Ask HN: What did you do after quitting the IT industry and how have things been? - <AUTHOR> There's currently a thread going on where people are discussing what they would do if they quit their IT career. I have been in software industry for more than a decade now and since some years now have been thinking of what I would like to do when I quit the industry and how soon I can quit. I no longer have the immense passion I used to have some years back when it comes to software problem solving.
It's been a while since I have been thinking about it but haven't yet been brave enough to quit the industry (mostly financial reasons).
My question to others here is, have anyone of you quit the IT industry to do something that interested you (not necessary a job) and how have things been for you after quitting the industry? <comment><USER4> I guess I should answer this one. I quit computer programming to teach public elementary school during the summer of 2015. I had been planning my exit for five to maybe ten years ago. The pay is nowhere near what one can make as a programmer - but I didn't really need all that money anyway. I teach a technology class - every kid in the school takes it for an hour - some of it involves programming, some of it is letting the kids explore tools like Twine, some of it is programming my own apps for the class.

For me - I can't see myself going back to an office. To teach kids is such an antidote to the self-loathing and looming pointlessness that I felt as a programmer. I'm not saying those feelings apply to any of you or to the profession as a whole - I just needed people in my life. And I guess I was tired of feeling like other people were using me for their projects - I want to use me for my projects.

I'm still in a bit of transition - do I continue experimenting in the classroom and attempt to release the apps I develop there? Or do I stay focused on teaching and improving my community? I think I'm set on the latter - I'm happier when I'm not chasing some impossible dream. But who knows - <USER2> still has ambitions that are impossible to repress anyway. Either way - it's great to have this kind of choice.

<comment><USER5> I left the tech world to teach high school. Two years in I felt the same as you do now. Five years in, not so much - and I returned to programming.

I still like teaching and still do it part time, but would not want to be a full time public school teacher again.

<comment><USER4> I'm not sure if I would feel quite the same about high school - one time I showed up to work and there was a green construction paper heart in my mailbox that had YOU CAN HANDLE THIS SITUATION sloppily printed on it.

No - you're right, this is all still fresh to me - second year has been even better than the first. Let me know if you ever write up your feelings, I would love to hear about your full experience.

<comment><USER6> You know, sometimes I could use one of those hearts at my job.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I became a full time father and results have been stellar. My boy is now one year old and turns out to be very clever... And very strong. He could crawl at seven months and started to learn how to walk at 11 months. His first word was 'hunger' (in Dutch, it sounds virtually the same) at two months, maybe it was imaginative but he was happy to eat after we we heard him say it, haha. Now he can also say 'mama' and 'papa', but it appears that he is deferring the rest of his vocal development until later because he can manage fine by using the Dutch equivalent words for 'that' ('die', sounds like 'thee') and 'food' ('eten', sounds like 'aitan').

His mother is happy that she can focus on her career while leaving him in my care at home, although it's harder than she imagined because she does miss us dearly while away from home and is counting the hours at work... probably because we're two very cool froods (wink). After the infamous initial "post- natal bumpy ride" our relationship is back where it used to be - at 100%.

I'm the happiest man ever and wouldn't want it any other way.

<comment><USER8> I've been developing in C, in the finance industry as a high frequency trader as well as being a father. My son is home schooled and is typing elementary level sentences at 3 years old, he can also strum the guitar playing notes C D E F G A B on request.

The down side is I work 10-12 hour days, but I get a performance bonus between 400k and 800k every year. I'm hoping I can retire in my late 30's, but I do miss out on a lot of time with my son and I always ask myself is it really worth it... Who know's though, I'm going to ride out the HFT route as long as it exists.

<comment><USER9> How have you not retired yet with a 400-800K bonus is the better question?

<comment><USER10> It takes about $6M to retire at that standard of living at such an early age.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I took two breaks from tech. One was for grad school, which I dropped out of after 3 semesters. Like some others in the thread I found academia to be pretty bad. You're paid shit and treated like a peon. The work was actually interesting, but I knew I could just go back to private industry and make 5-10x as much doing the same type of work.

I took a break from "everything" at one point and became a nightlife photographer in a large urban area. It didn't pay much. It mostly involved drinking and doing drugs, on someone else's dime, until the early morning. It was a great time for the most part, and I met lots of interesting people. After about 6 months I got tired of it and went back to tech. Note: having a professional camera in a club is a great way to meet women.

I'm considering leaving tech again, or at least ending my engineering career. I no longer find it personally enjoyable to build systems. Building systems that other people want, instead of ones I'd want to build, has jaded me. I've worked at several companies, large and small, over the years. And I've found that as a tech shop matures, that exciting feeling of creating a product dulls. It dulls to the point of becoming anesthetic. The longer you stay, the worse it becomes. I wouldn't mind staying in the tech field. I just don't want to spend all day in front of a monitor anymore.

<comment><USER12> > The work was actually interesting, but I knew I could just go back to > private industry and make 5-10x as much doing the same type of work.

Don't you have much more freedom in academia on what you want to pursue though since it doesn't have to make money or am I mistaken? I'm considering going into academia because I'd like to do research more on the theory side for which there don't seem to be (m)any industry positions.

<comment><USER13> I didn't find that to be true. As a grad student and also as a postdoc, you work on whatever your PI can get grants for, which means you work on whatever the big grant-funding agencies think is fashionable.

Also in academia there's less ability to pivot when a project isn't working out -- if the results will be "novel" (i.e. you can get a paper out of it), you're pretty much stuck continuing in a line of work until you publish it, even if you've already concluded it won't be useful in the real world.

In industry, as soon as I determine that a piece of work won't be useful, I can drop it and work on something more useful. Personally, I much prefer the criteria of "usefulness" as a reason to continue a project, rather than "novelty". Other people may differ on that preference.

<comment><USER14> Autonomy in academia depends entirely on the field, the funding situation, and the advisor. If you choose wisely, you can build a highly autonomous career. But it is hard for the inexperienced to figure out how to make the right choices.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> I quit my Software Engineering job and am now spending two years driving my Jeep around Africa.

I'm working while on the road, writing for magazines, selling photos and filming a YouTube series.

I am having the time of my life, and am extremely happy I made the decision I did. IMHO, sitting at a desk is just not worth it. Life is too short. I'm meeting a ton of people who agree, and are living the kind of life people spend their lives dreaming about.

If you're interested in my trip:

Facebook: [https://facebook.com/theroadchoseme](https://facebook.com/theroadchoseme)

Instagram: [https://www.instagram.com/theroadchoseme](https://www.instagram.com/theroadchoseme)

Twitter: [https://twitter.com/dangrec](https://twitter.com/dangrec)

YouTube [http://youtube.com/c/theroadchoseme](http://youtube.com/c/theroadchoseme)

And my website: [http://theroadchoseme.com](http://theroadchoseme.com)

<comment><USER16> Visit the Land of a thousand hills(Rwanda) while on the trip.

<comment><USER17> All the way up to Lake Kivu! As safe as Rwanda is, you need to be wary of the neighboring countries: DRC and Burundi.

<comment><USER15> Yeah, I'm wary of DRC, but I have to cross it on my way South on the West coast. I'll go fast.

My research says Burundi is pretty stable.. I was planning to go there. Do you recommend otherwise?

<comment><USER18> You're planning to cross the DRC, and you're going to do it "fast"? Please tell me that was a joke, because this is what awaits you:

[http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/ride- tales/democratic-...](http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/ride- tales/democratic-republic-congo-lubumbashi-kinshasa-53285)

Update: Ah, I take you're going to cross north to south, meaning you only have a (comparatively) tiny slice to go through. Then you'll likely survive, good luck getting the Angolan visa though...

<comment><USER15> Angola transit visa has not been a problem for any overlander in the last 6 months.

30 day Tourist visa seems to be issued to about 50% of people that ask.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> I quit and will be starting my first of a two year pre-law program in two weeks. I'm quitting for a reason I haven't seen represented in the thread: "It's not even what I wanted to do as a career when I finished college" I only ended up in IT when my first job at a law firm as a file clerk nearly ended due to workforce reductions at a mid-sized law firm-an attorney I had helped in a big way solve a rather mundane word processor problem vouched that the company should keep me on and assign me to the help desk.

I found that I was very good at the work, thirteen years later I woke up one day really wanting to actually use my humanities degree (PoliSci and Public Policy) and that my joy of doing computers for other people was gone, and I didn't have the patience to keep up with where tech was going to stay competitive.

That, and the current state of affairs for people in my social group (African- Americans) compelled me to go back and do what I wanted to in college: fight for better laws and fair access to public resources.

nb4 "The legal profession isn't what it used to be, you [probably] wont become some rich attorney" to which I say "Good. Because that's not what I want to be. I don't want to be _rich_ , I want to be _good_ at what I do and give my kids something to be proud of come career day that isn't "he fixes computers at the local call center".

tl;dr - I have a humanities degree and I got tired of not using it for almost fifteen years.

<comment><USER20> I'm disappointed you are leaving tech. I wish there were more opportunities in tech that fulfilled your desire to fight for better laws and access to public resources. I suppose I'm happy you aren't leaving because of discrimination (making the assumption your social group represents your heritage...)

<comment><USER21> Me too. I'm looking for ways I can apply my technology skills to further social progress.

<comment><USER19> Does your city have an open data initiative? That's a good start; Austin is working on turning a lot of paper forms into webforms to make it easier to request various city resources.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> It's a shame we won't hear from the people who left and never came back to IT. They're likely no longer here to answer your question! Nevertheless, it's interesting hearing people's stories.

