text:
Title: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on July 20, 2015, 06:24:30 PM
Just registered for the Colorado Mile! https://www.usmileracing.com/category/us-mile-news/ (https://www.usmileracing.com/category/us-mile-news/)
Now, just need a bike ... and a plan!
Had nearly a year to think through things things since last year's rainout for SpeedWeek at Bonneville, and a little time getting to know the ECU, injectors, and nitrous system a bit more.
Lots of testing on the 89 street bike the past few months - and luckily no con rods trying to escape like last year. Over the next few weeks it will get returned to full street trim, and the 84 drag bike will become a dual purpose race bike -- both drag racing and land speed racing.
The biggest upgrade for the program this year will be having the engine built properly - by Randy at RPM of course!
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: Firehawk068 on July 20, 2015, 08:51:57 PM
One of these days, I gotta come down and see your projects :drinks:
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: racerrad8 on July 20, 2015, 09:01:02 PM
One of these days, I gotta come down and see your projects :drinks:
He is going to need a significant amount of help to get this all done...
I know you have a lot on your plate, but check with him, I am sure he would appreciate the help.
Randy - RPM
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: fj1289 on July 21, 2015, 09:31:55 AM
One of these days, I gotta come down and see your projects :drinks:
Just make sure your tetanus shot is up to date! After the Bonneville thrash last year, my garage still looks like Fallujah after the Marines and the AC-130 Gunships got done with it...
After I get some bearings and spacers for my "back up" ThunderAce rims, I'll need to come by for a tire changing party. :drinks:
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: Firehawk068 on July 21, 2015, 12:18:59 PM
One of these days, I gotta come down and see your projects :drinks:
Just make sure your tetanus shot is up to date! After the Bonneville thrash last year, my garage still looks like Fallujah after the Marines and the AC-130 Gunships got done with it...
After I get some bearings and spacers for my "back up" ThunderAce rims, I'll need to come by for a tire changing party. :drinks:
Just let me know when. Tire changer is ready.
And if you need any help at your shop, I might be able to break away some time to lend a hand. :drinks:
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: fj1289 on July 21, 2015, 05:34:57 PM
Alan - will welcome the help. The next three weeks will scarce - think I'll be gone all but five of those days. After that my schedule slows down. I'm going to try to fence off a full day of each of those remaining weekends to get it done!
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: racerrad8 on July 27, 2015, 02:48:42 PM
Had nearly a year to think through things things since last year's rainout for SpeedWeek at Bonneville...
Glad we did not try for Bonneville this year...
http://www.usnews.com/news/features/news-video?ndn.trackingGroup=90080&ndn.siteSection=ndn1_usnews&ndn.videoId=29416140&freewheel=90080&sitesection=ndn1_usnews&vid=29416140 (http://www.usnews.com/news/features/news-video?ndn.trackingGroup=90080&ndn.siteSection=ndn1_usnews&ndn.videoId=29416140&freewheel=90080&sitesection=ndn1_usnews&vid=29416140)
Randy - RPM
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: fj1289 on July 31, 2015, 11:35:45 PM
Had nearly a year to think through things things since last year's rainout for SpeedWeek at Bonneville...
Glad we did not try for Bonneville this year...
[url]http://www.usnews.com/news/features/news-video?ndn.trackingGroup=90080&ndn.siteSection=ndn1_usnews&ndn.videoId=29416140&freewheel=90080&sitesection=ndn1_usnews&vid=29416140[/url] ([url]http://www.usnews.com/news/features/news-video?ndn.trackingGroup=90080&ndn.siteSection=ndn1_usnews&ndn.videoId=29416140&freewheel=90080&sitesection=ndn1_usnews&vid=29416140[/url])
Randy - RPM
No doubt! And it sounds like the Bonneville Motorcycle Speed Trials at the end of August are questionable too...
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: fj1289 on August 01, 2015, 12:00:07 AM
Hard to believe this was a fully functional drag bike trying to break into the nines a year ago. With a bit of work and a little luck it'll be ready to run 200 mph in 5 weeks!
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: fj1289 on August 03, 2015, 12:17:05 AM
Making progress! Where we stand now:
Subframe came off first for mods. A bit of cutting and grinding to fit the flat under tail from the Bonneville mods from last year.
The long swing arm goes in next - a modified FZ1 swing arm originally from the original drag bike build.
Fiberglassed in battery trays to the under tail. Not legal for Bonneville, but should be good to go for the mile. Put the batteries in the tail will clear up a lot of needed space in the middle of the bike.
Moved the coil mount from the street bike to the race bike. LS1 "near to plug" coils (used in vettes and camaros). This placement allows use of the stock Chevy plug wires. These aren't even the "strong" coils -- the Chevy "Tahoe" coils are even more powerful than these. But these haven't had any issues firing off 100 HP worth of nitrous, so they should be good enough!
Large nitrous shots for (fairly) long duration requires a large supply -- 5 pounds should be enough!
Freeing up space in the center lets me put the nitrous solenoid where I want it for easy access and a fairly straight shot to the throttle bodies.
Next will be sorting the fuel system (low pressure feed pump, sump, high pressure EFI pump, and fuel return) and electrics.
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: Firehawk068 on August 03, 2015, 10:49:44 AM
Looks like it's coming along nicely.
I always thought those nitrous bottles had a siphon tube that runs to the bottom? :unknown:
Or does yours not have the siphon tube?
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: Pat Conlon on August 03, 2015, 11:05:34 AM
Chris, are you going to use Randy's EFI system?
If so, will the Microsquirt ECU do what is needed on your NOs system? I assume you are going to use a wet system.
Parhaps a MoTec would be better?
This will be fascinating to watch come together.
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: fj1289 on August 04, 2015, 07:01:02 AM
Alan - these bottles have had the siphon tubes removed. Pretty common on bottles used in bikes - especially when the bottle is mounted vertical in the swingarm. As I understand, most car installations mount the bottle at an angle and siphon tubes are used.
Pat - yes, this is essentially a prototype for Randy's EFI system and is now using the same Microsquirt ECU. It's a very capable controller - not in the same league as the MOTEC - but less than 1/10 of the cost!
I'm running a dry nitrous setup with the Microsquirt adding the required fuel. I went this route because it is much more reliable way to ensure the additional fuel gets there when it needs to - no additional fuel pump or solenoid or wiring to fail on the fuel side. The Microsquirt sends the activation signal to the nitrous solenoid so it's not possible to activate just the nitrous side.
The FJR injectors are actually larger than the 1st gen Hayabusa injectors, so there is a little more power potential before needing to change things - plenty of injector for the sickest 1350 you'll ever build! But, if you're going to start playing with a turbo or dry nitrous and need larger injectors -- it turns out the Subaru WRX injectors slip right into the FJR throttle bodies and wiring clips. I'm running a set of "pink" injectors from a WRX STi and have plenty of duty cycle available for the dry nitrous (up to 120 shot so far) while using E85 fuel (which requires about 30% more fuel than running gasoline).
I am more than impressed so far with this EFI system - very good bang for the buck!
More to follow on the EFI and the nitrous system... :good2:
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: fj1289 on August 06, 2015, 01:26:08 PM
If anyone is interested - here is the entry list as of a couple days ago. The website says there are still a few spot remaining.
Motorcycle list:
and the car list:
Will be cool to see the H2 and the H2R run in anger. Sure hope the H2 is derestricted -- would suck to be limited to 186 with the potential to run 200. H2R has been claimed to run 220's - 240's. It will be interesting to see how will the supercharger deals with the thinner air -- as I understand it, the thinner air tends to push a turbo out of its "sweet spot" and it loses efficiency (creates more heat) for the same boost levels compared to sea level. Wonder if it's the same for a centrifugal supercharger?
I also want to see the De Tamaso Pantera run -- that's been my favorite supercar since a kid. Gotta love a supercar with a muscle car soul
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: racerrad8 on August 12, 2015, 08:04:59 PM
Chris has set a very high goal, but we are going to do are best to achieve it.
We are getting down to crunch time and while we thought we had a solid plan, things have a way of unraveling quickly.
So, the plan was to build a solid bottom end and use the full drag race, ported & flowed cylinder head with some really big valves & cams that Chris has been using all along. Well, a couple of weeks ago Chris pulled the head to send to to me from the test engine he has been using and found a cam lobe had died. So, the head arrived, I was able to get the cams sent out right away to Web Cam and they said one one lobe damaged they could get that turned right around and shipped out last Friday. Well, the cams shipped today, but I can tell you that is much better service than I ever received from Mega Cycle.
Now, since the head was on the engine and running, we figured fix the cam & drop it onto the new RPM long block...
Well that came to a screeching halt this afternoon. Since the head was sitting in the corner until I got the cams back for the install I never even looked at it, but I probably should have...
So, today I flipped it over one to find either too much timing, not enough cooling or too much nitrous has started burning the head away between a couple of exhaust seats.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/2026_zpsgtyufkwa.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/2026_zpsgtyufkwa.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/2025_zpsacyxldgb.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/2025_zpsacyxldgb.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/2023_zpspvm7z89a.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/2023_zpspvm7z89a.jpg.html)
So, tomorrow will give me some direction on plan B regarding the head.
We had a little snafu and got the incorrect piston ring pack and the correct one will be ordered tomorrow. Man "XC" & "XG" sure sound a lot alike when ordering according the the vendor.
Chris was hoping to use his big bore case, but since someone welded some strengthening gussets on the front of the case, the gasket surface is severely warped as you can see by the black ink left behind from a flat sanding block. Then there was the custom case studs someone made and modified the case to fit that I was not comfortable with.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/024_zpswzpmmiv5.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/024_zpswzpmmiv5.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/025_zpswlvaduun.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/025_zpswlvaduun.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/029_zpsw0tiyaba.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/029_zpsw0tiyaba.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/028_zpsv0rrzwfp.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/028_zpsv0rrzwfp.jpg.html)
I had a fairly new XJR1300 engine that we are using for the base of this project.
So, Chris already had a race prepped, balanced & nitrated crankshaft as well as a fairly new set of Carrillo connecting rods. I decided to have the big end of the rod checked & re-sized. The Carrillo rod bolts hit the inside of the case due to the physically larger rod & 12pt rod bolt. I turned the head of the bolts down for clearance so the new case did not have to be modified.
I also had the crank rebalanced based on the new pistons & lighter rod bolts. If you look closely you can see some of the rod edges relieved and all of the small ends were lightened to the lightest rod. The pistons were also balanced to the lightest one. My balancer is not one to add weight, but he likes to take away whenever possible and he is so meticulous that the new drill holes & grind marks you see on the crank counter weights were all that was required to get it perfectly balanced.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/2018_zpsc4alqanq.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/2018_zpsc4alqanq.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/2016_zpsfzwo1bfd.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/2016_zpsfzwo1bfd.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/2017_zpskjry2gnz.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/2017_zpskjry2gnz.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/2020_zpsmuzizbk0.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/2020_zpsmuzizbk0.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/IMG_1387_zpsldlvwfwk.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/IMG_1387_zpsldlvwfwk.jpg.html)(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/IMG_1386_zpskgg0ub7p.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/IMG_1386_zpskgg0ub7p.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/IMG_1385_zpsmvdezrao.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/IMG_1385_zpsmvdezrao.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/IMG_1384_zpsaywvwjtg.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/IMG_1384_zpsaywvwjtg.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/IMG_1383_zpsjltrh8ma.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/IMG_1383_zpsjltrh8ma.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/IMG_1382_zpsqiw1whbv.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/IMG_1382_zpsqiw1whbv.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/IMG_1381_zpsgzpvw6zc.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/IMG_1381_zpsgzpvw6zc.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/IMG_1380_zps4heiwsko.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/IMG_1380_zps4heiwsko.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/IMG_1379_zpsoymsgbok.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/IMG_1379_zpsoymsgbok.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/IMG_1375_zpsprrg4pox.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/IMG_1375_zpsprrg4pox.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/IMG_1376_zpsnnczkwbf.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/IMG_1376_zpsnnczkwbf.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/IMG_1377_zpsy1b2c51o.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/IMG_1377_zpsy1b2c51o.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/IMG_1378_zpsqghcrlzg.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/IMG_1378_zpsqghcrlzg.jpg.html)
Bottom end going together
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/2019_zps8xxo9cko.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/2019_zps8xxo9cko.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/2021_zpstw3od3ja.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/2021_zpstw3od3ja.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/2022_zpsyul6himc.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/2022_zpsyul6himc.jpg.html)
As work progresses over the next week or two, I will try and update as I go along in search of 200.
Man, September 4, 5 & 6 is coming up quick...
Randy - RPM
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: Firehawk068 on August 12, 2015, 08:52:47 PM
Thanks for the update.
This is cool to see! :good2:
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: TexasDave on August 13, 2015, 11:09:08 AM
Thanks for the excellent post. Great pics. Loved the welded ends on the engine studs and how the welding shrunk the mating surfaces. Hope you get the mixture sorted out with that crappy E85. 200 mph would be fantastic. Good luck. Dave
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: racerrad8 on August 13, 2015, 06:08:43 PM
So, today consisted of a bunch of time on the telephone trying to figure out how to trying to make the cylinder head combination work following yesterdays discoveries. That was followed today by even more bad news and the head combination we had hope to use had to be scrapped and that head has been handed over to the speed gods for penance.
Check out the wear in some of the titanium shim under bucket retainers, look at about 1 o'clock.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/001_zpswgh3hdnh.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/001_zpswgh3hdnh.jpg.html)
This is what they are supposed to look like
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/002_zpspt5acxle.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/002_zpspt5acxle.jpg.html)
So, Chris had already sent me a different head last year when prepping for Bonneville and while it is a worked over head, there is still a lot to be done and the camshaft grind is more subdued, but that is our only option with the time left before the event.
We spend some time cleaning up and matching the intake manifolds to the already nicely done port work, but the chambers were totally stock & untouched. You can see how the head was previously installed onto a big bore engine by the carbon ring, the red pen & scribe marks.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/003_zpsojkhvri5.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/003_zpsojkhvri5.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/004_zps1caj04kx.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/004_zps1caj04kx.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/005_zps2uqnbuqu.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/005_zps2uqnbuqu.jpg.html)
Look how shrouded the valves are in the stock chamber at the intake valves
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/006_zpsdrgmbnuj.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/006_zpsdrgmbnuj.jpg.html)
Here is the head that is no good, see how much more open the chamber is
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/007_zpsqj7swist.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/007_zpsqj7swist.jpg.html)
Here is looking down the intake runners of the head
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/008_zpsdx8wbx1k.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/008_zpsdx8wbx1k.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/009_zpsogpqc7xc.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/009_zpsogpqc7xc.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/010_zps7wnot1ud.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/010_zps7wnot1ud.jpg.html)
As you can see, the chambers are currently "roughed in". Tomorrow will consist of head assembly and cc'ing the chambers to get them all even. There goes another eight plus hours...
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/011_zpscoj1l0gv.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/011_zpscoj1l0gv.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/012_zpsznmqcdc8.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/012_zpsznmqcdc8.jpg.html)
Chris, did I ever tell you the two things I hate to most in this world...
Fiberglass repair and porting :diablo:
But hey, today was also a good day because I got to have Robert learn what porting is all about :wacko2:
Now tomorrow he gets to learn about "CC matching & chamber polishing"... :yahoo:
Randy - RPM
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: racerrad8 on August 20, 2015, 06:53:59 PM
Well, not much more to update at this point as we have been super busy, plus I was at work so Robert was waiting on my to continue to move forward.
So, today we finally got to get the head all dialed in by CC matching and have them all sized the same. The head is off to the machine shop for a 8:00am resurface of the gasket surface tomorrow morning.
Since he was waiting on me, Chris sent over the clutch we are using in the engine. It includes a billet basket, lock-up pressure plate and clutch cover required spacer.
I noticed in the spacer that the crankcase breather "port" (for lack of a better word) was very restrictive. This caused me some concern due to the need to allow crankcase pressures to escape to prevent blowing out a seal.
You can see the five holes they drilled for the gasses to pass through the spacer. You can see the ink mark where the case & gasket are void for the passage. Hell the sixth hole at the bottom does not even hit the port.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/247_zpsn9evk1c9.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/247_zpsn9evk1c9.jpg.html)
Here it is after a little drilling & filing, it will not hold any pressure back now.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/248_zpso9um3ej4.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/248_zpso9um3ej4.jpg.html)
Here is all of the fancy pants clutch parts, the goal is to make sure it does not slip as the 200 mph mark is reached.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/249_zpsyw1p6jvh.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/249_zpsyw1p6jvh.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/250_zpsnlbl73tg.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/250_zpsnlbl73tg.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/252_zpsca3phuu7.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/252_zpsca3phuu7.jpg.html)
More to go tomorrow as the rings are sized to the block, the head will be back from the machine shop and the final long block assembly should be done before I go home.
Randy - RPM
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: fj1289 on August 21, 2015, 11:49:40 AM
YEAH!!! :good2:
Didn't realize Randy had posted the engine pics here! Looks awesome! I'll bet this "little" 1350 put together by Randy with mild cams and a street head will out power the "big block" 1447 I put together with the drag head and cams...finally learned to let the pro do the engine!
A little nitrous is actually a fairly easy thing...a lot of nitrous is a lot more likely to bite back as you can see. Bad on me for not checking plugs between every run. AFR was good and the bike pulled like crazy - even on the last pass. Never knew something was out of sorts until tearing it down to send the head to Randy and saw the damage to the exhaust cam. Autopsy complete and lessons learned and changes being made to (hopefully) prevent it from happening again.
The goal is 200 mph in the standing mile.... this time out the three biggest priorities are to gain experience, learn what it will take to go faster, and keep on top of the tune so we have a strong running engine at the end of the weekend too!
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: racerrad8 on August 21, 2015, 06:41:19 PM
The head is finally complete, just in time for Friday night...
Here are RPM prepped & polished buckets next to unprepared buckets.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/005_zpsmuoj9dn1.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/005_zpsmuoj9dn1.jpg.html)
Here is the head with the intake cam installed getting all of the final valve adjustment completed.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/006_zpsxjqjc921.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/006_zpsxjqjc921.jpg.html)
Hard to get a good photo pf the chamber work right now, but will snap a few before the install.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/009_zps1boeh2aa.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/009_zps1boeh2aa.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/008_zpssu169trg.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/008_zpssu169trg.jpg.html)
Back to it early next week so it can be on the truck for Colorado by the 27th and back to Chris the following Monday.
I have had a couple people ask if they can donate to this cause to help defer some on the costs. If you would like to donate you can send any contributions directly to Chris via PayPal: [email protected]
More to come next week.
Randy - RPM
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: fj1289 on August 23, 2015, 02:29:39 PM
Lot of progress last couple weeks - although it seems like everything always takes a lot longer than you think it will! The three days wiring & testing was closer to two weeks.
This is the second time I've taken this bike down to the frame and wired it from scratch. Also the fifth time I've wired up a microsquirt (or microsquirt-based) fuel injection system. It doesn't really go much quicker -- but the end result is a lot neater despite being more complicated than the previous installs.
Dual LiPo batteries tucked in the tail section. The 2nd battery is used for starts and to run the nitrous bottle heater. Hard to see in this pic are the main relay (on right side of the seat loop) and the "fuel pump" relay - really a power distribution relay (on the left). Main relay gets activated by both the main switch (+) and the lanyard (-). This then provide 12 volt power to the ECU and (+) control to the fuel pump relay thru the kill switch. The ECU provides (-) control to the activate the fuel pump relay only when the engine is running. The fuel pump relay provides 12 volt power for the fuse panel. This setup should meet the electrical safety requirements for all the LSR (Land Speed Racing) organizations I know of.
Microsquirt mounted and wiring completed. Mounted the Microsquirt middle of the bike. Wire runs are split - most wire runs are on the right side of the bike - similar to the stock harness. Coil wires and shifter wires are run up the left side to avoid electrical interference as much as possible.
Dyna shift counter is used to activate nitrous automatically by gear. It is also used to disable the auto shift function in 5th gear in case I need a bit of over-rev at the end of the mile.
Fuse panel and 4! nitrous relays. One relay is the typical nitrous arming relay that provides power for the nitrous solenoid and the NC2000 progressive controller. The second relay is a 5 pin used to swap the starter button function from "start" in the NC (normally closed) position to a manual nitrous input using the NO (normally open) position whenever the nitrous arming relay is activated. The nitrous on-off switch is wired thru the hazard switch on the right handlebar control. (Using Hayabusa throttle and switchgear). The other two relays are used to get the Microsquirt ECU to work together with the Dyna shift counter and the nitrous controller. The Microsquirt uses ground signals for inputs and outputs. The shift counter and nitrous controllers use +12 volt signals. So the +12 volt activation signal from the shift counter has to be swapped to a ground signal to the Microsquirt input. Then the Microsquirt ground output has to be swapped to a +12 volt signal to activate the nitrous controller.
Shift relays are on the left side of the bike above the air shifter. There are two functions at play here - the "shift kill" and the "auto-shift".
The shift button completes the circuit to the shift solenoid sending high pressure air to the ram on the shift lever. A pressure switch on the ram grounds the Microsquirt shift input which kills the ignition for a specified period of time, unloading the transmission, and allowing the ram to complete the shift without using the clutch lever while maintaining WOT.
The Microsquirt has programmable output available. I'm using one to activate a shift light and to auto-shift. The programmable out activates a ground signal at a specified RPM. This ground completed the circuit for the shift solenoid. But the shift counter requires a +12 volt signal to function, so a relay is required to swap voltage once again. The second relay is another 5 pin relay used to de-activate the auto-shift function in 5th gear if a little over-rev is needed at the end of the run. (The rev limiter will be set a little higher than the shift RPM). The shift signal goes thru the NC pin. The shift counter sends a signal to the relay which opens the NC contact and interrupts the shift signal to the Microsquirt.
Shifter ram with solenoid and pressure switch. Operates in reverse shift pattern (all the more reason to use auto-shift!) using a solid shift lever.
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: fj1289 on August 26, 2015, 01:11:58 PM
You've seen the pics Randy posted of the carnage inflicted on the race head. Heat is the enemy - both short term and over the long term. There's probably several contributing factors -- too much ignition timing for the amount of nitrous used (couple ways that happened - both "learning points" for me), lack of airflow to the head, nitrous itself, mixture too rich (?! that one surprised me), not running an oil cooler (added one after the initial testing and tuning), and others I'm sure.
For now here's a couple solutions being built into the bike.
First is placing the oil cooler in the fairing. Should get better airflow and not block any frontal airflow to the engine. It may cause a bit more drag -- but we've decided better to come up a few mph short and leave the weekend with the engine in one piece than to go for broke on the first day and end up with a BIG "offering to the gods of speed"...
Second is to get a good supply of cooling air to the head and to force that flow over the cooling fins (similar to engine cooling in a piston powered airplane). Doing this with "snorkels" going through the fairing and ducts back to the head then through a baffle plate mounted to the head.
This was the initial mockup of the oil cooler. With the oil cooler mounted "upside down" at the bottom of the headlight opening I couldn't get enough room to run the hoses back to the head without chopping up the fairing stay. Final position for the cooler is mounted "right side up" at the top of the headlight opening (after trimming the bottom of the instrument housing...
Oil cooler moved up with the air intakes for head running underneath the oil cooler.
Cooling ducts to head
Blue painters tape will be replaced with fiberglass. In the future I'd like to spend some time coming up with alternatives for both the oil cooler intake and cooling air intakes, but this is probably about as good as it gets this time around.
Had to put all the bodywork on it for one quick motivational pic before departing on a work trip (Departed Sunday - pic taken Saturday night). Hope like hell we can stay on the timeline and I get back on Friday! (Well, that plan has gone to hell...looks like getting home on Sunday hopefully). If everything works out I'll get the fiberglass work completed over the weekend and be ready to receive the engine on Monday. Get it installed and get a good "street tune" done by Tuesday, dyno on Wednesday, and sign in and tech on Thursday....that's the plan anyway!
