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If you decide to plant insect-resistant corn hybrids in 2007, it is important that you also plant refuge acres, not only to meet EPA requirements, but for good stewardship of the technology.
Seed industry representatives say refuge compliance is now in the 92 to 95% range. But they are concerned that producers may not fully understand their refuge requirements, especially when planting the new stacked-trait Bt hybrids.
Bt corn hybrids all require a 20% corn refuge (50% in cotton areas) to prevent pest resistance. Depending on the Bt trait, the planting requirement for the refuge differs. Plant a corn rootworm trait, and the refuge must be planted in an adjacent field because the corn rootworm mating is localized. The refuge for the corn borer Bt trait can be planted one-quarter to one-half mile away. However, if you plant a stacked-trait Bt hybrid (one with corn rootworm and corn borer traits), you must adhere to the refuge requirement for the corn rootworm.
Entomologists stress that the refuge is necessary to ensure that at least some of the target pests survive and have the opportunity to breed with any pests that may have developed a resistance to either trait, especially the corn rootworm, which has a history of developing resistance.
Pest resistance pressure
The resistance issue becomes magnified this year as the corn industry anticipates a significant increase in Bt/corn rootworm acres as well as a shift to corn on corn. All the ingredients now exist for a significant increase in pest resistance pressure.
"University extension entomologists continually remind producers that it is indeed very important to utilize these refuges, especially as we look ahead and project more corn acres in 2007," says Michael Gray, professor of entomology at the University of Illinois and co-director of the North Central Region Integrated Pest Management Center. "We have several rootworm and corn borer events in the market now and a tremendous adoption of the technology. The selection pressure will only increase as we increase the number of Bt acres and the number of acres being planted to stacked hybrids."
Of major concern is proper adherence to the Bt refuge requirements. "There are some producers who are not in compliance, either unintentionally or intentionally," says Marlin Rice, professor of entomology at Iowa State University. "If they are not following the refuge requirement, that's a big disappointment."
Resistance, whether to insects or weeds, does occur over time. "Some people thought glyphosate would last forever," Rice says. "But we're seeing more and more glyphosate-resistant weeds popping up across the Midwest. A good technology can be used and abused."
Consistent message
That's why the companies that own the various Bt technologies are trying to educate producers on how and why to plant refuge acres. The Bt technology owners — Monsanto, DuPont/Pioneer, Dow AgroSciences and Syngenta — have teamed up in an Agriculture Biotechnology Stewardship Technical Committee to deliver a consistent message on the importance of refuge management.
"As we continue to introduce new traits and new technology, we are increasing our efforts to 'respect the refuge,' including launching a campaign with the same name to communicate refuge requirements and the benefits of stewarding our technologies," says JoAnn Carden, Insect Resistance Management (IRM) coordinator for Monsanto. "Over the past three years, compliance has been on the increase."
Dow AgroSciences has launched a number of educational activities to make sure that producers understand the IRM obligations. The company indicates that it will continue to provide rootworm control options to growers for refuge acres or to those growers who desire a traditional means of insect control in corn. "There remains a market for at-plant, soil-applied insecticides, and we want to provide quality alternatives to growers," says Hank King, marketing specialist for U.S. insecticides.
Lance Bailey, product stewardship manager at Pioneer Hi-Bred International, says the company has focused its efforts on ensuring that the refuge requirements are being met. "The first area of confusion has been the distance requirement," Bailey says. The second message is the use of stacked traits in the refuge. Most producers are familiar with the 20% refuge requirement. However, it is possible to plant 60% of a stacked trait, 20% corn borer and 20% corn rootworm and still meet the refuge requirements. "It's more complex, and that's why we're working to educate our sales reps and customers," Bailey says.
The seed industry has attempted to simplify the refuge requirements for the Bt traits and to provide producers flexibility. "We didn't want to confuse growers with varying refuge management requirements," says Paul Bertels, director of biotechnology for the National Corn Growers Association (NCGA). "Our message to the EPA was simple: Let's make the program consistent."
Burrus Hybrids has addressed the refuge management issue aggressively. "As we have continued to sell more technologies, each spring we get more and more calls from customers asking about refuge management," says Tom Burrus, president. "They're at the seed shed making their planting decisions and trying to determine what hybrids belong together. It can sometimes be a long time from when the seed is ordered to when it is poured in the planter."
Burrus says, to assist producers, the company will make specific hybrid recommendations that start with the herbicide decision. "Most producers use only one system for corn, so to narrow the field of choices, we ask our customers what type of herbicides they use," Burrus says. "Although that's not part of the refuge decision, it narrows the product choices."
Producer's responsibility
Although the EPA mandates record keeping and company audits, the ultimate responsibility for managing the technology falls on the shoulders of producers. "Many producers buy from more than one company," says Tom Strachota, CEO of Dairyland Seed. "So it is ultimately up to the producers to ensure they are managing their refuge properly." Nearly 300 corn companies are licensing the various insect protection technologies.
What happens to growers who decide to skip the refuge requirement and get caught by the EPA? Growers who are not in compliance will receive additional education from the license-holding companies to stress the refuge need and ensure that one is planted. If, in the second year, the grower again is found not in compliance, he or she will lose access to the technology.
"That has occurred this year," Monsanto's Carden says. "We have a handful of growers who have lost access to our technology by not adhering to IRM and refuge recommendations."
Producers can expect constant reminders on the importance of refuge management. "We are going out with a renewed effort this spring to remind producers to meet their refuge requirements," NCGA's Bertels says. "If we don't, we're in jeopardy of losing this technology. A lot of growers don't realize that the Bt technology is no different than a chemical — it's a regulated product." And as with other products, the EPA has rules for its use.
"A lot of the Bt technologies will come up for reregistration in 2008," Bertels says. "And if we see our refuge compliance slip, we really don't know how the EPA will react, and I don't think we want to find out. There could be tighter restrictions on the technology, or even limited use. That's why we want to reinforce the IRM message so that compliance doesn't lapse."
If resistance were to be discovered, it would be a black eye for the industry, says Christina DiFonzo, field crop entomologist at Michigan State University. And that could put additional pressures on any other new technologies in the pipeline.
Protect and preserve
THE BEST way to preserve the benefits of Bt technologies is to properly use and manage corn refuge acres. The first, and most important, step is to scout to determine if you have a rootworm or corn borer problem, and at what level. "A lot of producers may see lodged corn and think they have a rootworm problem, and that may not be the case," says Christina DiFonzo, field crop entomologist at Michigan State University. "There are a lot of environmental factors that may hinder root development. The only way to know for sure is proper scouting."
Michael Gray, professor of entomology at the University of Illinois, says 2006 fall surveys of European corn borer showed very low numbers in several areas of the state. He says, "That raises the question that producers should be asking: Do I need a Bt hybrid for corn borer control in 2007?"
Corn rootworm can be trickier. "I think that most producers don't scout for corn rootworms," Gray says. "Lodging can occur for a variety of reasons, and the only way to assess damage or whether the infestation has reached an economic threshold is through scouting."
Refuge acres can be managed with traditional insecticides, including seed-applied and soil-applied insecticides. "We encourage growers to manage their refuge acres for the best yield potential," says Steve Knodle, Syngenta's Agrisure traits marketing manager. "That includes proper scouting to identify your pests, the economic thresholds, and which pests need to be controlled."
It's also important that the hybrids planted on the refuge are of the same maturity as the insect technology hybrids and that they're planted at the same time.
It is possible to plant only Bt hybrids. For example, 60% of your corn can be planted to a stacked-trait hybrid, 20% to a corn borer hybrid, and 20% to a corn rootworm hybrid. That would meet the refuge requirements.
What you can't do is mix technologies and think you've planted a refuge. For instance, if you're planting 80% to a Herculex Xtra hybrid, you can't plant YieldGard on the refuge acres or vice versa.
For more information, visit www.ncga.com/biotechnology/IRMCenter/index.asp; www.herculex.net; www.ipm.uiuc.edu; www.monsanto.com/monsanto/us_ag/content/stewardship/ irm/2004/yieldgard.pdf; and www.monsanto.com/monsanto/us_ag/layout/stewardship/default.asp.


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Meet the Roaster: Counter Culture Coffee's Jeff McArthur
Compared to the highly social job baristas have—what with the nonstop stream of customers clamoring for cappuccinos—coffee roasters often spend long, solitary hours turning green beans brown, only occasionally lifting their voices to shout over the roar of the machinery. (Small talk ain't easy 'round these parts.)
What is it that draws folks to spending more quality time with beans than with the folks that drink their juice? I asked Counter Culture Coffee roaster Jeff McArthur to shed a little light on both his coffee and his craft.
A soft-spoken but heavily bearded Oregon native, McArthur roasted his first batch of caffeinated stuff in the "remote realms of Southeast Alaska," where he worked with the US Forest Service after graduating college. "I studied natural-resource management and forestry," he says. "[It was] my ticket to the work in the woods, where I liked to play." Though he's not in the woods anymore, he is still propping himself up behind a coffee roasting machine every morning—these days in Durham, North Carolina, where he's a member of the roasting department at Counter Culture Coffee.
