University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs - <AUTHOR> https://www.uopeople.edu/ <comment><USER2> Hi. I attended this school and then got accepted to another more standard institution, which I applied at the same time to. The new institution, learning I had been attending U of the P, promptly told me that U of the P credits would not transfer. Universal transferability in question, I opted out.

I did enjoy meeting people from all walks of life, all over the world. However, I also saw a grossly wide range of educational professionalism in the students. In the introductory mandatory writing course, for example,there were a number of classmates whom could not grasp the idea of plagiarism being unethical. With a plagiarism assignment graded by those peers, it was difficult to not feel like higher educational learning was moving along for oneself at a progressively intellectually challenging pace.

<comment><USER3> > could not grasp the idea of plagiarism being unethical

I remember experiencing this at a private religious university. At the time, my hyper-religious mind was blown to see students outright cheating in the Testing Center.

Since then I've been exposed to additional perspectives on plagiarism. It is an extremely deep and nuanced topic. A few years out of school, I ended up mentoring and then teaching college students who seem to match the sort of person you describe. This was a huge shock at first.

The more I learned about these students, the more I learned about the sheer variety of perceptions involved: One person's fairness concept is, to another person or group, a latent power dynamic which ought to be questioned.

Or, this person's concern for the big-picture ethical questions is this other person's small-picture roadblock in an economic problem which seems more urgent with each passing moment. You want a big picture? Can you justify it in seconds, with something that's not simply a subjective perception or largely- covert moral construct of your own?

Yet another person's assumption of perpetually commonly-understood contract is another's baroque exercise in cleverness and flexibility. It's the sneaky laser dance from _Ocean's Twelve_, and _that_ kind of challenge is, psychologically speaking, extremely energizing for them. Don't think they didn't notice how things work in the "real" world! (When these two see each other face to face--so to speak--there are harsh outcomes)

Anyway--sorry to hear about your experience & thank you for sharing so that others can be more educated about their choice of institution.

<comment><USER4> The problem with plagiarism isn't best characterized as some sort of power struggle between teachers and students via bullshit assignments.

The purpose of learning to write is to make yourself a formidable communicator. If you can independently analyze a new topic to learn something new and apply the results of those learnings towards a particular goal, you can be amazingly effective in everything you aim for. But if you plagiarize every assignment you rob yourself of your own training of this critically important competency.

Plagiarizing some work doesn't really hurt the work, it hurts _you_.

<comment><USER5> This is under the assumption that you see college is a program of self- betterment and not busy work for receiving a degree that says you can have a middle-class job. It feels like even the universities themselves see it as the latter these days.

<comment><USER6> The cynical anti-intellectualism in this thread is bracing.

All part of the zeitgeist I guess.

News is fake. Science is fake. Schools are barriers. Everything is subjective, objective reality is nonexistent.

How do we have productive disagreements going forward?

<comment><USER7> Anti-college is not anti-intellectualism. Quite the opposite. Higher education is no longer about education; it's about profit. Pieces of paper are pointless for anything other than wallpaper. Free-range education through meeting and collaborating with others is more beneficial to expanding your knowledge than handing over money to some college. Save those tens of thousands of dollars and years of your life. Spend that time and money being an apprentice, creating your own curriculum, or taking specific training.

<comment><USER8> > Anti-college is not anti-intellectualism. Quite the opposite. Higher > education is no longer about education; it's about profit.

In the US, maybe. Do people take ridiculous loans for their degree outside of US? Some loans, sure, but loans that amount to 5-10x their future yearly income? I don't know...

<comment><USER9> While there are some truly staggering examples of US college loan debt, the average loan debt at the end of a 4 year degree in the US is $26k or about the price of a new mid range car. For the majority of people, their total college loan debt is below a single year of their first year annual income out of college and certainly not 5-10x.

[1][http://www.collegescholarships.org/loans/average- debt.htm](http://www.collegescholarships.org/loans/average-debt.htm)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I took a semester of courses from UofP. It had a wonderful diversity of ages, genders, and nationalities. Interacting with those people through peer assignments was interesting, and I applaud what they're trying to do.

Ultimately, however, I found the entire thing way too tedious - full of the classic "make-work" and silly hoops. The level of pedagogy was very basic.

I dream of (and am actively working towards) a day where the computer's potential as a new educational medium is fully realized, rather than the current parade of attempts at transplanting a brick and mortar classroom into a remote asynchronous delivery system.

<comment><USER11> A young lady's illustrated primer? ;)

<comment><USER10> Sure, but as of today 2020, it would probably be GPT-2 (or -3) filling in for the voice actors, which would create students extremely well educated in knowledge which is 60% real. Maybe that's not so different...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> The first question I always ask of these weird online universities is, are they regionally accredited? National accreditation is not really a high bar and isn't considered competitive; all legitimate institutions of higher learning should qualify for and receive regional accreditation from an appropriate authority before considering such study in one's best interest.

This online learning site is eligible for regional accreditation as of 2020, but they really play up the eligibility in a way that seems suspect. They aren't clear if they have even applied, but they have 5 years to apply until they have to have a redetermination of eligibility.

Not saying this is a scam, but it feels like a scam.

This site was very hard to find, for what it's worth.

[https://www.uopeople.edu/student- experience/quality/accredit...](https://www.uopeople.edu/student- experience/quality/accreditation/)

<comment> non-entity > Not saying this is a scam, but it feels like a scam.

Not directly related to your specific concern, but every attempt to make a open / democratized degree has felt like that to me, unfortunately.

Example: There was an online degree program I saw that awarded a real, regionally accredited degree from a state university. The degree and course work were exactly the same, but the online program was basically open. No admission requirements except to pay for and pass some pre-requisites that would then grant you access to the rest of the degree. The equivalent brick and motar program went through the typical admissions process.

My first thought: "this sounds very close to for-profit school".

<comment><USER13> I've attended several schools online at both the undergrad and graduate level including a for-profit school. I don't find much different between them because they've all followed an asynchronous approach.

However, UoPeople is different in that it's much, much less instructor led. They use a "peer learning" pedagogical approach. It's something I quite dislike about the school. I consider it to be poorly implemented and leads to problems like "revenge grading." However, I tolerate it because it allows me to study in a structured environment for less than I'd pay at my local community college.

It's not something I would recommend for weak learners and/or for many who need a regionally accredited degree.

<comment><USER14> I'm there not because I need it either. I graduated from a software bootcamp and I've already been working for 2 yeast, so I'm good. However I found out UoPeople and researched them a bit e.g. called a local college 's HR department to find out if they'd recognize someone with a degree from there to teach and they said yes. My next thought was to review the Visa process for a couple countries; this is my primary interest and motivation. None of them specified where the Degree came from only that it was a sanctioned/Accredited institution.

So I don't really care about the details. I learn more, great, but otherwise I'm happy because I just want to be able to apply to get into Europe or Asia as a software developer in the future and not worry about whether I have enough points, etc to pass the rigor.

All of that being said, the first course was a gong show with lots of academic violations, but like all things in life it's what you put into it and I plan on graduating with Honors, so even if it's a weak degree I'll still be able to respect my work and effort.

<comment><USER13> I assume by "first course" you mean UNIV 1001.

For those unaware, that's the "study skills, introduction to college, college success" course.

Yeah, that was pretty awful. I don't mind the material. It was nothing new to me, but the quality of discourse, grades, assessments, and so on--ugh.

With each step through the CS prerequisites, things have improved. So it seems the less prepared students either washout or get stuck doing general education courses. (Thankfully, I've got all that covered in transfer.)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I've graduated from this university with a bachelor's in Computer Science last year. Overall I had a good experience. I found the curriculum to be on a weaker side. I was interested in various things about computers when I was young, so it felt like I knew half of the material. While studying, I was working at the company part-time. At the normal study pace, you should be ready to put up to 30 hours per week when taking 2 courses. In reality, it took me half of that time. Usually 10 hours per week. Some people with whom I've studied had a full-time job. I guess its a tradeoff. You have a less rigorous curriculum but you then have more time to pursue other interests. Closer to the end of the studies I quickly found a full-time job in a good company locally.

The tuition-free part is more of a marketing. At the end of the day, it cost me $4,060 for the whole degree which is quite reasonable.

Speaking of employment and red flags, from LinkedIn I know that those who had studied at UoPeople work for many big companies including FAANG. No problem here.

<comment><USER16> > At the normal study pace, you should be ready to put up to 30 hours per week > when taking 2 courses. In reality, it took me half of that time. Usually 10 > hours per week.

30 hours per week for just 2 courses? Are these courses covering more than a typical university?

In my undergrad, I took a minimum of 5 courses per semester (16-20 credits). Scaling from your expectations, that would be 60-80 hours per week? I doubt I went over 40/week, including lectures (admittedly, it wasn't a demanding university).

Just giving you my 2 cents so you don't assume that the time you spent per course is all that different from a traditional university.

<comment><USER13> The school uses terms (5 per year) rather than semesters, so each course is 8 weeks (plus 4 days for finals) rather than the usual 15 weeks plus finals week.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> So this seems like a good time to ask, does anyone have experience with University of London's online degree and how US employers feel about it? I've been eyeing it for a couple years now and was wondering if anyone either has experience directly with this program, or at least can speak more to how US employer's feel about degrees from overseas.

