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DJ Rap (born Charissa Saverio), perhaps the only electronic artist in the world who holds an orange belt in ninjitsu, has moved from California to Chicago to finish the followup to Learning Curve, her debut album. And when she's not laying down tracks, Rap is spinning on the PlayStation 2 Dual Play tour with Ferry Corsten, starring in a new TV show on Spike TV, putting out tracks on her new breaks label, Inta-Talent, and opening a Chicago branch of Hush Hush, her L.A. club night. She's diversified; she's already huge; now she's trying to go massive.
Andrew Vontz: What did you learn from making Learning Curve?
DJ Rap: You can't make a record in a studio and make a live act. It's a whole different concept when you take it live. It's amazing how synthetic it sounds if you don't use live instruments. If you're making a dance record and don't have live instruments, it will work on the dance floor, but when you're making songs and something that's going to translate live and you don't have guitar, bass and drums when you're making it, it sounds thin. The new album -- I wanted to worry about the production and producers last and make sure I had strong singles and an album I was feeling acoustically, and then we could bring it to life with production. I know this album will work live. The last record was covered with tons of effects, but this time I want the vocals to be more realistic. There's no need to hide. I am who I am, and I'm not worried about my voice anymore. If Britney can do it, I can do it.
DJ Rap
With Ferry Corsten
10 p.m. Thursday, November 13
The Church, 1160 Lincoln Street
$12-$15, 303-832-3528
Since your last album, the electroclash movement has succeeded in creating a scene with an identity and a focus on live performance -- areas where most electronic-music crossover genres usually fail. How has that influenced you?
Anything that evolves and keeps moving is good for music. With electroclash, a lot of people feel the stuff sucks. But even if it does, it's probably going to evolve into something that doesn't pretty soon. The process is hugely important, and I'm all for people experimenting and doing stuff, or you'll never get to anything good.
But is it evolution if people are emulating the fashion and sounds of an era that's twenty years past?
If it makes you feel good to wear leg warmers and glow sticks and chew gum and be Cindy Lauper and you listen to music and it moves you, who cares? It's more important that people are going out.
DJs like Sasha and Oakenfold are having problems crossing over with their albums, while electroclash is succeeding. Why is that?
It's one thing being a cool DJ behind the decks with your cap down, just playing, but to me, that's boring. I don't want to pay to see someone unless their music is so fucking good that I can't hear it anywhere else. A lot of DJs, the excitement is in the records they play, not in the personality. Who cares about looking cool? Getting on the stage and jumping around giving people a good time is what it should be about. DJs who are trying to be artists find it's one thing to play records and another thing translating your soul to a crowd. That's why Fischerspooner is my favorite live act. I don't know many DJs who would have the balls to get up and do that.
People are initially drawn to electronic music because it's focused on an experience and not an artist. But now the pendulum is swinging in the other direction, and DJs literally want to be rock stars. Where do you want to take your career?
Since I was five, I've wanted to be in a band and be touring. The whole DJ thing is just something that happened from my love of music, period. When that came along, it was natural, it was fun -- but it was always, in my mind, a stepping stone to where I wanted to go. Anyone can put songs out; it just depends if they have something to say or not. I might fall on my face, or I might not. It just depends if you say something people can relate to. That's not for the artist to know. If we all knew that, we'd all be making hit records.
You're doing some acting now. How does that fit into the bigger picture for you?
My father was quite a successful actor in Italy, and my mother did four big movies in Singapore. Opportunities are coming to me because I'm a DJ. It's not something I started out to do. Scripts are coming to me, and a lot of them are turned down because they're cheesy rave scripts. I've been offered a part in a new Wes Craven movie, and I've been offered a role that has nothing to do with music or deejaying. It's just trying to find small, interesting things that can stretch me. I also just got a TV show called The Remix; it's the Iron Chef in the music sense.
What's it all about?
It's going to be on Spike TV. They get up-and-coming producers and DJs and give them two songs to remix in a short period of time, and they have to turn it into a hit with basic equipment. The judges are really famous music-industry people and stars. It's credible; it's not cheesy shit.
More important, how has your ninjitsu training impacted the music you're making?
I've been doing it for five years.
Wow. Can you make yourself invisible yet?
That's the art of being a ninja, isn't it? I'm going to tour with the Art of War, a martial-arts group. The whole show is choreographed, and I do all of the music and incorporate some of those skills as well. It's really amazing what these cats can do. It's like watching The Matrix set to dance music. But what I'm really excited about is the club, Hush Hush at the Monday Night Social in L.A. DJs come to the club and play stuff they've never played before. People know they're going to see all the DJs there having a laugh and getting drunk, just having fun. It's where we can let loose and have a lot of fun.
Are you releasing tracks online?
Yeah, on Inta-Talent. I'm feeling passionate about breaks because I'm spinning so much, and it has to do with me doing the club night and wanting to do something different, and I've got radio shows on XM and on Q101 in Chicago. I fell in love with the whole breakbeat thing and started making it. It's something I'm doing for fun, and, as usual, when you do something out of passion, it ends up being a good thing.
There seems to be a lot of genre-blending going on in your work.
I've been doing this since 1988. My first album had songs on it. I've never been about playing one style of music, and that's why I continue to push the envelope. I wear a lot of hats, and I like lots of different music. I don't eat the same thing every day, and it would drive me fucking crazy if I had only one style of music to work with. Boredom is my worst enemy. I start drinking and getting all fucked up, so I need to entertain myself and keep myself busy mentally.
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Are you bored with drum and bass?
Sometimes it's good, sometimes it isn't. It's increasingly hard to maneuver in that scene, what with everybody being so precious about a fucking dub plate, which leads me to be more creative in other areas.
How has that community responded to your new music?
I couldn't give two fucks how people respond. So long as the people I'm playing to respond, I don't give a shit. It's not a scene where people care about each other or get together and try to create something. There are probably five people in that scene that are really great to work with. I work with more people in the house scene than I do with people in my own genre, which probably speaks volumes.

subset: commoncrawl


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How to Boost Your Natural Sunscreen
natural suntan alt="get a natural suntan on the beach" />
Today there is an alert about toxic substances in sunscreen in the local newspaper.
18 sunscreen products were tested and Every Single One of them contained one or more substances that are harmful to the environment. 5 of the products, several with focus on children, contained substances that are illegal as UV-filters.
Does it matter if we use creams that are harmful to the environment?
The toxins are rinsed off us and are accumulated in lakes, drinking water, and later in fish and animals that we eat.
