Selling Apps: What am I doing wrong? Need outside perspective - <AUTHOR>

Hi HN,
As a side job, I've taken up developing, designing and trying to sell apps. The market is crowded and there seems to be no room for my apps. I had a pretty good first week selling an app that I've spent seven months of my free time on, making $200 on the highest day. Now, it's down to about $2 or $3 a day - barely selling any copies, constantly slipping in the charts.
Are there any people on HN with serious experience, willing to help out a beginner? Together we could come up with a list that can really help people. I feel like I'm the only person in the room who doesn't get get the joke. Should I just quit?
p.s. I've tried some things already, which unfortunately didn't work for me:
- Bamify Ads
- Getting my Designer to dribbble the app - Writing bloggers - Having Sales $2.99 -> $0.99 - Improving the app - Adding features that were requested - Having a nice website - I don't think being young helps you either - Trying to get some exposure on HN - Being in the Instapaper App Direcoty - Having a Youtube video - Having a great name: Read <comment><USER2> I've had some success with higher priced apps ($200), but my $1 and $2 apps haven't made much traction. I just released Commit yesterday: <http://thinklegend.com/commit>

Hopefully it will do a little better than my last app.

I'll answer whatever I can (firstname.lastname@example.com), but I think we are in a similar position. I'd love to hear what you learn.

<comment><AUTHOR> I really love the design of your new app. I'll email you later

<comment><USER2> I like the name of your app (Read), short simple names (Draft, Fluent, Commit, Brushes) are really nice.

<comment><AUTHOR> It is pretty nice, but I'm starting to think that it does more harm than good. The trouble is the commonality of the name. It's also really hard keep track on the web, i.e. if someone blogs about it, etc.

<comment><USER2> Good point. I use Google Alerts for OneVoice (my expensive app), but I couldn't for Fluent and Commit.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Both your site and the screenshots from your app look beautiful. It looks like you've done great work. But I personally do not feel inclined to try your app because I do not see anything it does that I'm not already getting from Reeder, Flipboard, and Instapaper. For people in my position, is there anything you can tell me that will make me want to try your app?

</comment><comment><USER4> You're posting a question about how to get traction here and not even a link to the said app? :( Do I have to google your username, or check your profile then see that you have a twitter account in the hope that I will find something there ? Not good. You're on a pretty good position on HN and maybe going higher. Take advatange of that.

<comment><AUTHOR> Again - didn't want to make the thread look like an advert -App Store: <http://rdit.in/get>

<comment><USER4> No prob. Now the link is present :)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> i'm not sure what your apps do but one method to promote them is to implement a referral service within your app.

For example if it's a game, maybe if the user refers 10 people they get some sort of credit in the game to help them advance etc. (however i'm not sure how you can track referals through app store. maybe someone else can chime in).

<comment><USER2> I think if your app is inexpensive and has some good offers as in-app purchases this could work well. Similar to what DropBox did for extra storage.

</comment></comment><comment><USER6> Be thankful atleast you made this one and still making it. I could not get the figure even in months!

</comment><comment><USER7> Link to said app?

<comment><AUTHOR> Sorry about that, I didn't want to make this look like an ad: <http://readapp.net>

App Store: <http://rdit.in/get>

<comment><USER3> Perhaps it's telling that you intentionally left the links out because you didn't want your genuine question to look like a veiled sales pitch? I know personally I'm not a good salesman, and I also would have been inclined to leave out the link for the same reason.

Perhaps the problem is that you haven't been doing a good job of selling your product to the people you talk to?

Your app looks beautiful, and if it's as good as it looks, it deserves to be used. It will help people. It will be worth the cost to them. You'll be doing them a favor by selling to them. But people don't realize that, and (unfortunately) products cannot always sell themselves. So what you might need right now is to learn salesmanship or hire someone to help you with that. Get that person in contact with bloggers. If you have an amazing product but can't convince people why they need it, it's a real shame.

This is just speculation. Best of luck to you!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Being young is a double edged sword. I know from experience. The best I can do for you is tell you that persistence pays off. You'll find success just after you're ready to quit. If you resist that urge you'll be alright. Also, great design has a lot to do with how people judge whether to buy an app or not. Male sure the previews are beautiful and are actual screenshots, not those stupid ad-type things. Actually show the app working. Having a site dedicated to the app that links to the app store is also good.

Features and eradicating bugs are important but when two apps are of equal quality I've seen the prettier one win every time. So make sure everything from the UI to the app icon is beautiful and fits with the iOS experience. I'm embarrassed to say even I'm guilty of deleting apps because of their icon alone! And I'm a programmer! Imagine how regular users must be.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks, that was insightful. I think you would be able to judge the app just by looking at the screenshots in the App Store, here's a link: <http://rdit.in/get>

<comment><USER8> It actually looks really beautiful! I have some criticisms though.

First off, the app itself is beautiful and so is the website for it. The preview Images in the app store aren't so great though. Those are the types of preview photos that I was talking about that turn people off. Just show the app in use instead of images with how to use it superimposed on top of it. My opinion is that you should just use screenshots of your most marketable features and leave out the diagrams. The one exception would be the photo of the white iPad that shows the feature that looks kind of like mobile Safari's Reader feature.

Otherwise I'm stumped. It looks really good to be honest and at only $0.99 I don't know why people wouldn't buy it. Maybe you just need to get on some more blogs and do more marketing. The app store is very competitive and apps like yours are everywhere. Your UI is a feature though - don't forget that!</comment></comment></comment>


Vintage electronics for trusted radiation measurements - <AUTHOR> https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/1616454 <comment><USER2> Wonder how long it would take a 6502 to do dinner public key cryptography operations. Would be an interesting addition to an e-voting system.

</comment><comment><USER3> recently, [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23100735](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23100735)</comment>


Cassandra vs. MongoDB vs. CouchDB vs. Redis vs. Riak Comparison - <AUTHOR> https://kkovacs.eu/cassandra-vs-mongodb-vs-couchdb-vs-redis <comment><AUTHOR> MongoDB and Cassandra are on top of the pile as far as NoSQL goes [1], but I wonder how other DB's are comparing as of late? I'm particularly interested in Couchbase for some reason, because it seems to be the most robust mix of 'the good stuff' that the other DB's offer. Can anyone shed some light or shade?

[1] [http://db-engines.com/en/ranking](http://db-engines.com/en/ranking)

<comment><USER2> Mongo DB got a lot of traction very early on, despite some less than optimal defaults. As time went on, adoption grew, their marketing teams and support contracts also took them to the next level. I liked them early on, because it was such a natural pairing with Node on the server. The disconnect that you get from ORMs was gone in my mind, and despite the likes of Mongoose, I often don't see the point of the mappers, beyond basic data validation.

Cassandra is at the tops because it was a very early BigTable-like solution that came out of Facebook. It has many options to tweak, and scales near linearly. But at the cost of having to do for yourself what you might take for granted in other databases.

Couchbase is interesting, I also think that Redis has become interesting as well, but would suggest separate instances depending on the use case.

The one that I think doesn't get enough consideration is probably RethinkDB... from a dev-ops perspective it's hands down one of the better NoSQL databases to work against. From a dev perspective, the fluent API is sometimes better, other times harder than say MongoDB's, but it works. It's about as close as it gets to easy to deploy-scale in my mind, and would love to be able to use it more.

From my own experience, most of my data fits well in either traditional SQL, a bigtable-like solution where most queries are single-key (Cassandra) or an in- memory kv store such as with Redis. Mongo has traction, and RethinkDB is my preferred choice where I want tiered data in a single record (document store), which serves several other areas in between traditional SQL and the likes of Cassandra.

Another interesting one not covered is etcd...

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks for the feedback. I have to write a paper about any NoSQL DB of my choice, and its hard to pick one. I've been looking at RethinkDB a lot this morning, and the change feed is compelling!</comment></comment></comment>


Girl buys water, spends night in jail - <AUTHOR> http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/uva-girl-water-beer-jail-181104442.html <comment><USER2> She was lucky she wasn't male and black. Because if she were, they'd probably shoot him, and then say "they thought he was drawing a weapon...as he fled".

Not like it hasn't happen exactly like that before. There was even a video of it online. I think if more tourists knew stuff like this is happening in America, they'd stay the hell away from it.

<comment><USER3> Sometimes I think the lack of Armed Police in the UK is a benefit as they take arming an officer with a lethal weapon is a serious matter and requires specific training/psychoanalysis.

What possible requirement could the " Alcohol Beverage Control Division" need to be armed?! Does every Government Official get a weapon/carry/threaten permit when they join?!

<comment><USER4> Massive +1 to this.

It seems to me that the UK police, since they are not armed, generally try to defuse situations. (Of course, they can call for armed backup if it is necessary.)

Time and again, I read of US police unnecessarily escalating situations. If your immediate response to any tension is to pull out a gun and start shouting, then things are very likely to get a lot worse in many cases.

Perhaps this is just confirmation bias though. I only get to read about the US cases where things have gone wrong.

