New iPhone SE - <AUTHOR> https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2020/04/iphone-se-a-powerful-new-smartphone-in-a-popular-design/ <comment><USER2> I was itching for this announcement, not because I want to buy an iPhone, but because this will finally mean other manufacturers will start to make compact phones.

It drives me up the wall that I simply cannot find a reasonably competent phone (i.e. mid/upper range from the past 4 years) which is not absolutely fucking huge. It's insane that the "phablet" standard from ~5 years ago is now not even the new standard, but the only standard.

<comment><USER3> > It's insane that the "phablet" standard from ~5 years ago is now not even > the new standard, but the only standard.

Utterly insane.

I replaced my SE with a Sony Xperia XZ2 Compact yesterday. It has a 5" screen and decent specs (2018 flagship). About as small as you can get a mobile nowadays, sadly.

And wow how I've missed Android, the UX is soooo much better in most aspects. I can't believe I was stuck with iOS (as an experiment) for almost 1.5 years. Reason being that I hadn't been able to find anything below 5" in the Android world.

<comment><USER4> > _And wow how I 've missed Android, the UX is soooo much better in most > aspects._

iOS has its problems, but every time I have to handle somebody's Android (i.e. to help them do something faster than telling them), I want to give it back as quickly as possible.

<comment><USER5> I feel the same way when someone hands me an iPhone. In 2020, the operating systems are equally capable and refined, it's just a question of what you're used to. If you had a great Android phone for a few months, you'd probably be just as comfortable with it as you are an iPhone.

When someone asks me what phone to buy, my answer is always "what phone do you have now?" because frankly, there is no reason to switch from one to the other. It's just a waste of time and energy to go through that.

<comment><USER6> Unless you care about privacy, in which case the answer seems to be iPhone. I haven't found a good Android experience that doesn't involve funneling everything to Google.

<comment><USER7> You can atleast remove the googleware to a great degree, you can't do the same for iPhones easily.

Huge difference. You have fdroid, apk slicer and alternative stores without google gate-keeping. You can reflash your phone with ungoogled android or open source alternative gapps package. Use microG to sandbox google stuff.

There are ton of ways to contain googleware.

<comment><USER8> Which of those do you think are accessible to the average user?

<comment><USER9> All of them if someone else does the initial set up, from first hand experience.

<comment><USER8> What about updates or when something goes wrong?

<comment><USER7> Does google provide you support when something otherwise go wrong? No. Unless of course it's a pixel.

And I have a custom rom which gets update every month. Ungoogled. :)

<comment><USER10> The comparison you should be making isn't with Google, but Apple.

My experience with custom ROMs was unfortunately a lot worse than yours. I had the original Galaxy Note, and picking a custom ROM for that was a "Updated, has features, doesn't kill your battery - pick 2" kind of deal.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> 1163 Comment right now, ~800 Are about Size of Devices. I thought there was another important point.

The current entry level iPhone; iPhone SE 2020 with A13 is now faster in Single Threaded performance than _ALL_ current shipping Android, including Flagship Android. And judging by the Qualcomm roadmap, this will likely remain the same in 2021 as well.

This is important if you are doing or using Web Apps like Discourse which requires JS processing. The Cost of javascript is still huge. [1] [2]. And While Mobile Apps are well optimised to take advantage of multiple cores, it will still be bounded by Amdahl's law[3].

And a point on devices size.

Japan, the nation which prefer single handed usage and small size Smartphone, and has a hand size smaller than average, median or general US / EU population, has overwhelmingly voted with their pocket on the 4.7" Devices, and _not_ the previous 4" iPhone SE. Even During the iPhone 7, iPhone 8 era.

So I do suggest before people writing off 4.7" as being large, please try and give it a go first.

Another Point worth pointing out, once the tech for FaceID Shrinks to small enough or could be done under display, a 4.7" Edge to Edge Face ID Design would be _exactly_ the same size as the previous iPhone SE. I believe this could be the long term goal for Apple.

[1] [https://medium.com/@addyosmani/the-cost-of-javascript- in-201...](https://medium.com/@addyosmani/the-cost-of-javascript- in-2018-7d8950fbb5d4)

[2] [https://v8.dev/blog/cost-of-javascript-2019](https://v8.dev/blog/cost-of- javascript-2019)

[3] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahl%27s_law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahl%27s_law)

<comment><USER12> I'm not sure why you cite Japan as an outlier regarding size preferences and smaller-than-average hand sizes, which I generally do not believe to be true and could not find any hard data to cite (source: I live there).

Regardless, the iPhone SE did not sell _as_ well in Japan due to a variety of factors, not the least of which being that the iPhone 7 introduced built-in Suica support.

Suica is a mobile cash card technology used at stations for transit, convenience stores and restaurants for purchasing, and vending machines -- among others. Given the lack of support by many credit cards for Apply Pay in Japan (for example, you cannot add a Visa card to your iPhone due to JP- specific Visa restrictions), it's no surprise that this was a major selling point of newer models.

In my opinion, manufacturers have not provided a high-end, small form factor device to sufficiently test the markets. Without doing so, it's too easy for people to make the claim that people have already voted with their wallets for larger phones. I sincerely hope the rumors of a 5.4" iPhone 12 are true (as it should be somewhere between iPhone 5 and 6 form factors, from what I gather).

<comment><USER13> In my time abroad in Japan, I found that bringing a small bag was almost an imperative compared to the US where it still seems taboo. This relaxes the pocketability constraint so bringing a larger phone isn't as big of a deal.

<comment><USER14> What? Why is it taboo to have a bag for your stuff?

<comment><USER15> It's not cool and many people prefer to be like everyone rather than using what's convenient for them.

For example using short dress for men probably is more convenient as it allows better cooling for their genitalia which is important for reproductive function and generally for health. Yet outside of Scotland dresses are not considered an appropriate for men and nobody even dares to use them.

<comment><USER16> Nobody in Scotland wears them either TBH! It's cold up there.

<comment><USER17> Some would say drafty. Especially without underwear.

<comment><USER16> A good kilt is heavy and warm and if you wear one to a social gathering, it's a hot thing to wear. But wearing it outside is a brave thing to do, particularly in the damp cold air of autumn/winter.

Probably why they have long socks/hose to stop your legs freezing.

<comment><USER17> What sort of low temperature is a kilt still comfortable outside without long socks etc?

<comment><USER16> I am not brave enough to try it. I am not sure where you are but the UK has a lot of moisture in the air so low temperatures feel a lot colder than equivalent temperatures elsewhere in the world. eg. a 5°C day will feel a lot colder here than Iceland.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Yes. I'm an Android user who is absolutely sick of phablets. I have a Pixel 3A (5.6") and it is way, way too big. I've been quite excited about this iPhone SE announcement. However, the lack of a headphone jack is a huge negative, and 4.7" is the absolute largest I think is reasonable. A little smaller would've been ideal. I'm undecided on whether to switch to the SE, but I genuinely hope it sells like crazy. Then maybe the Android copycat manufacturers like Google will copy the small form factor, but add in a headphone jack. One can dream...

<comment><USER19> My current phone has no headphone jack and it's been an absolute pain the whole time. Adapters are hit-or-miss and generally suck. Even high-end devices (mine was over $800) often have hissing due to the analog signal running fractions of a millimeter from a bunch of digital signals.

Adding insult to injury, music objectively sucks with bluetooth. A good DAC takes space and power. Multiple drivers take space and power. Bluetooth modems require space and power and generate interference simply because they are modems. When you try to shove all of that inside a tiny earphone, there are going to be massive tradeoffs.

<comment><USER20> Comments like this always make me really glad that I've never tried "good" audio equipment. I think music sounds great with my Sony XM3s and even my AirPods, and I don't have to travel with a DAC to experience it. _shrug_

<comment><USER21> On one hand you avoid frustration, on the other hand you miss out on greater enjoyment.

<comment><USER20> I think I'd mentally adjust to the improved quality as the "new normal" pretty quickly and not get much out of it thereafter, leaving only the frustration when I couldn't have my audiophile quality. Seems like there's very little upside in it for me personally. I don't doubt that some people can genuinely sustain additional enjoyment out of it though.

<comment><USER22> I've noticed this trait with myself in a number of other aspects (operating system--no way I'm going back to Windows after having used Linux for years!), but luckily I haven't been spoiled by other people's good audio equipment yet.

If you haven't gotten into high-end audio already, I'm guessing you're not the type who "listens to equipment" as opposed to listening to music. So long as you're paying more attention to the music than the minute differences between exponentially more expensive pairs of headphones (or DACs and amps), you're probably not going to have the problem you're afraid of. I can rarely hear the difference between my midrange Sony wireless headphones and my friend's super fancy open-back headphones when there's an equalizer profile applied to each to make them sound similar.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> "Popular design"? On the contrary. As an iPhone SE owner, this is exactly the form factor that fans of the iPhone 4/5 series (like me) rejected as being too large.

<comment><USER23> The most perplexing part has always been the positioning of the SE as the low- price iPhone.

As an SE fan, I would happily, HAPPILY pay $1000 every two years to keep getting upgraded internals in the current form factor.

Yes Apple, I'm sure it's harder to fit those parts in a smaller case. That's why you should charge me more!

It's not a matter of Ludditry. That form factor is ergonomically ideal for a certain kind of phone use. That's precisely why it was so successful for so long.

<comment><USER24> I have a conspiracy theory that Apple redesigns the form factor every few years so that the "gotta have it" people are forced to upgrade to the latest and greatest device, and those with last gen's model feel that they need to keep up with the Joneses.

edit: I think this is a very real, but subconscious aspect of Apple culture and it exists across all of the product lines. Phones just happen to be one of their biggest products.

<comment><USER25> Cars were like this when they were the conspicious consumption item of choice. Every year, new designs. Not always better, but forever permutation so old parts don't fit and so that the 2 year old models already looked 'dated'. Now we have phones as our way to show our buying power.

<comment><USER26> This is also the entire model of the fashion industry.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> As a current iPhone SE user, here's my assessment:

Pros:

* Feature set in terms of processor, camera, etc., is exactly what I want

* Continued presence of Touch ID is a huge plus, I don't like Face ID

* Price point is, admittedly, fantastic

Cons:

* Lack of headphone jack is still unacceptable

* Form factor is, candidly, still too big for my tiny hands

* Color schemes aren't as nice as the SE's (can I contribute to COVID-19 research without getting a bright red phone?)

I will be considering this phone, but skeptically. Would be ideal for me to be able to physically hold one before buying, but not sure that'll be possible (maybe I can borrow somebody's iPhone 8).

<comment><USER28> > Lack of headphone jack is still unacceptable

I think I'm in the minority, but I haven't really missed the headphone jack in my iPhone 11. I have the Echo earbuds, and those have been good to great for my use cases.

This continues to feel a bit like the 3.5 floppy and CD-ROM removals from the Mac: a lot of people hated it, until it was a nonissue.

