Sugar lobby paid scientists to blur sugar's role in heart disease (2016) - <AUTHOR> https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/sep/12/sugar-industry-paid-research-heart-disease-jama-report <comment><USER2> When I first visited the US about 30 years ago, I was often surprised about how different things like burgers or pizza tasted from here in Europe. It was like eating candy all the time. These days even over here there's sugar in almost everything you can buy.

Side note, not related directly: I was also surprised how in some of those 'health' image supermarkets, the fruits like strawberries looked so perfect, but just had no flavor and tasted just watery. Back here fruits often didn't look so 'television commercial quality', but exploded with flavors. Again, these days even here you have to go out of your way to find e.g. a decent tomato or grow your own.

<comment> cup-of-tea It's very interesting to take apart some typical American fast food like McDonalds or Subway and taste it bit by bit, cleansing your pallet as you go. The bread is literally as sweet as an iced bun or something. Most of the individual components are tasteless with only things like sauces and pickles providing flavour.

I've noticed the same thing in supermarket sandwiches and things in the UK. The one place I haven't noticed it is France. You can buy a sandwich from a railway station or something there and it will actually taste good.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Anyone remember Susan Powder in the 90s screaming about how fat was making you fat? Go checkout the documentary Fed Up, it discusses the massive shift to low-fat-high-sugar foods being the norm in our grocery stores.

And we wonder why we have such massive preventable disease problems in the US. (and we are exporting obesity and diabetes around the world now)

Next time you are at the store, check your labels. Almost everything has sugar in it. There are a dozen names for white sugar now, so check them out.

<comment><USER4> A related anecdote: when I was a child I visited Italy with my family, and I was astonished at how differently pasta sauce tasted in Italy.

I found out much later that the reason was due to the insane amounts of sugar that are in store bought pasta sauces in the US. The sugar is meant to compensate for the low quality, unripened tomatoes that go into cheap pasta sauce brands. To this day, I refuse to use canned pasta sauce. I'd rather make my own.

<comment><USER3> Comparing Italian food to US food will quickly spiral out of control in anecdote-ville. A good friend of mine gets deathly ill from pasta in the US, but can eat as much as she wants in Italy... (glyphosates is what I suspect here)

Also, in Italy, I hear they can just get vine ripened veges almost whenever they want, a bit unfair on the flavor comparison. :(

<comment><USER5> _> glyphosates is what I suspect here_

That is unlikely. [https://www.snopes.com/food/tainted/roundupwheat.asp](https://www.snopes.com/food/tainted/roundupwheat.asp)

<comment><USER3> I no longer trust snopes as I used to.

I got my info from a guy who's job is working in the seed industry confirms they do actually douse the field in glysophates (is round up the only brand? not sure)

Also, if you look into Passover flour, Rabbis will insist on this procedure for their flour to ensure their is no moisture in the wheat before harvest.

Do some more digging instead of just snopes, I suspect they are no longer completely unbiased.

Edit: I am going to ask my friend for any evidence he can provide, or where I can find it, in regards to this issue.

<comment><USER5> _> Do some more digging instead of just snopes_

How about personal experience? I grow wheat. It doesn't get the roundup treatment. That would be a big waste of money. That's not to say that nobody does it, but it's not standard practice. Wheat tends to dry down sufficiently on its own (and there is no such thing as glyphosate-tolerant wheat, so you would never want to apply it through the growing season).

My colored beans on the other hand... They definitely need the desiccation. Out of interest, does your friend get sick from beans (not soy)?

<comment><USER3> Everything I've heard and read is that it's used only at the end of the season, and just before harvest. Snopes seems to poo-poo this idea. So killing the wheat isn't the issue, it's already dead.

No idea why glysophates would be used as a desiccant over other dedicated products... Again, I will be seeing my friend (works in GMO crop industry) in about 2 weeks, and I will discuss this with him in person, since that is who I got this information from.

Edit: I suspect that large companies have little motivation to ensure food is clean and healthy in the same manner as a small farm does. And if you want to play funny numbers, if you do the math, a _large_ percentage of farmers may not use glyphosates, but since there are very few large corporate farms, then that is where Snopes gets it's "small percentage of farmers" comes from. But ignores the fact that a large percentage of the wheat comes from them. Just a logic thought on statical manipulation.

<comment><USER5> _> Everything I've heard and read is that it's used only at the end of the season, and just before harvest._

Naturally. You'd kill your crop off entirely if you did it any sooner. At the end of the season you don't care about killing the crop. In fact, it is desirable.

 _> No idea why glysophates would be used as a desiccant over other dedicated products..._

And often other products are preferred. However, especially in the case of beans I grow, it's common to have secondary growth. In this case, you really do want to kill the plant off completely to ensure it stops producing to allow harvest to begin. It turns out that roundup is really good at killing plants!

 _> I suspect that large companies have little motivation to ensure food is clean and healthy in the same manner as a small farm does._

Margins are tight no matter how large your farm is. I have no idea why a farm of any size of would haphazardly use glyphosate? It is not free, and the cost of apply it certainly isn't either. Application is quite expensive. Just from an economic perspective alone, the idea that large farms would randomly douse their field in roundup makes no sense. It is already a struggle to make money from wheat in this current market.

I can imagine in some climates that wheat suffers from not dying off fast enough, similar to the beans I mentioned before, and glyphosate is used in those circumstances. However, I see nothing to suggest this scenario is common.

Even if, for argument's sake, we say that it is common: Why does your friend only react to glyphosate in wheat but not other food products?

<comment><USER3> >Margins are tight no matter how large your farm is. I have no idea why a farm of any size of would haphazardly use glyphosate?

The way corporate farms work is different (I'd assume based on other experiences) than a private farm. One core concept is time to harvest. There are massive combine harvest schedules that start in the south and work their way north to harvest. If your crop isn't ready on time, the loss in time and cost to come back south could be huge cost. Where if you douse a field with glyphosates, you can guarantee a very specific time for harvest. Both a dead crop, and a dry one. Which makes it so you don't have to use dryers, something common around our parts, that cost a lot of money to run.

So I can see a lot of reasons that it would make sense to intentionally soak a field in the stuff every year weather it killed weeds or not. And this is just off the top of my head.

>Why does your friend only react to glyphosate in wheat but not other food products?

I am not suggesting that is the reason in the first place, it's just a guess. Doctors didn't think unseeable microbes could kill people until the 1800s. And more recently doctors didn't believe it possible that people would have sever reactions to latex, yet we know that is true now. So I am not going to assume anything good about a chemical designed to kill things, and it would be the first thing I'd remove from my diet if I was getting sick like her from eating. (vomitting and in bed with fever for days, ick)

<comment><USER5> _> The way corporate farms work is different (I'd assume based on other experiences) than a private farm._

I don't see it. Again, the tight margins means that any path to productivity is quickly adopted by everyone. Especially when it comes to something you can cashflow like chemicals (fixed assets can be harder to justify for smaller farms).

 _> There are massive combine harvest schedules that start in the south and work their way north to harvest._

The large corporate farms have their own equipment. These harvest crews you speak that travel across the country are more apt to service the small farmer who cannot justify their own combines. If anything, based on your suggestion, that would promote more glyphosate use in small farms than the large farms who have control over their equipment.

But realistically, that harvest run is quite predictable and reliable to begin with. That seems like the least likely place for needing glyphosate on wheat. I'm further east and around here even the small farmers own their own combines due to a small window to get the crops off. You don't dare take the chance on someone else's schedule like you can in more forgiving climates.

> I am not suggesting that is the reason in the first place, it's just a > guess.

Fair enough, but you originally said that I should do some more digging. I'm trying to see the link here, but I'm struggling to see where to go from here. Would you say the problem limited to durham wheat, or all types of wheat?

<comment><USER3> >...tight margins means that any path to productivity

But tight margins for a single family owned farm could vary dramatically to that of a corporate farm, I would estimate. (an educated guess on my part) Especially if you factor in bulk growth of crops, centralized (and likely lobbied) subsidies. And the long term desire to push out all privately owned farms.

An easy comparison here is a mom and pop local hardware store vs a coporate chain store. Or a local grocery store vs the Walmart grocery store. The margins can be less for the coporate, and they will still make more money, and have lower prices. And often times will lose money to grind out the competition.

You seem to think there is an equal playing field, and discussing it that way. From my experience and reading, all things large and corporate have a need for growth inherent in their systems. And the easiest lands to expand into are small farms. Unless you are an organic farmer? (high profit, low yield)

>The large corporate farms have their own equipment.

Are you sure about that? All of them? And even if they have their own equipment, don't they still have to start in the south and work their way north as the harvest seasons shift? Seems like a non-argument.

>But realistically, that harvest run is quite predictable and reliable to begin with. That seems like the least likely place for needing glyphosate on wheat.

I am educated guessing and reporting was I was told. I still want to talk to my friend (GMO worker) as to why he would tell me this. I am now a little more motivated to just give him a call, but he's a busy guy. :P

_Research_

In the mean time I did some research online, it looks like glyphosates applied at the end of the harvest increase yield. () So that would explain any extra cost issues you may think is a deterrent to this practice.

