text: PSC: Century's special rate can't put other power customers at risk By Lori Kersey October 4, 2012 Story Share CHARLESTON, W.Va. -- If Century Aluminum wants to restart its Ravenswood plant, the company may have a special rate for electricity, but not at the expense of other Appalachian Power customers, the state Public Service Commission ruled Thursday.Century officials said that in order to restart the plant, which closed in 2009, Century would need a special rate for electricity based on the price of aluminum. The PSC's Consumer Advocate Division of the PSC had argued against Century's proposal, saying that other Appalachian Power customers would see an increase in their bills. PSC commissioners Michael Albert, Jon McKinney and Ryan Palmer issued a ruling on Thursday that "rejects Century's proposal to place the risk of revenue shortfalls on other APCo customers," according to a statement from the PSC."It places that risk, instead, on Century, and requires Century and its parent company to enter into a corporate guarantee and undertaking with APCo to assure payment of any revenue shortfalls and to otherwise comply with the conditions of the order."If Century accepts the PSC's terms, the company would have to enter into a contract with the commission until at least Dec. 31, 2021. The contract could also be extended to cover a full 10 years, according to the statement.The PSC's ruling allows Century to pay a price for electricity based on the price of aluminum, which the company had wanted.At the end of the contract, if Century paid more for electricity than it should, the first $200 million of the difference would go to reduce rates for Appalachian Power's other customers. Any overage above $200 million would be split, with 75 percent going to Century and 25 percent going to reduce Appalachian Power rates. If, because of low aluminum prices, Century hadn't paid as much as it should have by the end of the contract, Century would have to make up the difference with Appalachian Power."The commission has set a minimum rate for Century but they will allow the cash rate that Century pays to go below that minimum rate," Byron Harris, director of the PSC's Consumer Advocate Division, explained Thursday. "The difference between the cash rate and the minimum rate will be guaranteed to be paid back by the parent company of Century."Harris said the rate had good points and bad points."That corporate guarantee is not perfect," Harris said. "It's a good thing but it's not perfect. Corporations go bankrupt. We're talking about a mechanism that will last for 10 years." Harris said Thursday afternoon he had yet to "dig in" to the finer points of the 70-page order."I can't really say (if his division supports the special rate)," Harris said. "We have 15 days to file for ... the commission to reconsider so I'll be deciding that over the next 15 days -- actually before that because we'd have to get working on a filing."The commission's approval for the special rate mechanism will expire at the end of the year.Appalachian Power spokeswoman Jeri Matheny said the company would support the PSC's new rate proposal. "For the most part we're glad the commission was able to reach what seems like a reasonable plan of action," Matheny said. She added that company officials are especially glad the newly proposed rate will put risk not on other Appalachian Power customers, but on Century."The ball is in Century's court for them to make a decision if they can restart under these guidelines," Matheney said.Calls to Century officials were not immediately returned Thursday.Earlier this year, state lawmakers approved a tax credit worth up to almost $20 million a year intended to help the Century plant reopen. The PSC said Thursday that its ruling includes that tax credit.When Century's Ravenswood plant shut down in 2009, more than 650 workers were laid off. Company officials have said about 450 jobs could be returned immediately if the plant reopened, and 200 jobs could be added later.Hundreds of Century Aluminum retirees lost the health benefits promised to them under union contracts in July 2011. In March of this year, the retirees voted to accept a deal that would restore part of those benefits - a step they hoped would help lead to the reopening of the plant. "Many have asked what this ruling means to the retirees and at this time, we are not sure," Karen Gorrell, a spokeswoman for the Century retirees, said in a statement Thursday. "We do know that the restart of the plant hinges on a special rate that Century can live with and that will help them operate through periods of fluctuating ... prices on aluminum products. How Century will view this PSC decision is the most important question that will have to be answered." Staff writer Paul J. Nyden contributed to this report. Reach Lori Kersey at email@example.com or 304-348-1240. Story Share Story Share Trending Now 1 Police seek car driven by woman found dead in Kanawha River 2 Facebook founder visits Cabin Creek Health Systems 3 Teen pleads guilty to involuntary manslaughter in Oakes Field shooting 4 Man allegedly cuts father in Rand over argument about sandwich 5 Rhode Island bank claims Justice companies owe $4.2M on helicopter loan Things to do Friday, Oct. 5, 2012 Previous Story W.Va. clinic got steroid suspected in meningitis outbreak Next Story


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Corn futures proved surprisingly weak on Friday. The July contract expired at sharply higher levels, but deferred futures were generally lower. That very likely marked a reaction to the latest weather forecasts, since those suggested parts of the Corn Belt could be blessed with more beneficial weather in late July. Bulls reportedly took profits on numerous long positions as well. September corn futures plunged 15.25 cents to $5.455/bushel at their Friday settlement, while December tumbled 17.5 cents to $5.0925.
The soy complex seemingly led the crop markets lower Friday. Forecasts for better weather over the Corn Belt later this month apparently undercut the new crop contracts. As in the corn pit, widespread long liquidation probably exaggerated the resulting decline. Oil futures continue suffering from Asian palm oil weakness and their position on the wrong side of domestic crush decisions. August soybean futures plummeted 43 cents to $14.29/bushel at the Friday close, while August soybean oil sank 0.31 cents to 46.22 cents/pound and August soymeal dove $15.0 to $442.9/ton.
Wheat futures could not sustain early Friday gains. Unlike corn and soybeans, the weather seemingly had little impact upon the golden grain markets, since Northern Hemisphere winter wheat harvests are probably wrapping up. Actually, optimism about potential Chinese demand and the support WASDE report boosted wheat prices. However, bulls could not sustain the upward momentum in the face of diving corn and soybean prices. September CBOT wheat slipped 1.0 cent to $6.81/bushel in late Friday trading, while September KCBT wheat was unchanged at $7.085 and September MGE futures dipped 0.75 cent to $7.665.
Short-term pessimism seemingly weighed upon cattle futures late this week. Cattle traders anticipating a seasonal second-half rally have built significant premiums into 2013 CME futures, but recent wholesale weakness and growing pessimism about the likely outcome of cash trading this week apparently kept the market under wraps. Southern Plains cattle traded at unchanged levels around noon. August cattle slipped 0.07 cents to 121.85 cents/pound at the CME close Friday, while December declined 0.12 cents to 128.32. August feeder futures were unchanged at 150.12 to end the week, whereas November climbed 0.35 cents to 155.72.
Hog futures were mixed to weak again Friday. Ongoing wholesale losses are probably the main reason for the sustained slippage in Chicago prices lately, since those declines very likely presage similar losses in cash values during the second half of the year. Discounted CME contracts look much less promising in that context. August hog futures closed 0.37 cents lower at 94.90 cents/pound Friday afternoon, while December sagged 0.10 cents to 81.35.

subset: commoncrawl


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Group NameBustyBrackets (Group ID# 33929)
Password: Irish
Yes, hard to believe it's that time of year again.
Alot of fun last year, and for the hesitant you don't know even have to know much about NCAA hoops to play, in fact sometimes that helps .
It's a little early, Selection Sunday is next week, but wanted to give plenty of time for people to sign up. The more the merrier.
Next Thursday March 15 is the deadline to lock your picks in.


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chownah wrote:Anyone have a reference to the Sutta which contains "the Buddha's own list"?
chownah wrote:Anyone have a reference to the Sutta which contains "the Buddha's own list"?
appicchato wrote:
While he (Thanissaro Bhikkhu) is not everyone's cup of tea he gets a lot of people's vote...including mine...
Mawkish1983 wrote:Incidentally, why is TB contraversial [sp?]?
Jechbi wrote:chownah wrote:Anyone have a reference to the Sutta which contains "the Buddha's own list"?
There's a pretty good listing in DN 16, the Maha-parinibbana Sutta. Do a word search (cntl F) for the word "endure" when you have the page open.
chownah wrote:I think that using this as a description for the list might lead people to ignore other teachings which might actually resonate more with their experiences and thereby actually help them more along the path than the items on the list.
phil wrote: As someone else said, if people start reading and discussing this book it might motivate me to get it from wherever it was stored away. I found it difficult to read, for some reason, and I think I found that there is a lay out of the teachings, a progression through the teachings that is a little bit too much the invention of Ven. Thanissaro, I suspect....
"The need for various ways of presenting his points on a wide range of levels meant that the body of the Buddha's teachings grew ever more varied and immense with time. As his career drew to a close, he found it necessary to highlight the essential core of the teaching, the unadorned content, so that the more timeless aspects of his message would remain clear in his followers' minds. Societies and cultures inevitably change, so that what counts as effective persuasion in one time and place may be ineffective in another. The basic structure of this/that conditionality does not change, however; the qualities of the mind needed for mastering causality and realizing the Unfabricated will always remain the same. The Buddha thus presented the Wings to Awakening as the unadorned content: the timeless, essential core.