<comment><USER29> > I think I'm in the minority, but I haven't really missed the headphone jack > in my iPhone 11

You don't miss it until you do. When you are trying to join a meeting and your bluetooth headset absolutely refuses to work (and yes, even the fancy Airpods Pro do that occasionally), you wish you had the ability to just plug in an old-fashioned, analog headset. Which you can pull easily, with no fuss, from many devices, including computers and gaming consoles. Quick, no pairing required. No battery issues.

Analog headphones are also very cheap(good if you are not in a rich country), and will always be cheaper than bluetooth headphones, as there is minimal hardware required. You can quickly pick one up even from a shady street seller and you know it will work(longevity might suffer, but again, cheap).

The only problem with the headphone jack is that it is a very old standard. It's big connector, and takes significant real state inside a phone.

<comment><USER30> > The only problem with the headphone jack is that it is a very old standard. > It's big connector, and takes significant real state inside a phone.

The 2020 iPhone SE is much bigger than the 2016 iPhone SE and almost 50 % heavier. This argument seems invalid to me.

<comment><USER31> It is thinner, though, with more hardware inside of it.

<comment><USER32> The thicker 16 SE actually felt more comfortable than these thinner phones. And this is from someone who went SE to 11 pro.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> An upgraded iPhone 8 with a starting storage of 64 Gb at only $399. Seems like a great deal. Makes me seriously consider this model for my next phone instead of spending $1200 on an iPhone 11 Max.

<comment><USER34> A while ago I quit buying new models and switched to refurbished ones. The 7 I had did more or less what its predecessor did (car services, chat, remote camera control) and the one I have now (X or Xs?) does more or less what the 7 did.

I can afford the newer ones, but I don't see the value relative to the four- figure cost.

<comment><USER35> When I got my XS ($1000) it was because I planned to keep it for a long time. It's been a year and a half and I have zero complaints of degradation in speed, battery life, etc. Still feels like new. I plan on keeping it for four years at least. Compare that to the $500 phones of the past that would limp across the two-year mark and it's really not unreasonable.

<comment><USER36> I don't think this is the comparison that you're drawing, but I'd like to point out that my current iPhone SE has been doing well for three years (other than a battery replacement), and I think it has at least one more year left in it. So it's not just the top-end phones that have staying power.

<comment><USER35> That's fair, though I'd think refurbished phones won't do quite as well, but who knows

<comment><USER37> That depends a lot on what's meant by "refurb". I've had some that had had a screen and battery replacement, and they work and last like new, as they should. I've also had some that were sold as "refurbished" despite having had, at most, a wipe down with Windex to get the fingerprints off. Those don't do so well, but if you're handy, you can do your own refurbs with $80 in parts and an hour or so of work, and get the same like-new result modulo whatever damage exists to the case.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> If the new one would have kept the design of the old one but added a full screen and updated cameras - that would have been perfect.

I get the feeling that I'm part of a large niche with whom the old iPhoneSE saw success by accident.

<comment><USER39> The new iPhone 12 Pro is supposed to have a smaller screen than the 11 Pro and have squared sides, which basically means it will be shaped like the original SE, have a full screen, and the best cameras. Except for the price, the exact phone you want will probably be out later this year.

<comment><USER40> > shaped like the original SE

But bigger, right?

<comment><USER39> Yes, but it will be smaller than the 6/7/8 line. The overall dimensions haven't been leaked, but a 5.4" screen is 93% the size of the 5.8" on the 11 Pro. If we scale the outer dimensions by the same amount, the 12 Pro should be 133.8x66.4 mm, which is in between the original SE and the 6/7/8 lineup.

Edit: after re-reading the leaks, it seems like the vanilla 12 is getting the smaller screen and not the Pro. So maybe we won't have a smaller phone with square sides.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> Like many here I prefer the (original) iPhone SE due to the small size. Rumors of the iPhone 12 say that there will be a smaller model with a 5.4" edge-to- edge screen. I wanted to see how the size of that device would compare to the SE.

If we assume that the iPhone 12 would have the same aspect ratio as the iPhone 11, and that the "margins" between the edge of the device and the edge of the screen will be the same as well, we get:

       iPhone 12 (5.4") is 2.69x5.30"
       Body size is 26.67% larger than the iPhone SE
       Screen size is 62.27% larger than the iPhone SE

That is only 1.3% smaller than the iPhone SE 2 released today. This device size is here to stay.

<comment><USER42> They could fit a 5" screen on the SE form factor if it was edge-to-edge like the iPhone X, or keep the old SE 4" screen, make _that_ edge-to-edge, and make the phone itself even smaller.

Shown to scale: [https://imgur.com/OKZiWrN](https://imgur.com/OKZiWrN)

I'm a bit disappointed but not surprised they took neither of those options for the new SE.

<comment><USER31> Of course, there's no way they're going to call it the iPhone SEX.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> > The first iPhone SE was a hit with many customers who loved its unique > combination of small size, high-end performance and affordable price; the > new second-generation iPhone SE builds on that great idea and improves on it > in every way.

Customers loved how it was both small and powerful, so we've improved it by making it much larger...[1]

OK, I realise they mean "small compared to the ridiculous size of other phones" here, but I still feel like they've missed the point. They could have had the _only_ truly small and powerful phone on the market in 2020, on any OS! No competitors. They could have even kept the exact same old SE size and had an even bigger screen (5") if they went edge-to-edge.

[1] [https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?device1=iphoneSE&devic...](https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?device1=iphoneSE&device2=iphoneSE2ndgen&device3=iphoneX)

<comment><USER43> They just don't get it. This isn't a replacement for the SE, because it doesn't actually improve on the things SE owners cared about improving. Things like an edge-to-edge screen and a kick-ass camera in the same form factor, not an iPhone 7 reboot with wireless charging and a faster CPU. What's more, I know I'm not alone in saying I'd be willing to pay MORE for an ultra-premium small device like that than for any of the iPhone models being pushed as "top of the line" right now, because there are no good alternatives. Unfortunate letdown by the individuals at Apple who put this together, reminds me of the '97 Malibu.

<comment><USER44> Maybe us consumers underestimate how much space those internals take? The larger screen to body ratio would not only take more space in an already tiny phone, but the battery needed to power that would also need to be larger. The old SE had a 1600mAH battery... which is half of the 3000mAh+ even smaller phones have these days, and none of those lasts more than one full day.

So we somehow expect them to take the exact same form factor and somehow magically get a 10% larger screen and 50% larger battery in there? My guess is that it's just not physically possible to achieve that. Big chin and forehead is the best we can get with the current battery technology for a phone that size.

<comment><USER42> They could always make it X% thicker. We used to fit 15mm thick phones in our pockets with no trouble in the old days. Not to say you're not making a fair point. Although if it came down to it, I'd still much rather have the old size even if it still had a 4" non-edge-to-edge screen.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER45> RIP to Apple's single greatest design, the iPhone 5 form factor.

<comment><USER46> Maybe you should give an Xperia a shot? [https://www.theverge.com/2012/7/26/3189309/apple-sony- iphone...](https://www.theverge.com/2012/7/26/3189309/apple-sony-iphone- design-inspiration-iphone-4-looked-old)

I'm only halfway joking since looking at their newest handset is still fairly reminiscent with the flat edges: [https://www.sony.com/electronics/smartphones/xperia-1m2?cpin...](https://www.sony.com/electronics/smartphones/xperia-1m2?cpint=XPERIA-1M2)

<comment><USER47> The cost of switching ecosystems is too high for most of us. Loss of iMessage alone is a non starter for me personally.

<comment><USER48> Me too. iMessage is the one and only reason why I switched to an iPhone. My family demanded it, because the picture/video quality in our group chats was degraded for everyone because one group chat member (me) had an Android.

I got an SE. And now I'm seriously glancing at this new SE. Size is fine for me.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER49> I use Pixel 4, and I absolutely hate not having a fingerprint sensor.

Cons:

* At night it doesn't work, because I am laying on the bed and half my face is covered.

* It doesn't work when I am not wearing my glasses. Annoying when I have just woken up or going to bed and want to check a quick notification.

* Sometimes it unlocks by itself even if I don't want it to.

For the headphone jack, I got a cheap USB-C ones and couldn't be happier. Bluetooth just doesn't work all the time. It sometimes refuses to pair for random reasons, specially if you paired it with something else, you can never be sure its charged enough, easy to forget it turned on and have the batteries depleted etc etc.

<comment><USER50> FaceID is so terrible. It's hard to imagine a company based out of sunny California invented an authentication system that requires you to remove your sunglasses. It also sucks in any bright environment like say... the beach. Which they don't have much of in California of course. When the ambient IR is too high the sensor can't see it's own tracking dots on your face so it can't build the 3D mesh to authenticate you. To make matters worse, FaceID also fails if you have a face mask on which is particularly relevant today.

<comment><USER51> How should Face ID work with a mask that covers half or more of your face? Doesn't that defeat the purpose?

<comment><USER49> Exactly. That's why having an under glass fingerprint sensor is such a good idea.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER52> I haven't felt like Apple has been making products for me recently until the Macbook Air release and now this. Sane price points, and the exact features I need. Not sure what changed over there, but I'm really impressed.

<comment><USER53> It's almost as if a major world event convinced Apple management to optimize their product line for consumers who have less money to spend on devices.

Not sure what could have caused that, though.

<comment><USER54> It seems unlikely this was the cause though, you don't design and manufacture a phone in 2 months.

Also there had been leaks for months now. See this leak from back in January. [https://m.gsmarena.com/updated_iphone_8_might_arrive_with_fa...](https://m.gsmarena.com/updated_iphone_8_might_arrive_with_face_id_bigger_screen- news-41022.php)

<comment><USER53> You certainly choose pricing within those two months.

<comment><USER55> This is the pricing people have been expecting for awhile.

<comment><USER53> That's a kind of vague assertion as I don't know to whom specifically you're referring as "people," but the same phone at 449 would be another 12% to margin so "in the same ballpark as what some people were hoping" is not the same as "pricing that the market anticipated."

Let's assume there was a speculated range. In a world with COVID-19 demand pressure and the speculated range is reasonably accurate, Apple is more likely to target the low end of that range than it would in a "normal" world.

I think people don't like the sarcastic nature of my earlier comment but that doesn't mean the underlying notion is wrong.

I find it hard to believe that Apple ignored reality and just priced the phone however it felt like doing prior to a major shift in their consumer base's economic habits.

<comment><USER55> I am not sure what you are saying, to be honest, since any price point above $400 would increase margin. If you're saying Apple seeks the highest margin possible, I don't agree - they aim for 39% and increase revenue by increasing component quality thus cost. Unlike, say, the HomePod, they aren't compromising this phone with an older chip to save money.

Apple analysts, tech reporters, and consumers who pay attention to phone prices were expecting the new SE to be the same price as the old SE. Although there was also a case to make for the SE directly replacing the 8 at $449, there's little evidence they were planning on that number.

