Why remote work is hard and how it can be fixed - <AUTHOR> https://www.newyorker.com/culture/annals-of-inquiry/can-remote-work-be-fixed <comment><USER4> The post-covid "remote work" will be very different from the present day and past WFH.

Right now, WFH is a struggle not because of the "FH" part, but because of "cabin fever" effect of being around everyone all the time, the complexities of avoiding the disease - things which were done by professionals is back to self-run, everything from cleaning to child care.

In the past, I've WFH'd only when I have had a good reason to justify that. This was in the pre-Marissa era @ Yahoo and I was probably one of those people, if you counted VPN time. However, the good reasons which required to be remote are often the opposite of productive - my reason was that my dad was on suicide watch for 4 months.

But with EVERYONE being WFH without choice has changed several people who have held similar opinions in the past about remote work - the managers might still consider the "from home" to be bad, but they might have realized that they can maintain an effective organization, without constantly talking to people in person.

The next wave of this "remote work" revolution will probably not be people working from home, but people choosing to work in an area close enough to home, but far away enough to avoid the internal pressures of pending chores.

Before Covid, my favourite "remote work" location was the SF public library in Potrero & the Burlingame one which even has private offices. Wasn't exactly WFH, but it was remote & great.

<comment><USER5> I've gotten used to WFH but agree that the ideal remote work location is actually a "third-place" \-- non-home non-office location -- like a library or a Starbucks or a shared workspace close to home.

The psychological separation between home and work is so important.

<comment><USER6> That's a matter of habit. The trigger before was space. "I am in the office - work mode on".

In WFH the trigger has to be _time_. We have a hard 9AM start policy, with 12 to 1PM lunch. That puts everyone on the same page and gets rid of the ambiguous "I wonder if anyone else is looking for me right now, and should I be working". You should absolutely know. If people don't respect it, it's their problem, but you should not be responding to people at 7AM or 9PM unless the sky is falling. No different from how it was before. This lack of boundaries is what really exhausts people.

Also, create a separate account on your computer for work. You should do that anyway to avoid screen share mishaps (no one wants to see your personal bookmarks and history).

At end of day, log out, killing slack notifications and email, and log into your work-free personal account. You are done for the day.

<comment><USER7> I don't have a home _office_, an actual area dedicated to doing just work stuff, with hardware dedicated only for work stuff.

Working remotely probably should include that.

<comment><USER8> I have a personal desk with two monitors and a laptop arm... I set up my desk with a KVM (just a USB switcher) for the keyboard and mouse and two HDMI switchers.

Three clicks and all of my IO is routed to the work laptop and that allows me to separate cleanly from work. Before work-mode is engaged, I put my Windows workstation to sleep and I bring it out of sleep right after switching all of my IO back.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> A simple answer is: working from home requires the ability to hold yourself accountable for your productivity to a much greater extent than if you were in an office. Yes, working at home is a different setting, with different distractions, but, based on my experience, there are a lot of extra motivators present in an office, like peer pressure, justifying the commute, being held accountable for the perception of working, contribution recognition, easy socializing, etc.

For better or worse, none of those are as impactful when working from home and the worker is forced to fuel their productivity themself.

I left my job a year ago to work on my own projects full-time and it took several months for me to find ways to really motivate myself to be consistently productive

<comment><USER10> It also requires you to hold others accountable to a much greater extent. Part of what drove me away from remote work was the additional effort required to get people to respond to anything. When you were remote, you were invisible.

<comment><USER11> I have also found that many people have problems with async/written communication or even just paying attention to email or tasks. It is related to their general competence, communication skills and habits, and level of interest.

It is a big problem.

For me if they can't handle git comments or slack then they can usually manage to show up for a phone call. And in my projects that is generally not the best, but it is good enough to be able to keep projects moving forward.

If it was a programmer rather than manager or client who did not reply to chat/email or handle git properly, in my opinion there is no excuse and that is a fireable offense. I mean, it should be fireable for managers and clients too but sometimes keeping the gig seems worth it.

<comment><USER12> You expect people to respond to git comments?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> I thought this was a pretty fair article that rightly addressed some of the major structural issues with remote work as it currently is set up. I've worked remotely for ~5 years and absolutely love it but think there need to be much larger corporate culture changes needed, along with technologies, to make it a sustainable trend for 30%+ of a modern workforce.

I do also wonder if there might be some wrong lessons taken from this time. This isn't just "working from home" it's "working from home during a global health crisis." Schools are closed, people we know are dying, lockdowns, there's fear and uncertainty to a degree I hadn't before seen in my adult life ... so yeah, it's going to have an impact on our workflows.

Like any change, it's always going to be hardest for large orgs who have to change vs those who have it built-in from the beginning.

</comment><comment><USER14> One of the most interesting aspects of the remote work discussion is just how emotional a topic it is for many people – on both sides. I've seen die-hards in both the pro-office and pro-remote camps, seemingly without a clear pattern.

This is exacerbated by the fact that people often want to convert others to their side. If you're pro-remote, going all-remote creates an even playing field. If you're pro-office, having everyone in the office creates the collaborative environment that you prefer. Managing these opposing viewpoints in a productive way will be an interesting leadership challenge for many teams.

<comment><USER15> One aspect of this is that introverts have been living in an world designed maximally for the liking and benefit of extroverts and now the tables have turned completely. It's one of those situations where you have a privilege you weren't aware of, and then lost it, so it feels like an assault.

To any extroverts really struggling, I get it. I understand how difficult it must be. I mean this with no ill intentions at all, but I've felt the way you're feeling my whole working life, working in an environment not suited to my personality at all. I hope you too can have empathy for the people on the other side who have had to live in your world.

<comment><USER16> Will you stop it with the "oh no extroverts" stuff? I am definitely an extrovert, and I greatly prefer working from home. With only a few days here and there (certainly not necessarily every week) to meet up with people face to face. I am more productive like this, and much happier.

Being an extrovert does not mean that you need or enjoy the company of any people any time.

<comment><USER17> And the binary gradations generally.

I'm not even sure which I am. I like being on stage, going to events, etc. But I have also written books (which take a lot of private research/writing time) and I definitely don't naturally gravitate towards engaging in conversation with people I don't know.

I don't miss an office which I haven't really worked in for a while but I miss events and so forth a great deal.

<comment><USER18> For me, I've always liked working in an office, but I've always hated, what should I call it - drama/politics/whatever?

I've worked in such wierd places over the years. For example, if you had an office of 100 people, 10 were on your team, I would probably not like 2 of the people on my team and 20 in the office.

Most of the time, this is not a problem. However, you get around people that you really like and tell a joke, or you just say something a bit freely - <USER2> all of a sudden, you now have people that don't like you. (The specific office situation I'm thinking of had an average of salary of $15k at the time - <USER3> our group probably had an average of $150k at the time).

It was tough. I don't think it was a good idea overall either. I've seen other situations like it as well.

I don't like working from at home. But I hate dealing with that kind of bullshit.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Most of those I know that are hardcore office are:

* in a middle management position

* have a home setting that doesn't work for WFH (kids, space, personality, etc)

* have never worked from home over an extended period of time but are still opinionated

WFH today vs. pre-coronavirus is drastically different. Grocery shopping has changed, working out options have changed, socializing. I've noticed that it's been wonderful having my wife here. We can get delivery or curbside pick up for groceries. We can focus, eat healthy and take meaningful breaks.

Note: lots of anti-WFH articles recently. Commercial real-estate backed articles? ;)

</comment><comment><USER20> Article upholds author of "4 Hour Work Week" as an example of an ultra-remote worker. Someone who made it rich selling supplements of questionable benefit and with much self promotion may not be the best anecdote for remote workers.

<comment><USER21> > selling supplements of questionable benefit

Any sources? i tried to google but i'm only finding stuff about the supplements he takes, nothing about history of selling them himself.

<comment><USER22> Read the book if you haven't, it's all in there. You'll get much more benefit than finding out about the supplements I suspect. I recall something about him introducing himself to people as a drug dealer when asked what he did for a living.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> One thing that a lot of people miss in the whole "Work from Home" discussion is the fact that not everyone has the ability, talent, skills and experience to be able to work from home. It is the hard truth and lot of us don't want to admit that. It is extremely hard to work from home and stay accountable, productive and not to mention focussed. It is just very hard. Even for senior/experienced folks. It is not a one size fits all solution. If you are junior who needs a lot of guidance and help on the job, WFH is even worse.

<comment><USER24> I'm terrible at it! For years, I've organised a day a week to work outside the office and outside the home. I know I need a planned task saved for that day, and I need physical separation. Covid is a giant pain in the ass and I hate it because it makes that "not in office" time no longer special and focused/effective. It's just one huge slog of Slack, Zoom and mail hell.

<comment><USER25> You know you can disable notifications right? That gives you the same peace of mind. If it's someone important you just tell them hey, I'm in the middle of x, I'll get back to you at y time. Most bosses respect healthy boundaries, and if they don't that's usually a red flag.

Not everything needs to be responded to right away, my mind was blown when I first saw an eisenhower matrix. I encourage you to check out this! [https://www.google.com/search?q=eisenhower+matrix](https://www.google.com/search?q=eisenhower+matrix)

<comment><USER17> Way too many people enable way too many notifications on all sorts of platforms, which is admittedly the default. (And way too many people expect people to always be instantly available when they send a message/chat/email/phone call.) I'm actually pretty reachable during the workday. But maybe because I worked for the first part of my career in a world where I _wasn 't_ reachable if I wasn't sitting at my desk, I'm not terribly sympathetic to those who feel they need to reach me instantly.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> The guys on our team who have been working together in the office for a while are continuing to work together online. No Problem. The two new guys we hired get little help and they're drowning I suspect. Its just too difficult to help them. If anyone has success with onboarding new people remotely I'm interested in hearing tips.

