text:
Powder scares at 2 LDS temples, Catholic plant
No evidence to link threats to Prop. 8 opponents, FBI says
ttNov. 19, 2008 8:20 a.m.
Yes, this should be charged as a terrorist act.
anonNov. 16, 2008 9:53 a.m.
this is why we need to all try to be better each day. follow the words of the prophet. love one another. pray for our enemies. and strive to better people each day
deseretnews.com moderatorNov. 14, 2008 11:47 a.m.
Because of the high number of comments being submitted that contain threats or references to violence, no more comments will be posted on this story.
CatsNov. 14, 2008 11:15 a.m.
To Anonymous 10:11: I guess we did get just what we deserved. I guess trying to live righteous lives, sending out humanitarian help around the world, standing up for truth, giving countless hours of service, helping people who are victims of hurricanes and other disasters and serving God's children everywhere is a good reason for us to receive all kinds of persecution. I can see that you're right about that.
FRANIENov. 14, 2008 10:36 a.m.
RE: DEBBIE, Nothing has just began, this has been going on since the beginning of the formation of the LDS church. Why don't You go read church history? There is nothing new here going on that didn't happen in Joseph Smith's and B.Young's time... You maketh NO SENSE!
The authorities will investigate these hate crimes and hopefully, as well learn the truth of the matter and find and arrest the perpetrators.
Too "Robert Oh "Nov. 14, 2008 10:29 a.m.
Too "Robert Oh | 6:30 p.m.", who says this doesn't pass his "Smell Test" (because he thinks all mail is opened at church headquarters)...
How does your "smell test" explain the same letter with the same content going to the LA Temple and a Catholic church all the same day? Still think it's just some made up story by someone in the SLC Temple or Utah media?
DanOLGBNov. 14, 2008 10:28 a.m.
So, I think it should be made clear that despite what you've been told. There is no gay headquarters, there is no association of which all gay people belong to. There is no organized plot to assault or harm any Mormon person or interest. If these are being carried out by any member of the GLBT community, they act on their own and without any sanctioning by anyone other than themselves.
Patience please!Nov. 14, 2008 10:27 a.m.
Let the FBI look at what it is and make an assessment. Remember what they say about trying to "Assume" anything! Break it down.
AnonymousNov. 14, 2008 10:26 a.m.
This is why we all need the Quest for Perfection. Everyone - lets try to be a little better each day.
Too much...Nov. 14, 2008 10:25 a.m.
This is not terrorism, because it is not directed towards the government. (I think that is the distinction, but I am not sure.)
It is, however, a hate crime.
Since the mail is being used to deliver the envelopes, it is a federal offense.
The person (or persons) doing this no more represents the majority of gay rights supporters than a bad Mormon represents all Mormons.
CzabeNov. 14, 2008 10:24 a.m.
Would anyone really mind if CA fell into the ocean?
Artes LiberalisNov. 14, 2008 10:20 a.m.
Great. The hate coming from the no on 8 people have brought the unstable out of the closet. Nonetheless, this is a hate crime or ethnoviolence, targeting one religious group. It is clear that the LDS church was a target.
If the current hate crimes, vandalism and mail crimes were reversed there would be screams of bigotry and hate crimes.
deseretnews.com moderatorNov. 14, 2008 10:16 a.m.
In addition to our stated rules, any comments containing threats or references to violence of any kind will not be posted. If the trend continues, all comments will be barred from this story.
HankNov. 14, 2008 10:12 a.m.
1st of all, any investigating authority SHOULD suspect a connection. Stupid NOT to investigate that first.
2cd: receive ALL mail elsewhere, so it doesn't shut down the Temples, which is exactly what is desired by whomever mailed those letters.
It is not that much trouble to divert all mail to an office in another location.
AnonymousNov. 14, 2008 10:11 a.m.
What I say, I say for a different reason, and that is that the Mormons got what they disserved.
Remember Rosa ParksNov. 14, 2008 10:08 a.m.
The civil rights movement had Black Panther, and other violence motivated groups, but does that diminish the acts of Dr. Martin Luther King, or Rosa Parks?
Violence is wrong in any form, but not everyone is that way. And for those that call a protest a riot... your are wrong too. One of the most fundamental principals is our right to protest.
Charlie JonesNov. 14, 2008 10:06 a.m.
This is just some coincidence that people used to blame on the gay people. They knew if they used this opportunity now, the first group of people that would get pointed at would be the gay people. I say leave the gays alone, and until they are proven guilty, what have they done to you?
SCNov. 14, 2008 10:00 a.m.
As some of the comments have said. There is nothing that says specifically that this is realted to the gay marriage supporters. This statement may be true, however, if the gays and gay supporters don't want to be linked through assumptions, then they should stop assaulting people, and vandelizing property, and using vulgar langauge toward prop 8 supporters. then they wouldn't be "stereotyped".
AnonymousNov. 14, 2008 9:56 a.m.
You have brought this on yourselves. Stop blaming others. Stop using the law to persecuting and oppressing people who believe differently than you.
kelly in caliNov. 14, 2008 9:55 a.m.
No one wants the protections that homosexual couples currently have under family code section 297.5 taken away. It clearly states they have the same rights as a spouse.
A poll taken before the election asked if people were yes or no on prop 8. Most said no. This same polling group then asked do you approve or disapprove of homosexual marriage. Most said they disapprove. Interesting when asked in plain English, how they responded.
Who would benefit ?Nov. 14, 2008 9:54 a.m.
Who would benefit from releasing their hate against the church and their hate against the homosexual community? I beleive there are horribly vehement groups that are already protesting both. Some groups that don't like the LDS church because they don't protest enough against homosexuality.
Collect the evidence make sure the authorities take it seriously and not stay "politically correct" but honest.
Truth is important in this situation before any other acts are taken. Also the current environment that allows attack of the Mormon church or other religion needs to be stopped and prosecuted.
Mormons have always had persecution and it seems there is always a turning of the heads by many entities.
AnonymousNov. 14, 2008 9:52 a.m.
I think it was Bin Laden.
How many times?Nov. 14, 2008 9:41 a.m.
Some of the comments made here I feel are a bit off base, but I do think it's important for protest and have their say. The problem as I see it is, the vote didn't go the way the gay community wanted. However, there was a vote. The vote was by the people, and for the people. It was a democratic process. People from Utah, Arizona, and other locations didn't cross state lines and cast a ballot. Money may have come from outside CA, but that happens in nearly every election.
However, I don't feel this is over. I think another proposition similar to Prop 8 will emerge in CA and people will vote yet again on it. The gay community will push this process until they finally get the results they want. I'm not familiar with CA law, but how many times can they put this proposition up?
Has the Church done anything to help protect the missionaries from any sort of threats or violence? Seems things might be headed that way. Let's pray it doesn't come to that.
DuhNov. 14, 2008 9:37 a.m.
Even if this was an individual who supported Gay Rights and was outraged, this is not the thinking of good decent people who are just fighting for what they believe is equality. This/these individuals who committed this act are people who hate and have only one thing on their minds, feed the fire. I may not agree with giving marriage rights to gays but that does not mean they are bad people. Whether it be this issue or another, someone is always evil enough to drive a wedge between the groups who choose to disagree. And as a Soldier, I fight for those rights, equality for everyone, not just one group or person.
CatsNov. 14, 2008 9:29 a.m.
To Quiet: I certainly hope your blog was intended to be sarcastic.
...Nov. 14, 2008 9:28 a.m.
This is not the first time that followers of Christ have suffered for their beleifs! The Lord honors those who honors Him! This is just one of the affects of taking up you corss and following the Savior! It was never easy for Him and it will never be easy for us. but the least we can do is still love our brothers and sisters! we abhor sin but not the sinner! we are all sinners and need each others help!
JonNov. 14, 2008 9:23 a.m.
Ok, so there's no evidence to prove that it was regarding prop 8, except that the envelopes were sent to the LDS Church and the Knights of Columbus (was that it?) another group that supported prop 8. Add to all this the facts that LDS temple gates in LA were vandalized with some graffiti by protesters of prop 8, and that the same group is threatening a boycott of Utah over it, and that people on these forums, from other prop 8-related articles, suggest The Church is getting what it deserves (really? vandalism is what we deserve?), does suggest that this is prop 8-related. However, it could be someone trying to make prop 8 opponents look bad, we don't know. My guess is that it's from a prop 8 opponent.
unfairNov. 14, 2008 9:21 a.m.
It's unfair for some of the posters here to paint the whole gay community as being behind this despicable act. The majority of gay people are no more terrorist than all christians are murderers because one christian fanatic shoots a doctor at an abortion clinic.
DebbieNov. 14, 2008 9:21 a.m.
Does this sound familiar to anyone? My husband and I agree; it sounds like the persecutions of the Church and it's members has begun. This is just the beginning. We need to prepare for what is yet to happen. This has just opened the door for other activists to persecute the members of this wonderful Church. We all need to be praying instead of complaining.
RightsNov. 14, 2008 9:15 a.m.
Marriage is not a right. Marriage is a recognition by the state of the union between two people. Under California law, registered partners have all the same benefits as married people with regard to taxation, visitation rights, etc. So the ONLY thing that a marriage grants that a gay couple does not already have is a certificate, wherein the state officially sanctions their union. This is tantamount to the state saying "I condone and endorse your homosexual behavior." It is not a question of civil rights. Essentially, all Proposition 8 was asking was "Do you think the state of California should condone and endorse homosexual behavior?" Obviously, based on how the vote turned out, a majority of people do not feel the state should do this. This issue is similar to a situation where a gay person tries to seek approval from his/her parents. The parents can't make the child refrain from living a certain way, but by the same token, the child cannot force the parents to condone and endorse his/her lifestyle.
misery loves companyNov. 14, 2008 9:14 a.m.
