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Wednesday, May 13. 2009
Antiochian Web Wars
Your comments and experiences are welcome.
Posted by Mark at 12:50 | Comments (57)
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#1 Anonymous on 2009-05-13 13:10
For the record, these sites are in no way different than yours. Also Fr. Nasr only had one post, and if you read it, it only said to leave us alone and pointing out exactly what happened in regards to the "poison" of this website and those alike, these are all dangerous websites. I suggest just wait till the national convention. I'm not surprised your not selling stuff on this site yet, like advertising space. If so I would like to advertise due to hits. thanks.
#2 Mike on 2009-05-13 13:12
There is a person writing as "Fr John" on theantiochian.com but I wish people to know that this is not me. I will always sign my full name to my posts.
Fr John Chagnon
St. Elias Orthodox Church
LaCrosse, WI
I was banned from the site. Quickly I discovered that one person has developed characters that all use the same language and grammar and agree with one another. They go hog wild on anyone who disagrees (or whom they assume is disagreeing with them). Sadly it makes all of the Antiochians look bad. When you have a loose cannon like that championing you whether you want that person to or not the insanity is spread by association. You have to love the internet, flame warriors and all.
#4 Davil L on 2009-05-13 14:56
This site is the same way.
#4.1 Oh so familiar on 2009-05-14 06:26
It sadly reminds me of the liberal and biased media in this country.
#4.2 Michael Geeza on 2009-05-14 12:56
Davil, they're called sock puppets (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_sock_puppet).
In the case of TheAntiochian.com, until the sock puppets figure out how to spell "shepherd," and also that Little Rock is in the Lower 48, I won't be going back.
Actually, I won't be going back in any case...
#4.3 Peter on 2009-05-14 12:59
Excuse me!
This not about the loose cannon, but the loose canons! Many canons are loose, because the loose cannon loosens them!
Bring us hierarchical duct tape and ecclesiactic elastic bungee cords, that we may bind up the loose cannon and not have any more canons loosed on us.
Otherwise, we will all become losers of the looser.
Is outrage!
Time for some laughter, because the sorrows have not abated.
(Editor's note: Or paraphrasing the Bard:
That it's mad, 'tis true; 'tis true 'tis pity,
And pity 'tis- 'tis true....)
#4.4 Habibi on 2009-05-14 13:13
Thank you for sharing this information with your readers. I'm glad that Doug Kramer denied that there was any official connection with Englewood on the pro-Metropolitan website because if there had been, it would be a disgrace. I think that ocanews.org has performed a great service for those in the AOCA so they have been able to voice their opinions without fear of retribution. No one knows how this controversy will end, but it appears that the Metropolitan is going to have to explain the events more clearly than they have been explained up to this point. There is deep, deep frustration across the country because of his actions. I fear for the future.
#5 anon on 2009-05-13 17:00
Our Council discussed the sad "situation" a few days ago agreeing the new website Antiochianinfo.org could not respond via our computers. Met. P. has already lined up those to defend his position in the Convention (July). Little to be achieved! The Trustees meeting in late May have but three non-arabs chosen to show "representation". One a AEOM clergyman's son who may speak out (doubtful), abd the other two much more doubtful. The millionaires club await their recognition days and gold medals as they become "honorary" members by suggested retirement. Mostly to make room for new wealthy. Old standbys loyal to the inch as they are constantly reminded of "much growth" by Met. P on a constant basis. Light bat the end of the tunnel? All agree little possibility as the, "What's in it for ME", syndrome continues.
#5.1 Anonymous Priest & Council Chairman on 2009-05-14 08:56
We were now able to get into ANTIOCHIANINFO.ORG and it exceeds what we were informed as to this excellent analysis of the Antiochian "mess". All should read it as it does apply to the entire No American scene. Well done and how can the facts be refuted, we agree, without the loss of truth! Many years authors!
#5.1.1 Anonymous Priest & Councilman on 2009-05-14 20:20
Perhaps Doug Cramer has nothing to do with it or his department has nothing to do with it "OFFICIALLY".
Secondly givn the lack of financial accountability from +MP , can we believe it is NOT FINANCED by the Archdiocesan *FUNDS*?
#5.2 anon & anon on 2009-05-14 12:56
David L,
You are the same person that posted 8 different times on theantiochian.com using different names with the same IP address making fun of the metropolitan and of others on the site. Im glad that they banned you because you offered nothing in the course of the debate. For people who are trying to get a real understanding of what is going on, you offer nothing in return except cynicism. Websites like this one and theantiochian.com are giving us a forum to speak, but you abuse it. If you continue the same trend on this website, hopefully mr. stokoe will ban you too.
Subdeacon Paul
(editor's note: Pardon my ignorance, but how is that you know David L. posted 8 times under various aliases from the same IP address? Are you a principal of the site? Or did the principal make the above public?)
#6 Subdeacon Paul on 2009-05-14 06:09
It should be clear to all what this is all about. We have + Philip who will have to step down shortly. So, who will take over? The "Loyalists" (mostly old country priests and sympathizers like Frs. Gabriel and Allen) want to keep the status quo. Then you have the "Progressives" who embraced "autonomy" and want the AOCA to act like an independent church. (mostly convert priests and "well-educated" Orthodox in the AOCA).
So, we have "old country" foreign bishop control vs. an independent Orthodox Church running it's own affairs. Which is correct? Which is Canonical? According to Orthodox Canon Law, ONLY local bishops have authority over local churches. The entire concept of ANY Patriarch have authority over churches in North America is NON-CANONICAL! + Philip knows this and even spoke forcefully against Canon 28 the Phanar's claims of authority in North America. Well, the same is true for the Pat. of Antioch (Damascus); the Moscow Patriarch or any other. The ONLY church which has canonical authority in North America is the indigenous, church originally formulated in North America by the Russian Mission. This is the OCA. For this reason, the Phanar continues to pretend the OCA doesn't exist or is some how "non-canonical." Silly and stupid.
The only hope for the Antiochians is for + Philip to retire; + Basil be elected as Met. via unanimous acclamation; and the AOCA bishops address the Pat. of Antioch enforcing the AOCA's claim of "AUTONOMY." Next, joining the OCA and becoming a fully, autocephalous church in North America.
(editor's note: Let's just start with the first claim, before we go on to all the rest: what makes you think that Metropolitan Philip will shortly have to step down?)
#7 Anonymous on 2009-05-14 06:45
I think Anonymous #7 may be on to something. It is obvious that Metropolitan Philip will sooner or later retire. Who will succeed him? The Holy Synod cannot be so foolish as to think they could just send over someone from the Old Country and expect him to be accepted. So the choice would be from among the locals. Despite disagreements with Metropolitan Philip, Bishop Joseph would likely be the Synod's choice. However, if the "self rule" were still in place, the vote of the people, laity and most clergy, would be Bishop Basil. This would be unacceptable to the Synod and the "old guard" for a variety of reasons. For the Synod, Bishop Basil would represent a step away from the generous financial support of Metropolitan Philips tenure; for the "old guard" it would mean an end to the freewheeling laxity on canon and doctrine, the "draconian" narcissism and self-promotion, and the financial mismanagement that includes fleecing the sheep while arrogantly portraying themselves as poor and humble servants....
#7.1 Hiding till the all clear on 2009-05-15 04:22
"(editor's note: Let's just start with the first claim, before we go on to all the rest: what makes you think that Metropolitan Philip will shortly have to step down?)"
What do you think this whole mess is about? Rumor has it, when the Pat. (Antiochian) was in the US last Nov., Met. Philip addressed his retirement. Why? Health, old age, can't do it anymore, wants to live out his last days in peace - take your pick. He wants to maintain the status quo - an old country bishop running things here and staying loyal to Damascus.
(Editor's note: If he picked this way to "live out his last days in peace" he made a fearful mistake, no? Your speculation remains just that - speculation.)
#7.2 Anonymous on 2009-05-15 15:12
Thank you so much for this article. I checked out The Antiochian and I really had a good laugh. It brought a moment of levity to my otherwise boring morning at work.
I am sure The Antiochian will provide many more hours of free entertainment. Really, they should consider charging for the funnier stuff -- like when the admin posts uncivilized, rude and insulting messages messages banning posters for being uncivilized, rude and insulting!
Thanks again!
#8 Anonymous Antionchian on 2009-05-14 07:22
www.theantiochian.com is an extension of the AOCA web site. Just what everyone expected!
#9 Anonymous on 2009-05-14 07:50
Note of Interest: OCA Arch'd News mentions selection of AUDITING COMMITTEE MEMBERS selected. Please note Englewood as you have never had one and perhaps never will !
