text:
I sit on the Avaya IOC Advisory council. We have our next meeting in late July in Denver. These meetings are attended by some very proactive, interested Avaya dealer principals with some amazing insight and direction as to where the IP Office product should go.
I'm always looking for features, thoughts … to bring to these meetings, so, if you have any ideas please send me an email. I will keep you posted and let you know how it goes.


text:
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 02:01 PM
struggle4progress (94,077 posts)
WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange to address UN meeting via videolink from embassy hideout
Source: Associated Press
UNITED NATIONS Ecuador says it has invited WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange to address a meeting on the sidelines of the U.N. General Assembly via a videolink from his refuge in the countrys London embassy.
Assange will speak Wednesday alongside Ecuadors foreign minister Ricardo Patino at a specially convened event to discuss his asylum case ...
Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/wikileaks-founder-julian-assange-to-address-un-meeting-via-videolink-from-embassy-hideout/2012/09/25/9355a858-073a-11e2-9eea-333857f6a7bd_story.html
This can only be understood an attempt by Ecuador to ratchet up tensions with the UK, so it shows that Ecuador is not negotiating with the UK in good faith: further evidence, leading to the same conclusion, is the fact that Assange himself, at the end of last week, was attempting to draw Argentina into the affair against the UK
... Wikileaks founder Julian Assange said that Argentina's support is very important, because Argentina has experience with facing the UK ...
97 replies, 15576 views
|97 replies
WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange to address UN meeting via videolink from embassy hideout (Original post)
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|a geek named Bob
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|a geek named Bob
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|woo me with science
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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 02:05 PM
a geek named Bob (2,715 posts)
1. dude...
I've met professional reporters, from back in the day, with less dedication to a story, than you show.
I'm starting to admire your interest in this tale.
And I'm glad Assange is not yet black bagged by the covert sections of the USA...
Response to a geek named Bob (Reply #1)
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 02:09 PM
ret5hd (12,278 posts)
2. it's just a job.
he's got his assignment, you've got yours. no diff.
Response to ret5hd (Reply #2)
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 02:10 PM
a geek named Bob (2,715 posts)
4. good point...
but I can admire workmanship...
Ummm... what's my job here?
Response to a geek named Bob (Reply #4)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 07:39 AM
Bragi (7,650 posts)
42. Your job is the same as the rest of us
We post so PR sock puppets can live.
Response to Bragi (Reply #42)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 07:49 AM
a geek named Bob (2,715 posts)
43. Damn... missed the memo
okay... whic hPR sock puppet am I reporting to?
Response to a geek named Bob (Reply #43)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 04:08 PM
yurbud (38,418 posts)
59. see OPer
Response to yurbud (Reply #59)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 04:26 PM
a geek named Bob (2,715 posts)
61. should I do weekly or quarterly reports?
Response to ret5hd (Reply #2)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 02:42 PM
woo me with science (32,139 posts)
53. Yep. Gotta keep labeling the propaganda for what it is.
The Assange smearing/spinning/rewriting is an urgent goal for the government and the one percent, because this story threatens to open more eyes to what our government really has become, even under a Democratic President, and how ruthless the authoritarianism can become when unflattering secrets are revealed.
Any story that threatens to reveal the collusion between government and the one percent, and especially stories that reveal the corrupt use of government to punish and silence those who would expose their collusion, will always be urgently spun like this for public consumption.
Response to woo me with science (Reply #53)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 04:47 PM
ret5hd (12,278 posts)
67. thank you. i'm too lazy to type that much.
and besides, i'm not getting paid.
Response to struggle4progress (Original post)
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 02:09 PM
avaistheone1 (14,626 posts)
3. This is good news.
Response to struggle4progress (Original post)
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 02:30 PM
JDPriestly (57,936 posts)
5. To paraphrase an astute comment from Obama's speech to the UN today:
When a person can simply click a button on their cell phone to send information far and wide, you really cannot control the dissemination of information.
If a the transmission and dissemination of a controversial and insulting film cannot be controlled, then the time for secrets and thought and information control is past. There is no way to reassert the "ownership" on the media or on information.
The fact is that to many of the emerging nations, Assange is at the same time a phenomenon to be feared and to be embraced.
The President's speech about embracing diversity and free speech was wonderful today. There is no escaping the fact that if we start repressing people like Assange, however annoying they may be, however much they frustrate our desire to be in control of the world or at least our own information, we will not succeed. The technology has taken the matter out of our control.
Last week, when Stevens was killed in Benghazi, CNN found Stevens personal diary or notebook. Stevens' family was, naturally, unhappy that CNN broadcast information from the diary without the permission (if I understand the situation correctly) of the family. I suspect that the Obama administration was also unhappy about that.
Too bad. If CNN found the information, the book abandoned somewhere or was given the book by some sort, and if CNN deemed it newsworthy, then CNN enjoys the First Amendment right to publish the information it found.
No different for Assange. He was handed information. He "found" that information. It was his to publish.
Now it is time for the US government to be consistent. If we believe in freedom of the press, we let Assange speak and be free. If not, how can we expect countries like Egypt or Afghanistan or Pakistan or Syria or Saudi Arabia or Libya to believe our claim that we value freedom of religion and speech above all else. (As the First Amendment requires us to do.)
Response to JDPriestly (Reply #5)
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 03:05 PM
pnwmom (86,356 posts)
6. The US hasn't done anything to Assange. They've only prosecuted Manning, because he was
a service person with a special obligation to keep those documents confidential. And they never made a move to extradite Assange from the UK, where we have a perfectly usable extradition agreement.
Assange and his lawyer are using the situation with Manning to avoid Assange's extradition to Sweden on rape charges.
Response to pnwmom (Reply #6)
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 03:14 PM
Pharaoh (8,209 posts)
7. so far there has been no prosecution of Manning
Rule of Law Abandoned in Bradley Manning Prosecution
by Nathan Fuller, September 14, 2012
Print This | Share This
Bradley Mannings critics need to be more careful if they want to accuse him of breaking the law. The real outrage is the way prosecutors and the military more broadly have handled his case: the Marines and Army have violated their own code of justice in several ways, for several months, precluding a fair trial and making a mockery of the rule of law.
The complaints of critics reveal the fundamental hypocrisy in Mannings case the rule of law is not applied evenly. While war criminals, torturers, and known murderers walk freely, the military is aggressively punishing the messenger who exposed heinous crimes and rampant abuse. Prosecutors go beyond disciplining a soldier for stepping out of line, attempting to associate whistleblowing with terrorism by charging Manning with aiding the enemy.
Response to Pharaoh (Reply #7)
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 03:17 PM
pnwmom (86,356 posts)
8. You're right, I misspoke. n/t
Response to Pharaoh (Reply #7)
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 09:04 PM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
22. You are incorrect. There has been no trial, but there is a prosecution. nt
Response to msanthrope (Reply #22)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 12:00 AM
Peace Patriot (24,010 posts)
31. Wrong, msanthrope! No charges have been filed against Assange!
The sex allegations are so flimsy and absurd that the first Swedish prosecutor dropped the case and told Assange he could leave Sweden. Then they brought in a more politically ambitious prosecutor to pursue Assange "for questioning"--strictly to get him into custody (for "rendition" to the U.S.) in my opinion. Still no charges have been filed on any kind of sex allegation. This is all about QUESTIONING. The U.K. threatened to storm the Ecuadoran embassy to get hold of a man wanted for questioning on allegations that the first prosecutor dropped.
Assange was being set up for an arrest. That's ALL the current Swedish prosecutors really want. They want him in custody though they have no case against him! Furthermore, he has repeatedly made himself available for questioning and they have refused to question him! Why? The latest offer is for Ecuador to move Assange to their embassy in Sweden so he can be "questioned" there. And they will turn it down, believe me. They have no interest in Assange on these sex allegations. It is all a pretext to get him into custody and "rendered" to the U.S. for the crime of journalism.
Response to Peace Patriot (Reply #31)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 06:52 AM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
39. Um--Do you realize I was replying to a post about Bradley Manning, not Mr. Assange?
That's number one. Number two--perhaps you haven't noticed but an issuance of an EAW would indicate that a prosecution of Mr. Assange is indeed underway in Sweden. Number three--he has a prosecution against him in Great Britian for bail jumping.
You seem to think the world's slowest black bag operation is going on, but you've provided no proof of same.
Response to Peace Patriot (Reply #31)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 04:39 PM
struggle4progress (94,077 posts)
64. "... It is a central contention of the defence that the warrant was issued for questioning
rather than prosecution ... I am satisfied that there is no equivocal statement or ambiguity in the warrant. The English version of the warrant states that it is for the purposes of conducting a criminal prosecution or executing a custodial sentence or detention order. The warrant refers to offences, indicates the relevant provisions of Swedish criminal law; and identifies specific conduct against Mr Assange ... The person who knows whether she wants the defendant for the purpose of being prosecuted is the Swedish prosecutor ... The fact that Sweden requires a person to be interrogated, before a formal decision to charge is made, is not determinative. Each country has its own procedures for prosecuting offences ... In summary: ... looking at all the circumstances in the round, this person passes the threshold of being an accused person and is wanted for prosecution ..."
