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Sunday, April 24, 2011
Soma's Fab in 650B! A Test Ride of the Buena Vista Mixte
Soma Fabrications is a small manufacturer of bicycle frames and components based in San Francisco. Their Taiwanese-built frames are steel and more or less classic, with modern elements. The Buena Vista model is a TIG-welded mixte with twin lateral stays, available in four sizes from XS (42cm) to XL (58cm). It is a versatile frame with "sports touring" geometry that can be built up either as a roadbike or as a city bike, either with a derailleur or with an internally geared hub, and either with 700C or with 650B wheels.
Grand Bois Hetres, which make for a very comfortable ride. Soma specifies a maximum 38mm tire width for 650B wheels on the Buena Vista, but their estimate is overly conservative: The 42mm Hetres fit fine, including fenders. That is a useful piece of information for those who like wide tires and are choosing between, say, the Soma Buena Vista and the Rivendell Betty Foy. These two frames allow for the same tire width.
Surly frames we recently examined. I think that welding marks are more noticeable on a mixte than on a diamond frame, simply because there are more joints to connect.
DIY mount.
Based on Soma's online description, I expected the handling to be aggressive - but it was not. It did not handle like a "converted roadbike" as some mixtes do, but like an actual upright city bike. Given that I had the saddle lower than Mrs. Somervillain, the handlebars were too high for my taste and the front end felt lighter than I like. Still, I felt safe and confident riding this bicycle in traffic right away. The Buena Vista was maneuverable and responsive - but easy to control, and predictable. The frame felt stiff-ish, but the wide Grand Bois Hetre tires took the edge off, making for a comfortable ride on and off road. It must also be noted that this bicycle was put together impeccably - which greatly contributed to my feeling of safety and comfort on it.
I have test ridden only two other modern-production mixte bicycles besides the Soma: the Rivendell Betty Foy and the Trek Belleville WSD. The Trek is not even in the same universe, and on just about every level I can think of the Soma is a better bike. The Rivendell, on the other hand, is a more comparable bicycle, and I even test rode the Betty Foy in the same frame size and with the same wheel size as the Buena Vista. Though over all, the Betty Foy is a more comfortable ride, the difference is not as great as I had anticipated. The Buena Vista is a bit harsher on bumps, and the stepover height of the mixte stays is a good inch or two higher than on the Betty Foy of the same size. But otherwise, they did not feel like radically different bicycles.
see here for the complete build). While everyone's idea of what constitutes "good value" differs, this could certainly fit the bill. More than anything, I recommend this bicycle for those seeking an economical way to build up a bike with 650B x 42mm tires. In that sense, the Buena Vista is a rare and excellent find.
103 comments:
I'm guessing the loss of momentum on hills had more to do with the 42mm tires than with the frame geometry or hub gearing. When I switched from 32mm to 50mm tires on a bike it pretty much erased my momentum on hills. That's just the nature of fatties.ReplyDelete
Somervillain, did the headset come with that rubber stopper in the headset bolt hole?ReplyDelete
It looks like an attractive, above-average grocery-getter...and a pretty good value as well. Thanks for writing about it!ReplyDelete
did the headset come with that rubber stopper in the headset bolt hole. Yep, it did.ReplyDelete
- Alfred FickensherApril 24, 2011 at 9:59 AM
With the caveat that this commenter's favorite bike is a customized old Schwinn Suburban, I think this bike overall is rather attractive looking.ReplyDelete
Dennis, I'd say the sum of the parts on this bike is significantly superior to that of an above average grocery getter.ReplyDelete
Hey, 28lbs with an 8-speed hub and fatties is very cool, I think. Opens up questions about putting these on light road bike. I always wondered how that would feel.ReplyDelete
This looks like a very careful build. Did you find the Shimano hub easy to adjust? I have a lot of experience messing with SA but not so much other brands. Every time I see a Shimano hub it seems there is yet another new way the shifter cable comes in. This particular hub looks fairly clean, no plastic shifter box. Man, if that braze-on was just a few inches further out, you could just plug in into that!
Did you have to get a raiser stem or did the steerer tube come tall like this? It looks like you inverted the VO stem. Looks almost like the classic "7" I had to do a double-take. :)
I think you should move the bell to the headset spacers, drill/tap them. It will look awesome, break up the long neck visually and be much easier to use too. I would use a shifter boss cap with the barrel adjuster removed to cover the left DT boss. That would make it symmetrical with the right side.
Isn't it so awesome and easy to work on new/modern frames and use new components? So much fun. :)
FYI I've added a paragraph toward the end comparing the Buena Vista to other current-production mixtes I've tried.ReplyDelete
Adam said...
"I'm guessing the loss of momentum on hills had more to do with the 42mm tires than with the frame geometry or hub gearing."
Definitely not. These tires are famously fast.
somervillain--how do you like the VO-built wheels on their rims?ReplyDelete
UPDATE: Velouria mentioned that I had chosen the crankset based on its ability to pay nicely with a VO porteur chaincase. I've since installed the chaincase, and photos of it can be seen here:ReplyDelete
Installing a VO porteur case is not for the faint of heart, and I don't generally recommend it, since there are too many variables that will generally preclude it from working well on 75% of bikes (chainline issues, crank arm issues, BB issues, etc...). And when it does work, clearances are very tight. Personally, I don't care for the appearance of the case on this bike, and I also have a genuine vintage aluminum French chainguard that I considered using instead. However, Mrs. 'Villain has never licked chain guards, and they rarely protect your pant cuffs from getting chain grease on them (and I agree with this). So the choice of the porteur case was made strictly as a matter of functionality.
MDI- The Shimano hub makes it easy to inspect and adjust the cable: in 4th gear you look for two yellow lines to line up. If they're not lined up, simply use the barrel adjuster on the shifter or cable stop to adjust. You noticed about the derailleur braze-on. Yeah, I SO wanted to use it, but the cable housing angle would have been way too sharp. I had to find a vintage cable stop to work there; they're impossible to find new.
The steerer tube actually came taller than what you see-- I cut it down about 1cm, and may cut it down further once Mrs. 'Villain settles in and fine tunes the fit. The stem is designed to be used in either direction: note the laser etched insignia is represented in both directions! This way, if we cut the steerer down and later regret it, at least we can flip the stem for a few more cm of rise. I do like this particular orientation, as it is closer to the classic "7".
Moving the bell to the headset would definitely make practical sense. I may look into putting the other cable stop on the DT braze-on and see how it looks.
Adam: I agree with Velouria, it's not likely to be the tires. It may be the hub, as well as the riding position. This hub is known for not being particular efficient in some of the lower gears. There is definitely mechanical resistance that may contribute to the phenomenon that Velouria described. (For the record, I wanted Mrs. 'Villain to go with a derailleur setup, but she really wanted the IGH + porteur case).ReplyDelete
MDI: The VO-built wheels are okay, and I'm guessing they're machine-built. They are not as well built as a hand-built wheel from Anthony King, or Peter White, or any of those guys who have been building wheels for ages. Then again, for the price, it was definitely worth it (both wheels were 20% off). I put them on the truing stand and re-tensioned them slightly before putting them on the bike.
Somervillain - Neat, I think the chaincase looks good! What don't you like about it? I too have heard that in practice, these are almost impossible to install, as chances are they will conflict with something or other on the bike. Glad to hear you were able to overcome all of this. As far as you know, is there a modern crankset that will accommodate it?ReplyDelete
Probably Sugino RD2 track with ring moved to inner position should work as well as this?ReplyDelete
V: I think it makes the bike too "busy", and it's monolithic. Perhaps if it were painted to match the bike, it would blend in more and be a little more inconspicuous (that was my plan with the Jeunet, but even on a REAL French bike, I had chainline issues that precluded it from working).ReplyDelete
[As a side note, I had to pay an auto body shop $20 to strip the sage green powder coating before I installed it on the Mrs' bike!]
V and M: For any crankset to work, the ring has to be moved to the inner position, as MDI notes. But the other major criterion for a crankset to work is that the gap between the spider and the arm be sufficiently wide for the case to fit between, leaving a couple of millimeters on either side. If the case is too close to either the spider or the arm, it may scrap as you pedal, especially if the frame or crankset flexes under hard pedaling. I test-fitted three vintage cranks, and only this one worked, with clearances that I felt comfortable with. The Q factor is 164-- not too bad, and there certainly are triples out there with much wider Q factors, so I think I got lucky with this one!
OKB: good points. I'll adress a few:ReplyDelete
B17: remember that Mrs. S has much longer legs than V. The seat post is all the way down for V, but normally it is positioned about 4" higher. Mrs. S will not be as upright as V. She may also want to lower the bars eventually... who knows. We also happened to have this saddle in my parts bin, and may consider the B67 as you mentioned if the B17 is not comfortable.
Dropout spacing: Soma thought this one through, it's 132.5, so it can accommodate either a road hub (130mm), an IGH (132mm), or a mtb hub (135mm).
Brake mount: I believe the brake can be mounted in either orientation, which is probably why they chose to located the cable stop openings in the center of the stays. I briefly considered mounting it "upside down", but felt that the caliper would look funny that way. Functionally, it doesn't make a difference either way.
This is a nice looking bike, and those fat tires would seem to be very comfortable on rough city streets and/or hauling a load. Thanks to Somervillian for sharing it with you to review.ReplyDelete
The Brooks B17 seems out of place on this 'upright' riding bicycle. Maybe a B67 or other would be more appropriate.
The pedals look nice enough but I prefer a cage that is curved along the outside edge for safety reasons. FIRST) When cornering with the inside pedal low, if you get pedal strike on the low side, a curved cage is just going to scrape along the pavement, where as a squared up outside edge of the pedal may bite into the pavement. May be an issue with a lower set-up found on the 650B's. SECOND) If your foot slips off of the pedal (when wet maybe), as you are pushing down, there is a chance of tearing your ankle up pretty good. I have a buddy who did just this and cut through a couple of tendons which required ~ 25 stitches and more than a few months of healing. A real mess for just slipping off of the pedal!