At 25 (4 years as an engineer, games, DTP) I felt pretty burned out so I took a year out to travel the world. I saw incredible places, had new experiences, met people from a wide variety of backgrounds who I'd never have encountered in a provincial 9-5 office job. It was amazing. When I returned I moved to a new city and got back into tech, my passion for which had been reignited during my time out. I hadn't missed it, but I was keen to get into a new job in a new tech area and learn new things.

Burn out it a common problem in tech. If it were possible/affordable, taking a six month sabbatical to do something entirely different – travel, charity work, teaching, writing, whatever! –might be the best thing anyone could do to keep their passion and enthusiasm for tech burning. Maybe it's something you do every 4/5 years.

If you're good at your job, valued by your employer and have saved a bit of money, it might even be easier than you think...

<comment> joatmon-snoo I'm a senior in uni right now, and also a member of a business frat so I know a ton of people in finance/consulting, the classic poster child professions for early burnout.

We had a guy come give a talk two years ago about his work, and it ended up being sort of a life/success story and it was absolutely fascinating: he had done a variant of exactly what you describe, on for a few years, off for one or two to reset and explore passions, rinse and repeat.

The applause he got from our graduating seniors was very telling.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> Well, personally, I tried to escape by going and getting a Master's and a PhD. Unfortunately for me, I didn't bother to really LOOK at academia as a career path, so when I finished and started looking into it ... well, it's pretty crap, being an academic, no matter which country you're considering. Also, academia only considers the work you've done post-PhD as being of any worth, so I'd be competing with kids who'd gone straight through, rather than those who'd spent 20 years in industry first.

I've considered a wide variety of things, but always come back to this: if I keep on saving at my current rate, I can not have to make any profit whatsoever, whereas if I start out now with something (a bakery, say), then I'll need to keep on making a profit, so that I can retire some day. I've got another 10-15 years in software and then I'm done and can do whatever. Check out [http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly- sim...](http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math- behind-early-retirement/) to figure out where you land on that scale.

<comment><USER24> Mr Moneymustache's first assumption is not supported by historical data.

"1\. You can earn 5% investment returns after inflation during your saving years."

In Investing, It's When You Start And When You Finish [http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/01/02/business/20110...](http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/01/02/business/20110102-metrics- graphic.html?_r=0)

<comment><USER25> That chart, I believe, does not take into account dividend reinvestment. I picked their worst datapoint on a twenty year horizon, '61-'81\. I plugged January '61-January '81 into this calculator [1]. With CPI adjustment turned on, the annualized return with dividend reinvestment was 2.3%. That's the worst twenty year period in history.

Another difficulty with this analysis is that retirees do not withdraw lump sums twenty years after they retire. They withdraw smaller amounts each year. I have created a spreadsheet to simulate a retirement starting in 1961 [2]. You were probably feeling a bit nervous in '81, with your nest egg down to two thirds of its original size. But even in this terrible, terrible scenario, by following the 4% rule, you arrive at the same amount of real wealth you started with after thirty years. If you were lucky enough to live for forty years of retirement, you're two and a half times as wealthy as when you began.

Please let me know if you see any errors in my calculations. I've made notes on how I arrived at each number in the comments on the columns starting in year 1961.

The _actual_ worst year for early retirement was '65, when a pure 4% rule portfolio would have failed after twenty five years. But, if you build some engineering tolerances into your spending plans, then even that was survivable [3]. Engineering tolerances in this case are meant to refer to leaving yourself room so that you can spend less if you must.

[1]: [https://dqydj.com/sp-500-return- calculator/](https://dqydj.com/sp-500-return-calculator/)

[2]: [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VXYx12gBECG537mswqRM...](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VXYx12gBECG537mswqRMFz655HD6tGEQ2TF0XiwoG9Y/edit?usp=sharing)

[3]: [http://www.gocurrycracker.com/the-worst-retirement- ever/](http://www.gocurrycracker.com/the-worst-retirement-ever/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> I would think long and hard about leaving an industry you're established into, before doing it. I left in 2008 because, after two mergers, I had run out of steam and felt I wasn't wanted. I lost money because the crash caused the options I had to be worth less than I had hoped, but I attempted to make a living making wood-fired pots. I'd been making pots for ages, but they weren't good enough, and I didn't know how to build a business. I've been fortunate to have had a friend who employed me twice, but I now find myself living on dwindling savings but nine years out of date.

I would suggest that if you are running out of passion, then find an unrelated but expensive hobby, or find something related to IT that you can get passionate about.

And if you're certain you want to leave, start planning now.

<comment><USER27> > _find an unrelated but expensive hobby_

Why expensive?

<comment><USER28> so you need to turn up to the job you hate!

<comment><USER27> I thought so. What if I don't hate my job yet? Should I just give it more time? :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> The first time I quit, I was 23. Took everything I had and went to travel across the world. When I ran out of money, I cam back and did some odd jobs, ran a small ebay business, and played poker, while trying to figure out what I wanted to do. Eventually, that stopped being realistic, so I moved to a bigger city and got a job.

After about two years of that, got fed up, and quit again, and went to grad school to get a PhD. After two years of that, I realized I was working 2-3 times as much for about a tenth of the pay I could be getting. I finished my masters, bailed from the PhD, and got a job back in tech.

My plan now is to use this time to make as much and learn as much as possible, and eventually pivot into something else at some point in the future, while always having the ability to fall back into tech if need be.

<comment><USER30> How was traveling until you ran out of money? Do you regret it? Also, what do you mean by 'pivot into something else?' Do you intend to take your Grad school knowledge and start a business?

<comment><USER29> No regrets at all. I only had about 2k + another 3k off credit that I spent. It seemed like a lot then, and it can go a long way when you're 23 and cheap.

By pivot, I mean my end goal is to open a beach bar in the Caribbean.

<comment><USER31> I'd try working in one before actually trying buying one :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER32> After about 20 years of computer stuff, I've found a new interest - sailing. I spent most of the money gained from computer stuff on a boat, learnt how to repair it and sail it (repairing being the far more extensive subject), and am about to set off for a long trip. While doing this I've been using my newly gained skills and combined with my existing skills (computers, networks, electronics) did some work in the marine sector (mostly for the odd dinner, some of it paid) - turns out boats are full of special purpose computers and most of the "specialists" fixing them are uhm, not the best. My skills found quick appreciation. Might continue down that road once I run out of money.

I guess my advice is to do a bunch of things and see what you enjoy, new opportunities will happen as you do. Having an IT background is helpful almost anywhere, and more valued outside of core IT areas.

<comment><USER33> You ever watch svseeker on youtube? He's a DBA building a boat; I've been watching him for years now and he touches on how his job is just a means to an end in his goals.

<comment><USER32> Nope. I do watch a few sailing vlogs though: DrakeParagon, Untie the Lines, La Vagabonde and Sail Life. Each have a very different approach to the subject, ranging from extensive preparation and fitting redundant systems (Drake), to buying a beat up boat and just casting off on a round the world trip, figuring it out as they go (La Vaga).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> I quit my career for 4.5 years while I did other things that I wanted to do like teaching, writing, and traveling. It was definitely worthwhile and I'm grateful I was able to do it, but the same things that I disliked about my experience in the IT industry end up showing up in other jobs and things I did. I came back to IT with a different perspective and I got a lot better at making my job what I want it to be.

If you're going to quit, I think it's better to have clear goals and ideas of what you are going to do next and why you want do to those things. The act of quitting will give you immediate satisfaction, but long-term finding that thing that gets you up every single morning is more rewarding.

<comment><USER35> What did you write?` I am genuinely curious as I never had an urge myself.

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> I taught English in Korea for a year. I absolutely hated it. I was teaching mostly elementary-school. I never got the hang of creating order in the classroom or keeping kids interested. Every second was just torture.

In retrospect though I'm glad to have done it. Glad I stuck through the contract, though sometimes I wonder if it'd have been better for the kids if I had bailed and let someone more qualified come in my place.

The one nice thing about it is when you're done for the day, you're done. (At least if you're not a very good teacher). With software you're always thinking about it even if you're not actively working on it (or at least I am), it just invades your whole life. So it was great having nights and weekends completely free to do whatever you want.

The one adult class I had was fun. But you've got to get lucky to get a position teaching only adult classes, and the hours can be worse.

All that said, I'm back in software now.

</comment><comment><USER37> I bailed out of the industry during the dot-com crash -- actually, almost exactly the night before! -- and eventually became a climbing instructor and indoor climbing center manager.

I ended up in debt but to this day it's still the best job I ever had and despite all the work I've had to put into getting my life back on track financially, I'm still glad I did it.

I came back to IT about 10 years ago, but now I have a whole pile of non-IT skills and interests that I can dive into whenever I need a break, so burnout is much less of a problem overall. Working as a climbing instructor and gym manager also helped me learn how to talk to people and have a little bit of fun now and again.

<comment><USER38> Recently picked up an interest in caving after a successful trip. I can say it might be the way out of my periodic burn out. It's exciting planning new trips and then coming back relaxed and ready to take on the IT challenges. I wish I had discovered this earlier.

</comment></comment><comment><USER39> Left the industry after 15 years, bought a garden store with existing customers and an online site. The freedom and family time was nice but burned through my savings and sold one of my paid off cars to pay the mortgage. Had a second child and needed to get back into the industry after 3 years. Sold the store, broke even, and went back to the 9-5.

This time the exit is being more thoughtfully executed. While making a good salary, I am slowly buying rental properties. Up to 3 so far. Fingers crossed that the second time is a charm.

Many in the industry say an IT job comes with golden handcuffs. Most other professions don't pay as good. IT workers often times make what management from other departments make.

