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|Baroque has been listed as a level-3 vital article in Art. If you can improve it, please do. This article has been rated as C-Class.
|Baroque is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
|This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on November 4, 2004.
|Current status: Former featured article
|This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
|Wikipedia Version 1.0 Editorial Team
|(Rated C-class)
- 1 Old
- 2 baroque - Handel
- 3 Removing introduced waffle
- 4 Potential nomination for removal as a featured article
- 5 Format
- 6 Opening paragraph
- 7 Capitalization
- 8 Erudite verbiage obfusticates cognition
- 9 Hi Mimi =)
- 10 Jan Blazej Santini (Giovanni Santini)
- 11 Leonardo as an vanguard?
- 12 Help me!
- 13 Poor article
- 14 Removed a paragraph
- 15 Baroque fashion
- 16 'ancient' Portuguese noun?
- 17 "Bernini's Cornaro chapel: the complete work of art" - Incorrect picture?
- 18 The Metaphysicals
- 19 Congratulations
- 20 No Citations!
- 21 quit it with the "citation needed"
- 22 No definition
- 23 Removed bit
- 24 Encyclopedic language
- 25 Edit request on 15 April 2012
- 26 Understanding
- 27 Variety of English
- 28 External links modified
- 29 External links modified
Well, I am confused. According to the log:
(diff) Baroque 12:54 pm (2 changes) [*removed "characterized by intricate detail", added some architects] . . . . . MichaelTinkler
This removal is confusing. As far as I know (in literature, music, and architecture) Baroque style is always characterised by intricate detail.
so why did Michael remove this?
well, because "intricate detail" in the field of art and architecture is far too unsubtle to be of any use. I doubt it's useful in music, either. Renaissance and Neoclassical art and architecture are subject to as much detail as Baroque. What do you mean by 'detail' that is useful? --MichaelTinkler
I don't know the protocol for handling /Talk pages, but I'm surprised that you think its okay to remove a link to the talk page when you answer a question and then ask me a question... The point of a /Talk link is to show that there is some discussion that may not be appropriate on the main page. by removing the link, you have basically said my question or opinion has no value.
It isn't the issue of detail that makes the Baroque style important. it's the intricate nature of the detail that makes it important. If fractals had existed in the Baroque times, they would have been called Baroque as well.
Intricacy as opposed to simplicity is an easily recognized characteristic, and may be applied to many endeavors of life. And it is characterstic of the baroque style.
whoops - I didn't mean to delete the Talk link! I apologize very much for that.
Well, 'intricacy' (though I believe he uses the word 'complexity') vs. 'simplicity' is one of the 5 (I think it's 5) difference Wolfflin identifies for the differences between Classic (his word for High Renaissance) and Baroque. That, of course, elides Mannerism. Lots and lots of baroque architecture (the area I know best) is literally quite simple in terms of surface detail - I'm thinking of Bernini's Piazza San Pietro and the surfaces of Borromini's San'Ivo. One can, of course, oppose Guarino Guarini's Chapel of the Holy Shroud in Turin, but he's a lot less characteristic than either of those two Roman examples, or Wren's St. Paul in London.
I would read 'intricate detail' to mean 'fussy'. That is much more a characteristic of Rococo.
Also, the word 'detail' has a variety of meanings in different art forms and media. I sincerely don't think it's a particularly useful introductory sentence to what will eventually be a fairly long article! --MichaelTinkler
I agree that Rococo is intricate as well. When I checked out my definitions at www.dictionary.com, I found that some authors (obviously some of those I have read) equate the two styles. Baroque is known for intricate ornamentation and I'm not sure what that difference (in a general sense of the word) between ornamentation and details might suggest.
Sources I've just read say that late Baroque merge into early Roccoco. And that in some countries, particularly Protestant ones, Baroque did not become as "wild". However I will protest any description of Baroque as simple. -rmhermen
Renaissance art in many media is as 'ornamented' or 'intricate' as the Baroque. I'm thinking (just off hand) of Cellini's metalwork and in fact any finished bronze or gold work of the High or Late Renaissance. They're as covered with 'linear detail' as anything in the Baroque. There is also little difference in the level of *surface detail* in the ornamental nature of, say, renaissance and baroque column capitals.
Please note, I'm not denying there's a difference. There is a stunning difference between a dry, rather dull capital in 1450 or 1500 and something created by Guarino Guarini or Borromini in the 17th century. One is 'renaissance' and the other is 'baroque'. However, it is not a matter of the number of lines cut in the leaves. It is a matter of a sense of animation, a flowing line, a liveliness.
Similarly, there is no less dependence on geometry in the baroque than in the renaissance. The difference is that the preferred geometric figures are no longer Regular figures (circle, square), but instead tend toward the oval, the ellipse (Piazza San Pietro), the 6-pointed star (St. Ivo della Sapienza, Rome). That is a *characteristic* difference, but it has nothing to with surfaces. Borromini's masonry is quite conservative -- it's his geometry that's over the top.
I guess my basic problem may go back to the idea that "Wikipedia is not a dictionary" (see FAQ) - we don't even need to start an entry with a simplification. Of course, I'm sure you meant it only as a beginning, and you and I have spent all this time going back and forth when we could have been adding Baroque entries to be elaborated by others, too. Oh, well - an afternoon (I'm GMT minus 4) not badly spent. --MichaelTinkler
not to worry, rmhermen - I'll protest any description of Modernist Architecture as 'simple', too. A Miesian glass box may look simple from 1000 feet in a photograph.... ---MichaelTinkler.
Is there a reason that baroque art starts in the early 1600's but baroque music in the late 1600's? What about architecture? ---rmhermen
yes. See Periodization. These stylistic terms are very very very messy. The Renaissance starts at different dates for different media, and at different dates in different countries for the same medium. I have real trouble with the Cultural movement entry because of this.
Style itself is very very very messy: not everyone in 1967 was a hippie. Baroque doesn't begin on April 7, 1609. Styles are rarely completely in control of works of art and literature any any time. The recent inclusion of metaphysical poets as 'Baroque' shows that "Mannerist' is not an easy concept to grasp either... Wetman 22:35, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)
These paragraphs seem inconsistent:
'Baroque'...is a French translation of the Italian word "Barocco"; some authors believe it comes from the Portuguese "Barroco" (irregular pearl, or false jewel - notably, an ancient similar word, "Barlocco" or "Brillocco", is used in Roman dialect for the same meaning), or from a now obsolete Italian "Baroco" (that in logical Scholastica was used to indicate a syllogism with weak content).
and at the end:
Baroque pearls are natural pearls that deviate from the usual, regular forms. In particular, they are pearls that do not have an axis of rotation. It was this use of the term for irregular pearls that eventually lent its name to the baroque movement.
So is this fact or theory? Somebody please clarify. Palefire
- If baroque entered the German languages as a nautical term in the 1500s for pearls that were like diamonds in the rough (from its constituent parts bar (German for raw or rough) and roco (a nautical pidgin word for German reich (rich)), and migrated back to the Romance languages as the Dutch and Low German princes grew in power, it is easy to see how the word applied to pearls whose natural beauty could be admitted despite the presence of a minor blemish here and there. (And pearls that are meant for stringing need a couple places for drilling, so a blemish or two in the right places, in those respects, is actually a good thing, and quite marketable in spite of them.)
I don't like the position of the picture, to the left of the TOC like that...I tried to fix it, but the caption wouldnt display. the caption, by the way, doesn't make much sense --Tothebarricades.tk 02:21, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)
baroque - Handel[edit]
his first name should be written either in German; Friedrich, or English Frederic, but not Frideric, as you have it. He was born in Germany was court musician to King Georg and had a fall-out with him. Went to England, but, as fate will have it, Georg became king of England as George I (the first) he made up with him with the watermusic.
It is also importnant to write his actual name: "Händel" or "Haendel" not just Handel. Handel is simply a different name.
For some reason, Handel's middle name is generally anglicized as 'Frideric', rather than the more usual 'Frederick'. I guess that was how he himself chose to anglicize it.
Sdoerr 14:14, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Removing introduced waffle[edit]
Originated "somewhere between 1550 and 1600"A mention of a "proto-Baroque" has been made. No Baroque in 1550. That's Mannerism we're looking at. El Greco is not Baroque. Baroque is not a movement in art history it's a movement in art itself.
I have edited "hidden" links to make them explicit. A link like 17th Century Philosophy linked in the text as "The Age of Reason" just compounds the editor's own confusion. Will Durant entitled that volume The Age of Reason Begins.
I didn't take out this: "The Baroque was defined by Woelffrin as the age where the oval replaced the circle as the center of composition, that centralization replaced balance, and that coloristic and "painterly" effects began to become more prominent." The critic Heinrich Wolfflin was a long time ago. And this misremembers a second-hand retelling of something Wolfflin might have said in some particular context.
We need more images to make points come alive. I found the Rubens among UnusedImages here. Wetman 01:13, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Potential nomination for removal as a featured article[edit]
Hi, this article no longer meets a number of the criteria for a featured article. 1.) It does not cite its sources. Best would be to add the most trusted resources in the field, some print resources especially, but also online references are better than none. Those sources would likely help with good material to further improve the article anyway. 2.) It does not have a lead section 3.) The images, while great, may not all be freely licensed properly for Wikipedia. The Web gallery of art states: "The Web Gallery of Art is copyrighted as a database. Images and documents downloaded from this database can only be used for educational and personal purposes. Distribution of the images in any form is prohibited without the authorization of their legal owner." That may be an incorrect claim, but that needs to be dealt with carefully.
I really hate to [[Wikipedia:Featured_article_removal_candidates|nominate an article for removal as a featured article, so I thought I would ask for help here first. Hopefully someone here can handle this. But because I believe all featured articles need to meet the same standards, I will nominate it if no one is able to fix these issues. Thanks - Taxman 23:27, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)
- It's a good thing the criteria for Featured Article are being raised. Articles like Crushing by elephant and Academia were hugely improved after being exposed upon the Main Page. A subsection here, The idea of "Baroque" ought to cover the main literature. Photos of sculpture may not be covered by the standard template, viz: {{PD-art}}. Why not just remove the nomination? --Wetman 01:09, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- I don't understand, remove what nomination? I did not want to nominate it at Wikipedia:Featured article removal candidates at all until the contributors to this article had had a chance at least to fix the issues I noticed. - Taxman 14:11, Oct 27, 2004 (UTC)
