text:
Rental Market is in Rude Health
Daft Reports
- Ronan Lyons (House Price, Q2 2017)
- Ronan Lyons (Rental, Q1 2017)
- Ronan Lyons (House Price, Q1 2017)
- Ronan Lyons (Rental, Q4 2016)
- Ronan Lyons (House Price, Q4 2016)
- Ronan Lyons (Rental, Q3 2016)
- Ronan Lyons (House Price, Q3 2016)
- Ronan Lyons (School Report, 2016)
- Conor Viscardi (Rental, Q2 2016)
- Ronan Lyons (Rail Report, 2016)
- Ronan Lyons (House Price, Q2 2016)
- Ronan Lyons (Rental, Q1 2016)
- Ronan Lyons (House Price, Q1 2016)
- Ronan Lyons (Rental, Q4 2015)
- Ronan Lyons (House Price, Q4 2015)
- Ronan Lyons (Rental, Q3 2015)
- Ronan Lyons (House Price, Q3 2015)
- Marcus O'Halloran (Rental, Q2 2015)
- Ronan Lyons (House Price, Q2 2015)
- Ronan Lyons (Rental, Q1 2015)
- Ronan Lyons (House Price, Q1 2015)
- Ronan Lyons (Rental, Q4 2014)
- Ronan Lyons (House Price, Q4 2014)
- Ronan Lyons (Rental, Q3 2014)
- Ronan Lyons (House Price, Q3 2014)
- Domhnall McGlacken-Byrne (Rental, Q2 2014)
- Ronan Lyons (House Price, Q2 2014)
- Ronan Lyons (Rental, Q1 2014)
- Ronan Lyons (House Price, Q1 2014)
- Ronan Lyons (Rental, Q4 2013)
- Ronan Lyons (House Price, Q4 2013)
- Ronan Lyons (Rental, Q3 2013)
- Ronan Lyons (House Price, Q3 2013)
- Ronan Lyons (Rental, Q2 2013)
- Ronan Lyons (House Price, Q2 2013)
- Ronan Lyons (Rental, Q1 2013)
- Ronan Lyons (House Price, Q1 2013)
- Ronan Lyons (Rental, Q4 2012)
- Ronan Lyons (House Price, Q4 2012)
- Lorcan Sirr (Rental, Q3 2012)
- Padraic Kenna (House Price, Q3 2012)
- John Logue (Rental, Q2 2012)
- Ronan Lyons (House Price, Q2 2012)
- Barry O'Leary (Rental, Q1 2012)
- Seamus Coffey (House Price, Q1 2012)
- Joan Burton (Rental, Q4 2011)
- Ronan Lyons (House Price, Q4 2011)
- Philip O'Sullivan (Rental, Q3 2011)
- Sheila O'Flanagan (House Price, Q3 2011)
- Rachel Breslin (Rental, Q2 2011)
- Constantin Gurdgiev (House Price, Q2 2011)
- Cormac Lucey (Rental, Q1 2011)
- Eoin Fahy (House Price, Q1 2011)
- Lorcan Roche Kelly (Rental, Q4 2010)
- Ronan Lyons (House Price, Q4 2010)
- John Fitzgerald (Rental, Q3 2010)
- Patrick Koucheravy (House Price, Q3 2010)
- Gary Redmond (Rental, Q2 2010)
- Jim Power (House Price, Q2 2010)
- Jill Kerby (Rental, Q1 2010)
- Brian Lucey (House Price, Q1 2010)
- Michael Taft (Rental, Q4 2009)
- Alan McQuaid (House Price, Q4 2009)
- Dr. Charles J. Larkin (Rental, Q3 2009)
- Emer O'Siochru (House Price, Q3 2009)
- Ronan Lyons (Rental, Q2 2009)
- Oliver Gilvarry (House Price, Q2 2009)
- Brian Devine (Rental, Q1 2009)
- Dr. Liam Delaney (House Price, Q1 2009)
- Gerard O'Neill (Rental, Q4 2008)
- Ronan Lyons (House Price, Q4 2008)
- Dr. Stephen Kinsella (Rental, Q3 2008)
- Moore McDowell (House Price, Q3 2008)
- Shane Kelly (Rental, Q2 2008)
- Fergal O'Brien (House Price, Q2 2008)
- Eoin O'Sullivan (Rental, Q1 2008)
- Dermot O'Leary (House Price, Q1 2008)
- Dan O'Brien (Rental, Q4 2007)
- Frances Ruane (House Price, Q4 2007)
- John McCartney (Rental, Q3 2007)
- Ronnie O'Toole (House Price, Q3 2007)
- Ronan Lyons (Rental, Q2 2007)
- Constantin Gurdgiev (House Price, Q2 2007)
- Fintan McNamara (Rental, Q1 2007)
- Rossa White (House Price, Q1 2007)
- Geoff Tucker (Rental, Q4 2006)
- Damien Kiberd (House Price, Q4 2006)
- Pat McArdle (House Price, Q3 2006)
- Marc Coleman (House Price, Q2 2006)
- David Duffy (House Price, Q1 2006)
- Austin Hughes (House Price, Q4 2005)
- David McWilliams (House Price, Q2 2005)
15th Mar 2007
Geoff Tucker is our guest blogger, commenting on the latest Daft research on the Irish property market.
The latest analysis of the rental market contained in this edition of the Daft Report shows rental values continuing to increase steadily right across the country, with the annual rate of growth reaching 10.5 per cent in February 2007 - the fastest growth rate since the index started tracking rents back at the beginning of 2002. Rental values have been increasing since the end of 2004, though it wasn't until the middle of last year that the pace of growth really picked up and reached double figures.
It comes as no surprise to see the biggest jump in rents over the last twelve months occurring in Dublin 2. Here the average rent for a one bedroom home increased by 24.3 per cent to €1,234 per month and by 19.7 per cent to €1,679 per month for a two bedroom home. Two bedroom homes in Dublin 18 also registered a significant jump in rental values, rising by 18.8 per cent to €1,574 per month. This post code includes locations such as Sandyford, Stepaside, Kilternan and Carrickmines that benefit from being close to major centres of employment and good transportation links that provide easy access to the city centre. The increase in rental values reflects a variety of factors at work, but is primarily due to the strength of tenant demand, which is linked to the sustained growth in population and high levels of inward migration, especially in Dublin. Alongside this, supply constraints in some key urban locations have led to further upward pressure on rents while the substantially improved quality of product on offer, with modern, well fitted-out apartments replacing the traditional older bedsits/flats, has also had its effect.
The strong performance in the rental market has continued to encourage investors to purchase residential property. In the new homes market investors account for just over one-quarter of all purchasers, compared to around 20 per cent only two years ago. The continuing presence of investors is a major vote of confidence for the Irish residential market. The investor plays a vital role in the residential market, supplying much needed accommodation to the private rented sector, which accounts for approximately one-in-nine private households nationally and one-in-five in Dublin.
Yields on residential property (the annual rental income generated as a proportion of the overall property value) have increased for almost all accommodation types in Dublin during the past six months, reflecting the growth in rents and very little change in property values. Changes in yields outside Dublin tend to vary depending on location, increasing for most accommodation types in Galway City and falling in Limerick City. Yet for most investors, long-term capital gain is the primary objective, with many planning to use their property investment to fund their retirement or as a nest-egg for their children. Figures from Hooke & MacDonald confirm this and show that three quarters of investors purchasing new homes last year plan to hold on to their property for more than five years and half for more than ten years. Therefore, the prospect of a couple of years of single-digit growth rates in the Irish residential property market is unlikely to deter investors and is in fact far more sustainable in the long run.
Investors rate rental potential, access to public transport and potential for long-term capital appreciation as the most important factors influencing their choice of property. As a result, it is not surprising to see the majority investors purchasing properties in city centre areas - the traditional core of the rental market - or in suburban locations that are along key public transport routes and are easily accessible to major centres of employment.
The growth in rental values is expected to continue throughout 2007, rising by an average of 10 per cent this year, primarily driven by the demand for good quality accommodation. This, along with the final wave of SSIAs to be released later in the year, will ensure that investor activity remains strong right through the remainder of the year.
The Daft Report also highlights the importance of the rental market in helping first-time buyers reduce their monthly mortgage repayments through renting out a room. Figures from Hooke & MacDonald show that one in every four first-time buyers purchasing a new home last year planned to rent out a room, including 40 per cent for first-time buyers purchasing on their own. Given the current upward trend in rental values, an increase in the Rent-a-room Scheme income limit to €1,000 per month (currently €635 per month) would be an appropriate policy response and should be implemented as soon as possible.
Finally, this edition of the Daft Report provides a snapshot of new home prices for the first time, of which there are currently over 25,000 units available in over 3,000 new developments on the Daft.ie website. There is some variation in prices between the new and second-hand markets, though this in part can be explained by the varying degree of the quality of stock in the second-hand market and the fact that the majority of new homes are exempt from stamp duty provided the purchaser plans to live in it. This is one of the many reasons new homes are so popular with first-time buyers.
In the region of 80,000 new homes will be built across the country this year and while this represents a reduction on last year's figure, it is still a remarkable level of output. The favourable economic outlook - sustained levels of job creation, strong wage growth, maturing SSIAs, buoyant consumer spending - and the continued increase in population will ensure demand remains strong. Average price growth of 5 per cent looks likely this year, which is a far more sustainable rate of increase than the double-digit growth rates of last year. Even after taking into account the last two recent interest rate increases, affordability for first-time buyers actually improved in the first couple of months of 2007, thanks in large part to the changes in mortgage interest relief for first-time buyers announced in Budget 2007. The benign outlook for interest rates in the year ahead, with at most one more rise expected before the ECB will put rates on hold for an extended period, and the more moderate pace of price growth should see affordability improve again in the latter half of 2007. To sum up, the residential property market is performing well, particularly when compared to spring 2004 and 2005 rather than the overheated market environment dominated by spiralling prices in spring 2006. Bricks and mortar have consistently proved to be a reliable long-term investment - nothing has changed in this respect.
The Daft.ie National Rent Index
Irish Rental Market Growth 2004-2007
Average Rents across Ireland in March 2007
* Warning: This snapshot provides a highly generalised view of the rental market and is based on many thousands of properties advertised on Daft.ie between December 06 and February 07. These figures should be used as a guide only and should not be used to set rental levels as many qualitative factors affect rental prices besides area
Discuss This Article
Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Pete Date: Thursday March 15, 2007 @09:34AM
Maybe its not all doom and gloom in the property market after all. I knew that rents were going back up, but didn't realise by this much.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: dolly.g. Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @10:52AM
Why did DAFT ask for the opinion from an economist with a bit of objectivity ? Hooke and McDonald have been flogging apartments all over Ireeland for donkeys years. Now they cant sell the apartments as the market is saturated - and maybe in a downturn - ergo the news that rents are rising has to be heralded to all and sundry so that .... you guessed it the suckers (i.e. investors) can be conned into buying the apartments that cant sell. If there is no capital appreciation - look at the "Massive" increases in rental.... They are only conning the poor suckers. Actual rents had fallen behind so much that they are only playing catch-up and those suckers who purchased apartments on variable rate mortgages are not even getting rent increases to cover the last SIX increases in mortgage rates..... never mind whats coming down the line! Ken McDonald was whinging on the papers last week that the GREEN PARTY are to blame for the fact that apartments are not selling in the city centre. Come on ! Coleman (another economist with a vested interest) yesterday in the Irish Times (The paper which for the last 10 years has hyped the market along with all the other vested interests) blaimed THE MOTHERS OF IRELAND for the fact that the market went crazy and appealed to the "vested interests" not to talk down the market. Would you believe any of them if they told you tomorrow was St. Patricks Day ? NEXT TIME YOU WANT ANALYSIS OF THE RENTAL MARKET ASK AN ACADEMIC WITH NO VESTED INTEREST ! By the way I have been involved in the letting market for over 20 years !
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Cristian Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @02:10PM
Thank you for your email.
I've read the report and it is all understandable.
The inflation in property rents is generally speaking just another visible side of the rip-off Ireland.
The rental Property in Dublin City is overall of a poor quality standard and this makes it unsuitable for a reasonable life.
Whether it comes to young professionals or families, most of the houses or apartments merely cater for congested sleeping and eating.
The typical Units do not provide decent space for a fully accomplished lifestyle, involving basic hobbies rooms, study/homework rooms, terraces, laundry and drying rooms, private open space, car and bicycle park, leisure time, etc.
To blame for the Desperate-Low-Standard-Dublin are fat faced developers and irresponsible planners along with the ignorant buyers.
Just as not-knowing-the-law doesn't exonerate one for not respecting it, not having any architectural education is not an excuse for property buyers to just buy anything: any dark, mean and low profile shoebox of an apartment, simply desperate of buying something.
No doubt the market spin doctors will always know how to word it in such a manner so that borrowers jump rushing to borrow more and buy an other kip. That's what they are making their cash from.
But we should all start to be more sceptical and shop around when hearing the blatant and deceiving "STUNNING, Amazing, Penthouse, Location, Hi Spec, Outstanding". Most of the times it turns out to be nothing more then mediocre average.
