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Rationality Quotes: June 2011
Y'all know the rules:
- Please post all quotes separately, so that they can be voted up/down separately. (If they are strongly related, reply to your own comments. If strongly ordered, then go ahead and post them together.)
- Do not quote yourself.
- Do not quote comments/posts on LW/OB.
- No more than 5 quotes per person per monthly thread, please.
Comments (470)
"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness."
--George Santayana, Quoted by Carl Sagan in Contact, Chapter 14 "Harmonic Oscillator", page 231
To reply in reverse order - I see how it's relevant to skepticism because people are quick to believe any old thing that feels truthy to them. But there are some things you actually can put your trust in. Things that have been born out over centuries to get us closer and closer to true knowledge, things that produce real results. Things such as empiricism. You can eventually come to trust empiricism, rationality, the experimental method. You don't have to remain forever entirely skeptical of everything. In that sense it's a decent metaphor to compare it to a (good) long-term relationship - that building of trust by experience until it is simply natural and implicit.
I would consider it a fetish because it will make anyone out of their teens seek age-inappropriate partners. If you're in your thirties or later and you are seeking sexual congress with a virgin then you are looking for someone with the sexual maturity of someone a lot younger than you, regardless of that person's chronological age. Fetishes aren't inherently bad of course, there's lots of great ones out there. :) But this one often serves to either A) degrade non-teen women who aren't emotionally stunted, or B) cause people to severely stunt their own emotional growth to fulfill some future partner's fetish. Both of those seem to be bad things to me, and thus my disapproving words.
But he isn't recommending preferring chastity in others, but rather being chaste ourselves until we have a "ripeness of instinct and discretion" (i.e. have attained maturity).
This definition of chastity includes not just virgins but everyone who shows discretion in choosing sex partners, and doesn't accept the "first comer".
What, in this metaphor, corresponds to fidelity and happiness in the way that skepticism corresponds to chastity? Is Santayana's idea that we should search long for The Answer, but having found it, we should turn off our skepticism, stop thinking, and sink into the warm fuzzies of faith? It reminds me of the sea squirt that eats its own brain when it has found a comfortable spot to live and no longer needs it.
Justice, for instance. Can one person be reliably counted upon to measure how much justice he or she has received? Probably not. But political processes do work out various means for delivering more or less justice. These means appear to have something to do with the demands of various people. The market analogy is of course not perfect.
I argued earlier that the only circumstances under which it should be morally acceptable to impose a particular way of thinking on children, is when the result will be that later in life they come to hold beliefs that they would have chosen anyway, no matter what alternative beliefs they were exposed to. And what I am now saying is that science is the one way of thinking — maybe the only one — that passes this test. There is a fundamental asymmetry between science and everything else.
- Nicholas Humphrey, What Shall We Tell the Children?
Sorry for length, but this a nice sketch on the role of rationality in science :)
A glossary for research reports
Scientific term (Actual meaning)
It has long been known that. . . . (I haven't bothered to look up the original reference)
. . . of great theoretical and practical importance (. . . interesting to me)
While it has not been possible to provide definite answers to these questions . . . (The experiments didn't work out, but I figured I could at least get a publication out of it)
The W-Pb system was chosen as especially suitable to show the predicted behaviour. . . . (The fellow in the next lab had some already made up)
High-purity || Very high purity || Extremely high purity || Super-purity || Spectroscopically pure . . . (Composition unknown except for the exaggerated claims of the supplier)
A fiducial reference line . . . (A scratch)
Three of the samples were chosen for detailed study . . . (The results on the others didn't make sense and were ignored)
. . . accidentally strained during mounting (. . . dropped on the floor)
. . . handled with extreme care throughout the experiments (. . . not dropped on the floor)
Typical results are shown . . . (The best results are shown)
Although some detail has been lost in reproduction, it is clear from the original micrograph that . . . (It is impossible to tell from the micrograph)
Presumably at longer times . . . (I didn't take time to find out)
The agreement with the predicted curve is excellent (fair) || good (poor) || satisfactory (doubtful) || fair (imaginary) || . . as good as could be expected (non-existent)
These results will be reported at a later date (I might possibly get around to this sometime)
The most reliable values are those of Jones (He was a student of mine)
It is suggested that || It is believed that || It may be that . . . (I think)
It is generally believed that . . . (A couple of other guys think so too)
It might be argued that . . . (I have such a good answer to this objection that I shall now raise it)
It is clear that much additional work will be required before a complete understanding . . . (I don't understand it)
Unfortunately, a quantitative theory to account for these effects has not been formulated (Neither does anybody else)
Correct within an order of magnitude (Wrong)
It is to be hoped that this work will stimulate further work in the field (This paper isn't very good, but neither are any of the others in this miserable subject)
Thanks are due to Joe Glotz for assistance with the experiments and to John Doe for valuable discussions (Glotz did the work and Doe explained what it meant)
C. D. Graham, Jr., Metal. Progress 71, 75 (1957) (actual source)
It might be argued that . . . (I have such a good answer to this objection that I shall now raise it)
My favorite - I do this all the time.
It is clear that much additional work will be required before a complete understanding . . . (I don't understand it)
Yeah, this one's familiar too. There's a long-ass section in my thesis that basically ends with this. So much data - so little sense.
"I smile and start to count on my fingers: One, people are good. Two, every conflict can be removed. Three, every situation, no matter how complex it initially looks, is exceedingly simple. Four, every situation can be substantially improved; even the sky is not the limit. Five, every person can reach a full life. Six, there is always a win-win solution. Shall I continue to count?" Dr. Eliyahu M. Goldratt 1947- 2011
It might be easier to tell whether this is really a rationality quote or an anti-rationality quote if we had a bit more context. For instance, is Goldratt (or whatever character he's put those words into the mouth of) endorsing those propositions, or listing them as false assumptions someone else is making, or what?
From Countdown to Immortality, by FM-2030:
How will an individual suspended today adjust to life upon reentry in the future?
Time-reentry adjustment will not be a serious problem for the following reasons:
Anyone suspended in these years will probably not have to wait long for reanimation. In act the time will come when long-term suspension will make no sense. Deathcorrection will be quick and therefore catch-up will not be a problem.
People are living longer and longer. Therefore many of the reanimate's friends and acquaintances will be around.
More and more people are signing up for cryonic suspension. When they are eventually brought back, they will find other reanimates from their original time zones.
What if you do not find any familiar faces upon reentry? What of it? You will make new friends. Why not start afresh? Isn't this precisely what tends of millions of people now do when they voluntarily move from one part of the planet to another? In our fluid times many of our friendships and associations are not lifelong and continuous any way.
We humans are remarkably adaptable. In recent decades we have seen entire populations switch eons - from Stone Age to Electronic Age - from the feudal/agrarian world to the industrial and the telespheral. There is no limit to our adaptability.
Entire generations are now born into worlds of real-time acceleration. To them and to all of us rapid realignment is the norm. We are not even aware we are continually desynchronizing.
In the coming decades reanimates may not be the only ones having to readapt. Increasing numbers of people will drop out of our world and start new lives elsewhere in the solar system. Some of these extraterrestrials will come back and may also have to zone in.
In the new century we will learn about Time and Space reentry and devise catch-up skills. For example: rapid updates via onbody computers and audio/visuals - rapid playbacks and overviews via touch-and-enter holospheres - body-attached or brain-implanted decision-assists - automatic information-transfer procedures and so on. We may also have rapid genetic fine-tuning to help returnees improve their concentration - memory - adaptability - learn/unlearn.
Finally in the coming years and decades the world will grow more and more open and friendly. This very day we are outgrowing age-old adversarial barriers: tribalism - racism - classism - sexism - nationalism. The freeflow of people across the planet is speeding up. My projection is that a person suspended in the coming years and reentering decades later will at first have more problems with the relative friendliness and openness of the new century than anything else.
If Simon Baron-Cohen gets his way, a future society could make a certain high level of empathy the norm, with potentially interesting consequences for revived cryonauts.
This reads as a little applause-lighty for my taste, to be honest. It's really easy to claim that the arbiters of social policy are blind to actual suffering, and not much harder to spin that into an appeal for your particular ideology, which by virtue of its construction or unusual purity or definition of "actual suffering" of course doesn't have these problems.
If a quote on policy would be equally at home heading a libertarian or a socialist or an anarcho-primitivist blog, does it really constrain our anticipations about policy to any meaningful extent?
The point isn't to constrain our anticipations about policy; it's to constrain our anticipations about policy-makers. To get actual policy anticipation-control, you need to apply it in a specific context where you know more about the sort of policy the people in question would favour if they (openly) didn't care about actual suffering.
If a quote on policy would be equally at home heading a libertarian or a socialist or an anarcho-primitivist blog, does it really constrain our anticipations about policy to any meaningful extent?
I read it as cautioning us to resist the temptation to unquestioningly accept nice sounding policy as good policy.
Also any quotes that couldn't be read as potentially applicable by a large swath of the political spectrum might trigger blue-green tribalism feelings and kind of defeat the spirit of the no mind killer rule.
If you use it, you had better be prepared to find yourself in the kind of place it takes you to.