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: racerrad8 on August 26, 2015, 10:10:34 PM
Final assembly happened today as it is down to the wire as the truck will be here tomorrow afternoon to get the engine on the road to Colorado.
Getting the cams all dialed in for maximum horsepower.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/004_zpsilks2jvo.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/004_zpsilks2jvo.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/004_zpsilks2jvo.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/004_zpsilks2jvo.jpg.html)
Putting the oil pan on and buttoning up the bottom end.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/006_zpsspjpz9xw.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/006_zpsspjpz9xw.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/010_zpsqqs0yd58.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/010_zpsqqs0yd58.jpg.html)
Shameless plug...
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/008_zpsctfmvovn.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/008_zpsctfmvovn.jpg.html)
This lock-up clutch is something I have never experienced before and it had me worried. We have had the cover on & off a couple of times because the arms kept hitting the cover.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/009_zpsqjf5ygyp.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/009_zpsqjf5ygyp.jpg.html)
So, we did some clearance cutting to the inside of the cover and everything seemed to clear but one bolt.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/011_zpsjv8seyis.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/011_zpsjv8seyis.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/012_zpsz9q6bls7.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/012_zpsz9q6bls7.jpg.html)
I wasn't able to get the arm to stop hitting the hex or standard cap screw allen head bolt. So, I picked up some button head screws and by hand it no longer hit. So, onto the run stand it went to get some hours on it before Chris starts flogging it next week.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/012_zpsz9q6bls7.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/012_zpsz9q6bls7.jpg.html)
I got a couple of hours on it this afternoon & evening, but with the temps at 100f and the clouds rolling in the humidity was up in the 30% as well. So it was 15-20 minutes of run time followed by at least an hour of fans blowing on it to cool it down.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/013_zpslultz0so.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/013_zpslultz0so.jpg.html)
Everything sounds good, I have a fair amount of valve train noise as I set them pretty loose to break it in. But there was a slight knock in the lower end, but more so in the clutch area. Since I have no experience with that lock up clutch, I asked Chris if the levers of the clutch were just noisy flopping around in there or not. He wasn't sure and did not recall, so I pulled the cover to check...
Well, I need more clearance...
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/020_zpsnkvkmp2z.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/020_zpsnkvkmp2z.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/019_zpsjxysfi2i.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/019_zpsjxysfi2i.jpg.html)
You can see on the cover that the lever hit the screw and once the lever was bent it was then rubbing on the inside of the cover.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/018_zps4vustp5z.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/018_zps4vustp5z.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/016_zpsg8gn0wfq.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/016_zpsg8gn0wfq.jpg.html)
So, I pulled all of that stuff off and ran it for a little bit tonight with standard clutch parts in there and the knock is all gone. I have already straightened the arm and will clearance the cover more tomorrow and will be leaving that lower bolt out of the cover. Once those two things are done I do not foresee anymore clearance issues.
It will be on the truck heading for Colorado Thursday afternoon and Chris will hopefully be back to the US on Monday to get the engine picked up and installed by Tuesday. Hopefully everything goes well and some testing can happen on Wednesday. We are down to the wire to get to the mile.
Randy - RPM
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: Harvy on August 27, 2015, 12:34:40 AM
Hey Randy, what's the load on the other side of the run stand - looks like a hydraulic pump of some sort.
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: racerrad8 on August 27, 2015, 07:52:35 AM
Hey Randy, what's the load on the other side of the run stand - looks like a hydraulic pump of some sort.
Yes it is a hydraulic pump. I restrict the pressure side of the oil flow to create resistance to mimic road load so actual customer break in time can be reduced and or bypassed depending on what the engine is used for.
If you look closely the driveshaft is spinning.
Randy - RPM
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: Firehawk068 on August 27, 2015, 09:05:05 AM
This is awesome stuff!
Great work Randy. :good:
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: Harvy on August 27, 2015, 02:23:56 PM
If you look closely the driveshaft is spinning.
Randy - RPM
Yep. I noticed that.
Cheers mate
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: racerrad8 on August 27, 2015, 05:39:28 PM
Well, I was able to get another hour and a half break in on the engine today before having to run the valves, get the clutch sorted out and I pulled the pan to make sure I cleaned out any of the aluminum from the clutch cover. There was nothing in the pan as it was all still sitting below the clutch.
Here it is on the crate getting ready to head out to Colorado.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/001_zpsmwhtldiz.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/001_zpsmwhtldiz.jpg.html)
Another shameless plug...
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/002_zps6f7bpcqg.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/002_zps6f7bpcqg.jpg.html)
Here it is all boxed up and ready to go...
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/005_zpst9sxyo61.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/005_zpst9sxyo61.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/004_zpsvign87ba.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/004_zpsvign87ba.jpg.html)
My work here is done, the engine will be in Colorado on Monday and Chris' work will begin. He has a pretty good plan and I hope everything falls into place to make sure everything is done in plenty of time. Once again, if any of you locals guys can lend a hand Monday or Tuesday, give Chris a call and see how he is doing and see if he needs any help.
200 or bust...
Randy - RPM
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: X-Ray on August 27, 2015, 11:59:35 PM
Wow, incredible stuff. Love seeing photos of beasty engine rebuilds etc. Looks like it should do the job required, :drinks:
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: Bones on August 28, 2015, 01:13:39 AM
Randy, Would you have an estimate of what HP that motor would make. The standard FJ's 130hp :unknown: will get to 150mph, how much more do you think it would need to go an extra 50mph.
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: Bill_Rockoff on August 28, 2015, 06:56:01 AM
Power goes up with the cube of speed. (Roughly - power required to overcome aero drag does, rolling friction requires something closer to "square of speed" but aero drag is most of your drag at higher speeds.) To go 200 mph versus 150, you'd need (200/150)^3 times the horsepower - that's 2.37 times as much power.
Assuming 130 crank hp will get the bike in question to 150 mph, 310 hp ought to do it to get that bike to 200 mph. That's a bit more than 260 rwhp.
Since the Colorado Mile takes place at 5500' above sea level, a normally aspirated engine would lose about 16.5% of its power due to thinner air. Boost overcomes that a lot.
Start cleaning up the aero on an FJ (pull the mirrors, put some real thought into getting air past the engine and out the back) and you can make some serious progress.
Can't wait to read how you do!
PS I am old and my back starts to hurt by the time I am cleaning out carburetor #3, so I am as interested in the MicroSquirt as in the actual top speed reached.
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: ribbert on August 28, 2015, 07:29:28 AM
Power goes up with the cube of speed. (Roughly - power required to overcome aero drag does, rolling friction requires something closer to "square of speed" but aero drag is most of your drag at higher speeds.) To go 200 mph versus 150, you'd need (200/150)^3 times the horsepower - that's 2.37 times as much power........
Bill, I understand the formula, but aren't there plenty of stock bikes that go that fast without that sort of horsepower?
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: Bill_Rockoff on August 28, 2015, 08:27:14 AM
200 mph? Not that I've ever read about. The Suzuki EyeAbuser got about 190 mph pre-restriction, but its advantages over an FJ1100 are partly horsepower (160ish rwhp) and partly aero.
A 'busa with an FJ's motor in it would run a solid 10 mph faster than the FJ just because of the aero advantages it has. Its aero is so good that, assuming it would do a repeatable 190 mph with its stock 160 rwhp, you could expect 200 mph out of it with another 30 hp.
An FJ1100 with a stock Hayabusa's 160 rwhp would run mid-170's, a good 15 mph slower than the Hayabusa.
Much as I love the FJ, particularly for the sort of riding we all seem to do on it, we would do well to remember that it was developed in the early 1980s. People were just beginning to tape bits of yarn to things and photograph them with a fan blowing to try to see what the air was doing. The idea that the FJ's fairing should be different so it could top 160 mph instead of just 150 mph would have been nuts 30 years ago.
Air management through and behind the vehicle is still seeing development. Nissan developed a LeMans race car last year that is basically a trimaran / pontoon boat, with two huge ducts running between the wheels and cockpit.
Chris, you have cleared out a lot of space beneath the seat where the battery etc. normally goes. Is there a good way to route ducting through there? That would let you route air from the cylinder head / back of the oil cooler out under the seat; there is a big low-pressure area back there, and it would probably help cooling and reduce drag if you could let air IN at the front, and then BACK OUT by the top of the rear wheel. Aero-wise, this would be the internal equivalent of one of those aero humps on the back of a set of leathers these days. And it's gotta help cooling to let the hot air out after it passed across the head or through the oil cooler.
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: racerrad8 on August 28, 2015, 09:15:35 AM
Bones, I am not going to speculate on HP numbers, the goal is for some dyno time mid-next week to help get some of the final tune sorted out and maybe some HP numbers will come out of that.
The goal is to take smaller steps towards 200 instead of one big swing and if the goal is not reached, we learn a lot on the way and have better info for the next attempt. If we just take one big swing it could all come apart on the first run and then we learned nothing.
I understand the faster you go the harder it is to get there, but hopefully with the solid engine platform, EFI and the magic of nitrious the goal can be obtained.
Bill, we are going to be able just to dump air at the center of the head through the hose Chris is installing as he moved the fairing on the bike and the side scoops are not applicable anymore. There is not enough room, at least right now to plumb anything out the back, but maybe in the future. I also though about possibly leaving the side panels off as the low pressure behind the fairing will allow the air to the cooler/Head a place to escape.
That will have to be one of the back to back runs, to see if it makes a difference.
Randy - RPM
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: Pat Conlon on August 28, 2015, 11:07:13 AM
Chris, I assume with the starter delete you will be using a roller stand to start the beast, what tires are you going to run and what gearing?
Looking at the charts, I see the highest with the 170/60 and 18/38 good for 190mph at 10,500 rpm overun.
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: fj1289 on August 28, 2015, 06:18:44 PM
Quick reply for now – I'd really like to dive deeper into this than I've got time now unfortunately.
200 mph in a mile is a pretty tall order - even with a turbo Busa it's not a "given". I think it took Marc Rittner 3 years to accomplish that goal - of course I think he used over 300 cc's less and two fewer cylinders! I think he was the first to put a twin over 200 in the mile!
I think it is doable on an FJ - but don't expect it to be easy! (I also want to do this on something still recognizable as an FJ vice a generic looking LSR bubble wrapped motorcycle...
Bill – I think you are pretty much spot on with the numbers for the Busa, but you are mixing things a bit with the FJ numbers… The 130 HP for the FJ sounds like "factory crankshaft" numbers whereas the 160 HP sounds like "real world rear wheel" numbers for the Busa. If I remember correctly, the FJ puts about 105 HP to the rear wheel stock – or maybe 105 was the typical number with a pipe and stock is lower? Either way, lets use 105 for the stock FJ number (it should be somewhat conservative – i.e. should yield a slightly higher required HP number than what will be needed in the real world). I also recall the FJ NOT making it to 150 mph in the magazine tests – I remember 144? 146? 148? Lets call it 145.
So, plugging into the equation gives (200/145)^3 = 2.62. Multiply by our 105 HP = 275 HP. Ouch! (and pretty much what Bill said above about assuming more than 260 at the rear wheel) That's a lot!
But how bad is it? How much does a modified FJ put out? Frank Moore's 1350 put down 162 HP using stock sized valves and undisclosed cams. We might or may not be a little down due to cams - using the Megacyle "drop in" .375 lift, 257 duration (at .040"). Frank was after max mid range torque and reliability – Randy built for power AND reliability. So, I'm guessing 160 HP is a good rough guess to get us at least in the ball park: 160 x 83.5 (the 16.5% loss of power for altitude Bill mentioned) = 133.6 HP at the rear wheel in Denver, Colorado. So, a stock bodied FJ would require roughly double (plus a little more!) according to our calculations to go 200 mph. How good was the tuck of the magazine rider that tested the top speed? Pretty sure they removed the mirrors when testing the 1100 since they were bar mounted (but I think they left the fairing mounted mirrors on the 1200s – not that its really relevant to this discussion though). I have cleaned up the rear a bit - completely removed the entire rear under fender, etc and now have a flat undertail enclosing a thinned tail section. Will show better pictures once home. Unfortunately in the name of expediency I've had to add several button head bolts through the undertail to keep things in place. I've also cut the seat foam away for a lower profile. I will experiment with cutting the windscreen based on my tuck and how the wind feels coming off it. The bike is also lowered which will help reduce frontal area – as well as allow more aggressive acceleration early in the run. So, with the mods we MIGHT get by with less than 275 at the tire (and we might not!)
Lets make a run at this problem from another angle. Most stock Hayabusa's put around 160 HP to the ground. That's generally 40 HP short of what's required to get one to run 200 mph in a mile. That 200 HP is considered the MINIMUM you should entertain for even expecting 200 mph in the mile – and then everything needs to be done well with no adverse factors. A well known (and accomplished) land speed racer has stated removing the fairing on the Busa cost 14 mph. That minimum number now jumps up to the 245 HP range. How does an unfaired Busa compared to a faired FJ with some minor aero tweaks to the tail? I don't know – but I've got to think it's comparable. If so, 245 HP from 133 is a lot closer than 275…
How close are these guesses and assumptions? I guess we'll start finding out after the dyno on Wednesday and after the runs begin next Friday!
And like any good modifiers anonymous member – the mods I want to do for next time are mulitiplying!
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: fj1289 on August 28, 2015, 06:39:22 PM
Pat - no starter delete. The starter will go in once the engine gets here. I'll also be running an alternator on this to help ensure the power hungry EFI stays satisfied!
18/38 gearing -- I'll start there for my licensing runs. The trick up my sleeve there is the PM rims -- no cush drive means lots of room for small sprockets. I just received that 35 I ordered a week or so ago. (also have 33, 29 and 27 left over from last year's Bonneville preparations). It's a 180/55 17 tire -- my spreadsheet says 200 right at 11,000 RPM - not wheel slip of course! I'll have to see how much tire slip we are actually getting.
The mile is as much about acceleration as aero -- even more so the faster you run, so gearing can be critical.
The limit for a C class license (the one you get as a rookie) is good for 165 mph. To "license up" you need to make a run between 140 and 164 mph. The class B license will let you run up to 199 mph. To license up you need to make a run between 180 and 200 mph. The class A license limit is 220 mph. There's more after that, but I won't be concerned with that!
So the first two runs will be without the nitrous. First run will be in the neighborhood of 8,000 - 9,000 RPM in 5th. The second run will see what it will do WOT without the nitrous. That run plus the dyno sheet (plus critiques on my riding) will be very valuable info and give some hard numbers to work with)
Then we'll start with the nitrous runs beginning with a 40 HP shot in 4th and 5th gear, then starting in 3rd gear, then staring in 2nd - and see how the top speed changes. Then go back a gear or two and increase the nitrous and repeat.
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: fj1289 on August 28, 2015, 06:46:19 PM
I hadn't thought of the side panel idea...I'll bring an extra set to experiment with. Remove altogether, cut holes, remove portions, etc.
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: fj1289 on August 28, 2015, 07:08:07 PM
Oh - and with reference to the dyno numbers -- I consider them just that - numbers. The most useful way to use a dyno is to measure changes - trying to keep as many variables as constant as possible. One of the least useful ways to use them is to compare numbers between them! Each one is a unique, complex tool with many ways to measure the same thing and come up with a different result.
The dyno on Wednesday will simply be a tool to help get to the real measure of performance - the time slips! Wether it says 160 or 110, it's just a mark to work from now and to compare to in the future
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: Steve_in_Florida on August 28, 2015, 10:43:52 PM
Thank you very much for taking the time to write this up for us. :hi:
I makes us (me, anyway) feel like being part of something REALLY COOL!
200 MPH!! :good: :good:
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: Flynt on August 28, 2015, 11:20:08 PM
Thank you very much for taking the time to write this up for us. :hi:
I makes us (me, anyway) feel like being part of something REALLY COOL!
200 MPH!! :good: :good:
+1... I saw Rittner's Aprilia in progress and felt his excitement. Loving the chance to experience your project and progress. Please keep it coming.
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: Bones on August 29, 2015, 01:04:52 AM
All you need Chris is to get the FJ to rev to 14,000 rpm with the power that BMW is putting out and its in the bag. :good2:. Seriously, I hope you reach your goal, and I with surely a few others am watching this thread with great interest. Go the FJ. :yahoo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXkeSbt5m9g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXkeSbt5m9g)
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: fj1289 on August 30, 2015, 11:05:05 AM
So, what good is an adventure without a little background drama to spice things up?
I thought we had already added enough drama with all the difficulties with the engine build – but no matter how ugly the next problem was, Randy always figured out a way to get it handled and get the bullet out the door and on its way.
AOG is how we're spelling drama now…AOG (Aircraft On Ground) is the code used for expediting parts when an aircraft is broken and cannot continue to a repair station…
This AOG is a double whammy – right engine has a pretty substantial oil leak, and the right one has a fuel leak inside the engine cowl (think FJ1100 petcock x 1,000!). And crap! ... the one spare pilot we had is already on the crew because the chief pilot had to fly back commercial yesterday due to all the delays for his own wedding….the nerve of some people scheduling a wedding during the same time as a racing event! This whole endeavor was already delayed 3 ½ weeks (as a slew of 2 – 3 days slips from the scheduled completion at the repair station in Germany.
So, here I sit in the thriving metropolis known as Goose Bay trying to coordinate the logistical effort to get this bird back in the air and get home! At least it made it across the North Atlantic!
Plan A was to divert an aircraft returning to the US that has parts and mechanics on board already! They were due in today…and are now delayed until late Wednesday. #()*&!!!! :mad:
Plan B. The big question mark now is parts – the mechanics are leaving Denver now and won't get here until tomorrow morning. We haven't been able to source the parts for the oil cooler yet. Good news is they are hand carrying the fuel line and fittings. Bad news is there are no motel rooms anywhere for Tuesday night. If the FBO (Fixed Base Operator – kind of like an old fashioned service station for airplanes) can't arrange with the Canadian military for some space in their barracks, we'll be sleeping on the airplane. Trying to find the oil cooler and get it out here ASAP – and hopefully depart sometime Tuesday. Otherwise it looks like Thursday…#()*&!!! Again :ireful:
So…worst case now looks like engine install Thursday night…basic tuning during the day on Friday, and registration and tech on Friday afternoon. Then runs on Saturday and Sunday…
:flag_of_truce: Now, a plea for assistance…can someone pick up the engine at the shipping company (in NE Denver) and drop it in Franktown (S of Parker) on Monday or Tuesday this week? I haven't called yet to confirm arrival -- the office hours are M-F 7 am to midnight. It'll be a heavy (285#) wooden box just over 2' wide, just over 2' tall and 3' long on 1 ½" skids. It'll save a day if time really gets crushed at the end.
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: fj1289 on August 30, 2015, 11:33:43 AM
:dash2: And the mechanic's flight out of Denver just got cnx'd...he's working the changes now...
Luckily I guess we have a day for them ... the parts are still the long lead time...
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: fj1289 on August 30, 2015, 07:31:02 PM
Mechanics are back on track - one made it out as planned. One had a flight cancelled - he's headed out at midnight now.
Also figured out how to "repair" the oil leak without replacing the cooler and be "legal" to fly again. We both know the repair has almost no chance of working, but it will let us limp her home where real repairs can be made while the rest of the plane is being modified.
While sorting out the logistics for the plane, had a bit of time to be surfing the web and reading up on land speed racing forums -- the MAXIMUM OVERDRIVE section of suzukihaybusa.org is a pretty good site. Found a bit on Roland Sands trying to take an aircooled Victory to 200 mph. Looks like they fell a little short but a very cool project. 6:03 in this video is the answer to how I want to modify the FJ tank for the next go around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWbON8aFc-A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWbON8aFc-A) This should let me keep the FJ profile but still tuck in lower. Prior to finding this I was looking at how to cut the tank to a lower profile without messing up the FJ lines too badly... http://www.suzukihayabusa.org/forum/index.php?topic=131825.0 (http://www.suzukihayabusa.org/forum/index.php?topic=131825.0)
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: fj1289 on August 31, 2015, 12:46:42 PM
:hi: Huge thanks to Alan - he's volunteered to pick up the engine tonight and drop it at the house! :yahoo: It's a huge help that'll get this beast ready a day sooner! :drinks:
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: fj1289 on August 31, 2015, 07:40:09 PM
Well, we've talked about getting up to speed in a mile...how about a discussion about the other half...stopping.
There have been some concerns posted on a couple of other sites about the stopping distance available at the Colorado Mile.
The runway at Front Range airport (KTFG) is 8000' long. There are no overruns or underruns ("extra" pavement at the end or beginning of a runway that's often useful in emergencies – or used as a "safety zone" when you really want to pack as much as you can on an airplane to make as much money as you can…), so there's no additional length we can use for our car or motorcycle at this event. So, 8,000 – 5,280' (the mile long race course) = 2,720' or about 80' more than a half mile. Since this is a marked out 1 mile and you have to have at least SOME room to line people up (and you aren't allowed to "roll onto" the track) – for the sake of discussion let's say that "extra" 80' gets used for staging. We've got 2,640' to get stopped in then. Or maybe not – you really don't need to be completely stopped by the end – you really only need to slow down enough to make the turn off…let's call that 30 mph? Maybe 20 mph? After a good high speed blast that will probably feel slow enough to think you could pop down the side stand and just walk away at that point!
How long does it take to slow down from speed? Mr. Scott Guthrie (google him – he knows a thing or two about going fast and getting slowed back down) had a good reply on this over at hayabusa.org. Here is a shameless cut and paste from there:
[NOTE – this discussion was based on the use of a shorter airfield in another country for a ½ mile event and would only have ¼ mile for the shut down area]
"A good answer can be easily calculated with a little simple arithmetic.
1) Assume you will travel at least an additional 1/2 second
before you can get on the brakes hard.
1/2 second is pretty quick, since you would not want to "hammer "
the front brake, and skid the front tire........
a) at 200 MPH, 1/2 second about
equals 1.466 x 200 x 0.5,
so about = 150 feet.
2) From 200 mph, a MotoGP rider, on typical runway pavement,
could probably achieve a reliable deceleration rate of f = 1.2.
A skilled rider, would maybe develop f = 1.0 decel,
and a typical street rider would achieve f = 0.8 decel.
3) One can use a standard formula to calculate stopping distance from a known speed.
a) Distance (d) about equals the speed (S) squared,
divided by the deceleration factor times the constant 30.
b) d = S squared / 30f.
4) Examples:
a) stopping distance from 200 mph if you are as good as a MotoGP star.
a1) d = 200 squared divided by 1.2 PLUS the "reaction" distance of about 150 feet.
a2) 200 squared = 40,000
a3) 40,000 / 1.2(30) = 1,100 feet of decel.
a4) add the reaction distance of 150 feet
a5) stopping distance for the MotoGP rider is 1,250 feet.
b) For the "skilled" rider the total stopping distance
about equals 1,350 + 150 = 1,500 feet
c) for the average rider, the total distance = 1,650 + 150 = 1,800 feet.
5) Assume you have 1/4 mile of paved shutdown, which today = 1,320 feet.
a) The MotoGP man stops with 70 feet ( 3 - 4 car lengths) to spare. Are you that good ?
b) The "skilled guy" needs 1,500 feet, but has only 1,320 feet.
b1) 1,500 - 1,320 = 180 feet.
b2) "Skilled guy" goes off the end of the track at about 75 mph (reverse calculation)
c) "Average guy" needs 1800 feet, and goes into the dirt at almost 110 mph
c1) Think about riding your 'Busa' at 100 in soft dirt, with trash and stumps...."
The late Bill Warner shows the perils of going a bit fast for the course on a 278 mph run (HOLY CRAP!) at the Texas Mile. For anyone that doesn't know – Bill Warner set the all time speed record for a sit-on bike at 311 mph at Loring Maine.
http://jalopnik.com/5708174/ride-to-2786-mph-with-the-worlds-fastest-streetbike (http://jalopnik.com/5708174/ride-to-2786-mph-with-the-worlds-fastest-streetbike)
Bottom line of all this? That ½ mile should be "plenty" of stopping room – even if you allow for a second and a half to roll off the throttle and ease into the brakes. The critical part is to begin slowing at the line and not run through it too far. Most of the accidents at these 1 mile courses occur when someone "zones out" going past the 1 mile markers and don't start slowing or are so focused on keeping their head down they miss the marker or get distracted watching the tach or a GPS speedo they miss the markers. So, "plenty of room" – just not much room for mistakes!
