text:
Flying is going to become more costly and constrained, if the U.S. government persists in efforts to tax business aircraft operators and limit their freedom to operate in the name of security, not to mention FAA actions that are causing more work for everyone.
Writing in the Inside Washington column in the National Air Transportation Association's second-quarter 2012 Aviation Business Journal, Eric Byer, NATA v-p of industry and government affairs, pointed out that government agencies are circumventing the rulemaking process by issuing guidance material that becomes "considered mandatory even though technically it is not."
For a long time, we have worried about the Transportation Security Administration's plans to impose regulations on business aircraft operations. While the TSA claims to have evaluated the security risks posed by general aviation, it has refused to share the tiniest scrap of information with the stakeholders, those who operate aircraft. Without any real information, we are left to assume that the TSA is simply seeking ways to justify growing its bloated bureaucracy by regulating GA security. The TSA keeps promising to issue new proposed regulations on GA security, covering large aircraft operations, so watch out.
The FAA seems to generate its own procedures to over-regulate GA regularly. This appears not only with the guidance material that Byer aptly describes, but also with arbitrary requirements that have no safety benefit. For example, an avionics manufacturer told me of vibration requirements to meet helicopter certification standards. This particular unit has to be able to withstand a vibration so severe that any human occupants in the helicopter would be torn apart. Ummm, OK, so the avionics survived but the pilots were killed? Right.
Another example: the growing proliferation of Letters of Authorization required for operations that any skilled pilot can easily handle. Did you need an LOA to shoot your first ILS approach? Or to fly your jet at extremely high altitudes? Or to land at John F. Kennedy Airport at rush hour? All these LOAs do is increase your costs, add to the FAA's burden (more bureaucracy, please) and do nothing to improve safety.
Now we have the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), which is ignoring decades of rulings and legislation in a reinterpretation of what type of operators pay the so-called "ticket tax."
It is abundantly clear in reading the legislation that created the ticket tax that it applies to commercial flight operations, which means airlines and charter flights. And previous IRS rulings support that claim. Yet in March, the IRS Office of the Chief Counsel issued an internal memo, a Chief Counsel Advice (CCA) document, that justifies applying the ticket tax (Federal Excise Tax or FET) to Part 91 operations, specifically aircraft managed by management companies. As Byer noted, "Although the CCA is not technically able to be used or cited as precedent, it has already widely circulated within the agency and will certainly influence how ongoing and future audits are approached. The general aviation industry has enough to worry about nowadays, let alone an IRS fishing expedition that has legally been repeatedly shot down and is simply a free-time activity for a bunch of pencil pushers."
So what should you do about government over-reaching, not only into your and your owner's wallets but also the abuse of your rights and basic freedoms?
Just say no.
When the IRS says that it wants FET for a private flight by an aircraft owner in his or her airplane on his or her own business, say no. The rules clearly do not require a tax on Part 91 flights.
And when the FAA tries to tell you that guidance in an advisory circular or inspector policy document must be followed, just say no. Rules are rules and must be complied with, but FAA inspectors are not allowed to make up their own rules. Period.
And when the TSA issues the next version of the Large Aircraft Security Program, read the proposed regulations carefully and submit your comments. If the rules don't make sense, that is, they do not specifically improve the security risk posed by GA operations, then say so, loud and clear.
And, added Byer, "I strongly encourage you to take action! Write your members of the U.S. House of Representatives and U.S. Senate." Both NATA and NBAA have handy online tools for contacting your legislators.
We have let our government consolidate too much power and we are allowing agencies to chip away at our freedoms. "I wonder," wrote NATA president James Coyne in a recent President's Letter, "if our founding fathers could even imagine how much regulatory power their limited federal government would one day command."
G.L. Meyer (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 3:38pm
The regulation game has, under this administration, only one purpose, to regulate all non-commercial aircraft operations out of existence. The easiest method to accomplish this end is to raise cost to the point where the advantage of air travel does not over come the debilitating cost. Aircraft sold, government wins.
David Miller (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 3:41pm
If the government has its way, I guess I have to stop flying Angle
Flights too!
Rich Dugger (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 3:56pm
They won't care. Anyone of their kids that need a ride will get one paid for by the lowly serfs. Serfs being us taxpayers.
Bill E. Kuhlmeyer (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 3:44pm
We have let (or have ignored) the Government regulate us do death. I am a Civil Air Patrol Pilot and I fly all kinds of security flights for the USAF. Please do not the Government continue to pass laws that limit GA. The Public needs to know just how much GA does for them. We need to wake them up.
mark Clark (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 3:48pm
the FAA continues to chip away. You mention the internal guidelines the the worker bees in the FAA seem to generate with increasing speed. The Living History Flight program is under attack. The certification and operation of Warbirds is hit with additional requirments and delays based on "studies" in progress. Who is the driving force behind all this?
R0n Draeger (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 3:50pm
Stop the government from taking way the GA flying rights and restrict them from adding extra cost to GA.
Kevin Roll (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 3:50pm
This is a refreshing perspective compared to AOPA's "suck it up and bend over for that TFR" attitude.
Marty Thomas (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 3:51pm
Talk about chipping away at our freedoms!! How about the requirement to fill out the information required in the eAPIS program to leave our own country. I was told by an AOPA represenative that this was for my own safety. Is there a way to get rid of this requirement? I have had Customes and Border Protection check me at the airport before I leave for Mexico. I think they are looking for the guns and money--well so are the Mexicans. Just venting here a little. The Federal Government is just chipping at the margins of freedom. Thank, Marty Thomas
Brett (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 3:51pm
Protest to whom?
There isn't anyone in the government that gives a rats ____ what we (private pilots) think, want, or desire. If anything they would like us all to just "go away" so they would be "safer".
You think pilots, even "connected" pilots have any political pull? One would think that they would live in/around Washington, DC. See how effective they have been in getting rid of the ADIZ? Oh, and the Maryland federal pols, who's own state's aviation business was nearly destroyed ... man did they raise a stink .... NOT!
Connor Vlakancic (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 3:52pm
Vote for a US President candidate that can fly (at least minimum rating) GA One. Not alot of them so should be easy to locate!
Have a nice day :-D
Charles R. "Cha... (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 3:56pm
The basic premise of the article is exactly on point. I agree that the FAA and the TSA, not to mention the IRS and other groups, are regulating GA out of existence and must be stopped. But the answer is not as simple as "just say no". These organizations must be required by those who control them to regulate in a manner which makes sense and which promotes safety without undue cost to the user. Just saying "no" does not force the agencies to adopt a more-effective set of regulations.
