text:
This just popped-up in the comments section, from Magpul Industries founder and CEO Richard Fitzpatrick:
This is a more complete statement..
With our distribution model, it would be difficult to enforce such a blanket policy, and would be a symbolic gesture. Just as it is difficult to stop $50 and $100 PMAGs at the retail level from resellers that buy through multiple levels of distribution, stopping sales to specific end-users would be almost impossible for the same reasons . . .
On the other side of this, we have seen the efforts of the Larimer County Sheriff and others in the CO Sheriffs' Association, who have been incredible advocates for the Second Amendment here in the fight we are currently in. If a ban passes, these guys would be the ones hurt, and the politicians wouldn't care. They would also be on our side. On the same front, about 600 of the NYSP have come out in protest of the NY SAFE act and in support of responsible Citizens and the 2A, at the risk of losing their jobs, their retirement, and the safety of their families. Are these the guys that we want to punish? Lumping all individual officers together and wanting to punish them all is no different than politicians who want to punish responsible Citizens for the behavior of criminals. Would a check box on the LE/MIL order form affirming 2A support for all Citizens make a difference? How many out there click on "I Accept" for terms and agreements before an iOS update without reading or caring what they are? Would anyone NOT click such a box? Chuck Schumer would even click that box if he was trying to order PMAGs. (We wouldn't ship that one.)
If these LEOs who support our cause, and are "gun guys" find employment elsewhere because they can't get the right gear to perform their jobs safely, or if politicians fire them for voicing their objections, they will simply be replaced with new faces that aren't gun guys, don't know any better, and may gladly stomp on your rights without a second thought if given the order. As it stands now, these pro-gun LEOs in occupied or potentially occupied territory are the only voices of reason among the LEO ranks there. Do we really want to purge them out and replace them with guys that wouldn't know the difference between an AR and a Hi-point, and so couldn't care less which one they are armed with, and that will also blindly follow anti-2A directives without objection? If you think that politicians will be affected by LE or MIL having less effective tools to do their jobs, you would be mistaken. I enlisted in the USMC during the Clinton years. I know better. If something did get ugly, I'm pretty sure I know who's side CO Sheriffs will be on. Some folks take their oaths seriously.
Regardless of political views, these guys face violent criminals, make 2 am traffic stops, serve felony warrants, raid meth labs, etc. We refuse to punish LE collectively for the anti-2A beliefs of some, or even of their politically appointed chiefs, who could care less about properly equipped officers in many cases. We see this as no different than demanding that legislators do not punish all of society for the actions of criminals by taking away rights from the law abiding.
Because of this, we won't bend from our principles, and if anyone decides they need to not buy our products based on this stance, then we are fine with you not bending on yours. If you're selling any of your Colts over this, I might be interested.
Although we absolutely support the goals of the companies willing to stand up in this effort, we don't believe a policy like this is the best way to achieve those goals for us. Right now, we are engaged in the fight of our lives for 2A rights here in CO. Despite the high costs that moving would entail, we would actually be better off financially if we had just moved, rather than staying in the fight, based on the time, effort, and resources that we have poured into this battle, and are still pouring in. Simply running away wouldn't be our style, though, and would be a betrayal of our friends, neighbors, the free Citizens of CO, and would concede a defeat for gun rights across the country. So, we are fighting. We are in this fight on both the state and national levels. Do any of us really want to uproot our families, leave our homes, and head out of the state? Hell no. But we will.
For those of you who want to call it a corporate greed business decision, or that we are following a monetary necessity, we had every opportunity to cave and probably could have written whatever exemption language we wanted if we would have backed off and sold out CO Citizens to completely protect our ability to manufacture. They probably would have cut all kinds of deals to get us to back out and not make the jobs and economy part of the issue, and we didn't. They came to us prior to the vote on the day the exemption was presented on the floor and asked, basically, "Are we cool now?" To which, we responded NO, and that NO exemption or condition would keep us here, and that we didn't support that amendment, let alone the bill. We are standing by our principles, and if yours differ, that's fine, and we encourage you to stand by them, whatever they are.
For right now, we feel that efforts towards this end on our part would be more effective by looking at agency sales on a case-by-case basis behind the scenes rather than with a blanket policy shouted from the rooftops that punishes individual officers, and that our efforts are best directed where we are using them currently. We encourage others, whether friends or competitors, to do what they think is best, also, even if it differs from our position. This may evolve, but for right now, that is where we are at, and while we are always open to listening to reason, no boycotts or flaming will change our minds from doing what we feel is the right thing to do.
225 Responses to Magpul Provides "Complete Statement" on NY LEO Ban
If it wasn't already clear from my comments in the other post, I was comfortable with their position, and think all the wharrgarbl is just silly. Now I'm even more sure of my feelings.
I think this a good explanation of a practical, reasonable response by Magpul that I can sympathize with. But given the current climate in the gun community, many people aren't interested in dialectical arguments or nuanced positions… there is only the dichotomy of "WITH US" or "AGAINST US". It's the same black and white reasoning people apply to political beliefs – if you're pro-2A, you're not allowed to be pro-gay rights, pro-choice, pro-immigrant rights, pro-public education, etc. because those are "liberal" positions.
People have burned the eff out of RECOIL magazine and CheaperThanDirt for good reason. So are they willing to do the same to a "big name" like Magpul? The other Magpul thread is up to about 200 comments.
As one poster commented half-jokingly / half-seriously, "I want to see a vid of you melting your PMAGs."
Oh man…
Magpul doesn't pull any punches. Good on them. I like the corporate boycotts to punish state agencies, but some of the gun guys running around screaming for boycotts on everyone who doesn't match their strict viewpoint are ridiculous.
Plenty of LEOs are gun people. The shitty ones, generally, aren't.
If I made whips, I wouldn't sell them to those who would enslave me… or others.
I haven't seen my local Sheriff's Office trying to enslave me. Yet.
EXCELLENT. MagPul didn't give us a better explanation because it would be admitting they're cozying up to cops, but not us. Everyone has to make their own decision, but MagPul is dead to me.
Me too, a nice fast dance isn't going to sway me, Randy
Its when law enforcement OFFICIALS promote antigun measures that they become treasonous, traitorous, filthy, pigs. The officers who are pro-gun, agnostic, or anti-gun though subservient to the liberty of the citizen, must call out the rat pigs and support said citizenry.
good. then cancel your orders on ammo suppliers that have done business with LEOs.
I could use a couple of paces in the line.
Guns Save Life's reply to select points:
If a ban passes, these guys would be the ones hurt, and the politicians wouldn't care.
Well, it's Magpul's job to work alongside 100+ other companies to give them motivation to MAKE the politicians care. If the cops have no skin in the game, they are much less motivated to make their elected officials care. You can bet that if the cops were facing impending layoffs, they would make their elected political representatives feel the heat.
Are these the guys that we want to punish?
Again, we're not punishing them. We're motivating them.
they will simply be replaced with new faces that aren't gun guys, don't know any better, and may gladly stomp on your rights without a second thought if given the order.
That's a stretch. America has a long history of dealing with those who stomp on rights. There's the soap box, letter box, ballot box, jury box and the cartridge box for dealing with these sorts.
these guys face violent criminals, make 2 am traffic stops, serve felony warrants, raid meth labs, etc.
And we don't face home invaders, sexual predators, robbers, looters, car jackers, and miscellaneous other thugs? Thanks, Magpul, for your classist logic that our lives are worth less than Bob the police officer's.
Gun control is classist. And it sounds like you're supporting it.
Here in America, we've fought lots of battles over the years for everyone to enjoy equal rights. Women, blacks, so on and so forth.
Now we're fighting a battle so all Americans will be treated equally in their gun rights.
we won't bend from our principles
And we won't bend from ours. Civil rights aren't negotiable.
Right now, we are engaged in the fight of our lives for 2A rights here in CO.
And we're fighting alongside of you, not because of your company's headquarters being located there, but because it's the moral and ethical thing to do — supporting the fight for our civil rights, not for the rights of the cops to have a police state as you seem to be supporting.
And while we're right there fighting in California, I haven't seen one whit about Magpul helping us in Illinois. Instead, you people are putting in a fast lane for Chicago Police officers to get their PMAGs when the law-abiding good guys in Cook County are banned from owning such devices even though they face violent crime rates many times the rest of Illinois.
I haven't seen any news of Magpul helping in New York State, or New Jersey, or Delaware, or Rhode Island, or California.
But we are right there in Colorado.
Alongside you.
This may evolve, but for right now, that is where we are at, and while we are always open to listening to reason, no boycotts or flaming will change our minds from doing what we feel is the right thing to do
That's fine. We've tried reason and logic. You folks at Magpul have stuck with classist arguments, citing police officers lives are more valuable than Suzy Civilian and her little girls.
For that, you're no good to us anymore.
Shame on you, Magpul. Shame on you.
Great answers John!
BRAVO John, BRAVO. Couldn't have said it better!
I'm a NY resident. Prior to the BS that is the NY SAFE Act, "civilians" were not allowed to buy PMAGs (only pre-ban aluminum 30 rd mags). LEOs (and retired LEOs) could buy them all day long. Why is that? BECAUSE THEY HAVE A POWERFUL UNION!
AS you stated, LEOs need skin in the game to force their unions to negotiate from their position of strength FOR ALL residents of the state.
If resellers won't sell/ship PMAGs to NY residents without LEO credentials then they can just as easily not ship to NY at all. Again NOT a punishment, just motivation.
Thanks for taking the time to write out what I'm too lazy/verbose/stupid to write, but was pretty much thinking.
Any struggle like this entails blunt weapons – I'm speaking figuratively, of course. By their definition they are not very precise.
Magpul doesn't like the LEO Loophole blunt weapon? Fine, select and use another one. Don't have another one? Then you're against us.
