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A NATIONWIDE manhunt has been launched after a former cage fighter who violently attacked a dad-of-two in Burnley fled from prison.
Police have warned the public not to approach Ricardo Dunn, 32, after he absconded from an open prison in Buckinghamshire in the early hours on Sunday.
He was serving an indeterminate sentence following a conviction for GBH with intent on Peter Hoyle in July 2009.
The violent criminal knocked out his victim with a single punch before stamping and punching him as he lay helpless and unconscious in Leyland Road.
Mr Hoyle suffered a brain injury, fractured skull, had his teeth kicked out and he ended up spending five months in hospital.
Dunn was later jailed and was told he must serve at least four years, 16 weeks and five days of the indefinite sentence before the parole board would consider if he was safe for release.
But in the early hours on Sunday, he fled HMS Spring Hill, a Category D prison in Buckinghamshire with convicted murderer Darren Douglas, 46, from Birmingham.
Yesterday Mr Hoyle's former wife said she was 'disgusted' that Dunn had been allowed to serve some of his sentence in an open prison.
Kelly Newman, who has two children, Caine and Pharrell, with Mr Hoyle, said his life 'has been ruined' after the attack.
She said: "I think it is disgusting. I never knew he was in an open prison. Life has been so hard for Peter and my boys since the attack.
"The heartache and pain we all have had to go through has been very stressful and for my boys it has been hard having to learn a new dad, he's just not the same person anymore and this has brought it all back.
"I found out off my cousin who saw it on Facebook, and now I've had to explain to my boys before someone else tells them."
Dunn, living in Brierfield at the time of the attack, was an amateur cage fighter.
Mr Hoyle, a former soldier and body builder, used to work with disabled people at Alternate Futures in Blackburn and previously worked at Calderdale Hospital, Whalley.
He is now back at home living with his new girlfriend.
Kelly said he was 'a fantastic dad'. She added: "He will never be the same and will never fully recover. In my eyes his life has been ruined."
Burnley MP Gordon Birtwistle said it was 'absolutely disgraceful' that Dunn had been allowed in an open prison.
He said: "People who have been convicted for such violent offences shouldn't be in an open prison, it's as simple as that.
"I have nothing against open prisons but they aren't suitable for this type of offender. It is appalling, absolutely disgraceful.
"They have allowed him to be in an open prison but nobody has given a second thought for the victim of this attack."
Douglas was serving a life sentence for stabbing a man to death outside a pub in Birmingham in 1998.
Chief inspector Olly Wright, of Thames Valley Police, said: "We are keen to speak to anyone who may have seen these men in the area and can provide us with information about their movements.
"These men were both convicted for violent offences and I would advise anyone who sees them, to not approach them and call police immediately.
"Both men have links with other areas so may have travelled out of the Thames Valley to those areas.
"I would like to remind people that it is a criminal offence to harbour these men and anyone caught doing so would be arrested."
Lancashire Police have been made aware of Dunn's disappearance.
The issue of prisoners walking out of open prisons has been in the spotlight this year with a number of high profile criminals going on the run.
In May this year, prolific armed robber Michael 'Skullcracker' Wheatley, 55, went on the run from HMP Standford Hill on the Isle of Sheppey, Kent.
And on Sunday a fifth prisoner fled HMP Hatfield open prison, near Doncaster, in the space of five weeks.
Yesterday Justice Minister Chris Grayling said the number of absconds from open prisons was down 80 per cent over the last 10 years.
After being quizzed on the issue in the House of Commons, Mr Grayling said: "I do not believe it is sensible for this country to scrap open prisons.
"I believe it's sensible to have tougher risk assessment procedures and I think it is sensible not to transfer people to open conditions if they have previously absconded.
"Those are changes we have put in place in the last couple of weeks."


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Apple's iPhone: The Future is Hereby Anand Lal Shimpi on July 2, 2007 6:13 PM EST
- Posted in
- Smartphones
- Mobile
Pulling its Weight
In preparing for this review I spent quite a bit of time with Samsung's Blackjack, and honestly it still takes the cake as far as form factor and weight are concerned. Apple's iPhone is slightly thinner (-0.4mm) and 1mm longer/wider than the Blackjack, making it pretty darn close to what felt to me like the perfect smartphone form factor. Where the iPhone falls short is in its weight; while the Blackjack weighs in at 3.5 oz (99g), the iPhone is a hefty 4.8 oz (135g). While we're talking fairly small numbers here, the difference is noticeable. The added weight is by no means a deal breaker, but keep in mind that the iPhone is heavier than the Blackberry Curve in a device that's about the same size as the Blackjack; in other words, it's dense.
From left to right: Apple iPhone, Samsung Blackjack, Blackberry Curve
The heft of the device makes one handed operation difficult, something that is made even tougher by the touch-screen interface. In comparison, the Blackjack feels far more natural with only a single hand, just like a plain old cell phone.
From front to back: Apple iPhone, Samsung Blackjack, Blackberry Curve
Thankfully Apple went with a brushed aluminum exterior for the back of the iPhone, meaning we don't get the fingerprint ridden mess that has plagued some of the flashier iPods. The shiny metal rim around the glass screen does collect its fair share of grease, nicks and scratches, but there's not much you can do about that.
From Top to Bottom: Apple iPhone, Samsung Blackjack, Blackberry Curve
The device itself looks quite stylish, making even recently released smartphones and Blackberries seem archaic by comparison. A perfect marriage of a gorgeous screen and great industrial design, the iPhone is the first mobile phone I've used that feels like it was truly designed for 2007.
83 Comments
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EODetroit - Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - linkHoly Comprehensive Review Batman! That took most of my morning at work, good thing its practically a holiday here already.
Now my question is:
How many poop pictures has Anand received from the A-Tech staff?
Shimmishim - Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - linkYes. It was a good read. One of the best reviews of any piece of hardware (computer or consumer related) I've read in a long time. Reply
Anand Lal Shimpi - Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - linkThanks guys :)
And no, zero poop-pictures from AT staff.
Take care,
LoneWolf15 - Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - linkWhile not perfect as a product either, Anandtech completely skipped any Palm Treo devices for this comparison. The Treo has done SMS by contact for some time now, just as you have mentioned the iPhone does (I've had it on both the 650p and 750p; I'm sure the new 755p does as well). While I have some issues with Palm support as far as their product goes, I still haven't seen a smartphone that can do better --I blame this at least in part due to carrier wars and desire for control (i.e., crippled Bluetooth, not adding WiFi, so carriers can make you pay for everything through them), rather than blaming cell phone manufacturers. Reply
Anand Lal Shimpi - Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - linkThere were a number of products I would've liked to have included, but I was very limited by time so I tried to shoot for two of the most popular: the Curve and the Blackjack. I've already dropped Nokia an email but I'll do the same for Palm and see what comes of it :)
Take care,
Anand Reply
retrospooty - Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - linkYa, quite alot of things like that the Treo has done, and done well for a long time now, all that and an open platform. The issue is the latest Treo is, 4 years later, still the same repackaged Treo, with a few minor upgrades. The iPhone is by far the best UI, and that alone will be its saving grace, and its legacy on the industry. A few years from now, REAL smartphone manufacturers will copy the UI and improve everything, and do it cheaply, and on all carriers. That is the best thing about the iPhone. Reply
LoneWolf15 - Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - linkActually, in 4 years, the Treo added Bluetooth (the first 600p didn't have it), EVDO (the iPhone has only EDGE, which has been rated far slower, and slowest when provided by AT&T/Cingular, the single carrier of the iPhone), an SD card slot (600p didn't have one), and several other features.
As I said, the Treo isn't perfect. And I think the UI of the iPhone is pretty spiffy, plus I'll bet it has the best web browser of any phone on the market. But I don't think I could do without a real (by real I mean tactile) QWERTY keyboard (I rely on text messages for work, since cell reception can be spotty in a reinforced concrete building), I like having EVDO support, and I like the fact that I can choose from Sprint, T-Mobile, Alltel, Verizon, or AT&T Cingular for a Treo (AT&T/Cingular has little or no reception in my work area, so it nixes any thought of an iPhone, and by my understanding, they have a five-year exclusive agreement with Apple). And I can get a Treo for a few hundred less as well.