I have never felt threatened by a homosexual. I have been seriously annoyed by a member of the "sunday squadron" many times.
Maybe, if the supporters of Prop 8 had fought a little harder prior to the election this might all be a moot point.
All things being equal, both sides need to lighten up ALOT!
Hate CrimesNov. 14, 2008 9:10 a.m.
I hope that any arrests associated with any of the protests are being prosecuted as hate crimes against the mormons. If this type of thing was happening to the jewish people, or even the gays, people would be screaming hate crime. But once againit looks like the mormons are fair game for any kind of criminal activity.
JulieNov. 14, 2008 9:03 a.m.
Of course it can't be related at all. It would be irresponsible to say so. . . Jeez. If it were sent to any other people or any other place, it would be considered terrorism.
The RockNov. 14, 2008 9:03 a.m.
Do Gay Rights Exist?
Where do rights come from?
Some say from government, others say from God.
If rights come from government, then rights are subject to the whims of those who control the levers of power. In a democracy there are no rights without majority support. Gay rights do not enjoy a majority; therefore, gay rights do not exist.
If Thomas Jefferson was right when he wrote: "We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights" then rights are granted by God, and are absolute.
When Gay activists claim they have an absolute right to do that which God has absolutely forbidden, they are making a religious argument. Absolute rights are dependant upon the existence of God. In this scenario, "gay rights" constitutes an obvious contradiction.
The further America drifts from her moral roots, the more expendable your rights become!
QuietNov. 14, 2008 8:39 a.m.
I will no longer be supporting the democratic process in any other way than with my quiet vote. No polls, no dollars, no campaigning, no signs...just a vote.
If this is what can be expected when one supports a particular cause or candidate, I'm out...until I go to the voting booth. Today it's gays and Mormons. Tomorrow it's young people, Libertarians, teachers, people who listen to NPR, dog-lovers and members of the Junior League. If you've got an opinion, best keep it to yourself until you get to the voting booth....if you want to work, live, attend services, or play in your yard without harassment from the those with radical opposing views.
BriNov. 14, 2008 8:38 a.m.
It is far too easy for angry, frightened people to lump the "other" into a giant evil monolithic group of terrorists. Obviously the whole gay community didn't have a meeting and decide to terrorize the church. Surely we can see that? Oh, wait. I forgot where I lived for just a second.
East Coast LDSNov. 14, 2008 8:32 a.m.
I agree this is completely out of hand. But please, there is really no evidence that these actions are being done by gay people. It is possible that these acts were done by people who are so anti-gay that they are taking advantage of the situation to discredit and inflame feeling against gays. We just don't know.
But even if the perpetrators ARE gays upset about prop 8, it is still wrong to ascribe the actions of malcontents to the entire gay community.
I cringed every time the news media referred to the Texas polygamists as "Mormons" or even "fundamentalist Mormons" because they so don't represent the church I belong to. I suspect many of you felt the same. It is likewise wrong for us to lump all gays together behind these acts.
St. George AggieNov. 14, 2008 8:30 a.m.
I definitely think this has something to do w/ Prop. 8 because both the Mormons and the Knights of Columbus were the 2 main outspoken churches in support of Prop. 8. It is a little more than ironic that both church headquarters get mailed the same thing.
Apparently the democracy that makes our country so great means nothing anymore.
The people voted and the majority were in favor and the amendment passed. Move on! There have been many things and many candidates that I have supported that have failed according to democracy.
That's life. You move on. You don't force your hand.
This is a despicable act. I have lost sympathy for those against Prop 8 for acts like this and many others.
I know all gays are not the ones doing this, in fact it is probably not even gay people. But, wow whoever it is, is giving homosexuals a bad name.
tedNov. 14, 2008 8:28 a.m.
looks like the geys are digging themselves a deeper hole. let them do it.
VA mommaNov. 14, 2008 8:16 a.m.
Why wasn't the story about the church in Michigan front page news? Let's see that covered on the news instead of just these temple protests. Where is the coverage of that Michigan church? I want to hear what really happened.
Can you imagine if we went to their places of worship to protest them? Shameful....
AGNov. 14, 2008 8:11 a.m.
This is terrorism... and should be investigated as such! And we are called fanatics...????
IL momNov. 14, 2008 8:11 a.m.
Let's move on people. Yes on prop 8 passed with a majority of the vote in CA. Get over it and on with your lives.
AnonymousNov. 14, 2008 7:59 a.m.
"That's your family that could be threatened next."
Yeah, and Proposition 8 threatened the families of gays!
So it is OK for you to threaten their families, but when someone threatens your family ONLY THEN do you take it seriously?
I thought empathy was an ability taught by Jesus to his followers? I guess Mormons aren't true followers. They have no empathy whatsoever.
FloNov. 14, 2008 7:45 a.m.
We all probably remember when a US citizen blew up the OK Federal Bldg and killed close to 200 people. What deranged people will do cannot be comprehended by sane, moderate, tolerant people. We know further calamaties are coming, we can focus on how to stay safe.
Sounds like the temple staff did their job and procedures served to protect what could have been a clear act of terrorism. We can't take our safety for granted. One bad apple...
IL momNov. 14, 2008 7:45 a.m.
Dear Editorial,
Please thank your wife for having the courage to stand up for what she feels is right. I applaud her for writing that editorial to support prop 8.
Too bad many others are afraid they will be put on some hit list, if they voice their opinions.
Shame on those who fought against prop 8.....they are showing their true colors now......HATE.
yes on 8 momNov. 14, 2008 7:40 a.m.
When are they going to have that grandma who was attacked and spat on the Today Show or some other news show. Let's hear her story. That was just awful.
I'm sick of most of the news being one sided and not showing people who just want to protect marriage between a man and a woman. Let's hear their views.
CatsNov. 14, 2008 7:27 a.m.
I don't believe anyone is claiming that all gays have participated in this act of terrorism. However, it is JUST ONE OF MANY ACTS of persecution that have been perpetrated against the Church, and it's members, in the weeks leading up to and since the passage of proposition 8.
I believe these people are showing themselves for what they really are. They clearly don't believe in democracy, free speech or the right of citizens to vote their conscience. We will continue to stand for what's right no matter how much hate and persecution is heaped upon us.
Israelis and PalestiniansNov. 14, 2008 6:53 a.m.
Imagine being in a gay couples shoes.
One day you are legally and happily married and the next day that right is taken away.
When a right is taken away such as your marriage license or the thought that you can marry your significant other, it seems quite logical that this could drive someone to make a terrible decision on the primary party who took the right away.
I am no longer LDS, but I totally respect the church. My advice to church members is to stick your ground and turn the cheek when this garbage happens. Remember: Jesus asked God to forgive his murderers.
Wait Just A MinuteNov. 14, 2008 6:51 a.m.
Wait just a minute...before we jump to conclusions, let's let the authorities investigate the matter and take it from there. I seem to remember a month or so ago a McCain supporter that was "jumped" at an ATM machine and burned with a B. Sudden hate was spouted, "Look what Obama's supporters will do...they will stop at nothing to get their way..." Come to find out this individual did it to herself (the backwards B was clue 1...LOL). So let's all calm down and let the authorties do their job, investigate the matter, and then make arrests. You know what they say about those that make assumptions...
Stereo - typingNov. 14, 2008 6:46 a.m.
I believe that commmon sense would tell us, that all who are opposed to Prop 8 would not act in this fashion. Reality is when there is just "one bad apple" or "one rotten bunch" it reflects poorly on the entire group. The group as a whole becomes "stereo typed" - Guilt by association! This happens in all organizations.
It is impossible to control the acts of individuals who claim membership, association, etc. with any group or organization. One or two actions do not necessarily speak for the entire organization or group. That group, however, is held accountable publically for the actions of a few - if they do not denounce (in this case publically)the actions as not being representative of the group. If this is not done, all credibility will be lost!
Organizations need to denounce in-correct actions (against stated policy /doctrine) by anyone claiming membership or authorized authority in the organization. This sometimes is done publically (to protect the organization and victims) but mostly done privately.
The poor actions of a few (unless it is a authorized representative) should never be a reflection of the entire group or of organization's belief/view, BUT IT DOES! Govern yourselves appropriately.
RE: Robert OhNov. 14, 2008 6:39 a.m.
You certainly have your "rights" to speak your mind. But must it be with hate-filled bigotry? Can it be sane minds agreeing to disagree? Must it be threatening, angry, and hate filled? No, I do not ask for conformity, nor do I expect it. I ask for respect and love rather than intolerance and hate.
AWNov. 14, 2008 6:32 a.m.
The agent from the FBI said that there was no evidence linking this to proponents of prop 8. There is a problem of people automatically assuming it was a group of gay people. Even if it was, saying "these gays" is unfairly stereotyping. This implies that all homosexuals are terrorists.
I imagine those stereotyping gays as terrorists are the same that discriminate against Muslims. It's not fun when the tables are turned. On a recent visit to Texas, I had a difficult time convincing people that I was not associated with Warren Jeffs, when they heard that I was LDS.