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: fj1289 on September 01, 2015, 07:17:07 AM
Airplane is fixed! Airborne in an hour - "should" make it in tonight - but we do have one more fuel stop to nurse this bird thru...
Here's the culprit (for the oil leak anyway!)
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: Steve_in_Florida on September 01, 2015, 07:55:29 AM
That's almost a late-model colour scheme on that plane. Did *YOU* have any influence on that?
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: fj1289 on September 01, 2015, 08:19:16 AM
No Steve - the Air Force spec'd that color scheme -- I'd of gone with red and silver! :pardon:
They also painted the small Polish built STOL planes I used to ferry across with a very similar paint scheme.
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: Firehawk068 on September 01, 2015, 07:46:33 PM
Delivery was successful! :yahoo:
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/FJ1200/26EF3079-C39D-4203-A1C5-2410811ADB9B_zpsonas9rvy.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/FJ1200/26EF3079-C39D-4203-A1C5-2410811ADB9B_zpsonas9rvy.jpg.html)
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/FJ1200/20B9CF9C-0D37-4C67-B8F8-39C39170C701_zps2bngsoln.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/FJ1200/20B9CF9C-0D37-4C67-B8F8-39C39170C701_zps2bngsoln.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: Pat Conlon on September 01, 2015, 08:46:37 PM
You are the best Alan!
It will be a busy next couple of days.
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: fj1289 on September 01, 2015, 10:20:33 PM
You are the best Alan!
It will be a busy next couple of days.
X10 to both of those!
Made it in tonight - too tired to trust myself to work tonight. But I do have time off of work now! Don't think I'll make the dyno tomorrow though.
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: fj1289 on September 04, 2015, 07:48:06 PM
Quick update - thrash fest continues. Fairing miss complete and getting painted (rattle cans). Tried getting engine up and going -- had a failing fuel pump give us fits. Didn't want to start until we have it a LOT more fuel than expected. Then wouldn't stay running. Pulp wasn't putting out full pressure and eventually seized. Spent last 4 hours getting a new pump. We WILL be there in the morning for the drivers meeting and tech!
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: jscgdunn on September 09, 2015, 03:56:39 PM
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: fj1289 on September 09, 2015, 05:53:39 PM
Well...you can tell from the lack of updates or news we didn't get to run.
Got the bike finished up Friday night - but couldn't get it to crank.
Still loaded up and went to the airport on Saturday - confident that with a little work we'd get it running and use the first couple runs as tuning runs. No such luck. We could get it to crank, but not stay running for more than a few seconds.
Sunday we stayed at home and tried all day. Never got it to run for more than 45 seconds or so.
Microsquirt kicked my butt. Thought I had a decent time and map to start from ... appears I was wrong! The first two engines I installed Microsquirt on went a LOT easier. I'm sure there's something I'm overlooking -- and will kick myself when I find it!
Bright side I guess is I'll be leaving the race bike setup and ready to roll once it's going...3 "builds" in the last 12 months has been a bit much! Once this is up and running I'll take it to the dyno to help sort the tune -- then it will be ready to go.
Then time to get the street bike back on the road -- without robbing anything off the race bike!
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: Harvy on September 09, 2015, 11:47:34 PM
Well...you can tell from the lack of updates or news we didn't get to run.
I'm sure there's something I'm overlooking -- and will kick myself when I find it!
That's a bummer Chris....... don't kick too hard mate!
Maybe a set of BIG carbs still running the NOX in your future???
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: fj1289 on September 10, 2015, 09:56:35 AM
Well...you can tell from the lack of updates or news we didn't get to run.
I'm sure there's something I'm overlooking -- and will kick myself when I find it!
That's a bummer Chris....... don't kick too hard mate!
Maybe a set of BIG carbs still running the NOX in your future???
We thought about hanging a set of stock carbs on it Saturday night and leaving everything else wired up to the Microsquirt. I wasn't sure how the CV carbs would react to the nitrous and fuel being injected at the throats of the carbs. I don't have a set of flat slides that are set up anymore - all that stuff was stolen some years back with the trailer. In the end, I decided running with the Microsquirt was part of the plan so I'd focus my energies on getting it up and running. Still working thru issues -- now I'm thinking the VE map (fuel map) is way off for some reason -- and that throws off all the fuel calculations that are used as soon as the engine lights off and tries to continue running. I've got two plans of attack to pursue - first I'm trying to work off the "default" settings and calculated base map in order to rule out errors that may have been built into the old tunes and maps I started with. Going to an old tune that worked well with a similar engine was the plan -- but when one of my laptops took an unfortunate nose dive, I lost a LOT of data from the last couple years. The other option is to resurrect an old tune I had uploaded to a file sharing site -- but it is based on a different firmware version and is throwing out a lot of configuration errors. I can probably pull in the fuel table to a new tune, but all the start tables are going back to default.
The EFI gives some definite advantages for a project like this. Carbs are simpler, but then require a lot of additional boxes to reach this level of functionality - and even then it's not as well integrated as with the ECU.
I've gotten to the same point twice now - cranks easy but struggles to stay running. Tried increasing the VE table and reducing the ASE (after start enrichment) and WUE (warm up enrichment). Didn't respond as well as I expected - so it's back to the previous point and build from there.
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: jscgdunn on September 10, 2015, 10:48:58 AM
Very interesting to watch you guys work together to do this. Jeff
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: Pat Conlon on September 10, 2015, 11:09:42 AM
Hey Chris, sorry to hear of your issues with the FI, but when you get that system dialed in it will be well worth it (vs slapping on some FCR's)
How about getting on the list for the Texas Mile coming up on October 23-25th: https://www.texasmile.net/ (https://www.texasmile.net/)
Cheers ladie
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: fj1289 on September 10, 2015, 03:15:11 PM
Very interesting to watch you guys work together to do this. Jeff
This effort has definitely involved a few people - I'm sure as we go along it will include more. A big shout out to Randy for everything he went thru getting this engine together. And thanks to Alan for volunteering to brave Denver lunch hour traffic to pick it up.
The learning curve is fairly steep -- and Randy keeps asking the hard questions so I don't forget how steep it is and how much is left to climb! The goal is to keep the "image" and soul of the FJ intact, but it will morph a bit as we gain experience and learn as we go.
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: fj1289 on September 10, 2015, 03:18:15 PM
Hey Chris, sorry to hear of your issues with the FI, but when you get that system dialed in it will be well worth it (vs slapping on some FCR's)
How about getting on the list for the Texas Mile coming up on October 23-25th: https://www.texasmile.net/ (https://www.texasmile.net/)
Cheers ladie
I'd love to do Texas! Work has got me clobbered in Sept and Oct. That weekend in October I will probably be bringing an airplane back from Jordan. If it goes as planned we'll be starting over the N Atlantic about that time.
Where are you located in AZ? End of Sept I think I'll be in Phoenix for a couple weeks conducting some training - not sure which airfield we'll be working out of yet.
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: fj1289 on September 16, 2015, 06:42:35 PM
SH!TF()[email protected]!T<H!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :ireful:
Seems when I had to replace the fuel pump -- I got a bad replacement pump... :dash2:...needless to say I'm pretty bent about that one! :bad:
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: fj1289 on September 17, 2015, 08:54:57 AM
I've been working ( more like :dash2: ) on this thing daily for two weeks trying to get it cranked. Thought I had a pretty good handle on tuning with the microsquirt system - but have really been doubting my tuning abilities through all this. After all, I had tunes from both a stock FJ1200 and a modified 1314 to work from -- how hard "should" it be?
Well, hard enough to keep me from getting this thing to run for two weeks! I could consistently get it to crank, and got to where I could usually get it to run for a little while at a slow idle - but only in cranking mode. After it went into run mode (with after start enrichment and warm up enrichment added) it would stumble - sometimes catching itself in crank mode, but usually dying. I finally managed to get to where I could get it up to operating temp and occasionally run for a short period of time in run mode -- and a few times got it to run long enough to come out of after start enrichment fuel only to die as the pulse width decreased to just the warm up fueling. Problem was all my settings were VERY rich to get to that point. Like 5-10 times the amount of fuel that I thought "should" be needed. The most important part of tuning is to give the engine what IT wants -- not what YOU want it to have. But in the back of my mind it kept nagging at me. With each "new" tune, different ECU settings, injector swap, fuel swap, etc it kept coming back to the same situation of needing to be very rich to crank and run and somewhat idle - but wouldn't take any throttle.
Checked for vacuum leaks, throttle body issues, ignition issues, anything I could think of or was recommended to me to pursue. Finally got past being stuck on a vacuum leak and started thinking about fuel delivery issues. Last night I fabricated a way to splice in a fuel pressure test gauge to the system. ZERO fuel pressure. WTF!!! The new pump was bad. :ireful:
I suddenly went from seriously doubting my abilities to tune the microsquirt system to complete disbelief that I got the engine to run at all - much less run long enough to get up to temp. -- on gravity feed only to the injectors!
I temporarily hooked up the old 1999 Hayabusa external fuel pump ( a huge monstrosity I started with almost three years ago) and reinstalled a baseline tune -- it started and ran first try! I still need to tweak the crank and warm up settings and do a full tune - BUT IT'S ALIVE!
I'm out of town now thru the weekend - so setting this thing set up properly will have to wait until next week.
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: Firehawk068 on September 17, 2015, 09:30:50 AM
Glad you found the fuel pump issue.
It's probably a good thing you didn't get to make a nitrous run, and have the thing fail mid-pass.
Title: Re: Colorado Mile - Sept 4-6
Post by: jscgdunn on September 17, 2015, 04:16:59 PM
Sounds pretty cool...looked up the micro-squirt. But how does the MS get a signal to fire the injectors?
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: Pat Conlon on September 18, 2015, 11:16:03 PM
From a XJR crank rotor. The injectors fire in batch mode.
A cam angle sensor is needed for the injectors to fire secquentally.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: jscgdunn on September 20, 2015, 09:36:19 AM
Thanks Pat,
Makes sense,
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on September 20, 2015, 10:47:16 PM
Jeff - like Pat said I'm using a late model XJR toothed wheel - though I've gone through a few iterations getting to this point.
Microsquirt can be used numerous ways - fuel only, spark only, or fuel and spark. People have even used them to control secondary injectors independent of the ECU -- or there is even special firmware to use for a transmission controller.
For a fuel only install, it's possible to take the tach signal off the coil ground - or to piggy back the stock pick ups. For ignition control you need a minimum of a toothed wheel on the crankshaft for wasted spark (same as used by the stock FJ system).
I'm currently using batch injection on two channels. Injectors 1 & 4 and 2 & 3 are paired - like on the ignition coils. With the large injectors on the race bike I'm using 2 squirts, alternating, untimed. With the "stock" sized injectors on the street bike I want to try 4 squirts alternating timed -- known as semi-sequential injection. It may make for slightly smoother running at low RPMs - but won't be noticeable at high RPMs
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: jscgdunn on September 21, 2015, 12:24:43 AM
Thanks...I was wondering if the stock pickups might work.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on September 21, 2015, 11:59:53 PM
Finally had about 45 minutes to spend getting the engine up and running with the temp fuel pump this evening. Took 3 or 4 iterations reducing the cranking pulse table in 10 percent steps and increasing the warm up on 10 percent steps 4 or 5 times as well as the after start enrichment 1 or 2 times. It now starts quickly and is fairly stable while coming up to operating temp. Also responds reasonably well to the throttle when free-revving. Should be good enough to start some road tuning tomorrow!
This is exactly how I expected it to go two weeks ago....
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on January 07, 2016, 10:37:00 PM
A little work getting done on the race bike over the winter. First is de-modding the fairing and putting it back on the original mounting points and reinstalling the stock cooling scoops. At the same time taking the oil cooler out of the fairing and moving it back to the stock location. The purpose of all this is to make sure the engine benefits from the cooling systems as Yamaha intended.
Since there's quite a bit of cutting out fiberglass work, the fairing needs to be repainted. Although I really like the 84 silver and red paint scheme -- I haven't been able to find a good rattle can silver (tried maybe 10 different brands/colors). So - time to change it up a bit. Still want to keep the "classic" FJ look -and make it easy to touch up. Decided to go with a satin white and satin red in the same scheme as the 84 silver and red. I painted a white base coat about 6 weeks ago. It's gotten cold enough now I had to move a couple space heaters into the garage - still a bit colder than the recommended temp but seems to have worked well.
The red turned out to be a more "brick" than I wanted, but will work for a season or two - and it got the approval of my 8 year old daughter.
I ordered new decals from doityourselflettering.com. They aren't an exact match but I think they'll look good. The bike number and class will go on the side of the fairing, the FJ1100 for the sidecovers, and the small Yamaha for the tail.
I've also got the Yamaha decals for the tank and black sheets to cut for the stripes from tapeworks when I first put the drag bike together.
Next will be taking it to the dyno late Feb or early March. Anxious to see the torque curve and see how it relates to gearing and speed. Also want to use the dyno to help tune the added fuel and spark retard for the nitrous -- and see what it does!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on February 18, 2016, 11:30:27 PM
Big change for this year - bike is ready!
Finished up paint and decals. Street rims and tires in place for now. The microsquirt is up and running (with a good fuel pump!) with a decent street tune on Sunoco E85R with Subaru WRX STi "pink" injectors.
The plan is to go to the dyno at MadMoto in Denver next month. Want to get a good idea of the power curve, tweak the high rpm area of the fuel map, and calibrate the first level or two of the nitrous jetting.
Then Bandimere opens late April. Plan there will be to simulate the first part of a land speed run vice a full-on drag strip run. The focus will be to make sure all the systems are working together well - air shifter and ignition kill time, the activation of nitrous by gear, progressive nitrous controller settings, and the dry nitrous fuel and ignition settings in the microsquirt.
In mid June they are running the Pikes Peak Airstrip Attack at the Colorado Springs airport. It's a half mile event - another chance to prep for the Colorado Mile. The event includes side by side roll races (cars only) and 1/2 mile trap speeds. Have to see if an upcoming overseas contract is going to conflict with this event.
Then the Colorado Mile will be Labor Day weekend. Should be ready this time!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: racerrad8 on February 19, 2016, 10:40:02 AM
FIFY :dance2:
Big change for this year - bike is ready!
Randy - RPM
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on February 19, 2016, 11:16:13 AM
Thanks! It previewed good on my phone... :pardon:
Going to try to take advantage of the weather here and get it out a couple times this weekend - tweak the base line tune, check the airshifter/autoshift function, and check the ECU tuning and progressive controller settings for the lowest level nitrous jets for 2nd and 3rd gear. Then I'll be satisfied she's ready to go to the dyno.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on February 22, 2016, 03:23:07 PM
Took it out for a quick test on Sunday. Its definitely a strong running engine! :good2:
Air shifter worked - along with auto shifting from the ECU - but seemed to get some electrical feedback from the air shifter solenoid. The feedback appears to be resetting the ECU which interferes with the nitrous operation on the ECU side. Ordered a couple diodes that should clear up any electrical noise from the shift solenoid. Also need to go over the recent changes to the wiring to see if any of it could be the cause. More testing needed - but there's plenty of time now!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on February 24, 2016, 07:39:33 PM
While working on this I've been looking for any FJs with some kind of proof of going 200 mph. One of the closest that seemed a reasonable claim was on here a few years ago. He was selling a chassis that he claimed they had run 190's at Maxton with a big bore engine on nitrous. He said they never could quite get it to 200 mph -- thought it may have been an issue with airflow into the engine.
I assume Black Sunshine had enough horsepower - don't know if he had it setup for that kind of top end. It takes more than just gearing for that - sustainable fuel flow, oiling and cooling, etc. But while reading thru the articles on Black Sunshine I saw his reference to an FJ1380 Turbo Nitrous entry in an early UFO competition. After a bit of research I found the article and then found the magazine on eBay.
Unfortunately there's no listed estimated horsepower. The performance figures were 9.25 at 154.63 mph, and top speed of 214.285 mph! Body work looks like mostly stock FJ1100 fairing with stock FJ1200 tail (with the rear fender removed).
I've tried scanning the article - half the pages are getting cut off. Here are the page on the FJ and the page with the results.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on February 29, 2016, 11:17:39 PM
Had some time this weekend to do some troubleshooting on the air shifter and nitrous systems. Rewired the shift system to simplify the setup (removed a relay) and use the ECU to directly trigger the shift solenoid (using the grounded output). It worked well on the first test ride - both shifting off the button and letting the ECU autoshift. But the nitrous system wouldn't fire. It took while to sort, but the Dyna shift counter (DSC) wasn't receiving the shift signal. The DSC "counts" the shifts from the air shifter so it acts like a very basic gear position sensor. The DSC is set to send a signal to the ECU to arm the nitrous in second gear -- then the ECU activates the nitrous based on an RPM window and minimum throttle position.
In order to get the shift signal to the DSC, I went back to using a delay to "swap" the ground signal from the ECU to a 12 volt signal needed for the DSC. This required rewiring the shift solenoid and the shift button too.
Two more test rides and all systems are tested and good to go!
Now, back to a problem that raised it's head last year -- one of three ECU general purpose inputs doesn't function. Two inputs are used for the shift kill and for the nitrous. I'd like to get the third input functioning - to use for the map switch function. This may be a firmware issue, or may be a hardware issue - either internal to the microsquirt or external.
The plan would be to use the third input to switch to a "small" nitrous map -- for a small stage shot of nitrous. Then use the current nitrous setup for the large second stage shot.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on March 02, 2016, 07:30:47 PM
Had a little fun in the garage this morning....
Pieces of foil and charred black stuff it blew out!
Put the batteries on the chargers to top them off before riding to work today (while the front end on my pathfinder was disassembled). This was an OLD ballistic 12 cell battery I purchased for the initial build of the drag bike - maybe 7 or 8 years ago. This battery has been abused repeatedly -- fully discharged, over charged, under charged, etc. Amazed it lasted this long - and was probably over due for a cell to "pop". That's a big difference between the first generation " shrink wrapped" LiPo batteries and the current ones with internal balancing and cell protection like the Shorai batteries RPM carries.
The fiberglass battery tray handled it OK - no real damage. Hope I can find another battery that will fit in the same space.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: Pat Conlon on March 02, 2016, 08:23:04 PM
That looks exciting :shok:
Did it make a noise?
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: FJmonkey on March 02, 2016, 08:26:35 PM
That looks exciting :shok:
Did it make a noise?
Looks like it took place in perfect silence... At least when the tree fell, no MAN was wrong... :sarcastic:
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on March 02, 2016, 09:08:49 PM
That looks exciting :shok:
Did it make a noise?
It was more of a loud pop than a bang. I had some trouble getting the charger to start charging it -- but I occasionally have a little trouble from this charger and didn't think anything of it. Maybe 10 or 15 minutes later I heard a small pop - turned and looked from across the garage but didn't see anything out of sorts. Then a couple minutes later the loud pop and a bunch of smoke. Quickly pulled the charger off the pigtail, yanked the quick disconnect, and pulled the battery out with a pair of pliers.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: giantkiller on March 03, 2016, 07:43:59 AM
I always heard they could blow up. But always just dismissed it. But over the years I've had 2 conventional car batteries blow up on forklifts. That I was sitting on at the time. One had enough force to bend the side of the hood out a couple of inches. Now that was exciting.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on March 03, 2016, 02:41:20 PM
I'd much rather have one of these cells pop than have a car battery go! I'm thinking the whole acid thing would be a lot more dangerous...
I'm working through three different replacement options now -- found a company called MOTY that makes the "shrink wrapped" style LiPo batteries that would pretty much be a direct replacement, a small cased Shorai that will fit in the same place with some minor mods, or a larger EarthX LiPo that has built in cell balancing and over discharge protection -- but would have to be mounted somewhere else (swing arm maybe? - between the nitrous bottle and the shock).
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: jscgdunn on March 03, 2016, 03:21:53 PM
I'd much rather have one of these cells pop than have a car battery go! I'm thinking the whole acid thing would be a lot more dangerous...
I'm working through three different replacement options now -- found a company called MOTY that makes the "shrink wrapped" style LiPo batteries that would pretty much be a direct replacement, a small cased Shorai that will fit in the same place with some minor mods, or a larger EarthX LiPo that has built in cell balancing and over discharge protection -- but would have to be mounted somewhere else (swing arm maybe? - between the nitrous bottle and the shock).
I think you want to go with the LiFePO batteries. They are typically used in motorcycles
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery)
https://www.batterystuff.com/powersports-batteries/LFX14L2-BS12.html (https://www.batterystuff.com/powersports-batteries/LFX14L2-BS12.html)
Lipo batteries are more finicky:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_polymer_battery (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_polymer_battery)
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on March 03, 2016, 08:35:47 PM
You are spot on about the lithium iron batteries -- pretty sure that is about the only ones sold now unless you go specifically looking for them. Then again - maybe I need to double check a couple of my options...
I should have been more clear - I use "LiPo" to refer to all the Lithium based batteries.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: jscgdunn on March 04, 2016, 11:50:27 AM
Yes it is pretty confusing.....I was looking into to build my own battery.....I know I saw the shrink wrapped ones like the one in your pic somewhere in China for $49.00...good quality individual cells (A23) are around $10.00 each. There are a few you tube videos on how to build your own.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on March 05, 2016, 12:38:55 AM
Yes it is pretty confusing.....I was looking into to build my own battery.....I know I saw the shrink wrapped ones like the one in your pic somewhere in China for $49.00...good quality individual cells (A23) are around $10.00 each. There are a few you tube videos on how to build your own.
I thought about that - but decided not to with the potential to damage the cells with the sustained heat of soldering vice the quick spot weld.
Doing some more research I think I'm going to go with an EarthX lithium battery. This battery gets used as a 24volt starting battery and to power the nitrous bottle warmer. The latter tends to over discharge the battery. The EarthX battery has a built in protection against over discharge, shorts, over charge, etc. I know that would have saved me more than once with the old battery!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on March 08, 2016, 11:31:48 AM
Reviewed some of the recent datalogs and noticed something that looked wrong. I've never been satisfied that the battery voltage being recorded by the microsquirt was accurate, but I always chalked it up to either differential grounds or needing to "calibrate" the voltage to the microsquirt. What I noticed was the voltage DECREASING with increased RPMs... So I checked it with a multimeter in the driveway - yep, not charging. :negative:
Did a little troubleshooting -- the rotor is bad. Time to push the easy button and swap in a spare alternator -- NOPE! My spares are FJ1100 cases that require the old (and I think discontinued) "wide" o-ring. I've been down this road before....the oil leak appears to be coming from the seal around the clutch rod (aka kitty killer). Replace that seal and you still have a leak -- only to start tracing the leak UP to the alternator. Eventually I talked myself into disassembling the two alternators and swapping the good rotor into the 1200 alternator case. This means I have to solder the stator leads back to the rectifier. I suck at soldering. Maybe part of it is my tools suck for soldering -- probably both are to blame! I have to "tune-up" my soldering gun (the tip tends to not heat up well if I don't disassemble it and clean all the contacts each time I try to mangle something with it -- then again, using it for fairing repairs probably didn't do it any favors either!). Seems to put out OK heat - and the repairs seems solid.
Get the bike out for a quick run - everything seems good. Download the data -- yay! 14.4 - 14.8 volts! But wait, after I turn around and head back, I'm only seeing 12.3 - 12.8 or so...WTF! :dash2:
Dug into it again last night - found one of my solder joints had come loose - only connected to 2 of 3 diodes. Tuned up the solder gun again - seemed a lot hotter this time - and the solder seems to flow well into the joint. Driveway test confirms good function again. Hopefully I'll get a chance to try it again this evening. Seems like it's always something!
