text:
About the Book
Why is ancient Greece important? Because, quite simply, if we want to understand the modern Western world, we need to look back to the Greeks. Consider the way we think about ethics, about the nature of beauty and truth, about our place in the universe, about our mortality. All this we have learned from the ancient Greeks. They molded the basic disciplines and genres in which we still organize thought, from poetry to drama, from medicine to philosophy, from history to ethnography.
Packed with useful facts, including a timeline, a "mythology for dummies," a who's who, a guide to Homer's epics, and a handy map for those struggling to know their Lemnos from their Lesbos, It's All Greek to Me is an entertaining and insightful tour through the world of the ancient Greeks. Why are some laws Draconian? What is an Achilles' heel? Why were the Spartans spartan? Charlotte Higgins provides these answers and more, arming average readers with the knowledge they need to understand the Greeks and their tremendous contributions to our lives. This book aims to unlock the richness of a fascinating culture and place it where it should be—in the mainstream of life.
Educator and Librarian Resources
Critical Praise
"Higgins delivers digestible précis and peppy plot summaries. . . . A love letter to ancient Greece." — The Telegraph
"A highly entertaining bluffer's guide to Greek culture, philosophy, and politics." — Sunday Times (London)
"With a marvellous display of knowledgeable enthusiasm and a keen talent for compression, (Higgins) shows just precisely why the Greeks matter." — The Guardian
"Higgins takes on classical Greek, covering politics, barbarians, love, epic and ethics, all done with panache and sly wit." — Scotland on Sunday
"Higgins's sparky style makes her subject matter so palatable that… her readers may not feel the need to seek out the classics because she has distilled them all too well." — Time Out London
"In It's All Greek to Me, Charlotte Higgins does a great job in conveying the heart of Greek culture to a general audience. Perfect for the stocking." — Mary Beard, History Today
"[It] is so readable, with a directness and clarity that's enormously engaging. Every generation needs to rediscover the Greeks: and Charlotte Higgins has provided this one with a wonderful map of the territory and all kinds of help on the way. . . . What an excellent book." — Phillip Pullman
"A completely excellent guide to Greek poetry, drama, philosophy, history and culture. Philip Pullman has said that he would put it into every school and every teacher-training course and I'd echo that. . . . Highly entertaining as well as informative." — A.N. Wilson, Evening Standard
Product Details
- Imprint: HarperCollins e-books
- On Sale: 03/23/2010
- Pages: 240
- List Price: 7.99 USD
- BISAC1: HISTORY / Ancient / Greece


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" Find out the latest weather update at Metcheck. "
This is a website designed to show you what the weather is going to be like in your chosen place over the next fourteen days. It details:
-'Feels like' temperature
-U.V exposure
-Rain (mm)
-Cloud density
-Wind direction and speed
There is also a small pictoral representation of the weather (e.g. picture of raindrops if it is to be a rainy day).
Each of these are updated for every 3 hours each day so you can see the weather for 10:00, then 13:00 etc. This is much more useful than weather forecasts which only show an overall day perspective.
In order to find the weather for your desired location you can type in a place name or postcode which is good as the weather prediction you recieve is detailed for the exact area that you want.
The overall layout of the site is simple to use and clear with large tabs to direct you to the day for which you want forecast.
On the whole i have found the predictions on metcheck to be quite accurate. Accuracy does decline the further into the future you are looking but i think this is a problem faced by all weather forecasters.
Although i use this website just for the basic forecasting feature, metcheck also has sections for cylclone track, stormwatch, ski resort watch...the list goes on! It is also possible to subscribe for an extra detailed personal version of the site should the weather forecast be very important for your business or hobby for example.
Not a great service, I Paid them to join the premium area where you get more in depth forecasts, but it was not worth it - as lots of features were not working, I contacted metcheck to get my money back, but they never answered me, I had to go via my credit card company in the end, if you search on google for the owners name - Andrew Bond metcheck, you will see why, not a site I will use again after seeing this!
I used to use the BBC weather site whenever I needed a forecast. As part of my job I quite often have to find out how the weather is going to be all over the country. A colleague of mine suggested using this site instead and I have been going back ever since.
The home page has a general worded forecast for Britain for that day as well as a weather map and top ten observations. There is a blank white box to enter your postcode or location and then along the top of the page are buttons for the next seven days of the week, clicking on any of these will give a forecast for that specific day either for Britain or your chosen location.
The Metcheck tools are then listed and each element is as follows:-
Next 48 hours - Gives the weather for the next two days spaced at approximately 4 hourly intervals. It details the temperature, how it feels, UV rating, mm of rain, cloud, wind direction and speed and a picture of the weather. These are the same details given when going into a daily forecast.
Synoptic Charts - This details the Met Office's synoptic charts for your chosen area.
Cloudcaster / Cloudwatcher / NOAA Satellite / Premium Home / Week Ahead - these are only available with the Metcheck Premium service, this is an option to subscribe to their service in order to get more detailed information, including specific weather tailored to different hobbies.
If you go into any of the above sections a menu appears on the left hand side of the screen with many other options including 7 day forecast, weather for other countries, flood warnings, lightening data and rain risk.
A drop down tools box becomes available on different pages and has options such as print forecast, send SMS forecast and videos. I think the print feature is particularly good because it just prints the information you want instead of a screen dump with all the banners and adverts on.
I find this site very easy to use; on the BBC site you have to select an area and then a place, I find this difficult as I am often given a town name without knowing whereabouts in the country it is. With Metcheck you can just type in where you want the forecast for and all the information is tailored to that place.
I have to admit I only really use the general forecast pages and rain risk charts, but having a quick look around the other features I can see several uses for this. It has an 8 to 14 day forecast facility, although the longer in advance you look the less reliable the data is, if you were trying to plan activities for the following week a look at this will give the best days to plan whether it will be indoors or outdoors.
I can also see why some may subscribe at a price of just over £3.00 a month. If your business depends on the weather or perhaps you have an outdoor hobby like fishing or wind surfing then the extra information might be worth the cost.
Overall I like this site, it is easy to use and all the information shown is understandable and presented well. I particularly like the colour coding it uses on maps for different types of weather and also severity of rain, snow or wind.
If you need to know whether it's going to be sunny on Sunday or windy on Wednesday this is the place to find out.
I first came across Metcheck when trying to find weather predictions for the Global Gathering festival some weeks away. Metcheck seemed to be the only weather site that was showing readings for a date so far away, and although the predictions did change as the festival grew closer, by the week the festival was going to occur Metcheck's prediction were absolutely spot on.
This proof that Metcheck had accurately predicted the weather was what made me switch to checking their service instead of the BBC's as I had before. The BBC's weather reports I had found had a high percentage of not being exactly right, and also not giving enough detail about what weather will affect what time, which Metcheck changes completely.
The Metcheck site itself is very ease to you, you simply type a location worldwide in the search bar and pick the day you want results for. The report will then give you 2 hourly readings of what the weather will be like, including temperature, rainfall, windspeed, and even a handy little symbol that you can roll over with your mouse to find out exactly what that 2 hour slot will be like. Although it is only temperature, rain and the overall image I check, Metcheck had more than enough details to satisfy even the most particular "Weatherologist".
What I like most about the readings though is that Metcheck goes above and beyond giving you the plain facts and figures of weather prediction- they also provide a "Feels like" bar which takes into account windspeed, rainfall, temperature, and the rest, and is very very accurate in showing what the weather will seem like outside.
Metcheck.com is one of my favourite weather checking resources. It lets you find the weather forecast by place name or postcode. Upon searching for your location if you bring back the nearest forecast for your area assuming there is one. Certain remote areas will not have their own forecast. Metcheck lets you see the weather forecast for the next three days or the next seven days. Obviously the seven day forecast is quite liable to inaccuracies due to the nautre of changing weather.
One great feature of Metcheck's forecasts is the fact the weather forecast for a particular days is broken into three hour intervals on the three day forecasts and morning, afternoon, evening on the seven day forecast. This breakdown gives details on real temperature, felt temperature, UV level, rain fall in mm, percentage cloud cover and wind speed and direction. This breakdown of weather is ideal for planning a trip in the outdoors be it walking or fishing etc. It lets you know what weather is expected and when. I use this forecasting tool when planning my fishing trips as in general you are looking for a dry, cloud covered evening when the temperature is warm and the wind drops. Metcheck lets you find the exact times this should happen.
Metcheck is my favourite weather checking tool online but it don't always believe it. Makes provisions for rain if the forecast is dry, especially if in the wild outdoors. The weather isn't 100% foolproof prediction wise afterall!
After looking around at various weather websites for a while I decided to use Metcheck.com as my rimary source of weather information.
The website is laid out simply and is easy to navigate. By clicking the map on the right of the homepage and general UK weather map can be viewed showing a forecast at midnight, 6am, midday and 6pm for the next 7 days.
By entering an address or postcode in the top bar you can view a more precise forecast. The search facility covers a good number of place names so a close location can be fixed.
Forecasts are viewed for the first 7 days with intervals every 3 hours, this means 8 forecasts are provided a day. The information provided covers all of what is needed being temperature, UV, rain, cloud cover, wind direction, wind speed, gust speed and a small summary animation. This is in my view is excellent in comparison to other weather websites providing lots of information. By Clicking 'more' on the top bar a long range forecast covering 7-14 days ahead can be viewed, shown in 6 hour intervals. This is a big advantage over several other weather websites which only show 5 or may be 7 days ahead.
Along side this you can view fog, frost, flood and pollen warnings, look up weather for major events, ski resorts and storm warnings and check out what is going on in other countries worldwide.
Overall I have found the accuracy of their forecasts to be good.
