"Sonic attack" may have been two ultrasonic signals accidentally interfering - <AUTHOR> https://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/devices/finally-a-likely-explanation-for-the-sonic-weapon-used-at-the-us-embassy-in-cuba <comment><USER2> > Yan was even able to embed an ultrasonic version of the Rick Astley song > "Never Gonna Give You Up," which became audible at the point where the two > signals crossed.

At 33C3 I rode an escalator when I suddenly heard "Never Gonna Give You Up" but apparently no one else did. It was over after a few seconds. At the top of escalator there was a guy pointing a directional speaker at random people.

Only reference I could find is in German, but it has a picture [1]. The story says the guy on the picture is not the inventor of the device.

EDIT: The thing is a parametric ultrasonic speaker and the design files and software are on GitHub [2].

[1] [https://motherboard.vice.com/de/article/784z74/33c3-- hacker-...](https://motherboard.vice.com/de/article/784z74/33c3--hacker- zeigen-ihre-gadgets)

[2] [https://github.com/niklasfauth/parametricspeaker](https://github.com/niklasfauth/parametricspeaker)

<comment><USER3> It's actually off-the-shelf tech now. I've been in a number of supermarkets where they use this to beam ads at you while standing in line for the checkout. (All of which have since stopped doing it, for what it's worth. YMMV.)

There was some hope for a while that this might turn out to be a way to hack sound so that you could produce a flat speaker full of those tiny ultrasonic speakers, and then use non-linear interference to produce deep, booming bass sounds, without having to have the much-larger speakers you need today for that to work correctly. Unfortunately, either nobody could crack the technique, or it's simply impossible, because the real speakers that emerged are quite tinny. Here's a commercial offering, where they're only willing to promise down to 150Hz in the text: [http://ultrasonic-audio.com/acouspade- technical-specificatio...](http://ultrasonic-audio.com/acouspade-technical- specification/) "The sound is of high-quality, with low noise and great frequency response, which includes authentic reproduction of bass notes and frequencies as low as 150 Hz." Which, if accurate, is better than the speakers I've heard, but still a long ways from "thumping bass" coming out of a square that could be hung on the wall as casually as a picture frame.

<comment><USER4> > _I 've been in a number of supermarkets where they use this to beam ads at > you while standing in line for the checkout._

This is more than creepy. It should be made illegal along with using cameras for anything else than security.

<comment><USER3> I would have thrown a bigger fuss if they didn't disappear as quickly as they did. I assume other people threw a fuss for me, for which I thank them, whoever they are.

The f'ing stupid thing is that _the checkout line is already one big ad_. It advertises all the things that the stores have already figured out you're likely to buy at the end of a shopping trip; candy, drinks, SD cards (dunno why but it's pretty consistent), etc. It is the most effective possible ad, since everything it is advertising is literally within arm's reach for immediate purchase. You'd think that would be enough!

<comment><USER5> I think the SD cards might be more about discouraging shoplifting of a small easily liquidable good.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> There are two key phrases in this article "intermodulation distortion" and "when signal processing equipment behaves in a nonlinear way". While there is not a concrete description of the signals that might have been present in the building, I completely understand how these non-linearities can cause havoc.

I previously spent almost 30 years in the cable television industry and the transmission of broadband signals requires linear amplification over almost three magnitudes. The two main distortions we worry about are Composite Second Order and Composite Triple Beat. This distortion represents all the permutations of sums and differences of two and three signals respectively.

In narrow band communications, we amplify the signal and then filter out everything except the desired signal. In wide-band electronics, these products of distortion will often fall on top of other signals you're sending. The only way to succeed is to create very, very linear amplifiers (usually by burning a huge amount of bias current relative to the signal power).

</comment><comment><USER7> Errant high-power microwave signals still seem to be the #1 likely scenario in my book. It was covered here previously:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15332122](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15332122)

While I tossed out the idea in that thread that it could be related to pest control, I think the most likely explanation would be an improperly aimed high-powered microwave antenna. I can't imagine any ultrasonic signal being at such a power level as to cause physical damage at a distance, let alone through walls. In fact, I'm not sure that's ever been shown to be possible. We know for a fact; however, that high powered microwaves can be highly damaging and in combination with the microwave auditory effect, would explain it quite well.

<comment><USER8> high power microwave/millimeter wave can also be focused pretty tightly, down to 1.5 degrees central beam width... Telecom grade point to point millimeter wave stuff (71-86 GHz) can be +19 dBm into a 52dBi gain 60cm antenna. But if you're not actually trying to communicate and just want to flood the spectrum with shit at high powers, it's totally feasible to build something that has a power of like +30 fed into a 56dBi gain directional parabolic antenna.

one possible explanation is that they were trying to do a more "modern" version of the famous battery-free bug that was found in the US moscow embassy, where the listening apparatus and its transmitter were powered passively by receiving RF:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_(listening_device)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_\(listening_device\))

<comment><USER9> Who's they? Absent other evidence, it seems to me the most likely people to be emitting microwaves at an American embassy would be... Americans.

<comment><USER10> That's certainly possible, and in fact it could have been part of a routine sweep for unpowered bugs that went wrong. It would also help to explain the impressive range of bullshit "explanations" that keep getting printed. Mass hysteria? Really?!

[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/12/cuba-mass- hyst...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/12/cuba-mass-hysteria- sonic-attacks-neurologists)

Give me a break.

<comment><USER11> Did someone debunk the STD hypothesis? That sounded the most plausible to me when first reported (didn't involve any conspiracy, just humans being humans - plus was shameful enough to justify spinning stories about sonic attacks).

<comment><USER10> Well the info from the doctors who examined them debunks it, but that assumes that as you say, it isn't being spun. I think the truth is that we just don't know, and may never be in a position to know.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> microwave/RF engineer here: I have seen speculation from people with 25+ years experience in my field that what was being experienced was not acoustic at all, but was some sort of SIGINT apparatus gone wrong, or millimeter wave at very high power and focused. Very curious what the results would have been if the US had carried a 4 to 120 GHz capable portable spectrum analyzer and set of horn antennas in a diplomatic bag to the locations where this was experienced, and done thorough scans of various power levels/frequencies in the millimeter wave frequencies.

quick edit: the weird part here is that DoS (department of state) has an entire division of people who specialize in TSCM (technical surveillance countermeasures). I would be surprised if most embassies did not have RF detection apparatus capable of up to the high millimeter wave frequencies on hand. These things are pretty pricey, $20,000 or so for a full setup, but compared to the anti-bugging budget of the DoS as a whole it's a tiny drop in the bucket.

<comment><USER12> Not an expert at all, just curious; could this kind of radiation have caused the high-pitched sounds, or perception of sounds, as purely a side effect?

<comment><USER8> not the RF itself, no, but the effect of high powered millimeter-waves focused at a person's head could very possible have that effect on a neurological basis. It's not the sort of thing that has ever been voluntarily tested on humans (for obvious reasons), and if tested on animals, animals can't tell you if they're observing auditory hallucinations...

Though the science behind avoiding high RF exposure is known and observed (ex: tower climbers don't want to hang around on the front side of a large sector antenna with high EIRP in the 2.5 GHz band).

Would have to ask a MD that specializes in the brain.

<comment><USER13> Might have better luck with a PhD neuroscientist, but my guess (as a lowly MS) would be that it's something we can't really experiment with because of ethical issues, as you mentioned. While I studied the auditory system in grad school, I wasn't until today aware of effects of RF on hearing, but there does seem to be an effect at fairly high exposures: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_auditory_effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_auditory_effect)

<comment><USER8> probably the closest we could get to studying it would be to emplace a lot of instrumentation inside of a cadaver brain and focus the same power/frequency of microwave at it. kind of a messy process since to duplicate real world conditions you'd need to have the brain inside a skull...

<comment><USER13> Another issue is that you wouldn't have any sort of active responses that may induce or attenuate any effects of the radiation. An example from the auditory world is that for much of the history of auditory system research, it was thought that the cochlea was a passive system (with a little more nuance, the idea of an active cochlear mechanism was theorized but not confirmed). But that was because the technological limitations of the time only allowed experiments on dead cochleas (primarily by von Bekesy) - once otoacoustic emissions were first recorded (70s or early 80s) we finally had verification of the cochlear amplifier.

More, if interested: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochlear_amplifier](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochlear_amplifier)

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> The two "accidental" intermodulating devices still have to emit the levels of energy sufficient to damage brain tissue. We're not talking room occupancy sensor levels, more like industrial ultrasonic washer levels.

</comment><comment><USER15> Is it not equally likely that the source of high intensity, high frequency RF modulation lies inside the US communications infrastructure associated with an Embassy inside a declared enemy state? I.E. the reason there is no external source, is that it was a product of faulty US SIGINT in the first place.

Is Guantanamo Bay reachable by microwave link from Havana? Day traders prefer RF to complex internet routes, if they can show speed advantages. Direct RF might have some SIGINT advantage over other choices here, to talk between US assets in the economy.

I'm not a cuban or a russian, and nobody pays me for my opinions btw. I just find it strange everyone externalises the source, when we probably all believe the investment the US makes inside its own communications is actually sufficiently at scale to be the source of the problem.

<comment><USER8> the people who experienced this, many of them lived outside of the embassy compound.

and no, havana and guantanamo are way too far apart for line of sight microwave. really doubt that the US and Canadians accidentally did this to themselves.

i am actually somewhat familiar with the technology the US uses for two way satellite earth stations on the roof of latin american embassies (for a telecom link that can't be easily cut off by the host nation-state). the other end of some of those links is on the roof of a major internet IX point in miami. the people at the DoS who are responsible for two way satellite and microwave stuff would have no cause to aim a roof mounted antenna anywhere other than at the sky, at a geostationary satellite.

the weird thing about this is that microwave and millimeter wave really does not go through matter (walls, windows, wood, brick, concrete, etc) very well at all above 5 GHz. At very high frequencies you need an extremely focused antenna and very high transmit power to possibly affect peoples' heads while they are asleep in their bedroom.