Even here, however, the principle of this/that conditionality affected his presentation. He needed to find principles that would be relatively immune to changes in society and culture. He needed a mode of presentation that was simple enough to memorize, but not so simplistic as to distort or limit the teaching. He also needed words that would point, not to abstractions, but to the immediate realities of awareness in the listener's own mind. And, finally, he needed a useful framework for the teaching as a whole, so that those who wanted to track down specific points would not lose sight of how those points fit into the larger picture of the practice.
His solution was to give lists of personal qualities, as we noted above, rather than any of the more abstruse, philosophical doctrines that are often cited as distinctively Buddhist. These personal qualities are immediately present, to at least some extent, in every human mind. Thus they retain a constant meaning no matter what changes occur in one's mental landscape or cultural horizons. The Buddha presents them in seven alternative, interconnected lists (see Table I). Each list — when all of its implications are worked out — is equivalent to all of the others in its effects, but each takes a distinctive approach to the practice. Thus the lists provide enough variety to meet the needs of people caught in different parts of the causal network. As one searches the texts for explanations of the meaning of specific terms and factors in the lists, one finds that the lists connect — directly or indirectly — with everything there. At the same time, the categories of the lists, because they point to qualities in the mind, encourage the listener to regard the teachings not as a system in and of themselves, but as tools for looking directly into his/her own mind, where the sources and solutions to the problem of suffering lie.
As a result, although the lists are short and simple, they are an effective introduction to the teaching and a guide to its practice. From his experience with this/that conditionality on the path, the Buddha had seen that if one develops the mental qualities listed in any one of these seven sets, focuses them on the present, keeping in mind the four frames of reference and analyzing what appears to one's immediate awareness in terms of the categories of the four noble truths, one will inevitably come to the same realizations that he did: the regularity of the Dhamma and the reality of Unbinding. This was the happiness he himself sought and found, and that he wanted others to attain.
In addition to the seven lists, the Buddha left behind a monastic order designed not only so that the teachings would be memorized from generation to generation, but also so that future generations would have living examples of the teaching to learn from, and a conducive social environment in which to put them into practice. This environment was intended as a gift not only for those who would ordain, but also for those lay people who associated with the order, taking the opportunity to develop their own generosity, morality, and mindfulness in the process. Associating with others who are following a sensitive disciplinary code forces one to become more sensitive and disciplined oneself. Although our concern in this book is with the Dhamma, or the teaching of the Wings to Awakening, we should not forget that the Buddha named his teaching Dhamma-Vinaya. The Vinaya was the set of rules and regulations he established for the smooth running of the order. Dhamma is the primary member of the compound, but the Vinaya forms the context that helps keep it alive. They meet in a common focus on the factor of intention. The Vinaya uses its rules not only to foster communal order, but also to sensitize individual practitioners to the element of intention in all their actions. The Dhamma then makes use of this sensitivity as a means of fostering the insights that lead to Awakening.
After he had placed the Dhamma-Vinaya on a sure footing, the Buddha passed away into total Unbinding. This event has provoked a great deal of controversy within and without the Buddhist tradition, some people saying that if the Buddha was truly compassionate, he should have taken repeated rebirth so that the rest of humanity could continue to benefit from the excellent qualities that he had built into his mind. His total Unbinding, however, can be seen as one of his greatest kindnesses to his followers. By example he showed that, although the path to true happiness entails generosity and kindness to others, the goal of the path needs no justification in terms of anything else. The limitless freedom of Unbinding is a worthy end for its own sake. Society's usual demand that people must justify their actions by appeal to the continued smooth functioning of society or the happiness of others, has no sway over the innate worth of this level. The Buddha made use of the kammic residue remaining after his Awakening to make a free gift of the Dhamma-Vinaya to all who care about genuine happiness and health, but when those residues were exhausted, he took the noble way of true health as an example and challenge to us all.
Thus the Dhamma-Vinaya can be seen as the Buddha's generous gift to posterity. The rules of the Vinaya offer an environment for practice, while the Wings to Awakening are an invitation and guide to that practice, leading to true happiness. Anyone, anywhere, who is seriously interested in true happiness is welcome to focus on the qualities listed here, to see if this/that conditionality is indeed the causal principle governing the dimensions of time and the present, and to test if it can be mastered in a way that leads to the promised result: freedom transcending those dimensions, totally beyond measure and unbound.
retrofuturist wrote:
Yes, the Dhamma certainly is timeless.
The Buddha is cool.
I've never really understood the compulsion to twist and tweak the Dhamma to accommodate regional ignorances, superstitions and prejudices (and I'm talking equally here about the so-called "West" as I am the so-called "East"). The Dhamma points directly to the proximite causes of suffering and these remain unchanged. If the illness is the same, the cure remains the same.
David N. Snyder wrote:That is a good point about this list representing the most important teachings. In several threads here and in other forums, people often ask "what are the most essential teachings?" or "what are the most important Suttas?" And here we have the Buddha's own favorite list in the 37 factors of enlightenment.
Kim O'Hara wrote:
It turns up in an important list of the beliefs unifying Theravada and Mahayana, too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Points_Unifying_the_Theravada_and_the_Mahayana
Return to "General Theravāda discussion"
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I watched Puppy Bowl 3 on Animal Planet during halftime. It was intense!
On a more serious note, and so I can keep my Man Card, my wife hates football, and was only watching to support the Colts. Being forced to watch Prince for half an hour might have drivenher insane


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Get an overview of this hotelHotel with free breakfast, near Dollywood
Popular property highlights
Situated in Pigeon Forge, this hotel is 0.8 mi (1.3 km) from Big Top Arcade and 1.5 mi (2.4 km) from Dollywood. Patriot Park and Fantasy Golf are also within 1 mi (2 km).
Hotel Features
Along with an outdoor pool, this hotel has a seasonal outdoor pool and a children's pool. Free full breakfast, free WiFi in public areas, and free self parking are also provided. Other amenities include laundry facilities, a 24-hour front desk, and a picnic area.
Room Amenities
All 127 rooms provide conveniences like refrigerators and microwaves, plus free WiFi and flat-screen TVs with cable channels. Other amenities available to guests include coffee makers, free local calls, and hair dryers.
Guest Highlights
- Good location
- Breakfast
- Pool
- Helpful staff
- Clean guestrooms
- Bathrooms could've been nicer
Quality Inn And Suites Dollywood
Hotel Amenities
Hotel Amenities
Quality Inn And Suites Dollywood features an outdoor pool and a children's pool. Public areas are equipped with complimentary wireless Internet access. A complimentary breakfast is offered each morning. This Pigeon Forge hotel also offers gift shops/newsstands, a picnic area, and laundry facilities. Complimentary self parking is available on site.
- Outdoor pool
- Children's pool
- 24-hour front desk
- Total number of rooms - 127
- Number of floors - 3
- Free breakfast
- Elevator/lift
- Gift shops or newsstand
- Laundry facilities
- RV, bus, truck parking
- Picnic area
- Safe-deposit box at front desk
- Free self parking
- Outdoor seasonal pool
- Free WiFi
Family Friendly Amenities
- Family Hotel
- Outdoor pool
- Children's pool
- Free Wi-Fi
- Laundry facilities
- Refrigerator
- Microwave
Available in all rooms: Free WiFi
Available in some public areas: Free WiFi
Free self parking, RV, bus, truck parking
Room Amenities
- Flat-panel TV
- Free WiFi
- Hair dryer
- In-room safe
- Desk
- Premium TV channels
- Pay movies
- Air conditioning
- Free local calls
- Cable TV service
- Coffee/tea maker
- Iron/ironing board
- Microwave
- Refrigerator
Where to Eat
A complimentary full breakfast is served each morning between 7 AM and 10 AM.
Nearby Things to Do
An outdoor pool and a children's pool are on site.
- Golfing nearby
Hotel Policies
Check-in time starts at 3 PM
Check-out time is 11 AM
Payment types
Children and extra beds
- Children are welcome.
- Kids stay free! Children 18 years old and younger stay free when using existing bedding.
- Pets not allowed
You need to know
Extra-person charges may apply and vary depending on property policy.
Hotel Name
- Quality Dollywood
- Quality Dollywood Pigeon Forge
- Quality Inn Dollywood
- Quality Inn Dollywood Pigeon Forge
We should mention
Children 18 years old and younger stay free when occupying the parent or guardian's room, using existing bedding.


