ILLIAC, an early clockless cpu design - <AUTHOR> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/univOfIllinoisUrbana/illiac/ILLIAC/ILLIAC_Design_Techniques_May55.pdf <comment><USER2> I am wondering, why Australian machine was called SILLIAC

<comment><AUTHOR> The 'S' in SILLIAC stands for 'Sydney'.

<comment><USER2> Thanks got it. Still the name is funny.</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: How much should I charge for building a website for this startup? - <AUTHOR>

Hello everyone,
I am a student in college. I was recruited by a group of business major friends to build a website for a notes-sharing web-business they are creating. The problem is, I'm not sure what is considered reasonable payment. Currently, the group of creators have been speaking to me as if I'm in their inner circle of founding members. I'm not sure that's the best though.
I'm meeting with the two guys who are in charge (the CEOs I guess, though they don't call themselves that) of the business in 80 minutes to finalize what I'm getting. Something to keep in mind: there's a good chance the company won't take off, but I can see it as very possible for them to rake in several hundred or even thousands of dollars at first. Some things I need to decide are
* Should I ask for a large percentage of first year profits, a smaller percentage of all profits made using my site, or a flat rate?
* How much should I charge?
* Should I consider myself a part of the company, or not?
* Who owns the code, them or me?
I spoke to them briefly about this before and we were kind of hovering around 45% of the income made during the first year. I thought this was reasonable, but I am inexperienced. When I mentioned this to my parents as a side remark on the phone, they instantly became angry and said I was selling too low. According to their view, I should be making 45% of all profits indefinitely while the site I made is being used. They have a lot more business experience than I do, although not with startups and webdev.
What do you think is a reasonable offer? I think it's important to note I have a bargaining advantage because they had a difficult time finding someone who they thought was a competent webdeveloper and they would have a difficult time replacing me <comment><USER2> Just an old guy's ramblings:

To percentages, I say take the cash and apply it to your college, or your own startup. Charge them in blocks of hours, and they pay up front for each block. If they can't pay now, they won't want to pay you if the money starts rolling in. Figure $120/hour in 10 or 20 hour blocks, depending on development needs.

To me, the "they had a difficult time finding someone" is a red flag. You should be in a position to fire them as a client without a messy breakup.

If you are considered a part of the startup, make sure you are not putting yourself in an actionable position. If it goes belly up there will be a reckoning in terms of unpaid bills, and the people they owe will go after everyone.

Again...just ramblings. I'm sure others will be a bit more cheery about it :)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the advice! I'll keep it in mind

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> 45% of profits, may or may not be good. Off the top of my head, they will have...

* hosting costs (and everything that goes with that)

* payroll & benefits (are they paying themselves?)

* taxes (the rate they are taxed is dependent on the state they incorporated in and the type of corporation they are incorporated as (Sole Proprietor, LLC, S or C Corp))

* misc.

It could turn out that they don't run a profit, yet still generate revenue. If you feel that it has legs, you may want to ask for a percentage of the company. This would make you an employ and would allow you in the future the potential to receive dividends on profit. This is taxed at 15% instead of normal personal income tax rates. (obviously i'm looking at this from the USA point of view.)

Just my $0.02

 _edited stuff_

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> OP here. I'm considering the following. 45% of revenue while I'm with the company and maintaining the site. If I leave, I get 20% of profits for 3 years or while my code base is being used, whichever is shorter. How does that sound?</comment>


Basic Income: A Sellout of the American Dream - <AUTHOR> https://www.technologyreview.com/s/601499/basic-income-a-sellout-of-the-american-dream/ <comment><USER2> I was hoping to see people on Hacker News rebut this article, or at least _comment_ on it.</comment>


Amazing tensorflow GitHub projects - <AUTHOR> https://sourcedexter.com/amazing-tensorflow-github-projects/ <comment><USER2> These seem to be a random selection of TF projects.

For example, the sentence classification project is interesting because it uses a CNN instead of one of the more common techniques for working with text (eg, a LSTM etc). In this case that _does_ make it interesting, but the unique aspect of that isn't really pointed out anywhere.

Also, the discount code for stuff at the bottom makes it pretty clear what this post is really about.</comment>


Remaining Trouble Spots with Computational Thinking - <AUTHOR> https://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2017/6/217742-remaining-trouble-spots-with-computational-thinking/fulltext <comment><USER2> I am not convinced there is a distinct discipline of computational thinking - all of the examples given seem to have antecedents that predate the practice of using computational machines to solve problems. The more one argues that computational thinking is generally useful, the less clear it becomes that there is anything unique about it.

I would replace the three questions of the article with two others:

1) Is the teaching of computing a particularly useful way to teach thinking skills, and if so, how can that be maximized?

2) How can we improve the use of general thinking skills in the practice of software development?

With regard to the second issue, I think it is somewhat ironic that the currently-dominant methodology for software development, agile methods, started as a revolt against analytical methods - computational doing as opposed to computational thinking, if you will.

</comment><comment><USER3> I think it's worth considering data science as a discipline to teach youngsters rather than computer science. It's quite visual at times, requiring less abstract thinking, although does depend on important algorithmic principles to process large amounts of data. Besides, data science is readily applicable to many other fields including Econ, languages, history, certainly math, but even art.

<comment><USER2> I agree that it should be taught, though I am not sure it requires any less abstract thinking than computer science, depending on how deep you go.

<comment><USER3> This sounds like an argument that you can make for many fields. In data science, certainly you can cover topics like clustering and PCA, which are reasonably advanced, but straightforward to teach because they can be visualized very clearly.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> This article does not really address for me the biggest point: is there any reason not to teach children computational thinking? I would say there is no such reason. We should teach children many ways of thinking so that they can be versatile thinkers. I do not see how an argument beyond that point is needed.

<comment><USER5> From the article:

> Finally, it is worth noting that educators have long promoted a large number > of different kinds of thinking: engineering thinking, science thinking, > economics thinking, systems thinking, logical thinking, rational thinking, > network thinking, ethical thinking, design thinking, critical thinking, and > more.

As a former teacher, which do I prioritise? There are a set number of hours in a school day, and I still need to teach the basic facts such as:

glucose + oxygen --> carbon dioxide + water

and:

Bonjour == Hello

Why would I waste time teaching "Computational thinking" if it's unproven whether or not it only actually benefits programmers?

<comment><USER4> But that's the point! You don't need to teach glucose + oxygen. Why would you waste time teaching "glucose + oxygen" when it's not proven to benefit anyone but biologists and chemists? You just need to teach them to think in many ways and they will figure the rest out. I believe a lot of the problems we have are because we don't have enough faith in our children.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I don't understand why you would teach kids "computational thinking" instead of just teaching them "programming".

<comment><USER7> Those two things are the same in the context of this article, computational thinking is what you get when you learn to program. "Seymour Papert may have been the first to use the term computational thinking in 1980, when in his book Mindstorms he described a mental skill children develop from practicing programming."

The author is questioning whether teaching programming really is good for anyone besides future programmers.

<comment><USER5> This is not the case. Many believe that CT is a way of thinking that can be completely separated from programming, and taught as an independent thinking skill.

For instance, the article talks about the problems is assessing CT. There is no such problem in assessing programming, just ask someone to solve a problem using their preferred language.

<comment><USER7> (Edit I rewrote this comment considerably to try harder to see and address your point of view, apologies if you read the first draft)

I understand your objection to my first sentence given that the premise of these 'many people' you and the article are talking about is that computational thinking is separable from programming. What I was trying to say in response to the parent comment is that trying to teach programming instead of teaching computational thinking perpetuates the unproven idea that everyone should learn computational thinking slash programming skills. Programming is one way to acquire computational thinking, so if computational thinking is separable from programming, then teaching programming is a narrower more specific approach toward the same goal. And the author questioned the goal.

OTOH, I see value in the comment I replied to - I prefer the idea of using a term (programming skill) that people know what it means and both how to teach and assess it. That comment may have been agreeing with the article author that "computational thinking" too vague to be useful in practice.

Computational thinking is trying too hard to separate itself from programming. We don't know they're separable, and we don't really know how to teach any "thinking" per se anyway. We don't learn "physical thinking" or "language thinking", we learn Physics and English, and (just like in CS) mostly by example.

The whole reason there's a "problem" assessing computational thinking is that it hasnt been shown to be an independent thinking skill. It hasn't been successfully separated from programming. The only known ways to teach it is to teach programming, and the only known ways to assess it is to assess programming skill.

The quote in my first comment was straight out of the article, and came from the person who ostensibly coined the term "computational thinking", and he defined CT as the skill gained from programming. I'm not saying that computational thinking is the practice of programming, what I'm saying is that computational thinking is acquired mental skills from programming a lot. If there's another way to learn computational thinking, someone needs to demonstrate.

Solving a specific problem using your preferred language isn't what we're talking about, that's not assessing programming skill in general. That would be like suggesting you derive the quadratic formula once in order to assess math skill. To assess programming skill, and to gauge computational thinking, you would need to solve a variety of problems. You might have trouble trying to do it in a single programming language, and it's tempting to think it should be generalizable and you can remove the language part. But it is yet to be shown that this can be done.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I need to put one of those "deep earning neural networks" to work.</comment>


Ask HN: How to Become Better at UI Design as a Software Engineer? - <AUTHOR> I'm pretty good at modeling data, doing heavy back-end coding, and even working with JavaScript, HTML, and CSS. I'd like to get better at actually designing interfaces and general web design layouts.
I can take an existing html bootstrap template and slice it up into partials and make things work with Angular or jQuery, or even good old server side template rendering. I want to take my skills further and be able to come up with unique designs for web applications.
Can anyone provide good resources or a starting point to become a good UI Designer? <comment><USER2> I'm enjoying The Non-Designer's Design Book - ([http://www.amazon.com/The-Non- Designers-Design-Book-Edition/...](http://www.amazon.com/The-Non-Designers- Design-Book-Edition/dp/0133966151)), as a guy who spends hours trying to figure out why my layouts look like crap, this book has really helped me get to grips with the basics. Which is tbh, where you need to start. After that, just keep reading, designing and failing. Dealing with the inevitable frustration is key (see educational mithridatism). Learning how to use a good design tool also helps a lot. I'm playing with Sketch which is pretty awesome.

