Americans' Access to Strong Encryption Is at Risk, an Open Letter to Congress - <AUTHOR> https://rietta.com/blog/2017/05/03/americans-access-to-strong-encryption-is-at-risk/ <comment><USER2> The irony here is that simple one-time-pad solutions (OTP) will continue to be available to securely encrypt the sort of messaging that's of use to terrorists (relatively short infrequent messages), instead it's the general communications (including for banking) that the rest of us perform online that will be made vulnerable.

You don't even have to program or use a computer to create these OTP solutions, for limited messages you could just flip a coin to create the OTP if necessary (although there are lots of more automated solutions available as well.)

Airgapped computers at both ends provide another way 'round restrictions for more sophisticated actors. Their backdoors won't be accessible (remotely.)

So taking away secure encryption from the rest of us is just security theatre; a destructive, narcissistic legislative exercise designed to make it look like the pompous powerful doing something when they're doing nothing of any real use while creating terrible risks.

This is why, I think, legislators have consistently ignoring logic and math from professionals such as the OP - they don't care. They know perfectly well they're pissing into the wind doing nothing useful; that it's all theatre; they just think the fallout is going to land on someone else's pants after they're out of office. But tech works (and fails) faster than that.

[Counterargument: if everything else is breakable, securely encrypted messages really stand out. One answer: But very short messages (in an unknown format) aren't generally breakable, anyway, and that's the likely case.]

<comment><AUTHOR> One time pads are perfect! Everything less than that trades security for convenience. So true.

<comment><USER3> Of course, that perfection is achieved by shifting all your risk to key distribution.

I think of OTPs as a form of time-shifting. Think of it this way: if you and your correspondent have viable OTPs, that implies that, at some point in the past, you securely communicated that OTP. Since it is (at least) the length of a future message, you could have just passed a secure message then. Instead, you passed something that enables passing a secure message now.

<comment><USER4> Imagine implementing your amazing solution in real life.

I don't see a situation being frequent where you'd know the message weeks or months in advance of when you send it. If we follow your scheme, there's no encryption; we just meet up when we need to communicate. What if we're on opposite sides of the earth? If we had exchanged keys months earlier, this wouldn't be a problem.

<comment><USER3> I must have explained poorly. I was not proposing "just communicate securely in advance". I was highlighting the problem with OTPs.

The fact that your key material is the same size as the message means all your security is in the key, thus in your key distribution method. Among other problems, this means no rekeying without replicating your original hand-off - you can communicate exactly as many bits as your previously securely exchanged, no more.

<comment><USER4> > means all of your security is in the key

...erm, isn't that the point?

<comment><USER3> Speaking of points, I can't tell if you're intentionally missing mine, but either way this is unproductive. If you're sincerely confused, please read up a bit. The Wikipedia page isn't a terrible place to start.

<comment><USER4> No I mean I understand where OTP falls short, but you're either really bad at conveying your viewpoint, or you're simply plain wrong.

Yes, with OTP you need to exchange keys and this shifts all of the security to key exchange, and while this wouldn't be a problem in other ciphers, it's a problem in OTP because of its other properties and shortfalls.

So at most I feel as though it's a security/convenience tradeoff; a tradeoff that's substantial or even dangerous in certain situations.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Just think of the outrage if the government required master keys to everyone's homes? I know there is a difference, but it's not a huge leap to compare the two. We don't want the government to have such easy access to our homes because we can't trust every government employee not to abuse it. I think the same goes here. No mater what safe guards you put in place it's a scary thought that you simply can't keep the government out of your affair's. Sure now you think you have nothing to hide. But what if your political views become criminal, what if your religious views become hate speech? We're not there yet but times can change quickly.

<comment><USER6> Disclaimer: I agree with you but I always struggle to convince people that this line of reasoning makes sense.

The government can already enter anybody's home upon receiving a warrant to do so. If you don't let them in, they can bust through a door or tear down a wall. We trust the government not to do this without court oversight. We trust courts to provide good and honest oversight. It is far from a perfect system, but we set up lots of human-level checks and balances to keep power distributed enough that this basically works.

The problem with strong encryption is that this is impossible. Even if there is a very good reason signed off by an honest court, it is impossible to get in. This breaks that human-level checks-and-balances system. What replaces it?

<comment><USER5> Personally I think you can make it a crime not to produce a key if a warrant has been issued to search what ever you've encrypted.

That is a lot more out in the open than a "back door". When the government bashes through the door at least it's in plain site and the house owner knows it's happening. But with encryption how would you know if the government has used their access?

<comment><USER7> >Personally I think you can make it a crime not to produce a key if a warrant has been issued to search what ever you've encrypted.

Personally, I find that suggestion repugnant.

<comment><USER5> How is this different to getting a warrant to search say a safe deposit box at a bank? Is there something about encrypted data that should be beyond the reach of the law?

<comment><USER8> I already have so many different accounts on various websites that I regularly forget a password, the same can happen with an encryption key. Should that be a crime?

<comment><USER9> We already require corporations to preserve all their email, voice, and other electronic communications in case the government wants to investigate it. Maybe you're irresponsible for losing your key, and need to be held accountable.

We also require people to document their finances to accurately tax them. You're presumed 'guilty until proven innocent' in the sense that you're taxed on income unless you can document that it's untaxable(a business expense). There are penalties for failing to document things. What's wrong with requiring you to document your private keys, along with your receipts?

If you sell apples under the name "Loving Apples", you have to pay your state government to register that name. You can be fined for not registering your name, and your bank or other financial provider will want to see the government approval document. You could have the government maintain a central registry of all private keys, and make it a crime to encrypt a document with a key not documented in a state agency.

If you receive a document that is encrypted, you may be further required to tell the government who gave it to you, to ensure compliance with the encryption law; similar to how giving someone money requires you to tell the government about the transaction for compliance with tax law.

<comment><USER8> Wouldn't the same reasoning apply to all communication? Do you keep transcripts and/or recordings of all private conversations you have (in meatspace) so that you can hand those to the government when they show up with a warrant? Would you like to live in a society where not keeping such records is a crime? If not, why should communication "on a computer" be held to a different standard?

<comment><USER9> "One man's modus ponens is another man's modus tollens"

Which direction of the implication you take is a matter of preference. People who agree with giving the government full power(and trust them not to abuse it) or who agree with not giving the government any of this power are both logically consistent with my argument.

I'm only attempting to rule out people who are okay with all of the existing documentation requirements, but balk at documenting their encryption keys.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Does anyone here remember the clipper chip? If you don't, I'd recommend boning up on this chapter of the crypto wars.

The 'because terrorism' excuse falls a bit flat with me.

Thought experiment: how hard would it be for a terrorist organization with access to 100's of millions of dollars (eg. ISIS) to come up with a secure communications scheme? One time pad. A reasonable cipher that hasn't had any 'help' during development. Even run an encrypted channel over a backdoored product. I'm sure many of us could come up with something in a day (with decryption over an airgap). How about a hostile government with multi-billion dollar budgets (and who have been using OTP already for decades).

Is this about terrorists, or is this about citizens? My bet is on the latter.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_chip](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_chip) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_Wars](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_Wars)

<comment><USER11> The Clintons and Al Gore have their paws all over the Clipper Chip.

<comment><USER12> It's a grave mistake to demonize a single politician you dislike: if it were that simple, they'd have dropped it as soon as that one person left office. In reality, there's a large community pushing for things which they perceive as making their job easier and that persists across administrations — that started well before Clinton ran for office and certainly didn't end after he left.

<comment><USER11> You are putting words in my mouth. I demonize no one.

My feelings about them (The Clintons) have indeed declined over the years. I _mostly_ have huge respect for Al Gore. But my personal feelings have absolutely nothing do to with their material involvement with the Clipper Chip. Nor do I care when it started. They all carried the baton of government key escrow which is not something I am going to forget. It is a grave mistake to not hold people accountable for their actions, to not take a stand while the bureaucracy pushes you along with the current.

<comment><USER12> "paws" isn't a neutral term – it has strong negative connotations.

My point was simply that while, yes, Bill Clinton ultimately owns his official actions, it's naive to ignore the massive weight of the entire U.S. intelligence apparatus, especially coming off of the Cold War footing, on a subject where he was hearing from a lot of experts in government and business saying this was a good move.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> I'm going to have to go back to listen to the entirety of the Senate hearing at some point. With so much talk about Russia hacking and influence and then they flip the switch and want backdoors into encryption even though any mandated tool the government demands for so called lawful intercept can be hacked by or ordered by the judges in Russia! There is a strange disconnect and I think it hurts us that the public discourse is security vs privacy rather than being about the personal security off all citizens.

