text:
*Note: This was written around the time the PS4 was released. My thoughts or opinions possibly have changed. Please still enjoy reading!*
Greatness awaits! Although, we aren't waiting anymore! After many days of anticipation for the eventual release of PS4, it's finally here so I'll be giving you my thoughts after having the console for a whole week! I'll be discussing the actual controller and the console itself. Let's start with the controller!
Dual Shock 4:
You might recall that I said this statement on November 2nd, 2013 in part 3 of our Xbox One vs. PS4 series,
"By now you've probably heard of all the fancy new features on the new controllers for PS4 and Xbox One. The Track-pads, share buttons, 'Day One' engravings, and rumble triggers but that's only part of it. Because after all of those high-tech bells and whistles, all that really matters with a controller is how it feels."
I'm glad to report that this controller feels absolutely fantastic. There's a subtle grip on the back to prevent your hand from slipping and the reaction to how great this controller feels is apparent from the very start. Everything feels better than the previous iteration, the triggers, the grip, the weight and much more. The days of accidently hitting the triggers on Dual Shock 3 are over because for Dual Shock 4, the triggers are much improved. While the controller is a improvement on the previous generation, there's a few problems that came with the Dual Shock 4.
There's two major gripes I have with the controller. You may notice that there's a quite large area for a light to shine on the back of the controller and it constantly reflects off of the tv. It's doesn't affect my actual gaming but it's definitely apparent that it is there. I wish there was an option to disable it but unfortunately I haven't found a way, and it's highly unlikely that it can be a feature that is added in the future. The second problem I have with the controller is the placement of the option and share button. The option button is in an awkward position that I'm not used to at all and it feels like they just squeezed it in there. I've ended up hitting the actual touch pad several times thinking that it was the location of the options button. Maybe I'll get used to it eventually but for now it just feels awkward. Now that I've said the few issues I had with it, one thing I was actually surprised with, was the touch pad. It's super responsive and it works well. I don't have to move my hand very much to reach it and in Killzone: Shadow Fall it works well. Overall, the controller is a vast upgrade on it's previous iteration that has just a few issues.
PS4 Console:
Referring back to a previous post yet again, I said this in our Xbox One vs. PS4 finale,
"When both of these consoles were announced, I was a bit disappointed with the design of each console. They're just too boxy for my taste. They lack the style and class that the Xbox 360 and PS3 both have."
While I'm still not the biggest fan of the design, I've become more open to it and have started to enjoy it more and more each day. It's incredibly small for how much power it can handle and when you include the slit across the middle of the console, it's not bad looking at all. There's been a few complaints how the console wobbled due to issues when the factory actually made the console but I've had no issues with it. There were a lot of issues being reported the day of launch and I immediately became very worrisome. Luckily, I didn't encounter any problems at all besides server issues which is expected the first day of a console launch.
As with the Dual Shock 4, I have a few issues with the console though. The slit in the console is used to show the state of the console. When the console is powered on, it glows blue and while it's off, it glows orange. Every now and then it glows white although I still haven't figured out for what reason, it may mean standby mode but I'm not exactly sure. Either way, the problem I have with it is that it glows while it's off and for people like me who have their console in their bedroom, it causes a minor problem. It's not a huge problem but it's more of a annoyance than anything. The final complaint I have with the console is the actual power button. It's too small and most don't even notice it at all. I usually resort to turning off the console through the Dual Shock 4 but the few times I actually use the power button, I have to place my finger on it for 5 seconds before it actually turns off. I don't know why it takes so long, but it's bothersome. One other positive note is that the Dual Shock 4 connects almost instantaneously to the console. Within half of a second of you pressing the power button on the controller, it's connected. It's a subtle feature that may go unnoticed with most but nevertheless, I enjoy it. Regardless of the few issues this console has, the console's design is warming up to me, it's incredibly small, and it's the games that really matter.
That's my thoughts on the Dual Shock 4 and the PS4 Console, but you have opinions too! Leave your thoughts in the comments below, and let me know what you thought of mine.
I write for my own blog and just post that content onto IGN's blogs but I would appreciate if you would check out the blog directly here: http://8bitchimp.wordpress.com/! Thanks for reading and please follow 8BitChimp on all of it's social media outlets!
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text: The Tornado T2M from Colchester-Harrison is a compact three-axis turning center designed to handle small, complex parts. The machine features a full C axis, spindle disc brake, and driven tooling for radial and axial milling, drilling, boring and tapping. To reduce setup and programming times, the turning center combines the FANUC OiTD control system and the Colchester-Harrison Manual Guide i for conversational programming. According to the company, the machine can complete many machining processes in one cycle.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 09:45 AM
OceanEcosystem (275 posts)
Question for the older generation....
Have American politics always been this nasty and mean-spirited? Or is this nastiness a relatively recent thing?
I've read the view of some who say yes, it's recent, and have heard others insist, no, it's always been this way.
By the way, I would prefer for this thread not to devolve into "It's the fault of Republicans/conservatives/Fox News/corporations/Tea Party/racists, etc." We have plenty of those threads already, and that's not my point. Plus, I've seen instances of liberals being hateful and mean-spirited, too. The point of this thread is, has it always been this way, or not?
108 replies, 6066 views
|108 replies
Question for the older generation.... (Original post)
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Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 09:48 AM
Cooley Hurd (26,877 posts)
1. not in my lifetime
My memory goes back as far as Nixon. And I remember the 1972 election and it was nothing like this.
Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #1)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 09:53 AM
WinkyDink (49,335 posts)
5. Do you not remember 1968?!? BOBBY WAS ASSASSINATED! And in '72 WALLACE WAS SHOT!
MLK was assassinated in 1968! The violence at the Democratic Convention was OFFICIALLY determined to be a police riot!
In 1972 Sen. Eagleton was excoriated and then dropped from the McGovern ticket for having been treated for depression.
Your memory sure wears rose-colored glasses.
Response to WinkyDink (Reply #5)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:20 AM
Cooley Hurd (26,877 posts)
11. I don't, unfortunately. You're talking about politics, though, and I think the OP was asking about..
...government. Politics is always a messy biz, but government shouldn't be. That's where modern Republicans have crossed line after line. Government isn't about what's best for everyone anymore because of it.
Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #11)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:23 AM
OceanEcosystem (275 posts)
13. Actually, I was referring to politics. n/t
Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #13)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:28 AM
Cooley Hurd (26,877 posts)
16. Oh. I thought you meant how government is operating...
My bad.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 09:49 AM
Angry Dragon (30,047 posts)
2. Do a google of the 1956 republican platform
and you may get a sense of how far politics have shifted
Follow the Money ............. answers many questions
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 09:50 AM
elehhhhna (31,239 posts)
3. No. Shit got crazy when they went after Clinton, imo
Response to elehhhhna (Reply #3)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 09:53 AM
WinkyDink (49,335 posts)
6. You must be younger than 35.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 09:50 AM
eilen (4,548 posts)
4. Like everything, it cycles. nt
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:00 AM
Progressive dog (4,505 posts)
7. The fringes have become the norms
Nixon, Goldwater, Johnson began to bring the nastiness mainstream.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:01 AM
WinkyDink (49,335 posts)
8. Hamilton and Burr had a deadly DUEL, fergawdsake. And does no-one recall these Dallas flyers?
Sec. of War Stanton spoke of the "painful imbecility" of Lincoln.
"Have American politics always been this nasty and mean-spirited?"
That would be an unqualified "Yes." Followed immediately by an unqualified "DUH."
Response to WinkyDink (Reply #8)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:19 AM
Laelth (20,977 posts)
10. +1. n/t
Response to WinkyDink (Reply #8)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:31 AM
Cooley Hurd (26,877 posts)
17. Well, in fairness, there was this flyer:
Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #17)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 12:19 PM
baldguy (36,649 posts)
34. Kennedy never allowed thousands of American civilians to be killed
And though you might argue that our involvement in Vietnam was unwise, he never started an illegal war based on nothing but lies.
And W didn't leave office with a new hole in his head.
Response to baldguy (Reply #34)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 12:44 PM
Cooley Hurd (26,877 posts)
41. Not disputing the myriad of differences between 44 and 43....
...but rhetoric can be heated on both sides.
Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #17)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 06:45 PM
WinkyDink (49,335 posts)
85. There's a mortal difference between the JFK one and this joke.
Response to WinkyDink (Reply #85)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 07:00 PM
Cooley Hurd (26,877 posts)
91. Yes, but the methods of supposed "exposure" are the same.
Uncomfortable truth, but in fairness, I compared the two back when...
Response to WinkyDink (Reply #8)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 04:16 PM
life long demo (1,110 posts)
62. WOW, I don't remember that.
I know there was a lot of rancor because Kennedy was Catholic.
Response to life long demo (Reply #62)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 06:51 PM
WinkyDink (49,335 posts)
86. BESIDES this, JFK was warned off Dallas because Adlai AND LADY BIRD were SPAT UPON there.
Adlai Stevenson in Dallas: http://nymag.com/news/frank-rich/jfk-2011-11/index1.html
"...the torrid atmosphere of political rage in Dallas, where both Lady Bird Johnson and Adlai Stevenson had been spat upon by mobs of demonstrators in notorious incidents before Kennedys fateful 1963 trip. As the time-traveling Epping gets settled in that past, he describes an inferno of seething citizens, anti-Semitic graffiti on Jewish storefronts, and angry billboards demanding the impeachment of Supreme Court Chief Justice Earl Warren and equating racial integration with communism."
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:14 AM
marybourg (4,531 posts)
9. FDR was called "Mr Rosenfelt"
And don't even want to think about the abuse Eleanor was subjected to.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:22 AM
A HERETIC I AM (16,793 posts)
12. As the others above have suggested...
there have been changes in tone, but not in spirit.
I was born when Eisenhower was still in office, just for perspective.
One thing that has changed is the fact that fewer Senators and House members keep homes in the DC area. When I lived in the area in the 60's and 70's, it was common for members of Congress to live in Bethesda or Georgetown or even out in Gaithersburg, in an area known as Washington Grove.
Living there most of the year meant they knew each other better and were closer friends, even though they might be political adversaries.
Response to A HERETIC I AM (Reply #12)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 04:16 PM
customerserviceguy (17,616 posts)
63. Interesting
I never thought of that. Train travel took a long time, and it was not practical to go back to the home district as often as one can today.
The most interesting phenomenon in the human experience has been the law of unintended consequences. Flying was thought to be a universal boon, but clearly, it has contributed at least just a little bit to the lack of civility in Congress.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:25 AM
hootinholler (26,449 posts)
14. "instances of liberals being hateful and mean-spirited, too."
Um really? Please provide a reference of this.
Seriously. Now.
Response to hootinholler (Reply #14)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 03:04 PM
RC (25,592 posts)
52. He's confusing today's Democrats with Liberals.
Most likely he means the 3rd Way and Republican-turned-Democrat, because the Democratic Party has moved so far to the Right.
Response to hootinholler (Reply #14)
Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:27 PM
OceanEcosystem (275 posts)
104. How about this instance?
Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #104)
Sun Feb 17, 2013, 02:27 PM
hootinholler (26,449 posts)
105. Really? Had to go back to 2004 to find one?
Plus how do you know the patrons are liberal, even though that really wasn't mean spirited.
The humanity!
Response to hootinholler (Reply #105)
Sun Feb 17, 2013, 02:45 PM
OceanEcosystem (275 posts)
106. Disagree. I think it was mean-spirited.
Imagine if a restaurant in an area known to be largely conservative had turned away the children of a prominent Democrat family and said they were full for the next four years, and the patrons had cheered.
I'm pretty sure you'd classify it as "mean spirited."
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:27 AM
Flashmann (2,140 posts)
15. Have American politics always been this nasty and mean-spirited?
I've been around since 1953,if that qualifies me as older generation...