Buyers should expect a lot more in return for the money.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: sarah Date: Friday March 30, 2007 @04:27PM
I have to say,I agree that rental prices in Dublin are crazy. Im looking for a new place as my landlord has sold the house I live in, I don't know how anyone can afford most of the rents out their and have any quaility of life. You cannot save to buy, property for sale is hughly over priced and quite frankly some of the places I have seen for rent are appalling. I recently viewed an apartment that the furniture was fallening apart, as in the couch you fell into, the beds and headboard was obviously very old, with holes in them and looked in great neeed of a clean, the carpet dirty with stains all over it, and the whole apartment could do with a good clean and paint. This apartment was being let by an estate agent contained two bedrooms and cost 1,300. per month. How they can justify this or even stand there trying to rent the property in the state is was for such a price I don't know. But I'm sure some sucker who had no choise, came along and took it. It's time something was done to relate the rental market, with guildlines and penalties for landlord who don't follow them. Just because you are renting does not mean that you are a second class citzen and that you should take it and be grateful! Our society is certainly making the rich, richer and keeping the hard working ordinary people in their place,I mean do we not deserve a clean place to live, where you can swing a cat and possibly can have more than three people over at the same time. And while we are on the subject maybe we could also get a new bed that doesn't smell or have holes in the headboard. I know we deserve that at least!
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Anonymous Poster Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @02:39PM
Tomorrow is Saint Patrick's day.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Michael Date: Monday March 19, 2007 @03:22PM
Renting in Dublin makes sense to Polish,Italins, Chinese Indians etc where they can live in cramped badly kept, expensive properties for a few years, and then go home and buy property with as little as 20 grand. This is the usual story if you talk to them. This is the globalised economy we live in now. Unfortunatly the young generation of Irish are having to compete with this but their 30 grand of savings won't get them much in Ireland. They are dependent on transfer of wealth from the older generation. Expect a widening gap between rich and poor as middle class with no immediate inheratance fail to join the property ladder.
Also note that the older generation will be slower about transfer of wealth as they will have learnt from the States and the modern popularity of nursing homes.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Antoine Date: Wednesday April 18, 2007 @09:59AM
Agree with all above comments re Rip Off Ireland. In fact I welcome it! You can have your overpriced, overrated, unaffordable property and all the hype that goes with it. I'm outta here.
Between property maddness, chronic traffic, pitiful infrastructure and general consumption obsession that marks the new Ireland, its all pretty sad to be honest. Born & raised in Ireland, I can happily say that after 30 years there, my next 30 years wont be there. Cheers for the education etc, I know enough to know there's a far better quality of life to be had in far away shores and it aint unemployment or famine driving people like me, its discussions like this. Best o luck to all spending 3hrs+ in traffic to return to overpriced, overrated accomodation as discussed. Here's one guy happy to walk. Point of note for the Celtic Tiger - Standard of living V Quality of Life - the Celtic Tiger's proving the inverse relationship prevails
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: liam Date: Thursday March 15, 2007 @10:31AM
It is the rush from investors to sell property before the full on crash that is temporarily reducing the amount of properties for rent , which is then temporarily pushing up the price of rent. Expect everything to be back to normal in about 12-18 months when the crash is over.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Paul Murphy Date: Thursday March 15, 2007 @12:02PM
What crash?Property prices have not fallen and nor will they.What rush by investors to sell?A myth is all that is.What is driving up rents is both a lack of supply and the lack of affordability for ftb who have to rent as they cannot afford to buy
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Liam Date: Thursday March 15, 2007 @12:15PM
The amount of property for sale is up 3-4 times than this time last year, fact.
This is because of the rush from investors to sell, unless you can give a better explanation?
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Paul Murphy Date: Thursday March 15, 2007 @02:16PM
3/4 times property for sale?If thats the case and there are 75,000 currently for sale,were there only 20,000 for sale at any one time in 2006 or 2005?I don,t think so.The increase in properties for sale is down to investors and ftb,s staying out of the market and not purchasing additional units and is not down to them rushing to offload what they have
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: TheOrb Date: Thursday March 15, 2007 @12:25PM
Paul the rush to sell would be the doubling in the number of properties for sale on daft since autumn 2006
Equals Investors offloading properties before its too late
Equals less properties for rent
As a matter of interest which would you take (a) 7.1% interest risk free from Anglo Irish Bank or (b) Invest in 2 bed apartment in West Dublin yielding c 2 to 5% which has fallen in value by c10% in last year?
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Paul Murphy Date: Thursday March 15, 2007 @05:55PM
I would take the property every time.For instance if I had 40,000,why would I put it in the bank and earn 7% per annum.What will the bank do with it?They will lend over 500,000 on the strenth of my money!
I would instead borrow 400,000 from them over 25 years at circa 5%,and buy a property.If you believe that Anglo,s return of 7% will outperform property over the long term you are extremely naive!
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: paul meagher Date: Thursday March 15, 2007 @09:47PM
paul murphy... you certainly know your s..t
i just hope that ftb's will read your postings.
put my ssia into stocks and shares and lost up to 30-40%.
property is def., the way to go. for the past 10 years ftb,s were told to hold off. if that is what i had done i now would be paying probebly up to 400% 500% more for my house. BUY NOW and don't be fooled.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Tipsy Mc Stagger Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @12:37PM
Take advice off above who lost 40% of his money ?
HA! Its obvious prices are falling - do a search online for ["price reduced" daft.ie] or ["price reduced" myhome.ie]
Lists of fallen house prices - so why would you "invest" in something that is going down in value?
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Paul Murphy Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @01:47PM
It seems we have another begrudging and jealous idiot above.Prices have fallen?From what?I can guaratee you that prices have not fallen below what they were 12 months ago.It is the begrudging F####RS like mcstagger who are constantly manipulating statistics to suit their flailing argument.Of course property will outperform any banks deposit rate over the long term,ie 10-20 years.It appears you are the IDIOT mcstagger
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: The seeker Date: Saturday March 17, 2007 @08:15PM
Paul Murphy, I suggest you declare your biase as working in the property industry and that troll sites like this trying too assess public opinion towards the housing market. At the same time acting as a newly confered cheerleader of the property market, you vent your spleen at any view that is contrary to yours. If the market is in such good condition why do you pay so much attention to "begrugers"????????
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Paul Murphy Date: Monday March 19, 2007 @04:27PM
i don,t work in the propert industry and i certainly don,t pay any attention to begrudgers either
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Paul Murphy Date: Wednesday March 28, 2007 @12:19PM
The seeker,I declare that you attribute your bias to being a non-homeowner,probably a fenchsitter,who having sat so long,have seen house prices spiral.
Having missed your opportunity you have joined the rather militant band of muppets who are affiliated to such sites and organisations as "the property pin.com".For the uninitiated the propertypin is a website devoted to tracking the "demise" of the property market,it is ran by a group of amateur economists and individuals who obviously have too much time on their hands.
These individuals track supposedly falling house prices and are out in force in reply to this report eg,mcstagger,the seeker,mr google cache etc etc.They have yet to come up with a shred of evidence that property prices are retreating from where they were 12 mths ago.
As allready stated i neither work in the property industry or pay attention to begrudging idiots,who are the newly conferred cheerleaders for a property collapse,with little understanding for the harm that this would cause this country.But pay no attention ladies and gentlemen as these idiots have an unparrelled track record in calling the market incorrectly,after all they have been saying for the last 10 years that the market will collapse!
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: The seeker Date: Saturday April 28, 2007 @11:59AM
Mr Murphy,you are correct, I do not own a house as I have spent the last few years studying at undergrad and postgrad level to work in a true profession. I do indeed read all biased reporting(both positive and negative) on the housing market as that is the only way to triangulate the truth. Do you have a problem with people questioning sources of information? Quid pro quo: Have you ever studied housing economics or just economics, or are you an amature like the rest of us?
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Patrick Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @03:40PM
If you are ftb in the sticks hold off and watch the price of new homes drop back...builders will cut profit margin to continue property bubble...whats 50k here or there to a builder...but it's serious money to ftb...the age of 250k semi in ballygobackwards and close to all non-existant amenities is over no matter what the money-men say.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: mick Date: Saturday March 17, 2007 @10:23AM
cannot understand how you could have lost 30 to 4o% in stocks and shares over last 5 years all markets are well up,you must have got hammered in charges,
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: TheBank Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @07:05PM
Your ignorance astounds me Paul Murphy!
400,000 would become more than 2.2 million after 25 years with a 7.1% interest rate. To achieve that same gain using leverage on a property costing 800,000 as you suggested would require the property to increase in price every year by 5.5% (if you rent if out) or 6.6% (if you don't rent it). To put that in perspective, it's about 3 times the target inflation rate that the European Central Bank aims for! After the previous 10 year boom to expect that for the next 25 years is just silly. As the saying goes... "a fool and his money are easily parted".
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Jimmy Date: Saturday March 17, 2007 @08:14PM
Would you mind working that out for us with the Anglo Irish account?
Dont forget to read their terms and conditions before you try to work it out though.
A little checking of these will have a big impact on your calculations of what you will end up with.
If you've put as much thought into your opinion on the property market as you have into your little lesson on interesr rates you'll go far indeed.
Also where is someone going to get 400000 to put into an account, unless they borrow it.
I can just see the bank when you ask them for 400k. "Yes sir, You want to borrow 400k to put it in another bank account to earn interest? What are you on?"
I think you might find it easier getting a mortgage for 400k
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Paul Murphy Date: Monday March 19, 2007 @04:25PM
And your naiviety astounds not just me but also any sane person who reads your idiotic dribble above.If a person has 40,000 to invest,he can use leverage to give him at least 400,000.The same 40,000 invested with Anglo at 7.1% would be worth 222,000 in 25 years time,while if the 40,000 was used to purchase a property worth 400,000 over 25 years it would be worth 1.35 million after 25 years with the loan repaid(that is with an average growth rate of 5% p.a,fairly modest average for 25 years)
Case closed you CLOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Prices have fallen look herePosted By: Mr GOOGLE CACHE Date: Thursday March 15, 2007 @12:26PM
Market is Kaput - the future holds serious social and economic
consequences of this idiotic boom, false wealth and bad planning
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Google Date: Thursday March 15, 2007 @11:32AM
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: shark Date: Thursday March 15, 2007 @12:10PM
I have lost all faith in the Daft website
Daft are know a vested interest
This report is a load of @;'.#####
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Mick Geraghty Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @04:33PM
While I may not agree with what Mr. Tucker is saying, I commend daft for giving him a platform, cos I want to hear both sides of the story. In other reports i thought daft gave the other side of the argument to much weight. I think all you want to hear is that rents are coming down and the market is crashing, but this is not true at least for the former.
As far as I can tell the report is totally accurate in terms of rents. I've been renting in the same place in Milltown for the last 4 years and was going to move out into town, but rents are unbelievably high now and there are queues for even the most basic places. If you want a decent reasonably spacious apartment, you can pay 2,000 plus a month for the privilage. I'm staying put for the moment and hoping that the landlord doesn't put up my rent. On the plus side as house prices seems to be stagnating, I may now take the jump and buy a place, because there is loads of choice out there and I reckon sellers are willing to bargain.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Anonymous Poster Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @04:33PM
So, how are Daft a vested interest now? Cos they got an estate agent's economist to write a commentary?
Funny, I don't remember the bears criticising Daft when they'd David McWilliams, world class worrier, writing the commentary.
Once they don't make a habit of getting commentators from one 'camp' or the other, getting in different perspectives is a healthy thing.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Anonymous Poster Date: Thursday March 15, 2007 @11:51AM
Good lord, an estate agent economist telling people that now is the time to buy property? Will wonders never cease. And to think that rents have now the dizzying heights of 2002!
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Gerry Date: Wednesday March 21, 2007 @10:08PM
If less people are buying houses at present due to the uncertainty that is there pre-election,people still have to live somewhere so this will have to fuel the demand for rental properties,1 mans loss is another mans gain.Being a landlord will always have a futute to it,ie that is what being an investor is about,nothing is plain sailing and if yo expect things to keep growing at the previous pace it time to come off the mushrooms now.Rental returns are better than ever and should stay ahead of interest rates.
Lighten up dude.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Shortlease Date: Thursday March 15, 2007 @12:03PM
Within 12-24 months rents will begin to drop becoming quite severe as the market is desperate right now with many house sellers trying to offload investments properties thus reducing the natural rental supply. The market has tanked so this strategy is doomed.
The glut of properties on the sales market with diminishing sales will force sellers to cut their losses and desperate logic will dictate that renting might be the last best hope. However flood of properties back to the rental market will create a massive oversupply driving rents to the floor.
During this period will see a synchronization of trend as downward pressure pushes both rents & house prices causing a dramatic downturn in the market.
This current upward climb of rents but a blip. It was predicted exactly it has occurred in tandem with the beginning of price drops for sales.
It is foolish to draw a positive conclusion from this 1 report that the property market as a whole is doing well. Rents have remained relatively flat for the last 4 years while House Price Inflation sky rocketed. This is the key and highlights that it is the panicked sellers/investors rushing to the door at once that has caused this temporary rental supply squeeze.
Buyer Beware.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Drednought Date: Thursday March 15, 2007 @12:40PM
I thought that the reason all these factories were closing was because Ireland was uncompetitive due to it becoming a high cost location. Should inflation of 10% in a necessity be considered a good thing?
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: longlease Date: Thursday March 15, 2007 @05:19PM
likewise it is foolish to draw a negative conclusion from this one report.Or is it perhaps that you are a little peeved that the famous "crash" has not or will not happen?
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: longlease Date: Thursday March 15, 2007 @10:04PM
lots of nice buzz words like "syncronisation of rents" in the above comment but very little substance.A load of cobblers really!So investors are desperately offloading properties?And they are vacating them before they put them on the market?Silly investors!