<comment><USER15> The people who experienced this, may have _lived_ outside the embassy compound, but they presumably _worked_ inside the embassy compound.

Why do you really doubt they did this to themselves? On what basis do we automatically assume an external agency did this to them? Thats the underpinning argument I'm running.

Since you are familiar with the technology, you have a basis to believe, but the rest of us, have none. You just said the comms are sat based, homed in Miami. So, unless there is a LEO component, this means secure channel dialogue incurs a minimum Geo orbit RTT. Well, maybe thats the price you pay.

<comment><USER8> sorry to dispel your theory: but the communications technology used by the DoS to talk to LEO satellite is so low power that it's safe enough to use next to your head. pretty much every embassy has a few Iridium phones on hand. An external antenna (attached to a 50 ohm coaxial cable) on a roof, connected to a docked iridium base station, has the same EIRP and rf parameters as the built in antenna in an iridium handset. which are completely safe to use for multi-hour periods in an active call held next to your head. an iridium antenna is about half the size of a hockey puck and operates in a range from 1400-1600 MHz (you can use the same antenna for GPS Rx-only if you want).

The DoS puts a lot of effort into knowing what RF emissions are going on in and around an embassy. For instance they're quite cautious with where and how wifi access points can be deployed.

The DoS rarely if ever uses point to point microwave, and even if they did, ptp microwave is completely safe to shoot from building to building. If you live in a medium to large sized city the big-4 cellular carriers in the US probably have at least several hundred PTP links in 6, 11, 18, 23 GHz and other bands operating between rooftop sites right now.

<comment><USER15> If the DoS is so RF aware, why aren't they citing the RF meter evidence of what was externally pointed at the site? I think the state department has _guidelines_ , for sure. I also think their analysis of the specifics here are either shrouded in secrecy, or absent. I tend to incompetence over malice. Hence, absent, and probably internally sourced, or if externally sourced, less an attack than an unexpected side effect of something else. (and, I did not intend to imply LEO was a source of RF poison. More, that high RTT was a consequence of GEO sat comms)

I actually subscribe to the _mass hysteria_ theory in this case. Again, with no role to play and purely on what I read, I feel it is as plausible, and equally simple as a cause. Nobody much likes it because hysteria is such a loaded word, but I believe it because I frequently find myself falling into placebo effect. Those aches and pains go away with paracetemol, when its ability to heal those aches and pains is at best moot. The mind is strange. The lesions, certainly are odd. Maybe there is a sub-culture of motley crue headbanging inside state, and they share signs of too much metal?

<comment><USER8> If there is any pervasive health problem going on inside the DoS, I would have to guess alcohol abuse.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER16> So the researchers are proposing the U.S. Embassy in Cuba has brain-altering levels of noise in the ultrasonic region somehow caused by two or more simple,low level and possibly common ultrasonic emitters without malicious intent...

Xu's other recent works has been lacking meat and are better at fear-mongering (Tesla ultrasonic 'hack', Smart grid 'hack').

<comment><USER17> The researchers describe a mode of malfunction where the interference patterns of two separate audio sources can create the same audible effects recorded in Cuba.

The course of reasoning I see proposed is:

-> Personnel in Cuba received an odd class of injury

-> High frequency sound can cause this class of injury and seems the most likely candidate

-> HF sound doesn't propagate well in air and has many other properties that make it a poor tool for espionage/malicious actions

-> Xu's work demonstrates that sound interference from two HF sources can create unexpected effects due to non-linearities in the physics behind sound/air

Xu's work is the last piece in the puzzle IMO. It offers a plausible scenario: the building had Cuban tech and when we moved in we installed non-Cuban tech that, due to some benign like motor speeds, creates sonic problems for building occupants. The reason this doesn't really happen anywhere else is because of the unique situation surrounding the building.

The next steps I'd take were I investigating this is to look at what equipment was installed at the facilities and then determine what frequencies the equipment operates to try to find a likely candidate.

Edit: I realized you may not be familiar with equipment noise problems, these two articles described problems in the infrasound range.

[0] [https://gizmodo.com/some-ghosts-may-be-sound-waves-just- belo...](https://gizmodo.com/some-ghosts-may-be-sound-waves-just-below-human- heari-1737065693)

[1] [https://www.theguardian.com/science/2003/oct/16/science.faro...](https://www.theguardian.com/science/2003/oct/16/science.farout)

</comment></comment><comment><USER18> There was an article published awhile back that seemed to indicate the noises people heard (and still here) are due to tinatus and speculated they were poisoned with one of the many prescription medications that can cause tinatus. I can't remember if they had any clinical testing but it seems a lot more plausible than some kind of sonic attack.

As someone who recently started suffering from mild tinatus I can assure you it's a very bizarre sensation. If I didn't know better I'd assume I was the victim of some kind of attack on my hearing as well.

</comment><comment><USER19> This doesn't explain anything about what happened there.

<comment><USER20> Subharmonics? Additive waves? What was the source and why?

<comment><USER21> Instead of the ieee summary, check the original paper: [https://spqr.eecs.umich.edu/papers/YanFuXu-Cuba-CSE- TR-001-1...](https://spqr.eecs.umich.edu/papers/YanFuXu-Cuba-CSE- TR-001-18.pdf)

It's better and more careful not to over claim.

<comment><USER16> Just reading through that, the unanswered questions are literally the same questions asked before the research began.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER22> Is a theoretical sonic weapon more likely than poisoning though?

<comment><USER23> I think NPR had someone saying the symptoms all pointed towards people being poisoned by chemotherapy drugs.

</comment></comment><comment><USER24> I'm not sure I'd call it "likely", since the researchers disclaim any physiological effects.

</comment><comment><USER25> I think depending on the size and shape of the region of constructive interference it's possible to apply force selectively to somebody's head. In my old apartment, one of the cabinet doors in the kitchen would rattle when the music in the living room played a certain note. Putting my hand in that area I could feel the force of it and it had fairly discreet boundaries in all 3 dimensions. I can imagine it would cause quite a headache if that were suddenly applied directly to my brain. And that's just from my stereo. Work a moving source with broader range, it's theoretically possible to"sweep" an area for susceptible targets. When the source is outside the audible range it would could be largely unnoticeable. Selectively applying pressure to certain parts of the brain can cause a range of symptoms. Like if all of a sudden somebody squeezed your pituitary gland how would you feel?

</comment><comment><USER26> But... _brain_ damage?

The level of energy at work, required to cause harm like that would have to operate on the level of two sonar pings from hell, fortunitously converging to form a node with appropriate geometry to harm a watermelon-sized organ.

We know that blasts from high explosives can transmit brain damaging pressure waves through durable vehicular armor, and there aren't many other sources of energy known to send opportunistic signals through mediums, quite like that.

If I needed to surreptitiously send an accoustic message to an audience positioned at a distance, I might need to use a very powerful source, with a locally inaudible signal that only incidentally becomes audible when crossing other signals, but...

Such a transmission would probably only be effective up to the horizon, and require line-of-sight reception. Provided that the distance for line-of-sight access up to the horizon is about 25-ish miles, depending on topography, and the loudness required for that kind of reach, generating two beams (as powerful as noises produced by attenuated explosive blast waves) seems like it would require some pretty heavy equipment. Like room-sized equipment.

Think about what it takes to push a sound wave several miles, like a ripple across a pond, and what that sounds like up close. Race tracks, rock concerts, passenger jets. These things all readily occupy a three meter cube, at least. Not to mention that the fidelity of such loud noised is very low, and blurred by the intervening air, the further away you get, meaning any digital packet- based transmission would require really coarse, slow bandwidth.

That rules out a lot of sneaky carry-on luggage sized equipment, for generating such signals. Which points, _maybe_ , to no less than two off-site phased-array tone generators forming crossed noise beams for receipt by _someone_.

Still a lot of mystery to suss out, and a lot of gray areas to speculate upon. And I'm tossing a lot of assumptions into the mix, like whether there was deliberate intent at all, and whether side effects were emergent or not. _And_ while there'd be limits and ceilings based on line of sight, that doesn't rule out scale of equipment or range of activity.

The only takeaway is that brain damage at a distance requires a lot of intense energy, usually explosive, although deleterious explosive energy and associated noise can scale from sizes relative to something as small as fire crackers and .22L rounds on up.

</comment><comment><USER27> "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

</comment><comment><USER28> Has the supposed sonic weapon, and its effect been confirmed? Link to best unbiased news story?

</comment><comment><USER29> Unless I'm missing something this is a possible explanation for the sound heard during the alleged attacks, but not for the symptoms experienced.

</comment><comment><USER30> Wow that's actually really quite relieving news. I heard a recording of the clip and afterward read that people experienced some brain damage (!) luckily the ultrasonic waves aren't replicable through my headphones. I don't recommend listening anyway, it's not pleasant and does sound like interference.

</comment><comment><USER31> I read another article describing what doctors concluded after examining the symptoms, which was it was likely poison, as no acoustic effect could have produced those symptoms. They believed the noise complaints were actually a resulting effect of the poison. My guess is a heavy-handed pest control technician.

<comment><USER32> How do you make an audio recording of a hallucination?

