The school that hates rules - <AUTHOR> https://medium.com/bright/meet-the-school-that-hates-rules-d55fca40d28

<comment><USER3> To believe that one can compete with the psychologists who design addictive behaviors into today's modern day entertainment is not a bet I would take.

Heck even back when I was in school, I barely did any homework or studied at all, I lived to go home and play video games every day. I was able to skim through because traditional school had such low expectations, but without proper studying I did not learn any of the material that I tested so well on. As a result I had to retake a lot of courses when I got to college.

A much more authoritarian environment in school would have been good for me. Two periods free of distraction dedicated to studying (perhaps spread throughout the day) would have resulted in my learning a lot more.

One saving grace might be if the majority of students who go to these schools have parents who expect excellence. In that case peer pressure will force many students to take the same lessons that other students are. I suspect that so long as the school sizes stay small that it will be possible for such forces to dominate.

Running a 2000+ student public school within the context of a community that has little expectations of academic achievement? Good luck graduating students who are even literate. (One can observe low literacy rates highly economically depressed areas already!)

More fundamentally, sites/services like Reddit, Facebook, Snapchat, Instagram, etc, all directly tweak the pleasure center of our brain. By design users will _not_ get bored of them. Yeah yeah half the users on HN will get bored of Snapchat/Facebook/Instagram, congrats, we aren't neurotypical, I don't get a spark of pleasure looking at pictures of people on some social network, but I sure as heck know others who can literally spend hours just browsing photo streams.

TIL on Reddit however? Or heck just HN itself? Yup, very addictive. Learning new factoids feels good.

<comment><USER4> > the psychologists who design addictive behaviors into today's modern day > entertainment

Most of them are "designed" by the market, not psychologists — addictiveness is a selectional pressure.

But yes, that part stood out to me too. "Kids will get bored and start learning". Says who? What if they don't?

<comment><USER5>
      Most of them are "designed" by the market, not
      psychologists — addictiveness is a selectional pressure.

If a car is reliable, is it because of the highly paid expert engineers who improve the design; or the multi-billion-dollar company that hires those engineers; or the free market competition that discourages unreliability?

I'd say the answer is "all of them, but in different ways"

<comment><USER6> The free market is the biggest driver in this case. We know this to be true because cars designed by companies who have lost their way and don't car anymore are typically poor. And cars designed as national projects are typically terrible. The engineers do the work, but it's the fussy and fickle customers who are their ever present, unrelenting boss.

<comment><USER7> The free market also prefers awful and addictive things like Mcdonalds, cigarettes, and Facebook. When personal profit and easy gratification are the main drivers of a system then don't solely expect good things to pop out... good AND bad things arise.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Most of my entire K–12 education was with a "Sudbury Model" school, The Red Cedar School in Vermont, of which my mother was a founding member. I grew up steeped in the intense and (frequently) heated discussions of educational practices, child development, roles of staff members, and constant explanations of the school's philosophy to everyone that asked what grade I was in (there are no grades). I always love seeing these articles reach wider audiences—the schooling I had was very, very rare!

The title grated on me a little—this, like most news articles about Sudbury Schools, ledes with some vague anti-authority/anarchy line. The only "rule" that the school might be considered hating is in the imperial sense (namely, the US education model that remains largely unchanged since the industrial revolution), but as to rules within the school, there are hundreds—all brought before committee, voted on, and enforced by students and staff alike, as in any full democracy.

The depth of writing and research on this model of education and its successes (or failures) for students are way way too broad for this margin to contain. If you're interested in some further reading, there's a number of publications from former students and founders at [http://bookstore.sudburyvalley.org](http://bookstore.sudburyvalley.org) , and a pretty good TL;DR on Wikipedia at [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudbury_Valley_School](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudbury_Valley_School) (check out the brevity of those sections!)

<comment><USER9> I have two questions for you if I may?

How hard was the transition out of a Sudbury school for you? Since you only did K-12 at one, presumably you went to a "traditional" High School, College, and then got a job. So how hard was moving from that "no grades, your pace, you decide how you learn!" type environment to one with formal classes, grades, and so on. Both culturally but also do you feel you knew as much as the other kids when taking a class?

My second question is: Would you send your kids to a Sudbury school?

<comment><USER8> Hi Someone1234!

Happy to answer, and sorry for the long-delayed reply, hope you still see this and it's not too wall-of-text-y.

A slight misconception/communication here; I actually attended Red Cedar School from age 5 to 18 (when I graduated), so I never attended a standard public school. From age 16–18, I spent half the school day at an offshoot of a public high school, studying movie post-production, but that was also relatively radical in both its trust of students to be independent learners and its lack of formal classroom setting. The difficulties I had with the pseudo-public film school were primarily with recognizing and respecting hierarchy and the student-teacher relationship. I talked with the school director/principal, the class instructor, and the students all equally as peers, and I critiqued curriculum, challenged teachers to back up their statements, and had little patience for students that screwed around or disregarded rules. Because of this I was often labeled (sometimes formally) as arrogant or standoffish to teachers, and aloof or condescending with my actual peers. I really took it to heart to learn and improve from this though, and I adjusted in about a year. I'm also very glad for that experience—understanding the structure of power and chain of command as part of nearly everything in society is pretty crucial to success, and that is one thing I just wasn't exposed to in the fully democratic, completely equal-opportunity model of Sudbury schools.

As to "knowing as much as the other kids in a class", I go into every class expecting we'll all have the same pre-requisite knowledge for the subject, and if I know less than that, I study until I learn what I need (or more), so that's never felt like an issue to me. Culturally though, I'm definitely the odd one out—just like a public school student in Vermont wouldn't know about hardships of building a Spanish Mission model in school (as apparently every student does in California), there's a core set of curriculums presented in public schools that bond public students together from across the US, and I have no knowledge of it. That can certainly be isolating—I've never had 1st- period gym (or any mandatory PE at all, we were outside when we wanted to be), never had notes passed in class, never been in detention, etc. and so I can't participate in a huge part of most people's common experience growing up. On the other hand, talking about junior high doesn't happen much in your thirties anyway, so that's not really an issue for me anymore :-)

Post high school: Like many students in Sudbury-Model schools, I took the SAT's after studying for them intensely for several months, and I scored about as well as a traditional-curriculum student—much better than average in reading/writing/language, slightly worse than average in math/geometry. As my first real standardized test though, I was left fairly disgusted by the experience as proxy for college-worthiness, since every multiple-choice question was simply "confuse the test-taker into choosing the wrong answer", and easily guessed by understanding the psychological tricks behind the test construction, even for supposedly difficult math problems. I ultimately ended up not going to college—the cost/benefit didn't make sense for what I wanted to do—so instead I moved to the SF Bay Area when I was 19 to work on films—managing finances, meeting with clients, working with deadlines—I had no problem with any of that (though I was really poor… movie production is not a money-making market).

Now, I've worked at Apple for over 10 years, and the only difference between my colleagues and me is my tendency to still flatten the level of managers and direct reports, but fortunately the culture there leans heavily toward shallow hierarchy and candid discussion anyway. I've never once felt hindered or at a disadvantage for having gone to such a radical antithesis of the entire public school system.

Would I send my kid to a Sudbury School? Yes, definitely, if the student body was rich enough (numbers and diversity of students, not wealth of course), and if my kid clearly enjoyed it there. The school by its nature forces you to be introspective and consider your own needs, and some students do ultimately decide they need a different environment. It's not a perfect fit for everyone as a start-to-end school, though for me the entire experience was ideal.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> I've read extensively about the Sudbury model and education in general when I wanted to find out why I didn't fare well in the classical educational system although I am of above average intelligence.

While I don't think the Sudbury model is generally applicable (they have had their share of failed schools), it contains a lot more postives than classical education.

The classical education system is the way it is for organisational reasons, not for any pedagogic reason:

* There is sufficient scientific research that proves that teacher based education is highly inefficient.

* The age based grouping of children is just plain stupid and has no merit whatsoever. A better way to group them, if you must group them, is on skill level. Grouping children of different ages has advantages for all of them: the younger ones get an attainable role model, the older ones learn a sense of responsibility.

* Sitting still and being required to concentrate for an hour is something you cannot ask a child to do, especially the younger ones. They should be allowed to play and explore. They will learn a lot more than what a teacher can offer.

* It's a fantasy to believe that you learn much in school. The only thing you learn is to game the system: You learn to remember something long enough for a test or exam, and afterwards, you forget most.

And I could go on and on about it.

<comment><USER11> Those seem to be very fair points, but you didn't care to elaborate what are the implied negatives of the Sudbury system in your opinion?

</comment></comment><comment><USER12> This article reads like an almost verbatim regurgitation of A. S. Neill's points in Summerhill, his excellent book on the school that he built and the "free school" system that he pioneered.

Neill's belief in the inherent goodness of children and the power of freedom on their development resonated strongly with me. However, Summerhill was a unique book written by an eloquent man - almost a statement of philosophy, rather than a well-researched manual. Which is fine for a pioneer. Unfortunately this article does not add anything to the subject, and is really just a reiteration of arguments made half a century ago (without even quoting the original title).

</comment><comment><USER13> Wow, my school on Hacker News.

I went to Sudbury Valley School from when I was 13-18. The school is not without its problems, but I'm really grateful I got to go. For me it was an opportunity to focus on the important things -- communication, identity, relationships, sexuality -- The things that a more traditional education is likely to try to distract you from.

It was difficult to make the transition back in to the traditional education system, but I'm finishing my Master's and I'm about to start my PhD (Both at MIT) so it can totally be done!