City of Westminster Magistrates Court (Sitting at Belmarsh Magistrates Court)
The judicial authority in Sweden -v- Julian Paul Assange
Findings of facts and reasons
Response to msanthrope (Reply #22)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 08:41 PM
Pharaoh (8,209 posts)
83. you really can not prosecute
unless you "have" a trial. Otherwise it is just an alleged crime, backed up by nothing. Manning is being held in indefinite detention without trial. Unconstitutional.
Response to Pharaoh (Reply #83)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 09:48 PM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
86. What are you talking about? His trial is scheduled for next year, after the defense completes its
endless motions. In fact, the next round of motions--filed by the defense--are in November.
His defense attorney maintains a blog--you should read it for case updates.
Response to Pharaoh (Reply #83)
Thu Sep 27, 2012, 09:02 AM
struggle4progress (94,077 posts)
91. The trial had most recently been scheduled to start 21 September but was delayed by
still more defense motions: on the latest court schedule, the trial will begin 4 February 2013 and is expected to end by 15 March 2013
Response to pnwmom (Reply #6)
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 05:12 PM
JDPriestly (57,936 posts)
17. There were rumors of a grand jury before the Swedish matter was big in the press.
And members of Congress expressed the desire to try Assange. Those statements have not been withdrawn as far as I know. There have been no apologies for the excess zeal in those statements.
Assange has grounds to be worried and to have sought asylum. He will continue to need asylum until it becomes clear that no charges will be brought. That could take a while. I don't blame him for being careful. I think he should be treated like any other journalist.
If a guy can make some provocative and fictional movie that causes disturbances around the world with impunity, then Assange should be able to publish provocative truths with as much if not more impunity. The First Amendment applies both to the maker of the awful film and to Assange. That is my view. I agree with Obama's statement in his speech this morning. It was a great speech.
Response to JDPriestly (Reply #17)
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 11:08 PM
pnwmom (86,356 posts)
28. Rumors? So? The grand jury is needed to prosecute Manning.
They need to connect Manning to Assange in order to prosecute Manning for the leaks.
Other than that, there's just rumor and speculation.
Why is Assange acting like he's at more risk of extradition from Sweden than from the UK? They both have extradition agreements with the US, and the one with Sweden specifically excludes people charged with political crimes. So he would be LESS likely to be extradited from Sweden than from the UK.
Response to pnwmom (Reply #28)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 02:17 AM
AntiFascist (11,061 posts)
34. The nature of the investigation was revealed by Australian media...
through FOIA documents. Assange is being investigated as a co-conspirator of Manning and may be prosecuted for espionage, if he had foreknowledge that releasing the cables could harm US national security. This is beyond rumor and speculation, and jibes with Eric Holder's stated goals in 2010.
Also, how would Assange be at risk of extradition from the UK when the UK won't be detaining him? As soon as he steps outside the embassy he would be sent to Sweden anyway?
Response to AntiFascist (Reply #34)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 02:49 AM
pnwmom (86,356 posts)
37. If the US had sent an extradition request, the UK could have detained him at any point
in the months before he went into the Embassy.
The Australian media has revealed nothing except rumor and speculation. I believe Charles Rangel, who says there are no laws under which he could even be prosecuted. The more Assange and his lawyer claim this, the longer this will drag out since otherwise it could appear that the Obama administration was knuckling under to pressure -- even though the truth is they long ago gave up any thought of prosecuting him.
Response to pnwmom (Reply #37)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 03:27 AM
AntiFascist (11,061 posts)
38. The Australian embassy reported...
''a broad range of possible charges <against Assange> are under consideration, including espionage and conspiracy''. That sounds pretty straightforward to me. Notice that the Australian media is explaining what the Australian embassy in Washington DC is reporting, who have been cooperating with the investigation.
I don't know that the Obama Admin has given up any thought of prosecution, in fact Reuters reported in August, 2012 that they were divided on the issue. If the Head of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, the Vice President and the Secretary of State all want him prosecuted (and all who happen to be high-level Democrats) then surely Obama will take their advice into account.
Response to AntiFascist (Reply #38)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 01:28 PM
pnwmom (86,356 posts)
49. They WERE under consideration, but -- upon consideration -- it was clear that the laws
weren't there to support it.
The more Assange and his lawyer squawk about this, the longer they are going to drag things out. The Obama administration can't be seen as knuckling under to political pressure from Assange. Otherwise, this could have been over long ago.
Response to pnwmom (Reply #49)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 02:21 PM
AntiFascist (11,061 posts)
51. Do you have any proof of this or is it just mere speculation?
I could just as easily speculate that the Obama administration is playing a waiting game and when the timing is right will move forward with prosecution. Bluffing could work in his favor because if Assange's protectors decide he can move to Sweden without asylum, he would then be exposed to possible extradition to the US.
Charlie Rangel is only a Representative and does not sit on the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, so he is not exposed to the same high-level information as those who have been calling for Assange's prosecution. The Manning case is also shrouded in secrecy so the DOJ is being very tight-lipped about what lies at the center of the case for conspiracty between Manning and Assange.
The argument that "Assange is not a citizen of the US, therefore he is not subject to prosecution under the Espionage Act" does not hold up since there is case history of foreign spies being indicted under the Act.
Response to AntiFascist (Reply #51)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 02:51 PM
pnwmom (86,356 posts)
54. What is a fact is that the Obama administration made no move to extradict Assange from
the UK in all the months he was there. What is also a fact is that the extradition agreement with Sweden (but not with the UK) excludes political prisoners; and that if he were extradited to Sweden now, both the UK and Sweden would have to agree to a further extradition to the US. So if the US were interested, it would make no sense to encourage Sweden to extradite him first, when that would just put up additional barriers for the US to extradite him.
So, yes, I am speculating about the US's lack of interest in extraditing Assange -- but you and Assange are speculating about the opposite. And there are plenty of indicators that I am correct.
Response to pnwmom (Reply #54)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 03:04 PM
AntiFascist (11,061 posts)
56. See post #55 below...
the Manning case is not far enough along and likely has not produced sufficient evidence that can be divulged yet. The DOJ has been tripping up on releasing classified information to Manning's defense team. The Manning trial won't even start until next year.
Sweden has much tougher laws regarding pre-trial detention of suspects, so much so that they have come under criticism by anti-torture groups. They would deny him communication with anyone other than his lawyer. This reason alone might be enough to warrant him being detained in Sweden by those who fear Wikileaks.
Response to pnwmom (Reply #28)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 02:55 PM
JDPriestly (57,936 posts)
55. Because the US is not ready to try to extradite Assange at this time.
If Sweden extradites Assange, they can delay his trial and hold him in custody as high risk of flight as soon as they charge him. So Sweden can hold Assange as a prisoner until and if the US wants to extradite him. At this time, the US probably does not have any evidence to support extraditing Assange. Frankly, I do not know whether the US will ever get that kind of evidence, but at this time, I don't think they have it.
So that is a possible reason why the extradition to Sweden is so important and why the US is not seeking extradition. -- Because they are buying time.
It is also possible that Sweden is expected to railroad Assange into jail which would silence him and serve as an example to other truly independent news media reporters that independent reporting does not pay.
So it is not hard to figure out possible reasons. But they remain theories. We can only know for sure if the US and Sweden decide to tell us what their strategies are. And they are unlikely to do that. Assange has smart lawyers. And he is also smart -- smart enough to do what his lawyers advise him to do. That is what anyone in his situation should do.
Lawyers confronted with a case like Assange's do a lot of research. You and I are just guessing. So Assange is wise to trust his lawyers and their research and knowledge.
Response to JDPriestly (Reply #55)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 09:06 PM
Pharaoh (8,209 posts)
84. they don't need
nor care about no stinking evidence,
that's not how they operate.
Response to JDPriestly (Reply #55)
Thu Sep 27, 2012, 09:11 AM
struggle4progress (94,077 posts)
93. Under Swedish law, Assange's trial should begin within two weeks of the day he's charged,
if he's in custody when charged
Response to struggle4progress (Reply #93)
Thu Sep 27, 2012, 10:11 PM
reorg (3,317 posts)
96. check your sources
The prosecutor said something that has been interpreted this way, but a quick look at the
Swedish Code of Judicial Procedure
shows there is no binding rule to this effect.
a) as you say yourself - the time period only starts when charges are brought, when the prosecutor files with a court for a summons, which is equivalent to an indictment. However, as we all know, this hasn't happened yet. The preliminary investigation alone can still take months. You never know when someone whose presence during an interview the prosecutor deems indispensable might catch a cold, you know, like in early September 2010. There are no limits to pre-trial detention in Sweden. If an accused is considered a flight risk, he will be held in detention, however long the investigation will take.
