Paperwork: An open source Evernote alternative - <AUTHOR> http://paperwork.rocks/?hn (note: i'm not the author, but i believe he's welcoming help in taking it further) <comment><USER2> As other's have mentioned, the WebUI is a major no-no.

Evernote's strength lies in its Desktop application and very useful clipping service.

The fact that Evernote uses its own cloud storage instead of say an encrypted folder in Google Drive/Dropbox etc is a negative of the service. Sync is required but implemented in the most undesirable way in Evernote currently.

Paperwork is promising, but seems to have replicated the negative of Evernote, while foregoing the reason why people use Evernote in the first place.

So, if you want to Paperwork to take off:

1\. Implement it as an offline Chrome App with Dropbox+Google Drive sync. 2\. Implement a web clipping+screenshot extension.

<comment><USER3> That makes me think, has anyone tried to build a note taking app based on git? A tricky part for this kind of app is networking and synchronization of notes, and that's all taken care of by git. The "only" thing left would be to implement the mobile and desktop front ends.

<comment><USER4> Magpie, which I think was on HN a few weeks back, is an attempt at precisely this.

[https://magpie-notes.readthedocs.org/en/latest/](https://magpie- notes.readthedocs.org/en/latest/)

<comment><USER5> I must have missed it a few weeks back, but thanks for mentioning this because it's just what I need!

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> It's a good start, but I feel the UX could do with some refinement. Why is there no default notebook upon signup? Why isn't there a big fat "Add a note" button on the top of the list of notes? Why do I have to explicitly press save after editing a note? And why is is soe obscure icon of a floppy disk, instead of a button with the text "Save changes" on it? Etc.

All the functionality is there, but as I see it, an app like this is all about good UX and very little about the technical features.

<comment><USER7> > And why is is soe obscure icon of a floppy disk, instead of a button with > the text "Save changes" on it?

If you've ever tried to use a computer in a foreign country, you'll realise why icons are an extremely good idea.

I agree the floppy disk symbol is dated though, as is having to save a file.

<comment><USER8> No. People make the mistake of thinking symbols are universal. They are not. Symbols are always interpreted in the context of the user's culture. A cross in the US might mean ambulance or hospital but it means something different in Turkey. Icons are not substitutes for internationalization. Floppy disk icon might not translate well in China given that it was dead by the time computers became common in China. It probably doesn't even translate well in the US with younger users.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Looks like a good start!

I played around with it a bit and it's still pretty far from being a true Evernote alternative.

A lot of the value in Evernote comes from its crazy powerful search and rich ecosystem. Both are currently still lacking in Paperwork.

As of yet, it does not search within PDF documents and it does use OCR to extract text from images, though both could be achieved with open source technologies such as Solr and Tesseract.

The lack of ecosystem (iOS/Android apps, desktop integration etc.) also makes sense, but the APIs are all there, so there is no stopping anyone from adding those.

</comment><comment><USER10> I dream of a future where there is a standard rest interface for cloud file storage, that somebody will put an API in front of any non-compliant services, and that applications can talk to any datastore with minimal hacking.

This has been done before with, eg ODBC.

<comment><USER11> Here's some projects you should check out:

* RemoteStorage.js[1] (they plan on adding support for Dropbox, Drive, etc.)

* CloudRail[2] (nonfree source)

* CloudDock[3] (proxy service)

* byoFS.js[4] (encrypted cloud storage, I maintain this)

[1]: [https://github.com/remotestorage/remotestorage.js](https://github.com/remotestorage/remotestorage.js)

[2]: [http://cloudrail.com/](http://cloudrail.com/)

[3]: [http://clouddock.co/](http://clouddock.co/)

[4]: [https://github.com/diafygi/byoFS](https://github.com/diafygi/byoFS)

<comment><USER12> Camlistore [https://camlistore.org/community](https://camlistore.org/community)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Another open source Evernote/Onenote alternative is TagSpaces(tagspaces.org) It runs completely offline on Windows, Linux, Mac OSX and Android, and since recently it features a server edition, running on top of a ownCloud installation.

<comment><USER14> Tagspaces is nice. Works the same on Linux, Mac, and Android (probably Windows and iOS too, I haven't tried). I like that it doesn't try to tackle note taking _and_ synchronization. You can use dropbox/spideroak/btsync/owncloud/whatever-you-lik for that.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> For note taking I use the open sourced Notational Velocity [1] (actually I use nvAlt [2] which is a fork that has some extra features like Markdown support). My two favorite features are that it can store your notes as plain text files in a folder of your choice, plus there's syncing through Dropbox or Simplenote. Notational Velocity is a Mac app, but with Simplenote you get x-platform support.

[1] [http://notational.net/](http://notational.net/)

[2] [http://brettterpstra.com/projects/nvalt/](http://brettterpstra.com/projects/nvalt/)

<comment><USER16> Yeah, I love Simplenote sooo much. The official app got a lot better when Automattic took over, so I use that on Android, but NV on Mac and ResophNotes on Win7 are excellent.

Not good for rich text and images and web clippings and such, just great plain text syncing.

<comment><USER17> I love simplenote too, replaced my notepad.exe.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> How is this different than Wallabag? ([http://wallabag.org/](http://wallabag.org/)) Wallabag is mature, has mobile apps, self hosted or on their servers and allows you to export stuff as PDF, epub or json.

<comment><USER19> I'm not seeing that they're claiming to be better than anything, just a, "self-hosted alternative to services like Evernote (R), Microsoft OneNote (R) or Google Keep (R)."

Are you a contributor to Wallabag?

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> Nice! I've been using Evernote for a while now. I have a MacBook Pro I use for work, but I use Linux at home. After using both the web client (because that's my only option in Linux except Wine) and the native OS X client, it's clear that the Web Client is lacking.

I'm looking forward to an open source alternative.

</comment><comment><USER21> Nice beginning!

I agree with everyone that the UX needs some clean-up (default notebook created automatically, large Add Note button, etc.), however, there is one functionality that Evernote removed a long time ago, and I'm still searching for an alternative, and this new app also doesn't support it.

The feature to create unlimited child notes. It used to be that you could have a tree structure with a parent note, then a few child notes, then a child of those child notes, etc., but last I checked, there's only one layer of depth. Only one child note can be created for each notebook and you can't set that child to be the parent of another note. I love all the other features, such as tagging, clipping, etc., but this was a killer feature that I haven't found anywhere else.

Do any of you know an alternative app that has this feature in a note-taking application?

<comment><USER22> Workflowy is basically a exactly this: a tree of nested items. It's more bullet-point style but works for quite well for me.

[https://workflowy.com/](https://workflowy.com/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> I'm surprised to see that NeverNote hasn't been mentioned yet.

[http://nevernote.sourceforge.net/](http://nevernote.sourceforge.net/)

<comment><USER24> Isn't nevernote just an evernote front end? This appears to be a service, not just a client.

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> I've been looking at a good document management/note-taking app, to use in legal work, and I've found it surprisingly difficult. My needs are simple: 1) Rich-text notetaking; 2) DOCX/PDF markup, ideally with annotation extraction; 3) indexing and search of DOCX/PDF with preview; 4) drag & drop desktop integration; 5) mac + pc. The cloud-only solutions are right-out. Evernote comes pretty close to hitting all the points, and the Skitch-derived PDF annotation summary is awesome, but the Mac/PC databases aren't compatible so they can't be put on a shared drive.

<comment><USER26> I am starting to think that those kind of features should be integrated with the OS. So many cloud style apps are just irrelevant because they sit in their own ecosystem that excludes how most businesses actually organise things (with files on shared drives). I should be able to annotate things with the same set of tools and have the OS intermediate.

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> I just created an account with fake data and it looks quite promising. Are there plans to recreate the function of the Evernote Webclipper?

I love Evernote. Since they are very slow and expensive, a real competitor would be great for them.

</comment><comment><USER28> I think with open source user tools (as opposed to developer tools) you are better off directing your effort to projects which already exist.

That's not to say that you can't or shouldn't try to scratch an itch. It just seems that attempting to create an alternative to Evernote is a target which is unlikely to be successful as an open source project or as a commercial project. Evernote has a budget, a full time, full-stack development team and lots of mojo. You aren't going to create a better Evernote. Instead, you should aim to create a far more powerful tool to address the target which Evernote is shooting for. That's the only way a small, scrappy dev shop with a product lacking polish is going to rattle a much larger competitor. Sure, this is open source, but it still needs to be compelling enough to grab momentum.

If you feel you don't have an answer which is much better, then perhaps throw your weight behind an existing open source project which is already kicking ass in that space. For example, Org Mode is arguably far more powerful than Evernote. There are pros and cons of each, but part of your effort could be in addressing the weaknesses of Org Mode.

<comment><USER29> As a (beginning) org-mode user I'd say a few people will never use org-mode.

As a person who works or has worked for a few companies that would never accept sending company data out to evernote I say making a better product for them shouldn't be too hard as long as you can install it locally. ("old" OneNote 2010 is brilliant here, but the new one insist on logging into the cloud. Fortunately the old one is more than good enough for now although I have a few things I'd really love to see. )

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> Good stuff. This would be a nice project to have running on Sandstorm [http://sandstorm.io](http://sandstorm.io)

<comment><USER31> sandstorm looks really interesting! Does this provide a global authentication- / rights- / group-management api so all apps could share access rights and user credentials in one database (or ldap store)?

<comment><USER32> I don't know the current status but these are things that are core to sandstorm. I'd check their discussion board and maybe ask if you want a clear answer. They're a pretty serious bunch.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> Another nice, open source and very simple note taking web app is [http://laverna.cc/](http://laverna.cc/)

<comment><USER34> > we are using IndexedDB and localStorage

Unless you hook it up to a cloud service, it's more or less dependent on your local browser storage which is easily lost.