As if that is not enough, consider this:
Do you want to cover your skin with toxic substances?
There is a lot of talk about how important vitamin D is. So we know that we need to be in the sun and we also know that most sunscreens are bad for us, and certified organic sunscreens are really hard to find. But what most people don't know is that there are many natural healthy foods which protect us against sunburn.
- The well known carotenoid beta-carotene protects you skin from sunburn by giving it a darker tint.
- Studies have shown that vitamin E gives us the possibility to stay longer in the sun without sunburn.
- The two yellow carotenoids lutein and zeaxanthin work like a wrinkle cream and makes your skin more elastic and less dry. On top of this it makes you less likely to burn.
- The red cartenoid lycopene also protects your skin against sunburn. A test group was given 40 grams of tomato paste with olive oil for a period of 10 weeks. When their skin was tested on UV radiation it showed that the group taking lycopene become 40% less sunburns than the group taking only olive oil,
- Omega-3 has a double effect on your skin. It raises you skin's natural UV protection and protects you skin against inflammation if you do get too much sun. In other words omega-3 is sunscreen and after sun in one.
So there are many healthy foods that boost your natural sun protection.
Here is the complete list that gives you all the great substances to boost your skins natural sunscreen:
- Carrots
- Fresh vegetables
- Whole grains
- Raw nuts
- Green leafy vegetables
- Tomatoes (both fresh and cooked)
- Oily cold-water fish
With these foods you can enjoy the sun and make sure you get enough vitamin D without worrying about sunburn.
Image by danorbit.
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Patricia Todd
Alabama House passes anti-gay adoption bill despite protest by lesbian lawmakerFriday, March 17, 2017Lesbian Rep. Patricia Todd said she's tired of dealing with institutions that know nothing about her "but make a judgment that I'm a bad person because I am gay."
Anti-gay baby meet bathwater: Alabama wants to abolish marriage licensesWednesday, March 16, 2016The Alabama Senate voted to do away with state-issued marriage licenses after the U.S. Supreme Court ruling that effectively legalized same-sex marriage.
Alabama's only openly gay lawmaker named director of local HRC chapterSaturday, April 18, 2015Democratic state Rep. Patricia Todd of Birmingham was introduced Friday as the new state director of the Human Rights Campaign in Alabama.
Ala. House approves bill allowing judges, ministers to refuse to marry gay couplesThursday, March 12, 2015The bill does not mention same-sex marriage, but says judges, ministers and others don't have to conduct weddings contrary to their religious beliefs.
Ala. lawmaker threatens to out immoral 'hypocrites' over same-sex marriageTuesday, January 27, 2015Alabama's only openly gay lawmaker is threatening to expose state politicians who have extramarital affairs, but claim that same-sex marriage is immoral or bad for children.
Alabama lawmaker to name workplace discrimination bill after Apple CEOThursday, December 4, 2014BIRMINGHAM, Ala. -- Alabama's only openly gay lawmaker plans to name her bill to prohibit anti-LGBT workplace discrimination after Apple CEO Tim Cook. Rep. Patricia Todd (D-Birmingham) said she will introduce "The Tim Cook Economic Development…
Gay Ala. lawmaker angry over passage of anti-gay marriage resolutionWednesday, April 2, 2014MONTGOMERY, Ala. — An Alabama lawmaker has accused her colleagues of using deception to pass a resolution urging an amendment to the U.S. Constitution to ban same-sex marriage.
Freedom to Marry launches $1 million marriage equality campaign in U.S. SouthMonday, February 24, 2014NEW YORK – Freedom to Marry, the advocacy campaign to win marriage equality nationwide, on Monday launched a $1 million multi-state campaign to build majority support for marriage in the South.
Alabama's first openly gay lawmaker marries longtime partnerWednesday, September 25, 2013BIRMINGHAM, Ala. -- Alabama's first openly gay legislator has married her longtime partner at a ceremony in Massachusetts.
Alabama lawmaker pre-files bill to add sexual orientation to anti-bullying policiesMonday, October 24, 2011MONTGOMERY, Ala. -- Alabama's first openly lesbian legislator, state Rep. Patricia Todd, (D-Birmingham), pre-filed legislation last week to expand anti-bullying policies to explicitly prohibit harassment in schools on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity.


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Christopher West under the microscope
It's hard to know where to begin critiquing Christopher West and his version of Pope John Paul II's so-called "theology of the body". It takes a great deal of effort to pin down the errors precisely – more effort than I personally have time for. As with most heresies, the lie is always protected by many layers of truth, and these layers serve to intimidate, and perhaps deceive, many outstanding Catholics who are anxious to defend anything that looks like orthodoxy.
A recently televised interview with Christopher West has put the "theology of the body" (henceforth TOB) in the national spotlight, prompting Dr. Alice von Hildebrand – who with her husband was an intellectual forerunner of TOB – to issue a stinging rebuke to Mr. West for his lack of modesty in presenting the subject. Other, milder crticisms have been posted in the Catholic blogosphere, none of them really getting into the doctrinal, theological, and spiritual problems associated with TOB itself.
Arturo Vasquez, the author of an eclectic blog titled Reditus, is an exception. In an article titled "Theology of the Body as Realized Eschatology", he traces the problem directly to the late pontiff, which suggests that it may be unfair to blame Christopher West for the flaws in TOB, real or perceived.
I haven't read much of JPII's work on this topic. "Love and Responsibility" is thick reading, and it sits on my bookshelf unfinished, collecting dust. I picked it up a few times and just didn't feel like I was getting good mileage out of it. There is really no possibility of this kind of work ever becoming mainstream – nothing wrong with that – so ordinary Catholics must rely upon the distillations offered by Christopher West, Greg Popcak, and other TOB luminaries.
Here's a little sniff test Catholics can use to determine whether some new teaching might be challenged in the orthodoxy department. If the new teaching makes the apostles, doctors and saints of the Church look like misguided fools, then the new teaching probably ought to be questioned. Therefore, when you read something like this …
"According to John Paul II, coming to understand God's plan for sex – and by that I mean coming to understand God's plan for creating us as male and female and calling the two to become 'one flesh' – is essential if we are to understand who God is and what his eternal plan is for us. In other words, it's essential if we are to understand what the Gospel is actually all about – what it promises, how it challenges us, and what it leads us to believe in and hope for both in this life and the next."
… you may conclude that the author, at minimum, is not yet a reliable catechist. The great apostles and evangelists converted millions without the help of TOB – without first explaining "God's plan for sex" in graphic detail to the multitudes. Legions of young saints understood "what the Gospel was actually all about" before learning the first thing about sex.