MDI said...
"Man, if that braze-on was just a few inches further out, you could just plug in into that!"
I noticed that right away. Good 'heads-up' for frame builders out there to locate braze-on's to accommodate both types of gear changers by just moving the braze-on a bit. Building to accommodate multiple set-ups is a clever trick!
Speaking of which, the rear brake set-up seems to be mounted above the stays on this mixte where you often see them below. Was there a reason for this? I mention this because I was thinking the cable and housing that passes through the last frame cross member before getting to the rear brake, could be offset to the side that the cable housing runs from, to the brake adjustment barrel on the caliper, rather than in the middle. (Although this argument may run counter to what I just said above about building to accommodate different set ups ...i.e. rear brake mounted below stays with barrel adjuster on opposite side. So having the hole centered in the cross brace would accommodate both...)
I'm still waking up...
I'm wondering if the rear drop out spacing could also accommodate a hub that was both internal gearing as well as internal drum brake. Are there considerations to make when sizing for that? Or is there a standard 135mm ...140mm spacing in the back that frame builders and component manufactures know and build to?
Nice bike for an Easter Sunday drive (virtually or really)! Are those the blossoms of a Cherry tree I see in the photos or maybe a Crab Apple tree? We don't see much of those in Southern California!
Re the B17: The one on this particular bike was nicely broken in, so it was okay for short distances, but did start to hurt after mile 10.ReplyDelete
Even on my own mixte though, where the saddle is level with the handlebars, I don't find the B17 comfortable and have the B72 installed. But not everyone feels that way - plenty of mixtes out there with B17 saddles and narrower.
Mrs. S has had lots of problems with saddles in the past, so some experimentation may be necessary here!ReplyDelete
This is a very tasteful build; the mud flap gives the bike a rando street cred. I have that bell, formerly on my stem mounted to a spacer, but it dinged so much over rough roads I had to take it off. Kids from all over would run towards me, expecting ice cream treats.ReplyDelete
The bike has a light quality to it in contrast to the chaincase. If Mrs. SV ever gets tired of it there are those plasticky black chain condom thingies that look like a belt that are supposed to be fairly quiet.
SOMA is local to us and good peeps; Mrs. GR is friendly with them. Odd name, though - their world HQ is located somewhere in the fog on the head badge, whereas the SOMA neighborhood is in a different biosphere entirely.
The fog flowing over Twin Peaks on the head badge juxtaposed with the frame's model, Buena Vista, is one of those ironies the locals and tourists recognize all too well: where's the view after all?
"I'm guessing the loss of momentum on hills had more to do with the 42mm tires than with the frame geometry or hub gearing."ReplyDelete
I use the Nexus 8 and 42mm Hetres on my camping bike. The Hetres are pretty decent climbers, imo. They're pretty special tires. The weight of the Nexus 8 does make hills harder, though--at least for me.
Velouria--As for the gearing range, you can use Sheldon's IGH gear calculator and swap values for the rear cog to find which gives you the gearing you want. SJS in the UK has a nice selection of cogs for the Nexus 8 if you can't find anything locally. Overall, the gearing range will always be relatively limited for the Nexus 8, but at least you can get the gear inches/ratios you want. I run a 46/23 on my camping bike. It gives me a low low, but also a pretty low high gear. That's okay, as the top-end gearing isn't so important to me on a camping bike.
$1200 for a complete bike and not a dime for a chain guard??ReplyDelete
What's up with that???????
A question for somervillain: Why use a cable stop on the chainstay at all? On my wife's mixte (not a soma...) I just ran the bare inner cable straight from the bottom bracket cable guide into the cassette joint guide. The rub of the cable on the cassette joint is pretty minimal, and a piece of cable housing liner would alleviate that if one is so inclined.ReplyDelete
Lee - It's not the gear range, but the fact that I find myself switching gears way too much within the range, if that makes sense.ReplyDelete
GR Jim said "their world HQ is located somewhere in the fog on the head badge, whereas the SOMA neighborhood is in a different biosphere entirely"ReplyDelete
I would argue that the view of the Sutro tower on Twin Peaks is what you SEE from SOMA. This was similar to my view of Twin Peaks from where I used to live in Duboce Triangle, very close to SOMA. Those fog banks tumble down, but rarely make it all the way down to the sunny side of town.
I love that head badge, and it makes me miss my former SF home.
OKB - pedal strike with MKS touring pedals is not an issue on this bike; the bottom bracket is sufficiently high even with the 650B conversion.ReplyDelete
Aside from that, I would argue that curved road pedals are not the best choice for a bike that is meant to be used for transportation. Even for those worried about pedal strike, there are other choices, such as the narrower MKS Stream pedals and the quite narrow VO city pedals.
- AnonymousApril 24, 2011 at 4:41 PM
Just wondering how tall you are/what you normally ride? I'm getting ready to build up a buena vista for my wife, but I can't decide on the 54/58 frame. She is quite tall (5'9"), but prefers a more upright position. Any input? It will have 700c rims. Thanks!ReplyDelete
Anon 4:41 - I am 5'7" and normally ride a 54cm mixte (if measured c-t as Soma does it). At 5'9" your wife should definitely get the 58cm frame. You can set the handlebars as high as you like using the large spacers.ReplyDelete
- AnonymousApril 24, 2011 at 5:14 PM
Okay. The reason I ask is it seems the virtual top tube is quite long on the Soma vs other mixtes so I didn't want to run into problems there. I was originally going to build up a cross check for her and was considering the 54 there due to the long top tube, but I guess with the mixte there is more room for error on the large end since I can add spacers and will likely use bars the head backwards (sparrow, albatross, etc.) vs. drops. Thanks for the comments!ReplyDelete
(i.e. Anon 4:41 :))
Oh yeah, long tube is AWESOME for city bars like some dove and albatross, etc. They go way back and would poke me square in the gut as I try to turn if the stem/toptube aren't long enough.ReplyDelete
- Christopher FotosApril 24, 2011 at 6:16 PM
As a very happy owner of a Soma Smoothie ES, it's great to see one of its sister frames reviewed here. Interesting comment about 650s eliminating toe overlap. I don't think I had ever experienced it on earlier bikes, and hardly ever with my Smoothie ES, until soon after a post on the subject here! And I did it a lot (relatively speaking) during my first extended city-biking (Washington DC) tour.ReplyDelete
The head badge some of you like so much is new to this year's models or last's. Also if you go looking for the Smoothie ES on their site, that model is now just called the ES (extra smooth!)
Brandon - Has she test ridden the 54cm Surly Cross Check? Here is me riding one. IMO it would be too small for someone her height. And I agree with MDI that Albatross bars are perfect for bikes with long top tubes.ReplyDelete
- AnonymousApril 24, 2011 at 6:58 PM
Thanks so much MDI and Velouria. She has not test ridden one, but based on my calcs I thought it would work best. Knowing your size and seeing you on that I think a 56 cross check would be better. It's hard because you go into the forums and it's all dudes and I think we tend to like throwing the seat up and being stretched out into the drops is best. But I know this wouldn't be ideal for her. So I can't tell you how much your input helps. I now feel totally comfortable buying the 58. I want to build this up as a surprise which is why I'm trying to work this out without heading to the LBS. Thanks!ReplyDelete
- KirstenApril 24, 2011 at 7:31 PM
Great info! I also want to purchase one of these for a fast road build, but have been undecided as to size.ReplyDelete
With a height of 5'9" and an inseam of 34", I'm all legs. I feel most comfortable on a 22" (56cm) frame, but can ride the other half's 24" frames (equipped with on one Mary bars) if I stretch out, which is less comfortable.
Since I want to use the Lauterwasser bars, I've been leaning towards the 54cm model, but am worried it will be too small, while the 58cm model may be too large. Input, anyone?
Very very interesting. I will be building up my Velo Orange mixte frame this summer, so I really can't get enough of the mixte build posts. Thanks for sharing this one.ReplyDelete
Kirsten, there are too many variables to know for sure. You need to know exactly what the top tube length is on your 56cm, then your stem length, then the distance from the end of the stem to where you like to put your hands on the bars. It looks like the 54cm Buena has a 56cm top tube, but chances are the Lauterwassers are way different than the bars on your 56, so that throws everything off.ReplyDelete
Cheapest way to determine your frame size is to get the Lauterwassers, put them on your 56 and fiddle with them until you're comfortable. Then measure everything to get top tube and stem lengths you prefer.
If you're building the fast road bike to go long distances the Lauterwassers may not work well due to not having many positions to put your hands. In town trips they're probably fine.
I love the new Lauterwassers re-release, but as GR Jim points out, their practical application is limited. It's like building up a long distance bike with track bars: they may be beautiful, but there is nowhere to keep your hands but the drops. If you want something aggressive-ish and vintage looking, I recommend mounting some Albatross bars upside down and covering the entire bar with tape, like this.ReplyDelete
Beautiful mixte! :)ReplyDelete
Though, I have to admit to a bit of jealousy when I see so many beautiful bikes built up for people's wives. I guess one of the downsides to living alone is that there is no one to build lovely bikes for you! Hopefully all the recipients appreciate the work that goes into these presents!