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Peyton Manning called Indianapolis newspaper reporters to say thanks
Peyton Manning spent part of his Thursday morning calling newspaper reporters in Indianapolis to thank them for the work they did during his 14 years with the Colts.
How rare is that nod to Miss Manners? One of the Indianapolis Star reporters who received a call said it was the first time a departing Colts player had ever contacted him to say goodbye.
"Manning said he hoped he could stay with Colts, but understands the biz," Wilson wrote in a later tweet. "He told me to pass along to the fans how much he appreciated them. That's the first time I've ever received a good-bye call from a Colts player in my journalism career. Classy move. Wished him the best."
You get the feeling that when Peyton's twins are old enough, he's going to be the type of dad to leave notes in their lunchboxes.


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Foster steps forward to join Baylor Board
From El Paso to Waco, Paul Foster, BBA '79, has sought out ways to empower others through education all across Texas.
At Baylor, Foster and his wife, Alejandra, have given generously to create the Paul L. Foster Success Center, a home for student services such as academic advising, tutoring, and career and professional development, and the newly named Paul L. Foster Campus for Business and Innovation, a new home for the business school slated to begin construction this winter.
Elsewhere across the state, the Fosters established Texas Tech's medical school in El Paso and have supported the University of Texas at El Paso. Paul Foster is a former member of the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board and, since 2007, has served on the University of Texas System Board of Regents (currently as vice chairman).
This week, it was announced that Foster is stepping forward yet again to serve on the Baylor University Board of Regents. He will begin a three-year term at the Board's next meeting in July. With Foster's addition, 90% of Baylor's Board (26 out of 29 members) are Baylor graduates.
"I firmly believe that the opportunities afforded to me throughout my life are very much a result of my educational experiences at Baylor, and I find it very rewarding to be able to give back to the university that prepared me for personal and professional success," said Foster upon his appointment. "I look forward to serving during this exciting time in the history of Baylor University."
Sic 'em, Paul Foster!


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Natural Resources & the Environment
Alaska has abundant natural resources in its land, waters, fish and game, and renewable and non-renewable assets. The Alaska Department of Law helps to ensure that the state's natural resources are managed and allocated by state agencies in a manner that is consistent with the law, and that persons who illegally take or damage our natural resources are prosecuted and, if possible, required to make reparation. Cases involving natural resources and the environment are handled by the Environmental, and Natural Resources sections of the Civil Division, and by the Office of Special Prosecutions and Appeals and District Attorney's Offices around the state in the Criminal Division.
The department defends against legal challenges to actions taken by the state's natural resource agencies, and pursues legal actions both civil and criminal against persons who are illegally using, damaging, or destroying Alaska's lands, waters, or renewable natural resources. It helps protect our environment by pursuing persons who illegally release hazardous substances and requiring them to clean up the damage. It protects Alaskans' interests by making sure that the state receives the oil, gas, and mineral royalty and tax revenues to which it is entitled for current and past production, defending against challenges to state oil and gas lease sale programs, and protecting the state's title to resource-rich lands.


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Pipeline info meeting in Langley draws crowd
According to Kinder Morgan, a total of 52 people — many of whom are property owners — turned out to at an open house for the proposed Trans Mountain oil pipeline expansion held at Walnut Grove Secondary on Thursday night.
Many people don't realize that 17 kilometres of pipeline already runs through Langley, right through many urban neighbourhoods in Walnut Grove. Kinder Morgan is proposing to twin that pipeline and double the amount of oil pumped through those lines.
Several citizens with a new group called Pipe Up Network, who are opposed to the expansion project, set up an information booth outside the meeting on Thursday.
"A lot of residents we have talked to were shocked to know that a pipeline already runs through Langley," said local resident Kevin Harper who joined Pipe Up Network, a group of concerned citizens from Burnaby to Hope.
Wendy Major, a retired school teacher in Chilliwack, said a bitumen spill in Kalamazoo, Michigan, in 2010 "caused health problems for the people and devastated local business."
That pipeline, owned by Enbridge Energy Partners, reportedly spilled an estimated 843,000 gallons of diluted bitumen into a tributary of the Kalamazoo River. The cleanup and health impacts raised questions about B.C.'s ability to respond to a similar disaster.
Kinder Morgan wants to build a second pipeline from Alberta through B.C. to a shipping port in Burnaby. It would increase daily capacity to 750,000 barrels from the current 300,000 barrels.
"It's a 60-year-old pipeline that has diluted bitumen running through it. They want to run 750,000 barrels per day through those lines.
"It's scary to think of," said Harper. He said the Huntingdon aquifer, several waterways and a bird sanctuary in Langley are all on the pipeline route.
"When they put in this pipeline 60 years ago, this was all farmland," said Major. She taught at an elementary school that has a pipeline running right through the playground there.
"They don't even have a definite plan for the second line so we are very worried. Now they are dealing with running a new pipeline through heavily populated areas," she said.
Inside the meeting, several land owners wanted to be re-assured that Kinder Morgan can't just go on their property and start digging to put in a new pipe.
At least a dozen representatives from Kinder Morgan (TransMountain) were on hand at the meeting, wearing visible green jackets, ready to answer questions.
But one question they couldn't answer is what the exact route of the twin pipeline will be.
There is a routing team in place trying to determine a corridor for the new pipes to be put in. The map of that new line will start a new round of public meetings.
More Oil Means More Tankers
Currently, of the many deep draft vessels coming into Vancouver harbour each month, only eight are oil tankers. If the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion gets approved, that number will increase to around 25 oil tankers. If approved, the pipeline could start operating in 2017.
Kinder Morgan runs a total of 17 km of pipeline through Langley, starting in the Port Kells industrial area, heading east through urban areas of Walnut Grove, through Yorkson Creek, across Belmont Golf Course and across the Salmon River, cutting through West Creek Watershed, along the nature reserve at Ponder Park, into the hills above Glen Valley and into rural areas past Nathan Creek.
Here is a link to the Langley map: http://pipeupnetwork.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/langley-township-kinder-morgan-transmountain-pipeline-route-copy.pdf.


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The Produce Mom recently visited the National Basketball Association and the Women's National Basketball Association in New York City, to discuss the Find Your Favorite program.
The objective of the trip was to meet with the NBA officials in the office of social responsibility, who oversee NBA Cares, NBA Fit and NBA Green for both associations.
The Produce Mom is the official blog of the Indianapolis Fruit Co., Indianapolis, written by marketing manager, Lori Taylor. She visted the basketball associations April 10,
Taylor met with the two Associations specifically because Tamika Catchings, forward for the Indiana Fever, Indianapolis, is one of two Find Your Favorite national spokespersons.
Find Your Favorite is a campaign that encourages Indianapolis Public School students and their families to try new fruits and vegetables by connecting fruits and vegetables to people who represent the interests and dreams of youth. The goal of the campaign is to promote healthy choices and healthy eating.
This in-school initiative offers educational materials about the affordability and seasonality of fresh produce and grocery offers and coupons which will be provided by produce industry vendors and partners of Indianapolis Fruit Company.
So far, the program is in 67 Indianapolis Public Schools, and there are plans to extend its reach.


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BP Comment Quick Links
|Strength of Schedule Report
May 20, 2013
Baseball Therapy
Would the Astros' Piggyback Starters Model Work in the Majors?
A few weeks ago, I wrote an article in which I suggested that teams might benefit from going to a model that gets rid of the traditional starting pitcher. Instead of having five men who are expected to go 6-7 innings over 100 pitches, I suggested a model in which three pairs of pitchers each throw 50 pitches, and on the third day, they would pitch again, in fulfillment… I should stop there. I argued that a team that committed to that model could leverage a group of (cheap!) pitchers who were good for a couple innings, but not for six. In this way, a team could get the same sort of results that they might expect from having a bunch of pretty good starters, but for a fraction of the (David) Price.
Three days later, Houston Astros GM Jeff Luhnow announced that his organization would be using a similar model in their minor league affiliates. Luhnow said at the time that the goal was to allow the team to get a good look at eight pitchers (in four pairs, with one member of the pair throwing 75 pitches and the other 50, and the two switching after three days) rather than five in the traditional model. Coincidence? Actually, yeah. On both ends.
The Astros have quietly abandoned the idea at the Triple-A level, seemingly because several key members of their "rotation" were called up to the big club. If we take the Astros at their word, this arrangement makes perfect sense. A tandem starter model does allow for the team to get a good look at more than five guys, and the outcomes of minor league games don't matter much. Luhnow stated that the Astros have no desire to do this at the major league level.
But what if they did?
Warning! Gory Mathematical Details Ahead!