Everyone agrees that the Christian does need to understand human sexuality correctly. But the more you get into Christopher West's writings, the more you find that understanding, for him, is linked to experience. If Mr. West acknowledges somewhere that one may fully understand "God's plan for sex" apart from actually experiencing the marital embrace [update: in fairness, he does acknowledge this], it is lost in the overall impression of his message.
Furthermore, human sexuality is a reflection of divine love, not the other way around. It would be more accurate to say that one cannot possibly understand "God's plan for sex" until one first understands "what the Gospel is actually about" – until one has experienced the Gospel in his own life.
Marital sexuality is indeed a reflection of divine love, but it is not the only reflection by a long shot. Love has many expressions apart from sexual intimacy – expressions which are, for that matter, much more easily understood. A husband and wife might enjoy the pleasures of the nuptial bed without love, and I'm afraid that many do. But is it possible that St. Francis did not love the lepers he kissed? Is it possible that St. Maximilian Kolbe did not love Franciszek Gajowniczek, for whom he gave his life? Is it possible that St. Maria Goretti did not love her murderer, whom she pardoned and converted by her prayers? No – these are unmistakable as acts of love, perfectly intelligible without any reference whatsoever to "God's plan for sex".
So we have, in the popularization of TOB, a gross exaggeration of the sexual dimension of Christian life. Given the times in which we live I suppose we shouldn't be surprised.
An even larger problem with TOB is that it cuts the ascetical heart out of Catholicism . If the marital embrace is so all-important to understanding the Gospel, then there is little justification for the kind of sexual asceticism practiced by so many saints over the centuries, beginning with the voluntary celibacy of Mary and Joseph, of Saint Peter, of the holy monks and virgins who renounced marriage in imitation of St. Paul, who taught that it was good for a man never to "touch" a woman. Examples could be multiplied. The logical consequence of TOB is a married priesthood and the abolition of celibate religious life. In other words, Protestantism.
There are other errors constantly spread throughout Catholic TOB-land. The idea that the Catholic Church, for 2000 years, taught that the body was evil and sex was sinful until JPII and TOB came along, is one of the more patently offensive of these errors. TOB also seems to be joined at the hip with other problematic movements in the Church, such as NFP-as-birth-control and Attachment Parenting, both of which mitigate powerfully against Catholics having large families.
Having said all of this, I want to acknowledge that Christopher West and his supporters have done some good and valuable work. I have no reason, at this point, to think he is anything but a sincere (and talented) Catholic attempting to promulgate the truth as he knows it, following the lead of a pope he greatly admires. Many people have said they have been helped by his books and lectures, and I believe them. Perhaps the latest controversy will help Mr. West refine and purify his message.
48 Comments »
This sentence made things very clear to me…"human sexuality is a reflection of divine love, not the other way around. "
I wonder what is wrong with Attachment Parenting though. I've raised eight children so far, co-sleeping, on demand nursing, homeschooling etc. It was do-able. The only philosophy I find of theirs that I don't agree with is their ideas about discipline.
Comment by R. Long | May 15, 2009 |
I read Love and Responsibility many years ago before I was married and it has been helpful to me.
But what I undersand West to be talking about is not fundamentaly the theology of Love and Responsibility, but the theology developed by Pope John Paul in a series of Wednesday audiences given in the late 70's and early 80s. they can be found here:
All of the thoughts of John Paul on the issues of marriage and family are of course related, but the "theological revolution" that West speaks of are these speeches. What John Paul essentially does is apply the hermeneutic of 20th century phenomenological thought to the creation accounts in Genesis. It is insightful analysis. It shows that a non-thomistic philosophical analysis of Genesis can be used to reach the same conclusions that Paul VI reached in Humanae Vitae using a more familiar natrual-law analysis.
TOB, then is a new method that reaches old conclusions. What bothers me most about West is his assertion that TOB is revolutionary. I can't see this since the conclusions are unchanged from earlier teaching and the propositional content of moral teaching is unchanged. For the layman especially a change in theological method is really irrelevant to how he lives. We are not theologians.
But even the method is not all that new. I recently read a sermon by St, John Chrysostom on Ephesians 5:22-24 that sounded A LOT like TOB , and it was written in the fourth century. You can read it here:
I agree with a lot of your concerns, but like your earlier commenter, we have had good success with attachment parenting–and we just had our 9th last month.
Comment by ben | May 16, 2009 |
Jeff, I really appreciate what you are saying, and like R. Long, that one sentence does say all that needed to be said. But to say that West's work supports the Catholic Church giving up celibate priesthood is an awfully big leap of logic. I think perhaps you are making a bit of a mountain out a molehill. Part of what West appears to be doing is to show people that the Catholic teachings on sex and marriage are not all about NO, but about YES! Yes to God and yes to each other. Considering that the culture has taught people to use each other for pleasure instead, I still think he has a place. May I humbly suggest you read the Theology of the Body audiences at the link provided by Ben? I really wonder if you might be chomping at the bit a little too much. I know you are a convert and have been in the trenches much of your life, but you surely realize that everyone does not convert in the same way? I have heard people use your reasoning before, that meeting people at their level is not what we should be doing, and that meeting the level of standards the Church teaches is what brought you to the Church. There are many people who say that. But there are others who will come around through the West door, and that's a better place than where they were before.
I guess I am just asking you to keep your judgements sound and logical, and not leap to conclusions that might be unfair. I strongly doubt Mr. West is promoting changes in Church teaching.
God bless you!
Comment by Ann Marie | May 16, 2009 |
I don't know a whole lot about this, but Jeff restrained himself from even mentioning in detail West's remarks about Hugh Hefner. Perhaps we can all agree that those were over-the-top and misguided?
Comment by Lydia | May 16, 2009 |
I think I agree with Mr. Culbreath's statement of the issue. I have not read extensively about the Theology of the Body, but I certainly have heard from others that it is NECESSARY to understand the Faith (which seems like Spirit of Vatican IIism, except it places the beginning of the Church in the '80s rather than the '60s). It seems to me that it is beloved by a certain type of conservative Catholic.
I don't have much of an intellectual argument here, but I can say this: as a young engaged man my fiancee and I have had to do marriage prep classes, some of which used Mr. West's taped lectures, and others of which were certainly infused with TOBish ideas. I have wondered the whole time whether there is much there.
