Introducing NodeTube, an open-source YouTube alternative powered by NodeJS - <AUTHOR> https://nodetube.live <comment><USER2> Open source announcement, 18 days ago, over 150 points, over 70 comments:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21926666](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21926666)

</comment><comment><USER3> Being served by Node.js isn't really a selling point to most people, but I applaud the effort none the less.

<comment><USER4> It's actually the opposite of a selling point. Node does well against other languages with I/O bound jobs, but throw something CPU-intensive at it and it's not even close to C, C++, Java, or Go.

<comment><AUTHOR> The app is decoupled such that the frontend can run separately from the intensive processes. I have the app running on a free Heroku dyno right now and it's running great even serving up to 100 concurrent users.

<comment><USER4> How are you handling the intensive processes and why is it worth having JS in the mix? Why not use one language?

Unrelated: the planned federation is _muuuuuch_ more interesting than the stack you're using.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yup federation is planned. And JavaScript is the language of the web, JavaScript + Node together is something I really enjoy working with. And intensive things like video conversions is run closer to the metal than the Node app

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> it's only been 18 days since your show HN post. maybe you can find other places to promote this?

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21926666](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21926666)

<comment><AUTHOR> Sorry, I've just been working a lot on the frontend lately and feel that the actual live instance now is about a 1.0 which is my motivation for the post. Hopefully that's OK I know there's a LOT of people who have still never heard about this but find it interesting.

<comment><USER5> If you want to keep re-submitting maybe consider starting a dev blog where you can explain what's new, instead of just reposting the same thing over and over again with no context.

<comment><AUTHOR> I did that based on a suggestion before, and wrote up a pretty long blog entry about my motivation for the project and it got like zero pickup on HN. People really like to just see the real thing, here is the post for reference: [https://medium.com/@NodeTube_org/my-plan-to-ensure-the- free-...](https://medium.com/@NodeTube_org/my-plan-to-ensure-the-free-flow-of- information-and-advancement-of-human-consciousness-in-the-21st-5787e9288f66)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> > Your video is currently pending moderator approval. If it's still pending > after several minutes please contact a mod at Discord

Hm, that could get terrible pretty quickly.

<comment><AUTHOR> It's a stopgap measure right now since I only have a couple other mods and can't guarantee someone can be around to monitor uploads. It can be turned off via a flag in the settings file.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Why name it after the language?

<comment><AUTHOR> It's actually a double entendre, eventually it will be federated via ActivityPub and able to index others instances' content, and that's the other and true meaning of the 'Node' component of the name.

<comment><USER8> Do you plan on making it compatible with Peertube?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> How is this better than PeerTube?

</comment><comment><USER10> What made you choose NodeJS to power a media streaming platform?

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm a JavaScript guy and do most of my servers in Node, and was able to use a great repo called 'hackathon-starter' from Github for some basic functionality out of the gate, and I like their setup of a Node app.</comment></comment>


The Grandfather of Alt-Science - <AUTHOR> https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-grandfather-of-alt-science/ <comment><USER2> I've crossed paths with the man, and attended a "Doctors for Disaster Preparedness" conference that he ran. He's undeniably brilliant, but that whole scene is filled with people whose primary emotional motivation is a sense of grievance that the scientific community does not share their personal theories.

Every talk at that conference was framed as a brilliant insight that was being suppressed by the scientific community. Highlights, by my recollection, include that climate change is false, radiation is good for you, and most alarmingly in my opinion that HIV does not cause AIDS.

Not surprised at all that Dr. Robinson has since got tied up in vaccine denial, and been extensively funded by the Mercers et al. Nor that he has since become a perennially losing congressional candidate in Oregon.

There's a great quote at the end of this article, in which he says that science is fundamentally a populist endeavor, and that one man can be right and all others wrong. I'd point out that science is also fundamentally a human endeavor, and that those who practice it cannot escape their own motivations or cognitive traps.

Perhaps Dr. Robinson and his crowd really are onto something the scientific consensus is blind to. But they're also creationists, climate deniers, and anti-vaxers. We know what cognitive biases drive people to those opinions, and we judge their research output accordingly.

<comment><USER3> I've known a couple of people who were anti-Einstein, anti-relativity cranks. They were also (respectively) a skilled research chemist and a skilled electrical engineer. Both had doctorates from mainstream institutions. They were fine to consult on topics related to their expertise, as long as it didn't touch on their mission against Einstein. Trained scientists can compartmentalize information and fool themselves too. (As the article notes, of course; Robinson once worked at UCSD alongside Linus Pauling. Pauling had some bad ideas too.)

As a general heuristic, "discount all of a person's scientific ideas once you've seen them championing one howler" is fine. But if you think that your bullshit meter is calibrated well enough to tease signal from noise, there _are_ autodidacts and non-institutional researchers who have good ideas or insights alongside their offputting HIV/AIDS denialism, Young Earth Creationism, Electric Universe-ism, or what-have-you.

<comment><USER2> Agreed. And Art's work on biomarker detection is conceptually valid, though subject to practical challenges similar to those vexing Theranos.

But Art's past association with Pauling, combined with his charisma and rugged good looks are systematically used to provide top cover for a grievance- oriented movement of cranks.

It's exactly the veneer of respectability that Bob Mercer needs to put these guys in political power. The urinalysis is a red herring.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> This article portrays "alt-science" as a right-wing phenomenon, but there are certainly left-wing flavors as well, including:

\- anti-nuclear sentiment (1, 2)

\- anti-wind sentiment (bad for birds) (1)

\- blanket anti-GMO (2), overly focused on organic products

\- homeopathy (2)

\- overconfidence in some forms of birth control: condoms as actually used are only 85% effective (3) birth control per year per couple

\- poor understanding, or at least wording, around prenatal development. Developed human fetuses are both human and alive. Scientifically, the abortion question isn't whether a human life is ended, it's clear that one is. The question is a philosophical (not scientific) -- whether the termination of a life is justified and who gets to determine that.

I expect that some of these sentiments _could_ be very true. Just like storing up thousands of samples of urine could provide scientific advancement. But the discussion on each issue is _not_ scientific. In some cases, scientific inquiry itself can be seen as dangerous and harmful.

(1) [https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-liberals- war-...](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-liberals-war-on- science/)

(2) [https://newrepublic.com/article/139700/democrats-party- scien...](https://newrepublic.com/article/139700/democrats-party-science-not- really)

(3) [https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth- control/condom...](https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth- control/condom/how-effective-are-condoms)

<comment><USER5> I agree it's good to point that out and add your examples to the discussion. But the article struck me as fair:

-It's first and foremost a profile piece of a man who is definitively right-wing and has major ties to right-wing donors and interests.

-It had a wary narrative on Pauling as well, who is clearly indicated as left-wing.

-It offers warnings about alt-science in general in the closing paragraphs.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Nicely written piece. Lovely to read something that has a nicely balanced approach without overtones of distain or bias.

People are complicated - clearly being a climate change denier seems like a pretty insane thing for an otherwise seemingly intelligent scientist to believe, but as the article mentions towards the end: Who knows, maybe the urine thing will be useful. There's no reason to dismiss it out of hand. I think using more nuclear power would be a good idea.

So much of today's rhetoric seems to want to paint people in black and white, but everyone's a mix. Even Trump has the occasional flash of not-complete- idiocy (although, to be fair, I'm having a hard time thinking of one).

<comment><USER7> I appreciated the humanity of it. In particularly, Robinson reflecting on his past decisions:

> "I don't know where she [Robinson's wife] got that disease, but my guess is > that if we'd stayed in La Jolla, she'd still be alive. It would have been a > different life. So I look at all this, and I know I'm lucky — I've got six > wonderful young people working here, and they're all brighter than me so I'm > having fun. But she's dead and the [urine] profiling was delayed for many, > many years. So if I could do it over again …" He paused.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> I've always been attracted to the idea of science and medicine becoming more "open source", in the sense that all knowledge could be free flowing and lowering the entry to understanding and contributing to it. It could be a great way for the "alt-science" and official academia to benefit each other.

However, I am pretty skeptical on Robertson's approach to this, on several parts, but the most conspicuous is how his "alt-science" seems to be aligning a lot with modern GOP philosophies.

For example, while he explains plainly, "that human activity has not harmfully warmed the Earth", the article he participates in comes to a bit different conclusion, which is "Meaningful integrated assessments of the environmental impacts of anthropogenic CO 2are not yet possible because model estimates of global and regional climate changes on interannual, decadal and centennial time scales remain highly uncertain", which seems a bit dishonest to say the least.

Great article and fascinating read. Academia surely needs to be challenged, but I am afraid I would take more of Pauling's approach myself.

</comment><comment><USER9> "Science is entirely a populist thing," Robinson says again. "It's a way of using the individual human mind. That means one man can be right, and everybody else can be wrong."

What an interesting quote. I've never considered science in this light but... it's true!

<comment><USER10> I'm surprised by this reaction. To me, the quote sounds like gobbledygook. Populism and the power of the individual mind are almost at cross-purposes.

<comment><USER11> People have very limited amount of time to learn new things; and the scope of human knowledge is vast beyond any individual's ability to test even a meaningful subset of it empirically.

Because of this, science is disseminated in the same way as religion, political action, superstition and gossip - an authority figure says something, and we take it as true. No differences. Same mechanism for all knowledge, correct or spurious.