Now I'm thinking the alternator hasn't really been putting out good power from the beginning -- and maybe the battery isn't as weak as I suspected. :pardon: Either way, the EarthX should be here today or tomorrow. Interested to see how easily it spins over the engine. Wondering if I can simplify the electrics back to a single battery -- and have enough power to also run the nitrous bottle warmer...I could eliminate a battery, not have to charge up two batteries between runs, free up space in the tail for a second nitrous controller...
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: jscgdunn on March 08, 2016, 12:06:13 PM
Yes it is pretty confusing.....I was looking into to build my own battery.....I know I saw the shrink wrapped ones like the one in your pic somewhere in China for $49.00...good quality individual cells (A23) are around $10.00 each. There are a few you tube videos on how to build your own.
Here it is:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/13-2v2-2ah-A123-18650-motorcycle-start-battery-12v-new-a123-battery-pack/191553460641?_trksid=p2050601.c100085.m2372&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140211132617%26meid%3Da5bf2c1093cf42bd803613d19476c2eb%26pid%3D100085%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D191553460641%26clkid%3D3852402997816413898&_qi=RTM2247625 (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/13-2v2-2ah-A123-18650-motorcycle-start-battery-12v-new-a123-battery-pack/191553460641?_trksid=p2050601.c100085.m2372&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140211132617%26meid%3Da5bf2c1093cf42bd803613d19476c2eb%26pid%3D100085%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D191553460641%26clkid%3D3852402997816413898&_qi=RTM2247625)
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on March 08, 2016, 05:05:25 PM
Yes it is pretty confusing.....I was looking into to build my own battery.....I know I saw the shrink wrapped ones like the one in your pic somewhere in China for $49.00...good quality individual cells (A23) are around $10.00 each. There are a few you tube videos on how to build your own.
Here it is:
[url]http://www.ebay.ca/itm/13-2v2-2ah-A123-18650-motorcycle-start-battery-12v-new-a123-battery-pack/191553460641?_trksid=p2050601.c100085.m2372&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140211132617%26meid%3Da5bf2c1093cf42bd803613d19476c2eb%26pid%3D100085%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D191553460641%26clkid%3D3852402997816413898&_qi=RTM2247625[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.ca/itm/13-2v2-2ah-A123-18650-motorcycle-start-battery-12v-new-a123-battery-pack/191553460641?_trksid=p2050601.c100085.m2372&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140211132617%26meid%3Da5bf2c1093cf42bd803613d19476c2eb%26pid%3D100085%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D191553460641%26clkid%3D3852402997816413898&_qi=RTM2247625[/url])
Two gotchas on that one: it's only an 8 cell, and it's using the small 18650 mah cells vice the 26650 cells. The AH rating of that battery is only 2.2 AH -- a 12 cell made with 26650s is 6.9 AH! It would take three of the $49 batteries to come close to the 12 cell (2665part! -- on eBay can be had for $123.
Since I know I'll be using this one hard I'm going with the built in BMS on the EarthX. I've already lost $600 in entry fees due to a bad $100 part - so a little insurance seems smart to me!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on June 15, 2016, 01:40:53 PM
Went to test-n-tune at Bandimere last Wednesday night to do a good shakedown and systems check on the race bike. Overall, a very good night testing - nothing broken! I think we've got an ignition timing issue figured out (definately don't want to wipe out any more cylinder heads or worse!) and working thru a shifing issue (seems to be a combination of kill time and shifter linkage). Uncovered a datalogging issue - that's going to take a bit more work.
Good to get back out into a race setting again - suprising how out of practice you can get - remembering little things like turning on the bottle for the air shifter (1st run was foot shift only...) or having tools setup for particular tasks. Even just getting packed to go I felt out of synch. I'll make a few more trips out to the dragstrip before the Colorado Mile event in September to keep tweaking both me and the bike.
I didn't set up the bike for the dragstrip since the purpose was tuning and shakedown vice putting down killer passes. I went with the street tires and rims (Conti Motions on YZF1000 rims) and street gearing 18/42. That gearing should be good for 150's -- a lot more than I'm expecting to see tonight.
Plan was for one or two NA (normally aspirated) runs to check all the systems, the basic tune, and the rider. Then start progressing to nitrous runs - starting with a small shot (25 HP) in 4th gear, then starting in 2nd gear, then up to 50 HP in 4th gear, etc. No higher than 50 HP on the nitrous for tonight and all "fixed" hits to help keep the tuning simple. Big concern for tonight was watching the spark plugs and making sure we don't get into detonation trouble again. I had done a quick test of the 25 HP N2O jets on the street several weeks ago with very conservative settings and showed signs of melting on two of the plug straps again. I double checked all the settings and everything was in order. WTF - the whole plan is tanked if I can't get a handle on this nitrous - especially at such a small shot. With a fairly rich tune (12.5:1 at WOT) and even with no timing pulled you should be able to hit 25 HP worth of nitrous on an engine of this size - even without adding fuel - and not hurt the engine. So something is definately up - but what?
I spent some time going over all the ignition settings in the EFI software and then double checked the recommended settings for dwell and spark duration for the coils I'm using. Turns out, in the period of time I began using these coils (Chevrolet LS1 coils) and now it has been discovered that these coils are also subject to the infamous "early spark" issue the LS2 coils are known for. These coils are "smart" coils in that they each contain a little electronic ignition module inside them and only require a 5 volt signal from the ECU to fire them. Well, it appears as a self-protection "feature" these coils will fire uncommanded if they are over-dwelled in order to keep from burning up the coils. Only problem with that is when your previously recommended dwell settings get you into this auto-fire behaviour while running WOT (with or without N2O)... Early spark = detonation. So I've rolled back the dwell time a bit under the recommended settings for now -- hopefully the coils will still put out a hot enough spark to handle the chore with a larger load of nitrous. I also have a selection of spark plugs to try too - especially as the N2O gets stepped up. I have a set of standard plugs in a 9 heat range, a set of non-projected style plugs (also in a 9 heat range), and a set of surface gap plugs in a 10 heat range.
Head to the track directly from work and get there reasonably early. Weather looks a little iffy - but worth giving it a go for the night. Get thru tech fairly quickly then get ready for the first run.
First run is NA (normally aspirated) - just an easy takeoff and run it throught the gears and check the logs when done. For all my street tuning I've used either a laptop (in a tank bag) directly wired to the microsquirt ECU, or a cell phone in a tankbag with a bluetooth transmitter wired to the micrsquirt. The laptop/tankbag combo isn't going to cut it on the track, and the bluetooth can be fairly flakey sometimes - especially when cranking and shutting down and cranking agian. So I try something new tonight using the data cable from the microsquirt going to an OTG cable into the micro USB on the phone. IT works - so I set it to log automatically on connecting and set it all under the seat and go run.
While waiting "on deck" I realize I forgot to turn on the CO2 bottle on the swingarm (now self-filled with N2O). Since I'm in the burn-out box waiting for the car in front to launch, I decide not to try to turn it on and instead focus on the upcoming run and just foot shift for the run. My turn now, skip the burnout (no need and I won't be allowed to do one at the Colorado Mile) and line up, leave early, bog on the launch, and just ride out the run foot shifing at the shift light. Biggest disapointment of the run is the fact I don't have a datalog. Crap! Try to figure out something. The wideband O2 sensor I'm using WEGO 3) datalogs continuously up to three channels - AFR, RPM, and something else. I don't have anything hooked up to the thrid channel now, but do get the AFRs off the run and see it is just a little leaner than where I want to be (12.8 - 13.0 -- although stell in the safe range). Bump up the fuel in the top two rows of the fuel VE table 5% (13.0 AFR actual divided by 12.5 desired = 1.04, round up to 1.05). Check the plugs - they look good - just have to get used to the fact that E85 doesn't color the plugs much. Also add a little fuel in the table at the low-load area around 3,000 to 4,000 RPM since it is a bit lean there while bringing the RPMs up for staging. Now I'm starting to understand some of the differences between a "street" tune and a "track" tune since that area is usually seen on the street in a coast down mode vice a ready to launch mode.
Plan for the second run is to leave the nitrous bottle turned off, but arm the nitrous system and have it set to activate in fourth gear, and ensure the extra fuel and timing retard occur as expected. Line up, launch, bog again, have shifter issues into 2nd gear with auto shift, hit the shift button and get it into 2nd (thankfully didn't hit the rev limiter), and ride out the rest of the run. Did get a good datalog this time, but forgot to arm the nitrous system before launching - crap! Decide to run the 25 HP jets knowing the ECU has always added fuel and pulled timing when it should AND the nitrous signal is an output from the ECU that is tied to the same trigger as the fuel enrichment and timing retard. Although I got a good log, I don't like where I put the phone - between the fron of the seat and the tank - seems like it is likely to break the phone, so try it under the seat again. No other adjustments to make other than turn on the nitrous bottle, check the shifter bottle pressure, and remember to arm the nitrous system this time!
Run three goes a little better - I don't bog the launch this time! It's still a SLOW 60' time, but I'm not drag racing now - I'm testing - or so I keep telling myself. Don't really feel the nitrous when I shift to fourth and wonder if it even fired. No log on the phone again, but the WEGO does show it going rich. So I know the microsquirt did it's job, but now I'm wondering if there is a nitrous delivery issue. Can't think of a good way to check nitrous delivery without spending a fair amount of time on it...so decide to stay with 25 HP jets and activate in second gear this time since the plugs still look good. Decide to set up the GoPro this time. I have a mount on the clutch master cylinder - gives a good view of the dash and a fair view over, but it also adds one more thing to do during the pre-run routine.
Run four goes well - rmember to get everything cut on and don't bog the launch! But still don't really feel the nitrous coming on. No datalog again. Frustrating - really want to be able to see some of the details of what the ECU is doing during the run. The GoPro (and the WEFO log) shows the biggest thing I need to know - the AFR goes to 10.4 as soon as I hit second gear and stays there for the run. Being that rich on that small of a shot essentially killed the power gain from the nitrous. The run was no faster than previous, but no slower either. Check the plugs again and everything looks good! Decide to step up to the 50 HP nitrous jets and activate in 3rd gear. Review all the new nitrous settings and add a little more fuel to the previous 50 HP numbers and ensure the retard is set (a very conservative 5 degrees retard). Also decide to put the phone in an interior jacket pocket this times in hopes of getting a datalog again, so I run the wire up inside my jacket this time.
Run five goes well, stating to get into a pre-run routine. GoPro dies right after I turn it on, so no video on this run. This time I FEEL the nitrous hit - it's pulling at least as hard in 3rd as it did in 1st! Trap speed is up 12 mph from the last pass! After the run I tear the cable out of the phone and fubar the new cable when I forget about the phone in the pocket still attached to the bike - oops. Look at the plugs and things still look good! Nothing melting - no signs of detonation -- finally. AFRs look good too. Hurry to prep for another run, but the staging lanes close before I can get ready. Probably a good thing since rushing and hurrying are the last things I need to do at this point in the program! All in all a good evening and a fairly clear path to move forward on.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: Firehawk068 on June 15, 2016, 03:12:52 PM
Good stuff Chris! :good2:
Shoot me a message next time you are planning to head over to Bandimere on a Wednesday, and I'll pop over there after work.
Would like to see the bike run.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on June 15, 2016, 04:55:15 PM
Will do. Loosely planning on the 29th of this month or the 13th of July - depending on weather and work of course. Gates open at 4:00 -- I like to leave work about 3:00 and beat the worst of the 470 traffic
Working now on a stand alone data logging setup. Using a DL-32 logger and LC-1 wideband O2 previously used on the street bike and previously on the drag setup. The DL-32 will log AFR, RPM, injector duty cycle, fuel pressure, and nitrous pressure.
Also waiting on the delivery of a phone case to hard mount to the bike. I think that will work with another OTG cable to reliably data log the microsquirt data too.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on June 27, 2016, 02:02:22 PM
Registered for the Colorado Mile yesterday! Feels good to have a running bike already!
Finished wiring up the new datalogging system and sensors last night. Hoping to find some time to setup each data channel today and make a short log or two to verify everything is working as it should. I'll feel a lot better being able to get good datalogs from the entire run - especially when using the nitrous system. I'll still be checking plugs, but it's nice to be able to keep an eye on everything else as it goes too!
The datalogger system is an Innovate Motorsports DL-32 5 channel logger and recorder coupled with their LC-1 wideband O2 sensor. The system is setup to "daisy chain" several devices together and the DL-32 at the end of the "chain" to capture all the data on an internal SD card. This basic setup has the ability to log 6 channels of data - the AFR from the LC-1, plus 5 inputs connected directly to and processed by the DL-32. Each data channel in the DL-32 is set to a default function, and has selectable alternate functions that vary by channel. The plan is to use the DL-32 as the "nitrous" logger - capturing all the info needed to ensure the nitrous system is working as it should in an effort keep the "sacrifices to the gods of speed" to a minimum.
Channel 1 on the DL-32 is the default RPM channel. I'll log RPM based off the #1 injector. Right now it is setup to inject one pulse per "engine cycle" -- i.e. one pulse every 720 degrees of crankshaft revolution. Set number of pulses per engine cycle and the DL-32 determines RPM by the time between events (vice averaging events per a period of time -- quicker response and more accurate).
Channel 2 is the default thermocouple OR lateral acceleration channel (sure hope I DON'T see any of that!). This was going to be blank - possibly setup for something else later. Now that I'm writing this - think I'll move the nitrous bottle pressure originally planned for Channel 5 to Channel 2. It is a 1600 psi sensor - putting out .5 volts for 0 psi and 4.5 volts for 1600 psi.
Channel 3 is the default duty cycle channel. By connecting to the same signal as channel 1, I can keep track of the injector duty cycle. Although duty cycle is something the microsquirt can provide, I want an independent source of this info to ensure the injectors are functioning properly. Two things could cause the injectors to operate at too high of a duty cycle -- demanding more fuel than they can supply, or demanding more fuel than is being supplied to them. I saw this happen last summer while testing with the nitrous - no matter how much additional fuel I added in the nitrous setup, I wasn't seeing a decrease in the AFR. This turned out to be a restriction in the stock 90 degree fitting going into the fuel rail. I replaced the stock fitting with a larger 3/8" brass elbow and gained enough fuel flow to support the fuel needed for that level of nitrous. This will be a critical item to watch while stepping up the nitrous level.
Channel 4 is the default MAP (manifold air pressure) channel. The DL-32 has a MAP sensor built in - handy for determining engine load for tuning usually, but not needed for the nitrous tuning since we know we're only spraying at WOT. This Will get reprogrammed for an external 0-5 volt sensor - the fuel pressure sensor. It is a 100 psi sensor and puts out .5 volts at 0 psi and 4.5 volts at 100 psi. Another critical item to keep track of.
Channel 5 is the default acceleration channel. The DL-32 has a built in accelerometer that is used to measure acceleration as long as it is mounted level. I'm not sure how accurate this will be for a motorcycle, but should be reliable in the higher gears where front suspension lift should be minimal.
Also completed a hard mount for the android phone that's being used as a datalogger for the microsquirt (using an app called shadow dash). The microsquirt provides a ton of info - the issue is capturing it. A laptop, although the "best" answer and not an issue for tuning a car, it is a pain on a bike. On the street I use a tank bag - but that won't work on the track! Likewise for the backpack Marc Rittner used for tuning his Aprilia. In the past I've used a bluetooth adaptor to connect with an android table or phone. It works well, but tends to have difficulties synching up at times and requires multiples starts, stops, restarts, etc to re-connect sometimes. Again, an OK solution for the street, but not the level of reliability you want for the track! Last time out at the dragstrip, I tried using an OTG (on the go) cable from the phone to the data cable from the microsquirt. This seemed to work well, BUT the main difficulty was lack of a mounting location for the phone. This caused issues with the data connection at the phone. Looks like having a hard mount combined with taping the data cable in place will take car eof the logging issues for the microsquirt.
The end result will be one datalogger recording what the ECU is doing and another dedicated to the nitrous system operations. This things got enough wiring now to look like an old Mercury space capsule!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: jscgdunn on June 27, 2016, 02:45:14 PM
Good luck! Very interesting research I think!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on July 11, 2016, 03:23:04 PM
Taking it back out to Bandimere on Wednesday afternoon to continue the testing and tuning from last time out.
Both datalogging solutions appear to be working as intended - the fuel pressure sensor seems to have a different curve than advertised....but I think we are close enough now by tweaking the settings in the datalogging software while comparing it to a manual pressure gauge. Not so worried about exact numbers, but need to be able to see if there is a dip or drop off in pressure when the nitrous is activated or as we up the horsepower levels.
The plan is to check/tweak the 50 HP nitrous settings, then set up the progressive controller and adjust the ECU to match. After getting those settings synched up and dialed in, we'll be ready to step up to the 75 HP nitrous jets. If we get thru that point tomorrow I'll call it a complete success. If things are going better than planned for, we'll try stepping up one more time to the 100 HP jets.
I'm using a "dry" nitrous setup – depending on the ECU to add the additional fuel required vice using a separate fuel solenoid and nozzles (a "wet" nitrous setup).
The microsuirt ECU works pretty well for a fixed hit of nitrous. There are settings for min and max RPM for nitrous activation, as well as how much injector pulse width (PW) to add at each of those points. Getting to a good (SAFE!) starting point takes a little work to begin with. To make the math easy -- assume we have an engine that makes 100 HP at 10,000 RPM. You can then look at the datalogs and see what PW at 10,000 RPM makes 100HP. Lets say that number is 10 ms (miliseconds - again, not too reasonable, but easy maths!) If we want to add a 20 HP shot of nitrous, we'll want to add 20 HP worth of more fuel. If it takes a 10ms PW to give 100 HP at 10,000 RPM, then we'll need 12ms PW for 120 HP. In reality, we'll go a bit larger than this for two reasons -- to start on the rich side in case our math isn't perfect (or reality doesn't exactly match the math!), and we'll want a richer AFR when on nitrous than we can run without. Now, if we set the min RPM for 5,000 RPM (half the max rpm) then the same amount of nitrous - 20 HP - requires DOUBLE the added PW (4ms) since the RPM is halved. That's one of the odd things about nitrous - the horsepower level of a "fixed" shot may be constant, but the added torque is not! 20 HP of nitrous at 10,000 RPM adds 10.5 Ft Lbs torque, but that same shot at 5,000 RPM adds 21 Ft Lbs torque! That makes sense why we have to increase the add PW by a greater amount at lower RPMs.
Now, when we want to go much over a 50 HP shot, we either have to wait for a later gear (like 3rd) to keep from upsetting the chassis - either wheelie or wheel spin. But we have the potential to gain more speed the sooner we can start on the nitrous and the more of it we can use! The answer? Progressive nitrous controllers. These use pulse width modulation (PWM) to reduce the amount of nitrous going into the engine for the same size nitrous jet. There are limits to what this can achieve (solenoids won't actually "pulse" much below 40-20% depending on the brand and size) but it is still an effective way to combine both a larger shot and an early activation, as well as be kinder to the engine. The microsquirt doesn't really "do" progressive fuel enrichment. Although nitrous will "pull through" a richer AFR than a normally aspirated engine will, but there are limits and draw backs to using a "fixed hit" of fuel with progressive nitrous. The microsquirt will do 2 stages of fuel enrichment – and can be set for a time delay for the second stage. The trick to get progressive-like fuel from the microsquirt is the set the progressive nitrous controller to progress the nitrous for a slightly longer time than it takes to accelerate through the gear you are activating it in. Then, set the first "stage" of fuel enrichment to start with a portion of the total fuel needed for the nitrous shot at the min RPM, then set the max RPM fuel enrichment to the full amount of fuel needed. That gets us safely through the gear (2nd gear in this case) while the nitrous is progressing. The problem now occurs when you shift to the next gear – and the RPMs drop and you are now lower on the fuel curve than the nitrous curve … equals OOPS and a potentially large offering to the gods of speed. So, set the time delay on the second "stage" of fuel enrichment to come in before the shift point and "fill the square" with the second stage – add the fuel that was "left out" of the first stage at min RPM and taper to no (or very little) added fuel for the max RPM. I hope that makes sense – it has taken me a while to get my head around it well enough to be able to try it in the real world. So, in our case above, if we were to progress the 20 HP shot from 40% to 100% over 2 seconds, the settings would look something like this: 1st stage min RPM PW added = 1.6ms (40% of our 4ms) and max RPM PW added = 2ms (full amount from above). Second stage would activate at 1.9 seconds and at min RPM the added PW would be 2.4ms (the original 4ms we needed minus the 1.4 the first stage is providing) and max RPM added PW would be 0ms since we already added all we needed in the first stage (in reality I'd increase both second stage numbers by .1 or .2 just to be a bit cautious).
Although this is a bit of a "brute force" method to get the fuel we want out of the ECU, it is actually a bit more elegant than the method being used by the gentleman (Ransom Holbrook) that has the fastest nitrous only 1 mile speed – 244 and change on a 1st gen Busa. Real budget effort using a hacked Suzuki ECU and 2 stages of progressive dry nitrous starting in 1st gear. He has been very good about answering my questions about his setup and how he works with the ECU to force it to work with a progressive controller (actually two of them!)
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: Pat Conlon on July 11, 2016, 04:18:32 PM
Thank you Chris for taking the time to write up a detailed explanation on your tuning endeavors.
I find it fascinating. Your examples make following your logic easier to understand.
A couple of Q's:
You are tuning at Bandimere, how's that elevation compare to Watkins? Race day adjustments needed?
What kind of aero improvements are you planning? The coefficient of drag is king and the FJ is not the slipperiest fish in the pond.(about as slippery as a barn door)
I really enjoy your posts. I think many folks would love to see you reach your 200mph goal. A 30 year old FJ that does the standing mile at 200mph......cool.
Remind us, are you accepting donations towards your goal?
Thanks again. Pat
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: jscgdunn on July 11, 2016, 06:24:38 PM
Plus one on Pat's comments. I had no idea nitrous could do so much. Amazing you can get it at a gas station right next to the Red Bull.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: giantkiller on July 11, 2016, 06:49:48 PM
Plus one on Pat's comments. I had no idea nitrous could do so much. Amazing you can get it at a gas station right next to the Red Bull.Yah just pop the top open and pour it in the gas tank :lol:
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on July 11, 2016, 08:29:45 PM
Plus one on Pat's comments. I had no idea nitrous could do so much. Amazing you can get it at a gas station right next to the Red Bull.
Yah just pop the top open and pour it in the gas tank :lol:
Wish the pop top can would do as much for the rider!
Pat- the altitudes are very similar...and...the ECU should adjust automatically. With a single pressure sensor like is the default, it reads the MAP sensor when you first turn it on and bases the altitude in all the calculations on that. If you ride up an 8,000' elevation change though, it is still using your starting altitude. Two ways to adjust for a large change like that - kill power to the ECU and restart it, or add a dedicated baro sensor and will adjust on the fly. That is the nice thing about the microsquirt ECU (and several other aftermarket ECUs) - the fuel tables are based on VE (volumetric efficiency) values vice pulse width values. If, for instance, you change injectors for larger or smaller, you only have to update the injector info - not the entire fuel table. Change cams or exhaust, then you will have to tweak the VE table - but it will be fine tuning vice wholesale changes.
As for aero - the mods will be fairly limited for this year - part of the goal was to still have it look like an FJ. I've got all the foam removed from the front half of the seat to get me lower, lowered the suspension front and rear to cut down on frontal area, 60 series front tire and lower the front fairing, and cleaned up the undertail. I'd like to get two more things done for this year - a better front fender (stock Busa or a Busa landspeed style fender) and build up a seat cowl for the back half of the seat. For the future I have a fairing lower for an 86 I think that will need quite a bit of fiberglass work to fit properly and do a good job of managing more of the airflow. I'd like to extend that piece underneath all the way to the back tire. I'm also thinking of an extended tail - widend in the front to match my backside and narrowing all the way back - this would also let the seat cowl be taller and still keep a gentle angle toward the back. The FJ "spoiler" back there is all wrong - but is part of the look...not sure if it will stay for next year.
Part of my answer (albeit a poor one!) for the lack of aero is to add more nitrous!
Some of the mods can be seen here:
Note - this is still with the street tires and rims - front fender not lowered in this pic.