#9.1 AntiochianLayman on 2009-05-14 19:38
Speaking of Websites my fellow bro. Priest tuned me to email@example.com Wonder if they are still functioning or "silenced" by AOC. The Priest Fr. I.H. prev of Ft wayne, Ind. and his wife were excommunicated (documented in the WORD magazine) for accepting thru nthe legal Ind. courts owed severance and health funds owed him. Sad it took the cts to repay him and what a price they paid? "No, he is not vindictive!"
#9.2 Anonymous Priest (Eastern-Region or Diocese??) on 2009-05-15 13:13
The "Concerned Orthodox" website is still in operation, but not current! The Priest jointed a Russian Jurisdiction (perhaps not canonical) but what choice did he have? The leaders of our Church accept each other's "dictates", and so the exodus to Jerusalem groups, etc. Too much vindictiveness in the Church. We're told a Jewish Judge hearing the case in Indiana stated, "And these are Christians?" How sad.
#9.3 Anonymous E. Region Priest on 2009-05-15 17:20
This reminds me of the battling Web sites during the tenure of Abp. Spyridon in the GOA. We should have seen the parallels between Abp. Spyridon and Metr. Philip long before this; the climates of fear they both created, their heavy-handed administrations, their common callous disregard for financial accountibility. Unfortunately, Metr. Philip is somewhat more firmly entrenched than Abp. Spyridon ever was, which will make it more difficult to cast out the disease from the body.
Sic semper tyrannis,
#10 Nemo on 2009-05-14 13:07
(Editor's note: Heeeeeeeee's back...."
#11 Anonymous on 2009-05-14 14:12
Who in the world is M.C., All Caps Anonymous Guy? Is it Master of Ceremonies, like Burt Parks used to be on the "Miss America" pageant?
#11.1 Scott Walker on 2009-05-15 16:07
There are many who know that few (if any) writings are attributable to Metropolitan Phillip. His ghost writers (one resides a mile from him) and others write his material. He ends every Convention message with some quote to "inspire" his audience. I wonder what other Prelate had 5 books written about him by those seeking his admiration (and bronze medal). He is a brilliant middle eastern CEO and time and history will prove it.
#11.2 Anonymous East Coast Antiochian Layperson on 2009-05-16 11:13
What I did was demonstrate how a website like theantiochian.com can be manipulated because of it's lack security measures to assure that one person can not use multiple names. The admin had to change my posted name to an ip address. The admin there has the ability to use multiple names because no one else has the ability to know who is who. We are at the mercy of an anonymous administrator (and dare I say the voices in his or her head). I never made fun of the Metropolitan, just the poorly constructed site (if it is meant for serious discussion). I stated seriously that I didn't know enough to have an opinion but that I feared that Satan was at work in the church (on both sides) and then one of the characters attacked me. I love Metropolitan PHILIP. One reason I became Orthodox was because of his writings and vision. I am so sad that this is happening to the Antiochians. Satan really is attacking the church and some faithful and some nominal members of the church will and are going to be tools. God forgive me if I have. My advice is stay away from the site and be thankful if you get banned. It was my hope and this time a dream came true.
OCANews is quite a different site. I may not always agree with content, etc but it is intellectually dishonest to equate this site with theantiochian.com
#12 David L on 2009-05-14 14:38
I don't consider it appropriate for me to comment at length on this board, but I want to clarify something mentioned on this thread. Neither myself nor anyone else on my team at the Antiochian Archdiocese Department of Internet Ministry is involved in any way, formally or informally, with either of the websites mentioned in the above article.
Believe me, we've got more than enough on our plate maintaining and improving the one website for which we are responsible, www.antiochian.org, where we're endeavoring to publish content reflecting the wide range of work currently being done by the ministries of the Archdiocese.
Christ is Risen!
Doug Cramer
Chair, Dept. of Internet Ministry
The admin on theantiochian made us aware that David L. was posting via many names under the same address. In fact he even posted a comment and signed your name to it and then wrote another comment arguing against what he initially said only under a different name. The admin removed his aliases to his comments and left his ip in place so people can see. I hope you don't tolerate these stupid gnaws that people play.
Subdeacon Paul
#14 Anonymous on 2009-05-14 19:28
Actually, theantiochian.com is located in Waltham MA via Icdsoft Ltd. and "sam farah" is rumored to own two other domains. Hmmmmm.
#15 Anonymous on 2009-05-15 06:43
Mr. Stokoe's "burning house" reference when our Antiochian brothers and sisters began their struggle has stuck in my mind. When he made it it "seemed" inoffensive and I make no judgment as to whether it was appropriate or accurate. In the "American" context, we value openness and transparency highly. It is socially acceptable and encouraged in Western society to engage and to be involved in the social and family structures of others. In the Arab cultures, it seems that familial relations and privacy are more highly valued. Might this difference of cultural values have a bearing on what we are seeing in the conflicting websites and clashes on this website? It seems that the well intentioned mention of our neighbor's house fire may be viewed as interference by our neighbor. The 911 call may have been appreciated but the ongoing new media coverage of the smoldering house may appear to be a bit over the top. Understanding this might give some context, our Arab brothers and sisters may not like their dirty laundry aired in public as is common in the West. Because they don't, we automatically think that something is hidden away. Keep that in mind before we ridicule their "style."
#16 Curious Onlooker on 2009-05-15 07:45
Curious Onlooker:
Why must everything be reduced to a conflict between "East" and "West?" For the love of Pete, we live in the United States of America. That is in the dreaded "West". If people don't like "Western" attitudes, I suggest they leave the "West" and go to the "East" (and see how they like there).
Every time someone of an "ethnic" background does something wrong, stupid or mean (like trying to reverse self-rule, demote diocesan bishops without cause and declare himself King of the World), the "difference between East and West" is proffered up as an excuse for his or her bad behavior.
I'm tired of it. There are absolute standards of conduct for the entire race of men which transcend the artificial boundaries of "East" and "West." Let us no longer give people a pass when they transgress them.
#16.1 Anonymous Anitochian on 2009-05-16 09:39
When Christianity and culture disagree, Christianity trumps culture -- and Christianity favors openness and transparency, judging from Ephesians 5:11-14, for starters.
#16.2 Gregory on 2009-05-16 20:51
Equating privacy with evil (the darkness) ? I don't buy that one. And beating up on the east vs, west analogy completely misses the point. If two loved ones disagree, do we need the whole world listening in on the argument? No. And if you're advocating your way or the highway, I guess we can't disagree in the good old USA. Off ramp please.
#16.3 Anon on 2009-05-17 17:46
At first I thought the Antiochian site was an Oniondome parody. But it seems to be real. One can ask some people "Are you right handed or left handed?". Some will honestly answer "Hamhanded". Now you know where to find them.
#17 ba'ab on 2009-05-15 10:34
There doesn't seem to be any news coming either from Damascus/Englewood or the non-signee's of The Loyalty Accord thrust before the use to be's.
The ball is now in Met. Philip's court and I am awaiting the first overbearing act i.e. attempting to transfer one of the recently demoted Diocesans or some sort of discplinary measure taken against one of them.
When (not if) that occurs it will begin the real shakeup in our God Protected but assaulted by the devil anyway Archdiocese.
#18 Kevin Kirwan on 2009-05-15 13:29
Dear Kevin,
On the most recent thread of "TheAntiochian", you can see those claiming to be clergy licking their chops at specific "exiles" of their former diocesans.
Another example of holding to St. Ignatius' teaching on the place of the episcopate. Some, (one hopes few) contemporary antiochian clergy seem to root for the lions.
Priest Yousuf Rassam
#18.1 Anonymous on 2009-05-16 06:04
It is reallydisturbing that people who post on these sites claim that what the Holy Synod did was against church canons. This is simply not true. The Orthodox Christian tradition in general treats its canons more as guidelines than as laws, as the Holy Synod is able to interpret them to allow the faithful to adjust to cultural and other local circumstances. Some Orthodox canon scholars point out that, had the ecumenical councils meant for the canons to be used as laws, they would have called them nomoi/νόμοι (laws) rather than kanones/κανόνες (standards). Thus, the decisions of the Holy Synod are to be obeyed since they are essential for the Churchs unity.
#19 Anonymous on 2009-05-16 05:49
From your friend the Buddhist convert. A famous saying in Chinese and Greek: "crisis equals opportunity".
This will be an interesting summer.
Heretofore, whenever one sees any press about the Orthodox world it is either irrelevant or negative: 1) a bearded Greek priest throws a cross into the cold river and some kid dives after it. This always makes the news. 2)Monks at the Holy Sepulchre arrested for fighting. 3) OCA can't get their financial house in order, elects unknown Metropolitan. 4)Antiochian turmoil over power hungry regional bishops.