After three months of working on the production floor—sorting, bagging, and shipping coffee to wholesale customers—McArthur began a roaster apprenticeship with CCC in July 2008, accepting a full-time position early the next year. Nervous during his apprenticeship ("Somehow the possibility of destroying the coffee or setting fire to the place becomes an overwhelming likelihood," he says), he soon learned to love the "physics and art of coffee roasting: "I didn't get it right the first time or the next, but I loved trying it again and again, searching for the right smells, sounds, colors and physical development of the beans."
Like with any skill, practice makes perfect—but it's always heartbreaking to a coffee lover when perfection is elusive for a batch or two. "I made lots of mistakes, some big ones even," McArthur says. "But that's part of learning the craft and getting better."
So what exactly does a roaster's job look like? Well, first he's got to get the beans. "When green coffee arrives [at Counter Culture], it usually has a limited shelf life—say two to three weeks before it meets the fire and steel," McArthur says about the first steps in a coffee's journey. Once he arrives at the facility (typically around 5 a.m.), he and the other roasters fire up the machines, make a report of the day's orders, and start breaking down the day's batches to assign them different roasting machines and operators.
No small task, when you start to figure how many pounds get cooked in a day: "An average this time of year is about five thousand pounds of roasted coffee. [Our] biggest day on record is nine thousand pounds." (That translates to a lot of macchiatos, people.) Though the actual firing of the coffee normally wraps up at around 2 p.m., there's still tasting, quality control, and the blending-and-bagging going on throughout the roastery's production floor.
As for the roasting process itself, it's a delicate mix of machine power and intense concentration. Green beans are loaded into the equipment and are exposed to very high heat (depending on the bean, roast profile, and machine, temperatures could climb past 450°F) for, say, 15 minutes or so (again, depending). "The finishing moments of the roast are the most critical ," McArthur says.
"If a roast is allowed to carry on a few degrees more than desired, you can rapidly move into a completely different flavor profile. The same can be said for dumping a roast prematurely [into the roaster's cooling tray], when flavors may not have had a chance to fully mature." During those essential final moments, McArthur extrudes a small sample of the beans mid-roast, checks it for color and aroma, and pops it back into the machine to finish up. Once he senses a batch is done, he finishes the process by dropping the whole shebang into a cooling tray, where the beans are rotated using a large mixing paddle to allow air to circulate around them and stop their internal cooking process.
And then? The process starts all over again. And again, and again...
"You learn to respect the equipment as well as the coffee," he says, Zen-like. "To this day I'm learning...making mistakes, improving my skills, and understanding coffee's interaction with fire."
And as long as that helps the latte-loving people of the world understand and respect coffee's interaction with our daily 3 p.m. energy crash, we'll be forever grateful to you and those like you, sir.
This post may contain links to Amazon or other partners; your purchases via these links can benefit Serious Eats. Read more about our affiliate linking policy.

subset: commoncrawl


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Find Your Perfect Home.
Gowen Real Estate
Gowen is located in Michigan. Gowen, Michigan has a population of 4,015. Gowen is less family-centric than the surrounding county with 22.26% of the households containing married families with children. The county average for households married with children is 33.22%.
The median household income in Gowen, Michigan is $53,177. The median household income for the surrounding county is $52,716 compared to the national median of $53,482. The median age of people living in Gowen is 45.8 years.
Gowen Weather
The average high temperature in July is 83.4 degrees, with an average low temperature in January of 12.9 degrees. The average rainfall is approximately 35.6 inches per year, with inches of snow per year.
Gowen Map
Real Estate Near Gowen
Nearby Cities
Nearby Cities Homes for Sale
Gowen Zip Codes


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ForexTime Ltd (FXTM) is an international online forex broker headquartered in Limassol, Cyprus. FXTM is regulated by the Cyprus Securities and Exchange Commission (CySEC) and in accordance with Law 144(I)/2007 is also a member of the Investor Compensation Fund (ICF). Cyprus is an EU regulated region and a major investment hub. Located at the crossroads of Europe, Africa and the Middle East, its geographical location is ideal for a forex broker. The company provides services to a wide range of different customer types including retail, business to business, institutional investors, portfolio management, introducers and in the near future, affiliates. We offer a vast amount of trading instruments, platforms and accounts, tailored to the individual needs of our clients.
The ideal candidate will join a dynamic and fast paced working enviroment. The succesful candidate will be responsible for the following tasks:
Technical Knowledge & Qualifications:
The successful candidate will receive a competitive remuneration package including private medical insurance.
To apply to this position please send your CV to email@example.com, stating the role you are applying for in the email. All applications will be treated confidentially.


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Our fashion rings come in all shapes and sizes. Whether you are wearing for the daily casual or attending formal parties, you can find one for your needs.
17755 Rowland Street City of Industry, California 91748 United States
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text:
Kindles, Nooks, & Kobos…Oh My!
E-Reader Lunch & Learn Session
Are you thinking of asking Santa for an e-reader this holiday season? Do you already have a Kindle, Nook, or other e-reader and want to know how to access FREE Library e-books?
Come to our "Lunch & Learn†session to play, ask, discover, and learn about selected e-readers, including the Kindle, Nook, and Sony. A variety of e-readers will be available to play with!
Susan Wood, Librarian at the New Hanover County Public Library, will be on hand to demonstrate a variety of e-readers and to help you to access e-books from the North Carolina Digital Library.
Date:Â Â Wednesday, December 7th @ Noon
Location: L-228
This is an informal brown bag session.Â
Feel free to bring your lunch!
Tip: If you are bringing your own e-reader, please be sure that it is charged and that you also bring your New Hanover County Public Library card—so you can begin borrowing right away!


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Your Home. Your Lifestyle. Our Passion.
Come home to beautiful Williamsburg, Virginia. Kingsmill Realty is your top choice for Williamsburg real estate. With our expert realtors and variety of attractive listings, we can help you through every step of buying or selling a home in Williamsburg, VA.
Our expert team of realtors has over 130 years of combined real estate experience. With a real estate agent on-site in our offices every day, we are available to help you with the buying, selling, or renting a home in Williamsburg.
When you're ready to call America's Historic Triangle home, call the real estate agents at Kingsmill Realty in Williamsburg.


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The end of unemployment extensions is likely to create repercussions
Marcella McClarin of Albertson would take just about any job � if she could land one.
�I�m basically looking for anything to pay the bills,� she said.
McClarin had been raising her son while her husband worked full-time. But with bills escalating, it�s time for her to bring in a paycheck.
�It�s been a struggle,� she said. �It really has.�
It appears, at least for now, the state will be cutting all four tiers of the federal unemployment insurance extensions, under the Emergency Unemployment Compensation Program, after June 30.
It�s neither good news for those who are about to lose those benefits nor those who are currently looking for a job.
The numbers of people who are receiving unemployment extensions are about 474 in Lenoir County, 125 in Greene County and 54 in Jones County, said Larry Parker, a spokesman for the Division of Employment Security in Raleigh.
Jamie Wallace, the manager of the Division of Workforce Solutions in Kinston, said he hopes the state will step in and make a change, but his office is preparing for the worst.
�I�m expecting we�re probably going to have a lot more traffic than there has been,� he said.
It could also increase the traffic at area food pantries and other charitable agencies, such as ICOR, or Inter Church Outreach.
Many people who are getting assistance from ICOR are using their unemployment checks to get by until they find a job, Director Marilyn Patrick said.
�I think it�s going to be critical,� she said, �because we have lots of people who are receiving unemployment.�
It may create a greater need for donations, as well as a need to solicit for more donations, Patrick said.
On a slightly brighter side, statewide unemployment numbers have been creeping downward, dropping to 8.9 percent in April. Local county rates were 9.2 percent in Lenoir, 8.9 percent in Jones and 9.8 percent in Greene � all lower than the previous month and year, except Greene.
Corporations like Smithfield Foods, Masterbrand and Electrolux have been seeing success, said Mike Pope, Lenoir County economic developer.
�It seems like we�re heading in the right direction,� he said.
�I don�t know how it will affect (Lenoir),� Pope said about the deadline. �I know it will affect us in some way.�
He said partnering with Golden LEAF, the N.C. Rural Center and the Department of Commerce Utility Fund has helped the expansion of companies such as Sanderson Farms, West and Spirit AeroSystems.
�We�ll do the best we can and keep fighting,� Pope said, �keep recruiting and try to get jobs here.�
Struggling to find a job
McClarin, who was waiting in Kinston�s Division of Workforce Solutions office, found temporary work recently, but that ended. She has worked as a cook and housekeeper, but said it�s not worth working for minimum wage.