Metcheck is my favourite weather site. I keep the link in my 'favourites' so it is easy to call it up. It seems to be the most accurate site of all those I have tried.
Metcheck is very easy to use. All you need to do is enter the first four digits of your postcode in the search box and a very comprehensive write-up appears telling you exactly what the current conditions are. Click into 'today' and a chart comes up with easy-to-understand graphics. My favourite one, of course, is the one that shows a flashing sun but we haven't seen many of those this year! You can check the weather in any part of the UK and anywhere abroad.
You can call up a few days at a time and then click into a particular day for more in-depth details. The chart for each day is broken down into three hour segments; for example from 6am to 9am. Alongside this is recorded the temperature with what it actually feels like taking into account the wind-chill factor, UV levels, rain (in mms), cloud (in percentages) and the wind direction, including gusts. You can look for up to 24 hours ahead, seven days ahead or even 8-14 days ahead.
At the top of the page for your post code area is other local information such as the latitiude, longitude, sunrise and sunset times and the moon phases.
Down the left hand side of the page is a long list of other tools you can use including checking the weather in the rest of the world. For instance, you can call up 'Europe' which is then broken down into the various countries then, if you click into, say, France, you can then choose your region. This is really handy if you are just about to visit that area on holiday. Other tools include weathercams, event forecasts, storm warnings, flood risks, ski forecasts, lightening data and many other really useful things.
Of all the weather sites I have used, this is my favourite - it is easy to use and to understand, comprehensive and, above all, reliable. I haven't used every tool the site has because I'd be there all day but, if you need to check the weather for a particular event or vist, this is the perfect way to do so.
As I have got older, my total geek nature has pushed me more and more into a bubble surrounding my desk and computer. I am slowly beginning to realise, (despite having been told over and over again), that I am addicted to this keyboard and monitor as much as I am coffee and fags. It is starting to replace reality.
And thank f**k for that. Reality sucks. If my memory serves....
Further evidence of this is provided by the fact that I actually check weather forecasts about every 20 minutes of the day. That's no exaggeration. If there is even the whiff of something interesting in the air I watch its progress with scarily obsessive determination. It's a number thing. I like to see them change. I'm the same with the football scores on a Saturday and sit endlessly hitting the refresh. Fair enough I say. I'm not at the game(s), it's the only way to find out what's going on.
Not so the weather though. It's always there in the reality outside the window. 'Just look out of the bloody window', she says. But that's not the point. I need to check predicted reality against the actual. That's the fun. See - total effin' geek. I'm lucky to have a wife. Err.....second wife. Oh oh - emerging pattern!
To be a geek, you need special geek information and Metcheck is always my first port of call for stats and statistics.
What is Metcheck?
Nerd-fodder would be the best explanation but to add a bit more detail, it is a major website that provides an up-to-date and ever changing window to the weather. Other than using a real window.
I have been using it for about 3 years and I don't think it is much older than that. It claims to provide weather forecasts for a number of major organisations such as breakdown companies etc etc. Those with a vested interest in that which Britain does so well.
For the casual user, it provides the weather in some detail - more than the BBC will give you anyway and in a fashion that is easier on the eye than the Metoffice.
To the general public, there is a comprehensive free service, but for those who take number crunching to new 'total and utter geek' levels, there is a paid service which will chuck at you nearly every weather related statistic known to man - certainly enough for you to do your own weather forecast. This is for those people whose wives have banished them to a shed where they house their own weather station on which they base their made up predictions. They are there in case they are ever called upon to predict the best time for a sea-born invasion of France and they are the only ones the government can trust. They invariably have moustaches.
The site
To be found at www.metcheck.com, the weather is overseen by weather lovers who have a friendly, fun-loving nature. And I mean that quite genuinely - they have a laid-back studenty appeal.
The home page usually gives an easy to understand summary of the current situation and puts great store on explaining what is going on in layman's terms. No scientific waffle - just explanation, nice and easy to absorb.
At the heart of the site is a customisable homepage to the extent that it will save your location and give you your local forecast. This will present you with the next 2 days weather, split into 3 hour time windows, with the weather presented symbolically and with the usual numerical data of temperature, wind and pressure. If required you can look at a similar forecast for a total of 14 days into the future.
For the tight-arses who won't pay for an account (myself included), they still offer a plethora of data and info including the computer predictions, weather charts, risk of frost, snow, rain and gales, info on the jet stream this and that, the other, lots more stuff. I could go on but the list of about 25 different meteorological titbits would have you praying for my immediate castration.
You are given priority warning about any adverse weather conditions approaching in the form of 'weather watches' and 'weather alerts' and ultimately, 'weather warnings'. These are basically mimicking the Met Offices warnings, but you can't miss them on the site and give easy to see details of your impending weather related death.
It may well be the case that interaction between number-nerds should be discouraged but this site has been created to ensure they are contained and monitored closely, with special SWAT teams available in case one escapes. They are encouraged to post the days weather where they live in great detail, preventing them from congregating in pubs with inglenook fires, where they might plot to overthrow the allotment society.
These chaps are also entertained by being given the opportunity to send in their weather photos, predict the weather to score points if they are right, organise their email and SMS alerts etc etc. You get the picture - RUN!
Is it accurate?
Well, if you look out the window and then check the forecast on Metcheck for 'now', then they are pretty darned good. In fact, up to a day ahead they are pretty darned good. You look at the next weeks forecast at your peril as I have found to my cost. Metcheck does not claim to be accurate at this range, it just gives us what the computers are telling them when they run all their stats through their humongous nerve-centre. My wife doesn't get this. She says things like 'You said last week that it would be sunny with a light westerly wind at three o'clock when I asked you 10 days ago. It isn't and now I am very disappointed in you and you geeky weather nerd site. You have ruined my life'. It can be hard.
Any problems?
Well, it is so popular that occasionally their servers get a bit overloaded and they have to resort to a 'high traffic' mode which limits the data available on the homepage, but this is a minor quibble. To be honest, it's so comprehensive that it can be whatever you want it to be.
Worth a look?
Yep. Even if you are not a nerd, it still presents the fact in an easy to ingest manner that will give you a fuller picture without blowing your brain. If you like having a blown brain, then you can pay to have the same data they have - which is a lot and largely incomprehensible to us casual 'can't be arsed looking out of the window' people. Suffice to say it is sitting on my Firefox Bookmark toolbar - dead center.
Thanks for reading.
May also be on other websites that rhyme with the noise a cat makes when you stand on its tail.
This weather based website offers an array of services for the internet user interested in current weather conditions. It has two main countries it focuses upon a) UK and b) Australia. The first time you log onto the site you enter your location and on next visits it will remember your location.
the site also offer an array of options relating to different aspects of weather your interested- yet some of these require a membership subscription for the more detailed long-term weather forecasts. Yet for the visitor just wishing to witness the free options detailed and informative weather information can be collected such as sunrise and sunset times as well as temperature and wind direction and wind speed. An interesting feature in the expected cloud cover, expressed as a percentage this will give the viewer information as to how clear the sky is to be. Negatives to the site are that there is a lack of detail as to UV levels (which in summer could leave you with sunburn) and the graphics use to express the weather for each hour can be miss leading at times).
Overall 7/10

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Pushing spyware through search
This is a parallel situation to Internet providers who provide connectivity to known spammers. I am pleased to work for a company that has a strict acceptable use policy (which I helped write, and which my organization is responsible for enforcing), which allows us to take appropriate steps to keep spammers off our network and quickly terminate contracts and access of those who manage to make it on. But too many are unwilling to say no to the money, and look the other way when their contracts are violated, which unfortunately includes the big guys (SBC, which is now part of AT&T, and MCI, which is now part of Verizon, are two of the very worst offenders out there).


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Rehearsal, Convocation and Commencement take place on Merion Green under a tent erected for the weekend.
Return to this page for updates through the weekend.
We do expect that all degree candidates will be here for rehearsal, Convocation and Commencement.
If you are unable to attend any part of the weekend, please contact the Dean of your respective College or School (Jennifer Walters, Sharon Burgmayer or Darlyne Bailey).
Invitations will be mailed to parents or the guest of your choosing at the beginning of April.
Extra invitations will be available from Conferences and Events Office in the Campus Center.
NO TICKETS (or invitations) are required for family or friends for Convocation, Commencement or the receptions on Friday and Saturday. The only exception is any family member or friend requiring seating accommodation.
Seating for Convocation and Commencement is first-come, first-served.
Seats CANNOT be reserved by signs, balloons, clothing, etc. A family member or friend may sit continuously, however, to hold seats.
If you or one of your guests has a disability and requires accommodation for events during the weekend, you will need to complete a Request for Accommodation Form. This form will be sent with the second mailing in mid-April.
A Request for Accommodation Form for special parking will need to be completed even if the car has handicapped-accessible license plates; demand far exceeds supply for the accessible spaces that currently exist on campus.
If sign language interpreters are needed, please let us know by 15 April.
The College provides cap, gown and hood which will be distributed from the Campus Center during the week of Commencement.
Ph.D. Candidates only: If you wish to purchase your own regalia, please contact Conferences and Events for more information. Please let us know if you intend to purchase your own regalia, especially the hood, as that is part of the ceremony (and we want to make sure you get your own hood!).
Wyndham will be serving brunch on Saturday by reservation only. Please contact Wyndham directly at 610-526-5236 to make reservations.
Erdman Dining Hall will be serving brunch as well; reservations are not needed.
The College has contracted with Legacy Photographics to take a picture of each degree recipient shaking hands with President Cassidy. The company will email you with information about how to purchase that picture. There is no obligation to do so.
A "photo zone" will be established on one side of the tent where family and friends can go to take a picture (there is a 2 minute maximum).