</comment><comment><USER40> I quit during the first dot-com bomb. I was a UNIX sysadmin for a large company. I had been interested in geodesy and GPS/GIS for a long time, so I became a land surveyor and GPS/GIS technician. I also did a lot of hydrography and even LiDAR work.

In 2008, when the subprime mortgage crisis hit, everyone thought that the crash would only affect residential real estate, but that turned out to be false—it also took commercial property down, since nobody was buying and selling. The civil engineering firm I worked for laid off all 12 staff surveyors, including me, on the same day. We all ended up down the road at a pub, and the senior surveyors were buying the drinks and we reminisced for a while. But that was effectively the end of two-man survey crews and traditional total station/transit instrument tech. Now it's all robotics and scanning which means one man operations.

I then travelled for a while. I went to Israel and a few other countries in the Middle East, met a new girlfriend there, and got married. Before getting married, I decided to go back into technology and become a web developer and slowly move back into DevOps. Unlike some of the people in this thread, I enjoy working in tech a lot more now than I did when I started. I find that working conditions (remote, &c) and pay have improved a lot, and public understanding of what developers do has increased dramatically.

</comment><comment><USER41> Bought a restaurant with family in hopes of staving off then-impending tech burnout - nothing fancy, so it's been a fun and mildly profitable side project. Was just about to hop on the med school path but I got pregnant at the worst time. Thinking I'll take a year to parent and maybe do some contracting while thinking about what to do for the future. Tech definitely pays well but I lost much of my interest in the past few years, so it's a bit of a dilemma. I am partially waiting it out and doing other things in hopes that taking a break will make me feel better about going back.

<comment><USER42> How do you run a restaurant as a side project? I'd heard that this business requires a huge amount of time.

<comment><USER41> It does, even for a quick serve restaurant. I share the load with my mom. She plays a day-to-day managerial role so she isn't bored while "retired" and more than covers her needs with what she takes home. I do stuff from afar (from ordering food to payroll) plus I go in person 1-2 times/week (maintenance/repairs, one-off shopping trips, playing bad cop).

If my parents didn't want to work there any more then we'd have to hire a manager type full-time and I'd have to go over there half the week at least. It's still profitable enough to live okay in the Bay Area though, so I can't complain!

If it wasn't a QSR I'd definitely have to sink more time into it. Most places need a lot more labor or specialized labor (especially something like sushi or finer dining) and the labor costs end up being so large that restaurants doing 2x my volume make the same profit for the owner while being more stressful... silly. I'd rather run two restaurants of what I already have than to run a bigger, fancier place. Working on paying off the last of the loans and replacing/remodeling this one before I look for a second, though.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> Quit development, became a voice actor. A lot like a freelance developer or designer is a hustle, but damn do I love being behind a mic. If you need a voice for your explainer I'm still pretty comfortable with tech lingo terms, although I could not tell you what a tensor is!

<comment><USER44> Hey do you have any resources like books or youtube that can help someone work on their voice?

Im not looking to get into voice acting at the moment, but I do love what some actors are capable of doing with their voice. For example James Gandolfini, his voice is completely different as Tony Soprano from his real life voice. Granted, he has voice and dialect coaches, but ANY book or video that can help me even begin to learn how to manipulate, open up, free my voice etc would be helpful, thanks! And, good luck with your new career.

<comment><USER45> Pick up any reading material.. a magazine, newspaper, anything.. and just read it in a different voice. Create a character in your mind with an accent and just read it as that person. Then start having conversations with other people you don't know, introducing yourself as that character. You'll have to invent life details on the fly, but that's fine as long as its consistent. Do this for about a year.

It's really the acting part that matters in the end. :D

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> I quit in Summer 2015 after working 5 years as a front-end engineer. I did a ton of camping and reading first. Then I worked on some farms in the Pacific Northwest for a few months. After that I moved into my family's second-home in Utah and started a part-time job as a cook at a farm-to-table restaurant.

I started a company with the mission of improving food systems. So I'm working on my second prototype app for this area. It's definitely a struggle to not have a salary and not be around a company of talented people every day, but I'm still enjoying it. I don't love writing software, but I just feel like what I'm working on needs to exist--so that's what I do now.

</comment><comment><USER47> I didn't, and I should have.

I have been programming for 49 years. I lost my government job in an agency downsizing, worked for a university for 3 years until I could buy into a small pension with health insurance. I bought a house in Mazatlan, Mexico for the winters and am a camp host for the Forest Service during the summers. I'm still hacking.

I didn't have the balls to leave the profession even though I wanted to. Now, I'm comfortable, but I regret not having done something adventurous and feel too old for an adventurous life now.

</comment><comment><USER48> I feel the same way you feel. Growing up I was absolutely fascinated with computers and knew I wanted to be a computer scientist since the age of 12 or 13. Now that I'm in the industry (and not in academia like I initially thought I wanted) the magic is gone and I want to get out, hopefully within the next 5 years or so. It's not that I dislike programming, in fact I still love it, but now that I'm solving other peoples' problems instead of working on my own pet projects it's just not the same.

As far as what I'd do afterwards? I'm kind of at a loss. I've had ideas that range from opening a bar to buying a plot of land and farming it, but they all seem so crazy and out of reach.

<comment><USER49> I'm buying a sailboat with my wife and daughter and sailing the world in 18 months (waiting for the last of my options to vest). Think about it! It's ~$60-100k to get the boat, and you can live on ~$24-30k/year doing it. There's a huge community out there of cruisers who do it full time.

<comment><USER50> I hope your daughter doesn't suffer from boredom after the initial novelty.

<comment><USER49> From the other families I've talked to who have traveled the world with their children by boat, or countries by caravan/RV/Airstream, boredom doesn't seem to be an issue (compared to a lackluster childhood in Suburbia).

Lots of people out there breathing who aren't living.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER51> I'm not sure it it completely applies but here it is anyway. I wasn't working software development but as a evangelist at my last job and as a software engineer before that. 1.5 years ago I decided I wanted to change career paths and get into energy and renewables. I had two options in front of me, either go back to school or jump head on in. I quit my job at MSFT and moved to Rwanda, to join a small off grid solar energy company. I woke up everyday driving out to rural health centers and building things that actually changed peoples lives. I had to pinch myself almost monthly to let alone believe this was a job and I was getting paid to do it. In the end I got back into writing code but learned so much more while doing ii. So from my experience, I would highly recommend it. Just zero in on something you find super interesting.

</comment><comment><USER52> I'm back in the industry at the moment, but I did quit my job a few years back. I hired an allotment, grew a lot of vegetables, taught myself to bake bread and did a few other projects.

How was it? It was just great and it taught me about living on much smaller amounts of money, which is very helpful now that I have children and I work for a charity.

So maybe that's slightly off topic, and more of a career break than quitting the industry, but I'd still recommend it all the same.

<comment><USER53> How does one go about renting a small piece of land for hobby farming?

<comment><USER54> I'm not sure where the parent poster lives, but I've read about this system (called allotments) in kids' fiction; it was apparently common in the UK (and may still be). Some of the characters in the stories used to be growing vegetables in their allotments :) It's something like small plots of land in or near the edges of towns, so easy for the renters (town-dwellers) to reach after/before work or on weekends.

I've done a good amount of gardening myself, and it is great fun (apart from being a good way to get fresh vegetables etc.)

<comment><USER52> Yes,it's a UK tradition which, if I'm correct relates back to WW2 and growing your own stuff in harsh times. It's still really common in the UK and one can get a good plot of land (within London boundaries, maybe about 100 sq mt) for less than GBP100 per year, often within 1 or 2 miles from your house. It's a fantastic deal.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER55> I don't think they are on hacker news anymore :)

<comment><USER56> Definitely, but they could have friends here that can report about what they're doing now. It would be interesting to know.

</comment></comment><comment><USER57> I started writing some apps and then quit my tech job to do them full time. I took a big risk in quitting my job, I was making $3 a day at that point. I was EXTREMELY burned out with the work though (Java/Oracle dev) so was for my mental sanity. I learned how to make money quickly from the apps, I make 3 sometimes 4 figures a day so support myself. I chose evergreen apps, they are always popular. I delivered my first app 6 years ago, quit job 3 years ago. I have done apps enough, I am looking at getting back into other fields, likely that I will do tech again this year. First goal to achieve this year is a mortgage free home, then will consider how I feel about things. Apps are now passive, I am burned out on devving new ones, I like keeping the UI's on the existing ones up to date if I feel like doing something. I feel I am in a good position but indie apps has been lonely and has warped my social life - working for others has a social advantage. Apps also now 100% passive so want to have the advantage of earning $ while I can - make hay while the sun shines.

<comment><USER58> Congrats on your successful transition.

May I ask what do you mean by evergreen apps? How did you pick what to work on? I'd love to read more on this subject.

</comment></comment><comment><USER59> I haven't quit altogether, but I have left my job every 18 months or so to take a few months off. Spent 3 months in Europe this past time and now just starting up a new job search. When working I save more than enough money to cover the cost of the months without work.

So far it's provided a very relaxing pace of life giving me a nice break from the office grind every time I start to get fed up with it.

I figure sooner or later it will get hard to find jobs with a work history like that, but we'll see how this round goes.

</comment><comment><USER60> I quit working in tech to become an EMT and now a Paramedic. I was completely burnt out with the M-F 9-5 drag that IT jobs kept me in. I was not at the developer level, more support/sysadmin roles. And all of them over the years just burnt me out.

I make way less than what I used to. However, I'm happier. I enjoy my job so much more. I still do tech stuff as sort of a hobby and I keep my small web hosting company, maintain some sysadmin skills that way.

Would I go back? Yes. Mostly for financial reasons.