Much of what Magpul is doing in Colorado is protecting the viability of their own business, which coincidentally supports the 2A. Sure they're gun guys, otherwise they wouldn't be making the kind of products they make.
As a company with a solid international reputation, they must do more than fight for 2A rights in Colorado. If they refuse, they can FOAD.
To me, supporting MagPul is little different from supporting Dianne Feinstein.
I couldn't agree more. Nobody's wanting to punish anyone for the idiocy we're seeing some states commit, punishment isn't the weapon. Leverage is the weapon. Regular people are feeling the squeeze so we're fighting back. The more people that feel the squeeze, the bigger the weapon/fight.
This is simple common sense, I'm a bit shocked more people aren't clearly seeing through the fluff.
All of your points are nullified by the fact that Magpul is not refusing to sell to non LE citizens. They are not making the assumption about non LE that you want them to make about LE- (some citizens may buy are mags just to destroy them vs. all cops wish to enslave us?)
There are far more of the approximately 700,000 LE that are pro 2ndA than there are against it. Just because there are a few larger cities chiefs (which tend to be far more liberal than the norm) that are opposed to our 2ndA rights it does not mean that most cops are that way.
The vast majority of police are working in small towns not the metropolis's that get news coverage. Police officers are just like you and I, in most of my experience cops are republicans and pro 2ndA. (from experience as one)
I think you probably want the officers that will be fighting for your rights to have the same tools that you do.
Not sure if I agree, but this statement was much clearer and more focused than the the one from Armalite.
I think MagPul has done a truly outstanding job as a corporate advocate for individual gun rights. So they don't participate in the NY Boycott — boo freakin' hoo. When did that become the only way a company can support us and protest unjust gun laws?
Exactly. And if everyone is so serious about this boycott thing, they nobody will be buying a gun from a major manufacturer ever again. There is a reason every name on the boycott list is a relatively small company. Large manufacturers can't afford to ignore an entire group of states LE/Military sales. It was a smart business decision that Magpul had to make. Besides, we'll all have moved on from this whole boycott thing in a few weeks
it's not about punishing LEOs… it's about LEO's and citizens having equal rights under the law, it's about not creating a class divide between those in power and the rest of us.
If all LEOs from NY state are treated the same way as any other citizens, sooner or later they would push for changes to the current legislation. I can see how Magpul does not want to punish select few LEOs, but if they instituted a blanket restriction, which is the same treatment the residents of NY get from their legislators, the whole SAFE Act nonsense would be either amended or repealed rather quickly.
My point is that a short "blanket ban" that would affect LEOs would in the end prove beneficial to all of us, because such ban would not have to last long. Police and other departments would feel our pain, so to speak, and they themselves would pressure politicians to change the law.
So a short-term pain would most likely result in long-term benefit to everybody. It's not pleasant, but I think it's necessary. Also, police departments from other states would take notice and perhaps wouldn't be so eager to push for / accept these restrictive laws.
Magpul doesn't make the class divide. Nor Cheaper the Dirt, nor Glock. Government does. Big difference.
but they, and we can fight against it… in this case with our wallets and our voices.
They seem to be choosing not to
Yeah Brian: come into my business and tell me who I can and can't sell to based on your own personal criteria. I'll tell you to kiss my a$$. Pick 10 businesses at random, stroll in, ask to speak to a manager, and tell them not to do business with LEOs any longer. I suspect you will get 10 "kiss my a$$es", in variable levels of politeness.
I'm not TELLING you do do anything (government hates competition)… I'm ASKING you to see it from a different perspective
Ok, fine Brian. Come into my business, or 10 of your choosing and ASK the manager/owner to stop serving LEOs. Lots of kiss my a$$es coming your way.
I understand their point, but they should make it clear that purchases by departments that support civilian disarmerment direct from the factory will be rejected. If individuals or departments that are pro-2A want to buy that's fine, but they need to set some restrictions to help close the LEO loophole.
This would be a good sensible position, IMO.
How very sad. They have gone from rockstars to a legitimate villain in the span of what, 3 days? Initially, I was with them. However, I believe they have just made a fatal mistake. Ironic how so much of their language seems similar to the gun grabbers. I wonder how much gear they think they'll sell to only LEOs and Government agencies?
I'll continue to buy from Magpul. And I'm just a regular, non-Government employed dork. Speak for yourself. And please post the video of you destroying all your Magpul stuff.
He said he was going to destroy them? Under what twisted, convoluted interpretation?
Ed, I have to agree. Unless they come up with some alternative to the LEO Loophole as a way to fight for the 2A, they don't deserve civilian business.
And now the movement will start to weed out those who are just part of the consumer band wagon and those consumers who are pro-2A.
This will reveal those who were all gung-ho until a company for which they own their products and love their products actually have a tough decision to make. Most of the companies on the ban-sales list were unique for the most part, they had a niche place in the market. So it was easy for people to salute them and say, "Good for you!"
Now that one of the most POPULAR companies has made a statement, those same people are stuttering in their stance.
I am a huge Magpul fan boy and I admit having to make the decision sucks. Its the first company on the list that actually effects me directly.
With that said, I cannot continue to purchase Magpul products as it would be giving in, even if the slightest, to what should be an all in or not at all subject.
Sad day.
To be clear, I'm not stuttering in my stance. While I think the sales-refusal policies are good for making a point, I have cynically questioned all along how much business many of the refusers actually do (did) with the LEOs they now refuse to sell to. For many of them, joining the boycott is literally a win-win, because they aren't costing themselves any sales they would have made anyway, and they're getting great cheerleading fanboy press while doing it.
It's easy to take a stand when it costs you nothing, and even easier when you actually stand to gain from doing it.
Is there a company making magazines that *has* endorsed a boycott? Sorry if I missed it. Otherwise, isn't Magpul essentially in the same position as every other magazine mfr? And if so, how do you choose which magazine(s) to buy? Or do you go without? I'm seriously confused.
Magpul may as well just save some money and stay in Colorado. What's the point in spending the money to move if they're just going to support tyranny from another state?
While I don't agree with their stance, I understand it and can respect it. It appears they don't see two different classes but wants to avoid doing harm to anyone. I think in the future, I will look to buy magazines with a company that supports a boycott
This really does make a lot of sense. It's relatively easy for Ronnie Barrett to enforce a ban on selling his relatively rare $8,000 rifles to certain states or cities. It's much harder to govern the sales of $10 (in better times) disposable, plastic items.
Even if you think Magpul is wrong in this instance, taken as a whole they have certainly done more to advance 2A interests than to harm them. So we can regret that they won't join the boycott efforts, but let's dial the invective back a bit, ok?
And I don't even like plastic mags – give me metal any day of the week. But I do like Magpul's AR furniture and replacement parts for my USGI mags.
It baffles me how many people overlook the *type* of manufacturers that have signed onto refuse sales. They're all niche manufacturers who cannot lose by doing so. Not one company that's done so stands to lose sales from it.
for all of you that are patting MAGPUL on the back for this stand then how do you feel about BCM putting its money where its mouth is and withdrawing from a bid to supply Milwaukee City Police with AR's because of the testimony of there Chief?
BCM took a stand to support gun rights, MAGPUL took a stand to supply those who would take away our rights with magazines. question. was the Storm Trooper as evil as Hitler or was it Hitler alone that bore the blame. remember. Hitler never once pulled the trigger during the war.
Hooray for Godwin's Law!
BTW, I agree with you, I just think the accuracy of that law is astounding.
most of the time i would agree that i got caught in that "law" but when it comes to basic disarmament …in this case law enforcement having what citizens cannot, then i think that the law might not apply.
either way though. you got me !!!! ;))
BCM, still has a 'Direct' individual LEO program and will still sell to individual LEO's in BAN States. I do Commend them for not only producing an amazing rifle, but also withdrawing from this contract. But technically they are still doing what Magpul is doing, so everyone here can hate them and refuse to buy there products.
i guess the irony of MAGPUL calling all hands on deck to help fight the bill in Colorado, threatening to leave that state if the law was passed and then doing this doesn't strike you as a bit of games playing on there part?
the code is cracked on making reliable mags and they're more a fashion statement then anything else. they won't miss me and i won't miss them.
You need to re-read BCM's statement. Their sales restriction includes individual LEOs.
22LR in stock at MidwayUSA.
Aguila Super Maximum Ammunition 22 Long Rifle 30 Grain Plated Lead Round Nose
$34.99 box of 500
Quantity Limit of 1
already sold out :p
That was a fast sellout. Hang in there, 22LR is slowly coming back to the online, and brick and mortar stores.
Didn't get any 30 grain Super Maximum — that was gone before they even had time to generate an email notification to me.
I did, however, score 500-round boxes of Aguila 38-grain HP and 40-grain RN. That most decidedly does not suck.
congrats on what you did get!
Thanks. I was starting to get seriously pissed at Midway because several scheduled availability dates came and went with no product being offered to me, and the dates just jumped weeks or months into the future with no explanation.
Being able to buy 1k rounds of supersonic 22LR at very fair prices definitely made up for any angst I'd been suffering.
On the other hand, I got in-stock notifications for two different Spike's AR15 uppers from Primary Arms this morning while I was driving to work… and they were both sold out by the time I pulled into the parking lot 10 minutes later. {sigh}
You work?
Obama phones get e-mail?
I agree; and we would have been right to sell to individual officers of the SS as long as they said they didn't personally want to gas anyone.
Seriously, what a crock. In a free state, government enjoys no rights that an individual doesn't have. Read Bastiat.
They make too much money off of LEOs – this is just a pile of propaganda to pander to the magpul fanboys that don't particularly believe in a free state.
Oh for Christ's sake. These are not Nazis.
Godwin's Law says you're an idiot.
