Topics)</comment>


Magic Bitboards: Finding all valid bishop moves in a 64-bit multiply (2008) - <AUTHOR> https://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/Magic+Bitboards <comment><AUTHOR> The code I'd like to highlight in this example is as follows:

        U64 bishopAttacks(U64 occ, enumSquare sq) {
           occ &= mBishopTbl[sq].mask;
           occ *= mBishopTbl[sq].magic;
           occ >>= 64-9;
           return mBishopAttacks[sq][occ];
        }

Two bit-operations and one Multiply are all that is needed to "perfect hash" a bishop's position + all of the possible combinations of pieces which might block it. From there, the "occ" variable serves as a lookup-table's index, providing a pre-calculated bitmask of all of the locations a bishop can attack.

It seems like the "occ" bitboard represents the occupancy of the board. (A bitmask of 1 for every piece that could block the bishop's movement). While "enumSquare" seems to be the square the bishop is actually on.

In effect, this is a time-space tradeoff, with every single bishop (or rook) attack being precomputed in a lookup table. Then, during runtime, two-bit operations + one multiply are all that is needed to use the table.

\</comment><comment></comment><comment>---

Some notes to help decipher what is going on:

* Because a chessboard is 64 squares, a 64-bit long integer is all that's needed to represent true/false values across a board. These "true-false" collections across a chessboard are called "bitboards", and can represent anything from board state (Ex: a bitboard that represents all black pawns), to "potential moves a bishop can make" that the AI should iterate against.

* The general problem to solve here is called the Sliding Piece Attack: [https://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/Sliding+Piece+Attack...](https://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/Sliding+Piece+Attacks) . Bishops and Rooks are complicated, because they may be blocked by enemy and/or friendly pieces. Other pieces (Knights, Pawns, or Kings) have much simpler movement patterns.

That's what makes this so magnificent: the calculation in runtime is calculated in something like ~15 clock cycles on a modern machine. (2 cycles for the two bitwise operations, 5 cycles for the multiply, and 5 cycles for an L2 lookup)

<comment><USER2> Imagine an alternate history in which chessboards were always 9x9, but computers were 64 bit as here...

<comment><USER3> Computers used to be 32bit, 16bit, 8bit...

<comment><USER4> But 64-bit is enough to represent essentially any value you might care to manipulate numerically, with rare exceptions such as cryptography. Given the constraints and trade-offs of real world computing, I suspect 128-bit will never become the norm.

<comment><AUTHOR> You might want to look into AVX-512.

Yeah, 512-bits / SIMD computations. If chessboards were bigger, then we'd probably just use the SIMD registers. 128-bit SSE is quite common, and 256-bit AVX has been around for ~5 years now.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Using bit manipulation to calculate chess piece movements is really quite satisfying. If magic bitboards are too confusing, the precursor - "kindergarten bitboards" \- are a bit easier to understand. I have a description here if anyone is curious: [https://github.com/cglouch/snakefish#sliding- pieces](https://github.com/cglouch/snakefish#sliding-pieces)

I think once you understand the principle behind kindergarten bitboards, magic bitboards start to make more sense. It's basically a more clever way of indexing into a precomputed move table, that takes advantage of the redundancy in occupancy states, and requires even fewer instructions to determine the index. Although it does still feel kinda magic!

</comment><comment><USER6> Bitboards also work fabulously on connect-4, encoding a 7x6 position in 7x(6+1)=49 bits [1] and allowing for a win test with 8 shifts/ands:

        // return whether newboard includes a win
        final boolean haswon(long newboard)
        {
          long y = newboard & (newboard>>HEIGHT);
          if ((y & (y >> 2*HEIGHT)) != 0) // check diagonal \
            return true;
          y = newboard & (newboard>>H1);
          if ((y & (y >> 2*H1)) != 0) // check horizontal -
            return true;
          y = newboard & (newboard>>H2); // check diagonal /
          if ((y & (y >> 2*H2)) != 0)
            return true;
          y = newboard & (newboard>>1); // check vertical |
          return (y & (y >> 2)) != 0;
        }

Dominikus Herzberg offers a more detailed explanation [2] for the benefit of his students.

[1] [http://tromp.github.io/c4/Connect4.java](http://tromp.github.io/c4/Connect4.java)

[2] [https://github.com/denkspuren/BitboardC4/blob/master/Bitboar...](https://github.com/denkspuren/BitboardC4/blob/master/BitboardDesign.md)

</comment><comment><USER7> I found a notice in wikispaces that they're closing, with as reason that "it's too expensive to bring it to modern standards"

So, they're going to _delete_ all that useful information presented on a perfect _fast loading_ and _fast scrolling_ website?!?!

<comment><USER8> I wonder how much nameserver + hosting is for them? I wish they would just leave it as-is and put up a go-fund-me for the hosting costs...

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Wikispaces, hosting this and many other invaluable wikis, is shutting down soon. It would be great if TES would open the source. There is also, it seems to me, a need for a modern alternative to MediaWiki.

<comment><USER7> What do you mean by 'modern' here? Modern seems to look worse to me: floating elements that prevent zooming in on mobile, auto playing videos, like/share buttons everywhere, ethereal (as opposed to permanent) content, things that only load as you scroll down (so it feels slower), ...

Did you mean something else by modern, if so I'm curious what :)

<comment><USER10> Don't forget the sticky bars that hide when scrolling down but suddenly reappear when scrolling up... I hate those things with a passion.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I found that this answer on stack exchange was the best resource for understanding magic bitboards and how/why they work. A really well written answer: [https://stackoverflow.com/a/30862064/1056032](https://stackoverflow.com/a/30862064/1056032)

</comment><comment><USER12> Not just bishops, also rooks (and queens).

Magic bitboards are awesome. Here's my implementation:

[https://github.com/fogleman/MisterQueen/blob/master/src/bb.c...](https://github.com/fogleman/MisterQueen/blob/master/src/bb.c#L275-L289)

</comment><comment><USER13> I remember all the time searching through here when implementing my own chess AI a few years back. Good memories. Sad to hear wikispaces is closing.</comment>


Chinese Cave Graffiti Contains 500 Years of Climate Data - <AUTHOR> http://motherboard.vice.com/read/chinese-cave-graffiti-contains-500-years-worth-of-climate-data <comment><USER2> The link to the original article is broken in the vice.com summary. The research report can be found at [http://www.nature.com/articles/srep12284](http://www.nature.com/articles/srep12284)

<comment><USER2> From the Nature article: "In summary, Dayu Cave provides for the first time an in situ comparison between historical drought events and speleothem records from the same cave." That's interesting but it is not clear how an ARMA model can be used to predict the future.</comment></comment>


The Legendary Study That Embarrassed Wine Experts Across the Globe - <AUTHOR> http://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2014/08/the_most_infamous_study_on_wine_tasting.html <comment><USER2> Going beyond food coloring, here's an interesting recent attempt to create a synthetic Chardonnay from Tartaric acid, Malic acid, Tannin powder, Vegetable glycerin, Ethanol (Everclear), Sucrose, Ethyl hexanoate (smells like pineapple), Butanoate (strong scent of grape juice), Limonene (citrus/lime), and Acetoin (rich butter smell — like popcorn at the movies): [https://medium.com/@mardonn/hacking- wine-e5ed219f3605](https://medium.com/@mardonn/hacking-wine-e5ed219f3605)</comment>


Zed vs Github... to the death - <AUTHOR> http://twitter.com/#!/zedshaw/status/74561186515009536

<comment><USER2> i'm 12 and what is this

</comment><comment><USER3> yawn</comment>


Ask HN: What are your tech predictions for 2017? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> Hordes of HN readers will continue searching for 'passive income' which basically doesn't exist.

People of HN: sell your dev skills for money and invest the money in assets that appreciate!

</comment><comment><USER3> I think VR will see mainstream success, as exposure to the technology hits a critical mass, the (mostly financial) barrier to entry falls, developers get more funding, and they get a better idea of what works and what doesn't.

</comment><comment><USER4> The Internet of Things will continue to be a tire fire.

<comment><USER3> But can I control the intensity of the fire via a proprietary smartphone app and subscription service?