I think the nastiness has always been there..In this age of 24/7 cable opinion/news,talk radio and,of course the internet,it's just so much more visible now....Though it does seem that same nastiness has filtered down to the "street level" Joe Sixpack folks,much more...
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:33 AM
Brewinblue (392 posts)
18. Today . . .
Goldwater would be a Blue Dog, at worst. He feared and detested the Christian Right as much as anyone on here. And he was our great Right Wing Bogeyman up until Reagan in 1976. And hell, even Reagan now looks like a Blue Dog
Nuff said!
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:37 AM
Oilwellian (12,647 posts)
19. It's usually a good idea not to dictate what we can and can't say
in response to your questions. Pointing out the fact that republicans have gone bat shit insane over the past several years, and are the source of "nasty" in American politics, is not devolving, it's merely exposing the reality we face today. I'm not sure what the point of your question is if we can't discuss why republicans are now incapable of governing this country.
Response to Oilwellian (Reply #19)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:48 AM
IDemo (16,926 posts)
22. Seconded
Response to IDemo (Reply #22)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 12:44 PM
OnionPatch (6,045 posts)
40. Yes. It's kind of hard to talk about it
without bringing up the media. IMO, there was never this much hatred between the sides before we had blatantly biased national "news" networks (of whom I will not name) and foaming-at-the-mouth, rightwing hysteria on every other radio station. It doesn't seem like that kind of blatant extremism had a place in the mainstream media until recently. (I'm 53.)
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:41 AM
IDemo (16,926 posts)
20. No (55 here)
I've been politically aware since Watergate made me the only liberal in an extended family of religious conservatives. The rhetoric and policy maneuvering during the 70's to early 90's might have been good for a forehead slap or two, but since Newt and Rush and the rest gained control of the microphones it's become the standard for the Right to first and foremost invoke outrage among Democrats. The level of discourse among both the 'leadership' and their puzzlingly incurious flock has frankly descended into junior high cafeteria food fighting.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:43 AM
Gidney N Cloyd (15,486 posts)
21. From politicaldictionary.com:
"politics aint beanbag"
A response to politicians who complain about the rough and tumble of the campaign trail, below-the-belt shots from their opponents or unfair treatment from the media.
It was first uttered by Mr. Dooley, an Irish-American character created by writer Finley Peter Dunne in an 1895 newspaper column. The full quote: Sure, politics aint bean-bag. Tis a mans game, an women, childer, cripples an prohybitionists d do well to keep out iv it.
So it's been going on a long time. Still, I have to say I've never seen any bunch of politicians dig their feet in like today's rethuglicans. And the thing is that much of this nastiness used to be confined to the campaigns, not to the day to day business of governing.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 10:48 AM
dmosh42 (2,192 posts)
23. These are the most polarized and mean-spitited times ever, and I was born in 1942.
In the 50s and 60s there was always bills being passed on a bipartisan basis. But once the corporations realized how they can manipulate the gov't, and 'rig' the system, it became as it is today. The record on filibusters and the number of times tells the story of how our leaders are mostly all crooks and follow the money.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:31 AM
Purplehazed (179 posts)
24. The nastiness quotient has increased.
Or at least social media makes it more visible. Look at the level of name calling in almost any topic here.
What certainly has changed is the ability to compromise. Elected folks seem to represent their parties fist and the electorate second. To move the nation forward there has to be some give and take. Endless stalemates do nothing.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:33 AM
Frustratedlady (10,977 posts)
25. It's always been crazy, but since the Tea Party, it seems to have
become much nastier and dangerous. I believe much of it comes back to racism and a black in the White House. With the social media so instant, the hate is able to spread much faster. Before, it was thru editorials or the 5:00 news.
Hopefully, the "good" will eventually replace the "hate" and we can get on with what's good for America. Fat chance, I know, but one can only hope.
Response to Frustratedlady (Reply #25)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 06:55 PM
WinkyDink (49,335 posts)
89. Please re-read my Post #5. I'd like to know how the present is more "dangerous" than 1968.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:37 AM
Zoeisright (8,339 posts)
26. Please give examples of liberals being
"hateful and mean-spirited".
Because you can't come up with them.
And to answer your question, repukes have always been nasty and cruel. Fux Noise gave them an outlet to spew their hate.
Finally, it IS the fault of repukes/teabaggers, etc. Just because you don't want to hear it doesn't mean it's not true. Those assholes are vile, racist, cruel, selfish, mean, deliberately ignorant, and backward.
Response to Zoeisright (Reply #26)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 12:13 PM
nolabear (25,812 posts)
31. Try being a Southerner on DU.
It can get mighty trying.
Response to Zoeisright (Reply #26)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 12:58 PM
ScreamingMeemie (68,918 posts)
42. Okay...
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:38 AM
FSogol (34,104 posts)
27. BULLSHIT: "Plus, I've seen instances of liberals being hateful and mean-spirited, too."
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:43 AM
ananda (17,911 posts)
28. It was just as nasty in previous years.
I grew my political wings in Dallas in the sixties, during the Civil Rights, fluoride, and Medicare era, and talk about hate and craziness ... it was mean, ugly, hot and intense. But there were also beautiful, inspiring moments because of the Kennedy's and LBJ and a few others. Jane Fonda was on the stage working to end the Vietnam War, and the music was fantastic!
Dallas was like a cauldron simmering and seething with a mixture of the whole mess. It was horrible and wonderful at the same time... you know, the best of times and the worst of times. Gotta love that Dickens for sure!
I remember General Walker, the crazy loon, with his confederate uniform and pistols, standing in his doorway yelling and shooting. Also, the John Birch Society was in its prime there. When I was in eighth grade, I had to debate a position against the United Nations, and my mother was no help because she was a diehard liberal and loved the UN, Eleanor Roosevelt, and Adlai Stevenson. So she took me to the John Bircher mother of one of my brother's classmates who had lots of brochures and pamphlets against the UN; and get this, even though we were for the UN, my partner and I won the debate. Too weird. The pastor of my parish was also a John Bircher, and every week in the bulletin a whole page was devoted to "J Edgar Hoover Says," and that pastor was a mean, crazy loon too.
Then there was the time during the primaries when LBJ and Ladybird were in a parade in downtown Dallas and people were yelling at them, throwing stuff, and spitting on them.. because of Civil Rights.
And don't forget, all the bigotry and hate in other states too. Steinbeck described it tellingly on one of his trips (I'm thinking America and Americans, but it might have been Travels with Charley). His accurate portrayal of the Louisiana and Mississippi "Cheerleaders" was so amazing, disturbing, and effective. Plus in the late fifties I believe, there was Edward R Murrow's "Harvest of Shame," a fine segue on The Grapes of Wrath.
Do we even have journalists and broadcasters like that any more?
Response to ananda (Reply #28)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 01:05 PM
CanSocDem (2,968 posts)
44. The 'good ol' days' eh....
...when the lines were clearly drawn. Political activists were, in my experience, quite rare. Occasionally I'd come across them hitchhiking through the USA. The "far-rightists" would usually start slow and it would sometimes take hours before they started the kind of inflamed rhetoric that is the starting point today.
A like-minded stranger who shared common social values over a cup of coffee might lean in and whisper "I think I'm a communist...!!"
When I stumbled into Haight Asbury in June 1967, all of that changed. We were all 'communists' and unafraid to say so. And through the early 70's many social myths were challenged and defeated. There was an impetus for social revolution that was stymied by the industrial ruling class that is still saying after all these years, to an ever more compliant audience, "We can give you a better life than these pot smoking hippies".
The Social Revolution just needs better marketing.
Response to CanSocDem (Reply #44)
Sun Feb 17, 2013, 06:00 AM
love_katz (1,234 posts)
102. + 1,000,000,000,000
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:54 AM
Paladin (16,630 posts)
29. It's Been Ugly, Before. But Now It's Organized And Applied, To A Whole Other Depth.
Sure, there have been nasty incidents and movements in the past, and God help us, there have been way too many political assassinations. But the present-day, organized toxicity of the right wing in this country---and the required response from what remains of the left---is the worst I've ever witnessed in my 62 years. There isn't even an effort made to disguise it, anymore. I'm scared to death of what may have to happen to bring us out of this tailspin.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 12:10 PM
OregonBlue (5,366 posts)
30. I don't think it's any worse than it was in the past, the difference is 24 hour news and hate radio.
When they got rid of the "fairness doctrine" everything changed. Now the media feels free to lie with impunity. For those that think it's worse, remember the 60's. Remember they assassinated John Kennedy and Bobby Kennedy and Martin Luther King. And yes, that was all about politics. Remember the John Birch Society and the KKK.
I'm 63. I remember lots of horrible stuff. It just didn't get the coverage it does now. We used to have to actually read newspapers and talk with friends to get our news. ABC, CBS, NBC was where we got our nightly dose of news and that for only 1/2 an hour at a time and networks were required to present each side as fairly as possible.
Response to OregonBlue (Reply #30)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 12:31 PM
Egalitarian Thug (12,448 posts)
39. Certainly a significant factor, but the never-ending election cycle effects what
is being done more than the news, I think. Money has thoroughly halted the process of governing.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 12:17 PM
Overseas (12,113 posts)
32. Sorry, but the decades-long right wing propaganda campaign and media changes are a big part
of the dysfunction we see today. Yes, you can find scurrilous comments by one party or candidate against another throughout US history, but the most important change has been the determined campaign by corporations and right wing billionaires to push our government to the right, using media, PR and political influence (campaign contributions).
Yes it would be comforting to think it has always been this way; nothing to see here; move along.
But that's not true.
Check out the Powell memo and think about what has happened since it was issued in 1971: http://reclaimdemocracy.org/powell_memo_lewis/
For a great analysis of how deliberate the changes to US media have been, Eric Alterman's book "What Liberal Media?" is definitely worth reading. Here's an article based on it: http://www.thenation.com/article/what-liberal-media
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 12:17 PM
oldhippie (3,249 posts)
33. Would a duel to the death be considered nasty and mean spirited?
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 12:20 PM
Dyedinthewoolliberal (9,753 posts)
35. Always
you can google it and find numerous examples going all the way back to Thomas Jefferson's day.
By the way, a true Liberal cannot be hateful and mean spirited. If they were they'd be Conservative That's an oxymoron!
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 12:20 PM
OldDem2012 (3,526 posts)
36. Yes, it's always been this way. Read some history. nt.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 12:26 PM
cbrer (1,831 posts)
37. Politics has always been a dirty business
But what seems to have changed to me is the blatant blending of big business and political leadership. And the attendant policies to favor big business. They don't even care who sees it or gets screwed by it. It also seems to me that both parties enact policies favoring big business.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 12:28 PM
Egalitarian Thug (12,448 posts)
38. It has always been nasty, but election season used to end.
There are newspapers and political posters from the 19th century that are shocking by today's standards and candidates did and said absolutely appalling things to and about each other. But then, most of them would go to work and get something done until the next primary season.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 01:03 PM
Dan (949 posts)
43. how would you define "older"?
Response to Dan (Reply #43)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 01:07 PM
OceanEcosystem (275 posts)
45. People who can recall how US politics used to be before, say, 1980 or 1990. N/t.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #45)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 05:21 PM
OldDem2012 (3,526 posts)
75. Based on the watered down version of US History taught is schools these days....
...it's no wonder you know nothing about the subject.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 01:08 PM
OldHippieChick (1,635 posts)
46. Though it is tempting to say
things have gotten nastier, this discussion is not complete w/out remembering the McCarthy era and blacklisting. That was particularly nasty - and frankly more hateful. The VietNam era was also very ugly and certainly made its way into the street. Going to a protest and staring at the receiving end of a sawed-off shotgun makes today's disagreements seem almost genteel.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 01:17 PM
graham4anything (11,464 posts)
47. Aaron Burr vs. Alexander Hamilton for starters.
Two of the founding fathers had a duel and one killed the other.