Someone has put all the caredully-balanced illustrations in a strip down the right-hand side. Is this progress? --Wetman 14:26, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- I did it - sorry, but I didn't think the original layout was at all "carefully balanced". I don't like left-floated images at the best of times, and the original arrangement was quite messy and disrupted the flow of the text. The different sizes and the right-left combination in the lead section section and after the TOC were particularly jarring, I thought - there was a narrow band of text one or two words wide between the images in the lead section. -- ALoan (Talk) 15:02, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- Good work, I do feel that not keeping all of them on the right makes the article visually more attractive, easier on the eyes. I have started on a new lead section and moved the old text to its own section. The lead section could use some more text and the new "Evolution" section probably could be structured a bit better as well (maybe also under a different heading). -- [[User:Solitude|Solitude\talk]] 15:39, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC)
Opening paragraph[edit]
... around 1600 in Rome, Italy So that's not Rome, New York, after all, eh. My goodness, this certainly leaves no room for doubt in our minds! In later centuries --that would be during the 18th century and the 19th century: which manifestation of Baroque is intended here? ... a sense of blurring different art movements I'm certainly getting the blurring part, but is "art movements" really what's meant? --Wetman 01:31, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Is the inconsistent capitalization of Baroque/baroque intentional - or does it need to be made consistent? Kdammers 09:15, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
- No inference intended, I think. A matter of style: neoclassical, classic, renaissance, romantic, rococo art. Or Neoclassical, Renaissance etc. Uncapitalized as a baroque fountain, but capitalized as a fountain that fully expresses the Baroque. A broque pearl, but the Baroque style? Maybe it's immediate context rather than an Olympian consistency. --Wetman
- Well, then maybe we should try to put some order into the page. In any case, for me, a baroque fountain is one that is flamboyant whereas a Baroque fountain is one that is in the Baroque style &/or from the Baroque period. I think that IF the article is to have variations, then they should be meaningful (lest they otherwise confuse). Kdammers 01:48, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
- I agree. Consistency within an article is always good. --Wetman 04:21, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
Done. The capital is not required for the period, but widely used and i think always accepted. IMO it is also desirable for clarity, and i'm adding a sentence about "barrocco" that will use "baroque". --Jerzy·t 16:04, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- "Baroque" as an adjective should be confined to nouns where there is no confusion about the Baroque style: baroque politics, baroque fears etc. If it is a manmade object, "baroque" always means Baroque. There are plenty of other adjectives that connote exhuberance, extravagance, animation, etc. --Wetman 19:02, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- That's a great idea, but you're not talking about the English language. The word "baroque" with a mandatory lower case B has dicdefs like "characterized by grotesqueness". English was not designed to guaranteed disambiguation.
- I was merely offering the usage of those people who would not characterize a Fabergé egg as "baroque" merely because it was elaborate, when it was in fact neoclassical in design. I am indeed talking about the English language, you see. --Wetman 21:15, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- I may still be confused. On my continuing assumption that this is discussion pursuant to editing the page, rather than idle conversation, i suggest (since i have trouble imagining it) that you propose or boldly edit in wording for the article that makes your point in a way that is useful to WP users. (IMO, what you describe is a useful, even laudible, habit in cases where the context allows for confusion (talking to people interested in Faberge who don't know his era, or don't know an era for the Baroque age?) for those who find it natural. But as a listener/reader, you don't need to know about the habit to profit from it.) The only purpose in mentioning it is to urge adopting it -- IMO unencyclopedic.
Erudite verbiage obfusticates cognition[edit]
"If Mannerism was a first breach with Renaissance, Baroque was an opposed language. It represented the evidence of the crisis of Renaissance neoclassical schemes— the psychological pain of Man, disbanded after the Copernican and the Lutheran revolutions, in search of solid anchors, in search of a proof of an ultimate human power, was to be found in both the art and architecture of the Baroque period. "
I hope I am not the only one who thinks of this part as shit in a chocolate wrapper.
I have sat down with a peice of paper to try and piece together what it means. There still remain several things which are ambiguous;
- solid anchors to what?
- What is "ultimate human power"? I thought, 'human divinity', i.e., something which makes us like God.. :S
- Psychological pain of Man? What, angst?
This is my amendment:
If Mannerism was a first breach with Renaissance, Baroque was an opposed language. The psychological pain of Man -- a theme disbanded after the Copernican and the Lutheran revolutions in search of solid anchors, a proof of an "ultimate human power" -- was to be found in both the art and architecture of the Baroque period.
I'm not an expert in this subject, there may be something I don't know. But I've made a start at least, I hope :)
There are also several other parts of the article which are excessively pompously worded, particularly in the descriptions of the artworks; I'm hesitant about changing it all but - someone who knows this stuff, how about making it a little more accessible?
Gubby 16:28, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
In fact--there is a great deal that says very little, very badly. The first two paragraphs of the "literature and philosophy section are terrible. For one thing, they've obviously been translated, badly, from another language--see the double use of "research" when "search" is obviously intended, and various inappropriate definite articles. These things in themselves could be fixed pretty easily. But not much seems to be being said here, and that little is not terribly informative. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 17:51, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
- A quick check of that section revealed that everything in it had been challenged as unreferenced since July 2009. I did appear to have been badly translated from Italian or Portuguese, possibly by machine, which in turn raises the question of what it was translated from. It may not be the only rubbish that needs taking out, but it must surely have been at the top of the list, and has been deleted. Thanks for calling attention to this.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 17:58, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
Hi Mimi =)[edit]
I don't know how to remove it from the end of the article. It looks nice indeed, but I quess it's not an organic part of the article.--Mathae 21:38, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
Jan Blazej Santini (Giovanni Santini)[edit]
Dear all, I've just noticed that there is not a mention in the whole Baroque Architecture section about Santini whose churches and monasteries are currently a source of wonder as well as detailed studies. Come to the Czech Republic and see his (Krtiny close to Brno or Church at Zdar nad Sazavou monastery). Ondrejs 10:05, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
Leonardo as an vanguard?[edit]
Could it be argued that Leonardo da Vinchi was a founder of this artistic tradition? Looking at quite a few of his works lately such as The Virgin of the Rocks and the equestrian project for Francesco Sforza(incomplete) it seems to me that the gesticular style of baroque could be represented in his works. Though I am not thoroughly familiar with this style it is a thought I had upon reading this article.
- Not really, much of Leonardo had to do with elaborate compositions and other things that required a huge ammount of intelect, while baroque had to do more with feelings and to try to compose them by the means of light and the dramatism present in the painting, anything BUT intelect (as it was discouraged by the church).
Help me![edit]
Hey, does anyone think that could help me answer some questions. I'm having a bit of trouble finding the answers alone. # BROWNSAY SOMETHING!!! | 00:36, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
- Maybe in some of Leonardo's drawings of fighting figures. You'd find the germ of Baroque more clearly in Michelangelo. --Wetman 03
- 02, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
- thanks, although I don't quite understand what you're getting at here but anyway, I've got it figured out now # BROWNSAY SOMETHING!!! | 14:01, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
Poor article[edit]
The Baroque went from 1600 until?, the causes were? (socioeconomic, historical and the perspective from modern historians). There is some information in the article, but its so scattered in unnecesary sections that it makes a hard reading for the casual visitor. (Anonymous)
- I can think of four or five vividly represented aspects of the sculpture at the right that demonstratethat "baroque" is a style, not, as we are owlishly informed at the opening of the Wikipedia article, a "period." It would be a hard row upstream to try to write such an article, however: cries of "original research" from the uninformed, etc.... --Wetman 06:54, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
Removed a paragraph[edit]
"In recent history, western European civilizations have faced three critical questions (in chronological order): Which religion to follow; which government to uphold; and how to bring equality to everyone. The matter of religion was resolved after Martin Luther, John Calvin, and others initiated a Protestant Reformation that gave many European monarchs an excuse to become more independent from The Holy Roman Empire. This led to a Counter Reformation by the Roman Catholic Church which included a push for new forms of art that exalted the Church's holy position."
I have removed this paragraph because it seems, in my mind, to violate NPOV when it decided what the three "critical questions" in history were. Also, the statement that "the matter of religion was resolved" is factually incorrect. Martin Luther and the Protestant Reformation led to more disagreement about which religion to follow, not less. The rest of the information in this paragraph is repeated in the next paragraph. Wood Thrush 23:33, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
- I do not necessarily agree with your rationale, but this paragraph sucks in any case. Thanks for the removal.SauliH 05:30, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Baroque fashion[edit]
Are there any types of fashion (clothes) that were worn during the Baroque period? Angie Y. 19:54, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
'ancient' Portuguese noun?[edit]
The word 'ancient' here jars with me: I don't think a linguistic specialist would use it. Apart from anything else, 'ancient Portuguese' would actually be Latin! Maybe the sentence was written by a non-English speaker in whose language the equivalent of 'ancient' is used of languages that in English are normally designated 'Old' (e.g. 'Old French' = 'ancien français' in French). Sdoerr 14:24, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
"Bernini's Cornaro chapel: the complete work of art" - Incorrect picture?[edit]