Including such destinations as "Not being the unwilling sex toy of the big bald guy while in prison". Although if you also don't use 'fraud' you may find yourself not in jail in the first place - but it's not always so simple. It also leads you to the destination "still having your food, possessions, dignity and social status in your schoolyard despite having no control of whether you wish to be subject to that environment".
I didn't read the quote as a blanket opposition to violence. It's a warning about one thing to consider before you choose violence.
I also didn't read the quote as only being about violence. It also makes a more general point about means and ends. When you're considering an action in pursuit of a goal, you should consider the action in its own right and try to predict where it is likely to lead. Don't settle on an action just because it seems to fit with the goal. This is especially relevant when you consider using violence, coercion, manipulation, or dishonesty for a noble purpose, but it also applies more generally.
Read the (long) linked-to article from which the quote stems. Basically the point is that using violence to achieve a goal teaches the people involved that violence is an effective, legitimate way to achieve goals - and at some later point they will invariably have conflicting goals.
When I try to learn stuff, I sometimes get good results from the opposite approach: instead of doing the hardest thing, do the easiest thing that counts as progress. In other words, instead of grabbing the highest rung I can reach, I grab the rung I can reach comfortably. Then I take my time to absolutely conquer that rung with perfect technique and control, doing many many repetitions. Then move on to the next.
Advantages of this approach: it's easier, less jerky and more methodical, I can spare attention for ironing out any mistakes in the basics... And most importantly, it feels like I have more "momentum". When my workouts or training sessions look like this, random events are much less likely to derail my schedule of leveling up.
But if you put out maximum effort, you can leave longevity and/or quality on the table. Silverbacks, pitchers, office workers, day-to-day-life, running, eating... Short term maximum effort might detract from long-term maximum utility. The cost/benefits analysis is at times subjective. "Utility" can mean different things to different people. "Utility", as I interpret in a Rationalist context has a very specific almost "economic" meaning. But you can choose to reduce effort and not push the envelop, and go home, have dinner, relax, and enjoy your life. Some people might refer to that as utility, others as low hanging fruit, still others as a healthy balance.
"Ahh, there's no such thing as mysterious."
~Strong Bad, from sbemail 140 (Probably not originally intended in a rationalist sense.)
When shall we cross ourselves?
Whenever we are about to perform a good deed, or when we see or feel that we might commit a sin.
- Carlos Gimenez, Barrio (Context: children in a religious institution are answering catechism questions)
This sounds like a great way to prime yourself. Crossing yourself has all the wrong connotations, but a gesture meaning "I choose good." should help in general. (I like the fist-over-heart Battlestar Galactica salute.)
Having a whole set of gestures, along with pithy quotes, should prove even more effective.
I'm new to LW (Well, I've been reading Eliezer's posts in order, and am somewhere in 2008 right now, but I haven't read many of the recent posts) so these may have been posted before. But quote collecting is a hobby of mine and I couldn't pass it up.
"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." – Albert Einstein
"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
I very much dislike Einstein quotes that have nothing to do with physics or mathematics. You don't have to be an Einstein to know a false dichotomy when you see one. What about living your life as if some things are miracles and some things aren't like most people who have ever lived? Surely, if most people have done it, then it is possible.
Also, welcome to Less Wrong.
Well for what it's worth, I don't think he means it literally. Or at least so exactly. My interpretation is that he is saying that you must accept a rational basis and explanation for everything, or believe that nothing can be explained - you must accept that the laws of physics apply to every one and everything, and that there are no mysterious phenomena, or you must deny the laws of physics and believe everything is mystical.
And thanks, it's a great blog. I've learned so much reading Eliezer's work. Well, perhaps learned isn't the best word. Realized may be more appropriate.
I think he's saying that there are only two ways to live consistent with the world as it is, and they are identical except that the second includes the sense of awe or wonder. It's a miracle (a wonder, unexplained) that anything exists at all. Religion that believes only some things are miracles is not either of the ways he supports.
Future possibilities will often resemble today's fiction, just as robots, spaceships, and computers resemble yesterday's fiction. How could it be otherwise? Dramatic new technologies sound like science fiction because science fiction authors, despite their frequent fantasies, aren't blind and have a professional interest in the area.
This may seem too good to be true, but nature (as usual) has not set her limits based on human feelings.
K. Eric Drexler, Engines of Creation Chapter 6
From wikiquote
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
Alternative: "We sleep safely at night because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would harm us."
In his 1945 "Notes on Nationalism", Orwell claimed that the statement, "Those who 'abjure' violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf" was a "grossly obvious" fact.
Notes: allegedly said by George Orwell although there is no evidence that Orwell ever wrote or uttered either of these versions of this idea. They do bear some similarity to comments made in an essay that Orwell wrote on Rudyard Kipling, when quoting from one of his poems. Orwell did write, in his essay on Kipling, that the latter's "grasp of function, of who protects whom, is very sound. He sees clearly that men can only be highly civilized while other men, inevitably less civilized, are there to guard and feed them." (1942)
If you can't think intuitively, you may be able to verify specific factual claims, but you certainly can't think about history.
Well, maybe we can't think about history. Intuition is unreliable. Just because you want to think intelligently about something doesn't mean it's possible to do so.
Jewish Atheist, in reply to Mencius Moldbug
"When he is confronted by the necessity for a decision, even one which may be trivial from a normal standpoint, the obsessive-compulsive person will typically attempt to reach a solution by invoking some rule, principle, or external requirement which might, with some degree of plausibility, provide a "right" answer....If he can find some principle or external requirement which plausibly applies to the situation at hand, the necessity for a decision disappears as such; that is, it becomes transformed into the purely technical problem of applying the correct principle. Thus, if he can remember that it is always sensible to go to the cheapest movie, or "logical" to go to the closest, or good to go to the most educational, the problem resolves to a technical one, simply finding which is the most educational, the closest, or such. In an effort to find such requirements and principles, he will invoke morality, "logic," social custom, and propriety, the rules of "normal" behavior (especially if he is a psychiatric patient), and so on. In short he will try to figure out what he "should" do.
-David Shapiro, Neurotic Styles
Please post anything there might be on how to deal with that. I'm exactly like that, and my rules often break down and then I'm unable to decide.
I've known someone else like that. She made rules about food because it made it easier to decide what to eat.
Could you also post the cites on why "obsessive-compulsive"? Neither I nor the other person have an OCD diagnosis or seem to match the criteria. Any OCD LWers want to chip in?
This quote was written in 1965 by a psychoanalyst, so I don't even know if they had the same diagnostic criteria for Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder that they do today. He's talking about "styles" of behavior. Based on a little searching, it seems to me that a preoccupation with rules is characteristic of what is called Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder. As is so often the case, there's a broad spectrum from quirky behavior to personality disorder.
What makes it a disorder is if it is interferring with your enjoyment of life. It is irrational to choose according to arbitrary rules when doing so makes you miss out on outcomes that are preferable but require you going outside of your rules.
A little searching on the Internet says the treatment for the disorder is talk therapy. It's possible that could work.
I would say first of all you have to recognize when living according to rules is making your life better and when living based on rules is boxing you in. Having rules can make decisions easier, but it can make you miss out on a lot of life. Seek feedback from friends and family members about areas in which you might be too rigid. Make sure you tell them you really want honest feedback. Then take baby steps to break out of routines. Doing so will also build your courage.
Accept that it's OK to make mistakes. Failure is a great source of learning. If you have an attitude that says, "I am going to make mistakes," then you might not feel so much anxiety about making a less-than-optimal choice. (I recommend the book The Pursuit of Perfect by Tal Ben-Shahar. I learned a lot about avoiding perfectionism from that book.)
You might find that something like an improv comedy class makes you more spontaneous and able to see how rules for behavior aren't as fixed as you might think they are. People get by and thrive by doing things totally differently from how you do, and you might like a different way better, if you gave yourself the chance.
Try something that you wouldn't have ever thought you'd do before. See how it doesn't feel that bad. (Again, you might start small: browse through the section of the bookstore where you would normally never be caught dead.)
Be courageous. Be spontaneous. Have fun.
A little searching on the Internet says the treatment for the disorder is talk therapy. It's possible that could work.
talk therapy doesn't work see "House of Cards" by Robyn Dawes. Instead use CBT cognitive behavioral therapy.
The cognitive part is understanding that your rituals/behavior are irrational and the behavioral part is actually acting on that understanding against the subjective pull to do otherwise. Good advice on the latter can be found in the link below, with video:
I seem to have run into a strange inferential distance.
The word "obsessive-compulsive" seems to have suggested the wrong picture. I do not mean rules as impulses to perform stereotyped ritual behaviors.
What I'm trying to describe is a way to handle explicit choices. "Are you coming home this weekend?", "Do I want some chocolate?", "Am I enjoying this movie?". Much (most?) of the time, a simple "yes, good" or "no, bad" gut feeling somehow gets generated with no conscious input. That's a decision.
But some of the time, there's no such gut feeling. Introspection returns "I have no freaking clue what I want.". This is quite distressing, especially when there's pressure to decide immediately.