- KirstenApril 24, 2011 at 9:20 PM
Thanks V. & GR Jim. Looks like I'm in for some experimentation, but should be fun and informative.ReplyDelete
A question for somervillain: Why use a cable stop on the chainstay at all? On my wife's mixte (not a soma...) I just ran the bare inner cable straight from the bottom bracket cable guide into the cassette joint guide. The rub of the cable on the cassette joint is pretty minimal, and a piece of cable housing liner would alleviate that if one is so inclined.ReplyDelete
Mark: What a great idea, I hadn't thought of just running the bare cable right into the hub cassette! I may try that.
neighbourtease - Has your VO mixte frame been repainted yet? I am so curious to see the result!ReplyDelete
Very nice build.ReplyDelete
Of course, I have seen photos of Somervillain's other bikes and would expect nothing less. I'm curious about how this frame stacks up to the VO mixte.
Velouria, your comments about the Shimano IGH got me wondering about how a cassette, hub and rear derailleur weigh compared to an IGH.
When you pick up a Sturmey-Archer 3 speed for the first time it feels like it weighs a ton. Then again, a cassette/multispeed freewheel has some mass as well.
"Lee - It's not the gear range, but the fact that I find myself switching gears way too much within the range, if that makes sense."ReplyDelete
Velouria--What I mean is you can calculate the gear inches for those gears you use a lot on a derailleur-equipped bike, like your Sam H. Then, try to find a cog/chainwheel combination for the Nexus 8 that gives you some of those same gear inches options.
For instance, from riding my single-speed and derailleur bikes, I know that I like 44 and 54 gear inches for hills and rollers, and 66 and 72 gear inches for my normal cruising gears. So, after some calculating, I decided to outfit my Nexus 8 bike with a 46-tooth chainwheel and 23-tooth rear cog. That gives me 44, 52, 64, and 74 gear inch options among the 8 gears. Not exact fits, but not too different feeling.
So, if you have an IGH bike and you don't like your gear choices, you can change the size of the cog or chainwheel you are using to get different gear inches options. Cogs are cheaper than chainwheels, so I would look to change that first.
Lee - Is it weird or unusual that my preferred gear inches differ depending on the bike? For instance, knowing my ideal gear inches on the Rivendell is not helpful for figuring out my ideal gear inches on my more aggressive fixed gear roadbike, and equally unhelpful for figuring them out for an upright bike. I find that I have to experiment for each bike in its own right, unless we are talking about near identical bicycles.ReplyDelete
But moreover, I still don't understand how this applies to what I am experiencing with this hub. Are you saying that my ideal gear inches for this bike happen to be in between the gears it gives me, and replacing the rear cog could fix this? I don't think that's it. For example, it's not as if I feel a " the 5th gear is too low but the 6th is too high" sort of thing. It's more like the gears don't feel as "versatile" as they do on other bikes. Whereas on another mixte I could cover the same mildly hilly route in a single gear, on this bike I switched between a range of at least 3 gears back on forth on the same route in order to cycle as comfortably. That does not seem related to gear inches, but more to an inefficiency of some sort.
- AnonymousApril 25, 2011 at 1:25 AM
it could simply be that the bike was not set up properly for you during your test ride. handlebars too high, seat too low, or the relationship between them not quite right. maybe that could create an inefficient feeling. ?ReplyDelete
The handlebars being too high was my initial theory. But then I looked at my Riv Betty Foy testride pictures and the setup is pretty similar: I also shoved the saddle down without bothering to lower the bars. Yet I did not experience the same weird gearing thing with that bike. So I have two possible hypotheses: Either it's the hub gearing, or there is something specific to the Soma's geometry that becomes rapidly less efficient with upright bars, whereas Riv's geometry does not. A combination of both could of course be the case as well.ReplyDelete
Different bikes have different efficiencies and require different optimal gearing. That you had to shift a lot means either the bike or your position isn't as efficient as you Royal.ReplyDelete
I'm tired but maybe tomorrow I'll write some more on this.
Hmm... Maybe you could accessorise the bike with cherry blossoms.ReplyDelete
It sounds like this bike is what the Trek Belleville pretends to be, or what people who don't know any better might think they're getting when they buy it.
Velouria, as per what you say about the Lauterwasser, I cannot ride track bars for more than about half an hour. I sometimes ride my fixie for longer than that, which is the reason why it has road bars.
V, I haven't had it stripped yet. I'm still deciding between having it chromed and a couple of colors. I will definitely send photos!ReplyDelete
I really think it's the hub in this case-- others have reported that, while the 300% gear range from low to high is great, the spacing between the gears is not evenly distributed, so it's hard to find the right gear to match your preferred cadence as you speed up or slow down. In addition, there are mechanical inefficiencies (i.e., drag) that are worse in some gears and better in others-- I think either Shimano published this somewhere, or it was a lab test done by Jan Heine/BQ. Let me go back through some issues to see if I can find it...ReplyDelete
But I think these things might account for Velouria's experience of not being able to find the "right" gear when she wanted it.
"Are you saying that my ideal gear inches for this bike happen to be in between the gears it gives me, and replacing the rear cog could fix this? I don't think that's it. For example, it's not as if I feel a " the 5th gear is too low but the 6th is too high" sort of thing. It's more like the gears don't feel as "versatile" as they do on other bikes."ReplyDelete
Velouria--Yes, that's what I was saying. But I realize now that that's not what you were experiencing! Sorry for taking the discussion off on this tangent, then.
- AnonymousApril 25, 2011 at 8:56 AM
Somervillain builds such nifty bikes. I wish he owed me a big favor...ReplyDelete
Justine Valinotti said...ReplyDelete
"It sounds like this bike is what the Trek Belleville pretends to be, or what people who don't know any better might think they're getting when they buy it."
Yes, I think that is a fair way to describe it. The Soma is an economical, welded version of a classic lugged mixte. But it is well made and I would be hard pressed to find anything critical to say about its quality or geometry.
MT cyclist said...
"I'm curious about how this frame stacks up to the VO mixte."
The VO mixte is (or was, since it's now sold out) a fully lugged classic mixte frame at the same price as the Soma. To me, that makes it a more desirable frame. But I do not know how it handles, what its clearances will allow, etc., in comparison to the Soma. I am pretty sure the VO mixte will not allow for 650Bx42mm tires for instance, so for those who want that specifically it would not be the right bike.
somervillain said...ReplyDelete
"I really think it's the hub in this case-- others have reported that, while the 300% gear range from low to high is great, the spacing between the gears is not evenly distributed, so it's hard to find the right gear to match your preferred cadence as you speed up or slow down. In addition, there are mechanical inefficiencies (i.e., drag) that are worse in some gears and better in others..."
This is very much in line with my experience of 7+ speed hubs, and the reason why I do not like them. I do not feel the same inefficiencies with 3 speed hubs, and I do not feel them with derailleurs, so for me those are my two preferred gearing methods.
I am curious why what you are describing is not more widely acknowledged. When I mention that I prefer derailleurs for touring, a very common response is "Ah but you can get the same gear inches on an IGH, you don't need a derailleur for touring!" If there are inefficiencies that limit the actual performance of the hub, then I feel it is misleading to compare a hub's to a derailleur's gearing by merely comparing gear inches.
I'm a little confused by your statement, "While a 58cm frame is usually too big for me, I was able to fit this one because of the 650B wheels." I would assume (maybe wrongly) that standover height is not an issue on a mixte. Otherwise, nothing about the fit changes with the swap to 650b. I usually consider the "cockpit" to be the most essential fit variable, both in terms of toptube length and seat/handlebar height relationship. Were you using "fit" only in the broadest, "I can technically ride this bike without killing myself" sense?
V, I agree completely. The key thing here is that Mrs. S wanted an IGH for convenience, and I of course insisted on one with at least 300% range, since you are well familiar with the hills near our house, AND the fact that this bike will be pulling a trailercycle. Aside from a NuVinci hub which would have nearly doubled the price (and weight?) of this bike, this hub was the ticket, all shortcomings notwithstanding.ReplyDelete
Mrs. S already has a Sturmey Archer 3-speed hub on her Dutch bike, and it's adequate for casual cafe hopping and date nights, but other than that, the bike sits unused, largely because of the gearing limitation.
One comment in Shimano's defense: they even state in their product literature that the hub needs time to "break in", during which time you may feel and/or hear mechanical noises (which I definitely felt/heard). I suspect that the hub is built with much greater precision and tighter tolerances than an SA hub, and it may need to actually wear in a bit to become more efficient. This is similar to a modern car engine, which becomes more efficient after the initial break-in period.
I'm curious about what Velouria, Somervillain and others feel would be the pros and cons about setting up this bike with a 3-speed SA hub vs. (e.g.) a double derailleur (e.g. 8 x 2 or 9 x 2?)ReplyDelete
I found this ride report and the discussion in comments totally inspiring (I told myself that I have already "enough" bikes, but if I get tenure and stay where I am... hmmm... fantasizing about trying a larger-size bike than I have so far: maybe a 50 cm frame with 650B wheels and some kind of porteur-ish handlebars.)
Erik - seat tube length. Look how low I have the saddle. If the seat tube was 2cm longer, I wouldn't be able to get on and off.ReplyDelete
I think the inefficiences amount to something like 5-10% of your pedaling work lost with some hubs as opposed to 1-5% lost with derailers. It's possible that some hub gears are worse than 10%, of course, I heard that not all gears in a hub are equally efficient, but don't recall who, what, or where.ReplyDelete
I've seen some of Sheldon's hub gear info spreads, as well as manufacturer charts and it seems that many hubs have reasonably spaced gears and some have nearly exact percentage changes in gear inches from gear-to-gear.
So while I don't have a full explanation, my guess is that gear hubs are generally put on bicycles that also have a particular geometry. I think your body's position when pedaling is the single most important factor, overruling bike weight and hub/derailer differences. I think if we hypothetically replaced the Bianchi's rear wheel with a hub, or the Hillborne's you would not feel much difference in how these bikes perform on our usual routes.
In fact, I have long wanted to build up a very aggressive light road bike with an IGH. It would be quite neat. For extra credit, it could have internal brakes too (I'd have to test whether this combo can stop, of course.)