In our congregations, we teach tolerance, not necessarily acceptance. I am not seeing a lot of tolerance on this board.
MaggieNov. 14, 2008 6:04 a.m.
We know where this came from a "no brainer". The Church has been called every name in the book. We will weather this out. The Church will continue to help those around the world. If these "terrorists" think that they can hurt the truth or the Church think again. The people have said what they want with the vote of Prop 8. And if they think that we should be more understanding then read the Bible on what is said about Gay relationships.
Mom in MONov. 14, 2008 5:59 a.m.
If you think the Church has planted this as a means of getting sympathy, you are a conspiracy theory kook. Did they also vandalize their own church buildings? Did they also send some powder to the Knights of Colubus? Did they also send death threats to themselves? Get REAL!
Tired of HomoNazisNov. 14, 2008 5:57 a.m.
I'm tired of the threats of violence by HomoNazis who are attacking people and institutions simply because they did not vote the way these trouble makers wanted them to.
We must not back down now.
JulesNov. 14, 2008 5:39 a.m.
Leave the Mormons alone already. This is getting ridiculous. Focus your anger somewhere else. The people of California have spoken. AGAIN.
JennyNov. 14, 2008 4:45 a.m.
Well said Jessica! I'm pretty sure that almost all members of the GLBT community feel as you do. I mean, how many times does an overly-zealous group of Mormons give all Mormons a bad name? (I'll give you hint: a lot).
RE: JessicaNov. 14, 2008 4:05 a.m.
I am glad there are still sane people on both sides of this issue. I voted FOR the family, but as one who has gay friends and relatives, I can relate somewhat to the disappointment that must be felt by others. (The reaction, however, is inexcusable.) I did not vote out of so-called homophobia, but out of a conviction that without the traditional family, we can't preserve society as it is. I think we've got a taste the past few days of what sort of society might well result WITHOUT the preservation of the traditional family.
Jessica, I'm glad you recognize that what's being done here is nothing more or less than domestic terrorism. The people who are doing this deserve imprisonment, not "marriage." There ARE still good and decent people at heart among you--I recognize that. I hope you and other reasonable, law-abiding, civic-minded GLBT who REALLY believe in "tolerance" can help the outraged engage in dialogue rather than cruelty.
These acts of violence, bigotry, and oppression are NOT winning friends to their cause OR showing that those who commit them deserve ANY "rights"--other than their Miranda rights, that is.
Let's all be civilized!
me againNov. 14, 2008 2:23 a.m.
For those blanket accusing gays of this and that, especially of being violent and hurting their cause and/or not speaking out against these violent actions....
at the very least, read some of these comments! Some are here speaking calmly, regretting the extreme actions, not wishing to be represented by them.
Worried SonNov. 14, 2008 2:07 a.m.
All of you on both sides - it comes down to one thing: The people receiving these things are someone's relative. In fact, my dad works in the department that received this letter. It could have been my dad! It could have been toxic, and not just an idiot prank! To anyone, gay, straight, black, white, I don't care - next time you think about someone "different" from you, just remember - that's my family you're threatening. That's your family that could be threatened next.
JessicaNov. 14, 2008 1:36 a.m.
I am gay, transgendered, and I was (and am) obviously very much against Prop 8. But what is being done in my name is *WRONG*, DEAD wrong, and I want the people responsible for this act of domestic terrorism brought to justice for their crimes.
These criminals do not speak for me. They do not represent me. What they have done is a disgrace not just to the GLBT community, but to the nation.
We DO want tolerance. (What else would we want? Intolerance?) But the way to achieve tolerance is THROUGH BEING TOLERANT; the small-minded criminals who perpetrated this act of violence, on the other hand, are harming our cause and making us look like monsters. I am shamed by their actions.
bismalNov. 14, 2008 1:00 a.m.
I think we all know people in this community that hate gays enough to try to discredit them
Please wait until the truth is out and then remember it's a sin to judge others, payable by your being judge.
slow learnerNov. 14, 2008 12:22 a.m.
I used to be sympathtic to the gay comunity, not anymore! Your actions speak louder than your words! You have no honor, no respect, no class,no tolerance!
ParkerNov. 14, 2008 12:11 a.m.
I would be willing to bet that if the vote were held again tomorrow, Prop 8 would pass by a much greater margin. Way to go, gays - you are really helping your cause.
katherine66Nov. 13, 2008 11:53 p.m.
I agree with you double standard..We know EXACTLY who is behind this. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. Hopefully someone will be spending some quality time in a prison.
SoCalOpinionNov. 13, 2008 11:47 p.m.
Let's start by saying that this issue has nothing to do with being republican or democrat so for those of you who went there, don't even start. People in both parties voted yes and no on prop 8 so you can drop that argument. Now onto the real issue...I am extremely appalled that someone would even try to pull this hoax and to top it off they weren't brave enough to put who they were or their agenda. I know people are saying don't point blame...but it clearly is someone in favor of gay marriage and is aiming their anger at the LDS church. I think these activists are taking a step backwards for gay rights if they want people to be on their side. I agree that this should be considered a terrorist act and if Homeland Security finds the sender, they should be prosecuted. Its one thing to protest but to do this when people are still on edge because of terrorists is just plain dumb.
ScottNov. 13, 2008 11:45 p.m.
Just another day at the office....
How disgusting....Nov. 13, 2008 11:35 p.m.
That these terroristic acts are targeting religious groups whose members have the freedom to vote for something. Now it seems that the losing side is resorting to horrific intimidation, threats, vandalism, and terrorism. Way to go anti-prop 8 people, whatever sympathy I was feeling for the gay community has gone right out the window. To target members of religious groups is a hate crime isn't it? Really, I was feeling sorry about prop-8 passing, but now I sure don't. Sorry, the Mormons don't have that much influence to have passed prop 8 alone! I am sure that the 52% of people who voted for Prop-8 feel vindicated that it passed. The outrage by the anti-prop 8 community is sure not winning any sympathy. Harassing people for the way they choose to vote is wrong. I don't want anyone to think that is ok. It seems very un-American to me.
re: Anonymous | 9:26 p.m.Nov. 13, 2008 11:33 p.m.
"I'm only sorry that it was probably a hoax." Thank you for your excellent example of tolerance (sarcasm)
GirlNov. 13, 2008 11:31 p.m.
I'm not sure if this was an act by prop-8 supporters but it is not right to send toxic chemicals thru the mail shouldn't they have detectors for that kind of stuff and to sent it to 2 temples that made me mad I hope they find who did this!
ZNov. 13, 2008 11:29 p.m.
I am a member of the LDS Church is good standing. I supported Prop 8 and have been dissapointed in the protests following the democratic passing of Prop. 8. I am saddenned that opponents of Prop. 8 can't seem to be tolerant of our views.
However, I fear that we as members, myself included, run the risk of blowing up this minor persecution into a great ordeal. The truth is, Latter-day Saints have faced far worse, and I'm not just talking about the pioneer days. .
The Church has faced criticism in the past, it will continue to do so. Let's just be happy that Prop. 8 passed and continue to try to be Christlike.
JBK from Boise, IDNov. 13, 2008 11:26 p.m.
It is too bad, if ultimately the powder did come from the "other side of the aisle" from how LDS people voted on Prop. 8. In our country, voicing your opinion is not looked down upon nor is worshipping how you wish nor is voting the dictates of your own conscience. If the origin is proved as many suspect (and, circumstantially, it seems to point to opponents of Prop. 8), then a line has been crossed. Moving from hurt feelings (i.e., by the passage of California's marriage amendment) to hurting others not only crosses a line, it becomes criminal. And, yes, had I been a Californian, I would have voted against the amendment. But I would live with it or move to another state. It's similar to having to live with Barak Obama as the next president, which is not palatable to me.
true blueNov. 13, 2008 11:26 p.m.
That just inexusable. I can't believe this kind of stuff happens. There are crazy people in the world
RobbieNov. 13, 2008 11:14 p.m.
Violence begets violence. Perceived attacks by the LDS religion and other religions won't go unattested to; it's the same philosophy in any circumstance. Don't expect to slander millions of Americans and be respected by those same individuals. The LDS church has more enemies than gay proponents, it's wrong to assume they made the attack. Even if an attack was made with that agenda, don't move so quickly to stigmatize the entire gay community - - every religion, gender, nationality and orientation has a violent subgroup that does not represent the entire group. Multiple attack locations may mean multiple attackers, but this does not represent the whole community.
WhomeverNov. 13, 2008 11:06 p.m.
sympathy I had for mormons is gone forever and ever.
True ColorsNov. 13, 2008 11:02 p.m.
The picture of the gays at the LA Temple with the sign "Mormon Scum" and other disparaging remarks show their true colors.
Why no outrage by the national media? Governor Swartzenegger? President Elect Obama?
Why no apology from all of you gays that are trying to convince us that isn't your true colors and we shouldn't judge an entire group by the actions of a small minority?
How about a press conference apologizing for the criminal damage at the temple and the frenzied masses intimidating people who exercised their right to vote?
What a disgrace. Way to win over your friends and neighbors.
ALL MAINSTREAM MEDIA SHAME!!!Nov. 13, 2008 10:58 p.m.