There is no maximum period of pre-trial detention in Sweden. However, if no legal action has been taken within 14 days, a new remand hearing is required. In 2010 there were approximately 1,700 pre-trial detainees in Sweden, who made up 24% of the total prison population. http://www.fairtrials.net/documents/DetentionWithoutTrialFullReport.pdf
b) "... If the defendant is under arrest or in detention, the main hearing shall be held within one week from the date of the institution of the prosecution unless, as a result of a measure stated in Section 11 or 12 ..." (see below)
c) "... or another circumstance, a longer postponement is necessary."
Chapter 45, INSTITUTION OF PUBLIC PROSECUTION, Section 14 (p. 248)
Section 11
For the purpose of making possible a full trial of the case at the main hearing in an uninterrupted sequence, the court may direct the prosecutor to complete the preliminary investigation or, if no preliminary investigation has been held, to conduct one.
Section 12
If required in order to assure that all evidence shall be available at the main hearing in an uninterrupted sequence, orders shall be issued without delay for obtaining expert opinions, production of written evidence, or objects for viewing or inspection, or for taking any other preparatory measure.
Response to pnwmom (Reply #6)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 09:55 AM
cstanleytech (15,062 posts)
45. Well you may well be right, I dont know and as long as Assange is allowed to remain
in the embassy we probably will never learn if he actually did drug and then rape a women while she was unconscious.
Response to struggle4progress (Original post)
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 03:23 PM
AntiFascist (11,061 posts)
9. So, do you have any evidence....
that the UK views this as hostile behavior? Ecuador is a very small player compared to the UK and the only reason the UK is taking this so seriously is because of the support Ecuador has garnered from other other Latin American nations, paricularly when the UK was hinting that they might enter the embassy to arrest Assange. That was what originally racheted up tensions.
Response to AntiFascist (Reply #9)
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 09:22 PM
struggle4progress (94,077 posts)
24. British minister predicts long showdown over Assange
(AFP) 5 hours ago
... Hague told reporters in New York that he had held talks with Ecuador's Vice President Lenin Moreno in August over the Australian activist and that negotiations would continue.
"I've seen no sign of any breakthrough since our meeting," Hague said.
"The position was to uphold the law in the United Kingdom. That remains the position. This may go on for some time." The British minister is to hold talks with Ecuador's Foreign Minister Ricardo Patino on Thursday.
Hague would not comment on Assange's plan to speak to diplomats and reporters at the UN event organized by the Ecuador government ...
Response to struggle4progress (Reply #24)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 02:45 AM
AntiFascist (11,061 posts)
36. Here is the Swedish Prosecution Authority's website...
Last edited Wed Sep 26, 2012, 03:36 AM - Edit history (1)
explaining why Assange is needed in Sweden:
The prosecutors assessment is that, for the purpose of the investigation, Mr Assange needs to be available in Sweden during the preliminary investigation. Without going into the details about the work of the investigation, it can be mentioned that there is a need, during interviews with Mr Assange, to be able to present, and question him about, the evidence that has emerged in the investigation to date. When continuing the investigation there is also a need to be able to carry out supplementary interviews, as required, with Mr Assange and the other persons involved.
Under Swedish law, the defendant must be present in person at the trial in cases involving this type of crime. If the preliminary investigation leads to a finding that there is sufficient evidence to prosecute Mr Assange, his personal presence is required in Sweden so that a trial can be held and any sentence enforced. The courts detention order means that Mr Assange has been detained to ensure this.
Nowhere does it say that Assange must be taken into police custody immediately as a matter of law. It only indicates that the detention order is needed to ensure that he is physically present "if the preliminary investigation leads to a finding that there is sufficient evidence to prosecute Mr Assage" Assange also needs to be physically present for interactive questioning.
Since the UK has no need and no desire to keep Assange within the UK, one would think they could be discussing the possibility with Sweden of having him moved to the Swedish embassy for questioning. When and if the time comes for Assange to face trial, then Sweden can work with Ecuador directly without the UK necessarilly being an intermediary.
Now you will likely say that Assange doesn't deserve special treatment and needs be treated like any other suspect. The fact is that he is already receiving special treatment by Ecuador, whether he is in the UK or Sweden it would be the same. Also, keep in mind that most suspects for this level of crime and amount of evidence would not be detained in prison. Assange's defense team has outstanding complaints against Sweden for their treatment of Assange.
Response to AntiFascist (Reply #36)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 09:04 AM
struggle4progress (94,077 posts)
44. There has been a Swedish court order for Assange's arrest since 2010: Assange appealed
that order in Sweden and lost, and then he lost again on subsequent appeal in Sweden. Why? Well, Assange has a little habit of skipping out:
(1) according to testimony in the UK magistrate's court, from Assange's own lawyer, Assange left Sweden in 2010 while the Swedish authorities were negotiating with the lawyer to arrange further interrogation of Assange; and
(2) Assange subsequently agreed to return to Sweden for interrogation but did not appear as agreed
Based on Assange's habit of skipping out, the Swedish authorities opposed bail for Assange in the UK in late 2010, but bail was granted nevertheless -- and (of course!) Assange jumped bail, when his UK appeals were exhausted
Right now, Assange is misusing the Ecuadorian embassy in the UK to ignore the rulings of English courts -- and he proposes next to misuse the Ecuadorian embassy in Swedish to ignore the rulings of the Swedish courts: they, naturally, will have no interest in this charade
... Assange himself told friends in London that he was supposed to return to Stockholm for a police interview during the week beginning 11 October, and that he had decided to stay away ...
10 Days in Sweden
The Guardian / By Nick Davies
Response to struggle4progress (Reply #44)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 11:27 AM
reorg (3,317 posts)
46. You probably haven't heard
there is a special event scheduled at the UN headquarters for today:
High-level event on Strengthening the international human rights system: The diplomatic asylum (organized by the Permanent Mission of Ecuador)
From 18:30 to 20:00 in Conference Room 6 (NLB).
[All permanent missions and permanent observer missions are invited to attend. For further information, please contact the Permanent Mission of Ecuador (e-mail email@example.com; tel. 1 (212) 935-1680).] http://t.co/FuTpyKex
The event will address some of your questions regarding the function and use of embassies.
Here some background info regarding Assange's contribution to the event:
Response to reorg (Reply #46)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 12:16 PM
hack89 (36,790 posts)
47. The ICJ ruled in1950 that diplomactic ayslum is not part of accepted international law
Ecuador may have granted asylum to the man inside their embassy, but the United Kingdom doesn't recognize it. At issue are divergent views on the concept of diplomatic asylum -- a nation's granting of asylum to someone not inside its territory. The concept of diplomatic asylum is as old as the practice of having permanent embassies in foreign countries. It is tied closely with the practice of diplomatic immunity, which is more well known.
But controversies over countries using diplomatic asylum to protect people wanted for crimes led to the practice falling out of favor, according to a United Nations report devoted to the subject in 1975.
The result is that today, the view in most of world is that diplomatic asylum, in essence, does not exist.
One last tidbit of academic dryness before considering the Assange case: The prevailing view that diplomatic asylum is not part of accepted international law was settled in a case between Peru and Colombia before the International Court of Justice in 1950. Victor de la Haya, a Peruvian, led an unsuccessful rebellion in Peru and was wanted by authorities there. He hid in the Colombian embassy in Lima and asked for, and received asylum from Colombia. Peru, however, refused to grant safe passage. Sound familiar?
Response to hack89 (Reply #47)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 12:42 PM
reorg (3,317 posts)
48. It is quite funny
that some CNN hack claims to believe that "diplomatic asylum" does not exist, LOL.
No such concerns were ever raised, especially by CNN hacks, when the US complied with the wishes of those who sought shelter in a US embassy. Nor did anybody complain about the "misuse" of embassies when thousands of East Germans stormed the West German embassies in Budapest and Prague. Ambassadors can pretty much do what they want with the premises of their embassies. The US uses them for their CIA goons, who sometimes kidnap locals, or shoot them dead.
Julian Assange has been granted policital asylum by Ecuador. He had the right to ask and they had the right to grant asylum. Nothing else matters. The idea of "diplomatic asylum", using an embassy as a shelter, is widely accepted in LA and they have a convention stating it. They believe it strengthens human rights. That's what they'll be talking about tonight, I guess.
Response to reorg (Reply #48)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 01:58 PM
hack89 (36,790 posts)
50. LA can believe and do what they want
it has no standing in international law. My only point.
Response to hack89 (Reply #50)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 04:31 PM
reorg (3,317 posts)
62. The discussion tonight is about human rights
and perhaps it will be pointed out that "diplomatic asylum" ought to be universally recognized, not just universally practiced.