�Either they�re not hiring or the pay is not enough to drive a certain distance,� she said. �I mean, $7.25 is not enough for me to drive.� Not when she has to pay for daycare and gas, she added.
So the 42-year-old juggles her bills around each month and ends up making phone calls to explain when she will pay her rent and utilities.
�People really think a lot of people are not out there searching,� she said, �but they are. It�s just hard to get.�
It may be harder for people moving into the area.
Jennifer Brown, 32, moved to Kinston from Atlanta for a change of pace after finishing school. She earned a degree as an X-ray technologist and later specialized in mammography.
Starting school in 2007, her career field was wide open. However, when the economy took a nosedive in 2008, students flocked into community colleges to earn certifications in programs like the one in which she was enrolled.
Fortunately for Brown, she is living with relatives. By the time she arrived in Kinston earlier this year, jobs in her field were fairly scarce.
�It�s hard for me as an outsider to get a job,� she said. �Once people get there, they kind of stay awhile.�
James Haddock, 41, of La Grange, has been job searching for about two months and is skilled in a variety of jobs. He shares living expenses with his brother and takes on small floor cleaning jobs to get by, but they are sporadic.
�I�m pulling my part, but it�s still tight,� he said.
He lost a job at Smithfield because of a lack of transportation. A week and half later, he got transportation, but he said he�s having to wait a year before he can possibly be employed there again. Visiting the Workforce Solutions office, he said he checks for full-time, permanent jobs online.
Terrell Reid, 26, just moved to Kinston from New Jersey. Wearing a dress shirt and tie, he carried his typed resume into the Workforce Solutions office and sat at a computer to search for jobs. A former assistant manager, he appeared confident he would find a job.
�A lot of stuff is in the field that I�m in,� he said.
Jobs are out there
Some employers are nearly always looking for workers.
Sanderson generally has a weekly turnover, said Mike Cockrell, the company�s chief financial officer.
�We employ a little over 1,200 people at the plant in Kinston,� he said. �Every week we have to replace people.�
About 10-15 percent of the employee population turns over frequently, especially when the unemployment rate drops, he said.
�We get anywhere from 20-25 (applications) a week,� Cockrell said, �though we don�t always have that many slots available.�
With a day and evening shift, most of the openings occur in the second shift, he said.
Sanderson opened in 2011 and began full production last year � despite the economic downturn that started in 2008.
Entry-level pay starts above minimum wage, making it attractive to many job seekers. But the assembly-line job requires moving quickly while standing for extended periods of time, so it isn�t for everyone, Cockrell said.
Some places are always looking for good staff, but getting employees to stay on part-time status is difficult. Such is the case for certified nursing assistants and personal care assistants.
Susan Rodwell, a registered nurse and in-home aid supervisor at Home Life Care on Vernon Ave, said the turnover is constant.
�It�s not usually full-time, per se,� she said is the reason for the turnover. �We always have staffing issues, especially on the weekends.�
But a few employees are able to secure two or three jobs that end up being full-time hours, she said. Others prefer the part-time hours.
The work is available, and some in-home care is state-mandated, requiring certified aids seven days a week. Home Life Care will assist their PCAs with study materials so they can become certified, Rodwell said.
For small businesses, there may be plenty of applicants, but finding the right employee is tricky.
Judy B. Johnson is owner of Living Well Down East, a health food store in the downtown. She took her hiring sign down a couple of weeks ago when the applications started coming in � about a dozen.
After more than three years in the business, Johnson�s learned how to keep the number of applications down to a reasonable number by informing potential applicants that the job isn�t as simple as some may believe it to be. She does so by handing out the job description with the application.
�I feel like it�s hard to find good applicants,� she said.
Johnson had put the sign out to hire one person, but then lost two employees. So she ended up hiring three people. She said she figures each has an asset to offer, so between the three, she hopes to cover all the business needs.
�I take our customer service very seriously,� she said, �so I look for individuals that understand and assume responsibility for being customer service-oriented as a priority.�
Then she looks for people who have knowledge of health products, or at least live a healthy lifestyle or have an interest in it and are pro-active. Hiring and training is a time-consuming endeavor, she said.
�I often hired people that shop here,� she said. �It seems to be a good fit for people who have retired from their profession.�
It�s part-time work without benefits. As a small business owner, Johnson said she couldn�t afford to pay for benefits. She hopes that will change at some point.
Becoming job-ready
More job opportunities in the area are a long-term solution, but potential employees need to be ready.
Pope said he�s particularly focused on recruiting suppliers for Spirit, and there are several companies with cash �ready to move forward.�
The key, he said, is having a trained employable pool ready for the potential industries, as well as training starting at the junior high level and including displaced workers.
The job market is changing from factory work to technically-advanced positions, Wallace said.
�A lot of people that are out of work,� he said, �are going to need to be retrained to go into new fields.�
There was a loss of 8,000 jobs from the textile industry, Pope said. But the potential career fields now include aerospace, food processing, pharmaceutical, the housing industry, biotechnology and robotics.
�People have to be proactive and reactive,� he said.
The Workforce Solutions office provides free computer access, help with resumes and job searching and career guidance assessments, as well as training at Lenoir Community College, Wallace said.
�A ramp-up of education is what we�ll have to provide,� he said.
His office visits employers in the county to try to secure orders for job openings, he said. The services are free, but many employers don�t know that, he added.
Job seekers can become certified in three levels of career readiness � certification that is required by certain types of employers. Being retrained gives a person �a leg up,� Wallace said.
He dispelled the theory that it�s easier to get a job when a person has a job. Getting a job is about having a good resume and being able to speak with the employer, he said.
Brown said she spends full-time searching online, making cold calls to businesses not necessarily in her field and filling out applications � a tedious job in itself.
�Networking is the biggest thing to me,� she said.
Brown makes it a practice to ask people for ideas about job locations and who to contact, but said most business people haven�t been helpful. But recently, she found one woman at a bank who has been a welcomed source of assistance.
�When I meet someone with a human touch,� she said, �it makes a difference. I can understand it�s routine (for them), � but for us (job seekers), it�s not a routine thing. So basically, it can get discouraging very easily.�
Brown said she would like to get her foot in the door where she can eventually move into her career choice, but is at the point of taking any job now.
�I kind of think with just the different contacts I�ve made,� she said, �and the different people I�ve met, there is some hope.�
Margaret Fisher can be reached at 252-559-1082 or firstname.lastname@example.com. Follow her on Twitter @MargaretFishr.
For anyone with a criminal record, finding a job may be more difficult than usual. Here are some tips that may increase the chances of landing a job.
1. If your record has mistakes and/or incorrect charges, contact your local Division of Criminal Justice to get a copy, or call the Legal Action Center at 212-243-1313. You can also seal your records so that only the criminal charges will appear.
2. If you have gone through a rehabilitation program, ask the clinic director to write you a letter of support. Ask the house manager, if you were living in a halfway house. It shows youre putting forth effort.
3. Sell yourself as a person, not a criminal. Explain why you had trouble, how you have changed and what you learned from your mistakes. Bring letters of recommendation. Explain why you want the job, look the employer in the eye and speak frankly and clearly and be honest. Dress for success.
4. To find a job, contact:
Goodwill Visit them online, or go into any Goodwill center
Department of Justice The re-entry pages for prisoners lists agencies that can help you find a job, state by state and explain how your employer can get a tax break for hiring you
National Hire Network The website has a list of employers with links that you can show your employer, detailing how to get a tax refund for hiring ex-cons
Prison Talk A forum for ex-cons. Network with them to find job opportunities.
Source: The Beehive North Carolina


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October 7, 2009
Guests: Rep. Dennis Kucinich, Rep. Mac Thornberry, Max Cleland, John Harris
CHRIS MATTHEWS, HOST: Obama drama.
Let's play HARDBALL.
Good evening. I'm Chris Matthews in Philadelphia, where the playoffs began today. Leading off: Now what? It was eight years ago today that President Bush announced the beginning of the war in Afghanistan.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: To all the men and women in our military, every sailor, every soldier, every airman, every Coast Guardsman, every Marine, I say this. Your mission is defined, your objectives are clear, your goal is just.
MATTHEWS: Well, today that mission in Afghanistan is no longer defined. The objectives are not clear. And Americans are split on the goal. We're joined by two members of the Congress with very different ideas about where we go from here in a war that has lasted longer than any other except Vietnam and the American Revolution.
Plus: Few people know more about the horrors of war than former Georgia senator Max Cleland, who lost three limbs in Vietnam. He says we shouldn't be nation-building in Afghanistan, we should be targeting al Qaeda, wherever it is. And wait until you hear what he has to say about Karl Rove, who portrayed him as unpatriotic.
And what are we to make of these two new polls out today? An Associated Press poll has President Obama's approval rating up 6 points since September, up to 56. But a new Gallup poll shows the Republicans now with a very clear chance to gain control of the speakership next year. We'll survey the political landscape and get the early odds on whether Republicans can win back the House.
