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Keynote address by the 1st Chairman.
Ladies and gentlemen, firstly, it gives me great first pleasure to welcome all of you, the first ever delegates to the FWSoEaAF, the 1st World Summit of Everything and Anything First.
I am, as all of you would have firstly noticed, the 1st self elected Chairman of this 1st World Summit.
Allow me to firstly tell you what this 1st World Summit is all about.
Ladies and gentlemen, all of us would remember anything and everything first, wouldn't we? Our first kiss. Our first sexual intercourse. And to an unfortunate few of us - or fortunate, depending on which side, front or back, we are on - our first sodomy. I mean, there are people who do not even bath or do the big business for two days after their first sodomy. That is how important and memorable our first experience is.
Rod Stewart says, the first cut is the deepest. And of course, the first sodomy could be the tightest. I digress.
With full realisation that the first will always be the most memorable and important - and hopefully would never be the last - this summit is organised to celebrate everything and anything first. Welcome therefore to the 1st (ever) World Summit of Everything and Anything First.
Some of you might want to firstly know why my country is hosting this 1st World Summit. Well, the answer is simply because we are trend setting. We hold record after record of the world's first ever this and that.
Consider this firstly.
We are the first to have a fugitive who apparently ran away from our country - allegedly frightened by the misdeeds that he had done - and who nobody apparently knows where he is although he is not in any way hiding from anybody. He is definitely the first ever fugitive who is not hiding.
He could be seen on the internet, in reports and videos, attending seminars and giving lectures. Hotshots have even gone to his house to have dinner with him and his family. However, our authorities are at a lost as to where he exactly is. And this is the same authorities which could track semen from some asses even when there was no "clinical finding" of penetration of the very same ass. That's a world first I am sure.
Speaking of semen, we are also the first country with medical forensic experts who think semen in an ass, without "clinical finding of penetration" constitutes evidence of anal sex.
That means, firstly, there could be anal sex without penetration. Then, it also means that semen from Malaysians could not only swim but also fly upon ejaculation right into an asshole. That, I am sure too, is a first.
In case you all hadn't noticed, we are also the first to have the tallest twin towers. Yes. Not one, but two tallest towers in the world. Speaking of which, we are now going to build another one, which will be taller by 11 storey than the twins.
Which brings me to another first. Yes. We are the first to include an erection into our national budget. This erection is not the government's. It is the private sector's erection. Our Honourable Prime Minister has said it - that it is not his idea but the idea of Permodalan Nasional Berhad. However, it is included in the government's proposed budget. How and why? Don't ask me. I do not have the first clue. Whatever it is, our national budget is the first to include the erection of a building in it.
To top it up, we are also the first country to have come out with a video guide to committing suicide by self strangulation. And we are also the first to propound the ground breaking and earth shattering rule that every forensic pathologist who theorises a death by a fall from high buildings must firstly experience such a fall before making such a theory. Soon, we will pioneer a rule to say every forensic pathologist must first die before making any theory on the death of any person.
While talking about our government initiatives, one cannot miss the fact that our government is the first when it comes to coining acronyms. We have so far had NKRA; GTP: 10MP; ETP; NEM; SRI and finally NKEA. If Minister Idris Jala later introduces the Integrated Key Economics Agenda, I am afraid IKEA would take umbrage and refer the matter to the KLHC, namely, the Kuala Lumpur High Court.
Feeling left out, our DPM cum EM had on 20th October 2010 launched the Excellent, Brilliant, Successful, Intelligent, Smart, Youth dan Young (EBSIS 2Y) programme. Yes, EBSIS2Y. The fact that the Bahasa Malaysia word "dan" is infused among the litany of the evil foreign language is also a first in the world, mind you. According to a lady friend of mine, the EBSIS2Y would be in direct competition with the Beautiful, Intelligent, Talented, Clever and Horny - in short, BITCH - movement. Which led a guy friend of mine to quip, WTFDICAAJSMTM, which stands for "What The Fork Do I Care About Acronyms Just Show Me The Money."
In so far as television shows are concerned, we also hold several firsts. Firstly, we have the highest ratio of reality-tv shows per capita anywhere in the universe. Yes, you name it and we have it. We search for anything and everything in our reality tv shows, from footballers, to racers, to boyfriends and girlfriends.
Our annual talent-search show, namely, Akademi Fantasia, holds the award for the 1st talent-search show with the most talent-less participants on Earth.
Speaking of which, we also are the first nation to have a reality-tv show to search for an "imam" (a Muslim who leads prayers in a group). Yes. No other country has done that but us.
Soon we will be searching for our sanity in our reality-tv shows. That will undoubtedly be the first.
Speaking of racers, we should also speak about cars. We are the first country to have, as our national car, a car which come from other nation. This is particularly unique to us. We have a re-badge Mitsubishi as our "national car". Even after 24 years of existence, our national car "manufacturer" still cannot build a truly national car and it still have to re-badge a Japanese car and sell it as its own. And thus Lancer becomes Inspira. It surely is not very Inspira-tional, isn't it guys?
In the legal arena, we have so many firsts as well, Ladies and Gentlemen. We have a person who is caught and charged for sodomy twice! He was imprisoned for his first alleged sodomy and soon after he came out from prison, he was caught yet again and charged yet again.
Amazing! If this happens in other countries, I am sure the people would say, "yea, rite, and semen could fly!". Oh, but then again, here, it has been proven that semen could fly. Oh dear.
Then we have our cyber authority charging the writer of a satire for publishing things which are not true although the content code of that very authority permits satires! LOL! That is definitely a first (and this statement is NOT a satire!). By the way, which satires are true? ROFL!
Speaking of funny things, we are also the first country ever to have banned cartoon books.
Speaking of banning things, we are also the first country to have confirmed that the devil actually looks like the one portrayed in the Manchester United club logo. And so we banned Muslims from wearing any jerseys or whatever which depicts Manchester United logo because we are certain the devil is the one which is portrayed by the logo.
In the gastronomical aspect of things, we are the first country to have held a campaign to eat durians and muttons at the same place and on the same day. And it was at the Parliament House no less. In fact we are also the first to have slaughtered a cow at the Parliament House. Has anybody else ever done that Ladies and Gentlemen? I take your gaping wide mouth as a sign of awe, thank you.
We are also the first country to restructure one of our mega corporations into the biggest plantation company in the world which would then promptly made a loss of about 900 million! It surely looks like small is better in our country.
Speaking of corporations, we also have a corporation which is making billions in turnover and profits over time but is still being "compensated" by our government for not being allowed to raise toll rates. In other countries, people are compensated when they make losses. But we are the first to compensate entities when they are making billions!
Despite being lumbered with the responsibility of paying these "compensations," we rush to extend this corporation's concessions for longer periods of time. By doing that we have to pay them further "compensations" in the event toll rates are not raised.
Then we are also the first country to pioneer this negotiation technique whereby a certain pre-set price would be increased - as opposed to actually decrease - after negotiation. This negotiation technique has been used for the cost of our new palace, for instance, where the pre-set cost was about 450 million but it was increased to about 800 million after employing this new and pioneering negotiation technique. No other country has managed to do this. We are the first!
Socially, we are also the first to have to remind our fellow citizens that they are not immigrants or "pendatangs". Lol!
Over to the south, if a certain former Premier had his way, we would be the first to have built a crooked bridge.
Speaking of whom, that very same former Premier, who had always boasted to everybody that his rule was among the most democratic rule on Earth, had created a first of sorts when recently he expressed his admiration for Communist China.
First class.
Ladies and Gentlemen, a round of applause for everything and anything first.


text:
Mrs. Copay: "Hi, I need Dr. Grumpy to call in some medication for my back. I also need him to order physical therapy and an MRI."
Annie: "Hang on, let me look up your chart... it looks like we haven't seen you since 2008..."
Mrs. Copay: "That's correct."
Annie: "... and at that time you were here for a completely different issue. It looks like Dr. Grumpy has never seen you for back problems."
Mrs. Copay. "Whatever. Let me give you the number for my pharmacy..."
Annie: "Look, he can't give you medications or order anything for a condition he hasn't seen you for before. Especially when it's been 3 years since you were last here at all. You'll need to make an appointment."
Mrs. Copay: "Well, my insurance copay is now $35, and I don't want to spend that just to come see him."
Annie: "We can't do anything without seeing you."
Mrs. Copay: "Why doesn't anyone care about patients anymore? All you people want is my money." (hangs up).

subset: commoncrawl


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Lake snows will affect the lake shore communities at times through much of tonight, before the snow band makes a more decided push toward the north, as winds will become more southwesterly late tonight into Tuesday & Wednesday. Since Erie is mainly frozen over, I do not expect much to come off Erie Tuesday into Wednesday, so it should be pretty sunny & mainly snow free, but it will bitterly cold! Best chance for accumulating snows will be across far Northern Orleans, Monroe, & Wayne counties over the next 12 to 18 hours. Much of Eastern Wayne MAY be affected by the snow band for awhile tonight, but most of the viewing area will not see much snow over the next couple days, just a lot of cold.
Temperatures will be plunging to around or just below 0 tonight, & then only rebounding into the low teens for highs Tuesday, & then well into the teens Wednesday with the help of some sunshine, which will be nice, but will not help much. Wind chills Warnings are up for most of the viewing area for late tonight through much of Tuesday morning, as feel like readings will likely be dropping into the -25 to -15 range, & possibly as low as -30 at times during this time frame!! Dangerous to say the least! Have a winter safely kit in the car if you will be doing any significant travel in the next day or two, just in case your vehicle breaks down...
Have a great rest of your Monday & do what you can to stay warm WNY!


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The following information is provided by the Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation
Blue River: July 23. Elevation normal, water 86 and clear. Smallmouth and spotted bass fair on soft plastic baits around structure and on topwater lures in open water early morning and late evening. Channel catfish fair on stinkbait and chicken liver around current in large pools. Flathead catfish fair on live sunfish in large, deep pools at night. Sunfish excellent on mealworms, crickets and small jigs in slack water areas. Report Submitted by Matt Gamble, fisheries biologist, Blue River Public Fishing and Hunting Area.