<comment><USER33> "Synchronizes with cloud storage services (at this time only Dropbox and RemoteStorage are supported)"

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> Interesting, I am curious if this can be used by psychiatrist / psychologist who need to take patient notes. Notes need to shared between psychiatrist / psychologist / social worker. Typically a patient needs all three. Also the notes would need to be secure (hipaa) compliant. I wonder how much work would be needed to build a MVP using paperwork as a start.

<comment><USER36> My company iCouch has what you're talking about in the new version we're launching Feb 6. However, we are HIPAA as well as HITECH compliant. The HIPPA compliance is a bit with the code, but more in how your infrastructure is organized and your policies in place. One of our (almost) competitors TherapyNotes does almost exactly what you're describing. I say almost not to disparage but because notes are their core business, while for us, notes are just one feature of the platform.

If you want to chat more email me at brian at iCouch.me. I'd be glad to share some knowledge about the space if you want.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> I kinda hoped for a satirical website which advertised the usage of pen and paper for taken notes. I'm disappointed now.

</comment><comment><USER38> I ditched evernote after I lost my data twice. Sadly I have yet to find a solution which I feel would be an adequate replacement. Even Paperwork is far from it. Either the proposed alternative is even buggier than evernote, or it doesn't implement the full featureset I need.

I kind of feel that for me the pinnacle of Evernote was version 3. The lure of being able to dump _any_ information into it and sort it later was basically what got me using it. I could launch the app, type in "Phil", and get Phils contact details from a business card I scanned in previously. I even used it a few times to save maps and a travel itineracy to my phone for conferences I attended. As the marketing put it, it was like a reliable "second brain". I don't think any of the alternatives I have tried have nailed this at all.

<comment><USER39> How did you lose your data twice?

<comment> chris-at I only lost my data once but that was enough. My note got stuck in a sync conflict (even visible in the logs).

Support told me to save my note before moving to another device ... I guess I was the first user to forget that. They never apologized for their bug and I was a paid user back then.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> I would suggest to consider TiddlyWiki instead: It's open source, it is a super simple low-tech solution (it's just one self-contained file) _and_ it comes with built-in encryption. You can additionally just put it in your Dropbox to have it automatically versioned and synchronized.

</comment><comment><USER41> Another dissapointment. I want personal Wiki combined with calendar (something like Zim). It should run acrosss many devices offline. And synchronize using existing network infrastructure (Git or email). I will probably have to write it by myself :-)

<comment><USER42> I've actually abandoned evernote in favor of zim wiki for almost a year now, and have been quite happy. Admittedly, I don't use pdfs, deferring more to text and basic image-style notes. (So, my requirements are admittedly simpler.) Also I haven't synched across devices (yet!) but zim can be set up to simply save the content/notes within a directory that gets auto-synched by another app (such as owncloud, dropbox, etc.)...so I would recommend you try these features of zim wiki before writing something yourself. I think if you gain some direct experience with these features will either motivate you to adjust the zim code to your liking...Or, give you experience to know what direction and specific feature set you would like to code via your own, separate project. Either way its a win for you, and the open source community!

<comment><USER41> I synchronize Zim via Git plugin. I am happy with Zim, I just would like better UI, native android, and perhaps calendar and even email integration.

I did quick search, and it actually looks feasible. Libs are available, PyQT, text file for storage, sync and storage reliability provided by Git. I even picked up name 'Lookout' :-). Now I only need the right motivation, perhaps if akonadi or k9 mail piss me off again.

<comment><USER43> I think Zim is the best thing out there at the moment. Is it trivial to encrypt via the Git plugin?

<comment><USER41> Not really

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER44> There's also Simplenote. I can recommend it. It's pretty cool, it's just plaintext, and it just works. I migrated to it after I got sick of the formatting in Evernote getting screwed up and sync issues causing data loss.

<comment><USER45> Simplenote is not open source.

<comment><USER46> But the API is entirely open, so you can use an open source client.

<comment><USER47> But for any meaningful kind of data freedom you have to own the server, not just the client.

<comment><USER46> The server is so simple it would be remarkably easy to reproduce based simply on the API spec.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER48> Is there a way to do something meaningful with the demo without creating an account?

<comment><USER9> You don't have to use a real email to register (there is no verification), so just use anything@anything and you're good.

</comment></comment><comment><USER49> I would have liked if Paperwork (or any other note-taking app) had the option storing your notes in text files (plain or markdown). Then, the back up and syncing could be handled by Dropbox/Sugarsync/other.

</comment><comment><USER50> I periodically check for good open source alternatives to Evernote.

Previously I found

[https://github.com/grena/gruik](https://github.com/grena/gruik) Demo [http://gruik.io/](http://gruik.io/)

[https://github.com/shubik22/BetterNote](https://github.com/shubik22/BetterNote) Which clones the Evernote UI, demo [http://www.betternote.us/](http://www.betternote.us/)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> I'm not the author, but I believe he's welcoming any help on taking this further. There's a neatly organized list of things to do in the Github issues.[1]

See also his request for help on HN.[2]

[1] [https://github.com/twostairs/paperwork/issues](https://github.com/twostairs/paperwork/issues)

[2] [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8942823](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8942823)

</comment><comment><USER51> I am not familiar with Evernote and the other tools -- but when I try to test Paperwork, I got stuck:

How can I create a note? When I press "New note" simply nothing happens. I can take no notes, add no documents -- nothing. Just two big white areas that are plainly saying and doing nothing.

Ok, I found the problem: When I use "German" interface language, it does not work. With English interface language there comes a new dialog. Guess, this is a bug.

<comment><USER52> You should submit an issue on Github :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER53> I've been thinking about something like this for a long time! But mainly focused on security and privacy features! This one looks good as a starting point!

</comment><comment><USER54> Also, for those who want to try it out, and don't want to register, I made an account:

username: test

pass: testtest

email: firstname.lastname@example.com

This is awesome, definitely a great start (as others have said). I'm currently working on a similar thing (in that it is open source and replaces some of the pay/ad-powered products that exist in that area) and appreciated seeing this.

Have you considered starting a small hosted service?

</comment><comment><USER55> This looks very promising.

Could you please share the roadmap? When is the support for desktop clients planned?

When can evernote documents be migrated?

</comment><comment><USER56> I think a very simple step that could be taken to improve adoption would be making it more obvious that you don't need an email to try the demo. I would mention it right on the demo "Signup" page.

Judging by some of the comments here, something that simple would likely get more people to try it.

<comment><USER57> How do you get past the signin page without using an email?

<comment><USER52> You can use a fake email account, such as firstname.lastname@example.com

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER58> The plethora of interesting alternatives mentioned in the comments looks like an indicator that instead of one more however well done attempt at solving the problem we actually need a set of well defined protocols and formats that allow for interoperable solutions that suit everyones needs.

</comment><comment><USER59> Amazing! You should use the "Heroku Button" for a quickily implementation

[https://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/heroku- button](https://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/heroku-button)

</comment><comment><USER60> Is there an open source version of the Evernote web clipper or something similar to Pocket? I would love that.

</comment><comment><USER61> Why is an account needed for the demo??? That turned me off enough to give up. I am tired of having to create an account for everything and anything - and it makes managing passwords harder, or promotes using weaker passwords. I don't want to live in a world where each step I take on the internet requires a separate account/password!

<comment><USER19> I guess this doesn't bother me anymore. I've used Lastpass for the last 5 or 6 years. Not having strong, separate passwords for any site requiring an account, is so 2007...

<comment><USER56> My experience as well. Plus, my passwords became stronger. If I know I won't remember it anyway, why stop at 10-15 character passwords? I just crank it up to 40 characters of gibberish, and let LastPass do the remembering. I love it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER62> Looks nice but who knows if it will be maintained five years from now?

<comment><USER63> Nobody can guarantee that, but it's open source so _you_ can always do it yourself. I would be more worried about Evernote, Dropbox, Google Calender and other proprietary solutions, because if they decide to close the service, there's not much you can do about it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER64> "...web UI..." oh no. Not really an alternative then.

</comment><comment><USER65> The website with its light gray text on white background is very hard to read. Consider joining the contrast rebellion [http://contrastrebellion.com/](http://contrastrebellion.com/)

</comment><comment><USER66> I really love it when an open source alternative born.

Will check this out!

</comment><comment><USER67> Cool stuff.

Multiplatform is the difficult part.

</comment><comment><USER31> Very good initiative, thank you very much!

If you would like to switch to are more capable framework it would be much easier to add some collaborative features. I recommend strongly looking at the Python Pyramid framework or at Flask (or at Django, if you want more "rails that lead you") as soon as possible, so this could grow into something really powerful. Many java frameworks also have everything you will need.

Unfortunately there are still many frameworks used nowadays, that are missing very important things around groups, ACLs / RBAC and collaboration. I do not know why, but especially in the PHP world these things seem to be looked at as some "advanced science", with a few exceptions.

Not integrating these features from the very beginning into your product will determine the long term direction of your project without you even knowing about it. This is the dangerous result of using popular, but very limited and limiting frameworks that do not support your growth.

An experienced developer will of course identify these weak points of a framework immediately, unfortunately many people still waste a lot of time with these misleading trap-frameworks, just because they are cool today.

It is important to spot at the weaknesses of these half-assed "frameworks" and clearly tag them as dangerous for serious project work. Laravel is ok for a quick and dirty prototype that helps you to model your ideas, like a brainstorming session, but should not be used for a real project. And this modelling phase should be very short, quickly moving on to the more involved engineering process that takes all aspects of a modern web app into consideration.

