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We spent Christmas in Budapest. We thought it would be a lovely, magical experience. We stayed in a lovely 5 star hotel.
I am not going to get angry here - as I did on a previous forum!.. Not Fodors by the way.
Our overall impression and experience of the City of Budapest was one of the worst ever. I was especially upset and felt very unsafe from my experience. I came away from the city feeling suspicious and frightened. I was afraid to interact with anyone, because sure enough when I did interact I was met by gruff, cold and unfriendly people and I was constantly afraid that I might in some way be breaking their laws and be fined on the spot, and then the police would come and escort me to jail (which almost happened on Christmas Day as I failed to validate my metro ticket).
Some people may say I am naive and should have done my homework and that all the ticket checkers are doing is just making sure people don't try to ride around for free. It costs about euro 1.20 for the trip I took outside my 5 star hotel to the Szecheny Bath and another euro 1.20 for the return. I was so shocked that the two women (who I thought were beggers by the way and I tried to avoid them as I had not been received well previously when I tried to interact with the locals) zoned in on me and stopped me physically to see my ticket when I was getting off the train at Deak Ferenc Ter. I went to walk away as I thought they were begging. When I realised they wanted my tickets I handed them over and was told that I had to pay a fine on the spot. I still thought they were beggers. I could not believe that the City of Budapest employs people on Christmas day and accosts very obvious looking tourists to make sure they don't take advantage of the City to the tune of a couple of euro. Of course like any normal person I tried to explain that we did not know what to do with our tickets, I thought maybe there might be ticket checkers on the train to collect the tickets. I had no idea you had to validate it before travelling. I had no idea there was no date stamped on the ticket to prove my innocence that I had only just bought the ticket. I had no idea it was an honour type system they have. When I went to walk away I was prevented physically and of course I lost my temper (I am just a very naive person and had no idea what was going on). I wished them both a very merry (expletive) Christmas and tapped her on the arm and was barked back with don't touch me. The police were being called (so they said) and my partner pulled out his wallet to pay them. She then let me walk away and I could honestly see the glint of corrupted greed in her eyes when she saw the money coming out of the wallet. My partner was scared that we would go to jail and had screamed to me that we really don't want to go to jail in a country in eastern europe.....
Unfortunate, bad events happened just a few too many times to be a once-off bad experience - that I was unlucky and that I drew it all upon myself.
On our initial arrival to the airport one of our bags was missing (they were checked in together). Also about 30 other passengers' bags were missing (they all had part of their luggage I noticed). No problem - ok so we go to the desk to do the paperwork, etc. It was a fairly awful scene that unfolded. The girl at the desk started screaming at everyone, she was hyperventilating and crying and was unable to handle the situation. Ok - so again no problem, she was only in her third day on the job and still in training, and her supervisor would come to help her or relieve her for the time being and they might get some other desk people to handle the volume of missing luggage from our flight. No - absolutely no-one came. I could see some other airport workers looking at her like she was some kind of idiot and freak. This was the first impression I had of Budapest - that you are on your own and it is dog eat dog out there - no matter what. And that really is the feeling I grew to feel more and more in Budapest.
Oh and the taxi driver who took us to our lovely 5 star hotel was another story. I was very warm in the taxi (after all our excitement I suppose) and asked him if he could turn down the heat please. Silence. I asked again as maybe he did not hear me and of course he speaks a different language to me. Silence. I'm not sure if I asked again - I was quite surprised that there was not even a bit of body language expression from him to say he may have heard something from his passenger but did not understand. He did not twitch one solitary muscle and we may as well not even have been in his taxi. Again, I found this to be very strange and not very nice or amicable behaviour. So that was one of the times when I tried to engage with some people in Budapest.....
When I went to tell the people at the 5 star hotel about how awful the experience with the ticket checkers was I was again met with a look of - oh well that's the way it is here.
I'm sure there will be many replies to say how stupid I am. So be it. I am glad to be home from Budapest. It was the worst experience of my life.
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Beware Budapest !
We spent Christmas in Budapest. We thought it would be a lovely, magical experience. We stayed in a lovely 5 star hotel.
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What a shame. Budapest is one of my favorite cities for music, dance and good food and am anxious to go back.
On one hand, you are lucky you were able to bribe the ticket checkers, because in other European countries the fine is hefty on the spot and bribing might actually get you arrested. Most countries have a ticket validation requirement before getting on transport.(Just FYI)
Read up next time before you go about public transportation if you plan to use it, or ask at your hotel before you venture out how the public transportation works.
Did your taxi driver speak good English? I didn't find many who did, so your request might have gone in one ear and out the other.
I am glad you are glad you are back. Bad vacations need to be over PRONTO.. just sorry you don't have fonder memories.
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I'm sorry that you had a bad experience, but you should remember what the basis was: you got things wrong.
The ticket-checking on public transport in Budapest is heavy, more so on the metro than on trams and buses, and the most heavily policed point on the metro is Deak Ferenc Ter. The hotel staff reaction of "oh well that's the way it is here" is simply a recognition of truth. The real message that one should take from your post is not that Budapest is bad, but that every visitor to a place needs to find out how things are done there.
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"The glint of corrupted greed in her eyes" -- oh, I like that, but since you were so observant about this sort of detail, how come ticket validation escaped your notice? And if you thought that the tickets of tourists should not be checked on Christmas day, I certainly do not understand why you bothered to buy one.
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So sorry you had a bad time. I generally find Hungarians do not offer much in facial expressions but there you go. I guess one of the things about foreign travel is that things are different there.
I have avoided Budapest for some years now after visiting most of the rest of the country but went there last year and found it very pleasant. Our 4 star (no idea what a 5 star hotel is for except to extract money) sent us a bottle of champagne as it was Mrs Bilbo's birthday all gratis and they wondered why I thanked them.
How did you get on in the baths, I managed to break the system twice and got taken around by the Director to stop it happening again
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For those of us here for entertainment (which I know is wrong, wrong, wrong), these threads are better than Christmas morning.
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Do your research before you go. Saves spoiling what should have been a nice trip.
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...my partner pulled out his wallet to pay them."
I assumed this way payment of the legal fine, not a bribe?
Our three days in Budapest in 2007 left us wanting more.
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hi colduphere - yes this is just an entertainment forum for a bunch of idiots - you and me - absolutely. I expected these responses to be quite honest with you.
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On one hand, you are lucky you were able to bribe the ticket checkers, because in other European countries the fine is hefty on the spot and bribing might actually get you arrested.>
I see no evidence to jump to conclusions that this was a bribe and not the fine - ticket controllers often dress down so as to not be noticed - I see nothing wrong with what the ticket controllers did only what this UGLY American IMO did in this instance and I find her/his attitude with the other ecnounters equally distgurbing and am ashamed if she/he were American because these loutish types who do not even understand simple things like ticket validations and then when explained balk at paying what locals would - well I would hope they would just stay at home.
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On one hand, you are lucky you were able to bribe the ticket checkers, because in other European countries the fine is hefty on the spot and bribing might actually get you arrested.>
I see no evidence to jump to conclusions that this was a bribe and not the fine - ticket controllers often dress down so as to not be noticed - I see nothing wrong with what the ticket controllers did only what this UGLY American IMO did in this instance and I find her/his attitude with the other ecnounters equally distgurbing and am ashamed if she/he were American because these loutish types who do not even understand simple things like ticket validations and then when explained balk at paying what locals would - well I would hope they would just stay at home.
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I hadn't noticed that you posted both in the 6 year old thread and started a new one. Seems to make sense to keep it all in the same (expletive) subject , but to pare down from the other...
I don't know of any country where you don't have to follow the laws if you're a visitor. I certainly can't speed through Ireland or wherever because I can't sort out miles per hour vs KM per hour. I think the cop would laugh himself silly... right until I cursed at him and tried to drive off. I imagine the locals would be pretty pleased if I got what was coming to me for behaving like that.
In all fairness, however, it sounds much like my first experience arriving in Dublin. Missing luggage, inept response to that.... ripped off by an aggressive taxi driver, disinterested service here and there. It happens or can happen anywhere. Part of the experience is what we bring with us, as it is driven by what we're familiar with, including whether or not we're used to having a public transport system, or living around very chatty people, etc. None of which is a reflection on Dublin, of course. Nor is it a reflection of Budapest, IMO.
This all kind of reminds me of a relative who swears the dvd player is stupid because they don't know how it works.
LOL cold. It's gonna be a bright, bright sunshine-y day.
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I am sorry you had such a bad experience and am glad you made it safely home. Yes, you did wrong, and the ticket checkers certainly only did their job. However, the ticket checkers here in Germany do their job, too, and when they catch someone who didn't validate their ticket their reaction is quite different from what you experienced.
I've been in Budapest last year in March, stayed in a 5star, too, and while I've never gotten into such a trouble like you did I must say that almost nothing makes me want to go back. My overall experience with people there was not very pleasant, either. You hardly draw a smile out of them, they're not very welcoming and so on. Btw, I was there on business and got a deeper insight than the usual tourist gets.
Considering the current developments of the political situation in Budapest (and what went on in the recent past) all this doesn't come as a surprise to me.
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However, the ticket checkers here in Germany do their job, too, and when they catch someone who didn't validate their ticket their reaction is quite different from what you experienced.>
Hopefully but if the miscreants reacted like the one above - hauvghty and just walking away would have German controllers been so patient?
folks say the same thing you do about dour Budapesters about East Germans, BTW (even though I have never felt this - others tell me they did).
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lost in translation - bribe or fine - not many people here seem to be able to distinguish between the two - I think I was being fined and we reluctantly paid the fine - but perhaps we were being bribed by corrupt people, who knows, it does in fact seem very difficult to distinguish between the two - and that is a common problem in Hungary.
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but perhaps we were being bribed by corrupt people, who knows, it does in fact seem very difficult to distinguish between the two - and that is a common problem in Hungary.>
in your mind - give some examples to prove just what you said that 'this is a common problem in Hungary' please.
You violated the rules - were caught - refused to pay - tried to walk away... point the finger where it belongs - yes an UGLY American, if you are an American.
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here we go again .... Fodors people - it is time to cut this thread right off now I believe. Thank you.
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Seems you're savvy enough to visit forums after you're bad experience but not savvy enough to have done some basic research before you went. Are you honestly looking for sympathy here? You say you expected many replies saying how stupid you are, you got it in one.
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Better yet, delete it all together. It doesn't add much to the forum except to illustrate why a bit of reading before one travels is a good idea. Which, I assume, Fodors already hopes people do... considering that they sell travel guides.
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One proof of paying a fine is that one is given a receipt. Not the case with a bribe.