What I mean is that I have a kind of naturally "trad" reaction to it. My great-great-grandparents had twelve children. My great grandparents had seven (they were married late, both aged 30). I think they probably understood the place of sex in their marriages just fine, and yet I can't imagine that they ever talked about it with people besides their spouse (or a priest in confession if they ever sinned in those areas). I believe that the focus on sex among "TOBists" simultaneously over-eroticizes marriage and de-eroticizes sex. It makes sex seem the central point of marriage, and yet makes sex sound relatively unappetizing.
Which I guess is a long way of saying "I don't really get it, but I don't think I like it."
Comment by Daniel A. | May 17, 2009 |
For some reason WordPress isn't letting me copy a sentence from Arturo's comment, but I wanted to paste in the one beginning, "If the text had been a drawn out, concise, and well-organized work…"
I'm laughing wryly, because I am an analytic philosopher, and unfortunately, JPII was what we analytics call a "soft continental." Not as bad as a "hardcore continental," but still, not conducive to clearness and concision, unfortunately.
Comment by Lydia | May 18, 2009 |
I think that Arturo and Daniel make some very good points. TOB does focus far too much on specifically marital issues. However, I don't think this is necessary. West and other practitioners have neglected to appreciate to scope of John Paul's method. Certainly the TOB, has ramifications for a theology of labor, eating, prayer and liturgy, but most of this work has not been done. Most of what we do with our bodies on a daily basis has little to nothing to do with marital relations, but all of it has to do with the theological meaning of being an embodied creature. I think the long term usefulness of TOB will depend on whether or not theologians take up the task of working out the implications this method has for the other elements of embodied life.
On a different topic, I think it is very interesting that so many of those excited about TOB are also excited about NFP. Whereas I can totally see the room for the licety of NFP in the natural law analisis of Paul VI and Pius XI, because their analysis focuses on the integrity of the act, I can't see the same room for NFP under a TOB analysis. When you start talking about fertility being a part of the total gift of self like John Paul does, then NFP seems to be nearly as problematic as contraception. Because isn't it the case that while using NFP the spouses say to each other "you can't have my fertility for the next 2 weeks"? Doesn't that make the gift of self more conditional?
Comment by ben | May 18, 2009 |
A few quick thoughts on the subject:
1) I'd like to echo the others who have used Attachment Parenting (AP) with good success. Our kids have turned out very secure, healthy, disciplined, and well-adjusted. Responding to Jeff's point in #6: If anything, I found AP to be in conflict with the practice of NFP — for the very practical reason that it's nearly impossible to chart the wife's temperature reliably when kids are sleeping in your bed, she's up with them on demand, and her daily rising times vary so widely. I pointed this out to NFP instructors, who admitted that they had the same experience with AP and charting. But we never found ourselves led to limit our family size because AP was too demanding.
2) I strongly suggest you get Love and Responsibility off the shelf and read it. The book is tough, but brilliant (and not nearly his toughest — "The Person and Act" is virtually impossible for a non-scholar to penetrate).
3) I have never read Christopher West, so can't speak to his treatment of TOB, but did read all of JP II's magisterial teachings before getting married in 1995. I had a very good grasp on his trinitarian / covenental vision of marital love, and can honestly say that understanding played a major role in my maintaining fidelity through the difficult early years of marriage. Perseverence would have been much more difficult had I not been familiar with these teachings, and instead had held a "contract" vision of marriage. I found his 1994 "Letter to Families" extremely helpful in this regard.
4) In response to Ben's question at the end of #13: We would only be saying "you can't have my fertility" if we used artificial contraception. What my wife and I are actually saying to each other each month is "for the next 3+ weeks, we love each other and our children so much, we will not engage in an act that, while extremely enjoyable and unitive, would almost certainly lead to a pregnancy devistating to maternal health, quite possibly depriving our children of their mother; instead, we will express our love in other ways and wait patiently until we can physically renew our marital covenant."
Comment by Chris | May 19, 2009 |
The idea that the Catholic Church, for 2000 years, taught that the body was evil and sex was sinful until JPII and TOB came along, is one of the more patently offensive of these errors.
I am a convert to the faith and have been a big fan of Alice von Hildebrand (thank you for linking to her statements), and I admit, also have been a fan of Christopher West. I've heard his talks and read his books. But the above quote of yours summarizes what my growing discomfort has become with Christopher West.
I converted to the Church because I was convinced it is the Church that Christ founded, and that has faithfully preserved the Gospel. You are absolutely right that we need to be extremely cautious of any new teaching that radically departs from what the Church has always taught. Especially in doctrine, but in discipline as well.
All that said, in West's defense, I know that he does not advocate dropping celibate priesthood. In fact, he compares the "total self-giving, life-giving love" of a priest to the love of husband and wife. But I do default to Alice von Hildebrand who cautions that this topic needs to be approached reverently and delicately. I too am concerned with the vulgarity of his presentations more and more.
Comment by Michelle | May 19, 2009 |
Oh, dear, Jeff… if you don't like Christopher West's work, I shudder to think of your response to my upcoming tome, "Theology of Da Booty: A Synthesis of the Teachings of Pope John Paul II and Sir Mix-A-Lot."
Comment by Brendan | May 21, 2009 |
I certainly don't want to pick on one word in your comment, Jeff ("distance"), but I am of the opinion, and you probably are too, that it's unwise for a couple to deliberately plan to live apart from one another for long periods of time. Disasters can happen, of course. The husband might be drafted to fight in a war, for example (God forbid). But I think couples need to think long and hard about deliberately setting up a life in which they are going to live apart for, e.g., many months out of the year. Age and debility usually come to all of us sooner or later, but distance marriages usually don't have to. Unfortunately, it's becoming too common, especially with two-career couples, for people literally to plan a two-household marriage where they meet only occasionally. I always say it sounds like a friendly divorce, right from day one. Ick. (But I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir, here.)
Comment by Lydia | May 21, 2009 |
Jeff – You seem to be focusing on one narrow meaning of the word "renew," the sense of "if I don't renew my magazine subscription, it will expire." Neither I nor TOB advocates use the word in this sense, nor do I think the average reader would interpret it in that sense.
I, and they, mean "renewal" in the sense of: "to make like new, to restore to freshness, vigor, or perfection; to make new spiritually." It is the same sense in which reciting the pledge of allegiance renews my committment to the nation, or reciting the Nicene Creed at Mass renews my committment to the truths of the faith.
Strictly speaking, a couple must consummate its marriage one time. A convert must recite the Creed one time. In both cases, I think it's appropriate to think of each additional repitition of the original act as a "renewal" of that original act of committment — in the sense I described, and not in the sense of the subscription expiring if it doesn't happen.