But of course this is not the case.Any investor worth his salt would not take a chance of emptying his property and placing it on the market.if he was trying to sell he would sell with tenants in occupation.
The increase in rents is due solely to a lack of supply which was evident long before the market levelled off and is being exaserbated by the unwillingness of investors to purchase additional stock.FTB who have been priced out of the buying market are also driving the rental forward as are the 110,000 immigrants a year
Ah, happy days, the party continues and the naysayers and begrudgers are scratching their noggins and clutching at straws to explain this one!
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RentsPosted By: LiamGeatai Date: Thursday March 15, 2007 @01:45PM
The increase in rents seems to be a city thing (with caveats) not a rural thing. The caveat is that rents grew particularly strongly in Dublin and Cork only .
I do not think that Daft has a great sample size to infer from in certain rural areas where rental properties may still be advertised in the local supervalue or in the Herald or Leader or Examiner so maybe its best you concentrate on where you do have a good sample size , Dublin and Cork .
Eventually ye will take over the planet and will be definitive nationally :)
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Re: RentsPosted By: New to this Date: Thursday March 15, 2007 @04:55PM
I am mot convinced that rents are rising due to demand but due to pressure from rate rising been passed onto the renter( which he/she is accepting). FAS report out saying employment grow to slow significantly next year as will immigration. Which at this point(~80% home ownership)is the only variable proping up the rental market.
P.s. Please dont quote house occupancy at 2.7 compared to europe 2.2 as we have a younger population who tend to house share more than older populations.
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Re: RentsPosted By: Sam Date: Monday April 23, 2007 @05:03AM
Hi All,
As a home owner who has made 50K on a 1b (D15)in the last 14months - I was tempted to sell. But everyone else seems to be selling and no-one seems to be buying!!
But I have had locals knocking at my door begging me to rent it to them... So yes I agree many are trying to get rid of their properties. But Why?? There are many out there who need a rental!
How can a market crash when there is demand? People get to wrapped up in statistics, they change all to suddenly and too quickly.. what dose the street tell you?
I for one have decided to rent instead of sell and I now have the hard choice of picking who to rent to.
When people stop immigrating to Ireland the market will crash. But at the moment Ireland is the Buzz city, everyone wants to live here, more people want to be Irish.. Dosnt it make you proud to be Irish???
For those doom and gloom comments above, you should put more energy into changing legislation so that landlords provide a clean, safe home to rent with furniture that dose not exceed 5 years of age. This is a real shame that properties are being rented like this and it needs people with the persistance and energy, such as some of the people who commented negatively above, to be chasing 'changeable' and 'tangeable' needs.
Leave predicting the future to the prophets.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Anonymous Poster Date: Thursday March 15, 2007 @05:37PM
Try to remember there is no such thing as THE property market. In a slowdown new houses in outlying commuter areas will suffer, quality homes in good areas convenient to the city will hold their values as these are the places people actually WANT to live not where they buy because that's all they can afford.
A house on my street went sale agreed this week after only 10 days on the market at 850,000.
My property market is just fine!
Chose where you buy carefully and you'll be fine, remember buying a house is a 5 to 8 year investment.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Anonymous Poster Date: Thursday March 15, 2007 @06:24PM
no buying a house is to live in for most people actually
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Rob Dublin Date: Thursday March 15, 2007 @07:40PM
Why is this edited by an economist from Hooke McDonald?
It is as unbiased as asking turkeys to vote in a referendum to ban Christmas! I am currently in Limerick and there is major gloom here about Dells fortunes, and what it will mean for the market here.
Finfacts today has a scary article on just how little of our exports are made by irish firms.
The market sentiment has turned in Ireland. Noone will appreciate vested interests talking it up a bit more just so a few more people can get burned.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Eamonn Date: Thursday March 15, 2007 @08:08PM
I'm curious to hear both sides of the argument. Those who believe the market is headed downwards, how much of a drop do you anticipate alues to fall?
Those who the market is steady, that prices will hold, what is your outlook for the next 12-24 months?
Im torn between both sides right now myself, being a single guy who owns a house and thinking of selling up, taking the 300k equity rather sit back and take the chance that prices will hold up.
Thoughts/opinions anyone?
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Anonymous Poster Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @10:28AM
I can't claim to know for sure where the market is going to go in the next 12-24 months, but here's how I'm thinking about it:
First, make a distinction between intrinsic and market value. What we're talking about here is market value. Or what someone is willing to pay for a given property, put another way. This is not the same as what that property is truly worth, it's what it's worth TODAY.
Second, supply and demand rule all. In any market (property, stocks, bonds etc...), price is set by supply & demand. If there are more buyers than sellers, price goes up. If there are more sellers than buyers, price goes down. Current trend indicates that at current property prices, there are more sellers than buyers.
I believe the market (supply) will have to come down to find more buyers (demand), especially as ECB rates will continue to rise over next 18 months.
Whether prices need to come down 5% or 20% depends a lot on the difference between intrinsic value (worth) and market value (price). Some crap properties got pushed up by the buoyant market and will come down hard due to increasing supply. Well located & well kept properties will maintain much better since demand will skew towards quality. My 0.02...
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Non professional Date: Saturday March 17, 2007 @09:10PM
I can quote you from an article I read and beleive." based on a survey in the UK property has doubled in value every 7 years in the past 200 years" I personaly first concicered buying a house when they were selling for about IR3,000 pounds yes(Three Thousand) in dublin. I was 16 years old then. Now 36 years later the same house a 36 year old house would cost me about 450.00. Work it out for yourself.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Anonymous Poster Date: Monday March 19, 2007 @01:15PM
The name of the game in this environment is not to maximise profits but to minimise loss. With 300k equiry, you could easily afford to sell up, rent for 12-24 months, and get back in if and when the market settles. It is worth considering that with Ireland bleeding jobs, how many non-nationals will stay without a job and owning a house with negative equity? Some experts are saying this could take as long as 10 years to sort out...what's the rush about owning an asset with diminishing value/returns?
Good luck.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Anonymous Poster Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @11:37AM
>Why is this edited by an economist from Hooke McDonald?
Why not? You know he works for an estate agency and can apply the appropriate weight to his views. As far back as I can remember, I have never seen any economist working for a stockbrokers fail to talk up shares as an asset class when comparing them to property. Just as biased . . .
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Conor Date: Thursday March 15, 2007 @09:07PM
Its cheaper to rent in Dublin 2 than to buy.
Rent in Dublin 2 will cost you 28 per sq.m per month.
Buying in Dublin 2 costs 33 per sq.m per month in interest on a 30 year mortgage at 90% LTV after taking into account mortgage interest relief. Add ontop of that the associated costs of a mortgage - life assurance, home insurance and management charges.
It's a no brainer to rent - cheaper and better cashflow (just invest in stronger condoms).
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Brian but not daft. Date: Thursday March 15, 2007 @09:16PM
I have rental properties in various locations. I would neither buy or sell at this time - I will sit this out. Good properties in good locations will buck the trend of any perceived stagnation. Rents have to rise for a number of reasons and my experience is that rental income has solidly increased by 5- 10% over the last year in any areas where there is reasonable employment prospects. Presently rental income would not even pay the interest on loans on a property. In one case I prefer to leave the property vacant for now as the cost of maintenance and other outlays would only equal at least 50% what the market will pay me. Perhaps a good holiday let over the summer is a more attractive proposition outside Dublin and other major cities.Meanwhile I have the tax relief. There is a lot of doom and gloom in the response to this report.I have been in for the long haul over the last 25 years. If you have spare cash and you can live with low levels of rental income in this period I suggest you avail of lower prices on property where people want to cash their chips in now. Ensure the property is in good repair and that it will not need attention from you for many years and go for it. In 5 -10 years you will have achieved a much better return than elsewhere. Bricks and mortar instead of wall street crashes or nett 3% from the bank in periods of 5% + inflation. Look whats happening to house prices in the UK - nearly up 8-10% in last 6 months. Look at the prices there too - we have a long way to go to catch up - but stay away you fainthearted.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: George Date: Thursday March 15, 2007 @10:33PM
Your latest report reflects my experience in letting a 2 bedroom duplex in Dublin 4.
I received rental of Euro1,800 per month in February. This compares with rental of Euro1,500 in July 2005.
There were 2 tenants prepared to pay that amount.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: my 2 cents Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @12:01AM
I believe the rent increases in decent areas (D2/D18) can be attributed to three main factors:
1) A lot of new quality appts coming on stream pushing up the average rents paid.
2) Higher interest rates and the loss of capital appreciation are pressuring landlords to cover costs
3) FTB are priced out of the market due to prices and rising rates.
Rents are still very cheap. Simple example is a 2 bed appt in D18 listed on this site. An investor will pay 450K + stamp + fees = 485,000. Say 10% down and a mortgage of approx 2,200 per month over 30 yrs (assuming no more int rate increases).
If you are getting 1500 per month rent, This adds up to a 8400 deficit.. add in your annual maint fees and furnishings and it is easily 10,000. More if you use an agency. Add in the 33,750 stamp duty paid = 43,750 negative equity after year 1. This also assumes you have continuous occupancy, dont get a dodgy tenant and there is no maintenance required during or between tenancies. I would be a little nervous if I was not in it for the long term and had deep pockets to fund a deficit.
The other option is buying the unit out completely. This gives a meagre return of 3.7%, again assuming 100% occupancy, no costs, no tax and no nutters. With the absence of capital appreciation (0% in the past 6 months) Im not sure it stacks up as a good lump sum investment.
Perhaps my analysis is over simplified but it seems everyone in Ireland is a property expert why cant I be :).
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Anonymous Poster Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @03:52PM
In my experience the rental income is roughly 2 thirds of the mortgage and this difference doesnt seem to have changed. The difference is carried by the investor on the expectation that rents will rise and eventually cover costs. To get to the breakeven point used to take me 4 to 5 years (assuming no bad tenants) but now its looking like it will be 9 to 10 years. I believe the change is down to interest rates. Before, we had consistently low rates and now we are seeing steady increases. Rental income in the past, in general, increased due to, inflation and the demand for accommodation as the population increased (in Dublin at least). Now things are different as it has to finance steady interest rate increases.
So I think the report is accurate on the growth in rental income but it is misleading in its upbeat property market interpretation. The rental increases are not enough to offset the increasing costs of investing. Something has to give and it looks like its on the investment cost side. We are already in the downturn.
But its not all doom and gloom. Rents will stay reasonable people have to live somewhere. Wait it out and pick up some bargains.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Kelly Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @09:57AM
The U turn in rents has been obvious in the past 12 months. My belief is that we have had 5 increases by the ECB in mortgage rates last year and more to come. Most investors want rents to cover their mortgages hence they spend a little extra doing up the property in order to achieve a higher rent. Coupled with the inability of a lot of people to get on the property ladder, keeping them in the renting market. I think that we will see property going for sale in the next 5 years or so if costs keep rising and the Irish may revert to the Continental way of thinking and go back to long term renting. It would make sense when you can cut back your outgoings and enjoy your extra cash!! Quality of life as opposed to bricks and mortar!
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: AIE Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @11:33AM
Don't know about the rest of you, but I paid less last year after negotiating, and even before it wasn't anywhere near the 1300 yoyos per 2 Bed apt. in my Area (Clontarf, Dublin3).
something smells bad here in this article, or is it just wishful thinking?
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Kilmainham investor Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @12:52PM
We are paying 1454 each month on a mortgage in Dublin 8, we are getting 1200 in rent. Yes, rents have gone up but i expect any investor who has bought in the last 5 years (with a 85 -90% mortgage) is depending on capital acquisiition rather than rental income.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Antonio Coutinho Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @01:54PM
Reports like this say nothing to me.
They are just a description of of the sad reality that is affecting Ireland.
I have read similar articles about the same issue for over thirty years around the world and it is a pity that here in Dublin, as well as around Ireland the same story of <bubble real estate property prices and Rental prices have taken over> the market, supported by banks in a deregulated market.
In fact the good capitalism laws are, have not been, and were not used here, again. It is just unhealthy to let millions of households get their returns/savings to be channeled and tighted to fixed assets such as houses and land for such big periods of our lives, subject to severe downtourns of economic activity.
We all live 45 years and an house should be payed in 15 years, no more than that, so that most of us world be left with 30 years to put al other savings in the bank, boats, hollidays or investment.
Banks here didn't learn earlier lessons of hardship cycles that happened elsewhere earlier in Europe, and have banked and feed the speculation on housing and property prices at the expense of normal folks, which had well embarked on this sad story.
Banks can one way or another do write-offs or mask losses in ...?????....assets, but private guys can't.
How then how can a house here be valued 350K or 500K or 750K? considering their size and the way they are built!. It is just ridiculous.They are weak, all the same style, and small.. very small.
In my opinion, the market is going soon or later to crash as it did crash in other parts of the world, and it didn't needed to be so. There will be no soft landing for the sector. And the population size is so small, that there are no <extra buffers segments> where the government could try to pass the choke on to.
Economists here as elsewhere earlier in Europe, did not do properly their homework.
Different property ownership schemes could have been develloped here in Ireland, to divert the bulk of individual/family savings to other sectors. None of this was done.
