Some Notes for License Submitters - <AUTHOR> http://lists.opensource.org/pipermail/license-review_lists.opensource.org/2018-June/003418.html <comment><AUTHOR> Since there appears to be interest (hurrah!), some highlights from the thread:

Perens: "There are already too many Open Source licenses. If we never accepted another, that would not be a particularly bad thing."

[http://lists.opensource.org/pipermail/license- review_lists.o...](http://lists.opensource.org/pipermail/license- review_lists.opensource.org/2018-June/003371.html)

Mitchell: "Plain English legal drafting is making inspiring headway, as a craft. Open source licensing shouldn't cut itself out of the benefits."

[http://lists.opensource.org/pipermail/license- review_lists.o...](http://lists.opensource.org/pipermail/license- review_lists.opensource.org/2018-June/003372.html)

Tzeng: "It strikes me that there's no real reason for the rest of us to bother being here if the "old hands" decide what to do regardless of the consensus of the list. Evidently any license submission can be delayed indefinitely."

[http://lists.opensource.org/pipermail/license- review_lists.o...](http://lists.opensource.org/pipermail/license- review_lists.opensource.org/2018-June/003375.html)

Randall: "But, one thing open source and free software have demonstrated is that chaotic, rowdy groups of humans can accomplish amazing things together, even despite (and sometimes because of) all their imperfections. Please be patient with us, but persistent. I promise you will get an answer."

[http://lists.opensource.org/pipermail/license- review_lists.o...](http://lists.opensource.org/pipermail/license- review_lists.opensource.org/2018-June/003410.html)

Perens: "There aren't that many actually useful variations on the licenses that actually pass the OSD. There are actually only three useful licenses, a gift-style, a sharing-with-rules-style, and something in between. Given Affero and GPL3 terms on those three, essentially all purposes for Open Source can be carried out. All else is embellishment."

[http://lists.opensource.org/pipermail/license- review_lists.o...](http://lists.opensource.org/pipermail/license- review_lists.opensource.org/2018-June/003413.html)

Villa: "I'm pretty sure that, contra Bruce, it isn't OSI's position that open source needs to stay forever trapped in amber, but a reasonable outside observer (like Kyle!) could certainly conclude otherwise."

[http://lists.opensource.org/pipermail/license- review_lists.o...](http://lists.opensource.org/pipermail/license- review_lists.opensource.org/2018-June/003418.html)

Fontana: "I'm generally struck by how conservative, technically and perhaps legally clueless and hidebound contemporary proprietary software license agreements tend to be - though not in the same way as open source licenses, which are vulnerable to similar criticisms."

[http://lists.opensource.org/pipermail/license- review_lists.o...](http://lists.opensource.org/pipermail/license- review_lists.opensource.org/2018-June/003419.html)

Perens (quoting): " > A bolder new license might consider: What does an economically viable open source look like?

My usual answer for this is that if you have to ask how you're going to make money, you're the wrong person to make Open Source. Nowhere in the mission of OSI is any mandate to provide authors with a viable business method."

[http://lists.opensource.org/pipermail/license- review_lists.o...](http://lists.opensource.org/pipermail/license- review_lists.opensource.org/2018-June/003423.html)

Mitchell: "Hacker-types still favor MIT/BSD over Apache 2.0. Facebook followed suit after the PATENTS tragicomedy. If you don't trust FSF---or OSI for that matter---and you don't have a legal department large enough for an open licensing wonk, you want a license you can read. You want a purpose-built tool that directly expresses your purpose, and little more."

[http://lists.opensource.org/pipermail/license- review_lists.o...](http://lists.opensource.org/pipermail/license- review_lists.opensource.org/2018-June/003425.html)

Perens: "We are asking of you only one thing. Go forth and use your license. We are not stopping you. Just don't call it Open Source."

[http://lists.opensource.org/pipermail/license- review_lists.o...](http://lists.opensource.org/pipermail/license- review_lists.opensource.org/2018-June/003426.html)

<comment><USER2> > My usual answer for this is that if you have to ask how you're going to make > money, you're the wrong person to make Open Source. Nowhere in the mission > of OSI is any mandate to provide authors with a viable business method.

Indeed, it is a principle of open source that people can freeload off your work. As soon as an author restricts their work to non-commercial use or commercial-with-a-fee (which is entirely reasonable), it is no longer considered "open source".

> We are asking of you only one thing. Go forth and use your license. We are > not stopping you. Just don't call it Open Source.

Go ahead, call it open source. The OSI has no trademark over the term, and the idea that their narrow definition is the only "official" one is a load of crap. There is plenty of room for what constitutes open source that doesn't fall underneath their umbrella.

Edit: I understand this opinion is controversial. If you disagree, please comment and explain why.

<comment><USER3> > Indeed, it is a principle of open source that people can freeload off your > work. As soon as an author restricts their work to non-commercial use or > commercial-with-a-fee (which is entirely reasonable), it is no longer > considered "open source".

I'd challenge that. Under copyleft and other "share-alike" or "reciprocal" licenses, loading isn't free for everyone, in particular those who create software. There's a cost in sharing source and rights for new code.

I think the community as a whole has forgotten that, because copyleft licenses have fallen behind the times. With a glaring, unpatched vulnerability like the ASP loophole affecting most copyleft code, the terms of the licenses no longer implement the deal their authors wanted to make. Which is why I proposed the license in the second quote you pulled.

<comment><USER2> That's a good point. For copyleft licenses, reciprocation does not occur through payment, but by users open-sourcing their code. In that case it's fair not to expect reimbursement.

I read your license, and I like the idea. It does seem a bit complicated, but I guess that's inherent in having to wade through payments and private licenses and such. I'm curious, was the LR-0 approved by the OSI? I can't find it on their website.

<comment><USER3> Reciprocation _can_ occur via payment! That business model is called "selling exceptions" in FSF-speak and "dual licensing" by most everyone else. MySQL pioneered it, decades ago. Basically: "If you can't meet the conditions in LICENSE, buy a different license from us." That's exactly the model licensezero.com tries to make available to independent developers, as a service.

And thank you for reading the license! I've probably poured more time into that document than any other in my career. You're right: there is some inherent complexity in what it attempts to do, compared to permissive open source licenses like MIT or Apache.

Since submitting the license to OSI for approval, the discussion has repeatedly gone off the rails, consuming months of time and thousands upon thousands of words on the mailing list. The silver lining: accepting that OSI approval won't be forthcoming, soon or at all, and that it isn't worth what I thought it was, frees me up to focus even more sharply on clarity and simplicity. If you're interested, I'd love your feedback on this post-OSI "fork":

[https://github.com/licensezero/parity-public- license/blob/ma...](https://github.com/licensezero/parity-public- license/blob/master/LICENSE.mustache)

I've already had some great feedback from others. A few let me thank them publicly in the repo.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Programmers should be paid for their work on OSS projects.

<comment><USER5> Programmers should be paid if they are asked to implement someone else's requirements.

There need be no structure for paying programmers who invent their own requirements and thereby just implement whatever they want.

The mass market proprietary software model is indeed based on the process of inventing and implementing requirements and then convincing paying users to value and adopt those requirements and then pay for a copy of the implementation.

That doesn't work for free software, because it is given away; those who like the requirements and their implementation just help themselves to a copy.

The way to get paid, then, is either via donations/crowdfunding, or else to be employed working on customizing open source stuff to specific requirements.

That latter kind of work cannot be the only OSS there is. Someone first has to develop the stuff that is then adopted, and a business forms around it. Those somebodies usually just put in the uncompensated time.

<comment><USER3> I think you're absolutely right, if and only if we set "open source" equal to "permissive open source" under licenses like MIT, BSD, and Apache 2.

But I don't think your view holds if we include share-alike licenses like GPL and AGPL in "open source". Many would-be-users' business models, especially closed, proprietary software development, inherently conflict with sharing alike. Offering software, for free, under terms that require sharing alike therefore preserves a business model: sell alternative licenses, or exceptions to your open source license's share-alike requirements.

That business model directly motivated my work on the License Zero Reciprocal, a license I submitted to OSI. That led eventually to the thread linked by this post.

If you're interested in other thoughts along these lines, I've collected mine on a blog: [https://blog.licensezero.com/](https://blog.licensezero.com/)

<comment><USER5> The view basically holds for any software that large numbers of users can use without paying a cent: everything from binary-only "shareware" to "freemium" apps, to open-source-but-not-free things like the Pine e-mail client, to BSD to GPL.

If you give away copies, there is no "business model" other than some sort of custom work, or some non-free versions whose copies you do sell or whatever.

<comment><USER3> I think you're right again, but only with another limitation: concerning applications, not libraries, frameworks, or development tools.