Family and friends will not be able to come down the center aisle to the front of the stage to take photographs; please let them know.
Our Multimedia Services department will be videotaping Convocation and Commencement ceremonies and will offer DVD copies for sale. The order form will be included in the second mailing in April.
You may contact our office, Conferences and Events, at any time with questions or concerns. Our phone number is (610) 526-7329 and you can email us at email@example.com.


text:
"Where nature finishes producing it's shapes, there a man begins with natural things and with the help of nature itself, to create infinite varieties of shapes."
Helping people transform their dream look into a beautiful reality is my professional passion. Perhaps it requires my assistance to smooth and tone aging skin. Reshape a nose, chin, or neckline. Enhance the bust. Or slim the torso.
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Monday through Friday 9:00am - 5:30pm
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Endoscopic Surgery
Vaser Lipodystrophy
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Providing safety for all of Dr. Byun's patients is his top priority. All his patients receive wonderful assistance from the most prestigious hospitals and Same Day surgery centers. These hospitals and facilities contain highly qualified anesthesiologists, nurses, and patient care assistants. The Same Day Surgery Center Dr. Byun utilizes is 1 E. Erie conveniently located in front of Northwestern Hospital. For those patients who require a hospital facility, Dr. Byun operates in Lutheran General Hospital and Swedish Covenant Hospital.
- B.S. - University of California, 1988
- M.D. - Northwestern University School of Medicine, 1992
- Research Advisor - NIH, 1989
- Research Fellow - UCI, 1987
- General Surgery Residency - Northwestern, 1992
- Plastic Surgery Rersidency - Northwestern, 1995
- Northwestern Univ. Medical School, Instructor of Surgery, 1997-1998
- Chief Plastic Surgery Resident, Northwestern Univ. Medical School, 1997
- Chief Plastic Surgery Resident, Shriner's Sick Children's Hospital, 1997
- Director, Chicago Cosmetic Surgery, 1998 - Present
- Attending Plastic Surgeon, Swedish Covenant Hospital, 1998 - Present
- Attending Plastic Surgeon - Lutheran General Hospital, 1998 - Present
- Attending Plastic Surgeon at Rush Presbyterian, 1999 - 2001
- Assistant Professor, Department of Plastic Surgery, Rush Medical School, 1999 - 2001
- Director, Pediatric Plastic Surgery - Advocate Lutheran General Hospital, 2002 - Present
- American Board of Plastic Surgery 2002
- American Society of Plastic Surgeons, 2003
- American Society of Plastic Surgery, member, 1998
- American Society of Lipoplasty, Candidate, 1995
- American Medical Association, 2001
- Chicago Medical Society, 2001
- Lutheran General Hospital, Park Ridge, IL
- Swedish Covenant Hospital, Chicago, IL
- Rush - Presbyterian, Chicago, IL
- Alexian Brothers, St. Alexius Medical Center, Elk Grove Village, IL
- Sameday Surgery, Chicago, IL


text:
New York -- Wal-Mart Stores on Thursday confirmed a report from the Wall Street Journal that its U.S. chief administrative officer, Tom Mars, will step down in March. The company did not give a reason for his departure.
Mars has been with the chain for more than a decade. He served as the chain's general counsel from 2002 to 2009, and was involved in an investigation into bribery allegations regarding a Wal-Mart store built near the Mexican pyramids, according to company emails released in January by members of Congress, Reuters reported.


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|Trad, 3 pitches, 165'
|YDS: 5.10a French: 6a Ewbanks: 18 UIAA: VI+ ZA: 18 British: E1 5a [details]
|George Hurley, Bob Culp, 1966.
|Fixed Hardware:
|2 Anchor Bolts [details]
|Page Views:
|Submitted By:
|Matt Bauman on Jan 1, 2001
|Comments on Chockstone
|Add Comment
|Show which comments —
Comments displayed oldest to newest — Skip Ahead to the Most Recent Dated Aug 17, 2017
By Matt Bauman
Jan 1, 2001
|I led this this morning and found the crux to feel quite a bit harder than Xanadu.....very off-balance and insecure move and fairly sustained for 10-15 feet. Cool climb but felt much harder than Xanadu and both are 10a (and about 100 feet apart). Cool eery clouds pulled in and filled the whole canyon......noone else in the area made the atmosphere very cool.
By Charles Vernon
From: Tucson, AZ
Jan 1, 2001
rating: 5.10a 6a 18 VI+ 18 E1 5a PG13
|The crux is thin and technical but short and well-protected, only about 15 feet up, with a reasonable stance to scope it out, make false starts, etc. The rest seemed like a good 5.8 hand crack to the first ledge, if I recall. It was one of my very first 5.10 leads, and for the above reasons I'd reccomend it to someone looking to break into the grade.
By Ben F
From: Benfield, Kolorado
Oct 30, 2001
|Using a few long runners, P1 and P2 can be combined to get some value-added climbing. For me, P2 was at least as difficult as P1 and more interesting.
By Chris Dawson
From: Denver, CO
Nov 11, 2001
|I'd just like to comment on the quality of pitch two. I love this pitch. Great stemming and positive edges! It works quite well to combing pitch one and pitch two. As for the S rating, bring RP's and save some very small cams for the top. The last move around the corner is a little scary without the proper gear.
By Ivan Rezucha
From: Fort Collins, CO
Nov 25, 2001
|The old Erickson and Ament Eldorado guides call the first pitch 9- and the second pitch 9+. The first pitch is pretty easy if you're tall (I'm 6'2" with mediocre reach). Pitch 2 is exciting. Be optimistic and keep going. There's a good stance and gear after every move. The last move is much easier going straight up (if you're tall enough) than swinging around to the right. Save several tiny wires (#1 stopper, RP) for the last move and a 1 1/2" cam (red camalot?) for a pocket after the last hard move. That will protect the second. Pitch 3 is not worth the hassle. Rap from the Purple Haze tree. Combine pitch 1 and 2.
By Jeff Lockyer
From: Canmore, AB
Dec 2, 2001
This is a SUPERB route, one of the finest I have done in Eldorado thus far. The crux is very well-protected on very small nuts, RPs. The cross through at the crux is very exciting and esthetic. The climbing is also very fun once this business is over, you may have a little pump but the jams on the upper half of the route are GREAT....
Have fun with this one, it is an excellent route.
By Aaron Shupp
Jan 30, 2002
|P1 and P2 combine great for one long pitch. I do think there might be one 5.10a move at the crux of P1; however, I think the scariest part is topping out on P2. A fall here would smart! This route is substantially easier than Blind Faith (5.10a). For Eldo, this is definitely one of the easier 5.10a's.
By Shane Zentner
From: Colorado
Jun 1, 2003
|Combining pitches one and two works fine. The first pitch felt 5.10 to me, the second pitch was scarier though. I placed three RP's on the second pitch, one of those placements was decent, the other two marginal. Interesting move on the second pitch.
By tobias Nitschke
From: CO
Jun 8, 2003
Finding the climb: (someone asked)... It's near the top west side of the ridge, just before you get to Rincon wall. There are gullies on either side of this section of cliff. There are several great looking cracks in this section-- Purple Haze being one of the most aesthetic in my opinion.
P1 is the tad-easier first cousin of the first pitch of Rincon. In other words, I think it has more in common with that climb than Xanadu. (Talk about sandbag-- the first 40 feet of Rincon are rather stiff for a nine...) P2 is great and the pro's there if you look-- one small wire and a med cam got me through its second half. P3 is short but worth doing, too. (See photo below.)
By Jake Wyatt
From: Longmont, CO
Aug 1, 2003
|The crux of the first pitch can also be protected well with Lowe Balls (or Ballnuts, or whatever they're called nowadays).
By Kirk Woerner
Feb 27, 2004
|Awesome climb. Pitch one is more strenuous I think but less subtle with good gear. Pitch two takes lots of small gear but you have solid (read that perfect) stems throughout until... The end of pitch two, you had better have saved a couple small nuts (like number ones and twos) because the last move around the corner is nerve-racking. I'm a solid 5.10 climber and I found it scary as hell to do it with crappy gear since a fall would be a long bouncy pendulum.
By willem
Mar 27, 2004
#4 Wallnut fits well for the blind placement on P1. P2 isn't bad if you climb 11 sport. I thought the gear was even good (better than moving into P2 of Purple Haze).
But the hell can't someone put in a decent anchor at the top of this or Purple Haze? I mean really...do you really want to rap off those meager trees? Fine the...is bomber....but the slings are killing them. Face it Eldo is a high use area and could use some decent anchors in places.
By Edward Jenner
Mar 29, 2004
Willem, what about if you climb 10- trad???
Seriously, though if P1 is one of the easiest 10s in Eldo, then budding 10 leaders should try it, if for no other reason than to realize that even 'easy' 10 is significantly harder than 'hard' 9 here. Definitely not a one-move-wonder.
I agree with the anchors, have they been suggested to the FHC?
By Michael Kullman
Sep 13, 2004
|This first pitch of this route is kind of a one move wonder (in terms of the 10a rating), but none the less it is super fun and well worth doing.
By Jason Shatek
Jun 17, 2005
rating: 5.10a 6a 18 VI+ 18 E1 5a
|I thought this was a good route, the crux requires some thinking and a [definite] move of faith or two. I protected the crux with a #1 stopper that looked OK and a green alien that evoked maximum happiness. The climbing gets easier as you go up P1 but it is still quite a pump, I moved quickly to avoid burning out. The only really good rest is 3/4 of the way up the route.