I'm also certified as a firefighter, but at the age of 41, the chances of me getting on with a fire department full time are very low. I am frequently disqualified from jobs because of age limits (legal in fire service jobs, unfortunately) and that (like it or not) I am not a protected class that would be exempt. On paper, younger candidates are much more preferable. I work for a private EMS agency (not all 911 services are provided by fire based EMS) instead, but am still at least applying for part time smaller town fire departments.

I feel like my skills with server administration are kind of stagnant. A lot of places aren't self hosting things anymore. The big push to outsource and virtualize services cut into the market I was in substantially. I have been looking at some desktop support jobs, and they are not only more rigid with hours, but pay less than what I make now. And we don't make a ton in EMS, that's for sure....

</comment><comment><USER61> I don't know yet, but after leaving my last job about 4 months ago, I'm thinking about getting out. My last job was great fun, but led me straight to Nowheresville, as the skills I was using are not in great demand. ~2 years of doing that and my other tech skills are basically obsolete. Nobody is even looking for Angular anymore, and the jobs I see that use a LAMP stack look terribly boring to me. I'm going to take a React class and try to get a roster of clients that will let me work remotely. I've been hesitating to do this, because I really do not enjoy building systems for the web anymore. The only saving grace would be working remotely.

<comment><USER62> Eh? I've had 3 Angular contracts in a row, the most recent started a couple months ago. Indeed shows over 500 openings in Chicago. I get the burnout, though. JS frameworks are just exhausting. I've been browsing Rust docs for the past hour, wondering if a side project would make the burnout better or worse.

</comment></comment><comment><USER63> I also had been in software for over a decade and was bored with most of the problems I needed to solve. I switched to security about a year and a half ago (largely pen testing) and I'm much happier. When I code, I care about the problems I'm solving. I also get to break things which is a lot of fun. Switching to security might be something to consider for you as well. It's a change, but it doesn't require huge pay cut or lifestyle change.

<comment><USER64> I've thought about this, as well as forensics. How did you present yourself to your first potential security employers?

</comment></comment><comment><USER65> I got burnt out doing JS apps development during the past 2 years. I got laid off and knew I did not want a desk job anymore.

I took what skills I had woodworking/web development and started a business. Its called Stump Crafters I build "stumps" to hammer nails in to its a pretty fun game and is not as dumb as it sounds. The game is in much the same vein as Cornhole, washers or other backyard games.

I even made a custom Node.js for a local meet-up group I go to often. [https://stumpcrafters.com/pages/custom](https://stumpcrafters.com/pages/custom)

I have not fully bailed on IT yet. But I don't think I will be touching any code in another few months.

Now I spend most of my time working in the shop and running the store. It's awesome.

Check it out at:

[https://stumpcrafters.com](https://stumpcrafters.com)

[https://facebook.com/stumpcrafters](https://facebook.com/stumpcrafters)

[https://instagram.com/stumpcrafters](https://instagram.com/stumpcrafters)

[https://twitter.com/stumpcrafters](https://twitter.com/stumpcrafters)

edit: Spelling

<comment><USER66> Your stumps reminded me of a challenge of skill called "hunker hauser". Might be a different audience/market for a similar product.

<comment><USER65> Thats looks like a lot of fun. I'm going to have to make a set and try it out.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER67> It's an idea I have entertained, maybe some day will pursue.

Those I know who have bailed out tended to go in three directions:

\- Teaching public school

\- Diving instructors

\- Owning a bar/restaurant in some touristy location

From observation, the teachers seem most fulfilled, and the divers seem to have the most fun.

<comment><USER68> We need some meta analysis done on these threads for sure )

</comment></comment><comment><USER69> To follow on from the little thread from my comment over there [0]...

I was getting far too jaded and cynical about the constant reinvention of the wheel that was never better, just different. Along with the ever increasing crap masquerading as the next must have with added lock-in. We have far too much stuff and need to make less. The dissonance had me feeling part of the problem not the solution.

I'm less wealthy, but the dot com bust taught me to be frugal (or starve). But I'm spending a lot less too. I'm orders of magnitude happier and satisfied. I feel like I'm doing something substantive and feel good about what I do. I have more options and interesting choices in how the second career develops than I expected. I feel fitter and healthier, and I get to see daylight rather more!

The idea of side project or two to keep my tech neurons active appeals, and after 3 years or so out, appeals rather more. If it makes some extra £ so much the better.

Overall probably the best thing I've ever done.

[0] [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13334774](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13334774)

</comment><comment><USER70> Went to medical school. It's about as much fun as going to medical school can be, but I'm much happier than I was in software (I think?).

<comment><USER71> How would you compare the two fields? What do you look forward to in medicine?

<comment><USER70> You know, this is a question I frequently ponder. I don't know if I have a good answer.

Interestingly, I think coming from a software background, where things are (generally) predictable and orderly, can help establish some of the most important foundations of practicing medicine. In writing software, we generally have a good idea about what's going to happen when we run our code. In medicine, we follow the same blueprint when approaching every patient. This ensures that we're both better able to recognize patterns when they are present, as well as making sure we are consistently thorough in collecting all the information necessary for a diagnosis.

There are also tremendous differences - probably the biggest is what could generally be called variability. In software, we generally want the product to run identically for every user - it is quite frustrating when it works differently on every computer. In medicine, we don't end up with much choice on the matter - everyone is different. And so we need to take those differences into account when we are formulating our diagnoses and are when we decide to prescribe (or not prescribe) a medication for a patient. I enjoy the challenge that this variability brings to the practice of medicine.

As a paramedic for many years now, I've had the pleasure of practicing (albeit in a very limited manner) medicine. I think what I most look forward to in becoming a physician is being at the top, directing patient care on a larger level. I also look forward to seeing more of a patient, rather than just the hour or so that it takes me to treat them and transport them to the hospital (unfortunately, paramedics in the USA are not yet look upon as definitive care). I hope to stay involved in prehospital medicine as a physician and help it grow to be considered a true career and as a source of definitive medicine.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER72> I'm not sure if this counts, because I quit before my career started. I learned programming in high school, ca. 1981, and I had a summer internship at a large data processing shop with an IBM 370 and several timesharing minicomputers. Also, my older brother was in the programming business, and I was able to look ahead to the typical CompSci coursework at the colleges in my area.

I loved programming, but it seemed like both the coursework and what programmers actually did for a living was pretty dull. Of course I wasn't exposed to the full range of possibilities, and it was just before the computer industry exploded, which nobody in my circle (parents, advisors etc.) predicted.

I went to college and majored in math. It seemed like the things that attracted me to programming were going on in the math and physics departments, so I was happy, and ended up with a physics degree. Today, I use programming as a problem solving tool, but have never held an actual IT job.

</comment><comment><USER73> My life since age 30 has been a slow odyssey away from a tech career.

After many years of software engineering, I switched to part-time in order to dabble in board game design on the side. It was fantastic - enough money to live comfortably, lots more free time - but also a little bit like golden handcuffs: in order to switch tech jobs, I'd have had to find another place OK with me working 3 days/week.

After doing that for 6-7 years, I talked it over with my wife and quit my tech job to do househusbanding instead. It got her more time (fewer chores) and me even more time (household work didn't take nearly the 30 hours/week that 3 days work + commute had), which let me ramp up the board game design. My wife works in tech, so one income was more than enough for us, even socking away plenty for retirement. It took some psychological adjustment on my part, but she was really good about vocally appreciating the work I did, which helped a lot with the transition. (Plus, I got to give a big middle finger to gender stereotypes, which was a source of satisfaction. :)

Then we decided to have kids, and I became a stay-at-home dad. Help from family and babysitters means I'm still able to spend some time pursuing game design (note: this is not cost-efficient - either "I parent full-time" or "daycare" would be cheaper - but it works for us, for now), and parenting is fantastic. Also frequently exhausting and frustrating - there's a heavy tradeoff of immediate-gratification happiness for life-arc happiness - <USER3> very rewarding, and the sound of my kids laughing together is pretty much the best thing in the world.

I still love programming, I just don't do it much. (Little side projects for fun every once in a while, or simple tools supporting my game design.) And I think I enjoy it more when I do, because I'm doing it intermittently of my own volition. Once both kids are in school and I have a little more time, I'll probably start messing around with mobile development - I find it slightly disconcerting to look at a computing device and not have the bone-deep certainty that if I chose to invest the time, I could make it do just about anything I dreamed up.

With financial reasons as your main barrier to quitting the industry, much of my experience won't apply to you - my wife's salary is the only reason things work as they currently do. But if you can fix your budget so that you can live (and save!) on 40-80% of your current income, you can try to find/make opportunities to switch to part-time work. I found that when I did, the benefits of the extra free time made me more focused during my working hours, and happiness with my life situation made me more excited about my job in general.

</comment><comment><USER74> I took a 5 year journey into grad school and finance. Came back to tech on the services side. I found my programming skills got dated very quickly, but it's been fun learning new things on the side of my day job.

One suggestion - look into new domains to apply your tech skills.

</comment><comment><USER75> i quit the industry for nearly a decade in my mid 20s. i went to work in the film industry in various on set roles (carpenter, painter, setdec, grip). i got to the point where i was mostly middle management and the hours were long and the money good-but-inconsistent so i got back into programming and returned to dev full time 2.5 years ago

i don't regret leaving dev but i'm also glad i returned

</comment><comment><USER76> I quit high tech in 2001 and got my masters in education. I taught science in the East Bay - across from San Francisco.

I ended up going back to high tech. Teaching took too much out of me - emotionally. In no way do I regret the move to teach - it was a vital piece of my growth as a person. Plus, I am still in touch with some of my former students, including a young woman that my wife and I helped get through nursing school.