This sort of decision happens in the traditional starter model as well. The manager must make a decision between the value of the extra inning that the starter might give him versus the increased probability that a pinch hitter might help to score a desperately needed run. But in the traditional model, the manager does it with the luxury of a six- or seven-man bullpen. If there are eight "starters," a team could really carry only four relievers, meaning that the relative cost of pinch hitting, even in a high-leverage at-bat, just went up. Who would have thought that teams would miss having those two extra lousy relievers?
In the American League, this wouldn't be an issue because of the DH, so I think an AL team would be much more likely to adopt this model. And as I have to keep reminding myself (and others), the Astros are now in the American League. But that four-man bullpen is still an issue. The problem with a small bullpen is that using a reliever not only affects today's game but tomorrow's. Use a guy for too long, or for too many days in a row, and suddenly he can't pitch the next day and you're down to a two- or three-man micro-bullpen. It did lead me to consider a variation on the Astros model in which the "starting" staff consisted of seven pitchers (rather than eight). Each pitcher started on a day of the week (for example, Monday) and threw 75 pitches, then rested for three days (Tuesday-Thursday), pitched on the fourth day (Friday) in relief, throwing 50 pitches, rested for two days (Saturday and Sunday), and then started the cycle again on Monday. This could allow for a team to gain a fifth man in the bullpen, but that's still a big handicap. Or is it?
It's easy to hear "five-man bullpen" and assume that the plan wouldn't work. We are all creatures of our age, and we've been trained to think about bullpens in a specific way. The average number of relievers used in a game has gone up over time. We live in the era of the LOOGY and the one-inning closer. We've been trained to believe that you need a lot of bodies in the bullpen. Maybe the problem is that we're thinking about the way things are now, rather than what they could be.
Let's first look at what could be gained on the starting end of such a plan. In my original piece, I identified 15 pitchers (Carl Pavano, Jake Arrieta, Tommy Hunter, Colby Lewis, Justin Germano, Drew Hutchison, Brandon Beachy, Bud Norris, Hisashi Iwakuma, Charlie Morton, Ryan Vogelsong, Vance Worley, Jered Weaver, Joe Kelly, and Mike Minor) who, in 2012, had an xFIP in their first 50 pitches that was at or below 3.75 but got significantly worse after that. Since we have one pitcher throwing 75 pitches, and the other 50, let's look only at what might happen during the first 50 pitches of the "starter's" 75 and the 50 pitches of the first "reliever's" tenure. Even if they made it only to the original cutoff of 3.75, the average starter ERA in 2012 was 4.19. I estimated that 100 pitches bought a team about six innings' worth of pitching. That's worth 47.5 runs. Call it four and a half wins over the average starting pitcher.
Now, let's talk about what happens between pitches 50 and 75 for the "starter." Those 15 pitchers had a combined xFIP of 4.41 between those two points. Now, those 25 pitches are pitches that are thrown by one of our piggyback starters, because they are working in tandem. In a real game, they'd probably be thrown by a seventh-inning reliever. If we make the assumption that the reliever was league average, he would have an ERA of 3.64. Figure that 25 pitches would buy an inning and a half, and our "starter" is at a 20-run disadvantage over the standard league-average reliever over 162 games. Still, we assume that over those 125 pitches, our tandem starters clear about 2.5 wins worth of value over and above what we might expect from those 125 pitches as thrown by starters and middle relievers.
Then there's the matter of the cost savings that a team would get from relying on pitchers whom the market has devalued. That money could be invested in upgrades elsewhere on the team, perhaps in the bullpen or for the hitters. If a team invested well, it might squeeze out some extra runs from the extra money it saved by going to the tandem model. But let's for a moment assume that they derive no extra value. This is strictly a cost-saving move on their part.
Can we show that having a smaller bullpen would have a penalty of more than 25 runs over the course of a season? First, let's look at how much work the bullpen will need to take on per game. I found that in 2012, the average start lasted 17.4 outs, which is almost six innings. I also estimated that 50 pitches would get a starter through about three innings. Running the same sort of analysis, we see that in 75 pitches, a pitcher got through a mean of 13.7 outs, and a median of 14 outs. Call that 3 2/3, for something just shy of seven innings. Our tandem model means that we have fewer guys in the bullpen, but fewer innings for them to pitch.
In fact, while only 127 complete games happened in 2012 (about four per team, roughly three percent of games), judging by the distributions of what starters were able to accomplish in 50 pitches, and then in 75 pitches, a team could expect the two tandem buddies to record 27 outs in about 10 percent of games. So, there would be more nights in which the bullpen wouldn't need to pitch—assuming, of course, that a manager would stick with the second pitcher into the late innings of a close game. And this brings up another issue: in order for a small bullpen to work, a team would need to allow their second starter to throw his 50 pitches, even if it means that he's throwing pitch no. 43 in the eighth inning of a close game with runners on.
The way the modern game has evolved, this is when managers start deploying seven-pitches-and-out specialists, mostly to gain the platoon advantage. With a lot of bodies down in the bullpen, there's always someone new to bring in. And in a high-leverage situation, a fresh pitcher with the platoon advantage is going to at least look a lot more enticing (and often, be a better option) for this particular batter. Especially compared to the failed starter in his third inning who doesn't have the platoon advantage. And double especially with everyone watching because it's now the eighth inning.
If we assume that gaining a platoon advantage is worth 20 points of OBP, and the cost of turning an out into a time on base is roughly .75 runs (very back of the envelope here), then over about 60-70 PA in which a team was not able to gain a platoon advantage (but would have otherwise), it surrenders back one of those wins. In 2012, pitchers had the handedness advantage against 39 percent of hitters in the first inning, 41 percent in the second through fourth inning, 44 percent in the fifth inning, and 46 percent in the sixth. In the seventh, it jumped to 52 percent, followed by 53 percent and 49 percent in the eighth and ninth. It looks as though bullpen maneuvering gains the platoon advantage for the pitching team (roughly) an extra 10 percent from the early (starter) innings to the later innings. If a pitcher faces 4.5 batters per inning, he will face an extra 73 batters without the handedness advantage that otherwise would have been handled by a LOOGY or ROOGY. Not only that, but they are high-leverage situations, which means their influence is outsized. There goes at least one win.
To gain the 25-run advantage that I mentioned above, and to even begin to think about allowing a team to survive on a small bullpen, a manager would have to (most of the time) skip playing match-up ball in the seventh or eighth inning. It's easy to see that a manager is handling a particular decision differently than all the other managers when the situation is highly emotionally charged. It's not as easy to see the runs that didn't score in the top of the fifth. One comfort of the modern bullpen is that it's built to handle high-leverage situations through the sheer number of guys out there, while providing cannon fodder for low-leverage situations. The tandem starter model, because it requires so many roster spots to be burned on starters, doesn't offer many of these comforts. Sometimes you have to let the second "starter" handle a high-leverage, late-inning situation, and sometimes you have to pitch your closer in mop-up duty because there's no one else left.
There's also a hidden assumption that a guy who has been a starter his whole career can pitch just as effectively in the third inning as he can in the eighth inning, even if it's just his third inning of work. That's a big assumption. We've been trained to believe that only special pitchers can handle those situations, but we know so little about what actually happens in those situations.
Then there's the matter of extra innings. One nice thing about a six- or seven-man bullpen is that if a manager sees the game careening toward extra frames, he can switch to using his relievers for an inning or two, rather than as matchup artists. That way, if it becomes a war of attrition, he can last longer before #weirdbaseball starts happening. The manager of a tandem starting team has to be more careful in using his relievers to go multiple innings because he doesn't have that many, and he may need to keep one or two at least serviceable for tomorrow.
Now, for what it's worth, there's a cost-benefit analysis to be done here. Yes, the tandem-starter team will lose a game in the 12th with their fourth outfielder taking the loss because he had to pitch, while the other team has three guys sitting out in the pen eating sunflower seeds. But then again, a 12-inning game doesn't happen all that often. The point of the game is not to avoid having your fourth outfielder pitch, it's to win more games. If the strategy that you choose means that you gain more on the front end, and the cost is a couple of comic moments on the highlight reel and a smaller number of wins surrendered through these extra-inning games, then it's a good strategy.
Would it Work?
There would be a cost to be paid in the form of not being able to play match-up ball, particularly in gaining a platoon advantage, as much in higher-leverage situations with relievers. This would probably be worth 10 runs, but the situations would be higher leverage and might actually cost more than one win. There may also be a penalty for a "starting" pitcher who is not trained to pitch in late-inning, high-leverage situations, but is attempting to do so anyway (this has never really been tested). Further, the team will lose some extra-inning games through bullpen attrition (and if you figure that with a "normal" bullpen, a team has a 50/50 shot in an extra-inning game, but having a position player pitch is essentially giving up, every game lost to attrition is half a win lost) and some fraction from having to rely on a lesser reliever because the closer had to pitch a lot recently.