<comment><USER27> My current thinking is to schedule daily 1:1s at first. As they get their feet under them, scale it back to a few times a week, then once a week.

If the onus is on the new team member to ask for help when they need it, they'll have to figure out what difficulty and quantity of questions are considered appropriate. That's pretty stressful to try to figure out remotely. Much easier for them to have a senior person looking them in the face and asking "How'd it go yesterday? What questions can I answer for you this morning?"

<comment><USER28> Wow, you've hit the nail on the head about what I need as I continue onboarding on to a new team at work. I was shuffled around right when our state shut down. Indeed, figuring out how and when to ask what questions has been exceedingly difficult. It's super hard to ask for time with people I haven't even met properly.

<comment><USER29> Ugh, I feel for you. New teams are complex in the best of times... what has worked for you in finding out those questions/limits?

When in office, there is a lot of unstructured conversations. I have found that having 2 hour blocks of video conf 'coworking' do help a lot there in terms of surfacing questions in an unprompted and organic way.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER30> I 'm surveying people from zoom calls to figure out the trend. So far, here in europe, it seems that people who live in small apartments (e.g. Berlin) prefer to go back to the office. People who have larger houses, or access to outdoors have stayed home even if they could go to the office.

If enough people stay back home after covid, remote work will be a self- accelerating trend: if enough people are not at the office , the office is boring and empty, and home becomes more fun.

<comment><USER17> >remote work will be a self-accelerating trend

I've been (unofficially) mostly remote--to greater or lesser degrees depending on what I'm working on--for quite a few years now. And you make a good point.

I have a relatively convenient local office. But most of the people I work with regularly aren't in that office, mostly work from home themselves, are on calls all day, or are traveling. I can go into the office and there's a good chance I basically won't see anyone I know. (The company has also grown a lot.)

If I could go in a day or two a week and bump into a lot of people I know/maybe have lunch with them/etc. I'd be perfectly happy to go in a day or two a week. But the reality is that I'd go in, grab a random desk, work and head back home. I can do that in my home office without a 1 hour roundtrip commute.

And layer on top of that, going into the office is going to be a weird and awkward situation for an extended period of time. I certainly don't expect to be in an office even for a meeting for the rest of this year and very possibly an extended period of time beyond that.

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> I love to have the ability to work from home, but I'm gonna be honest with myself - I love the social aspect of work. Maybe it's easier when you have great colleagues, but it's been a very nice breath of fresh air to come back to the office, for that reason alone.

(And unfortunately, for many people, work is pretty much the only place where they get to socialize. I've seen this with older workers. After they retire, they still pop by on a regular basis, just to talk and see how things are going)

</comment><comment><USER25> There's a lot of discussion in this thread, but I think it all comes down to the fact that we are all individuals with individual preferences. What is comfortable for you, may not be for your coworker. Great companies try to reconcile those differences with proper communications channels in place, bad companies try to exert control over something they don't understand.

<comment><USER32> Many also try to assert control over things they fear.

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> Remote work is changing the world with its impact and especially due to Covid-19 people are forced to work from home. Some say they have got higher productivity and some say they have got the lowest!

What are your thoughts? Will you prefer working from home or let your team work from home?

<comment><USER34> This depends on so many factors: home environment, office environment, commuting, personal preferences...

My personal preference is to work from home, even though I have a really nice office environment. It's quieter, and I don't have to commute, but that's just me. I have colleagues who can't wait to get back into the office.

What I hope is that managers get more flexible, now that they've seen that remote working is a realistic option.

</comment></comment><comment><USER35> So there is no doubt that the current WFH situation has decreased productivity in general at the large tech giant I work at. It is definitely not across the board, some teams have adapted to it better than others. Some teams are having issues holding team members accountable in this remote based environment. On these teams it is easy for some team members to not pull their weight and severely impact productivity.

I am sure a lot of it is just dealing with covid in general. This is not your average WFH situation. Also it will take time to adjust and I do believe that how projects and teams are managed has to change significantly based on all remote workers.

</comment><comment><USER36> I've been working remotely and from home for over five years now. I think the hardest thing for me about working remotely is dealing with differences in the timezones of my colleagues and the demands that puts on me and balancing that with non-work life. I think if you can get your work / life balance figured out and enforce decent hours, working remotely can be a massively positive thing for your life.

</comment><comment><USER37> Why is it hard?

Because it's a huge life transition for most people and it's happening during one of the most stressful times in history.

</comment><comment><USER38> I love the cozy warm fuzzies that 'face-to-face bonding' bring up. I'm sure those same managers pushing for that bonding would be just as sensitive and show just as much concern for the team when they 'reorganize' and layoff part of the team.

</comment><comment><USER39> this must be the 3rd fear mongering "remote work" article that has hit the front page today... employers must really be missing us :)

<comment><USER40> Or someone has a bunch of money invested in commercial REITs and is looking at losing it...

<comment><USER41> I imagine it must be terrifying to be a commercial property owner while people are on the verge of working out they don't need your service.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER42> The article reminded me how little I understand (non-secreterial) white collar work.

</comment><comment><USER30> Reads like something Krugman could have written

<comment><USER43> Is that good or bad?

<comment><USER44> "By 2005 or so, it will become clear that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's." -Paul Krugman

<comment><USER43> The circles I follow like to rag on him as someone whose opinion keeps being given weight despite being wrong on basically every prediction he's ever made.

Was just curious if that's what the commentor was implying or not.

<comment><USER45> > basically every prediction

[https://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/18/opinion/things-to- come.ht...](https://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/18/opinion/things-to-come.html) [https://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/27/opinion/running-out-of- bu...](https://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/27/opinion/running-out-of-bubbles.html) [https://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/29/opinion/29krugman.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/29/opinion/29krugman.html) [https://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/30/opinion/30krugman.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/30/opinion/30krugman.html)

<comment><USER46> Wow, that 2005 column is prescient. I'd never read it before, and I'm a fan of Krugman.</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


FT Web-based app more popular than app sold in Apple store - <AUTHOR> http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/22/us-ft-idUSTRE78L49Q20110922

<comment><USER2> Isn't that because the web-based app can be read on many more devices, such as Windows Phone, BlackBerry, Android, Nokia, etc?</comment>


Fast tracking the global adoption of electric vehicles - <AUTHOR> https://www.activium.app <comment><AUTHOR> Hi everyone, I'm Husam from Maoev, there is approx. 1 billion fossil fuel cars running on our planet. We are trying to help accelerate the transition to electric vehicle by making long range practical EVs accessible to more people.

Building electric cars alone will not reduce our transportation emissions fast enough. We are building Maoev to make it practical and cost effective for fossil fuel car owners to switch to electric cars.

You can email me at: husam[at]activium[dot]com if you have any questions.</comment>


CMU 15-721 (Spring 2016) Database Systems - <AUTHOR> http://15721.courses.cs.cmu.edu/spring2016/schedule.html <comment><USER2> Professors like Andy Pavlo are probably the best thing to happen in the Database area. Existing DBMS courses are very outdated and most profs teaching them lack passion. It's always the same boring exercises from the "cow" textbook. In his words, he's "trill as fuck"

</comment><comment><USER3> From the syllabus:

" Trigger Warning: The material presented in this lecture uses explicit language and discusses certain situations in database management systems that may be triggering to some students."

<comment><USER4> So sad that they are forced to put such "warnings" on this kind of courses.

<comment><USER5> I guess people signing up for a database course should expect triggers to feature at some point

<comment><USER6> If they have to be warned about triggers what are they going to do when they see a multi-page stored procedure :P

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Awesome, I was just looking for a course in database systems.

It's a pity that Jennifer Widom's db-class isn't offered anymore in a classical manner (I don't like self-paced minicourses).

EDIT: Oh, it's a course in database systems internals, not basics... Does anyone know of a good introductory course in databases ?

<comment><USER8> Stanford had a great Introduction to Databases MOOC on Coursera a few years back. I don't think it's still available on Coursera but you can still take the self paced course directly from the Stanford website.

[https://lagunita.stanford.edu/courses/DB/2014/SelfPaced/abou...](https://lagunita.stanford.edu/courses/DB/2014/SelfPaced/about)

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Thanks for posting OP, can someone comment on how this compares to mit 6.830 (hopefully someone who has taken both the courses :)) [http://db.csail.mit.edu/6.830/sched.html](http://db.csail.mit.edu/6.830/sched.html) [http://db.csail.mit.edu/6.830/notes.html](http://db.csail.mit.edu/6.830/notes.html)

For folks interested there's another implementation specific db course [https://web.stanford.edu/class/cs346/2015/](https://web.stanford.edu/class/cs346/2015/) although the lectures are not on youtube

<comment><USER10> This (CMU Course) is a graduate research-oriented course, with lots of research papers as required reading.

6.830 is a standard introductory database course (although somewhat more advanced than other introductory database courses like Stanford CS245, or Berkeley CS186).

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Nicely designed pages, especially the Schedule one. 1996-clean, but with make- up ...

Also got curious about the 'Piazza' top link, looks like an external forum system: [https://piazza.com/cmu/spring2016/15721/home](https://piazza.com/cmu/spring2016/15721/home) (49 students, 273 posts, 3 staff, but nothing much public)

<comment><USER12> Yep, piazza is widely used nowadays in universities. A board where students can post questions and receive answers from other students, TAs, and instructors. Not meant to be public.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> By taking this course and referring others to it you're directly supporting CMU - and indirectly supporting CMU's activities related to breaking the Internet for the FBI/US:

[https://www.google.com/search?q=CMU+TOR](https://www.google.com/search?q=CMU+TOR)

<comment><USER14> CMU SEI is more or less a separate institution that was founded with government money. Very little relation to the workings of the school, but it's still unfortunate that the work was done under the CMU name.