I guess in the end, there is no real linear path to learning design. You just sort of have to bumble along until you find your stride.

</comment><comment><USER3> First, read The Design of Everyday Things. After that, I don't know.

I will say, though, that you won't ever come up with a good UI unless you watch people use it as early as possible. There is absolutely no substitute for sitting behind someone (preferably a lay person) and watching them try to accomplish whatever task they want with your UI.</comment>


Ask HN: How Are You? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> So far so good. Thanks for asking tho. How about yourself?

<comment><AUTHOR> Caught cold at the most inconvenient time</comment></comment>


An Old but Cool Result – Gödel's Lost Letter and P=NP - <AUTHOR> https://rjlipton.wordpress.com/2019/02/06/an-old-but-cool-result/ <comment><USER2> I was very confused. I didn't see anything about Godel or P=NP. Turns out it's the title of the blog.

<comment><USER3> Same here. I read it a few times trying to figure out what Gödel and P=NP have to do with the post :)

<comment><USER4> Mathematics click-bait?</comment></comment></comment>


Back to Basics: When allowing user uploads, don't allow uploads to execute code - <AUTHOR> http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BackToBasicsWhenAllowingUserUploadsDontAllowUploadsToExecuteCode.aspx

<comment><USER2> The author suggests not allowing uploads of files with specific extensions. That's ignoring the root cause of the problem: allowing uploads into a folder that your web server knows about. Why would you do that? Save all your uploads into some isolated directory on disk that the web server knows nothing about. What am I missing here?</comment>


Launch HN: Sequence Bio (YC S19) – Newfoundland's Genetics for Drug Discovery - <AUTHOR> Hi HN -
Chris Gardner here, founder of Sequence Bio (https://sequencebio.com). We're researching Newfoundland's enriched genetics and medical records to find and develop better, safer medicines.
First things first, let me tell you a bit about Newfoundland. Not only is it my home, but it's also a pretty unique place. Perched on Canada's most easterly coast, Newfoundland has its own 30 minute time zone, a Broadway musical about how nice we are (Come from Away), and a front row seat to humpback whales and 10,000 year old icebergs. Newfoundland's settlement pattern is also unique because it was settled in the 1700s by about 25,000 Irish and English people and there's been little inmigration ever since. In fact, it's estimated that about 90% of our 500,000 residents descend from those original settlers. This high degree of relatedness among residents, coupled with large families, makes Newfoundland a 'genetically isolated' population.
Because of this unique history and high degree of relatedness, genetically isolated populations like Newfoundland also have high frequencies of genetic variants that help explain the link between genetics, health and disease. Newfoundland itself has some of the highest rates of type 1 diabetes and colorectal cancer in the world. These links are important to pharma because they can help double the success rate of their drug programs, and over $4 Billion was spent last year to access genetic and medical data to find these links. But, not all data is created equal. The most valuable data come from populations with two characteristics: isolated genetics and uniform medical records in a centralized healthcare system. There's only a few places on earth with these characteristics (including Iceland, Finland, Japan and Qatar). One of them is Newfoundland.
Despite the opportunity for important discoveries in Newfoundland, genetic research here has a troubled past. In the 90s, researchers from Baylor University were dubbed the 'Texas Vampires' for flying into small Newfoundland towns and telling people they were at risk of dying suddenly due to a rare heart condition. These researchers coerced patients into providing blood samples and never returned to Newfoundland with the findings they promised, including insights that could inform treatment options for those with the rare heart condition. This was highly unethical, left Newfoundlanders skeptical of genetic research, and led the local Government to enact strict regulatory barriers.
My family has lived in Newfoundland for over 200 years and I wanted to see commercial genetic research done in a way that puts Newfoundlanders first. Genetic research has the opportunity to help us understand the diseases that impact Newfoundlanders the most while also having a positive global impact. People from outside Newfoundland have tried, and failed. And that's why I started Sequence Bio.
Sequence Bio is a local company that spent 5 years building the right ethical and legislative framework to access and study this data in a way that ensures Newfoundlanders are protected and benefit from our research.
Two key parts of this framework include:
1) Helping amend the Canadian Human Rights Act to outlaw genetic discrimination and protect the rights of those who donate their DNA for research; and
2) Fighting for (and winning) the right to return medically actionable findings. These findings include information on 59 medically actionable genes that have known treatment options (including the BRCA1 and BRCA2 genes associated with elevated risk for breast cancer), and a person's carrier status for certain diseases, including cystic fibrosis. We hope these findings will help Newfoundlanders make informed decisions about their health and care.
It wasn't easy getting these measures passed, but we built our business with a participant-centric approach that puts trust and privacy at the core of everything we do. We want to be a company that makes all of Newfoundland proud. Because when it comes down to it, the people who are taking part in this research are (literally) our family, neighbours and friends. Our success depends on their support.
This June, we started recruiting Newfoundlanders for our research project, called the NL Genome Project (NLGenomeProject.ca), and over 1,200 people have already donated their genetic and personal health information. It was a long road to get here, but it was worth it to do it right. All participants of our research are fully informed of how their data is used and shared, and there is no obligation to take part.
Now the real work begins. With this information, we'll combine it and study it at scale to find different mutations or variations - almost like finding typos in our genetic code - that better explain the link between genetics, health and disease. This information is highly valuable because it can be used to discover new medicines that are more likely to succeed in phase two clinical trials. By leading the early stages of this research and forward-integrating into drug development, Sequence Bio can capture long-term value of new medicines through licensing and other transactions which could generate anywhere from hundreds of thousands to hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue per transaction. <comment><USER2> The name seems very ungoogleable (like "telescope astronomy") but there you are at the top of the results.

This seems exactly the kind of work that's traditionally been done via public research. What's your advantage here? Easier ethics?

I don't see an insider bonus vs a local university, and 23 and me can beat you with scale.

Rare diseases are notoriously difficult to commercialize (if they were common they'd be found already, if they're rare the target market is small)

Did any drugs come out of similarly low diversity regions in the West like the Orkney islands or Tasmania?

How long did that take?

<comment><AUTHOR> Newfoundland isn't just low diversity, it's actually a collection of hundreds of isolates. And, because of our ability to combine genetic data with uniform medical records, we will be able to derive insights from small cohorts (hundreds or thousands) that would take millions to find in admixed populations, if at all.

The rare variants found in isolated populations are not necessarily rare disease targets. For example, the very rare mutations in SCN9A led to a novel class of analgesic (one of the broadest medical indications). However, the combination of new therapeutic modalities like cell and gene therapy, together with a more flexible regulatory and payor environment for rare disease does allow companies to economically pursue treatments and cures for rare conditions.

We believe a private entity is the best way to create value for both participants and industry for two reasons: (1) public projects haven't succeeded in delivering value to participants themselves - the benefits accrue mainly to researchers and secondarily to public health; (2) to really create value from a population cohort you need more than just data - you need to produce valuable insights like drug targets and real world evidence. As a private entity, we can invest to create that value. The ethical requirements are the same for public and private entities, and as mentioned, we spent 5 years helping build the right ethical framework to ensure Newfoundlanders, and the province as a whole, benefit from our research.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Awesome! It seems like you are focused on handling this data responsibly, which is really nice to see. How much drug discovery and development will you undertake yourself vs license to others?

I think there are clear business benefits to developing your own drugs in addition to the benefits of having this sensitive data be shared responsibly.

<comment><AUTHOR> Our goal is to forward integrate into proprietary product development. Along the way, we're working with partners in a shared risk, shared benefit model to help finance and build internal capacity to develop our own clinical pipeline. Our focus on benefiting research participants is something that will always be at the core of everything we do, and even extends to how we evaluate and select partners - sharing that vision is very important to us.

</comment></comment><comment> 52-6F-62 Wow. Congrats on your work so far and I hope it all pans out as you hope!

I would be tickled silly if the place that really makes a name for privacy and genetics research in Canada ends up being NFLD.

All the best!

<comment><AUTHOR> Thank you - the response from participants has been amazing.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Congrats from PEI! Great to see a company from the east coast at YC.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks, neighbour!

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Newfoundland: North America's own Iceland!

<comment><AUTHOR> But, with a bigger and more recent population bottleneck</comment></comment>


Show HN: KnightOS – An open-source OS for calculators - <AUTHOR> http://knightos.org <comment><USER2> I'd never really considered this till now but all those "you must wipe the calculator's memory before the exam" rules are totally owned by installing a sufficiently deceptive custom OS.

Like another commenter, I wrote some of my first programs on a TI-84, amazing that the school encouraged us to buy them and then completely failed to teach anyone how to use any of the features :'D

<comment><USER3> > that the school encouraged us to buy them and then completely failed to > teach anyone how to use any of the features :'D

This is exactly the kind of thing Seymour Papert warned against; just like handing out tablets and then _stopping the students from learning how to unlock them for their own uses_ defeats the whole point.

<comment><USER4> I would say that for future hackers putting a calculator/tablet/whatever in one's hands and then trying to limit it's use just adds to the fun.

<comment><USER3> That's good for finding the natural crypto people who like to break out of such crippleware restrictions, but I can't think of anywhere else in the industry where that is useful selection bias.

