text:
Friday, September 5, 2008
Updating TV Schedules Live Now: Sprint Cup And Nationwide Series Racing On Sunday
With the race weekend rained-out Friday and Saturday in Richmond, NASCAR has moved both the Sprint Cup and the Nationwide Series races to Sunday.
The Cup race will be run at 1PM Eastern Time on ESPN live. We are checking on the pre-race programming schedules for ESPN, SPEED and ESPN2 for that day and will have updates shortly.
The Nationwide Series race will be run at 7PM Sunday on ESPN2. Normally, this series has a pre-race show but no support programming from SPEED.
Craftsman Truck Series schedule remains the same as the Trucks are at Gateway for a Saturday afternoon race.
We are sorting through all the email and the media coverage and will be posting new TV schedules for all the NASCAR programs shortly. Neither the ESPN or the SPEEDtv website had been changed to reflect the new schedules as of 8PM Friday.
Please feel free to offer your opinion of NASCAR's decision on this post. Some feel the TV equipment and all the Transporters should never have made the trip with the weather forecast well in advance that this rain event was going to happen on these days. What is your opinion?
(photo courtesy of Mike Serota/Getty Images)
To add your comment, just click on the COMMENTS button below and follow the easy instructions. The rules for posting are located on the right side of the main page. Thanks for taking the time to stop by The Daly Planet.
52 comments:
- Geez said...
This is probably the best thing they could do. Having 100,000 people out there during a tropical storm isn't to safe.
- September 5, 2008 at 7:45 PM
- Anonymous said...
Hello John
I was wondering about a comment they made in a nascar.com article about the NW race that it will be run at 7 after the sprint cup race and after the stands have been cleared?? Are they racing in front of an empty track??
- September 5, 2008 at 7:47 PM
- Daly Planet Editor said...
I am still trying to figure out what Hunter meant by that.
If anyone has a clue, let us know.
- September 5, 2008 at 7:48 PM
- Skip said...
I'm sure that just means that everyone has to leave, and have their tickets re-scanned back in, since it will be different tickets for the two races.
- September 5, 2008 at 7:48 PM
- Daly Planet Editor said...
If they try to do that it is going to be one huge disaster. As if there is going to be a big crowd of other folks waiting to come in for the Nationwide race....
This is going to be interesting!
- September 5, 2008 at 7:51 PM
- Daly Planet Editor said...
Couple of folks emailing in to say RaceDay is going to be 11AM Sunday, but I am still waiting on the new SPEED schedule.
- September 5, 2008 at 7:58 PM
- Bruce Simmons said...
I'm almost confused though as to one particular statement made about the race schedule.
After the Cup race, they are going to wait until the stands are cleared to start the Nationwide race afterwards.
Ah... I see you guys are already chatting about it here...
It is going to be a disaster. Moving that many people probably won't work and they'll probably just relinquish at some point to get the race going.
Can't wait to see how that all boils down!
- September 5, 2008 at 8:02 PM
- haus20 said...
from what i heard on dialed in, they are going to clear the stands and have everyone that has nationwide tickets go through the gates again...
According to J.H., the cup race length average 3:05 at richmond, so he is figuring around 4:30 the race will be done and they will clear the speedway and then have folks re-enter...
If you are a stick and ball person, it will be the same concept as a day night double header. fTictet only good for current event.
- September 5, 2008 at 8:03 PM
- haus20 said...
Bruce, now that you mention it, this should be quite a logistical feat...100K is quite a bit different from 25 or 30 k at a baseball game.
- September 5, 2008 at 8:04 PM
- Skip said...
I don't know how bad it will be - I'm not sure how many fans that only have a ticket for one of the races will be for the nationwide race. I would think it would be the other way around.
Of course, I know people who only buy tickets to the truck races for Texas, but that makes sense, because those are the best races.
- September 5, 2008 at 8:07 PM
- Daly Planet Editor said...
The difference is that a facility this size will not be able to do that for hours, even in the most orderly fashion.
I have no idea what message Hunter was trying to send.
Anybody got any idea?
- September 5, 2008 at 8:11 PM
- glenc1 said...
do they do that for double headers? I had no idea...not being a stick & ball person...
Richmond always runs separate tickets. I gotta say it--they are usually exceptionally organized--it may sound crazy, but I bet they can pull it off. Whether they *ought* to or not is another question....you don't have to buy a NW ticket to get a Cup ticket like some tracks, but you have access to better seats & renewable packages that way. There *are*, believe it or not, a number of people, particularly locals, who go to the NW race & not the Cup. Sometimes you see companies with events there (where they're all wearing their company T shirts, etc.) Also, people who already have their tickets; they are reserved in certain sections, but those will be different seats than Cup.
Personally, I think I'd say all rules are off and not bother, but...this IS the ISC we're talking about, greed is their middle name....
- September 5, 2008 at 8:13 PM
- Anonymous said...
Any news on the TSN status for us Canadians? I'd imagine TSN2 would show the cup race now, assuming they weren't already committed to something Sunday at 1pm.
- September 5, 2008 at 8:13 PM
- Anonymous said...
As a veteran of hurricanes, tornadoes & grass fires - I'm pleased that NASCAR made the decision to put the race off till Sunday. The "locals" are gonna have enough problems without cars trying to get to a closed track & getting caught out on the highways in the event the storms cause tornadoes & flooding. The roads need to be kept clear for people who choose to move far inland & 1st responders.
As to some people saying that the trucks & equipment shouldn't have been put in place, well, those same people would have been screaming if Hanna fizzled or made a turn towards somewhere else and the race could have been run on time.
So - they made the choice to go on with getting things in place. What else could the networks & NASCAR do?
- September 5, 2008 at 8:14 PM
- Anonymous said...
Got my answer straight from the source (oddly enough...) from TSN.ca
"The Chevy Rock & Roll 400 Sprint Cup Series race is rescheduled for 1 p.m. ET Sunday, while the Emerson Radio 250 Nationwide Series event is slated for later in the evening at 7 p.m. Both races will be broadcast on TSN2."
- September 5, 2008 at 8:15 PM
- red said...
well, this ought to be one hot mess. good luck to all those nascar VOLUNTEERS who take tickets and monitor the stands: i suspect they're in for a face full on sunday.
- September 5, 2008 at 8:16 PM
- Anonymous said...
I have no idea what message Hunter was trying to send.
Anybody got any idea?
September 5, 2008 8:11 PM
Neither does he, JD -
this is the same guy who said the meeting was about keeping the fans happy in a bad economy & all The Drivers came out of the meeting saying they were told to shut up (about the CoT, tires etc) & drive. LOL
- September 5, 2008 at 8:20 PM
- glenc1 said...
you could probably empty in less than an hour. There are a lot of exits. Getting them far enough away to stage and then letting them *back* in--that would be the hard part. I'm guessing they have some kind of plan....if they every had to evacuate for a terrorist threat or something, I bet they've thought about this. BTW, in recent years the NW race population is about 50,000, but no doubt this will be less as people have to go to work in the AM.