Society has special mechanisms for science to be tested against reality every so often (especially through the PHD system of selecting authority figures). Knowledge from a 'scientific' authority is more likely to be based on objective fact than anything else. However, there is still massive scope for error, especially in what the public believes if something is mis-identified as a scientific fact.

I'm thinking things like dietary science. The public perception on what the science says seems to be somewhat malleable.

<comment><USER12> We have to blindly accept scientific findings sometimes because we don't have the capacity to know everything, but in general "blind acceptance" is a loose connection that we acknowledge could and probably change. The fact that people don't understand that or hold too firm of a grasp on any particular finding is a failure of scientific education.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I'm an Oregonian. Art Robinson is well-known locally as either a wingnut or a genius scientist, depending mostly on whether you've actually scrutinized his words. His research might well be scientifically meaningful, but a lot of things he's advocated for are pseudoscience, and he doesn't come across well in discussions when he's cross-examined on his prior publications.

As far as politics goes, he did not pick a great district to try to run for. The incumbent, Peter DeFazio (D), is beloved in the area for his populist attitude and progressive voting record; the Eugene/Springfield/Corvallis/Albany metro population consists largely of aging hippies and college students, and he's been consistently elected since the 1980s.

</comment><comment><USER14> > ensorcelled

verb literary past tense: ensorcelled; past participle: ensorcelled

enchant; fascinate.

Worth the price of admission for that alone

</comment><comment><USER15> Uggggghhhh, it's all fun and games to read about these wackos until you have to experience them in real life. Until you witness the deaths their bullheaded stupidity cause first hand it's humane to be apologetic to their plight. We're all ignorant, only the stupid defend their ignorance. This is what makes them dangerous. It's hard to admit you're wrong when your entire sense of self is wrapped up in your world view.

Here's a Feynman chasser/refresher on what science is. [https://youtube.com/watch?v=OL6-x0modwY](https://youtube.com/watch?v=OL6-x0modwY)

</comment><comment><USER16> From the _first paragraph_ :

 _... padded across the carpet of his homemade lab in a pair of white athletic socks._

I'm already not taking him seriously as a scientist. Who puts carpet in a lab? Any kind of lab, much less one that you're anything at all related to biology or chemistry.

<comment><USER17> The picture of his machine shows it on tile.

Maybe they were referring to his office adjacent to the lab?

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> I kinda expected this article to be about mr.Crowley</comment>


Overwatch Gameplay Architecture and Netcode – A Great Explanation of ECS - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3aieHjyNvw <comment><USER2> Though everything works in practice, it seems like this ECS organization in C++ is encumbered with all of these issues, some as simple as issues with new entities occlusion with currently looping iterators. I admire what they did, but it just seems so unpure and not pristine.

Is it just the nature of the area of development..gaming? Or is it just because C++ is pretty much defacto for perf, and no large company is going to rock the boat?</comment>


Github is Down - <AUTHOR> https://status.github.com/

<comment><USER2> Seriously? They announced it weeks in advance.

</comment><comment><USER3> I was debugging a piece of code and then suddenly started receiving these "gzip: stdin: not in gzip format"... looks like tarball downloads are also offline when github.com is under maintenance. I should keep a cache with all the buildpacks.

</comment><comment><USER4> Planned maintenance. Nothing to see here, move along.</comment>


Ask HN: Review this "single input login" implementation - <AUTHOR>

Here's how I saw it: http://recurseapp.com/single-login Based off: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1824878
After implementing it, I have to say – the thing has a lot of holes, it doesn't work quite as well as I'd like, and most of all, it's incredibly unintuitive.
I didn't fancy up there error state at all because I don't tell my users if it was their email or password which was wrong, simply that the combination was incorrect.
It might work in the header of a website if you don't want to direct your users away from the current page and you don't have the vertical space to show a stacked login form. But I'm going to keep sending my users to http://recurseapp.com/login <comment><AUTHOR> <http://recurseapp.com/single-login>

</comment><comment><USER2> Err... were exactly can I see it working?</comment>


Ask HN: How do you brew your coffee? - <AUTHOR> With so many different methods and tools, what is your method and tool to make a good coffee?
Pour over is my daily method of simple and good coffee.<p>Different methods and tools are also shown here on PH: https://www.producthunt.com/ask/946-how-do-you-brew-your-coffee <comment><USER2> I find roasting my own beans makes the world of difference. I buy my green coffee in 20lb patches from [https://www.sweetmarias.com/category/green- coffee](https://www.sweetmarias.com/category/green-coffee) and use a small automated roaster. Roasted beans have a shelf life and a lot of times I was getting sold old coffee that didn't taste as well as other times.

After roasting I have 3 basic methods for making coffee first being the basic Bunn drip pot. I also own a french press for when I don't need a pot to help get me through the day. Finally I have one of those stove top espresso devices for when I need to make espresso.

<comment><USER3> What roaster do you use?

<comment><USER2> A tiny one nesco brand I got it on sell for $60 at the time. Currently working on turning a convection oven that has a rotisserie attachment on it into a bean roast using a arduino

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I own a big variety of methods because I think it's fun, but get the most use out of our Toddy [1].

You can make 15-20 cups of cold brew at once (which has a decent shelf life) and if you use the optional filter bags, cleanup is super easy.

With nice beans you can also make some really flavorful coffee, but it's extremely tolerant of cheap/old beans in a pinch.

For hot coffee the aeropress has the best convenience to consistent quality ratio, but v60 pourover cone gives you the most control over all the variables, for better or for worse.

If you're new to coffee, don't sweat the method and focus on getting decent beans that are less than a week old. A good filter for roaster quality is if they have a 'roasted on' date, vs no date or a 'best by' date.

[1] - [https://toddycafe.com/](https://toddycafe.com/)

</comment><comment><USER5> I like the cheap freeze-dried stuff. Boil the water, put the coffee in the cup, put the water in the cup, done.

<comment><USER6> OMG NOT TEMPERATURE CONTROLLED? OH MA GOD!

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Carefully crack a can of Monster open ensuring that none of the factory air escapes in a temperature controlled environment, usually 1:1 ratio. Drink it in about 5 minutes.

</comment><comment><USER7> Aeropress is the best coffee I can make at home, but only a single cup.

For some reason my pour over is never good as "the one grandma used to make".

<comment><USER8> Seconded on the Aeropress. It beats the French press, which it most closely resembles, in pretty much every metric: you can grind the coffee more finely which gives you better extraction, and you can use less of it to get coffee of the same strength. It's also faster and easier to clean up. And to my palate, it just tastes better.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> I'm of the opinion that the easiest and most important step one can take to make one's coffee taste better is to grind the beans before brewing. Better quality coffee obviously improves the flavor for sure, but preground gourmet coffee is about as competitive as freshly ground Eight O'Clock Joe.

I usually use drip coffee because I'm lazy, but prefer French press.

<comment><USER10> I love french press but the problem is that the glass is so fragile that I gave up french press after the third time I broke it.

<comment><USER11> You can get a stainless steel french press. Typically they are vacuum insulated as well, which is nice.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Coffee snob here.

At the office I keep my own stash of good beans. I use a manual burr grinder and a cheapo pour-over system with the hot water that comes out of the big BUNN coffee maker. I will say that I think an Aeropress makes some of the best coffee I've ever had, but it's just too much of a pain to do in the office.

Ever once in awhile I'll have the office BUNN coffee if I'm in it for quick caffeine rather than coffee experience. There is absolutely a time and place for bad coffee. For instance, I would be very sad if Waffle House started serving good coffee.

At home it depends. Sometimes a moka pot, sometimes a pour-over, sometimes a french press. Depends on the roast and what I'm in the mood for.

</comment><comment><USER13> Clean French press, fresh / burr ground beans (12:1, so usually ~60g ground), temperature controlled H20 (96C), 4:30 minute brew.

</comment><comment><USER14> Bunn coffee maker. Makes a unbeatable pot in 3 minutes flat.

Same way they make drip dinner coffee - water is heated to just the right temperature, unlike a Mr. Coffee which is too hot and sours the coffee because it uses the steam as a pump.

<comment><USER15> Have been thinking about getting a Bunn to replace my aged Mr. Coffee. Have tried many other ways of making coffee and really just prefer the convenience of drip.

In the summer I make a gallon of cold brew at a time in a big jug on the counter.

<comment><USER14> My parents had a Bunn while I was growing up, I got a Mr, Coffee immediately after moving out. Had it for years. It just wasn't the same. Couple years back I made the jump to a Bunn and have not regretted it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> I use an AeroPress and I buy whole beans from a nearby/local roaster or when I'm feeling cheap I'll get a big bag of beans from CostCo. I find that the equipment impacts the coffee a whole lot less than having a good bean that was recently roasted and has been freshly ground. I also use a burr grinder, it may be psychosomatic but I prefer the taste of burr ground coffee over blade ground coffee.

The problem here, of course, is that "good" coffee beans can be hard to find in a given area and are generally speaking expensive (without going in too far in to the ethics of coffee, I am personally willing to pay a little bit more to buy beans that are ethically and sustainably sourced -- which takes a little research and effort on your part when interacting with local roasters). You could buy relatively cheap green beans (check out Sweet Marias) and roast them yourself but the equipment can be expensive and it adds a non-trivial amount of time and effort.

Anyway, I think that the AeroPress makes the best cup of coffee that I have ever had at home. I also have a pour-over that I use sometimes, and a french press that I use sometimes, but both of those options are a lot more effort. The AeroPress takes all of a minute from to get from "I want a cup of coffee" to "Mmm, this coffee tastes good" and that includes clean up. Also, the paper filters are re-useable and I tend to re-use each one of mine dozens of times before getting a new one out.