<comment><USER31> You're assuming the audio recording is causing the symptoms, which the authors disclaim. The noise could be real, but the symptoms caused by another vector.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER33> They just explained what anyone who has played with 2 sine waves already knows, and drew no conclusions.

<comment><USER34> And even beyond that, ultrasound interference to produce restricted audio volumes has been commercialized and used in places like museums for decades.</comment></comment>


Go Crowdfund - Using crowdfunding to educate the masses about crowdfunding - <AUTHOR> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1520369280/go-crowdfund-a-poster-and-digital-booklet We're researchers from the Creative Action Lab at Northwestern University, and we need your help. We've created some great materials that we're hoping to send to groups that might need help getting into the world of crowdfunding. <comment><USER2> We need more tools like this! It's really hard to run a crowdfunding campaign for the first time without this kind of help...

</comment><comment><USER3> It'd be awesome to get tips from people who have done it before...hindsight is 20 20!

</comment><comment><USER4> AWESOME. Crowdfunding sure is hard to do alone...</comment>


Jury convicts brothers in H-1B fraud case, jail possible - <AUTHOR> http://www.computerworld.com/article/3005272/it-careers/jury-convicts-brothers-in-h-1b-fraud-case-jail-possible.html <comment><USER2> This is not something new, It has been happening from a very long time, I am a Indian myself I know many people have formed such Consultancies in US and hire people from India filing for a position in their office, But eventually making you find job with whomever you choose and taking a part of your pay until you get Green card or some so called good ones just take your full net pay for 3 months in installments. And these type of firms also now create fake projects have desktops setup fake clients setup, hire so called "IT Professionals" from India stating he is a "Java |Ruby Specialist" creating fake documentation for the project, Fooling the immigration panel and eventually bypassing a system with wrong intentions.

On the flip side they also have gotten smarter now by hiring new grads from India who come to US to pursue "MS in tech" add some fake experience to them, train them for a month or two and leave them in the market for potential suitors, only the people who have passion to learn and thrive get to the top and are in the top currently in US markets.

Indian IT service provider companies are a different animal all together, they abuse the system by putting up multiple applications (Here you get some descent resources with no fake qualifications) but still it doesn't do justice to a startup that wants to hire one good resource from abroad because these sharks have already filled up the quota.

Ref: [http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/11/us/large-companies- game-h-...](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/11/us/large-companies- game-h-1b-visa-program-leaving-smaller-ones-in-the-cold.html)

</comment><comment><USER3> The H-1B program is a joke. I've witnessed hundreds of people at a single firm who wholesale replaced the existing workforce.

Some were qualified but most weren't. Most had no experience and required training.

The management of that firm told people point blank that there was no future for developers, and to consider other careers. So when I hear that it's difficult to find qualified resources I consider how many have moved on or ruled out technology altogether because of experiences like that.

We've created our own problem by looking the other way when firms abused the program.

</comment><comment><USER4> Most Indian "IT Recruitment / Consulting" firms in the U.S. are exactly this.

There's a company in Houston TX that tried to snare me into a scheme like this a decade ago. I'd love to name the company and the owner but this is not the forum to do so.

</comment><comment><USER5> Why is it about the Indian culture that breeds these sorts of businesses? This isn't the first time I've heard of this. Why do fellow Indians take advantage of their own people for profit, instead of helping each other out?

This isn't the first time I've seen this scheme, and in the times I have it has been all Indian people taking advantage of other native Indians.

<comment><USER6> Let me ask a few follow up questions:

1\. What do you think it is?

2\. Do you think this is unique to the Indian culture, or do you do you think it's shared by other cultures, including your own?

3\. What do you think about cultures that breed the type of businesses that take advantage of other groups of people for profit?

4\. Compared to Indian wages, could an Indian business owner could easily see themselves doing his fellow Indians a favor while making a profit?

Here's my point. Look before you leap before you turn this into a cultural or racist conversation, because it's a much bigger issue than that and it deserves to be looked at from a larger perspective.

My personal opinion is we need to overhaul to H1-B system to eliminate any leverage an H1-B employer has over their employee. If we want to eliminate the exploitation of immigrants, it's critical they share our freedoms to switch jobs. If we don't grant immigrants that freedom, we're just inviting an immigrant culture where immigrants will consistently earn less which will have the effect of suppressing wages overall.

UPDATED: Formatting and grammar.

<comment><USER5> I have no idea what the answers to your questions are. I'm simply stating what I have observed in my own experiences. I've never seen anyone exploit the H1B system for such personal gain except Indian people, and more often than not they are looking to their own people for their sources of exploitation. I'm just wondering why it isn't more common. Why don't we have Chinese or other asian cultures doing this? What is the source?

<comment><USER6> You might actually be right that specifically exploiting the H1B system is statistically an Indian phenomenon, but the way you ask it makes it a huge distraction when talking about the larger issue.

However, the way you asked it made it sound like you were suggesting Indians are the only ones exploiting their own people. I'd argue most cultures exploit their own in different ways.

Personally, I don't think that's an important question. I think the bigger question is: How can we fix the laws and regulations so our government doesn't inadvertently create an incentive for employers to set up IT shops consisting of cheap immigrant labor tied to sponsoring employers? Can we solve that problem while encouraging the best and the brightest people to work here, earn good salaries, pay taxes and start businesses?

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> Looks like the Nanda brothers had a fall out in 2012[1] and this might have come out as part of that spat.

[1]: [http://600commerce.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Dibon- Solu...](http://600commerce.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Dibon- Solutions-v.-Nanda.pdf)

</comment><comment><USER8> This seems to be the same scheme that the other big consultancy firms you see pop up on the H1B list (Infosys, Tata, Deloitte) use, why are they not being charged?

<comment><USER7> From the linked article:

> The government said that H-1B workers were only "paid for time spent working > at a third-party company and only if the third-party company actually first > paid Dibon for the workers' services.

> "The conspirators falsely represented that the workers had full-time > positions and were paid an annual salary, as required by regulation to > secure the visas," said the government, in a statement announcing the > conviction.

Do you know if Infosys, Tata or Deloitte treat their employees similarly? Or was it garden-variety-H-1B-hatred which prompted you to post this?

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> Of course I agree that it was bad, but up to 20 years looks way to long for this crime.

<comment><USER10> Calling it fraud suggests that; 20 years in prison is an excessive punishment just for stealing money. But H1B is actually a large fraction of the way to slavery, and slavery is a worse crime than murder. So in this case I'd be fine with them getting the full 20 years.

<comment><USER11> You are comparing independent consultants/contractors to slaves, seriously?

<comment><USER10> Last I checked the terms of H1B, workers under it were not independent by a very long shot. Not outright slaves, granted, but the term 'indentured servitude' could reasonably be used.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Tim Cook explains the motivation behind Beats acquisition - <AUTHOR> http://www.tuaw.com/2014/05/28/tim-cook-explains-the-motivation-behind-beats-acquisition/

<comment><USER2> This seems strange to me. Wouldn't Apple's acquisition of LaLa have given them a head start in the music subscription business in '09?</comment>


Speculative Technology Pop-Up Event in the Bay Area - <AUTHOR> https://www.altr3.io <comment><AUTHOR> I spent the past month working with a group on a speculative technology research experience, and will be hosting a pop-up exhibition in SF, focused around the more secretive tech entities in Silicon Valley. If you are interested, you can request access at this link.</comment>


Why the Euro failed - <AUTHOR> https://qz.com/1377098/why-the-euro-failed/ <comment><USER2> The Euro didn't fail. It has flaws (as did many European currencies that existed before the Euro), but no EU member state has abandoned it, because the upsides outweigh the downsides and the costs of leaving would be enormous. Even Greece didn't do that, although they did come close.

<comment><USER3> Europe's most successful countries are the ones with their own currencies. It's easy to compare the differences in growth and debt with those in and out of the EZ. Ireland is the only true exception & it's for reasons relating to its tax policies.

<comment><USER2> What's your standard of success? Germany has the largest GDP in Europe by about a trillion dollars and uses the Euro.

<comment><USER3> GDP growth, consumption growth, manageability of debt, standard of life, employment rate. The central question being not "how big is it because of the euro" but "is it better because of the euro"

Germany and Benelux are high but problematic in areas of consumption. 41% of the German Economy is export orientated (meaning consumption is extremely low) and while employment rates are high, employment isn't completely 'full time', wages lag productivity significantly (pay is relatively bad) and debts in the private sector are heavily problematic. Not to mention Germany's population demographics don't have a bright future.

Contrast this to economies with their own currencies - the UK, Sweden, Norway, Poland, Denmark - which aren't dogged down by such problems. Sweden had a housing crash last year and is managing just fine despite it.

If the EZ had another crash it would be debatable whether it can still hold strong - a point reinforced by France's Finance Minister himself.

<comment><USER4> What do you mean, problematic on areas of consumption? ( From BE, fyi )

<comment><USER3> In simple terms most of Benelux & German GDP doesn't make its way into citizens pockets, as a result pay is relatively poor and has an impact on the standard of living. This is a result of official policy (Tarifeinheitsgesetz) meant to make labour more competitive.

If you look up GDP it is pretty big, but if you look up wages you will find its relatively bad.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> The article assumes that the Euro has failed and goes on from there. I would like to see what realistic scenario could have produced the implied Utopian vision the author implies is the only criteria for success.

</comment><comment><USER6> The death/failure of € is greatly exaggerated.

</comment><comment><USER7> aside from the economic issues which I believe are exaggerated, being able to travel around EU and not caring about exchange rates etc is really nice. moreover I order from online shops around europe and the only time I need to mentally convert prices is for amazon.co.uk.

</comment><comment><USER8> There is some baby and bathwater going on here. An assumption that everything to do with the Euro is bad and an assumption that everything bad is to do with the Euro.