If you are asking where the long-term price pressure on Apple would come from: it largely comes from India, where they need as cheap a phone as possible to break in without damaging their brand or resorting to a cheaper bill of materials.

But again, I am not sure if I understand your point. I would like to.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER56> I have to wonder if it's a marketing mistake to call this phone an SE. Most of the people I know who were sticking with the SE did so because they loved the small size and form factor. It seems that offering an upgraded iPhone 8 to those people is going to fall flat.

That said, this looks like a fantastic bargain. One of the best cameras and fastest chips on the market on a $400 phone with years and years of OS support.

And in my own opinion, a 4" screen is obsolete these days because app and mobile web design has moved on to larger devices. 5" is even starting to feel cramped on some apps like Google Maps.

</comment><comment><USER57> Why couldn't they have kept the flat sides of the 'current' SE... ? That form factor is still the best.

<comment><USER58> No doubt cheaper to reuse the existing iPhone 8 chassis. Probably a fair bit cheaper to manufacture at this point too.

</comment></comment><comment><USER59> This is not a small phone. It's almost the same size as the Google Pixel 4 which has a 5.7" display.

SE: 5.45" x 2.65" Pixel: 5.79" x 2.71"

<comment><USER60> It's not too bad. I'm a huge proponent of the one-handed phone after using a Nexus 5 for 6.5 years. I think there are two main contributors to one-handed usability: (1) volume of the chasis, with a particular focus on width and (2) screen size, with a particular focus on screen height.

In terms of (1), the SE is in line with the Nexus 5 (and actually less wide), whilst the Pixel 4 is slightly bigger in all dimensions:

      N5: 137.9 x 69.2 x 8.6 mm (5.43 x 2.72 x 0.34 in)
      SE: 138.4 x 67.3 x 7.3 mm (5.45 x 2.65 x 0.29 in)

In terms of (2), a 4.7" screen with a 16:9 ratio is far easier to reach the top corners of than on a 5.7" that's 19:9. Yes, there is a bit less bezel on the Pixel 4 but it'll still be very difficult to reach the top one-handed with the taller screen.

Specs source:

[N5] [https://www.gsmarena.com/lg_nexus_5-5705.php](https://www.gsmarena.com/lg_nexus_5-5705.php)

[SE] [https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_se_(2020)-10170.php](https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_se_\(2020\)-10170.php)

</comment></comment><comment><USER61> The old iPhone SE had two things that appealed to me (and anecdotally, that appealed to some of my friends):

1\. it was small-ish 2\. it had a headphone jack

Without those I don't see this as a viable followup product.

<comment><USER62> It's still viable for most people. Most people will be okay with the included pair of wired headphones.

<comment><USER63> I use my EarPods with headphone plug on a number of devices. The one with the Lightning connector is only useable with Apple devices, so this is again a vendor lockin. This has to stop.

<comment><USER64> I just bought a few lighting-to-3.5mm adapters and leave them permanently affixed to my various headphones. Seems like a simple fix, versus perpetually being upset that I can't use my headphones on my iPhone.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER65> Old iPhone SE:

123.8 mm (4.87 in) H

58.6 mm (2.31 in) W

7.6 mm (0.30 in) D

Mass 113 g (4.0 oz)

New iPhone SE:

Height: 5.45 inches (138.4 mm)

Width: 2.65 inches (67.3 mm)

Depth: 0.29 inch (7.3 mm)

Weight: 5.22 ounces (148 grams)

(Copy-pasted from various places on iPad, sorry about inconsistencies)

<comment><USER66> Thanks for sharing. Did a quick reformat:

      |</comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment>|
      |  Dimension |        Old         |        New         |
      |</comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment>|
      |  Height    | 4.87 in (123.8 mm) | 5.45 in (138.4 mm) |
      |  Width     | 2.31 in ( 58.6 mm) | 2.65 in ( 67.3 mm) |
      |  Thickness | 0.30 in (  7.6 mm) | 0.29 in (  7.3 mm) |
      |  Weight    | 4.00 oz (113.0 g)  | 5.22 oz (148.0 g)  |
      |</comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment></comment><comment>|

<comment><USER67> Look it's 300 micrometers thinner!

</comment></comment><comment><USER68> _eyes the specs_

 _eyes her 6s and the very nice earbuds that can still plug into it_

 _ponders other things she could do with $400_

I miss the Actually Small form factor but I've gotten used to the slightly larger 6s and I sure don't miss it four hundred bucks plus the cost of some bluetooth earbuds and having to hassle with keeping the bluetooth Square reader powered up the next time I sell stuff at a comics con.

I think this is a fine day to buy a new case to replace the one that I got along with the phone. It's been slowly falling apart and I'm worried it might not save the phone the next time I drop it. Twenty bucks for a black Speck and ten bucks for a gold accent Popsocket. Sounds good.

<comment><USER69> You also get tap payments with the Bluetooth square reader which is much more seamless of an experience for the customer.

<comment><USER68> You are forgetting the seam where it goes to sleep after a while when it's not being used every few minutes, and needs to be reconnected while the customer is waiting. In a crowded convention hall full of thousands of other vendors doing the same thing.

Oh, and the seam where if you _do_ get it to connect to your phone, you then have both your phone _and_ the customer's phone fighting to get a connection to a tower saturated by people sharing their con photos/videos, streaming, and trying to process credit card transactions. It's bad enough with _one_ phone trying to authorize the transaction.

Also the seam where it's one more damn thing to run out of power when you are at a table with nowhere to plug in because you are not gonna be moving enough stuff to be worth paying a couple hundred extra for the power fees unless you are a small press with the work of a dozen or so creators on your table.

<comment><USER70> Please stop you're going to give me nightmares about waiting for the freight elevator parking to free up.

<comment><USER68> Ah, I see I am not the only person on this site who is familiar with these _pleasures_.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER71> According to this: [https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?device1=iphoneSE2ndgen...](https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?device1=iphoneSE2ndgen&device2=iphone8&device3=iphone6s)

This looks like basically the same phone as the 8 & the 6s. I own a 6s, I'm wondering what the advantage is to buying this phone rather than replacing the battery on my current phone.

Hilariously, some of the changes between models seem to be mostly renaming features.

        6s: HDR for photos
         8: Auto HDR for photos
        SE: Next-generation Smart HDR for photos

Looks like this one "goes to 11"

Also funny is battery life:

        SE: Lasts about the same as iPhone 8
         8: Lasts about the same as iPhone 7
         7: Lasts up to 2 hours longer than iPhone 6s
        6s: —

So the new SE lasts about the same as two hours longer than "—" Got it!

<comment><USER72> The A13 chip will be a huge upgrade and guarantee OS support for quite a while, even if a lot of the other specs are the same. If the 6S manages to survive getting OS updates this year, it probably won't next year.

And Apple usually goes for a target battery life that stays fairly consistent across generations. It creeps up slowly over time, but very slowly.

</comment></comment><comment><USER73> I am apparently in the minority here who prefers faceID, mostly because how transparent it is UX-wise. I don't have to do an additional 'Authenticate' press when opening protected apps, instead I pass through the security while the app loading animation completes.

Though, it has been hell now with using face masks for the past few weeks, where I have to spend 5 seconds on every auth-screen, where it tries faceID twice and then gives the option of PIN authentication.

<comment><USER74> A lot of people complain that Face ID doesn't work when they wear skiing gear or a mask. I'd argue that most humans can't identify me when I wear a mask, so it's a bit hard to expect my phone to do better.

I do prefer Face ID for almost everything except payments. Apple pay with Touch ID was a much better experience. The awkward double tap + stare at my phone for 2 seconds isn't great. Having an Apple Watch makes this much better but I do miss placing my phone near the reader and putting my finger on the sensor.

</comment></comment><comment><USER75> I don't really get the hate for the lack of a headphone jack tbh. Have people complaining about this ever really given good bluetooth headphones a chance? My Beats Solo 3 have fantastic battery life, i can switch between devices with a click of a button (in the case of the Bose QC35 even be connected to two devices at the same time, listening to music on the laptop while being able to receive phone calls on the phone) and the sound quality is absolutely fine. Sure, an audiophile DAC with high end headphones will have better sound quality, but do you really need that on a phone?

<comment><USER42> I don't know about everyone else but I sometimes use a 3.5mm to RCA cable to play music from the phone through a stereo.

<comment><USER76> Same, except my stereo has a 3.5mm in.

I have several pairs of Bluetooth headphones but still use the 3.5mm jack on my SE all the time, and I use a 3.5mm lightning adapter with my iPad Pro.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER77> One of the biggest advantages of the first gen SE (aside from size) was its sub 120g weight - my SO has one and even with the protective case it's very easy on the hands - especially when lying down and holding it in the air.

The current gen weights almost as much as my Galaxy S8, which is objectively a rather heavy object to be held for extended periods of time.

All in all I was meaning to get her one once it's released, but given the weight of the device that won't happen.

</comment><comment><USER78> Quick comment about sizes and popularity. This is the size of the iPhone 6/6S/7/8 form factor. There are a LOT of iPhone models of this type.

They're bigger than the old SE, but effectively a fair bit smaller than the X/XS/11 Pro format, which has a much larger screen to manage.

So, this phone gives those of us who liked the 8 body size an upgrade path.

David Smith compiled iPhone usage stats for his app. The iPhone 6/6S/7/8 had 47% share. The iPhone 5s/old SE had 11% share. The X/XS/11 Pro size had 12% share. So, this new SE is an _extremely_ common and and popular design.

[https://david-smith.org/blog/2019/06/24/the-popularity-of- th...](https://david-smith.org/blog/2019/06/24/the-popularity-of- the-4-dot-7-inch-iphone/)

<comment><USER79> I guess you are really comparing screen sizes ?

The physical size of the 8 and this new SE is pretty much the same as the X/11 Pro (it's only smaller 5~6mm in height, 4mm in width, 0.4~8 mm in depth). If you were holding up on your 8 because of that, I'd say you can fork the 1000+ bucks for the X or 11 Pro, it will be an upgrade in every dimension except Touch ID disappearing.

<comment><USER78> Yup, screen sizes. The 11 pro form factor has a lot more screen dimensions to cover when using one handed.

It's also a lot heavier.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER80> Quick size comparison of the two generations -- [https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?device1=iphoneSE&devic...](https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?device1=iphoneSE&device2=iphoneSE2ndgen)

</comment><comment><USER81> As a son, I am sad that my mom will not get to have her preferred screen size (4") in her next phone.

As a developer, I'm ecstatic that I'll never have to think about supporting a tiny 4" screen again.

<comment><USER82> I'd assume this new SE, like the 6, 6S, 7, and 8 before it, will continue to prompt users during the initial out-of-box setup process if they want to run their display in "zoomed-in" mode, making the resolution effectively identical to the 4" screen of the older smaller phones.