Late today, the Democrats got some good news on health care. The Congressional Budget Office said, in effect, that the Senate Finance Committee's bill is fully paid for. We'll break that down in the "Politics Fix."
And Steve Colbert has a very funny take on the very serious question of how President Obama's handling Afghanistan. We'll have that in the "Sideshow."
Let's start tonight with the war in Afghanistan eight years on. Let's take a look at what Walter Cronkite famously said about the Vietnam war in 1968. Let's listen.
WALTER CRONKITE, "CBS EVENING NEWS" ANCHOR: It seems now more certain than ever that the bloody experience of Vietnam is to end in a stalemate.
MATTHEWS: Congressman Dennis Kucinich is an Ohio Democrat who thinks we should get out of Afghanistan now, and Republican congressman Mac Thornberry of Texas says we need to send in more troops.
Let's get to the issue right now with both of you. Congressman Kucinich, you first. Are we losing the war in Afghanistan?
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH (D), OHIO: We should have never been there. We got to get beyond equations of win or lose. We can't-we can't win in a situation where there's a weak central government, widespread fraud, where occupations fuel insurgency, where there's drugs involved. This is a nightmare. We need to get out troops out of there and get them out of there as fast as we can.
MATTHEWS: But I want an answer. Are we losing? The general says our mission is failing. Do you agree with him, General McChrystal?
KUCINICH: Well, I-again, I don't think we should have ever gone in
or stayed in there to begin with. So I don't even-my level (ph)
analysis on this, Chris, is-it goes beyond winning and losing. We win
by leaving.
MATTHEWS: OK. Well, that's an interesting point of view. I'm trying to figure out whether we're beating the Taliban or whether we can't beat them, they're going to be there when we're gone.
Let me go to Congressman Thornberry. Are we losing the war against the Taliban in Afghanistan?
REP. MAC THORNBERRY ®, TEXAS: Well, I trust General McChrystal's assessment that things are going badly. That does not mean we are losing to the Taliban, but it means we-things are going in the wrong direction, which means the Taliban is gaining, and as they gain, al Qaeda has more room to maneuver and to plan and to plot against us.
MATTHEWS: OK, let me ask you, Congressman Kucinich, if you get your way, if we pull out of Afghanistan quickly, what will be the consequences of that decision?
KUCINICH: Well, I think, immediately, we don't just pull out without consulting with nations in the region. And we have to make sure that we-that we have an ongoing observation of what's going on in that region. But I think the immediate consequence is that the United States will be spared the loss of more troops, is that we won't see the U.S. in a position where during our occupation, the production of opium goes up in the country. I think that we'll start to be in a position of stabilizing our situation in other parts of the world. I think we'll be in a stronger position to play a hand with Iran.
I don't think we're-I think we're destabilizing our power by being in Afghanistan, and I think we should get out of there and we should get out of Iraq, as well.
MATTHEWS: Do you believe if we pull out of Afghanistan, the Taliban will defeat the central government of Karzai?
KUCINICH: I think that the central government of Karzai right now is
so corrupt and so weak that if we stay in there, we can't prop it up. It's
despised by the people of Afghanistan. So whoever takes over, you know,
they're going to have a difficult time being able to control Afghanistan
until, number one, they get control of the drug situation, which is really
the warlords and the drug lords have taken over much of Afghanistan. So whoever takes over that central government, they're going to have a tough time holding on. You're looking at-you're looking at controlled chaos for quite a few years.
MATTHEWS: Congressman Thornberry, what happens if we give General McChrystal the 40,000 more troops he wants? What will be the result of that decision?
THORNBERRY: Well, remember, he's not just asking for more troops. He wants to implement a new strategy. And what that strategy seeks to achieve is to help the Afghans stand up their own police and their own military so that they can take care of their own security so, ideally, given the time and training and so forth, Afghans can secure their territory and prevent it from becoming another base to be used against terrorist-as terrorist attacks against us, and Pakistan can also prevent its territory from being used as a base against us, and the government of Pakistan can be stabilized, as well.
Remember, it's not just what happens within the borders of Afghanistan that's important, it's neighboring Pakistan with nuclear weapons that we have to keep our eye on.
MATTHEWS: Do you believe that President Karzai's party won that last election? Do you believe that was a clean election? Do you believe we're defending a legitimate government? You first, Mr. Thornberry.
THORNBERRY: It's obviously not a clean election. Exactly who won, I don't know, and we'll be watching for the studies and the investigations on that.
But remember, we're not there to defend the Karzai government. We're there to prevent a sanctuary from being used to attack us here at home and we're there to prevent the government of Pakistan from being destabilized. And I would say, as a benefit, a side benefit, in a way, we are there to prevent return of the Taliban rule. And nobody should underestimate the humanitarian disaster that those stadium executions and the other things that went on during the Taliban rule brought on the people of Afghanistan.
MATTHEWS: I'm just trying to figure out, gentlemen, what exactly will happen if your policy prescriptions are carried through. I want to go back to Congressman Thornberry. You seem very unclear as to what we're protecting over in-are we protecting the government there? How do we-who are we for-who are we for in Afghanistan? Who are we for?
THORNBERRY: We're for us and we are for stabilizing...
MATTHEWS: We're for us in Afghanistan?
THORNBERRY: Yes, sir. We are stabilizing the government in Afghanistan so that Afghanistan...
MATTHEWS: The Government of Karzai?
THORNBERRY: ... Afghanistan and neighboring Pakistan cannot be used as a sanctuary to attack us.
THORNBERRY: This is what it's about. Now, they're imperfect, but remember, their military and their police force is building up. And rather than focus on the head in Kabul, we need to look at their whole national capabilities and whether they can effectively prevent...
THORNBERRY: ... al Qaeda from using it as a base against us.
MATTHEWS: Let me get back to Congressman Kucinich because you seem hesitant, sir. I think I know your philosophy here, but I don't get your particular belief. Do you believe that General McChrystal is correct in saying our mission is a failure, that we are losing the ground war against the Taliban?
KUCINICH: What he said is predicated on him wanting to send more troops.
MATTHEWS: Right.
KUCINICH: And I disagree with that, Chris. So I think that-you know, his whole view is you look at improving the counterinsurgency. It's wrong strategy for Afghanistan. You need-counterinsurgencies are built for more stable situations than have you in Afghanistan. The idea that we're going to put an-a democracy in Afghanistan, when you consider all the corruption that they've had, ballot stuffing, ballot shredding, intimidation, it's kind of like thinking that you can have a rock-or have a rose grow out of a-out of a-out of sheer granite. It's not going to happen. It's the wrong soil.
MATTHEWS: When-Mr. Thornberry, you want us to give the 40,000 troops that General McChrystal's asked for. When do you believe we'll be able to leave Afghanistan in force? In other words, leave with a big force we have there. We'll have over 100,000 troops there, if he gets his request. When do you think we can leave?
THORNBERRY: I don't know what the timetable is. And it would be a mistake...
MATTHEWS: Well, wait a minute. We've been there eight years. Should we stay eight more years?
THORNBERRY: OK. It would be a mistake-it would be a mistake for us to set a timetable, just like it was a mistake to set ahead of time a timetable in Iraq. What I do know is General McChrystal says the next 12 to 18 months will be a critical period in deciding how this goes. And we either need to trust the commander that has been given the responsibility, that is on the ground, who is one of the best our country has...
MATTHEWS: Yes.
THORNBERRY: ... or if the president doesn't trust him, he needs to replace him. I mean, we need to either...
MATTHEWS: Well, let me ask you...
THORNBERRY: ... go one way or another.
MATTHEWS: I'm not asking you to set a timetable. I'm asking you, as a politician who represents people in this country, in a civilian-controlled situation here-which we are in this country, thank God-how long do you think we should fight this war in Afghanistan? In other words, eight years now and counting. Can we stay there another eight years, continuing to take the casualties we're taking. How long can we make this commitment?
THORNBERRY: Well, we need to make the commitment to defend the country, whatever time it takes. And whether that is in Afghanistan, Pakistan, or Yemen or Somalia, wherever al Qaeda may squirt (ph) out to, we have to have the commitment to defend ourselves.
But I believe-as, apparently, General McChrystal believes, that if we have a new strategy with the resources to back it up, we have a very good chance...
THORNBERRY: ... for success in Iraq-I mean, in Afghanistan, just as we have been having success in Iraq, despite all...
THORNBERRY: ... the naysayers and despite all the doubts about that.
MATTHEWS: OK. Well, Thank you very much, Congressman Dennis Kucinich. Sir, thank you for joining us. Thank you, Mac Thornberry of Texas.
NBC chief foreign affairs correspondent Andrea Mitchell's with us now. Andrea, thank you for joining us, my colleague. I guess we're not going to get very far with this argument. Everyone's in a fixed position now. It sounds like they made up their mind about these things 30, 40 years ago in every case.