So, now we're down to some unknowns. The success of the piggyback starter model that the Astros have introduced in the minors would probably depend on how good a front office is at spending extra cash on offensive talent. In fairness, that can have two effects, both driving up a team's runs scored numbers and leading to fewer tense close-and-late situations. But there might be a penalty for asking the second "starter" to pitch in a role to which he is not accustomed.
So, which do you believe is more powerful? Is it the ability of a front office to invest a significant cost-savings in offensive and bullpen talent to produce value elsewhere? Is it the penalty to be paid for asking a pitcher to fill a role that just hasn't really existed much before? And there's still the matter of finding actual pitchers who would take part in such a crazy scheme, not to mention the health aspect.
There is a set of circumstance in which you could argue that this system could actually turn a profit. But is that profit worth restructuring the entirety of how a pitching staff is conceptualized?
Russell A. Carleton is an author of Baseball Prospectus. Follow @pizzacutter4
19 comments have been left for this article.
BP Comment Quick Links
I think you buried one of the more interesting aspects of the analysis-- the ability to construct a "rotation" from pitchers who are not worth very much on the open market. As long as you're the only one pursuing this strategy, it should be inexpensive to target starters who lack the stamina to be efficient after 50-75 pitches. This does raise a couple questions:
May 20, 2013 07:09 AM
The average MLB pitcher makes 2.7 million per year. So, 8 guys at that rate is 21.6 million. Looking through salary data, a lot of those guys made under a million bucks last year (Fundraiser will be next week.) A team could probably get above average performance, maybe for savings around 10 million.
May 20, 2013 07:35 AM
The Rockies tried the tandem starter plan midway through last season and got uniformly savaged in the papers and across MLB national outlets for doing so. They finally gave up when the young arms who envisioned themselves as Starters, groused and pouted too much about the process.
May 20, 2013 07:50 AM
There is an advantage to being able to use the tandem starter model to gain platoon advantage, if your two starters are of different handedness. Because the other team knows that it will be a lefty then a righty (or vice versa), they can't gain as much platoon advantage with their starting lineup. Maybe the ability to gain the platoon advantage that you lose in the 8th inning is canceled out by the extra platoon advantages you gain in the 5th inning. If anything, it seems that a tandem starters model is built around trying to win the game in the 5th inning through prevention than in the 8th inning through strategy.
May 20, 2013 08:07 AM
This effect is strengthened if you don't stick to a strict "75, then 50" split. In other words, if the opposing manager stacks his lineup with lefties against your starting RHP, maybe he gets pulled after 50 pitches, and his tandem LHP comes in to throw 75.
May 20, 2013 08:52 AM
When kicking this idea around in my head I always envisioned making each pairing a lefty and a righty to cause the other team lineup difficulties. I also envisioned one of the bullpen pitchers as a knuckleballer who could eat as many innings as needed in extra inning games.
May 20, 2013 08:14 AM
Other teams have tried this, though more to limit pitch counts in younger/rehabbing pitchers. The Reds were one. IIRC, the managers had difficulty with this and the players preferred better-defined roles.
May 20, 2013 09:01 AM
If there is a(nother) great unexplored frontier in Sabermetrics, it's implementation research. Everyone knows that smoking is bad, but people still smoke. How to convince people to put down the cigarettes, and holding on to pitching wins? Want a Sabermetric Nobel prize... work on that one.
May 20, 2013 10:34 AM
And, it's not necessarily an all-or-nothing strategy. A team could use it for, say, the 3, 4 and 5 slots in the rotation.
May 20, 2013 10:06 AM
1) The A's Beloit Snappers have sort have been doing this this year with Michael Ynoa/Dakota Bacus/RandomFinisher.
May 20, 2013 15:12 PM
MLB teams out of contention should give this a try in the latter half of the year...why not experiment when you have nothing to lose?
May 20, 2013 15:14 PM
Shaun P.
This is hinted at above but not expressly said, so I'll say it: if the "closer" was not of the one inning save-generating only guy, but what they used to call a "fireman", this would simplify some of the problems.
May 20, 2013 15:30 PM
Yeah, you'd pretty much need to have everyone in the pen able to go multiple innings, when necessary, and a 2-to-3-inning fireman/closer would be nice to have, but the end result of this plan is that you probably do spread out the saves. And yeah... some guys would probably carp about that.
May 20, 2013 18:05 PM
Kris Ericson
I'd like to chip in along the ideas of the knuckler/rubber arm for long bullpen stints...wouldn't this be a swell place for a dual threat in the Owings/Kieschnick motif? Hit the 10th or 11th inning and need a pitching change/pinch hitter, voila, here's both!
May 20, 2013 17:58 PM
You'd often end up with someone who can productively pitch more than just 50-75 pitches per outing. Given that you presumably have a competent minor league system, at times, you should develop some guys who can effectively pitch a full starters workload. You also need to have something in place for the days that one of your guys gets shelled and is out in the first or second inning. It seems to me that this would destroy your bullpen that much more than a conventional larger pen - either that, or you have to use the next day's guy on shorter rest or something.
May 21, 2013 05:01 AM
I've always tossed around the idea of having a LHP/RHP tandem, and teaching them both to play the outfield--clearly they'd have the arms to play, it would just be working on routes to the ball and knowing when to throw where.
May 21, 2013 08:13 AM
I always wondered about the whole "official scorekeeper conferring the win" thing where the SP doesn't go 5 innings. From what I've heard, the OS gives the W to the relief pitcher who was most effective. What if the SP goes 3 innings and the 2 RP's each go 3 innings and give up the same number of H, BB, R, etc.? Has that ever happened, where a RP who was given a W by an OS posted a line arguably inferior to the line posted by a RP teammate in the same game?
May 21, 2013 10:29 AM
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CLEARLAKE -- The jogger hit by a minivan last week talked for the first time since the incident Thursday, according to his girlfriend.
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The last time I wrote about RightOutTV, they were just getting started with their mission of providing an outlet for music videos by LGBT musicians. A year later, the site is about to give out its first awards. They posted the nominees for the first RightOutTV Music Video Awards. OK, it's not MTV, but the channel, started by Sugarbeach duo Marlee Walchuk and Tully Callender, has remained committed to their mission and the list is a healthy representation of the past year's offerings by queer musicians. They even have judges!
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2401 Truxton Road, Suite 103, San Diego 92106
2169 Fenton Parkway, Suite 103, San Diego 92108
If it has anything to do with ice cream, it has everything to do with Cold Stone Creamery. From unique ice cream creations to smoothies, cakes and shakes nobody serves up the ultimate ice cream experience like Cold Stone Creamery. It starts with using the highest quality ingredients, our fresh made daily premium ice cream and ends with our signature process for preparing your custom creation on a frozen granite stone.
Crossroads at House of Blue San Diego
15% Off food and non-alcoholic beverages
1055 5th Avenue, San Diego CA 92101
Crossroads at House of Blues® is a premier restaurant and entertainment venue located in San Diego's downtown business district. Crossroads at House of Blues features a tantalizing new menu inspired by celebrity chef, Aarón Sanchez. Enjoy signature dishes such as shrimp & grits, short rib meatball sliders and fire-grilled flatbreads plus some new twists on House of Blues favorites like jambalaya, slow-smoked pulled pork, signature burgers, salads and steaks. Its food that's bold and classic yet contemporary. Open nightly for dinner, Crossroads at House of Blues is truly the place where food, music & art intersect!
DiMille's Italian Restaurant + Lounge
15% off food
*Up to four guests per membercard card/Compadres Perks Coupon
3492 Adams Avenue, Normal Heights, CA, 92116
We opened for business on October 28, 1978 under the direction and guidance of Mamma and Pappa DiMille. The recipes for all the menu items were developed by Mamma DiMille which included the same recipes she had learned from her mother and grandmother, and had been cooking for her own family for years. During this time, her sons were active as cooks, waiters, dishwashers, and handymen. It was also during this time that Pappa DiMille taught the boys how to run a business. It was in early 1981 that Mamma and Pappa DiMille decided to step down and turn control of the business over to their sons. Since that time, DiMille's has gone through two major remodels to meet the demand of its' customers. The addition of the lounge and patio in 1988 were made to offer a new and exciting outdoor dining experience and an ideal facility for large banquets. Today, the brothers are fully active in all areas of the restaurant, and take pride in training every employee to their standards of excellence.
Don Chido
20% off
Not to be combined with other discounts, happy hour or nightly specials.