<comment><USER15> The SEI is located like a half-mile from the main part of the campus of the school (it's basically on the campus of University of Pittsburgh). Some of the professors in the CS department might work under SEI grants, but yeah, the SEI is basically an independent research organization that is heavily government- funded (like almost every research institution). They do a lot of non-evil things too, especially related to the challenges of building and maintaining extremely large applications (and the organizations that build and maintain them).

Fun fact; their building was used as a police station in The Dark Knight Returns.</comment></comment></comment>


Obama 'not told of Merkel phone bugging' - <AUTHOR> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24698142

<comment><USER2> The title (" _Obama_ 'not told..") doesn't match the contest of the article:

"NSA spokeswoman Vanee Vines: ' _[General] Alexander did not discuss with President Obama in 2010_ an alleged foreign intelligence operation involving German Chancellor Merkel, _nor has he ever discussed_ alleged operations involving Chancellor Merkel, news reports claiming otherwise are not true.'

BBC: _The statement does not make it clear whether the president was informed of the bugging operation by other means._ "

Emphasis mine: the statement as published there involves only "Gen. Alexander's discussions." Well done, spokespersons' statement and media's titles.

<comment><USER3> It's too bad they can't issue a blanket denial. "The President did NOT have a conversation about this topic on this date in time with this specific person." Worst denial ever.

Reminds me of Bill Clinton trying to parse the word "is" to only mean present tense, not past tense.

<comment><USER4> When you're battling with semantics to skirt by underlying truths and morals, you should notice there's a problem. Maybe I'm alone in this sentiment however.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Apparently this isn't a surprise to most within the intelligence community [1].

"France spies on the US just as the US spies on France, the former head of France's counter-espionage and counter-terrorism agency said Friday, commenting on reports that the US National Security Agency (NSA) recorded millions of French telephone calls.

Bernard Squarcini, head of the Direction Centrale du Renseignement Intérieur (DCRI) intelligence service until last year, told French daily Le Figaro he was "astonished" when Prime Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault said he was "deeply shocked" by the claims.

"I am amazed by such disconcerting naiveté," he said in the interview. "You'd almost think our politicians don't bother to read the reports they get from the intelligence services.""

[1] [http://www.france24.com/en/20131024-nsa-france-spying- squarc...](http://www.france24.com/en/20131024-nsa-france-spying-squarcini- dcri-hollande-ayrault-merkel-usa-obama)

<comment><USER6> Some politicians probably are simply naive; those who aren't instead have to put up some theatre to pretend to the voters they didn't know what is going on.

<comment><USER7> May be. But we saw what Hoover running the FBI turned into. It certainly seems like it is time to take a close look at what "government agencies" are up to and start holding them accountable to the population at large.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Ms. Merkel can always give Snowden permanent asylum. Or, for that matter, any of the EU countries who are so upset about all this spying. What's stopping them?

Put your money where your mouth is: if you think Snowden's revelations are real and show egregious conduct on the part of the NSA, then give him asylum!

<comment><USER9> Even if that doesn't happen straight-away, Snowden will likely find that fairly easy to achieve once this scandal dies down a bit.

<comment><USER10> On what basis ? Snowden committed a crime and under existing extradition treaties would be sent back to the US.

Diplomatic incidents happen all the time. It doesn't affect the law.

<comment><USER9> Diplomatic incidents are resolved diplomatically. Numerous spies/traitors/whistle-blowers/revolutionaries for numerous countries are now living normal lives across the world despite having being exposed.

Snowden has no chance of living in the US ever again, but that doesn't mean that he couldn't have a life elsewhere.

The fact that heads of government are now effectively gathering on Snowden's side improves his chances that one or another of them will approve asylum status for him, although it won't happen in a hurry.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> Typical argument. Obama knows nothing if there's any possibility that it could harm him. How many times will they use this argument.

Ultimately, he's commander in chief, and if we use the same approach as applied against Bush, then Obama is responsible.

<comment><USER12> Steve Jobs said it pretty well for corporate VPs, it probably should apply to the President:

One such lesson could be called the "Difference Between the Janitor and the Vice President," and it's a sermon Jobs delivers every time an executive reaches the VP level. Jobs imagines his garbage regularly not being emptied in his office, and when he asks the janitor why, he gets an excuse: The locks have been changed, and the janitor doesn't have a key. This is an acceptable excuse coming from someone who empties trash bins for a living. The janitor gets to explain why something went wrong. Senior people do not. "When you're the janitor," Jobs has repeatedly told incoming VPs, "reasons matter." He continues: "Somewhere between the janitor and the CEO, reasons stop mattering." That "Rubicon," he has said, "is crossed when you become a VP."

[http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/08/25/how-apple-works- insid...](http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/08/25/how-apple-works-inside-the- worlds-biggest-startup/)

<comment><USER13> [http://www.trumanlibrary.org/buckstop.htm](http://www.trumanlibrary.org/buckstop.htm)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Not sure what is worse: that Obama knew since 2010 that Merkel (and other allied countries leaders) was being spied, or that he had no clue of what the NSA were doing.

If he don't know what the government is doing, who is in charge then?

<comment><USER15> I suppose the NSA is in charge. Presidents change all the time. High NSA officials could stay for decades. What's more, when somebody becomes President, they probably have amassed enough confidential information on that person to make sure that the NSA institutional interests are protected. (Puts tin-foil-hat of again)

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> So Obama is walking on the same path as India's PM Dr. Manmohan Singh who is not aware of anything worth knowing.

I was once caught in some ordinary crime. I plead not guilty saying I was not aware of the law. Judge told me that ignorance of law is not an argument court can accept. Well, it was about about justice, law and constitution. I guess all this surveillance business does not come under any of those.

</comment><comment><USER17> Perhaps the rest of the world should take a cue from America -- direct diplomacy is dead. Cloak and dagger methods are now more consistent and accurate than engaging another nation directly through the departments of foreign affairs.

The American President and the American State Department are hopeless and useless now.

</comment><comment><USER18> Plausible deniability in a nutshell.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plausible_deniability](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plausible_deniability)

</comment><comment><USER19> Just as in Casablanca - "I am shocked — shocked — to find that gambling is going on in here!"

<comment><USER6> A clip of the scene in question: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Gf8NK1WAOc](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Gf8NK1WAOc)

</comment></comment><comment><USER20> "believe nothing until it has been officially denied"

</comment><comment><USER21> Let's assume Obama had no idea, nay, not even a clue that Merkel was being spied on. What should the actions of the US be?

 _Good Foreign Policy_ : Call for an investigation with a reputable committee, and actually change laws or procedures, that make this action, or the discovery of this action impossible to happen going forward.

 _Bad Foreign Policy_ : Apologize to the leader of the nation, offer no solutions, and attempt to sideline the dramatic news.

Now instead of what should be the actions of the US in this situation, what do you think they will actually do?

</comment><comment><USER22> I don't buy it.

[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/104...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/10407282/Barack- Obama-approved-tapping-Angela-Merkels-phone-3-years-ago.html)

Plus they have a frigging NSA base in Berlin:

[http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/cover-story- how-...](http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/cover-story-how-nsa- spied-on-merkel-cell-phone-from-berlin-embassy-a-930205.html)

And if it were true, it may actually be worse. How can Obama still claim "relax people, no abuses have happened" with one corner of the mouth, and then with the other say "oh, well I didn't know about these!"

Same goes for their continuous claim that NSA is run like a very tight ship and it's audited thoroughly, yet they didn't know what Snowden took for _months_ , and some of the internal abuses were found out _years_ later, by the employees _own confessions_. Yeah, sounds like an air-tight auditing system to me, too.

</comment><comment><USER23> Others are claiming that he did in fact know about it for years:

[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/104...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/10407282/Barack- Obama-approved-tapping-Angela-Merkels-phone-3-years-ago.html)</comment>


Show HN: Tool to Test Django Migrations - <AUTHOR> https://sobolevn.me/2019/10/testing-django-migrations <comment><USER2> A few comments:

\- Unclear what exactly caused the migration to break, was it simply the is_clean field not getting set? Would this have been prevented with stricter column constraints on the db?

\- The rollback failed to solve the problem. In my experience, rollbacks are often problematic and it's better to regard fixing a broken database chance as another migration ("forward" rather than "backward" if you will)

\- The test code feels quite clumsy (for instance, having to load old state). The testing also feels less rigorous than directly checking the resulting schema matches the intended state. I'm an advocate of a diff-based approach that directly compares schemas at a database level (see: [https://djrobstep.com/talks/your-migrations-are-bad-and- you-...](https://djrobstep.com/talks/your-migrations-are-bad-and-you-should- feel-bad)). What do you think?

\- Another advantage of not using django-style migrations, is that if you need to make urgent changes to solve a downtime issue (for instance, a quick "update" query), you can freely do that outside the concept of a prepared migration if necessary, without any need to go and add that history back into the migration chain later (because there is no history beyond current version and target version).</comment>


Ask HN: How do you track individually targeted emails? - <AUTHOR>

There are many products to manage lists and API-driven transactional emails, but nothing that combines the 2 where each email is customized to the receiver with some general templating.<p>How do you track whether such an email is opened or clicked on? <comment><USER2> Have you looked at Mailgun? (YC alum, now Rackspace)

(disclaimer: I did a guest blog post for them, but that was a result of me being a happy customer before they even contacted me)

They have lists, webhooks/reporting for tracking opens and clicks, HTML support, unsub notifications, etc. All accessible via the API. Poke around the docs and trial, sounds like it could be what you're looking for.