Hopefully it is not too late for your project to switch - it will be a very good investment of time, I promise!

<comment><USER68> I think a lot of what you are saying is completely untrue. Laravel is a very capable framework for this kind of thing. PHP has come a long way since the days of PHP4, and Laravel/Symfony 2 are leading the way in that sense.

> _Unfortunately there are still many frameworks used nowadays, that are > missing very important things around groups, ACLs / RBAC and collaboration._

The framework doesn't give you everything, but there is a huge community out there for these kinds of things. For example, there is a package that plugs right into Laravel called Entrust: [https://github.com/Zizaco/entrust](https://github.com/Zizaco/entrust).

> _An experienced developer will of course identify these weak points of a > framework immediately_

What other weak points do you see in Laravel?

> _Laravel is ok for a quick and dirty prototype that helps you to model your > ideas, like a brainstorming session, but should not be used for a real > project._

This seems like an extremely biased opinion again.

I am not trying to start a framework or language flamewar, but it just seems like you are more comfortable with Java or Python and as such you see those as being better. Objectively I think that is far from the truth.</comment></comment>


Show HN: DepthAI/MegaAI – Medical mask detector trainer on Collab - <AUTHOR> https://colab.research.google.com/github/luxonis/depthai-ml-training/blob/master/colab-notebooks/Medical_Mask_Detection_Demo_Training.ipynb <comment><AUTHOR> This trainer is one of several features we've been developing to make implementation of vision-based AI super easy. The entire DepthAI API allows users to leverage the Intel Myriad X SDK for use with DepthAI and MegaAI hardware.

We've also made most of our hardware open source (github.com/luxonis) so that end users can develop with our Myriad X modules for integration into their specific devices.

The DepthAI hardware we've made can run "spatial AI", which combines hardware- level passive stereo depth along with inference to generate metadata which describes not only what's detected, but where it's detected.

Our latest module, MegaAI, combines a 12MP camera with the Myriad X in form factor half the size of credit card. The hardware features ([https://www.crowdsupply.com/luxonis/megaai#hardware- features](https://www.crowdsupply.com/luxonis/megaai#hardware-features)) include 4k60 max stream rate, hardware image and video encoding, 2.5W max power consumption, and of course 4TOPs inference power. All power and data is through a single USB cable.</comment>


Finland: World's youngest prime minister and a government led by women - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/09/world/europe/finland-prime-minister-sanna-marin.html <comment><AUTHOR> The government program in short:

1) Fight against inequality

2) Fight against climate change

3) Strengthen the public school system

[https://valtioneuvosto.fi/en/rinne/government- programme](https://valtioneuvosto.fi/en/rinne/government-programme)

</comment><comment><USER2> Great success for that age. I'm 4 years younger than her and sitting in my living room, completing my pokedex in Pokemon Sword.

<comment><USER3> On the other hand, what do you think her Pokédex look like!?

<comment><USER2> She will be too busy leading a country. I believe she has people managing her Pokédex.

<comment> toper-centage Even the guy that invented the Pokedex was too busy to complete it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> This shouldn't be news. In the sense that it should be just as commonplace as a bunch of 70 year old men being in charge.

<comment><USER5> If people spend their lives trying to get into positions of power and wealth, then why would it make sense that 34 year olds would be more likely to be running things than people with 40 years more experience, more connections, and more money?

It's almost a thermodynamic law, that snowball has been rolling longer and it's bigger.

Should it be the case? I don't know. There's an argument to be made for having a person from a new generation with new ideas, but there's also an argument to be made for experience and having seen similar situations in the past, having a larger frame of reference.

<comment><USER6> I remember going around floating the idea there aught to be an age limit for executive positions. Most peoples response was negative. Then I saw that Jimmy Carter said the same thing.

[https://www.rollcall.com/news/video/jimmy-carter-hope- theres...](https://www.rollcall.com/news/video/jimmy-carter-hope-theres-age- limit-run-president)

<comment><USER7> Discrimination on age is bad, just as it is bad when we do it based on skin colour or gender. Let's just hire people that are going to do well and stop worrying whether or not they have the right colour hair or they eat the right type of carrot the right amount of times each week.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> The US isn't far behind: [https://reason.com/2019/01/03/good-news-ladies-the- military-...](https://reason.com/2019/01/03/good-news-ladies-the-military- industrial/)</comment>


Ask HN: Would you pay for web browser? - <AUTHOR> Would you pay a monthly fee for a web browser? What features would it need to have? How much could you spend on it?<p>If not, then why not? :) <comment><USER2> I would pay a monthly fee for a web browser if

1\. It could be bundled into my monthly internet bill

2\. The fee was not more than 10 USD

3\. The browser had actively developed ad blocking and

4\. Nuisance blocking and

5\. Tracking protection and

6\. The browser used less memory than competitors

By nuisances I mean cookie notifications, subscription requests, anti-ad- blocking messages, etc. By actively developed I mean I get an update every month, and the developers are actively testing and researching the features. Strict standards compliance could take a back seat to these features, as long as it could adequately render a page. Features that might make up for one of the desiderata above would be

1\. Media ripping (if this could be done in a way that would respect publisher rights) or

2\. Macros, down to mouse movements and key presses

</comment><comment><USER3> No, because we already have some really really good free options. Closest I'd get to paying is Brave, which is built on Chromium anyway and does crypto micro-transactions for ads etc.

</comment><comment><USER4> I would, if it promoted my business. And I'd spend as much as humanly possible on it if it got my LTV:CAC ratio to 4:1.</comment>


Put your phone in do not disturb mode forever - <AUTHOR> https://theoutline.com/post/6063/put-your-phone-in-do-not-disturb-mode-forever?zd=1&zi=6es25dst <comment><USER2> My phone has been this way for at least 2 years. probably closer to 4.

It's mostly fantastic. Highly recommended. The sky does not fall.

Did nothing to curb the addition, however. I still check incessantly. Just unprompted.

Also, turn your read receipts on. It's a form of honesty that helps people form a realistic picture of what's going on with you (that sometimes you can see something, but don't have the time/energy/care to reply). I find this casual boundary to be healthy. It also pressures you to be more courteous to people where it counts (you can ignore this person, but they'll know. act accordingly)

</comment><comment><USER3> Am I the only person who just denies notifications from every app? The only time my phone buzzes or bings or lights up is for texts, calls and voicemail. And I'm still considering following this advice!

<comment><USER4> My phone is on silent 24×7 (with vibrations allowed for texts and calls, but not from emails), and on dnd from 10pm to 8am. I seriously consider putting it in dnd mode 24×7.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Mine is always in do not disturb.

The only thing that makes noise is if someone calls me.

I also don't use any "social" media really. I spend 10 mins here on HN every morning and night though.

</comment><comment><USER6> Done this, also unfollowed every friend on Facebook. Never went back.

</comment><comment><USER4> It's a bit peculiar that an author who pimps dnd mode chooses a design with an animated line moving in your visual field.

</comment><comment><USER7> I do this too, only clients (but they learn), mom and girlfriend are sometimes mildly annoyed :)</comment>


Not enough Covid vaccine for all until 2024, says biggest producer - <AUTHOR> https://www.ft.com/content/a832d5d7-4a7f-42cc-850d-8757f19c3b6b <comment><USER2> I wonder if governments around the world are thinking more about manufacturing and distribution since we have promising early results. Bill Gates & his foundation have been talking about how 7 billion doses vaccines will be produced [1] and distributed equitably [2].

[1] [https://www.gatesnotes.com/Health/What-you-need-to-know- abou...](https://www.gatesnotes.com/Health/What-you-need-to-know-about-the- COVID-19-vaccine)

[2] [https://www.gatesfoundation.org/TheOptimist/Articles/coronav...](https://www.gatesfoundation.org/TheOptimist/Articles/coronavirus- gavi)</comment>


Aleksey Vayner, The Laughing Stock of the Internet, Has Died at 29  - <AUTHOR> http://motherboard.vice.com/motherboard/motherboardArticle/preview/4466?pvt=09a1fbb287caa5ad6364c935def0780b

<comment><AUTHOR> ah crumbs. this is the wrong link. but this is the correct link. <http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/aleksey-vayner-death-video>

<comment><USER2> I've submitted it here: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5112777>

That submission means no on else can submit it, but if you want to submit the proper URL then reply here to let me know and I'll delete my submission so you can submit it instead. Then you could delete this one and no one would ever know.

You'll need to be quick, though, before anyone replies. It's had one upvote already and I'd be reluctant to delete it if it gets many more - it looks like gaming the system.

 _Added in edit after 30 minutes: Too late - it's gained traction._</comment></comment>


I Call This Blackmail - <AUTHOR> http://m.gizmodo.com/5814035/i-call-this-blackmail

<comment><USER2> Submitted 13 hours ago: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2680550>

There's no discussion there - I add this link purely for completeness.</comment>


Chinese students increasingly return home after studying abroad - <AUTHOR> https://qz.com/1342525/chinese-students-increasingly-return-home-after-studying-abroad/ <comment><USER2> The ramifications of this trend -- and the likely political responses, considering the current responses -- will be interesting (to say the least). My rough prognostication (tuned for the U.S.):

* Western leaders (the U.S. in particular) will see this as a threat to their technological/economic dominance.

* In response, the number of educational visas will be severely limited at some point.

* Universities dependent on foreign students paying full tuition, especially smaller ones, will find themselves suddenly (or not-so-suddenly) strapped for cash.

* These colleges will lobby against visa restrictions, prompting further criticism from nationalist/populist entities/organizations, who will seek additional restrictions on loans/funding for such universities.

