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It's amazing to hear these stories, and studios keep buying the same brand. Talk about loyalty.
Loyalty is not the word I would use. Monopoly is a better word coupled to an apparent unwillingness or inability to use a commercial raw materials glass, or to make their own. There are options but the options require actual work on the part of the studio. Necessity may well become the mother of invention again.
It reminds me of when Karl Platt suggested to me that glassworkers would rather their color came out of toothpaste like tubes. Rods are pretty close to that. Frit certainly makes for color confetti.
I think that Spruce Pine should perhaps consider making a batch glass that melts at substantially lower temperatures. It wouldn't be hard. It just might not be as durable but that's the case with the low melt cullets now.
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Monopoly is correct. Studio space, time, and fear of change are the only reasons that I am "brand" loyal.
I'm curious about the issue of low temp melting glass and durability. What would you think about the Glasma 705 then?
I have no idea about glasma 705. what I think right now is that multiple sources of alkaline fluxes are really important. I don't think the formula Nick Labino supplied for alumina is necessarily true if you use multiple alkalines. I think the stabilizers can go way higher than you might expect and that silica can plunge. Glass can invert.
That's very different thinking but the ancient stuff is really still around. Enamels have silica contents below 52%. Phosphates can replace lead in the right environments, so can strontium. Titanium can make enamels way denser than arsenic can and they'll be non toxic.
How's that?
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
"Spectrum Premium 2.0 Nuggets are clear glass pillows specifically designed for Glass Blowing. The Premium 2.0 formula has replaced the original Premium Nuggets product to provide a lower expansion than the original version -- bringing 2.0 even closer to popular blowing colors than the original version. "
This is from OCR's website. Does this mean they will no longer be making the regular nuggets?
It means that Spectrum Premium nuggets were a failure and they are to be discontinued and replaced with Spectrum 2.0, a clone of SP87. I don't think Spectrum Nuggets will get replaced since they are the basis for System96, the full color pallet from Uroboros. The problem is that currently there are surprises in every bag of nuggets.
Collect them all and impress your friends!
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
I've never received a reply (email) from Spectrum. I'm still washing the cullet and still finding stuff but not near as much as we delve into our recent one ton order. We will be shutting down at the end of June and changing out our crucible over the summer. Not sure if I want this order of cullet in the new crucible when we go hot again in the fall.......
Now y'all have got me paranoid...I just checked the new bags of Spectrum 2.0 that I got in yesterday. They ship one ton on each pallet. I ordered 2.5 tons. They stacked 10 bags on top of each wrapped pallet. The dates on the wrapped pallet are 3/10/15 D. The dates on the 10 bags wrapped to the top of each pallet was 3/14/15 which was crossed out and 6/28/13 F was written on each...yes, 13...I'm a little wary to use those bags. Wasn't there some changes done to their batch around then????
Mark , my opinion is that the issues are refractory. Those stones aren't batch. Changing a batch formula has potential consequences that are hard to think on. I really know that more than most.
The bottom line is that occasionally you can feel really vulnerable for using something convenient..It makes you not know what to do when convenience becomes untenable.
I can't tell you that making your own glass is easy because it isn't. I too make mistakes or get strange mine runs and have to constantly adjust. Most people just don't want to think about that. I threw out a failed color melt yesterday. I lost two days to my own stupidity. There really aren't any guarantees. I would still tell you to make your own glass after forty whatever years. If you want to go there, call me and I'll help you do it.
Spruce Pine 87 is slow, I'll give you that but I'll tell you the fable of the tortoise and the hare whenever you like. It's just hard to embrace.
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Thank you for your offer Pete, but making my own batch is not something that I feel comfortable with right now. The "boutique" cullet is where I went after SP batch introduced their version. When the "tortoise" was unable to produce their product, I was forced to go with the "hare". I lost confidence that SP could keep producing a reliable product. I am not pleased that the only choice right now is Spectrum. I wish that SP would get all of their problems fixed so that we have a choice......that being said, why are my bags marked with a '13 date???? <rhetorical> I have Jim at East Bay working on it. I trust what he tells me...
This is the sort of thing you never want to see. I also think it will pass and everyone will breathe a big sigh of relief and look over thier shoulders.
The cullet users went through this back in 1974 when Keystone cullet turned to shit virtually overnight and the community at the time thought it was a godsend. The lovechild was SP87. I don't think you're going to see more SP87 cullet. That leaves you with... what? I think you really have to figure out where you go next.
Starting a cullet company is not something I'm willing to do. It would be a major out lay for what?- a virtual complaint machine from people who don't know how to make a basic clear. Look at the abuse heaped on Spruce Pine over the decades who think glass comes out of a magic fountain. I will not spend the last ten productive years of my life making cullet for this group. Necessity may yet spawn another energetic supplier like Seattle Batch and that was just so much fun. Opportunity abounds.
I can make a lot of strange shit and do regularly. I've melted every potential I can imagine and I'm still amazed in the latter part of my life as I watch it drip on the floor, mesmerized. This stuff is worth an effort.
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Any estimates on the size of the art glass industry in America, in terms of pounds per year of clear melted?
It's like Cracker Jack - a surprise in every bag! I"n now tossing about 1/4 of a 50 lb. bag because of black specks, stones or scum.....
If the total market was 3 million lb. that would only be $3,000,000 @ $1/lb. The expense and problems that one would get from going into this venture I don't think would be justified for most, especially a larger company. The expenditures and production problems really don't warrant most companies to enter this market. Labor, materials, packaging, fuel costs, quality control, and everything else that goes with this make it a market that few would consider to be a big profit business and worthy of a major investment. Until the costs of cullet rise, getting fresh cullet that is problem free may be a real trick. It will remain a "boutique" business model and probably problematic. Producing and shipping 10,000 lb. per day is no easy task.
I have actually never not melted glass from some kind of batch. And yet, I am considering it now. I was at Penland in 1985 when Spruce Pine first tried batch pellets and we tested them. They were actually dangerous and we had to prevent students from charging the furnace until we could get loose batch again. Since then they have tried some kind of semi pelletized batch and it has not been explosive, but I do not know how it has been for dust.
I really do not want to handle batch any more, so I am trying SP plug nuggets when I start up again in July or so. I have about a years worth and I hope it is clean or there would be some serious decision making ahead.
I already miss the Philips pellets. They were not entirely without problems of moisture absorption and popcorn behavior. And sometimes there would be very large chunks of batch that seemed to come at the same time as snow flakes in the melt. I sorted them out and smashed them with a hammer and the problem went away, but what a pain.
There is no "magic fountain" for sure. I have not built a batching facility into this shop and never will, so I am now dependent on some supplier to give a good product. I can still get good batch, but storing any reasonable amount for a shipment is not easy. It would mean taking every bag and putting a plastic trash bag around it taped closed, to prevent water absorption.
Yesterday was the very last day of blowing Philips 4096. Now off for a while.
Aloha, Hugh
The initial problem with SP popping was essentially the same one you had with Philipps- Chemically bound water from any hydrate in the glass batch. The water evaporates rapidly, not unlike an explosion. That necessitates using calcined compounds. In other words, you can't use Lime Hydrate (Ca OH2), instead you have to use calcium carb ( CaCO3). The CO3 weighs a lot more to get to CaO and is volatilized at a very different rate, so then people complain about how much glass they lose on melting. It does add up. At the same time people want it pelletized. So, no potassium hydroxide, no alumina hydrate, lots of issues trying to dumb down making clear glass. Further, there are light metals which don't want to be pelletized- like potassium. They turn into bricks. Pelletizing is somewhat limiting. Since I really value potassium in my glass, I don't use things like SP87. GLASMA Doe a much better job of mixing but I really don't know about pellets there.
If as Tom suggests, the biz is worth 3 million dollars per year, that's really not much if you look at the headaches caused by complaints from inexperienced glassworkers- and there are a ton of them, Federal oversight of dust and toxins, production problems from underpaid or inexperienced employees plus rising material costs. It's hard to see wanting to do that as your legacy. When Seattle batch was having cullet made and shipped in container loads, I recall it costing about 50 cents a pound FOB Seattle. That told me that giving shipping costs and profit, the manufacturers couldn't be getting more that 8-10 cents a lb and there is no margin there for quality control to exist and it didn't. It was unreliable. End of Venture. In reality, Bullseye does a far better job of this but they refuse to make a 96 glass.
While you may not want to make your own glass, it may not be such a simple declarative decision if you want to blow glass. Working in the Islands is a humidity nightmare and I remember it from the time in Manoa. Here, I put my potash in Zip lok bags as soon as it arrives. That's a lot of material to transfer five lbs at a time.
I think at this point that some intrepid soul importing Crystallica from Peter Kuchinke in Germany is a reasonable solution but it will take warehousing and other charming things.
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
I realize the humidity is high there, but you get a lot of sunshine. Would is be feasible to build a solar heated batch storage shed, that cooks the moisture out of the batch? Or a sealed shed with a dehumidifier?
Dehumidifying cost the same as air conditioning. I considered it briefly here. It's another major expense on top of shipping stuff to the land of $5.00 per gallon propane. While it may be sunny in parts of the Islands, there are parts that get 400 inches of rain a year. Walk 400 feet and the weather is totally different.
So, Here's a Mark Peiser story about Cullet:
Way back when we were selectively using Keystone cullet which cost a ripping .02 cents a pound, Penland School tried and loved it. This was at the precise moment that Keystone decided that clear was clear and they would throw anything into the mix after this shipment as long as it was clear. Fritz ordered 20 tons of the clear and it came to Mark's place when he was not there in a truck- a belly dump and they dumped it right next to his house where it sat forever.