For some people in Europe the Euro was a bit like when decimalisation happened in the UK - suddenly everything in every shop was marked up to be that bit more expensive. But people got over that, much like how people got over decimalisation in the UK, nobody wishes for 'pounds, shillings and pence' any more.

Trade is so much easier in Europe without the funny little currencies that there used to be. You don't get fleeced by people exchanging money from Lira to Francs to Deutschmarks to Irish Pounds and so forth. This helps the little guy as well as normal sized businesses.

In the pre-Euro days it was a regular thing to read stories about how places like Italy had shaved a few zeroes off their Lira due to hyperinflation. We don't have those stories now. I think the Euro has something to do with that. At least everyone in Europe has a currency that is worth something, before then half the European currencies were as useful as Monopoly money or crypto- ponzi-tokens.

There was also a lot of speculation on currencies in the pre-Euro days. Effectively 'pump and dump' schemes, some capitalist fat cats would get bored and pick on a currency to destroy. The only way to control this is to have restrictions on how much money people could travel with, so in pre-Euro days you might find yourself off on holiday to Greece or somewhere and not be able to take much more than pocket money with you.

History is generally written by people with an agenda who don't specifically lie to make their point (sell more books), instead they lie by omission. The Euro was not some dastardly neo-liberal scheme to economically colonise places like Greece and make things difficult for the German taxpayer. Saying so in fake academic b.s.-speak does not make it so. Europe has difficulties with things like Brexit, there is no need for reject 'scholars' from the IMF who aren't even European to stir people up into nationalistic fervour.

What next? An 'academic' who knows nothing about America could sell books on how the dollar has been a failed experiment and how the U.S. needs to have separate currencies per state. Sounds great, don't see why those nice folks in California should be bailing out those dossers in Detroit, right?

How well would business work inside the U.S. if you needed to change your New Mexico Pesos into Arizonan Pobble Beads each time you ventured out from Albuquerque for a day trip to the Grand Canyon? What if you only had Wyoming Whuffies and the stall at the inter-state border took 10% commission and claimed they only exchanged at a fraction of what you bought them for the day before?

That would make no sense at all, neither would it make any sense to have the Eurozone broken up into lots of currencies that can be played by the stock markets of London and New York for speculative gain.

<comment><USER9> >In the pre-Euro days it was a regular thing to read stories about how places like Italy had shaved a few zeroes off their Lira due to hyperinflation.

>We don't have those stories now. I think the Euro has something to do with that.

Yes, but it's not like Italian budget magically turned to proficit because of euro adoption. It still contains deficit, the one which EU is not happy about, and they are currently fighting with Italy. Maybe if lira was still italian currency, Italy devalued it a bit and that would be the end of the story.

Instead, there is a eurozone-wide problem of how to deal with populist italian government, and the cost of this problem is... €2.1 trillion (that's the amount of italian debt).

So, the problem was not resolved. It just was shifted into the future, with unclear implications.

<comment><USER10> Well, I see forcing member states to be fiscally responsible (Italy's current expenditures - _after removing debt /interest repayments_ \- are _curiously_ forever increasing even under the worst "austerity") something a union should do. The problem is the Euro is _not enough_ to do so.

Devaluation won't fix Italy's problems in the long term, it just shifts them into the future. The devaluations of the lira in the last ~30 years of the last century and the flattening economic growth in the '90s are there to prove it. You cannot keep drugging your economy forever, you'll pay for it in the end.</comment></comment></comment>


Ask HN: I failed a lot, what should I do? - <AUTHOR> I somehow got in to a top 5 CS program. I got D's in a lot of classes because they didn't want to give me F's. It was very hard following lectures and reading and understanding test questions. I graduated about a year ago. I did interviews and each one I got I was mercilessly shot down with tough CS questions. I got a job in sales, I was fired for paperwork errors. I am now unemployed, occasionally making web sites for people. It turns out my doctor says I probably have ADHD and I have been working with him on getting this diagnosed correctly but it takes time and I am already on medication, I don't want more. I can't get to grad school, I am having a hard time finding a job. I don't know what to do, I narrowed it down to either
1) going back to school for another degree taking on more loans to improve grades 2) trying my hand at a startup but I have about $1000 in my bank account and no ideas. 3) Looking for a job that requires a degree and no skills like selling insurance or loans at a bank but I am worried about being bored and prefer computers. I don't know what to do next, I live with my parents and they don't care what I do so long as I leave. My confidence in myself has been completely destroyed by all of this. <comment><USER2> What's an example of a tough CS question? Maybe you're getting shot down because the interviews you've been getting are unreasonable, or maybe you're getting shot down because there's a real deficit, at which point you'd need to make a decision between a career in software or something else. Both are equally plausible scenarios.

There's nothing intrinsically meaningful about your CS grades, so let's not interrogate those.

You're too young to have anything "completely destroyed" by a GPA and a couple bad interviews.

<comment><AUTHOR> Well I was asked to parallelize a loop where it was totally unobvious in one interview something like a sum of elements in an array where elements are replaced by the sum of elements from the previous elements(they didnt even shake my hand they just showed me the door silently), in another I had 30 minutes to design an algo that outputs from a matrix it's spiral in C(I think I know how to do this now but I couldn't solve it and program it there under pressure in 30 minutes and my solution is ugly), in another I had to use a semaphore to make a loop that increments up to some number and I didn't know what a semaphore was, I had to find if a linked list was looping, I had to write a code that deletes duplicate elements from a linked list and puts them in to a new sorted list in 30 minutes, the financial engineering jobs required the transcript so they didn't work out. I think I like CS and blame a lack of attention or preparedness for the grades. Maybe I am deluding myself though and need to move on.

<comment><USER2> You need more practice coding, because it doesn't look like you got a strong intuitive grasp for it from school. Those aren't great interview questions, but they're not serious CS problems either.

Also, you should definitely know what a semaphore is. Write some threaded Python code to get a feel for concurrency.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER3> I'm in the exact same position, except I'm waiting for results to come out this week to officially confirm that I've failed my degree. It's unfair to think that I've only started getting all interested in computer stuff right after my final exams. Before that, my best effort was pulling allnighters and scraping middle-marks in everything. My morale was super low until I decided to shift my procrastination from the Daily Mail to places like this. I then started to read articles on how to be happy and how to be self-sufficient and blah blah, and amazingly I feel quite encouraged by it. I then reached the milestone of "Mebbe programming isn't so bad after all" and now I'm looking at Ruby4Kids. I know your level's not as low as this, but I think it really helps to stop thinking about the future and just take baby steps in any direction you feel like doing. I'm not even bothering to fill in graduate job application forms because of the stupid computer-filtering thing that guarantees of my rejection anyway, but my 'plan' for the future is just keep crawling with my 'self-education' and keep eyes and ears open for ANY opportunities. As crap as the situation looks like now, I don't believe at all that I'm ungifted and because I'm not like the others chasing grades and stuff [tries to look smug] I think I've got qualities that most others don't. And failures aren't bad at all, in fact it can be a USP.

And don't think of the future too much! Opportunities are always everywhere, guaranteed :) (now need to repeat all this to myself)

<comment><USER4> _I decided to shift my procrastination from the Daily Mail to places like this_

Careful, HN is drug to many of us coders, proof is in the account settings with the maxvistis and mintimeaway settings.

<comment><USER3> 1) Coder? I said I'm looking at Ruby4kids!! 2) Anyway too late, I've just found out the 'new' link at the top, now I keep having to refresh the site every 5 mins xS

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Where do you live? There's a lot of "digital agency" type work that is good for someone with ADHD. But it's all in LA or NYC.

edit: also there's always QA

<comment><USER6> By digital agency, do you mean web dev shops?

<comment><USER5> Places like r/ga, instrument, canvas, huge, etc.

Usually marketing/advertising oriented. Make promo sites, web games, iOS apps, facebook campaigns, etc.

<comment><USER6> oh okay, thanks. how would you advice him to approach such companies, as he probably doesn't have a portfolio yet, plus he is new to web dev?

<comment><USER5> I guess just try applying for an entry level job. Many of those places are desperate and will hire anyone.

<comment><USER6> Thanks, this sounds interesting. At least, the work in these shops might be a bit more interesting than pure corporate places. Worth giving it a shot.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER7> I would suggest finding an employment opportunity that is in an area that you are passionate about. Figure out the requirements and do some reading and/or small projects that use the skills you will need in the position and apply when you are ready.

There is a huge difference between classroom learning and independent learning. You absorb the information at a lot higher rate when you are passionate about what you are learning about.

<comment><USER8> I would suggest finding ANY employment opportunity. You can always leave if your resume later. Your resume isn't a chronological list of everything you've done. It's a narrative about your greatest hits.

</comment></comment><comment><USER9> First, take a deep breath. You're going to be OK, even if it doesn't feel like it right now.

Next, take a look at today's Zen Habits -- [http://zenhabits.net/failed/](http://zenhabits.net/failed/). It can help you set perspective regarding what you've gone through. Money quote: "Someone once said there isn't failure, only feedback. That means the failure is just a point of information, a part of the learning process. I like to say, it's not a failure of me as a person, just a failure of my method. Which means I need to change my method."

Take some time (minutes, hours, or days) to identify the intersection of what you like and what you've excelled at. I find I like what I'm good at, so beware that bias.

Are you good at translating tech -> normal people speak? Possibly look to work in consulting.

Were you good at making sales, but bad at the paperwork? Try to develop your own system to get better at the paperwork.