And for those deprived of the opportunity to so "renew" their marital covenant, whether because of distance or infirmity, TOB does not imply their marriage ceases to be a marriage. Rather, TOB acknowledges that those in such a situation are being deprived of a great good that could otherwise help strengthen their relationship — in the same way that a person who (through no fault of his own) is denied Holy Communion for an extended period is being deprived of a great spiritual good.
Comment by Chris | May 21, 2009 |
So, I've been reading Popcak's Beyond the Birds and the Bees, and I see a heck of a lot of good in there. I guess I'd really take what you say more seriously if you had actually read one book by Popcak and one book by West. It seems like you are getting your info from other people's opinions, which is how people get their opinions on so many things, without looking into them. People learn about Catholicism and "Catholic voting and opinions" on MSNBC for instance. EEYUCK! I can understand how the ABC interview with West would turn people off, but I also think a bunch of you are already looking for ways to condemn these people, instead of listening to why they are saying what they are saying, and to whom. When they are talking about sexuality, they are not just talking about the sexual act, and both authors make that very, very clear. Please read their books, folks, before you spread around condemnation, causing more division amongst good Catholic people. I wouldn't keep replying to this thread if I didn't think it was seriously misleading.
Comment by annaberri | May 21, 2009 |
I agree with you that having a brother chart the sister's cycle is repulsive. Ditto sharing a mother's chart with the kids. And I've heard the same reaction from NFP instructors who are otherwise fans of Popcak. (For the record, my wife and I are not NFP instructors, but we have found Popcak's other writings to be very helpful in our own marriage).
That said, note carefully what Popcak says: he and his wife will be working to determine GOD'S will for their lives as regards to the number of children He wants them to have.
God gave us an intellect so we can know that will and understand the way a woman's fertility functions over the course of a given cycle. And He gave us a free will so we can follow or not follow what God wants for our family. It is the responsibility of the husband and wife, together, to conform their behavior to what God wants from them. The NFP chart is simply a tool that provides the knowledge to guide their behavior and bring it into accord with God's will.
If they determine that, at this time, it would be irresponsible for the wife to be pregnant, the NFP chart tells them which days to abstain from relations. If they determine that God is calling them to attempt a pregnancy, the NFP chart tells them which days provide the best chance for success. Either way, the chart is morally neutral; it simply empowers the couple to act in accord with what God wills.
Comment by Chris | May 22, 2009 |
What Chris said. Thank you, Chris. Keep in mind that Popcak has mentioned that for his wife to get pregnant is possibly for her to put her life in danger because of medical issues. They still practice NFP, when they could have thrown in the towel and went to chemical contraceptives. It IS a very hard, month to month decision for some families, due to the life circumstances that come their way. I know I'd much rather just forget charting and take what comes, but I also know, medically and mentally, that's not healthy for us. That's why the Church has asked us to be prudent as well as open to life. That's not un-Catholic. God's will, not our will, if we read our literature and formed our consciences correctly. As for the brother sister thing, the next sentence up there says, "I also know some families who object to this idea on privacy or modesty grounds." In other words, he's not advocating it, but that worked in a family, somewhere. I don't either, but it's an example, and he's speaking to a variety of people and parenting methods.
Here is a link to what C. West's response was. I am not offended by your comments, I do love a healthy discussion. I just want to make sure you really understand where these people are coming from. Yes, the talk IS immodest. Talking about sex at all is pretty immodest. But not talking about it at all? That is not the way to go. There was NO talk in my house, except "don't do it", and that was not even close to helpful when I got to college, started my period, etc. I wish I'd had some of this material back then.
Here ya go: http://www.tobinstitute.org/page.asp?ContentID=71
Comment by annaberri | May 22, 2009 |
See Steve Skojec's blog site for more info on this brewing issue. Read the entire commentary of David Schindler. If accurate, West is off base. Way off base, from a Catholic perspective. Indeed, I'd argue that his perspective is not Catholic at all, nor that it has much relation to John Paul 2s Encyclical, for John Paul 2 would have never used such immodest language, which, to me, is unnecessary. Then again, many "Catholics" see nothing at all wrong w/Obama speaking at, and receiving an honorary law degree from Notre Dame. Nor with rock music during Mass. Nor with co-habitation during "Marraige Prep"… And so on… The more we allow modernism and it's liberal views into our parishes… the more we will see the dillution and pollution of said parishes.
Comment by james | May 23, 2009 |
>>>It implies that marriage needs to be physically "renewed" by sexual intercourse every so often or else … or else what? What happens to things that are not renewed? If a marriage cannot be "renewed" in this way – whether because of distance, disease, disability, sterilization, age, or other impediments – does it then cease to be a marriage? Does it become grounds for an annulment?
If we don't renew our baptismal vows, does our Baptism expire? I doubt any Catholic ever believed that sort of thing about the Sacrament of Baptism, so why would anyone think that about Matrimony?
In Jesu et Maria,
Comment by Rosemarie | May 23, 2009 |
Might as well weigh in on a few other things discussed here while I'm at it:
1. Re. Chris West: I am very dismayed to hear the stuff he is now teaching alongside JPII's TOB. In the combox on another blog, I expressed my dismay over his characterization of the Song of Songs as the "centerfold" of the Bible. I sure hope he never again uses that irreverent quip and gets back on track in other areas as well.
2. Re. Asceticism -vs- TOB: Many years ago I read a speech of JPII in which he stated quite explicitly that consecrated virginity is superior to marriage. I only wish I remembered where I read that so I could produce the quote here. Suffice to say JPII would never have approved of any attempted presentation of his TOB that exalted marriage above celibacy for the Kingdom.
Also, (I think I made this next point on your former blog a few years ago, Jeff, so forgive me if I'm repeating myself.) Consecrated virginity is superior to the married state because it sacrifices the natural good of marriage for the sake of a higher good – the Kingdom of God. It bears noting that the Church Fathers argued that non-consecrated virginity (like that of the Vestal Virgins) was not more virtuous than Christian marriage. So it is precisely a total consecration to God that exalts virginity above the married state.
Presented correctly, TOB should help people gain a healthy understanding of the goodness of marriage so that they can then appreciate better the greater good in sacrificing it in the service of God. Whether individual TOB popularizers convey this to their listeners is another question.
