North Korea Sentences U.S. Student to 15 Years Hard Labor - <AUTHOR> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-03-16/north-korea-sentences-u-s-student-to-15-years-xinhua-says <comment><USER2> Man, the comments here are harsh! Let's atleast show some sympathy for support of his parents and his family. I'm sure the word devastation won't even describe the pain and fear that they may be going through. My hearts and prayers goes out to his family, really wish him a quick and safe return.

<comment><USER3> There can be sympathy for the loved ones, that said, the discussion does remind me of similar discussions regarding of the teenager arrested for theft and vandalism in Singapore in the 90s [1]. Outrage over him being caned.

I'm sorry, but travelers to a foreign country need to be at least cognizant of local customs (read the section in a travel book before going), and if they break the rules, expect to face consequences.

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_P._Fay](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_P._Fay)

<comment><USER4> We could really use caning to discipline juvenile offenders. Nothing like a good ass whooping to teach kids right from wrong. Unfortunately, grounding kids only work for those within the safety nets of middle class. It is not enough nor is it realistic to threaten to take away a child's things when there's nothing to take away because of poverty.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Here's a video of him confessing to his crime: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYUMImDfhoo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYUMImDfhoo)

<comment><USER6> Very well scripted by the NK government, almost like he picked the words himself.

<comment><USER7> A couple of those phrases just didn't sound right, as if they weren't picked by a native speaker. "...their treatment of _severe criminals_ like myself and of their _fair and square legal procedures_ in the _DPR Korea_ "

As well as how awkwardly he walked in and bowed. Perhaps that's how people of the DPRK bow, but I've never seen that before.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> dont we have a couple teenagers and several adults imprisoned....indefinitely...without any charges...at gitmo? why such outrage at NK but none at what our own govt. has been engaged in for over a decade..

<comment><USER9> I thought people locked up at gitmo are terrorists who wanted to kill people. This guy on the other hand tried to steal a poster. I can't even fathom how you are trying to draw parallel between the two cases.

<comment><USER10> > _I thought people locked up at gitmo are terrorists who wanted to kill > people._

If only there were some kind of open forum, or even a closed forum where the records of same are made public, where the government could present evidence in favor of this assertion, and the accused could defend themselves against it in kind. We could even mandate that they be set free, should they prove themselves innocent, or that they be required to serve a _defined_ prison term, should they not.

What a more just world we might live in, where such privileges were granted to everyone, regardless of how grievous the crimes they were accused of might be. Oh well.

<comment><USER11> Exactly. For all we know about the people in Gitmo and the legitimacy of their sentences, they might as well be a bunch of _very_ unlucky poster thieves.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> This stupidity is equal to bringing drugs to Singapore or trying to collar a bear cub in front of bear mom in the middle of wilderness.

You could have fun or lose your life. Make a call.

If adult cannot make a judgement call simple enough he becomes a learning statistics for others.

On the other side i think NK will keep him in reasonable conditions to leverage the situation eventually returning him back.

<comment><USER13> It's not comparable at all. Posters on the street are seen as being disposable in most parts of the world, and it's hard to imagine being arrested for, say, pulling down an Obama campaign poster and taking it home. Drug trafficking and hunting large predators are pretty much illegal everywhere, on the other hand.

<comment><USER14> > it's hard to imagine being arrested for, say, pulling down an Obama campaign > poster and taking it home

It's actually funny you mention campaign posters specifically - because yes, you can get in very serious legal trouble for taking down campaign signs in certain states.

Source: I know people who took down opposing campaign signs for the opposing candidate. Fun times were not had, except perhaps by the lawyers.

<comment><USER13> Oh, that's a good point. I was just imagining a fan taking a poster home for personal use, but that sort of thing could easily fall under campaign laws.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> So, on one hand I understand that people visiting foreign countries are expected to follow the laws of that country. Plenty of tourists have been severely punished (or worse, executed) in places like Singapore and Indonesia for drug offences. Of all places you'd expect punishment for vandalism, NK certainly seems the most likely place.

I think the real concern is the disproportionate response to the crime. Which, may in part be; 1. both a deterrent for others, 2. a show of force against the US, 3. something which forces the US to reduce some of its embargos.

So, pity the fool and hope that something diplomatic can be done.

</comment><comment><USER16> I find it interesting the article uses "exchange for money" instead of "sell". It's as if the author is bending over backwards to make us more sympathetic to the student.

<comment><USER17> His Wikipedia page uses similar language with more detail:

"On February 29, 2016 he confessed to stealing a piece of North Korean propaganda from his hotel's staff-only section to take back to the United States as a "trophy" for someone willing to recompense him with a $10,000 reward."

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Frederick_Warmbier](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Frederick_Warmbier)

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> Pretty crazy to see people here justifying this ridiculous sentence for something that may not have even been done on purpose. What is wrong with some of you?

<comment><USER19> So he accidentally took down the poster? How does that happen?

<comment><USER20> We're not going to really know what happened there until he's out. But the question did remind me of an old Polish movie ending in a scene where a guy tries to fix a broken flag and the police stops him for breaking it. ([https://youtu.be/34OcRxapLY0?t=10m10s](https://youtu.be/34OcRxapLY0?t=10m10s) "citizen, are you taking down national flag? papers please") NK publishes a lot of lies. Let's not rely on them for judging people.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> For those curious, here's his full press conference (1) presented in glorious 4:3 aspect ratio. This is obviously prior to recent sentencing:

(1) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCZvgY1NGXU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCZvgY1NGXU)

<comment><USER22> NK is pioneer for 4:3 video technologies. Only America uses inferior 16:9.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> On the downside it's not nice for the student and a pain for US negotiators trying to get him out. On the other hand it may help throw some light on the issues of the 150,000–200,000 prisoners incarcerated in various prison camps, who don't get the press coverage.

</comment><comment><USER24> So am I supposed to feel bad for Otto? We all know NK is a disaster of human rights, but hey fuck it, this kids thinks he's gonna prove a point by taking down a propaganda poster? This is lazy activism. Congrats, you prover your point. Meanwhile, we now need to spend real diplomatic points figuring out how to get you free'd all while you rot in some NK hell hole. By the way, nobody, or at least almost nobody will ever remember what you did.

<comment><USER25> You are supposed to feel bad, because even if what he allegedly did is stupid, the sentencing is not in any way proportionate to the action.

And that's assuming he really did what North Korea says he did. It's not the first time they've made up charges, or trumped up benign accidents into intentionally malicious acts coordinated by the US Gov.

<comment><USER17> There's mention of the arrest from an HN member who saw it first-hand in the thread from yesterday on photos from DPRK:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11287535](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11287535)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> Similar story (just reverse the severity of the crime and the punishment): [http://www.b92.net/eng/news/crimes.php?yyyy=2016&mm=01&dd=14...](http://www.b92.net/eng/news/crimes.php?yyyy=2016&mm=01&dd=14&nav_id=96702)

</comment><comment><USER27> I bet he feels dumb. That sucks, but still REALLY? Why did he possibly think that was a good idea?

</comment><comment><USER28> I've always found it interesting how US citizens can travel to NK, but not Cuba. I do realize things are changing with travel to Cuba but there are still restrictions

<comment><USER29> Fun fact, US citizens can now visit both countries.

<comment><USER30> They relaxed more of the restrictions on travel to Cuba just today: [http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/16/us/politics/white-house- cu...](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/16/us/politics/white-house-cuba- restrictions.html)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> HN really, really dislikes college kids, especially the globe trotting outgoing ones. I know because I fall in that camp of haters sometimes. Totally withhold judgement in this case, though, since we know almost no facts.

<comment><USER32> Do not extended your personal views against college students to all of HN readership. Your hatred does not represent my views.

<comment><USER31> It was meant tongue in cheek. I honestly don't hate anyone.

<comment><USER32> So you hate on college students just for the lulz? And think that's representative of HN readership?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> He got off easy, it's 60 years in the United States.

</comment><comment><USER34> Our people will get him out right? We have special operations that handles this?

<comment><USER35> Donald trump would.

Obama? Not sure he can be a softy or not depending

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> I hope Obama shows some strength here and not let Donald Trump take the spotlight.

<comment><USER37> Wait, what? Why would any politician give this dude a second thought? They certainly don't mind incarcerating dudes who steal from the government _here_ , why would they care about NKBK incarcerating dudes who steal from the government there? The fact that of the two politicians you mention, I can't predict which will do the stupid saber-rattling thing, seems to illustrate Trump's point, if I may be forgiven for steelmanning such into existence. (I voted for Bernie today, but I see why others vote for Trump.)

<comment><USER38> Because we do what we can to assist our citizens overseas. As far as I know, all countries do:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consular_assistance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consular_assistance)

This guy is a total fuck-up, no doubt. Many Americans are, though, and I don't think that merits 15 years at hard labor. Especially since part of the reason the North Koreans are doing this is likely because of international politics.</comment></comment></comment>


The True Cost of Amazon's New Kindle  - <AUTHOR> http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/apr2009/tc20090421_430707.htm

<comment><USER2> Great. Another iSuppli teardown that's going to cause everyone on the Internet to cry foul at how Amazon is charging 48% mark up on it's devices. Yes, because these things build themselves, weren't designed by anyone, get shipped through instantaneous teleportation, market themselves, and do their own support...

<comment><USER3> 50% mark-up is pretty standard for retail items. I'm surprised the Kindle mark-up is not higher.

<comment><USER4> It's not 50% mark-up, it's 93% mark-up: $185.49 to $359.00

<comment><USER5> That depends on how you read the phrase "50% mark-up". I read it as 50% of the retail price is mark-up, the other 50% is cost.