I want to like the iPhone. Unfortunately, Apple set conditions of pricing and carrier that mean I'll never find out how good a phone it might really be. Reply
sviola - Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - linkNot only the Palm Treo, but the Nokia N95, which is just awesome:
In-built GPS and Navigation Program (over 100+ countries maps)
5 MP Camera with Zeiss Lens and Optical Zoom, and Video Recording
Symbian OS
Plays MP3, video, etc
Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, USB, TV out
Quadriband GSM/WCDMA (3G)
MicroSD Card Reader
Among many other features. Reply
rowcroft - Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - linkThe iPhone looks great, but the big gotcha for me is that I routinely use my 8525 to access the internet on my laptop. Can't do that with the iPhone from what I understand.
As for all the comparisons to Verizon & such, if you look at the total cost of ownership (Verizon's data plan is significantly more expensive), the iPhone is just a few dollars cheaper than the Blackjack w/Verizon. Reply
Locutus465 - Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - linkI've got a Samsung i720 with verizon... For a "last gen" PDA phone priced at just $100 brand new from verizon when I got it, it's pretty sweet. Admitingly the display isn't quite as good as apples, but as far as functionality it does everything the iPhone does and more. I also appriciate the sliding screen with which reveals a keyboard. There's also the other advanatages I mentioned earlier, i.e. Windows Mobile being open to 3rd party development etc. Reply

subset: commoncrawl


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Twitter was filled with a flood of congratulatory Tweets for Boston's finest on Friday night, after they apprehended the 19-year-old suspect in the Boston Marathon bombing.
Celebs with deep connections to Boston and those without celebrated the capture and arrest of the suspect after an intense manhunt.
WATCH IT NOW: Honoring Boston Residents' Courage - Awards Show Friday (April 19, 2013)
Maria Shriver (@mariashriver) wrote, "Boston did what it needed to do. Finished the race. As I said, no messing with Bean Town."
Tom Bergeron (@Tom_Bergeron), who announced on Monday's "Dancing with the Stars" that the show was carrying the city in their hearts during the broadcast (and said he has family in the city), wrote, "A lot of Boston cops and other authorities will be getting well deserved hugs and high fives tonight."
Rosie O'Donnell Tweeted directly to the Boston Police, writing, "many thanks for all ur good work - well done."
WATCH IT NOW: 'American Idol': Angie Miller Talks Dedicating Song To Boston Marathon Tragedy
Here's what more stars had to say.
Joe Mantegna @JoeMantegna: Big kudos to the law enforcement community in Boston! Attention all evil doers, you will always get caught!
Sophia Bush @SophiaBush: Crying. Yes to this. #MyHeartIsInBoston RT @geekgiant: Where's the Kicktarter to buy all of Boston PD and Boston FD a nice frosty beer?
Rocky Carroll @RockyCOfficial: To the Boston P. D. and all the law enforcement involved…. Well Done !!
Hoda Kotb @hodakotb: Getting teary watching crowd cheer on Boston pd #jobwelldone
J.R. Martinez @iamjrmartinez: Big ups to #Boston PD & everyone involved in apprehending the second suspect.
Suzanne Somers @SuzanneSomers: God Bless Boston and God Bless America.
Tiesto @tiesto: I am impressed by how fast the US government caught those Boston Bombers! Well done!! #justice
Vince Neil @TheVinceNeil: NICE JOB BOSTON PD!! WELL DONE!!
Claire Coffee @clairecoffee: BOSTON POLICE YOU AMAZING. I feel absolutely horrible for the doctor who has to work on that monster's gsw.
Ryan Seacrest @RyanSeacrest: Thank you BPD
Richard Marx @richardmarx: What an amazing, courageous and expert handling of a nightmare situation. Boston authorities were as pro as most media was not #bostonstrong
Alyssa Milano @Alyssa_Milano: I am so blown away by the police officers and all 1st responders in Boston. Awesome bravery. I salute you! #BostonStrong
Michelle Visage @michellevisage: Told ya Boston PD wasn't gonna sleep til this bastard was caught! YOU GO BOYS IN BLUE!!!
Ron Perlman @perlmutations: What a stunning and tremendous effort put in by #Boston, and #America's finest. Inspiring!
Jonathan Frakes @jonathansfrakes: Well done #Boston law enforcement
Hank Williams, Jr. @HankJr: Give thanks to all the law enforcement and other services who helped capture the suspects in #Boston. #America


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Never forget your hallowed stomping grounds with this hand-engraved bracelet. The brass bracelet sports the city or neighborhood of your choosing, along with a lovely vintage patina that will only get better with time.
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Fiscal Picture Looks Supportive
Despite the market's two-day selloff, the fiscal picture continues to look very supportive this month. The market's reaction to the possibility of the Fed ending quantitative easing (QE) and reversing course on monetary policy, sooner rather than later, is indicative of the type of reaction we will see if and when the Fed actually does do that. I am not even the slightest bit worried that this will actually happen; nonetheless, that's the reaction we can expect. And, as I said in my post on Thursday, it's a reaction you should fade. In other words, buy into weakness.
Getting back to the fiscal picture, so far in the month of February, we have seen $326 billion in net withdrawals (net withdrawals equal total withdrawals minus public debt redemptions) according to the most recent data from the Daily Treasury Statement. Given that there is still time left in the month, that's a very large number. In contrast, all of January saw $325 billion in net withdrawals and December produced $296 billion in net withdrawals....317 more words left in this article. To read them, just click below and try Real Money FREE for 14 days.
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Last summer I was interviewed at Google's Chicago office but I was not given an offer.
Others rejected by Google have written about their experiences:
Here's my story:
It started when I received an email from a Google recruiter asking whether I would be interested. Sure, I was! Even though I was fairly content and well paid at my current job, I figured that if nothing happened beyond the interview process it would be an interesting adventure, like a voyage and maybe an extended stay in a foreign country. I am interested in different cultures and foreign languages. I've even coerced my family, when my kids were still compliant, into taking "vacations" in Mexico and Guatemala where we were in classrooms 5 hours a day, in Spanish immersion classes. Way back in the 70's I traveled the Hippie Trail, from Europe to India overland. So, even though I was content at my job, I was up for the adventure.
The recruiter scheduled a phone interview and gave me advice about how to prepare for it. First, review algorithms, data structures, and Big O notation. Second, read the Google papers on the Google File System, Big Table, and Map Reduce. I didn't mention to the recruiter that the first part, the "review" of algorithms, data structures, and Big O Notation, wouldn't be a review for me; it would be my first formal study of those topics. I was a liberal arts major, Ancient Greek and Latin (an armchair adventure). If I were to be around hard-core computer science majors discussing algorithms and data structures in precise academic language, it would be like me being among the Eskimos, with their many words for snow, me having just a few terms like "snow", "slush", and "powder". I understand the concepts and apply them daily, but I don't know the words for them. I don't know what the concepts are called. For example, although, I've learned to call a big array that only has a few of its slots ("slots"?) filled in a "sparse" array, I don't know what to call an array where each element is a linked list. I bet there is a formal name, but I haven't learned to speak that language. And I can't read or speak Big O, even though I have experience applying the concepts that Big O notation is used for. My software development skills are solid, but they are ... rustic.
Looking back, preparing for the interview was the most valuable and lasting part of the whole process, not so much for the algorithms and data structures, but for the Google papers. Prior to being contacted by the Google recruiter, I hadn't done any reading about the technologies on which Google search is based. I enjoyed learning about them. True, these days I'm not doing any programming where the Google technologies would have an application. In my day job, I work for a company that makes software for futures traders. On my weekends, I work on BugTracker.NET. Neither app has to deal with large datasets or parallel processing. But my previous day job was with a credit bureau, with a huge database of payment history that needed to crunched for the credit score calculations and needed to be digested for our our search engine (which I wrote). Maybe the idea of a credit bureau sounds boring to you, but it's interesting and challenging work. We didn't know what Map Reduce was, but we had a similar challenge because of the amount of data - the need to manage parallel processing - and so our solution ended up being very much like Map Reduce. Well, except that ours wasn't a general framework. I've since contacted my former coworker there and pointed him to Hadoop, an open source implementation of Google's Map Reduce. I really do enjoy my current job, but part of me wishes I was back at the credit bureau tackling those particular types of engineering challenges that big datasets present, playing with Hadoop. Plus, the data itself is kind of fun. If you are ever going to loan money to a business, you are safer lending to a Lutheran church in Minnesota than a restaurant in Mississippi that has the word "Grits" in its name. That's what the statistics crunched from the database tell us.