Google search for glyphosates cause hormesis in wheat. It looks like the amount of glyphosates being used is much less than you'd think to get this affect. Which again, would affect the costs. (ie, they'd be a lot lower yet again, because the amounts used are lower than for weed control) Also this effect (hormesis caused by small doses of weedkiller on plants) has not been researched much for health reasons, but may be a well known effect in the corporate farming industry, but not the private farms.

This was interesting to look into. By the time I learn more, I am sure this post will age too far.

\--

One last link, even Bob's Red Mill says he can't be sure if there glyphosates in the wheat he sells. (non-organic)

[https://www.bobsredmill.com/blog/featured- articles/glyphosat...](https://www.bobsredmill.com/blog/featured- articles/glyphosate/)

edit: for clarification.

<comment><USER5> _> But tight margins for a single family owned farm could vary dramatically to that of a corporate farm, I would estimate._

You're right, large businesses have economic advantages, but I think you may have misunderstood me. The large farms have tight margins. The small farms have _no_ margins. I'm not sure why a large operation would throw their profits away to applying glyphosate for, in this context, absolutely no reason.

 _> don't they still have to start in the south and work their way north as the harvest seasons shift?_

Are you sure you're not still thinking of the harvest crews that provide custom harvesting services to other farmers? They absolutely start in the south and work north. These businesses generally do not manage the farms themselves, however. They serve other farmers, typically smaller ones who do not have the acreage to justify the capital expenditure for harvest equipment (the cost of new combine alone is rapidly approaching the $1,000,000 mark).

Assuming we're still talking about the US (like you said, pasta does not cause the same symptoms in other countries) I have found no single grain farm that is large enough to span that large of a distance. Do you have a particular business in mind that I may have missed?

 _> it looks like glyphosates applied at the end of the harvest increase yield._

Increase yield at the _end of harvest_? I mean, I guess. Glyphosate has mass and adding it to the storage bin will increase the stored weight by some amount. You'd make _a lot more_ money selling the glyphosate in its pure form though. It's value by a given mass far exceeds that of wheat. I don't think this is what you really meant.

If you meant soon after planting, I found one study that suggested that a low dose in the 3rd leaf stage could stimulate growth to increase yield. The study was also dated 2016. This is the first I heard of it, and I expect most farmers are in the same boat. The study said that previously this was thought to not be possible. Of those who have tried it, we're talking, what, realistically one crop? Did your friend's problem just start recently when it was previously not an issue?

I'll add that I'd need to see a ~5% yield bump just to cover the cost of application, never mind making additional money. Higher yields alone does not necessarily make it worthwhile, and I'm not convinced that even with the findings of this study that it would be worth it. There are plenty of things you can do to increase yield, but it's still a cost/benefit thing. The goal of farm business is maximizing profit, not maximizing yield.

Also, you didn't answer if your friend's problem was limited to durham wheat or not. You originally suggested that might be the case, but haven't elaborated since. It's fine to look at roundup as a potential reason, but why not discuss all of the potential variables?

 _> One last link, even Bob's Red Mill says he can't be sure if there glyphosates in the wheat he sells. (non-organic)_

Which is quite telling. When you deliver a load of wheat, the destination will take a small sample for further analysis. If that small sample contains glyphosate, they will know about it. The problem is that when you have grain mixed from many sources, that small sample may not be the area of the load that does contain traces of glyphosate. As such, it is quite possible for some to slip through.

The fact that we're only talking small amounts slipping through and not entire loads "doused" in it, goes to show that the practice is not common, which is what I said from the start.

<comment><USER3> >I'm not sure why a large operation would throw their profits away to applying glyphosate for, in this context, absolutely no reason.

It's not for no reason, it appears that it can increase yield.

>Do you have a particular business in mind that I may have missed?

Nope, I am doing educated guessing, as I have mentioned a number of times.

>Increase yield at the end of harvest?

Go do some research, the answer is "yes". Extra wheat berries/bulbs/seeds (?) are grown at the end of the season.

>Did your friend's problem just start recently when it was previously not an issue?

She's had issues for a while, but not her whole life. I'd have to ask. But people who are weaker in general would be affected by lower doses of poison than stronger people. I'd consider her a canary for the rest of us.

>Higher yields alone does not necessarily make it worthwhile...

I am not an accountant, so I can't argue for or against this. But if there is no financial incentive, why would this _ever_ be done? Yet, we know it is being done, it's not a "maybe", it's an absolute.

All we are arguing over is how common this practice is. Which is a fact, something you can't debate, we just need the data.

>Also, you didn't answer if your friend's problem was limited to durham wheat or not. You originally suggested that might be the case, but haven't elaborated since. It's fine to look at roundup as a potential reason, but why not discuss all of the potential variables?

I don't know which specific foods (or which specific wheat types) affect her. I will have to ask her.

>As such, it is quite possible for some to slip through.

The post from Bob's Red Mill was clear, some of his suppliers use it. So nothing is "slipping through".

Also, the yield improvements from hermosis were based on a far smaller amounts than I thought possible. But how much added poison is just fine with anyone?

<comment><USER5> _> It's not for no reason, it appears that it can increase yield._

Based on a study that is so recent, not to mention something that has not proven to pencil out in the first place, that there is no reason to believe it is used widely in practice. _Especially_ for crops before the current one given that the science was completely unknown before that. If your friend's problem just started in the last few months, maybe you're on to something.

But also, I will point out that 3rd leaf stage is quite early in the plant's development. What mechanism allows the glyphosate to remain in the system until harvest? At least with desiccation it is understandable that some glyphosate will come in contact with the actual consumable product. The consumable part doesn't exist in third leaf.

 _> Go do some research, the answer is "yes". Extra wheat berries/bulbs/seeds (?) are grown_

Okay, how? At the end of harvest the crop is out of the field and stored away/already consumed. That's what harvest means, after all. Remember, you literally wrote: _" it looks like glyphosates applied at the end of the harvest increase yield."_

How are the berries that are already in the bin, which could be stored thousands of miles away by that point, maybe even already eaten, going to multiply by you spraying a barren field with roundup?

This is the strangest agricultural claim I have ever heard – and being a farmer, I hear a lot of strange claims about agriculture from 'city folk' who have never been outside of a city.

 _> But if there is no financial incentive, why would this _ever_ be done? Yet, we know it is being done_

We already established it is done for desiccation in certain climates. Your links say so, my links say so. My direct experience with agriculture as a farmer says it is a practice that is done with crops, but not so common in wheat. Your own link even confirmed this. There's really not much more to say about this.

 _> I don't know which specific foods (or which specific wheat types) affect her. I will have to ask her._

How, exactly, have you come up with the theory of glyphosate being the link when it appears that you know almost nothing about her condition? I am starting to get the impression you have an axe to grind rather than an interest in finding out what the source of the problem is, be it glyphosate or something else.

 _> The post from Bob's Red Mill was clear, some of his suppliers use it. So nothing is "slipping through"._

Yes, the post is quite clear. The post explicitly states that some of their suppliers that collect from multiple sources may take in loads that have had glyphosate applied. When you mix those loads in with all of the loads the supplier has collected from many farmers, you're going to have pockets of grain delivered to the mill that cannot be reliably detected for the presence of glyphosate due to the reasons I outlined before. This is what slipping through means in my mind. If the product commonly contained traces of glyphosate, analysis would quickly detect it every time.

<comment><USER3> > _Based on a study that is so recent_

I didn't quote any particular study, you did. I found a few of them, and I am not well enough versed or studied to argue for or against them.

> _...there is no reason to believe it is used widely in practice..._

And I have not provided any proof either, I only reported what I have been told.

> _If your friend 's problem just started in the last few months, maybe you're > on to something._

Nope, she's had issues for years, but have gotten worse over time. But again, related to only some food products, as far as I know. (I have never interviewed her about this, I will now)

> _What mechanism allows the glyphosate to remain in the system until > harvest?_

I am not an expert, you are arguing with me as if I am claiming this, I am not, nor have I. I simply reported a few facts relayed to me from 2 different people, and I did some guessing and reporting of what I found online.

The answer to this question seems to be simple, it's sprayed on the plant while it is still alive, and it doesn't kill it.

Look up hermosis, I can't explain it.

> _How are the berries that are already in the bin, which could be stored > thousands of miles away by that point, maybe even already eaten, going to > multiply by you spraying a barren field with roundup?_

Well, the research I found showed putting small amount of glyphosates on a living plant, not enough to kill it, caused "hermosis" ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormesis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormesis)) in wheat, which caused extra wheat seeds to grow.

> _This is the strangest agricultural claim I have ever heard..._

I didn't make it up, so it would be a decent courtesy of you to recognize that it's not my idea, I am not a scientist, I am just reporting what I read.

> _We already established it is done for desiccation in certain climates. ... > There 's really not much more to say about this._

One of your key arguments against the idea of putting round-up on living wheat crops was because there was no financial incentive. Are you retracting those statements?

> _How, exactly, have you come up with the theory of glyphosate being the link > when it appears that you know almost nothing about her condition?_

Logic. She has very specific illness that she thought was related to GMO wheat. She can eat wheat in foreign countries, and doesn't get sick there. I just found out last week there is no GMO wheat anywhere on the planet, from a friend who works in the GMO industry. And in the same conversation he told me that they spray wheat with glyphosates. It adds up as a distinct possibility.