Broken Bow: July 21. Water mid to high 90s. Bass schooling early and late. White bass being caught on white crankbaits at 10-20 ft. around points and ridges and on shaky heads with watermelon seed finesse worms in plum or green around rock walls and points. Catfish good on juglines baited with cut bait. Crappie fair on jigs and spoons moving to deeper water. Report submitted by Dru Polk, game warden stationed in McCurtain County.
Eufaula: July 21. Elevation normal, water stained. Largemouth bass fair on crankbaits and plastic baits around points. White bass fair on jigs around bridges and points off bridges. Blue catfish good on shad and liver drifting the flats and rocky areas. Crappie fair on minnows and jigs around standing timber and under bridges. Report submitted by Ed Rodebush, game warden stationed in McIntosh County.
Hugo: July 21. Elevation normal. Crappie fair to good on minnows and jigs along the river channel. Largemouth bass fair on soft plastic lures in and around the vegetation and brush. Catfish fair on worms and cut bait below the dam. Report submitted by Jay Harvey, game warden stationed in Choctaw and Bryan counties.
Konawa: July 22. Elevation 1/2 ft. above normal, water 86 and clear. Largemouth bass good on topwater lures at 5-10 ft. around points and moss beds early and late. Channel catfish good on cut shad at 5-15 ft. around points and the south cove. Report submitted by Daryl Howser, game warden stationed in Seminole County.
Lower Mountain Fork: July 21. The next trout stocking date is July 25 and then every three weeks thereafter. Fly fishing patterns include olive and brown hoppers (size 10 and 12), stimulators, light cahills or PMD's (size 12-14). Pheasant tail with flashback (size 18-20). Small midges (size 20-22) in red, brown and copper. Also try crayfish patterns, streamers and ants. The hexagenias should be working in early evening in the Evening Hole area. Report submitted by Mark Hannah, game warden stationed in McCurtain County.
McGee Creek: July 21. Elevation normal, water 83 and clear. Largemouth bass fair to good on soft plastic lures and rattling crankbaits at 6-20 ft. and fair to good on shad colored topwater lures in open water in schooling fish early and late. Crappie fair to good on minnows over trees right off creek channels. White bass fair to good on crankbaits at 28-35 ft. Report submitted by Joe Young, game warden stationed in Atoka County.
Murray: July 23. Elevation 5 ft. below normal, water 84 and clear. Largemouth and smallmouth bass good on soft plastic baits and jerk baits early morning, late evening and at night. Channel catfish slow to fair on chicken liver , worms and stinkbait at 3-4 ft. Crappie slow to fair at 10 ft. around brush piles. Report submitted by Jeremy Brothers, game warden stationed in Carter County.
Pine Creek: July 21. Elevation normal, water clear. Bass fair on spinnerbaits. Crappie good on jigs around tops. Catfish fair on punch bait. Report submitted by Mark Hannah, game warden stationed in McCurtain County.
Robert S. Kerr: July 22. Largemouth bass good on crankbaits, spinnerbaits and plastic baits around brush, grass and riprap along the river and good in cutoffs in the river. Spotted bass and white bass excellent up the Canadian River. White bass congregated in deeper pools. Crappie fair around deeper submerged brush locations. Channel and blue catfish excellent on trotlines and juglines baited with cut bait at 12-20 ft. close to creek and river channels. Flathead catfish good on trotlines baited with live bait up the river and in coves. Report submitted by Allen Couch, game warden stationed in Haskell County.
Texoma: July 21. Elevation 1 1/4 ft. below normal, water 82 and clear. Largemouth and smallmouth bass good on surface lures, crankbaits and plastic worms at 5-15 ft. along riprap and underwater brush. Striped and white bass good on live bait, surface lures and slabs at 10-30 ft. from Burns Run to Caney Creek. Channel and blue catfish good on live bait, worms and stinkbait at 5-20 ft. from the Washita River to Platter Flats. Crappie good on minnows and jigs at 5-15 ft. around underwater brush and fish attractors. Sunfish good on worms, shrimp and small tube jigs at 5-10 ft. around fishing docks. Report submitted by Danny Clubb, game warden stationed in Bryan County.
Wister: July 21. Elevation 1/2 ft. above normal, water murky. Largemouth bass excellent on black 12-inch worms, white tips and watermelon, spinnerbaits and crankbaits and on Zara Spooks early and late. Crappie good on minnows and fair on white, blue and pink jigs at 10-15 ft. around brushy cover. Catfish excellent on live shad sunfish and goldfish and on juglines and trotlines baited with cut bait and dead minnows. Report submitted by Randy Fennell, game warden stationed in LeFlore County.


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Monday, May 26, 2008
Resuscitation docs..
Yesterday, old lady, 89, arrests in ED, and I unfortunately bring here back. Call ICU doc to come admit. He comes down, writes orders and before he leaves, she codes again. He turns to me to run the code again and doesn't want to have anything to do with it. This, it seems has become the norm. No one else in medicine can run a cardiac or trauma code anymore but US!
I mean, you can have 3 cardiologist's standing around with their heads up their butt's if an EM doc is present at a code situation. Everyone just assumes we are the only docs who are qualified to run the situation. Kind of a compliment, but also a major PIA.
Is this what you folks out there are seeing, too? Is it because they have no balls or have we become the only docs willing to take care of the situation? If so, why? Malpractice concerns, scared, or what? Thoughts?
37 comments:
all the time. every day. just like you say. we are, increasingly, the only docs who do "sick". we are, in one respects, victims of our own success, but also, victims of outside circumstances. in this particular instance i think most docs are scared of liability. let's face it, even though codes aren't usually successful, if you don't do them, you don't want to do them. and when that goofball ER doc is in the hospital hell, just call him!ReplyDelete
- Anonymous4:47 PM, May 26, 2008
(Old Fogie Voice)I'm with ya old fart. In my day medical students searched out potential codes. Where else could you yell "Clear"! and "1 Amp Epi 1 Amp bicarb"! just like Dr. Noah Drake on General Hospital? Now the cardiologists come in like Bruce Sutter to get that one batter out and then they're gone.ReplyDelete
it all depends on the time of day at my joint.ReplyDelete
During the day, our Crit. Care guys will go to the house codes, etc on the floors (although there aren't a ton now since we started with rapid response, etc). Rarely do they have any codes in the ICU because they're pretty good about communication with the families and usually by the time a code would happen, a proper course of action is decided upon.
The ER guys run all the arrests in the ED. House docs cover the arrests after hours on the floors, but us EM residents are supposed to go to any code that gets called to provide airway support and be the team leader.
I've noticed that many of the doctors who do not work directly in the ED or who are not working hospitalist do not have ACLS, PALS, etc. and many don't know HOW to run an arrest. Do you find this in your area?ReplyDelete
Would you really want them running the code? I noticed a huge, huge difference in how codes were run in the ER compared to the floor. It was way better in the ER.ReplyDelete
The more you do something, the better you become at it. Would you want an ER nurse scrubing in on your crash C-section? Do the OB's even want a scrub tech from the OR? Do you want the aesthesiologist to intubate your baby or the NIcu Doctor. My vote would be with the Nicu Doctor. We have become very specialized. Yes, we are victims of our own success. But look at the results. The results are better when you do it all the time. We did a C-section tonight decision to baby out in 7 minutes! We would not be able to do that if we were not specialized.
The patient probably does much better if you are coding them instead of the Cardiac Doctor who has not run a code since God knows when.
yes, but no. running a code should be second nature to everyone having completed either a surgical or medicine residency.
having the ER docs do them all is an ideal, but there are times when i can't leave the ER because i'm coding someone there, OR, worse, i'm about to code someone.
at my particular facility we even code the critical care doc's patients. this is just crazy. our first responsibility is to patients in the ER. other docs should be able to run a code and competent in doing so because one day i will not be able to come or oldfart or 'cat or erdoc85 or lofty. this is a situation ready to snap.
- Anonymous10:46 PM, May 26, 2008
I have been reading this blog for a few months. I agree with much of what you guys have to say, but I really do not appreciate the tone of this post. As an Ob/Gyn in a teaching hospital...I get called frequently for complaints such as the ever popular "vaginal bleeding" and "pelvic pain"... and I continue to be amazed at how the ED just automatically dumps these patients on us without even doing a full evaluation. Their usual response to my question of "Why didn't you do a pelvic exam or transvaginal ultrasound?" is: well, I figured you would just do it. Granted these typically are not true emergencies and probably should never have been seen in the ED anyway, but regardless, they are your patients. So..I just go about my job and do the pelvic and transvaginal ultrasound (which is probably best for the patient)- at the same time trying to teach the ED physician what to look for (unless they get called to be the 30th person in the trauma bay when a trauma roles in - leaving the rest of the ED looking like a ghost town). My point is...before you tout yourselves as the gurus of the medical world and ridicule other specialties for not doing what you can or being "scared" or having "no balls"...make sure you can do it all. Otherwise, admit that you may be clearly deficient in other aspects of medicine that some find trivial and easy...and appreciate your consultants.ReplyDelete
- Dr. Wannabe10:51 PM, May 26, 2008
As an outsider (scribe/all around scut runner) I have personally witnessed this.ReplyDelete
Cardiologist wouldnt even attempt to intubate a pt that coded on the tele floor, said he wanted to wait for the "code team" to get there.(btw that guy was sued and hasn't shown his face around here since the patient was a family member of a prominent nurse and did not make it.)
Had an oncologist walk right off the damn floor while saying, pt in room 3 is about to code. WTF.
Since when is it OK for a doctor to NOT be able to amply run a code.
So far the only docs I have seen run codes are ER, Hospitalist and Pulmonary.
As a future doctor it sickens me to see how lazy (for lack of a better word) medicine has gotten, and at what price?
dear anonymous,ReplyDelete
screw you. no one here is claiming to be a guru of anything, merely that over the last ten years somehow the job of running codes has been left to us. you do sound like an academic stuffed-shirt though who sees the folks in the ER as 'triage docs'. seriously, go fuck yourself you freaking doucebag. how's that for tone? clear?