The phone interview was conducted by a guy from Google's Boston office. The questions were reasonable. I didn't read any of the non-disclosure agreements I signed because life is too short to read what lawyer-ese, but the golden rule of do-unto-others guides me that I shouldn't spoil the schtick of a fellow software developer's interview techniques by spilling the beans, so I won't tell you what I was asked. I did learn something, though, in the course of the phone interview: that cosmic rays can cause computer memory chips to flip a bit. Did you know that? I didn't know that. I wonder if in my career I've ever spent time investigating a bug that was cosmic by a cosmic ray?
After the phone interview a date was set for me to interview at the Chicago office. Before the interview I, well, what else, googled "Google Chicago Office" and got a sneak peak of what I was going to encounter. I even got a tour of the office: http://video.nbc5.com/player/?id=124170
As the day of the interview approached, I felt an increasing amount of distress. One of the sources of distress was my anxiety about being judged and falling short. In advance of the interview, I found that the infantile, emotional part of my brain was busy manufacturing reasons to not care how I was judged. One train of thought was that there is no "Google" that is judging me. There is just the guys on interview duty that day, the idiosyncratic individuals who were going to be talking to me that day. Maybe things would click with them, maybe not. And, especially in the Chicago office, there was no "Google" in that the developers there were the ones absorbed into the company from Google's purchase of FeedBurner, a Chicago startup, plus, the lead developers from the Subversion project, who had been recruited to run the development staff in Chicago.
Another source of my distress was that my mind was involuntarily preparing myself to leave my current company. Every work place has its shortcomings and irritations, but with time and self-hypnosis, if not outright self-medication, you learn not to dwell on them, to look at the positive. At that time, though, because of my poisoned mindset, I was becoming hypersensitive to every irritation, so that whereas I had been content before the process with Google started, I disliked my job by the time the interview came. Another part of the distress with my current job was keeping secrets from my coworkers. I have a great relationship with my boss and my partner, but I didn't tell them about the Google interview. I would never be good at cheating on my wife because during this period every conversation I had with them was colored by the fact that I was keeping a secret from them, lying to them. I had involuntarily emotionally detached myself from these guys. I felt lonely and fraudulent.
So, by the day of the interview, I was in emotionally unsettled. Where I really felt it was in the lobby of the Google office waiting for the interviewer to come and get me. The decor of the lobby and the office in general relies on Lava Lamps (a Chicago product). Hundreds of Lava Lamps. The thoughts I had while waiting were, "How juvenile to think that owing a particular product makes the owner cool!" and, as a bill-paying father of teenage boys who never turn off the lights, "How wasteful to be spending all that money for that wattage!". We took a family trip to Alaska during which a Denali National Park ranger asked us to think about the consequences of using florescent lights on the glaciers we were viewing. Hadn't the Google interior decorators seen "An Inconvenient Truth"? I would have felt more at home in a humble Amish household than I did in the pseudo-hip, purchased-cool, energy-profligate, global-warming-contributing lobby of Google's Chicago office.
I knew these judgments were being fueled by my unsettled emotional state. I knew that if Google were to make me an offer, I would accept it. I mean, hey, it's Google, the Angelina Jolie of tech employers.
It was the Subversion guys who were scheduled to interview me. These guys are somewhat public figures. They blog. Here's where maybe I made a mistake: I spent time reading their blogs and sent them emails about what I had read, pointing to some of my work which related to their writings and which reflected on me favorably. One of the guys had blogged about his favorite Chicago restaurants and I shared with him my list (He had tried and hated one of my recommendations....) I wonder in retrospect whether my actions were, to them, kind of creepy and uncomfortable? Like, I was some sort of stalker. Hey, see what I'm doing here? See the angst-ridden self inquiry? That's what you do to yourself when you get rejected by Google.
So, first one of the Subversion guys interviews me. He asked me how I would design software to do X, where X was the kind of challenge that Google has to deal with. The content of the interview as appropriate. It tested my thinking, experience, problem solving skills, rather than specifics of some language syntax. The design challenge was left deliberately underspecified, testing whether how I would dig with good questions to add more specifics. The guy conducting the interview played his part well. He helped me feel at ease, guided me well, gave clear answers to my questions.
In a previous job, I completely controlled the interview process for the developers I hired, and so I have some opinions about dos and don'ts in the interview. I think the Google interview was a good test and I thought this guy did a good job.
Maybe I did ok, because I got passed along to the second Subversion guy. The content of the interview was the same, a design challenge. But, this second guy was different. Whereas the first guy had put me at ease, the second guy shook me up. Now, I'm not a fragile flower at all, so I have rehashed the scene in my head to figure out what it was that happened that allowed this guy to shake me up. One theory is that this guy hooked into my primordial primate brain and pressed certain buttons that have been hard-wired into my DNA by evolution. Shortly before the Google interview I had read, "In the Shadow of Man" by Jane Goodall, about chimpanzee behavior, and "Our Inner Ape" by Franz de Waal, about bonobo behavior. The books had been given to me buy a friend, a school psychologist, with three daughters. She said that all her daughters had read the books too and that they used the zoological terminology from the books to describe various behavior they would encounter in males in their daily life. "He's just displaying" was one of their catch phrases, when they would witness some asshole making angry noises.
This second guy was definitely an alpha. He made intense direct eye contact with me, unsmiling. He seemed irritated. He didn't shake any banana branches at me or make mock charges at me, but he might as well have. His flat, cold affect in turn made me, I guess, somehow try harder, in a pathetic way, to evoke some sort of warmer response from him. If it would have helped to pick insects from his fur, I would have tried it. Now keep in mind, these thoughts are all happening while I was trying to figure out how to adjust my faulty algorithm for solving the design challenge to work in constant time rather than linear time (O(1) vs O(n) in Big O notation!. Look at me! I can spake Big O! Caramba!). There had been a misunderstanding between us earlier in the session, a sort of fork in the road of the conversation, so his thinking went one way down that fork and mine another. Although I eventually realized what happened, and saw the misunderstanding as mutual, that's not how he saw it, and my attempt to explain and backtrack to that fork in the road just sounded argumentative and weasel-like. Actually, I think one of the things I contribute to whatever team I'm on is that I'll be in a meeting and person A will be talking to person B, and they will be agreeing, but I'll realize that although they think they are agreeing with each other, they actually don't agree, but are merely mutually misunderstanding each other in such away that each is shaping what the other says into his own expectation. Even if there are a dozen people in the meeting, it ends up being me who intervenes and points out that A and B are not actually agreeing, only seemingly And it works the other way too, when A and B actually are saying the same thing, but because of misunderstanding, are arguing. (We call that "violently agreeing" with one another...)
That's pretty much where things ended. I felt a sense of impatience and irritation coming from the interviewer, because, I suppose, he had already made up his mind and didn't want to waste any more time on me. I asked him for some feedback, what his thoughts about me were pro and con, my weaknesses. Maybe there would be an opening for me to change a perception, but if not, I would have some more knowledge that maybe I could benefit from. And I can handle the truth. I'm the type of guy who tends to have painful post-breakup-analysis conversations with girlfriends who have dumped me, where I end up hearing details about the new boyfriend (One girlfriend told me about her new boyfriend, "He had never come in a girl's mouth before he met me". Gee, thanks for that image.). So, I was ready to hear what he thought, whatever he thought. But his answer was a curt, unadorned, unexplained, "I'm not going to tell you that.". I don't understand that part. That's really just about him, I think, so that he doesn't have to do anything uncomfortable.
Oddly, he then gave me a tour of the office. Game room, ping pong table. I can't imagine why he gave me that tour. It was a perfunctory tour, but, why bother? My thinking during the tour? You can go fuck the Lava Lamps.
I don't claim that I know anything about the second guy really, what he's really like. Our interaction was limited. My perception was skewed. I know it can be stressful to be in his shoes, the interviewer, especially if you know you are going to give a thumbs down to somebody. It's no fun. You have to sort of harden yourself to it. And maybe he was having a bad day. What looks like coldness might be just shyness. So, if somebody were to tell me he is a warm, generous guy to work with, I wouldn't doubt it.
After the interview I felt horrible. I knew I wasn't going to get an offer. Churning in my mind was what went wrong? I suspect that the second guy had a negative inclination about me the moment the interview started. It's just pure speculation. I have no way of knowing. The things that might have given him a negative inclination are:
* My age. I'm 52. I'm not claiming any sort of discrimination. I'm just saying that my age makes me maybe not look the part of a young energetic geeky software developer. Actually, I think age has changed me for the better as an employee. I do think I'm less "hungry" in the workplace, so in that sense, I don't try as hard. But overall, I'm more productive. Not just because of my experience and judgment, but because whereas I used to be a smart but disruptive hothead, now I'm more of a stabilizing elder statesmen, giving guidance to the young hotheads. In the mid 90's I worked at this company which went through an odd experiment of allowing folks to chose their boss. In answer to the question, "Who do you want to be your boss?", I was the #2 vote getter out of 110 developers. But, in answer to the question, "Who do you NOT want to be your boss?", I was the #1 vote getter. I'm not proud of that. A couple years ago, at my current job, my boss wrote in my review. "Everybody likes him". That I'm proud of. So, in short, age, and my two teenage boys, have mellowed me.