By Jason Shatek
Jun 28, 2005
rating: 5.10a 6a 18 VI+ 18 E1 5a
|Led this one a few weeks back, it felt like 10a for at least three moves. But, it being my second 5.10 I would say it's great for new 5.10 leaders. I had great pieces in the crux, a #1 stopper and a green alien did a perfect job followed by a #1 camalot another 10 feet up once you're through the business. It felt quite pumpy though and really had to keep moving so I wouldn't burn out. I would agree that some bolts at the top of P1 would be a great addition. I always cringe rappeling off that crappy anchor up there. It would be great if you could use the bolts for Knights Move as well as chockstone and purple haze.
By Anonymous Coward
Jun 29, 2005
A couple of comments -
First, if you protect the crux and then placed the next piece 10 feet later as Jason describes, you would no doubt deck if you blew the clip on the second piece. Yes, it's a little pumpy through that section, but it's worth the trouble to place a piece a bit above the crux rather than waiting for ground fall potential.
Second, to Willem, Edward and Jason - what is wrong with doing the whole climb rather than rapping off after the first pitch? If you are not up to the challenge of the second pitch on Chockstone, leave it for later and finish on Knights Move. If you want a sanitized experience with anchors after the first pitch, there is always bolted canyon just up the road. The whole "convenience anchor" thing in Eldo has been beaten to death in a dozen other threads and the concensus seems to be that the anchors are neither wanted or needed by the majority of people who climb in Eldo.
By Anonymous Coward
Jun 30, 2005
Larry - I didn't have a cup o ire for breakfast.
I was simply pointing out that these are not one pitch climbs, (even though they are often climbed as such) and that you could actually *gasp* climb the second pitch, get to the top and use already established rap anchors or *gasp* walk off.
Ron Olson is dead wrong when he says that this is not a convenience anchor.
This anchor is not necessary to actually climb either of the routes in question as there are plenty of good gear placements and a tree for a belay anchor. It doesn't matter whether or not it is ratty slings on a tree or shiny new bolts, the fact remains that it is an anchor designed for rapping after the first pitch of a couple of two pitch climbs. And for that reason, it can only be a convenience anchor.
Ron is right about one thing though - you can submit an application to put in a couple of unneeded bolts if you wish to do so.
By Joe Collins
Jun 30, 2005
I agree with the AC. An anchor at the top of P1 is the very definition of a convenience anchor. Actually, I don't have any problem with certain convenience anchors per se, but Chockstone's first two pitches are really one pitch.So, in effect, this would be a midpitch bolted anchor. Silly. Just climb the first "two pitches" as the single 90-foot pitch it should be.
If someone really wants to do something useful in this area, then I suggest putting in bolts to replace the ridiculous anchor that people use to rap from the top of Chockstone P2, Superstone, Friends in High Places, and Purple Haze. If I recall that is a scrawny tree backed up by a sketchy block, and sees a ton of use.
By Jason Shatek
Jun 30, 2005
rating: 5.10a 6a 18 VI+ 18 E1 5a
AC, I don't believe you would deck when laying gear as I suggest. If you look at the picture below of Ivan Rezucha in his "hero shot". He is protecting exactly like I did except his last stopper was a bomber green Alien. Where Ivan is standing in the picture you can place a bomber #1 Camalot on a very good stance, if one were to miss the clip here you probably can't climb 5.8 much less 5.10.
I didn't take a good hard look at the anchor with the thought "hmm maybe there needs to be bolts here" my recollection is that the tree isn't that big and the pile of rocks that are slung looked pretty fractured and there really wasn't any other bomber spots to build an anchor. From a safety standpoint, I would vote for a bolt anchor but I understand why some of the better climbers that continue with the other pitches would frown on the idea. Nobody wants a bolted anchor for every climb, that's for sure.
By Tony B
From: Around Boulder, CO
Jun 30, 2005
rating: 5.10a 6a 18 VI+ 18 E1 5a
Seems to me like a lot of bolts are going in where they were not needed before. I like Ron, he's a decent guy, but at present I'm largely against his influence in the canyon. Ron seems to be generally in favor of bolting a lot of things. When logical and decent people disagree on points, it is usually not the pro and con data that they disagree on, it is the value assigned to each [argument]. Ron was in favor of the bolts placed on most of the applications I've seen, wanted a retro-bolt placed on Aerospace, and came out pro-bolt [on the] Bitty Buttress thing. I guess that means he's generally in favor of retro-bolting climbs and anchors.Shoot, this was hashed out regarding bolting the mid-point anchor on Blind Faith.
In my own opinion, I think adding rap stations to multi-pitch climbs is generally a bad idea. Adding TR anchors to the top of walk-offs is similarly bad. If gear can be placed, place the gear. There are a lot of areas near bolder that have a lot of TR and convenience anchors, do we have to turn [Eldo] into one of them? What about when there are 10,000 bolted anchors in the park, all aging? Who will keep them up and good at [the] rate they age when everything [is] bolted? When will none be trustworthy? Are we building a [dependency]? Will we create "blighted" areas where people crowd at the bolted TR anchors? I can't say, but I really like Eldo and maybe I just fear change.
Chockstone is a nice climb for people competent to climb it, and for 30 years, there has not been a problem with that. I'm opposed to bolts being added to the middle of this historic climb.
By Ron Olsen
From: Boulder, CO
Jun 30, 2005
rating: 5.10a 6a 18 VI+ 18 E1 5a
Anonymous Coward is dead wrong when he/she says this is a convenience anchor. It is a rappel anchor that allows rapping from the top of Knight's Move to the ground with two rappels on one 60m rope.
Few climbers routinely bring two ropes to Eldorado in order to do long rappels. It is the norm in Eldorado to have rappel routes that can be negotiated with a single 60m rope.
Following AC's logic, we should remove the bolt anchors atop the first pitch of Tagger, the Bastille Crack, Bastille West Buttress, Hair City, and Calypso. These are multi-pitch climbs; why allow rappelling after the first pitch?
I hope that someone will make an application to the FHRC for a bolt anchor atop the first pitch of Chockstone.Let the climbing community hash it out and see how the chips fall.
By Ron Olsen
From: Boulder, CO
Jun 30, 2005
rating: 5.10a 6a 18 VI+ 18 E1 5a
Joe - I think your idea for a bolt anchor for Chockstone p2, Friends in High Places and Purple Haze is excellent. Why don't you suss it out, figure out where the bolts should go, and submit an application to the FHRC?If you don't feel qualified to drill the bolts, I'm sure other members of the community will step up to implement the proposal if it is approved.
I strongly encourage all climbers who have ideas for improved anchors in Eldorado to put in applications to the FHRC.Again, the application can be found at aceeldo.org/fhrc/application.p...
By Anonymous Coward
Jun 30, 2005
Ron - Last I knew, it was an easy walk off from the top of Knight's Move. At the very least, you can walk a short distance and use some already placed bolted rap anchors. In my book, that makes it a convenience anchor.
Just how many different bolted places do there need to be on the West Ridge to rap down? Aren't there plenty already? Is a little walking going to hurt anybody? Probably not, but it's more convenient to just rap down the route. And it's definitely more convenient not to have to deal with that pesky second pitch. And wouldn't it be super-convenient if there was a pair of shiny fat bolts to rap from.
To twist the meaning of your words like you twisted mine, we could use your logic to mandate that there be a rap route at the top of each and every climb in Eldo.
Now wouldn't that be convenient?
By TBlom
Jun 30, 2005
I guess I could understand having rap anchors here, just because the upper pitches look bad, The time I was there I didn't see many people continuing past the first pitch. Do you think this might turn into an overused toprope though? further causing confusion and arguments about what the anchor should be used for.
P.S. I'm all for removing the bolts at the end of pitch one on [Bastille Crack], what a waste and an obvious visual distraction, there would be no bolts at all on the whole route without these. however the bolts on west butt seem more reasonable given the size of the crack on that climb.
By Josh Janes
General Admin
Jul 1, 2005
|Ron, you are exactly right. These anchors should not have been placed to begin with - they are convenience anchors. I don't think that the solution is to remove them however - this just further damages the rock and stirs up tension in the climbing community. But the point I'd like to make is that their presence doesn't justify more anchors - such as on Chockstone.
By Anonymous Coward
Jul 1, 2005
Certainly an argument for bolted anchors in Eldo can be made: when the walk-off is creating excessive erosion, such as the case with the Kloof area; when an historical anchor uses a natural feature such as a tree or flake that is deteriorating or damaged (for example, The Unsaid or Rincon 1st pitch variations); perhaps when no original anchor was installed, and potential for rope damage or a pain-in-the-arse situation for cleaning the route exists (rarely the case, but Another Pipeline Bonecrusher comes to mind); or, possibly, when the historical anchor is an unsightly wad of slings (Le Void area) and a bolted anchor would create less of a visual impact.
With no judgement on the current debate, I hate to see bolts placed anywhere in Eldorado, but acknowledge that many more people are climbing in Eldorado than 30 years ago, and hence impact to trees, anchors, walk-offs, etc. are very different than they used to be. While some bolted convenience anchors have been installed (Bastille Crack, Calypso, etc.), many of these were done by individuals with no input from the Eldo climbing community.
Much like the debate over replacing antiquated fixed hardware with bolts in Eldo, the placement of bolted anchors should be done on a case-by-case basis, and the bias should always be towards NOT damaging the resource further (i.e. not placing drilled anchors). I would hope the FHRC holds this bias.
By Kirk Woerner
Jul 1, 2005
"Ron, you are exactly right. These anchors should not have been placed to begin with - they are convenience anchors."
The anchors on Tagger at least saves the tree and are justifiable on that basis. The others might not make it through the revew process if they were to be added now since there are gear options.
In the case of Chockstone, this would just be nothing but convenience. The "second" pitch is easier even. Also, putting a bolt on Aerospace would be a travesty. It's scary, but that's why it's fun.