- Anonymous11:14 PM, May 26, 2008
As an addendum to my above post...I am extremely grateful that ED physicians are confident and more than capable of running a code...both for personal and professional reasons. The times that I have been associated with a code (fortunately, not many) I am amazed by the ability of the "code team." I continue to try to better myself in this area, but what I read in books is no substitute to the real deal...those that practice the code in real time will obviously be more proficient, which is why I believe many physicians stray from this...especially if a more experienced ED, CCM, Anesth. physician is present. That being said...as Dr. Wannabe observed... every physician should really be capable of running a code in the event that it is necessary and they are the only ones there.ReplyDelete
- Anonymous11:33 PM, May 26, 2008
Sorry my original comment was a little harsh...had a few bad call nights lately. Didnt mean to offend. As for me...I will continue to click on the JCAHO Accreditation ads on your blog to help contribute...
- Anonymous12:51 AM, May 27, 2008
Hello. Anonymous Ghetto Medic again.ReplyDelete
I'm not qualified to speak to the subject of ER docs running codes. For me, it's much simpler than that.
Why the fuck am I called to family practice office for "chest pain" calls? As far as I know, the 1400 hours of training I have pales in comparision to the multi-year degree of doctors. Apparently, none of these silly fucks has read "Emergencies in the Outpatient Setting" in the Medical Clinics of North America. How is calling me a Higher Level of Care? If I'm your patient, and paying you an office visit copay, don't get all chicken shit and call an ambulance because I'm not paying for that too.
And further, when I arrive on scene with my shit and my protocols, why do these fuckers insist in trying to tell me how to run the call? "Are you going to start a line? Why are using LR? You need a 16 gauge or bigger! You're giving him nitrates? How do you know it's not a right ventricular infarct?" Don't tell me you're "looking for the delta wave indicative of WPW" I know you just remembered that from some crash 12-lead course. It's not convincing.
I want to say, "Bitch, if you're such a fucking expert, why did you call 911?"
Picked up a guy out of a LTAC facility the other day. Nurse was like, Yeah, his sats aren't so good. He's 84% on room air, so the physician wrote orders for him to be on a non rebreather at 6 LPM.
I gave up arguing about this long ago. I feel like just throwing a plastic bag on their head any saying, "Here's a simulation of what it feels like to to have a mask on your face with too little oxygen!" I can't roll into an ER with a non rebreather at 6 LPM. You know how stupid I would look?
When did people become idiots about which oxygen delivery device is appropriate for a particular flow rate?
Codes at an LTAC. There's a hospital in my town. Big hospital. Long term care place. 112 beds. Physicans on staff, RTs on staff, 24/7 physician coverage. Nurses, LPNS, the whole slew. And they call 911 to run a code. These silly bitches have VENT PATIENTS. They do surgeries at this place. Intubate people here. And you call a fucking ambulance to run a code at your "hospital?" Where are your nuts? Where is your pride? Have you no shame? Christ almighty.
I have done a fair number of codes. Here's my abbreviated wisdom for any physician who feels lost. First, grow a pair of balls. They're dead. If you are doing CPR on them, they're dead. Whatever the fuck you do, short of pissing on them, is an improvement.
Second, thankfully, you have "allied staff" who is equally panicked and fear stricken since they too forgot rule number one. All you have to do is pretend like you know what you're doing and things will be fine.
Third, AHA makes little cards to follow. Get one and keep in on your cart.
Here's what the AHA videos suggest. First, you need a denim shirt. Then, when you find some gorked patient you scream, "YOU! CALL A CODE. GET THE CRASH CART. BEGIN COMPRESSIONS. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5...."
Please, don't count compressions out loud. Forgive my arrogance, I really am a humble person, but what the fuck difference does it make it you don't hit spot on 30? 28-35 works okay.
I don't think there's any magic to codes. They're very formulaic. Very simple. Very predictable. I don't have nurses and techs to do my bidding. I have an EMT who hands me drugs and firemen who do CPR. That leaves me to shock, intubate, IV, push drugs, suction airway, call nearest hospital, deliver report, monitor patient condition and change drugs or plan as rhythm and condition changes, and ensure nothing gets seriously fucked while dragging the patient down two sets of stairs into the ambulance for a ride to the hospital.
If I can run a code in a strip club bathroom (which I've done), anyone with a little training should be able to run a code in the hospital. I think hospitals have gotten so fucking worthless in the diffusion of responsibility.
The reality is that you don't get better at it by passing the buck. Get your feet wet and do it. They're dead. What's the worst that will happen? They remain dead?
Codes are simple. Don't make them complex. There's only two rhythms anyway - asystole/PEA, pulseless v-fib/v-tach. That's it.
I'm not going to pretend I know anything about keeping some poor bastard alive after ROSC, because that's not my training or my job. I have no clue what to do next. But the issue is the code itself. And those are easy.
- Anonymous6:43 AM, May 27, 2008
Got called to a code as an anesthesia resident, someone had already tried intubating, unsuccessfully, didn't really matter as you said, since his BP was "0"("Planes, Trains, and Automobiles" reference) ICU fellow told me to go get a fiberoptic scope. Kept sticking tubes down the patients throat till one went in. Patient looked like a sword swallower. And the end tidal CO2 indicator often will be negative in a code patient, since you need to have a cardiac output to have end tidal CO2.ReplyDelete
At our facility, The ED docs respond to all codes. In the 19 years at this hospital, first as an RRT and now as an RN, I have seen non-ED docs run maybe 2% of codes. Most recently, it was a Cardiologist...but he showed up after the ED doc intubated.ReplyDelete
Just wanted to chime in about oxygen gripes, Anonymous Ghetto Medic. I'm a RN in the ER & the other day I am caring for a patient with COPD and pneumonia on a VM. The admitting resident wants to lower the 02 flow (even though I had already clearly charted that I had tried it and the patient wasn't able to support it). Instead of finding me to do it or reading my nursing note (which of course I just write for my own entertainment), he turns just it down to 4L. So Mr. COPD, how does it feel to have a 40% VM on with 4L of 02 flowing rather than 8L? With sats dropping steadily, the family freaks out and comes to find me while I'm hanging meds for a non-STEMI getting ready for the ICU. I pause for a moment to not-so-kindly remind him that if you are trying to lower the O2 on a VM you have to change the appliance with it...So generally, the rule of thumb is...if you don't know what the hell you're doing, don't pretend you do and make my life more difficult. Stick to writing the orders and communicating with the nurses, Dumb Ass.ReplyDelete
Holy shit, fartie, this scares the bejabbers out of me. Note to self: do not get sick. Ever.ReplyDelete
- Anonymous10:55 AM, May 27, 2008
Well, I've watched a few interventional card's at work. I am not sure about the shock factor an EM practitioner is accustomed to.. But most interventional folks are pretty up on their toes, especially if you get hold of a good one.ReplyDelete
It takes balls to do EM, doc. I admit, but let's be fair here. :)
Even scarier is seeing what happens when a major emergency happens out in the "real world", without the back-up you have inside the hospital.ReplyDelete
At 35,000 feet, when the flight attendant asks for a doctor and those who respond find out that an ER doctor was silly enough to stand up, the rest just melt away back into the crowd. You can't even find them to be extra hands for doing something, much less making decisions.
don't get me wrong. i'm not saying we are the only one's who CAN run codes nor am i saying we are the only ones who SHOULD, i am merely lamenting the fact that as it turns out here and at my previous facility the codes all fell the the ER doc. i think it's wrong and dangerous.ReplyDelete
and as to the speculation re the authors here i will add this clue, four of us were medical school classmates, i then met the others. we self selected in that regard and sound a lot alike because we were also lovers.
i have doctored on two airline flights. the kits the airlines carry, at least 5 years ago, are shit. then the pilot asks you if he has to land. not a small thing... 40,000 to the airline for an emergency landing in the cont. us. one peanut in the nose, and one hypoxic patient who got better with O2. no macgyver'ed trachs yet.ReplyDelete
The funny thing about codes is that the only thing that has been shown to lead to better survival - leaving the hospital with a functioning brain - is good CPR and defibrillation.ReplyDelete
No drugs.
No tubes.
No IVs.
Almost anyone can do this well.
Part of the problem with codes, both in the hospital and out of the hospital, is too much focus on the "advanced" procedures, and not enough on the basics.
Perhaps what should be done by the ED doctors is, make sure the doctor covering the floor stays and runs the code (assuming they are there, if not that could be addressed with the hospital administration), make it clear that you are just observing and offering advice when the doctor strays from the recommended treatment. Perhaps you could hand them a card with the appropriate algorithm on it.
If they learn to punt everything to you, things will not change. If they are made to realize that they can do this, they should depend on the ED less.
- Anonymous12:54 PM, May 27, 2008
During my Navy time I was tasked to grade the Dental Clinics cardiac arrest drills. I walk in, throw Resussi-Annie on the waiting room floor, what do the dentists do? Call 911, cause "thats what we always do". Annie didn't get her pulse back either.ReplyDelete
- Anonymous2:33 PM, May 27, 2008
I am an ER nurse. Used to be on the "code team" too. Whenever we got called to a code, because I worked at night, usually the only doc there was an ER physician. Now I work during the daylight hours, we have a patient come in who is coding, even id their own physician is there he usually defers to the ER doc. I mean we are the ones who HAVE to be ACLS certified. If I thought someone could do the job better I would defer to him/her too.ReplyDelete
Now if we could just keep stupid stuff from cramming up the ER. This Memorial Day Weekend has been a killer!!! Some of the staff members lives have been threatened... don't theses folks know that it's a felony to mess with a hospital employee while they're at work?? Dumbasses!
The ED doctors do not necessarily have to be ACLS certified. ACEP has been trying to discourage ACLS requirements. The requirements for EM board certification go beyond what comes with an ACLS completion card.
But, yes, they are supposed to be the experts.
Holey Shitt People!! I didn't mean for that to be so rough! I'd rather have 911 fudge packing my ass than start another argument!!ReplyDelete
So my comments:
Anon OB, I didn't tout myself as a "guru" of anything! And I'm talking about an INTENSIVIST walking away from a pt he'd written admitting orders on! Just asking if everyone else had the same experiences with SUPPOSEDLY competent docs NOT running codes and backing out the door when we showed up!