No Nickname said...ReplyDelete
"I'm curious about what Velouria, Somervillain and others feel would be the pros and cons about setting up this bike with a 3-speed SA hub vs. (e.g.) a double derailleur (e.g. 8 x 2 or 9 x 2?)"
The frustrating truth is, that we just don't know without experimenting. I've ridden my Bella Ciao 3-speed to places like West Newton and Lexington - which are fairly hilly areas outside of Boston - using only gears 3 and 2. I've ridden through the same areas on the Mercier and Motobecane mixtes I used to own without switching gears at all. And I've attempted to ride to the same areas on my Pashley (which had a 7-speed hub), but it was truly horrible.
My instinct tells me that lowering the handlebars on Somervillain's Soma and sticking a 3-speed hub in it would improve its performance by making it both simpler and more efficient. But the idea of a 3-speed hub feeling better than an 8-speed is so counterintuitive, that I would not expect anybody to actually spend money on doing something like that.
An 8x2 derailleur would of course be great as well (as would a 1x8). But if Mrs. S wants an IGH city bike for easy maintenance, it would sort of defeat the purpose.
Also, everyone's situation in unique and the Somervillains live on top of a hill the steepness of which is formidable. It's a brief, but basically vertical hill. I think that while an 8-speed hub may be not the most efficient set-up overall, for that hill specifically its lower gears will be quite useful - and that may very well outweigh the other inconveniences.
Yes, I see what you mean both about the need for experimentation and the specifics of what Mrs S wants/needs - the IGH for convenience in a city bike, and a low range that can cope with the local hill! But that's a helpful analysis of some of the considerations. Thanks!ReplyDelete
Re: IGH inefficiencies - I have a feeling that those who ride IGHs don't care about outright speed, or don't know what a faster bike feels like so it's ok or just don't want to deal with derailleur maintenance.ReplyDelete
I recently rode a transport bike I bought for my brother because it has all the cool stuff: hub generator, IGH, blah blah. It's got a very stiff, efficient alu frame. It felt like riding through sand, there was so much drag.
The other main mechanical inefficiency is the frame. You are comparing a $400 mass-produced item to your, I'm guessing, over $2k very carefully built magic carpet ride with very specific hand-selected tubing, brazed and aligned to very tight tolerances.
As a general comment with some applicability here, though you might think you're in the same position while comparing A to B, most definitely you aren't. When you get hooked up to a giant Retul machine that measures your power output with sensors all over your body that measure angles, you realize very, very minor changes effect how much power you can create. Things like a 5mm saddle adjustment in height or setback can make your effort less taxing.
I remember the owner of VO discouraging someone on a comment thread from putting 650b tires on the VO mixte (mmmm . . . sacrilicious, I would say), so perhaps it could have them, though maybe not so wide as the hetres.ReplyDelete
I am going to use 700c on mine because I personally prefer how they look on a very classic mixte.
- Peppy (the twittering cat)April 25, 2011 at 11:38 AM
You like the all wheels no body (all legs no torso) look, huh? :)ReplyDelete
I knows, V has that on her mixte.
- AnonymousApril 25, 2011 at 12:01 PM
I saw an article in Bicycle Quarterly about the energy output needed for different versions of the 8 speed IGH. It quoted data from Shimano plus some BQ measurements. If nobody comes up with the reference before then I will post it when I get home tonight.ReplyDelete
I'm looking for an IGH solution for next winter commuting. This year did me in for derailleur/chain maintenance. Harris recommends not using the 8 speed due to freezing grease lubricant. That leaves a three speed or the new 11 speed, both of which use oil. The three speed is a problem for my fitness and knees, I need to spin. The problem is I would very much like to see some experience based reviews of the 11 speed. It is an expansive experiment. Anyone using the Shimano 11 speed IGH?
RJD - I could be wrong, but I remember ecovelo had a post about the Shimano 11 speed IGH, with some owners chiming in. Can't seem to find it.ReplyDelete
- KirstenApril 25, 2011 at 12:05 PM
Regarding IGH inefficiency: Though I love my NuVinci N360 and find it indispensable for everyday cycling in all weathers, there are some days when it feels like I'm slogging through quicksand. But to me, the utility outweighs any inefficiencies. Others are fully entitled to their differing opinions.ReplyDelete
Kirsten - for a bike that is meant to be used as an urban transportation bicycle, I agree entirely.ReplyDelete
Looks like your wife is going to be really happy, that's a great build. As usual a great review and critique by Veloria as well.
Thanks, Marc. You know where I got my inspiration for this bike :-).ReplyDelete
FWIW Mrs. GR would have an IGH if she didn't have a designated muck scraper - me. I enjoy restoring it on a periodic basis. Plus she gets to experience the New Bike Feeling every few months.
"Erik - seat tube length. Look how low I have the saddle. If the seat tube was 2cm longer, I wouldn't be able to get on and off."ReplyDelete
I guess that I just don't get how the change in wheel size affects this. When I get on and off, it is by standing on the pedal, and lifting myself on or off of the seat (with the height from pedal to seat remaining constant independent from wheel size). In the past, you've mentioned that you have a curious mount/dismount style, so this must be the difference. Oh well...the thread seems to have run away with IGH discussion, anyhow.
Erik - Not everyone can mount a bicycle in that manner. Some need to be able to reach the ground with the tip of a toe in order to feel comfortable stopping and starting. I, for one, am of that category.ReplyDelete
Smaller wheels lower the bicycle's minimal saddle height.
Erik-- the 650B wheels with 42mm Hetres lower the bike about 9mm compared with 700C wheels with 32mm tires, the maximum width tire you can fit on this bike. But nominally, the bike was designed for 28mm wide tires. Therefore the bike as built up sits about 5mm lower than it was designed to.ReplyDelete
To be fair, for the 5-10mm to matter your saddle has to basically sit on top of the seat tube, as it were. If you have 1-2" of seat post showing then all is well if you go 650B->700C and back.ReplyDelete
I think the coolest thing about 650B conversions is that they have virtually no theoretical drawbacks, only positives, except for the "cost," which does not apply to new builds.
1. TCO--it helps when you're a borderline case
2. ride quality--it helps--you can fit cushier, wider rubber than what you could fit with 700c
3. slightly lower BB--usually improves comfort
4. longreach brakes can reach your smaller rims AND fit fenders
The only problem is if you're already invested into a 700C build--expensive wheels, fenders, etc.
- AnonymousApril 25, 2011 at 3:36 PM
I'm buying wheels for the white buena vista (in 58cm) I bought yesterday. Anybody have comments on 700c vs. 650b beyond standover? Specifically would the women on here prefer one over the other? I'm leaning towards 700c so the wheels are compatible with our other rides, but thought I would ask. Thanks again!ReplyDelete
I love that Spanninga Pixeo light - I tried a bolt-mount from cateye on my Raleigh's fender and it just didn't work (it was fine on the rack), but this one is designed just for that purpose. I wish they were still in-stock on VO and came in a retro version.ReplyDelete
I'm with Velouria on the mounting issue. I can't have one foot on a pedal, push off and swing onto the bike like so many others do. I have permanent injuries that keep me closer to the ground. I just got a Gazelle Champion Mondial mixte with 700X23c wheels and I love how low the seat can go. Yay for squaty frames.ReplyDelete
- AnonymousApril 25, 2011 at 6:00 PM
I see the blog has moved on to more philosophical subject matter, but as promised here is the Bicycle Quarterly reference to Shimano 8 speed IGH performance: Autumn 2010 issue, page 69 documents increased resistance in the indirect gears, especially 4th.ReplyDelete
Thanks for that info, I do not have that issue but might order it.ReplyDelete
I see the blog has moved on to more philosophical subject matter, but as promised here is the Bicycle Quarterly reference to Shimano 8 speed IGH performance: Autumn 2010 issue, page 69 documents increased resistance in the indirect gears, especially 4th.ReplyDelete
Ah, I knew I saw it somewhere, and that's it. I will scan it and post tomorrow. Since 5th is direct drive and has less resistance, the point of that graph was to illustrate how it may be easier to pedal in 5th rather than in 4th when you'd rather be in 4th because the overall output is more efficient in 5th than in 4th. This is what I was alluding to above.
Scan to come tomorrow.
Ah, and to further explain my uncertainty as to where I saw the graph: it's in BQ, but it's an official Shimano-supplied graph. Interesting, it shows exactly what I had mentioned above about 5th gear being the most most mechanically efficient due to that gear being direct drive. The lower end Alfine hub shows the biggest efficiency drops in the other gears, while the Nexus red-band hub shows much smaller efficiency drops, due to the use of higher quality needle bearings.ReplyDelete
Potential drawbacks to 650b conversions:ReplyDelete
-in the case of 700c frames that are already designed for fat tires, the BB drop may be too low, and brake reach may become a hassle. This is not the case with smaller-clearance 700c frames.
-There are far fewer choices for rims and tires, as compared to 700c. (not a big deal if you already have favorites in the 584mm size, and the 650b market seems to be steadily expanding anyway.)
-Ppl will begin to suspect that you're a fake-french pseudo-randonneur, which should probably be embarrassing. ;P
Re: IGH inefficiency: for the most part, IGHs are used for practical transportation cycling, and not racing. The little bit of mechanical inefficiency in an IGH is not the sort of thing that a commuter can seriously gripe about. I suspect SV has it right when he mentioned that the steps between the gears are too wide for V to have found a sweet ratio for the climbs. Luckily, you can get both straight and dished IGH cogs in sizes from 13t to 25t (although, I've yet to see a 24t. just 13-23, and 25t) for about $6 each. The old conventional wisdom is that you don't want the direct drive gear to be less than a 2:1 (eg, a 46t chainring and a 23t cog), or the torque might fry your IGH. (A fellow on bikeforums claims that he's been running an alfine 8spd in various super-low combinations off-road without issues for over a year, so perhaps they're getting by that problem.) Shimano's 8spd IGHs give a 15.2% jump between shifts, but this will translate to fewer gear-inches between with a lower direct-drive ratio (ie, the chainring and cog are closer to one another in size.) So, you can gear the bike for less overall range, but with less of a gap between gears.