* My work experience is on Windows, not Linux. That's a legit demerit against me. My day-to-day hands on skills are not on Linux. I can use Linux, but I'm much slower and I have to look things up. Also, there's probably a prejudice that a Windows programmer has a different mentality than a Linux programmer, in the same way I prejudge a Hummer driver to have a different mentality than a Prius driver, or a Visual Basic programmer to be different than a C++ programmer. An interviewer has to make decisions based on limited info, and the fact that my experience is on Windows is fair game. I think it is appropriate for a tech interviewer at Google to have those prejudices. I think there is some truth to generalizations, so, it's appropriate to factor them in.
* My education background, liberal arts instead of computer sci.
* Perspiration stains around my armpits. Well, no, I'm just making that one up. I hope.
Take those three together, and it would be a special interviewer who could overcome prejudices and see me as a fitting into a team of 20-something developers with engineering degrees. I'm not accusing anybody of anything illegal, unfair or narrow-minded here. The essence of doing an interview and making a hire/don't hire decision is to take a few impressions, inadequate information, and make a judgment. Or, maybe, there wasn't any negative inclination, that it was purely a case of the interviewer judging my design skills to be lacking based on how I handled the questions. Could be. Maybe I truly don't have the brain power Google is looking for. Maybe I truly am *NOT* a good fit for what Google is looking for.
As I walked from Google's office to my the building where I work, I had to steel myself to deal again with all those things at my current job I had grown to be irritated with. The process of detaching myself from my current job had progressed so far that I was irritated by the smallest things, but I knew that I quickly needed to re-acclimate myself to all those annoying people and practices. As I write this today, I am back to being a happy and well adjusted model employee. I like my co-workers, my boss, my boss's boss. There are many things that my current company is doing right. As compared to Google, we don't have hot lunches, but we do have free bagels and cereal. I'm on the 14th floor, but I like the granola they have on the 10th floor, as opposed to the Captain Crunch they have on 14. And we don't have ping pong, but we do have a Wii room (always busy) and fussball, which I suck at. And, thankfully, we don't have any fucking Lava Lamps.
Lava Lamps are an interesting analogy. Old school, uses lots of watts, purchased coolness. And made in Chicago!
Andrew Davidson
first, i don't understand why you (or so many other people) want to work for google. second, i've seen blogs from high ranked google employees and... erm... they're not ubber geniuses.
most of the times interviews go wrong by the wrong reasons. dont go hard on yourself. many people would envy your position.
Mind games, drive me nuts. Second guy was just a pig, jealous someone might take his job. Be content with your life and forget the "mighty" google
I can sort of empathize with you here. I was interviewed by Google coming fresh out of college and the overwhelming thought in my mind after the interview finished was "How in the heck did I get as far as the physical interview?" They were looking for someone with a lot more experience than me. Everyone who interviewed me was several years older, and Google was their second or third job out of college.
Cyde Weys
You are just an interior decorator. Not a house builder. Quit whining.
Your 2nd interviewer sounds antisocial, socially inept, and comes across as if he would be a complete bear to work with. In a sense I am glad you didn't get the job, as working with someone of that nature would drive me up the wall.
Regarding "You are just an interior decorator. Not a house builder. Quit whining". To continue with your analogy, I think I am too a house builder, but the house would be built without a building permit, undocumented-workers as labor, with some lumber I stole from some other construction site in the middle of the night, and would have many building code violations.
Corey Trager
Hip is the new square. I'm glad you're not hip enough for Google. Working for Google is very overrated.
I don't know you but I think Google is the Starbucks of work places.
Oh, dear. Thanks for trying. I feel bad you had a bad interview with the second engineer, he might just have been stressed out. Since most reviews involve rejection, people feed bad about them.
I'm an engineer at Google and I've given over 200 interviews there.
We know we leave a lot of good people on the table; we know that you're in the category where we're more likely to leave people on the table; it's extremely hard to know how to fix it without breaking this system that works fairly well. Certainly, it's better to miss a good engineer than to hire a bad one in general... Also, I feel that the "language barrier" might have been an issue; but frankly, I'll bet that, sigh, it was a fair test and your lack of "fundamentals", a sort of generalized base computer science skill set, was what flunked you.
I'm a musician, so I compare this to scales. If I were hiring, say, a pianist for a band that was already successful, I'd simply require the the pianist could do various things like scales in different keys, various standard vamps and that sort of things, pretty well perfectly. Now, I'm going to miss some brilliant pianists whose minds don't work on "scales" but, heck, I'm a pretty "out" musician and I still know my scales.
So that's something we tend to just require you know. If you don't instinctively know O() of your algorithms and have a standard toolkit in your mind that will let you do standard things fast, if you don't understand hashtables on a gut level; if you don't have a feeling for what O(log n) means and don't instinctively know that you can insert into a table in O(1) but into a *sorted* table in O(log n); well, it won't be impossible for you to pass but it might be difficult.
When it comes down to it, I want to be able to say to another engineer, "OK, it's cubic in the size of the problem, but the queries are are Zipfian (have a Zipfian distribution -- many interesting things do!) so if we cache 90% of the items, we can respond to 99% of queries in less than a millisecond."
I'm an older engineer too; I don't have a computer science degree (but I have a math degree, and that's different from liberal arts). But I feel that I should be able to kick these kid's asses if I'm going to hang around them. All code at Google is formally code-reviewed and I'm a pointed reviewer, extremely polite but relentlessly critical and I nearly always manage to make it shorter and faster because of fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals.
Computer science is adolescent if not mature; there aren't going to be radically better solutions for most of the fundamental operations appearing; there are about a dozen algorithms (hashing, indexing and inverted indexing, Bloom filters, tries and similar O(log n) structures, sorting, a few classic, simple graph algorithms) that are "the best" for certain extremely common needs, and even fewer ideas (O(), delegation, abstraction/lambda/closures/frames, caching, functional programming and a few more - you might know these ideas under radically different names) that you need to know, a really solid grasp of first year mathematics, and a few dozen gotchas and rules of thumb that will likely depend more on the system you're working on, and then you are as good as the next guy (and G certainly hires people who don't know all of the above either...)
Again, thanks for applying, and I'm sorry you didn't get it. It's an exciting place but it's also an awful lot of work... :-D
Tom Ritchford
Tom - I'm offended by you writing that the "queries are Zipfian", all at once bringing both sexual orientation and ethnic background into this discussion!
What is this 'lava lamps' ?
Kartik Mistry
Ok, Tom, my juvenile remark aside, your analogy about a musicians and scales is fitting for the
story and has special relevance for me:
After college, after the Hippie Trail, I came back home (Detroit) and started getting gigs as a
classical guitarist. Classical guitar was something I taught myself in my teens. No private
lessons, although I had been exposed to other guitarists via clubs and master classes. I became
good enough so that I was in ensembles together with musicians from the Detroit Symphony
Orchestra, with performances broadcast on the local FM classical music radio station.
Me in 1982, I think: ifdefined.com/files/guitar/bryce_sarabande.mp3
But as you might suspect, there WERE deficiencies in my musicianship as a result of my lack of
formal training. And I did NOT know my scales.
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bob-ak » Blog Archive » Google interview
A question that you could aks yourself:
Why is the job at Google so important for me?
Roland, my first programming job was at Kmart. "Kmart" doesn't have the chick-magnet cachet that "Google" has.
Corey, thanks for the story it was a good read. Remember that despite the hype, google is an advertising company, bottom line. If hired you would have been spending your time basically trying to get people to click on ads. So maybe you had a lucky escape after all.
Tom, your referring to google as "we" made it sound a bit like a cult, as opposed to a place to work. "google goggle one of us, one of us..." (from the movie "freaks").
Buford Twain
Unfortunately, Google is meandering down Microsoft lane. It is becoming the same kind of environment fostered there in Redmond, with interviews and a culture designed to test *knowledge*, and not particularly skills, or innovative thinking, or creativity, or work ethic.
Thanks for sharing that story with us. Frankly, I think you already have a good deal where you are apparently trusted and respected. Granted the work you're doing may not be as cool, but it's what you make of it.
