Ask HN: In a bad spot right now in life, need advice - <AUTHOR> I am in a pretty bad spot right now, and I do not know simply what do with my life. I am from Spain, 19, and M. I graduated from HS 1 year ago and went to a what is considered a 2nd-tier Uni here in Spain to study CS, because my grades in HS and the SAT were bad.
I had never actually "coded" or had done anything remotely CS related before I went to Uni.
I chose CS mainly because I've always been interested in tech but just let's just say in the "consumer-oriented" aspect of it, never really having acquired a useful skill throughout all the years I've spent in front of a PC being an introvert in HS, other than I guess ENG. And so, during my 1st semester I failed all of my finals.
I also don't know how to study or actually learn things by the way.
I failed all of my finals because of a combination of reasons, but I'd say the biggest one by far is my own laziness and lack of will to actually work, and also me not being "smart" when it comes down to math and such, with which I've struggled all my life, which makes you think "oh, why did you go into CS, then".
Now, after dropping outta Uni this last June, I'm staying at my parents' home for a year, getting my driver's license and such and preparing for Vocational School next year, which I couldn't get into this year because in my region of Spain you could only apply during the Month of May and I fucked up. I am planning to choose "Web Development", but I haven't done anything throughout this last summer and up until now. During all my years in HS I also lied to other people about who I was. I even told them I made trailers for DICE and made money online, so now I have no friends I can speak in town where my parents live because other than the fact that they're all in university I am ashamed of all of those lies I told and the false persona I created to justify my introversion. I'm depressed, in a way. I'm scheduled to see psychologist in 2-wa, so we'll see.
Anyways, if you've made it this far, thanks in advance <comment><USER2> I'm 26, male. I sort relate to your situation when I was 19.

Interested in CS since spent a lot of time in front of a PC as well. You would consider me "average" at UNI. Studied CS at the top UNI of México (not an IVY league), but good enough to catch attention of FAANG's. Never stellar in comparison to my other classmates who had been programming since they were 12. Spent a lot of time with videogames since HS and UNI, and fooled around classes a lot. Felt like a bum when graduated (compared to what my classmates were achieving at those times).

Two tips:

1\. Ditch videogames, porn, binge-watching series/movies/random videos, gambling, drinking, etc. Anything that is taking 3-4 hours of chunk of your time per day. You need this time for tip number 2.

2\. Show up everyday. Start picking books, tutorials, courses, articles on Web Programming, Python, Algorithms, Security, Business, etc. On a daily basis, 2 hours per day. After 2 or 3 years it will be drilled in your head, you will feel competent and grow confidence. It is extremely important that you do this everyday, even on weekends, double it down on weekends.

I feel so much better right now after 4-5 years. My employers consider me a top performer and handle me responsibilities (and compensation) way beyond someone my age.

Vamos hombre!

<comment><AUTHOR> A ver, primero de todo me gustaría decirte que me parece, y con todo el debido respeto, un poco hipócrita decir que eras un estudiante medio considerando que fuistes a la mejor universidad de tu país (no sé, en España si te vas a estudiar a las mejores unis del estado eres considerado listo ya solo de promedio, así que bueno, entiendes lo que te quiero decir, no,en fin).

Gracias por tus consejos, y los intentaré seguir. Me ha sorprendido un poco lo del porno xD. Por suerte no bebo y tal, así que al menos eso a mí no me supone un problema.

Para terminar, me alegro de que ahora mismo estés en una situación laboral buena y que seas uno de los mejores trabajadores en tu empresa. Me gustaría felicitarte por ello ;)

<comment><USER2> No es ser hipocrita. Es muy fácil sentirte "promedio" cuando tienes al lado gente que lleva programando 5-6 años antes que tú. Personas que hicieron su primer app a los 13, un compilador a los 15, un ERP a los 17. Te llevan años de ventaja.

Un estudiante "promedio" va la escuela pasa sus materias; las sufre un poco y se gradua. No destaca, no hace un extra. No importa si estudies en Stanford, Harvard o la Universidad Técnica #116 de tu país. Ser de 'x' o 'y' lugar no hace diferencia.

Una computadora de 200 euros con conexión a internet y disciplina es lo único que necesitas para armarte un futuro.

<comment><AUTHOR> >No es ser hipocrita. Es muy fácil sentirte "promedio" cuando tienes al lado gente que lleva programando 5-6 años antes que tú. Personas que hicieron su primer app a los 13, un compilador a los 15, un ERP a los 17. Te llevan años de ventaja. Un estudiante "promedio" va la escuela pasa sus materias; las sufre un poco y se gradua. No destaca, no hace un extra. No importa si estudies en Stanford, Harvard o la Universidad Técnica #116 de tu país. Ser de 'x' o 'y' lugar no hace diferencia.

Me refería a la capacidad intelectual, no a la experiencia. Y que obviamente, los dos factores importan.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Do you play a lot of video games? If so, I would recommend dropping them completely. At lest until your life is where you want it. I spent all HS playing video games and regret loosing so much time of my life. What's more, they are highly addictive and have severely stunted the progress of many people I know closely. It will probably be hard but you'll be amazed the difference it makes in your ability to work hard and stay motivated.

<comment><USER4> They even killed a young man I know. He dropped out, moved into a friend's basement, played video games and drank only beer. Only beer, for months. Liver damage, death.

<comment><USER5> videogames damaged a man's liver and KILLED him? nah, i don't think so.

<comment><USER4> Don't be deliberately dense. It was the addiction that killed him, made him ignore his health and diet, ignore his friends and family

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> as another spaniard almost 20 years older than you that went through a similar thing:

\- get a service job (supermarket, fast food, warehouse hand, whatever) so you can pay for your driving license (and other stuff) yourself. if you're feeling down, a semblance of self sufficiency will do wonders for you. try to keep that job when you resume your studies.

\- it seems that you're born to immigrant parents. THIS is a competitive advantage if you frame it like so: you know how hard it is for immigrant people to thrive and adapt. maybe easing this difficulties for newcomers is a worthy pursuit?. volunteer while you find a job.

\- stop faking, for other people and mostly for yourself. you seem to know a lot about economy and the job market. you don't. IT in spain doesn't pay that well (moreso if you are inexperienced), and is highly volatile. 'stable' jobs don't exist anymore.

good luck, and be patient. most people around here will treat you as a child until you're at least 7-8 years older. it's okay and normal to feel lost and disheartened.

<comment><USER6> How you figure he was born to immigrant parents?

<comment><USER5> because I read what he posted before I post myself:

      > My parents are also from Ukraine, and in my part of Spain the language commonly spoken "on the streets" is Catalan, so within the timespan of a day I always have to changee between and speak 5 different languages (Outside- > Catalan and Spanish, Computer-> English & Spanish, Family-> Ukrainian and Russian)

<comment><USER7> Wow, that is a skill that should be marketable in itself!

<comment><USER8> Surprisingly less so in Europe.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> > _I chose CS mainly because I've always been interested in tech but just > let's just say in the "consumer-oriented" aspect of it, never really having > acquired a useful skill throughout all the years I've spent in front of a > PC_

So let's assume you gained some power user skills. Can you help people with tech? Can you tweak Windows or slow Android tablet, recover some deleted files with point and click program? Start helping people around, get a job in some tech repair shop. Understand how and why things work. Learn, learn, learn. Once you will see issues and inefficiencies around you, do on-line Python course and start automating things.

There is no rush, give yourself a time to discover your path.

</comment><comment><USER10> I'm reading a book now which I recommend, "The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F^ck", and which has been mentioned on HN before. You may find it helpful or at least interesting.

You communicate naturally, so I encourage you to find a job where you can _talk with_ a lot of different people every day. That will also help expose you to more and different things.

Don't beat yourself up for not fitting into one of the molds that the educational system defines. Read the Steve Jobs biography by Walter Isaacson and you will realize just how much of a misfit he was.

<comment><AUTHOR> > I'm reading a book now which I recommend, "The Subtle Art of Not Giving a > F^ck", and which has been mentioned on HN before. You may find it helpful or > at least interesting.

Great, I'll read it.

> You communicate naturally, so I encourage you to find a job where you can > talk with a lot of different people every day. That will also help expose > you to more and different things.

I'm sorry, but such as? Tech Support?

> Don't beat yourself up for not fitting into one of the molds that the > educational system defines. Read the Steve Jobs biography by Walter Isaacson > and you will realize just how much of a misfit he was.

I'll try to read that too! Yeah, I'm definitely a misfit for sure.

Thanks for your response :)

<comment><USER11> > You communicate naturally, so I encourage you to find a job where you can > talk with a lot of different people every day. That will also help expose > you to more and different things.

I guess product-related (PO, PM), UX-related or business-developer/sales jobs, maybe for tech companies

<comment><AUTHOR> I guess I have to ask how does one get started with that?

<comment><USER12> You'll need some kind of degree to get a first job in such area. CS degrees are the best for it, but it should be possible to pull it off with a business degree that has some tech focus.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER13> > but I'd say the biggest one by far is my own laziness and lack of will to > actually work...

How do you feel about military service?

In the US; voluntary military service is seen as a path to gain discipline, experience, and academic scholarships. España may have similar benefits > [http://www.reclutamiento.defensa.gob.es/como- ingresar/reserv...](http://www.reclutamiento.defensa.gob.es/como- ingresar/reservistas-voluntarios/que-es-ser-reservista-voluntario/)

<comment><USER14> I feel too old for service now, but out of curiosity - where can people serve if they don't agree with the political/military climate? Ie, I always wanted to serve but I didn't want to go kill largely innocent people in other countries.

Eventually I realized that the police force was far more up my alley. Yet, even that is difficult due to the militarization of the police force and the general unrest between civilians and police.

Is there an area that feels largely.. good? A mostly positive force for humanity? To serve the betterment of others, not so much war?

