Tech Giants Take Their Talent Hunt to Cambridge, UK - <AUTHOR> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/03/technology/cambridge-artificial-intelligence.html <comment><USER2> > As the tech workers land the big salaries, home prices are skyrocketing, and > the locals are being squeezed out.

Joke is on them, I'm a new tech immigrant to Cambridge and I still can't buy a house here.

<comment> cup-of-tea House prices have been skyrocketing for ages already and it's helped by the fact that Cambridge is within commuting distance of London. There's no way your average senior dev could afford to buy a house in Cambridge at this point.

<comment><USER3> We have the exact same problem in the other Cambridge (Massachusetts).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER2> > According to the recruitment website Hired, the average tech salary in > London is $78,000 a year, versus $142,000 in Silicon Valley.

And this is one of the reasons for the brain drain that the mention before. Silicon Valley firms pay significantly more than the competition, and they are still paying almost half of what they do in the US.

It isn't only about money, but it would be naive to deny it's impact on people's decision on where to live and work.

<comment><AUTHOR> In complete terms it's more like 3x that $78k figure.

The salary would be bad enough. The big US tech companies are nearly all publicly traded. So that $142,000 is really $250,000 or more in total compensation. The UK, and Europe more broadly, not only can't compete with the salaries, they can't compete with the ability to dish vast stock compensation thanks to the immense market caps that Google et al. have. If you're really great at something, Google can trivially give you millions of dollars in stock if it makes sense. What company in Britain can compete with that?

The skeptics will say something about healthcare in the US as a counter. The top 1/4 in the US have easy, fast access to some of the most elite medical care on the planet. And if you're making $142k in salary in the US, your healthcare is entirely paid for.

There are only two strong counters, one is that the quality of life can be very high in parts of wealthy Western Europe, and the other is cultural (preferring one culture over another).

<comment><USER4> My personal counter is that I just couldn't morally accept contributing taxes to a nation which:

        - Exploits the poor and non-citizens
        - Overthrows governments and bullies smaller countries
        - Has only the most rudimentary social security system
        - Does not really have a concept of healthy work/life balance. With little time off and none at all for people with newborns.
        - Takes near-zero environmental responsibility
        - Literally spies on the entire population of the rest of the world
        ...

<comment><USER5> Even on a selfish level, the extra 2-3 weeks of PTO in UK is easily more important than the extra compensation in the US. What's the point of having more money if you are stuck in an office for more of the year and can only spend it on material goods? As you say, for women the difference in maternity leave is laughable.

<comment><USER6> Eventually at Google US you get 5 weeks PTO, which is the same as in Google London. Plus Google has four more holidays in the US than in the UK.

<comment><USER5> "Eventually" but to get to that point you have to endure years of getting half the time off that a burger flipper gets in McDonalds UK. Honestly it's a bit humiliating.

<comment><USER6> The more limited time does suck, but on the other hand the huge amount of money makes it way easier to retire earlier, so you can have more time off in the long run if you want.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I used to work in Cambridge, a tech job of sorts. It was swell, the quality of life is great, London really close as well.

There were only two downsides. One, pretty bad public transport and driving was often not an option. Two, very few flats, so you'd mostly share with others in houses.

Last but not least, there is a great divide between the students, the so- called professionals (meaning tech, medical research, aeronautics etc.) and town people. The frictions were commonplace.

<comment><USER8> What kind of frictions did you see?

<comment><USER9> It's town vs gown. You have separate areas and generally don't mingle. There is an age difference as well as a cultural and class difference. Much of Cambridge is gated off into colleges that a town person can't go unless escorted by someone connected to the university.

I was in the gown group, but even within this group there are additional degrees of stratification.

<comment><USER8> I went to Cambridge as an undergrad, and indeed I interacted basically exclusively with other undergrads. Now as an adult I'm living in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and there are tons of undergrad students on the street, and I basically never interact with them at all (nor go into the the various university buildings that are scattered throughout the town).

But I wouldn't describe that as friction? If anything, it seems the opposite of friction, there are separate groups of people who are smoothly gliding past each other... I guess what I'm wondering is, do you feel there are any concrete problems or inconveniences caused by the town/gown distinction?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> The UK could pitch itself as a place rich US tech companies can buy top talent at low price. I have seen some (not many, to be honest) US tech companies open offices in the UK so they can pay half or less for staff, compared to what they'd pay at home. If Brexit goes as badly as it might, the pound could be even cheaper.

<comment><USER11> Why are UK tech salaries so low compared to the US?

<comment><USER12> Because when tech companies come to places in the us they become gentrified and everything becomes expensive. In most cases tech companies coming to an area has a devastating effect as people who had lived in an area forever are forced out due to the insane spike in cost of living.

<comment><USER13> No. You are putting effect before cause.

It's the high salaries that cause gentrification, not gentrification that causes high salaries.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I wouldn't move to US for $140k from my £40k salary in the UK unless they point a gun at my face and force me to do it. So to each their own I guess.

<comment><USER15> I am thinking about moving from US to London. So, I am curious to know why you prefer UK to US despite the salary gap.

Also, do you know how does their healthcare compare?

<comment><USER16> For one, our healthcare is free. Though many companies still provide private healthcare as a benefit. Personally I agree with OP, I wouldn't want to live in the US either. Mainly because capitalism has been taken to an ugly extreme and you might get paid more but you also work more etc. Not to mention the tax and tips culture. Of course there are problems here too; it rains a lot more, and every conversation that goes on long enough always ends up as some sort of brexit complaint ...

<comment> sjm-lbm > every conversation that goes on long enough always ends up as some sort of > brexit complaint

To be fair, we definitely have a problem with normal/non-political conversations suddenly turning political as well. It's even a problem that started in 2016, too :/.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I get the style this article is going for, but Cambridge Science Park (and surrounding areas) have quietly been a major hub for tech for at least the last 2-3 decades. Lots of biotech research, but Microsoft Research has been there since as long as I can remember (I went to school around the corner) as well as major offices for Intel, ARM and any other major player you can think of.

If I had to give an answer to the question 'why now?', I would say because of investment, and also Cambridge has really modernised as a city in the last few years. Plus it is a genuinely nice place to live- good schools, you can cycle and walk everywhere, and cars aren't really allowed in the city centre.

</comment><comment><USER18> Why would you chase people from Universities who have high salary expectations when you have the internet? It is beyond me. Developers storm remote positions, yet the industry is super slow with adoption.

<comment><USER19> Because in-person collaboration is more effective.

<comment> cup-of-tea Haha, erm... source?

<comment><USER20> General life experience?

I don't doubt that the parent wasn't being absolutely comprehensive in the scope of their answer, but surely you appreciate that direct communication in person is.. well, at the very least 'efficient'?

I can't believe you're actually wanting a source for this, lol

<comment> cup-of-tea > but surely you appreciate that direct communication in person is.. well, at > the very least 'efficient'?

No, I don't. I believe written communication is far more efficient. Cavemen talk. Writing is the greatest technology we've ever invented. Forget all your latest devops crazes, you can't do anything useful without writing.

<comment><USER21> > I believe written communication is far more efficient.

Categorically wrong. Two examples:

1) Years ago I was moving out of a shared house and looking for someone to move into my room. One person in particular would only communicate via email about coming to view the room. Consequently _days_ elapsed before we'd got a final arrangement that could have been sorted out with a 10 minute phone call, despite having my number, and me having theirs. Then, when I took half a day off to wait in for this person to visit, they missed the appointment. When I checked my email it turned out they'd emailed me a few minutes before they were due to turn up to tell me they weren't going to make it. Again, despite having my phone number. Already irritated by their behaviour this obviously left me fuming.

2) Just the past few days I've been dealing with an "urgent" support incident where the two people involved have been exchanging emails for three days: a conversation that could be easily accelerated with a call.

In both these cases direct synchronous communication is the key: this might be face to face or on the phone, or a video call, but in no way is written communication more efficient.

<comment><USER22> > Categorically wrong

I disagree. Yesterday I was trying to organise a visit to a luthier for a guitar repair. He told me to phone him, so I phoned, he didn't answer. I left a voicemail, and he phoned me back 15 minutes later, I missed him. On the third attempt, we spoke. I explained what I had written in the email, and he told me that I should call in with the guitar. Overall, it took ~20 minutes of back and forth to resolve an issue that could have been answered in the reply where he told me to phone him.

If you phone me, you are likely to call me at an inconvenient time and interrupt what I'm doing. If you send me an email, and I'm free, I'll respond immediately. If I'm in the middle of something, I'll respond when I'm finished what I'm doing.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> "How do we stop the A.I. brain drain to the U.S. — or to the U.S. companies anyway?"

Uh.. create an alternative work place with comparable benefits and compensation?

<comment><USER3> No, no, how do we stop brain drain to US companies while still paying less than half of what those companies pay?