A known set of rules can thus be useful. "Which movie should I watch?" "ERROR: decision-making system unavailable." "Okay, then let's go with the most educational."
Problems with this approach are absence of relevant rules, bad rules, and inability to access the rule-based decision-making system as well as the emotional reaction-based one.
Someone coming up to me as I agonize and telling me "You don't need rules" is not helping. What do I use instead?
I wonder if it would help for you to try to satisfice. You're not trying to choose the best option, you just have some minimum acceptable standard, and you're trying to pick one of the options (any of the options) that meets that standard. You could pick more-or-less randomly, or you could look for any inclination in favor of one of the options and then go with that one.
For instance, if there are 4 movies that you're trying to choose between, and all 4 seem like movies that you're likely to enjoy, then it doesn't really matter which one you pick. You just need to pick one of them. There are a few ways to do this, some more random, some using more general rules or heuristics which can be used for many different kinds of decisions since they apply to the decision-making process, not the particular content.
Just pick one of the movies. Don't think or try to come up with reasons, just select one. Maybe your selection will be influenced by preferences of yours that you're not aware of, or maybe it'll just be random. Doesn't matter, you picked one.
Decide you're going to pick one, and then wait until something good about one of the options comes to mind and pick that one. It doesn't matter what it is - it could be some good feature that it has, or just a vague feeling.
Pick randomly. Label the options 1-4, look at a clock, and take the minutes mod 4.
Let someone else decide. If you're going to watch the movie with a friend, tell them "any of these 4, you pick." Even if the decision is only for you (e.g., you're going to watch the movie alone), you could still ask someone else to pick (or give a recommendation) if they're around when you're trying to decide. Just ask "what do you think?"
Try to guess what the other person would prefer. If you're going to watch the movie with a friend, ask yourself which of the 4 he would like. Try to do this quickly, with pattern-matching and associations ("this one seems like his kind of movie"), not reasoning. As soon as you have an inclination towards one of the options, go with it.
Try to guess what you would prefer, treating yourself as if you were another person. Ask "which of these would MixedNuts like?" and use pattern-matching and association.
Try to predict your decision. "If MixedNuts had to choose between these movies, I bet he'd go with that one." (Or, based on past behavior in terms of going home for the weekend, and what's scheduled for this weekend, I bet that he will go home this weekend.) Then just do that.
Variety-seeking. See which of the options is something that you haven't done much of in awhile. e.g., I haven't seen many comedies lately, so I'll pick the comedy movie. (Or, I've been going home a lot lately, so I won't go home this weekend.)
Ooo! Good advice is good! Thanks!
Pick one
Pick at random
I do that for decisions that don't matter much (e.g. picking a movie). It's more problematic when I know I will regret picking the wrong one badly.
Wait for a good feeling
Good idea, thanks. Does this work in reverse, with a bad feeling about all other options?
Ask someone else
I do that as much as possible, but it fails more often that not. Polite bastards.
Ask a model of someone else/myself
Predict myself
Seek variety
All good ideas, thanks a lot! (Though variety-seeking contradicts the others, and conflicting rules are Bad.)
Does this work in reverse, with a bad feeling about all other options?
I don't know. If you're feeling stuck, and not particularly motivated to do anything, I generally think that it's good to try to find and feed positive motivations to do something. Avoidance motivations (for rejecting bad options) could just keep you stuck. And we want to keep things simple - one of the keys to all of these procedures is that you just need one option to stand out (positively) for whatever reason - you don't need to go through every option to rule all but one of them out. But if there are only 2 options and you do get a clear feeling against one of them, then maybe it is okay to base your decision on that - it's equally simple (with only two options) and it does get you through this decision. So I wouldn't aim to find a bad feeling, but if that was the first feeling that came up then you could go with it.
Ask someone else
I do that as much as possible, but it fails more often that not. Polite bastards.
You could try alternative ways of getting other people involved. e.g., Have them list the pros and cons of each option, and you listen and see if one thing jumps out at you. Or you could describe the options to them, with instructions for them to try to guess which one you'd. Or maybe just talking about the decision can help you clarify which option you prefer.
Though variety-seeking contradicts the others, and conflicting rules are Bad.
True. You may want to forget about that one if it could interfere with the others. There are ways to integrate it with the others, if you determine ahead of time when it applies. For instance, there may be certain domains where you want variety/balance. Or you may sometimes feel like you're in a rut and want to mix things up, and then you can decide that starting now I'm going to make variety-seeking decisions (until I no longer feel this way). The important thing is that when you're faced with a particular decision, you don't need to decide whether or not to seek variety because you have already determined that.
But variety-seeking is more of an advanced technique which you may want to skip for now. It's probably best to pick one or two of the heuristics which seem like they could work for you and try them out. Over time you can expand your repertoire.
Do you know the book "How we decide" by Jonah Lehrer? In the first chapter, section 3 there is a case of a patient who lost his orbitofrontal cortex (OFC) due to a cancer and suddenly he couldn't make decisions anymore because all emotions where cut off and all choices suddenly became equal in value. So sometimes there are underlying neurological problems that can cause this.
I suggested two alternative dates, both in the coming month and just a few days apart from each other. The patient pulled out his appointment book and began consulting the calendar. The behavior that ensued, which was witnessed by several in vestigators, was remarkable. For the better part of a half hour, the patient enumerated reasons for and against each of the two dates: previous engagements, proximity to other engagements, possible meteorological conditions, virtually anything that one could reasonably think about concerning a simple date. .. . He was now walking us through a tiresome cost-benefit analysis, an endless outlining and fruitless comparison of options and possible consequences. It took enormous discipline to listen to all of this without pounding on the table and telling him to stop.
Yeah, that's what happens. For me it's intermittent, but it does remove all choice-related emotions, so all choices become hard at the same time. As Lehrer says, an explicit cost-benefit analysis is way too long - that's what simple rules are for.
It took enormous discipline to listen to all of this without pounding on the table and telling him to stop.
Oh yeah, cry me a fucking river. This guy has to do that for every single decision, but no, go ahead, whine about having to listen to him make just one.
I'll check the book out, thanks.
For me it's intermittent, but it does remove all choice-related emotions, so all choices become hard at the same time.
This sounds like a symptom of something. Have you noticed whether any other symptoms tend to co-occur with it (especially other things related to mood or emotions)? Have you noticed any other patterns in these episodes (how often it happens, how long it lasts, whether it has any particular triggers, and whether anything in particular tends to trigger its end)? Have you mentioned it to a medical/psychological professional?
This sounds like a symptom of something.
Have you noticed whether any other symptoms tend to co-occur with it (especially other things related to mood or emotions)?
Choice numbness is a special case of emotional numbness is a special case of disconnecting from the world. It comes with akrasia and not-akrasia (a thingy that prevents me from doing stuff I explicitly want to, but doesn't react when I throw willpower at it - like running into an invisible wall in a video game). My field of attention gets restricted (I can only focus on one thing and not very much, objects in the center of my visual field become more interesting, I bump into walls), and my thoughts slow and confused. I crumble completely under any kind of pressure, even more than usually. I have to monitor motor control more finely (like moving a leg with my hand to remind the motor system how to move it, or focusing on a particular point and willing myself there). If there's emotional numbness, my emotions will feel sort of like detached objects.
Have you noticed any other patterns in these episodes (how often it happens, how long it lasts, whether it has any particular triggers, and whether anything in particular tends to trigger its end)?
It happens when I'm dehydrated, tired, lacking balanced amounts of sunshine, at the wrong level of socialization, or at apparently random. The general state tends to last , curing it usually involves a complete reboot (change of context, rest, then sleep), but it can go in and out of choice numbness. Pressure to answer cements it.
Have you mentioned it to a medical/psychological professional?
Nope. I've had horrible luck with psychiatrists and therapists so far, and I expect anything doctor-findable would have been found by now.
For a definition of 'rules' that includes heuristics, and with the further qualification of either 'quickly' or 'without putting a lot of effort into every single decision', that assumption seems pretty accurate to me - it's more that most people are more comfortable making rules of thumb for themselves, or doing semi-arbitrary things in instances where their rules don't provide the answer (and then usually making a new rule of thumb out of the arbitrary decision, if it turns out well). Am I missing something?
This is a valid attempt to deal with conflicting stimuli from the world - to create standards to which you adhere consciously because you don't trust your intuitions to motivate you rationally in the environment with which you must interact. And really, such attention is partially what it means to be conscious/human - to audit your actions 'from the outside' instead of merely reacting. And with today's bizarre and skewed 'food environment', as it were, this becomes VERY necessary, especially for people with a predilection for analyzing their own behavior even in such supposedly mundane (but really fundamental) things as food consumption.
Tentative hypothesis: some people start with the intention of making rules they'd want to follow, and others don't. The first set might find themselves with a rule they don't follow, but the second assuredly will.
This goes beyond the temperamental difference between people who find rules a reassuring way of limiting choices and those who find rules an irritant at best.
How much care do you put into crafting your rules?