I have not spoken with either friend since, and was only reporting what I was told by both.

> _This is what slipping through means in my mind._

Everything I understand about the phrase "slipping through" means something gets through, even though it's trying to be stopped. If people know about it, they are "letting it through", I think that's an important distinction.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> > Influential research that downplayed the role of sugar in heart disease in > the 1960s was paid for by the sugar industry, according to a report released > on Monday. With backing from a sugar lobby, scientists promoted dietary fat > as the cause of coronary heart disease instead of sugar, according to a > historical document review published in JAMA Internal Medicine.

Is this article implying that trans fats have been cleared of the charges against them [0]?

[0] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_fat#Coronary_artery_dise...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_fat#Coronary_artery_disease)

I think naturally-saturated fats have mostly been vindicated of the charges leveled against them in the 1950's and 1960's, but the medical guild hasn't updated their message.

<comment><USER7> No trans fat are extremely dangerous and should never be eaten in any large quantity. FDA trans fat ban: Proposal makes clear no amount is safe: [http://www.latimes.com/food/dailydish/la-dd-fda-trans- fats-2...](http://www.latimes.com/food/dailydish/la-dd-fda-trans- fats-20131107-story.html)

Saturated fats are a bit more complicated. There's a little bit of Sat fats in everything, even vegetables and fruits ~0.5-2%. A certain amount is okay, up to about 5-6% of your diet can be sat fats. but you don't want to go more than that, or you risk increasing your LDL. Some people can handle more, some can't, this will vary from person to person. But, if you get back from a blood test and it says your LDL is too high, you'll need to cut back on Sats.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> The corruption is so bad that the sugar industry may have had a hand in writing the import/export laws for Canada. High-fat foods like Soylent are illegal to import there.

<comment><USER9> Soylent the "food" isn't illegal. Soylent the "meal replacement" is.

One of their competitors, KetoChow gets around this by tongue-in-cheek requiring that their Canadian customer add a cup of maple syrup before consuming.

<comment><USER8> Correct, I am referring to Soylent as-is, with its current marketing copy.

The company should not have to suggest unhealthy preparations to get around unjust import laws.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> Science in most cases represents a local maximum... the frontier of our understanding. But having a limited understanding is different from willfully presenting false information.

The latter is unethical and should have consequences, especially when the result is loss of life. Consequences not limited to: admitting that the information is false, loss of license, jail, etc.

</comment><comment><USER11> "Sugar", like "drugs", is too general a term to use in a discussion on health. Glucose and fructose, both forms of sugar, are metabolized differently and have different health effects.

<comment><USER12> People spend far too much time discussing the specifics, like glucose vs. fructose. Then they eat 8500 kcal/day but eat the "right" sugar and they're supposedly healthy. It's easier to care about fancy things rather than the basics.

Physics dominates everything, first and foremost. Thermodynamics governs diet through energy conservation laws that run the universe. That's rule #0. Everything else is maybe 20%. Human biology does not trump the laws of nature.

<comment><USER13> Our body functions predominantly on ATP, not on glucose or fructose or fat or protein. ATP gets generated from those other macromolecules in pretty complicated biochemistry. You're definitely right that thermodynamics governs everything, but it governs it at the ATP level and not at the macronutrient level. Those additional layers of abstraction distort the whole calories in- calories out math.

Eating the "right" thing is more important than eating the "right" number. Consider eating 800 calories of protein versus 800 calories of alcohol (also technically a macronutrient). You're going to metabolize each differently, and you'll probably feel better eating the former than the latter. This is obviously an extreme example, but the point is that things that you eat affect your body in ways beyond that magic calorie number.

<comment><USER14> I can assure you, I feel a lot better after 800kcal worth of alcohol (about 3 beers) than after 800g of protein (a small chicken).

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Nothing to see here ... move along please. Any industry, anywhere, anytime, that has even the slightest threat to their existence from bad news coming from scientific data being published to the mainstream will always have industry players and their respective lobbying groups making various attempts to block, downplay, twist, blur, and other manipulate the storyline. Why? It's simple... if sugar were determined to be a "sinful ingredient" to the health of the masses, the sugar industry would be ruined.

We've seen it over and over again in so many industries (not the least of which is tobacco) that its almost expected and in fact, if you merely attempt to look for these kinds of player actions in any industry, you will absolutely find them.

</comment><comment><USER16> Same report discussed in this post 2 months ago:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15759562](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15759562)

</comment><comment><USER17> There's a good doc on Netflix called "Sugar Coated," that compares the industry to big tobacco.

</comment><comment><USER18> And what would that role be?

<comment><USER19> It causes it.

<comment><USER20> little to no high quality evidence from RCTs to support this view.

<comment><USER21> Because the sugar industry suppressed it... doy.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> sure, sugar is BAD. but this is the meat industry's last diversion before they get scrutinised.</comment>


How to Start Learning Deep Learning - <AUTHOR> http://ofir.io/How-to-Start-Learning-Deep-Learning/ <comment><USER3> From the point of view of a programmer without much background in advanced maths, this is the best short intro to the subject I have found so far:

[https://medium.com/@ageitgey/machine-learning-is- fun-80ea3ec...](https://medium.com/@ageitgey/machine-learning-is- fun-80ea3ec3c471#.7377bbqjf)

<comment><USER4> Really enjoyed reading through that 3 part series. Easier to understand for an average programmer. Another one along those lines: [https://www.oreilly.com/learning/hello- tensorflow](https://www.oreilly.com/learning/hello-tensorflow)

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I am very sorry for the negativity, but that post is just a list of links to Deep Learning and Machine Learning classes compiled by a student. The fact that it made it to the front page of HN proves that there's a massive hip about Neural Network among programmers, but that it sounds like black magic for most people interested in learning them.

<comment><AUTHOR> Lots of people have heard about deep learning but dont really know where to start. When I was starting a year or so ago I was in the same place. I just took the resources that I used to learn about the field and put them all in one place. As far as I know, this hasnt been done before. Im not trying to provide any new insights into deep learning.

<comment><USER6> Greg Brockman (Founder of Open AI) has written this amazing answer:

If you want to read one main resource... the Goodfellow, Bengio, Courville book (available for free from [http://www.deeplearningbook.org/](http://www.deeplearningbook.org/)) is an extremely comprehensive survey of the field. It contains essentially all the concepts and intuition needed for deep learning engineering (except reinforcement learning).

If you'd like to take courses... Pieter Abbeel and Wojciech Zaremba suggest the following course sequence:

\- Linear Algebra — Stephen Boyd's EE263 (Stanford) \- Neural Networks for Machine Learning — Geoff Hinton (Coursera) \- Neural Nets — Andrej Karpathy's CS231N (Stanford) \- Advanced Robotics (the MDP / optimal control lectures) — Pieter Abbeel's CS287 (Berkeley) \- Deep RL — John Schulman's CS294-112 (Berkeley)

(Pieter also recommends the Cover & Thomas information theory and Nocedal & Wright nonlinear optimization books).

If you'd like to get your hands dirty... Ilya Sutskever recommends implementing simple MNIST classifiers, small convnets, reimplementing char- rnn, and then playing with a big convnet. Personally, I started out by picking Kaggle competitions (especially the "Knowledge" ones) and using those as a source of problems. Implementing agents for OpenAI Gym (or algorithms for the set of research problems we'll be releasing soon) could also be a good starting place.

Quora link: [https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-best-ways-to-pick-up- Deep...](https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-best-ways-to-pick-up-Deep- Learning-skills-as-an-engineer/answer/Greg-Brockman?srid=cgo&share=d1ac0da2)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thats awesome, I wasn't aware of this. I slightly disagree with Greg though about the "one main resource". While the DL book is amazing, its not really aimed at newbies, and so I think CS231n is a much better starting point. For example, for a beginner I think the way backprop is explained in Stanford's course is better than the explanation in the book.

<comment><USER6> "One main resource" as in, it goes through all the underlying math required in details etc. It's usually assumed that people entering into DL have some experience with Machine Learning. Of course, for someone staring with ML, CS229 is the first thing she should pick up.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> On a related note, can someone give a glimpse into what is it like to actually change careers from development to ML? How much do you need to learn, what skill level is required, and how do entry ML positions compare with regular mid-senior developer positions in terms of compensation and overall work environment?

<comment><USER8> I know of three paths right now:

\- Get a Master's or PHD

\- Work at Google and wait for your turn to do their internal ML bootcamp

\- Udacity Nanodegree Plus (I would love to hear from anyone who has gotten a job through this)

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> The article mentions [https://www.coursera.org/learn/machine- learning](https://www.coursera.org/learn/machine-learning)

does anybody know:

\- How much work is required by week?

\- Pre-requisite?

\- Programming language used?

Other feedbacks?

<comment><USER10> I'm currently going through the course (at week 5 at the moment).

Work per week: can vary between 6 to 12 hours depending on the week and your background and willingness to dive into some demonstrations.

Pre-requisite: first, you definitely need to save some quality time otherwise you'll drop out (I heard the completion rate is around 10%). I feel that having a bit of matrix computations, algebra background helped. Some parts are easy, other parts are harder (but YMMV).