The latter function as components or unfinished goods, not independently usable software. The right to "use" such incomplete programs or software- production tools is meaningless to end-users. It becomes meaningful to them only when parts and tools are incorporated into, or used to build, other software. Software that often _isn 't_ open source, by anyone's definition.

If the finished good is proprietary software that the creator will distribute to users, GPL is a blocker. Distributing copies of the final product will trigger GPL's copyleft conditions. If the finished good is software that its creator will run _for_ others, as software as a service, AGPL and other network-copyleft licenses are blockers. Providing the service to users over a network will trigger requirements to provide source.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Colorizing Stderr: racing pipes, and libc monkey-patching - <AUTHOR> https://repl.it/site/blog/stderr?hn=1 <comment><USER2> I came across stderred a few months ago while looking to do the same thing on my terminals. I ultimately didn't go with it because people have reported destroying their systems while using it[1]. Wrapping libc (which is itself wrapping the actual syscall) is a tricky thing to do safely.

I looked into accomplishing the same thing with URxvt's pre- and post-text rendering hooks, but couldn't get it to work.

[1]: [https://github.com/sickill/stderred/issues/63](https://github.com/sickill/stderred/issues/63)

<comment><USER3> Disappointed in the response over at Ubuntu: [https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/initramfs- tools/+b...](https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/initramfs- tools/+bug/1729836)

IMO this should be treated as a bug in initramfs-tools.

<comment><USER4> This isn't an initramfs-tools bug–if you're LD_PRELOADing into a binary, presumably you know what you're doing. The "bug" here is setting LD_PRELOAD as root (if accidentally through sudo -s) and running a sensitive operation, knowing full well that stderred is a (admittedly very useful, since I use it!) hack at best.

<comment><USER5> I suggest that it actually _is_ an initramfs-tools bug. As pointed out elsewhere in this very discussion, the program in question must be using file descriptor #2 as its output file descriptor for the files that get corrupted, because stderred only inserts its hardwired control sequences on writes to that file descriptor. That's a bad thing to be doing _independent of stderred_ , because there is potentially other (library) code in the relevant program (whatever it is) that assumes that file descriptor #2 is usable for diagnostics. Even without stderred in the mix, it is a bug waiting to be triggered via another route.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> This works better if there are distinct escape sequences to mark the start and end of stderr output, as in DomTerm ([http://domterm.org/Wire-byte- protocol.html#Special-sequences...](http://domterm.org/Wire-byte- protocol.html#Special-sequences-sent-by-back-end-and-handled-by-DomTerm)). I created a fork ([https://github.com/PerBothner/stderred](https://github.com/PerBothner/stderred)) of stderrred: If DOMTERM is set, then it uses the DomTerm-specific escape sequences. This has two advantages:

\- If the error message has ANSI escape sequences (like gcc does), then you get an ugly initially-red output line. \- You can do fancier styling with CSS, since the DomTerm escape sequence creates an element explicitly marked as error output, which is more semantically meaningful than "red".

<comment><USER7> Neat! We were actually considering doing something like this with custom CSI sequences. Glad to see someone else has already picked some sensible ones.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Bash has process substitution. It supports sending stderr to a process. So...

$ somecmd 2> >(someutility)

Should do roughly the same thing. To highlight stderr with red color:

$ somecmd 2> >(perl -ne '$|++;print "\033[31m$_\033[00m"')

I assume you could roll that into a bash function or script easily enough.

Here's another approach too: [https://github.com/dmoulding/hilite/blob/master/hilite.c](https://github.com/dmoulding/hilite/blob/master/hilite.c)

<comment><AUTHOR> Unfortunately, as explained in the post, both approaches -- which are similar to red.c in the post -- suffer from the out-of-order issue.

<comment><USER9> could you prepend all messages with a timestamp (inc stdout), then reorder in your post-processing?

<comment><AUTHOR> No, because we're running user programs we don't have control over and we're trying to avoid doing any magic in each language environment (which was the original approach that we decided to move away from).

<comment><USER9> i meant in a similar approach to capturing the output of each fd - i.e outside of the user's programs

<comment><AUTHOR> We're back to square one. If it's outside the program you've already lost precision.

<comment><USER10> Depends on the shell. The shell I've been writing actually does the red highlighting of STDERR output natively without needing to monkey patch libc and still keeps the order of precision.

Ironically it's one feature I've never advertised because I thought it would irritate other users besides myself. I had no idea there was a demand for that kind of feature.

<comment><AUTHOR> So what's your secret?

<comment><USER10> Ostensibly it's the same as the Bash example above but because it's baked into the shell itself I'm able to add a very minimal wrapper around the shells PTY to append some ANSI escape sequences.

As an aside, I also started work on a feature in the shell to strip all SGR escape sequences (colour and text formatting) for people who prefer their shell output text only. But that proved a little more problematic because it proved impossible to reliably differentiate between processes that expect a TTY (eg top, lynx, etc) and thus would need to bypass the SGR stripping wrapper, from the processes that don't.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> In principle, there's no way to fix the interleaving issue. But maybe you can minimise it by reading both from a single process, without monkey patching libc.

The first solution (with the JSON adaptor) is the best solution, the only problem is the implementation (because it doesn't make sure that everything that goes to stdout/stderr goes through the JSON adaptors)

You could fix this problem by using a little C program to do the JSON wrapping.

\- The C program would start by setting up two pipes, let's call them pipe_stdout and pipe_stderr.

\- Then the C program forks

\- The child replaces file descriptors 1 & 2 with the write end of the pipes and closes the read ends.

\- The parent process closes file descriptor 0, closes the write end of the pipes, and calls select() on the read end of the pipes

\- The child process calls execve to start the interpreter. All output to stdout/stderr now goes into the pipes to the parent process.

\- the parent process reads data from the pipes, wraps it in JSON, and sends it to stdout.

Is there a reason why you didn't go this route? This way you should have minimal interleaving, and there's no way the interpreter writes data directly to stdout breaking the JSON stream.

<comment><USER7> We tried something like this. Minimal was still confusing a non-trivial percentage of the time. Testing locally it was around 0.9%, but in production under docker where execution is constrained to a single core, it seemed to happen much more often.

It is really confusing to the user to have the prompt in the middle of their output.

<comment><USER11> Interesting. I guess the specific issue with the prompt could be fixed by always printing data from the stderr pipe first, but then you probably get incorrect ordering in other cases...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Why don't you just pass different pipes for stdout and stderr? Then you can treat the two differently, you can do whatever tricks you want to prevent interleaving, you don't have to inject anything...

<comment><AUTHOR> > whatever tricks you want to prevent interleaving

What tricks do you suggest to prevent interleaving? It's not clear it's possible at all.

<comment><USER12> Just line buffer what you read from stdout/stderr. Or even display them in separate sections in your UI.

There's no guarantee of ordering between stdout/stderr, so line buffering them, or displaying them in separate UI sections, or even doing some non- blocking reading to flush one fully before flushing the other, should be sufficient.

<comment><AUTHOR> > Or even display them in separate sections in your UI.

That's a non-starter. We think barring a great UX improvement, the environment should look as predictable and as close to a local setup as possible.

<comment><USER12> Then line buffer stdout and stderr to the same UI element, and also provide an option to toggle showing just one or the other. Sounds pretty useful to be able to switch between just showing one or the other, and showing them line- interleaved by timestamp, even if you do want to default to the latter.

If line buffering isn't enough, you can use heuristics around read sizes and non-blocking reading to guess whether a given write to the pipe was intended to be done as a block.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> oh please no. please don't just simply set all stderr to red - it doesn't help at all, and makes reading multi-line things near impossible (there is a reason why most image/video codecs use 1/2 as many bits to encode red colour data).

besides, what happens to colourisation of output from stderr when a process gives useful color output?

UX is not really my remit (you could maybe guess :) but i'd _greatly_ prefer bold, or stdout as grey, stderr as white - only if no colour control codes are present in the written message.

still, kudos for monkey patching libc :)

<comment><USER7> You can actually set an environmental variable with any color code you want: STDERRED_ESC_CODE. As for color codes in stderr, they work in most cases. If all the color codes are in a single write(), it will more or less be unaffected by the extra red and reset color codes that get stuck on either end.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> This is probably a stupid question, but doesn't the PTY itself already have that out-of-order problem? I mean that it reads both file descriptors and does interleave them in the end. If it didn't they could still colorize things after the PTY.

So I guess my question is, why can't whatever it does to handle the ordering and merge the two be replicated in a small program that reads two names pipes and does the same but with extra colorizing?

<comment><USER7> Not normally, no. The file descriptors sort of act like pointers. During normal execution in a pty, stdrr and stdout both point to the same device with the same buffer. Nothing is handling the order because there is only one buffer being written to.

<comment><USER13> > Nothing is handling the order because there is only one buffer being written > to.