I try to avoid over-optimising on considered principles. I am willing to accept less-than-optimal outcomes based on the criteria I actually consider because those deficits are more often than not compensated by reduced thinking time, reduced anxiety, and unexpected results (eg the movie turning out to be much better or worse than expected).
'Simple Heuristics That Make Us Smart' indicates most decisions are actually made by considering a single course of action, and taking it unless there is some unacceptable problem with it. What really surprised the researchers was that this often does better than linear recursion and stacks up respectably against Bayesian reasoning.
So my answer is, "make random selections from the menu until you hit something you're willing to eat." :)
"At one of our dinners, Milton recalled traveling to an Asian country in the 1960s and visiting a worksite where a new canal was being built. He was shocked to see that, instead of modern tractors and earth movers, the workers had shovels. He asked why there were so few machines. The government bureaucrat explained: "You don't understand. This is a jobs program." To which Milton replied: "Oh, I thought you were trying to build a canal. If it's jobs you want, then you should give these workers spoons, not shovels."
-Milton Friedman story
The earliest known citation of the anecdote is from 1935, quoting Canadian William Aberhart. Milton Friedman certainly told the story, and may have invented the somewhat snappier form quoted here. (Interestingly, William Aberhart was speaking for the Social Credit Party, which was hardly libertarian.)
A few points come to mind:
- Presumably they also wanted a canal and there may well be an optimum point where you maximize some sort of combined utility
- Jobs programs, even those that create nothing particularly useful, are about giving people a sense of worth and accomplishment, otherwise you could just hand out money. Obviously futile make-work activities like the one suggested achieve the opposite of that and are, indeed, often deliberately used to punish and humiliate people.
"They" is the tricky bit there. Presumably some people wanted a canal, and some people other people wanted jobs, and for that matter presumably some people wanted money to go to the construction company who've got an opening for a government liaison consultant coming up in five years time. There's little reason to think the equilibrium is welfare maximising.
Probably, but Brazzy's explanation without adding all those other variables fits well enough to show why Milton's statement might have been missing something important. The point of a jobs program is that society pays some cost (of not using the most optimal method, i.e. more machines and fewer workers) in order to keep its members out of the unemployment trap. To propose, even as a deliberate reductio ad absurdum, that this would go just as well with spoons rather than shovels is not rationality, it's Spock-logic.
Now I'm quite willing to suppose that he understood the usefulness of such programs as an economist and overall had good reasons to see them as not worth it, or that some other measure would do better, but that particular quote fails to show it.
<mental model of Michael Vassar says>This strikes me as a nerdism. If you don't find less intelligent people easier to manipulate, you must be working on sympathetic models of them instead of causal ones. I expect that experience would cure this, and after a few months of empirical practice and updating on the task of reasoning with fools, you would find it was actually easier to get them to do whatever you wanted - if you could manage to actually try a lot of different things and notice what worked, instead of being incredulous and indignant at their apparent reasoning errors.</Vassar>
Upvoted the original for reference to Prince of Nothing series. And upvoted this comment for the terms "sympathetic model" and "causal model", which is one of those times that having the right word for a concept you've been trying to understand is worth a month of trying to untangle things in your head.
...although now I'm not sure whether I should upvote Eliezer or Michael Vassar. It seems kind of unfair to deny Michael an upvote just because the specific instantiation of his algorithm that said this happened to be running on Eliezer's brain at the time.
From Space Viking, by H. Beam Piper:
"Young man," Harkaman reproved, "the conversation was between Lord Trask and myself. And when somebody makes a statement you don't understand, don't tell him he's crazy. Ask him what he means. What do you mean, Lord Trask?"
In the study of reliable processes for arriving at belief, philosophers will become technologically obsolescent. They will be replaced by cognitive and computer scientists, workers in artificial intelligence, and others.
Robert Nozick, The Nature of Rationality
If you haven't read this book yet, do so. It is basically LessWrongism circa 1993.
This strikes me as wrong. The proper work of philosophers and computer scientists seem like they have very little overlap. Yes, philosophers often mistakenly do computer science work, but that is irrelevant.
is there a reason I should want to read an earlier, less developed version of LessWrong, by someone who is not a consequentialist, when I could just read LessWrong?
An idea I've been kicking around -- and am tempted to pull into a coherent form -- is that actually there is a close connection between philosophy and computer science.
Much of philosophy is arguments about various abstractions. Computer science is about using abstractions to engineer software and about proofs about software-related abstractions.
To give one example: I think of the philosophical debate about the semantics of proper nouns as coupled to the notions of reference vs value equality in programming language design.
What are you comparing Less Wrong to?
He was comparing Less Wrong to a book I was quoting from.
Who proved consequentialism?
No one did, but proof is much too high a requirement anyway. Although, I don't think I am alone in recognizing the theories put forward in the The Metaethics Sequence as the least defensible part of Less Wrong doctrine.
This strikes me as wrong. The proper work of philosophers and computer scientists seem like they have very little overlap. Yes, philosophers often mistakenly do computer science work, but that is irrelevant.
The quote isn't talking about philosophy in general, but epistemology specifically. If you take naturalized epistemology seriously (which LessWrongers do), then it seems to follow quite easily that neuroscientists and AI researchers are relatively more important to the future of epistemology than philosophers (remember that most branches of modern science were once a part of philosophy, but later broke off and developed their own class of domain specialists).
is there a reason I should want to read an earlier, less developed version of LessWrong, by someone who is not a consequentialist, when I could just read LessWrong?
One reason to read it would be to provide ourselves with some perspective on how LessWrongism fits into the larger Western intellectual tradition. Nozick is much better about showing how his ideas are related to those of other thinkers than the contributors to Less Wrong are (we share much more in common with Wittgenstein, Quine, Hempel, and Bridgeman than the impression you would get from reading the Sequences). Having this perspective should increase our ability to communicate effectively with other intellectual communities.
His being or not being a consequentialist doesn't seem to have very much to do with the validity of his work in epistemology, decision theory, philosophy of science, or metaphysics. Also, his ethical theory doesn't really fit neatly into the deontological/consequentialism dichotomy anyway. Arguably his ethics/political theory amounts to consequentialism with "side-constraints" (that can even be violated in extreme circumstances). It doesn't seem to be any less consequentislist than, say, rule-utilitarianism.
The same Shermer who publicly recognizes that his widely-repeated "this is your brain on cryonics" is crap but won't even post a half-hearted correction? Yes. Yes they do.
The bulk of political discourse today is purposefully playing telephone with facts in ways that couldn't be done in the Information Age if people just had the know-how to check for themselves. Comprehending complex sentences is something that can be done by first grade, and comprehending complex concepts and issues is without a doubt something better learned in math than in English, where one learns to obfuscate concepts and issues, and to play to baser emotions. Granted, one also learns to recognize and to defend against these tactics, but it still can't hold a candle to the "mental gymnastics" referenced above. Do you realize what the world looks like if you've got a background in math? Imagine signs reading DANGER: KEEP OUT are planted everywhere, but people purposefully and proudly ignore them, treating it as laughably eccentric to have learned more than half the alphabet, approaching en masse and dragging you with them.
If you want to know the way nature works, we looked at it, carefully... that's the way it looks! You don't like it... go somewhere else! To another universe! Where the rules are simpler, philosophically more pleasing, more psychologically easy. I can't help it! OK! If I'm going to tell you honestly what the world looks like to the human beings who have struggled as hard as they can to understand it, I can only tell you what it looks like. And I cannot make it any simpler, I'm not going to do this, I'm not going to simplify it, and I'm not going to fake it. I'm not going to tell you it's something like a ball bearing inside a spring, it isn't. So I'm going to tell you what it really is like, and if you don't like it, that's too bad.
— Richard Feynman, the QED Lectures at the University of Auckland
Reminds me of a Schneier quote that I like:
'Every time I write about the impossibility of effectively protecting digital files on a general-purpose computer, I get responses from people decrying the death of copyright.
"How will authors and artists get paid for their work?" they ask me.
Truth be told, I don't know. I feel rather like the physicist who just explained relativity to a group of would-be interstellar travelers, only to be asked: "How do you expect us to get to the stars, then?"
I'm sorry, but I don't know that, either.'
"Protecting Copyright in the Digital World", Bruce Schneier http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-0108.html#7
"There always comes a time in history when the man who dares to say that two plus two equals four is punished with death … And the issue is not a matter of what reward or what punishment will be the outcome of that reasoning. The issue is simply whether or not two plus two equals four." – Albert Camus, The Plague
Starvation is an illness. (Or food dependency if you prefer.)
I care. If illness is abolished and a doctor of any age is starving, they can stay at my place and I'll feed them. Alternately, we could raise taxes slightly to finance government-mandated programs for training and reconversion of young doctors and early retirement for old doctors.
In other words: beware of though-mindedly accepting bad consequences of overall good policies. Look for a superior alternative first.
"Three-fourths of philosophy and literature is the talk of people trying to convince themselves that they really like the cage they were tricked into entering."
-- Gary Snyder (bOING bOING #9, 1992)
I don't have a strong feeling about the accuracy of the percentage, but the general point sounds plausible.
"The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in war."