Programming language used: octave; while it's nice to work at that level of abstraction, I found the "feedback loop" very slow when you submit exercises, so in the end I used [https://github.com/MOxUnit/MOxUnit](https://github.com/MOxUnit/MOxUnit) with [http://entrproject.org/](http://entrproject.org/) to have a faster feedback loop (anyone can email me at firstname.lastname@example.com to get more details). This is especially useful when dealing with vectorization of computations.

Overall I found that the course is great for me (coming from an ETL, programming background with some solid maths exp at some point), and I'm learning quite a bit; a good introduction with a pragmatic viewpoint.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I work in Medical Devices. In one of my jobs, the goal was to collect blood products - Platelets, Plasma, RBCs and keep WBCs at bay - using centrifugal separation. The 'prediction' algorithms would make a best effort prediction on how fast (and when) to run the various mechanical components - the Centrifuge, Platelet, Plasma and RBC pumps to optimally collect these products with minimum variability. Luckily they had the foresight and technical chops to build and collect every little detail about how the devices ran, under what inputs etc. Access to the 'outcome' of the treatment was tricky - <USER2> hospitals/collection centers had to actually measure the actual platelet counts and make sure they enter it into their system. What I'm getting at is that there is a trove of data in Medical Devices - if there isn't, hopefully companies will start collecting data with a view to applying machine learning a few years down the line - and given the complexity of some of the problems, this would be a great field for application.

A couple of years back, there was also talk of Pharmaceutical companies opening up their data for clinical trials. I'm not sure where things are with that effort. If anyone has any info on that, it would be good to know.

</comment><comment><USER12> Here's some free machine learning books to get you started, as well - [https://hackerlists.com/free-machine-learning- books/](https://hackerlists.com/free-machine-learning-books/)</comment>


Ask HN: Are you backing up your Google account? If so, how? - <AUTHOR> From Gmail, GDocs, to Gdrive, I'm very dependent on Google. I know Google isn't going anywhere but things happen or accounts get disabled.<p>What's your contingency plan? <comment><USER2> If you're not aware of Google Takeout[0] I highly recommend looking into it. I take regular backups of my entire account, and persist them on a personal server (which has its own layers of replication.) This may not be the contingency plan you mean, but I've found it to be one useful piece of that puzzle.

[0] [https://takeout.google.com/settings/takeout](https://takeout.google.com/settings/takeout)

<comment> m-p-3 This is IMO the best option. Just wondering, do you automate the process, or you simply take a backup once in a while?

And for OP: the MBOX file format used for Mail works well in Mozilla Thunderbird using this addon ( [https://addons.mozilla.org/thunderbird/addon/importexporttoo...](https://addons.mozilla.org/thunderbird/addon/importexporttools/) ), if you need something to visualize its content easily.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Not using Google is my method for reducing impact.

Even just moving your "root" email off of Google into something like ProtonMail or FastMail would be better.

</comment><comment> Const-me I use MS outlook, setup it to download everything, and backing up the database. Also helps when migrating data to a new PC.

</comment><comment><USER4> I use rclone to sync my drive to backblaze b2 daily. This runs in my personal cluster as a CronJob. The initial egress cost was steep but i'm not generating 100s of GB a month.

I download takeouts once a month and store them in drive to cover the other google data.

I have bucket versioning in b2 and only delete items manually every now and then.</comment>


Tell HN: BBC Newsnight reports Higgs Boson sighting will be revealed next week - <AUTHOR>

Lengthy piece on BBC Newsnight reporting Higgs sighting at LHC is to be reported next week - any more details? <comment><USER2> Link: <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/9657547.stm>

</comment><comment><USER3> How appropriate he refers to it as his 'holy grail quest'.</comment>


Ask HN: Can anyone recommend a designer? - <AUTHOR>

My startup (SeatGeek.com) needs a graphic designer to do a few pages for us.  We're looking for someone (a) very familiar with the Web 2.0 look/feel, (b) highly professional and (c) capable of quick turnaround times.<p>Has anyone here used designers with whom you had a great experience?  Any recommendations would be much appreciated. <comment><USER2> I'm a designer, and would love to give it a shot.

<http://www.venturemedias.com> (portfolio)

<comment><USER3> hey - we're a Boston based dev team and always on the look up for talented design guys. drop us a line if you're interested.

<comment><USER2> awesome, I'll shoot you a message through your contact form

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> 99designs.com

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah, I've used 99designs in the past but I've never been completely satisfied with work from there. I find that even the best results look a bit amateurish compared to the work of a high-quality web designer.</comment></comment>


Google's car upsets the media – 1M miles/0 accidents - <AUTHOR> http://www.skepticink.com/incredulous/2015/05/14/googlecars-1-million-miles-with-0-accidents-upsets-media/

<comment><USER2> Whenever I read an article on self-driving car having accidents, the focus is on the fact that the accidents were caused by humans, not the self-driving cars. In my opinion, that does not matter at all. Driving a car responsibly is about predicting possible problems caused by other drivers and actively avoiding them. There are many bad drivers out there and until self-driving cars replace all of them, they have to be ready to deal with them.</comment>


Buy a Pagerank 7 link from Google.com for $1995 - <AUTHOR> http://www.seroundtable.com/archives/015481.html

<comment><USER2> Remember that page rank is distributed based on the number of links on the page. The more links, the less PR you will get. There are a ton of links on that page, it is not worth $166 a month.

</comment><comment><USER3> Will any startups try this? I've never been able to break past a PR of 5 no matter who links to me it seems. Any advice?

This is the site I'd most like a higher PR on answermysearches.com

</comment><comment><USER4> Surely Google isn't stupid enough to include their own domain when calculating pagerank... do they?

<comment><USER5> Google doesn't like special cases. As you can see from the reply by Matt Cutts, they actually fixed this on the content side.

<comment><USER6> Wonder why they didn't use NOFOLLOW.

<comment><USER7> Maybe googlebot doesn't actually respect nofollow? hmmm....</comment></comment></comment></comment>


A (better?) variation of the Win 7 taskbar and OS X dock. - <AUTHOR>

If an app is not running, show its icon in the dock.
If it is running with one window, show the window live in the dock with the app icon small at its corner and the document title below it.
If it is running with more than one window, do the same thing but cycle between the open windows, display each window for a few seconds.
=== UPDATE:  Another variation:
How about showing a full size icon with the live previews immediately to its right and without the cycling?
Example: [firefox icon] [firefox win1] [firefox win2] [eclipse icon] [itunes] [itunes win] etc.
Clicking on an app icon always opens a new window.
Applications with open windows could be shown first. If there isn't enough horizontal space for all the icons and previews, the user could use the mouse to scroll the dock horizontally and/or some icons/previews could be reduced in size. <comment><USER2> Stuff alternating on my display when I'm focused on something else is very irritating.

I think a user interface / window manager should be as quiet as it could possibly be so you don't get distracted.

</comment><comment><USER3> The main issue with that solution: Each application no longer looks the same. In OS X, Mail would look a lot like iTunes, Word, TextMate -- because they're all predominantly white-background with black text. The taskbar/dock would soon look like a bunch of windows, but you'd expend more energy to determine which one was which.

<comment><AUTHOR> Ok, how about including the full size icon among the cycling of open windows?

<comment><USER3> Then you'd see something different every time you looked over to find your application. Consistency seems like something worth keeping.

A large app icon with a tiny preview might work, but that's obviously not much better/different than the standard OS X dock.

<comment><AUTHOR> How about showing a full size icon with the live previews immediately to its right and without the cycling?

Example: [firefox icon] [firefox win1] [firefox win2] [eclipse icon] [itunes] [itunes win] etc.

Clicking on an app icon always opens a new window.

Applications with open windows could be shown first. If there isn't enough horizontal space for all the icons and previews, the user could use the mouse to scroll the dock horizontally and/or some icons/previews could be reduced in size.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


All Hail the Condom King - <AUTHOR> https://www.gatesnotes.com/Health/Heroes-in-the-Field-Mechai-Viravaidya <comment><USER2> Back in college I had the great fortune of going to Thailand for 3 months and working for Mechai's non-profit. The man is a legend for real and this article barely scratches the surface. While it started with condoms his organization has done so much more since.

My student group worked with Thai students and we visited villages where the PDA had installed solar powered water pumps. We were basically tasked with checking in and seeing how it was going.

The whole experience really changed my perspective on a lot of things. Mechai's approach is based on empowering communities instead of telling them what to do. And guess what? It works.

As a bonus, here is a picture of me with an anthropomorphic condom I met at a Cabbage's & Condoms restaurant: [https://imgur.com/a/pRnCrh9](https://imgur.com/a/pRnCrh9)

Also, Mechai's TED Talk is worth checking out: [https://www.ted.com/talks/mechai_viravaidya_how_mr_condom_ma...](https://www.ted.com/talks/mechai_viravaidya_how_mr_condom_made_thailand_a_better_place?language=en)

</comment><comment><USER3> Meanwhile in Mississippi, public school educators have had to resort to teaching kids how to put on socks[1] due to state legislation disallowing condom demonstrations[2,3].