I was just wondering why in the section about the Cornaro Chapel there is a picture of the Menshivok Tower? It is Baroque architecture, but has absolutely nothing to do with the Cornaro Chapel, the Santa Maria della Vittoria, or the Ecstasy of St. Theresa as far as I can tell. Is it relating to the section below on Architecture, or is there some other reason? I would just change it, but given the amount of work having gone into this article, and it's previous featured status, I wanted to double check that there wasn't some good reason for the picture being there. ColinWhelan 17:02, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
The Metaphysicals[edit]
It seems odd to identify the metaphysical poets with Baroque art when an article elsewhere in Wikipedia associates them with mannerist painters (mannerism preceded the Baroque). The link between the metaphysicals and the Baroque painters may make sense in terms of chronology, but in terms of style, the link to mannerism seems more compelling. This query isn't really limited to the reference to metaphysical poetry, though; it suggests that much of the literature referenced here--notably Marinismo, but also conceptismo and culterano (elsewhere culteranismo) should not be thought of as Baroque. Why in God's name should Cervantes be thought of as a "Baroque" author? The sense here seems to be simply because he was writing in the seventeenth century, but if we call Cervantes "Baroque," it ought to be on the basis of style. atom33 4 July 2007
Don't know who wrote most of it; but despite the criticisms above, most of which reflect the imprecision of terms such as Baroque, Mannerism etc., and which the article merely reflects itself, just thought I should say that whoever wrote seems to have an enviable understanding of what they're talking about, and a real gift for exposition.
No Citations![edit]
The top paragraph as shown here:
Evolution of the Baroque
Beginning around the year 1600, the demands for new art resulted in what is now known as the Baroque. The canon promulgated at the Council of Trent (1545–63) by which the Roman Catholic Church addressed the representational arts by demanding that paintings and sculptures in church contexts should speak to the illiterate rather than to the well-informed, is customarily offered as an inspiration of the Baroque, which appeared, however, a generation later. This turn toward a populist conception of the function of ecclesiastical art is seen by many art historians as driving the innovations of Caravaggio and the Carracci brothers, all of whom were working in Rome at that time.
is practically word for word from this website:
Not sure who is not citing who here but at least the wiki article should have some citation to where the paragraph came from. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 22:26, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
- You seem confused. It is, of course, the other way around. Maybe you didn't make it all the way to the bottom of that page, where you find this disclaimer:
- Adapted from the Wikipedia article "Evolution of the Baroque", under the G.N U Free Docmentation License. Please also see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki
- Gene Nygaard (talk) 16:07, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
quit it with the "citation needed"[edit]
generally known facts do not need citations. Where are you going to cite from anyway -- the All Mighty? You guys all need to get laid. --18.104.22.168 (talk) 20:35, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
- At any rate, if there are to be tags, they should be in the body of the article, not in the lead! I have removed a number of tags between one and two years old, which obviously weren't going to be addressed anyway, and therefore served only to make the article look ugly. 22.214.171.124 (talk) 09:24, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks for calling my attention to the very old tags, some of which I remember placing there myself. However, it isn't sufficient simply to remove the tags; the unverified claims should also be deleted. I shall do this now—Jerome Kohl (talk) 18:07, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
No definition[edit]
No definition, no unifying artistic characteristics, nothing. You can read the whole article and not know what baroque is normally considered to be characterized by. The French article says clearly "Il touche tous les domaines artistiques, sculpture, peinture, littérature, architecture et musique et se caractérise par l'exagération du mouvement, la surcharge décorative, les effets dramatiques, la tension, l'exubérance et la grandeur parfois pompeuse. Il poursuit le mouvement artistique de la Renaissance artistique, le néoclassicisme lui succède à partir de la seconde moitié du XVIIIe siècle." The Russian article says the same, and that's what I've learned at the university, too. But I guess this "conventional" description has since been rejected by academics who need to prove that they discover something completely new each year to keep their salaries. That was also necessary as a way to get rid of all kinds of old stereotypes, inaccurate prejudices and especially of the foolish idea that it is possible to generalize and understand anything at all; another great advantage is that students and the laity are guaranteed to forget this kind of formless disorganized information immediately. Back to the Baroque and even further back we shall go! --188.8.131.52 (talk) 21:22, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
Precisely, I suspected that the conventional description must have been present in some form or another; that someone has deleted it; and that the exchange in the previous section on this talk page was precisely about its deletion. The IP pointed out that the description was generally accepted and shouldn't be tagged - in response, a Wikipedian with a PhD and peer-reviewed publications in art just deleted the description [1], because apparently he didn't like it, presumably because the fashion in his circles has changed. You see, they have discovered the supreme truth recently, namely that nothing in this world can be defined, especially not in a rational way that the great unwashed without PhDs can understand. More importantly, even the previous existence of a definition/description must be obliterated - instead of, say, people mentioning the previous definition/description and then providing and attributing the recent objections against it and, hopefully, the new accepted definition/description - if there luckily exists one. --22.214.171.124 (talk) 21:39, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
- When a person looks up "Baroque" in Wikipedia, they want to know the one defining essence of the concept. What essential characteristic, property, quality, or predicate of a thing makes it baroque? In order to distinguish it from Mannerism, Classicism, Late Baroque, Romanticism, Pre-Raphaelitism, Rococo and other classifications, it is imperative that the essence of Baroque be known. This assumes that we are not satisfied with Wittgensteinian Family Resemblances or multiple essences. The opening paragraph seems to fail in this respect. It claims that there are two essences of baroque: "exaggerated motion and clear, easily interpreted detail ." This is obviously false. Many works from other periods contain exaggerated motion and clear, easily interpreted detail. Many works of the Baroque period do not contain such characteristics. Therefore, these properties are accidents, not essences. The characteristic of being irregular, in contrast to being unadorned and simple, seems to be more of a definition of the word "Baroque." Naturally, not all artworks of that time period displayed irregular adornment, but many of the important works showed this quality.Lestrade (talk) 18:06, 10 May 2012 (UTC)Lestrade
- Someone has taken the extraordinary step of providing a citation for that lede paragraph. (Ordinarily, the lede is meant to summarize the article's content, so that verification may safely be assumed to be found elsewhere.) Since I do not have immediate access to the cited source, I can only presume that it confirms everything in this paragraph, even things that are "obviously false". Under these circumstances, it is incumbent upon any editor who disagrees with such a statement to provide a source verifying this opposing point of view. If, on the other hand, the source does not verify the claim, then it should be corrected accordingly.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 18:25, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
- Like nearly all our articles on big artistic/cultural movements it is extremely poor, but as 30 word summations go I think the one in the lead is not too bad. The 2nd para is more worrying. That Vermeer can be said to fall under "Baroque painting" is one of art history's little paradoxes. Johnbod (talk) 19:02, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
- When a person looks up "Baroque" in Wikipedia, they want to know the one defining essence of the concept. What essential characteristic, property, quality, or predicate of a thing makes it baroque? In order to distinguish it from Mannerism, Classicism, Late Baroque, Romanticism, Pre-Raphaelitism, Rococo and other classifications, it is imperative that the essence of Baroque be known. This assumes that we are not satisfied with Wittgensteinian Family Resemblances or multiple essences. The opening paragraph seems to fail in this respect. It claims that there are two essences of baroque: "exaggerated motion and clear, easily interpreted detail ." This is obviously false. Many works from other periods contain exaggerated motion and clear, easily interpreted detail. Many works of the Baroque period do not contain such characteristics. Therefore, these properties are accidents, not essences. The characteristic of being irregular, in contrast to being unadorned and simple, seems to be more of a definition of the word "Baroque." Naturally, not all artworks of that time period displayed irregular adornment, but many of the important works showed this quality.Lestrade (talk) 18:06, 10 May 2012 (UTC)Lestrade
No one, after reading the "lede," let alone the article, would be able to answer the question, "What, exactly, is Baroque?" I am assuming that answering the question involves the use of non-academic, common language that is devoid of intentional obfuscation.Lestrade (talk) 19:53, 10 May 2012 (UTC)Lestrade
- Perhaps this is true, I don't know, but I agree with Johnbod that the lede is not that bad, by Wikipedia art-history standards. The only issue I wished to address is that there appears to be a verifying source attached to that first paragraph, which complicates the issue of rewriting it to reflect "the truth" (whatever that may be). I have not checked the edit history of this article, but I would not be surprised to learn that this was added after an acrimonious debate over precisely the question, "What the heck is a baroque, anyway?"—Jerome Kohl (talk) 21:02, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
Isn't that the fundamental question? With regard to verifying sources, what if there are several verifying sources, each one different from the other? Does a Wikipedia article list all of the various sources? Each source would be the product of a unique, individual perspective. There might be as many perspectives as there are people on the planet, each with their own viewpoint or "frame of reference."Lestrade (talk) 22:09, 10 May 2012 (UTC)Lestrade
- Of course that is the fundamental question, and there is no doubt that this article could do a better job of answering it. With respect to verifying sources, it is standard practice (on Wikipedia as in scholarship generally) not to pick and choose only the evidence that supports one point of view among many. It is regarded as only fair to present conflicting viewpoints, with the best available references, so that the reader may be in a position to decide for him/herself which to believe. The tricky bit is in making a distinction between highly reliable and not-so-reliable sources (the really unreliable sources are much easier to deal with). It seems to me in the present case, however, that you are objecting not so much to one viewpoint over another, but rather to what you think is a poorly phrased or badly framed definition. If the offending paragraph puts things less clearly than the cited source, then that paragraph needs work; if it represents the source perfectly but is still opaque, then perhaps a better source that expresses things more plainly needs to be found. Conflicts between and among sources are inevitable, but not usually as dire as you are suggesting. If there were no consensus about the meaning of the term "Baroque", then there would be little point in having an article about it.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 23:00, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