By Anonymous Coward
Jul 1, 2005
I agree with [Bubb, Janes], et al. Bolts on this would be purely convenience. Is the current anchor really that bad? Why miss out on the second pitch? etc.
An example on a similar note, I climbed [Blind Faith] for the first time with my gf last summer. I got the first pitch, and pulled into the little cave area and set an anchor. She came up, and as light was waning I made her lead the second pitch (being somewhat of a coward). She onsighted the pitch in the dark, complete with a pigeon flying in her face when she was well above gear. I followed the pitch, thinking damn this little roof is tricky. We descended the [Bastille] walkoff in the dark, excited by a great after work experience. We still remember it with great happiness. If there were fat bolts there to bail on, we would have probably done so. The siren call of a pint of stout at the sun being too strong a pull. Alas, I am a stingey bastard, completely unwilling to leave gear unless the situation is beyond [desperation]. We would have missed out on a great memory.
As far as retrobolting bold routes (i.e. [Aerospace]), that is absolutely absurd. Odds are you have at least one tough friend who will let you hitchike. Even if you don't have any friends, what's wrong with emailing [Bubb], or [Janes], or [D'Antonio], or a million other people who would gladly run up it with you in exchange for a pint somewhere? Some may argue that this isn't legit, but isn't it a lot more legit than ruining the experience for those who can?
the lemon wedge
By Ron Olsen
From: Boulder, CO
Jul 1, 2005
rating: 5.10a 6a 18 VI+ 18 E1 5a
AC - glad you and your girlfriend had a memorable time climbing the second pitch of Blind Faith in the dark. Beth Coats, an Olympic biathlete and professional mountain bike racer, wasn't so lucky. She and partner Pete Takeda arrived atop the first pitch of Blind Faith at dusk and she decided to traverse off to the right, unroped, instead of climbing the second pitch. A hold broke and she fell and she is now paralyzed from the navel down. See Pete's account at petetakeda.com/features/fallin...
A quote from Pete's article: "This incident or any like it nullifies the seeming glory of our pursuit. Climbers talk about ethics and what climbing means and what climbing is all about. When Beth was carted away it was as if someone had taken my passion and reduced it to mere frivolity, a game of petulant children..."
In this case, having a fixed anchor there would have done far more than entice someone to a cool brew at the Southern Sun.
Climbing is worth living for, but it's not worth dying (or getting seriously injured) for. It's only a game, folks.
By Josh Janes
General Admin
Jul 1, 2005
The very purpose statement of the ACE is to "conserve Eldorado." In some cases that means adding bolts to protect trees, prevent erosion, or clean up visual pollution such as nests of slings. In other cases it means preventing unnecessary holes to be drilled in the rock. I believe Chockstone fits into this latter category.
I was looking in my guidebook and I realized that Chockstone was my second ten in Eldo - right after "Bolting for Glory." I vividly remember doing the second pitch and finding it more of a challenge than the first - I was freaking out because a wasp kept landing on a hold I wanted to use. I also remember completing the climb and walking off.
By Ron Olsen
From: Boulder, CO
Jul 2, 2005
rating: 5.10a 6a 18 VI+ 18 E1 5a
Josh Janes writes: 'The very purpose statement of the ACE is to "conserve Eldorado." In some cases that means adding bolts to protect trees, prevent erosion, or clean up visual pollution such as nests of slings. In other cases it means preventing unnecessary holes to be drilled in the rock. I believe Chockstone fits into this latter category.'
The Eldorado Fixed Hardware Review Committee guidelines (aceeldo.org/fhrc/guidelines.pd... state:
"Section 3.4. Applications Regarding Anchors. Applications to install new anchors shall be generally given favorable consideration when the new anchor replaces anchors on trees or other vegetation or where the anchor replaces visual eyesores, e.g., wads of slings attached to pitons, fixed nuts, and or bolts. "
The current anchor atop the first pitch of Chockstone is a wad of slings around a block.Replacing this anchor by bolts falls within the above guideline.
Replacing the tree anchor atop Purple Haze by bolts also falls within this guideline.
Climbers who want their views heard on FHRC applications should visit the ACE website aceeldo.org/fhrc/ and click on"current applications".Input from the climbing community via on-line voting and voting at the public meeting carries tremendous weight.
Again, quoting from the FHRC guidelines:"Section 3.1. Voting. In considering all applications, the FHRC shall give great weight to the opinion of the majority of the climbing community. Any FHRC member voting against prevailing public opinion must have excellent reason(s) to do so, and must describe and discuss those reason(s) in detail at the public meeting."
I encourage all climbers who care about Eldorado to read the FHRC guidelines, vote on current FHRC applications, and attend the semi-annual FHRC public meetings.
If you feel a current belay/rappel anchor should be replaced by bolts, make an application to the FHRC for it. aceeldo.org/fhrc/application.p...
If you really want a say in the future of Eldorado, appiy to become a member of ACE or the FHRC.Applications for ACE and the FHRC will be sought in October for terms starting in January 2006.
By Tony B
From: Around Boulder, CO
Jul 2, 2005
rating: 5.10a 6a 18 VI+ 18 E1 5a
|Should we conclude then that a bold anchor will eventually appear then in any place that someone eventually leaves bail gear? Should those who don't want to see the canyon bolted to kindom come start removing every fixed anchor in the canyon now? In anticipation that a wad of slings around a horn or tree 1/2 way through a climb in some odd parthenogenesis will eventually become a bolted anchor? I feel sorry for anyone who is injured in a fall, but citing that as a reason to put up fixed anchors mid-pitch is lower than pathetic. It smacks of paternalism and superiority. People are people and can guide their own lives, assessing risks and making choices. It's not like I never lost a friend to climbing, but I know that sanitizing climbing to whatever level will make people more dependent on fixed gear, not safer. Having personally cleaned brains, yes *brains*, off of the walls in Eldo twice now, I can tell you that inexperience and lack of self-reliance has caused the accidents I have seen, and that "nicer" fixed anchors would not have saved either climber. Besides, you are going to have to pick an arguement, is it about saving trees or parenting and protecting other climbers? More people have been hurt approaching the Bastille Crack's initial right facing dihedral then anywhere else in the park I can think of. Please tell me that we are not going to bolt that!
By Tony B
From: Around Boulder, CO
Jul 2, 2005
rating: 5.10a 6a 18 VI+ 18 E1 5a
Most of the time when logical and rational people argue a point, it is not the data upon which they disagree, it is the value they assign to each point- thus reaching a different conclusion when weighing the arguements.
This climb is a ~40-year-old classic multi-pitch climb, it has stood as long without needing bolts and although the canyon and it's visitor numbers and profiles have changed, I don't see such an anchor as being necessary. This is a convenience anchor. Perhaps it would replace less sightly slings around a horn, but as long as those have stood they have been reasonably safe and I am unaware of any injuries precipitated from their use. Now, I have seen a lot of bolts placed in the park lately, where trad gear was available, and I have seen the impact that they have had. With the new anchors above Duh Dihedral, Handcrack, Terminal Velocity, Pool of Blood, etc... the character of the area has changed. Notably, all of those climbs are climbs I have lead and then placed a normal gear anchor above, some requiring directionals, some not. But by bolting these do you instead attract big crowds of people into certain areas and degrade the area? There are already plenty of areas around boulder with loads of single-pitch climbs with bolted anchors. Do we have to turn Eldo into one of them? How many more TR anchors does Eldo need on climbs that have been there for 40 years?
We've hashed this out before, on Blind Faith, but I can see that that whole discussion has been erased, and since I suppose it was considered resolved and does not affect the "beta" for that climb, that is a reasonable resolution. As a person who will be submitting a bolting application to ACE, I appreciate ACE and believe it to have a legitimate function, particularly when it comes to evaluating new route applications and replacing old gear- like with like, or occasionally saving a tree, etc.
But as they say now, the shoe is on the other foot. For years ACE FHRC was dominated by an anti-bolt faction that was over protective and wouldn't approve anything, but now the tide is reversed. I like the FHRC as a concept, but I am against the present interpretation of the policies and I honestly believe that the present influence in the park is a negative one. ACE and the FHRC are also directed to listed to public imput. Please consider visiting this site frequently to review these submissions and give your input & feedback.
For my own part, I do more than complain and criticize. Having climbed over 600 routes in Eldo over the last decade, and on every crag there... and not being against new routes and anchors in general, and beleiving myself rational enough to consider each route on it's own merit. I did volunteer to serve on ACE a few years ago. I was turned down as there were "a great number of qualified candidates" apparently much more qualified than me. So for now I speak from the outside.
By Ron Olsen
From: Boulder, CO
Jul 2, 2005
rating: 5.10a 6a 18 VI+ 18 E1 5a
Tony Bubb writes:
"Should we conclude then that a bold anchor will eventually appear then in any place that someone eventually leaves bail gear?"
No, of course not. Every proposed bolt anchor goes through the FHRC review process. Only those that muster majority support from the climbing community will be installed.
TB: "Should those who don't want to see the canyon bolted to kindom come start removing every fixed anchor in the canyon now?"
I hope that fixed sling anchors that are regular rappel routes would be made better by climbers who use them. Cut off old tatty slings and install a new one of your own. Feel free to remove bail slings from places that are not standard rap routes.
TB: "I feel sorry for anyone who is injured in a fall, but sighting that as a reason to put up fixed anchors mid-pitch is lower than pathetic."
I was not advocating putting up a fixed anchor mid-pitch. Beth Coats' accident occurred when traversing off the top of the first pitch of Blind Faith. It is unlikely that a bolt anchor will ever be placed here, since community sentiment is against it.