High-level event on Strengthening the international human rights system: The diplomatic asylum (organized by the Permanent Mission of Ecuador)
From 18:30 to 20:00 in Conference Room 6 (NLB).
The irony of the current situation is that Ecuador is trying to prevent abuse of the process. They have suggested ways to proceed with the condom allegations. As it stands, the Swedes and the Brits are the ones who are stalling.
Response to reorg (Reply #62)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 06:18 PM
hack89 (36,790 posts)
70. Why do you keep minimizing the rape charges?
you know that there were four separate charges that included forced sex and aggressive behavior - it much more than a broken condom and you know it. "Condom allegations" smacks of minimizing the victims' allegations. The charge is rape - why can't you bring yourself to say that word?
Response to hack89 (Reply #70)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 07:21 PM
reorg (3,317 posts)
75. I know the prosecutor is investigating possible charges
based on information that is for the most part publicly known.
Three of these possible charges are directly linked to the alleged unwillingness and/or cunning to forego the use of condoms during consensual sexual relations. I suggest you read the police interviews, or some of the extensive discussions we have had here, to finally get a grasp on what is going on. Any reasonable interpretation of the alleged facts comes to the conclusion that the "rape" allegation (singular form) is absurd. The only possible charge being talked about that is not to do with condoms is even more absurd and not even worth commenting on, IMHO.
Response to reorg (Reply #75)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 07:35 PM
hack89 (36,790 posts)
77. I read the four detailed charges in the arrest warrant
I suggest you you the same - it is a lot worse then you think.
But then the victims are not important to you are they?
Response to hack89 (Reply #77)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 07:38 PM
reorg (3,317 posts)
78. Yawn n/t
Response to reorg (Reply #78)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 07:45 PM
hack89 (36,790 posts)
80. Didn't think you had read them
inconvenient facts I know.
Response to hack89 (Reply #80)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 08:35 PM
reorg (3,317 posts)
81. You already had the last word
I only yawned. Yawn, again.
Response to reorg (Reply #75)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 07:40 PM
hack89 (36,790 posts)
79. Don't you think it is up to the Swedes to decide what consitutes rape
under their laws? Not every country has medieval rape.laws like America. In some countries forced and coerced sex is actually frowned upon.
Response to hack89 (Reply #79)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 08:40 PM
reorg (3,317 posts)
82. No, I don't think it is up to the Swedes to decide
what constitutes rape, just think a second about it before you write, LOL.
If you are interested in what the allegations are actually about, just read the old threads, there are plenty of them around. I'm not interested in constantly repeating myself. Thanks for you attention, anyway, and good bye.
Response to reorg (Reply #82)
Thu Sep 27, 2012, 06:53 AM
hack89 (36,790 posts)
88. I know exactly what the charges are - I have posted them
and watched Assange supporters ignore them. Like you are doing right now.
Response to reorg (Reply #82)
Thu Sep 27, 2012, 07:21 AM
hack89 (36,790 posts)
89. "Unlawful coercion", "Sexual molestation" (twice), "Rape"
Those are the allegations. Only one involves unprotected sex.
Of course you will keep repeating yourself - you don't want to address the actual issues. I doubt even you are willing to go so far as to justify his actions.
Response to reorg (Reply #48)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 04:10 PM
struggle4progress (94,077 posts)
60. Wait, wait! The US has been using its embassies to shoot local folk? Since when?
Do you have a link for this extraordinary claim of yours?
Response to struggle4progress (Reply #60)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 04:46 PM
reorg (3,317 posts)
66. I remember lengthy discussions here
about a certain CIA contractor who was detained in Pakistan because he had shot a number of locals in the open street.
Because he had some kind of diplomatic passport, due to his being employed in a US consulate, it was argued here that he had the right to be let go without punishment.
You are aware that the CIA has offices in pretty much every embassy of the US, no?
Response to reorg (Reply #66)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 07:24 PM
struggle4progress (94,077 posts)
76. That was a strange case. Raymond Davis showed some consular ID, but he never showed embassy ID.
Response to hack89 (Reply #47)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 02:33 PM
AntiFascist (11,061 posts)
52. Correction to the CNN hack:
the concept of political asylum fell out of favor in the Old World because it became abused by embassies providing shelter to common criminals, but diplomatic asylum has become a recognized standard in the New World and is made use of, particularly, due to political turmoil and frequent revolutions in South America. A distinction is therefore made between common criminals and those who face persecution for political crimes. Even the United States has made use of the practice of providing refuge to dissidents in embassies who eventually settle in the United States.
The ICJ is supposed to account for "universal practices" and if a practice occurs in the New World, then it makes sense that 60 years later maybe the Old World would begin to evolve as well. The question is certainly not settled by a case that happened 60 years ago.
Response to AntiFascist (Reply #52)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 03:48 PM
hack89 (36,790 posts)
57. Assange is absolutely the wrong case to advance the cause
most of the world simply sees someone avoiding criminal charges. People like Assange are the reason diplomatic asylum feel out of favor in the first place.
Response to hack89 (Reply #57)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 04:07 PM
AntiFascist (11,061 posts)
58. Regardless of how some people feel about Assange...
this is precisely why Ecuador has called together the conference today:
Response to AntiFascist (Reply #58)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 06:20 PM
hack89 (36,790 posts)
71. I don't read Spanish. nt
Response to struggle4progress (Original post)
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 04:02 PM
harmonicon (12,008 posts)
10. Yep, it can only be that.
Ecuador aren't allowed to do things for their own purposes, or - heaven forbid - to make cases for what they see to be things involving the greater good.
Everything they do has to be about your own pet grievance.
Response to harmonicon (Reply #10)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 04:31 PM
struggle4progress (94,077 posts)
63. Heroic Ecuador defends the natural right of men everywhere to have sex with unconscious women!
Ecuador's president, Rafael Correa, has said ... the case would not in his view constitute criminal behaviour in Latin America ...
Julian Assange sex claims not a crime in Latin America Ecuador president
Jonathan Watts in Guayaquil
guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 22 August 2012 01.27 EDT
The president of Ecuador has dismissed the allegations against Julian Assange by claiming that a man who shares a bed with a woman cannot be accused of rape. Rafael Correa said the accusations would not be considered crimes in '90 to 95 per cent of the planet' and questioned the behaviour and motives of the alleged victims ...
'Sharing a bed cannot lead to rape': Ecuador's president leaps to the defence of Assange
By Nazia Parveen
PUBLISHED: 05:23 EST, 26 August 2012 | UPDATED: 17:27 EST, 26 August 2012
"The other woman wanted to report rape. I gave my testimony to support her story"
... The position with offence 4 is different. This is an allegation of rape. The framework list is ticked for rape. The defence accepts that normally the ticking of a framework list offence box on an EAW would require very little analysis by the court. However they then developed a sophisticated argument that the conduct alleged here would not amount to rape in most European countries. However, what is alleged here is that Mr Assange deliberately consummated sexual intercourse with her by improperly exploiting that she, due to sleep, was in a helpless state. In this country that would amount to rape ...
City of Westminster Magistrates Court (Sitting at Belmarsh Magistrates Court)
The judicial authority in Sweden -v- Julian Paul Assange
Findings of facts and reasons
Response to struggle4progress (Reply #63)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 05:02 PM
reorg (3,317 posts)
68. Fact is
that nobody can cite an example where a similar scenario has led to prosecution over "sexual" misconduct or worse.
Correa just states the obvious.
The woman was miffed that a condom wasn't used, is all, and her anger got worse once she learned that she had not been the only one bedding the big star.
She never said she was "unconscious". She never said she was "asleep". She never objected to the sexual act. She was shocked when she learned that Assange was going to be arrested. She felt run over by the police. I know, I know, things to ignore for some people ...
Response to reorg (Reply #68)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 06:29 PM
struggle4progress (94,077 posts)
72. The actual facts of the case can be determined in the Swedish courts -- but
you are simply wrong to assert that no one has ever been prosecuted on the theory that sex with an unconscious woman constitutes rape: sex with an unconscious woman is, in fact, regarded as rape in many jurisdictions
Evidence isn't at all hard to find. Here's a story from today:
Police: Man Found Having Sex With Unconscious Woman On Philly Road
Posted: Sep 26, 2012 6:42 PM EDT Updated: Sep 26, 2012 6:42 PM EDT
Philadelphia Police arrested a man after they say he was seen having sex with a woman who was unconscious and laying on the road. According to police, 48-year-old Warren Fitts, how is homeless, now faces rape and other charges ...