[https://london.ac.uk/sites/default/files/prospectuses/comput...](https://london.ac.uk/sites/default/files/prospectuses/computer- science-prospectus-2019-20.pdf)

[https://www.coursera.org/degrees/bachelor-of-science- compute...](https://www.coursera.org/degrees/bachelor-of-science-computer- science-london)

<comment><USER18> This may be slightly off-topic, but if you're looking at online/distance- learning offers from the UK, the OpenUniversity ( [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_University](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_University) ) is very well known and well respected, and has decades of experience in doing this.

<comment><USER19> I will second the OU, both me and my wife got access to higher education through the OU and successfully transferred credit elsewhere. It was still cassette tapes and books back then, but those materials were excellent. The difference I see now is that the funding is not as good from the government for UK learners. I didn't pay a penny for my courses.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> In looking at the CS curricilum this looks more like an extended bootcamp. Most regular university courses are not there, the credits/classes won't transfer to full universities, and you're left with a "degree" that pales in comparison to a "regular" degree. Plus you've spent about $5,000 to get their paper. I guess "accredited degree" just doesn't mean the same thing to as what I was thinking.

<comment><USER21> But is it enough to get me a visa to work in the US? I'm already a self-taught programmer, 5k is cheap to have the option of working in the US.

<comment><USER20> I would speculate no. It's not a well recognized degree and has little history or experience to back it up.

<comment><USER21> Presume that my accomplishments stand on my own, and the only thing getting in my way is that I don't qualify for a VISA under NAFTA. What I'd need would be a

> Baccalaureate or Licenciatura degree; or Post-Secondary Diploma or Post > Secondary Certificate and three years' experience.

Now you and I know this is pretty much just a sheet of paper, but what's the cheapest/easiest way for someone who already has professional accomplishments to get that sheet of paper?

<comment> non-entity > but what's the cheapest/easiest way for someone who already has professional > accomplishments to get that sheet of paper?

WGU might be that. it can be incredibly cheap (compared to your average bachelors degree) if completed quickly and I believe it's regionally accredited, so I imagine it qualifies you.

Now what a hiring manager will think of it is debatable.

<comment><USER22> I'm reading in admission requeriments "Students must demonstrate math readiness through successful and verifiable completion of a pre-calculus, calculus, or higher-than-calculus math course from an accredited post- secondary academic institution or WGU-approved third-party provider." Do you know where to make those coures online ?

<comment><USER23> Possibly [https://www.edx.org/course/precalculus](https://www.edx.org/course/precalculus) \- it's supposed to be "credit-eligible".

You would probably need to check to make sure it counts.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> After seeing a lot of comments here discussing accreditation, I figured it may be beneficial to many readers to know about low cost, more transferrable, options for college credits. I have to stress though, there are lots of a-hole universities so try to find one that is ok with transferring large numbers of credits. You can't get an entire degree from this, but you can get most of the fluff class requirements you don't actually need for your major done.

Ordered based on cost. First 3 are online.

saylor.org - You only pay the fee for online proctoring. Has a list of roughly 20 total lower level courses that are ACE accredited. Self paced.

aleks.com - Like 20 bucks a month and they have some classes at the level of college algebra and precalc ACE accredited.

straighterline.com - Self paced, overall better course quality than saylor. Has professor graded writing assignments sometimes. ACE accredited courses. Normally $60 a class with a $99 a month membership fee. To keep costs down sign up and do as many courses as possible in a month.

The GED - You can get up to 10 college credits by doing well on the GED. Not online sadly, requires a testing center. If you have a non-traditional american high school background you probably need one of these to get into a university anyway.

CLEP exams - Are very cost efficient at $90 each and allow you to "test out" of many lower and higher level classes. Not online, requires. testing center.

<comment><USER13> I'll append a few more.

Sophia Learning is currently offering their courses for free through July. They are ACE "accredited" (recommend is actually the proper term, I believe). I think they're normally ~$300-350.

There are several of us students doing courses there to transfer in.

Study.com offers many courses in CS and other areas which are ACE recommended. They charge $199 a month and an exam fee. If I recall correctly, you get so many exams in the monthly fee.

AP exams are another option.

DSST offers credit by exams.

And Excelsior College offers credit by exam as well, but I'm not sure of the costs.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> There are different types of accreditation for schools. Generally speaking, if you are in the US and want minimal risk in terms of transferability, you want to attend a school that has been accredited by one of several regional authorities. National accreditation is different and for purposes of credit transferability in the US, it is considered inferior to regional accreditation.

The University of the People applied for regional accreditation in 2020. They are not regionally accredited yet. The process can take years.

Note: Good schools can lack accreditation and bad schools can get the most prestigious accreditations.

Another note: There are schools that set up accrediting organizations to, surprise, accredit their own schools.

Edit: I think this is the list of legitimate regional accrediting organizations:

[https://www.chea.org/regional-accrediting- organizations](https://www.chea.org/regional-accrediting-organizations)

</comment><comment><USER26> They branded this wrong.

University of the People stands out front and centre as different and sketchy as the name makes you think of protestors in a park waving the hammer and sickle and handing out diplomas for life experience.

<comment><USER27> That's a pretty interesting interpretation of "we the people" filled with political undercurrents.

I think your underlying assumption is that only an "exclusive" university can provide a good education, and not something en masse. I think UoP is explicitly trying to challenge that assumption.

Btw, I have a hunch that if we valued "life experience degrees" more than "law degree at Harvard" the US Congress would be a better legislative body

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> Is UoPeople completely free? Are there any costs?

While we have removed most of the costs associated with attending a university, we do still have some fees to help us keep UoPeople running, and take care of all the admin and processing work we have to do for all of our students.

To cover these fees we ask for:

A one time non-refundable application fee of $60 and, For undergraduates: an assessment fee of $100 per course, or For graduates: an assessment fee of $200 per course Don't worry, if you need to time to save the money and you want to start right now you can, as the fees don't need to be paid until the end of each course. The assessment fees do not need to be paid until the end of each course which is very convenient for students who have to budget and save up. You can also apply for one of our numerous grants and scholarships to help you cover all the fees.

Please note the application fee does not include any additional fees that may be required for third-party evaluation.

After all courses we estimate the total fees for the:

Associate Degree are $2,060 Bachelor's Degree are$4,060 MBA is $2,460 M.Ed. is $2,660 What are the costs for Transfer credits? If you have credits approved to transfer toward your degree, the cost per transfer course will be $17. This is instead of paying the assessment fee per course of $100 for undergraduates and $200 for graduates. Transferring credits may significantly reduce the total cost of your degree.

What Grants & Scholarships are available? UoPeople works with top corporations and organizations to provide grants and scholarships to students needing financial support when paying the required application fees. Students can apply each term for the scholarship for which they are most qualified, and once awarded it can last for a full year of study. It is UoPeople's aim that financial need will not restrict students from studying.

How can I pay the application fees? Payments can be made through Western Union, Western Union Global Pay, Paypal, Cashier's Checks and Payment via MoneyGram. PayPal payments can be with your personal PayPal account or by using major credit card or debit card – VISA, MasterCard, Discover or American Express. For more information on how payments can be made, click here.

<comment><USER29> Accredited or not, "university of the people" sounds just like "hard knocks university", "life college", etc. Works for the Saul Goodman's of the world, maybe.

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> "tuition-free" is a misrepresentation of USD 4K for an undergrad degree. That might seem cheap for US (does it? really? compared to community college for example?), but it's crazy expensive for most "people" out there.

<comment><USER31> Yes, it's still cheap compared to a community college, which generally average an yearly tuition of around $4,000 to $5,000 per yeah, and that only for the first two years, after which you have to progress to a 4-year school to finish your degree at more than twice that price.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> I can't wait for a fully online without human University. I'd like speed running to be a thing

<comment><USER33> You can kinda do that already. In my first semester at WGU I went through about 20 classes. It's competency based and you can complete classes as soon as you master the material.

<comment><AUTHOR> > In my first semester at WGU I went through about 20 classes.

Woah, that sounds insane at first, but I'm assuming some of these might be like history 101? Could you elaborate on which program and which classes this was?

<comment><USER34> I'm currently enrolled in WGU in CS, I started 11 days ago and I finished 8 courses out of 34. They were (5) programming (2) Math (1) general

Most exams have a cutoff of 66.6%. Above that is a pass and below that is a fail. The university doesn't assign a GPA grade therefore you graduate with an automatic GPA of 3.0 regardless of how well you score. Since there's no intensive for a higher score and I already know the material from working in the industry (SQL, HTML, Java), I'm speed running the curriculum for the Bachelor's degree.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> This is nitpicky, I'll admit, but I consider it a canary in the coalmine.

On the MBA admission requirements page ([https://www.uopeople.edu/programs/ba/degrees/master-of- busin...](https://www.uopeople.edu/programs/ba/degrees/master-of-business- administration/admission-requirements/)):

"As an accredited University, UoPeople has a number of requirements for all potential applicants, to help maintain a strong, intellectual student body. [...] In addition, applicants need to have:

" * Be able to demonstrate undergraduate degree completion

" * Have English proficiency

" * A minimum of two years work experience

" * One reference (from an employer/lecturer etc.)"