</comment><comment><USER3> Seems like Toutapp ( <http://toutapp.com> ) solves your problem! :)

<comment><AUTHOR> Thanks! Toutapp seems to be the only significant player in the space which seems odd given their $30/month charge.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Have you looked at ClickMeter? I wonder if this kind of functionality is harder to find because it may be harder to monetize.

<comment><AUTHOR> ClickMeter is a start, but it requires adding the link into your email yourself which is a friction point for non-tech people.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: What antivirus software do you use? - <AUTHOR> Recently I got my hands on a new laptop and during the initiation process, I got to the part of which antivirus software to use. Which one do you use and why? Have you considered or tried any open source ones as ClamAV or Open AntiVirus Project? <comment><USER2> Linux.

In all seriousness though: without knowing anything about state of the art AV software I question how effective even big brand software is without compromising your own operating system integrity these days.

Whenever I encountered cases of an infected system in the last 5 years or so it was nothing regular AV software could have caught anyway. Specific tools had to be downloaded for removal and if you put this in contrast to the annoying number of false positives you start to question the effectiveness. I imagine all of this is of course highly subjective.

</comment><comment><USER3> I typically ride bare. AV software just doesn't feel good.

</comment><comment><USER4> I've mixed feelings about AV. It's very disruptive and most really only work well with Windows (Mac and Linux are second-class citizens for most products). That said, over the past year I've helped my father get rid of malware on his mac twice. And at work, we've seen AV block browser-based bitcoin miners. And yet our AV has also caused computers to be unable to boot after automatic upgrades.

If you want to run AV, check if your OS already has one (Windows Defender is standard on Windows and Mac has its own AV product and firewall). Turn those on. Avoid ClamAV, it has a lot of false positives, usually on something important.

</comment><comment><USER5> Malwarebytes Anti Malware (MBAM). It is exceptional for a free tool. Windows Defender is too simplistic for my liking, with a very small filter list.

That being said, I run ComboFix + ADWCleaner + RKill + JunkwareRemovalTool every few weeks to remove any malware that may have creeped in.

</comment><comment><USER6> Don't use AV because it's slow and annoying. But I do use sandboxie (1) for untested programs and that takes care of most of the problems.

(1) [https://www.sandboxie.com](https://www.sandboxie.com)

</comment><comment><USER7> Depends on usage. Going to browse sketchy websites all day? Probably need something.

Just doing dev work on Linux and also _Thinking before clicking_ (TM)? Probably _CommonSense2018_ (C) will be enough.

Keep in mind that AV software also runs as very high authority on a system, and they all had serious vulnerabilities, annoying popups, etc.

A lying DNS + IP blacklist could also help protect you. see for UNIX-like systems e.g. [https://gitlab.com/moviuro/moviuro.bin/blob/master/blackhole](https://gitlab.com/moviuro/moviuro.bin/blob/master/blackhole) & [https://gitlab.com/moviuro/moviuro.bin/blob/master/lie-to- me](https://gitlab.com/moviuro/moviuro.bin/blob/master/lie-to-me)

</comment><comment><USER8> Windows 10 comes with defender which is sufficient for my needs.

</comment><comment><USER9> When in the US or EU : Kaspersky or 360. When in China: Mcafee or F-Secure. Etc.

All big commercial names are sufficient; just not at keeping nation states out of your machine.

</comment><comment><USER10> Nothing on macOS -- just the XProtect stuff that comes as part of macOS.

Nothing on Windows 10 -- Just Defender, which comes as part of Windows 10.

</comment><comment><USER11> Since switched to Mac I assume macOS is protecting me. I have not had any issues for years.

</comment><comment><USER12> I don't use any myself, but if my friends ask me I recommend them Kaspersky. Seems to be working very well for them.

</comment><comment><USER13> Windows Defender.

</comment><comment><USER14> I am using Sophos

</comment><comment><USER15> ChromeOS</comment>


How to Find Out If Your Facebook Data Was Stolen by Cambridge Analytica - <AUTHOR> https://gizmodo.com/how-to-check-if-your-facebook-data-was-stolen-by-cambri-1825100272 <comment><AUTHOR> I'm really curious if anyone has the notification described here that their data was stolen.

(Unfortunately?) I am in the majority with no difference.</comment>


Ask HN: Should online communities incentivize human interaction - <AUTHOR> I'm interested in how we can design online communities to better reinforce and facilitate the human experience which digital connectedness often makes us miss out on. An obvious answer is to encourage more real world, face to face interaction. But there's many questions still on how best to do this.
I wonder specifically, what are the aspects of physical meetups that we enjoy and that keep us coming back.
How can we use technology to remove some of the work in facilitating these, and make us less lonely.
I reckon the HN community will have some interesting personal opinions and experiences on in-person and digital communities. Please chime in with your thoughts! <comment><USER2> Anecdata: the less time I spend on my phone/computer the more social I get. Everything interesting in my life so far happened organically when I went out of my comfort zone or when I wasn't expecting it.

> How can we use technology to remove some of the work in facilitating these > ... and make us less lonely.

I don't think we need more tech to solve this issue, just go out, talk to people. Online communities help shut-ins to stay shut-ins, not to open up. It gives you a sense of being part of a community but it's not anywhere close to the real deal. Anything more complete/complex than meetup.com is already too much.

Use the web to find a local DnD / movie / wood working / whatever club, then switch off your computer and go there.</comment>


Dunning-Kruger - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/i-m-h-o/86f910e35a8f <comment><USER2> Dunning & Kruger (1999) [1] studies individuals' perceived and actual performances in humour, grammar, and logic. It observed that the gap between expectation and reality was inversely predicted by competence. The authors conclude that "people tend to hold overly favourable views of their abilities in many social and intellectual domains". C'est tout.

The implied mis-interpretation of Dunning & Kruger, that inability and confidence are correlated, is as commonplace as it is untrue. The Dunning & Kruger cohort which estimated its humour at the top quartile _did_ perform in the top-quartile. And the cohort which estimated its humour in the bottom quartile did, too, perform the worst. It's just that the top quartile estimated itself at 75 when it came out at 90 while the bottom estimated itself at 60 when it performed at 10. We are good at relative evaluation. What we suck at is pinning that to an absolute scale.

" _Several of my teachers [said] I'd gotten far too arrogant...this caused me to once again return to my previous mode of thinking. I wasn't actually a good programmer._ "

One can be a good programmer and arrogant. The former refers to technical competence. The latter to social competence.

[1] [http://www.psoriasissociety.ttsg.org/pdfs/Dunning- Kruger%20E...](http://www.psoriasissociety.ttsg.org/pdfs/Dunning- Kruger%20Effect.pdf)

<comment><USER3> Thank you. The unintentional irony of people who've completely misinterpreted a very short, accessible paper and then try to use it to make fun of other people's intelligence...

<comment><USER4> If only I had a quarter for every time I've seen the "Dunning-Krueger effect" Wikipedia page linked in an embarrassingly self-serving and condescending way. It makes me cringe every time.

If you feel like cringing a lot, check out: [https://www.google.com/search?q=link:http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikiped...](https://www.google.com/search?q=link:http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FDunning%25E2%2580%2593Kruger_effect)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I think you may be missing the point here. I'm sure you _are_ a great engineer. And Impostor Syndrome and Dunning-Kruger are definitely phenomena you need to know. But the vicious response probably comes from a concern that is completely orthogonal to how good you are:

Humility. People expect you to be humble. Even if you were the cleverest hacker on Earth, readers are not going to take kindly to you giving yourself kudos, even if it is something as small as being a "great engineer." I know hubris is one of great virtues of programmers, but I would contend that humility is a great virtue of _writers._ It's why self deprecation is so common in writing and comedy. You poke fun at yourself to make the audience feel more comfortable. Do the opposite (call yourself great) and you may be triggering impostor syndrome _for your readers._

Secondly, saying that Facebook is in the wrong because you are awesome.... well, that reminds me of another social norm: "The First Rule of Programming: It's Always Your Fault" I won't elaborate any further. I think Atwood has this one covered:

[http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2008/03/the-first-rule- of-p...](http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2008/03/the-first-rule-of- programming-its-always-your-fault.html)

[http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2004/08/why-im-the-best- pro...](http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2004/08/why-im-the-best-programmer- in-the-world.html)

By the way, I want to say that Zuckerberg's claim in the code.org video that Facebook's strategy is to literally hire as many talented engineers as possible is bullshit. Obviously, that's not their strategy.

<comment><USER6> Why would someone want to be humble?

Lets look at the definition:

        hum·ble  /ˈhəmbəl/

        Adjective

        Having or showing a modest or low estimate of one's own importance.

When you're telling someone to be humble, what you're really doing is saying "You're not important, and I want you to know that."

To even say that requires some pretension on your own behalf.

People should not have a "low estimate" of their own importance. They should have an accurate one, and it's their business to come up with it. Not anyone else's.

<comment><USER7> That is one definition of 'humble'. Another is

> not proud or arrogant; modest: _to be humble although successful._

And another is

> courteously respectful: _In my humble opinion you are wrong._

Both of which seem, IMHO, to be more relevant to the thread than the definition you provide.

<comment><USER8> > courteously respectful: In my humble opinion you are wrong.

Maybe it is because I'm English but does anyone say that when they are really being humble? I would assume sugar coating at best and dripping sarcasm at worst.

Admittedly it isn't as bad as "with all due respect" followed by something indicating how little respect is considered due.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Arrogance doesn't make you a bad programmer. It, in general, makes you a person that others don't like to be around. And if you want to get hired by a large company, likability is part of the package. Not because it's a popularity contest, but because those other people there will need to spend 8 hours every week day with you.

