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Intel Iris & Iris Pro Graphics: Haswell GT3/GT3e Gets a Brandby Anand Lal Shimpi on 5/1/2013 11:00 PM EST
104 Comments
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Azethoth - Wednesday, May 01, 2013 - linkOh man I cannot wait for my new Haswell desktop build. As such the built in GPU is probably only useful for quicksync and whatever OpenCL software can squeeze out of it in addition to the discrete GPU. Do we know yet if the fastest GPU (with the packaged memory) will be available for the fastest destop sku or will it be for low power mobile / ultrabooks only?
Also will it perhaps be possible to do 2D layers and compositing on the built in Iris Graphics and purely the 3D on the discrete GPU? Something like the LucidLogix stuff on my current P8Z77V Deluxe? Reply
skiboysteve - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkLatest Intel drivers allow that without anything special like Lucid's stuff. On windows 8 only Reply
marc1000 - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkfrom the info, I understand that there will be a desktop version of it with the eDRAM, it will be the -R cpus. it will only be available in BGA though, and this means you will have to buy it soldered on the motherboard. but it will exist. I just hope it has unlocked multiplier at least. Reply
just4U - Sunday, May 05, 2013 - linkI'd like to know what your current cpu is if you can't wait for a Haswell. If you say you have a i5 (or better) sandy/ivy bridge than im going to smack you :P
Kidding aside, If your on a older comp than maybe haswell is a good buy. Personally I don't see it for anyone on a intel i5/7 made in the last couple of years. Reply
HodakaRacer - Wednesday, May 01, 2013 - linkI don't see any mention of "iris pro" for a notebook/tablet/convertible. I was hoping for something akin to the razor edge with GT3e, or a lighter notebook ( I know you can't have a 45w TDP ultrabook). The lack of discrete graphics should allow OEMs to make smaller and lighter form factors that can still play games at lower settings Reply
HodakaRacer - Wednesday, May 01, 2013 - linkor at least they don't show it on the notebook benchmark Reply
whatthehey - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkI think the i7-4950HQ is a GT3e part, isn't it? The i7-4900MQ is the GT3 I'm pretty sure, so that would make sense. Reply
cmikeh2 - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkThat's what I thought as well. The performance gap definitely suggests it. And I must say that's a very high SKU number for a non Extreme line product. Reply
IntelUser2000 - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkOnly the "HQ" parts are GT3. The MQ parts are regular GT2 parts. Reply
silverblue - Friday, May 03, 2013 - linkAlways reassuring to know you're buying a medium quality product... they must've known that would be inferred from MQ/HQ. Reply
ssiu - Wednesday, May 01, 2013 - linkWould Windows 8 tablets use the 15W Haswell processors, or would they all shift to the ~10W Y-series processors for better battery life but same-or-worse performance?
And it seems many (most?) tablets use single-channel memory (non-upgradable to dual-channel) thus severely handicapping GPU performance. Would that reverse with Haswell tablets? All the hard work going into improving GPU performance being negated by such idiot move ... Reply
teiglin - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkDo we actually know that Intel is going to be selling Y-series Haswell parts? I had assumed that the Y SKUs were a gimmick to hold people over until Haswell had legit 10W parts. Reply
HodakaRacer - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkI believe they are due around October, although I don't remember where I heard that. I believe there will be parts ~7w for tablets and such. perfect timing for the surface pro 2 :) Reply
jeffkibuule - Wednesday, May 01, 2013 - linkHaswell tablets need to focus on getting decent battery life before they start pursing better GPU performance. 4 hours of typical usage is not enough. Reply
HodakaRacer - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkThey have atom for that. I obviously have not used haswell yet but it sounds like a good balance of performance and power for me. Reply
axien86 - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkCountdown to benchmarks between Intel and AMD Richland/Jaguar APUs comparing:
Latest DX11.1 games at 1920x1080 and higher resolutions with 3-6 monitors
GPU compute performance with OpenCL
Crossfire capability with Intel and AMD
Finally, compare Intel and AMD Richland/Jaguar APU prices... Reply
HodakaRacer - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - link"Latest DX11.1 games at 1920x1080 and higher resolutions with 3-6 monitors"
haha, if only Reply
JarredWalton - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkWe'll run our standard laptop benchmarks, which means 1366x768 Medium, 1600x900 High, and 1920x1080 Ultra settings for games. I'll see about testing OpenCL as well, if it works properly on Iris/Haswell iGPUs. As for CrossFire capability, I'll test it when possible, but let me tell you: Dual Graphics is not all it's cracked up to be. I'll have an article on the current Trinity + HD 7670M performance in the not-too-distant future, but even when it works, scaling is much lower than desktop CF. Reply
mayankleoboy1 - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkIf anything, i want detailed review and test of the QuickSync 3.0 .:) Reply
whyso - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - link"not all its cracked up to be"
Are you referring to the people who say its good or the people who say its a gimmick.