It is a pity that once again, the story of the construction sector being a speculation sector is repeating itself, this time in Ireland.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Dec Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @03:28PM
Economics - the dismal science. Say what you see lads. There is no innovation in any economic report,truly a waste of time. Hindsight is 20/20.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Michael Date: Saturday March 17, 2007 @02:42PM
The houses are more expensive and their quality is just very very very low!!! If someone wants to have a personal life has to live with 3 or 4 or 5 persons. I have seen somoene who was living with 9 people together. This is the worst level of life
SOUNDPROOFING. This is an unknown word
You call the landlord to see the house and he sais "Come tommorow, leave me your details and i call you back" and of course "no music, no friends" This is a normal life????? I don't suppose!!!!
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Kevin Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @02:55PM
Rent increases were only a matter of time. The gap between rental incomes and mortgage repayments was massive and something was going to happen to regularise it. The rent increases won't do that alone, property prices have already began to fall. What intrigues me is the comment someone made earlier about a low supply of properties to rent compared to demand and hence the rental increases. A daft report produced last year showed that over 30% of properties bought in the last 5 years were unoccupied... How is there a property shortage???
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: longlease Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @03:56PM
The shortage in rental accomodation is very visible in Dublin anyway.If you advertise an apt in Dublin on Daft the reaction is unbelievable and the property will be let in 2/3 days.Up to 40 different parties are showing up to viewings.Does this not indicate a huge shortfall in rental accomodation in Dublin????????
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Miriam Cotton Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @03:01PM
Were it not for the rental market, we would be seeing mass emigration again to countries where people can actually afford to live. Where I live the average four bedroom house costs about 500-700K (a pittance compared to Dublin, I know). That means the first time buyer - who is expected to stump up 10-15% of the mortgage typically must find 50-70K on salaries that mean it will take them half their life. Hence the 30-year old stay-at-home singles who are now a feature of family life - and the elderly remortgaging their houses and jeopardising their own financial security in the process. The money guys have figured out a way of making sure that we spend the whole of our lives in hock to them and that we end up owning nothing at the end of it, despite having paid vast sums in interest for the pleasure of it. It's lunacy.
Buying property is now absolute lunacy for most people.
15% of the housing market is empty. We dont need to build any more homes. But developers want the bonanza to continue and since they are the ones bankrolling Fianna Fail too, we can expect to see more of the maouvering by the bank/insurers/auctioneers/developers cartel that we have seen for a decade and more. Huge swathes of countryside are being needlessly destroyed for houses that are not needed, other than for feathering the already well feathered nests of the well off. Many towns are unable even now to fill their holiday homes and appartments in the summer season - so these (frequently hideous) boxes lie empty all year round.
It's difficult to believe that rents are actually going to go up with a glut of empty houses. But if they do, then coupled with the increases in electricity, food and everything else, many people will simply not be able to afford to live here. We keep being told that inflation is running 5%. Rubbish. I dont care how they calculate it but everyone knows this figure could not be true. Food has practically doubled in price - trebled even. Everything has gone up by at least 25% since the euro was introduced and house prices are no exception. If rents go up any further, it will completely depress the rest of the economy. Nobody will have any disposable income for anything else.
AT what point should the rest of us start to remind our government that there is more to our society, our economy and our welfare than building houses for profit? When every blade of grass has been built on? When people are sleeping on the streets again?
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: MikeyS Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @03:02PM
Could someone please advise me if there is any logic in my thinking here!
1> We are seeing a report which may be logical, but is not necessarily unbiased. So lets take it with a pinch of salt
2> We should not be to over confident in our predictions (which I have seen in these blogs) remember the confidence invsestor had in Eircom, even government ministers publicly hyping it!!!
3> There is indeed a lot of external influences ignored here whcich in fairness may not have been obvious e.g. the recent alarming pattern of Corporations pulling employees out of Ireland, on the other hand the German Economy is picking up!!
Personally I really find it hard to predict what will happen! The only thing I see as a safe investment is a pension anyone agree?
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Anonymous Poster Date: Sunday March 18, 2007 @12:38AM
Pension? Safe?
I have a friend who age 75 got a letter to say his pension was being cut by 25%.
My own semi-state pension pay-out was cut to 57% because of poor markets. It has risen again to over 80% due to increased performance.
Houses/property don't disappear. Shares do.
I rest my case.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Brian Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @04:00PM
Here is just a prime example of house prices and how much they are ripping us off.
I've just started working full time in a proper job.getting paid well but not too well condsidering that dublin is SOOO expensive.
I'm currently living in and around the Portabello area.
I pay 550 a month and share with 11 people in a.... lets say house but it doesnt have any windows its more like a hostel,it has comunial showers and toilets.
in fairness how can landlords get away with this.I was told to go to the PTRB and look up my rights.I went then to my landlord with the rights. He said to me
"Oh yeah we got the fire and safty officer in here and he approved that the house was safe"
now this house has one door and out and 11 room with no windows.Can anyone explain to me how a health and safty officer could say that its safe to live in a house with no windows and only 1 front door?
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: longlease Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @04:23PM
that is a disgrace,go to threshold or the prtb as the house sounds like an illegal let.no natural ventilation or light?you should definitely report him and then find a new place.You should have signed a prtb form with the landlord when you moved in.The landlord is bound by law to register the tenancy with the prtb
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: joe Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @04:41PM
In fairness why don't you just leave and find a nicer place for 550? I pay 475 in ranelagh sharing with 3 others and have my own double room. Quit asking the government to sort out your problems and do it yourself by MOVING!!!
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: ... Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @11:44PM
Then I suggest that you seek better accomodation. If people who need to rent do not take a step to stop landlords renting anything from spaces under stairs at outragous prices and unsafe dwellings then we need to stop complaining as we have a responsibility towards ourselves and other more vulnerable groups to seek better lodging at affordable prices.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Anonymous Poster Date: Saturday March 17, 2007 @09:57PM
you will easily get to share a house for less than you are paying , check it out on daft.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Anonymous Poster Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @04:02PM
sharing a house with 7 others... average rent is 550..... in dublin 12... does that sound right??
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Anonymous Poster Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @04:21PM
How many bedrooms?
Do you pay the landlord directly or someone in the house?
550 per room is OK but if all 7 of you pay 550 each in a 3 or 4 bedroom house then it's too much. Unless it's some fab house!
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: robert Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @04:25PM
I would rather live in a caravan then pay the rents been asked
for in dublin.point me to a halting site!!!
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Live Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @05:19PM
The gap between have's and have-not's is growing. Gombeen landlordism flourishes. Landlords: how could you rent substandard property? Mouldy homes. Homes with no windows. Greed has taken root and is growing. A lot of people are benefitting from conditions that were brought about for reasons outside of their control. Unearned income. Older landlords especially treat renters as if they were not even human. Renters plant flowers too. We all share life together. I'm amazed and shocked that I will not be able to even RENT a decent house, much less buy. I refuse to lay out cash for a dark damp shoebox with thin walls. It's not worth it. For God's sake, rent us decent homes. Developers: you should be ashamed. You build ugly, identical houses with no playgrounds, schools, or other amenities and charge a fortune for them to people desperate to live somewhere, anywhere before it's too late. The birth rate is dropping because young families cannot survive here financially or otherwise. Quality of life is awful. Commuting. Lack of creches. 'Remember, a house is an 8 year investment' above wrote. No, A HOUSE IS FOR A FAMILY TO LIVE IN.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Anonymous Poster Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @09:16PM
well said.greedy landlords worrying about their investments while I worry about my health with mouldy walls and freezing rooms
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: John S Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @10:54PM
You are damn right. It is 'daft'ness the cost of substandard developments with about as much personality as Steve Davis and as much comfort as well...something not so comfortable. Anyway, I for one would like to buy but realistically myself and my wife earn between us 40k per annum, what kind of house could we expect to buy? Thankfully we live in Galway and not in Dublin which is just a joke. People will have to make a decision to pull out of Dublin for any kind of normal existence... Its amazing Estate Agents can get away with ads like '*** Auctioneers are delighted to offer to the market an elite and mind blowing City Centre Duplex Penthouse. *** is a very individual and extraordinary penthouse with out of this world views and situated in Galway s main hot spot'.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Marta Date: Saturday March 17, 2007 @08:47AM
I fully agree. Thank you for making the point a bit clearer. Landlords have become too greedy. Everybody should have a place to live, but as you said, at what price? Mouldy, dark, damp, small places are available. I am afraid but I would not consider that a home. Something has to be done, but what? Please remember A HOUSE IS TO LIVE IN. Thank you.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Anonymous Poster Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @09:12PM
I'd just like to leave a comment as a tenant who rents.I have rented in the same place for eight years now as I can not afford to move with the rip off rent that is being charged.I am a single mother and do work.I have damp and mould on my walls which is little concern to the landlord as you can assure it won't effect him.The flats and apartments that are up to scratch are an absolute fortune in rent!
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: paul meagher Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @09:32PM
mc stagger, i dont have to be sherlock holms to guess that you are in your mid thirties, single, living with your parents and still saving for your deposit for a house because you have been listening to the likes of shane ross telling you to HOLD OFF buying a house because prices will fall. people like him have been saying this since 1995/96. idiots like you have been taking this advice for years.a house in a good area in 94/95 would have cost you in the region of 50-60k, and because you didnt have the ba..s to buy then, youre stuck at home waiting for a politician to knock on your door to GIVE HIM A PIECE OF YOUR MIND, again.
bite the bullit and i'll give you a good rental price on one of my houses/ apartments. of course i'll need GOOD referances, not likely as you seem to be a bit of a WOD.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: The Man Date: Tuesday March 20, 2007 @10:19AM
Dear Paul Meagher,
Are you taking any prescribed medication?
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Richard Montague Date: Friday March 16, 2007 @09:39PM
The landlord did not make the land,neither did s/he apply his skills and energies to the resources of nature to produce the building materials nor yet did the landlord fabricate those materials into a building. The occupants, often the buildes pays the landlord and the landlord lives on the back of the tenants. Money, a universal medium of exchange is a more efficient means of robbing the real producers of all real welth than the gun that is used by the petty crooks. The whole swindle is aptly encapsulated in the following quatrain:
The boss he calls i Profit and he winks the other eye;
The banker calls it Interest and heaves a cheerful sigh;
The landlord calls it Rent as he tucks it in his bag
But the honest old buglar, he simply calls it Swag!
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: TFK Date: Saturday March 17, 2007 @12:24AM
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: working class Date: Saturday March 17, 2007 @09:20AM
To be honest there is no such thing as a price drop. It is widely known that prices are being manipulated, for example. It will only take a look at the average wages to decide how high they can pull op the rent. They work with a identical system as loan providers. They know that there is shortage in rented accommodation. The only thing they do is calculate there years profit. This malpractice is due to greedy managers whose purpose in life seems to be outsmart competition and configure the stats of whom may be living in such and such area. And when you tell them your the average working class they tell you nothing is up for rent, so they can rent it out to the next one who earns more than you.
All this is my view based on my experiences, hopefully it wakes up some hibernated goofs.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: tomasz Date: Saturday March 17, 2007 @10:38AM
I have been living In Ireland for the past four years in the munster region mostly In Tralee and I have never paid more then 650 euro a month for a three bedroom house. Right now I am renting a newly biult 4 bedroom fully detached house with two bathrooms, drive in car garage buetiful garden and I am paying 650 a month. Of course the landlord wanted 850 a month and if I would have agreed thats how much I would be paying. And I bielieve that at the level of todays wages in factorys, hotels, and retail outlets around 1800 euro month, 700 euro a month rent would be the border line for what people can afford. And as for the gap between motgages and rent incom, If you get 50% of the mortgage you should be happy, Your getting half the property for free! Expecting someone to rent your property and pay your entire mortgage is just being plane greedy and looking for a sucker. It wont happen with me!
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Maria Date: Tuesday March 20, 2007 @02:56PM
Where is that area where one can find a house for 600 per month?
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Anonymous Poster Date: Saturday March 17, 2007 @11:35AM
i do pay a large rent in dublin 14 becAUSE it is next to my work (1400) so i save on my sanity by not driving in dublin trafic, my job requires moving every year so i have to rent, but i agree with responders the apartment currently am renting is not a place to raise a family or to live for long time, am sure the landlady will never live in this apartment at the same time with the Economy booming i thik she will always find someone like me to rent it to... so if you have your own place to live why not use banks monay to buy an apartment for rent i say ????
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Anonymous Poster Date: Sunday March 18, 2007 @12:29AM
Rent rising or falling?
For good, tastefully decorated property, rent has risen considerably. This year I got 25% rent increase - but I had to wait a while to get it.
Any idiot knows that this is a good time to buy - sellers are nervous and willing to do deals. Its like buying shares after a crash - they can't crash much further.
By the way, in 2000, during the dot.com crash, prices temporarily fell by about 20% in Rathgar;there was n press comment, but the reality was that there was grea value for buyers back then. Maybe the same now?
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Guru Date: Sunday March 18, 2007 @01:25AM
Demand for rental property is being driven from people working in construction or in the service sector. If house prices stagnate and hence less new houses need to be built to satisfy demand; then less workers will be needed to build the houses. Hence a decrease in demand and a fall in rent prices. If this occurs some of the more jittery investors will sell increasing the supply. House prices will fall to a level that first time buyers can find affordable maybe 10% less than present prices. The amount prices will fall by ultimately depends on employment. Multinationals are leaving Ireland and the demand for new houses is falling meaning less construction jobs. So why are we being told this is a good time to buy when it clearly is not!