Do ppl bemoan the "mechanical inefficiency" of IGHs? Sure. And, when racers were looking closely at Rohloff SpeedHubs, those complaints made sense. But, really, if you're riding to work or riding for fun, IGH inefficiency shouldn't even be on your radar. For those purposes, it's no big deal.
Graph of Shimano IGH efficiencies in different gears can be seen here:ReplyDelete
Please read the description with this photo!
First thing I go: what are the values of the y axis? Then Jan goes nuts to say the same thing.ReplyDelete
I'm sure the presence of real values is too damning so Shimano wisely kept them out.
somervillain - Thanks, fantastic!ReplyDelete
GRJ-- I didn't read Jan's comments, but I see that I am not alone in coming to the conlusion that the data, in and of itself, has no meaning without knowing not only the units but also the numerical range of the y-axis.ReplyDelete
But if real numbers are damning, why would Shimano have published this information in the first place. My reasoning is that less technically savvy people would automatically interpret that graph in the most damning sense-- the natural assumption is that the y-axis represents the widest possible range, i.e., 0-100%.
SV - My take is if the y axis were at 100% of total drag the peaks and valleys wouldn't be as noticeable but their baseline isn't where optimal efficiency is: at 0%. Naturally, curious folks will want to know how their derailleur set up compares. Cat is then out of the bag.ReplyDelete
Mostly I think IGH tech is at its infancy. The chart and peoples' experiences show there is variable resistance depending on what gear you're in. The last thing I want to know is if I drop down one gear on this long climb I will be easier because it's lower, but harder because that gear has more drag.
Shimano engineers: "They don't need to know how much drag there is; let's just draw this simple graph. No need to add fuel to the fire."
I guess it's useless without a range, we could be looking at a graph of 90%-95% or 50-100%.ReplyDelete
But reading some of the comments here and elsewhere is beginning to plant seeds of doubt into my hereto held view that Shimano hubs are relatively efficient, at least in the 90%s. Oh, well. All I can say is that my 5 speed SA hub has a direct drive in gear 3, which I use for 90% of my riding so I almost never feel any inefficiency. When I switch to 4th, I can go much faster but at a penalty of getting tired, but it still does not feel less efficient. Gears 2 and 1 I use on hills--which is to say rarely. So I mostly stay in 3 and occasionally 4. And 5 is useless to me. Too high for anything except downhill. I'd just change the cogs, but I don't want to lose my 3rd direct drive--it would be too low. So in actuality, my 5 speed hub is really a 4 speed hub: 1, 2, 3, 4. And if I am brutally honest, the 2nd gear is pretty useless. It's rarely low enough for a good hill and way too low for riding against the wind. So my hub is really a 3 speed in all practical sense: 1, 3, 4. Queue in V's love of 3 speed hubs and indeed the gear distribution matches that of my favourite gears. Weird, huh? I'll have to think about it some more.
Of course, nothing, nothing touches the convenience of my hub (and others like it) in the winter. I have ice all over my rims and spokes and stuck to my wheels, but the hub works and brakes as well as in the middle of July.
Todd's comment on SV's link should basically be the wiki entry for IGHs except for this: "Drivetrain losses pale in importance to aerodynamics above a certain modest speed, and rolling resistance is also usually more important."ReplyDelete
I agree with this in principle, but losses due to frame inefficiencies can be substantial. Additionally, while climbing some drag forces like wind resistance become less important, though still very much so, and others like hub drag become more so, as Todd inferred in the paragraph on climbing with an old IGH.
- kiwigemMay 2, 2011 at 10:18 AM
Somervillain- which VO fenders were used?ReplyDelete
Neighbortease- "sacrilicious" I love it. Did you coin that? I'm totally stealing it.
- AnonymousMay 7, 2011 at 2:40 PM
well i just finished putting together a 58cm in white with a honey brooks saddle, albatross bars, shellacked cork grips, etc. i was going to post a pic but don't see how. anyway, thanks everyone for the input. my wife loved it.ReplyDelete
- AnonymousMay 7, 2011 at 3:07 PM
Here are some pics.ReplyDelete
Branson - Thanks for the pictures. It looks like the bike is just the right size for her, very glad it worked out!ReplyDelete
- AnonymousMay 7, 2011 at 3:18 PM
Yes, it fits her really well. This one was a fun build too. My first mixte...ReplyDelete
Thanks again.
kiwigem-- fenders are VO's 58mm fluted fenders for 650B.ReplyDelete
Is there a way to tell if a bike would be suitable for conversion? Or, more importantly, not suitable? I'm waffling on this bike:ReplyDelete
but I would want fenders. I know that the conversion would need new brakes (which I already have from a previous project) new rims, new tires, and lots of money (or failing that lots of time). Is there a way to know if it will work before you start?
It's fine as is. It rides really nicely for me but long term I would really like the fenders.
- kiwigemMay 18, 2011 at 8:52 AM
Somervillain- Thanks, I thought so! I have a set (and a pair of Hetres) sitting around for "someday." My LBS said they wouldn't work on my current project, but seeing them on Mrs S's Buena Vista makes me think they might after all. Did you have to "mold" the fenders a bit to make them work?ReplyDelete
Erin B: I think that Nishiki International might be a great candidate, but I'll contact you off-blog with detailed thoughts.ReplyDelete
kiwigem: I did in fact have to dimple the fenders in multiple places to make them clear the rear triangle, fork blades AND brake calipers! Practically speaking, they simply are too large for most bikes and any bike with caliper brakes, unless you're willing to bang away at them and make lots of little indents! 52mm Zeppelins would have worked without any modification.
Thanks! clxtgirl at gmailReplyDelete
Very cool bike! I'm also going to buy it!ReplyDelete
- AnonymousJune 15, 2011 at 11:56 PM
Somervillain, what kind of grips are those? They look great (as does the rest of the bike).ReplyDelete
Anon 11:56, thanks! Those are black cork grips that I picked up at a local LBS, but I can't remember the brand.ReplyDelete


text:
Janesville City Council floats referendum to exceed levy limits
JANESVILLE--Pay as you go or pay as you use?
That's how Janesville City Councilman Douglas Marklein suggests the city frame a referendum question asking residents to allow it to exceed state levy limits to fund street maintenance.
The council has not put a referendum question on a ballot in many years.
But the city only can raise an additional $200,000 in taxes because of levy limits, and it must find millions more than currently are budgeted to bring streets to acceptable levels, staff has said.
If residents don't allow the council to exceed levy limits, it simply would borrow all the money, about $6 million over the next three years, Marklein said. Paying immediately via property taxes, though, saves money on interest.
Marklein said he expects some residents to complain the city would have the money to spend if it didn't build a bus garage or fire station, he said.
"But that's a separate question," Marklein said.
The council debated how to fund needed street maintenance at a Tuesday study session, and most members supported a mix of additional borrowing and taxing.
The council will meet soon to decide on what combination it would approve.
A referendum likely would be held in August, depending on whether the city could meet the notice deadline required by state statutes.
Every council member elected in the last 13 months has heard concerns from residents about the city's infrastructure, Marklein said.
Other options that remain in the mix include using reserve funds and even assessing residents a portion of the cost to resurface streets in front of their homes. Those options did not have the same support as borrowing and tax increases.
Director of Public Works Carl Weber has warned for several years that the city is falling behind in street repair. The city should be fixing 12 miles a year, but this year it has budgeted only 6.5 miles.
Weber suggests fixing 9 miles in 2015, then 12 miles in 2016 and each year going forward.
Total cost of the catch-up program is estimated at $4 million this year—or a $500,000 increase from what is budgeted—$5.6 million in 2015, and $6.7 million a year in 2016. That marks a $3.2 million increase from current spending.
Of these amounts, about two-thirds would be paid for through the general fund.
Several different fundraising options were presented to the council Tuesday.
One option increases the wheel tax by $10 per vehicle in addition to borrowing. A Janesville resident owning the average assessed home of $120,000 would pay an additional $5.60 in 2014, $23.55 in 2015 and an average $74.42 from 2016-26. Costs would peak in 2026 and stay there as long as the program continues.
Councilman Mark Bobzien said his first preference is borrowing. A referendum would be ideal in a perfect world, he said, but a small percentage of people vote, so they would make the decision for everyone.
"I think you'd be surprised that our educated electorate is paying attention to this issue," council member Sam Liebert said.
Council President DuWayne Severson said he is not excited about borrowing, but the rationale of requiring people to pay as they use the roads over time make sense.
Increasing the wheel tax appeared to be off the table. In fact, at least three council members said they want to see the tax, which is $10 per vehicle and brings in $525,000 annually for street maintenance, eliminated.
Liebert, Severson and Marklein all suggested eliminating the fee.
"To me, it's a hidden tax that folks don't think about until they get their renewal from the state," Severson said.
Said Liebert: "I guess it takes a big person to admit he was wrong, (but approving the wheel tax) is the one regret I've had."
"The wheel tax is very unpopular," Marklein added. "If we go to referendum, we need to keep the wheel tax out of the discussion."
The wheel tax is regressive because it is not tied to the value of a vehicle, Bobzien agreed.
Councilman Matt Kealy, though, said the tax at least falls on those who use the roads.
"If you decide to have five cars in the house, you use it (roads) five times more than the person with only one car," he said.
Several council members appeared reluctant to use reserve funds for what they see as an ongoing program.