What it does is to give those agencies the opportunity to take punitive enforcement action against those who have failed to comply with the rules as published. Unfortunately, this is the typical "default" response at the "in the field" level. The local inspector from the FSDO, or the TSA agent at the field, does not have the authority to deviate from the language of the regulations. He or she is highly unlikely to engage in a discussion of the underlying wisdom of the rule with you. They will write up the violation and let you fight it out in the system. That may be great for me as an aviation attorney, but it is NOT good for GA in general.
What is needed is more intervention by the users of GA, individually and through the organizations which represent us, to draft proposed regulations which we feel will accomplish the reasonable objectives of safety and accountability while keeping expense to a minimum, and then we must gather together in force to insist that our elected representatives pass the revised regulations and that they require that the regulators (who are not elected) actually enforce the regulations in the way they were intended, rather than being undermined through lack of funding, or completely changed by agency "interpretations".
Unfortunately, the most influential spokespeople for GA are the large companies who use corporate aircraft. This is unfortunate because many of these companies do not want to publicly acknowledge that they use corporate aircraft, because they fear the stigma of the "fat cat" using the company jet as his "personal luxury perk." Lately, this has offended politicians, shareholders, and others.
The sad truth is, however, that unless these users come forward and make a clear case to the American people in general, and to the elected officials in particular, for the proper business use of aircraft to achieve legitimate objectives of speed, flexibility, safety, security, privacy, efficiency, etc. in their company operations; GA will die. We can't keep preaching to the choir. Our big companies need to get squarely behind the "No Plane, No Gain" program and tell it to the public, to their shareholders and to their elected representatives over and over and over. Loud and long, until they get the message.
Winston P. Chelf (not verified)
May 25, 2012 - 2:59pm
A large part of one specific problem mentioned, field inspectors relying on guidance materials to regulate, can be directly related to people and organizations not just saying no. When confronted by an overzealous inspector quoting guidance material (or often simply their opinion masquerading as legal interpretation), many pilots, mechanics, and companies simply go along thinking that what is proposed must be legally correct and acceptable. By allowing field inspectors to dictate practices and policies through opinion and guidance we allow them a deference to which they are not entitled.
We always have the right to say that we do not agree with a field inspectors opinion. We are well within our rights to simply ask that a valid legal interpretation be sought from the FAA's Chief Counsel. That legal interpretation, along with relevant case history is the only binding legal opinion that matters. The opinion of a field inspector is simply that, an opinion. Guidance material is also just that, guidance. If you don't believe that, try asking an FAA inspector to stick to exactly what the 8900 says.
The controlling regulation and its interpretation through the Chief Counsel's office or case history is what we must live by and is absolutely the one standard we MUST force the FAA inspectors and field agents to live by.
MOHAMMAD GHOUSE (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 3:59pm
if the govt. does like this, it is problem for us. I feel the it is not good.
Robert Booth (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 4:04pm
The government over regulates the general aviation community because we make it easy for them to do it. We are like low hanging fruit for lawmakers and bureaucrats because the number of pilots is too small.
For example; thousands and thousands of people are killed on the nation's highways each year and there is no public outcry to require initial or recurrent training to hold a drivers license. There is no regulation that drivers must have physical examinations and be of "good moral character". Lawmakers are scared to death to mess with the pubic when it comes to their prized automobiles.
I am afraid that the general aviation community is just too small to fight back successfully. Furthermore, the public is grossly misinformed and removed from the world of aviation. And understandably so, because if you think about it, aviation offers the public nothing more than airline tickets, airshow tickets , overnight packages and flying lessons. The public does not enjoy or feel what we do about flying. When aviation offers the public a way to enjoy what we do, then we will get somewhere with this regulation problem.
William Sullivan (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 4:04pm
Some of the points here are well made, and aircraft operators willing to wrestle with the FAA might indeed have success with polite, but firm resistance to the more obviously wacky LOA's and such. It would be prudent to do some additional research regarding your unique situation (aviation attorney?) before volunteering for that noble endeavor.
That stated, it is a bit disingenuous for Mr. Thurber to cite "our founding fathers" probable objections to this form of federal regulatory power. In 1787, the "founding fathers" were still perplexed as to why birds and insects could fly.
Modern aircraft range from single place ultralights buzzing around at 40mph, to 500+ passenger airliners tickling the underside of Mach 1. There HAS to be significant regulation, or the the entire realm of modern aviation would collapse.
C. David Buchanan (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 4:08pm
Sounds good, but who is willing to raise their voice? Recent Aviation related petitions posted to "WE the People" at Whitehouse.gov received less than 6,000 signatures, resulting in their archival with no answer from the govenment. Such lack of interest on our part speaks much louder than a few blog posts.
Mike Chinea (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 4:09pm
Been saying that for years.
Carl Bolick (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 4:23pm
I totally agree that government agencies are trying to stymie our freedoms. The FAA is no exception.
Case in point, I recently tried to re-register my single engine aircraft in accordance with the FAA registration mandate. My spouse, who was co-owner, vanished without a trace while hiking in the mountains almost five years ago. Fortunately, or so I thought, I have legal power of attorney. My registration application was returned without action because they said the power of attorney was not valid for aircraft registration purposes because it did no contain and expiration date.
Numerous phone calls and explanation to the FAA Registration Branch failed to resolve the problem. Their answer was that this was a congressional mandate. They were sorry to hear about my missing wife but they would not accept a certified true copy of the power of attorney document without the document containing an expiration date.
I am now awaiting until the case involving my missing wife is resolved through probate later in the year. In the meantime, my aircraft is collecting dust because it is not currently registered. Not only that, a party is genuinely interested in purchasing my plane but I am unable to sell because of the registration problem.
If this isn't a veiled attempt to curtail our freedoms under the guise of national security requirements, I don't know what is. For 20 years I served my country as an Air Force officer, including a year in Vietnam. Maybe the bureaucrats believe I suffer from PTSD and pose some sort of threat with my aircraft. Go figure.