I _know_ your story - I've not been exactly popular in HS either. I did not excel at quite a few thing. Like you, for a while I thought I could gain more confidence by loudly proclaiming my superiority when I actually _was_ better at things than my peers.

All that creates is resentment. The best piece of advice I ever got - and it might well be meaningless to you, but let me share anyways - was that "Actions speak louder than words".

Go forth, do great stuff. _Help_ other people achieve greatness. Be judicious when you do and don't mention your achievements. (I'm not saying to never toot your horn, but do it by choice, to make a salient point). And never, ever, call yourself "great". There are few truly greats in any profession. Aspire to be one. You'll know you're there once others refer to you by that label.

<comment><USER10> I personally say that if someone wants to refer to themselves as a great programmer, and they have at least _some_ reason to believe that, they should find people to work with who are willing to put up with their arrogance. Everyone has a vice. Is a bit of arrogance really _that_ big a deal?

<comment><USER9> Yes.

Because soliciting constructive criticism is a rather important part of being a good engineer, and arrogance will get in the way of that.

And of course, working with somebody who rejects constructive criticism but loves doling it out (a characteristic quite commonly associated with arrogance) is plain annoying. So nobody wants to.

<comment><USER10> _Nobody_ wants to? I don't believe that. I would believe that _you_ don't want to, which is fine. But why must you state that in such moralistic and absolute terms?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> I missed the HN discussion that inspired the OP to write this. Here it is:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5278389>

> _I'm not really surprised at the extent of that response, either, but it is > disappointing. I avoided the comments on Hacker News, which tend to attack > the simplest parts of an article, to avoid getting into stupid arguments._

Hmm...I guess if he _did_ read that HN thread, he would've seen that most of the comments sympathized with him about puzzles. But I guess a great engineer can just instinctively pre-judge things and be right without double checking.

<comment><USER12> Yea I was surprised to see this response. I totally sympathized with him.

I totally glossed over the part where he was boastful.

I think the response he got, and responded too, had more to do with the article being more popular than he's ever delt with before, then it did with anything he specifically said.

Its the internet, when you reach a wide audience, haters are indeed going to hate. You just have to ignore it.

</comment></comment><comment><USER13> TL;DR yes, I reaffirm I am a great programmer, everyone else has imposter syndrome, but I don't. haters gonna hate.

"Great" programmer or not, both posts are pointless and this attitude will not do him any favors. Overcoming the underdog mentality is good, but being so self-centered is at the other end of the spectrum.

        ar.ro.gan.ce
        offensive display of superiority or self-importance;
        overbearing pride; proud contempt of others

</comment><comment><USER14> I have to stop reading these medium.com articles. They are making me deeply saddened, are sapping away my time and energy in minute quantities, and are probably decreasing my peak intelligence/output.

</comment><comment><USER15> I missed the original "Facebook Lost a Great Engineer" post until now. I agree with a lot of what was said in both posts, I think puzzles are generally a bad way to hire and they get especially dangerous the more senior an engineer is (the longer they are out of school or out of the initial learning phase if they are self-taught, the more such questions are detached from day to day development and thus you're only testing if the developer has been practicing to interview lately, not whether he or she will be an effective developer).

However, this statement from the "Great Engineer" post struck me the wrong way:

"I would fire any developer who chose to re-implement standard library functions."

That's a terribly absolute stance to take -- consider, for example the widely- discussed fast inverse square root:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_inverse_square_root>

That was a re-implementation of a standard function (rsqrt), but for a very good reason (speed was more important than accuracy for the use case). While that specific trick is mostly obsolete in development today, if you're pushing the envelope even a little bit with your code, it isn't that rare to run into a situation in which it makes sense to side step the standard library implementation of something.

tl; dr - Developers (at least non-Sith ones) should never deal in absolutes.

<comment><USER16> Is there a Sith developer blog? It would fit with Fred Brook's pilot- copilot/operating room organization.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> He makes a reasonable point about undue hostility in online communities.

That other thread? The article did come across as a little bit arrogant. Not the fun charismatic arrogant either, just arrogant. Still, this article puts that in context.

And threads about puzzle questions are always weird.

You get one camp saying it's not about the answers, it's about the process of answering. When you see a sequence of numbers it's not about whether you happened to see that sequence on Wikipedia last month (and still remember it), but whether you can describe your process of trying to see how it's made.

You then get another camp who just can't seem to understand that the answers don't matter; who say that puzzles test for people who are lucky enough to have seen the puzzle before and don't test for good programmers. (Puzzles probably don't test for good programming, but they're not meant to.)

</comment><comment><USER17> Confidence is a funny thing: you can't succeed if you don't have it, and you can't have it if you don't succeed.

In poker, a game which I am not unfamiliar with, it's well understood that having confidence, even apparent arrogance, is a significant strategic factor which can dramatically improve a players results. The example of poker is relevant as an analogy both for getting through an interview, and getting money from an investor; both activities involve a similar degree of imperfect information.

Having confidence helps prevent you from making bad decisions or constantly second guessing yourself when you experience significant variance, it intimidates your opponents and causes them to make mistakes which work to your advantage, and it can drive you to push yourself harder to learn and improve than you would if you didn't think it was possible to succeed.

<comment><USER18> Staying calm and rational is an important psychological factor on poker. Confidwnce is not very relevant.

<comment><USER17> [http://www.pokerlistings.com/poker-strategy/the-pros-of- conf...](http://www.pokerlistings.com/poker-strategy/the-pros-of-confidence)

[http://www.learn2holdem.com/poker-strategy/confidence-in- onl...](http://www.learn2holdem.com/poker-strategy/confidence-in-online- poker.htm)

[http://www.poker1.com/archives/14247/mike-caro-poker-word- is...](http://www.poker1.com/archives/14247/mike-caro-poker-word-is- confidence)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Why is this petty shit on the front page? Who gives a fuck?

</comment><comment><USER20> I hope I wasn't one of those your felt put you down ... and I think if we were sitting across the table, we'd probably reach an agreement on what we thought about your skills. I think today's article is an argument for being honest with yourself about your skill level. I'm never going break a 3 hour marathon, but that's not why I run.

On the other hand, the paragraph "When I graduated high school, I was an okay programmer. Last year, I was a good programmer. After a lot of work, I'm a great programmer, or at least pretty close to it. I don't think I'll ever become an amazing programmer or any other superlative; I'm not that talented." came so close. What I'm interested in hearing from any candidate is what follows that thought ... "Tomorrow I'll be better than today".

</comment><comment><USER21> I think most hiring practices are seriously broken. I love the approach Heineken took in this: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5Ftu3NbivE>

</comment><comment><USER22> I'd like to coin a new effect, "Pop Psych Geek Blogger Effect", which describes the tendency of bloggers to write about pop psychology, which is catnip to geeks, and the tendency of these posts to be upvoted.

</comment><comment><USER23> <https://twitter.com/mariofusco/status/47988950903693312>

</comment><comment><USER24> Humility only works internally.

Believing you can do anything often leads you find out it's only partly true.

But believing you can't do anything is often true all the time.

I blame my parents for misleading me there, but they meant well & it only took a decade to for me to find out.

<http://notmysock.org/blog/philosophy/arrogance-of-essence>

</comment><comment><USER25> Get over yourself.

</comment><comment><USER26> Proclaiming a judgment of yourself is always tricky. It's like coming up with your own "good" nickname because you don't want a bad one. If you are great fine, but remember there are always greater, and always make sure to continue to strive to be better. Don't worry about self proclamation it just gets in your way, let others proclaim it for you.

</comment><comment><USER27> Maybe the reason why the community clings to imposter syndrome is so they can focus on getting interesting work done instead of writing self-important blog posts.

</comment><comment><USER28> So this guy basically told me he's great anyway. Despite external feedback telling him to turn down his arrogance. And ending with "haters gonna hate" (+ oscar wilde pic). Jerk moar HN.</comment>


Show HN: Follow-up to Python/Django/HTTP/... notes/docs  - <AUTHOR>

http://my-notes.readthedocs.org/
Some time ago I posted this question: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4024938 where 100% of the top-level replies were positive ;). So here is the follow-up.
It doesn't focus on anything specific, it's more like a collection of "loose" notes related to the Python/Django/JS development. The value here is that I try hard to filter out the noise to make those docs useful for myself. For instance, when I need to learn something on a specific topic, I check e.g. 10 or 20 threads on Stack Overflow, and pick just a handful of answers. And only those few high quality answers make their way to the docs.
Let the bashing begin! <comment><USER3> Love it! We need a site dedicated to this kind of thing - assortments of various bits of hard to find knowledge that come up when you're learning about a new platform/language/framework/(anything?). IMO, the learning curve for say, a new framework is often dominated by this kind of knowledge - <USER2> particularly complicated, but hard to find when you don't know what you should be looking for.

The problem of course, is that when you really dive in, there are FAR too many of these kinds of tips to be useful on a single page. Maybe a sophisticated search or categorization that would let you loosely specify the symptoms of a problem, or what you want to accomplish in simple words would work. Also, some way of specifying your level of knowledge in each area that the problem involves would be nice. So for example, if you selected proficient with UNIX then it might say "install these libs from source with x flags", and lower levels might have more info about how to deal with problems that crop up during that process.

<comment><AUTHOR> I have an old idea of mine about a web service (aka "startup") that would roughly do what you described plus some additional features to boost learning/memorizing the most useful bits of knowledge.