3. Re. TOB as "necessary" to understand the Faith: I don't think so, but it does help some people, as Jeff pointed out.
4. Re. brothers' charting their sisters' temps: Yuck! No way.
5. Re. immodest discourse: This should always be avoided, and I don't think that it is absolutely necessary for presentation of the TOB. Catholics have been using euphemisms in this area for the longest time: the marital act, sins against purity, self-abuse, etc. As we discussed at a talk I once gave about my book, Catholics should develop a "holy vocabulary" to discuss such matters, one that would not be an occasion of sin for ourselves and for others.
In Jesu et Maria,
Comment by Rosemarie | May 23, 2009 |
Well, a little Googling turned up this quote from JPII's Familiaris Consortio:
"Virginity or celibacy, by liberating the human heart in a unique way, "so as to make it burn with greater love for God and all humanity," bears witness that the Kingdom of God and His justice is that pearl of great price which is preferred to every other value no matter how great, and hence must be sought as the only definitive value. It is for this reason that the Church, throughout her history, has always defended the superiority of this charism to that of marriage, by reason of the wholly singular link which it has with the Kingdom of God." (from Paragraph 16)
I don't think this is the exact one I read long ago; it sounds different. But it does show that JPII did believe that consecrated virginity was superior to marriage.
In Jesu et Maria,
Comment by Rosemarie | May 23, 2009 |
>>>Also – there are some TOB advocates who disagree with the marriage covenant idea, so maybe it doesn't originate with TOB.
In his book _Sex and the Marriage Covenant_, John Kippley states that he developed his "covenant theology of sex" (probably what he now calls "marital covenant theology") back in the 1960's, and that the core statement of that theology is that conjugal relations are "intended by God to be at least implicitly a renewal of the marriage covenant" (p.7). So I don't think that idea originated with TOB at all.
>>>Or that sexual intercourse is to the sacrament of marriage what baptismal vows are to the sacrament of baptism?
It isn't; I just use the example of renewal of ones baptismal vows to show that "renewing" something doesn't necessarily mean that the thing would otherwise expire.
In Jesu et Maria,
Comment by Rosemarie | May 23, 2009 |
Just as a factual question: I had been under the impression that marriages in the "old days" could be annulled by the Catholic Church on grounds of non-consummation. My impression was that this could happen if two young people had been married and, for example, their older guardians regretted the alliance before the marriage had been consummated. The marriage was not annulled on the grounds that it now would be, that they were "too young to truly commit themselves" or something to that effect but rather bluntly on the physical grounds that it hadn't been consummated. If that's right, that would seem to give marital consummation some sort of importance–at least the first time around–to the confirmation and completion of the marriage vows. I'm just curious about this as an historical matter.
Comment by Lydia | May 23, 2009 |
Lydia –
Yes, a marriage can still be disolved for non-consumation. That is one of the automatic grounds for annulment. In fact, the Church teaches that the marital bond is not complete until it has been consumated physically. If I'm not mistaken (and I'm not a canon lawyer), I believe the non-consumation cases are fast-tracked for annulment because they are such a slam dunk.
Which, Jeff, is why I think it is appropriate to speak of "renewing" the covenant each time we perform the sexual act — consummation is as necessary to the sacrament as the vows.
Comment by Chris | May 23, 2009 |
Rosemarie: there is also this:
In the First Letter to the Corinthians (7:38) Saint Paul proclaims the superiority of virginity over marriage, which is a constant teaching of the Church in accordance with the spirit of Christ's words recorded in the Gospel of Matthew (19: 10-12); he does so without in any way obscuring the importance of physical and spiritual motherhood.
Comment by Anonymous | May 24, 2009 |
In the First Letter to the Corinthians (7:38) Saint Paul proclaims the superiority of virginity over marriage, which is a constant teaching of the Church in accordance with the spirit of Christ's words recorded in the Gospel of Matthew (19: 10-12); he does so without in any way obscuring the importance of physical and spiritual motherhood.
Comment by someanonymousguy | May 24, 2009 |
Thank you, Anonymous and someanonymousguy (same person?). That might be the actual quote I had in mind, since I did read Mulieris Dignitatem many years ago.
That's yet more evidence that JPII did not exalt matrimony above consecrated virginity. Any legitimate presentation of his TOB, therefore, would have to make that point.
In Jesu et Maria,
Comment by Rosemarie | May 25, 2009 |
Jeff – You're right. My bad. I should've consulted Canon Law (Can 1141-1142) and been more precise in my previous comment: consummation makes a marriage indissoluvable.
Consummation is thus very important to solidifying the permanancy of the marriage bond, but is not strictly speaking part of the sacrament itself.
Comment by Chris | May 25, 2009 |
These reflections on TOB are the best I have come across. I think it is sad how many people are so longing to see the Church's teachings on marriage and family upheld that they have settled on following Christopher West and are exposed to his distortions and crassness. I am praying that that people start following Christ and not a personality/theology.
Comment by Mary | May 27, 2009 |
TOB has never touted the idea – a rhetorical straw man – that the Church has taught that the body and sex are evil. Cathars, puritains but not the Magisterium. JPII has couched these teachings in terms of personalism and another philosophy I can't remember right now. (a senior moment)
On the other hand, Alice von Hildebrand is no prude. Just modest, albeit in a sophisticated yet humble way.
Comment by Virginia Fisher Murdoch | May 30, 2009 |
JPII has couched these teachings in terms of personalism and another philosophy I can't remember right now.
Are you referring to phenomenology?
Comment by Eoin Suibhne | May 30, 2009 |
I know I'm late to this conversation, but wanted to leave my $0.02 anyways :)
"An even larger problem with TOB is that it cuts the ascetical heart out of Catholicism . . . The logical consequence of TOB is a married priesthood and the abolition of celibate religious life."
I remember quite clearly seeing a video of Christopher West explaining that the value of celibacy lay in sacrifice, and that sacrifice meant giving up something good (sex) for something better. This sounds to me like a great explanation of the value of acetism. I felt like CW was a strong supporter of priestly celibacy, and gained an increased respect for celibate vocations (and so much more!) from Christopher West.
I can see how Christopher West could be seen as over-emphasizing the importance of the marrital act. However, I think context is important here – he seeks to push back the idea that religion has nothing good to say about sex. I think he's done a lot to accomplish this by now, and the result is that his message is now a little out of step.
Ultimately, I think he is doing a great deal of good, and it's hard to tell for sure if he's doing any harm at all. I'm glad he's trying to do the right thing and spreading these teachings, even if he doesn't get them 100%, because the world sure isn't coming anywhere close in what it teaches about sex, and neither are most catechists (want to know what I learned about sexuality from CCD? No, you don't; it'll turn your stomach that this stuff was being taught to teens – and by priests as well as CCD teachers).