<comment><USER5> > Perhaps this is just confirmation bias though. I only get to read about the > US cases where things have gone wrong.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menez...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menezes)

<comment><USER6> Whilst that is a harrowing case, it is hardly the same as the routine pulling of guns first and asking questions later attitude that you were replying to?

<comment><USER5> Thanks for bringing this up!

I considered the same point before posting the link, but decided that it was appropriate considering (imo) that it is a product of the same 21st century paranoia and police culture of "shoot first, ask questions later".

<comment><USER6> These were officers who, at short notice, were staking out a suspected terrorist's flat just days after a bombing and during a national hysteria. It was a horrid chain reaction of errors, but it was hardly officers waving guns around to apprehend a girl they thought had brought beer?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I'm always a little amazed that the age for buying booze in the states is 21.

Wait, am I understanding this correctly? At the age of 20 she's not allowed to buy alcohol but could have already owned a gun for 2 years?

The world is a funny old place.

<comment><USER8> You can pretty much blame MADD for that. Originally it started out as an organization with the best intentions but over time it's turned into more or less a modern temperance movement.

The key was figuring out that if you pressure the federal government enough you can get states to fall in line. The federal government doesn't have the ability to set a blanket drinking age for every state. But it does have the ability to withhold federal highway funds from states that refuse to set their minimum drinking age at 21.

<comment><USER9> That still doesn't explain the age of 21. Couldn't the federal government just as easily had required states set the age at 18 in order to recieve highway funds.

<comment><USER8> The age was already 18 in most states, so that wouldn't have done anything.

The 21 age was chosen partly because there was already historical precedent in holding back certain rights or privileges until the age of 21, such as voting prior to the 26th amendment. Also, it helps that it's only 3 years from 18, so it can be written off as just a minor change.

As I mentioned MADD basically transitioned into becoming a neo- prohibitionist/temperance movement organization. Even the founder, who left the group the year after MADD succeeded in getting the National Minimum Drinking Age Act passed, believes that to be the case. Shifting the drinking age is one part of that, they've also campaigned for increasing the excise taxes on alcohol to reduce consumption.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> In what sense was pulling a gun justified even if she _was_ holding a 12-pack of beer? "Alcohol Beverage Control" agents? Is this a repost from 1927?

</comment><comment><USER11> I've had a similar thing happen to me (I live in Croatia). It happened a few years back so some details are hazy now. It was a rainy evening and I was picking up my brother and we were to drive home for the weekend. His girlfriend was also with him. So, I pick them up and drive to this small parking space to turn the car around. The moment I circled the car around the parking, an unmarked Octavia reverses in front of me, with two bald guys in sport jackets running towards me. I didn't know how to react, in a second or two all sorts of scenarios went thorough my mind. Were they robbers? Then I saw them moving their hands towards their hips. Going for guns? Should I put the car in reverse and try to escape? They pulled out what looked like badges and started yelling to turn off the engine and step out. I still believe t was a leap of faith on my part, trusting them to be the police and I'm afraid of what might've happened if I acted differently. They asked us to empty our pockets, patted us, searched the car and just left, no explanation, no sorry, nothing. They didn't search the girl, I guess it's against the law or something. My brother jokes how one of the officers persistently asked him if he had something in his pants, and all he thought was "yeah, shit, because I almost shat myself". I suppose they were on a stakeout, probably looking for narcotics dealers or something, who knows. It wasn't a pleasant experience at all.

</comment><comment><USER12> >> "undercover agents from the state's Alcohol Beverage Control"

>> " One jumped on the hood of her SUV; another pulled out a gun"

What The F*ck America?

<comment><USER13> Indeed. And seven agents for a case of beer? Green card applications dropping much?

</comment></comment><comment><USER14> This is why I will never visit Saudi Arabia.

Wait, where did this happen again?

<comment><USER15> People still flock to the US and Dubai for some reason.

Not me though.

<comment><USER16> I know so many ex-pats who moved to Dubai and constantly told me what a great pace it was to live, but as soon as they had a child moved (back) to the West; many of them not the country they came from, but just somewhere in the West.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> _" You don't know all the facts until you complete the investigation,"_.

Man, that is blind faith in so many untrustworthy sources (remember '41 shots?') that I am trying to recover from the shock. Poor girl.

Seven people. I say: seven. One, two three, four, five, six, seven. They would have scared everything out of me.

<comment><USER18> 7 people with guns to pursue the buyer of 12 pack. It would at least a homicide to get that amount of police force around here.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> Why does "underage" alochol purchasing require law enforcement officers to draw a gun?

<comment><USER20> Because the law enforcement officers have to protect their own lives. This is America, where anyone could be carrying an implement that requires two seconds to kill.

<comment><USER21> > Because the law enforcement officers have to protect their own lives.

Against a teenage girl who may have _gasp_ bought some beer?

How about:

"Excuse me, miss. We suspect you have illegaly purchased alcohol. May we inspect your car, please?"

Scenario 1: "Oh! Ok." Car is inspected. "Oh it's just water. Sorry about the trouble, have a good day!"

Scenario 2: Girl tries to escape and drives off. Note personalia and license number. File charges as usual.

There is no realistic scenario in which they need to threaten her on her life and assault her car because of a suspected _12-pack of beer_.

<comment><USER22> I agree - the chances of a teenage girl packing heat is probably small, but it's those small chances that can get you seriously injured.

According to this (admittedly outdated) research paper [1], the high-end estimate of traffic stops resulting in the homicide of the police officer is 1:20.1 Million. This doesn't really sound like a traditional traffic stop - more like a sting (something that I couldn't readily find data for).

[1] [http://blog.lib.umn.edu/jbs/Criminal%20Procedure%20in%20Amer...](http://blog.lib.umn.edu/jbs/Criminal%20Procedure%20in%20American%20Society/OfficersAssaulted.pdf) (Warning... PDF)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Looks like they have been deluged with complaints. They have posted something on Facebook:

[https://www.facebook.com/notes/virginia-department-of- alcoho...](https://www.facebook.com/notes/virginia-department-of-alcoholic- beverage-control/clarifying-abcs-involvement-in-april-11-charlottesville- incident/10151739068971788)

</comment><comment><USER24> Usual stuff, she will have to plead guilty to get suspended sentence. Then permanent record and ruined life. Officers will get bonus points and salary increase. Justice always wins!

Update: apparently charges were dropped

<comment><USER25> According to the source article ( [http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/bottled- water-purchase-lea...](http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/bottled-water- purchase-leads-to-night-in-jail-for- uva/article_b5ab5f62-df9b-11e2-81c4-0019bb30f31a.html) ), the prosecutor said that Ms. Daly's account was "factually consistent"; dropped the three felony charges; and defended the police's actions.

The fact that the prosecution isn't pushing harder suggests that the story here is essentially true — "a girl was assaulted by a disorderly armed mob on her way out of a grocery store and managed to escape them, but it turned out that they were plainclothes police who had mistaken her bottled water for beer and were trying to arrest her, so they put her in prison overnight and filed three felony charges (which have since been dropped)." Classy, guys.

You have to wonder whether anyone in the group who performed the arrest has any kind of remorse or has developed any sort of insight about whether they might have done things differently.

<comment><USER24> You are right, charges were dropped. So she is probably going to be fine.

<comment><USER12> >> So she is probably going to be fine.

I bet she's going to have an all-new viewpoint on law enforcement officers though.

<comment><USER26> No conflict between those two statements.

The civil lawsuit is going to be interesting.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> Important as these stories are to get out, really they are handled by other news outlets quite well.

Exactly what one learns from one incident, in one state, in one country is hard to say.

The story has no round up of a greater meaning other than the one incident which leads the reader without any cause and effect.

Is this American budgets cuts? Is this the problem with counties having to much power? Is this the militarisation of the police force? What is the trend here if any?

As per news is bad for you, I think this is one of them. High stress, low information.

</comment><comment><USER28> Are police even allowed to do this if they're not in uniform?

I completely understand their reaction to get away when a group of people suddenly draw their guns and try to force you to get out of the car...

</comment><comment><USER29> This story doesn't add up. Why would 7 undercover officers be staking out a local supermarket to take down 20 year old girls buying beer?

<comment><USER30> Budget cuts? Police did weirder things for bonus pay.

Like cause a man a heart attack, by goading him to a bet a large sum (over some federal minimum). Heart attack was caused by SWAT members assaulting his house.

EDIT: Note it's not a heart attack they shot him through the heart. It's from this article [http://www.cracked.com/article_19450_6-laws-youve-broken- wit...](http://www.cracked.com/article_19450_6-laws-youve-broken-without-even- realizing-it.html)

<comment><USER31> Got a link for that story?

<comment><USER32> Sounds like two separate stories mixed up.