But for now we have to live with ReadTheDocs, these days I barely have time to browse Hacker News!</comment></comment>


Japan Celebrates Christmas with KFC - <AUTHOR> http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20161216-why-japan-celebrates-christmas-with-kfc <comment><USER2> Marketing is an interesting thing. Edward Bernays was paid by the tobacco companies to get more women to smoke and manufactured an entire fake women's lib campaign called "Torches of Freedom" that equivocated smoking with women's suffrage. He was also one of the earliest instances of made up doctors and studies to prove you should have a huge bacon, eggs and toast breakfast.

Bernays was the first to really push the emotional connection between ads and products. Prior to the 1930s, most advertisements were more descriptions of what they did, or compared themselves to other brands. There are some cases of emotional hooks here and there, but it didn't really pick up until Bernays, and later Anna Freud and the invention of the Focus Group.

Now we have tons of industries that have turned specific days into huge consumer pulls, like Valentines Day .. or .. well .. Christmas.

Merry axe-mass everyone! Stay safe from robo santa!

<comment><USER3> This is really fascinating stuff. I had no idea that Sigmund Freud was married into the family that pioneered emotionally-based marketing!

How did you learn this stuff? Do you have a book recommendation?

<comment><USER2> I'd recommend the BBC documentary The Century of The Self. It's a multi-part film by Adam Curtis.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I think it's more "traditional" to get the Christmas cake at a convenience store than an actual bakery though, plus it really completes the picture.

One of those things that's so wrong, it's right.

</comment><comment><USER5> This is a bizarrely true thing. Essentially "For Christmas times... make it Kentucky time."

[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Jrb7a8NUeQA](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Jrb7a8NUeQA)

God bless the strange fruits of Japanese-American culture.

<comment><USER6> If you like this, you might also appreciate "The Colones Comes To Japan":

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwwmKcFVji8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwwmKcFVji8)

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Surprising to learn that KFC had a Japanese CEO from 1984 to 2002.

<comment><USER8> He was CEO of KFC Japan, not KFC worldwide.

<comment><USER7> Ah, that makes much more sense. I actually googled to try to backstop this claim and only found other similar claims. Should have known better!</comment></comment></comment>


Rogue: A Type-Safe Scala DSL for querying MongoDB - <AUTHOR> http://engineering.foursquare.com/2011/01/21/rogue-a-type-safe-scala-dsl-for-querying-mongodb/

<comment><USER2> Looks nice. It kind of reminds me of LINQ (in spirit)

</comment><comment><USER3> Why is is that every MongoDB article on HN gets to the font page with 25-odd points but almost no comments? I see them several times a week.

<comment><USER4> They know they love it, but have almost nothing intelligent to say about it. I'd consider that a virtue as opposed to the alternative.

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> Getting further along in the process of re-inventing SQL, I see.

<comment><USER6> Any sufficiently complicated database contains an ad hoc, informally- specified, bug-ridden, slow implementation of half of SQL.

...including every SQL database.

<comment><USER7> Except for Datalog, Prolog, SPARQL, XQuery, etc. which are non-SQL database query languages.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> I'll bite since no one else has asked.

What makes type-safety the most important property of a DSL for querying a database to note when introducing it?

<comment><USER8> It means that your IDE can add all sorts of auto complete magic and cross- referencing if it knows the types and semantics of the code it is displaying. It can also prevent runtime errors to some extent via static analysis of the query.

<comment><USER4> I like MongoDB, but am familiar enough with type-obsessed languages like Haskell and Scala to summarize your response as

"not much"

I'd argue there are potentially better priorities available for a DSL->DB mapper. But hey, they're the ones putting themselves out there and putting in the hard work, not me.

So, more power to them and I'm glad they're contributing back to the community.

<comment><USER6> A common software engineering practice whenever one runs into a bug in production is to say "How can I make sure this class of bugs results in a test failure in the future?"

With a good type system, you can take that thought one step further and say, "How can I make sure this class of bugs results in a compilation failure in the future?"

Rogue lets us do that. The DSL is both expressive (it covers almost all of Mongo's query features) and easy to use (Rogue queries are concise and very similar to Mongo queries), yet they eliminate (at compile time!) a whole class of bugs that have bitten us in the past. When your Rogue query compiles, you can be fairly certain that it will generate a well-formed Mongo query. Getting a similar guarantee from a test suite would involve a lot more work.

<comment><USER9> Jorge - rogue looks great, and had it existed when I started my current project I might well have picked scala rather than clojure and congomongo (which is great too).

However - when you say it would have involved more work to guarantee well formed queries from a test suite, I find myself wondering how that can be true if you test every function that hits the database. Wouldn't malformed queries would cause such tests to fail?</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment>


TJX hacker receives second 20-year sentence - <AUTHOR> http://www.boston.com/business/ticker/2010/03/tjx_hacker_rece.html <comment><USER2> _Prosecutors acknowledged that Gonzalez did not obtain any of card numbers in the case or receive any proceeds from the thefts._

I understand the need to provide some kind of deterrent but sheesh.. you could get drunk, take your car out on the road and kill somebody and not get that much jail time.</comment>


Top Democrat's emails hacked by Russia after aide made typo, investigation finds - <AUTHOR> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/14/dnc-hillary-clinton-emails-hacked-russia-aide-typo-investigation-finds <comment><AUTHOR> > An aide, Charles Delavan, spotted the message sent to Podesta's private > account. It asked Podesta to change his password.

> Delavan realised the email was a phishing attack and forwarded it to a > computer technician. However, he made a typo, writing: "This is a legitimate > email." He added: "John needs to change his password immediately."

This would be comedy gold if it didn't end up with the clown on top</comment>


The Lost Art of Steam Heating (2017) [video] - <AUTHOR> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQB0KK2rxcw <comment><USER2> It's so interesting to see this on Hacker News. Through the bizarre strange fortune of life I'm the owner of a mediocre building built in the late 1800s located in an old mining boom town. It has a very robust steam heating system in place but the town is absolutely in the middle-of-nowhere. The cost of getting someone to just look at the pipes is about $200, not to mention any work. Paid three different people to look at it and nobody knew up from down, got 3 radically different opinions on what should be done.

After a ridiculous amount of searching and reading, I've come to find that basically nobody knows what they're talking about on the subject. The advice online and in person essentially amounts to witchcraft. I noticed people using the same adjectives/verbs to describe steam-heating that sellers of essential oils use. Finding Dan Holohan's website was like finding a miracle. Steam heating is so simple and efficient but it was done in an era when documentation and standardization was more nonexistent than today. If you sit down and draw diagrams and think about the system you have in your house it becomes so simple... but without that hour of logic and shaping of the problem you get no where fast. It was such a good 'back to the basics' experience for me that I wouldn't trade for my doctorate degree.

<comment><USER3> It's weird for me to think of this as a forgotten technology having gone to Penn State where all of campus was heated by a district steam system.

Between east and west campus, they have a capacity of 700,000 lbs of steam per hour.

[https://opp.psu.edu/unit/steam-services](https://opp.psu.edu/unit/steam- services)

[https://news.psu.edu/story/460837/2017/04/17/campus- life/one...](https://news.psu.edu/story/460837/2017/04/17/campus-life/one- year-later-reflecting-penn-state%E2%80%99s-switch-coal-natural-gas)

<comment><USER4> Many universities and other institutions like hospitals are steam heated because they have the steam anyway from their own combined-cycle power plants. I guess this is a legacy of universities having power before widespread electrification? In any case it's very efficient. Steam can provide not just heating but also cooling and refrigeration. If you already have the technical staff to run your own power station then maintaining steam distribution should cause you any additional headaches.

<comment><USER5> Up until the advent of inexpensive heat pumps, using electricity for space heating wasn't very practical. There were some electrically-heated (using resistance-coils baseboards) in the 50s and 60s, I guess when they thought electricity would be "too cheap to meter" soon enough, but it requires electrical distribution infrastructure well above what you'd otherwise need for housekeeping loads.

The big reason for centralized steam rather than small boilers in each building was fuel. Penn State (and many other colleges / institutions in the northeast) was originally heated with coal. There was a rail spur that ran to the campus power plant for delivering it. Delivering coal to each building would have been a lot of effort, and negates the efficiency of a large boiler compared to small ones. So you create the steam in one place and then distribute the steam. (Also there used to be fairly strict rules on having a licensed "operating engineer" at each boiler when it was operating.)

With natural gas now being the dominant fuel, it's almost certainly more efficient to distribute the gas and then generate the steam (or hot water, much more common today) near the point of use, with a high-efficiency boiler/heater.

<comment><USER6> My employer has a campus similar in size to a midsize university, which formerly used district steam heating from a central boiler plant. About a decade ago it was decided that moving to a modern distributed system with a natural gas boiler in each building would net better energy and cost efficiency, and while the transition took several years and was fairly disruptive in terms of the construction in each building, it's ended up delivering as promised.

I just don't think central heating has the advantages today it used to, unless you're in the unusual situation that you have a "free" source of steam (e.g. from process equipment). The boilers used now are compact, low maintenance, and have impressive remote management features. The "steam plant" staff here went from a dozen operating a building to a computer workstation at the facilities operations desk for remote monitoring and a few roving maintenance technicians.

We are also currently transitioning from a central standby power plant to generators located at each building. This is being done for almost the exact same reasons - the generators today are small, low cost, perform testing and exercise automatically, and are remotely monitored.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> A couple of comments here mention how great steam heat feels, apart how noisy it is. This is ironic, as one of Holohan's main points is that when operating properly, steam heat is silent. The problem is that most people have never experienced a properly operating steam heat system. Here's some quotes from the intro to his Greening Steam (which is a great book, which you should definitely read if you have a steam heat system):

 _Steam Heat Should Be Silent_

 _Water hammer, that banging and knocking that is so prevalent in steam heating, is not normal. Don 't let anyone tell you that it is._

 _Water hammer is also destructive. It can break pipes from fittings and cause injury. It 's not normal. It has definite causes, and you can make it go away._

 _Hissing air vents aren 't normal. In a well-balanced steam system, you should never hear air venting. When a vent makes noise, it's trying to tell you that it's handling too much air._

Holohan's main conceit is that there are very few plumbers who understand steam heat, and as a result, there are very few systems that work as designed by the "Dead Men". The idea that steam heat is inherently noisy is one of the main myths that he wants to dispel.