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> More Artificial Intelligence startups will rise.</comment>


Ask HN: How do you deal with a dull co-founder? - <AUTHOR>

A few years ago, I started a startup with a friend of mine. This friend was not a technical guy, but he was hardworking and did all of the manual tasks that the startup needed. His role was invaluable at the time.
Fast forward a few years later, and the guy has not changed in the least. Even though he studied business, he has not learned any new business skills. He does not participate in any strategy discussions, because he has no ideas. He is unwilling to learn to do software development. He cannot manage any projects - you need to manage him to manage a task.
Basically, he just stayed the same and could not adapt to the changing needs of our startup. He's very comfortable doing manual tasks, but the tasks that need intelligence, he cannot do.
He would be a competent guy as one of the extras in the startup, but due to his founding role, hes at the top. He refuses to part with any money, so I cannot hire anyone else, and he knows that he will not get this opportunity to work in a company like this, so he does not want to sell his shares or quit.
He's extremely poor in communication - often not replying emails or misunderstanding what was asked. So right now, we hardly even talk, much less strategize. His dullness has seeped into me, and the people I manage.
What can I do? Is my only choice to leave the company? <comment><USER2> > Is my only choice to leave the company?

No, you could make him a buy-out offer that is reasonable. If that doesn't work ask him to buy you out based on the same valuation.

<comment><USER3> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_clause>

<comment><USER2> Exactly. Judging from the wording of the post the OP does not have on in his shareholder agreement or he would not be asking the question to begin with. So now, even without the clause to get the other party to accept this either way is going to be an act of delicate diplomacy.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Do you have a Board of Directors? If so, take this problem to them.

If not, pitch your co-founder on the idea of bringing in a Board-- to start with, one or two people that you both respect, and who you think could help you move the business forward.

Conflicts between founders can turn very nasty indeed, believe me. Better to address this one sooner rather than later.

</comment><comment><USER5> It sounds like you're just not growing as quickly as you would like and are taking your frustrations out on him. The things you want him to do ("strategy discussions", "project management") don't sound like things I'd delegate to someone dull or passive.

When there is the potential for conflict with someone, try to handle communications face-to-face, or over the phone at least. That might also help energize both you and him. And consider thinking of "re-energizing the company" as part of your job description too.

</comment><comment><USER6> What have you done to help him get better? My Co-Founder made me a much better business person than I was before I met him and I was able to reciprocate that favor to him as well. If you understand how he is then you should learn how to motivate him and make him better.

It seems to me he did all the grunt work in the beginning maybe he feels like he is being used.

You should talk to him and Fix it.

</comment><comment><USER7> Be honest with your cofounder about how you feel.

</comment><comment><USER8> Six Thinking Hats</comment>


What makes the most valuable tech companies so valuable? - <AUTHOR> http://www.cnet.com/8301-13555_1-9894048-34.html?tag=nefd.blgs

<comment><USER2> A lot of determining the worth of 'web 2.0' companies to be bought out (such as digg and bebo) is the the people you'd acquire along with the technology itself. Acquiring Digg you'd get web engineers who designed the backend and prepared for the influx of traffic, which one could put to use in other areas of the company.</comment>


So you want to be a video game programmer? - The Specs - <AUTHOR> http://all-things-andy-gavin.com/2011/08/28/video-game-programmer-specs/ <comment><USER3> I wish people would stop glorifying how many hours they work and how little sleep they get, "You need to live without sleep (4 hours a night every day for years baby!)." Sounds juvenile to me.

<comment><USER4> Read the last sentence before taking quotes out of context - "being a lead is all about responsibility".

If you're the lead and things start going south on your project then you'd better be prepared to start leading and taking on whatever is needed to get your game shipped.

I know it's cool to preach about working smarter instead of harder, but getting a game out of the door and into a box usually requires large doses of both.

<comment><USER5> The game industry puts this type of workload on more than just leads and managers - the rank and file toil for long hours with miserable pay (compared to the rest of the industry). There are a few exceptions to the rule - <USER2> where life resembles something like normal, and crunch time is an anomaly, not year-round.

They are few and far between though. I grew up in Vancouver where EA has its largest studio presence, and the number of burned out game devs I've met is a little scary.

Video games is like Hollywood - it's glamorous, and has the tendency to suck in some great talent, chew them up, and spit them by the curb 2-4 years down the road. And this will not change so long as there's a lineup of talented artists and developers out the door and around the block waiting for their crack at what may just be the worst working environment known to software-dom in this country.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Video games are an interesting phenomenon. They manage to pack many of the most interesting problems of computer science into one of the most superficial, yet profitable, applications. They're kind of like the warping of space time, an anomaly of extremes that manages to relentlessly suck brilliant minds away due to its siren call.

And yes, I love video games, and considered working in the field. But, stepping back you realize there are more important things to work on, and more useful ways to spend your time. That doesn't mean the temptation on both fronts (playing and creating) ever goes away.

<comment><USER7> One game. Dwarf Fortress.

It is a game totally worth consuming your life. It have too much depth and there's so much to learn. Designing your own defense system, figuring out how to satisfy and juggle the requirement of your fortress, and so on. It's mind expanding. Other than that, I like killing and skewing globins.

Someday, I'll be able to handle trapping globins and use them to automate my fortress.

<comment><USER8> Right on!

A game like dwarf-fortress is a 6+ year labour of love from its creators (and its players!), and screw anyone who says dedication like that is wasting your life.

And more broadly, a game is as artistic & life-changing as the developer is able or willing to make it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> It's worth reading this even if you're not interested in games or the industry that makes them. The game industry is one of the most mature industries in software and it offers a possible future for YOUR corner of the software world.

Besides being one of the longest running industries in software, it iterates teams and products rapidly.

Because of this it has performed a gradient decent more than any other software industry, and I would argue it is is sitting at a local minimum.

From that perspective it's very interesting to study.

<comment><USER10> Most games are trainwrecks inside. They are /just good enough to ship/ and often no better. They are fragile, fickle things that for the most part have a market lifetime much shorter than the time it took to develop the title. You get your money back -- _if_ you do -- in the first few months of sales.

Games are pragmatic and hard, cheap bastards that chew up teams and spit them out.

It's fun. :-)

<comment><USER11> I wonder if it's a different story with longer-running MMORPG's like WoW, FFXI, etc. Wouldn't the situation force the development process to be more stable and follow best practices?

<comment><USER12> I worked at Riot Games (makers of League of Legends) for a while. In some ways, it was much better: good, iterative practices, tracking technical debt, etc. In other ways, it was no different: long hours, little regard for anything but the release, etc.

Now that they've been released for a while, it would be interesting to see how things have changed.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I've worked for a couple of game studios over the years. Unfortunately, conditions were atrocious at both, something that seems to be fairly common in the industry. My hypothesis is so many coders spent their teen years playing video games, wanting to write them, that they are willing to work in sub-par conditions.

I won't work at another one, unless it's my own. Sadly, I'm not skilled enough to start my own.

<comment><AUTHOR> All the studios that consistently turn out brilliant games: Naughty Dog, Valve, Epic, Blizzard and many many others are really well run. Working there might often be brutal because of how hard the job is and pressure, but they know the process of making great games and the quality of employees is very very high.

It's less so at the big corporate studios where marketing and big company policy has heavily infiltrated the system.

<comment><USER13> It could be the personalities of the people I make contacts with (I'm a researcher who works with research-interested game-industry people), but the burnout rate seems really high, even at the well-run places. More than half the people I've met in the last 5 years have quit their jobs within that timeframe! And a lot cited the working conditions: more or less that the pressure-cooker environment was cool in their 20s, but not a long-term career path. Some have gone the indie route, some to consulting, some back to grad school, others just left the game industry entirely for a job somewhere like Lockheed.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Thumbs up for telling people they need to know some math. Even if you're not planning to work in the specialized areas that are mentioned in the article, it wouldn't hurt to be more comfortable with math than most developers are, because you may need to step in and help somebody in one of those areas, and (for me, at least), learning stuff like that on short notice is really hard.

<comment><USER10> You don't really need to know 3D math unless you're working on graphics.

It helps. But you don't /need/ it.

<comment><AUTHOR> Physics, collision, animation, and certain types of compression also use a lot of math. I also found that just plain gameplay programming in 3D games required a pretty decent command of matrix math and analytic trig.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Seems like many people here enjoy playing video games but they do not like that some very smart people chose to program them instead of "making the world a better place". Hmm.. makes me think why do you consider it like that. Its one thing to say that the gaming industry is bad because of bad working environment (a new info to me) and quite other to say that its bad to work for since it does not make the world a better place. A game is made because someone wants to play it. Why do they want to play it? Because life is a bitch and we get frustrated.(And I am fairly sure that people who are "making the world a better place" also experience that). So they try to escape the daily motions of life by shooting zombie faces or kicking someone's ass by making a avatar of them in a wrestling game. That brings us a sense of relief and allows us to fight another day or week or month (depending upon your gaming habits). So why not? My puny human brain cannot understand all this bad rap given to these poor game programmers who are maybe working in the worst environment possible (according to some comments here).

edit: Reading this again I realize that some people will argue that they are not against the therapeutic values of games but they get angry when people waste time on it. Hmm... interesting counter argument. Lets see, I can cut my hands with a kitchen knife so maybe I should throw it out right now. Dammit punyhuman you may fry your brains with this mobile crush it, right now. Punyhuman is surrounded by such things, they are all after me. Help HN people.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> I posted a part 2 -- except I actually made it a prequel -- but it's new nonetheless.