The phrasing of the first two bullet points doesn't agree with the preceding sentence. That's a poor example of English proficiency.

If they don't proofread and correct their own admissions page, I'm frankly not too optimistic about the rest of the university.

</comment><comment><USER36> It's not regional accreditation, so it's not real accreditation.

For example, the MBA program doesn't have AACSB accreditation.

I don't want to just be negative here and certainly for the price of free it's a good resource to receive some kind of education, and ultimately a lot of people shopping for degree programs forget that a big reason to do them is to actually learn things. In that way this is a great resource!

But without that regional accreditation, I find the big bold claim of "accredited" to be just about as misleading as the way that for-profit schools throw around the term.

Of course, a lot of employers ignore the name of the college and don't bother with researching its accreditation. I'm sure a lot of people want to just get through HR filters if you can say "bachelors degree" instead of "high school diploma." Or maybe you need a masters degree to become a manager as a matter of company policy, and the company isn't picky about the degree.

I look at the MBA courses and it looks like the program consists first foundational courses that make up less than half or so of the curriculum of an AACSB accredited MBA. The computer science program does look a little more comprehensive.

There are a ton of programs out there online with reasonable costs and more legitimate credentials. Since I was recently looking at MBA programs, I can tell you that public schools like the University of North Dakota, Ball State, Mississippi State, and many others are highly ranked along with a low cost per credit hour. You can jump on the US News online MBA ranking site and filter by credit hour cost.

The most expensive thing is your time, and unlike money you can't get it back, so if it were my own education I would consider cost but also consider whether I come out of the program having wasted time with any of the concerns I stated above. Look at the curriculum and make sure it offers electives that might help you in your desired or current career (for example, a good AACSB business school will have courses on specific industries like Healthcare or IT Operations).

</comment><comment><USER37> Regional vs. National Accreditation – There's a Huge Difference [https://www.edsmart.org/regional-vs-national- accreditation/](https://www.edsmart.org/regional-vs-national-accreditation/)

<comment><USER13> Yep. And this is absolutely a concern those considering the school should take seriously!

That said, the school started the process for WASC accreditation. They announced it about a month or two ago. Thus, those who start now and take 4 years to do a bachelor's may end up with a regionally accredited degree instead of national.

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> For what it may be worth: two accredited online universities that have interestingly sustainable models and, I gather, good quality:

BYU Pathway Worldwide and associated programs. It requires a Church affiliation but not necessarily membership (I think). I think tuition is much lower especially if you do the year of English etc first, bachelors programs (like IT, business, others) are available, programs excellent, and is also suitable for those who need to first become qualified for entering a university (edit: i.e., learning English which is used in curriculum, and other basic skills), then provides that university. More info is in Wikipedia and I have gathered a bit of info including linking to a news article that explains it well I think, here: [http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854578440.html](http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854578440.html) .

And: [https://www.wgu.edu/](https://www.wgu.edu/) (also mentioned in wikipedia): state aid available from multiple states it seems (per wkp). Others have commented about it in this discussion, and praised it in other HN discussions, IIRC.

</comment><comment><USER39> Sometimes I read some heated comments / discussions on online degree programs. Is it good? Is it better or worse than traditional education? The answer is very simple: it depends on the student! I am a student at UoPeople. I'm already in my early 40s and I earned my bachelor degree in business roughly 20 years ago. I've built a solid and international professional career and I am a new father. I really wanted to pursue a new degree in computer science and I am so glad that I found UoPeople. It suited me perfectly. I have to say, though, that online education is not for everyone. It requires a few qualities that not everyone has (or wants to develop): discipline and self-motivation. UoPeople is excellent in my opinion, and from my perspective. It is an accredited American university that has academic partnerships with some of the most prestigious universities on the planet. It is tuition free. It allows students to have a flexible schedule. It sounded just like music to my ears. If you are a curious self-motivated person that is willing to accept the level of discipline that such commitment requires, I have to say: you will have a rewarding experience.

</comment><comment><USER40> Great, they made it tuition-free, accredited, and online; now take it all the way and get rid of the idiotic hoop-jumping of the admissions process!

Edit: I know nothing about their admissions process, only that they _have one_. Somebody's unimaginative I see. "Admissions" should be filling out a form including contact info, bank info and so forth, and then verifying that it's all true. What could they (or you downvoters) possibly have vested in restricting admissions in any way beyond that?

To conserve scarce resources? No, resources are almost limitless, because it's online, and lecturing and presumably grading are partially or fully automated, and there's no campus with spatial restrictions.

To make sure everyone pays their way? No, everybody does pay their way, and it's a non-profit.

To maintain an air of exclusivity? No, it's the University _of the People_.

To make sure the on-campus community is vibrant, diverse, and full of people with interesting extra-curricular interests and leadership skills? No, because again, there is no campus and no on-campus community.

To make sure not too large a percentage of enrolled students flunk out or quit trying? No, because _who cares_? Only elite colleges that care about an air of exclusivity, and they care in the _other_ direction, i.e. they _want_ you to fail out so they appear rigorous and demanding.

So yeah. ????

<comment><USER15> This university does not have a quota. They take in all students who apply as long as they meet minimum criteria.

There are reasons as to why there should be admissions. For starters, they require a high school degree. It's obvious that you should be well familiar with all of the school material before university. All studies and communications at the university are in English only. They accept people from the whole world so they need to ensure that you have adequate English skills. In the case of CS studies, they also check if a student has some basic math skills and any previous experience in the field or recommendation.

But even here university is trying to help students who don't pass minimum math and English requirements by offering them to take introductory English and math course. If they pass it, they can go on and pursue the degree.

There are good reasons as to why it is necessary. If you don't have basic English, you can't communicate with your peers. As a part of the study, you have to read and write a lot. You also need to understand your peer work and grade it. Finally, it is easier for the rest of us to study.

Before they were more lenient in requirements and it was causing problems. They had a very high drop rate because people who enrolled had no adequate English skills for example. It also made it difficult for others to study.

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> Hello. I have just completed my first term with UoPeople. For me, it's been a blessing to be able to pursue a higher education from home and on my own schedule, without the financial commitment that other institutes have.

My purpose for getting a degree is to A.) Have a degree, and B.) Have the competitive advantage over others in my field. Many employers these days want 2 things from employees: a degree and experience. I've already gone off into the world, worked for a few years, and started a family. Now it's time I complete my resume by getting a higher education.

Specifically with UoPeople, the educational method here is much different than what I've experienced before. Peer assessment has it's ups and downs. The fact that we are headed by peers (on written assignments) I think is an effective when done right. I'm an English teacher and I've started implementing it with my intermediate students.

Only time will tell how the rest of my path goes. For now, it's a good solution to my situation and I plan on taking advantage of it.

</comment><comment><USER42> I like the premise and I believe education should be a basic right. Someone should be able to pursue knowledge to the highest level and receive recognition for having done that. Now so often large corporations will not hire someone unless they went to a very expensive school, or at least their chances are much lower. So I like the overall idea here and I hope it will grow in strength

</comment><comment><USER43> Plagiarism is damning in many aspects of life and a critical part in learning the pros and cons of modern society. However without communication we are going nowhere fast. Simply put "Get right in what you know,say,and do in life or be left behind in the idiocy of the ones that are laden in ignorance" the don't give a shit group of people who do nothing but wait for the world to be handed to them on a silver platter. If you don't put your hands on it, trust and believe you will not gain the skills of what you are seeking to further yourself in life. Knowledge is power... Further more if you don't have failure in your life you are not going to learn anything either. Good intentions, everyone has them in order to be able to succeed in life, but some of the worst events in humanity were conducted with the best of intentions. Education and communication is fully important and key to get what you want in life. Without them were just dust in the wind.

</comment><comment><USER44> Uopeople has in many ways made my life easier, physically i am glad to say that Uopeople has been my final alternative when nothing else felt available enough for me. Im financially relieved knowing that my sholarship will carry me through my educational journey at Uopeople. When i first heard that Tuition-free doesnt mean what i probably thought it meant. It did stress me out abit ,or for little longer as my admission process was pending. I wanted to opt out because even the small amount of registration fee was alot for me. But it became the least of my worries when i attempted to apply for their suggested sholarship,not the first try but the second try i was made known that i can actually rely on Uopeople with access to a scholarship, i can complete what i started. Thus far, ive had a ball of a first semester and i really enjoyed it. The future definitely dont look impossible for me with Uopeople by my side. Thank you.

</comment><comment><USER45> University of the People is changing the way we face our educational system. Firstly by showing that education is freedom and should not be the privilege of a few. Secondly, by showing that the traditional educational model is outdated and not enough to keep up with the changes of modern world. It is accredited and I saw some people saying the level is very basic. Well, it might seem like that, but it really gives one the basics they need for a given degree. In today´s world it is impossible to expect to learn everything in the class. It is more important to know how to filter and deal with the astonishing amount of information we can get in a safe, critic and ethical way.

</comment><comment><USER46> Hello guys studying at UoPeople has really helped me a lot especially academically. When i first heard about this great online learning plartform from a friend i was not really serious about it because i taught it was not possible for there to exist a tuition free university but my friend then i should just give it a try since there was nothing to loose by trying and that was how i registered at UoPeople .I just finished my 2nd term at UoPeople and trust me its be absolutely amazing from the instructors to the students from different parts of the world to the beautiful and easy to move around learning environment . I do not regrit ever considering registering on this learning plartform at all and i can recommend this plartform to anyone at anytime. thanks a lot UoPeople am really grateful.