In the gambling case a SWAT member actually shot the man dead: [http://reason.com/archives/2011/01/17/justice-for- sal](http://reason.com/archives/2011/01/17/justice-for-sal)

And here's a story of an elderly woman having a heart attack from a flashbang in a failed drug raid: [http://gazette.com/grandmother-sues-over-flash-bang- grenade-...](http://gazette.com/grandmother-sues-over-flash-bang-grenade- raid/article/126577)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> To every innocent action there is brutal police overreaction. Newton's long lost fourth law of physics.

</comment><comment><USER34> Happens only in US. The government gets more and more paranoid

</comment><comment><USER35> So, when I was 17, I bought some cases of beer. When I came out of the supermarket (with the beer visible in my cart), I walked by some (uniformed and probably armed) police officers. I greeted them and they wished me a nice weekend. Because in Germany, police officers are usually quite polite.

<comment><USER11> And in Germany drinking beer is like drinking water ;) (I have one uncle in Nuremberg and another in Pforzheim).

</comment></comment><comment><USER36> The whole situation is ridiculous but I'm especially interested in this bit:

 _" They were showing unidentifiable badges after they approached us, but we became frightened, as they were not in anything close to a uniform"_

This happened to me when I was travelling in Europe, a cop without a uniform approached to me on the train somewhere between Netherlands and Germany and asked me for my ID. I asked for his ID, he flashed something (obviously I had no freaking idea whether it was legit, no idea what was even written on it since I don't know the language).

What do you do in this case? Do you obey or challenge more? Isn't that dangerous as anyone can flash some random / fake badge and cause you to go with them, gather private information or worse?

</comment><comment><USER37> When are Americans going to see this as essentially an infringement of their rights as adults? Yes their are adults.

At the age of 20 Americans are old enough to join the army and engage in combat duty, drive, run bank accounts, be tried as adults and even be sentenced to death. And yet drinking at the age 20 is perceived as an imprisonable offence, and law enforcement officers consider it reason to arrest adults because of that?

Frankly Americans tolerate too much nonsense from their corrupt and hypocritical law makers.

It seems to be one the laws retained to enable their fascist state to criminalize their citizens so they can have something to hold over them.

</comment><comment><USER38> It will be nice to take my son down the pub on his 18th, buy him a nice cold beer, congratulate him on reaching adulthood and give thanks that we don't live in a backwood shithole like the USA.

</comment><comment><USER39> To serve and annoy. Thanks for keeping our city safe from the dangerous and out of control 20 year-old college females. They are quite the scourge on our modern surburbias.

<comment><USER26> "Thanks for keeping our city safe from the dangerous and out of control 20 year-old college females. They are quite the scourge on our modern surburbias."

I'm sure there's a "girls gone wild" joke in there somewhere.

</comment></comment><comment><USER40> These days, as an anarcho capitalist, I just feel like the entire world is continuously handing me ammunition to justify my position, and I have had plenty for years.

Both amusing and sad.

</comment><comment><USER41> Wow, funny country.

</comment><comment><USER42> [http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/bottled-water-purchase- lea...](http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/bottled-water-purchase-leads-to- night-in-jail-for-uva/article_b5ab5f62-df9b-11e2-81c4-0019bb30f31a.html)

There's the original article - that hasn't been edited by deleting text and making later references to it nonsensical.

</comment><comment><USER43> What about being arrested for filming the police and getting your dog shot dead after getting out of the car and lunging at an officer?

[http://reason.com/blog/2013/07/01/get-cuffed-for-filming- pol...](http://reason.com/blog/2013/07/01/get-cuffed-for-filming-police-your- dog-g)

</comment><comment><USER44> Greatest nation.

</comment><comment><USER45> "One jumped on the hood of her SUV; another pulled out a gun": Do the girls deserve such treatment just because the police suspected they possess alcohol? Do you need firearms to handle such situation? US looks more and more like a police state.

</comment><comment><USER22> It sounds like something else is at play here. You wouldn't typically send a full assault team to grab underage drinkers.

If you were looking for a known fugitive/dangerous suspect that happens to frequent a grocery store for beer on the other hand...

</comment><comment><USER46> Freedom, hey?

All a bit Sharia, no?

</comment><comment><USER23> There's something very odd about the Virginian Department of Alcohol Beverage Control. They seem to arrest people for carrying water, but they hold alcohol tasting sessions in their government owned liquor shops.

</comment><comment><USER47> As someone who went to UVA, this isn't entirely surprising, but it still saddens me. The cops there are largely bored, and they put too much emphasis on the state sanctioned ABC monopoly over liquor.

</comment><comment><USER48> honestly it is fark.com grade material :)

<comment><USER12> Actually I think I saw this on fark a couple of days ago...

</comment></comment><comment><USER49> Isn't pulling a gun on a supermarket customer a bit of an overkill?

</comment><comment><USER50> You silly Americans, you.

</comment><comment><USER51> Board members: [http://www.abc.virginia.gov/admin/board.html](http://www.abc.virginia.gov/admin/board.html)

</comment><comment><USER52> maybe you don't file charges until you complete an investigation

</comment><comment><USER53> My son's a cop. He said what I was thinking. There is far more going on here than what the story states and the reporter is not asking the right questions or the agents can't say. In either case, the girl got caught up in something bigger than the writer says by mistake.

Nothing to see here. Move on.

<comment><USER54> Unless you're suggesting that the girl actually was up to something nefarious, there absolutely _is_ something to see here. Police should not be drawing weapons for anything other than an imminate danger to human life.

Watching the police in action is the one negative experience that I have had in the US. You guys really need to calm your (oversized) police force down - they're thugs in uniform.

</comment></comment><comment><USER55> I don't know if there is a study or theory to support this, but it seems that the longer any two opposing sides (like the police and criminals) face each other, the stronger is the influence of one over the other.

To a point when both sides have picked up significant good/bad behavior from each other. And then the very same police looks both aggressive and distasteful to the rest of us - i.e those who were not in the loop ever.

Wait, quantum entanglement?

</comment><comment><USER56> haha wow… America is absolutely hilarious. The fact she was 20 years old is a great punchline</comment>


Rise of the RoboMasters - <AUTHOR> http://www.theverge.com/2016/9/27/13059144/dji-robomasters-robot-drone-battle-video-frank-wang-interview <comment><USER2> Man, I was born 20 years early!

And in the wrong country!

This is much better to watch then Dota or LoL tournaments.

<comment><USER3> Drone racing has become popular: [http://dronenationals.com](http://dronenationals.com)

Some version of the robotic "game" could be turned into a sport for all ages. Both an amateur level, that limits cost, and a pro level with sponsors.

</comment></comment><comment><USER3> Great idea. Rather than getting people to become masters at twitch games, they instead build intelligent machines that compete.</comment>


Looking for a Technical CoFounder - <AUTHOR>

I have a website that needs help getting to the next level.  The site has been producing revenue since July 2010, although it is not yet profitable.  I need a Technical Co-Founder to help with this push.
We are an online marketplace for spas and salons to list their slower appointment times, typically at a discount.  We partner with spas, and when a client books through our site, we take a cut of the transaction.  Currently, we work with spas in Chicago, San Francisco, Denver, and Seattle.
The site is built in Django.  Once an appointment is booked an email is automatically sent and we utilize Twilio for automated phone calls to the spas.  There are between 5 - 10 transactions per week, but this needs to be pushed to the next level.
One of the biggest challenges is just getting eyeballs to the site.  Currently we get 50 - 100 daily visitors, 1/3 of which is from paid traffic.  We are looking to increase organic traffic.  Ideas on this front will likely be the biggest driver of site success.
Why I'm a good cofounder for you: I'm a business guy.  I need a tech guy.  But I'm not just a bum business guy.  I've gone through Zed Shaw's Learn Python the Hard Way and Python Osmosis.  I'm still not any good, but I really want to get to the point where I can contribute code as well.  I will work hard to deliver as a business cofounder, while also learning the tech side.
I hustle. Hard.  I went out and talked to hundreds of spas to get partnerships with them, I know the industry problems inside and out, and I have good connections with the businesses we work with.  Further, I have managed contractors to build the site, to do some PR and marketing work, and to reach the spas.  I raised money to finance the building of the site.  I have a letter of intent for further investment once we hit higher revenue targets...access to more money.
What I'm looking for:
- Django and Python fluent
- SEO background
- Execute online marketing and email campaigns
- Grow our consumer side
- Location: Chicago preferred, but we can work it out with other locations
I'm not looking for a code monkey.  I'm looking for a partner.  I have a strong bias towards a local Chicago developer.  Location, ultimately, isn't important because I will move to your city for the first couple of months to really get this thing going in the right direction.  Working in the same room is very important to me.
Also, to be clear:  I am NOT looking for someone who has a full-time job / freelance gigs, and wants to spend 10 hours a week on this with me as a cofounder.  I'm fully committed to this and I want someone who is able to fully commit to it as well.
Why is this a great opportunity?: - I am offering 1/3 equity in the company (terms to be discussed) - The site is built, operational, and producing revenue - A chance to take a project and help mold it into a success - Proven to obtain funding and if necessary will secure more funding
Interested in talking more??  Contact me at email@example.com and let's get the dialogue started. <comment><USER2> I have worked with and known adennis4 for 4 years and want to vouch for him.