Try to look objectively (meaning without judgement) at your past. What have you learned from your experience? I can promise you, you're not the first person to barely pass a tough CS program, nor will you be the last to get fired for sloppy paperwork. You'll be OK -- in fact, now is the perfect time for you to take your first step in your new direction.

If you need a job right away, I would suggest trying to get a position in any industry that will pay you. Learn the ropes in that industry for a little time while you get stability. You will be a technical wizard in whatever you do, if it involves technology. Once you learn an industry, and gain a little confidence in your capabilities, take a shot at combining your technical abilities with the industry.

Manufacturing, as a for example, relies entirely on technology that is run by people who have very little idea about how to use technology.

And relax. You have a world of options in front of you; they're hard to see because of all the pressure, but they exist.

Be well, monkeyspaw

</comment><comment><USER10> My suggestion is to hack. If you can't do that you won't be happy in the field. If you can, all you needed from the CS education was a guide to googling math in the future.

If you can find things that need implementing them and do it and they're useful, work will come.

When interviewing for a job, showing that you can:

\- identify problem spaces \- review the tools \- find a need for a better tool \- spec \- and implement it

Is what I look for when hiring geeks.

So my recommendation...

Find problems, build solutions (even if small and tool-like), get out and socialize at meetups and geek fora in your city and confidence should come.

</comment><comment><USER4> My suggestion seeing as you have webdev experience...what is your passion? Follow that. I'm hoping you have a site in mind, or a project that has been sitting on the back burner...code like crazy and shoot for the stars!

Realize one thing, you are your biggest investor, if you don't invest in your self (the time in your own passion), then no one else will.

Not to appear overly optimistic, but there is alot of money and opportunity out there...put your name on it.

</comment><comment><USER11> What do you like to do? What makes you feel alive and happy? Is there any way you could do more of that or something like it and get paid for it?

</comment><comment><USER12> Try hard, don't worry about results, stop thinking. :)

</comment><comment><USER13> can you link ur cv, portfolio, anything?

<comment><AUTHOR> [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1av8zfzjw5l4-HQSmKE2s3Sud...](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1av8zfzjw5l4-HQSmKE2s3Sudun5E3ky_1U9TPo8x6Y0/edit?usp=sharing)

If this ^ link works, I excluded the sales portion. My cv is a bit embellished, the courses I barely passed were algorithms, real analysis, graph theory, number theory, and a statistics class. I couldn't follow the teacher's talking and reading was difficult. I have talked with several hedge funds in my area who shot me down, a couple startups who shot me down, and microsoft. The gpa was looked at, algorithms was the most crucial thing I missed.

<comment><AUTHOR> I made it no longer public if anyone reads this, it was probably a stupid idea broadcasting who I was publicly in this context because that is a sure way of shooting yourself in the foot in case an employer didn't ask about the specifics.</comment></comment></comment>


Uber App Gains Long-Desired Tipping Option - <AUTHOR> https://www.macrumors.com/2017/06/20/uber-app-gains-tipping-option/ <comment><AUTHOR> I've always thought that if thy add tipping it will go a long way to solving resentment on the drivers side.

Also, I've always wished there was a way to tip drivers!</comment>


You are a Sparkly Code Princess. Own it - <AUTHOR> http://blog.acthompson.net/2012/11/words-matter.html

<comment><USER2> I would totally apply for a job where the title was "Sparkly Code Princess"</comment>


Ask HN: How do you restrict the amount of screen time for kids? - <AUTHOR> My kids use multiple devices (Windows, Iphone, Ipad) -- Is it possible to restrict access to specific sites for only specific times (say from 9-11AM) and to specific total hours (Say, no more than 30 mins) at the network level? <comment><USER2> I'm also interested as I just started looking into it for my kids. Right now, they only have access to 1h/day max of screen time. I take the ipad and put it in kiosk mode with one app only (ABCs/Reading/Math) and I pick it up after 30mins and redo the same setup with youtube for kids (they watch 15mins) and again another time where they pick a moderately educational game and that's my routine. I think there must be an app where I can select which apps are allowed and how much time so I don't have to use a timer and give them a sense of "freedom" haha.</comment>


Impersonation and Identity Theft Risk on GitHub and How to Prevent It - <AUTHOR> https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/2019/02/impersonation-and-identity-theft-risk-on-github-and-how-to-prevent-it/ <comment><USER2> Github is pretty good at flagging any traffic coming from VPNs like PIA as suspicious, so don't be surprised if you can't perform certain actions.</comment>


A JavaScript Constructor Problem, and Three Solutions - <AUTHOR> http://raganwald.com/2014/07/09/javascript-constructor-problem.html

<comment><USER2> I like this thorough explanation.

In my code, I mostly avoid this issue by relying on jshint's "newcap" option to detect when a constructor function is called without the new keyword.</comment>


China's 996 working hour system - <AUTHOR> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/996_working_hour_system <comment><USER2> This seems like a good way to burn out your entire workforce. Assuming 8 hours of sleep a night, that leaves just 40 hours of free time a week, much less if you consider going to/from work, household chores, and all the other daily things that eat up your time. My guess is that this strategy might be more productive in the short-term, but less so in the long-term

<comment><USER3> Along with burnout, I would imagine there's a lot of "looking busy" if you have to stay at work for 12 hours each day.

The culture of "face" and personal image is quite strong in China, and my hypothesis is that the 996 system provides signaling of "dedication" and "hard work" from leadership and employees, but the system doesn't do much in terms of achieving business outcomes. ( _in the sense that output is not the same as outcomes_ ).

I may be wrong though. After all, maybe your desired outcome is to signal "dedication".

</comment></comment><comment><USER4> Is this phenomenon unique to China? Many of us in my current company are unofficially on a 996 kind of system as we are nearing our release date.</comment>


The State of Cryptography in PHP - <AUTHOR> https://paragonie.com/blog/2015/09/state-cryptography-in-php#resubmit <comment><USER2> This is a decent review of recent/past happenings in PHP cryptography, and where things are going in the future. I agree that we need a PSR for cryptography primitives—it'd prevent quite a few problems.

<comment><AUTHOR> I'm moving less for a PSR and more for a core library that abstracts cryptography details away from the user. The average PHP developer can't be trusted to Encrypt-then-MAC, so why burden them with the responsibility?

<comment><USER2> While true, there are quite a few programmers who can. I'd go for a core library + PSR, so that the average developer can still use the core library. That way advanced developers can use something PSR compatible, and libraries that depend on the core library can still function.</comment></comment></comment>


Build Android native code in Visual Studio 2010 - <AUTHOR> http://code.google.com/p/vs-android/ <comment><USER2> This is an amazing jump. Im not bragging about it, but Visual Studio is by far the best IDE out there and to actually have android linked into is is certainly big news on my front. Love it!

<comment><USER3> Strong statement there. How many IDE's have you tried? You should qualify your statement a bit. Maybe it's the best one _you've_ tried, or you could even argue it's the best IDE for C# / .NET (which I'm not sure is true either, but I haven't tried the alternatives).

<comment><USER4> I've tried Eclipse, IntelliJ and Netbeans. Visual Studio is the best IDE.

<comment><USER3> I guess you haven't tried the AllegroCL IDE :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> There's also MonoDroid, currently in Beta, and will cost money. But it lets you program for the Android in VS2010.

</comment><comment><USER6> Is there emulator/debugging support?

</comment><comment><USER7> This seems very cool. Well be great when ogre gets ported to android.</comment>


Ask HN: How to choose the right language - <AUTHOR>

I am a beginner reading the recently posted "How to be a Programmer" article and there is a section on choosing languages. The author discusses choosing the "best language for the task." That is something I see discussed quite frequently. I know there are languages that are most commonly used for certain tasks, but how do you decide between two similar languages? Like building a web app in Ruby vs. Python? Can anyone give an example like this? <comment><USER3> You probably won't have enough experience to decide which language is a better fit for a project until you know at least one of them quite thoroughly. At that point, the differences that will actually matter _to you_ should be much clearer.

While people can argue about the relative merits of Ruby and Python for days, the direct impact of language characteristics on a beginner are likely to be overwhelmed by other issues. For example, if a friend knows one of them quite well, go with that one - he/she can probably answer some questions, and in the short term that's far more important.

The same principle holds for Linux/BSD distributions, version control systems, and so on: If there's not a huge consensus and the differences don't mean much to you, just pick one. You'll be in a better position to make an informed decision later, and you're not stuck with it forever. Time spent trying to decide could instead be put toward learning the basics.

Another example that comes to mind is systems for parsing. There's ANTLR, lex + yacc, packrat parsers/PEGs, Prolog's DCGs, etc. While they have different strengths, any deep comparison will also nonchalantly throw around terms like LALR(1).

<comment><USER4> Perfect advice for a beginner. I was wasting so much time reading language debates, pros-cons, and comparisons. I was overwhelming myself with things I didn't understand.

Had I just picked a language and just ran with it, I would be farther down the road than where I am now. So just grab something, sit down, and play with it.

<comment><USER3> It's easy to find blog posts to talk yourself out of getting started with any language. None of them are perfect! Lisp has that "stupid parenthetical syntax" [1], Python has the whitespace thing, Lua indexes from 1, Javascript ...

I started tinkering with Prolog as a summer project, and as a side effect, Erlang makes _sooo much more sense_ now. (Erlang was originally implemented in Prolog, and inherited a lot of its syntax & style.) I picked it deliberately because it's quite far from everything I know, and Peter Norvig said a lot of interesting things about it in PAIP. Chatter on the web gives the impression that it's just some weird dead AI language, but I've found it really inspiring. I'm glad I didn't let that discourage me. Even if the only benefit I get from it is the insight into Erlang's design, being able to read Sterling & Shapiro's _The Art of Prolog_* , and finally getting how unification/pattern matching and type inference work, it was time well spent.