<comment><USER17> I use almost the same method. I make my coffee into one of those tall double- walled insulated mugs.

I put the coffee into the AeroPress, add hot water to the top and stir. By the time I'm done stiring, 8 seconds, the water has dripped out an inch or so, which I fill back up and put in the plunger. I push it down a bit to create some pressure, then let it sit for 30 seconds. Push it down the rest of the way and it's ready!

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> It's pretty hard to beat a French press. A $20 version will last forever and make coffee fit for a king.

<comment><USER19> I'm with you on this one. My french press outperforms pour-over, Aeropress, Moka pots, and a bunch of other methods when it comes to properly extracting coffee.

I'm particularly sensitive to the bitter flavors in coffee, however, so I really don't like so many coffee making methods which produce bitter coffee.

<comment><USER20> I'd love to hear the rationale behind what makes french press superior for properly extracted coffee.

I've always thought of each method as driven by preference and context, but if there's an argument to be made for "technical" best, I'd love to hear it.

<comment><USER19> I don't know all the technical details, and I'm sure it boils down to "it's hard to get wrong" with a french press, but one scoop of beans ground down, half the press' volume in just-off-boil-water, and 5 minutes makes a perfect coffee. Perhaps it's in part due to stealing this "recipie" from Alton Brown, but it really does just work for me.

The Aeropress does a decent job, but the volume of coffee created is so small and very highly concentrated. As a result, the outcome is really easy to get wrong. The paper filters also tends to capture a lot of the essential oils, making for a different tasting coffee when compared to a metal filter.

As for pour-over, it feels like the extraction of the grounds is very un-even, with those near the bottom of the filter being over-extracted, while those nearer to the top are under-extracted. Since over-extraction tends to create more bitter compounds, pour-over is never that good to my tastes.

As for Moka pots - it's hard to catch them right when they're done, and so it's easy to get burnt coffee (small all-metal pots with small amounts of water and coffee). The extraction seems good, but as with the Aeropress it's a very small amount, so it's so easy to get wrong.

<comment><USER20> Thanks for the answer. Strong point on the directness of the french press: fewer points of failure, and more uniform process.

French press was the first technique I used, long before I gave my coffee technique proper attention, so you've inspired me to dust mine off and give it the same level of attention I give to a pour-over.

Time for a side-by-side test this weekend …

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> I've tried several methods and have settled on grinding high quality beans and throwing them into a regular Mr. Coffee drip machine. The bean quality+grinding immediately before brewing make 90% of the difference taste- wise. After that, the easiest method that turns it into coffee is best.

French press is too gritty unless you add an additional filter or grind the beans just right, and even then it's still a little gritty.

Pour over is far too much work to do every day. I set the pot, do my morning routine, and come back when it's done.

I would do cold brew occasionally, but I enjoy hot coffee especially during the winter, and the heat keeps me from wanting to drink it too quickly. I like to spend about 10am-3pm on 16oz of coffee.

Buying good coffee from a shop daily is 3-10x more expensive and just doesn't make sense to me unless $1000 a year on coffee is a drop in the bucket for you.

I've had better coffee than what I make myself at $4+ upscale coffee shops, but I think my method gets the price/time/taste balance just right for a 2-cup-a-day drinker like me.

</comment><comment><USER22> I've used a chemex + quality grinder for a long time and haven't found anything better so not much to add there.

I've started experimenting with roasting at home, though, and am surprised at how easy it is. Time since roast seems to be one of the most important variables for taste and beans are by far the largest expense. You can buy a 3lb bag of unroasted green coffee on Amazon for $20:

[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B014THN4OI/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_L1Rl...](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B014THN4OI/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_L1RlAbPSVYMG4)

It takes about 13 minutes to roast a hopper's worth of beans. I use a normal castiron skillet over medium heat. Just keep the beans moving the whole time.

</comment><comment><USER23> Cold brew is easy to make, and taste is really smooth and sweet, and preserves the flavor without the bitterness. However, it takes a long time for the process to finish, so I start it before I go to bed, and have the coffee ready to drink in the morning. I use Cold Bruer, as I prefer the drip method, not infusion. I prefer single origin over blend, especially for cold brew. If you're curious about its taste, try Blue Bottle's cold brew. I don't recommend Starbucks' version, as it is not good.

EDIT: Cold brew is not iced coffee! Iced coffee is a common hot brewed coffee that is consumed cold, often by pouring hot coffee over ice, and popular in summer.

</comment><comment><USER24> I have a stainless steel, insulated French press. Stainless steel because I broke ~3 of the glass ones while dumping out old coffee grounds. Insulated because I love my coffee to be hot.

Here's the process for how I actually brew a Fresh press:

0\. Heat up water in electric water pot.

1\. Dump a couple of scoops of coffee (I eyeball it, no formula) into the FP.

2\. Slowly pour hot water onto coffee in FP in a somewhat circular fashion. "Somewhat" because I make adjustments to make sure all the coffee is getting wet and mixed in.

3\. I take a long spoon and stir/whip the coffee, so that there is a rich foam at the top of the FP.

4\. Put the top on the FP.

5\. Wait 2-20 minutes, depending on the day, then slowly press the strainer down.

The coffee is then ready to drink.

<comment><USER25> I broke a glass one and it dumped near-boiling water on my pants and resulted in a large 2nd degree burn. Glass boiling water receptacles may be one of those things we someday look back on with horror, like those Victorian mills with overhead belt drives. Stainless is the way to go.

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> When I'm on the streets, I always have espressos. Here in the UK, they have very good ones. When I was in Brazil I always had espressos and pour over. French press and Aeropress are not popular down there.

</comment><comment><USER26> started roasting our own coffee on the stove. best decision ever. takes about 10-15min 2x a week (1/2lb per roast). still experimenting with the 7lb sampler at happymug.

moccasmaster + baratza grinder

<comment><USER27> What do you put the coffee in when you roast it on the stove? And how strong is the smell when it's roasting?

I want to roast at home but I'm afraid neighbors may complain if the odor is too much.

<comment><USER26> I use a wok, an oven thermometer to get it to the initial heat (~200F), and a wooden spoon to stir. I try and finish my roast by 9-12min.

You get a little bit of smoke but nothing like what I read online. That said, I don't generally roast to expresso dark but have roasted to 30-60sec past 2nd crack with no problems (happymug gives tips on how much to roast in their green bean profile).

We live in an apt and no one has ever complained. Also, it's not foul smelling at all. Generally just a little burnt coffee smell. The beans and grind, however, smell superb!!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> I usually brew on an Aeropress - ~20g coffee @ medium grind (~18 on the Baratza Encore), inverted, no stir (maybe a wiggle), about a minute of contact time. I bought an Able Disk mesh filter but lost it, I don't really miss it.

In terms of beans, I usually go for Blue Bottle (Three Africas is always a solid option, also their holiday Oakland Lights blend is really good right now). That said, Trader Joe's Lys Kaffe blend is like $6, it's like 80% as good as specialty coffee for half the price!

</comment><comment><USER29> Depends on where I am and what I feel like.

I have an Aeropress at my desk at work. I keep some freshly ground coffee there so I can make nice coffee instead of the random brew in the lunchroom.

I have a pour over and a drip machine at home. The drip machine is programmed to make me a pot of coffee that is ready when I get out of bed, it's not the best coffee I've ever had but it gets my day going.

The pour over is for when I want a single cup or if I feel like making a nicer coffee. Usually when I buy some nicer beans as a treat.

</comment><comment><USER30> At home I usually use a cheap electric grinder (I don't even know the name right now, I got it from the parents' place since they weren't using it) along with a gooseneck electric kettle for pour over[1]. Every now and then I use a moka pot. On the go I usually get macchiatos. I see others mentioning French press; I tried that for a while but I always ended up either too watery or too oily.

[1] 23 grams of coffee beans ground to sea salt consistency, 300 grams of water.

</comment><comment><USER31> I've tried and loved a lot of different coffee methods over the years, but my daily drink is a knock off keurig with Newmen's Own coffee.

But to me, the most important ingredient in how well the coffee tastes is the water. Tap water with lots of tastes will make the best beans taste like junk. Filtered water can make mediocre beans taste much better. Plus if you use a machine, it means you dont have to descale :)

</comment><comment><USER32> Stove-top siphon pot (Yama 5 cup). I've found it to be the best method after trying all (according to my personal tastes and style). Metal filter only.

French Press or Clever comes in second place. Also metal filter only.

For cold brew: two glass 3L jugs, a funnel and metal filter.

Other things:

Baratza Virtuoso Grinder, Lavatools digital thermometer, timer (any will do), gram scale (any will do).

Coffee: Fresh beans from Portorico importing (NYC). Light-roast only.

</comment><comment><USER33> I drink the coffee purely for the caffeine, and don't have high standards. I just buy ground coffee, typically from a local shop, but sometimes starbucks. Then use a French press, purely because I can make a small amount of coffee with it, and not waste a whole pot. You do have to be careful about pre-ground sometimes its too small and can make it through the press, not ideal.

</comment><comment><USER34> Single-cup Vietnamese coffee filter ([http://www.trung-nguyen- online.com/about-vietnamese-coffee-f...](http://www.trung-nguyen- online.com/about-vietnamese-coffee-filter.php))

Mostly out of convenience (easiest clean-up, second only to turkish coffee where you use no filter at all), and out of nostalgia (lived 1 year in Viet Nam)

</comment><comment><USER35> I use my Keurig with its reusable coffee filter. Occasionally I'll buy a bag of beans to grind, but I usually stick to Folgers.