<comment><USER14> Can you elaborate on what you found difficult as you went to college? How long did it take you to be comfortable with it?

And what did you end up studying?

<comment><USER13> It was basically the Math that was difficult -- Like most SVS students I didn't spend time on academic subjects. So I was 5 years behind when I started the college application process. I spent a year at community college to learn most of the basics that I had missed. I was so afraid that I wouldn't be able to get into a college, or find a half decent job that I worked REALLY hard to catch up.

My undergrad degree was in Music/Sound Technology, but the Music Program at UMass Lowell where I went is quite technical, and actually prepared me pretty well for the job market (unlike most Undergrad Music Programs IMO). I spent ~ 5 years working in video games, research, and web development before starting at the MIT Media Lab where I am now. I really like to code, so I've been doing that the entire time.

How long did it take for me to feel comfortable? Still hasn't happened. I have gotten more comfortable with being uncomfortable though :P

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Ok so this is basically the Summerhill school model. If I could chip in with a data point and my own point of view for the doubters... I visited Summerhill and spent a day there and attended one of their famous Meetings. I experienced it as an incredibly special place.

The children I observed at Summerhill seemed to possess a remarkable clear and calm confidence way beyond their years. It was not a subtle thing. It affected how they moved and sat as well as how they expressed themselves verbally. I came to the conclusion that this was the result of feeling in control of their lives, having their own voice valued and being able to make their own mistakes in a safe environment.

With self confidence anything is achievable. Self motivated learning is many times more potent than that imposed upon you.

So the kids there that want to be rocket scientists study what they need to become rocket scientists. The ones that want to be carpenters study what they need to become carpenters. No more and no less study than necessary to persue their self determined destiny.

I found that highly disconcerting at first. As someone who identified with high academic achievement, the idea that you would voluntarily not want to achieve A grades in all subjects seemed crazy. It was an unsettling moment when I walked away realising that I was the crazy one and had been suckered into the needlessly competitive system of academic achievement that succeeds by satisfying its own internal logic and dismissing other approaches.

Left to their own devices and free of rules imposed on them, as opposed to those self determined, these humans decide that their own time should be mostly filled with... play and just enough study to fulfil what they feel drawn to as a purpose in life.

Being given the time and space and quiet to be able to see what your purpose in life is is the greatest gift that any school can bestow on a child. Because when you have purpose, everything else falls into line behind it.

A further note. These Meetings are not just pupils councils guided by adults - they are raw democracy. It's also where a lot of the learning happens I believe, which is probably why they form such a central part of the school. They teach rhetoric in the most hands on way imaginable. They teach morals. They teach you how to relate socially. And things like public speaking naturally fall out of the meeting process too.

When it's easier to self teach than ever before I feel we need more schools like Summerhill and the poster's. Schools that allow us to read the 'what it is to be human' manual rather than the increasingly painfully outmoded systems we inherited from Victorians.

<comment><USER16> I sent my three children to Summerhill - the youngest is still there. I think your impressions were correct - I certainly consider it to have been a great success. One of the kids was of an academic bent, she studied hard and now seems happily set on an academic career. The other two boys are obsessed with music, and got/are getting the minimum number of qualifications to allow them to go to music college. That seems to be a common pattern at the school - <USER2> figure out what they want to do, the qualifications needed (if any) and get them. Of course, being teenagers, they're perfectly capable of screwing up - but I think, if anything, putting responsibility for their lives in their own hands makes that _less_ likely, rather than more.

One other data point I have concerns bullying. On my first visit we attended one of the meetings where there was a case about some young boys, around 12, who had been picking on one of the kids. On older boy, maybe 14/15 at the time, tore into them. His outrage was something to behold. I remember thinking that if I was 12, and a teacher had disciplined me for bullying, my attitude would have been 'yeah whatever' \- but to have an older boy do the same would certainly have had an effect.

I'm lucky to have been able to afford this - if I couldn't I'd probably opt for unschooling, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unschooling](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unschooling). Having had experience of democratic education, I now view mainstream schools as as somewhat bizarre, unpleasant institutions, and certainly wouldn't want to send my kids to one.

<comment><USER15> Thank you for sharing that. Could I ask how you and your children cope with the boarding aspect of Summerhill. This was something my wife and I fundamentally disagreed on. (Un)Fortunately the cost of Summerhill made this a moot point.

The unschooling link looks helpful.

My three children all go to highly regarded UK state schools which are frustratingly conservative, inflexible and very focused on teaching for tests rather than life.

However breaking out and homeschooling seems wildly risky and frankly not possible without me abandoning my business.

Moreover I think that education should be a social and collective action so am pulled in both directions.

I'd love to see people with influence and funds (pg!) apply themselves more in this area. I'd be willing to throw myself behind that.

There's a keen and pressing need for humans to grow up happier, more self and environmentally aware and I doubt the current dominant educational paradigms and systems are going to provide this.

Automated systems are replacing 'rote' jobs at increasing speed, so educational systems that cater for developing creativity (Summerhill, Steiner etc) are likely to have an increasing economic advantage.

<comment><USER16> The boarding aspect was what held us back from sending them there earlier - that was a mistake I now regret.

TBH I don't think daily contact with parents is _that_ important to children, certainly not mine, as long as they're in a happy environment.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> When I read things like this, I have to wonder how much socioeconomic statics affects the outcome. They do acknowledge at the end of the article that this is a private school, and that they intend to bring more lower income children into the school under scholarships. But this model seems to require children who are already above average in intelligence, drive, emotional adjustment, etc. so the disadvantaged students who make it in will already be exceptions.

I would be interested in whether this environment would be better or worse for a typical public school student (after a period of adjustment).

</comment><comment><USER18> Sudbury Valley has rules, as the article text even acknowledges. The difference is that the rules are designed to protect the rights of members of the community, not to tell students how to spend their day.

Source: I went there.

<comment><USER19> How did you like it? Would you send your own children there (if you have/had kids)?

<comment><USER18> I only went at the age of 15, after dropping out of high school as a birthday present to myself and discovering the book Summerhill (about a similar school in England).

It was probably the happiest time of my life, because it was the first time my school wasn't a prison and I had the freedom to pursue my curiosity. And I went to "good" schools before then.

Where my kids go, when I have some, is their choice, but I'd certainly recommend something like this.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> We have previously discussed something similar [here]([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6709631](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6709631)). The book, Free to Learn, by Peter Gray discusses the promise of democratic schools with a historical and social perspective. He even calls the Sudbury Valley schools "America's best kept secret".

I attended the open house of the closest (around 50 miles from where I live in CA!) local Sudbury Valley School (called Diablo Valley School, DVS) a few months ago. We, of course, went there with the kids. After coming back home, I asked the kids which school they would rather attend -- their present school or this one and they had no doubt in their mind that they wanted to attend the DVS.

But for some reason, I am not able to make the switch to the idea that the democratic schools are the way to go, although Dan Greenberg (the founder of SVS, back in 1968 in Framingham, MA) has been running this 'experiment' for past 46 years. Maybe, as a parent, I feel overly responsible for my kids and insist that I know more about them than they do. And we know, as Kahneman (Thinking fast and slow) and others have repeated shown, how little we know. It's a sad impasse.

</comment><comment><USER21> This is interesting but the end of the article is weird to me.

They expell every student that does not fit, so obviously their "idea" work. I mean if you remove every data that show failure, any idea will work.

If anything it shows that every student is different and we probably can't find a single way to teach every one of them, which is again obvious and I believe well known by everyone, including the ones in charge of education / instruction (not sure wich word is right).

<comment><USER14> Nothing is a panacea. There will always be those who have trouble with whatever your approach is. The reason for expulsion is generally violence. We bent over backwards with one kid, but he was violent and neither he nor his parents showed any understanding that violence was a bad thing.

Often the issue is actually with the parents. There are parents who simply think that violence and lying are okay for kids. And their influence will always dominate.

The model for us seems to fit 95% of kids that come in.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> I'm interested in finding out how voting on rules and regulations does not cause passive-agressive behavior or jealousy. It appears, based on this brief article, that the school itself is basically a long-term babysitting service. I don't know many parents who would be able to spend $11,000 a year on schooling for their child, though it appears the school itself is targeted at those who don't want the teacher to make their child do any real work. Is the school not held to the same state-mandated curriculum as public schools? I could imagine that, as a student, I would never have accomplished anything within that environment.

<comment><USER23> Is there any evidence that 'voting on rules and regulations' does in fact 'cause passive-aggressive behavior or jealousy'? If not, why would you assume so?

<comment><USER22> My assumption is that these students blame the others if things did not go as they had planned. For instance, the losing party in a vote would become aggressive towards the other and attempt to sabotage their projects. If you have never worked in a group where the people who do not get their way sabotage the group as a whole, I would consider you very lucky.

<comment><USER14> In the Sudbury School I work at, this does not happen. Occasionally there can be anger, but people get over it fairly quickly. It is not considered about winning or losing. It is a completely different frame of mind.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> Am I old school for thinking that giving kids complete freedom isn't the best way to do things? I like a lot of the ideas being used at these schools, but as a kid I definitely didn't know what I wanted to do or learn most of the time, and having some guidance to show me different subjects was a huge help in nurturing curiosity and passion for them.

Even now I prefer having someone with some experience helping me along when I learn a new skill/tool/language, so I can ask dumb questions and learn more efficiently.

<comment><USER25> Not "old school" but you have a different learning style than I do, as I prefer to puzzle things out on my own.