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
[quote=Pete VanderLaan;124051]
Dehumidifying cost the same as air conditioning.
If the shed is sealed relatively well the dehumidifier wouldn't run very often. An A/C runs a lot when the temp gets too high. A dehumidifier only runs when the RH gets too high. Keeping the room air dry is much easier than keeping it cool, if it's sealed.
Ask me in a year what I think!
Aloha, Hugh
I view that as very positive thinking Hugh. You can think a year ahead... Yow, and at our age.
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
Here's today's winner:
Ooooooh. That's a good one!
That must be a ten carat stone! Did you buy this direct from Spectrum, or through Olympic. I would be making a lot of noise about it. ( I am anyway).
Go give free samples to people at the GAS conference in front of either the Olympic or Spectrum booth or at least tell them that's your current plan. I'd wager you get new cullet.
Where are we going and why am I in this basket?
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Today I am sharing a album I created using Graphic 45 Safari Adventure collection
Album is a double side 5 page 8x8 album with a leather belt closure, had lots of room
for photo's with flip pages and pockets. All pages are held together with magnets
which allows the page to be secure when closed
Inside cover, with a mini book for photos and journaling
fits in the pocket
The right side flips opens to a great full page for photos
The first page holds three flip pages, first one has a pocket to hold
a tag for journaling, the top has an flip page that opens to hold two
3x4 photos
Flip the page over where there is a corner pocket to hold photo
with tag for journaling. Left side is a great area for multiple photos
Flip open to two large landscape to hold many photos
2nd page has an area to hold a 4x6 photo. Open to
find top flips up and bottom flips down giving
three good size areas for multiple photos or journaling
3rd page hold four flip pages that will hold more photos and area for journaling
Top flip has a chipboard piece for journaling
Inside of flip page opens with fussy cut parrots to hold your photos by slipping
in to open area
4th page has 3 flip pages with tags and pockets
5th page holds two small flip pages, 1 larger page
with pocket and tag
Opens to two full pages with a pocket to hold photos
6th page has an area for a 4x6 photo
Opens to two large pages for photos and a third with
pocket to hold photos
7th page has a belly ban that holds photo tags
with a magnetic holder at the bottom
Opens to a large page that will hold multiple photos
and a side page with pocket
8th page 4 page that flip open for many photos
and journaling
Inside of one of the side pages has a pocket that will hold
lots of photos
9th page has three flip out pages and a hidden
pocket to hold a tag
10th page has 4 flip pages
With a side pocket to hold additional photos and journal notes
Back inside cover
has 3 flip pages with pockets to hold tags
Inside page has a roomy size pocket to hold
photo mats and pictures
Thanks for visiting!!{Crafty Hugs} Jackie


text:
The Dow Jones industrial average and Standard & Poor's 500 index both closed at 2016 highs Tuesday after Federal Reserve Chair Janet Yellen pulled stocks out of an early slump
U.S. stocks gave up early gains Thursday as investors digested an array of fresh stimulus measures from the European Central Bank designed to combat weak growth and low inflation but
Wall Street appears to have regained its mojo, with stocks in one month going from the brink of a bear market to their highest point this year. But that's not
Shares of Allergan (AGN), the pending merger partner of U.S. pharmaceutical giant Pfizer, rose Monday after the Ireland-based company reported fourth-quarter earnings that topped Wall Street forecasts. The company's stock
It's no surprise energy stocks are in a world of hurt — that's what happens when oil is this cheap. But seeing bank stocks fall apart is the latest chapter
Federal Reserve Chair Janet Yellen signaled this past week the central bank will be reluctant to raise interest rates next month if global economic troubles and the punishing slide in
Volatility continues to rule on Wall Street as stocks bounce around in choppy trading Tuesday amid oil weakness and global stock turmoil that saw Japanese shares fall more than 5%
Stocks dove sharply into negative territory after the Federal Reserve signaled Wednesday that it has not ruled out another interest rate hike at its March meeting despite noting that it
A record number of punishments were levied against bad brokers in 2015 by the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority (Finra), the
One month ago, Goldman Sachs added Apple shares to its "conviction buy" list, its highest rating for any stock. So
U.S. stocks cratered in their worst day in months as investors are starting to realize global growth is likely to
Smartphone maker BlackBerry reported third-quarter earnings Friday. BlackBerry. Shares jumped in early trading after the company beat estimates on third
Global stocks were mixed Monday as Wall Street looked ahead to a Federal Reserve decision this week that could see
Apple (AAPL) shares are falling hard yet again Monday – dipping below $110 for the first time since October –
Atlassian. Shares are up nearly 1% in morning trading, a quieter start compared to its Thursday debut, where the company's
Struggling Web media company Yahoo has decided to forego its spin-off of its $30 billion-plus stake in Chinese e-tailing giant
There is a lot of tension on Wall Street. The stock market has stalled near record highs. And the Federal
Talk of tighter gun control rules is giving a boost to gun stocks. Following the recent spate of mass shootings
China's main stock market index fell more than 5% on Friday after two securities firms said they are under investigation
The biggest marriage in the drug industry's history hasn't provided the type of booster shot to shares of deal participants


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Welcome to Little Hearts, Inc.
Little Hearts, Inc. is a national organization providing support, education, resources, networking, and hope to families affected by congenital heart defects. Membership consists of families nationwide who have or are expecting a child with a congenital heart defect.
Our mission is to offer support, education, and hope to families affected by congenital heart defects through our support services, and to promote public awareness for this #1 birth defect. Read More ›
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Multiple methods can safely help babies get to sleep, study shows
Australian researchers, undertaking a five-year follow-up on the effects of infant sleep training on children and parents, examined the after-effects of two common methods: "controlled comforting," in which parents respond to their infant's cry at increasing time intervals to facilitate self-settling; and "camping out," in which parents sit with the child as he or she independently learns to fall asleep, slowing removing their presence from the room.
Improvements to children's and mothers' sleep, along with mothers' mental health, were still apparent as late as age 2 but faded by age 6.
"This helps parents make their own informed decisions about how to manage their baby's sleep," said study author Anna Price, a postdoctoral research fellow at Murdoch Childrens Research Institute at the Royal Children's Hospital in Parkville. "Based on earlier studies, we anticipated there would be no long-term negative effects but wanted to know whether the benefits to children's sleep and mothers' mental health extended past two years."
The study is published online Sept. 10 in advance of the October print issue of the journal Pediatrics.
Sleep problems, reported by about 45 percent of parents in the second half of their baby's first year, are a major risk factor for maternal depression and a common and costly driver of health care visits during infancy, according to the research.
Price and her team tracked 225 children from age 7 months—when their parents first reported sleep problems—to age 6 years. Participants were randomly placed into two groups, with one offered guidance on the "controlled comforting" and "camping out" sleep techniques at universal health care visits and the other group offered no training. (Those parents could, however, seek out sleep advice at independently run early- parenting centers.)
At the end of the study, no differences were observed in either set of families for any measure, including children's emotional and behavioral health, sleep habits and stress levels, parent-child closeness and parental depression or anxiety.
Jodi Mindell, associate director of the Sleep Center at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, said this is one of the first studies to show that there's no long-term, negative outcome to sleep training.
"One of the biggest concerns parents have when they consider doing sleep training is, 'Is it going to psychologically harm my child, or is it going to affect attachment?'" said Mindell.
Mindell, also a spokesperson for the American Academy of Sleep Medicine, noted that many websites aimed at parents offer frightening perspectives on the ramifications of sleep training that aren't at all based on scientific evidence.
"This study helps support parents to be able to take that step and do sleep training without worrying," she added. "All the interventions are different dimensions on a theme. It's all about taking steps, whether a leap or a tiny baby step ... to get to the magic moment of your child falling asleep in their own bed."
Explore further
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Teacher resources and professional development across the curriculum
Teacher professional development and classroom resources across the curriculum
Observing Student Connections
|Introduction | Investigating Functions | Problem Reflection #1 | Connecting to Logarithms | Problem Reflection #2 | Classroom Practice | Observe a Classroom | Your Journal
Here is how the teacher set up the task: "Conduct a thorough exploration of the equation y = 2x - x - 3. Then prepare a mathematical report of your findings that demonstrates your grasp of mathematics."
Here is how one student responded:
Ramon: To think about y = 2x - x - 3, I started by using my calculator to make a table of values for when x is positive, 0, and negative. I had to switch to a graph to find y for x = -100 and x = 100 because I got an error on my calculator. First, here's a table that I made after I tried x = -100:
Ramon: When I checked x = -100, I noticed that the point is (-100, 97). But that means that 97 = 2(-100) - (-100) - 3 = 2(-100) + 97. So, I discovered that 2(-100) = 0.
Please take a moment to review Ramon's work. Did you notice that his misconception may be the result of rounding? His calculator is limited to 14 significant digits.
The next day, after Ramon excitedly pointed out his "discovery," Mr. Costa suggested that the class explore Ramon's conjecture. Mr. Costa also posed this question: "If Ramon's conjecture is true, at what value of x does 2x begin to equal 0?"
Celia graphed the equation on the class computer and traced the graph until she found that at (-27.5, 24.50000000527), y did not equal x - 3, or "3 less than x." A few students also found the intersection of the curve with x = -100 and changed the window on their calculators to a range very close to Celia's value.
Mr. Costa then led a discussion that helped students realize the limitations in the number of significant digits used and displayed in various graphing technologies. The teacher took the opportunity to review the connection between scientific notation and e notation on the calculator screen, explaining that "e" did not stand for "error" but rather "exponent," with an implied base of 10.