<comment><USER4> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markup_(business)> is generally accepted.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> John Gruber wrote a great commentary on iSuppli's methods a while ago [1]. Basically, his assertion is that their numbers are a mix of generalizations and pure imagination, and don't take into account a lot of important factors.

[1]<http://daringfireball.net/2007/07/isuppli>

</comment><comment><USER7> I think you get free wireless for the entire lifetime of the device. Some of the cost must go toward that.

<comment><USER8> I believe that's also subsidized by the cost of the ebooks which they hope you will purchase.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Who _cares_ how much it costs Amazon to make the thing? You don't like the price, you don't buy it. What do Amazon's costs have to do with that decision?

<comment><USER10> I'm not sure why you phrase it so discouragingly. What's wrong with wanting to know simply for curiosity's sake? I'm interested in buying a kindle. I'd be interested in buying it without knowing individual component costs. But if offered the chance to see the prices, I'd be interested, sure.

<comment><USER9> My phrasing was because of the markup discussion above. I'd assumed people were talking about the high _(?)_ markup because it'd factor into their buying decision, which seems pointless.

I see nothing wrong with wanting to know for curiosity's sake.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> As a consumer, I'm more interested in cost of ownership of the device in comparison with just buying physical books rather than the underlying manufacturing cost.

<comment><USER12> The books you buy for the Kindle _are_ physical books, i.e. they are made of electrons.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> Here's their actual detailed breakdown for the curious: <http://www.isuppli.com/NewsDetail.aspx?ID=20138>

</comment><comment><USER14> I find it odd that they would call out ARM licensing fees. Wouldn't that be included in the cost of the part?

<comment><USER15> The research guys, iSuppli, rightly did not include them - they're usually paid by the chip vendor to ARM (or whatever licensor), and included in the chip price. The writer tried to be clever, and missed.

Retail price = 3 x BOM (bill-of-materials) is one rule-of-thumb for volume hardware without special assembly or extraordinary software.

<comment><USER14> (so to nitpick, iSuppli rightly DID include them? -- in the cost of the chip)

<comment><USER15> Well, iSuppli did not mention them. The writer brought it up: "Royalty Payments Not Addressed ... One cost iSuppli's teardowns don't address: Any royalties paid to ARM."

He missed the mark - he might have had a point for data formats. I think that licensing costs are borne by the manufacturers (of the final product) for firmware they toss in to decode DVDs, MP3s, etc. Cf. recent TomTom/Microsoft FAT kerfuffle.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Solution to the God-Einstein-Oppenheimer Dice Puzzle - <AUTHOR> http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/06/solution-to-god-einstein-oppenheimer-dice-puzzle/

<comment><USER2> I love the idea of non-transitive dice.</comment>


Aldous Huxley's Dianetic Utopia (2017) - <AUTHOR> https://www.emptymirrorbooks.com/literature/island-aldous-huxley-dianetics <comment><USER2> I read it 15 years or so ago and it seemed to be mostly about meditation and 'animal magnetism'. It was obviously written by someone a bit too enthusiastic about a few too many fringey things. But it's interesting that meditation (or mindfullness) has still got buzz around it now whereas Animal Magnetism has been out of fad for so long I'd never heard of it.

</comment><comment><USER3> As somebody who owns this in 1st edition hardcover, it is by far his worst work. And while hubbards asinine idology did creep in, it was nowhere near the crazy scientology creed suggested. Lets let this scientology psudeoscience die out like it should have then.

</comment><comment><USER4> What Would Soltan Gris Do?

Has any Scientologist tried to reconcile the fact that everything about the world's greatest dekology, Mission Earth, strongly suggests Dianetics / Scientology is a hoax?</comment>


Coding Is Coming To Every Industry You Can Think Of - <AUTHOR> http://www.fastcoexist.com/1682169/coding-is-coming-to-every-industry-you-can-think-of-time-to-start-learning-it-now <comment><USER2> The very first sentence is trying to demolish a hypothesis that nobody who knows the least bit about the business world could possibly believe:

 _" Not every coder job involves working in a blue chip tech company or Silicon Valley startup."_

For as long as computers have been commercially available, most coding jobs were not in tech companies. They were in banks, insurance companies, manufacturing companies, government offices, scientific research labs and any other kind of business that had to keep track of large amounts of operational data. A major bank's code base is probably many times the size of Facebook's.

And if a vineyard or a fashion house needs someone to write code to manage some aspect of the business, that's hardly evidence that every one of their employees could benefit by learning to code.</comment>


Show HN: 500 Mile Email – A curated list of absurd software bug stories - <AUTHOR> https://500mile.email/ <comment><AUTHOR> I keep seeing this amazing story posted every 6-12 months and I keep thinking that it would be nice to have a curated list of similar sites, so I built this over the past few days.

Tech used: Lektor, Bulma, Netlify</comment>


LG confirms production of 'bendable and unbreakable' smartphone displays  - <AUTHOR> http://www.engadget.com/2013/10/07/lg-curved-smartphone-display-production/ <comment><USER2> Ars has a down-to-earth analysis of this: [http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/10/the-straight-truth- ab...](http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/10/the-straight-truth-about- samsung-and-lgs-flexible-smartphone-displays/)

</comment><comment><USER3> A guess at ranked practical benefits of this screen:

1\. Reduced risk of phone breaking from a drop.

2\. Thinness (More room for a battery and other components)

3\. Lightness (More leeway for other heavier components)

4\. Bendability? (not sure it even makes the list for a mobile phone), though if bended for side displays or around the entire phone.. could be.. interesting, maybe. Jury is out for mobile phone applications - could be really cool for other applications, maybe.

I wonder about differences in efficiency, reflectivity, brightness, viewing angle, resolution, etc, too.

<comment><USER4> Depending what the bend radius and elasticity is, it could be hugely valuable. It makes it possible to have a display that is larger than your pocket.

It would also be very valuable for "smartwatches", like Pebble, or other fashion tech like Nike "Fuel Band".

<comment><USER5> The ars article says the bend radius (400mm) is far to modest to allow that.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I'd like to know what the statistics are of people replacing their smartphones due to a broken screen. If it is significant, then this could hurt them in the long run.

<comment><USER7> I've seen more people using a shattered phone for the remainder of their contract than I've ever seen replacing a shattered phone right away.

<comment><USER6> I recently busted the screen on my Nexus 4 -- and I was planning on still using it, but I guess I was one of the unlucky ones -- the touch screen wouldn't work at all afterwards.

<comment><USER8> Same here, and it was a pretty light drop (onto wood). Actually, the back glass broke without any cajoling whatsoever--I put it in my pocket after I took it out of the box, and fifteen minutes later when I took it out the rear glass was cracked.

I now have a non-functional N4. I'll see what the N5 looks like, but I'm not too thrilled with the prospect of another LG phone.

<comment><USER9> Same here, just recently broke my Nexus 4's display. Doesn't seem to be easy to get it repaired either...

<comment><USER5> Repair it yourself. All the parts are purchasable on the web, the touch screen plug in with a ribbon cable, and there are youtube instruction videos for any conceivable brand.

<comment><USER8> Hard to justify spending $120[1] to fix a $199 phone.

[1][http://www.ebay.ca/sch/sis.html?_nkw=LCD%20DISPLAY%20Touch%2...](http://www.ebay.ca/sch/sis.html?_nkw=LCD%20DISPLAY%20Touch%20Screen%20Digitizer%20FOR%20LG%20E960%20Google%20Nexus%204%20FRAME%20Replace&_itemId=230881372533#ht_983wt_1163&clk_rvr_id=529718175668)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Well, that's one way to enhance the persistence of memory.

</comment><comment><USER11> Could no glass also mean potentially less reflective screens? I sure hope so.

</comment><comment><USER12> How much will they retail at? Any idea?</comment>


Ask HN: Is contracting full time a good career path? - <AUTHOR> Hi HN,
I've been a contract web developer for a full year now after two years of salaried work.
I work in the Atlanta area, and am making $77/hr at a great company here. I always get 40 hours of work a week, so I should come out somewhere around $160k at the end of the year. This sort of money is unheard of here, the absolute best money I've seen for a full time developer role here is probably $120k.
It seems to me like I'm getting an extremely good deal, but I have a sinking feeling that I am missing something. Most guys my age are doing regular salary work for half the pay. I can't see what justification there is for doing this.
Am I missing something by not committing to a company? I don't think I necessarily have the interpersonal/ office politics skill to get into some executive role at this time, and I don't see why I can't do that down the road.
Can anyone here argue for a salaried job in my situation? I feel like I'm missing something.
Thanks for any feedback you can give me! <comment><USER2> When you're employed by someone else, they'll cover their half of FICA taxes (6.2% each), offer health insurance, HSA contributions. It might be possible in Atlanta to secure a compensation package that includes RSUs or access to an ESPP plan.

I'm not sure if you are covering both halves of FICA or not, but the above benefits could explain the difference, e.g., $120k + benefits = $160k.

Financials aside: If you're the type of person that likes switching companies once every 12 to 18 months, contracting could be a good fit. In my personal view, to really master a role, you need to be in it longer than that. It takes a junior engineer a couple years to become mid-level; the same for mid-level, to senior, and so forth.

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm actually a W2 through an agency, so the other half of my FICA is covered by the agency. The agency also provides some health insurance.

> likes switching companies once every 12 to 18 months

This does kind of resonate with me. I'm kind of restless now having been working on the same project for a year.