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2937426>

<comment><AUTHOR> And a part 5:

[http://all-things-andy-gavin.com/2011/09/11/video-game-progr...](http://all- things-andy-gavin.com/2011/09/11/video-game-programmer-method/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> Should be re-titled to "so you want to be a video game programmer at a large studio".

<comment><AUTHOR> Why? I'm very NOT large studio oriented. I don't think anything stated in my post (which is just part of a larger series I'm writing) is even about studio size. In this particular post I'm just broadly breaking down some of the sub- specialities inherent in the process of programming video games. In a web app you need more network and database programmers, in a video game you need graphics and sound programmers. It's just practical sense. The same guys might do these tasks, but if you like advanced 3D graphics and get a kick out of it -- get a programming job that involves graphics!

<comment><USER16> Those technical specialties are specific to certain genres of games. You don't have to learn all of them to get started and make good games. You probably do have to shoehorn yourself into one (or a few) of them if you want to work on big budget games.</comment></comment></comment>


A long time between Macs - <AUTHOR> http://blog.jedwhite.com/2009/04/long-time-between-macs.html One coder's story of why he switched back to Macs after years on PCs, Windows and Linux. <comment><USER2> How many times can the exact same stupid article be written? Congratulations, you use a Mac. This is hacker news?

<comment><USER3> Yeah, I like my Mac and all, but I wish no one would ever submit one of these stupid articles again.

<comment><USER4> if you cant say something nice...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> " Pitching on a PC sends a subtle signal of dowdiness and "unsexy"."

I know this is just this guy's opinion, but does anyone else here share it? I don't.

<comment><USER6> I do. The last of my Microsoft friends switched recently. A lot of the best .Net development now happens in VMWare, believe it or not.

Although rather than "dowdy and unsexy" I'd say the signal you're sending by pulling out a PC laptop is that you either can't evaluate good design or you don't see it as a priority.

<comment><USER7> > the signal you're sending by pulling out a PC laptop is that you either > can't evaluate good design or you don't see it as a priority.

You could also argue that by pulling out a Mac laptop, you're sending out the signal that good design is the _only_ thing you're capable of evaluating.

I agree that Macs are good-looking machines, and that OSX is aesthetically superior to Windows and Gnome/KDE, but surely that shouldn't be the main driver for choosing an OS or a machine over another?

There isn't a day that I don't wish my Linux desktop looked better, but I still use that over the Mac because I find it a better development environment, even if it doesn't give me a warm glow inside each time I look at it.

<comment><AUTHOR> I've been using Ubuntu as my main development environment as a while (mostly Eclipse with Rails/Python and still a bit of Java), but having started using a Mac for my notebook again, I have to say that as a development machine it is pretty sweet. Everything is well integrated and you spend a lot less time keeping the environment running.

Now I know with Gnome/KDE that half the appeal IS that you have real control over the environment. But as a result you spend a lot of time futzing around setting it up the way you want, and a lot of time managing just keeping things running together.

I still haven't had time to figure out all the things that broke after moving to 9.0.4 (like Google Gadgets and Flash in Firefox for a start).

Don't get me wrong cause none of that is hard and I love playing with that stuff as much as the next guy. But there is no question that you spend a lot less time worrying about those things (because you like it or not) coding on a Mac.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> If the pitch is for a great product that people want to use, does it really matter if it's on a Mac or Windows laptop? Substance is more important than style.

I use PowerPoint, but I design my decks using the principle of "austere minimalism". Each slide makes one point with the minimal amount of material. Keynote wasn't better or worse as a presentation tool when I had a Mac.

</comment><comment><USER9> First it's annoying that people call Apple computers "macs".

Second isn't this more of a case of devs picking "*nix laptop that doesn't suck" rather than choosing an apple.

<comment><AUTHOR> Especially all those guys from Apple :)

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Anyone else made the switch recently and had any problems with it?

<comment><USER10> I use a Mac at work, and I have, essentially, three problems.

The biggest problem as I run up against it all the time is the mouse tracking. I tried switching mice, Microsoft's Intellimouse software for Mac, and finally settled for a custom setting widget that lets me boost the mouse speed to 10x (!) that allowed by the default controls. This is a bit of a personal thing, but I like sensitive mice, and I dislike needing to move my arm to cross the screen. The weird acceleration curve that I am stuck with is very frustrating.

The second problem is Mac support. If I find something on the internet, it usually has a Windows version. And a Linux port. And maybe someone ported it to Mac. It's not always a problem, but it happens often enough that I don't want to reinvent the wheel to try a new program and I wish I were using another OS.

The third problem is cost- $1200 for 8GB of RAM? <http://store.apple.com/us/memorymodel/ME_IMAC_AL_20_G3> There are times when you don't need to go to Apple for hardware, but when you do, you get taken to the cleaners, and that's after spending quite a bundle on the software.

<comment><USER11> You can buy RAM for Macs from non-Apple sources for much cheaper.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I'm buying a mac very soon.</comment>


Social Construct's computer-optimized buildings could shake construction - <AUTHOR> https://techcrunch.com/2020/07/14/social-constructs-computer-optimized-buildings-could-shake-construction-industrys-foundations/ <comment><USER2> Damn. I've had this idea for a while. Design buildings with the use of AI for stylistic design, and SAT solvers for fitting everything in. USM (the Swiss furniture manufacturer) actually designed a modular building system in the 1960's which cut costs _dramatically_.

I just hope they can factory build me my midcentury modern dream home.</comment>


Why Computer Programmers Should Stop Calling Themselves Engineers (2015) - <AUTHOR> https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/11/programmers-should-not-call-themselves-engineers/414271/?single_page=true <comment><AUTHOR> Previous discussion: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10513499](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10513499) (~1 year ago, 66 commments)

<comment><USER2> And another 22 comments here: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10537138](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10537138)</comment></comment>


Do a barrel roll - Google Search - <AUTHOR> https://www.google.com/search?q=do%20a%20barrel%20roll <comment><AUTHOR> Note the bug: "do a barrel roll" skyrocketed at the top of the suggestion lists for "do a ".

So if you have Google Instant enabled, just typing "do a " will instant-search "do a barrel roll" and trigger the effect.

I'm sure this wasn't intended.

<comment><USER2> Actually, according to a recent Google blog post, this is _exactly_ what should happen for hot trending searches. They tweaked the algorithm to make hot search topics bubble up in the suggestion box and return relevant results for recent news.

<comment><AUTHOR> Of course, what I am saying is that _as a side-effect_ the easter egg is triggered even if just "do a " is entered, rather than the full key-query.

That's why it doesn't make sense as an easter egg: "do a " is a frequent prefix, people looking for something else could be annoyed by the effect.

<comment><USER3> However, autocomplete will fill out the rest of the query for the user to see, so they should get a fair idea if they are paying attention... which they should be when the contents suddenly spins.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Also: [https://www.google.com/search?pws=0&q=tilt](https://www.google.com/search?pws=0&q=tilt)

<comment><USER4> As far as Easter Eggs go, also: [https://www.google.com/search?pws=0&q=recursion](https://www.google.com/search?pws=0&q=recursion)

<comment><USER5> As far as Easter Eggs go, also: [https://www.google.com/search?pws=0&q=recursion](https://www.google.com/search?pws=0&q=recursion)

<comment><USER6> As far as Easter Eggs go, also: [https://www.google.com/search?pws=0&q=recursion](https://www.google.com/search?pws=0&q=recursion)

<comment><USER7>
      File "<stdin>", line 1, in easter_egg
      RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded

<comment><USER8> That's why you need to do a CPS transform to transform every call into a tail call, and wrap the continuation up on the heap, so you don't blow out the stack.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I just realized that such popular memes, contribute in eating away at Internet Explorer's market when they don't work on it. People who for months could not be bothered to even just upgrade to IE7 or 8, are now more than willing to download and install another browser, just to see google "do a barrel roll".

<comment><USER10> Except that those people may not realize what's going on. When I checked the page in my default browser, Opera, I saw nothing _(Doesn't work in IE 9 either)_. It wasn't until I read through the comments that I figured I should try it in Chrome.

I suppose, however, that people that hear about it will probably have people telling them that it only works in Chrome.