This is effectively an accessibility feature, but Apple proactively prompts users to enable it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER83> How come that the "white" variant is not "white" on the front side? Like it has always been the case until iPhone 8?

This is a huge disappointment for me. The big reason to have white screen borders is to reduce contrast to light screen backgrounds, which is so much easier on the eyes when reading. And also, white front side is a design classic. Its removal is even a reason for me not to buy the new SE2.

<comment><USER84> I was wondering the same thing. I'm glad I'm not the only one.

Plus, the white front would have made it look much more elegant IMO.

<comment><USER83> I am also glad to hear that. Yes, I totally agree that white is much more elegant.

Maybe this outcome is an effect of Johnathan Ive's departure?

<comment><USER84> It could be. I don't know who designs the iPhones these days, although Jony Ive is claimed to still count Apple as a client of his new company. I don't know if his heart is.

One thing is certain to me, the black front makes the white version incomplete, and noticeably so, as if someone was inching towards "perfection", but then gave up.

I'm still sporting the white iPhone 7, btw.

<comment><USER83> Yes, I think you depict it well. Stopping just before the mountain peak. Sadly, the black front seems to be the new thing since the iPhone X.

Maybe someone will manage to switch out the new SE's black front with a white iPhone 8 front :-)

(still enjoying the classic SE in white here, along with several white iPads)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER85> Now why can't we convince Android OEMs that decent specs in a small design is a worthwhile endeavor? The Sony Xperia XZ1 Compact is the last one that comes to mind.

<comment><USER45> There's plenty of decent small Android phones. The problem is that they run Android.

<comment><USER18> No, there really aren't. Trust me, I spent days researching this and ended up with the Pixel 3A phablet that I hate. There are exactly zero decent Android phones <= 4.7".

<comment><USER86> And in the past year, there were precisely 2 Android phones with <= 4.7" screens. Lava Z40 and BLU Advance L5. There were zero that were as narrow as the original SE.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER87> I am a die-hard SE owner, so I guess _this_ is something, but...

Camera is sticking out.

Edges are over-bevelled.

But at least they kept Touch ID.

</comment><comment><USER88> Original SE user here (and I have a spare sitting unwrapped on my bookshelf as a backup):

I'm disappointed by the lack of a headphone jack and the size, while better than the phablet nonsense, is still bigger than I would like.

I'm actually not sure what I will do after these phones go kaput, I only use my phone for calls, music, Whatsapp, and maybe maps (though with travel completely halted for the medium term, I don't even need that). If there was a feature phone version of Whatsapp, I'd probably go back to one of those.

<comment><USER22> WhatsApp runs on KaiOS feature phones, which are marketed to developing countries. Google Maps and YouTube also have official support: [https://www.kaiostech.com/explore/apps/](https://www.kaiostech.com/explore/apps/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER89> Glad to see a non faceID option. I'm on an 11 Pro currently, will probably sidegrade to this.

FaceID is incredibly unreliable in my opinion, and it almost always takes more time that touchID did. Furthermore, "Reachability" (the feature where you slide the UI down for easy access with one hand) is _much_ more difficult to access and dismiss with no home button. It's rare I don't accidentally invoke some UI action when trying to dismiss reachability mode (mistakes include: dialing additional numbers, super-linking on tinder, clicking on links in websites, etc.)

Apple seems to know this, the store workers I spoke with when I was purchasing the phone admitted it was difficult to use.

Is it rose colored glasses, or would old Apple never release products that the Apple Store workers have to tell you are "difficult to use"?

<comment><USER90> Repeating myself here but for me FaceID actually does feel like an improvement, despite my many doubts about it in the beginning.

Yes there are some occasions where it doesn't work well (when you're trying to unlock the phone without looking at it properly) but there are also many occasions where it works much better. Most of the time my phone now unlocks so smoothly that I don't even realise it was locked. I just take it out of my pocket, swipe up and I'm on my home screen.

Agreed on reachability though, that has never worked well for me either. I just avoid using it now.

<comment><USER89> If there were a quick way to switch over to pin input, and furthermore the pin input would constantly be looking for your face rather than needing to switch out of pin mode to try for faceid, it might be okay.

Two situations make faceid unusable:

1\. I'm in bed and bedding materials occlude my face.

2\. I'm using my hair to purposefully occlude my face in areas with public surveillance

In both of these situations touching the home button would be much easier.

<comment><USER91> Do you actually cover your face when around public cameras.

<comment><USER89> When I'm feeling particularly pessimistic yes. More as a statement than real protection though. Gait analysis has all screwed anyways, but there is value in requiring more expensive systems to be tracked. Delay the inevitable.

See [https://cvdazzle.com/](https://cvdazzle.com/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER92> As an iPhone 5, 5s & SE user; pass, its too big.

Apple still doesn't understand why users like me still stick with iphone SE - the size.

</comment><comment><USER93> 80% of the way to a iPhone 11 Pro for 40% of the price.

<comment><USER94> That 80% is arguable. But probably 90%+ of the people buying the SE wouldn't have bought the 11 Pro anyway.

</comment></comment><comment><USER95> I care about absolutely none of this except weight, which they're not announcing. What a mockery of a successor to the SE name. I guess I'll hold on to my current SE until that's absolutely untenable and then abandon the iOS platform - really hope there's some more secure Android option by then.

<comment><USER83> weight: 148g

</comment></comment><comment><USER96> A $300 (EUR500) phone in 2020, and its screen resolution is 750 x 1334 (according to GSMArena, because Apple doesn't mention it). Sadly, that's not enough to watch FullHD videos. An attractive form-factor aside, weird resolution of the lower-tier iPhones (XR, 11, SE 2020) is a non-starter for me.

<comment> globular-toast It's a small screen and that's a normal resolution. You need to look at pixel size, not number of pixels. You wouldn't be able to see "full HD" detail on a 4.7" screen.

<comment><USER96> I use a 5.1" screen, and I can see the difference very well. I also watch a lot of FullHD screencasts, and while the phone screen is too small to do read everything, most of the text is still readable. The trick is to watch the original 1080p video.

The problem of the in-between resolutions is blurriness introduced by scaling. 1080p content is very common, text rendered to such images is already rasterized to take advantage of that resolution. iPhone has to downscale 1080 lines and to 750 lines, the scaling factor is 0.6944. There is no way that the text will remain sharp and readable. So the text in most videos will not only be a bit smaller (that's physical screen size, 4.7 vs 5.whatever), but it will be blurrier. Low cost 720p screens have the same problem, but at least the scaling coefficient (2/3) allows for sharper result.

The problem is particularly evident with text, but it applies to all minor details

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER97> I've been repairing an old iPhone SE for quite a while now, holding out for Apple to listen to customers like me saying "I want a decent phone that fits in my pocket." This makes me so happy, just like when I held onto a 2015 macbook pro until they went back to a "regular" keyboard.

<comment><USER98> > customers like me saying "I want a decent phone that fits in my pocket."

This new one is exactly the same size as the 6, 7, and 8 that have been available for years...what about it has changed the situation for you?

<comment><USER97> I guess I missed that. Seeing the 4.7 inch screen spec made me think it was smaller than Apple's other current phones, closer to the original SE.

Original SE:

123.8 mm (4.87 in) H

58.6 mm (2.31 in) W

7.6 mm (0.30 in) D

New 2020 SE:

138.4 mm (5.45 in) H

67.3 mm (2.65 in) W

7.3 mm (0.29 in) D

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER99> I guess the size escalation is just like with cars. It seems "nobody" wants smaller phones or cars, so every time there's a new model they get bigger.

As a person who does actually prefer smaller phones and cars, it's a disappointing trend. "Buy used" or "deal with it", I suppose.

</comment><comment><USER100> The 5/5s/SE form factor is beautiful. Why mess with it? Give me upgraded internals on that and I'll buy it immediately. It feels a bit like they have to justify to themselves that they're doing work by proverbially and literally smoothing out the edges until all phones just look alike.

</comment><comment><USER101> Too large. Does anybody know a modern Android phone with the size of the IPhone 5?

<comment><USER102> The smallest one I've found that's usable is Sony Xperia XZ1 compact. It's a late 2017 phone. But it's around the same size.

</comment></comment><comment><USER103> As an iPhone SE user, I am sympathetic to those who miss its screen size. However, as someone who also remembers how desperate the market was for an iPhone with larger real estate around the 5/5S/5C era, and how evolutionary the iPhone 6 was when it came out, I am fine with it being a compromise size.

I also understand that last year's X-cessively large phones have conditioned users to be resigned towards huge pricy devices, thus making this new SE more dramatic-seeming.

</comment><comment><USER104> If you're an Android user looking for a small phone, I feel your pain.

I've had one of these for about 6 months and I absolutely love it.

[https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KP8J8YN](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KP8J8YN)

Disclaimer: I have NO affiliation with this company at all. I'm just a happy user.

Pros:

\- built-in rugged case. I've thrown it around the office with no issues

\- incredibly small. It fits in the watch pocket (fifth pocket) of your jeans comfortably

\- waterproof. Because it fits in my jeans pockets so well, I accidentally washed it with my jeans after a spill. The only piece of clothing in that wash cycle was my jeans, and the phone fell out at some point. It must have banged around in there for 15 minutes; but after the wash was done, I grabbed the phone and unlocked it with my fingerprint. No worries.

\- some of the best BT and GPS I've experienced in an Android phone. (And I've owned Nokia, Motorola, and Sony Xperia phones).

\- reasonable battery life for a phone of this size

\- everyone tells me speakerphone sounds great

Cons:

\- the camera is literally a potato. Don't buy this to take photos with.

\- good luck typing on this incredibly tiny screen. But instead I use Android's voice-to-text which works great.

I took a chance and it is an absolute marvel.

<comment><USER105> How often do you have to charge it?

</comment></comment><comment><USER106> I'm on a three year old iPhone SE that I recently had the battery replaced in (An incredible use of $50 if anyone is fining their phone dying all the time)

I am really tempted to get this. I love the small form factor of my SE but I have large hands and the bigger screen might be a bit nice, and I really wish the camera was bit nicer on my current SE

<comment><USER107> The SE is great but my battery is quite bad now and as soon as it gets below room temperature, the battery drops from 50% to 10% and then starts turning off.

Probably will be changing the battery and keeping my current SE, the new one is not the same form factor. Agreed on the camera.

<comment><USER106> Yep thats what happened with mine. i sent it back to Apple and had the battery replaced. I tried to make an appointment at the apple store but it said it wasn't available, maybe they don't have the parts for them in store.

Truly a night and day difference. When I leave for the day I don't have to think about bringing my charger (although I still do sometimes in case of an emergency)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER108> I really wanted a phone with a current top level camera, and a reasonably quick cpu as in a modern iPhone or Android. I consider the iphone7/8 to be almost too big for one handed use, but it's it's worth it as a tradeoff for the improved readability. The problems with the iphone7/8 size is mostly poor legacy UX (Nothing should have to be clicked in basic, navigation above the middle of the screen!).