The Law by Frédéric Bastiat [1850]
Ok I read Magpuls statement. I have seen exemptions from magazine bans written to include former or retired LEOs along with current. How is that going to be handled?
So they threaten to move over new laws that they will help LEO's enforce by still selling mags to them? Hypocrites.
Let's be clear here – Magpul's threat to pull out of Colorado was based on one factor: retooling and systems to add serial numbers to magazines, as would have been required.
They chose to turn that into a PR win by saying it was to fight for our rights. This is obvious because they have no intention of curbing sales to the very people who will be kicking our doors down, regardless of that door-kicker's personal feelings on the 2A.
I have to agree that their actions seem disingenuous.
+5 THIS is exactly what will happen, but we don't want to "punish" those who would be the ones sticking a gun in your face and confiscarting the contents of your safe do we? smh..
I'm smh trying to figure out the various maneuvers you guys have gone through to make your positions so convoluted. Are you going to boycott every retail gun shop in America because they sell firearms and ammo to LEO's? Where does this stop?
J&D, the real question is why is it so hard for you to understand that all people are asking for here is the same standard for everyone. Either we all can have it or none of us can. I prefer all but the bottom line is no one like a double standard.
I am stuck in Collectivistafornia and I can't tell you how many time LE comes in to the gun store, flashes their badge and proceeds to vocally go about ordering stuff that the rest of us in the store can't get. Most I've seen almost seem to enjoy rubbing salt in the wounds of us peons. Even prison guards here who don't carry for their job are given exceptions.
I spent two decades in Army Combat Arms and probably have more firearms experience than a majority of the cops…yet I am deemed unworthy of owning standard capacity mags while cops are worthy. What's up with that?
The way you keep going at this topic from different angles, picking different sides here and there and trying to get people to run in circles is worthy of the title troll. Is that what you are trying to do here? Get everyone to expend their energy responding to your various angles?
The bottom line here is that cops are citizens the same as the rest of us. They deserve absolutely nothing more (nor less) then everyone else. A case could be made for SWAT teams having additional hardware if they were used sparingly in the way that they were originally intended at their inception but as long as they continue to use them for routine things like manning DUI checkpoints like they do in my city then they shouldn't have anything more than the rest of us either.
And I'll say it again. Cops are the very people who enforce these unconstitutional laws. If they chose not to do so they could render these laws null and void. The fact that many choose not to do so but instead relish in exerting their perceived authority masquerading under the color of law over us the rest of us is best reason out there not to allow them to enjoy this unconstitutional double standard.
But then you probably know all of this and are enjoying the circular firing shad that you are helping to facilitate, no?
Red leg, my simple point is that retailers have no control over the law. Contact your legislators and vote them out of office. Magpul will be replaced by a100 other mag manufacturers willing to sell to LEO. Again, where does this end? A Contrarian view is not necessarily trolling. I run a business in would never stop serving LEOs. Crazy talk. And plenty of people heer agree with me. Call them trolls? Oh, the humanity. Business owners have to have tough skin.
Both Magpul and Armalite have a point about punishing individual officers but they both said it themselves: it's symbolic. The case-by-case bit at the end makes it sound like they might not sell to certain agencies that support gun control and if that's the case, kudos.
In the end I don't agree with their continuing to sell to LE but I'm not going to boycott them for it either. When I read this statement and they say it's not financially motivated I believe them. If it was all horse pucky they wouldn't have put so much effort writing it and then basically telling us to pack sand, in maybe the nicest way possible, if we don't like it.
Of course it's financially motivated. It's a business. When they reorganize as a 501(c)(3) I'll consider alternate viewpoints.
Point being, how much business do you think any the current .mil/LEO suppliers will have in 10 years if they're not selling to .gov? (Hint: less)
So they've got to piss off at least one segment of their customers: .mil/LEO vs. everyone else. Success will belong to those companies that (i) pick the right group, and (ii) don't piss off both groups.
Sorry Magpul, while I understand where your comIng from, in our fight, every little bit helps. Even if that means boycotting LEO sales in banned states. Looks like I'll seek Troy for my future magazine and stock upgrades.
Hilarious. It's not enough they've given their left nut, you want the right also.
Will, please post the video of you destroying your Magpul stuff. Running over with your vehicle should suffice.
Hey, I said I'd simply purchase Troy over Magpul in the future, because I agree with their philosophy more. I'm not destroying any pmags, I'm not masochistic.
But, but, what about your principles?
J&D well we are all so glad YOU are the authority how everyone should feel about this.
No authority here except over my own opinions. I'm not real big on other people telling me what to do. People tell me to "boycott these bastards", I'm more likely to look for a reason to buy from that business. I don't flow well with the crowd.
Lol I smell a troll. Destroying my already owned pmags would do no harm to anyone but me. Get your head outta your a$$.
J&D, given the choice, do you support companies that make contributions to Obama and Bloomberg, or those that support people inline with your ideals? Our only real voices in capitalism are our vote and our money. Magpul saw the positive publicity given to these companies for the LEO bans and knowingly and uselessly stood against it. They deserve the angst they get.
I don't live my life worrying about that $hit. Too complicated. I'm a simple guy. The system is way past the point where I can influence anything with my wallet. Politicians, Wall Street, the system, aren't listening to us anymore. I'm taking the Tyler Durden approach, at the end of Fight Club. I'm taking a comfortable seat and watching it burn. With no joy.
My opinion and wallet don't matter one iota to the current ruling class of politicians, Wall Street or the rest of the oligarchs. I will just pull up a comfortable chair and watch this beetch burn, ala the end of Fight Club. With no joy.
You can run over pmags with a truck and they will still work so that won't accomplish much!
Troy does LEO discounts. Who next?
Most firearms companies do. I don't mind that, (though I'm jealous). It's not like I have it out for all LEOs. I just think making the terrible SAFE act as inconvenient as possible to as many as possible is better that building complacency among a large group. Some LEO won't care about simply because it doesn't hinder them in any way if they can still attain everything they need. Many humans a very apathetic creatures. If something doesn't directly affect them, they don't care.
I am confused and maybe this was discussed before…..is magpul now staying put in CO?
Only if the gun control bills get shot down.
Their move is not the subject of this post. They said they'd leave if the bill was signed into law. They have not changed that statement. The bill has not yet been signed into law. Watch this space.
I still think they are planning on it, or at least posturing to…but what the majority of folks here are saying is that they may as well just stay put in Colorado if they are going to maintain this stance. We're not going to care what they do, or what their position is. This is a classic case of them trying to have their cake and eat it too. Not gonna work.
Third to last paragraph makes it sound like they arent "running" away. Honestly my gf is less wishy washy than magpul. Sounds like to me they were bluffing about moving and are going to stay put. Just my take on it.
They are checking on tax breaks in other states, mark my words. Strictly a financial decision, just like any other for-profit business.
"these guys face violent criminals, make 2 am traffic stops, serve felony warrants, raid meth labs, etc.
And we don't face home invaders, sexual predators, robbers, looters, car jackers, and miscellaneous other thugs? Thanks, Magpul, for your classist logic that our lives are worth less than Bob the police officer's."
Don't be foolish, I'm not saying it doesn't or can't happen but LEO's face violent criminals, felony warrants and 2am traffic stops ALOT more than an average citizen will ever face a REAL robbery or home invasion. Come on let's be smart about this! I support Magul for their stance and other companies for theirs. We are all on the same side and we need to focus our energy on the liberals that are fighting to take our rights away not fighting with each other!
What a windbag. I never expected Magpul to move, and it's not. It was all just PR and posturing. Lenin was right — capitalists will sell the rope used to hang them.
Yeah, the cynicist in me has always said Magpul will only move if they make more money in a new location. I'm sure they have been checking for tax abatement deals in several states as we speak.
LEO's do not make laws, but they do make a decision if they will enforce them or not.
Just like you and I, average Joe's – if our company asks us to do some unconstitutional, or otherwise shady – we have a decision to make.
Comply or leave (or get fired as a third option for refusing).
LEO's are not exempt from this.
LEO's are paid to enforce the laws, whether they are good or bad laws is irrelevant. That is their job. They have no obligation to serve and protect you – they have nothing that compels them to act in your best interest. This is not anti-cop talk, it is just the facts of the matter.
Claiming LEO's are the one's creating the laws is weak at best, at the end of the day they are the ones charged with enforcing those laws.
And to continue your train of thought if the cops refused to enforce those unconstitutional gun laws they would all be nullified and of no concern to us. Without cops to enforce their unconstitutional edicts bad laws and and bad lawmakers are impotent.
Unfortunately cops are all too happy to enforce unconstitutional laws, just ask SSG Haddad about that. He is facing felony charges and 35 years in prison over an inanimate metal box with a spring because some cops was determined to ENFORCE that unconstitutional law.
This is the reason why Magpul needs to get on board with the boycott.
I like the companies that boycott sales to government agencies in areas that have enacted these terrible laws.
But I have no problems with those that don't. Magpul sells relatively low cost items such as magazines. There's no way for them to know if their customer is a cop unless it is a large order from a police department.
I support magpul and wish them well. I don't want all gun companies to go out of business.
"NY: no sales of magazines holding over 7 rounds."
Yeah, that sounds really hard.
LEO are citizens, just like you and me. If we can't have certain hardware then they shouldn't be able to either. But the militarization of the police has blown all that out of the water for years.
As to "putting officers at risk", well the same applies to us as non-leo citizens and If not having certain hardware makes their job tougher then it's important to remember that Law Enforcement is a JOB, it's not a class or a caste, and nobody HAS to be an LEO.
Dale, we're MORE at risk. We are the first responders.
I don't have the luxury of showing up AFTER a home invasion with a squad in body armor armed with machine guns and hiding behind an armored personnel carrier.
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty."