- September 5, 2008 at 8:21 PM
- allisong said...
I'm not sure why you don't understand about why they would need to clear the stands and let NW ticket holders in. If I've bought a ticket to the NW race for a certain seat, how else am I going to be able to use it? Particularly if the cup race is sold out?
It's not like it hasn't been done before. I remember a weekend in Dover that had the Busch race run early on Sunday morning before the cup race.
- September 5, 2008 at 8:22 PM
- Daly Planet Editor said...
I don't know if you are thinking stick-and-ball, but this is not a stadium.
Just getting a full house to walk out is going to be wild. You know how many fans hang around after the race? Especially after a couple of cocktails?
The track has all the concessions and souvenir stands and drink stations inside the facility after the gates.
I just wondered if Hunter was saying that for a reason. Otherwise, why not just let anyone stay for the Nationwide Series race that wants to do so.
The other big problem is that there is no way to clean the place. If they let the fans go home, there is going to be some wonderful debris making its way down to the track.
I really just don't get this one.
- September 5, 2008 at 8:25 PM
- Rockin Rich said...
Hooray!!!! Finally, a race that will start shortly after 1:00 PM.
I hope that the Nielson numbers come back with a major increase over previous races. Maybe if there is such an increase, a message may get delivered by a source that ESPN, and NASCAR respect. Whatever they care, or don't care, about as far as racing is concerned, they do care about the number of "eyes" that are captured during a race.
I would sure like to see a return to 1:00 PM race starts for at least some of the schedule. I am sympathetic to the "left coast", and their seemingly second class citizen status as far as afternoon sporting events starting times. I can't imagine trying to get geared up, and in the mood for a 10:00 AM football game or race start.
Let the Pacific time zone races start at a reasonable time for the people that live in that zone. Let's just get the "right coast" races back to their historically most popular starting times. In addition to ESPN & NASCAR capturing more eyes, maybe tracks will also fill more seats????
- September 5, 2008 at 8:27 PM
- Daly Planet Editor said...
That is right, the minor event before the major full house event.
That is why this is so different. It is the minor event after the Cup race. So if you have tickets to both you have to wait in line to leave, go outside and then scan your new ticket and then go back inside? That is going to be fun.
- September 5, 2008 at 8:27 PM
- majorshouse said...
I think it will be really interesting to see if Jim Hunter clarifies his statement to see what it really meant. I think that NASCAR was wise for postponing the races until Sunday.
- September 5, 2008 at 8:31 PM
- allisong said...
But like I said, what about the NW only ticket holders? Their right to the seat they bought their ticket for has to be protected. It's not like the only people who bought tickets to the NW race also have cup tickets. If I'm making my way up to Row 23 Seat whatever, I don't want to find Joe six-pack and his buddies camped there wanting to just hang out and watch the next race.
- September 5, 2008 at 8:44 PM
- Tracy said...
Well, I"m here, and it's already a mess. I kept calling the RIR number that was supposed to be updated, and it kept saying (even after the alleged 6 p.m. update) that the races were still on at the regular time. The only way we found out was a cop at a gate told us today was off around 6:30. Didn't find out until after 7 that the weekend had been pushed to Sunday.
We have ticket to both races, but can't stay for the NW. Too late - and I love the NW racing. More than Cup to be honest.
RVs are parked all over the tiny yards around here. Big wind, and it won't get pretty. Already all kinds of wrecks on Laburnum. Why didn't they call this when they knew Hannah was coming days ago?
- September 5, 2008 at 8:47 PM
- Daly Planet Editor said...
You were right. The RIR guys say they are going to clear the track crowd and then start the Nationwide Series race.
They anticipate a 4:40PM end to the Cup race and say they are going to empty the track and clear the grandstands.
So, that is the plan. Nationwide ticker holders will be let in as soon as the grandstands are clear.
Did I mention that should be fun to watch?
- September 5, 2008 at 8:54 PM
- glenc1 said...
I've been going to Richmond for nearly 10 years. Some years, both spring and fall, sometimes just one of them, but always did both races (haven't been in a couple years due to rising hotel prices...) It vacates remarkably fast, and that's without them really trying. And then you're all stuck in the traffic, lol. And the parking lot is not all paved, so that will be tricky and muddy.
Some fans 'hang out' but their numbers are not great. Most of them want to go to VL and watch all the photos, usually the die-hards. The SPEED set is outside the track. I've never seen a lot of drunks just hanging out.
But what I'm saying is, every stadium and arena in the US probably now has plans in place for situations that might arise--what if you had a bomb threat and had to vacate, search and let people back in? I'm just saying that I bet they have a plan (whether it will work or not...we shall see.) Another thing is, a lot of the inside workers are released with 10 laps to go to help with other things, they just wouldn't do that this time.
Personally, I think it's foolish and I wouldn't try. But like I said, ISC=greed.
- September 5, 2008 at 8:56 PM
- Vicky D said...
I'm going to love seeing Nascar clear the track, then watch as the NW ticket holders line up to have their tickets scanned and are let in. Talk about direction!
- September 5, 2008 at 8:57 PM
- Anonymous said...
OK Guys, this is not that complicated.
First, the reason for emptying the stands is that not everyone that attends the Cup Race has a ticket for the NW Race. If you let non-paid Cup Race viewers to stay for free, how do you decide who sits in the seat the NW ticket holder holds? How do you justify to the NW ticket holder they had to pay and the Cup viewer doesn't? Hence you have to empty the stands, Kabish?
Now they could have the Cup Race ticket holders that have a NW Race immediately reenter after passing through the exit. Then allow the NW Race Only Ticket holders enter after, as all seats are assigned.
- September 5, 2008 at 9:07 PM
- Newracefan said...
If RaceDay is 2 hours that means Wendy can do our favorite part- Walking the grid. JD do you know if there is any type of contract issue preventing her for doing this if ESPN has no pre-race show?
Tracy stay safe and dry!
- September 5, 2008 at 9:09 PM
- glenc1 said...
scanned? Vicki, they weren't that high tech last time I was there, unless they've upgraded. I know they don't at Dover and the Glen, also ISC tracks. They just tear your stub, the old fashioned way!
- September 5, 2008 at 9:10 PM
- Anonymous said...
NASCAR really didn't have a choice in postponing the races. I don't think the tv ratings will improve since they are competing with both baseball and some football. I was also wondering if Speed will change the time of viewing the ARCA race on Sunday; maybe showing it on another day,like they do with replays of Sprint races. I wish they would replay the Nationwide races.
- September 5, 2008 at 9:10 PM
- glenc1 said...
anon 9:07, just an FYI, only the front stretch/sides are assigned, the rest in General admission, but I don't think it changes the scenario much. I wouldn't call it uncomplicated though...
- September 5, 2008 at 9:16 PM
- Dot said...