It took me to my 30s to realize that not everyone wants to learn on their own (or are capable of doing so), even if I still don't understand why they can't learn on their own (the pivotal moment was when a friend complained she didn't know how to use Microsoft Word and wanted to take a class. I asked her why she couldn't just start using Word. I mean, it _has_ a help system, there _are_ books on using it. What's with the class? But that's her and her learning style. Like I said, I still don't quite grok it).

<comment><USER14> I wish we could do counterfactual analysis. I would love to see if it was traditional education that led people to requiring a class to learn or if it is intrinsic.

As a species, we certainly have strong mentoring needs for learning mastery. But that is quite different from requiring a class.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> Meanwhile, in the DC Metro Area, parents are being charged with neglect for letting their 6- and 10-year old children walk home alone.

[http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/maryland- coupl...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/maryland-couple-want- free-range-kids-but-not-all- do/2015/01/14/d406c0be-9c0f-11e4-bcfb-059ec7a93ddc_story.html)

</comment><comment><USER14> It is said elsewhere, but the title is very objectionable. If anything, Sudbury schools care more about rules because they are meaningful rules that are created by the community to keep the community functioning smoothly.

One can say it is a school that hates top-down authority and their rules, but not rules in and of themselves. How would that even make sense for a democracy to hate the laws they themselves make?

</comment><comment><USER27> The most interesting thing about Sudbury schools to me is not about finding better techniques for teaching but as a sort of control to test the question "Are current educational techniques better than letting the kids do whatever they want?"

If traditional schools were effective, one would expect significant evidence of this when compared to Sudbury schools. That evidence clearly does not exist.

</comment><comment> m-i-l See also [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8486324](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8486324) about similar schools in the UK in the 1970s. I believe the only one left in the UK is [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summerhill_School](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summerhill_School) (founded in 1921).

</comment><comment><USER28> I think that having a student operated discipline system might be getting dangerously close to the same groupthink cultures we see online, even on HN. Ultimately I think that while a unified community like this has its place, it tends to push people towards agreeing with the group for sake of social acceptance rather than what's actually good for the community.

<comment><USER14> I work at a Sudbury School and my experience does not support this. My take on this is that we have a community rooted in a fundamental acceptance of people that tolerates disagreements. Different attitudes and views are welcomed. Thus groupthink is generally avoided. We often have split votes in the voting process and no one ever shuns someone for how they vote on an issue. Actually, no one really shuns anyone though, of course, they are not all friends.

</comment></comment><comment><USER29> "Democratic", really? How would you define "democracy"?

"Free" is not a synonym of "democratic", it's quite the contrary.

</comment><comment><USER30> My 7 yo would play minecraft all day

<comment><USER14> Probably. But the kid would socialize while doing so, learn the skills of mastery, and basically learn how to manage their time in a fulfilling way. Kids at Sudbury schools often do spend a great deal of time on the computers, but that is rarely, if ever, the only thing they do. What they are learning to do is how to incorporate computers into daily life, mastering the machine.

<comment><USER30> Probably true. I spent hours at a time on my C64, so I don't see my progeny being any different.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER31> prior art: [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/30/brooklyn-free- schoo...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/30/brooklyn-free-school- _n_2214263.html)</comment>


Ask HN: How can I start a web development side-business? - <AUTHOR> <comment><USER2> What I did a couple years ago was this:

\- Go to yellow pages or something similar in your country

\- Search for companies nearby where you live in a specific sector (for example hairdressing, car repair shops etc.)

\- look for a template on themeforest or another site in this sector

\- download theme, make for every company a version with their logo

\- Cold email them with the demo page and tell them you would like to implement their site for xy amount. Well add a little more text :)

I only did this twice but both times I sent like 5-6 mails and got one company accepting my offer.

<comment><USER3> How much did you sell those for?

<comment><USER2> ~2000USD (living in switzerland). Simple websites with a couple info sites about the company.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER4> There are hundreds of thousands of other web development businesses out there, so you need something to differentiate yourself.

Whether that's a great social media presence, better branding, or working in a niche then you need to focus on that.

Most of your business will initially be through your network so start talking to friends/family/contacts about the fact that you're looking to do some freelance development work. Chances are that you'll be able to get a job or two out of that.

As you get bigger and more experienced, you'll likely find that clients come back to you and refer you to others. That's your network providing organic growth.

I'm now working on freelance web dev amongst some other side projects so feel free to ping me an email to discuss if you want. My portfolio is [https://codefox.io](https://codefox.io) and email contact is there :)

</comment><comment><USER5> Just think to something which will improve your life.

Code it for yourself.

And if you still think it solves the problem, make it available for anyone with a subscription fee.</comment>


India is drying up - <AUTHOR> https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/comment/india-is-drying-up-fast/789376.html <comment><USER2> Monsoons have been a dud so far. Our well nearly dried up, and we were planning to shift should water run out. The municipal water supply is useless. The irony: my state (Kerala) receives around 3000+ mm rainfall per year on average, and suffered from devastating floods last year.

I feel sad when Indians wank about military technology and "national security" issues due to Pakistan and China. The single greatest national security threat for India is Indians' abject incompetence in governing themselves. I fear that we will pay a very heavy price for this.

<comment><USER3> "The single greatest national security threat for India is Indians' abject incompetence in governing themselves."

Why don't you learn from your Northerly neighbors (China) on how to run government? One thing I find in my travels to India, is how much abject contempt you guys have towards the Chinese way of doing things. Unbelievable - considering the cultures are very similar (Buddhist thought has historical played a major roles in both cultures), similar population sizes, etc..

No, let's follow a political system that has had no organic roots/development in the country and pretend all are literate folks who are capable of holding a debate on what policies are good for their country, while the politicians take out everyone to the cleaners.

<comment><USER4> Was that sarcasm?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Basically I think our civilization is default dead.

As Paul Graham put it in another context:

"Why do so few founders know whether they're default alive or default dead? Mainly, I think, because they're not used to asking that."

People aren't used to thinking of civilization in these terms. We make retirement plans etc divorced from the projections of change to come. If we rationally considered priorities, you'd see much more popular support for actions designed to address the problem, such as increasing carbon taxes, cutting other taxes, and making an international framework to get other countries to do the same.

There's a scene in 12 Monkeys where the protagonist is in a mental hospital in the past, before a virus takes out the civilization. The psychologist asks if he came back to "help" them. The protagonist looks confused and says "how can I help you? You're all dead".

We have such a flurry of concern and activity aimed at the present. I can't help but have a similar feeling when I observe people making plans and not accounting for the predicted future, even if they claim to "believe" in climate change.

If people truly believed in it, you'd see much different political priorities. Right now effective action tends to be unpopular. Income taxes (taxing a good thing) have much more political support than carbon taxes (taxing a bad thing). I find the situation baffling.

More from Paul Graham's article:

"There is another reason founders don't ask themselves whether they're default alive or default dead: they assume it will be easy to raise more money. But that assumption is often false, and worse still, the more you depend on it, the falser it becomes."

We assume it will be easy to solve problems in the future, with future technology. Or that we will have surplus resources in the future, when worsening conditions cut crop yields, cut water, increase civil strife, and when the global population is larger and total emissions are higher.

[http://www.paulgraham.com/aord.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/aord.html)

<comment><USER6> Yes, the absolutely correct group to take ideas from as far as our semi-long term survival goes is VCs (and the surrounding ecosystem), the same group that made "move fast and break things" the mantra for a decade. Nothing bad ever came out of that!

<comment><USER5> This is pure ad hominem. Do you have nothing to contribute?

You're saying:

1\. I don't like vc's, because a startup founder said "move fast and break things"

2\. Paul Graham didn't fund that founder, but he was a vc

3\. Ergo, every idea paul graham has is bad

4\. Ergo, this specific essay is bad

5\. So, anything that mentions this essay's ideas is wrong

6\. Your post is wrong

Do you disagree with the concept of default dead? Are you arguing that it's impossible to be in such a state as a civilization? If you have an actual critique I'd be interested to hear it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> > while 2018 was the fourth hottest year on record in the past 140 years since > the world began to keep a track on temperatures, NASA expects 2019 to be > still hotter.

In this context, here's an interesting map on what the world will look like 4 degrees warmer: [https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/what-the-world-will- look-l...](https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/what-the-world-will-look- like-4degc-warmer) \- apparently, much of the Indian subcontinent will be uninhabitable...

<comment><USER8> The earth was once 6 degrees warmer according to the geologic record. From what we know, it looked nothing like that map.

Edit - here, for people who can't do their own homework: [https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/travel- through...](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/travel-through-deep- time-interactive-earth-180952886/)

And: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geologic_temperature_record](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geologic_temperature_record)

<comment><USER9> > From what we know, it looked nothing like that map.

Yes, because at that point it was a map of pangea.

<comment><USER8> I posted a map. During the Jurassic, the world was much warmer, greener, and Pangea was already broken up, although the continents weren't in their current positions. They did span from pole to pole however.

The point is that the map posted by OP is junk and not based on any science, just alarmist rhetoric.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER10> My office building has recently adopted water harvesting (which is an ancient practice in many parts of India).

Mumbai receives a LOT of rain, and I'm glad that we're able to divert some of it to the ground water table.

Seeing this succeed, I'm pushing the same for my building too, I'm surprised to see a lot of my neighbours have problems with the same (cause of wastage of a common terrace), I should send them this article.

<comment><USER11> I heard things are critical in southern India, apparently restaurants are closed, our offshore guys are working from home, using starbucks for toilets etc... is this true?

<comment><USER12> I'm here in Chennai, and things are bad, but it's hard to tell _how_ bad. So much of the water is trucked anyways - Chennai doesn't have a well developed unified water system.