Ah, that's what I was missing. Thank you, that makes sense.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> First: Standard error is not just for formatted error messages. It is ironic that this is based upon dealing with REPLs when Unix shells, one of which is even available on the WWW site, _use standard error for their prompts and for their interactive line editors_. Users do like to put control sequences in their prompts.

* [https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/434839/5132](https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/434839/5132)

Second: Even as an example that read() implementation is exceedingly bad. It is stack frame corruption waiting to happen.

Third: This is another example of hardwiring control sequences for a particular class of terminal and not respecting TERM=dumb. It probably won't be a problem for the WWW site, but it will for the underlying general-purpose tool.

</comment><comment><USER14> Small nitpick, LD_PRELOAD will override the write() function from the libc, which is a wrapper around the system call, not the write system call itself.

<comment><USER15> This is significant for programs written in Go, which tends to make system calls directly instead of using the libc wrapper functions. LD_PRELOAD trickery often doesn't work with Go programs for this reason.

<comment><USER4> On macOS, Go just straight up prevents the use of DYLD_INSERT_LIBRARIES (the equivalent of LD_PRELOAD), because macOS runs dyld and this mucks with some sort of threading setup.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Might be nice to splice this kind of functionality into tmux, probably right about here: [https://github.com/tmux/tmux/blob/486ce9b09855ae30a2bf5e576c...](https://github.com/tmux/tmux/blob/486ce9b09855ae30a2bf5e576cb6f7ad37792699/client.c#L615)

Wouldn't need any LD_PRELOAD tricks...

</comment><comment><USER16> Great post, but I'm not sure running a monkey-patched libc is a "small" sacrifice. I would be concerned this leads to very obscure behaviour down the line, especially when your main purpose is to be a REPL and run the code _correctly_ without any "surprises" like these.

<comment><AUTHOR> That's a valid concern. However, given our scale, we find those obscure behaviors, if they exist (like interleaving output), pretty quickly.

We're keeping an eye out in the beta. You can try it by going to your account and adding the explorer role.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> stderr is not for errors! (at least, not necessarily) It's for messaging things to the user. These are often errors, but there are some examples like curl that use stderr for progress.

Leave it up to the CLI to decide what colors to use.

<comment><USER18> why does curl used stderr over say stdout? (and happy to read any links you have, trying to learn)

<comment> black-tea Because stdout is used for the output of the program, ie. the stuff downloaded from the URL.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> I don't see out-of-order issues when using interactive SSH, and SSH still funnels stdout and stderr over a single TCP connection (keeping them separate at the client's side)

Seems to me that you could just look at how SSH does it ?

<comment><USER7> SSH only separates the streams when you don't request a PTY. For example try:

      ssh localhost -t 'echo hi 1>&2'  2>test

vs

      ssh localhost 'echo hi 1>&2'  2>test

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> all this complexity for what? seems like a lot for a little.

<comment><AUTHOR> We care about user experience enough to justify the cost. Maybe some experienced hackers might not mind undifferentiated colors, novices surely do and since Repl.it is increasingly a place where a lot of people start their coding journey, this is important.

<comment><USER21> If you care about the user experience that much, then you should do as others have suggested and just separate the output into two different text areas. If you're concerned about your UI matching the local behavior then it just shouldn't be colorized at all. Dirty hack solutions are incompatible with both goals.</comment></comment></comment>


Event: YC Applicants Unite - <AUTHOR>

Couple other YC applicants for Winter 2011 (some rejected, some accepted) are getting together to have drinks and swap interview war stories at Red Rock tonight. If you're still in town join us at Red Rock around 7:00 PM in Mountain View.  This is an open invite not organized by YC, so spread the word to anyone else who applied or just vote this up.<p>Meetup Details:
What: Meetup for drinks Who: Any YC applicant for Winter 2011 still in the Bay When: 11/20/2010 @ 7:00PM Where: Red Rock: 201 Castro Street, Mountain View, CA 94041	 http://maps.google.com/maps/place?cid=4140843673288073926<p>-Alan <comment><USER2> Downstairs or upstairs?</comment>


Show HN: Crypto, our NES game that we did for 2016 GGJ - <AUTHOR> http://globalgamejam.org/2016/games/crypto <comment><AUTHOR> Hi everyone.

For this year me and 3 friends of mine developed a NES game for Global Game Jam 2016. We developed it on C using Shiru's neslib. There was a time limit of 48-hours. Here is a video while we are playing it.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2TEsonhl7o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2TEsonhl7o)

It is a co-op only game. So a bit hard to play with single player. There are 4 items on map and your objective is to bring them to their correct places at center.

You can play it here: [http://www.enginmercan.com/crypto/](http://www.enginmercan.com/crypto/)

You can find find binaries/sources on GGJ page.

If you want to support us, you can buy it on itch.io!

[http://kabraxis.itch.io/crypto](http://kabraxis.itch.io/crypto)</comment>


Plans for Gimp 2.8 and beyond - <AUTHOR> http://www.gimp.org/

<comment><USER2> THE FIRST PLAN INVOLVES SHOUTING! And apparently the Gimp people aren't using any sort of actual blog engine, so it's impossible to permalink the post in question, which is rather confusingly hidden on their front page. Rather than complaining about it, I'll just copy and paste the full text here:

\----

In the face of all sorts of rumours and interpretations about the future of the project there is a call for clarification regarding development of GIMP.

Currently GIMP team is working on finalizing the new stable v2.8 with many improvements such as layer groups, improved brush dynamics, a new unique transformation tool, optional single-window mode and more. There are two big obstacles in our way right now: missing specification on the last change in user interface and broken graphic tablets support in GTK+.

We have already invested a lot of time into UI changes and brush dynamics, we treasure your continuous support for the project and thus we are determined to release v2.8 only when it's working out of box as expected for everybody.

After releasing v2.8 the focus of development will shift to deep integration of GEGL — our new non-destructive image processing core. Results of this work will enable many features considered critical for use of GIMP in professional environment which is part of GIMP's product vision. It's a lot of work, and currently we don't have enough developers to make this change happen very fast. If you want to help us to get there faster, we encourage you to join gimp-developer mailing list and/or the IRC channel to discuss how you could contribute.

<comment><USER3> I looked for all caps and didn't find any, then for an exclamation point and found one after "Have fun!" Would you mind clarifying what you meant by your first sentence? I agree about the nonexistent permalink, though, so thanks for the copy-paste.

<comment><USER4> The original HN submission title was in all-caps

<comment><USER5> That explains a lot, thank you.

<comment><USER2> I was going to go back and edit it once it no longer made sense, but the edit time had expired at that point.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I could rant about a few things that bug me, but please let 2.8 bring a single-window UI. That would confirm to me that they're slowly getting towards something more usable.

<comment><USER5> From TFA: "optional single-window mode"

(I'm also very excited about this.)

<comment><AUTHOR> You can test single window modus. With Gimp 2.7 - the development version of Gimp

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> They have been promising the transition to GEGL for so long, it is practically vaporware. Yes, I realize that there are GEGL-based effects in the current builds - but I don't GEGL replacing the current core for a long time - and I have my doubts it ever will.

<comment><USER8> Maybe the lack of devs? I cannot imagine which commercial company would be interested in supporting GIMP development. Let's face it, financial support for open-source software development is critical (KDE/Gnome may be the exception, but the financial investment into these two may be justified indirectly). ImageMagick fit the niche that the web needs server-side image processing library and made money from it. But GIMP is client-side, semi- professional image processing software, who have the incentive to financially support it? (Maybe some professional graphic design companies, but again, they may not have the top-dev for image processing software, that is a big investment for them). I may miss something here, please correct me if I do so.

<comment><USER9> There is also a more general problem that Gimp is hard to build. I was doing some JavaFX exporter fixes and getting the environment right took most of the time. Otherwise, I found the code base quite clean.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> <http://git.gnome.org/browse/gimp/plain/NEWS> <\-- list of changes in the current development version i.e. GIMP 2.7.1</comment>


International Entrepreneur Rule - <AUTHOR> https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/01/17/2017-00481/international-entrepreneur-rule <comment><USER2> Reading through it. The gist is you can get 30 months of parole from USCIS if you are a startup entrepreneur that has raised investment. Seems like the threshold is $250k and it can support up to 3 founders. You must own at least 10% to be considered a founder.

Looks like you can also get an additional 30 months by raising a further $500k, or having at least $500k ARR with 20% annual growth, or employing 5 US persons full time. You need to maintain a 5% stake and continue to serve a central role in operations in order to qualify for the additional 30 months.

The investment has to be raised from investors with a track record of investing in high growth startups.

This will come into force from July 17 2017.

<comment><USER3> One thing that will let you in is if you are invested in from

> investors with established records of successful investments

The rich get richer. Established investors get cheap labor, while upstart competitive investors get buried behind an artificial government wall. I wonder if any established investment firms lobbied for that?