</comment><comment><USER47> My experience at UoPeople has been great both in education and culture. Truth be told, I want to say that in my case, with my associate in computer science from UoPeople, back in my country it is considered to be of higher standard. And this is not because the standard of universities in my country is low but I think that it is because my performance and know-how in my present company has improved tremendously, and in all the other companies I applied for a job,from my performance in the evaluation, they consider me to be over qualified for them to pay me and they make reference to the school I studied which is UoPeople. And that is how I got to share with them and many others about UoPeople. that is my little experience for now. Thanks....

</comment><comment><USER48> University of the people is an online university I joined it about a year ago and found a great level of professors in it and in the way of presenting the courses and weekly assignments as well. I got to know a lot of friends also from all countries of the world and forge a friendship with them I also studied with professors at a very high level and helped me to improve my level in programming and computer science in general because I study this specialization in it. Cultural diversity is a lot found in the University of the people of the best things in it Really, it is a very special experience and worth sharing.

</comment><comment><USER49> How are the faculty paid? Are there faculty? And if not, why can't Khan Academy go for accreditation?

<comment><USER50> yes, they get an "honorarium" according to the signup page, which means peanuts most likely (probably a portion of that ~$200 proctoring fee, or whatever they call it).

has anyone here applied to be an instructor?

</comment></comment><comment><USER51> There is always a negative sentiment towards novel approaches towards University, especially that the degree might not be as useful. At the same time there is the constant complaint that Universities tend teach things that are supposed to be too theoretical for the workplace. (And for practice focussed courses sometimes the curriculum is not as up-to-date as what is done in the workplace.) But since most people actually want to take a job outside of University after studying, this model seems ideal to me. It would literally give more space to traditional Universities, probably make admissions faster, studying cheaper and allow the different models to focus on what they can do best.

</comment><comment><USER52> UoPeople has given me an opportunity that the universities here in my country would never have given me. I really appreciate it in the sense that students are given the opportunity to assess their peers. I have really picked a lot of ideas from assessing my peers most of the time. I can also confidently say that I have gotten the opportunity to meet new friends from different countries, which has given me the idea of how they also relate to issues or how they approach things in general.

<comment><USER53> Hello how did u send the link

</comment></comment><comment><USER54> Let's be honest about schools like UofP and WGU. They exist to provide a cheap and easy way for experienced professionals to get that piece of paper to bypass a HR checkbox, nothing more. If you are serious about learning, look elsewhere.

<comment><USER13> I somewhat agree. I don't think UoPeople and WGU were individually founded for this purpose. But, I think they were made necessary by cultural forces which necessitate "that piece of paper to bypass an HR checkbox."

> If you are serious about learning, look elsewhere.

This is unfair though. You can still acquire a decent education through the school. Depending on your goals, it might be better to look elsewhere.

</comment></comment><comment><USER52> I can confidently say that, UoPeople has really helped me a lot in so many ways. Before, I did not understand what academic integrity was but with the help of the online education strategy that I took, has given me an indept understanding of why you need to provide a source. Time management was a problem for me because I did not have the knowledge of how to manage my time effectively. I have also come to understand different cultures from different countries. I have also made some friends through this school. To me, this school is a life changer.

</comment><comment><USER55> I am a proud MBA student of UOP. As I am currently living in the US, transferability of courses credits doesn't apply to me. I am enjoying the Tuition free and have already made arrangement with a Public University in Florida for a PhD in Public Administration.

One of my short-term goals is to help the community where I am living now and my home country with this degree.

Uopeople might not be accepted yet in other regions but I heard that they are working on it. When you want to help, you can get the most out of "a little". Uopeple degree helps you make that happen!

</comment><comment><USER56> My name is Kahlan, I am an ambassador and student for the university of the people. I have had nothing but a positive experience there as well as have been fortunate enough to receive a scholarship. The quality of education is fantastic, the professors and peers are so respectful and friendly, and I never thought I would even be able to attend a college due to lack of flexible time as well as finances. I feel so lucky to be apart of and to have found this wonderful university.

</comment><comment><USER57> Hello to HN in general and those who know more about the University of the People. I have a question... I've been a Web Developer for 7+ years. I'm in my mid-30's. I never graduated college, and definitely went for the wrong reasons. I'm fully employed, but I've always wanted to land an engineering degree (software engineering most likely), and I'm wondering if this University would be a good option. I know little about it, but it seems like some of you know much more. Can anyone comment on if this would be a good fit for me for a college run in my mid-30's?

<comment><USER13> It really depends on your goals. If you're simply wanting to complete a degree or learn more about the field (like myself) then it's a great opportunity. If you're looking to pursue pure CS research, it might be better to go elsewhere.

There are plenty of students around your age range. There are plenty who attend school full-time (2 courses per 8-week term) while also working full- time. Some are also raising families in the process. So, definitely feasible.

If you have more specific questions, I'd be happy to answer them.

</comment></comment><comment><USER58> I'm a student from Nigeria, and I'd say UoPeople educational system is something I really enjoy. The peer-to-peer system is quite nice, and is primarily meant for learning and not grading as the instructor goes through the grades and re-awards unfair grades. The communication and the instructor- student relationship for me, is commendable. They also embrace self learning which is even more effective when done properly. Even if there are lapses, they'll get better with time.

</comment><comment> JD-001 Hi, I recall my first day at UoPeople, was like a small paradise. The module was exceptional, not until I met realism in form Plagiarism and bias peers it was a knock down. Some Professors are a bit unkind without understanding the background and nature of some student. It's treating all animals the same way without considering their innocence, size, situation and intention.

Howbeit, I 'have enjoyed the company and experience with good and positive professors and students. Thank you for raising the bars of education and professionalism

</comment><comment><USER45> University of the People is changing the way we face our educational system. Firstly, it is showing that education is freedom and hence it should not be the privilege of a few, but rather something anyone can have access to. Secondly, it is showing that the traditional educational system is outdated to keep up with nowadays worlds demands and we need to come up with something new!

</comment><comment><USER59> My experience at UoPeople has been great. The courses are up to date and relevant in today's world. I remembered when my friend who is also studying Business Administration at a local university in my country looked at my school notes, she was surprised at how she did not know most of the things I had learned. This showed me that UoPeople offers quality education while there are still universities offering students outdated information.

</comment><comment><USER60> I just started studying at the University of the People. but I gained a little bit of experience. It gives the opportunity to get to know people from around the world, we are still in the lockdown, all studies stopped but luckily I still can study and do my homework and do my exam in my house totally safe, plus my instructor is so kind and so helpful and full of information I would never regret studying at the University of the people.

</comment><comment><USER61> Because of my special circumstances and the war in my country, I could not enroll in any university, when I heard about our university I felt joy and hope, and finally, I can study, now the study is. My opportunity and my dream of the People's University are among the best options that I have chosen in my life. It gave me hope and strength, it is distinguished With a very organized and beautiful learning system, I advise everyone to register! It is your best choice.

</comment><comment><USER62> I am really happy to be a student of UoPeople which is one of the world highly rated tuision free online University. The school has helped me to overcome my problem of time management and communication at work place has improved. However, I am glad that it has given me an opportunity of having my degree certificate in the future. Being a student at UoPeople requires internal motivation and patience because the workload is much.

<comment><USER62> I almost lost interest with the school but I was motivated by my supervisor through her constant messages and quick response that made the university processes easier for me.

</comment></comment><comment><USER63> A university's selling point to an employer is their degree ensures a student knows the material and can reason about it. That is the practical point of academic ethics. If a student cheats, sure they may get a decent job, although their lack of competence will eventually catch up with them. However, what they've done will impact the worth of everyone with a degree. So, getting a degree by cheating is essentially stealing from those who got the degree ethically.

</comment><comment><USER64> Reading the comments in this thread, it seems like there is a real need for a version of this that focuses on being more rigorous and achieving regional accreditation.

<comment><USER13> I wish the school were more rigorous, but they are working towards regional accreditation. It takes time, unfortunately (or fortunately?).

<comment><USER64> I want to clarify, I'm not at all saying that UoP isn't rigorous enough for what it is. While it may look like a cake walk to some HN readers, I'd guess that the curriculum poses a significant challenge and a real opportunity to learn for most people.

If this is the low cost, online version of a average public university, I think there should also be a low cost, online version of a "top-tier" school.

<comment><USER13> No worries. I didn't take it negatively.

I would prefer a more rigorous program, but for what I pay I accept it for what it is.

And you're right that many of the students struggle with even the basic courses, and there's very little in the way of support for them. Then again, that tends to be the nature of online education in general.

I don't know of any low cost "top tier" bachelor's programs, but I do know the University of Texas Austin and Georgia Tech both offer online master's for ~$10k. As I understand the programs, they're supposed to be more for students who didn't major in CS in their undergrad though.

I actually find some of the coursework in the Tech program interesting like Computational Photography.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Current student in the CS program. Feel free to ask questions.

<comment><USER65> As both the OP and you are new accounts, I will ask the first question I can think of:

is this a marketing move to post it here?