NOTE: I hope you _(readers)_ can take my question at face value, and not argue my opinions regarding police and/or military. No judgement intended, but my question is all I am hoping to discuss :)

<comment><USER13> > where can people serve if they don't agree with the political/military > climate?

Start looking at Humanitarian and Civil Service organizations.

A few with Global Reach -

> > [http://www.caritasmadrid.org/voluntariado](http://www.caritasmadrid.org/voluntariado)

> [https://www.unv.org/](https://www.unv.org/)

> > [https://www.volunteermatch.org/search/org997668.jsp](https://www.volunteermatch.org/search/org997668.jsp)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> Your post could have been made by me in 1995. I barely graduated high school and had lied a lot, mostly to my parents. I joined the US Air Force and some time in there, I just decided that lying was more trouble than it is worth. Now, I never lie. Ever. Period. It is very freeing. Now, as for your career. I wouldn't be so down about not knowing what to do. My career track was Air Force->College->Electrical Engineer->Technical Sales->Embedded Engineer->Software Developer

Not necessarily the model of climbing the ladder, but I've learned something at every stop along the way. It's amazing the things that seem trivial at the time, but 20 years later still provide value.

It sounds like you may need to spend some time on what kind of person you want to be. Don't put too much of your identity into what you do for money. Maybe spend some time trying to help others. Helping others can put your own struggles into perspective.

Good luck. I'll be praying for you.

<comment><AUTHOR> Interesting to see people having different life paths. Thanks for sharing your personal story :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> > _I also don't know how to study or actually learn things by the way._

I just posted this in a different thread, but it's very relevant here:

For the idea of building and improving the analytical part of your brain, I highly recommend the Coursera course Learning How to Learn by Dr. Barbara Oakley. [0] An excerpt from her Wikipedia page[1]:

 _After her Army duties ended, Oakley decided to challenge herself and see if her brain, more used to the study of languages, could be 'retooled' to study mathematical subjects. She chose to study engineering, in order to better understand the communications equipment she had been working with in the Army._

[0]: [https://www.coursera.org/learn/learning-how-to- learn](https://www.coursera.org/learn/learning-how-to-learn) [1]: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Oakley](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Oakley)

<comment><AUTHOR> Interesting, I'll check this out indeed.

</comment></comment><comment><USER17> -> I chose CS mainly because I've always been interested in tech but just let's just say in the "consumer-oriented" aspect of it, never really having acquired a useful skill throughout all the years I've spent in front of a PC being an introvert in HS, other than I guess ENG. And so, during my 1st semester I failed all of my finals.

Have you ever thought of something else for your job? If you haven't got any motivation in this, you might consider looking elsewhere.

</comment><comment><USER18> Hey try reading this article by Tim Urban [https://waitbutwhy.com/2018/04/picking- career.html](https://waitbutwhy.com/2018/04/picking-career.html)

<comment><AUTHOR> Wow, really interesting and informative. I'll try to read the link carefully and actually get to understand what the author is trying to convey.

Thanks a lot!

</comment></comment><comment><USER19> I do not mean this to be mean, it is something that made me feel less stupid and worthless when I was younger. Smart doesn't often succeed all by itself, but hard work usually does.

You gotta put in the work if you want the result. Luckily, you can choose your own challenges.

Maybe you're not a book learner. Try getting a job shadowing someone with some skills you want and learning on the job. Maybe try online development classes instead of school. Hell, start hacking around with unity3d or something fun if you want to feel like you're not wasting your time while learning.

</comment><comment><USER20> > 19

19 year old Spanish guy. Hear me clearly: YOU HAVE SO MUCH TIME!

One of the big down sides to being a millennial (maybe you're Generation Z?) is that we've grown up in an era that makes us believe that if we aren't Zuckerbot by the time we're 22 then we've failed and are slacking.

Simply not true.

Plenty of other commenters will give you advice related to other things, but let me just say again, for emphasis: MAN, YOU HAVE SO MUCH TIME TO DO EVERYTHING AND ACHIEVE EVERYTHING. In no way have you "f@ck3d your life permanently". You have so much time. Make the most, out of the rest of it :)

Cheers

<comment><AUTHOR> Hahaha, thanks for your advice. But I understand that to "make it" one has to start young, for better or worse.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> there is a series of books by this woman named Barbara Oakley, she studied languages while she did military service because all throughout her schooling she felt bad at math and science, now she has a PHd in Engineering, you might get something out of reading them, the first one (or at least the more influential one) is called "A Mind for Numbers"

there are also other books you might get something out of, thinking about pursuing a career in web development, which is related to computer science and programming, too many to list, but a couple I've read recently and think are really worth reading are "How to Solve it" by G. Polya, and "Think Like a Programmer" by V. Anton Spraul

also, don't feel to down for flunking, or get the idea that vocational school is less worthwhile than University (short them, maybe, but if you're good, it doesn't matter if you didn't get a University Degree, I myself have a job as a Software Developer and haven't gotten a degree)

do be honest from now on, and stay disciplined, there was this guy (can't remember the name right now) who said that we aren't truly free unless we are disciplined, for we are slaves to our bodily urges, and to our laziness, or something to that effect

asking for help is a start, stay motivated!

<comment><AUTHOR> Already started reading one of those books, thanks, stay motivated in life you too ;)

</comment></comment><comment><USER22> Do you really want to do CS? If not, that is OK! There is no One True Path (TM) to geek bliss.

Is there anything else you'd like to do? Maybe something that's more of a technician role, where you use tech rather than designing it? Say, like an auto mechanic or IT administration, where you'll be using your hands and "doing" rather than cranking out lines of code.

Also, good on ya for going to talk to a professional. I was in a similar jam a while back and it made all the difference.

<comment><AUTHOR> > Do you really want to do CS? If not, that is OK! There is no One True Path > (TM) to geek bliss.

I hope, but here in Spain, may I reiterate, it's a stable job so you get an idea why I like CS further than just liking because of whatever other reason, and all the other paths other than software development are weird and very not stable. I like CS, but I am lazy and again, not very smart (which I am not ashamed I am not very smart and so on, it's just a matter of fact, call it IQ call it whatever, I don't have a talent for logic).

> Is there anything else you'd like to do? Maybe something that's more of a > technician role, where you use tech rather than designing it? Say, like an > auto mechanic or IT administration, where you'll be using your hands and > "doing" rather than cranking out lines of code.

I don't like cars so auto-mechanic is sadly a no-no for me, IDK about IT Administration, afaik, most people get to be managers and such at IT Companies after being for some years proficient coders and software developers, which I guess would not be the best path for me. But indeed, I should investigate!

> Also, good on ya for going to talk to a professional. I was in a similar jam > a while back and it made all the difference.

Great for you :)! After going to the doctor here a lot recently because of many reasons, she finally decided to send me to one, so we'll see how it goes!

Thank you for your response :)

<comment><USER22> In my case, I felt that I desperately wanted to work hard, but getting into a state of flow was rare, and as deadlines approached I often felt like I was pushing an unstable boulder uphill, like Sisyphus. This caused, and sometimes still causes, some terrible procrastination issues. I felt so guilty when I turned in mediocre efforts when I could have done so much more. In my case, it turned out to be anxiety issues (though everyone is different). Now that I recognize what was going awry, I can face it head on, and I am getting better every day.

It sounds like you're doing all that you can, friend. By the way, I think you're selling yourself short; you're a great communicator, especially for someone writing in a non-native language. That is absolutely NOT the mark of a lazy or unclever person.

Best of luck in your future endevours! :)

<comment><AUTHOR> >In my case, I felt that I desperately wanted to work hard, but getting into a state of flow was rare, and as deadlines approached I often felt like I was pushing an unstable boulder uphill, like Sisyphus. I felt so guilty, even though I love my field. In my case, it turned out to be anxiety issues (though everyone is different!)

Interesting, I think I too share this "state of mind", so to speak. Sometimes I think more about how I should be working instead of doing whatever that when I actually get to do "work" I don't do it "properly" or "adequately" because I am simply "anxious" and the only thing I can think about is simply not fucking up instead of doing what should be done, just working. Hopefully that's your "similar" problem, however couple that with depression and laziness and you've got a recipe for failure like me ;)

But it's great that going to the psychologist helped you out.

I'm gonna assume you're American because the rule of thumb is to assume everyone is American on the English Internet by default because statistically it's more likely to be true and say that going to the psychologist is probably like more accepted there than here? Like here in Spain it took a little bit of convincing or "thinking" for my "public healthcare" doctor to assign me to a psychologist so IDK. Either way, great!

>It sounds like you're testing several avenues, friend. By the way, I think you're selling yourself short; you're a great communicator, especially for someone writing in a non-native language.

_Makes random mistake while writing, gets over-anxious about it as a consequence of being praised for (etc..)_ :)

Hahaha, thanks. That's what you get as a reward for years and years of Introversion spending lots of time alone reading and commenting on reddit and more recently (over the last year or so) on HN and watching YouTube content in English everyday hahaha :)

My parents are also from Ukraine, and in my part of Spain the language commonly spoken "on the streets" is Catalan, so within the timespan of a day I always have to changee between and speak 5 different languages (Outside- > Catalan and Spanish, Computer-> English & Spanish, Family-> Ukrainian and Russian), sometimes even within a time frame of a minute, so I'm just used to "different languages" in general (sometimes I even wonder how do I not mix all of those 5 languages up and I've found that I tend to do that more at the spoken irl level, actually). But seriously, I am bad at math and that sucks for me :P

>Best of luck in your future endevours! :)

You too!

<comment><USER9> > Outside- > Catalan and Spanish, Computer-> English & Spanish, Family-> > Ukrainian and Russian

Wow, your language skills look decent. Join it with some IT curiosity and make some help website/forum/services for Ukrainian and Russian people in Spain, you would be surprised how much demand it may bring you. You can try get Certified Translator title too both in Spain and Ukraine to boost credibility. I know Central European immigrant who did it in Spain -- constant flow of customers.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER23> Do not overwhelm yourself with all that happened. Write down all the things you want to do in your life. You are only 19 and you can achieve a lot. Start by doing little of whatever you want to learn, like coding. Give yourself some time to accomplish what you want. But the key is keep learning little by little everyday. In next few years you can still get good in computer science and also become a good web developer. Good luck.