Metrpolitan P. was too nice to overbearing bishops and now the battle escalates. It is a time of crisis and opportunity. Get beyond the bad canonical advice, the warring websites and merge with the OCA to staighten out two messes at once: ecclesiastical and financial. Elect one leader to guide us. Instead of tearing each other apart, heal and move on with an American Orthodox Church in the vision of our teachers from the past.
Competing websites and "gothcha" canonical arguments are going nowhere. Sit down and have a merger and come together. Lets get some positive press. CARPE DIEM.
#20 Orthodox Shaolin on 2009-05-16 07:38
I am always perplexed when commentators attempt to explain bad behavior by blaming cultural conditioning. It is apparent reading the gospels that Christ never condoned or excused the conduct of the Pharaisee's who after all were merely attempting to be really good jews. (At least this was their excuse)
The hypocrisy and duplicity of religious authorities should always be exposed. I am truly sorry that is upsetting to some who feel they must find a way to explain or rationalize the behavior of those who are supposed to be shepherds.
I can certainly understand the consternation of those who want to defend Met. Philip and the actions of the Synod against unwarranted criticisms. Unfortunately for them such criticism is not only needed but warranted if one truly loves the truth.
There is a simple remedy to this mess and it is not ignoring it. How about the folks who are acting badly stop it?
#21 Kevin Kirwan on 2009-05-16 09:00
Can anyone comment on the leaked opinion of Chancellor Charles Ajalat that seems to declare the February resolution null and void?
see, http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,19965.msg321825.html#msg321825
#22 Anonymous on 2009-05-17 05:38
Oh now the lawyers are involved!! Lets start the litigation..this is real helpful. A well crafted 15 page wordweb...I think Ajalat and Koory should have cosulted with Met. P. and reviewed Church history. Did you ever here of the term "ECONOMIA"???
The Patriarch and the Metrpolitan have the discretionary power to manage and govern the Church as they see fit for our salvation. All canons are subjet to the spirit of the law before the letter of the law. "Put not your trust in princes and sons of men, in whom there is no salvation".
The bottle, the genie and the can of worms are all out Humpty Dumpty. Kyrie e Leson.
#23 Orthodox Shaolin on 2009-05-17 08:03
If you appeal to the spirit of the canons ahead of the letter, I think you will find that there are even more canons that the purported dethronement of our diocesan bishops violated in spirit than in letter.
Economia may be used as a defense of not imposing canonical sanctions when a priest or bishop deems it for the spiritual good of a penitent or the Church--as, for example in Met. Philip's dealings with Bishop Demetri's misconduct, where the canons would have permitted an ecclesiastical trial with deposition from the episcopate as the result of conviction. It cannot be used as a defense of authority not held by bishops--in this case a faction of the Holy Synod of Antioch (or Met. Philip alone if he is misinterpreting or misapplying the decision)--to remove other bishops from their diocesan thrones without charge, trial or consent.
As an extreme example to show that you are misapplying the concept of economia, the Pope of Rome could not have asserted economia as a support for his claim of universal ordinary jurisdiction. Economia lets a bishop (or priest by delegation) chose to not exercise canonical authority, it does not create authority with no basis in tradition, the Holy Canons or Holy Scripture.
#23.1 Subdeacon David Yetter on 2009-05-17 13:37
I take back anything I ever said ill about attorneys....I have two new heroes.
See boys and girls, you CAN stand up for what is right.
#24 Antionymous on 2009-05-17 09:30
Mark, you latest posting just blew me away. Why don't you have a comment link on it. BTW, of course there is no mention of it on the Phillip propaganda site.
#25 Steve on 2009-05-17 10:31
There are proper canonical bodies with full authority to make decisions concerning the administration of the Antiochian Archdiocese. One of them is not a discussion group on the internet. Everyone should calm down and let these bodies, the Local Synod, the Holy Synod, the Patriarch, the Board of Trustees and General Assembly of the Archdiocesan Convention, resolve any issues concerning the administration of the Archdiocese. Representatives of both sides have gone to extremes and are only fanning the flames of division among the Antiochian Orthodox in this country. I am offended by the criticisms of my Metropolitan from the opponents of the decision of the Holy Synod. Too many people are reporting what is really only gossip as if it were fact. I have served under Metropolitan Philip for 30 years and know and respect him. The accusations that he has done something dishonest on this matter are without foundation. One should remember that we are Americans. In America a man is innocent until proven guilty. No one has produced anything that proves Metropolitan Philip guilty of anything other than concern for the unity of his Archdiocese. One may disagree with his views, but never, ever, resort to slander and spreading unfounded attacks on his personal character. From personal experience, I know that he is not a tyrant and that he does not micromanage his clergy. My personal experience of him is that he does not want his clergy to be yes men, but that he always gives them a fair hearing of their concerns.
I am also offended some of the statements of the other side. Our Bishops are dedicated servants of Christ. To characterize any Antioch Bishop as a renegade, is offensive. The lack of respect towards Bishops Basil and Mark by some priests is a scandal. Even if our Bishops are Auxiliary Bishops, the priests under their authority must obey and respect them. It is tragic that some priests are so filled with pride that they think they can insult his local Bishops and still be faithful to Metropolitan Philip. A priest who does not respect his local bishop, regardless of his title, does not really respect the Metropolitan under which he serves. One can and must be loyal to the Metropolitan and still be loyal and obedient to our local Bishops.
There is in some of the postings an implication of ethnocentrism and a we vs they mentality. One must make a distinction between those aspects of his culture that are Orthodox and those that are merely ethnic. A convert must accept all aspects of Orthodox culture, but he does not have to abandon his own ethnic culture and embrace another ethnic culture. Make no mistake about it, just as there is a Russian, a Greek, a Serbia, and an Arab expression of Orthodoxy, there must also be an American expression of Orthodoxy.
We must also remember the heritage of Antioch, which was the first place that non-Jews were welcomed into the Church. There are not converts and cradle Orthodox, there are only Orthodox. Converts and those who have been Orthodox all their lives, must respect and love each other. Converts must not look down on cradle Orthodox, but cradle Orthodox must not look down on converts. I am just as much an Orthodox Priest as someone who has been Orthodox all their life and whose ancestors have been Orthodox for 2 thousand years. Whether a priest receives his education at Balamand, St. Vladimirs, Holy Cross, or St. Tikhons is immaterial. A priest is still a priest regardless of where he studied for the priesthood. There is no place in the Orthodox Church for ethnocentrism or for treating those not born in the Faith as second class Orthodox.
However, this turns out; I am prepared to obey the higher authority of the Church. However, I repeat the internet is not that higher authority. Everyone should calm down and let those with legitimate authority discuss this matter and make the decisions. In any case, we must not allow ourselves to become divided over this matter. Instead, everyone should pray and accept whatever decision the responsible bodies make. If our Bishops remain Auxiliaries we must accept that outcome. If they once again are made Diocesan Bishops, we must accept that outcome. In any case, we must understand that there are appropriate places for this discussion; anonymous letters to the internet is not one of them. Let the Bishops, the Board of Trustees, the Holy Synod and the General Assembly discuss this matter. Finally, let us remember that we are all brothers in Christ regardless of our opinions on the administration of the Antiochian Archdiocese.
Archpriest John W. Morris, Pastor
St. Georges Antiochian Orthodox Church,
Vicksburg, Mississippi.
(editor's note: In other words, children, settle down and be quiet. You are disturbing the drivers.)
#26 Archpriest John W. Morris on 2009-05-19 08:25
Christ is Risen!
Father bless!
As other have pointed out, there have been times in the history of the Church when letting 'responsible bodies' sort everything out would not have served the interests of the Holy Orthodox Faith, and it was the laity and ordinary clergy who preserved the Faith.
We would not be having this discussion at all if the laity and ordinary clergy and a 'renegade' bishop had let the 'responsible bodies' sort out the aftermath of the Council of Florence/Ferrar. The model of ecclesiastical governance set forth by Met. Philip's application (or misapplication) of the purported revision to the Patriarchal Bylaws would be well-established, with all bishops serving as auxiliaries under the universal ordinary jurisdiction of the Pope of Rome. (Can one really revise Bylaws at a meeting which violates those Bylaws by not having a quorum present? But I digress.)
The 'Johnites' who supported St. John Chrysostom in his exile had orange groves instead of an internet forum, but they, not the 'responsible bodies' of the day were the ones who upheld the Faith.