ANDREA MITCHELL, NBC CORRESPONDENT: Indeed.
MATTHEWS: Let me ask you, what does the president need to know that he doesn't know now before he decides on whether to give General McChrystal his requested 40,000 more troops?
MITCHELL: Well, White House officials are saying to me that, in fact, go back to the Bruce Riedel report, which led to the decisions of last March. We've all been saying the conventional wisdom in Washington has been that March is now moot, that the initial Afghan strategy is now being supplanted because of the changes, the decisions on the ground, and perhaps the political realities, although they will deny that.
MATTHEWS: Yes.
MITCHELL: But in fact, if you go back to the original questions that Bruce Riedel, a former CIA and NSC official, answered-on loan to the White House-it was, How do we come up with a strategy that will disrupt and end al Qaeda's influence and protect the United States? What we want to do is get into Afghanistan and disrupt al Qaeda.
And so the questions that the president is asking, to get to your point, are, How will these various recommendations lead to our goal? That goal remains to disrupt al Qaeda, to protect the security of the United States, and to enhance regional security, as well. Those are the questions he's asking. And right now, what he's getting are answers. At least-we don't know whether he's accepting the answers, but he's getting an intelligence briefing on how it relates to Pakistan today, followed by a regional diplomatic briefing from the secretary of state and her advisers. Obviously, Richard Holbrooke and others would be part of that. And then Robert Gates would give the military's perspective.
And what has changed today is that the Pentagon announced-Geoff Morrell announced from the Pentagon today, Chris, that they've actually given the president, officially given him...
MATTHEWS: Right. I know.
MITCHELL: ... the troop recommendations.
MATTHEWS: My concern is, as an American watching this, learning that Americans are building outposts of-to be manned by 140 people, it begins to look like "Beau Geste," one of these old French Foreign Legion movies, where we're putting troops, Western troops, our guys and women, out in the middle of these outposts...
MITCHELL: Exactly.
MATTHEWS: ... to guard land, to basically control the land of Afghanistan. That's the job of Afghans.
MITCHELL: And that is not-that cannot continue. In fact, as we know, that-unit was planning to withdraw and relocate. But I asked that very question today of Barry McCaffrey, of our military analyst. When you looked at the pictures of that ravine, what the heck were American troops doing in that location? It seemed absurd on the face. He said, I don't want to second guess a commander, an experienced commander in the field, but you're absolutely correct. What he was told was they were protecting supply lines, which makes some sense.
MATTHEWS: Yes.
MITCHELL: But...
MATTHEWS: But it begins to look like...
MITCHELL: ... I cannot imagine...
MATTHEWS: Andrea...
MITCHELL: Exactly.
MATTHEWS: ... it looks like the old game of strategic hamlets. We're developing control over land mass. We're trying to rule Afghanistan because their government's a failure. We're trying to supplant and replace a failed government. We're trying to be the government, in effect, of Afghanistan. I wonder if that is a smart strategy and whether it will ever allow us to leave.
MITCHELL: And I think that that is exactly what the president is wrestling with. There are no easy answers here. The other word out of White House officials is, Don't assume that all the reporting is correct, that what Joe Biden is talking about is tantamount to withdrawing and doing it by other means...
MATTHEWS: Yes.
MITCHELL: ... manned drones from outside. That's not what he's talking about. He is still talking about a robust force of boots on the ground. I think you're going to see some building up of warlords. They're going to try to work around the central government...
MATTHEWS: Yes.
MITCHELL: ... while they're trying to enhance it, and a lot of training.
MATTHEWS: Yes, I don't think that is the Biden-my sources tell me that that is not Biden's view. His view is much more middle-of-the-road here than that, certainly.
MITCHELL: Right.
MATTHEWS: Andrea Mitchell, thank you very much, the expert.
Coming up: What President Obama needs to do in Afghanistan. We're going to talk to a veteran of the United States Senate and of the United States war in Vietnam, a man who lost three limbs in Vietnam, Max Cleland. He knows something about these wars of attrition.
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MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL. As the U.S. military begins year nine in Afghanistan-it's year nine now-the number of war dead in Operation Enduring Freedom-that's what it was called, and still is-has increased sharply. Already in 2009, there have been 239 military deaths on our side, far more than in prior years. As President Obama weighs his Afghanistan strategy, which he's doing right now, what will it mean for U.S. troops?
Max Cleland lost both his legs and an arm in Vietnam and went on to represent Georgia in the United States Senate. His new book, a hell of a book, "Heart of a Patriot: How I Found the Courage to Survive Vietnam, Walter Reed and Karl Rove." Well, that covers all the bases, Max.
Thank you very much, sir, for joining us.
MAX CLELAND (D), FORMER GEORGIA SENATOR: Thanks, Chris.
MATTHEWS: As you-it's a stirring account of what you went through, which is probably almost impossible for to you put into words, what it was like when that grenade went off and waking up and then living through the torture of the alcohol and your limbs and-oh!
Let me ask you about-let's start with what we were just talking about with Andrea Mitchell, who I respect a lot. Andrea says the president is now trying to decide whether we can achieve that particular goal we went into Afghanistan to achieve, catch bin Laden, destroy the Taliban-destroy al Qaeda, the terrorist group that attacked us on 9/11, with whatever strategy we follow.
What do you think when you look at this current situation?
CLELAND: What I think is-is a couple of things I learned in Vietnam.
First, fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man. So, if we try to fix one country with counterinsurgency and nation-building, all the Taliban-actually-excuse me-all the al Qaeda will do is move to another sanctuary. The point is, it is all about al Qaeda. It is not about Afghanistan. It is not about boots on the ground. It is not about the Taliban.
They did not attack us. Al Qaeda did. We have to go after al Qaeda. We have to kill or capture bin Laden. We have to go after al Qaeda central, which is in northwestern Pakistan. And we have to protect Pakistan's nuclear-nuclear weapons program.
The Taliban leadership actually happens to be in Pakistan, not so much in Afghanistan. So, the real question is, what's the mission? The mission is, clearly and simply, straightforwardly, go after al Qaeda wherever it is located. Right now, it is located in Pakistan. So, all the questions are about Afghanistan. Wrong questions.
MATTHEWS: You know, it is funny. And there's nothing funny about this, because you have been in combat and suffered tremendously. And, right now, I keep trying to tell myself, stop thinking about this as just a conversation.
There are men and women on posts right now in scary situations who have to get through the night tonight who are stuck out there in these outposts.
But let me ask you an ironic question. Wouldn't we be better off if al Qaeda did go back in-into Afghanistan? Then, we could just pick them off at will. They are hiding in Pakistan. Wouldn't-everybody says, well, the worst-the worst thing that could happen is that al Qaeda will go back into Afghanistan.
Great. Then just blow the hell out of them. Nobody is going to stop us. The Taliban is not going to be able to stop us. We can't bomb with impunity in Pakistan. We have got a friendly government there. If we have a hostile government in-in Afghanistan, then we can knock them off at our choosing, can't we, it seems to me?
CLELAND: The issue, if you if you go back to the first congressional resolution which was passed right after 9/11, it says we will go after those who attacked us and anybody harboring them.
If you are harboring al Qaeda, you better watch out. We are coming after, and you may get hurt...
CLELAND: ... whether that is the Taliban or Yemen or Somalia or Indonesia or any other place in the world.
Now, we-our issue is with al Qaeda. We have to keep focused on that. The war in Iran distracted-distracted the American people, compromised the American Army. Now we are a spent bullet as a nation in terms of political will. Now we are pretty much a spent bullet in-a spent bullet militarily.
We don't have, in my opinion, the option and shouldn't have particularly the option of going after a counterinsurgency and nation-building in Afghanistan for five to 10 years. No, you go after al Qaeda wherever it is. And, right now, it is in Pakistan.
And you don't necessarily have to go after them with a hell of a lot of boots on the ground. That's not the big issue. The big issue, is what is the objective? What's the military objective? And it is al Qaeda, killing or capturing them, before they kill us.
MATTHEWS: You know, sometimes, I think that people think that the more input you put, the more suffering you endure, the more troops you have, the more successful you are.
I just wonder whether the more brains you have, the better you are going to do. Here's a-in your book, you wrote-quote-"When I lost my reelection bid for the United States Senate back in 2002, my life fell apart. With the start of the war in Iraq, my own post-traumatic stress disorder came roaring back nearly 40 years after I was in combat."
You know, I remember that campaign. And I remember the sleazy campaign ran by your opponent back in 2002, where he tied you in with the enemies of our country because you voted for a couple of amendments that the labor unions wanted to allow some people at the-at the Homeland Security Department to be unionized.
And he turned that somehow into an anti-American act, because he didn't like unions.
CLELAND: No, it's not-it wasn't that at all.
MATTHEWS: What was it?
CLELAND: It was the fact that the White House actually opposed the Department of Homeland Security. Me and Senator Lieberman actually on the Governmental Affairs Committee were for a Department of Homeland Security.