Once they do see it though, they may see what they are missing. I'm using WebGL on Google Maps and it's awesome. Now if they can just settle on a nice standard that works in every browser.

<comment><USER11> works in Firefox btw ;)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Nice. That's more of an aileron roll, though. A barrel roll has an accompanying corkscrew motion of your velocity vector along with the rotation.

<comment><USER13> Right, but it's a reference to the game, where Peppy says, "Do a barrel roll", but the actual maneuver that you can perform is a very fast aileron roll.

<comment><USER12> Funny, I never heard of that game. (Maybe it's because I fly flight simulators where a barrel roll actually _is_ a barrel roll... ;-P )

<comment><USER14> I'm not sure I would call Star Fox 64 a flight simulator. I would recommend that you play it though :-)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Also try "stationary" on Google. That easter egg works on all browsers.

<comment><USER16> I don't get anything?

<comment><USER17> Well, the webpage isn't moving, so...it's stationary.

<comment><USER18> Right but where are the pencils and rulers?

<comment><USER17> You have to try "stationery" for that.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Coolest barrel roll in history <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vHiYA6Dmws>

I know this isn't the original intent of the post, but this occured at a make or break time in Boeing's history and turned out to be a launching point for the company. If anything had gone wrong, Boeing would probably not exist today,

Interesting lesson in risk taking.

</comment><comment><USER20> <http://www.google.com/search?q=askew>

search for "askew" does the same thing as "tilt"

</comment><comment><USER21> _revert to pre-2009 layout_

drats it didn't work

<http://i.imgur.com/Og9Jo.png>

</comment><comment><USER22> I'm assuming this is being noticed because of the recent ANA plane aerobatics : <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aunUFwyxsF0> (spoiler : plane landed safely).

<comment><USER23> that was centrifugal, not gravitational force

<comment><USER24> Centripetal. Centrifugal force is imaginary.

<comment><USER23> Centrifugal is imaginary in a non-inertial reference frame (as the case is here), but is a "real" force otherwise.

There was a discussion on this exact subject recently on Reddit (/r/askscience) which might be interesting:

[http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/m2b1t/how_fast_c...](http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/m2b1t/how_fast_could_a_rock_planet_spin_before/c2xioo7)

and the entry on Wikipedia:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrifugal_force>

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> The attention that this is getting is absolutely ridiculous. Do we not have anything better to do? :(

</comment><comment><USER26> Also try "tilt"

<http://www.google.com/search?q=tilt>

</comment><comment><USER27> Only works in Chrome or Firefox, pretty fun :)

<comment><USER28> Works in Safari too.

<comment><USER29> and Midori

<comment><USER30> and Lynx, but with just 4 frames the animation is a bit choppy

<comment><USER31> I actually tried this to see if you were serious.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> a list of known Google Easter Eggs: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_hoaxes#Easter_eggs>

</comment><comment><USER33> Happy to find that there's still a little humor left in the corporate world :)

It's probably a good publicity/user-karma boost that this has come out at this timing, right after the recent debacles with Gmail, Google Reader, and the iOS Gmail app. Definitely leaves me feeling warm and fuzzy inside!

</comment><comment><USER34> Would be a good keyword to advertise on, startups!

<comment><USER35> Thanks for the idea! Done.

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> If you haven't seen it already, this is relevant. And hilarious: <http://www.collegehumor.com/video/5633958/star-fox-in-iraq>

</comment><comment><USER37> Not working for me; I thought it might be https everwhere or the google https search option, but turning those off didn't produce the effect. Firefox 3.6.23 on Fedora 14.

<comment><USER38> A modern browser is required. Firefox 7?

</comment></comment><comment><USER39> no such luck for "do the dougie".

</comment><comment><USER40> You can make this happen on any arbitrary page, just for fun.

<https://gist.github.com/1337458>

</comment><comment><USER41> This made me choke on my coffee.

</comment><comment><USER42> For those who aren't using a compatible browser: right after the page loads, a screenshot of your view of the page rotates 360° as if in a barrel roll. The page is then a normal, functioning Google results page.

<comment><USER43> It's not a screenshot, it's the actual page that rotates - you can click the links during the roll.

</comment></comment><comment><USER44> why is this news.

</comment><comment><USER45> [https://www.google.com/search?pws=0&q=Z+or+R+twice](https://www.google.com/search?pws=0&q=Z+or+R+twice) works as well!!!! :D:D:D

</comment><comment><USER46> And wasn't there just a post about easter eggs being a thing of the past? Thanks Google for adding a little bit of fun to your product!

</comment><comment><USER47> for those of you looking for a video:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLp7LXTSrfs>

</comment><comment><USER48> Not working for me: Firefox 3.6.23 on Ubuntu.

<comment><USER49> You need HTML5 browser like Firefox 7.

</comment></comment><comment><USER50> This technology was demo'ed by SpotCapitan.com on HN a few months ago. So is Google ripping off cutting-edge front-end engingeering from startups now?

</comment><comment><USER51> No money for labs, but this...

<comment><USER52> Labs wasn't about money. It was about moving away from half baked unmaintained releases and towards producing products that the company would be willing to support properly.

<comment><USER53> I read that as "moving away from half baked unanimated releases".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER54> Love it!

</comment><comment><USER55> I was hoping 'do a loop' did something as well.

</comment><comment> james-fend Works on my iPhone.... niccceee

</comment><comment><USER56> Thats super cool!

</comment><comment><USER57> Google's new design is completely blocked to the users of non-popular web browsers. As a user of my own fork of a webkit based browser, I only see the old Google since Google thinks that my web browser is not modern.

<comment><USER58> What are you sending in your HTTP headers?

</comment></comment><comment><USER59> Is this Google's response to Siri? :)

<comment><USER60> Yes, because easter eggs didn't exist before the iPhone 4S.

</comment></comment><comment><USER61> this one always amused me - <http://www.google.com/search?q=88mph*1.21+gigawatts>

<comment><USER62> What's the Easter Egg?

<comment><USER63> In the movie saga "Back to the future" the DeLorean time machine needs to travel at 88 mph and the flux capacitor needs 1.21 gigawatts of power in order to activate the time circuits.

<comment><USER64> There's still no Easter Egg on Google though - the search results for Back to the Future are there because they refer to those numbers.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER65> Nice, but I wonder how much money Google are losing delivering the animation code for this easteregg with every results page, on the off-chance that someone types this query. I couldn't find any sign of dynamic code loading in a cursory glance in the web inspector. Google Search's source code is otherwise ruthlessly optimised for bandwidth savings.

<comment><USER66> It's done with CSS:

body { -moz-animation-name: roll; -moz-animation-duration: 4s; -moz-animation- iteration-count: 1; -o-animation-name: roll; -o-animation-duration: 4s; -o-animation-iteration-count: 1; -webkit-animation-name: roll; -webkit- animation-duration: 4s; -webkit-animation-iteration-count: 1; }

<comment><USER67> I didn't know this existed -- CSS3? No javascript at work here? I didn't look at the web resources myself but I'm curious</comment></comment></comment>


Why legal pads are yellow - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@bytebase/why-legal-pads-are-yellow-aa034b530f5f <comment><AUTHOR> One of the most important pieces looking at this history is that yellow indicates to writers that these pads are low-pressure to write on. They're substandard and cheap.

So you can write freely.</comment>


StackOverflow Clone - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/Mayank0255/StackOverflowClone <comment><AUTHOR> Main Language: Node.js, React.js, MySQL Any additional libraries or overhead: None Single line description: Created a clone of Stack overflow on a MERN stack Progress to completion: It's completed but requires some better code distribution Detailed description: This project as the name suggests is a clone of stackoverflow but in a completely different tech stack as the original one is built in C#, Microsoft SQL Server, .NET

Kindly take a look at it and the readme.md file consists of everything including demo video and images

</comment><comment><USER2> Why not another name? With this name you will get a nastygram as soon as it becomes slightly popular.</comment>


Prefered HTML 'markdown' format  - <AUTHOR>

Textile, markdown, haml, lisp dsl, HTML, home rolled. What's the prefered syntax for writing docs? I'm writing a basic website and am spending way too much time thinking about this!
I prefer to code in python and have been meaning to try clojure. I'd like a python solution. I've  been thinking of rolling my own - I don't need to worry about nesting. I like the simple approach of http///John.freml.in which splits text to paragraphs and uses HTML for the rest. All I'd like to add would be simple headers and anchors.
Any suggestions?
Alternatively - what syntax would you like to see on HN? <comment><USER2> I usually write HTML directly. The HTML tags aren't that different from other markups - just slap a wrapper around them, and you're good.