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> Microsoft has been in Cambridge for decades.

</comment><comment><USER25> Genuinely surprised at how much most people on this thread seem to consider salary as the most important variable when it comes to where you'd want to live.

Relocating TO the US from other countries is often a nightmare, no matter how talented you are.

And I personally care more about how much I like the culture and environment around me after work and on the weekends than how much I'm being paid.

SF is really great, but it's not London.

All that is to say, there's more to it than money. At least for some people.

</comment><comment><USER26> This is a bit strange that this is news considering a lot of the foundations of the tech industry were created at Cambridge and it's never stopped, with ARM being the most visible example. I'm assuming that average people outside of Europe are not aware of Cambridge's importance. Is it also true of the avg person in Europe as well?

</comment><comment><USER27> Strangely the discussions seem to be focused on salaries and the cost of living in the UK.

The article talks about academics being lured away from teaching, which is a problem, I imagine that academics could perhaps guide students in the companies they employed at, like a paid course? Although there's a difference between pure research and getting stuff done.

With all these people working at US companies it creates hubs of knowledge, networks of people, that in turn could spawn new companies, which in the long run is surely a good thing.

</comment><comment><USER28> > According to the recruitment website Hired, the average tech salary in > London is $78,000 a year, versus $142,000 in Silicon Valley.

Does anyone have a like-for-like comparison? What do the FAANGS pay for the same thing in one place or the other? Is Glassdoor reliable for these stats?

I don't think the comparison is so easy, because London has a huge financial tech market which SV probably doesn't. But those incomes might end up in the "finance jobs" column rather than "tech". HFT coders get paid a fair bit, but could reasonably claim to be either.

<comment><USER29> Those incomes enter into the consultant column.</comment></comment>


Mixergy gets to know a lot about Steve Jobs from the founder of Smugmug - <AUTHOR> http://mixergy.com/smugmug-chris-macaskill-interview/

<comment><USER2> _> I remember reading Robert Scoble talked about you, guys, like he invented it himself, like SmugMug was his baby._

Scoble does that shit with everything -- see how ridiculous he got with FriendFeed (and how much of an ass he made out of himself at Startup School)

<comment><USER3> Yea at first I thought friend feed was his company...

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Check out the story of how Steve Jobs cried his way to a deal.

I should probably clip the Steve Jobs stories because Chris tells them so well.

<comment><AUTHOR> One of your best interviews. Actually now that I have finished listening to the whole interview, the Steve Jobs part was only one of the highlights. The rest was amazing too.

<comment><USER5> Hear, hear. The MightyWords story was awesome. Chris seems so relatable. I wish there was more videos of him speaking and telling stories.

Good job Andrew, this was an awesome interview.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> This is simply amazing. Do give it a listen.

</comment><comment><USER6> The story of getting Next ported to Intel, and it made the difference in Apple buying Next instead of BeOS, was great.

The behind the scene handling of Steve Jobs is classic "managing up."

</comment><comment><USER7> Please everybody, listen the whole way through. The Steve stories are in the first have of the interview. And they're pretty juicy (maybe just because we've never heard them before, unlike lots of other Steve legend?).

You may be tempted to stop the interview after that. But Chris is an amazing and admirable entrepreneur AND person. He shares some really moving stuff about his background that makes all of the Steve stuff fall away.

</comment><comment><USER8> Andrew, it looks like the audio feed in iTunes is stuck. I've been itching to hear the latest episodes.

<comment><USER9> It has been completely borked in Google Listen. No Mixergy updates in 2 weeks now, which is unfortunate, as I often listen to podcasts while commuting. ITunes has been working for me though.

<comment><USER4> Sorry. We can't seem to get it back up, but we're working on it.

I hired a wp company to figure out what's going on and straighten it out.

If anyone has any insight: <http://mixergy.com/contact>

<comment><USER10> I'm glad you're looking into it. I tweeted about it to you but didn't hear back and wasn't sure if it was a technical problem or a business decision. (though odd since the video feed seemed fine)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> If you are down and need inspiration _now_ , listen to this.

Chris, if you are reading this, thanks for sharing. Amazing, amazing, amazing.

Andrew, the best so far.

</comment><comment><USER12> Now this is what a real interview should be like. I really need to tip my hat to Andrew for probing with some uncomfortable questions and applaud Chris for answering them. Usually you just hear someone speak about what they do; It is not often you get to hear someone speak about who they are and how they got to be that way.

</comment><comment><USER13> Great interview, filled with interesting stories - well worth checking out just for the Steve Job stories.

PS: And thanks Andrew, for steering away from linkbait titles.

</comment><comment><USER14> Andrew, get your site a favicon!

<comment><USER4> Thanks, but I think I have one.</comment></comment>


Amazon Launches Credit Card for Prime Members - <AUTHOR> http://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-to-launch-credit-card-for-prime-members-1484136003 <comment><USER2> Seems to compete with the Amazon visa they've had for over a decade!

<comment><USER3> It sounds like another tier. Non-Prime gets 3% and Prime gets 5%.</comment></comment>


A trend toward softness, by Bill Gates (1984) - <AUTHOR> https://www.atarimagazines.com/creative/v10n11/121_A_trend_toward_softness.php <comment><USER2> What a horribly biased article, typical of Microsoft at that time. Two examples:

"Because the Intel 8080 was the first chip, everyone wrote software for it. When the Motorola 6800 came out years later". Yeah, 1974 vs. ... 1974.

"The operating system is now evolving to include graphics, as in the Microsoft Windows system" \- which didn't appear on the market until about a year after the publication of that article.

</comment><comment><USER3> A company called "Micro _soft_ " is selling the idea that software trumps hardware. Paint me surprised. In general, he proved mostly right, but the OS can limit "softness" in a way similar to what hardware did, and this includes Windows.</comment>


The secret life of open source developers [video] - <AUTHOR> https://media.ccc.de/v/bucharest-322-the-secret-life-of-open-source-developers <comment><USER2> I once got a mail for a free software I published: "You're product sucks, I don't like it, why are you even doing this? There are much better alternatives out there.".

So what to do with that? I have to admit that this mail really stung for a while. Maybe I should have asked, why it sucked for this person, but then, why should I care about someone rude?

It didn't take me long to learn that some percentage of people tend to behave badly, especially on the internet and I can't do anything about it. I don't even exclude myself, I also wrote things to support addresses that I regret now. Overall, when I release something in the open now I do it because either I don't care, it's good for my image or I hope that people like it. I ignore rude comments and enjoy the happy ones. You would hope that people that know about OSS would be more considerate but they just aren't, free-loaders exist everywhere, it's a human problem, but it's also no reason to not stay idealistic.

EDIT: typo

<comment><USER3> I got a weird reverse one a few years back, to the effect of "your result is great, best I've seen, but the code is awful and I think you're not a good developer". What can you do? I just said something like "thanks, if you have any specific feedback please open an issue".

One thing that's nice about getting this via GitHub is, at least the rude comment maybe gets a couple of :thumbsdown:s on it, which can help you brush it off.

<comment><USER4> I used to really care about my own code quality in OSS but these days I just think it's a miracle if I manage to write _any_ code (for the same reasons described in that video: full time job + family and other social obligations, eg I also do volunteer work most weekends).

The way I see it, writing working code is more important than writing "good" code most of the time. That's not to say I don't try and follow some degree of standards. My code usually contains a crap load of tests, definitely tries to follow the language idioms, etc. But I just don't try and get clever where I don't need to. Sometimes this means code isn't well optimised - however I can pick that up in a subsequent bug fix if that particular feature proves useful / popular.

Thus I have had one or two people comment before saying "it's not very well coded" and I usually just reply "it's very much living project where some code is working POC and other code has been rewritten and improved (sometimes many times over). However if you have any specific concerns or tips, I'd welcome them. Or better yet, chuck me a PR"

<comment><USER5> Funny thing about that: Complainers always seem to think that the code that they could have written but didn't is better than the code that you could write and did. The trifling fact that theirs does not, in fact, _exist_ never seems to register with them.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> There are many reasons why I use open source, but far and away one of the biggest reasons is simply the power it gives you as a user. I know it's a cliche but if there's a problem you want fixed, you really can go and fix it, and everyone else benefits. Once you have a full community, this becomes extremely powerful.

The thing is, though, I really only work on things in a more selfish manner. For example, I've been contributing a bit to a very cool project called Kaitai Struct. But as cool as it is, I'm contributing for myself, on things I personally care about.

If you work at a company and you are bickering with open source maintainers, you're really missing the point of open source. If it's costing you money, then it was _making_ you money. Give a tiny bit of effort back, and you benefit yourself and incidentally everyone else too. It's a win-win, and you won't get blocked on Twitter. If you/your company genuinely can't spare the expense of spending a few engineer hours a week on FOSS, but also can't afford to buy support contracts or pay for commercial software, that really seems like a problem, doesn't it?