<comment><USER4> Same with hedge funds. Government 'protects' the average investor by only letting qualified rich people invest in hedge funds (and get richer). I love how the government asserts that it knows what's best for me and protects me from myself. Such a free nation we live in.

<comment><USER5> > Government 'protects' the average investor by only letting qualified rich > people invest in hedge funds

Having dealt with this situation recently, I'm a little more sympathetic to the government's position.

Most investors are dumb. Really dumb. No, dumber than that.

It's really easy for a con man to set up shop. It takes _forever_ to get him shut down, and the scammed will fight you.

Scammed investors will _defend_ the scammer even when you present them with incontrovertible proof. You can stand in court and have a judge hand down rulings of the level of "worst case I have seen" and they will _STILL_ defend him.

Preventing these kinds of "investors" from even getting into the game is really the only way to keep it under control.

Trump being elected was hardly a surprise to me given my recent experiences with dumb investors.

<comment><USER4> Sounds like a problem with a different part of the system (too many legal protections to effectively shut down ponzi schemes/cons/etc.). In general, I've never heard a compelling argument that the government should pass laws that limit people's freedoms, solely for the purpose of potentially defending people from their own willful decisions that affect only themselves.

<comment><USER5> > too many legal protections to effectively shut down ponzi schemes/cons/etc.

The problem is that the the person carrying out the scam is playing with "house money" while the ones trying to stop him are paying cash. He is paying lawyers with the money from the investors and burning up the assets. So, by the time you are done, it may be a Pyrrhic victory.

<comment><USER4> How many hedge funds fall into this category of scammers? And with our protective legal framework, how come you still had to deal with a situation like this?

Not only do I dislike the freedom limitations _in principle_ , but I've been giving everyone the benefit of the doubt that limiting freedoms will actually prevent the targeted type of scams. In reality, scammers will always find a way, criminals are not bound by laws, and we're still stuck with the inherent flaws of only giving the rich access to wealth-generating funds.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Ok, that's the immigration side. What is the tax status of people admitted under this rule? IIRC, only F and J visas are exempt from becoming American taxpayers

Being an American taxpayer is fine and dandy if you never plan to live outside the us again; but if you aren't, it's a very expensive and labour intensive deal; your home country bank will fire you as a customer because of FATCA, the reporting requirements to the us are insane (FBAR and every single foreign transaction needs to be reported), and your e.g. Pension savings and other holdings likely become a losing proposition because they are PFICs.

Most people ignore these issues, but almost everyone is liable under the us tax code, and especially with the just announced sharing of NSA data with the IRS, it will all be legally documented for the IRS to pursue.

<comment><USER7> Holders of F and J visas do pay taxes in the US, though they may also be liable for taxes in their home countries. (Depending on treaties with their home countries, they may or may not be better off than a regular US taxpayer.)

You may be thinking of the rule requiring American citizens to pay taxes over their worldwide income, not only their US income. That rule applies to American citizens as well as permanent residents ("green-card holders"), but generally not to anyone in the US on a temporary visa. That means that someone in the US on a temporary visa will generally be paying US taxes over any income from a job or business they have in the US, but if they have, e.g., income from renting out real estate in another country, that income may be taxed in that other country, but not in the US. Only US citizens and permanent residents are required to report any such foreign income in the US and pay taxes over it, even when they move abroad (with some exemptions).

FATCA is not as onerous as you describe for most regular people. As a US taxpayer (whether a citizen or permanent or temporary resident), you have to report foreign bank accounts that at any point during the year contain more than the equivalent of something like $10,000. That's it. There is no requirement (as far as I'm aware) to report "every single foreign transaction."

You're right that retirement planning can be complicated for immigrants and temporary visitors. Many countries have rules like the US, where you have to pay into the system for a certain number of years before you become eligible for social-security payments in old age. So for many immigrants retirement becomes a patchwork of sources (a bit of social security, a bit of foreign social security, and otherwise savings in whatever accounts are available in the US and abroad.)

<comment><USER6> > You may be thinking of the rule requiring American citizens to pay taxes > over their worldwide income, not only their US income. That rule applies to > American citizens as well as permanent residents ("green-card holders"), but > generally not to anyone in the US on a temporary visa.

It is indeed what I'm thinking about, but I believe you are wrong about the "temporary visa" thing - As far as I know, only F and J visas (inherently temporary) are exempt; H-1B, L-1, E-1, O and K visas which are temporary in the sense that they expire on job termination / divorce, but they still subject you to taxation of your worldwide income.

> There is no requirement (as far as I'm aware) to report "every single > foreign transaction."

There is a requirement to report the details of every transaction that has capital gains and losses associated with it, if that transaction did not happen in the US.

A few years back, I got a call from my foreign bank one day, saying that because I was a US taxpayer (for several years, at that point, well documented with the bank), they could no longer maintain any of my accounts other than checking and saving. At that point, my bank was also my broker keeping some long term bonds, stocks, mutual funds, etc. So, they had me choose whether I want to transfer them to a SEC-regulated bank/broker (impossible - non had the facilities), or liquidate them -- which is what I did.

Had this been done in the US, I would just have to report aggregate capital gains/losses. and that's it. However, as this was outside the US, I had to fill a 2-page form describing every liquidation transaction that the bank did. I ended up filing north of 300 pages that year. "Luckily", now I can't purchase any of these securities so that won't happen again, except ....

> You're right that retirement planning can be complicated for immigrants and > temporary visitors.

No, I'm not talking about retirement planning, which is indeed complicated.

Almost every country has a pension saving system independent of the social- security (or equivalent) system. In the US, for example, it is IRAs and 401K. These things get preferential tax treatments, usually "no tax (up to some limit) as long as you only cash it when you retire". However, the US does not recognize any other country's preferred retirement saving. Those savings are in 99% of the cases, a PFIC from the perspective of the US tax system.

Which leaves you with three choices: Either cash it, retroactively forfeiting any tax benefit (possibly 20 years of it), and move it to a US equivalent; Or .. pay a tax each year on the theoretical profit of those pension accounts ... or, pay a lump compounded interest-and-penalty tax the day you actually cash it, which will likely be 50%-100% of that sum.

Now, if you've moved to the US for good, then, by all means, you have to take the hit to switch systems. However, if you can't guarantee that you can stay forever, all your options regarding taxation of your pension saving are awful.

<comment><USER8> > However, the US does not recognize any other country's preferred retirement > saving.

This is not completely true: Canadian RRSPs are recognized by the IRS at the federal level due to a tax treaty, though may not be recognized by all states. (For example, I had to figure the interest on the investments for my California return, until I decided to sell the RRSPs to simplify my life.) Other countries may get special treatment for their tax-deferred retirement accounts via a tax treaty too, though it can be tricky to ascertain -- you may end up actually having to read the treaty!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> This will be gamed hard by rich people to get into the U.S.

Essentially a red carpet side door if you have a slab of cash.

<comment><USER10> I am not native English speaker so I might be misreading, but isn't _parole_ meant to be for people in prison? So how does this have anything to do with getting into the U.S.?

There _is_ already something like what you are suggesting in the U.S. AFAIK, just $500k or $1M depending on the situation.

<comment><USER11> Parole is a term used by immigration for cases where they use their own authority to let someone in when the law doesn't quite allow it.

For example in late 2000 the US government didn't get around to renewing the "visa waiver" law in time. Rather than suddenly requiring visas from everybody from the former visa waiver countries (and cause travel chaos), passports were stamped "PAROLED" for visa waiver people (mostly tourists) entering until the law was renewed. (I had a stamp like that in October 2000).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> This is good news for YC, and I bet that the amount of international founders accepted will increase in the next batch.

</comment><comment><USER13> Should you not be offered some sort of permanent residency in return for "growth and job creation that they would provide a significant public benefit to the United States", especially after the first 30 months?

So you get 60 months and then have to leave the country? How is that attractive?

<comment><USER14> People usually convert themselves to H1B at some point in the process.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> When was this passed?

<comment><USER16> it is a regulatory action, so it was never "passed" per se. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rulemaking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rulemaking)

it is post-dated next tuesday, I didn't know could post-date a rule

<comment><USER17> Because it isn't legally "published" until the next business day and Monday is a federal holiday.

Federal law says rulemaking isn't valid until 180 days have passed so it kicks in July 17.

All of these rules are to keep federal agencies from changing the rules out from under people, and to give Congress/Courts time to act.

<comment><USER15> Interesting. Thanks for the background and links. So this is how federal agencies that report to the executive branch legislate. I had always wondered what the actual process was.

<comment><USER16> They don't "legislate" they "regulate".

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> The status is iffy and still no easy path to a permanent residence. They recommend the usual route of O-1A or EB-2 and no adjustment of status either.

</comment><comment><USER19> everyone should remember this is the port of entry body. allowing them to decide in case of urgency makes sense fully.

entrepreneurs already can request a visa in their home country usa embassy.

why the people validating documents at the airport should now decide on startups sounds crazy at least.