My argument is one made by Richard Rossiter: there are far more important things in life than the arrangement of bolts on a rock face.
TB: "More people have been hurt approaching the Bastille Crack's initial right facing dihedral then anywhere else in the park I can think of. Please tell me that we are not going to bolt that!"
I can tell you unequivocally that no bolt will ever be installed at that spot on the Bastille Crack, as long as the FHRC process is in force.
TB: "For years ACE was dominated by an anti-bolt faction, but now the tide is reversed. I like ACE as a concept, but I am against the present interpretation of the policies and I honestly believe that the present ACE influence in the park is a negative one."
Regarding a bolt anchor on Chockstone, I am speaking as an individual and not as a member of the ACE board.
ACE and the FHRC do not have a pro-bolt ideology. ACE and the FHRC are committed to implementing the FHRC process in a fair manner. Input from the climbing community carries the greatest weight in decided if new bolt anchors are installed. If you don't want to see a particular bolt anchor that has been applied for, vote against it on the ACE web site, and come to the FHRC public meeting and vote against it a second time.
Another ACE function is fund raising. Money raised by ACE goes to the park to maintain and build climber access trails. This year's project is a new trail on Hawk Eagle Ridge.
I urge all climbers to support this effort by attending Celebrate Eldorado. There will be a party and bouldering competition at The Spot on Thursday September 15th, with an auction where people can bid to climb with famous climbers. Roger and Bill Briggs, Christian Griffith, and Alec Sharp have already agreed to participate. Other activities include a trail run, trail building, and a self-rescue clinic, which will be held in the park on Saturday September 17. Mark your calendar and plan to attend!
By Anonymous Coward
Jul 2, 2005
Like Tony, I have done well over 500 routes in Eldo, many of them numerous times, and have been climbing there for 35 years now. I also have applied for a position on both the ACE board and the FHRC but apparently I don't have the qualifications either. I firmly believe that these positions are not filled with the most qualified people that apply which makes it a "who you know" kind of appointment.
The FHRC has done a commendable job in the past towards preserving the Eldorado experience and the limited resources available there. The problem that we face at this point is to prevent the pro-bolt faction from sanitizing the Eldorado experience beyond recognition by placing both midpitch and first pitch anchors that are simply not needed. The logical extension of this policy would be to replace degrading fixed gear with bolts, etc.
As has been pointed out countless times, there are plenty of areas around Boulder where short climbs with bolts and fixed anchors abound. The bottom line is that not every climb or climbing area needs to be accessible to every person.
By Ron Olsen
From: Boulder, CO
Jul 2, 2005
rating: 5.10a 6a 18 VI+ 18 E1 5a
AC writes: "The problem that we face at this point is to prevent the pro-bolt faction from sanitizing the Eldorado experience beyond recognition by placing both midpitch and first pitch anchors that are simply not needed."
Mid-pitch anchors will never be installed. From the FHRC guidelines, Section 3.4: "Applications to add anchors in the middle of existing pitches, i.e., anchors that make it easier to retreat before the traditional end of the pitch, shall be denied."
As to other bolt anchors, the following has to happen before such an anchor is installed:
1. An application has to be made to the FHRC for such an anchor.2. The application has to conform to FHRC guideline Section 3.4.3. The application has to garner majority support from the climbing community via voting on the ACE website and voting at the FHRC public meeting.4. The application has to be approved by the FHRC and the park.5. The applicant has to install the anchor or find someone to do it. Believe it or not, but there are several anchors that have been approved by the FHRC that have never been installed.
Fears that the Eldorado experience will become sanitized beyond recognition are overblown.
Climbers who don't want to see new bolt anchors in Eldorado should vote no on FHRC applications for such anchors and make sure their like-minded friends vote no also.
By ac
Jul 2, 2005
As another avid Eldo Climber -- though I haven't kept track of the number of routes; let's call it 'plenty' -- I'd like to weigh in here.
Bob D, and others, state: "There are more important things than an arrangement of bolts on a face" or something similar.
I agree, and there are less important things as well. Its the balance between pure convenience and ethics that we're trying to find. This is not a simple argument; climbing isn't simple, and it does it and this discussion a disservice to treat it as such.
Ron states: "Its just a game, folks", or something similar
I disagree, at least largely. Even after reading the sad story of Beth Coates. Sure, climbing is not war, or solving poverty and world hunger, or curing cancer. But its also not "just a game" -- at least not to me. And, it is my opinion after 18 years of climbing that there's an ever increasing trend to trivialize the climbing experience, simplifiy it, dumb it down and reduce it to a small subset of what it really is. Climbing is *not* just a trivial, playful, passtime... it is a serious endeavor that requires concentration, skill, technique, practice and dedication. There are risks, they are part of the experience; why turn climbing into something trivial?
I have *never* started up a route, in Eldo or elsewhere, considering it was "just a game" -- those that do, (Ron?) I suggest, should re-appraise their choice of activity. To take something like climbing lightly, to take a downclimb lightly, to take any moment of potential exposure lightly is -- as the Coates story exemplifies -- a grave error. But that is part of the experience!! That is part of climbing!! If you don't get that... well, then -- you don't get it.
And, Eldo -- perhaps especially lately -- has been a sacred ground where those of us who appreciate the full experience of climbing can trust won't be dumbed down, and turned into something less.
Keep the convenience bolts to the Sport Park. Vote "NO" on these conveniences and other attempts to reduce the experience of climbing to just a game.
By Ron Olsen
From: Boulder, CO
Jul 3, 2005
rating: 5.10a 6a 18 VI+ 18 E1 5a
When I said climbing was "just a game", I was not trying to trivialize it or imply that it was, or should be, risk free. Climbing is "serious play", as Steve Dieckhoff says. It's a game; a serious, potentially deadly game, that requires skill, concentration, vigilance, and constant awareness.
Inattention, overconfidence, distraction, fatigue, hastiness: any one of these factors can precipitate a mistake that can kill even the most experienced climber.
What climbing is not: a test of manhood or machoness, taking on risk and danger more than what is inherent in the sport. We climb for adventure, excitement, the joy of movement, the challenge of testing ourselves, the bond we share with our partners. But - it is a recreational pasttime; not something that is going to change the world in any meaningful manner.
I draw the line at unnecessary risk: accidents waiting to happen.The 31-32m between the rap station on Knight's Move and the rap anchor atop the first pitch of Chockstone, for example. Anyone doing that rappel without having the ends of their 60m rope perfectly aligned could be in big trouble. The hardcore say tough; deal with it, you screw up, you die. I say move the anchor up 5 or 6 feet and allow people to clip in before coming off rappel at an exposed stance.
In 25 years, I've seen my share of nasty climbing accidents and even have seen one person die right in front of my eyes; something I never want to see again.
Climbing can never be dumbed down; risk is inherent in the sport. But foolish risks? Sorry. The game is already risky enough.
By Josh Janes
General Admin
Jul 3, 2005
|Is Ron the head of the ACE? If he is, shouldn't his views be unbiased? I do appreciate his encouraging of others to get involved in making decisions about managing Eldo.
By Ron Olsen
From: Boulder, CO
Jul 3, 2005
rating: 5.10a 6a 18 VI+ 18 E1 5a
Josh - I am not the head of ACE; Rick Casey is the ACE president. I am just one of seven members of the ACE board.
I am speaking as an individual in my advocacy of the Chockstone anchor, and not as a member of the ACE board. For all I know, every other member of the ACE board could disagree with my position; I haven't asked them. In fact, I know that several other ACE board members have strong feelings against convenience anchors.
My position on ACE in no way confers any special powers to make anchors happen. I will not submit an application to the FHRC for a bolt anchor on Chockstone. This anchor will never be installed unless someone else submits an application, and the application receives majority support from the climbing community. Frankly, I don't see this happening.
My advocacy here is just trying to express another view, to give the "we like Eldo the way it is and don't want any more convenience anchors" folks something to think about. For me, there is more to climbing than just my experience of it. I often think about less experienced climbers and what difficulties they might confront. Handling a rappel rope that doesn't quite reach the next anchor may not be a problem for you or me, but I am saddened by the number of accident reports I've read of people going off the ends of their rappel rope and dying. I don't want to see this happen in Eldo.
I'll bow out of this discussion now; I've made all the points I want to make, and I appreciate the fact that others, perhaps the majority of the climbing community, disagree with my position. I know we all care passionately about Eldorado, and want any changes to be for the better, not for the worse.
By TBlom
Jul 4, 2005
no offense, but what does an unroped accident have to do with this route? I have found bail booty on [Blind Faith], which is indicative of someone rapping off from the top of the first pitch. unroping is a personal decision, free soloing in [Eldo] is another altogether.
I think [Chockstone] will become crowded as a top rope if there are rap anchors installed
By Ron Olsen
From: Boulder, CO
Jul 4, 2005
rating: 5.10a 6a 18 VI+ 18 E1 5a
My last comment on this thread has disappeared from the site. Let me reiterate some of the points I made and make a few new ones. I hope that no one "jerks" this post!
1. I am not the head of ACE; Rick Casey is ACE president. I am one of seven ACE board members.
2. My advocacy of the Chockstone anchor is as an individual, not as an ACE board member. I don't know how the other ACE board members feel about this anchor; I haven't asked them. In fact, several ACE board members have spoken against new bolted anchors atop the first pitch of climbs in the past.
3. My position on ACE in no way confers special powers to make new bolted anchors happen.
4. I won't apply to the FHRC for a new bolted anchor on Chockstone. I wanted to express another view to give the "we like Eldorado the way it is and don't want any new bolted anchors" people something to think about.