</comment><comment><USER4> I did my Extended Project Qualification (EPQ) [1] on this issue, and it actually surprised me how many people think that the governments are right in this debate.

When presenting the work, I had a chance to ask ordinary people, and they all pretty much agreed that the government should be able to "break" encryption with a warrant.

This is a scary prospect, and I feel that educating citizens as well as the government is important.

[1] [https://github.com/libeclipse/EPQ/blob/master/paper.pdf](https://github.com/libeclipse/EPQ/blob/master/paper.pdf)

<comment><USER13> They're right, they just don't understand it doesn't really work like that.

In theory, being able to break encryption with a warrant is exactly the right scenario.

In practice, if you an break it with a warrant, someone else can break it without a warrant and can do so without your knowledge.

<comment><USER4> You're absolutely right. Encryption is either strong for everyone all of the time, or it isn't.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Access is under no risk whatsoever. Encryption is math. It is open source. It will always be there. What is at risk is the legal right to use it, the government's permission for the public to use that math. My point: people with good reason to fear the government will still access and use encryption. This therefore isn't about terrorists. It is about watching the everyday people who want to abide by the law.

</comment><comment><USER3> The Four Horseman of the Infocalypse[1] ride again!

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalyp...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalypse)

</comment><comment><USER15> The greatest problem right now is our hardware, not our software. We can always devise secure encryption schemes without backdoors. Nobody can do anything against it.

Our hardware on the other hand... is probably backdoored already.

</comment><comment><USER16> It isn't just our privacy at issue. With more and more critical infrastructure on the internet, having unbreakable encryption is a major national economic and national security requirement.

It's unrealistic to think that if there is a means for access by the government, that foreign enemies and criminal organizations won't be able to access it, too, and cause havoc.

<comment><AUTHOR> Very, very true!

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> As if they'd give a shit.

Right now they want to un-insure 24mil people, re-introduce the whole pre- existing condition scam.

you really think a ruling class that has no qualms being "pro-life" while denying young mothers healthcare will care about your nerd bullshit?

</comment><comment><USER18> This is not a battle they can win. Most American's DGAF if their shit is encrypted, until the PSA campaign fighting against laws like these tells them the government is taking away their rights and able to snoop on their lives. Just like SOPA and others this will be defeated.

<comment><USER19> I would not be so sure of that. I really believe the President's guiding principle is to do whatever it is that will enrage liberals the most. If Republicans see that liberals want strong encryption, they might decide to oppose it just to piss off liberals. It's amazing to me that a lot of the same people advocating gun rights are also the ones that support government mandated encryption backdoors.

<comment><USER20> Eh.. it's messy isn't it. Politically motivated libertarians strongly support both 2nd amendment and oppose back doors. Generally speaking, the govt is always seen as the biggest threat to guard against.

Probabaly the ones supportive of backdoors are as you said, simply "trusting" of the current leader they voted for but would immediately oppose the same policy coming from a Democrat.

...which is the exact impulse and logic that should push all partisans to distrust government power to snoop on communications. There will always be someone in charge somewhere that you don't trust.

<comment><USER21> As a libertarian socialist, I continually struggle to get US progressives to understand this argument.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> For congressional consumption, I suspect arguments like this need to be dumbed way, way, down.

Tim Cook's "software equivalent of cancer" is an example of an effective dumbed down take on it, but it need not be the last one. The more ways the point can be re-worded concisely so that lay people will understand it, the better.

</comment><comment><USER23> Some just never learn. How many times will they bring up this "let's make a backdoor but we don't really want a backdoor" stupidity?

</comment><comment><USER24> Encryption will never be intentionally backdoored on a large scale.

I think one of RSA argued this, basically "Do you really think the government will want to review and approve everything on the app store?"

Forcing big players to divulge data, making accused people decrypt their devices -- those are things the government could do. Encryption per se isn't in any danger.

<comment><USER25> I don't think it is the encryption protocols at risk really. Secure protocols exist now, they will continue to exist. It is the future hardware implementations and closed source software implementations that we will no longer be able to trust.

<comment><USER26> Are we currently able to trust hardware and closed source software implementations?

<comment><USER27> That's a negative, Ghost Rider

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> I read that Sen. Diane Feinsetin is supporting an anti-encryption bill. It's never been completely clear to me if she, and those like her, fall more on the stupid side, or more on the evil side.

But the arguments against this aren't that difficult... so I have to guess it's the evil. Power corrupts.

</comment><comment><USER29> The US Department of Defense arguably runs the most extensive key escrow system in the world. Every DoD employee and many contractors have Common Access Cards (CAC) that contain email encryption keys that are escrowed with DISA.

<comment><USER11> God I love Starship Troopers. Heinlein was a true patriot.

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> A better example of work that Congress might be interested in would be Schneier and Kerr's writeup on encryption workarounds showing government tools they have available with legal considerations of current or expanded ones. That's the kind of practical stuff that can influence powerful people's opinion as they're always looking at grey areas to balance many conflicting interests.

[https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2017/03/new_paper_on_...](https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2017/03/new_paper_on_en.html)

</comment><comment><USER31> Bernstein v. United States

</comment><comment><USER32> > ... "protected being being stolen."

repetition error.

<comment><AUTHOR> Deploying an update to remove the duplicate word now. Thank you.

<comment><USER33> Also,

> The cybersecurity threats that face our nation are very important to my wife > and I.

"to my wife and me"

<comment><USER34> "my wife and I" is fine.

[https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/usage/i-or- me](https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/usage/i-or-me)

<comment><USER33> Um, what? You have linked to an explanation of why it's not fine. This mistake is getting more and more common, even among educated people. It's quite embarrassing/funny because it stems from a belief that "I" is inherently more "educated", and the result sounds anything but. I know us English speakers can't speak any non-English languages, in contrast to the rest of the educated world, but it's really not too much to ask for us to be able to comprehend the concept of subject of a sentence. Our parents' and grandparents' generations managed it fine, in fact would have been mortified to make a mistake like this.

<comment><USER35> This is actually one of my fury triggers whenever the spouse is watching trashy reality shows on television.

I recall from my early public education that my peers and I were all taught incorrectly. They told me and my classmates to use "I" rather than "me" in all compound nouns, rather than to use the correct pronoun. This is burned in my memory. It happened. Don't try to gaslight it. At least one teacher taught every last one of their students the wrong grammar.

For instance, this would be correct. "She and I [1] went to the theater, and the ticket-agent told her and me [2] that matinee prices ended at 4 PM." Countless fools would put "her and I" in position [2], sparking a righteous, impotent rage in my soul.

Also, it's "I know _we_ English speakers can't speak...". Try taking out the descriptive. "I know us can't speak..." versus "I know we can't speak..." Select the correct pronoun, then put the descriptor back in.

<comment><USER33> Haha fair enough! And thanks for pointing out that it's actually been propagated by school teachers sometimes. I definitely deserve to be corrected publicly on the "us English speakers" thing. I could try to defend myself on the basis that I was deliberately affecting a more popular mode of speaking at that point, at the expense of correctness, but the truth is I've never said or written "we X doers". I'll bear it in mind for the future!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> As a sovereign I demand my privacy!

</comment><comment><USER37> Good sentiment, and better cause...

but _please, for the love of god, proofread your writing!_

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you.

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> Wait does he have a Masters in Information Security from the College of Computing at the Georgia Institute of Technology???!

Joking aside, unfortunately it takes deep problems to motivate people/the US to change. It'll swing this way, and there will be dramatic consequences. Only then will things swing back the other way.

It's too bad there isn't any balance here -- it does make sense in many situations that the police/courts should be able to gain access to information. But encryption doesn't care about the situation. Encryption doesn't care who you are. Encryption has no contextual morales of its own.

If data had physical weight, where things that were important we're really hard to steal, then it'd function like the real world. But data does not, and it's too easy to download gigs of data one should never have access to. It's very difficult to gain a middle ground as suggested by Pelosi. I don't know if she understands that.

<comment><USER39> It looks like you forgot to pay your Squarespace bill: "This account has expired. ( [http://empiric.al](http://empiric.al) )"

Joking aside, I guess you're saying that leading with credentials in an article is unnecessary if that article is relatively short and you've got a bio blurb at the bottom of the page?

<comment><AUTHOR> That's actually a good point. I originally wrote this as a private message to each of the Congressional candidates in the Georgia 6th district and in that format there was not the bio and all the surrounding blog template. It feels weird to be to lead with it too, but I'm trying to answer real quick to a politician who does not know the science why he or she should read on to the next paragraph.