</comment><comment> yoz-y For me convenience beats the rest so it is whatever comes out of a Nespresso machine, I particularly like the Roma blend.

</comment><comment><USER36> Aeropress (95C water), ground with a hario conical burr hand grinder.

I like WholeFoods' Mocha Java. It's the best value coffee.

</comment><comment><USER37> I grind my beans on demand and usually brew with an aeropress if I'm making one, or the appropriate sized moka pot for making several. (I also have a couple of coffee syphons, which are fun to watch, but too fiddly and too much cleanup for everyday use.)

Aeropress makes a good cup and is super easy for cleanup.

<comment><USER38> Exactly what I do. Aeropress for myself, moka pot if I'm doing >1\. Beans ground as needed in a completely non-fancy spice grinder.

I love the taste of Aeropress, but don't expect it to be like espresso. The workflow for a single cup is great, important when I've had <1 coffee so far in the day.

I've toyed with buying an espresso machine but given I have 1 cup a day at home, it seems extravagant.

<comment><USER37> I would suggest investing in a burr grinder. You really want the granules of ground coffee to be reasonably uniform in size.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER39> I do the following: 1) Organic beans 2) Burr grinder 3) Bonavita Coffee Maker (This will brew at a specific temp for the beans and distributes the water evenly over the grounds.) 4) Post: add coconut oil for energy boost

</comment><comment><USER40> Chemex or French press on weekday mornings. On weekends, I like to indulge: sometimes I make a moka pot cubano, at others I'll make the Indian style super strong 'kaapi' in the steel coffee filter.

<comment><USER40> Oh and if you are here in Seattle, Espresso Vivace 'dolce' fresh beans are the ones to beat.

</comment></comment><comment><USER41> When I used to drink regular coffee seriously, I degraded from making it with a Melita drip cup using Cafe Grumpy's beans or something like that to a Keurig machine.

</comment><comment><USER42> I have a 9-cup Moka pot and a burr grinder.

One day when I am rich and not-famous, i will have an espresso machine of the form that gets patched directly into the house water line.

</comment><comment><USER43> i got Breville The Barista Express BES870XL machine that grind beans and makes super atomic strong coffee . Best coffee i ever had.

<comment><USER44> I have one of these too and it's amazing if you can swing it!

</comment></comment><comment><USER45> My go-to is a pour over.

I actually prefer the richer result of a French press, but I'm lazy and don't want to clean it out afterwards.

</comment><comment><USER46> Target Brand Coffee maker with the cheapest/ounce pre-ground coffee, bottom shelf. The thing's heater coils blow out every 90 days or so, but Target has a year warranty on them, so I keep getting replacements for 'free'.

Everyone is all fancy with their coffee, but it tastes just fine to me.

EDIT: Well now, reading through the comments is like stepping into a niche aquarium manufacturing forum: I've no idea what anyone is talking about, but they are all very certain of it.

</comment><comment><USER47> Chemex, Aeropress, or Cafe Bustelo + Moka Pot. Really depends on how lazy I feel and how many beans I have left.

</comment><comment><USER48> I stand by my percolator. I love it but you can easily 'burn' the coffee.

</comment><comment><USER49> Chemex. Great flavor.

</comment><comment><USER50> Burr hand grinder, then brew using French press.

</comment><comment><USER51> electric grinder and mokapot in the morning.

Sometimes a cafetiere

</comment><comment><USER52> inb4 thisforumisturningintoreddit

</comment><comment><USER53> Everything except coffee capsules/pods/bars. These pre-apportioned single-use container of ground coffee beans produce way too much waste, are 10 times more expensive and are no better than instant coffee.

Your favorite traditional coffee culture that was popular before the hype around coffee capsules/pods/bars are fast, as convinent (fully automatic machines) and taste great.</comment>


Disprove the claims in our linearly scalable SQL paper, get a 1 000 € bounty - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@andrasgerlits/optimistic-acid-transactions-4f193844bb5f <comment><AUTHOR> We recently published our paper on the first properly ACID-capable, scalable SQL solution we know of. We have worked on it for years, but we are happy with it now.

We'll give you a 1 000 € if you can disprove our paper's claims. That is, you can show that a theoretical element supporting our claim of being a scalable database with SQL-compatible consistency guarantees or the proposed combination of these elements have a fundamental flaw in it.

<comment><USER2> We already have at least the following solutions: Spanner, CockroachDB, TiDB, FoundationDB.

Is there a link to the paper though?

<comment><AUTHOR> The title is a link. As far as I know, all the databases you've listed are synchronous, lock based solutions, so a single schema can't be grown to any size. Ours can.

<comment><USER2> No, a single schema can be grown to any size in all of them.

<comment><AUTHOR> Well yes, technically. Correct me, but wouldn't locks be bottlenecks when scaling databases? Our solution promises the option of a single global database schema, since increasing the number of concurrent transactions wouldn't hurt performance.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: Are you working on a secret, unannounced VR project? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> Yes.

</comment><comment><USER3> No</comment>


SELinux root exploit - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/stealth/troubleshooter

<comment><AUTHOR> There are at least two bugs involved here. One is the fact that you can breach into the setroubleshootd_t domain because of the shell parsing error. The second is a policy one: the setroubleshootd_t allows you to create a file with any attribute (here the suid bit), making it possible to elevate privileges.

The point Sebastian (stealth) is making is fairly balanced: SELinux is very useful, but it's not the catch-all solution to containing root exploits; it even has bugs in its implementations and policies, like all software.

</comment><comment> c-rack Summary: SELinux executes untrusted input without sanitization

"The setroubleshootd daemon which runs as root, activated by its DBUS activation file when sedispatch was forwarding its AVC denial message, straight passes the pathname to a shell without further sanitization."</comment>


IMVU became a mobile metaverse when no one was looking - <AUTHOR> https://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2020/07/imvu-mobile-metaverse.html <comment><USER2> Do they still use Haskell?</comment>


More Fake jQuery sites - <AUTHOR> http://labs.sucuri.net/?note=2012-11-22

<comment><USER2> I wonder how the links to these fake sites are injected into the infected sites in the first place. Is it through some other vulnerability and the fake sites are mainly needed to make the hack less obvious for a human auditing the code?

Or do they hope that somebody finds the fake jQuery site on Google or through a typo in the URL and then includes their fake JavaScript file instead? That seems unlikely to me.

</comment><comment><USER3> >We keep seeing fake jQuery sites popping up and being used to distribute malware.

Anyone has more info? What kind of malware? I'm assuming client side? Any 0-days? Unsurprisingly, both websites are blocked at where I am.

<comment><USER4> I think the particularly interesting thing about this isn't the malware in question, but the vector they're using to distribute it. Almost every HTML page written in the last 5 years has jquery included somewhere, and so they're clearly trying to provide a redirection (or script-injection) vector which would pass a glance over the site code. If you run a website and have a breach it's worth being aware of during the code inspection you'd have to make.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Previously, jquery.it: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2734138>

</comment><comment><USER6> a funny one: <http://jqueery.com> \- click around :D

<comment><USER7> I thank you very very much for that. Whenever I feel down I know where to get a laugh. The song just makes it better.

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> "window.top.location.href = "httx://www.jqueryc.com"

Is the "httx" a mistake by the malware-authors or Sucuri Malware Labs? I find the second option more likely.

<comment><USER9> I suspect they've done it deliberately, to avoid having a malware link on their site. With the link as given, a reader would have to consciously change the 'x' for a 'p' to visit it, making it unlikely that anyone would do it accidentally.

<comment><USER8> That makes sense, and would also explain why they chose to put it in a <textarea>, I suppose. Still, it feels as if the apparent intended audience would be aware of the risks without them having to go through the trouble.

<comment><USER10> Seems odd to quibble with being a thoughtful netizen.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> As used in this article, what does TDS mean?

<comment><USER7> The best acronym I was able to find (fits with the multiple redirects) is: Traffic Distribution System.</comment></comment>


Show HN: GoodPods – Goodreads for Podcasts - <AUTHOR> https://www.goodpods.app/ <comment><AUTHOR> I'm back after posting TinyPress here 4ish years ago. Thanks for the feedback on that project, really was amazing.

## What to check out on Goodpods:

\- Check out the awesome search page!

\- Check out the library feature and ability to see description for podcasts quickly

\- Check out profile page

## A few notes:

\- MOBILE NOT SUPPORTED. THIS ALPHA INCLUDES DESKTOP VERSION OF WEB APP. SORRY :(

\- It's on the $7/month heroku hosting for now. And images aren't cached locally - so give the pages a few seconds to load please.

\- The search page specifically needs a few seconds to load.

\- This is early early alpha (v0.5), releases are rolling out daily to update UI & functionality.

\- There will be more GoodReads functionality coming. I have a full social posting and networking feature set that is 100% done and tested, just not quite where I'd like it somehow, so I turned that off in the app for now. At this point the app is all about discovering podcasts and maintaining your library.

\- Also please note most things on the site are temp - not final - <USER2> the logo and name of the site itself.

I'll be gone for most of the day traveling, but lmk how I can improve this. I'm SUPER interested in feedback and constructive criticism.

Thanks all. Dain</comment>


Command Line Tricks for Data Scientists - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/@kadek/command-line-tricks-for-data-scientists-c98e0abe5da <comment><USER2> > To add file extensions, you'll need to run the following find command.