Politics is by definition a nasty sport.
However, we have not had the obstructionism the republicanlibertarianteaparty have done.
That is unheard of.
Like it or not, politics in the US also has always been bipartisian and behind closed doors.
Now the 24/7/365 media does not allow compromise.
Get rid of the media and things would be better.
Transparency is what broke it and it sucks.
As for democratic fracture 1968, 1980,2000,2004 all should have been won.
(winning=getting seated).
1968 btw, liberals ate their own, when they tossed the biggest liberal ever President into the river over and insured Nixon would win. (BTW, HHH would have been the nominee most likely even if Bobby didn't die, but had LBJ stayed in the race, Bobby could be alive today).
And look at 1960 for when dirty tricks and stolen elections led to who knows which actually won the race. It is all sides when it comes to dirty
A winner does what a loser won't- that is get seated.
Response to graham4anything (Reply #47)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 06:53 PM
WinkyDink (49,335 posts)
87. See Post #8 ;-)
Response to WinkyDink (Reply #87)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 06:55 PM
graham4anything (11,464 posts)
88. Yup!
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 01:21 PM
graham4anything (11,464 posts)
48. It would btw, be interesting to know the round number age wise of posters
over 54
because perspective is different depending on what age one is in.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 02:17 PM
Tierra_y_Libertad (50,414 posts)
49. "Getting into politics is like stepping in dogshit." From The Motorcycle Diaries.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 02:34 PM
Igel (26,025 posts)
50. Poor question gets poor answers.
Have the worst utterances been as bad as they are now?
Sure. At times.
Has it been as widespread among the fervent supporters of a party as it is now?
Sure. At times.
Has it been as widespread in the media?
Even to that, sure. Individual publishers have used the media as their mouthpieces at times.
However, has it been as widespread among politicians interactions with each other?
Rarely. Now politicians are on the record all they time, and they have to play to their fervent supporters. Now to interact with an opponent as would have been the standard 50 years ago is to be branded a traitor, to be outed, and to be pilloried by the true believers.
Has it been as widespread in society as it is now?
Rarely. Consumers of public media were rarer in the past. Now we are logged in 24/7 to our own private channels. Public media doesn't play to the public. It plays to a hundred of different sub-publics, and each little group is self-reinforcing.
Is it as accepted in common discourse as it is now, occupying as much time as it does now?
Rarely. So you get far more over-the-top utterances than before. Moments of disrespect are now routine lifestyles.
Has it ever been as hypocritical as it is now?
Probably not. We've routinized the hypocritical. Instead of recognizing cat calling as hyperbole we take it as Gospel truth. We can't accept--and that's neither "we" (D), (R), liberals, conservtives, libertarians, etc., etc.--that our side says anything non-factual or hypocritical or that the other side(s) could possibly say anything factually true or not hypocritical.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 02:48 PM
aristocles (594 posts)
51. I'm 64
It's always been nasty, brutish, and vile.
The nature of democracy.
Response to aristocles (Reply #51)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 04:39 PM
Auntie Bush (17,479 posts)
69. Lucky you...one more year and you can get SS!
Response to Auntie Bush (Reply #69)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 07:14 PM
WinkyDink (49,335 posts)
96. Can get it at 62.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 03:11 PM
Blue_In_AK (46,429 posts)
53. It was pretty bad back in the late '60s
The Vietnam War and civil rights unrest, tanks in Detroit, etc. it was pretty bad back then.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 03:12 PM
Moonwalk (2,322 posts)
54. There have been nasty times--McCarthy Era, for example, and long before the Burr/Hamilton duel...
...there were stories to politicians getting into bare-knuckle brawls. Those bewigged gentlemen were astonishingly nasty, physically striking each other on the floor of congress and spreading the worst sort of gossip during campaigns. And there's a particularly nasty story that happened a few years before the Civil War of an abolitionist congressman who was attacked by a pro-slavery congressman; after all the other congressmen had left, he snuck up on the abolitionist and stuck him with a silver cane, beat him so bad the cane broke. He left the poor man hospitalized and with PTSD (obviously, the man didn't know he had that, but he did)--so terrible he couldn't go back to serving in office. And then this pro-slavery congressman went back and crowed about what he'd done and was hailed as a hero by his constituents.
Come to that, pre-20th century politics was pretty brutal. We're talking mobs who would beat, tar-and-feather, even lynch those of opposing political parties. Pro-British fractions were beaten, whipped, burned out of homes during revolutionary times. And abolitionists suffered the same before the civil war. And laws kept voters from voting--legally or otherwise. Our current politics may be nasty, but we're astonishingly civilized by compare.
I think, as said by others, what makes politics now seem so very nasty is the complicity of the right-wing media and pundits and, yes, the internet, where cyber-bullies are able to say what they like with no fear of any consequences. Through the 60's and 70' and 80's and even 90's there were consequences for nastiness; voters and the media would say, "How rude!" if you went over the top, and so it was a losing rather than winning strategy. But once you got the Rush L. syndrome--where yelling and shouting and calling people names was taken as strength and power and cool and fun and right, where you could be a bully without consequences, and, in fact by being such you ended up rich, famous, popular and won votes for your side rather than vice versa...all that pretty much put an end to any check on political nastiness...and led us to our current free-for-all nastiness.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 03:21 PM
SheilaT (23,156 posts)
55. I am also 64. It's my opinion
that while there's always been a large degree of vileness in politics, in the past couple of decades it has gotten progressively worse. As others have pointed out, the presence of 24 hour news, the entire right-wing radio and TV presence, the willful ignorance of so many, and the overt funding of that ignorance has made a huge difference.
The nastiness has always been there. But it didn't have as strong a presence as it does now. There was also a time when after the Presidential election, almost all those who voted for the Other Guy would say, Okay, we have a new President now and I'll give him a chance. The nastiness was dialed down, and there was a lot of genuine bi-partisanship for a very long time.
I believe that the years leading up the the Civil War were comparable in utter nastiness and polarization to what we have now. But still, they did not have the kind of instant mass media that we have today.
Another hugely important thing to keep in mind, that absolutely affects all of this even though it's outside the political realm, is the constant presence of non news news. The Kardashians. A cruise ship. Steroids in sports. Even a missing child. Genuinely important news stories, such as bankers not being sent to jail for crashing the economy, are ignored in favor of some stupid wedding of a couple who split a month later, or the death of a has-been singer. I'm thinking Michael Jackson with that last, and with all due respect to the later Mr. Jackson, not only was he probably a pedophile, but his death did not warrant wall-to-wall news coverage.
Since I don't own a TV I miss most of this stuff. I actually did not figure out that all of the networks became The Michael Jackson Memorial Show when he died. As a consequence, I get my news and information more selectively. I watch Rachel. I listen to Amy Goodman's Democracy Now. I read a lot. I know what's going on in the world, but I've never seen Celebrity Apprentice or that singing show, American Idol. Lucky me.
Response to SheilaT (Reply #55)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 04:23 PM
customerserviceguy (17,616 posts)
65. It seems that when there is plenty to go around
there may be less nastiness. It's really only been in the post-WWII era that the US had enough strength in the economy to go a few decades without anything but relatively short recessions. About the time we hit the early 1970's, that unprecedented prosperity came to a halt, if not a severe slowdown, and fighting over what was available came back into fashion.
Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #65)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 04:56 PM
SheilaT (23,156 posts)
71. That's an interesting point.
It does seem, based only on impressions and not actual research, that the post WWII era was a less nasty one in politics, and the nastiness mainly started ratcheting up around 1980, when ordinary workers really were beginning to lose ground. And of course, it's Saint Ronnie who single-handedly did the most to destroy labor unions when he fired the Air Traffic Controllers. I will NEVER forgive Lane Kirkland, then the head of the AFL-CIO for tolerating that.
Response to SheilaT (Reply #71)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 05:16 PM
customerserviceguy (17,616 posts)
73. I traced it to the Nixon era
His people were always dirty fighters, and there was the Dick Tuck "Band of Merry Pranksters" of that era as a counter-reaction. The latter half of the Seventies had a fair amount of prosperity, but there were tough times even before we found out about Watergate. I watched a re-run of an old "Good Times" episode, and that show constantly reminded America that not everything was rosy for everybody out there.
Nixon's time in office really reflected the divide and conquer strategy of "us vs. them", with his code phrases like "Law and Order" and "Peace with Honor". We got away from that a bit when Ford didn't antagonize people unnecessarily (if you don't include the pardon) and Jimmy Carter tried to rebuild bridges between the parties.
Even the impeachment proceedings against Nixon were a nominally bipartisan affair, and it was finally Republicans who went to him to tell him it was all over. They were from the old school of trying to make progress for the country, and they knew that a full Senate trial would damage that.
Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #65)
Sun Feb 17, 2013, 06:03 AM
graham4anything (11,464 posts)
103. thats what happened when democratic voters tossed LBJ the most liberal president ever, out
LBJ would have beaten Nixon in 1968 and continued with the amazing social issues he rammed through.
Nixon started the Bush age.
However, 1960 had dirt on both sides and to this day, no one knows who actually won in 1960.
But had LBJ ran, Bobby would have run in 1972 and 1976 and everything would have been different.
Democratic fracture caused 1968, 1980, 2000, 2004.
Shame really.
But its been dirty since day one.
Look what Lincoln had to go through.
Look at the snide, sarcastical Jefferson who wrote "All men are created equal" yet forgot blacks, slaves and well, all women in his statement.
I don't call that very nice myself.
And all the others were just as down and dirty today.
the fabled Tip ONeill/Reagan was done in private, no cameras, no media, hashed out
Transparency and 24/7/365 sucks. I for one wish it went back to the days when one could freely negotiate with the other side and work for the nation, not obstruct and do nothing because the media is covereing every damn minute of it.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 03:23 PM
bemildred (90,061 posts)
56. Often, but not always.
Usually bickering indicates things are not going well (which is often since we are poorly governed) and we are arguing over who is to blame.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 03:42 PM
s-cubed (1,367 posts)
57. I am 67 . It has gotten nastier.
I know if you read history you can find a lot of nastiness: duels, fights on the floor of congress, character assassination, etc. But my memory is that a lot of work got done in the Senate and in Congress. People on opposite sides were actually friends and did work for the good of the country. It's also true that there were truly moderate Republicans, and that's an oxymoron today. There have been academics who have looked at this and say Republicans have moved much further than have Democrats away from the center (sorry I don't have a link).
For now, this has paid off for the Republicans: I think they have come to the end of it working for them.
Response to s-cubed (Reply #57)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 04:30 PM
RebelOne (30,947 posts)
67. I am 74 and I agree with you. n/t
Response to s-cubed (Reply #57)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 05:08 PM
bananas (27,505 posts)
72. Obama and Chomsky agree - Obama would be considered a moderate Republican
"Obama: I Would Be Considered Moderate Republican In 1980s - ABC News"
"Noam Chomsky: Obama Would Have Been Called a Moderate Republican in Recent Decades"
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 03:44 PM
bhikkhu (10,422 posts)
58. Nixon I remember a bit - he was nasty as they get, but underhanded about it
which is just to say you wound up in the same place but you didn't know how you got there. The Carter/Reagan run was pretty nasty too, but again not so blatant. Repugs used to pretend to be decent people, but not so much anymore.
Its possible that they just weren't as bad in front of me when I was younger. Maybe the media is about the same, but as far as person-to-person general conversation, I didn't used to hear as much. Now, I just wish I could go a day without listening to racial jokes, "the lazy poor parasites" type commentary, and the kind of manufactured outrage that asshat hate-radio encourages.
Response to bhikkhu (Reply #58)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 06:59 PM
WinkyDink (49,335 posts)
90. "Underhanded"?! Nixon had a notorious "Enemies List"! He told Haldeman to "get me the names
of Jews" who had been big donors to the Democrats, so that "Could we please investigate some [expletive deleted]?"
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 04:08 PM
uppityperson (109,740 posts)
59. My 88 yr old father said never this bad. It has been bad, but not this bad ever.
Response to uppityperson (Reply #59)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 07:02 PM