* Within 10-30 years, the capital crunch will eventually force smaller universities to merge (if possible) or close altogether.

* The wave of closures further damages technological innovation, harming overall economic output.

* The economic downturn results in even further cuts to university/college funding, creating a vicious cycle that ends only when most small universities are gone, leaving only massive state universities and a few small niche/boutique universities catering to elites.

I'm sure it won't turn out exactly like that -- and besides, closing some of the more expensive universities may help bring tuitions down in general -- but given the current political climate, I see the situation only getting worse before it gets better.

</comment><comment> loa-in-backup With Chinese birth control in place they are probably driven by will to help their parents out, because if not them, then who will

<comment><USER3> they will take care of themselves if they can afford to sponsor their children aboard

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Way more opportunities in China to make a lot of money, especially after studying abroad and bringing western ideas back home. I am not Chinese, but speaking from experience.

<comment><USER5> I am seeing the same thing. I assist young Chinese academics abroad with editing English resumes, enhancing LinkedIn Profiles, and interview coaching before they enter the job market. Sometimes these are the same I assisted to get into 1 and 2 year master's programs. Increasingly they wish to return home. We also can't deny the negative impact of tightening visa situation in the US.</comment></comment>


Bad Devop: Why Pagerduty posting to Slack was a terrible idea - <AUTHOR> https://ropig.com/blog/bad-devop-pagerduty-posting-slack-terrible-idea/ <comment><USER2> I use the Slack webhooks as a feed of issues impacting my team, and less about notifying myself of issues. Kind of like an RSS feed.

If it's critical, PagerDuty pings my phone. It starts with the push notification, and escalates to a phone call shortly thereafter.

If it's a low urgency alert, PagerDuty sends me an email. I'll get to it eventually.

All of these trigger Slack webhooks, but those aren't for me to manage the incident or to be alerted. They are there only for visibility purposes.</comment>


Responsify.it - A responsive template generator - <AUTHOR> http://responsify.it/ <comment><USER2> I guess foundation zurb is better or just the pain sass</comment>


You don't want a child prodigy - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/24/opinion/sunday/kids-sports-music-choices.html <comment><USER2> I have a son who developed intrinsic interest in a Rubik's Cube I purchased as a gift for him at the age of 9.

He voluntarily attacked it with an incredible investment in time and focus.

I wouldnit call him an intellectual prodigy, but he consistently expressed outlier intrinsic motivation.

We supported him in his cubing competition pursuits.

He competed to a high standard making it to recognised national level competition twice, reaching the semi-finals the 1st year and clearing semi- finals the 2nd(but immediately knocked out in finals).

We openly discussed the commitment required to achieve national success, repeatedly covering the concept of diminishing returns.

We discussed that whatever he decided his family would support him.

He committed, he succeeded(to an extent), he recognised the need to redouble his commitment to achieve the final step up to the apex, and he decided he wanted to continue cubing for joy, rather than singular pursuit of competitive excellence.

We try to parent with a roughly 50/50 mix of "tiger parenting" and "hippies in joyful pursuit".

Be disciplined in what we NEED to learn/do.

Be joyful in what we WANT to learn/do.

We think he's a happy and well rounded kid

We think we did the right thing by him.

Too soon to tell?

<comment><USER3> He'll be drinking at 40 in a lonely bar reminiscing about how he was almost there. He had it within his grasp... He could have been national champ!

<comment><USER4> Looks like you got a lot of downvotes for what was clearly a joke. I thought it was funny!

<comment><USER5> Jokes at the expense of a child aren't funny.

<comment><USER6> Are you kidding? As a father me and my wife joke a lot about our son. Hide and seek hiding behind a chain link fence? Hey I'll save on college!

<comment><USER5> Claiming some stranger's kid is going to become an alcoholic that achieved nothing in life because they like to play with Rubik's cubes is on whole other level of mean.

<comment><USER7> Yeah, a funnier one.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I was a child prodigy, now living a life that is a fairly natural extension of that experience. I started programming at 6, took college classes (mostly math and physics) from 9 to 13. I had a semi-successful software business with my dad from 14 to 22, then decided to go to grad school, which was a fantastic decision, as it both helped me sharpen my intellectual skills and develop better social skills.

These days I do independent CS research and open source development, and still enjoy learning. One of my latest projects involves programming GPU compute, and I find it very exciting to grapple with a new computing model.

I don't talk about my early experience that much, but in this thread, feel free to AMA.

<comment><USER9> That's a very common story in software. We all started early. You're certainly not a prodigy.

A prodigy, in terms of computer science, would have contributed in a fundamental level to the field, as in invented some technology, some way of working, contributed some insight that changed the way we work, even the way we think, and this at very early age.

You, however, worked with your dad. Then you went to grad school. There's nothing prodigal about that.

<comment><USER8> Thanks for providing more detail for my answer to mindgam3's question :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I completely and utterly disagree. In a world where everything is a zero-sum game, the top few percent in any given area will gain more and more share. Being average or even is good is no longer enough.

I would also venture to say that the people who are good and something _and_ are generalists (e.g. the scientists in the article) are better in both halves than someone who is just one of those.

<comment><USER11> If your life is entirely oriented around hoarding as much money & power as possible, then sure, what you said it's true. But the world is filled with billions of regular people finding meaning in an average, good-enough life. The world runs on the backs of ordinary, unexceptional people like you & me.

<comment><USER5> > If your life is entirely oriented around hoarding as much money & power

Why do people have to always denigrate wanting money and power? It's an intrinsic desire to want power and resources. If somebody finds happiness that way why disparage them?

<comment><USER12> Because it's the same way unfullfilling as a drug addiction. Sure you have miles instead of needles and dots on the suit instead on the veins, but in the end you miss the one thing that matters-passing a legacy, influencing other life's in a good direction, for a socially acceptable Trainspotting reenactment.

<comment><USER13> I am not sure I fully agree with you, but you put it beautifully. You have a real way with words.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I want my kids to be ordinary, middle of the road, happy kids.

Not famous, not super incredible, not mega successful. Just normal urban kids.

If they're happy and find their own purpose in life that's all I could hope for.

<comment><USER15> As an ordinary, middle of the road, adult, I wish my parents pushed me harder. Sure, I can do it myself now, but after 20+ years of building habits, it's very hard to change track, and so far I've been unsuccessful.

Basically I have the desire to do "more", but lack the mental and emotional skillsets to be able to execute.

<comment><USER16> How old are you? In the same way that most teenagers enjoy playing video games more than doing work, most people in their 30s enjoy doing work more than playing video games. If you're only in your 20s or early 30s then at some point your brain may just flip on its own.

<comment><USER17> Is that because they stopped playing video games or because they were part of a generation where it just wasn't as common? My brain never did that flip (though I don't mind work so much). I kind of expect to see video games start appearing in nursing homes around the time I have to go to one.

<comment><USER18> As an anecdata, I played games heavily as a kid, until my early 20s. I didn't stop completely, and I wouldn't say I enjoy working more, but I prefer many other things before I reach for a controller/mouse+kb. I don't know if the brain flip is accurate as it makes it sound sudden, but for me I just developed more interests all of which fight for ever-shrinking time.

<comment><USER19> I'm the same way; from ages ~5-21 or so, I played video games almost-daily, but now I tend to keep myself entertained by programming something...not necessarily for my employer, but also not necessarily _not_ for my employer.

I can't quite tell if it's because I like programming more, or if it's because as I get older, I have trouble justifying stuff that I know won't help with monetary or intellectual fulfillment.

<comment><USER16> I think this is accurate. As you get older it's more obvious that video games are kind of an artificial happiness, similar to doing mushrooms or something. It's not that they're not fun per se, but it's hard to actually feel good about spending lots of time doing something that's not going to contribute to your long term wellbeing.

<comment><USER20> Almost everything we do is technically artificial happiness, it just matters how personally satisfied you are with what you do for entertainment.

I don't think it really has anything to do with recognizing something as being artificial happiness. It just has to do with change. There are speedrunners who code for a living, come home and compete for the fastest times on any number of games, spend their time attending things like AGDQ or contributing to the various micro communities within the scene.

I think people tend to fall into either passive or proactive mindsets for their hobbies. And it's a sort of spectrum over time influenced by the communities you belong to. If you're part of a community for your hobby, then you get more out of it due to community momentum. Sort of like the person who plays games to relax after work, versus the person participating in a speedrunning community for a specific game.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> > Athletes who go on to become elite usually have a "sampling period." They > try a variety of sports, gain a breadth of general skills, learn about their > own abilities and proclivities, and delay specializing until later than > their peers who plateau at lower levels.

There's so much for kids to experience as they grow up, it's a shame when a child is made to specialize in a single endeavor before they've had a chance to try other activities.

<comment><USER22> Sure. But then we won't have mozart or lebron james or turing or messi or most of the olympic athletes, etc.

It's a question of breadth vs depth. Specialization vs generalization.

I suppose most kids should be given a generalized "education". But if a kid is precocious or talented, then specialization makes sense.

Whatever happens, everyone lives with the "what if" or questions about the road not taken.

<comment><USER23> Lebron played football as well. Most olympic athletes likely played other sports before picking up the sport they're competing in. No one grows up specializing in javelin, discus, shotput, rowing, decathlon etc, etc. There's also all the multi-sport athletes that were phenomenal - Jordan, Gretzky, Bo Jackson, Deion Sanders, Jackie Robinson all come to mind.

<comment><USER24> Lebron played football because he's 6'8" 250lbs and a supreme athlete. Being a top notch athlete causes one to play more sports, not the other way around.