<comment><USER39> I think you're discovering that text written for one medium might benefit from revision when published elsewhere. :-)

Also, I think it's reasonable these days to write hardcopy letters that look more like websites -- multiple columns, a bio section, etc. Don't restrict yourself to obsolete and arbitrary etiquette.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask PG: How did you make Hacker News so much faster? - <AUTHOR>

This is so awesome.  Everything is loading immediately now. <comment><USER2> HN is on CloudFlare now.

</comment><comment><USER3> I'm seeing a range from snappy to several seconds (favoring snappy), so I'm going to guess "better caching."

Taking several seconds to load was common enough before that I would load the index & queue up all the articles I was interested in at once in new tabs, then grab my coffee. I may be able to just browse now, if this keeps up.

</comment><comment><USER4> The JS is the largest delayer in here. Marked me 10s. But the page was loaded in 703ms. Sometimes, more. This can be even speed it up a lot by taking out the extra HTML/CSS used. By the quantity of CSS this site uses, better to include it in header than having it linked.

<comment><USER5> Um... There is no js. If you're seeing any that's not inlined, an extension or something else is adding it.

<comment><USER4> Aye! it was my safari extensions.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I see same speed increase, it looks like they upgraded servers after due to previous DDoS attacks

</comment><comment><USER7> I would guess it's something on your end. I'm not seeing any speed increases; it was already incredibly fast for me.

<comment><AUTHOR> I've been using HN for many years and pages usually take more than a second or two to load, sometimes several. How long have you been using HN? Have we been using the same site and experiencing different load times?

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Being text-only helps immensely.</comment>


The PC BIOS is Insecure As Hell. WHY? - <AUTHOR> http://www.rootwyrm.com/2013/11/the-pc-bios-is-insecure-as-hell-why/

<comment><AUTHOR> Since his comments seem to be broken (or he just does not accept any) i will comment here:

I believe it is very well possible (using the UEFI IP stack) to write a tiny and portable BIOS malware that loads hardware and OS probing code, filesystem drivers and OS specific payload from a c&c server.

Also i suspect that the checksums might be breakable, but i don't know which algorithms are used to calculate them.</comment>


Delaying Herd Immunity Is Costing Lives - <AUTHOR> https://www.aier.org/article/delaying-herd-immunity-is-costing-lives/ <comment><USER2> >Nursing homes should be isolated together with some of the staff until other staff who have acquired immunity can take over

Just this one sentence has a lot to unpack. How do we know that a staff member immune to COVID? My understanding is that an antibody test is correlated but not necessarily indicative of immunity. What does this mean for staff members that aren't immune? Will they be furloughed indefinitely or fired? Should there be financial incentives to deliberately infect yourself?

<comment><USER3> Also there's substantial proof COVID19 antibodies don't last forever, in some cases only a few months.

This article is riddled with questions.

<comment><USER4> No. All recent data points to long-lasting immunity. A normal, gradual decline in antibody response is coupled with longer-lasting B- and T-cell response.

[https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1285618977654407169.html](https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1285618977654407169.html)

[https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.14.20151126v...](https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.14.20151126v1)

<comment><USER3> How does that explain repeat illness (not via testing but someone that is in hospital once month and back the next?)

<comment><USER4> To date, there has been one documented case of re-infection. From everything we know, this very rare.

There are many reasons a person with a severe illness might have to return to a hospital (e.g. lung damage from ventilators), but this has no relationship to repeated infection from the same virus.

<comment><USER3> Multiple (confirmed) cases, meaning there are many more that are missed. [https://www.statnews.com/2020/08/28/covid-19-reinfection- imp...](https://www.statnews.com/2020/08/28/covid-19-reinfection- implications/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> This is the same load of horsefeathers that is on display in every popular narrative arguing for herd immunity.

The author writes: "We need to shield older people and other high-risk groups until they are protected by herd immunity." I've read this sentence almost verbatim literally dozens of times over the last few months. Those who promote this meme either offer no explanation for how this can be done, or offer a hand-wavy and anemic explanation of what is really a titanic effort on an untried scale. The oldest members of our society either live with their families or are attended by medical caretakers, who are an obvious source of infection. We can't put our elderly into Bubble Boy-style hospital wards or ship them to Old People Island. If we all go back to work and school, we can't help dramatically increasing the risk to the elderly from increased social mingling and network effects.

The author offers the wan suggestion that the institutionalized elderly could be attended by a rotating cast of medical staff who are somehow certifiably safe. "Immunity passports" have been a conservative meme since the start of the epidemic, when we had zero evidential foundation for such a belief. The body of evidence for COVID immunity remains mixed. Six months in, we are starting to see cases of apparently incontrovertible reinfection. The question whether one can be immune and yet still infectious remains open. The enthusiasm for the "immunity passport" meme among a segment of commentators really feels like a spectator's desire to see some dog-eat-dog competition in the labor force.

But all this, of course, is predicated on a third meme, which is that the effects of COVID are possible death for the very old and "water off a duck's back" for everyone else. No. A number of college athletes are currently grounded with pericarditis, a risky diagnosis with an indefinite time course. Unlike our Swiss cheese understanding of practical COVID immunity, our picture of COVID complications is becoming clearer, and it includes common incidence of dangerous internal inflammation, reduced lung function, and chronic fatigue. If we're concerned about the drag on our economy, let's consider what kind of drag a chronically ill labor force will generate. This is the scenario in third-world countries, where infectious diseases like malaria and AIDS eat into labor productivity and sap the average life expectancy.

In other words, this is a dangerous complex of memes that show up in tandem and aren't particularly affected by gathering evidence. It is externally motivated and could very well endanger each of us individually.

<comment><USER6> Regarding the so called long term effects: is there any research that tells us _how prevalent_ they are?

A lot of people mention cases like these, I'd like to see some figures, also taking into account that pulmonary problems and fatigue, for one, are common to other diseases (even treatable ones).

To be clear: I have no interest in downplaying severe effects of this infection. But I want to look at the whole picture.

<comment><USER5> Here's a two-month-old summary of a few studies from JAMA Cardiology.[1] The most-quoted result is the Puntmann, et al., which has been amended after scrutiny, but showed pretty much the same pattern of results. Googling "COVID" \+ "cardiomyopathy" offers some more leads. For example, [2].

[1] [https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/...](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2768915)

[2] [https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/88060](https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/88060)

<comment><USER6> Thanks.

Note that the JAMA editorial acknowledges the need for further studies, because the numbers are very small (compared to the known number of patients):

> We wish not to generate additional anxiety but rather to incite other > investigators to carefully examine existing and prospectively collect new > data in other populations to confirm or refute these findings.

Which is AFAICS the crux of the matter. No one knows how widespread these problems are.

<comment><USER5> Not to diminish the need for further research, but [1]. I encourage you to consider the growing number of cases of cardiomyopathy in college athletes, who are presumably in the invincible 18-21 age range and also not particularly numerous as a population.

[1] [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Further_research_is_needed](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Further_research_is_needed)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> The author missed that the whole narrative around herd immunity is based on very very weak papers. The growth dynamics of COVID-19 is following very precise mathematics. Like any seasonal virus it starts strong - and trickles down slowly.

Not doing containment while it is growing will make the situation a lot worse.

Spreading the virus deliberately to get some immunity will make the situation worse.

Using non-functional lockdowns that only slow down the descend and spread the virus more evenly also make things worse.

</comment><comment><USER8> In the USA, it is estimated that herd immunity would lead to 2.1 million deaths:

330,000,000 ÷ 100 x 65 = 214,500,000 ÷ 100 = 2,145,000

That's 330 million people, 65% exposed, and 1% death rate.

Keep in mind that 9% of people have suffered a crippling illness that lasts several months. That's 19,305,000 people with a crippling multi-month illness.

Aiming for herd immunity is pure madness.

<comment><USER9> A few key things you're leaving out.

1\. The mortality rate for children is lower than even the flu, and this is likely to do with age-related ACE2 expression. This is fact, and hopefully it leads to something that can help us lower the mortality rate in older folks, too. [1] They can of course spread it to older folks, though.

2\. Mortality rate among the young is in line with the flu.

3\. Mortality rate in older folks is terrible, and needs to be managed, but it can be managed. Those folks, and those with immune issues can and must be protected at all costs.

These three things together mean the death rate of such a strategy is nowhere near 1%.

> 330,000,000 ÷ 100 x 65 = 214,500,000

Serology studies pin the number closer to 0.6%, but of course that doesn't make the decision any less difficult -- although that is heavily, heavily age dependent.

What you're neglecting otherwise is the thrust of the article: lockdowns are temporary and the disease won't be stopped by lockdowns. Even under the most optimistic projection for vaccination, we may be hurtling towards the 65% number in the US one way or the other.

This article basically documents Sweden's approach. There hasn't been a COVID death in Sweden since August 24th, and at the moment, they continue to see ~150 new cases per day.