Met. Philip is deserving of much praise for the building up of the Archdiocese, and with it the Holy Orthodox Church in North America. Unfortunately, his misapplication of the purported Synodal decision, has no purpose or effect other than to destroy his own crowning achievement--the creation of proper, reasonable-sized dioceses, with ruling bishops able to know not only their priests, but their minor clergy and a good portion of the laity, mostly with their bishops not collated with bishops of other Orthodox juridictions, as a necessary step toward Orthodox unity in North America within the normal canonical structures of the Orthodox Church: one city, one bishop.
The whole affair gives on the horrible feeling that one is seeing in real life the figure in bishop's robes hanging on one of the upper rungs of the Ladder of Divine Ascent by a hooked foot while a demon tries to pull him entirely off.
Make no mistake. The arguments about 'unity' evinced for abolition of diocesan bishops, and with them the local Holy Synod, represents an ecclesiological heresy of the same sort as the Latin papacy.
Pray that all of us, especially Met. Philip, will be delivered from it.
#26.1 Subdeacon David Yetter on 2009-05-19 22:44
(editor's note: In other words, children, settle down and be quiet. You are disturbing the drivers.)
Frankly, I am greatly offended by the editors sarcastic response to my recent post. He owes me an apology. I do not deserve his disdain. Nor should my heartfelt ideas be belittled.
This may shock some people, but the Church is not a democracy. Thank God, it is not. If I wanted to be part of a religious body where decisions were made by who could gather the most support through a quasi-political campaign, I would have remained an Episcopalian. All of the discussion on the internet makes no difference, because we do not make decisions in the Orthodoxy Church through the internet or even, in some cases, by majority vote. One important aspect of Orthodox ecclesiology is missing from all the discussions on the internet, the concept of obedience. As a priest, I am under obedience to my bishop. It does not matter what I think about any issue. St. Ignatius wrote a faithful Orthodox Christian must, submit to the bishop as you would to Jesus Christ. (Letter to the Trallians). In this case, there are bodies with legitimate authority to decide on the administrative structure of the Antiochian Archdiocese. Whatever they decide a faithful Orthodox Christian must accept their decision.
At least, I have the courage to sign my postings.
Archpriest John W. Morris
(Editor's note: With such black and white positions, Father, one wonders how you explain away the 16th Council of Carthage (held in 418), for example, composed of over 200 Bishops, held as valid both in East and West, and their canons, one of which, #10, in the second paragraph contains the following interesting method of deciding matters of controversy in the Church:
If the Donatist bishop has himself become Catholic, the two bishops (he and the Catholic one) shall divide equally between them the two communities now united, so that one portion of the towns shall belong to one, and the
other to the other bishop. The bishop who has been longest in office shall make the division, but the other shall have the choice.
If there is only one township of this description, then it shall belong to whichever See is nearest to it; but if there are two equally near, the people shall decide it by the majority of votes.
If the votes are equal, the elder bishop
has the preference.
If, however, the towns to which both parties belonged are of unequal number, so that they cannot be equally divided, the remaining one shall be dealt with as was prescribed above, in the preceding canon, with regard to a single town.
Those shameful Bishops - asking people to express their opinion by voting, and allowing them to do so! Apparently they had no one to tell them about about "obedience" in the 5th century!
I have yet to read anyone advocating "democracy" in the Church, Father, on this site - ever. That you do says more about you than the opinions expressed here. Surely, we can do better than to reduce those we disagree with to characticure. Isn't that exactly what you are accusing me of doing through satire?
However, I do apologize for offending you. That was never my intent - it was to amuse. But I do not apology for the content of my heartfelt remarks - for as your further comment makes clear, you do believe what I think, what you think, what anybody else thinks but a select few, matters in the least. Fortunately, God cares what I, you and everyone else thinks, otherwise he wouldn't have given His Life to convince us of his love. )
#27 Archpriest John W. Morris on 2009-05-19 16:22
While I can appreciate some of what Fr. Morris has to say I must take issue with some of his musings.
He asks us to remember we are Americans in granting Met. Philip the benefit of the doubt regarding his role in recent events. I believe there has not been unwarranted or excessive criticisms of the Metropolitan in this regard. Criticisms and rightful indignation at his words and conduct following the Synodal decreee absolutely. His attempt to have the now auxiliary bishops sign a loyalty confession the most recent example of his super episcopal coercion.
Let this serve as a reminder to His Grace that he is indeed dealing with "Americans" Something in times past he himself reminded the Holy Synod, when attemting to explain the neccessity of our autonomy.
Fr. Morris also asks us to "accept whatever decisions the responsible bodies make" I certainly do not have to cite for Fr. Morris who is an academic how many so called "Responsible Orthodox Bodies" in our history have failed to uphold either Catholic dogma or Holy Tradition. I am sure Fr. Morris understands and appreciates the dangers of that sort of blind obedience.
Be careful about discounting the rational sheep as being something less than responsible participants in Christ's Holy Church and the matter now before us.
#28 Kevin Kirwan on 2009-05-19 17:39
Since we are bandying offenses right now let me offer mine. I am offended when a cleric whether a Bishop or Priest resorts to demands for obedience when truth or justice can no longer be relied upon as an ally.
This is especially egregious when one equates that so called obedience as unto Christ Himself. Is it without qualifiacation that Fr. Morris believes that you "must" submit to a Bishop? I hardly think St. Ignatius was intending to give a carte blanc check to Episcopal prerogatives and that the only response available to the faithful is some sort of submissive groveling.
I had stated earlier that Fr. John obviously understands the dangers of such blind obedience. His further clarifications have now convinced me otherwise.
I also wonder if Fr. Morris is willing to concede that the Chancellors of this Archdiocese can be counted amongst the "Responsible Bodies"? So far their legal opinion and articulate testimony seems to be by far the most compelling indictment against the ill-advised actions of Damascus.
Finally I am offended by Fr. Morris's courage compairisons to his fellow clergy because he signs his letters. As far as I can tell none of his brother priests can transfer, discipline, or otherwise make life miserable for him as can the Metropolitan he defends. There are more than a few clerical casualties among those who dared question let alone resist his Eminence. Give your brothers a break.
#29 Kevin Kirwan on 2009-05-20 09:02
I hope Kevin and the other realize what we are seeing with Fr Morris's contribution to this dialogue.... I would wager that Metropolitan Philip got the word out early on that his allies were to jump into the fray and defend him. First we saw Economos Gabriel, then his wife, Fr Hughes, Fr Washburn, Fr Nasr and others. This is unfolding much the same way as when a scathing article was published around the time of the Ben Lomond debacle. The word went out from Englewood that "senior" priests should each respond to the article with a counter point or broadside. The pressure to show loyalty to Metropolitan Philip was intense and move to crush the opposition was heated. (It would be instructive to re-visit the facts and principle movers in that situation, particularly Bishop Joseph's role)
While some of these priests are good men, dedicated the the faith, and faithfully living out their priestly vocations, others have much in their lives and priestly history they will pay heavily for on judgment day - and their self agrandizement, earthly honors, and vindictivenss portrayed as righteousness will gain them nothing.
What Metropolitan Phlip and his friends can't stand about this website and others is that the anonymity of the charges are not slanderous, they reveal truth and, in some cases, knowledge of facts that at the least embarass, and in the worst case show blatant disregard for pastoral duty, Christian virtue, fiscal responsibility in managing the treasures of the Church....
As Orthodox Christians we have a right to expect heroic virtue and selfless dedication from the clergy and bishops of the Church. Too often with Metropolitan Philip and other 'leaders' in the AOCA justify selfishness as balanced by 'the good' that they accomplish in other areas.
In the days ahead, the Convention will attempt a resolution supporting the Patriarchate and the Holy Synod. This will be presented as simply avowing unity and solidarity with the Mother Church. The result will be complete dissolution of 'self rule' - which Antioch was never quite comfortable with in the first place. Later, when Metropolitan Phlip retires Bishop Joseph will be proclaimed the new Metropolitan.
Just wait and see. In the meantime, I'm keeping my head down.
(editor's note: And in so doing, you are different from those you accuse in what way? Where is your heroic virtue, etc? By "keeping your head down" you offer no solutions - you just perpetuate the problem. There will be no "all clear" - and no chance for whoever picks up the reigns from Metropolitan Philip to do any better. The solution is not to hide and cower - but to call on the Metropolitan to be all that his supporters claim he is - honest, truthful, a leader. Open the books, practice transparency, be accountable, dispel the fear that forces men (and women) such as yourself to "keep their heads down". Should we expect any less from our leaders? )
#30 Hiding till the all clear on 2009-05-21 04:20
Dear Father:
While I appreciate your words, and am justly chastised for not displaying my own heroic virtue, I, like others, have learned the hard way to keep my head down.