Also, I watched the "Who is behind it" video and it did not answer the question, who is actually behind this? Is it a non-profit? Is it owned by by someone? Who founded it when?

<comment><AUTHOR> >is this a marketing move to post it here?

Nope, I had found the university before but ignored it. Then was looking for cheap math degrees from the recent math books thread today, and came across this school again. Figured I'd post it, but I have no interest in attending there, as they don't have any programs I care about

<comment><USER65> Thank you for explaining.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER66> In this kind of time, i believe online study is the way to go. It takes self- motivation to study on a computer in the comfort of your home with lots of distraction.

What is there to against a revolution that serves a great purpose of demolish education shortage in different parts of the world. I personally enjoy the flexibility the school gives me so i can be partly working or traveling.

</comment><comment><USER67> I attend this school now and as long as you are smart and can teach yourself it is a good school. You pay practically nothing and you get what you put into it. If you want to take the subjects the instructor gives you and master them all you can, if you just want to learn the minimum to pass the class, that is your option to do so too. This school really is what you make of it.

</comment><comment><USER45> University of the People is changing the way we see education. Firtsly, it is showing that education is freedom and hence it should not be the privilege of a few. It is also showing that the traditional educational system is outdated and needs to be rethought and reformulated into something that fits the needs of the modern world.

</comment><comment><USER31> This school is not a regionally accredited school, and therefore the vast majority of other schools will not accepted their credit if you decide to transfer somewhere else or use the degree you earned to try & get into a graduate degree program.

It is borderline fraudulent for schools like this to operate without being very clear on the limits of the credits earned and their portability.

<comment><USER13> I don't know about borderline fraudulent, but I really wish there were better explanations by the school.

I already knew what I was getting into when I started because I've been in and around academia for more than 2 decades. However, many of the students don't understand the intricacies of American higher ed. And they can be hard to explain to current and prospective students who just want to know if the degree will help them get a job or obtain some other goal in life.

That said, if I am not mistaken there are rules about to go into place at the US Department of Education which is supposed to eliminate the distinction between national and regional accreditation[0]. This should be fun to watch how it plays out.

[0] [https://www.insidehighered.com/views/2020/03/17/pros-and- con...](https://www.insidehighered.com/views/2020/03/17/pros-and-cons-having- regional-accreditors-go-national-opinion)

<comment><USER31> If they're prohibited from treating credits from non-regionally accredited schools differently, then I suspect schools will put into place policies that are not "blanket" policies, but instead policies that dictate individual evaluation of each student, which will turn out to accomplish the same thing. Which really wouldn't be great, but also would filter out a lot of people of questionable academic credentials: regionally accredited schools generally meet some minimum standards, while non-regionally accredited schools are a crap shoot: some are just fine, but many are awful degree mills that don't even grade work beyond assigning an "A" for any submission.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER53> University of the people is giving opportunities for people who previously were not able to secure admission into college. I am a medical doctor currently pursuing a bachelors in community health and i must admit the institution is up to date and top notch!

</comment><comment><USER68> This school saved my life in more ways than I can relate. It is like any other school, where students copy paste and struggle with plagiarism, so if you think that there is a college without these, you are so wrong. The only issue here is the accreditation and how limited the transfer places are for now. I hope they work on this.

</comment><comment><USER56> My experience at UoPeople has been nothing but a positive experience. The tuition-free aspect is the whole reason I could even go to a college. I am so grateful for this opportunity and even admire the diversity this higher- education opportunity brings, I have met the BEST people and honestly the best professors.

</comment><comment><USER69> In all fairness, UoPeople has afforded me the opportunity to get an American education that is accredited and also transferable to other regular universities without leaving my home country. The most interesting part is the numerous scholarships available can be easily accessed regardless of wherever you might come from.

<comment><USER70> Why do you need scholarships for a free university?

<comment><USER13> The school is not free. It's tuition-free.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER71> Uopeople is the best that has ever happened to me as a person . At the institution , I am exposed to quality education and highly qualified instructors whose tutoring has affected me positively bringing about academic excellence . The institution's curriculum is up to date .

I have no regret studying at the University.

</comment><comment><USER72> Great initiative!! I wanted to volunteer, but they only accept if you can teach in two semesters per year or 15h per week. I am a researcher and I find it is too much! Once per year and then 5 h per week is the maximum I am able for a usual paid course in top 200 university, sorry.

</comment><comment><USER73> I've had a wonderful experience at the Uopeople. Meeting different people with diversified cultural views and knowledge. Great and more hands on course instructors and program adviser. Am pleased with the course content and study materials.

</comment><comment><USER74> I am a student from UoPeople, I recently graduated from the associates degree in computer science. I am working on a good portfolio to present to employers! Thank you UoPeople for all your help! =)

</comment><comment><USER26> An interesting question would be whether governments and teachers agreements accept this program.

Many of those have rules about how if you have a Masters, you earn X more and you can just keep earning more the more degrees you get. $4000 lets the payback period Be quite fast.

<comment><USER13> The school is accredited by the DEAC which is recognized by the US DoE. It's national accreditation which is less prestigious and not always "accepted" by regional accredited schools.

[https://ope.ed.gov/dapip/#/institution- profile/233675](https://ope.ed.gov/dapip/#/institution-profile/233675)

The Master's in education is recognized by International Baccalaureate (IB) which is a well regarded program. I'm not sure of the exact relationship as the program is new. (It just started this year.) However, it likely wouldn't be accepted by the various state education bodies for teaching licensing. (This is a guess based on my past experience in education.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER74> I am a student at this University. This is what has saved my life in the last 2 years. I have an associate's degree now, a way to gain money and a lot of knowledge. I thank to this opportunity at UoPeople and I think it is all worth it.

</comment><comment><USER75> They sure ask for a lot of information for signing up, which make me think that it is not free.

<comment><USER8> You pay I believe ~60USD signing up fee and then 100USD for each class (or 200USD for each graduate class). It's tuition free, not free.

<comment><USER76> Is that $100/$200 not "tuition"? I mean, it's cheap tuition, but it seems like it's tuition nonetheless.

<comment><USER8> Well, the term "tuition" refers to a part of the overall university expense. For example, for NYU, a quick search reveals a whopping $55,018 in annual tuition. That's not the total cost, which is higher since you might be paying for room and board, administration fees, classes/credit-hours, etc.

In general, universities in Europe tend to be free, so I agree with you, 100USD per class is indeed tuition for me. But, it is not the US-centric "tuition" of the brick-and-mortar schools.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER77> could've renamed "of the People" to something in Latin to make it sound more legitimate.

University of Populi

Homines University

</comment><comment><USER53> Im happy to be a student of uopeople cos I get quality education and for far less!! Looking forward to my uopeople diploma. To be honest the school is very smooth and convenient

</comment><comment><USER69> The university gave me the opportunity to realize my dream of an American education without leaving my home country. There are also numerous financial aid available to all seeking and deserving students.

</comment><comment><USER78> Finishing college honorably demonstrates an ability to finish something having a foundation to be a contributing member to society and in turn the society gives you a certificate to recognize you for it.

</comment><comment><USER79> Seeing a lot of negative comments here, especially around accreditation and pricing. As a co-founder of an accredited online university, son of a retired state university professor father, and grandson of a retired state university professor grandmother, I'd like to offer my own perspective.

University of the People is accredited by the Distance Education Accrediting Commission (DEAC), a national accreditor recognized by the U.S. Department of Education and the Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA). CHEA recognized accreditors can be browsed here: [https://www.chea.org/chea- recognized-organizations](https://www.chea.org/chea-recognized-organizations)

DEAC is a US-based, non-profit accreditation agency founded in 1926. Our university (quantic.edu) was also accredited by DEAC. It was a multi-year process, and extremely rigorous; we were evaluated across all aspects of our organization: academic, operational, financial, etc. Many schools that begin the accreditation process do not successfully complete it. As the name suggests, DEAC specializes in distance education, so it's a good choice for a university that offers purely online programs. Some accreditors have requirements that implicitly or explicitly exclude online universities; for example, there might be a requirement for a physical library of a certain size. Regional accreditation also often takes longer, or requires you to have been in operation for more years. However, when comparing notes with my retired academic family members, there were similarities in the required documentation for DEAC to what was needed in the regional accreditation renewal process.

A prerequisite for accreditation in the US is licensing at the state level and compliance with all state laws within which the university has a physical presence. This means that you need to be very careful about where your school has physical offices and from which states you advertise and enroll students. Note that licensing is also required for issuing certificates, not just degrees; this is a common mistake for education startups, especially bootcamps. Lambda School [1] and Flatiron [2] were both slapped for this.

The differences between regional and national accreditation often boil down to "regional accreditation means credits are more likely to transfer." However, one thing that's thrown a huge wrench into this is that in 2019, the US Department of Education revised its rules to _eliminate_ the distinction between national and regional accreditors! [3] This rule change will take effect in July 2020. The impact of this (and related) rule changes on credit transfer and how universities market their accreditation are open to speculation.