Hey Magpul, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. All laws should be applied equally to ALL people regardless of class or job.
"If you're selling any of your Colts over this, I might be interested." Boom! Im not selling mine.
Police and normal citizens share the same cities, towns, and roads…why not the same rifles or magazines? Magpul refused a real opportunity to make difference on behalf of the Second Amendment….and off comes my Magpul AR grip.
I really hope that everyone who is now boycotting magpul "which is real easy to do when there are NO pmag's to be found" man's the FVCK UP and sticks to there ever so high & mighty principals and boycotts, COLT, GLOCK, S&W, BLACKHAWK, SUREFIRE, CCI/SPEER, FEDERAL, HK, FN, OAKLEY, NIKE, 5.11, WILEY X, WINCHESTER, TRIJICON, AIMPOINT, BRAVO COMPANY, DANIEL DEFENSE, and every other company who currently sell's to LEO's and /or federal agencies.
Yeah, thats what I thought…………
Exactly. Go through your safe, nightstand, gear bag, etc. and take an inventory of what you own. Now check to see how many of the companies are *still* selling to .gov. Pot meet kettle.
Edit: don't forget to put ammo on the list.
Almost forgot, we need to include Ford, Chevy & Chrysler to that list as well. I guess we should also throw all those evil 'anti-liberty' food establishments that give on-duty LEO's a discount on there lunch as well.
At this rate all of the FREEDOM LOVING americans, are going to be hemp wearing, vegan hippies carrying AK's and driving Hyundai's.
I will for future purchases from ANY companies like Magpul and Armalite that publicly flip the bird to equal rights for all.
As opposed to keeping their corporate mouth shut and simply continuing said sales?
I get what you're saying, John. Are you prepared to go all the way with JustAThought's list? Because it would seem more consistent to judge by actions than words. Or are ArmaLite and Magpul worse, for having made a corporate statement, than Federal or FNH?
So the companies who are willing to comment and have an honest dialogue on the issue get boycotted. But the huge corporations & manufacturers who completely ignore the issue, and figure that everyone is too stupid / ignorant to notice, get a pass?
Amazing thought process there!
"Or are ArmaLite and Magpul worse, for having made a corporate statement, than Federal or FNH?"
So very much this. You people are effectively crucifying them not for what they are doing, but for putting out a press release. Countless other companies are doing the exact same thing but are doing it quietly, hoping nobody notices. I don't see long, vitriolic, 200 comment threads about any of them.
Bravo Company is actually on the boycott list.
See, comment above. But the long and short is that Bravo still has a Direct LEO program and will still sell to LEO's in ban states.
I wonder how they managed to get added to the boycott list then?
Somebody with access to their policy page should inform the list manager of his erroneous info.
Thanks for the info.
We we're supposed to be able to know a company's future stance on politics at time of purchase?
We can't ask them to take a long look at how a change in policy might help save the 2A and keep our country free?
What a bunch of moronic tripe, where do we start with the idiocy of one post…. If you had taken the time to read up on what the boycott was about you would know it is about companies refusing to sell 'things' to LEOs where civilians can't purchase the same 'things'. (ie an ar15, standard capacity mags) most of those companies in your list don't sell things that are covered under that blanket. (neither do Ford, Chevy, Dodge or food companies to cover the next ludicrous post) Ammo, gear, lights, sights, optics…. CARS!!! not part of the boycott because we can still but what they can… oh yea and Bravo Company IS on that list of people not selling to LEOs. IF the time comes that they ban ammo, flashlights, optics, tactical pants, holsters, and the like THEN I could see the rest of those names being added.
Cars: A citizen cannot purchase a Crown Vic, Tahoe, Caprice etc. equipped in the same way law enforcement and federal agencies get them equipped "and these are under the hood things not lights and cages".
Handguns: S&W, GLOCK, FN, & HK are all still supplying NY & CA leo's with 15+ round magazines.
AMMO: Can we buy 5.7 FMJ "nope" give FNH a call ask really nice.
AND FOR THE LAST GOD DAMN TIME BCM WILL STILL SELL DIRECT TO LEO'S IN NY AND CALIFORNIA. yes the have shunned doing business with the departments and BCM to there credit just withdrew a bid on avery large contract. But can a leo still get one? Yes.
Food, lights, optics, holsters, etc. ARE RIDICULOUS AND THAT WAS MY POINT.
Everyone here with boycott this and boycott that is 99% full of 5h1t!
MY POINT IS WHERE DO WE DRAW THE LINE? Where does your B.S. Blustering end? And why is this just about NY? Where where everyones bandwagons when California fell?
This all bandwagon grandstanding there is NO WAY to back any of it up and if Magpul, DD, BCM, NOVESKE, etc. had stock and orders could be placed virtually all of the whiners he would be ordering, if for no other reason than to bend their fellow 2a supporters over on the price at a gun show or on gunbroker.
The fact that all the major firearm companies are still supplying departments with STANDARD capacity magazines and NONE OF YOU ARE BOYCOTTING THEM, tells me one thing.
None of you mind being bent over and fvcked, you just dont want them whispering sweet nothings in your ear while they do it!
You can kiss both sides of my ass…just like the firearm companies that peddle their wares into States that crap on their citizenry… There is a whole list of guns I'll look to buy now…those that actually favor the 2A; unlike the liberal doucheries you support.
There's a huge difference between selling to people and the government and what Magpul and ArmaLite did. Magpul and ArmaLite issued public statements telling law-abiding citizens to go to hell and that government employees are superior. I don't recall any other companies issues such statements about the superiority of government thugs.
Really? Where was that statement? I must have missed it. Feel free to sell your commie Pmags, Glocks, Sigs, S&Ws, and ammo on GunBroker.
It was in both Magpul posts and the ArmaLite post. Maybe take off the LEO blinders that prevents you from seeing that you're on the wrong side of those who believe in freedom and you might be able to read it.
Jeez, lighten up Toten. Accura8 thanks for your service.
I respect both the companies that choose to boycott, and those that work at the same ends by other means. I'm giving Magpul the benefit of the doubt they are doing what they can, the best they can. Lets not get into the circular firing squad so fast…we are all on the same team in the end.
Its their business, after all, and their decision – and you need more than one tool in the tool-box.
Now, CheaperthanDirt, and Dicks, thats another story…
Because you don't want to buy products from CTD and Dicks, but you want to buy from Magpul. Yup, totally changes things…
"I don't recall any other companies issues such statements about the superiority of government thugs."
And this is where many advocating a boycott of Magpul lose me. My father was a sheriff's reserve at one point, and my cousin is in ICE. Neither are close to being thugs. In fact, my cousin posts more anti-Obama stuff on Facebook than most people I know.
I've known too many LEO's and military to call them thugs. Most aren't anywhere close to it, and can't stand these idiotic gun laws. Lumping all LEO's into the thug category (or worse, Nazi's), besides being over the top hyperbole, is simply factually false.
Here in WA, there is a very outside chance we might end up with such ridicules laws (assault weapon ban and standard capacity magazine ban). While I appreciate the fact many of these manufacturers think boycotting law enforcement agencies is an effective way of fighting these laws (and are willing to put money where their mouth is like BCM), I doubt they are. But the puritanical, absolutist, "us vs them", "my way or the highway" attitude– that because someone respectfully disagrees that a particular method of fighting these asinine laws is effective… and may in fact cause more harm than good… they are a sellout, and giving the citizens the finger, and helping arm a bunch of thugs isn't going to win me over to your side. It just makes you look like a narrowminded bully incapable of seeing another person's point of view.
Especially when it's my LE family and friend's lives that could be negatively impacted.
Mikey, you're being very typical in letting your emotions cloud your judgement. For some absurd reason, people like to think that if someone is their friend or relative, it makes them above criticism. I, like you, have many relatives and friends who are military / LEO. However, unlike you, I won't lie to excuse their actions. It doesn't matter how much "anti-Obama stuff" your cousin posts on Facebook, by putting on a uniform he makes himself an ambassador for Obama's policies. Every day he puts on a uniform and goes out and points a gun at people, he's telling everyone "I support Obama's policies". If he wasn't, he wouldn't be a gun for hire for Obama – the same applies to every other government employee.
Again, if you bothered to read my previous post, you'd have known that I said the anger isn't even because of these companies selling to the enemy, it's because they (Magpul and ArmaLite) issued public statements sneering at the pathetic commoners and telling them that the military / LEO's deserve better gear with which to oppress the peasants.
Especially when it's my LE family and friend's lives that could be negatively impacted.
Nice to know that you're willing to sell out not only your own rights, but the rights of all Americans now and in the future because you've gotta protect the "good old boys".
To be clear Magpul and others banning sales to anti-2A states wouldn't be enough. What will bring change is our votes. 2014 cannot come soon enough!
This. +1
I'll be more interested in Magpul's response (if any) to the competition of polymer 3D prining, as that technology advances.
When will someone scan a Magpul PMAG and convert to 3D Printer file so everyone can print unlimited PMAG copies in their home office?
Looks like it's modeled after a USGI mag, but I'm sure a scanned PMAG would work just as well.
What a load of marketing tripe. Bottom line, Magpuls got a sweet LE contract they don't want to lose out on. Their stance has everything to do with business and nothing to do with the 2nd Anendment.
In the military, when one guy screwed the pooch everyone hits the deck and takes the heat. I empathize with the ethical LEOs position in all of this: yet they are a part of a collective, and when a member of the collective screws up they need to push Texas with their anti-gun colleagues. That's how bad guys in the mix get weeded out , when the good guys in the team do what it takes to reform the team.
I agree with MAGPUL's statement. Having spent the better part of my life in the Corps, having lost my only Son in the Corps (A-Stan) and having too many fellow Marines who are now LEO's than I can list, I do not want them left "untooled" simply because the lazy, complacent, remarkably mentally dull voters choose politicians who stand against the Second Amendment.