The White House did not want Lieberman to get a leg up because he had been vice presidential candidate, so they shifted their view. And then they accused me of somehow compromising the president's effort for homeland security. That was bull feathers.
MATTHEWS: Right.
CLELAND: And then they linked me in with Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein. That was also bull feathers.
But it was part of the Karl Rove strategy that you go after the-you try to drive up the opposition's negatives, even if it is to take away military service. And they tried that against McKinney, and they were successful. They tried they that against me and they were successful. And they swift-boated John Kerry.
Now, the Obama campaign learned in '08 that you don't do that to an American hero, like McCain. You don't try to take away his service. And they stayed away from that, thank God.
MATTHEWS: Yes, well, they certainly-you think John McCain would learn a lesson he was dealing with dirt balls when he was dealing with the Bush crowd and Karl Rove. And, yet, he had to get back in bed with them in 2008.
Let's take a look. Here's the ad they ran against you, Max Cleland, as an incumbent and as a war veteran and hero who certainly paid a lot of price for this country. Here it is.
NARRATOR: As America faces terrorists and extremists dictators, Max Cleland runs television ads claiming he has the courage to lead. He says he supports President Bush at every opportunity. But that is not the truth.
MATTHEWS: Well, there you have it.
Let me ask you about the-how it all fits together. You talk about the-Max, about experience of these wars, Vietnam. Do they all look like Vietnam now? Or what's the difference?
CLELAND: Well, I tell you, if you build up Afghanistan, if you put in
more troops, with the sanctuary right across the right across the border,
across the mountain range, you know, and you pour in more troops, and you -
and you try to focus on counterinsurgency and nation-building, that is Vietnam.
MATTHEWS: Wow.
CLELAND: And how did that work out for us? Zippo. Nada.
So, you go-go don't go that way. You have a swamp, you focus on alligators in the swamp and not draining the swamp. That's what I'm saying. And the alligators in the swamp in that region are al Qaeda. That is bin Laden. That is al Qaeda central. And that's protecting the nuclear weapons program of Pakistan and going after the Taliban leaders, which are not in Afghanistan.
They are in southern Pakistan. So, that's what you have got to focus on.
MATTHEWS: You know, right-everything stated, every you said is right.
Thank you very much, Max Cleland.
The book is called "Heart of a Patriot." It's right here. We are showing it again, a great book. You ought to buy it. It is about America and what we have been through the last 30 years, especially this fellow. There it is.
Up next: Steve Colbert's very funny take on some very serious business, the topic at hand, Afghanistan.
You're watching HARDBALL, only on MSNBC.
MATTHEWS: Back to HARDBALL. Time for the "Sideshow."
First up: Everyone is a critic these days. Stephen Colbert last night took aim at the president on his slow decision-making on Afghanistan.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We should take the fight to al Qaeda in Afghanistan. And that's why, as president, I will make the fight against al Qaeda and the Taliban the top priority that it should be.
STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, "THE COLBERT REPORT": And Obama made it a top priority, right after banks, cars, the stimulus, health care, a dog, an herb garden...
COLBERT: ... the Olympics, and beer.
COLBERT: Now, we could go back to our old girl, Afghanistan. Well, guess what we forget? She's (EXPLETIVE DELETED) crazy.
COLBERT: That's why we left. She's moodier than a drunk hyena.
She's always broke, and she has a serious heroin problem.
MATTHEWS: All good comedy is founded on a certain hard truth.
Speaking of, the White House just released a list of 45 paintings that are now on loan at the White House. One in particular seems to encapsulate what it means to be the top decision-maker these days. Here it is, an Ed Ruscha's work. It's called, "I Think I'll"-we have got it there. Yes, no, maybe, on second thought.
It's the old Jack Benny joke. Your money or your life, demands the mugger. I'm thinking, says the miser.
Finally, remember this zinger from Democratic Congressman Alan Grayson last week?
REP. ALAN GRAYSON (D), FLORIDA: If you get sick, America, the Republican health care plan is this: Die quickly. That's right. The Republicans want you to die quickly if you get sick.
MATTHEWS: Well, of course, Grayson rebuffed those Republican calls for him to apologize. And now he's pushing back even harder with a new fund-raising e-mail.
It features a spoof of this poster for the just-out movie "The Invention of Lying." Here's Congressman Grayson's version, "The Invention of Truth-Telling"-quote-"In a town where everyone can only tell lies, he is the only one telling the truth."
Well, I think this man is riding his own wave. And he's doing well.
Now for tonight's "Big Number."
There's been a lot of comparisons between Vietnam and Afghanistan in recent months. Here is another one. Today marks eight years of war in Afghanistan. How long did Americans' involvement in the Vietnam War last? Well, from the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution on to the Paris Peace Accords, it was eight years and six months, August '64 to January '73, which makes Afghanistan now just half-a-year shy of Vietnam. America's Longest war lasted eight years and six months-tonight's disturbing "Big Number."
Up next: Yesterday, we saw President Obama's judgment in the polls, up to 56 points. Today, the Republicans are gaining some ground on the congressional front. Will sort out what it means for the midterms and whether the Democrats can really hold on to power.
That's coming up next.
You're watching HARDBALL, only on MSNBC.
BERTHA COOMBS, CNBC CORRESPONDENT: I'm Bertha Coombs with your CNBC "Market Wrap."
Stocks stalling today, really, investors taking a wait-and-see approach ahead of Alcoa's earnings, the Dow Jones industrials losing about five points, the S&P 500 inching up almost three points, and the Nasdaq up just over six.
Alcoa did kick off earnings season this afternoon with a bang. The aluminum giant surprised Wall Street, posting better-than-expected third-quarter profits, in fact, its first profit in a year. Its revenues were stronger than expected, too.
Tech pushed higher after an analyst upgrade on Cisco. Experts say the company is poised to benefit from pent-up demand in the networking area unleashed by the-an economic recovery.
And the Congressional Budget Office finished its analysis of the Senate Finance Committee's health care reform proposal. It estimates the plan will cost about $829 billion over 10 years, cutting the deficit by $81 billion in the process.
That's it from CNBC, first in business worldwide-Now back to
MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL.
We're just over a year away from the 2010 congressional elections. Are the majority Democrats on course to stay, or is the majority in trouble? And how can President Obama help his party hold power?
NBC political analyst Charlie Cook is the publisher and editor of "The Cook Political Report." And John Harris is Politico's editor in chief.
Gentlemen, look at this new number here. This is an Associated Press poll. It shows that the president's approval rating has jumped up to 56 percent, and from 50 percent over a month. Far more fascinating to me, guys, is the fact that the negative-the disapproval, which was so high after all the crazy stuff of the summer, the tea parties, the birthers, the nut bags out there, it went up to 49 percent, has dropped 10 points in a month.
That, to me, is dramatic, a 10-point drop in the president's disapproval.
Charlie Cook, your estimate of what's going on?
think that is an outlier poll. It does not look like the other data we are seeing.
The fact is, the Gallup poll is out every single day at 1:00. As of last night, it was a 51 percent approval rating. For all of last week, it was 52 percent. The week before that was 51 percent. The week before that was 52 percent. And that's sort of the thrust of what we are seeing more often.
And, so...
MATTHEWS: How about the negatives? How about negatives? How about the disapproval number? What's that doing on your polling?
COOK: His approval rating-disapproval is 40 percent, 41 percent, holding very, very, very steady. So, I'm not seeing-I'm not seeing that kind of movement. There was a little bit of an uptick right after Senator Kennedy's funeral, around the time of Senator Kennedy's funeral.
But, you know, we have-there is-I don't think there is an uptick, and there is nothing in the news that would offer a suggestion why there would be an uptick right now. I think the president has had a pretty tough couple weeks.
MATTHEWS: OK, John Harris, your assessment from these numbers coming out from Associated Press showing a 10-point drop in his disapproval and a hike in six points in his approval.
JOHN HARRIS, EDITOR IN CHIEF, POLITICO.COM: Charlie is right. It's probably an outlier, although I think you can see some of the consumer numbers ticking up a little bit, and general sense that maybe the-we avoided the worst and that an economic recovery might be on the way.
I suspect that's-if other polls start to show this, I think that's probably going to be one of the factors. And I do think there is an emerging sense that he will get something on health care. And success is rewarded with success in the polls.
MATTHEWS: Yes.
Let's take a look at the Gallup poll and this other number which I find fascinating. It shows that, after having a very big lead of double digits in what's called the generic, which, not to make it too complicated, is the simple basis question, are you going vote for a Democrat or Republican next time? Do you want the Democrats or the Republicans to run the Congress of the United States?
There it is. It is almost even. It's 46-44, which is even, basically. It had been, as recently as July, a six-point advantage for the Ds. Charlie Cook, your thoughts? Is there movement there?