What he's leaving out is that he's incredibly motivated, hard working, and doesn't take no for an answer. He is one of the most outgoing and charismatic guys I know and I'd bet on him to succeed in his ventures through sheer force of will.

He isn't a programmer, but he's trying to learn the ropes. He's still no slouch. He is the _"everything else"_ guy every startup should dream of having. If he doesn't know how to do it, he'll either find out how or find the person who does. This post is him trying to find the person who can propel him to the next level.

Not only is he a good startup bet, he's a guy you just want to be friends with. I cannot sing his praises enough. I would love to work with him, but I can't offer him what he needs. My best guess as a half-hacker is that he needs a guy somewhere between: <http://abstractnonsense.com/life-at-a-startup/> and [http://startup-marketing.com/where-are-all-the-growth- hacker...](http://startup-marketing.com/where-are-all-the-growth-hackers/) (or patio11. that would do nicely.)

Best of luck Andrew.

<comment><USER3> I'm honored to be mentioned, but am kinda busy at the moment. (There's another Twilio-using spa-helping revenue-generating app which wants my attention.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> This is the best "Looking for Tech CoFounder" I've seen in a while on HN! I've been commenting on the bad ones and giving them advice on how to word it correctly. Thanks to this post, I can just reply in the future with a link to this thread. ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT!

I so wish I were in a position to help you - I would use this service in an instant and can tell that you will be wildly successful. Sadly, I have to work full-time to pay my bills and I'm a rails guy, not a django guy.

Someone is going to be very lucky to get involved with you. Please come back and let us know when you get that hockey stick curve - it WILL happen - I'm CERTAIN of that.

FYI - if you decide to expand your offering to Southern California, please let me know. My email is in my profile. My fiance can get the spa's signed up - this would be a dream job for her (not partner - just sales rep).

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks. It's been a tough road...always going up hill. I hope your prophetic words ring true. We'll get to SoCal eventually...I'll be sure to knock on your door when we do.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> What I love about this pitch from a non-technical co-founder -- he tells us:

1\. What he brings to the table, that he can/will hustle and is committed.

2\. What he has already accomplished/shows that he can and will hustle. He is actively trying to learn more about the technical side.

3\. He's very clear about what he's looking for.

4\. He knows that he needs help and he's not shy about asking for it.

Good luck!

</comment><comment><USER6> At last - a full, complete request for something concrete, outlining the whole deal. Kudos to you sir - I tips my hat.

I am not the droid[1] _ahem_ person you're looking for, but I hope you find them, and subsequently (or otherwise!) success.

[1] Star Wars reference - I can see you're not looking for a droid.

<comment><AUTHOR> Ha...yes...thanks for the footnote clarification.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Sounds like you've made some great steps already. A technical co-founder could really take you to the next level. I would however not rule out working with them part time before, as jumping head on in with a new technical cofounder is a bit like getting married after a first date. There should be a bit more of an exhaustive process gone through, which will payoff much better in the long run for you.

</comment><comment><USER8> "One of the biggest challenges is just getting eyeballs to the site." -> maybe you need seo/marketing instead of a technical co-founder? (Or both)

</comment><comment><USER9> 2 things:

* Contact information? The "email" field in your profile is not publicly visible. How should people get in touch with you?

* San Francisco, not San Fransisco.

Really good post though, I hope you have luck finding the perfect person!

<comment><AUTHOR> Noted. Edited. Updated.

firstname.lastname@example.com

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> I'm one of the two developers that got the site built at first (as a contractor gig). I can vouch for adennis being really awesome to work with and being a good hustler.

<comment><AUTHOR> Yeah Rigo...I was wondering how long it was going to take you to speak up.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Good luck. I am in the same situation. I had a promising lead coming out of my submission (<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2320490>), but it did not work out due to conflict of schedules. I hope that you will be able to find someone. Best of luck.

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks. Yeah, we originally had somewhat of a technical cofounder who did great work for us. He, ultimately, had a lot of other stuff on his plate...so it didn't work out. It's a lot harder to move forward than I thought without one.

<comment><USER11> Someone good will always be in high demand. Edit: How about going to campuses around Chicago and posting an add for a co founder? There may be a Zukenburg type of a kid out there waiting for his potential to be discovered? Also, they may be willing to devote a lot of time to the project. Just have them sign an NDA...:P

<comment><USER12> Depending on your take on the situation, I'm thinking Zuckerberg is likely the last person you want as a co-founder.

<comment><USER13> I don't know, both the Winklebros twins and Saverin seemed to have done quite well (financially) out of 'co-founding' with Zuckerberg

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> How do you compete with Spafinder and spaemergency ?

<comment><AUTHOR> SpaEmergency is a gift certificate website. A person goes there to purchase a gift for someone else. That person then has to call the spa to book an appointment. We are an online booking hub. Clients typically book for themselves or a significant other thru our site...no need to call the spa. We don't currently do gift certificates, but that's a big game...and something I would eventually like to offer.

SpaFinder is a huge name in the spa industry. There focus isn't (yet) on online booking. They offer it with their POS system (14 spas using in Chicago), which other POS companies do as well. Changing over from one POS to another is a pain, and a long process. They are a lot bigger in the gift certificate world as well.

To answer your question vaguely - (1.) I get a technical co-founder - (2.) I bust my ass

</comment></comment><comment><USER15> Great post! Finding a great technical co-founder may not be easy, but waiting for the right fit is key. I consider myself lucky to have found the perfect partner in the early days.

On the subject of SEO, one key thing you can do is to start a blog. There's got to be lots of content you can generate around different spa treatments and the like. When it comes to ranking well, this is probably the biggest thing you can do to influence it. You can "optimize" all you want, but without fresh content updated regularly, you will never rank well.

Jonathan AutoSlash.com <http://www.autoslash.com>

</comment><comment><USER16> Hey Andrew,

I think you need 2 people - one marketing person and one developer. It's going to be hard to find someone who has killer technical skills and also gets how to do the SEO/online marketing that you need. Plus 3-person founding teams are the strongest.

I wish you were looking for a concept (and wanted to be part of my team) rather than had your own ideas and were willing to come to DC. You sound like a great person to work with. Good luck!

<comment><AUTHOR> Hey, I appreciate it. I know I need two people...that's why I want to find one really, really hungry developer.

You never know...we may work together one day in the future. I've still got loads to learn on my end, and whether this project is a success or not...I'm hoping it teaches me a lot. Best of luck to you and your ventures in DC.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> Man, I'm in almost the exact opposite position. I'm a technical sole founder, working hard on building a product. I have no clue what to do from a business/funding/sales perspective. I could really use a strong, non bullshitting business guy who knows enough tech to at least listen patiently while I talk through technical issues/roadblocks/brain farts, and who can handle the rest of the "stuff" that doesn't sound like fun to me.

</comment><comment><USER18> A great Pitch ! I know you state you are looking for a full time co-founder but if you ever need help with Social media fan generation, community management and digital PR please get in touch and i would love to contribute some hours (although probably only around 10-15 hours per month).

Best of luck !

Aman Kumra amankumra.com firstname.lastname@example.com

</comment><comment><USER19> This is definitely the best "Looking for a technical co-founder" post I have ever seen. While I can't help you (Rails guy, can't full time etc.), I wish you all the best. Something about your post tells me you will succeed :)

</comment><comment><USER20> Please let us know if you find someone. If this post can't convince a technical cofounder to come on board, then no one else has a chance.

<comment><AUTHOR> I've received a lot of positive feedback...already been in contact with several (seemingly) talented developers. On top of that, this hacker community has been so eager to reach out, introduce themselves, and offer advice, motivation, or to buy me a beer. This is truly a unique and very lucky community to be able to all work together and pull for one another. Glad that I've recently become a part of it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> Good luck dude! I am in Chicago - hope you can find someone local and keep some of the startup mojo around here!

</comment><comment><USER22> Andrew,

What success or not have you had in going through the local Django/Python groups say meetup, etc?

Your choices:

1\. Contractor that has built up savings for long-haul. 2\. Contractor that has had one startup success already. 3\. Current site attracting Incubator interest and low seed capital round.

VC wise it may be too niche..Lightbankk has a better place site called Betterfly(its also the startup name as LightBank is the incubator)..that is not niche based and seems to overlap your area.</comment>


From 60 Frames per Second to 500 in Haskell - <AUTHOR> http://keera.co.uk/blog/2014/10/15/from-60-fps-to-500/ <comment><USER2> Oh dear. I love F# and would really want to motivate myself to Learn me some Haskell but these sort of articles discourage me enormously.

Please, if there are any people here who have written successfully production code in Haskell that needs to have as low memory footprint as possible and be as performant as possible and have reached something like 1.5 x C level memory consumption, 0.75 x C level performance I would really be grateful for any references. I cannot wait to shed myself from the chains of C++ but stories like these, that follow patterns like these, give me the impression we're not there yet:

1\. Awesome language <3 <3 <3 2\. Write production code 3\. Hit a mysterious performance problem (too much memory, too slow, or both)

Note: My interest is in dense computational kernels that are not I/O bound.