Response to struggle4progress (Reply #72)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 07:01 PM
reorg (3,317 posts)
74. the sad fact is that Swedish prosecutors are powerless
Last edited Thu Sep 27, 2012, 09:29 PM - Edit history (1)
when it comes to stopping the political persecution of Assange. They depend on the action or non-action of politicians regarding safeguards and guarantees against extradition to the US where Assange is considered an "enemy of the state":
Regarding your laughable attempt to smear Assange once again ... I suggest you take a look at post #68 and actually read it
Response to struggle4progress (Reply #63)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 09:46 PM
harmonicon (12,008 posts)
85. You're actually trying this shit on me?
For your own sake, don't waste your time. You're only making yourself look like a weird creep by constantly harping on about this. I hope you're at least getting paid well, because the humiliation most people would feel for carrying out your actions would be insufferable.
Response to harmonicon (Reply #85)
Thu Sep 27, 2012, 09:07 AM
struggle4progress (94,077 posts)
92. I provided quotes from Correa, one of the women, and the UK magistrate
You provide nothing but a vacuous claim that these quotes are "shit"
Response to struggle4progress (Reply #92)
Thu Sep 27, 2012, 12:28 PM
harmonicon (12,008 posts)
94. Not the quotes, chief, your editorializing.
You state that a country makes decisions based on your bizarre pet project/job and think that that would be their "only" reason for doing things.
Response to struggle4progress (Original post)
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 04:05 PM
MNBrewer (8,462 posts)
11. Mr. Assange's stalker strikes again here in DU.
I clicked on it just to see if "you know who" had posted the OP, and YUP....
Response to MNBrewer (Reply #11)
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 04:14 PM
JDPriestly (57,936 posts)
12. It's quite amazing. Quite an obsession for this person.
Meanwhile I wonder what Assange will say.
Had our government not made such a fuss over Wikileaks, no one would be interested. If our government had just cooled it, no one would care. A lot of people would have ignored the whole deal.
Response to JDPriestly (Reply #12)
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 04:20 PM
AntiFascist (11,061 posts)
13. What is also interesting...
a former British diplomat claims that the UK was pressured by the US to enter the Ecuadorian embassy and arrest Assange. Why, pray tell, would the US do that if this was only about Assange trying to escape Swedish sex crime charges?
Response to AntiFascist (Reply #13)
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 05:04 PM
JDPriestly (57,936 posts)
16. Makes no sense. I think that the national security bureaucracy is just furious because Assange
made them feel like fools. It's just ego and pride.
The national security apparatus needs to get smart enough to deal with the new reality of the internet. There is no way to avoid it. Putting it off probably won't work.
The way they have been handling it invites pranksters to complicate the problems they already have with real spies. They have to learn to deal with pranksters without spending too many resources on them.
Response to JDPriestly (Reply #16)
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 05:13 PM
AntiFascist (11,061 posts)
18. The US investigation against Assange...
is treating Assange as a potential spy, not just a prankster. He is being investigated for potential charges under the espionage act (similar to the foreign Israeli spies who were indicted in 2005) and as a co-conspirator with Bradley Manning for breaking into a secret US database. High-level Democrats, including Feinstein, Biden and Clinton, have all called for his prosecution. This has been taken very seriously.
Response to MNBrewer (Reply #11)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 06:31 PM
struggle4progress (94,077 posts)
73. If you don't like the story, you can always complain to AP or the Washington Post
Response to struggle4progress (Reply #73)
Thu Sep 27, 2012, 09:03 PM
MNBrewer (8,462 posts)
95. I'll continue to point out that you're an Assange Stalker
Response to MNBrewer (Reply #95)
Fri Sep 28, 2012, 09:26 AM
struggle4progress (94,077 posts)
97. I'll point out that no one forces you to read my remarks
Response to struggle4progress (Original post)
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 04:25 PM
cprise (8,445 posts)
14. Desperately clinging to an interpretation of events
that was discredited weeks ago. The UK/US/Sweden "innocent pursuit of justice" is evidently no such thing.
It is the UK forces that have armed agents staking out the Ecuadorian embassy. If I were running Ecuador's government I would try to keep Assange in the news, too, to remind people of the real source of hostility.
If I were you, I'd read some Orwell and ask my boss for a new assignment.
Response to struggle4progress (Original post)
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 04:55 PM
midnight (26,624 posts)
15. K&R This should get interesting...
Response to struggle4progress (Original post)
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 05:16 PM
Matariki (18,775 posts)
19. "embassy hideout"???
was that your addition or is the AP that unprofessional?
Response to Matariki (Reply #19)
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 07:33 PM
struggle4progress (94,077 posts)
Response to struggle4progress (Reply #20)
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 08:25 PM
Matariki (18,775 posts)
21. Yeah, well. I guess AP headline writers are unprofessional idiots then.
Embassy 'hideout'. Sheesh.
Response to struggle4progress (Original post)
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 09:20 PM
struggle4progress (94,077 posts)
23. Foreign Minister Bob Carr has dismissed Julian Assange's attempts to try and address ...
the United Nations via video from his Ecuadorian refuge in London as a "stunt" ...
He has every right to do that but that is a matter between him and Equador," Mr Carr told media.
"I wouldn't think there'd be a great deal of interest in it in what is a legal dispute between Mr Assange and Sweden," Mr Carr told media.
"I wouldn't think there would be any resonance for his case in a UN forum devoted to weightier and more substantial matters than the desire of Sweden to have him answer questions in Sweden about allegations of a criminal matter'' ...
WikiLeaks' Assange to address UN on asylum
Simon Benson in New York
News Limited Network
September 26, 2012 8:36AM
Response to struggle4progress (Reply #23)
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 10:39 PM
Matilda (6,228 posts)
26. Mr Carr is very selective in choosing whom to help.
When an attractive young female lawyer was captured in Libya while working for the ICC, he took immediate action to secure her release. There was nothing about "it's between Ms Taylor and the ICC", which would be the exact correlation between Julian Assange and Ecuador, or Assange and Sweden.
The real difference was that Melinda Taylor hadn't pissed off the United States, so she deserved diplomatic assistance from Australia.
Response to Matilda (Reply #26)
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 10:57 PM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
27. "Assange refused offer of assistance from Australia"
Response to msanthrope (Reply #27)
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 11:18 PM
Matilda (6,228 posts)
29. So "they" say.
Wouldn't take their word on anything - government support has been notably lacking in all their public announcements on the matter.
And I wouldn't trust Bob Carr as far as I could kick him. As NSW premier, he ran the state infrastructure into the ground, and got out just before the shit hit the fan.
Response to Matilda (Reply #29)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 07:13 AM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
41. Well, if they are all against him, why is he complaining about their lack of help?
Seems puerile of Assange.
Response to Matilda (Reply #26)
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 11:48 PM
struggle4progress (94,077 posts)
30. Carr details Assange consular help
Updated Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:22pm AEST
Foreign Affairs Minister Bob Carr has released a list of when Australian consular officials contacted WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange ...
Response to struggle4progress (Reply #30)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 02:34 AM
Matilda (6,228 posts)
35. That 'list" is not proof of diplomatic assistance.
A phone call saying, "G'day, Julian, how are you today?" can be put on a list, but it's meaningless.
There is no record of Australian requests to Sweden that Assange will not be extradited to the U.S., nor of any requests to the U.S. along the same lines.
Neither has the government ever given public support to Assange, or done anything other than declare that he has acted illegally in regard to Wikileaks, which is simply a falsehood.
In the case of Melinda Taylor, the public was given day to day briefings on what was happening to secure her realease. Bob Carr's lists are meaningless unless they're backed up by diplomatic actions.
Response to Matilda (Reply #35)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 04:41 PM
struggle4progress (94,077 posts)
65. "... Since he was arrested in the UK in December 2010 he has been visited by consular officials,
they have in turn facilitated a visit for family members, two consular officials have been present at each of Mr Assange's court appearances in London. On the day of his release on bail consular officials made contact with his lawyers ..."
Fed Govt defends its consular assistance to Assange
Meredith Griffiths reported this story on Thursday, May 31, 2012 18:51:00
Response to struggle4progress (Original post)
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 09:32 PM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
25. I bet he wears a "Free the Malvinas" t-shirt for his speech. nt
Response to msanthrope (Reply #25)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 12:08 AM
grantcart (43,704 posts)
32. that's Argentina not Ecuador
Response to grantcart (Reply #32)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 07:12 AM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
40. If you read the OP, there's a story about Assange trying to get Argentinian support.
Respectfully, I suggest that more effective critique might be rendered if you take the time to read the OP.
Response to struggle4progress (Original post)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 12:09 AM
grantcart (43,704 posts)
33. Will you be giving a heads up so everyone can tune in?
Response to struggle4progress (Original post)
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 05:31 PM
reorg (3,317 posts)
69. http://rt.com/on-air/un-general-assembly-live/
Response to struggle4progress (Original post)
Thu Sep 27, 2012, 02:33 AM
cemaphonic (3,564 posts)
87. Videolink? He's not even trying anymore
I had such hopes of him wandering out to his balcony every few weeks to harangue the locals, turning over the years and decades into a beloved local fixture.