I don't think the benefits adds up to a 40K difference a year. As I said, I get health insurace, but no 401k matching. If I got something like 10% 401k matching I'd get about $400 per pay period ($400 * 12 = 4800).

I'm worried that these salary guys are going to be in some wildly better position in 10+ year because they committed to a company. But I don't really see how they will be.

Thank you so much for the response.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Make sure you're building your professional network. It's harder to do that without colleagues.</comment>


I'm an AI researcher, and here's how I fight Corona - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@arturkiulian/im-an-ai-researcher-and-here-s-how-i-fight-corona-1e0aa8f3e714 <comment><USER2> hey guys Artur Kiulian, author of this article here, PLEASE help us if you think you can:

We need:

\- Non-technical talent (project managers etc)

\- Experienced problem formulators & solvers, we are severely understaffed with people who can take unstructured information and transform it into the actionable task

\- People with experience in medical domains (virology, epidemics, biology)

\- Cross-discipline operators (people that work on the intersection of different subject domains like technology + medicine)

\- Researchers & principal investigators, traditional academic background that are familiar with the process

\- Marketers & Communicators (we, as a group, need to more effectively spread our core message and mission to organizations that can help us)

\- Data engineers (there is a lot of data and we need to preprocess and enrich it)

\- Developers (we still need to build traditional non-AI systems to help ML pipeline)

</comment><comment><USER3> Love this! Check some of the deals here - may be useful: [https://www.notion.so/youteamhome/f96b7c7136d44558b2b646046b...](https://www.notion.so/youteamhome/f96b7c7136d44558b2b646046b04d76e?v=a0acaad7d4694719999f98ef1a7bb0f9)

</comment><comment><USER4> Amazing initiative. When did you guys start this whole thing? How do I join?

<comment><USER2> a week ago (lol) please click "join" on the website: [https://www.coronawhy.org/](https://www.coronawhy.org/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I love the collaboration and the hard work everyone is putting together on the project. You should join us.

</comment><comment><USER6> Great Works. This is Raj, working as Data Scientist for past two years</comment>


A researcher on how to live a happy life - <AUTHOR> http://www.ox.ac.uk/research/research-in-conversation/how-live-happy-life/michael-plant <comment><USER2> For me, I have become happier in the moment via insight meditation, which focuses on noticing thoughts and feelings without action or reaction.

Part of the wisdom of meditation lies in the following: There is baggage we all carry, the self, this belief we're the center of it all, the author of (and subservient to) our own thoughts. How do I stop doing what makes me unhappy, if that's "who I am"? But, in reality, I can abandon "who I am" and find new processes of living and new ways of thinking about the world.

In practice, this resetting of your mind is achieved without training by various psychdelic drugs, which peel back the layers of the onion in an effortless fashion. In meditation, you train your mind to actually pay close attention, eventually achieving an effortless open-ness that drugs achieve very simply. Once you're good at following your breath, you can turn to thoughts and feelings, recognizing them as mere arisings in consciousness.

Mere arisings in the mind do not require response: there's no need to act upon our desires, urges, distraction, and regular patterns, they are just heuristics or mental shortcuts the brain uses over and over to save time/effort of decision making. Do we have to respond to all our noticing sounds, light, smells? If not, why do we have to respond to negative thoughts?

Negative thoughts may become crystallized into negative actions. However, if you know what behaviors of your own contribute to unhappiness, you can always pause for 10-15 seconds, meditate briefly, drawing upon your training of the brain's meditative ability, and you will notice the actual feeling of the urge to behave, and not act upon it. It will disappear like very other appearance in consciousness.

<comment><USER3> Very insightful. Please share more.

I've been taking up meditation and bubiddism but still very much a novice. I find that as you open your mind and see through more things, in a way things gets less interesting. It's that feeling that you've seen this movie before. Maybe this is normal for older people but I'm in my 20s and it feels very odd.

How do you deal with that and not feel like a zombie.

<comment><USER4> It's often referred to as mindfulness, and it falls under cognitive behavioral therapy. I've had trouble finding useful links, so I'll repeat the practical info I was taught.

Pretend your active focus or attention is like a fishing line. Pick a single thing, usually a physical object like a tree, and "cast" your focus onto that. Focus on specific parts of the tree, the bark, leaves, how the wind moves through it, how it makes you feel, etc. This will cause your attention to wander. Being aware that this is happening is crucial. "Reel" your attention back in and focus on just the tree again. Repeat this for roughly 15 minutes, at least once per day. If you can only manage 5 minutes at first, that's still a great start.

You are effectively training your brain to be aware of it's own attention. The idea is not to prevent wandering or emotions, but to be mindful of how those thoughts got there, and what you are thinking and feeling. In essence, how could you possibly control your thoughts if you aren't even aware of them?

Your zombie comment was something I was worried about at first. Spoiler: you're still free to act on those emotions or thoughts, but now with undivided attention!

<comment><USER5> Mindfulness is not CBT, it has been integrated into it. CBT normally works in the thought, emotional or behavioral level.

Mindfulness reconditions the subconscious conditioned level in which thoughts and emotions lead to automatic behavior (i.e. conditioned behavior).

It's subconscious because most people aren't aware of how they are being swept away by thoughts and emotions. The reconditioning happens by training your awareness through breathing meditation, body-scan meditation (IMO better name than mindfulness/vipassana) and other meditations. Now you're more aware which is how you're reconditioned and with that you can decide to not act on your old habits.

CBT is a thing from psychology. Meditation is taken by psychologists from Buddhism and integrated into it. But IMO it doesn't follow the philosophy of CBT. So to say it us CBT or falls under it ignores what it really is: a technique from religions such as Buddhism, Hinduism and Jainism.

Search Inside Yourself is a good book to read more about it from or positive psychology from Harvard (2006, taught by Tal Ben Shahar, it's on YouTube).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Some overlap with Stoicism here. From the Enchiridion of Epictetus:

1\. Some things are in our control and others not. Things in our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a word, whatever are our own actions. Things not in our control are body, property, reputation, command, and, in one word, whatever are not our own actions.

The things in our control are by nature free, unrestrained, unhindered; but those not in our control are weak, slavish, restrained, belonging to others. Remember, then, that if you suppose that things which are slavish by nature are also free, and that what belongs to others is your own, then you will be hindered. You will lament, you will be disturbed, and you will find fault both with gods and men. But if you suppose that only to be your own which is your own, and what belongs to others such as it really is, then no one will ever compel you or restrain you. Further, you will find fault with no one or accuse no one. You will do nothing against your will. No one will hurt you, you will have no enemies, and you not be harmed.

<comment><USER7> Here are some of my favorite Epictetus quotes:

 _Chapter 8_ Don't hope that events will turn out the way you want, welcome events in whatever way they happen: this is the path to peace.

 _Chapter 9_ Sickness is a problem for the body, not the mind -- unless the mind decides that it is a problem. Lameness, too, is the body's problem, not the mind's. Say this to yourself whatever the circumstance and you will find without fail that the problem pertains to something else, not to you.

 _Chapter 10_ For every challenge, remember the resources you have within you to cope with it. Provoked by the sight of a handsome man or a beautiful woman, you will discover within you the contrary power of self-restraint. Faced with pain, you will discover the power of endurance. If you are insulted, you will discover patience. In time, you will grow to be confident that there is not a single impression that you will not have the moral means to tolerate.

 _Chapter 14_ You are a fool to want your children, wife or friends to be immortal; it calls for powers beyond you, and gifts not yours to either own or give. You can, however, avoid meeting with disappointment in your desires; focus on this, then, since it is the scope of your capacities. We are at the mercy of whoever wields authority over the things we desire or detest. If you would be free, then, do not wish to have, or avoid things that other people control, because then you must serve as their slave.

<comment><USER8> A lot of philosophy and "wisdom" is in telling people what they should do and probably already try to do without giving them the tools to do it.

A wise person realizes it is silly to tell someone "Don't hope that events will turn out the way you want" without giving them real tools to address their feelings.

<comment><USER9> that's fair, although i will say that people tend to complicate these things to a ridiculous degree, coming up with a laundry list of reasons they can or cannot make strides towards these goals.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I have long regarded happiness in the same category as grace: it is an undeserved and unasked for free gift. An epiphenomena that is not a consequence of, but happens along with, other positive actions.

And for me that's living a less self-centered life.

I am happy when what I do with my life enriches the lives of others. But being transactional about this ruins the game. It is, among other things, the opposite of zero-sum. Do the thing for the exuberant joy of the thing itself, don't take yourself too seriously or try to carry too much weight, and _act in the trust that_ , but do not _demand as payment that_ this will lead to a happier place.

<comment><USER11> This pretty much sums up Christian ethics.

<comment> I-M-S Christian ethics is all about demanding a payment, ie. the promise that one's good deeds will be rewarded in afterlife.

<comment><USER12> No, we are all sinners, and Jesus paid the price for each one of us on the cross:

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." [Ephesians 2, 8-9 NKJV]

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us". [1 John 1, 8-10 NKJV]

<comment><USER13> Probably worth adding the famous John 3:16:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that _whoever_ believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." (emphasis mine)

<comment><USER12> Yes! That it is were it starts and continues in aeternum. :-)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> There's a bit of a trap here that I find myself standing in.

Parts of our culture are participatory. You get social benefits from going through the same things as your peers. When you stop getting sucked into things by your insecurities, you become non-participatory. You miss out on chances to connect with other people. There is no bonding experience for you, but there is for everybody else. It can be kind of alienating.