They cover a protest and they show Gay union supporters giving their opinion and they question 'should we really interfere?' etc but they DO NOT talk about this!? And people wonder why as members of the church we say we have to defend ourselves from anti-LDS talk all the time. I support prop 8, I also support the rights of those who are against prop 8, their rights are to voice an opinion. I support this as I support my religions RIGHT to speak to its members about issues and try to spread what we believe is good. The LDS church can try to influence everyone to do what we believe is good. Why? BECAUSE INFLUENCE IS NOT FORCE. We try to convince others that our 'philosophy' is right. GAYS DO THE SAME! But people voted, we didn't force anyone. The church did nothing wrong. The members did nothing wrong. We stand for what we believe along with millions of others of different faiths, no faiths, ethnicities in what is only NATURAL and has been accepted as correct for more than a millennia. But now we are evil, bigots, and discriminatory? LEARN TOLERANCE OF OUR OPINION, it's hypocritical!
WhateverNov. 13, 2008 10:53 p.m.
sympathy I had for gays is GONE FOREVER.
irishmanNov. 13, 2008 10:52 p.m.
Robert Oh, it was sent to Church Headquarters, as I was there when they came with the Haz. team.
Red RocksNov. 13, 2008 10:51 p.m.
I hate, hate crimes. Can't we all try to be more peaceful and loving to each other, in a very mixed up world, with mixed up people? Let's all try to be nice and not so judgmental of one another. I say, Peace to ALL and a very goodnight.
I dont thinkNov. 13, 2008 10:27 p.m.
that its the no on prop8 folks there are tons of others that dont like the mormon church, seems like now is the time to attack. Its not cool to protest in this manner.
just me to WELLNov. 13, 2008 10:26 p.m.
I'm confused by your remarks. Did you confuse the word condemn with condone?
AnonymousNov. 13, 2008 10:24 p.m.
People have a right to protest, but they don't have a right to rough up, spit on and push around old ladies with a cross. They don't have a right to vandalize property. Where is the public outrage?
KevinNov. 13, 2008 10:21 p.m.
Please. If you people on here think this act is some concerted effort on behalf of homosexuals, you are insulting your own intelligence. Who knows who did this? There are a small number of vandalism crimes, and this crime to terrorize.
People who obviously are not concerned about advancing the interests of homosexuals are carrying out these crimes. Who in his right mind would think something like this would bring about positive change in favor of homosexual rights?
Also, please keep in mind, the 9/11 anthrax scare wasn't even perpetrated by the Islamic terrorists.
ParadiseDestroyedNov. 13, 2008 10:15 p.m.
I think we should be careful not to blame the "No8" crowd but with all the recent protests and attacks, I think its fair to put them at the top of the suspect list.
I think lots of people are afraid that our Constitutional rights are being attacked in the form of intimidation, attacks, and blackmail. Politicians abandoned have abandoned Constitution and the will of th people and are doing whatever they can to over overturn Prop 8 even though traditional marriage was voted on and passed twice by California citizens.
It used to be unthinkable that homosexual movement would ever be accused of committing hate crimes but with recent events, its possible for people and institutions to be victims of gay hate nowadays.
MarieNov. 13, 2008 10:11 p.m.
The ridiculousness of the whole thing is that the gays don't understand LDS history. In 1890, we were told to discontinue a practice regarding marriage that was unpopular. And we did - without terrorizing or picketing or protesting or threatening or calling names or anything else.
How much further?Nov. 13, 2008 9:48 p.m.
The no on prop 8 people have done themselves further harm. Do they think this will stop people from going to the temple? I think not. Now the FBI and Federal Post Office is involved, I have faith they will investigate this thoroughly. Media attention only feeds the frenzy these protestors stir up. This is indeed an act of terrorism and hate crimes. I say 2 and 2 make 4 against the no people, but it could possibly be someone taking advantage of the situation for their own hate agenda. I know where my opinion lies. The protestor's actions point the direction.
nothing to do with gays?Nov. 13, 2008 9:39 p.m.
Oh, sure, after all the violent protests, vandalism and threats made verbally and on the Internet by hard-core gay rights advocates who have demonized Mormons, Catholics, blacks, Hispanics, and any demographic that supported Prop 8, there's no reason to suspect these envelopes containing a white powder meant to symbolize a deadly chemical had anything to do with a hate crime against Mormons and Catholics. Are you people nuts?
AnonymousNov. 13, 2008 9:38 p.m.
Weak people will go after the weak. The gay agenda is weak and has chosen to go after the smallest and weakest of religious institutions involved in the matter, Nice job and mighty big of you. Leave the lds church alone, it did you no harm! You are both struggling groups and it does not good for each of you to go at each other, it just draws each of you down in credibility and support.
We have had it with you tyrantsNov. 13, 2008 9:33 p.m.
Robert Oh,
"Mr. Editorial, what you really want is for those who believe differently than you do to be quite and sit down (in the back of the bus). It'd be easier for you to throw illogical rationalizations at your fears to justify your need to have others conform to your beliefs."
So anyone who disagrees with you must be labeled in this manner. How dare you hijack what my people went through and compare it to what is happening now. You have no right to compare what happened to blacks who had our civil rights violated to those who want the law changed.
"You may not like it, but there are many who have had enough. Lots of people have been motivated to find their voice to express what they've hidden for a very long time. Some may be better at it than others, but that's no reason to shut them up."
Who is trying to shut someone up? It seems to me that those who support same-sex marriage are the ones trying to shut people up who have found their voice and are voting and speaking out in defense of their rights and liberties.
A sorry messNov. 13, 2008 9:31 p.m.
Until we find out who sent the envelopes, the suspicion will be on the Gay community who are gathering in increasingly larger crowds--LA, SLC, NYC. To the average American this pattern will appear vengeful and threatening, and will only weaken their message of tolerance, love, and acceptance.
BlondieNov. 13, 2008 9:28 p.m.
For heaven sake, people, settle down! Why don't we wait to see what the white powder is and see if the authorities can find out who did what to whom before we go making all these ridiculous speculations and accusations. For all anyone knows it could have been "Avon calling" with a sample! Give me a break!
AnonymousNov. 13, 2008 9:26 p.m.
I'm only sorry that it was probably a hoax.
AnonymousNov. 13, 2008 9:15 p.m.
How ridiculous to suppose that a friend of the Church or a Mormon sent the powder to garner sympathy! I think it was a carefully planned terrorist plot by the fringe of the fringe who targeted LA and SLC and also the Knights of Columbus building in Connecticut--where a leftist judge made homosexual marriage legal yesterday. The KC group I think would be obscure to most Mormons here in the West. I would just assume that the Catholic Church in Connecticut voiced disfavor in the judge's judgment of yesterday.
Prop8 losers also voiced anger against African-American ministers who encouraged their congregations to vote yes. I think the Rainbow Coalition is finally showing us their true colors!
FundraisingNov. 13, 2008 9:13 p.m.
I've never seen better fundraisers than these anti-prop 8 activists.
I only chipped in a little bit last tim. Next time, I'm all in.
HeidiNov. 13, 2008 9:00 p.m.
Those protesting the passing of Prop 8 said they would not give up until they get their way. I think it is very nice of the authorities to not assume that Prop 8 protestors are behind the vandalism at churches, and leaving a burning copy of the Book of Mormon on the steps of a church, and now the white powder sent to 2 temples and a Knights of Columbus building. It may just be baby powder, but it was obviously intended to appear as anthrax powder. Whoever is behind all of these attacks should be tried with the harsher hate crime penalties. Not all hate crimes are against homosexuals. It's my opinion that protestors of Prop 8 are behind these attacks. But that's just me.
Late learnerNov. 13, 2008 8:55 p.m.
And to think I was starting to lean towards no on 8. This is a disgrace. I didn't realize the message before, I realize now that this was an issue of religious freedom and not gay marriage. I now see which side was telling lies.
AnonymousNov. 13, 2008 8:53 p.m.
It's just kind of interesting, because if this has to do with Prop 8, it's not like the Mormon church makes up more than half the population of California. In fact the Catholic church is the largest church in the state.
Face the music. The people voted and according to our democratic government, they were heard, and the majority won twice (lest we forget prop 22 back in 2000). I wonder how many people actually have looked into the fine details of prop. 8 and what it would force churches to do in regards to marriage. Going back to history, this country was founded based on freedom, and that includes freedom of religion. The vote for most people probably had nothing to do with hate, it most likely had to do with personal beliefs and church doctrines. So should people have their beliefs taken away from them too?
Rise AboveNov. 13, 2008 8:51 p.m.
I guess it was not Homosexuals that vandalized the L.A. Temple. Lets not accuse anyone, It is just a coincidence that this happens after the California public done the right thing. Homosexuality is Blasphemy and it says so in the Bible. Brothers and Sisters you do not have to bow to public pressure and accept these sinners. What these people are doing is morally wrong and we all know it. They could repent and forsake their sins, but they don't. They just try to force the World to accept them. When the Prophet takes up a cause it is for good reason. Listen to the Prophet, Be vigilant and prayerful constantly brothers and sisters, Be faithful to the Lord and keep his commandments and ordinances, live your life and let them condemn themselves. Don't hate but instead try to bring these people to the Lord if they will. Show mercy and mercy will come. But we all know that sin is sin and they must repent to be saved. Remember Prop. 8 is a very good thing and every state should do one. We as Saints should rise above this bickering and proceed as usual.
TiredNov. 13, 2008 8:38 p.m.
Don't you just love the radical gay community and their supporters? "We can't have our way so let's become terrorists. That will solve everything." Sheesh, what a bunch of losers! I'm sure the vast majority of that ilk are well meaning and sincere but these radical outbursts are more than counter-productive to their cause.