Disclaimer: I probably do not do enough open source work to really speak with authority. If you want to judge for yourself, I am jchv on Github.

</comment><comment><USER7> Hmmmm I dunno...

You make software available to other people, for free. But it's for them to use it (else, what's the point ?). So you're exposing yourself to _users_ and users behave like users.

It's not because you give away something for free that its value (and the way that value is recognized, for example, by being polite) is any different.

The only thing you get by making it is the right, as a creator, to make it the way you want. That's the freedom you get (and what a beautiful one). But it doesn't give you any power on those who'll use it (well, except for the license); in particular, you have no power to make the users polite.

Now, of course, I prefer to talk with people who are polite and who express gratitude for the work I do for free. And of course I don't like rude people. But making FOSS doesn't change the human nature of you users. Even if you put hard work in it, you sacrifice a bit of your life...

So, the overall tone of the presentation seems a bit off to me. I would have preferred something like : here's why we do it, what motivates us, the success, the failures,... But the user, well, they just are what they are, software can't fix that.

(in case you wonder, yes, I've made some open source projects, one success, on failure and guess what, the success, at least to me, was measured by the number of users).

<comment><USER8> > it doesn't give you any power

The mistake is thinking it's about power. It's about aligning goals. A lot of the individual motivation for OSS is about making the world (what the developer believes is) a better place. Things that contribute to that vision are welcome; things that distract from it are not. The first category includes detailed bug reports and feature requests consistent with the software's existing direction. The second includes vague bug reports and requests for features that the developers don't believe in. Try demanding that security software should include a back door and see what kind of reception that gets.

The problem isn't that asking developers to do things for you is rude by itself. You can ask politely, they can decline politely, end of story. It's not even that _pestering_ developers after such a refusal is rude, even though that's obviously the case. The problem is that such an approach isn't very _effective_. If you can convince the developers that fixing your problem is consistent with their own vision of how to make the project fulfill its existing goals, that's much more effective than mere badgering. If you want someone to do something for you, in _any_ context, it's better to have them think of you as a collaborator than as someone who just makes demands.

<comment><USER9> Right, so once you start "aligning goals", the concept of power and power itself just snaps out of existence, and the contributor ceases to be a human being and transcends into a divine roadmap.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I'm curious: where the "secret life of" comes from? The earlier example that I could find was "the secret life of plants" a Stevie Wonder music.

<comment><USER11> I'd guess "The Secret Life of Walter Mitty", which is actually about his daydreams, his internal secret life, not some real world life behind closed doors.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> Definitely a good refresher video. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that its important to re-visit what we take for granted every single day and at the least be appreciative of all the amazing value open source software community brings.</comment>


Icon (programming language) - <AUTHOR> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icon_%28programming_language%29 <comment><USER2> The I/O example and comparison to Java is curious:

> In this case there are two comparisons needed, one for end of file (EOF) and > another for all other errors. Since Java does not allow errors to be > compared as logic elements, as under Icon, the lengthy try/catch syntax must > be used instead.

Can you really say it's a _desirable_ feature for a language to treat EOF and other errors, like file not found, in the same way?

<comment><USER3> The passage is just clarifying the concept of goal-directed execution by comparison with the mainstream approach represented by Java, using a very standard example. There's nothing curious here, and there's no expository reason to start imposing additional requirements out of a suspicion that Java is being treated unfairly. Everyone knows Java is relatively verbose.

Icon isn't forcing the distinction of EOF from errors, but that doesn't mean Icon is incapable of expressing the distinction.

Whether it's more desirable or not, "while write(read())" is remarkably concise and looks simple. Also in Icon's favor, it's nice not to have to enumerate failure differences which are irrelevant to the situation. Everyone who ever complained about Java's checked exceptions knows what I mean.

My reservations are about whether the concise idiom will make more complex cases harder to understand. I'm troubled by the example's implication that Icon is designed to silence exceptions by default, which is bad practice in any language.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> There's also an extension to Icon known as Unicon:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicon_(programming_language)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicon_\(programming_language\))

Which seems to add some impressive features to Icon.</comment>


The simple issue tracker(collaboration tool) for non-programmer - <AUTHOR>

I built a issue tracking tool which focused on user-intarface that works for non-programmer as well.
There are wiki and chat functions too for remote workers collaboration.I would love some feedback on whether or not the concept resonates.
You can check it out at http://hyla.io/ and LIKE us at https://www.facebook.com/hyla.io
You'll get a free startup account for signing up.
Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions? <comment><USER2> You should make a demo version that people can explore before signing up. That would make your features more tangible.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for your advice! I will upload some demo videos to make this service more tangible!</comment>


The Tragedy of Maybe and Ruby - <AUTHOR> http://bendyworks.com/blog/tragedy-maybe-monad-ruby <comment><USER2> If you prefer typed languages there are lots of them available. Ruby isn't one :)

<comment><AUTHOR> Oh, I'm very much into Elm lately. I'm aware they're out there. It just took me a long time with Elm (and others) for me to articulate a _better_ reason why `Maybe` is useful.</comment></comment>


Lunascript, another language for writing great web apps - <AUTHOR> http://www.asana.com/luna <comment><USER2> I respect the ambition, but doesn't it seem like a waste of time and money for a brand new startup to focus on the creation of a brand new language (+compiler +debugging facilities +documentation for new employees +libraries +...) before making the core product? I understand the argument that better languages = increased productivity. But designing a new language is a serious investment, and unless what they've made is so revolutionary that it completely changes the web development paradigm, it doesn't seem as if it would pay off.

<comment><USER3> If it increases the chance of a technology or people acquisition it would be creating value.

<comment><USER4> It decreases the chance of an acquisition, unless things have changed since the last time I was involved in acquisition talks. A sticking point in at least 3 acquisition attempts I was involved in (one consummated) was the use of idiosyncratic tech; in one case, it was using Tcl; in another, OpenBSD.

<comment><USER5> Great information, thanks! I take it the companies using Tcl and OpenBSD failed to get acquired.

I didn't realize the technology used would deter an acquirer. This probably explains why most startups go with "safe choices".

<comment><USER4> I'm not going to say that (eg) OpenBSD kept a company from getting acquired; terms and timing were more important. But it was continuously raised as an issue, seriously enough that the engineering team was asked to port.

Bizdev is an awful reason to choose technology, or for that matter to make any other decision about your product. I'm just refuting the statement that writing your own programming language will _help_ you get bought.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I'm interested in _exactly_ the sort of application framework they seem to be talking about. This is really how web apps (or all apps) should be built.

The Wikipedia link isn't terribly informative, but there's a ton of more relevant literature tied in with functional reactive programming. (That's the FRP in their to-do list). In particular, there's a research project called Flapjax that you can play with right now that drives home how nice it _could_ be to program in this paradigm.

I have two worries about Luna, though. It doesn't look like they're using a nice type system, which will be a pain for larger apps. And I can't say I like that "Finish patent documentation for incremental computing framework" to-do item.

</comment><comment><USER7> I interviewed with Asana back in October and I got to see an in-person demo of the app Justin shows at the 1:45 mark, a "structured list editor" that he says they use internally to track bugs and projects. It's not just a hello world app they built to test the language, it's a real app they use daily and fast fast _fast_. After poking around on it with only keyboard shortcuts while discussing UI ideas for a few minutes, I completely forget that it was a web app. It didn't have any of gmail's or google reader's lag, for example, which are the only apps with keyboard shortcuts I use regularly.

<comment><USER5> I would guess the speediness was because the server was in the same building?

<comment><USER8> They promote offline caching, so I'm betting speediness was because his edits were modifying a local db then going through diff resolution after they displayed.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> This language looks pretty awesome, reading the example code I can see how it would slash my loc for ajaxy stuff by at least an order of magnitude.

However, I am confused about this announcement since I cannot discover what your company does from the web page and except the video there's not much to go on about the language. Perhaps you want to fill in some blanks in the comment section?

</comment><comment><USER9> > There's no need to write separate code to help the server figure out which > values need to be sent to the client: the server can do this by simulating > the UI.

Interesting approach.

The screencast is very good.

Wonder if that 1500 line todo list app is part of Asana?

<comment><USER10> Isn't this a bit similar than what GWT does? GWT requires Java which is clunkier than a modern dynamic language, but still...

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> It seems like writing a whole new language is a bit overkill... why not simply stick to the framework layer?

<comment><USER6> You really want to write code only once, and compile it to two targets: One for the server, one for the client. This is really hard to do in all current mainstream languages.

To illustrate: You have some piece of state y, and you have x = f(y) that means "x is always the value of f(y), when y changes, update x." Furthermore x is shared state across many users. On the server side you want that statement to generate code for synchronizing values of x and y across users. On the client side you want to generate code for pushing and pulling Ajax/Comet updates from the others.

</comment></comment><comment> b-man Isn't this somewhat equivalent to flapjax[1]?