Imagine you are watching a new movie with people. 15 minutes in your think, "Hey, this is a retelling of a story by [Shakespeare,Brontë]", or "Oh geeze, the nerdy guy is the killer and everyone has dismissed him despite the foreshadowing." You now know the story arc, and so the roller coaster ends for you (unless the director is exceptional - Ron Howard, Apollo 13). Everyone else is having a great time. You're still having a good time, but you're paying more attention to the production values or the emotional range of one of the actors. You aren't part of the same experience, and you are gonna have a tough time participating in the conversation. Whatever you do, don't tell them you knew what was going to happen all along, Mr Buzzkill.

There are plenty of idealogs who would insist this isn't a problem. Your need to belong is just another hang-up you need to deal with. That you should let go of that too. But I don't think many of those idealogs ended their lives forgotten and alone because they never built a connection (or inter- generational connection in particular) with other people.

<comment><USER15> What's the problem? You can enjoy the movie and talk about the connections to Bronte and the little clues the movie showed.

The problem seems to be less that literature is derivative, and more that the viewer is looking for reasons to dismiss things instead of reasons to enjoy them.

<comment><USER14> If you have a simple, relatable problem, then you can illustrate it with something that gets to the heart of the matter.

If you're trying to illustrate something esoteric, like black hole physics, immunology, or Zen, you're going to have to come at it sideways, via analogy, and possibly layered. Which may be part of our current, greater problem with anti-intellectualism. People understand the analogy and think this has prepared them to participate rather than appreciate.

So the problem with movies is that movies are the least of the problem.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> If you live in a very aggressive and malevolent environment that constantly wants to break you and use you for its own needs it's important to follow these rules:

1\. Don't forget to love. There is always something to love. This is the most important thing. Enemies will try to make you hate (no matter what).

2\. Be happy. It may sound as a trivial advice, but to be actually happy it's very helpful to consciously set your inner state as "happy". Despite all negative aspects of the situation you are in.

3\. Be grateful. This is also helps a lot. There is always something more to lose. Be grateful for what you have now.

4\. Dream! Dreams are the force that move us in our life. And the movement is necessary.

5\. Live! Another trivial advice. But you can easily stuck under the burden without noticing it.

6\. Try to fly over the problems, don't let them control your mind and thoughts. Think of them as walls (well, sometimes you have to break through).

7\. Try to use long-term planning. Uncertainty is not a good thing for happiness.

8\. Don't get sucked and destroyed by the temporary situation. There is always sunrise after darkness. Remember it.

<comment><USER17> I can't agree with this list enthusiastically enough. Thank you.

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> _So if you ask people if they'd be happier living in California or the Midwest, most people say California. Actually the regions have comparable life satisfaction, but people say California because they think of the weather and fail to take account of other things, such as the fact that California is full of tedious hippies._

The author does not cite research about about how "tedious hippies" make people sad, nor demographic evidence that California is "full of" them.

<comment><USER19> I think it might be a joke.

<comment><USER20> At first I thought that parent didn't understand the joke. Now I think I might have not understood the meta-joke.

<comment><USER21> Yes, I think the parent is a /metajoke/ as you call it :) However, there are 3 threads around that miss the original author is poking fun there. I'd like to stress the structure of these 3 paragraphs:

      The first is that, [serious things with a reference] they think of the weather and fail to take account of other things, such as the fact that California is full of tedious hippies.
      The second, [serious things with a reference] [after a breakup] we'll decide we never liked the person anyway.
      The third [serious things with a reference]. In other words, last night's party was never as good as you think it was.

Given my HN karma, I won't dare end this comment with an attempt at being humorous. It would be akin to a HN suicide.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> I can confidently say that I am happy. Everybody close to me thinks that I was born happy and positive but they couldn't be more wrong. Achieving a permanent state of happiness took years of active mental exercises. Since I don't have any credible psychology background, nobody listens to my suggestions in real life. I doubt anybody would take me seriously here as well, but... all I have is time so this will help someone find their own path to happiness.

The first exercise I did in my pursuit of happiness was to understand what it means to be a happy person.

1\. (At night) Would a happy person reach for the bottle of scotch? Why would he?

2\. Knowing what I know about animal farming, would a happy person enjoy eating meat as much as currently am?

3\. Would a happy person be as frustrated as I am with an under performing co- worker?

Once I had an idea of what a happy 'me' would do, I started going down a journey of self reflection. Why am I doing the things a happy me wouldn't do?

The whole journey helps me gain a higher resolution into my feelings and once my mind and my feelings are aligned, the negative feelings went away. My ability to empathize (initially I did not even know what that was) was no longer suppressed. Nowadays, negative feelings are rare, but every negative feeling and pain I feel is an opportunity to align my feelings and my logic.

I believe this: You will never be happy following someone's else's happy path.

You will be happy once you find the courage to confront your demons, reflect, and understand yourself better. Our minds does good job at hiding you from finding these demons, so a big part of the journey is finding and identifying them.

<comment><USER23> > Since I don't have any credible psychology background, nobody listens to my > suggestions in real life.

The reason I prefer listening to researchers is because they study populations and try to account for confounding variables.

I'm glad to hear you're happy, but I'm skeptical of how well you're able to attribute that to particular circumstances/actions.

<comment><USER22> I understand. Purely anecdotal:

This is probably a very bad thing to admit, but it is true in my case. Once I stopped listening to researchers and professionals, I started becoming truly happy. I feel like I'm making my own decisions. Doing research and weighing options leads to self doubt which leads me down a painful dilemma. Now I just experiment and make my own decisions that feels right and it is very empowering.

<comment><USER23> Anecdotally, I agree. :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> I found it strange that there was not one mention of the ancient Stoics, who, disregarding their non-materialist viewpoints, came up with much of this philosophy. I'd argue they are a more accurate original source of these viewpoints on mindfulness and contentment than the Epicureans.

<comment><USER25> Stoic ethics is greatly underrated unfortunately. Despite being extremely influential from Christian ethics to modern cognitive behavioral therapy, it's relatively obscure. Everyone is familiar with it without knowing its source.

<comment><USER26> There is a picture of Epicurus or Marcus Aurelius with some pithy quote posted daily on many social media channels. The idea that "stoicism" is obscure is tenuous at best.

<comment><USER25> Pretty weak evidence for something not being obscure. I'm willing to bet that a survey would support my position that it's obscure. As for my weak evidence: personally I don't know anyone that is familiar with stoic ethics, and even in my university's philosophy department, it's basically only the one professor who specializes in Hellenic philosophy that obviously is familiar with it. Furthermore I have seen several CBT practicioners and none of them have heard of it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> I don't agree with his analysis of modern happiness levels. It's yet another biased quantitative analysis of various metrics that are decoupled from human nature. Struggles, efforts, shorter lifespan is not a problem if your days are filled with deeper emotions, less confusion, better balance timewise (slower pace but more efficient labour).

A tiny instance to try to explain my above abstract: in 2020 you can have a lot of tech, a cute office but still asked to archive a whole room on your own. In other cultures this would have been organized differently in pair for instance (you can see videos of people in asia building houses by juggling bricks between another). This turns a 10h dreadful and lonely chore into a 3h shared, almost pleasant, choreography. I believe how era is filled with false modernity which are mostly absurd lack of good sense around human needs for flow, teaming, etc

ps: critic aside, I find it lovely to see that people are "researching" happiness, which is probably more important to 100% of the population than a lot of "matieral" research being done right now

<comment><USER28> Very insightful, please share more.

I agree upon what you are saying, and would love to know what active steps I could take to fill my days with deeper feelings and make them meaningful.

As far as the article is concerned, I do concur with his analysis, especially about mindfulness, and CBT. I have practiced mindfulness and it does keep me stable, grounded, sharp and happy.

<comment><USER27> I have no real advice to be honest, just various experiences on how our modern life is full of unnecessary drag and false solutions while living in a bare place makes your days different.

Also I cannot avoid the immense amount of extremely low efficiency in most organizations... there's nothing interesting in today's live for most people. Just drag fit with shallow moments. I'd rather carry wood on a horse powered carriage for 3 days. And for once I'm not exaggerating much.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER29> Another perhaps more esoteric approach is pointed to by Ramana Maharshi (and others) who encouraged people seeking happiness to inquire into "the one who is unhappy". In other words, to ask oneself, "Who is it that is unhappy?" The idea being that the independent entity that most of us take ourselves to be is just a fictional story (an I-thought) with no real existence, and that it comes about from an erroneous identification with thoughts. Once that is fully realized, the problem of happiness is permanently solved because the "I-thought", as he calls it, is the real root of the problem. In fact, according to him, it's the root of all of our problems. ;-)

<comment><USER30> Oh for the luxury of an internal locus of self evaluation! Repositioning my perspective on who I was - changing the goal posts of happiness as it were was all so easy once upon a time and then I got married! I find this kind of transcendental juggling a good bit harder now that it's not just my own happiness that needs to be accommodated ... anyone got any tips?

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> As a very happy person, perhaps I can give some advice :)

One thing that's surprisingly powerful is changing your perspective or telling yourself that you're happy. Similar to faking confidence, in a way: it starts fake but eventually you'll be actually confident, and you won't need to fake anything. Maybe the word "fake" isn't the right one here; I think a good analogy is starting an engine - the first few turns of the engine are artificial but what follows is quite real. As the article says, most of our happiness level comes from our mind, and you control your mind. Thinking something makes it true in many cases: research has shown that people get convincingly drunk or high just from thinking they are (being given a placebo.)

"Do more of what you like" is decent advice too, but it doesn't always align with happiness. I like swimming, eating pizza, and going to thrift stores. But I've tried, and doing more of those things didn't make me happier. I like biking, traveling, and photography - doing more of those did make me happier! And I don't like putting my phone away for a week, or doing chores that I put off, but those things do make me happier. My advice would be to experiment, and take notes.