</comment><comment><USER24> I can relate with some parts of this story. Used to be a "throwaway" kid with no future, dropped out of high school, etc.

The best advice I can give you is to not care about education (it's a waste of time for the most part) and learn to solve _real_ problems. Every second of your free "work" time (don't forget to also take time off to go out and enjoy yourself) should be _invested_ into your skills so you get a return on that investment later. When you're doing something, ask yourself how is this relevant to your goal of earning money and whether it will give you a skill/experience you can reuse later. If it can't, then stop and do something else.

Learn a web framework (I recommend Django); web development is easy and doesn't require advanced theoretical knowledge (where a CS degree might actually be useful), pays well and will stay relevant even in the "apps" era as those still need a backend server to talk to. This will also give you the ability to build projects end-to-end which is extremely valuable when you're trying to launch your own startup and don't necessarily have the funding to pay someone just to make you an MVP.

Once you do this, build a few projects, open-source them (just so you have a portfolio to show off) and then move out to London or similar non-shit town where people are valued by their experience and skills instead of meaningless pieces of paper (I am from France and this was the situation there, and I assume Spain is sadly similar although there might be a startup scene in Barcelona so maybe try there?).

Good luck!

<comment><AUTHOR> > I can relate with some parts of this story. Used to be a "throwaway" kid > with no future, dropped out of high school, etc.

> The best advice I can give you is to not care about education (it's a waste > of time for the most part) and learn to solve real problems. Every second of > your free "work" time (don't forget to also take time off to go out and > enjoy yourself) should be invested into your skills so you get a return on > that investment later. When you're doing something, ask yourself how is this > relevant to your goal of earning money and whether it will give you a > skill/experience you can reuse later. If it can't, then stop and do > something else.

Capitalism at work :), but yes. I also find it hard to self-asses if what I am doing sometimes is "lucrative" or not.

> Learn a web framework (I recommend Django); web development is easy and > doesn't require advanced theoretical knowledge (where a CS degree might > actually be useful), pays well and will stay relevant even in the "apps" era > as those still need a backend server to talk to. This will also give you the > ability to build projects end-to-end which is extremely valuable when you're > trying to launch your own startup and don't necessarily have the funding to > pay someone just to make you an MVP.

Okay, I could get started on that. Thanks for making a specific recommendation, I'll look into it for sure.

> Once you do this, build a few projects, open-source them (just so you have a > portfolio to show off) and then move out to London or similar non-shit town > where people are valued by their experience and skills instead of > meaningless pieces of paper (I am from France and this was the situation > there, and I assume Spain is sadly similar although there might be a startup > scene in Barcelona so maybe try there?).

Hahaha, I can't move out of Spain atm because of family reasons sadly so London is a big no-no for me and sadly Barcelona is expensive "af^99" compared to literally anywhere else in Spain, except maybe Bilbao or Madrid especially housing wise. I've heard about Barcelona's vibrant startup scene (afaik it's the biggest one in S. Europe) and I also speak Catalan Natively but I'm not Catalan (actually it's my "first-first native language, other than Spanish" which means I am already ahead integration wise vs other people there, but again it's just too darn expensive. But I guess I'll see if I make it after vocational school.

I've read the situation in France in regard to what we call here "titulitis" (titulo-> degree, "degreetitis" making it sound like a bad medical condition) and that it's hard for people there to get an engineering job unless they have master.

In Spain it's also bad but afaik with Vocational School it's better but not great.

Also, we got fucked pretty hard with the Bologna Plan in regard to unis.

If anyone who reads this understands Spanish, this video is a must watch to just comprehend how much we got royally fucked over: [https://youtu.be/sUYBKSm9Si4](https://youtu.be/sUYBKSm9Si4)

> Good luck!

You too, thanks for your response, neighbor :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER25> Here is my crazy idea.

Walk "El camino de Santiago". This will give you a daily goal, it will keep you busy and it will get you out of the current depressing routine, allowing you to reset your mind. You will meet new people and change your outlook on the world. It will also increase your confidence.

<comment><AUTHOR> Heh, heh. To be completely honest a little bit too fat for it atm, and I don't exactly want to go to the Northern Part of my country that has (and this is factually true) a worse weather rain wise than England especially during autumn.

But I can see how it can be a life changing experience :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER26> Take a step back and let's look at what you've done, what you're good at and what you love to do.

More often that not, we tend to overlook what we're good at and simply passing it off but to others, it might be an incredible skill to have that can be applied in many different instances.

</comment><comment><USER27> For studying I basically followed this: [http://calnewport.com/blog/2011/05/18/anatomy-of-an-a-a- look...](http://calnewport.com/blog/2011/05/18/anatomy-of-an-a-a-look-inside- the-process-of-one-of-the-worlds-most-efficient-studiers/)

tl;dr, you write compressed notes, or cornell notes style, which is all the concepts presented to you in a semester. You then attempt to teach these concepts to an invisible class: "If you can't, out loud or on paper, explain the idea without confusion or contradiction, stop and figure it out right there."

If you've been an end-user for most of your life, you are probably good at user interface design having used an endless sequence of shitty UI. This course has almost everything open like recorded lectures [http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~bam/uicourse/05863fall17/schedule.htm...](http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~bam/uicourse/05863fall17/schedule.html) then go about practicing by redesigning free templates for Shopify/Wordpress or create your own.

CS curriculum for me consisted entirely of terribly boring Java courses to the point I considered dropping out, as I was just doing the bare minimum of work to stay afloat, until I abandoned the recommended curriculum and started taking complexity theory classes. Theoretical CS for me at least was motivating and interesting, maybe it will be for you, go through some of this playlist, see if you're interested. If you are then if it's possible try to re-enroll in university, and use expii.com to practice basic math [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWnu2XymDtORV-- qG2uG5eQ/pla...](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWnu2XymDtORV-- qG2uG5eQ/playlists)

<comment><AUTHOR> Interesting :)

</comment></comment><comment><USER28> OK. This is a throaway account, I'm a Software Engineer with 10 years of experience working in Madrid. Currently head of development of a 5-people team. This is my advice, take it if you want.

# About failing in University

Failing some semesters in Ingeniería Informática (Computer Science in Spanish universities for our English speaking friends) is normal. Nobody pass the exams on the first try but:

\- People with extensive Math experience (not my case). \- People that study like all day (my case). \- Gifted people (sadly also not my case).

So, you're not less than anybody. From I remember, the average time the students spent to achieve the degree was like 7-9 years. I spent 5 + 1/2 years (I know I'm old and our degrees were 5 years) but had no social life (apart from my girlfriend) and ended the degree with a anxiety, depression, stress... Let's say my mental health was deficient.

In recent years the degree has improved and Software Engineering degree (at least in Madrid) has more practice classes and has less theoretical content.

# About lying, depression, seen a psychologist

Everything you have written is normal. You are not a freak or are damaged, stupid or whatever deleterious thing you think about yourself. You were unprepared for one of the most difficult degrees in Spain. High School is a joke and (during my time) nobody had enough foundations to pass the tests without private teachers help or without studying very hard. You are most of people.

Maybe this is an unpopular opinion but do not lie, be a man and accept what you are and the consequences of your actions.

You think you are not smart? Do you think that everybody that is successful is smart? They work like hell and work in a smart way (like checking old tests of a subject when studying).

What are you passioned about?

During recent times when I'm low of morale I like to read "Marcus Aurelius Meditations" [1] and watch motivational videos [2][3][4][5] (funny isn't it? But it works). Once you know in your inner-self that your life is ephemeral and you are destined to greatness, you'll start working.

I visited two psychologist for years after university (and other health issues that depressed me). It helped me to gain confidence and believe in myself. Also, how to be organized and to know that I was not crazy and that my feelings were normal.

# Study/Work/Etc.

Have two plans: short-term and long-term. My advice would be:

## Short term

Study your vocational degree and do some projects on the side. Useful projects that motivate you. Try to start working at a job as soon as you end your studies (if you can, choose a "dual FP" (FP with emphasis in real work practices).

Hop each year or two years until you are earning enough money to live a comfortable life. Now the hard part starts.

## Long term

During your short term period you have discovered:

\- You crave for understanding of the foundations of software. \- You have a glass ceiling if you don't have an University degree.

Do not panic. Enroll in a distance university (UNED is fine, Universidad de Burgos seems easier but more expensive, etc.) and take some courses each year. You'll graduate in like 7-8 years. I know you'll have to make sacrifices like studying in the summer and in the weekends but keep the good work. When you graduate you'll have enough real-work experience to double your salary and from now on, increase each year or couple of years.

Move to where the work is, i.e. Madrid.

# Corolarium

I hope I've helped you, or at least I've given you something to think about.

If you want more advice or need to talk about your future, I'm available at email@example.com.

[1] [https://www.amazon.es/Meditaciones-Serie-Great- Ideas-12/dp/8...](https://www.amazon.es/Meditaciones-Serie-Great- Ideas-12/dp/8430601031/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_0/261-2454397-0152026?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=NPRB7HDKWJWWEDM7CK30)

[2] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFalmesXWMY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFalmesXWMY)

[3] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjejTQdK5OI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjejTQdK5OI)

[4] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21FHc9hN- WI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21FHc9hN-WI)

[5] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abeAA6Apt80](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abeAA6Apt80)

<comment><AUTHOR> Perdón por no haberte contestado antes. Acabo de leer todo lo que has escrito y lo he intentado comprender bien leyéndolo de manera atenta. Gracias por haber respondido al hilo :)

>So, you're not less than anybody. From I remember, the average time the students spent to achieve the degree was like 7-9 years. I spent 5 + 1/2 years (I know I'm old and our degrees were 5 years) but had no social life (apart from my girlfriend) and ended the degree with a anxiety, depression, stress... Let's say my mental health was deficient.