- I agree with this. Jerome and I are working on Romanticism, which makes a useful comparator, and I'm also working on Neoclassicism. Encapsulating these large movements succinctly is difficult, and tends to involve quoting a number of different perspectives. I will eventually get round to Baroque, but in the meantime you are welcome to give it a try - there is no shortage of scholarship on the subject. Johnbod (talk) 04:21, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
Names such as "Baroque," "Romanticism," "Neoclassicism," "Mannerism," and "Rococo," are signs in our language that were conventionally chosen to designate certain concepts. [citation needed] The concepts were abstractions that were made by collecting perceptions and subtracting all of the accidental qualities and retaining the essential qualities. [citation needed] In order to understand the meaning of the word "Baroque," some source has to tell us what is the essential characteristic of all things that are Baroque. This essential characteristic cannot be shared with other concepts. [citation needed] If it were shared, then it would not be definitional. [citation needed] What is the essential characteristic of things that are called Baroque? There may be more than one characteristic whose combination uniquely characterizes the Baroque. For example, the Baroque may be a special combination of artistic products that are both "irregular" and "ornamental." In any case, the essence of the Baroque must be communicated by the article. I know that such a demand for clarity is contrary to academic tradition. [citation needed] It is in the interest of certain groups to maintain a kind of hieratic, priestly language that is incomprehensible to those who are outside of the guild and who use demotic, lay language. [citation needed] But Wikipedia has no interest in maintaining job security for professors. [citation needed] Therefore, the article should give interested readers a way to know what is Baroque as opposed to other art classifications. Also, it may be true that the differences between art periods are not strictly demarcated. Does Baroque become Rococo when one more shell is added to a decoration? A convenient way of separating art periods is by using dates. We can say that as of midnight, January 1, 1600, all artworks were no longer Manneristic but were considered to be Baroque. If we do not want to rely on such a way of distinguishing art periods, then the article must tell us another way that Baroque can be known. [citation needed]Lestrade (talk) 13:27, 11 May 2012 (UTC)Lestrade
Jerome stated that "The tricky bit is in making a distinction between highly reliable and not-so-reliable sources." Wouldn't such a distinction be an expression of a viewpoint? As such, it would be a mere personal opinion or subjective claim. How would anyone know that I am wrong if I were to state that Arthur de Gobineau or Wilhelm Reich are highly reliable sources? What is the criterion?Lestrade (talk) 20:25, 11 May 2012 (UTC)Lestrade
- My point exactly. We have some fairly good guidelines about what marks a source as entirely unreliable (or at least highly suspect), but it is easy to criticize a preference for one plausible source over another as being nothing more than bald prejudice. Ultimately, I suppose it comes down to consensus, just as it does in the world of academic publishing.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 21:37, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
Consensus means that quantity trumps quality. However, for example, Thomas Jefferson alone would have been more intellectually reliable than any roomful of people (See J. F. Kennedy's remark of 29 April 1962). In that case, quality trumps quantity. Making a distinction between highly reliable and not-so-reliable sources is similar to making a distinction between essential and non-essential properties of the Baroque. Both involve an individual judgment that is made by a person of authority. Thus, it comes down to a subjective opinion that, by convention, is taken by other people to be an objective truth. A Wikipedia article about the Baroque must be able to clearly and definitively state the meaning of the word "Baroque" as it is applied to the artistic productions in Europe 400 years ago. A ninth grader should be able to read the article and then identify a Baroque painting from a half dozen paintings from various art periods. Lestrade (talk) 23:18, 11 May 2012 (UTC)Lestrade
- Why don't you stop telling the non-existent maintainers of this article what to do & have a go at it yourself? Johnbod (talk) 23:20, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
- Those who can, do; those who can't, take a vow of silence.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 23:34, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
- Why don't you stop telling the non-existent maintainers of this article what to do & have a go at it yourself? Johnbod (talk) 23:20, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
"The rest is silence." (Hamlet, V, ii, 372) I can't alter the article and then watch someone simply undo my alteration. I'm surprised that I was so windy above. Omertà.Lestrade (talk) 14:13, 12 May 2012 (UTC)Lestrade
Removed bit[edit]
The Baroque style is noted as first being developed by Seljuk Turks, according to a number of academics like John Hoag.[6]
This statement is quite odd! I cannot help but think that whoever wrote it here has misquoted or misunderstood something, because it is hardly correct.
It says that The Baroque style (an essentially European style using European architectural forms) was developed by Seljuk Turks (who used the forms and decorations common to Islamic architecture). This statement ignores the Late Roman architecture, ignores the Renaissance, ignores Alberti, ignores Michelangelo, ignores Giulio Romano..... and gives the creation of Baroque to the Turks.
I don't have Hoag's book, so I don't know how it was actually worded. I do know that the inaccurate statement has spread itself across the internet.
OK, what is the real story? In the 16th century Seljuk architects, who normally used typically Islamic forms and motifs, started adopting Renaissance features such as classical columns, projecting stones around windows, and other features which were combined with traditional forms and elements, the conglomerate sometimes giving an appearance that has a "Baroque" quality to it. The difference between the Seljuk "Baroque" and true Baroque architecture is that the European architects were deliberately developing a style of both structure and ornament that challenged the rules of Classically-based Renaissance architecture, while the Seljuk architects continued to construct buildings along the usual lines, but applied the Classicising details, borrowed, without regard for the "rules" that usually governed their use. A similarly "Baroque" character can be seen in some Spanish architecture that combines Islamic and Gothic forms. Amandajm (talk) 07:20, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
Encyclopedic language[edit]
I noticed this horrid line in the Modern Usage section:
"Expressionism throws some terrific 'fuck you's, baroque doesn't. Baroque is well-mannered."
Is this the kind of writing we want in an encyclopedia? Foul language can be useful, even in written works, but it must be appropriate to the circumstances. It would be difficult to convince me that this quote is anything but an unintelligent attempt to make a bold statement. (How ironic that this is in an article about baroque!)126.96.36.199 (talk) 13:23, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
- Removed - it was a quote from translated from the Spanish, but didn't really help. Johnbod (talk) 14:48, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
Edit request on 15 April 2012[edit]
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I noticed in the source code there seems to be a stray div tag. Right after the heading Modern usage, the tag '
Bratwursted (talk) 00:13, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
Done Thanks, Celestra (talk) 15:22, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
I find this article the easiest to understand and the easiest to use and learn about art. I'm posting this to say that a lot of the articles about Renaissance art, music, sculpture, etc. are very technical and difficult for a layman like me to understand and use. After all, the whole point of Wikipedia is access to quick, useful and easy-to-use information. 184.108.40.206 (talk) 22:56, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
Variety of English[edit]
I just finished reverting an edit changing the spelling of "theater" to "theatre", having hastily checked only a few lingusitic markers ("colour" vs "color", "characterize" ves "characterise"). Now, on closer inspection, I notice that "theatre" is in fact the norm throughout this article, while other elements are a mish-mash of US and UK English. It seems to me a discussion is necessary before proceeding further. "Theatre" is of course an accepted variant in American English, though "theater" is the predominant spelling. On the other hand, all occurrences of the word "color" are spelled the Amrican way. As for -ise and -ize endings, they are about half-and-half, though of course Oxford English favours this ending, except for a very few words. So, the division actually splits three ways: US English, UK English, or UK Oxford English. Wading through the edit history may take some while. I am hoping someone has got a simpler solution.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 01:23, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
- A very considerate contribution, Jerome. The first edit, [2], contains "co-operate". A slighlty later edit, [3], contains, "Baroque actually expressed new values, that often are summarised in the use of metaphor and allegory". GrammarHead (talk) 20:05, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
- Thank you. It appears that the first-established style, then, was UK English of the non-Oxford type. Unless there are any dissenting voices, I shall proceed on that basis when editing this article in future.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 01:30, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
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text:
Why am I weak?
Why cant I protect my friends? My family?
Even though i caused most the trouble...
Do you know?
You are stronger than anyone here on Earthland?
Do you want to Protect you friends?
I want to protect them by myself!
But I wish it was true
Then why not make it true
You'll see
Jinxxlove Jul 18
Zeref: The cute, adorable, hot evil wizard Lasagna: The bitch that always gets in the way of NaLu.
MizzAnon May 03, 2016
Lisanna. You can come into the fic, but if you go anywhere near Lucy's property - Aka #Natsu - then I will bitch slap you with my new Neko Atsume glasses case. YOU JUST GOT CAT ATTACKED!
12Rayne Apr 02, 2016
*Lisanna on standby waiting to be put in the story* oh my *Zeref casually walks by for the tenth time making Team Natsu think he's been lurking around and just walking by wanting his presence to be known* ._.
ElegantRose1 Jul 28, 2016
Lol I imagine a literal dragon scale and afterward I imagined a scale, the balancing kind XD Some more detail would be nice, yea
FairyGodess Feb 12, 2016
I don't want to vote because it's 777 (777 is gods number) but yea GOMENE.. (Jkjkjkjk
Ashley_Hime18 Oct 11, 2016
Zeref is fine with me, lurking him around but LISANNA? LISANNA?!! returning from the dead and points out Lucy as a weak mage?! It's hellhole.... F***