Would really like to see that review, its hard to find any hybrid crossfire benchmarks. Reply
jeffkibuule - Wednesday, May 01, 2013 - linkIf performance really is as claimed, I wonder if Apple will drop dedicated graphics in the 15" Retina MacBook Pro and just stick with Intel... Or we could even see a hypothetical 15" MacBook Air. Reply
ISwearImCool - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkThey might, but then they have extra space in the chassis of the laptop. Apple gets a lot of milage out of their designs so I expect it to stay.
This should be huge for the 15 inch retina pro though. Its scrolling is currently less smooth than the 13 because it uses onboard graphics unless doing something intense. Reply
Death666Angel - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkHuh? The 13" one only has the integrated graphics to work with as well. And it has the slower CPUs as well, with slower max turbo clocks for the iGPU too. Your explanation makes no sense.
Maybe the 26.5% increased pixel count is the reason for the bad performance. Reply
akdj - Sunday, May 05, 2013 - link"This should be huge for the 15 inch retina pro though. Its scrolling is currently less smooth than the 13 because it uses onboard graphics unless doing something intense."
Not true at all. There aren't any scrolling issues due to hardware, never was. Poorly coded sites...and non HiDPI ready sites exhibited some scrolling lag...initially. 10.8.2 helped a LOT. 10.8.3 even more significantly. As well, Ars, Facebook, TechCrunch...and a few other media-rich, content heavy, extremely 'over busy' sites have helped a ton with their coding. The Intel 4000 is actually a damn good card and easily able to run HiDPI monitors like Apple's own cinema displays without issue. Not to mention, the 15" includes a discrete, over clocked 650m. If ever you're scrolling/visiting a site that exhibits 'lag', you can easily enable your discrete card to alleviate any challenges. A lot of this has to do with the pixel doubling as well...which you can see is using CPU power (if you're running iStat...or any number of apps that allow you to gauge processor real time power) and the rMBP is more than equipped to handle this upscaling. Again...the updates to ML, coding pros working on busy sites...and the impact that more HiDPI monitors have on the Internet will be the kick in the rear some of these lazy sites need to update their code to perform better.