The students discussed the question of when so many significant digits might be necessary. Two examples they thought of were scientists working with a microscope to measure parts of a cell, and astronomers who generally use very large numbers.
As the discussion progressed, Carrie noted that the graph seemed linear in the second quadrant. Several students offered reasons why that would not be true. Ramon said that "linear" implies a constant slope, a constant change in y per one unit change in x. Some students then checked the slope between two points by evaluating x = -4, x = -5, and x = -6, and found that at least that portion of the graph was not linear.
Jim stated, simply, "There is a variable as an exponent in the equation y = 2x - x - 3; it doesn't fit the form of a linear function. It seems like it would be doubling, not growing at a constant rate, because of that x in 2x." Then Jim zoomed in on the range around x = -5 and showed that the differences in y for successive whole number values of x were not linear.
As the discussion began to wind down, Ramon suddenly declared, in great excitement, "I know why it seems linear in the second quadrant! It looks like a graph of y = -x - 3 after about x equals -10 because the '2 to the x power' part gets tinier and tinier. There are too many zeros in the decimal to make a difference on the graph."
Mr. Costa reminded the students to also think about the portion of the graph in the first quadrant. Students shared their observations about the rapid growth rate of y, and discussed limits and positive infinity. The students then summarized their understanding in their project papers. One student even built on the discussion of a limit to reconsider the value of 2x in the second quadrant, suggesting that it gets "closer and closer to 0 as x gets more negative"
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"Leaving her alone on the road is same as murder."
She stayed because at that point, the group were still following her orders, after murdering a valuable group member, she realized they're not gong to listen to her anymore. I get she went through a lot but she's not the only one. I wouldn't help people that killed my dad but I certainly wouldn't help a bitch that killed a caring friend or change my opinion about her if she has a chance to redeem herself or even give her that opportunity. She made her bed now she can lay on it, if she wanted kill someone, kill Kenny or Lee, they're the ones that hurt you and took your dad away, the fact that she killed Carley/Doug just shows how much of a horrible person she is. Clem doesn't need to kill her but don't give her satisfaction that you can make up for the innocent life you took away for no reason but instead, reveal to your new group and hers of what backstabbing murderous witch she is and give her a hard time, if Lilly reacts angrily then that means she feels she's done nothing wrong which is messed up. I'm sure her new group(Excluding Rebecca) will understand her hate towards Lilly.
You're missing the point by far. I said if she was a murderous coward, or desperate, she could've easily ran away and at least tried… more
There's plenty. Her dad was murdered in front of her, by one of their own, someone ELSE in the group was now untrustworthy because they were giving supplies to their enemies and Kenny just had to harass and provoke her daily when if he really wanted to, he could get up off his ass and leave in the RV. I'm a Kenny fan so don't assume this is dislike for the character. Then they all lose their home because of the traitor she suspects is Ben, the one place they'd found sanctuary in and dedicated themselves to. On top of her trauma and mental state after her dad I can't even imagine what she must've felt like.
AC Spoilers
You're right about Altair but even so, to Malik that could've been just details. He could've continued to despise Altair for it much like Abaas loathed him for reasons not even comparable. Malik showed restraint though and even wisdom by forgiving him when many others wouldn't. The situations are different but to most families of someone killed accidentally or not by a "friend" they wouldn't forgive either way.
My point is Carley was clearly murder, to me Doug's wasn't, it was accidental murder and the difference in facial reactions the animators gave to Lilly shows it
If she was so desperate to get away than leave on foot, why punish the people she seemingly cares about. Whether she was desperate o… more
I hated what she said about Rick in S2but that was one scene and she clearly regrets it. You find it hard to let things go it seems. This is funny: You say Rick clearly felt bad about what he did and GIVEN TIME you saw him express it. With Lilly, you decide that she doesn't deserve said scene to show she's at all remorseful. Most of what you're sayingseems harsh to me. Yes this group was horrified at the St Johns,and this group changes. Kenny becomes increasingly self serving, Lilly becomes paranoid and depressed, Doug becomes depressed. Lilly could've ran away on foot but people don't exactly think straight when they're scared likethat. Ultimately this seems completely biased to any form of redemption for a character who made a mistake while not mentally stable and who can vary reactionwise. I've seen fans forgive Merle for the 15 people he murdered, yet Lilly? Nope
No matter how much they were changing, they do have a line not to cross. I was not fond of Carol in Season 1, Season 2 I lost it wit… more
All of this is your opinion. You don't know what she felt that can't be gathered from facial animations because this isn't a multiple POV story. Once again I'm not saying you should Lilly in any way. I'm saying being biased toward "I will shoot her in the face without mercy if she comes back before even seeing if she's changed and making my character a murderer" Doug was an accident, you seem to forget that
She stayed because at that point, the group were still following her orders, after murdering a valuable group member, she realized t… more
So that justifies killing someone that never did anything to you? You're a Kenny fan then why is that he never killed anyone that gave him attitude after his families death and even after finding out it was Ben? Lee had to put an axe in his brothers head after finding out his parents are dead then shortly after a guy tried to kill him. Point is, there are characters that have gone through worse than her but if they can refrain themselves from doing the things that she did then what's Lilly excuse other than being a piece of shit?
Assassins Creed Spoiler
Malik was there, he knew what happened and how it led to it. He and Altair fight for the same cause and Altair made no excuses like saying "he needed to die as it was his time". Would you Malik forgiving Robert De Sable, the man that killed his brother? Would families forgive a bully that killed their loved one because they stood up for themselves? Never in a million years.
Why do you ignore of what lead to Doug's death, she tried to kill Ben. Whether she killed the wrong person or not, in both situations, her intention was to murder.
There's plenty. Her dad was murdered in front of her, by one of their own, someone ELSE in the group was now untrustworthy because t… more
Until she says she regrets it, I won't buy it. You know what, I recommend you read the issue again because it seems you got your details mixed up. I know Rick felt bad about it because he showed it right before he cut off her arm, like I said, he was in tears before he amputated her, right there at that moment he showed it, no way was that an action of a ruthless man, Lilly on the other handy didn't and again, the two situations are way different, Rick had a good reason and felt sad, Lilly had no reason and felt nothing. I highly doubt that this group changed after one week, you ask for their opinions on what to do with Lilly and they'll say leave her, nothing about killing. She didn't look scared, how do you know she was, you say I assume but you're assuming she was. A mistake? She murdered an innocent kind hearted person for nothing then leaves people to die and she knew was she was doing, a mistake is when I ask for a Coke and I get a Pepsi. Merle Dixon's a piece of shit and a criminal before the Apocalypse, he never hid this personality and showed that he cares about no one but his brother, Lilly pretended to care about the group only to murder one of them and leave the rest to die.
I hated what she said about Rick in S2but that was one scene and she clearly regrets it. You find it hard to let things go it seems.… more
So what you're saying is that facial expressions don't show the real emotion but that debunks your opinion that she was shocked when she shot Doug because she had the reaction of it. When Lee smiled when he first saw Clementine, does that mean he was happy? When Kenny was raging to beat up Ben when he found out he was the cause of his family's demise, was he angry? Of course they were, her facial expression tells you everything that she felt. I get that you don't want to make Clem a killer but come on, do you want to make her weak? I'm sure you want your Clem to put Lilly in her place, not take any shit from her and treat her like scum. I know Doug's death was an accident but you've seem to forget that she tried to murder Ben who at that point was innocent until proven guilty.
All of this is your opinion. You don't know what she felt that can't be gathered from facial animations because this isn't a multipl… more
Different people are affected differently. Everyone has their breaking point when they just flip. Lee's brother was turned and Lee didn't witness it, Kenny's family weren't technically Ben's fault yet he still lunges at Ben. Who knows what he would've done to him if he didn't know the others would keep them separated, The Malik forgiving Robert idea doesn't make sense because Robert was already the enemy and Malik wasn't ever with the Templars. Most families wouldn't give a rat's ass if the Altair getting their son or brother killed was an accident. They'd hate him anyway. It's hard to separate it from murder when they know who is to blame. I don't even ignore that Lilly wanted to kill Ben, it was wrong but again with the paranoia and stress she wasn't herself. The best idea would've been to disarm her and keep her somewhere safe in the RV until she was calm again
So that justifies killing someone that never did anything to you? You're a Kenny fan then why is that he never killed anyone that ga… more
Or until her actions show it. I'd rather show than tell. You keep saying she felt nothing yet you ignore the two different facial expressions and reactions the animators give her. This group changed lots, you could tell, Ep3 everyone is depressed, bandit raids made an impact on their personalities. It's obvious she's scared. Kenny or Lee saying "We'll figure out what to do with her" would be more than enough to convince most to escape asap. Your streamlining of mistakes doesn't help this. ANYTHING can be a mistake. Merle didn't even kill one person before the apocalypse, he admits it to Michonne. Lilly didn't "pretend" to care. People can break and do things they'd never do in other circumstances. You discount all her good actions because many only count if you showed kindness to her first. So? That doesn't make them unworthy actions. It's a choice based game. You weren't with her, that's alright. But it doesn't discredit the way she acts in other playthroughs
Until she says she regrets it, I won't buy it. You know what, I recommend you read the issue again because it seems you got your det… more
I said the only thing we can go on isher facial expressions. Aka two vastly different ones depending on Carley and Doug. I don't want my Clem to kill anyone but if she must then yes, like Winston, My point is the idea of just saying "Let's kill Lilly before she can even say a WORD that could show she's changed" That would be unjust and wrong. If she tries to kill someone for no reason again then yes, bullet to the face. I'd hear her out though, two years is more than enough time foranyone to be different. Her murdering anyone in Ep3 was wrong, Carley, Doug or Ben agree. I don't like who she became. I'm saying she could've changed after two years is all
So what you're saying is that facial expressions don't show the real emotion but that debunks your opinion that she was shocked when… more
Facial Expression is more than enough to show how she felt about the situation but the main thing is that she pulled out the gun with the intention of killing someone. What do you want to hear out of her? What excuse would she have to kill a kind a person or attempt to kill a frightened teenager, both of whom never did anything to you, oh her daddy died as if she's the only person to lose someone. I'm saying Clem should just treat her like dirt, doesn't have to kill her, hear her out but not be sympathetic & understanding or give her any chance at redemption, though it'd be out of character for Lilly to change into Mother Theresa after two years considering she was not nice to begin with.