Norm Hartz (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 4:24pm
The way to proceed is with elected officials, or appointed ones, that are motivated to PROVE the benefits of ANY regulation or rule, new or otherwise. If the benefits cannot be shown, then it goes into the scrap heap. I would support any candidate for office, including the president, who would promise and follow through that they would go down through all the agencies under their control that they have the power to eliminate and do just that...eliminate them. Period. Maybe enough could be eliminated that we could start over and make sure the money is being well spent and personal freedoms are not being trampled upon. The aviation industry is one of the most heavily regulated ones. New pilot starts are a good example of what regulation does, along with the cost of new airplanes. How many bonanzas were built last year? And Hawker is on the ropes.
I am pretty sure I am preaching to the choir here. The problem far exceeds the foibles of aviation.
Mike Coligny (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 4:26pm
To change a FAR (Federal Aviation Regulations) is a monumental and time consuming task. A methodology was used (first time in FAR 60 Simulators and FTDs) that allowed guidance material to be included in the FAR but not have to go through the full NPRM and review process. The thought was "we could change things quickly and thus keep up with evolving technology". That was its purpose and as stated; it is guidance not regulation. I guess no good deed goes unpunished if I read what has happened correctly.
Winston P. Chelf (not verified)
May 25, 2012 - 3:09pm
Mike, what you have done with FTD's and Sims was truly a good deed!
In the context of the quickly evolving technology in FTDs, which you are a big part of, the intent and the actual practice seem to be at least somewhat aligned. Unfortunately, in the rest of the real world of aviation that practice has seeped over to the point where we live more and more under the rule of guidance (or opinion) rather than actual regulation.
Tony DuBose (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 4:37pm
Absolutely there is too much government regulation in all walks of our life. General Aviation already has challenges brought on by the 2008 Recession and current fuel prices. Additional regulation will only exacerbate the problems the industry faces.
" Just say No to more government regs" Also " No Plane No Gain" !!!
C G Brown (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 4:39pm
Too much regulation, too prone to raise fees / taxes.
Too much paperwork required, such as renewal N numbers, etc.
Not enough done to keep fuel costs down and available.
Too much EPA regulation and power.
Too much influence by the left-wing zealots.
Chad Trautvetter
May 24, 2012 - 4:45pm
This is not just a "left-wing" issue. Instead, this is on BOTH sides of the aisle. After all, the TSA was created by a Republican-controlled Congress and signed into law by a Republican President. The right-wing is certainly not blameless here.
Terry (not verified)
May 29, 2012 - 12:10pm
Sadly the confusion continues. Left wing liberals can be republicans too. Liberals think with their emotions and conservatives uses facts and truth. Liberals need to feel good controlling you for your own good. You can't expect them to go away when they get what they want because they always want more.
Lyle Peterson (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 4:51pm
IBM is credited with creating FUD, Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. This is the premise on which our government is operating. TAS, HSA, FAA, FCC, were all created to answer the public's fear of something terrible happening if we didn't have all these agencies. The emergency locator transmitter was created after one Senator was lost in a plane crash.
Somehow we must reign in Federal Government. They have far overstepped the boundaries set by the Constitution. One way is to fire all the members of Congress. Do not vote for the incumbent. "Not no how, not now way."
A recall might be in order about this time. There are some videos on the internet that claim the process has already started. It most likely won't get further than the resolution.
Congress is not out of control. Congress is controlled by corporate America. Corporate America has bought Congress, lock, stock and barrel. Congress does what big money wants and will not listen to an individual's complaint or problem.
Vote them out!
Alex Kovnat (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 4:53pm
As a member of the Detroit area automotive engineering community, I have been trying to raise peoples' awareness of the automobile slowly being regulated to death for over 30 years. So I can understand what the aviation industry is going through.
Don Thompson (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 5:01pm
America is a population living in fear, especially since 911. GA is a convenient means for Congress to alleviate the American citizen's fear and allow the TSA and FAA to expand their regulatory sphere. They believe they are doing the right thing. 6000 signatures for any national cause are worthless. Until Americans get comfortable with their place in the world, the TSA will grow and GA will shrink or become completely underfunded.
Dave (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 5:09pm
We have way to much government in our life. Time to tell them to hit the road, less government is better.
Rick Scott (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 5:37pm
The FAA and government have over regulated the industry to a point that it has killed market segments. Why is it that most of the light sport aircraft sold in the US are built overseas, and same with the engines in them? We can't afford to design, build, certify or even fly GA aircraft in the US anymore.
Plus we're selling our American businesses to China because they have plently of our money to buy up these aviation companies that are struggling under the government and FAA regulation.
Something seems wrong somewhere.
Bob Scott (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 5:40pm
Private Pilots don't have deep pockets. If this administration really wants to aid the middle economic sector of this country, then forget trying to bleed private pilots to death.
Terry (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 5:41pm
If the present guy stays in, GA is screwed, since we're all in the rich
1 percenters. The pilot unable to register his aircraft since his late
wife obviously can't sign should sign for her. The FAA person in charge
Of paperwork could give a crap as long as she has "signed " it. Feel
Your pain, spent 20 years chasing Commies ... Now I'm almost one!!!
Michael Squadrille (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 5:54pm
Pilot groups such as AOPA & EAA are the voice of General Aviation. Much greater effort needs to be placed on educating the media and the public at large at what exactly General Aviation means. The vast majority of our population and so-called Government Officials have little or no clue that General Aviation means more than Recreational, Light Sport Aircraft & Private pilots. The Civil Air Patrol, Law Enforcement Air Wings, Medevac operations, volunteer groups such as Angel Flight, etc are all active members of General Aviation - to name just a few. The missions involve far more than "punching holes in the sky or the $100 ($200) hamburgers ! We need to educate the public & Congress ... and now before losing all of our hard-earned privileges !
Richard Barrett (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 6:25pm
The way to say NO is to become proactive. Instead of complaining, support your conservative candidates. Give $$ to the SCF and or Tea Party. VOTE against any politician that has been for big government. Democrat or Republican.
Get the bureaucrats off our backs..
John (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 6:40pm
Regulation is totally out of hand. Who knows better than the pilot in command as to what his mental and physical state is with regard to his planned flight in his own aircraft? Stop the bureaucrats before there is nothing left to obstruct. Give us a venue to voice our objections and we will!