5. To me, climbing is more than my personal experience. I often think about less-experienced climbers and what difficulties they may confront. Dealing with a rappel rope that comes up short of the anchor may not be a problem for an experienced climber, but an inattentive climber could rap off the end of the rope and die; certainly there have been many accident reports to that effect. I don't want to see this happen in Eldorado.
6. Solid belay and rappel anchors are the bedrock of roped climbing.Having solid anchors in no way makes the actual climbing any easier!
7. I'm sure all people involved in this discussion care passionately about Eldorado; we all want any changes to be for the better, not for the worse.
And finally, a pop quiz:
What Eldorado classic now has a mid-pitch bolted anchor that is often used to bail from the route before the original end of the climb?
Have you bailed from this route using this mid-pitch bolt anchor?
Do you feel this anchor "dumbs down" and "sanitizes" the Eldorado experience? Or is it just a "convenient" way to do the climb today without having to go all the way to the top?
If you have bailed using this anchor, don't you think it is hypocritical and elitist to argue against bolt anchors at the end of the first pitch of more moderate routes?
By Ron Olsen
From: Boulder, CO
Jul 4, 2005
rating: 5.10a 6a 18 VI+ 18 E1 5a
Tevis Bloom writes: "I think Chockstone will become crowded as a top rope if there are rap anchors installed".
Tevis - Chockstone already has a rap anchor at the top of the first pitch; it's a bunch of slings around a block.
The first pitch of Chockstone already is a popular top rope, accesible by leading the 5.7 first pitch of Knight's Move or Purple Haze.
By Anonymous Coward
Jul 5, 2005
|It's called censorship thats what's going on.
By Ron Olsen
From: Boulder, CO
Jul 5, 2005
rating: 5.10a 6a 18 VI+ 18 E1 5a
I think cb.com has some bugs in its software that are causing comments to disappear. I posted two comments on routes in Clear Creek Canyon last night and now they are gone.
No one would have "jerked" these beta comments, and the site administrators would have no reason to remove them.
The site administrators need their software and database experts to look at this problem and fix it.
In the meantime: don't get paranoid; I'm almost certain that comments are not being removed intentionally.
By TBlom
Jul 7, 2005
|I have been quoted, but my post has been removed. I know there is already an anchor there. That is why some people don't see the need for another one...duh. anyway I thought that my comment was fairly simple and to the point, that it would be more popular as a toprope if it had bolted anchors. and that some parties hoping to lead the climb may experience more of a wait than usual because of the ease of TRing this route with bolts. either way, I'll use whatever is there.
By TBlom
Oct 14, 2007
I went back recently, and I have to admit that the sling anchor is total sheit. Perhaps a bolt anchor would be better than the decaying slings and rock mass.
p.s. careful for the "chockstone"
By Stich
From: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Oct 31, 2008
|The one leg of lamb chockstone near the bottom crux of pitch one will move in and out of its slot about three inches, but still won't come out. Did the second pitch for the first time yesterday and thought it was very interesting. It has some funky moves in there that get you thinking. Short and fun. You can rappell to the base with a single 60m rope from here or move down the ledge and use the other rap station.
By Jay Eggleston
From: Denver
Sep 29, 2009
|I combined the first and second pitches today and it made for a nice, long pitch. I had avoided the second pitch for a long time but found it to be fun and well protected with small nuts and small cams. I was pleasantly surprised to find the bolt anchor at the top of the second pitch. You are missing out on some good climbing if you only do the first pitch!
By Andrew McLean
From: Colorado
Nov 28, 2009
I lead this yesterday combining P1 and P2 as my second 10a lead in Eldo. Combining both pitches is a solid and full value endeavor. Pro seemed fine on P! as I took a small fall on a #1 rock at the crux. The 2nd pitch was a bit trickier and spaced out pro for me. It took a minute for me to figure out how to protect the last traverse move. If you look close there is a good .5 Camelot if you don't mind giving up a handhold. The cam made it WAY easier to commit to the traverse moves.
Oh and seriously guys... This is a beta forum for Chockstone. If you want to debate anchor ethics in Eldo. than maybe move it to the general forum?
By Phil Lauffen
From: The Bubble
Oct 10, 2010
|Go for combining the first two pitches. It turns out into a great pitch, and there is a bolted anchor waiting to convey you down into the arms of your belayer after crying a little at the very top. Bring small nuts of the metallic persuasion and larger nuts of the other variety.
By Phil Lauffen
From: The Bubble
Oct 10, 2010
|Oh and I don't know why everyone calls it a blind placement. You have massive feet and can place a nut clearly in view way above your head. Then just finish the crux and place another piece. Don't stop halfway through the 3 move crux.
By Ben Weisman
From: Boulder, CO
Mar 31, 2012
|I found a pair of shoes at the base of this climb today right after some people packed up for the day and left. Shoot me a message with how many people you were with and what brand of shoes they were, and come pick them up!
By Jeff McLeod
May 16, 2014
rating: 5.10a/b 6a+ 19 VI+ 19 E2 5b
|I wasted a good amount of time reading the flame war in the comments above after doing this route yesterday and came away with the thought of "why would anyone only want to do the first pitch of this route anyway...?" I linked the first and second pitches, and I would have given it 3 and a half stars if I could, I think it was a delightful, challenging, sustained pitch with one of the coolest and most awkward topouts I've ever done. A great spot to belay off a tree at the top while you laugh at your partner trying to finish it a few feet away from you and try to remember how the hell you did it. I think it is important to place a #0.75 Camalot in the big hold at the finish to make sure your follower doesn't swing into you if they blow the topout.
By Mark Rivera
Aug 17, 2017
|Fantastic route - P1 crux was more awkward than difficult - seems fair at 10a crux to easier terrain. P2 had creative moves (look outside the crack for some great edges and jugs - likely covered in chalk). I struggled to make the move to the chains! Ended up with a strenuous transfer to left hand jug while smearing feet. There is probably an easier way. Helpful for leader to place a green Camalot at the very top of the exit to protect the second from a possible pendulum with the rope over the arete.


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IES 2011 Civil Engineering (CE) Paper I,II Question Paper & Key
Indian Engineering Services (IES 2011) Indian Engineering Services Exam (IES / ESE) is a combined competitive examination conducted by the Union Public Service Commission (UPSC) for recruitment to the Indian Engineering Services (IES). UPSC IES 2011 Civil Engineering CE Papers I & II The entire technical subject (Civil Engineering Paper) is divided into two papers (PAPER 1 & PAPER 2). The second day is allocated for the Objective... [ Continue reading... ]


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These coloured etchings by Phillip Allen are the first he has made and are exclusive to Other Criteria. They share similar pictorial qualities to Allen's paintings, described in the context of his major show in 2006 at the Milton Keynes Gallery, as having 'an arena within which a kaleidoscopic array of brightly coloured geometric, biomorphic, architectonic or numeric motifs are free to play'. However, one of the most striking and independent characteristics of these etchings is the freshness of Allen's draughtmanship and the luminous, transparent appeal of line and colour. They seem to work against, while simultaneously working with, the layered and 'worked' surfaces of his paintings and drawings.
Phillip Allen was born in London in 1967 and currently lives and works in the capital. He was educated at Kingston University, London and Royal College of Art, London, where he obtained an MA in Fine Art in 1992.
Allen is known for his textured paintings and pen drawings, both of which use colour and shape to exploit his materials to their inherent potential. His sketches and felt-tip drawings display a fascination with geometry and abstract form, and possess something of the school boy's doodles, despite being controlled and intricately arranged.
Allen has exhibited broadly, including the following group exhibitions: The British Art Show 6, BALTIC Centre for Contemporary, Art Gateshead;, touring to venues in Manchester, Nottingham, Bristol, 2005; Archipeinture: painters build architecture, Le Plateau/Frac Île-de France, Paris; Camden Arts Centre, London, 2006 and Layer Cake, Fabio Tiboni Arte Contemporanea, Bologna, Italy, 2007. Recent solo exhibitions include Phillip Allen: Recent Paintings, P.S.1 Contemporary Art Center, LongIsland City, New York, 2003; One Man Show, Xavier Hufkens, ART Brussels, 2005; Milton Keynes Gallery, Milton Keynes, 2006 and The Approach, London, 2008-9.
The artist is represented by The Approach, London.


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If involuntary plantslaughter—the horticultural equivalent to the misdemeanor crime—were a punishable offense, I'd surely have violated the terms of my probation many times over. Yet, despite my inability to nurture nature, I wander among it time and time again. As long as none of these photosynthesizing creatures are left in my care, they usually escape unscathed.
For people like me, the Santa Fe Botanical Garden offers a plant furlough like no other.
For more than 20 years, the nonprofit SFBG has provided northern New Mexico with educational programs and two preserves, the Leonora Curtin Wetland Preserve and the Ortiz Mountains Educational Preserve. In early May, it began construction of a water-wise public demonstration garden called Museum Hill Garden, located on Arroyo de los Pinos, adjacent to Museum Hill in Santa Fe.
Santa Feans are no strangers to the differing botanical ecosystems that exist around these parts. It's what draws so many of us to Santa Fe in the first place. For proof, just check out any hiking trail at any hour of daylight and you'll see folks and dogs alike wandering among the junipers and other allergy-inducing plants we love to love and love to complain about come spring. But what makes a botanical garden rock is it's a place to sit, a place to learn and a place to gather.
Any ethnobotanist knows the way in which people relate to plants says a lot about the culture of those people. In Paris, gardens are manicured to perfection, with not a single leaf out of place. The Jardin des Plantes, a 4,500-plant-strong garden in the center of Paris, has row after row of perfectly placed and meticulously labeled flowers, and the nearly 2,000-acre geometric and maze-filled Gardens of Versailles features perfectly manicured lawns.