Regarding the University of People's pricing, it's important to note that they advertise as "tuition free." Terms like tuition have a very specific meaning in the world of higher education, and are considered distinct from "fees," for example. This is why UofP does not market itself as simply being "free," like we do for our early career MBA program. To use the word "free" unconditionally, DEAC requires us to prove our early career MBA students can apply, enroll, study, and graduate having paid no tuition or fees whatsoever. On the other hand, if you do charge for tuition, like we do for our Executive MBA, DEAC requires you to disclose all payment details up-front; this is why almost anywhere on our website where we reference a price, or even affordability, we also include a link to display a breakdown of tuition, payment plans, scholarships, discounts, and other potential fees.

The higher education space is very regulated, so innovation can be challenging. It's important to remember that most innovative organizations have to (at least initially) make tradeoffs to better serve a subset of the market over incumbents. Our raison d'etre is active learning, for example; we eschew passive lectures (no video professor) in favor of a proprietary interactive learning format that's mobile-first and broken up into small modules. This has numerous advantages for the learner, but it also means that our bespoke curriculum structure can't be easily packaged up into transfer credits. As a graduate school, we decided that was a reasonable tradeoff to enable innovation in the core learning experience. Likewise, we decided to pursue a quality-first strategy (see: Tesla master plan), building a deep, challenging curriculum with a selective admissions process (less than 10% admitted) to establish the value of the school and alumni network, with the plan to launch more open programs down the line.

If you've read this far, I hope that you at least take away the fact that building something new in the higher education space is hard. If some aspect of a program appears odd at first glance, consider if the diversion from the norm might also confer an advantage with a specific audience. And when evaluating educational program options, don't discount the value of a licensed and accredited provider recognized by the US Department of Education or CHEA.

[1] [https://www.educationdive.com/news/running-without-state- app...](https://www.educationdive.com/news/running-without-state-approval- lambda-school-shows-challenge-of-regulating/570906/) [2] [https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2017/ag-schneiderman- announc...](https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2017/ag-schneiderman- announces-375000-settlement-flatiron-computer-coding- school#:~:text=A.G.%20Schneiderman%20Announces%20%24375%2C000%20Settlement%20With%20Flatiron%20Computer%20Coding%20School,Its%20Employment%20And%20Salary%20Claims&text=NEW%20YORK%2D%2DAttorney%20General,settlement%20with%20Flatiron%20School%2C%20Inc). [3] [https://www.natlawreview.com/article/us-department- education...](https://www.natlawreview.com/article/us-department-education- issues-final-rule-to-revise-accreditation-and-state)

[EDIT: some sentences tweaked for clarity]

<comment><USER80> So your business model is let everyone who signs up access the courses but only let the top students get a degree and then make money by selling access to those students?

How much energy would you say goes into the student part vs the employer part?

</comment></comment><comment><USER81> Will employer acknowledge this university? That will be the ultimate test

</comment><comment><USER82> Here's the movie with similar idea: [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0384793/](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0384793/) :)

</comment><comment><USER83> my experience so far has been nothing but pleasant, great quality content in their courses (majors), I'm currently in my first years in my third term in June, i have learned about python like I haven't gone into the programming in any depth before, I joined uopeople in a computer science degree (BSc). plagiarism is a big NO in this wonderful university and so is creating. more about me, I am Nadine lynch, and I am south African.

<comment><USER13> Was this thread posted on Yammer or in a WhatsApp group?

</comment></comment><comment><USER84> I think plagiarism cannot be completely avoided since there's nothing new under the sun. Tha challenge becomes how to present an already existing idea in a new way

</comment><comment><USER85> The University of the People is an innovative school where you can meet and talk to students from all over the world. The faculty is of high caliber as well.

<comment><USER13> I wouldn't called the school "innovative." It's fairly unique in higher ed, but definitely not innovative. The pedagogical approaches it uses have been around for decades in most cases.

And the faculty can be hit-or-miss. Some are awesome, some of okay. A few are just awful.

Personally, I had an instructor for Java who had difficulty managing different JDKs one a single machine. If I, as a student new to Java, can figure it out, I absolutely expect my instructor to know how to do so. Granted, this particular instructor was a "standout" in the negative sense. Most have been okay.

Fortunately, instructors are mostly inconsequential as there's very little interaction with them.

</comment></comment><comment><USER67> I go to this school and as long as you're really smart and can teach yourself the material without an actual class it's great. Low cost and you learn a ton.

</comment><comment><USER84> UoPeople has given me a really amazing experience so far, I don't regret signing up with them and I would absolutely stick with them

</comment><comment><USER53> Im happy to be a student of uopeople cos I get quality education and for far less!! Looking forward to my uopeople diploma.

</comment><comment><USER86> What does Health Science mean? medicine?, is there any way to study medicine deeply on the internet for an outsider? a programmer for example?

</comment><comment><USER87> So, Correspondence Learning? Like [http://www.open.ac.uk/](http://www.open.ac.uk/)?

<comment><USER88> Seems to be a fair bit cheaper than the Open University. But maybe you get what you pay for ...

</comment></comment><comment><USER89> hello to all, I have found this amazing university where I can learn whenever I want and whatever I want to study. I never have the liberty to study on my availability but know I can and I am very happy about that. I would like to that UOP for being there for me and so many people to provide quality education.

</comment><comment><USER90> My experiment with university of the people is very well, I think it's good idea, online learning.

</comment><comment><USER91> My first experience with a tertiary institution and I could not have a better institution than UoPeople

</comment><comment><USER92> Am I reading this correctly that they are nationally accredited but have not gone through one of the regionals?

<comment><USER13> Yes. They announced about a month or two ago that they received permission from WASC, a regional accrediting agency, to start the accreditation process.

</comment></comment><comment><USER93> I have nothing to say accept thank you Uopeople for everything you've gave an oxygen

</comment><comment><USER94> This seems too good to be true and I'm trying to figure out the catch.

<comment><USER95> The catch is your degree will be from "University of the People" which will send red flags to hiring managers who check. Hopefully one day this will be a normal thing, but it's questionable whether your degree will signal what you want it to signal.

<comment><USER96> Graduates work in FAANG companies though, probably hiring managers comsider it trustworthy enough. Btw, what red flags do you mean?

<comment><USER97> > Btw, what red flags do you mean?

It looks like a lesser education. And it further makes it look like there's something strange about you that made you pick it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> I looked at their CS degree. Just one semester of Calculus?

<comment><USER98> Link: [https://www.uopeople.edu/programs/cs/degrees/computer- scienc...](https://www.uopeople.edu/programs/cs/degrees/computer-science- bachelor-degree-2/curriculum/)

Their data structures & algorithms course: [https://my.uopeople.edu/mod/book/view.php?id=45606&chapterid...](https://my.uopeople.edu/mod/book/view.php?id=45606&chapterid=37618)

I'm more worried about the the apparent lack of basic algorithms (Dijkstra? DP?) than not having more semesters of calculus.

<comment><USER13> Algorithms is a separate course.

[https://my.uopeople.edu/mod/book/view.php?id=45606&chapterid...](https://my.uopeople.edu/mod/book/view.php?id=45606&chapterid=37619)

Note that this syllabus is somewhat out of date. The second textbook link is a bad link. I can't find any material on the (unofficial) CS Discord about updates to the course.

<comment><USER98> Ah, it's not on the curriculum, it's an elective: [https://www.uopeople.edu/programs/cs/degrees/computer- scienc...](https://www.uopeople.edu/programs/cs/degrees/computer-science- bachelor-degree-2/curriculum/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER99> There are no advanced or master degree courses

<comment><USER13> Not in CS, but the school offers an MBA and an master's in education.

</comment></comment><comment><USER100> I guess this is a promising project, bookmarked.

</comment><comment><USER101> Is there a tuition-free CS masters anywhere?

<comment><USER13> You might find some in European countries. Though, I think they've cut back on a lot of their "free" programs last I remember.

However, Georgia Tech and the University of Texas Austin both have online MSCS degrees that come in around $10k.

</comment></comment><comment><USER102> Is this available to international students?

<comment><USER13> Yes. In fact, I believe most of the students are international students. In my last course, I had students from Nigeria, Italy, Germany, the US, Vietnam, and China.

<comment><USER103> Tell me how many are from India?

<comment><USER13> No idea. I don't recall anyone from my classes who has specifically mentioned being from India. I did a quick search on the internal social network, and there's quite a few students who mention being from various parts though. So, "some" is the best answer I can offer.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER104> Nationally accredited. Not regionally accredited. Hence useless for academic purposes.

<comment><USER13> Not true. There are schools which will consider nationally accredited degrees for admissions into graduate schools. Even the University of Chicago will consider them.

However, it's potential utilization is much, much more diminished compared to a no-name state school.

This might change when (if) they acquire regional accreditation, but they've only just started the process. Thus, it could take upwards of 5 years.

<comment><USER104> Not really. It's a story that nationally accredited schools like to tell, but it's not really true.

Regionally accredited schools simply don't take credits from schools that aren't.

<comment><USER13> I know several students who've transferred to WGU (RA, non-profit, online) to complete their bachelors degrees.

There are also students compiling lists of schools which will consider and/or accept UoPeople credits/degrees.

[https://www.reddit.com/r/UoPeople/comments/g55smv/list_of_in...](https://www.reddit.com/r/UoPeople/comments/g55smv/list_of_international_universities_accepting/)

The idea that UoPeople is some kind of academic dead-end is simply not accurate. It's not going to get as far as a degree from a no-name state uni on its own, but it can definitely be leveraged to further one's goals.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER105> _" tuition-free"_

"tuition-fee free"? I would hope you get at least some tuition!