[1] <http://www.flapjax-lang.org/>

<comment><USER12> I don't think so. I don't see any functional reactive stuff in Luna, whereas that's the whole point of Flapjax...

Edit: reading more closely, I see why you say that -- "incremental computing" link makes me think of FRP a little bit. But these people's goal with Lunascript seems to be automatic communication between the client and server. The "incremental" part is sending only what's needed to the client to execute the client-side code, which is a really cool idea, but not very much like FRP, I think.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Andrew Warner should interview these guys immediately.</comment>


Ask HN: How do I build a robust social media profile data scraper? - <AUTHOR> * though any language would do, but please Python. * any existing solutions paid/free, is welcome. <comment><USER2> Hello, I do some webscraping at my job using python, but I've found that scraping social media for non-specific data is often the same amount of work as manual searching or using google search tools like "site:". With that said, and similar to anigbrowl's comment, without a specific goal in mind you will be hard pressed to solve your problem. Social media scraping varies heavily by platform in terms of what information is available to scrape (without brute force).

If you want some social media OSINT tools that are already built in python, Black Arch has a list of open-source tools that you can access and use:

[https://blackarch.org/social.html](https://blackarch.org/social.html)

If you are trying to identify someone's social media, Sherlock or Spiderfoot are commonly cited, but again, I don't think that these tools save that much as opposed to just using Google's search logic efficiently.

[https://github.com/sherlock-project/sherlock](https://github.com/sherlock- project/sherlock)

</comment><comment><USER3> You need to be more specific about what part you're having a problem with and what your goal is: to build a scraper you can sell or give away, to accumulate social media data for commercial purposes, or some research goal?

There's no generic solution, since every platform is different, and there's no one scraping library (or approach) to rule them all. Most efforts I've seen use BeautifulSoup to parse web pages and/or Selenium to automate browser actions, but I'm sure there are better alternatives. It is a frustrating space to work in as many/most tools are limited and the methods jealously guarded, much as most social media companies jealously guard the data they harvest.

You could probably learn a lot by leveraging existing tools and seeing what you can do on the analysis side. Twitter has a fairly well-specified API and if you are getting frustrated with the limits of that, there's twint. Facebook is the biggest 'pile' of data but they know it and when you look at the source a FB page you can see there's a lot of stuff that messes up your ability to parse that data, accidentally or deliberately. You might be better providing tooling for small but growing social media platforms that are not as big (and so less valuable/profitable to scrape) but also don't have the accumulated digital sediment that makes it difficult to do so.

</comment><comment><USER4> It's not an easy problem, and doing it successfully will be expensive.

First, you need a reliable API, ignoring rate limiting / verification concerns. To get that, you should reverse engineer the mobile apps and replicate their API calls. For many apps, you can find an active GitHub project doing this already. But note that it's a moving target. As an alternative, you may consider setting up a device farm and automating interactions via something like Cycript.

Next, you need to circumvent anti-abuse measures. For most social networks, this means you need to create fake profiles. This will likely entail phone verification. You will also need multiple residential proxies to route traffic through, but not too many per account.

For phone verification, VOIP numbers will not work. Check blackhat forums for services offered in countries in SE Asia with SIM farms for real numbers. Note that you may not have perpetual access to these numbers, so if you're prompted to re-verify a number for an account, you might have to just burn the account. You may be able to appear "less suspicious" by setting up TOTP (which can be automated) on your accounts and removing the phone number, if possible.

For IP addresses, you need non-datacenter IPs that other people are not using. Your best bet is luminati.io, which is the business side of the Hola chrome extension that routes your requests through users' computers. You can get "sticky" IPs but only insofar as a user continues to be online. The minimum commitment is $500 per month, bandwidth is expensive and all requests are tracked. You will need to pass a Skype interview to sign up.

tl;dr It's possible, but doing it successfully requires significant investment in infrastructure and time. You will need to partake in "gray market" activities and deal with some shady operations. Depending on your jurisdiction, you will likely violate at least one law.

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> thank you fellas for your comments, they are definitely helpful. for now, i'm finding a way to extract bios (biographies) from twitter, instagram and FB for research purposes; later I plan to scale that up to include other social media platforms (Youtube, LinkedIn, ...)

I am thinking it as use APIs for it (if they exist) or build a crawler to scrape the data.

is it something that can be done without violating any law?

</comment><comment><USER5> You could pay for Nexus Lexus if you want the real dirty on people</comment>


Next generation code generator for go - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/awalterschulze/goderive <comment><AUTHOR> I created gogoprotobuf, but I wanted to create a new code generator for go that does not only work for protocol buffers, but for all go types.

goderive parses your go code for functions which are not implemented and then generates these functions for you by deriving their implementations from the parameter types.

These functions includes: \- recursive functions like GoString and CopyTo \- functions for sets like Contains and Union and \- functions from functional programming like Filter, Fmap and Compose (monad) \- concurrent functions like applicative Do (from haxl)

Use cases: \- More maintainable code \- Experience or experiment with what it would be like to use generic functions in Go ... today. \- Create user stories for Go 2 in favour of or against generics. \- Don't argue about using labels and gotos, instead of just writing a contains function. \- Do functional programming in go. Well only partly because mutability is still a thing. \- Less typing of: `if err != nil return err`. The compose function implements monadic error handling. \- less error prone concurrency.

Ready for production and experimentation.</comment>


Stashboard: open-source status page for cloud services and APIs - <AUTHOR> http://www.stashboard.org/ <comment><USER2> If you really don't want to pay for a status page (YC [https://www.statuspage.io/](https://www.statuspage.io/)), and want self- hosted check out Cachethq ([https://cachethq.io](https://cachethq.io)).

<comment><USER3> Cachet is great! It has a nice JSON API that I integrate with StatusGator ([https://statusgator.io](https://statusgator.io)) for sending status alerts to email, Slack, SMS, webhooks, etc.

I wish some of the big commercial status page providers had a similar API so I could avoid scraping.

<comment><USER4> Thanks Colin!

The guys at Pingometer said that our API "was the easiest integration we've ever done!", we pride ourselves on a nice API.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I'm a bit surprised I never see services which treat status pages as static sites. But it seems like they're prime candidates for that, right after blogs. (they are kind of blogs really) Have a separate service where you can manage the entries and then auto-upload to any number of providers/regions. Are there any reasons this isn't the common way to do it?

<comment><USER6> There are still good reasons for a dyanmic status pages. Many offer the ability to subscribe to new incidents via webhooks, email and SMS, which is difficult to do with a static site.

Also, when you're experiencing downtime, you want the most up-to-date information on the status page, which may be difficult if you're aggressively caching a static site.

<comment><USER4> I've thoroughly thought about adding a static option to Cachet, but when you add things like Metric Points and subscribers (as you say) it does become a lot harder to cache efficiently.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Still remember when Kyle ([https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=conroy](https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=conroy)) wrote this at Twilio. It used to power [http://status.twilio.com/](http://status.twilio.com/) but it looks like they've since moved to statuspage.io.

<comment><USER6> Yep! It was my intern project for a summer. It ran on App Engine because we didn't want it on the same infrastructure as the Twilio cluster (us-east-1 at the time).

As others have mentioned in the comments, Stashboard is no longer maintained. If you're looking for a hosted status page, statuspage.io is great. I was actually in the same YC batch as them. They couldn't believe that the creator of their number one competitor (again, at the time) was also in YC. Small world.

<comment><USER8> Nice to see some old-time Twilians in here. Stashboard is great, although I appreciate the hostedness of statusboard.io. When things are breaking, the last thing you want to be debugging is your status board.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Fair warning: This project is hella abandoned. It works, but don't expect much.

Source: Previously used it to power our status page.

<comment><USER4> Out of interest, did you replace Stashboard with something else?

<comment><USER9> Yeah, we stitched to a hosted solution.</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Balancing wealth distribution by beating forex and sharing profits - <AUTHOR> If someone found a way to consistently beat the forex market, would the profit be enough to rebalance the distribution of resource in the world, or would it eventually deplete itself? <comment><USER2> How is this all that different than simply raising taxes and trying to use that money toward the same end? While I have never messed with Forex, my understanding is that it relies on an ongoing seesaw between the value of currencies or other goods. Deriving money from Forex is really no different than printing counterfeit money. Neither one would deplete itself, but I cannot see Forex rebalancing global resource distribution with any down-to- earth principal. If you owned the entire resource pool on all sides, that would be a different story, but I don't imagine that's what you're talking about.

If I'm understanding your end goal here, I cannot see anything like Forex being of much help in balancing resource distribution. Even if everyone were using the same currency and pulling from the exact same resource pool, there would still be a great disparity in distribution. Just look at any big nation, and you're bound to see plenty of unbalance internally.