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Three of us arrived in Dublin in 1985 on a cycling trip. The first thing a friend did is lock his bike to a street sign outside the hotel. A young kid walking by said, without breaking stride, "I wouldn't do that. It'll be gone in ten minutes."
Sounds like the people in Dublin are friendlier than Budapesters.
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sorry if it really was the fine. I shouldn't have interpreted it that way perhaps.
I didn't feel you were told an amount and then paid that amount . I thought your husband just got out his wallet and gave them some money and the greedy- eyed ones were happy and then left.
I think if it had been a bonafide fine you would have been given a receipt for having paid it.
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Sounds like the people in Dublin are friendlier than Budapesters.
Not only that, colduphere, but in Dublin when they take they bike, they leave a thank you note.
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One proof of paying a fine is that one is given a receipt. Not the case with a bribe.>
seems like these folks may have paid the money and instantly darted off - so again assumptions made could be wrong - the controllers may have been preparing a recepit, etc.
It is hard for me to believe that Budapest would allow controllers to take bribes on public transports - so openly - does not pass the smell test to me at least.
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I would hope not.
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While I take your point that people in Budapest can be difficult to warm to (50 years of communist oppression can do that to a nation) you were the one breaking the law in the first place - by not validating your ticket. And I find it difficult to believe that you were that stupid - in almost every major European city you are expected to validate your ticket in some way before you travel - and I include Dublin in this so don't bother with your "niave Irish" posturing.
"I wished them both a very merry (expletive) Christmas and tapped her on the arm and was barked back with don't touch me."
This is quite simply obnoxious behaviour and you deserve all that happened to you on the tram.
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Have been to Budapet several times and found it a wonderful city. Have found some of hte people to be charming, some a little cool - but none unplesant. But then I don;t commit infractions, have a princessa snit fit when called on it and then start hitting people.
Your screen name is absutely right - you are incredibly naive. And that is not a way for an adult to go through life.
I don't see why it is a shock that tickets are checked - they are checked in most cities. And if stopped (and why NOT on Christmas?) one does not walk away - nor does one lose one's temper - nor does one assault a city employee doing their duty. (Try this in NYC and yuo would have been arrested.) It is more than naive to think that you can "tap" or strike another person with impunity - no matter who they are. Everyplace I know this is considered assault.
If you are going to travel to other places it is your responsibility to
1) learn the rules
2) keep you temper under control
3) if uncertain what to do ask questions - don;t curse at people
4) not commit personal assaults
I'm sure that Budapest is more than happy to see the back of you.
(And I fail to see how your staying at a 5* hotel has anything to do with the matter. And if you were - why not just grab a cab rather than deal with public transit you didn't bother to red about?)
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I have been to Budapest twice, albeit long ago. I did not find the people 'warm' but I found this normal. The first time I went, the Iron Curtain still existed. The second time, it had not been removed for long (McDonald's had not yet arrived). Of course, this is not at all the same as someone who went as recently as 2010, but I have always respected the 'reserve' of certain cultures and tried to abide by their codes. I am sorry to say this, but it sounds like verynaiveirishgirl simply expected the people of Budapest to conform to her own concepts.
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Stereotypic ugly American for sure!
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Thanks so much for the endless mentions of your 5 star hotel. A sense of entitlement maybe? I've never, in all my years of reading travel message boards, read a post by someone who felt it necessary to point out the number of stars with every single mention of the hotel. Kind of speaks volumes.
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first time poster's rant: eee-yawn.
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Maybe the very naive girl is not American but Irish.
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I have been reading a bit about the anti-semitism that is resurfacing in Hungary. Jobbit or some sort of party is now in the Government along with others - Jobbit seems to support Nazism. It seems Hungary will hopefully be soon rid of all foreigners. thanks be to God.
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Agreed. Don't see anything at all that states or even implies she's American.
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I would bet my last Hungarian forint that the OP is a regular poster having a little fun. I mean, the airport story is hilarious. I can hear the poor employee yelling "TURD DAY - YOU FIND BAG"
Too funny.
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I will agree with verynaiveirishgirl that the current Hungarian xenophobia is worrisome -- but it is not tourists that they are being xenophobic about.
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Off topic I saw a local guy arrested by 2 cops in Madrid for fare jumping on suburbian cercanías train so knowing local fare rules & procedures makes trips safer.
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Some of you must be spectacular parents. Your kid has a bad experience, tells you about it and you spend all your energy yelling at them for not knowing better. The world was a much kinder gentler place before we had the internet for frustrated know-it-alls to lash out at others.
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<<realised>> <<honour>> <<behaviour>>
I don't think she is an ugly American... she writes as if she is an ugly European.
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It sounds to me that you got as much out of the trip as you invested in it. = nada, nothing
IF ONE HAD DONE A BARE MODICUM OF RESEARCH on the city, one would have probably noticed that the cautionary advice to make SURE one validated a tram ticket on the tram lest a ticket warden catch you.
P.S. Perhaps you should also avoid Singapore, as it also is somewhat demanding about adherence to local laws and customs, regardless of the number of stars given one's lodging.
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"Some of you must be spectacular parents. Your kid has a bad experience, tells you about it and you spend all your energy yelling at them for not knowing better."
Sorry, but the problem isn't that the OP doesn't know better. The problem is that she is an awfully arrogant person who isn't willing to accept responsibility for her actions even after knowing that she did wrong.
She might not have known then, but now she knows that Budapest metro runs on a honour system. She knows that she needed to validate her ticket. She knows that she broke the law.
Nevertheless she acts as if the people who caught her did something wrong when doing so while she was right to walk away from them, hitting them and using expletives.
And of course the most incredible thing is that she doesn't even consider the idea that the people who demanded a fine were letting them go because her partner paid the fine but because it was a "bribe". You know, whenever you leave civilization, you have to deal with uppity natives, but fortunatley cou can bribe them.
This isn't a question of naivity but of character.
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I can see how when she was approached by non-uniformed women she could think it was a scam. We had a frightening experience on the Prague metro one year.
Two large gruffy looking men were on the train. As soon as the doors closed, they started SHOUTING and everyone quickly started fumbling in their bags and pockets
Oh my Lord... I was convinced we were all being robbed, I think I even said so to my husband.. and told our younger son not to worry, everything would be ok.
I soon realized these "thugs" ( they were very rough looking overweight men) were actually ticket checkers as everyone got out their pass, and we luckily had our tickets to show.
Whew! What a fright. We still laugh about that one.
So, although it may seem odd to some, the situation could have been a bit unnerving when you think about it if these checkers didn't identify themselves.
PS. This poster doesn't sound American to me, either.
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The ticket debacle is a classic sting! The 2 women were posing as officials in order to extort money out of travellers. Did the 2 women produce ID? Were you issued an infringement notice? Unfortunately you and your husband were the victims of an often tried method no doubt in several countries in the world. Thanks for posting to warn other future travellers. Do try and focus on the positives of your trip though and it will make your memories more pleasant
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Budapest is arguably the most divided city (for tourists) that exists in Europe. You either love it or absolutely hate it. You're either recommending it to everyone you meet, or you're making a vain attempt to convince people to NEVER visit.
I've never been, however I'm happy to say from the Hungarians I've met, the "cold" people of Budapest are doing a disservice to the Hungarian people and nation.
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Lincasanova, there are ticket checkers in Paris, too, in plain clothes and rough looking. It is always a big surprise when they suddenly board a bus or the metro and start checking tickets. It is very upsetting for the fraud specialists, who look very carefully for the official uniforms at all times.
Worldinabag, please give us some details about the stings you have experienced.
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lincasanova: "I soon realized these "thugs" ( they were very rough looking overweight men) were actually ticket checkers"
These guys go into trams after midnight and check the tickets of groups of drunk men and fine them if they haven't got one. It helps a lot if you're a rough looking big guy to do the job
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worldinabag, from my experience of several visits, there is a ticket control at Deak Ferenc Ter every few days. I ran into them at least a dozen times and none of the Hungarians seemed to be in anyway suspicious of them but they produced their tickets.
I actually once ran into them without having validated my ticket (I had been using weekly tickets before and simply forgot). I smiled at them and they waved me through. If I had gotten another guy, I'd have paid and I'd have cursed only myself.
By the way, if someone thinks it odd that such ticket checkers don't cut more slack for foreigners, I've met quite a few (normally young) tourists and ex-pats who happily boast how the cheat the honour system in public transport by pretending to be ignorant about the rules. It takes only a few rotten apples and the people just don't give the benefit of doubt anymore.
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It was certainly an eye opener!
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While it may make some feel superior to call the OP names, we've all been first time travelers. I didn't get the impression that the OP was "haughty" at all.
And I agree with lincasanova that it would be difficult to know that the people who approached her worked for the Metro, especially if they weren't in uniforms?
As much as we are warned about thiefs approaching tourists on public transportation, I probably would just keep walking too.
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"As much as we are warned about thiefs approaching tourists on public transportation, I probably would just keep walking too."
Fair enough, but would you complain about the control afterwards when you knew better?
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however I'm happy to say from the Hungarians I've met, the "cold" people of Budapest are doing a disservice to the Hungarian people and nation
Perhaps true. After going around Hungary, city people are less inclined to chat than small town and country people. But in what country is that not true? Paris, London, New York, Bangkok, Buenas Aires... as a generality, city people are always less chatty and more hurried than their country counterparts. Most any non-big city dweller in those example countries would likely agree.
I'm, inclined to agree with colduphere. I'm thinking this poster and this thread is all a wind-up. Just the screen name alone is an invite. Then to announce in the OP that while blaming a whole city for your mistakes, you've already gone down in flames on another internet forum... and never really discuss your topic, just egg it on and do lots of eye rolling at the world. Yeah, that smells a bit of troll droppings. How interacting with someone up to things like that (on a fun hobby site discussing supposed post-trip impressions) compares to raising your children escapes me.
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If ticket checkers are always in uniform, one would be very sure to validate their ticket if the officer were standing there on the platform with you, waiting to board.
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"Sorry, but the problem isn't that the OP doesn't know better. The problem is that she is an awfully arrogant person who isn't willing to accept responsibility for her actions even after knowing that she did wrong."
Absolute load of utter bollocks.
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Troll droppings. Great phrase Clifton. I close my eyes and see them.
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I've had similar experiences.
For example, in 2003 we arrived at the hotel after a harrowing trip with a very grumpy cab-driver, got ripped off on the fare, then waited half an hour at reception up a flight of stairs with no lift only to be told they had overbooked. Their solution was to dump us in a passing cab to their sister hotel a couple of miles away, but they underpaid the driver's pre-payment and he dropped us 200 yards from the new hotel despite our protests and offers to pay more. So I struggled up a cobbled street with the bags to discover that the room in the new hotel was at least a star lower in rating than the other one.