1\. [https://youtu.be/06kT9yfj7QE](https://youtu.be/06kT9yfj7QE)

2\. [https://law.justia.com/codes/mississippi/2013/title-37/chapt...](https://law.justia.com/codes/mississippi/2013/title-37/chapter-13/sex- and-abstinence-education/section-37-13-171)

3\. [https://mississippitoday.org/2016/03/29/mississippi- extends-...](https://mississippitoday.org/2016/03/29/mississippi-extends- abstinence-based-sex-ed/)

<comment><USER4> All that is human must retrograde if it does not advance. - Edward Gibbon

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Gates also has interest in condoms as a technology: [http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/201...](http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2015/04/latex_condoms_are_the_worst_why_after_all_these_years_don_t_we_have_a_better.html)

 _Resnic is not the only one who has been trying to build a better condom. In November 2013, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation began distributing $100,000 grants to teams of researchers who'd submitted proposals for "the Next Generation of Condom." The Gates Foundation hopes that at least one of the grantees will develop a product that men in the developing world want to use, which will consequently have "substantial benefits for global health, both in terms of reducing the incidence of unplanned pregnancies and in prevention of infection with HIV or other STIs." The winning proposals include Resnic's; a condom made of graphene, which is a form of carbon that's a single atom thick; a condom incorporating plant-based antioxidants; and an "ultra- sheer wrapping condom" made of polyethylene, a type of plastic often used in packaging. Meanwhile, in 2014 a California inventor raised more than $100,000 on the crowdfunding site IndieGoGo to develop the Galactic Cap, a condom designed to fit snugly on the head of the penis while leaving the shaft bare._

I don't know what's happened since 2013, though; there do not seem to be any readily available updates in the last couple years.

<comment><USER6> According to the Galactic Cap website[0], they're looking for $500,000 to go through clinic trials. ...although they're taking orders on their site? That seems... weird. Each condom is $20. Hopefully the price will go down.

Also, careful of that video. I never would have thought I'd see a Fleshlight and a dildo together, but: there you go.

[0] [http://galacticcap.com](http://galacticcap.com)

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> > When people in Thailand want a condom, they don't call it a condom. Instead, > they refer to it by the name of the man who taught them the importance of > using one—they ask for a "Mechai."

In Thai culture as I understand it this is indeed quite an honor. What an achievement.

<comment><USER8> What is something else in Thai that is referred to in a similar way?

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> I remember last time I went to Bangkok, there was a condom themed restaurant that was pretty good. It was on the first floor of the ministry of health, which I thought was pretty interesting.

Still a really weird concept for a restaurant though.

<comment> village-idiot Fantastic concept if your primary goal is making the subject non-taboo rather than selling lots of food.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> A couple of unrelated notes.

(1) I love the "nerdiness" of not realizing that his (caveat) doesn't fix what he was trying to fix.

 _I've never met anyone who knows how to have as much fun with condoms (in public, anyway)_

(2) Reading gates notes these last few years, I really like Bill, or at least the literary Bill. There's an honesty in the way he writes that's just likable. A lot of Warren buffet in his style.

<comment><USER11> Bill Gates is a great guy if you are not standing between him and one of his goals.

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> That's all awesome! Now can we get some funding for trials of RISUG? Mr Gates? or at least thoughts on that.

<comment><USER13> Vasalgel, a similar technology, is under development in the United States. Entirely unrelated to Gates to my knowledge.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> What's with the comment section. Has anyone else noticed more and more word- salad-AI-bots in comment sections? To what end are ppl building and deploying these things?

"Nice someone replied, we can make the debate hot and up the discussion. I saw, maybe, with defined purpose, to motivate me to participate, people kidding with de Funny Balloons the Condom, so, if I could elaborate a campaingn, (Please don't get me in touch with politicians, prefer tech tycoons, movies tycoons....). Anyways, returning, I would elaborate a campaingn with a "kids kit" with real fun balloons, trying to avoid, the people use the Condom to fun. If people use the Condom to fun, the real utility get lost. Resume: LOL; Campaing, explaining about don't use Condom to other purposes. If can the involved combine the 2 pratices? The Condom, besides the female, so usefull, indispensable in fact but, I guess, with any Medical or public health formation, injectable, more effective and some, 3 months of safety. Doing the math maybe a little expensive for governments, 3 to 3 months, the women getting a injection, vacine. Maybe doing the math, more efective to try to resolve the populational growth without control. We have to remember the following. Abbandoned people, in anyway tend to search for bad things. Crimes, drugs, go out home, etc. I see some times, rich people abbandoned, so, maybe, worth to think what is more expensive for the system. A correct, effective born control or the troubles caused with the excess of sons or not structured families. Many questions need to be checked. Religion, Value, if worth, ages, fertility, anyways, it's a multi disciplin debate. Health workers, politicians, activists, companies, government, technology, my old area, is the less useful and THERE ARE A LOT OF SOLUTIONS READY."

<comment><USER15> To me, that reads like stream-of-consciousness comment by a non-native speaker, not a bot. It's civil, so it would fall in the top half of YouTube comments, but it doesn't make a substantive point so it would get flagged on HN.

A large number of people can't write a comment with a clear thesis and supporting arguments. Most college grads can, but most of the world hasn't gone to college.

There is lots of crap in the comments section of blogs of famous people, because lots of people want to think "I spent the morning schooling Bill Gates!" A wiser person might prefer to be schooled _by_ Bill Gates.

<comment><USER16> It reads like someone may also be posting in snippets from Google Translate when they didn't know the proper English phrase, or at least abusing a dictionary/thesaurus.</comment></comment></comment>


NFC enabled business cards - <AUTHOR> http://www.moo.com/blog/2012/09/27/the-business-cards-of-the-future-nfc/ <comment><USER2> I should get some with my URL set to tel: _2767_ 3855# . I'm sure there's a case to be made for NFC, but I'm not totally sold on the value of invisible things that cause phones and other electronics to do things.

<comment><USER3> One of the primary features of NFC is the requirement that you be near (within inches of) the NFC tag in order for it to work. One useful application I've seen for this is a custom NFC tag someone placed in a homemade docking station to activate their phone's dock mode. Another was used in a homemade Gameklip[0]-type device to activate bluetooth and connect with the controller.

[0] <http://thegameklip.com/>

<comment><USER2> And what happens when they're hidden in a perfectly ordinary desk blotter in a hotel room in Silicon Valley?

<comment><USER4> You've got the first act to a corporate espionage story.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Apparently the NFC opens a link to a QR code.

<comment><USER6> Ha very funny. My first thought was 'this sounds awfully a lot like a QR code'.

Also, as an iPhone user I feel NFC is not used nearly enough. Maybe Android users feel differently but until NFC is brought to the iphone I just dont see this being that useful.

I think NFC is great for things like payment. I actually used it for the first time in a new AMEX credit card that I got by just being able to tap the card on the register. It would be even cooler if someone would make it widely adopted on phones now. I'm sure it's just a matter of time.

<comment><USER7> As an Android user, I've used NFC primarily to share apps with other users. I just open the app, tap phones, and presto they've got the Play Store open with the app.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> No! Bad!

You would only ever need one paper NFC card (for yourself). The whole idea is to store the info digitally. That's what NFC is for. In fact, even one paper business card is too many if your phone supports NFC.

<comment><USER9> According to TFA, you get one NFC card with a pack of plain-paper cards, so that you can give paper to someone without NFC and lend the NFC card to someone with a supporting phone.

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> Hahaha. Figure this: "Do you have a card?", "Not only have I got a card, I've got an NFC-enabled card. Put it against your phone and let magic happen." Awkward but hey I want one.

<comment><USER11> And the inevitable pickup line, "Got a card?" "Sure rub your phone on my pants pocket"

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> For read only data (such as business card data), what is the benefit of using NFC over RFID? I was under the impression that NFC is backwards compatible; can Android devices with NFC scan RFID tags?

<comment><USER13> NFC is a subset of RFID. There are many RFID frequency bands.

Android devices can read most 13.56mhz tags... but none of the other bands.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> What's the benefit over just using a QR code on the back of your card? _Every_ modern smartphone can scan QR codes. Only a small fraction can use NFC, and it surely increases the marginal cost of each card more than a double sided print.

<comment><USER15> I think there's a lot more friction involved in interacting with a QR code: tapping a phone to a surface is a lot easier than opening the appropriate app and trying to focus (hard in low light) on the code.

<comment> angry-hacker But it's not like NFC based card would solve this problem, you should still give a permission (I think) if you want the contact to be added to your phonebook etc.

I understand you have to put the card very close, 3-4 cm or so to the phone but otherwise it would be good way to troll or scam people... create a fake card and the name would be Your Mom, actually call to a friend/extremely expensive number... or things like that.

<comment><USER15> NFC could easily be implemented so that permission isn't necessary, but even then tapping on one's screen (only the sender has to tap in the existing implementation of Android Beam) is much lower friction than scanning a QR code.

<comment><USER16> swipe>unlock password> 123456 AppX>locate, open Permission?>Y/N

Its not frictionless either way. NFC cannot be trusted. You need to aknoweldge Y/N prior to letting anything write data onto a phone. Too much risk otherwise.