Jajaja, entonces ni teníais el plan bolonia, sí que eres viejuno de verdad ;)

En fin, me he leído todo lo que me has escrito. «Acepto» tus consejos, excepto dos.

1\. Lo de irme a vivir a Madrid. A ver, no sé si me explico, soy valenciano, estuve una vez en Madrid hace poco y no me gustó mucho, la verdad, en todo caso creo que hay según tengo entendido bastante trabajo en la area metropolitana de Valencia así que primero de todo empezaría por ir a buscar trabajo de por aquí más cerquita.

2\. A día de hoy tengo pensado hacer un FP en DAW or DAM primero de todo, antes de pensar en «volver» a la universidad o lo que sea. ¿Piensas que el FP sería un error para mi?

Bueno, muchas gracias por todo otra vez, y me cuesta pero estoy intentando de cualquier manera, ya desde hace 4 meses, aceptar que es normal (y según recuerdo se da en el 60% de los casos) que me haya dejado la carrera de i. informática, aunque de verdad sea una putada muy grande. Lo peor de todo es que sabía perfectamente que esto en su momento ya me podía pasar y tal, pero nunca tomé las medidas adecuadas para prevenir lo evitable.</comment></comment>


Ask HN: I wrote CricketGraph MVP in the browser – should I continue? - <AUTHOR> One of my favorite apps for the Mac in the late 80's was CricketGraph. I would regularly use it to spice up documents in school - I'm certain it improved my score by a letter grade in certain classes. Since then, charting has been done a thousands times, but I've always wanted to take my run at it:
http://reportmill.com/rmc
This version pops up quickly in the browser, supports fun animations and interactive effects, has a built in designer in every chart and runs in browser, on desktop and on server (in JavaScript and Java). I've only got a couple of months invested in it, but with so much competition out there, I don't know how much further I should take it. I'd love to spend years adding many fun new features, but I don't know if there is a way to turn it into a day job.
Any thoughts?
jeff at reportmill <comment><USER2> I cant click on "data set" or the other tabs in the sandbox.

I have been building some charts in Google Sheets - Maybe you can make an add- on for sheets such that you can point this at sheets as the data-set?

<comment><AUTHOR> That's a great idea. Though I wonder if I would have a cross-origin problem accessing another site (I'm a bit new to JavaScript).

</comment></comment><comment><AUTHOR> Here is the link as a proper URL: [http://reportmill.com/rmc](http://reportmill.com/rmc)</comment>


Ask HN: Gay bashing at bayarea tech company—What do? - <AUTHOR> I work for a large tech company in the bay area. We often eat lunch on site. Last week one of my coworkers (tho not on my direct team) went on a ~5min rant at lunch in front of a number of my team members. The rant was basically about "The GAYS" and how awful it was that they are in clubs and bars of SOMA (where I live). <comment><USER2> Sometimes certain groups of people have a darker sense of humor, and often resort to absurd, obnoxious, and offensive forms of humor. I know I do. Understand that this person is just another person, and probably got too comfortable on a rant meant for just his friends and spoke louder than he should have. If it's a consistent thing, at least confront the guy on the side, you two might be able to have a laugh about it. If he persists and rants right in your face, yeah, put his job on the line and take it to HR.

He's just another person and we all fuck up. I totally get no one should have to put up with this in the workplace, but was his transgression so bad that you can't at least talk to him first. I honestly don't think being offended is worse than putting someone's livelihood in jeopardy. The man may be an idiot, but he might have kids, a wife, who knows.

<comment><USER3> Let me put this across in a different way. Suppose you are interviewing a guy and he expresses the same opinion. Hell, let us change the context bit (assuming you are American/European), assume he comes by and tells you that he think that Jews are controlling the media or denies the holocaust. Would you laugh it off and be OK with hiring him? After all, it could just be him having a darker sense of humor. After all, he might have kids, a wife, who knows.

Yes, we all fuck up in life. Guess what, sometimes, second chances are hard to come by.

<comment><USER4> Second comment, you're an idiot. This is crazy talk.

Get some perspective.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I would write down all the details of the conversation including but not limited to who was there and what was said as soon as possible. Try be as unbiased and impartial as possible. Hopefully, your large tech company has an HR division that you can lodge a complaint to. Contact them and ask them what the process is. Take your written thoughts and convert them into a letter to the department.

<comment><USER6> Absolutely. This is not acceptable behavior. Silence encourages other bad behavior and contributes to a toxic atmosphere. The duration of the rant makes this not a accidental slip.

HR needs to be involved.

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> If a gay woman had been ranting about all "The GUYS" and how awful it was that they are in the clubs and bars of SOMA would you have felt the same way?

Genuinely not implying that you wouldn't have, but I think it's worth considering. Not having heard what was said it's hard to offer much in the way of an opinion.

<comment><USER8> This has nothing to do with the OP's question, stop trying to divert attention away to your own agenda.

<comment><USER7> I must just be a bigot with an agenda, you're right.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER9> Report him to Thought Control and get the rats on his face STAT.

Whatever happened to just socially shunning people like this? I guess the lure to exercise newfound oppressive power is just too strong, and so the cycle continues.

</comment><comment><USER10> I've said a lot stupid shit in my time. I'm glad I had a chance to learn and change.

<comment><USER11> How did you learn and change?

<comment><USER12> For me, it was like this:

I went to lunch with two co-workers. The waitress brought us glasses of waters (and straws) before our meal. The other two guys started getting their straws out of those little paper tubes they come in, but I just picked up my glass and took a sip. I said, "straight guys don't use straws" \- not meaning it as anything more than a gentle bit of smack talk.

A bit later, I found out that one of the two was gay.

Was I trying to offend? No. Was I being offensive? Probably. Am I now more sensitive about it? Certainly - not because HR got on my case, but because I now know that I have a friend who is gay, and I can see the situation at least somewhat through his eyes.

Will I find some other way to screw up and be insensitive in the future? Probably - I'm not the most socially clued-in guy. But I'm not going to try to be offensive, and I'm learning to be more sensitive than I was.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> First, don't do anything that will likely hurt your own situation. If you have a reasonable belief the HR team or others would share your identity along with the disclosure, and you don't feel confident you can quickly find a new job , don't do it.

First prize is speaking to them yourself. Let them know that you considered it inappropriate and why - that it might be hurtful to others (or that it was hurtful to you), may lead them to not enjoy working at the company, may lead to them having various troubles, &c. Probably no need to take it further if you believe they've taken your feedback on.

Otherwise, assuming you consider it safe, speak to someone in HR at the very least. Ask them what the policies are and what would likely happen, and feel comfortable you can share the identity of the person without them getting instantly fired, if that's bothering you.

If you can and feel comfortable, speak to their manager. That's what their manager is there to discuss with them. They hopefully have a good rapport and this can be brought up in their next discussion.

If you have a good relationship with your manager, talk to them - but realise that they're obligated to inform the HR department about it.

If your company has an "Employee Resource Group" for LGBT employees, speak to someone in it (if you're in a sufficiently "large tech company in the bay area", it will probably have one).

(If you're at Facebook, firstly, I think you should feel comfortable doing all the above without fear of any downside, but I'd be happy to talk to you about it in person or online and connect you with the right people.)

</comment><comment><USER13> The person behaved as an unvarnished moron which put everyone that listened to that rant into even more potentially very awkward situations with HR. There's a double standard of not narcing but also not letting it go unchecked. More than likely the individual will fail on their own. "Live and let die" is my motto, unless they become too much of an obvious liability in which case an "innocent" question may be the most expedient.

PS: It's sad that hate is alive and well in Moscow, where hate language, behavior and attitude unchecked has led to wrongly labeling them pedophiles and patrols beating up anyone suspected of being gay. It's disgusting. Russia really needs a gay rights movement and a broader cultural/political revolution to modernize in line with more "civilized" countries. [http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/01/russia-rise- hom...](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/01/russia-rise-homophobic- violence)

<comment><USER3> This 'not narcing' bullshit has to go sometimes. This is one of the reasons it is so hard to bring cops to justice.

<comment><USER13> <rant>A few are shameless crooks with a badge and a gun, some are just unprofessionaly aggressive and there's a few good ones here and there. The prob is for them: does someone "betray" a fellow officer whom has their life in their hands? The police leadership has to be solid, set the tone and be relentless about actual professionalism and service, instead of being a menace to the community.</rant>

Perhaps police should all have "GoPro" cameras permanently on them and their vehicles streaming live to a web archive whenever they're on duty (apart from bathroom, etc.) so that whatever happens is permanent part of the public record.

<comment><USER14> Police deal with vulnerable people on a regular basis. Putting everything they do on public record would cause a lot of harm.

Not that I'm saying there shouldn't, ideally, be some definitive record of events - and technology seems to be getting there. But the conflicting demands for accountability and privacy can be pretty complex.

If you're dealing with a kid who's been cautioned for drug possession, who gets to look at those records? If someone reports a rape?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> Hah. I had this issue with a former roommate (engineer working for a 'large tech' company in SF) who used to bash gay people all the time. When I called him out on this shit, he said that he couldn't be homophobic because he "lived in San Francisco."

<comment><USER15> "So did Dan White?"

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> Did you say anything?

</comment><comment><AUTHOR> The whole thing deeply saddened and bothered me. I am just not sure what to do about it.

<comment><USER17> Why didn't you call him out at the time? That's not a dig; I genuinely wonder why. Is he a friend? More influential than you? Did others seem to be agreeing with him?

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> I feel pity for the people who rants about gays or gays who rant about people. Such waste of time. Our ancestors were smarter on this matter, none of them wasted time on this for sure.