Of course, because CW *isn't* getting things right 100% (after all, he's human, and doesn't seem to be getting his teachings from private revelation – so at least minor errors are to be expected) it is good to have some questioning and criticism.
Comment by Ethel | June 10, 2009 |


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ORLANDO, Fla., Aug. 16 (UPI) -- Fifteen men were caught in an Orlando, Fla., undercover sex-predator sting, the Polk County sheriff said.
Deputies arrested the suspects who allegedly went to a home thinking they were about to have sex with children, Orlando television station WFTV reported Monday.
Among those arrested was a coach for a Little League baseball team, the report said.
Many of those arrested had engaged in e-mails, chats and telephone calls with undercover detectives after responding to a Craigslist Internet ad posted by detectives posing as parents "seeking guidance."
"I can tell you it's an absolute shock when they walk up to the door with Skittles and condoms, expecting a 13-year-old girl and her mother, and find sheriff's deputies in a raid vest," said Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd.
The men were charged with traveling to meet a minor for sex or related crimes, WFTV said.


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Hey mnpuzlr, it does look like yo yo fabric. It's kinda cool to hear how others perceive the same piece of art.
it's like little fabric yo yos:) !!


text: Does anyone have these & use them? It looks like a bunch of wavy lines to me. Can the lines be combined to make something? And can you post a picture of a quilt that you used the templates on? I can't seem to find anything on line or you tube that shows what you can do with them ... other than wanting to sell them. Thanks.


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Published on July 28th, 2014 | by Jules Yap1
Slouchy to Mid-Century Mod Armchair!
IKEA items used:
Two IKEA Jennylund armchairs and two white IKEA Jennylund slipcovers.
When our slipcovers started losing their proper fit, (lots of use plus lots of washing), I decided to amp up the style in our living room by reworking our Jennylund chairs! They're not bad looking chairs underneath those slipcovers! I'd been eyeing loads of mid-century modern armchairs for over a year, but wasn't finding anything remotely close to our very small budget. So I took matters into my own hands!
STEP 1: Dying the slipcovers – Originally, I was going to buy two slipcovers from Bemz in Silver Grey, but the total with shipping was still over our budget. So I took my Silver Grey fabric swatch, (Bemz will send you 5 for free), to JoAnns and ended up mixing two different Rit fabric dye colors, (Tan and Pearl Grey), to match my fabric swatch.
STEP 2: Once the slipcovers are dyed, dried and placed back on the chairs, tip the chairs back and remove the legs. Once the legs are off, gently pull the skirt of the slipcover underneath the bottom edge of the chair, and use a staplegun to attach the fabric to the underside. After stapling the fabric all the way around the underside of the chair, use a pair of scissors to remove the excess fabric.
STEP 3: Attach the new legs! I used 8″ legs and coordinating top plates, both found at doitbest.com, (and these legs are even more secure than the original legs the chairs came with).
STEP 4: Enjoy your new mid-century modern armchairs!
Total cost per chair makeover: $30, (cost comes from the legs since my only other supply was fabric dye, which is ~$2 per box)
See more of the Jennylund armchair upgrade.
One Response to Slouchy to Mid-Century Mod Armchair!
What a fabulous idea! I wonder if we could do the same with our ektorp two-seater. I'm going to pin it up and have a look! Thanks for the inspiration and the very useful detail.


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|Daniel Day-Lewis
|Abraham Lincoln
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With the nation embroiled in still another year with the high death count of Civil War, President Abraham Lincoln brings the full measure of his passion, humanity and political skill to what would become his defining legacy: to end the war and permanently abolish slavery through the 13th Amendment. Having great courage, acumen and moral fortitude, Lincoln pushes forward to compel the nation, and those in government who oppose him, to aim toward a greater good for all mankind.


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Heavy rail transit systems have two major challenges, both interrelated:
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TCS' product addresses all those challenges with innovative design concepts that achieve a nearly five-fold improvement in traffic density, along with a dramatic reduction in the cost of buying and maintaining control equipment.


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KUALA LUMPUR: Women's singles shuttler Tee Jing Yi is back in the national team after changing her mind about quitting.
The 22-year-old Jing Yi represented the country at last year's Olympic Games in London but dropped a bombshell by walking out on the national team two weeks ago.
Yesterday, however, she said that she had withdrawn her resignation letter after meeting with the Badminton Association of Malaysia (BAM) president Tan Sri Tengku Mahaleel Tengku Ariff on Monday.
Jing Yi, who went to see the BAM boss in Kelantan, said that a pep talk by Tengku Mahaleel made her change her mind and she now wishes to continue serving the country.
"I was not in a good frame of mind when I decided to leave," said Jing Yi, who submitted the resignation letter on Nov 22.
"At that time, I felt that my game was going nowhere and I could not contribute anymore."
Her frustration is understandable.
Despite being one of the country's top shuttlers under the charge of coach Wong Tat Meng, she struggled to display her 'A' game and her most disappointing outing was a first round defeat in the World Championships in Guangzhou in August.
"Now, I am encouraged and I believe that I can still contribute. The country has invested a lot on me and it is only right that I give back," she said.
Jing Yi, whose place in the SEA Games has gone to Lim Chiew Sien, will now get ready for next season.
"I will focus on getting ready for next season. There are four major events – Uber Cup, World Championships, Commonwealth Games and Asian Games. Firstly, my goal is to try and help the women's team qualify for the Uber Cup Finals although it will be tough."


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Bournemouth Conference Center - (Rip-off Mess): UK Prime Monster Gorgon Brown has been outed in plagiarising his keynote Conference address from the same Clinton/Gore Administration internet spoof site that provided Tony Blair with his 'Dodgy Dossier' of Iraqi intelligence in 2002.
The material has now been sourced to clients of former US strategist and speech writer Bob Scrotum who is currently advising Mr Brown.
Downing Street branded the speech "garbage" and admitted a parody scriptwriter was responsible for the original copy.
The Tories immediately slammed the revelations as "drip-fed pap" before hurriedly excising their own keynote addresses at the Blackpool Conference next week for "borrowed material".
In his conference address Mr Brown told delegates:
"Sometimes people say I am too stupid and too damned Scottish and maybe that's true."
This rang alarm bells for speech analysts who compared it to Al Gore's 2000 Presidential nomination acceptance speech where he told US voters:
"I know I am a tosser, but the alternatives are just too grim to even think about."