Let's keep in mind, the politicians are a reflection of society while LEO's are not a reflection of politicians!
Why are your retired fellow marines allowed to have better tools than us citizens?
Having a good old boy network is good to an extent, but this strays into the realm of abuse.
I am not talking about the "retired" ones; I am talking about those who served in the Corps and then, again as active Police Officers.
This isn't an argument for retired Marines or retired Police Officers, simply those who are currently, actively engaging the criminal elements of society, on our behalf.
Manufacturers boycotting Law Enforcement agencies is not something that is lost on me; I get it. But I also know hundreds of former Marines who are now serving as Police Officers and I can tell you not a single one supports any kind of ban on anything firearms related; quite the opposite.
The politicians in the states where these bans and crap legislation are taking place, are doing so at the behest of those who voted them into office in the first place. My point was, and is, that the only people to blame for these insane bits of "legislation" are the people who so joyfully cast their votes for these cretins.
The average Police Officer, however (many of whom have also served in combat zones as Marines, Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Coastguardsmen), are not part of the "political" sphere. They are simply men standing in the gap.
NO I am not drawing a distinction between civilians and Cops/Military. I am simply stating that the average Cop is more likely to encounter a dirt bag he is trying to protect the average citizen from then the average citizen is likely to encounter one.
If the Cop is not part of the political equation, do we really want to punish them for what is the sin of the voter – the "average citizen"?
The cop IS part of the political equation when he/she enforces these unconstitutional laws rather than just looking the other way.
Redleg; you are assuming they will enforce these laws. There is growing evidence that the Politicians may well find themselves without any teeth in these laws. I cannot name a single LEO (including some Federal), who is willing to do so. Many have told me they will turn in their credentials, first.
In any case, that is a fight for another day. Creating enemies where they don't yet exist is not the way to win the fight.
Do you really want to win this fight? Then go after those who created this mess to begin with;
The Voter!
J, I will admit I am a bit more jaded than others living in Southern Kalifornia. After serving in numerous different states I know for a fact that the cops in Southern Kalifornia are a special breed of contemptible. As I have stated elsewhere, I took numerous criminal justice classes in order to become better informed, all of which were taught by cops. Every one of them stated they were against citizens carrying firearms for self defense. According to them we "need to leave that to the professionals." Half went even further in that they would prefer none of us to have guns at all. They were open about wanting a monopoly on force.
I can understand your outlook if you have good cops where you live…hopefully you can understand mine since I don't?
And no, I can't move for at least three more years.
Redleg; Don't worry, this is not going to devolve into you vs me. I feel for you living in an area where the balance between Constitutionally balanced Cops vs the other, may by horribly skewed – and don't think I am some kind of idealist; I know there are bad apples in every crate.
It is simply that, from my personal experience, the Law Enforcement community is as incensed as we are. And BTW; if you were taking those Criminal Justice courses in one of our fine Institutions of Indoctrination; it isn't hard to imagine all "invited" to speak were of like mind…
We're on the same page, I'm trying to insure we don't "Cull" friendlies from the herd.
We need to remember; the politicians, installed by the voter, did this – not the LEO (generally)…
I understand completely J and I truly long for the day I can get the heck out of Collectivistafornia.
I know there are some wonderfully patriotic and constitution supporting cops and sheriffs out there in the "free states". Heck, even upper Nor Cal has them. Southern Cali is just another country altogether.
Unfortunately there are enough of the other kind even in red areas. I served in the 10th Mountain and know it is a conservative area yet they still arrested SSG Haddad for 5 empty mags. A patriotic constitution supporting cop would have looked the other way.
See that's the problem. The good guys should be pressuring the heck out of the jack boots in the group (yes that is an apt term for some)…but I don't see any evidence that they are.
Hopefully I'm wrong.
Redleg; It's going to be a fight for sure and expecially in areas like Sounthern Cal. The news out of Mass was encouraging though. On their own, the Legislators shot down a littany of new gun control "provisions".
If it can happen there, I suppose t can happen anywhere. We are just barely hanging on here in Maine as it is. The current Governor is a staunch conservative and pretty much "in your face" with the liberals. But even the Dem's (most of them), are not too interested in any new gun control legislation. We may slip past this latest "test"…
I hope you find your way out or your fellow "subjects", manage to find their way back!
It's good knowing you served!
Actually, LEOs are not even a reflection of the population.
On average, a LEO's criminal records/wrap sheet is longer than the average Joe's. Yes making a broad stroke here, but a factual one.
So your entire point is "thugs who kill for the government deserve the best equipment in order to murder more effectively". Classy.
Congratulations; you are the first person to call me a thug for having served in the Corps. You also managed to trip another line by suggesting my Son (KIA, A-Stan 14 August 2009), was also a thug and virtually every other Marine I ever served with. Nice going!
I am not talking about the "retired" ones; I am talking about those who served in the Corps and then, again as active Police Officers.
This isn't an argument for retired Marines or retired Police Officers, simply those who are currently, actively engaging the criminal elements of society, on our behalf.
Manufacturers boycotting Law Enforcement agencies is not something that is lost on me; I get it. But I also know hundreds of former Marines who are now serving as Police Officers and I can tell you not a single one supports any kind of ban on anything firearms related; quite the opposite.
The politicians in the states where these bans and crap legislation are taking place, are doing so at the behest of those who voted them into office in the first place. My point was, and is, that the only people to blame for these insane bits of "legislation" are the people who so joyfully cast their votes for these cretins.
The average Police Officer, however (many of whom have also served in combat zones as Marines, Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Coastguardsmen), are not part of the "political" sphere. They are simply men standing in the gap.
NO I am not drawing a distinction between civilians and Cops/Military. I am simply stating that the average Cop is more likely to encounter a dirt bag he is trying to protect the average citizen from then the average citizen is likely to encounter one.
If the Cop is not part of the political equation, do we really want to punish them for what is the sin of the voter – the "average citizen"?
J, anyone who chooses to murder anyon the government tells them to is a thug. There is no difference between "just following orders" to kill / beat / kidnap someone because a politician told you ro or because a mob boss or gang leader told you to. Yes, I get it, government employees (especially military) love to worship themselves and create these wonderful myths about how they're murdering unarmed people or political dissedents "to protect our freedoms", but anyone who's read the damn Constitutoin or pays attention to what you ACTUALLY are doing knows that's a load of BS.
You claim that "not a single one" supports bans, yet their entire job is to arrest / beat / murder anyone who doesn't do what poltiicians tell them to do. The very act of putting on a badge or other government issued uniform is a public statement that you support the agenda of your masters in government who are giving the orders.
The average Police Officer, however (many of whom have also served in combat zones as Marines, Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Coastguardsmen), are not part of the "political" sphere. They are simply men standing in the gap.
No, they're not. They are people who decide to harm anyone that they are told to, no questions asked. They also earn their income by forcefully taking it from the same people that they point their guns at and shout "DO AS I SAY OR I'LL MURDER YOU!!!"
I am simply stating that the average Cop is more likely to encounter a dirt bag he is trying to protect the average citizen from then the average citizen is likely to encounter one.
Yea, I really hate those "dirt bags" trying to get to work too. That's why the police spend 90+% of their time, manpower, and money on harassing people driving from point A to point B as opposed to actually doing something that takes effort and catching / stopping murderers, rapists, and thieves.
If the Cop is not part of the political equation, do we really want to punish them for what is the sin of the voter – the "average citizen"?
They are part of the political equation because they are the thugs enforcing whatever laws politicians tell them to. Why are you not able to understand the concept that the man pulling the trigger is just as guilty as the man who ordered him to pull the trigger?
J: I honor you for your service, and grieve for the loss of your son.
Toten, you are way over the line here, and now I am speaking as another vet. You dont even know me, or any of the cops and military here, and you dare to presume to judge us as murderers?
I swore an oath to defend my country and our freedom, and that includes your 1A right to say what ever you like – but you own your words here, and I find them despicable.
ROTLC, regardless of what words were in your oath, what you swore was an oath to do whatever politicians told you to do. If you killed anyone in the endless wars of aggression we've launched since the end of WWII, you are a murderer (those fighting actual Taliban members that were part of the 9/11 plot are not).
Yes, I own my words and I'll stand by them because I haven't sold my soul to corrupt politicians as you and others have. I'd be willing to die to defend my freedom, but unlike our military members, I wouldn't be willing to murder innocent people for a paycheck.
Toten; you obviously have some serious issues. I don't know who blew embers up your skirt but you are aiming your "guns" at the wrong targets. ROTLC and I and hundreds of thousands of others who swore our oath can actually read quite well and we know what, and before whom, we swore our oath.
You should read it sometime; you may be surprised to find out exactly what we swore to "support and defend" and it does not include blindly "following" anyone or their rogue orders. It does, however, demand person sacrifice and discipline – including when to spout off, and to know when an insult is simply an insult.
ROTLC; Thank you for the kind words and thank you for "standing in the gap" when it was your turn!
As I said, regardless of what the words said, your oath was the blindly obey the government. We've seen several times in the lifetime of Americans living today how eager military / LEO are to murder unarmed Americans at the order of the government. I'm sure as a military guy, you probably think Patton was a wonderful hero, yet you probably don't know that he led an attack on thousands of veterans peacefully protesting to get their bonuses early due to the economic hardships of the Great Depression.
Military people like you always claim "Oh, we aren't supposed to obey immoral / illegal orders!" yet you do it time after time and then claim "I was just following orders!" when someone calls you out on it. So don't give me some crap about how you wouldn't fight against us when your gun was used to oppress the American people the entire time you were in uniform, through fear and intimidation. (Hence why the Founding Fathers did NOT want a standing army – we'd have had a rebellion decades ago if we didn't have soldiers ready and willing to attack us for resisting the government). I've also heard far too many "noble" soldiers like yourself ranting about how only those in the military deserve to be able to vote, only the military should have guns, etc.