Boy, this is going to be a cluster ..... I hope someone will be taping the mass exodus so we TV viewers can watch the action. Where is everyone going to park if both series are running on the same day?
I read on another site that the bathroom situation there leaves alot to be desired. Post race drunks vs pre race drunks, otta be fun. Bring your Depends race fans.
@ Rockin Rich, I am glad the race is starting early, just like the good ol' days. I'm ready to race at 10am, because I'm a true blue fan, not a casual viewer.
@Glenc1, LVMS scans their tix, don't know if all SMI tracks do. At least Bruton is in the 21st century.
- September 5, 2008 at 9:16 PM
- glenc1 said...
dot, they have lots of restrooms just outside the track area, and a lot inside--not an issue any more than any arena. Well, except the doors stick sometimes, lol, I almost got trapped in there once. *Outside* the track where everyone parks, yes, and it can be disgusting; I won't even go there, lol.
it doesn't surprise me that SMI is ahead in a technical way...I don't even think ISC's tickets have bar codes on them.
- September 5, 2008 at 9:30 PM
- haus20 said...
I am 99% sure that my tickets were scanned at Charlotte last year.
- September 5, 2008 at 9:40 PM
- Daly Planet Editor said...
Still working on the SPEED and ESPN stuff. Looks like RaceDay at 11AM, no pre-race and straight into the Cup event at 1PM and then 6:30PM for Countdown and then the Nationwide Series at 7PM.
SPEED's Sunday night stuff stays the same.
- September 5, 2008 at 9:44 PM
- glenc1 said...
about the parking...while there are not a ton of people going to the NW race only, it will be something they'll have to plan. If you don't get there by noonish on a regular race day, you're out in the fairgrounds with a shuttle. The convention center parking I think you can get with a shuttle for $5, so if you don't care about the tailgating, it's not a big deal. But just *getting* the cars parked on a normal day is kinda nightmarish...especially after they added seats (there was talk of paving it all, don't think they ever did...). But this time hopefully the fans won't be as concerned about the tailgating since it's not a night race (people argue with the troopers trying to get more space for their little kingdoms...) Did you know you can rent your own porta-potty for about $100, lol? The stuff you learn...
Anyways, I know we've gotten a bit 'off track' from broadcasting...appreciate JD's indulgence. I do hope they show us some of the transition on TV. I have friends there but I don't know if they're staying for NW.
- September 5, 2008 at 9:54 PM
- Anonymous said...
No way ESPN moves NFL Sunday Countdown on the opening weekend for a NASCAR race.
- September 5, 2008 at 10:02 PM
- Anonymous said...
For a NASCAR pre-race show that is...
- September 5, 2008 at 10:03 PM
- darbar said...
Doing what Nascar has proposed will be a logistical nightmare. Once, during a race at Michigan a number of years ago, they had to clear the stands because of severe weather. It seemed to take forever. With these events, what does one do about parking? Where do they park the people coming in for the Nationwide race, seeing as probably all the parking will be taken by the Cup ticket holders. This will be a nightmare for the local law enforcement, hoping they will be available seeing how these storms could reek havoc on the area and their services might be needed elsewhere.
- September 5, 2008 at 10:06 PM
- Daly Planet Editor said...
OK, here goes...
No pre-race show for the Cup race. Event coverage starts at 1PM. Can you say NFL Countdown?
Still waiting on RaceDay confirmation, lots of logistics going on right now.
Tradin' Paint, NASCAR Performance and NASCAR in a Hurry airing as scheduled on Saturday from 12:30 - 2PM.
Trackside on Sat at 11:30PM in place of Victory Lane. That show will air on Sunday at 8PM as usual.
More to follow...
- September 5, 2008 at 10:11 PM
- Anonymous said...
Disney should be forced to air the Cup race on ABC whenever it runs. It is a slap in the face to NASCAR fans to have a WNBA "game" keeping the race from millions of viewers without cable. If it was a real sport, then maybe, but this is the WNBA. Come on....
- September 5, 2008 at 10:11 PM
- glenc1 said...
I think anon is right--I can't see racing over football happening, how ever repetitive all the pregame shows are...
my team already won this week so I'm good...lol.
darbar, not sure if our posts crossed...but it is an issue. I'm thinking maybe 75% of NW fans will be at the Cup race first--wild guess.
They do get cops from all over the area--hadn't really thought about that. It will depend on how bad the rain slams them. But everyone understands how much this race means to the local economy.
- September 5, 2008 at 10:14 PM
- Anonymous said...
WNBA is a sport - like it or not.
They have a contract to air a game on Sunday. Besides a NBA game is only two hours vs NASCAR at four hours.
- September 5, 2008 at 10:26 PM
- haus20 said...
There are two issues with the crowd exiting the track.
First of all where are they going to go? I suspect that a good majority of the people watching the Cup race have nationwide tickets as well so it isn't as if the crowd will be actually leaving the track premesis.
Secondly, with that being established, people have a tendency to congregate near the entrance/exit so the first people out will have to be almost herded away from the exit/entrance in order to make room for the remaining crowd inside to exit as well.
Fortunately they have 2.5 hours to figure this out.
- September 5, 2008 at 10:29 PM
- Anonymous said...
wouldn't a NNS ticket-holder want to get to the track early - perhaps hours early to take in the flavor, buy souveniers and have a hot dog and a beer. With this scenario that seems impossible. Interesting.
- September 5, 2008 at 10:30 PM
- glenc1 said...
haus, I think most will go to their cars--the parking lot will be chaos, but that's normal, lol. The shuttle people--I'm *assuming* (however dangerously...) that they are going to tell people to go to area X Y or Z. There are some places--the souvie trailers (outside the track if they're not already headed out...) and the vendor areas, the amplitheater, there are also the clubs--air conditioned, and they're only used for paid events so after the Cup race they may be available.
anon 10:30...These areas are all outside the ticketed area of the track, so if they really want to they can hang out there while they're waiting for the Cup people to exit.
they are along the frontstretch, but outside the fence.
- September 5, 2008 at 10:40 PM
- Daly Planet Editor said...
New TV schedules for Saturday and Sunday are up on the right side of the main page.
Thanks for your patience. More info when it becomes available.
- September 5, 2008 at 10:41 PM
- haus20 said...
thx jd...this is kind of fun talking about possible logistic issues...who would've imagined that on a friday evening!
- September 5, 2008 at 10:46 PM
- glenc1 said...
thanks for the schedule JD. If I were ABC, I might use that extra time to preview some of their new shows, since it's the beginning of the season. But it'll probably be reruns.
Hopefully this is okay, but if anyone wants to get the gist of the facility, go to rir.com and look for seating charts, facility map. You can get the lay of the land.
- September 5, 2008 at 10:49 PM
- Daly Planet Editor said...
Hey all, there is a new post will the new TV line-ups (some changed) for Saturday and Sunday.
Refresh your browser or click on the Daly Planet logo at the top of the main page.