[1] [https://www.uth.edu/news/story.htm?id=b40ccaec-50c5-465c-b2d...](https://www.uth.edu/news/story.htm?id=b40ccaec-50c5-465c-b2d5-a911c0344614)

<comment><USER10> _Mortality rate in older folks is terrible, and needs to be managed, but it can be managed._

Yeah...I keep seeing this handwave from the "I should be able to do whatever I want" crowd. How exactly can it be managed? Basically it's "if you have any possible risk factor, you should lock yourself away so me and my friends aren't inconvenienced by your existence". Ignoring the fact (and the associated abdication of responsibility) that there's no established risk assessment beyond "if you're an oldster, stay home", and it's not clear why the many otherwise low risk are getting sick and dying. They are apparently the cost of partying on weekends.

<comment><USER9> As opposed to 100% of people locking themselves away? The reality is people won't do what you're asking. The evidence is in the infection curve. We have to manage the society/neighbors we have not the people we wish we had. Further, a few months later everyone can come out and play.

<comment><USER6> > a few months later everyone can come out and play.

I'm not so sure. Governments can't admit that fighting such a contagious virus with non-pharmaceutical interventions is extremely difficult on the long run. You're just buying time for a cure (not necessarily a vaccine: drugs work, too).

<comment><USER11> In case of this virus, probably not a vaccine. Or not alone. And any vaccine would need some period of widespread testing, comparable to how long it took to devise flu vaccines.

This one can jump species, reinfection cases have been described already, and coronaviruses in general are known to cause seasonal infections.

<comment><USER9> There have not been any re-infections. Any people who tested positive a second time saw either false positives or residual viral fragments.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Decline of Greyhound service mirrors rural Canada's plight - <AUTHOR> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/29/canada-greyhound-bus-ending-urban-rural?CMP=share_btn_tw <comment><USER3> When I moved to Toronto from Edmonton -- back in the 90s .com boom -- I did it via Greyhound. Under $100 to make it across the country, with all my vinyl records and a few other possessions in boxes under the bus. 50+ hours, reading Dune while popping sleeping pills and muscle relaxants to stay sedated and comfortable, most of that in the wide swathes of northern Ontario... lakes, trees, rocks, lakes, trees rocks, repeat.

Can't say it is the best of memories, but pretty profound ones. It was my future wife (then a good friend) who met me at the bus station off Dundas Street.

<comment><USER4> I love this excerpt of your life. I was pretty young at that point, but had similar experiences (though shorter trips) going up and down BC as a teenager. Instead of techno records I had CDs in a case on my lap. Eventually (after 4 or 5 years) someone was decapitated on a bus and my parents insisted I take a car. Strange times and a much worse ending than yours.

I'm sometimes nostalgic for the trees, rocks, lakes, etc. No concerns other than my discman running out of batteries or running out of change for drinks at bus stop vending machines.

edit: Remembering now that toward the end I had an iPod mini. That would have been 2008. The problem with the iPod was that you couldn't swap batteries.

<comment><USER5> And your comment brought back memories for me, too. For various reasons when I was young I had to fly internationally a lot, and I have memories of endless hours sitting in dark cabins listening to the CDs I'd bought in the previous country, checking my precious supply of AAs and drinking every coke in the plane. Or the hours spent waiting for connecting flights in dim airports, again with nothing but my trusty discman for company. Damn I loved that discman!

I think it was the nostalgia for endless travel that led me to book a 7-day rail pass in Japan a few years ago, and spend the entire week just catching trains to nowhere, staying a few hours, and catching them back - spending the entire trip just staring out the window as the countryside flew past at 300kph. In many ways I can't remember ever feeling more relaxed.

<comment><USER4> Wow, that really does sound incredibly relaxing. Coincidentally, before my first child was born, I was planning to take my bike to Japan and ride/rail around doing much the same. Hopefully one of these days I'll finally get to do it. Your description of it makes me want to even more.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> British Columbia's social democratic NDP government quickly stepped in with their own bus service to serve the north though I'm not sure if it's intended to be permanent.

[https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc- northern-...](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-northern-bus- transit-may-2018-1.4683199)

It could make sense for the government to step in here with a publicly owned transit service if there is a real market failure here in that it's not at all profitable to serve the sparsely populated North.

<comment><USER7> >It could make sense for the government to step in here with a publicly owned transit service if there is a real market failure here in that it's not at all profitable to serve the sparsely populated North.

If its unprofitable, maybe its a bad idea to have unused transportation. While a few buses seem like negligible damage to the environment, I imagine this greater plan is to grow these locations that are in unfavorable geographic locations. Isnt this environmentally irresponsible?

<comment><USER8> The fire department isn't profitable. Still a good idea to have it. Army's not profitable. Sidewalks aren't profitable. Don't get me started on libraries...

What's the point of money if we're only going to use it to make more of it?

<comment><USER9> Living in rural areas isn't a right but a privilege. It is economically and environmentally inefficient.

Rural areas should be designated for food production and tourism.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Greyhound didn't innovate. The buses look like they are super old. No wifi. Exorbitant prices. It's a terrible experience. Pay a bit more and you can take a train.

I've been on a government bus in Thailand. The seat reclines into almost laying position, comes with built in massager, video games and stewardess service. The cost of non-stop 9 hour ride was $20.

<comment><USER11> this is asinine. firstly what relative purchasing power of 9$ in Thailand vs Canada? secondly in developing countries the market for bus transport is enormous because only very wealthy have cars.

<comment><USER12> Plus I can imagine the population density of Canada makes a large difference, too.

<comment><USER13> Maybe in some cases, but I've taken multiple hours long buses in Taiwan and multiple hours-long buses here in Canada and price and quality of Canadian buses is way behind the times; inconvenient, expensive, and slow.

<comment><USER10> And Taiwanese were also able to build a high speed train in mountainous, very seismicacally active terrain. We can't seem to figure this out in flatlands.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> I remember reading that Greyhound had a pretty sizable dropoff in ridership after a passenger was decapitated and cannibalized on one of their buses. Googling finds this: [https://globalnews.ca/news/4331224/greyhound-bus- beheading-r...](https://globalnews.ca/news/4331224/greyhound-bus-beheading- ridership/)

<comment><USER15> _Vince Li, who now goes by the name Will Baker, beheaded and cannibalized a fellow passenger, 22-year-old Tim McLean, on a Greyhound bus that was bound for Winnipeg on July 30, 2008.

Li was charged with second-degree murder, but was found not criminally responsible for his actions. Li is a schizophrenic, but had not been taking his medication.

He has since received a full discharge from the mental hospital in Selkirk, Man., where he was being held_

Hmm

<comment><USER16> Smart decision to change his name, surprised more criminals don't do that once they are released.

<comment><USER17> A cannibal changed his name to "Will Bake Her'???

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> In the US, private operators of rural intercity bus service are eligible to receive operating subsidies under 49 § USC 5311(f). [1] Greyhound has written a manual for state and local governments that want to apply for a Section 5311(f) grant to fund Greyhound service. [2]

[1] [https://www.transit.dot.gov/funding/grants/formula-grants- ru...](https://www.transit.dot.gov/funding/grants/formula-grants-rural-areas- fact-sheet-section-5311)

[2] [http://extranet.greyhound.com/revsup/rfs/rfs- handbk.pdf](http://extranet.greyhound.com/revsup/rfs/rfs-handbk.pdf)

</comment><comment><USER19> >> Greyhound's decision to write off much of the Canadian frontier

Frontier? This isn't 1827. If Canada has a frontier it is The North, not Alberta.

Canada has significant problems when it comes to servicing small rural communities. Take the 82 year-old "cattle and grain farmer from Langenburg, Saskatchewan" who lives 11 hours outside Edmonton. Getting him health care is a huge problem, a much greater issue than him visiting relatives in the city. Greyhound didn't just disconnect small towns. It disconnected Vancouver form Kamloops, two large urban areas. It just disconnected Vancouver from _Whistler_. Those two cities hosted the 2010 winter games. If that link cannot be made profitable, there is no hope for connecting Langenburg.

(I took the Vancouver-Whistler route many times as a kid. It was horrible. Four hours in a bus station and then a horrible bus to complete a journey that could be done in an hour by car. When I turned 16 I bought a car and never looked back.)

<comment><USER20> Last time i took the vancouver-whistler route it was an hour and a half - <USER2> hours or so on the bus and like 20 minutes wait at the station on main st. This was 2 or 3 years ago now.

But oh man were the greyhound staff ever rude and because the first driver on the way out half tore my return ticket i had to beg the driver in whistler in let me on the bus with the ticket i had. He was really close to making me go buy a new ticket even after explaining. There was also only 2 or 3 departure times both ways.