I'm pretty sure that even if Magpul decided not to sell to states that have them banned they would just buy them through a distributor any way.
Well no one claimed standing behind a policy like that wouldn't involve a little work in punishing those distributors who violate the policy.
Fine. At least then the distributor would be the non conforming party, not MAGPUL.
I would LOVE to see Magazine manufacturers start printing "Not For Law Enforcement Use" and/or "For Civilian Use Only" on all their magazines.
Just for fun.
How about "FOR COLORADO USE ONLY", destined to become collectors' items.
J is spot on. (Much respect sent in your direction) Having worked for a staunch Conservative for the last twenty years, I have seen company profits sent to good causes numerous times. You can sometimes help a cause way, way more by using your companies blood, sweat and profits to further it. You help no one, especially your employees, by going out of business. Talk and condemnations are cheap. Staying in the fight usually never is.
Your company makes good, solid products. That is why they are sought after. They are sought after by police, LE, and other enforcement agencies across the country. LEO's want your product because they know it is reliable and they trust it. IF you stop selling to them, you will have them screaming to purchase your products. Who are they going to be mad at? Politicians! They are going to start pushing back against the corrupt politicians that put these laws on the books. As long as they can still readily get your product, even ahead of the LONG wait that everyone else is seeing, why would they care? Deny them a product and you have leverage from the inside. This is what the other companies are doing. You are not endangering any LEO for denying them purchasing of your product. They have PLENTY of steel mags. Would they prefer yours? Sure… But to say that you are doing this "For the good of the LEO's" is just BS.
The root of all evil is government (or banking cartel) created money and the institution of government itself. We should go back to 100% barter (that might include a currency approved by, created, and controlled by the people in the marketplace) and individual/small family group interactions with the rest of society. Practicable social norms and cultural values will eventually become informally established by the common people based on what works for society.
dont worry, those problems will be fixed.
that which cannot go on forever, simply wont…
It's not about you being right – you are – but about the pain, death and suffering that ensues in the meantime.
I agree and I pray that im wrong.
It will be the single, greatest event in human history.
A orgy of bloodshed, starvation, disease, and privation that will be unparalleled in chaos since the fall of Rome. Instead of bringing Europe into chaos, it will bring the world.
If Magpul or Armalite selling to the individual police officer offends someone, can I get an answer to whether that boycott also extends to Fruit of the Loom and Krispy Kreme? Cops buy them, too.
Creating a issue about who does what to support gun rights only helps the haters. Don't be one. It's divisive, unproductive, and you look like your grasping at straws.
Take a long look at a vendor website selling to LEO's and tell me you have never purchased any of their gear, and are willing to part with it – because it's exactly the same thing. Surefire? Benchmade? Danner? Who's make laptop is in your local PD cruisers? Take that thought to all the other gear cops use, pile it up in the backyard, and burn it all? Hey, cops live in houses, buy lumber, too. Burn the house down, you don't want to support them.
At one time I thought LEO/MIL was a recommendation of higher quality and superior performance under harsh conditions. I guess having second tier gear is now the standard, just to make a political statement. And brow beating others to do the same? Isn't that exactly what we are telling Feindstein and Co.? "You ain't the Boss of me?"
Well, haters, you need to think about not stirring up a ban that helps the banners. It's lame. You are wrong. It's not the time and place. And, it's not your business under attack, either.
Because last I heard, Fruit of the Loom and Krispy Kreme are not prohibited from being purchased by the citizens or "banned". Big difference and your point is mute.
Yes, I know. Stupid iPhone spellcheck….
Mark, your example has absolutely zero bearing on this discussion because neither a Fruit of the Loom T-shirt nor a Krispy Kreme donut can be used to oppress me or take my life.
Guns and their accessories on the other hand are the very tools used by thugs to intimidate, threaten and coerce people into compliance and for those who stand up to the coercion…they are the tools used to take your life if you will not comply.
Great, now I hate Magpul. Effin a. Its not like I can buy any of their mags anyways. I have 14 pmags along with a moe edition S&W M&P15. Kind of makes me sick. You disgust me Magpul.
agree entirely.
THANK YOU, MagPul, for everything.
now, PLEASE MOVE THE FUCK OUT OF COLORADO (if 1224 becomes law).
you've still got my biz, esp when you bring the 15-rounders to market.
Every arms & accessories manufacturer has financial incentive to join the boycott. If these gun control laws pass, and continue to gain strength over time, the civilian market will be destroyed. We would not have as many companies as we have now if it wasn't for the 2nd amendment & a strong civilian market. We would not have innovative companies starting from humble beginnings. We would have a handful of large government contractors.
Do they have something to loose short term? Yes. Do they have more to loose long term? I say yes.
magpul is right on this.
PLEASE, for the love of god, DO MOVE AWAY if the std cap ban becomes law.
will continue to have my biz as a 15 round magpul will still be better than the other crap out there.
"Regardless of political views, these guys face violent criminals, make 2 am traffic stops, serve felony warrants, raid meth labs, etc. We refuse to punish LE collectively for the anti-2A beliefs of some…"
I have a serious problem with this statement, Magpul. I work in Fire/EMS but my rights, AND SAFETY, seem to take a backseat while LEOs get a pass. The people in 2 am accidents aren't pulled to safety by LEOs. Those midnight house fires aren't extinguished by people in squad cars. EMS personnel encounter more drug addicts, ODs and even domestic violence cases than LEOs. Why, because people don't call LEOs when they need a doctor. Many of those meth labs LEOs heroically go into are cleared by Fire/HazMat BEFORE LEOs are even allowed entry.
My uniform may be bunker gear or a Tyvek suit, but like a LEO my need to protect myself does not end when I disrobe for the night. While I do not carry a
weapon while on duty, I still encounter the same people off duty as LEOs; people I've helped put in jail for arson, drugs, domestic violence etc…
In states like New York, emergency services personnel are being stripped of their rights and abilities for self-preservation. You say you're not endorsing the punishment of LEOs for the actions of a few, but you are writing the rest of us off.
My job may be saving others lives, but I still have the need to save my own. If you continue to sell to LEOs, particularly those in agencies that support the
anti-2nd Amendment movement, nothing will change. The politicians and chiefs won't change their opinion as long as their officers still receive preferential treatment. You say you don't want to harm the LEOs who may support the 2nd Amendment. What about the rest of us?
All I want is a little equality, and it's a pity you're siding with those who are stripping it away.
Not for anything but I have a problem with any "first responder" not being armed anyway.
Again; anyone standing in the gap left gaping by the average civilian should not be abandoned there with lesser equipment simply because the political establishment (which exists by a vote of the people), chooses to disregard the Constitution – and my concern extends to you. If I had my way, anyone responding to any event that had the potential to place them at risk by dirt bags, would be armed!
Many of us started carrying batons and/or spray on
EMS runs a long time ago. A few do carry firearms, especially those in more rural areas. I've worked with a few purists that believe first responders should not be armed at all, but their tune changes quickly after that first run with
an addict on PCP or bath salts.
It's okay for these companies to honor LEOs. They do
have a difficult job. But firefighters and EMS have to deal with the same sh*t, often on the same calls as LE. We still have to go to the same court rooms and testify against the same people. I wish it weren't so but that maltese cross on my shirt is as big a target as any badge.
ChuckN, I feel for you. I have a bunch of friends that are Paramedics and EMTs and they respond to 90% of the calls in my area, they do far more than cops do. The company is private and not unionized like the cops either and they make a mere fraction of what the boys in blue do while doing a hell of a lot more work…all the while being threatened by gang bangers and crack heads.
My hat is off to you.
Chuck N; I have friends who are first responders as well and again, I am not happy that they (you) are expected to do the kind of job you do and face the potential threats you must each day, without the right "gear".
I doesn't take a degree in criminology to figure out you folks are just as at risk, as the average cop.
It has always mystified me…
So Magpul won't sell to gov't agencies that ban the magazines from us regular citizens. They may sell to individual police officers who are acting as an individual not as an agent of the state. So if the officer uses said magazine on the job, aren't they acting as a straw purchaser for the state? Would the officer get in legal trouble for acting as a straw purchaser for his neighbor? Doggone those pesky moral issues!!!
Yea that's why rescue is alway staging somewhere down the street or around the corner until LEO secures the scene. I have NEVER gone to a domestic violence situation where EMS is already on scene handling it. Give me a break. Stop lying about aspects of your job, you don't put people in jail cops do.
Oh, I know! Those bastards who want to take our guns, they all wear pants. And this greedy and evil Magpul CEO also wears pants. Our work is cut out for us, ladies and gentlemen:
Oh and did you know that pants were invented in China? This is true! The Chinese invented pants for the purpose of horseback-riding. Until pants were brought to Europe by the Huns and other migrating people, our ancestors knew no pants!
Do you want to bow to China like Obama does? Is it not enough that our manufacturing went there already? Do you want our dignity to go there as well?
Oh yea!
Let us boycott stupid attempts at humor on a serious subject.
lol swing……annnd a miss…
Yes. I am very sorry. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I realize this in an important issue and not at all a joking matter. After all, it does say in the Constitution that "Congress shall allow no humor, ridicule or satire when it comes to a serious subject that causes butthurt."
If you've noticed, most of the pro-2nd LEO-ban manufacturer statements have been short and to the point…much like the wording of the 2nd Amendment itself.
This one was rather long and wordy to build the position. red flag.