<comment><USER15> You don't need to location AppX, the Android Intent system (Android being the only consumer mobile platform with an NFC implementation at the moment) can respond to the data in the NFC tag and open the appropriate app.

I'm not claiming it's frictionless, but just that there's less friction than a QR code.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I love the concept of this product, especially in the context of contact exchanges and "business card replacements."

If implemented and adopted by the masses, something like this embraces the digital realm without forgetting the physical.

</comment><comment><USER18> When there are enough NFC enabled phones out there to make this useful, the card owner will most likely have an NFC phone also. 2 NFC phones nearby will make this card a bit unnecessary.

</comment><comment><USER19> Great idea, though I hope there reading this and start selling NFC proof wallet holders for them.

What with all these NFC pass's for this and that and now credit cards, you would think somebody would sell proper protective wallets for them to prevent the details being read by passers by and the like (there be kit that can read them from across the street for a while now, its radio based after all).

Still, I'm impressed at the way there testing the market for them and promoting them, genuis.

<comment><USER20> There is already plastic sleeves [1] with the same effect. The primary goal is to prevent interferences between all the NFC cards you'll have in your wallet (Yes, that's not a problem to have in the US for a few more years)

[1]<http://flux.bz/whatis.html>

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> I did this in Jan 2011: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjUoSO__Bno>

I also recently added an NFC tag to my iPhone 5: <http://i.imgur.com/1pQxJ.jpg>

<comment><USER21> Could you please link to this NFC tag - where can you buy it?

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> I just bought a pack of those cards a few days ago. There is a high likelihood that my cards have chips embedded. I will write a blog post testing them if that turns up true.

</comment><comment><USER23> So now my iphone 5 needs a nfc reader - anyone build one yet?

<comment><USER24> Tether it to a Samsung S3...

<comment><USER25> Or the better HTC One X... :oP

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> That's a nice idea and execution. But I really think about the role of paper business cards today. Is it still a necessity?

</comment><comment><USER27> A friend of mine was doing them for posters to give feedback on them. Don't know how that's going to work.

</comment><comment><USER28> Why not just have a phone with NFC instead of cards?

<comment><USER29> Because as soon as you meet someone who doesn't have NFC (iPhone) you're going need that card.

<comment><USER28> Then the NFC of the card won't work. You may as well have a regular card then!

<comment><USER29> Why not both? :)</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Why entrepreneurs should love rap music - <AUTHOR> http://areallybadidea.com/why-entrepreneurs-should-love-rap-music <comment><USER3> I have to say, I'm more a metal-head than anything... about 90% of the time, I want Metallica, Iron Maiden, In Flames, Children of Bodom, Testament, Slayer, Mötley Crüe, Queensryche, Dimmu Borgir, Cinderella, Exodus, Incantation, Nuclear Assault, Overkill, Megadeth, Finntroll, Gamma Ray, Kamelot, Stratovarius, etc. playing...

But the other part of the time, I freely admit to having a soft-spot for gangsta rap, especially Dr. Dre, Eminem, 50 Cent, Tupac, Obie Trice, Snoop Dogg, N.W.A., etc. There is definitely an attitude present in that music that is very motivational in it's way. Like the article says... there's a lot of focus on hard-work, on success, on achievement, etc. Something like "Till I Collapse"[1] by Eminem gets me as fired up as anything.

Then again, that's not to take anything away from a song like "Keep Your Eye on the Money" [2] by Mötley Crüe, either. \m/

[1]: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUwXJODauxs>

[2]: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kGOCcjPqnY>

<comment><USER4> Not to mention that even the most gangsta of gangsta rappers still have songs on their albums that are focused on telling stories in a poetic way. Even 50 Cent, who's one of the most anti-intellectual of mainstream rappers, writes lyrics like "God's the seamstress that tailor fitted my pain."

People write off hip hop, and it's really unfair. Sure, there's a lot of crap out there, but if I wrote off rock music because of Fallout Boy and Creed, I'd be seriously missing out.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Wow, these "why entrepreneurs should..." articles weren't very to good to begin with. Now, they are just outright silly.

<comment><USER6> Agree. Post is mostly just authors personal opinions, marketed as the truth.

Example:

>> or redneck issues (country).

Country music has a lot of texts about hard work too.

<comment><USER7> I think the author has a good point though that rap is the only genre that really embraces commercialism/capitalism/enrichment in the lyrics themselves (albeit usually mixed in with a criminal fantasy element).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I'm just gonna drop this here, because I think it will appeal to the geeks here.

Last Emporor's "Secret Wars", which is a fantastical tale about a battle between his favorite emcees and his favorite Marvel comic book characters.

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPjPGeYlMU>

 _What if I had the power to gather all of my favorite emcees With the illest comic book characters and they became arch enemies? Inconcievable? Unbelievable? Yet as wild as it seems The Emperor and Stan Lee would coach the two opposing teams_

<comment><USER7> You might like this, storytelling rap EP about apocalyptic human-AI war (from the robot perspective...)

<http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=240817>

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Somewhat ironically, the best rapper ever (IMO) is a staunch Marxist. Although I guess he's also an entrepreneur. I'm taking about Boots Riley - <USER2> disagree with his politics but can't deny the unparalleled quality of his two masterpieces:

 _Me and Jesus The Pimp in a 79 Grenada Last Night

Fat Cats, Bigga Fish_

</comment><comment><USER8> I don't get quite the same sense from most hip-hop, though I agree it does have some of the elements he lists. But there's a vague anticapitalist current buried in even the bling-rapping, where capitalism is seen as a rigged game that you have to figure out how to beat, whether by legal means or otherwise.

</comment><comment><USER9> It all makes sense now! "Move bitch, get out the way" must be about surpassing your competition!

</comment><comment><USER10> I listen to so many podcasts that it's hard for me to fit music in. I've started listening to "This Developers Life" which mixes in some nice music though.

<http://thisdeveloperslife.com/>

</comment><comment><USER11> He's making a good point. However, he's overlooking the crystal clear fact that psytrance, a subgenre of electronic, is about transcendence almost above and beyond everything imaginable in this particular universe.

</comment><comment><USER12> This is on heavy rotation over here

[http://listen.grooveshark.com/s/Hustle+Hard+remix+noshout+/3...](http://listen.grooveshark.com/s/Hustle+Hard+remix+noshout+/3xvuWw?src=5)

</comment><comment><USER13> Here's a rap song I'm sure everyone of us here will like: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdS3WVYr834>

</comment><comment><USER14> No one should "love" the kind of rap music that the author is talking about. The love and worship of "gangsta rap" has the black community in shambles.

<comment><USER15> > _The love and worship of "gangsta rap" has the black community in shambles._

Do you seriously think "gangsta rap" is the cause of ills among blacks? Do you similarly blame violent video games for teen/young adult violence?

<comment><USER16> I'm not entirely sure the comparison is valid. Music tends to have a greater cultural influence than video games. Not to mention having real-life idols that proscribe to the 'gangsta' way of life. In fact, I think its people rather than the music that causes the deeper cultural influence.

Admittedly, gangsta rap that describes the ways of inner-city life is an artistic statement. I suspect the parent was talking about the certain sub- genre of gangsta rap that eulogizes and encourages a violent life.

To answer your first question (even thought you asked the parent), I can't believe that music of any form can possibly be the cause of ills among the black community.

<comment><USER14> "I can't believe that music of any form can possibly be the cause of ills among the black community."

That's because you aren't black, and you wouldn't know. It's not just music, it's the mainstream media as a whole, and how they depict a successful black.

The black youth don't get to see the successful black businessman, lawyer, doctor or politician. The ghetto drug dealer who became a rapper and now has millions, athlete, etc. are the only success stories we are fed with, on a daily basis.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


SVNGR CEO: We've seen a ridiculous spike - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2010/05/19/scvngr-ceo-weve-seen-a-ridiculous-spike-video/

<comment><AUTHOR> SCVNGR is the Google-backed contender in the location wars.

<comment><USER2> Was one of the 2008 DreamIt companies too.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> I suppose "Subversion (svn) is GReat" would be a good way to memorize that weird name.

Edit: HN title says SVNGR, actual company name is SCVNGR

<comment><USER4> To be fair, there's a "C" in there, but that's exactly what I saw when I saw the name. This is taking the dropping vowels of Web 2.0 a bit too far. Flickr I can get, but it takes me a sec to realize scvngr is scavenger.

"So what's your company's name?" "Scavenger." "Oh great, scavenger.com?" "Oh, no, scvngr.com." "I'll be sure to remember that one."

<comment><USER3> Damn, I really saw it the wrong way :-) Thanks for the correction.

Scavenger would never have occured to me. But if the business modell is professionally organized scavenger hunts, it makes sense.</comment></comment></comment>


If a Build Takes 4 Hours, Run It Every 4 Hours - <AUTHOR> https://pipelinedriven.org/article/if-builds-take-4-hours-run-them-every-4-hours <comment><USER2> Discussed here:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22914197](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22914197)</comment>


Running the Acme Editor on Debian on Windows - <AUTHOR> http://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=45547 <comment><USER2> This is so cool!