Actually, from that day on the trip to Dublin improved and I've been back to the lovely emerald isle a couple of times since.
I've also visited Budapest and spent hours enjoying wandering around on the overlapping public transport system. After, of course, having a long chat with the staff in my hotel (the Charles) about how the system worked and what the rules were.
I've been to lots of countries and there is only one so bad I'll never go again. It certainly isn't Hungary.
Cheers, Alan
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Don't close your eyes around dropping, cold. I come from farming country and can tell you that's never a good idea.
By the way, if one types "Budapest public transport" in Google, the very first link in English (the 2nd result) explains how buying tickets and the validators work. If this isn't a put on, I can't make sense how someone can find multiple travel forums, sign up and login, type lengthy paragraphs to complain and proceed to interact with what they already knew the responses would be... yet couldn't type three words in the most known search/website and read what was on the first link.
And even if you forgot to read up before you came AND you didn't bother to bring a guide book AND you didn't use the internet at your 5* hotel AND you didn't ask anyone at the lovely hotel AND you didn't read your ticket AND you didn't ask at the station... shouldn't you still have some manners when traveling? You're an adult that wants manners, you show you value manners.
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These are my favorite parts, in addition to mentioning the "5 star hotel" a bunch of times. Yes we get it, you stayed in a 5 star hotel, big deal.
<you are on your own and it is dog eat dog out there>
<I could honestly see the glint of corrupted greed in her eyes>
<screamed to me that we really don't want to go to jail in a country in eastern europe>
<am just a very naive person and had no idea what was going on>
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Try coming to India, you'll love it
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This young lady is just a bad traveler. Not knowing the laws and customs of a country was her downfall.
Read, Read and then read some more.
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I think it is a troll. It's Paris Hilton in disguise - trying to get more points towards her stupid, offensive, rich b***h of the year award. Too bad the ticket checkers didn;t look in her purse for the drugs she was carrying.
Of, if this post is for real - the OP should stick to guided tours so there is someone to keep her out of trouble, apologize when she has cursing fits, and bail her out of jail when she assaults the local law officers.
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Sorry to hear of your bad experiences in Budapest. When I was there thirty years ago, during the old regime, it was very safe and also very cheap for western tourists - I recall that my hotel was of a standard way above what I could afford elsewhere on my European travels. And I've always assumed that the delightful young maid who burst in while I was wallowing in a huge bath tub must have been attracted to my rugged good looks.
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Speaking of naive, I'm amazed at the number of supposedly well traveled posters here who seem to assume these "beggars" were indeed city employees. It's a well known scam for common people to watch tourists not validate tickets and then try to collect money from them. I have little reason to believe that the people who ended up with the money were indeed city employees working for the city. What makes the rest of you so sure they were? Did they show identification? Did they give a receipt for the fine? There is no mention of either.
I'd take the original post as being an example of how many scammers there are in Budapest. And I'd say people who pretend they are not in abundance are more naive than the original poster! Scamming is a simple fact of life there.
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Because my ticket was checked by a plain clothes officer and people who seemed accustomed to riding the line all pulled their tickets out as well. So why assume they're not legit and why put yourself in the situation where it matters when it's so easy not to?
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NeoPatrick. I know the OP didn't do what she was supposed to do. But I really was concerned when I was stopped for rather longer than I thought necessary while he examined my perfectly legitimate ticket.
And of course, it never crossed my mind that they were not legit because that is a very busy metro stop like the one I used was and everyone before me just handed over their tickets.
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I haven't been to Ireland but I've taken plenty of trains, I've never been on one where you don't validate your ticket. Are things that different in Ireland? Hard to believe.
Something is off about the OP and I agree with she's just trying to yank our chains.
Not very entertaining. It was easy to see where the story was going, she put out bad energy and got it back.
I tired easily of the "5 star hotel" bit.
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I only read all this because I went to Budapest a few years back and I am considering returning.
It seems odd to me that so many people found the place unwelcoming - it was just the opposite for me .....
True, the language IS a nightmare, but most of the folks I approached in times of confusion at least tried to help.
Compared with the UK where I live (St Albans, but very often in London) the public transport was unbelievably good and also very cheap. Sadly for the lady who started this, the ticket "valdators" were, I felt, quite obvious and I survived several checks.
I think, the original poster was unlucky !
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"I haven't been to Ireland but I've taken plenty of trains, I've never been on one where you don't validate your ticket. Are things that different in Ireland? Hard to believe. "
You must validate your ticket before or as you board buses and trains in Dublin, but not trams (the tickets are pre-validated and you have 90 minutes to use them from the time you buy them).
Have no sympathy for the original poster at all. Her rude and arrogant behaviour ensured that she got what she deserved.
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"Speaking of naive, I'm amazed at the number of supposedly well traveled posters here who seem to assume these "beggars" were indeed city employees. It's a well known scam for common people to watch tourists not validate tickets and then try to collect money from them."
A little bit difficult to know whether someone validated his ticket at the begin of the ride if the control is at the exit, isn't it?
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The first thing this thread reminded me of, after reading the OP's post but none of the responses, was that long ago thread: Faith Going to Italy/The Amalfi Coast with her Butler (Mario? Maurice?) in tow. That turned out to be a hilarious thread.
But this is a different day and a different age. We've lost our innocence and this thread is more negative and at times nasty than humorous.
Nevertheless, all is not lost:
farrermog "Sorry to hear of your bad experiences in Budapest. When I was there thirty years ago, during the old regime, it was very safe and also very cheap for western tourists - I recall that my hotel was of a standard way above what I could afford elsewhere on my European travels. And I've always assumed that the delightful young maid who burst in while I was wallowing in a huge bath tub must have been attracted to my rugged good looks."
Thanks farrermog!
Is Lindsay Lohan out of jail already?
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What kind of hick town you came then? Budapest is one of the Europe's greatest city (no, I'm not Hungarian, not even close!). If you are afraid of people then maybe you should consider spending your vacation in a basement! I'm tired of tourists like that.
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Interesting to see that this is still here.
When in 955AD the Hungarians invaded for the last time, the Germans fought them in a huge battle at the Lechfeld west of Augsburg. The Hungarian hordes, the menace from the east, all were archers, riding on their horses, fast moving, but only having light armor. . Now this time, the Germans had better shields and armor and the arrows couldn't do much demage, but the Hurgarians come into the range of their swords and were cut into pieces. No mercy was given, noone remained alive.
The Hungarians had no army anymore, they settled and became farmers. As a result they became grumpy and swore that as a revenge for all time, foreigners will have to pay a fee if they want to use their tramway.
And so the story ends.. or maybe not?
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"A little bit difficult to know whether someone validated his ticket at the begin of the ride if the control is at the exit, isn't it?"
Huh? I don't get your point. It's no more difficult for a scammer to detect that than it is for a policeman to detect that. It's a very well known scam in Budapest -- pretending to be an authority and demanding money when you see a tourist fail to validate a ticket.
In any case the OP clearly stated this happened at the end of the ride when getting off.
I don't really want to overly defend the attitude of the OP, but the only thing worse than someone who has a bad attitude about a particular city based on his own experience is someone who insists that everything is pure, sweet, and simple in that city and that corruption or scam couldn't possibly exist in a pretty foreign city because he never experienced any there.
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"I don't really want to overly defend the attitude of the OP, but the only thing worse than someone who has a bad attitude about a particular city based on his own experience is someone who insists that everything is pure, sweet, and simple in that city and that corruption or scam couldn't possibly exist in a pretty foreign city because he never experienced any there."
I don't think that scams couldn't possible exist in Budapest.
But ticket controls are very common in the Budapest Metro with people standing at the exit and checking the tickets. The OP and her partner had no valid ticket and the people let them go only after they paid money.
My interpretation is that the system worked exactly as it's intended to work: The ticket control caught two people without a valid ticket and they were forced to pay a fine on the spot (see http://www.budapest-tourist-guide.com/travel-in-budapest.html ). The fine is 6000 Forint, around 20 Euro.
Everything can be explained by two people just doing their job. Why come up with speculations of corruption and scam?
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easytraveler~ That posters name was 'FaithonHoliday' and yes she was very very funny. Threads a bit like this person's, only with a sense of humor.
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Just a note to those of you who were glad that we got home safely - thank you. I appreciate your concern.
To those of you who think I am a little princess with my 5 star hotel rantings - inside our room in the hotel was about the only safe place in Budapest.
I genuinely hope foreigners and jews, etc., get out of Hungary for their own safety as soon as possible. The xenophobia that exists there is very unsettling. Ugly Americans and Ugly Europeans will be better off getting as far away as possible. It won't surprise me if there is going to be some sort of nazi government running the country soon. It's on the right track at the moment for that to happen - Jobbik, Jobbik. Hungary should never have been allowed to join the EU.
We are planning our next trip - to somewhere in France where I have been before and I can't wait for it - if you like, I can tell you all about it (do you know what sarcasm is? - that is for the camp who don't like my princessness).
We don't have trams or trains in the little hick town that I come from. I use my car every day as my mode of transportation.
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True colours.
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"To those of you who think I am a little princess with my 5 star hotel rantings - inside our room in the hotel was about the only safe place in Budapest.
I genuinely hope foreigners and jews, etc., get out of Hungary for their own safety as soon as possible."
Wow. Well, this Jewish foreigner is very much looking forward to her Budapest days post river cruise next June.
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I'm sure the good citizens of Budapest will be relieved to hear you won't be returning. Better warn the folks in France though.
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I can't really see a scam in checking tickets unless the scam is get money from people with invalid tickets, who are in fact scammers themselves. No harm in that.
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"inside our room in the hotel was about the only safe place in Budapest."
Does your doctor know you travel?
You're right about that suze. Beware France!
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"It won't surprise me if there is going to be some sort of nazi government running the country soon."
For accuracy, you should have written "Arrow Cross" instead of Nazi
It's been interesting to see how long the troll would go, but it does seem time to invoke Godwin's law.
Cheers, Alan
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"I asked again as maybe he did not hear me and of course he speaks a different language to me." - so what did the taxi driver tell you? In a different language.
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I love this. Please go on everybody. But true, the "Nazi" talk means this will end soon. Fot the Nazis, visit Carinthia.
Beautiful place! Unfortunately Haider (the gay guy) is dead.
Comment has been removed by Fodor's moderators
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Yes that does always catch me by surprise. When people in a different country, speak a different language.