Ben (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 6:53pm
The FAA may seem to have a sharp blade slashing away at GA, well, beause that is in fact what is happening. The alphabet organizations that exist to protect GA have fallen in line with FAA schemes way too often, generally when they think it benefits their "segment" of GA. So sad when they're wrong. The key is incrementalism. Few of us are left that remember what it was like 25 years ago, and fewer still are ready to admit (including those alphabet organizations) that saftety hasn't improved in a (legitimately) measurable way. Matt's advice is solid - use your brain, read the regulations, and comply with what is actually required, and with what makes sense. Don't simply assume because "everyone knows" that it is true. The FAA has more than once issued "guidance" that directly contradicts the rules. Don't blame the examiner, inspector, or ground school instructor that repeats the FAA "guidance", just use your own head and eyes, if you've still got them.
And read proposed rules before they're done, and make suggestions. The law requires the FAA to follow a process which is intended to provide an open process, with public oversight. When they issue ACs, interpretations and policy leters that contradict the rules, they're circumventing the legal process, which is technically a crime. When the aviation users don't participate in the oversight process when it is followed, that's sad, and absolutely a shame.
But the FAA sword can cut back. Look at the FAA budget, at the number of people employed by the agency. Then loook at how may US Flag air carriers there are, and how many airplanes, pilots and mechanics they employ. There is no way to justify the FAA budget if GA is gone. Air carrier volume alone doesn't justify it. In the past, FAA leadership recognized this, and often reversed course and became GA promoters (at least in public). It might happen again...but only if we make ourselves known, loud and clear.
Good article Matt, keep up the good work!
Guy Blood (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 7:24pm
One of the regulations that is, in my opinion, useless is the Biannual Flight Review. How did we ever let this requirement get approved?
If I fly my own aircraft, I don't need this review. If I rent one, the owners require a check ride. Again, no need for another review.
Let's get rid of this inappropriate rule, and save money and time.
Jeff Pierce (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 8:26pm
As a co-founder of Freedom To Travel USA (http://fttusa.org), I have been tracking the abusive and illegal TSA tactics where the government asserts the right to strip search innocent Americans and touch our genitals - all over non-existent risks and very improbable events.
I would challenge Mr. Thurber and others in GA to figure out how to join us - whether through official contacts in your organizations or those who have influence with pilots organizations.
We just did a Congressional briefing this week on how the TSA wastes our money - using reasoned, mathematical arguments - and I know that GA is being squeezed more and more for "security" reasons and the TSA is trying to force changes at the smaller airports where much of GA occurs.
I would suggest those who really want to help protect their rights join with us at http://fttusa.org and there is contact information at the site. We are looking to build a coalition of those who want to travel freely in order to make the Presidential Candidates accountable for their views. The TSA does influence FAA actions, and I can share with you the TSA uses rules, intended for the FAA, to avoid basic lawsuits over TSA intrusions on passengers.
The common theme is that our country is being scared into submission over nearly non-existent threats.
We would look forward to innovative and concrete connections with the pilot and airport communities. I wish I could say the major airlines care, but their extreme silence and lucky benefit of having no legal responsibility for security makes them unlikely partners. And, major airports don't seem to care either as they get federal funding which they don't mind....
Lloyd Emberland (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 8:26pm
The problem as I see it, is that there is very little oversight on the actions of the FAA and other agencies. Sure, they have 60 day comment periods before making a decision but that is to make us feel we have some input. What ever happened to common sense entering the equation? Their thinking is that given enough regulation, they can eliminate accidents. These useless government regulations are killing the human spirit and creativeness that this country was built on. We certainly don't want to go the way of Europe where flying is almost regulated out of existance.
phil (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 8:59pm
Solution..... vote them aLL OUT... if that fails ... I will not comply.. enough freedom bashing. Aviation is America... Not run by dictators...
Bob (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 9:25pm
We are still required to find the obscure sources for the batteries when half their shelf life is up, but the other party (FAA) has not held up their part of the bargain: Nobody is listening anymore if they do go off! No satellites any more,just an appeal to pilots with time on their hands to monitor.
Other options exist that are better: now we have cell phones and their are subscriptions one can get with a special transmitter that sends a signal to a satellite and anyone with access can track the aircraft. It's called a SPOT.
Remember this, if your battery is past the date, your aircraft is in violation of an FAR and therefore unairworthy. It doesn't matter wheither it works or not!
steve (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 9:36pm
The area of regulation is one in which I feel that our major flying organizations (namely AOPA and EAA) do not adequatly confront the powers that be on behalf of its members. Other organizations such as NRA should serve as an example of an organization that actively fight for its members rights. TFR's are an example of rules that have gotten out of hand. The govt usurps our airspace at its whim. This should only happen in a national emergency and not as a matter of routine as seems to be the norm. Our organizations need to step up to the plate
Alfred L. (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 9:52pm
I am in health care and have had a love for general aviation forever.....health care is in the process of strangulation by over regulation in the interest of "safety" as is aviation, my other favorite interest. The governing entities must eventually face the reality..................once you kill all of the dogs, you no longer need the dog catcher.
Benjamin B. (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 11:03pm
If pilots would be allowed to rely on common sense and not regulations aviation would be much safer. The problem is that as pilots we have learned to depend on the government to tell us what is safe and what is not via regulations. We don't need a bunch of legislators telling us how to fly our airplanes! There is absolutely no reason the FARs need to be four inches thick just to keep us safe.
Stephen Bogdan (not verified)
May 24, 2012 - 11:28pm
What are the respective States doing to repudiate unconstitutional federal encroachment of our freedom to fly?
William Robertson (not verified)
May 25, 2012 - 8:20am
We are exiting a housing bubble and moving into a government bubble. This will be the final stand by the criminal elite to take away put freedoms before the mathimatically inevitable collapse of the Dollar. The only thing we need to do is refuse to participate and walk away from this paradigm if it doesn't resonate with you. It will implode on its own. Buy silver, guns, and dry goods because it's going to be a tough road, hopefully we can steer clear of tyranny.
"First they ignore you, then they mock you, then they fight you, then you win." Mahatma Ghandi
River Bend Aero... (not verified)
May 25, 2012 - 8:24am
Maybe in protest we could contact American Air Campers and organize a camping trip to a major airport! That worked so well for the liberals on Wall Street, of course most pilots dream of having a place on a residential airpark! Some might never leave! Ha! Flyincampground.com
Jim Densmore (not verified)
May 25, 2012 - 8:53am
You know why it's hard to keep up don't you? It's because regulation is the FAA's Day Job. It's what they do. Only a dramatic reduction in their size can make a real dent in the fundamental issue.