As a foreigner who has visited several times, here's what I've noticed:

\- lots more people on the street with those iconic plastic water containers. Lots more water trucks on the road.

\- water quality is BAD. Even in upper-class highrise condos, the water has much more odor and color. In this building, salinity is way up too. There's a reverse-osmosis plant here, but it's only on for several hours a day because RO systems waste so much water.

\- haven't seen many restaurant closures, but I'm sure they're happening.

\- a lot of hotels targeting westerners have advanced filtration and reverse- osmosis plants, seem to still be operating. Some pools are drained.

\- water pressure in some neighborhoods is so low that it's only a trickle at the tap. News says some people are using pumps to pull of the metro system, making things worse.

Overall, it seems like bad expensive water is still out there if you can afford it and want to pay.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> Climate change and weather patterns change coupled with over a billion people in a country (roughly) the size of Argentina is bound to have water problems as per capita consumption grows with wealth.

Conservation + Desalination is the only way here.

<comment><USER14> Why are you attributing water deficit with climate change? Increasing atmospheric water vapor leads to larger storms, floods, and overabundance of ground water.

India's problem is overconsumption and population excess. Until India is able to reduce their population by 50% or more, their water shortages will continue to worsen. A sizeable decrease in their population will also reduce their power consumption needs, so they'll be able to close their coal power plants instead of opening dozens more.

<comment><USER15> It's more complicated than that. Climate change doesn't lead to global increased atmospheric water vapor and the water cycle is very complicated on a global scale. Climate change leads to floods and storms... and droughts and wildfires. Some areas could see greatly increase groundwater recharge while others will see greatly reduced recharge. Even if the global net effect were to increase water, there would still be extreme examples of local droughts causing extreme water stress.

In the U.S. for example climate change is leading to decreased rainfall meaning less runoff and less groundwater recharge. The southeast of the US is going to have some very serious water issues for the next generation, albeit not as soon as India.

<comment><USER16> _In the U.S. for example climate change is leading to decreased rainfall meaning less runoff and less groundwater recharge._

Where are you getting this? It certainly doesn't agree with figures published by the government. [0] The aquifers that are dropping are dropping because of massive well pumping. The wildfires are because we've stockpiled understory fuel while building homes in fire-prone forests. Overstating the case for global warming will convince some people, but others will only grow more skeptical.

[0] [https://www.drought.gov/drought/data-maps-tools/current- cond...](https://www.drought.gov/drought/data-maps-tools/current-conditions)

<comment><USER15> [https://nca2014.globalchange.gov/highlights/report- findings/...](https://nca2014.globalchange.gov/highlights/report- findings/water-supply)

>Surface and groundwater supplies in some regions are already stressed by increasing demand as well as declining runoff and groundwater recharge. In some regions, particularly the southern U.S. and the Caribbean and Pacific islands, climate change is increasing the likelihood of water shortages and competition for water. Water quality is diminishing in many areas, particularly due to increasing sediment and contaminant concentrations after heavy downpours.

I find that people's skepticism regarding climate change has almost nothing to do with data and evidence and nearly everything to do with their personal politics, to the extent that I draw a causative link between right-leaning politics and "climate skepticism".

<comment><USER16> You made a specific claim about rainfall. That claim contradicted my experience over the last several years. I searched for "USA drought", and a very simple government site confirmed there is no drought underway in USA. (EDIT: there certainly _will_ be a drought in future, just as there will be floods and hurricanes and comfortable sunny days with light breezes.) I'm not sure what this most recent link is supposed to prove, but I'm not going to wade through it. I only consider specifics when it comes to weather/climate.

<comment><USER15> Let me get this straight, you asked me to source my claim that climate change will affect america, so I use an official government report titled "National Climate Assessment" which details the effects on America, and you're rejecting this canonical source?

Your reply is "I'm not reading this, I did a fast google search instead?"

Oof owie, my intellectualism.

I shouldn't have to spoon feed you after I gave you an extremely high quality source.

But whatever:

"Climate changes pose challenges for an already parched region that is expected to get hotter and, in its southern half, significantly drier. Increased heat and changes to rain and snowpack will send ripple effects throughout the region's critical agriculture sector, affecting the lives and economies of 56 million people – a population that is expected to increase 68% by 2050, to 94 million. Severe and sustained drought will stress water sources, already over-utilized in many areas, forcing increasing competition among farmers, energy producers, urban dwellers, and plant and animal life for the region's most precious resource."

>Theobald, D. M., W. R. Travis, M. A. Drummond, and E. S. Gordon, 2013: Ch. 3: The Changing Southwest. Assessment of Climate Change in the Southwest United States: A Report Prepared for the National Climate Assessment, G. Garfin, A. Jardine, R. Merideth, M. Black, and S. LeRoy, Eds., Island Press, 37-55 [http://swccar.org/sites/all/themes/files/SW-NCA-color- FINALw...](http://swccar.org/sites/all/themes/files/SW-NCA-color-FINALweb.pdf)

<comment><USER16> Oh, now we're talking about the South _west_? I would have sworn that the topic was the South _east_? I've lived in both areas, and I would classify them as having different climates. Sorry, is that too specific?

<comment><USER15> Haha you really do represent the ideal climate "skeptic"

* reject evidence for non-sense reasons

* over reliant on public search engines for quick, contextless answers

* pedantry rather than discussion

* a complete and total inability to find any meaningful evidence for yourself

For the record, my original comment in this thread has always been about the Southwest, but since you're behaving as such an anti-intellectual bad actor, I'll continue spoon feeding you the data that you're clearly too lazy to even try to understand

"Freshwater supplies from rivers, streams, and groundwater sources near the coast are at risk from accelerated saltwater intrusion due to higher sea levels. Porous aquifers in some areas make them particularly vulnerable to saltwater intrusion., For example, officials in the city of Hallandale Beach, Florida, have already abandoned six of their eight drinking water wells."

>Obeysekera, J., M. Irizarry, J. Park, J. Barnes, and T. Dessalegne, 2011: Climate change and its implications for water resources management in south Florida. Stochastic Environmental Research and Risk Assessment, 25, 495-516, doi:10.1007/s00477-010-0418-8.

>Berry, L., F. Bloetscher, H. N. Hammer, M. Koch-Rose, D. Mitsova-Boneva, J. Restrepo, T. Root, and R. Teegavarapu, 2011: Florida Water Management and Adaptation in the Face of Climate Change. 68 pp., Florida Climate Change Task Force

That's just one way that climate change is negatively affecting groundwater in the US south east and how freshwater is becoming more scarce in America due directly to climate change

Have any more ignorance-fueling pedantry to use to avoid discussing the topic at hand?

Maybe you'll try reading a source? Nah, you'll just Google search it!

<comment><USER16> Next time maybe just don't say something trivially verifiably false about recent rain totals in USA? Look I understand the world is ending. As excited as people get about trivial bullshit, doesn't it seem strange that despite their professed beliefs they've all done absolutely nothing about the end of the world? Maybe that conundrum could inform your future discussion board evangelism...

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER17> Last year there was "Rally for Rivers" aimed at addressing some of the problems India faces - [https://www.google.com/amp/s/relay.nationalgeographic.com/pr...](https://www.google.com/amp/s/relay.nationalgeographic.com/proxy/distribution/public/amp/2018/03/rally- for-rivers-un-world-water-day-spd)

<comment><USER18> And, fortunately, it looks like it is getting some traction: [https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/sadhguru- bri...](https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/sadhguru-brings-rally- for-rivers-back-to-maharashtra-with-revival-plan-for- waghari/articleshow/69670513.cms)

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> Didn't NASA report recently that earth is greener than 20 years ago due to China and India?

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19228922](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19228922)

<comment><USER8> Yup. But let's not let science get in the way of alarming headlines...

<comment><USER20> Read the article. It isn't as simple as the headline. It's not good to assume a headline answers all and is the only thing that needs to be known?l.

<comment><USER8> I read the article. It's mainly about reviving traditional methods of conserving water. The headline is far more alarming.

Versus news like this: [https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/02/one-third-of- world-s-...](https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/02/one-third-of-world-s-new- vegetation-in-china-and-india-satellite-data-shows/)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER21> Recently, government of India, started to look into this problem, some part's of India get too much of rain, and others live in drought.

They are trying to link up all Indian water bodies.

[https://www.livemint.com/news/india/a-wish-list-on-water- fro...](https://www.livemint.com/news/india/a-wish-list-on-water-from-parched- india-1560265588046.html)

<comment><USER22> Which will fuck up river ecologies :(

<comment><USER23> People are so comfortable pumping the environment air, water and soil with fertilizers, pestisides, antibiotics, plastic, smoke and toxic waste. We have wiped out large areas of forests, over produce and waste food. Why is that we have suddenly become so sensitive when we want to connect waterways. Yes there can be ecological imbalances, but is a very small price to pay compared to all the horrors that we commit.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER24> > 21 cities — including the four metropolises — Bengaluru, Chennai, Hyderabad > and Delhi — will run out of groundwater by 2020.

Is that a validated statistic? If so, how is the entire country not panicking about this? That seems like a really serious problem.

<comment><USER25> I cannot comment about other cities, Bengaluru it was a known issues. Primarily big builders who launch their projects dig up multiple borewell and pump out the groundwater. When government realized that ground water levels were getting depleted they did make rainwater harvesting mandatory. Yet it is either shoddily implemented or never implemented.