WinkyDink (49,335 posts)
93. Surely he remembers the assassinations and attempts on JFK, RFK, MLK, Wallace, Ford, Reagan?
The police riots at the Democratic Convention in Chicago, 1968?
Today's name-calling is tiddly-winks in comparison to the VietNam-Watergate Era.
Response to WinkyDink (Reply #93)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 07:16 PM
uppityperson (109,740 posts)
97. Don't call him Shirley. Yes, he does, as do I. The bi-polarization has gotten much more extreme
is what he says. Yes, there have always been difference but he says the bi-polarization has become more extreme than he has ever seen. And I agree, in the yrs I've been aware, it has never been this bad.
I have only vague personal recollections of JFK, but MLK, RFK, all the rest I well remember. But the mean spiritedness has become SO prevalent now, so bad.
There have always been mean spirited and nasty people involved with politics, but there are so many now. The quantity. It takes me back to McCarthy days, though that was more paranoid than now.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 04:10 PM
life long demo (1,110 posts)
60. I remember during the 70's it was mean spirited, but I think
starting in the 80's it really got hateful. I don't remember what the election of 1980 was like but I do know we lost many good senators. I did have to look it up though.
In The election of 1980 we lost nine Democratic incumbent senators: Herman Talmadge (D-GA), Frank Church (D-ID), Birch E. Bayh II (D-IN), John Culver (D-IA), John A. Durkin (D-NH), Robert Morgan (D-NC), 1972 presidential nominee George S. McGovern (D-SD), Warren Magnuson (D-WA), and Gaylord Nelson (D-WI)
I don't remember anything from Eisenhower's time, my awareness of elections really started with John Kennedy.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 04:11 PM
customerserviceguy (17,616 posts)
61. There's a long tradition of nastiness in American politics
Look at the movie "Lincoln" to see how the various factions in Congress spoke to each other. It was an American tradition to make up fake scandals about your opponents, and get them out in whispering campaigns.
However, there is one difference between the USA of today and the one I spend my childhood and young adult life in (I'm 57). Back in those days, we had a small group of people called "editors" who controlled everything that was either printed, or broadcast on radio and TV. They set some standards, and those standards have gone out the window with the Wild West environment of cable news, talk radio and Internet websites.
I can see where you can get the impression that things were nicer a few decades ago, but there was always derogatory political talk, it just wasn't available on Twitter.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 04:21 PM
lumpy (13,704 posts)
64. In the past we have not been inundated and aware of such political nastiness, thanks to
the net, TV and general media. Been attentive to politics all my 84 years and I do believe political viciousness has reached it's highest peak because we have become a nation that condons that kind of behavior nationwide.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 04:29 PM
lunatica (34,069 posts)
66. Ooooo! I love open ended questions with 15 rules about what not to talk about!!!!
Now that's what I call Freedumb of Speech!
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 04:33 PM
Adsos Letter (17,486 posts)
68. I don't know that it has always continuously been this way, but
there have certainly been periods when politics were extremely nasty. The election of 1800, between Adams and Jefferson, was characterized by some pretty nasty rhetoric (check out Edward Larson's A Magnificent Catastrophe). http://www.amazon.com/A-Magnificent-Catastrophe-ebook/dp/B003YCQ3BG
And certainly, the years that began with the Missouri Compromise of 1850 and ended with Secession included increasingly nasty and violent political "discourse:" citizens of Kansas and Missouri committing acts of violence against each other; politicians brawling in Congress and entering the chambers armed with pistols and knives; Rep. Preston "Bully" Brooks attacking Sen. Charles Sumner with a cane while Sumner was seated at his desk in Congress (and then being flooded with gifts of canes with inscriptions like "Hit Him Again". Or any of the other brawls, physical and verbal, occurring in Congress during the run-up to Secession?
The political cartoon representations of Lincoln, Blacks, the Irish, etc.
Seems like those periods that fall under the broad definition of Culture Wars seem to bring out the worst in politics; perhaps we've been in an extended period of that since the 1960's.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 04:45 PM
nruthie (466 posts)
70. Good Lord, NO!
I'm 71, and I can assure you that it has not always been this nasty. I can remember when we could actually discuss politics without wanting to rip someone's head off if they disagreed with us. I hate to say it, but it's the whole bigotry thing that has steadily gotten worse and worse thanks to the pervasive element of 24-hour right-wing hate radio and Fox News. I trace it straight back to the advent of Rush Limbaugh and others of his ilk who have opened the gates to this terrible hatred that is so prevalent now. The media no longer does it's job...they're worthless shills for the corporations that pay them to create the news. The media and the politicans used to at least pretend that the country was their first priority....now they're shameless and don't even pretend to have any morals and allegiance to anything other than money.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 05:18 PM
Are_grits_groceries (16,751 posts)
74. Good lawd yes!
Before the Civil War SC Congressman Preston Brooks caned Senator Charles Sumner of Massachusetts.
Before that, read some of the names and literature that was printed. These are tame days compared to what rumors were spread.
We judge from our narrow slice of time. On the whole, it's always been down and dirty.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 05:25 PM
Warpy (95,337 posts)
76. Southern conservatives were always this hateful
It took "Christian" televangelists, Limbaugh, Pox News and the rest of the right wing shock jock infrastructure to spread it nation wide.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 05:25 PM
La Lioness Priyanka (53,866 posts)
77. umm there was a civil war at some point. i am going to guess things were more divisive then
just an educated guess.
Response to La Lioness Priyanka (Reply #77)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 07:03 PM
WinkyDink (49,335 posts)
94. HA! THE perfect response! Thank you!
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 05:31 PM
world wide wally (10,270 posts)
78. There has always been treachery and cut-throat tactics in our political history, however...
there was always an underlying desire of both parties to do what is best for the country. At least until now. The new dynamic seems to be power to the party first... fuck the welfare of the country. If we have to destroy people. or even the entire country in the process of getting power... then tough shit.. so be it.
(at least one party thinks that way, but you said you dint want to turn it into a partisan discussion)
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 05:37 PM
HooptieWagon (17,064 posts)
79. Have you heard of the Civil War? nt
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 05:40 PM
Revanchist (993 posts)
80. It has always been nasty
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 05:41 PM
OldDem2012 (3,526 posts)
81. Anything for a Vote: Dirty Tricks, Cheap Shots, and October Surprises.....
Anything for a Vote: Dirty Tricks, Cheap Shots, and October Surprises
"....an illustrated look at 200-plus years of dirty tricks and bad behavior in presidential elections from George Washington to G. W. Bush."
It took me more time to post it than it did to find it. Google is your friend...try it sometime.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 05:51 PM
WCGreen (45,558 posts)
82. I think it has always been like this but since we have 24/7 blanketed "news" now...
Stuff that would have remained at the local or regional level are now broad casted all across the country.
Ethnic radio stations in a lot of the larger metropolitan areas had a whole bunch of stuff going out over the airwaves in native tongues. Mass flayers with racial stuff targeted to specific neighborhoods.
As a matter of fact, Dennis Kucinich in his earlier days as a Cleveland Councilman was often accused of using this type of third party mailings. It just flew under the radar.
The stuff produced today is mild compared to some of the stuff that was done before media coverage was instant and universal.
Response to WCGreen (Reply #82)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 06:09 PM
mainstreetonce (2,447 posts)
83. Imagine if
the Internet was around during the Kennedy years...the stories about women...the conspiracy theories.
I think a lot of nastiness was there, but I didn't know about it.
My first political memory is the Eisenhower election.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 06:44 PM
dem in texas (1,730 posts)
84. Old political Junkie's Opinion
I am 73 years old and have followed politics for many years. On occasion, things would get hot and heated, but the moment would pass and everyone would be civil to each other. The real meanness started when Newt Gingrich came on the scene and people started watching him on C-Span. When he was chosen to be speaker of the house, he doubled down. That was the end of bipartisanship, what did we have next? Clinton's impeachment brought by old white republicans who had their own "lady" problems. This was when right wing radio and cable TV started getting popular. The right wing media pundits were glad to keep things going, it meant higher ratings for them and more advertising dollars for the radio and TV stations. I think we are seeing the end of this coming, ratings for Fox and Limbaugh are dropping like lead in water. People are tired of all the right name calling and I hope getting wise enough to see that they are being played like fools just to make more money for the media corporations.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 07:02 PM
Bigmack (8,020 posts)
92. Never been this bad...
Maybe I'm just projecting, but I have never seen this country so deeply divided. Never.
70 years old. Civil Rights... Vietnam... Those were divisive issues, don't get me wrong, but now is worse.
We have 2 countries... two countries that hate each other.
That stuff about projecting my own feelings onto this present situation...?
I know that I have never been this hostile... this pissed off. I was wondering if it was simply the fact that I'm getting older, but then I see Boner or Chinless Mitch or Grampy McPlanecrash on the TeeVee and I realize it ain't me... it's them.
Response to Bigmack (Reply #92)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 07:11 PM
WinkyDink (49,335 posts)
95. I strenuously disagree re: "worse than the VietNam divisiveness." That is the ORIGIN of "Reagan
Assassinations of political and Civil Rights leaders.
Riots, including the officially-designated police riot in Chicago, 1968.
Anti-war demonstrations.
Civil Rights demonstrations. Church-bombings, murders, beatings.
Campus uprisings and murders (Kent State, Jackson State).
Watergate, the hearings, and A PRESIDENTIAL RESIGNATION.
The Pentagon Papers.
Young men faced with war, prison, or Canada. 58,000 dead.
TODAY is more "divisive"?!?!
In that case, I hope never to see the LESS divisive days of the late 60's/early 70's again.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sat Feb 16, 2013, 07:22 PM
OceanEcosystem (275 posts)
98. OK, so it looks like there are more or less two schools of thought in this thread.
One group of posters holds the view that politics didn't use to be this unpleasant before, but now has become significantly nastier these days.....that political parties were more civil and bipartisan, even if only for a time.
The other group holds that it's always been this way - the difference now is that we have the Internet, more television, live in the information age, and as a result we're more aware of the nastiness that has always been there.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Reply #98)
Sun Feb 17, 2013, 01:02 AM
Adsos Letter (17,486 posts)
99. We may be more aware of it, for the reasons you state
but that period 1850-1861 stands out, I think. Despite our current level of nastiness, Congresspersons aren't entering chambers armed, engaging in brawls, or disabling each other with vicious beatings via cane.
These days you have to go to South Korea for that...
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:35 AM
LeftishBrit (38,572 posts)
100. While I am not qualified to make an overall assessment...
I know elderly people who left the United States in the 50s, due to McCarthyism. Short of actual civil war, I don't think that politics in a democracy could get much worse than that.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sun Feb 17, 2013, 05:40 AM
Berlum (7,044 posts)
101. No. Never this nasty
The Republicans began systematically pissing in the pot back in the 1980s, and have yet to snap out of their degenerate, anti-truth, anti-science, anti-reality, anti-decency, anti-ethical ass-spin.
They have devolved to a lower moral order, and tried desperately to drag all of America down with them into their cesspool of material corruption.
Thankfully, most Americans are still decent folk and eschew the Republican cesspool.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:33 PM
LWolf (45,999 posts)
107. I'm not sure if I count
as the "older" generation. I'm almost 53.
I was raised to leave politics and religion out of polite conversation. Times have changed.
I was raised to keep conversation polite, even if it included politics and religion, even if you disagreed with someone.
I was raised to disagree politely; verbal bullying and name calling were out of bounds. If I couldn't express myself politely, then I was to listen, and quietly change the subject. You know: "If you can't say something nice...", except that, in my family, it was "If you can't say something nicely..."
Public discourse has changed dramatically during my lifetime. I feel like it started in the 80s, with the deregulation of the media and the rise of corporate-owned "talk"/"hate" radio, that indoctrinated the nation into interpreting the first amendment to mean not just the right to be rude, the right to be verbal bullies, but that rudeness, mean-spiritedness, and verbal bullying should not just be a "right," but should be celebrated.
Response to OceanEcosystem (Original post)
Sun Feb 17, 2013, 03:44 PM
L0oniX (31,493 posts)
108. I was bad before but it went off the cliff with Reagan. n/t