HR Jacobs (not verified)
May 25, 2012 - 10:27am
When I started to fly over 40 years ago there was too much regulation. The FARs were a small book. Now it is a book larger than the New York City yellow pages. The government workers have nothing else to do but make rules and regs. I understand there is now one FAA employee for every three GA airplanes!! Time to fire over half of all government employees. Let the unemployment rate go way up and cut the government in half and let us have our freedom and money to spend as we see fit.
9/11 was a serious attack but in perspective we lost 3000 of 300 million. We lost two buildings of more millions. Hardly reason to imprison the 300 million. Close the TSA, fire half of all state, city and federal employees and put them to work building America, not destroying it.
Bryan Jones (not verified)
May 25, 2012 - 11:59am
For once AOPA is advocating resistance to this government over reach. Its is way past time the bobble heads recognized how regulation is destroying our very way of life. AOPA is a wonderful organization but it is heavily influenced by misguided politically correct notions that erode individual freedom. For me and other pilots, freedom is the reason we fly. To go where and when I choose unfettered by government intrusion is the ultimate statement of freedom. But like many of our freedoms, it is being incrementally destroyed by self appointed do gooders and bureaucrats.


text:
"All of my teachings can be put in a single sentence. Nothing is to be clung to as I, me, or mine."
When I Google it, I find 4,220 results with the exact sentence. I am almost sure this is a fake Buddha quote, but still would like to confirm if there is (or is not) really any sutta where the Buddha said this (especially the bold part above). I would appreciate your input.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Thankyou for posting. I, for one, am glad to have you here.Indrajala wrote:I'm much more active over at Dharma Wheel, but once in awhile I check in here as well.
I'm 27, Canadian and have been practising and studying Buddhadhamma since I was 18 or 19.
I have a MA degree in Buddhist Studies from Japan. My main area of study has been classical East Asian Buddhism, though I've been reading Indian and more Eurasian history a lot as of late.
At the moment I'm in India, but I've lived in Japan, Taiwan and to some extent Kathmandu. I like to wander and own nothing more than a backpack of stuff.
I also like to read and write. I have a lot of my writings stored here:
In the future I hope to travel to many more places and hopefully do some long-term retreat.
tiltbillings wrote:Thankyou for posting. I, for one, am glad to have you here.Indrajala wrote:.....
Nan Tien Institute wrote:Nan Tien Institute (NTI), located on Australia's picturesque South Coast of NSW, just south of Sydney, is the country's first Institute of higher learning grounded in Buddhist wisdom and values.
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Environmental Ignorance Is Economic Bliss
by Philip Barnes [http://steadystate.org/environmental-ignorance-is-economic-bliss/]
Despite the overwhelming scientific evidence that economic activity is exceeding environmental limits and destabilizing both global and local ecosystems, demonstrably flawed pro-growth economic theory continues to be touted as the cure to our ailments. Could the collective of practicing economists, policy-makers, economics professors, and economics students all be suffering from something akin to the Dunning-Kruger Effect? As a community, are these individuals so unknowledgeable about the environmental consequences of pro-growth economic activity that they tend to systematically overestimate the discipline's environmental performance?
So if you want to find a representative sample of courses being offered in the leading economics departments, looking at the US News and World Report cream of the crop is a useful approach. … For the 2012-2013 academic year in all ten of these departments, only one single course presented alternative economic theories through alternative learning methods. The one-off course entitled "Buddhist Economics" was a seven-week-long sophomore seminar at UC Berkeley taught by Dr. Clair Brown. Eight students enrolled. …
Yet Dr. Brown's course was the exception rather than the rule … in introductory courses for micro and macroeconomics, ecologically-minded economic theory and knowledge is woefully absent. This claim is supported by a recently published paper [http://viableeconomics.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/IJPEE030205-GREEN.pdf] in which the author, Tom Green, reviewed the most popular introductory level economics textbooks and found that the causal relationship between economic activity and environmental consequence was either systematically ignored or underrepresented.
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Today's post was written by BNSF Chief Information Officer, Jo-ann Olsovsky.
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lyndon taylor wrote:I've tried reading this account it seems highly biased, almost made up, all you've proven is some monks in the country in Sri Lanka either don't trust or know a lot about western medicine.
lyndon taylor wrote:Almost made up
alan wrote:Examples of malicious intent?
BlackBird wrote:Emphasis on challenging the allegations themselves rather than the bias/intentions of the author, furthermore I have added that the book itself is vitriolic and highly critical, yet the serious claims leveled against some monks are nevertheless worthy of investigation to ascertain whether there is any truth to the matter.
alan wrote:Huh? Not sure I'm on your wavelength.
binocular wrote:/.../
Thanissaro Bhikkhu, Adult Dhamma
Thanissaro Bhikkhu wrote:When he taught his young son, Rahula, about truthfulness, the teaching was also pretty harsh. If you feel no shame in telling a lie, he said, your goodness is empty. It's thrown away. You can't be trusted. Then he taught Rahula to apply truthfulness in looking at his actions, to learn from his actions. That is basically what it means to become an adult.
"It is useless to practice in Pā-Auk, since Sayādaw cannot read my mind. He just gave me the instructions according to what I provide, even when I was lying."
"Gotami, the qualities of which you may know, 'These qualities lead to passion, not to dispassion; to being fettered, not to being unfettered; to accumulating, not to shedding; to self-aggrandizement, not to modesty; to discontent, not to contentment; to entanglement, not to seclusion; to laziness, not to aroused persistence; to being burdensome, not to being unburdensome': You may categorically hold, 'This is not the Dhamma, this is not the Vinaya, this is not the Teacher's instruction.'
Dan74 wrote:alan wrote:Huh? Not sure I'm on your wavelength.
I am just saying, how do we know what's in this account is true? I would be careful not to spread slander against the Sangha until checking it out.
Dan74 wrote:Hi Jack. I didn't say that you were spreading slander, I don't know. But you are risking it but putting this out without first ascertaining the facts.
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A very good piece by Wells in today's paper about how Frank is adjusting his practice times and using tape sessions.
Interesting that Foster re-injured the back during Bulls game. I really wonder how much time Jeff can put in. I think we are going to have to see Amundson soon, I just can't see him sticking with a three man rotation for to long in this shortened season.
Indiana Pacers coach Frank Vogel would like to practice for four hours on off days because he enjoys teaching basketball. But he knows putting his team through grueling practice sessions wouldn't be in the Pacers' best interest during a jam-packed 66-game season.
"I recognize you can't do that so we have to do just the best we can," Vogel said.