Edit: The language is obviously great for problems akin to syntax translation, I'm just constantly hoping someone would do something industrial strength with it and tell about it. Jane Street are extremely bullish about Ocaml ([https://blogs.janestreet.com/](https://blogs.janestreet.com/)). I've yet to face a similar perpetual love letter to Haskell as a language from industrial users.

<comment><USER3> I write performance sensitive haskell all the time.

In fact my main focus the past 2 years has been designing better array computation tools (for dense and sparse matrix computation). (some of which i'm in the process of finally open sourcing)

I've tools and tricks that would drive humans mad before they could figure out how to port the full awesomeness of what i've done to C++. The main place where I'll use C in my haskell is for writing SIMD kernels or wrapping up some unrolled ASM from openblas/blis like this monstrosity [https://github.com/xianyi/OpenBLAS/blob/develop/kernel/x86_6...](https://github.com/xianyi/OpenBLAS/blob/develop/kernel/x86_64/dgemm_kernel_4x4_haswell.S)

for throughput cpu/ram throughput bounded workloads that aren't allocation heavy, thats pretty much the only time I'll break out C, for wrapping up those crazy kernels that are tuned to a specific cpu microarchitecture.

I also know quite a few people who use haskell as a meta language for some domain specific EDSL they compile via using LLVM as a library, I know of people who've proprietary tool chains using modern GHC haskell for really really performance sensitive workloads in this fashion in high frequency trading, computer vision, and scientific computing. (and I've the fortune to consider them my friends)

btw, over on reddit, the amazing austin seipp (who does a LOT of work on GHC) has a super articulate post about performance engineering in haskell [http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/2jbl78/from_60_fram...](http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/2jbl78/from_60_frames_per_second_to_500_in_haskell/cladaeq)

Anyways, at the end of the day, engineering is about building software that works in finite time. The performance bits will only bit in your inner most loop, and the ffi overhead in haskell for c that takes < 10µs should be about 2-5ns (when an ffi call takes less than ~ 10µs, its safe to use the "unsafe" ffi, for operations that may take > 10µs, you should always use the default/"safe" ffi convention or someone will come knocking at your door late at night quite angry).

I should also disclose I'm slowly working out a few crazy extensions to ghc for low level performance engineering, though those might not make it into GHC till 7.12 at the current rate things are going in my life :)

the one area where GHC doesn't shine is in mega core allocation heavy workloads, but i've yet to see anyone do well by default in that regime in any language! :)

EDIT: also, profile before doing performance engineering. And before that choose the right algorithms! :)

EDIT: to further elaborate on some of the tech i've got, I've a way of doing array computation that gives me a very nice blend of guaranteed good memory locality + extensibility that i've not seen in any other array computation tooling i've been able to lay my hands on, at least on this planet :)

<comment><USER2> Thank you, your post was most encouraging! I think I'll have to presume that the adept Haskell devs are mostly developing and not popularizing that much of their advancements.

<comment><USER3> well, they do whatever they have to do to pay the bills! I think a lot of these tool chains, or fragments thereof, are going to be open sourced eventually, but all engineering (open or not) is being paid for by someone (at least indirectly). So a lot of these tools are only going to be make that move once the authors can "pay" for the time to do so. ('cause life is more than just software i'm told!)

You can talk with a lot of people doing numerical computingy things in haskell on the #numerical-haskell channel on freenode.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I'm also pursuing mobile games in Haskell, so I'm very happy to see them working on this. That said, less than 30 fps for a simple game seems very poor to me. For comparison, my previous game ran easily at 60fps on an iPhone 5 w/Gambit Scheme.

So, I'm wondering where the culprit is. Is the android phone fairly old? What does a basic rendering test run at? I.e., w/o yampa or SDL or other game logic? I hope to have my own answers to these questions soon, but bravo to Keera for blazing the trail!

</comment><comment><USER5> Is it concerning that most Haskell optimization guides talk about adding ! to enforce evaluation? It may be a sign that pure functional programming is not quiet there in the real-time world (e.g. real-time rendering) and that some abstractions (declarative instead of imperative) break for these use-cases.

What I want to say is that you really have to know a lot about Haskell to predict a program's runtime performance which is essential in the context of real-time. In my opinion these optimizations seem a little bit hacky: unsafePerformIO is per definition hacky, she-bangs seem sometimes like guess- work and concurrency is always hard to get right (even with MVars).

I really like Haskell but do not consider it yet for latency-sensible tasks as it feels like writing unidiomatic Haskell. In particular I find it concerning that one has to exploit concurrency and parallelism for such a simple game.

Are their ambitions to make GHC (hard) real-time friendly? This will probably require a real-time GC optimized for latency. I would like to read more about this, in particular about using pure (strongly typed) functional languages in a low-level/real-time context. Would it be possible to exploit the type-system there?

<comment><USER6> As it turns out, in practice, you usually want your data structures to be as strict as possible, but your control flow to be as lazy as possible. Further, some code just isn't well-suited to laziness -- so much so that there's work afoot to have a "strict-by-default" LANGUAGE pragma added in GHC 7.10.x[1].

[1] [https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/StrictPragma](https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/StrictPragma)

<comment><USER7> > you usually want your data structures to be as strict as possible, but your > control flow to be as lazy as possible

That's a very nice slogan. I'll have to remember that. It certainly covers the case of generally wanting your record fields to be strict and lists to be lazy when used for control flow.

<comment><USER6> > That's a very nice slogan.

Yeah, I borrowed it from some Haskell luminary. My search-fu failed me so I didn't source it as I should have. :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> It is somewhat mind blowing that the original version of the demo game was done with ridiculously rudimentary logic gates. If you haven't read the history of how Wozniak did this with little over 40 chips, you should look it up.

And yes, I realize the graphics are different. Probably even the game play.

<comment><USER9> At UC Berkeley one of the classes (EECS150) focused on creating an old-school arcade game in an FPGA using (virtual) logic gates. It is one of the best classes I ever took and really gives you an understanding of how these things were possible. It seems impossible when you first see it, but by the end it all clicks and you realize how much is possible in pure silicon.

<comment><USER8> Sounds incredibly fun. Know if any of the resources you used are available in the wild?

<comment><USER10> Not who you're replying to, but there's a similar class at Cambridge where you implement pong/game of life on an FPGA board. Some of the practical course notes are available publicly, though the full computer design notes referenced are not. There may be some interest in the basic sources and approach however: [http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/teaching/0910/ECAD+Arch/](http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/teaching/0910/ECAD+Arch/)

(Linked to the course I know from a few years ago, the course has since changed)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> As a long time haskeller and lover of the language this article really brings out the warts in the language.

I'm super excited about rust [http://www.rust-lang.org](http://www.rust- lang.org) because it retains much of the safety of Haskell, excluding effect tracking, while potentially offering C/C++, bare metal speed.

<comment><USER12> Which warts, exactly? It's a happy account of simple code changes that led to dramatic speed improvements, found using GHC's great profiler. I'm excited about Rust as well (and working on a similar language) but GHC's performance is quite competitive. And I don't find a few strictness annotations and MVars so onerous; in fact, I usually make my data structures strict by default, making fields lazy when I actually need knot-tying or streaming or what have you.

This is also a good example of how easy concurrency and parallelism are in Haskell—I didn't really get how to effectively program with concurrency until I learned Haskell, then ported the knowledge to more challenging environments in imperative-land.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> If you're interested in game programming with Haskell I invite you to the #haskell-game IRC channel (irc.freenode.net) and our sub-reddit [http://reddit.com/r/haskellgamedev](http://reddit.com/r/haskellgamedev) :)

</comment><comment><USER14> I appreciate this article for demonstrating Haskell optimization techniques. But honestly, I kind of expected a 3D game with impressive graphics to finally prove FP can used for these purposes. This is just a Breakout clone that runs below 30fps on Android.

<comment><USER15> Yeah, it seems real impressive until you realize that you could duplicate it, faster, with only a small bit of C or C++.

Until I see a real-time software rendering project in Haskell doing full 3D, don't really think it's worth half the fanboyism it gets.

<comment><USER16> I have to agree. I wanted to see something spectacular and I wanted to see Haskell explored as a real option. But running 25fps on Android?! Seriously? It can't hit 30fps or today's accepted video game speed of 60fps on an extremely trivial Breakout game?? As I was reading, all I could think was that ONLY after a lot of optimizations requiring hacks or deep knowledge of how Haskell operates you hit a low slightly higher but still low benchmark..that's.. nice(?). Not the 'Wow, I should start using Haskell' argument at all.

I don't need to see full 3D to convince me, but the average game on any platform is tens to hundreds of times more asset-heavy, resource-heavy and computation heavy than this example. It's just not convincing to see it perform UNDER the expected 30-60fps.