I have heard how wonderful it is to work at Google, but also how hard it is to get in. Don't fret, you rose to the occasion and took a chance. We all take chances...and if every chance we took guaranteed success....well, that would just spoil the fun of taking a chance.
"I did learn something, though, in the course of the phone interview: that cosmic rays can cause computer memory chips to flip a bit. Did you know that? I didn't know that. I wonder if in my career I've ever spent time investigating a bug that was cosmic by a cosmic ray?"
Raghu Srinivasan
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Tech interview questions » Google interview preparation techniques
So it's chicks then?
Google needs these two types of people:
1) People who care only about living and breathing technology; kids content to play with their own toys. Started programming as kids; best place on earth = CS lab at university; has/contributes to open source projects; understands gcc internals.
2) People who are techno-savvy but primarily interested in the problem domain and architecture of solutions -- they are aware of the competition, typical solution architectures, typical problems with typical solution architectures. Politically aware. Can code decently well.
Which category do you belong to?
Your chances of being appreciated at Google drop every day they hire new PhDs and workaholics.
Tis better to find a company where they appreciate their engineering staff... and not just by showering them with perks designed to keep them at work.
Google Reject 52312b
>"*Actually, I think one of the things I contribute to whatever team I'm on is that I'll be in a meeting and person A will be talking to person B, and they will be agreeing, but I'll realize that although they think they are agreeing with each other, they actually don't agree, but are merely mutually misunderstanding each other in such away that each is shaping what the other says into his own expectation*".
I call this "symmetric mistranslation"
Burton MacKenZie
Somehow, the software running this blog, BlogEngine.NET, deleted a days worth of the comments, including some entertaining ones by the actual guys who interviewed me.... Sorry to all those who took the trouble to post. I don't see any way for me to get the info back.
Hi, Corey,
I caught your website from today's Silicon Valley plug.
At 52, don't fret about not hooking up with Google. I'm 88 and can speak with conviction -- you have many years to go before you sleep. The problem is the promises you have to keep. You have intriguing writing talent and a splendid base of education and experience to write from.
So you are a classical guitar afficianodo? Great! Check out my website www.aventuraproductions.net or just google (!) Aventura Productions - Loose Ends. I have a particular affection for the sound track on Don Juan DeMarco. Can you think of a writer of comparable talents who is not in such great demand?
John Updike, I believe, once complained (?) to the effect that when he was young he didn't know anything to write about so he made his mark writing about what other people had written, but that now that he is old and has a life time of experience to write about, he doesn't have the time or the energy required to do so.
At 52 you're just starting to get your bearings. America needs you.
Lew Warden
Wow, thanks for that comment on the ex-girlfriend, really fit into the story.
I'm kind of surprised that you mention a liberal arts degree as a point against you at the office after you spent time reading the Subversion developers' blogs--at least one of the two engineers who interviewed you most likely also had a Classics degree.
- fellow Classics student, though I spent a good time studying Computer Science as well
Michael Greene
Where are my comments you have deleted mine as well
Vishal Sharma
I went through the interview a year ago, so I have some basis on which to comment. I have three technology startups under my belt (2 successful, 1 a dismal failure). I found the interview to be interesting, but not that useful for hiring great thinkers and/or experienced tech people (the interview definitely removes the chaff from the wheat - the smartest shine).
Hiring people with no real past is a luxury because they are in a business that has about a total 5 year window of experience, that will change and there is no real substitute for experience. It's like skiing, I can tell someone exactly how to ski, what to expect, give them all the visual and physical cues, train them with ski exercises etc. etc., put them on the slopes, show them video, but day one, they can't ski even though they have all the knowledge in their head of how to do this thing, like building businesses it takes real experience and real failures/successes to learn from.
Although they own/build lots of products they have failed to deliver profitable/successful product/service #2 (Search they obviously own, until better search comes along) I recently reviewed and edited a business plan for better search and the bottom line is that a new more intuitive search will be created and not by Google's teams, it will come from the outside and as fast as people switched from Yahoo, MSN, Altavista, Metacrawler etc. is as fast as users will shift to a better search (better mousetrap). There's very little stickiness in search, all you need is to remember a new word... like BetterthanGoogle
I will give Google credit they seem to acquire some of the best startups in the technology space (e.g GrandCentral, Picasa, Keyhole, YouTube etc.), they just don't seem to have found the next killer app like Search.
They are doing something right and as their is a blog dedicated to discussing their interview as a "hot topic" that generates buzz and interest and lowers their hiring costs. Time will tell if their hiring strategy works, I think it may backfire as Google matures, lots and lots of Indians with lots of arrows, too few Chiefs who know when and when not to use the arrows.
"When it comes down to it, I want to be able to say to another engineer, "OK, it's cubic in the size of the problem, but the queries are are Zipfian (have a Zipfian distribution -- many interesting things do!) so if we cache 90% of the items, we can respond to 99% of queries in less than a millisecond.""
The google guy who said the above is either ignorant or arrogant. I worked at Microsoft for more than a decade and I can say 99% of the time the situation described above does not happen in a software engineering job. Most of the time, you don't need fancy data structures/algorithms. The work is about executing and executing. For the 1% time you need a fancy algorithm, you look that up. Many computer scientists will agree with me on this. Don't believe me? Take a look at the book "Programming Pearls" by Jon Bentley and see the kinds of interesting problems engineers face. Many problems have elegant solutions. No fancy stuff is involved.
I'm still bummed about the glitch in BlogEngine.NET that caused me to loose about two dozen comments. I wanted to sum up here some highlights of what got lost. First, here's a comment I posted both here and at Reddit, so at least it didn't get lost:
It's been about 24 hours since I posted this blog and there have been dozens of comments both here and in my blog.
Reading some of the themes in the comments, I want to clarify:
* The intent of my blog post was to write something that others enjoy reading. I wanted to amuse and entertain you. And if I generated some Google AdSense revenue from it, all the better. The events I wrote about occurred in June 2007. I was a little bummed for a week or two back when it happened. Nothing more.
* The interview process I went through at Google seemed to me intelligent and appropriate. I don't think my interviewers did anything wrong. I have no corrective feedback to give to my interviewers. Now, I know that these guys have used their encounters with other people as material for THEIR publications, so I don't feel bad using them as comic fodder in MY story. But, bottom line, I don't have anything to say against them, or Google for that matter. I know from their blogs that the guys who interviewed me are well-rounded, many-faceted, with accomplishments outside the field of computers.
* Do you know that feeling when you are at a party and and somebody says something funny but you can't think of anything to say funny back. And then, the conversation moves on to something else while meanwhile you continue to try to manufacture some clever rejoinder. Later, the party breaks up, you are leaving the party, walking down the front porch steps and only then, you suddenly think of something witty you should have said, but of course now it is too late. Has that ever happened to you? Ok, well, if you live in the United States, you probably don't know the word for that situation, but the French call it "Esprit d'Escalier", the Germans "Treppenwitz", and the British, "Staircase Wit". You have now learned the technical scientific term for some phenomenon that you have known for years. You knew the concept even though you didn't know the word for it. That's all learning Big O notation was for me. Learning the concise mathematical notation for something I thoroughly understood and was able to express with other words and in my software designs.
End of the comment that got lost. So, now me in real time:
Both of the guys who interviewed me posted comments here. They were both entertained by the article, which makes me glad and relieved. They offered some constructive feedback in a truly friendly, positive way: They both said it WAS a touch uncomfortable that I contacted them prior to the interview, and also uncomfortable that I asked them for pros/cons on the spot. The second guy was a particularly good sport and joked that if we do bump into each other some day, do say hello, don't bother picking insects out of his fur.
It turns out, both of my interviewers have liberal arts degrees, and indeed, the second guy's degree is, like mine, in Latin and Greek. Ironic plot twist, huh?
They both confessed that they too had to cram on Big O notation in preparation for their own interviews at Google.
I like how my subjective account from just my own point of view had the feel of objective truth, especially when I was confirming stereotypes that people, including me, already had. But then, when you throw in the subjective point of view of the other players in the story, it overturns the little world my narrative constructed.
Corey: What's "all at once bringing both sexual orientation and ethnic background into this discussion" about Zifpian? I don't get the joke. Zipf's Law is legit enough.