In addition, the city's credit rating is determined in part by its reserves. Council policy requires reserves remain between 16 to 25 percent of the general fund. The $8.7 million is currently at 24 percent, but the council is considering using $1 million for the new fire station and has already used $675,000 to reduce the 2014 tax levy.
Borrowing also would affect the city's credit rating.
Last updated: 8:38 pm Tuesday, May 13, 2014

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Death notices for Jan. 11, 2014
Rosemary Collins, 67, Janesville, died Thursday at home. Arrangements are pending. Whitcomb-Lynch Funeral Home and Cremation Services, Janesville, is assisting the family.
Valerio G. Garza Jr., 70, Beloit, died Thursday at Mercy Hospital and Trauma Center, Janesville. Services will be at 10:30 a.m. Wednesday at Daley Murphy Wisch & Associates Funeral Home and Crematorium, Beloit. Visitation will be from 5 to 7 p.m. Tuesday and from 9:30 a.m. until the time of services Wednesday at the funeral home.
Marlis Ann Kasel, 75, Roscoe, Ill., died Wednesday at Agrace HospiceCare, Fitchburg. Services will be at 11 a.m. Monday at Our Lady of the Assumption Catholic Church, Beloit. Visitation will be from 2 to 4 p.m. Sunday at Daley Murphy Wisch & Associates Funeral Home and Crematorium, Beloit, and from 9:45 to 10:45 a.m. Monday at the church.
James G. Kukla, 87, Jefferson, died Wednesday in Jefferson. Services will be at noon Tuesday at St. Mark's Evangelical Lutheran Church, Jefferson. Visitation will be from 10:30 a.m. until the time of services Tuesday at the church. Olsen Funeral Home, Jefferson, is assisting the family.
Dorothy Mae Pierson, 74, Janesville, died Friday at Rock Haven Nursing Home, Janesville. Arrangements are pending. Brian Hansen Funeral Service, Janesville, is assisting the family.


text:
Jeffrey Dean "Jeffy" McKaig, Edgerton, WI (1969-2014)
August 11, 1969 - January 18, 2014
Jeffrey Dean "Jeffy" McKaig, 44, of Edgerton, passed away unexpectedly, on Saturday, Jan. 18, 2014, at Beloit Memorial Hospital. He was born on Aug. 11, 1969, in Edgerton, son of Kathleen A. Dunn and Dean E. McKaig. Jeff had worked for Southern Wisconsin News, for many years. He enjoyed listening to and playing music, reading, being outdoors, Egyptian History, tubing and cooking. His two loving daughters were the pride of his life.
Jeffrey is survived by two daughters, Jenna McKaig and Abriel McKaig, both of Duluth, MN; his mother, Kathy Dunn of Edgerton; his father, Dean McKaig of Sterling Heights, MI; two step-daughters, Kayse Lawler of Hurley, WI, and Kelly Battersby of Janesville; four grandchildren: Hailey, Mason, Isabel and Jacob; two brothers, David (Deb Johnson) McKaig of Milton, and Tracey (Jess) Dunn of Fitchburg, WI; one step-sister, Julie (Clint) Johnson of Janesville; one aunt, Kris (Bob) Purnell of Edgerton; three uncles: John (April) Larson of Orfordville, WI, Jeff (Lynn) Larson and Dave (Kathy) McKaig, both of Edgerton; and many cousins and friends.
A private family service will be held. The EHLERT FUNERAL HOME AND CREMATION SERVICES of Edgerton, is assisting the family. Condolences may be expressed at ehlertfuneralhome.com


text:
Home cooking: Parker girls cruise to win in their gym
JANESVILLE—Janesville Parker's girls basketball team got back to the basics Saturday afternoon.
The Vikings relied on their patented pressure defense and a patient offense to end a three-game losing skid.
Paige Smith scored 19 points and Parker raced out to an early double-digit lead en route to a 54-35 Big Eight Conference win over Madison Memorial.
The Vikings moved back to the .500 mark for the season at 7-7 and improved to 6-4 in the conference.
"I'm not making any excuses, but it sure is nice to finally be playing at home," Parker Tom Klawitter said of a schedule that saw his team play 10 of its first 14 games on the road. "You get in more of a comfort zone at home.
"And that translated to us playing a little better today. We've still got some things to work on, but we did some good things today and were able to shuffle a lot of kids in and out without losing a lot."
Parker jumped on the visitors right away. The Vikings scored the first eight points of the game and led 13-4 after one quarter. Morgan McCulloch started the game with a 3-pointer for Parker and ended the first quarter with her second one.
The Vikings stretched the lead to double digits with a 7-3 run to start the second quarter, capped off by two free throws from junior Bree Porter that made it 20-7 with 5:17 left in the half. Parker eventually led 27-12 at half.
"I like that we're starting to kick it to the open shooter and finding some openings on our backdoor cuts," Klawitter said. "We missed some good looks, but the shots were there.
"And our defense was better, too. We had some breakdowns, but overall, we did a pretty good job of defending and screening out."
Smith, who is third in the conference in scoring at 15.5 points per game, had eight of her 19 in the fourth quarter as Parker stretched its lead to as many as 25. McCulloch finished with 11 points for the Vikings, while Porter added 10 off the bench.
Parker hosts first-place Middleton on Friday night.


text:
Web Views for Friday, March 7, 2014
On Parkview referendum: How many voters of the district who are on fixed incomes or retired "vetted" these proposals?
-- Thomas Murn
-- They are asking for a 40 percent increase in their property tax. If they attract open enrollment students to the district, the state revenue that comes with them pays only a portion of the cost of educating those students. The rest of the expense is paid by the taxpayers in the district.
-- garyprimer
-- But we have to do something. Our buildings are old, the budgets for repairs are gone. If the people of Parkview had said "yes" to new ideas before, we would have built new schools before. Something has to be done for the future of the district. I am voting "yes."
-- Terry Gerber
On snowy owls bring silent beauty: Beautiful, thanks for sharing these photos!
-- wislady
-- Thank you for taking and sharing your photos of this beautiful bird, Scott. And thank you, Anna Marie, for the story.
-- Solo_Voce
On ag group seeks county's support: Are they going to MINE any gravel?
-- wislady
-- Would it be FAIR if they did?
-- new user
-- We the citizens don't want this. County board, please do not give any tax dollars to this project.
-- new user
-- "We the citizens don't want this." Why, and who are the citizens you are speaking for?
-- Turkeyman
On mechanics warn of pothole dangers: And yet we keep sending money overseas to rebuild roads, bridges, and infrastructures. Something is major wrong with this picture. Sad, sad situation.
-- hdonlybob
-- The state has cut back funds to municipalities for road maintenance and shared revenues in order to balance the state budget. Talk about kicking the can down the road!
-- garyprimer
On March health care deadline: How can people not know about it? Do people not watch TV, read newspapers, use computers, read magazines? … Millions have been spent, letters sent out, talk show hosts, newscasts all have blared constantly the pros and cons of the health care program, so how can people not know? Is it that unimportant to them?
-- RetArmy
-- A lot of low-income people are not real smart. I have a small business where I see quite a few of them. About half of them just don't know about it or don't have the mental capacity to understand it could really help them and (that) it won't really cost them anything.
-- Truthtelller
On state tourism commercials: "Easy going spirit," is that a joke? I could see having Prozac commercials here, but the folks from Wisconsin are (far) from "easy going." In all honesty, I wouldn't even bother with tourism commercials. Instead use the money for something else. The economy isn't as great as many in the media would have you believe.
-- beamer
To Steve Knox: The parents' excuse to drive their kids to school is safety, when in fact they are the ones that are unsafe.
-- Bravo, I have asked my children hundreds of times, "Why do we always get stuck behind the ones who feel the drop-off lane is a good time to discuss that night's dinner plans or whatever else they seem to be yakking about?" I have been doing the Franklin/Parker traffic jam for the past 10 years.
-- woopislihoods
-- I recall similar frustrations. Most Janesville schools were not built with the idea that a lot of parents would be dropping kids off by car, so the roads around them are not especially wide, and there are no on-site drive-throughs. … One solution is to drop your kids off several blocks away, far from the maddening traffic jam, which would keep you calmer and help out the situation at school.
-- Frank J. Schultz


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Read an Online Exclusive about environmental law in China
Six years ago, InsideCounsel provided readers with a comprehensive legal guide designed to offer insight to companies about best practices when considering expanding their businesses into China's burgeoning marketplace. We reported on the workings of the country's court system, its outlook on intellectual property, its stance on environmental law, its evolving labor laws and more.
It comes as no surprise that China's legal and business landscapes have markedly changed since that story appeared in the magazine in November 2006. In this article, we offer an update on the latest developments that are affecting how U.S. companies do business in China.
Business Basics
There's no mystery about why it's important for corporations to establish themselves in China.
"Any company that wants to be global has to be in China," says Lee Cheng, chief legal officer at Newegg Inc., an online retailer of IT and consumer-electronic products that does business in China. "It's the fastest-growing market in the world and the world's second-largest economy. It's potentially going to be the biggest economy in the world within two to three decades."
Luckily for multinational companies, it is relatively easier to break into China's market than it was just a decade ago. "China has been on a trend of being friendlier to business and opening itself up in terms of the global market," says Christian Na, deputy general counsel of Circor International Inc., a manufacturer of products used in the energy, aerospace and industrial markets that does business in China.
Nonetheless, China's government still plays a large role in controlling business within the country. "Virtually at every turn, you need government approval to engage in various activities, expand your business scope or do business in another city," says David Tang, managing partner, Asia at K&L Gates.
Dick Goetz, a partner at Dykema and head of the firm's International Practice Group, notes that during the past decade, the central government has delegated more business-regulating authority to the local level, which is more open to foreign investment. But "there is still some degree of protectionism, especially in local industries," he says.