Thanks for hangin in there with me!
- September 5, 2008 at 11:20 PM


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Sunday, July 19, 2009
Comic 611: Destructive Behavior
Not that there aren't problems; for one thing, this "disaster voyeurism" as a concept is not so new as Randall may believe; Neil e-mails me to point out that George Carlin (one of the most popular stand-ups of the last few decades, of course) had a super similar concept in his 2005 "Life is Worth Losing" TV special. Read it yourself; go down to the last really long paragraph (or just ctr+f and look for "fire"). I don't think Randall deliberately copied it, of course, I just want to point out that it's not such a clever or new idea. Obviously, Carlin does much better things with it.
Then of course there's Randy's textbook "but wait, there's MORE" continuing to add dialog after the punchline. In this case it's that pesky "entirely different conversations" line. Why? Why does it exist? What does it add? You have Mr. Hat going off on crazy rants about hunting men on horseback and you have to end your comic with "WELL, GUESS HE'S JUST HAVING HIS OWN CONVERSATION, HUH" and it just brings down the level of the humor so much.
A little while ago I remember writing that Mr. Hat was basically a terrorist, and that seems to still be true in full force. What happened to him being just a classy asshole? Whatever, I can't be too picky I guess.
I've said before that I hate it when Mr. Hat stories just vaguely reference funny things he has done without showing us or telling us what they were; so I am glad that at least here Randall had to use a modicum of creativity and tell us what WACKY antics Mr. Hat was up to.
Many thanks to Mal (mal from xkcdsucks) for pointing this next part out in the comments last time:
Apparently there's this webcomic called "Sheldon" ? I dunno, I had never heard of it. But in any case, a comic from a few days ago bore a striking similarity to a certain xkcd from a few months ago. See the relevant Sheldon and the xkcd yourself. Now this phenomenon is nothing new to readers of xkcd sucks - ahem, cough, ahem - but what comes next makes the story different. The author of Sheldon, in a blog post, acknowledged that his comic was really similar to the xkcd, similar enough that it was reasonable to be suspicious. Read that post. How classy is that?
I wish Randall would do something like that when he copied jokes. If he did, I would not hold anything against him. I believe - usually - that the mistake was wholly unintentional. But when Randall refuses to admit that his comic is so damn close to say, an SMBC from the week earlier, he just looks like a dick. I hope he sees that post on Sheldon and sees how damn classy the author looks when he writes it.
stay tuned later tonight for an announcement about crazy upcoming guest posts.
40 comments:
- Randall MunroeJuly 19, 2009 at 4:43 PM
Everyone below this post is a faggot.ReplyDelete
- Doctor HorribleJuly 19, 2009 at 4:45 PM
- AnonymousJuly 19, 2009 at 4:52 PM
Man, I want Chaotic Neutral BHG back!ReplyDelete
Everyone above this post except for Anonymous at 4:52 is a faggot.ReplyDelete
I'll never understand why Randall, a professional homorologist, ALWAYS explains his joke in the last sentence. It happened with the giraffe-IM-talk joke, and like a million others. If he'd stop doing that, many of them would go from actively bad strips to just more mildly crappy webcomics in a sea of mildly crappy webcomics.ReplyDelete
I forgot to put in the word "placid" :(ReplyDelete
Anyway: yeah, I more or less agree with you, here. (Which makes for a dull comment, but nonetheless.) Usually I'm more lenient on the thing-after-the-punchline thing, but here I can agree that it's a bit clunky. There's got to have been something witty she could have said there instead.
- WilhelmJuly 19, 2009 at 5:23 PM
Just like Tim Buckley, a man known for raping humor itself, Randall believes that his audience are a bunch of morons who need everything spelled out to them.
"Hi people! Here's the joke for today. Oh and to not leave any idiots out there in the cold, the joke is funny because [insert reason]."
Notice the subtle irony here.
Hahah Wilhelm. Nicely played.ReplyDelete
I liked this comic. Though all your suggestions would have improved it.
- AnonymousJuly 19, 2009 at 5:38 PM
Yeah, but Tim Buckley DOES need to explain his joke.ReplyDelete
Because all his viewers are morons.
- AnonymousJuly 19, 2009 at 5:44 PM
Tim Fuckley tells jokes?ReplyDelete
- AnonymousJuly 19, 2009 at 5:55 PM
HURRAY! I'm a faggot!ReplyDelete
What do I win? An evening out with Rob or something?
Oh, right, the comic. Ummm... I agree with... everything Carl said.
Weird, that. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO MY HEAD, CARL?
That lends itself to an iconic statement about Carl needing to evacuate my cranium, but I, for one, will not make such an anti-intellectual joke.
I'd compare it to a high school freshman ending a paper with "In conclusion"ReplyDelete
I don't think he does it because he thinks his readers are 'tards (though they are surely are). He just does it because he's a numbers guy trying to do the words with story and the art and the man people are complicated.
Willhelm, that'd be a lot better of a point on your part if I didn't write it for you two comics ago.ReplyDelete
- B^CKLEYJuly 19, 2009 at 6:08 PM
Tim BuckleyReplyDelete
more like
Dim Fuckley
Tim Buckley more likeReplyDelete
Ethan MacManus
- WilhelmJuly 19, 2009 at 6:33 PM
@Dr. HorribleReplyDelete
I just went back to see if you had made that point in your guest post, and you never actually wrote that. You never said why Buckley explained his jokes, only that he did. But don't worry, if I ever repeat a point you've made, I'll be sure to give to the e-props you so crave.
This comment has been removed by the author.ReplyDelete
Holy fucking shit, are you actually still talking about Dr. Horrible? Holy fucking shit. Holy fucking shit.ReplyDelete
You know what, when in Rome...ReplyDelete
FUCK you Dr. Horrible. Fuck you.
You betrayed us in the WORST way possible. I hope you die.
If you ever post on this blog again I will show up where you live and strangle you with your own small intestine.
(hey, this is fun! let's carry it over to the next thread as well)
Hey Dr. Horrible, think about what you post before you hit the fucking post button. We're laughing at you every time we find a Dr. Horrible post consisting of nothing but "This post has been removed by the author." like you did the last five fucking times YukYuk called you a shithead.ReplyDelete
In fact, just stop fucking posting altogether. If you really feel the need to, go to echochamber.me and post there.
- AnonymousJuly 19, 2009 at 8:42 PM
LEAVE DR HORRIBLE ALONE!!11!1!!!ReplyDelete
/chris crocker
Guys this is neat and refreshing and hilarious and totally worth carrying over to the next 20 comment threads.ReplyDelete
- AnonymousJuly 19, 2009 at 10:34 PM
You bet your sweet bippy!ReplyDelete
Hmm, I need to update my slang a tad.