</comment><comment><USER19> The tech crowd is already in enough trouble for driving the poor / non-white / non-IT out of SF (or appearing to) due to the gentrification thanks to all the money sloshing around these days.

Now homosexuals are going to have to leave SF? Christ.

Tell this idiot to read a history book and then report him to HR. He'd better leave SF and he'd be much happier if he is going to have that attitude.</comment>


Three critically injured after car crashes into Palo Alto coffee shop - <AUTHOR> http://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2014/07/31/three-critically-injured-after-car-crashes-into-downtown-coffee-shop

<comment><USER2> It's unfortunate to see that Uber's forays into caffeine delivery are off to such a rocky start. :(</comment>


Initiative Q: pyramid scheme or next Bitcoin? - <AUTHOR> https://initiativeq.com/ <comment><USER2> Why people persist with "next" whatever. It should be clear by now that this king makes whatever. I feel it is a decent investment strategy - next bitcoin, next Telsa, Tesla killer - etc. Buy Bitcoin, Buy Tesla.

</comment><comment><USER3> There has been at least 10,000 "Next Bitcoin" projects and Bitcoin remains #1

</comment><comment><USER4> By some derivation of Betteridge's Law of Headlines, the answer is "pyramid scheme".</comment>


Erlang functional language supports concurrency inherently and seamlessly - <AUTHOR>

I am baffeled by Erlang, a functional programming language that inherently supports concurrency. This is a language that has been out since 1992 by Ericson and Swedish CS labs but only recently is getting some attention.
This shows two problems: 1.	That despite this has been long needed, since multicores were out, but we did not know about it until recently. And still largely in the dark compared with other popular languages. 2.	This draws us to more pressing question: how many technologies out there, are still under publicized, eagerly needed, can be true economic drivers, and still obscure? 3.	We can not revive the economy or create a better world unless we truly think outside the box and get VC support properly <comment><USER2> With reference to point #2, I would respectfully submit that Erlang is not an "economic driver".

Personally, when it comes to concurrent programming I'm more inclined to look at Clojure than Erlang but, when I surf the job sites - I don't see any job postings for either language.

That's not to say there aren't any places with a need for these two languages, I just think there's a long way before a critical mass level is hit to even match Ruby on Rails.

<comment><USER3> I'm seeing companies that manage to stay competitive because they are using Erlang. If a company manages to make things happen with less resources, it means that resources are available to invest in other things.

To me that is enough to qualify as an "economic driver".

If your argument is that Erlang is not contributing more to GNP than what disappear in rounding errors (or even that), then sure, companies using Erlang are contributing peanuts compared to what products from companies like Microsoft and Oracle are.

<comment><USER2> If you're seeing companies that use it to stay competitive, then that's a good sign.

I was simply pondering on the whole discussion because I have yet to see a posting requiring usage or or experience with, Erlang.

Not to say they're not out there, just I haven't seen it yet.

<comment><AUTHOR> Exactly. well said. this is the issue I am trying to raise. Companies are not hiring Erlang programmers, because they simply do not know what they are missing. what you don't know, hurts you more. existing problems are there that need to be resolved but there is lack of awareness on what's new and what is out there that can address the problem directly and efficiently and most economically. We have idle multi core processors that are underutilized since around a decade now, and we scale our load balancing by buying more servers. We need strong matrix arithmatic computers, so we buy higher colck cycles with multi cores setting idle, all underutilized with multi threading which was designed for single core CPUs back in the 70s and 80s.

All that is supposed to change, when Microsoft launches .NET 4 and C# 4.0 with it which is the first concurrent programming language from Microsoft and along with that Microsoft is supposed to raise awareness on multi core, and concerrency. And this is the problem!

The industry, economy, development and evolution of systems can not be held back pending a single company like Microsoft, Apple, etc.

Computer science and it's applications need to be utilized properly and timely.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> The title doesn't match the point of the question very well.

"How many technologies out there are well kept secret weapons" or something similar would be better.

</comment><comment> a-priori "True economic drivers" are not made so by being wonderful technologies (although that can't hurt). They're made so by convincing those with money that they are, usually through marketing clout. But, success stories and grassroots marketing work too.

So far, Erlang has not had this. So if you think it belongs in the spotlight, then by all means, make something awesome with it. Get on the front page of the Wall Street Journal or something and talk about it, then people may listen.

<comment><AUTHOR> But maybe there is more to do. you see, it can not always be a single effort.

I suggest that, we technologists and computer scientists might have the responsibility to lead and share in our local societies. If we create a star fish model technology interest groups that work to share knowledge in local communities. host meetings for training locally. use public schools and at the same time educate youth on the new emerging programming languages and systems. invite local corporate IT managers, and IT staff, business decision makers to local meetings to raise awareness on Erlang and other technologies as well. Show casing each. then we can get funded by these very companies that benefit from such services.

botom line is, economic drivers, can be created using new technologies, when understanding propagates on the value put with each of these new technologies. however, untilnow, the history of that course has been tightly coupled with corporate america as opposed to grass roots efforts whcih work on creating these technologies.

Venture capitalests, would find it easier to fund emerging technology companies when public awareness is already there about them.</comment></comment>


The Genesis of the Gang (1899) - <AUTHOR> http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1899/09/the-genesis-of-the-gang/305737/?single_page=true

<comment><USER2> Whoa! This is interesting, but reading it is _work_.

> Apart from its religious aspect, seen from the angle of the community's > interest wholly, the matter is of the gravest import.

And most of the sentences are like that. Is this really what the people of 1899 considered to be effective communication? Or is it more a kind of poetry- in-prose-form that one was supposed to skim in order to pick up some sort of vague gist?

<comment><USER3> I think the language is slightly archaic, but with patience we adapt quickly. Also, perhaps it was written with a more literate audience in mind than the average modern newspaper which targets a modest reading skill level ([http://www.impact- information.com/impactinfo/literacy.htm](http://www.impact- information.com/impactinfo/literacy.htm)).

Factoid I learned from article: in 1899 beer was already carried in "growlers", so named for the noise made when it's carbonation was disturbed ([http://www.beeradvocate.com/articles/384/](http://www.beeradvocate.com/articles/384/)).</comment></comment>


Open Courses done right: Saylor Foundation - <AUTHOR> http://reganmian.net/blog/2011/03/25/open-course-done-right-saylor-foundation/ <comment><USER2> This is a fantastic idea. I was complaining the other day about the lack of a good collection that pulls in resources from all over to create full programs.

The problem, from what I can see of the courses marked "complete" or "semi- complete" seems to be that they treat each subject like a collection of concepts that you learn, then somehow synthesize in your mind, then you're done. It's not particularly cohesive.

This is true for Single-variable calculus, a course marked complete, as well as for introductory computer science, a course marked semi-complete. Quite frankly the MIT OCW intro to computer science course does a far better job of focusing on the things that matter and presenting them in a cohesive manner.

With that said, my intent is not to shit all over this because I think this is a great and worthwhile effort. I just hope the quality of the content goes up over time :-)

</comment><comment><USER3> The article, when talking about the disadvantages of MIT OpenCourseWare and other "big OER" projects, mentions that textbooks can cost a lot of money. This can be true, but sometimes it isn't. A lot of courses are using older textbook editions. These can often be bought used for very low prices.

I'm posting this so others using online resources will check to see whether getting the book is practical before dismissing it out of hand.</comment>


Startup Playbook (2015) - <AUTHOR> https://playbook.samaltman.com/ <comment><USER2> I just re-read this for the first time in years--it needs a re-write. I will try!

But first this has inspired me to get to work on the forgotten Part II.

<comment><USER3> Hi Sam! Can you please interact a little more with the HN community? I realize you are an extremely busy man, but drop in here once in a while and just...comment. Not to stir up a hornet's nest, but weighing in on YC related news once in a while is not a bad idea. Eg- No doubt you and YC are well intentioned people and the YC china move, while controversial, is probably a reasonable move. A private company can only do so much when dealing with powerful nations, and as long as you are not directly aiding governments do all the controversial things you hear about in the news, that's about as good as you can do. What was disappointing for me was this: YC is starting to feel just like any other big company, staying silent on controversial topics and not responding to criticism. I'm starting to feel like there's a disconnect between the community and the company. This makes me sad since YC was pretty much the opposite of what big companies stand for. My advice : be open, respond to criticism, don't stay silent on touchy topics, encourage YC staff to share their opinions on controversial topics. It's ok if your own staff don't agree with you, it's ok to agree to disagree. In short : don't become just another big company. Please note that this comment was made in good faith and please remain respectful in the comments.

<comment><USER4> > My advice : be open, respond to criticism, don't stay silent on touchy > topics, encourage YC staff to share their opinions on controversial topics.

We already tried this in the larger tech community. At best the controversial or contrarian views were silenced, at worst, people's lives were ruined.

<comment><USER3> Can you give me a tl;dr of what you are referring to. Links to articles would be great too!

<comment><USER5> James Damore's Google memo probably qualifies -- [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google%27s_Ideological_Echo_Ch...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google%27s_Ideological_Echo_Chamber)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> Anyone seeking a deeper dive into the legal foundations of startup formation, Clerky's Handbook forms a good companion to this:

[https://handbook.clerky.com/](https://handbook.clerky.com/)

<comment><USER7> I tried to incorporate using clerky, but not sure if I can set the owner of entity a california LLC instead of a person

can you or someone answer this? -Thanks

</comment></comment><comment><USER8> It seems so incredibly generous of this that I caught myself being so cynical as to doubt any ulterior motives at attracting just more companies to YC overall. But it seems to me that these resources and advice are made in earnest, thank you Sam Altman (and Gregory Koberger!) for the contribution of these materials.

<comment><USER9> It pays to be good seems to be one of the core philosophies.

>So I'm not suggesting you be good in the usual sanctimonious way. I'm suggesting it because it works. It will work not just as a statement of "values," but as a guide to strategy, and even a design spec for software. Don't just not be evil. Be good.