I didn't realise that WSL supports Debian and that Xming is good enough to get running. I have a spare Windows machine — maybe it's time to give WSL a shot …

<comment><AUTHOR> As far as I can see, the Windows Store provides Ubuntu, openSUSE, Kali Linux, Debian, and SLES as of today. This might change in the future. The number of Windows X servers is still rather small, there are Xming, VcXsrv and that's about it, I guess. (Please correct me, anyone.)</comment></comment>


I'll find you and I'll kill you - <AUTHOR> to the still unknown installed extension that refreshes all of my 400 open tabs each time I install an extension. <comment><AUTHOR> here are the culprits, never even used them.

Stackup: [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/stackup/dpinfolakh...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/stackup/dpinfolakhcnlgkdbodgabnliglebhbg?utm_source=chrome- app-launcher-info-dialog)

LINER: [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/liner-private- webp...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/liner-private-webpdf- high/bmhcbmnbenmcecpmpepghooflbehcack)

note to thy self: DON'T INSTALL WHAT YOU WON'T/DON'T USE.

</comment><comment><USER2> lol you should install the "Great suspender"</comment>


Software Entrepreneurs Must Go Mobile-First Or Die - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2014/07/12/software-entrepreneurs-must-go-mobile-first-or-die/

<comment><USER2> It really depends on what kind of business you want to build, and in what kind of market. You shouldn't even want to be a software entrepreneur, you should want to solve a problem / improve things. Some problems can benefit more from mobile than others. For example, PCs are great for high I/O tasks like authoring and formal communication, while smartphones are great for low I/O tasks such as consuming infotainment and informal communication. Most areas involve a mixture of those, and which should be your first priority depends on your area.

For example, meetup.com is quite PC-oriented, which almost seems odd for a new social networking platform, but being able to easily publish and read detailed meetup descriptions is critical to its success. That doesn't mean meetup.com cannot benefit a lot from mobile (I wish it did), but it shouldn't be its first priority.

</comment><comment><USER3> It really depends on what kind of software you're doing. Games, yeah. Social networks, yeah. But mobile devices suck for any kind of document creation, and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. The iPad is okay if you have a Bluetooth keyboard, but if you're going to lug that around you might just as well have a Macbook Air.

</comment><comment><USER4> Am I the only one to find most mobile websites worthless? They try to be too clever and hide too much stuff. Or worse they only expose a small piece of functionality. I rented a car once and needed to look my reservation up on my phone at the counter. The mobile website would only let me book a new reservation and had no link to the desktop version. Yeah the article recommends apps over the websites. But now I have to spend time downloading something that also may have worse functionality.

</comment><comment><USER5> Purely in terms of revenue stream, I wonder if Mobile Advert has caught on to Desktop. If you rely on advert may be Desktop is still a good place to start first?</comment>


Israel's Butterfly UAVs - <AUTHOR> http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=4294

<comment><USER2> Just in case anyone is wondering what the USAF is dreaming up for drones over the next 50 years: <http://www.uadrones.net/military/research/acrobat/090724.pdf>

</comment><comment><USER3> Harvard recently developed an improved manufacturing technique for similar robots based on self-deforming materials and origami construction techniques:

[ [http://www.seas.harvard.edu/news-events/press- releases/pop-u...](http://www.seas.harvard.edu/news-events/press-releases/pop- up-flying-robots) ]

</comment><comment><USER4> The latest New Yorker also has an interesting article on drones:

[http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/05/14/120514fa_fact_...](http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/05/14/120514fa_fact_paumgarten)

</comment><comment><USER5> Clearly the reporter has dialed up their glasses to 100% rose tint :-)

There are power, material, and optical problems that have 10 year lifetimes between this vision and reality.

</comment><comment><USER6> The time-lines seem unrealistic. While the mechanical design seems impressive, what about imaging, computing, and comms?

I.e. it's one thing to make a mini UAV flight demonstrator, but quite another to put a payload on it and have it transmit data over a usable range, for a useful length of time.

<comment><USER7> You might be surprised to see what hobbyist-grade gear is capable of today.

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zogJ-hIM-90>

and some discussion of it:

<http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1650766>

That's only a few hundred bucks worth of off-the-shelf equipment (and a fair few tens or hundreds of hours worth of acquiring the skills needed to make it all work together)

<comment><USER6> The original article is about a UAV that masses 20 g, whereas the links you mention have video from a Funjet, which is has a mass of 550g, according to this: <http://www.barnardmicrosystems.com/L4E_arctic.htm#x3>

So, that's 27x the mass -- a completely different problem in terms of engineering.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Just make the wings of semi-transparent solar cells ([http://www.theverge.com/2012/4/19/2958923/flexible- transpare...](http://www.theverge.com/2012/4/19/2958923/flexible-transparent- solar-panel-heliatek)) and you've made it immortal (at least during the day).

<comment><USER9> You wouldn't be able to collect enough energy, solar energy is very diffuse, and those wings are tiny.

<comment><USER10> Maybe not for continual use, but if you had it land and charge then launch again, you'd greatly increase the deployment time, range, and utility of such a device.

Put a microphone or timed camera on it, and it would be pretty slick.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> 1\. Re: airports and train stations - its much easier and more productive to hijack security cameras.

2\. Re: forests and jungle - much better results can be achieved by implanting cameras and control chips into real birds.

</comment><comment><USER12> 20 grams? [http://www.delfly.nl/?site=DIII&menu=&lang=en](http://www.delfly.nl/?site=DIII&menu=&lang=en) is almost an order of magnitude lighter.

<comment><USER13> I am sure that weight/size isn't the only parameter they're optimizing around. Likely battery life/flight range is the other primary parameter and optical & audio quality and transmission range secondary priorities they would be considering.

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> Use the butterflies to identify privacy-invading butterflies.

<comment><USER15> ... and then destroy them with robotic spur-winged plovers.

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> Would the technology demonstrated to target and destroy mosquitoes with lasers be useful in some application against these?

</comment><comment><USER17> Imagine gaming the stock market with one of these. Just fly it into your nearest Fortune 500 boardroom.

</comment><comment><USER18> Nobody ever suspects the butterfly.

</comment><comment><USER19> It would be best if israel didn't have these.

<comment><USER20> Tell us why.</comment></comment>


The most important thing in the morning. - <AUTHOR> http://danielkostelni.bl.ee/blog/important-thing-morning/

<comment><USER2> google cache: [http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:H8-USbN...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:H8-USbNEVi4J:danielkostelni.bl.ee/blog/important- thing-morning/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks,my website got down because of this huge traffic.</comment></comment>


Car Thieves Arrested After Using Laptop and Malware to Steal More Than 30 Jeeps - <AUTHOR> http://abc13.com/automotive/hpd-crooks-armed-with-laptop-stole-30-cars/1457015/ <comment><USER2> More details from this article:

[http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston- texas/houston/a...](http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston- texas/houston/article/Police-Suspects-used-laptops-to-steal-cars- in-9123735.php)

Quote:

Berj Alexanian, a spokesman with Fiat Chrysler Automobiles, said officials know how the Jeep Wrangler was stolen. According to Alexanian, the thief broke into the vehicle and used a laptop to enter its VIN number in order to access the Chrysler database. Dealerships, repair facilities and locksmiths are usually the only ones allowed access to the database, which provides the code for key fob access. Once the thief enters the VIN number, he can re-program the car's computer so it will accept a generic key fob. The car will then start, and the thief is able to drive off.

<comment><USER3> So they had unauthorized access to the Chrysler servers. Possibly via a stolen laptop. Seems too easy.

<comment><USER4> Do they not have equivalent of 2FA? What if these were nukes?

"We are terribly sorry, Mister President. We did not expect them to steal the launch codes from the database. We will provide asylum for what's left of your country."

<comment><USER5> Why would Chrysler have nukes?

<comment><USER6> My first laugh of the day.

<comment><USER7> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Nucleon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Nucleon) \- Not SOO far fetched

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Every once in awhile one of these articles pop up on a news site. People (read: non-technical audience) seem to enjoy reading about a mysterious method of stealing a car, detecting your laptop/ipad in the trunk, tricking an ATM to give free money, hacking your phone, etc, etc.

Reality is that this kind of theft never is as straightforward as the article tells you. In this case it required the thieves to break into the car first, then reprogram the key. The thief can't just walk up to the car and type some magic commands on a laptop and drive of. It requires him to break the lock/door/glass to get in first. That's about the same as how car theft was done in the early years: break in, hotwire the ignition, (bump)start the car. This "new" method even requires more time than hotwiring, so car manufacturers did actually make their cars harder to steal in some sense...

<comment><USER9> > It requires him to break the lock/door/glass to get in first.

They pop the hood, apparently.

[http://www.khou.com/news/crime/high-tech-thieves-crooks- usin...](http://www.khou.com/news/crime/high-tech-thieves-crooks-using- computers-to-steal-cars/251871053)

The rest is all 'digital', no further use of force required.

<comment><USER10> Did you watch the video in that article? It doesn't seem to line up at all with the text of the article, oddly. You see the guy for a moment and then the video skips forward and he's sitting in the Jeep with the alarm going off. The alarm appears to have been going for a good couple of minutes.

Wouldn't popping the hood also require breaking a window or otherwise getting in the car to pull the release?