Evolving Laws
Companies looking to establish a physical presence in China must have a grasp on the country's evolving business laws. "In the past, there was a sense that there were no rules and that you could do anything to achieve the goals that you wanted to achieve. Now, a decade later, that is no longer true," says Tang. "There are lots of rules and regulations being enforced. People who don't comply end up in hot water."
To stay informed about China's growing body of business law, Julia Zhu, senior counsel at Dykema, recommends developing relationships with local experts. "All the laws, regulations and rules are not readily available online or somewhere else the public has access to," she says. "Those rules and regulations are coming from different authorities in China. Some of them are consistent, some of them are inconsistent. Local, experienced lawyers are a great source to keep companies abreast of what's going on in China from a legal perspective."
Corruption Concerns
In addition to understanding China's laws, companies must adapt to the country's business culture.
"China is still very much about guanxi—the personal relationship," says Na. "Personal relationships are as important as any written document or contract. Guanxi is really supposed to be something that generates goodwill and facilitates business in a legitimate way, but at the same time, that guanxi relationship can be abused. That's what leads to undue business influence that may be interpreted as bribes or corruption. It's a fine balance that multinational companies have to understand and handle very well."
And although Western companies doing business in China and local Chinese business partners have become more cognizant of Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA) issues in the past decade, bribery concerns still exist.
"FCPA is a growing concern for multinational companies, as Department of Justice enforcement has been quite rigorous recently," says Tang. "There have been very heavy fines on violators. It is very high on the risk agenda of multinational companies, and they are taking seriously the admonition to train, monitor and investigate if there's any indication that something is wrong. That's also a focus on the Chinese side. There is an effort to combat corruption."
Leadership Shake-up
At press time, China was preparing for the 18th National Congress of the Communist Party of China, scheduled for Nov. 8, during which important government and party leadership changes will take place. Experts say the changes could have a big effect on Chinese businesses as well as businesses operating or investing in China.
"There is some discussion that there needs to be greater economic reform in China," says Tang. "There is a little bit of uncertainty as to what direction policy will take, and if there is reform, what kind of reform this will be. For some companies in certain sectors, that could be very welcome. For other companies, for instance, large-state-owned enterprises, that may not be as welcome because they're comfortable in the current system."
Goetz agrees. "Given that China's economy is starting to bump a little bit, they probably are going to be more interested in foreign investment," he says. "This might not be a bad time to invest in China because of the opportunities that will be available."
Changing Courts
Although China operates under a civil law system and therefore isn't bound by stare decisis—or the rule that lower courts must rely on judicial precedent when deciding cases with similar issues—changes to the country's court system indicate a move toward ensuring more uniform decision-
making among courts.
On Nov. 26, 2010, the Supreme People's Court of China (SPC) promulgated the "Provisions on Work Related to Guiding Cases."
"A guiding case is a court judgment or ruling handed down by a court, which can be the SPC or a lower court," explains Song Zhu, a partner at Hogan Lovells. "The provisions set forth the goals of guiding cases, their selection criteria and process, and their use."
According to the provisions, the purpose of this effort is "to summarize adjudication experiences, unify application of law, enhance adjudication quality and safeguard judicial justice."
"In other words, the purpose is to improve the quality, consistency and uniformity of adjudication of cases, and to provide examples of sound judicial decision-making to China's relatively inexperienced judges," Zhu says.
Guiding, Not Binding
So far, the SPC has released eight guiding cases. But experts stress that they aren't binding.
"Based on my discussions with the SPC's judges, the purpose of the provisions is not to make new law or to establish binding precedents," Zhu says.
However, Mei Gechlik, director of Stanford Law's China Guiding Cases Project, which is creating a database of translated guiding cases and commentary, says SPC leaders have told her
that although the cases aren't binding, "if they are not followed, there will be serious problems."
According to Zhu, some experts say the guiding cases are "the initial step of the SPC's effort to establish something that is akin to the common law, marking a fundamental change to the Chinese legal system." But some Chinese judges Zhu spoke with disagree. "They pointed out that under China's constitution, only the National People's Congress—China's legislature—can make new law. The SPC is careful not to step outside the boundary of its authority."
Forthcoming Cases
So far, none of the guiding cases have been particularly pertinent to foreign businesses operating in China. But Gechlik predicts that the next batch of guiding cases will include an intellectual property case. "They want to make sure that they release some simpler cases first, and then when they feel more confident, they will deal with the more important, technical cases like IP because they know that international parties will be more interested in those kinds of cases," she says.
Becoming Independent
Despite these promising changes, experts say there is still a long way to go before China's courts are truly independent. Gechlik says the judicial system's fundamental problem is Communist Party control over the personnel and financing of the courts.
But the lower courts, especially in China's major metropolitan areas, are slowly acquiring better-qualified judges who are more open-minded and reform-oriented in their decisions than their predecessors. And with government and party leadership changes on the horizon, there could be further improvements—though experts aren't overly optimistic.
"We will have to see whether the new leaders will have the courage to actually bring about meaningful political reform," Gechlik says. "Without that, we won't see major changes in the judicial system. It's not realistic to expect true independence in a system like China. It's still too difficult to realize big changes."
Improving IP
A country long known for its manufacturing, China has been trying to move from "Made in China" to "Designed in China" by promoting indigenous innovation. China hopes to increase the number of patent applications filed in the country to 2 million by 2015, even though it already had the most patent applications in the world in 2011—1.63 million.
To reach this lofty goal, the government supports tweaking foreign technology, defining indigenous innovation in its science and technology development plan as "enhancing original innovation through co-innovation and re-innovation based on the assimilation of imported technologies."
This sentiment "is considered by many international technology companies to be a blueprint for technology theft on a scale the world has never seen before," according to a 2010 U.S. Chamber of Commerce report. This can leave some companies that want to take advantage of China's growing economy worried about protecting their intellectual property on the other side of the Pacific.
"It's the second-largest economy in the world," says Thomas Ross, a partner at Marshall, Gerstein & Borun. "How can you ignore it? But by the same token, you don't want to go over there and get ripped off."
However, perhaps as part of its ongoing attempts to promote innovation, China has made strides toward better protecting IP.
"I know that in the past, China might have received a somewhat less-than-stellar reputation for protecting IP," says Horace Ng, managing IP counsel and director of IP development at Marvell Semiconductor Inc. "But over the years China has done its share of improving its IP system, so people are getting more confidence in investing their resources in China."
Patent Protection
One of the problems China has addressed is the issue of patent hijacking—registering in China for patents on inventions that are already patented elsewhere in the world. This used to be legal, Ng says, because anything published outside of China did not count as prior art that could invalidate a patent application within China.
"Now they have changed the law to eliminate that loophole," Ng says.
A recent opinion from China's Supreme People's Court (SPC) also offers some reassurance to patent holders. According to Alex Zhang, a partner at King & Wood Mallesons, the SPC said that "defendants will bear the reverse burden of proof" in patent cases if the patentee can prove that the infringer manufactures the same product and shows a high likelihood of infringement.
In light of this, Zhang recommends that "whenever you find something, you need to be quick to enforce your IP," especially because litigation in China is far less expensive than in the U.S.
Those companies looking to avoid court proceedings can seek administrative actions through local intellectual property offices.
"You're apt to get a quick order that way, and also an order that is enforceable by a government official, which is taken pretty seriously over there," Ross says.
Controlling Contracts
Official action can only go so far, though, if businesses are stuck in their ways. "The legal system's trying to catch up," Ng says. "But at the same time, the customers that we have to work with are lagging behind a little bit in terms of their knowledge of the legal system and what they are not supposed to do. … We have seen cases where some bigger customers actually try to get IP ownership of things we develop."
Ng recommends that companies employ someone who can read and write Chinese to review contracts and look out for such worrisome provisions. Looking at a translated English contract isn't always enough because often Chinese companies will request that the Chinese version of the contract be the governing version.
Employment Environment
Despite recurring media reports of poor working conditions in China at places such as electronics manufacturing giant Foxconn's factories, experts say that Chinese worker rights have been steadily improving over the past six years. While labor rights activists may not yet be satisfied, Ricardo Ernst, a professor of global logistics at Georgetown University, says progress in China should not be measured against another country's standard.
"It's not a fair comparison to say that the working conditions in the U.S. are the same as the working conditions that they [should] have in any and every other place around the world," Ernst says. "Every place has its own working conditions, and that's why you need to evaluate in light of what the local conditions are."
Useless Unions
In 2006, InsideCounsel reported that the Chinese government was planning a push to give more power to its central union, the All-China Federation of Trade Unions (ACFTU), and we predicted this would contribute to the strengthening of workers' rights. In 2010, a spat of labor strikes erupted in several large factories. Once the dust settled, the Washington Post reported in 2011 that the ACFTU was going to make a bigger effort to lobby on behalf of workers.
However, Dan Harris, a partner at Harris & Moure and co-author of the firm's China Law Blog, says that although the Communist Party wants China to believe the unions have teeth, union issues have never come up for any of his corporate clients in China and he believes the ACFTU is controlled by the government.
"There's no real union. It's the government that's telling them what to do and when," Harris says. "That's not really a union."
He wrote as much in a blog post for China Law Blog in September, and says the website was immediately shut down in China.
"If I had thought about it, I would've known they would shut me down because China does not like people to say 'The unions? What unions?'" he says. "This whole thing about [how] they're going to advocate for the workers and all that? Bull."
Labor Law
If the improvement in workers' rights isn't coming from the unions, perhaps it can be attributed to the Labor Contract Law, which went into effect on Jan. 1, 2008, despite many employers' efforts to defeat the legislation. Several of the law's provisions, including requiring written contracts and overtime pay, have driven up labor costs for companies operating in China.
But it's not all bad news. Requiring contracts means companies have their rules and policies in writing, which makes them much easier to enforce.