The entire 'lag' thing with rMBPs has been blown so SO far out of proportion, it's silly. I know when Anand tested the rMBP initially it was on Lion. 10.7. That is where there were issues. 10.8 helped a lot...and the point updates, as well as the software industry over the past year has helped significantly the early speed bumps the rMBP experienced. Non-optimized apps and software as well as poorly coded websites and low resolution, non-vector imaging. So much has changed over the past 10 months since its release, it's crazy! Very exciting actually, as hopefully these high resolution monitors are ubiquitous sooner than later. Rest assured though...as a rMBP owner (we've got a pair that replaced our 17" 2011 models for primary computers as our business is mobile), it really makes me sad that so much misinformation is still spread on the rMBP. Even as a windows fan, you should be 'rooting' for this evolutionary display update. When using the display for long periods of time, your eyes will thank you! Reply
seapeople - Friday, May 10, 2013 - linkSo you're telling me that if I walk to Best Buy, set the rMBP to 1920x1200 equivalent, open up AnandTech, zoom in so the text covers most of the screen, and start scrolling around, it's NOT going to lag like crazy? As of a few weeks ago, significant lag was still there... Reply
firex123 - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkhow would an AMD Temash/Jaguar roughly compare to a tablet Haswell? Objective views pls ;D Reply
whatthehey - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkUgh... that would be a blowout, at least in performance, for Haswell. The current E-series APUs are only slightly better than Atom garbage! Oh, they're faster than ARM as well in most cases, but I think even some of the ARM GPU configurations beat AMD's E-series parts. Temash/Jaguar go quad-core, but that doesn't do anything for lightly threaded workloads, which are still very common. Reply
kyuu - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkObviously Haswell would beat it... Jaguar are low power CPU cores like Atom (although superior). Comparing Jaguar cores to Haswell is inane. Reply
Stryfe34 - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkThe 4770K is the top of the line desktop processor but yet the 4770R has the highest increase in the GPU. Based on what I've been reading the "R" designator mean that the CPU is embedded to the motherboard so no upgrades so I'm not in the market for it. You'd think they would add that priority to the 4770K also. Reply
beginner99 - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkWhy? The 4770K is for overclocking and overclockers usually don't run with an iGPU but have a dedicated GPU anyway. Personally the would rather add 2-4 more cores to it and remove the iGPU completely. Reply
Kjella - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkPeople buying an integrated chip where you can't upgrade the CPU or GPU separately probably aren't very interested in upgrades at all, besides Intel's sockets never last longer than a tick-tock so IMO it doesn't make any sense. Personally I'm considering to upgrade an LGA1156 system, already LGA1155 will have come and gone before LGA1150 so why bother? What you can't do is mix and match motherboards and CPU, but then the mainstream boards relying on the Intel chipset are almost clones anyway. The only real downside is that if something breaks outside warranty you must replace the whole thing. Reply
Aikouka - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkNo, at least from what I gathered, the R-series chips are your normal, desktop LGA-style chips. The point is that we originally thought that the iGPU with embedded DRAM wouldn't be available to desktop users, but that's what this R series is for. Reply
Aikouka - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkThat 4770R looks like it'd be a great (albeit pricey) replacement for my i3-3225 in my HTPC! The TDP is only 10W higher, so the Streacom case shouldn't be stressed too much. Reply
Haserath - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkI hope you test both K and R models on launch. It would be great to know if R is overclockable or not. Reply
MrSpadge - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkYeah.. if the eDRAM works as a nice L4 cahce for the CPU and someone made a high quality mainboard, I could see people buying these instead of regular 4770Ks and pushing for the +25% or +67% OC via the bus. Reply
Pappnaas - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkHaswell will win big times if you could play things like WoW@1080P with good settings on it. But if they keep the driver support like it has been, Iris will backfire. Reply
perry1mm - Friday, June 07, 2013 - linkYou can do that on Ivy Bridge. I have a Sony Vaio Duo 11 with the i7-3537u (8GB 1600Mhz RAM) and can play WoW at 1080p with a mix of 'Fair' and 'Good' graphics settings (It goes Low, Fair, Good, High, Ultra) @ 40+ FPS (except in a few places it will dip to 30 or so).
I can only imagine the high voltage Ivy Bridge processors can run WoW even better, and the desktop versions probably somewhere between Good and Ultra. Reply
iwod - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkI dont like the Pro Branding. Since this actually signals something similar to Workstation Type Graphics, when it is more like a SuperCharged version with eDRAM.