#31 Hiding till the all clear on 2009-05-21 15:08
Subdeacon David Yetter wrote, As other have pointed out, there have been times in the history of the Church when letting 'responsible bodies' sort everything out would not have served the interests of the Holy Orthodox Faith, and it was the laity and ordinary clergy who preserved the Faith. This is correct. Relevant to this discussion, I would make two points. The first is that the controversy concerns administrative issues, not dogmatic concerns. Whatever title or authority the local bishops have when the dust settles it will in no way change the Orthodox Faith. Regardless of what decision is made, our Holy Orthodox Faith will remain the same. Throughout the history of the Church different areas have had the freedom to develop administrative forms that best suit their circumstances. Here in America, we have much more lay involvement in the administration of the Church. After Peter the Great, the Russian Orthodox Church was a department of state administered by a layman appointed by the Tsar. Although this was actually uncanonical the Russian Orthodox Church was still Orthodox. The Church of Greece was organized following the example of the state churches of Europe after Greece became a monarchy ruled by first a Bavarian, and then a Danish dynasty. Despite the interference of the state with the Church, the Church of Greece was still Orthodox under the monarchy. The forms of administration can be changed without changing the Faith of the Church.
The second is that the faithful do have the ability to express their concerns. Every diocese will have a Family Life Conference this summer. In July the Archdiocesan Convention will meet. These bodies, along with the Parish Councils and the Board of Trustees provide the proper forum for the faithful to express their concerns on the administration of our Archdiocese. I cannot take seriously unsubstantiated accusations made by someone who lacks the courage to identify themselves or who may bring a personal and highly subjective bias to this discussion.
Finally some of your posts have implied that I have written what I have written to curry the favor of Metropolitan Philip. This is not true. I have written what I have written on my own and not because anyone asked me to write.
Archpriest John W. Morris
(Editor's note: The Board of Trustees are selected, appointed and may be removed by the Archbishop. How does this forum provide laity with a chance to express their concerns? Since the Archbishop does not attend the all parish/family life conferences how does this venue allow laity to express their concerns to him - except, of course, to their diocesan bishops, who, one assumes, already know them as they are the chief victims of the debacle? Thus, the only serious venue you mention for laity to express their concerns is the Archdiocesan Convention - which, of course, does not seem to matter since even the Constitution adopted by it can be overturn by fiat, as recent events have demonstrated. Might I suggest an alternative? Rather than complaining about the "inappropriateness" of the internet as a forum of expression, why not begin discussions of how to harness it for mutual benefit? Finally, correct me if I am wrong, but are you arguing that being "uncanonical" ( as in the case of the Russian Church's administration in the time of Peter, or Greece later) is not a problem if the Faith is secure? And that this is therefore a model for the Archdiocese - that while the Faith is secure, the administration is not relevant? That seems to me to be an argument that could come back to bite one in the future...)
#32 Fr. John W. Morris on 2009-05-23 15:08
Christ is Risen!
Father Bless!
I must humbly disagree with the assertion you and Metropolitan Philip have made that the controversy "concerns administrative issues, not dogmatic concerns." The Church is the Mystical Body of Christ, and as such has a proper structure or taxis set down in the canons of the Holy Ecumenical Councils and local councils received by them--and thus, if we really believe our hymnography that calls the Holy Fathers of the Ecumenical Councils "the Harps of the Spirit", by the Holy Spirit Himself--and in the life of the Church down the ages since Pentecost.
The fact that the Church has continued to function even when wounded by the machinations of Westernizing Tsars and nationalist governments does not mean that those who argued for those aberrations were merely meddling in 'administrative concerns', rather than holding an heretical ecclesiology.
You would do well, Father, to read the critique of the whole notion of auxiliary bishops by Met. George of Mount Lebanon at www.orthodoxattorneys.org/docs/exh/Ex_13-3_-_2003_1018_Article-MetrGeorgeKhodr-inEnglish.pdf
The idea advanced by supporters of the dethronement of our diocesan bishops that the Archdiocese is somehow disunited if it is
ruled by a Holy Synod of equal diocesan bishops under the presidency of our Metropolitan as prime inter pares, that unity is only achieved by having only one real ruling bishop, is the argument evinced by the Latins for the Roman Papacy writ small. We did not reject the universal ordinary jurisdiction of the Pope of Rome even back in the days when the Popes of Rome confessed the Orthodox Faith in matters of Christology, triadology and soteriology as "an administrative concern" but because the theory that there is (and must be) only one real bishop for the Church to be united is a novelty, an error, a position contrary to Holy Tradition, in short a heresy.
Like all heresies it is also, quite simply false. If our beloved Archdiocese would be disunited by following its Constitutions, then every Orthodox partiarchate, autocephalous or autonomous church in the world, governed in like manner with proper diocesan bishops ruling diocese and forming a Holy Synod, which under its chief hierarch abides by both clauses of Apostolic Canon 34 (or 35, depending on who's counting), (meaning all of them) are disunited. That is an absurd position.
The Orthodox faithful have as much right to defend the Church against ecclesiological heresies as we have to defend it against Christological or triadological heresies.
In Christ,
Subdeacon David [Yetter]
#32.1 Subdeacon David Yetter on 2009-05-27 10:31
I suppose what troubles me the most about this whole controversy, is that I do not understand what all the controversy is about. The local bishops of the Antiochian Archdiocese were not independent ruling bishops even before the decision of the Holy Synod to change their title. I have spoken with two Antiochian Bishops who tell me that nothing much has really changed. We continued to commemorate the Metropolitan. His signature is still on the antimension. We continue to refer matters of divorce to him. All baptisms, marriages and funerals are registered with his office. All transfers have to receive his approval. I distinctly remember being told that since His Eminence had led the Archdiocese for so long that he would continue to exercise most of his old authority. Thus, all that really happened is that the Holy Synod clarified the situation and changed the title of the local bishops.
As far as your other comments, we do not have mob rule in Orthodoxy. We certainly do not allow a group of people writing anonymously on the internet to determine the policy of the Church. From some of the comments, I believe that some of your contributors have a preconceived bias against our Metropolitan and probably against the Antiochian Archdiocese in general.
As imperfect as you may consider them, there are real placed for the laity to express their opinion and help determine policy in the Antiochian Archdiocese. We have Parish Councils that can write letters. We have diocesan conferences, where laity and clergy can express their opinions and ask questions. We have the Board of Trustees, which is made up of representatives of the laity. They can hardly be considered a group of yes men since the Chancellors have written a very strongly worded opinion on this matter. Finally, we have the General Assembly of the Archdiocesan Convention, where anyone can speak on any issue. However, the Holy Synod of Antioch is still the highest authority over the Antiochian Archdiocese.
Archpriest John W. Morris
(editor's note: What concerns me is that any time any one seems to ask a question in public, allegations of "mob rule" are brought up. If the Archdiocese is so fragile that serious questions may not be asked, I would suggest it has more serious problems than the internet. Finally, if you do not know what the problem is, that may be an indication of the depth and scope of the problem itself. And I would suggest that problem is the purposeful ambiguity perpetrated on the diocese by the Metropolitan - for we can all agree he was in charge - concerning the Bishops, dioceses and Self Rule tself. Such ambiguity must now be faced and if you have spoken to two bishops who see no problems, I can show you three absent Bishop signatures that indicate there is a problem. It is clear that the Archdiocese can only go forward in transparency, openeness and accountability - for the old way of secrecy, lack of accountability and opacity has only led it into the current impasse and dead end. Instead of worrying about a mob that does not exist, why not suggest ways in which the Archdiocese can go forward towards increasing transparency on the Board of Trustees, increasing accountability in terms of finances, and openess on the part the Archdiocese as a whole? )
#33 Fr. John W. Morris on 2009-05-26 07:21
Fr. John mentions the fact that after the enthroning of the Diocesan Bishops Metropolitan Philip was still deferred to in matters of discipline and in other areas that should have been the prerogatives of a Diocesan.
In their desire to show deference and respect to his Eminence our Diocesans made a tragic blunder which has now come back to bite them.
When it comes to His Grace were they not aware of the possibility that no good deed or intention would go unpunished?
#34 Kevin Kirwan on 2009-05-27 10:11
I think that I speak for most Antiochian clergy. We do not agree with either extreme in this dispute. One group wants to hang Metropolitan Philip, the other wants to hang one or more of our local bishops. I do not like to read attacks at the Metropolitan. Neither do I like to read attacks on one or more of our local Antiochian bishops. I have read personal attacks addressed at me simply because I am willing to accept whatever happens and plan to continue to serve God and be loyal to my Metropolitan and my bishop regardless of his title to the best of my ability. Everyone should pray that Gods will be done and let the responsible parties resolve this issue. In any case, trading insults and accusations on the internet is no way for Orthodox Christians to deal with such important matters.