Well structured HTML can also be easily converted to text, which will be easier to read than most markdown formats, imo.</comment>


Spotify to Apple Music Playlist - <AUTHOR> http://stamp.hern.as/

<comment><USER2> Hey, thanks for posting this. I am creator of STAMP, will be happy to answer all questions.</comment>


Science Won't Settle Trans Rights - <AUTHOR> http://bostonreview.net/science-nature-gender-sexuality/anne-fausto-sterling-science-wont-settle-trans-rights <comment><USER2> Science rarely if ever resolves political problems.

Science influences them, on occasion, by providing evidence of facts -- but no conceivable scientific result could "settle trans rights"

I mean, what scientific fact(s) could conceivably resolve the issues if proven?</comment>


South Park Scrubbed from Chinese Internet - <AUTHOR> https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/south-park-banned-chinese-internet-critical-episode-1245783 <comment><USER2> I wonder what Chinese citizens think when a popular show like South Park just completely disappears?

I usually appreciate South Park and it's very strong morals. I think we all need to boycott the NBA and Blizzard for putting money over freedom.</comment>


Design Doesn't Matter - <AUTHOR> http://blog.kadavy-inc.com/post/455871317/design-doesnt-matter

<comment><USER2> Provocative, general headline with an overly specific example. I know I'm not the only person who's tired of posts like this. There's a point to be made here--a good point. But it's completely ignored in favor of making a broad, meaningless, eye-catching statement.

Design doesn't matter _some of the time_. In this case, the aspect of the bottle design we're discussing--the label--is completely irrelevant to the functioning of the product. Its only real purpose is to sell the product. So when the product is ubiquitous enough that you instantly recognize it and want to buy it regardless, then the label design doesn't matter at all.

But when you're trying to get to the point of ubiquity--the point where everyone already knows your product and everyone seeks it out--then design usually _does_ matter. Sometimes it gets trumped by other factors or someone gets lucky. But that doesn't mean design doesn't matter.

<comment><USER3> It does say at the end of the post "Sometimes" design doesn't matter. I don't think the point of the article was to say "Design Never Matters."

My takeaway was more that sometimes a fancy facade is no substitute for a great product.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I think design and profit margins go hand-in-hand. If you have a low margin business selling something cheap in large volume then design doesn't matter so much. If you want to sell higher margin, boutique, premium goods then design matters more (hence the word "designer").

<comment><USER5> Going to take a shot in the dark and say hi, greg.

<comment><USER4> holy cow! hey Brad... it's funny who you run into on hn!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> This reminds me of times I've heard non techie people say that one reason Google got popular because "it just had a weird name." There are tons of weird named websites, but once one gets popular then people think the name sounds nice, familiar and special. Ycombinator's orange and logo seem iconic now, but its the company not the design that does it.

</comment><comment><USER6> This person mixed up design and style. This bottle is of course designed and I bet it is designed like this on purpose. But to the author's eyes, it doesn't have style. He (as I) lives in a different culture than the manufacturer, so this is probably a cultural clash.

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm not clear on how I'm confusing design and style. As I try to explain, the bottle is lacking in what are considered fundamentals of good typography and design. I would say the bottle definitely has "style." It has it's own attitude in the naivete of principles of good design.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> He's right that design sometimes doesnt matter. But most of the time it does, especially if you're trying to break in.</comment>


Gigantic, mysterious radiation leak traced to facility in Russia - <AUTHOR> https://www.newscientist.com/article/2211511-gigantic-mysterious-radiation-leak-traced-to-facility-in-russia/ <comment><USER2> Soviet Union has collapsed, Russia is supposedly a whole other country, yet nothing changed. Lessons of Chernobyl are still not heeded.</comment>


Who killed videogames? (a ghost story) - <AUTHOR> http://insertcredit.com/2011/09/22/who-killed-videogames-a-ghost-story/

<comment><USER2> Depressing. Video games have become like the fashion industry, destroyed by bike-shedding nitwits with monstrous egos whom any society with integrity and courage would recognize as circus freaks and put in their place.

If you actually give 2/3rds of a fuck about design and building something great, you pretty much have to stay out of the mainstream. You can't fight the current.

Chrono Trigger is dead. Long live Farmville!</comment>


Only three metrics matter for your online business - <AUTHOR> http://www.wingify.com/conversion-blog/only-three-metrics-matter-for-your-online-business/

<comment><USER2> I don't see anything particularly wrong in obsessing about getting more visitors to my website. Because that's where my funnel starts. If I have to obsess about conversion I'll first have to obsess about getting enough visitors that I can possibly convert. no?

Also, may I know why exactly you mentioned 50% growth and anything less to be a matter of concern?

<comment><AUTHOR> At the top of funnel you get a mix of visitors who may or may not convert. For example obsession on getting more visitors may lead you to do an extensive social media outreach which would lead to plethora of visitors but any of them would hardly convert.

Metrics like visitors and pageviews are vanity metrics for a startup and it can lead to false sense of complacency.

Yes, I agree there is nothing special about 50%. (Post was written about a year ago, forgot why I wrote that) My point is that there should be healthy growth in paid customers (not just visitors).</comment></comment>


Enough with trashing the liberal arts. Stop being stupid - <AUTHOR> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2016/03/05/enough-with-trashing-the-liberal-arts-stop-being-stupid/ <comment><USER2> Upvoting to encourage discussion.

The problem isn't that the liberal arts are completely without value--and anybody making that particular argument is a fool. The problem is that there is increasingly a huge gap between the sort of work one can get with the proper initial credentials and the work you can get without...and the people who can get, say, a development or engineering job without a STEM degree could do the same without a liberal arts degree _and they would probably be better off monetarily for forgoing one_.

If you aren't studying something that has a clear economic offramp, you are literally just giving money away to institutions who are happy to scalp you. It is pretty damned cheap to run liberal arts programs compared with good engineering programs, and there is plenty of competition for professorships regardless of field--there is probably no greater way of minting money than to fleece these students by offering those classes.

There's one part of the article that leaps out at me as really questionable:

 _" Not a single American student, however, will be indemnified from the things that make life hard by the mastery of facts on a test or a big salary. Difficulties come our way from both personal circumstances and the inevitable unfairness of an imperfect society."_

Having a lot of money _really does_ filter out a lot of stupid shit that could otherwise ruin your life or grind you into depression. Sure, there's still the everyday ennui to deal with, but if you've never consoled yourself with expensive food, booze, partying, shopping, medicine, therapy, or any of the other ways to use money to rent (if not buy) happiness, you should give it a shot sometime. It's pretty great.

One day I hope to have that kind of money to spare again. :|

</comment><comment><USER3> Of course a well rounded education comes from many sources and factors, both internal and external. But in general I feel that:

STEM training = literacy for the jobs we have now

Liberal arts training = big picture training for innovation that we have yet to do.

Remember this John Adams quote:

 _" I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce, and agriculture, in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain."_

Education has moved in this direction, but our economy has not innovated alongside it to make work for them.</comment>


Snowden to present design for a device that warns if iPhone radios transmitting - <AUTHOR> https://www.wired.com/2016/07/snowden-designs-device-warn-iphones-radio-snitches/ <comment><USER2> Comments moved to [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12136755](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12136755).

</comment><comment><USER3> What are Snowden's technical credentials? It's never been clear to me that he was more than "competent" in this area. I always assumed it was his moral compass that was unique about him, more than anything else.

What does he offer, from a technical standpoint, to this project? Not saying he wouldn't be able to; put a geek in a room with nothing to do and that geek will become an expert on something, for sure, I'm just ignorant as to what sort of geekery he's been up to.

</comment><comment><USER4> it's basically an advanced version of these key chain lights from chewing gum vending machines, that blink when your cellphone transmits something, right?</comment>


Ask HN: Where can I find diversity data in tech companies? - <AUTHOR> Hello, fellow HN readers.
Is there any publicly available dataset with diversity amongst tech companies? I'm doing a little research on the topic, and I wasn't able to find one with good and up-to-date data for more than board level employees. If there isn't any, we can try to make one.
I will update this public spreadsheet [1] with your answers. All pull requests to this spreadsheet are kindly welcome. I will try to update it as fast as possible.
If I forgot something in the worksheet or anyone is offended by it, then I'm very sorry. It wasn't the purpose of this. My goal is to just gather data around the topic.
Please, help me with the research with data from companies you work for.
[1] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OAe2-aGLUw78ABZGs3ZvyMlHZkH5oPekgF1fQ_EQojI/edit?usp=sharing <comment><USER2> Google has a lot of this information publicly available and broken down in further categories than the ones you mention; worth taking a look at

[https://www.google.com/diversity/](https://www.google.com/diversity/)

Apple as well:

[https://www.apple.com/diversity/](https://www.apple.com/diversity/)

Microsoft:

[https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/diversity](https://www.microsoft.com/en- us/diversity)

The numbers in a lot of these situations are only, unfortunately, at a level that we can't really get a lot more than raw count from. This tells us nothing about the pay gap problem and in general causal effects for exodus. If there is substantial evidence that pay is widely different between groups for the same exact job role (and there is a great deal of evidence that is the case); then it would be far better to have that data on hand.