<comment><USER9> I think they have to have the key already, but still 'blank' That will likely open the door but it would normally raise the alarm, that's why they start under the hood first, to disable that.

After that the procedure would be fairly easy: open the door with the still unlearned key, learn the new key ID to the ECU (takes < 1 minute) using the laptop, after that you can start the car.

One handy tip I got from the police after my own car got stolen (a VW transporter camper) was that you should mask off a chunk of the VIN so thieves can't use the VIN to order keys that will fit the car (but that still need to be programmed in the ECU in order to allow a start).

<comment><USER11> Isn't it illegal to remove the VIN?

<comment><USER9> Here apparently it isn't if you mask it. That's not the same as removing it, but your local police might have a different opinion.

Whether or not it is effective is another matter (and that's hoping there is only _one_ instance of the VIN on your car, there may be other, less obvious ones for instance bar-codes).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> "And _malware_ "? Sounds like the only piece of software involved was the one the thieves were using, and it was doing exactly what it was supposed to.

<comment><USER13> Malware also does exactly what's it supposed to do.

<comment><USER14> Yep. It just has malicious intent, but that's the intent.

<comment><USER15> I decided to look for the definition of malware and found several. I think I like Webster's the most. "software designed to interfere with a computer's normal functioning".

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> If your poor, like myself, and want to slow down a car thief, put in a kill switch.

Run the proper gague wire from the primary on the coil to a switch in the cab. The primary wires are the small wires on the coil. (I can't think of any reason the ECU would throw a trouble code.)

It gets more complicated if you have a separate distributor running to each cylinder, but there's always a point in the electrical system you can splice into, like the starting system.

When completed, just get onto the habit of turning the switch on off, and on.

(I have noticed a lot of old Japanese vehicles being stolen in the Bay Area. Go figure?)

<comment><USER17> There's a cleaner way. You can use a battery terminal disconnect directly on the battery:

[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001N729FS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_p1xP...](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001N729FS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_p1xPxbTFM927E)

Personally, I drive an old diesel truck and it's as simple as disconnecting the fuel cut-off solenoid wire from the solenoid. Old diesels like mine are terrifically simple and really only have two wires: the starter positive lead and the fuel cut-off lead. The cut-off lead opens a solenoid that lets fuel flow to the motor. Remove power and it shuts the flow and stops the engine. The easiest way stop a completely mechanically injected diesel.

<comment><USER18> Please don't do this if your car has oxygen sensors, a catalytic converter or fuel injectors (basically all cars 1980+)

Why? Besides polluting more you're going to reset the car's ECU and it takes a few drive cycles in different conditions to properly tune the engine.

There are so many things that can affect the tuning, engine wear, fuel quality even the barometric pressure. If the car can't learn that (because it's designed to reset on power loss) you will probably be running a rich A/F mixture that can foul your O2 sensors and 3-way cat.

Install an alarm or get a car immobilizer. There is a RFID immobilizer on ebay for less than 10 bucks..

<comment><USER19> Yeah, I'm in favor of a fuel pump disable switch instead. Any passenger car with fuel injection will have an electric or electronic fuel pump, and splicing in a switch is fairly simple. Hide the switch where it's out of sight but easy to access by the owner and Bob's your uncle.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> "used pirated software"

So they did not pay for the crack tools they used? Bastards!

<comment><USER21> Poor thrives didn't k is what they got themselves into. They thought if caught they'd go away for simple auto theft. Now they will probably get charged with hacking (unauthorized use of a computer) under the CFAA and go away for a lot longer.

When I started writing this I was joking but the more you think about it there's a good chance they do get charged under the CFAA.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> Untill the key generation scheme is cracked and it turns out to be md5 of the vin and use the last 10 keys (a la how wpa keys are generated for modems); now all you need is a smartphone, blank key and programmer and all cars of that brand can be easily stolen.

But it could be worse; BMW had a alarm systeem that would not go off if one of the front Windows were smashed; programmer hooked to the cambus allowed you to create a working key and drive off in under a minute...

</comment><comment><USER23> I would love to be able to do this on my own car to reprogram spare keys myself without having to visit the dealership.

</comment><comment><USER24> "Pirated software" is not the right term to use in this case.

</comment><comment><USER25> We presume manufacturers of self-driving cars, or at least their fleet operators, will be liable for their coding mistakes. Why isn't Fiat-Chrysler responsible for the cost of this car?

<comment><USER26> This mentality is so weird to me. The thief is liable. And I'm happy it is this way, otherwise 3rd party locksmiths and garages wouldn't be able to work on your car.

<comment><USER27> Interestingly the law strikes a decent balance here. For example, the FTC can sue a company for 'unfair and deceptive business practices'. Exposing cars to insta-theft because you didn't secure your backend database could fall in that category.

Companies do have a _duty of care_ if they are holding the keys to the castle, be it the keys to your car, or keys to your email or financials; they have to take reasonable precautions to protect the data, commensurate with the quantity and sensitivity of the data, and the cost and availability of technology to protect that data.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> >That was the same story HPD heard over and over from several Jeep owners _in the Houston area_.

Looks like this was their main mistake.

<comment><USER28> Not sure why downvotes. I just pointed out that it was stupid for the thieves to perform their series in one small area, with distinct hand, again and again, drawing police attention. Especially stupid for a hi-tech thieves.

<comment><USER29> I think people thought you meant owning a Jeep in the Houston area was a mistake</comment></comment></comment>


Show HN: Form-validation.js – JavaScript form validation library - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/iendeavor/form-validation.js <comment><USER2> Sorry but that example code looks confusing as hell. If I saw that code without any context, I really wouldn't be able to tell you what it's doing.

Seriously, this is why I hate modern web development. Absolutely everything seems stuffed full of incredibly over-the-top complexity.

Libraries like jQuery get a lot of hate because they're not trendy or supposedly impact performance too much, but unless you're serving thousands of visitors simultaneously you really should care more about code readability and maintainability than any of that.

At least with something like jQuery validation you can actually understand what the code is doing:

      $("#myform").validate({
        rules: {
          name: "required",
          email: {
            required: true,
            email: true
          }
        },
        messages: {
          name: "Please specify your name",
          email: {
            required: "We need your email address to contact you",
            email: "Your email address must be in the format of email@example.com"
          }
        }
      });

</comment><comment><USER3> I've been pretty happy with Formik ([https://formik.org/docs/overview](https://formik.org/docs/overview)) for the past few years. Any comparison to this library?

<comment><USER4> React Hook Form is gaining traction these days.

[https://react-hook-form.com/](https://react-hook-form.com/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> I prefer standards.

For example json-editor:

[https://github.com/json-editor/json-editor](https://github.com/json- editor/json-editor)

It uses json schema validators that have big toolset available.

<comment><USER6> JSON Schema is no official standard.

<comment><USER5> From practical standpoint, it is.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> The link for live example does not check for the rule between 3-5 characters for activity name. The rule.js needs to return true for minLength. Just posted it here instead of creating issue, hope it is fine.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for reply, I've fix it in the rule.js.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> Wow yet another validation library, this one is special because it doesnt care about typescript.

Seriously a big part of the problem is to infer type information as you write validators. Anyone can just invent a dsl for type schema. Npm already has heap of these. If we want the schema approach we' probably go with something json- schema based.

Have a look at io-ts and runtypes to see what what a modern js validator should look like (again has something to do with typescript)

</comment><comment><USER9> It is nice that this has no dependencies, but this strikes me as adding a massive amount of boilerplate than what would be normally necessary due to the flexibility.

</comment><comment><USER10> What problem is this resolving? A short intro on the repo might help. Maybe I'm missing the point but I implement validation using standard browser APIs semi-regularly. It used to be painful, these days it is incredibly straightforward. The only place I would potentially consider a validation library is as a side-loaded polyfill for IE. Please explain?

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for reply,

> What problem is this resolving

A lot of validation framework doesn't pass `path` (key is not enough in complex situations) to rules to achieve cross-field validation.

> ... these days it is incredibly straightforward.

I've also read HTML5 standard validation APIs, the APIs is not easy to deal with (at least for me). for example, again, do cross-field validation.

> ... polyfill for IE.

Sorry about this, form-validation.js is based on modern javascript feature: Proxy (In order to simulate the data-structure of the form you passed in), There is no possible to provide polyfill for Promise

Hope this helps you well, I'll add some intro to READMD.md when I am free.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> If you're looking for something with less boilerplate but still extensive extensibility, check out [https://strickland.io](https://strickland.io). It also has no dependencies and is pure JavaScript.

</comment><comment><USER12> If you're looking for something a bit more minimal, check out Pristine: [http://pristine.js.org/](http://pristine.js.org/)</comment>


The 10 Most Sought-After IT Skills  - <AUTHOR> http://www.itmanagement.com/features/10-in-demand-it-skills-030508/ <comment><USER2> Where's my down button?

This article would be better titled 'Top 10 skills that troglodytic dying coroporations think they want'.

Run as fast as you can in the opposite direction!

<comment><USER3> I am so glad I didn't click up. Is that site funded by Microsoft?

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Someone should take the items on the list and put them on a poster entitled "Why you should avoid IT at all costs" and put them up in university computer science departments.

It might also make a great ad for YC.

</comment><comment><USER5> HEH!</comment>