> It will change the names of ALL files within the current directory by > appending .csv, so be careful.

> find . -type f -exec mv '{}' '{}'.csv \;

Could use instead:

      find . -name 'new_filname*' -exec mv '{}' '{}'.csv \;

Although simpler would be using:

      split -l 500 filename.csv --additional-suffix=.cvs

Also the suffix supplied to sed's in-place is optional

      sed -i '' 's/\$//g' data.txt
      sed -i    's/\$//g' data.txt # same as above</comment>


We're about to kill a massive, accidental experiment in reducing global warming - <AUTHOR> https://www.technologyreview.com/s/610007/were-about-to-kill-a-massive-accidental-experiment-in-halting-global-warming/ <comment><USER2> > In 2016, the UN's International Maritime Organization announced that by > 2020, international shipping vessels will have to significantly cut sulfur > pollution. Specifically, ship owners must switch to fuels with no more than > 0.5 percent sulfur content, down from the current 3.5 percent, or install > exhaust cleaning systems that achieve the same reduction, Shell noted in a > brochure for customers.

The UN has teeth like a 17-year old golden retriever... So who is actually going to enforce these mandates? I don't think the various flag-of-convenience countries will go out of their way to enforce regulations. Nor, in the present circumstances, would I expect much movement on the issue from the United States or China.

<comment><USER3> ICAO, the U.N.agency for flights, is regulatory captured by the airlines, manufacturers and fuel providers, wrt the huge environmental impact of aviation. It wouldn't surprise me if the same were true for IMO.

Meaning, changes in the market/technology have got the industry 95% of the way to the target, and they have added the target and will do the last 5% for the PR and to keep the rest of the UN environmental stuff (including the next COP meetings) off their backs.</comment></comment>


LayerVault Sends DMCA Takedown Letter re Flat-UI - <AUTHOR> https://github.com/github/dmca/commit/735e17614cca63102b8414ed2846c3effbfe9535#commitcomment-2751021 <comment><USER3> For the lazy, here's a summary of the claims that LV/DN is making:

Some icons appear to be heavily inspired by LV.

Here are three icons (circled) from Flat-UI: <http://i.imgur.com/xDDULcG.png>

You can see that the gears and news icons do bear some similarity to LV's versions: [http://dribbble.com/shots/800428-LayerVault-icon-set-for- del...](http://dribbble.com/shots/800428-LayerVault-icon-set-for-delivery) and <http://imgur.com/rli5IVU> (the latter via <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5332741>)

In addition, LV claims that Flat-UI ripped off a number of other icons from dribble.com, such as this clock and map (Flat-UI above, originals below): <http://cl.ly/image/3Q181w0b1u2K> (original dribble links: <http://dribbble.com/shots/695458-Nasa-Playbook-Icons> and <http://dribbble.com/shots/877061-Map-2013>).

Finally, the color schemes have been claimed to be identical: <http://pixxel.co/feed/layervault-issues-dmca-takedown>

LV appears to be confused as to what constitutes copyright infringement. None of these icons are actually copies of the original, and even if they were LV would not have a right to issue a DMCA takedown for the ones they didn't own.

This seems to be a massive PR blunder for the LV guys. They could have put up a blog post enumerating how many of their (and others') designs were _ripped off_ (which is not the same thing as copyright infringement) and probably garnered some internet sympathy. Now, by misusing the much-hated DMCA takedown notice they've positioned themselves in the same camp with all the DMCA bullies we have grown to loathe.

<comment><USER4> That looks pretty much open and shut, as if using a vague DMCA in itself wasn't already enough of a hint.

It's not even a rip-off. The basic pattern for the icons is insanely generic, and the execution is clearly different. The color scheme is a very common one.

It bears a resemblance as much as one black leather shoe bears a resemblance to another black leather shoe. It's not even worth making a passing remark about, let alone going nuclear with a DMCA.

LayerVault _are_ copyright trolls and bullies.

<comment><USER5> Give me a break. One single misguided DMCA notice does not make one a copyright _troll_.

<comment><USER6> One who trolls with copyright is a copyright troll. This is not a difficult concept.

<comment><USER7> Making a mistake is not the same thing as trolling. Trolling is being willfully wrong, usually to gain some benefit (eliciting a pleasurable response, financial gain).

Showing that they were incorrect does not show they are a troll.

<comment><USER8> If LayerVault made a mistake and apologized, sure. But one look at their twitter page & their response on designer news implies no apology is forthcoming. So, they are copyright trolls and bullies. They are not only running against the spirit of the law, but also the letter of it.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> And here's a reply from Allan: [https://news.layervault.com/stories/1992-layervault-whats- up...](https://news.layervault.com/stories/1992-layervault-whats-up-with-the- dmca)

Looks like the pitchforks are out over on HN.

It was pretty straightforward. Our reaction was "Cool, a flat UI theme" to "Wait, this looks familiar" to "Wait, are those our illustrations?".

I contacted the designmodo people over email, because that's the right way to handle this. The owner was being stubborn at first and refused to admit wrongdoing. At that point, I submitted the DMCA request. Eventually, he removed the most blatant icons which (in my eyes) is an admission of guilt.

They even managed to kinda lift the old DN icon :) <http://imgur.com/3zoKuvH>

If you have some intimiate knowledge of LayerVault's UI (which their designer apparently does), the similarities are a bit more than striking. That's not a huge issue until you release everything together - the icons, the colors, the UI elements, whatever.

We give a lot of our stuff away for free. We put a lot of our projects on cosmos.layervault.com, we write about interesting concepts we've come up with and include the code on our blog, whatever. This isn't about thinking we own "Flat Design" or being mad that there's some other design out there with a similar aesthetic.

<comment><USER10> A really good way to coerce the pitchforks back into their sheds is to provide proof, especially when your DMCA is vague and posted on a ridiculously public platform.

Allan has done neither, and still hasn't done so in his tweets or this post over on his bubbly walled garden. A few simple side-by-side screenshots would have sufficed and put the court of public opinion squarely on his side. He may be completely in the right but his approach left him open to the "pitchforks" he's so dismissively bemoaning.

<comment><USER11> Here's the side by side comparison

Noun Project vs Layer Vault vs Flat UI

<http://imgur.com/IH1osAD>

If anyone notice other similar icons, I can update image with side by side comparison.

*Thanks to fellow HNers for the links to the images. I just stuck it all together side by side.

Edit: Updated with more samples.

<comment><USER12> Wow, that is considerably less egregious than I had imagined it would be.

From my initial reading, it sounded like images were outright copied, or copied and slightly altered. That is hardly the case in these examples.

If there aren't any stronger examples than these, then LayerVault wouldn't seem to have much of a basis for all this.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> The founder of LayerVault is claiming it was specific illustrations which were stolen

<https://twitter.com/Allan/status/309346292902014976> <https://twitter.com/Allan/status/309350351054716929>

<comment><USER13> This needs to be the top comment here, rather than people insinuating that LV called for a DMCA takedown because 'they look alike'

<comment><USER14> Bet on HN embarrassing itself every time on stories like this.

<comment><USER15> HN posters being reactionary to hot topics like DMCA when all the facts aren't out? Say it ain't so.

<comment><USER16> Except I've read most of the comments and on the whole they seem a) correct (to my understanding of the DMCA) and b) reasonable and well thought out.

<comment><USER15> The initial ones were very reactionary about boycotting Layer Vault and so on. The DMCA is super wishy washy, and I can't say whether this is a valid use or not because IANAL.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> I have the old pre-dmca Flat UI gitgub page from yesterday open in another window, and designmodo has apparently made a few changes since then. Just based on that, I'm going to guess that the problem was stemming from these.

<http://i.imgur.com/xDDULcG.png>

<comment><USER18> I can find icons that kinda look a bit like those that were removed (<http://dribbble.com/shots/875799-Designer-News>, [http://dribbble.com/shots/800428-LayerVault-icon-set-for- del...](http://dribbble.com/shots/800428-LayerVault-icon-set-for-delivery)) but nothing that's a direct copy.

<comment><USER19> They look sort of the same? Three gears in a circle. A guy with a chat bubble in a kinda same style?

You can't issue a DCMA based on sort of look a likes. Or everyone would be DCMAing everyone else.

So the entire DCMA is invalid.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Complete Side by Side Comparison

TLDR:

Noun Project vs Layer Vault vs Flat UI

<http://imgur.com/IH1osAD>

If anyone notice other similar icons, I can update image with side by side comparison.

Thanks to fellow HNers for the links to the images. I just stuck it all together side by side.

Edit: Updated with more samples.

<comment><USER20> There's arguably the talking heads as well:

[http://dribbble.com/shots/800428-LayerVault-icon-set-for- del...](http://dribbble.com/shots/800428-LayerVault-icon-set-for-delivery)

<http://i.imgur.com/xDDULcG.png>

<comment><USER21> That talking head / speech bubble concept is generic:

[https://www.google.com/search?q=%22talking+head%22+bubble...](https://www.google.com/search?q=%22talking+head%22+bubble&hl=en&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Wpg3UciSMYWRrAGR8YCQDw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ&biw=1361&bih=866)

The Noun Project also has a profile speech version, though with curved lines instead of the bubble: <http://thenounproject.com/noun/speech/#icon-No1202>

Flat UI's version might have been partially inspired by LayerVault, but it's far from identical. In fact, the Flat UI head is very similar to the Noun Project's head, similar to how the LayerVault's newspaper is similar to the Noun Project's.