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: michael noonan Date: Saturday March 17, 2007 @01:33PM
there are a number of reasons for the current realignament of prices and supply.
large quantity of new better laid out stock
investors trading up from section 23 stock with the ten years up and releasing equity from older units
oversupply of old stock available due to the release and disposal of the 96/97 built units when section really took off
rises in interest rates
all these factors are just like speed ramps they simply slow things down which is no harm .
all this just produces a readjustment in the market.it helps to cool the market.
i have listened to comments for years in relation to the market falling.
dream on .the market will allways be subject to fluctuations with rises and dips . the rises however will always override the dips.
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accomodation in dublin!!!!!Posted By: michael Date: Saturday March 17, 2007 @02:35PM
Accomodation in Dublin!!!! What a joke!!!! The most of the houses are terible and expensive. For example if someone wants to rent a house is just his salary and the quality of the house in very low. Diferently he has to live with 3 at least persons. I have seen people living 9 persons together. This is the worst level of life i have ever seen!!!! How can someone have a personal life living together with 3 or 4 or 5 persons?????
Rent a house!!!!! you have to call the landlord and he will say to you that you leave me your details and i call you back!!!! Thus someone can spend all his life searching for accomodation!!! And the landlord says "no music, no friends". IS THIS A NORMAL LIFE???????
This is the most redeculous thing in Dublin and i believe is the worst thing that i have ever seen in my life!!!!
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Former long-term tennant Date: Saturday March 17, 2007 @10:55PM
1. Renting in Dublin is considerably cheaper than buying and has been for well over a year now
2. Paying good rent for poor accommodation is just lazy on the tenant's part as there is plenty of good quality accommodation available and good landlords out there
3. Investing in rental property at this time is a high risk activity particularly for the inexperienced (increasing interest rates, risk of cap depreciation, bad tenants, heavy entry/exit costs, maintc charges, etc)
4. Many investors who made bad property investment decisions during the boom times still made good gains but will be punished for similar decisions made in the current market
5. Buying and then subsidising a rental property in the hope/expectation that it will appreciate is for the foolhardy. The investment decision should be based upon the proposition that returns will cover expenses from day 1(with robust stress testing for even higher int-rates). Any cap-app is a bonus
6. Most experienced investors are in it for the long haul, know that markets are cyclical, and expect / provision for 'soft' rental/cap-app periods.
7. 'Arm-chair' investors will panic-sell when the trends look unfavourable (we are starting to see some examples of this) offering FTB's (and others) the opportunity to hunt for bargains in a bear market
8. The old adage of selecting investments based upon 'location, location, location' hasn't changed
9. In the likely event that ECB base rates will rise to 4%the pain threshold for those 'fence-sitting' (i.e. those that haven't panicked already) investors will become too much (given that most lending agency stress testing of 2%, a mere 15 months ago will probably be exceeded this year)
10. Those FTB's (& others) looking for a better deal should hold off as the bargains will be had toward the end of 07 and beyond
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The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Tim Date: Sunday March 18, 2007 @08:00AM
My landlord is selling the property once the agreement expires in June & I'm having major problems securing an alternative even paying a 20% extra rent. Plenty of apartments out there but I have four kids and unless I get them to sleep in shifts, I need a minimum of three beds. It's not very logical but seriously considering buying as there is choice and agents now seem to ring back and one can negotiate price.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Ali Date: Sunday March 18, 2007 @02:06PM
Its true that the rents are very high in Ireland especially in Dublin, according to my openion I am living 1-bed flat and pay about 740 including electricity, but the reason is that its near to my college and work as well.
There is a lot to say but haven't got enough time.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Emer Date: Sunday March 18, 2007 @04:40PM
From my experience, this report is a absolutely correct. I bought an apartment in Ballymun and was anxious that it might be difficult to rent out. Not only was it very easy to rent out but it more than pays for the mortgage despite rising interest rates. The only thing that I'm kicking myself about it that I didn't do my research and find out what the market rates for rent were in the area. I am charging 1,000 for a 2 bed but I could easily have got 1,200 per month. This is almost double the mortgage repayments. Even in the worst case scenario, if I sold the property today with "falling" prices in the market I would still make profit of at least 50,000 after 12 months. If you're smart about where you buy, you won't lose. I think with worsening traffic in Dublin's city centre, this is having quite an impact on the market affecting prices depending on location.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: JANE Date: Monday March 19, 2007 @12:15AM
I bought my house in 1991 for £120,000 (152,000 euro)It is now valued at 1.4 million euro. Don't waste anymore time - JUST BUY YOUR HOUSE NOW!
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: andy Date: Tuesday March 20, 2007 @10:54AM
Im very happy for you, but salaries haven't increased with house prices, so if you couldn't afford to buy then you still can't now, I was earning 30,000 then, now i earn 70,000 and can only afford 350,000-400,000 show me a 3 bed for thet.....
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: chris Date: Monday March 19, 2007 @02:03AM
lads i think yere quite firmly on the side of the landlords on this website, no suprise as thats where the money is. How about instead of going on about the increasing rental price organising that all renters in Dublin pay 30% less rent from now on, a union sort of thing. I think ye'd be capable of that. At the moment young people like myself are getting the worst of both worlds, high house prices and overpriced rent. In germany they may have high house prices but a 2 bed in berlin costs 400 a month to rent. To be honest Im going to emigrate as paying so much to live in a city with all the problems as Dublin simply is not good sense.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Richard Date: Tuesday March 20, 2007 @09:41AM
People have to remember that the main driving force in the economy for the last 5 years has been nothing but housing, the original forces which brought prosperity in Ireland are drying up. We are faced with an ironic situation where Polish workers come here to help build houses so that Polish workers can live in them while so they can work to build more houses.
Some will stay but most will go back and that will happen as more manufacturing jobs go and houses start flooding the market.
As for Germany, I agree as I have lived in Germany and the quality of life if way better. Just to have decent, reliable health care, an efficient infrastructure and a competent police force along far, far less government corruption is reason enough.
My wife and I rent at the moment because she is still in college. The moment she is finished we are gone. That's one less house rented in two years' time.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: chris Date: Monday March 19, 2007 @02:09AM
how about the government getting involved in the rental market and putting on some sort of a cap? Oh sorry I forgot most TD'S own a few properties themselves and their friends and the property developers mighnt put up a tent on raceday
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Ivan Date: Tuesday March 20, 2007 @10:30AM
I can simply say that this situation has to finish. It's absurd to pay so much to rent house (sometimes considered by landlords) as luxury apartments and they are not at all!
I rented an apartment for more than 900 euros per month 10 minutes walking from cork center.
Two bedrooms (no one of them is a real bedroom) not enough space, rain entering from the wall, wind entering from windows..
It's really to much..but landlord.. prepare your self because one day the things will change for sure.
As this fake economy in ireland starts to slow down, you'll have to decrease prices, and you don't a lot of people is already thinking to leave the green island for other places..
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Anonymous Poster Date: Tuesday March 20, 2007 @01:45PM
Well said i bloody hope it happens fast!
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: GEORGE Date: Thursday March 22, 2007 @02:35PM
i am leaving to england!!! I cannot afford this stupidity!!! 1000 to rent the house in Dublin (in a good case) and the city doesn't offer you anything!!! Only rubish in the streets!!!I see people walking in the street and leaving in rubish in the pedestian or in the parks and i wonder "I spend all my money for that??????" The people are uneducated and they thing that they will make money by housing!!! ENOUGH!!!
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Anonymous Poster Date: Tuesday March 20, 2007 @01:34PM
OK, THAT'S CLEAR TO ME.we just get out of here and as fast as possible. Soon we will have to pay a licence to be able to walk on footpaths. or a mobile home maybe on st stefen's green....or on croagh patrick. where ever the site the only descent place for everyone is soon becoming under the bridges.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: longlease Date: Tuesday March 20, 2007 @03:09PM
If Ireland is so bloody terrible,then just do us all a favour and go back to the luxury place you came from in the first place.Germany seems to be a popular place with some of the moaners posting comments.Mayb you could go there either,allthough i,m not so sure it is as idyllic as some people believe,with high unemployment,social inclusion and even fascism just some of the problems they are dealing with at the moment
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: In your face Date: Tuesday March 20, 2007 @04:02PM
Facism....The Blunt brother of Crony-ism.
Dublin sucks balls. Deal with it longlease.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Dec Date: Tuesday March 20, 2007 @04:45PM
Great Suggestion!!!!!
I think what most of the people who have posted comments on this site are angry about is the manner in which we the general public are fed information!
The users of this report tend to be informed individuals who don't like to be fed b.s. and on this occasion it really does taste like b.s. and your comments don't really help!
sure there are plenty of people who want a crash, that is obivous, not everybody were in a position to purchase before it spirraled out of control!
But there is on thing for sure, no one seen the Celtic Tiger coming but plenty of politicians have ignored the fact that the Celtic Tiger has left the building some time ago and the effects are sinking in! It is not going to be nice for anyone, wheather your property long or property short! If we enter a recession along with the US it will be a bumpy ride for us all!
The most annoying thing is the government had plenty of warnings about our unbalanced situation from the EU, OECD, IMF and the Economist but no one batted an eyelid, like we are immune to conventional economic!
We are NOT immune to conventional economics, just like people thought that there was some sort of new economy during the dot com era!
The best comment on this whole blog is "Buyer Beware"
take everything with a pinch of salt even what I have just said!
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: The Seeker Date: Tuesday March 20, 2007 @07:46PM
Longlease, telling people to return to where they come from because they have a different opinon to you is to the right of nazism.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Inforfun Date: Wednesday March 21, 2007 @10:08AM
Nice suggestion longlease.
I wish i could organise it that every non-national would pack their bags here at the same time and leave this ripp-off culture.
Ireland would be there again where it was 15 years ago. Being very very close to a 3rd world country. I dont know how you dare to tell people to get back where they came from.
I decided to stay around a little while longer, i want to witness the collapse of country, just to see the helpless looks on faces of people like yourself when you have to go beg in europe again for saome pity money.
I apologise to the decnt Irish people i have met over the years i have spent here. It is people like longlease who give the irish a bad name.
I bet he also claims the non-nationals take his job??
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: blowin Date: Wednesday March 21, 2007 @05:11PM
Come on,longlease is just saying what a lot of people feel.If the place is so bad,then don,t stay,piss off someplace else.And that includes everyone,Irish moaners too!
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: longlease Date: Thursday March 22, 2007 @12:57PM
i see you have been here long enough to become as begrudging as the natives then!I would,nt dare suggest that you have taken anybody,s job,there are jobs a plenty for everyone.But i can assure you we have got to where we are today by hard work and not solely with the help of immigrants who now want to assume a moral highground and are looking for a pat on the back for dragging us out of the mire.we done most of it ourselves dear.If you are waiting for us to go back to the bad old days then you are in for the long haul as it won,t happen.
And what exactly is wrong with telling the moaners and knockers and begrudgers to piss off someplace else if they don,t like it.Far away fields are green and all that..............Come down off your moral highground and accept the country for what it is or leave
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: GEORGE Date: Thursday March 22, 2007 @07:57PM
and you go back to America
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: longlease Date: Thursday March 22, 2007 @09:58PM
America?????Have you been smoking again GEORGE?????
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WHAT WE CAN DO!!!!Posted By: rockmonsters Date: Friday March 23, 2007 @02:37PM
Nice report!!! I don't know i have to laugh or to cry with your words!!!
I can understand how you feel everyone but i would like to say my oppinion!!!
First of all i agree that the rents are very high and the salaries are very low comparing with the market!!! Of course the accomodation in Dublin city is a tragedy!!! I accept that this is fullish! The problem is what can we do about that!!! If you are Irish and you cannot accept this situation i can understand you why you scream!!! If you are not you can search your luck in another place. That should be better than to blame the country. but all the oppinios should be accepted. I am not Irish but i am located in Dublin. I could help the country to improve. That should be better than to scream!!! Dont wish to fail and to go back to the tragedy. THIS DOESNT HELP ANYONE!!! I just say my oppinion. If we dont do anything, if we dont move everyone will fail!!! Of course the rubish in the street is a problem. But the same happens in France in Italy in Greece in Belguin. Everyone has problems!!! If you know a place without troubles please let me know!!!
I repeat the problem is WHAT WE CAN DO AND HOW!!!
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Baby Boomer Date: Wednesday March 21, 2007 @11:58AM
Maybe some of you economists could please give me some guidance on a few things?
Are there any actual statistics available on who it is that has bought up all the property, or do we just have to assume it for ourselves and gather some inking from the newspapers who are getting their information from God-Knows-Where?
One of the reasons I'm asking this is because I suspect (and hope) that the demographic factors may have a bit of an impact and get affordability back to somewhere this side of the moon.
How many people born 1978/1979 have yet to buy? We are the classic wanna-be first-time buyers as far as I can tell, and if we are a signifacant sector of the market for buying property, does this mean the demand will drop steadily from now on, similiarly to the Leaving Cert points which have, in general, dropped steadily since 1998 when competition was at its most stiff?
I haven't noticed anyone factoring this into their predictions.
And how many property owners fit into the middle-aged, bought-a-second-home for the sake of making a few bob category and are now predicted to cash in their chips now things seem to be levelling off?
And also, are all the non-nationals really not planning to stay here?
I don't hope for a crash as so many people I know would lose money, but it does seem from my angle that the way things are is just too crazy to go on.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: TheOrb Date: Wednesday March 21, 2007 @03:11PM
baby boomer , you are right .