<comment><USER23> Connor McDavid is a top notch athlete who didn't play other sports. Has said he'd be horrible at them.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> _hence the Game Boy's thoroughly dated tech specs._

What they left out: It made it extremely stable and reliable and had features that mattered to the players that bleeding edge tech couldn't compete with.

<comment><USER26> Seems like you posted this under the wrong article.

<comment><USER25> No, I didn't. It's a quote from _this_ article.

I have two very smart sons who are very into games. They talk a lot about the gaming industry. I learned from them that the Game Boy was brilliant because it was "older" tech where the bugs had been worked out, the abilities were well known and so forth.

Proven tech was chosen to meet certain specs. There was a depth of wisdom there that more "ooh, shiny" tech lacked.

I'm sure my remark could have been framed better, but I intentionally chose to leave out personal anecdotes that I started to write -- about me turning down a National Merit Scholarship and my son getting accepted to college at age 13 and then not attending -- because I am given so very much ridiculous shit when I talk about such things, even though I appear to be the only woman to have ever spent time on the leader board of HN, so you would think folks here wouldn't blink at me self identifying as having attended gifted programs, having a proven track record of academic excellence and yadda.

I chose to leave that remark because HN is a tech oriented crowd and I thought it would resonate with some folks here and/or be a bit of cool trivia some people would appreciate learning that has potential relevance to their interests.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Former chess prodigy here. I earned NM title at age 10, had my 15m of fame and briefly flirted with the idea of training to be one of the greats, then realized by around age 12 or so that the future wasn't so great for chess pros. Went to college, did a bunch of startups, still love chess but never regretted my decision.

I wholeheartedly agree with this article's emphasis on developing generalist skills. I do think it's also really valuable to have the experience of mastering one subject. Gaining mastery forces you to learn discipline and push through psychological blocks, both of which translate to any other domain you wish to pursue.

But mastery != prodigy. There are very real downsides to the pressure to develop extreme talent at a young age. It can cause a kid to value achievement over everything else, create false sense of self that ignores real feelings, etc. Eventually this leads directly to the "troubled genius" archetype. We have enough of those already.

Tl;dr: no on prodigy, yes on focus/mastery if the passion is there.

<comment><USER27> Has much of your experiences as a child transferred to your life as an adult? 10 is super young to be a prodigy, how much such awareness and actualization did you have then of your skill/talent? Did you willingly or knowingly apply your chess skills to life from that point forward?

Hope these questions make sense?

<comment><AUTHOR> It's been a double-edged sword.

Main benefits:

1\. confidence knowing that I was really good at _something_ , even if it is one of the most otherwise useless skills in the world. Whenever I'm down because I feel like I suck at something, I have a data point to remind me that at one point I had some competence.

2\. Unexpected, but was really valuable when I raised money for my first startup: VCs like people who can beat them at chess. I think it's because pitch meetings for them are basically like an endless series of dick size contests. I played the chess prodigy card _hard_ , and it worked. YMMV

Downsides:

1\. Typical geek social isolation, multiplied by 10x because chess is way more useless than coding, robots, etc.

2\. All the usual narcissism/invincibility/insecurity that comes from having people tell you that you're special when you're young. Same mindfuck happens when you have all these twenty something tech millionaires. Super unhealthy mindset and required a lot of failure + soul searching + therapy to emerge reasonably intact.

<comment><USER27> That is interesting. Did any of the 'chess specific' skills transfer? I know very little about how to play chess well so forgive the naivety of this question , but it seems very math-y, formulaic or a lot of pattern recognition (poor choice of words). Im curious because 10 is just so young, I wonder how much of being a 10 year old sticks with anyone, but have a applicable skill where it's apparent it's a special skill/talent might stick more long term.

<comment><AUTHOR> Chess is mainly about visual pattern recognition + concentration. Noticing details.

For example, a detail in this conversation. You keep bringing up how 10 is "just so young". It's almost like you're more interested in the youth aspect than the other stuff. From my perspective the detail about age is the least interesting part of the experience. But maybe you are trying to get at or share something of your own that I am not understanding.

<comment><USER28> Different from the parent but also, how is the required skills for a chess master at 10 different for a chess master at say, 30? I feel like for the more experienced, it shifts more towards memory-based pattern recognition than logic-based pattern recognition as you are recreating historical game states/strategies. I also know nothing of chess at any real level, so I could be dead wrong.

<comment><AUTHOR> No offense, but you don't need any chess understanding to realize from my previous comment that I have zero interest in further discussion about the whole "being 10" thing.

<comment><USER28> Fair enough.

<comment><AUTHOR> Sorry to cut you off if you were being sincere. I specifically pushed back on the being 10 thing from the other comment after it rubbed me the wrong way, and then you pursued basically the same line of questioning without acknowledging anything I wrote. I interpreted that as being trolled and reacted accordingly. If I misjudged your intent I apologize.

<comment><USER28> Don't worry about it! The internet is like the wild west, trust nobody. To be fair, it is a thread on being a child prodigy, so I see why that individual was so adamant about being 10 :3

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah, I still think the focus on 10 thing is odd as I explain in the sibling comment. What would be nice to hear from you is some acknowledgement that you understand you pushed a button after I attempted to communicate that this particular button made me uncomfortable. Not ascribing ill intent or asking for an apology, but I'm always looking for allies in my attempt to increase emotional intelligence amongst all these geniuses on HN.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> In Vietnam, they say you're blessed if your child is more capable than you. Everyone says it but it takes a long time to sink in. My dad told me that. I used to think it's kinda silly. Why have low expectation? Now I understand how hard it is.

</comment><comment><USER30> [deleted]

<comment><USER31> > He worries about death but has said more than a few times he wanted to die > or kill himself.

As a 2 sigma gifted kid (I guess), I had some of this same tendency, starting around the same age as your son and becoming all but unbearable my freshman year of college. It took me another 15 years or so to develop the emotional intelligence to cope more effectively with the trauma of existence.

The one thing I wish I had discovered earlier, was Buddhism. Not as a religion, but as a mental practice, and an existential framework. Some of the most profound insights I've gotten about existence have come from Buddhist writing and teachers, and with all due respect for other religions, these insights seem uniquely Buddhist. Other religions do touch on the same topics, but either more obliquely or at a more esoteric/advanced level, whereas they are foundational to Buddhism and often stated in a very plain and concise manner.

For instance, that inner pain your son feels, that makes him want to die? That's the unavoidable discomfort of existence, which is literally the "First Noble Truth" of Buddhism. And if we look deeply enough, we can see that we simultaneously crave both existence and non-existence: we want to live forever but often can't bear the immediate experience we find ourselves in. We torture ourselves with contrary ideals that can't possibly coexist, and it's not like we even have any choice in the matter anyway! Gifted children are not unique in this regard; only their precociousness and sensitivity to it.

I could go on, but my specific and personal lessons aren't all that relevant. Aside from the existential framework, the main thing I hope you do for your son, is to give him the gift of "___". Normally Buddhist advocates would say "meditation" in that slot, but I prefer to put it like that, because while I would personally recommend the practice of meditation, that's not the only method of getting this value. Alternative words are prayer, silence, breath, sitting, peace, stillness, non-judgmental self-reflection--these are all part and parcel of the same core skill. Which is the cultivated ability to receive the experiences of life, as wonderful or as terrible as they are, with equanimity, knowing that _the experience is the point_ and _this too shall pass_. All other aspects of emotional intelligence stem from the metaskill of being able to "sit" with the profound and inescapable discomfort of one's existence.

Best of luck to you and your son. I don't envy either you or him, but ultimately it just is what it is and we all end up in the same place anyway. Hopefully this helps make the journey a bit easier.

<comment><USER30> Thank you for this. We hope to help with focus on mindfulness and meditation and what you describe sounds like what he needs. He needs to find peace internally but he's too young right now.</comment></comment></comment>


Mozilla Open Web App prototype - <AUTHOR> http://blog.mozilla.com/blog/2010/10/19/prototype-of-an-open-web-app-ecosystem/

<comment><USER2> From the feature list: "Can request access to one or more advanced and/or privacy-sensitive capabilities" and "Can receive notifications from the cloud."

GMail, etc. has already proven that the browser provides a rich enough UI experience to replace desktop apps, but the general lack of integration with the services of an operating system still forces me to either (1) use desktop apps for some things or (2) go through convoluted processes.

An example: I used to work on a large photo sharing site, and making it easy for non-technical users to upload photos was important but difficult. A desktop app has the advantage of being able to recognize connected hardware, interrogate obscure file structures (DSIM blah, etc.), and show the user a pretty grid of photos from the camera -- all triggered on the hardware connection event. Recently, I told my dad to use Picasa as an uploading front- end. His eyes glaze over when I have to tell him how to navigate a directory structure, so a site which requires HTTP Upload is DOA for him. HTML5 will provide multi-file select, but the degree of available automation is terrible when compared to the desktop.

Here's what I'd like to see: A set of standard, OS-agnostic profiles for services provided by an operating system and common peripherals which would allow web-based apps to do things like slurp photos from a camera, print a pixel-perfect document, or capture a scanned image. Operating system vendors (or 3rd parties) could wrap OS-specific driver profiles with these Javascript/Browser-accessible APIs, and users could grant certain domains the rights to use them. Imagine a TWAIN driver wrapper for Windows which would allow a webapp to initiate a scanning request and capture the image without the user saving the file to disk and then uploading it.

The proposed notifications service is kind of like this except that it is designed to receive notifications from a bunch of sites even if no webapp is currently running.