The Problem is the same, Drivers, Unless Intel is committed to improving Drivers and Performance at a regular schedule, otherwise this means nothing compared to AMD and Nvidia Offering. Reply
tipoo - Friday, May 03, 2013 - linkNo different than Radeon Pro I suppose, although that was dropped. Reply
Ilias78 - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkSorry Anand, but until i see graphical performance that equals mid-to-high end graphics cards (because i believe that we would all want something like this at the end of the day), i see no revolution from Intel here. Comparing Iris to Radeon and Geforce, is just plain wishful thinking and over-excitement for no real reason. Its just another discrete GPU with higher clocks. Reply
mayankleoboy1 - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - link+1 Reply
ven - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkafter reading all the information about haswell it is clear there is no any significant changes for the socket version processor,completely ignoring those version of processor doesn't good look for the PC market(which is already in free fall) at least intel should bring the iris to the low-end "i3" series.
what intel need now is to get very good support from OEMs, it is high time intel should start supporting video games company and should work closely with them. until their processor capture a place in the devices like vita,edge; those benchmarks bars are nothing. Reply
Wurmer - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - link"At least intel should bring the iris to the low-end "i3" series."
I agree, It's obvious to me that the best IGP should be paired with lower end CPU. I am still baffeled by Intel's views that insist on pairing the best IGP with the best GPU. It doesn't make much sens. I think they would have much more sucess if CPU of i3 or i5 level could be paired with top of the line IGP. It's been said many times over but if someone is ready to shell out 300$ + for a CPU, he doesn't care much about IGP. Reply
Spunjji - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkAgreed also. Intel's strategy here is irritatingly abusive towards consumers. I don't see any mention and/or criticism of it in this puff piece, though.
I'm serious about the above too. I love this site and I dislike the tendency for people to cry bias, but this piece is a press-release with some drooling added to it. Not pretty. Reply
silverblue - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkAMD is guilty of this as well. I wouldn't mind seeing a lower CPU option combined with the top graphics option; I doubt even that will bottleneck the GPU. Hell, with a lower power CPU, maybe there'd be more in the TDP budget for the GPU.
AMD could look to diversify their portfolio here. Reply
ven - Friday, May 03, 2013 - link"More TDP budget for GPU & acceptable CPU performance".God! I miss the Nvidia Ion. Reply
DigitalFreak - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - link"I'm serious about the above too. I love this site and I dislike the tendency for people to cry bias, but this piece is a press-release with some drooling added to it. Not pretty."
Do you see the word "review" anywhere in this article? dipshit Reply
Spunjji - Friday, May 03, 2013 - linkDid I say it was a review? No, I didn't. I did say that I expect a release like this to have a little critical thought applied to it, especially coming from someone with the technical expertise that Anand wields.
Can you understand that? The concept that your respect for someone may lead to disappointment?
Now kindly back off. Reply
formulav8 - Friday, May 03, 2013 - linkits nothing more than kissing Intel and raising hype Reply
Ilias78 - Saturday, May 04, 2013 - linkIndeed. Until we see some better driver support from Intel, this announcement doesnt mean squat. And honestly Anand, ill say it again: Comparing Iris to Geforce and Radeon, was a straight kiss-up to Intel. Its not even close to that. Reply
fteoath64 - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkYou can blame Marketing for this. They want customers to buy mid and high-end parts, not so low-end. At the same time, making low-end part (ie the i3) slower than expected would encourage an upgrade to a mid-end part. Again, those pesky marketing tricks used often. Hey, it is the price point. If you buy i3 do not expect i5 performance, if you want that get the i5. It explains why we are seeing less models on offer for the i3 parts. Reply
Spunjji - Friday, May 03, 2013 - linkProbably right. It's easier to just buy an i7 than to try and wade through the spec sheets to figure out whether the features you want are included in a lower-end variant.
Same game Microsoft likes to play with Windows licencing... Reply
tipoo - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - link3x would still put it under the 650M they compared it to IIRC, the 650 was about 5x faster (lazy and at work so not checking, do correct me if wrong).