For your OB/Gyn comment. Do have any idea how many vag bleeders we see and dispense with that you
don't? Fuck Wad! And another "for instance" This weekend, female, bleeding/pain/palbable suprapubic mass/I do US and CT and call our guys who say thanks send her up to me I want to do my own US!!And, yes it's a teaching institution and is in the top 10 in deliveries/yr in the nation, so I think they're pretty good. I was not offended that he wanted his machine/hands/etc. It's pretty much my experience that OB's want to do their OWN US! So Fuck off and climb down from whatever mountain you're on!
Ghetto Medic: Chill, go to med school and come be one of my EM Residents.
And doctors out of the hospital are like fish out of water, we flop around alot and can't accomplish shit. We depend on you pre-hospital guys to "do that thing you do"..Rock on!
Julie: Don't ever let a doctor screw around with equipment! We generally don't know what those little lines on the green thingy mean..
Rogue: Preachin' to the choir here, Bubba
Drackman: That slays me!! Annie didn't get her pulse back!!!
To All of you: Our blog is a great coping mechanism for us 6 sick phucks! We can say all the shit we think during a shift, meeting, or lecture. We really aren't here for your education or to criticise others, altho it may seem that way at times I'm sure. We're just trying to "enlighten" a few of you as to what we deal with everyday, some sad, some tragic, some so laughable you guys don't believe us, but every event we've written about is true altho the names have been changed to protect Dr Peel.....So, HTFU!!!
uh, oldfart, i didn't know! it can be arranged for a nominal fee.ReplyDelete
Hey, I'm just sitting here learning. Watching ya'll duke it out and watching the dust settle.ReplyDelete
Rock on Oldfart. But be careful, with that personal info, you're getting easier for Debbie Peel to ID.
- Anonymous6:30 PM, May 27, 2008
Old Fart.ReplyDelete
Like I said previously...I apologize for my original comment...just had a few bad call nights lately and had to vent. It was a bit harsh...and did not intend for it to come across how it did. Anyways..keep up the interesting and always entertaining posting.
-Anon OB
i likewise must apologize for similar reasons. as you may or may not know i am desperate to, i don't know, go work at a hot dog stand or something. we are in a hell of a mess in podunkville and, if nothing else, i'm trying to tell as many people as i can that we really face a crisis of immense proportions in medicine... one that, i believe, is not so hard to fix as people would imagine, but, one that, if 'fixed' by any form of centralization, will break us. thanks doc.
Anon OB, gracious statement, no problem. Keep reading us, we are really prety funny most of the time. Maybe we'll need an OB/GYN consultant to the blog.ReplyDelete
911, U R such a cheap Ho'..
glass houses etc...
911, YO MAMA!!!ReplyDelete
- Anonymous6:25 AM, May 28, 2008
Hey Oldfart, when did they take open chest cardiac massage out of the ACLS protocalls? Or was it just "LS" back then? That must have been a blast.ReplyDelete
- HospiceDoc7:01 PM, May 28, 2008
I work part time nights (on the side) at a small community hospital, on the inpatient side. I run my own codes and do all my own intubations.ReplyDelete
Irony is not dead.
- Anonymous1:48 AM, May 29, 2008
Hmmm.. To be honest I suppose I would probably run the code in my ED more because I know all my people and we are used to it as a group. Were the code in the ICU for example and I happened to be up there following up on a guy I admitted I would fully expect the intesivist to take it over.ReplyDelete
I understand your argument that this is now his patient given that she is admitted, but I wonder if it was unwillingness or not wanting to step on your toes in your turf(though that seems unlikely given my experience, but maybe he's a nice guy).
"Here's what the AHA videos suggest. First, you need a denim shirt."ReplyDelete
Ghetto Medic, you crack me up. Please guest post at my blog!!!
Drack..I posted this a few days ago but it never showed..ReplyDelete
Open chest cardiac massasge was done on every arrest in my EM residency. I got VERY good at cracking a chest..
Guess what?? They stayed dead!! Big surprise..See medic above..


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14 January 2011
Nuances of Nested Tables (1864)
In response to this quiz, one player wrote: "I am a bit confused about nested tables. As a DBA I know that nested tables are schema objects in the database, but it what we used to call PLSQL tables are now also called nested tables? In my opinion (assuming that I am correct here, which is not necessarily the case of course), this makes today's quiz a bit ambiguous: you can use SQL statements to access nested tables that exist in the database, but not to access PLSQL tables, I believe. It is not clear which type are meant."
To clarify: the datatype formerly known as the "PL/SQL table" is now known as an associative array. It is a PL/SQL-only datatype. That is, you cannot define an associative array type as a schema level type (a.k.a, database object); you cannot use that type as a column in a relational table; you cannot manipulate an associative array with the TABLE operator - all of which you can do with nested tables and varrays. And, interestingly, even if you declare a nested table as a PL/SQL variable, you can manipulate in an SQL statement as long as the type on which it is declared is a schema-level type.
Another player wrote: "Today's quiz about nested tables is not clear. What does it mean "A nested table can have as many elements in it as a relational table has rows"? Example: I'm trying to create a straightforward column with 1001 columns of type NUMBER... it fails. I'm trying to create a straightforward table with 1 column of user type which is not final. The type has many final implementations. Once the total number of virtual columns hit 1000 it fails to insert any new data. I'm trying to create a nested table which has 1001 columns, thus 1001 elements or attributes... wouldn't it fail? Now let's assume that "element" gets redefined into "tuple" or "row". I can insert more than 1000 rows into the nested table. Finally: If I'm a stubborn being then shouldn't be the last answer true as well?"
To which I respond: an element in a collection is analogous to a row in a relational table. Which is to say that you can define and locate an element through its index value. I intended to test with the statement "A nested table can have as many elements in it as a relational table has rows" your awareness that there is an upper limit to the number of elements a nested table may contain (valid index values range from 1 to 2**31-1), while there is no such limit in an Oracle relational table.
32 comments:
- Anonymous14 January, 2011 00:51
I, also, answered this question purely from the standpoint of nested tables as schema objects, since I consider table types in PL/SQL merely arrays.ReplyDelete
The question about number of "elements" was also confusing because I had to guess what an "element" is in that context.
However, I got this question wrong primarily because I very rarely find a use for this feature - give me a sane, proper, simple relational model any day :)
From the Oracle10g PL/SQL User's Guide, under the section titled "What are PL/SQL Collections and Records?" you will find:ReplyDelete
"A collection is an ordered group of elements, all of the same type. It is a general
concept that encompasses lists, arrays, and other datatypes used in classic
programming algorithms. Each element is addressed by a unique subscript."
- Anonymous14 January, 2011 09:22
Hi Steven,ReplyDelete
I understand that there is limit on number of rows in PL/SQL nested table. Applies the same limit to the SQL nested table defined as column?
In other words, isn't it (theoretically) possible to insert more than 2**31-1 rows with
insert into table(select nested_table_column from some_table) values (...);?
I am not able to find any comment in documentation about this.
Michal Cvan
I am wondering if the 2**31-1 upper limit to the number of elements a nested table applicable to the nested table in PL/SQL or as well to the nested table in SQL (used as a column in the relational table)? If it is not applicable in latter case the "A nested table can have as many elements in it as a relational table can have rows." choice should be considered as correct, as from quiz' context is not clear that this choice relates to PL/SQL only - there is at least one choice related to SQL ("Nested table types can be used as datatypes for columns in relational tables.").ReplyDelete
Kind regards,
- Anonymous14 January, 2011 10:06
I disagree with your explanation for answer #3 in the quiz of Jan 13th. A nested table type can be created in SQL only. Using TYPE in a declaration section merely defines a type in PL/SQL, which is certainly a difference (e.g. more data types possible). A type definition in a package provides a type for use, but does not create it as a distinguishable element. To me, there is a difference between type creation and type definition, but I'm possibly mislead, not being an native English speaker.ReplyDelete
Kind regards,
Peter Schmidt
Like Jeff Kemp I also answered the question from the standpoint of SQL, because inside the "PL/SQL User's Gude and Refernence" there is only one reference to "nested table type" and that's in a comment of an example.ReplyDelete
All other parts only references "collection types" and that's also my view on it: in SQL you have nested table types and varray types and in PL/SQL you have collection types.
In my opinion you can also see the difference at using pipelined functions inside of PL/SQL packages because Oracle automatically generates corresponding nested table types for you and don't use the collection type defined in the package:
SQL> SELECT Type_Name, TypeCode FROM User_Types;
------------------------ -----------
2 PACKAGE Test IS
3 TYPE TtblNumbers IS TABLE OF NUMBER;
4 FUNCTION PipelinedTest RETURN TtblNumbers PIPELINED;
5 END Test;
6 /
Package wurde erstellt.
2 PACKAGE BODY Test IS
3 FUNCTION PipelinedTest RETURN TtblNumbers PIPELINED
6 FOR ix IN 1..5 LOOP
7 PIPE ROW (ix);
10 END PipelinedTest;
11 END Test;
12 /
Package Body wurde erstellt.
SQL> SELECT Type_Name, TypeCode FROM User_Types;
-------------------------- ------------
SQL> SELECT t.* FROM TABLE( Test.PipelinedTest()) t;
SQL> SELECT Type_Name, TypeCode FROM User_Types;
-------------------------- ------------
SQL> DROP PACKAGE Test;
Package wurde gelöscht.
SQL> SELECT Type_Name, TypeCode FROM User_Types;
----------------------- ------------
With the clarification quiz question for the number of elements is OK. Without it it was misleading in my opinion. As a result I recommend score adjustment.
Note that I gave here an answer which is counted as "correct".
Question "a nested table can be ... ONLY ..." - this ONLY keyword should be uppercase/underlined/etc. and you should have clarified whether you are asking about PL/SQL or SQL within the question. Instead I see it as misleading.
"You can use a SQL SELECT statement to retrieve values from a nested table defined on a schema-level nested table type."