<comment><USER5> Senior sysadmins? SW developers above CRUD level?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I dunno, the HP-50g was the pinnacle of calculator OSs for me. RPN, stack based programming, lisp. It really was wonderful.

<comment><USER7> Why is RPN good?

My gripe is:

\- Why should a person doing difficult mathematics also have to struggle with a different notation?

<comment><USER8> Basically, when you're using a calculator, you're calculating, not notating. With RPN, you have a data stack, and everything you do is an action you perform on this stack (like entering a number or doing an operator). You can see your calculation in progress. It can be somewhat natural to put verbs at the end ("3 and 4's sum" for instance), and you don't have to think ahead to figure out whether you'll need parentheses.

If the expression gets to complicated, though, traditional notation is nice because it's easier to verify you calculated what you intended to, I feel.

But let me deconstruct your gripe. A good part of mathematics has been about finding the right notation to express particular ideas. RPN, in my experience, makes it easier to express certain calculations to a machine. But: why is there 'should' and 'have to' in your gripe? No one is forcing anyone to use RPN. You struggle with it to learn the notation, and maybe it makes the "difficult mathematics" easier to deal with. It's not like people make RPN calculators to be intentionally difficult and alien.

Your gripe could equally apply to modern algebraic notation vs. the old latin longhand, or arabic numerals vs. roman. I'm sure it was a struggle for people to learn the new notation in either case.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Wow OP, this is a ton of amazing work (in the GitHub organization). Your blog is great too. Do you have any advice for being so prolific? My butt can't take the sitting and my shoulders can't take the typing posture for the amount of time it seems to take to churn out so much (not being sarcastic in the least).

<comment><USER10> Thanks! I just spend a lot of time working. Maybe you can look into more novel keyboard designs and nicer or novel chairs? I use a mechanical keyboard with cherry MX blue switches and an above-average desk chair.

<comment><USER9> The above-average desk chair has made a huge difference but I've been using a cheapo keyboard for ages now, will have to get on that. Do you use a keyboard tray?

<comment><USER10> No.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I hear Drew's done some great work with this. I'd look at it myself, but flashing my calculator firmware is a bit risky for such an overpriced device.

Thank you, College Board.

<comment><USER10> FWIW it's very difficult to brick a calculator without doing so intentionally. The boot sector has a recovery mode built in for reflashing in case of the worst and the boot sector itself is write protected except in some very exceptional circumstances.

<comment><USER11> Ah, good. Thanks Drew. By the way, I didn't see any actually, you know, _graphing_ applications in the repos. Those exist, right?

<comment><USER12> They don't - KOS currently doesn't have FP support (although the C library[1] does provide FP, it's not too accurate or fast)

[1] [https://www.github.com/KnightOS/libc](https://www.github.com/KnightOS/libc)

<comment><USER11> FP?? I was asking about using the calculator as a calculator.

EDIT: Oh, floating point! Now it makes sense!

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Anyone looking to have a play without finding their TI link cable - works on Andiegraph TI emulator from F Droid

<comment><USER14> This deserves all the upvotes. You saved me a trip to eBay.

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> When I was in school (10+ years ago) we already had elaborate mods for the TI83+ used for cheating our way through the final exams. Also we overclocked the hell out of them. Those were the days.

</comment><comment><USER16> I've still got my trusty TI-85 sitting next to me at the desk here, from twenty years ago!

</comment><comment><USER17> Ah, TI-83! I wrote my first-ever programs on this thing.

The 'getting started with assembly' guide is really good; the whole thing is really inviting to tinker. Excellent work!

</comment><comment><USER7> No install guide in the wiki. Humm.

<comment><USER10> [http://knightos.org/download](http://knightos.org/download)</comment></comment>


Ask HN: How Belarus can keep connected despite internet blackout? - <AUTHOR> Hello hackers. What would be your advice for Belarus protesters to keep connected to each other and the rest of the world.There are some solutions for short-range communication (e.g. https://briarproject.org/), but what are the solutions for the mid-range (e.g. city) and long-range (hundreds of kilometers) communication? I suppose the HAM radio could be used for that or AMPRNet. Any ideas how to provide low-cost, decentralized, communication infrastructure for the time when internet is cut off? <comment><USER4> There is no plausible solution for multitude of reasons listed in other comments.

What I suggest, perhaps as last ditch effort, is look in the opposite direction: attacking the remaining Beltelecom and mobile layer2/3 connectivity in the country.

The only reason the limited networking is still up and running is not some residual generosity of the regime. It is because traditional PSTN and long range special comms services are all routed via IP trunking these days. Disrupting these will also disrupt operations level communication between KGB, police and presidential security units that are squashing the protests.

(Жыве Беларусь!)

<comment><USER5> > There is no plausible solution for multitude of reasons listed in other > comments. > What I suggest, perhaps as last ditch effort, is look in the > opposite direction: attacking the remaining Beltelecom and mobile layer2/3 > connectivity in the country.

Is that really plausible though? I'm sure it's technically doable, but I'm not sure it's realistic or even a good idea if you could pull it off.

Who has the ability _and_ incentive to carry out such an attack? You could hire someone to do a DDoS attack, for example, but who would pay for that?

Let's say you've pulled it off. Have you considered the collateral damage?

Can we be certain that whoever has the capacity to do this will only ever use it "for good"? What's "for good" anyway?

Have you even considered that not all the people who remained connected in the country may be government officials? I don't know about this specific Internet blackout, but quite often other organisations (e.g., international NGOs, consulates/embassies, hotels) remain connected (see this for example: [https://qz.com/africa/1884387/ethiopia-internet-is-back- on-b...](https://qz.com/africa/1884387/ethiopia-internet-is-back-on-but-oromo- tensions-remain/)).

<comment><USER6> > Is that really plausible though? I'm sure it's technically doable, but I'm > not sure it's realistic or even a good idea if you could pull it off.

I'd say a blackout may well pull more people to the street, and open more opportunities for spontaneous openings. The same was in USSR in 1991.

People are actually being attracted by the sound of gunfire, fire, and smoke, if all other decision making inputs are cut off.

Sounds of intense gunfire in a city often result in people being inadvertently "herded" into big crowds, and formation of street-to-street fronts, which result in assailants being surrounded.

Then, when people see enemies surrounded, and trembling in fear, human primal instincts kick in, and crazy things happen. Moscow 1991, Bishkek 2010, Kyiv 2014, Istanbul 2016 all demonstrated that effect.

How powerful can it be? There were historical precedents when such spontaneous crowds went on offensive again fully armed military forces, and won, with Istanbul, and Bishkek events being the most vivid.

In Bishkek, a column of smoke rising from a key government building, along with a comms blackout, was enough to instantaneously gather a crowd of 5000-6000 bystanders, and onlookers who in just 3-4 hours turned into am unstoppable human wave.

It were these complete randoms who then marched against an elite SF battalion, 10+ snipers, fire from 12.7mm, _took 5 RPG shots (!!!)_ , and, in the end, still managed to steamroll that battalion to the last man. Even the relatively tame footage that managed to escape Youtube censorship if still horrifying.

I cannot find the original Euronews footage on the net now, but here is the video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3zUSe2peRE&t=30s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3zUSe2peRE&t=30s) (quite intense, be prepared.) Take a look at the footage starting at 0:30, and give attention to what happens after 1:05.

<comment><USER7> From the "Kyrgyz Revolution" wikipedia page. "the Eurasian Daily Monitor reported on 1 April that, for two weeks, the Kremlin had used the Russian mass media to run a negative campaign against Bakiyev.[20] Russia controls much of the media in Kyrgyzstan.[20] The campaign sought to associate Bakiyev and his son, Maxim Bakiyev, with an allegedly corrupt businessman whose company had worked in a government project. "

<comment><USER6> Yes, not to say that Russia was a beneficiary of all of that was more than an understatement. The end result of that was the closure of USA base there, at a laughable cost for the Kremlin.

It does not still negate the fact that Bakiyev totally deserved that outcome, as an amoral, corrupt, and incompetent president, regardless of whom capitalised on the outcome of his ousting.

USA has a terrible talent betting on political leaders who are almost certain to lose power.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> I'm surprised Scuttlebutt [1][2] hasn't gotten a mention.

It allows you to create your own social media feed with messages, responses and media completely offline. You then gossip that feed to anyone you want, for example via the local (WiFi) network or even by USB stick. Long range communication is done by car or by train.

There are servers (pubs) that can be used for more real-time communication. Or to make the information available on the internet after it has been sneaked out of Belarus. The main pubs have a dedicated, friendly and active community. [3]

[1] [https://scuttlebutt.nz](https://scuttlebutt.nz)

[2] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xjphvcd8Sw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xjphvcd8Sw)

[3] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbzGpKffQuM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbzGpKffQuM)

<comment><USER9> One really dangerous thing about it is that once you send something it just won't disappear.

What happens on the Internet stays on the Internet and all that, but no reason to write everything in stone - especially in times and places where governments thinks it is a good idea to cut Internet.

<comment><USER10> >One really dangerous thing about it is that once you send something it just won't disappear.

That thing is called Internet..Information never goes away, not even in the real world.

<comment><USER11> It's not that black and white. Some communicators for example delete messages after a specified time and don't archive by default. It's not perfect, and it's not supposed to be. But it still raises the bar a bit - if your peer is not compromised, you can at least hope the history goes away.

Same could be done with "permanent" message by rotating shared encryption keys and discarding old ones for example, so you can build something with better privacy on top.