Archpriest John W. Morris
#35 Fr. John W. Morris on 2009-05-27 12:56
In response to Kevin Kirwan. I suggest that you look at the Orthodox Attoeney's site. Look at the list of exhibits and read the one marked Hierarchian Handbook. It was written several years ago, long before this controversy. It shows that from the very beginning certain powers usually given to a ruling bishop were reserved to the Metropolitan.
Archpriest John Morris
(editor's note: The document is the "Manual of Hierarchical Duties", exhibit 30.5)
#36 Fr. John W. Morris on 2009-05-27 16:15
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text:
Until she doesn't.
Right now, I should be settling into my seat on a train bound for Budapest, plugging in my laptop, and getting to work on that Salons video (coming soon — I promise). Unfortunately, my new friend Yvonne Feiger — who has otherwise been of incalculable help to me these past few days — delivered me to the station 7 minutes late. So instead I'm in the hotel lobby at the Hotel Fuerstenhof, speaking broken German with a very cute 7 year old girl, and taking comfort in the fact that I've finally come up with a sensible way to use a Billy Joel song as a blog post headline.
I first came upon Feiger through the Jewish Salons thing (I said, it's coming!), but it turns out she has another interesting story. Two years ago, she and a group of pals were sitting around bitching about the state of the community when, almost on a whim, they decided to start a political party and run in elections for the community board. The party, called Gesher (Hebrew for "bridge), won 10 percent of the vote and now Feiger and a colleague have two seats on the board.
"We're going to be the future of this community," Feiger told me over beers Monday night. "If we can't have a voice on this board, who's going to be deciding what's right for us in 20 or 30 years?"
Throughout this trip (yes, all two weeks of it), I've heard stories of how the European communal structure is rigid and stifling of change. In Germany it wouldn't give way for the new Russian majority to have a fair share of power and that it's not supportive enough of innovative ventures, particularly in the cultural sphere. Similar complaints were heard in Vienna, minus the Russian part.
But what I failed to fully grasp in Germany was why those with gripes didn't do what Feiger and company did — get their act together and get elected. It's a recourse I often wish was available back home,where the top community organizations answer not to democratic pressure, but to their wealthy donors. Maybe someday they will.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
With a perfect 9-0 regular season for 2001 on the record books, the Oconee County Warriors have two weeks to prepare for the first playoff game on Nov. 23.
The Warriors swept the slate with a 48-17 win over North Hall setting up a game next with a team from Region 7.
Oconee came to play last Friday and so did the Trojans. Clay Callway was intercepted and the Trojans got a field goal to lead 3-0 early. But late in the first quarter, Callaway did his best Fran Tarkenton impression by scampering away from defenders and scoring a 35 yard TD to put Oconee up by 7-0.
Oconee racked up 21 points in the second quarter as Riley Reynolds, Tony Taylor and Clint Watson each scored a touchdown for a 28-3 lead. Calloway hooked up for a 91-yard touchdown pass which was a school record.
He had 283 yards passing on the night, a total that was second only to former Oconee quarterback Greg Reeves who threw for 335 yards back in 1984.
Gavin Williams four receptions for 149 yards was second all-time in the record books. But records are made to be broken.
The win meant that Oconee has gone 7-0 for the second year in region play. Also, coach Jeff Arnette is the first Oconee coach to win back to back region titles. Arnette is 18-4 in two years.
The way Oconee is playing the fans need to get ready for five more games.
Adam Riley was greeted by his parents, Chris and Kim Riley, after the victory.Terry Stephens/Special
Defensive coach Mark Frasier gives direction to the players during the game.Terry Stephens/Special
Ben Bridges is the stadium announcer for Warrior home games.
Published in the Athens Banner-Herald on Wednesday, November 14, 2001.
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Furniture by Design: Lessons in Craftmanship from a Master Woodworker
Furniture By Design is a project book for the woodworker, but one that goes beyond traditional woodworking manuals to teach design concepts through carefully selected, hands-on projects the woodworker builds himself. This book is for the woodworker who is not content merely to build from preset plans; instead, it offers projects that will show how the designs originate and take shape, giving the woodworker the freedom to build anything, with or without plans. The book presents a dozen different pieces of furniture, each illustrated with detailed line drawings and each final product pictured in full color. Every project exemplifies a different lesson in design - making the book a self teaching course in woodworking and furniture design for amateurs and experienced woodworkers alike. (8 3/4 X 11 1/4, 156 pages, color photos, diagrams)
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Camden is located in The Olde English Tourism District
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Our home features large well-appointed bed chambers from which to select. The oversized rooms, with 13 foot ceilings and individual central heat/air temperature controls with clean-effects technology for 99.98% allergen free air, feature queen and king beds, private baths with 1930 Italian tiles, and sitting areas. Located on two acres of manicured grounds, several garden sitting areas and the wrap around veranda offer peace and tranquility from the everyday stresses of life. Two parlors on the main floor of the home are always open. The ladies' parlor, featuring Zuber wallpaper, offers a quiet retreat for reading or for pleasant conversation. The gentlemen's parlor often times attracts those interested in the latest world or sports news. The quiet serenity is enhanced by a lack of traffic since Bloomsbury is strategically located one block off the busy streets transiting Camden.
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A wonderful crowd joined us on Thursday, July 28th for an exciting sailing regatta on Boston Harbor, bringing together the best local growth companies ($3M-$20M) with a network of friends and service providers dedicated to reaching new heights, and raising money to support NFTE programs for local low-income youth. The competitive round-robin format involved 22 teams of four that experienced the team building, camaraderie and rewarding accomplishment of racing a J24 sailboat to win the NFTE Cup (no sailing experience required - licensed skipper provided).
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Courtesy of: delcotimes.com
Published: Friday, January 06, 2012
By JOHN J. BURY
Times Guest Columnist
A veteran's plea to U.S. Sen. Patrick Toomey, R-Pa.:
During the Vietnam War era, hundreds of thousands of members of the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force and Coast Guard joined forces to fight in this war. After three-plus years, I ask Sen. Toomey to now join forces with veterans of that war who are sick with diseases.
Nearly all those who served were in-country or at sea and in the air. They were poisoned with Agent Orange dioxin. Agent Orange, a herbicide used in Vietnam, was a defoliant sprayed by hand, tanker truck and aircraft.
Those who served in-country who made claim to the Veterans Administration receive disability compensation for presumptive exposure to Agent Orange, Those who served at sea and in the air do not receive VA disability compensation, because they did not have boots-on-ground in Vietnam.
Some 713 naval ships, designated by the secretary of the Navy, operated in the coastal waters of Vietnam. Sailors and airmen were poisoned by Agent Orange dioxin.
Currently, there is a bill called the Agent Orange Equity Act of 2011 pending in the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee. U.S. Sen. Bob Casey, D-Pa., sent me a letter stating he is supporting the bill.
"This Act would extend presumptive coverage to certain Vietnam veterans called blue-water veterans who served up to 12 miles offshore," he wrote. "Presumptive coverage would lift the burden of proving direct exposure to agent orange of our veterans."
I am asking Toomey to co-sponsor Senate Bill S. 1629 with Casey in bipartisanship.
I further ask citizens of Pennsylvania to write or call or email Sen. Toomey at 215-241-1090 or 202-224-4254. His address is 502 Hart Senate Bldg., Washington, DC 20510; his email is www.toomeysenate.gov Ask him to co-sponsor the bill with Sen. Casey. Continued…]]>
Courtesy of: The Christian Science Monitor
Agent Orange: Washington has been slow to address the issue, quibbling for years with Vietnam.
By Margie Mason, Associated Press / June 16, 2010
Thirty-five years after the Vietnam War, a $300 million price tag has been placed on the most contentious legacy still tainting U.S.-Vietnam relations: Agent Orange.
A joint panel of U.S. and Vietnamese policymakers, citizens and scientists released an action plan Wednesday, urging the U.S. government and other donors to provide an estimated $30 million annually over 10 years to clean up sites still contaminated by dioxin, a toxic chemical used in the defoliant.
The funding would also be used to treat Vietnamese suffering from disabilities, including those believed linked to exposure to Agent Orange, which was dumped by the U.S. military in vast quantities over former South Vietnam to destroy crops and jungle cover shielding communist guerrilla fighters.
Washington has been slow to address the issue, quibbling for years with its former foe over the need for more scientific research to show that the herbicide sprayed by U.S. aircraft during the war caused health problems and birth defects among Vietnamese.