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This thread has everything.
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I love it.
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Classic troll maneuver. 24 hours have gone by without attention, better top it up with a taunt and some new info to work with.
Princess? For real drama, it takes a queen.
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Do watch Ahmadinejad on CBS from 2009 now.
Puts the creme on the cake.
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<<Yes that does always catch me by surprise. When people in a different country, speak a different language.>>
Like, say, France...
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Clifton~ Honestly I don't believe this is a "troll". I think this is a sincere post. That's what makes it so hysterically funny.
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Nope! As long as nobody has proof that this is serious, it must be a troll. If it were me, that's how I would make that statement. No "first poster" can match that! I'll post another "Why can't Americans" and I'll get 200 answers per day easily.
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suze, you know... I think it's just that I can't bring myself to believe it's real. Ever the optimist...
Hate when they speak friggin' foreign languages to you when you've been decent enough to use proper English with them TWICE. Classic stuff there.
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Well I hope it IS a troll, because that would be the better of the two possibilities. If this is a real person and their outlook on the world, then THAT is scary stuff.
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My only thought is, some folks should not travel...Americans, at least those with little experience of different cultures, are always amazed ande frustrated when people in other cultures don't see it 'there way'..just gotta g with the flow...lower your expectations and relax..
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The only bad thing that happened to us in Hungary, was the Hungarian Goulosh we were served, pretty tasty except for the fact that mine had a huge sliver of broken glass in it. When I sucked it out of my mouth, (no harm done, thankfully) and shoed it to the waiter, he just shrugged.!!! didn't even get a new plate of stew....Yoo whoo...poor me...
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Clara, if you carefully read the OP screen name I think you will find that she is Irish, not an American.
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Suze: thanks for coming up with the correct name. My memory ain't what it used to be.
Did the OP mention what kind of currency was used to pay off the scam? Was it US dollars or those pesky foreign forints? That might give a clue as to the true identity of those scammers.
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The OP is probably not an American--the clue is in the spelling of a couple of words including "honour."
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That's another big problem, not only do they speak a different language, they have different money too!
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easytraveler~ That screen name always stuck in my mind because I thought it was such a clever one... Faith On Holiday!
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the OP also gave a clue as to her native country with her sign on name: "very naive irish girl"
Probably lives in Brazil.
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suze, there were some really funny threads.
There was the one about tipping the airline pilots.
And the other one about the woman who took her shoes off during flight and, when it came time to disembark, she couldn't find one shoe.
And many more.
Always brings a smile to my face when I recall all that wonderful humor (humour).
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don't forget do they have lifejackets in gondolas in venice
BillynBettyJones was another very funny poster.
again difference between Faith (and her cousin and italian lover) and BillnBetty... and Scaredirishgirl... is the first two were very very funny.
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oh, and how about 'can i wear leather pants on the airplane?'. i think that was muffy or muffin. another old-time funny one.
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Well I hope it IS a troll, because that would be the better of the two possibilities. If this is a real person and their outlook on the world, then THAT is scary stuff.<<<
Yikes, that doesnt say much for anyone that has read the Fodorite Forum
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Oh, I missed the "can i wear leather pants on the airplane?" one but do remember muffin and BillynBettyJones.
And Elvira's classics on traveling in Venice.
Guess that's one of the main reasons some of us keep coming back to Fodors - it's the humor, often goofy but never harmful.
Remember banding?
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I actually think this could be for real, and I can understand going to a country and being naive. Some years ago my DH and I made our first trip to Prague. We had a great time but I can't say that they were the most friendly kids on the block. The morning of our departure, we arranged for car service to the airport, this burly looking man in a mercedes came to pick us up on the cold and foggy morning in December. He took a different route than I remembered the taxi bringing us to the hotel had taken, the farther we went the more nervous I became, I casually asked the driver if there were more than one airport in Prague, not sure he understood me because I certainly didn't understand him. At that time I found out that we had no phone service....my husband kept telling me just to relax that everything was fine, and of course it was.....there with a relief was the airport, we got out of the car and my DH turned to me and said, yes you thought we were going to be taken out in a field and shot....I think that any traveler in any city in the world can get anxious about something or someone, experience is the best teacher. I can venture to say that VNIG will not forget to validate her ticket on the next adventure. And I am now more trusting of taxi drivers.
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I'm positive it's "real".
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This is too good not to top it.
Serious question, now.
Whwere does the Oridginal Poster come from.
Original Poster, Naive Irish Girl, please advise.
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I just always assumed from the screen name she lived in Ireland. Anyone else wouldn't really be "Irish", IMO, they'd be whatever nationality they were born as.
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By the way, it was BillynBetty and their insightful questions that have helped my avoid pesky Vikings throughout my various trips. Thanks BnB!
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A Scottish friend of mine was eating in a restaurant in Budapest near a river.
Suddenly an American female voice rang out, "A rat!"
"Don't worry,madam, that is a tame rat. Her name is Mitzi", said a quick thinking waiter.
"Oh, hi Mitzi", cooed the American tourist.
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And, the answer is in..... drumroll, please....
She's from Ireland!
<<verynaiveirishgirl on Jan 4, 11 at 02:56 PM
coming to Ireland just to visit Dublin is a pity. Ireland has beautiful scenery. Try to visit Kenmare and Dingle in Kerry if you can. It is quite beautiful there ...>>
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If she/he/it really is a troll then more likely the home is nowhere near Eire. Just a play on an Irish joke. Watch out for prettyblondirishgirl in the next post...
But I agree that travellers to the Emerald Isle need to get out in the countryside. Just watch out for those L plate drivers who have been driving unlicenced for forty years. It's more dangerous to drive there than even Poland Or has that changed?
Cheers, Alan
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Listen honey, a lot of us in Germany and Scandinavia think that Ireland should not have been let in the EU or eurozone...
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Listen honey, a lot of us in Germany and Scandinavia think that Ireland should not have been let in the EU or eurozone... Considering also irish recent history with IRA i would also a bit careful before labeling other countries...
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AVOID BUDAPEST. We had the worst travel experience the day after xmas traveling the metro. After showing the non English speaking metro ticketing agent our family and indicating where we wanted to go and return to, we were issued a family ticket which we validated and rode on the metro. Upon reaching our destination, a ticket control agent asked to see the ticket, which we produced, detained us for 45 minutes questioning us (I had six children with me) and claimed it was a fare violation and demanded $60USD to be paid to her on the spot. We saw that they targeted other tourists, at least three others, not locals, and also fined them even though they had tickets. We stated that the ticket was sold to use by the Metro agent and that we were not avoiding the fare, which was only a couple of Euros, the control agent looked me up and down as if to assess my clothing and affluence and stated that if she had to work on Xmas then she was going to assess fines and "make money". We only had one day in Budapest and we were harassed forced leave without seeing anything. We will never go back and we strongly advise everyone to avoid this city. They treat tourists like criminals and have a scam set up to rip off tourists and hold them up for cash.
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Another first-timer rant............SNORE.............
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And why would you expect the metro ticketing agent to speak English? Do they speak Hungarian in New York?
It's up to you to understand the rules and buy the ticket you need. And you may have met a grumpy agent who didn;t want to work on Christmas - but that doesn't mean you don;t owe the fine.
Being a reasonable tourist means understanding the basic rules of where you are going - or bringing an electronic translator with you - or writing down the info - or asking in your hotel - or asking someone.
Everyone can make a mistake. But it's no reason to make a mountain out of a molehill.
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Seems to me that verynaiveirishgirl is back under a new screen name!
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This really is class trolling. Bravo!
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From the Budapest Tourist Guide website: Family ticket (családi jegy): 2200 HUF: valid on all public transport lines for 1-2 adults and 1-7 children under the age of 14 for 48 hours starting from the time and date indicated on the ticket.
How many of you have travelled with 6 children under the age of 14??? Troll alert!
And, her new name, aprettyamerican... is that a take on the "ugly american"?
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Well, I will add my two cents for anyone who is really thinking of going to Budapest, and may be disuaded by this thread. I went for the first time this past summer (after numerous trips to Europe), and Budapest shot to the top of my list of European loves.
I actually got seperated from my family for my first day due to flight cancelations, and I wandered Budapest alone that day. I was hesitant to wander in the beginning as a woman alone; yet, the beautiful weather would not allow me to stay locked up in my hotel. I felt very safe, people were helpful (and downright friendly). I loved Budapest, and it would be shame if anyone skipped it due to a couple of minor negative experiences. I, personally, cannot wait to return.
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Oh now. First the 24 hour fester. Now the sock puppet account. Making up new name to support and substantiate post is yet another classic move. We're working straight out of the troll handbook now.
New name gets the focus off the conversation about her formerly stated nationality.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-an-internet-troll.htm (the playbook)
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Joannyc; You are correct, that is the ticket we were issued by the ticketing agent. We did validate it. The control agent did insist on us paying a $60 USD fine on the spot. Please note, that the one of the control agents originally demanded $120 USD, but her associate said that she was incorrect and that it should only be $60. We still do not know why we were fined at all, except that the agent said she had make money because she was working on xmas. I am not "verynaiveirishgirl"; I found her post after searching "Budapest Metro Corruption" to see if anyone had had a similar unfortunate experience. It appeared to e that she ran into the same scam that my family and I had to contend with. Apparently, Budapest Metro has been rife with scams from the highest level of their administration on down to the control agents, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BKV. This particular scam targets tourists and will have a chilling effect on travel to Budapest. It was especially heinous that it occurred on the xmas holiday. The ticketing is confusing and not translated for foreigners, the tickets and the prices were not posted, and there is no way to contest an unfair/unjust fine; a visitor using the Metro is forced to pay whatever the control agent demands immediately, even when the ticket was purchsed in good faith from a metro ticketing officer. Travelers to Budapest should beware.
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Oh, right. They asked for payment of the fine in dollars? Try explaining that.
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The agent said we could pay in florint or USD. We were only there for the one day and only had dollars. Many of the vendors take dollars and other foreign currency.
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Is it on this thread or another thread where someone suggested that if one were asked to pay a fine, then the best thing to do is to ask the police real/fake to go to the police station with you, where you will gladly pay the fine?
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aprettyamerican, you omitted blond from your nick
Cheers, Alan
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I remember fondly the post with the four divas in Italy. That was a riot. Babs?
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Well, I don't know what the truth or not of these postings are, but if nothing else, it is fair to say that "The ticketing is confusing and not translated for foreigners"
This is probably true for someone regardless of what foreign transit system one faces for the first time. It's something that anyone can take away as a precautionary tale. Me, coming at the time of our trip from a little town, near a city that itself has no no real public transport, I didn't find the Budapest system, buying or validating, particularly confusing. But some might, I suppose. I've since been on a to of systems I thought were more confusing. But maybe that's in the eye of the beholder.