As I get older I tend to approach things differently - I dare say better? The passion I felt towards technology in my 20s has changed. What I bring to my career in my 40's is more personal and meaningful now. It's about doing good work that I can be proud of with people who treat one another with kindness and respect. It's still important for me to love the products I am are building, but my reasons for loving them are broader than they used to be.

</comment><comment><USER77> A friend worked in software dev for a city in the area, for a few years. He left that job to become a professional photographer. I think he's been doing that on and off for at least the last 5 years. He's doing that, but also some software work.

He seems happy. He bought a house for his wife and son. At least from the outside, he seems to be doing well.

<comment><USER67> I've never understood how photography is still a viable career. Everyone is a photographer nowadays, and everyone takes good pictures, just look at Instagram!

Maybe if they niche, wedding or something?

<comment><USER77> Phones take "good enough" pictures, but not great pictures. Instagram filters are fun, but kind of crap (this applies to algorithmic image enhancement in general, IMO, at least to the extent that every algorithm has inputs that it'll do badly with). There's a jump in quality from most of the pictures that non-professionals take, to the quality of images produced by people who know what they're doing.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER78> Point of order - most of us don't work in IT. We work in "tech."

I love my IT brethren but not all of us do desktop installs and tech support for a living.

<comment><USER79> Hear, hear! I left "Enterprise IT" and went into embedded systems. The first 2-3 years were exciting and exhausting because it felt like I needed to recall everything I ever learned from my Comp. Sci. education and from my early career -- I had to became a real software engineer again. Rather than some application on a framework on a virtual instance....it's now board bringup, bootloaders, and kernels. I now love my career again, and the work I do is far more challenging and interesting than any IT assignment. More power to those who do it, but no more Hibernate mappings or soupe-du-jour frameworks for me!

<comment><USER80> I spent some time in embedded space after high school and really miss it in these days of drawing pretty pictures on whiteboards to attempt to explain exactly why management can't have what they want when they want it, political negotiations with people that hold the keys to the kingdom (e.g. salesforce admins) to try to be allowed to do my job, etc.

Do you have any recommendations for someone trying to get into tech engineering and out of Enterprise IT in regards to credentials they should seek out, groups in their city they should look into?

<comment><USER79> Yup, you're in that world. Sympathies!

It's good you have the background -- that's what you can leverage. Maybe start playing around with a Raspberry Pi for a refresher on the HW and basic software, and go from there. I jumped into it by learning Android from the inside out (via AOSP), and was then fortunate to then be forced to learn it more deeply via client who needed a customized version for their new hardware. This was not according to a grand plan of mine though -- I was just so done with IT that it felt worth the risk. I lowered my hourly rates by 50% for one year in order to get a gig in that space. I looked at the loss as an investment in education. If I didn't make it happen within one year then I'd consider going back to what I had been doing. Paying for food+shelter is a great motivator (the carrot), but the horrible thought of "going back" to IT was even more motivating (the stick).

As for the above, YMMV of course. Good luck!

<comment><USER81> My current contract as a web developer is up at the end of the month and I want to go into more freelancing and have embedded projects in the future. I usually use side projects to learn initially. In this case I'm working on a Weather Sensor.

[http://kokonautweathersensors.com/](http://kokonautweathersensors.com/) [https://www.instagram.com/kokonautweathersensors/](https://www.instagram.com/kokonautweathersensors/)

I think it's pretty successful so far, but it's all new territory in finding work in embedded systems and even harder representing myself (Been doing full- time and contracts for the last 6 years. Would like to fully represent myself as a development shop as soon as possible). Any advice?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER82> osteopathic medicine, high problem solving to meeting ratio - must like people, financially a lifetime wash due to cost of education

</comment><comment><USER83> Travel the world. Read Hacker News.

</comment><comment><USER84> purchased a c-store. loosing money, working my ass off. weather is a problem, landlord isn't fixing equipment fast enough (latest is our UPC scanner has been down since Christmas, every day I hear, 'it's been ordered' Well, yea? what's the tracking #) I'm rather stuck and short on capitol. It's tied up in Real Estate which, listing agent hasn't shown the property once in 4+ months. It's going to hell. :-( I fucked up. Nobody will hire an old geek. Not sure what's next.

</comment><comment><USER85> I quit the industry, but IT doesn't know yet or maybe IT just can't tell the difference. Pretty much my karma goes up and down as I correct strangers on HN.</comment>


The Joy of Linux Desktop Environments - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@steven_ovadia/the-joy-of-linux-desktop-environments-365d6cc8de72 <comment><USER2> One not-so-unrelated thing I really love about linux is that the "configuration" for just about every application is stored in plain-text files, mostly in the user's home directory. Which means we can use git to version control them (like many many people do - the dotfiles trend).

You can have a log of configuration changes for your system, you can have various profiles with branches, etc. Want to switch to a different profile? Just `git checkout <branch-name>`, done! Want to revert some change, or see how your PC looked like 2 months ago? `git log` and `git checkout` your way through!

I currently have all my configurations[1] in a dotfiles directory representing the home directory (same directory structure etc.) and symlinks to them in the actual home directory. Very easy to manage.

[1]: [https://github.com/awalGarg/dotfiles](https://github.com/awalGarg/dotfiles)

<comment><USER3> For every person loving those plain texts, there are one that want to see them purged from existence. Observe how Gnome has basically recreated the registry, complete with hidden magic switches...

<comment><USER4> The Gnome stack is horrible. I long ago started questioning the sanity of the devs when they tried to build an entire office suite in C. Start any Gnome/GTK app and it will continously spew assertion failed log messages at you. Gnome has also forced certain standards, e.g. Network Manager when superior alternatives exist (the excellent Connman).

<comment><USER5> I'm stuck in GNOME -- any advice on breaking free is appreciated!

<comment><USER6> First, replace the core GNOME apps you use most frequently with lighter alternatives. Take it easy, do it one at a time. Try rxvt-unicode instead of gnome-terminal. Try Thunar or Dolphin or an mc clone instead of Nautilus.

There's a lot of non-obvious configuration options in the X11 stack. An .Xresources file can select better fonts, tweak hinting so they look fantastic, and change settings and color themes for many X applications. Out of the box, many X applications look like obsolete garbage, but they can be lightweight, functional, and awesome looking at the same time with a little configuration and love.

After getting your core apps sorted, consider an alternate DE/WM. I personally love the gaps fork of i3. XFCE is nice if you still want DE functionality.

I personally dual boot Debian Stretch and Gentoo ~amd64 - sharing a home partition. I keep Debian more or less stock on GNOME, while I rice the hell out of Gentoo with i3 and no systemd.

Check out [https://reddit.com/r/unixporn](https://reddit.com/r/unixporn) for inspiration and ideas.

<comment><USER7> All you need to do is install XFCE. It has a great terminal, a solid file manager, a compositing WM, and easy configuration. I don't bother setting things up piecemeal or fiddling with .Xresources any more.

Also, it would be great if we could stop using "rice" as an adjective. Even if you don't find it offensive, some people do.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Edit: Can the downvoter explain their reason?

My personal favorite is the LXDE / Lubuntu 16.04 setup.

All my subjective opinion, of course:

\- Sits in the sweet spot for bare bones distro vs batteries included.

\- Without decorations, I have essentially borderless applications, that I can quickly toggle the titlebars etc.

\- Kept sane keyboard shortcuts and did not remove them for some arbitrary reasons. Here's a random nitpick, why do some interfaces no longer allow you to press a single letter on the keyboard to launch an option from a menu, example: An option from the list of options in the File menu?

\- Very fast, allows a great battery life, all of ubuntu packages and ubuntu community support/troubleshooting, very easy to customize if you need to.

I love it because it is an OS that stays out of my way, has a sane setup out of the box and looks awesome with the borderless windows.

It is perfect in almost every way! I'm worried about their plans to switch to LXQt. It's almost like how Ubuntu 10.10 was IMHO, the pinnacle of perfection, sane choices etc, and then they decide to start all over again.

<comment><USER9> Only thing I dislike about Lubuntu is losing Mac keyboard shortcuts and hardware, a lot of them I managed to replicate and even found a (slightly unstable) Alfred alternative called Albert [1]. My Magic Mouse 2 could only work like a dumb mouse.

I turned off the tray at the bottom, the window borders and set apps to start full screen, switching between full screen apps was much nicer than what remains after Apple closed off whatever Total Spaces was using. It ended up being a really productive way to work due to the lack of distraction like crap software from Apple, Adobe, 1Password, iTerm etc endlessly begging for 5 minutes so you can watch their updates download. Or all the other notifications that mostly don't need to be read or exist.

[1] [http://www.howopensource.com/2015/03/launcher-for-ubuntu- lin...](http://www.howopensource.com/2015/03/launcher-for-ubuntu-linux/)

<comment><USER10> That's probably my favorite thing about Macs. The unix/emacs-like keybindings like C-f, C-b, C-n, C-p to move the cursor, C-c to kill a process in the terminal, etc and the Windows-like keybindings like ⌘-c, ⌘-v, ⌘-x for copy, paste, cut, ⌘-n for new window, etc both exist by default without colliding. I can get this on Linux if I spend a week remapping things but not by default. As far as I can tell, there's no way to get this on Windows.

<comment><USER11> The Unix/emacs-like keybindings _are_ great, aren't they? They're included in the default bindings of the Cocoa text system, and, though I wasn't able to find references to it in the limited searching I did, it's not so surprising given that OS X comes from NeXTSTEP which was a Unix-based system. I did find that you can change these keybindings as well.[0][1] Pretty, cool, eh?