Hey, don't run to Apple too fast.. I did a contract there.. and I wish I had never stepped foot into the place because the minute I started.. all grand ideas of this Awesome place to work at.. disappeared instantly. Instead I was surrounded by a bunch of socially inept apple zealots.. At one point I was asked by my supervisor to turn off my Win-notebook's audio because the startup/shutdown music disturbed my fellow co-workers. Are you friggen serious? How old are we? Then to actually see the "future of digital distribution" from behind the curtain. Oh my gosh, command line.. all command line.. are you kidding me!
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Geek & Roll - Blog Archive » Angelina
your observation about how the workplace culture sorts out between the two poles of young hothead and elder statesmen in software companies/departments confirms in my mind that the workplace environment is *still* not an environment that is conducive to nurturing women's participation in this field in general.
As far as google is concerned, a female friend who recently graduated with a phd and was hired by google shared with me her assessment that google will only hire women who have phds.
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Baron VC » Blog Archive » Enter the Googleplex
Having just gone through this process, I know exactly what you meant when you talked about your perception of your current job going south. It's funny how our minds silently prepare us for these kinds of things.
Steven Klassen
Thank you, Corey, for an excellent account -- and at the same time providing a dialog which brought in two people from the other side of the table.
GOOG's argument of biased screening to avoid false positives ("better to miss a good engineer than to hire a bad one") bears striking resemblance to justifications invoked by TSA recently for removing a passenger's nipple piercings with a wrench. Birds of a feather...
Perhaps it's an effective strategy for a company which is still relatively new in the larger scheme of things, still enjoying its piles of cash.
However, it'd be difficult to believe that people making those kinds of calls inside a monoculture (like GOOG) have much experience making judgments outside of a conference room. That rhetorical posture belies a lack of history, of how the pendulum swings.
Paco Nathan
Paco - you think Google is a monoculture? More so than other tech companies? I figure than any company like Microsoft, Yahoo, Google that was started by techies is going to have a bit of a different slant in AGGREGATE than one started by MBA's, but I would still think that there would be a sufficient diversity that you could find all kinds of people and philosophies about hiring. But Google is a company, and it seems reasonable to me that management would want to standardize their hiring practices, so in that sense, looking at employee behavior, if employees are adhering to the guidelines, then Google would appear from the outside as seeming like a monoculture.
I'm reacting to this view of Google as monoculture because of my own experiences with a place that is widely viewed as a monoculture, Japan.
My wife is Japanese (not Japanese-American, but Japanese). From time to time I find myself in conversations where I am complaining about my wife. Hey, we've been married 18 years (tomorrow is our anniversary) and I've accumulated some grievances, ok? Anyway, the people I happen to be venting to sometimes tend to explain the conflict between me and my wife as being rooted in cultural differences. I guess to outsiders, the impression of her Japanese-ness overshadows the impression of her particular personality. But not to us (and our kids) here INSIDE this family. Here on the inside, it's that PERSON that is driving the other spouse crazy.
So, I distrust a viewpoint that doesn't sufficiently factor in individuality.
Happy Anniversary
I'm no expert on GOOG, never worked there. I wish them well and enjoy using their services. People who've worked for me have gone on to interview or work there, so I hear stories. Sometimes I attend community events at the Googleplex, and maybe grab at mocha at Red Rock Cafe in Mountain View. (Quite a spot to overhear Google staff in conversations at nearby tables, especially on the new second floor addition.)
My sense from friends working at the three firms you mentioned is that GOOG is much closer to being a kind of "monoculture". Considerably more so than YHOO, yikes. Recruiters targeting relatively narrow profiles, stories about ideas and people being labeled more/less "Googly" -- those points seem to confirm the gut feel one gets walking through their campuses. YMMV.
A counter example might be Bell Labs. I saw it as an MTS there in the mid-80s. There was no sense of ideas which didn't fit, or narrow hiring profiles, but instead a focus on solid engineering and science. GOOG will have many, many years of consistent breakthroughs ahead before their culture can claim that level of success. Maybe they'll pull it off, but their first real round of layoffs will be quite telling, since their culture seems to be about huge profits and free lunches.
This may not count for much, but I was in the same grad department as GOOG's founders (a few years earlier, mostly the same profs, similar courses, and taught there). Maybe I'm missing some key point, but all those limo buses, free Naked drink stands, and sophomoric interview tests don't add up to the culture we had at Stanford CSD. Not even close. Someone like Brian Reid, infamous at both organizations, would be much better equipped to comment about that point.
Anywhoo, I don't mean to knock the value of individuality. And congrads on 18 years!
Paco - you have street cred!
What do you mean by "their first real round of layoffs will be quite telling"? Like, what are possible scenarios and what would you conclude from them?
good to read, Corey.
I had a similar approach at Microsoft some months ago: I read KO into his eyes after fifteen minutes. he didn't want to know my patterns, he wanted me to know exactly his perfect ones.
when you hire, you got some hours to explore their skills; when you're hired, you got some hours to give the best of yourself. both situations are not easy.
maybe if I went the next day, I would be in Microsoft now. maybe not, who knows: never be discouraged.
For some reason I can completely hear you saying this stuff out loud. And I hate lava lamps too.
Hey Corey,
very interesting story. I will have an interview with google on Thursday and I'm not sure if I should prepare for that or just wait and see. I'm a student and I just want to do an internship for a short time, but their recruitment strategy is really stressing me...
It was encouraging to read your post and all the comments of the others. I'm sure I can handle to get rejected now . But I'll give it a good try!
Thanks for your thoughtful blog post. I'm a Google engineer and am sorry to hear that it sounds like one of your interviewers was a jerk. Most interviewers try to put candidates at ease, but I totally believe your account of your second interview. I also can't say you're wrong to wonder if he was turned off by your age, although Google does have more non-youngsters than outsides realize. My husband and I, both Google engineers, are 40ish. Just yesterday, I had lunch with a >40-yo colleague who didn't graduate from college, and another colleague told me he's planning his upcoming 50th birthday. Still, engineers 40+ are in the minority.
As a previous Google poster said, the Google interview process rejects lots of great people. That's not just a line: We all know it firsthand from former colleagues we referred who didn't make it through the interview process. (In the language of information retrieval, the precision is great, but the recall is terrible.) If it's any comfort, Larry Page said that he's bad at this sort of interview and was rejected by Microsoft.
Feel free to email me if you'd like to discuss any of this off-line. I'm also going to pass your feedback on to your recruiter.
Ellen, I'm must quoting myself here from a comment I posted a while back. Both of the guys who interviewed me posted comments back the comments got lost because of a tech glitch here. I summed up what they said as follows:
Both of the guys who interviewed me posted comments here. They were both entertained by the article, which makes me glad and relieved. They offered some constructive feedback in a truly friendly, positive way: They both said it WAS a touch uncomfortable that I contacted them prior to the interview, and also uncomfortable that I asked them for pros/cons on the spot. The second guy was a particularly good sport and joked that if we do bump into each other some day, do say hello, don't bother picking insects out of his fur.
It turns out, both of my interviewers have liberal arts degrees, and indeed, the second guy's degree is, like mine, in Latin and Greek. Ironic plot twist, huh?
They both confessed that they too had to cram on Big O notation in preparation for their own interviews at Google.
I like how my subjective account from just my own point of view had the feel of objective truth, especially when I was confirming stereotypes that people, including me, already had. But then, when you throw in the subjective point of view of the other players in the story, it overturns the little world my narrative constructed.
Thanks for your reply to my message. I should have read the comments more carefully.
Have a nice day!
I too come across the situation you mentioned that "they actually don't agree, but are merely mutually misunderstanding each other in such away that each is shaping what the other says into his own expectation"
Love this story and have read it several times cos it reminds me of ... me! Had a really good belly laugh at how the situation affected your perception of curent job - can REALLY relate to that. Had a similar experience but completely different company. I guess we subliminally self-impose pressure on ourselves "to do well".
Corey maybe you will get lucky and the lost comments will show up on Archive.Org after about 6 months..
You have a fluidity to your prose, a pleasure to read. Where can I find more of your writing? A personal blog? Are you a guest contributor to other online publications?
Just here
Hi Corey,
Yesterday I downwloaded and installed your bugtracking tool and I must say I really like this tool. I thought I might have a look at your website and read some interesting blogs on JIRA and about your interview with google. I think your a genuine persons with an honest heart and can really emphatize with your story.
You clearly have a writing talent, and as you say its not google but one indivual that is judging you. I say fuck the lava lamps and the big O, keep up your creativity and nice blogs !