"If the rule of law is not enforceable, then you have a high level of risk," Ernst says. "Requiring contracts is a very good idea. … The transparency of rules is, at the end of the day, what brings success."
Harris recommends writing contracts in both Chinese and English, and doing the same for employment manuals, which should include a detailed list of all the reasons employees can be fired. "China is not an at-will employee country," Harris says. "Americans tend to be the ones that get in the most trouble in China because [they] just assume you can fire somebody easily because in the U.S., you can. In China, you can't."
Overall, Harris says foreign companies have to be a lot more careful to comply with labor laws than Chinese companies because they are scrutinized more closely. "Don't do what the Chinese company does down the street," he says. "Don't do what your Chinese manager says you can get away with, because you won't get away with it."


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Difference between revisions of "Remoting Architecture"
(→Asynchronous Data Access)
(→Asynchronous Data Access)
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* Viewer & Provider pattern
* Viewer & Provider pattern
* Promise pattern
* Promise pattern
First of all, see the following diagram that explains how the Watch panel (child of the Scrip panel) is populated with data coming asynchronously from the back-and (as a set of [https://wiki.mozilla.org/Remote_Debugging_Protocol#Grips grips]) and cached on the client side.
First of all, see the following diagram that explains how the Watch panel (child of the Scrip panel) is populated with data coming asynchronously from the back-and (as a set of [https://wiki.mozilla.org/Remote_Debugging_Protocol#Grips grips]) and cached on the client side.
Revision as of 08:31, 10 September 2012
This page is intended to summarize basic architecture concepts for Firebug (and Firebug extensions) remote capabilities (such as remote debugging or remote HTTP monitoring).
The proxy object represents a connection between a panel (front end) and a module (back end).
The proxy has essentially two implementations:
- Local - direct API calls
- Remote - communication over TCP/IP protocol
- Panel (a view) should never use Module (a service) directly
- The communication should always be done through the current proxy
- Each Panel should have its own proxy that implements API of the remote module (service)
- There can be also proxy objects used by non-panel objects, e.g. the Profiler
- It should be possible to create new proxies in extensions.
- There should be also something like a default (or global) proxy that can be used for things like getting list of tabs on the remote browser
Here is a more detailed diagram with local and remote proxies.
- Panel object at the top is referencing its proxy object
- The proxy implementation can be local or remote
- Local proxy uses direct API calls (in process) and asynchronous callbacks
- Remote proxy uses TCP/IP connection to communicate with the back-end using JSON packets
- The remote communication is based on RDP
- The server side implements Actor, which is responsible for communication with specific proxy
- The actor is finally consuming back-end Module (service) API
Connection object is responsible for sending properly setup packets to the server and handling all response packets. This object is also responsible for handling any errors (or error packets) that can occur during the communication.
- Remote proxies should always use the connection object to send JSON packets
- The connection is singleton it'll be probably attached to the global Firebug object
Firebug also needs its server side implementation that will be used if Firebug is running in a server mode (on the remote browser). In such cases only back-end services like: NetMonitor or Debugger modules will be loaded and activated. UI overlays (i.e. browserOverlay.js) shouldn't be loaded at all since it isn't necessary and e.g. Fennec UI doesn't even have expected XUL elements to be overlayed.
Individual services should be always loaded on-demand at the time when appropriate actor is requested by the client side. For example, when the client side requests a net actor then NetMonitor module should be loaded and activated.
- Only actors are registered on the server side by default
- Actors are responsible for loading and activating back-end services
- Extensions should be able to create and register custom actors
- In order not to delay server side browser start-up time, we should delay loading of AMD modules till they are really requested by actors (e.g. the Net and Script panels don't have to be even enabled).
Firebug TabWatcher is responsible for watching browser tabs events (open, close, switch) and firing further events to make sure that Firebug UI is properly updated and showing information related to the current page.
TabWatcher is clearly a server side component and as such it also needs a proxy. In case of JSD2 some events like tabNavigate might be server by API built-in in the platform.
BTI is implementing TabWatchListener (see browser.js file), which is listening to TabWatcher and forwarding all events to Firebug infrastructure. This object should be reused or removed not duplicated.
- Local TabWatcher must be disabled when Firebug is connected to a remote browser instance
This section describes the current BTI (Browser Tools Interface) concepts. These concepts should be reviewed and refactored as necessary.
WebApp represents a browsing context. Browsing context is an environment in which Document objects are presented to the user. Instance of this object is associated with top level page window (it's on the same level as the context object).
This object doesn't implement any logic it's there only to demonstrate the concept.
JavaScriptTool implements API related to script debugging. It serves similar purpose as a proxy object. It's currently placed between the Script panel and Firebug.Debugger module.
Compilation Unit
CompilationUnit has:
- list of breakpoints
- url
- reference to the current context
BTI Refactoring
Summary of suggestions for the current BTI architecture refactoring.
- BTI.Browser should be renamed to BTI.BrowserProxy
- Firebug.connection should be Firebug.proxy
- Firebug.proxy.connection should refer to an object that is responsible for sending/receiving packets
- A connection should be per context since one context can be connected to a local browser and another one to a remote browser.
- firebug/lib/tool should be firebug/bti/tool
Before digging deep in how the remoting concept is designed, let's see what objects (entities) are already presented in the current architecture. Check out the red boxes in the diagram.
- NetMonitorModule This object is derived from Firebug.ActivableModule and represents the back-end service for Network Monitor tool (note that this object is called just NetMonitor in the current architecture).
- NetPanel This object is derived from Firebug.ActivablePanel and represent the front-end for Network Monitor tool.
- ScriptPanel Is derived from Firebug.ActivablePanel and represent the front-end for Script Debugger. The diagram doesn't show Debugger module, which represents the back-end based on JSD1. This module won't be necessary anymore since it'll be replaced by JSD2 API, JSD2 Actors and RDP (all already built-in Firefox platform).
- Context This is the document containing all data collected about the current page (debugged target). You can clearly notice the document-view pattern in the concept (context-panel).
The red-dashed line on the right side of the diagram shows the previous local access to the back-end services. In case of local debugging front-end and back-end are in the same process and there is no need for proxies. The rest of the diagram is about introducing these proxies.
- NetMonitorTool The NetPanel is consuming the backed service through a new object called NetMonitorTool. This tool object is coming from BTI. It has the same interface as the back-end service (INetMonitor) and represents a proxy for it. The tool is not the only object that composes the whole proxy, there can be also a client
- NetMonitorClient that sends proper packet types to the server and handles received packets. If the implementation of the client is too simple, it can be part of the tool itself, but the important thing is that all state data are stored in the context object. The tool object is state less just like the corresponding part on the server side, the module object.
- NetMonitorActor this object handles incoming packet from the client side, specifically from the NetMonitorClient object. Packet's are routed automatially and RDP ensures that packets from a client reach the corresponding actor.
- Connection this layer ensures safe sending and receiving packets between a tool and a client.
- Server This object represents Firebug server side. It's mostly based on RDP server that is available in Firefox platform. However Firebug needs to be able to run as a server. Firebug running in a server mode doesn't have UI and only exposes all its services through RDP actors so, BTI tools can connect it.
- ScriptPanel is again consuming JSD2 API through a proxy - a DebuggerTool. Since the DebuggerTool requires complicated interaction when setting breakpoints and debugging, there is whole set of clients that ensure communication with proper actors. There is typically one client per actor. State of all these clients is again stored within context.
- JSD2 Actors and JSD2 API are built-in Firefox platform.
The diagram doesn't show flow of events initiated on the server side. The chain is as follows:
back-end service -> module -> actor -> connection -> client -> tool -> panel
Asynchronous Data Access
One of the challenges for consuming JSD back-end API through RDP is picking the right way for asynchronous consuming of back-end data. This chapter is suggesting Asynchronous Data Providers to solve the problem.
Working prototype (a web application) showing asynchronously populated tree is available:
- Source https://github.com/janodvarko/prototypes/tree/master/async-provider
- Online http://janodvarko.cz/firebug/jsd2/prototypes/async-provider
The concept is based on:
- Viewer & Provider pattern
- Promise pattern
First of all, see the following diagram that explains how the Watch panel (child of the Scrip panel) is populated with data coming asynchronously from the back-and (as a set of grips) and cached on the client side.
- The Watch panel update starts when a selection (or navigation) event is sent to it. It usually happens when JS execution is paused. Note that the current implementation of the panel displays the global object (window) if the execution is not paused so, it's never empty and useless.
- Evaluation of custom expression in the Watch panel is not covered in this scenario, but would be implemented using same technique.
- The Watch panel is essentially a tree and so, it embeds a Tree widget based on Domplate - DomTree. Set of domplate templates in this widget are responsible for HTML generation.
- The widget uses standard Provider interface to get data. The interface look like as follows:
var TreeProvider =
hasChildren: function(object) { return this.getChildren().length > 0; },
getChildren: function(object) { return []; },
getLabel: function(object, col) { return ""; },
getValue: function(object, col) { return null; },
- The col argument is used by UI widgets supporting tabular data display. See more about Data Providers.
- The provider is only an adapter neither storing nor caching data (objects, grips).
- The provider uses a cache to get all objects. If an object is cached on the client side it's returned synchronously. If it isn't cached it needs to be fetched from the server and so, returns asynchronously.
- Promise object is returned by the cache in both cases (sync and async).
- Children objects are returned immediately, in the synchronous case.
- An empty array is returned if children need to be fetched from the back-end. When they are received, the Provider sends an event to the associated UI Widget. The widget needs to implement following interface.
var ProviderListener =
updateObject: function(object) {},
- It's responsibility of the widget to update itself and re-request the object again from the provider. The object is already cached at that point and so, returned synchronously.
- Of course, the cache is part of the Context object that collects all data about the debugging target.