Practice time will be hard to come by during the first month of the season for the Pacers, who play at Toronto tonight.
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The Pacers on Tuesday talked about needing to improve on both ends of the court after the previous night's victory over the Detroit Pistons.
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The Pacers play 15 of their next 21 games on the road.
"Day-by-day we'll just get a feel for what our guys can handle and whether it's going to be productive or counterproductive," Vogel said. "You really have to make daily decisions on that."
The Pacers want to use practice time to help newcomers David West and George Hill get comfortable playing with their teammates and work on their offensive chemistry.
They beat the Pistons, who are expected to struggle this season, by defending and rebounding well.
"You have to do it up top mentally when there's not a lot of practice time," West said. "We have to think about the good things (we did against Detroit), think about the bad things and we have to be looking to improve. If we continue to be unselfish and play together, the sky is the limit for this group."
Vogel will use film sessions as a teaching tool without taking the court.
"We have to really concentrate in film sessions," small forward Danny Granger said. "Sometimes that's tough with younger teams, but we know that's our next challenge, getting better without killing our legs. I've talked to players on teams that win every year and they have a lot more off time because they understand the game more and don't have to practice as much."
Foster stays behind
Veteran Jeff Foster (back) did not travel to Toronto so he could meet with Dan Dyrek, the team's physical therapist consultant. Foster, who has a history of back problems, re-injured it during the Dec. 20 preseason game at Chicago. He hopes to return to the lineup next week when the Pacers are on a four-game trip.
Call Star reporter Mike Wells at (317) 444-6053.


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Moderator: mikenz66
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Sherab,
You'll note the sutta extract you provide says "in accordance with the Dhamma"...
retrofuturist wrote:To wit, I think when people project god-like omniscience onto the Buddha, they do so without an appreciation for the qualifications the Buddha gave on that which could be directly known.
Sherab wrote:Of course. But what does it mean? The Buddha couldn't be referring to those who subscribe to his Dhamma. If he did, he was merely preaching to the converted. If he was referring to those recluse etc. who don't subscribe to his Dhamma, then the Buddha was merely setting up the playing field to ensure that he could not lose. Do you think the Buddha intended this?
retrofuturist wrote:The Sabba Sutta is such an instance of the Buddha rephrasing a term "sabba" (all) used by other religionists so that it accorded with Dhamma.
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Kirk,
Interesting thoughts.
Regarding "consciousness without feature", could this be intellect without object?
kirk5a wrote:As regards this sutta "The All" all I know is that the Buddha did talk about this "consciousness without feature" a little bit here and there, and so it would seem to present a difficulty in interpreting "The All" as meaning - there is nothing else besides the 6 sense and their objects. Or so it seems to me, but I'm always open to having misunderstood
Wouldn't that fit with what Sariputta says in the Kotthita Sutta?
[Maha Kotthita:] "With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media, is it the case that there is not anything else?"
[Sariputta:] "Don't say that, my friend."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
The statement, 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media [vision, hearing, smell, taste, touch, & intellection] is it the case that there is anything else?' objectifies non-objectification. The statement, '... is it the case that there is not anything else ... is it the case that there both is & is not anything else ... is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectifies non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes. However far objectification goes, that is how far the six contact media go. With the remainderless fading & stopping of the six contact-media, there comes to be the stopping, the allaying of objectification.
kirk5a wrote:Sounds good beeblebrox (are u related to Zaphod?)
So then what's the right way to read this sutta "The All" as you see it? Which of my 3 earlier interpretations? Or another one.
kirk5a wrote:So is this sutta saying
1) "there isn't anything other than the six senses and their objects" ?
2) "it isn't possible to experience anything other than the six senses and their objects" ?
3) It isn't possible to describe anything beyond the six senses and their objects?
Just reading it as literally as possible, I see it saying #3, not the former. And if it is saying the former, then how does it not run head on into "consciousness without feature" and/or nibbana? I mean, he certainly wasn't saying the six senses and their objects are eternal. And surely he wasn't saying it's not possible to experience "consciousness without feature" and/or nibbana.
beeblebrox wrote:
And then it occurred to me: it's really none of the above... and not even this, since this would be objectifying too. The mind boggles... truly.
kirk5a wrote:So then, what might be the practical application of this sutta for us mere mortals? Does it help our practice somehow? Or is it just another thing to put on the "mind boggling" shelf sigh... lol
kirk5a wrote:So then, what might be the practical application of this sutta for us mere mortals? Does it help our practice somehow? Or is it just another thing to put on the "mind boggling" shelf sigh... lol
The Buddha responds (SN IV 15):Klaus Klostermaier's A SURVEY OF HINDUISM, pgs: 137-8 wrote:"In the Brhadaranyaka Upanisad we read a dialogue in which Yajnavalkya is asked the crucial question: Kati devah, how many are the devas [gods]? His [Yajnavalkya's] first answer is a quotation from a Vedic text:
'Three hundred and three and three thousand and three." Pressed on, he reduces the number first to thirty-three, then to six, then to three, to two, to one-and-a-half and finally to One.
'Which is the one deva [god]?' And he answers: "The prana (breath, life). The Brahman. He is called tyat(that).' Though the devas still figure in sacrificial practice and religious debate, the question 'Who is God?' is here answered in terms that has remained the Hindu answer ever since.
10. Verily, in the beginning this world was Brahman. It knew only itself (atmanam): "I am Brahman!" Therefore it became the All. Whoever of the gods became awakened to this, he indeed became it; likewise in the case of seers (rsi), likewise in the case of men. Seeing this, indeed, the seer Vamadeva began:-
I was Manu and the sun (surya)!
This is so now also. Whoever thus knows "I am Brahman!" becomes this All; even the gods have not power to prevent his becoming thus, for he becomes their self (atman).
So whoever worships another divinity [than his Self], thinking "He is one and I another," he knows not. He is like a sacrificial animal for the gods. Verily, indeed, as many animals would be of service to a man, even so each single person is of service to the gods. If even one animal is taken away, it is not pleasant. What, then, if many? Therefore it is not pleasing to those [gods] that men should know this.
11. Verily, in the beginning this world was Brahman, one only. [ -- Brhadaranyaka Upanisad 1.4.10-11 trans R.C. Zaehner Hindu Scriptures pgs 40-1]
kirk5a wrote:What is the Pali word that is being translated as "mind" by Ireland and "intellect" by Thanissaro? Thanks.