subset: commoncrawl


text:
3 Vallées Immobilier - Agence Immobilière
The Estate Agency 3 Vallées Immobilier (rentals & sales, ISO 14001, Tourist Residential Village), proposes a wide range of products, up to 14 persons in Les Menuires, Saint Martin de Belleville and surrounding villages.
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Closed on sunday.
Prices depend on the quality label, on the dates of stay, on the number of nights...
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From 12/12/2015 to 23/04/2016
4 persons 348€ - 1717€
6 persons 492€ - 1865€
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Short stays on request in January and April
The price include bed linen.
On request, possibility to rent 2 Towels : (7,5)
End of stay cleaning from 70 to 180 €
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Ski courses : form 114€ to 204€
Ski passes : consult the agency directly
Pets : 29€ the week
We request a damage deposit on arrival and payment of the local Holiday taxes.
- Bedlinen hire
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- Equipment hire


text:
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152 pages, Bw photos, bw illus, tabs, maps
This important publication is a complete guide to the birdlife of Ireland's wetlands, compiled from the results of the Winter Wetlands Survey 1984-7. It gives details of 380 sites, with 56 species accounts, and distribution data for 47 species. There are analyses of the national and international importance of the listed sites. A useful source of data.
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text:
Hey there, time traveller!
This article was published 29/11/2012 (1726 days ago), so information in it may no longer be current.
Hygge, pronounced hYOOguh, sounds more like something you shout at football games after having consumed a few beers.
But starting in January, it will be the place on The Forks frozen river trail where walkers and skaters get a warm feeling all over.
Hygge House is the winning entry in the annual warming hut architecture contest at The Forks. A group of Winnipeg architects beat out 90 entries from around the world with Hygge House.
Hygge is a Danish word meaning physical and social comfort.
Companies Plain Projects, Urbanink and Pike Projects co-operated on the winning design.
The local talent beat out entries from as distant as Tokyo, Moscow, Lisbon, Barcelona, Egypt, Colombia and Germany.
They were chosen by a three-person "blind" jury, meaning the jury had no knowledge or background on any submitters.
Hygge House is an iconic pioneer cabin with the inside painted fluorescent yellow. Everything, including the walls, a functioning wood stove, a crokinole board and a wall-mounted fish, will also be fluorescent yellow.
"We're creating a mindscape for warmth," explained Colin Grover of Pike Projects.
People skating by Hygge House, however, may be left wondering where the other half is.
Said Liz Wreford-Taylor of Plain Projects: "We sliced it in half and opened it up" to make it a place where people are open to social interaction.
It will be surrounded by trees painted black like a small forested yard.
Second and third places went to Smokehouse, by Aamodt/plumb Architects from Cambridge, Mass., and Woolhaus, by Myung kweon Park of New York.
The winning warming huts and others are expected to be on display by the third week of January. Also coming back this year is the 21-tree river ice forest designed by a team of Israeli architects last year.
Paul Jordan, chief operator officer of The Forks Renewal Corp., said it's looking good for the river trail this year but he didn't want to say more.
"I don't want to jinx it," he said. The world's longest ice-skating trail hasn't been its normal self the last two years when it was only three kilometres long.


text:
Rustic Christmas Centerpiece
Posted by Devin
Labels: tutorials
Posted by Devin
Labels: tutorials
So cute and easy. I think I'll add it to my Christmas to do list.
Love that idea, how perfectly rustic and gorgeous! Pinning, and thanks so much for sharing at my link party!
I love this with the greens and pinecones.
love it simply elegant my theme is rustic here as well
come see me at http://shopannies.blogspot.com
Yes, I totally love your idea! The rustic candle centerpiece is so amazing and fabulous, very elegant. I'd love to share and pin this to my Christmas table decorations board. Thanks for sharing
I like your idea for rustic centerpiece. The wooden box makes it look like an elegant yet natural centerpiece for holiday. Happy Holidays to all!
Christmas table decorations
Love your centerpiece girls! I am featuring it on my blog tomorrow! Thank you so much for linking up to Get Your DIY On! I hope you'll join us tomorrow with your holiday wreaths or door decors :)
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text:
Someone with whom I could make music would be awesome. I can teach you to sing way better. I have developed some new (to our "civilization") yogas, one of which is for the vocal cords. I call it vocal yoga. It's going to be huge. Did you know that you can purr? I am also eager to teach anyone who wants to learn the joy and unfathomable mystery of the electric guitar.
I am an individual. I think critically, and for myself. I think TV is mostly brainwashing for homogenization.
I'm quick to laugh (I already have a laugh line) and make others laugh. I think it's very important to be able to laugh at oneself. You might say I'm easily amused, and I think that's a good thing.
List of things I love: you, singing, the electric guitar, love, hearing new points of view and ideas, basically anything outdoors, hard labor with groovy results, playing and seeing and hearing music, studying any and all religions, gardening, children, the elderly, people in between, animals of all shapes and sizes, farms, growth, blossoming, complexity, simplicity, transformation, metamorphosis, science, tasteful/artistic potty humor, puns, wordplay, lyricism, hydroponics, cuddling, massages, reading, writing, playing golf, tennis, badminton, basketball, volleyball, other sports, chess, pool, enjoying, tree-climbing, exploring, walks in forests, hiking, camping, learning, mycology, philology, living life, etc. I'm practically always calm. "Life is very short, and there's no time for fussing and fighting, my friends." I believe in loving everyone, even if we don't like everyone, as we are all family. People who love the least need love the most, so go easy on them. Music festivals have heavily influenced my life. I've been to 20-30 of them. I am not big on isms, but I do consider myself a feminist in word and deed. The sexual imbalance here is a shared problem and we must share the effort and responsibility for a solution. I'd like to hear about you much more than I like to talk about myself.
Electric guitar.
Being kind.
Finding the bright side.
Hula hooping.
Pleasing women (not just physically). Making people laugh.
I am also pretty good at using logic, analogies, diplomacy, metaphors, and parables, communicating, making peaceful resolutions out of conflict, and saying nice things about others (and apparently about myself as well).
Currently reading The Mucusless Diet by Arnold Ehret
I take self-education about as seriously as anything, though I am generally not a severe or serious person.
Movies: Ones that don't suck. The Big Lebowski.
Shows: South Park and Rick and Morty.
Music: Anything with soul. Bluegrass, folk, classical, jazz, old country, funk, and a select few hip-hop and rock and roll artists. Probably other kinds that I have forgotten. I like to see local live music even if it isn't very good. Support the local arts! I'm a Deadhead, but not the dredlock dirty hippie nomad kind. I do enjoy those people's company though. A very small few of my favorite artists would be The Doors, The Clash, Jerry Garcia, Pink Floyd, Zeppelin, Simon and Garfunkel, The Beatles, Janis Joplin, Beverly Kenney, Tommy Emmanuel, Itzhak Perlman, Vladimir Gorbach, Boris Berezovsky, Arlo Guthrie, Woody Guthrie, and the list goes on and on and on.
Classical Composers: Rachmaninoff, Liszt, Stravinsky, Tarrega, and of course the more famous names that I don't even need to mention.
Food: No meat or dairy obtained via cruelty. Anything from my garden. Eat what you want. I won't preach.
Love, music, food, air, water, heat, humor, vibration, subatomic particles/waveforms/wavenonforms/energy, artistic expression, an electric guitar and amp, calligraphy pens, paper, my imagination, language and linguistic aptitude, silence, disobedience, my conscience.
Whether Jesus was a magic mushroom. Seriously.
Things that Lao Tzu said, or wrote, or whatever, and Chuang Tzu, and Osho.
Things that Terence McKenna and Alan Watts and Thoreau and Bastiat have said/written.
"Your face."
"That's what she said."
"Why did 'Your Face' and 'That's what she said' and 'Derp' take so long to happen? They would have been funny hundreds of years ago."
"Is the earth our only home, to be protected? Or is it a sort of giant test tube, to be discarded after synthesis is complete?"
"Why am I not living in the woods?"
"I'm ready."- Spongebob
"I was born ready"-Unknown
"Why do I never see any midgets on here? Are they that rare or do they have their own dating site?"
"It is something to paint a particular picture, or to carve a statue, and so make a few objects beautiful; but it is far more glorious to paint and curve the very atmosphere and medium through which we look. To affect the quality of the day, that is the highest of the arts."-Thoreau
"Real gangsta-ass niggas don't flex nuts, cuz real gangsta-ass niggas know they got'em"
"Yeah, well, that's just like, your opinion, man."
"What is peace and where can I get me some?"
"Is this really real?"
"What IS that THING?"
"Are we there yet?"
"When will we get there?"
"What do you mean we're already there? This doesn't look like my preconception of 'there'."
"How do you know? We'll see."
"Why can't I get paid to read whatever I want?"
"Does this dress make me look fat? How about gay?"
"Hakuna Matata" a.k.a. "Fuck it."
"What IS electricity?"
"How do magnets work?"
"There's more to the picture than meets the eye."
"Nothing is fucked here, Dude."
"You're being very unDude."
"I'm just an old chunk of coal, but I'm gonna be a diamond someday."
"I'm just a caterpillar now, but I'm gonna be a butterfly someday."
I have no private thoughts or secrets really. Ask and I will answer fully.
You're an artist/musician/singer/writer.
You read a lot.
You need a therapist/counselor/ear/shoulder.
Do not if:
Your pictures have you holding your phone and pointing it at a mirror with your hand on your hip and making a kiss face.
You could not care less about grammar or spelling. (I can kind of understand the "your/you're" problem that people have, but I weep for humanity when I see an "are" where an "our" is supposed to be.)
You feel you need makeup to look good on a daily basis.
Your username has mami, bella, hot, or baby/babii in it.
You still pledge allegiance to the flag.
You can't accept/ entertain/ wrap your head around the fact that countries are giant cults.