Changing my lifestyle completely has also been good for me. It gives me time to look back and see what I really thought about a three hour commute or an unusual diet or unlimited data. Even things as mundane as new socks or a better phone case have made a difference for me. And there are some surprisingly big things I don't care about at all.

I think trying to improve your happiness in ways like these is generally good for you, though I'd caution against making it into an obsession. Pretty much everyone I've seen that's obsessed with a quest for happiness didn't seem very happy. I think there's another piece of the puzzle - being able to just be content - and for some that may be the hardest part of all.

<comment><USER32> In that vein, every morning I look in the mirror and smile at myself. It gives you a lift to see someone smile, no matter how forced. And its free. Never mind it's you looking back - the response to a smile is built-in and works anyway. For me.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> > Almost no one thinks about actively retraining the way they think. In fact, > I don't think this last idea even crosses most of our minds.

Really? I'm pretty sure there are thousands of years of philosophical and religious traditions that teach something along the lines of "looking for happiness in the external world is a bad idea, instead try working on yourself".

I mean the four noble truths of Buddhism, a religion with roughly 0.5 billion followers, are (paraphrased):

1\. There is suffering

2\. That suffering is caused by attachment to worldly things

3\. The way to get rid of that suffering is to work on not being attached to those things

4\. The best way to work on not being attached to those things is, surprise surprise, Buddhism.

But this idea seems pretty prevalent in pop-psychology as well. So I'm not sure who the we in "our minds" is, but I think even most instagram celebrates of realized that maybe "self work" is a good idea.

Unfortunately there are some philosophers that, in the last 300 years, have started to question whether there is such a clear divide between the external and internal world... but I don't expect most people to spend their time reading a lot of philosophy.

<comment><USER27> suffering can be deeper, but that's also probably stepping into psychiatry territory.. my point is you cannot reason or meditate everything away

<comment><USER34> > you cannot reason or meditate everything away

100% agree. I was born a Buddhist and was a devout Buddhist until I was 13-14 years old (then I became an atheist). I went to monasteries for weeks on end to meditate. But what I found was that meditation is not for me. I cannot get rid of my recurring mental sufferings (anger, fear/anxiety, jealousy/envy, self-/guilt) just by spending more and more time in meditation.

One thing that I found extremely useful is stoicism (at least in the way I interpret it). I simply learned to accept that these bad feelings come and go, and that is the nature of being a human. There's nothing wrong with having such bad feelings, which I personally call as 'bad karma'. I just need to be aware of them (which meditation supposedly helps detect, but I find myself being able to do without meditating equally well) and be at peace with the fact that they come and go in my life as a human.

What is in my control is how long I dwell on these moments of bad karma. For that, I always try to get myself out of these bad-karmic situations by trying to see things in a bigger picture or in longer term (e.g., 'Well, I am not making as much money as I want to now, but that's okay because even if I don't earn more than what I do now, I can still retire pretty comfortably by living a minimalistic life. Alternatively, I just need to work maybe 2-3 more years with the current income to save up to the level of savings at which I want to retire. In the worst case scenario in which I get sick/disabled, I will just learn to adapt as human beings and other living beings are observed to do in adversity.') Trying to see things from such larger perspective makes me feel pretty content and thus, releases me from a lot of anxiety issues.

<comment><USER35> What did you expect to find in meditation at 13-14 years old though? Hardly any real conflict or hardship in anyone's life at that age.

Honest question, not looking to berate you.

<comment><USER36> You and I had a very different 13-14.

<comment><USER35> Certainly. Question is, now that you are at your current age, don't you feel that if you practice meditation now, it would you bring more benefits compared to back then?

<comment><USER36> That seems like a very different question than the point of the comment that I replied to. In my short reply, I made it about you and me, but my point was that lots of kids have real "conflict or hardship". If I told you about the stuff that was going on in my house at that age and replaced "family" with "roommates" and "school" with "work", you'd probably think of it as pretty rough. My life is _much_ easier now at 31.

But enough about me. About 1 in 7 US children are food insecure [1] and will go hungry at some point this year. One in 9 girls and 1 in 53 boys under the age of 18 experience sexual abuse or assault at the hands of an adult.[2] There is a lot of pain experienced by the world, and there's no age cutoff.

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_in_the_United_States#Ch...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_in_the_United_States#Children) [2]David Finkelhor, Anne Shattuck, Heather A. Turner, & Sherry L. Hamby, The Lifetime Prevalence of Child Sexual Abuse and Sexual Assault Assessed in Late Adolescence, 55 Journal of Adolescent Health 329, 329-333 (2014)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER37> Happiness comes when you realize that's impossible to be happy all the time and that's fine.

<comment><USER32> "In all my life, there have been maybe 10 minutes of real happiness"

"Makes it all the more valuable, doesn't it?"

</comment></comment><comment><USER38> Once was depressed in university so wrote this on happiness. Helps me to look back on. One 'good' thing about depression is it gives you a reference point of how bad it can get.

Sadly what solved the depression for me was an external event (getting out of uni and getting a job).

[https://wiki.nikitavoloboev.xyz/life/happiness](https://wiki.nikitavoloboev.xyz/life/happiness)

<comment><USER39> Why is that sad? Situational depression is the best of many bad options as it's the case where a badly needed change can actually have outsized impact.

<comment><USER38> By sad I meant that the solution was mostly out of my control. Pure chance that it happened.

<comment><USER40> > mostly out of my control

Seems like it would be totally in your control to leave school and start working. Remember that for next time you find yourself "trapped".

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER41> My happiness comes from making others happy, and surrounding myself with similarly minded people, and removing malignant people, places and situations from my life.

There isn't enough time to waste it on shitty people or environments, and making active choices towards that end has improved my quality of life even when going through difficult times emotionally, physically and financially.

<comment><USER42> This is a good way of thinking kudos

</comment></comment><comment><USER43> >Almost no one thinks about actively retraining the way they think. In fact, I don't think this last one even crosses most of our minds.

"Retraining the way we think" has come up in (almost) every homily I've heard in Catholic masses. Many of us, besides thinking about it whenever we happen to think about it, make sure we do this every week (if not more).

</comment><comment><USER44> Long commutes are indeed the bane of my existence. One can never feel more helpless and outraged while stuck in heavy traffic.

Ironically, this pandemic has made me much happier as I don't have to drive everywhere. I finally have more time to think and pursue my curiosities instead of burning gas and yelling expletives. It's quite refreshing.

<comment><USER45> I actually have found long (low traffic) commutes to be quite nice for just spacing out and thinking. It's a block of time at the beginning of each day and then at the end of each work day that forces you to ignore the distractions of the world and just leaves you by yourself.

<comment><USER46> Not possible for me. The behaviour of others around me on the train stresses me out immensely, especially sneezing and coughing (and that was pre-COVID), listening to music or phone calls on speakerphone on crowded trains, stupid conversations, etc.

Further my time is valuable, not in a monetary sense, but when you have a child at home, every minute away counts and there is no value to spending 90 minutes a day on a train.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER47> Over the many, many years, I have thrashed around with ... well, almost every suggestion that usually comes up on these articles and threads responding to these articles, as well as many unorthodox ideas. The pills and the preaching, the assorted practices recommended and the acting, going through the motions of joy hoping something will catch, the focuses outside oneself cast like grappling hooks onto any ship not sinking, the licensed and the masters' teachings, these have all disappointed me in the end. After failure upon failure, I have come to the conclusion that for some, the needle is not moved much at all upward, despite struggles and inventiveness, and so I have sided with Blake: some are born to endless night.

<comment><USER48> Hey there. Not sure if you will see this since I'm late to the conversation, but here's a suggestion.

Just do what you want.

If you don't want to do anything, keep trying/looking for things. (Don't force yourself to 'enjoy' something. If you don't want to keep doing it after just a little while, it's not the solution, so stop.)

For me, it was video games. I loathed people who play video games. But for me, it was a starting point to start enjoying life again.

You have to start simple. More complex values come later, from having a simple foundation of simple values.

I don't want to trivialize your problems, but I just though I would share this since "Do what you want" is not advice I really ever see, so maybe you haven't tried it yet.

<comment><USER47> This is one of the more frequent responses. It's in the "if nothing matters, then it doesn't matter what you do" group. Typically travel is suggested.

That would be interesting: a taxonomy of common responses to ongoing despair.

<comment><USER48> > if nothing matters, then it doesn't matter what you do

That is carrying an enormous amount of baggage that isn't in my suggestion.

Things do matter, and it does matter what you do. To say otherwise is both incorrect and too pessimistic about the human situation.

But, doing what you want is what makes anything matter. It's the solution to the "problem of meaning."

Most people just live their lives, getting barely enough of what they want to not become depressed and dysfunctional, but never actually figuring this out.

What you want is ultimately based in biology. A hungry person wants food; a thirsty person wants water. Of course, you are at a slightly higher level. But you have to look at your own desires to see what, specifically, you want. I would consider this to be a kind of hedonism (in the very technical sense of the term, without any other connotations, such moral looseness or depravity). I'm a long-term hedonist.

I wouldn't suggest anything specific for you (e.g. travel), because I don't know what you want to do. Travel definitely wouldn't suffice, for me. Like I said, for me, it is and was video games. I expect to move beyond that and want to achieve something more complex, eventually. I can feel that coming.

Also, yes, a taxonomy of common responses to despair would be interesting. Probably not helpful, but interesting.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER49> And perhaps that's entirely the wrong thing to be optimized. Google "happiness vs satisfaction". Happiness is a short term emotion, satisfaction is a long term one.