<comment><AUTHOR> It's different because only one entity is at work here, so it's not possible to increase taxes. I think I see where you're going. The market would never stop working as long as people keep buying and selling currencies! That's interesting.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> > consistently beat the forex market

No longer possible at this point. Too many players with too much information for any considerable leverage to be had for too long. Remember any financial market is basically just tons of really smart people trying to out smart each other.

> rebalance the distribution of resource

That's not a money problem, it's a political problem and a fashion problem. Some countries are getting into a fashion for ugly veg and fruit, that's certainly a step in the right direction.

</comment><comment><USER4> How much capital do you have and how much can your system guarantee? A system which worked in the past may not work in the future or in real time.

Making money is about taking risk. If your aiming at making billions of dollars with millions then chances are that the risk will eat you up

<comment><AUTHOR> Assume the system is guaranteed to win with a 100% probability, and the capital is unlimited since it keeps compounding. So the question is "is there enough money in the market to even inequalities in wealth distribution?"</comment></comment>


The Empress Has No Clothes: The Dark Side of Women Tech Groups - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP6uyX9hDc0 <comment><USER2> well something like that won't help the gender problem.

I'm a guy, but I never liked the "woman only" or even "men only" groups. it's so disruptive. they form a castle around themselfs instead of really changing the world. I also think that these -only groups won't help the diversity problem. people in tech should actually be rated by their skills and not by anything else.

</comment><comment><USER3> Text version: [https://email@example.com/the-empress-has-no- cloth...](https://firstname.lastname@example.com/the-empress-has-no-clothes-the- dark-underbelly-of-women-who-code-and-google-women-techmakers-723be27a45df)

</comment><comment><USER4> I'm surprised this is getting so little attention.</comment>


Purism Librem 5 August Update - <AUTHOR> https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-august-update/ <comment><USER2> Why aren't they issuing updates on the hardware itself? Their website says they will begin shipping preorders in Q3 2019 - so they have about 40 days before they miss that (unless they're already shipping and we haven't heard about it, but I suspect the day the first device goes in the mail they'll announce it)

<comment><USER3> I have the same concern. I preordered the device but to be honest, I'd be impressed if it shipped by the end of the year considering the final specs were just recently announced and we have yet to see even one completed retail device.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Is anyone concerned about timescale here?

"We have worked on a few recent main efforts on Calls: adding a calls history, allowing the Contacts app to dial numbers, and enabling the system to receive calls when the shell is locked."

Call History, dialing from Contacts and receiving calls when locked seem like really, really low-hanging fruit. For this to be the stage of development worries me. I'm not saying they will take the money and run, they've got an impressive record on delivering, but I don't know about "We are preparing everything for the Librem 5 to be delivered soon"

<comment><USER5> I know its for-profit, but I hope members of the Gnome community pitch in where they can. This phone would be a big deal if it was a success.

If I wasn't so busy lately, it would be neat to try to get the Anki AppImage working on it

<comment><USER6> I haven't been hanging out in their chat rooms lately but for months and months there has been a lot going on. Gnome foundation people and regular community have been doing tons

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Looks good, but I think the "people" icons need a little more work (these seem to be the most difficult icons to get right).</comment>


The Microvision Simulation Project - <AUTHOR> http://home.comcast.net/~eichler2/microvision/MicroSimProject.htm

<comment><USER2> Nice one! I still have mine. :)

<comment><AUTHOR> I came across it recently while cleaning out a box of old stuff. Was wondering if it was ever emulated and found that.

The first portable with interchangeable games I believe?</comment></comment>


Ask HN: How do you determine what technology stack to use? - <AUTHOR> With so many options (especially in web technology) how do you decide on what to use? <comment><USER2> I use the SDK of the platform being targeted.

Meaning on Windows, whatever is available out of the box alongside VS, usually .NET languages or C++.

If Java is the platform, then Java itself.

On Android, Java and C++. Kotlin if any of the new Kotlin only APIs is to be used.

On Apple platforms, nowadays Swift and C++.

For Web projects, vanillaJS with JavaScript, unless something like Angular is asked for, then Typescript.

And so forth, basically platform tech.

Also take into consideration whatever the customer has in place, and if something else is not requested, that whatever is already part of production.

</comment><comment><USER3> I use what I know best unless there is a specific need to use something else.

I also tend to favour the simplest and most stable option based on actual needs. For example, when a database is needed, sqlite goes a long way.

</comment><comment><USER4> I'm a frontend JS dev so I use whatever was released most recently.</comment>


Show HN: Good or Bad? for iPhone/iPad - <AUTHOR>

Hi HackerNewsers,
I've built a few iPhone apps before. One of them was in a few TV commercials for Apple's 3GS campaign. Three apps I've worked on made top ten in their category.
I'm posting to show off my new app, Good or Bad?, which is built for everyone, but I think it's also good enough to be fun for hackers. I can also answer questions about iOS development and Objective-C.
http://goodorbadapp.com/
If you're really strapped for cash but still want to try the app out let me know your email address and I'll send you a promo code. <comment><USER2> Cool app, I checked it out on the app store from my phone. I like those kinds of apps, it's kind of like "Eatery" where you post pictures of things you've eaten and vote on others photos (healthy or unhealthy). The data is cool at the end, I just can't get myself to be that active with those between Foursquare, Alfred, and yes, Facebook...

</comment><comment><USER3> I was hoping the screenshot on your site actually worked, even if you could just vote and not see the stats. Cool though.</comment>


Bootbox.js - alert, confirm and flexible dialogs for Twitter's bootstrap - <AUTHOR> http://paynedigital.com/2011/11/bootbox-js-alert-confirm-dialogs-for-twitter-bootstrap <comment><USER2> Hi all - thanks for all the comments, great to see this article made it to Hacker News! Glad some more people are finding a use for the library. Feel free to get involved with the project on Github - not sure of HN etiquette so won't post the link but it's available via the article.

Cheers!

Nick

<comment><USER3> Nick, we love links, post away.

<comment><USER2> I guess on a site all about links I really should have figured that one out!

Main github repo: <https://github.com/makeusabrew/bootbox>

Issues list / feature requests: <https://github.com/makeusabrew/bootbox/issues>

And a bit of a rubbish demo: <http://makeusabrew.github.com/bootbox/demo/>

Cheers!

Nick

<comment><USER4> Hi Nick! Thanks for making this, I'm going to add it to a project right now.

One quick note -- it'd be cool if you had a big "find me on Github" button near the top, just for convenience. And so that people understand right away that it is a project they can easily download and mess around with.

You could even go for something snazzy like an unofficial Github watch or fork button:

[http://www.markdotto.com/2011/11/26/introducing- unofficial-g...](http://www.markdotto.com/2011/11/26/introducing-unofficial- github-buttons/)

<comment><USER2> Those unofficial watch / follow buttons are awesome! I'll definitely find a way to integrate one or both of them into articles which relate to Github repos. Cheers! :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I ended up making something very similar to this for my current project, glad to know it wasn't just me. Mine's a bit more specialized to fit into my app as a module and is made to manage all modals (handy to have to manually manage making sure only one modal is shown at a time). Hopefully there are some spots I can contribute to here.

</comment><comment><USER6> Sweet, twitter bootstrap is already awesome, and this makes it ... awesome-er! Lovely stuff.

</comment><comment><USER7> Pretty cool. A nice exploration of what's possible with the framework

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> Thanks Nick! I'm one of the very first user of this from the day it was released and the one who shared it here. bootbox helped me a lot in my thesis web app! Cheers! Enjoy :)

</comment><comment><USER8> This is really awesome! I'm just getting started on bootstrap and this looks like it's going to make things even easier. Thanks for your work!

</comment><comment><USER9> Ah cool, my good buddy Nick made this!

</comment><comment><USER10> is it just me that thinks dialog boxes sucks?

i don't want to get interrupted in my flow.

design so that you don't need something to pop up in the users face.

</comment><comment><USER11> <http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap/#javascript>

<comment><USER5> What's your point? Their JS for Modals doesn't let you create modals, just show/hide them and provide a few events.

<http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap/javascript.html#modal></comment></comment>


Silicon Valley gets a taste for food - <AUTHOR> http://www.economist.com/news/technology-quarterly/21645497-tech-startups-are-moving-food-business-make-sustainable-versions-meat

<comment><USER2> I've been eating soylent for "utility" meals for about 2 weeks now and I couldn't be happier with the product. I usually eat one meal a day for the satisfaction of eating food, but it's nice not having to deal with preparation for the breakfast or lunch at work. This article is even slightly outdated as soylent 1.4 was released a couple of weeks ago.

<comment><USER3> I actually just got my first batch of Soylent this week, and I'm cutting out 'traditional' food for 2 weeks as an experiment. I've only been eating it for about a day and a half now, but changing from eating discrete meals to sipping on a cup of Soylent continuously throughout the day is very different.

Have you noticed any psychological changes in how you view food since starting?