<comment><USER15> So, the reason I mention full software 3D, is this:

Computers are, at heart, numerical engines. 3D rendering, in software, is the perhaps the purest form of exploiting that. If your language can't do that well, then it's a high-level language and is suited for gluing stuff together. I specify software 3D because any fool can pull in some OpenGL bindings and talk about framerates, but in that case their language is only glue for hardware APIs.

And there's nothing wrong with that, mind you, but then you can't get by on "But think of the performance this could have, one day, with magical compiler technology from the futuuuuuure!". You have to get by only on claims of safety, or developer ergonomics, or provability, or something else.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Cached version: [http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://keera.co.uk/blog/2014/10/15/from-60-fps- to-500/)

<comment><USER18> Sorry about this. Thanks for posting this link. The server had KeepAlive on and couldn't handle the load. Solved.

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> For the love of god, use frametime to measure improvements, not FPS. "A 15 FPS increase" is entirely meaningless, and can mean you doubled your performance or a 1% improvement.

<comment><USER18> Someone else pointed this out. You are right, for comparison of each improvement independently, it's better to use frame time.

In this particular case, we were after a very specific framerate, and it helps to think in FPS. The game outputs both frame time and framerate (currently of each subsystem independently).

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> When profiling games, using FPS to measure performance increases/decreases is kinda silly. For example, going from 25 to 30 fps (5 fps increase) is a bigger performance improvement than going from 90 to 120 fps (30 fps increase). Much better to use frame times.

<comment><USER18> Agreed. The game outputs both. In this particular case, we are after a very specific framerate.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21>
        > C does not annotate pure functions as such, but the
        > semantics of SDL make some data conversions
        > referentially transparent

FWIW, GCC supports such annotations with `__attribute__ ((pure))`.

<comment><USER22> But is that data that ends up in the lib*.so's?

I can see that possibly optimizing within GCC (or LLVM if it supports it) but I have no clue for library shared/static objects.

<comment><USER21> The annotation would go in the header files, so that it works with lib*.so's. For example, glibc's strlen is marked this way (as well as a whole host of other functions).

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Haskell and Clojure are both functional languages with Haskell being purer. That being said, I fairly regularly see posts about how fast Haskell is (Bryan O'Sullivan has a great blog[1]) and I rarely if ever see posts about how fast Clojure is.

What is/are the reason(s) for this? Is it the fault of the JVM, or the bytecode the Clojure compiler emits?

[1] [http://www.serpentine.com/blog/](http://www.serpentine.com/blog/)

<comment><USER24> Haskell is strongly and statically typed which means its compiler can generate more optimized code. The compiler also creates programs that run without a virtual machine. Clojure is dynamically typed and runs on the JVM. It is still really fast compared to many other dynamic languages.

<comment><USER25> Static typing is mostly orthogonal, Haskell is mostly blazing fast because of all the aggressive compiler optimizations and the last decade of hard work by Simon Marlow and others on the parallel runtime.

<comment><USER7> Static types provide guarantees that help the compiler know when optimizations are valid.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> An aside: this article has a lot of bold text, which I find quite distracting. I've seen it said that over-reliance on formatting to make your point is a sign of poor writing.

Most of the bold text could have been removed without any drop in impact (in fact, it would have greater impact because whatever bold text is left would actually stand out).

</comment><comment><USER27> A game that simple should run at 1000 fps in any modern language.

</comment><comment><USER28> Am I missing something here? Breakout ran in real time without overlaps etc. on the Apple ][+ with a 1 MHz 6502.

</comment><comment><USER29> The link just shows a blank page. Zero frames per second here.

<comment><USER7> The web server is having trouble. Reloading worked for me.

<comment><USER18> Sorry to both of you for this. Thanks for pointing it out.

The server was misconfigured (KeepAlive) and couldn't handle the load. It's been fixed now.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> Apparently, the web server doesn't share the speed gain. Switching to the cached version...</comment>


100 Years After Einstein's Relativity, We're Still Just Figuring Gravity Out - <AUTHOR> http://motherboard.vice.com/read/100-years-after-einsteins-relativity-were-still-just-figuring-gravity-out <comment><USER2> Disclaimer: I am not a physicist.

Maybe gravity will turn out to be just a computational artefact. The more energy and states in a volume, the "slower" progression of the [local] system. An effect like this could appear as curved space at energy concentrations. Perhaps GR could be derived from something like this?

<comment><USER3> Ideas like that are often mentioned here when related topics come up but they are almost surly totally wrong. Computing means doing something in several steps and that is - as far as we can tell - absolutely not what the universe is doing. Even if the universe did something like that it would just mean that there is another layer below evolving in a more fundamental way.

Many people seem pretty confused when physicist talk about things like the black hole information paradox. We think that all physical processes are reversible which means that distinct physical states will always remain distinct. If state A and state B could or would evolve into the same state C this assumption would no longer hold because you could no longer tell whether you arrived at state C from state A or B. The laws of physics would not be time reversible.

And this is the sense in which physicist talk about information, the description of the state space. If you throw something into a black hole the only things that remain visible are things like the mass, the charge or the (angular) momentum but you just lost all the details about the thing you threw into the black hole which is a problem for our understanding of physics.

<comment><USER4> > And this is the sense in which physicist talk about information, the > description of the state space. If you throw something into a black hole the > only things that remain visible are things like the mass, the charge or the > (angular) momentum but you just lost all the details about the thing you > threw into the black hole which is a problem for our understanding of > physics.

Why is that a problem? The information could still exist, it'd just be inaccessible...

This seems no different to me than a spaceship going beyond the Hubble horizon.

<comment><USER3> It is a problem in either case - if it really disappears then time reversibility, a real corner stone of physics, is violated, if it does not disappear the problem is that we don't understand (well) where it goes. As far as I know the favourite theory is that the information is contained in the Hawking radiation and I believe to remember that there was a paper not too long ago that showed how to recover one (or a few) (qu)bit(s) from Hawking radiation in a special case. Because time reversibility is such a deep concept it seems likely that we just don't understand well where the information goes, I doubt that many physicists believe the information really disappears.

<comment><USER5> We believe that certain symmetries apply to the laws of physics. For example, we believe that the laws of physics are independent of the observer's position. I mean, look (visualize me stepping sideways here). So we can demonstrate that one pretty easily. And they're independent of rotation. Again, look (visualize me turning 90 degrees here). And exchanging left and right. I mean, look... (visualize me pausing with a confused look on my face as I try to figure out how to exchange left and right).

I can't actually do that experiment. And it turns out, when we got deep enough, we found out that things actually behaved differently (parity non- conservation).

When it comes to time reversal, we can't actually do the experiment, either, so we don't really know whether physics behaves the same when time is reversed. We expect, philosophically, that it will, but we don't _know_. But it seems to me, given how relativity mixes time and space, if physics is not the same with left and right reversed, then it can't be the same with time reversed either.

<comment><USER3> Saying we consider time reversibility true for more or less philosophical reasons seems a bit of an understatement to me. Conserved quantities prevent states differing in at least one conserved quantity from ever evolving into the same state, i.e. conserved quantities partition the phase space and states cannot cross those partition boundaries. This also has to hold for all isolated subsystems. And conserved quantities arise from symmetries like homogeneity and isotropy of space which are pretty solid empirical and experimental facts. It's all interlinked and I imagine it would not be to easy to eliminate time reversibility from the laws of physics without causing some odd consequences.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> PBS Spacetime has some really nice videos about Gravity (Newtonian vs GR) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NblR01hHK6U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NblR01hHK6U)

</comment><comment><USER5> Warning: speculation follows.

If we understand correctly, the universe is about 13.7 billion years old. I recall reading once that there is enough mass (matter plus dark matter) that the Swarzchild Radius of that much mass is approximately 13.7 billion light- years.

What if we're _inside_ a black hole? How would that affect how we interpret what we see at large distances? (For example, does that explain the Hubble redshift? Does it explain dark energy?)

And, if it's true, then what is a black hole? Can you have a black hole inside the Swarzchild radius of another black hole?

</comment><comment><USER7> Honest question. If the concept of dark matter flows from our current understanding of gravity, and gravity is so admittedly poorly understood, how confident are we that dark matter is "a thing"? I know an intuitive sensibility is not the best foundation for an understanding of The Universe, but every time I read about dark matter, I get a very "Aether"-ish vibe. I just imagine comments section in the 2070 version of HN getting a good natured laugh about dark matter.

<comment><USER8> > _gravity is so admittedly poorly understood_

Gravity as a force/phenomena in space on its own is actually very well understood. In fact it's possibly one of the most well understood theories we have in physics because of general relativity. However, at a particle scale we lack the understanding of how gravity would work.

Dark matter is the collective name for whatever "stuff" exists in the universe that we predict it should have, however because it is noninteractive in any way other than exerting a gravitational pull (it accounts for a lot of astrophysical observations that otherwise are bewildering given what we _see_ in the universe). We know it should exist, we don't know what it is and can barely understand its current properties. So indeed, it is quite possible that it might be Aether-ish if we end up finding something else that explains our current observations or a drastic overhaul of how gravity works at large scales (the latter being very unlikely because of how well GR has stood up to experimentation so far).