<comment><USER10> >It's not that black and white. Some communicators for example delete messages after a specified time and don't archive by default. It's not perfect, and it's not supposed to be

If something is not secure you can forget it by default, there is NO information system than can securely delete and protect it's delivered end user information, no DRM no Snapchat nothing, the consumed and delivered message can always be seen.

<comment><USER11> First, that's why I wrote "hope" and mentioned it's not perfect. But "the consumed and delivered message can always be seen" is just incorrect. _IF_ both sides destroy either the message or the encryption keys for it, then no, it can't be seen. (Just the metadata about it being sent)

<comment><USER10> > is just incorrect.

Your thinking is too narrow, i just make a screenshot of your message, or filming your Video from the Screen, that's what i mean by 'consumed', but yes if both party's delete the message normal encryption is enough even 'just' with forward secrecy, but the metadata is often much more interesting (even the NSA said that).

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> All of these censorship resistant communication projects tend to assume that the network needs to be low latency, always connected, etc. It's far easier to build a robust network if you relax that assumption, and cheap hard drives + e2e encryption mean you ought to be able to route a large volume of private p2p messaging / email in addition to any curated content that's distributed more widely.

[https://boingboing.net/2018/05/03/inside-cubas-massive- weekl...](https://boingboing.net/2018/05/03/inside-cubas-massive-weekly.html) [https://www.wired.com/2017/07/inside-cubas-diy-internet- revo...](https://www.wired.com/2017/07/inside-cubas-diy-internet-revolution/) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Paquete_Semanal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Paquete_Semanal)

<comment><USER5> Agreed 100%. That's precisely how Relaynet works (hence the name): [https://relaynet.network/](https://relaynet.network/)

<comment><USER13> I read the whole page and didn't find any information how it is supposed to actually work. The page compares Relaynet with Starlink and Ballons, but then it doesn't say how Relaynet work.

<comment><USER5> Hey Urza. There's a page and a corresponding video for each type of stakeholder: end users, service providers and couriers (who step in to restore connectivity with a secure sneakernet). Those are quite high-level on purpose.

If you're interested in the cryptographic and networking details, the specs is probably what you want. At least the introduction to the core spec: [https://specs.relaynet.network/RS-000](https://specs.relaynet.network/RS-000)

<comment><USER13> Hi, unfortunately I am not much wiser from the specs. It describes higher level network/app protocols, no mention on the underlying mechanism of communication. Can you give me example of the hardware on which it is supposed to run and how it would work in Belarus?

<comment><USER5> Hi Urza,

(Apologies for the late reply. I'm new around here and I didn't remember that HN won't send me an email notifications for replies to my comments.)

Before getting into Relaynet, let's consider how Internet apps work: They have a client and a server, and the client is responsible for producing _and_ delivering its own data. That means that the server must be reachable _and_ ready to respond to each request, at the exact time each takes place. This architecture (called Remote Procedure Call, RPC) is fine when the Internet is available, but it breaks when the Internet is cut off and it's also incompatible with alternative transports because they add a significant latency.

By contrast, Relaynet apps use a radically different architecture: Asynchronous messaging. Instead of clients/servers, apps have "endpoints"; and instead of requests/responses, endpoints exchange "messages". Endpoints _delegate_ the delivery of such messages to one or more brokers, which we call "gateways" in Relaynet. This way, the sender and receiver don't have to be reachable and ready at the same time, because the gateways will keep a copy of each message until it reaches its final destination. Consequently, when the Internet is available, gateways will use it and messages would be delivered instantly, but when the Internet is cut off, gateways will switch to a _secure_ sneakernet ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sneakernet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sneakernet)). Additionally, endpoint messages (called "parcels" in Relaynet) are end-to-end encrypted and signed, so gateways can't tamper with them or see what's inside.

Behind the scenes, Relaynet apps communicate over the Internet/sneakernets via two gateways: A private gateway (a standalone app on the user's device) and a public gateway (a server-side app). Say Twitter supports Relaynet and exposes an endpoint at [https://api.twitter.com/relaynet](https://api.twitter.com/relaynet): When you post a tweet, your Twitter app will encapsulate it in a parcel bound for [https://api.twitter.com/relaynet](https://api.twitter.com/relaynet), but instead of delivering the parcel by itself, it'd send it to its local private gateway, which will in turn send it to its public gateway, and which will finally deliver it to Twitter's endpoint. Now consider the case where the Twitter server wants to send you data: It'd post the data to your public gateway (e.g., [https://eu.relaycorp.tech](https://eu.relaycorp.tech)), which would in turn send to your private gateway, which will finally send it to the endpoint in your local Twitter app; in this direction, the parcel is bound for an opaque address derived from the public key of the endpoint (analogous to Bitcoin addresses).

Now, when the Internet is cut off, your two gateways get disconnected. That's when couriers ([https://relaynet.network/couriers](https://relaynet.network/couriers)) would step in and provide a secure sneakernet. Couriers will _physically_ transport parcels between a place disconnected from the Internet and one connected to it. However, since parcels contain the address of the recipient, and that address would identify the service when it's bound for an Internet host (e.g., [https://api.twitter.com/relaynet](https://api.twitter.com/relaynet)), gateways will encapsulate those parcels in a new layer of end-to-end encryption -- You can think of it as an "offline TLS". So couriers (or anyone who intercepts them) won't be able to see or change the parcels being transported.

As you may have anticipated by now, for a preexisting, Internet-based service to work on Relaynet, its developer has to make client- and server-side changes to their software. Alternatively, if the service offers an API, a third party could build a Relaynet integration (that's what I did in the Relaynet proof of concept with Twitter: [https://twitter.com/relaynet_/status/1089211336171679745](https://twitter.com/relaynet_/status/1089211336171679745)). Also, if you're building a service from scratch, you could build a fully decentralised one that doesn't need any servers (see: [https://relaynet.network/service-providers](https://relaynet.network/service- providers))

Relaynet won't need any new/special hardware: Private gateways will support Android 5+/Windows/Linux (macOS and iOS support is on the roadmap), so you can use Relaynet as long as your device runs on one of those platforms.

I highly recommend watching this 12-minute video to learn more about how couriers establish this connectivity and also to see a demo of the software couriers will use: [https://youtu.be/UXuLz3q_6bo](https://youtu.be/UXuLz3q_6bo).

How could this have worked in Belarus? Let's first assume that the implementation of Relaynet is complete and at least one service (e.g., Twitter) is now compatible with it. Based on what I know about the situation ([https://netblocks.org/reports/internet-disruption-hits- belar...](https://netblocks.org/reports/internet-disruption-hits-belarus-on- election-day-YAE2jKB3)), this could've been done:

\- First of all, people should've ideally installed Relaynet and the Relaynet- compatible app(s) they wish to use before the election (whilst the Internet is available). Generally, people living under repressive regimes should aim to have Relaynet installed before contentious events like elections. Starting to use Relaynet without the Internet is possible but fiddly ([https://github.com/relaycorp/relayverse/issues/1](https://github.com/relaycorp/relayverse/issues/1)).

\- Similarly, couriers should've (ideally) planned their routes in advance, especially if they'll be collaborating with other couriers or if they plan to use Latvian/Lithuanian/Polish mobile Internet operators near their borders (without actually crossing the border necessarily). Russian and Ukrainian operators could potentially work too. Couriers would've also identified places likely to remain connected to the Internet in the big cities (Minsk and Barysaw seem to have been remained connected to some extend, although a lot of that would've been government agencies: [https://twitter.com/netblocks/status/1293522490355064839](https://twitter.com/netblocks/status/1293522490355064839)).

\- When the Internet was cut off, couriers would've stepped in by doing their route: Stopping at one or more locations without access to the Internet, and eventually getting to the nearest place with access to the Internet (somewhere in Minsk/Barysaw or near the border with another country).

\- Each courier is free to charge their users if they want to (which would be reasonable, considering the risk and work they have to do), but we're not supporting that in any way in the software. That would be entirely between the courier and the user.

PS: All of this complexity is abstracted away from the end user. As far as they're concerned, all they need to do is install the private gateway and it'll default to a public gateway behind the scenes. Also, we won't be using this terminology with end users: The private gateway will simply be called the "Relaynet app".

<comment><USER14> Nice. Thanks. Sounds like it is built on similar principles to scuttlebutt.

When would relay-net be ready?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> During the arab spring, people in Tunisia managed to communicate with outside world thanks to proxies set by outside crackers on tunisian governement's servers. Turns out that when tyrants want to cut their people out of the internet, they still want access themselves.

If crackers around the world want to actually be useful, now is the time.

</comment><comment><USER16> This duscussion is cute, but but situation in belarus is deteriorating and people are being beaten and tortured in jail. Open this with google translate yo get an idea: [https://news.tut.by/society/696375.html](https://news.tut.by/society/696375.html)

I would say that if you want to help, first reach out to your representative / government and put pressure on them to put pressure on belarus. It's a small country that depends on trade with the free world.

Secondly, we need a crowdfunder to support people who've suffered grevious bodily harm at the hands of this regime.

<comment><USER17> > the free world

Ah the famous free world where our social media posts are heavily censored, where lock-down was / is mandatory for a lot of us, and where protesting can cost you an eye (at least 20 people lost an eye last year in France's Gillets Jaunes protests).

Yes we still have it better than the Belorussians but free our world is certainly not.

<comment><USER16> Would you be content with calling it 'somewhat democratic world'?

<comment><USER17> Depends what you mean by democratic. If you mean people can vote, then yes. But if it means ruled by the people then I only see elites at the top.

I'm disillusioned with the western narrative about freedom. We can and should do much better than the oligarchies we actually live in.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think the rest of the world has it better than us, but we're certainly not the paradise we pretend to be.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> For large gatherings you can have Bluetooth connected mesh networks. There are apps that already implement this out of the box like Bridgefy or Briar.