[http://www.paulgraham.com/good.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/good.html)

</comment></comment><comment><USER10> While I agree, and I give a lot of this advice to our portfolio companies the biggest problem with do things that don't scale and monopolizing small markets is that other VCs often don't buy into this vision and founders are forced to follow their path: loose focus, chase the biggest market, and do things that scale, just to raise capital. What's great about YC is that it recalibrated the VCs in their orbit which is good for their portfolio companies.

</comment><comment><USER11> This has actually been around for a couple years now. It is so good, in fact, that we actually require new hires at Kodable to read this as part of their onboarding, since it describes how we operate and make decisions as a company so well.

</comment><comment><USER12> Is this available as a podcast? I can't find it, but I'd like to listen to these as I drive to my non-startup job.

<comment><USER13> I'm the co-founder & CTO of VoxSnap. Here's a link to the podcast: [https://data.voxsnap.com/podcast/ycombinator.rss](https://data.voxsnap.com/podcast/ycombinator.rss)

It should be in Google Play & iTunes shortly

<comment><USER14> Thank You!

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER15> If you would like to download the entirety of the audio to listen to later, I've grabbed each mp3 and collated them here:

[https://storytime.voxsnap.com/30/audio/2018/09/14/ycombinato...](https://storytime.voxsnap.com/30/audio/2018/09/14/ycombinator- intro.mp3)

[https://storytime.voxsnap.com/30/audio/2018/09/14/ycombinato...](https://storytime.voxsnap.com/30/audio/2018/09/14/ycombinator- idea.mp3)

[https://storytime.voxsnap.com/30/audio/2018/09/14/ycombinato...](https://storytime.voxsnap.com/30/audio/2018/09/14/ycombinator- team.mp3)

[https://storytime.voxsnap.com/30/audio/2018/09/14/ycombinato...](https://storytime.voxsnap.com/30/audio/2018/09/14/ycombinator- product.mp3)

[https://storytime.voxsnap.com/30/audio/2018/09/14/ycombinato...](https://storytime.voxsnap.com/30/audio/2018/09/14/ycombinator- execution.mp3)

[https://storytime.voxsnap.com/30/audio/2018/09/14/ycombinato...](https://storytime.voxsnap.com/30/audio/2018/09/14/ycombinator- growth.mp3)

[https://storytime.voxsnap.com/30/audio/2018/09/14/ycombinato...](https://storytime.voxsnap.com/30/audio/2018/09/14/ycombinator- focus.mp3)

[https://storytime.voxsnap.com/30/audio/2018/09/14/ycombinato...](https://storytime.voxsnap.com/30/audio/2018/09/14/ycombinator- ceo.mp3)

[https://storytime.voxsnap.com/30/audio/2018/09/14/ycombinato...](https://storytime.voxsnap.com/30/audio/2018/09/14/ycombinator- hiring.mp3)

[https://storytime.voxsnap.com/30/audio/2018/09/14/ycombinato...](https://storytime.voxsnap.com/30/audio/2018/09/14/ycombinator- competition.mp3)

[https://storytime.voxsnap.com/30/audio/2018/09/14/ycombinato...](https://storytime.voxsnap.com/30/audio/2018/09/14/ycombinator- money.mp3)

[https://storytime.voxsnap.com/30/audio/2018/09/14/ycombinato...](https://storytime.voxsnap.com/30/audio/2018/09/14/ycombinator- fundraising.mp3)

[https://storytime.voxsnap.com/30/audio/2018/09/14/ycombinato...](https://storytime.voxsnap.com/30/audio/2018/09/14/ycombinator- closing.mp3)

<comment><USER13> Feel free to use a podcast app. The feed URL is: [https://data.voxsnap.com/podcast/ycombinator.rss](https://data.voxsnap.com/podcast/ycombinator.rss)

</comment></comment><comment><USER16> "You should talk to your users and watch them use your product, figure out what parts are sub-par, and then make your product better. Then do it again. This cycle should be the number one focus of the company, and it should drive everything else."

"Literally watch them use your product. Sit in their office if you can. Value both what they tell you and what they actually do. "

^^ If anyone is having a hard time with any of the above, let me know. Happy to offer a free user video on us. We work on an on-demand/automated remote user testing service to help you learn from your users much more easily and quickly:

[https://www.userlook.co](https://www.userlook.co)

</comment><comment><USER17> I must admit to seeing the headline and thinking, "oh no, another set of advice that only works for some companies and not others" but actually, it is just enough information to be useful to many small companies but not too much detail to get into "this doesn't work for my company" territory.

The bottom line of a CEO is to make the company successful and to make decisions with conflicting advice but this provides the bit that the best CEOs cannot always know and that is only from experience so I love the ballpark numbers, the common mistakes and the counter-intuitive advice.

</comment><comment><USER18> This is awesome! I'm Helena Ronis, co-founder and CEO of VoxSnap, the startup that did the audio & player embedded in the post. Feel free to share your feedback with us about the player or audio.

<comment><USER19> Hi Helana! Really beautiful player, the embedded player looks like it belongs on the page. As a founder, would love to hear your feedback on what you think of Sam Altman's Playbook!

<comment><USER18> Thanks! I appreciate it. Super happy that you like the player.

As a founder I think the Playbook is mostly on point, I'm curious to see what Sam adds or removes in the re-write. Startups are hard and it takes a lot of persistence and hustle to move the needle in a meaningful way. I love the part in the Intro section "A word of warning about choosing to start a startup: It sucks! One of the most consistent pieces of feedback we get from YC founders is it's harder than they could have ever imagined, because they didn't have a framework for the sort of work and intensity a startup entails." Then the follow up line is great "On the other hand, starting a startup is not in fact very risky to your career—if you're really good at technology, there will be job opportunities if you fail. I personally think the riskier option is having an idea or project you're really passionate about and working at a safe, easy, unfulfilling job instead." \- I totally agree with that, if you have an entrepreneurial character you'll forever regret not taking the chance.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> Discussed at the time: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10514729](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10514729)

</comment><comment><USER21> 1\. I've made an outline of this Playbook on paper, works well to review it monthly/quarterly to refresh knowledge.

2\. Many times I shared the Playbook, people failed to consume it.

3\. Based on (1+2) idea: to make a short overview of the Playbook. Like those 3-minute hand-drawing YouTube videos. @sama could narrate one and make it as widespread as "Here's to the crazy ones..." mp3 we all might have, narrated by Steve Jobs.

<comment><USER22> if u reduced it to a nice shareable pdf can u please share a link?

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> And for those of us who are not founders, this is some new material: [https://sarahbrownmarketing.com/power-to-the-startup- people-...](https://sarahbrownmarketing.com/power-to-the-startup-people-book/)

</comment><comment><USER24> It's not just for ideas or those considering startups. Definitely a good reminder of what the "roots" are even for later stage companies. A lot of things hit home for me in terms of CEO roles, growth, hiring, culture and product.

</comment><comment><USER25> I would love to hear the audio version narrated by sama.

</comment><comment><USER26> is the narration downloadable?

<comment><USER13> It's available as a podcast here: [https://data.voxsnap.com/podcast/ycombinator.rss](https://data.voxsnap.com/podcast/ycombinator.rss)

</comment></comment><comment><USER27> Thanks Sam!

</comment><comment><USER28> Is the narrator a machine? He said "eee gee" for eg.

<comment><USER29> Woah wait, do people say "example given" or "egg" instead? I always say eee gee and eye eee.

<comment><USER30> I've always heard "eee gee" for "e.g."

<comment><USER31> I've always said 'for example'</comment></comment></comment></comment>


How to Open a Startup [Infographic] - <AUTHOR> http://fundersandfounders.com/infographics-how-to-open-a-startup/

<comment><USER2> Awesome, we always forgot all those basic things</comment>


First gene-edited babies claimed in China - <AUTHOR> http://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20181126/p2g/00m/0fe/047000c <comment><USER2> The edited gene is for CCR5, which currently doesn't have known function, but is the entry point for HIV. So editing for prophylaxis. This was probably done because if there aren't a ton of loss of function beneficial traits, and probably with the main desire to be first. Except, if the reports are true, this is not just an experiment but a person (or people). I guess the main desire is to normalize editing. Brave new world I guess, whether we like it or not.

<comment><USER3> > "gene is for CCR5, which currently doesn't have known function"

It's in the article:

> "Even if editing worked perfectly, people without normal CCR5 genes face > higher risks of getting certain other viruses, such as West Nile, and of > dying from the flu. Since there are many ways to prevent HIV infection and > it's very treatable if it occurs, those other medical risks are a concern, > Musunuru said."

<comment><USER4> _it 's very treatable if it occurs_

Surely it is a bit of a stretch.

<comment><USER5> People with HIV just have to pop a couple pills a day now to take their viral loads to literally undetectable levels. With treatment, people with HIV can expect to live normal lives, and be healthy and active. It's also almost impossible to transmit HIV with such low viral loads.

<comment><USER6> And how expensive is that treatment?

<comment><USER7> Truvada which is a HIV prevention drug was priced at ~$1500/mo. I mention it because I know the chemicals in Truvada are similar but IDK the price comparison. Most people on HIV meds are probably hitting their Out-of-pocket max pretty early in the year.

I have had two high deductible plans in the last two year (work changed providers) and here were the things I remember:

Old Insurance:

Deductible: $3,000

Tier: 2

Price: 100%/$60

New Insurance:

Deductible: $3,000

Tier: 3 (maybe 4, I can't remember)

Price: 100%/25%

It was effectively free to me on my old insurance with the copay card (covered $3600) because I would hit my deductible and then have enough to cover the co- pays after. On my new insurance it's not feasible for me to pay ~$400/mo until I hit my OOP ($6000). You might be asking why I didn't look at a PPO plan instead of high deductible, because of the drug tier there was no difference in the price.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> There have been a good deal of medical and technological breakthroughs over the last couple decades. Reusable rockets, VR, machine learning, etc. This is the first article I have read that has made me realize that the future is right here, right now and there is a very high probability that things are now going to change rapidly.