--WSJ article about Navy SEALs
It's an interesting point but exceedingly simplistic, more so these days than ever before.
What about "the more you think in training", or "the more you learn in training"? Don't get me wrong, I'm not denying the value of sweat (excerise, fitness, etc), I'm just saying it's not even close to the whole equation.
Rin: What are clouds? I always thought they were thoughts of the sky or something like that. Because you can't touch them.
[ . . . ]
Hisao: Clouds are water. Evaporated water. You know they say that almost all of the water in the world will at some point of its existence be a part of a cloud. Every drop of tears and blood and sweat that comes out of you, it'll be a cloud. All the water inside your body too, it goes up there some time after you die. It might take a while though.
Rin: Your explanation is better than any of mine.
Hisao: Because it's true.
Rin: That must be it.
Katawa Shoujo
For those who are interested: Katawa Shoujo is a visual novel currently in beta, which you can freely download on Windows, Mac OS, and Linux.
The writing isn't all shining gems of dialogue, but it's solidly entertaining, and not nearly as horrifying as the premise might make it sound. The various disabilities are treated more as inconvenient body quirks, rather than defining features; the characters are defined by their personalities and actions. If Katawa Shoujo has a message, that's it.
Anyway, I got a few very enjoyable hours out of it.
A little long, but I don't see the possibility of a good cut:
"Other men were stronger, faster, younger, why was Syrio Forel the best? I will tell you now." He touched the tip of his little finger lightly to his eyelid. "The seeing, the true seeing, that is the heart of it.
"Hear me. The ships of Braavos sail as far as the winds blow, to lands strange and wonderful, and when they return their captains fetch queer animals to the Sealord's menagerie. Such animals as you have never seen, striped horses, great spotted things with necks as long as stilts, hairy mouse-pigs as big as cows, stinging manticores, tigers that carry their cubs in a pouch, terrible walking lizards with scythes for claws. Syrio Forel has seen these things.
"On the day I am speaking of, the first sword was newly dead, and the Sealord sent for me. Many bravos had come to him, and as many had been sent away, none could say why. When I came into his presence, he was seated, and in his lap was a fat yellow cat. He told me that one of his captains had brought the beast to him, from an island beyond the sunrise. 'Have you ever seen her like?' he asked of me.
"And to him I said, 'Each night in the alleys of Braavos I see a thousand like him,' and the Sealord laughed, and that day I was named the first sword."
Arya screwed up her face. "I don't understand."
Syrio clicked his teeth together. "The cat was an ordinary cat, no more. The others expected a fabulous beast, so that is what they saw. How large it was, they said. It was no larger than any other cat, only fat from indolence, for the Sealord fed it from his own table. What curious small ears, they said. Its ears had been chewed away in kitten fights. And it was plainly a tomcat, yet the Sealord said 'her,' and that is what the others saw. Are you hearing?"
Arya thought about it. "You saw what was there."
"Just so. Opening your eyes is all that is needing. The heart lies and the head plays tricks with us, but the eyes see true. Look with your eyes. Hear with your ears. Taste with your mouth. Smell with your nose. Feel with your skin. Then comes the thinking, afterward, and in that way knowing the truth."
- George R.R. Martin, "A Game of Thrones"
This is beautiful, and inspiring. In fact, I predict LW will do better if we have an introductory post consisting of this quote and "That's our goal. Come on in and let's work on that." (would probably cause copyrighty troucle).
It's not a pure illustration, though. Maybe the others thought "Huh, that's just a regular cat. But if I say that the king might ordered me killed in the kind of way people die in Martin books. Better kiss some ass.".
It's not a pure illustration, though. Maybe the others thought "Huh, that's just a regular cat. But if I say that the king might ordered me killed in the kind of way people die in Martin books. Better kiss some ass.".
I agree that the existence of this factor makes whether someone announces that it's a normal cat a poor indication of whether they actually realized such. However, I think it's reasonable to hypothesize that Syrio was looking for someone who both recognized that he was holding a normal cat and was willing to tell him such.
This quote is from a passage where Darwin is talking about religion:
At present the most usual argument for the existence of an intelligent God is drawn from deep inward conviction and feelings which are experienced by most persons. But it cannot be doubted that Hindoos, Mahomadans and others might argue in the same manner and with equal force in favour of the existence of one God, or of many Gods, or as with the Buddhists of no God....
Formerly I was led by feelings such as those just referred to, (although I do not think that the religious sentiment was ever strongly developed in me), to the firm conviction of the existence of God, and of the immortality of the soul... ...This argument would be a valid one, if all men of all races had the same inward conviction of the existence of one God; but we know this is very far from being the case. Therefore I cannot see that such inward convictions and feelings are of any weight as evidence of what really exists....
Source: http://www.age-of-the-sage.org/faith_vs_reason_debate.html
The megalomania of the genes does not mean that benevolence and cooperation cannot evolve, any more than the law of gravity proves that flight cannot evolve. It means only that benevolence, like flight, is a special state of affairs in need of an explanation, not something that just happens.
- Pinker, The Blank Slate
Just because you two are arguing, doesn't mean one of you is right.
...or that both of you are wrong. Most times people argue, neither party actually has a fundamental grasp of their own position. If both did, it would either change the argument to an ENTIRELY different and more essential one, or dissolve it. And either of those options is of absolute gain for the participants.
Not that I can do anything about this aside from in my own actions, but it's annoying as hell sometimes.
If the fossil record shows more dinosaur footprints in one period than another, it does not necessarily mean that there were more dinosaurs -- it may be that there was more mud.
It's not exactly a 'he said she said' argument. It's a 'top experts on the subject predict significant methane emissions from melting permafrost, but some guy on my blog says they must be wrong' argument.
-- John Baez on Melting Permafrost
I am quite prepared to be told, with regard to the cases I have here proposed, as I have already been told with regard to others, "Oh, that is an extreme case, it would never really happen!" Now I have observed that the answer is always given instantly, with perfect confidence, and without examination of the details of the proposed case. It must therefore rest on some general principle: the mental process being probably something like this — 'I have formed a theory. This case contradicts my theory. Therefore this is an extreme case, and would never occur in practice'.
-Charles Dodgson (Lewis Carroll), relating to the possibility of strategically-induced Condorcet cycles in elections.
"Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows."
- 1984, George Orwell (although I really shouldn't have to attribute this one)
Probably my favorite statement on rationality, it's so practical for launching off into every other sphere of thought - politics, ethics, theology, maths/physics, and, well, all else that follows.
"People argue against the existence of spirits and immaterial souls because they can't be explained by science. But if by definition these things are outside the scope of science, then you can't use science to prove or disprove them."
"Do these spirits and souls actually affect anything in the real world?"
"Then they're within the scope of science."
"Okay, let's say they don't interact at all with the world."
"Then why do we care?!?!"
Now that's the general solution to a problem that all the programmers in the world are out there inventing for you, the general solution, and nobody has the general problem.
"...I thank my fortune for it,
My ventures are not in one bottom trusted,
Nor to one place; nor is my whole estate
Upon the fortune of this present year:
Therefore my merchandise makes me not sad."
--Antonio, The Merchant of Venice, Act 1 Scene 1. I have found this quote coming to mind recently apropos the recent Bitcoin price swings.
The science fiction writer Arthur C. Clarke remarked that "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". Clarke was referring to the fantastic inventions we might discover in the future or in our travels to advanced civilizations. However, the insight also applies to self-perception. When we turn our attention to our own minds, we are faced with trying to understand an unimaginably advanced technology. We can't possibly know (let alone keep track of) the tremendous number of mechanical influences on our behavior because we inhabit an extraordinarily complicated machine. So we develop a shorthand, a belief in the causal efficacy of our conscious thoughts. We believe in the magic of our own causal agency.
- Daniel M. Wegner, The Illusion of Conscious Will
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance — that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
attribution unknown
I may have posted a little too fast-- I picked up the quote from a site which says it's a misquotation, and apt to be used to support dubious ideas.
On the other hand, contempt can come into play too quickly and reflexively, so I'm not deleting the quote.
Math is cumulative. Even Wiles and Perelman had to stand on the lemma-encrusted shoulders of giants.
Scott Aaronson, "Ten Signs a Claimed Mathematical Breakthrough is Wrong", which is worth reading in its own right.
Okay, so the essence of wisdom is to be exactly as suspicious of everything as you should be, the first-pass approximation of wisdom is to remain suspicious of what you want to be true, and the second-pass approximation of wisdom is to be also suspicious of current beliefs you want to be untrue.
I see that I've quoted the following twice before within other comment threads, so I think it deserves a place here:
He who would be Pope must think of nothing else.
Usually cited as a Spanish proverb.
If a process is potentially good, but 90+% of the time smart and well-intentioned people screw it up, then it's a bad process. So they can only say it's the team's fault so many times before it's not really the team's fault.
quoted text The art of concluding from experience and observation consists in evaluating probabilities, in estimating if they are high or numerous enough to constitute proof. This type of calculation is more complicated and more difficult than one might think. It demands a great sagacity generally above the power of common people. The success of charlatans, sorcerors, and alchemists — and all those who abuse public credulity — is founded on errors in this type of calculation.
Benjamin Franklin and Antoine Lavoisier, Rapport des commissaires chargés par le roi de l'examen du magnétisme animal (1784), as translated in "The Chain of Reason versus the Chain of Thumbs", Bully for Brontosaurus (1991) by Stephen Jay Gould, p. 195, http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin


text:
Take a load off on one of these super sofas. Sofas are the unheralded heroes of houses worldwide.
Sofas are the most customizable piece of furniture in the home. One day you pass out on it, the next day you watch the game with your boys on it. Try doing that on your bed and not feeling awkward. Show sofas the love they deserve, by clicking through all of these super sofas today.
64 Super Sofas
More Stats +/-

subset: commoncrawl


text: On 12/05/2009, at 14:45, Reiner Pope wrote: > The Stream datatype seems to be much better suited to representing > loops than the list datatype is. So, instead of programming with the > lists, why don't we just use the Stream datatype directly? I think the main reason is that streams don't store data and therefore don't support sharing. That is, in let xs = map f ys in (sum xs, product xs) the elements of xs will be computed once if it is a list but twice if it is a stream. Roman


text:
England all-rounder Ben Stokes has been taking anger management advice from a sports psychologist in an attempt to avoid a repeat of the embarrassing episode that cost him his World Twenty20 place when he broke a wrist by punching a dressing-room locker.
Stokes has not picked up a bat since he broke the scaphoid bone in his right wrist by punching the locker after he was dismissed for a first-ball duck in a Twenty20 international against West Indies in Barbados last month.
The 22-year-old suffered a similar injury earlier in his career when he punched a fire door during a club match but hopes that sessions with England's sports psychologist, Mark Bawden, will help him to control his temper in future.
"England have got a sports psychologist who you can have some chats with him and let out things which you wouldn't tell someone on the street," Stokes said. "He just gives you different ways of how to handle it so it's good. Anything that stops me doing what I did is going to be helpful."
Stokes hit out in frustration after a run of low scores in limited-overs cricket which followed a successful introduction to Test cricket in the Ashes debacle.
Stokes's embarrassment, and a full apology to his team-mates before he headed back to England, ensured that there was no need for a dressing down from England's limited-overs coach, Ashley Giles.
"It was more failure on a personal level I guess. I have a lot of passion about what I do and unfortunately on that occasion the passion came out in a way that I regret," Stokes said. "Looking back on it, it's something I regret doing and hopefully in the future if I get to that point again then I will be able to deal with it in a way that I don't break my wrist.
"You never want to stop that emotion on the field. I just hope never again to show that sort of emotion off the field which results in an injury. But I definitely won't lose that edge that I have on the field.
"The players were obviously disappointed and I let them know that I was disappointed with myself. I spoke to the team before I left saying: 'I'm sorry I'm letting you down.'
"Gilo was good with it. He didn't really tell me off because he didn't think he had to."
The dressing-room locker incident was the second time that Stokes had been forced to return to England in embarrassing circumstances. A year earlier he was sent home in disgrace from an England Lions tour to Australia along with fellow all-rounder Matt Coles for persistent late night drinking.
But Stokes hopes that his anger management sessions will ensure that the England selectors have no future reasons to overlook him for disciplinary reasons and will focus only on the talent that brought him a maiden Test century in Perth and six for 99 in Sydney last winter.
"I hope I don't give them an opportunity to say, 'We don't want to play you because of your attitude'. It's something that I really make sure that I'm on top of. Attitude was a big thing, it was how I was brought up from my old man," he said. "If you are doing the right things on the pitch then you are always going to get picked."
Stokes will have to wait at least another month before he is picked by England again. No date on his comeback has been set and he is due to see a specialist again on May 12, three days after England play their next one-day international against Scotland in Aberdeen.
A Twenty20 international against Sri Lanka starts at the Oval on May 20 followed by the first one-day international two days later, so an England return in the two-Test series that starts in mid-June may be more realistic for Stokes.
"There hasn't been a date set by anyone. It's just a matter of time and healing which will depend on when I can get back in the nets," he said.
"I'm going to see a specialist again next month to see how everything is going so I'll know more after that."
Ben Stokes was speaking ahead of the start of the NatWestT20 Blast season. Blast off is Friday May 16, tickets can be purchased from http://www.ecb.co.uk/natwestt20blast


text:
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text: Starfire 10 Posted February 13 I'm mostly after the internal storage boxes from the left side of the interior. As I have 2 Ferrets, which are amazingly missing the same things, I really need 2 of each, but I'll take what I can get Large ammo box that goes on the escape hatch (holds 4 .30 ammo boxes, with the cage on the front for the MG tools box). Small ammo box that goes next to the escape hatch (holds 1 .30 ammo box). 88 set radio box. Grenade bins I also need 2 of the little props that go on the top front of the turret and hold the lid up a bit when it's open. The second Ferret is an Australian Mk 2, but has been robbed of its turret. A turret and base plate would be nice, but another option is that I would be happy to convert it to Mk 1 specification. For that I would need the roof components and all of the internal fittings for either Bren or Browning. If I can get the roof set, I can live without the rest for now. I could also use various bits of CES. Postage is to Adelaide, South Australia. I know that it will be expensive, but it's part of the game of owning old British armour. Let me know what you've got. Cheers, Terry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites


text:
We all watched breathlessly when the Independent York Revolution employed 3-foot-2 batter Dave Flood this season during spring training. Would this mark a glorious new era in tiny strike zones? Um, no.
The man who many thought would drive pitchers crazy and draw walks with the frequency of Barry Bonds ended the spring with the following numbers: 0-for-3 with three strikeouts and one walk.
Like Flood, I blame the umpires.
"One of the pitches was definitely a strike, but none of the others were," said Flood, who felt like umpires could not correctly call his strike zone during the spring. "Obviously, someone needs to void their paychecks."
Video of Flood's historic first at-bat here. The Lollipop Guild is appealing the decision.
Rev's Experiment With 3-foot-2 Flood Ends [York Daily Record]
Now Batting: A 3-Foot-2 Walk-Drawing Machine [Sports by Brooks]
York Revolution [Official Site]


text:
Southern Oregon News Article
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kennewick, WA
Posts: 602
From WildlandsCPR:
The Real Story on the Proposed White Rock ORV Area
By Sarah Peters
April 7, 2010
Printer friendly version
An article in the Douglas County, Oregon News-Review over the weekend highlighted damage that is occurring on private timber land in southern Oregon due to off road vehicle use. While private land owners have in the past turned a blind eye to off road vehicle use on their lands, they now find themselves in a situation where the damage that is occurring is too great to ignore. But, stopping the illegal trespass is easier said than done.
While the article briefly mentions a possible "solution" to the problem that has been proposed by the local ORV group of designating routes for ORVs on nearby BLM land, it fails to mention that the land that is the subject of this proposal has also been suffering from illegal use, and has also been extensively damaged.
Francis Eatherington, formerly with Umpqua Watersheds and now with Cascadia Wildlands, recently sent me pictures from her visit to the White Rocks/Mrytle Creek area, and the damage that has been caused by illegal use in the area, which BLM has attempted to close, but failed to enforce.
We'll keep you posted as to what the BLM has planned for this area, and whether they decide to formally propose an ORV trail system in this fragile, already heavily damaged, area.
Dave Walters
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text: Firstly, apologies I have searched for the answers but to no avail. If I retro fit an RNS to my B7 A4, will the DIS display track names from the SD cards? Will it show nav directions too, or do you need the colour DIS for that? My car has OEM Bluetooth fitted, will the RNS still work with it and the MFSW, obviously it will need coded too? Does the version if RNS matter or even are there different firmwares? Thanks folks!


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Los Angeles, Oct 8 (IANS) Amidst growing speculation about the successor to Daniel Craig in the James Bond franchise, the actor has said that he is fine if rapper-designer Kanye West plays the role of the fictional superspy.
The "Skyfall" actor, who has already hinted that a woman or a black actor may be playing the role of the James Bond character in the next movie, says that if it is Kanye West then he should be brought on board now, reports femalefirst.co.uk.
"Is Kanye the new one? F**k it, yeah, get him in now," GQ Australia magazine quoted Craig as saying.
Irritated with the endless speculation about his successor — especially as he's yet to call time on his tenure as Bond, the 47-year-old quipped: "You know Roger Moore's also 200-1? So too David Beckham. Whatever… on the list of my priorities this is not even near the bottom."
Perhaps his irritability when talking about his successor stems from the pressure he is under for the upcoming film "Spectre".
"When I first started these movies I didn't know any better — I was naive and didn't worry about a great deal, I just got on with it," he said.
"As they went on, the pressure built. People thought 'Casino Royale' would bomb, it was a massive success and they were like, 'What are you going to do now?' Then 'Quantum of Solace', OK, it was difficult and a huge amount of pressure, but then with 'Skyfall', again it was, 'What are you going to do now?' Well, we got Sam Mendes on board and it suddenly became a bit easier," he added.


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Even with it's scheduled opening nearly two years away, there has already been a tremendous about of digital ink spilled about Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice. That's not surprising given the amount of interest...Read More →
News has recently broken that Warner Brothers has thrown out their latest script, for Justice League, which was written by Will Beall. Yes, the same Will Beall, who recently wrote the rather disappointing Gangster Squad....Read More →


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In Business
Pepperl+Fuchs (Twinsburg, OH) recently announced that it has acquired the Enclosure Protection Systems (EPS) division of Bebco Industries. Bebco EPS features a portfolio of purge and pressurization panels and control units for hazardous areas. Pepperl+Fuchs will retain the Bebco EPS brand name for the newly acquired product line.
To complete its transition into a pure analog semiconductor company and strengthen its finances, Intersil Corp. (Milpitas, CA) recently sold its Wireless Networking Product Group to GlobespanVirata Inc. for $250 million in cash and more than 15 million shares of Globespan's stock. In connection with the sale, Intersil implemented several cost reductions, which included reducing its workforce by 8%.
To help system designers improve industrial network reliability, Texas Instruments Inc. (TI, Dallas, TX) has introduced its new Profibus transceivers that offer low signal distortion and are compliant with EN 50170 and TIA/EIA-485 standards. TI reports that its SN65HVD1176 and SN75HVD1176 transceivers provide improved output transition skew of less than 1 nanosecond, typically 0.2 nsec, giving system designers the ability to tighten the timing budget of networked applications.
To help manufacturers increase uptime and improve production efficiencies, Rockwell Automation (Milwaukee, WI) has introduced assessment tools to help identify opportunities for process improvement in maintenance, repair and operations (MRO) practices. These "Manufacturing Performance Assessment" programs identify performance issues; establish baseline metrics; and outline recommended corrective actions to increase machine availability, reliability and safety. The assessment tools include the Machinery Condition Evaluation, Plant Baseline Evaluation, Installed Base Evaluation and Integrated Performance Assessment tools.
Eaton Corp. (Cleveland, OH) announced Sept. 22 that it has renamed its Industrial and Commercial Controls business and its Cutler-Hammer organizational unit as Eaton Electrical. Due to its acquisition and integration of Delta plc's electrical division in January 2003, Eaton Electrical has increased its ability to serve multinational customers.
SatCon Technology Corp. (Cambridge, MA) reports that it recently delivered a prototype power conditioning system (PCS) for a 75-kW fuel cell power generation unit at a petrochemical plant application, and adds that a second SatCon unit will be delivered to the plant later this month. Hydrogen by-products from the plants chemical and plastic production will power a planned 35-megawatt fuel cell power generation system.
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I miss the first day of school. Not going to school, so much, but having something to look forward to like that.
Starting a new year tanned, rested and ready, with new clothes and fresh supplies — not to mention the chance to meet potentially hundreds of new people with whom you automatically share at least something in common — well, I always dug that. Oh, and learning new stuff, starting a new football season, showing people how much you've grown and matured over the summer. Yeah! Even in years I hated school, that was still among my favorite times of year. Summer vacation's pretty awesome too.
Nothing even remotely compares to that anymore. I guess that's just how life is. You have to look forward because you can't go back.
Still, I wish adult life was more like school. The supportive environment. The regular milestones and benchmarks. The personal growth. Some people can't wait to break out of that. I discovered once I was out how much that had kept me going.
No wonder I wanted to be a pro athlete when I was younger. There was something alluring about having a career that could be summed up in statistics on a card. If nothing else, it reminded people that you were there.
And I'm still here. Ready for another semester in life. Bring it.