Also how does Intel fare on this whole frame latency thing? Reply
kallogan - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - link2,5x HD 4000 score would give P1750. It's nowhere close to the P2200 of the 650M GT. Reply
whyso - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkits about 3 times faster in games. Reply
DesktopMan - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkNo GT3e for dual core parts, that's surprising. What does this mean for the 13 inch MacBook Pro which up to now was destined for GT3e? Reply
fteoath64 - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkSince Apple had decided in the SB days to use Intel's IGP in the 13 inch pro, there is no loss from their perspective as the new part is faster (if only a little, still faster). For the 15inch Pro, it settled on the GT650M so that is still faster than the GT3e so Intel is not making much headroom on the Apple side of things, however would certainly displace may lower-end discrete graphics on the PC side of the business. Still a win for Intel (maybe big but not huge). Yawn. The evolution is still on-going as the specialists (AMD and NV) pulls ahead strongly on their discrete chips for mobile. Gpu is a losing business for Intel but they still plot along (they felt they do not have much of a choice really).
Also, there is no incentive to partner i3 part with GT3e since AMD Trinity and Richland will cream it and is cheaper. There is the competition and it is at the door step. This is why Intel is hyping the i7 for its superiority. Rightly so but who really need it ?!. Not most. Reply
Kjella - Friday, May 03, 2013 - linkLosing business? Intel has been gaining market share every year, less and less people see the need for discrete graphics. APUs are what keeps AMD floating. Don't get me wrong I have always had discrete graphics since I'm a gamer but I also know I'm in a small minority. Reply
DesktopMan - Friday, May 03, 2013 - linkAnandtech have been pretty clear on the fact that Apple is the one custromer pushing Intel for higher GPU performance. It would not surprise me if the 15 inch MBP drops nVidia once the Haswell refresh comes around. Lower clocked quad core for 13 inch maybe? Would be nice. Reply
tipoo - Friday, May 03, 2013 - linkNot unprecedented for Apple to go backwards on GPU performance, the current low end iMac just did, the macbooks from the 320M to the HD3000 sometimes did. Reply
karamazovmm - Saturday, May 04, 2013 - linkNot really you forgot that nvidia couldnt do chipsets for core i series. Reply
JDG1980 - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkI'm curious as to what this improvement means in real-world terms. For example, I currently have a fairly modest discrete card (Radeon HD 5670) which I use for some light gaming. How will Iris Pro 5200 compare to this and other older graphics cards? At what point is a discrete card still needed? Reply
Spunjji - Friday, May 03, 2013 - linkYou'll need to wait for benchmarks to figure that one out for sure. 3DMark results don't scan well to real-world performance, particularly with Intel GPUs. At a guess, however, I'd say the performance should be comparable if you were prepared to accept some image quality compromises. Reply
Quizzical - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkOnly OpenGL 4.0 and not 4.3 like AMD and Nvidia offer? Is Intel ever going to try to catch up on API support? Reply
makerofthegames - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkDoes anyone see Intel moving into the discrete GPU market?
I don't think it would be too hard for them at this point. It would basically just be a GT3 or GT3e with yet more execution units, something like 80, 120, maybe 160 EUs, and with a dedicated memory controller and memory (probably ripped from the GDDR5 of the Xeon Phi).
Intel's definitely shown interest in desktop graphics (the aforementioned Xeon Phi was, at one point, going to be a consumer graphics card). And they have most of the parts they need now to finish one up.
I don't think they're going to be jumping into the top-end market just yet, but I could see them continuing to eat up the low-end market, maybe competing with AMD's 77xx cards, or up to Nvidia's GTX 660. Reply
jeffkibuule - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkEven if they made the part, would anyone buy it? Who would spend $200+ on an Intel GPU when their driver performance is subpar? Reply
makerofthegames - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkAre they really that bad? They're consider by far the best on Linux, and on Windows I've heard far more complaints about AMD drivers than Intel, although that may have more to do with most people who care about graphics not using Intel. Reply
tipoo - Friday, May 03, 2013 - link"may have more to do with most people who care about graphics not using Intel."