527 5th Ave., San Diego, CA 92101
Don Chido, an authentic, stylish Mexican eatery in the heart of San Diego's Gaslamp Quarter. The menu showcases regionally influenced, handcrafted Mexican cooking that features locally sourced and quality fresh ingredients. Our authentic Santa Maria Argentine grill is designed to cook mouth-watering, wood-fired meats and other dishes. To further tease the palette, we offer a rustic selection of local wines from Mexico and Spain along with a progressive variety of infused tequilas and regional mescals. Don Chido combines a classic, home-style Mexican cuisine with a stylishly diverse and electric atmosphere that delivers a distinctive lunch, dinner, and late-night dining experience!
Donut Touch
10% off
6755 Mira Mesa Blvd, San Diego, CA 92121-4336
12033 Scripps Summit Dr, San Diego, CA 92131-3636
16621 Dove Canyon Rd Ste 116, San Diego, CA 92127
Donut Touch offers a diverse selection of award-winning donuts made with only the finest of ingredients. In addition to our delicious donuts, we bake a wide assortment of pastries and baked goods, including bagels, muffins, croissants, and fresh baked bread. For those looking for something a little heartier, we offer a variety of deli-style sandwiches using Boar's Head premium deli meats.
Fanatics Authentic
15% off any regular priced items
* Eligible at Fanatics kiosk locations inside Petco Park only. Valid one time per visit
Petco Park Fanatics Authentic kiosk locations
Mounted Memories is proud to present the new Fanatics Authentic, the Premier Destination for Authentic Autographed Memorabilia and Collectibles online. We are proud to bring the unmatched reputation of Mounted Memories authenticity to a brand new business that will bring customers never before seen authentic collectibles. Fanatics Authentic is fully licensed by all the major sports leagues, Player Associations and Universities and delivers a 100% genuine product offering.. Fanatics Authentic also has exclusive Athlete relationships with many of the biggest superstars in Sports today.
Firehouse Subs of America
Free chips and medium drink with the purchase of a sub.
132 North El Camino Real, Encinitas, CA, 92024
3625 Midway Dr.Ste. 20A, San Diego, CA, 92110
880 W. Valley Parkway, Escondido, CA, 92025
People come back when they're treated well and fed well. Turns out, people absolutely LOVE the same things we do - the best meats, cheeses, and toppings we can find. People come back again and again because, unlike other sub places, we steam our meats and cheeses, releasing a rush of flavors, then stuff a serving that's way over code on one of our toasted private-recipe sub rolls. It's a winning combination that satisfies ravenous appetites and the value-conscious alike.
FOX Sports San Diego Grill
15% Off
1 Park Boulevard, San Diego, 92101
FOX Sports San Diego Grill offers diners upscale and contemporary renditions of American cuisine classics, with an all-star menu that fuses bold and unique flavors with the freshest local ingredients. Sports aficionados and dining enthusiasts alike will enjoy the comfortable surroundings and two of America's favorites pastimes - exciting sports and incredible food. Watch the sunset from our outdoor patio with a signature cocktail or a glass of wine. You will feel right at home in the warm and inviting design of the Grill, with both indoor and outdoor dining areas, 26 plasma screen TVs and a state-of-the-art integrated A/V stereo sound system.
Hooley's Irish Pub and Grill
15% Off Food
* Up To 4 Guests Per member card/Compadres Perks coupon.
5500 Grossmont Center Drive #277, La Mesa 91942
2955 Jamacha Road, Ste. 21, San Diego 92019
Come experience what Foodies have been talking about for years. Hooleys Irish Pub & Grill is truly an East county gem that embodies what a "Real Pub" is all about. We have taken Pub Fare to another level with traditional favorites and signature items. Home of the famous Corned Beef Taco and the Perfect Pint, Hooleys also offers a great craft beer and whiskey selection. Two locations to enjoy and watch all your favorite sports. La Mesa in Grossmont Center and Rancho San Diego next to Edwards Cinema.
House of Blues San Diego
10% Off Food and Beverage Minimum.
For parties of 50 or more
*Concert offer is subject to availability.
1055 5th Avenue, San Diego CA 92101
If you're looking for a truly unique venue in the Gaslamp, the House of Blues on Fifth is sure to please. Dedicated to celebrating the history of Southern culture and African American artistic contributions to music and art, House of Blues is home to regular concert opportunities, featuring a diverse range of artistic genres. With 13 clubs around the country, each House of Blues is committed to delivering the best live music and restaurant experience possible all while celebrating the diversity and brotherhood of world cultures.
Jimmy's Famous American Tavern
25% Off Food
* Parties Of 4 Or Smaller
4990 North Harbor Drive, San Diego, 92106
JFAT represents a modern day version of the original 'tavern' concept which was initially created as local establishment for eating, drinking, and socializing. We provide an upscale, yet casual and warm atmosphere in which our menu offers a diverse combination of classic, regional American dishes that are updated and elevated to a new level of quality in other words, 'comfort food for foodies'. With every dish we've tried to stick to the basics simply prepared from the highest quality ingredients available and delivered with bold and 'crave-able' flavors. To complement our food we offer our spin on classic cocktails, craft beers, and a careful selection of domestically produced wines.
K1 Speed
$5 off Arrive and Drive Racing with promo code 10290
*Redeemable only at counter with promo code. Valid for one person Monday through Friday per member card or Compadres Perks Coupons. Not to be combined with other offers, race or group packages. Adult racers must be at least 4'10'', junior racers must be 4' to 4'9''.
6212 Corte Del Abeto, Carlsbad , CA 92011
1709 Main St, San Diego, CA 92101
Founded in 2003, K1 Speed is now the premier karting company in America. With kart racing centers nationwide, K1 Speed brings the thrill and excitement of indoor karting to a large audience. Offering highly-advanced and environmentally-friendly electric go karts as well as large indoor entertainment venues that feature authentic racing memorabilia, pit cafes, meeting rooms and pool tables, K1 Speed is a great place to visit with family and friends or to host a corporate event or party.
Knotty Barrel
20% off
*Not to be used during happy hour or for nightly specials.
844 Market Street, San Diego, 92106
Knotty Barrel is home to East Village's best Gastropub, featuring fine, locally-sourced food and a selection of over 100 local, domestic and imported beers from around the world, including 22 craft beers on tap. We pride ourselves on working with local farmers and vendors to provide our guests with the freshest ingredients possible. Some signature ingredients our Executive Chef, Andre Alto, enjoys working with our Duroc pork, all natural chicken, buffalo and Certified Angus Beef. And you can rest assured that all our our meats are hormone and pesticide free.
Las Americas Premium Outlets, a Simon Mall
Free VIP Coupon Book to be redeemed at the Information Center.
* Valid at both Carlsbad and Las Americas Premuim Outlets.
4211 Camino de la Plaza, San Diego, 92173
Located just 20 minutes south of downtown San Diego, Las Americas Premium Outlets is known by it's beautiful courtyards with fountains, statues and elegant architecture. Find impressive savings of 25%-65% everyday at 125 stores from the world's leading designers and brand names including Ann Taylor, Brooks Brothers, Coach, Hugo Boss, J.Crew, Kenneth Cole, Lacoste, Michael Kors, Nautica, Puma, Tommy Bahama, True Religion Brand Jeans, Victoria's Secret and more. Take the last U.S. Exit to Camino de la Plaza from the 5 or 805 freeway.
Lazy Dog Restaurant LLC
One Complimentary grilled garlic flatbread
* One flatbread per table per visit
Westfield Mission Valley West - 1202 Camino Del Rio North, San Diego, CA, 92101
Whether you're sitting by the fire or bellying up to the bar, the servers and bartenders know what you like and treat you like you're one of the family. The lodge has cold beer, hot chocolate, incredible food and great music, making it the place to be in town. Just like the lodge in Jackson Hole, the Lazy Dog offers the perfect environment for all ages, making the entire restaurant the place to be for a quick dinner with the family, a meandering meal with friends or a night out on the town.
Live Wire
Happy Hour All Day
2103 El Cajon Boulevard, San Diego, 92104
In October 1992, Joe Austin and Sam Chammas opened Live Wire. Named after their college radio station, KCR-"the live wire", the bar was all about great music and kick ass beers. Almost 20 years later, not much has changed and why should it? Craft beers, pint-sized cocktails, and a kick ass jukebox. Just follow the historic flashing sign out front "LIVE WIRE COLD BEER WARM FRIENDS".
Maderas Golf Club
Up to 40% off a round of golf, up to four people. To be redeemed only online or via phone. Visit www.maderasgolf.com or call 858.451.8100 to book today. Use Promo code PADRES15
* Subject to availability. Not for walk up use.