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Modeled after traditional Viking swordsSharp 29" 440 stainless steel bladeBrown suede wrapped handleIncludes coordinating scabbardOverall length: 36 1/4"
Modeled after traditional Viking swordsSharp 29" 440 stainless steel bladeBrown suede wrapped handleIncludes coordinating scabbardOverall length: 36 1/4"
Product Description
This historical recreation is modeled after the traditional battle swords wielded by the hordes of Viking invaders that pillaged Europe in the Dark and Middle Ages. This sword features a wide 29" blade crafted from 440 stainless steel. The handle offers cast metal pommel and guard along with a brown suede leather wrapped handle. This sword includes a coordinating sheath and measures 36 1/4" overall. This item is a worthy addition to any sword collection!
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Personally, I like this sword. The balance is very good, the blade is thick and straight, and the sheath is fine. For someone who is not planning on invading Britain anytime soon, I'm happy with it. After all, what else can you do with any of these historically inspired swords but display and enjoy them?
The good thing is that the blade is 440 stainless and reacts similar to a real Viking blade; if used with that fighting style it'll hold up, beyond that it has many problems. It is not full tang so don't try power strikes. The handle and sheath are wrapped bamboo so be careful. The leather work is of very low skill level (my 10 year old grandson dose better work and he learned last year). The antique finish on the guard, pummel, and sheath cuffs makes it look toyish and the upper two sheath cuffs are riveted to a negative cross style. The blade edge looks like it was filed with a flat wood rasp, it took several hours to grind the serrations down, it'll take several hours more for a presentable edge. The filler groove is of very poor quality and seems to be made with a stamp for a 6" or 8" knife. I'll fix it up and make a new sheath for it to hang on the wall. I expected for the price a sword that would be at least comparable to "Chaos", the sword I have been using for years and only paid $30 for and added a little love. For the price it should be either full-tang or presentable enough to display on the main room wall.
A great buy for the cost! I've had it about a year now. The Blade: It is in fact 440 stainless steel although it is Chinese made. The factory edge was a diamond cut, but it didn't take much work to resharpen to a nice convex razor edge. (I use a 1 inch belt sander with ascending grits) being 440 the edge holds decently. Hilt to pommel: The "brown suede leather" is actually cheap fabric, so I immediately re-wrapped the handle with some nice veg tanned leather. The hilt and pommel are both cast metal, with a nice brass finish, and the pommel is held in place buy a hex screw. Sheath: Its made of cheap wood and more of that fabric, but it does its job, I haven't gotten around to replacing it with something of a higher quality. Useage: Its great for display certainly but it didn't hold up quite so well in practice. The edge held well with minor chipping when it strikes metal, but as I hit the practice dummy the pommel began to unscrew. Tightening it only served to crack and splinter the wooden handle. After about 20 minutes the threaded rod that the pommel is screwed to, broke, where it was welded to the tang. I've welded reinforcements to the tang and used a quality hard wood for the handle, haven't had any problems since.
This is an excellent sword. It is worth it's price. The ONLY problem I have is that it sort of clangs around in the sheath if not careful with it. The ACTUAL blade is very nice. sharp, pointy. Good for cutting and stabbing like all swords should be. It has a nice shine to it, the handle is nice and comfortable in the hand. Unfortunately Budk.com will not let me give it 10 stars, because if I could give it 10 stars I would. This was a great buy.
Personally I had only three problems with this sword. 1. I had to re-glue the pleather cover on the scabbard and the ends of the hilt wrap. 2. The scabbard is worth only the price of the brass fittings. Its just faux suede over thin plastic over 1/16" thick pine. 3. The balance is blade heavy. other than that this sword is perfect for the money. Stainless steel = no maintenance, heavy enough for weight training, enough of a tang so its not going to snap at the hilt, or even inside the hilt. The pommel nut is recessed so you can't see it unless you look straight at it, and sturdy enough to move it fairly fast also, it comes dull enough to work some fairly speedy solo maneuvers without fear of cutting yourself using only minimal protection. Great sword. I will defiantly buy from budk again.
For the price, it has it all. I have no complaints. If you're expecting anything more that a wall hanger, forget it. Very nice fit and finish. My blade has a bend in it. (much as a saber would, just not intentional, and only a small amount) It appears straight unless you look down the blade. Nice polish on the blade. Fuller is a bit irregular. Blade is 3/4 of the way sharp, but not fully sharp. Scabbard fits very nicely. The simulated leather on the handle and scabbard is attractive and fine if you are using for display only. Otherwise, they may fall a bit short of functional.
Bought this sword some time ago, has impressed everyone who's seen or held it! **again, this is a display sword, not for use... the blade itself is slightly bend and does need to be polished from the factory (at least mine did) Looks beautiful, as a display definitely worth my 50 bucks!
its a great display sword and everybody has to touch it and look at it.
The sword has a hex nut in the pommel that ruins the look. The blade is sharpened which is a bummer. The blade also has a very narrow fuller and the end is too pointy for a Viking blade. The handle is just fake suede wrapped and pinned in place. The sheath is covered in brown rubber based foam fake leather. You get what you pay for. It does come apart nicely for releathering the grip and sheath and will suffice as a dress sword.
my buddy has one of these swords and it's AMAZING!!! im actually thinking about getting myself one
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© 2017 BUDK Worldwide. All rights reserved. 475 US Hwy 319 South, Moultrie GA 31768 | Phone : 866-246-7164 | Fax toll free : 877-428-3599
© 2017 BUDK Worldwide. All rights reserved. 475 US Hwy 319 South, Moultrie GA 31768
| Phone : 866-246-7164 | Fax toll free : 877-428-3599
© 2017 BUDK Worldwide. All rights reserved. 475 US Hwy 319 South, Moultrie GA 31768 | Phone : 866-246-7164 | Fax toll free : 877-428-3599