"We are talking about something that is a major legacy of the Vietnam War, a major irritant in this important relationship," said Walter Isaacson, co-chair of the U.S.-Vietnam Dialogue Group on Agent Orange/Dioxin that released the report. "The cleanup of our mess from the Vietnam War will be far less costly than the Gulf oil spill thatBP will have to clean up."
The dialogue group was formed in 2007 to look for ways to address the lingering issue. It is supported by the nonprofit Ford Foundation and coordinated by the nonprofit Aspen Institute.
Their report said nearly $100 million was needed to restore damaged ecosystems and clean up dioxin-contaminated sites, with priority given to three former U.S. air bases in the central city of Danang, and the southern locations of Bien Hoa and Phu Cat — hot spots where Agent Orange was mixed, stored and loaded onto planes during the war, allowing spilled dioxin to seep into the soil and water systems.
Another $200 million would be devoted to expanding care and treatment for Vietnamese with disabilities, including those believed caused by dioxin.
Isaacson said he was hopeful the U.S. government will provide at least half the $300 million needed by 2020, with corporations, foundations and other donors supplying the rest.
"The war is over but the wounds from the war still remain in many areas of Vietnam," Nguyen Van Son, a member of Vietnam's National Assembly, said during the report's launch in Hanoi. "Many Agent Orange victims have died, but many other victims, including children with disabilities, have been fighting diseases under extreme hardship and they are in dire need of treatment and support."
The U.S. military dumped some 20 million gallons (75 million liters) of Agent Orange and other herbicides on about a quarter of former South Vietnam between 1962 and 1971.
The defoliant decimated about 5 million acres (2 million hectares) of forest — roughly the size of Massachusetts — and another 500,000 acres (202,000 hectares) of crops, the report said.
A study released last year by the Canadian environmental firm Hatfield Consultants showed that dioxin levels in some blood and breast milk samples taken from people who had lived near the Danang air base site were 100 times above safe levels.
Dioxin levels in soil, sediment and fish in the same area were 300 to 400 times above international limits. That report estimated up to 100,000 people living near the site still face a potential health risk from exposure.
Dioxin is slow to degrade. It works its way from the soil into the sediment of rivers, lakes and ponds via rainwater then attaches to the fat of fish and ducks, which can be eaten by humans and passed on to future generations.
The Vietnam Red Cross estimates up to 3 million Vietnamese children and adults have suffered health problems related to Agent Orange exposure. But the U.S. says the number is much lower, with many Vietnamese birth defects instead likely resulting from other health and environmental reasons, including malnutrition.
"We said, 'Let's leave aside exactly who's to blame for which illness that might have occurred,'" Isaacson, president and CEO of the Aspen Institute, a nonprofit group that promotes international dialogue, said by phone fromWashington. "It's a mess we made … and we'll get private money and a little bit of government money and we'll clean it up."
The Vietnam War ended April 30, 1975, when the former U.S.-backed regime in Saigon, the former capital of South Vietnam, fell to northern communist forces, reunifying the country.
Agent Orange has remained a thorny topic between the former enemies despite strong recent partnerships in areas ranging from economic to military. Next month, the U.S. and Vietnam will celebrate 15 years of normalized diplomatic relations.
U.S. State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley on Wednesday praised the panel for dealing with a sensitive issue between the countries.
"Their efforts have played an important role in facilitating cooperation between the United States and Vietnam," Crowley told reporters. "We have great interest in the dialogue group's strategic plan, and we look forward to reviewing the details."
The U.S. government has provided $9 million since 2007 to assist with Agent Orange in Vietnam. Another $12 million would be allocated as part of a bill being debated by Congress. A State Department official told reporters during a visit to Hanoi earlier this month that the U.S. hopes to find additional funding for more dioxin-related projects.
Associated Press writer Foster Klug in Washington contributed to this report.]]>


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…Unless Round is Funny: Summer Fridays 4.15
2 Sep
Labor Day weekend, folks. Party it up, you've earned it. Here in New York, we've recently weathered earthquakes and minor hurricanes and other inconveniences. So fire up the grill, put a cold beverage in your hand and turn up the mildly twee indie pop jams on this week's mix. Cover art photo was taken by Kate Bryant at the Friends With You inflatable sculpture park which is at the upper end of the Highline park.
While Labor Day is seen as the end of summer, Summer Fridays mixes will continue to the Autumn Equinox… so you get two more after this. Enjoy!
1. Zumpano! – The Party Rages On
2. Allo Darlin' – Darren
3. Future Bible Heroes – Hopeless
4. Ski Lodge – I Would Die to Be
5. Murder Mystery – Problems
6. XTC – Day In Day Out
7. Peggy Sue – Song & Dance
8. Devon Williams – All My Living Goes to You
9. Papas Fritas – My Revolution
10. Radiation City – The Color of Industry
11. The Liminanas – (I've Got) Trouble in Mind
12. The Brian Jonestown Massacre – Hide and Seek
13. Music Machine – The People in Me
14. The Fresh & Onlys – I Would Not Know the Devil
15. Pale Saints – Fell from the Sun
16. Cymbals Eat Guitars – Keep Me Waiting
17. Grandaddy – Chartsengrafs
18. Destroyer – Savage Night at the Opera
I'm not even going to write it this week, but you know what I'm talking about. Liner notes after the jump.
1. Zumpano! – The Party Rages On
Before the New Pornographers took over, Carl Newman fronted Vancouver's Zumpano! who put out two records with Sub Pop in '90s. This is from 1995's Look What the Rookie did. Both are out of print and likely to stay that way if Newman has his way — he considers them "a part of my past. I feel like it was a learning process" — so don't feel to0 bad about downloading them from some less than legal means. They both good, but Newman has a point…he definitely got better.
2. Allo Darlin' – Darren
New single from Allo Darlin' is a tribute to Darren Hayman who fronted the much-loved Hefner in the late '90s/early '00s. The b-side is a cover of "The Wu-Tang Clan" which was by Hayman's post-Hefner band, The French.
3. Future Bible Heroes – Hopeless
The second half of the '90s were an especially creative period for Stephin Merritt. In addition to cranking out records as Magnetic Fields, he also made albums as The 6ths (with a cavalcade of superstar indie guest vocalists), The Gothic Archies and what we have here, Future Bible Heroes. This was (is?) a project with Chris Ewen of Figures on a Beach and it was more of an '80s John Hughes type vibe and a little more polished than his other stuff. Mag-Field mainstay Claudia Gonson takes lead vocals on this one.
4. Ski Lodge – I Would Die to Be
This a new-ish band from here in Brooklyn whose debut EP is due out in a couple weeks on Dovecote records. There's a Beach Fossils approach to the arrangement of this song, but melodically it's more from the Smiths lineage of indiepop. Really good don't you think?
5. Murder Mystery – Problems
This song made me think of Future Bible Heroes, which is why that band is on this week's mix. Murder Mystery have been around since the mid-'00s and were always more twangy indie rock, but have reinvented themselves as a synthpop band… and, amazingly, they're all the better for it. Can't wait to hear the new album (which I think they're finishing up as we speak).
6. XTC – Day In Day Out
When it comes to XTC, I am a Team Colin man. He may have only got (or come up with, if Andy Partridge is to be believed) a couple songs per record…but they were usually the best songs. This is from 1979's Drums and Wires, which is probably my favorite XTC album. I always thought somebody should sample the bassline on the intro.
7. Peggy Sue – Song & Dance
Yay, new Peggy Sue! Everything about them is just a little askew: the rhythms, the harmonies, the guitars. In a wonderful way, of course. The new album is Acrobats and was produced by John Parish of PJ Harvey fame. Less acousticy this time out.
8. Devon Williams – All My Living Goes to You
Devon Williams is a veteran on the indiepop scene. He used to front Osker in the late '90s and then was a member of Lavender Diamond who a lot of people got excited about maybe five years ago. This is from his new solo album, out momentarily on Slumberland. Epic pop on a budget?
9. Papas Fritas – My Revolution
Much-missed twee charmers, I was lucky to have seen Papas Fritas a handful of times back in the day, including a very memorable Other Music in-store. This is from their first album. Tony Goddess wrote and sang most of the band's songs, but this one is from supertall bassist Keith Gendel. Some of the best ba-bah-dahs ever.
10. Radiation City – The Color of Industry
Somebody on Twitter told me to check out Radiation City, that I'd like them, and I do. But they also told me they sound like the Cardigans which I get where they're coming from but don't really hear. Maybe just little bit on this one. The horns are nice.
11. The Liminanas – (I've Got) Trouble in Mind
This is the a-side to this French ensemble's new single which was only available at the merch table of their recent tour. It may be my favorite song they've done yet, and was certainly a highlight of their live shows.