It's not.kirk5a wrote:Thanks. Ok help me understand this please. I'm working my way through "Samana - Luangta Maha Boowa" (awesome) and in it he says
"I understood clearly that nothing dies. The mind certainly doesn't die; in
fact, it becomes more pronounced. The more fully we investigate the four elements,
breaking them down into their original properties, the more distinctly
pronounced the mind appears. So where is death to be found? And what is it
that dies? The four elements – earth, water, wind and fire – they don't die. As
for the mind, how can it die? It becomes more conspicuous, more aware and
more insightful. The mind's awareness never dies, so why is it so afraid of death?
Because it deceives itself. For eons and eons, it has fooled itself into believing
in death when actually nothing ever dies."
So which part of "the all" is this "mind's awareness" which never dies?
tiltbillings wrote:It's not.kirk5a wrote:
So which part of "the all" is this "mind's awareness" which never dies?
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Want to get a quick exposure to the challenges facing animal agriculture and the allied industries of farming and food processing?
Sit in on a local community college class on nutrition or food systems, as I did yesterday, and listen to the comments from the students in attendance.
The class I attended is called Sustainable Food Systems, and the highlight of the day was a screening of the film "FRESH," a documentary that basically follows the same script—and features many of the same cast of characters—as "Food Inc." For those who haven't seen either documentary, the basic message is as follows:
- "Industrial" farming has created a host of problems, from ecological damage to loss of diversity to depopulation of rural America.
- Commercial livestock production is detrimental to animal welfare, environmental preservation and human health and well-being.
- Federal farm subsidies have resulted in an explosion of "cheap" food that is non-nutritious, unsustainable and the cause of most sickness and disease.
If you've spent more than five minutes listening to consumer advocates or animal rights activists deliver their screed, you've heard these complaints before. They're not new.
The film featured carefully edited scenes of hens scrambling across a sunlit field, of cattle grazing in a meadow lush with springtime clover and a litter of piglets "running free" inside a dirt-floored pen, as an airy, upbeat orchestral score swelled in the background. In contrast, the scenes of conventional farming and livestock handling were deliberately framed to look as bleak and barren as possible, with a soundtrack consisting of bleating animals layered over the growl of diesel engines.
What was far more interesting than listening to the likes of Joel "The Huckster" Salatin and Michael "My Ego Couldn't Fit Inside Grand Central Station" Pollan ramble on about the horrors of modern agriculture, however, were the comments made by students during the discussion period following the screening.
A seminar in ignorance
Of course, the two instructors conducting the class were 100 percent sold on the notion that conventional farming, confinement housing and vertically integrated food production are all spawn of Satan. They railed against fast-food chains, condemned supermarkets and kept up a steady drumbeat of rhetorical questions meant to solicit comments, such as "Why don't they just ban antibiotics in agriculture?"
Asked what they considered the most disturbing image in the film, the consensus was a surprising one. Quite a few of the students (especially women) said they were "revolted" by a scene showing poultry workers spilling a tray full of young broiler chicks onto the sawdust-strewn floor of a growout barn. Yes, it was a little rough—although none of the chicks were injured—but it's tough to imagine that any of the students would perform all that differently if they had several dozen trays to unload.
As the class shared its reaction to the issues discussed in FRESH, the comments were eye-opening:
- "I can't believe the amount of manure that came from that one (hog) farm."
- "Farmers using all those antibiotics just creates mega-viruses that get stronger and stronger."
- "If everyone just bought organic food, then the price would come down to where it's the same as regular food."
- "It's wrong that chicken companies have a total monopoly on making farmers raise chickens."
- "The big companies all have so much control over Congress that they never get any pushback when they want to change the laws."
- "I saw this restaurant where they had meat in a bag and they boiled it. It was gross."
- "I have a friend who works at Burger King and she told me they keep the grease they use on fries from a month at a time."
- "If people stopped eating fast-food, that would put an end to cramming cattle into feedlots."
- "After that movie, I can never eat another egg from a supermarket—ever."
From confusing monopolies with vertical integration to thinking antibiotics affect viruses to assuming that fed cattle end up as fast-food burgers—and knocking sous vide, one of the most benign methods of food preparation—most of the class were truly clueless about our food production, processing and marketing systems in this country. When it comes to how food is produced and processed, the ignorance that abounds among the younger generation(s) is astounding.
But I guarantee that virtually all of them left that classroom feeling "enlightened" about both their politics and their perceptions about the American food system. Many of them will be wolfing down pizzas and burgers later that day, and despite the fact that they're in college to learn, few—if any—will bother researching further the platitudes so blithely tossed out by Pollan, Salatin and others in the film.
The idea that by simply nodding our heads and smugly lining up behind "alternative" producers, consumers can flip a switch and drastically shift the dynamics of food production, without regard for labor costs (and availability), land use, access to capital and marketing constraints is the height of delusion.
Don't get me wrong: I agree with a lot of the ideas spotlighted in FRESH. We need to address the loss of agricultural diversity. We need to expand alternative markets and niche products if the next generation of farmers is to gain access to the profession. And we certainly need to restructure federal farm support to promote those goals, instead of focusing almost exclusively on commodity crops.
But if a college education is supposed to turn adolescents into intelligent, perceptive adults capable of understanding of complex issues beyond mere platitudes and talking points, the class session I attended would have to be graded F.
The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Dan Murphy, a veteran food-industry journalist and commentator.


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Can anyone out there recommend me a good home office printer. There are so many out there I do not know where to start. We need one that prints four colours, as quickly as possible and reliably. Mainly needed for sales presentations and proposal documents - so quality important. Preferably nice and small too. Also interested in what people think about the lazer v ink jet arguments.
Any views?
HP have always seemed relieable to me, I use their Office Jet 6110 and this is a multi function device, with scanner (both sheet and page) copying printing as well as fax if required.
I still have a very old Desk Jet 720C that still works well when required.
However for fast page printing and quality you can't beat a laser but colour lasers are expensive
Having a HP Deskjet 720C for a number of years, its fine for low volume printing. And as has already been mentioned the cost of ink refills is very high (apparently more expensive for printer ink than it is for Champagne!)
I think my next purchase would have to be a laser. As for which model, who knows :)
I have been using an Epson Stylus 740 for a few years now. Reliable and reasonable quality. For business I have printed off colour slides and these have been professional and acceptable. Hope this helps. This is not a plug but I am about to upgrade my machine to an HP fax,scanner, copier printer as my new home machine does not support W98 scanner.