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Ironically the tattoo in the image is the Newton's equation.

<comment><USER10> Which still is used and works even on cosmological scales.

Relativity is only really useful in certain scenarios, people still calculate the motions of stars and galaxies with Newtonian physics:)

<comment><USER11> Yes, but Newton's equation isn't relevant to the issues discussed in the article.</comment></comment></comment>


Apple is making a show based on Isaac Asimov's 'Foundation' books - <AUTHOR> https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/10/apple-foundation-series/ <comment><USER2> I don't think that's a good idea.

There's not doubt that Asimov was pretty smart and there are a lot of interesting ideas in the Foundation books. However, I don't think that those will translate to the screen very well. Since the books span many centuries, characters come and go and are mostly not very fleshed out or interesting. Asimov is pretty similar to Lem in this regard, who also was much more interested in ideas than people. Of course, a good screenwriter can make up for that, but you can bet that people will be annoyed by all the additional stuff that is not in the book (like in Soderberg's "Solaris", for instance).

So I'm much more thrilled about Amazon developing a series based on Banks' "Consider Phlebas"...

<comment><USER3> Well, Hari Seldon - a recording of him at least - is a constant presence. There are lots of episodic tv series with varying cast. For example, Twilight Zone, Black Glass, etc. I'm sure all of the ages treated in the series can be fleshed out in sufficient detail to make for entertaining tv. As another example, Tolkiens original lore is not exactly ... visual ... but it gained lots of artist output in the decades between the publication of the series and Jackson's movies. Jackson's movies own cinematically almost as much to the artistic output by cadres of fantasy artists as much as to Tolkiens original work.

<comment><AUTHOR> Also, considering the prequels and sequels canon, there is R. Daneel who, being older than the Galactic Empire (and, presumably, among its architects), is certainly one of the most interesting characters in science fiction.

<comment><USER4> That goes back to a whole other series of books and small stories that many now consider part of that whole universe.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I've been disappointed by nearly every film adaptation of Asimov novels. _I, Robot_ and _Bicentennial Man_ had big budgets, but seemed like they were written by people who simply didn't like Asimov at all and wanted nothing to do with the kinds of stories he told.

So, I am extremely pessimistic, even though I would like to be excited about this news. The team behind it also leaves me feeling ambivalent. On one hand, it's a guy who has just made superhero movies (just the sort that would I would expect to destroy a thinky story like _Foundation_ ) but also the guy who made _The Sarah Connor Chronicles_ , which was actually pretty good (though rarely as smart/deep as the cast deserved; Lena Heady, in particular).

I love that scifi TV and film is seeing such a resurgence, but I sure do hate to see my favorites get butchered.

<comment><USER6> I felt that the Will Smith movie was pretty good and true to Asimov's stories. There is a common theme in Asimov's stories that he exploits loopholes in the interpretation of the 3 laws. I robot the movie did that pretty faithfully. It also hinted towards the advent of a robot like R Daneel, who would see beyond the 3 laws.

The movie didn't adapt any particular book or short story, but that doesn't mean it didn't try to be faithful to Asimov.

<comment><USER7> The _I, Robot_ script started out as something entirely unrelated, and some minor tweaks were made to "Asmovify" it after they got the rights for the _I, Robot_ name.

In all of Asimov's robot short stories (including _I, Robot_ ), there was only one instance of a robot that violated the Three Laws. That's far from a common theme...

Yes, there was the 0th Law in Robots and Empire (that later appears in the Foundation prequels), but that is a far more nuanced concept than the ideas in the _I, Robot_ movie, where robots ran around killing and injuring humans indiscriminately.

<comment><USER6> > In all of Asimov's robot short stories (including I, Robot), there was only > one instance of a robot that violated the Three Laws.

However, in _every single story_ , the robot(s) found a loophole in the laws that resulted in going against the spirit of the laws. It's true that the movie showed a very crude version vs the very nuanced take in the stories. But I attribute that to the medium of film making itself.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Well they certainly won't have to worry about running out of source material...

I really hope this is good but they need to go full game of thrones in terms of scope and adherence to the source material. I'm so tired of seeing "Based on a story by Philip K Dick" and then basically seeing stereotypical sci-fi with a romance plot thrown in and any trace of the original message of the story removed.

</comment><comment><USER9> For the record: HBO was apparently supposed to do this a couple years ago [1].

I wonder how well the Foundation books will translate to the screen. Given the segmented format of the first three Foundation novels, it almost seems like a mockumentary-style exposition would be necessary (which could preserve things like the cool _Encyclopedia Galactica_ quote epigraphs).

[1] [http://www.player.one/foundation-tv-show-whatever- happened-h...](http://www.player.one/foundation-tv-show-whatever-happened- hbos-foundation-series-adaptation-546011)

<comment><USER10> I have it a bit mixed up in my head, but yeah, Sony announced they would do one abandoned it, and then HBO bought it and announced it and abandoned it. So this would be the third step (but I seem to have a memory of that this has been going on a lot longer).

[https://hbowatch.com/hbo-acquires-asimovs-foundation- series-...](https://hbowatch.com/hbo-acquires-asimovs-foundation-series- rights/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I think one thing that is missing from modern Hollywood sci-fi is the feeling of the vastness and emptyness of space. Foundation certainly had that. It seems like everywhere they go in new sci-fi is crowded. Maybe this is because the overcrowded eco-doom dystopia trope is so deeply embedded in our culture recently or it could be because there's too much temptation to use CGI to create baroque environments.

<comment><USER12> I'm confused. Once you develop technology to travel to a bunch of different star-systems in a lifetime, space isn't so "vast" anymore.

<comment><USER13> In foundation, the "vastness" came from the fact that humanity has colonized thousands if not hundreds of thousands of planets, to a point where the location of the "origin" of humanity(Earth) and first colonies became lost to history and myths. When the plot revolves around finding this mythical and ancient "Earth" planet, one of the issues is that it would take them thousands of years to visit every inhabited solar system in our galaxy, and that's assuming that the records indicating their positions were accurate. In that way, yes, you could "warp" from one system to another in days, but the galaxy is still incredibly vast and largely unknown. It's just like right now you could hop on a plane and reach pretty much any point on this planet within say 72 hours, but it's still an incredibly vast place and if you were looking for something it's inconceivable you could visit every city on Earth to find it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> The Foundation could use modernization. The "big ideas" are still interesting, but the nuts and bolts of putting characters in a world to act out a story has them inadvertently soaked in late 1940's United States culture.

I have failed to interest young people in the book, they seem to be put off by virtually all of the characters being cigar or pipe smoking men with females relegated to the secretarial positions where they are summoned by the very modern push button on a desk. I think there is also the very modern push button on the floor of the office which closes the door.

As a story it now suffers from what to modern readers are inadvertent anachronisms. Asimov seems to have meant to write _" Here we are, maybe 15 minutes in the future and off we go into the stars and centuries beyond!"_, instead we've got _" Once society regresses to a state which oppresses half the population and is reduced to primitive pre-electronic technology we can finally get on with a grand future!"_

A TV series which starts 15 minutes in _our_ future and presents the same ideas could be a fine framework to fill with characters people care about, but something other than world war two era United States industrialists please.

<comment><USER15> Wasn't the main character who eventually discovers the secrets a the end of the book a female?

Also, was the book really meant to be Utopian in tone? I thought it was just a good space story, one of my most enjoyable reads ever (I read it when I was 23).

<comment><USER14> Yes, there are significant female characters, I think primarily academics which in context are the most important kind of people.

I didn't notice anything off when I first read it, but that was in the 1970s and I was a young studious male. I remembered it as a fun space story and one which glorified researchers and academics as important over generals and politicians… which probably is a lot of the appeal to a certain audience.

I think now it's sort of like watching space movies from the 1950s. Model spaceships swinging along on wires in front of a painting and zippers up the back of the alien monster's skin were the norm then and just ignored, now they are moment ruining features.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Bravo! I have always wondered why people avoided the classic scifi novels. Often many of these where cerebral- more philosophy than action. But as far back as Twilight Zone and Outer Limits showed you could sucessfully film philosophical scfi.

Instead we end up with endless comic book treatments. I dont not want to see the fourth origin story of Spiderman, Superman or Batman. However, I have to concede with a good script and director, these sometimes work.

I wish I could see more more Heinlein on film, e.g. Have Spacesuit, Will Travel and Stranger in a Strange Land. Partial treatments were in The Last Starfigher and Star Treks What of Charlie.

<comment><USER17> Well, the early Foundation books are pretty 'of their time'.

In either the first or second book I seem to remember one of the only female characters is depicted succeeding despite being a woman. Which is a very 50s view.

Same with Heinlein, almost all the women in stranger in a strange land are cringe worthy. They literally play in the pool all day long and are basically sexual playthings for the men.