Using the same wording:
"If, on the other hand" you create a column of type ANYDATA and put PL/SQL VARCHAR2(32767) into it... try to retrieve it using SQL which has the limitation to use max 4k :D
Note that I gave here an answer which is counted as "correct".
What is my point here: (1) avoid unclear questions and (2) avoid questions that rely on a single word which might been used in some context in some Oracle document. The first one is misleading the audience. The second one is good for lawyers to overuse the system for their benefit, not a common man.
"Nested table types must be defined in the database as schema-level types."
The same as above. Clarify if this is about SQL or PL/SQL.
Note that I gave here an answer which is counted as "incorrect" - I was misled by the use of "must" and "be defined in the database". I'm using this quite frequently in PL/SQL. If you say that PL/SQL = "in the database" then I would answer that C and JAVA code can be run on it as well...
And thanks again for a great quiz which is a great source of knowledge for me, just like your books are.
Some comments on the above comments:ReplyDelete
Nested table types can be defined/created as schema-level objects or as types within a PL/SQL block (or, more likely, a package). This is an important thing to be aware of. I deliberately did not specify which I was talking about in some of these choices for that reason.
It I do not specify that I am talking about a schema-level type or a PL/SQL-based type, then it seems logical to me that you would not assume one or the other. I don't think that is the least bit misleading.
As for the use of the word "create" meaning that I am talking about a schema-level type and not one defined in PL/SQL block, that seems like "hair-splitting" or "word-splitting" to me. I create a package that has within it a nested table type. I have therefore created a nested table type for use in my applications. You could just as well argue that I "defined" a schema level type as "created" it.
Does the limit of 2**-1 rows apply to a nested table in a relational table column? I have never read anything that indicates otherwise. Has anyone else? It sure is a hard thing to test, but barring that I do not see how we cannot rely on the documented limits.
According to Oracle® Database Application Developer's Guide - Object-Relational FeaturesReplyDelete
10g Release 2 (10.2), "A nested table can have any number of elements" (Section 3, "Support for Collection Datatypes"). Since the choice "A nested table can have as many elements in it as a relational table can have rows" did not specify PL/SQL nested tables, it is ambiguous and should be rescored.
Fascinating! Two responses:ReplyDelete
1. I wonder if this statement means that there is really no upper bound of elements allowed in a nested table that is a column in a table or Oracle is simply saying in comparison to varrays that you do not specify a maximum. I will see if I can find out. I don't really see how there a nested table can have more than 2**31-1 elements, since you can access elements by their index values.
2. Even if the above is true, since I did not specify a nested table based on schema-level type or PL/SQL-based type, the choice would by default have to apply to both. It is not ambiguous - it is comprehensive. So I still do not see why I would rescore for this.
Hi Steven!ReplyDelete
I rather disagree with your points. If a nested table in the column of the relational table can have more than 2**31-1 element it just means that this table is not compatible with PL/SQL.Your choice does not say "is there an upper limit on the nested table size in PL-SQL", it refers to the limit without any qualification, such limit shall be applicable to any situation in which nested tables may be used in Oracle. If it can be broken at least in once case - it is not a limit and the choice must be rescored.
A very good point, Oleksander. If a nested table can under even one circumstance have as many rows as a relational table (that is, no limit) then I will have to rescore. I have sent a note to Bryn Llewellyn (PL/SQL Product Manager) asking for clarification. I do not believe that the interpretation presented on this blog of the statements in the document (while perfectly understandable) are correct. I do not believe that a nested table can be arbitrarily large. So I will wait to hear from Bryn and then take appropriate action.ReplyDelete
while waiting for a response from an Oracle guy..
Ordinary PL/SQL developers usually don't have a friend working as a PL/SQL Product Manager in Oracle so they have to rely (and trust) Oracle documentation (and, of course, their own experience). If the documentation is not clear different people can interpret it in different ways. Which means - ambiguity. It doesn't matter what a PL/SQL Product Manager says now if the documentation was unclear before (we all took the quiz).. :)
While I consider Bryn a friend, he is first and foremost the PL/SQL Product Manager. Which means, among other things, that anyone who is a PL/SQL developer should feel welcome (he has told me this) to contact him with questions about PL/SQL. His email address is email@example.com
You may find this hard to believe, but I don't get special treatment from Bryn. I just bother him a lot. :-)
As to your point regarding documentation, I am torn. Generally, I would say that a problem in the documentation (and there are many) is not an "excuse" for making an incorrect choice - precisely because you could "always" write some code to determine "the truth."
In this case, however, it would be extremely difficult to verify the reality. I have certainly never been able to populate a collection of any type with anything approaching 2**31-1 elements.
So....I give up. :-) I will change this choice to specifically reference a PL/SQL nested table type, and give everyone credit for a correct choice.
my comment about having a friend in Oracle wasn't meant to offend you. Sorry if it did (but there was smile at the end).
What I meant to say was that we (ordinary PL/SQL Developers :-p ) usually use Oracle documentation as a study material, that should be the first thing to look to. We have to trust that things are as they are descibed there (well, sometimes it is hard to trust if you see funny thing like - http://download.oracle.com/docs/cd/B14117_01/server.101/b10755/statviews_1014.htm - look at description of POSITION column :D ). Yes, you are right, I could always write some code to determine the truth - but it means that I have to write code to test and verify every single thing - how could I know what is correct and what is not? :)
I don't want you to rescore (even if I would benefit from it). I just wanted to point out that documentation should (must?) be (always) clear. I believe that argument "problem in the documentation is not an excuse" should not be applied here - if the question is related to a topic I have never used and I search the documentation and choose the answer based on it and then you say it is wrong because documentation is wrong - it lowers the solidity of the contest.
I hope it makes sense what I want to say. I believe the quizzes should not be based on principle "ask first and then verify".
Have a nice rest of the weekend :)
This is a tough situation with no clear resolution, in my mind. There are many problems with the Oracle documentation (though that documentation is also in so many other ways quite wonderful and constantly improving), starting with a lack of clear definitions for many elements of the language.ReplyDelete
I definitely do not want to constrain quizzes to the vagaries and problems of documentation and I cannot commit to checking all possible places in documentation before publishing each quiz. I simply don't have the time. Perhaps I can find a volunteer who can make this their review task? :-)
In any case, I have changed the scores and ranking.
Oh, and I was not offended. I just feel very strongly that any and all PL/SQL developers should be in touch with Bryn, to tell him how you use PL/SQL, how it should be improved, and issues you have with it.ReplyDelete
"starting with a lack of clear definitions for many elements of the language"ReplyDelete
That's one of the benefits of this quiz, a place where interpretations of these terms can be opened up to a wider community.
Hello All,ReplyDelete
I think that the main problem of this choice resides in the fact that the statement
DID NOT specify exactly whether it refers to:
1. a nested table stored in a relational table
2. a nested table type variable in PL/SQL
3. both the above
Strictly speaking, in the absence of this specification, it is natural to consider the statement as referring to both types ( that is, "comprehensive", as Steven called it above ).
If so, then the original marking of the choice as incorrect was right.
As Oleksandr said above, one single case that contradicts the statement renders it incorrect,
but here the statement said that a nested table CAN (POSITIVE) have as many elements in it as a
relational table can have rows.
The case of a nested table type variable in PL/SQL clearly contradicts it, so the statement is NOT correct.
On the other hand, since the statement itself mentions "relational table" (though as a comparison term only), and the general context of the quiz (and some other choices in it) did also deal with nested tables stored in database columns, some players might have interpreted the "nested table" in this choice as obviously referring to a nested table stored in a database column.
This is the case for which WE DO NOT KNOW AT THIS POINT whether it is possible THEORETICALLY
to store more than 2**31-1 elements (nested table rows) into it.
The documentation (Oracle® Database Application Developer's Guide - Object-Relational Features)
does say that "No maximum is specified IN THE DEFINITION of the table", but we cannot specify
whether this definitely means that we can indeed execeed the 2**31-1 elements limit, because
we will probably hit a physical limitation while trying to check it.
Anyway, since such a number of child elements (in a nested table, that means, belonging all of them to one single parent row) will probably be of NO practical use, this might be a reason that neither
the documentation nor the examples insist on this issue.
A short remark also related to Niels Hecker's post above:
Starting with Oracle11gR1, a nested table type defined in a PL/SQL package and used as a return type for a pipelined function IS NOT implemented any more by creating implicitly the schema level types named SYS_PLSQL%, as it was the case for Oracle9i and Oracle10g.
Maybe some similar operation is performed internally using some kind of database types,
but this is NOT visible any more in the DBA_TYPES dictionary table.
Regarding our possibility to directly communicate with Oracle high level specialists,
like both Steven as Bryn, we can and should only feel very grateful and honored of this.
Thanks & Best Regards,
OK, it is really hard to test if we can insert more than 2**31-1 rows in the nested table when it is used as a value of a column in some relational table but it looks very plausible that we can:ReplyDelete
1. a nested table is stored as an relational table (STORE AS clause).
2. Relational tables have no limit numbers on of rows (explicitly documented, see Logical Database Limits in Reference).
2. we do not need to resort to PL/SQL to perform DML operations on such tables (see Table Collections: Examples in the SQL Reference).
Kind regards,
Hello All,ReplyDelete
Just a short addition (another debt to Niels Hecker) to my previous post
related to Oracle11g implementation of nested table types defined in a package spec and returned by a pipelined function:
Though the types created are NOT visible in USER_TYPES, they are however visible in USER_COLL_TYPES.
For example, after having created 2 such types,
a TABLE OF NUMBER and a TABLE OF VARCHAR2(4000)
I see the following:
SQL> select type_name, typecode
2 from user_types where type_name like 'SYS%'
3 /
no rows selected
SQL> select type_name, coll_type, elem_type_name
2 from user_coll_types where type_name
like 'SYS%'
3 /
------------------------------ ------------------------------
4 rows selected.
In Oracle9i and Oracle10g the types created inplicitly by SYS were visible in USER_TYPES also, so something (partially) changed.
Oleksandr, related to your post:
It is right that the data for a STORED nested table column is physically (and we can say partly that also logically) stored in a regular relational table, and this relational table of course DOES NOT have any theoretical limit on the number of rows .