I said the only thing we can go on isher facial expressions. Aka two vastly different ones depending on Carley and Doug. I don't wan… more
And how did she show it? exactly. OK, you say "everyone" is depressed and the bandit raid affected them but then you single out Lilly as a special case, you're saying I'm wrong when I say she felt nothing due to facial reactions yet you're saying she was scared when she showed no sign of it? If they wanted to kill her, they would've done so right there if they were as you say were changed people, "We'll figure out what to do with her" could mean anything and only Lee said that and who would execute her?
How is it that you say she made a mistake when she knows she didn't make a mistake? And by your logic, I can go out, shoot someone that looks at me funny, say that people kill people everyday so why am I being punished and then tell his family "he asked for it" after I escape justice because after all, I did make a MISTAKE, Negan and The Governor made tons of MISTAKES, Crawford made a lot of MISTAKES, Thomas Richards was making MISTAKES before the apocalypse began.
Merle Dixon's a piece of shit to begin with, a drug using criminal and a convict, besides, just because he did it doesn't make it right for others to follow in his footsteps. I'll say this again, anybody that can leave people she supposedly cares about to die shows she never cared at all. You're basing her care on hair clips she didn't need.
People can break and do things they'd never do in other circumstances. You discount all her good actions because many only count if you showed kindness to her first. So? That doesn't make them unworthy actions. It's a choice based game. You weren't with her, that's alright. But it doesn't discredit the way she acts in other playthroughs
So let's excuse her backstabbing, her murder, her loud mouth rants, her not giving a shit about you being zombie food because her dad didn't like you all because she broke and gave a little girl hair clips she didn't need because I'm sure she was like this in all playthroughs which isn't affected by the choices you make.
Or until her actions show it. I'd rather show than tell. You keep saying she felt nothing yet you ignore the two different facial ex… more
I've seen little kids handle it better, you're telling me a grown woman like Lilly couldn't tell herself that shooting someone who hasn't done anything to you is a bad thing. Different people are affected differently? Are you going to apply the same thing with The Governor? because after all, he wasn't the same Governor as he was in the novel. Lee didn't witness his brothers reanimation but he still had to axe him more than once. So what you're saying that it's OK for Lilly to kill Ben because she was paranoid & stressed but it aint OK for Kenny to beat the shit out of him for causing his families demise? You're saying it was not Ben's fault but you are saying it was his fault the Motel was lost? even though the bandits were already aware of it.
Assassins Creed Revelations spoiler
You're right, most families would hate Altair but are they gonna apply the same hate they have for him on Abbas & Swami who both fight for the same cause as Malik yet betrayed and murdered him and didn't give a rats ass? No, they would kill them if the opportunity ever arised. It's hard to separate murder and indirect cause? No it's not, if Malik can separate the two, surely his family can. What is Malik's family gonna say to Abbas? "It's OK my son, if we can forgive Altair for accidentally getting my youngest son killed, we can forgive you for purposely murdering my eldest son".
The best idea would've been to disarm her and keep her somewhere safe in the RV until she was calm again
That happened in the game, how did that work out again? Oh that's right, she pulled a Grand Theft Auto on the RV and leaves you to die. Still think that's a best idea?
Different people are affected differently. Everyone has their breaking point when they just flip. Lee's brother was turned and Lee d… more
Yes different people are affected differently by different things. No I'm actually not condoning what Lilly did so again, don't act likethat. Although if you're actually saying kids wouldn't use guns, that's funny. I'm not saying Kenny shouldn't hate Ben for what he did, I'm saying he could've killed Ben in a fit of rage for all we know, same as Lilly, BOTH BAD. I'm capitalising so you don't miss the key points here.
I didn't say every family would be unable to separate purposeful and accidental, once again you assume. I'm saying many people wouldn't give a rat's ass if it was purposeful or accidental, I've seen it. Again, I said disarm her before anyone was shot and keep guard over her. Read thoroughly
I've seen little kids handle it better, you're telling me a grown woman like Lilly couldn't tell herself that shooting someone who h… more
Special case? I didn't say it. Watch both playththroughs and tell me her facial reaction right after shooting Carley and Doug are the same. You think the animators were just like
Animator 1: "Alright, let's give Lilly two very different facial reactions, one for each shooting""
Animator 2: "That's a good idea. This would show she reacts and feels differently determinant right?"
Animator 1: "Nah. I just feel like throwing in two different animation sets."
Also yes, if they said they'd "Figure out what to do with me" I'd be nervous. If you're saying you wouldn't be, you're kidding yourself. AGAIN, I'm actually not saying every murder is justifiable. I'm not saying "Oh Lilly let's be besties 4evar and forget your crime" I'm saying in the world they live in, she made a terrible mistake. I want her to be haunted because of it and hopefully changed, determinant. You're also assuming she didn't leave in a spur of the moment thing and regret it.
Hair clips? Gosh, Clem didn't need those hairclips. Exactly. Lilly gave them to her out of kindness, not because it was required.
Loud mouthed rants can be directed at any character besides Clem and a few other characters. They all shouted and screamed, it's the apocalypse. She does give a shit if you're not an ass to her, she even sides with Lee in Ep3 a fair bit at the Motor Inn. Side not, yes she was scared, you can hear it in her voice when she's being left behind on the road. Her voice being incredibly angry beforehand also doesn't mean she was never nervous, people shout when they're nervous
And how did she show it? exactly. OK, you say "everyone" is depressed and the bandit raid affected them but then you single out Lill… more
I didn't say I want to her her out for shooting them two years ago. I said I'd like to hear her out for who she is now. Here's something, Mother Theresa? I neversaid she'd be a heroic wonderwoman character with no flaws. I said she could've changed, that's all. Out of character for you but you never tried to get along with her it seems so that's alright. Another point, the other character's families and friends were killed by walkers or missing. Lilly's dad was murdered by Kenny and determinant Lee right in front of her, two people she trusted and is forced to see every day if she wants to stay in the Motor Inn, forced to ration things for. It's quite sad you'd be against any redemption for her. If she were to come back with a group of good friends, or even more, you'd be ready to shoot her? Or if she were to save Clem or another group member, or you can see she's haunted by what she'sdone two years ago, you'dtreat her likecrap anyway right?
Facial Expression is more than enough to show how she felt about the situation but the main thing is that she pulled out the gun wit… more
So you wouldn't tell her new friends or your new friends about the sinister act she pulled two years previously? You aren't saying she's a cold hearted bitch either, just a lost caring woman. Believe it or not, I did get along with Lilly but the moment she shot Carley, I paused the game and started Episode 3 all over again to see if I can save her, after countless choices, I came to learn she dies no matter what and out of curiosity I wanted to see what would happen if I take her with me in the RV, after 4 times of her robbing the RV and leaving me for dead is when I started the whole thing all over again from Episode 1 where I was Pro Kenny and was a jerk to Lilly all the way because I came to learn that just like her dad, she's an evil selfish bitch. I've been on both sides and explored all options, they all came down to the same result, when I was getting along with her, I was tempted to click on some options where you give her attitude but I just wanted her to keep her dad off my back(In which she wasn't doing), overall she frustrated me with her bitchy attitude even when I was being nice to her. OK, her dad was killed by Kenny/Lee but why even attack or hurt Carley? This is what most of us Lilly haters don't get, if she attempted to kill Kenny, we would understand but she purposely killed the kindest member in the group just because she had a grudge for some unknown reason, It's shocking how you think she deserves to redeem herself after that horrific incident.
If she were to come back with a group of good friends, or even more, you'd be ready to shoot her?
Yes I would. Forget that you are Clementine for a second, don't tell me you wouldn't if someone like that killed a friend of yours?
Or if she were to save Clem or another group member,
Unlikely but if she does, for that I'll spare her life but I'd continue to treat her like garbage that she is.
or you can see she's haunted by what she'sdone two years ago, you'dtreat her likecrap anyway right?
Oh the poor thing is haunted and is having nightmares unlike her victim who is rotting on the road and is dinner for maggots that are currently chewing on her lifeless corpse who was murdered in cold blood by her for peanuts and will never experience life. You act like her being haunted makes it OK to go easy on her., that's like Rick Grimes & Maggie Greene going easy on The Governor & Negan because they're haunted by what they've done. A friend of yours who saved you countless times was murdered by her for nothing, you couldn't save your friend but the least you can do is make the murderer pay by either killing her or if you want to be humane, make sure she never forgets and be an ass to her always, going easy on her and giving her a chance at redemption for someone like Lilly is a shitty way of repaying your friend for all they've done to help you.
I didn't say I want to her her out for shooting them two years ago. I said I'd like to hear her out for who she is now. Here's somet… more
You were saying everyone was feeling the same, they were all depressed yet somehow Lilly thought it was a good idea to commit a monstrous act? That's why I said Special Case. I agreed that she did look shocked in Doug's version but she still had THE INTENTION TO KILL.