I think the search service design should be inverted. There should be a standard search service interface which sites could implement, but the local operating system should implement this same interface and should be queried in parallel. A user could search for photos on his photo sharing site, a Dropbox- esque site, AND his local filesystem. But, the search service itself could be SaaS. Why make the desktop heavier?

What about a dialer/voice profile for mobile devices (and desktop as well)? What about a "screen management" profile which would allow a web-based Powerpoint competitor to automatically show the presentation on the projector but the slide notes on the laptop monitor? What other profiles would be interesting which could reduce the need for applications to target specific operating systems? What about a "headless" profile and a "system tray" profile so that Pandora could be implemented using a combination of HTML5 audio, an icon on the system tray, and the notification service for song titles?

<comment><USER2> As I re-read my submission, I thought about ActiveX controls circa 1999. They certainly could have been used to solve such problems (at least on Windows), but the ability for any old site to install native code made them a security disaster.

What's different here? The entity you trust to provide you with a secure browser is the same entity providing a set of profiles, and you would opt into which sites could access these profiles. And, there's no "run arbitrary code" profile.

<comment><USER3> There's still a problem. Most users would just click "Yes" whenever a web site asked for access. Chrome addons routinely request access to "all files on your computer" and very few users complain about it. Fast-forward, and it's ActiveX all over again.

Do people know better these days? I'm not sure.

<comment><USER2> I wonder if the security concerns could be limited by opt-outable warnings on first use. Let's say you gave a malicious site access to the camera profile. Would it be sufficient for an implementer of the profile to show a dialog saying, "Click here to upload all your photos to XYZ.com"? [Or, even better, show thumbnails of the photos which would be uploaded] Is it more real for users to allow specific access at a specific time than just a blanket "ok" at install time?

Is there a way to have one's cake and eat it too?

<comment><USER4> It's very hard to get these right and not having an annoying nag-ware application.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> As Mozailla defines it, an open web app works in all modern browsers across the desktop and mobile. That idea thrills me as a user but gives me a sick feeling as a developer. Unless your app is fairly simple, that's a lot of platforms to target. What happens as the apps get more complex? I wonder how many companies will start with one or two platforms and then add support for more, once their code is tested and refined to enable "each browser to compete on app presentation, organization and management user interfaces."

I can't help but dream about an alternate universe where browser vendors standardized on one common, open source rendering engine and one javascript engine.

</comment><comment><USER6> I'm a big fan of the "defer commitment" principle. It seems speculative and dangerous to try to create new standards in a field that is evolving so rapidly. We've had a lot of form factor innovation like smartphones and tablets. Other relevant areas like online payments are ripe for innovation as well. How will these new standards respond to the need for matching innovation? Who will maintain them? Will there be versioning? What about backwards compatibility?

<comment><USER7> It's not really a standard at this point, it's just an experiment run by Mozilla to get traction and catch up with Chrome. In other words they're doing exactly what you said they should, embracing evolution and innovation in web applications on both desktop and mobile fronts.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> So is this basically Mozilla's answer to Chrome's installable web apps?

<comment><USER9> Yes, but they're pushing this as an open browser standard for all web app stores. It'll be interesting to see Google's response to this, as well as how DRM potentially works in both implementations.

<comment><USER3> DRM isn't exactly compatible with open-source...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I don't really know how is this better than launching a site and using a Paypal gateway integrated into the site.

I don't really know how will this solve XSS and other security problems the web has.

What problems are these app stores supposed to fix?

<comment><USER10> > What problems are these app stores supposed to fix?

You've completely missed the point. The feature isn't an app store. It's browser based applications you can download and install on your computer, and run locally. The browser is merely the engine the runs the application. They'll probably remove the chrome, and instead of acting like a browser and a web page, it will merely be the application.

<comment><USER11> It's probably because the point makes no sense. There's no reason to go back to desktop apps, we were moving away from that and making lots of progress and now all of a sudden many are eager to return back to local desktop, but this time running inside a browser, doesn't make any sense at all.

We should be moving forward, rather than going backwards.

<comment><USER10> > It's probably because the point makes no sense. There's no reason to go back > to desktop apps

Yes, there is. Being able to install a web app locally means several things immediately:

1\. Local and remote storage of data beyond what traditional web apps can accomplish. 2\. Snappier applications, since everything is stored locally. 3\. You'll still be capable of being connected remotely. 4\. Ability to use the app even if you aren't connected, or cannot connect remotely.

Also, you assert that we were moving away from desktop apps, when the opposite is true. Native apps are still insanely popular thanks to mobile devices. Even on an iOS device, you can run web apps as if they are local applications. It's incredibly useful here as well. Being able to install an application on your phone outside the App Store.

<comment><USER12> To be fair, very little of what's proposed in this project changes any of those points. You can already store data locally using localStorage APIs. You can already cache application content/scripts/resources locally using HTML Manifest files, which also let you use the application when you aren't connected to the net. And of course, you can always access remote resources when you are (even across domains using the new Cross Domain XHR technology).

The crux of what they are proposing is a standard way to actually say "I want this web site to be considered an 'app' that can be installed using whatever your platform wants to consider installing". In other words, a slightly more enhanced, standard version of adding an app to your homescreen on the iPhone.

<comment><USER10> Local storage is currently limited. On the desktop there will be means for unlimited storage. Manifest files can present more than merely what file to download (such as operating in the background). By setting the apps to a different domain, it gives them room to allow for a different permission set.

<comment><USER4> If it would become unlimited than nothing would stop my web app from filling your hard drive up with crap. So removing this limit maybe not such a good idea. Besides if Mozilla wanted to provide unlimited storage they could just remove the limit from the HTML5 storage, but they won't for the reason I already wrote.

<comment><USER10> It's the same as any other application you install. What stops any application from filling up your hard drive with crap?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I love Mozilla for their efforts. I hate to be pessimistic, but I'm just not sure this is what the world needs.

<comment><USER14> Dunno. Everybody seems to have a different opinion on what the world needs

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Mozilla's proposed Open Web App ecosystem is competing with Google's Chrome Web Store. Both seem to provide basically the same functionality: a dashboard of web applications for your web browser, and a store to discover new web applications.

I think perhaps it would be better Google Chrome and Mozilla had a compatible app dashboard for the browser, a standard interface to add applications to these browser dashboards, and competing, but compatible, web stores for web applications.

</comment><comment><USER7> Looks like the discussion here is focused on the desktop, but I'm more interested in what does this mean for the mobile world. Since the original iPhone announcements we were told that web applications are going to be treated as first class citizens, but it didn't really happen on any of the leading mobile platforms.

I really hope that the work Mozilla is doing will help move the state of web applications on mobile forward in a way that is portable across all platforms.

</comment><comment><USER16> The idea of "one or more" stores distributing these apps seems likely to hurt profit margins for developers. I was intrigued until they mentioned that aspect.

<comment><USER17> Competition improves products. If anything, I'd think that it'd be better for developers.

<comment><USER16> If I'm understanding this correctly the competition wouldn't be dev vs dev but store vs store. If that is the case then your app becomes a commodity and each store will try to compete on price, lowering the dev's profit margin in the process.

<comment><USER12> That's like saying that having more than one grocery store hurts farmers. The farmers choose what price they sell their produce at, and the stores have to choose their own price based on how much profit they need to make on each sale.

In other words, nobody will be forcing these developers to be on a particular store -- unlike Apple's App Store, where you have to play on their terms.

<comment><USER17> Precisely. Stores aren't just competing to get users, they're competing to get developers. If one store offers a higher profit margin for developers then that store will have the best apps.

If someone could launch a competitor to the Apple App store, and say "I'm going to take half the margin that apple takes from app developers", I think developers would flock to that store, and then so would customers.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> "Support paid apps by means of an authorization model that uses existing identity systems like OpenID."

I like the idea of this. I wish it was easier to sell the web apps I build, in a way that's as easy as plugging in OpenID. I've looked at a few services that promise this but they either need US a merchant account or something else I don't have/can't get.

</comment><comment><USER19> Sweet, they included <http://scrabb.ly> as one of the icons in the demo :-)

</comment><comment><USER20> Interesting. I just need some type of car analogy for this to make complete sense.

</comment><comment><USER21> I don't know why I wouldn't just choose app engine, gwt, and chrome's web store.

<comment><USER22> Because not everyone uses Chrome? Because Mozilla is proposing their standard as an open standard for any browser?

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> This is big news for web developers.</comment>


Ask HN: What does the next 10-20 years look like in tech/engineering? - <AUTHOR>

Specific questions I'm thinking of:<p>- Is it all facebook and google from here on in? - Are we going to solve the energy crisis?, How about the climate crisis? - Flying cars? seriously? - How will quantum computers change things? . . . - And anything else you want to discuss ...<p>I'm not necessarily looking for hard facts.  Vague opinions can also be interesting. <comment><USER2> I've been reading my way through Project Gutenberg's Science Fiction bookshelf. [http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Science_Fiction_%28Bookshelf%2...](http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Science_Fiction_%28Bookshelf%29)

Much, maybe most, of this is short stories from the 1950s and 1960s. What stands out for me is the big stuff has not happened and how much all the mundane stuff has changed.

Some things that are common (and don't violate known laws of physics) that not happened:

* Space travel.

* Atomic powered rockets. And airplanes. And cars. And toasters (see next).

* Ubiquitous, essentially free power, typically atomic. Mass to energy converters are popular in the stories. Fission/fusion reactors are extremely small and safe in the stories.

What is really interesting is how many things that are written into the scenarios as assumptions, just normal life, have changed.

* Phones had wires and operators (and rotary dials). They typically had a video feed as well - video is available today but not prevalent for everyday use (no thanks, I don't need to see my boss).