Robert OhNov. 13, 2008 8:32 p.m.
Mr. Editorial, what you really want is for those who believe differently than you do to be quite and sit down (in the back of the bus). It'd be easier for you to throw illogical rationalizations at your fears to justify your need to have others conform to your beliefs.
Yeah, It'd be easier for me to go back to a time when I believed in Santa Claus. It's not going to happen.
You may not like it, but there are many who have had enough. Lots of people have been motivated to find their voice to express what they've hidden for a very long time. Some may be better at it than others, but that's no reason to shut them up.
It's not going away!
Liberty will prevail over tyrantNov. 13, 2008 8:31 p.m.
"I'm frightened. Strong beliefs are one thing, commitment and purpose are others, but violence to push such is frightening."
A lot of us are frightened but we must have courage and not be intimidated. If called upon to give our life for our freedoms and liberties we should do so. Those who support forcing same-sex marriage on the majority should not be allowed to intimidate us. We should stand call. Being frightened is okay since it makes us aware of danger and the danger that these tyrants pose is great enough to warrant a reasonable fear.
There are many who have called for Temples and our Churches to be burnt down, for attacks on those who voted for Prop. 8 and who threaten to harm their own families who disagree with them. The more united we are and the more solidarity we express in defending our rights the more angry they will become at not being able to violate our rights.
They cannot and will not destroy the Constitution or deprive us of our rights. In the word of Mahatma Gandhi they may take our life but they will not have our obedience.
WellNov. 13, 2008 8:27 p.m.
I am not seeing anybody in the gay/lesbian community condone such actions even if they have nothing to do with it. Even previous acts of hateful words and such haven't be condoned.
So step your cause up, prop 8/gay marriage supporters. If you truly teach tolerance and want to come off as the better group, then step up. Because the silence isn't helping your cause.
SomeoneNov. 13, 2008 8:27 p.m.
I just hope it isn't toxic.
Gays stop shoving your will downNov. 13, 2008 8:26 p.m.
Let me express my sympathy for you and your wife and family. Your family shouldn't have had to go through that and I am truly saddened that your wife's choice to exercise her freedom of speech resulted in these hateful and bigoted comments.
Those who support same-sex marriage have never been about tolerance instead they have favored imposing the will of a minority upon the majority who hasn't violated their civil rights. The days of the early Church aren't that far in the past and today we are still faced with tyrants and traitors.
Many of us know and understand how you feel because we also have been treated the same way by these evil tyrants who want to intimidate us. We must not allow them to win.
Your wife and your family should stand tall knowing that no matter what happens you are only defending your rights and liberties against those who would deprive you of them. We must continue to exercise our rights and stand up for ourselves and our loved ones against those who would attack us and attempt to impose their tyrannical rule upon the majority through the courts. May God bless you.
I'm....Nov. 13, 2008 8:22 p.m.
Non-LDS and a backer of prop 8. Please let the investigators do their jobs and not jump to conclusion. I know it is coincidental that things are happening during the protesting of prop 8, but lets wait until all of the investigative facts are in.
a pointNov. 13, 2008 8:22 p.m.
While there is no evidence that this is a response to the Prop 8 vote, (and I do believe we shouldn't judge), the gay community has cast suspision upon themselves by their sour grapes response to the vote of the majority. Protesting outside buildings and churches, targeting the LDS church, threatening to boycott Utah... all of this makes them the natural first suspects. I don't know if this or any of the other vandalism is related and I won't draw any conclusions until there is some sort of proof, but the gay community shouldn't be upset that people suspect them based on their other recations so far.
Your bigotry isn't well receivedNov. 13, 2008 8:12 p.m.
"To everyone who is encompassing the entire anti-prop8 movement, how hypocritical you are. Only a few months ago two missionaries in CO were arrested for vandalizing a Catholic church. Did that show the "true colors" of the ENTIRE LDS faith? No, it certainly didn't."
The difference is in how they behaved. Two members or 19 members of a group do not represent the entire group anymore than a handful of gays would represent the gay community but their votes and their behavior after their vote does represent every opponent of Proposition 8. Their opposition to Prop. 8 and their attempts to force their will on the majority of the people is the very reason why they are considered tyrants and terrorists.
"One crazed individual, or even a small group, does not represent the entire organization. And yes, re:Anonymous, doing so IS stereotyping and a clear form of prejudice."
You are right about that but every person who voted against Prop. 8 represent themselves and they did attempt to force the majority to bow to their will. To suggest that those who do not share your views on this are prejudiced is bigoted.
disgusted CalifornianNov. 13, 2008 8:12 p.m.
Knights of Columbus and two LDS temples receive letters and you wonder if it is connected to Prop 8? It is obviously someone involved with the no on 8 issue.
Yes two missionaries created problems with poor behavior in Colorado(no excuse for what they did), but that doesn't compare to the thousands who are demonstrating at temples. They are disrupting services, defacing private property, hanging very insulting signs and threatening the LDS church. Now the powdery substance.
An LDS member in California was forced to resign from his job because when it was discovered he contributed $1000 to Yes on 8 his business was threatened with a boycott.
It is insulting that no government official has come out to condemn the actions of the gay community. If it was the other way around, we definitely would have heard condemnation from government officials.
We have spoken, here in California, with our vote. It is time that people listen. If they don't like the results, let them seek their remedy in the courts or with the voters. Stop the threats, insults, and irrational hate before someone is injured.
Find out who he is and arrestNov. 13, 2008 8:03 p.m.
The attack,
"is on you tube."
The video is shocking and I feel more sorry for the reporter who you could tell was really scared. Every day reporters put themselves in the line of fire to report the news to us. Some do it in Iraq where they could be killed while others do it at protests where mobs form to intimidate the American people.
My heart goes out to this reporter. There were times in the video where protesters deliberately blocked the camera. It was at those times that my fears for them increased.
Knowing that nothing happened to them provided some comfort but imagine the fear this poor reporter and her cameraman must have felt at the time. They have violated the rights of the majority for too long and their tyranny must not be allowed to stand. The man in the video should be arrested for assault.
He committed a crime and should pay for it.
To Dr DudeNov. 13, 2008 8:01 p.m.
What you say is quite possible, but if you peruse the more extreme gay websites you'll find they've been advocating acts very similar to this against Pro8 entities.
It could be what you suggest, but I think now with the inclusion of the Catholic Press, it is more and more unlikely.
I have a bad feeling we'll wake up tomorrow and find several more entities have also been targeted.
Henry @ 7:30 p.m.Nov. 13, 2008 7:58 p.m.
"Only a few months ago two missionaries in CO were arrested for vandalizing a Catholic church. Did that show the "true colors" of the ENTIRE LDS faith? No, it certainly didn't..."
I get your point, but they are also very different.
Those missionaries were foolish, were roundly condemned for their acts by fellow church members and leadership, expressed remorse and made amends, and did nobody any bodily harm.
Where is the equivalent reaction of horror and condemnation from the pro-gay side? Nowhere. All we hear are reports of current protest and the next one being planned.
I hope these powder incidents are harmless and that the perpetrator can be found and brought to justice, but now that a Catholic enterprise has been affected, it is quite clear the mailings are linked to Prop 8.
Those saying it is being done by someone trying to gather support for the LDS Church is engaging in wishful thinking. Try checking out the more extreme gay websites and you'll find they've been advocating acts very similar to this on Pro8 entities.
Actions speak louder than wordsNov. 13, 2008 7:52 p.m.
Dr Dude,
"I'm LDS and in favor of prop 8, but I've known many tactless Mormons in my day. Anyone think of the possibility of this being an actually "friend" of the church, or even a church member, committing a fake act of terror to make the opposition look bad? In the modern world of anonymity it's easy to make your enemy look worse. I could get various websites and post under the name "GayMormon_Hater" and say nasty, violent things about Mormons with the intent of making Gays look violent and radical. Settle down everybody."
Anything's possible but there are actual videos and pictures of them attacking people, vandalizing the Los Angeles Temple and threatening people. There is also evidence of them singling out members of the Church and protesting their homes, and businesses. One family who owns a Insurance business had protesters show up with signs that read "Purves Family Supports Homophobia."
I'm sorry but actions speak louder than words and these tyrants are intent on trying to intimidate anyone who opposes them and there are instances where people who opposed Prop. 8 come under attack such as Amy Kuschel who had an employee who donated in support.
djNov. 13, 2008 7:48 p.m.
I'm frightened. Strong beliefs are one thing, commitment and purpose are others, but violence to push such is frightening.
AnonymousNov. 13, 2008 7:41 p.m.
Charge this as a Federal Crime, with a terrorist sentence.
EditorialNov. 13, 2008 7:41 p.m.
My wife wrote an editorial in a newspaper supporting Prop 8 and the people of California for voting in favor of the Proposition to protect marriage. What was the result? A bevy of hateful, shameful, mindless and bigoted comments aimed right at her. I agree with others on this post who comment that the opponents of Prop 8 who preached tolerance and love for all are now showing what this is really all about. It certainly can't be tolerance. It is shameful and hurtful. In some ways, it's beginning to feel like the early times of the church when violence knocked at the doorstep. It would not surprise me if this is next. And all in the name of tolerance and rights. Wow.
Dr DudeNov. 13, 2008 7:37 p.m.