* Which is awe-inspiring. I would recommend it regardless of whether you care about Prolog, much like Norvig's PAIP is worth reading even if you don't care about Common Lisp.

[1]: [http://www.cs.brown.edu/~sk/Publications/Talks/SwineBeforePe...](http://www.cs.brown.edu/~sk/Publications/Talks/SwineBeforePerl/)

<comment><USER4> I'm just a newbie pythonista, so I'll just nod and smile. :)

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> Most common languages (but _not_ all languages) are basically equivalent, and choosing one or another is more a matter of taste rather than "the best tool for the job". If, for example, you want to write a web app and need to choose between Ruby, Python or Perl pick the one you know best and go with it.

One factor that can make the language choice important is the speed of the program: if you need to make a computationally heavy application, you'd better choose a fast language. This would rule out interpreted languages. In such a case, you should choose Common Lisp/C/C++/Java/C# rather than Perl/Python/Ruby.

Another important factor is the platform where your app will be running. If it's on your own server, you can use whatever you prefer. If it's on the iphone, the most abvious choice is Objective-C. If it's a small device with little memory and low computing power, languages with a low memory footprint and manual memory allocation like C and Forth would make a better choice than Python or Ruby.

</comment><comment><USER6> Use Python.

If Python is too slow, use C.

If you don't know C, use Java.

If you don't know any of these, you ought to learn at least one. Use Python.

<comment><USER3> Care to say why?

</comment></comment><comment><USER7> Funny, when I was a beginner most people hacking on a computer at home had two choices, either some dialect of BASIC or, assembler. Today you can probably choose from literally hundreds of languages.

Here's what I'd recommend: start off with an interpreted language, maybe Python, and work through a couple of tutorials. If you want to be a little different maybe look at Lua. Then try to build something. Tutorials are good but not as motivating as your own project. I would avoid IDEs like Visual Studio at first, they have a lot of power but for a beginner they might be distracting and keep too much under the covers that you really need to understand.

Then start exploring other stuff. At some point you should try a functional language. Work through a book like the Little LISPer until you "get" recursion, currying, how the Y-combinator works (no not this site). Definitely take the time to learn C and pointers. Even assembly. Learn about object- oriented programming. Exposure to all these perspectives will make you a better programmer, no matter which language ultimately becomes your favorite.

</comment><comment><USER8> The most important thing when choosing a first language is to choose a language that will allow you to get stuff done as quickly as possible. The only way to learn how to program is to build stuff, and if you optimize for that, the minor differences between two languages are actually a pretty marginal factor in comparison to the advantages of getting your hands dirty and having some early successes.

I like Python very much and think that it's a fantastic language for building things and probably the best language for learning programming. But if, say, all your friends use Ruby, or you find that Ruby has better libraries for whatever it is you hope to be doing then I'd recommend you choose Ruby. In fact, I think PHP is an awful language and that learning is is a complete waste of time, but if you're in an environment where using PHP is the best way to get up and running, you should choose that.

All other things being equal, I think Python would be the best choice for you. It's a great, very versatile language, designed from the ground to be easy to learn and understand. It comes with libraries for doing pretty much anything you might want to do with a computer. It has a wonderful community - <USER2> mature and very helpful. You'll find it easy to get very high quality help learning Python.

</comment><comment><USER9> In my opinion there's too much emphasis on general-purpose languages over domain-specific ones. There's lots of low-hanging fruit in the domain-specific space.

While designing or implementing a worthwhile Turing-complete, general-purpose programming language with a correct and efficient implementation is a huge undertaking and requires vast amounts of knowledge, doing the same for a domain-specific language is much easier because the scope is much more focused and the efficiency requirements are often not as strict.

As long as you focus on semantics, limit the scope of your language, use declarative techniques like pattern-matching that will let you avoid the Turing-completeness trap (Turing-completeness makes your code hard to analyse and process, unlike declarative data) and use a proper general-purpose language for the implementation, designing and implementing a domain-specific language is really not that hard, though proper IDE integration and a debugger are still not so easy to do.

I like to _make_ the right tool for the job, so I use Common Lisp, which makes it almost ridiculously easy to invent new s-expression-based syntaxes via macros and compile through production of trees of closures, among other things.

</comment><comment><USER10> Also dont forget that once you learn the language well, say you picked python, dont evanglise it as the best language onces you have fnished your first little app or program. Read about other languages also and just play around alittle. If you know one well you know where you can always run when there is a big project you want to do, but give others ago, you could be pleasnantly suprised

I know alot of poeple who picked up perl as their first language during uni and wont pickup anything else cause they are so deeply into it and say its the best language. It might be from their point of view which is fine but dont let the first language you learn be the only one you ever use also.

Like the other guys said, if your a beginner pick one, hell pick python for the simple reason that _google use it_ (so it must be good) get used to it and then try to compare with others once you get the swing of things.

Like buying a guitar for the first time, you dont know which one is good cause you dont know what a good guitar is supposed to sounds like so you buy a fender or a les paul cause one of your idols use it !

</comment><comment><USER11> _How do you decide between two similar languages?_

If two languages are truly similar, like Ruby/Python or Java/C#, it doesn't matter much which you start with. If I were you I'd pick one based on gut feeling or a coin flip and get at it.

</comment><comment><USER12> You don't choose a language in such case as you don't build with Ruby nor with Python. You build with the language and a web framework such rails or django.

There are many things to consider. And most of the issues ar non-technical

\- will there be support for the frameworks, language etc long enough?

\- are the coders competent with the language / framework

\- what limitations exists on deployment

\- what limitations the customer imposes

Of course if there's are no non-technical issues to consider, go for the technically "best" solution.

</comment><comment><USER13> There are probably two dimensions to this:

1) Whether the features and capabilities of the language match the task

2) Your familiarity with using a given language for a type of task.

There might be a third, somewhat less tangible concept of "elegance" mixed in there too, insofar as that some languages might lend themselves to very direct, elegant solutions to a particular problem, while others might require more round-about ways of doing things.

If you wanted to become good at comparing programming languages, the best way would probably be to read up on various classes of programming features. For example, type systems, object systems and other factors that generally influence programming language design. The other way would be to actually use some of the languages in question to get a sense of whether they agree with your preferred manner of problem solving. This might also give you a chance to explore library support and documentation and other related factors are that might influence your decision.

After you've programmed in a bunch of different languages, using a whole lot of different paradigms, you generally start to be able to pick the similarities and differences between languages pretty quickly, hopefully with reference to your past experience about what you do and don't like in a programming language.

</comment><comment><USER14> If your new web app isn't too complex to get bootstrapped, you will learn better if you choose a light framework: ruby - Merb or Sinatra, python - webpy, etc...

One of the reasons you see so much disappointment with ruby is people start with rails and that doesn't really help you become a good ruby programmer. It may actually teach you bad habits and keep you from knowing how the language and http requests, and db requests really work (none of which is that complicated).

I use ruby over python. Mainly because I picked it up first and don't have a good reason to switch. I use merb as my framework, which is a fine choice, but if I had to start again, I might go with Sinatra.

If you do go with Ruby, buy this book: The Ruby Programming Language [http://www.amazon.com/Ruby-Programming-Language-David- Flanag...](http://www.amazon.com/Ruby-Programming-Language-David- Flanagan/dp/0596516177)

I have seen no text that comes close to this new book in teaching Ruby.

</comment><comment><USER15> Speed of execution and expressiveness are common factors, and this depends on what you're doing. For instance, regular expressions. If you're doing a program that is primarily _not_ dealing with text, but occasionally needs a regex, then Python regexes would be fine. If the program does a lot of text processing, it should probably use Perl, due to the performance and built-in syntax. And if the _entire program_ is a simple filter, "sed" is even better than the Perl sledgehammer.

The standard library can be a big factor. Not having to download a dependency is a big win, which is why large standard libraries such as Python can often be better than something like a CPAN dependency in Perl. It can be the difference between using C++ or Objective-C, versus C. But more generally, if you need to do X, and you already know how to do it with language Y, you'll need a really good reason to try a different language.

</comment><comment><USER16> Consider expressiveness. The number of lines of code that a programmer can write in a month tends to be a constant independent of language. A program in Java takes 2 to 5 times as many lines of code as in Python. In Java you will get a lot less accomplished.

Take a look at the standard libraries and third party packages. If someone else has written it, you dont have to, unless you want the experience. Python, Java, and Perl have lots. Ruby and IO less so.

Look at job listings. If you are starting out, you might as well pick on that you can get money for.

Look at the communities. Are the people ones that you would like to hang around with. If they dont like newbies, look elsewhere. Python seems to be pretty good in that respect.

As for web development, Python has Django (I recommend) and Pylons. Ruby has Rails. Stay away from Java; everything is too damned complicated, but there are a lot of jobs.

<comment><USER17> I feel a need to stand up for Java here. Most of Java's nasty reputation comes from J2EE, and not the language itself.

Java is a wonderful tool for a LOT of systems programming. It's got a nice object model, automatic memory management, and pretty good execution speed. Given the choice between C++ and Java, I'll take Java every time. Remember, Java was originally designed for embedded systems like set-top boxes. It's still one of the best languages out there for those kinds of applications.

It's not a good fit for UI or web work, but neither is C/C++. As always, consider the type of job before selecting a tool.

<comment><USER18> > It's not a good fit for UI or web work, but neither is C/C++.

That's so true. Java is a great general purpose language but it so terribly verbose when you're trying to do string heavy or database work. The web is _both_.