The gardens of London or the United States seem unruly in comparison, despite sculptural displays and constant pruning. While France and Japan are known for their complete control over nature, English-speaking cultures tend to let things be a little freer.
Currently, the SFBG's preserves are the epitome of Wild West gardening. There is little human coaxing, though the 35-acre Leonora Curtin Wetland Preserve has had much restoration and preservation, including the removal of non-native and invasive species. The ponderosa and piñon-filled Ortiz site has numerous ongoing education programs—and it's a great place for bird watching.
Fran Cole, outreach director for SFBG, says the preserve "is a real jewel." "It's a wetland, which lots of people don't expect to find when they come to Santa Fe. It's very green, it has lots of native flowers that are blooming all summer. It's a special place to go and walk and feel like you're in the middle of nowhere, even though you're right off Frontage Road."
The Ortiz preserve, Cole says, is "a very different environment. It is the high desert. It has a really wonderful peak called Placer Peak, which is a rather strenuous hike but the views up there are rather spectacular. It's a special place to go and commune with nature, especially because it's so rugged."
At the Museum Hill site, the 11-acre garden will allow nature lovers to experience a diverse collection of fauna that reflects the area's botanical heritage (be sure to check out the design plans and plant list on SFBG's website). The garden's plans also include several courtyards and sculptures.
"Someday it will be an amazing state-of-the-art garden that people will want to visit when they're on Museum Hill, just like they go up there to visit the museums themselves," Cole says. "It will be a place where locals might go once a week to write, to read, to visit, to see what's growing and what's blooming and what's being added."
Though planting isn't scheduled to begin until 2010, restoration of the Arroyo de los Piños, which runs through the center of the garden's site, is now underway. In addition to developing the new garden—which is located just behind the overflow parking for the Museum of International Folk Art on Camino Lejo—SFBG hosts classes and events all year long. These include everything from kid-friendly storytelling to bat watching to garden tours in several historic Santa Fe neighborhoods. Best of all, many of the programs are free.
"Gardens are a special place that everybody loves to visit," Cole says, "and if you're a gardener it's even more meaningful because a gardener knows what they're looking at."
Of course that's not to say that planticidal people can't enjoy the botanical gardens. So if, like me, you fear taking the lives of plants into your own hands, SFBG offers the chance to stop and smell the roses (and the agave and the yucca) without causing any harm.
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Ortiz Mountains Educational Preserve
Open for events select Saturdays and Sundays, April through November
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13th Annual Garden Tours
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Small Group Tours
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Bat Watch
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Ortiz Mountains Educational Preserve
3rd Annual Fall Fair Plant Sale
8 am-2 pm Saturday, Sept. 26
Santa Fe County Fairgrounds
3229 Rodeo Road


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After asking for a show of hands from air charter operators who are experiencing difficulties filling pilot vacancies, FAA deputy director of flight standards John Duncan told attendees at last month's NATA Air Charter Summit that he gets involved in discussions about pilot shortages in a lot of different venues. "From an academic standpoint, it's going to be interesting," he said. "But from a community standpoint, it's probably going to be a little painful. This is a dilemma for the aviation community."
Although the big airlines have always been able to attract flight crews with the experience that they needed, there is a perception that the new flight, duty and rest rules will create a need for more pilots. A second dynamic is the new first-officer qualification rule, with which the smaller feeder airlines are already having problems. So the airlines have to look to other places for pilots.
How that affects the Part 135 segment will be a challenge, Duncan explained, because it means that pilots moving to Part 121 are going to need 1,500 hours, "which puts [Part] 135 operations in a different place." He asked NATA attendees for their support for a "U.S. aviation academy" that is now under discussion. It would use four-year universities to train pilots and mechanics and leverage financial backing so the costs of training would not be insurmountable.
Duncan was elaborating on comments made by his boss, director of flight standards John Allen, at the Air Charter Safety Foundation's symposium earlier this year. He also talked about a looming shortage of pilots and aviation maintenance technicians. Talking with academia, Allen said, the FAA has floated the idea of a U.S. aviation academy program to try to stave off a lack of pilots and AMTs.
Allen envisions a five-year program in which the pilots would come out with a four-year degree and instrument and multi-engine licenses, although funding needs to be worked out politically. Internships would be created along the way, so enrollees would work with charter companies for the 1,500 hours they need for an ATP.
According to Duncan, the academy plan would allow some control over the entry standards and some control over the selection of those candidates who come into the program. In addition there would be some "exit ramps," so that when applicants don't succeed they can move on to something else.
Cost of TFRs
Also under discussion at the meeting was the implementation of temporary flight restrictions (TFRs). Zach Carder section chief for general aviation risk reduction at the TSA, acknowledged that several years ago there was a perception and perhaps even a reality that only certain members of the federal government grasped the effect of TFRs on GA when they were implemented.
"To some extent that was true," he told attendees at the summit. "I don't think at any point it was due to an agency not caring, but more so that they were so mission-focused on what their responsibilities were, especially with any of the TFRs that involved the Secret Service."
In addition, while the FAA is responsible for controlling the airspace and promoting air commerce, the job of the Secret Service is quite simply to shield those under its protection at various events from attack on the ground or from the air. The Defense Department, meanwhile, defends the airspace to prevent an airborne attack.
"So finding the middle ground between all of those missions can be quite complicated and quite difficult," Carder reminded, "so you give on one hand and you take away from the other until at some point it becomes unacceptable to the respective agencies."
He said the TSA is trying to make internal changes to lessen the impact on aviation operators and airport businesses. "Your points are definitely taken to heart," but he emphasized that the TSA doesn't control the airspace. That is under the purview of the Secret Service or DOD.
matt (not verified)
July 5, 2012 - 10:33pm
Another story about an alleged pilot "shortage"! Delta and their pilot group have come to an agreement that will park up to 200 50 seat RJ's. Where do you think all those crews are going to go to? And with AMR bankruptcy still playing out who knows how many more pilots may lose their jobs. With all the pilots still out of work looking for what flying jobs that are may be out there, the job prospects look awful. The so called AMT shortage is more believable but not by much. If the shortage of AMT's was that bad then pay levels would be much higher and I would be wrenching instead of flying. So far I have not seen that happen either. So far the supply is still outstripping demand so wages are low for both positions. This article should have been titled "Cheap labor shortage will be painful".
As far as TFR's are concerned, only action from congress can stop the unreasonable and mostly unnessesary TFR's. Since very few in congress have any backbone to stand up to TSA and the other agencies responsible for them nothing will change.
Jerry Denim (not verified)
July 6, 2012 - 4:03pm
There is still a very large glut of over-qualified pilots in the United States. I know. I'm a regional airline Captain who's been in the aviation business for over a decade now. I attended a job fair a couple of months ago along with thousands of other over-qualified pilots, and among the few US airlines in attendance none were hiring, and all of them were curt and generally un-interested in talking to pilot candidates unless you were typed, experienced on their aircraft and had ridiculous extra-professional credentials like line-check airman, former astronaut, etc. The foreign carriers in attendance were friendly and eager to meet with prospective hires and one even went as far to tell me point blank: "We are desperate" The foreign carriers were offering superior salaries and most importantly the opportunity to advance your career by flying larger aircraft and quick Captain upgrades. Pretty much the exact opposite of the employment picture in the United States.
I was recently offered a chance to fly the exact same jet as I do now in China for triple, yes triple the take-home pay in a country where the cost of living is a tiny fraction of the US. The job also had a much better schedule and loads more vacation time. All of this in supposed "Communist China" and yet people still call the USA the "land of opportunity". I would be gone already but I didn't pass the strict Chinese aviation medical.
Foreign carriers routinely accept very low-time or zero time First Officers and then bear the burden/cost of training them to proficient pilots over many years. The same was done here in the States in the 1960's. Currently US airlines are turning up their noses at regional jet captains with thousands and thousands of hours experience who have been flying their passengers on smaller outsourced jets for years. Screw US airline management. They hate unions and love the "free market" so let them pay a "free market" price for their pilots. I am 36 years old, have a four year college degree and am still paying back the vile loan-sharking Sallie Mae for the $80,000 dollars I borrowed for my flight training (just flight training, no college in that figure.)
A tax-payer funded US airline training academy would give the airlines access to young eager, debt free, inexperienced pilots (willing to work for cheap) while passing over highly indebted, tax-paying experienced pilots like myself who have suffered for years at the hands of mercenary airline business practices. As a college grad and FAA certificated highly indebted professional pilot, I worked full time as a pilot for four years (first as an Instructor, then as a 135 night cargo pilot, then as a regional jet first officer) before I broke the $18,000 a year mark.
The airlines have had it too good for too long. Let them pay up or shut up. They can always raise ticket prices you know.
Clint White (not verified)
July 6, 2012 - 7:35pm
How many more of these "Pilot Shortage" stories do we have to endure? Ive been in the business now for over 20 years and I have YET to see any kind of pilot shortage. With the airlines consolidating and the general downturn in charter and corporate flying after 2008 there are plenty of qualified unemployed men and women out there. While things may be better overseas, here its still going to be a remains a very tough market.
I am interested to know exactly who these charter operators are whom are worried about pilot staffing. Just looking at most job openings, most charter operators WILL NOT hire pilots who arent already typed and more maddenly current on their airplane. There is simply no taste and/or no money for these companies to type pilots on their aircraft and in many cases to pay for their currency at one of the large simulation schools. Much of this is due simply to the current glut of pilots on the market and until that situation corrects itself, Im sorry to say its not going to change.
Im not buying the Pilot Shortage agrument until I see it for myself.
Hector (not verified)
September 22, 2012 - 7:02pm
Aviation academies would destroy small schools that are already suffering.


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