text:
The following are quotes from Andromeda.
- Michael Ford (regarding Andromeda) - "That's Andromeda? Damn. Andromeda is a stone-cold fox!"
- Michael Ford - "Not that I don't appreciate it, but why exactly are you helping me?"
- Andromeda - "I am not helping you, Michael Ford. My purpose is to aid the Destroyer. And as long as you wear that armor, that is what you are."


text:
This Figural Lizard Pin is about 3 & 1/2" in length and 1 & 5/8" in width. It is an older pin as it has no latch or lock on the back and dates from around the 1920's - 1930's. He has ( 7 ) colored rhinestones on his back and (2) smaller green rhinestones for eyes.
Antique Sterling Silver, Jewelry, Napkin Rings, Victorian Objects


text:
Step 3: Sampling Inspection / Evaluation
Creation of sample tools monitored and documented by CemeCon engineers
Once the selection of the individual production steps has been completed, we produce the initial sample tools in accordance with this preliminary specification.
In doing so, we document:
Use of these test tools can be monitored and documented by CemeCon engineers. They also check the extent to which results match the objectives and whether optimization is necessary.


text: Jusr received an email from Jet Parks informing that our booking for Jet Park 1 has been moved to Jet Park Plus, 'due to unforseen circumstances'. Jet Park 2 bookings have also been moved. Anyone know why? Jet Parks say that my parking space is guaranteed, but if they are moving both Jet Parks 1&2 to their Plus site.... how are we all going to park?


text: Posted September 28, 2007 · Report post I had been on the regimen for about 3 months with success. I had managed to achieve clear skin, and was dealing with red marks.Then the school year started and I returned to weight lifting (after quitting for over a year.) Within weeks i suffered a cysts right above my eye brow. I never get these kinds of break outs, they are the most severe i've ever seen. Less than 2 weeks later i got another one on my cheek.After suspecting this correlation i did some research and found a link between DHT (Dihydrotestosterone), Acne, and weight lifting.Note: after lifting i immediately showered in the locker room, washing my hair, face, body. Everything i would do at home. So I strongly doubt it is hygiene related. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites


text:
Hey there, time traveller!
This article was published 11/3/2014 (1261 days ago), so information in it may no longer be current.
The Winnipeg Goldeyes' 2014 roster is continuing to shape up, announcing today that two players retired, while two more signed up.
On their way out are pitchers Mark Hardy and Patrick Keating, who are both retiring from professional ball. Keating turned out a solid showing as the Fish's closer last season, while Canadian Hardy went 7-3 with a 3.48 ERA in 13 starts.
So manager Rick Forney will now hunt for hurlers to fill those spots. In the meantime, he has two other pieces signed up: the Fish also announced the return of rookie catcher Jordan Guida, and the signing of right-handed pitcher Christian Garcia.
Guida, 25, saw action in 42 games with the Goldeyes last season, hitting .184 in 38 at-bats with an RBI. Since he didn't step up to the plate enough to accumulate a year of service under American Association rules, he retains his rookie classification and will get another chance to impress when training camp opens this spring.
"He's a really good rookie," Forney said in a statement. "Unfortunately the way our roster evolved last year, we didn't get him nearly enough playing time as I would have liked. He has the ability to be a really good catcher. He has good hands, a really strong throwing arm, good feet behind the plate and really does a good job of calling games. Offensively, I think he has a lot of pop and some extra-base hit potential. We look forward to see him in camp again this year."
Garcia, 22, is a brand-new acquisition. He played most of last season as a rookie in the Houston Astros organization, going 2-1 with a 5.85 ERA in 16 appearances in the Appalachian League. Forney was sold on the rookie by an agent, and will look to see if Garcia can find a spot in the Goldeyes bullpen. "We're looking for some younger guys to help fill out our pitching staff," Forney said. "We're hopeful he can come in and solidify a spot on the team."


text:
Toby is a 2 year old Miniature Pinscher Chihuahua mix looking for his forever home. This cutie is full grown and weighs in at 7 lbs! He's a tiny tike with a huge personality. This guy was abandoned with another dog, but thankfully is safe and will never be abandoned again! Toby is a people dog.. he loves his people! He also loves other dogs, but we do recommend an introduction as Toby can be dominant. We do not recommend kids. Toby also prefers a female owner. Toby loves to play, loves to explore, loves to sleep with his people, and be near his people. He would do best in any kind of activity level home but with people that aren't gone too long during the day. He is neutered, up to date on vaccines, chipped, licensed, vet checked, comes with 30 days of free pet insurance, and comes with a free vet visit. His adoption fee is $220. To meet him, come to our location at 1102 W. Hatcher Road in Phoenix 85021, open daily 11am to 6pm. On weekends, call for location as we have off site adoption events that some of our dogs attend, 602-944-2440
Open daily 11am to 6pm / 1102 W. Hatcher Rd, Phoenix AZ 85021 / 602-944-2440
WEEKEND ADOPTION EVENT LOCATIONS - Many animals available for adoption!
4727 East Bell Road, Phoenix, AZ 85032 (Near Walmart)
13764 W Bell Rd Surprise, AZ - Cross Streets: Bell Rd and Grand Ave in Surprise Towne Center Shops (Near Home Depot)
***Visit our website or facebook page for special events schedules!***
Website: www.azsmalldog.org
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/arizonasmalldogrescue/
Thank You!
Your message has been sent to AZ Small Dog Rescue.
You'll receive a copy, too, at to help you keep track of which pets you've inquired about, and which shelters and rescues you've emailed.
NOTE: Some shelters have physical locations you can visit; some of these shelters may only have pets for a limited time, so please do not wait for a reply—just go visit the shelter! Other organizations are rescue groups run by busy volunteers who may take a while to reply. You can find information about the shelter or rescue group caring for this pet, and their adoption procedures, on the pet's details page on Adopt-a-Pet.com.