It is also a good idea, I feel, that if one thinks they're being shaken down by a real or fake authority, to insist on handling the remainder of the dealings in a police station and/or in front of a higher level officer. This comes up more often in the developing world (of which Hungary doesn't even remotely come close) If it's a faker, they'll bolt. They were counting on you wanting to avoid the "trouble" as much as they do. If it's an actual cop, they're aren't doing it officially. Not unless you're touring war time Congo or something. They don't want to explain this to the boss and will likely "let you off" on the spot. Or, you go to the station, find out what you did wrong, pay your fine and learn from it.
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I still like the statement that she was traveling with 6 children under the age of 14!
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Again, from the Budapest Tourist Guide: Fines are high (if caught travelling without a valid ticket or pass you have to pay 6000 HUF fine on the spot) and it's not worth ruining your stay with constant watching out for the inspectors. If you forgot to buy a ticket or validate it and you're fined the ticket inspector must give you a receipt about the payment.
Let's see a link to your scanned receipt. And, as StCirq, says... paid in USD??? The fine is 6000 HUF.
Were the ticket checkers wearing arm bands?
So long and thanks for playing, aprettyamerican/verynaiveirishgirl!
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We have had no problems using the Paris Metro or even the Tokyo Metro and do not speak French or Japanese. No signs were in English in the Tokyo metro, which was fully automated, state of the art, and accessible to all. The Budapest Metro scam that I describe really is corrupt, designed to target tourists, and is carried out under the auspices of the official Budapest Metro authority.
Clfton, we were abused by the actual Metro authority; we had no confidence that local police would be any better, nor did we know where the local police were. We were detained for 45 minutes and were late as it was. We were actually afraid that we would be arrested, even though we had purchased Metro tickets and paid the fine. Sadly, "Beware Budapest" is completely accurate.
This appeared on
"Having a ticket doesn't entitle you to ride public transportation. You must validate your ticket at a ticket-punching machine when starting your trip. Transfer tickets must be validated twice. First, when entering the system and also at the point of transfer, using either ends of the ticket. Hungarians may understand the way the ticket system works; however, it's still the source of the majority of complaints received from tourists. They buy their tickets in good faith but forget to validate them and have to pay a substantial fine when caught. It's an awful system by design, as you are able to enter/use all public transport without validating your ticket, until an undercover controller stops you. All forms of public transportation are frequented by controllers, so you are bound to run into one sooner or later, and they are not very pleasant to deal with.
Budapest shouldn't be remembered for such an experience. After filming in the city, Warren Beatty was asked by Jay Leno on the Tonight Show what he had thought of Budapest. Unfortunately, the first thing that came to his mind was being fined on the metro for forgetting to validate his ticket."
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joannyc, I do not remember if they were wearing arm bands. They wore some kind of bluish quasi uniform. They did look kind of like bums. They were two older women, one with red streaked hair, the other was stocky with short brown/grey hair; and we saw another control male officer going after other tourists. They targeted tourists, not locals. They did not stop everyone; only tourists.
They did give some kind of orange colored receipt. I can understand fining someone $60 for not having a ticket, but we had purchased a ticket in good faith that was sold to us for our needs by a metro ticketing agent at their window in the metro. We were set up.
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We were lucky they accepted USD. Otherwise we might have gone to jail for nonpayment of the fine.
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LOL. German tourists validate their tickets and German tourists call 112 on their cellphone if they think they're being scamed. And they don't go to jail for nonpayment but use their debit cards if they don have any forint.
As if anybody would go to jail for this.
They must be incredibly smart those German tourists.
How many replys? Waiting for the next one.
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I read somewhere else - tripadvisor maybe about the American with the six children. I can totally understand how shocked you were and I just hope you got home safely.
The metro workers did indeed target me. I am convinced of it. When we tried to explain to them that we were staying for a few days at the Kempinski Hotel, a mere 50 yards from the station and that we were returning from Szechenyi bath and that we were tourists and did not not know what to do with our tickets that we had only bought a couple of hours ago on the other side of the train - they were even more insistent on us paying the fine. It did seem that they were very interested in the fact that we were tourists.
It really is a scam. I suppose the metro is run by the government? I really don't know. If it is then it is corruption on a very large scale.
I was absolutely appalled that the controllers were treating us in this way - they looked like beggars and they were very robust, fairly unattractive types. The fact that they said very quickly in the "conversation" that they were calling the police is big time scary. We were immediately made to feel like criminals. After the event when I looked at a policeman on the street all I could think of was that the police are only too willing to scam tourists also. That is not a nice society in my view to be in.
Budapest has St. Stephen's Basilica, The Castle District, the Danube Symphony Orchestra, Szechenyi Bath, etc., etc., and all are beautiful, but they are absolutely useless to tourists when they are unfortunately encased in the corrupt society of Budapest. That is what I remember of Budapest - the event on the tram. If this is what the government wants visitors to remember the city by then so be it. They are driving people away. I will definitely never and i mean NEVER return there. The people who lose here are the people of Budapest because we did actually spend a lot of money while we were there (not scammed by the way but money we wanted to spend), and then you have the idiots who work for the corrupt government/tram company and zone in on us to say we may go to jail. Just lovely.
I will in fact continue to post my experience of Budapest elsewhere also on the net. At the beginning when we returned after Christmas I was still very angry - I have now calmed down and I have come to know how these threads work - no bad language, etc.,
I am not the pretty american I am the very naive irish girl who lives in Ireland
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naive, you forgot to mention that the Kempinski is a 5 star hotel.
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Aw bless now they're talking to each other. Pass the popcorn. I've used this on another thread but it's apt.
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I wonder how they managed to accommodate the six children in the "lovely five star hotel". Did they get an extra large family room. I remember somebody on this forum asking if it was possible to smuggle children into their parents' room.
No doubt they could feed them all by filling their ziplock bags at breakfast.
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As their children still are pretty young, I suppose they laid them across the width of the bed. You can easily accomodate 3 to 4 smallish children per queen-size bed that way.
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Only 3 to 4?
Nonsense. If you had them head to feet like sardines, you could get at least 12 in.
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good for all you guys who think it is great fun to make fun of people who have very distressing experiences on the Metro system in Budapest. God help your children cause you also seem to make fun of ugly people !
I have in fact written to the Irish Ambassador in Budapest to see if they can do something about changing the system where you are just unable to travel or gain access at least to the train until you first put the ticket in a machine to validate it. I have asked him to help the people of Budapest to help tourists, and that might actually help get rid of the very obvious xenophobia that exists as a result of this.
The reply ………"As I am sure you will appreciate, foreign Embassies based in Hungary have no real influence on the manner in which public infrastructure operates in Budapest. However, I have asked a member of the Embassy's staff to raise the issues that you set out, and in particular the behaviour of metro personnel, at the next meeting of EU Consuls in Budapest. The EU Consuls' network has in the past proven to be a useful forum through which Embassies can communicate their concerns to the Hungarian authorities."…..
It seems that the travel system is set up by the government for the ticket collectors to abuse tourists. There are just too many similar stories of not validating the ticket and getting a fine. It seems to be a fantastic way of making a real good living for the BKV or whatever it is called ...
It was probably THE most distressing event of my life – some forum readers will laugh that poor me I have lived a sheltered little life in Ireland !
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Oh dear. What have I let myself in for. I should stop right now, yet I can't resist. I'll have to go to a Posters Anon meeting and declare "My name is Peter, and I haven't posted a dumb response for two weeks".
But I'm about to get off the posting wagon.
I'm about to sin.
Your typical transit cop won't hold an advanced degree in European languages. In Australia, they speak a decent, if monosyllabic, kind of English.
Show me ticket.
You got no ticket?
You in trouble.
You in deep trouble.
Show me ID.
You gotta pay fine.
First offence?
I imagine that your average Budapest inspector is similar, in both language skills and tact. Ditto for Boston, Birmingham, Brisbane.
However, inspectors do hold advanced qualifications in Commuter Profiling, so they specialise in checking the tickets, or non-existent tickets, of people who do not hold said tickets. So the tradesman on the Venetian ferry with his trolley of tools, the man in the suit on the bus with copy of the Times, the regular commuters, the priest, the cop, the nun, they don't get checked because they probably have tickets. The indigents, the students, the tourists, they get checked because they are less likely to have tickets. No point wasting time on checking on people that do have tickets – better to target the ones who don't.
Most people who visit a country think that it's a really really good idea to know how things work, and most people travel to experience things that are a bit different from home. Ticket systems are different in many places, languages vary from country to country, and even money is different. You can't buy a ticket in Melbourne using euro, even though it's lovely money. A bag of trade beads, some plug tobacco and a tomahawk will get you places in the New Guinea highlands, but sadly will not cut it in New York. Amex may be fine in Amsterdam, but in the Amazon it is not widely accepted. In Budapest, even if you are there for only a day, a handful of the local coconuts or cash is a good idea.
Ways of dealing with fare evasion are one of the delightful differences when travelling. In Melbourne, you will be escorted off the public conveyance, undergo the above detailed inquisition, and a little physical violence may be offered, gratis. Your fine will come in the mail.
Some places just do it on the spot. In Italy, travel by train sans ticket, and you will be held on the train while the matter is addressed. This may allow the miscreant to view some hundreds of kilometres of countryside that they had no intention of travelling to, and the fine will be paid on the spot. Ferries in Venice – no ticket or not validated - about 50 euro on the spot.
Budapest? Well, we all know now what happens in Budapest, and claiming residence in a five star hostel seems not to be of great assistance.
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Peter whatever - best thing you have said - and while your at it sign up for idiots anon too please.
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<It seems that the travel system is set up by the government for the ticket collectors to abuse tourists.>
I kind of doubt that.
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I bet the Irish ambassador to the Hungarian republic is still rolling on the floor dominated by uncontrollable mirth.
"Naive" must be an invaluable relief for this excellent official of the destitute emerald republic, as there isn't much to laugh about in other ways....
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After you bought the ticket ,how did you have to validate the ticket.?
I have been to Europe many time but have never rode the subway or Tram (Oh yes I did in London).
I am thinking you just buy a ticket and hop on the Tram.
What else is required.?
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I bet the Irish ambassador to the Hungarian republic ist still roling on the floor shaken by spasm of uncontrollable mirth.
"Naive" must be an immense source of glee and relief to that worthy official of the destitute emerald republic, as he can't have too many subjects to laugh about...