<comment><USER4> The most noticeable thing to me is, before I started using Soylent as meal replacement, I noticed my brain would shift attention and in a way interrupt me to say "you need to go eat now, you're hungry". These days I don't notice the interruptions as often and when they do happen they're not as significant. Instead it's more like "Ok, I'm done with that task, what should I do now. Oh yeah, I haven't eaten lunch yet..."

<comment><USER3> I'm curious, is there any reason you're breaking your Soylent consumption up into meals? I've just been keeping a small mug of it on my desk and sip regularly while I work; every hour or two I'll get up and refill it.

Aside from the convenience factor, it's nice (and strange) to go through my day only feeling hungry in the morning before I've started eating.

<comment><USER4> Actually I just used the term "lunch" to communicate the idea. I do similar to what you've described. But generally I try not to let it sit there too long, mainly because I imagine a spilled glass of Soylent might not be good for the laptop :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> beyond meat's patent is such a fucking joke. [https://www.google.com/patents/US20120093994](https://www.google.com/patents/US20120093994)

<comment><USER6> How is that a real patent? As far as I can tell (and I'm not a lawyer), they're patenting mixing protein, carbohydrates, fats, and water in specific ratios to make a meat substitute. Why isn't every veggie burger ever prior art in this case?

<comment><USER7> I showed it to a former patent examiner.

It's just an application for a patent. It was rejected on 2/20/15\. Now it's just kept around as prior art.

They also requested and then denied a refund on their filing fees apparently. Cause it's a really stupid patent.

<comment><USER8> Well no not exactly. Yes, a final rejection was issued by the patent office on 2/24/15, and the applicant still has up to 6 months to respond to the final rejection or to file an appeal. With respect to the request for refund, the applicant requested a refund of extension fees and excess claim fees. The refund for extension fees was granted but the refund for excess claim fees was denied. None of this has anything to do with the merits of the patent application itself.

To check on the status of this patent application, go to [http://portal.uspto.gov/pair/PublicPair](http://portal.uspto.gov/pair/PublicPair), enter the captcha, and then enter the patent application number (13/272,825). Select the Image File Wrapper tab to view the various documents relating to the prosecution of the patent application.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> What's interesting about this tack is that it would go against the anti- corporate anti-big food movements which have steadily grown since the mid seventies and had taken root vigorously in the recession and expressed itself with people cooking at home more, cooking from scratch more. A belief that the closer to the source the healthier the food.

But this is an attempt to figure out how to feed a growing world cheaply (pocket-wise and ecology-wise) which small local organic farming would have trouble achieving, presumably.

</comment><comment><USER10> Is there a working theory yet on how taste and smell work?

(Can they be decomposed like the RGB triplets of vision, or the frequencies of sound?)

<comment><USER11> Taste comes down to combinations of 5 basic flavors, but smell is very complex and as far as I know, not well understood. The actual experience of food however, combines both of these as well as temperature, texture, color, and more.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> The hamburger substitute sounds promising, but if the point of this is to create protein efficiently then this doesn't make any sense to me:

 _" Mayonnaise made without eggs that is creamy and smooth."_

Eggs are one of the most efficient sources of protein there is.

<comment><USER13> Right, but (at least in theory) the total economic/environmental cost of growing the plants is lower than that of raising the chickens to produce the eggs.

<comment><USER14> Do you have information on the environmental cost of growing the plants vs eggs?

I would agree that factory farming of eggs has a terrible effect but it seems like on a small scale it wouldn't necessarily be true.

<comment><USER15> It takes ~2.4 kg of feed to grow ~1 kg of (cooked) eggs.

(this is called the feed conversion ratio)

Eating vegetarian gives the baseline for comparison, a conversion ratio of ~1:1 (I think it is better to not claim exactly 1, animals eat different things than humans and maybe do better with extracting value from fiber).

The details of a given process for making a lower compromise meat replacement would have to be considered to calculate the equivalent measure. I don't think it would even be 2:1, but that's just a guess.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Silicon Valley needs to understand the food domain and it's environmental impact better before investing in these processed food startups. We already have the most efficient machine that converts plant matter into meat. It's called a cow. Cows and other ruminants have evolved over millions, if not billions of years, to make this process super efficient using just solar energy (photosynthesis) and water. Who are we to think we can do better in a few years in the lab?

Have these companies thought about the environmental impact of growing more row crops to create this fake meat and eggs? Row crops destroy ecosystems and reduce topsoil. It's also a system that sounds like it would need lots of logistics and energy to operate. Also it's not sustainable.

Silicon Valley should instead fund organizations looking to work with nature to create the future of food. Companies like Summer Technologies [1] are doing the right thing by acknowledging nature and creating technology that empowers sustainable agriculture that scales. With the right tools, these kind of farms can be more productive than massive industrial farms [2], feed the growing population of the world [3], while improving the quality of land and reducing CO2. It's a win-win-win if I've ever seen one.

This article also fails to mention anything about how the dangers of meat are greatly over exaggerated and not corroborated by modern science. [4] And what's wrong with eggs? They're one of the most nutritious foods out there with healthy omega-3 fats and a variety of minerals that are sorely lacking in modern processed food diets.

[1] [http://www.summertechnologies.com](http://www.summertechnologies.com)

[2] Soil Carbon Cowboys: [http://www.carbonnationmovie.com/about/clips/225-new- video-s...](http://www.carbonnationmovie.com/about/clips/225-new-video-soil- carbon-cowboys)

[3] [http://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_green_the_world...](http://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_green_the_world_s_deserts_and_reverse_climate_change)

[4] [http://chriskresser.com/red-meat-it-does-a-body- good](http://chriskresser.com/red-meat-it-does-a-body-good)

<comment><USER17> I don't see any evidence that we have "the most efficient machine" and that it's a cow. Evolution is incredibly slow, and humans outpacing it (using their brains) is exactly why we're at the top of the food chain.

Who are we to think we _can 't_ do better in the lab, when almost every worthwhile human invention has been precisely that – beating evolution at its own game?

I do agree with your initial premise though, we should be very careful and spend a lot of time considering the environmental impact. It's also very easy to say that as a well-off westerner with abundant access to food, though ;)

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> I happy that they're not only working on taste, but also try to add all the healthy nutrients to the product.

</comment><comment><USER19> If only SV could first get a few decent restaurants they might not feel the need to invent industrial chemical food.</comment>


Ask HN: What is your preferred work music? - <AUTHOR>

What music / ambiance sounds , if any, you listen while working? <comment><USER2> [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ho6HRBPOgM0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ho6HRBPOgM0) Matrix OST when I'm really hot And... Chopin/Bach when I need to focus

</comment><comment><USER3> Silence. I feel peaceful with silence. Not sensory deprivation silence. For example, I don't like what a house sounds like when you turn off all utilities. Just random, ambient sound.</comment>


Ask HN: My free iPhone app gets 1k downloads per day. What should I do next? - <AUTHOR>

I have a free iPhone app (let's call it App 1) that has been getting 1k downloads per day for the last 7 days. These are organic downloads, that is to say that people just find the app by themselves, I do not pay for clicks from ads.
This is pure luck, and I'd like to use this chance before it vanishes to start an "app network" (or whatever you call it), that is to say a ring of 10-15 apps that support one another with in-app marketing (I have read this and found it very inspiring: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2710240)
So I need advice as to what to do next. My main idea is to create two very simple 2d puzzle games (App 2 and App 3) within the next 10-15 days, make them free, and put a link to them in an alert box when the user opens App 1. Then, in App 2, I will link to App 3, and in App 3 I will link to App 2. If I get enough downloads for App 2 and App 3, that can start a chain reaction and I can make more apps, App 4 to App N (with N <= 15), which would be apps of higher quality. At the same time, I would run one press release per week for 4 to 6 weeks, and pay for clicks with AdMod or iAd to attract more people and try to get more downloads (I was thinking of $50 per week).
So here are my question:
1. Are 1k daily downloads worldwide (with more than half in the Russian store) enough to get traction to launch other apps, or would I be wasting my time trying?
2. If 1k is enough, does the plan I exposed above make sense or should I do something else instead? <comment><USER2> First off this isn't luck and it's going to be harmful to view it as such. You made something people want so be proud.

BUT, as of now it seems your working and possibly letting people use your servers with no compensation. If your getting 1k downloads/day then slapping a $.99 price tag is going to make you much more than $50/week. I cannot emphasize enough don't use an ad based revenue model. Charging a price and dropping ads will more than double the income you would potentially get from using ads to generate income.

The alternative is use this app as marketing and start charging for other apps down the line. Free app generates exposure for paid app.

From one dev. to another think bigger, you can be making good money if you just start charging a price. People will pay!