Yup, answered your own question. AMD drivers are a dream compared to Intel, even in 2013. Reply
Spunjji - Friday, May 03, 2013 - linkHaha, yeah, not even the same ballpark under Windows. It's an issue of scale. AMD drivers are (on average) a little worse than nVidia (with many glaring and complicated exceptions on either side), while Intel are a LOT worse. We're talking fun issues like games not running at all and/or severe graphical glitches. Reply
xdrol - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkThat's nonsense. The market is moving towards integrated graphics, not discrete one. Reply
makerofthegames - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkOn the low end, yes. Discrete cards are quickly becoming a thing only for gamers and 3D professionals (as well as those needing heavy compute power). But that could be a more high-margin market for them, compared to integrated graphics. And with minimal R&D costs on top of the work they've already done for the iGPUs, the margins are even higher.
It makes sense to at least try it, on the small scale. Whether it makes sense in the context of their broader strategy is beyond my ability to guess. Reply
Azethoth - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkNo you are missing the big picture. The MhZ race ended in mid 2000s due to heat. Now we are into multiple cores. However that only buys you something if you can in fact make a particular workload parallel. So now you are sitting there with the ability to have 16 cores due to process improvements but 4 cores were already plenty.
The obvious answer is to bring more stuff on chip. From Memory controllers to GPU and physics chips there will be more and more non CPU stuff built in over time. It may be true today that you are better off with the GPU on a separate card. In a few years though there will be plenty of room on board. Couple that with unified GPU / CPU / whatever memory and you quickly get a single chip solution that is superior to anything discrete simply due to off chip bandwidth limitations. Reply
Haydon987 - Friday, May 03, 2013 - linkYes things are moving this way, but keep in mind that this "amazing ultrabook graphics performance" is approximately 7x slower than the flagship dedicated GPU already being sold by NVIDIA. While that is an improvement over previous generations, we're still at least a decade or more out from any real convergence on the high end of the GPU market.
So right now, at this moment in time in the market, it would make more sense to pair the high end integrated GPU with the lower performance CPUs because anyone buying a 4770K, for instance, is in all probability going to also be buying a GPU closer to that flagship level of performance on the GPU side of things. Reply
rituraj - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkJust release it already
A Lenovo thinkpad helix with i7 + iris.. god I am .... oh god... Reply
superjim - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkIf Richland gets the estimated 20% bump over Trinity, I'm wondering what the highest end GPU we will see in Ultrabooks will be. 8670 vs GT3? Keep in mind the 35W A10-4657M is already in the 14" Vizio CT14T-B0 with a 7660g so if AMD can cram that in an ultrabook, I don't see why a 5100 wouldn't be possible. Reply
alfredska - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkWhy do we not have a "Flag as spam" link? Reply
nixtish - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkWhich one of these SKU's do you guys think would make it into the next gen rMBP ? Reply
Ktracho - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkI would guess 28W GT3 for 13" MBP and 15W GT3 + discreet graphics for 15" MBP. Reply
karamazovmm - Saturday, May 04, 2013 - linkSo apple would put a lower performing part in the rmbp 13 2013 than what they had at launch? Complicated business decision Reply
brvnbld - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkNo way Intel is gonna compensate for the desktop graphics just by introducing CPU that comes with graphical components. IMO Intel is a conservative brand, AMD might not be competent with Intel in terms of performance, but price/performance ratio is good for AMD products, and i like the way AMD taking bold steps in GPU/CPU . Reply
HardwareDufus - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkI don't mind the BGA. I haven't upgraded a CPU on a motherboard in years. Still have the same Clarksdale I5-655K on my H55N Gigabyte miniITX machine, still the same 8GB of ram. Still very pleased with the IvyBridge I7-3770K on my P877Deluxe-I Asus miniITX machine, still the same 16GB of ram.