</comment><comment><USER20> Does anyone know if you could apply for permanent residency while on this visa?

<comment><USER21> No, you can't. This is not a visa.

<comment><USER2> You can apply for any kinds of visa you want while taking advantage of the parole according to the linked article. You would need to leave the US to change status though.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> 250k is way too low a threshold. I'd put it at at least a million, if not more. But hey, it'll all be repealed shortly anyway, so who cares.</comment>


ASK HN: Who would you use to host a Dot Net Nuke site? - <AUTHOR>

My boss informed that we have to get scalable web hosting for a Dot Net Nuke powered social networking site. I've always used Media Temple or Dreamhost and my company uses Hostmonster. (We're a small integrated marketing firm in Kansas City.)<p>None of these options will work because they don't support .asp. Who would you use? <comment><USER2> <http://discountasp.net/sp_dotnetnuke.aspx> .Net hosting tends to more expensive but discount has been good to me in the past.</comment>


Bret Victor's live editable game in ClojureScript - <AUTHOR> http://www.chris-granger.com/2012/02/26/connecting-to-your-creation/ <comment><USER2> Applying this to more than just games, you could probably make a really good tool for mathematical modeling of physical situations. Speed would be an issue, but it would be a good way to test out ideas quickly.

<comment><USER3> This idea is the subject of Bret's essay "Up and down the ladder of abstraction" [1] which is a fantastic read.

[1] <http://worrydream.com/LadderOfAbstraction/>

<comment><USER2> I remember geeking out to that when it came out! Since reading that I have been playing around with d3 a good deal to try and be able to make some of the stuff he has. I've been slaving away at this for the past few days actually: <http://zacharymaril.com/analytics/>

This afternoon, I will put up a better version (this one won't work for you due to some figuration stuff), but this takes in your google analytics data and maps it a bit better than the normal set up.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Wow that is a great example! Kudos Chris.

I would also like to point some of the commenters to (fluxus) <http://www.pawfal.org/fluxus/>. It is a very nice example of this concept of the same thing, only using racket/plt scheme.

Live coding/reactive code are fantastic little ideas which I wish had been exposed to me earlier in my career.

</comment><comment><USER5> ClojureScript compiler being written in Clojure is a huge disadvantage. It should be written in JavaSript or ideally self-hosting. That way for this project you wouldn't need the server and when its hosted somewhere there is no need to the compile round-trip each time the code changes. Also as a plus you'd have eval!

<comment><USER6> self-hosting only gets you bragging rights and neat demos - it offers little advantage for real applications targeting JavaScript. That said, ClojureScript now implements most of Clojure - if someone wanted to bootstrap ClojureScript for fun it wouldn't be much work, go for it.

<comment><USER5> "I didn't put it up on heroku because the latency kills the real-time aspect of it."

There is your advantage, if it was self-hosting then this wouldn't be an issue.

<comment><USER6> Advantage for a beautiful _demo_. If I'm going to actually build real applications in this way, I don't need to run my development environment on someone else's website.

<comment><USER5> Maybe you don't but many people do prefer coding on the web. There is some very good web IDEs out there. e.x. <http://c9.io/>

Also you haven't mentioned eval anywhere in your argument. Don't you think a lisp should have an eval?

<comment><USER7> This was beaten to death on the release of clojurescript. I think the consensus is it's not worthwhile, since there are real benefits to google's closure compiler, optimization, and dead code elimination. But there's nothing stopping you from implementing it?

<comment><USER5> You're right I should put my code where my mouth is!

As for closure compiler, uglify-js is an obvious replacement, it does all the optimizations, dead code elimination. It only falls short with inlining.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Awesome and Awesome.

Looks like today is the day that I learn clojure! ^^

</comment><comment> brown9-2 Do you guys think Bret Victor built an actual editor for his "live editing" demo, or just build enough of a demo to illustrate his principle?

It seems to me that if what he had built was a real editor (i.e. could be used for more than just his Braid demo game), there would be immense value in releasing/selling it.

<comment><USER9> Sometimes the seed of an idea is more important to get right than the finished product.

<comment><USER10> Reply: <https://twitter.com/worrydream/status/174204355220738048>

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> After I saw this talk, I thought about what it would take for making such an editor for general-purpose programming (and not just drawing or simulations).

I came up with this basic UI concept: <http://livecoding.staticloud.com/>

<comment><USER10> That's exactly what I had in mind for running tests, I think you're definitely on the right track. Great work!

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> Bret's talk has the potential to transform lives.

But anyone has any idea how to do something like that on iOS/Xcode?

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> I just added a downloadable jar for it as well: <https://github.com/ibdknox/live-cljs/downloads>

      java -jar live-cljs.jar

</comment><comment><USER13> This is really cool. One problem I've noticed with real time evaluation is infinite loops. I've played with an realtime javascript editor/evaluator and I inadvertently locked the browser (and the editor) when writing code. Imagine writing a "while (true)" loop and it evaluates before you've finished the break condition.

<comment><USER14> If simulation runs (and it should) in the different thread, then nothing bad happens.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> hmm, when you unpause, the player just falls straight down rather, ignoring the velocity it should have.

also, in the talk the player's path was projected into the future, iirc, not just showing the past

<comment><AUTHOR> He rolled the player back, so it wasn't projected into the future, it was just he adjusted the current position backwards. you fall straight down because your velocity is dependent on whether or not you have the key pressed. Jump and let go of the arrow.

</comment></comment><comment> Tim-Boss I haven't quite yet recovered from a weekend of sleep deprivation, and was entirely disappointed to learn that the link was for an "editable game", not an "edible game"...

</comment><comment><USER16> I notice in your Overtone + ClojureScript screencast you were using VIM on Mac, but this looked different. Are you using SublimeText here or Noir itself as the editor?

<comment><USER16> Also, what editor/tools do you recommend for general Clojure, ClojureScript, or Noir development and why?

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> amazing !</comment>


Ask HN: How do you train your developers? - <AUTHOR> How do you ensure that your development team's tech skills stay up-to-date? Do you use videos, live training, internal resources, or something else? <comment><USER2> A better question might be: _DO_ you train your developers? I've not worked for a single company where management took a proactive approach about training developers. At most, approval was granted for purchasing/reimbursing for books, videos, and a conference, but that required the developers to take the initiative.

<comment><AUTHOR> Interesting. Were these small companies, or large ones as well?</comment></comment>


Librarian removes controversial list of "predatory" journals and publishers - <AUTHOR> https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/01/18/librarians-list-predatory-journals-reportedly-removed-due-threats-and-politics <comment><USER2> TL;DR What Jeffrey Beall was doing could be described as one honest man trying to fight the predatory publishing mafia, by nothing else but exposing their misdeeds. Unfortunately, the mafia managed to silence him.

For those who do not know what predatory publishing is, it is basically the "business" similar to diploma mills: they issue crap credentials (by publishing "scientific articles") for a "modest" fee to people who need those credentials to be employed as "scientists", "researchers", and in many positions (including politics) that formally require those. It mostly happens in developing nations...

<comment><USER3> _It mostly happens in developing nations..._

You wish. You see the same crap in regional universities - faculty must do "research" with undergrads and "publish" the stuff. Back then you had campus journals run by students, but now you have predatory journals. What you don't have is administration with a clue.

Administration entered working life sometime in the early 1990s with maybe one or two papers out of their PhD, they worked their way up the ranks and have no notion what they are doing. They may even think that someone who paid OMICS Open Chemistry to print the paper they wrote about the fluff in their belly button did good work. They may even require _n_ papers for tenure. OMICS will provide! Junior faculty need tenure too!

The axe can't fall soon enough. You can't trust academia to police itself, we need academic administrators on a separate career track to police the bloody lot.

<comment><USER4> I've always wondered about academia's habit of pulling its administrators from its ranks. I guess it makes some sense (similar to how an athlete might become a coach), but given that higher ed is essentially a government entity in the US, it seems to make more sense to bring in professional civil servants and administrators. It may create a different set of problems, of course, but academia's tendency to view itself as a thing apart, a thing it's not -- an independent, strictly scholarly entity -- seems to actually hurt its goals.

<comment><USER5> I don't really agree. I'm not an academic, but it's my understanding is that academia's function is to advance human understanding of various topics. I would think injecting "professional civil servants and administrators" into the process would simply push the focus away from scholarship and towards more quotidian things that the government and the administrators are interested in.

Lists like Beall's seem like the way it ought to be done. The academic identify and compile lists of shoddy publications and their peers can treat those journals an as _persona non grata_.