I basically _had_ to upgrade from iPhone7 to iPhone11 to get a good camera in an iPhone. The 11 is a phone that is both much larger and much more expensive than I would like. So if the camera on this is as good as the main iPhone 11 camera, I would definnitely have gone for this one instead, had it been available 6 months ago.

This is apple cannibalizing their own iPhone11 sales, a _lot_ I think

</comment><comment><USER109> This is just an iPhone 8 mk II (it even fits 8 cases!), and that means those of us who want an actual SE replacement are now out of luck. Rather disappointing.

</comment><comment><USER110> Devastated they increased the size, but saw it coming. It's the same as an iPhone 8, which is too big.

<comment><USER111> I loved the SE, but now am on an 8 after it broke. TBH I adjusted pretty quickly. It is a bit unstable to hold at times, but I rarely notice it. And just as often I wish I had more screen real-estate such as to fit a PDF on screen. :shrug: trade-offs.

</comment></comment><comment><USER112> They rereleased the iPhone 6. What's there to be excited about?

This has nothing on the original SE.

<comment><USER113> It has upgraded internals, no? So it's the iPhone 6 with some beefier insides, just like the original SE.

But yes, it has nothing on the original SE, since it has the same size as the iPhone 8...

</comment></comment><comment><USER114> This is pretty much a flagship at below mid range price. It's like One Plus and Apple just switched sides on this one.

</comment><comment><USER115> For anyone on the fence about trusting Apple's sell on privacy, I urge you to check out these pages;

[https://apple.com/privacy](https://apple.com/privacy) this isn't the Privacy Policy, just a very high level overview of investments/innovations (ETA 20-60 seconds)

[https://apple.com/privacy/features](https://apple.com/privacy/features) deeper dive, no cute graphics, links to papers (3+ minutes)

They really, really messed up by not being upfront with Siri's contractors, and they are not taking a hard stance on E2E iCloud Photos/Backups.

You can back up yourself using the native encrypted backup format using the CLI on Linux/Windows/macOS using [https://libimobiledevive.org](https://libimobiledevive.org) idevicebackup2

Using ifuse from them too you can read the SQLite database the Photos app uses, see things like the on-device processed metadata (including recognized faces, tho obviously not the face data from FaceID).

Using this I made a script to only transfer only favourited photos for my girlfriend; [https://gist.github.com/aurorabbit/592bbc76df317f86c1a6ef64c...](https://gist.github.com/aurorabbit/592bbc76df317f86c1a6ef64cc21244d) (will work on linux too, surely Windows but idk powershell)

/info dump

</comment><comment> green-bottle Due to the planned obsolescence (via stoppage of security updates) of Android phones within 2 years I had been seriously been considering buying an iPhone SE2.

But I can't really justify myself buying it at the hefty price tag of $555 in India. (The extra $155 being added due to the high custom duties on imports in India.)

Salaries (at least for software developers) here being 1/4th of that of US developer salaries or lesser makes even the $400 price in US not quite easy to digest.

It seems I will be stuck with buying an Android One phone instead.

<comment><USER116> Whenever the COVID-19 travel bans are eased in different countries, you could ask someone to get it for you from the US (if you know someone, which may be an impediment). This phone is also sold in the US in an unlocked variant that can be used with any carrier.

</comment></comment><comment><USER117> Just a reminder that the terrific old 4" iPhone SE is still available refurbished on Amazon for about $100. Runs the current OS and all apps. Camera sucks by modern standards.

</comment><comment><USER118> The most interesting aspect of the phone for me is that it looks to have the 16:9 ratio that's been abandoned industry-wide for 19:9, which I find to be extremely narrow.

I'm still holding on to my 4-year old Galaxy S7 because it's 5-inch, 16:9 display is just the right size. I have a newer 19:9 phone and even with fairly large man-hands, I struggle to reach the corners of the screen with my thumb, which is where most menu items are located.

</comment><comment><USER119> You can get iPhone 6s for $100 from cellular carriers such as AT&T: [https://www.att.com/buy/prepaid- phones/browse/apple/](https://www.att.com/buy/prepaid-phones/browse/apple/)

I am sure the new iPhone SE has more advanced everything but if you're just using it for text messages, occasional photo and Whatsapp you'll hardly notice any difference.

<comment><USER120> What about 3 years from now? It doesn't make sense to stick with the 6s for much longer, and I'm speaking as a current 6s user.

<comment><USER119> I am currently using the original iPhone SE and for my purposes it works just fine. I use it for texting, Google Maps, checking stock prices, occasional photo/movie, email, WhatsApp, bank apps, NYTimes app, Apple Pay. I had the battery replaced last year and plan to use it for the next 3 years or until Apple adds a compelling new feature to the iPhone (which they haven't for several years). I dislike the newer iPhones because they are too big to be comfortable in my jeans pocket.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER121> A lot of people are looking at this as a "replacement" for the iPhone SE (original) - but I don't think that is what this is. It is the "upgrade" that iPhone 6/6s/7 users have been waiting for. People that don't want the relatively huge iPhone XR/11 (3/4" taller and 1/2" wider) and don't want to spend $1k on the more reasonably sized iPhone 11 Pro.

</comment><comment><USER122> People will get it or they won't, the HN crowd is probably a fairly small demographic compared to who Apple is trying to gear this towards: people who want an affordable, new iPhone.

For my part (SE user of 2 years, and before that a 5s user), this fits my needs pretty well, and it's got the latest hardware. The lack of a headphone jack was always going to happen, that's just the way of the world and nothing will change it - and realistically, carrying around a dongle really isn't a big deal if you're going to be carrying around your phone and earphones anyway, it's just another small piece to keep attached to your earphones on a semi-permanent basis. The 5s form factor would have been cool too, but that was also never going to happen, because the SE is released in no small part because there is a surplus of X device (previously 5s, now 8) and they need to move old stock.

I'll hang onto my SE until iOS 14 comes out, then I'll get a refurbished SE 2. I might be able to get away with getting an almost-new iPhone released this year for around AU$600, that would be cool.

<comment><USER123> > The lack of a headphone jack was always going to happen, that's just the way > of the world and nothing will change it

I just got a Galaxy s10e which has both a headphone jack and an SD card slot. I choose to purchase phones that have the things I need in a phone.

(If I were committed to the apple ecosystem, I'd get one of these new SEs because of the smaller form factor and lower price.)

<comment><USER122> What I mean is that new phones which have a headphone jack are the exception rather than the norm, and their number seems to be diminishing. Maybe if people voted with their wallets it would stop the development in this direction, but it seems like too few people are concerned with this issue (I'm one of them - it's just not going to turn me off a potential phone).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER124> No headphone jack and form factor > 4" it's a no-go for me..

I'm still on the 5S, my next one will be a SE 1 when my 5S blows up..

</comment><comment><USER125> Apple's side-by-side comparison shows that their new phone is essentially an iPhone 8 with a newer CPU.

[https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?device1=iphone8&device...](https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?device1=iphone8&device2=iphoneSE2ndgen&device3=iphoneSE)

<comment><USER126> iPhone 8: Lasts about the same as iPhone 7

iPhone SE (2nd gen): Lasts about the same as iPhone 8

Hahaha

</comment></comment><comment><USER127> Fingerprint Sensor = works with covid masks!

<comment><USER128> But not covid gloves ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

<comment><USER79> My 6S works surprisingly well with thin transparent gloves. They're white color, but it seems they're thin enough to expose the ridges.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER129> Better camera than the iPhone 8, supposedly same as the XR [0]

[0] [https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/15/21222104/iphone- se-2-came...](https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/15/21222104/iphone-se-2-camera- specs-apple-software-processor-smart-hdr)

</comment><comment><USER130> That's not really the SE I have in mind. My old SE has a 4" screen and the weight is around 100g ...

</comment><comment><USER131> Being a long-time Android user (not a fan, though) This is the first iPhone I'd actually buy. I'm tired of huge phones with no bezels, they're not usable. They are a pain in the ass, they are a literally a pain in your hand to use. I halso ahte the notch with passsion.

</comment><comment><USER132> No headphone jack?

<comment><USER133> Nope: [https://www.apple.com/iphone-se/specs/](https://www.apple.com/iphone- se/specs/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER134> So at my previous employer I kept separate work and personal phones. At my current employer I decided I wasn't going to do that. Who wants to carry two phones? Or pay for a personal service you barely use?

I'm fortunate enough that my work phone is (now) an iPhone 11 Pro. I routinely go to Australia for extended periods and need a phone there. For years (>5) I used the last personal phone I bought myself, the iPhone 6S, which was still doing quite well since ~2 years ago it had a free battery replacement.

But I finally decided to upgrade this. I like the 11 Pro (particularly the cameras) but I find the narrower screen a little annoying (compared to the previous work phone, the iPhone 7 Plus).

But damn phones are expensive now. I couldn't justify the almost $2000 for an iPhone 11 Pro Max and decided to spend "only" half that on an iPhone 11 instead. It lacks one of the cameras but it has a bigger screen than the 11. I really see no reason to spend the huge extra on the 11 Pro or Pro Max.

But by God do I hate Face ID (even more so on my iPad). It's horrible. Apple says the false positive rate on Touch ID was too high. I say the false negative rate on Face ID is too high and this is incredibly frustrating. Worse, Apple tries to make it more secure by forcing policies on you like 5 failed attempts means it asks for a passcode. Failed attempts include passive fails where you just haven't positioned the phone right.

I think Apple just got rid of Touch ID to have more screen area, honestly. That's not such a bad thing but what I'd give for an iPhone that had a fingerprint sensor on the back (like the Samsung Galaxy S9 did, which I also briefly used).

So the presence of Touch ID makes me almost want to buy one of these but I can't go back screen size wise. As an aside, I am tempted to get rid of my iPad Pro and replace it with the newer (non-Pro) iPad because those still do have Touch ID.

This really is an updated iPhone 8 with a modern CPU. It seems like a pretty good deal to me.

But please, Apple, give me a Touch ID option.

</comment><comment><USER135> Does anyone know if it includes ARKit? [https://developer.apple.com/documentation/arkit/tracking_and...](https://developer.apple.com/documentation/arkit/tracking_and_visualizing_faces)

<comment><USER136> Looks like it does support ARKit, source: [https://www.apple.com/ios/augmented- reality/](https://www.apple.com/ios/augmented-reality/) (bottom of the page)

</comment></comment><comment><USER137> Anyone else miss the 3:2 aspect ratio phones? If they made a device that handles like an iPhone 4S but with smaller bezels, chin, and forehead (and maybe slightly thinner, if they must), I figure that'd be a killer. Maybe it's less of an issue now that most of their apps seem to support navigation from the canvas rather than the top left corner of the screen (I don't know since I have only ever used iPhones for testing, and not recently), but it would be nice if an ordinary person could reach every part of the screen with a thumb without adjusting their grip.

Also this phone isn't even compact, whether they slap the SE label on it.