One thing though, compared to several years ago the speed penalty has all but disappeared, it's fast enough to build some pretty impressive stuff with it.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER19> Some great stuff here in the comments for you, but don't get caught up in decision paralysis. The truth is no matter which you learn it will create a foundation for you to (if you're interested) pick up other languages and/or frameworks. Get one solidly under your belt. None of the languages/frameworks are perfect- all will have you scratching your head (or banging it on the table) from time to time. Some will be a better foundation than others (Ruby and Python would both be great here).

So don't spend too much more time thinking about it. If you just need someone to just tell you where to dive in so you can really get going here you go: If you have or plan on growing a beard- Python/Django. If you plan on staying clean shaven and dressing smartly- Ruby/Rails. When you've mastered the current choice and have a nice career going, go ahead and master the other(s).

<comment><USER4> I don't understand, why does one need a beard for Python/Django? Is Ruby/Rails more hip?

<comment><USER20> I think he was referring to Rails being very structured, and Django giving you the flexibility to do it your way. It depends on your tastes; I prefer Ruby/Rails.

<comment><USER21> I don't have (or want) a beard, but prefer Ruby/Ramaze.

Luckily, in both Python and Ruby there are many choices for Web dev, so don't let that drive the language choice.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER18> For a very simple language start with HTML, then add some javascript and then go for a server side scripting language.

That way you can sort of ease in to the concepts of syntax (and debugging) in a familiar environment.

Adding some js will give you some client side functionality, from there it is a (relatively) small step to running some code on the server.

Then you can add things like databases and so on.

The language itself is not the most important factor, the method (edit - (compile) - test - evaluate and iterate) is.

You'll learn how to set yourself a goal (say building a website), sketching it out (paper is good), then make a static html mock-up, then expand on that.

This will take you some time!

</comment><comment><USER22> If you're planning to write for the web (who isn't), then I prefer javascript for 2 simple reasons:

1\. Unless you use Flash, you'll probably have to use some javascript anyway if you want any logic on your client.

2\. You can click View:Source on any web page to see the javascript running that page. You'll have millions of examples of source code _along with_ that code in action right now on your machine. A live example is an excellent learning tool.

You can also use javascript for your server side logic, but that's another debate altogether. If you build some pages that do something first, you can worry about the back end later.

<comment><USER13> I can't help but notice that this does nothing to answer the question, which was about how to decide between _any_ two languages, with Python and Ruby given as examples, rather than "What language should I use for web programming?", which appears to be the question you have answered.

<comment><USER14> The question is too open ended if you take that approach and does not allow for concrete answers. The OP does allude to the fact that he wants to build a webapp and does mention ruby and python, both decent choices. A lot of the answers here suggest that either is a fine choice, which perhaps is all the OP needs to hear.

<comment><USER13> I really have to call you on this one. Usually I would just let it go, but really, this has just missed the mark. You're suggesting that the presence of certain keywords in a question permit you to totally rephrase that question and then answer that instead?

I'll quote from the post:

> _The author discusses choosing the "best language for the task." That is > something I see discussed quite frequently. I know there are languages that > are most commonly used for certain tasks, but how do you decide between two > similar languages?_

 _That_ was the question being asked.</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Amazon Buys U.K. Online Bookseller - <AUTHOR> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304760604576425752950867920.html

<comment><USER2> This is terrible news.

Book Depository was the cheapest and best place to buy books online.</comment>


An answer to David Carr's question on "how to build an iTunes for newspapers." - <AUTHOR> http://www.slate.com/id/2208445/pagenum/all <comment><USER2> I like the _idea_ of reading on the iphone or a netbook, but the eyestrain feels like pouring salt in my eyes while pushing on the sockets.

<comment><USER3> Have you tried Kindle reading? It's really in a class of its own.</comment></comment>


Android- how to launch lync 2013 from myapp - <AUTHOR> http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/office/forum/office_mobile-officeapps/android-how-to-launch-lync-2013-from-myapp/d306b8cd-4026-454e-b6fd-f0fc2357962f?tm=1440921435474

<comment><AUTHOR> Hi I have a use case where I need to launch the Lync application conversation window from my application. I need to start a Conversation Window with the emailID i provide in the intent. my code :- if (lyncDoesExist()) {

                Uri lyncUri = Uri.parse("lync://firstname.lastname@example.com");
                Intent myIntent = new Intent(Intent.ACTION_VIEW);

                myIntent.setData(lyncUri);
                myIntent.addCategory(Intent.CATEGORY_DEFAULT);
                startActivity(myIntent);

            }

This just starts the HubActivity ( the Lync application) . It doesnot start the ConversationWindowActivity (the chat window of the specific email id that I passed) Am I missing anything in the code above ? I need to open the conversation window. FYI - I also tried using Uri lyncUri = Uri.parse("sip:email@example.com"); but android says no activity found to handle the request. Kindly help . I need this urgently.

Thanks, Animesh.

</comment><comment><USER2> Did you mean to post this on stackoverflow.com?</comment>


IntelliJ IDEA 14.1 - <AUTHOR> http://blog.jetbrains.com/idea/2015/03/intellij-idea-14-1-is-here/

<comment><USER2> I'll go against the flow of people not happy about IntelliJ. My experience with it started with Android Studio which I found WAY better than eclipse. I like the UI better, I find it faster, easier and more configurable. Since then I started using IntelliJ products for everything, there are flavour for any environment you need, from Python to ruby or whatever. I can keep my settings in any context and there are tool for many frameworks and integrations like django or App Engine.

I don't find it particularly slow. It's not blazing fast, but I would say it's in the norm.

For the price I think it's a great asset to have.

<comment><USER3> I totally agree. I have purchased licenses for IntelliJ, RubyMine, and PyCharm for years.

That said, 90% of the time I spend using Jetbrains projects is now simply using IntelliJ to edit Clojure and Clojurescript files. I run repls externally, and setup shortcuts for use with :reload or :reload-all. As a Clojure editor I like the fast code navigation, autocomplete, and visual warnings of syntax errors.

<comment><USER4> Do you use Cursive? Last time I tried it I found some weird bugs in the text editing which caused problems for me. I very much wanted it to work though, I need to try it again.

<comment><USER3> I install and use Cursive, occasionally, but I am waiting for it to ship as a product. Then I will probably buy it. The author has sent me a few emails, and seems dedicated to the project.

</comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER5> I'm using IntelliJ on Windows for Scala dev, and boy is it slow. I have to manually set the process priority to "Below Normal" every time, or it will soak up all system resources and music playback becomes jittery. Clicking right on anything is a four-second pause mistake.

It's free, so I shouldn't be complaining. Thanks for the product! Really, it's better than vim (especially with the intellij vim-mode plugin). I appreciate it.

But I'd feel a bit sour had I paid money for this. Especially after having seen Visual Studio. Wow, what a difference.

EDIT: laptop specs fwiw: Lenovo G505s, AMD A10, 8GB RAM, normal HDD.

EDIT2: Comparing the UI to other java apps is disingenuous. I'm no UI expert, but this looks fine. It won't win any awards, but it's not your average pile of swig.

<comment><USER6> It depends on the language you're using (working with Scala is usually slow). Also, make sure that IntelliJ caches are on an SSD. VS is very quick, but for example parsing C# is very easy compared to Scala (partly because C# was designed for that from day zero). Maven also slows down things a bit (IntelliJ can search in classes that are not even referenced by the project.)

<comment><USER7> I gave up on IntelliJ and went back to NetBeans because of the bass-ackwards way IntelliJ handles Maven projects. There's no need for both IntelliJ's project file and the POM to track dependencies. In fact, there's no need for IntelliJ to maintain its own project file at all outside the POM.

<comment><USER6> Well, you might need both. The POM only contains information on how to build the project, while the IntelliJ project file also contains extra information that might be personalized, things like tab size, JDK version, and millions of other things. My policy is to only put the POM into VCS, and keep the .idea stuff only on the local box.

<comment><USER7> NetBeans just has the nbactions.xml file, which defines a small number of things like the main class and some context menu actions (this is very useful for OSGi projects, where you often have to switch between different build/run profiles). It's pretty lightweight, and it leaves everything else to the POM.

Oh, and on that note, that wasn't the only reason I left IntelliJ. I also disliked how it handled having multiple projects open. If you don't want everything in separate windows, IntelliJ makes you create a dummy project and import everything as modules. NetBeans just does what I want automatically.

</comment></comment></comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Finally some high-dpi support after a lot of ( [https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-114944](https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-114944) , [https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-124304](https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-124304) , [https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-117729](https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-117729) ) complaints for about a year and a half.

</comment><comment><USER9> I'd love to use IntelliJ, but no matter what obscure hacks I try, I simply cannot get it to render fonts properly under Ubuntu 14.10. This makes me sad, because it seems awesome for Scala.

<comment><USER10> I have very good news for you.

1\. Download this patched jdk from [https://code.google.com/p/tuxjdk/](https://code.google.com/p/tuxjdk/)

2\. Extract it somewhere

3\. Make it your JAVA_HOME before launching IntelliJ.

4\. Profit!

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I always fail to understood why these products are so ugly to see...

<comment><USER12> I disagree they're straight-up _ugly_ , but they're certainly _cluttered_ , and I think there's a very simple reason for that:

IntelliJ (or VisualStudio, or Xcode, or anything in this class) is an expert tool. Expert tools can be insanely complex to use, and can have very steep learning curves, because the people who use them are willing and able to invest the time. In exchange, the tools assume that most users are going to want to customize the living daylights out of their tooling.