<comment><USER4> What, exactly, are the quotidian things that the government and administrators are interested in? My point is that academics are already absurdly political, both internally (the fight for tenure and academic domain) and external (budgets and priorities). The people who run academia are already basically professional administrators, once you've set on an administrative path, research is very hard to undertake. Why continue with the charade? In my experience, most administrators just want to do their job. I think it's easy to underestimate the number of workaday government administrators that run water treatment plants, streetlights, engineers, etc, that just want to do their job efficiently.

<comment><USER2> The point is that scientific process requires personal integrity and independence. The role of scientist is more similar in that regard to the role of a judge that to the role of a water treatment engineer.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> > OMICS International, a publisher Beall has previously described as "the > worst of the worst," in 2013 threatened to sue Beall, seeking $1 billion in > damages.

$1 billion in damages? Against a librarian? It seems like OMICS International has _confirmed_ they're the worst of the worst.

</comment><comment><USER6> I hope someone else takes up the mantle and continues to curate the list. Unfortunately Beall was in a unique position of respect and academic standing where his opinion carried most of the value of the list. On its own without the continued careful vetting by a well-respected and unbiased professional in the scientific community the list is pretty much worthless.

<comment><USER7> > Cabell's, which offers services that help librarians, researchers and others > discover scholarly journals, has since 2015 worked with Beall on developing > a journal blacklist. That list is slated to launch this spring.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Note that "open access" in the context of academic publishing is a weasel word: it means that the submitters of the article have to pay for it instead of the readers. This can be quite expensive, hence the invention of predatory journals who want the money.

<comment><USER9> While this is true on its face, any OA publisher worth their salt offers a fee waiver program, and the expection from Day 1 of OA has been that these costs should be baked into grant applications and funding requests. Many funding bodies and institutions take care of this for you, having OA funds and assistance to take care of OA fees and to help direct publishing scientists to non-predatory publishers (Elsevier in particular can charge obscene OA fees)and also pick up the tab.

As such, it is very unusual for a Submitting author to _have_ to pay an OA charge.

COI statement: I used to work for an OA-only publisher, but have not been employed there for the last 2 years.

<comment><USER10> The ones who offered fee waiver programs weren't on his list, because they weren't predatory. For example, PNAS may not be a great journal, but it's OpenAcess and not predatory... hundreds of others with very similar names to high profile journals and fake conferences are predatory.

I wouldn't say that it's rare to have to pay (even for a non-free journal)... in fact it may be more common to pay just based on the number of predatory journals and their published articles, it just isn't ethical (either for the publisher or often for the writer).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> It looks like the December 23rd archive at [http://web.archive.org/web/20161230053202/https://scholarlyo...](http://web.archive.org/web/20161230053202/https://scholarlyoa.com/) still has a lot of this information. The January 2017 archiving had it missing.

<comment><USER12> If I had time today, I would totally put this up on a github repo. It might not be easy for one person to keep this up, but with pull requests + a github.io domain, we could keep this good work going.

I'll be happy to help with getting the data archive.org data if someone gets this started.

<comment><USER13> I started it at: [https://github.com/peixian/predatory- publishers](https://github.com/peixian/predatory-publishers). I'll probably do a few more mirrors and setup a github pages site for it too. Feel free to make PR's.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I'm not familiar with this story but I'd like to learn more about it. Any of you HN readers can explain and/or link to more detailed summary?

<comment><USER15> On predatory open access journals and Beall's list: [http://science.sciencemag.org/content/342/6154/60.full](http://science.sciencemag.org/content/342/6154/60.full)

quote "There is another list—one that journals fear. It is curated by Jeffrey Beall, a library scientist at the University of Colorado, Denver. His list is a single page on the Internet that names and shames what he calls "predatory" publishers. The term is a catchall for what Beall views as unprofessional practices, from undisclosed charges and poorly defined editorial hierarchy to poor English—criteria that critics say stack the deck against non-U.S. publishers."

<comment><USER16> Thanks for that link! I was unaware of this trend:

"the data from this sting operation reveal the contours of an emerging Wild West in academic publishing.

"From humble and idealistic beginnings a decade ago, open-access scientific journals have mushroomed into a global industry, driven by author publication fees rather than traditional subscriptions. Most of the players are murky. The identity and location of the journals' editors, as well as the financial workings of their publishers, are often purposefully obscured.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Re-publishing comment containing links to original list:

\- [https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%...](https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20170112125427%2Fhttps%3A%2F%2Fscholarlyoa.com%2Fpublishers%2F%3A-EibzAO- QGxTovjeNTBl4GVHW68&cuid=1072384)

\- [https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%...](https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20170111172309%2Fhttps%3A%2F%2Fscholarlyoa.com%2Findividual- journals%2F%3AfvH2cJDh0su5KhGqfBVNRgxsTxQ&cuid=1072384)

<comment><USER18> Why is this a disq.us redirect?

\- [https://web.archive.org/web/20170112125427/https://scholarly...](https://web.archive.org/web/20170112125427/https://scholarlyoa.com/publishers/)

\- [https://web.archive.org/web/20170111172309/https://scholarly...](https://web.archive.org/web/20170111172309/https://scholarlyoa.com/individual- journals/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> [http://academictorrents.com/](http://academictorrents.com/)

I really like what these guys are trying to do and it goes hand in hand with the topic here. It's 100% legal. Please help spread the word. I contribute the the swarm whenever I can since I don't have bandwidth limits on my household connection. Comcast put 1 TB monthly caps on ~20 states last year, but the northeast is thankfully too competitive to let that fly, especially with Fios also being available here.

</comment><comment><USER20> Hopefully, this is just another step towards a better scientific publishing system. Beall's list had flaws, and people rightfully didn't trust a list made by a single guy without oversight, but it existed to fill an important need. We'll see what system replaces it.

</comment><comment><USER21> If other readers would like, you can send him an email thanking him for his work and efforts at : email@example.com .</comment>


Slick New iOS Library Lets You Easily Manage Color Schemes in Your Apps - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/dreed1/Color-Factory

<comment><AUTHOR> We're starting to open-source some of the iOS libraries we've been building at work. First library out the door, Color-Factory. It helps you easily build up a default palette to use across your application.</comment>


Ask HN: IRA funds and 401(k)s as your startup funding source? - <AUTHOR>

Hello hackers, I've just read the article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/martinzwilling/2013/03/06/10-more-creative-ways-to-finance-your-startup/<p>#10 says: IRA financing. Investment Retirement Account funds and 401(k)s are arguably the single most accessible alternative funding source available today for startups. You can't use your own self-directed funds for your startup, but many others are willing and able to loan you money from theirs, for the right terms, if they believe in you and your cause.<p>Anybody from HN used IRA and 401(k) for startup funding and can explain the procedure? <comment><USER2> Most startups fail. Betting your retirement funds on something likely to fail is entirely unwise. Allowing others to bet their retirement funds on something likely to fail is inconsiderate and possibly disingenuous. There is a reason why a person being qualified as an "Accredited Investor" is often a requirement for them to be allowed to invest in startups. The risk is substantial, and it's unwise to have people betting their retirement on risky investments.

</comment><comment><USER3> You need to start a C corp and roll it into a corporate retirement account under your new corporation. Your average financial advisor should be able to do this pretty cleanly for you.

That being said I think its a really really bad idea but what do I know

<comment><AUTHOR> Then I wonder why it's a "creative way" according to the article)</comment></comment>


Nokia Welcomes Increasing Windows Phone OEM Competition - <AUTHOR> http://ontechies.com/2014/01/13/nokia-welcomes-increasing-windows-phone-oem-competition/

<comment><USER2> Is the year of windows phone predictions going to replace the year of desktop linux predictions?</comment>


William Gibson: the prophet of cyberspace talks AI and climate collapse - <AUTHOR> https://www.ft.com/content/48b6d0f6-499f-11ea-aeb3-955839e06441 <comment><USER2> "Even today Gibson says he is puzzled by older readers who approach him at book signings to thank him for inspiring them to pursue a career in tech."

Yes, it is weird how the world of Neuromancer and his other early novels were dystopian, but many people didn't see it as "gee, we need to prevent this world from coming into being" but rather as "gee, the technology these characters have is amazing".

<comment><USER3> To crib from the man himself, dystopia is here, it just isn't evenly distributed.

Neuromancer is about cool people doing cool things, cyber-samurai hackers and razorgirls and space rastafarians, criminals and outcasts, and it's not surprising that techies would fetishize the image of the anarchist cyber- cowboy. But how dystopian would the setting be for most people who aren't criminals getting mixed up with the mafia and paramilitary black-ops groups?

We supposedly live in an Orwellian techno-fascist nightmare of omnipresent surveillance and thought-control _now_ , but most people don't feel the boot stamping on their heads. Is that because they're just sheep whose minds are dulled by fluoride and the adrenaline burn of social media, or because it isn't stamping on everyone?