But these rows do belong to ALL the nested tables
(for all the master rows) that are stored in the table that has the nested table column.
More than this:
I just checked out something for which Tom Kyte
would surely kill me, therefore I just tell you about it, without specific code samples:
There exists an undocumented feature by which you can retrieve data directly from the nested table STORAGE table, as if it were a simple relational table (this appears in Tom's "Expert One on one-Oracle" ).
I just checked and found that you can not only select, but also INSERT data directly into the
nested table's storage table !!!
But that data DOES NOT belong to ANY parent row
from the table containing the nested table column !!!
That is, it CANNOT be retrieved by the usual documented methods, that is, the methods that use a TABLE function and always retrieve, or perform DML on ONE SINGLE nested table, belonging to one specific parent row.
So, while the STORAGE relational table probably DOES NOT have a theoretical limit for its
number of rows, I dare suppose that the INDIVIDUAL nested tables DO HAVE SUCH A LIMIT,
though we cannot prove it (yet :) ?).
I can try it, but I'm afraid I will make the database explode and they will fire me !!!
I'm very eager to hear Steven and Bryn's further comments on this issue, any idea about how can we check it effectively ?
If for example we will try to fill a nested table
with 2**31 NULL values, and maybe define some form of compression on the nested table storage table (I never tried it !)
are we in danger to make the database (or the archive files) explode ?
Thanks & Best Regards,
This comment has been removed by the author.ReplyDelete
>I dare suppose that the INDIVIDUAL nested tables DO HAVE SUCH A LIMIT, though we cannot prove it (yet :) ?).ReplyDelete
Actually no:
Connected to:
Oracle Database 11g Enterprise Edition Release 18.104.22.168.0 - Production
With the Partitioning, OLAP, Data Mining and Real Application Testing options
SQL> set timing on
SQL> create or replace type number_t is table of number(1);
2 /
Type created.
Elapsed: 00:00:00.03
SQL> create table tn (t number_t) pctfree 0 nologging compress
2 nested table t store as tnn (pctfree 0 nologging compress);
Table created.
Elapsed: 00:00:00.09
SQL> insert into tn values (number_t(null));
1 row created.
Elapsed: 00:00:00.04
SQL> commit;
Commit complete.
Elapsed: 00:00:00.00
SQL> begin
2 for i in 0 .. 21474 loop
3 insert /*+ append*/ into table(select t from tn) select null from dual connect by level <= 100000;
4 commit;
5 end loop;
6 end;
7 /
Elapsed: 03:05:14.87
PL/SQL procedure successfully completed.
SQL> select 2147483647 pls_max, count(*) cnt from tn, table(t);
---------- ----------
2147483647 2147500001
Elapsed: 00:19:47.34
SQL> select s.BYTES from user_segments s where s.segment_name = 'TNN';
Elapsed: 00:00:00.01
"But these rows do belong to ALL the nested tables
(for all the master rows) that are stored in the table that has the nested table column." - definitely, but "unlimited/any_finite_number" is still unlimited. And at any point in time the master table contains only finite number of rows.
As for feature that you mentioned - I am pretty aware of it - but even without this (as you properly said undocumented) feature you may manipulate (insert, update, delete) data in the nested table with usual DML operators. And this way is perfectly documented, my previous post mentioned it - but I would provide here a quote from Oracle SQL Reference:
CREATE TYPE people_typ AS OBJECT (
last_name VARCHAR2(25),
department_id NUMBER(4),
salary NUMBER(8,2));
CREATE TYPE people_tab_typ AS TABLE OF people_typ;
CREATE TABLE hr_info (
department_id NUMBER(4),
location_id NUMBER(4),
manager_id NUMBER(6),
people people_tab_typ)
NESTED TABLE people STORE AS people_stor_tab;
INSERT INTO hr_info VALUES (280, 1800, 999, people_tab_typ());
The following example inserts into the people nested table column of the hr_info table for department 280:
INSERT INTO TABLE(SELECT h.people FROM hr_info h
WHERE h.department_id = 280)
VALUES ('Smith', 280, 1750);
Note, that INSERT...SELECT works as well.
So with something like
INSERT INTO TABLE(SELECT h.people FROM hr_info h
WHERE h.department_id = 280)
SELECT h.people FROM hr_info h WHERE h.department_id = 280)
Repeated in the loop we can reach 2*31 rows in the table in not so many loops - as each run doubles the number of rows in the nested table. The problem is only if we have enough free space in the DB.
Hello Oleksandr,ReplyDelete
Yes, the problem is NOT the loop here, but
whether it will allow you or not to exceed the
(2**31-1) limit of the number of elements,
supposing that we DO have the necessary free
space in the database, which we probably don't have, that is why we cannot check it effectively.
If we look at a nested table definition,
it is NOT different when we create a nested table
at the schema level using CREATE TYPE
or we create it using a TYPE declaration in a PL/SQL unit.
Neither one of the 2 definitions specifies any limit regarding the number of elements,
however, PL/SQL clearly does NOT allow more than
(2**31-1) elements to be added to the nested table.
Therefore, at least by this example, I would expect the database type to also enforce that THEORETIC limitation, regardless of the fact that the STORAGE table of the nested table can store any number of rows.
Let's not forget that we can have an arbitrary
high number of rows in the parent table,
so, even if each nested table in each parent row
only contains one single element, that is already an arbirtrary high number of rows in the nested table column's STORAGE table,
but NOT in any of the NESTED TABLES themselves
( as individual objects ).
So, I still am inclined to believe that the limit of (2**31-1) elements CANNOT be exceeded,
even in a nested table stored in the database.
What would happen for example if we define a NESTED TABLE type using CREATE TYPE (that is, a nested table that allows any number of elements)
and then define a PL/SQL variable of that database type ?
Will that variable "inherit" from its TYPE
the same characteristic of being able to store ANY number of elements ?
Will it be subject to the PLS_INTEGER index size
limitation of PL/SQL ?
I think we will not be freed from this arguing
except by one of the two:
1.Either somebody will find a method to prove it one way or another.
2.One of the Oracle's core developers, that is aware of the internal implementation will supply us the precise answer, the one that is not so clearly concludable from the Documentation.
Anyway, all this blog raised a very interesting point that I'm sure that most if not all of us would probably have never thought of :) :).
Thanks & Best Regards,
A little test (improved version instead of my post at January 16, 2011 9:28 PM):ReplyDelete
Connected to:
Oracle Database 11g Enterprise Edition Release 22.214.171.124.0 - Production
With the Partitioning, OLAP, Data Mining and Real Application Testing options
SQL> set timing on
SQL> create or replace type number_t is table of number(1);
2 /
Type created.
Elapsed: 00:00:00.03
SQL> create table tn (t number_t) pctfree 0 nologging compress
2 nested table t store as tnn (pctfree 0 nologging compress);
Table created.
Elapsed: 00:00:00.09
SQL> insert into tn values (number_t(null));
1 row created.
Elapsed: 00:00:00.04
SQL> commit;
Commit complete.
Elapsed: 00:00:00.00
SQL> begin
2 for i in 0 .. 21474 loop
3 insert /*+ append*/ into table(select t from tn) select null from dual connect by level <= 100000;
4 commit;
5 end loop;
6 end;
7 /
PL/SQL procedure successfully completed.
Elapsed: 01:09:38.25
SQL> select 2147483647 pls_max, count(*) cnt from tn, table(t);
---------- ----------
2147483647 2147500001
Elapsed: 00:13:49.65
SQL> select s.bytes from user_segments s where s.segment_name = 'TNN';
Elapsed: 00:00:00.07
Here is another small example:ReplyDelete
Connected to:
Oracle Database 10g Enterprise Edition Release 10.2.0.4.0 - Production
With the Partitioning, OLAP, Data Mining and Real Application Testing options
SQL> set timing on
SQL> create or replace type number_t is table of number(1);
2 /
Type created.
Elapsed: 00:00:00.00
SQL> create or replace function get3E9rows return number_t pipelined is
2 i number := 3E9;
3 begin
4 while i > 0 loop
5 pipe row (null);
6 i := i - 1;
7 end loop;
8 end;
9 /
Function created.
Elapsed: 00:00:00.01
SQL> select count(*) from table(get3E9rows);
Elapsed: 00:05:51.10
As _Nikotin provided the direct evidence that the limit in question is not applicable to the nested tables in the DB, the quiz needs to be be rescored.ReplyDelete
1. Congratulations and many thanks to _Nikotin for providing a simple script to prove that the documentation is correct: there is apparently no limit to the number of elements in a nested table stored as a table's column. I have added one of these scripts to the answer for the quiz.ReplyDelete
2. The rescoring is already done (I said I would do this earlier in the commentary: "So....I give up. :-) I will change this choice to specifically reference a PL/SQL nested table type, and give everyone credit for a correct choice.").
What a wonderful and incredibly informative exploration into PL/SQL and related structures! Thanks so much to everyone for their participation and their assistance in deepening my knowledge in this area.
Hello All,ReplyDelete
A pipelined function IS NOT the same as a STORED nested table !!!
Even if using a VARRAY ( which DOES have a limit defined, no arguing I hope :) :) ),
if making that VARRAY type the return type of a pipelined function, then you can exceed the type's declared LIMIT !!!
(Believe me or not, but it just happened to me to check this issue right BEFORE this quiz based on some task at my work, but deeply inspired by the PL/SQL Challenge spirit !!!).
A pipelined function just returns COLLECTION ELEMENTS one by one, and NOT an entire collection !!!
It just helps the SQL layer to "see" a seria of
"fabricated rows" as if they are coming from a real relational table.
This still DOES NOT prove the point, that is
that in a nested table STORED (physically !!!)
in the DATABASE you can exceed the 2**31-1 limit !!!
Steven, YOU ARE REALLY GREAT !!!
Did WE deepen your knowledge ???
Then this is an HISTORICAL DAY for all the bloggers here !!!
Maybe in a future version some score bonus will be afforded to the bloggers ?!?