<comment><USER20> I know that its a bit of a stretch but it wouldn't have surprised me if the head/bubble icon came up during the email conversation that preceded the DMCA being filed though.

Doesn't mean I agree with it, but if you're going to have everything that potentially infringes LV's work you might as well put the stupid ones too. Plus it's now missing which makes it a bit suspicious (though the replacement is far better IMO which would explain the head's absence too)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Filing a counter notification is extremely straightforward, and moves this to a court dispute, which will almost undoubtedly never happen.

You can use Chilling Effects Counter-Notification generator to automate the process:

<http://www.chillingeffects.org/dmca/counter512.pdf>

For those who are unfamiliar with DMCA notices, in short:

1\. Content Provider Receives DMCA

2\. Content Provider must act 'expeditiously' to remove content which is claimed to be infringing

3\. Individual has an opportunity to submit a counter notification to their content provider, in which case the content can be reinstated after 10 business days regardless of the other parties claims. (Unless an injunction is obtained.)

4\. Any further action is only by legal means (court injunction)

Disclaimer: IANAL (yet)

<comment><USER23> Curious: What happens if the individual in question is NOT in the US? Can this still be done?

<comment><USER22> EDIT: After rereading your question, I'm assuming you're referring to a situation similar to my third example scenario, that might best address it.

Generally:

\- If the content provider is outside of the United States, DMCA is not valid whatsoever. However, some organizations, especially in English speaking countries, will honor it simply as a notice of infringement.

\- If the individual sending the complaint is outside the United States, but the content provider is within the US, usually the content provider will cooperate anyway to protect themselves from legal obligation under Safe Harbor provisions.

\- If the end user receiving the complaint is outside the United States and the content provider is within the US then the content provider should still honor the counter notice and would be covered by Safe Harbor provisions. I'm not sure on the specifics of this, however you must at minimum consent to the jurisdiction of US Federal Law for any further actions.

For the most part, the content provider / hosting company will do what is in their best interest to legally safeguard themselves, with little regard for end user rights. Generally speaking, the larger the company the moreso this applies.

Github seems like a reasonable organization, and if you submit a counter notification in valid format they should act accordingly.

Also, I see the Chilling Effects URL is getting hammered, here's a static version which you can modify: <http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Terrorism/form- letter.html>

While unrelated to this issue specifically, something which is interesting to note is that in a several year old paper from Vanderbilt University, they specifically mention a provision dealing with enforcing the DMCA on foreign websites. While this provision has never been used to my knowledge it does exist and is quite scary considering the implications:

While direct action against a foreign site is not possible in U.S. courts, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act ("DMCA") allows courts to order the blocking of infringing sites. Section 512(j)(1)(B)(ii) (the "Foreign Site Provision") permits an order to restrain an Internet service provider ("ISP") from providing access to a "specific, identified, online location outside the United States." Therefore this provision, with some limitations, may be used to block U.S. access to infringing foreign sites.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Why don't we, as a community, collectively agree to boycott copyright trolls? (and teach them a lesson in the process)

esp. when the target audience consists of developers/designers

EDIT: I tried to cross-post this on Designer News, but it turns out they're invite-only. Can someone do me the honour?

<comment><USER25> Why don't we, as a community, put away the pitchforks until hearing from both sides?

Looking at the top comment in the thread (<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5332398>), it seems that DesignModo lifted some of their illustrations straight from the LayerVault site.

<comment><USER24> He only mentions that it looks similar - which isn't enough to file a DMCA takedown. When does it become problematic? When there's an identical icon in both sets, which I haven't been able to find so far.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> Am I understanding this right; that LayerVault is trying to claim that they are the sole owners of the flat UI trend? I'm sorry Allan, I've been a fan of yours since before LayerVault was even launched, but this is really low. And if I'm remembering correctly, this isn't the first time you guys have harassed someone about using "your" aesthetic.

<comment><USER27> It's not about the flat UI trend. If you look at Layervault, their design is really unique and top notch. Flat UI-framework is _heavily_ inspired by Layervault's design. There's no doubt about it. Same roundings, paddings, pastel color scheme, etc. They look visually extremely similar.

LayerVault is obviously pissed that a design similar to their unique design will be used by amateur Bootstrappers all over the web.

<comment><USER11> I think we're all upset more about the attitude and approach of how LV went about this.

You can't patent Colors / Helvetica Neue / Rounded Corner Squares. It just reeks of tactics similar to patent trolls.

I think a while back there was blog theme used that was similar to Svbtle, but there was no take down notice or such nonsense. It generated a decent discussion and conversations about something that's too close in style.

Look at @layervault on Twitter, they are just getting destroyed right now. Even by designers, their main target audience.

If they went along the lines like 'Hey, this is pretty similar to our design. We think it's cool we inspired you but can you deviate it from us a bit more or re-name the project to like Layervault Bootstrap?' I mean why not - <USER2> your name in the same conversation as Twitter Bootstrap!

A total botched and missed opportunity.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> Can someone please summarize for those of us not plugged in to the web UI framework (or whatever this is) community? I'm seeing entities like "LayerVault" and "Flat UI" and products (?) named "trend" that I've never heard of.

Is this an abuse of process I should actually care about or is it just a "who did what?" spit between estranged developers?

<comment><USER29> This appears to be an abuse of process from LayerVault.

They have a design in a style that's not quite originally theirs-- they've seemingly abused the DMCA to have github remove a completely unrelated UI kit in the same style.

The two items in question are as follows: <https://layervault.com/> <http://designmodo.github.com/Flat-UI/>

Flat UI has (seemingly) been designed and developed completely independently, having nothing to do with LayerVault. No artwork is derived, based-upon, designed by the same artist, etc.

You should care about this because the process is biased towards the accuser. Given no chance to rebut, Flat UI is removed, and disabled. Despite providing his side of the story in the commit comments [https://github.com/github/dmca/commit/735e17614cca63102b8414...](https://github.com/github/dmca/commit/735e17614cca63102b8414ed2846c3effbfe9535#commitcomment-2750768), the author now has to write a _formal_ counter-takedown notification, and the repository will _still_ be offline for up to 10 days (<https://help.github.com/articles/dmca-takedown>)

Furthermore, 'designers' and HN users should care because LayerVault runs a 'Hacker News' for designers at <https://news.layervault.com/>. LayerVault is not the right entity to run this site after these DMCA shenanigans (if in fact no infringement has taken place).

<comment><USER30> The rebuttal is a DMCA Counter-Notification. They're easy to write and just asset that you do in fact own the copyright, or are otherwise authorised the use the materials that the DMCA notice referred to. Once that's been done, the host has to restore the removed content within a certain time period and the issuers of the original notice have to take action directly against you (as in sue you) if they want to pursue the issue further.

Before we start yelling about "abuse of process" though, we might want to wait for more information about what's actually going on here. It would hardly be the first time one small company has used another company's assets without permission, so perhaps we should see what LayerVault has to say before getting so worked up.

<comment><USER31> The host cannot restore that content within 10 days.

10 days can be a long time to have stuff go unexpectedly offline.

<comment><USER32> Could be the death of a website / community.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> What I personally don't understand is that if DesignModo did actually copy assets from LayerVault, why doesn't LV name said assets and possibly include screenshots or whatever in the DMCA claim? Or make a post about it. Or really, _anything_ that would include the specific information so that people wouldn't be left guessing. As evident by the reactions, not being specific here only serves to make LV's claims seem unsubstantial. I'm personally rather doubtful about their validity for the same reason as well.

Also, I think it's pretty ridiculous that a DMCA takedown can even be "valid" without specifying _what_ exactly was infringed - _"I am the exclusive rights holder for the artwork contained within Flat UI, Free Web User Interface Kit"_ isn't exactly saying much.

</comment><comment><USER34> Without some extraordinary explanation by Layer Vault detailing an actual theft of files or copying of their actual work, it sounds like Layer Vault just did a _major_ scumbag move that harms designers everywhere.

And that's a shame because I like Layer Vault _a lot_.

</comment><comment><USER35> Maybe Hacker News should send you a take down notice for copying HN with "Designer News" aka DN?

<https://news.layervault.com/stories>

<comment><USER36> Ha, this is totally a bubbly rip off of HN

<comment><USER37> Absolutely!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER38> Whether this is true or false, I see this hurting LayerVault more than it's worth fighting. It will be interesting to see this play out.

<comment><USER39> Agreed. Imagine if LayerVault had taken a more transparent and community oriented approach and said: hey guys, the flat gui project is really cool and we're delighted that it got inspired by our stuff, namely x, y, z (comparison screenshots).

</comment></comment><comment><USER40> You can't copyright a color pallet. You can't copyright an icon concept.

Sending DMCA take-downs without full intent to prosecute and full conviction that your copyrights have been violated is not only illegal but shameful.

</comment><comment><USER41> For being a design oriented company, LayerVault can't choose type colors worth shit. I can barely read any of the body text on nearly every page of their site.

They need to read up on W3's proposed contrast minimums: <http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG/#visual-audio-contrast-contrast>

</comment><comment><USER42> What's kind of ridiculous is that LayerVault took a lot of inspiration (I repeat, A LOT) from Hacker News with regards to the design of their discussion site. From the URL, the minimalism, and the link design. Heck, even the name is copied -- Designer News? Really?

I guess pg should send a DMCA takedown notice to them, then.

</comment><comment><USER43> I thought "look and feel" lawsuits over UI were settled long ago?