I'll try to get a good picture of the flat bottomed tail tomorrow - I think it cleans up the rear quite a bit.
I think this year I am in a better position to be able to accept donations in good conscience as I am confident we will be there and ready to run hard this year! Randy has built a hell of an engine! And Harvy donated a T25 turbo I think will make a formidable addition to the program next year. Anyone that does want to donate we'll add their name to the bike and see if we can get you added to the program - as well as a hearty thank you and a beer (or beverage of your choice) at a future time! My PayPal is [email protected]
Also, anyone is welcome to hang out for the event - plan to have the smoker/grill setup this year!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on July 11, 2016, 08:39:10 PM
I'm stumped now -- what's a good way to post videos? Have the one run I got on video last time at Bandimere to post...
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: Firehawk068 on July 11, 2016, 09:03:19 PM
I'm stumped now -- what's a good way to post videos? Have the one run I got on video last time at Bandimere to post...
What's the link to the video?
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on July 11, 2016, 09:37:47 PM
I'm stumped now -- what's a good way to post videos? Have the one run I got on video last time at Bandimere to post...
What's the link to the video?
Right now it's on my laptop. I can post it to youtube or to photobucket - whichever is a better way to go
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: Firehawk068 on July 11, 2016, 10:21:39 PM
I'm stumped now -- what's a good way to post videos? Have the one run I got on video last time at Bandimere to post...
What's the link to the video?
Right now it's on my laptop. I can post it to youtube or to photobucket - whichever is a better way to go
I like using Youtube better for videos, but either will work I'm sure.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on July 11, 2016, 10:49:44 PM
I'm stumped now -- what's a good way to post videos? Have the one run I got on video last time at Bandimere to post...
What's the link to the video?
Right now it's on my laptop. I can post it to youtube or to photobucket - whichever is a better way to go
I like using Youtube better for videos, but either will work I'm sure.
How do you then embed video?
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: Firehawk068 on July 11, 2016, 11:06:05 PM
How do you then embed video?
I still haven't figured that out?
It used to work fine, but somewhere along the way Youtube changed their embed coding, and now it doesn't.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on July 12, 2016, 07:11:36 AM
How do you then embed video?
I still haven't figured that out?
It used to work fine, but somewhere along the way Youtube changed their embed coding, and now it doesn't.
Thanks - that set me back on the right track. I figured out again how to do it with photobucket - just have to get it loaded now (bandwidth issue?)
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: racerrad8 on July 12, 2016, 08:56:52 AM
Chris, for videos YouTube works the best I have found. When I use PB it only loads the video as a small corner image and it is difficult to watch.
Once it is loaded up to YouTube, you just paste in the share link code listed below the video and it will take everyone to YouTube to watch it.
Randy - RPM
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on July 12, 2016, 11:01:25 AM
Let's try this then: https://youtu.be/RL5bA9x7LP4
This is the only video I got from the last tuning session - 4th run - 25HP nitrous shot from 2nd gear. With all the datalogging issues I was having that day, this was the best tuning info I got all day! After this I added fuel at idle and off idle and decreased the added fuel for the 25HP shot. The camera battery died while lining up for the next run which was a 50HP shot from 3rd gear.
Since this tuning session, I've replaced the WEGO III wideband O2 sensor with an LC-1. I've lost the direct reading gauge on the dash for the AFR - and have replaced it with an AFR "indicator" that will show rough AFR numbers. Reason for the change was to get an additional AFR output (LC-1 has 3 outputs vice the WEGO III has only 1) to send the info to both the ECU and to a separate datalogger as well as a dash mounted indicator.
Plan to film each run for the test sessions tomorrow.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on July 12, 2016, 08:10:47 PM
Here is the main focus for the aero improvements - the undertail and the seat cowl.
Simple "flat bottom" added to the tail section. it fastens to the sub frame and mounts all the accessory electronics.
Started on the seat cowl. started by tracing the back of the seat pan to get the shape. Then traced 5 more moving it up each time. Then position them one at a time, trim to "fit" by eye, then mock it up.
Next task is to cover the mold with packing tape to serve as mold release and then start the fiberglass work.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: FJmonkey on July 12, 2016, 08:56:37 PM
Great approach to finding the shape you want/need. Keep the solutions coming.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: Firehawk068 on July 13, 2016, 01:25:42 PM
You've got some great weather today for testing.
One thing I would probably change, is make the front edge of your "Bubble-Tail" taller.
It looks pretty close though.
It needs to follow the contour line coming down your back, while you are tucked in sitting on the bike.
Sit on your bike in a tuck, and have your wife take a side picture of you and the bike, at the height you'll be while making your speed runs.
Cover the buck that you've made in some expanding foam to build it up more, then you can shave it down to the shape you want. Then make your fiberglass mold.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on July 13, 2016, 02:41:28 PM
You've got some great weather today for testing.
One thing I would probably change, is make the front edge of your "Bubble-Tail" taller.
It looks pretty close though.
It needs to follow the contour line coming down your back, while you are tucked in sitting on the bike.
Sit on your bike in a tuck, and have your wife take a side picture of you and the bike, at the height you'll be while making your speed runs.
Cover the buck that you've made in some expanding foam to build it up more, then you can shave it down to the shape you want. Then make your fiberglass mold.
I thought about the spray foam ... can you just "shoot" it on? Or do you need a way to force it into place? I've only ever used it to seal up holes around conduit or fill in seams before.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: Firehawk068 on July 13, 2016, 04:21:47 PM
I thought about the spray foam ... can you just "shoot" it on? Or do you need a way to force it into place? I've only ever used it to seal up holes around conduit or fill in seams before.
It will stick.
Don't do it on the bike though.
Remove your buck, and place it on a board that you don't care much about.
Start at the bottom and work your way up. It sticks to itself really well.
There are some tutorials on youtube. Just search for spray expanding foam. People use it for all sorts of projects.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on July 14, 2016, 08:48:47 PM
I'll pick some up tomorrow. Think I'll do a couple layers of fiberglass, then foam, then fiberglass.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: giantkiller on July 15, 2016, 07:50:37 AM
I've been using the foam insulation sheet. The kind with the foil backing. (Yellow/tan color not the pink)I bought a 4x8 sheet and have made many projects, still have 3/4 left. Just peel the foil off. And you have the same foam the the fiberglass companies sell for an arm and a leg. For mold making. It comes in many thicknesses. I have 2". That is what the building supply company has in stock. If you need thicker you can special order it. But I just glue as many together as I need. Get the glue from a hobby shop. They sell glue that is made for this And is sand able. And they have sand able foam filler, for inperfections, or any mistakes.
This is an intake I'm working on for the turbo. It will go in the front of the side panel. Where the point is . It will have the screen painted black to blend in with the black bike. The turbo kit had a big round chrome Harley filter sticking out right there.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: giantkiller on July 15, 2016, 08:02:23 AM
Sorry about the pictures being blurry. I m a little shaky before I eat in the morning. Going to fiberglass over the outside. And cut out the foam in the middle shape it nice and smooth into the. Carb and lay a super thin layer of fiberglass cloth over the inside. For flow and it will make it a little stronger with the foam sandwiched In between.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: Firehawk068 on July 15, 2016, 09:19:10 AM
Chris, How did your testing go Wednesday?
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on July 15, 2016, 10:26:14 AM
Overall, good night at the track Wednesday. A bit frustrating at times, but overall a good result. Definitely want another test session before the Colorado Mile though.
Last pass of the night – 75 HP nitrous shot in second gear, progressed from 40% to 100% over 1.5 seconds. Terminal speed 136 mph. The tune was still well rich so there's more speed to be had on that tune while still keeping it safe.
First run went fairly well, no nitrous, good shakedown run, forgot to turn on the GoPro and a little sloppy on the shift points. I stop at the scales after getting my time slip. Bike weighs in at 530 pounds – holy cow she's heavy! 755 pounds with me in all my gear on it – holy cow I'm heavy too! Working on the last one – trying to be down 10 – 20 pounds for the CO Mile.
Second run – 50 HP shot all in on the shift to 2nd gear – forgot to arm the nitrous system. UGH. Knew it wasn't right as soon as I shifted to second – got it armed at the top of second. And then the bike just dies just past the 1000' point (at which time a wicked fast turbo Monte Carlo blows by in the other lane with 20+ mph in hand – startled the hell out of me!). Bike won't restart and once I get stopped I notice the fuel pump isn't running. CRAP! First thought in my mind is I've burned up another fuel pump or some wiring (thought I smelled that nasty sweet odor of electrical parts or wiring melting/buning. Nothing obvious at this point – can't pull the seat or side panels until I get back to the pits. It's a pretty long way to push the 530 pound beast while wearing the cow suit back to the pits. Finally make it and change out of the leathers – hoping I only have to do a rewire of the pump at this point – I can hear the fuel pump relay clicking so things don't seem as bad as it could be… Get the seat and side panels off (seat and sidepanels have a small button head allen bolt holding them in place) and don't see any signs of disaster. Relived and confused. Look around a bit more and notice the fuse for the fuel pump has come out of the fuse block and is setting next to the nitrous controller! Put it back in and the bike cranks right back up! Best trackside fix ever! Out comes the gaffers tape to make sure NONE of the fuses come out like that again.
Third run was the smoothest of the night – all the datalogging worked, GoPro worked, nitrous system armed, and hit the shift points well. Picked up 5 mph on the 50 HP tune with a 129 mph trap speed. Still too rich – 10.3 AFR – lean it out another 10%. There's probably another 5 mph or so trap speed to be had on this tune while keeping it safe. Launches are still fairly rough – clutch/throttle coordination not as smooth as last time out.
Talked a bit with some guys that were sorting out an old-school Kawasaki – a KZ900 backhalfed chassis with a 300 rear tire instead of a car-tire slick. Shortened USD forks, rigid rear, LOW, stout engine, nice paint, full lights – nice build. Turns out the nephew helping out has tuned ProStock and ProStreet and has ridden ProStreet. I take his name and number down for when we put this bike back into dragstrip mode. He's got another old-school Kawi with a Busa back-half and is interested in the EFI conversion. I take his advice on the launches and they are quicker and smoother for the rest of the night.
Fourth run was a mess – forgot to turn on the nitrous bottle, but did arm the system. There was a clean up in one lane so I had to kill the engine and wait (I was "on deck" at the time). Got it cleaned up very quickly and the bike wouldn't restart. Crack the throttle – no good. Opened the fast idle – it starts. Good launch, but as soon as I shift to second, it breaks up and bogs down due to the extra fuel added but no nitrous to go with it. Roll out a bit (TPS has to be over 90% for the nitrous to be activated) and it runs well, go to WOT and it bogs again.
Fifth run, forgot to arm the nitrous system again. Good launch, but no nitrous until I arm it at top of second and then blow the shift to third. Frustrated by all the rider errors tonight – just not on top of my game it seems.
I keep trying to get a good clean run to check both the AFR as well as the amount of time it takes to accelerate through 2nd on the nitrous. The plan is to base the nitrous progression on that time. Despite getting the data I wanted, I decide to setup for a 75 HP shot and set the nitrous controller to start at 40% in 2nd gear and progress to 100% in 1.5 seconds. I set the ECU to start at and estimated 60% of the added fuel needed (more than the nitrous starting percentage to be safe) and then be "full in" in 1.4 seconds (again, keeping the fuel delivery a little ahead of the nitrous progression). I'm one of the last vehicles in line to run at the end of the night and the engine won't start! I think the battery is tired of playing for the night! We try the jump box but it doesn't help. Last car has gone down the strip – last ditch effort we touch the positive cable on the jump box to the starter cable coming out of the starter relay. It starts! Hurry up, line up and go. Good launch and the run feels good. So, we took a little gamble – but kept everything to the conservative side on the tune. We're rewarded with a nice pass and 136 mph trap speed on a very rich tune. So, not a smooth night, but good in the end.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: Pat Conlon on July 15, 2016, 11:31:36 AM
Chris, are you solo or do you have help in the pits? An assistant with a preflight check list?
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: FJmonkey on July 15, 2016, 11:38:23 AM
Chris, are you solo or do you have help in the pits? An assistant with a preflight check list?If he has an assistant then they need a good firing. :ireful:
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on July 15, 2016, 12:07:32 PM
For the dragstrip testing I'm basically solo. I can't always get my son out there to help (it's good when a teenager has a job!) We did talk about setting up a checklist and assigning duties that night - and I enlisted him and a friend of his to help for the last couple runs. We'll be putting the checklist down on paper and "test fly" it next time out. I'll make sure I've got someone there next go to make it somewhat of a dress rehearsal for the CO Mile. I've never had a crew with me at the dragstrip - that would have probably helped a lot over the years too!
There will also be a "between rounds" checklist to make sure everything that gets messed with gets back in place! The new datalogger worked well - but I lost data on the last three runs because a didn't put the SD card back in it after the third run. :dash2: Last night was definitely frustrating with the all the small errors -- just we were lucky enough to catch things before anything bad happened! I really need to make sure the datalogging is reliable so we can make changes before hurting parts. I also noticed last night that we may need to up the injector size again. Right now I'm running "pink" injectors from a WRX STi - and we were approaching 80% duty cycle already. Granted the nitrous tunes are still a bit rich, but I think we will be exceeding 80% once we get up to 100 HP on the nitrous. There's a set of "decapped" blue injectors from a WRX setting on the bench now -- hopefully they don't flow so much that getting the engine to idle will be a factor. Pretty sure I'll be installing those and retuning as required over the next couple weeks. I'm planning to head back out to Bandimere July 27th for a final test session weather permitting. If not, maybe a backup on August 3rd.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: Firehawk068 on July 15, 2016, 01:24:42 PM
Give me a good amount of "Heads-up" and I'll be your assistant in the pits.
If I know enough ahead of time, I can make sure to be able to go.
It was too short notice this week.
Also, I can come meet you at your place a few days ahead of time, and we can go over a checklist, and what you would want my duties to be in the pits.
Going solo is tough. There are too many things you need to be reminded of, especially with the project you are trying to put together.
I'll give you a hand.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on July 15, 2016, 07:57:36 PM
Thanks Alan - was going to send you a PM.
Plan is for Wed, July 27th, with Aug 3rd as a backup. Really prefer the 27th since I'm supposed to leave for Jordan on Aug 4th to pick up a plane (scheduled to get back on the Aug 17th - starting to get uncomfortable again! At least we've got a running bike this year!)
Are you interested in crewing for the CO Mile too? Would be good to have the help - even of for just part of the time.
Anyone that would be interested in crewing would be welcome.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on July 16, 2016, 06:30:43 PM
Did some more on the tail section today. Started this morning with two layers of fiberglass - one layer of fiberglass mat and one layer of fiberglass cloth.
This afternoon I followed up with a can of spray foam. It definitely requires some technique. Half way through I'm thinking I'm so screwed! It's drying now and looking a bit better. I'll try shaping it some in the morning - looks like it will be too gummy tonight to be able to work with it tonight.
Most of it will get sanded off, especially the sides.
Also found a Baxley wheel chock on Craigslist! (He had three listed - I got the first one) I lost two of these when my trailer was stolen several years ago. These are hands down the best wheel chocks I've ever used or seen. I had the sport bike wheel chock last time -- this one appears to be their original one and is adaptable to a variety of wheel sizes.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on July 17, 2016, 11:53:28 AM
Worked on the tail some more this morning and realized the mistake I made. I needed to make the buck smaller to allow room for the spray foam. I also realized the current buck and foam would be a good start for a larger, more aero tail.
The idea for the larger tail is to extend it about 4-6 inches to the rear (no farther back than a vertical line from the back edge of the rear tire) and "fill in" the spoiler to create a single smooth line all the way back. I'll also raise the front of the tail section as high as the rules for MPS (modified partial streamlining) allows - 36" above the ground with the rider seated. It'll be interesting to compare that to the "seat cowl" mod and compare to the stock style seat.
I removed the original buck and foam and set them aside for the large aero tail later, and restarted the seat cowl project. This buck is about an inch smaller all around to allow room for the foam. The first two layers of fiberglass are curing now. After shaping the foam it will be covered with another couple layers of fiberglass to create a "sandwich" and should be a light weight but strong structure.
For the large aero tail project - does anyone have a seat base (any year) or an 84/85 tail section they'd be willing to donate?
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj johnnie on July 17, 2016, 07:17:53 PM
I have plenty of seat pans. Pm me your address and I will send you one.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on July 17, 2016, 11:48:56 PM
I have plenty of seat pans. Pm me your address and I will send you one.
Thanks fj johnnie! :hi:. PM sent. It will get put to good use! I had originally planned to wait until next year to try a more aero tail - but I'd like to push that up for this year!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: Firehawk068 on July 19, 2016, 07:44:26 AM
Are you interested in crewing for the CO Mile too? Would be good to have the help - even of for just part of the time.
Anyone that would be interested in crewing would be welcome.
I just checked the dates on this...............................If it wasn't being held on Labor Day weekend, I would love to help you for this event also................But, I already have a camping trip planned for that weekend.............. :sorry:
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on July 19, 2016, 10:40:49 AM
Are you interested in crewing for the CO Mile too? Would be good to have the help - even of for just part of the time.
Anyone that would be interested in crewing would be welcome.
I just checked the dates on this...............................If it wasn't being held on Labor Day weekend, I would love to help you for this event also................But, I already have a camping trip planned for that weekend.............. :sorry:
No worries - it's a tough date as the final "end of summer" family time for most people. We'll have family coming into town for it - again. Be nice to actually have some visiting time instead of just thrashing all hours to get ready.
Still interested in the 27th of this month?
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: Firehawk068 on July 19, 2016, 01:28:13 PM
Still interested in the 27th of this month?
I will plan on meeting you there. I'll have to work that Wednesday, but I'll come over right from work.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on July 19, 2016, 03:04:18 PM
I will plan on meeting you there. I'll have to work that Wednesday, but I'll come over right from work.
No worries - put together a strawman checklist today -- I'll go over it tonight and tomorrow. I'll use a couple tuning runs with the larger injectors to "test fly" the checklists.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: Tekime on July 21, 2016, 09:08:24 AM
This has been a fascinating thread to read. I stayed up far too late last night following your journey thus far.. and I'm hooked! I can't wait to see how things come together for the Mile this year. Even it she isn't a 200MPH bike yet, I have every confidence she will be!
Chris, your dedication to this effort is astounding. Randy, your engine work is beautiful and a thrill just to read about. Thank you both for taking the time to share all the details, the great photos, and to everyone else contributing their knowledge/support to this effort. Just reading this thread has been very educational for me.
Looking forward to future updates and checking out those runs on YouTube. Chris.. it must have felt great when you got a clean run in and finally felt that NOS work it's magic!!
Cool stuff. If it weren't for geography I'd offer to help out at the track in a heartbeat. I'll certainly be following along on this journey from a distance though!
Best of luck my friends! (popcorn)
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on July 21, 2016, 12:28:25 PM
Thanks Tekime! I agree whole heartedly about Randy's engine work! I have fired myself as an engine builder :pardon:
There have definitely been some frustrations along the way – but it's all excitement now! It feels so much better to have a good running bike and be able to test well BEFORE the event this year! Of course, as always, I have another overseas trip for work before the Colorado Mile – but we are scheduled to return on August 17th. That at least gives a two week buffer this year with an already running bike.
I'm sure we'll keep working on details all the way to the event. Things on the task list now include installing the larger injectors and making any tuning changes necessary – idle and off-idle will probably need the most work since we may be getting close to the injector dead time. That makes tuning at the low demand areas harder – but not as critical on a race bike vice a true street bike. And some basic aero improvements – focused now on a seat cowl.
The seat cowl is going to take a bit longer than I first expected. Learning to work with the spray foam has been interesting. Learned to mist the buck with water BEFORE spraying with foam as well as misting the foam with water after spraying it. The foam "cures" much quicker and more completely that way. The foam cures by reacting with moisture in the air – not a lot of that in Colorado sometimes! First attempt had pockets of gooey foam still uncured after 2 days. Carve a little off with a knife and the uncured foam starts oozing out and expanding again!
Second mold started out better. Got the foam carved and sanded to shape fairly well, or so I thought, and then covered it with a single layer of fiberglass. The plan was to fill the low spots with some bondo, sand it smooth and be ready for paint. The shape wasn't nearly as close as I thought…on the third coat of bondo…and more work to go…
While the bondo has been drying, I've been on eBay. Now there's a hayabusa front fender and an 84 tail fairing on the way. When those, and the seatbase from fj johhie show up, we'll get started on the next step of aero mods.
43 days until we get to turn a wheel in competition – after two and half years of work! :yahoo:
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on July 22, 2016, 09:39:38 AM
A couple quick shots of the seat cowl in work. It probably has 2 thin coats of bondo and 2 coats (at this point) of bondo-glass (has short strands of fiberglass embedded in it to hold better for thicker coats).
It's getting closer but still needs quite a bit of work...
This side is still a bit farther out - block sanded it this morning and added another coat of bondo-glass
This side is looking better - also block sanded it and added another thin coat of bondo-glass
I'm debating at this point whether to finish out the bondo work and paint it, or to add a layer of fiberglass over the bondo work and then do the final finish work and paint. I'll probably go with a layer of fiberglass to add support and strength to the final piece.
Also - a big thanks to Robert at RPM for his call this morning. I had sent an email a week or so ago asking about custom length brake lines from spiegler. Robert is placing an order with spiegler today and asked if I had the measurements needed so he could add them to the order. Amazing customer service - thanks!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on July 25, 2016, 02:44:40 PM
Made a fairly big change to the program on Friday - decided to change fuels.
I "thought" I had been running Sunoco E85R - a spec racing fuel (85% ethanol and 15% Sunoco racing fuel base). Turned out I had been using Sunoco E85 -- biggest difference is the ethanol is "cut" with 88 octane pump gas to an actual blend of 84% ethanol/16% gas - the advantage is a consistent blend compared to pump E85 - but still falls short of the race version. This all came to light on Friday when I drove across town in lunch hour traffic to buy two pails (5 gal cans) of E85R. The gentleman asked for 180 plus dollars vice the 45 or so I had been quoted (mistakenly) the day prior. A rather long discussion ensued... In the end I left with one pail of Sunoco 260 GT Plus - a "gas" based fuel vice an ethanol based fuel.
I was on the fence previously about switching to a race "gas" from ethanol due to concerns over the ability of the fuel system to flow enough fuel to support the amount of power that's going to be needed. So I took this "opportunity" to learn what was available and what were good options -- especially with the restrictions on fuel additives in Colorado (even for off-road use!).
According to my calculations based on using E85 with the 75 HP shot of nitrous - the existing fuel system (with the new fuel) should support the full capacity of the nitrous system (150 HP shot). The reason comes from the stoichiometric ratio of each of the fuels. E85 stoichiometric is about 9.8:1 vice 13.7:1 for the 260 GT+. E85 requires 140% (13.7/9.8 ) as much fuel to achieve the same air-fuel ratio for the race gas. Or said another way, the race gas will support 40% more horsepower for the same volume of fuel. With the Microsoft ECU all I have to do is change a fuel constant - no other tuning required more normal running. The added fuel for the nitrous will have to be adjusted manually since it is specified directly as an injector pulse width vice calculated from the VE table.
My concern is I have no idea how much the fuel rail can flow. I know the fuel pump and injectors are up to the task - but I don't know what the FJR fuel rail can handle. During testing of the nitrous system late last year I discovered the stock inlet fitting was restricting fuel flow. I drilled and tapped the end of the fuel rail for a large radius brass fitting. That solved the flow issue for that level, but i haven't pushed beyond that yet. By switching fuels that removes one potential issue that would be very difficult to solve in a timely manner at the track.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: Firehawk068 on July 25, 2016, 03:53:06 PM
Are you actually changing the "Flow"?
Or keeping the same amount of fuel, just changing to a different type of fuel (with more energy/per unit of fuel)?