<comment><USER21> >>But oh man were the greyhound staff ever rude

I personally saw this behavior in greyhound lines, and it wasn't even an outlier, it seemed to be the modus operandi. I thought it was horrible at the time and made me never want to ride the bus again. In fact, I avoided it as best I could.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Can Flix help?[1]. New investment, renewed vigour to innovate. If they can convert a good percentage of people who would now take their car because Greyhound's are so uncomfortable, they maybe profitable in these rural routes.

[1] [https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/greyhound-bus-routes- flixbu...](https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/greyhound-bus-routes- flixbus-1.4886264)

</comment><comment><USER23> It's unclear how much the bus was losing per year per person potentially served. Also, instead of traveling cross country all the way by bus, why can't they just keep a feeder pattern to big cities once every few days. That should save money. The goal should be provide transportation where there isn't something else, not independently cover the country.

</comment><comment><USER24> This basically mimics the decline of most rural areas in the US as well as parts of Europe. Declining services, population and job opportunities, even to the point where there's a marked difference in life expectancy. Unfortunately the future of the world seems like it's city based.

<comment><USER13> Unfortunate, in your opinion. Personally, I love dense cities and really dislike suburban and rural living. Everything is so convenient and there is always something to do that doesn't require driving for 20+ minutes.

<comment><USER25> I don't think that it needs the qualification. You're looking at it as either/or.

It's unfortunate that there's a decline in the lifestyle choices that will offer you opportunities and much of a future.

In the past, the city, the suburbs, and the rural areas were all viable options for making a good living and being in a healthy community.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> One of the strangest business practices Greyhound has is the $18 Gift Ticket Fee [1]. Want someone to buy a ticket for you online? That will cost an extra. Think you can avoid it buy going to the station and buying it in person? Nope, the fee still applies.

[1] [https://www.greyhound.com/en/help-and-info/ticket- info/cardh...](https://www.greyhound.com/en/help-and-info/ticket- info/cardholder-not-traveling)

</comment><comment><USER27> I'm surprised our federal government didn't offer to heavily subsidize the bus routes.

There really isn't any other way to travel across Canada at a fair price anymore.

We subsidize almost all forms of transportation, from the tiny GO railway system in the GTA at $2/ride, to VIA rail's cross-country treks at hundreds of dollars per ride.

Perhaps the numbers are really that dismal that subsidies didn't even make sense?

<comment> 52-6F-62 > _Perhaps the numbers are really that dismal that subsidies didn 't even make > sense?_

There's the question!

I also wonder if it isn't a chicken-egg problem. Or maybe I should call it a _Field of Dreams_ problem (if you build it, they will come).

It would be a boon to living in this country if it were easier to travel without spending large amounts on flights. I'd certainly see more of it, myself.

The fact that travel is so expensive or prohibitive can be pretty isolating. My own family lives but two hours away (in rural ON) and I see some of them maybe three times a year. My girlfriend's family is in Victoria (BC) and she sees them more often than that these days...

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> I'm Canadian, and I tried taking a greyhound bus from Chicago to Detroit. I travelled all over the world, and apart from childhood memories of communism, and my recent visit to India. Never had I seen so much disorganization. The bus station was totally overcrowded, with confused passengers. The attendants were screaming into the PA and it was hard to discern which bus line was for which bus over all the peaking and distortion. So I got in the information line, so I could know which ticket line to get into, so I could get into the right line for my bus. So many lines, and its going slow, and I know my bus will leave in an hour. I'm waiting impatiently, soon I'll be next. What happened next, was a Kafkaesque moment. I literally saw a guy get escorted out of the "Information" line for asking a benign question, one too many times. There was a cop already there outside, seemingly ready for such moments. And promptly put cuffs on the guy. When I asked if I could still catch my bus, I was told "I was bamboozled", and laughed at. I was confused, not wanting to argue, I stepped out of the line. Bathroom smelled of urine and vomit. It was mostly poor black people at that Greyhound station, being treated terribly by other black people.

I missed my bus, and ended up booking a Megabus, 6 hours later. It was a 5 hour trip, my lower back took a beating sitting over a wheel well. Never again.

If you're rich and want to check your privilege, and have a lower class, "Coming to America", kind of experience. Try taking a Greyhound Bus in Chicago. Highly recommend it for that purpose.

<comment><USER29> Always take the Amtrak train between Chicago and Detroit - so much nicer and easier. In my opinion, better than a car on a long weekend when the roads are jammed.

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> I used to take Grayhound to college. I have much less nostalgia. I remember them as long rides in very smelly buses, that usually had a start or stop is a very seedy neighborhood.

</comment><comment><USER31> I think the GO train in Ontario and MegaBus between cities may have taken a lot of the better routes from Greyhound too.

</comment><comment><USER32> > _Some analysts see it as yet another indicator that rural Canada is not only > struggling, but slowly decoupling from the country's thriving urban cores._

Sad story heard in a lot of towns around the US as well. What can a town do when all manufacturing/blue collar work was offshored a decade ago? And people think Russian Facebook ads are what propelled Trump to the whitehouse.

<comment><USER33> > And people think Russian Facebook ads are what propelled Trump to the > whitehouse.

It's not just "legal" ads that helped Trump. The bigger problem was the Russian propaganda and lies that (still) get spread virally over Facebook.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> Does The Guardian have any kind of political agenda in writing articles of this kind? For example, "encourage left-leaning folks to remain on the island instead of brexiting over to Canada" or something like that. I don't have a dog in the fight; was just curious given how much nation-on-nation journalism (even in the commonwealth) is political or agenda-motivated nowadays.

<comment><USER35> I mean, I can't say I know, but what about this particular article raises that question? They write about issues from all over the world[1], this doesn't seem any different. Plus I doubt most "brexit refugees" were planning on eloping to isolated regions of Canada.

[1] [https://www.theguardian.com/world](https://www.theguardian.com/world)

<comment><USER36> Plus I doubt most "brexit refugees" were planning on eloping to isolated regions of Canada

You'd be surprised how appealing BC looks to some of us here. Mind you, it (BC) looks bloody gorgeous all the time but as you say Brexit has nothing to do with the big country.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> So is population dropping? Or just ridership? Or did Greyhound suddenly have higher costs? None of that is answered in the article, unless I missed it.

<speculation:>

I assume operating such a bus line is not all that expensive, and costs shouldn't have been rising because fuel is still cheap.

So ridership must have been dropping.

So apparently they didn't need it all that much, otherwise enough people would have continued riding so that it would have stayed profitable.

That's the morale I guess: if you value something use it more often.

<comment><USER38> Thanks for not understanding the problem and making a trite snipe at the rural people of Canada.

People who live in these places do absolutely use these buses, and some people do need them, but (while I'm not sure about service cost) the prices go up regularly, many buses are packed, slow, and chronically late, and the population is in fact falling dramatically in rural Canada as the elderly move to care homes in the cities where their children already live -- it's not necessarily about choice, but about demographic and geographic change over decades.

If there is a moral here it is not "use it or lose it". Perhaps instead it is merely that we won't be able to rely on even the services we feel are essential, as the world changes around us over time.

<comment><USER37> If they are packed how can they be losing money?

Perhaps I'm wrong but its clear you are not right either.

<comment><USER39> One packed bus does not make a service, if it's unreliable. And over those distances, they may not be profitable at the ticket prices they charge. And they may not be commercially viable if the ticket has to recoup all the costs + profit.

That's why, sometimes governments operate services, even at a loss, as a benefit, to their citizens.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


New Chinese graphene smartphones boost battery life by 50% - <AUTHOR> http://thestack.com/chinese-firms-worlds-first-graphene-smartphones-030315

<comment><USER2> >The graphene technology was developed by the Chinese Academy of Sciences and is thought to make the touch screens more sensitive and prolong battery life by at least 50%.

With no real sources or other supporting information, nothing much from Google, and wild claims like that with no details on what a 'graphene based smartphone' even means, it seems like PR hot air, a gimmick, or both.

</comment><comment><USER3> If only the article would explain the how.

It's not because a device is made of graphene material that it magically gains 50% more battery life.

Somehow I have a feeling we're going to hear lots of magic numbers thrown at us with graphene in the coming years and then real life numbers will kick in.

Usually with each new material / technology comes pros and cons. I have yet to hear about the cons.

What's your opinion guys? Any expert on the subject on HN?