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Software#.22Look_and_feel...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Software#.22Look_and_feel.22_lawsuits)

<comment><USER44> From the DMCA takedown letter:

> I am the exclusive rights holder for the artwork contained within Flat UI

That's quite a difference to "look and feel". Right now, there is just not enough information to know what this is all about.

<comment><USER43> Not sure what "artwork" was copied if any.

If it was icons, I think a court said recently icons cannot be copyrighted?

Ah maybe it was thumbnails cannot be copyrighted.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER45> Congratulations to LayerVault on their biggest day of traffic ever. Whether this brew-ha-ha was intentional or not, a lot more people are now aware of them than before today.

I like browsing their Designer News links on a daily basis, but I would think twice about signing up for a service run by people with questionable character and morals, which is the feeling I am coming away with after reading through this thread.

This whole thing could have been handled a lot better and with far more professionalism.

</comment><comment><USER20> I can't help but think this sort of thing is going to happen more and more as we move towards a flat/minimalist UI.

I've read comments (not on HN) from people who have endorsed the DMCA takedown because of their personal ethics and morals rather than knowledge of the law. Particularly one who claimed that the similar colour palettes between LV and Flat UI justified the takedown - even though colour palettes themselves are currently not copyrightable subject matter. To win on those grounds you'd need a genius (and crazy) lawyer and a judge who is either asleep at the wheel or bribed. Then you'd lose on appeal anyway.

Colours can be only trademarked. Using that colour is not a copyright violation. Hence no DMCA.

It makes me sad that as we all move towards minimalist design startup founders will need to know IP law better than a few years ago. Some of this is due to trolling and some because of a mislead or otherwise naive understanding of the law like I mentioned above. It's just adding pressure on founders that we don't really need and more work for lawyers.

A lot of us are doing whatever we're doing for the first time and that makes us (potentially) easy targets. A better knowledge of the law in this scenario might have prevented everything from blowing up like it has. But Flat UI and Layervault wouldn't have had as much energy put into the product and so everyone suffers.

Then again I'm in law school right now so at least I know there's a job in all of this if i ever need it :-/

I guess I just wish we could stop bickering about stuff like this and get on with building cool stuff.

</comment><comment><USER46> I don't care for the whole "flatUI" trend, but I REALLY can't stand this kind of blatant abuse of the DMCA (which itself can be argued to be an abuse of common sense).

</comment><comment><USER37> I not see any resemblance between layervault project and Flat UI, colors are different, icons too... explain please guys what is the problem?

<comment><USER47> I checked the colors and they're different. They may look the same, also square/flat interface is part of Windows 8.

<comment><USER48> I'm pretty sure colors cannot be protected by copyright.

<comment><USER49> Whilst (afaik) unrelated to the DCMA claim at hand, it is possible to _trademark_ a specific colour, with plenty of examples at [1], and there have been controversial suits over 'infringement' in the past. My recollection is that colour trademarks are much more restrictive in their coverage than other forms, although I may be wrong there.

Edit: Emphasise the trademark-ability, not copyright-ability, of particular colours/palettes.

[1] [http://www.businessinsider.com/colors-that-are- trademarked-2...](http://www.businessinsider.com/colors-that-are- trademarked-2012-9?op=1)

<comment><USER50> Trademark infringement and copyright infringement are different things. The DMCA only deals with copyright.

Plus, it is actually fairly difficult to trademark a color.

<comment><USER49> > _Trademark infringement and copyright infringement are different things._

Yes, I'm aware of that, and have edited original comment emphasise it. I had vaguely thought there was some provision in the DMCA for remedies for other types of IP infringement as well as copyright, but haven't really looked into it that much. Then again, given how much easier it is to (potentially) infringe some trademarks, the severity of the remedy (immediate takedown, with perhaps later return) does seem like overkill.

I wasn't arguing that it was easy, merely possible. The examples all do seem to be large companies with significant legal budgets and generally strong or exclusive brands though, which does indicate it being quite rare.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER51> Am I the only one here who sees nothing wrong with copying icons? Layer Vault doesn't own the things they freely display for others to imitate.

I'm repulsed at the idea of "owning" a visual depiction of a fucking newspaper.

And yes, I've worked for years of my life as a designer. I know what if feels like to have people copy you.

<comment><USER52> I'm not into people directly using the exact files I create myself (I mean, do your own work). But I don't think anybody owns the idea of "three cogs", "a newspaper that curls to the left", or "a head with a speech bubble". Don't get me started on things like Coke owning a particular part of the red light spectrum... Value comes from solving problems, not from a font, or a colour, or a texture, or a style.

<comment><USER52> EDIT: When I say i'm not into it, I don't mean I mind people using things I've made as building blocks for their own creations. I just think if you're going to use something, make something new/better out of it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER53> The reality is that DesignModo is not new to this.

I have been waiting for this to happen for a while. Their "Bricks UI" is an extremely blatant copy of Google Ventures' web site, and it's weird nothing happened there.

<http://www.googleventures.com/> <http://designmodo.com/the-bricks-addons/>

I'm not on either side, but it's just painful to watch the reactions on HN. It seems like a lot of the commenters were just closed down somewhere waiting for the right occasion to blame some copyright enforcer.

</comment><comment><USER54> Always With Honor should go after LayerVault. Saul Bass should go after Always With Honor. Picasso should go after Saul Bass.

Any designer that doesn't understand that design is an iterative process, shouldn't be a designer anymore.

</comment><comment><USER55> Damn.. I think I'll send myself a DMCA notice, post it on HN and get lots of traffic and noise around my brand

<comment> saiko-chriskun this is not good noise :/

<comment><USER56> Of course it is. A DMCA take down has people look at their content and download it. Any reasonably good business person would be able to twist this into sales.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER57> I'm not a massive fan of the most of the responses in this thread.

Any designer would look at Flat UI and immediately realize that they drew inspiration from LayerVault. The similarities aren't minor, in either style, tone, or techniques.

The three icons DesignModo removed were the most obvious offenders. And by obvious, I mean, "Yeah, you completely ripped those".

So DesignModo has absolutely no right, in any sense, to be indignant. They produced unoriginal, lazy, copied work, and got called out on it.

Within this thread, I see lots of idiotic bits such as "LayerVault doesn't own hex codes!", "You can't own a style!", etc etc. These type of comments miss the forest for the trees.

Individually, no, LayerVault has no right to claim ownership of any specific color. But Flat UI's rip is the combination of a rip of all things together, not one thing in specific. Change the color scheme of the illustrations and you'd have less of a case. Change the shadow technique, or the general aesthetic of the icons.

It's the COMBINATION of all of these factors which makes this a "rip".

Now, what DesignModo did may not be illegal, but why is anyone rushing to defend them? In what terrible universe is being an insipid, unoriginal copier something any community champions?

And why would anyone walk away with a negative opinion of LayerVault? Really? You don't think they should be slightly irked that DesignModo ripped off their distinctive style, and is _charging_ people for the chance to use it?

It baffles the mind.

<comment><USER58> I think you are confused about what we are most upset about. You don't even mention the DMCA once in your comment. The DMCA, and abuse of it, is something that gets HN's dander up. As far as we can tell, LV perjured themselves, either intentionally or through ignorance of what copyright actually means. The result is that legal material will have been taken off the internet for 10 days, with no repercussions, despite the (presumably) false claims made by LV. It is in this context that people are breaking out the pitchforks. If LV had made a blog post complaining about the "rip", they probably would have gained HN's sympathy.

<comment><USER57> Reading through the comments, I do see a few mentions of the DMCA, but there's plenty of "they don't own turquoise!" type comments as well.

If you're upset they used the DMCA (a legal tool made specifically for this type of situation), I guess that's fair, if slightly myopic.

<comment><USER59> I don't think you understand the DMCA. It is _NOT_ a legal tool for this type of situation.

The DMCA ("Digitam Millenium _COPYRIGHT_ Act") provides the take-down mechanism as a means to take down _copyright_ infringing content, and in exchange gives the hosts of that content a safe-harbor[1].

So when people say "they don't own turquoise", those people are correct. LayerVault _does not_ and _can not_ hold a copyright on turquoise, or on their _style_ of icon, and thus _does not_ have the right to issue a _copyright_ DMCA take-down notice for content made in the same _style_ as their own.

[1] If a host follows the DMCA take-down process, in theory they're safe from being sued for unwittingly and unintentionally _hosting_ copyrighted content. in practice, those suites tend to happen anyway, with the claim that the infringement was knowing -- see also youtube, megavideo).

<comment><USER57> And LV isn't going after them for turquoise, but for specific illustrations, which are copyrightable.

You're jumbling what LV actually did with the simplification of what they did.

<comment><USER58> AFAIK, the DMCA notice did not list specific images. Have you found the specific images that were copied?

<comment><USER57> Sadly, no. I'm mostly going off Allan's comments on the DN thread where he talks about them using their illustrations.

And also than they haven't been running around issuing DMCA's to every _other_ flat UI style everything.

Clearly, they believe specific assets were copied to the point that a DMCA was appropriate. Pending a full post from LV, I'm giving them the benefit, as I'm certainly not giving the benefit of the doubt to the designers who so thoroughly ripped LV's style.

Should that post never come, or its contents show LV as trying to enforce a copyright on something that was merely "inspired" and not copied, I'll change my tone.

<comment><USER60> It doesn't matter. A valid DMCA takedown notice is fully self-contained. There's no follow-up, no sending someone to a blog post, or anything else. If it's not in the takedown, it's not material to the claim.