</comment><comment><USER138> Not really a big fan of the Lightning connector.

IMHO it's a poor design.

The socket on this iPhone 6S+ is wearing out because the springs are in the device and not the cable. It's hit and miss if the phone charges now.

(I keep it still because I want an iPhone with a 3.5mm headphone socket).

<comment><USER139> Well it's got wireless charging now so many people will essentially never use the Lightning connector ever.

<comment><USER138> It's slow though and somewhat inefficient compared to fast wired charging.

I really wish they would just upgrade the Lightning connector to the industry standard USB-C port that Apple thankfully use on everything else.

<comment><USER139> It's tricky though. I _don 't_ wish that, simply because I don't want to have to upgrade my Lightning-connector dock, speakers, pencil, HDMI dongle, charging cables, and I'm probably forgetting a couple more things. When customers have invested in an entire ecosystem around a connector type, we really don't want to change more often than every 20 years or so.

And I personally don't care if it takes 1 hour or 7 hours to charge wirelessly, I'm asleep. The times when I need to emergency-charge during the day I can still use the port though.

<comment><USER138> I feel your pain with regard to loosing the lightning connector. For me I guess I'd have to buy a new proprietary cable for my car.

The cost of replacing all your stuff is one of the consequences of buying things with proprietary connectors.

I have an Apple USB Superdrive. It looks great but was purposely designed only to work with a MacBook. No reason for that except to keep me in the "ecosystem".

Apple could release a Lightning to USB-C dongle for you. That would allow you to reuse your Lightning pencil ...if they wanted to.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER140> I'm still using an iPhone 8. It's been great and I wasn't looking for a replacement yet. However, it's nice to know that I can get one in the same size. I don't want a big phone. I was reading through some of the threads and found some arguments about Android. I'm a poweruser myself. I was on Android for a long time. I've used both mid range and high end Androids. All of them have died after 2 years max after slowing down terribly. Finally switched to the iPhone 8, two years ago and couldn't have been happier. I still have an old iPhone 5s that works like a charm.

</comment><comment><USER141> Bummer that this has the slippery rounded edges that started with the 6. My guess is that they're doing this because the iPhone 12 is rumored to return to more rectangular edges, and they want it to be visually distinct.

</comment><comment><USER142> $399 iPhone? Weird! I always thought Apple stayed out of that pricerange to keep the iPhone line a "prestige" purchase (especially given how little time the "c" lasted for). I suppose that's why this model has such an iPod-esque visual design, so that outside observers don't misconstrue the people using these with their "luxury" users.

It's good to see more downward pressure coming from flagship phones lately, imo. It's a great analog to the Pixel "a" models and an overall smartphone trend that I'm very positive about!

<comment><USER143> The iPhone 5C, my guess, was Apple's experiment with having a cheaper end phone and seeing how the market would react to that. With the original SE, they probably had a ton of left over iPhone 5 shells so they chose that because it just made sense to use them. My guess is this is the same reason why the new SE has the shell from the 7/8\. This also helps Apple cut down on price since they don't have to create new molds or re-engineer the interior much, which is probably how Apple is convincing themselves that they can still make their expected margins with a $399 price tag.

</comment></comment><comment><USER144> This is how you know the economy is bad, apple is releasing cheap phones

<comment><USER145> That, and and I bet the price of flagships being so high that people aren't trading in phones as often, which is undermining the used market.

<comment><USER53> Not to mention that common upgrade motivators like battery degradation and cracked display glass become less important when you are at home all day and you can plug in to a charger, watch TV, and browse the internet on your laptop or desktop.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER146> As current user of a Moto E5 Play, this is the first iPhone that I've been tempted to purchase. It delivers a lot of value at a reasonable price. As penny-pinching consumer, I've started thinking about device longevity. This phone will certainly be supported longer than any Android. However, my current phone still _works_ , even if the camera is bad and it can be quite slow at times. I can't justify purchasing a new device, especially one that was probably constructed with unethical labor.

<comment><USER147> Yup. I had to get off the hedonic treadmill of phone upgrades. The dopamine isn't worth it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER148> I own iPhone SE and let's be honest, this phone is designed for people living in warm climate, not someone living in nordic countries. If it's around zero degrees celius or less, then you better not take your phone out of your pocket. The battery will uncharge and phone will shut off(sometimes in matter of minutes). I thought there was something wrong with my iPhone, but it turns out the battery can't stand the cold.

\-- edit Otherwise I love iPhone SE. It's almost perfect.

</comment><comment><USER149> Is it weird that we're in 2020 and I still keep assuming that phones have a headphone jack by default... Until I check the spec sheet and realise there's no headphone jack :(

</comment><comment><USER150> Hooray, no notch! The only recent iPhone that is not ugly right now.

<comment><USER151> It doesn't have a notch, but the screen doesn't go edge to edge. I will take the notch any day, if that eliminates the top and bottom blocks.

<comment><USER152> > It doesn't have a notch, but the screen doesn't go edge to edge

Neither does the iPhone 11/Pro they have a very chunky bezel. I was shocked how clunky it actually looks when mine arrived.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER153> I use an iPhone SE and an iPhone 8 -- I got the 8 only because the SE's microphone crapped out. I was thinking of buying an 11 Pro, but now I think I'll buy the 2020 SE instead because it's smaller and has the A13.

(I was hoping against hope they'd use the old SE form factor, but I can understand why they don't.)

I wonder how much the new SE will cannibalize sales of the 11's, for customers who aren't price-sensitive but are size-sensitive?

</comment><comment><USER154> Is it known how much RAM this has?

<comment><USER155> 4gb

<comment><USER154> Is there a source for that? Can't find it anywhere.

<comment><USER155> I made the wrong assumption. It's 3GB: [https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_se_(2020)-10170.php](https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_se_\(2020\)-10170.php)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER156> Is there any word on the screen material? I have a Pixel 3a that for the most part I really like, but one of the ways I think they got the price down was by using a glass that was much less scratch-resistant. My original Pixel never scratched, the 3a is scuff up badly after just 6 months. My iPhone 7 is a couple of years old and also has no scratches, so I'm hoping for a similarly scratch-resistant screen.

</comment><comment><USER157> I actually like the "borders" on top and bottom, makes it easier to hold and use the phone.

That said, Apple is really taking the piss with these displays. Just like the iPhone 11, not only is the resolution laughable (Apple used to be a leader here, what happened?) but it's also IPS LCD, which uses more power and has worse viewing angles and colors.

OLEDs are excellent and competitors at this price point have them, so why not Apple?

</comment><comment><USER158> 4" size is truly dead then. What a shame.

I think we'll look at these comically large phones in the future like we look Gordon Gekko's phone today.

</comment><comment><USER159> Honestly as a parent of three children barrelling towards teen-dom cheaper iphones available and supported for the next few years sounds great.

</comment><comment><USER160> Wow, currently a single thread:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22878765](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22878765)

occupies the entire first page of these comments, with 367 replies. Is this optimal?

Edit: looks like this has fixed/modified, some of the replies have been broken out into top-level threads. Might be time for auto-collapsing of replies like Reddit.

</comment><comment><USER161> I got my iPhone SE (iPhone 7) on Amazon for $150 a couple months ago... It sadly replaced my (real) iPhone SE that took a dip in a pool.

</comment><comment><USER162> I love the size of my iPhone SE. Every time my partner uses my phone, they always mention how nice and compact the size is.

</comment><comment><USER163> They could of done so much more than slap an A13 into an iPhone 8. I guess it was about that the last time although, throwing a newer processor into an iPhone 5.

At the very least they could of done touch ID on the back and make it a hole punch display with a smaller form factor, but that would probably have battery issues from the smaller footprint.

</comment><comment><USER164> I didn't buy the SE because it was cheaper. I bought it because it had the best balance between performance and form factor.

</comment><comment><USER165> I love the iPhone 5 design - I wish they could have put a full screen Face ID display into that frame.

Maybe it wasn't possible with the space constraints, or maybe it would have been too expensive - but a premium small phone like that would have been really cool.

The iPhone 8 is probably my least favorite of all iPhone designs except for the 3G.

</comment><comment><USER166> I see this supports Quicktake video[0] when in Photo mode. Kinda useful, but how do you take bursts now?

0\. [https://support.apple.com/en- ca/guide/iphone/iph61f49e4bb/io...](https://support.apple.com/en- ca/guide/iphone/iph61f49e4bb/ios)

</comment><comment><USER167> I newer owned an iPhone and I'm not interested in iOS much, but $400 for a phone with Apple A13 CPU is very tempting.

I don't understand why other ARM CPU makers don't come up with comparable CPUs.

Paying 1000 euros on a phone and having a twice as weak CPU as an similar priced iPhone is not a nice sentiment for an Android user.

<comment><USER168> > I don't understand why other ARM CPU makers don't come up with comparable > CPUs.

This is like asking why other rocket companies don't just build rockets this year that are reusable like SpaceX's.

Apple's CPUs are so fast because they have the best internal engineering team on earth paired with the best Fab (TSMC 7nm) money can buy. They buy out the entire production run from that Fab. These CPUs are the most advanced and best designed in the world because they worked so hard to get here years ago.

It's like asking why other runners don't just run as a fast as Usain Bolt.

</comment></comment><comment><USER169> What is that app displayed here?

[https://www.apple.com/newsroom/images/product/iphone/standar...](https://www.apple.com/newsroom/images/product/iphone/standard/Apple_new- iphone-se-ar-screen_04152020_carousel.jpg.large.jpg)

<comment><USER170> Probably Reality Composer

[https://apps.apple.com/app/reality- composer/id1462358802](https://apps.apple.com/app/reality- composer/id1462358802)

</comment></comment><comment><USER171> I have the latest iphone, but only because I switched carriers and got a good deal. FaceID is fine, but touch ID was way way better... but why don't they put it on the back of the phone like Android phones do? It's so much easier to use it and then you don't have those huge bezels.

</comment><comment><USER172> Why does it have the same name as a previously released phone? That is so confusing. Why not iPhone SE2

<comment><USER168> Ask the iPad Pro. Or 13 inch MacBook Pro. or Airpods.

You'll see it referred to by 'iPhone SE (2020)'

<comment><USER31> It's actually "iPhone SE (2nd generation)".

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER173> That's a whole lot of hardware for 399. Android handset makers are likely going to be upset with Apple moving downmarket with a chip that will run circles around what they have to offer.

Honestly I should have gotten one of these instead of my 11 pro. My 11 pro is just too much phone.

</comment><comment><USER174> Is there any confirmation that this phone will/won't support 5G? It seems to be omitted in the marketing materials.

While multiple years of OS support would be nice in this form factor, not being able to use 5G data would be a big negative in terms of this being "futureproofed".

<comment><USER175> The new iPhone SE definitely doesn't have any 5G.