You can have a network of consumer radio walkie talkies with privacy codes, each node spread with a range of about 20km, depending on the weather and terrain. But this is would need dedicated hardware which I assume is not easily sourced in the current restricted environment.

Edit: Maybe if you setup a network of walkie talkies on rooftops you could probably maximize the node spread if are able to keep line of sight across each node.

<comment><USER19> Are there any documents describing the actual user experiences of using Bridgefy or Briar in a real life scenario. They seem like cool tools using interesting technology but I am not convinced that they work well in practice and it is difficult to find much information about where they have been used successfully.

<comment><USER20> Not a document but Hong Kong protesters use it [https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-49565587](https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-49565587)

<comment><USER19> This article only states that the app had been downloaded more during the protests. Reviews in the app store suggest it doesn't work reliably.

<comment><USER18> For full-disclosure I have no first hand experience with Bridgefy or Briar, I suggested the former because it seemed like an alternative to _Firechat_ (which apparently is no longer available).

Having said that, irrespective of the Application layer, all BT based mesh networks are inherently fragile.

There are large performance variations accross BT chipsets (old/new and different manufacturers) and externals like BT firmware, OS variations, battery level, RF blocking/reflecting structures nearby, Law enforcement jammers, the number of nodes available (the more nodes in a narrow area the more fault tolerant it is), all of these factors affect the performance of such a network.

The point is, OP is asking for help to scope out what are the options. None of them are great, but the best we can do is to bring forward the known options and hope that those struggling in this situation are able to implement whatever they need to remain safe.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> If you can dial up, Dutch ISP XS4all has setup a free gateway: [https://twitter.com/xs4all/status/1293153863030243328](https://twitter.com/xs4all/status/1293153863030243328)

</comment><comment><USER13> [https://disaster.radio/](https://disaster.radio/)

disaster.radio is an off-grid, solar-powered, long-range mesh network built on free, open source software and affordable, open hardware.

Designed to be open, distributed, and decentralized, disaster.radio is currently in the prototype/development phase.

<comment><USER22> this is only for short messages via Lora, 40 chars at a time last time I tried.

<comment><USER23> Still good for shorthand, locations, coordinating communication by other means, and the like.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I think it depends on what exactly you need before, during and/or after the protest.

Generally, I think Briar is your best bet for the _organisers_ of the protest, since it's meant to communicate a group of people, but not broadcast data to anyone (inc. strangers). It can help you before, during and after the protest. However, you'll need a connection to the Internet to synchronise over what you describe as mid- and long-ranges (it'd use Tor in that case).

One thing to note is that when a repressive regime cuts off the Internet, it never gets to 100% of the affected population. At a minimum, certain government institutions will remain connected, but often also international organisations and hotels. Of course, in practice, finding which places remain connected to the Internet will be hard, but these are some of the places you could try. Also, if you have a land border and a SIM from the neighbour country, you'll generally get mobile access near the border.

During the protest, I think the Qual.net project is worth considering, although I must admit I haven't tried it myself.

 _Please_ , do not use FireChat or Bridgefy. They're pretty insecure: Data is neither encrypted or signed.

Shameless plug:

I'm leading the Relaynet project ([https://relaynet.network/](https://relaynet.network/)), a technology to restore connectivity when the Internet is totally cut off. Relaynet-compatible apps will use the Internet seamlessly when it's available, but they'll switch to a fallback medium (such as a sneakernet) when the Internet is cut off. No additional hardware required.

Relaynet's proof of concept made it possible to post and receive tweets without the Internet and we're currently funded by the Open Technology Fund. The protocol suite has been independently audited. The Android implementation will be ready by the end of the summer (and it'll also be audited).

Although we're focusing on connecting the general public, the security and privacy guarantees it offers should also be adequate for protesters (subject to the security/privacy guarantees of the Relaynet apps they use). Consequently, the initial version of Relaynet should come in handy before and after protests, and once we add support for Bluetooth-based meshnets (aka "scatternets"), it should also support protesters during a protest.

</comment><comment><USER24> During China's Xinjiang crackdown people use old fashioned dialup modems and 56kbps is better than 0kbps.

I think if you can still make cross border International phone calls you can setup modem on both sides and create a end-to-end network.

<comment><USER25> I imagine it would be relatively easy to detect that kind of activity.

Maybe some kind of ad hoc mobile/mesh network stands a better chance, though that too is detectable and jammable.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> You need to be careful with long range radio solutions. Radio waves sources are very easy to locate with cheap equipment. Wifi/Bluetooth is perhaps better since it's already everywhere, but the range isn't good.

<comment><USER27> Watch out, Wifi and Bluetooth and any radio source can be located (with direction finding, Time Difference on Arrival, ...).

It's sometime a bit more difficult: with spread spectrum technologies for example, widely used wireless technologies that work well in dense usage. It works also on cellular networks (2G, 3G, 4G, 5G).

Just so people don't get a false sense of security with some solutions.

</comment></comment><comment> adam-p Psiphon (disclosure: where I work) largely kept Belarusians online: [https://psix.ca/d/nyi8gE6Zk/regional-overview?orgId=2&var- re...](https://psix.ca/d/nyi8gE6Zk/regional-overview?orgId=2&var- region=BY&from=1596811582971&to=1597243582971) (Note that the 0 values before the blocking aren't really zero -- they're just below the threshold that we publicize. And connections aren't users, but... it's still a lot of people.)

There's a smattering of third parties confirming this, like: [https://beincrypto.com/psiphon-connects-beincrypto- journalis...](https://beincrypto.com/psiphon-connects-beincrypto-journalists- stranded-in-belarus/)

<comment><USER28> Thank you for your work for us. The app behaves really well these days here!

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> Two-way satellite modems were banned long ago in Belarus, so there is not much equipment on hands.

Mesh / opportunistic network solutions are great in theory, but require the installation of special software, which is difficult to coordinate on large scale. Also, this is an adversarial environment. We need to assume that every new network will be infiltrated by pro-government forces.

Only mobile internet was affected so far, so for now the most effective response was encouraging people to remove their WiFi passwords.

</comment><comment><USER30> For everyone talking about solutions that involve short-range mesh networking: Belarus is about 600km across and the capital Minsk is about 130km from the border with the nearest free country, Lithuania.

For everyone talking about solutions that involve deploying additional hardware: who's going to pay for it and how are you going to get it into Belarus?

<comment><USER31> A large part of the reason for the blackout is to prevent people from organising protests. Mesh networks are perfect for that kind of thing, as generally you only need to communicate with people in the same city.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> In addition to short-range bluetooth app like Briar.

There exist long range communication : Meshtastic, with $20 devices you can send messages with kilometers range.

What would be ideal is for Briar to embrace the "Bluetooth to LoRa node".

We can extend Briar Bluetooth network by adding Bluetooth to LoRa node that can connect multiple bluetooth mesh networks together.

<comment><USER33> LoRa cannot handle much data at all. At the lowest data rate you're talking 51 bytes taking 400ms to transmit. Its also far better at uplink traffic than downlink, meaning 2 way communication is very, very, very limited.

<comment><USER34> Yeah. Meshtastic in default (very long range) config has practical limits of ~30 nodes/users on a channel and can only broadcast old-school SMS style messages across the mesh.

It's super fun to play with. But it isn't gonna "save democracy by circumventing nations-state internet shutdowns"

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> This is an important area in which I feel development has been disappointing, mainly because the commercial value isn't there. There are a few off-grid mesh dongle products that have been released in the past few years. Unfortunately, they're all crazy expensive.

Examples: [https://gotenna.com/](https://gotenna.com/)

[https://beartooth.com/](https://beartooth.com/)

[https://www.gotoky.com/](https://www.gotoky.com/)

[https://fogo.io/](https://fogo.io/)

They all rely on your phone and themselves cost more than a whole low-end phone! I am really confused as to why meshing requires much additional hardware that isn't already in a phone.

<comment><USER16> Because we have no access or control over the actual phoone part of the phone - the 4G/ cellular transmitter.

<comment><USER35> But you do have control over the wifi and bluetooth radios, which should be fine in an urban setting or a protest.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> I used to work for a Belarusian company (outside of Belarus). From what my ex- colleagues told me, they have very little contact with the people in Minsk. There's the occasional email or connected people on MS Teams. Not sure if that's caused by people protesting or internet shutdown/filtering for offices as well.

I also asked some Belarusian friends how they keep getting information from there. They said they have intermittent access to Telegram but it works better by using proxies. Some of the news channels on Telegram are managed by people outside the country who receive the information via text message. Not sure what type of block was in place (cellular data?).

Edit: Another Belarusian friend said he's able to communicate again with people back home after 3 days of quasi constant blackout.

<comment><USER37> I have contacts in Belarus. They were completely offline for 3 days since Sunday. Only today (12-Aug-2020 08:00 UTC approx) it seems the situation got back to normal and I've heard from them.

People are just terrified now and all they want is peace. They know that continuing protests is likely to result in a bloodbath and are understandably afraid of that.

<comment><USER38> I would disagree with your last statement.

I have a lot of friends from Belarus, and at least from IT sector, they are really eager to continue protests simply cause they are scarred what can happen if current government will stay

<comment><USER37> At this point, it's very difficult to know if the people who want protests to stop (even if they hate their government) are more numerous than the people who want the protests to continue and grow until the government can be replaced (with, from what I know in Belarus, is extremely unlikely - <USER2> that there's zero opposition prepared to take over the Government). But at least for now, things seem to be calming down instead of escalating.