Refer to Perfect 10, Inc. v. Google if you're curious.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER61> I think this serves as a great testimony to just how homogenous / under- considered the "flat" aesthetic has become. For crying out loud, flatUI is a kit for replicating this appearance! I love the flat look, but as soon as kits for replicating a look start to grow in popularity, it's time to move on.

</comment><comment><USER62> The only thing that is not completely generic imo is the color scheme FlatUI picked, which is similar to the scheme on LayerVault. But it's not exactly the same (I checked, everything is quite close though). Don't think something like that warrants an action like this at all.

</comment><comment><USER63> Seems like their complaining about the news icon. Here's the DN icon and the flat-ui icon side by side: [https://acr- skitch.s3.amazonaws.com/news.png-20130306-130455...](https://acr- skitch.s3.amazonaws.com/news.png-20130306-130455.png)

</comment><comment><USER64> When the Flat UI was released, I was waiting for Layervaults response. In their defence, the style, colors, some of the icons are very close to Layervaults, so I can understand their frustration. I have no doubt that designmodo had more than "inspiration" from Layervault.

Probably they didn't break copyright, but basically they copied the style and made it a commodity (this is like the Svbtle thing all over again). Flat design is a trend, but I haven't seen similar site, with similar colors and style as Layervault. When you ripoff something almost 1:1 in design, necessarily it isn't illegal but it isn't honorable either. As a designer, you shouldn't do that to other designers.

<comment><USER65> I think that if they hadn't gone DMCA on Design Modo there would be a lot more sympathy here. Until LV shows that copyright was infringed (show us the _exact_ copies), I'm on the side of "the DMCA was used incorrectly here and even maliciously."

</comment></comment><comment><USER66> The designmodo logo is quite debian-esque. Maybe too close to debian's i'd think.

EDIT: [https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/7d9027189b18855f5f2ddeb7d...](https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/7d9027189b18855f5f2ddeb7db62311c.jpg)

<comment><USER67> Eh, they're just logos. They're pretty different.

Ignoring the colour (red on white VS white on blue) and the distressing of the Debian logo vs the cleanness of the designmodo logo there's the opening of the spiral - Debian curve starts at 6 o clock, while designmodo starts at 4:30 or 5 o clock. And the inside of the Debian loop goes further.

<comment><USER68> But they're _similar_. They were _obviously_ copied with willful and malicious intent! DMCA sent!

[ Note that the DN logo and the FlatUI newspaper icon that have been held up as examples by LV are about as similar as these two icons. ]

<comment><USER66> _doesnt bother shaking head in dismay, just wanders off_

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER69> If these layervault dickholes really believed so strongly in this, they'd issue a DMCA against designmodo's webhost.

But then designmodo would absolutely be forced to defend itself and layervault would be liable in court.

DMCA is a bunch of bullshit.

</comment><comment><USER70> Reply from LayerVault - [https://news.layervault.com/stories/1992-layervault- whats-up...](https://news.layervault.com/stories/1992-layervault-whats-up- with-the-dmca)

</comment><comment><USER11> Does anyone have a active subscription to Layervault?

Here's the Flat UI designs: <http://designmodo.github.com/Flat-UI/>

LV is saying that illustrations/artwork was the reason for the notice so if anyone have artwork on the dashboard they can compare that'd be great (cause I can't find any copied artwork from their main site).

Layervault <https://layervault.com/>

The issue is artwork/illustration.

</comment><comment><USER71> I like the way how Github handles DMCA requests by the way, everything's out in the open, including the lame claims people come up with.

</comment><comment><USER72> Really glad I downloaded Flat UI yesterday before this crap started 'coz I'm gonna be using it for a project this weekend.

Fortunately I only wanted the CSS. If an illustration was stolen (which seems unlikely, or at least it wasn't done with designmodo's knowledge), that won't affect me since I'm not using any of them.

<comment><USER73> Would you be kind enough to email me a copy.

username at gmail

<comment><USER74> You could just download it by inspecting <http://designmodo.github.com/Flat- UI/>

<comment><USER75> That's a 404.

I'd love a copy too, actually. Just the CSS. username @gmail.com as well, if you'd be so kind.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> This is why we can't have nice things.

Even Apple didn't even go after others when rounded corners, glassy/glossy, gradient buttons was the trend. (Yes, Apple didn't invent those, just as LV didn't invent flat UI or the art work - which btw, is just a flat color. Glad Pantone isn't going around with LV's mentality.)

Just speechless.

<comment><USER76> Apple does go after other designs that are similar to theirs, but (big BUT), they don't use DMCA unless there was an actual copy of their artwork/software. They file an injunction with a judge to stop sales of the product and/or sue them in civil court.

</comment></comment><comment><USER77> Anyone got a clone of flat-ui?

</comment><comment><USER78> The DMCA counter-notice has been submitted: [https://github.com/github/dmca/commit/6a33a213e04e7fc5e74ce3...](https://github.com/github/dmca/commit/6a33a213e04e7fc5e74ce3cab80fee778f641acc)

</comment><comment><USER79> It is still available for download on their site: <http://designmodo.com/flat- free/>

</comment><comment><USER80> When you use an overly simplistic visual style, don't be surprised when it turns out to be very easy to rip off.

</comment><comment><USER81> Coders Twitter account <https://twitter.com/iurevych>

</comment><comment><USER82> Does anyone notice a striking similarity between the "Debian swirl" and the e in Designmodo?

It's obviously not a copy of it, but rather an "inspired version" of it. With that being said, it's definitely possible that designmodo didn't copy layervault, but rather was "inspired" by them. Not sure how that would stand up legally, but I would say that if I were designer, it would be "ethically annoying".

<comment><USER83> Everything in design is inspired. This has been a basis for debate since the beginning of copyright law but it has been decided for a long time that inspiration alone is in no way infringement.

</comment></comment><comment><USER84> Nice color scheme. I just copied it to colourlovers.com. Now many can enjoy it.

</comment><comment><USER85> Now the "no design skills required" slogan from their site makes perfect sense.

</comment><comment><USER86> Anyone can provide a mirror ?

</comment><comment><USER87> so disappointing when our generation(s) act to limit the Internet. LayerVault please stop, we really dig ur stuff.

</comment><comment><USER37> true tweet! - <https://twitter.com/iconfinder/status/309337478207262720>

<comment><USER23> Looks like it was deleted. What was it?

<comment><USER37> here is screenshot - <http://i.imm.io/Ynhs.png>

<comment><USER88> imgur please. Only one I can view at work =/

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment> saiko-chriskun anyone manage to clone the repo?

<comment><USER89> I found a link to it... please only use for investigative purposes:

<http://ge.tt/19rXMGa/v/0?c>

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> let me guess, the next one you're going to report is microsoft, or google?

</comment><comment><USER90> Someone please lend LayerVault some contrast.

<http://i.imgur.com/jfSuxcK.png>

<http://i.imgur.com/cMO4lxA.png>

<http://i.imgur.com/JnaZdN7.png>

I cannot believe a "top notch" design house can get this so wrong.

Edit: Designer News seems to suffer from the same affliction.

<https://news.layervault.com/>

A lot of sites that are HN these days seem to lack contrast, what's up with that?

<comment><USER91> I hope you realize that the main audience of layervault and designer news is designers. Their site (which I've seen many times before) looks fine on my screen. And I would be willing to wager a bet that the majority of their core audience would have decent/pretty good screens.

I'm all about usability but I'm also lenient when the audience isn't as wide as what Amazon or eBay have to cater to.

I think it's a little unnerving that you'd put 'top notch.' None of those examples are break it for me as a designer and a potential customer. Overall the style and feel of the site is significantly memorable and it's a site that I've come back to time and time again.

<comment><USER92> > I hope you realize that the main audience of layervault and designer news is > designers.

That statement disturbs me a bit, because it seems to imply that contrast and readability aren't important to designers, and that designers are grudgingly humouring us normals when they make designs with legible text sizes in readable colour combinations for our ugly utilitarian sites.

I don't think that's true, though. I've been lucky enough to work with some very talented designers with the ability to make things that are both elegant and readable. Anything else is just narcissistic posing, after all.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER93> I learned one thing: I will never use LayerVault's service, and discourage anyone I know from using it.

<comment><USER13> How about you look into the issue rather than making bold comments with no basis.

<https://twitter.com/Allan/status/309346292902014976> <https://twitter.com/Allan/status/309350351054716929>

<comment><USER59> There's no proof. All they've said so far seems to demonstrate a lack of understanding about what copyright actually is, as well as a general case of business immaturity.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER94> What are the penalties for a false DMCA claim?

<comment> saiko-chriskun There really should be more penalties for this.

<comment><USER94> Apparently, the notices say "under penalty of perjury", but at the very least you should be able to sue abusers civilly. I'm just not sure that is a great recourse for open source.

DMCA needs reform on this. There needs to be scale of fines for parties that issue takedowns based upon false copyright claims.

<comment><USER95> The part that's "under penalty of perjury" is only the statement that you are authorized to act on behalf of a copyright holder, not that your claims are true.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER94> Could a site have a policy where if you issue a DMCA takedown for something on the site they drop your content and ban you?

It's sort of like the logic of GPL.

<comment><USER96> I like that idea. The License to the OPUS codec uses it. If you sue another user of the opus codec, you must stop using opus. :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER97> Maybe they own a few hex codes.

</comment><comment><USER37> True! - <https://twitter.com/awmichel/status/309341548980625409></comment>