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Trolladonna returns.
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"I have asked him to help the people of Budapest to help tourists, and that might actually help get rid of the very obvious xenophobia that exists as a result of this."
My goodness! What is the poor guy to do? Drive you to your shrink's office. Your xenophobia is yours. Good luck with that. Btw, America is a horrible place, rife with thieves, bad taxi drivers and other underlings who don't respond to requests from imperious customers.
I'm just saying, stick to France.
Good for you for providing such entertainment. Where's that ugly people thread?
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Percy: After we bought the ticket we went straight to the platform and the train was there in front of us. I could not see any machine to put the ticket into to validate it. In fact we returned to the ticket agent before boarding the train to ask her what platform we needed to be on for the Szechenyi Bath (we were in Deak Ferenc Ter).
Like I said, if there was some barrier there in front of us that was clearly marked with a place for the ticket then we would have figured that out most likely (no laughs please!). We were just able to board the train and in fact when on the train I wondered what I was supposed to do with the ticket and thought that a ticket checker would come round to collect our tickets.
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You know what verynaiveirishgirl, I would have probaly done the same thing you did.
I would have bought a ticket ,boared the train(Tram) ,sat down and still had my ticket.
That is the way it is here in my city, you buy a ticket and get on.... if a ticket agent comes to ask you to show the ticket ,you show your ticket and the agent leaves.
I would have done the same thing in Budapest.
Thanks for your explanation.
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Percy: just out of curiosity and I don't want details but which country are you in?
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Loving this post!
I dont think this sort of thing is country specific - I think its transit system specific. In London most tube stops (if not all) have barriers, but many overground trains, and most of the DLR dont, you have to tap in and tap out to validate your ticket.
Good rule of thumb - if your ticket is time/date stamped (i.e. it is for a specific train and /or seat) you dont have to validate it. If it is the type where you can buy a bunch of tickets and ride whenever you like on whatever train you want in whatever seat then you have to validate to prevent the ticket from being used for more than 1 journey. This 2nd type usually is the local transit (including buses) process if there are no barriers to cross to get in.
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Oh meant to add - putting in barriers is not as simple as just putting them in at the request of a tourist or even mass tourists. It's a major infrastructure change costing millions for technology and equipment - not even including the labour issues (i.e. how do you appease the likely unionized ticket checkers for losing their jobs) so its a HUGE undertaking!
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Hungary is really so sad, almost tragic. Since the decline of the Hapsburg rule, and the separation of the Empire into its two parts, Austria and Hungary, things have never been the same.
The horse drawn trams in Budapest were so picturesque, providing in addition valuable fertilizer for vegetable gardens. Capsicums have never been the same.
Sad, so sad.
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>The horse drawn trams in Budapest were so picturesque, providing in addition valuable fertilizer for vegetable gardens.<
Even those trams had validation. They used small orphans who'd nibble the ticket in the precise coded pattern for that day. Efficient and kept the orphans fed. Damn clever those Magyars.
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>The horse drawn trams in Budapest were so picturesque, providing in addition valuable fertilizer for vegetable gardens.<
Even those trams had validation. They used small orphans who'd nibble the ticket in the precise coded pattern for that day. Efficient and kept the orphans fed. Damn clever those Magyars.
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I'm still looking forward to our trip to Budapest next June. Perhaps we will walk .
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Peter_S_Aus: "In Budapest, even if you are there for only a day, a handful of the local coconuts or cash is a good idea."
You need coconuts for travel in Budapest? Why don't the guide books give people key information like this? And how does one tell a local coconut from a foreign coconut? Does the local coconut speak only Magyar?
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Coconuts are local to Hungary? Perhaps they are migratory? Or do we have to have a conversation on wingspan to weight ratios again?
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Well, I'm kind of sitting on the fence on this one.
One moment I think she's genuine, and the next moment I think she's not.
Certainly, people target tourists and others who are not regulars.
Some workers in transportation, such as those in airlines, can afford to be rude at times because they know the likelihood of their ever seeing you again is close to nil. (I had a particularly unpleasant experience with a TSA agent during a time when TSA rules had changed - going out it was one set of rules, coming back it was another set of rules and I was still following the older set of rules. It happens.)
It's also not unlikely that tourists will be the target of scams.
What makes this particular episode unbelievable is the OP's own attitude - expecting transit workers to speak English, etc. Which brings up all the other "travel tales" where the OP turns out to be just pulling our legs.
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Even if you do research things, actual events can get confusing on the ground, so please give the OP some benefit of the doubt. Alright, she may have over-reacted by hitting the controllers, but fear can make you do stupid things. The way she's been trashed by posters on this board is nothing short of bullying!
Many years ago in Rome I went to the Porta Portese for the Sunday flea market. Made the MAJOR mistake of wearing sandals I had thought were comfortable, but never really did much walking in. I also got lost within the flea market so the exit gate was not the same as the entrance area. When I was leaving I searched for about 20 minutes for a cab -- no luck. I hopped on a bus because my feet practically had me in tears as they were rubbed raw in a few places. Not knowing any better and not having planned to ride a bus, I naively assumed I would be able to pay the fare on the bus once I got on. Seems I was wrong, so I just stood there riding the bus and not knowing what to do. Finally, I got off once I recognized where I was. Now, if the authorities had caught me, I certainly would have fessed up and paid the fine!
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Actually people cannot even complain about ignorance as the requirement to validate the ticket is on the ticket itself and even in English....
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Good catch, tomascc!
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After reading this person's teenager-like response to Peter's very experienced, eloquent, well described and frankly much too kind response... and then reading OP's post about being able to tell from a distance that police are corrupt because of their looks..
Well, I'm just not sure that "naive" is exactly the right description. I can think of several more accurate.
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guys, if she's a troll, all you are doing is feeding her. let it drop to the bottom of the posts and don't respond.
if she isn't a troll, then we are being pretty nasty. I just sent a friend here and told them not to be afraid to post questions and how helpful everyone is. Where is that friendly community ?
I guess I remember how overwhelming it can be when you are in a new country and flustered, so we can just let this whole thing die a slow and painful death?
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oops, should be 'can we' just let this whole thing die ?
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"Well, I'm just not sure that "naive" is exactly the right description. I can think of several more accurate."
I can think of a 50+ English or American man who is just having a little fun.
Because nobody can be like OP in real life.
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Sure I have been confused on occasion when traveling. But figure that's my own fault. I sure didn't rush to a bunch or different travel forums, and register to rant & complain about my experiences and blame other people for my own mistakes.
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I still think that's probably true elina.
I just can't fathom that someone thinks that based on an unpleasant transit experience, and a surly cab driver - both pretty much universal experiences wherever you go - that it means an entire city is xenophobic. Then to throw in xenophobic or just plain racist things like what's been said about police she never even engaged or attempted to speak to and apply THAT to Hungarians and their institutions as well? I'm sorry, but I can't think how any of this fits the purpose of the forum in terms of either accuracy, cultural awareness or community, frankly. I can't even fathom how someone can miss every possible step on how to take a trip somewhere and how to get around, and then be angry at a city for not holding their hands even more. Jeez, it's European travel. There's so much information available you've nearly had your precious bottom wiped for you before you've ever left your lounge room.
The only rational explanation is that it's all a put on. No one could be this adamantly, well.... not naive. Future readers should at least be able to see this for what people who know better know it to be
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Hi verynaiveirishgirl:
I live in Canada.
I never heard of validating a ticket.
I do not know what entails a validation !!
Whenever I have had to,I just buy a ticket and get on the train/bus/tram!
I know the busy Square ( ter) you are talking about in Budapest.
However,I did not take the Metro there.
But let me tell you "verynaiveirishgirl", whatever comments have been made, you sure got a lot of people talking.
When I have coffee with some of my European friends here ,I will certainly ask them about ticket validation.
I have also been to :
"Dublin's fair city
Where girls are so pretty".
Why ,that's where I met Molly Malone
Take Care, at least I have learned something and it's ticket validation !
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This thread really has it all….. 5 star locations (5 stars!), international intrigue/complaining at the highest levels, and a narrow escape from a distressing experience in deepest, darkest Budapest. There is even an evil twin subplot. Ever notice that naïve irish and pretty american are never in the same room at the same time?
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What is this - the 3 faces of Eve?
I could add a story about how I dropped my sunglasses and the lens fell out - I'm sure it would somehow be the fault of those evil government minions for not warming me properly not to drop my sunglasses. Or not providing me with someone on the spot to repair them. Or a guide to lead me to the nearest optician.
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You know what's worse than the sunglasses? The first night there, we went into a basement sort of eatery and no one spoke english! And as if that wasn't bad enough, the waitress giggled when I pointed at something and then pointed at something else completely! Finally, I took the suggestion and that something else turned out to be a large pig knuckle in broth. Sure, it was tasty, but did it come with chips? No.. It didn't. What kind of country doesn't offer chips with everything? An evil country, that's what. One what hates foreigners.
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Well if you need money to pay your fine, there's a nice man who keeps popping up on the forum offering interest free loans
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.....I can think of a 50+ English or American man who is just having a little fun.....
Yes, it's CW or Pal in drag or the two of them doing a double act.
I have an alibi. I'm 70+
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I don't judge if Hungarians are more or less polite, but the language barrier factor is to be considered.
English native and non-native speakers accept as a fact of live that anybody in the word must know at least some English words, mostly in cities. Most of the time, this assumption is right, but with a few exceptions, beeing Hungary clearly one of them. Besides Hungarian, the official language, German is the 2nd language, many of locals even speak Russian as a 3rd language.
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yes yes StCirq is exactly correct....I heard nothing you said except "at our 5 star hotel".....constantly....and again....and perhaps one more time. lordy...
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May be some writer is reading this thread and will write a movie script. Story is very compelling with vast array of characters (two rude women ticket checkers who looked like beggars, ambassadors, 6 children under the age of 14) and locales (lovely 5 star hotel, etc)
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Did I mention I once went to a 5 star hotel?
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I stayed in a two star on Sunday and a three star on Monday.
Can i tell people I was in a Five star hotel for my vacation?
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The woman with six children may have been a people smuggler.
Throw that into the script.
In the meantime, watch out for "Beware-Rome", this writer's tale of being ripped off by a taxi driver.
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I was amused to read the following statement on another website about Budapest. It was written by someone whom I actually know and have had dinner with:
But one good thing I did on my last visit was to get a one week pass on all public transport. It not only saved money but it meant I didn't have to worry about getting tickets. And there were plains clothes inspectors who saw me getting on buses without a ticket and got up from their seat to come and check me.