<comment><USER13> The only required fees are an application fee and an exam fee per course. There are fees to transfer courses in, and many courses require a proctor. You can opt to have a professional in your community or use the online service ProctorU for a fee charged by that service.

</comment></comment><comment><USER106> How is this possible?

</comment><comment><USER107> Are professors paid?

</comment><comment><USER8> I'm taking this Uni in my free time. I am a full-time at a large IT company, and when I started, I had too much free time. I thought, I don't have a degree, I learned everything myself, let's see what the rigorous side of CS is.

Well, UoPeople is both good and bad, as everything in life.

On the bad side, some teachers are not only useless, but actively making your experience worse. This is mostly cultural, but teachers coming from Africa and some Asian countries really make you want to stick to the tiniest details of rules and assignments.

For example, if you have to write a learning journal (and you will), and the example of an LJ contains entries starting with date such as "DD/MM/YYYY HH:MM", African and some Asian teachers will ask you to correct it from any other format. I found this infuriating. What's more, when I had questions, most often, I got no help from these teachers. Some teachers would be amazing, most teachers would give me a non-helpful question, some would ignore my question outright.

I also feel like there's a ton of hoops you have to jump through. An associate CS degree consists of a number of health/philosophy/econ classes that I have zero interest in. This is, again, cultural, as UoP is highly US-centric. If you're coming from other country, you'll realize how many assumptions you had (and how silly the UoP/US system can be).

On the good side, however, I do feel like I'm learning a lot. If you really spend time in reading the materials, I have found the exercises in courses quite useful. I'm 100% sure it's not as rigorous as a brick-and-mortar university, no. They will let pass students who have learnt nothing as long as they put in work.

But, if you want, you can surprisingly learn a lot. Even after being a number of years in IT (engineering and now architecture), I found something new (especially their Database and other specialized courses are quite good). I haven't done math since high school (my brick-and-mortar degree was not in CS) and some of the math courses were really kicking my ass, which is great.

It's also insanely flexible in that it's online. You decide when to do stuff. You decide when to read. There's only deadlines for every week. Other than that, it's up to you.

Overall, I think my experience with UoP is quite good, but it takes a very specific mindset. If you're from a poor non-US and non-EU country, I'd say UoP is great for you (provided you can pay for it, since it's still not free). If you're from US or any EU country, UoP degree will have almost zero value in terms of having a degree, but might provide you with a lot of new knowledge. If you're in for the knowledge, I'd say it's nice. If you're in for the degree, I'd say go for Georgia's Tech OMSCS.

Feel free to ask any questions if you'd like. I'll be checking replies to this post for a day or two.

<comment><USER108> Nice review, how does one takes exams at this university?

<comment><USER8> All classes have multiple graded activities. There are weekly assignments, that are peer graded. There are three graded exams throughout every term that count to the final grade. There are learning journals that I mentioned, which are teacher graded and contribute to the final grade. And then, there is one final exam, that accounts for something like 30% of the whole grade.

Most often, this final test is done online, without any supervision. For some classes (like math classes), there is an online proctor required (ProctorU, costs around 15 bucks an exam). You might have your own proctor somehow, I didn't try that.

Grading is another area that I am ambiguous about. Peer graded exercises are kind of hit or miss. Sometimes, the peer marks something as incorrect because they are incorrect. Sometimes, they mark everything as correct because, I don't know, they want to be nice or something. Sometimes, there are mistakes in the grading key that peers should use, and that's the most infuriating to me, because the teachers' attitude towards mistake in grading keys vary significantly (and they mostly correct your grade but not the grading key, so future students will hit the same thing).

Overall, the tests for CS courses were, so far, somewhat unimpressive... I've seen questions like "who created C", or "what is the output of this python code" type of questions. The tests are mostly multiple-choice. I'd prefer if the class could elect not to do tests, and do a large project instead. Maybe for more advanced CS courses, that's how they do it, but so far, I've not seen anything like that (and I started 2 years ago, though I took some breaks). It's mostly the exercises and assignments that students are graded on throughout the course where the bulk of learning happens.

For the math classes, they were much tougher, where even a multiple choice answer is not making it significantly easier. For math classes, the tests are no joke. The strange thing was that the math classes teach quite advanced concepts that require you to calculate, for example, e^x or a sum of squares, or straight out use R, and then, in the final tests, you're allowed only a four-function basic calculator. That's amazingly frustrating to me, and I ended up guessing a lot of the questions (as in, e to the power of 4 would be probably less than answer A, but more than answer C and D, so B it is).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER109> hi, the first day when i attepted the apply the uopeople is im so afraid becaurse they many university online which is non accredited in the world,but when i recognized the uopeople is accredited im try to fill the application then im locky to get this university.becaurse is higher education in the world.im totally changing my life becaurse of uopeople. as now im expiriance too in my feild at uopeople. im happy to get uopeople in my life. and also thank to my programme advisor,which is farhanaz.

</comment><comment><USER109> hi everyone. since i attend this achool and i accepted the admision.the first topic that i registering in the first terms it is psychoogy and online stratagy i have learn how i discusion in student portal,and also i learning the method of education how i prepare for study amd how prepare gor the exams. and meet the sevaral people in others country. my expiriance is writing and read and how the controll my self.</comment>


Rudyard Kipling's Interview with Mark Twain (1889) - <AUTHOR> http://storyoftheweek.loa.org/2010/04/interview-with-mark-twain.html#

<comment><USER2> It's interesting that Twain grew to loathe Kipling due to the latter's efforts to get the US to "take up the white man's burden" and assume Britain's imperial ambitions as it was forced to give up its possessions. Hitchens has a great bit about it in Blood, Class, and Empire.

<comment><USER3> White Man's Burden:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Man%27s_Burden](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Man%27s_Burden)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Interview PDF: [http://www.loa.org/images/pdf/Kipling_Interview_Twain.pdf](http://www.loa.org/images/pdf/Kipling_Interview_Twain.pdf)

</comment><comment><USER5> "Your conscience is a nuisance. A conscience is like a child. If you pet it and play with it and let it have everything that it wants, it becomes spoiled and intrudes on all your amusements and most of your griefs. Treat your conscience as you would treat anything else. When it is rebellious, spank it—be severe with it, argue with it, prevent it from coming to play with you at all hours, and you will secure a good conscience; that is to say, a properly trained one. A spoiled one simply destroys all the pleasure in life. I think I have reduced mine to order. At least, I haven't heard from it for some time. Perhaps I have killed it from over-severity. It's wrong to kill a child, but, in spite of all I have said, a conscience differs from a child in many ways. Perhaps it's best when it's dead."

I find this a great advice.

</comment><comment> david-given On a similar seriously-wtf-did-that-really-happen note, H.G.Wells once interviewed Stalin...

[http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/04/h-g-wells-it- se...](http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/04/h-g-wells-it-seems-me-i- am-more-left-you-mr-stalin)

<comment><USER6> Discussed last year on HN at [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7616566](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7616566).

It wasn't so surprising at that time. Stalin hadn't become 'Stalin' yet, and Wells was on the English left.

<comment><USER7> Speaking of interviews, there's an interesting event in Australia at the moment. A program on the ABC called Q&A invited a person suspected of terrorism onto the program. That in itself isn't fascinating (at least to me).

The Australian Prime Minister has threatened one of the countries News Sources (ie. the ABC who aired the show), this includes a change of leadership of ABC - and as the ABC is government funded, almost certainly funding cuts. The government has clearly threatened a media outlet - not for being prejudiced, but for allowing a view to be expressed.

It's fascinating people think an interview between Stalin and Wells is a W-T-F. What better way to understand differing views than to sit down and talk. I really don't understand the notion that suppressing an argument will make it go away. It reminds me of security through obfuscation.

<comment><USER8> > _What better way to understand differing views than to sit down and talk. I > really don 't understand the notion that suppressing an argument will make > it go away. It reminds me of security through obfuscation._

Not only suppressing your oposition is a wrong way to go if you care about "understanding differing views", it seems to me as a pretty lame way to do things even if you want to just get rid of it. A better way is to figure out a way to satisfy them somehow, so that they lose momentum.

Why not, instead of directly silencing your opponent, go to him and say: "We hear you, we understand you're angry, people have a right to hear it. you know what? How about we give you a late-night talk show. We can talk to the News Source, they'll open up a slot for you. You'll even get paid properly, so you can funnel this money into furthering your cause if you so choose."

And then you can just sit and watch how your oposition disappears into background.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


An oldy but a goody – BLAST - <AUTHOR> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2231712 <comment><AUTHOR> It's too bad that while the implementation has been free all these years, the paper is still behind a paywall.

<comment><USER2> There are literally dozens of copies of the paper available with minimal effort.

<comment><AUTHOR> Sure, but it's the principle of the thing.</comment></comment></comment>


The Hunting of Billie Holiday (2015) - <AUTHOR> https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/drug-war-the-hunting-of-billie-holiday-114298 <comment><USER2> People need to understand that the War on Drugs was never about protecting the populace from hurting themselves with recreational chemicals.

It was always a pretext for control and manipulation, and still is to this day.