But he's just going through the motions, while Ecuador's UK mission tries to pawn him off on their counterparts in Sweden. I think this whole drama is coming to a close soon.
Response to struggle4progress (Original post)
Thu Sep 27, 2012, 08:22 AM
roody (10,139 posts)
90. "This can only be understood..."!?
This can be understood in many ways.

subset: commoncrawl


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|July 26, 2000, 11:17 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: June 8, 1999
Location: Tucson, Arizona Territory
Posts: 715
I joined a bullseye league only to have my 1911 take a dump on me. It is currently on it's way back to the factory to get fixed, but now I am in need of a gun to shoot center fire. My other choices are a Smith and Wussy model 13 with a 3" barrel. All my other small caliber revolvers are under 3" barrel length. I do not want to use any of my other semi-auto's, since these are set up for defense and action shooting. I do not work well in terms of cutting a 10 ring at 25 yards with them.
This what I have, a Ruger Vaquero 4" barrel and an old Interarms Virginian Dragoon (great looking gun) with a 5" barrel. I started to work loads with for these guys using lead 200 RNFP, and Clays (4.5 grains to 6.5) to see if any of these loads will preform like I wish. Money is tight this month or I would have tried other bullet weights and styles. Does anyone have a suggestion on how to squeeze better accuracy given what I have on hand?
Or just do the best I can and take the ribbing on not being able to hit the broad side of a barn? Thanks.
Joe Portale
Tucson, Arizona Territory
"Those who turn their swords into plow shears,
end up plowing the fields of those who didn't"
Thomas Jefferson
|July 26, 2000, 05:44 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: November 17, 1999
Location: NW Wi
Posts: 591
7.5 gns hp-38 and Magnus 200 gn lrnfp have been very accurate in more than a couple of ruger 45 colts shot through (including vaquero). Approximately 880 fps, but will shoot lowere than the 250 lead loads. Nice light shooting and accurate. Sorry, but no experience with clays.
|July 27, 2000, 07:46 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: July 26, 1999
Location: Georgia
Posts: 362
Are you casting or buying your bullets? If you are pouring your own that would give you several areas to experiment with (hardness, sizing, and brand of lube for example). What about trying a different primer. Do you have a place that will sell single trays of primers? It would mean spending money, but a single tray shouldn't be more than about $2. Of course you might wind up wanting to buy a whole box of new primers, but at least you will know what your gun prefers when you are able to buy them. Have you tried different seating depths? What about more or less crimp or changing type of crimp (roll vs. taper depending on what dies you have available to you)?
Ain't reloading great! You always NEED to go do more shooting!
[This message has been edited by Jack Straw (edited July 27, 2000).]
|July 29, 2000, 06:43 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: February 20, 1999
Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country)
Posts: 14,270
Suggest a slightly heavier bullet (250-300g) and W231 or Universal Clays.
Trim your cases to uniform length and.......
......finish using a Redding Profile Crimp die.
"All my ammo is factory ammo"
|July 29, 2000, 06:14 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: December 6, 1998
Location: mytown,mi,usa
Posts: 162
I just got a 5.5" ruger Vaq in 45lc. Starting to work on loads I shot 6.1 gr of titegroup, Hogdgon min start for cowboy shooting, and 3 bullets. At 50' indoor range over a carpet rest the 185gr star lead hp grouped 2.05" for 10 shots. A 190 lrn shot into 1.1". A 225 lead flat point shot into .72". This trend shows that either the gun likes heavier bullets or I should boost the powder under the lighter bullets.
The .72" group is as good as my Colt gold cup will do on a ransom rest.
Thumbing that baby in NRA rapid fire will be a real chore. Good luck
|July 30, 2000, 12:23 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: April 18, 2000
Location: Seattle/Tacoma, WA USA
Posts: 345
I'm not sure how to convert group size for distance without my trig book handy, but I shot a 5 shot, 5/16" group at 30 feet (indoors) off a plastic rest, with my 5 1/2" Blackhawk.
This was with 9grs of Ramshot True Blue powder, Oregon Trail 250gr LRNFP bullets, Starline brass, and WLP primers. It was my first test of True Blue, and on a 4 bull target, after zeroing with the first, I shot two 1/2" groups and then the one above. Considering the poor lighting at our indoor range, and my aging eyesight, I thought that was pretty fair.
Chorographed this load outdoors at 877 fps, with a SD and ES, that I still don't believe! I'm going to check it again to verify.
|August 21, 2000, 07:25 PM
Junior Member
Join Date: August 19, 2000
Location: Miami, Florida, USA
Posts: 4
I have had good luck and mild recoil with a load of 5.8gr W231 behind a 250gr SWC using a Winchester Large Pistol primer. Group size for my Ruger Vequero was 2.5 inch at 25 yards. Not the sub MOA some other people listed but acceptable accuracy for Cowboy Action Shooting. Did not chronograph the load.
|August 21, 2000, 08:14 PM
Join Date: July 24, 2000
Location: Ohio
Posts: 36
I recently compared two different .45 Colt loads with Laser-Cast 200 grain RNFP bullets: 4.7 grains of Hodgdon Clays and 5.5 grains of Titegroup. I like Clays because I think it's a little cleaner than other powders. Using a Ruger Blackhawk, the Titegroup shot 2.5" groups at 25 yards (from a rest). The Clays was much worse – greater than 6". Per the Laser-Cast reloading manual, velocity is 743fps for the Titegroup and 661fps for the Clays.
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text:
Equitrans, L. P.
Original Volume No. 1
Contents / Previous / Next / Main Tariff Index
Effective Date: 05/16/2010, Docket: RP10-616-000, Status: Effective
First Revised Sheet No. 458 First Revised Sheet No. 458
Superseding: Original Sheet No. 458
EXHIBIT A (Continued)
Maximum Daily Injection Quantity : ____________ Dth
Maximum Daily Withdrawal Quantity: ____________ Dth
Total Annual Storage Quantity : ____________ Dth
Retainage Factor applied to Storage Injection as set forth on Statement of
Retainage Factors of Equitrans' FERC Gas Tariff.
Section 2 Receipt Point(s)
Primary Receipt Point(s) and Effective Date(s) MDQ Allocation
Secondary Receipt Point(s)
Customer may nominate service up to its MDQ on a secondary, capacity-available
basis at any receipt points on the Equitrans system. Service at a secondary
point will be scheduled in accordance with Section 8 of the General Terms and
Conditions of Equitrans' FERC Gas Tariff.
* Receipt point MDQ's do not include quantities required for retainage.
A. Effective Date*: _______________________________
B. Supersedes Section 2, Exhibit A Effective: _________________________
Section 3 Delivery Point(s)
Primary Delivery Point(s) and Effective Date(s) MDQ Allocation
A. Effective Date*: _______________________________
B. Supersedes Section 3, Exhibit A Effective: ____________________________
Section 4 Term
Effective Date of this Agreement: from __________________, to_______________.
Firm or Recallable Basis: _________________.


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New Sony and Philips Players Break Price/Performance Barrier
One of Sony's new line of versatile, affordable machines, the DVP-S9000ES, is the company's first combination Super Audio CD/DVD player. The DVP-S9000ES will also play standard CDs, CD-Rs, and DVD-Rs. A dual-laser optical system ensures compatibility with all existing formats. No mention is made in Sony's official announcement of DVD-Audio, whose rollout is still bogged down in copyright-protection issues. SACD is the high-resolution digital audio format developed by Sony and longtime partner Philips as the successor to the standard CD.
Due at dealers in November, the DVP-S9000ES carries a suggested retail price of only $1500. The machine should whet the appetites of audiophiles eager to try SACD but reluctant to pay for Sony's much more expensive early-generation SACD players.
Superb audio performance is only one attraction of the new player, however. Movie fans will be happy to know that the DVP-S9000ES also outputs both interlaced and 480-line progressive-scan video signals, and has proprietary image-processing circuitry to minimize motion artifacts and field color flutter. A 12-bit, 54MHz video D/A converter offers unexcelled picture quality, according to Vic Pacor, president of the Sony Home Network Products Group. The player can be calibrated for individual DVDs, and optimized for material that originated on film rather than on videotape.
Sony has also introduced the industry's first SACD 5-disc changer, due in November at about $1200 retail. The SCD-C333ES is said to "incorporate many of the resident technologies found in Sony's 'reference standard' SCD-1 and SCD-777ES, such as a Direct Stream Digital® (DSD) decoder, current pulse D/A converter, and 24-bit variable coefficient filters." The changer has both optical and coaxial digital outputs and a newly developed single-lens pickup with twin laser optics for compatibility with SACDs and standard CDs. A frame-and-plate chassis and rigid aluminum faceplate are said to minimize the deleterious effects of vibration.