I don't know a ton about the fuel that you are using, but I know that you would need more E85 to make the same amount of power as regular fuel. (as it has less energy potential)
Seems to me, if you are switching the other way, and you already know your fuel system is capable of flowing enough E85, then it should be more than capable of flowing enough race-gas? :scratch_one-s_head:
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: Firehawk068 on July 25, 2016, 04:32:11 PM
Nevermind Chris..................
I read the above post as a concern.
After I re-read it, I figured out that it was a concern that you fixed by switching fuels.....................As you were. :good2:
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on July 26, 2016, 02:38:58 PM
Nevermind Chris..................
I read the above post as a concern.
After I re-read it, I figured out that it was a concern that you fixed by switching fuels.....................As you were. :good2:
Yes - I worded that poorly - it is confusing - sorry about that.
I think we will be good to go with the new fuel. Definitely want to get out for one more test before the event.
This Wednesday is out since Bandimere is not holding g the usual test and tune this week. I'm going to try for Aug 3rd - but I'm scheduled to go get an airplane Aug 4th - 18th right now, so we'll see if there is time.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: Firehawk068 on July 26, 2016, 03:33:15 PM
I'm ready to meet you at Bandimere on the 3rd.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on July 27, 2016, 08:56:16 AM
Thanks Alan! Fingers crossed now for good weather.
Did a little tuning with the new race fuel last night. Found a few things that needed to be tweaked in the tune - especially the target AFR table for part throttle running. I was getting some lean surging at slow cruising/small throttle openings (like would be used to ride back to the pits after a run) - seems it was bouncing in and out of the bottom row of the target AFR table that I had set very lean to simulate a fuel cut for overrun - good for gas mileage on the street bike -- totally unnecessary for the race bike! I'll still set the lower rows of the table to shoot for 13.2 AFR to help keep plugs from fouling, but still richer than would be used for "gas mileage" concerns.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on July 28, 2016, 07:15:44 PM
I've been doing a bunch of reading on race fuels the last few days (getting stuck in an airport for 5 1/2 hours can be good for that). Think I'm changing fuels again. I'm not convinced the 260 GT Plus is a good fuel for the amount of nitrous we may need to spray. I'm going to go with the safe bet on this one and use VP C16 - it is pretty much the "go to" fuel for heavy nitrous use. I originally wanted to stay away from leaded fuels - but I'm pretty sure the O2 sensor will last for one weekend on the nasty fuel! Besides, buying a spare O2 sensor is a LOT cheaper than repairing another head or buying new pistons! As an added bonus, C16 is available in pails for close to the same price as the 260 GT Plus -- and is about 30 miles closer to me!
The stoichiometric ratio of C16 is even higher than of 260GT Plus (15.0:1 vice 13.7:1) so it will require even less fuel volume (roughly 8-9% less) - even better!
Just 5 more weeks! Hopefully by this time then we'll have our pit area set up and will have gone thru tech and the mandatory drivers meeting and be ready to line up early Friday morning for our first license run...
I'll save the 260 GT Plus for 50 HP of nitrous or less when I go back to the dragstrip after the Colorado Mile and start working toward that 9 second pass again...
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on August 04, 2016, 10:26:16 AM
Last test session before the Colorado Mile was a mixed bag. Only got one good run in -first run without nitrous - good info from the datalog to tweak the base fuel map for the new C16 fuel. Alan came out and was a huge help. Had the weather cooperated better his assistance would have made for a very productive night.
As it was we only got two runs in for the night before the weather set in. The second run - 50 shot of nitrous from 2nd gear up - started well with a good launch despite the 18/38 gearing on it now, but went south quickly after that. Shift early to second and the bike falls on its face. WTF!? Try to keep it running so I can clear the track. Seems to recover if I close the throttle - but dies if I gas it. I switch off the nitrous system and it seems to recover and rides normally at this point.
I try a couple "test hits" on the return road and figure out as soon as the nitrous system is activated the bike seems to cut out and the AFR gauge shows dead lean. Can't figure out what would cause the fuel to totally cut off when the nitrous activates? Get back to the pits and we download the datalog. As I start to explain to Alan what I'm looking for on the datalog the "dumbass" light goes off in my head! The night before I was attempting to troubleshoot an old input problem on the microsquirt. In the middle of this the "hot start" issue from the last test session returned -- but the engine wasn't hot. Battery is good and starter is good - last time we had to hit the starter directly with 12 volts to start it - starter relay going bad! Swapped to the old Ford relay I used on the dragbike before - which required some minor wiring mods. Unfortunately, about the time I finished up it was time to read to my daughter and get her to bed. So no more testing on the dragbike for the night. As I put everything away for the night I forgot to undo the changes I made in the ECU. While troubleshooting with the updated firmware in the ECU I swapped two of the inputs. I had reassigned the input I use for nitrous to the launch control (2 step) function. So, on that run, each time I thought I was activating the nitrous I was cutting out the ignition instead! F()¢K! :mad:
Check the tune file - yep, that was the problem. A couple quick changes, load the new tune, and we're off to try again.
And the lightning show begins followed shortly by rain.
Big thanks again to Alan for his assistance last night! So much better to have the extra brain power, hands and eyes to keep things on track. :hi:
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: Firehawk068 on August 04, 2016, 12:45:42 PM
It would have been great to have better weather, and more runs.
It sucks we were right in the path of that thunderstorm!
It was a pleasure to give you a hand.
I'll try and meet you over there during test-night in the fall if it works out.
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab154/firehawk068/Misc%20Motorcycle%20Stuff/E562FE4D-8165-496D-B251-21BDA0258EBE_zpsdwseustf.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/firehawk068/media/Misc%20Motorcycle%20Stuff/E562FE4D-8165-496D-B251-21BDA0258EBE_zpsdwseustf.jpg.html)
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on August 18, 2016, 01:13:51 PM
Well, in preparation for the 2nd annual Colorado Mile, my company sends me on an international trip to accept and ferry an aircraft. Last years trip should have been pretty easy - a well made German designed and built airplane that has good performance and range and has just been refurbished. The delays on that trip eventually cost us the time we needed to get the bike running for last year.
This year's trip sent us to a location much further away to ferry a used, soviet designed, polish built aircraft meant for operating in and out of rough, short locations, doesn't have good range, and is unpressurized. Not a good plan for keeping to a schedule...luckily this year we made it back as planned with minimal issues! I take that as a good omen for the Mile this year! :drinks:
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: FJmonkey on August 18, 2016, 01:28:25 PM
Sounds like lots of short hops, but all your landings were clearly good enough. Looking forward to seeing more posts of your progress. Time for some low level high speed runs now....
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on August 19, 2016, 02:33:24 PM
Sounds like lots of short hops, but all your landings were clearly good enough. Looking forward to seeing more posts of your progress. Time for some low level high speed runs now....
Well...I did find a good test spot to do a quick test with a 50HP shot on the new fuel. Need to adjust the fueling a bit for that (very rich on the test).
The task list is quite short at this time - trim the Busa front fender a bit where Alan pointed out it was rubbing the fork and finish the race cowl for the seat. Oil change, safety wire, soak the chain, go over everything with a fine toothed comb, etc. A great place to be at this point!
Got most of the tools gathered back up and sorted again. Figuring out how we want to load out the trailer is the biggest task left!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on September 01, 2016, 01:13:31 PM
Trailer is loaded! Headed out to Front Range Airport in a couple hours to get checked in, setup our pit space, attend the drivers meeting, pre-drive the course, and get the bike thru tech.
Plan is then be there when they open the gates on Friday and hopefully get the license runs complete. I'm starting with a class C license - limited to 165 mph. I'll need to satisfactorily complete one run between 140 and 165 mph to license up to class B. Class B lets you run up to 199 mph. To license up you have to satisfactorily complete one run between 180 and 199 mph. The class A license allows you to run up to 220 mph. You need a class AA license to go faster than that - not really a concern!.
Plan for Friday is make two runs on motor only. First one I'll limit to 8500 RPM in 5th with 18/38 gearing. That should put me right in the middle of the speed window to license up. The next pass I plan to see what the top speed I can get on motor only - this will help determine how much power we're making at altitude here and how effective some of the streamlining is. That speed will then give some ideas what we can expect to see on the nitrous runs and be able to tell if we are getting the amount of power we expect from the nitrous. The third run will be a 50 shot of nitrous with 18/35 gearing. Pretty much anything in the 8200-10,000 rpm range at the speed trap should put us in the window to license up for the A license. The fourth run will probably another run with a 50 shot of nitrous with a bit of tuning to the fuel and maybe ignition depending on the data logs and speed attained.
If we get that far it will be a very successful Friday!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: 56 CHEVY on September 01, 2016, 02:25:01 PM
Good luck Chris. Looking forward to hearing how you do this year.
I am confident all your hard work will pay off.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: aviationfred on September 01, 2016, 02:33:10 PM
Good Luck Chris......
I know you have worked extremely hard to get to this point...... A 200MPH run would cap things off wonderfully.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: jscgdunn on September 01, 2016, 03:21:59 PM
Good luck and Godspeed! We await the successful report. (popcorn)
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: Firehawk068 on September 01, 2016, 04:29:53 PM
I'll look forward to hearing how the event went.
Best of luck to you!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on September 01, 2016, 06:11:45 PM
Thanks guys! :drinks:
We got thru tech with no issues, pit area set up, and the drivers meeting is in a few minutes. Feels good to feel ready this time!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: racerrad8 on September 01, 2016, 08:38:39 PM
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/004_zpsvign87ba.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/004_zpsvign87ba.jpg.html)
Randy - RPM
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on September 02, 2016, 10:08:36 AM
([url]http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/004_zpsvign87ba.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/004_zpsvign87ba.jpg.html[/url])
Randy - RPM
Hell yeah!
I figure by the end on Sunday we'll have one of three outcomes:
1. A 200 mph time slip
2. A busted engine - hopefully a head gasket vice a rod or crank!
3. At some point the engine just won't make any more power despite increasing the nitrous load - this "street" head just may not be able to flow enough to be able to use that much nitrous
No matter how it turns out - we'll have a much higher starting point for next year!
Headed out to the airport now - if the rain holds off we may have a fairly cool day!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: rktmanfj on September 02, 2016, 10:31:09 AM
I figure by the end on Sunday we'll have one of three outcomes:
1. A 200 mph time slip
2. A busted engine - hopefully a head gasket vice a rod or crank!
3. At some point the engine just won't make any more power despite increasing the nitrous load - this "street" head just may not be able to flow enough to be able to use that much nitrous
Obviously, I hope it's #1, but either way, it's been fun watching your progress with this.
Good luck! :good2:
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on September 02, 2016, 01:56:08 PM
Well, 2 runs down. First was a bit slow - tune was a bit fat and lazy on the timing (especially for the race fuel) and I was short shifting a little. 135 for the first run.
Took about 4% fuel out at WOT across the board and added 1 degree of timing. Speed now 144. That gets me the B license. Now time to swap the rear sprocket for a 35 and pull the baffle out of the pipe. This will be a 59 shot of nitrous all in on the shift to second.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on September 03, 2016, 02:56:25 PM
Run#6(2ND today)
75shot tuned rich
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on September 03, 2016, 05:16:45 PM
100 HP shot 186 with a kicking quartering headwind
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: PaulG on September 03, 2016, 05:51:42 PM
Run#6(2ND today)
75shot tuned rich
I don't understand 90% of the stuff you talk about on this thread. But THIS one item I do. Very impressive. Good luck on the 200mph goal. :drinks:
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on September 03, 2016, 09:40:47 PM
It's cool having people stop by the pits and talk about their old FJ stories. Steep learning curve but we keep on climbing. Tweaked the tune for the 100 HP nitrous shot for the last run of the day - 187.7 mph!
We are starting with a 125 HP shot tomorrow. Hopefully will be a bit cooler tomorrow and we'll get rid of the darn head winds. Winds were bad enough the really fast bikes (220+ !!) weren't running.
Here's hoping 50 more HP from the nitrous plus a bit of tuning will get us 13 mph or more!!
The big hurdle we had to get across today to get us out of the 150s was to finally figure out the FJ tach was lying to us BADLY at higher RPMs and to simply ignore it and rely totally on the shift light. He'll of a leap of faith to make! We were running 18/35 gears today - put the 19 tooth on the front tonight along with the 125 HP nitrous jet.
Pics and videos to follow - just finished up the tune for tomorrow and time to get to bed - we start early tomorrow!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: racerrad8 on September 03, 2016, 09:49:51 PM
That's bad ass.
Check your email please.
Randy - RPM
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: Bearly Flying on September 03, 2016, 11:31:14 PM
Good Luck on your run tomorrow,
I have been following your thread, very best wishes and luck for you tomorrow.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: Troyskie on September 03, 2016, 11:37:54 PM
let's see 205! Safe flight mate! :good2: (popcorn)
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: FJmonkey on September 04, 2016, 01:01:11 AM
At your speeds you don't need clearance from flight control, you need it from NASA. Great work, thanks for bringing us along for your ride.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: Bones on September 04, 2016, 02:49:20 AM
Good luck mate, show em what the FJ's made of.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: ribbert on September 04, 2016, 05:02:11 AM
187 into the wind and more nitrous to go?.... you'll bolt it in!
I hope the weather Gods smile on you tomorrow and St Columbanus is riding shotgun.
Good luck.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: racerrad8 on September 04, 2016, 07:53:29 PM
Randy - RPM
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on September 04, 2016, 09:09:14 PM
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: FJmonkey on September 04, 2016, 09:48:55 PM
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: aviationfred on September 04, 2016, 11:10:54 PM
Those are numbers to be proud of..... :good2: :drinks: :good:
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: PaulG on September 05, 2016, 06:39:45 AM
If my weight equalled the last run, I'd be extatic! So theoretically if you had a headwind then you probably did break 200mph. If you new your drag co-efficient it could be calculated. Next project - wind tunnel! Great job. :good2:
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fjbiker84 on September 05, 2016, 07:50:32 AM
Outstanding! :good2:
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: ribbert on September 05, 2016, 08:57:41 AM
idth=690 height=920]http://fjowners.com/gallery/10/171_04_09_16_9_07_09.jpeg[/img]
Tantalisingly close.
The engine, the bike and yourself all remain intact and you got near enough to smell it, not an entirely bad outcome for the weekend and you have a whole year to find 1.8 mph.
Well done.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: Bearly Flying on September 05, 2016, 09:26:01 AM
Congrats on some awesome numbers.
Pretty Damned good for an old girl.. :drinks:
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: racerrad8 on September 05, 2016, 12:52:58 PM
The engine, the bike and yourself all remain intact and you got near enough to smell it, not an entirely bad outcome for the weekend and you have a whole year to find 1.8 mph.
Well, almost correct. We hit the bust part...
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/004_zpsvign87ba.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/004_zpsvign87ba.jpg.html)
I will let Chris tell the whole story. I only got the readers digest version yesterday when he got home. There was little hiccup which resulted in some, hopefully minor engine damage/blown head gasket.
Without that hiccup, is sounded like 200+ would have happened pretty easily.
But, I do find it very gratifying we were able to get so close to the target speed on the first attempt. Especially after all of the issues that plagued us last year and no runs were even attempted.
The fact a 30 plus year old base engine & motorcycle, the application of some current technology and we almost made it to 200. Then to top all of that off, it was done at more than a mile above sea level (5525 ft) where there is not much air to work with.
Once the engine gets back to California, we will be able to tear it down and see how we can make more horsepower.
This has been exciting & fun. This is why we race.
Randy - RPM
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: giantkiller on September 05, 2016, 01:56:54 PM
Great job. So much work. For just a few seconds. So close.Means you'll get it next year for sure. Thanks for letting us share in all your work.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on September 05, 2016, 07:13:39 PM
Congrats on some awesome numbers.
Pretty Damned good for an old girl.. :drinks:
It was really cool to see people's opinions change during the meet as we really started to make some progress. The first day the FJ was mostly a curiosity piece, then as we got into the 170's people started telling us good job, then when we put up the 180's we started to get some serious questions, then when we posted the 194 on the first run on Sunday even the well known veterans we chatted with earlier in the weekend came by to pay their respects and wish us well - very cool!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on September 05, 2016, 09:03:56 PM
What do you do after spending the weekend working up to 198 mph?
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on September 05, 2016, 09:30:35 PM
Colorado Mile 2016
We got started Thursday evening - waited in a parking lot while they took in small groups to select their pit area. Met some people while we were waiting our turns to go in the the airfield.
One guy had a really cool "tribute" Honda - a 50cc twin cam single. Our turn to go in - we ended up exactly across from the 1/2 mile speed trap. Our pit neighbors one one side are Road Skullz - a V-twin performance shop out of Denver. They have three bikes - all are in the America's fastest bagger competition. Their "big stick" is a pro-charged 2.1 liter Harley bagger!
Next get checked in at the drivers registration tent and get my blue wrist band (class C license good up to 165 mph). Start unloading the trailer and get the bike over to tech. Meet a couple more bikes - including a very clean oiled cooled GSXR-750 (1100 engine bored 1216cc). Tech goes well - not overly anal - attitude is more "it's your skin". It probably helps I've got more things safety wired than required.
Have some time to do some setup on the pits - which mostly means drilling 4 concrete pilings for anchors to bolt down the 10' x 10' awning. Get done with that and have time to BS with the Road Skullz crew a bit.
Next is the course drive thru - I ride my son's CRF-125 since my tow vehicle is an oil leaker. It actually turns out to be a better choice - I can drag my feet to see how rough the tar snakes are or how rough a section is. I also stop at the end to scout out an"escape route" if I have braking issues later. Much better than trying to come up with that plan BEFORE it hits the fan!
Then the drivers meeting to cover the Do's and Don'ts. They are serious about their licensing program and speed limits until you license up. Also a big focus on stopping distance. The runway is only 8,000 feet long - with the 125' long staging area - the stopping distance is 45' shy of a half mile. This the shortest stop distance of the three venues they run mile races on.
Lock up the trailer and head home. I won't get as early a start Friday as I'd like since I have to take my daughter to school in the morning.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: Troyskie on September 05, 2016, 09:44:17 PM
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: ZOA NOM on September 06, 2016, 01:08:16 AM
Man, I gotta go watch the World's Fastest Indian again... This is just EPIC! Congratulations, man, that is a serious accomplishment, and Randy, kudos on the engine work!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: 56 CHEVY on September 06, 2016, 06:21:43 AM
Congratulations Chris!! That is something to be proud of.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: jscgdunn on September 06, 2016, 07:59:18 AM
Great job guys...must feel some fast!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: racerrad8 on September 06, 2016, 11:03:22 AM
What do you do after spending the weekend working up to 198 mph?
I know how racers think...
Chris is probably confiscating all of the red & white ones for any plastic repairs later... :praising:
Great picture.
Randy - RPM
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on September 06, 2016, 01:39:56 PM
The big picture plan for the Colorado Mile is to spend Friday licensing up and building a good baseline tune to work from. For Saturday the focus is working up through higher levels of nitrous and keep refining the tune as we go – starting very conservative and making sure we don't make a catastrophic error and ending the weekend early. The Sunday will be the day to lean on it as hard as we have to for 200 mph.
Friday starts out with loading up the truck with everything else I can think of that I want at the track but I don't have there yet -- mostly additional coolers and ice. Then it's time to get my daughter ready for school and get her dropped off. Then take some more time to pick up a generator from one of the mechanics at work. Finally get on the road to the track!
Weather looks OK - warmer than I'd like to see and some possible rain in the afternoon. Drive up to the airport and into the pits and see cars and bike running - it's killing me how much time I lost this morning -- but it's part of the balance we all have to keep with family, work, and racing. I'm also solo today – will have help tomorrow and Sunday, but for today it's just me. Today I also have to leave a couple hours early – we are sponsoring four cadets from the Air Force Academy and this is Parents Weekend. We are meeting on of the family of one of our cadets for dinner this evening.
The plan for today is fairly straight forward - I'd like to get four runs in starting out with 18/38 gearing. Run 1 on motor only and keeping the revs below 9500 in 5th. This should put me in the lower half of the 140-165 window to license up to the B license. I'm shooting for the lower half of the window – there's no penalty if you miss the window on the low side, just get out there and try again! If you miss the window and exceed your license speed, you get to wait for the race director and the penalties range from a slap on the wrist to pack up and leave. Run 2 on motor only and let it eat – want to see where we are motor only so I can guesstimate what we may be able to achieve on the nitrous. Run 3 – a 50 shot of nitrous "all in" on the shift into 2nd gear. Run 4 the same 50 shot with adjustments to the tune based on run 3 – and a gearing change if needed. If I can get through all that today, we should have a good base of knowledge to work from for Saturday.
It's nearly 11:00 by the time I get the bike out of the trailer, get the pit area set up, and get ready to start the bike. Hook up a battery to the oil pan heater and check over fasteners, make sure the right tune is in the microsquirt ECU, check tire pressures, etc. Start the engine and let it come up to temp, shift it through the gears on the race stand – everything seems to be in order. Kill the engine and drop it off the rear stand. Go thru the run while I'm getting suited up, then crank, pull it out of the wheel chock and go execute!
I pull up and there is no one in the grid waiting! Crap! Have to stop and get the dataloggers and GoPro turned on, and run through the small check list taped to the top of the tank to make sure everything is ready to go (lessons learned at the dragstrip while prepping for this!). Roll into the staging area – get my wrist band checked so they know what license level I'm at (blue wrist band = class C license) and get my glove secured again. Close the face shield and lock it in place, take a couple deep breaths, and roll up to the line. The starter waves me on to the track – one more deep breath, bring the revs up and try to launch fairly smoothly without slipping the clutch too much and without bogging. Get the feet on the pegs, slide back on the seat while watching the tach and looking for the shift light. See the light, bang the shift button, start getting down into my tuck, shift light, hit the button, think 3rd gear. Tuck some more, shift again, 4th gear. Butt up just a little and see if I can "feel" the wind on my back, one more shift, 5th gear, roll out slightly to keep it around 9,000 RPM, looking for the 1 mile sign. Roll out, transition to brakes fairly quickly, sit up a little too much a little too soon, keep braking, speed is under control, let it roll out a bit, down shift twice, touch the brakes again, turn right at the end. Yes! Three years in the works and we finally got to go down the track! Roll up to the timing trailer. Get my ticket – WTF?! 135.3? I've been faster in the quarter mile! Oh well, first run down, time to get to work and start working up through the speeds. Cruise back to the pits, park the bike in the wheel chock, and take the cow suit off. Start pulling the data from the dataloggers and take a look at the run.
Oops - deleted that link - it was for run number 3 -- no need to get ahead of ourselves!
Datalogger shows I rolled out too much and didn't keep enough RPMs for the run to over 140 mph to get the B license. Logs also show we are on the rich side – AFR around 11.7 at WOT – wanting 12.5 (newer water cooled bikes do better towards 13.2). 11.7 / 12.5 = .936, so I need to reduce the fuel by 6.3%. Instead I reduce the fuel in the top two rows of my Fuel VE Table by 5% (I never take the full "cut" in one go – better to tweak it twice than to make an error and go too lean). I also add 1 degree of ignition advance (after damaging the old racing head I've been VERY conservative with the ignition timing – running stock timing even at higher elevation here). Load the new tune in the microsquirt and get ready to go again.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: racerrad8 on September 06, 2016, 02:02:14 PM
-- no need to get ahead of ourselves!
Sorry Chris, I can't wait...
This gives me goose bumps and the hair is standing up on the back of my neck...
Crank up the volume!!!!
Randy - RPM
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on September 06, 2016, 05:53:01 PM
I still keep catching myself with a huge grin on my face all the time!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on September 06, 2016, 05:55:46 PM
Forgot to post the ticket for the first run – the speeds are for the quarter mile, half mile and mile:
Roll out for the second run. No one in line again! Go thru the checklist again and pull up to pre-stage, then to the starter. Make a pretty good run – experiment a bit more with my tuck in 4th and 5th gear. The braking zone doesn't appear so short now, but still focus on getting into the brakes quickly and smoothly – later it will be much more important! Roll up to the timing trailer and get the timeslip – 144.1 mph. Slower than I had hoped on motor, but good enough for the class B license! They cut the blue wrist band off and give me a purple one – I'm now cleared for 199 mph. To license up to the A license I need to run 180-199 mph.