Glassdoor appears to have some good metrics on this and I came across this article that at least describes these discrepancies across a few high profile companies.

[https://www.geekwire.com/2014/stats-gender-pay-gap- microsoft...](https://www.geekwire.com/2014/stats-gender-pay-gap-microsoft- google-facebook-tech-companies/)

It is notable that Microsoft appears to be far better than everyone else at ensuring equal pay between genders.

Also you can take a look at Glassdoor's overall research on the gender pay gap data:

[https://research- content.glassdoor.com/app/uploads/sites/2/2...](https://research- content.glassdoor.com/app/uploads/sites/2/2016/03/Glassdoor-Gender-Pay-Gap- Study.pdf)

This seems about right here:

"The single biggest cause of the gender pay gap is occupation and industry sorting of men and women into jobs that pay differently throughout the economy. In the U.S., occupation and industry sorting explains 54 percent of the overall pay gap—by far the largest factor. For example, Census figures show women make up only 26 percent of highly paid chief executives but 71 percent of low-paid cashiers. Past research suggests this is due partly to social pressures that divert men and women into different college majors and career tracks, or to other gender norms such as women bearing disproportionate responsibility for child and elderly care, which pressures women into more flexible jobs with lower pay."

Indeed, just from the above study, it's easy to conclude that the numbers alone are more reflective of the state of public policy issues and a lack of salary transparency across firms.

<comment><USER3> Enough with this diversity crap</comment></comment>


Ask HN: Blindsided by massive counter offer - <AUTHOR> Recently I was offered a great job at a major tech company out west (I live on East Coast). I officially put my notice in two weeks ago, and my manager understood the opportunity, but also asked if I would listen to offers to get me to stay. I told them it was probably pointless, because the offer out west was for so much money and included sign on, stock, etc. I also communicated I would need a severance guarantee out of concerns they would just look to replace me if I stayed. Today they came back with a massive counter offer, mostly better than the west coast job, plus the severance, plus a better title/responsibility. I'm completely blindsided.
I like my current job. It's not like I was actively interviewing, the new company recruited me. I've already accepted the new job so I would hate the burn that bridge but at the same time I'm not really sure what to do about this massive counter offer, as I was completely caught off guard.
Has anyone been in a similar position before (getting a huge counter offer from a job you like)? How did you approach it? What did you end up doing? How was the result? <comment><USER2> In circumstances like what you're describing, where both job choices seem reasonable, the single biggest consideration is lifestyle.

Questions that fall under lifestyle: Where do you want to live? (culture, weather, cost of living etc) How does either decision impact your family? What kind of hours / time demands does each job require? (and how that relates to quality of life, family, etc)

</comment><comment><USER3> Ask for more! They've been paying you as little as they could get away with, and they're now realizing they underestimated. Ask them to significantly beat the other offer to make up for the past underpaid years. If they're only willing to match it, they're still paying you as little as they have to. Take your allegiance elsewhere.

<comment><USER4> In fairness, the West coast company is probably _also_ paying "as little as the have to" as well.

</comment></comment><comment> no-s having a guaranteed severance means you have an employment contract and this may mean you are no longer working "at will". If you are seriously considering accepting the counter you should quickly make sure the offer is real and beyond clawback. Consult an attorney who can advise you on employment contracts and and labor law and such.

</comment><comment><USER5> Its your choice now. Folks, especially on the West Coast, understand you have choices, and I don't imagine any bridges would be burned.

For my part, the new opportunity would be more attractive because I enjoy change.</comment>


London's Lonely Unicorn: Two Frugal Expats and Their Billion-Dollar Startup - <AUTHOR> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-13/london-s-lonely-unicorn-two-frugal-expats-and-their-billion-dollar-startup <comment><USER2> I just visited the TransferWise site from here in Germany after reading the article. Was disappointed, like I often am these days. I was promptly redirected to the /de/ area of the site with no obvious way to switch to English.

Why don't websites realise that language and country are two different things! Not everyone living in Germany is fluent in German, especially not expats who I assume are the main target users for sites such as these.

I have seen only a handful of sites that will allow you to navigate to a English language site if they have one while also acknowledging that you are in Germany.

<comment><USER3> FWIW the site has a language switcher right next to the logo. It's not most most obvious one as it just says "Deutsch" which is the German word for "German". It also didn't respect my browser's language setting.

Most if not all multilingual websites have such a language chooser but sometimes it's well hidden.

<comment><USER2> Thanks. Yes, I just checked it out again and realised that the language option is missing on their mobile site, which is what I visited earlier in the day. I've installed the app though and it looks interesting. I will definitely give this a try.</comment></comment></comment>


Good Bye Import.io – Hello Dexi.io - <AUTHOR> https://www.dexi.io/ <comment><USER2> I've used this tool (neé CloudScrape) for five scrape, collect and dump work from directory type sites.

Works well and fast, multiple proxy routes.

It easily grabs text and attributes with CSS3 selectors. Have to be a "dev" to build a bot in this thing.

Some of the URL filtering is not that easy.

It takes multiple test runs to get it right but they are cheap.

Can't interact with active content very well (eg: forms, AJAX)</comment>


Email startup acquisitions - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@omar_w_qureshi/email-start-up-acquisitions-9302d55aa7da

<comment><USER2> Notable omission:

ExactTarget - Salesforce (2.5B)

<comment><AUTHOR> Great catch. Will update now</comment></comment>


Don't Pay Your VC "Closing" Fees - <AUTHOR> http://babblingvc.typepad.com/pjozefak/2009/10/dont-pay-your-vc-closing-fees.html <comment><USER2> "Paying for the privilige to be funded" sounded to me a bit like the "own your own business" scams which Brian Dunning describes on his Skeptoid podcast/blog. see <http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4095></comment>


Django Hidden Hires - <AUTHOR> http://django.hiddenhires.com/ <comment><USER2> What if you're a "pretty good" developer, or a "great" developer? Why is there only ever a market for "awesome" developers?

<comment><USER3> What, didn't you know that's how developers are made these days? That's how they come, standard issue: awesome rockstars. With 5 years of experience.

That's the impression I get from most job postings, anyway.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Design is pretty, but in Firefox 3 for some reason the text is nigh unreadable.

<comment><USER5> Light typeface, low contrast colors and non-perfect text rendering. Welcome to the custom font age.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> I was reading the bit about how they pre-screen candidates, and was wondering if they actually know that much about Django themselves.

Then I saw saw their team page:

[quote] Our team is: Jacob Kaplan-Moss, a core Django developer and partner at Revolution Systems. Eric Holscher, the testing master and lead developer at the Lawrence Journal-World, where Django originated. [/quote]

</comment><comment><USER7> This is new. Is it me, or does Django seem to be picking up steam (vs Rails et al)? Don't remember seeing calls for Django developers before.

<comment><USER8> It looks like it's mostly just that the job market is getting better overall; there are more jobs across the board. For example, about 9 months ago I looked up the number of jobs for PHP, Rails and Django on various job sites <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=805931> Here are the old and current numbers compared:

SimplyHired - PHP: 10726 to 15993, Rails: 2553 to 3823, Django: 328 to 926

Startuply - PHP: 280 to 488, Rails: 121 to 230, Django: 35 to 66

StartUpHire - PHP: 458 to 549, Rails: 119 to 152, Django: 9 to 25

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Interesting, but I'm a bit shy about hiring people through channels like this, worried that they really have only worked with Django or only _want_ to work with Django.

<comment><USER10> Part of the point is that we pre-screen developers (and employers) to ensure that people are high quality -- and that they have actually used Django before. We are requiring open source code to be shown (or having a good reason for not having any). Along with doing basic interview-style questions to prove that you actually understand Django on a non-trivial level.

<comment><USER9> I guess my biggest fear would be to find a "fanboy". Is there some kind of screening process for that?

I love django just as much as the next guy but no technology is the end all.

<comment><USER11> There will be a screening process, yes, and diversity of experience will be one of the factors we take into account. Nobody wants to hire or work with a one-trick pony.

<comment><USER12> > Nobody wants to hire or work with a one-trick pony.

Your deviousness is subtle, great master.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Really? Ultra thin font with light gray coloring on a gray background?