text:
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text: Waking up at Puakea Ranch is sort of a surreal experience. You know those dream sequences Hollywood features in movies where you wake up in a beautiful white room, with a breeze flowing from the open french doors, and your hair is beautifully curled? Puakea Ranch is basically like that, without the hair...Read more


text:
|Publication number
|Publication type
|Application number
|Publication date
|Sep 14, 2010
|Filing date
|Oct 7, 2005
|Priority date
|Nov 5, 2004
|Fee status
|Also published as
|Publication number
|Ismail El Kholy, Gregoire Jacob, Jean-Louis Pessin
|Original Assignee
|Schlumberger Technology Corporation
|Export Citation
|BiBTeX, EndNote, RefMan
|Patent Citations (39), Referenced by (18), Classifications (17), Legal Events (2)
|External Links: USPTO, USPTO Assignment, Espacenet
This patent application is a non-provisional application of provisional application Ser. No. 60/625,546 filed Nov. 5, 2004.
1. Field of the Invention
The present invention relates to the preparation of subterranean formation treatment fluids, and more particularly, but not by way of limitation, apparatus and methods for preparing viscous treatment gels with dry polymer and water.
2. Description of the Related Art
In the oil drilling and production industry, viscous aqueous fluids are commonly used in treating subterranean wells, and as carrier fluids. Such fluids may be used as fracturing fluids, acidizing fluids, and high-density completion fluids. In an operation known as well fracturing, such fluids are used to initiate and propagate underground fractures for increasing oilwell productivity.
Viscous fluids, such as gels, are typically an aqueous solution of a polymer material. A common continuous method used to prepare viscous fluids at an oilwell site, involves the use of initial slurry of the polymer material in a hydrocarbon carrier fluid (i.e. diesel fluid) which facilitates the polymer dispersion and slurry mixing. Although this process achieves the required gel quality, the presence of hydrocarbon fluids is often objected to in particular fields, even though the hydrocarbon represents a relatively small amount of the total fracturing gel once mixed with water. Also, there are environmental problems associated with the clean-up and disposal of both hydrocarbon-based concentrates and well treatment gels containing hydrocarbons; as well as with the clean-up of the tanks, piping, and other handling equipment which have been contaminated by the hydrocarbon-based gel.
Other applications used for the continuous mixing of viscous treatment gels include gelling the polymer in a hydrocarbon carrier that is mixed with water to produce the fracturing gel which is then flowed through baffled tanks providing first-in/first-out (FIFO) flow pattern, and allowing for the hydration time of the gel. Yet, another technique for mixing of dry polymer directly to produce viscous treatment gels is described in Allen, U.S. Pat. No. 5,426,137, Allen, U.S. Pat. No. 5,382,411, and Harms et al., U.S. Pat. No. 5,190,374. These techniques, while potentially effective, require several complicated steps to prepare the gel, which presents drawbacks in an oilwell setting. Further, U.S. Patent Application 2004/0256106 A1 discloses an apparatus without an eductor, for substantially hydrating a gel particulate using a mixer in conjunction with an impeller located within the mixer housing, which prevents formation of gel balls.
Therefore, there is a need for apparatus and methods useful for hydrating a dry polymer constituents directly for preparing viscous treatment gels in a continuous mode without the use of the hydrocarbon carrier fluid, and such need is met, at least in part, by the following invention.
Preparation of a viscous treatment gel from dry polymer is achieved by first dispersing the polymer in water utilizing a constant volume commercial eductor. A premixing device may also be placed in parallel with the eductor to help dispersion and reduce air introduction into the mixture. The eductor operates at a constant water rate and pressure thus producing a concentrated polymer slurry. The resulting concentrated polymer slurry is discharged into a specifically designed dilution and remixing chamber, referred to herein as a "mixing chimney." In the input section of the mixing chimney, a jet of metered dilution water is applied at high pressure to the incoming concentrated polymer slurry stream, to form a diluted polymer slurry. The dilution stream accelerates the concentrated polymer slurry in a circular, and preferably upward, motion where it is sheared against the high drag wall of the chimney, thus fully mixing both streams producing a homogenous diluted gel. The diluted polymer slurry is further sheared as it exits the mixing chimney through circumferentially located perforations or slots which are located upon the output section of the mixing chimney. The exiting viscous treatment gel may then be contained by an external splashguard, or outer chamber, that arrests the radial velocity of the exiting gel while maintaining some of the rotational motion of the fluid into a storage compartment of a hydration tank. The above apparatus provides a simple to operate and robust field technique for continuously producing quality viscous treatment gel at any rate, as required by any specific oilwell application.
The present invention may be used for continuously mixing and dispersing quality gel from polymer powder, without the need for pretreating the polymer with or spraying by chemicals that function, for instance, as pH buffers or even hydration retarders. Hence, the invention enables effective use of untreated polymers to prepare a viscous treatment gel at a wellsite.
Illustrative embodiments of the invention are described below. In the interest of clarity, not all features of an actual implementation are described in this specification. It will of course be appreciated that in the development of any such actual embodiment, numerous implementation-specific decisions must be made to achieve the developer's specific goals, such as compliance with system-related and business-related constraints, which will vary from one implementation to another. Moreover, it will be appreciated that such a development effort might be complex and time consuming, but would nevertheless be a routine undertaking for those of ordinary skill in the art having the benefit of this disclosure. Preferred embodiments of the invention will now be described with reference to the drawings, wherein like reference characters refer to like or corresponding parts throughout the drawings and description.
The present invention relates to the preparation of subterranean formation treatment fluids, and more particularly, but not by way of limitation, an apparatus and methods for preparing a viscous treatment gel from dry polymer constituents and water in a continuous mode. The apparatus and methods are particularly useful for preparing a viscous treatment gel from dry polymer at a wellbore site for fracturing a subterranean formation. As used herein: the term "gel" means any liquid material in a viscous state suitable for treating a wellbore; "dry polymer" means any form of polymer which is commercially available, transferred, or supplied, in a solid form (crystalline, amorphous, or otherwise), and not in an aqueous or non-aqueous solvated, slurried, or suspended form, and may be any polymer type useful for well treatments, including, but not limited to biopolymers such as xanthan and diutan, cellulose and its derivatives (i.e. carboxymethylhydroxyethyl cellulose, hydroxypropyl cellulose, etc.), guar and its derivatives (i.e. carboxymethylhydroxypropyl guar, hydroxypropyl guar, carboxymethyl guar, carboxymethylhydroxyethyl guar, etc.), polylactic acid, polyglycolic acid, polyvinyl alcohol, polyacrylamide, other synthetic polymers, and the like. Any dry polymer may contain commercially acceptable moisture levels.
Referring to
Referring to
In an embodiment of the present invention, input tube 230 is used to inject dilution water for mixture with the concentrated polymer slurry. The water stream is injected tangentially under pressure along the inner wall of the lower input section 110 of the mixing chimney 100. Along the inner wall of the lower input section 110, the water sweeps and accelerates the concentrated polymer slurry stream into a circular motion as the slurry is injected through input tube 220. The unrestricted flow path in the vertical upwards direction in the mixing chimney 100 allows the incoming slurry and dilution water to move upwards with the resultant flow of the diluted mixture being spirally upwards along the inner wall of the chimney 100. The rotating motion and the upwards flow induced by the motive force of the dilution water stream from input tube 230, and not merely the passive energy of the slurry stream from input tube 220, aids in the elimination of air from the mixture.
Referring again to
Upon exiting the mixing chimney 100, the gel may pass into a first compartment of the hydration tank. In one process, the treatment gel is delivered on a first-in/first-out flow path of the hydration tank, as the treatment gel exits the chimney. Such processes are known in the art and or generally described in Constien et al., U.S. Pat. No. 4,828,034, and McIntire, U.S. Pat. No. 5,046,865, herein incorporated by reference thereto.
In one embodiment the mixing chimney 101) comprises a lower input section 110 a central section 120, and a top section 130 wherein each section is connected to form a chamber for mixing. The sections may be connected by any means known in the art, such as, by non-limiting example, welding or connectable flanges. In other embodiments of the present invention, the chamber may also be formed from one or two cylinders. As seen in
Some mixing chimneys according to the invention may have the input section placed other than the lower portion. For instance, the input section may be at the top of the chimney, while the section through which the diluted polymer slurry exits is positioned at the bottom of the chimney. Hence, the chimney could be comprised of: a top input section comprising a mixing and dilution chamber and inlets connected to input tubes; a central section wherein polymer slurry and water are mixed and sheared; and, a bottom section comprising a plurality holes circumferentially located upon the periphery thereof through which gel exits the chimney.
In another embodiment of the invention, a method for hydrating a dry polymer to prepare a viscous treatment gel is provided. The process generally includes the steps of dispersing dry polymer in water in an eductor to form a concentrated polymer slurry, and simultaneously injecting the concentrated polymer slurry with water into the input portion of the mixing chimney. The concentrated polymer slurry and dilution water are mixed inside the mixing chimney to form a diluted polymer slurry. The diluted polymer slurry exits through plurality holes or slots positioned at the output section of the mixing chimney to provide a viscous treatment gel. The viscous treatment gel may then be contained and delivered from a hydration tank.
In further embodiments of the invention, the viscous treatment gel may also be held and flowed through vertically baffled compartments of a first-in/first-out hydration tank which ensures residence time to accommodate further, or full hydration of the gel. Bar turbine agitators in each of the compartments may be further used to shear the gel enhancing the hydration process, and improving the first-in/first-out flow pattern. The fluid is discharged by gravity from the last compartment of the hydration tank. Process control with feedback from level sensors in each compartment, or the last compartment, controls the mixing rate by altering the opening of the dilution valve.
In the embodiment represented by
Referring again the
The amount of dry polymer dispensed from bin 402 may be determined by any suitable means, including gravimetrically by measuring the loss in mass of the bin 402, or volumetrically by controlling the speed of the metering screw 404. To further formation of the viscous treatment gel, diluted polymer slurry exits the mixing chimney 410 into the first compartment of the hydration tank 418. Then it may be directed from one compartment to the next flowing downwards from the first compartment 1 to the second 2, upwards from the second 2 to the third 3, downwards from the third 3 to the fourth 4, and upwards from the fourth 4 to the fifth 5. This maintains a predominantly first-in/first-out flow pattern and ensuring the gel spends at least the required residence time at maximum rate to complete its hydration. Agitators 420 (only one indicated) in each of the compartments may be used to add energy and enhance hydration, as well as to maintain the first-in/first-out flow pattern by minimizing channeling. Ultimately, the viscous treatment gel is supply to a wellbore from the hydration tank via discharge connections.
The following example illustrates the operation of an embodiment of the invention. The target output rate of a wellbore viscous treatment gel for at a wellbore site is about 20 barrels per minute (840 gal per min., 3180 liters per minute), and the desired concentration of dry polymer in the treatment gel is 40 lb/1000 gallons (4.8 kg/1000 liters). Referring again to
Also, in other embodiments of the invention, a method and apparatus that provides the means for continuous mixing and hydration of well viscous treatment gels from dry polymer may incorporate the use of a plurality of mixing chimneys. The mixing chimneys may be connected in series, parallel, or any combination thereof.
While presently preferred embodiments of the invention have been described herein for the purpose of disclosure, numerous changes in the construction and arrangement of parts and the performance of steps will suggest themselves to those skilled in the art in view of the disclosure contained herein, which changes are encompassed within the spirit of this invention, as defined by the following claims.
|Cited Patent
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|Title not available
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|Schlumberger Technology Corporation
|Dry polymer hydration apparatus and methods of use
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|Woods Roger H
|Apparatus for the incorporation of a dry treatment product into a liquid waste
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|U.S. Classification
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|International Classification
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|Nov 8, 2005
Owner name: SCHLUMBERGER TECHNOLOGY CORPORATION, TEXAS
Free format text: ASSIGNMENT OF ASSIGNORS INTEREST;ASSIGNORS:EL KHOLY, ISMAIL;JACOB, GREGOIRE;PESSIN, JEAN-LOUIS;REEL/FRAME:016749/0384;SIGNING DATES FROM 20051017 TO 20051020
Owner name: SCHLUMBERGER TECHNOLOGY CORPORATION, TEXAS
Free format text: ASSIGNMENT OF ASSIGNORS INTEREST;ASSIGNORS:EL KHOLY, ISMAIL;JACOB, GREGOIRE;PESSIN, JEAN-LOUIS;SIGNING DATES FROM 20051017 TO 20051020;REEL/FRAME:016749/0384
|Feb 12, 2014
|Fee payment
Year of fee payment: 4