- RealistJuly 19, 2009 at 10:59 PM
I like the post-punch-line thing. I admit I can't describe exactly why--it adds to the rhythm of the conversation. And as I've probably said 10 times before on this blog, it's also something that qwantz does a lot, hypocrite.ReplyDelete
Qwantz does it qwantifiably differently, and at least half of the point there is that he is not following the traditional narrative structure/rhythm of a joke or comic.ReplyDelete
- AnonymousJuly 20, 2009 at 12:07 AM
People who make hate-blogs are insecure, and apparently some of the people that comment on them are homophobes. And children that just learned the word "fuck." And people who can't hold arguments in real life so they hold them on the internet so they can hide behind anonymity.ReplyDelete
Rob, I'm dissapointed that you didn't say 'qwantzifiably'.ReplyDelete
- dragon2041July 20, 2009 at 5:20 AM
Sheldon's pretty cool. Yeah, it's not exactly a high quality comic, but it strikes me as a sort of pseudo-calvin and hobbes.ReplyDelete
Randall is just writes alot and that really messes up what are kind of cut and dry ideas he has and sort of makes them more into scenes from Kevin Smith movies than straight jokes.ReplyDelete
Oh come on, now. George Carlin riffs on disaster voyeurism years ago and that makes anyone else that riffs on it get points taken away for not being absolutely original? I hadn't realized that in order to be funny you had to make jokes about topics that absolutely no one had joked about before.ReplyDelete
It's one thing if Randall copies his own joke, or copies a joke from a comic you suspect he read a week earlier, but to have to be completely original in the face of years of comedic examinations of the human condition or you're ripe for mocking is just too high a bar.
- AnonymousJuly 20, 2009 at 8:07 AM
The "What was that" was sarcastic, a way of steering the conversation to let her know what he'd done.ReplyDelete
Fuck you Ink, I clearly said "I don't think Randall deliberately copied it, of course." My point, if you had taken two seconds to read it rather than just started yelling, was that this is an old idea, and that anyone who is like "Woah, Randall, that's so true, how do you think of these new thoughts that no one has ever thought of before" is being a dick. The point is that it's an old idea, nothing more.ReplyDelete
Fuck you right back. I read the whole entry before posting. Doesn't change that your pointing out that it's not a brand new idea follows "Not that there aren't problems;" implying that it's a problem that this isn't a fresh, unmocked concept.ReplyDelete
Then you suggest that just because Randall made a comic about it that he believes it's a new concept. That's pure speculation on your end backed up by nothing. Perhaps he doesn't feel the need to shy away from a topic someone else might have made a different joke about in the past. You know, like pretty much every comic writer does.
Yeah, it is a problem. It's an old idea. It's a problem when your readers look at your comic and say "wow, sounds just like that George Carlin quote" and then e-mail me about it.ReplyDelete
Mr. Hat is always about being crazy and wacky and doing things differently from other people. I think Randall means everything he does to be strange, unusual, and new.
fuck you a thousand times.
guys can you please stop with the public sexReplyDelete
- AnonymousJuly 21, 2009 at 4:55 AM
Why, Amanda?ReplyDelete
Does it... excite you?
Perhaps, dear cuddlefish... Perhaps.ReplyDelete
I disagree, I thought the extra comment itself was the real joke, as lacking in literary value (ie this joke could have gone in -any- comic) the insanity aspect was amusing.ReplyDelete
It's MUCH older than Carlin. Back in high school debate, one Kritik that could be run on arguments that ended in nuclear was Disaster Porn, or D-Porn. I believe it was Baudrillard (would have to look it up) who discussed it, but basically a number of postmodern authors have noted how disaster pornography is used by the media, how it stunts empathy, is about schadenfreude, etc. It's old.ReplyDelete


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Michelle HalsellAlumni, Class of 2000
Michelle is the Chief Executive Officer and a co-founder of Missing Pixel. For the past ten years, Michelle has been working with documentary filmmakers and producing interactive media. She has produced websites and CD-Roms for award winning films, including Stanley Nelson's "The Black Press", and has also worked as a co-producer on the ITVS-funded PBS series, "The Digital Divide." In addition to her production credits, Michelle was also selected to create a DVD-enhanced television prototype for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting's Digital Roadshow. Missing Pixel continues this work with their acceptance and participation in the 2002 AFI Enhanced TV Workshop. Throughout her career Michelle has shown a commitment to producing cultural content and addressing the needs of both non-profit and arts organizations. Some of her other Producer credits include: "Ancient Nubia", a five-part interactive television series; the Black Legacies Exhibit of the National Center of Afro-American Artists; and Healthlinks, a technology outreach project funded by Star Schools Grant from the U.S. Department of Education. Michelle also administered a Bell Atlantic technology grant for the Harlem School of the Arts. In addition, she has presented to audiences ranging from Harvard University to the PBS Board of Directors.


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For some reason, it's perfectly fine if I have the same breakfast of cereal and orange juice every Monday through Friday for years, but I can't stand to see my husband suffer from breakfast boredom. So, after he had been eating these Savory Breakfast Muffins for weeks, I wanted to change it up and introduce something sweet, simple and full of juicy, plump fruit.
Over the weekend, I mixed up a batch of these scrumptious apple cinnamon muffins, and as they baked the cinnamon aroma filled our apartment and made me SO eager for my first bite!
Fortunately for my waistline, Mark took the rest of the muffins to the office, but after a few "test bites" each, we were in total apple-cinnamon heaven. Big chunks of fresh apple rested inside the muffin, surrounded by warm, fluffy cinnamon-sugar dough and topped with a crumbly butter-sugar mixture.
These muffins were even so good that he didn't mind the frilly pink cupcake liners!
I love to try delicious, homemade breakfasts for my guy to take the office instead of shake-and-pour oatmeal, and it looks like we found a winner in these muffins! They give him the warm, filling morning meal and apple-cinnamon flavor he loves, and they're super simple for me to make the weekend before.
If you have any ideas or links you'd like to share for portable, yummy breakfast recipes, feel free to share them with me in the comments, and I just might give 'em a try!
Craving more? Keep in touch on Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest and Instagram for new post updates and more. You can also check out my FAQ page, or contact me with any questions or inquiries!


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From 1984 until mid 2012, Forward Wisconsin, Inc was the state of Wisconsin's official nonprofit marketing entity. Policy changes caused Forward Wisconsin, Inc. to be dissolved. At the urging of local economic development groups in order to continue providing the data needed by economic developers, the Wisconsin Economic Development Institute, Inc. (WEDI) agreed to maintain the data portions of Forward Wisconsin's website.
Consequently, we provide resources for businesses looking to either open a new location, to expand an existing business in Wisconsin or to start a new business. Click here for business cost comparisons among Midwestern states.
Click here to start your search for profiles of Wisconsin regions, communities, and available buildings and sites in Wisconsin.


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|Winter Term 2014 Chamber Music - 2218 - MUEN 245
Prerequisites/Notes: Students may not register for ensemble study using Voyager; registration will be handled by ensemble directors at the beginning of each term
Catalog Description : A study of ensemble playing through repertoire selected according to the interests and capability of the students. A maximum of 6 units, beyond departmental requirements, may apply to degree requirements. May be repeated for credit.