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Christmas, Part 1 – Vintage
December 20th, 2013
These are the cards I made for the girls at work. They wanted traditional, and I decided to go with square cards this year.
The method was the same for all the cards. I had some lovely vintage style papers that were too nice to use as layering papers. They were larger than the cardstock so I trimed them to fit, edged with ink, and then adhered to the front. A paper flower and a sticky pearl were added to the front of each (different locations depending on the paper pattern).
I then used the paper offcuts inside and on the envelope to tie each piece together:
The other cards are below
2 Responses to "Christmas, Part 1 – Vintage"
I think the square format suits these quite well! I especially like the third one and the last one.


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Look smart and stylish in the classic Pierre Cardin range. All suits are made in a regular fit for comfort, and feature a 2 button jacket with notch lapel. We also offer a range of ties and shirts to complement your new suit.
50% Wool 50% Polyester
" So pleased to have found you great service excellent quality(suits)thanks!! "


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Here at Michael Anthony Contracting we strive to offer a full range of professional New Jersey new home construction, remodeling services, and inground pools design. Michael Anthony is licensed by the Department of Consumer Affairs as a construction subcode official, a title that recognizes us an expert in the construction field.
Whatever the scale of your project, we have a professional, clean and experienced crew ready to satisfy your specific needs. For your next new home construction, addition or remodel, NJ inground pools, put our craftsmen to work for you and see why our clients will settle for nothing less. To get more information or make an appointment for a complimentary evaluation, call 732.598.9773 or click here to contact us today.