</comment><comment><USER14> I feel that the market right now for Django is still too small for something like this to really work. Even the open Django job boards like <http://www.djangogigs.com> are pretty barren. How are you going to convince employers to fork over money without proof that there are lots of talented Django developers behind the walls of your site? And how are you going to convince developers to go through the trouble of opening up their code and submitting to tests without proof that it might get them access to lots of top-notch employers?

<comment><USER11> These are all great questions — indeed, they're ones I've asked myself. Only time will tell, I suppose.

However, the impetus behind Hidden Hires is a cry real need: although Django's community is growing at a rapid clip, it's still a niche enough technology that employment is tricky. I regularly hear from developers who are having trouble finding jobs that match their skills, and I'm simultaneously hearing from companies who can't fill open positions. It's clear to me that the existing employment markets — job boards, recruiters, etc. — aren't serving our community very well.

We're hoping to fix that problem eith Hidden Hires. We'll see how it works out.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Hiring for Django or hiring for Python? For a Python coder, a _Django job_ sounds a bit drab. And a _Django developer_ sounds like someone way less technical than someone who has a lot of experience writing Python code.

What's the real difference between _Django developer_ and _Python developer_?

<comment><USER16> I'm a generalist that found work as a 'Django developer', and I actually ended up enjoying it, despite Django's flaws (minimal compared to what other frameworks are out there).

I do in fact spend most of my programming time on Python, and I enjoy using my faculties to write better/faster/smaller code.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> brighter please

<comment><USER18> What part of "hidden" don't you understand? :)</comment></comment>


XKCD: Meeting - <AUTHOR> http://companyname.website <comment><USER2> I'm curious as to why/how this post thinks the URL is (companyname.website)? It's obviously from the comic, but I'm curious about the mechanics.

edit: derp. the url points directly at companyname.website and my Chrome build has a bug that prevented me from seeing that.

<comment><AUTHOR> As an XKCD comic, I thought this one was just ok, but what made me post it to HN was when I went to check the availability of companyname.website and found out it redirected to the comic :)

<comment><USER3> I did the same thing this morning with the intention of recreating the web page from the first panel of the comic, but someone beat me to it to make this redirection (which have to admit I find less cool than my (and I guess many others) idea).

<comment><USER4> Someone? Didn't Randall do it? I believe that it's part of the joke.

<comment><USER3> Maybe I don't know, the whois info are hidden.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I don't understand the joke.

<comment><USER6> Explain XKCD usually does a pretty good job at explaining what's going on: [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1493](http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1493)

(bla, bla, obligatory notice about explaining jokes and dissecting frogs here)

<comment><USER7> It explains jokes on all panels of the episode, but I cannot find a joke connecting panels together.

<comment><USER8> So, XKCD is not actually all that _funny_ in itself. Trying to "find a joke connecting panels together" is the wrong way to digest XKCD.

The joke in this case is the same as most of the Beret Guy jokes: He has some sort of alien view of the world which has mired him in a 9-year-old's mentality, so that when we see him appear we are seeing an overly literal concept of what the adult world is about. The humor is not "ha-ha" funny so much as a mind-state of vague bemusement.

This may be the reason XKCD has been so successful. By offering a comedic "buildup" which is insufficient to generate a "release" of hysterical laughter and all of the neurotransmittery goodness that comes with that, you are left trawling the archives for more and more humor.

<comment><USER9> > _This may be the reason XKCD has been so successful. By offering a comedic > "buildup" which is insufficient to generate a "release" of hysterical > laughter and all of the neurotransmittery goodness that comes with that, you > are left trawling the archives for more and more humor._

I dunno about that. One of the things I appreciate most about xkcd is its whimsy. Seeing things from a different point of view, or having a bit of absurdity pointed out, is fun.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Is this Scott Adams' way of telling us that he has taken over XKCD?

</comment><comment><USER11> Randall's been sitting on this since 20 Nov 2014?

<comment><USER12> I imagine he has a large amount of comics in reserve so he can work on comics such as [http://xkcd.com/1491/](http://xkcd.com/1491/).

<comment><USER13> Actually. he rarely has comics in reserve. He has a notebook of ideas and sketches, and each day a few hours before a comic is set to go up, he picks one and draws and inks it. I've watched the process firsthand, and I was surprised as to how little lead time there is.

When he knows he'll be busy he gets a few in the hopper, but it isn't his standard SOP (at least it didn't used to be).

<comment><USER14> Do you know him?

<comment><USER13> We've met a few times, but I learned this when I was escorting him around the Bay Area for a day during his book tour.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


The revival of Full disclosure from P2P - <AUTHOR>

The Full disclosure BitMessage Channel - > Name:"Full Disclosure" / Address: "BM-2cUJLnjw3CdmKv3x9cgCLHY54sTAwFjbmZ" <comment><AUTHOR> Now, we just need a service to archive messages, like BitText.</comment>


Ask HN: Freelancing in the Bay Area - <AUTHOR>

I'm interested in doing freelance web development work in the SF/Berkeley bay area, and was hoping some of you could share your experiences and advice.
I fully expect it to be more work than a full-time position in a tech company, and that I will have to delve more into the business side of things.
However, my concerns are about the types of freelance opportunities in the area, and if most are wordpress type jobs. Is front-end javascript and iOS development relegated to full-time positions?
I have a CS background and worked full-time for some time, but quit to work on my own projects instead. I've found some part time work improving a Meteor app, and am liking working this way much more. I'd like to take it to the next step, where I can work mostly on client projects and work on my own projects as well.
I'd appreciate any insights and advice. Thank you. <comment><USER2> I freelanced in the Bay Area for ~1.5 years, mostly Rails/Backbone. I wasn't good because I was never more than a coder-for-hire -- but the pay was still more than enough.

(1) Yes, companies in SF/Berkeley are looking for freelance JavaScript/iOS developers. Especially if you've worked with Backbone/Angular/Ember/Node/whatever popular framework used today. You'll never have to take on Wordpress type jobs if you don't want to.

(2) My personal experience is companies prefer full-time contracts over part- time contracts. They want 40 hours/week freelancers but if they can't find them, will settle for whatever you can provide.

(3) If you can't tap into your own network to find these contracts, subcontract through a recruiter or agency. Being able to work on-site is a HUGE bonus, you'll get a contract in no time (although they'll take a cut of your pay)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks, that's incredibly helpful and motivating. I'm going to proceed with this plan.</comment></comment>


Chinese QQ Browser Caught Sending User Data to Its Servers - <AUTHOR> https://citizenlab.org/2016/03/researchers-identify-major-security-and-privacy-issues-in-popular-china-browser-application-qq/ <comment><USER2> _The Android version of the browser transmits personally identifiable data, including a user's search terms, the URLs of visited websites, nearby WiFi access points, and the user's IMSI and IMEI identifiers, without encryption or with easily decrypted encryption_

Well call me a skeptic but save the final clause isn't this _exactly_ what Google collects?

Because GPS is often too slow or cannot get a fix, location services are usually based on using every single Android device to approximately geolocate Wifi APs ... then send the data to Google, who tells your phone where it is when it reports in the local APs.</comment>


Would You Pay $32,709 for a Lab-Grown Diamond? - <AUTHOR> https://www.wsj.com/articles/would-you-pay-32-709-for-a-lab-grown-diamond-11551464478 <comment><USER2> Lab grown diamond... brand new Tesla... lab grown diamond... brand new Tesla...

I'd go with the car, personally.

<comment><USER3> Well the Tesla will definitely get you a lot more utility. In fact any car is probably a better purchase than any diamond. Probably depreciates less quickly too...

<comment><USER4> I'm not sure that's true. Teslas still depreciate at a rapid clip. Many cars will depreciate at 40% once you drive 50k miles on them. Tesla may get a break on that because of their brand, but as long as Tesla keeps punching out cars, they will depreciate.

The issue with diamonds is that once they're cut and given to someone else as part of a ring, they immediately depreciate. Because, as the diamond marketing agencies point out: "Who wants a second hand engagement ring?"

That said, raw diamonds (cut or uncut) hold their value. While DeBeer's has a stockpile of diamonds, they only let a fraction of their holdings out into the market every year to keep the prices artificially high. Which get turned into rings, which then depreciate immediately.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> In my opinion, there's a significant marketing opportunity for lab grown diamonds - a not for profit that makes beautiful artificial pieces that cost just as much as one that's mined, and with the cost difference pays for a significant amount of charity.

Rather than a shameful knockoff, it should aim to draw attention to the fact that it is what it is.

While not universal, I think a $5k artificial ring that looks great and also comes with a story of saving a life on Watsi or building a well in a village would be a compelling product to a substantial number of people.