17750 Old Coach Road, Poway 92064
Tucked away amidst the rolling hills of north San Diego, just minutes from San Diego's downtown is Maderas Golf Club. A combination of golf strategy and design mastery, this Johnny Miller and Robert Muir Graves design takes the concept of upscale golf to exhilarating levels. Beauty and challenge are both here, as holes wind through the cliffs, rock outcroppings, creeks, and forests of the inland country of north San Diego. Golf Digest rated Maderas Golf Club a Top 100 Greatest Public Golf Courses in America for 2013-14.
Maritime Museum of San Diego
$2 off general admission, up to four people per membership card/Compadres Perks Coupon.
*Can't be used for special events.
1492 North Harbor Dr., San Diego, CA 92101
The Maritime Museum of San Diego enjoys a worldwide reputation for excellence in restoring, maintaining and operating historic vessels. The museum has one of the world's finest collections of historic ships, including the world's oldest active ship the Star of India.The Museum displays permanent and temporary exhibits on maritime history, commerce and exploration and stages popular public events such as "The Chocolate Festival", "Pirate Buccaneer Birthday Bash", "Festival of Sail each Labor Day weekend", and family sleepovers on the Star of India. Thousands of school children from throughout Southern California visit the museum each year for a variety of dockside and at-sea educational programs. The museum's schooner Californian takes passengers out for Tall Ship Adventures, sailing out into the Pacific Ocean off Point Loma and beyond for extended range trips. The museum's ships play host to more than 200 private events each year including weddings, private parties, meeting and seminars, corporate events and charters.
Omni San Diego Hotel
$179 per night (plus tax) Member Rate
* Based On Availability at time of reservation. Available to Season Members only.
675 L Street, San Diego, 92101
The Omni San Diego Hotel offers you the perfect escape, with newly renovated luxury guest rooms that feature views of the bay, city or Petco Park. Located at the entrance of the Gaslamp quarter allows you to be in the center of it all; restaurants, boutiques, nightclubs and more. The Omni Hotel is connected to Petco Park with a skybridge exclusively for hotel guests. Enjoy the sun soaked pool terrace and experience an overnight stay and a baseball game unlike any other hotel. You'll be pampered with our award winning JD Powers service. Welcome!
On the Border
20% Off
* Excludes alcohol and happy hour.
1770 Camino De La Reina, San Diego 92108
10789 Westview Parkway, San Diego 92126
103 Fletcher Parkway, El Cajon 92020
298 East Via Rancho Parkway, Escondido 92025
Our story traces back nearly three decades to 1982, when the first On The Border restaurant opened on Knox Street in Dallas, TX. Originally based on sizzling fajitas, frosty margaritas, happy hour and a booming patio, OTB has evolved and expanded over time to include a variety of crave able dishes inspired by the cuisines of South Texas and Mexico. The fiesta starts here.
Parkhouse Eatery
Buy one get one entrée free.
* Free entrée to be of equal or lesser value with purchase of two drinks. Available during dinner service only.
4574 Park Boulevard, San Diego, CA, 92101
A 1910 home converted to a restaurant in 1996. We have the largest (dog friendly) patio in University Heights, along with our Hearth room with a fireplace to keep you cozy. With locally brewed beer on tap, great California wines and house made American Ethnic Grub, you are in for a treat! We have recently launched our new dinner menu so come on by and indulge in all that we have to offer.
Pizza Port
10% off Food
* Excludes Petco Park locations.
Multiple locations
Pizza Port is devoted to total customer satisfaction by providing the highest quality and the best service humanly possible while having too much fun. We take ultimate pride in our standards by offering a completely unique dining and drinking experience. Our goal is only met if we make you happy and you have a great time, EVERYTIME!
PMG Wellness
Free Allergy Consultation. Visit pmgwellness.com or call 888-373-7923 and mention offer.
We are an integrated healthcare services company focused on providing comprehensive allergy testing and treatment. Our core focus is providing Mobile Allergy Care screening services to corporations and the general public.
Pump It Up Poway
Receive a free Glow Party Experience with any new Classic Party for 25 booking by mentioning promo code "Padres"
Redeemable over phone or in person by mentioning promo code "Padres". Not redeemable online.
12760 Danielson Court, Suite J, Poway, CA, 92064-8892
Welcome to Pump It Up of Poway - Where Your Imagination Comes to Play. Our passion is entertaining kids not only at birthday parties but at Open Jumps, Special Events and Group Events. Our Birthday Parties are the best in the industry. They are 100% private - with play areas packed with gigantic inflatables, and party rooms where your child is treated like royalty. You can select an experience like our Glow parties or Adventure Party as well as add food, goodie bags and more to your party. Our friendly, trained staff does all the work so you can relax and be assured of a safe, hassle-free party.
Robeks Fruit Smoothies and Healthy Eats
Buy One smoothie/juice get same size fan favorite or classic flavor free.
Westfield Mission Valley Mall
(1640 Camino Del Rio N, San Diego, CA 92108)
Robeks® is a smoothie and juice franchise established in 1995, by David Robertson, a health-conscious Los Angeles native. He founded the chain because he was dismayed by the lack of healthy, on-the-go, food options. He set out to create a place for healthier options: a smoothie chain that would be the best in its class. This is why we use the best ingredients and dietary supplements, and we cater to individuals who want to eat better and live a healthier lifestyle.
Rockin' Baja Lobster
15% off
310 5th Avenue, San Diego, 92101
3890 Twiggs Street, San Diego, 92110
258 Harbor Drive South, Oceanside, 92054
Rockin' Baja Lobster is a full service and fun Mexican-Seafood restaurant that offers uniquely prepared Baja style seafood presented in rustic steel buckets. We created a diverse menu filled with exceptionally great, finger lickin' good fun food delivered fresh to your table daily. Kick back, drink an ice cold beer or margarita, enjoy a shot of tequila and experience all the good times that are Rockin' Baja.
Ruby's Diner
One free appetizer with purchase of two entrees
Westfield Mission Valley Mall (1640 Camino Del Rio N, San Diego, CA 92108)
Ruby's Diner is a restaurant chain that reproduces the look and feel of the classic American Diner. Bright red vinyl booths, white Formica tables, soda fountains, milkshakes, burgers, antique coca-cola posters and commercial art echo the swing era of the 1940's.
S&M Sausage and Meat
10% off food and non-alcoholic drinks.
4130 Park Blvd, San Diego, CA92103
1102 Market St, San Diego,CA92101
S&M Sausage & Meat is located in the center of historic North City San Diego. Designed to be the newest landmark for experimental dining, featuring exotic game meats, chef conceived sausages, bacon and charcuterie. Inspired by the fearless attitude of Chef Mark Younggren, the menu pushes the boundaries of flavor combinations while Swine Bar takes mixology to another level featuring 4S themed drinks Salty, Smoky, Savory and Spicy.
San Diego Hall of Champions
A) Buy one adult admission, get one free adult or child admission
B)Buy one Child admission, get one free child admission
C) 10% of venue rentals
2131 Pan American Plaza San Diego, CA 92101
The San Diego Hall of Champions is the nation's largest multi-sport museum, boasting three levels of memorabilia and 68,000 square feet. The Hall of Champions, located in San Diego's Balboa Park, stemmed from the concept of the Breitbard Athletic Foundation.
The Breitbard Athletic Foundation was founded in 1946 to promote educational work, to encourage competition, and to recognize significant athletic achievement in San Diego. The San Diego Hall of Champions recognizes San Diego's outstanding athletic accomplishments and traditions. Amazing athletes such as Ted Williams, Tony Gwynn, Bill Walton, Florence Chadwick and many more are honored in the Breitbard Hall of Fame.
The Hall of Champions also provides a backdrop for all types of events in an atmosphere of San Diego's rich and diverse sports history. The Hall boasts a unique and spacious floor plan with three levels of rooms and exhibits. Additionally, our venue is equipped to handle complete audio visual, staging and lighting for any special occasion.
San Diego Zoo
$6 OFF the San Diego Zoo 1-Day Pass. Offer valid for up to six (6) adults and/or children per promo code 18047.
Offer redeemable online only and valid through 2/29/16. Enter promo code 18047 at checkout on www.sandiegozoo.org or www.sdzsafaripark.org Offer not valid at the ticket gates or in conjunction with any other offer, discounts, special ticketed events/attractions, pass programs, advanced sale tickets or San Diego Zoo Global Membership. No duplications or facsimiles. Not for distribution or resale. Prices and hours subject to change without notice. Right of final interpretation resides with the San Diego Zoo and San Diego Zoo Safari Park. Parking not included.
2920 Zoo Dr, San Diego, CA 92101
The 100-acre San Diego Zoo is a not-for-profit conservation organization, accredited by the Association of Zoos and Aquariums and the American Association of Museums. The Zoo is well known for its lush, naturalistic habitats and unique animal encounters. It is home to more than 3,700 rare and endangered animals representing approximately 660 species and subspecies and a prominent botanical collection with more than 700,000 plants. The San Diego Zoo is open every day of the year, including holidays.