<comment><USER3> I don't disagree that the War on Drugs was misguided and generally not a good idea - practically or morally. But I'm not sure that what it was "about" can be cleanly defined. We can always find the shadowy figures that had different intentions, but I think it's safe to say that the popular support which enabled the effort was pretty solidly motivated by protecting people.

<comment><USER4> On this point, history has chosen to be stranger than the after-the-fact musings of rational humanists would typically allow:

"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."

\-- John Ehrlichman

<comment><USER5> This quote is brought up often but it should be taken with some skepticism. As user GatorD42 pointed out when this was brought up before:

>...Baum claims Ehrlichman said that to him in 1994 while he was researching for a book he published in 1996 about the drug war. He didn't include the quote in that book, but instead published it in 2012 and again in 2016, after Ehrlichman had died (in 1999).

This is a very explosive quote - if Baum had included it in his book in 1996 I am sure it would have garnered a huge amount of attention for the book. Instead Baum did not include it in his book, but instead would wait for decades later when Ehrlichman was no longer around to dispute the quote.

At any rate, if the quote was actually said by Ehrlichman, it isn't a very accurate description of the drug polices of the Nixon administration. While Nixon is remembered for "war on drugs" rhetoric, the actual substance of his policies seem to be different than what people think it was:

>...I have been fortunate over the years to discuss the distorted memory of Nixon's drug policies with almost all of his key advisors as well as with historians. Their consensus is that because he was dramatically expanding the U.S. treatment system (by 350% in just 18 months!) and cutting criminal penalties, he had to reassure his right wing that he hadn't gone soft. So he laid on some of the toughest anti-drug rhetoric in history, including making a White House speech declaring a "war on drugs" and calling drugs "public enemy number one". It worked so well as cover that many people remember that "tough" press event and forget that what Nixon did at it was introduce not a general or a cop or a preacher to be his drug policy chief but…a medical doctor (Jerry Jaffe, a sweet, bookish man who had longish hair and sideburns and often wore the Mickey Mouse tie his kids had given him).

[https://www.samefacts.com/who-started-the-war-on- drugs/](https://www.samefacts.com/who-started-the-war-on-drugs/)

>..."Enforcement must be coupled with a rational approach to the reclamation of the drug user himself," Nixon told Congress in 1971. "We must rehabilitate the drug user if we are to eliminate drug abuse and all the antisocial activities that flow from drug abuse." >The numbers back this up. According to the federal government's budget numbers for anti-drug programs, the "demand" side of the war on drugs (treatment, education, and prevention) consistently got more funding during Nixon's time in office (1969 to 1974) than the "supply" side (law enforcement and interdiction).

>Historically, this is a commitment for treating drugs as a public health issue that the federal government has not replicated since the 1970s. (Although President Barack Obama's budget proposal would, for the first time in decades, put a majority of anti-drug spending on the demand side once again.) ...

[https://www.vox.com/2016/3/29/11325750/nixon-war-on- drugs](https://www.vox.com/2016/3/29/11325750/nixon-war-on-drugs)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> The submitted link seems to go to page 3 of an unformatted version of the story. Here is the full story's canonical link: [https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/drug-war- the...](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/drug-war-the-hunting- of-billie-holiday-114298)

<comment><USER7> Fixed. Thanks!</comment></comment>


A Brief IPython Notebook on Cryptography - <AUTHOR> http://davidlowryduda.com/?p=1956 <comment><USER2> It's worth noting that Caesar's ciphertext presumably worked better in Latin than it does in English, largely due to the fact that classical Latin, in emulation of Greek, did not include spaces between words.</comment>


SpaceX's Falcon Heavy could launch for the first time as soon as Feb 6 - <AUTHOR> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-29/spacex-s-new-beast-of-a-rocket-is-go-for-launch <comment><USER2> Discussed previously:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16246089](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16246089)

</comment><comment><USER3> > Because of the experimental nature of the first flight, and perhaps as a way > to burnish the spectacle, Musk decided the payload will be his personal > Roadster sports car made by another one of his companies, Tesla Inc., that > will be set to play David Bowie's "Space Oddity" on repeat as it's hurled > into the deep beyond.

How cool is that? I hope they have a camera on that car, so we can see it in the video stream.

<comment><USER4> They must have. No other car brand will ever have marketing material that compares to a Tesla being pictured while actually in space.

<comment><USER5> They will, but they'll buy the trip up from SpaceX.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Ground control to Major Tom or Elon... This is exciting, 3 reusable rockets flying back to Earth playing Space Oddity. I think the car needs a good playlist. Something from 2001 would work plus a bit of metal.

</comment><comment><USER7> What are the chances of it launching as scheduled? I've dreamed of seeing it but I only have a one day window to fly down and back because of some work obligations.

<comment><USER8> Well, it has been postponed quite a few times so I figure with every postponement the chances of it working are going up, but I would not be surprised if they postpone it again.

And I'd rather have them postpone it once more than take chances, if it works the first time that would be awesome.

<comment><USER7> Tfa says the best viewing spots are sold out! I don't think I can justify the flight and missing work to view from 7 miles away. My wife will be relieved but man what a disappointment.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Can someone compile meaningful stats comparing this rocket to other well-known rockets? Pounds of thrust or whatnot...?

</comment><comment><USER10> With that many people watching from the road, how does SpaceX guard against threats? I imagine there are just enough crazy people out there with motivation to get attention by taking shots at it with their rifles. Is it far enough away from the road to be safe from a sniper attack?

<comment><USER11> Seven miles is WAY outside the range of any sniper rifle.

<comment><USER12> > _Seven miles is WAY outside the range of any sniper rifle_

For context, a 14.5x114mm cartridge fires to about 1.5 miles; the more popular .308 Winchester cartridge only goes half a mile [1].

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper_rifle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper_rifle)

<comment><USER13> The longest confirmed kill is 3,540m with a .50 BMG.

A 50 cal can go well beyond that the chances of hitting a man sized target are pretty slim that said it's maximum range is 7000m hitting a space rocket sized target is quite possible at that range.

With bigger caliber rifles like the ones used for avalanche control you probably can get to 7 miles and beyond but those are effectively cannons at that point.

That said if you really want to fuck up a launch there are plenty of drones or RC planes that you could use to ram the rocket with or without an explosive payload.

Which is why they launch from a military base with arguably quite good perimeter security that goes well beyond the range of its fence.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> The first flight of the Falcon Heavy promises to be a public spectacle, with NASA selling out $195 viewing party tickets.

<comment><USER14> I'm just a touch sad that NASA is selling tickets for an endeavour one would have ideally hoped they would have spearheaded.

<comment><USER15> Sadly, the taxpayers don't seem to understand the value of having a publicly funded space program</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: The Problem with Apple's "Decline in Quality" - <AUTHOR>

This is a great article: http://www.marco.org/2015/01/04/apple-lost-functional-high-ground
I have been an Apple user since the early 1980s. I would consider myself an advanced user. I am a Web
Applications Developer who pushes his OS and computer pretty hard.
I have heard quite a lot lately about the decline of Apple's software quality. Marco's piece linked above is a good read and he is not alone in claiming Apple's quality is declining. There is one thing that really confuses me about all this:
I can't see anything wrong.
I'm running the latest OSX and iOS, use multiple Apple apps (Calendar, Pages, Keynote, iPhone, etc. I don't use Mail however) as well as various other third-party apps. I store data on iCloud. Despite using my computer 8 hours a day every day, I really can't see any of these various issues people talk about.
I have a feeling for every person who experiences a particular bug, there are millions who don't experience that bug.
While people may look back at Apple from 10 years ago and say the quality was much better then, Apple of today is doing much more advance things.
I do agree that Apple needs to use their rapid release cycle to fix bugs, not push out new features which may not be fully ready.
What are your thoughts? <comment><USER2> I frequent a forum for Apple fans and I've seen there's a mix of experiences. Some people have perfectly fine experiences. Other people's computers are so messed up they're better off with an exorcist than the Genius Bar.

A lot of the problems sound like hardware problems, and it may just be a symptom of having more hardware out there. And that hardware is being used more intensely. Bad hard drives, bad RAM...it all contributes to problems. Let's not ignore very real hardware problems like the bad GPU solder joints.

The traditional advice that Macs don't get viruses still holds. But who writes "viruses" anymore? The "beginner" category has people getting all sorts of malware installed alongside pirated software, keygens, "codecs", and other things they downloaded & gave sudo access during the install. Like on other platforms, that kind of stuff is going to slow your system down & make it behave differently.

And let's be honest - there are actual bugs. Some are downright terrible. iOS 8.3 __finally __fixes a text selection bug that 's been driving me nuts on some sites, including Hacker News. All software has bugs. Mine sure does! But it feels worse when surrounded by all the other stuff.

If you're not a developer, you get no feedback from Apple on your bug reports, which makes you feel alone in your suffering. And that may be the key for Apple right there. Break down the wall of silence, engage with people reporting bugs, and maybe individual things will seem less tragic.

</comment><comment><USER3> I'm a OS-X user since Leopard. I did the switch from FreeBSD because of the need for professional photo editing software. I can tell in the bast 12 months my OS-X has frozen 6-7 times (Yes I called the customer service, did hardware tests). Before Yosemite and Mavericks, the years before the last one my MAC freeze on me maybe twice.</comment>