</comment><comment><USER6> Of course not. I'd rather it be used for some useful scientific purpose rather than a gaudy jewel. Young couples have way better things to save their money for, like a down payment on a house, or child care, or a college fund. My wife and I got matching tungsten carbide rings that look way cooler than any diamond, and we spent less than $600 on the pair.

</comment><comment><USER3> The diamond I purchased for my wife's engagement ring costed about the headline price, and it wasn't lab-grown. If the lab-grown diamond was significantly better in specification for the same price, I'd probably have no issue buying it. If no one can tell without specialized equipment and your spouse doesn't care, why not?

But if there wasn't a significant improvement in the diamond across several dimensions, I'd stick with the "real" one. When I purchased one I used diamond screener[1] to find as efficient a price as possible for what I was willing to spend. My research at that time showed that there wasn't a significant price improvement in lab-grown diamonds compared "real" diamonds at the most efficient prices for similar quality. But maybe that's changed now.

In any case, I think it would be great if the price of diamonds came down overall. Lab-grown diamonds are hopefully a good step in that direction. Though I'm concerned they'll evolve to be just as expensive, but marketed to a different set of values.

EDIT: Am I being offtopic? Why am I being downvoted?

__________________

1\. No affiliation, but I highly recommend.

<comment><USER7> you need to catch up on lab-grown stones. Basically, they look better, keep their shine longer (i.e. no need to polish that often) and cost 10% of the "real one".

Just realize that intrinsic cost of diamonds is basically 0. Supply is artifically limited by De Beers and Co, demand is pushed up by shiny catalogues and stereotypes etc.

Now that many more labs are going to create moissanites and likes due to expiring patents, diamonds are going down the same path as pearls went ages ago (when people started growing them on mass scale).

So, my prediction is diamonds will lose at least 90% value in coming years, and lab-grown stones take over by storm, pushing overall bling-bling value even further down, making it as common as zirconia or stuff like that.

p.s. 2 of my first engagement rings were real diamonds, north of $5k value each. The most recent one is a custom made moissanite of better clarity and bigger size at < $1k. All girls were happy with their rings ;)

<comment><USER3> When you say they cost 10% of the real one, do you mean 10% at the same metrics? That wasn't the case when I looked; do you have some reading material on this?

When I looked, I found the best I could get for the same specification was about 70% of the price. Also, I'm glad you've been successful with your ring purchases but I don't think how much you spend will have anything to do with how happy the recipient is. At least for me it's more of a point of pride.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I wouldn't buy any diamond.

</comment><comment><USER9> It is very important and dear to me that any diamond I buy caused sufficient pain, death and bloodshed.

</comment><comment><USER10> If you _really_ want the silliness of the traditional* diamond engagement ring, just remember those three magic words: created white sapphire.

* Created by DeBeers marketers

</comment><comment><USER11> I wouldn't pay $32 for a lab-grown diamond... or any diamond

</comment><comment><USER12> Don't see any reason whatsoever to pay more than a fiver for a shiny rock. As in $5, not 5K.

<comment><USER13> You'll pay more than that for semiprecious gems. Heck I don't think I could get more than a chip of amethyst for $5 as a kid.

<comment><USER12> No _I_ won't. I don't need shiny rocks. :-)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I stopped reading at `"conscious shopping" has become almost unbearably trendy`

</comment><comment><USER15> I have been seeing these links for CVD diamond for almost 10 years now, and yet I still can't buy a CVD diamond in any store.

I wonder why that is?

<comment><USER13> My history is probably a little off, but the first time I heard of lab grown diamonds in the press was right around the time a couple people were testing a theory that they could identify diamond bearing rock from aerial surveys.

They bought a chunk of land in Canada and turned it into a big ol' diamond mine. Another source of conflict free diamonds (other than the poor bastards who sold their mineral rights) and at a comparable price.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> Like many I always thought I wouldn't buy a diamond, I saw no reason to buy what was basically just a rock (to me), but when I proposed to my girlfriend, since the ring didn't have a diamond, she said no.

<comment><USER17> Damn seriously? I know you're not looking for unsolicited relationship advice, but that's a bit of a red flag...

<comment><USER6> I'd say buying that non-diamond engagement ring was an even better investment than my dude realized.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> We should stop posting links to article posts that block and require payment. I have no idea why no one else has mentioned this.

<comment><USER19> > _" I have no idea why no one else has mentioned this."_

It certainly has been mentioned before. It's a FAQ:

> _" Are paywalls ok?"_

> _" It's ok to post stories from sites with paywalls that have workarounds."_

> _" In comments, it's ok to ask how to read an article and to help other > users do so. But please don't post complaints about paywalls. Those are off > topic."_

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html)

<comment><USER18> Im away from a desktop, but on mobile WSJ has no workaround, as far as I know. I signed in with Google and still had to register a payed subscription.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Just got our wedding rings in the mail: matching meteorite, dinosaur femur, and titanium rings. $600 for the pair. So god no, I wouldn't pay that much. I could have a pretty dope hobbiest genetic engineering lab for that money.</comment>


Ford's Latest Tech Helps Police Vehicles Neutralize Covid-19 - <AUTHOR> https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2020/05/27/ford-heated-sanitization-software-police-vehicles-coronavirus.html <comment><AUTHOR> How it works

The solution is simple: Bake the vehicle's interior until viruses inside are inactivated. Using Police Interceptor Utility's own powertrain and climate control systems, this software solution enables vehicles to elevate passenger compartment temperatures beyond 133 degrees Fahrenheit, hotter than Death Valley on its hottest day, for 15 minutes – long enough to help disinfect vehicle touchpoints.</comment>


Now TSA wants to test passengers' beverages at the gate? - <AUTHOR> http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2012/07/05/now-tsa-wants-to-test-passengers-beverages-at-the-gate/

<comment><USER2> Follow-up from more thorough journalists:

[http://minnesota.publicradio.org/collections/special/columns...](http://minnesota.publicradio.org/collections/special/columns/news_cut/archive/2012/07/testing_of_drinks_at_airport_g.shtml)

<comment><AUTHOR> Definitely appears to be better coverage of the issue. ++ for you.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Next up: Sperm count.

In all honesty, this is ridiculous. Not as if the full body scan/patting down is bad enough or anything.

</comment><comment><USER4> Terrorists would just put a bag in their bladder and use a syringe to fill it up with whatever explosive fuel they needed anyway. I don't think the TSA would detect it at all unless it failed the sniffer test due to bad container.

</comment><comment><USER5> Will you be allowed to bring a Pepsi through security in Atlanta?

</comment><comment><USER6> We need to end the TSA

</comment><comment><USER7> one step closer to a DNA swab

</comment><comment><USER8> TSA = place where retards can easily find a front-line job</comment>


How Critics Reviewed The Mac 2.0 In 1984 - <AUTHOR> http://brainstormtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2009/01/12/jan-1984-how-critics-reviewed-the-mac/

<comment><USER2> Good ol' John C. Dvorak:

San Francisco Examiner, John C. Dvorak, 19 Feb. 1984

The nature of the personal computer is simply not fully understood by companies like Apple (or anyone else for that matter). Apple makes the arrogant assumption of thinking that it knows what you want and need. It, unfortunately, leaves the "why" out of the equation — as in "why would I want this?" The Macintosh uses an experimental pointing device called a 'mouse'. There is no evidence that people want to use these things. I dont want one of these new fangled devices.

<comment><USER3> I was just about to mock that quote. But to be honest those who use vi still think the mouse is inferior to keyboard.

<comment><USER4> The mouse is inferior to the keyboard if you are doing nothing but editing text. But for nearly anything else, the mouse is better.

<comment><USER5> Depends on what you mean by every thing else. For playing Quake you need a mouse and something like a keyboard. For Super Mario, I prefer a joy pad. For interacting with a windowmanager, XMonad shows that a keyboard interface can be quite productive. A CAD program will benefit from a mouse.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> "If your first version is so impressive that trolls don't make fun of it, you waited too long to launch." -- pg

They seem to have gotten it about right. The 128k Mac was a way to start a conversation with customers and developers.

</comment><comment><USER7> What does "Mac 2.0" in the title mean? AFAICT, the quotes in the article are about the very first 128k Macintosh.

<comment><USER8> Submitter made an error, mashing together the original title, "Jan. 1984: How critics reviewed the Mac", with the name of the blog/column, "Apple 2.0".

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Was the Mac popular among tech entrepreneurs before OS X?

<comment><USER6> Yes. I liked Macs starting in 1988 or so. I fell out of love sometime around system 8, and spent many happy years with Unix variants. But OSX brought me back.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Also previously posted as <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=910960></comment>