Tying this back to HN, there's probably some useful parallel here to systems architecture and maintenance programming. How many systems will keep working as well as they were designed after several generations of "repairs" have been performed on them? How can one design systems to make it more likely that they will continue to work as designed?

<comment><USER4> The problem as usual is with the users not the system. If anyone in your building turns the valve on their radiator off (because their space is overheated) then the water will condense and when they open it again the entire system will hammer, forever, until the building engineer drains it. As for the air vents it seems that building supervisors just can't resist painting them, which renders them inoperable. They should know better.

So in summary steam is wonderful as long as humans don't get involved.

<comment><USER8> >The problem as usual is with the users not the system.

Never the right attitude. If users have constant issues with a system, its a system flaw. You can't upgrade the users.

<comment><USER9> > _You can 't upgrade the users._

You absolutely can. You just have to state and keep stating that the system is for adults who can be bothered to read half a page of instructions once in their life, instead of fostering a culture of ignorance.

We have a similar problem with software UX, too.

<comment><USER10> People are not going to read and remember detailed instructions for every one of the hundreds of devices in their daily lives. If that means they're stupid, then you have to design for stupids. It sucks, but that's how it goes.

You're quite right that this is an ongoing problem in software UX. The problem is devs who insist that the user should accommodate the software rather than the other way around.

<comment><USER11> > If that means they're stupid, then you have to design for stupids.

No, because it means they're _being_ stupid, not that they are "stupids", like it's a zodiac sign. So they should stop being stupid.

> The problem is devs who insist that the user should accommodate the software > rather than the other way around.

Writing good documentation is accomodating users, and there is a lot of stuff that is very simple but still can't keep to a common way of how things work (because it's all mostly fluff functionally anyway, and needs to "differentiate itself" in some gimmicky way), and none of it has decent documentation -- so people are left to ask each other in random forums or elsewhere how anything works. IMO that's being lazy, and not paying users for work the developers should have done.

If it was designed "for stupids", it would have very clear instructions in big letters which still would hold true after 20 years, because "stupids" don't always have the latest thing.

[https://www.gpsoft.com.au/help/opus12/index.html](https://www.gpsoft.com.au/help/opus12/index.html)

Nobody _remembers_ that, or reads all of it just for fun. But it's all there if you need, thorough and up-to-date. Old Opera was also like that, and none of my non-techie friends or relatives ever had problems with it. I'm sure many other programs still are, as in they _do_ follow allll the best practices an application "designed for dummies" would, but then they also have a good documentation, and maybe a CLI interface and other things a programmer might want so called power-users (as opposed to powerless consumers?) to have. Current users are getting ripped off by being trained and conditioned by marketing departments, not peers and teachers with good intent.

<comment><USER9> > _power-users (as opposed to powerless consumers?)_

I like to think of it in terms of frequency/duration of use. There may not be many (relatively) "power users", but there are a lot of 9-5 users. People who have to work with a piece software 8+ hours a day at work, day in, day out. If a piece of software has near-flat learning curve, it's contributing _a lot_ to the misery of those people. Like, 6 hours straight of clicking through a slow web UI kind of misery, where unbloating the UI would cut that literally in half, adding keyboard shortcuts would cut that in half again, and a semi- decent batch mode would let them be done in 15 minutes, go get coffee, and start working on something else.

Where's the "value" such "user-friendly" software provides the users again?

And here also lies the answer to the age-old question - why people use _Microsoft Excel_ for everything? Because it's a tool for "power users", with no ceiling in sight. It's flexible where most dedicated software is stiff, which gives people a way to optimize their work.

<comment><USER11> I also think saying "we don't bother with documentation or configuration because nobody reads or uses that" is kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

> Treat people as if they were what they ought to be and you help them to > become what they are capable of being.

\-- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

That always risks being patronizing, but at least we should _allow_ users options and deeper documentation, for those who want to use them -- they shouldn't get punished by being restricted to the lowest common denominator. That doesn't mean there can't be friendly defaults, "wizards", and whatnot.

<comment><USER9> > _I also think saying "we don't bother with documentation or configuration > because nobody reads or uses that" is kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy._

Oh yes, and it's so deeply ingrained in the culture.

At my previous job, our customer made us use a pretty crappy, proprietary integrated system for task management, bug tracking and version control. Everyone hated it with passion. It took me over a year to finally stop and think for a moment - that maybe it has some more efficient modes of working, and maybe there is some logic to its organization? I clicked Help -> Manual and, lo and behold, I was looking at a large compiled help file describing _everything_. Every functionality, the fundamental concepts behind the software's UI and data representation. Hell, it even mentioned the API. 30 minutes later, I still didn't like the software, but I was finally somewhat comfortable with it.

I was probably the first person to do that in that company. A lesson here is that unfortunately, the instinct to bitch about software instead of trying to find a manual is strong even in power users. I took that lesson to heart, and these days I'm e.g. very friendly with Info pages in my OS. Turns out if software you regularly use has a decent manual, reading it (or at least skimming, and I mean _cover to cover_ ) has absurdly high payoff.

> _they shouldn 't get punished by being restricted to the lowest common > denominator. That doesn't mean there can't be friendly defaults, "wizards", > and whatnot._

Exactly. Lower the start of the learning curve, but don't flatten it entirely, don't dumb down your application for the sake of "easy to use". Power always comes with some amount of complexity and learning.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> I live in a 90 year old house that still uses the original steam heated radiators. It's actually been a lot of fun learning about the old technology with its pros and cons.

As an example, I always assumed that the radiators were always just full of steam while running, but the systems actually work by cycling between steam production and condensation phases. There's an alcohol filled bladder at the base of every radiator that boils and expands when the steam fills the radiator, sealing off the flow at that point, forcing the steam to route around to the next radiator. Once all the radiators seal off the pressure in the system rises, triggering the boiler to shut down. The water condenses inside the radiators as they emit their heat and cool, the bladders open, the water drains back down to the boiler, and if the home temp is still low the cycle starts again. Who knew?

For now we're actually planning on keeping it around while it's all in good working order.

<comment><USER7> Interesting. I think the system you are describing is a variation of a "two pipe steam" system that is not very common these days. More common systems have have an air vent, and do run on a continuous cycle.

Holohan describes the differences here: [https://heatinghelp.com/systems-help- center/a-steam-heating-...](https://heatinghelp.com/systems-help- center/a-steam-heating-primer/)

He also points out that the failure point of the system you have is that the "steam traps" tend to fail frequently and silently. The system still heats, but runs less efficiently. He says the traps typically have only a 3 year lifespan.

<comment><USER12> Yep, it's a two pipe system. One of the first things I did was verify that the traps were all functioning. Amazingly enough, they were!

The house was built in the 20's by a commercial plumber who put in some more commercial-style amenities including some state of the art for the era tankless flush-valve toilets. I love them, wife hates them.

<comment><USER13> >tankless flush-valve toilets

Quickly tried to find a picture of this, but don't know what exactly i'm looking for. Can you post a link?

<comment><USER12> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flushometer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flushometer)

edit: It's just like what you'd find in any modern commercial building in the US, just with a much older form factor of toilet. When we moved in I got curious why most new homes don't have them. Found out that they don't use any more water than a normal toilet, but they do require a higher water flow rate. The high flow rate requires at least a 2" water main into the house (which we have), while most modern residential construction uses a 1" or less.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Get the book, it's awesome:

[https://www.amazon.com/Lost-Art-Steam- Heating/dp/0996477241/...](https://www.amazon.com/Lost-Art-Steam- Heating/dp/0996477241/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1542127393&sr=8-1&keywords=lost+art+of+steam+heating)

I had oil fired steam heat (live around Boston). Back when heating oil hit $5 / gallon, I got rid of it. It was costing me $3800 / year, but the efficient gas furnace that replaced it costs $700 / year. I'm sure this will only last as long as the fracking boom, but it definitely already paid for the installation.

So now my most expensive utility is water ($1700 / year).

</comment><comment><USER15> I read his book by the same name last year when I moved into a house with steam heating. The book goes into great detail and helped me resolve some banging pipes which kept waking me up in the middle of the night. This was after I had 2 heating "experts" come try and help. As Dan says, steam works great but only dead men know how to do it properly.

</comment><comment><USER16> In my younger years, I lived in an apartment in an older house (early 1900s). The house had steam heat (and no air, which was kind of awful). Steam heat is a bit noisier and I'm guessing the systems are finicky, but the heat they produce is incredibly comfortable. I live in the Midwest, so temperatures can get quite cold. I felt warmer in that apartment than in any other place I've lived, and it's not a drying heat the way that forced air is.

The house was a bit of a dump, and the quality of the heat didn't really make up for the lack of air conditioning, but I still have fond memories of that steam heat 20+ years later.

<comment><USER17> I currently live in my first ever apartment that's heated by a furnace. We've seriously discussed moving again just to go back to having steam heat. The dry air from the forced air system makes the winter _that_ much less pleasant.

The previous place had a fairly modern boiler, no more than a decade or two old. Being a tenant, I have the luxury of getting to largely ignore these things, but, from what I could tell, it required less maintenance than the current place's furnace.

<comment><USER18> What maintenance does a forced air furnace need? Other than air filter changes?

I've only had steam heat.

I have a modern boiler and the only maintenance I have to do (so far) is pay a professional to do the yearly servicing.