5G is extremely overrated. LTE is easily capable of 200Mbps. I've personally seen it... but very few people have. Have you? (relevant link that demonstrates over 500Mbps on LTE: [https://www.iphoneincanada.ca/news/iphone-11-pro-max-lte- spe...](https://www.iphoneincanada.ca/news/iphone-11-pro-max-lte-speed-test- telus/))

Until our towers have enough network backhaul to consistently max out LTE to a phone when that phone needs it, 5G has exactly one benefit: less signal congestion at major sporting / concert events with high densities of people. The carriers would say "marketing" is another benefit, probably.

Just having 5G won't make the internet any faster in most situations, since the towers are backhaul limited... they aren't limited by LTE.

Even 200Mbps is more than enough for 99% of people's phones for the next 5 years, especially since that's like double the average home internet speed in the US. The 537Mbps seen in the article I linked to is just excessive by today's standards... and that just requires current LTE.

"5G" also refers to two completely different technologies, which most people probably don't realize. One of them doesn't even seem very different from LTE, and the other requires towers for almost every single city block.

</comment></comment><comment><USER176> I really want to jump back into iPhones and prepared to sustain another painful migration back into ios, but not with no guarantees I'll have a product refresh in the coming years; I've been forced out of the ecosystem once and I'm not going to get burned twice.

</comment><comment><USER177> Looks clean. Wonder if that means the array of sensors needed for AR/Face id is still that expensive to make that they can't add it to their $400 phone. You'd think that by now after having multiple gens of flagship phones using it cost would be low...

</comment><comment><USER178> What's with the design, should have gone flat edges & slimmer bezels & in display fingerprint. From experience of 5 year old 5S, TouchID just doesn't work with little sweat or dust. In display readers on other phones just work so amazingly

</comment><comment><USER179> I am still holding out hope for a 4.7" phone that is all screen and supports Face ID. Maybe the next iPhone SE in 4 more years will be that phone.

I imagine they could not produce that phone at this price point .. which is quite good for what you are getting.

</comment><comment><USER180> I feel in good company. Here I thought I was the only one who longed-for the smaller iphone.

</comment><comment><USER181> I realized recently that Face ID is useless when I'm out and about because of face masks.

</comment><comment><USER182> Another current SE user here. I've been waiting for this since rumors started 6+ months ago.

I was hoping they were going to keep the same screen size but think I'll upgrade anyways. Figure I will need to eventually and this has a solid tech bump-up.

</comment><comment><USER183> Tangential: the scroll performance on hardware-accelerated Chrome for the landing page is absolutely atrocious on a Xeon v6 running past full frequency (3.6GHz, so not in energy-saving mode). I would have expected better of Apple. \ _shrug\_

<comment><USER184> Site feels great on my 2017 One Plus.

What graphics card do you have? Are you sure the correct drivers are installed...?

</comment></comment><comment><USER185> [https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?device1=iphoneSE2ndgen...](https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?device1=iphoneSE2ndgen&device2=iphone8)

</comment><comment><USER186> [https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?device1=iphone8&device...](https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?device1=iphone8&device2=iphoneSE2ndgen)

</comment><comment><USER187> Awesome! I love my SE. A smartphone that doesn't try to be a full-fledged tablet computer (size-wise and spec-wise). $400 is what I paid for my original SE, so this isn't bad. Gonna miss the 3.5mm plug in though.

</comment><comment><USER188> "Best Single-Camera System in an iPhone"

Is there another iPhone with a single-camera system? Otherwise it just sounds like they had 0 other good things to say about it.

Soon we're down to "the newest iPhone ever released so far".

<comment><USER36> There are certainly all the previous iPhones that had just one (back-facing) camera. I suppose they're saying that it's better than all of those. Every year they say that the new phone is the "best iPhone ever," which I suppose is true but isn't a very strong statement.

Edit: Actually, the iPhone XR has just one camera: [https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone- xr](https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-xr)

</comment></comment><comment><USER189> Why tho?

I have an old iPhone SE. It is small enough that I don't even notice it in my pocket. It does everything I want it to do very well and is actually very responsive.

Also it is about $60 bucks on ebay. I have no compelling reason to switch.

<comment><USER139> I assume no more iOS updates are coming for the SE. Pretty soon your apps won't upgrade, and won't talk to the app servers, and you can't install new apps.

So you don't have a compelling reason to switch now... but in a year or so you unfortunately will. It's what happened to me with my iPhone 5. :(

<comment><USER31> It might get iOS 14.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER190> Is the frame made of aluminium or glass? I can't find it mentioned anywhere.

<comment><USER191> Glass front and back, aluminum edges.

</comment></comment><comment><USER192> I have the 1st gen SE and a pixel 3a. pixel 3a screen currently shuttered. But will gladly switch back to 2nd gen SE if they let me run Firefox on that thing. I will compromise on a headphone jack n get an mp3 player

<comment><USER193> Firefox for iOS has been out for quite a while: [https://apps.apple.com/us/app/firefox-private-safe- browser/i...](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/firefox-private-safe- browser/id989804926). Unless I'm missing something?

<comment><USER192> firefox, using the firefox engine. not being a simple wrapper around webkit.

<comment><USER193> Ahh gotcha. Yeah, that'd be the day they probably also release Seamonkey Mobile for iOS/Android /s

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER194> Lets use all the spare parts of iPhone 8 and call it iPhone SE gen 2. I get the concept but it would have been nice with a iPhone XR design but in the size of the original iPhone SE. $399 is still reasonable.

</comment><comment><USER195> Have been considering a replacement for my 6S, this looks like the ticket.

Is there an adaptor / dongle that can enable charging while using a headset?

I've seen the lighting to audio dongles. Is there a lightning to lighting+audio?

<comment><USER55> Yes, there are lightning to 3.5mm audio adapters. It will also come with lightning port EarPods you could use.

</comment></comment><comment><USER196> The Dual SIM with eSIM is a nice touch - is this the first iPhone to get it?

<comment><USER197> No, it was introduced in the iPhone XS/XS Max.

[https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209044](https://support.apple.com/en- us/HT209044)

</comment></comment><comment><USER198> As much as I love apple products (I'm using mac and iPhone for years) I do think that the spark in their innovation is slowly fading. I can't remember the last time they 'Wow'ed me.

<comment><USER168> This is a budget device which is code for 'old iphone, new internals'

Probably just not the release you need to be wowed, they did this before.

</comment></comment><comment><USER199> Yesterday in their keynote, Oneplus dared to call the new Oneplus 8 "compact" with its 6.55" screen. Although to be fair it has a much better screen-to-body ratio than the SE.

<comment><USER86> It ~12% more compact than the OnePlus 8 Pro.

<comment><USER199> That's one way to look at it I guess :-) (note: I personally think content should be the focus of a smartphone, so the screen should be as big as physically possible; 6.7" is my current limit though).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER200> The reasons I bought my SE were:

1\. being small 2\. powerful as the iPhone 6s.

I'm quite disappointed with this. I wish they could have kept the same size and increases the dpi with a big larger screen.

</comment><comment><USER201> The features on offer here for the price sre surprisingly good from Apple.

The big phone/small phone argument will be silly in a couple of years when we all have folding phones.

</comment><comment><USER202> I'm definitely getting one in (PRODUCT)RED.

Jokes about editing goofs aside, this will probably replace my iPhone 6S Plus in a couple of years once it's even cheaper.

</comment><comment><USER203> This could be the perfect phone. If it had a headphone jack.

</comment><comment><USER204> COVID-19 edition! can't tell you how many times I'm annoyed by having to tap in passwords like it's goddamn 2012! (coz i'm wearing a mask)

</comment><comment><USER205> Huh this is interesting. It looks totally indiscernible from the iPhone 8 I'm using now. I guess it's got a better processor though, at least :)

</comment><comment><USER206> I'm a longtime Mac & iOS developer (15+ years) and I still have an iPhone SE. The only thing I care about is the size. Won't be upgrading.

</comment><comment><USER207> No 5G support seems a bummer (can't see any mention it on the page). DOA for me for that fact alone. Hoping the new iPhones in September have it.

<comment><USER175> See my comment here: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22879752](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22879752)

There are plenty of reasons to dislike the new iPhone SE, but I don't think lack of 5G should be one.

<comment><USER207> 4G around the UK is pretty grim. I struggle to get any signal in the centre of Glasgow, especially around the Central train station. Even on 3G. Anything that helps is welcome.

<comment><USER175> I don't see how 5G would help with that... that sounds like a carrier problem, not an LTE problem.

In my personal (and possibly wrong) opinion, even a very popular train station shouldn't have enough people to oversubscribe the LTE airwaves and cause signal congestion.

The Atlanta airport has 3x to 4x as many passengers per year as Glasgow central station, and I've never had trouble getting good, solid cellular connection when I'm there... so I don't think the number of people in close proximity is causing oversubscription of the airwaves.

The carrier you use probably hasn't put up enough towers, or the towers just don't have enough backhaul bandwidth to do anything useful.

<comment><USER207> Definitely is a carrier problem, but due to the decreased range of 5G it would make it more essential for the carriers to install more antennas around the area rather than getting away with having less for 4G/3G.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER208> come on, that's just lazy, what would happen if they would make at least the top bezel smaller and expand the display together with higher resolution? so much wasted space

it's nice someone produce 4.7" phone, but it could be either smaller with such outdated low res display or display could be bigger in same body

this just seem like they have big stock of old displays and phone bodies they still need to dump

</comment><comment><USER209> Looks like the camera sticks out from the back a little, which is one of the features not present on 5S and previous SE, and I liked it that way.

</comment><comment><USER108> Wow this is pretty aggressively priced. It's very unlike Apple to self-compete like this. It looks like this will eat into the iPhone 11 sales.

</comment><comment><USER210> Touch ID alone is enough for me to consider downgrading from my iPhone 11. FaceID is one of the worst features Apple has ever released imo.

</comment><comment><USER133> Looks like it doesn't come with the ultra wideband/UWB U1 chip, so this might impact future "AirTags" compatibility.

</comment><comment><USER211> So OnePlus released an expensive phone and Apple released a good cheaper phone. This COVID-19 surely has flipped the world upside down.

</comment><comment><USER141> Apparently cases made for the iPhone 8 will fit the new SE. That's great for case manufacturers, and also good for consumers.

</comment><comment><USER212> So disappointing. No headphone jack is a no go.

</comment><comment><USER213> I don't think I could go back to not having FaceID and having a physical home button. The size and the price is perfect though.

</comment><comment><USER214> Well, I was hoping for a large phone with the fingerprint reader back. I don't care for FaceID. This is a great phone.

</comment><comment><USER215> iPhone SE is the form factor of iPhone 5s, the last phone in the previous generation before iPhone 6/7/etc.

iPhone SE 2 is the form factor of iPhone 8, the last phone in the previous generation before iPhone X/11/etc.

iPhone SE2 is only a tiny bit smaller than the iPhone X or iPhone 11 Pro. Less than a half a centimeter in height and width.