COOK: I think there is, Chris. If you look at the context of when these Democratic majorities were created in 2006, 2008, you are looking at 10, 12, 15, sometimes higher Democratic advantages in the generic ballot test. And now you are looking at, you know, two percent, three, four, two percent in this Gallup poll.
The way I would look at it is that this Democratic majority was like a greenhouse where you are growing orchids and tropical plants. It was absolutely perfect growing conditions for Democrats in every conceivable way. That the greenhouse isn't here, isn't there now. And what we are seeing is an increasingly hostile environment.
The polling I'm seeing shows-there was a Heart Research poll for the Economic Policy Institute that came out a few-last week; 85 percent of the American people think we are still in a recession. So you can line up PHDs and economics all day long to say the recession may be over. Until the American people say it is over, it is not over, politically speaking.
MATTHEWS: And that helps the Republicans?
COOK: Absolutely.
MATTHEWS: Even though the Democrat have only been in for, what, nine months now?
COOK: Everybody knows that this recession started-polls show that people know this recession started under President Bush. But every single day President Obama gets a little bit more vested in the economy. And I would argue the focus on health care-they ought to go back to the sign that was in the war room in 1992. It is the economy, stupid. And what-what Bill Clinton says as a candidate, focus on the economy like a laser beam.
Every day, every minute, they're focused on health care is a day that they are not focused on creating jobs.
MATTHEWS: Yes, and I think you are dead right. By the way, I agree with that. I think the great question in politics, John Harris, is does he care about people like me. And if the president is focused on his goal of health care, and not on the thing that people are worried about right now, you wonder if he cares about people like and you me. That's the fundamental disconnect here. Your thoughts, John Harris?
HARRIS: Again, we are-when we get to 2010 next year, we are not looking at a national picture. We're looking at individual districts where Democrats are likely to-historical trends say they are going to lose. They won seats in places that were typically Republican leaning districts.
So when you see the moderate voters and even conservative leaning voters that voted Democratic, if they are concerned about the economy and if they're concerned spending in Washington, that's a very difficult environment. We are seeing it, a think a preview of that this year in Virginia.
MATTHEWS: Here is the tough call. Let's go to Virginia while you brought it up here. We have the picture of Virginia. And the Pollster.com's trend line there saws Republican Chris Christie falling down in New Jersey. He has peaked a bit too early, a couple of weeks ago, whereas Corzine is coming back, you could argue. That is going to be very close.
In Virginia, you have another close one, but it looks like McDonald has got the advantage. Charlie Cook, I think the Republicans are headed towards victory in Virginia. What do you think?
COOK: There was a window right after the Democratic primary where Creigh Deeds, the Democrat, was ahead. And then suddenly it was like the whole weight of some of the problems, the president's problems, the party's problems start coming down him. And you started seeing independents moving away from them in droves. And the-the Republican lead, McDonald's lead got real, real big.
They whacked him back and they kind of were able to crawl back into the race for a while with this thesis thing. But it is-it is a tough road to hoe. The independents are getting to be very difficult. Keep in mind, this is a group that voted Democratic for Congress by an 18 point margin in 2006. And the president's job rating is now dropping from the 60s to the mid 40s among independents. It's independents that are the challenge for Democrats right now.
MATTHEWS: Let's take a look at the fight. Here is Deed against McDonald last night.
CREIGH DEEDS (D), CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR OF VIRGINIA: Frankly, a lot of what's going on in Washington has made it very tough, in that we had a very tough August, because people were just uncomfortable with the spending. They weren't comfortable with a lot of what was going-a lot of noise that was coming out of Washington, D.C.
We are reframing this debate on Virginia. And I'm confident that if we can successfully do that, and I think we can, we are going to win this election.
MATTHEWS: John Harris, he was talking to you last night in that forum. Here is the question: can he lay off the blame on the president? That's what he seems to be doing.
HARRIS: Definitely the subtext on both sides. The Deeds people, Deeds himself, as you saw in that clip, saying what a tough year; the national climate is bad for us, in part because of decisions that Washington Democrats are making.
I think a lot national operatives are saying hey, look, what we have is a disparity in candidate skills between Deeds and McDonald, and he should look to his own campaign, his own candidates skills before blaming Obama and the Democratic Congress. Not good when you get a blame going on before the election.
MATTHEWS: It looks to me like we have a Daisy Chain here. The economy is bothering more people every day, because the feeling of a recession and the unemployment-the under-employment and the people that don't bother looking for jobs because they have given up-keeps getting worse. At the same time, they blame the president for that. Now they blame the president for the political situations in Virginia. So it is all going back to the economy.
Charlie Cook, as always, I respect your views. Although, I do like this Associated Press poll. John Harris, thank you for joining us.
Up next, who should we be fighting in Afghanistan, al Qaeda or the Taliban or both? What's the mission now? Eight years after we got in there, are we just punishing the Taliban? Are we ever going to catch bin Laden? That's a big Smerconish question.
By the way, we have the results of the Phillies/Rockies game here in Philly. It just happened. We are going to give you that when we come back. The politics of President Obama's very tricky decisions coming up. This is HARDBALL.
MATTHEWS: We're back. Time for the politics fix with Salon.com's editor in chief Joan Walsh and syndicated radio talk show host Michael Smerconish, who is also an MSNBC political contributor, and is celebrating right now, as I am-let's put the hats on. The Phillies, five to one, won the first game of the playoffs. They've got a long way to go. Ten more games to win, to win the whole thing. We've done it. It is done. Let's move on.
JOAN WALSH, SALON.COM: Congratulations.
MATTHEWS: I want to ask you, Joan and Michael-I think we all vaguely agree, although there is some disconnect here among us-if the president gets 40,000 more troops or a substantial number more troops, maybe 10,000 or whatever he agrees to, will we still be fighting in Afghanistan with a large number of troops four, eight years from now? Your answer, Joan?
WALSH: I think we will, Chris. I don't think it's enough troops to completely take over the country. But I'm not sure we have enough troops. The irony here is that we're not clear about whether we're fighting al Qaeda or the Taliban.
I heard Richard Engel say something fascinating earlier today. He was asked to compare what Obama might do with the surge, which at least MARCHINI: worked in Baghdad, in Iraq. He answered, if we were going to use the principles of the surge, we would have to make peace with Taliban. That's what we did in Iraq. We made piece with tribal leaders and warlords. There is nobody else to make peace with or to shore up in Afghanistan.
We would have to pacify-a terrible word-the whole country. We don't have enough troops to do that. I think this is a losing mission. I don't think we can pull out precipitously. But I don't want to see another 40,000 troops in there.
MATTHEWS: Michael, your thoughts about what are we doing in Afghanistan? If the president agrees to any of this troop increase, I wonder if we'll ever get out of Afghanistan, whether we're not just in there for the long term, forever.
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: There are some false sense of bravado that's creeping up in this argument, which says that if you're against the McChrystal plan of allocating 40,000 or so troops to Afghanistan that it's a sign of weakness, and you're against the troops who have already served.
I don't see it that way. I don't know what the objective is right now. I can tell you what the objective should be. It should be to go over there and kill those who were responsible for the events of September 11th.
MATTHEWS: But they're in Pakistan.
SMERCONISH: We exhausted that ability. They are in Pakistan, Chris. You know I'm a broken record on this. There's a better argument to be made for our intervention in Pakistan than there is in Afghanistan. If we completely rid Afghanistan of the al Qaeda and their Taliban supporters, but the tribal regions, the Fatah region of Pakistan is a no-man's land, then where are we? We are nowhere.
MATTHEWS: Let any go to the absurd of this, Joan; the worst-case scenario of those who say if we pull out of Afghanistan is that al Qaeda will come back in, maybe even bin Laden will come back in. I say great, G-R-E-A-T, explanation point. Then we can kill them all. We get them out in the open. We can blow the hell out of every one of them when they come back. We can have them under surveillance from the air and destroy them out, with no government in our way. The Taliban is not going to stop us. Nobody is going to stop us.
We don't have to get permission from Musharraf or Zardari or whoever it is in charge of Pakistan. We don't have to mince around. We got them. I don't understand what's so dangerous about al Qaeda being in Afghanistan rather than hiding away in the hills of Pakistan.
WALSH: I think the thought was that they established a foot hold there before and they would get another one. I think that's a really faulty conclusion. I think we-we actually are the ones who originally put al Qaeda-those foreign fighters together with the Afghan mujahedeen when we funded them to fight the Soviets. Let's remember that history lesson, which nobody ever likes to remember.
But right now, I don't like the Taliban. Look, the way they treat women is a nightmare. However, there are lots of countries that treat women poorly. What they're doing now is trying to build a nation. And what we're doing is building a nation that hates us and that's trying to get us out. I think we have no-there's no certainty that the Taliban would let al Qaeda pick up its suitcases and move back in. I think that's a really kind of a faulty premise.