There were approx 80K people born in 1979 this birth rate then proceeded to drop every single year until 1993 when there were approx 45K people born here .
Thats quite a drop but I m sure the vested interests would point to the ray of hope that is immigration. Oh yes we have Polish workers here working on building apartments that they can then proceed to go and rent from Mr Property Developer . Lets home theses workers dont decide it would make alot more sense for them to return home some day or they will be alot of empty apartments here
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: GK Date: Wednesday March 21, 2007 @03:15PM
House prices cost what people can afford. What you have to decide is whether people can afford the prices being asked. If they cannot, then the prices will drop. The nature of the drop is the interesting thing. Rarely is it smooth, in fact based on historical data the chances of a smooth leveling out is in the single digit percentile. Ireland is no different. Now if you prudentally assume there will be a drop you have to consider the drop level (as a percent of price). In order to do this you have to first decide how much they are over valued. Then you have to take into consideration another more heuristic factor. Sentiment.
In Ireland they are overvalued by between 15 - 30 %. (30% is huge I know, I had to recalculate to convince myself this figure was correct). Currently the problem is related to politicians and Interest rate increases. It is easy to calculate the impact of the % increase.
Ireland needed a property price correction. Due to the large increase in jobs etc the cost of property increased because people could afford to pay more. There came a point when property was correctly valued, but it went past that for a few reasons. Firstly, mortgages became more freely available and far larger mortgages became freely available. This simply mean't property had a higher value once again as people could afford to pay more. It does not mean property became over valued. Then the banks increased the term to 25 then to 30 then to 35. Once again this meant the banks forced the value of property higher. It is worth mentioning that each time the banks made a move they significantly improved their profits while reducing the spendable income of anyone who took out a mortgage.
Now here is the problem. Interest rates have gone up. Each time interest rates has gone up the cost property needs to reduce. This did not happen as the banks met these increases by increasing terms 20 years - 40 years. By increasing loan to salary ratios. And reducing the stress test banks did in determining whether a person could qualify for a loan amount. Currently the stress test is at 2%. (They determine what effect a 2% increase in interest rates would do to the loan applicants financial situation).
Ok. Now we are at a point where the banks can do no more. EBS were going to reduce the 2% stress test a month bank but were stopped by the Central bank.
Where do we go now. The last two interest rate increases were not eased by the banks cause they have nowhere to go. The next interest rate increase comming in June will also be passed directly to the mortgage holder. To exaserbate this problem the banks for the last few interest rate increases have had to reduce the amount they can loan to applicants. This simply means property is now worth less.
Now what you have is most buyers unable to afford property (the one they want anyway) cause the banks won't loan them the money. You have sellers refusing to budge cause they know Jim Bob down the road got 20 million Euros for his house and they want 10 times that. What will happen? The buyer cannot move as the banks won't loan him what he needs. The banks can't move cause the Central bank won't allow any more leverage. The seller is the only one who can move. And he will, give him a few months of no interest and he'll reduce his price. Ask youself what happens next? Will buyers decide to hold off as they see prices dropping? Will over stretched motgage holders default? I will answer this in a part two....
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Paul Murphy Date: Wednesday March 21, 2007 @05:09PM
15-30% drop in house prices?I don,t think that is very realistic and even if house prices were to take a say 20% tumble that would only bring them back to where they were at in late 2005 thereby affecting less than 10% of the market.
The fact remains that interest rates of 3.75% now and 4% from June is still extremely low.Rates of 4.5% prevailed when we entered the Euro in 1999.
The fact also remains that the total outstanding mortgage debt is 113 billion while the value of housing stock is 550 billion.If it is the case that the housing stock is 30% overvalued then the stock is 385 million leaving an equity cusion of 70%.anyone who purchased before 2003 now has more equity than debt in their property.
As for longer term mortgages of 30 and 35 years,they were introduced long before interest rates started to come back up and were not in response to it.
Continued strong immigration and a convergence towards the EU density norm of 2.2 are also important.Although discounted by irrelevant by some bloggers here who evidently don,t realise that we have already adjusted from a density level of 4 in the mid 80,s to a level of 2.7 now which is steadily decreasing.
Regarding the current stagnation of the market,recent election promises have definetely introduced uncertainty to the situation regarding stamp duty resulting in many prospective purchasers holding off resulting in increased stock.There is no evidence to support the argument that "investors are rushing to offload" as suggested by many bloggers who have also suggested that this is creating a shortage of rental accomodation and is thus driving up rents.Nonsense any investor selling at the moment would not vacate his property before hand but would wait till it was sold,at which stage he can legally evict them.It is also conviently overlooked that rents have been rising since early 2004 long before the market started to stagnate
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: GK Date: Wednesday March 21, 2007 @05:25PM
Just a quick response.
You have ignored all I said about afforability being related to price. If a buyer simply cannot get a big enough mortgage then the prices will have to drop by the amount needed to make the property affordable again.
One of three things must happen. People to get bigger salaries, Banks must lend more or prices must come down. The first two will not happen, I hope I don't need to explain why.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Paul Murphy Date: Wednesday March 21, 2007 @10:54PM
Just a quick response here also
There have been people using the same logic and argument as yourself for the last 5/6 years and they have been wrong.The logic is correct but the housing market is to important to the govt to stand watch over any major correction.Changes in stamp duty and perhaps even vat on houses for ftb will have the market back on an even keel in no time
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: GK Date: Thursday March 22, 2007 @01:01PM
Paul. I said prices had to come down. If the government remove their stamp duty, then prices have in fact come down. This would most certainly provide a safety net. It is a scenario I did not mention in my three scenarios.
If the government were smart (Which they most certainly are not) then a way to solve the whole problem would be to remove stamp duty and tighten mortgage criteria by the same percentage that prices would drop. That means no one looses but the government (us). The chances of this bunch of simpletons even thinking up something like that, never mind actually pulling it off, is slim to say the least.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Doubter Date: Thursday March 22, 2007 @01:15PM
i,ve been listening to the same argument and statistics on affordability since 1998 and house prices continued to appreciate,why should it change now?
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: GK Date: Thursday March 22, 2007 @03:50PM
I've already explained that in a previous post. If you couldn't be bothered to read my posts. I couldn't be bothered to explain myself again.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Nomore Date: Tuesday April 17, 2007 @01:29PM
Sorry GK, but you are really easy to ignore - too much regurgitated economic studiespeak written by those with vested interests I doubt you have a real grasp of the reality on the ground. People pay what they have to and many dont have a choice. In the end greed has always backfired at just about everything in the history of mankind. And every time people thought their situation was different its just the way of the world. Those landlords who feel tenants must shoulder the entire burden of their life investment (completely ignoring the while capital appreciation benefit) will find themselves without good tenants very soon.
Longlease what the hell do you mean by social inclusion in referance to Germany? I lived in Germany and I never had any problem meeting friendly people. And what is with the Fascist remark; are you referring to a social conflict begun in the 1930s and ended in the 40s??? Lets live in todays world if you dont mind. I never met a German Fascist in regular company.
However, I know plenty of people here who resent non-nationals for just about everything. Recently, one of my working colleagues expressed what I can only describe as restrained jubilation upon at hearing, and thus gleefully spreading, news of a young Yankee busker being refused entry to Ireland recently I reminded her that the US has accepted several hundred thousand destitute Irish economic refugees right up to the early 90s. To this she replied at least they had talent. I refused to indulge her after that remark and just shook my head. I know this isnt everyones attitude but I think most Irish people in this country can identify a few acquaintances like this.
To top off attitudes like that, Berti has the nerve to beg the US to open their arms to nearly 100 0000 of our old economic illegal refugees currently hiding in the US.
Maybe some intellectual giant like your self should just tell these freeloaders to feck off back to Ireland after all, our economy has been much better than Americas for several year now? Its a simple solution to their plight isnt it? I wonder why they havent thought of it themselves? I wonder what makes them stay? I wonder if it's not just that easy for so many people to pick up and go? I wonder if you have the capacity to consider thoughtful comments instead of knee-jerk reactionary rubbish? I hope the next time you hear one of them (the Irish refugees) whine about their situation you immediately step in to shove your foot in your mouth. People like you make me sick and you are the only Fascist around here.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: longlease Date: Wednesday April 18, 2007 @02:27PM
I have absolutely no problem with foreign nationals in ireland,and would acctually welcome more of them.They have given the country a great boost in many ways.
What i do resent is people who constantly piss and moan about the country,as allready stated if it is so bad then leave.
Regarding germany if you believe that everything is hunky dory and there is no problem with fascism/nazis then you are naieve in the extreme
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Anonymous Poster Date: Friday July 13, 2007 @04:12PM
hey Gordo
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Oisin Date: Wednesday March 21, 2007 @08:22PM
As an economist and market researcher in the property rental market for the past 15 years,I read with amusement the so-called economic comment by Hooke and McDonald's Geoff Tucker. It was more of a sales blurb than an objective comment ... after all he is in the business of pushing overpriced properties in one of Dublin's most successful sales agencies. If the comment is intended to be an objective one, then it was a mistake to invite Geoff to be your commentator.
Thanks to Daft for giving some information on the rental market but in truth this is not a scientific approach. It does not compare like with like and therefore the supposed rent movements are not accurate. To quote your own small print "The snapshots of rents are a highly generalised view of the market... they should only be used as an indicator of rents and not as a definitive guide".
Rents for the same properties have gone up in 2007 but more in the region of 4-5% than the 10.5% you quote. However, average rents have gone up because of the introduction into the market of more up-market properties at higher rent levels. Remember nobody ever pays the average rent - it is a fictitious figure somewhere between the highest and the lowest.
Rents went up in 2007 because demand exceeded supply. Over 80,000 new young people came into Ireland demanding rented accomodation, thus increasing demand. Investors, seeing the excessively high prices of new properties did not meet this demand because current rents do not meet the cost of providing the accomodation in the first place. Unless property prices come down to give rental returns that more closely match rents, then there will be a major housing crisis.
And your snapshots of rents in different Dublin areas do not reflect the market situation. One bedroom apartments in Dublin 1 (1,178) are not in the real market getting rents higher than Dublin 4 (1,144). Nor is Dublin 8 (978)doing better than Dublin 6 (939).
Then when we look at the two-bedroom rental figures quoted, Dublin 4 (1,621)comes in higher than Dublin 1 (1,412)while Dublin 6 (1,378) comes in higher than Dublin 8 (1,308). This is closer to the real situation.
The unreality of the rental figures you show are highlighted when one looks at the premium paid for a 2-bed over a 1-bed. In Dublin 1 you claim it to be 234, in Dublin 2 445, in Dublin 4 477 and in Dublin 6 440.
In summary, the report does not give a true and accurate reflection of rental changes in the market place. Rather it reflects the difference in the average rents of properties which happened to be advertised on Daft over that period.
Still, a worthwhile exercise. But don't lets get carried away by the figures.
Oisin. I
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Happy renter Date: Wednesday March 21, 2007 @08:34PM
Regardless of the recent gains in rents, residential property as an investment is a mugs game these days. Without the 10% cap appreciation per year that investors have taken for granted, the margins are gone.
My situation is I have been renting a 3 bed house in Dublin 18 for the past 18 months. I got a fair deal and pay 1200 per month. Identical houses in this estate sell for 710,000. With 10% down, a 30 year mortgage, fixed for 3 years, my monthly payments would be 3680 per month. A difference of 30K PER YEAR over renting! Over 30 years I would save 900,000 keeping it in a big tin under my bed! Never mind your Anglo Irish high interest account.
This level of deficit has been acceptable for the past 5-10 years where prices have probably exceeded 30K per year in this area..but will they continue at the same rate for the next few years??.. Call me a begrudger but Im guessing they will not.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Paul Murphy Date: Saturday March 24, 2007 @06:27PM
Ah ye that makes sense allright.In 30 years time you will have given somebody 432,000 to help pay their mortgage off.(that is without rental growth and assuming that you continue to pay the equivalent of what you currently pay).
The 900,000 that you will have "saved" will be worth an astounding 278,000 in 30 years time assuming an average yearly inflation of 4% and you still won,t own a property.
It makes a lot of sense allright!!!!!!!
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Cee Date: Wednesday March 21, 2007 @11:13PM
GK - your assessment is well presented. Paul is also right when he predicts that we will converge to the EU occupancy ratio of 2.2. Problem is, for this to happen, we have to first converge in lots of other areas including energy and other costs that are way above EU average. Current high prices and rents are merely a sympton of these costs.
Very high productivity gains masked these cost increases in the past but unfortunately, our productivity is now on the wane. The adjustment will be painful but it must happen if companies are to stay here and come here in the future. House prices and rents also need to converge to EU averages so that the EU occupancy ratios can happen.
There was a very telling post on this forum yesterday from Richard and I fully understand his point. Living in Ireland has become a struggle for far too many of our people. A lot will leave unless we can give them value for their hard earned money.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: GK Date: Thursday March 22, 2007 @01:20PM
Prices will not converge. Too many reasons to discuss why. I'll make a quick comparison to our nearest neighbour, the UK. I'll pick the health care system as it is the most disasterous thing in this country and is down to our world class inept politicans.
In Ireland to visit the doctor you pay avg 50 Euros for a visit. UK everybody has a doctor and it is absolutely free.
2 years for a smear test. UK a few weeks.
Life saving operation 2 years. UK within 6 months(is a government target).
Visiting emergencies in Ireland 60 Euros. UK free.
People in the UK pay much less taxes than in Ireland.