Ref: [https://bangaloremirror.indiatimes.com/bangalore/civic/benga...](https://bangaloremirror.indiatimes.com/bangalore/civic/bengaluru- slips-up-on-rainwater-harvesting-despite-being-mandatory-59000-structures-yet- to-have-the-facility-installed/articleshow/64846543.cms)

Most of the apartment complexes water supplies are provided by tankers. Local politicians have stake in these tanker services, so it is in their best interest to make sure local populace is dependent on the these tankers and not on government connections which is heavily backlogged.

Few societies, residents do get together invest their own money to get proper water harvesting, but that is far and few to even make a noticeable difference. Builders most of them flat out refuse to build robust water harvesting systems.

<comment><USER24> This is really insightful. Thank you. I had no idea so much was dependent on tanker trucks.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER26> Climate change and the huge imbalance of men to women in india makes it seem like water wars are inevitable in the region in the next 20-30 years.

</comment><comment><USER21> I live in India, and I can literally feel the difference.

But, what I'm surprised of is, many plants didn't dry up. And they are in good condition.

</comment><comment><USER27> Paani Foundation - if you are looking for a heartwarming story of a village in India that overcame water scarcity through rain water harvesting (and a good organization to donate to) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTSGF1KQ1UQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTSGF1KQ1UQ)

</comment><comment><USER28> If you feel depressed after reading this, watch how one person initiated the clean up of an entire beach in Mumbai which was covered with 5 feet of filth: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0ka45g4Fyc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0ka45g4Fyc)

</comment><comment><USER29> California is drying up too. [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/depleting-the- water/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/depleting-the-water/) Our planet's groundwater is being pumped out much faster than it can be replenished.

<comment><USER30> What happened to desalination? The oceans are ripe for desalination!

[https://phys.org/news/2019-06-hot-efficiency-solar- desalinat...](https://phys.org/news/2019-06-hot-efficiency-solar- desalination.html)

One can do it even by focusing sunlight, why can't they do it at industrial scale? I think Israel started to.

[https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/israel-proves- the...](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/israel-proves-the- desalination-era-is-here/)

They used to import icebergs. (It's a good example of Cunningham's law.)

</comment></comment><comment><USER31> Can someone please enlighten us about the traditional water conservation or restoration methods he alludes to? I'm super curious because apparently they have enough merit that Texas A&M is looking into them. Thanks!

<comment><USER18> My guess is things like this: [https://www.thebetterindia.com/61757/traditional-water- conse...](https://www.thebetterindia.com/61757/traditional-water-conservation- systems-india/)

<comment><USER32> See also this article: [https://newsum.in/news/swimmers-can-track-sweat- through-an-u...](https://newsum.in/news/swimmers-can-track-sweat-through-an- underwater-skin-sensor-now/)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> So no more water in a country saturated with pollution, full of 1.7 billion of people with huge social tensions, bad relationships at borders and the atomic bomb.

What could go wrong.

</comment><comment><USER34> Divert water from all 3 rivers in Kashmir down south into mainland India.

Abrogate the Indus Water Treaty brokered by World Bank.

<comment><USER35> Divert to Ganges and make it a sewage too?

This idea is bad in so many ways. It's gross hatred due to mass propaganda. First rule for sustainable water management is having local water supply used locally. We need better water management at individual city/village level like reviving lakes have a good ground water recharge etc.. Diverting rivers and desalination ideas are going to have huge ecological cost even if we forget about the economical possibility of them.</comment></comment>


Show HN: A/B Rankings – Split Testing for Your SEO Strategies - <AUTHOR> https://abrankings.com <comment><AUTHOR> Hi! I'm the creator of A/B Rankings, which I've built to make it easy for you to test different approaches to your site's SEO.

I use a small JS script to alter pages on the fly, and track the impact on your site's rankings and traffic by connecting to your Google Search Console account.

You can conduct quick and simple title + description tests to improve click through rates or long tail SEO, or if you're handy with CSS selectors* you can build advanced, multi page tests where you can alter any element on the page.

You could add new content, remove elements, insert semantic markup or tweak canonical tags to test the impact of your strategy before deploying site wide.

I'd love to know what you think :)

* coming soon: a point and click test editor :)</comment>


Citi Economist Says It Might Be Time to Abolish Cash - <AUTHOR> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-10/citi-economist-says-it-might-be-time-to-abolish-cash <comment><USER2> That is such a crazy idea. This is all about banks wanting to control what people can do with their money. This trend has been building up for some time ([http://mises.org/blog/swedens-war-cash-news- frontlines](http://mises.org/blog/swedens-war-cash-news-frontlines)). Don't support it. Don't trust it. Use cash. Better yet, use bitcoins.

</comment><comment><USER3> Did I get it right that the point is to be able to have an interest rate which is even more negative than it is now?

'Cause it seems like if there were no cash then there's still commodities investment. Or purchase foreign currency (assuming that isn't taxed.) Of course the poors can't do that. Sucks for me then.

Even worse for the unbanked, who do things like pay the rent in cash. With a proposed max bill size of $5, a $600/month rent is about inch thick, and tedious to have to count.</comment>


NSA spy scandal: Turnbull, Ludlam demand answers - <AUTHOR> http://delimiter.com.au/2013/06/08/nsa-spy-scandal-turnbull-ludlam-demand-answers/

<comment><AUTHOR> " ... it has been alleged that foreign-owned data hosted by US Internet companies has lesser protection than data belonging to US citizens."</comment>


If University of California offers online degrees, can it keep its rep? - <AUTHOR> http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2010-08-04-university-california-online_N.htm

<comment><USER3> As a student that rarely interacted with professors/TAs as an undergrad, received assignments via email/web, and submitted my work via the same way - <USER2> fail to see why the fact I did so from an on-campus dorm room is so much better than doing so from a bedroom or office across the country.

Anti-plagiarism analytic software is light years ahead of what it was 10 years ago; the only real issue I can think of is that of the timed exam, though there should be a proper solution for that at this point - I just haven't seen it yet.</comment>


Facebook Engineer Quits - <AUTHOR> https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/09/08/facebook-employee-quit-racism/ <comment><USER2> I feel like I missed something because I don't understand why this resignation in particular was worth a Washington Post article. I read the resignation letter, but it doesn't seem all that special?</comment>


Shape Catcher: Find Unicode characters by drawing them - <AUTHOR> http://shapecatcher.com <comment><USER2> Similar tool for mathematical symbols: [http://detexify.kirelabs.org/classify.html](http://detexify.kirelabs.org/classify.html)

</comment><comment><USER3> I could not get it to identify a British Pound symbol after several attempts. The top proposed glyph was much more obscure and the following ones were increasingly obscure from there.

I suspect that the training corpus may have been a table of Unicode glyphs rather than text from the wild.

<comment><USER4> I think it might be that it's using a font that styles it in a way that's different that's what you're drawing. I got it to recognise it even with my rather crude drawing after I changed the style: [https://imgur.com/a/e9B5p](https://imgur.com/a/e9B5p)

</comment></comment><comment><USER5> This is kind of a missing piece, in a lot of ways. With such a large character set as Unicode's, discovery can be a real pain - when you see a novel character, how do you find out what it's called, so you can find out how to type it?

Unless you're using something like Emacs which lets you point at a character and ask the editor to tell you everything it knows about what's there, this kind of identification becomes a daunting task to contemplate. Shapecatcher does an excellent job of it; as long as you can draw something roughly approximating the glyph you have in mind, it'll very effectively winnow down the search space to a very manageable list of possible matches.

<comment><USER6> > Unless you're using something like Emacs which lets you point at a character > and ask the editor to tell you everything it knows about what's there, this > kind of identification becomes a daunting task to contemplate.

If you already have the character in some text file, it would be much easier and reliable to copy and paste it into some unicode table lookup tool (e.g. [https://unicode-table.com/en/](https://unicode-table.com/en/)).

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> The search isn't really perfect. I tried drawing a (pretty good, IMO) Hiragana "no" and that result was in the third place (First was, a latin small m. の looks nothing like an m). Then tried Greek small sigma (σ) but not perfectly (I draw ny sigmas in a weird way, looks like this: [http://imgur.com/a/XYVHO](http://imgur.com/a/XYVHO)), the top result I got (Malayalam fraction one quarter: ൳) kind of looks like the thing I drew, but the rest of the results are not really resembling it and there's no sigma there.

<comment><USER8> In the box on the right, it says "Japanese, Korean and Chinese characters are currently not supported", which is disappointing, but probably why you're not seeing it in the results.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Interesting idea. It seems to struggle a bit with some types of characters. For example, drawing a lowercase pi would return many characters with more than two legs, which showed up ahead of pi itself and other characters that do have the two. Does clicking on the good/bad feedback links in cases like this help to train the algorithm in some way?

</comment><comment><USER10> Really well done, and handled my crappy drawings just fine.

I did see the link to your thesis on captcha, but a specific higher level blog post on how this works would likely be popular.

Edit: One piece of feedback...it's hard to draw dots. You have to drag the cursor with the button down, or drag your finger in mobile to get a dot. So dots end up more like little lines. Also, an "Undo" to remove the last "cursor down / draw" event would be nice. Starting over for every line is the only current option.

</comment><comment><USER11> This is cool, though I was a bit disappointed to notice the part about no support for CJK characters after trying to draw one and not having it recognized. It seems to me that looking up Unihan ideographs is an area where a tool like this could be particularly useful.

<comment><USER12> I've been using Shape Catcher for a while for my non-CJK needs, but the best tool I've found that for Unihan characters has been the one from LINE[1]. Specifically, unlike others I've used, it tends to do a good job with semi- cursive/calligraphic writing. That makes it faster to look up complicated characters (because you can scribble a bit), plus it's useful when you don't actually know exactly what the "original" form of a character is, and have to just draw it from sight.

e.g. if you see [2], and don't recognize it, but can draw it into the tool, you can get 而 correctly, without having to draw the very specific stroke order[3], like in other tools.