Greetings from the Netherlands
Well, I have the opposite experience. I knew much more than the guy that interviewed me (at least 10 times as more). I actually teach computer science to kids like him for a living. I answered correctly all the questions on the phone interview, but didn't get in person interview. Seriously, do you want to work for a company where they ask Computer Science Professors to find the i^{th} Fibonacci number? Maybe because I said "a of i" instead of "a opening square bracket i closing square bracket" I didn't get the job. Anyways, the fact that you didn't get a job at google has 0 correlation with your skills and my experience proves it. I am sure that the opposite is also the case, the fact that you get a job there doesn't mean you are good at computer science. If they let top candidates slip, this means they are not getting the best people.
I'm a strange creature. I love being a developer. Discovering new tricks to doing things. But at the end of the day, I go home and work is forgotten.
I've worked places where the developers "live and breathe" their work. We didn't even have defined working-hours... you woke up at 3am (or whenever you felt), had something to eat, went to work. Maybe stop by Wal-Mart/Asda on the way home to find it's shut because it's 5am Sunday.
Years of that... and I've realised its better to "be average". My last interview; turned up 20 minutes late, mentioned that I go to a pub at least twice per week, and that I probably play more poker than I really should. Of my past CV/Resumè, they seemed pleased to see "5 years bar experience" at the end of it (most recent experience first of course). I also showed them my portfolio. I got the job. They wanted a human, not a hardcore guy. They were sick of those guys.
I don't think I'd ever want to work around such hardcore guys as I had previously. Enjoy your life! Stop trying to be the UTTER best. Be content that you're just "Pretty damn good"!
Your problem wasn't your age. Your problems are:
1) You talk too much.
2) You are too emotional for technical industry.
3) You can't deal with people which are unlike you.
In other words you expect surrounding reality to change to fit into boundaries of your vision of life instead of you trying to adopt to reality. It's common problem of many people.
To make long story short I will say as somebody said above: Quit whining.
I think that they thought "Hey, he's 52, and with all that time, he couldn't, at least, get a computer science bachelor degree?. And his English sucks, too!". You had a, what we at work call, "book burning experience", in the sense that whatever you may know at the moment, just doesn't matter.
Maybe... It's just a thought.
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I enjoyed reading your blog entry. It was interesting. Also comment from rulsan!
Corey, I love the post. Had a similar experience with a company I thought I was a slam dunk for. Actually I had already accepted another position and was just sort of interviewing this other company for future reference. a) Interviewed with manager - A+ - hit it off - would love to work for him. b) Interviewed with lead developer who showed me crappy C code and asked me to explain how it worked. I wanted to say no professional would ever code like that and it went down hill from there. c) Lastly interviewed with a Phd in a flunky staff position who needed to show he had the right stuff - so painful I laughed at the guy in disbelief. No offense but the last two guys wanted a junior guy with skills (read into this H1B) that they could dominate and would not threaten their positions as this company oscillates between hiring and layoffs.
Obviously the parallels ended somewhere in the middle of my rant but it made me feel good to write. Regarding the G cloud, your experiences reinforce my anectdotal insights into google. G land would rather have the best algorithms on earth than spend a fraction of that effort on user interfaces and connecting to the masses in an appealing way. If every G camper is an algorithm guru, how on earth do they ever decide which way to go? Someone has to put it all together, make it user friendly and reliable, provide support through it all and figure out next steps. They are so busy swinging for the fences that they sometimes lose the value of incremental progress.
Incremental and steady work is boring, but if they want to de-throne the MS kingdom (which they have the talent to) they gotta step back and look at the big picture - not just the next big killer app using the slickest algorithms to date.
all the points are so interesting..
Corey I thought is was a great blog post.
Mostly because I felt you were as honest and introspective as possible rather than trying to mitigate the experience for your own comfort. Good writing.
Also I'm sure you know interview success is a less than perfect assessment of talent. I interviewed for Novell in 92 when they were a well respected company. I was rejected. Then at a later date hired, promoted, and received an employee of the year award. Can't make sense of that one.
Also when programming as a teenager I had a mentor - with no degree at all. He was just a brilliant guy and I don't think he was an expert on big O notation.
I love your post, too, especially the part about mutual-misunderstanding accepted by the parties involved as quite the opposite.
My ire raised on reading the ramble from the Google Engineer, the math/music/blah blah blah guy: "[...]we know that you're in the category where we're more likely to leave people on the table; it's extremely hard to know how to fix it without breaking this system that works fairly well. [...] but frankly, I'll bet that, sigh, it was a fair test and your lack of "fundamentals", a sort of generalized base computer science skill set, was what flunked you."
I bet you could have 'seduced' that guy into giving you an excellent grade if you had crammed just a litte bit more of the vocab and phraseology before your interview. Maybe you can you do time-space complexity analysis in your head or with visualization and in that case the math really doesn't matter except as an academic merit badge that you need to fool the trolls guarding the lava lamp lounges.
Really Google is so big and well funded and has so many resident geniuses working hard doing the work that sustains it that the multiple mistakes in hiring I bet they make are very easy to overlook: excess people at Google living off the fat of the land (so to speak).
That said, I would really love to work at Google.
Fear and loathing at the job interview....Some want to hear the about big O notation, others want to hear about "design patterns and idioms", and maybe others want to know what libraries you use, but in the end, to them, it doesn't much matter what you've actually done and what you are capable of doing. What matters is that you look like what they think is goodly--analogous to what Kant wrote about beauty in Critique of Pure Reason--that the unfamiliar is likely to be regarded as ugly. Too bad older is uglier.
After reading your tale my reservations about installing bugtracker.NET are removed. I mean I trust you enough to go ahead with it. Of course I googled bugtracker.net and security as part of the due diligence required before putting btnet on a public server. And I think it will be fun.
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My Job Interview at Google - good coders code, great reuse
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Good story.
Tks very much, nice post
tks for nice post
I enjoyed the story and the comments, too. It is nice to see how many intelligent people discussing this topic. However I mostly agree with ruslan: probably you're a bit too emotional for such job. Being 52, to recall some bad words of an ex-girlfriend 20-30 years before... well...
One more thought: knowing big O probably does not help you too much in work at Google as well (however I can't be sure). But understanding the concept behind it, and that there are VERY different solutions for a problem, might indicate a way of thinking that is essential in writing good software. By the way I can hardly imagine why to "cram" the big O or any other concept like this, as somebody wrote here. At least I am quite sure it does not make much sense.
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Stylish, soft, and unique onesies don't necessarily mean spending hours at the store or nervously trying to create a DIY item with mixed results. Wordsation has original designs on their onesies from artists around the globe, with a new artist each month. They offer you the option of adorning your baby in wearable pieces of art…much more fun that a boring, plain-colored onesie. This is an excellent place to pick up baby shower gifts, especially if you want to avoid giving duplicate gifts the mama-to-be will have to return. Our favorite feature? You can buy a year-long subscription for three designer onesies. A newborn sized onesie is sent to you right away, in four months you'll receive a 6 month sized onesie from the same collection with a new print, and eight months from now you receive a 12 month onesie with the final print in that collection. We know very well how hard it can be to pack away a piece of baby clothing you've become attached to, but this gift ensures a new favorite arriving just in time to fill the void.
Wordsation contacted us to see if we were interested in reviewing one of their organic onesies, and let me tell you, when we saw how cute they were, we waited eagerly to see the product in person. The Ginko onesie did not disappoint! Designed by Annie Wilkinson, the fun print looks just adorable. Not only is it unique, but the organic material feels so soft that we didn't have any qualms about slipping it right on our baby before washing it. Paired with a skirt, it's a fun little outfit, very appropriate for blueberry picking and enjoying the outdoors.
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I'm in San Francisco this week for a bunch of tech-related meetings. On Monday, I spent part of my day with someone from Google (GOOG). I came away really impressed, and I want to share some of the reasons why.
When Google Plus was introduced in June 2011, many people expected it to be the equivalent of Facebook (FB) right from day one. That's about as silly as expecting Facebook's Graph Search to be as good as Google's from day one. That wasn't ever going to happen.
When Google Plus didn't live up to being Facebook, many concluded that it was a failure. They pointed to past Google failures such as Wave and Buzz as part of a narrative that Google just didn't get social networking.
However, if nothing else, the day Google introduced Plus, its search results got smarter and more valuable for paid ads. That in itself was valuable and made the entire Plus project worth doing.
Now that Plus hasn't been in the news for a few months and Larry Page hasn't mentioned it on the last Google earnings call, there's a tendency to dismiss it as a failure.
However, my big takeaway from my conversation yesterday is that Google never stops. The company is a beast at just sticking with it. Even though you can point to several Google failures, you also have to remember Gmail, Google Maps and Google Earth. All of those services were ridiculed at first as being derivative or a waste of cash. And yet Google kept investing and iterating.