One thing to consider is that via crispr and stem cell treatments, genetic changes can be affected in adults as well, you just need to wait for the kinks to be worked out now and apply large sums of money. Our definition of 'haves and have nots' is potentially going to change in ways we have never imagined.

<comment><USER9> As I said in another thread on this article:

On the one hand, hurray for them for trying to eliminate a couple of quite serious diseases.

On the other hand, we have very little clue what the long term effects of not having CCR5 will be for these children. Furthermore, do we really trust China to start messing with people's DNA? I could think up several uses for this that are downright dangerous in the hands of a country like China.

Some of them:

\- Remove a key gene in a metabolic pathway which can be mitigated by dietary supplements, creating a biological dead man's switch in order to make it easier to control the population.

\- Inserting a viral genome into the host genome (preferably also under some deadman's switch), creating in effect a biological weapon

<comment><USER10> This technology might not work at all, or it might be highly effective after refinements.

If it is highly effective moral arguments are moot. Genetic engineering will be like nuclear weapons. A nation that desires to be competitive or have economic dominance won't have any choice, it will be forced to adopt its usage (or be left behind).

Even agreements to control nuclear weapons that could cause human extinction still leave nuclear weapons in the hands of many major nations (and a handful of tiny ones) so international agreements have little chance of curtailing genetic engineering.

<comment><USER9> I'm not saying that we should try to ban genetic engineering. It's here to stay.

I'm just trying to point out that the Gattaca situation people seem to be afraid of is not even in the top 10 of worst scenario's.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER11> > _It 's "unconscionable ... an experiment on human beings that is not morally > or ethically defensible," said Dr. Kiran Musunuru, a University of > Pennsylvania gene editing expert and editor of a genetics journal._

This is 100% correct.

(COI: Kiran was my postdoc while I was a student in the lab a decade ago.)

<comment><USER12> Perhaps this is true. I do not know. But human enhancement through genetic engineering is coming. Changes in traits, such as IQ, by 5+ standard deviations looks possible. We would be fools to outlaw it here, for we would become as children compared to future citizens of nations that do not share our taboos.

<comment><USER13> Genetic engineering might be able to prevent certain inherited diseases, but otherwise major net improvements are unlikely. A boost in one area tends to cause problems in other areas. That's why evolution through natural selection hasn't significantly increased average human intelligence over the past few thousand years. The average human genome appears to be close to a local maximum.

<comment><USER14> Human intelligence has not increased because it has not been strongly selected for. If it was maximized, at the expense of other traits, a lot could definitely happen.

> _The average human genome appears to be close to a local maximum._

Absolutely, but it's maximized for the environment we lived in 10-100 generations ago.

<comment><USER13> "Superior IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders, research suggests"

[https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/bad-news-for- the-...](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/bad-news-for-the-highly- intelligent/)

<comment><USER15> Not saying the conclusion is wrong, but that experimental methodology seems sketchy as hell. Why? Their sample consisted entirely of Mensa members. Mensa != the general population of high-IQ individuals.

You join Mensa if your IQ is a large part of your identity. Individuals who have a high IQ but _also_ have a lot of other things going on in their lives (like career success or fulfilling personal relationships) tend to concentrate on those things rather than join Mensa. Therefore, membership in Mensa tends to overselect for individuals whose self-conception is both narrow and focused on their intelligence. There's a lot of other evidence in psychology that a narrow self-conception correlates highly with mood & anxiety disorders. You can also get correlations with physical ailments like environmental allergies and asthma as well, because someone who _doesn 't_ have these physical ailments is more able to get outside or pick up sports rather than go to meetings of a high-IQ society.

So the way they designed their experiment, they introduced tons of conflating factors that may or may not actually have anything to do with IQ. It's certainly _possible_ that high IQs are associated with mental and physical disorders - but what the experiment shows is that _membership in Mensa_ is associated with mental and physical disorders.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> This sounds super sketchy:

> He said the parents involved declined to be identified or interviewed, and > he would not say where they live or where the work was done.

> There is no independent confirmation of He's claim, and it has not been > published in a journal, where it would be vetted by other experts. He > revealed it Monday in Hong Kong to one of the organizers of an international > conference on gene editing that is set to begin Tuesday, and earlier in > exclusive interviews with The Associated Press.

To be honest, _if this is true_ it sounds like he modified them without the parents knowledge or consent. Usually, I'm super skeptical of any "research" coming out of China. However, I've suspected that China has been doing this for a while anyway (without sharing it). So I'm left with three possibilities in my mind:

1\. Government is releasing this to see how the world will react

2\. The doctor excited to share their work, shared it - but did the work without the parents consent

3\. Parents did this knowingly and in a controlled way

Of those options I'm betting #2 followed by #1. Highly doubt even if the parents consented this was entered into with the knowledge of the risks. Seriously if they are using Cas9 who knows what else could go wrong.

<comment><USER17> Exactly. What happens when these babies become toddlers or young children and they start contracting all sorts of weird cancers.

See article: Potential DNA damage from CRISPR has been 'seriously underestimated,' study finds

[https://www.statnews.com/2018/07/16/crispr-potential-dna- dam...](https://www.statnews.com/2018/07/16/crispr-potential-dna-damage- underestimated/)

The results come hard on the heels of two studies that identified a related issue: Some CRISPR'd cells might be missing a key anti-cancer mechanism and therefore be able to initiate tumors.

<comment><USER18> China will make sure the world doesn't see the failures of their experiments, this is the very scary part of the story

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> And we are here, a brave new world. For years I heard and read that we would never need to worry about scientists editing the DNA of a human embryo that would be brought to term. The argument emphasized the fact that professional ethics would prevent it. Well, ethics change and not all professionals will follow them.

As a programmer, I know how hard it is to modify a ball of code without having unexpected consequences. We barely know how the human genome functions. I hope we don't do too much damage.

<comment><USER20> Nah we are not in brave new world yet. We are in a world where china is willing to brute force its way into it through very risky experiments, while the west is not willing to own up to the reality that our future is no longer natural, and we are not even going to be a single species.

</comment></comment><comment><USER21> This is quite interesting. There is a certain very small percentage of the world's population that is immune to the HIV virus. These people's T-cells have the CD4 receptor, but not the CCR5 receptor. The HIV virus needs both these receptors to successfully affect the host's cells. The absence of the CCR5 receptor still allows the person's T cells to function normally, so if this works, it can pave the way to creating offspring who are immune to HIV

<comment><USER22> Does CCR5 have no other purpose? Hard to believe that it'd exist if it wasn't needed.

<comment><USER23> There are literally millions of healthy people without CCR5 receptors. (Millions is approximately 0.01% of world population and this mutation's frequency is certainly greater than that.)

<comment><USER24> What about possible dependencies which are also missing or required in those healthy people? That is, if you remove CCR5, are there other components which should be removed/replaced/inserted to enable the anti-HIV functionality? I would venture to guess that nobody really knows... yet.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER25> This is how China is going to take the lead. They will start breeding disease- resistant, stronger and smarter humans, and the west will take the moral high ground, tweet about how evil China is on their new phones, and fall behind.

Our ethics will be our downfall.

<comment><USER18> Rather "and do the same" than "fall behind".

We are taking the Chinese route for surveillance, data, AI. It's going to be the same for genetics. Maybe even faster because people don't want to be spied on but want to have stronger/resistant/smarter children, especially when they'll see other people getting those advantages.

</comment></comment><comment><USER23> Hear it from He Jiankui himself: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th0vnOmFltc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th0vnOmFltc)

<comment><USER26> Oooh, so it is _that He_ , the man used to have a very peculiar reputation on Chinese university BBSes back when China just got internet connectivity. That was what possibly lead to him being ousted from Chinese academia a decade ago.

I myself think it was certainly no coincidence that Stanford picked him up.

I'm afraid calling up some of his opinions, and in particularly on the topic of race, as they will be a ten megaton flamewar bomb. Google him yourself if you know Chinese.

<comment><USER27> C'mon man, you can't leave those of us that don't speak Chinese hanging like that.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER28> a giant leap

i had thought this wouldnt happen for another few decades

this is bad news for tibetans since their high altitude gene is known even the andes high alt adaptations are being discovered which is really one of the closest things to a genetic super ability you can get

so it will only be a few decades more until this last barrier to han colonization of tibet falls

deep sea diving is another such genetic ability recently investigated

</comment><comment> oh-kumudo It already causes quite a debate on Chinese internet as well.

People are genuinely concerned about the unknown effects on the babies, and questioning the authors and the hospital's motivation of applying such techniques to human this early without fully understanding its consequences.

<comment><USER29> IVF was also very controversial and "unnatural" at the time. I hope the kid is fine.

</comment></comment><comment><USER30> the first edit is HIV resistance, not a bad way to start the black mirror episode that is the rest of our lives from now on.

<comment><USER31> If it works and HIV resistance installed in a population, then it opens the possibility HIV could be then could become an effective bioweapon for that population.

<comment><USER32> 1\. If it works, you'd need to wait 50+ years until most of your population was immune. You'd have to hope that in that time HIV vaccines/cures aren't developed.

2\. HIV would make a terrible bioweapon. It's difficult to spread, takes a very long time to incapacitate people, and there are generally effective treatments.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> Here is a controversial article published in 2013 by an evolutionary psychologist that everyone should give some thoughts on:

Disclaimers: I do not have the expertise to evaluate its veracity but if true it will affect everyone in the world in some important ways within a few decades (the effects might already start to appear as we see how fast China has developed technologically. Yes, technology transfer is clearly a factor but few developing nations can absorb and adopt advanced technologies so rapidly). I also have not pondered deeply enough to have a strong position on the complicated ethical implications alluded to in the article and expressed with concerns elsewhere.