A good example is having kids; kids decreases happiness but increases satisfaction.

</comment><comment><USER50> My thinking on this is that unhappiness is broadly classified as "what will happen" (WWH). What will happen if I can't pay rent, what will happen to my kids if I die, what will happen if I can't make the deadlines and so on. Its a thousand of these that we deal with every second - some are trivial for us and we can manage them. Some are significant for us and they cause unhappiness. Some are recurring, some are one-time (but can have large impact). I don't have a solution - just speaking from personal feelings about this.

</comment><comment><USER51> Has anyone participated in the testing of the mobile app mentioned at around the 75% mark of the article? One reference they have on the landing page is describing the Experience-Sampling Method [1] - there seem to be a few existing applications that allow one to track how exactly they felt in a quantified manner at a point in time.

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience_sampling_method](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience_sampling_method)

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> I've realised the simple things: good diet, restful sleep, ample sunlight, a little exercise, and nourishing friends make a TON of difference, more than any of the things listed.

<comment><USER52> This.

I also noticed quite a bump up when I actively decided to try to not be a cynical asshole _all_ the time. Meditation, on the other hand, never did it for me.

But hey, as long as it works. :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER53> The article seems to touch upon Acceptance and Commitment Therapy [1] without explicitly calling it out. It is based on mindfulness and accepting things as they are. I personally have found it very effective.

[1] [https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapy- types/acceptance-...](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapy- types/acceptance-and-commitment-therapy)

</comment><comment><USER54> For me currently happiness is just the balance between feeding my "lizard brain" (instincts, cravings, laziness) and my rational brain (being productive, working, planning for the future). Whenever I go one way too far, I start feeling either depressed (procrastinating too much) or exhausted/burned out (working too much).

</comment><comment><USER55> Very relevant on this topic, I loved Daniel Gilbert's book, Stumbling on Happiness.

[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/56627.Stumbling_on_Happi...](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/56627.Stumbling_on_Happiness)

</comment><comment><USER56> I can't read the article right now but love this take from Joscha Bach on Lex Fridman's podcast - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mixT5_U0hk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mixT5_U0hk)

</comment><comment><USER57> I have concerns about following advice people write about how to be happy. Why are they doing it? Is it because they are happy, and they want to spread it? If so, is it like a rich person writing on how to become rich? Maybe they tell you X,Y,Z that they think were important in becoming rich, but it was actually A,B,C that they were blind to.

The worse alternative is if it is someone who was unhappy, and then did something to get happy, and now they want to share that thing. Maybe it is just a stop gap measure? I see this as examples in, say, youth pastors who are preaching the word, and then commit suicide and it turns out they were struggling with far more than they ever let on.

<comment><USER48> This is why any argument anybody makes about anything needs to be supported by a causal explanation.

If there is at least an attempt at a causal explanation, you can evaluate whether or not the advice is worthwhile and/or applicable to your situation.

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> > _Almost no one thinks about actively retraining the way they think. In fact, > I don't think this last one even crosses most of our minds._

This is so, _so_ false that it makes the rest of the article hard to take seriously.

A _ton_ of people thought about these things. Some thousands of years ago, and wrote quite interesting books about it (like a good amount of Buddhist treatises but definitely not only).

A lot of modern people think of that too, problem is that junk food / bad workplaces / tensions in the family / lack of good sleep etc. all change your brain chemistry so that it's very hard for you to look for the problems inward and try and start a change from within.

I don't have proof for this; but I've spoken with therapists and psychologists and they often admit that the pills that some patients want to take literally change the brain chemistry. And dietitians and personal gym trainers tell me that the right food and the right workout routine change your body's composition, hence the brain's as well.

So an article that starts with such a sensationalistic and untrue premise is kind of dubious.

A lot of people think about what the author says they don't. But many don't know where to begin for most (or all) of their lives. That's a modern tragedy we all have to fix: to educate people on mental health, how to avoid the worst kinds of stress, how to deescalate properly, how to give the benefit of the doubt, how to eat what's good for you and avoid the rest, how and what to workout, and many many others.

<comment><USER26> So an article that gives reason and background as to "why one should retrain the way they think" is instantly disqualified because of a singular sentence that is perhaps a bit hyperbolic? Ah, the literal mind!

<comment><USER35> You are not wrong in general. But we are all fairly busy around here, I imagine (at least I am). I'd like an article to win me over in the first paragraph.

First impression matters. Call it literal if you will, but to me it's rather a bad first impression.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER58> Must watch Experiments on Happiness - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EnPHxXKtpk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EnPHxXKtpk)

<comment><USER59> Wow. Long video but it was worth every minute.

</comment></comment><comment><USER60> And yet there are whole industries devoted to making us unhappy in the hope that we will then consume more of their product. The beauty industry wants to make us unhappy with our appearance. The self-help industry, wants to make us unhappy with our lives in general. Social media wants us to be outraged and thus more engaged. Advertising in general is built around keeping us from being happy so we will buy more stuff.

We should be aware of that and be very careful about the media we consume.

</comment><comment><USER61> The article is nothing new and just the standard "happiness comes from within" tropes. Whether you believe that or not, this is a very standard view on the subject.

</comment><comment><USER62> For me the secret to happiness is to produce things. Or said another way: be productive. Make something. If you have a job where you make things you are good to go. Homes, cars, ships (in my case in my youth). If you sit at a desk all day processioning forms or work in a call center, find something to produce in your off hours, often called a hobby, but it could be a side gig. Write some code, write a book, paint a mural, whatever.

</comment><comment><USER63> One approach I consistently found to work well is to remove things that don't make me happy. It has a bigger longer term effect than doing|buying more.

</comment><comment><USER64> How to be sad? Convince yourself that your fundamental human needs are not okay, that they only affect you because you are not strong or virtuous enough.

</comment><comment><USER65> My own thoughts on this, not really a contradiction of the article: [http://blog.barrkel.com/2005/10/how-to-be- happy.html](http://blog.barrkel.com/2005/10/how-to-be-happy.html)

The point about writing down to help memory is good. Though I wonder if forgetfulness of bad times isn't part of hedonic adaptation.

</comment><comment><USER66> For me the happiest moment is when I'm able to fully utilize my ability to solve a difficult technical problem.

</comment><comment><USER67> > Actually the regions have comparable life satisfaction, but people say > California because they think of the weather and fail to take account of > other things, such as the fact that California is full of tedious hippies.

Didn't read past this. There's a way to get your point across & this is not it.

</comment><comment><USER68> Happiness is overrated; find something you like doing and do it. A job, a hobby, a pursuit--in short, an avocation.

The greatest horror for me would be to not be interested in anything. So many people seem to have this affliction. That is what I would call unhappiness: to be interested in nothing in particular.

<comment><USER46> Right people always bring up that quote "nobody on their deathbed wished they worked more." But how many people on their deathbed regret a life passed in mediocrity, without at least attempting to master or excel at something; maybe some do wish they worked harder so they could have provided more for their children, etc.

</comment></comment><comment><USER69> I'll settle for being content...

</comment><comment><USER70> Personally, what's helped me is watching Rick & Morty, and it finally hitting home that none of our lives mean anything in the grandest scheme of things, if there is such a thing. So we are free to live as we want. Nobody can judge us except ourselves.

</comment><comment><USER71> There is an amazing course on happiness from Yale: [https://www.coursera.org/learn/the-science-of-well- being](https://www.coursera.org/learn/the-science-of-well-being)

<comment><USER72> The podcast presented by the professor of that course is also excellent. It's called The Happiness Lab with Dr. Laurie Santos.

</comment></comment><comment><USER73> I often inquire 'why is happiness the thing we choose to focus on'

<comment><USER74> I do too; I've had this conversation a few times. Happiness isn't my highest priority, it's up there, but there's a lot of trade temporary happiness for, such as health or sanity.

</comment></comment><comment><USER75> happiness should not be a goal. the way evolution has wired us, we will work for a long time to achieve something that we think is going to make us happy only to move to the next thing after only experiencing a glimpse of happiness.

you have a choice to mindlessly chase what you think is going to make you happy or simply enjoying your current life situation by totally accepting it. you don't need anything besides basic things to make you happy. happy is your natural state and we inflict pain and suffering upon us continually. stop doing it - break the cycle.

</comment><comment><USER76> All other things being equal, happiness is 100% chemical.

Either you're naturally happy, or you're not. Additional chemicals (natural or artificial) can help adjust the dopamine, seratonin and norepinephrine levels that we sense as pleasure for a short time, but that's not happiness.

You can be an unhappy rich person, a poor happy one. You can be a happy paraplegic, or an unhappy Olympic level athlete. You can be happy while in prison, or unhappy while free. You can be happy in chronic pain and happy under intense stress. Or the opposite. Hell could be lonliness, or hell could be other people. It's 100% individual.

Accepting your natural state resets the bar, and lets you live peacefully. Everything else is just trying to be something you're not.

<comment><USER77> You're making a lot of very strong and unsupported statements.

> Accepting your natural state resets the bar, and lets you live peacefully.

"Just accept... that you will always be miserable... and you can live peacefully."

</comment></comment><comment><USER78> > Almost no one thinks about actively retraining the way they think.

A very western perspective. Vipassana meditation practices are essentially doing that, and I am sure lots of meditation types as well.