* Smoking. Smoking. Smoking. Smoking in closed spaceship systems. More smoking.

* All computers are huge.

* Typewriters, telegraphs, etc.

* Phone booths.

Misses:

* The concept of a cell phone is totally absent.

* Data transfer between computers (e.g. internet) is nearly totally absent.

* The computer power and size of todays computers is so much greater than the power of the (huge) computers envisioned is so far different as to be effectively a miss.

My conclusion: speculating is fun, but the things that you think will be real in 20-50 years will still be will-o-wisps. On the other hand, all the things you take for granted will be so different that it will make your grandkids laugh at you.

</comment><comment><USER3> Ahhh, idle speculation...

Re: flying cars -- I think that even if all technical problems were resolved, an economic/legal problem would remain. In a car, if you crash, the externality is usually limited to the cars around you -- other drivers who have implicitly agreed to share in the risk of driving via insurance and whatnot.

In a flying car world, the externality of crashing (not sure if that's the right economic phraseology) is now shared by everyone below you -- people who want nothing to do with that risk. This isn't a huge problem with airplanes because we have a vast regulatory apparatus to mitigate the risk. Would be feasible with individuals routinely flying their cars over populated areas? Seems doubtful.

TL;DR - I wouldn't trust my neighbor to fly over my house, much less my kid's school.

Now, if all flying cars were AI controlled, that might be another story...

</comment><comment><USER4> I give Facebook five years before it shares the fate of MySpace. I give Google ten years before it becomes a Yahoo -- still around but not a leading light, by any means.

I think we will absolutely be rolling out clean energy in ten years, with 70% of new cars as fully electric cars at that time.

The climate will continue to be changing dramatically. That's a large car without brakes; nothing is going to stop it. We'll have cut CO2 emissions significantly but the main damage will have already been done. I think it will be the main focus of concern for people.

I think we'll see the Semantic Web come into full bloom and most will view the web in terms of it, rather than the text we know today.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was at some point a large war involving multiple countries, stopping just short of a world war. Martial law in the United States, for example.

Huge changes in the next ten years, simply huge. But despite the negatives, it's a great time to be alive.

<comment><AUTHOR> "I give Facebook five years before it shares the fate of MySpace. I give Google ten years before it becomes a Yahoo -- still around but not a leading light, by any means."

Personally, I find that very hard to envision.

<comment><USER5> I think it's more likely Google becomes a Yahoo (or even more likely, a Microsoft) than Facebook becomes Myspace.

Facebook has avoided many of the things that made the fall of Myspace possible, and their network is much larger, including people who came to social networks late and are very unlikely to ever care about changing to another one.

Google, on the other hand, already shows the early signs of Microsoftism. Taking themselves too seriously, trying everything and excelling at nothing, massive employee growth (which has to lower average quality). 5 years from now, they'll be well into a downward slide.

<comment><USER4> FB's _network is much larger, including people who came to social networks late and are very unlikely to ever care about changing to another one_

Exactly. And that's why I'm right. Facebook isn't a generic solution, like email. People don't use it for business, for example. It also has a strong branding and part of that is in terms of "coolness". Now it is something that your mom uses. How long do you think the early adopters -- students and teenagers -- are going to put up with that before it gets organically rebranded as uncool? And, as we know from the Diffusion of Innovation, if the head of the snake dies (the early adopters go away or go somewhere else en masse), it's only a matter of time before it, well, becomes MySpace.

 _Google ... trying everything and excelling at nothing_

That's it. Hot startups are like child stars. If all the idolization seeps into their ego, you can guarantee they'll be shooting porn by 20. Why? Because they think they're entitled to what they have, but what they have _will change_. And their sense of entitlement means they won't take the change seriously and even as they watch it go away, they'll just assume it will come back. Google has a serious case of the egos. It doesn't matter how many people love them now -- they don't stand a chance.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> For posterity sake, I'd better answer my own questions:

\- yes, unfortunately we're no longer building for the web, we're building for the facebook and google platforms, and it pisses me off no end, because more innovation is required. I only hope Google open up their API completely so that developers like me can build some cool shit on their platform

\- energy crisis, I have no clue. But I really hope so. Climate crisis, same.

\- Flying cars, seriously! [http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/109522/20110207/flying- cars-...](http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/109522/20110207/flying-cars- terrafugia.htm) ... will probably never 'take off' though.

\- Quantum Computers. I can only wildly imagine some crazy mind-reading computer who has nothing but benevolence and love for me so that I may be hooked up to it's matrix and suck on it's glorious god-like nipple. Google be thy name. Don't bloody wake me up!

</comment><comment><USER6> I expect that, in 20 years, self-driving cars will be just about to "cross the chasm", so to speak. I see them roughly analogous to what the Leaf and other electric cars are today. I don't think these cars will fly, but I do think that they will be on the cusp of mass-market consumption.

</comment><comment><USER7> Before there is a rise in flying cars I think we're going to see the gradual evolution of driving aids (adaptive cruise control and automated emergency braking) into structured automated driving (there is a set lane on the highway that while you're in it your car drives for you) to eventual full on automated driving (you get in the car and say "grocery store" and it drives while you watch the latest episode of 'Ow! My Balls!').

</comment><comment><USER8> Less energy use, smaller form factors, and mobility - i.e. just a continuation of the transistor revolution.</comment>


Ask HN: How would you grow a new SaaS product without Ads? - <AUTHOR>

I've found that many fast-growing saas companies do NOT use ads for their growth. Digitalocean is one of them, do you think that it's all thanks to word-of-mounth? <comment><USER2> DigitalOcean makes pretty extensive use of ads for retargetting & etc. Try going to their site then browsing Youtube or Twitter, for example. I've seen enough of the "You've been coding like a beast..." video to last me several lifetimes.

Content marketing into emailed drip campaigns and/or retargetting is a pretty powerful formula in many SaaS businesses. Scalable content creation can be a pretty powerful force multiplier at lots of businesses, including SaaS businesses.

A service which is remarkable enough to mention to friends, or which intrinsically gets mentioned to other people in the course of typical use (e.g. Basecamp), is a nice asset to have, too, but many SaaS companies grow without those advantages.

<comment><AUTHOR> I agree with you about content marketing and remarkable service.

Anyway, I guess, retargeting is something powerful if you are able to bring a user on your site at least one time.

Are you suggesting that their growth is caused by "only" content marketing + retargeting + remarkable product?

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> It all comes down to what your application does, your target market and where your customers hangout. Here is a technique that can fit almost any product, you can even use this for validation before building your product.

1) Identify several use cases and features for your application (preferably more than 10). Examples for a project management SaaS app:

\- Project Management

\- Time Tracking

\- Increase Productivity

\- Team Collaboration Tools

2) Build a keywords list, you want to get 3 to 5 keywords for every use case.

3) Create landing pages targeting every use case and feature. Use the keywords you previously identified in the page title. You should have good and useful content on these pages and it should focus on converting visitors into customers.

4) Build inbound links for your homepage and every landing page. Analyze backlinks of your competitors and related products using [http://www.ranksignals.com](http://www.ranksignals.com) (disclosure: I built RankSignals). This should get you an idea of how to get links and how many links you need.

5) Reach out to as many blogs as possible and pitch your product. Don't just focus on most popular tech blogs, every single link helps; even a local mom blog.

With in few days or weeks (depending upon your competition and execution), you could start ranking on search engines for most of the keywords you are targeting, and it will start driving a growing stream of organic SEO traffic to your product. Industry influencers and bloggers will also start noticing your product and write about it. This will drive even more traffic and links.

This will build an organic marketing flywheel which will bring new customers and continue to grow every single month. You can scale this by creating more landing pages and useful content like guides and tutorials. DigitalOcean does this very well, their community content portal ([https://www.digitalocean.com/community/](https://www.digitalocean.com/community/)) drives majority of their organic traffic.

<comment><USER4> Nice analysis/strategy description. I just want to add that one of the primary reasons why saas companies increase in size, is because they provide convenience. It seems that the SEO strategy increases convenience by having a relevant guide/tutorial for each use case. Which makes it easier for the short-in-time managers making the decisions whether or not to use this or that saas company's services.</comment></comment>


Show HN: Sundance – A HN Wrapper Graying Out Stories You Already Saw - <AUTHOR> https://hn.domysee.com/ <comment><AUTHOR> Creator here.

I Refresh HN a few times a day, but the frontpage doesn't completely change in a few hours. Which means I see many stories multiple times. But not all of them are interesting to me, and if one is, I put it in my reading list immediately. That's why graying out the ones I already saw is helpful, so I don't have to look at them a second time. Usually there are only ~5 new stories for me, and it's amazing to see immediately which ones those are.

It works by putting the ids of the stories into local storage and comparing them on load. For the first load all of them will appear normally, if you refresh immediately they are all grayed out.

<comment><USER2> You can expand this by graying out only those items which were on the screen. You could use Intersection Observer for this: [https://developer.mozilla.org/en- US/docs/Web/API/Intersectio...](https://developer.mozilla.org/en- US/docs/Web/API/Intersection_Observer_API)</comment></comment>


Release Late, Release Rarely (2006) - <AUTHOR> http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/rlrr

<comment><USER2> I've noticed that there's a simple formula many bloggers use to come up with titles for posts.

1) Take famous other blog post title, book title, or meme

2) Negate

3) Apply DeMorgan's law

<comment><USER3> The reason bloggers give their posts these kinds of titles is because they get more readers. I don't like doing this on my blog, but on the other hand it really sucks when you spend eight hours writing something and it only gets twenty readers and no comments. (When you could get 20,000 reads by saying the same thing but with a more provocative title.)