It's made for Chinese, but I often use it for Japanese, too. :)

[1] [http://ce.linedict.com/dict.html#/cnen/home](http://ce.linedict.com/dict.html#/cnen/home)

[2] [http://www.ryuurui.com/uploads/1/5/4/8/15489306/6738815.jpg?...](http://www.ryuurui.com/uploads/1/5/4/8/15489306/6738815.jpg?468)

[3] [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/%E8%80%8...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/%E8%80%8C-order.gif)

</comment></comment><comment> m-p-3 It reminds me the special character finder in Google Docs, very well done.

</comment><comment><USER13> I use this occasionally when trying to find a new glyph. There are some drawbacks though:

• Last updated in 2012: [http://shapecatcher.com/news.html](http://shapecatcher.com/news.html)

• No way to draw straight lines except pixel-by-pixel (really tedious). This turned out to be a pain when trying to draw various arrow types (made of straight lines).

I'm hoping the author, Benjamin Milde, picks the project up again and keeps it updated, or makes it Open Source, then someone else does.

</comment><comment><USER14> This is really great. Works perfectly and solves a very practical problem for me. Unicode really should do something about discoverability though.

<comment><USER15> Using Fcitx on Linux, any Unicode character can be typed using the hotkey for the Unicode addon [1] and typing the description. So if you ever need the "arabic ligature bismillah ar-rahman ar-raheem" (﷽), it's right at your fingertips!

[1] [https://fcitx-im.org/wiki/Unicode](https://fcitx-im.org/wiki/Unicode)

<comment><USER14> Wow. That is awesome. Thanks for leading me to it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> Pretty neat. Would be useful to be able to restrict the blocks that are searched. For example I might know that the character I'm looking for is Japanese, so if I could let it know that I was looking for is Japanese then it could restrict itself to Katakana, Katakana Phonetic Extensions and other blocks if any that apply to Japanese specifically.

</comment><comment><USER17> Love this tool! (Btw title should be one word: "Shapecatcher")

</comment><comment><USER18> Android Wear does something like this for emojis - I've gotten pretty good at drawing a "thumbs up" to respond to text messages and such.

</comment><comment><USER19> Pretty cool! I wonder why the recognizer is not very good at differentiating among types of faces (sad face, happy face, etc.)

</comment><comment><USER20> 𝗇ìϲе homoglyph search tool you've made :)

(it found all the letters of the word "nice" quite well!)

</comment><comment><USER21> That's really fun!

<comment><USER22> for sure! I did about three serious test cases then got distracted into making random squiggles just to discover new wacko unicode characters.

Now that Python supports unicode identifiers.......</comment></comment>


How Little Do Users Read? - <AUTHOR> http://www.useit.com/alertbox/percent-text-read.html <comment><USER2> TL;DR

OK - I'm joking (sort of). I do think it's telling that he finishes the article with this:

"Clearly, the average visitor won't make it too far through most of my articles. But I've consciously targeted a small, elite readership with a firm commitment to usability. If you target a broader audience or have sales cycles that are shorter than 5 years, you'd be wise to put your word count on a strict diet."

I think this actually says more than the pretty graphs and statistical dissection. Know your target audience. And for most of us, our target audience has a very short attention span. From his second graph, it looks like the sweet spot is a bit under 100 words. Yikes!

<comment><USER3> _"... From his second graph, it looks like the sweet spot is a bit under 100 words ..."_

Maybe this is why Amazon wanted their book reviews under 100 words. With all the data they gather it's possible Amazon examined this metric. In _"Amazonia"_ a book by *James Marcus" the first question Bezos asked Marcus was, "what's your GPA?" then "how quickly can you do a (mini-review) book review". Which happened to be on or under 100 words ~ [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp- dyn/articles/A22101-2004Jul...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp- dyn/articles/A22101-2004Jul1.html)

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I would have more respect for usability groups trying to quantify everything if they actually did a rigorous job. The habits of 25 similar people's _monitored_ † browsing are interesting, but don't tell me they represents the entire internet using world.

What's with seeking averages for everything? When you have completely different situations the average is _not_ useful information:

When I go to a book store I pick up a lot of books, skim them, and put them back because they are boring or not what I wanted. Eventually I will find an interesting one, find a hidden courtesy chair, and read 50 pages. You could study this information and say on average I read 3 pages of all books. That's correct, but it's wrong and misleading.

It's not really worth critiquing the rest of the study since it's just not rigorous enough from the outset, but a couple more points:

1\. He threw out visits lasting longer than ten minutes. Obviously that's going to affect his conclusion.

2\. They have no idea what percentage of the text on a page was actual content. I'd guess 25% of the words on any newspaper site page are not the actual article. He should correct for this.

3\. He tacks it on the end, but it seriously challenges the usefulness of this entire study: the content matters. People will read what appears interesting to them and ignore what doesn't.

† Surely knowing their behavior is being monitored alters their behavior. If these are work computers then they're probably wary of spending too much time on the internet if it isn't directly related to their work. Maybe they bookmarked articles to read at home. Or maybe they altered their browsing because they're worried about being judged.

</comment><comment><USER5> Ironic that an article on how little users read is so long!

</comment><comment><USER6> Quote: _I was able to fit very nice formulas to describe users' reading behavior for pages containing between 30 and 1,250 words. For longer pages, reading became quite erratic. Pages with a huge word count are probably not "real" pages anyway_

Steve Yegge, are you reading this? :-)

<comment><USER7> The case of Steve Yegge is different. He's not trying to sell you anything; he's just talking. If you want to listen, you'll probably learn something, so it's in your best interest to read. If you're not interested in learning anything, it's no skin off of Yegge's ass, so why should he care?

In other words, nice joke, but it doesn't apply here.

<comment><USER6> Yes, it's all joke. I find it very funny that Steve's writings would be discarded from the data as "probably not real pages" and I imagine Steve would too.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Good observation, wrong conclusion.

Too many words never stopped people from reading a book. Same thing applies to a web page: you quickly scan a page, but read it if it's worth it.

<comment><USER9> I don't think that's the right conclusion either. I think user mind-set is huge, here. Are they in shopping mode? Learning mode? Surfing mode?

I'd say 90% of the time that I scan, I'm looking for the bit of content that I care about-- NOT trying to decide whether the article is worth reading.

<comment><USER10> Couldn't that just be further distilled down to users scanning material until they decide it's worth taking the time to read more thoroughly? Even if I'm in surfing mode, I'll stop to read an article if it's something that piques my interest.

I mean, isn't that the whole idea behind people getting lost in the depths of Wikipedia? You may have only brought it up in the browser to fact check something quickly, but all of a sudden you find yourself reading about completely unrelated materials 20 minutes later.

<comment><USER11> Breaking things up with headings, lists, and bold stuff helps people browse. I'm sure that helps longer articles. The post may have mentioned it, but I didn't read it all.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Sex over distance using affordable consumer teledildonic robots - <AUTHOR> http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/hackable-robot-assisted-virtual-sex-is-nigh <comment><USER2> Let's face it, being a senior citizen in 25+ years is going to be amazing. I can't wait to retire and just have Viagra fuelled cyber VR sex all day. Take a drag of my e-cig after and sent some bitcoins to my grand kids.

<comment><USER3> That's fine for you but... I'm horrified at what your grand kids will have access to.

<comment><USER4> That future is already here. Reading the book "Pornland" by Gail Dines was both shocking and informative. You can be horrified right now at what kids are consuming.

<comment><USER5> It seems from most of her public output that Dines' primary goal is to horrify, more so than to reliably inform.

[http://www.charlieglickman.com/2010/07/08/7-ways-to- create-a...](http://www.charlieglickman.com/2010/07/08/7-ways-to-create-a-sex- positive-critique-of-porn/)

is one example of an article critiquing her work.

<comment><USER4> Have you read any of her books?

<comment><USER5> Given her general alarmist tone and the fact that I can find plenty of critiques of her failure to give a voice to bodies of evidence that arguably contract her conclusions, but not rebuttals, I'm not sure why I'd want to.

I did, admittedly, manage to find

[http://www.newleftproject.org/index.php/site/article_comment...](http://www.newleftproject.org/index.php/site/article_comments/is_porn_hijacking_our_sexuality_part_2)

which appears to point out that she consulted meta-studies ... on the other hand, it also indicates that (a) she's comfortable referring to spanking as physical abuse (b) she explains that "My failure to give a detailed definition of porn, or my refusal to celebrate porn as a diverse set of cultural products, comes not from laziness or oversight but a commitment to a radical political economy."

... and it ends with "So please don't ask us radical feminists to waste our time coming up with scholarly definitions. We have an industry to close down."

Which seems to suggest that she believes that when you're trying to argue that X is bad, defining X clearly is a waste of time.

I ... really don't think I can see a reason to want to read her books now.

<comment><USER4> In this case, I'll find it completely acceptable to disregard you.

If you're going to choose to ignore a comment by someone who's actually bothered to read her 165-page book (which includes 200+ references) in favor of googling some web articles that support a position of ignoring feminist critiques of porn, in all likelihood you don't care about improving society for women.

I am taking a strong tone because your comment seems to say that if you believe feminism is bad, giving time to thoroughly investigate feminism is clearly a waste of time.