<comment> TD-Linux I know enough about graphene to say that the OP is content-less clickbait. There really isn't much more to say about it. Looking up research papers about graphene for each application would be a good way to get some insight into what it can potentially help with.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Clicking through the links and a little bit of searching, this seems to be closer to the original source:

[http://tech.163.com/15/0304/02/AJR1IG2P000915BE.html](http://tech.163.com/15/0304/02/AJR1IG2P000915BE.html)

There are no claims of boosting battery life by 50%.</comment>


Ask HN: What are some of your favorite advertisements? - <AUTHOR>

<comment><USER2> My personal favourite:

Double Life - [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bqq38WZctA](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bqq38WZctA)

Nothing explains better the potential of videogames.

EDIT: I have to add this one: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22HXIMASkZo](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22HXIMASkZo)

The idea of mixing a videogame shared universe with Toy Story for games is pure genious.

SONY's marketing department has made some really awesome commercials.

</comment><comment><USER3> I love this Canon (camera) advert:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg-9LuCQXrk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg-9LuCQXrk)

</comment><comment><USER4> Easy!

JELL-O Comb Over TV Commercial [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gporNcuC76M](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gporNcuC76M)</comment>


A game engine for building online adaptations of board and card games - <AUTHOR> http://news.dice.com/2014/08/06/sourceforge-interview-new-game-engine/ <comment><USER2> The problem with Vassal and other engines like this is that they focus all of their flexibility of solving the problem of playing a game, and virtually none on helping someone streamline the interface for people who are actually trying to play the game. The learning curve to use someone else's game is too high. They are two separate problems and they each deserve adequate resources to solve them.

<comment><USER3> I don't really get what you mean. Can you give an example? Do you want the game engine to unify the interface over many different games so that you can switch from one game to another with less work?

<comment><USER2> I'd like users to be able to customize the controls and hide options that make no sense for the function of the game they're playing. Perhaps a scriptable user control interface that allows plugins for different game types would be a more optimal solution. Granted, I haven't messed with Vassal in a while, but the last time I used it, it was just a mess that would take longer to explain how to use than it would to explain the rules of a brand new game.

<comment><USER4> Our experience has been that the two things you're asking for---a shallow learning curve for learning to use a game's UI and a UI customized for each game---aren't compatible in practice. We arguably have the latter, a UI customized for each game, right now and it generates no end of confusion because users expect the UI not to change completely between game X and game Y. If you give the module designer broad freedom to alter the UI, then what you get are differences in game UI between games which are down to the designers being different people more than differences between the games themselves.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Initially I thought this was just a framework that provided graphics + networking for building board games, but you still had to code all the board game logic yourself. Then I read "you don't have to be a programmer to write a module". How does this work, then? Is it aimed at providing a framework for a common set of games, like euro-style board games?

I had written a dominion simulator[1] a few months back. It took some thinking on how to handle some action cards (like playing a throne room on a throne room). I'm curious how Vassal would handle something like that.

[1] [https://github.com/egonschiele/dominion](https://github.com/egonschiele/dominion)

<comment><USER6> VASSAL is basically a virtual board - it wasn't really designed to do any form of rules enforcement, but rather handle the physical aspects of a board game. Given that translating game rules into software is often a daunting task, that's probably for the best!

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> I'll start watching this too. I have also been watching the [http://roll20.net/](http://roll20.net/) guys for a while now too. It's good to see more and more things like this coming about.

</comment><comment><USER8> There's a game on Steam called Tabletop Simulator with similar goals, but with the added bonus of a 3D playing space (including physics): [http://store.steampowered.com/app/286160/](http://store.steampowered.com/app/286160/)

Obviously a different sort of project (commercial & proprietary), but still an interesting one.

<comment><USER9> Tabletop simulator doesn't implement any rules. It is a physics sandbox with the focus on game related physics. It's a ton of fun to play with, and infinitely flexible, since there's no coding of rules. It does have specific coding for cards, dice, and a few other things, but no game rules.

<comment><USER10> Most VASSAL modules don't, either.

</comment></comment></comment><comment> andrey-p This is excellent. This may finally get my friend and I to finish prototyping that board game idea we've had for ages.

<comment><USER11> It's perfect for that! The BattleCON guys do it...

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> What do board game designers (and publishers) feel about this... I assume that it is relatively easy for IP to be ripped off, does the Vassal community self- police this? Or is it more a case of there are no sales lost due to the existence of copycat modules in Vassal since if you actually want to play the board game with friends in close proximity, you'll actually just buy the damn board game :-)

But I could potentially see lost sales of tablet implementations of board games; although those almost always codify the specific rules and logic of the game so again quite different to Vassal.

Like for example, Carcassonne: [http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Carcassonne](http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Carcassonne)

<comment><USER4> Many, many games published these days have a VASSAL module available before they go to press because game designers are using VASSAL for playtesting. In the wargaming world, there are publishers which actively promote the existence of VASSAL modules for their games (GMT and MMP are the two big ones which come to mind, though there are others as well), some which are indifferent, and a few which are opposed. The impression I get is that the availability of VASSAL modules increases sales for publishers which aren't in opposition to it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> VASSAL rules. Board game designers like myself even use it for playtesting. I can't wait for v4.

</comment><comment><USER14> Joel Uckelman's a colleague of mine (we write computer forensics software for our dayjob). He's on vacation in Wales for the next few days, but I'll direct him towards this thread when he's back online.

</comment><comment><USER15> My experience is that for wargames it works nicely. For other games, there are some really awful modules out there. I once tried a game – can't remember the name now – that in physical form it is usually played in about 45 minutes. With Vassal, it took almost four hours, despite the fact that we were all in voice conference with skype. It was extremely clumsy, a quite horrible user experience.

Ed.: I think it was Citadels, aka Ohne Furcht Und Adel

</comment><comment><USER16> I wonder if I could put together a hacked version of Supremacy (Risk-like with a nuclear and economical twist) using it. That would totally make the child inside of me REALLY happy. Checking it out now!

EDIT: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supremacy_(board_game)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supremacy_\(board_game\))

<comment><USER17> There are an astounding number of modules for VASSAL. The article calls it "a new engine" or whatever but it's been around forever.

[http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Supremacy](http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Supremacy)

<comment><USER16> Holy bananas! Thank you!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> Awesome! One of my many unfinished projects was a networked version of The Russian Campaign so that my dad and I could play together.

Looks like there's a Vassal module and we can finally get those games going.

</comment><comment><USER19> This kind of reminded me of WolFire's Desparate Gods which I think they made for a quick game jam. It's a different take and a bit silly because it's actually a complete simulation of a board game. It's really more up to the players to enforce the rules.

[http://www.wolfire.com/desperate-gods](http://www.wolfire.com/desperate-gods)

</comment><comment><USER20> Related, and quite old:

[http://www.zillions-of-games.com/](http://www.zillions-of-games.com/)

</comment><comment><USER21> Also, this is a great example of an open source project that is adaptable to many different uses.

<comment><USER22> Are there uses for the engine other than just board games?

<comment> andrey-p Given the breadth and variety of board and card games there are, I'd say this is pretty versatile already.

Though, having given it a quick try, it seems like it's a pretty powerful engine. I'm sure someone has used it for purposes other than the intended one.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> While it seems somewhat appropriate that an article about a boardgame engine should appear on a website called 'dice.com', I'm not entirely sure why it's there. It seems to be basically a reblog of SourceForge's August product of the month interview[1], being spun as something to interest people in game dev jobs on Dice.

[1] [http://sourceforge.net/blog/august-2014-project-of-the- month...](http://sourceforge.net/blog/august-2014-project-of-the-month-vassal- engine/)

<comment><USER24> You'd also think that for being project of the month and all, there would actually be a link to the SourceForge project. I looked hard and ended up having to use the search box to get to it.</comment></comment>


Snap Says DOJ and SEC Are Investigating IPO Disclosures - <AUTHOR> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-14/snap-says-doj-and-sec-are-investigating-ipo-disclosures <comment><USER2> Does anyone see a path to Snap continuing to exist 10 years from now?

I just don't see what they bring to the table that can possibly keep them afloat much longer.

<comment><USER3> I think what they bring to the table is drastically different than anything else out there. Although, admittedly imo they have lost their ways and people are moving to Instagram as an alternative (myself included).

But what separates them, and what they think people will eventually realize is that living in the moment is healthier, more rewarding and authentic than doing things for the purpose of likes and attention. Instagram is touching on this with stories that they copied but the entire Instagram platform just feels grimy overall (and snap is starting to feel that way as well with their uncustomizable discovery page).

So the path I see is them really focusing on authentic communication, and making the best ways to let friends share their true selves without worrying about likes because that's when you can have more fun. I think instead of being a camera company snap should be the 'moment' company. To me, there are lots of ways to enable people to have engaging experiences with others in the moment outside of a camera.