Let's see, a history teacher and the pringles guy want to execute me, pringles guy could hardly kill a unconscious man never mind a conscious person and the history teacher that didn't retaliate when a cold hearted prick tried to murder him and you'd think these guys would execute you when they haven't done so already? Not once did she even ask "What are you gonna do with me?" so there goes her being nervous. And you're still saying it's a mistake? She pulled out a gun, pointed at someone then killed them and was not sorry, where's the mistake in that? She murdered an innocent person just like The Governor, The Saviors, The Hunters, The St Johns, The Stranger, The Marauders and The Bandits murdered innocent people, do you think they're haunted or lose any sleep for what they've done? because like Lilly, they don't show any sign of remorse.
She left when the chance came. Lilly can leave Clementine to die but she cares about her through the affection of hair clips? That "act of kindness" means nothing when you have the heart to pull a stunt like that, remember that lie she told Lee about getting Clem and coming with her, well that was BS, turns out it was only a trick, so much for caring. The only person that yelled back at Lilly is Kenny, the rest of the group were calm with her and all she does is yell. Whether you're an ass to her or not, she didn't give a shit about you, still expects you to do things for her dad even after she knew what he tried to you. Yeah I can tell the scared notion and nervousness in her voice when she's stealing the RV. Of course she would be scared when you leave her behind, she's a coward that think she's a badass, shouting, threatening and waving a gun around and shooting people when their backs are turned then let's see how she does alone.
Special case? I didn't say it. Watch both playththroughs and tell me her facial reaction right after shooting Carley and Doug are th… more
And it's what they do afterwards that defines them, you bring up her dads death as an excuse, how far can grief go before you cross the line? She witnessed her dad get murdered in her eyes so what does she do, do the same thing Kenny did to her dad but without a reason. I know you're not condoning what she did but you are making her out to be this caring person that made a "simple mistake" in purposely murdering an innocent person out of a petty reason even if she leaves you to die, she still cares right? When did I say anything about kids not having guns? Carl Grimes, Lizzie Samuels & Clementine to name a few lost a mother or a father or both but what did they do after? They saved lives, they didn't kill someone just for the heck of it. Could've or would've, Kenny didn't harm Ben in anyway and there were weapons in that room, Kenny could've shot Ben the same way Lilly did to Carley but didn't, if he did then this would be a different discussion but the final result is that he didn't.
I didn't say every family would be unable to separate purposeful and accidental, once again you assume. I'm saying many people wouldn't give a rat's ass if it was purposeful or accidental, I've seen it.
You know this doesn't help Lilly's case at all right? We know she purposely killed, families wouldn't give a rats ass whether it was on purpose or not then why should we give Lilly the benefit of the doubt as to hearing her out when she had a chance to explain herself or a chance to make things right when it was given to her when she was allowed back on the RV?
Again, I said disarm her before anyone was shot and keep guard over her. Read thoroughly
I read thoroughly, if that idea didn't work in the game itself, what makes you think it'll work in your version? You mean like Guards keeping an eye on the Scumbag convicts? Babysit a woman that cares about you in the hopes she doesn't stab you in the back. Thankfully she was disarmed otherwise she would've shot Lee before taking the RV.
Yes different people are affected differently by different things. No I'm actually not condoning what Lilly did so again, don't act … more
I really liked Lily, I mean, not at first, but later she wasn't all to bad when you considered what she had to go through and the decisions she had to make. That is until she shot Carley, then, all bets were off. Still, I hope she's changed for the better, and remembers how cool Lee was to her until they split.
That would be hilarious if Lily caught up to the RV. She'd be thinking "Where the fuck did they go?" and she would see the train crash area and think "they left on a train! so badass!" Who knows, she might have followed the tracks to Savannah.... Let that sink in...
Love the downvote you got because that fan is angry at you for not spamming that it has to be Kenny, haha. Kenny himself says the R… more
Lilly is gonna come back demanding the sixty cents Lee took out of Larry's pocket.
I felt sorry for Lilly. I even let her back on the RV, I knew she had to be punished and I was probably going to kick her out of the group unless she had REAL evidence it was Carley (at this point I'd narrowed it down so it HAD to be Ben, I had no doubt even before Kenny stopped the RV, but I wasn't gonna let him be kicked out by the road in the middle of the night, and I let Lilly back on because I knew all the noise would draw walkers. No matter what she did, I wasn't leaving a woman by the side of the road to die.
I would probably have sent her off down the road, I wanted to kill her but I didn't want Clem to have anymore shit that day. Yeah that turned out well.
When she took off with the RV though, leaving us stranded (I hadn't figured the train out yet) I figured fuck her though, I mean fine, she hated Kenny, didn't trust Lee, but she left two kids out there with no food or shelter.
I understand why, she must have figured we were going to kill her, but she could've got Clementine killed and that dog don't hunt with Lee, his whole, indeed only remaining purpose at that point was to keep Clem alive, and Lilly took a giant shit on it.
I'd like to see her back story wise like I've said on another thread, but my Clem wouldn't feel safe around her if the shit hit the fan unless she's gone through a change as dramatic as Brian Blake (the other way round though, can you imagine Lilly after 2 years at Governor level of crazy? lol)
I'd agree but the message is across all versions of the series. I only recall Lilly doing one badthing, what else was there? I hope… more
Kenny never did anything evil. His only morally questionable actions are leaving the walker bait girl (which was Lee, not Kenny, at the end of the day) which was actually pragmatism, she was bit, we had kids to feed.
Lilly does meet some of the characteristics of a sociopath, but not all. Many low level sociopaths actually do have empathy, but only for a very few close people, normally family, but have no empathy for other outside their circle, and have no ability to feel remorse at their own actions, which, to the sociopath, are always correct.
She certainly not a complete sociopath, Nate's a better example of that. Thomas and the Governor are both really good examples of a psychopath, sadistic, remorseless, amoral. Notice even the Governor has twisted empathy though, for Penny at least.
No, I'm saying that in that case you would probably sympathize with a remorseful killer. All of this is assuming that when Lilly com… more
Not really, lilys quite smart and not afraid too make tough decisions - i reckon she probably made it, but we won't see her again in the game.
Ye "brave", that's exactly how i'd describe what that bitch did - i hope bandits find her in the woods and put her out of her misery.
I will actually be happy if it is Lily or Kenny because I thought it was brave to kill Carley in front of the whole group but it's a zombie apocalypse, what do I know, Lily would make the most sense...
For my money Lilly would make the most sense followed by Christa or Molly. I guess we didn't see Kenny die but it was a pretty unescapable situation and completed the arc for that character. Lilly, Christa and Molly feel like they have more story to explore and could more realistically have survived where we last saw them.
Personally, I hope it's Kenny who comes back in season 2.
Kenny was a good and loyal man!
He tried to help peple, even when it was difficult.
Case in point, after Kenny, Lee and Mark found Ben and his friend and teacher in the woods, Kenny helped bring Ben's and his gut-shot friend back to the motor inn.
And as far as his being loyal, since My Lee and Kenny were best friends, when Clementine went missing, Kenny immediately volunteered to help Lee find her, refusing to let Lee go alone, and further stating Lee and Clementine were the only family he had left.
With all that said, I sincerely hope that Kenny will survive to season 2.
True. I'd just rather everyone chip in I suppose. Opinions are welcome so I'd just like to know why anyone would dislike a neutral POV. Agree though, I was in a silly mood yesterday


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Pakistan, which is always one of the most geopolitically interesting countries in the world, appears to be having another major political upheaval. The Supreme Court has ordered the arrest of the prime minister.
#BREAKING: Pakistan Supreme Court orders arrest of PM Raja Pervez Ashraf in connection with corruption allegations. More soon. — AJELive (@AJELive) January 15, 2013
#BREAKING: Pakistan PM ordered to be arrested for alleged involvement in kickbacks in rental power agreements. — AJELive (@AJELive) January 15, 2013
According to Pakistani news site Dawn.com, the prime minister has been ordered to appear in court tomorrow.
16 people total have been arrested.
Meanwhile, the Karachi stock exchange just plunged about 2.7% within seconds of the news.


text:
I have a file, f, on my webserver with the following contents:
alias ll='ls -l'
I would like to (from another linux box) do the following, but I can't get the command right:
curl http://myserver/f | ?
Where the ? will read each line into the current environment. So, given the above file, this would have the same effect as doing
% alias ll='ls -l'
in the current shell process. Is this possible?


text:
Registering to Vote: Step 1 - Am I Eligible?
Register to vote
Verify you are eligible
To register to vote, you must be all of the following:
- A U.S. citizen
- At least 18 years old by Election Day
- A resident of Michigan
- A resident of the city or township where you are applying to register to vote.
If you want to check to see if you are registered, visit www.Michigan.gov/vote. There you will find information about registering to vote and voting, voting equipment, polling place locations, state and local ballots, the candidates, campaign finance and more. Your local clerk can help with questions about your voter registration, polling place location and working at the polls.


text:
Get excited about reading again with fun and interesting tips from our experts, including The M.D., our dietitians, and our fitness expert. In our health library, you will find all of the information you need to achieve your goals of making a healthy lifestyle change. So, start reading and start losing!
Your one stop shop for everything you need to know about obesity. Discover the health risks of obesity, how it can be caused by genetic factors, and put common obesity myths to rest, once and for all.
No 30-second sound-bite can really summarize research that took years. Learn how to understand statistics.