This means that really good IDEs like IntelliJ, Visual Studio, etc., can optimize for two separate extremes. On the one hand, it almost _doesn 't matter_ how cluttered they are, because experts are going to customize them to look exactly how they want anyway. On the _other_ hand, they pack _so much functionality_ that they face a very real problem of people not even knowing what's there in the first place. (E.g., did you know you can debug any browser's JavaScript directly from IntelliJ? I sure didn't until surprisingly recently, but apparently that's been there for quite some time.) So there's also a mode that displays _all the things that the IDE can possibly do_ , and you're completely correct that that mode looks borderline unusable.

Honestly, as long as the clutter is done sanely, I'm okay with it. I frequently toggle between just-the-code and all-the-things when I'm in IntelliJ, and the recent No Distraction mode makes doing that a lot simpler. If I know a keyboard shortcut, awesome. If I don't, I have the shortcuts for all the panes hardwired, so at least I can quickly browse the 25 buttons that show up, immediately discard the 15 I recognize, and quickly find which of the remaining 10 actually does what I want. I'm not going to argue this is the _most_ elegant or _most_ efficient, but I'm not convinced it's a horrible trade-off, either.

<comment><USER13> I disagree about having to look cluttered. Here's how my Visual Studio usually looks like [http://i.imgur.com/imqiWGT.png](http://i.imgur.com/imqiWGT.png)

<comment><USER14> And for the record, here's my IntelliJ Ultimate Edition. [http://imgur.com/r78ATGQ](http://imgur.com/r78ATGQ)</comment></comment></comment></comment>


Map Trends Show Mobile And App Growth Outpacing Browsers - <AUTHOR> http://techcrunch.com/2011/07/18/map-trends-show-mobile-and-app-growth-outpacing-browsers/

<comment><AUTHOR> and bunch of the companies are still betting on the web platform, trying to convince others that web is the best way on mobile development.

The webview on android uses at least 4 threads, which consumes a lot more battery and slower than native apps that's written efficiently. And the worst part is, even if you are loading "HTML" straight from your phone, it still will never as efficient and smooth as the native apps.

I think the only exception to the rule is WebOS, which runs extremely smooth, this is because the entire architecture was built that way.</comment>


Paul Graham PyCon 2012 keynote - <AUTHOR> http://pyvideo.org/video/628/keynote-paul-graham-ycombinator <comment><USER2> This is better than TED. It's rare and inspiring to see an engaging speaker with so many good ideas in one presentation. PG's response to the music copyright critic was about right modulo a minor nit that the critic conflated trademarks with copyright and wasn't called on this. Trademarks are a social good. Copyright is ripe for reform--a long discussion.

PG is absolutely right about email. If you ever had a chance to see what the inbox of someone important looks like compared with what they would like it to look like, you would know that the seemingly reasonable recommendation to consolidate email accounts with GMail is far from optimal.

</comment><comment><USER3> I don't mean to be harsh but after reading the article I couldn't listen to the "Uhhh Ehmmmm"s anymore.

Was he just reading the transcript to the guys? A keynote should be without any "uhh"s and "ehmmm"s otherwise you will not get audience IMO.

<comment><USER4> 'what HN users don't mean to be:'

[http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=%22I+don%27...](http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=%22I+don%27t+mean+to+be%22&sortby=create_ts+asc)

<comment><USER5> "English to nerd translation":

[http://www.whattofix.com/blog/archives/2012/03/nerd-to- engli...](http://www.whattofix.com/blog/archives/2012/03/nerd-to-english.php)

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER6> When talking about the Apple killer pg states two things.

1\. The next product visionary will have a great example in Jobs and Apple. 2\. The next Apple probably won't start with a consumer product, but they might be able to make some consumer thingy like Jawbone does.

Nest creates a great consumer thingy that's relatively cheap and it's run by an ex Apple employee. Tony Fadell might say he's not pursuing Apple's business, but is it unreasonable to think he might when the Apple pirate ship starts sinking?

<comment><USER7> Nest is certainly one of the leading candidates, as far as one could tell this early. A thermostat is exactly the right sort of apparently harmless thing to start with.

<comment><USER6> What other leading candidates can you think of?

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER8> Here's the transcript at Graham's site <http://www.paulgraham.com/ambitious.html>

</comment><comment><USER9> See also the comments in this thread: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3686840>

</comment><comment><USER10> This is my first time seeing and listening Paul Graham. Why is he going on ummm ummmm? It is so distracting. I don't want to be seen as critical, just a feedback.

<comment><USER9> You'd do that too if you had to present in front of a large group of Python developers. Calling them the center of the valley was a little over the top, though.

</comment></comment><comment><USER11> I have been debating whether or not to say anything because I know by saying something you may have hurt feelings. And I have no obligation to tell you everything I know or think. But on reflection I have found it more honest -- honest in the older sense of "straightforward" or "direct" -- to share with you that I found the talk enjoyable and interesting. I think there are many benefits in starting small.

</comment><comment><USER12> I enjoyed the talk and admired his good use of clarity when talking about the problems. However, the counter to clarity is that it might be a bit too clean for the real world, and that was apparent when answering the questions about copyright at the end.

I realize that pg wasn't particularly prepared to be dealing with questions unrelated to the talk, but it was the first time I've seen him not easily handle questions with grace. His responses came off as glib and eventually he had to qualify and edit his previous statements to provide somewhat of a satisfactory response.

It's easy to over-believe ideas that are put forth with clarity and match your natural disposition towards clean logic and historical examples. Though pg has intriguing and useful perspectives, I encourage people to study these problems far more in-depth before forming a personal opinion.

On a somewhat related note, it was alarming that pg didn't have a clear moral position when asked about his decision-making process. It's fine for the young and uninfluential to "wing it" when it comes to moral decision-making, but seems irresponsible for someone with his level of power in Silicon Valley.

<comment><USER13> "Morals" are an excuse people use to try to impose their personal interest over others. Honest people use reasoning instead. I'm glad pg is open and honest enough to not include "morality" discussion in his decision. And not even be ashamed to try to hide it in public, as a populist politician would. That got him some points from me.

<comment><USER12> Morality is a lot deeper than you're making it out to be. Please don't straw man my argument to mean phony, superficial "Morals." I'd suggest starting with a survey of moral philosophy.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Its interesting to listen to this after reading the article; its as I'm rereading with a laugh track.

</comment><comment><USER15> pg, your audience had no sense of humor; don't worry, I laughed. :)

</comment><comment><USER16> Hummmm...

</comment><comment><USER17> Was waiting for this one :-)

</comment><comment><USER18> Question for pg:

 _There is probably an essay there, too bad I don't write them anymore_ (43.30 in video, regarding "moral compass outsourcing")

Have you stopped writing essays? Does that mean you're shifting your focus to YC 100% or going back to work on arc again? Or are you talking about non- startup essays?

<comment><USER7> Actually I just wrote the first draft of one of the essays I said during that talk I should write.

Writing essays depends on having uninterrupted blocks of time. Between kids and the growth of YC I don't have as many of those as I used to. I should try to arrange things so I have more.

<comment><USER19> Evidentially there is time to be had if you quit reading your email. I really enjoyed the talk. Thanks for coming out

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER20> But maybe the ''Ahemmmms'' had the meaning of ''The naked king'' story...and nobody called him out.Otherwise great speach,enjoyed reading it

</comment><comment><USER21> Hmmm...Erm...Hmmm...Erm These 2 sounds keep repeating in my ears after watching the talk.

</comment><comment><USER22> Listening to Paul Graham philosophizing about product ideas is like listening to product guys trying to talk finance.

</comment><comment><USER9> Thanks for posting. Notes from this keynote were also discussed here: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3685444>

PG seems down on Google from the initial statement that it may have peaked, to making fun of its search results as similar to the scientologist principle of "what's true is what's true for you" or something that makes you feel like you are being A-B tested, to Gmail being painfully slow. PG said he would pay $50/month for a good email replacement, and after just having talked about his friend at Google complaining of too much email and saying Gmail was slow, I think he was implying that Gmail needs to be replaced.

So, what interests me most about this is his mention of his friend at Google.

Read: [http://www.gototheboard.com/articles/How_to_find_startup_ide...](http://www.gototheboard.com/articles/How_to_find_startup_ideas)

Matt Cutts (search engine God of Google) said "I'll stop with a story. I have a friend at Google who is really good at noticing things that annoy him. While walking from his car to his desk in the morning, he can easily find six things that irritate him because they should be improved."

Matt says this is "his" friend, but is Matt Cutts PG's Google friend? This sounds very similar, and there is a hint of their relationship at the end of this article when PG got him to personally handle an issue with HN not being listed first in search results: [http://getoffmyinternets.net/2011/11/25/paul- graham-knows-ho...](http://getoffmyinternets.net/2011/11/25/paul-graham-knows- how-to-scal/)

However, a better guess is probably that it is Peter Norvig, Director of Research. There are examples of their relationship around, like Peter reading a draft of his: <http://www.paulgraham.com/softwarepatents.html> and <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=355984>

It's interesting that PG is pushing for someone to compete with Google though. It is almost like these comments were meant to be a public criticism of Google by his friend via PG rather than just to provide startup ideas.

<comment><USER7> _It is almost like these comments were meant to be a public criticism of Google by his friend via PG rather than just to provide startup ideas._

No. Why would I allow myself to be used in that way?

<comment><USER9> My apologies. I did not mean that you were being used. More that your friend did not have the option to come out publicly criticizing Google, but you were able to. Google is in the position of target of criticism lately just as Microsoft and many other large companies are, however by referring to your conversation with your friend in the same context, you lend credibility to the notion that perhaps some of the criticism was his.

</comment></comment></comment><comment><USER14> Y U PUT NO SHOES? Really there are shoes as comfortable as those sandals...</comment>