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Piece available on non-paywalled site here: [https://dnyuz.com/2020/02/13/william-gibson-cyberspaces- prop...](https://dnyuz.com/2020/02/13/william-gibson-cyberspaces-prophet- talks-ai-and-climate/)

<comment><USER5> I'm suspicious about sites like DNYUZ that offer no information about themselves. There's an About link at the bottom but the endless autoscroller is so aggressive I can't click it, and /about/ just leads to an article.

<comment><USER6> You were not kidding about that aggressive auto-scroller. Tested it with find in page for about fifteen minutes trying to coerce the about link to stay on page long enough to click or inspect, no dice. I'll have to try catching it with devtools on my regular system.

<comment><USER7> Even when I managed to click on the link itself it only brought me to the page I was already reading (the Gibson article)... were you able to find anything else about them?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> He's so whole minded and generally awesome</comment>


Interfacing Microcontrollers with SD Card - <AUTHOR> https://openlabpro.com/guide/interfacing-microcontrollers-with-sd-card/ <comment><USER2> The CDN isn't resolving, which makes the page a bit of a mess.</comment>


Sunset Geometry (2016) - <AUTHOR> https://www.shapeoperator.com/2016/12/12/sunset-geometry/ <comment><USER2> I found this to be a very gentle introduction to GA, FWIW:

"Geometric Algebra for Electrical and Electronic Engineers"

> This tutorial paper provides a short introduction to geometric algebra, > starting with its history and then presenting its benefits and exploring its > applications.

> Abstract: In this paper, we explicate the suggested benefits of Clifford's > geometric algebra (GA) when applied to the field of electrical engineering. > Engineers are always interested in keeping formulas as simple or compact as > possible, and we illustrate that geometric algebra does provide such a > simplified representation in many cases. We also demonstrate an additional > structural check provided by GA for formulas in addition to the usual > checking of physical dimensions. Naturally, there is an initial learning > curve when applying a new method, but it appears to be worth the effort, as > we show significantly simplified formulas, greater intuition, and improved > problem solving in many cases.

[https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/6876131?arnumber=687613...](https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/6876131?arnumber=6876131)

> By James M. Chappell, Samuel P. Drake, Cameron L. Seidel, Lachlan J. Gunn, > Student Member IEEE, Azhar Iqbal, Andrew Allison, and Derek Abbott, Fellow > IEEE

</comment><comment><USER3> This is really cool. It reminds me of a friend of mine measured the rotation rate of the earth using in a way that I thought was pretty neat.

[https://nickdrachman.wordpress.com/2019/07/31/measuring- the-...](https://nickdrachman.wordpress.com/2019/07/31/measuring-the-angular- velocity-of-the-earth-from-the-color-of-my-living-room-wall/)

</comment><comment><USER4> My Dad tinkered with nautical sextants. He told me the Sun is actually visible _after_ it dips below the horizon due to refraction.

<comment><USER5> That was my thought - isn't refraction going to mess up the trigonometry involved here? Like in the Bedford Level experiment [1]

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedford_Level_experiment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedford_Level_experiment)

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Excellent article. Thanks.</comment>


China Rolls Out 'Social Credit Score' System - <AUTHOR> http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2018/04/24/china-assigns-every-citizen-a-social-credit-score-to-identify-who-is-and-isnt-trustworthy/amp/ <comment><USER2> This has been discussed couple of times earlier too:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16788296](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16788296)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13201926](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13201926)

</comment><comment><USER3> My mother in law is already paranoid, warning us not to talk about certain topics with her. Scary stuff.

I should point out that my MIL is a completely apolitical person who worked in the Chinese government for her entire career, spending most of that time just helping poor people, without a shred of corruption. She has nothing to worry about, doesn't care about politics, and even _she 's_ paranoid about this.

<comment><USER4> Do you know what should be more paranoid? No body in China are publicly paranoid about it, at least I didn't notice anyone does on domestic websites.

On websites which out of censorship though, is another story, of course.

<comment><USER5> Yeah, because you'll get penalty points... One step till 1984.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Nice thing is you can use this in an offensive manner too.

Japanese forums have been raided by Chinese trolls in the past. Now the Japanese just post a statement about Tienanmen square and poof, no more Chinese attendance, as the Great Firewall starts blocking...

Interesting times.

<comment><USER7> I wonder why the Chinese internet is still even connected to the Internet (other than for cyber-warfare).

<comment><USER8> Well, let's not forget that a significant percentage of the "decentralized" bitcoin mining network, operates out of China[0].

Currently BTC.COM[1] and AntPool[2] combined make up 42.5% of the network and both are both owned by Bitmain, a company headquartered in Beijing.

ViaBTC[3] is also a Chinese mining company operating out of Shenzhen and has 10.1%. I'm not going to bother checking the rest since that's already 52.6% of the network controlled by 2 companies under 1 authoritarian regime.

[0] [https://blockchain.info/pools](https://blockchain.info/pools)

[1] [https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BTC.com](https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BTC.com)

[2] [https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/AntPool](https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/AntPool)

[3] [https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/viabtc](https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/viabtc)

<comment><USER9> I wonder why I haven't heard that repeated more often. That is not good.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> If i where a dictator, i would punnish whoever pitched this as a traitor- after all- now you are cut off from all true information, you get the perfect soap opera- no matter how the people feel, until the day the fluffy thunderclouds around you decide its time for a chain reaction.

How this could seem to anyone in power a good idea- i will never know.

<comment><USER11> Its intended purpose has little to do with monitoring.

This starts Orwellian and end Huxleyan, in that a generation or two in, the majority of people's _perception will be altered_. They have no access to dissenting thought and their critical thinking skills are as dull as a doorknob.

This is about thought control.

<comment><USER10> So many methods where tryied, but when the great cycle of strife comes back with force, i sincerely doubt that 'social' credits will prevent hunger riots. Other people cant judge you if you eat them first.

<comment><USER3> Yea the number of unpublicized civil disobedience (protest, whatever) in China is pretty staggering. China media doesn't pick up on it for obvious reasons, Western media I guess is only interested when they can fit it into their narrative (e.g. 6/4), which isn't the case for relatively uninteresting protest at random factory or whatever. I mean you see some on Western news, but it's like 10 strikes/protests a day on average, and we don't see the scale of it here.

When you see that, it frames a lot of the party's actions and you see why (maybe you don't agree with it still, whatever). Basically scared shitless of a mass uprising, and trying to keep enough of the fires out, or at least mildly smoldering instead of rating.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Is it fair to say this is objectionable mostly due to the government enforcement of one "score" per person?

After all, we have a "karma score" here on HN and we think it's great... in part, presumably, because it's opt-in and it doesn't follow you around.

Is there a middle ground? As in, an identity service that offers this kind of "trustworthiness score" across services but it's opt-in and you can have as many "identities" as you'd like. You could use a high-trust real-name identity with certain online accounts like banks but also have the ability to use throw-away identities for anonymous browsing and commenting? If such an identity protocol included some kind of cryptographic chain of proof as a way to validate the trustworthiness, it could be quite useful.

<comment><USER13> Or it doesn't merely apply to you? If you're score is too low, guess what? You're kids is not going to be allowed to go to good public schools. Want to do private instead? They won't let you in unless you're score is good.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Does anyone believe that this is only for citizens? It wouldn't be that hard to extend a score for the rest of the world. Your online profile could very well affect your travel.

</comment><comment> yoz-y Is there a way to check this score somewhere somehow when outside of China? My family in-law is Chinese but I just do not hear anything about this from them.

</comment><comment><USER15> It will be interesting to see how YC helps with this as their investment and relationship with China deepens.

(see: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16919952](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16919952))

Update: my account has just been throttled and I cannot make further comments:/

</comment><comment><USER16> I wonder about the after market to identify and target 'low scoring' individuals.

</comment><comment><USER17> Reminds me of this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJg02ivYzSs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJg02ivYzSs)

Which has a concept of "social score".

</comment><comment><USER18> Which countries are likely to emulate or avoid this type of system?

<comment><USER19> Given enough time and depending on how this works out I don't think it is an impossibility that this will eventually be implemented in western countries.

One might object that no sane people would allow this, but we're already allowing mass surveillance. After 9/11 we allowed legislation that is basically one massive infringement of privacy. All it'd take is gradual implementation and some kind of "starter event".

<comment><USER20> Someone already came up with a Yelp for people app, called Peeple. Thankfully the backlash made it pretty clear there was little, if any, support for the concept.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Now just add in some "basic income" and...

</comment><comment><USER22> Chinas NEP is over.

</comment><comment><USER23> This is just scary.

</comment><comment><USER24> Sounds straight out of Black Mirror

</comment><comment><USER25> Is this really such a bad thing for developing countries ? In India, for instance , powerful people use twitter to call for rape and murder of their opponents regularly and politicians justify rape. These are just a small minority of people -- however they are extra-ordinarily vocal and their "free speech" scares all the decent people.