<comment><USER5> Part of the problem that I have is her choice to automatically dismiss any sex-positive feminist critiques - which you're implicitly doing too by calling hers a feminist critique rather than including the sex-negative tag required to provide a reasonably accurate pointer at the form of feminism behind the critique.

I've done plenty of reading on both sex-positive and sex-negative feminisms' attitudes towards porn, but Dines' mixture of disingenuous reframing and shrill moralising reminds me more of anti-abortion activists than anything else and contributes rather more to my opinion of Gail Dines than my opinion of the more rational sex negative critiques of porn.

(I'd recommend the blog series Prude's Progress - it's not a porn critique but an excellent exploration of sex negativity fully thought through)

<comment><USER4> I'm upvoting you for linking to Prude's Progress which looks like somebody trying to think critically about something. And also for the change in tone. I'll try to match you as best I can.

I think the notions of 'sex-positive' and 'sex-negative' are kind of weird, personally. When I read those terms, my mind tends to translate it into "people who think mainstream pornography is fine" and "those who think mainstream pornography has issues."

I guess what I feel is missing from the comments you've made so far is your personal attitude towards pornography. It's easy for all of us to criticize this or that thinker, but it's much harder (and more painful) to introspect and consider what our own attitudes say about us.

Let me volunteer to go first: I've consumed a great deal of pornography in the past, and it's only this year that I stopped in earnest. Looking at pornography made me feel depressed, disconnected from my feelings, and I noticed that it made it hard for me to relate to women in my daily life. Not 'hard to relate' like I couldn't talk to them, but in that I felt uncomfortable talking to somebody as a human being when I'd just watched images that really degraded them.

Now, I was raised in a very liberal Scandinavian country, and my parents are far from prudes. Neither of my parents demonized sex, and growing up, they always said "it's okay if you do it, just make sure you use protection." So the discomfort I felt in looking at porn didn't come from being raised in a moralistic, Bible-thumping household.

When I read Gail Dines book, I find my own thoughts reflected back to me. I find your label of "shrill moralising" somewhat offensive, but you may also be offended by some of the things that I am saying.

Also, and this is important to me, I think it's very possible to get too rational about the whole discussion. You referenced "rational sex negative critiques of porn." I am fine with logic and reason, but I often notice that people who focus too much on rational arguments are avoiding a frank discussion about their own emotions or the emotions of the women being discussed.

Anyway, if you've read this much, thank you. Hopefully you have a better understanding of my perspective now.

<comment><USER5> There's a lot more to both sex-positive and sex-negative discourse than their opinions on pornography, and even those opinions are generally more nuanced than 'fine' versus 'has issues' (the pervocracy blog's ongoing excoriation of fifty shades of bad consent is an example of sex-positive critique, to my mind).

I'd note also that I didn't intend to call your words shrill moralising; any offence involved was supposed to be directed only at Gail Dines' writing style.

I think ... mostly I think that an HN comment thread isn't going to be nearly an optimal vehicle for the relatively deep discussion I think we'd need to have just to get as far as having a shared set of terminology with which to debate things. If you think that it's worth continuing to try, mst at shadowcat.co.uk will reach me and we can take it from there.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> > from a sex tech company called FriXion

Nice name. It has an obvious connection to the product, and if you want to give out pens with the name on them you don't have to pay for custom printing [1]!

[1] [http://www.pilotpen.us/Brands/FriXion.aspx](http://www.pilotpen.us/Brands/FriXion.aspx)

<comment><USER7> Ha!

Interesting to see if Pilot would choose to pursue a trademark-infringement case. "Yes, your honor, we think our writing implements can be reasonably confused with a sex robot."

<comment><USER8> If Pilot Pens starting making a auto-signing machine pen, I could see someone getting a tad confused.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> I wonder if the use of this technology by a paid webcam model on a client would constitute prostitution.

Or what the social ramifications would be of having an omegle/chat-roulette style chat system where people could have sex with anonymous strangers over the internet at a moment's notice without any fear of pregnancy or sexually transmitted disease.

<comment><USER10> Well, "sex". This is probably nowhere near the real thing.

<comment><USER11> But supposing it was, the ramifications would be interesting to explore. This is the stuff good sci-fi is made of.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER12> Some items from the video that were not mentioned in the article: One to many interactions, Record and replay experiences, Pre-recorded games/videos.

Of course, none of the above should really be a surprise but they still caught me off-guard.

<comment><AUTHOR> Possibilities really open up with the telemetry translation api -- realizing that the telemetry is digital, and only has to be encoded once to be read for any purpose for any supported device is huge. We expect to be very busy for a long time fleshing out all the applications we have in mind. One that we're working on is using a users webcam to monitor heart rate (similar to the xbox one + kinect) and use that information to create a soft vibration that pulses in their partners device in time, so when one gets "excited" the other can feel the haptic feedback and vice versa simultaneously..

This is some real scifi stuff we're doing and it's very exciting

<comment><USER13> Have you talked through what the company will do once developers start creating FriXion experiences with virtual children? Are you taking a hands-off approach (no pun intended) to what people do with the technology, or do you plan on vetting each application? If presented with an abuse scenario, would you cooperate with law enforcement to find who is "connecting" with (or creating) these children? I'm not knocking the tech or your intention to make a fun product - just throwing out some important questions.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Now you can have sex without even touching another human being!

Yeah, this is one activity I think I've going to stick to the old meatspace/wetware paradigm for, sorry guys.

OTOH I'm sure it's a fun device to work on :)

<comment><USER15> I'm not sure how dismissing your post is meant to be- but many people in long distance relationships would love having such a product.

<comment><USER14> Yes I did think that might be one application, though I'm not sure how sold I would be even then. To each their own, and perhaps it would be better than nothing, but it would kill the intimacy aspect for me.

<comment><AUTHOR> Intimacy is the name of the game, forget the dildos and fleshlights -- these robots "mirror" each other one to one in both motion and resistance. just using your hands you can push back and forth on each other and it's a _very_ intimate feeling of being connected physically.

<comment><USER14> I appreciate this may work for some folks, but it's never going to replace having limbs wrapped around each other and collapsing in a sweaty heap afterwards.

And sure, this is opening up a entirely new avenue on top of phone/cyber/webcam sex that wasn't available before, and marks a massive step forward in what's available when people are geographically separate.

<comment><USER16> At some point the robots will have limbs and sweat.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> We are looking for partners and new connections on AngelList: [http://www.angel.co/frixion](http://www.angel.co/frixion) , we are happy to answer any questions

</comment><comment><USER17> Too bad the NSA will be collecting all the metadata.

<comment><USER18> People already volunteer who they're having sex with on Facebook

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> Telemetry translation API? Seriously? You're recording 3D motion inputs, transmitting over UDP and playing back on a Novint Falcon. State of the art is much more advanced than that.

<comment><AUTHOR> Our work with the Falcon is just one device (and we're very proud of that, it's a big deal!) The ttapi is a universal language for haptics to connect any device to any other where functionality overlaps. This way new devices can be developed by third parties that can innovate independently and still see an immediate market and userbase. The ttapi is used for games, video, and other software to interact with the user through these devices as well. It's a critical aspect of the potential of the frixion platform.

<comment><USER19> Are you doing force reflection with the Falcon? Doesn't seem like it from your videos. It sounds like I'm being dismissive but I think you're overhyping your tech, just a bit. What I see in your video is not cutting edge (yet), this is from my experience of reading papers and attending conferences on telemanipulation and haptics, and doing research in this area.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> The referring URL should _NOT_ use 'kid' for the id.

[http://www.frixion.me?kid=99999](http://www.frixion.me?kid=99999)

</comment><comment><USER21> THX1138, from 1971, depicting a dystopian future:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Njfm7HKNSmM](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Njfm7HKNSmM)

Note the machine! You can't see exactly what it's doing, but you can see the way it's moving :)

<comment><AUTHOR> It's been so confusing that nobody has stepped up to make it happen. In reality, this area of haptics is a patent and licensing mine field and these tightly controlled properties have stifled innovation until now.

In choosing this problem to "solve" much of the effort has been put into overcoming these bureaucratic obstacles to be able to bring a useful platform to market that isn't just gimmicky vibrators. We're super proud of our accomplishments not just with the robots, but to be able to make this a marketable and useful platform that can democratize remote intimacy to the advantage of everyone.

The distopian conversation is an interesting one, and it's been a constant banter here -- but for now what we're doing is trying to bring people closer, not isolate them. This is a tool, a supplement -- not a replacement for real sex. Also, I love that we have to say REAL SEX now to differentiate.

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> _Teledildonic_

^^This is a Word?

<comment><USER23> Yes, and probably older than a lot of people reading this comment.

Howard Rheingold column using the term in a 1990 issue of Mondo 2000. [http://janefader.com/teledildonics-by-howard-rheingold- mondo...](http://janefader.com/teledildonics-by-howard-rheingold- mondo-2000-1990/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> I hope this doesn't gum up the inter-tubes.

</comment><comment><USER25> Where's the API for this? I want to build the first VSAAS (Virtual Sex As A Service).

<comment><AUTHOR> Unfortunately the API wont be released for third party development until next year, likely well into the beta period. But stay tuned! Right now we're working with various vendors that are trying to get their devices supported ahead of time.

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> This reminds me too much of one: [http://archer.wikia.com/wiki/Doctor_Krieger](http://archer.wikia.com/wiki/Doctor_Krieger)

John Carmack will really need to outdo himself to make the technology for this sort of thing actually viable and not just easy "what will those pervy nerds think of next" news fodder. We are many multiple decades out. I'm speaking strictly as a person who actually had sex mind you.