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The woman with six children may have been a people smuggler
Perhaps they were en route to neighboring Austria? Were the hills alive with the sound of music?
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My next trip report will be "Beware Venice !"
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lcuy~~ I'll go one better... if I stay in a 1-star hotel for 5-days in a row???
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Ignorance is bliss
Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law
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We have had no problems using the Paris Metro or even the Tokyo Metro and do not speak French or Japanese. No signs were in English in the Tokyo metro, which was fully automated, state of the art, and accessible to all.
The Tokyo metro does have all signs and announcements in Japanese and English.
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Cool website... Thanks
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I have lived in Budapest for more than 6 years and travel on the public transport - trams, buses and the metro trains every day and can therefore comment on this thread from a lot of personal experience.
As far as the comments made by verynaiveirishgirl, all I can say is that, although her experience was unpleasant, it is really not typical. The ticket controllers have their job to carry out and the majority of them do it in a polite and courteous way. I have seen many tourists responding very aggressively to their request to see a valid ticket, however have never seen a ticket inspector respond with aggression or the same bad language that is used against them. On the contrary, they tend to stay calm and even go as far as explaining the rules and the system that should be used for validating tickets. I have even seen controllers let tourists off with a warning to be more careful next time. Every traveler on the system is controlled, not just tourists as has been suggested. It may seem that way, but that's just because it's the tourists that generally don't understand the system and get caught. For anybody traveling to Budapest, or any other city I would really recommend that they do a little homework first, and especially if they intend to use public transport, should check the rules. As far as Budapest public transport is concerned, all ticket controllers are obliged to wear an official BKV armband, show ID if asked and issue a receipt for fines they collect.
For anybody planning a visit to Budapest, there are some good pieces of advice for using public transport in Budapest and other helpful articles, such as currency exchange advice, nightlife scam warnings and even a picture of the Budapest public transport ticket controller's armbands on this website:
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I was served by somebody in McDonalds yesterday.
They had 5 stars.
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Can't we have a "Beware Paris" thread? I'm sure that I would find so many things to warn people about.
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>I'm sure that I would find so many things to warn people about.<
I wish someone had warned me about shops selling wonderful patiserries that I'm completely incapable of walking past. There should be laws against that sort of thing.
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Come to think of it, when we were on the tram/metro, a guy came up to us and said something which made us think he was "official". I figured it must be an inspector, so I pulled out our (validated, since we knew to do so IN ADVANCE) tickets, he nodded, said nashladnow or something like that and went politely on his way. Very innocuos. (sp?)
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Kerouac, I think you need to start a new thread! Looking forward to those postings!
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Still waiting for PalenQ's apology about "the UGLY Americans" he should be taking to task for these uncalled comments....I guess he missed out on the clue "verynaiveirishgirl".
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As the coward checked in?....PalenQ where are u....u want t go down memory road with the Germans?
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I realize this is a year old thread but I have something to add.
We were in Budapest last week and had similar experience with our tickets. One guy came to check them, husband could not understand what he was after, two other guys materialized from some where and offered to help. They did not know i can speak hungarian, so when I said it is better if we go to the police to solve the problem, they went away for a "Talk-over" and did not return????!!!! By the way, we did validate our tick
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If this is the worst her life has been she's had a very lucky life so far. Her luggage was misdirected and she was asked to show her tickets on the metro. What a shame!!
This started my morning with a laugh.
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I must first say that our trip to Budapest has been thoroughly enjoyable and I would highly recommend it to other travellers.
However, this morning it sounds like the very same two ticket inspectors caught myself and my partner without validated tickets. Reading this made me smile, as we too thought the women were migrants - they were really scruffy.
We caught the metro from heros square to go into the city for the first time. I assumed the ticket would've validated when you bought it. Let's be honest,why would you buy a ticket to use on another time?
After trying to explain it was a genuine mistake,she threatened to call the police and instead of having to pay the 8000 forint we would then have to pay 16000 forent. By this time, I didn't trust them so I told them to call the police. She supposedly called the police,and we proceeded to wait for them. During this time my partner decided to call the hotel from his mobile phone for advise. Surprising,the two women promptly told us to go - they were very abusive towards tourists at this point.
Luckily, we did not pay the fine. We weren't intentionally trying to abuse the system. It should be made more clear that you need to stamp the ticket. The stamp machine is not obvious, it's just a small box on a pole. It should be an electronic barrier of some sort.
I know they have a job to do but I don't see why tourists should subsidise the Budapest transport system especially when they only use it for a few days.
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Stamping your ticket is common practice in many palces in europe. How else would they know that the ticket you had wasn;t months old and you were using it for many differnt rides.
And they do tend to stop tourists because 1) locals often have a monthly pass and 2) tourists are more likely to flout the rules - even unintentionally.
When in St Pet we were stopped all 3 times we rode on the bus - and each time the (granted tattily dressed) conductor looked very disappointed that they had been validated.
And it makes no sense for a city to conpletely retool it;s transit system because of something that confuses tourists. All the tourists have to do is ask.
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<< Let's be honest,why would you buy a ticket to use on another time? >>
To save money. A book of 10 tickets costs less than buying 10 individual tickets. And not only in Budapest.
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Wow, this posting by verynaiveirishgirl was Jan. 4, 2011 with many replies soon thereafter. And then it got revived and regurgitated.
Budapest was for us a special place but we were on a guided tour. This meant when traveling on the subway we were in a group and our guide directed us on tickets and warned us about pickpockets. Sure enough, several rough characters got on and off who may have been working the crowd.
So while original poster may seem overwrought I can appreciate the ordeal. Personally I'd go back to Dublin any day but not sure about Budapest on my own.
expatinbudpest, a good advice sheet!
Bill in Boston
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<<And it makes no sense for a city to conpletely retool it;s transit system because of something that confuses tourists. All the tourists have to do is ask.>>
My point is that the Transport System is privately owned and they most likely rely on Tourists not validating their tickets so they can issue on the spot fines to subsidise their transport system. We used the Metro for the first time at Heros Square, as this is not a central station there were no inspectors or any personel at the station to ask for advise.
The only way to know that the ticket needed to be validated was to press the icon with 'I' on the ticket machine, (we know this, because the women proceeded to show us when they were demanding the fine). And then you needed to read a page of text before you actually got to the bit which explained validation.
I don't expect the City to completely retool itself but they need to have a friendlier transport system with conductors who do not prey on tourists who don't know about ticket validation. All they have to do is put a sign up which is visible warning about ticket validation. Maybe put a sign on the machine which validates the ticket - even a diagram indicating a person placking their ticket in the machine would be sufficient.
Our tickets were stamped at 8:30am with the date, it was 8:40am when the two women demanded we pay a fine. We proved to them we only purchased it 10 minutes earlier and we therefore could not have used it previously, but all they were interested in was the money. They hate tourists, that was pretty clear when she was moaning about them to us.
This is from another post on Trip Advisor -
"The Budapest system is privatized. These folks work for the private company that runs the buses and metros, not the government. As a result, although they will ask for your passport, you do not have tio give it to them. Although they may threaten to call the police, and may even call the police (especially if you get abusive), the police will not force you to pay.
They are required to give you a citation if you will not or cannot pay on the spot. It is for more than the on-the-spot fine, and increases as time passes, but it, too, is not an official summons. It is, essentially, a civil action for breach of contract.
So you can walk away with the summons, or if they refuse to give you one, with the guys shouting after you. And you can ignore the fine."
"I have never seen them call the police. In fact, just before I started spending significant time in Hungary there was a court decision that affirmed the fact that the payment of transit fares was not a criminal matter but a civil one and that therefore the police had no role unless the passenger became violent or abusive. In essence, whether o not they threaten to call the police (and they seem o do so pretty regularly when people raise their voices), they don't do so."
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One would find a similar system on the Berlin public system (validation boxes on the platform), or on any Paris bus, and now in the above ground San Francisco transit system where if one does not know English, Spanish or Chinese one would not be warned that one must have a validated tickets on the platforms as well as the trains or buses.
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I went to Europe in 1977 and in Italy their was a shortage of coins. You literally could not get change in coin - at a restaurant or shop they would offer you a pack of m and m's or something instead of giving you change in coin. But the busses had machines that only took coins! So once I rode (in great fear since I am very law abiding) back to my hotel on a bus without a ticket! I suppose (but didn't know) you could buy a bus ticket from a news stand - but you would not have gotten any change!!
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My 12 year and 15 years old daughters and I were traveling Back from secheny bath last night around 10:30 and got off blah luzia train station as we are staying at courtyard marriott. As we got off we were stopped by extremely rude 2 female and one male people and we're ask to show our ticket. Upon showing they told us we have to pay 24000 huf fine as our tickets are not validate. I told them we did not see any machine or a person or a sign to tell us what we are suppose to do. At first they thought we are Indian because of our skin color, upon showing my driver lichen they told us, oh American now pay the fine. I politely tried to explain them and told them that I did not know what to do. They told me they will put me and my daughter in a room if I don't come up with the money. They took me to ATM and machine did not accept my pin. I told them let's go to my hotel it is right across the street, they refuse and told me we will keep increasing your fine if you don't pay us cash now. Then they took me to other machine, by now they we're join by one more man, now I was really scared for the safety of my daughters and I. They told me they will keep me at the station until I come up with money, I wished to speak to higher authority or police and they told me, if request more they will do bad to me. Took us to different ATM and card worked here and I gave them 24000 huf. I got the badge number for these scary people it is 5219, 5217, 5765. Is their any justice for their behavior. Our flight is tomorrow morning. Girls are so scared to get out of the room and want to go to the airport right now. We were up all night long, and scared of our safety. These neo nazi ladies kept smoking and blowing smoke on my daughters faces. I will never ever come back to this country and would not recommend it to my fellow travelers. Hungary country hungry for your money !!!!
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Very unfortunate, sumba2002. You do realize that you are mostly repeating what was posted three and a half years ago about such ticket scamming. And then others testified to bad experiences as well.
When we were in Budapest several years ago we were warned about pick pockets on the subway and indeed saw some! This is a place for tourists to be on guard. I think being in a tour group (Grand Circle) gave us a measure of safety for sure.
Our guide pointed to something to ponder. Under Communist rule travel and freedom in general was restricted and there were shortages and life was drab. Post Communist Hungary you have a thriving economy but maybe crime and drugs. I am not well informed but hear about a political shift to the far right, and that problems exist regarding treatment of gypsies, etc.
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It isn't a tourist scam but the policy of the public transport company. I think it's handled in other countries in a similar manner if the public transport runs on an honor system, i.e. you have a valid ticket or you pay when caught without one.