Today, we can't imagine living without them, and we're quick to criticize others such as Apple (AAPL) when they don't live up to the eight years of blood, sweat and tears that Google poured into Maps.
I believe that Plus is another sleeper Google service that you need to watch that will deliver a lot of value for the company over time.
It's never going to out-Facebook Facebook, even though I believe its mobile app is actually better than Facebook's or Twitter's. However, Google Plus can certainly go beyond smarter search. There are lots of ways that Google can better integrate Plus into other Google services such as Communications, YouTube and Android.
And it is doing just that today behind the scenes, and it's talking to lots of media partners that can make a difference.
Google Plus is smart, and it's good for investors.
Keep an eye on announcements coming out of Google's I/O conference in May.
This is a long-term investment for Google, and the company is not going to back down from it.


text:
Mariko Oshiro is not your average Tokyo cop. As the only female detective in the city's most elite police unit, she has to fight for every ounce of respect, especially from her new boss. While she wants to track down a rumored cocaine shipment, he gives her the least promising case possible. But the case - the attempted theft of an old samurai sword - proves more dangerous than anyone on the force could have imagined. The owner of the sword, Professor Yasuo Yamada, says it was crafted by the legendary Master Inazuma, a sword smith whose blades are rumored to have magical qualities. The man trying to steal it already owns another Inazuma - one whose deadly power eventually comes to control all who wield it. Or so says Yamada, and though he has studied swords and swordsmanship all his life, Mariko isn't convinced.
But Mariko's skepticism hardly matters. Her investigation has put her on a collision course with a curse centuries old and as bloodthirsty as ever. She is only the latest in a long line of warriors and soldiers to confront this power, and even the sword she learns to wield could turn against her.
©2012 Steve Bein (P)2012 Audible, Inc.
"Steve Bein's Daughter of the Sword is a strikingly original saga blending contemporary thriller and historical fantasy. Enthralling ... A noir modern Tokyo overwhelmed by the shadows of Japanese history. The research is convincing, the touch light. A compelling multifaceted vision of a remarkable culture, and a great page-turner." (Stephen Baxter, author of Stone Spring)
"A sharp and superb urban fantasy, Daughter of the Sword is the perfect melding of skillful prose, fascinating characters, and compelling story. Steve Bein effortlessly combines history and legend with a modern procedural in a book that will have you staying up late to finish it." (Diana Rowland, author of Sins of the Demon)
"Steve Bein's Daughter of the Sword really captured my imagination. The interweaving of historical Japanese adventure and modern police procedural, Tokyo-style, caught me from two unexpected directions. A tight read, lots of great tension, and epic stakes." (Jay Lake, author of Green and Mainspring)
Dr. Jim Fox -- Former College Professor and Mental Health Therapist
"Fantastic Story, more Fantasy than Sci-Fi"
I loved this story. I am a hard core Sci-Fi Reader, but this one seemed interesting to me. It was better than any of the Sci-Fi book I have read recently.
It starts way back when a southern section of China is captured by the Barbarians. Something evil happens throughout year for the owner, including two WWII.
Entering a US Scholar.
Anything more would be a spoiler, except, I think Allison Hiroto is the Absolutely the best fit of a narrator the this book
1*=I didn't like it..... 2*=It was OK...... 3*=It was good but I will never read it again.......... 4*=Maybe I will read it again in the future.............. 5*=I will definitely read it again(maybe more than once)
"Beyond my expectations!"
Well, it's worth reading, when I got this book,I expected solid 3*, I never expected it to be this good.
Plot is about 3 artefacts and how they interfere in modern world,the situation occurs in modern day Tokyo,and tells about societal balance between japanese traditions and modern day world, coexistence of police and yakuzas, and of course about newbie police officer and deranged maniac killer under the influence of the cursed blade, it has everything a good book should have, so it was very good....
The only negative thing is the narrator, she is not bad, she just does not fit this book,I would've prefered a male voice.
I also learned a very interesting word:
Karōshi (過労死), which can be translated literally from Japanese as "death from overwork", is occupational sudden death.
A really good story, great characters.
Swords, history, and a Japanese lady cop.
Looking forward to the sequel.
"A good solid read, but not on my must read list."
High middle grade. The story and character writing is solid and interesting. That said I never was on the edge of my seat, laughing out loud, or unable to put the book down. Give this author a little bit more seasoning and I expect him to be churning out some great stuff.
Lian Hearn, due to the Nipon warring states historical settings with a twist of supernatural.
Tiger on the mountain flashbacks.
No but I still very much enjoyed listening to it and found it entertaining.
"I loved this book"
Fantastic story. I loved how the history and present were brought together. I can't wait to read book 2
Great narration
"Different urban fantasy"
Great story. More thinking, not as much paranormal action. If you like swords and Japanese culture, you will love this book.
"Good beginning holds you till the end"
Awesome way to start a series. loved the time hops between the different eras. great read.
"Detective's accomplishments lack ability support"
Despite the magic of the sword, too unbelievable that she, so young and inexperienced and with only rudimentary training, could do what she did. The author did not do enough to convince me of the outcome.
The history of the sword was the most enjoyable part of the story for me.
"Thumbs up.."
Mariko the only female detective sergeant in Tokyo is on a three month trial before she has a permanent position within the drug squad. Her misogynistic boss is determined that this will not be the case, so to keep her out the way he gives her the impossible task of investigating an attempted robbery of a sword, blocking all attempts to uncover a drugs ring, the trifling case leads Mariko to the stunning story of three swords.
The story is back-filled with historical events from the age of the Samurai to the disastrous events of World War Two and a story of the three swords culminating with fate conspiring to bring Mariko and the three swords together.
Allison Hiroto gives a wonderful performance adding a definitive flavor of Japan both past and present, I would not say this an urban fantasy more like a police procedural with paranormal elements, throw in some feudal Japanese history and I may begin to describe the book as it's a mixture of genres.
I enjoyed it, especially loving the setting and Mariko's character.
I must just add what was really refreshing to the start of this series is you get a whole story! No frustrating cliffhangers here.
Looking forward to the next book..
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The next stage of the collaboration between BioDiem and VIVALIS will use known techniques to modify the LAIV virus to
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text:
LANDOVER, Md.—Redskins receiver Santana Moss exited Sunday's 21-13 loss to Carolina with a concussion, though it was uncertain after the game how bad it was for the veteran wideout.
Moss was hurt in the fourth quarter and did not return, but because the Redskins don't have another game until Nov. 18 (following their bye), he has time to recover. His status will be updated Monday, though it's likely that he'll simply be monitored throughout the week.
The Redskins will practice on Tuesday, but then won't return until the following Monday. Chances are his status won't really be known until they come back from the bye.
If Moss has to miss any time, it would be yet another blow to the passing game. Moss no longer plays full-time, having been relegated to slot duty. But he remains a primary target for rookie Robert Griffin III. And with wideout Pierre Garcon still sidelined and tight end Fred Davis out for the season, the Redskins can't afford another loss.
Young wideout Leonard Hankerson is inconsistent while Aldrick Robinson shows flashes but hasn't produced when given more time. Griffin needs a consistent target he can find and that's Moss. He's caught 24 passes this season, and five have gone for touchdowns.


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Roslyn Kind Plays The Grove Theatre, 8/18
The Grove Theatre in historic downtown Upland presents an unforgettable evening of popular songs with Roslyn Kind on August 18th at 8:00 pm. (Note: This concert is rescheduled from its original June 16th date.)
The younger sister of Barbra Streisand, this dynamic, multi-talented entertainer has forged a successful career in all facets of entertainment from critically acclaimed recordings to sold-out performances on Broadway and in top concert venues and nightclubs the world over.
A vibrant musical artist, Ms. Kind is familiar to both national and international audiences for her headlining appearances at some of the most prestigious venues including Lincoln Center, The Greek Theater and London's Café Royal.
Like her famous sister, she also began her performing career while still in her teens with the release of her first album, Give Me You. A whirlwind of performing activity followed including engagements at the nation's top nightclubs, acclaim from Time Magazine and three appearances on The Ed Sullivan Show leading up to her show-stopping New York debut at the Plaza Hotel's legendary Persian Room.
Tickets to see Roslyn Kind are $30 and $25. Senior and group discounts are available. Tickets can be purchased by calling (909) 920-4343, by visiting The Grove's box office or by going to the website at http://www.grovetheatre.com.