Attributes: Fine Arts Div GER (01cr), Foundation/Gateway Course


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By JULIE JAG
LONDON – In a whirl of color and sound bites of familiar tunes by British stars, London said goodbye to the Olympics.
Sunday's closing ceremonies packed in the slightly stale stars and the crowds, filling the 80,000-seat Olympic stadium fuller than a steak-and-ale pie. Yet, that fanfare and the excitement over the torch being passed to Rio de Janeiro in 2016, paled in comparison to the Games themselves.
Perhaps it's because this is the city's third go-round with the Olympics, or my first time covering them live, but London seemed to know the script by heart. Here were some of the highlights:
Best Athletes in the Best Venues
The number of dream matchups that play out during a short 17-day span is mind boggling for someone who hasn't been to an Olympics before. Every day I was here I felt like I saw one epic sporting event and missed three or four more.
I saw Serena Williams, probably at the top of her career, completely dismantle Maria Sharapova in the intimate atmosphere that is Wimbledon. A week later I went to Wembley, the historic soccer stadium, to watch the USA women's team get its sweet revenge and a gold medal against Japan. In between, I crammed into a press box to glimpse Usain Bolt proving he really is the fastest man alive and snuck into swimming to see Michael Phelps get a step closer to the Olympic medals record. That list doesn't touch the memorable moments from swimming, diving, equestrian, boxing, wrestling, taekwondo, volleyball, basketball and more that have sadly begun to blur together.
Giddy over Girl Power
Women had more of an influence on these Games than any other. The U.S. sent a higher number of women than men for the first time and they repaid the effort with far more medals than their male counterparts. So did the women of China and Russia. But that's not what made this Olympics one of girl power. That had more to do their lasting impact.
Gabby Douglas stood out for more than her hair and may have altered the sport of gymnastics as a result. Gold medal beach volleyball players Kerri Walsh and Misty May-Treanor gave a clinic in how far a strong bond, bolstered by some couples therapy, can take a team. And Claressa Shields and Marlen Esparza made a big impact by winning medals in women's boxing, a new sport this Games, to show women can be tough and feminine and to keep the U.S. from its first-ever boxing shutout.
And that's just for starters. The maturity, grace and freakishly fast swimming of 17-year-old Missy Franklin and the spunk of the U.S.'s first judo medalist Kayla Harrison made a lasting impression. So did the picture of a Saudi Arabian woman running the 800, marking the first time that country allowed a woman to represent it in the Olympics.
Brits Break Out the Olympic Spirit
It turns out the Olympic Spirit does exist, and not just in the text of the International Olympic Committee's charter or the words of an official's speech.
Though there had been some grumbling about the cost of hosting the Games during an economic downturn, the British turned out in droves to support "Team GB." When local sweetheart Jessica Ennis won the heptathlon, they created more noise than a fleet of jumbo jets. But they didn't limit their applause to the home team, [which is good since last-minute tickets weren't available to foreign fans], giving rousing support to any valiant effort.
Nor did the British limit their goodwill to the stadiums, which seemed to take even them by surprise. In one press conference, a British reporter asked a panel of IOC and London Organizing Committee of the Olympic Games [LOCOG] about the troubling trend of people actually talking to each other on the Tube, as the underground railway is called.
"I would like to unreservedly apologize to you for the outburst of excitement and commeraderie on the Tube," Sebastian Coe, the LOCOG chair, responded in typically wry humor. He added, s"I think it's fantastic."
The pleasantries may not last long. One local reporter suggested they might be over before Sunday night's dousing of the flame since two popular soccer teams with little love for each other, Manchester City and Chelsea, began their preseason Sunday afternoon.
Still, one can hope that the effects, like the careers of the many aging stars brought out for the closing ceremonies, will linger.


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Beam Efforts Power No. 6 Huskers to Win
Columbus, Ohio - The No. 6 Nebraska women's gymnastics team held off a late surge by the No. 19 Ohio State Buckeyes to earn a 196.150-195.975 win on Friday night in Columbus. The Huskers (2-1, 2-1 Big Ten) used several key performances early and a clutch performance on beam to stave off the Buckeyes (2-2, 1-1 Big Ten).
"We had a few uncharacteristic things that hurt us early," Head Coach Dan Kendig said. "There was some nervousness and some little landings that hurt a bit, and that allowed Ohio State to get back in the meet. Beam was the hero again tonight. We needed all five of our final routines to hit, and the girls did. The team knew we were in a battle, and with the pressure on, the girls still hit routines on beam. That was huge."
The Huskers were led by big performances from upperclassmen Janelle Giblin, Brittany Skinner and Emily Wong. Giblin paved the way for Nebraska, hitting an early 9.90 on bars to secure the event title for the returning All-American. The senior added a key 9.825 late on beam to finish fifth and help the Huskers to victory. Giblin also tied for third on vault with teammate Jessie DeZiel at 9.875. Skinner tied for the vault title, posting a 9.925 to help the Huskers to their highest vault score this season. Wong added a solid performance for the Huskers, taking second on beam (9.90) and bars (9.875).
Nebraska began the evening on bars, scoring a 49.025. The Huskers got progressively stronger with each competitor on the event, beginning with DeZiel's 9.80 on the evening. Wong continued the uptick in scoring, adding a 9.875 on another solid performance. NU's lineup culminated in a stellar performance from returning All-American Giblin, who hit her most complete bars routine this season to earn a 9.90.
The Buckeyes picked up a 49.050 on vault in their first rotation, led by a 9.925 from Sarah Miller. After one event, Ohio State narrowly led Nebraska by a score of 49.050-49.025.
The Big Red moved to vault in their second rotation, earning their highest score on the event this season at 49.300. Nebraska was led by senior Brittany Skinner, who announced her return to the lineup with a big 9.925. DeZiel and Giblin added identical marks of 9.875, and Jennifer Lauer earned a 9.825.
Ohio State struggled on bars in the second rotation, picking up a 48.675. Nebraska stole the lead from OSU after two events, taking a 98.325-97.725 advantage that they would not surrender for the remainder of the meet.
The Huskers took to floor in their second-to-last rotation, battling their way to a 48.800. Wong paced the Huskers with a 9.875, while freshman Hollie Blanske earned a 9.775. Jamie Schleppenbach returned to the NU lineup after resting last week, picking up a 9.725. Jennifer Lauer also captured a 9.725 for the Huskers.
Ohio State posted a 49.075 on beam in their third rotation, paced by Sarah Miller's 9.95. With only rotation remaining, the Huskers held a 147.125-146.800 lead over the Buckeyes.
Nebraska moved to beam needing a solid performance to secure their victory. NU's nationally-ranked beam squad delievered a clutch effort, earning a team mark of 49.025. Steady performances by Wong (9.90), Lauer (9.85) and Giblin (9.825) proved key in the Huskers' efforts to defeat the Buckeyes.