Looks like I didn't get any GoPro footage for the first two runs – had SD card issues. Time slip for run 2 is better through all the splits:
Hook up a battery to the nitrous bottle warmer while I download the datalog. The datalog looks pretty good – AFRs are 12.3-12.6 through the gears. Double check the nitrous settings in the microsquirt tune – looks good. Really wanted more speed on just engine – may have to adjust the expectations a bit – not sure we're going to have enough horsepower to see 200. We'll see how the next run goes
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on September 06, 2016, 06:04:00 PM
Time for the 50 shot of nitrous. For the 50 shot I have it set to activate on the shift to second gear – and it comes in with the full 50 HP – no progressive build up. This run is intended to get me a good baseline to base the rest of the nitrous numbers on. I have this set up as a very conservative tune – pretty rich on full and pulling more timing than "suggested" or "required". Change the gearing to 18/35 in anticipation of the additional horsepower. Bottle feels fairly warm – get suited up and ready to go again for the third run.
Roll up to the line – a couple cars waiting on the grid this time. Go through the checklist – uh oh – hop off the bike (right glove still tethered to the kill switch) and open the valve on the nitrous bottle. Get back on and arm the nitrous system. Roll up to pre-stage and then the starting line. A little more excited this time – anticipating what it will do spraying nitrous through almost the entire mile. Run feels pretty good – I LOVE the feeling of the nitrous hitting in second gear and then accelerating HARDER than you were doing in 1st! KOOKALOO! The run feels faster – and I roll in and out of the throttle in 5th to make sure I don't run faster than 180 mph. (Yes, if you were paying attention earlier you should be saying "why the hell would you do that when you are cleared up to 199 and you need to go FASTER than 180 to license up?!" And yes, I had a "helmet fire" and screwed that one up!) You really get a sense of the extra speed you are carrying as you enter the braking zone – still getting it slowed in plenty of distance. Roll to the timing trailer – 156.8 mph. Cool! But not as much as I was hoping for.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amyDFhA8-Po (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amyDFhA8-Po)
Get back to the pits, review the datalogs, tweak the nitrous tune, and warm the bottle. I'm seeing 10.7 on the AFR and want to be at 11.7 (a value given to me by the guy that holds the record for the fastest nitrous only motorcycle – a stock bore 2001 Hayabusa using a 2003 ECU – 252 mph! – previously that "record" was in the 220's). 10.7 / 11.7 = .9145 – I take 5% out of the fuel the ECU is adding for the nitrous – again, better to be conservative than greedy and impatient.
It's a little past 3:00 now so I only have time to get in one more run before I have to pack up and head home. Get up to the grid and there are a few more cars than before – but I notice no one is running. I ask around and am told a mustang just went a little over 200 but didn't make the turn off and went in the dirt. So we are stopped until he gets recovered. (Luckily no real damage – and I see him running again later in the meet.) I'm pretty much at the "knock it off" point so I can get home in time when they start running again. Yay! I'm in!
I pay extra attention to the checklist on the tank – disruptions like this race stoppage can really wreck your habit patterns/rhythm/flow/whatever you want to call it, and that's when you make mistakes. The run goes good – and I DON'T back out of the throttle this time! Get to the timing trailer – WTF?! Slowed down from last run:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlyONzSJuc0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlyONzSJuc0)
My mind is racing as I go back to the pits. Did I screw up the tune? Is the motor hurt already? Then it dawns on me – I had decided not the change the nitrous bottle since I had "only" run a 50 HP shot and should easily make 2 passes with that small of a shot and I needed to save some time so I could get the last run in. Then I seem to recall I've made a pass at Bandimere and one other "test hit" on that bottle. Take the bottle to the scale, yep, it only has a pound or so of nitrous left in it. So although there is nitrous in it, if you run it down to a third or quarter "tank" remaining, the pressure starts dropping rapidly and you get less nitrous into the engine. Look at the logs and can see it richer than the previous run although I had taken fuel out already. Time to pack up and hurry home – I'm 20 minutes late already!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on September 06, 2016, 07:44:58 PM
On the way home I'm refining the plan for tomorrow. The list of things to bring tomorrow is growing - box fans to cool the engine between runs, extension cords and three way plugs, crock pot or roaster for warming nitrous bottles before a run, a small cooler for an ice bath to cool nitrous bottles for filling them, ice - lots of ice, chairs...
I have help for Saturday. In the morning we meet a friend (Ryan) who raced motorcycles as a kid, and my son is coming out. We get things loaded up and we get away from the house a few minutes later than desired, but still on good shape. We stop for ice and then head to fans at Home Depot for fans - not the season for fans and the selection is poor, but find a couple fans that should work. Also pick up the three way plugs while we are there. I send Ryan for ice when the first place only has 3 bags. Headed to the track finally!
Plan for today - re-run the last 50 shot run to validate the changes for the nitrous tune. Then step up to the 75 HP shot - basing the tune on 1 1/2 times the fuel for the 50 shot. The 75 HP shot will be a progressive shot. On the shift to second, the nitrous controller will start at 40% (so about 30 HP) and increase to 100% over 2 seconds. The microsquirt will add about 50% fuel at the start and be at 100% in 1.9 seconds -- that way the fuel "stays ahead" of the nitrous so we won't get a lean spike and hurt the engine while progressing in the nitrous. After one run on the 75 HP progressive shot, we'll adjust the tune and run it again. If everything looks right we'll scale up the numbers for a 100 shot progressed over the same 2 seconds.
Seems to be a bit more wind - the weather just seems to be less "settled" today. We get the pits set up and get the bike warmed and ready. There are a lot more cars and bikes on the grid today - they have two lines going, each maybe 10-12 long. Have a little time to look at the other cars and bikes and BS a little. People like the FJ - but seem to act like its cool we are out having fun but not really expecting much from it.
Line up for the third run. A quartering head wind. Run goes well minus some trouble shifting into third - had to hit the shift button a second time. I'm seeing a lot more RPMs in 5th than I expected and roll out a bit to keep it to 10,000 RPM or so. Get the time slip - 154.3. Not the improvement I wanted to see, but pretty good considering the winds. But, all the splits were up considerably! Wait, WTF!? I was 155.2 at the 1/2 mile!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsOa8zknHjg&spfreload=5 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsOa8zknHjg&spfreload=5)
Side note - You'll notice at the beginning of the video I'm messing with the phone I have data logging the microsquirt data. It started getting a bit flaky and wasn't loading the ECU settings properly or not connecting with the ECU. It seemed like each time I would give up on it and head to the start position it would start logging. This is a distraction I don't need and I really want the data I'm getting off of it to refine the tune.
Ugh. Only get one run in before the lunch break. My wife and mother-in-law arrive while we are setting the bike up for the next run. I spent some extra time going over the data log and notice the RPMs recorded are a lot lower than what I saw on the tach. Time to go to the video - yep, for some reason the tach seems to be reasonably accurate in first and second gear, but gets progressively worse in the higher gears. I realize we have something strange going on with the tach, but don't have time to fix it. The answer? Ignore the tach and rely soley on the shift light which is directly triggered off the microsquirt.
Then I spend a lot of time making sure the nitrous tune is correct - it gets a bit more involved "tricking" the microsquirt into progressing the fuel to roughly match the nitrous. Then have to make sure settings in the nitrous controller are set up properly to match what we have in microsquirt. Check and double check all the settings. Then install the larger jet in the nitrous solenoid. Go ahead and refill the shifter bottle to make sure the pressure isn't getting low and causing the shifting issue I had last run. Also increase the shift kill time from .08 sec to .09 sec to help with the shifting too. Oh crap! I haven't checked the fuel! We add about 3 gallons of C16. Put in a refilled and warmed nitrous bottle. I'm showing Ryan and Bailey how to do the bottles (the mount is a pain) so I can leave that to them while I work on the tune. Now, ready for run six.
The run goes well - no shifting issues! It definitely seems faster as I enter the breaking zone. Get to the timing trailer again. Yay! 176.5 mph! I think we have a shot at it again! Figuring out the tach issue was the key!
No video for run 6, but here's a drive-by on the way to the line (not sure which run this really was, but I want to put it somewhere!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gM4dl82NP7k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gM4dl82NP7k)
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on September 06, 2016, 08:09:12 PM
Before that last run one of the veterans asked me what speed we were shooting for. I told him "200 like everybody does, but I'll be really PO'd if we don't make 180". I had some small doubts in the back of my mind that we might not even make that...
This run pumped us all up big time! We NEEDED that run. And the fact we did it in less than ideal conditions made it all that much better. This was definitely the turning point for the weekend -- hell, for this entire endeavor we started nearly three years ago!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on September 06, 2016, 11:05:27 PM
Super pumped after that run - everyone is excited. The Road Skullz guys next door congratulate us. People are starting to take notice of the FJ!
We tweak the tune, fit a new bottle, refill the old one and get ready to go again for run 7. The grid has two lines again so time to look around and BS some more. People are starting to ask more serious questions about the FJ now- engine size, engine builder, nitrous setup, etc. Still mostly a headwind but not too bad. Many of the racers are complaining about the headwind, but I'm not worried about it since we are still stepping up the nitrous level and tuning. This run feels a lot like the last one. Get the time slip - hoping for 180 so I can get my A license. Nope, not this run - but still a good run 177.7 mph. The splits are down a fair amount, but the mile speed was up!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fLmGb10SP0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fLmGb10SP0)
Get back to the pits. Time to step it up to 100 shot progressive! Pits are getting better - great to be able to pass off some of the jobs while I concentrate on the data logs and tuning. Scaleup the nitrous tune for 100 shot. Keeping the 2 second progression - the bike seems setteled and stable at 75HP with this progression so keep pushing it up!
Not sure if we went to 18/35 gearing at this point or if we had already changed the gearing for the 75 HP shots.
Problem is the wind has stepped up quite a bit. Some of the faster turbo bikes get out of line - not worth the risk for them to run in these crosswinds - they are accelerating hard enough during much of the run they don't have much weight on the front tire and can get blown 50 feet or more off their line with little or no notice. I get to the head of the line and I think one other bike has run. I decide to start the run - if it doesn't feel good I'll back out at the 1/2 mile point. That will keep my speed down if it does get squirrely, but will also give me the tuning data I need to keep advancing. I get to the line. The starter warns me about the winds. I acknowledge them and tell him my plan. The bike feels good through the entire run so I stay in it. I feel either the clutch slip or the tire spin at the top of second or the 2-3 shift. It feels faster entering the braking zone - get on the brakes hard - but still have plenty of room to get stopped - but no room to waste either!
Get to the timing trailer - they ask if I have a green wrist band? No. "Well you need one now!" Awesome! 186.1 mph in some crappy conditions!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hrbIk9fOFY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hrbIk9fOFY)
Get back to the pits - the routine is getting better now. Sharpen up the tune and go back out for another run. Time to try the seat cowl to see if it adds a few mph. I must have test fit the seat cowl with just the leathers on - the fit is pretty tight with the back protector on. Not much room to move around on the seat - pretty much locked into position and more difficult to get into a good tuck. Hopefully the cowl will be worth the effort! Need to hurry if we want to get another run in before the track closes.
Winds are still a quartering head wind and gusty so the line is fairly short. Looks The run is good - short shift to third gear when I feel the clutch slip or tire spin again. Time to either add weight to the lockup arms on the clutch or progress the nitrous over a longer time. Get the time slip - small improvements - 187.7 mph. Head to the pits.
It has been a hell of a good day!
Just noticed the purple wrist band - so that pic was from earlier in the day
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: FJmonkey on September 07, 2016, 03:59:23 PM
The image from FB...
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: FJmonkey on September 07, 2016, 04:12:55 PM
Looks like he made in a second picture as well. Is the RV really going for a time slip?
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on September 07, 2016, 08:54:06 PM
Is the RV really going for a time slip?
Yep! There was one last year -- TWO this year
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on September 07, 2016, 08:55:13 PM
A racer I met at Bandimere took some pics and a video at the Mile. It's another shot of run 7.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPmJDfj5b_s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPmJDfj5b_s)
We're done racing for the day, but still working like scared rats so in the morning all we need to do is add a warm nitrous bottle and warm up the FJ. Tuning is focused on scaling up the 100 shot tune to 125. Then, in the microsquirt, split that tune across two "stages" of nitrous. We're doing this to get the added fuel from the microsquirt to roughly follow the nitrous controller over a longer progression. The last two runs at 100 HP shot of nitrous have shown we are bringing in the nitrous a little too quick for either the clutch or the tire to handle. Not sure if it is the clutch or tire that can't cope - but slowing the nitrous progression is a solution for both problems! It's also time to regear - start installing the 33 tooth rear, but change course and keep the 35 and go to the 19 tooth counter shaft sprocket instead. 18/33 and 19/35 are very close gearing -- but if I need more gear tomorrow it will be quicker and easier to swap the rear sprocket. Fill the old nitrous bottle so we have both ready to go in the morning. Install the 125 HP nitrous jet. Get that funny feeling that says to double check the nitrous setting in the microsquirt - holy cow! Found a VERY LOW fuel setting mistake that could cost the engine. Whew!
Time to load up and be ready for tomorrow!
Sunday morning is our best chance - temps will be cooler and the winds are supposed to kick up in the afternoon again. Decide to get more aggressive - we'll make one pass at 125 shot of nitrous and then go to a 150 shot. Since the data logging for the microsquirt has been giving issues the last few runs, I think long and hard about that. I figure we have a pretty good handle now how the bike is reacting after 9 runs - 7 on nitrous. If the data logger doesn't cooperate we will press on. I do have the GoPro and can l
"Watch" the AFR indicator on the dash - it is not very precise, but does a good job at showing trend data. Oh yeah - the O2 sensor started flaking out the last couple runs. I'm thinking it may be a programming/corruption issue with the LC-1 wideband O2 sensor I'm using -- that problem plagued me early on with the EFI conversion on the streetbike - caused by low voltage during cranking. I'm a little frustrated about that since I wired this one differently - it only gets power after the engine is running. Then I realize it is probably the leaded race gas fouling the sensor - especially with as rich as the tunes have been. Something else to try to get on the way to the track in the morning...
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on September 07, 2016, 10:31:20 PM
I've lost Ryan from the crew today - something about a honey-do list... The crew today will be my son, his best friend, and my mother-in-law. Have to delay 30 minutes for the parts store to open up. Luckily they have the Bosch O2 sensor we are looking for. We still get to the track about a half hour before they start running and unpacking and bike prep goes fairly well. My son texts - his friend bailed, so he's bringing a girl he knows instead. Great - I know where his attention will be. We are in line on the grid shortly after they start running. Lines are fairly long - everyone has the same idea as us.
My son shows up before the first run and runs the "pre-run" checklist. He's actually gotten pretty good at it and isn't distracted like I expected. We get ready to roll up to the line - the data logger finally connects to the microsquirt just as I say "screw it" and head to the line. Weather conditions are looking good! Not much wind and hasn't gotten hot yet! Bog a bit off the line but recover - rest of the run feels good and FAST! Definitely the fastest into the braking zone so far! (of course the GoPro goes AWOL on this run - had it mounted on the tail - it dies right on the launch)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sycoQDe7Cbw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sycoQDe7Cbw)
Feel good as I roll up to the timing tent. 194.5 mph! We've got a chance - it's going to be close!
We hustle in the pits - really want to get off the next run before lunch - winds are starting to pick up a little...
Check the logs - AFR is fat as expected - reduce it by 6% then scale it up for the 150 shot. Take out a couple more degrees of timing. Swap bottles, new nitrous jet goes in, tape the seat cowl up again. We change to the 33 rear sprocket since We hit the shift light in 5th (set at 9600 RPM now) - gearing is now 19/33. Quickly check over everything and back to the grid!
A couple of the veterans come by - impressed with the speed we ran. Asked if we had bumped up the nitrous - yep, and we just bumped it up again! All weekend - after we started spraying - everyone comments on how fast it takes off in 2nd gear! Really cool to have everyone pulling for us and wishing us luck. While we are waiting, a small rain cloud passes by spitting at us on the staging end of the runway. The wind is picking up a little more - but not as bad as yesterday.
We go through the checklist - no errors now! And the data logger isn't cooperating again - finally connects rolling up to the line again.
Launch goes good for how tall its geared. Runs feels good and FAST!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVvEhVh08o8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVvEhVh08o8)
Hard to describe the feeling of the speed - different than I expected. The bike never misbehaves at speed - remains completely composed - even under braking.
Roll up to the timing trailer - 198.2 mph! We are so close!
Everyone is really excited now! We can all taste it! Get back to the pits about the time they take the lunch break. I know winds were forecast to pick up in the afternoon and they are. Crap - really hope we don't have to fight them too hard!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on September 08, 2016, 02:52:22 PM
The image from FB...
Mark - where did you find those? I went looking but didn't find any. Thanks!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: FJmonkey on September 08, 2016, 03:17:48 PM
I used the link Randy posted along with his photo of a screen shot. Looks like Randy pulled his post after I copied the images from FB (no need for dupe images). Maybe Randy can repost the link.
The image from FB...
Mark - where did you find those? I went looking but didn't find any. Thanks!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: racerrad8 on September 08, 2016, 03:39:35 PM
Maybe Randy can repost the link.
Someone send me the link. I believe it was under The U.S. Mile FB public page.
Randy - RPM
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on September 08, 2016, 05:48:50 PM
Found them - they were posts vice pictures
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on September 08, 2016, 09:48:31 PM
High energy in the pits as we prep to go out after lunch and try for 200! Although the winds are picking up, they have swung around form the South West – TAILWIND!!! Everyone is excited to see the tail wind, but also know it can change by the time you get to the grid, or by the time you get to the start line. Either way, we are going to be ready.
The nitrous solenoid we are using is rated for 150 HP. That's what we sprayed on the last pass. I look at the logs – we are very rich, and are taking out a lot of timing - so there is more horsepower to be had! After thinking it through for a while, I decide to install a 175 HP nitrous jet to make sure the 150 jet wasn't slightly restrictive or maybe the solenoid will flow slightly more than the rated 150. Since we may get a little more flow, I only take out half of the "extra" fuel. I also keep the timing retard where it is – want to make sure we have the fuel "wired" before bringing in more timing. Although I'm want to get out and go for a big number on this run, I also realize we have time to make more passes and don't need to push it all in at once. Everyone is pitching in. My wife is taping up places we are trying to control the airflow a bit. The three pieces of tape I placed under the chin of the fairing for the last pass have blown off and are wrapped up in the fork legs – that tells me they were doing some good – but not strong enough. She is replacing that and reinforcing it with multiple layers. My son is looking for places around the tail that can catch air directing here where to tape while he's swapping out the nitrous bottle. I'm tweaking the tune and trying to make sure the GoPro works this time.
Head out to the grid. Everyone there is pumped up for the tailwinds. The bike guys we've been talking with all weekend are wishing us luck for 200.
On the grid getting ready to run.
Waiting to roll up – you can see quite a bit more tape on the bodywork this time around
My son and I go through the pre-run checklist. We're both excited but focused.
As I roll up to the start line I notice the shifter button is missing the "button" part – all that is there now is a metal post inside the metal surround. I put my thumb over it without pressing it, hoping I can press it with my gloves on. It seems like I can, so I decide to make the run. Push the bike up to the line – we've still got a quartering tail wind!
The starter waves me onto the course. Pretty good launch – ride the clutch a bit more and it doesn't bog as bad. I shift second a little early - anticipating issues with the shift but it goes well. Feel the nitrous come in and start pulling hard. Shift light on – press the shifter – NOTHING! Hit it again – NOTHING. Try again and get the shift and the bike takes off again, but something sounds off. Stay in it hoping I'm being paranoid. Shift again and the bike continues, but not with the same force as before. Pass the mile mark and slow – definitely not as fast as before. Start braking and I look behind me – no smoke and don't think I see oil. Engine is still running, but is definitely hurt. Make it to the timing trailer and the engine doesn't want to idle. Get my ticket – 175.9mph. Yep, I think we may be done. Get it in the wheel chock and start looking over it. I don't see anything outwardly wrong. I pull the seat and side panels. Rotate the tank and pull #3 spark plug. It looks good. Pull #2 - it looks good too. Pull #1 – looks good. Pull #4 – the side electrode is melted off. Now I'm hoping we just melted down a plug but didn't hurt the engine. Put a new set of plugs in. Engine starts but doesn't want to idle. Something is definitely wrong. Look at the exhaust headers to see if there is a leak. See if throttle body rubber has come loose. Then I see the cylinder head gasket failure outboard of #4 cylinder and the damage done to the head. We're done.
Now I'm trying to figure out just what happened. Look at the data logs and it doesn't jump out at me, but the key indicators are there. Most likely missing the shift to 3rd gear set up a chain of events that caused a momentary lean out of the engine – so quick it doesn't even show up on the AFR trace. The "error chain" looks like this: I setup the nitrous to active between 5,000 RPM and 10,500 RPM with the rev limiter set to 11,000 RPM – this because it usually damages the bearings in the lower end when you hit the rev limiter on nitrous; I learned in early testing with nitrous that if you interupt the nitrous routine (roll out of the throttle or go over the max RPM set for the nitrous) the ECU RESTARTS the nitrous routine, but the nitrous controller CONTINUES WHERE IT LEFT OFF. I had previously set the nitrous to turn off about 200 RPM before the shift to make it much easier on the transmission and more reliable shifting with a shorter kill time for the shifts. When I went from a 25 shot to 50 shot in testing (on the OLD motor by the way) I noticed the AFR leaning out at the beginning of the next gear. The way I got around this was to continue to spray the nitrous through the shift – this was why we had back fires and flames on the shifts – especially at higher nitrous levels! Combine the missing shifter button with the fact I can't use the tach to anticipate the shift light and you have the setup that lead to our demise. When I didn't make the shift to 3rd gear, the RPMs went to 10,850, disabling the nitrous above 10,500 RPM, then reinstating it when the RPMs fell below 10,500. The ECU added fuel back in for 40% of a 150 HP shot, but the nitrous controller resumed somewhere around 80-90% of 150 HP. Looks like it detonated the worst in the #4 cylinder and the spike in the combustion pressure took out the head gasket there. I think when the nitrous and fuel were restarted it burned through where the head gasket failed and notched the head like a blow torch. We'll know more when I get the engine back to Randy and he performs the autopsy.
Needless to say I have several changes for the program for next year to go faster – and so does Randy! Some includes improvements to the engine, some to the body work, and some to the systems – like the ECU maybe, the nitrous controller, shift system, etc.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on September 08, 2016, 10:06:25 PM
How powerful was the FJ? Powerful enough to blow out the window of the Maclaren parked behind us!
No, seriously, this happened while we were figuring out what happened after the last run. Evidently the owner asked his friend (a Maclaren factory mechanic) to bring the car to the grid. When he opened the door the window exploded! Holy crap! The owner handled it well.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj johnnie on September 09, 2016, 06:04:49 PM
Excellent write up. It's too bad it ended this way however your results are absolutely phenomenal. Thanks for sharing this experience with us. I am amazed at your willingness to attempt such a thing. Bravo!!!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: racerrad8 on September 09, 2016, 07:02:03 PM
Chris has several more photos listed in his gallery: http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=gallery;su=user;u=171 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=gallery;su=user;u=171)
Randy - RPM
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: Mike 86 in San Dimas on September 09, 2016, 08:27:23 PM
That practically made me horny where's the Viagra? Great write.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: Firehawk068 on September 13, 2016, 09:04:35 PM
Awesome results Chris! :yahoo:
Man, you are so close...............I bet you surprised the majority of the competitors there.
Sorry to hear about the motor issue.
You'll have it back together in no time.
Wish I could have been there to help out, but that weekend is a tough one to plan around.
Let me know if you need any help. :good:
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on September 16, 2016, 01:18:41 PM
We DID surprise a lot of competitors!
How about the guy I met as we waited to get our pits setup on Thursday evening -- he had a 2014 Kawasaki H2 (the street legal one) with "all the Brock's mods" as he put it. His top speed: 185.2!