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Okay, California Pacific Airlines ready again
FAA-certified, but start dates out of Carlsbad airport uncertain (psst, April)
Ken Harrison 8:30 a.m., Nov. 18
When you're driving down the road, or on a freeway, or any place, and if you see a stranded motorist, how do you decide if and when to pull over.
I'll admit, right here and now, I'm a coward. I only pull over if I think i have a reasonable chance to beat them in a fight; which means I don't pull over that much.
Even, if by chance I am driving near Hillcrest, and I see a woman who looks like Ernest Borgnine in drag, I will not pull over. Why risk it?
Today I pulled over to the side of the road to help a man with his wife and child. Sure, they could have been a family of cannibals, but the woman looked honest, and their kid seemed normal. I helped the dude change his tire, and then I moved on.
And then, down the road a bit further, I saw a motorbike rider trying to flag people down, and he looked like Adam Lambert crossed with Pewee Herman (who was awful on Conan a couple nights back)...I didn't stop.
So there..I have told you when I will pull over (hardly ever) and yeah, its due to the fact I am a human with all the stereotypes pre-loaded.
Now, what about you? What circumstances, do you pull over to help?
Not being sexist, but would a woman ever pull over and help a stranded motorist who was a man? What if he looked like Edward the Vampire from New Moon? ...
Do you leave your fellow human...stranded? Or, are you a person willing to help a stranger in need?
"...due to the fact I am a human with all the stereotypes pre-loaded."
Humans are not born with steretypes preloaded. That's a learned cultural phenomenon, and pick and choose once we become conscious of our biases.
"...the woman looked honest, and their kid seemed normal."
So how did the woman communicate 'honesty' to you?
Humans are born with two things: The fear of heights and the fear of loud noises. All else is either learned or unlearned.
If there is another human being in need and it is within my means to help, then I will. I think the most important aspect of being a human, is in trying to be a good human. Otherwise, we would all be victims, or worse, predators. The world is what you make it, so my advice is to make it good.
Refried I agree with your sentiments about being human and the world being what we make it, but completely disagree about everything being learned. We are unfortunately mostly monkeys following our impulses most of the time. We give ourselves way to much credit for being thinking creatures. More and more evidence comes out over time linking more and more behaviors we once thought of as choices to our genetics. But the only proof you really need is to go sit and watch the primates at the zoo for a while. It's like watching reality TV.
rickey, I understand your basic platform, but you take it too far, and expect extremes of what you deem to be the 'opposite' of your views. To support your basic platform that we are all instinct, impulse, and genetics, with very little else, you keep stating things like "more and more evidence comes out over time linking more and more behaviors we once thought of as choices to our genetics," or you suggest that we go watch Zoo TV.
However, you don't clearly explain away social phenomena, and you will never be able to, because there is going to be just as much research showing how we are beings that grow intellectually and perceptually over a lifetime, picking up social cues, in the form of biases and affinities, wherever we go. We are complex structures of both genetic and socially learned behaviors. Sometimes I think that you stick to the former and deny the latter because it allows you to form opinions about how certain groups of people are genetically less intelligent than others. What do you think--could this be your ultimate personal bias, no doubt acquired culturally?
Rickey, I have no pets and do not believe in the concept of a zoo. Monkeys sling poo and masturbate because, hell, they're locked up in a cage, what else are they going to do? Lock me up in a cage, and you can sign me up for a lot of poo slinging and masturbation. It seems appropriate behavior in such circumstances.
Preloaded...maybe not. But we are all raised in environments where we are 'uploaded' with views of the world that are peppered with stereotypes.
And, SDANIES, I don't care how you respond to this; but YOU will not pull over to help everyone. You can say you will, but I know humanity far to well to know you won't. I cant tell already that many of the people on this site wouldn't pull over to help a black gangsta looking, hell I wouldn't. And SDanels, neither would you.
Luckly for you they all drive Escalades that aren't about to break down on the side of the road.
Scorp...because someone wouldn't pull over to help just anyone, really doesn't prove much.
I used to always pull over and help people. Most often when their car needed to be pushed to a gas station, and I saw them struggling with one person steering and one pushing.
The reason I stop less now is because...EVERYONE has a cell phone. So they won't be stranded for long (I figure). They also have those boxes on the freeway for phone calls (I used one once before I had a cell phone, and it worked wonderfully)
Rickey...your monkey premise is very flawed. If we just walk around going by our instincts, I'm guessing people would just walk into stores and steal food, rape women, and every man would be cheating on his wife.
So, instead of going on and on with your goofy monkey theories.....which really don't prove a lot. I think most of us agree, we are animals. Or that we became humans evoling from apes and monkeys (hi Fred). But so what.
Sorry Josh, once again you are living in some 'ideal' reality in your brain. Most people do not pull over to help anyone; for the same reason they don't try to stop a shoplifter right in front of them; they are afraid. I still remember a long ago episode of COPS where they showed the number of cars that passed by a 'staged' abandoned motorist. I doubt much has changed in the era of cellphones.
You say you don't pull over now because most people have cells? So you are at least pulling over to ask them if they have a cell righ? Or to make sure if they do its charged, just to be sure right??? Wouldn't want to know that they got knifed to death by some whacko simply because they were left on the side of the road by other drivers because everyone assumed they had a cellphone.
Sorry, I ain't buying it.
Well, I agree that a lot of people don't stop because of the fear of doing it. But a lot of other things are going on as well.
First, I don't know jack about cars. I can barely put a tire on a jack, for that matter. So what good is it for me to stop?
Yes, on two occasions, I've stopped and offered them the use of my cell phone. And they told me they already had it covered.
I even parked a great distance in front of them, and didn't walk all the way over, so the women wouldn't have anything to worry about.
Anyway, you have to consider so much before pulling over. Do you have time to do this, or are you heading somewhere you need to be by a certain time?
What if someone hits me, while I'm pulled over helping them? What if they carjack me? What if this is all a big ploy to get robbed?
Am I really going to be providing any help at all?


text:
Bharat Doshi, executive director and group chief financial officer, M&M is optimistic on the days ahead. He says the good monsoon seen throughout the country and the upcoming festive season should boost sales.
The SUV excise duty affected sales that led to Mahindra and Mahindra also falling victim to the slowdown in the auto sector, says Bharat Doshi, executive director and group chief financial officer, M&M.
Also read: Hit by slowdown, yes! But won't stop new launches: Motown
The country's leading SUV manufacturer's sales numbers for August 2013 stood at 37,897 units as against 45,836 units during August 2012.
"Mahindra was bucking the trend inspite of the general slowdown which started last year. This is because the whole SUV sector did well last year. Then came the famous SUV tax which was unfair and considering the economic environment, one would have expected measures which would actually encourage auto industry to grow. Instead came in the 3 percent tax came on SUV," says Doshi.
However, Doshi is optimistic on the days ahead. He says the good monsoon seen throughout the country and the upcoming festive season should boost sales.
Below is the edited transcript of Doshi's interview to CNBC-TV18.
Q: It's been extremely tough times for the entire auto sector and Mahindra & Mahindra was actually bucking the trend for a while but now sadly there are some cracks opening up in the utility vehicle space; tractors have been good but slight bit of moderation there as well. What is your sense on how much more pain this sector would have to undergo before seeing any kind of troughing out?
A: It is interesting. Yes, Mahindra was bucking the trend inspite of the general slow down which started last year. This is because the whole SUV sector last year did well. Then came the famous SUV tax which was definitely unfair and considering the economic environment, one would have expected measures which would actually encourage auto industry to grow but that did not happen. Instead of that, the 3 percent tax came on SUV.
Something which the industry has always accepted is that be it petrol, diesel price hike or subsidies, everything has an impact on the market. Then of course, the interest rates affects because the interest rates in the auto industry are not likely to come down in the near future. There is always a delay in purchase which one should keep in mind.
However, the major factor and this is something which one should keep in mind that it is if one looks at the preceding two years, the 2011-2012 and before that 2010-2011 both the years there were 28 percent growth for the auto industry. If one looks at the arrival of the average strength there would be a correction which would happen.
On the other hand I am very hopeful. If one goes back to the 2008-2009 crisis, one had negative auto industry growth which was at around minus 5 percent and immediately in the succeeding year, 2009-2010 and then 2010-2011, we saw 28 percent growth. I am hopeful that this will recover.
One will definitely not see signs of recovery by September-end. What they call the inauspicious period will come the last 15 days of September going into the first week of October. After that there's Dussehra and Diwali, so there is hope in the third quarter.
There is also hope of a good monsoon and good harvest alongwith a promise that there would be a sufficient level of water retained so the next harvest will be also good. Keeping that in mind, one will see a recovery. I would like to believe that.
Q: Rather than compared to Lehman, post Lehman we had both monetary stimulus and fiscal stimulus we had space for it – this is perhaps more comparable to 1997 and you are one of the few veterans who saw your industry as well as India Inc in general pull out of a six year slow down – what is the sense you are getting of this. How long might it take and when do you see light at the end of the tunnel?
A: For everything there is an interesting scenario which is that the pace of change has changed. The pace has become faster. So, if one looks at that again here not as an experience but as a theory going forward, that if the pace of change was at a given level, compared to 1997-1998 and if one looks at 2007-2008 onwards, I call it the space mountain ride. The ride goes slow then fast, does this a couple of times and then, it suddenly goes at a much higher speed. Finally, it goes up and down.
The unique feature of that ride is that it is completely in darkness. Today we are in that situation. So, if you ask me any forecast it would be like some intuition, some guess work but it is not based on a fundamental theory but there is pace of change has changed and it has become much faster then the recovery also should come a little faster.
Hence, I gave the example of 2008-2009 as followed by 2009-2010 and 2010-2011 and I stuck to the auto industry example but one saw it in the gross domestic product (GDP) numbers also in those years.


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Owl Prowl
Learn about the owls in our area and enjoy a 1/2-mile walk to listen to owls calling at night. Susan Campbell, PHP Education Coordinator, presents.
Registration through this website is required and limited to 30 participants. Registration opens Nov. 7. Children must be at least 7 years old and must be accompanied by an adult. Listening for the owls requires sitting quietly for 30-45 minutes. Participants are asked to bring their own portable chairs and to dress for the weather.
Presented by San Antonio Parks & Recreation and the Phil Hardberger Park Conservancy. Free. A donation to the PHP Conservancy of $3/ person OR $5/ family is suggested.
Event Details
|Saturday, Dec 3, 2016 6:00 pm
|Saturday, Dec 3, 2016 8:00 pm
|Registration Start Date
|Monday, Nov 7, 2016 9:00 am
|Blanco Road (PHP East)


text: Johannesburg - Shares of South African construction companies such as Stefanutti fell on Monday after reports they colluded to fix prices for state and other contracts worth at least R30bn. It was reported on Sunday that Stefanutti Stocks Holdings [JSE:SFP] executives had made several statements to investigators and prosecutors that admit they may be guilty of corruption and racketeering. Wilson Bayley Holmes - Ovcon [JSE:WBO] said on Monday it was in confidential talks with competition authorities about a number of projects but refuted reports that it had engaged in any criminal conduct. Stefanutti stocks had lost 6% to R10 at 07:47 GMT, while WBHO was down 3.7% to R148.69. Basil Read [JSE:BSR] fell 3.6% to R11.18.


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Artist description:
It's been a while brotha'
Java Draw Created Mar 03, 2013 460 x 640px Unless noted Copyright 2013 Nine.
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blue-rose-91 Apr 01, 2013
i just love how you can do this tense effect
ammona Mar 04, 2013
interesting wowwww.5/5.
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