Thanks for your enthusiasm, I think we were all very enthusiastic about this issue and our knowledge is climbing higher and higher,
though, don't forget, we still don't have a final proof and the swords are still out :) :) :)
- Anonymous19 January, 2011 12:08
It is interesting, that even when the SQL nested table does not have the limitation, PL/SQL engine converts it to own format.ReplyDelete
Let's use type from _Nikotins example:
create or replace type number_t is table of number(1);
Then this code will throw an exception "numeric owerflow":
l_tab number_t := number_t();
This meas that in PL/SQL exists a limitation even if we use SQL type.
Please see comment at "January 17, 2011 7:43 AM", not "January 18, 2011 1:05 PM"


text:
The typical approach to combat the growing proliferation of viruses, Trojans, spyware and other malware is for threat researchers to create signatures, and then to push those signatures down to the endpoint users.
This approach is flawed because it is reactive rather than proactive. More than 200,000 new sites are launched daily, and over 90 percent of them are associated with suspicious activity. Endpoint users, many times unwittingly, access those sites for what they may believe to be legitimate use, calling for solutions that lead to closing the vulnerability window.
Hackers are targeting many of the newer platforms favored by mobile users. According to the Juniper Networks Malicious Mobile Threats Report 2010/2011, there was a 400 percent increase in Android malware between June 2010 and January 2011. So a proactive security solution is essential. The enterprise needs to slam that window of vulnerability shut before the malware gets to the network, not after.
Once malware hits, it quickly damages systems, compromising sensitive company and consumer data in just moments. According to a report from Infonetics Research, large organizations lose an average of 2.2 percent of their annual revenue because of security attacks. Even if there is good perimeter defense, it's quickly compromised if an unsecured endpoint accesses the network.
Devising a defense and pushing it to endpoints after a security threat enters the network via a device is, as a popular Baby Boomer saying goes, "closing the barn door after the horse got out." Although a more appropriate saying, particularly with Trojans, would be "closing the barn door after the horse got in."
By the time a patch or signature can be pushed to the network, the damage is already done and growing quickly the longer it takes IT to detect and patch the hole. So it is essential that the enterprise use a system that detects and intercepts malware before it ever gets to the network.
The better security choice
Closing the vulnerability window happens via the cloud. A superior solution, security in the cloud stops threats where they originate. Such a solution enables the enterprise to:
The security solution should provide:
Closing the threat window by adopting a cloud security solution is the only sensible approach as malware attacks are on the rise. This type of proactive security solution keeps the window of vulnerability shut, protecting the enterprise from the costs and downtime of attempting to purge malware from the network after it has entered through an unsecured PC, laptop, mobile phone, tablet, USB drive or other connection.
By Phil Brit


text:
Aida Moreno – November, 2007
November 17, 2007
THE NATIONAL DANCE COUNCIL OF AMERICA is proud to induct AIDA MORENO into The United States DanceSport Hall of Fame
This life achievement award is given in recognition of your outstanding contribution to dance in the United States.
Your TV productions on PBS have always presented ballroom dancing with dignity, class and excitement.
It's no wonder that there is now a huge national audience that eagerly looks forward each year to ballroom dancing on PBS.
Thank you, Aida, for helping to make dancing a part of so many lives.


text:
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text:
I've had a cold all week. Nothing too bad, just a stuffy nose mostly. Today I woke up with a headache. I took some Advil and felt much better by lunchtime. But I started losing my voice this evening. It was fine this afternoon, but it's now all scratchy and low. I call it my "Demi Moore" voice. I'm pretending that it's sexy. No one needs to correct me and tell me I sound like Roz...
Thursday, February 5, 2009
I'm Losing It!
I've had a cold all week. Nothing too bad, just a stuffy nose mostly. Today I woke up with a headache. I took some Advil and felt much better by lunchtime. But I started losing my voice this evening. It was fine this afternoon, but it's now all scratchy and low. I call it my "Demi Moore" voice. I'm pretending that it's sexy. No one needs to correct me and tell me I sound like Roz...
Posted by Dawn at 7:43 PM
40 comments:
- Ashlee said...
My younger brother and I are six years apart. I am not part of the "texting generation," but he is. It drives me nuts when he leaves comments on my blog with texting language. It is all I can do not to delete it.
- February 5, 2009 at 9:03 PM
- Amanda said...
Aww I am sorry you are sick! Feel better.
And I TOTALLY agree with you about the 'ur' spelling. A little piece of me dies inside when I see that. ;-) The same piece of me that dies when someone uses the wrong form of there, their or they're. It reminds me of the FRIENDS episode when Ross and Rachel have their fight about being on a break.
"By the way, Y-O-U apostrophe R-E means 'you are'. Y-O-U-R means YOUR." C'mon people!
- February 5, 2009 at 9:13 PM
- A Moment in the Life of a Mother said...
HA!! I'm with ya on the texting. Although, I'm finding myself using those crazy abbreviations more and more!! Hope you get your voice back soon. I lose mine every year with the first cold spell. It's really annoying when after 3 weeks all I can do is whisper. Hope yours clears up soon.
- February 5, 2009 at 9:37 PM
My husband always says I sound like Marge Simpson when I'm sick. I don't think that's any better than Roz.
My little sister is 17 (we're 13 years apart). I have to ask her to translate all of her emails. I wonder if she's able to write an English paper.
- February 5, 2009 at 9:56 PM
Actually, the kids-who-can't-spell has already happened. My parents live in Mexico, and there are already remedial spelling classes because of so much texting. And Spanish is spelled the way it sounds! How do you change that into "textese"???
Not to mention our lovely public school system here in the USA. My friend teaches reading to High Schoolers in California... who NEVER learned to read! How do you get to High School without reading? Hmmm...
- February 5, 2009 at 10:20 PM
- Julie Sturgeon said...
To be brief: No, the next generations will not know how to spell. Or talk. But they'll type a mean conversation of acronyms.
- February 5, 2009 at 10:25 PM
- Snowmommy said...
I'm taking online college classes and I can always spot the 18 year olds in the class, they don't use capital letters and they don't know the difference between there and their.
- February 5, 2009 at 10:42 PM
- Sandy in Illinois said...
I was in a conversation recently with a new college graduate who was in her first year of teaching HS English. She said she refused to use a cell phone with texting because her whole working goal was to teach kids English and spelling so she wasn't going to learn the texting language. I wonder if she will win that battle.
- February 5, 2009 at 11:02 PM
My favorite headline EVER in our local paper: "Local Spelling Be Canceled."
Speaks for itself.
- February 5, 2009 at 11:24 PM
- Geev said...
Interesting side-bar, my sons kindergarten teacher said that highschool students can't read or write handwriting, only printing. My 15yo stepson is in that category (and we thought he was just being a teenager) but the reason is because there was a huge push years back for elementary students to learn to use the computer/internet and submit type written papers. Schools are now going back to requiring handwritten homework and I'm sure the next up and coming texting generation will remind our schools to teach proper spelling and grammar.
My question is, why are the schools ignoring the basics?
- February 5, 2009 at 11:29 PM
- neverbeentexted said...
yeah, but don't you remember when email looked like this? no capitalization, no paragraph breaks, etc. nowadays i email with correct orthography, but in college it was a way to be lazy AND rebel against institutionalized learning, which was a double bonus for students who, let's face it, would rather be watching TV than explaining to their english professors that yes, we do know that "they" isn't singular, but that our generation needs a gender neutral option. (as in "if a student knows how to spell, they shouldn't ruin it with texting.") anyway, i've seen as many adults on forums with hideous spelling as teens, so i'll reserve judgment on the texting generation until i'm old and grumpy and allowed to judge to my heart's content.
- February 5, 2009 at 11:35 PM
- Kaitlin said...
Well, I believe kids shouldn't have cell phones until after they have learned proper grammar in grade school. I didn't get a cell phone until I started driving, which was late for my generation. I'm so not looking forward to when I have 3rd graders pulling out their cell phones in my classroom!
- February 5, 2009 at 11:43 PM
Hi Dawn!
I hope you're feeling better. Nothing like giving a talk sounding like a croaking frog.
I think that texting is just the latest thing regarding folks who can't spell. There have ALWAYS been people who can't spell. For instance, I recently read a book about Lewis and Clark's exploration and it contained actual excerpts from their trip journals. The spelling in that was, um, amusing, to say the least.
I think there are some people in this world more attuned to language and grammar, and others who are not. And yes, I think current technology, while it has many benefits, also is contributing to a certain amount of illiteracy.
That much being said, my favorite is when people don't know how to use "its" and "it's" properly. Don't get me started on punctuation. Does anyone ever know how to use a comma, or a semicolon? And run-on sentences! Ack!
Sandy in Tucson
- February 6, 2009 at 12:17 AM
Amen on the text spelling, whatever that is. Sadly, I foresee a day when that will, in fact, be accepted as "normal". Many many young do not know how to spell. Being in the unique position of being back in college in my 30's I get a front row seat at the modern interpretation of spelling.
- February 6, 2009 at 12:23 AM
Haaa! I love Roz!
I'm in my 30's, and some of my friends send me e-mails with no caps, etc. I'm like you, I just can't do it! I like using capital letters when appropriate!
- February 6, 2009 at 12:43 AM
If texting is too much of a hassle, you could always learn sign language. :) I hate it when people use u, ur, and whatever other words that aren't real. That is coming from a deaf person who likes to write in proper English. Oh, by the way, whenever someone in the family loses their voice, they sign! And whenever we went swimming, we could talk to each other underwater. It was fun!
- February 6, 2009 at 1:23 AM
- pehpot said...
Oh here, people are so used to typing words like that.. omitting every letter they can.. since I have been to texting before I am into blogging, I also find it hard to write right or rite words.. LOL
I would love to have an exchange link with you.. I added you on my blog roll and I am now following your blog (I hope you too)
Oh well I also have an award for you at my blog.. :)
- February 6, 2009 at 4:52 AM
- SeriousCat said...
I am a professional proof reader/editor, and more frequently these days I have to bite my lip and think happy thoughts when I get emails from supposedly professional writers AND other proof readers that contain 'ur' and other travesties of mangled grammar.
It makes me sad, even though I know language is an evolving thing, I don't think this is the direction it needs to go.
- February 6, 2009 at 5:01 AM
- Mummy McTavish said...