<comment><AUTHOR> Nothing but respect for fellow robot sex pioneers ;)

<comment><USER27> Are you saying, "I, for one, welcome our new sexual robotic overlords"?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> Yet another pop culture reference — French-Belgian movie "Thomas est amoureux":

[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0262826/](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0262826/)

[http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_est_amoureux](http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_est_amoureux) (no English version of this article exist, only French, Russian and very short Italian)

</comment><comment><USER29> What's up with the cartoon horse in the video?

<comment><AUTHOR> They are RIDING the horse! [http://i.imgur.com/dsDg8.gif](http://i.imgur.com/dsDg8.gif) (i suppose it's easier to see in the video if you go full screen)

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> Sex over wire. this is brilliant. There are gonna be a lot of no-nodders, but trust me, this is going to be a thing in the future.

</comment><comment><USER31> There was april fool's joke 12 years ago about a device called FuFme that did exactly that. The world changes.

<comment><USER32> Still around... haha

[http://www.easylife.org/fufme/](http://www.easylife.org/fufme/)

</comment></comment><comment><USER33> How safe is this? It seems difficult to deliver enough force to be realistic without the potential to damage sensitive organs.

<comment><AUTHOR> It's quite safe, the robots you see in the video have a maximum output that is quite gentle, enough to push small and medium sized toys through a well lubricated passage-way but otherwise harmless.

We have stronger devices that will also be supported day 1 on the beta, and these devices have their power and stroke length defined in the driver software. These more powerful devices aren't so much robots though, just single axis articulation and no bidirectional feedback -- good enough for accelerometer control though where there's no channel for feedback anyway.

ALSO, remember in encounters with humans communication is key! make sure they know what you want and how, just as if they were really there.

</comment></comment><comment><USER34> I just hope the product is better than the video and the music.

</comment><comment><USER35> it looks like my investment in sex slash Oculus related porn domains is well on it's way.

</comment><comment><USER36> I'm sure that the technology behind this can be used for something more useful.

<comment><AUTHOR> The technology we're using is taken from remote presence machines used for things like remote surgeries. The machines are really just tracking a point in 3d space on both sides and matching it. For medical use, you can imagine the robot arm tracking the edge of a doctors scapel to the micron accuracy -- what we have here is a consumer grade robot for <200$ that tracks to milimeters.

It's a 3D force feedback mouse essentially, you can use it for manipulating and creating 3D models and feel their texture, edges, material, weight, etc.

</comment></comment><comment><USER37> [http://www.gizmag.com/nsfw-review-realtouch-sex-toy-for- men/...](http://www.gizmag.com/nsfw-review-realtouch-sex-toy-for-men/26804/)

<comment><AUTHOR> We like the realtouch and intend to support it on the frixion platform eventually -- it has an open source sdk available and having broad support for diverse haptic experiences is the point of the plugin system -- however the realtouch is different in some important ways compared to what we've accomplished here using robotics.

The realtouch is an "input only" device that sits motionless on a mans lap while the conveyor belts do their job either from an encoded video, or from a live model using a touch sensitive dildo called a joystick. This is flow of telemetry in a single direction -- to the realtouch. Our devices create a tethered sense of physical intimacy and connection. One partner feels whats happening with the other side, and vice versa, simultaneously. Also, our design has all the moving parts on the outside, which we feel is more appealing than sticking your penis into an opaque grinding box. (Our devices are _very_ quiet btw, will be adding new videos next week to demonstrate)

You can imagine when we add support for the realtouch that other devices on the platfrom such as the robot itself and accelerometer products will be able to send telemetry to the device to control its functions, and vice versa, the joystick would be able to send telemetry to the robots to manipulate a fleshlight/tenga/sleeve. It's really a robust api that enables all devices to interact where their functionalities overlap.

However, we should all be supportive of realtouch right now -- it appears they're having licensing issues with a certain patent holder that is turning the screws on them and without intervention they wont be able to continue selling devices next year. Dealing with this minefield of patents and licensing has been an important predicate for our development at frixion, and we are eager to create a "safe haven" for other developers to deploy their devices under the agreements we hold in the future.</comment></comment>


Show HN: Security Compliance SaaS for Startups - <AUTHOR> https://siroccosecurity.com/ <comment><AUTHOR> We are working on a security SaaS for small startups with more than just code and configuration scanning. We saw that many startups struggled with implementing security checklists and compliance requirements, often resulting in "check the box" culture. Is this something that would be useful to you?</comment>


The Longitude Prize: £10M prize to help solve antibiotic resistance - chestnut-tree https://longitudeprize.org/

<comment><AUTHOR> Hopefully this prize won't, like its namesake, require a lifetime of argument to claim.

See [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harrison](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harrison)</comment>


The Story of Audion (2004) - <AUTHOR> https://panic.com/extras/audionstory/ <comment><USER2> At the time when Audion, and Soundjam were the only (real) Mac MP3 choices, I worked at MP3.com.

I recall conversations over email, phone (and even in person once (unplanned "hey I'm...")) with Cabel, a great guy. Our email exchanges led to putting Audion into the MP3.com recommended players page.

Everyone at MP3.com (on the engineering side) loved the quality Audion app. When we saw that Soundjam had become iTunes, we gasped, "how could they choose that app over Audion?"

A lot of internet history during that time. One thing is for sure, content, and the access to that content is still the fuel of internet growth.

I tip my hat to Cabel, Audion, Panic, and the team. I always felt like you were one of us, as in Panic build quality products coded by team who care about what hey send out.

I hope your (money) ship comes in someday.

au revoir Audion, au revoir

</comment><comment><USER3> Interesting to see this bubble up today. A great read.

I was an Audion customer back in the Napster days. (Not that I pirated music or anything, you know.) It was a pretty cool little program; really had no idea of the loops it was jumping through to get classic Mac OS to just play continuous music.

Since then I've picked up other Panic products; Coda is still an everyday tool for me.

</comment><comment><USER4> > iTunes was, of course, and I'll say this now, brilliant. It single-handedly > taught us an entirely new philosophy on software design. Do you really need > that Preference that 1% of your users will use?

Hilarious with the context of what an awful beast iTunes became in the decade following.

</comment><comment><USER5> Audion was awesome! I'm a huge Panic fan from way back, and every Panic success makes me very happy. (I'm the Charles mentioned in the article.)

</comment><comment><USER6> Back in the day. This is a great post. I just found where to download this. The memories. Still have a G4 mirror door model that will run this and SoundJam. So cool to bring these back to life. This on the same day I just got my new Beats Studio3 Wireless cups. Juxtaposed.

</comment><comment><USER7> Panic has always been a fantastic and creative developer, at least in the Mac space.

</comment><comment><USER8> great read. always nice to read stories of honest competition that bring out the best in both sides (until apple swoops in, of course :). i wonder if they would have sold out to apple when they originally came calling to build iTunes the first time around had they not been tied up with AOL, rather than to just join after the fact.</comment>


Havenco is back - <AUTHOR> https://www.havenco.com/

<comment><USER2> They can't send your credentials electronically or they will be intercepted. No guarantee snail mail wasn't as well.</comment>


Tools for startups along their lifetime - <AUTHOR> https://docs.google.com/present/edit?id=0AdawJ_th06NvZDJrcWs2cl8yNnc2Z2ZxNmc0&hl=en&pli=1

<comment><USER2> This is great, as is rchaudhary's link.

I can usually deal very well with tools/software/etc, but I have more problems getting really straight answers on non-technical things sometimes.

Does anybody have similar links for business processes? "Here's the least amount of accounting/legal/business/etc you need for starting up a business..."

Quick steps like: \- Use this template as your Articles of Organization and file for an LLC. \- Get a company credit card and buy everything on it. \- Your accounts should look like "this" \- Here's the steps you go through to add money from your personal savings to your company's in a clean way (no corporate veil piercing or anything of that nature) _after_ the beginning of the company \- A guide to internet advertising -- what works/what doesn't/who the players are

Programmers have so many bulidings blocks these days for handling sys admin, money handling, etc, but there are still a lot of things I'm very curious about and can't seem to find a single simple source of information for.

<comment><USER3> If anybody could recommend a good book of this sort I'd be very interested.

Just lightweight, 'IANAL' good guidelines for young businesses.

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> I second the wiki suggestion.

My experience, thus far, with Google Docs:

\- Click on link and browse around a bit

\- As usual, use backspace key to go back to HN

\- Nothing happens, tap backspace key a few more times out of habit

\- Accidentally delete most of the presentation

</comment><comment><USER5> You guys should check out <http://startuptools.pbworks.com/w/page/17974963/FrontPage>

</comment><comment><USER6> Has a lot of great information for anyone interested in startups. I have to agree with the rest also, would be nice in a wiki format. However, it seems that it was just thrown together as a mash-up of resources - kind of a first stage document. Hopefully with some more effort it can be a wiki page.

</comment><comment><USER7> Really good idea, whatever format you publish it in. Will save many searches of hacker news archives.

</comment><comment><USER3> Something looks very wrong with it, chrome 10.0.612.3 dev on win XP.

<comment><USER8> I believe it's been vandalized (anyone can edit it).

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> What a great idea which really ought to be in a spreadsheet!

<comment><USER10> Or a wiki, more appropriately.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> Did anyone copy it down?

<comment><USER12> There's a revision history available under the File menu. I went back to the 700s and it was still trashed. If you can find the last good version, you can revert.</comment></comment>


8 Tips for Logging in JSON - <AUTHOR> https://www.loggly.com/blog/what-60000-customer-searches-taught-us-about-logging-in-json/

<comment><USER2> I think #5 about if transactions succeed or fail is interesting.</comment>