I read (in the case of Asimov, re-read) both a couple of years ago, they've really aged poorly. While the concepts are cool, much of the stories would have to be rewritten or you'll have some real cognitive dissonance with the female parts.

The later Asimov books and prequels are better as they were written in the 80s. But then they suffer from his retconning of bringing all his series together. I don't know what others think about it as I read most of them before the internet, but I felt it was very contrived.

<comment> yoz-y I have just recently started listening to the audiobook versions (currently at the third) and the absence of any female characters is extremely jarring. The first book only has one and it is "somebody's unhappy wife, who promptly stops complaining when presented with a shiny jewel". Second book at least has one active character.

I agree that the adaptation will have to be adapted a lot in order to be shown today. I wouldn't even mind if they modified the society structure a bit (or a lot) in order to make the initial premise more believable.

<comment><USER18> The reboot of Battlestar Galactica had a female Starbuck and it worked. One of my fav series (I never saw the original).

<comment><USER19> +1, female Starbuck worked great

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> It will end up being a shoot-em-up clone of Star Wars. All the psychological aspects of the books just won't be interesting enough to mask the fact that there is essentially no action or excitement or romance. They'll probably turn Harry Seldon into sort of a Yoda character. Using the precepts of psychohistory, what a few people will think about the film is unpredictable but as a population of movie goers, it will be boring and unintelligible.

</comment><comment><USER21> With all the altered carbon hype on Netflix, I'm surprised nobody attempted to adapt Neuromancer.

<comment><USER22> Think Johnny Mnemonic pretty much sank any other Gibson adaptation - and the Matrix 'borrowed' so much from Neuromancer they'd be very similar.

Though I'd love to see a series based on the Bridge trilogy. And his version of Alien 3 would have been fascinating.

<comment><USER19> Speaking of the Matrix, years ago I stumbled upon The Animatrix which was a surprisingly good set of animated shorts set in the world of the Matrix. My favorite one provided backstory on the robot holocaust (inflicted by humans on their sentient silicon-based slaves), that led to the collapse and reversal found in the main series. Highly recommended!

<comment><USER23> Fun fact: the sequels were _supposed_ to be experienced by first watching _The Animatrix_ , then playing the video game _Enter the Matrix_ , then watching the 2nd and 3rd films. Try it sometime (if you can still find the game): it results in a much better experience.

There's a lot of weirdly introduced characters in the 2nd film especially that leave you thinking "wtf was that there for?" but were actually the continuation / conclusion / intersection of storylines started in one of the animatrix shorts (e.g. the kid) or the game (the other crew).

<comment><USER24> Also The Animatrix soundtrack was fire to my middle school ears. That specific robit revolution one definitely opened me up to anime-style stuff for the first time. There was also a book called "zen and the matrix" or something similar that had a bunch of essays which blew my 12 year old mind. I dropped out of my catholic confirmation course due to it! Forgot how much that influenced me.

<comment><USER23> You should read some Alistair Reynolds (sci-fi) and Daniel Dennett (philosophy). You'd get a lot out of it I think.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> There's something about the Asimov books that make the mundane interesting. I loved the planning aspect of the foundation's millennia long plan. I'm dubious how a book that focuses so much on slow progress progress and averting major crisis will translate to TV.

(And I obviously love the novels, so I'm a bit biased)

<comment><USER26> The novels, especially the first couple, are honestly pretty episodic. Given that they were published as magazine serials before they were books that's not surprising. But each section of the story deals with a self-contained crisis within the context of the arcing narrative, which imo fits pretty nicely into modern tv storytelling.

<comment><USER27> I recently re-read _Foundation_ (only the first) with my kid, and I have to agree. The initial chapters with Hari Seldon, and the later segments with Salvor Hardin and Hober Mallow, fit exactly the mold you mentioned. They even call the episodes "Seldon Crises". The characters, as always with Asimov, are a bit overdrawn, but there are some gems there as well.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> Off topic but it would be nice is sci fi could be made in which not every scene had to be the most amazing, innovative, creative, eye popping visual you've ever seen. Story might become the star then.

<comment><USER29> You may enjoy the adaptations of Stanislaw Lem books, then :-P

Only half-serious, since they pretty much go to the opposite extreme.

<comment><USER22> I love the fact that Solaris skips the whole getting to the space station bit - endless shots of Russian motorways, then suddenly we're there. Contrast to 2001 where getting to the moon is a significant chunk of the film.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> I'm a huge sci fi fan (anyone on HN who is not?) and gave Foundation a go, and found it to have flashes of brilliance but overall to be lifeless and frankly pretty boring.

It's hard to describe but the stories seemed to be not more than sketches without richness or detail, and many of the potentially interesting ideas were never fully explored.

To be fair, there was something strangely appealing about it, and by the end I found I quite liked it even with its flaws - probably because there were some really imaginative concepts underneath (the Foundation I suppose).

<comment><USER30> > It's hard to describe but the stories seemed to be not more than sketches > without richness or detail, and many of the potentially interesting ideas > were never fully explored.

This could probably be attributed to its pulp origins -- it wasn't originally a set of novels, but a bunch of pulp serials that were in the same universe.

<comment> cup-of-tea Yeah. It can't really be compared to something like _Dune_. It's a different format. Although I love _Dune_ , I read most of my science fiction in short story format, so _Foundation_ seems normal to me.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> I thoroughly enjoyed the Asimov Foundation series (all of them, not just the original trilogy) and often wondered why nobody made a film about them. I think it'd be tricky to do them justice (a slow exploratory pace would be good) and hopefully not Hollywood-style like I Robot turned out to be (compared to the book).

I suppose not many people would flock to the cinema for slow scifi though (but then Blade Runner 2049 did alright...)

</comment><comment><USER32> If someone managed to make a lot of cash and success adapting LOTR (for a long time thought to be "impossible" to adapt to big screens) someone can equally adapt Foundation, given a bit of space for fixing quirks and changing a few things here and there. Let's remain skeptical, alright, but this is actually pretty awesome news if true and I certainly hope for the best.

<comment><USER33> I love Foundation but it is dry as hell compared to what most people expect from TV/Movies today.

If they made it like the books, those of us that have read it would probably love it, but I doubt it would be popular.

<comment><USER34> This is my biggest concern about the adaptation. The mathematical influence of psychohistory is very important. Take it away, and the Foundation's expansion seems like chance or manifest destiny.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER35> It seems like fertile ground for a series about psychohistory, that Cambridge Analytica et al have been in the news.

</comment><comment><USER36> If there's any Sci-Fi story that will easily adapt to the screen, its gonna be "Permutation City"

</comment><comment><USER37> Makes sense. Can't wait for the shows based on Cocoa and UIKit.

</comment><comment><USER38> Anyone else feel that now with tracking users to the extend of CA and the user prediction software that it's getting into the realms of Hari Seldon? And not only track what's going to happen, but also shape society with posts timed at the right time, and sent to the right people to nudge society into certain paths. We already see it with what happened to voting.

</comment><comment><USER6> Foundation is my favorite book series ever. I hope they do it justice. However, if they make it exclusive to iTunes I'll torrent it :)

</comment><comment><USER39> Actually I'm waiting for Red Mars trilogy. Yes, it has that teen fiction vibe, yet CGI should be spectacular.

</comment><comment><USER40> I wouldn't exactly bet on this being great, or even good.

But I'm damn happy it's being attempted. Here's hoping I'm surprised! (Pleasantly surprised, I mean.)

</comment><comment><USER41> And yet, the (full) book series isn't available on iBooks. Most likely to distribution and licensing rights. What a future to live in!

</comment><comment><USER42> The Mule should be played by Donald Trump.

<comment><USER43> [https://www.theburningplatform.com/2017/03/27/foundation- and...](https://www.theburningplatform.com/2017/03/27/foundation-and-empire- is-donald-trump-the-mule/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER44> I wonder if you will be able to watch this if you don't use Apple hardware.

<comment><USER45> Well Apple Music is available on Android and you can also access it via iTunes on Windows. Current Apple original video content is accessed via Apple Music (and third party movies via the iTunes store) so it's probably going to be one of those options.

Personally I pay €15 per month for an Apple Music family plan because at the time it was cheaper than Spotify and it works well enough for me. Hopefully Apple's new video services becomes part of that same subscription but with the mess of their iCloud storage options I won't hold my breath.

<comment><USER46> What is the recommended way on a traditional Linux desktop? Apple Music on iTunes on Wine?

(I really enjoy the books, so I would like to experience that adaptation.)

<comment><USER45> I'm sorry, I've no experience with running iTunes on Wine. I suppose you could use a VM.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER47> I'd like Apple to make a new Mac Mini.

They should just spin out what's left of their computing hardware and operating system business, this segment is as vestigial as the appendix to the company now.

</comment><comment><USER48> At least the books aren't offensive in any way so they don't have to be neutered to conform to Apple's standard of family friendly.

</comment><comment><USER49> "Only available if you sell your soul"</comment>