text:
Name: Trouble Down Below
Director: Mansfield Warwick
Country: United States
Year: 1981
Language: English
Duration: 52 min
Actors: Gary Anderson
Categories: Michelle porn videos, 1981, United States, English, Mansfield Warwick, Connie Peters, Maria Tortuga, Tawny Pearl, Michelle, Gary Anderson, Facial, Latin
Actress: Connie Peters,Maria Tortuga,Tawny Pearl,Michelle
Helen Heine has some serious Trouble Down Below. As she tells Dr. Bill, she "can only have a climax through anal sex," and as Dr. Bill tells her, this could cost her her marriage "because her husband, Al, is an anal retentive." Yes, that's what he says. So husband Al boffs his mistress, Carol, and Helen bends over for Dr. Bill, who's "sensitive to her needs." Apparently, Dr. Bill is sensitive to the needs of all his patients, for he organizes "a group grope" to accommodate the epidemic satyriasis which these guys and gals seem to suffer from. And guess what, folks? It turns out to be just what the doctor ordered! Helen Heine is played by West Coast Anal Legend Connie Peterson. Those deviates out there who know Miss Peterson's asshole from her extensive loop work will no doubt be glad to see her in this starring role in a feature film. Though she can't act, the Deviate feels obliged to point out that Connie's anus has made the transition from silents to talkies in fine fettle!DOWNLOAD FILM


text:
Different Types of Poems
Created By: Dasani Jones,Kaleb Ward,Ahmad Bayyari,Pernell Griffin
The first type of poem shown is called a concrete poem. Concrete shape poetry is poetry in which the typographical arrangement of words is as important in conveying the intended effect as the conventional elements of the poem.
The poem in the second picture is called a free-verse.Free verse is an open form of poetry. It does not use consistent meter patterns, rhyme, or any other musical pattern. It thus tends to follow the rhythm of natural speech.
The third type of poetry shown is narrative. A narrative poem is a form of poetry that tells a story, often making use of the voices of a narrator and characters as well; the entire story is usually written in metred verse.
The fourth poem shown is a Haiku which is a very short form of Japanese poetry.
And the final poem shown is a limerick. Limericks are a short, humorous, often ribald or nonsense poem.


text:
Nate Silver, famous for his accurate, statistically-based political predictions, and before that his surprisingly accurate baseball predictions, has moved on to the Super Bowl. His bet: the New England Patriots vs. the Seattle Seahawks. He explained on ESPN's First Take that while the Seahawks are not the top-ranked team in the NFC, they are the most balanced, and most impressive in the second half of the season:
In terms of the balance overall between offensive and defensive play, Seattle had that best balance throughout the year and... in the second half, were blowing people out by 50-to-7 scores and so forth.
Seattle, however is not the second best team in the entire NFL, according to Silver. That would be the Denver Broncos, led by a newly reenergized Peyton Manning. If the Patriots and Broncos met in the AFC Championship, Silver said that could be a sort of "de facto Super Bowl."
Football, Silver explained, is harder to predict than baseball, due to its smaller sample size (a football season is 16 games, one tenth that of baseball), but there are metrics that provide some insight into not just what did happen, but what will happen. When it comes to predicting the future, Nate Silver is as safe a bet as you are going to get.


text:
In reference to the old adage, "the calm before the storm" – the stock markets tend to have good storms right after the bad storms. By this I mean that equity markets have a tendency to rebound fairly strongly after adverse market conditions.
Unfortunately, many investors bail out of their investment portfolio strategies during the bad storms and forego the market appreciation while watching from the sidelines. Of course, it can be very difficult watching your portfolio see-sawing back and forth so I thought I would ask Russell Investments for permission to post a fantastic chart they have that might help you "batten down the hatches" and focus on the long term…
(Note – you can click on the picture for a larger version. For email subscribers, please click here to view the photo if it does not appear.)
Many thanks to Russell Investments Canada Limited for permission to post this.
I like this chart. It really shows how markets tend to rise more than they fall. It can be very dangerous to jump out of the market to avoid one of the small red blocks because you might miss one of the big green blocks.
Brilliant find Preet!
Now this is what I needed to see, nothing like a nice graph to start the day. It's been said many times before that markets over time will go up and blah, blah, blah… This proves that a picture is indeed worth a thousands words.
These choppy markets make for an emotional roller coaster, surely not for the fait of heart. The graph reinforces the importance of staying invested and maybe even some dollar cost averaging. Only those with a solid plan and discipline will profit from equities in the long term.
Preet, would you have any info on what day of the week it would be best to set up weekly fund purchases? Currently I'm doing it every other Thursday but I've a hunch that weekly might be a better frequency.
Although timing the market is said to be a poor investment strategy, I'm running a little 'Buy when there's blood in the streets' experiment. I've been buying TD eFunds CDN Index in $100 lots everytime TSX dips by >150 points. YTD this strategy is up by 4.2% against the index. I want to accumulate enough funds to buy 1 share of baby BRK.
Cheers to your financial health,
TKO from Ontario
@Michael James – so true. I think people should have this and an Andex chart handy at all times! :)
@TKO – thanks for the kind words. Peter Lynch found that the the high point versus the low point of the year for systematic annual lump sum contributions resulted in no more than 1% difference over very long periods of time. Basically, the extra time and hassle trying to figure it out probably isn't worth it, and statistically your odds of doing so are poor.
Most important, make it automatic and regular. Over the longer periods of time, if you believe that markets go up then you could actually make a case for borrowing with a term loan, take the proceeds to invest NOW and this will result in the lowest adjusted cost base over thirty years (or whatever long time period you choose, but it has to be long). Even after factoring in interest on the loan. Think of this as taking all your $100 contributions and adding them up to put them all in now. Your cost to do this would be the interest, but the capital appreciation and compounding over time would make this statistically ideal. Of course, there is the chance that markets are flat over long periods of time, no one knows for sure. Most people couldn't handle doing something like that.
Your 'buy when there is blood' is easier in choppy markets, but you may have underperformance in a strong bull market. Which from the chart is more often than not! :)
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RecruitNY Open House – April 25
For Immediate Release:
On Saturday, April 25, 2015, the Great River Fire Department will host an open house from 10:00 AM to 2:00 PM.
Individuals who feel they may be interested in joining the brave men and women of the department are encouraged to attend in order to speak with our fire fighters about membership. These volunteers courageously and unselfishly devote their time and energy to protect the lives, homes and businesses in our community by acting as first responders in medical emergencies as well as fighting fires. At the open house, they will be able to provide firsthand knowledge of what it takes to join their ranks as well as provide information on the benefits of membership.
If you are a person who wants to make a difference in the lives of others and reap the rewards of knowing that you have contributed to your community, take the first step and join us on this day.
We are actively recruiting members and welcome your interest in our commitment to others!