<comment><USER39> Russia will take over or get involved. Do not kid yourself that they won't. Belarus has a direct border to Russia. They'll probably use protests to install a pro Kremlin government just like they did in Ukraine before Euromaidan sent him fleeing to Russia.

<comment><USER40> They are effectively one country already.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_State](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_State)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> A YC company is (was?) working on creating mesh communication network from just mobile devices (not sure if they can be deployed right away independent of Internet connectivity): [https://volkfi.com/](https://volkfi.com/)

There are companies that sell software-defined radio products to help deploy volunteer-run radio networks, but those may be easy to jam and/or illegal: [https://limemicro.com/products/boards/limesdr/](https://limemicro.com/products/boards/limesdr/)

Not sure how far srsLTE ([https://www.srslte.com/](https://www.srslte.com/)) can go here without requiring special equipment and Internet connectivity (someone well-versed can perhaps comment on its feasibility as a standalone backhaul): [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18569961](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18569961)

Walkie-talkies work nicely for comms but not secure, should work well enough for coded messages; however.

I stumbled upon now-defunct [https://opentech.fund](https://opentech.fund) backed [https://www.qaul.net](https://www.qaul.net) a few days back, developed in response to censorship in MENA, that I personally like: They maintain a mapping of devices (similar to BitTorrent) over Wifi P2P and/or Bluetooth to create a decentralised secure routing network. No extra hardware needed.

</comment><comment> Pick-A-Hill2019 A bit late to hop on flea-bay and get the relevant parts but certainly an interesting trick posted a while back on HN entitled "Brazilian satellite hackers use high-performance antennas and homebrew gear to turn U.S. Navy satellites into their personal CB radios." [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=932997](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=932997) (Original Wired link [https://www.wired.com/2009/04/fleetcom/](https://www.wired.com/2009/04/fleetcom/) )

A bit earlier today there was also a HN post about a re-play attack on VoLTE encryption [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24129977](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24129977)

For information distribution look in to I2P as a means of caching popular News sites. Local password free wi-fi access points (but obviously only for those that can can risk a knock on the door). Power-Over-Ethernet Access Points are useful.

Good luck to all.

</comment><comment><USER41> Seems like we need starlink wifi hotspots ... Imagine dropping those in instead of leaflets.

<comment><USER42> It would be probably easily trackable by army and police. Unless you propose setting them in random places anonymously or move often (setup the antenna on the car)

</comment></comment><comment><USER43> How about [1] " _Power-line Networking_ ". It's basically the act of using A/C power-lines for a computer network.

They work okay in home networks, but due to the noise of the active A/C power- line they don't scale that far.

Perhaps they could work in long distances at low bit-rates with high redundancy error-correction to account for the noise. Sending email and text messages...

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power- line_communication](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-line_communication)

</comment><comment><USER44> In Hongkong everyone with an iPhone enabled airdrop and shared "posters" with information: [https://qz.com/1660460/hong-kong-protesters-use-airdrop- to-b...](https://qz.com/1660460/hong-kong-protesters-use-airdrop-to-breach- chinas-firewall/)

Everyone should have an app like Canva, to easily add+edit text on images. This way people can communicate without any new technology.

</comment><comment><USER45> Maybe with Bridgefy?

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20861948](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20861948)

</comment><comment><USER46> Berty Tech is working on an offline first protocol, to provide privacy, censorship resistance with an resilient mesh network. Full open source of course, by a dedicated NGO based in France. Using BLE, gomobile, ipfs...

Feel free to join the community, and contribute, www.berty.tech [https://github.com/berty](https://github.com/berty)

Cheers peers!

</comment><comment><USER47> To get videos and articles to the media, put redundant copies on USB thumb drives and hide them in different places in the city. Tell different reporters different locations to pick up the drives. Do not tell any single news agency more than one location in the event they are compromised. Ensure you are not seen hiding them. Thumb USB drives are very cheap and disposable.

To stay connected to each other, set up your own self hosted email servers. Email is old but is well designed for this. It is also easier to set up than IRC and does not depend on real time communication. Mail servers will queue messages and retry periodically. Look for "HOW-TO: Dovecot Postfix". Set up self hosted mail servers inside your country and configure them to relay to external sites using HAM, Satellite, whatever you can get your hands on. Even better, see if you can find obscure forms of internet that have not been blocked. Dial-up for example. It isn't fast, but will relay emails and small attachments just fine. Mail servers will queue messages and retry periodically. Adjust attachment limits on your email servers and let your friends know what that limit is. Use your own domains. Ensure that you configure your mail servers to enforce TLS, or at least enforce it for domains that you know use TLS. Most important, increase the retention time of the mail spool so that the server will keep trying to send messages for a month instead of a week. Get multiple accounts on mail servers hosted in other countries that your mail server can authenticated and relay through. This eliminates the need for things like FCrDNS, DMARC, etc... on your server. A dial-up will do just fine. Read up on how to use postfix header checks to sanitized email headers so that your users IP addresses are not exposed.

One advantage of self hosted email servers is that anyone inside your country that can reach the server can communicate directly to each other through that server. Nothing has to leave the country and can not be censored. Be sure to encrypt the mail and spool folders.

For trusted circles of friends, especially those responsible for maintaining servers, ensure they create and share PGP keys. There are how-to's for this as well. Create code phrases that mean different things, so that you can tell others if you have been compromised.

</comment><comment><USER48> Obviously there is a lot of P2P technology out there, for instance Freenet, Bittorrent, Bitcoin and GPG as well as solutions for the lower network layers like HAM radio based communication. Maybe everybody should start using it also for normal matters because that's what these technologies have actually been invented for and not just for politically controversial or actually illegal things. As a nice side-effect it's kind of fun to dive into new technologies and new things can be built that are easier to use, like Signal or Telegram

</comment><comment><USER16> Am i right in understanding that people can still oing each-other in the country, they just cant reach the outside world? Do p2p applications like torrents work in this environment?

</comment><comment><USER49> I have no idea how it would work out in practise given the requirement of physical distribution, but I've always thought of plain pencil and paper among the most democratic of media. It could work for organising people, but maybe not as well for casual banter (which – now that I think about it – might be the more important part.)

<comment><USER30> Lots of revolutions come with "zines" or pamphlets, it's a very traditional technique, but it's also very risky when the police are in the streets to physically intercept your physical messages.

</comment></comment><comment><USER50> Why not get some RG 6 or RG59 and use it to deploy MoCa networks to wireless transmitters? Illicit coax would be difficult to distinguish from legit coax and you could do runs of several hundred feet between buildings. If someone knows what they're looking for they'll be on to you but the equipment is not very big.

</comment><comment><USER51> The LibreRouter.org is an open source software and hardware wireless router for geek-free mesh community networks, that can be used by the whole population to deploy any size of telecom infrastructure for their own use, and that can't be interrupted by anyone in particular.

</comment><comment><USER52> [https://twitter.com/delta_chat/status/1293456217248079872?s=...](https://twitter.com/delta_chat/status/1293456217248079872?s=20)

</comment><comment><USER53> Satellite internet options would seem to be the most effective solution long term...short term though? I have no idea.

</comment><comment><USER54> This is possibly going to be another Ukraine - a civil war. Who wants that? Certainly not the Belarusian people.

<comment><USER55> > Certainly not the Belarusian people.

How certain are you?

</comment></comment><comment><USER56> Loon flight systems create a network in the stratosphere similar to terrestrial based cell towers. The difference is on the ground, cell towers are fixed and transmit their signals to moving cell phones. With Loon's solution, both the cell towers and the people are moving... More here: [https://loon.com](https://loon.com)

<comment><USER5> But Loon requires the authorisation of the local government.

</comment></comment><comment><USER57> The penny has just dropped with me. This scenario is exactly where Starlink[1] can shine (no pun intended). Find a way to get uplink routers into the locked down country and it would be impossible for totalitarian governments to block internet access completely.

\--

[1] [https://www.starlink.com/](https://www.starlink.com/)

<comment><USER57> What did I say wrong? Care to explain the down-votes?

<comment><USER24> Because it doesn't work yet? Maybe it's useful in the future in other places.

<comment><USER57> Ah good point. My bad.

<comment><USER58> Just curious, is there a way governments could somehow block access to those satellites or force the companies behind them to deny access for people of their country?

<comment><USER16> See above - two-way satellite equipment is illegal in belarus. There will be no legal way to buy an access point, and owning it risks you jail time. So most people wont have one.

Maybe some lone dude in the remote are can smuggle it in and keep it hidden, but if we are talking about mass movements, that terminal won't be mich use

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER59> Maybe scuttlebutt could work, if the gossiping works across mesh wifis.

</comment><comment><USER60> Satellite internet, ham radio, exfiltration from Belarus

</comment><comment><USER61> Cuba does it with flash drives passed around.

</comment><comment><USER62> I've seen ham radio network AREDN

</comment><comment><USER63> Indian government shutsdown internet after removal of article 370

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/indias- int...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/indias-internet- shutdown-in-kashmir-is-now-the-longest-ever-in-a- democracy/2019/12/15/bb0693ea-1dfc-11ea-977a-15a6710ed6da_story.html)

<comment><USER64> (1) This is not related to current discussion.

(2) 2G internet was available

(3) 4G service is restored now. [https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/4g-internet- to-be-allowed-on...](https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/4g-internet-to-be- allowed-on-trial-basis-in-1-district-each-in-jammu-kashmir-valley-from- august-16-centre-to-supreme-court-2277543)

</comment></comment><comment><USER65> Why and how is the internet cut off?

You could send an email/tweet to SpaceX and ask to be part of the Starlink beta program. They'd have to be granted a license for your country first, however.

<comment><AUTHOR> Why - I suppose that government want to get tactical advantage over protesters by limiting information flow and making protest coordination more difficult.