Minor pendantic nit: ⌘-C, ⌘-V, ⌘-X originate with Apple, so referring to them as "Windows-like" is backwards.[2] Like I said, minor, eh? Normally I'd suggest alternative wording in the interest of providing constructive criticism, but I'm too lazy to do so right now, so feel free to disregard :)

[0]: [https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/Co...](https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/EventOverview/TextDefaultsBindings/TextDefaultsBindings.html)

[1]: [http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~jrus/site/cocoa- text.html](http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~jrus/site/cocoa-text.html)

[2]: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cut,_copy,_and_paste#Populariz...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cut,_copy,_and_paste#Popularization)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I recently tried to use Linux (Ubuntu 16.10) as my primary desktop and failed again. I tried yearly since year 2000. But again in late 2016 I switched back to Windows (10) and MacOs. Driver support is getting better but so are my expectations and Linux (well Ubuntu) doesn't seem to catch up fast enough. For instance I failed having my dual graphic cards be used in extended mode with the my native laptop screen and an external HDMI screen monitor. My bluetooth headset has a hard time being recognized by the OS I have to retry many times. And I cannot have sound through on my monitor connected to HDMI output of my Nvidia graphical card. Maybe I used the wrong distro, but all these issues are non-existent when I switch to Windows 10. Linux desktop is getting better but is still a painful experience when used with non common setup.

<comment><USER13> > Linux desktop is getting better but is still a painful experience when used > with non common setup.

Indeed every time I think of getting a new laptop or desktop, I try to do research into how well Linux will run on the hardware. Thankfully there seem to be a decent number of laptops that have Linux preinstalled now.

As much as I enjoy tinkering, even after using Linux for a while I still don't have a strong understanding of how things work, and it's frustrating to be forced to tinker when my intention was to get things done.

Perhaps I need to dedicate more time to understanding how things work?

<comment><USER14> I had the same opinion of Linux as you. I didn't want to tinker with it and get everything working well.

Just install Ubuntu. Ignore everyone saying Ubuntu is a kiddy OS ("All you need is X, Y, Z-ix"). Ubuntu is Linux Windows (not really, but it is pretty hard to mess up).

<comment><USER15> Linux Mint rocks for ease of setup and use.

<comment><USER16> Unfortunately Linux Mint does not track security issues or issue security updates. That alone is reason enough to avoid it completely, but then when you add in their server breach and the way they handled it...

Stick with Debian and Ubuntu. And more Debian, going forward.

<comment><USER15> I get security updates pretty soon after they're released on the Debian mailing list, actually. Logging on this morning I have an update for the gstreamer issues.

I use Debian for servers though.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> One thing I noticed about installing multiple desktop environment on Ubuntu: they all have different default apps that are always installed. So when you have two desktop environments, you end up with 2 different terminals, 2 different file browsers, 2 different archive managers etc. You could uninstall apps that have the exact same purpose, but it would be nice if there was a formal way for DEs to recognize and acknowledge the existence of another DE.

 _Rant:_ When I first wrapped my head around the concept of a desktop environment, the first thought that came to mind was: why don't Microsoft and Apple abandon their proprietary OSes and just build and maintain a solid desktop environment for Linux and the BSDs. It would save them a ton of money, resources, developers, it would improve security. The major drawback was porting the apps written for their OSes to Linux and BSDs, which was a deal breaker. Then came the announcement of Windows subsystem for Linux, first thought: incredible engineering feat but MS did the exact opposite of what I would have wanted, which was a Linux subsystem for Windows. It would have solved the issue of porting Windows apps to Linux. Now I am beginning to realize that all decisions technical or not, are just ugly politics with nice explanations to make the decisions seem like the right thing to do.

<comment><USER3> > ugly politics with nice explanations

And why in the long run OSS will be subverted because it exists to strip free software of politics...

<comment><USER18> It seems like the endless iteration of OSS stripping some politics, then someone taking it and adding different politics, which makes someone else do an OSS version without _that_ politics, etc.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> For all interested, there is a really nice thread on reddit for showing off your desktop configuration [1]. There really are some master-pieces there.

1: [https://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn/](https://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn/)

<comment><USER20> Pretty really isn't the problem and hasn't been for a very long time. You can make Linux IMHO prettier than a Mac or Windows pretty easily.

The problem is having to tinker. Tinkering is fine if you've got the time and enjoy it, but if you just need your computer to always "just work" this is a problem. Both Linux and Windows strike out for me here. I use a Mac because I almost never have to mess with it... I mean sometimes a _year_ can go by between times when I have to actually mess with my machine. Nothing else does that.

<comment><USER21> I'm not sure why you think you "have to tinker". I run Ubuntu 14.04 and use i3 window manager. I haven't "tinkered" with the setup in about a year-and-a- half, dating back to when I installed i3 shortly after I got the my last computer. The default Unity DE is nice, too. I don't use it, but I could have used it all this time, can't imagine what "tinkering" would be required.

<comment><USER22> I'll bite:

I have to tinker all the time because hw compatibility still sucks. Wifi, sound, video-cards often require tinkering to get them working, especially after upgrading. They are a lot better than they used to be, but they still have a ways to go.

<comment><USER21> I've had zero driver issues on my Asus UX305 laptop. Even if I had, those issues are generally solved once on installation, not continually tinkered with.

<comment><USER22> Congratulations I guess?

I've had quite a few computers that didn't have any problems and worked right out of the box. That doesn't mean there aren't still problems with other computers.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Tiling window managers like i3 seem to allow the perfect mixture of terminal and graphics. After spending some time using i3 I've noticed (when using for work, etc.)that desktop environments universally seem extremely inefficient and slow. For certain types of tasks a mouse is essential, but being forced to use it for nearly everything in OSX seems like a massive waste of time. I'd like to see a study on efficiency among proficient users of desktop environments and proficient users of WM. Users who view themselves as fluent in an OSX desktop environment and users who view themselves as fluent in a WM(say i3) probably spend different amounts of time executing the same tasks. IMO not having to use the mouse as frequently seems like a tremendous efficiency booster.

<comment><USER24> What I do is run a tiling window manager inside a desktop environment. XMonad inside Gnome is what I'm using right now. For 95% of what I do every day I'm just using the keyboard but when I do something unusual there's still the friendlyish GUI to take care of it.

On Ubuntu it's just a matter of

      sudo apt-add-repository ppa:gekkio/xmonad
      sudo apt-get update
      sudo apt-get install gnome-session-xmonad

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> I remember when I discovered Unix as a college freshman (HP-UX with CDE), I spent way too much time fiddling with the desktop settings. For a while I even ran a buggy Enlightenment because _wow_ was it pretty.

I loved trying out new visual styles. I spent so much time on wallpapers.

It took me years before I realized that what I really wanted to optimize was app layout. Any screen space that wasn't used by an app was wasted space. Space I could use to have a few extra lines in a terminal, a few extra columns of code...

I used AwesomeWM for a few years because I loved its concept of "tagging" windows which let you mix-and-match which you were displaying at a given time (this is my "all code" setting, that's my "all terms", and this is my "some code some term..."). Now I'm on macOS and I dearly miss it.

Anyhow, I haven't looked at a desktop wallpaper in years, and I like my window decorations as minimalistic as possible.

<comment><USER26> I'm in the same boat, I used AwesomeWM for several years, before switching to OSX around 2010, just because the Mac hardware was superior to just about everything else, but I always felt crippled in the window manager. iTerm2 + tmux can get close, but switching to the browser never "fit" in that flow.

A few weeks ago I switched back to Linux on a NUC, and its like I've come home again.

<comment><USER25> Which NUC? I've been eyeing one for a while, and am always looking for recommendations :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment> yoz-y I do not subscribe to the idea that it is a good thing to switch from one DE to another for specific tasks. I think it is better to learn one, master it and stick to it. Otherwise time that should be spent working is spent on tinkering with the DE.

<comment><USER3> Well the idea is supposedly that if you get your DE/WM just the way you want it, you can be more productive.

Various people have a love for tiling WMs because they can navigate and organize things with the keyboard.

<comment><USER27> > get your DE/WM just the way you want it, you can be more productive

Does that ever actually occur? My vimrc changes almost on a daily basis, and I'm frequently changing plugins, writing new tools, and creating new aliases all time time. And that's just for my terminal.

Having to repeat some of those modifications 3-4 times because I'm using a slightly different terminal app for each individual task would, I think, drive me batty.

<comment><USER28> > Does that ever actually occur? My vimrc changes almost on a daily basis, and > I'm frequently changing plugins, writing new tools, and creating new aliases > all time time. And that's just for my terminal.

Don't take it the wrong way, but that sounds like a personal problem ;-)

If I were changing my configuration files that often, I would start looking for an environment that worked better for me.

My config editing is approximately logarithmic. There's a bunch when I start using new software (or start using old software in a new environment), but it slows down quickly as time goes by. Nowadays, I _might_ make a big change to my .emacs once a year, and maybe tweak a variable or keyboard shortcut once every 3 months or so, but generally it doesn't change much. Same with all my other config files.

<comment><USER21> >Don't take it the wrong way, but that sounds like a personal problem

Yes, and in addition one that exists regardless of what OS/WM/DE you're running, since Vim and Emacs configuraion works basically the same whatever platform they're on.

<comment><USER3> And now i wonder if this is a contributing factor to a certain big name DE stripping out options...

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> Although this blog entry is entirely about desktop interfaces, he does mention that

> ...Windows, OS X, iOS, and Android, have one common interface...

This is true for the first three without significant modification, but it isn't true for Android. One of my favorite things about Android when I had it was the ability to choose a launcher right from the app store. You can completely change your home screen interface with a downloadable app, and it's actually much easier to do than it is on linux last time I checked.