OSU posted a 49.175 in their final rotation on floor, but it wouldn't be enough to overcome the Big Red. Nebraska finished with a 196.150, edging by the Buckeyes' score of 195.975 and earning their second win of the season.
Nebraska will return to Lincoln next weekend to kick off a two-week home stand, welcoming Illinois to the Bob Devaney Sports Center on Friday, Feb. 1. The match is slated for a 6 p.m. CST start. Fans can purchase tickets online at Huskers.com or by calling the Nebraska Ticket Office at 1-800-8BIGRED.
Name Vault Bars Beam Floor All-Around
Jordyn Beck --- --- --- --- ---
Hollie Blanske --- 9.725 9.475 9.775 ---
Jessie DeZiel 9.875 9.80 9.70 9.60 38.975
Janelle Giblin 9.875 9.90 9.825 --- ---
Kailyn Hawkins --- --- --- --- ---
Amanda Lauer --- --- --- --- ---
Jennifer Lauer 9.825 9.675 9.85 9.725 39.075
Ariel Martin --- --- --- --- ---
Madison McConkey --- --- --- --- ---
Kassandra Nathe --- 9.725 9.75 --- ---
Jamie Schleppenbach --- --- --- 9.725 ---
Brittany Skinner 9.925 9.75 (ex.) 9.775 (ex.) --- ---
Desire' Stephens 9.80 --- --- 9.70 ---
Emily Wong 9.80 9.875 9.90 9.875 39.450
Team Score Vault Bars Beam Floor Total
Nebraska 49.300 49.025 49.025 48.800 196.150
Ohio State 49.050 48.675 49.075 49.175 195.975


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The next time you see a father out shopping with his kids, you might need to check your assumptions.
"I'll get the, 'Oh, look, it's a dad! That's so sweet!' "says Jonathan Heisey-Grove, a stay-at-home father of two young boys in Alexandria, Va., who is pretty sure the other person assumes he's just giving Mom a break for the day. In fact, he's part of a growing number of fathers who are minding the kids full time while their wives support the family and who say societal expectations are not keeping up with their reality.
He and his wife, Dawn, a public health analyst, didn't exactly plan for Jonathan to be a stay-at-home parent to Egan, 5, and Zane, who's 4 months old. The Heisey-Groves were both working full time when he lost his job as a graphic designer two years ago. That also ended the company day care. Dawn says Jonathan stayed home at first just to save money on child care.
"And suddenly the world just became much calmer and quieter. Egan wasn't as upset and he wasn't as tense anymore. And our relationship, even though we were stressed about not having money, we weren't rushing around when both of us got home. And so, it was just a happier place," she says.
Dawn was surprised — and happy — to discover two colleagues whose husbands are also stay-at-home fathers. But she does feel like she's missing out sometimes.
"I showed up for the preschool graduation, and they all looked at me like, 'Who are you?' And I kind of felt like the bad mom moment. Like, he's got the Dad of the Year award, and I'm kind of sitting on the sidelines a little bit," she says.
Mostly, the Heisey-Groves and others say they are doing what works best for them to create happy lives for their children. And they hope to change long entrenched attitudes about the proper role of mothers and fathers.
The Heisey-Groves' arrangement is still an outlier. The Census Bureau finds that about 3.5 percent of stay-at-home parents are fathers, though that's doubled in a decade. But Stephanie Coontz of the Council on Contemporary Families calls the figure vastly underreported. It doesn't include the many fathers who do some work yet are their children's primary caregivers, a trend that cuts across class and income.
"Men today are now reporting higher levels of work-family conflict than women are," Coontz says. They feel "not just pressure, but the desire to be more involved in family life and child care and housework and cooking. And at the same time, all of the polls are showing that women are now just as likely as men to say that they want to have challenging careers."
This is all evident at a place where Jonathan has found camaraderie — a daddy's playgroup in Arlington, Va., part of a national support network.
"I didn't want to be the dad who was never around," says the host, Mark Bildner, who's been home with his children for five years. He chose to leave an all-consuming job in the tech industry and is proud that his decision has allowed his wife to advance.
"She took a position at her company that involved a lot of travel, last-minute work, late nights and so forth," he says. "And I have some understanding of how it feels to be in that position, so I try to be as supportive as I can."
For others, the decision over who stays home with the kids is an economic one. Coontz points out that 28 percent of women now outearn their husbands, a trend driven by the fact that more women than men now earn college degrees.
We put out a Facebook query looking for breadwinner wives and stay-at-home fathers, and many of the hundreds who replied report being happy with their "role reversal." But others say it can be tough on a relationship, and some wrote of the challenge of reshaping their personal notion of self-worth and in bucking social norms.
A few excerpts:
- David Patrick in Grapevine, Texas, writes that on his third date with his now wife, Monica, she asked if he'd ever considered being a stay-at-home father. He was a struggling actor who'd worked waiting tables and in sales, and his answer was, "Yes!" Today, he stays home with their two young girls, and Monica is an OB-GYN. "In her practice of six doctors (all women) only two of the husbands are currently employed outside the home," Patrick writes. "Monica's father was a doctor, and her mother was a homemaker, so my mother-in-law and I joke about how hard it is to be a doctor's wife. I love it."
- Chris Bublik of Orlando, Fla., has been a full-time father for six years and writes that he's grateful to be able to shape his children's lives this way. "But there are real impacts to us as men," he writes, "impacts that none of us expected as we reveled in those first few months of sweats and grubby t-shirts, and not shaving...and the 4:30 dash to clean up the house so our wives won't think we're completely useless (you stay-at-home daddies know exactly what I mean). Feelings of inferiority, loss of self-esteem, self-respect."
- Alison Gary of Greenbelt, Md., writes that her husband, Karl, has been home with their daughter for four years. "His friends think he has nothing to do all day and want to come over and party on federal holidays, and find him lame when he's too tired to hang out on a Friday night. I received some pushback as well. ... I even had a fellow mom tell me she couldn't believe I trusted my husband with my daughter all day."
So what of that notion — that so heats up the blogosphere — that women are somehow better equipped to tend to hearth and home? "I don't buy that at all," says sociologist Coontz.
She says for 150 years both men and women have been trained to fulfill certain, distinct roles and to explicitly not be responsible for others. Spotting dirt on the floor? Changing a diaper? "As long as a woman is going to be there doing it, and actually, often telling him how to do it better, why should he learn to do it?" Coontz says. "We really have to make an effort to let the other person succeed at something they've never done before and to give them the chance to get comfortable with it."
Coontz says for generations, children have been conditioned early for their respective gender roles — boys, for example, have been discouraged when they express interest in cooking or dolls. ("And they all do," Coontz says, "especially when dads are not looking. We've done studies on that!")