</comment><comment><USER79> happiness is a vague concept

as long as you're not depressed, you're fine

</comment><comment><USER80> > 'If you look at what people actually do to be happier, it seems nearly > everyone tries to change the external facts: we try to become richer, > thinner, more successful, to find a better house in a nicer area, and so on. > A few of us think about trying to spend less time working, and more time on > hobbies or with friends and family. Almost no one thinks about actively > retraining the way they think. In fact, I don't think this last idea even > crosses most of our minds.'

You might be new to this because you've just started your PhD, but that doesn't mean everyone else is too.

</comment><comment><USER81> To me happiness always comes out from hard challenges. Pushing myself to achieve something that I thought was previously impossible

</comment><comment><USER82> I think the material conditions of one's existence are relevant to happiness. A lot of articles like this, minimalism, tiny houses and living with nothing strike me as boomer media controlled justifications for austerity. Gas lighting a whole generation of people to settle for less because "things" don't matter, money doesn't matter and what really matters is living in a tire shed telling yourself that everything is OK.

Also:

> Actually the regions have comparable life satisfaction, but people say > California because they think of the weather and fail to take account of > other things, such as the fact that California is full of tedious hippies.

I can't eyeroll this enough

<comment><USER83> >Gas lighting a whole generation of people to settle for less because "things" don't matter, money doesn't matter and what really matters is living in a tire shed telling yourself that everything is OK.

Other people telling you what you should want is obnoxious. But I take it as axiomatic that whenever someone is doing that sort of thing, they're really debating themselves. Every debatable assertion is the outward expression of inward uncertainty. It's healthy to accept that.

If someone is telling you things don't matter, then they are trying to convince themselves. And if it makes you angry, then you are trying to convince yourself they do matter. You can just say "maybe, maybe not" and possibly consider experimenting to find out. Get things, give them up. It's inevitable that in life, first you get things and then you give them up, anyway.

</comment></comment><comment><USER84> Entire books and philosophies talk about "retraining the way you think". Not sure, if the author was hiding under a rock, dropped some acid and came with this earth-shattering realization. But ahem, he supposedly has a PHD, so he can get away with it. Most happy people are happy because they have gratitude for the daily things, they don't let negative emotions pull them down and just look at the world with a "glass half-full" view.

</comment><comment><USER85> "Virtue is facing the fact of what _is_ and the facing of the fact is a state of bliss." - J. Krishnamurti

</comment><comment><USER86> I suggest having purpose. Have responsibility, as many find meaning in that.

Good sex helps.

Why does being happy have to be complicated? :)

</comment><comment><USER87> I'm unhappy and yet too lazy to read this. Oh the existential quandary!

<comment><USER88> Prerequisite: techniques for motivation

</comment></comment><comment><USER89> It's weird that this webpage doesn't have a scroll bar on my iPhone.

</comment><comment><USER90> A lot of the points in the article coincide with ideas from the blogger Mr. Money Mustache, who frequently reminds that overcoming hardships is a primary source of satisfaction in life. One example is his piece on the desire for luxury as a weakness, which we should reprogram ourselves to get rid of: [https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/08/29/luxury-is-just- an...](https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/08/29/luxury-is-just-another- weakness/)

</comment><comment><USER91> if happy depends on effort when unable to make effort then cannot be happy

if learnt to be happy without effort then happy always as it does not depend on any effort or outside influence.. final eternal happiness...

</comment><comment><USER92> I think advice like this is unfortunately just bullshit. It's similar to cases of treating depression with drugs when most major depression is actually just a biological response to real, actual sadness and external events.

See for example: [https://grasshoppermouse.github.io/2018/12/16/seven- reasons-...](https://grasshoppermouse.github.io/2018/12/16/seven-reasons-why- major-depression-is-probably-not-a-brain-disorder/)

Of course there can be many reasons for depression or unhappiness. Some people sincerely can benefit from medication. Sometimes therapy is the right option.

But quite obviously the biggest factor is going to be circumstances. Happiness _should be_ a response to circumstances and improvement. It represents increased utility and benefit for you as a person and _obviously_ the biggest part of that is your circumstances, physical, material, getting needs met, having resources and opportunities.

Some part of this can be about contentment or "zen" mental clarity or whatever, but clearly not the majority, or even a large minority.

I feel advice like this is meant to placate people and make them docile and capitulated to their circumstances and borderline lobotomize away their drive for things to be better by trying to change happiness from a fact of circumstances to an "attitude adjustment" - which is awful, no matter what positive spin you want to put on it.

</comment><comment><USER93> Aristotle and Aquinas are indispensible (though you might want to begin with commentaries or approachable introductions, like Feser's). Contrary to the liberal tradition, "freedom" is understood as self-mastery not uninhibited indulgence of the passions which leads to misery (hence the Augustinian observation that man has as many masters as he has vices). Aquinas also distinguishes beatitudo from felicitas. You also have the virtues. Happiness is ultimately teleological.

Look to the ancients and medievals that we so eagerly forget and dismiss because we think we've unquestionably outdone them. Be careful, though, because your fallacious presuppositions may get in the way. They did for me, but with time, those vicious usurpers, that bad metaphysics, that poor substitute for properly understood science, has given way to a sounder picture of things dislodged from the tyrannical grip of error.

All that is to say that you should not be surprised if you find yourself reacting with incredulity until you begin to realize how unfounded and even incoherent it is. Give it time.

</comment><comment><USER94> Being happy is not complicated. There is no purpose or meaning. Nothing matters on a long enough scale. Live completely in the moment with only select, fundamental long term goals in mind.

</comment><comment><USER95> mindfullness sounds like new bullshit buzzword that does not mean anything.

<comment><USER96> Depending on who you ask it will yield a different definition so in that sense, there's some BS baggage, but it's not to say it can't be useful.

</comment></comment><comment><USER97> _Happiness is not an ideal. Happiness is tepid water on the tongue._ \-- Holderlin

 _Man does not desire happiness. Only the Englishman does._ \-- Nietzsche

<comment><USER98> In haven't read Nietzsche, but any time I read a quote of his, it always seems to appeal to the most power hungry part of my ego.

<comment><USER99> I have read some of it, but my take-away from everything changed completely once I saw somebody claiming he was being sarcastic.

And the thing is, I'm almost convinced he wasn't. But it still changed how I read it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER100> I think these are bad tips to be honest. Cognitive Behavioural Therapy - really?

People in countries where psychotherapy is not as prevalent as in the US aren't necessarily unhappier I think.

Some occupations have earned their bad reputation. My opinion. I am not happy with it, but generally quite happy I believe. I don't feel too happy about changing my prejudice towards this field.

Appreciation of what you have is a form of self reflection. Would be good for the occupation to be honest. Suggestion of this form are also often used as a form of psychological abuse. Also a field where this occupations excels in.

<comment><USER101> I'd encourage you to reconsider the article in context of the fact that CBT can be self-taught with no books or sessions - all of this advice is free, and each tip works independently of the others.

I do agree that open-ended talk therapy seems like a waste of time.

<comment><USER102> Open-ended talk therapy is like rubber duck debugging. Sometimes you need an expressive outlet that you can't, for various reasons, find elsewhere. And often a confidant (which a therapist can be) is what you need. Lacking a confidant in normal-life or having issues you feel you can't take to that person, a therapist is a decent alternative.

<comment><USER101> Sorry, I was vague on that term. By open-ended, I meant recurring and without a goal; maybe there's a better descriptive term for it.

<comment><USER102> That's also what I meant. I just moved this year, leaving a lot of friends behind (I'd lived there for 10 years, longest I'd lived anywhere, next longest was 5 years when I was in elementary school). I bought a house, which added a lot of financial stress to my life (ate into savings, in 10 years I'll be better off, but now it's tough). I got into a job that was going to be better, but because someone quit I got saddled with crap work that I'm not effective it _especially_ teleworking (I need to observe how people are working to do what they want me to do, and I literally can't right now). And with social isolation in place, my wife and I cannot effectively make new friends and develop new social outlets. From my own experiences in the past: high stress -> general anxiety -> depression -> very bad thoughts. So I sought out a counselor with no specific objective beyond needing to talk, and to relearn some CBT things that I did learn and exercise years ago. But the primary benefit has been the outlet, I'll probably stop having sessions in a few more weeks as I've finally pinpointed a few specific stressors and been able to focus on resolving them, but the outlet was key to realizing what they were.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Open Textbooks Gaining Ground: Flat World in 400 Colleges - <AUTHOR> http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/open_textbook_program_gaining_ground.php

<comment><USER2> "expensive doorstop collections"

If the textbooks end up being doorstops, maybe the problem is with the courses, not with the books? I like owning the textbooks from courses I really enjoyed.

<comment><USER3> Or it could be something that simply does not make a good reference. I kept many of my math and computer science text books as references for later.

On the other hand, the political science class I took made us read through many books where reading them once was very enlightening, but I have never felt a desire to refer back to them.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Great idea, though I'm wondering if they're offering them in PDF format what's stopping students from paying $1 each and sharing them around?

<comment><USER5> Since they're CC licenced you'd be legally entitled to share them anyway.

Has anyone mirrored the books to break them out of the confusing web site?</comment></comment>


Why I don't worry about Python losing users - <AUTHOR> http://nothingbutsnark.svbtle.com/why-i-dont-worry-about-pythons-popularity <comment><USER2> I like Python's syntax, I enjoy how easy it can be to get up and running with something real. I also like that Ubuntu comes with it, but everything else is crappy. I don't like the package system, pip is not that great and needs work. The almost cult like refusal to upgrade to 3.x weakens the community resulting in less available modules. It's also not a very strong contender for web development.

<comment><USER3> Not as strong as other languages perhaps, but Django & co. are more than capable of turning out nice web stuff.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Slightly OT.