How - both deep packet inspection + filtering and primitive solution - <USER3> communication services (mobile and broadband) stop functioning. Such things happen already in the past in Turkey, Egipt, Iran.

<comment><USER65> Depending on the type of filtering you could try to tunnel data across UDP (DNS?) or ICMP packets or configure hosts on both ends to ignore TCP RESET packets.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> My advice to Belarus protesters would be : don't protest. You are the useful idiots of some foreign powers that want to weaken Russia by making Belarus the same failed state as Ukraine.

Look at what happened to Ukraine a few years ago and look at the state where it's at now. Do you really want that for your country ?</comment>


Introducing Runway, a distributed systems design tool - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/salesforce-open-source/runway-intro-dc0d9578e248#.snpyhtmki <comment><USER2> This is very interesting. It seems like a much more user-friendly version of TLA+. Wonder what Lamport thinks about it :)

I think the next logical feature would be to have Runway compile a model- checked specification to an actual C++/Java/go/python implementation, using something like Thrift or CapnProto RPC codegen. There has been some work on doing similar spec->implementation compilation from Coq to erlang [0] but the author hit a lot of obstacles.

[0] - [http://christophermeiklejohn.com/coq/erlang/2013/11/19/verif...](http://christophermeiklejohn.com/coq/erlang/2013/11/19/verified- vector-clocks-an-experience-report-part-2.html)

<comment><USER3> That is exactly the effort done in our group before (from TLA+ to real C++ implementation) - the challenge is that the gap between specification and the implementation is large in terms of both implementation details and language expressiveness. As a complementary approach, we have come up libraries for distributed system development with built-in implementation-level model checking support. You may check out [https://github.com/Microsoft/rDSN](https://github.com/Microsoft/rDSN) for details.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Very happy to see more tooling being created for distributed systems, it is much needed. Will have to check out the talk, too.

We've also released a tool for testing distributed systems, [https://github.com/gundb/panic-server](https://github.com/gundb/panic-server) . It integrates with your existing tests (like mocha and others), and even reports/throws bugs back from the remote machines you're testing across.

</comment><comment><USER5> > I've explored many techniques to help with distributed systems design,

> including formal specification, model checking, formal and informal

> proofs, simulation, and visualization. I've found all of these things

> valuable to learn about, and I think some of them are entirely practical

> to use. However, standard practice in industry is to use none of them.

This is what surprised me most when I started learning about formal specifications. I had been developing distributed systems for years armed with nothing but algorithms, papers, and my own sloppy thinking. I had worked alongside some very smart, senior people who never brought out any kind of formal specification.

It wasn't until I met a researcher developing his own specification method that I heard about such tools.

And I'm super-glad I jumped in.

I'm happy to see more tools entering the space. My feeling is that they are becoming sophisticated enough that we will be able to see people adopting them in the wider industry, even in open-source software. I believe they should be the state of the art. I also think that any distributed system should be published with a formal specification, if not proof, before being accepted into wider adoption by industry.

 _update_ formatting

</comment><comment><USER6> Seems a lot more accessible than TLA+. I have tried to get started with TLA+ a few times and never been able to get going so hopefully this yields better results.

<comment><USER7> Did you try the hyperbook tutorial? I found it significantly easier (and better documented) than learning almost any new programming language. The main concept -- that of the action -- is confusing at first, but once you understand it (which can be gradual), there's really nothing more to learn...

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> If you like this, you might also like [http://www.win.tue.nl/mcrl2/release/user_manual/index.html](http://www.win.tue.nl/mcrl2/release/user_manual/index.html)

</comment><comment><USER9> This tool seems to be equally useful for modeling any complex software at the concept level. Is there any thing that would prevent this from being used in non-distributed systems scenarios?</comment>


Windows 10, the stealth OS - <AUTHOR> http://www.computerworld.com/article/2984729/microsoft-windows/windows-10-the-stealth-os.html?nsdr=true <comment><USER2> So next year when Apple does this it will be billed as "innovative! A breath of fresh air, the greatest thing since sliced bread!" then people will wonder why we waited decades for OS developers to preload the latest and greatest OS. Making the install seemless, fast and a wonderfully painless experience for the user. Will make it to the front page of the New York Times as the biggest innovation of 2016.

<comment><AUTHOR> I'd hope they would have learned their lesson after last year's U2 album debacle.</comment></comment>


Gmail Tracking All Links - <AUTHOR> I've noticed just recently that any link you click from a gmail message first goes to a google URL and then the redirect happens to the actual website.
Here's a ticket opened in 2019 regarding this on Android, but this also happens in the web version of gmail:
https://support.google.com/mail/thread/10786964?hl=en <comment><USER2> Not seeing this with my Gmail account. It's a paid account, though. Maybe that's the price for good, free email.

<comment><USER3> It does seem to behave differently for paid. For example, it doesn't give you automated suggestions on what to respond, which hints that it might not be reading your mail.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Not sure about gmail, but its been this way for awhile with gchat and i'd presume gmail too.

</comment><comment><USER5> I think it's less for tracking than for trying to combat viruses and phishing attempts. Having the spool data and writing the JavaScript mail client app makes link-based tracking redundant.</comment>


Get Your Book, Make It Free - <AUTHOR> http://www.realtimerendering.com/blog/get-your-book-make-it-free/ <comment><USER2> Suggestion: Release your book as an EPUB rather than a PDF. PDF has the reputation of being view-able "everywhere", but it's not exactly _pleasant_ to read on anything other than a computer screen or a large tablet.

EPUB's, however, can dynamically reflow the text and resize the font to be readable on your phone, your Kindle, your PC, etc. And they're far easier to cleanly convert to other formats (even PDF, if that's your only option) than the reverse direction.

<comment><USER3> This. I recently subscribed specifically to some Google website, including all my work related info, to get an ebook on the state of Kubernetes. I was looking forward to it... And then they send me a PDF which is completely unreadable on my Kindle and I'm not going to read a whole book on my laptop. I really hate it when people call PDFs ebooks. Sorry :)

<comment><USER4> It really depends. Kindles are great if you're flowing a bunch of text. They can work fine with more graphics (although you're mostly back to using a tablet again) but the e-version really needs to be properly designed for it-- e.g. avoiding sidebars and that sort of thing. Just a low-effort conversion can look pretty awful.

<comment><USER5> I have to disagree that they work fine with graphics, especially in low light conditions. It's downright terrible in my opinion. I have a kindle version of Calculus: Better Explained, and it's unreadable on my Paperwhite. I have to resort to the kindle app on a tablet or PC.

<comment><USER4> I actually agree with you. I was being sloppy. Kindle _format_ can work fine with photos/graphics on a tablet and even a smartphone. (I've actually come around to mostly liking eguidebooks because they're right on my phone and I don't need to xerox the relevant pages to carry around.) But, much as I like my Paperwhite, it's really just for reading text.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> I changed my book from 10$ to free.

After 300 sales I decided it was better to let hundreds of thousands learn how to save money, than 300.

My only regret is there is no positive feedback.

With a sale, I get an email and paid. With a book view, I barely get analytics.

I suppose my request as an author, give feedback. At least let me know what you like or didn't like.

<comment><USER7> Have you thought about asking for a symbolic price like $1?

<comment><USER8> In my experience, even just $1 would have a significant chilling effect. And making the book available for free has the benefit of helping those who don't have credit cards (due to e.g. geography, socioeconomics or age).

A nice alternative can be a "pay what you want"approach, with a recommended amount and an option to pay nothing.

<comment><USER9> I would imagine the credit card usage forms the majority of the chilling effect. Personally, I find it a lot more annoying to faff around with using the credit card to pay for something (even when I consider the cost negligible) than to just download it.

<comment><USER7> On a second thought, this is what happens to me, too.

Before I pay a $1 and have to log in to PayPal or whatever, I will rather not pay anything, although I value the content.

Interesting effect.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I'd urge writers to release in as many formats as possible. Personally, I prefer reading PDFs on my iPad because the typography is often superior to ePub readers.

<comment><USER11> Hmmm? pop a ePub into iBooks on your iPad and you change font, size etc to your hearts content and it will reflow nicely. Not so with a PDF

<comment><USER10> I'm reading the Cambridge Grammar of the English Language at the moment. It has a complex layout with varied typography, examples with subscripts and superscripts, text that's left, center, and right aligned, callout boxes, sidebars, diagrams, tables, multiple heading levels, footnotes and so on. ePub simply can't handle complex layouts or typographic requirements beyond those you'd find in a novel. Also, the justification and hyphenation algorithms in ePub readers are typically complete crap.

<comment><USER12> >the justification and hyphenation algorithms in ePub readers are typically complete crap.

IMO, ePub readers have the best justification algorithm: flush left, and the best hyphenation algorithm: never hyphenate. PDFs often force full justification on you, which makes it harder to read because all the line endings have the same spacing, making it easy to lose your position in the text.

<comment><USER13> I actually doubt that "flush left only" and "no hyphenation" are the only, or even standard, options for most readers.

But I think there's a synthesis possible between what you mean and what OP meant: ePub readers are somewhat better at adjusting to the reader. "Reader" here in terms of both the device and the actual human. Text can reflow, columns are used only where they make sense, and settings can be changed.

PDFs are better at allowing the creator to, well, create. I know there's a hard core demographic that doesn't believe in any sort visual design. Yet there are topics and authors where choices of placement, font, color etc. are made with intent, and to good effect. Everything Tufte comes to mind.

It should be possible, with something like Apple's Book Author, to create such designs that work well within the e-Book format. But I haven't seen any examples, probably because I rarely read textbooks these days and tend to buy paper copies of such books, anyway.