You've probably heard some gleeful gloating lately about how death rates from obesity were grossly overstated in research released last year, and that it now seems that slightly overweight people might actually have a lower risk of death than normal-weight folks.
If you haven't heard it yet, you will. Over and over and over, probably. Just keep in mind that numbers can be crunched a lot of different ways, and the folks at the Centers for Disease Control will no doubt keep crunching them.
But while the jury is still out, ask yourself this: "If obesity is only the 7th leading cause of preventable death, instead of the 2nd, does that make it any easier for me to breathe when I'm climbing the stairs?"
The new numbers and conclusions, understandably, may be more welcome by more of the public. The Journal of the American Medical Association in April published the new research from the CDC, and it seems to contradict the previous finding that nearly 400,000 Americans a year die because of their excess weight.
Health Risk: "The new data suggest that the actual number is closer to 110,000 each year, and once that is adjusted for some statistical advantages of a little extra weight, the number drops to around 25,000."
You may be wondering just what does that mean? "Statistical advantages?"
Good question. Mark Twain's cynical reflection on number crunching comes to mind.
"There are three kinds of lies," he said. "Lies, damn lies and statistics."
Indeed, some contemporary cynics are hailing the new CDC research as evidence that all the previous research linking obesity and early death was the result of some vast, health-fixated conspiracy. The reality is more prosaic: newer data and more sophisticated analysis probably just produced different results.
But it's not even just that, according to the authors of the new research.
"The impact of obesity on mortality may have decreased over time, perhaps because of improvements in public health and medical care," they wrote.
And maybe there's the rub. Because more and more people in America are more and more overweight. And obesity causes all sorts of medical problems for most people. These things aren't disputed. But it's also true that, on the whole, we're also getting better and better at taking care of ourselves, no matter what our size or condition.
Health Risk: "Tremendous resources have been devoted to examining the causes and consequences of Americans' eating habits and burgeoning weight over the last couple decades. In that period, we've advanced by leaps and bounds in our understanding of heart disease, diabetes, exercise, genetics, medicines, nutrition and lifestyle factors that play into the whole complex issue."
And it's not idle study. Treatments are being developed even as new data are gathered and analyzed. All the science is evolving, and everything happens so much more quickly today that it's almost impossible to try to get all the latest information to coalesce into one comprehensive overarching Truth, with a capital T.
The best we can do is keep listening and learning and watching with an open mind, and a real eye to how the best new information is relevant to our own health.
Health Risk: "Because ultimately, like most statistics, broad sweeping numbers about national mortality risk are pretty meaningless to your personal situation. But if you've got heart arrhythmias, that matters to you. If you've got a wild fluctuations in your blood sugar, that matters to you. If you can't get into your jeans, that matters to you, even if the only effects you suffer are social or emotional.
Those things impair the quality of your life, and really, most people are more interested in how they're going to live than why they're going to die.
But then what about this piece that seems to indicate that slightly overweight people actually have a lower risk of death than normal-weight people?
Be careful with that tricky statistic and expect to hear it misused a lot in coming months. It's quite like the infamous data on the dangers of bread. You haven't heard? Well, just look at the statistics:
* More than 98 percent of convicted felons are bread users.
* Fully HALF of all children who grow up in bread-consuming households score below average on standardized tests.
* More than 90 percent of violent crimes are committed within 24 hours of eating bread.
* Bread is baked at temperatures as high as 400 degrees, which can kill an adult in less than one minute!
* Most American bread eaters don't even notice when statistics are misused.
It's obvious and silly when it's illustrated with bread factoids, but this is classic misuse of data. There's just no causal relationship! Yet we're already seeing exactly this sort of thing with people citing the "slightly higher weight/slightly lower risk" factoid from the recent study.
The subjects' risk wasn't lower because they were a little overweight. The study's authors acknowledged that. In fact, they noted that they didn't yet have an explanation for that paradoxical oddity.
But they'll speculate on it. And you can too. Consider: If you're a little overweight, and you're a little sedentary, and have little activity, you're probably limiting your exposure to other mortality risks. It's a good bet you won't get hit by a car if you're home eating corn chips in front of the TV. So, that could lower your death risk. That is, as long as you don't eat so many corn chips that you become obese, which will then raise your death risk.
Either way, you still have to worry about how you'll feel while you're sitting there. We tell patients that the "fit and fat" phenomenon is real, and that some people actually can by physically fit, yet still carry excess body weight and show no medical disadvantages from it. But that's not the same as being protected by it.
And it's not the same as having your life improved by it. Whatever the new data are on mortality and obesity, there are other, pretty long-standing data about the life-impairing effects of obesity, such as increased likelihood of debilitating diseases, joint replacements, high-risk pregnancies, surgical complications, physical limitations, insomnia, discrimination, lower salaries, social discomfort and self-esteem issues.
When all is said and done, everyone ultimately has the same death risk. Fat or slim, active or idle, well or ailing, we're all at extremely high risk of dying eventually. In fact, it's pretty much guaranteed. Science and medicine just haven't figured out how to change that outcome.
Until they do, it's still best to prevent, resist, and when possible overcome obesity. Not just because, in general, it's causing more death, but because in individuals, it simply leaves less room for life.
Simply answer a few questions so we can figure out your weight loss goals and provide solutions for a lighter, healthier you. Our weight loss meal plans are designed to help real people achieve real and lasting success.
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text:
Feds to landowner: Don't touch that trash
Lawsuit hits Washington's claim to Clean Water Act jurisdiction over dry land
A New Mexico couple has been warned by the federal government not to touch trash – tin cans, broken glass and the like – that has accumulated over the years on the 20 acres of desert land they bought for their retirement home near Santa Fe because it could hurt the Rio Grande River, 25 miles away.
The dispute over the Obama administration's claim to jurisdiction over desert land belonging to Peter and Francoise Smith is heading to court now. Their lawsuit alleges Washington is over-reaching in its claim that their land, which does not contain any "relatively permanent, standing or continuously body of water," can be regulated by the Clean Water Act.
The case is being brought by the Pacific Legal Foundation, which earlier this year won a major private property rights battle at the U.S. Supreme Court . The justices ruled that landowners have a right to contest a summary order to stop using their private land because of federal "wetlands."
That case stemmed from a Priest Lake, Idaho, case over the construction of a home in a suburban area after the federal government determined it was a "wetlands." The feds ordered the owners to turn over their records, provide detailed personal information, return the land to its natural state and leave it that way for years before seeking "permission" to use the land.
The high court said the EPA must provide a process through which a challenge to its decision can be addressed in a meaningful way. The law firm working on behalf of the Sacketts called the decision a "precedent-setting victory for the rights of all property owners."
In the Smith case, the couple was told by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers that a dry creek bed on their land was a "water of the United States" and therefore subject to the Clean Water Act.
"Constitutional Chaos: What Happens When the Government Breaks Its Own Laws"
The Pacific Legal Foundation said the case could set a nationwide precedent for property owners' right to challenge unsubstantiated allegations by regulators operating under the color of the Clean Water Act.
The Smiths' land is 20 acres off State Road 14 near Santa Fe. They bought the land for their retirement home and had been cleaning up trash, cans, glass and other debris that had accumulated there before they bought it.
"Federal officials claim regulatory power over the Smiths and their property, but the law says otherwise," said PLF attorney Jennifer M. Fry. "By labeling a dry creek bed as a jurisdictional water body, regulators are thumbing their noses at common sense and the Supreme Court.
"The Smiths' arroyo simply doesn't fit the Supreme Court's tests for being a 'water body' subject to federal oversight and control. If the federal government can tell the Smiths what they can and can't do on their own land, by twisting the Clean Water Act and essentially using a divining rod to conjure a 'water body' out of dry soil, then no property owner, anywhere, is safe from federal intrusion."
Fry said, "We're aiming to stop federal regulators from becoming a national zoning board with unlimited control over land use, from coast to coast.
"This case could also set a precedent by affirming that property owners have the right to their day in court, and Clean Water Act regulators aren't a law unto themselves. They must be subject to court review when they make a 'jurisdictional determination' that someone's property is covered by the Clean Water Act."
PLF said the Smiths' property was vacant when they purchased it several years ago.
"But it had also been used as a place to dump trash and other debris, so the Smiths began to slowly clean up the property and to manage the previously untended vegetation. However, the Corps has blocked the Smiths from further cleanup efforts," the foundation reported.
"Without any evidence, the government asserts that clearing brush and trash on the Smiths' property can cause a pollution flow down to the Rio Grande, 25 miles away," said Fry. "But mere assertions, without evidence, won't do. Federal officials can't take over someone's private property, simply on their own say-so.
"They have to offer proof for what they're alleging. Speculation isn't enough. And even if storm water could reach the Rio Grande (itself an unlikely scenario), the impact would be far too insignificant to justify the heavy hand of federal regulation."
In a statement released through the foundation, Peter Smith said the couple's life savings went into the land.
"A dry arroyo runs across the land and unfortunately, the prior owner had used it as a place to dump trash. In addition, a lot of trees in the arroyo and around the property had died as a result of a bark beetle infestation," he said.
"After retiring, Frankie and I started to clean up our land. We were shocked when one day we received a 'Notice of Violation' in the mail from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers accusing us of violating the Clean Water Act by conducting unpermitted work in a 'water of the United States.'"
He explained: "Given that we live in the high desert of New Mexico and the arroyo – like the rest of our property – is bone dry, we thought there was some mistake. We were really taken aback by the arrogance of the agency which didn't even bother to call us or knock on our door.