Of course , Social Credit score has no place in western liberal democracies but maybe Social Credit score is not a bad idea for developing countries where ignorant people outnumber educated people ,where depraved medieval traditions still hold sway.

<comment><USER26> The potential for abuse of a "social score" system seems even higher in countries without strong liberal-democratic traditions or an educated voting population. Politicians in India already abuse their oversight of the police to sidestep the legal system. (The classic case of the "son of the MLA" who commits a crime and gets acquitted because of his father's political power.) It would be easy enough to reduce the social scores for opponents or critics of the politicians in power. Hell, there have been arrests in India based on Facebook posts. Not to mention virtual mobs threatening vocal citizens on Twitter. At least these instances are visible. Someone could silently add some bogus stuff to your "social score" file, just like credit reports can contain false information. A "social score" system would just replicate corruption and illiberality on a large scale. From the perspective of those in power, it would be a good way to control people.

<comment><USER25> You do make a very good point about the potential for abuse. My vision for this would be be a dispassionate system -- driven by AI and untouched by politics-- that could create/assign the social score. A model could be created by the science community with inputs from the legal system.

<comment><USER26> Technology just encodes the ethics of the creator, so we can't hope for apolitical technology.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Is this interview style common? - <AUTHOR>

Has anyone else faced interviewers like these?
To give more context, a recruiter approached me for a financial company in NYC. After I agreed to talk to them, he sent my CV over to them.
In the initial phone call,the person calling me gave me a 30 sec introduction about himself. Next he fires his favorite programming question. When I tried to explain, instead of working with me, he kept saying wrong, wrong, wrong. After that, asked me about kMeans Clustering. Again, wrong wrong wrong. 10 min into the phone call, he stopped me and said you are not a good fit, good luck with your search and hung up.
I have a PhD in CS, have published in top conferences in my area and have been in industry for about 3 years now. Haven't experienced anything like this before, but that is only one data point. Is this experience common? How do you respond to this? <comment><USER2> No, it isn't common and screams volumes about the individual and organization that employs him. Ignore, and walk away.

I was working with a mid-sized business and doing interviews to hire people into the team a number of years back. One of their dev leads had phone screened a candidate, decided he was worth bringing on-site for an interview. Had the guy come on-site (the candidate drove 2 hours to get there), we all sat down and because the candidate was nervous he totally flubbed the first 2 questions. To be totally honest I am not sure he understood one of them as I was even questioning what was asked. This dev lead stood up and said thanks but you are not a good fit, bye and walked out of the room, not even showing the candidate out. I was dumb founded and shocked, I had never seen something so unprofessional. Worse yet, I had worked once before with the candidate so he turned to me and said wtf, is he serious?

I had a top recruiter I knew call me the next day and ask if it was true (not sure exactly how he heard so fast), I confirmed that it was indeed true. He stopped doing all business with all divisions of the company that week and would tell candidates about that experience, steering them to other employers. I asked him why he would do that and he said if he sent a candidate into that situation it would be irresponsible and would destroy his reputation. And placing a few candidates there a year wasn't worth it as plenty of alternatives were available. Ironically, I also stopped working directly with that company shortly after that experience as the fact that the management did nothing about it spoke volumes to how they felt about their employees and contractors.

That dev lead left the company sometime after I did and that situation has followed him as while I don't speak with him or work with him I have heard recruiters and applicants alike all say they refuse to interview in his division where he is now because of what they have heard. Ironically, he went into financial services, although I doubt that is a correlation. To be totally honest, the guy is pretty damn smart and good at what he does, but that doesn't excuse being an ass.

<comment><AUTHOR> Pretty sure not the same person as this guy said he was a a professor at some university in CS. That might explain why the recruiter called and asked for my exact GPA during PhD.

Not to bad mouth all recruiters, but I have noticed they tend to hide information about the personality of the person interviewing you as well as the group. The only place where you can get some information about this stuff is glassdoor.

<comment><USER2> Yea, I am positive not the same guy based on location etc. But it was just odd that I literally saw something similar just a few years ago. It really dumb founded me.

I agree overall, most recruiters are not as forth coming as they should be and many times they are motivated only by the dollar. I know of two groups that I would turn to in a second if I needed a position or for assistance filling a position. And one is the recruiter that dropped that company, simply because he has been in the business for 15+ years and really proved to me that he cares about his candidates and his reputation more than just the dollar.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> I'm going to differ from the other answers - I found this technique pretty common when talking to the HFT people. Lots of pet questions with extraordinarily specific answers expected. Example: implement the boost smart pointer on the board. I wrote something, started expounding on design choices and their implications, the guy cuts me off with "I said _boost 's_ implementation. Well, I didn't write the boost implementation, so that was a no go. Bullet dodged, imo. (actually bombed out during another question, some kind of loop detection algorithm. I got the answer, he claimed it was wrong, it just wasn't his way. I googled it afterwards to make sure I wasn't wrong.)

There is a ton of high competition practice for the interview type stuff going on in that field, I believe. I kept far away from the field, so I don't have a lot of data points, and may be very wrong. But this is corroborated by the book Flash Boys - the interview techniques in that books were pretty much what I was subjected to.

<comment><AUTHOR> Good to know. I am going to look at the book Flash Boys. Thank you.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Beware the fake job requisition. They say never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence, but many people _really_ want to hire their friends, and HR policies force them to do a full search to help prevent that. What often happens is a poor experience for everyone but the intended hire, which simply damages the company's reputation.

</comment><comment><USER5> _" How do you respond to this?"_

Enjoy the sense of relief that you won't be working for this guy, and move on.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks. I sent an email to the recruiter basically saying the same thing.

Considering, how recruiters typically work, don't think he cares.

<comment><USER6> You're right, he doesn't care. But his boss might. See if you can find him and send a nice message saying if their firm ever calls again you're hanging up, and warning others away as well.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Sounds like he didn't want to hire you for some unknown reason, but he still had to check off that he "interviewed" you.

<comment><USER8> This would be my impression. He might have had a specific candidate in mind when he created the job req and now has to disqualify everybody else who applied.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> > Is this experience common? How do you respond to this?

It's shocking to encounter inept, inexperienced, socially repulsive corporate executives who think they can magically screen-out candidates in :60 seconds. Uncommon, but not unheard of.

Why do some companies seem to attract talent, while others struggle? May I submit that good leadership attracts good talent. You dodged a bullet with these bozos.

Currently, it's a buyers market for your skill set. You have MORE power than you think. Next time, take control of the conversation-- lead with probing questions important to you. If they're serious, you'll enjoy a good two-way dialog.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks. Those are the interviews I like. But I this case, I didn't get a chance.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Not common. Sounds like the interviewer lacks basic human courtesy.

</comment><comment><USER11> I just walk away. It sucks and reflects poorly on them. I would say it's more common then people assume. But this is not really a reflection on you.

</comment><comment><USER12> I would have thanked them for the opportunity and move on, imagine how they'd treat you if you actually got the job.

</comment><comment><USER13> Sounds more like a competitor for the same place making sure to keep you away. Maybe your name were dropped as possible candidate and he wants you out of the game having another candidate in mind. Maybe somebody was trying to call you in those 10 minutes.... who knows.

</comment><comment><USER14> Good for you that you don't have to work with him now!! NO it's not common.

</comment><comment><USER15> Pity the poor schmuck he does hire. You dodged a bullet.

</comment><comment><USER16> Can you give the name of the company? I'd personally like to save my time and not apply.

I've applied for financial firms and dealt with very polite attitudes from interviewers - and just jealous, spiteful ones.

Keep firing out resumes. This is a numbers game!</comment>


Technical Cofounder's Pie - <AUTHOR>

A friend of mine has a startup idea, and has asked me to be the technology partner. He is investing 50k USD into the venture. The business idea is his and execution will be done by him as well. Both of us have day jobs which we will keep and plan to spend about 20 hrs a week.<p>The question is what will be an appropriate equity that I should ask? <comment><USER2> Worry about the money second. As the technical co-founder you'll be contributing half of your time to the venture.

Ideas are worth absolutely nothing, try selling one. Don't worry that it's his idea, the idea SHOULD and WILL evolve as you develop it, and the idea will then be both of yours.

Money obviously has value, but at this stage of the venture, it's too early to size it. He should loan the money to the company in the form of a convertible note (giving him a nice return on his money) and valuation will come down the road when there's more transparency. You should each split 50/50 the equity, with him holding the debt. Anything less would be unfair to YOU.

Let the equity vest based on hours worked; that way, if one of you goes from 20 to 60 hours, it's much easier to figure out how that works ahead of time.

</comment><comment><USER3> Ask yourself how much time you'll need to invest (up to when it becomes self- sustaining). Multiply that be a reasonable hourly rate. Compare that the the $$$ + time the other founder is investing.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the comments.</comment>