As much as I love Python, in this case a '1-liner' using awk and sort or sed, tr, dd etc. would get you there 'faster'.

awk '{print tolower($0)}' domains.txt > whitelist.txt && cat whitelist.txt | sort -o whitelist.txt

That's probably just because the example is kept simple to illustrate Python's terseness, readability, productivity etc.

</comment><comment><USER4> Totally agree with you; however, I think it showcases that maybe Javascript is now Python's biggest competitor. It is more on the productivity and expressiveness level of Python but now works in a greater number of places than Python. Sure it is not as elegant, but it is improving a lot faster than before.</comment>


T-Mobile settles with FTC for $90M in 'cramming' case - <AUTHOR> http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/12/19/t-mobile-ftc-cramming/20637435/

<comment><USER2> I never really paid much attention to my phone bills (it was set to auto-pay). A few months back I received a letter in the mail about a T-Mobile refund and was quite skeptical. But eventually I found a PR on T-Mobile's own site and so decided to submit a claim. Turns out they had charged me some $200 on fraudulent services that I never asked for or even remember receiving. Rightfully they did refund the amount just last month.

This kind of behavior shouldn't have happened in the first place. I'm happy the FTC is fining them. It's really stupid to steal from your most loyal and trusting customers. Unfortunately, it seems every US carrier did this. What am I supposed to do? Who do I switch to in order to `punish` the terrible companies? I've since turned off auto-pay and switched to a no contract plan. But I really don't know what to do to reward the good players in telecom. It seems there are none.

<comment><USER3> Humanity is working towards a system* that doesn't rely on a large corporation to carry out basic needs like phone calls. Until that happens, this behavior should be expected (if history is any guide, nothing will change in the telecom business soon.)

*e.g. mesh networks, which are technically feasible and highly desirable for end users, so I posit that over time we will drive towards them and get there one way or another.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I was a bit surprised to see this from T-Mobile, but the charges go back to 2010 and it also looks like other major carriers have been hit with similar charges.

T-Mobile still has my vote as the 'least-evil' but it looks like there is still room for improvement.

<comment><USER5> I still wish they could actually admit wrongdoing.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> I don't understand why there's not more of an effort to name-and-shame in these cases. T-Mobile doesn't exist in the abstract: It's people in offices making decisions.

Who is behind this? Who OK'ed it? Who knew?

Name them. Shame them. It's one of society's more powerful tools.

</comment><comment><USER7> I wonder if I was partly responsible for this. I filed an FTC complaint a year or two ago after my T-Mobile bill had bogus charges tacked on for a second time. Customer service _insisted_ it was impossible for charges to be added without my permission and I must have forgotten signing up for daily horescopes.

I'm still a customer. Aside from this, I've been very happy with them. But that really ticked me off. They must have seen the volume of refund requests on these guys and known they were bogus.</comment>


The Winklevosses Vs. Silicon Valley - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2011/07/23/winklevii/

<comment><USER2> A few points.

\- The ongoing coverage of Facebook's birth by the press represents an ongoing epic failure of journalism. This article in particular is more pathetic than most. When I read phrases like "Because wading through piles of legalese isn't something that I (or you) can spend most of my time doing, for better or for worse, I don't understand the ins and outs of the case," it's simply insulting. Alexia Tsotsis, and just as often her colleagues at TechCrunch, should be embarrassed to admit such things. Any real newspaper would fire her on the spot.

\- Facebook did withhold evidence both in the Winklevosses' litigation and my own. It's easy to tell because even after years of said litigation, Business Insider and other sources kept coming out with new IM conversation after new IM conversation. I've still never seen the documents I requested from Facebook in 2008 and 2009 because Facebook claimed they didn't exist. They do.

\- I've never met the Winklevosses or Divya. I wasn't there when Mark agreed to work for them, and Mark didn't tell me about them when I met Mark. In other words, what happened from my perspective was independent of anything they've said or done, and I don't know enough to comment on their personalities. I do, however, know enough to comment on their ethics. They lied on national television when they claimed that they had no prior knowledge of The Social Network on Today (one of the morning shows). Random House's general counsel confirmed that Ben Mezrich interviewed them for The Accidental Billionaires.

\- I did meet Larry Summers during his monthly office hours while he was president of Harvard. His behavior then was reprehensible, and he hasn't changed a bit.

\- Just about everyone primarily involved in this whole story is fairly unpleasant. Relentlessly trying to set the record straight hasn't made me appear much better, but I've done my best to stay away from it all (hence turning down Mezrich's offer to be a "compelling character.") What's truly sad about it is that for seven years now, not a single reporter has done an in- depth investigation in an attempt to get the story right. We all enjoyed the movie, but that's not what happened. And when you start drawing conclusions under headlines like "The Winklevosses vs. Silicon Valley," you're bound to be wrong if you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

<comment><USER3> Aaron,

I do agree that the reporting was pretty bad. But the points you raised were much more grave than the report.

-First of all just because certain IM conversations keep coming out does not prove that certain documents that you or the Winklevosses demand exist.

-I've never met Larry but he is a Silicon Valley insider and close to numerous investors of Facebook. His comments are bound to be biased.

-I think the biggest opportunity you had to get the record straight was the book and ultimately the movie. I can understand not wanting to put your story through a filter but it was a good chance and you missed it. No number of open letters would give you as much visibility as the book and the movie would have.

-I know someone who's very close to Mark who said once that the movie was fairly accurate if a little exaggerated. I don't know who to believe.

Anyways, that's besides the point. Facebook grew to become such a huge company years after Harvard. What happened there probably has very little impact on what Facebook is today and it is a testament to Mark's leadership and entrepreneurship acumen rather than ideas, features or how it was initially envisioned.

<comment><USER2> Whoever you are,

I'm sure you're really smart, but you're one of those people I'm referring to who has no idea what they're talking about. You know someone who knows an unreliable source; I was there.

Aaron

<comment><USER3> This has nothing to do with me being smart. Your remark comes across as condescending. You are right in the sense that I don't have a first hand information (I definitely WASN'T there). I am just telling you another side of the story.

You can keep-on saying 'I was there.' which after a certain point becomes your words against others'. Just because you were there doesn't not lead credibility to your story.

<comment><USER2> Hi,

I wasn't trying to be condescending. I don't know your name because you haven't posted it, and I don't know your background, whereas you know (or can easily find) everything relevant about me. I also have no idea who you know that knows Mark, or exactly what that person said. So you've put me in a position where I have to defend myself against all kinds of unknown variables, and it's not a very generous thing to do to someone. By saying "I'm sure you're really smart," I'm just trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.

You're wrong about it being my words against others' and your comments above make you sound uninformed. I have hundreds of pages of evidence that I have made public, and Mark has admitted in The New York Times that he does not contest my version of events. If I repeat the fact that I was actually there, it's because a lot of people think that having seen a movie, or knowing someone who knows someone, makes them an expert, and that's not always the case.

Aaron

<comment><USER3> Hi,

I posted my name now in my HN profile. It doesn't really mean anything.

I am not per-se attacking you. I am merely commenting on your arguments. I am not especially convinced of you claim that Facebook is withholding just because of the IM leaks. The comment about the movie is about the general accuracy in the depiction of the events. It's a very subjective question and I am sure you are correct about some of the turn of events not being completely accurate and my source being that some events were correctly depicted. (I suspect you guys are talking about different eras in Facebook's history, before and after the move to the silicon valley).

In general my comment is trying to reason why your efforts in setting the record straight, as you claim, have been unsuccessful, why there is still a lot of confusion around the story and why "I was there" is not a good argument especially if you have incentives to misrepresent the facts (I am not saying you are).

<comment><USER2> Prayag,

Thanks. I tend to think that people's names are actually quite meaningful. There wouldn't be so many people who insist on using pseudonyms if this weren't the case.

The definition of withholding is not providing something, and Facebook did not provide documents that it had in both the Winklevoss' case and mine, as I've said. That's not a claim, it's a fact. They had the documents during our respective discovery phases of litigation, they knew they had the documents, and they did not respond to formal requests for documents with the documents they knew they had.

There's confusion around the story to this day, and there will continue to be probably forever, because so many people have gained so much from it. Mark, and by extension everyone who depends (or once depended) upon Facebook for a living, has something to hide. Ben Mezrich needed to sell books. Sony needed to sell movie tickets. The Winklevosses and Eduardo needed to prevail in their litigation. None of these people have had at any point an incentive to provide full disclosure because the facts do not work in their favor. Consequently none of these people have posted documents on-line for the public to see as I have. The facts work in my favor, and that's why the documents are on my web site.

Aaron

<comment><USER3> Aaron,

I am big proponent of pseudonyms on internet. Though I like to associate my real name at certain places like HN. Either way, we are digressing.

So what happened to the documents? How did you procure them? Did Facebook ultimately give 'em up? I am genuinely curious.

I would also claim that you too have something to gain from perpetuating the story in a way which supports your claim since you also entered in litigation with Facebook. In that sense how are you different from Mark, Ben Mezrich, Sony, Eduardo or the Winklevosses? The fact is that things would not change much and you there is nothing to gain from the futile attempts at trying to convince people. Surely, a smart person like you can build a mini facebook on his own. A worthier goal, no?

Prayag</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


All Unregistered 3 Digit .eu domains - <AUTHOR> http://dntalk.xyz/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=57&p=2479#p2479 <comment><USER2> Characters, not digits ;-)

<comment><AUTHOR> Fair point :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Just grabbed one from OVH for 2.49 €, no WHOIS protection for .eu domains though.</comment>