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I think some of you are totally missing the point of the complaint. It wasn't that you must validate the ticket -- but rather the very threatening way that violaters are treated by the "authorities". For example "I wished to speak to higher authority or police and they told me, if request more they will do bad to me." This is the sort of think the poster is complaining about and rightfully so in my book!
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Yep, they're threatening. People who want to collect a fine normally are.
See it from their point of view. They are there to collect fines from fare dodgers to scare people into buying tickets. They've heard any excuse before and the majority of them were lies. This includes lies from tourists who think that they'll get away with not buying or validating tickets.
If you get caught, you get the easy and cheap option to pay a fine on the spot with minimal administration effort for thtransport company. If you don't, the fine doubles.
They also do a tough and often dangerous job facing all kinds of people a large city has to offer, including the drunk, the mad and the violent. They experience people who run away or attack them. They don't walk outside of stations to hotel rooms or such stuff and they make sure that they aren't alone with someone who might turn violent.
As for speaking to higher authority, the higher authority is probably at home sleeping and certainly unwilling to come there to discuss whether the fine is a scam or not. These guys are the authority.
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I agree with you, Neo. I chalk a lot of these responses up to magical thinking: if I do everything right and am well organized and prepared, nothing bad or unpleasant can happen to me. The flip side, of course, is that if something bad or unpleasant does happen to you, it must be your fault. Which is nonsense, of course, but it may be the most cherished illusion of many travelers who post here.
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I had virtually the same experience in Budapest in 2002. Friend and I had been out at a lovely dinner and were taking the metro back to our hotel around 10:30/11 at night. We were using metro as we'd been told at our hotel and by others that the cabs could be sketchy. We knew about the ticket validation requirement, we'd been there at that point for 3 days, but when we went to switch lines, we could not find ANYWHERE the machine to validate our second ticket. We spent about 15 minutes looking and tried to find an English speaker to ask with no luck, and when a train pulled in we decided we had to get on it since it was getting so late and we didn't know whether that was the last train.
When we got off (along with lots of other people) at our station, three "ticket inspectors" immediately beelined to the two of us and asked in English to see our tickets. We explained to them what had happened, showed them the one unvalidated ticket as well as the 10+ validated tickets we each had in our pockets and purses from our previous metro trips, including the validated ticket from the first 1/2 of our journey that night. They immediately started SCREAMING at us, very aggressive, backing us up against a wall. At this point, it was 11/11:30-ish at night, and the station had completely cleared out so it was just us and them. For two 20-something females, this was terrifying. Then they demanded cash. Again, they are SCREAMING at us, all three at once, rather than just saying "look, the rules are the rules so you need to pay a fine." I was trying to explain that we were leaving early the next morning and had no cash, and one of the ticket inspectors grabbed my wallet out of my hand and started rifling through it. Then they said they would take us to an ATM so that we could pay the "fine", otherwise they would call the police. I seriously contemplated making a run for it - they were older and overweight and our hotel was very close by - or letting them go ahead and call the police, but my friend was terrified and so we let them march us to an ATM where we each withdrew the $6 fine.
I have traveled widely and used public transportation all throughout Europe, Asia, and Latin America, and I've never had an experience like this. I was never so glad to leave a country as I was to leave Hungary and I have no desire to return to Budapest - while this was the worst experience, virtually everyone we encountered was unhelpful and unpleasant.
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Not related perhaps to the ticket problems...yet maybe reflecting discontent is a long article in The Nation (May 26) entitled "Hungary and the End of Politics." While it is about the present government and questionable political tactics, it does underscore unsettled conditions which might discourage travel there.
One line has this: "When Hungary joined the European Union in 2004, Hungarians took advantage of the new opportunities to migrate, but they did so in smaller numbers than most of their counterparts in the new member state. Recently, that pattern has changed. Faced with targeted austerity, Hungarians who are able to survive outside the country...are leaving in drove and looking for work." This if they have good contacts, speak a second language, marketable skills.
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>>Yep, they're threatening. People who want to collect a fine normally are.<<
No, actually, most people are in official uniforms or display ID that authorizes them to collect fines. They don't need to resort to threats.
I live in a large city in the northeast US and have been to Europe a dozen times, plus lived there for about 2 years. And I can tell you what my reaction would be if a civilian, displaying no official ID, walked up to me and demanded to see my ticket. I would tell them to take a hike. Or maybe I'd ask to see their ticket. Hell, how does anyone know I'm not a ticket inspector?
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Two ladies and one man from Nazi regime.>
to equate this will Nazis is IMO terrible and an insult to all who suffered at the hands if Nazism and calling it so taints the caller - with such an attitude no wonder he/she got so much harassment - probably deserved with such an attitude.
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"No, actually, most people are in official uniforms or display ID that authorizes them to collect fines. They don't need to resort to threats.
I live in a large city in the northeast US and have been to Europe a dozen times, plus lived there for about 2 years. And I can tell you what my reaction would be if a civilian, displaying no official ID, walked up to me and demanded to see my ticket. I would tell them to take a hike. Or maybe I'd ask to see their ticket. Hell, how does anyone know I'm not a ticket inspector?"
And what makes you believe that they had no ID? One of the posters even posted their badge numbers: "I got the badge number for these scary people it is 5219, 5217, 5765."
They don't need to resort to threats in the vast majority of cases since most people accept that the guy with an ID to whom all the others show their tickets when exiting the metro station is a genuine ticket controller. And they think that if you get caught without a valid ticket, you pay the fine. Or maybe you try to argue but know that it's just good-will to let you pass without a fine.
And then there are some people who think that the people with an ID who catch you without a valid ticket are an uncough intrusion into their vacation and should understand that they are tourists and not to be bothered with such an unpleasant experience.
And that's the moment when they get threatening by pointing out that this isn't a discussion where people agree to disagree and part ways. Instead their job is to make sure that you pay and they have a lot of more unpleasant options than just walking to the next ATM to get about 25 euro to pay on the spot. Exactly as any other country has unpleasant options to make sure that fines are paid since otherwise people don't pay.
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"I agree with you, Neo. I chalk a lot of these responses up to magical thinking: if I do everything right and am well organized and prepared, nothing bad or unpleasant can happen to me. The flip side, of course, is that if something bad or unpleasant does happen to you, it must be your fault. Which is nonsense, of course, but it may be the most cherished illusion of many travelers who post here."
If you move in a strange environment, unexpected and sometimes unpleasant things happen. The less prepared you are, the more likely it is. But I agree that there's no way to be 100% sure that it can't happen.
The question is just whether you consider that risk as a part of travelling to strange places with different customs or whether you think that these places should adapt their customs to what you're used to so that you don't have to experience unpleasant things.
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One thing strikes me about the ticket incidents mentioned. Several "victims" were women or teens on their own out late at night. Likely any Americans traveling overseas or for that matter anywhere should always be cautious about personal safety. Haven't you seen many tourists studying their maps looking lost?
I'm remembering years ago when our daughter was living in New York City her advice about getting around included avoid late hours, stay with crowds, don't look like tourists, be alert at all times, etc. Always scary when something happens...
like years ago on a crowded Athens bus when both of us had our wallets lifted. Our guards were down as we had just arrived from being in villages in Crete.
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Yes, Hans, of course you make a good point. But I would argue that there is no way to adapt to the situation described in this thread, or, in other words, that there is no excuse for the behavior of these Metro "officials", if they did behave as rudely as the OP and others claim.
Since neither you nor I were there, we can't know if the tourists' descriptions are inaccurately self-serving, or if these fine-extractors were truly frightening and unacceptably rude.
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First of all the OP made this trip 3 years ago - and has hopefully grown up and learned more about the world by now.
Second, she admitted she cursed out AND STRUCK the metro agent.
Someone who goes ballistic and starts hitting people is simply out of control - no matter whose mistake it was or what the circumstances.
My hope is that she not only never goes back to Budapest but never goes anywhere - she will probably be much happier and I know I will.
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"Yes, Hans, of course you make a good point. But I would argue that there is no way to adapt to the situation described in this thread, or, in other words, that there is no excuse for the behavior of these Metro "officials", if they did behave as rudely as the OP and others claim.
Since neither you nor I were there, we can't know if the tourists' descriptions are inaccurately self-serving, or if these fine-extractors were truly frightening and unacceptably rude."
Sure, I don't know whether they were extremely and needlessly rude.
But while I haven't read all 200+ posts,, in all cases I read the people actually had no valid ticket. There was a reason why the ticket inspectors demanded the fines.
Still I read a lot of talk about scam, corruption or you writing "officials" as if it was unclear whether they were actually employed by the metro or not.
In my opinion a way to adapt to it would have been to pay the fine without a lot of arguing.
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In my opinion a way to adapt to it would have been to pay the fine without a lot of arguing.>
Yup do the crime, do the time - and being a naive tourist is no escape - sympathetic inspectors have been know to just instruct tourists are on their naive mistake but the case of the person calling them Nazis tells a lot about their confrontation attitude and subsequent harsh treatment. I agree with hans - pay the smallish fine and be over with it.
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I can totally understand your fears and anger while you were in Budapest. I had a similar experience..."taxi drivers" when I was in Prague with my husband a few years ago. We used to live in London and travelled quite a bit to other European countries while we were there. I'm a suspicious character to begin with so I'm always "aware" when I go anywhere. You have to be on the "alert" when traveling to foreign places, particularly when you don't speak their language. My husband and I are leaving this fall for Budapest for my birthday. I hope we'll have pleasant encounters while we're there.
Thanks for giving me the "heads up" on this city. I will be well prepared for this trip because of your experiences. Easy travels!
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This just happened to my husband and I, except we had validated tickets that had expired a few minutes before. Honestly, we were ok paying the fine - our mistake - but the way our passports were immediately demanded, and then the threats we received when we told them we did not have enough cash and needed to go to an ATM, were completely unnecessary. The inspectors also mocked our Latino heritage by repeatedly saying the word "Spanish" over and over again and laughing.
A really upsetting experience over an honest mistake we wanted to remedy quickly. Will be avoiding the metro from now on.
For future travelers: you have the right to pay the fine later and leave the station immediately if you feel unsafe or degraded. NEVER give them ID, especially your passport. They have no legal right to this.
Good luck!
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We spent a week in Budapest in late October and definitely did not come away with a warm, fuzzy feeling about the place, though we didn't use the metro. There are certainly some wonderful sights to see there, and some wonderful people, but the underlying vibe was one of subdued opression and resentment. A kind of tired, worn-out, who cares? sorry-to-be-stuck here feeling that seems to permeate even the most inconsequential encounters.
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