"And we still can't believe that the federal government can control what we do in our own backyard under the Clean Water Act when there is no water on our property! The real problem for us now is that we're afraid to continue our cleanup and maintenance efforts because the Corps told us that we will be considered 'knowing violators' subject to civil and criminal liability if we do any more work without obtaining a permit."
Smith said the lawsuit was launched "because we think the federal government has wrongfully trampled on our right to use and enjoy our property."
"We don't believe Congress ever intended to give the Corps power to regulate dry creek beds like ours and we want to help put an end to the Corps' ridiculous interpretation of 'waters of the United States.'"
The legal team explained that the Corps' claim of control over the Smiths' property violates the Supreme Court's tests for what constitutes a "water body" subject to federal oversight.
The attorneys said in the 2006 case of Rapanos v. United States, the court rejected an expansive interpretation of the phrase "waters of the United States."
Under Justice Antonin Scalia's plurality opinion, which PLF argues is controlling, there must be a "relatively permanent" water flow to a navigable body of water, such as a river, lake or ocean. The Smiths' arroyo remains dry year-round except during a rare storm, so there is no "relatively permanent" water flow. And even under the more lenient standard in Justice Anthony Kennedy's concurring opinion in Rapanos, there must be a "significant nexus" to navigable water.
"The closest navigable water – the Rio Grande – is 25 miles away. Even when it rains at the Smiths' property, water must pass through a second arroyo and then through an intermittent flowing creek and two dams before reaching the river," the team said.
PLF also has had accepted by the Supreme Court another land rights case, in Florida, where a local government demanded a landowner pay thousands of dollars for a land project miles away if he wanted to develop his property.
Critics have described the requirement as governmental extortion. Koonts v. St. Johns River Water Management District is expected to be decided this year.
See the foundation's explanation of the Santa Fe case:


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Is there anyone out there who hasn't read LIFE OF PI? For those who haven't it's the story of 16-year-old Pi Patel, the son of a zookeeper in Pondicherry, India. His father decides to move the family and some of the animals to Canada. Pi is set adrift in the Pacific after a shipwreck with a Bengal tiger, a zebra, a spotted hyena and an orangutan. It's a harrowing adventure as the tiger kills the other animals and Pi must use all his wits to stay alive. When their raft reaches the coast the tiger runs off and the authorities don't believe his story. Finally Pi tells them another more conventional version. Which is the truth? The reader must decide. What do I believe? - I think Pi created an adventure, one that he truly believes, one that allowed him to survive the terror, boredom, hunger and all the other emotions that go along with a journey that is physically and mentally agonizing.
Can this complex novel be made into a good movie? I have my doubts, but I did enjoy
Big Fish
It's another story where you must distinguish between a man's fish tales and reality.


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Victoria Davenport - 2001
Victoria Davenport - 2001
In 2001:
"Sitting inside a Boeing 747 on the runway of Richmond International Airport, all I could think about was how I was about to travel all the way across the country to attend a materials engineering camp with no one I had even met before. Little did I know that before I came back home, I was actually going to have the chance to see a Boeing 747 being constructed in a Seattle manufacturing plant with newly acquired friends. Forgetting about my nervousness for a moment, I tried to think of all the things I already knew about materials science. After thinking a few minutes, I realized that I really didn't know very much. From that point on, I decided that I was going to open my mind up to learn all I could about the world of materials. I was in for a surprise; I never knew that everyday materials could be so interesting!
After spending a week with other students my age at the University of Washington, I felt I had learned as much as I would have as a semester in college. I learned so many new things about materials - their origins, their structures, their uses, and their failures. Ranging all the way from metallography to failure analysis scanning electron microscopes, I had been introduced to what materials engineering actually is from the most knowledgeable people not only in the United States, but in the world. I got the chance to listen to lectures, perform experiments, do failure analysis tests, and visit local companies.
From my Materials Camp experience, I realized that materials science intrigues me and that I want to pursue it in my future career. Because of my participation in Materials Camp 2001, I had the wonderful opportunity to be introduced to a new, exciting, and challenging field of science that I will be able to enjoy for the rest of my life…"
Tori was admitted to Texas A&M University College of Engineering.


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I write on India's well-established entrepreneurs and corporate houses, covering a range of sectors. In a nutshell, I'm the Jack of all business news beats. In addition, I am the go-to reporter for aviation news at Forbes India.
(This story appears in the 23 June, 2017 issue of Forbes India. You can buy our tablet version from Magzter.com. To visit our Archives, click here.)


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Game On! Sports Schedule for March 15-17, 2013
This weekend brings a flurry of college basketball games, the quantity of which can't even be matched by the opening day of the NCAA Tournament.
Conference tournaments will all wind down this weekend, culminating in the announcement of the field of teams who will compete in the big dance.
Here's a look at this weekend's entire sports schedule. All times Eastern:
Friday, March 15
Charlotte at Toronto 7 p.m.
New Orleans at Washington 7 p.m.
Los Angeles Lakers at Indiana 7 p.m.
Phoenix at Atlanta 7:30 p.m.
Minnesota at Houston 8 p.m.
Orlando at Oklahoma City 8 p.m.
Miami at Milwaukee 8:30 p.m.
Cleveland at Dallas 8:30 p.m.
Memphis at Denver 9 p.m.
Chicago at Golden State 10:30 p.m.
NCAA Men's Basketball
Big East Tournament
Syracuse vs. Georgetown 7 p.m. (ESPN)
Notre Dame vs. Louisville 9 p.m. (ESPN)
Big 12 Tournament
Iowa State vs. Kansas 7:30 p.m. (Big 12 Network)
Oklahoma State vs. Kansas 10 p.m. (Big 12 Network)
Pac-12 Tournament
Arizona vs. UCLA 9 p.m. (Pac-12 Networks)
Utah vs. Oregon 11:30 p.m. (ESPN)
SEC Tournament
Florida vs. LSU 1 p.m. (ESPNU)
Alabama vs. Tennessee 3:30 p.m. (ESPNU)
Kentucky vs. Vanderbilt 7:30 p.m. (SEC Network)
Ole Miss vs. Missouri 10 p.m. (SEC Network)
ACC Tournament – All games on ESPN2
Miami vs. Boston College 12 p.m.
Virginia vs. North Carolina State 2 p.m.
Duke vs. Maryland 7 p.m.
North Carolina vs. Florida State 9 p.m.
Big Ten Tournament
Indiana vs. Illinois 12 p.m. (ESPN)
Wisconsin vs. Michigan 2:30 p.m. (ESPN)
Ohio State vs. Nebraska 6:30 p.m. (Big Ten Network)
Michigan State vs. Iowa (Big Ten Network)
Atlantic 10 Tournament
Saint Louis vs. Charlotte 12 p.m. (CBS Sports Network)
LaSalle vs. Butler 2:30 p.m. (CBS Sports Network)
VCU vs. St. Joseph's 6:30 p.m. (CBS Sports Network)
Temple vs. UMass 9 p.m. (CBS Sports Network)
Conference USA Tournament
Southern Miss vs. UTEP 4 p.m. (CBS Sports Network)
Memphis vs. Tulsa 6:30 p.m. (CBS Sports Network)
Mountain West Tournament
New Mexico vs. San Diego State 6 p.m. (CBS Sports Network)
UNLV vs. Colorado State 8:30 p.m. (CBS Sports Network)
New Jersey at Philadelphia 7 p.m.
Nashville at Calgary 9 p.m.
Detroit at Edmonton 9:30 p.m.
Saturday, March 16
Phoenix at Washington 7 p.m.
Charlotte at Boston 7:30 p.m.
Indiana at Philadelphia 7:30 p.m.
Cleveland at San Antonio 8:30 p.m.
Memphis at Utah 10 p.m.
Detroit at Portland 10 p.m.
NCAA Men's Basketball
Big East Tournament Championship
8:30 p.m. (ESPN)
Big 12 Tournament Championship
6 p.m. (ESPN)
Pac-12 Tournament Championship
11 p.m. (ESPN)
SEC Tournament
TBD vs. TBD 1 p.m. (ABC)
TBD vs. TBD 3:30 p.m. (ABC)
ACC Tournament
TBD vs. TBD 1 p.m. (ESPN)
TBD vs. TBD3 p.m. (ESPN)
Big Ten Tournament
TBD vs. TBD 1:40 p.m. (CBS)
TBD vs. TBD 4 p.m. (CBS)
Atlantic 10 Tournament
TBD vs. TBD 1:30 p.m. (CBS Sports Network)
TBD vs. TBD 4 p.m. (CBS Sports Network)
Conference USA Tournament Championship
??? vs. ??? 11:30 a.m. (CBS)
Mountain West Tournament Championship
3 p.m. (CBS)
America East Tournament Championship
Vermont vs. Albany 11:30 a.m. (ESPN2)
Big Sky Tournament Championship
9 p.m. (ESPNU)
Big West Tournament Championship
10:30 p.m. (ESPN2)
MAC Tournament Championship
6:30 p.m. (ESPN2)
MEAC Tournament Championship
5 p.m. (ESPNU)
Southland Tournament Championship
8:30 p.m. (ESPN2)
SWAC Tournament Championship
4:30 p.m. (ESPN2)
WAC Tournament Championship
11 p.m. (ESPNU)
Washington at Boston 1 p.m.
New York Rangers at Pittsburgh 1 p.m.
Ottawa at Buffalo 3 p.m.
Minnesota at Colorado 3 p.m.
Winnipeg at Toronto 7 p.m.
Montreal at New Jersey 7 p.m.
Carolina at Tampa Bay 7 p.m.
Phoenix at Columbus 7 p.m.
New York Islanders at Florida 7:30 p.m.