text: Antonio "Tony" Hylton is the new CIO of Cook County, Ill., and will replace Catherine Maras O'Leary who resigned recently. Hylton is the president of Broadband Technology Associates of Aurora, Ill., and as technology advisor to the mayor of Aurora, was part of the technical team responsible for the architecture, business plan development and budget preparation of the citywide technology infrastructure. He also participates on four subcommittees of the Governor's Illinois Broadband Development Council and co-represents the city of Aurora on the Illinois Municipal Broadband Communications Assn. In addition Hylton is also a technology advisor to the Northeastern Illinois Communications Consortium, a group of public safety officials analyzing and determining the merits of a consolidated upgrade to the regional digital IP-based infrastructure for public safety.


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A restaurant experience like no other
Dining in the dark has been labeled both a sensory experience and a gimmick, but it's also liberating – and possibly messy.When you're submerged in darkness and no one is watching, you have license to play with your food. It doesn't take long before forks are cheerfully abandoned and you start eating with your hands, even if it's mashed potatoes. Go ahead and lick your fingers. Who cares? Letting go of formalities and experiencing the nuances of food and flavor is what dining in the dark is all about. And Market 17 in Fort Lauderdale is the first Broward restaurant I know of to offer it nightly. The 8-week-old restaurant devotes one small room to the experience. You can have a romantic evening for two or book a group of up to 16. (This is a hot reservation, so book early.) Market 17 co-owner Kirsta Grauberger said she first tried dining in the dark last summer in Amsterdam and "it was a highlight of our trip. It may sound odd or weird but until you've tried it, you don't know how cool it is." It's definitely cool. At some European restaurants, dining-in-the-dark staffers are blind or partially sighted. (Andrew Zimmerman features one, Germany's Blindekuh, on his website.) At Market 17, the server wears night-vision goggles as he orchestrates your meal. When one friend was nervous about being immersed in darkness, our waiter patiently dimmed the lights so she could see we were in safe surroundings, our table set with drinking glasses, tumblers for wine (forget handling stemmed glasses), forks and butter knives (no sharp utensils for obvious reasons). Before long, she relaxed and the lights went out. (Oddly, we found ourselves shutting our eyes while we ate, even though we couldn't see a thing.) Chef Dan Ramos' dining-in-the-dark menu is served mainly in bite-size pieces. It's a minimum of four courses ($55) – all chef's choice, though our server did ask about food allergies. Pairing food with wine, which I'd recommend, adds $15 per person. The novelty of the experience aside, the food was superb, with a dazzling array of textures and tastes. Ramos includes a fun crisp or crunchy item with each course. The idea is to be so focused on your food that you're able to discern what's on your plate, but Ramos likes to throw curve balls, like adding a "buzz button" or two to your first dish. It's a flower bud that tingles the tongue — even numbs it a bit. Our simple salad was a sensual pleasure — frizzy frisée lettuce, juicy heirloom tomatoes, briny Kalamata olives and crunchy pine nuts with a roasted shallot vinaigrette. We recognized the wine as a sauvignon blanc (Sbragia, of California). The next course was flavorful wild-caught sheepshead (another curve ball) served with a beluga-lentil risotto, sautéed kohlrabi (a cabbage cousin), leeks and other veggies along with a fruity Mohua pinot noir from New Zealand. The third course was deliciously tender grass-fed rib-eye from Ocala in a cabernet reduction, Russet potato puree, broccolini and the crunch — bone marrow sautéed with butter and herbs and served on a crostini — served with Three, a sturdy petite syrah. We really felt like kids when we got to dessert, devouring a plateful of bite-size treats like a white chocolate shell filled with a Key lime mousse (with a pomegranate sauce and crumbly passion fruit-rosemary-mint curd) and a PB&J-style sandwich with cashew butter and cherry sauce on toasted brioche, served with a late harvest Napa zinfandel (which none of us guessed). When our meal was over, we washed our hands with warm cloths and were ready to be led out of the darkness. The focus on wonderful food, wine and friendship – it was all enlightening.


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Sign up to receive our newsletters along with our monthly clearance updates, click here.
Dimensions: (72.50"W x 19"D x 18"H)
Four doors & three drawers.Premium soft-close hinges on doors. Under-mount soft-close slides on drawers. Drawer bottoms are lined with our signature brushed aluminum laminate.Married top: Bright White Solid Surface, integrated sink and top.Wood species: Ash and Birch solids with White Oak veneers.Cabinets are finished inside and out, with a premium undercoat finish for superior moisture and UV resistance.Brushed Nickel finish hardware.


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I'm back, equipped with my wife's computer, my wife's cell phone, but thankfully, my own clothes. A man has to draw the line somewhere.
As for the Rangers, I suppose it's worth noting that the team they face tonight is the very Capitals team they opened their season against to great expectations on Oct. 5. That game, a 5-2 Rangers win, was a resounding effort by a confident team, and at the time, I had little doubt the Rangers had the ingredients to venture deep into the playoffs.
 And to think, I wasn't even drinking at the time.
 Because here the Rangers are, losers of their last seven, and perhaps one more humiliating loss away from slipping into total irrelevance (if they haven't already). You may recall a while back "Tom Renney told me that if the Rangers lost eight in a row":http://rangers.lohudblogs.com/2006/12/01/renney-whatever-happens-happens/, "we've got a serious problem, and certainly I would personally." Well, now No. 8 is possibly 60 minutes away tonight. That's not to say Renney can expect to clean out his office if the Rangers don't finish 2006 with a W. But as he said himself, it certainly makes the prospect more likely.
Meanwhile, a few updates.

Again, no Marek Malik, and as my man JT already filled you in, Bryce Lampman is already on a Greyhound back to Hartford. Scoff if you want, but Renney thought the Rangers backline was fairly solid last night, and doesn't feel the need to make a change.

It looks like Colton Orr will play his second straight game on the fourth line in place of Jarkko Immonen. Immonen is going to skate in warm-ups, but Renney said that is more a precaution in case Ryan Hollweg, who sustained a charley horse last night, can't go. But that's unlikely, meaning Immonen, who is one of the few players on the roster who might actually contribute some offense, will again be watching from the stands.

Henrik Lundqvist is back in net.

As if seven losses in a row wasn't enough reason desperately need a win, consider that the Capitals have played four games in their last five nights, and are lurking just behind in the Eastern Conference standings.

In the continued interest of self-promotion, I should mention I'll be a guest on "Blueshirt Bulletin":http://ordinaryleastsquare.typepad.com/blueshirtbulletin/'s 4 on 3 chat from 7 to 9 p.m. on Wednesday. Please stop by and send along your questions, provided they're not about computers, cell phones, or women's clothing.
 OK, that's all for now. More later…ÂÂ


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- brimless
- adjective see brim I
New Collegiate Dictionary. 2001.
New Collegiate Dictionary. 2001.
Brimless — Brim less, a. Having no brim; as, brimless caps. [1913 Webster] … The Collaborative International Dictionary of English
brimless — adjective without a brim a brimless hat • Pertains to noun: ↑brim … Useful english dictionary
brimless — adjective Having no brim … Wiktionary
brimless — adj. having no edges … English contemporary dictionary
brimless — brim·less … English syllables
toque — /tohk/, n. 1. a brimless and close fitting hat for women, in any of several shapes. 2. a velvet hat with a narrow, sometimes turned up brim, a full crown, and usually a plume, worn by men and women esp. in 16th century France. 3. tuque. [1495… … Universalium
Bonnet (headgear) — A bonnet is a kind of headgear which is usually brimless. Only a few kinds of bonnets are still worn today, most commonly by babies.BabiesThe most common kind of bonnet worn today is a soft headcovering for babies. They are shaped similarly to… … Wikipedia
Pileus (hat) — The pileus (plural, pilei ), also pilleus or pilleum, was, in Ancient Greece, where it was the pilidion , and in Rome, a brimless, felt cap, somewhat similar to a fez. The pilleolus was a smaller cap, similar to a skullcap. It was especially… … Wikipedia
Hood — • A flexible, conical, brimless head dress, covering the entire head, except the face Catholic Encyclopedia. Kevin Knight. 2006. Hood Hood † … Catholic encyclopedia
kamelaukion — ˌkäməˈlau̇kˌyȯn, au̇kēˌȯn noun ( s) Etymology: Middle Greek kamēlaukion, alteration (probably influenced by Greek kamēlos camel) of Late Greek kamelaukion : a tall brimless hat worn by priests and monks in some Eastern rites * * * /kah mee lahf … Useful english dictionary


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Bela Salon in Elk River has moved to a new and much larger salon.
It is now located at 19320 Highway 169 in the former Simonson's Salon and Spa space, near Von Hanson's Meats and Dunn Brothers Coffee.
Bela Salon had been located at 18157 Carson Ct., near Jimmy John's and Walgreens. The salon's first day in the new location was Monday, Nov. 7.
Hours are 9 a.m.-9 p.m. Monday-Thursday, 9 a.m.-5 p.m. Friday and 9 a.m.-4 p.m. Saturday.
The salon offers a variety of services including haircuts, coloring, foiling, perms, manicures, shellac nails, pedicures, massages, facials, eyelash extensions and hair extensions.
Bela Salon has been in business since 1999 and is owned by Jenny Scharber, Jessica Kiesling and Maria Dollansky.
For more information, go to www.belasalon.com or call 763-441-7679. Bela Salon is also on Facebook.
Bela Salon moves to new location in Elk River
Bela Salon in Elk River has moved to a new and much larger salon.