Rounding out Sony's new hardware line are two compact DVD/CD "mega-changers," each with a 300-disc capacity. Claimed to be "40% smaller" than current mega-changers, the DVP-CS860 and DVP-CS870D will also ship in November, priced at $599 and $799, respectively. The two machines will play DVD movies and standard CDs, but not SACDs. The DVP-CS870D includes inboard decoding for Dolby Digital and DTS surround sound. A "disc explorer management system" is said to make storing, cataloging, and accessing a movie-and-music collection an easy task.
Not to be outdone, Philips Consumer Electronics has debuted a multichannel SACD player with DVD-Video functionality. The SACD1000 will play SACDs, DVD-Vs, VCDs (Video Compact Discs, a format originally known as CD-V, common in Asia and popular with some video hobbyists), CD-Rs, and CD-RWs. Supported datastream formats include DSD, PCM, MPEG2, AC-3, and DTS. "We are very excited by the sound quality offered by SACD," said Frank Pauli, general manager and VP of Philips Disc Systems. "Everybody who hears the pure and realistic sound quality that SACD delivers is captivated. Our SACD player will have six-channel output and will include DVD-Video, which we believe will be a very attractive combination for everybody who likes to enjoy the best in sound and video." Due at the end of this year, the SACD1000 will retail at approximately $2000.


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A Nassawadox man drowned while trying to retrieve his car keys, Virginia State Police said.
State police Sgt. Michelle Anaya says 30-year-old Troy Sental Tankard entered the water at a fishing pier in Wardtown in Northampton County and didn't resurface.
Tankard's car keys had been thrown into the water earlier with wet clothing, Anaya. He was trying to retrieve the keys when he drowned.
The incident occurred early Monday morning. Tankard's body was recovered around 8:55 a.m. Monday 20 feet from the pier.
Anaya says no foul play is suspected and the incident is being treated as an accidental drowning.
Published at 4:51 PM EDT on Apr 14, 2014


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" Brand: Summer Infant / Type: Thermometers "
* Prices may differ from that shown
Review written by my husband...
When we had our daughter Mrs B and I decided we needed to buy a decent thermometer especially with all of the swine flu scares that were going around at the time. We had heard that typical 'on forehead' thermomters that people often use for babies are unreliable so we opted for a more expensive one.
We chose this 'grow with me' thermometer as it was £30 and we did our usual "Oh it's expensive, it must be worth it!" thing. The staff in John Lewis' did also recommend it against a cheaper version so we thought it would be a good buy.
The thermometer has some very useful features. For a start it stores the past 5 readings so if you can't remember what the last ones were you can have it saved within the thermometer. This is useful to see how the temperature has progressed over time so is a useful comparison.
The nozzle also is useful as it pops off to make it smaller for little babies' ears this makes it possible to be used in little babies as well as toddlers, children and adults alike.
It only takes a matter of seconds to work. You simply turn it on, put it in the ear and press the top button which means it's ready to go. A few seconds later it will beep. It will be a continuous beep if it's above normal or just a standard one beep if it's normal. The temperature displays on the screen and is lit up green for normal, red for high/low. This is easy to read even in low light as it's lit up well.
The thermometer looks quite sleek and is easy to hold as it's tall and slim and seems to be moulded to fit the hand well. It is white and blue and looks more interesting than a standard thermometer which is useful when babies are involved and you're trying not to scare them.
When reading the above you must be thinking why only one star then? It sounds useful, different, easy to use and it looks good. In theory yes but in reality no.
We have been majorly disappointed by this purchase and I think it was the biggest waste of £30 we have ever spent especially on something which you rely on.
Firstly the thermometer battery life appears to be none. We used it a few times and it kept turning off half way through. I wasn't sure if we were doing something wrong- perhaps we were possibly pressing the off button and not the ready button? Sometimes when trying to turn it on it just wouldn't turn on and we had to keep pressing the button down really hard, we'd try holding it down for longer, everything and there was no consistency, sometimes it would turn on, other times it would just remain blank.
When we have eventually got the thermometer to turn on it has then not been at all reliable in taking an accurate temperature. Fortunately over the last few months Baby B hasn't been too poorly so even when we have tried to use this we've not really taken much notice of the reading which constantly seems to say she is 33 degrees when know that that is so low it's not accurate.
However, on Wednesday this week our baby suddenly became very ill. She was burning up and constantly being sick. We spent a good five minutes trying to turn the thermometer on whilst the baby was crying and Mrs B panicking. The last thing you want in this situation is to be struggling to turn a machine on!
Once on it turned off again immediately. After a few more attempts we managed to get it to stay on long enough to go in the baby's ear and press the button. This was all well and good but when the thermometer just gave a single beep and was showing up green we thought it was quite strange as our baby didn't look at all well. It came back as 36 which is perfectly normal and well. we took it a further five times and it still came up as normal.
Our baby then started to be unresponsive and we rushed her to the doctor's who took her temperature and it turned out it was 40+ and we were admitted straight to hospital with an extremely poorly baby.
I cannot believe that we have spent £30 on a product which would have been so useful, instead we wasted a good ten minutes trying to work it and then just getting an inaccurate result and had to waste time and rush to hospital in the end.
The thermometer seems to be so geared up to do fancy things like recording the last readings and having different beeps for different things that it lacks all the basics- to be able to actually work.
Unfortunately this thermometer was bought several months ago so we can no longer take it back and get our money back but I will be writing to John Lewis' and telling them of the design fault and I do hope that this review saves you from buying into this product too.
All I can say is the more expensive item isn't always the best! A complete waste of time and money which cost us valuable time when our baby was extremely ill.
My mother bought this as a gift for me when my daughter was born but it is selling for £24.95 on Amazon. I found it to be an essential tool to have in my medicine cabinet and one of the most useful gifts I recieved when my daughter was born.
The thermometer itself has a screen about an inch wide that displays the temperature. If your child or an adult has a fever it will beep and flash red otherwise it will stay green. There are two buttons on top and on the bottom of this screen which turn it on and the other starts it. You press start when it is actually in your ear for an accurate read.
By holding down the start key you can also change the way it reads, whether if be Celsius or Farenheit. I use Celsius but my mother can read Farenheit best so this was a great feature for us to be able to choose.
There is a blue tip on the top where you insert in your ear and this is to be kept on if your reading a babies temperature. However if your reading and adult or a toddler this should be removed. I can see that it could be easily lost as there is no way of storing this lid but luckily I havent had to take mine off as my daughter is still very young.


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CHARGE ME, BABY: With all the devices we have in our lives, there has to be an easier way to keep them all juiced up; and there is. Case in point, these mini charging stations. Organize your cell phone, camera, MP3 and any other essentials in one place, and you'll never get angry at tangled cords again. GET IT: $9.99; Online at World Market.
Published at 8:21 AM CDT on Aug 11, 2010 | Updated at 8:30 AM CDT on Aug 11, 2010


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BENGALS WR: It was a nice run, but Terrell Owens� season is over after he tore his meniscus on the first series Sunday. Without Owens available Andre Caldwell will jump into the starting lineup; and both Jordan Shipley and Jerome Simpson will move up a notch on the depth chart as well. Beware though, the Bengals face San Diego and Baltimore in their final two weeks, so none of these guys will be very good fantasy options.
BILLS WR: Lee Evans, who missed the first game of his career Sunday, was placed on the IR earlier in the week and was replaced in the starting lineup by David Nelson. While Steve Johnson is still clearly the top dog in Buffalo, Nelson got it done by scoring the game�s first touchdown and finishing with three catches and 61 yards. If you hadn�t noticed, Nelson has scored in each of the last three games. You can do worse.
BRONCOS QB: Is it just me, or do you find it strange that around the same time Brett Favre�s streak � and maybe his career � ended that the media found another quarterback they can slurp? Tim Tebow became the new Denver starter behind center, and he played acceptably, throwing for one score and running for another on a nifty 40-yarder. The Broncos may have lost, but they also may have found a new quarterback, despite a decent season from Kyle Orton, who missed the game with sore ribs.
BRONCOS RB: Knowshon Moreno took a shot to his side and left Sunday�s game early, giving Lance Ball a chance to see extended action for the first time. Unfortunately, Ball couldn�t take advantage of the opportunity, gaining just 20 yards on 15 carries. If Moreno has to miss any time, expect the veteran Correll Buckhalter to take some of those carries off Ball�s plate.
CHARGERS WR: Wide receivers keep dropping in San Diego, but most of them keep coming back. Legedu Naanee returned from a one-game and started Thursday�s game thanks to Malcom Floyd�s hamstring injury, but unfortunately he was not targeted in the Chargers� blowout victory. Vincent Jackson showed he still has a connection with Philip Rivers and caught three touchdown passes, giving fantasy owners who held onto him all season a reason to smile. They might all be healthy this weekend, but Jackson is the one you want to have right now.