For desktops I agree, Linux has the most customization when it comes to the interface. But on Android, it's just as customizable as a Linux desktop(I mean... it is Linux after all).

<comment><USER30> I agree mostly, but

> on Android, it's just as customizable as a Linux desktop

I wouldn't say is true. For android launchers to be functionally equivalent to (or as customizable as) linux DEs, they'd have to be able to customize android's nav bar, pull-down menu, settings app, recents menu, and split screen/tiling/windowing. At the moment, these are all handled at the OS level. Not that android's launcher concept isn't cool, but it's definitely not as flexible as DEs.

<comment><USER29> I agree, the launcher isn't as customizable as a linux desktop. To change the entirety of a linux user interface is much easier on a linux desktop. But nonetheless, Android is still quite customizable, and the other interfaces you mentioned (nav bar, pull down menu, etc) are still customizable if you're able to flash a custom ROM. It's all possible, but desktop Linux is much easier to fiddle around with in that manner.

Nonetheless, I think Android should've been left out of that group in the OP. Not a big deal, but for someone who used to tinker with Android quite a bit, I couldn't resist commenting the point.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> > If you're using Windows, you're pretty much stuck with the Windows > interface. The menus are always going to be in the same place and while you > can do things, like change your desktop image and your colors and themes, > you're still limited in how you interact with your computer.

I'm not so sure about that. I used winblinds years ago for XP. Not surprised to learn that they're still around.

[http://www.stardock.com/products/](http://www.stardock.com/products/)

<comment><USER3> There used to be a bunch of alternatives to explorer.exe (yep, the very same damned .exe as the file explorer), but its been ages since i played with them. They all had quirks and issues, as best i recall.

<comment><USER32> Litestep used to be very sleek at one point. I've used it for an year or two without any problems.

<comment><USER33> I remember making themes (and even a "distro") for litestep when I was in highschool. Good times.

The best shell I ever used for Windows in terms of productivity was a blackbox variant, xoblite ([http://xoblite.net/](http://xoblite.net/)).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER34> I think even more importantly, Linux allows DEs and WMs to do practically anything they want. The window manager i3 simply is not possible on OSX. OSX tiling window managers use the accessibility API as a hack, and it's just not very good at all.

I can't even begin to express how much I love i3. I literally switched from OSX just for i3, it's made me that much more efficient, focused, less frustrated and allows me to use my ultrawide monitor to its fullest potential.

</comment><comment><USER35> I get to experience the joy of not having a desktop environment; of using a bare WM, the shell, and 30-year-old Unix skills to work with my system.

It's a good feeling.

<comment><USER36> I've been going through a similar experience over the last few years, mostly driven by my hardware getting older and not handling the requirements of modern DE's (when I'd prefer the resource to be used for applications).

It's nice stripping back to the original structures, though it does feel like computer archaeology sometimes. There's a lot of services in the upper layers that have to be switched off to get back to plain .xinitrc and Xresources!

On the upside, I know my configuration and it's all in a repository now!

<comment><USER35> Except I never actually got on board with KDE or GNOME. Command line, .xinitrc, and .Xresources were my jam lo these many years.

When I first tried Linux in the 90s it was already less of a pain than Windows. Why would I want to reinstate all that Windows-like cruft to be at most 0% more productive than I was without it?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> That is one of the reasons i like Linux very much! Still, bspwm is my favoriete because i van everything togheter as i want :) And a tilingwm is increasing my workflow! Still considering to leave osx (or called macOS these days) behind. But there is still the osx only software problem.

</comment><comment><USER38> In the environment I'm in, my Linux home directory is shared by multiple systems. Most are CentOS 6, but we're starting to use CentOS 7, too. I'm using the default Gnome 2 Desktop on 6, but Mate Desktop on 7, as I don't like Gnome 3 or the "Classic" option. I can't point to any specifics at the moment, but I've had what I think are issues of these desktops stepping on each other. Being able to switch between DEs is nice, but they have to play nicely with each other and I'm not sure that's always true.

I also maintain some Solaris 10 systems and that's a whole other set of issues, sharing a home directory across different "unix family" systems.

<comment><USER39> If in this case you've a /home that is an NFS mount shared across several nodes running different *nix or even Linux distros then yes, that is a problem.

Centos6 will have different Gnome versions than Centos7. However, both will write in ~/.gnome, possibly .gtk, or .gtk-3.0 or wherever the hell they write to these days.

Better to share your data through an nfs share in /data instead of /home and take the pain of not having the exact Desktop across different nodes. Or to create a homogenous environment with only Centos7 for example.

<comment><USER38> I'm beginning to think that's the right approach. Or, have a minimal home directory with a .bashrc that sets $HOME at login to an appropriate sub directory. Might not be too robust...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER40> If there is one distro i have to recommend it's Solus. I'm usually not a fan of new distro xyz were not much except the wallpaper changed. But Solus is build from scratch and questions many old linux dogmas. It also focuses on the desktop and is probably one of the fastest distros with a great OOTB experience. It also has a very high velocity were every time you look there are new amazing improvements

</comment><comment><USER41> I'm more productive when using GNOME, to me is the most usable DE out there.

<comment><USER42> Some design choices for GNOME simply escape me. By default, no window buttons (i.e. active windows) on the top panel. By default, no maximize/minimize buttons for windows. Who could possibly find that user-friendly?

<comment><USER43> > no maximize/minimize buttons for windows

why do you use the maximize / minimize buttons? If you're just trying to see a different app, wouldn't alt+tab do the same thing?

> no window buttons (i.e. active windows) on the top panel

why do you need to see a running list of everything that's open in your face at all times? it seems to me like the only time you should need this information is when you're switching apps. you can also see this information by pressing the Super (aka Windows) key. also, afaik i3 doesn't show you all of the running applications at once either, but no one ever complains about that.

<comment><USER16> > why do you use the maximize / minimize buttons?

To maximize and minimize windows?

> If you're just trying to see a different app, wouldn't alt+tab do the same > thing?

Can you alt+tab with a mouse?

> why do you need to see a running list of everything that's open in your face > at all times?

A taskbar at the edge of the screen is "in your face"? What if the panel auto- hides?

> it seems to me like the only time you should need this information is when > you're switching apps.

And by hiding that information, you add an extra step to the process. The one- step "click on taskbar button" becomes the two-step "activate the window list, click on window button".

> i3 doesn't show you all of the running applications at once either, but no > one ever complains about that.

That's because people who use i3 don't want that feature. People who do don't use it.

GNOME _used_ to have it, but threw it away--along with many other features.

Why is it so hard to understand that not everyone uses their computer the same way you do?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER44> This year my MacbookPro died (battery exploded). Since I was frustrated with Apple's lack of support for this extreme case and the fact that the new models can't be repaired, I bought an Asus UX305LA and loaded Ubuntu onto it.

I have used Ubuntu at work for a few years but this was the first time I went with Linux at home.

For the most part, I love it! The whole OS seems to be really light on resources and the UI is pretty nice these days. It also passes a critical test, which is when I hand my laptop to a non-technical friend they don't even notice it's running anything uncommon. Chrome is Chrome I guess :-)

One thing that kills me is the fact that Linux is basically left in the dust when it comes to media on the web. I can't watch HBO Go, installing Flash player requires a PhD, and many websites just tell you to go away for using an "unsupported operating system".

<comment><USER16> > Chrome is Chrome...installing Flash player requires a PhD

Huh? Chrome has Flash built-in, and for everything else, just `apt-get install flashplugin-installer`.

</comment></comment><comment><USER45> Ubuntu has turned into this franken-beast that is simply not cutting it for me anymore.

Right from the installer (that doesn't work well on XPS 13 with name) to Unity to Mir.

Fedora 24 has been brilliant and works awesome out of the box. I am constantly recommending F24 to people and have never had a bad experience.

<comment><USER4> Ubuntu are playing a (very long) game. If they manage it, IMHO they'll be in a better place than Fedora's UI which is built on a stack that increasingly only Redhat will continue to develop.

<comment><USER45> Just like systemd, Wayland and the kernel right ?

Are you aware that Redhat actually employs most of the kernel devs ?

Ubuntu does not have the "people's stack" ... It's just another company building a stack that is not as good.

<comment><USER36> Are you aware that the whole of the development resource (people) across the _entire_ free software desktop would fit into a reasonable size conference room? Versus, say the size of the development teams on proprietary systems such as Windows?

So, what is the point of trying to divide the community of people all trying to work towards similar(ish) goals - the improvement of the alternative desktops - rather than focusing on how they are part of the same thing? It doesn't improve the likelihood of achieving the goal of a "better" desktop.

You are literally stood in a room with 10 people trying to demonstrate how 2 of them are better than the other 8. It's an exercise in pointlessness, makes the free software community unfriendly and sets up fake academic wars [0].

Note: I previously worked for Canonical so have bias, I know people at RedHat and other open source companies. I have had the opinion that this sort of stupid divisionism stuff is bad for FOSS for at least 10 years.

[0] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayre's_law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayre's_law)

<comment><USER45> I apologize if I came off as an ass. I was ticked off by Redhat being painted as the BigBadCo and Canonical being painted as the little-guy-who-could.

I have the greatest of respect for anyone who has ever contributed a single line to Linux - more than anywhere else, your works really impacts countries like India.

I am not sure why there is this impression. I would be lying if I didn't think so myself.

<comment><USER36> @sandGorgon thanks for apologising, I really appreciate anyone taking a moment to reconsider their underlying assumptions and thinking.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER46> I used to love the choice after being limited by Windows but it meant all the development and design efforts were split between different desktop environments so mixing apps from different desktop systems was an awkward user experience.