So perhaps it's fitting to close with this reply to NPR's Facebook query on stay-at-home fathers. Katie Shell writes: "My son wants to be one when he grows up."
Well into the 20th century, an American working woman could be fired for getting married. That's because the role of breadwinner was reserved for husbands. That was enshrined in state laws as late as the 1970s.
But since the '80s, more women than men have been graduating from college. Today, more than a quarter of married working women earn more than their spouse, and more breadwinner wives can mean more dads home with the kids. As part of our series on the changing lives of women, here's NPR's Jennifer Ludden.
JENNIFER LUDDEN, BYLINE: A sunny spring afternoon in Alexandria, Va., and it's time to meet the school bus.
JONATHAN HEISEY-GROVE: There we go.
LUDDEN: Jonathan Heisey-Grove pops open a stroller with one hand and expertly transfers fussy, 4-month-old Zane into it.
JONATHAN HEISEY-GROVE: OK, buddy, come on. Shhh.
LUDDEN: They stroll up a winding, suburban block to a corner where two moms also wait.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Bus is coming...
LUDDEN: Five-year-old Egan is first off the bus with a run, and a big bear hug.
JONATHAN HEISEY-GROVE: Egan! What's up, buddy? Oh, yeah, hi! How are you?
LUDDEN: Jonathan and his wife, Dawn, a public health analyst, didn't exactly plan for him to be a stay-at-home parent. They were both working full time when Jonathan lost his job as a graphic designer, two years ago. That also ended the company day care. Back in their townhouse, Dawn says Jonathan stayed home full time at first just to save money on child care.
DAWN HEISEY-GROVE: And suddenly, the world just became much calmer and quieter. And Egan wasn't as upset, and he wasn't as tense, anymore. And our relationship, I think, even though we were stressed about not having money, we weren't rushing around when both of us got home. And so it was just a happier place.
LUDDEN: Jonathan agrees. He was crazed, trying to balance work and kids. He talks while cradling baby Zane, bouncing on a large, blue ball to try and get him to sleep.
JONATHAN HEISEY-GROVE: I missed out on doing this kind of thing. I would do it, but I would be too worried about work to be able to really focus on my child, at that point.
LUDDEN: Dawn was surprised - and happy - to discover two colleagues whose husbands are also stay-at-home dads. But when I ask if she feels she's missing out on anything, I don't even finish the sentence before she's nodding her head.
DAWN HEISEY-GROVE: Like, I showed up for the preschool graduation, and they all looked at me like, who are you? (Laughing) And I kind of felt like, the bad mom moment. Like, he's got the Dad of the Year Award, and I'm kind of sitting on the sidelines a little bit.
LUDDEN: More hurtful is when even family members don't quite get their choice. When paying a dinner bill once, Jonathan's dad chastised him for "spending your wife's money." And Dawn's younger brother recently wondered why she doesn't just tell her husband to get a job. Jonathan says societal expectations have not kept pace with their reality. He sees it out shopping with the kids.
JONATHAN HEISEY-GROVE: I get the, oh, look, it's a dad! Oh, that's so sweet. And my own assumptions are saying, yeah, they just think it's just one day.
LUDDEN: Still, he's found people who can relate...
LUDDEN: ...at the Wednesday morning playgroup of D.C. Metro Dads.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Hey, how are you doing?
JONATHAN HEISEY-GROVE: Hey there, good. How are you doing?
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Good to see you.
JONATHAN HEISEY-GROVE: Good to see you.
LUDDEN: The front hall of this home in Arlington, Va., is lined with shoes, backpacks, strollers.
CARL NELSON: The first time I got here and saw 15 other dads, I was kind of blown away.
LUDDEN: Carl Nelson is standing in the kitchen, 6-month-old Jack tucked under one arm, football-style. Before discovering this, his only organized social outlet had been a mother's playgroup, which he still goes to now and then.
NELSON: I generally look for another conversation, when it steers toward summer swimwear. (Laughing) However, you know, a discussion of nursing and other issues, I'm perfectly comfortable with. I get to see those details on a daily basis with my wife. So I've actually participated in those conversations, in a productive way.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: Kiss me on the hair.
MARK BILDNER: On the hair?
LUDDEN: The host of this get-together used to be a workaholic in the tech industry. But Mark Bildner says losing his parents changed his attitude. He's been a full-time dad, by choice, for five years now and is proud to have helped his wife advance her career.
BILDNER: She took a position at her company that involved a lot of travel, last-minute work, late nights and so-forth. And I have some understanding of how it feels to be in that position, so I try to be as supportive as I can.
STEPHANIE COONTZ: Men today are now reporting higher levels of work-family conflict than women are.
LUDDEN: Stephanie Coontz is with the Council on Contemporary Families. She says men's ideals have shifted closer to what many women have long felt.
COONTZ: Not just pressure but desire, to be more involved in family life and child care and housework and cooking. And at the same time, all of the polls are showing that women are now just as likely as men to say that they want to have challenging careers.
LUDDEN: The census finds fewer than 4 percent of stay-at-home parents are dads, though that has doubled in a decade. But Coontz says the number's vastly underreported. It doesn't include the many men who do some work but are still their children's primary caregiver, a trend that cuts across class and income.
COONTZ: The place where you see the greatest sharing of child care, interestingly enough, is in blue-collar and union workers who often work split shifts and then trade off the child care.
LUDDEN: So what of the contention that so heats up the blogosphere, that women are somehow better suited to manage house and home? Coontz will have none of it. For 150 years, she says, men have been trained not to detect dirt on the floor or a child's needs.
COONTZ: So we really have to make an effort to let the other person succeed at something they've never done before, and to give them the chance to get comfortable with it.
JONATHAN HEISEY-GROVE: That's right.
LUDDEN: Back home, changing Zane's diaper, Jonathan Heisey-Grove does indeed coo, smile and baby talk with the best of them.
LUDDEN: He says the impact of what he's doing struck him one day when a college kid in the neighborhood stopped his car and rolled down the window. He told Jonathan, "I wish my father had played with me as much as you play with your son."
JONATHAN HEISEY-GROVE: And it became another point in my development as a stay-at-home dad that OK, this is really important, and people see it.
DAWN HEISEY-GROVE: I think that our view's changing. Every time we interact with somebody, we're changing their perception of what is...
JONATHAN HEISEY-GROVE: True.
DAWN HEISEY-GROVE: ...appropriate gender roles or parenting roles.
LUDDEN: By the time their boys grow up and have kids, they say, maybe - just maybe - no one will be talking about that at all.
Jennifer Ludden, NPR News.
GREENE: And there is much more from our series on the changing lives of women, online.
Our She Works sign generator has over 1,000 submissions, illustrating various approaches women have for operating in the workplace. One says, "No is a complete sentence."
GREENE: Another, "No is not an option."
INSKEEP: There's "don't bring in baked goods, if you want the corner office."
GREENE: And "there's more to life than work." You can see those for yourself, and make your own sign, at NPR.org/SheWorks.
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