In as far as I have seen illustrations in non-PDF formats, the results are dismal, with all sorts of sizing problems etc.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> \- (React) Have sold thousands and now offered for free: [https://leanpub.com/ui-react](https://leanpub.com/ui-react)

\- (Real-Time Rendering with WebGL2) Just reached out to the publisher. Let's see what happens: [https://www.amazon.com/Real-Time-Graphics-WebGL- interactive-...](https://www.amazon.com/Real-Time-Graphics-WebGL-interactive- applications- ebook/dp/B07GVNQLH5/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1541780051&sr=8-1&keywords=webgl+2#customerReviews)

</comment><comment><USER15> O'Reilly let me put my book up. Thanks O'Reilly for being a cool publisher!

[https://buildingtoolswithgithub.teddyhyde.io/](https://buildingtoolswithgithub.teddyhyde.io/)

</comment><comment><USER16> Am I the only one who feels that authors should be paid for their work? I'll go a step further and say that I think that authors offering up their work for free hurts the entire ecosystem, since it gives consumers the expectation that information is free.

Look at phone apps as an example. We've gotten to a point that many (maybe most) people won't pay $5 for a high quality game that they get hours of usage out of. So the savviest (in terms of making money) developers make games with a freemium model, giving you a basic game for free, but charging you for extras and add-ons. On the face of it, this is fine, since Jack can decide to make a freemium game and Jill can make her game paid. The problem is that Jill now lives in a world where free games are so much the norm that without incredible marketing power, people won't even take a look at her.

The same thing has taken hold in much of the software we use. It's hard to get my boss to agree to pay $300 for a non-open source, but really nifty JS library, because there's an inferior version available for free. Another example is Matlab, which is paid software but is slowly losing marketshare to Python for scientific computing (numpy/scipy). I personally prefer the latter, but when I tried out the former in grad school, I was impressed with how well Matlab was documented and that I could reach out to them and get quick answers if things weren't working as I expected them to (hint: in python/scipy, things were often a little bit off in the code. With matlab, it was usually something _I_ was doing. But it's very helpful to have a paid expert get back to me and tell me that). It's a shame that people have gotten so used to free software that they often won't consider paid software anymore.

I get that for things that involve security, you might want to be able to audit things. And I also think that we 100% need some things to be open standards decided on by the community. I'm not _against_ free software, I'm against people not being able to make a living writing paid software. Or someone spending a lot of time writing a great piece of paid software only for someone to come along and immediately copy them with a free version.

I don't think that the same thing has taken hold yet with books. By and large, people are still willing to pay for these. But I sure hope it stays that way.

EDIT: I agree with many that the length of copyrights is ridiculous. I like the idea of copyright generally, but I think that we need to strike a balance where producing information is rewarded but has its limits. I don't know what the answer should be, but life of author plus 70 years (current rule in the US) seems a bit excessive.

EDIT 2: To show where we area potentially headed, look no further than newspapers. How many newspapers that exist today are going to be viable over the next 20 years? Even local newspapers in major cities are struggling because people today have the expectation that news should be free. I think that there are interesting proposals for government funding that would allow citizens to allocate a share of funds to media outlets of their choice. I haven't really given these much thought. But absent something like that, the future is going to be filled with a small number of big players plus a lot of tabloids, eyeball grabbing headlines, and outright fake news.

<comment><USER17> > Am I the only one who feels that authors should be paid for their work?

No. The question is what's the right way to get there?

> I'll go a step further and say that I think that authors offering up their > work for free hurts the entire ecosystem, since it gives consumers the > expectation that information is free.

Once produced, information should be free. Doing research, writing it down, making a book, none of that needs to be free.

<comment><USER10> > Doing research, writing it down, making a book, none of that needs to be > free.

That works in some cases. I get paid for ghost writing articles and books for business people. They usually publish for free to make themselves look clever. But no one would claim that the result is independent or motivated by artistic creativity.

Your model is fine for hackwork and what is essentially marketing, but that's about all it's fine for. No one would have paid $INSERT_FAVORITE_NOVELIST to research and write their novels if they knew there'd be zero chance of making a return on that investment.

<comment><USER17> > No one would have paid $INSERT_FAVORITE_NOVELIST to research and write their > novels if they knew there'd be zero chance of making a return on that > investment.

Uh, do you buy novels for RoI? I thought you'd buy them to read and enjoy them. And you'd give novelists money so that they can write a book for you to read and enjoy.

<comment><USER16> He's not talking about ROI for the consumer, he's talking about ROI for the author who put time into writing a novel. Take Dickens, who was famously opposed to the _lack_ of copyright laws in America at the time and felt that he was getting cheated by people who read his work without paying him. I wonder how many people sent him money out of good will?

Yes, there is Patreon for supporting creators, but very few people make a decent living this way. And many authors would prefer a publisher who helps them take a risk by fronting money to something like Patreon, where you are at the mercy of your consumers who may or may not give you enough money to create your work.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> I agree with author's point in regard of fiction/non fiction literature, as it gets traction among readers there is a better chance to sell a hard copy or get a citation.

However in case of professional and academic literature, as much as I would prefer that personally, such approach simply is not maintainable.

The best middle ground I've come across is when author gives out free copies per each request (like a letter from student who can't afford to pay the full amount)

</comment><comment><USER19> Oh, the post points out that Physically Based Rendering is free now (a 2016 book). I'm not even mad. It was worth the steep price it originally cost. If you're interested in rendering based on physics, it's excellent. If you're interested in "literate coding" where the manuscript and the source code are the same thing, it is stellar as that is the way it was built. I highly recommend it.

</comment><comment><USER20> This is a good step in making your work live a longer life, and do more to help the world.

Particularly once that first (and likely only) flush of money has come and gone.

</comment><comment><USER21> I support this in principle, but doesn't Amazon require that you not sell the book anywhere for less than the Amazon price? I'm pretty sure that means you can't give it away for free, either. I think that's why, although some books that are sold for money on Amazon are creative commons licensed, you won't generally find them on the authors' websites. It's legal, but I think it's a violation of the author or publisher's contract with Amazon to do that.

3rd parties can make such books available, though... legally, at least. In that situation, Amazon's TOS (assuming it has something like "thou shalt not redistribute any books purchased from Amazon without Amazon's permission") for ebook buyers would violate the clearly stated book license, so the TOS would become void, right?

<comment><USER22> The rules for self-published books on amazon and the rules for publishers are very different. if you have a book published through KDP you almost certainly can't offer it for free, but if you're published through through one of the big 5 then you can do whatever your deal with the publisher says.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> On a side topic, how does one arrange the rights for a self published book (ie If I write a book but publish myself is putting "(c) Paul" good enough?)

Edit: mostly I don't need to or it's obvious [https://writing.stackexchange.com/questions/18180/what- do-i-...](https://writing.stackexchange.com/questions/18180/what-do-i-put-on- my-copyright-page-when-self-publishing)

This article it seems is mostly where you assigned away your rights to a company if it falls out of publication.

<comment><USER24> Read your contract before signing. For my two most recent books I retain the right to buy the publisher out (not a traditional publisher but one serving the self-pub market).

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> What a great reminder to authors that it's possible. Especially in tech, since the various technologies get replaced so quickly - quite a few books barely sell out the first printing before they're already obsolete. Why not put them up online for free after that.

Plus, the freebie can serve double duty as free marketing for the next edition.

</comment><comment><USER26> I wish more authors would do this. I too prefer EPUB but I recognize there is lower friction to just publish it as a PDF.

</comment><comment><USER27> Very, very few authors make enough off of their books to live on. They write a book, make a few hundred or a few thousand off of it, the book goes out of print, they're forgotten.

At least re-release it for free after the first two or three years. Then, it serves as an advertisement for your skills or the next book you write.

<comment><USER4> >Then, it serves as an advertisement for your skills or the next book you write.

That assumes the book still serves as a good advertisement. Whether it's just because your writing skills have improved or because, for non-fiction, things have changed and your book is very out of date, you may not really want people to judge you by it.

I eventually pulled a book I wrote about 6 years ago because so much had fundamentally changed in the technologies and market dynamics I had written about at the time. (You can actually still get it for free from my website in PDF but it's not really something that would be useful for anyone outside of providing a dated historical snapshot.)

<comment><USER28> While it can confuse things to have out of date documentation out there. I often get stuck with setups using out of date software. Maybe it's 1% of 1% of users, but finding good references for out of date stuff is so nice.

<comment><USER29> I totally agree. When maintaining ancient software, I usually have to end up hunting for the source of the dependencies just to regenerate the documentation. Time is not linear.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> Why do publishers agree to rights reversion? It reduces heir opportunity to directly profit and it increases competition for their other books they sell.

<comment><USER31> Most books (especially more than a year in) aren't actually a profit opportunity, and the effect of increasing competition for their other books is small enough to be totally negligible (at least in the current state of the market). And, as the other comment said, free ebooks can drive book sales.</comment></comment>


Etsy Opens to Manufacturing - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2015/09/14/etsy-opens-to-manufacturing/

<comment><USER2> Like 3 years ago, Etsy was this hip new thing that my young friends and I would visit for very authentic trinkets. Neat hand-made necklaces, little trinkets in designs no one had thought of.

Last year, I was hunting for pocketwatches, and everything I saw on Etsy seemed to be mass produced in China, literally the same as the stuff I found on Amazon and Alibaba.

This article seems to suggest that they've fully accepted this model for more revenue. The problem is, they abandoned their niche, and there's no way they can compete with the likes of Amazon without it. They've lost sight of the most important thing -- their users.

I guess it's back to eBay for me.

</comment><comment><USER3> uniquely crafted and hand made (in China, by the gross)</comment>