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General Chemistry
Intermolecular Forces
Be prepared to describe and identify the intermolecular/interparticle forces present in matter and relate these forces to the relative magnitude of physical properties such as vapor pressure, boiling point, melting point, viscosity, surface tension, and solubility.
Be prepared to develop an equilibrium constant expression for a chemical reaction. Know the significance of a large Keq versus a small Keq. Know how to apply Le Châtelier's Principle (Law of Mass Action) to perturbations of an equilibrium system. Make sure you could calculate a reaction quotient (Q), and determine the direction of "shift" to reach equilibrium and determine the new equilibrium concentrations of all species in a chemical reaction.
Gas Laws
Be prepared to work problems using the ideal gas law. Know how to rearrange this expression to solve for gas density or to find the molecular weight or mass of a gas. Know under what conditions one can utilize Boyle's Law, Charles' Law, Avogadro's Law, or the Combined Gas Law and be able to solve problems related to these laws.
Know the key points of the Kinetic Molecular Theory for an Ideal Gas and know under what conditions gases tend to behave non-ideally. Know, in general terms, what corrections have to be made to the ideal gas law under non-ideal conditions.
Basic Quantitation
Be able to write and balance a chemical equation. Be able to perform basic stoichiometry problems, including limiting reagent problems.
Know how to calculate enthalpy changes associated with chemical reactions by utilizing the reaction stoichiometry. Know how to apply Hess' Law.
Describe how one could make a specific volume of a desired solution of known concentration or prepare a given volume of a dilute solution (concentration given) from a more concentrated solution.
Atomic Structure and Periodic Properties
You should be able to describe the quantum mechanical view of the atom and assign quantum numbers for electrons within an atom. You should be able to generate electron configurations for atoms or ions. You should be able to identify and describe the importance of "valence" electrons. You should know the origins of paramagnetic versus diamagnetic behavior. You should know the meaning of "effective nuclear charge" and be able to express how the "n" value and the ENC give rise to the periodic trends of atomic size and ionization energy.
You should be able to describe ways to "speed up" a chemical reaction. You should be able to draw and/or interpret a reaction energy diagram (i.e., be able to identify: reactants, intermediates, transition states, activation energies, rate-determining step, overall energy changes…). You should know the general form for a rate law and be able to generate a rate law from experimental data. You should know the concept of "order" with respect to an individual reactant and the overall reaction. You should be able to evaluate the plausibility of suggested reaction mechanisms by comparison to a known rate law.
Organic Chemistry
Nucleophilic Substitution
What characteristics of an alkyl halide are important in determining whether nucleophilic displacement will proceed by an SN1 or an SN2 reaction, and why do these characteristics play a part? What characteristics of the attacking nucleophile leaving group and solvent play a part? How would one determine experimentally (two ways) whether a reaction of this sort would be SN1 or SN2?
Electrophilic Addition of Alkenes
Upon addition of unsymmetrical molecules across an unsymmetrical carbon-carbon double bond, what factors govern the regio-selectivity for the molecular fragments and the final structure of the product? How can one control the selectivity? Use mechanisms and intermediate stability in your explanations.
Aromatic Substitution
Be able to discuss electrophilic aromatic substitution with emphasis on how and why the inductive effects of ring substituents affect structures of products and the rate of the reactions. Know the 5 reactions that fall in this category and ways of modifying the groups already on the benzene ring.
Structural Determination from Spectroscopy and Spectrometry
Be able to suggest a structure for a substance based on NMR, FTIR, and mass spectrometry data. Alternatively, be able to draw the above spectra if molecular structures are given. Know the most important absorption values for proton NMR and IR.
Grignard Reactions
Be able to discuss the Grignard reaction, identifying starting materials, different products and when each product would be expected, and the complexities of actually running Grignard reactions. Show the mechanisms by which the products are formed.
Types of Reactions
Be able to identify reactions as addition, condensation, hydrolysis, elimination, rearrangement, substitution, oxidation or reduction.
Be prepared to describe the components of a buffer and know which factors determine "buffering capacity". You should know the basic biologic mechanisms for buffering the body's fluids (blood and cellular buffering systems) and the reasons behind the requirement for buffering of the body's fluids. You should know how one would select and then prepare a buffer for use in the lab. (Implicit in this is that you must know the Henderson-Hasselbach equation and be able to work problems utilizing this equation.) You should be able to generate and/or interpret titration curves for both monoprotic and polyprotic acids.
Biological Monomers and Polymers
Be able to summarize some of the important structures/functions of the four biological building blocks and the bonds that link them: lipids, amino acids, carbohydrates, and nucleic acids. Know the classification of the 20 amino acids: hydrophobic, polar, and charged. Biochemistry majors only: be able to draw the 20 amino acids with their corresponding 3 letter codes and 1 letter codes.
Structure and Function of Proteins
Be able to differentiate between primary, secondary, tertiary and quaternary protein structure. You should be able to discuss the structural and functional similarities and differences between hemoglobin and myoglobin. Be able to discuss in detail the various species that influence hemoglobin's affinity for oxygen (i.e. cooperativity of O2 binding, H+, CO2, 2,3-DPG).
Enzyme Regulation and Signal Transduction
Be able to discuss different ways that enzymes' activities are regulated, including both reversible and irreversible regulation. This means that you should be able to discuss competitive, noncompetitive, and uncompetitive inhibitors as well as allosteric effectors. You should know the roles of kinases and phosphatases. You should understand the concepts of zymogen activation and feedback inhibition. You should also be able to describe the signal transduction cascade responsible for generating the second messenger cAMP and the activation of Protein Kinase A.
Biochemistry Techniques
Be able to draw/describe how PCR works and what substrates are required to perform a PCR reaction and how to analyze PCR reactions via agarose gel electrophoresis. Be able to explain how Sanger DNA Sequencing works. Be familiar with different types of chromatography: ion exchange, affinity, and size exclusion. Be able to explain SDS-PAGE and 2D gel electrophoresis for the separation and analysis of proteins.
Physical Chemistry I
Be prepared to discuss various thermodynamic variables (ex., heat, work, temperature, internal energy, enthalpy, entropy, Gibbs free energy, etc.) and how they relate to one another. Know the steps in the Carnot Cycle and how to calculate efficiency. Be able to determine the sign (i.e. positive, negative, or zero) for q, w, DT, DU, DH, DS and DG for an isothermal or reversible adiabatic expansion or compression of a gas.
Quantum Mechanics and Electronic Spectroscopy
Be prepared to discuss what information is contained in a wavefunction and how this information is obtained (energies, probability densities). You should know the general form of the Schrödinger equation and how it is used with particular reference to a "particle in a box" and the Hydrogen atom. Be able to discuss how "particles in a box" may be used to model electronic spectra of conjugated organic molecules.
Physical Chemistry II
Reaction Equilibrium
Be able to write the equilibrium expression for an ideal gas mixture (the KPº equation). Be prepared to discuss the relationship between Gibbs free energy and the equilibrium constant. Be able to write the equilibrium expression for a nonideal system (examples: saturated aqueous solution of a salt, weak acid aqueous solution, autoprotolysis of water).
Kinetic Molecular Theory
Be prepared to discuss the Boltzmann distribution and the various physical properties of an ideal gas. You should be able to calculate the root-mean-square speed of a gas at room temperature. You should know the dependence of collision frequency and mean-free-path upon the various physical properties.
Inorganic Chemistry
Crystal Field Stabilization Energy
Be prepared to explain what is meant by the term "crystal field stabilization energy," CFSE. Be able to calculate the CFSE for octahedral and tetrahedral complexes. Be able to predict whether particular coordination complexes are high or low spin. Be able to relate the CFSE to the color of coordination complexes.
Group Theory
Be able to determine the symmetry point group for a given compound. Be prepared to predict the vibrational spectra (infrared and Raman) of compounds from character tables. Be able to write a representation (the characters) of parts of a molecule (orbitals, bonds, angles, SALCs), given the point group, and to use the character tables to identify the irrep that corresponds to this representation.
Atomic Properties
Be prepared to describe trends in ionization energy, electronegativity, size, polarizability, metallicity, and electron affinity. Be able to account for exceptions to broad trends. Be prepared to predict Hard/Soft acid base behavior and solubility based on these trends.
Be prepared to identify the oxidation states of all elements in compounds and ions. Be able to balance Redox half reactions and complete reactions and to calculate reduction potentials given tables of standard reduction potentials and initial cell concentrations.
Analytical Chemistry
Be able to describe the instrumental set-up for both Gas and Liquid Chromatography. That should include the types of injectors, columns, and detectors. As part of the discussion you should be able to delineate characteristic advantages and disadvantages of each component. For LC, be able to distinguish between normal phase and reversed phase separation. You should be able to tell what type of instrument is best for different types of samples. An ability to discuss the instrumentation and capabilities of the hyphenated techniques of GC-MS and LC-MS is also important.
Atomic and Molecular Spectroscopy
Be able to describe the instrumental set-up for the following types of spectrometers: AA, ICP-AE, MS, UV-Vis, and IR (both dispersive and FT). You should have an intuitive feel for what's happening to the atoms or molecules during the analysis process.
NMR, IR, and Mass Spec
Know numerical values for NMR and IR spectra. Be able to go from spectra to molecular structure and visa versa for proton NMR, carbon-13 NMR and IR. Understand the role of decoupling and shift reagent experiments in elucidating complex NMR spectra.
Be able to discuss the various processes a molecule may undergo following electronic excitation (including fluorescence, phosphorescence, intersystem crossing, etc.) and how these processes and their time scales relate to fluorescence spectra.


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Director Peter Morgan will examine Tony Blair's reaction to the handover of power between US presidents Bill Clinton and George W Bush in 2001.
The film will be Morgan's third in the Blair trilogy, which began with the Channel Four drama The Deal, which was shown in 2003.
Michael Sheen is expected to once again reprise his role as Blair, reports trade magazine Variety.
Morgan is to start writing the film by the end of the year and the project is being produced by Andy Harries and BBC Film's Christine Langan, the team behind The Deal and The Queen.
Harries and Langan are already working on another Morgan screenplay at the moment called The Damned United.
It is adapted from David Peace's novel about football manager Brian Clough, with Sheen again set to take the lead role.
What are these?
Most Popular Now | 56,514 people are reading stories on the site right now.";