<comment><USER4> Which is only a true improvement if the other 19,980 readers necessarily contribute to ... whatever it is you're shooting for.

To quote the article: _You only get one chance to make a first impression; why have it be "junk"? Once that's associated with your name or project, it's tough to scrape off._

<comment><USER5> bad first impression > no first impression

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> My 2008 thoughts on this are here: <http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/howtolaunch>

<comment><USER7> Btw aaron, your talk at Startup Bootcamp was great. I didn't realize you were such a great speaker. All those years with Lessig really paid off.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> _> Releasing means showing it to the world._

It does if you're Apple, but it doesn't if you're me. You tell me how I can get the entire world to check out my little startup (<http://shoptalkapp.com> ;) ) and then I'll take your advice and polish the heck out of it before I release it.

This article applies very well to large companies who get lots of publicity. They need to be careful not to release junk, because everyone is watching them. For startups like mine, releasing means trying to show it to the world, but actually only showing it to a small group of people.

</comment><comment><USER9> It hink it really depends on product. Even within the world of software, as always - it depends.

Example: Blizzard Entertainment. They are well known for releasing "When it's Done." or fixing things "Soon". It would be hard to argue taht the strategy hasn't paid off for them. I'm not sure if a large MMO or RTS is really the kind of software that can best benefit from having a minimal feature set.

I think it's important to know your audience when writing something,and this article seems somewhat out of context without knowing who the intended audience was.

<comment><USER10> "When it's done" doesn't tell the whole story for Blizzard. They continue to patch and support Starcraft, and they are currently working on a sizable content patch for Diablo II. WoW has been constantly receiving additional content and balance updates. Blizzard goes a little bit beyond all that, a remarkable trait in such a 'now' focused games industry.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Sure, if you're Apple and you make expensive hardware, you don't want your initial release to suck. It's just too hard to make changes after the fact. Software, on the other hand, is cheap to produce. You can afford to release early and often, because releasing fixes and improving features is quite doable. If you release late and rarely, how are you going to improve your application? How are you going to know what users want? How are you going to know if your idea is headed in the right direction? Simple: you won't. You'll spend all your time, effort, and money building the wrong thing. At best you'll get a ton of users for a few weeks when you launch, and that'll be that.

</comment><comment><USER12> It's more nuanced than whether you release early or late. I've noticed a lot of startups that release early because "well, that's what you're supposed to do," but then the feedback comes in and they're ill-equipped to deal with it.

Release early when you can release often, but not earlier. Often this requires some meta-thinking about the space your app is in, the alternatives you may need to switch to, and how easily you can turn on a dime. Good design, in other words.

Another thing you can benefit from is good infrastructure and processes for listening to users. As an extreme but perhaps strawman example, in some consumer-web spaces there's little point in releasing an app without being able to A/B test. Build that capability in before you launch.

"Release early, release often" helps evoke the right mindset around launching: save your A game for the time after launch, not the weeks before. Don't build up the launch. Don't set a deadline, round up the press, create an embargo, and work unsustainably late hours to meet the deadline. That way you'll be tired when launch happens. You'll have a celebration, folks will ease up for a day or week, some will even take vacation, until eventually someone notices that _nothing happened_. Instead, focus on the process. Be blase early on: "This ol' thang, yeah we develop in public, and release all the time." You aren't done when you launch, you're just getting started. Ramp up the velocity after you start getting noticed, because now you have less room for manoeuvre.

Whatever you do, don't focus on the first half of "Release early, release often," and ignore the second.

<comment><USER13> And I would add, release early and often only if releasing is easy. I worked in an shop that was trying to be "agile" with an enterprisey consultingware kind of product. They tried to release every 6 weeks or so, but the releases were complicated to deploy and deployments were additionally complicated by their customers' own change management processes that made the releases flow like cold molasses.

They ended up with releases backed up two or three cycles at some customer sites, customers who could not cope and only wanted every other (or every third release), which created a support nightmare and customers who felt the software was in a never ending state of flux.

So, if your releases involve a "download this zip file and extract it here" kind of process, it's a lot more feasible to do the early/often thing. If your releases require dispatching an engineer on a site visit, maybe not such a good idea.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> This is true of a lot of trades.

Music and writing. Do not let people in on your work, unless they're privy and trusted.

It is hard for average people get excited about your intentions, if it isn't presented properly.

In fact, it is all about presentation. Look at the average response to the awesome explosions in Transformers. It would take more words to describe the functions of Notepad than to describe what is going on in the too long eye- candy scenes of that movie.

Hell, look at the bible. Why do we need long parables to describe simple ideas?

From This is the Dreamtime blog post by Robin Hanson ([http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/09/this-is-the-dream- time...](http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/09/this-is-the-dream-time.html)):

 _We were built to be influenced by the rhetoric, eloquence, difficulty, drama, and repetition of arguments, not just their logic. Perhaps this once helped us to ally us with high status folks. And we were built to show our ideals via the stories we like, and also to like well-crafted stories. But today we are exposed to arguments and stories by folks far more expert than found in ancestral tribes. Since we are built to be quite awed and persuaded by such displays, our beliefs and ideals are highly influenced by our writers and story-tellers. And these folks in turn tell us what we want to hear, or what their patrons want us to hear, neither of which need have much to do with reality._

</comment><comment><USER15> For a much better take on releasing late, try Dick Costolo's (FeedBurner founder) Launch Late to Launch Often: [http://www.burningdoor.com/askthewizard/2007/03/launch_late_...](http://www.burningdoor.com/askthewizard/2007/03/launch_late_to_launch_often.html)

</comment><comment><USER16> This article assumes that "the public" is a homogeneous group. In reality, if you want to release a polished, useful app to "the public" (i.e. a median target user), you probably need to release early and often to _early adopters_ first.

<comment><USER17> That's the point of his article. He says open source works because you 'release early, release often' to a group of insiders, not the public. Hence why we have multiple release channels: trunk nightlies, branch nightlies, closed betas, public betas, and official releases.

His point is not to 'release early, release often' to the unwashed masses, but to 'release late, release rarely' to the public so they get a polished, finished product.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> There is a false assumption in this article: that the whole world will see and remember your initial release. The reality is - unless you are a big company like Apple - your initial release will attract almost no attention. But you may get some helpful feedback.

"You don't get a second chance to make a first impression", goes the conventional wisdom. Actually you do. You get second and third and fourth and more chances because there are a lot of people on this planet of ours.

<comment><USER19> i think the point is you don't get a second chance with the people who have already written you off - add a couple of negative blog posts here and there and you may end up with a lot of negative publicity to overcome.

<comment><USER20> Change your name, then. If its so early in the game, nobody recognizes your company / product anyway.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> The whole article is flawed. The article, minus the title, implies that he is arguing you shouldn't Release Early, Often but rather Release Ready.

The title, however, implies you should miss deadlines regardless of your readiness and you should never update. Wtf?!

<comment><USER22> Perhaps I'm displaying a lack of sophistication, but by my reading, the title "implies you should miss deadlines...and you should never update" in the same way that "worse is better" implies that shipping a ten-line random number generator is an acceptable solution to all problems. I mean, that would be worse than that database app the bank wanted, right? So it must be better!

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> Eagerly waiting for the controversial "Don't release" response screed.

</comment><comment><USER24> So you mean all these versions of OS X I bought is just Apple doling out software it already had in the can?

</comment><comment><USER25> But seriously, wow. That is bad advice.

<comment><USER26> Can you explain why you think that? I disagree with you, for many (most?) products the "release early, release often" philosophy simply isn't appropriate.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> I think it really depends what type of industry you're entering. If you're breaking new ground and creating something truly original then you can get away with releasing early and often - your audience is going to be made up of early adopters who are more tolerant of issues.

However if you're building a product for a well established industry e.g. if you were building new shopping cart software you would be entering a saturated market full of knowledgable potential clients and full featured alternatives. In this case you need to release when your feature set matches or hopefully exceed that of your competitors.</comment>


Sony: Anonymous provided cover for PSN attack - <AUTHOR> http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/05/sony-wont-testify-on-psn-attack-names-anonymous-in-written-answers.ars

<comment><USER2> Anonymous' response: <http://i.imgur.com/2tJJ2.jpg></comment>


Ask HN: Why doesn't HN have comment collapse, like Reddit? - <AUTHOR> I feel like there has to be a good reason. Because scrolling through long threads to get to a different line of thought is not very friendly. <comment><USER2> This request comes up regularly, the last time two weeks ago [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11355038](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11355038)

Summary: most users agree, some wrote browser plugin, some are willing to pay for a solution. It's up to the admins to find time to implement the feature.

</comment><comment><USER3> It will devalue the comments you write. Why bother if it no one will see it.

</comment><comment><USER4> Some third party clients already support comment collapse :)

I'm keeping a list of all HN clients here: [https://pinboard.in/u:tedmiston/t:hacker- news/](https://pinboard.in/u:tedmiston/t:hacker-news/)

You can bookmark it, filter by web vs. mobile vs. native, etc.

For comment collapse, I'd look at Premii's client in particular.

</comment><comment> wes-k Oh man it pains me not having it! So many threads have a really long first comment chain about a tangent within the article or about a related project.</comment>


Collaborate Task, Support and Sales with Grexit - <AUTHOR> http://www.hackpundit.com/collaborate-task-support-sales-grexit/

<comment><AUTHOR> Collaborate with Gmail on Task, Support, and Sales - all from your Inbox by sharing Gmail labels with your teammates. It's a very useful add-ons that can go a very long way as a collaboration tool by letting people collaborate in an environment that is very simple, which they know how to use and are very comfortable with.</comment>