</comment><comment><USER216> Last 2 days: an iPhone with flagship CPU is at the 400$ price point, meanwhile OnePlus releases a 900$ device. How ironic.

</comment><comment><USER217> I wonder how much of the form factor was determined by:

(a) space required by newer components (b) leftover (i.e. unsold) iPhone 8 materials

</comment><comment><USER218> I'll wait until I hear reports of thumb-usability before buying, but if it checks out, I'll probably upgrade.

</comment><comment><USER219> in all this talk about form-factor and sizes, the two most comfortable phones I ever used, in terms of their physical feel in my hand, were the palm pre2 and pre3. They felt like a little river pebble that was warm to the touch. I wish companies would go back to small phones that feel good in your hand.

</comment><comment><USER220> This is the price point that will change the apple Android dynamic forever. Good timing with the gov checks too.

</comment><comment><USER221> Let's not talk about the new iPhone and instead argue the merits of iOS vs. Android vs. Windows Phone. ;-)

</comment><comment><USER222> Does anyone else get severe graphical corruption on Windows 10 using google chrome while scrolling that page?

</comment><comment><USER223> Fantastic specs for a fantastic price! I wonder what effect this will have on the other mobile manufacturers.

</comment><comment><USER224> Do any of you feel that the struggle of current times places our obsession with technology into perspective?

</comment><comment><USER225> Still no proper Firefox with proper browser extensions/add-ons, still no interest in iOS devices.

</comment><comment><USER226> I don't get it. It's over 520 USD in Germany (479 EUR). Is this supposed to be an SE edition?

</comment><comment><USER227> Too bad the gold color option is gone.

<comment><USER228> Rose gold for me! But I might have to settle.

</comment></comment><comment><USER229> I never understood hype behind this phone. On paper it seems like april fools joke. Single camera, absurd screen-to-body ratio and all of the things from 2010 in 2020.

None of you bought s10e which is a brilliant phone yet you whine that no small phones are available - maybe you should vote with your wallet or just admit that you're in it for the nostalgia and drop the facade.

<comment><USER230> > Single camera

Most people only use one camera. The SE is also $399.

> absurd screen-to-body ratio

Some people really dislike the edge-to-edge screen of the newer iPhone models

> all of the things from 2010 in 2020

This is literally one of the fastest phones on the market and it's only $399. Did you live in an alternate reality 2010?

<comment><USER229> Samsung s10e is like 300$ these days - has wide-angle camera and almost full body screen for the same phone size and has been released a year ago.

> literally one of the fastest phones

where are you getting that? What an absurd statement to make.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER231> I was looking forward to this phone but will not buy as it doesn't not have a 3.5mm jack

</comment><comment><USER129> Compared to iPhone 8: \+ New processor \+ WiFi 6 \+ Dual SIM \+ possibly upgraded RAM

</comment><comment><USER232> > black, white and (PRODUCT)RED

This non-uniform nomenclature is hurting my programmer brain.

</comment><comment><USER233> This is the anti-SE.

The SE was small and premium. This is big and low-end (well, Apple low-end).

</comment><comment><USER234> I'll be upgrading my iPhone 5s to this!

Yes, I held out THIS long for a small form factor.

</comment><comment><USER235> This looks almost exactly like an iPhone 6... The measurements are the same.

</comment><comment><USER236> The size of the original iPhone has been insisted by Steve Jobs. Based on his insistence on the table high and low for apple store, there is a reason for that size.

I still bought a iPod lately for the size and 2nd phone SE for the size (and the weight).

</comment><comment><USER237> Apple stock is going to go bananas. Wall Street is going to love this.

<comment><USER238> I dunno; Wall Street loves ARPU, and this might bring it down a bit.

</comment></comment><comment><USER239> I love it! i still have the old iphone 5se I want to buy this one!

</comment><comment><USER240> No one is stating the obvious here!

Apple is making more and more money from the app store and is trying to get into the streaming content game.

Streaming tv shows and movies on a tiny screen is not as enjoyable,therefore the old SE screen size is simply never going to happen.

</comment><comment><USER241> Nice, now if they can start making phones with easily replaceable batteries, screens and charging ports that don't break on every one of my iPhones, we'll have a product that should've been made from the very start.

</comment><comment><USER242> Anyone know if this will work with Google Fi out of the box?

<comment><USER243> I use my iPhone XS on Fi.

You don't get carrier switching (T-Mobile only) and visual voicemail is done through the Fi app instead of the native phone app. Also no WiFi calling/SMS.

Other than that it works fairly well and costs a lot less than a standard plan at the other carriers.

</comment></comment><comment><USER244> Would I buy it? It depends on the manufacturing country!

</comment><comment><USER245> Ooooo they kept Touch ID. This is deffo my next phone.

</comment><comment><USER246> This phone compares so favorably to the Pixel 4a!

</comment><comment><USER247> Can someone confirm or deny if it has night mode?

</comment><comment><USER248> What does SE mean?

</comment><comment><USER249> type C and a headphone jack would have made this phone god-tier. Good on apple for releasing something affordable though.

</comment><comment><USER250> I am still using my iphone 6 (from 2014) without any issue besides airpods not working well with Ip6. I have been hankering for an upgrade. This might be it.

</comment><comment><USER251> Pretty soon we'll bring our small "phone" with us in our backpacks while our big "phone" stays at home attached to the wall.

</comment><comment><USER252> This is not an SE. This is a 6S.

I have a 6S. I want an SE.

</comment><comment><USER253> Masterstroke of timing from Apple. This is what good executive leadership does wrt business: keep pocket aces when things look bleak.

</comment><comment><USER254> Ah shoot, I wish I had known they were bringing touch ID (and the home screen button) back. Not a fan of Face ID.

</comment><comment><USER255> this is what i'll get when my 8 breaks, hopefully not in the next 2 years

</comment><comment><USER256> > A13

Well, found my new iOS test phone.

</comment><comment><USER257> the worst thing for me is the design

i mean this phone is soo slippery

without case it's unusable

</comment><comment><USER258> Death of the small phone

</comment><comment><USER259> iPhone 11, with an iPhone 7/8 body. Sounds ideal to me.

</comment><comment><USER260> Guess it's almost time to list my classic style iPhone SE 128GB on eBay...

</comment><comment><USER261> Hi Apple. Throw in a 3.5mm stereo jack and you've got my attention.

</comment><comment><USER262> Wait, no nightmode?

<comment><USER168> Thats an iPhone 11 Pro feature only. Not even the 11 gets it.

EDIT: My mistake, was thinking of Deep Fusion.

<comment><USER73> 11 has night mode.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER263> ~720p class screen

<comment><USER168> Give it a little more credit than that, it's a pretty tight LCD that has better effective (observed) DPI than it might appear to have. (As OLED displays take a hit due to the Pentile arrangement) 326PPI in an IPS LCD with HDR isn't nearly as blurry 720P might sell it to be. The iPhone 11 is well reviewed despite similar agreement. Plus chopping the pixel count comes with battery gains. No surpises here.

</comment></comment><comment><USER264> Carrying on with the 2019 iPad Mini wifi + a $25 Nokia dumbphone.

</comment><comment><USER265> ouch A$749 is pretty damn expensive...

</comment><comment><USER266> no one has mentioned that it is $399.

</comment><comment><USER184> A light joke - this is the iPhone SE SE.

</comment><comment><USER267> This is basically a rebranded iPhone 8.

<comment><USER168> With the CPU out of the iPhone 11 Pro. At $400 it is going to be faster (at processing tasks) than the S20 Ultra.

</comment></comment><comment><USER268> No headphone port? Are they deaf?

</comment><comment><USER259> No 5G radio support...

</comment><comment><USER269> pixel is ded

</comment><comment><USER270> Why do the edges need to be round? Can this idiotic trend die already? It makes it easier for the phone to slide off of flat surfaces. It also makes it much harder to hold the phone with one hand since all the weight that concentrates on your pinky rests painfully on 2-3 millimeters of your skin rather than being spread across the full thickness of the phone. It also makes it easier for the phone to slip out of your hand if your pinky isn't at just the right location and angle, the smooth curve means it just slides right off your pinky knuckle and onto the floor.

No one ever asked for this.

</comment><comment><USER271> I'm astonished that this gets 1K+ upvotes on HN in this crisis.

</comment><comment><USER272> Why is the color called PRODUCT(RED)? What next, "White Pro" as a color?

<comment><USER273> PRODUCT(RED) is a charity campaign originally to help fight HIV/AIDS. [https://www.red.org](https://www.red.org)

</comment></comment><comment><USER274> One real con imho, no Night Mode. They could've at least some of this logic (with the A13 included).

<comment><USER275> Wait, no "night shift" or something else? The 8 had that...

</comment></comment><comment><USER276> >(PRODUCT)RED

What about ";blue?

</comment><comment><USER277> I know it's a pretty much lost cause but I am 100% willing to die on the hill of never buying a phone without a headphone jack, no compromises, so a sad hard pass on this one.

<comment><USER278> Same boat as you, switched to android last year, atleast i will always have options in this side of the market.

</comment></comment><comment><USER279> I don't really understand why this is at HN front page, and also why people are keeping upvoting it, are you afraid some people will miss the news if this is not at the top ?

Also the guidelines state : 'If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off- topic. '

<comment><USER280> I feel like HN forgot about that particular guideline a long time ago.

</comment></comment><comment><USER281> So $400 equals roughly £320 and yet the retail price on the UK store is £419 🧐

[https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/buy-iphone/iphone- se/4.7-inch-...](https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-se/4.7-inch- display-64gb-white)

<comment><USER134> As always, US pries are ex-tax (meaning state sales taxes are added on and can be as much as 10% depending on city and state). Most other places (UK included) as inc-tax. If you take out the 20% VAT you get to 349 GBP, which is ~437 USD at current exchange rates. That's not that far off.

</comment></comment><comment><USER282> Physical button and massive bezels, pass. Feels like buying a device from a tech era ago

<comment><USER283> That's the point of the SE. Lots of people loved this design. Not everyone cares that much about bezels (I like mine thin personally however).

</comment></comment><comment><USER284> On a different note, Isn't it weird to see companies launching new phones when the whole world is fighting a pandemic?

It's not like an essential that we can't live without. OnePlus just did a few days back. Do these companies expect people to buy new phones when they're are being laid off or is it just an annual ritual or a desparate move to be the first to capture the market when things become normal?

Any insights please!

<comment> addison-lee Plenty of people still working, and this is a budget iPhone; this is the perfect time to launch a cheap phone.

<comment><USER285> It's likely to cannibalize sales from their higher-priced phones, but better to sell a cheaper phone than to lose the customer entirely.

I noticed that if you scroll down to the bottom of the press release, they are also accepting orders for the magic iPad keyboard as of today...

<comment> addison-lee As Apple moves to be more of a service-based company, they are likely factoring in the increase in service value for newly acquired/retained customers.</comment></comment></comment></comment>