Or maybe the 2015 Kawasaki H2R (the race-only one!) How about 187.3!
Or a 2005 Hayabusa Turbo - 189.7!
One other cool "old" bike out there was a 1986 GSXR750 (Mike was running a high compression 1216cc big bore 1100 engine on flatslide carbs with a shot of nitrous) 194.0 mph. After we popped the motor we were trying to help him out - refilling his 2 pound nitrous bottles. He was only using them in 4th and 5th gear since he thought he was going to run out of nitrous. I filled a couple of his spare bottles so he could start spraying in 3rd gear. The rain came in before he could run again.
The run I'm most impressed with is the 196.3 posted up by a 1998 GSXR600 turbo! Holy crap! It was from the same team that set the high speed for the event with a 237.9 from a 2003 Hayabusa turbo (seriously land speed race only).
I know on Friday NO ONE expected the numbers we ended up running! A huge thanks to Randy for putting together a seriously strong engine that took all the nitrous I could throw at it! It took a serious setup error and riding error that caused a bad lean out on a large shot of nitrous to hurt it. When I first starting putting this bike together as a drag bike many years ago I had several people warning me the crankshaft is weak and will break if you try to get too much out of it. Well, I think we already got "too much" out of it -- and we're going for a fair amount more next year! Note to self: need to buy bigger nitrous solenoid!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: jscgdunn on September 16, 2016, 01:41:30 PM
Amazing to run faster than the new H2! Great job!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: Dads_FJ on September 16, 2016, 01:59:38 PM
Is there a date set for next years event? As good as you are writing about your experience - I REALLY want to be there!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on September 16, 2016, 02:55:44 PM
Is there a date set for next years event? As good as you are writing about your experience - I REALLY want to be there!
I'm assuming Labor Day weekend again -- so I'd guess Sept 1-3 (Fri - Sun) for 2017. Official release should come out sometime after the first of the year if I remember correctly.
Come join us! I'm sure randy will throw a T-shirt at you and put you to work! Based on feedback from this year, next year there will be a lot more written checklists/instructions taped up for the various jobs so someone can "own" that for the weekend or the day.
The researching and planning for the changes for next year are already underway! Top priority is to fix what bit us this year so it doesn't happen again (fuel and nitrous control, shifting), improve some things that were problematic (datalogging, tach, shift light, nitrous bottle mounting), and figure out how to go faster within our original intent of keeping the spirit and appearance of the FJ intact! (more nitrous! and whatever Randy finds to improve on inside the engine), and the sum of all the small changes and improvements we will make to everything we touch in the off season! And that way maybe when the glass breaks on the exotic car parked behind us next year, it WILL be from the POWER we're putting down! :diablo:
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on September 25, 2016, 11:54:36 PM
It's the "off season" so time to get busy! I've been thinking through what needs to be improved on for next year. Four things are top on the list: shift button, nitrous and fuel control, data logging, and tachometer.
One thing that effects all those is the fuel injection ECU. I want to stick with the megasquirt family since I am familiar with them, have experience tuning with them, and the latest versions - the megasquirt 3 lineup - are extremely capable and include features only found in high end race ECUs -- and even then usually only as extra cost add-one -- such as progressive nitrous control, traction control, sequential shift kill adjustable by gear, auto shifting adjustable by gear, in board SD-card data logging, etc.
The MS3Pro is their top level ECU - a small sealed unit similar to the microsquirt but much more capable and much more expensive. It's tempting - but I'm not convinced it's the best bang for the buck. Spend some more time studying the rest of the MS3 lineup - the "power" of the ECU comes from both the ECU itself as well as the tuning software that goes with it. The rest of the MS3 lineup is based on the DIY kits (although pre-assembled kits are available too). Turns out you can upgrade MS2 ECUs and some MS1 ECUs depending on the mother board used. Hmmm - there's an MS1 I bought off Craigslist in the garage. I bought it thinking it was an MS2 and tried unsuccessfully to get it running on the street bike over a year ago (after swapping the microsquirt to the race bike). The ECU was built and customized by a builder in Canada. Like many "custom" megasquirt builders - it seems like they start with great ideas, good work, and timely customer service. Then life gets in the way and customer service wains. I also experienced this with the first ECU I used (a custom built plug-n-play ECU for a Hayabusa).
Good news - the MS1 was built on a V3.0 board -- its upgradeable. Time to start digging and researching and reverse engineering the modifications made to the "stock" megasquirt.
Two things in play - an adaptor for the industrial connector and an add-on Input/Output (I/O) card. The industrial connector is a nice mod compared to the standard DB37 printer cable type connector.
The I/O card has a launch control (2 step), knock sensor input circuit, idle valve control, and possibly other functions I haven't figured out yet.
So far I've removed the I/O card and two high-current coil driver circuits. The high current driver circuits will be replaced by logic level circuits.
From a lot of research and a few questions on the forums it looks like the MS3Base version will do what is needed. The MS3X includes an additional I/O card that handles a TON of additional inputs and outputs - more than needed for this application. So no need for the additional complications at this time, or the bulk from the additional connector and harness. If I can get all the functions needed without the eXpansion card it will keep the install as simple as possible and not need a second harness.
These are the functions I'm looking to use:
INJECTOR banks 1&2
IGNITION channels A&B
Shift IN
Shift OUT
N2O stage 1 OUT (progressive control)
N2O stage 2 OUT (progressive control)
VSS (front wheel speed)
Shift Light
Fuel Pressure (for data logging)
N2O Pressure (for data logging)
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: racerrad8 on September 29, 2016, 10:59:24 AM
This came in the mail today.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/IMG_2716_zpsleq4wcpb.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/IMG_2716_zpsleq4wcpb.jpg.html)
Really cool stuff.
Thanks Chris.
Randy - RPM
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: FJmonkey on September 29, 2016, 11:49:35 AM
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: Firehawk068 on September 29, 2016, 03:39:31 PM
Awesome stuff!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: racerrad8 on October 15, 2016, 01:58:50 PM
The engine arrived back for the autopsy. Chris updated the box...
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/IMG_2817_zps8fgrj7ec.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/IMG_2817_zps8fgrj7ec.jpg.html)
Randy - RPM
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: racerrad8 on October 18, 2016, 04:51:09 PM
Started the autopsy today, we definitely had a major failure in #4 due to the shifting/over-rev issues.
The head is no good. You can see the damage of pre-ignition between the exhaust valve seats.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/IMG_2826_zpsi7cvjw85.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/IMG_2826_zpsi7cvjw85.jpg.html)
Only a small sign of damage to the top of the piston.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/IMG_2828_zpslayto4en.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/IMG_2828_zpslayto4en.jpg.html)
But the heat and head pressure was more than the head gasket could take.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/IMG_2825_zpspineqeoh.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/IMG_2825_zpspineqeoh.jpg.html)
The head is trenched to the fin, about 3/16" if an inch. The screw impression in the head was from a prior build and was just like that when it was assembled.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/IMG_2823_zpsav34835j.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/IMG_2823_zpsav34835j.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/IMG_2824_zpsv0gb27nz.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/IMG_2824_zpsv0gb27nz.jpg.html)
It even trenched the aluminum of the cylinder outside of the steel sleeve, ruining the cylinder as well.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/IMG_2827_zpsedsglx5g.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/IMG_2827_zpsedsglx5g.jpg.html)
I was optimistic we might have escaped further damage by the top of the pistons. I was relieved when I pulled the cylinder and looked at the back side of all of the pistons; no scuffing everything looked great. I rocked the pistons over to look at the front and was disappointed.
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/IMG_2829_zpslsdclfyg.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/IMG_2829_zpslsdclfyg.jpg.html)
(http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/racerrad8/IMG_2830_zpsla9cav5n.jpg) (http://s1215.photobucket.com/user/racerrad8/media/IMG_2830_zpsla9cav5n.jpg.html)
The final step of the autopsy tomorrow to see how the bottom end looks...
The shifter $6.00 shifter button cost at least the top of the engine. But I am still impressed with the effort put forward and how close we got to the goal on the first attempt.
Randy - RPM
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: PaulG on October 19, 2016, 06:26:28 AM
F1 engines (and others of that caliber) are machined to tolerances so they don't require gaskets. That eliminates gasket failure due to their extreme operating conditions. Is that doable with the FJ head? I wouldn't imagine there are too many shops that could do that level of work, or if it would be cost prohibitive.
My old Beemer '78 R80/7 air head had no base gaskets where the jugs met the crankcase, just a metal to metal fit. It also had a much much (a lot more much) lower compression ratio so it was never a problem.
Would be intersting if that was an option.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: racerrad8 on October 19, 2016, 10:14:39 AM
F1 engines (and others of that caliber) are machined to tolerances so they don't require gaskets. That eliminates gasket failure due to their extreme operating conditions. Is that doable with the FJ head? I wouldn't imagine there are too many shops that could do that level of work, or if it would be cost prohibitive.
My old Beemer '78 R80/7 air head had no base gaskets where the jugs met the crankcase, just a metal to metal fit. It also had a much much (a lot more much) lower compression ratio so it was never a problem.
Would be intersting if that was an option.
I doubt it. There are a couple of other things that would be problematic with the lack of a head gasket. We would loose .040 clearance to the head. That would require a longer cylinder to not have contact issues with the head. Then there is the lowering of the compression ratio for the nitrous usage. At the end of the day, gasket or newer technology that doesn't use them still would have a similar catastrophic failure.
Randy - RPM
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: Pat Conlon on October 19, 2016, 10:26:13 AM
Re: Headgasket failure: On our boosted Miata engines, to handle the extreme pressures, builders have O ringed each cylinder....is that doable?
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: racerrad8 on October 19, 2016, 10:50:44 AM
Re: Headgasket failure: On our boosted Miata engines, to handle the extreme pressures, builders have O ringed each cylinder....is that doable?
Not sure what the need would be to do that. The head gasket is properly sealed on all other cylinders. If the head gasket would not have failed it would have just continued to burn out the aluminum between the exhaust valves and the top of the piston.
This was a catastrophic event that was going to damage engine parts no matter if the gasket failed or not. It was not the fault of the gasket seal, it was a result of dumping too much nitrous in the motor without the proper amount of fuel due. That occurred do to the over-rev and reset of the ECU during the run which resulted in the not enough gasoline for the nitrous.
When I didn't make the shift to 3rd gear, the RPMs went to 10,850, disabling the nitrous above 10,500 RPM, then reinstating it when the RPMs fell below 10,500. The ECU added fuel (gasoline) back in for 40% of a 150 HP shot, but the nitrous controller resumed somewhere around 80-90% of 150 HP.
The only thing I can compare this too is this...https://youtu.be/MkrSZOIKMCY?t=45s
Without the failure, there would have been many more passes on the engine. So far other than the upper end damage, it looks fantastic, does not smell cooked. i thnk this is a strong enough foundation to achieve the goal.
Randy - RPM
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on October 19, 2016, 11:46:06 AM
This was NOT a gasket failure per se -- it was a rider/tuning/equipment failure that caused extreme detonation - the gasket was just one of many fatalities.
Here's a quick, simple discussion on normal combustion and detonation (this is taken from an airplane website - so some of the advance #'s may be different from what we use):
Per Smokey Yunick - "engines run better on fuel than aluminum"
If we had lost the head gasket while working up to our max nitrous levels then we'd need to do something about it - o-ringing may be the only option for the FJ engine. For some engines, stronger studs can be used to increase the clamping loads on the gasket. But for the FJ the weak link is the case where the studs screw in -- Randy says he routinely finds the APR studs loose in engines he disassembles because they have pulled the threads in the case.
With nitrous (or turbos or superchargers) you are increasing the cylinder pressure during combustion. In this case enough to increase horsepower nearly 250%! So, on the fist picture, I don't know what the cylinder pressure would be for "normal" combustion on nitrous - 1000 psi? 1200? The key difference between the added pressure from the nitrous and the added pressure from detonation is the UNCONTROLLED sudden violent rise in pressure with detonation vice the CONTROLLED increase with nitrous (helped with appropriately rich mixtures and timing retard).
I'm impressed with the engine Randy put together and some of the counter-intuitive things he did to help it live at those levels! I'm also impressed the stock sized valves did not flow limit us - the engine just kept making more power the more nitrous we threw at it. I wish I knew and understood 10 years ago what I am learning now about the level of quality of the stock parts! Randy said the valve train still looks great - no signs of heat damage! I'm not sure we talked about this before - we used the stock shim over bucket setup - just opened up the clearances a little over stock to allow for the anticipated increased heat.
Anyone have a stock cylinder head they'd be willing to sponsor for the effort? Randy informed neither of the spare heads I have are suitable - one of the heads I have is a paper weight and the other has been milled too much for this application. We are pushing the goal up a bit higher for next year - looking for 215 mph. The highest documented speed for an FJ we can find is 214.285 mph for the 1380 turbo nitrous FJ in the Oct '93 Sport Rider UFO article.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on October 23, 2016, 08:24:21 PM
Here are the highlights of the Colorado Mile posted recently. We have the notoriety of being the fastest vehicle that didn't make 200 mph.
If my name was Christina or something we would have gotten a mention as the fastest woman....
http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?m=1102467289892&ca=c7ea5020-b343-460b-ac85-c504bf200d50 (http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?m=1102467289892&ca=c7ea5020-b343-460b-ac85-c504bf200d50)
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on November 30, 2016, 01:01:41 AM
Dates for 2017 are 8-10 Sept. That's the weekend after Labor Day weekend this time around. Work continues - replacement parts are being sourced and improvements are being made with the intentions of getting more speed out of her for next year!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: Firehawk068 on November 30, 2016, 07:56:37 AM
Dates for 2017 are 8-10 Sept. That's the weekend after Labor Day weekend this time around. Work continues - replacement parts are being sourced and improvements are being made with the intentions of getting more speed out of her for next year!
I'm in for any crew duties you may need. At least for Saturday and Sunday.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on November 30, 2016, 05:47:04 PM
Dates for 2017 are 8-10 Sept. That's the weekend after Labor Day weekend this time around. Work continues - replacement parts are being sourced and improvements are being made with the intentions of getting more speed out of her for next year!
I'm in for any crew duties you may need. At least for Saturday and Sunday.
Sounds good Alan! I'm sure we'll have plenty of jobs to assign to willing volunteers. :drinks:
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on December 13, 2016, 01:34:44 AM
What do you do with your weekends when your company sends you to a 4 week long training course between Thanksgiving and Christmas? Work on the bike! First weekend drove to a junk yard to find a couple of 40 amp solid state relays for $5 a piece! Then found a computer recycling place and picked up an old tough book for $30. No operating system though. It took a few days to get a Linux distro loaded up that I could get to run TunerStudio and MegaLogViewer. (I know just enough about Linux to google a problem, then copy and paste the commands that someone posts that are supposed to solve the problem - if it works or doesn't I don't really understand why -- then google my way through the next issue!).
Last weekend (after finishing the classroom work and passing the written exam) I returned to the junk yard and pull some sensors (and other parts) to do some basic testing when I get finished with the ECU. Spent the rest of the weekend finishing the input and output circuits for the ECU. Then added the MS3 daughter card to upgrade the MegaSquirt 1 ECU to a MegaSquirt 3. Ordered the daughter card the first week here and got it last week. This upgrade to the ECU is the equivalent of upgrading from a daily driver to a full on race car!
New MS3 daughter card and DIY I/O card installed on the modified MS1 mother board
Completed ECU with firmware uploaded. Connected some junk yard sensors tonight to test the most basic functions of the ECU. The TPS, coolant sensor, and intake air temp sensor work as expected. This week I'll try to get the basic tune loaded - need to see if there are any tricks to importing an MS2 tune to the new MS3 (the microsquirt we've run the last 3 years runs the MS2 software).
This is a major upgrade for the race effort and will simplify the shift kill and control for the air shifter AND have complete control over the nitrous system -- two of the critical improvements needed from last years effort.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: FJmonkey on December 13, 2016, 09:10:06 AM
Looks like rocket scientist magic stuff.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: copper on December 13, 2016, 05:42:44 PM
Did you remove the hair dryer from the wall?
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on December 13, 2016, 11:43:43 PM
Did you remove the hair dryer from the wall?
You know it! Just a simple little wall bracket - sure beat trying to move the whole setup to the bathroom!
Come on Mark - I figured with your CNC and 3D printer programming skills this would be cave man level work...
Worked this evening to import an old tune from the microsquirt to the MS3. Stated with 220 errors - clean now. Simply resetting the basic engine info and adjusting a couple parameters cleared up the first 216! The last four were related to the nitrous settings. All cleared. Now just trying to tidy up the rest of the settings so it can be put on the shelf and be ready when it comes time to reassemble the race bike and start tuning the new setup.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on December 19, 2016, 11:30:06 PM
Finished up the MegaSquirt 3 this weekend. This was built on a MegaSquirt 1 I bought a couple years ago on craigslist. This was a "custom" MS 1 built by a specialty shop in Canada called EFI4Tuning. When I first purchased it, the owner was very responsive. However, a few months ago when I asked for the price of a competed, ready to run MS3X he had listed on his site, I got no response. Tried a couple times with the same result. This is sadly the exact same story I faced after buying a custom MS 2 (directly from the builder) that was Hayabusa specific that had been highly recommended to me. It seems this is not an unusual occurrence unfortunately in the megasquirt/microsquirt world. There are many "specialty builders" that decide to make some money from their expertise in their hobby. Despite their best intentions, life events overcome the "hobby job" and you are left to your own devices for any future tech support!
What I liked about the EFI4Tuning MegaSquirt (and why I stuck with it) is the Molex connectors in place of the DB37 printer cable style connector on standard boards. The board is also built to fit in a more compact case than the standard MS 1 or 2. I was able to take advantage of this and fit the MS 3 build inside the smaller MS 2 sized case. You can see the size difference compared to the normal MS 3 case:
Upgrading to the MS 3 solves a few problems we faced last year:
1. On board datalogging to an SD card. No more fighting with a Bluetooth adaptor or specialized cable and a cell phone or tablet to record the data. This caused several issues last time out and left a couple runs without run data to analyze – not good with large loads of nitrous!
2. Air shifter control – both shift kill settings and auto shift settings – both can be varied by gear. No more having to cobble up a system based on hijacking the shift light signal and swapping polarity thru an additional relay – all self-contained now. This could have prevented the missed shift and resulting blown engine last time out.
3. Built in progressive nitrous control. This alone eliminates two additional electronic boxes (nitrous controller and a shift controller used to trigger the nitrous in second gear). This is huge – eliminating the nitrous controller eliminates the fuel control/nitrous control mis-match that ultimately caused the engine failure this year. It does look like I will have to go to a wet system to make full use of the capabilities. (A wet system uses a fuel solenoid and nozzles to add the required fuel vice using the ECU to add fuel through the fuel injectors). This system will allow the nitrous to be started at a lower percentage so the nitrous can be used sooner and ramped up quicker without upsetting the suspension.
Another feature this ECU upgrade gives is a couple different methods of nitrous progression. Time based progression is a typical method. The option I want to try is based on vehicle speed (using a VSS – vehicle speed sensor). The plan is to setup the VSS on the front wheel. If the back wheel spins and the accelerations slows, so will the nitrous progression. If the front wheel lifts, it will slow and the nitrous will decrease with it until it comes down again.
Next improvements to start on will be some aero mods (while keeping the FJ "look" and "character").
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: jnimbostratus on December 21, 2016, 09:22:49 PM
I want to upgrade to ms3 after my rebuild but the physical size is a concern for placement but i really want that pitlane rev limiter (rolling antilag) to build boost. Decisions decisions. I look forward to your feedback on the ms3 upgrade.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on January 10, 2017, 01:22:21 PM
Good news for the MS3 upgrade - new Beta firmware has been released that fixes the mismatched fueling side for progressive dry nitrous! :yahoo: I don't have to go to a wet nitrous system now!
Looking over the race bike last night and it's crazy how much space will be cleared up by removing the three electronic boxes that were all interconnected in an attempt to get all the functions this ECU will have all in one box. I think this will be the fourth complete rewire of this bike - I should to be able to make a pretty clean wiring harness by now!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on March 06, 2017, 12:03:15 PM
Ordered some new nitrous pieces this past week. Actually, everything from the bottle valves forward!
The nitrous setup from last year was pieced together with various pieces and parts I had picked up over the years. It worked well, but could be improved on. The goal with a nitrous system is to get the nitrous from the bottle to the engine in dense liquid form and equally distributed to each cylinder. The more dense the nitrous is at the injection point the more power you will make AND the more charge cooling you will have that will help reduce the chance of detonation. This can cool the intake temps 70 degrees or more!
The new system will be able to start at a lower percentage than we used last year so it can be brought in sooner and smoother (easier on the engine!). It will also be able to be pulsed at a higher rate which will also make things smoother and easier on the engine.
The improved nitrous controls in the upgraded ECU will let the fuel curve (and ignition retard) match the nitrous curve as it is progressed vice having to "dump" the fuel in two fixed stages and let the nitrous "catch up" with the over rich condition - and the overly retarded ignition.
Randy has come up with some good ideas based on what we've seen inside the engine to further improve things - some piston mods and head mods that should be even more nitrous friendly.
Bottom line the new system should give more power at the same nitrous levels, and be able to deliver more nitrous (if needed!) than the old system while being smoother and easier on parts at the same time. Combine this with some aero mods and better nitrous / fuel control from the upgraded ECU...hoping to put up some very good numbers this year!
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: jnimbostratus on March 24, 2017, 08:21:03 AM
Exciting stuff man more and smoother power plus better aero I can't wait to see the results compared to your previous setup. I wish I was closer to landspeed stuff I think I would really enjoy getting into that stuff. This year I'm hoping to get to the drag strip a few times.
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on June 05, 2017, 12:50:32 PM
One of these:
A bunch of these:
A lot of this:
And it's time to start rewiring the beast! Rather than try to salvage any of the existing ECU wiring, I've decided to re wire it all - again! Think this will be the fourth wiring harness from scratch for this bike. Hopefully it'll go quicker and smoother than previous attempts - and come out a bit neater too!
I've also salvaged some very nice shielded wiring harness sleeve from a scrap bin at work. It should make for a very nice harness if I plan it all out properly...
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: FJ120086 on July 08, 2017, 03:28:00 PM
someone posted this link over on FB earlier today.
WOW. it is disappointing the photos are not able to be viewed. Hopefully they can be reposted because it would be neat to see it all. Is 200mph the goal this year or even more?
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: aviationfred on July 08, 2017, 06:31:43 PM
Here are a couple of photos
Title: Re: FJ Land speed racer
Post by: fj1289 on August 10, 2017, 07:37:20 AM
No pics to post, but progress continues.
Removed the existing ECU (microsquirt) and all its associated wiring. Also deleted the separate nitrous progressive controller, separate datalogger, and Dyna shift counter. I kept most of the "power distribution" wiring - main switch, kill switch, safety lanyard, fuse panel, and relays for main power and the fuel pump. Changed some of the functionality to suit the new ECU (Megasquirt MS3). The main relay is controlled by 12v from the master switch and ground through the safety lanyard. The main relay provides 12v to the ECU and for the control side of the fuel pump relay. The ECU provides the ground control for the fuel pump relay through the kill switch. All power to the fuse panel also comes from the fuel pump relay. This lets me kill the engine and all other electrics with the kill switch while still keeping the ECU powered. The master switch or safety lanyard then kills all power.
I have most of the new ECU wiring installed and tested. The air shifter and nitrous solenoid still needs to be wired up. I'm traveling home from vacation today - then will be home for maybe three days - then we have an aircraft to ferry to Jordan (ironically the same plane we brought over last August before the Mile). We are scheduled to get home two weeks prior to the Colorado Mile.
I swapped in the "street engine" - which is the engine I originally put together for Bonneville. Time and budget constraints this year will limit the improvements we wanted to make to the engine after last year. That said, the improvements we have been able to make in the aero, nitrous setup, and the fuel injection ECU should help up the speed a respectable amount and improve consistency and reliability.