Those of you stuck with Magpul stuff, don't burn it or sell it. (They'd probably love it, you might poison yourself with the fumes.) Show your contempt by doing this instead:
1. Sand off the Magpul logo and anything that says "Made by Magpul"
2. Put a weatherproof sticker on it with your favorite patriotic slogan on it. Like: "…it is right of the people to alter or abolish it.", "…it is their right, it is their duty to throw off such government.", (Hint: These are the rights mentioned in the 9th Amendment), or perhaps "Molon Labe", etc.
If Magpul doesn't like it, tell those prostitutes to FOAD. You paid for it, you do what you like with it.
What? That's not fair calling them prostitutes? Well, prostitutes don't care who they sell to either as long as they get paid. There's two kinds of capitalism:
1. Honest, Honorable Capitalism
2. Mercenary Capitalism (The kind that doesn't care who it steps on and will do anything illegal or otherwise for money and power.)
It's the excesses of the latter coupled with the go-along-to-get-along "Everybody Sells Out" mentality that's gotten us to this deplorable state of affairs. It's not gonna get us outta it either.
It's not called "Taking a Stand" unless it actually COSTS you something to take that stand. For those that say that the companies that actually HAVE taken a stand are too small to matter, you should keep in mind that not everybody is motivated purely by financial goals.
Most people don't seem to understand that we've gone beyond just fighting for rights, we've gone straight to a war for our very right to be alive. When they attempt to take ONE Unalienable Right, they are likely after them all. Patrick Henry WARNED us about stuff like that.
I've gotten sick and tired of seeing "Wrong House Raids", "Family pet killed and family terrorized", etc. They ARE NOT a GOOD COP if they TURN A BLIND EYE.
Sand off the logo? That's certainly… consistent. I think I like the idea! My good, sir, I intend to do that with my car instead. I'll sand off the Mercedes logo, and cover the spot with a weatherproof sticker with a patriotic slogan on it. Lo and behold, I am now driving an American car! Suck it, Germany, suddenly you are not getting a single red cent out of me! No compromises!
So Magpul is doubling down on the "some animals are more equal than others" statement. Screw them, I hope they burn for this bullshit.
Sadly too many gun owners (even on TTAG) spend so much time worshiping government employees that they see this as a good thing that the men in black masks will still be given top notch equipment for when they smash down your door to shoot your pets and family.
I'm not seeing instances of TTAG "worshipping government employees," but if that is your perspective, go for it.
Don't feed the trolls, A81.
I didn't say that the editors did, I said "gun owners on TTAG" do. You're fully capable of reading through the comments and seeing how many self-loathing gun owners here think the military / police should have better weapons with which to use against us – all because they were brainwashed into "the men in black masks with guns are there to help us!" when they were kids.
Regarding the "men in black masks" that you refer to above I think that Col Jeff Cooper said it best when he penned the following:
"I have been criticized by referring to our federal masked men as "ninja" … Let us reflect upon the fact that a man who covers his face shows reason to be ashamed of what he is doing. A man who takes it upon himself to shed blood while concealing his identity is a revolting perversion of the warrior ethic. It has long been my conviction that a masked man with a gun is a target. I see no reason to change that view." – Col Jeff Cooper
The man with the mask is NOT your friend.
In a strange twist it seems pro 2a supporters are becoming divided because of this issue. Just what we need…
For the cop worshipers out there, if a cop enforces an unconstitutional law he is NOT "protecting and serving" us. He is aligning himself with the enemies of freedom and identifying him/herself as being a thug who happens to have government sanction to abuse the people.
There are far more out there who would throw you in a cell for carrying without state sanction or for having a magazine which holds more than the allowed number. When cops stop enforcing those laws I'll be the first one to stand up and defend them…but based on the news stories of late that is most definitely NOT the case.
Go ahead and keeping supporting those who would jail you for exercising your natural rights and see how that works out for you..
Have any of you calling for boycots of Magpul products or expressing disgust with their posistion bought a Ruger since 1994?
If so you should think about these quotes.
* "No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun."
* "I never meant for simple civilians to have my 20 or 30 round magazines or my folding stock."
* "I see nothing wrong with waiting periods."
Bill Ruger Sr.
…Point is, there is more than enough confusion and stupidity to go around. Apparently even Ronald Reagan had a problem with AR's, high cap mag's and the like.
We are not living in a perfect or even a flat world. There are strange alliances that have been drawn up over the years and even stranger beliefs from our "heroes".
We don't want to find ourselves in the unenviable position of self-loathing (like the lefties) simply to "win". What is that old axiom? "Biting your nose to spite your face"..
This is not a fight against Law Enforcement Officers – or at least should not be. Yes; some are corrupt, but then again so are some Priests, what's the point? One thing we can be sure of is that once in the political system, nearly all politicians are sullied. Another thing that is true is that ALL politicians are there because the VOTERS put them there.
While this latest fight is aggravating, It is killing me to see folks so willing to cull LEO's and individual Military members – the vast majority of whom are unequivocal Second Amendment supporters, from the herd.
This is not "Us vs Them" from one side alone. This is rapidly deteriorating into an "Us vs Them" from this side of the aisle as well! The average Cop is not, "Them", he is in fact, "Us". Let's not throw them to the wolves because the average citizen didn't have the sense to put righteous Politicians in office.
Bill Ruger is dead and his company now sells standard capacity magazines directly to consumers by mail in places where they are legal to own.
We live in a capitalist society and people are free to spend their money with whoever, for what ever reasons they like. That said this boycott will have no real impact, imo. First, you would have to have every major firearm and firearm accessory manufacturer come one board. Let's face it, that's just not going to happen. Too many of these companies, ie Colt, S&W, Glock, Beretta, SigSauer,Springfield, Remington and most the major ammo makers have huge contracts with police and government agencies in these states. It's a good idea in theory but has no practical application. Being this is a capitalist society, all it takes is one company looking to make monster money to come in and fill the void left by the boycotting companies, and that will happen! Second, even if they all the manufactures stuck to their guns and boycotted these agencies, the agencies will just get them from the US government since these boycotts have excluded federal agencies from being on the no sell list.
I think people are projecting their frustrations with the gun grabbers onto the wrong individuals and companies. These companies that have drawn the ire of so many here contribute large amounts of money to the NRA and the ILA fund as well as other SA rights groups. This money is being used to stop the rights violators the way they need to be stopped, through legislation and litigation. This talk of "you are either with us or against us" is just another way of saying you have to do this my way or GTFO. That's more divisive and destructive than helpful to OUR cause.
As I've already stated, you are free to do with your money what you want but will you seriously boycott every company that doesn't come on board? If so, I hope you have most of the firearms and ammo that you've ever wanted because your available and eligible list is about to get extremely small, if not nonexistent. Best wishes guys, keep your heads on a swivel cause were in a cock fight!
Total BS job by Magpul. Love their products (own A LOT) but will not buy another.
Wow–some really pathetic responses here. Apparently many of you haven't a clue to the severity of what is happening.
You people make me sick.
When the sheriffs who stand up and pledge to defend the constitution say they'll stay in the fight, you applaud them.
But apparently you want them to do it with their bare hands?
Magpul has the right idea. IGNORE the impeding, focus on the now. they're flooding the market, and making any attempts at a ban impossible to enforce.
I'll buy anybodies PMAGS at MSRP though.
When the sheriffs who stand up and pledge to defend the constitution say they'll stay in the fight, you applaud them.
But apparently you want them to do it with their bare hands?
No, I want them to do it by refusing to work for the government. Only be quitting will they no longer be part of our oppressors.
Wandering into circular firing squad territory with this boycott stuff….
All you die-hard my-way-or-the-highway folks feel free to send me all your PMags. Meanwhile, I'll support MagPul in any way I can.
Meanwhile, I'll support MagPul in any way I can.
And Magpul is hard at work supporting those who will be taking away your guns at the point of the Magpul equipped rifle.
Speaking as someone who is on board with your boycott…. I must say that your PaulBot like ramblings in this thread have been extremely offensive. You need to rethink you rhetoric unless your goal is to make potential allies into enemies. Seriously, anyone reading this who is on the fence about 2A rights would be running into the camp of the gun grabbers. You are causing more damage than any 5 lefties.
All of you people worshiping Magpul for this really are naive and stupid and you do not deserve to own a firearm, let alone Magpul magazines. Really. You are really that stupid. Judging from the responses so far, most of you have no idea what is going on in this country. Nor are you familiar with history, either of the world, or of US history. And you are too lazy to think for yourself, or get off your computers and do something positive for the country. In fact, I bet almost anything most of you work in the government, or are dependent on government checks to sustain you. Well guess what geniuses, someday you can rest well at night knowing that the police which disarmed you will have those super duper plastic magazines which you couldn't buy from your favorite company, Magpul. Personally, I hope each and every one of you enjoys your self created hell, but my guess is someday when it is too late, you will realize that hell isn't such a great place to be and gee, someone should have done something about this. None of you treacherous cowards deserve to live in this country. Now go back to worshiping the "brave" statements of Magpul and convincing yourselves that the lives of police are worth much more than your own. You deserve what you worship.
Farley: got any ideas to fix the problem? Don't give me problems, give me solutions.
keep telling me what i do and dont deserve. ill just laugh at you while stroking my magpul magazines.
as us pro-gunners say: come and get them
Why are police doing 2am traffic stops with AR 15 rifles and PMAGS? Is this a police state already? Are the police who support us having PMAGs in NY going to turn a blind eye when a lowly "civilian" is caught with one? Or arrest them like the Army veteran who had 5 AR 15 mags?
Magpul + 1,000,000,000 Kickin ass and takin names! F$$$ all the Us vs. them folks, they plain just dont get it.
-A Patriot Citizen of the great state of Colorado
"These are the times that try men's souls" (Thomas Paine, December 1776).