Talk about Europe, the health care is 4 or 5 times better than UK.
How do I know this? I worked in UK for number of years and my wife is Spanish.
Back to house prices. In Dublin house price multiples are 9 times avaerage wage. In London 6 times. Salaries in London are also a lot higher than Dublin.
Insane house prices underpin everything in Ireland. Shops are expensive cause they have to pay insane property prices. Business sell expensive services cause they have to pay the insane property costs. All this can only be corrected with one thing....
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: n Date: Thursday March 22, 2007 @02:28PM
i fully agree with you except that the health system is better in other european countries than uk! Everything expensive in Dublin. And the houses rediculous expensive. If they don't do anything to short it out this problem i am sure that ireland will be poor again in the next 5 years. However the unemployment has started again!!! It's not so easy to find job anymore as it was 2 years before!!!The level of life is very low unfortunately!!1
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: GK Date: Thursday March 22, 2007 @03:00PM
I didn't express myself properly. I said, the UK health service is 50 times better than the Irish one. While the Continentials health care is 5 times better then the UK. Ahern and his minions can get away with this because Irish people don't know what they should be expecting. Our politicains are the best paid in the world and our health care is the worst in any developed country. I work with people from all over the world and the majority have health insurance in their own countries and refuse to use the health care here as it is so bad.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Grinningreaper Date: Thursday March 22, 2007 @03:48AM
If you realise that every single one of these barrow-boys in suits represents a major interest - estate agents, banks, building societies etc - then it is a very short haul to accept that they are lying sonafabitches. Why? Because they are claiming to know how things will be in the future when nobody can or does know this. Their 'forecasts' are entirely manipulations of the saps and suckers. Just check the records of these bullshitters over the past three years. They don't have special knowledge, they have neck. They have no regard for the truth, they only have regard for money.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Holger Date: Thursday March 22, 2007 @02:36PM
I can only tell from immigrant`s point of view - we are a young couple both well educated and the current prices make it far less attractive to stay in Ireland although we like it a lot - well especially I do - the hospitals, the lack of infrastructure in general and the high house prices make it extremely hard to convince my wife of staying in Ireland on a longer term
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Barcode Date: Thursday March 22, 2007 @05:35PM
Does any one know if there is a subprime Mortgage market in Ireland as in the USA.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: damian Date: Friday March 23, 2007 @09:38PM
All mortages in Ireland are "sub-prime." Prime mortgages that exist in the US have, for example, interest rates that are fixed for 30 years with the ability to sell at any time for no penalty. No such mortgages exist in Ireland as the banks run the show completely.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Paul Murphy Date: Sunday April 1, 2007 @11:41AM
Yes there is a sub prime market in Ireland.It occupies about 2% of the market(900million last year).The main players are GE Money and IIB homeloans.By year end this market is expected to have grown substantially with at least 4 new entrants to this market by year end
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Jean Date: Thursday March 22, 2007 @06:00PM
This Report is saying what it says. I believe that daft.ie as any bussiness company is tring to look after its own interests(its agenda). I only use daft when I need the services provided. that's it.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Laura Date: Thursday March 22, 2007 @09:04PM
In my opinion the hike in rents over the last year is a response to an increase in interest rates. Since a large proportion of so-called "property investors" are amateur landlords, many of which are quite literally amateurish to such an extent that even paying their due taxes is beyond their abilty, a lot have borrowed to pay for their investments under the hopes (and realised if bought before 2003) of high capital gains rather than rental yields.
However, even somebody who took out a 100k mortgage 5 years ago by now would be noticing the impact of interest rate increases, as as usual will pass this onto their tenants. What unfortunately isn't measured under the DAFT surveys is the extent to which landlords are having to drop over-inflated rents. Certainly when looking for a place to live last September, I noticed that a fair few places ended up dropping by around 100 euros a month before disappearing off Daft. There is a fine line between realistic expectations and unrealistic asking rents. With so many tenants in the position of being potential homeowners who've been priced out of the market, the tenant who cannot afford to buy an apartment on a mortgage of 1200 a month is certainly not going to be able to afford an equivalent rent.
From what I can see a lot of tenants are moving into commuter friendly or outlying areas in search of cheap rents rather than paying rents that reflect or exceed mortgage rates that are unaffordable for these tenants.
From this perspective I think that the current rental hike is a temporary blip rather than a sustained increase. A second impacting factor is that the private rented sector is increasingly being taken over by rent-subsidised tenants on social welfare. The only factor which has stopped this is that the high proportion of landlords who are not tax compliant never take welfare tenants due to their exposure to tax liability (and tax liability for previous years of tax evaded rents). I think this is likely to be an area of high growth in subsequent years as subsidised tenants are more likely to stay put and are not as likely to move due to a rental increase.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: longlease Date: Thursday March 22, 2007 @09:55PM
Is that why rents have been rising since april 2004 and interset rates did,nt start increasing untill dec 05??????????????
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: YC Date: Sunday March 25, 2007 @12:25AM
OK.There is a point of view from NON NATIONALS.
I am fro Ukrane(not EU)
Living in Ireland for 6 years.(family with 2 kids)
I like this country a lot- its my home. Have a lot of Irish freinds.
Didnt get chance to buy house that time.now its impossible to buy. renting house in d15 for 3.5 years.rent was increased in january 07. Its 1400 now,but same houses worth 1700 now. one of the reasons of rising that FTB couldnt afford to buy,and they need HOUSE TO LIVE.
but almost all new comers renting houses and sharing them with at least 10 people.and its not so expensive for them to rent even if its gonna be 2000 A month.
Most of them saving every single cent and investing it in property at home.
So ther is no reason for them to buy a house and pay thousands.
never met non national who want to stay here for long time.
My husband is building contractor so we know how new houses are build(cause he's fixing them afterwards).
Most of Irish people are uneducated even with nice and expencive cars and houses. their welth coming mostly from parents.
New comers have to work hard to climb to all ladders.
And believe me they doing this very well. ask your self why all non nationals get goog jobs,having their business.
New comers in their 30s all well educated and strong minded. them not affraid to leave their country and start all over again.
i knew russian family from Israel they said it was hard to find place for yourself in new country but they did it.
And local people thought that new comers will do all the dirty jobs in israel.it was like this for first years but then it changed.Isralian people had to do the dirty jobs. ITS WHAT YOU ARE AFFRAID OF?
Its can happen in Ireland as well. But not think so. Cause people doesent want to stay here anymore.
we used to live in Belgium and for Ireland need a lots of years to rish the same level of life as they have.
we went to acssident department in not the best hospital. spend there half an hour and service was more than perfect. here ................
all my friends going home to visit the doctors cause in ireland you cannot call them doctors. they have good equipment but no brains. cause all IRISH BRAINS emigratate long time ago.
So i dont see any future in Ireland if its will continue to go further that way. its not just change laws and gouvernoment YOU HAVE TO CHANGE YOURSELF.
I wonder how you will fell if house will drop in price,you lose you job and will have to move somewhere else TO SOME THIRD WORLD COUNTRY and local peplo will deal with you as you dealed with NON NATIONALS in Ireland.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Katie Date: Sunday March 25, 2007 @10:54PM
I think you are right, Europe has become a continent of a transient work force. When a country becomes too expensive as has Ireland people will pick up their tent and move to the next new economy. Multi nationals will also pick up their tents and pitch them where they will find a cheap work force and low cost living. Ireland has overshot itself and in doing so Ireland has shot itself in the foot. "Ireland is the sow that eats its farrow" I forget who said that I think it was James Joyce. We better get ready to fold our tents and become non nationals in some other land. See how they treat us.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Anonymous Poster Date: Tuesday April 3, 2007 @02:50PM
third world country????
Bad transports, Bad quality of houses, no motorways, Unorganization, Unemployment, Bad goverments, Rubish in the streets all that means 3rd world country. Very close to Ireland. Who sais that ireland is rich. Joke!!! They thing that they are rich!!! It's a TRADE economy. Wake up. (Did you see the real unemployment in ireland!!!!)
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Anonymous Poster Date: Friday April 6, 2007 @03:49PM
I personally feel that if people are critical of Ireland that they have a choice to stay or to go. If you are finding it hard to get a job then maybe you are looking in the wrong place. Irish people have for many generations had to emmigrate to make a life for themselves around the world and have embedded into other cultures. This is probably the first generation to be able to stay in their own country and work and raise their families. I believe Ireland is still a great country. Now the Celtic Tiger is taking its final breathe people are now becoming more critical than ever - it was fine when house prices were rising, jobs were being created on every corner - I remember when there were no jobs and it was hard to raise the money to buy a house which at the time was about 16,000 irish punts. The celtic tiger has given us a chance to grow as a nation and welcome new cultures - so if a little bit of Irishness has disappeared I think it has all been worth while. Where it all goes from now is anybodies guess but I certainly will be staying put and riding the tide ... will you?
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Antoine Date: Wednesday April 18, 2007 @12:20PM
No! far away fields are certainly greener than this greed riddled country. (Currently visiting many of same fields) Standard of living may have been worse in the past, but I cant imagine the quality of living was worse in old Ireland than Celtic Tiger ireland
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: brin Date: Friday March 30, 2007 @12:51AM
Watched a team of Polish workers today decommission an Irish factory so it could be moved to Poland. They work for an Irish contractor here and are looking forward to working in the new factories back home as the multi-nationals move their plants abroad to cheaper locations. Like a shopper will shop around town for bargains, multi-nationals shop around the globe to save billions. The 'experts' tell us we need to focus on higher value industries - services, R&D, new technology, so we can avoid a downturn in our economy ... Even with the most convincing bods in the IDA and generous government grants, how many multi-nationals are going to set up this type of industry here? Certainly not as many jobs will be generated as those which are being eliminated. We are told that we have a highly educated workforce - so too do lots of other countries that are cheaper than us. The people who run multi-nationals are shrewd and they look at Ireland and see how our government and leaders have managed to mismanage a booming economy for the last 10 years - poor decision making, weak leadership, lack of investment in infrastructure, disimprovement in basic social services. It's no surprise to see that the theme of a lot of the emails is that Ireland is no longer a nice place to live for many people. Even if Ireland is as competitive as other nations, why would multi-nationals invest in Ireland when they can chose another country where these global leaders will enjoy living and working. Will the Irish charm win them over again? A recent survey of US industry leaders indicates that Ireland has only a 43% favourability rating for foreign direct investment [down from 70% a few years ago]. This is very serious for our economy. As the investment that has seen our economy grow faster than anywhere else in Europe begins to diminish and homegrown businesses fail to replace the employment and industry that we will lose, there is undoubtedly going to be a signficant downturn for many of us. Those lucky enough to be working for the state should still have secure jobs while those working in middle management and lower in the private sector cab expect turmoil as this sector sheds thousands of well-paid jobs. It would be a shame to return to a situation similar to Ireland in the 80's but it may be inevitable. At least this this 'young' nation may learn an important lesson.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Liz Date: Saturday March 31, 2007 @03:38PM
This pains me, this article does. Whether the analysis is biased or not, it manages to hint at some of the underlying problems that I as a renter face: the impossibility of finding housing that is both affordable and liveable.
The rat race is utterly ridiculous. It goes well beyond finance: I've stood in lines of 20 people to see one dark, musty little bedroom for 600 a month. Also, I find the indirectness of the people letting the rooms, ("sure, yeah, grand, we'll let you know by the end of the week" - what comes at the end of the week? NOTHING, not even when you ask them to confirm a 'no' answer) and the flip attitude about leases absolutely insane.
Confession: I'm not Irish. I'm an American, a hard-working, clean, considerate, quiet person to live with. I also happen to be a graduate student. POST-GRADUATE. Adult. Not smelly, loud, or party-throwing (even though that in itself is an unfair stereotype). I do not understand the inability to make the distinction, and the discrimination (because that's exactly what it is - discrimination)against 'students' like myself is blatant and unbecoming to what is supposed to be a ciilized society. I need a place to live, too, and in fact I'm choosing to live a meager lifestyle right now in the hope that one day I might be able to contribute a bit more to society than the run-of-the-mill "young professional" landlords seem to prefer. And it is getting hard to work with loud constructuion outside my window all day and undergraduate roomates throwing crazy parties at night. But this the situation to which I am relegated. I am actively seeking a better living situation, but it is a much bigger pain than it should be.
I lived in New York City for five years just before coming to Dublin this past fall, and even there it is easier to find half-decent, vaguely afffordable housing than it is here. This is DUBLIN, people. Not London, not Paris, not New York: DUBLIN. I don't get it.
I came here with high hopes. I wanted so much to stay here initially, to build a life in what I thought was a better society than the one I left behind. It is telling, to me, that only one post was concerned with the quality-of-life that is sacrificed in this housing market. I'd hoped this place to be better than my own greedy country, and I am bitterly disappointed to learn that it is not; in fact in some ways, it is worse.