I'm LDS and in favor of prop 8, but I've known many tactless Mormons in my day. Anyone think of the possibility of this being an actually "friend" of the church, or even a church member, committing a fake act of terror to make the opposition look bad? In the modern world of anonymity it's easy to make your enemy look worse. I could get various websites and post under the name "GayMormon_Hater" and say nasty, violent things about Mormons with the intent of making Gays look violent and radical. Settle down everybody.
CatsNov. 13, 2008 7:30 p.m.
I believe these people who call Mormons haters and scream persection are exposing themselves for what they really are. This is an act of terrorism and many other acts of religious persecution are being perpetrated against the Church and members across America. Of course, this is nothing new to us. We have been the victims of persecution since the very beginning.
To The Members in California: Please know that we are praying for you and have been all along. We celebrate your courage. Now your governor and others are calling for the courts to overturn the will of the people instead of defending your religious freedom and your rights as citizens.
Please, we must all continue to work, pray and fight for what's right. Thanks to all the other Churches and individuals who are standing up and defending us. We must all stand together in a righteous cause.
HenryNov. 13, 2008 7:30 p.m.
To everyone who is encompassing the entire anti-prop8 movement, how hypocritical you are. Only a few months ago two missionaries in CO were arrested for vandalizing a Catholic church. Did that show the "true colors" of the ENTIRE LDS faith? No, it certainly didn't. No more than 19 Islamic extremists crashing planes into buildings represents the entire Islamic community or the KKK represents all of Christianity. One crazed individual, or even a small group, does not represent the entire organization. And yes, re:Anonymous, doing so IS stereotyping and a clear form of prejudice.
BertNov. 13, 2008 7:29 p.m.
Or it could be a pro-mormon person trying to stir things up. You know, that persecution thing you all talk about.
media manipulation?Nov. 13, 2008 7:26 p.m.
I think they planted it themselves to garner some sympathy.
The attackNov. 13, 2008 7:17 p.m.
is on you tube.
Palm Spring, CANov. 13, 2008 7:16 p.m.
Same gender proponents bashed an elderly lady - marriage defender today - it was caught live by news cameras.
CongratulationsNov. 13, 2008 7:14 p.m.
Congratulations Anti-Prop 8 folks. You have now joined the realm of the terrorists. Your messages of love and peace and understanding have just turned into a message of hate, religious discrimination, racial discrimination, and violence. You have just showed America exactly what you are!
TodayNov. 13, 2008 7:12 p.m.
An angry mob of homosexual activists in Southern California attacked an elderly bespectacled woman carrying a cross then shouted her down during a live TV interview as she tried to explain to a reporter her defense of the state's new marriage amendment.
There's reasonable causeNov. 13, 2008 7:11 p.m.
Stop pointing fingers so fast,
"This probably has nothing to do with gay people. You are showing the kind of prejudice and hate that they keep accusing us of having against them. Let's just hope there was no harm done and move on without pointing fingers until the authorities have actually confirmed something."
There is a lot of evidence that it was a gay person who was behind this. They vandalize the Los Angeles Temple, attempt to intimidate worshipers at the Salt Lake Temple, make hateful comments online about how our Temples should be burnt down, how we should all watch our backs. Now there is evidence that people are burning copies of the Book of Mormon, setting fires outside of LDS Chapels. When you add it all together its safe to assume that a gay person is behind this.
The very nature of their protests are a tyrannical attempt to intimidate Mormons into not voting in the next election or donating to opposition to same-sex marriage. Even by themselves these protests are all terrorist acts.
InterestedNov. 13, 2008 7:06 p.m.
I'll be interested to see if the national media covers any of this.
It's not a good idea to point fingers until we know anything for sure, but after Mike-Riverside, CA at 6:35 p.m. posted that there was an envelope delivered to the L.A. temple, it would appear that this could be going in the direction of a definite hate crime.
Still, I think we must act in a mature manner, and understand that these are extremists who do things like this. But what the public does with this information, well, that's a different story. Seems like they like to choose who they rally around if it fits their agenda and biases. Even so, it's useless to get bitter. Better to move forward.
nowNov. 13, 2008 6:55 p.m.
this is a little too much in a land that's known for freedom!!
ChucklesNov. 13, 2008 6:48 p.m.
Mormons rock the world! They are the nicest, most awesome people you will ever meet. Whether this letter be from some enraged homosexual or some idiotic person just trying to make a joke, it doesn't matter. The LDS people don't deserve this, no matter how full of goodness and righteousness they get.
CalifornianNov. 13, 2008 6:47 p.m.
The LA temple was also closed today due to a white powdery substance mailed there. Anyone still doubt who's behind this?
AnonymousNov. 13, 2008 6:37 p.m.
The local LDS bishop lives near. He had Yes on Prop 8 signs. It never crossed my mind that taking it was acceptable. Being a liberal, means tolerance to me. In all movements there are extremist. Read about Porter Rockwell.
Mike - Riverside, CANov. 13, 2008 6:35 p.m.
Local TV stations in LA are now reporting that the LA Temple also received an envelope with white powder today. The TV stations are not getting confused with the SLC Temple becasue in the same broadcast they mentioned that that temple also received an envelope with with powder.
Joe MoeNov. 13, 2008 6:34 p.m.
As a Mormon and a Prop8 proponent, I have to say, odds are this is a response to the recent vote. However, it's also very possible it's totally unrelated, or even something mailed by a Prop8 proponent to inflame the issue even further and reflect poorly on the Prop8 opponents (anyone could foresee -- and can now see plainly -- what assumptions could be made).
No use blaming this on every gay or every Prop8 opponent. It's just one wacko out there somewhere.
John Pack LambertNov. 13, 2008 6:33 p.m.
Why at 5:18 is also confused. Well, besides the fact there is no evidence presented in the article that would link this event to Proposition 8, it would be those against Proposition 8 who are mad at the church.
Hey for all we know this was sent by someone mad about polygamy. The fact that the church has been excommunicating people for practicing polygamy for nearly a century does not prevent people from vocally speaking out against the churh on such issues, and so there is no reason to believe it prevents hate acts based on this issue as well.
My point is there are many reasons people decide to hate the church.
John Pack LambertNov. 13, 2008 6:30 p.m.
My first counsel in for people to calm down. There is no cear indication where this envolope came from. We do not know if it was harmful, and we know even less about why it was sent, so it might be good to not assume anything.
On the other hand, I have to admit Eric at 5:43 really confuses me. Either he does not understand Proposition 8, is really confused about the position the church took, or does not like it when other people espouse his political position.
Robert OhNov. 13, 2008 6:30 p.m.
Doesn't pass the smell test.
Why would someone send something like this directly to the SL Temple? Why not Church HQ?
Doesn't all the mail go through the office building mail room?
I think we need more info.
Re:AnonymousNov. 13, 2008 6:29 p.m.
Nobody blamed all the gays for this. You are creating predudice. Who stereotyped? You are inventing predudice. You are a hypocrit!
The church leaders asked us to love and not judge. You could learn something from them before you speak again and throw both Mormons and gays under the bus which you just did in your comment.
FrankNov. 13, 2008 6:29 p.m.
I have to agree with Michael Jay. There are many uninvolved people out there who would love to see an out of control fight start who could be responsible. And even if it was a antiprop8 extremist, its exactly that an extremist. Extremists don't define the group.
I may be anti-gay marriage but I dont want to see this escalate any farther than protests and discussions. However due to recent acts of vandalism and assault being associated with no2prop8 supporters they need to act quick to distance themselfs from this one.
AnonymousNov. 13, 2008 6:25 p.m.
Amen to Anonymous.
terrorismNov. 13, 2008 6:19 p.m.
plain and simple.
r2Nov. 13, 2008 6:18 p.m.
I personally could not care less if gays get married.
I have 2 other serious concerns however that neither side seems interested in answering.
First that if marriage is to be redefined that it be the will of the people on a federalists (state by state basis) Just like acceptance or rejection of abortion, redistributive taxes, and immigration all need to get off the federal level or we are going to head to another civil war. Let states reap the good and bad from their decisions rather then forcing their morality on the rest of us.
Second soon after gay marriage is legalized any religions that teach homosexuality is a sin will be susceptible to hate crime charges. This would eventually include casting such church leaders into prisons and revoking their tax exempts status. (it will just take one violent psychopath who the media can paint as religious to give politicians the excuse)
Even those churches that disallow gay people to marry in their buildings or temples will also be sued or declared non-tax exempt. (this has already happened more then once in states with gay marriage)
In short it is either freedom of religion or gay marriage.
Mark BredthauerNov. 13, 2008 6:18 p.m.
I can be okay with the picketing but sending an unknown powder into the temple is going too far.
Another OpinionNov. 13, 2008 6:15 p.m.
Putting white powder (simulated or real anthrax) in an envelope and sending it to the LDS Church has one purpose and one purpose only, to imply, or commit an act of terrorism.
If this cowardly act is linked to the "No on Proposition 8" supporters, it speaks volumes. In addition to being prosecuted by Federal authorities, the leaders of the "No on Proposition 8" movement should denounce and condemn the act.
This type of behavior will do far more damage in the court of public opinion than any "message" those responsible for this hoped to make to the LDS Church and its members.
Prophet, Seer and RevelatorNov. 13, 2008 6:12 p.m.
I am reminded of President Hinckley's comment about the changes around the Salt Lake Temple were because he felt the need to protect it....