<comment><USER19> former HVAC tech here. Sorry for the wall of text but here's most of what I would do as a seasonal change-over inspection:

Every year, a full visual inspection of the heat exchanger, especially important after 5 years of life. We're looking for the first signs of perforation, and/or cracks. A "smoke test" isn't sufficient.

Visual inspection of ductwork take-offs on plenum - leaks, seals, etc. Same for system cabinet.

Check the safety switches -- roll out/limit sensor (millivolt), draft induction (exhaust blower) pressure switch, cabinet switches, etc.

Clean the flame sensor.

Visual inspection on the ignitor. Cracks = replace. Check values on start capacitor for blower motor. Replace if > +/\- 15% of spec.

Blow out P-trap on condensor drain (only applies to condensing furnaces, of course -- the >85% efficiency models, but that's most of what is installed these days). Oil blower motor and draft induction fan bearings. Observe flame color.

After 10 years, or as needed, check exhaust with combustion analyzer for proper C0/C02 range.

Observe 2 startup/cool down cycles for proper operation. Look for proper ignition, flame color/depth/shape, listen for odd sounds that would indicate issues (vibration, flexing, etc.)

Replace the filter unless it's obviously new. (btw, This filter is there to protect the unit from dust/lint, not there to clean the air in the house.)

 __Replace CO detector battery __Not just "ask homeowner to do it" but do it myself. Replace detector out of date (they only last 10 years or so). This is mandatory if you are operating a fuel burning appliance. And Remind homeowner to change smoke detector batteries.

Present a written report of all findings. Compare to last year's report -- look or trends. Keep copy of new on on record at the shop.

This takes about an hour. If your "HVAC Guy" just shimmies into your crawlspace or attic for 15 minutes before climbing back out and saying "everything looks great, see ya in the spring" you're risking your safety and being cheated. Most don't do the whole job. Also, what most shops call a "tune up" isn't anything of the sort; at best it's a cursory visual inspection with gauges on the A/C unit and a check of the start/run capacitors. Most don't even bother to oil bearings.

Every shop is different. There is a wide spectrum of hacks and pros.

<comment><USER18> Thanks for the info. :)

So a forced air furnace is basically the same as a boiler where you just call a technician to do your "yearly servicing?"

The company that services my boiler spend well over an hour on it, so I'll assume I'm not getting ripped off there?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> "If you see something that's old and it's been there for a long time and it's working, don't laugh at it."

</comment><comment><USER21> Here's an article on this talk: [https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/01/04/steamed-the- jo...](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/01/04/steamed-the-joy-of-steam- heat)

This type of heating is still used in 'intrinsically safe' environments(where no natural gas/electric heaters can operate safely). Lots of banging and knocking pipes.

</comment><comment><USER22> Thanks for the kind words and for your interest in steam heating. There's a delicious amount of history wrapped up in this stuff.

I gave that talk at The General Society of Mechanics and Tradesmen of the city of New York, not at The Arsenal. I did talk about the Arsenal, though. That's a wonderful place. GSMT is at 20 W. 44th Street in Manhattan. It's a landmarked building, across the street from the Harvard Club. Visiting there is like watching Night at the Museum. I'm currently V.P of the Society.

I founded HeatingHelp.com in 1997. I retired in 2016 and our daughter, Erin Holohan Haskell, now owns the site. It's a terrific resource for heating system, both old and new.

Dan

</comment><comment><USER23> A section of downtown Cleveland is still heated using a closed-loop steam- powered district system.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_heating](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_heating)

[https://www.flickr.com/photos/timevanson/28933250436](https://www.flickr.com/photos/timevanson/28933250436)

<comment><USER24> Downtown Philadelphia as well. In fact, the small access street behind my work has a giant boiler in a back of an 18 wheeler that seems to be hooked up to our building while they are working on pipes and such. it's crazy! It was rented which i think was weird, there was a sign on the side to powerhouse, a quick google reveals the link below

[https://www.powerhouse.com/boiler-rental/trailer-mounted- boi...](https://www.powerhouse.com/boiler-rental/trailer-mounted-boilers)

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> A few years ago I was looking at the specific heat of common substances and water is pretty much off the charts compared with everything else ([http://hyperphysics.phy- astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Tables/sphtt.html](http://hyperphysics.phy- astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Tables/sphtt.html)).

But the heat of vaporization is also huge: it takes about the same energy to boil a quantity of water as it does to take it from 0°C to 100°C.

The main downside is that the vaporization/condensation has to take place at 100°C, which is arguably a bit hotter than is ideal for safe space heating. Also the water returning to the boiler might not be cold enough to condense out the water vapor from the fuel (more important in fuels like natural gas with a big difference between HHV and LHV).

I've sometimes wondered if it would be practical to operate a steam heating system at a partial vacuum so that the condensation/vaporization could occur at a lower temperature, but I haven't seen that done anywhere so I'm guessing the answer is no.

<comment><USER26> > I've sometimes wondered if it would be practical to operate a steam heating > system at a partial vacuum so that the condensation/vaporization could occur > at a lower temperature

He actually talks about exactly this in the video! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQB0KK2rxcw&t=573](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQB0KK2rxcw&t=573)

"You'll be sending steam up into the building at temperatures, in some cases, as low as 150 degrees" (83 degrees C)

<comment><AUTHOR> Look up "vacuum vapor heating" for more info --- quite clever to do it even without using a vacuum pump, just special vent valves.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER27> Im an engine mechanic at a small chain of midwestern shops, and Ive noticed the closer our location gets to the great lakes, the more likely the shop heat is going to be steam. The shop I work out of has reed radiators powered by a coal furnace. We use our Reznor gas units because nobodies ever cared to get the old system running again, but I feel like this would be a fun project.

</comment><comment><USER28> Forgive the dumb question, but what's the point of these systems, compared to just using hot water?

Here in northern Europe, these systems are virtually unheard of. What's quite common, OTOH, are city-wide district heating systems, often run from the waste heat from electric power plants. IIRC the temperature of the heating water mains when going out from the plants is around 110C or so (it's water, not steam, due to it being slightly pressurized [1]). Each house or block then has it's own heat exchanger, used for heating the water that goes to the radiators (which IIRC is kept above 60C to avoid bacterial growth) as well as producing warm tap water.

[1] Which makes for a nice show when there's a break in the heating mains somewhere; lots of steam coming out of the ground.

<comment><USER7> _what 's the point of these systems, compared to just using hot water?_

The main advantage is probably that you don't need any pumps. This can increase efficiency, and removes a major point of failure.

The other big difference is that phase transition from water to steam is very high energy. By weight, steam transports 6x the heat of liquid water, and releases 5/6 of this as soon as it condenses back to water. Depending on the situation, this can be an advantage.

In general, I don't think that either system has a tremendous advantage -- they are just different. For modern systems, advantage probably leans to hot water.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> "By the way you're a good looking group. Thank you for taking care of yourselves. Last week I spoke to a group that was butt ugly and it was really difficult. Speaker's burden, so... thanks for taking care of yourselves" Now THAT is a technique haha.

This guy's so amped up and excited about this stuff it's amazing - even if you are not interested in steam heat, you are now!

EDIT: This presentation is also great - similar, but more history: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkgM0qCy5o4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkgM0qCy5o4)

</comment><comment><USER30> Is it a lost art? If I'm not mistaken it's very much a thing still on the east coast and in places like Iceland and parts of Russia.

<comment><USER31> I think it's a lost art in that they aren't being built any more, yet lots of people have them.

In any case I live in Massachusetts and had steam heat for many years and found these books super helpful. There are however some plumbers around here that know their way around these systems.

</comment></comment><comment><USER32> I think it may come back in about 10 years coupled with a solar thermal collector.

[https://www.chalmers.se/en/departments/chem/news/Pages/Emiss...](https://www.chalmers.se/en/departments/chem/news/Pages/Emissions- free-energy-system-saves-heat-from-the-summer-sun-for-winter-.aspx)

</comment><comment><USER33> One question I have with steam heating in say an old Brooklyn apartment building is how healthy could it possibly be after so many years? Also some of the valves are not really controllable, it's either you deal with extreme heat or you shut it entirely off (for the room).

</comment><comment><USER34> I've yet to watch the video, but it seems weird to see praise for steam heating systems to me when I've had literally nauseatingly overheated apartments due to it.

Was I just unlucky enough to have to cope with lowest-bidder systems?

<comment><USER18> There's nothing particular about steam heating that will cause overheating on its own; it works identical to any other heating or cooling system; there's a thermostat where you set the temperature and it turns the system on and off to maintain the temperature at its set point. You change the set point if you are uncomfortable.

Sometimes for multi unit buildings the landlord or super controls the heat for the whole building, that can be a case of the heat being set hotter than the occupant prefers, or perhaps just due to poor maintenance the system isn't maintaining temperature properly. I'm not sure why they couldn't just turn off individual radiators in this case though.

A properly set up and maintained steam heating system keeps temperature properly and doesn't overheat the occupants.

<comment><USER35> I looked at an apartment that had steam heating via radiators in every room. The landlord was very adamant that the tenants were not to adjust the radiators. My guess as to why is that turning one off/down could make the others hotter.

<comment><USER34> Reading up on some of the links provided in this thread, I think that would indicate a badly maintained system/too much pressure.

And I'm now quite sure I had to deal with a single-pipe system modified to not have individual valves. Quite insane, but I guess that's what cheap owners will do.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> Fascinating, thank you for posting. I'm always intrigued by steam systems in places like NYC.

</comment><comment><USER20> "Nothing happens until someone picks up a hammer"

</comment><comment><USER37> Great talk. Thanks Dan.</comment>