[https://www.edge.org/response-detail/23838](https://www.edge.org/response- detail/23838)

> ...

> Deng also encouraged assortative mating through promoting urbanization and > higher education, so bright, hard-working young people could meet each other > more easily, increasing the proportion of children who would be at the upper > extremes of intelligence and conscientiousness. ...

> But crucially, Comprehensive National Power also includes "biopower": > creating the world's highest-quality human capital in terms of the Chinese > population's genes, health, and education ...

> The BGI Cognitive Genomics Project is currently doing whole-genome > sequencing of 1,000 very-high-IQ people around the world, hunting for sets > of sets of IQ-predicting alleles. I know because I recently contributed my > DNA to the project, not fully understanding the implications. These IQ gene- > sets will be found eventually—but will probably be used mostly in China, for > China. Potentially, the results would allow all Chinese couples to maximize > the intelligence of their offspring by selecting among their own fertilized > eggs for the one or two that include the highest likelihood of the highest > intelligence. Given the Mendelian genetic lottery, the kids produced by any > one couple typically differ by 5 to 15 IQ points. So this method of > "preimplantation embryo selection" might allow IQ within every Chinese > family to increase by 5 to 15 IQ points per generation. After a couple of > generations, it would be game over for Western global competitiveness. ...

> My real worry is the Western response. The most likely response, given Euro- > American ideological biases, would be a bioethical panic that leads to > criticism of Chinese population policy with the same self-righteous > hypocrisy that we have shown in criticizing various Chinese socio-cultural > policies. But the global stakes are too high for us to act that stupidly and > short-sightedly. A more mature response would be based on mutual > civilizational respect, asking—what can we learn from what the Chinese are > doing, how can we help them, and how can they help us to keep up as they > create their brave new world?

<comment><USER34> Thanks for that super weird article. The author's motivations for supporting China's eugenics efforts are puzzling for sure.

Thankfully we might be safe for the time being. IIRC the BGI IQ sequencing initiative did not lead to any meaningful discoveries since it's not yet obvious or fully proven yet that IQ is that heritable.

My 50c is that we as a population have currently stopped evolving regions of our genome that can keep resulting in progressively higher intelligence, for two possible reasons: 1. there's some evidence at least from my view that any further increase in intelligence will cause other side effects like depression and autism (or perhaps a more intelligent version of us cannot unsee the futility of our lives?); 2. It's not in the interests of the population as a whole to continue having a fight between individuals having heritably different IQs, i.e. we have evolved into a local minima so that all IQ differences are stochastic and it's _really_ hard to leave this minima through mutations.

I think the second possibility makes sense because intelligence is such a huge evolutionary advantage that a population with high instability in this trait might be doomed (more intelligent people can cheat more easily for short term personal benefit at the expense of long term population benefit). I really think that one of the first things modern humans evolved was the genetic ability to make sure that intelligence was completely randomized among the population, and I now hope that's true also because of all these efforts because if it's true none of these efforts would succeed for a long time.

<comment><USER33> Thank you for the interesting hypotheses regarding the evolution of intelligence. I have a somewhat different take and would like to share:

Some of the most intelligent people in history including renowned philosophers, scientists, and mathematicians did not seem to focus on using their intelligence to acquire as much power or wealth as possible. They seemed to enjoy contemplating more universal and deeper questions than immersing themselves too much on worldly matters. A majority of powerful people did seem to have above or well-above average intelligence but they were probably not in the same league, intelligence-wise, as those famous thinkers. Their other traits were also important to their rise to power.

Environment and population intelligence likely have co-evolved and very high intelligence did not confer much advantage over an above average one for most common professions before the 21st century. The technology and level of economy-of-scale available in the past meant that social graciousness and other personality traits could have been better predictors of career and economic success than intelligence above a certain point.

To have a great engineering or scientific career developing some of our increasingly advanced technologies, very high intelligence seems to present certain advantages over a more balanced group of traits. So a shift in global technological landscape could also mean that the optimal collection of population intelligence and other traits change as well.

As concrete examples, the founders of the largest American tech empires all seem to have/had an IQ at least 3-4 SD above mean based on their academic records.

PS. Your 1) seems possible in some cases and I would add that traits like non- extreme autism-spectrum condition may not be a handicap, but rather an advantage, in a certain environment and career path.

<comment><USER35> _Some of the most intelligent people in history including renowned philosophers, scientists, and mathematicians did not seem to focus on using their intelligence to acquire as much power or wealth as possible._

More significantly, they tend to not have children.

"Men of the highest genius who were childless include Newton, Faraday, and Mendel; Vivaldi, Handel, and Beethoven; Gibbon, Macaulay, and Carlyle; Plato, Aquinas, Bacon, Locke, Leibniz, Hume, Kant and Mill. Anyone who thinks he can frame a list of comparable individuals who had on the average enough children to counter-balance the childlessness of these, is welcome to try; but he will not succeed. ...Just below the very highest level, and average number of children is again far below the average for people of no intellectual or artistic distinction. And it is, again, spectacularly depressed by the huge contribution of the childless: Copernicus, Swift, Adam Smith, Samuel Johnson, Haydn, Dalton, Francis Galton himself - to mention a few examples at random." (David Stove, _Darwinian Fairytales_ )

<comment><USER13> One wonders whether those geniuses were actually childless, or if they perhaps sired some unacknowledged children?

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER36> [https://apnews.com/4997bb7aa36c45449b488e19ac83e86d](https://apnews.com/4997bb7aa36c45449b488e19ac83e86d)

Has more info

</comment><comment><USER37> The Shenzhen HarMoniCare Women & Children's Hospital, the medical ethics committee of which gave a permit to this, was one of the so-called Putian- systems, a medical network established by hundreds of people from Putian, Fujian who earned their first bucket of gold by selling "home made remedies and fake medicine at high prices".

[https://m.scmp.com/news/china/policies- politics/article/1940...](https://m.scmp.com/news/china/policies- politics/article/1940668/baidu-scandal-spotlight-china-military-hospitals)

EDIT:

Shenzhen Medical Ethics Expert Committee said that the trial was not reported to before the trial.

[https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&...](https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=http://www.bjnews.com.cn/news/2018/11/26/524939.html&xid=17259,15700022,15700124,15700126,15700149,15700186,15700191,15700201&usg=ALkJrhiDehC95dc3xPQZBlTpe4sNP3u-Bg)

</comment><comment><USER38> in vitro sex selection (mostly for male children) has been going on for a long time, seems the next logical step:

[https://www.google.com/search?&q=in+vitro+sex+selection+chin...](https://www.google.com/search?&q=in+vitro+sex+selection+china&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8)

<comment><USER39> Gender selection, will have adverse effect without a doubt, nature has a healthy balance between the number of men and women in the world, and certain culture preferring boys / girls will lead to us having too much of one and not enough of the other. There is already evidence of this in China and India.

</comment></comment><comment><USER40> This will be a great tool to help game the social score.

More intelligence + less risk-taking + more respect for authority = a high- score child sure to get into the top University and have the freedom to travel there.

/s

</comment><comment><USER41> Looking at how addictive our interactions with technology have become this seems concerning. A future where we can all exist and never look up or leave our thought bubbles could have a dramatic impact on humanity and motivations.

</comment><comment><USER42> Moral frontiers aside, current gene tech is still not where we'd like it to be in order to pull of these sorts of things and know we haven't done harm. Side edits are a big problem with CRISPR-Cas9.

<comment><USER11> To be fair, that's part of the moral argument.

<comment><USER42> It's a technical problem in it's own right, it also has significant in the moral argument.

<comment><USER11> I agree.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER43> I wonder how many of us are totally fine with gene-edited babies but find Facebook morally reprehensible?

</comment><comment><USER44> 1\. Do they grow HIV-resistant people for sex-work industry?

2\. Why does China outlaw cloning if it has the same risks?

</comment><comment><USER45> For the surely upcoming discussion about pros and cons of genetic editing in humans, Kurzgesagt has a basic overview of the space, if you can spare some 15 minutes with your morning coffee.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAhjPd4uNFY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAhjPd4uNFY)

(not affiliated, just love their videos)

</comment><comment><USER46> We finally reached Gattaca

<comment><USER47> Gattaca was actually embryo selection, not editing.

<comment><USER46> Oh, was it? A good reason for me to watch it again, I haven't watched that one in ages.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER48> How will we know if it "worked" ?

</comment><comment><USER49> While the western world is whining about irrelevant ethics the Chinese will eventually eradicate countless diseases, engineer the perfect superhuman and take control of their evolution. Transhumanism is here and happening right now. We are committing a crime against our future generations if we decide not to participate in it. We actively decide against prosperity and advancement. We are luddites.

Complacent western weakness at its best.

</comment><comment><USER50> It's no surprise this comes from China, the same country that grinds dead babies into pills.

<comment><USER51> When I first read this comment I thought it was hyperbole (I've heard about the vaccine and melamine scares -- which harmed and killed many thousands of children -- but not about dead babies being put into pills). But no, it's real fucking thing[1,2,3,4]. What the actual fuck. How is a Hacker News comment the first time I've heard of this?

[1]: [https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/05/ho...](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/05/horrifyingly- ground-baby-pills-are-real-thing/328490/) [2]: [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-17980177](https://www.bbc.com/news/world- asia-17980177) [3]: [https://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-08/south-korea- cracks-do...](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-08/south-korea-cracks-down- on-baby-flesh-pills/3999028) [4]: [https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/southkorea/9...](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/southkorea/9250438/Pills- filled-with-powdered-human-baby-flesh-found-by-customs-officials.html)

<comment><USER40> I don't understand this. They don't advertise the pills as human flesh pills, so why use that material in the first place? Why not dead chickens, or runoff from an abattoir?</comment></comment></comment>