San Diego Zoo Safari Park
$6 OFF the San Diego Zoo Safari Park 1-Day Pass. Offer valid for up to six (6) adults and/or children per promo code 18047.
Offer redeemable online only and valid through 2/29/16. Enter promo code 18047 at checkout on www.sandiegozoo.org or www.sdzsafaripark.org Offer not valid at the ticket gates or in conjunction with any other offer, discounts, special ticketed events/attractions, pass programs, advanced sale tickets or San Diego Zoo Global Membership. No duplications or facsimiles. Not for distribution or resale. Prices and hours subject to change without notice. Right of final interpretation resides with the San Diego Zoo and San Diego Zoo Safari Park. Parking not included.
15500 San Pasqual Valley Rd, Escondido, CA 92027
The San Diego Zoo Safari Park is an adventurer's safari paradise in Southern California. The 1,800-acre Safari Park is home to more than 2,600 animals representing over 300 species, many living in wide, open field enclosures. Take part in one of our thrilling array of Safari experiences and create memories of adventure, all while benefiting the conservation of species here and in more than 35 countries around the globe. The San Diego Zoo Safari Park is open every day of the year, including holidays.
Slater's 50/50
10% off food and non-alcoholic drinks.
2750 Dewey Rd #193, San Diego, CA 92106
110 Knoll Rd, San Marcos, CA 92069
Slater's 50/50 was founded around a passion for gourmet comfort food and craft beer. Together, Scott Slater and Executive Chef Brad Lyons created our now famous 50/50 Burger 50% ground bacon and 50% ground beef. We rotate our beers on tap daily, delivering our guests the best sports bar and beer selection in town. Located at Liberty Station in Point Loma and off the 78 in San Marcos.
Stella Public House
$5 craft beers and 15% off food on days of home Padres gamedays.
1429 Island Ave., San Diego, 92101
STELLA PUBLIC HOUSE's "farm to pizza" concept is centered on farm to table food practices and the development of strong partnerships with local growers, ranchers and purveyors. The star of STELLA's menu is artisan wood-fired pizza baked in an Italian Modena oven using oak and pecan wood. Shared plates, house-made cheeses, fresh salads and comfort foods made with locally-sourced ingredients are also found on the seasonal menu. Our beer list consists of 30 rotating taps showcasing craft beers from across the nation as well as an approachable, internationally-curated wine list. WE BELIEVE that to create good food it is essential to begin with fresh, local ingredients. At STELLA we focus on seasonal offerings and simple preparations to let the ingredients shine.
SuperShuttle San Diego
5% off one way trip or 10% off round trip for any Shuttle or ExecuCar reservations. To be redeemed online or over phone via promo code LGM2T. Visit supershuttle.com or call (800) BLUE VAN (800-258-3826) to make your reservation.
123 Camino De La Reina, Ste. 200 East, San Diego, CA 92108
Let SuperShuttle pick you up from your home, office, or hotel and take you to and from San Diego International Airport. Our San Diego airport shuttle is more convenient than SAN airport parking and more economical than a taxi or limo. SuperShuttle passengers share the ride with others going in their direction in one of our comfortable blue vans. Advanced reservations and pre-payment for your San Diego airport ride take the time and hassle out of getting to and from the airport. Book your SAN airport shuttle now!
Sushi Lounge on Market
15% off
411 Market Street, San Diego, 92101
Sushi Lounge on Market opened in October 2014 and is nestled in the heart of the San Diego Gaslamp Quarter at 411 Market Street (closest cross street is 4th Avenue). We are open 7 days a week, serving lunch Monday-Saturday from 11am-2pm with dinner served nightly from 5pm-10pm. We also provide late dining on Friday and Saturday nights until 12am. Please see our Daily Happenings for information regarding happy hour, delivery and our late night dining specials. Sushi Lounge on Market is conveniently located less than 4 miles from the San Diego International Airport and 5 short walking blocks from the San Diego Convention Center. We can accommodate private parties for sit-down dining or cocktail receptions. Additionally, Sushi Lounge on Market is committed to raising awareness for sustainable fishing and organic local produce. Whenever possible, we pledge to continually provide outstanding quality ingredients that are sustainable, organic, free of GMO's, MSG and antibiotics.
Tavern + Bowl
15% off Regular Food & Beverage; Free Bowling Shoes
* 6 person max per member card/Compadres Perks coupon
930 Market Street, San Diego, 92101
881 Showroom Place Chula Vista, 91914
200 E. Via Rancho Parkway #201 Escondido, 92025
Tavern+Bowl features a gourmet tavern menu that's still affordable, great happy hours, daily specials and tons of event space. Whether catching a UFC fight or your favorite team on our HD flat screens, grabbing a quick bite for lunch, taking a load off at happy hour, or hosting an unforgettable party, Tavern+Bowl is where you let the good times roll!
The High Dive
10% off
1801 Morena Boulevard, San Diego, 92110
The High Dive wants you to be happy. What better way to make you happy than to provide you great beer? If San Diego is the Beer City, consider The High Dive it's Graceland.
The Patio
15% off food
* Not for use at Petco Park. Maximum two people per membership card or Compadres Perks Coupon.
4445 Lamont Street, San Diego, Ca 92109
4020 Goldfinch Street, San Diego, Ca 92103
The Patio Restaurants located in Pacific Beach on Lamont and in Mission Hills on Goldfinch are a family of restaurants built by exceptional people who engage in sustainable practices, superb customer service and present high quality offerings to create memorable dining experiences for our guests.From the fine cuisine to the open air, "green wall" decor, every detail is meticulously designed with our guests in mind. Enjoy a rare wine or tequila from our expansive selection, savor a unique cheese from our "Cheese Cave" on Goldfinch, or share one of our tasty shareable plates. Open for breakfast, lunch and dinner plus a great happy hour, our open air locations are Pet Friendly!
USS Midway Museum
$10 adult admission
910 N. Harbor Drive, San Diego, CA 92101
Take the family to sea without leaving port for an experience of a lifetime! The USS Midway Museum now features audio tours and pilots' wings for the kids, flight simulators, climb-in aircraft, videos, knot-tying games, walk-through helicopters and more. Admission includes adult and youth audio tours to more than 60 locations/29 historic aircraft, narrated by Midway sailors. Midway is the top-ranked major San Diego attraction at tripadvisor.com. Don't miss the friendly docents explaining how to land "inside a tennis court" and how to accelerate from 0 to 150 mph in three seconds! Open daily from 10 a.m. to 5 p.m. (last admission at 4 p.m.)
Westfield UTC
Free discount card for use at Westfield UTC. Card to be redeemed at guest services booth. The guest service booth is open from 11am to 7pm.
4545 La Jolla Village Drive, San Diego, CA 92122
Westfield UTC is San Diego's iconic, open-air shopping and entertainment destination with premier shopping, dining, fitness and entertainment. Anchored by Nordstrom, Macy's and Sears, Westfield UTC delivers the quintessential San Diego experience through gold standard customer service and amenities, luxury brands, a family-friendly experience, along with signature events and entertainment. Shoppers can browse premier brands including Tiffany & Co., J.Crew, Splendid, Anthropologie, Bare Minerals, lululemon athletica, Tumi, Crate & Barrel, Restoration Hardware and Williams-Sonoma or simply unwind under the coral trees and relaxing sunshine at Westfield UTC, where the southern California lifestyle is at its best. Shopping Hours: Monday - Saturday 10am-9pm, and Sunday 11am-7pm. Westfield Customer Service: 858.546.8858.
Wilson Creek Winery
2 for 1 tastings; 10% Off Purchases In Tasting Room; Complimentary Chocolate Cup of Decadencia; 10% Off Online Purchases; 10% off at the Creekside Grill
*For online discount enter promo code PADRES
35960 Rancho California Road, Temecula, 92591
Located in the heart of Temecula Valley Southern California Wine Country, Wilson Creek Winery is a family affair. From the exhilarating yet comfortable tasting room to the grand tuscan themed champagne ballroom, Wilson Creek is host to many weddings, corporate events and summer concerts. Join us for vineyard view al fresco dining or our fabulous Champagne Sunday Brunch, any day is a perfect day to visit. The Wilson family is committed to making your wine country experience an enjoyable one and one that you will always remember!
If requested, Padres Membership Card or Compadres Perks Coupon must be shown to redeem Compadres Perks offer. Cannot be combined with other offers, promotions or discounts unless otherwise stated. Offers subject to change. Offers valid until February 29th, 2016 unless otherwise stated. Vendor reserves right to interpret or modify offer.