All the acrimony, conflict, emotion, and tension expressed in the comments on this Magpul boycott issue provide us with a small taste of what Paine was describing. The cost of standing on principle is increasing as the pressure of tyranny ratchets up all around us.
During the ramp-up to the shooting part of the Revolution, this same kind of struggle was going on. Big business adhered to the King. Tory businesses tried to play to all sides. Patriot businesses suffered with the patriots. It was a sorting out process, during which the patriots learned the true depth of their own convictions regarding liberty; they also learned who their true friends were.
We have entered into our own sorting time. We are learning the price we are personally willing to place on liberty; and we're beginning to learn who our true friends are. We will gain some and lose some, but when the shooting starts, if it is forced upon us, we will at least have gained confidence in those who stand with us.
Boycotting the bigger boys like Magpul, Colt, Ruger, etc. is hard, but it must be done. It may cost us more to deal with the smaller guys who have chosen to stand firmly the side of the Second Amendment, but what price are you willing to pay for liberty? This is just the beginning; the personal cost is only going to go much higher.
The rest of Tom Paine's statement should give us motivation to carry on:
"The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman."
Keep pressing on!!
Everyone here equating Magpul and pro-2nd amendment LEO's to "Lenin" and "Hitler" should all go join together in a circular firing squad you mindless, emoting twits!
Well, it does look like Magpul decided that the almighty dollar from those that go against the 2nd Amendment is more important than taking a stand against them. Therefore I will no longer be purchasing any item from them and would rather spend my money at a company that is WITH US…. and no matter how you sugar coat it you sold out.
I believe that your prior statements were just to appease those that wanted to know what your stance was and I was happy at that time to see you stood for the 2nd Amendment, but this one makes me realize that you were in effect just blowing smoke to cover your real intentions.
I hope that anyone that has current orders with your company cancels them and takes their business elsewhere and you can continue selling to those that would infringe on OUR rights.
Why is everyone disrespecting MagPul and no other firearm related company? I bet everyone here carries a S&W, Springfield, Glock, Kimber, or some other big-name manufacturer, but are you going to stop doing so and boycott them because they too are continuing to sell to LEO agencies and states that have infringed on our rights? Are you going to "burn" your $2000 Colt rifle or your $500 Glock? We need to apply this attitude to all companies across the board if we are going to apply it to one.
Personally, I believe these companies should just cease ALL sales to anyone and everyone in states that have prohibited the EMPLOYERS from owning and/or carrying their products. This way there is no confusion, and a little "I support the Second Amendment" box on purchase forms becomes obsolete.
I live in Kentucky, the state that has the least amount of gun laws in America. Here our right to keep and BEAR arms is strongly protected, by law and our Constitution. I am also a LEO in Kentucky, and I believe in equal rights for all, regardless of occupation. Many LEOs seem to forget that we are the employees of the PEOPLE, not the government! The PEOPLE are the employers of ALL government agents and representatives. I am glad I live in a state that allows my fellow citizens to carry their firearms unrestricted without a license, and that also allows them to possess any weapon they deem proper. The only places a citizen cannot carry openly in Kentucky are K-12 schools, inside detention facilities and inside COJ facilities. All other government buildings MUST allow carry and are prohibited by law from instituting ANY type of firearm legislation.
People, MOVE to a free state such as Kentucky! Get away from these oppressive states, and gather with like minded individuals and representatives that respect what WE want! We must come together in these times, because soon we will be taking back what has been taken, and it will NOT be easy! Soon these PMags will be needed, because I don't see the government rescinding the legislation that has infringed on our rights and liberties over the past sixty years.
It is time to UNITE, not DIVIDE!
Beretta has threatened to leave MA. if more gun restrictions are enacted. That's the type of company that I choose to support. Same goes for LaRue and the others that have openly denounced tyranny. Magpul openly announced that they now support the tyrannical machine. That said, I personally, can not in good conscience, support them by buying their products any longer. Any one that follows an unconstitutional order or gives support to someone that does is a traitor, period. There is no in between. I swore an oath that is not negotiable.
Why should LEO be anymore entitled to protect themselves than the average citizen. I say if 7 or 10 rounds is good enough for the people its good enough for LEO. If Magpul is going to sell to banned states they should only sell what is available to citizens. The same goes for any manufacturer.
I live in Aurora, Colorado, and submitted a comment about an article published in The Denver Post Opinion section titled, "Tosches: Go ahead, Magpul. Move. Wyoming seems nice." It was included in The Denver Post online forum, on Feb25, 2013, and provides a take on why Magpul must leave Colorado. Comments from readers were very favorable. This is the comment:
The Denver Post consistently promotes a philosophy that the State of Colorado does not need more revenue, and lower rates of unemployment. Let companies that support our economy go elsewhere, they say.
This editorial effectively reinforces their mantra. Essentially, the article tells a business (Magpul Industries) to leave the state. If House Bill 13-1224, limiting magazine capacity, is signed into law that business MUST leave Colorado. Its exit will surely receive a significant cry of triumph from The Denver Post.
In order to remain in business, Magpul must bend to the fate of economics. Members of the shooting sports community, all over the world, are now seeing Colorado as unfriendly to gun owners, and that sentiment will increase as Colorado moves forward with proposed firearms restrictions. A boycott of firearm related products, with any connection to the State of Colorado, is a foregone conclusion. Magpul will be severely affected and relocating will be imperative for survival.
An example of a similar fate resulting from the ire of firearm purchasers is the sale of Smith and Wesson, in 2001. Smith and Wesson was an iconic brand for 150 years, and in May of 2000 they signed an agreement with the Clinton administration to restrict the way they sold firearms. When the gun buying public became aware of the agreement, they nearly drove the company out of business. One year later, the company, which had been purchased for $112 million just a few years earlier, was sold for $15 million and the assumption of $30 million worth of debts. The power of a boycott can be most impressive.
This article flounders about with seemingly no place to go, and states, "Magpul says it employees more than 200 people in its Erie plant, and claims it will spend about $85 million this year in Colorado. By the way of comparison, Denver entrepreneur Philip Anschutz spent $86 million last Tuesday on a haircut and a new tie. And at lunch on Thursday, Todd Helton spent $87 million on merlot."
On a positive note, after Bill 13-1224 is signed into law by Governor Hickenlooper, Anschutz will still be spending $86 million on a haircut and a new tie, with participation by Helton when spending $87 million on merlot. On the negative side of the ledger, Magpul will not be in Colorado to employ 200 people and spend at least $85 million per year to support other Colorado businesses that also employ residents of this State.
They are playing both sides. I'm LE, and they are quietly offering a special LE deal on 10 Pmags per officer. This is going on all over. Magpul is in it for Magpul, nothing more than that. Smell the coffee.
Here is the deal. I don't like the idea of "segregating" the community in any way at all. Why should LEO's be ANY different than ANY OTHER CITIZEN! My primary interest is that companies choose to treat ALL OF THEIR CUSTOMERS EQUALLY! So if a state outlaws a specific item then that item should just plain not be available in that state, REGARDLESS OF WHOM IT IS THAT WANTS TO PURCHASE IT! The company isn't punishing anybody, the STATE did. I'm sick of people being treated differently based on their "title" or "position". All government personal are simply PUBLIC EMPLOYEES, paid with PUBLIC TAX MONEY! They are NO better and NO worse than any other citizen, and they should be held equally accountable to the laws that are passed regardless of their position or title. No "special exceptions" should be made for any individual. I would hope that Magpul would have the fortitude and integrity to only associate with customers, distributors, and retailers that are willing to treat every citizen equally. Anything less is just plain hypocrisy.
That's probably one of the best stated, most all encompassing and yet still very concise responses I have seen on this subject to date. Nicely written!
Exactly. And their latest stance is that they will soon sell to LEO on a "Pinky Promise". So when they kick in our doors I guess we hold the "Pinky Promise" card and we pull it from our sleeve then they drop to a low capacity mag.
Please Magpul, rethink your position. Honorable people choose a side, they do not play in the middle of the road or pick the "lesser of two evils" in a lame attempt to placate both sides.
Honor is hard to the core and makes the hard stand/choice. I swore an oath to the Constitution like many in Magpul, the 2nd amendment's "shall not be infringed" leaves a truly honorable man without any doubt to its meaning or intent. To say otherwise is one searching for an excuse in order to make a dishonorable decision.
No where does it allow for a two-tier class of firearm ownership based on badge elitism.
I love Magpul but I will never purchase a thing from them again until they realize that they must make a stand with "We the People".
Does Magpul allow law abiding citizens to click "I promise … " to get the otherwise same banned items, as they are conveniently offering to police?
The few police that have no care for honor will click the "promise" button just as fast has the one's that do…. so just as many police only guns are sold in the end! Smoke & Mirrors, The Illusionist Prestige!
Magpul found a nice little way to not impact their sales/profit which doesn't sound too honorable to me.


text: Today is the premiere of a movie set in the Dragon Age universe. You can already order Dragon Age: Dawn of the Seeker in the stores such as Amazon (you can find a 56% discount there). The movie tells the story of Cassandra, a young Seeker of Truth, who will need to defeat the blood mages and clear her name. In addition, a new movie clip.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
: Short Fiction
James, Henry: John Delavoy, LIT, v.1, 18 January 2009.
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James, Henry: John Delavoy, LIT, v.1, 18 January 2009.
Henry James (18431916)
John Delavoy (1900)
June Hee Chungs summary:
The key conflict in John Delavoy (1898) is a popular magazine editors choice to reject an unnamed narrators critical review of a recently deceased immense novelist, John Delavoy , and instead to commemorate his life with a sketched picture and a biographical blurb by the deceased writers sister. Observing that the text serves just to write round and round that portrait, the narrator, turning an old proverb, grumbles, I had always held that, like good wine, honest prose needed, as it were, no blush.
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