Ok, I started being a smarty-bum and trying to type my comment in text talk but I had to delete it because even I couldnt read it! My MUM uses it for texting but I take ages to decipher it.
I get a cold and loose my voice straight away, I think it has something to do with two wild boys in the house all day and not being able to stop talking. My friend calls it my phone-sex voice. She always gets a good laugh out of the jokes it can prompt. I don't know if it's available there but Manuka Honey is brilliant! It is mostly used for healing external wounds but it can be dissolved under your tongue for a sore throat too.
- February 6, 2009 at 5:03 AM
- Morrighan said...
I still qualify as part of the "texting generation" but I still can't bring myself to misspell words on purpose in English or my native language. I get ribbed for it by my friends, but I guess I'm just a purist and a defender of proper grammar.
I might use substitutes for longer words to save time and space but I'll deny it anywhere :P
And as a non-native English speaker, I just can't decide if the misuse of "your" and "you're" is a general mistake or a severe allergy to apostrophes. Is it THAT difficult to understand the difference?
And now for a SSO question:
I won't ask for your opinion on recent events since you've been quite clear you don't blog about outside news, and I respect that. But say, what would have been your reaction had you been expecting...say...triplets? (Assuming you weren't on fertility drugs and the chances to naturally conceive more than triplets are very slim).
- February 6, 2009 at 5:04 AM
- Martha said...
I permanently have laryngitis due to a paralyzed vocal cord, and texting from one room to another is done quite frequently in our house! I have to admit I do love texting! I normally spell things out and my almost 12 year old is good about it too! Now when I twitter and I have too much to say I will use "2" in place of two, to or too! No one has to worry about me texting while I drive though... I need my reading glasses to text, and I can't drive with my reading glasses on.... I don't mind being almost 51, I just want my eyes to be what they were 10 years ago!
- February 6, 2009 at 6:01 AM
- Goat Creek Grandma said...
Hope you get to feeling better. I'm over here trying to make a decision on the silly house we found yesterday. Decisions... decisions...
Take care,
- February 6, 2009 at 6:21 AM
- Martha said...
PS I hope your throat feels better!
- February 6, 2009 at 6:40 AM
- TheQueen@TerrorsInTiaras said...
Your spell check blew up--ha! I'm moving to a different planet if they put ur in the dictionary. I can't use it either. My husband teaches mostly juniors and seniors in college and most of them don't know the difference between your and you're and there and their. It drives me crazy! I say give them all F's...He says he's not an English professor...I say do it anyway...He says he's their teacher not me...Oh well...I guess maybe I should have gotten that PhD...Or I should stop violating their student/teacher privacy and reading their papers anyway. Or something. Anyway...I don't like the text stuff either, and good luck with your voice.
- February 6, 2009 at 6:51 AM
- MaBunny said...
/nod to the kids can't spell thing. When I misspell someting its usually due to my typing , NOT my spelling knowledge.
i subbed a class not too long ago - around Veterans day and I had their assignment on the board - it was computer class and they were supposed to make a powerpoint presentation for Veterans Day.
How many kids do you think asked me how to spell Veteran's? EVEN though it was written on the board? ugh it was annoying...
- February 6, 2009 at 7:01 AM
- Wifey Dessert said...
i am so sorry that you are not feeling well!! i am a definate texter but i find myself texting your instead of ur haha...
- February 6, 2009 at 7:51 AM
- Kirsten said...
I hear you, I have trouble even making myself type LOL. :-)
- February 6, 2009 at 7:57 AM
- Adrienne said...
I hope you get your voice back soon...I'm looking forward to seeing/hearing you speak on Saturday. I bet the kids love that you can't yell at them!
- February 6, 2009 at 8:33 AM
- Hypermama said...
'ur' and the extra uses for the 'Z' - whoever made Zis happy as can be with all its new uses in text language.
the next generation won't know how to spell, read or walk...with the pants around the knees. Oh how I wish I was an orthopedic surgeon for when those kids finally pull up their pants and realize its no longer the pants making them walk funny, its the bones! ha ha!
- February 6, 2009 at 9:34 AM
- Eile said...
I am on my 6th week with little o no voice. I hope that yours get better fast!
- February 6, 2009 at 10:47 AM
- Kitchen Vixen said...
At 24, I'm certainly part of that generation, but even in texting, I can't bring myself to use grammatically incorrect spelling. A side note: When I was in 4th or 5th grade, I couldn't spell for my life. My mom went to the principal of my school, in attempt to get me some extra help, and the principal told her that it didn't matter, we'd all have spellcheck on our computers! My mom lost alot of respect for her that day.
- February 6, 2009 at 12:15 PM
Have a great time and good luck, Rah...I mean, Dawn :)
- February 6, 2009 at 12:22 PM
OMG Dawn U R so funny (I don't know textspeak for that word).
- February 6, 2009 at 12:27 PM
- Amy said...
Every time I get a cold, about a week after it goes away for some reason I start sounding just like Roz. I give up!
My kids all want cell phones and I won't give in. I may consider it for my son when he starts to drive, which will probably fall right after his 16th birthday. My feeling is if you don't drive and your friends all have land lines, then you don't need a cell phone. I just got my first "real" cell phone and I'm 37!! I still don't text much, and when I do, I can't bring myself to use text language, I have to spell it all out correctly. That is probably the writer in me. I think texting great when needed, but it can be a waste of time when you could be actually talking to someone.
Hope your voice comes back by Saturday. Feel better soon!:)
- February 6, 2009 at 12:46 PM
- Sarah said...
I'm with you! I hate "textspeak" and "chatspeak" with a passion. I drive my friends crazy by using proper english when I text. I am convinced that it is part of the reason so many people can't spell! It drives me crazy. Right up there with avoiding reading because it's "too much work." Ugh.
- February 6, 2009 at 12:48 PM
Have you noticed that what used to be "Mountain Dew" is now "MTN Dew?"
- February 6, 2009 at 1:10 PM
I am a High School English teacher, and I have to cringe so many times a day at the "spelling" kids use in their journals. For formal papers, though, they at least use spell check (which won't fix everything), but that doesn't help for essay tests in class. I tell them on the first day of school that they're welcome to email me if they're absent or if they need help, but if they use any textese or fail to use the appropriate format (no starting any kind of email with, "Yo," for example), I will not reply. They're all down with that. ;)
Two of my groupies told me that I "pwn noobs" the other day, and the explanation of what they meant took so long, I couldn't even follow it. Apparently, it's a gamer language all its own. If it's that hard to explain, how is that easier? It was a compliment, apparently, but I just don't see it.
I shudder for the future of communicaiton.
- February 6, 2009 at 1:39 PM
- Michelle said...
Well, I can tell you my wee ones will know how to spell at least ;) It's a huge pet peeve of mine, and I've noticed a lot more errors and shortcuts like that in people who work for me who are recently graduated than who have been around for awhile.
Then again... we write one way and talk another, so the hope is that we can make this distinction again. I know there are college lectures/classes talking about this -- particularly for resumes!
Hope you feel better soon, Dawn! Any chicken noodle soup in your future?
- February 6, 2009 at 2:08 PM
My biggest nailbiting words are LOSE and LOOSE. It drives me batty when someone writes, "I need to loose weight." I could scream and I see it at least once a day when reading blogs online. In fact, I've seen it VERY recently...that's all I'm going to say....
- February 6, 2009 at 2:28 PM
- Patois said...
My 12-year-old son seems to "get" that there is a difference between writing and texting. Here's hoping he continues to grasp that concept.
- February 6, 2009 at 7:11 PM


text:
Hollyhock (Alcea rosea) is an old friend to many of us. It is a member of the hibiscus family and closely related to cotton and okra. These biennial or short lived perennial plants are tall and upright and most people remember them from grandma's house next to the barn. Actually, our librarian and outreach coordinator, Pam Mayer, remembers her father calling them "outhouse flowers." Hollyhocks, like Rodney Dangerfield, don't get the respect they deserve!
The large and lovely blossoms grow from large prominent buds borne singly up the stem. Each bloom remains open three or four days during late spring and early summer. As the four-week long blooming season progresses, the bloom front advances towards the top of the leafless stems.
Vickie Baumer, a graduate student working at the Missouri State Fruit Experiment this summer, told me that children can make little dolls out of the flowers by clipping connecting an unopened bud for the head and an upside-down flower for the dress. Hollyhock doll dresses come in pink, purple, yellow, white and even black. Single-flowered hollyhock blooms are to 3 inches across and have a protruding stamen column typical in the hibiscus family. The flowers produce large quantities of seed in round, flattened capsules. Double flowering types that look like pom-pom shower scrubbers are also available.
A native of Asia, the single flowered type was brought to England by the Crusaders during the middle ages. The Anglo-Saxon name for mallow, a related European species used for medicine, was "hoc." The name "hollyhock" developed from the original "holy hoc" brought home from the Holy Wars. Later, during the 1800s, the hollyhock became a favorite in Victorian gardens.
Even though hollyhocks are prone to problems such as rust, leaf spot, anthracnose, spider mites and Japanese beetles, they are easy to grow in sunny sites with fertile soil. Plants started in pots in the winter will flower the first season, but those that are sown outdoors in midsummer will flower the following spring. Individual plants may only live two years, but they will re-seed readily. Hollyhocks are tall and may require staking where they are not protected by a building or fence.
So show these lovely, old fashioned "outhouse" flowers a little respect. They can brighten up a cottage garden or perennial border as well as frame and anchor an out building or cottage and are absolutely beautiful in the right setting.


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Legendary Croatian striker Mirko Cro Cop has been examined by an ophthalmologist in Indianapolis, site of Saturday's UFC 119 event at Conseco Fieldhouse, and has been medically cleared to compete in the main event this weekend against former two-time heavyweight champion Frank Mir.
Cro Cop suffered a poke in the eye in the last round of his final sparring session for the bout last week, but after a few days of rest, he is in tip top shape for this pivotal battle of heavyweight contenders.
Cro Cop Gets Doc's OK for 119
Cro Cop Cleared and Ready for Mir Bout
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Tuesday, July 17