I preferred KDE the most but I never understood the obsession with the number of customisation options. These surely slowed down development and it felt like you had to be the UX designer yourself instead of sensible defaults behind chosen.

Now I just want something with minimal customisation with decent defaults so I know it won't suddenly break when I have to get some work done.

<comment><USER36> > Now I just want something with minimal customisation with decent defaults so > I know it won't suddenly break when I have to get some work done.

The difficulty is that one persons "sensible default" is anothers "crazy terrible default". Particularly in the Linux world, fuelled by it being committed hobbyists who create much of the desktop software and the tradition of UNIX configurability.

</comment></comment><comment><USER47> Waiting for KDE to switch to Wayland at last. The progress is slow, but steady: [http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/](http://blog.martin- graesslin.com/blog/)

Some major applications are still behind. For instance Firefox: [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=635134](https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=635134)

</comment><comment><USER48> The freedom of using a variety of desktop environments, and the ability to customise them down to the source code, is what got me interested in Linux in the first place.

Back in 2003, I was experimenting with Rainmeter and a port of Blackbox for Windows, but became quickly frustrated about their limitations. I spent an embarassing amount of time trying out the different window managers, before settling on KDE 3.

There's a downside, however: fragmentation.

</comment><comment><USER49> Oh the joy ...

[https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CustomXSession](https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CustomXSession)

</comment><comment><USER50> I wish one of the major Linux distributions would double down on design as a core priority (as in, bring in designers and give them serious pull). I'd kill for a beautiful, opinionated, and novel Linux desktop environment.

<comment><USER51> >as in, bring in designers

That's the mistake. You bring in UX experts (who also happened to understand your primary users)

Graphics design != UX

<comment><USER3> > who also happened to understand your primary users

That would be the hard part...

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER52> The only problem will be having a dozen of calculators, control centers, text editors, terminal emulators, and file browsers installed on your computer, to the point you have to hunt for the correct program.

</comment><comment><USER53> Speaking of window managers - is there a successor/branch of scwm (Scheme Constrained Window Manager) that is being maintained currently? I loved how that worked...

</comment><comment><USER54> Unity tip: Use the windows key + number to start or switch between programs. Then when you've learned the keys you can hide the menu bar.

</comment><comment><USER55> I love Gnome 3. Just wanted to pitch that! Didn't used to, but the extension system, as it matures, is making Gnome 3 awesome!

</comment><comment><USER56> Has anyone got a comment on his book, mentioned in the article, Learn Linux in a Month of Lunches? Good, ok, not good...?

</comment><comment><USER57> Nice article, but what's wrong with that page? ublock reports 409 requests blocked and increasing...

<comment><USER58> You can click on the uBlock icon and open the logger (little icon that looks like a window with lines) to see which requests are being blocked. I'm seeing xhr's to [https://collector- medium.lightstep.com/api/v0/reports](https://collector- medium.lightstep.com/api/v0/reports) being blocked every few seconds. Probably some medium analytics request.

</comment></comment><comment><USER59> I was a pretty big fan of the LiteStep desktop environment for windows... very configurable.

</comment><comment><USER60> Cargo cultism is alive and well! So many _feelings_ of variety! 2016 is the year of the linux desktop, just like 2015, 2014, 2013...

So many options of ways to lay out windows but fewer than half the actual applications creative professionals need to do their job, so we're still stuck on Mac or Windows.

<comment><USER36> But, the reality is that "creative professionals" have very few reasons to change platforms as Mac/Windows satisfises [0] them. This means they don't contribute to making alternative platforms better for their use-case.

Second, professional Linux development is focused on the server. No-one is really paid on the desktop side to create applications for creative professionals [1]. Most of the applications are created by "hobbyist" developers whose target audience is themselves.

This means no-one is really contributing to what "creative professionals" want.

The Linux desktop works for me perfectly, it's been the year of the Linux desktop since 1996 - but then I'm not a 'creative professional' or an 'accounting professional' etc etc.

[0] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisficing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisficing) [1] Creative professionals are a more difficult segment than general users because they have high expectations of the platform and specific applications/use-cases.

</comment></comment><comment><USER61> At first I thought this was a sarcastic post.

</comment><comment><USER62> I think the core of the argument about linux is not about having a well designed system that works well, but that it should be an american technology that dominates, and not anything that is managed by a non american, especially if he is against corporatism and tend to do things in a way that can be perceived as arrogant.

So basically, linux will not prosper as long as it is not in the interest of the US.

<comment><USER63> Linux is extremely successful though, just not on the desktop.</comment></comment>


A Day at the Stupid Shit No One Needs and Terrible Ideas Hackathon - <AUTHOR> http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/a19330/a-day-at-the-stupid-hackathon-2016/ <comment><USER2> After going to a few hackathons, I observed a trend of mostly useless, tech- bubble oriented products developed. So I had the idea of a marketplace style site where people would talk about their problems, and simultaneously provide ideas for hackathon hackers. Then hackers would visit the site for ideas, and if they build a solution, they get users immediately--the people who were subscribed to that problem. This would also hopefully channel all that hacker power into useful products. Does anyone think that's worth building?

<comment><USER3> The New Zealand Government did. There was a Hackathon last weekend around a bunch of problems that various government departments wanted to have solved.

The people at the hackathon have has a week since to get their teams together and pitches for the next stage.

The pitches are to the government department CEs, so people just under the ministers.

If the pitch is accepted, then we get 3 months (paid) to be put though a Tech Accelerator (run by CreativeHQ) in Wellington and get the application in a state to be used. During which time the teams will form companies, get advice for how to run things, and have the government departments domain experts on hand to answer any questions we need and get feedback from them.

At the end we get to demo our solutions to the departments. If they like them, then they will licence the results, and we have a bunch of new tech companies in New Zealand, with an existing cash flow.

Seriously, this is it done right. Small companies / groups of developers (and designers, etc) get chances at solving problems which would normally go to the big guys in the industry.

My team is presenting their pitch (Machine learning to help route problem tickets in various call centres) just after lunch today - I'm nervous as all hell :)

\--- Blair

<comment><USER4> That sounds excellent, I wish there were something like it in the UK.

Good luck with your pitch.

<comment><USER5> There was Job Hack last October, though I didn't hear about anything coming out of it.

[https://www.gov.uk/government/news/join-the-job-hack-and- hel...](https://www.gov.uk/government/news/join-the-job-hack-and-help-shape- the-future-of-a-generation)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> From the early days of Hacker News, termites as a service.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34423](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34423)

<comment><USER7> Gives me an Animal Crossing vibe xD

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> How do you vet these things without stifling creativity and accidental serendipity? You don't. You have to take the mostly shit ideas and eventually one sticks even if it sticks like shit. The vetting will have a detrimental effect of the types who can even come in the door AND it assumes people know what works or what doesn't which is the overall illusion we have of "great ideas" that's why great ideas are only hindsight unless they are like inventing cheap fission or anti-gravity. Technology is evolutionary, meaning we don't control evolution, it just happens based on the environment, aka the mob's choice. Maybe pan handling robots spin off to charity assisting robots or social fart sharing turns out to be valuable health data? We don't know unless its obviously popular. The messier the better.

</comment><comment><USER9> I really liked their summary site [http://www.stupidhackathon.com/](http://www.stupidhackathon.com/) the "holding" app cracked me up.

<comment><USER10> I love the project categories. "Monetizing children" is a personal favorite.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> A lot of these project could easily qualify as contemporary art..

<comment><USER12> That's no surprise: the event was hosted at ITP ([http://tisch.nyu.edu/itp](http://tisch.nyu.edu/itp)) which is a technological art program at NYU. Many of the participants were current students or researchers there.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> NSFW if you scroll far enough on the actual stupid hackathon website. Oops.

</comment><comment><USER14> absolutely wonderful! the list of projects on the site is definitely worth a visit. [http://www.stupidhackathon.com/](http://www.stupidhackathon.com/)

<comment><USER15> And from the SF one held last May: [https://stupidhackathon.github.io/](https://stupidhackathon.github.io/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> The "A virtual reality experience of looking at a fireplace on TV" is actually a thing.

</comment><comment><USER17> Someone should create boilerplate marketing websites for all of these ideas and see how many bites they can get from people who believe they're legitimate startups.

</comment><comment><USER18> That's awesome. ITP for the win!

</comment><comment><USER19> Loved being a part of this, the presentations were absolutely hilarious. We made Larry, a "lazy Siri" in webapp form: [https://www.larri.rocks/](https://www.larri.rocks/)

</comment><comment><USER20> Fantastic idea. The service OptIn, mentioned at the end, is certifiably hilarious.

</comment><comment><USER21> Stupid Shit No One Needs and Terrible Ideas thread: go!

My submission: Robot Pan Handlers.

 _googles_

Shit. Nevermind.

</comment><comment><USER22> Along the same lines is Comedy Hack Day: [http://www.comedyhackday.org/](http://www.comedyhackday.org/)

</comment><comment><USER23> "Strange how much human progress and achievement comes from contemplation of the irrelevant." \- Scott Kim

</comment><comment><USER24> for the British Nanny Netflix, how do they do that?, do they have a transcript of every (or some) movie and then synchronize the sound? some of these projects are really good

</comment><comment><USER25> Isn't this the theme for EVERY hackathon?

<comment><USER26> The fb like button came from a hackathon and now is without doubt the backbone of our society.

<comment><USER27> Sounds like it would be right at home at the Stupid Hackathon then, hyuck hyuck</comment></comment></comment>