<comment><USER3> Good advice. I will add that, from the perspective of an app buyer, I almost will never pay for an app that has no freebie version. 99 cents isn't a lot of money but it's my money and I don't buy things unless I truly want it. This even goes for recommendations from friends - if the app doesn't have a trial/free version, I'm almost never buying it just to see if I like it. I haven't found screenshots alone do it for me.

Make a free + paid version!

<comment><USER4> My vote is to go with a free version only, but have in-app purchases. You'll keep it easy to download and try and if they like the first 10 puzzles, they're more likely to pay the 99 cents or whatever for the next 30 puzzles.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Another strategy you could try is to figure out why people like your App 1 (game?). You'd have to build in some sort of stat collection. Then you can try to replicate that in your later apps.

For example, if you look at games published by Donut games they all have the same basic structure. A bunch of puzzle levels on a 3 star rating system, and you have points assigned to you as you finish the level in the optimal fashion. The game itself is different every time but most of the time you're picking up a point object as you traverse the level, or you're traversing something in the shortest path. Whatever it is about these games, my girlfriend has downloaded almost all of them. You could try to go for the same effect.

</comment><comment><USER6> Well, I'm not in the iPhone app store, but I've done mobile development before...

My advice would be to not rush to release a new app every 10-15 days, just because you have 1000 downloads a day. Instead, focus on making your next app good enough to be worthy of receiving 1,500 downloads a day, and then 2,000, etc.

Increase your install base over time with good apps.

Yeah, you can release a bunch of fast puzzle games to promote apps 4+, OR, you can just try and make better apps/games from the start.

I dunno, that's what I'm thinking. I this helps some how.

<comment><AUTHOR> My point about releasing a new app asap is that I am afraid the downloads for my current app will not last long, and I wanted to act fast based upon that. I'll wait a few more days to see if the downloads are holding. And you're right, pushing low quality apps will certainly not help.

Thanks for your time and for the advice :)

<comment><USER6> No problem. :)

I see what you're saying; but for your first few titles, I'd probably recommend just focusing on creating something that people will want to download and use/play later in the first place.

Also remember that once it's downloaded, they'll hopefully use/play it multiple times. So, maybe you should just update this app in 10-15 days, to get more installs, and then release a higher quality app in a month or so, instead of in two weeks.

I don't think it's about how many people are downloading your app today, it's more about how many people will use your other app(s) during the day/week of your new release.

Just be sure to be focusing on the right thing.

That's my opinion anyway. :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment> mike-cardwell Isn't this sort of cross promotion of apps something that Lodsys was targetting? I haven't heared anything about Lodsys in a while so I could be out of date...</comment>


Failing to become an internet celebrity in China - <AUTHOR> https://www.techinasia.com/talk/failed-chinese-internet-celebrity <comment><USER2> "Sir, it is very clear to me that you are not Chinese."

This doesn't sound credible. There's no way you can pretend to be a Chinese national just by faking a Beijing accent. The customer service agent would have access to your account details, which include which type of ID you used for real-name verification. If you used a passport instead of a Chinese ID card, you're a foreigner.

Pleasant article, though.

</comment><comment><USER3> Some awkward yuppie guy gets friend-zoned by his Chinese kinda-internet- celebrity crush and exaggerates what he did to keep the platonic relationship going.

<comment><USER4> Yeah, his Facebook page has some pretty cringeworthy content.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> "The crackdown resulted in Sina Weibo changing their live broadcasting policies to make it impossible for foreigners to broadcast."

It's hard to believe nonsense like this still exists in the world.

<comment><USER6> Many activities in China require you to present your Chinese ID number and/or your ID card. It isn't meant to exclude foreigners specifically, it is usually just an oversight where much of Chinese officialdom can't fathom that there are even foreigners resident in China.

<comment><USER7> There's no reason it can't do both. Keeping foreigners out is four-fifths of the reason why China has banned foreign social networks in the first place.

<comment><USER6> Sure, but in this case, it is just like not being able to use the e-kiosks at the train station to print your ticket. Chinese simply don't care about foreigners, they aren't threatened by them.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Then why not just use youtube/facebook ? I'm pretty sure the population of people in china who can subvert the blocking to access youtube + chinese people outside china is still a lot.

</comment><comment><USER9> Summary: guy tried to team up with his Chinese internet celebrity friend to also become an internet celebrity in China, but the Chinese gov ended up blocking him because he was foreign. It was a very long article for that point to be made, and some of it sounded not plausible.</comment>


Ask HN: What do you wish bitcoin facilitated, but doesn't currently? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> (1) Security for end consumer. Might seem weird that I highlight this first and foremost, but I think that security from a tech savvy standpoint is the inverse of that from a consumer standpoint. What? My Bitcoins just disappear? Someone can hack my computer and all my money is gone forever?

(2) Usability. Classic problem from Linux standpoint, hard to take something w/ current design to something that is both incredibly usable and secure for grandma to use.

(3) Stable long term demand. Right now we don't have that. If there is major adoption of Bitcoin (including merchants actually holding Bitcoin) in the developing world we may see that (watch Kenya this year, for example).

(4) Programability. This is what Ethereum (and, to a lesser extent, Mastercoin) are working on.

(5) Less transparency. Actually I don't want people to know how much money I have and what I spend it on.

(6) Price stability. I don't know how you get here with Bitcoin.

(7) Instant clearing time.

(8) Zero fees. I guess this exists in some alt coins (i.e. Doge) because there's a presumed lack of possibility of a double spend.

</comment><comment><USER3> I wish there was a service similar to Square Cash where I could send arbitrary amounts of money around the world without dealing with bank transfers / Western Union / etc. It would basically have to transparently convert from whatever currency you give it to bitcoin, send the bitcoin to an address, then convert it to the receiver's currency and deposit it in their bank.

The legal and regulatory hurdles involved in this make it a non-trivial business to set up, but I think it plays on a great strength of bitcoin.

</comment><comment><USER4> A "fair" distribution of bitcoins.

I understand what you are asking, but the expected distribution patterns of bitcoins is unlikely to meet any definition of fair according to the majority of people currently using any other currency, and its never going to get there.

My basic problem with cryptocurrency is that they seem to think money is created through work, whereas it seems its created through debt. But then I have not read around the subject enough

<comment><USER5> Given that in the USA 98% of the worth is owned by 1% of the people, I'm not sure what you are thinking of when you talk about "fair".

In bitcoin we long passed the point where money is created. The only way to own bitcoins now is to get them from others by giving them something else in return. Dollars, or a painting etc.

I'm not sure what you mean with "money is created through debt".

<comment><USER4> But not 98% of the currency. Maybe thats the part I dont understand.

And 98% of wealth is owned by 1%? Globally maybe but in the US? Home ownership is very widespread - something like 80m homes, with trillions of asset value.

<comment><USER6> > Home ownership is very widespread - something like 80m homes, with trillions > of asset value.

Yes, and so are home mortgages, with trillions of dollars of mortgage liabilities...

You can't assess the distribution of wealth by looking at asseta without looking at liabilities. That's even more true of looking at one _single_ class of asset, that commonly is tied to a liability of a significant share of its value, when not looking even at that tied liability.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> The big thing I want to be able to do is be able to pay my bills in Bitcoin (rent, credit cards, student and car loans). If I can do that without (personally) having to convert to fiat and pay them in fiat, I'll be quite happy, and would probably try to find a job that would pay in bitcoin at that point. So, someone figure out a service to facilitate that, please :)</comment>


Warm Takes on Microsoft's Surface Pro 4 - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@searls/warm-takes-on-microsofts-surface-pro-4-580f77634d2c <comment><USER2> Better title: Things I Don't Like About The Surface Pro 4. There's literally nothing positive in this article - if you think that MacOS/iPad is the gold standard for how OS's and tablets should be than you've lost all objectivity. I've been a long time Windows user who now uses a Macbook at work and I can make a list just as long and derisive.</comment>


Xkcd: Google Announcement - <AUTHOR> https://xkcd.com/1361/ <comment><USER2> The date of that comic is 2014-4-28.

Go here:

[https://xkcd.com/archive/](https://xkcd.com/archive/)

find "Google Announcement" and the hover text is the date it was put online.

See:

[http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?t=122505](http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?t=122505)

</comment><comment><USER3> I don't get it

<comment><USER4> It's an old comic and now they actually are shutting down Google+ under circumstances where folks are feeling like you can't trust them, they could shut down anything. They recently discontinued some email app too. People are feeling burned.

The comic is from a while ago and now looks prescient. It is 1361. The latest is 2056.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18169243](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18169243)

<comment><USER5> > Some email app

Do note that google inbox got presented as the next version of gmail. Personally I had expected gmail to get axed, not inbox.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> It's amazing how well xkcd is able to predict the future.