12. The Brian Jonestown Massacre – Hide and Seek
DiG! was the best and worst thing to happen to Anton Newcombe. The must-see documentary brought loads of attention to The Brian Jonestown Massacre but mainly from people wanting to see him self-destruct on stage. The BJM tend toward long pointless jams these days but they were capable of some pretty great psych-pop. Much of which can be heard on their new singles collection.
13. Music Machine – The People in Me
The Music Machine were a paisley-ish garage band from L.A. who lasted four years in the late '60s. This is from a MOJO compilation CD, I think. MOJO CDs used to be great…what happened? I digress. Very Strawberry Alarm Clock, thanks in big part to that farfisa organ.
14. The Fresh & Onlys – I Would Not Know the Devil
The Fresh & Onlys have slowed down to a trickle of releases lately, meaning this single is only the third thing the band have released in 2011.
15. Pale Saints – Fell from the Sun
The Pale Saints only lasted two real albums but they are amongst the best, most overlooked, of the early '90s. I highly recommend you get both 1990's The Comforts of Madness (which this is from) and 1992's In Ribbons. Saw them open for Ride at DC's old 9:30 Club…what a show.
16. Cymbals Eat Guitars – Keep Me Waiting
Resurrecting '90s indie rock in new enough ways that you're not playing spot-the-reference like you are with (eminently likeable) Yuck, Cymbals Eat Guitars are set to release their second album, Lenses Alien (not to be confused with Alien Lanes), in a couple weeks. It's pretty damn good as you can hear on this track. One of the pre-order packages comes with a custom-built fuzz pedal!
17. Grandaddy – Chartsengrafs
I love Grandaddy, saw them more than a few times in the early '00s. Still remember their guitarist who smiled through every show. The Software Slump just got reissued with a bonus disc's worth of b-sides and demos.
18. Destroyer – Savage Night at the Opera
I'm pretty sure Destroyer's Kaputt is still the album to beat in my Best of 2011 race. Somebody might do it, but Dan Bejar currently has the throne. And when you play the game of thrones, you win or you die!
Tags: allo darlin', brian jonestown massacre, cymbals eat guitars, destroyer, devon williams, Fresh & Onlys, future bible heroes, grandaddy, Limiñanas, murder mystery, music machine, pale saints, papas fritas, peggy sue, radiation city, ski lodge, stephin merritt, xtc, zumpano


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In Limerick, Ireland, the Limerick City Gallery of Art is hosting an exhibition of artist Enda O'Donoghue, whose work focuses on "forensic interest in the medium and process of painting and an ongoing dialogue with the mediation of images through digital technology."
One of the works in the show is 'Reno,' above, from 2011. Enda, who I do not know personally, was wandering around the internet and spotted a phonecam snapshot I took of slot machine players in the Reno, NV airport. I'm pretty sure I shot it in 2005, but it may have been earlier. Anyway, he asked if I'd mind if he created a painting from the low-rez jpeg, and I said, sure, go for it. What an amazing thing!
Hovering between the realms of abstraction and representation, between the mathematical encoded and the organic, O'Donoghue's paintings are the result of a process which is highly analytical and methodical and yet inviting of errors, misalignments and glitches. The imagery comes almost exclusively from found photographs sourced from the Internet, where O'Donoghue plays with random throw-away moments of everyday life, merging them together in various interconnected themes. In O'Donoghue's work, the painterliness of his technique works with the disposable nature of his subjects to make the work sometimes poignant and melancholic, or alternatively brittle and harsh. His work is deeply influenced by the digital high speed reality we now live in and he transports these seemingly meaningless sound-bite images from a place of apparent futility to one that questions and searches for meaning through the transformative act of painting.


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We All Feel It
You could tell the moment that you saw Humana (HUM) jump 5 into the bell, and then another 5 after it, that the growth guys had found still one more recession-proof domestic security name they loved. It was just classic. We read every day that the government is trying to rein in Medicare, and we actually believe it. But then, when they have a chance to actually save some money, they give it away and allow the so-called enemy -- the health maintenance organizations (HMOs) -- a chance to recoup a huge amount of money.
At this juncture, that was very important in the market because the rest of the recession-proof domestic security names had run so much that we needed more heroes, and the government instantly provided them....245 more words left in this article. To read them, just click below and try Real Money FREE for 14 days.
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Woodbury girls swimming & diving: Royals send five to state in six events, takes second in Section 3AA
Woodbury's Taylor Brooks just needed to believe in herself.
In one of many highlights for the Royals on the night, Brooks edged out senior teammate Sydney Swanson in the 100-yard backstroke with a time of 58.44 seconds, which bested the previous pool record of 59.56 seconds. Swanson also beat the pool record with a time of 58.68 seconds as the pair finished 1-2 to secure spots at the state meet.
"I just started to believe in myself," Brooks said. "Then when I got the time it showed me that I'm able to do it. My coaches believed in me, but I never believed in myself, so when I did get the time it was so emotional and I was so shocked that I had that in me."
Brooks beat her personal best time in the 100 backstroke by three seconds and the accomplishment left her teary-eyed on the podium.
"That's also the Junior Olympic cut (time) and that was my goal and I didn't know I was going to get it today," Brooks said. "My mom was crying and it made me feel really proud because my mom never really cries when I swim. So when she cried it made me really emotional."
Brooks also swam the lead leg of the 200-yard medley relay for the Royals - which opened the meet by breaking the pool record, a school record and the section record with a winning time of 1:48.33. Woodbury already held the section record time of 1:49.88, which was set in 2007 by some of the current relay team member's older sisters.
Brooks, along with junior Ana Sortland, eighth-grader Lucia Rizzo and senior Kristina Swanson won the event by more than a second over Rosemount. Sortland and Swanson's sisters – Britta and Jessica, respectively - swam on the 2007 relay team that set the previous section record.
In all, Woodbury will be sending five swimmers to the state meet – which will be held Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, Nov. 18-20, at the University of Minnesota Aquatic Center – in six events.
"I think the environment here on Friday is just a bigger deal," Royals head coach Michelle Liedner said. "The crowd gets into it, the girls get into it and they know this is where they have to perform to move on to the next level."
Brooks also took second in the 50 free with a time of 24.78 to punch a ticket to state and helped the Royals' 200 freestyle relay team – along with Rizzo, Sortland and Kristina Swanson – make the state cut time by finishing in 1:39.78.
Sortland also reached the state meet in the maximum four events. In addition to medley relay and the 200 free relay, Sortland went on to out-touch Rosemount's Olivia Johnston in the 100 breaststroke with a time of 1:05.04 to win by 0.15 seconds.
"That was really good that she pushed me because I don't know if I would have gotten the time I did without that," Sortland said.
Johnston had edged Sortland earlier in the meet in the 200-yard individual medley by nearly two seconds. Sortland, who will be making her third trip to the state meet, also qualified for state in the event.
Also earning honors for Woodbury was Lieder, who was named the Section 3AA Head Coach of the Year and Woodbury's Rick Light, who earned the Section 3AA Diving Coach of the Year.
-Nick Gerhardt


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In spite of high cost, longer-acting, injectable therapeutic antimicrobials such as Draxxin can extend the window of treatment duration, thereby reducing the incidence and severity of bovine respiratory disease, according to K-State researchers. They also note that use of feed-based metaphylaxis programs, such as therapeutic administration of multiple 5-day pulses of Aureomycin in conjunction with an injectable metaphylaxis program may be a cost-effective way to improve bovine respiratory disease therapy without having to physically handle and stress cattle.
To evaluate these programs, the researchers conducted a 55-day receiving study at the Kansas State University Beef Stocker Unit to determine the response of high-risk stocker calves to concurrent metaphylaxis with Draxxin and Aureomycin. All cattle were sourced from an order buyer in
Diets included one of the following three treatments:
- No top-dress pellets (control).
- Feed top-dressed with Aureomycin-containing pellets (10 mg chlortetracycline per pound of body weight) on days 8 to 12, 14 to 18, 20 to 24, and 26 to 30 post-arrival.
- Feed top-dressed with Aureomycin pellets on days 0 to 4, 6 to 10, 12 to 16, 18 to 22, and 24 to 28 followed by 25 days of administration of AS-700, which provided 350 mg/head per day of both chlortetracycline and sulfamethazine.
The researchers found no significant differences among treatments in the percentage of steers treated once, twice, or one or more times for bovine respiratory disease. There also were no significant differences in daily gain, daily dry matter intake, or feed efficiency among the three treatments.
The researchers concluded that in this study there was no benefit of feeding Aureomycin for four 5-day periods after receiving when calves were mass medicated with Draxxin upon arrival.