This video by Evan sums up the difference well too: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQYBLeV6sbM&t=7s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQYBLeV6sbM&t=7s) and also see Kanyes tweets ([https://twitter.com/kanyewest/status/1042779425048211456?ref...](https://twitter.com/kanyewest/status/1042779425048211456?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1042779425048211456&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.xxlmag.com%2Fnews%2F2018%2F09%2Fkanye- west-jack-dorsey-twitter-changes%2F)) on the matter :p

<comment><USER4> > people will eventually realize is that living in the moment is healthier, > more rewarding and authentic than doing things for the purpose of likes and > attention.

I have nothing to back this up other than intuition, but I think this is a stretch. People love and live for attention and validation.

That's not to say the world wouldn't be a better place if more of us didn't give a shit about the 'gram or whatever. But it seems like people definitely do, and I don't think we can stop them.

<comment><USER3> Oh totally, it's a big bet that people will come around. Some trends that give me hope is the increased interest in meditation, yoga and the ideas becoming more 'mainstream' with people like Kanye and others talking about it. But still, it's like trying to compete with cocaine and a wild all nighter while you're selling a home cooked meal and a movie with a couple of your close friends that go home before midnight.

But I also don't think it has to be one or the other. Both can have their place.

<comment><USER5> " it's a big bet"-> is this different then a long shot?

<comment><USER3> Same thing? Long shot, hail mary, moonshot. All work :p

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Spectacles was a flop. Snap Map was a flop. Discover as a separate section leaves much to be desired (Daily Mail thanks for the consistent cleavage /s). Instagram ate stories and interactive filters. It's been over for a while now.

<comment><USER7> Seriously I really wish I could stop having unwanted softcore porn show up in my discover section, since that's how I access friend's stories.

I would have switched to Instagram a long time ago if it wasn't the devil that is Facebook.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> If they thought snaps IPO was bad, what about Ben Horowitz's loud cloud IPO?

<comment><USER9> How is that relevant?

<comment><USER8> We're talking about not disclosing important info at the time of IPO. Loudcloud was weeks from not being able to make payroll as they incorrectly stated cash designated for lease payments as free cash.

My point is the SEC only punishes selectively.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Does anyone have a copy of the 15 minute Snap pre IPO roadshow video? I have tried to find it before with no luck.

</comment><comment><USER11> The DOJ that helps Facebook "fight election fraud" while benefiting from access to its data firehose has time to sniff around at Snap, which will only drive its stock price lower, which further helps Facebook weaken one of its only direct rivals.

This is why it pays to be corrupt. Notice there's not even a thought of an antitrust trial in the opposite direction.

<comment><USER12> But realistically what is Facebook doing that could be considered anticompetitive?

<comment><USER13> Ben Thompson at Stratechery writes thoughtful pieces around this for a start:

\- [https://stratechery.com/2017/why-facebook-shouldnt-be- allowe...](https://stratechery.com/2017/why-facebook-shouldnt-be-allowed-to- buy-tbh/) \- [https://stratechery.com/2017/manifestos-and- monopolies/](https://stratechery.com/2017/manifestos-and-monopolies/)</comment></comment></comment>


A Short History of Money - <AUTHOR> http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/02/a-short-history-of-american-money-from-fur-to-fiat/252620/

<comment><USER2> A short history of _American_ money.</comment>


Humaaans: Mix-and-match illustrations of people with a design library - <AUTHOR> https://www.humaaans.com <comment><USER2> Favourited. Really nice work and impressive landing page.

Would love to have an online tool for this also, as others have said.

The style of work really reminds me of undraw [1]

[1] [https://undraw.co](https://undraw.co)

<comment><USER3> Oh my god, the real gold is in the comments. Can you share some other cool stuff from your bookmarks?

<comment><USER2> Undraw is like the only thing I have to mind that I've noticed isn't as widely known. Perhaps these:

\- [https://cruip.com](https://cruip.com)

\- [https://unsplash.com](https://unsplash.com)

\- [https://feathericons.com](https://feathericons.com)

\- Why didn't I get any money from my startup? - A guide to Liquidation Preferences and Cap Tables [1]

[1] [https://www.reddit.com/r/startups/comments/a8f6xz/why_didnt_...](https://www.reddit.com/r/startups/comments/a8f6xz/why_didnt_i_get_any_money_from_my_startup_a_guide/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> Something's fascinating to me. Clearly there's a lot of diversity. But there also isn't. I don't associate with any of it. Not because I'm a green space monster. But where's the potbellied, grizzled 55 year old welder? Or the "I hate kale, more bacon please" mother of three? Everyone looks so... Chic and young and modern and... Silicon Valley.

Is it the art style? Is that the point? Is that what the robotic "HUMAAAAN" is teasing? That these aren't anything like real humans?

<comment><USER5> > _I don 't associate with any of it. Not because I'm a green space monster._

When I checked I didn't see any white people, so assuming that you are white the explanation for your reaction is probably just that your race isn't represented. People identify more with other people that look like them. If you had a kid from China draw a picture of some people they would all look Chinese, so my guess is that the author of the page is from a country that's mostly black and Hispanic. They might not even have noticed that they left white people out.

In that light the "real humans" comment comes across as a little weird, though, so maybe this doesn't explain your reaction. Although if it helps clear the air, I'm fine with pointing out that I would prefer to use an icon pack that included white people, after all that's me.

<comment><USER6> > In that light the "real humans" comment comes across as a little weird

But that's the light painted by _you_ , not OP. OP gave _very_ specific and valid examples of types of people that are missing. OP said, nor implied, anything about race. That's your straw man, and yours alone.

The only thing that's weird is that an illustration library called "humaaans" is no where near diverse enough to represent humans.

<comment><USER5> > _But that 's the light painted by you, not OP._

Right, I'm saying that's the most accurate light. I'm not trying to accuse the OP of anything.

<comment><USER6> It's actually the least accurate light, and a straw man argument fabricated by you alone. The criticisms about the lack of diversity have nothing to do with race, neither explicitly nor implied.

<comment><USER5> It's not a fabricated straw man, it's my actual opinion. (Typically a straw man would be a caricature of your _opponent 's_ opinion). I used to roll my eyes when people added new skin colors to emoji options, but now that someone left off people that look like _me_ , I understand that it's a nice gesture to be included.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Nice! This came at just the right time for me too.

I find the general attitude in this comment section curious, though; lots of people are arguing about the skin tone choice which is notably brown. Yet I feel that if it were lighter in shade, there would be much less grumbling and criticism about not including every single possible body shape?

<comment><USER5> The author left out white people, and since he's white himself and from California the "he just doesn't live around white people" explanation that I was originally going for can't be right.

If he had left out a people group that he didn't see very often (if he lived in Nigeria that could be white people, if he lived in Norway that could be Native Americans) then nobody would be upset. But all signs point to this being some kind of misguided political expression. I can see why everyone is riled up; it's (apparently intentionally) tapping in to one of the lava pools of "this is unfair" sloshing around America these days.

<comment><USER8> Nah, there's a simple explanation. Humaaans uses an artistic style of solid patches of color against a white background. Very light skin tones work terribly in this style because they disappear into the background.

<comment><USER5> If true that would be hilarious, but I don't see how we could ever know for sure. If the real reason were unsavory, there would be an overwhelming social bias not to reveal it; and as a result even a true, positive answer wouldn't help.

<comment><USER8> I made a white humaaan for you. It has some readability problems. :)

[https://danielvf- downloads.s3.amazonaws.com/2019/whumaaan.pn...](https://danielvf- downloads.s3.amazonaws.com/2019/whumaaan.png)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> OT: The word "Humaaans" makes me think of the Ferengi from Star Trek.

E.g. [https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/63716/why-do- the-f...](https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/63716/why-do-the-ferengi- pronounce-human-the-way-they-do)

<comment><USER10> Bjork's "Human Behavior" immediately popped into my head.

"If you ever get close to a humaaaan..."

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Interesting how I did not notice any issues with the library until I came to the comments and there were several mentions of implicit racism. There is some projection going on here.

Upon reviewing the site again, there are some lighter skin tones that I would identify with as a pale white man, if I really cared.

<comment><USER5> > _Upon reviewing the site again, there are some lighter skin tones that I > would identify with as a pale white man,_

I looked through it and I have to disagree, the skin tones are all dark. There is no reason to call that racist though, maybe the author just doesn't see a lot of white people in whatever country they live in.

Edit: ouch, I guess my optimism was misplaced. Given that he's from California, it really does look like the author was making a political statement.

<comment><USER12> It appears he lives in California [https://mobile.twitter.com/pablostanley](https://mobile.twitter.com/pablostanley)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Is it possible to add beard to the drawings?

Is there an online version that is posible to use without installing the library in my machine?