Anaheim at St. Louis 8 p.m.
Chicago at Dallas 8 p.m.
Detroit at Vancouver 10 p.m.
San Jose at Los Angeles 10:30 p.m.
Sunday, March 17
Miami at Toronto 1 p.m.
Orlando at Milwaukee 1 p.m.
New York at Los Angeles Clippers 3:30 p.m. (ABC)
Golden State at Houston 7 p.m.
New Orleans at Minnesota 7 p.m.
Oklahoma City at Dallas 7:30 p.m.
Atlanta at Brooklyn 8 p.m.
Sacramento at Los Angeles Lakers 9:30 p.m.
NCAA Men's Basketball
SEC Tournament Championship
1 p.m. (ABC)
ACC Tournament Championship
1 p.m. (ESPN)
Big Ten Tournament Championship
3:30 p.m. (CBS)
Atlantic 10 Tournament Championship
1 p.m. (CBS)
Boston at Pittsburgh 12:30 p.m. (NBC)
Winnipeg at Ottawa 5 p.m.
Buffalo at Washington 7 p.m. (NBC Sports Network)
Nashville at Edmonton 8 p.m.
NASCAR Sprint Cup Series at Bristol – 1 p.m. (Fox)


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Saturday, November 22, 2008
Working For A Living
Workers are feeling the pinch, but they haven't lost their ingenuity or their determination or there sense of humor. I ran into one of them on the 2 train and put his story on Bronx Banter.
2 comments:
- Donna said...
Good story over at Bronx Banter today. I know that is a great spot for you, but I don't want Yankees4Justice to die!
- November 22, 2008 at 4:46 PM
- JoeyBoy said...
Long Live Y4J!
- November 24, 2008 at 4:29 PM
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Several sentences were handed down this week in Craven County�s Superior Court.
Several sentences were handed down this week in Craven County�s Superior Court.
Melissa Anne Dinsmore, 43, of New Bern was convicted for felony death by motor vehicle and sentenced to a minimum of 44 months and maximum of 65 months in prison.
According to court documents, during the early hours on Jan. 28, Dinsmore was driving a vehicle on U.S. 17 South, with passenger and boyfriend, Craig Jessman. Dinsmore lost control of her vehicle and caused the car to flip. Jessman was ejected from the car and died on scene. Dinsmore was hospitalized.
Following her release from Vidant Medical Center in Greenville she completed an inpatient substance abuse program.
Dinsmore paid $2,000 in restitution. The funds went to Jessman�s family to pay for Jessman�s headstone.
According to District Attorney Scott Thomas, Dinsmore�s blood-alcohol level was 0.18, more than twice the legal limit for impaired driving.
�This is a tragic death caused by impaired driving,� he said, in a release. �A phone call for a ride from a cab, a friend, or a relative would have prevented this death and prison sentence.�
Another case heard in Craven County Superior Court this week was that of Marcus Maxwell, 29, and David Ligon, 33, both of New Bern. Both men were convicted of assault with a deadly weapon with intent to kill inflicting serious injury, and possession of a firearm by convicted felon.
Maxwell and Ligon were sentenced to 50 to 72 months in prison. Both men were already convicted felons.
On Sept. 29, 2012, Maxwell and Ligon, both intoxicated, attended a party at what witnesses called a shot-house, or a black market bar. Maxwell and Ligon believed James Harvey was the same man who had an argument earlier that evening with a friend of theirs. The victim, James Harvey, was shot and taken to the hospital immediately. Harvey required significant medical treatment but did not appear to have suffered long lasting effects from his injuries.
In a statement released by District Attorney Thomas, he said �This was a senseless attack by two convicted felons, in possession of a gun, and under the influence of alcohol.�
Chelsea Hodges, 27, of New Bern, has been convicted of 32 counts of obtaining property by false pretense.
On the night of Aug. 31, 2012, an unknown person broke into Grady & Grady Insurance on Neuse Boulevard in New Bern, also an outlet for the North Carolina Education Lottery. Several roles of scratch-off lottery tickets were stolen.
Hodges and co-defendant, Kanesha Blango, 21, used all of the tickets and cashed in their winnings at convenience stores along N.C. 55.
Several hundred dollars was collected by the women from the stolen tickets. Each stolen ticket cashed-in constitutes a separate felony charge.
Hodges and Blango were given four consecutive sentences, which were suspended. They were placed on supervised probation. In addition, they must pay restitution to Grady & Grady, pay court costs, probation service fees and court-appointed attorney�s fees. If Hodges and Blango violate their probation, each could face a minimum of two years in prison.
�Each of them now has dozens of felony offenses on her record, and the possibility of prison if they violate the probationary conditions,� said Thomas.
Eric Martin Brooks, 43, of New Bern, was convicted of larceny by employee and obtaining property by false pretense. He was sentenced to a maximum of 93 months in prison.
Brooks has at least three prior felony crimes on his record; therefore, he was convicted as a habitual felon under North Carolina�s version of �three strikes, you�re out.�
Brooks stole specialty tools from his employer, Munro Muffler Brake & Service in New Bern. Pretending to be the owner, Brooks then pawned those tools at a local pawn shop. He was identified through surveillance video from the pawn shop, which was recovered by New Bern Police.
In Onslow County, Brooks has pending charges of fraud and identity theft. It is expected that he will receive additional prison time related to those cases.
Brooks� criminal record stretches back to 1998, includes convictions for robbery, drug possession, obtaining property by false pretense, and forgery.
�Defendants who qualify as habitual felons have demonstrated their disregard for the law,� Thomas said, in a statement. �We evaluate offenses committed by these offenders and seek enhanced prison time in the appropriate cases.�
Jeremy Kent Williams, 31, of New Bern, was convicted for ten separate felony drug crimes; to included six counts of trafficking between 14 and 28 grams of opium, one count of attempted trafficking between 14 and 28 grams of opium, and three counts of obtaining a controlled substance by forgery.
Williams was sentenced to a minimum of 70 months and maximum of 84 months in prison. His probation for previous drug and theft offenses was immediately revoked. Williams was ordered, by the presiding judge, to serve all sentences in prison.
Thomas said, �Prescript drug fraud and abuse is one of the major issues facing those of us in the criminal justice system. Many of our impaired driving cases involve abuse of prescription drugs. � We will continue to investigate and prosecute these cases.�


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My dad's an author (English books with some Arabic) and until recently has been using WordPerfect for DOS for all his writing. He's been moving to Word and hates the lack of control he has compared to WP. I'm looking for options and LaTeX seems to be a good one. Here are the things I'd like to be able to do:
- Arabic inline text
- Support for chapters (as separate files)
- Support for ebook output (epub/mobi)
- Cross platform environment (Mac and Windows)
- Some way to move from WP and Word
Is this realistic with LaTeX, and what would be the best way to start for a newbie?


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Editor's note: Please don't try this at home.
This week, another installment of paddling in our backyard: Otter Creek Falls.
Whenever we slide into the water behind the restaurant there are a few patrons who shout off the porch.
"Do you know there's a waterfall down there?" they say, gesticulating wildly.
"What?" I say. "Really? A waterfall? How tall?"
These people often leave their steaming dinner plates to witness our final witless moments, and are subtly disappointed when no one leaves in an ambulance. Otter Creek Falls is one of the easiest waterfalls in Vermont. Despite its height (18'), the aspiring hucker or huckette need only to know how to roll and paddle forward.
That said, paddling whitewater is inherently risky business, and I'm not encouraging anyone to engage in this inane and endangering sport. Don't try to paddle off of Otter Creek Falls (or any waterfall, for that matter) without an experienced friend to show you the line. Even the most straightforward drops have potentially fatal consequences.
If you're an experienced paddler, Otter Creek Falls is a waterfall playground. You can paddle off of it at almost any flow, from summer drought to spring melt. There are a variety of lines, including boofing, freewheeling, and plugging. If you're not familiar with these terms, you probably shouldn't be dropping the falls.
For the uninitiated:
Boof: To land flat off of a drop. Don't check urban dictionary for the other definitions…
Plug: To fall vertically into the pool below a drop.
Freewheel: To make a full 180 degree vertical rotation in the air.
(photo Patrick Rogers)
If you are a capable whitewater kayaker and do want to paddle the falls, park in the municipal parking lot in Frog Hollow. Walk your boat up the hill, across Main Street (without shattering any shop windows) and down Bakery Lane past Jackson's on the River. Put in behind the dumpster and paddle downstream.
You're aiming for the river right side of the falls, where the water is deepest. Paddle through the right arch of the Otter Creek Bridge and line up for the falls. After the 18' drop, there's a surprisingly sticky ledge hydraulic which you need to point straight into.
Assuming that everything went okay, paddle back to your car for an (Otter Creek) beer or hike up for another lap.
For safety on the falls, it's best if everyone carries a throwrope. You need a PFD, helmet, and a specialized whitewater kayak. If you get hurt paddling off the falls in a recreational kayak, don't say I didn't warn you.
There are several truly dangerous things to watch out for on the falls. The river left side is shallow. Don't go there. Just behind the river right bridge abutment, there's a side channel that falls into a cave behind the falls. DO NOT go there. Sometimes (including the present time), there are trees pinned in the falls themselves. Don't paddle if you're worried about the trees. At the bottom of the falls, the big eddy on the right sometimes fills with wood.
But, if you scout carefully first, are confident in your skills, and have a solid safety plan, the falls can be a lot of fun. If you're thinking about paddling them, but don't know if you're ready or need someone to go with, email me [email protected].
All photos by Douglas Brooks unless otherwise stated.