<comment><USER7> It's easy when you throw out a lot of "predictions". This is how the Simpsons do it as well.</comment></comment>


Peering Through the WebRTC Fog with SocketPeer - <AUTHOR> https://hacks.mozilla.org/2015/04/peering-through-the-webrtc-fog-with-socketpeer/

<comment><USER2> Thanks, potch! Currently using third party services such as PeerJS for signalling but want to roll my own solution. SocketPeer is a great reference point. Bookmark'd ;)</comment>


The Steam Universe is Expanding in 2014 - <AUTHOR> http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/

<comment><USER2> Flagged on the grounds that there is currently no content to speak of here.

</comment><comment><USER3> I just might have to buy the steambox</comment>


So much for Google's Privacy Settings - <AUTHOR> http://blog.jgc.org/2012/02/so-much-for-googles-privacy-settings.html

<comment><USER2> Google Search seems to keep things in its index conservatively, hoping that 404 and other errors are transient.

I'm guessing the Google+ profile didn't appear in "featured links" (don't know the proper name for the special links at the top) anymore, only in the organic search results.

plus.google.com is probably crawled just like the rest of the Web by Google Search (as it should be), and there is no special treatment for it, so having an outdated result in page 3 for a few weeks after the profile has been changed is likely standard behavior.

The post confirms this since the search result snippet image gives more info that was available when clicking through to the private profile.

</comment><comment><USER3> Author didn't specify how long he waited. I'm guessing not long at all. It would be reasonable to give Google time to update it's index.

<comment><USER4> There was a week between the deletion of my Google+ account and changing my profile to not visible in search and the date of this posting. Seems like enough time for Google to update an index of their own pages especially since they are capable of updating the index of my web site multiple times per day.

<comment><USER3> The original complaint doesn't have any evidence I can see, the cached version is unavailable, the preview is unavailable and the actual link itself 404's.

To actually delist a page from Google can take a little longer than a week, we renamed one of our pages recently without 301 redirecting and it took a pretty long time for it to be removed from search.

<comment><USER5> If you look at Google's cached result, the page is blank but if you view source the profile's all there.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I just searched for "John Graham-Cumming" and the G+ profile doesn't show up.

First page of results:

jgc.org

blog.jgc.org

blog.jgc.org/2012/01/gaga-2.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Graham-Cumming

twitter.com/jgrahamc

www.guardian.co.uk/profile/john-graham-cumming

radar.oreilly.com/jgc/

www.geekatlas.com/profile/JohnGrahamCumming

www.crunchbase.com › People

[https://theturingcentenary.wordpress.com/.../john-graham- cum...](https://theturingcentenary.wordpress.com/.../john-graham-cumming)

<comment><USER7> That would be because he mentions deleting it:

       It looks like telling Google to not show my profile in search results was useless, the only option was to *totally delete it which I have now done*.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> It shows up as a normal Google result. Did anyone measure the delays for getting delisted from the "search plus your world" results?

</comment><comment><USER9> You probably need to wait until they update the index.</comment>


Show HN: Recover abandoning visitors with exit offers - <AUTHOR> http://www.picreel.com/

<comment><USER2> "Hundreds satisfied customers"

"AVALIABLE ONLY 30 MIN"

"Capture abandoners' before they leave"

Barely a minute on the page and I've already spotted these mistakes. Doesn't really inspire confidence.

</comment><comment><USER3> I notice a lot of negative sentiment here re: exit popups. Firstly, let me say that I (as a user) am not a fan. I think it's necessary, however, to consider the context.

If you have a blog, and you'd like to start converting your readers into email subscribers, exit popups are not usually a great way to do that. They tend to turn off a more sophisticated audience, even so far as to discredit the offer based on their use of such "dark patterns". This is (usually) not where you want to use an exit popup.

If you have a landing page, however, an exit popup can do good things for you. In my experience, most landing page conversions happen on the first visit - either you convert the visitor, or you don't. In this case, you're not very concerned with credibility by the time a visitor expresses exit intent (they're already leaving). It's (usually) a good idea to go ahead and go for a lesser conversion (e.g. an email signup instead of a purchase). The worst that can happen is the user leaves and never returns (which was probably already the case).

Hopefully this puts things in perspective. Like I said, I really, _really_ don't like exit popups. I kinda feel like taking a shower after putting one on a page - however, I've run several experiments on landing pages in various verticals and (in my findings) they increase sales. It's fine to be critical of the technique and express your dislike, but if you have any fiscal responsibility to yourself or a client, it's your job to consider whether they might be beneficial, regardless of your personal feelings.

</comment><comment> nezza-_- Tried to click "How it works"... This happened. [http://i.imgur.com/efvbTCs.png](http://i.imgur.com/efvbTCs.png)

No thank you.

</comment><comment><USER4> Of all the dark patterns on the web, this is possibly the most bullshit and annoying one of all. The one time I've been hit by something like this, it was a false positive (I was switching browsers to use lastpass for paypal), and it annoyed me enough to change my mind about buying.

<comment><USER5> Read [http://darkpatterns.org/](http://darkpatterns.org/)

I'm not even sure if I'd call exit intent pop-ins a "dark pattern", let alone call it the most bullshit and annoying one, considering the examples listed on the darkpatterns.org site.

I think I'd argue the "sneak into shopping cart" one as being the worst.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> I don't wish to degrade any new start-up, it's hard to make it out there but this one wasn't thought out or researched. People hate pop-ups. Really really hate pop-ups. Making an entire service based on the principle of serving pop- ups, for lack of a better word in my vocabulary, is idiotic. If you go around any given room and ask people, "When you are browsing a website do you like getting pop-ups? Say it's for a special offer for a whole 10% off! How about then?" I'm pretty sure the answer is going to be no and no.

Just for me personally if I get a pop-up on a website I'm more likely to go somewhere else, like to Amazon, where they don't give me pop-ups and already have my account information.

</comment><comment><USER7> What does exit intent technology do?

Does this block the user from leaving all the time or is there some pattern recognition going on?

Why aren't picreel using the service on their website? I can't click on any of the clients in the case studies to see what the product is actually like.

<comment><USER8> They are using it on the site, and it doesn't block users from leaving, it just throws up on of those overlay screens if the mouse tracking script thinks you're about to leave. For me, it showed up when my mouse moved up to the top of the screen and hovered over the URL bar (correct behaviour). But if it also shows up when people are trying to click on an _internal_ link, which apparently happened to another HN user, that's unlikely to be good for conversions. At this sort of price there probably should be a good degree of flexibility in customising what ads get shown when people appear to be leaving based on the entry route, pages visited and time on site. But probably no way of filtering out the people likely to be really irritated, or the people who would have returned to the site and bought at full price...

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> If there's one thing more annoying than a popup when you enter a site, it's a popup when you try to leave. It's one of the things likely to make me never return to a site.

<comment><USER10> This a thousand times. I'll blacklist a domain for that. I'll kill by browser if I can't close it. I'll never, ever be coerced into even reading a fucking popup on leaving a site, as a matter of moral principle. Its like a salesman sticking their foot in the door - I have a gun for that situation.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I've no doubt this methodology can be effective but it's supremely irritating. Any company that uses methods like this immediately put me off.

</comment><comment><USER12> I'd be interested to see how this does. I'd imagine MAYBE a 1-5% conversion and 95-99% of your potential customers leaving very annoyed.

<comment><USER5> The idea behind conversion optimization is to convert more of the Maybe's in to Yes's. Alienating the No's shouldn't be too much of a concern as long as you aren't turning your Yes's in to No's.

It's still a balancing act between improving conversions and not annoying people, but I've never seen an appropriate, well-implemented pop-in like this NOT increase conversions.

<comment><USER12> Good point. The service doesn't seem like it would do well with established eCommerce sites where the probability of potential customers returning at a later date is high. This is definitely more of a last ditch effort for smaller sites.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> So... Pop-ups as a service. No thanks.

<comment><USER5> A lot of people on HN seem to be adverse to using these modal pop-ins. I'm curious to find out why people here hate them so much.

In practice, they can be very effective, almost shockingly effective, at increasing conversions. I know they can seem intrusive, but most commentary I see on them comes from a critical perspective, where the critic has zero intention of being a customer. I suspect the pop-ins may not be such a horrible experience for people who actually are prospective customers.

<comment><USER14> Imagine this scenario: I'm at a store, looking around, then realized I left my wallet in the car. So I start to exit the store, when suddenly an employee stops me. He may even have a special sales flyer -- but I can't get past him unless I tap him on the shoulder so that he steps aside.

At this point, instead of going to get my wallet, I will get in the car and find another store. It is the same type of irritation that I feel when, after making a purchase, a store employee stops me at the door to check my receipt and compare with the contents of the bag. I've already stood in line for 20 minutes, forked over money, and now they are holding me up for another minute? No thanks.

<comment><USER15> I think leaving a store because you forgot your wallet is an edge case that only an extremely small percentage of bounces would relate to. I agree pop-ups are annoying, but I think its important to remember that HN users aren't necessarily the customers every business out there is targeting.</comment></comment></comment></comment>