<comment><USER14> [https://ozgrozer.github.io/hdt/](https://ozgrozer.github.io/hdt/)

<comment><USER13> Thanks! I don't understand something: Is this a full demo, or an example with only a few features / images?

This demo doesn't have autosnap (I'm not sure about the official name).

Also, I can't change the color of the hair, but it is not clear if it is possible in the original version.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> This looks like the generic "people" artwork you see in so many places.

<comment><USER16> Indeed. Clipart is low culture.

<comment><USER17> Low culture is necessary and perfectly fine. Still, a lot of work went into releasing these free generic illustrations. Also, the more free clip art is available and used everywhere the quicker it will go out of style.

<comment><USER18> I think the ambiguity is what makes clip-art attractive, you can recognize people you know in them, while with the other extreme, actual photos, it would look like a stranger

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> What would be an interesting side-project would be to apply some machine learning, so a user could describe the kind of person / activity in a sentence and it would be generated using this.

</comment><comment><USER19> This is a quick and easy way to add a humane touch to a landing page and other similar content with the added benefit of being free (CC Attribution 4.0).

</comment><comment><USER20> This is awesome. Going to add it to a project that I was working on a new landing page for today.

For a bit of constructive criticism, the name makes the project really difficult to discover. I remembered having seen this on HN a couple of days ago, but when I went to look it up, I remembered it as "Humans with a few extra A's or U's," and I had to Google five or six variations before I found it. One too few or one too many A's will not bring up your project. I'm not sure if this is a lack of SEO, or a function of how Google treats misspelled words.

Other than that, looks like a beautifully designed library, and looking forward to putting it to work.

</comment><comment><USER21> Nice little Daft Punk easter egg in the panel with the "Nothing Found" example page ([https://genius.com/Daft-punk-digital-love- lyrics](https://genius.com/Daft-punk-digital-love-lyrics)), and the ending statement "We are humaaan after all." ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_After_All](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_After_All))

<comment><USER22> I managed to get Daft Punk and Level 42 simultaneously stuck in my head.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> On a Windows PC, what (free, open source) drawing program would I use to create illustrations using these pieces?

<comment><USER24> Inkscape

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> ( out of topic ) similar to material design, metro design, what is this website using?

</comment><comment><USER26> I'm using this on my landing page. The illustrations are beautiful and the way Pablo Stanley organizes all the assets in Sketch is amazing. Also note, Humaaans is under CC 4.0

</comment><comment><USER27> This is really neat! Reminds me of the style Airbnb, Stripe and Dropbox uses.

<comment><USER28> Now that this art style is freely available, prepare to see it slathered over every new startup promising an API for your SaaS that integrates with their PaaS and builds a future-proof IaaS.

<comment><USER29> Hope you're using AI and machine learning to do that on the blockchain.

<comment><USER28> Of course! Our cloud-native, Agile-first team of DevOps rockstars are working on that as we speak.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> Great execution and right on the money with style

</comment><comment><USER31> Looks like the artwork used on Google Fi website.

</comment><comment><USER32> This is the new version of stock photos for lazy and conformist people. But instead of having some young attractive models smiling at the camera with a flipchart in their hands, now you get a fast-food-style illustration, devoid of soul and personality, identical to the other designs used by some other startup, that's going to age like milk and will require a rebranding in two years. tl;dr — it's a fad.

<comment><USER28> That's tech industry marketing in a nutshell though. How many startup homepages promise "seamless integration with your stack" or "first-class customer experience" and fail to deliver?

Nokia's tagline back in the day used to be "Connecting People", and yet today it is FB that brazenly repeats this ad nauseam in its press statements each time another breach of user privacy is revealed.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> I can't find the SVG files?

<comment><USER34> There are several prominent "get the library" links on the page that lead to Dropbox where you can download the whole package. SVGs are in the "flat assets -> Humaaans" folder.

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> What is the font?

<comment><USER36> [https://www.myfonts.com/fonts/latinotype/recoleta/](https://www.myfonts.com/fonts/latinotype/recoleta/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> This is great, and I really, really love the inclusive-by-default approach.

<comment><USER34> Where inclusive == everybody is brown skinned?

<comment><USER37> I noticed the use of wheelchair users, and the different skin tones used on the landing page. I hadn't looked into the actual resources so hadn't seen that they are not in fact offered in a range of tones. Oh well!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> > We are humaaan after all

I'm not

<comment><USER39> Are you dancer?

</comment></comment><comment><USER40> where are the white humans? and the yellow humans? and the jet black humans?

I feel like the 1 skin tone is meant to be provocative, possibly be a deliberate troll, maybe start a discussion.

does the author wish to weigh in?

as a white human I feel excluded. maybe I'm attaching too much importance to skin tone as a part of identity. I think partly that's in our brains, partly it's emphasised by the media to divide us and create outrage, for power and engagement.

<comment><USER41> The average color of all human skin mixed together would probably be brown. Picking an average of everything should be highly uncontroversial.

<comment><USER42> Nobody is average.

OK, that's too short to really mean anything, so I'll elaborate. If you take the average characteristics of everyone in the world (wealth, skin tone, intelligence, BMI, height, gender, etc.), and turned that into a single person, then you would have a new, unique person. In other words, it would not "represent" anyone, and so should definitely be seen as controversial. There are a myriad of engineering stories about this discovery (one size doesn't fit all).

If anything, I would have loved to see more diversity, or at the very least a prominent message on how to achieve it. Color might be the easiest change to make, but I didn't see any old or fat people on there, or how to make those variations.

I like the overall idea of the project, though.</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Looking for a post about bad design of Twitter API retweet_count - <AUTHOR>

There was a post about Twitter API retweet_count being "100+" (string) after it exceeds 100 and was talking about it was such an undocumented bad API design example. I think it was posted this week and was on popular page. Search didn't work for my keywords. Anyone remember? <comment><USER2> <http://gazit.me/2012/01/09/Twitter-documentation-fail.html>

Discussion: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3444429>

<comment><AUTHOR> Yup, that's great. Thank you.</comment></comment>


New Commercial Extensions for MySQL Enterprise Edition  - <AUTHOR> http://blogs.oracle.com/MySQL/entry/new_commercial_extensions_for_mysql

<comment><USER2> This is frustrating to me. Thread pool has been a requested feature for quite a long time, and I'm sad to see it's not being contributed to the community edition. Wasn't it supposed to be a part of MySQL 6.0 and now MariaDB?

<comment><USER3> It's in MariaDB 5.1 and later.

<http://kb.askmonty.org/en/pool-of-threads>

Also, Pluggable authentication is in MariaDB 5.2 and later but I don't think that it ships with any plugins.</comment></comment>


Facebook Gets a Multibillion-Dollar Tax Break - <AUTHOR> http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-02-15/facebook-gets-a-multi-billion-dollar-tax-break

<comment><USER2> So, Facebook invites Obama to their HQ to give a "townhall", then many of their execs contribute heavily to his campaign, and then Solyndra, er, Facebook gets a massive tax break. This is one of the many reasons why I, too, have made Obama a secular substitute for Jesus and anti-racism an easy-to- satisfy substitute for a more rigorous personal morality.

In other news, Facebook co-founder Chris Zell has purchased The New Republic magazine and turned it into magazine so pro-Obama that even its former owner, Martin Peretz (himself an Obama supporter) has attacked it.

[http://pjmedia.com/ronradosh/2013/02/14/the-new-new- republic...](http://pjmedia.com/ronradosh/2013/02/14/the-new-new-republic- house-organ-of-the-obama-administration-and-martin-peretzs-forthright- condemnation/)

<comment><USER3> Facebook is taking advantage of a long-standing loophole in the tax code, not the President Obama Decrees Special Breaks For Buddies Act of 2013. There is a story here about the insidious influence of major corporations, but it's considerably more nuanced than the one you're pitching.</comment></comment>


The Bellic School of Management Training - <AUTHOR>

http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/09/bellic-school-of-management-training.html <comment><AUTHOR> He talks about "Grand Theft Auto IV" as though it were a Software Dev Management Training course. Towards the end he talks about outstanding games and how there should be re-makes of those.

<comment><USER2> This could just be me being "picky" but it is customary to post comments against the original posting rather than add a new HN post.</comment></comment>


Hello Solar Cycle 25 - <AUTHOR> https://www.weather.gov/news/201509-solar-cycle <comment><AUTHOR> September 15, 2020 - The solar minimum between Solar Cycle 24 and 25 - <USER2> period when the sun is least active - happened in December 2019, when the 13-month smoothed sunspot number fell to 1.8, according to the Solar Cycle 25 Prediction Panel, co-chaired by NOAA and NASA. We are now in Solar Cycle 25 with peak sunspot activity expected in 2025, the panel said.</comment>