Get ready the hoe is digging deep in the weeding out process!!!
Typical methodsNov. 13, 2008 6:06 p.m.
Typical of liberal thinking bozos. No free speech if you oppose their way of thinking. Scare tactics if you disagree with them. Nice work gay community; that will change peoples minds about gay marriage.
planktonNov. 13, 2008 5:58 p.m.
Could be an act of terrorism too. What a bunch of miserable thugs!
Sad SituationNov. 13, 2008 5:58 p.m.
How amazing would it be if both sides tried to foster a little more understanding. How great would it be if we valued people, not only people who we agreed with.
No on Prop. 8 has its merits. Yes on Prop. 8 has its merits also. Neither side is completely wrong, neither side has no poor repercussions if their side won.
What do we do when we cannot come to a consensus? We have a vote. The people voted. Let's not call them bigots, on either side. They are doing what they feel is right. Let us all do that, and then be tolerant enough to let people have their own views.
What??Nov. 13, 2008 5:55 p.m.
There was no where in this article that stated homosexuals sent the substance. And was it the homosexuals that sent the white powder out years ago when this threat first started??
California VoterNov. 13, 2008 5:54 p.m.
I was not a supporter of prop 8. But this kind of childish intimidation against the LDS is completely unacceptable. It is wrong and extremely pitiful.
Stop pointing fingers so fastNov. 13, 2008 5:52 p.m.
This probably has nothing to do with gay people. You are showing the kind of prejudice and hate that they keep accusing us of having against them. Let's just hope there was no harm done and move on without pointing fingers until the authorities have actually confirmed something.
AnonymousNov. 13, 2008 5:51 p.m.
This is completely uncalled for. However, just because some nut sent some white powder to the temple doesn't mean all gays are nuts. LDS people don't want to be stereotyped and gay people don't want to be either.
Michael JayNov. 13, 2008 5:45 p.m.
Don't just jump to conclusions, it could be some other party or person that hates the church and saw this as an opporutinty to drive a wedge even farther between The Church and other groups.
baseless?Nov. 13, 2008 5:45 p.m.
Why the baseless accusations?
EricNov. 13, 2008 5:43 p.m.
As a supporter of Propostion 8 and a strong opponent of the Church's involvement in this issue, I am embarassed. We all know what this is about. There are much better ways to handle this.
Slow to judgeNov. 13, 2008 5:39 p.m.
Seattle Guy seems to have inside information. Hmmmm.
Friend of the ChurchNov. 13, 2008 5:32 p.m.
Unbelieveable. If this were the government being sent an envelope with white powder it would be considered a terrorist act, to gays it would be a hate crime, but because it is to the Church, the mainstream media, and enemies of the Church could care less. Give me a break. This is getting out of hand.
ChrisNov. 13, 2008 5:31 p.m.
Wow, it's interesting to me that so many liberal people talk about tolerance and acceptance but when it comes right down to it, they do exactly the opposite. If you're going to "talk the talk", then "walk the walk". Have respect for others.
WhyNov. 13, 2008 5:18 p.m.
Can't the people who support proposition 8 just leave the Church alone, this is beginning to become a joke.
Not impressedNov. 13, 2008 5:15 p.m.
So this is protesting?
I could be wrong and this event along with recent protests against the church regarding proposition 8 could be completely unrelated, and I would welcome being proved wrong.
I completely respect the right to assemble given to all Americans. It's a necessary right guaranteed by the constitution. I don't respect people who carry around envelopes full of white powder, presumably harmless, and pass it around to scare people.
Double standardNov. 13, 2008 5:11 p.m.
I highly doubt that had the vote on Proposition 8 gone the other way that any gay headquarters would be threatened, harassed, picketed, and now possibly terrorist attacked. Where are all the 'moral' leaders' outrage now? Where is Jesse Jackson? Where is Obama our new president? Where is the ACLU? I'm sure this helps the gay cause...
Cam in CaliforniaNov. 13, 2008 5:03 p.m.
It would appear that Anti-Prop8 protestors have resorted to using terrorism to attack the LDS Church.
Seattle GuyNov. 13, 2008 5:01 p.m.
These Gays have taken it to a new level....the fact that they are willing to do this shows how nuts they are.
HmmmNov. 13, 2008 5:01 p.m.
Let's see, wonder where this came from...


text:
Tiny GKrellM plugin for reading temperature data from the helium thermometer
at Strahov, Prague, Czech republic. Great for all Prague citizens. Probably
useless for anybody else, sorry folks.
WWW: https://sites.google.com/site/makovick/gkrellm-plugins
make generate-plist
To install the port: cd /usr/ports/misc/gkrellm-helium/ && make install cleanTo add the package: pkg install gkrellm-helium
cd /usr/ports/misc/gkrellm-helium/ && make install clean
pkg install gkrellm-helium
PKGNAME: gkrellm-helium
SHA256 (gkrellm-helium-2.3.1.tgz) = f0ce4244d603c501ea7ae59301a79de3780bf6223ddaaa7cbad2742ff29c7fd2
SIZE (gkrellm-helium-2.3.1.tgz) = 3607
NOTE: FreshPorts displays only information on required and default dependencies. Optional dependencies are not covered.
No options to configure
pkgconfig tar:tgz
Number of commits found: 37
Remove libcurl.so.7 compatibility link that was added in r374303 to
prevent massive PORTREVISION bumps. Bump dependent ports that have not
been bumped since.
Remove ${PORTSDIR}/ from dependencies, categories m, n, o, and p.
With hat: portmgr
Sponsored by: Absolight
Convert a bunch of EXTRACT_SUFX=... into USES=tar:...
Approved by: portmgr (not really, but touches unstaged ports)
misc/gkrellm-helium: Fix for new linkers (-Wl must have an argument)
Part 2 at removing now useless FETCH_ARGS redifition
- Update MASTER_SITES, WWW homepage
- Use new LIB_DEPENDS format
- Support staging
PR: ports/181055
Submitted by: KATO Tsuguru <firstname.lastname@example.com>
Add NO_STAGE all over the place in preparation for the staging support (cat:
Add an explicit dependency on pkgconf
Approved by: portmgr (bapt)
- Update to 7.31.0
- Bump PORTREVISION for ftp/curl shlib change
- Add TEST_DEPENDS
- Convert to new options framework
- Adjust options:
- Add COOKIES
- Add CYASSL, NSS, POLARSSL, THREADED_RESOLVER, TLS_SRP [1]
- Add GSSAPI and SPNEGO [2]
- Remove KERBEROS4
- Rename LIBIDN to IDN
- Remove TRACKMEMORY [1]
- Sort option handler
- Add SLAVEDIRS: ftp/curl-hiphop
- Cosmetic change
- Cleanup Makefile header
- While I'm here, fix typo (PORTREVSION) in x11-wm/ede/Makefile
Changes: http://curl.haxx.se/changes.html
PR: ports/172325 (-exp run), ports/177369 (based on) [1]
Submitted by: Hirohisa Yamaguchi <firstname.lastname@example.com> [1], hrs (via email) [2]
Exp run by: miwi
- Drop all my ports
- update png to 1.5.10
- Fix build with curl 7.24.0: curl/types.h was removed (unused since Apr 2004)
Submitted by: sunpoet (myself)
Tested by: exp-run by linimon
Approved by: linimon (with portmgr hat)
- Get Rid MD5 support
Chase the ftp/curl shlib version bump.
- update to 1.4.1
Reviewed by: exp8 run on pointyhat
Supported by: miwi
- update to jpeg-8
- bump all port that indirectly depends on libjpeg and have not yet been bumped
or updated
Requested by: edwin
Bump the version of the curl shared library after the ftp/curl update
to 7.19.2.
Bump PORTREVISION, even on the ports that do not have a versioned
dependency, since the binaries will most probably still stop working.
Bump portrevision due to upgrade of devel/gettext.
The affected ports are the ones with gettext as a run-dependency
according to ports/INDEX-7 (5007 of them) and the ones with USE_GETTEXT
in Makefile (29 of them).
PR: ports/124340
Submitted by: edwin@
Approved by: portmgr (pav)
- Remove unneeded dependency from gtk12/gtk20 [1]
- Remove USE_XLIB/USE_X_PREFIX/USE_XPM in favor of USE_XORG
- Remove X11BASE support in favor of LOCALBASE or PREFIX
- Use USE_LDCONFIG instead of INSTALLS_SHLIB
- Remove unneeded USE_GCC 3.4+
Thanks to all Helpers:
Dmitry Marakasov, Chess Griffin, beech@, dinoex, rafan, gahr,
ehaupt, nox, itetcu, flz, pav
Tested on: pointyhat
Approved by: portmgr (pav)
- Remove USE_XLIB/USE_X_PREFIX/USE_XPM in favor of USE_XORG
- Bump PORTREVISION
Approved by: portmgr (xorg cleanup)
- Fix fetch and update WWW
Reported by: pointyhat via erwin
- Welcome X.org 7.2 \o/.
- Set X11BASE to ${LOCALBASE} for recent ${OSVERSION}.
- Bump PORTREVISION for ports intalling files in ${X11BASE}.
Update the ftp/curl port to 7.16.0.
Bump PORTREVISION of all dependent ports.
Fix the build errors in the few ports that still use the long deprecated,
and now obsoleted, cURL options.
Thanks to everyone who took the time to look over the patch!