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Jogging is a wonderful exercise that doesn't really cost anything except a decent pair or running shoes. No need for gym membership fee and you can do it wherever and whenever you want.
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings all,'
I was interested in starting a discussion topic on jogging.
I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to jogging. I've never really jogged before, and any attempts to jog as a teenager seem to have resulted in me being swiftly out of breath and struggling to complete a single lap. However, over the last few days I've started giving it a go again, and have pleasantly surprised myself with how I've gone.
Yesterday's 11.8 km run (7.33 miles), combined with how my knees feel today, have prompted me to actually get some running shoes. Arguably that's probably something I should have done before deciding to run that far! As I said - noob.
Being a noob, I'm keen to get any general or specific advice that anyone here has picked up in the art of jogging, so that I can do it properly and not stuff myself up in the process - so feel free to share!
Legs/Stride While sprinters need to lift their knees high to achieve maximum leg power, distance runners don't need such an exaggerated knee lift--it's simply too hard to sustain for any length of time. Instead, efficient endurance running requires just a slight knee lift, a quick leg turnover, and a short stride. Together, these will facilitate fluid forward movement instead of diverting (and wasting) energy. When running with the proper stride length, your feet should land directly underneath your body. As your foot strikes the ground, your knee should be slightly flexed so that it can bend naturally on impact. If your lower leg (below the knee) extends out in front of your body, your stride is too long.
Ben wrote:I don't recommend jogging - the health benefits aren't worth the damage running does to one's body.
I can't run anymore as a result of damage to my knees.
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Who doesn't love watching a parade during the holidays? All of the parade floats in Fayette, Missouri go by as the crowd cheers with excitement. Each one is unique and full of fun characters and interesting features that are tailored to the company or organization that it is representing. What some people might not know about parades is how much hard work and effort goes into all of the floats that are in them though. Each parade float in Fayette, Missouri takes many hours of continuous work by highly skilled professional float decorators to get all of its features perfect. That is because there are so many people watching. It is sad to say, but an ugly float is going to get noticed by everyone. And who wants to be the one waving from the ugly float in a parade? That is why it is essential that anyone who is planning to have a float in a national or local parade get some help from a company who knows everything that there is to know about floats. Parade Float Stuff has been the leading company for designing floats and selling parade float supplies in Fayette, Missouri since 1936. Read on to find out more about all that we have to offer.
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forestmat wrote:I wish Mitsuo well - but can't help thinking he looks a bit sad in these photos
It is not surprising that due to the joint kamma and determination made together through many lifetime, we can easily meet our spiritual partner again in our lives striving as a monk or nun. When one meet one's long time spiritual partner, the strong bond and attraction held through many lifetimes become very hard to break. The kammic bond of reuniting with one's long time spiritual partner is very different from the usual association with laypeople- of which is not much of an issue to a seasoned practioner who follows the Vinaya and applying asubha practices. And usually, the monk or nun who have been adept at meditation practice will recognize his /her own spiritual partner when it comes to meeting back with the person.
I have seen a few cases whereby monks (some well known) who have been practicing for decades, and teaching laypeople and meditation for years get stuck when they are presented with this challenge. Often, this issue is not really addressed openly even among the monastic community and therefore the practioner who is encountering this issue finds it hard to deal with because it is a totally new level.
In this article, I have compiled some sources relating to advice by past Ajahns on this issue.
http://thaiforesttradition.blogspot.com ... ships.html
Lovestruck man nabbed for kidnap of 'wife from three previous lives'
The engineer said three soothsayer monks agreed he and the doctor were bound by destiny.
They assured him Dr. Pen-ampai was a reincarnation of his wife in his previous three lives. She had committed suicide because he had cheated on her in the last one, he said.
He said he was not mentally ill and regretted causing her any trouble. ...
forestmat wrote:Really none of my business, but seems pretty quick to me to get married only days (20 to be precise) after having been a monk for 38 Pansaa.
The woman who revealed on her Facebook page she is the person closest to former Phra Mitsuo, whose real name is Mitsuo Shibahashi, is Suttirat Muttamara, 52. She is a sister of Democrat MP Vithayen Muttamara and also chairwoman of Q Medical Centre Co which in 2011 announced the investment of up to one billion baht to build a hospital to combat the ageing process.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/learning/lea ... ok-reveals
I think this important to whoever reads this story and gets doubts - that he was a bit controversial even before leavingThat is why he was so popular with laypeople, but not with monks.
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24 May 2015 Last updated at 02:38:39
By YouShopping EAN Products Codes Directory, New World Cookers & Ovens
The EAN 5052263016316 (European Article Number), is part of New World Cookers & Ovens product range. The EAN code product name is New World NW601F Fanned Electric Built In Single Oven Metallic Green. Ovens...
Brand: New World
Category: Cookers & Ovens
These are the main details for 5052263016316 ean code:
|New World NW601F Fanned Electric Built In Single Oven Metallic Green
|Model Number:
|Not Available
|New World
|Cookers & Ovens
|Product Range:
|New World Cookers & Ovens
|Latest Price:
|Last Updated:
|2015-05-24 15:42:47
|First Created:
|2015-05-24 15:42:47
Table 1: This table shows the 5052263016316 product details, including product name, ean code, model number (if available), brand/manufacturer name, category name, product range and latest retrieved price. These details have been updated on 2015-05-24 15:42:47 and where first added to the database on 2015-05-24 15:42:47. Prices listed on this page are subject to change.
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Seller: BHS Direct
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List 2: This list shows the different ean code 5052263016316 product name variations found on websites selling this product online.
Product images with EAN 5052263016316 indexed from online sellers websites:
Credits: BHS Direct website
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Take a deep breath. Fresh air is constantly coming in through air scoops on the side of the Dreamliner. The cabin air continuously circulates through an advanced filtration system to make the cabin air even cleaner.
On long flights, you will find the Boeing 787 Dreamliner cabin is less dry. More moisture in the air will help your skin, your eyes, your lips, and your nose feel more comfortable.
In the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, you will feel like you are cruising at a lower altitude than on other airplanes and getting more oxygen. More oxygen, fewer headaches, less dizziness equals less travel fatigue.
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Whether in Business or Economy Class, passengers on the Boeing B787 Dreamliner benefit from the Dreamliner's dramatically improved cabin pressure, air quality and smoother handling.