CHARGERS TE: Randy McMichael has been starting in place of the injured Antonio Gates for the last couple of weeks, but the news out of San Diego this week was that Gates might not play again during the regular season. That�s obviously a huge blow to his owners, many of whom could rightfully refer to him as their team�s MVP. McMichael is an acceptable substitute, but he obviously isn�t going to give you the same production as Gates.
CHIEFS QB: Matt Cassel, who reportedly did not look good in warm-ups, made a go of it Sunday with the Chiefs� season on the line and led them to a 27-13 win, less than two weeks after an emergency appendectomy. He did not have a spectacular day and might still not be 100 percent, but the prospect of watching Brodie Croyle play in his place might have had something to do with the decision. It looks like Cassel is good to go for the Chiefs, who will clinch the AFC West with two more victories.
COLTS WR: Austin Collie�s return was short-lived, but he made it worth the wait. After sitting out three games with a concussion, Collie was back in the starting lineup Sunday; and he managed to find paydirt twice�before leaving with another concussion. That�s at least two or three concussions for Collie this year, so it would not be a surprise if he is out for the season. Once again, Blair White will see an uptick in playing time, and the inconsistent Pierre Garcon should also see a few more balls thrown his way as well
COWBOYS WR: Roy Williams joined Dez Bryant on the sidelines Sunday, but his presence wasn�t missed nearly as much as Bryant�s. Sam Hurd took Williams� place and caught four passes for 35 yards. Miles Austin had another quiet game, though at least he found the end zone. The real beneficiary of the injuries to Williams and Bryant has been tight end Jason Witten, who was a monster again on Sunday with 10 catches for 140 yards.
GIANTS WR: Steven Smith is scheduled to have microfracture surgery on his knee, so his season is over. With Smith out, Mario Manningham again picked up the slack in a big way. Manningham didn�t do much as the top receiver when Smith and Hakeem Nicks were out; but in Week 15, despite Nicks being back, Manningham had the game of his life: eight catches, 113 yards and two scores. Derek Hagan actually got the start in Smith�s place Sunday and was targeted six times, but it�s clear that Manningham benefits most from Smith�s absence.
PACKERS QB: Matt Flynn started Sunday�s game in place of Aaron Rodgers, who was out with a concussion. Flynn certainly looked better Sunday against the formidable Patriots than he did in relief of Rodgers the week before against a Lions team with a lot less victories. A week of practice with the first string obviously helped Flynn, but he still made a few costly errors that reflected his inexperience. Overall, Flynn finished with 247 yards and three scores against New England, so he was actually pretty good from a fantasy standpoint. The Packers have to possess some confidence in Flynn following Sunday�s game, but they will certainly welcome Rodgers back this week if he is cleared to play.
REDSKINS QB: Although the Vikings have the trophy locked up in the �Most Bizarre Season� category, the Redskins are a close second. Just weeks after signing Donovan McNabb to a big extension, which came just days after his bizarre benching for Rex Grossman in the waning moments of a close game, the Redskins decided to go with Grossman against their biggest rival, Dallas. Grossman threw for 322 yards and four touchdowns and brought his team back from a 30-14 deficit, but Washington ultimately lost 33-30. There is obviously a disagreement between head coach Mike Shanahan and owner Daniel Snyder when it comes to game-day decisions (Shanahan) and who signs the checks (Snyder).
SAINTS RB: Chris Ivory was a game-time decision, but he was ultimately was held out of Sunday�s game with a hamstring injury. The Ravens� defense held the rest of the Saints� rushing offense in check. Starter Pierre Thomas had just six carries for 20 yards, and Julius Jones and Reggie Bush combined for just seven yards on eight carries. Bush did make a mark in the passing game, garnering seven receptions, but overall it was a day to forget. If Ivory returns for Week 16, the Saints will have some decisions to make.
SEAHAWKS WR: Although Seattle�s receiving corps remains a mess, at least Mike Williams (ankle) and Ben Obomanu (hand) were able to return on Sunday. Williams caught eight passes for 66 yards, but Obomanu was very quiet with just one catch for seven yards. Brandon Stokley was the only other Seattle wideout to catch a pass, and he caught just one. We hope you didn�t run out and pick up Ruvell Martin after last week�s game because he wasn�t even targeted.
VIKINGS QB: Tarvaris Jackson was placed on IR with a turf toe injury and Brett Favre has already been ruled out for Monday�s game, so the Vikings will turn to Joe Webb, a player who only a few weeks ago was listed as a wide receiver on the Minnesota roster. He will hardly be in the ideal situation for a first start (if one exists) against a stiff Bears defense in snowy conditions.


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So, the game we've been telling you about since before it even had a name is out now for Mac, PC, and Linux, and it looks as good as the developers promised. It's a sequel to Anomaly Warzone Earth, originally released on iOS, and it will only cost you $13.49 for the first week after launch. You can grab it on Steam, or Anomaly2Game should you so desire. And really, it's a pretty desirable game.
Warsaw, Poland-based 11 bit studios kicked things off last February when they announced a mystery game that you could purchase before you even knew what it was, and then announced the name of the game not too long after.
Well, here we are, and there it is, ready for you to grab for less than a decently sized pizza at 10 percent off the eventual retail price of $15.
This new tower offense / tower defense game makes the jump to Mac and other computers from iOS, bringing along some great gameplay. You'll be fighting off a new horde of aliens who have overrun the Earth, itself a cold and barren planet in the wake of the invasion. Humanity is almost extinct, and its up to you, your wits, and your strategic thinking to save the world for the surviving members of the human race, using new morphing mech units, power ups, and a ton of bad-ass vehicles.
When you tire of the single player campaign, you can switch to one-on-on multiplayer battles and choose the heroic offense or the evil alien defense (or is it the other way around?), blasting your buddies or defending against them. Whichever side you choose, you'll have a ton of fun with this gorgeous game.
Source: Anomaly 2


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Italian Restaurant or going for coffee or meeting for a drink
Doing something fun and exciting not just going to a movie where wd cant talk and communicate.
Somewhere cute where we could cuddle and just be ourselfs that's all that matters ❤
Honestly it's a thought that counts and I'll appreciate anything you do.
Gosh. Anything but the movies.
First date ideas, I tend to take it back a decade or two. I'd invite you over to my apartment and cook for you. Possibly watch some movies or if not, talk all night. Meaningful conversations go a long way.
Grillin nd chillin at the house or on the beach or lake. truethfully whay ever sheto to do.
Cuz shes the boss. Lol
The scenery doesn't really matter....it's the substance that counts
Depends!!!! Could be dinner , beach at night.... Snuggle, spooning , touching...,
Somewhere out where we can have fun.
Everything that is fun under the sun
1) Going to the beach.. Walking in the sand getting to know each other and if we are connecting then maybe laying in the grass looking at the stars.
2) dinner and/or movie
3) hookah lounge lol
4) anything fun
be on a park for a picknic in a cool warm relaxed environment that relaxes the mind
As long as we are having fun, who cares. Just my opinion.
LargeFriends does not conduct background checks on the members of this website.


text:
From Clean Energy for Us:
ASHEVILLE – Clean Energy For Us, a local program that makes the adoption of solar power and energy efficiency upgrades cheaper and easier, will present a free educational workshop on March 26 from 6 – 7:30 p.m. at the Mill Room, 66 Asheland Avenue. The event will give the public an opportunity to learn more about the program.
"Last fall we launched Solarize Asheville, a pilot program that resulted in 51 area homeowners adopting solar power," said Katie Bray, program director. "But not everyone can afford solar power, so we added energy efficiency to the mix and opened the program up to everyone in Buncombe County."
The Western North Carolina Alliance and the Southern Alliance for Clean Energy serve as the campaign's non-profit partners and the local Self-Help Credit Union will provide financing for those who need it.
Clean Energy For Us – Buncombe features a free energy audit for homeowners, businesses, non-profits, schools, and worship centers in the county for those signing up before the March 31 deadline. If people then decide to adopt solar or make energy efficiency upgrades after the energy audit, they can contract with one of the program's chosen local, independent contractors at a discounted price.
"It makes sense for people to take action now rather than later," said Bray. "We don't know how long the state's solar tax incentives will last, and Duke Energy's CEO recently announced that she expects customers to foot the bill for the company's coal ash pollution cleanup. So, yeah, it's an excellent time for people to decrease their reliance on dirty energy."
The March 26 educational workshop at the Mill Room will feature the following speakers and topics:
Katie Bray, program director ("Welcome and Program Description");
Jennifer Rennicks, director of policy and communication, Southern Alliance for Clean Energy ("Fossil Fuel Energy and Climate");
Marcus Renner, owner, Conservation Pros ("Efficiency 101");
Phelps Clarke of Sugar Hollow Solar, Nate Pembleton of Asheville Solar Company and Alan Watts of Renewable Design Associates ("The Solar Process");
Jane Hatley, WNC regional director, Self Help Credit Union ("Clean Energy is Affordable");
Question & Answer period.