To quote an artist friend of mine: "Rent kills culture." Watch that yours doesn't die under this pressure, Dublin - it is dangerously close.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Anonymous Poster Date: Friday April 6, 2007 @11:43AM
could u explain me?
what's the reason to live in ireland! To spend all your salary to pay the rent? (If you can find salary anymore). In that case i would prefere to stay in my own home in my country without to work because i don't pay rents. What's the difirence between ireland of today and a 3rd world country? I am looking for a job about 3 months!!! I live in Dublin i give cvs everywhere and they have at last 50 cvs more! This happens also in all the south european countries with high unemployment rates. why they present this country as a place where you can find very easy job??? What is the easy. I have the possibility 2per cent to find a job!!! I can give you an answer. It was a good idea to win money all the politicians and the landlords. Where is ireland? where is irish culture? because at last is not in dublin. in dublin you have to walk among the plastic bottles and the napkins in the street! Is that culture? Where is the irish friendly and warm people. Maybe all have emigrated to usa and australia. This is not ireland. This is a fake west europe dirty joke!!! If james joice would see ireland of today i dont know but he woul never never never come back.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Anonymous Poster Date: Friday April 6, 2007 @01:12PM
i also came to dublin with a lot of hopes. I agree this is not a rich country. Is very poor!!! UNEJUCATED
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: anonymous Date: Saturday April 7, 2007 @10:00AM
I see you are not that EDUCATED yourself if you cannot even spell the word EDUCATED.rEFER TO LONGLEASES POST EARLIER,IF IRELAND IS SUCH A TERRIBLE PLACE AND MAKES YOU SO UNHAPPY THEN PISS OFF SOMEPLACE ELSE,I,M SURE WE,LL MANAGE
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agreePosted By: Antoine Date: Wednesday April 18, 2007 @10:00AM
I agree with all above comments re Rip Off Ireland. In fact I welcome it! You can have your overpriced, overrated, unaffordable property and all the hype that goes with it. I'm outta here.
Between property maddness, chronic traffic, pitiful infrastructure and general consumption obsession that marks the new Ireland, its all pretty sad to be honest. Born & raised in Ireland, I can happily say that after 30 years there, my next 30 years wont be there. Cheers for the education etc, I know enough to know there's a far better quality of life to be had in far away shores and it aint unemployment or famine driving people like me, its discussions like this. Best o luck to all spending 3hrs+ in traffic to return to overpriced, overrated accomodation as discussed. Here's one guy happy to walk. Point of note for the Celtic Tiger - Standard of living V Quality of Life - the Celtic Tiger's proving the inverse relationship prevails
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Re: agreePosted By: Kitty Date: Tuesday April 24, 2007 @06:50PM
I hear Canada is a good place,I am off there.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Holger Date: Saturday April 7, 2007 @12:12PM
well there are still places to rent s.th. for 600 Euro - last year we paid f****** 550 Euro for 1 "en suite" double bedroom in Blanchardstown sharing with up to 5 other people - no we have moved to the countryside to a little cottage for 600 - as soon as you have a car I highly recommend that - I really hope that bubble bursts soon - the situation is ridiculous and the property market is starting to create problems for the working market
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: JPT Date: Thursday April 12, 2007 @10:29PM
We remain in the fall out period from late 2006 when confusion on Stamp Duty, Interest Rate Hikes, "issues" with Management Companies and mixed messages from various interested parties resulted in more caution with both ftbs and investors. I believe any property in the bracket 300-450K will continue to be a good investment short or long term. Rents will increase with in all attractive areas as developments move outward. The market always had to adjust in the 1m+ bracket. Dublin prices have been overinflated for 3-5 years. 5-7% Rent increase is justified to cover inflation, interest rate hikes and wear and tear.I have an interest - I rent out a 2 bedroomed Apt in a low density development close to Cork City. Rent is 850 pm and has not increased in 15 months.I have no intention of selling or increasing the rent. Another rate hike may warrant 50 increase in 6 Months time. Don't panic.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Live Date: Friday April 13, 2007 @03:18PM
Well said Liz. Why do landlords stipulate renters must be 'professionals' ? I am a postgrad student as well and figured out how to package myself in order to get a nice place. Everyone here LIES Liz that is how anyone gets anywhere. That extends further. There are a few people who know what they are doing and are genuinely intelligent and educated etc. but most of what goes on in this country seems to be LIES and WHO YOU KNOW. I guess it's the same elsewhere, it's just more obvious here. I think it is still a good country (successful on a small scale can be very much more 'human' than more historically economically successful countries) but it is profoundly unsophisticated, and insecure about that fact. Ireland's definition comes from what it is NOT. Ireland is not America, Ireland is not Britian etc etc etc. So what is Ireland then? A postcolonial country still floundering and flipping about madly to find itself. Riddled with corruption, lacking 'heroes'. Does economic success mean a successful country? Why are so many young Irish men killing themselves then? Every man is for himself and his/her immediate group; nobody works together to achieve a common national good. Happiness and success can be found but like i said just in small groups, just as it has always been here. The balloon of the Celtic Tiger is filled with EU helium. The best: We know how to laugh at ourselves. The worst: there's always someone standing in the shadows, ready to spit.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Imagine Date: Tuesday April 17, 2007 @06:57PM
Rents go up because people can afford to pay more. The level of supply is unprecidented. Think about all the vacant units everywhere. People advance in their careers, and most people get partnership pay increases. More and more are being taken out of the tax net. Money markets are more sophisticated today so its easier to structure your finances over expected earnings all your life. I remember the days when I had the 4k in the bank for a week short of the necessary six months to get a lona and it was tough luck customer!. I dont care if you have 30% of the value saved of your property - its not in our bank long enought to give you the remaining 70%!.
Our polish colleagues are educated and I know are now starting to climb the corporate ladders. They are normal folk like most of us and their expecations are no less. As they climb those ladders - it will be harder for them to return to low wages. So my bet is they will stay. So rents will increase on average at a rate greater than inflation -as pay and wealth increases at greater rates than inflation.
Regards the quality of properties. That responsibility lies straight with those who set our planning terms. Investors merely behave in an economic fashion within the confines of the regulatory environment. Lazy planners and lazy public representatives created vaste swathes of lego land local authority estates in the 70s, developers and builders merely built them. Today is not much different as you say there is no room to have a quality of life in todays 2bed boxes. So these are the people we elect. Now that there is an election coming why not ask them whats their policy to ensure that affordable decent housing does not mean you have to live and commute from Timbucktoo.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Holger Date: Saturday April 14, 2007 @09:56AM
@JPT - surely everybody is talking about an inflation of 5% - always depends how this inflation is measured - I can`t see that as an argument for the latest rises in rents - I don`t think the landlords will be able to forwards these rises in interest rates to tenants fully - I am working for an American company in Blanchardstown - I can say the last annual payrise was tin the max 5% - more usual was 2% or nothing - so how will tenants be able to pay for alsways higher rents - this company hires German or Polish people for an annual salary of 23k or less because lately they are also coming from cotractors - this means they have cash 1600 per month - a normal Flat by German standards in Blanchardstown costs 1200 - thinking of a couple both wotking 3200 minus 1200 for the apartment - ok it works but in connection with some of the disadvantages in Ireland like bad infrastructure and the stoneage medical system - will be more and more difficult to attract Foreigners at least from Countries like Germnay, France, Itlay, Spain etc. - for Polish people this still makes a sense - when I would be a 24 year old Polish with average education I would definitely work in Ireland
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Sad bat true Date: Monday April 16, 2007 @05:53PM
The couples in Dublin cannot live together!!!
Everywhere in all the advertisments say
Do u know what's happening
Ireland is not a rich country. Was a country with a lot of jobs because the European companies choose to stay. This means trade economy. Now all the companies choose to leave this country. And the rents are going higher. Because the people prepare themself. This will not last for a long time.
You need reference to rent a house!!!! What a stupid!!! Reference from your previous employers if u want to find a job. But personally i couldn't go to bathroom. Because i didv't have reference.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Matt O Hoople Date: Wednesday April 18, 2007 @04:25PM
Really interesting reading so dispassionate and impersonal. Face facts this has nothing to do with Ireland directly it is a fact, after EU grants reduced, the country relied on a number of US multinational companies suitably incentivised to come to Ireland and invest, because of a highly educated workforce which was cheap by other European standards and in addition they would get access to the Euro markets. We had the expansion of the EU coincident with our 'Celtic Tiger' as we knew it and it embraced Eastern Europeans which were equally as well educated. They came here and worked some well qualified in humble conditions, now add this to the financial effect of the war prosecuted by a nutter President of the USA and the consequent slump due to debt it is clear that their high cost areas will be rationalised as they have alway done when they get in to a slump the question will be 'why pay Irish rates for a predominantly immigrant workforce when they can get them cheaper and with less aspirations in their home countries' so bye bye housing growth, yields, profits - hello unemployment, reposessions debt and our fall back financial tool-emigration.
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Geoff TuckerPosted By: Mr fluffy Date: Thursday April 19, 2007 @08:07PM
You sold your sold
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Holger Date: Friday April 20, 2007 @10:08AM
one of the things from my point of view as a foreigner very positive about Ireland is that the Irish state is not owing large sums of money - Germany has 7 trillion Euro debts with 4 trillion in private savings on the other side - from this point of view Ireland still has reserves to invest in infrastructure, medical system, education, culture and so on - but well some downfall on the property market would help make safe the long term prospering of Irish economy - on the other hand there seem to be some politcial interests in the property market as there a new offers for first time buyers financed by the state
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Anonymous Poster Date: Friday April 20, 2007 @02:57PM
i do not know what is happening. I also cannot find a job. I am searching abt 4 months and there is nothing. I am sure this happens because the rents are higher now. All the companies don't want more persons to work because they want to pay less. So that means less jobs. The rents are higher so that means that everybody student or no has to find a full time job to pay the rents and all the rest. That means again less jobs.
Be careful Irish people. The politicians and the landlords play a very bad game. The property market has already started to destroy everything. The unemployment has started again. Ireland deserves the best quality of life. For this quality all the Irish people has fought. But this is a fake fascist model. And sure it's life is very short if we don't move as fast as we can. The problem is not the immigrants as everybody could say. If i am not mistaken the Irish people was also immigrants 4 a long time. Every time after the first days of boom u could see immigrants. Noe what has happened. They are no more no less because a lot of people leave this country. The way is wrong. Personally i had 4 friend. One was Irish. Both have left the country because they were not satisfied. They choose to live in Scotland, and Australia. Does it sounds goo?
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Mott O'Hoople Date: Monday April 23, 2007 @12:44PM
Nothing new here, from the fabled dingy bedsits of Rathmines/Rathgar in the 60's ripping off Irish rural people, to the one bed flats of to day in the sticks, ripping off non Irish people - greed is a great sustainer and should be a source of National pride - in fact there may be a grant available to teach it.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Jer Date: Tuesday April 24, 2007 @06:59PM
I am away also, off to Canada, got a great job there. Tired of slavery in good old Eire. There has got to be more to life than the thread mill here each day. I find the thread mill picking up speed, mortgage rising, gas rising, comuting longer. I am beat. No fun anymore. Cheers to you all!
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Anonymous Poster Date: Wednesday April 25, 2007 @01:36PM
a lot of people not satisfied
That means that Ireland has failed
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Bob Date: Saturday April 28, 2007 @01:31AM
An American's perspective: I looked for property in Ireland in early '06. The numbers made little sense to me for investment purposes. Instead purchased an investment property in a Belfast suburb. Now I looked to go back to N.I. to potentially acquire additional and their ratio for investment properties are now too high for me.
The point is... for living standards it appears to me that the major city of any country with a viable economy tends to become the least affordable. The particular country is not even relevant. The situations described above can be said for most any major city,i.e., London, NYC, Chicago, San Francisco, etc. This is not pleasant. It may not even be fair. But it is inevitable cost of living increase goes "hand in glove" with the financial success of the country in question.
This lack of affordibility spreads further through the suburbs as time goes by.
Can Ireland stay economically vibrant? I recommend you invest in infrastructure. Find other competitive advantages. Look to Korea, Japan, and other post WWII economies for examples on how to succeed after the cheap labor/educated population loses its' leverage.
Good luck, and God bless. I recently visited Ireland for vacation and found it spectacularly beautiful.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: MOONSUN Date: Sunday April 29, 2007 @11:44AM
i live in a flat in Dublin3. There is a problem with the waste pipes and the dirty water runs in our backyard just behind my window? it smells and sure things is dangeroous for my health. I called the landlord to sort fixed it and he said that the problem will be resolved as soon as possible. but at least 2 weeks nobody came and the dirty waters still runs. The house has only 2 windows. It's dark and every day i there is a war between me and the spiders. The toilet look like 30 years beffore. Sure after a little while i need meditation 9and it cost 45 euro in a good case). I need to pay every month 850 euro!!! Does it sound good??? what's your oppinion??? could someone appologise???
Maybe no.........
This is the real situation
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: nomoretears Date: Sunday April 29, 2007 @11:52AM
if i am not mistaked the irish people were suffering to much when they had to emigrate in england because of the high rents. Now what happens in ireland. all the poor people that come from overseas to find a job they suffer like the irish because of the high rents. hypocrisy. but prepare yourself. someone who doesn't learn from the past has no future. i wish this fake boom will end as soon as possible.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: Anonymous Poster Date: Monday May 9, 2011 @04:42PM
I bet you are a foreigner? The only sensible sane people living in this country during the boom were foreigners.
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Re: The Daft Report March 2007Posted By: firstname.lastname@example.com Date: Friday April 27, 2007 @09:03PM
We live in Dublin 4 and directly oppposite U.C.D. belfield, have a single room with study facilities, TV Video, use of microwave and washing facilities, yet your report is apartments and studios,....... Do you have an average rent one should ask for this. There is also evening Central heating in the winter months andhot water available in the summer time. We also have a similiar room but only with RTE TV Stations..
I would appreciate your advice on this.
thank you
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