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Is there evidence of intelligent design in nature? Is the evidence scientifically robust? Why does it matter whether the universe shows evidence of design? Explore these questions and more at the fifth annual Westminster Conference on Science and Faith on April 11-12, 2014 at Covenant Fellowship Church in the greater Philadelphia area. This year's theme is "Science and Design" and features speakers such as biochemist Michael Behe and mathematician and philosopher William Dembski, both prominent intelligent design advocates, as well as other distinguished scholars.
Dr. Michael Behe is Professor of Biological Science at Lehigh University in Pennsylvania and Senior Fellow at Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture. Dr. Behe's research explores the limits of natural selection. His first book, Darwin's Black Box, explains how "irreducibly complex" biochemical systems pose a serious problem for Darwinian evolution, a concept that has garnered international attention. Dr. William Dembski is also a Senior Fellow of Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture and has published numerous articles in mathematics, philosophy, and theology journals, and has authored or contributed to over twenty books including The Design Inference and The Nature of Nature.
Additional speakers include Westminster Theological Seminary theologian Dr. Vern Poythress, author of Redeeming Science; molecular biologist Dr. Douglas Axe, co-author of Science and Human Origins and Director of the Biologic Institute; Discovery Institute Senior Fellow Dr. John G. West, editor of The Magician's Twin: C.S. Lewis on Science, Scientism, and Society; and Discovery Institute Research Coordinator Casey Luskin, co-author of the homeschool curriculum Discovering Intelligent Design.
Download the Preliminary Conference Program
This event will be of special interest to seminary students, college students, and pastors and other church leaders. The conference is sponsored by Westminster Theological Seminary and Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture. It will take place at Covenant Fellowship Church in greater Philadelphia.
Conference registration includes admission to all sessions, any relevant conference materials, lunch on Saturday, and a professionally produced set of DVDs featuring all conference plenary and breakout sessions (a $50 value!), which will be mailed to you a few months after the conference.
Regular Pricing (March 15th - April 4th)
General Admission: $95
Student Admission: $40
Group (10+) Admission: $75/person
Groups may register online or by filling out the group registration form. Please note the submission guidelines at the top of the form.
Online pre-registration is now closed, but walk-up registration will be available at the conference. Because materials and lunches have been pre-ordered, we cannot guarantee enough supplies for walk-ups, but we will do our best to accommodate you. Walk-up rates will be as follows:
General Public: $95
Students: $40
For questions about registration, please email Janine Dixon (Discovery Institute) at email@example.com or call 1-800-685-0632 ext. 108 between 9am-5:30pm (PT).
Cancellations/Refunds: If your plans change and you are no longer able to attend the conference, email email@example.com. Refunds will only be issued for cancellations made by 5:00pm (ET) on Friday, April 4th.
Conference Venue:
Covenant Fellowship Church
One Fellowship Rd., Glen Mills, PA 19342
Hotel Recommendation:
Attendees are responsible for securing their own lodging and transportation. The Staybridge Suites Wilmington - Brandywine Valley (approximately one mile from Covenant Church) is offering discounted rates of $112/night for studios and $135/night for suites (which includes WiFi access and breakfast buffet) for reservations made by March 7th. Reservations can be made online with group code "WSF", or by calling 610-358-2560 and mentioning the group name "Westminster Science & Faith." See this map for other hotels in the Glen Mills area.
Science and DesignCovenant Fellowship Church, Greater Philadelphia
Past Event April 11, 2014 - April 12, 2014 Covenant Fellowship Church, Greater Philadelphia


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Thank god R. Kelly isn't into dogs
What's more tragic, that a 14 year-old black girl was given the business (pretty much every kind of business there is) by R. Kelly, or that some dogs may have been mistreated by Michael Vick? To hear the media tell it, it's arguably the latter. Do they have a point?
It's been over five years since a video tape surfaced of R. Kelly having his way with and subsequently miterating upon a girl who was said to be only 14 years old at the time, but it looks like the singer will finally appear in court to face charges of child pornography.
In the mean time, there's been any number of unfortunate legal proceedings involving black male celebrites, especially athletes. The latest such incident involves Michael Vick, whose back yard is being dug up for the bones of dead dogs as we speak, and you know how people are about dogs. I suppose it was only a matter of time before someone compared the Michael Vick incident to the R. Kelly incident.
It's hard to say, because it's been a while since the R. Kelly tape was discovered, but it does seem like there's been more outrage over the revelation that Michael Vick was probably running a dog fighting ring than the revelation that R. Kelly took a piss on a 14 year-old girl and even had the sheer balls to tape it.
For example, Michael Vick hasn't even been convicted yet, and already he's been losing endorsement deals. Meanwhile, R. Kelly's career was never as hot as it's been since we learned that he's into underage water sports. While Peta is throwing the biggest bitch fit evar over Michael Vick, the NAACP actually tried to give R. Kelly an Image Award after the infamous video tape surfaced.
As easy as it would be to play like your boy Common – who has a line on his new album about white people's love for their pets vis a vis black people – and assign some sort of race element to this, I think it's worth noting that white people were arguably more upset with R. Kelly when the
shit piss hit the fan than black people have ever been.
While it had been whispered in the black community that R. Kelly likes his girls young (and who doesn't) going at least as far back as that time he married Aaliyah (I don't even want to think about what he did to her), if not even further, it took a white journalist in Chicago to set the wheels in motion that ultimately led to this trial.
Black people, meanwhile? Not so much. This weekend, my parents are down in Atlanta for my family reunion. I'm not going, because I'd rather go to Chicago for Lollapalooza (maybe I'll meet a nice young girl…), but I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that someone's going to step in the name of love before it's all said and done with. Old black people love R. Kelly, and it's not like they don't know what he does.
I've already speculated before on this site on why this might be the case, and of course mofos had to jump all down my throat. But I think there's a case to be made that a 14 year-old black chick, especially the one in the R. Kelly video, has probaby already been around the block once or twice. After all, the ghettos of America didn't get to be filled with 29 year-old grandmothers by osmosis.
The unfortunate young woman in the R. Kelly video looked like she enjoyed what she was doing and may have even been paid for it. Meanwhile, no dog enjoys getting its face fucked up trying to chew another dog's neck open and then being buried in Michael Vick's back yard. Do I mean to suggest that a young black woman's life is worth less than a dog's? No. I'm just saying you have to consider the crime.


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Silver Glossy Live Wallpaper.
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Works for phones with live wallpaper feature. Not all handsets support the live wallpaper feature. If you find any bugs please do not hesitate to contact me at e-mail and I will take care of it ASAP.
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German Shepherd Education Through the GSDCA Charitable Trust
The GSDCA Charitable Trust was formed to educate breeders, judges, juniors, clubs and the public, thereby improving the health, genetics, education and overall respect for our breed. We seek to gather and disseminate up-to-date and relevant information through education. Our Club and it's Charitable Trust's vitality depend upon financial health. Our community's support has a measurable impact on the Trust's ability to educate. We appreciate your lifelong commitment to the German Shepherd Dog and need your support for this program. Please give at a level that is comfortable for you. Our goal is to reach 100% participation. This tax-deductible gift can be given by check or with a Credit Card or PayPal (scroll down for the payment button).You will be receiving a letter verifying your tax deductible donation, public recognition in the GSD Review as well as my personal letter of thanks.
For further info on this program, please contact Deborah Stern at 818-207-6448. Please make checks out to GSDCA Charitable Trust and send to Deborah Stern at the address below.
Thank you for your unwaivering support of the very best and most versatile dog in the world,
Carmen Battaglia
The GSDCA Charitable Trust is a section 501(c)(3) charitable organization. Its purpose is to educate breeders, judges, juniors, clubs and the general public. We seek to gather and disseminate up-to-date and relevant information on topics such as health, genetics, legislation etc. and, through education, improve the overall general opinion of and respect for the German Shepherd Dog.
As the GSDCA Charitable Trust was created for benevolent purposes, we intend to host special canine events that would educate the public about the upkeep and care of the German Shepherd Dog as well as raise funds for recognized charities that help our dogs.
We intend to hold educational forums where search and rescue, police, and other charitable organizations will participate in order to encourage the public to contribute to these worthy endeavors. A portion of the net proceeds generated from these events will be donated to charitable organizations involving the German Shepherd Dog. The donations would also benefit medical facilities involved in research. We intend to put on national and international events for these same purposes.
The formation of the German Shepherd Charitable Trust (GSCT) enables us to expand our efforts throughout the United States. We need to be a cohesive group that works toward the betterment of the GSD. We share a common passion and are so fortunate that we can work toward a brighter future for our breed. The GSDACT affords us the opportunity to do exactly that, (updated 5/11/16)
The German Shepherd Dog Club of America Charitable Trust is the business name for a 501(c)(3) nonprofit educational foundation.
You may donate in any of the following ways:
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SkyCity deal must be ditched following Auditor Gen report
19 February 2013
SkyCity deal must be ditched following Auditor General report
Today's damning Auditor General report into the National Government's pokies-for-convention centre deal with SkyCity shows the casino got preferential treatment and the deal should be ditched, the Green Party said today.
"This report does not vindicate John Key," Green Party Co-leader Metiria Turei said.
"The Auditor General's report was hugely damning, finding the process that chose SkyCity was 'flawed' and revealing the relationship with SkyCity was so cozy that the other proposers didn't stand a chance.
"The Deputy Auditor General stated 'the contact with one proposer was of a wholly different nature from the contact with others. Officials effectively worked with SkyCity for some months… while other proposers were kept on hold and given very little information'.
"John Key is clinging to one technical finding in the report – while ignoring the vast majority of the report which was hugely damning of a flawed and unbalanced process.
"SkyCity clearly got preferential treatment and the report raises serious concerns about how the expressions of interest process was run. It is unacceptable for the deal to stay on the table.
"The Deputy Auditor General has not recommended where to from here, but it is unacceptable that one company can be treated in a 'wholly different nature than the others' as the report says, in such a large commercial deal involving a first world Government.
"The process was not fair, open or transparent and meetings between the Government and SkyCity were 'materially different in quantity and kind' to those between the Government and other parties.
"The report said the process under which the Government sought for expressions of interest for a convention centre in early 2010 had been 'poorly planned and executed. Insufficient attention was given to planning and management of the process as a whole, so that risks were not adequately addressed and managed'.
"John Key says a $350 million convention centre will be built at no cost to New Zealanders, but in reality it will be built on the back of suffering and misery – because that's what will be created by allowing more pokie machines in exchange.
"The National Government should not be changing our laws to allow more pokie machines than the current law considers safe.
"John Key says that, on a scale of 1 to 100, the deal had been dealt with the standard of 100. I think most New Zealanders would find that quite revolting and a shocking insight into how Mr Key conducts business behind the scenes," Mrs Turei said.