And President Clinton's first inaugural speech in 1993 declared:
"There is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by throwing buckets of taxpayers' money at it."
On Tuesday Gorgon Brown admitted in Bournemouth:
"We've pumped £10 billion of taxpayers' dosh into the Northern Rock because if it goes down so do we."
David Cameron is sweating buckets.


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35 Robertson Road Chester Hill 2162 NSW
Hot Seller!!!
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• 1 Bathroom, 1 Spa Bath, 2 Toilets & Roller Shutter Windows.
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• Large Pergola at rear for Entertainment, Lock Up Garage.
• Located in quiet street & Close to School & Public Transport.
• Owners Bought Elsewhere & want it SOLD.
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Real Estate For Sale in Chester Hill, NSW 2162 priced between $670,000 and $1,240,000


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Legal Question in Civil Litigation in Texas
Disclosure / Discovery Period
I am suing my appraisal district and recently received their request for disclosure. It says I have 30 days to respond to their request, asking information such as the name and subject matter of any experts I may retain. Do I have to disclose this information at this time? 30 days isn't a lot of time to have already hired an appraiser. Is it enough to say I will hire an apraiser/expert testimony who will show unequal tax appraisals between my home and comparables? Also, as I am starting this Pro Se, and understand the judicial bias inherent in the process against Pro Se litigants, am I able to also state I will hire representation if this issue can not be satisfactorily resolved prior to trial? Finally, the scheduling order I just received from the District Court, says ''discovery'' in the case will be controlled under Rule 190.3 (level 2) of the Texas Rules of Civil Procedure, and set the trial date for June, 2003. How do I find out how long the discovery period lasts? Does Rule 190.3 explain this? (I am having trouble finding Texas Rules of Civil Proceedure on the net).
THANKS FOR ANY HELP, Kristen
2 Answers from Attorneys
Re: Disclosure / Discovery Period
If you don't have the information, simply state none at this time, but will supplement. Then when you know, you file your supplemental response.
Discovery cutoff, under level 2, is the earlier of (i) 30 days before the date set for trial or (ii) nine months after the earlier of the date for the first oral deposition or the due date of the first response to written discovery.
Re: Disclosure / Discovery Period
Go to www.findlaw.com and find the Texas Rules of Civil Procedure. Read the entire section on "Dicovery", which includes the matters you inquire about,
Related Questions & Answers
What is a summary for judgement We purchased what we thought was our home , and... Asked 11/14/02, 10:41 am in United States Texas General Civil Litigation


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This is like the only thing I drew that wasn't a mega disaster.I take my pics with my dad's phone that's why it's all blurry. Anyways this pic reminds me of a guy I really like.
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Don't Judge a Book by Its Cover
A proverb is a short, traditional saying that speaks of an obvious truth. It is not mandatory, in that a proverb must always be true, nor is it universal to cover every possible situation. We utilize them to express a brief analogy to explain a propensity.
"Locking the barn door after the horse escapes" reminds us that preventative measures are useless after events have unfolded. "Don't cry over spilt milk" tells us to not bother whining about the lost horse. "A stitch in time saves nine" tells us, in the future, to put in preventative measures prior to losing the horse. So does "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."
Of course, because they are not a universal truth, a proverb does not guarantee results. Despite the sayings focusing on prevention, "An apple a day" does not insure keeping the Doctor away. In fact other maxims caution the "Best laid plans of mice and men can go awry." Even locked barn doors.
The Bible also provides us with numerous proverbs. Many contained within one book appropriately entitled "Proverbs." I am informed, though, that this book—this Bible, is unlike any other book in the course of history, due to it being the sole written document with divine involvement.
What, then, is the difference between a normal human proverb, and a proverb that God had a hand in?
One of the quickest contradictions claimed in the entire Bible can be found in Proverbs. First we are informed:
Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Lest you also be like him. Prov. 24:4
Without even taking a breath, the very next statement:
Answer a fool according to his folly, Lest he be wise in his own eyes. Prov. 24:5
If these were commands, we would be left scratching our heads, wondering—do we answer a fool according to his folly or not? But of course they are not commands. No, these are proverbs. Pithy sayings that are not intended to be universal truths, nor universal commands.
(And it is poor use of their meaning to claim a contradiction in this context.)
In fact, we expect proverbs, due to their nature of covering all situations, to conflict. "Many hands make light work" flies in the face of "Too many cooks spoil the soup." Should one be a "rolling stone that gathers no moss" or "still waters that run deep"? When approaching a situation is it "He who hesitates is lost" or "Only fools jump in where angels fear to tread"?
It is therefore not a surprise that even a divinely inspired Proverb would conflict with another.
Which leaves me puzzling as to the difference between a proverb stated by a human, and a proverb stated by a human that is claimed to be touched by God.
Both are not intended to be true all the time. Both are applicable to only certain situations. Both are cute, pithy statements to convey a picture of a fraction of the human experience. Neither is meant to be all-encompassing, always true, always guaranteed.
What makes a stamp of "God-approved" of any real significance? Sure we can be impressed—the fact that one saying is claimed to be from a God, and another is mere human—but if both are of pragmatic equal application, doesn't that lessen the "God Impact"? The fact that God can do no better than humans when it comes to proverbs?
Imagine I showed you two chocolate cake recipes. One from Betty Crocker herself, the other from a guy named "Fred" down the street. At first, one would expect the Crocker recipe to be better—she has the better credentials. But what if the recipes tasted the same? Do we care, at that point, who has the better credentials?
What if someone claimed they had a cake recipe from God? There could be no higher credential! Yet when we make this cake, what if it is as tasty as any other? Would we start to suspect the person is attempting to give the recipe a greater air of legitimacy by claiming it was divine?
Most of the book could be summed up in "Work hard. Don't associate with evil people. Use your common sense." Something humans could figure out on their own. Did we really need divine intervention to recognize that: "A faithful witness does not lie, But a false witness will utter lies."? (Prov. 14:5) I thought that was the definition of a "false witness" !
Don't get me wrong—I like many of the Proverbs. I have always appreciated "Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows, and death, is the man who deceives his neighbor, And says, 'I was only joking!'" (Prov. 26:18-19)
But I like Aesop's fables, and Shakespearean sayings as well. Does not make them divine.
What is the distinguishing mark of a God-given proverb? What makes it any more beneficial than a human one?
For centuries people have continued to accept the human claim that what other humans have said involved God's interaction. Perhaps it is time for them to accept some of their own sayings:
"The simple believes every word, But the prudent considers well his steps." Prov. 14:15.