MATTHEWS: I just wonder-I raised this with a Congressman the other day, he thought I was talking about some other language. I said, what moral right do we have to go into some other country and kill the rebel faction? Who are we to defend a government that just won a corrupt election and there are people fighting it, and we say, we kill anybody who fights a corrupt government. What moral right do we have to kill those people? Some day we think they might let somebody come in that country who might come after us again?
I'm just wondering about the morality of this, Michael. What's wrong with the moral question? Do we have the right to keep killing Muslims? We've been killing them for eight straight years on international television. If you turn on TV anywhere in the world right now, you see American killing Muslims. That's what we do on world television every night for eight straight years.
I think it might make us some enemies in that billion-person world once in a while. If I were a Muslim, I would say, well, those Americans just keep killing us.
SMERCONISH: The moral foundation has to be a causal connection. You need to have a causal connection between those responsible for the events of September 11 in order to continue to kill them, or have knowledge that some impending attack will take place, unless you take care of them first. That's the answer to the question.
Let me just say that if when the president stands up in three or so weeks and says here's the plan-if he doesn't reference bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri, then it won't pass my personal litmus test.
MATTHEWS: The last thing I want to hear is 10,000 more troops and a request for 40,000. Don't throw a 50-foot rope to a guy drowning 100 feet from the shore. If you believe it will work, do it. If you don't believe it, don't do it.
We'll be right back with Joan and Michael.
MATTHEWS: We're back with Joan and Michael. We just got a new CBO poll-announcement that came out that told us that the Senate bill does pass muster. It lowers the deficit over ten years. Are things starting to go the president's way? Bob Dole has endorsed health care. Arnold Schwarzenegger has endorsed it. They may pick up a couple of these senators up in Maine.
Joan, are things starting to turn toward the president? I disagree with Charlie Cook. I think that poll that shows the president's disapproval down ten points is good news for him.
WALSH: It's absolutely good news for him. Things are turning around on the health care front, which I think turns around his overall approval rating, Chris. The CBO report is big news, good news for the Democrats. So many of the Congressional Republicans have pointed to other CBO estimates of other bills that do pump up the deficit. This cuts the deficit by 81 billion.
Let me add, interestingly, Olympia Snowe is an interesting figure here, because she wants the Baucus bill to cover more people. It still leaves 25 million uninsured and to be more generous. We'll see. There's still a fight.
MATTHEWS: Michael, we'll have you on again. Thank you, Joan. Michael Smerconish, as always. Join us again tomorrow night at 5:00 and 7:00 Eastern for more HARDBALL. Right now, it's time for "THE ED SHOW" with Ed Schultz.
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Indicative Rate * AU$30 to AU$120
Travellers Rest Caravan and Camping Park is a hidden paradise. Set on 50 hectares of semi tropical forest on the Whitsunday Passage. An ideal location for visitors who want a relaxing holiday close to Airlie Beach but away from the hustle and bustle.
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Melanesian rooms are motel type, linen supplied to double bed, extra costs for more linen if supplied.
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"The Standard Suspension enters production in January 2013 and may delay delivery."
"The Standard Suspension enters production in January 2013 and may delay delivery."
I know there is no search feature to find things but that link will take you to the extensive discussion.
I wish there was a search feature because I have gone as far back as page 26 to find a previous post and I'm not ever doing that again! :/
Although, going back to page 40 does feel like your opening a time capsule! :D
I think it's Brain H or Timo..... one of them is good about pulling up past threads. I was surprised this one hadn't been done already. Google does work for search this forum.
Yes, just include "site:www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums" in a Search using any search engine.
Speaking of which, there's a new "anonymous" search tool on the block: StartPage, or Ixquick outside the U.S. It uses its own IP to search Google, then strips all ads and ID info and includes the output in your results.


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"Was that a goat?"
Was it? The car hit something, and Patrick Warburton wants to know. Because it is just so outrageous that you can be driving down the road on your way to a Florida airport with something to do, like save a planeload of Gator fans from being incinerated by a bomb in a trunk, when all of a sudden this goddamned goat comes out of nowhere. You strike it, or it strikes you. You aren't quite sure. But you see in the rearview that the goat is fine; your car is less so; your equilibrium remains, but only as a facade now. And instead of being able to scream at the top of your lungs "I don't like the fact that I am so very nervous and anxious about the world and that we've just hit a goat! I'm barely holding it together!" all you can do is utter: "Was that a goat?"
Come on, Puddy. You know it was a goat. Just admit that you are suddenly very aware of how little control over your environment you have. The goat is a message.
Sometimes Emily just wants to sing Ace of Base at the top of her lungs. When we were in New York she karaoke'd the hell out of "The Sign". She's a Capricorn. Capricorns are "independent" (read: stubborn). They accomplish what they want to accomplish and sometimes you are in the way.
The Universe is a Capricorn. And you, Patrick Warburton? Sometimes you are in the way.
I was up too late one night last week. I was up too late because I had to listen to music I had just downloaded from iTunes. I have never spent so much money on music before. Some people spend a lot on music, regularly; I am not one of them. But I couldn't stop listening and buying. I had been thinking about the music all day, ever since Sweetney had offered up a couple of songs on Blip. One was called "No Children", from an album called Tallahassee that is about a couple who move to Florida and they are so very nervous and anxious about the world and are barely holding it all together.
The other song she offered, by the same group, was a cover of "The Sign"."
Over and over and over and over. I listened to the music over and over.
The Universe is a Capricorn; the band is The Mountain Goats.
The music was like a gift. Well, yes, I paid for it, but still it was like flowers on Valentine's Day when you never get flowers on Valentine's Day. The Universe is a Capricorn, but just because she hits your car and leaves you a bit bewildered doesn't mean that you aren't better off for it. You are aware of things.
I saw this Tweet from Heather Spohr while I was listening to the music: "They changed the diagnosis from pneumonia to RSV. So her illness is more serious, but she is stable. Phew." Tracking back through Twitter I found this one: "If my sad little hospitalized baby doesn't make you want to donate to my March of Dimes team you are made of" and then it abruptly cut off. Clicking through to the picture I was punched in the face, my car was hit, and I was enlightened. "stone. Or poo." That's what I would be made of.
Was that a goat?
Suddenly my Dionysian gluttony, my musical insomnia, was put into a little bit of perspective. I was so happy to have this music. I had no regrets about spending the money on it.
But if I could do that much just because it made me happy, could I not do a little bit more, to help someone? To help someone I know?
I'm not suggesting that I applied some rule of charity to my conduct. I don't give programmatically. Sometimes I am inspired to charity, or to gifts, or to whatever. Sometimes I am not. I have no rule about it.
Was that a goat?
It was a goat. The Universe is a Capricorn. "The Sign" playing over and over again; another song about a couple self-destructing in Florida, where, Puddy will tell you, goats just hit your car while you are on your way to the airport to be about your business of saving Gator fans, a couple with no children and the consequences of that fact on their relationship, alternating with "The Sign" in my ears.
My wallet was still next to my laptop. It was easy to click through to Heather's March of Dimes Team Page and offer up just a little bit more than I had spent on myself.
Heather is raising money for a walk on April 25th (although you'd think they'd call it a "march", right?) She is just over $300 shy of her goal. You don't have to donate money to her, to the March of Dimes, to anyone at all.
But if the Universe hits your car while you are driving to a Florida airport to save some Gator fans maybe you can do more than just ask: "Was that a goat?"


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Inner Mongolia (Mongolian: , Öbür mongɣul; Chinese: 内蒙古; pinyin: Nèi Měnggǔ; officially romanized to Nei Mongol) is the Mongol autonomous region of the People's Republic of China, located in the country's north.
Inner Mongolia borders, from east to west, the provinces of Heilongjiang, Jilin, Liaoning, Hebei, Shanxi, Shaanxi, Ningxia Hui Autonomous Region, and Gansu, while to the north it borders Mongolia and Russia. It is the third-largest subdivision of China spanning about 1,200,000 km² (463,000 sq mi) or 12% of China's land area. It has a population of about 24 million as of 2004. The capital is Hohhot.
The majority of the population in the region are Han Chinese, with a substantial Mongol minority. The official languages are Standard Mandarin and Mongolian, the latter written in the classical alphabet.
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If you have an opinion to share on the Alamance-Burlington School System�s proposed transfer policy, time is running out before the school board votes on it.
The school board is scheduled to vote on the issue Monday night.
Normally, the meeting would he held the fourth Monday of the month, on Feb. 25. The meeting was moved to this Monday based on scheduling issues.
The meeting will be at the school system�s offices at 1712 Vaughan Road, Burlington, beginning at 6:30 p.m.
Changes are designed to minimize transfers to schools that are crowded. They also put in place a 365-day waiting period before a student who transfers from one school to another can play sports.
Board member Patsy Simpson has argued for deleting reasons other than health and safety from the policy as potential reasons transfers would be considered. As the policy stands, other listed reasons include documented plans for the family to move to another attendance zone and students� academic and emotional needs.
Other board members have said the reasons should stay as possible guidelines.


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