Discussed on: -ports
Remove USE_REINPLACE from ports starting with M
- Add some SHA256s
Bump PORTREVISION to chase the glib20 shared library update.
- Update to 2.3.1
Bump PORTREVISION to chase the glib20 shared lib version change.
Bump PORTREVISIONS for all ports that depend on atk or pango to ease in the
big upgrade.
Chase the glib20 update, and bump all affected ports' PORTREVISIONs.
- Add SIZE
Submitted by: trevor
Use PLIST_FILES (bento-tested, marcus-reviewed).
Bump PORTREVISION on all ports that depend on gettext to aid with upgrading.
(Part 1)
Update maintainer field with my FreeBSD.org address.
Approved by: adamw (mentor)
Unbreak this port on amd64.
Submitted by: maintainer
Noticed by: bento
Prompted by: kris
Not tested on: amd64
Does not break on: i386
Fix stolen from: multimedia/gstreamer-plugins
new port: misc/gkrellm-helium, Prague thermometer
Tiny gkrellm plugin which read data from thermometer at
Strahov, Prague. Probably useless for anyone not interested
in Prague's weather. :) Tested on both stable and current.
PR: ports/51162
Submitted by: Pav Lucistnik <email@example.com>
Servers and bandwidth provided byNew York Internet, SuperNews, and RootBSD
No vulnerabilities have been reported in the past 14 days
* - modified, not new
All vulnerabilities

subset: commoncrawl


text:
How to build backlinks if your website is not sexy
If your business is in an industry that's not 'sexy', you might think that it is impossible to get backlinks to your website. Of course, it is much easier to get backlinks if there are a lot of blogs about your topic. With the right ideas, however, you can get backlinks to your website even if your business or product is rather boring.
Powered by Versicherungsvergleich


text:
Get one-to-one phone support from someone who understands what you're going through and knows what it's like to have cancer affect their life and their loved ones.
It's free and confidential.
Call 13 11 20 (Mon. to Fri. 9am to 5pm, local call costs) and ask about our Cancer Connect program or submit your details online. You'll be linked with a trained volunteer who's had a similar cancer experience to you in terms of cancer type, cancer treatment, age and family circumstances.
All volunteers are trained and supported by our cancer nurses to offer emotional and practical support.
Cancer Connect: Support for people diagnosed with any type of cancer, along with cancer survivors.
Gene Connect: Support for those who have a higher genetic risk of developing cancer.
Family Connect: Support for family and friends of someone with a cancer diagnosis.
Support is available at any stage throughout the cancer experience – at diagnosis, during or after treatment. We can link you with volunteers from across Victoria who have had a wide range of cancer experiences. Call 13 11 20 or submit your details online to connect to any of these services. A selected volunteer will then give you a call at home when it's convenient.
"It was reassuring to talk to someone who has been through a similar experience to mine. It gave me hope and helped me feel less isolated."
Cancer Council Victoria are looking for Cancer Connect Volunteers to provide telephone peer support to the thousands of Victorians living with cancer. Cancer survivors who are between two and five years post treatment and willing to share their cancer experiences with others are invited to register today. Full training and ongoing support will be provided. Our next training will be held in May 2017 over two days.
Email firstname.lastname@example.com or phone 13 11 20 for more details.
Cancer Connect (0.82mb)
Trial Connect
One to one support from someone who's had a similar experience.


text:
The lights are on
Dungeon crawlers now have a specific date to plan their next adventure around. Gauntlet will open its gates this September.
The game will be arriving on PC and Linux on Sept. 3 for $19.99. For a limited time, if you preorder the game on Steam you can get an all-new digital comic from DC Entertainment, called Gauntlet: Darkness Calls.
Take a look at the cover below. It looks like this one's going to be a faithful reboot, so don't worry about the game getting a Gauntlet: Act Zero treatment.
Email the author Jeff Cork, or follow on Twitter, Google+, Facebook, and Game Informer.


text:
Power Outage Hits SF Co-location Center, Web sitesBy Chris Preimesberger | Posted 07-24-2007
The blast and outage occurred at about 1:45 p.m. PDT, and electricity flickered on and off as many as five times in downtown office buildings before power was fully restored at about 4 p.m., a PG&E spokesperson said in an interview on KCBS-Channel 5 news.
The official said the source of the power outage was an underground failure and that authorities were still investigating the cause.
The 365 Main data center, a city-block-size hosting facility that houses servers for a number of major Web sites, was heavily affected by the outage and immediately switched to backup generator power, a company spokesperson told eWEEK. 365 Main's main line brings in 34,000 volts of electricity.
365 Main hosts Craigslist, Cnet.com, Technorati, Typepad, LiveJournal, Yelp, RedEnvelope, SecondLife.com and a portion of Charles Schwab's financial transactions, among other companies. Sun Microsystems also utilizes a portion of 365 Main's facility for its grid utility service.
All of those Web sites went offline for at least a portion of the afternoon due to the outage. eWEEK's offices at Second and Mission streets reported five brief outages within the span of an hour.
Click here to read how the explosion of an 80-year-old underground steam pipe affected life and Internet service in midtown Manhattan.
Ironically, 365 Main issued a press release earlier in the day announcing that it has provided online retailer RedEnvelope with "two years of 100-percent uptime at 365 Main's San Francisco facility ... since moving to 365 Main in July 2005."
Miles Kelly, vice president of marketing at 365 Main, released the following statement to eWEEK just after the outage:
"At 1:45 pm today, there was a major power event in San Francisco that impacted business operations for many San Francisco-based companies. Some customers within the 365 Main facility were temporarily affected by the utility failure. The building is currently 100 percent operational and running on back-up power (generators). 365 Main will continue to operate on back-up generator power until PG&E can confirm that utility power is stable."
Click here to read what Cisco Systems did to resolve a campuswide Wi-Fi outage at Duke University that involved the new Apple iPhone.
Kelly told eWEEK in an interview several months ago that the 365 Main facility has a UPS (uninterruptible power supply), but the outage did bring down a number of Web sites for various lengths of time.
Craigslist's home page ran the following announcement for several hours after the blast: "Craigslist and many other sites are having issues at the colo facility. Please sit tight, and try again later. We are aware of the situation, and the happy Craigslist elves are scurrying to make it better, even now."
Craigslist was back up and running by 8 p.m.
Check out eWEEK.com's for the latest news, views and analysis on servers, switches and networking protocols for the enterprise and small businesses.


text: system 4-50 314 Report post #1 Posted September 28, 2013 I need to connect a Victron Multiplus Inverter/Charger to my batteries. The manual says wire it through a switch and a fuse to the batteries. Their wiring diagrams show it wired straight to the batteries. The unit itself has a large fuse in it so why do I need another one? Is that just to protect the cable between the batteries and the Victron? All 4ft of it? The Victron gives a healthy spark when you connect it to the battery poles, even when switched off, so presumably it contains a capacitor device across its inputs. I don't like the idea of leaving such a thing live when I am off the boat as I've had capacitory things fail before at home. So I should have a switch in the circuit, but then I understand that that would not be a good thing from the charging point of view as every extra resistance is bad news. Finally I have the nasty battery isolator switches with the red fall-off-at-the-most-inconvenient-moment handles and the suppliers leaflet tells you everything except their maximum load. Could an inverter overload it (a general question as I've not given full details)? So, how should I wire it please? And how do you do it (If different!) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites


text:
B&W Shot of pt. 10,437 and Pt. 10.482
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Black and White shot of the view from Camp. Crazy Mountains, 6-8-06.
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text:
Disney's Live-action Cinderella Trailer – First Look [VIDEO]
Disney has released the trailer for the new live-action "Cinderella". Have courage and be kind... check it out!
Disney has released the trailer for the new live-action "Cinderella". Have courage and be kind... check it out!
Here is the official trailer for the upcoming release of the "Town that Dreaded Sundown" reboot... set for release October 16!
Everybody loves movies! But, there is that one movie that you've seen a billion times and every time it comes on...you just have to watch it!
We all know and actually kinda love Godzilla. He's been around forever! I remember watching the Godzilla movies on T.V. as a kid. The new Godzilla movie that opened this past weekend proves we all still love that big scary lizard!
Jana Kramer is a busy, busy girl! Not only is she making a name for herself in country music, but in the acting world too!
Yesterday, the subject came up about movies that make you cry every single time you see it!
Okay, sure, the big movies for the summer so far have been a bit disappointing, but neither "The Lone Ranger" or "Man of Steel" suck so bad that you should want to jab a needle into your genitals.
You have to admit, some of the best kids movies ever could seriously jack a kid up in the head. Here are some of the saddest kids movies ever...
My favorite time of the year is here - FALL. Cooler weather, festivals, fairs, and Movies in the Park. There's nothing quiet like grabbing a blanket folding chair and heading to watch a movie outdoors at Spring Lake Park.
We all love the movies, but sometimes it's tough to find out when and where they're playing!
What's Kickin' in the Country this weekend. Here is your updated list of where to go for live music, check out the new movies and find out about the local events and fundraisers. Now go out and have some fun!
With "Cowboys & Aliens" opening on Friday, IFC.com decided to put together a list of the 10 Least Realistic Cowboy Movies of All Time. "Cowboys & Aliens" clocked in at #7.
This doesn't necessarily mean BAD, just unrealistic. And really, their #1 pic, the 1970 midnight movie classic "El Topo", is a MASTERPIECE of insanity. Anyway, here's the list...


text:
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