I'd have no objection to a Haswell I7-4770KR on a P887Deluxe-I Asus miniITX (it would be nice if Asus released a top of the line miniITX board with the Z87 chipset.. and put the top of the line Haswell with GT3e (Iris Pro or 5200..whatever you want to call it). I'd buy it and wouldn't mind one bit that the CPU was soldered. Reply
Concillian - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkHave the Intel drivers gotten any better? This isn't a sarcastic comment, I haven't really looked at Intel drivers since ~Sandy Bridge or so. Drivers were terrible and it wouldn't really matter if the performance was adequate. Have they made inroads on the software front? Reply
tipoo - Friday, May 03, 2013 - linkStill very slow updates. Reply
Torashin - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkIf we're going to play that game, the AMD 7660D (5800k GPU) got a score 4.3 times better than the intel HD 4000 on 3Dmark 11. So you can either claim that the Haswell GPU is 2.5 times than Ivy Bridge and still only half as good as Trinity, or it really isn't anywhere near twice as good. Either way, AMD wins. Reply
formulav8 - Friday, May 03, 2013 - linkThis will be Intels 4th gen or 3rd or something and the earlier 4k series still couldn't beat amds 1st gen iirc. Maybe Intel can claim they beat out AMD's 1st gen fusion or something now? Reply
HisDivineOrder - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkIt won't be long before Iris LE and Iris Lite and IrisL and Iris MX show up to help bring Iris down to the masses with the same old Intel HD graphics of old. Reply
Spunjji - Friday, May 03, 2013 - linkThat is, indeed, Intel's usual style. Reply
Jumangi - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkUntil Intel commits to vastly improving their pathetic driver support this announcement doesn't mean squat to me. AMD and Nvidia know that great graphics has 2 parts to it. So far Intel choses to ignore one of them. Reply
Frenetic Pony - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkBoth impressive and disappointing, nice improvement but I'm vastly disappointed in how restrictive the TDP and chip levels are. I'd love to see a 5200 or 5100 in a much lower TDP set. If a Haswell CPU can get down to a 10 watt TDP for a core i5 I don't think an underclocked 5200 in a 17 watt TDP would be too much to ask.
Basically, a Core i5 is all I need for CPU power. My current Ivy Bridge Core i5 is as fast as I need, for games or lightroom or etc. The GPU on the other hand still struggles with anything beyond the most basic games. If Intel won't do it I have hope Nvidia will. I'd love to see a dedicated Nvidia mobile card fit into a 10 watt core i5 and a 13" ultrabook, whatever that would require. Reply
l_d_allan - Friday, May 03, 2013 - linkLiterally a "war story" ... I worked on a project in the 80's on Silicon Graphics ** Iris ** workstations doing Star Wars simulations. Smart pebbles and brilliant rocks. Hypercube supercomputer back-end. Bleeding edge. Reply
glugglug - Friday, May 03, 2013 - linkThe extremely limited variation of GT3e parts makes me wonder if they are planning to have super high pricing and low availability of this like with the Pentium Pro when there were yield issues having the L2 cache on chip. Reply
Mastadon - Friday, May 03, 2013 - linkPlease help me understand....will the top-of-the-line GT3e 5200 graphics be available on desktop motherboards? Reply
tipoo - Friday, May 03, 2013 - linkOn non socketed BGA parts, yes. Reply
Mastadon - Friday, May 03, 2013 - linkBGA is a type of socket. You mean only on the BGA socketed CPUs with the 'R' numbered CPUs like Core i7 4770R ? I hope so. Reply
Azyx - Tuesday, May 07, 2013 - linkBGA (NON-socketed) It means you will have to buy it soldered in the motherboard. That's what BGA stands for. Reply
hellcats - Friday, May 03, 2013 - linkAh, shades of Silicon Graphics (SGI). I'm staring at two SGI IRIS Indigos stacked on top of one another because I just can't bear to throw them out; they brought me so much joy. Glad to see the IRIS name associated with 3D graphics again. Reply
DanaGoyette - Saturday, May 04, 2013 - linkNow, if only Intel would support 30-bit (10-bit per channel) color and 120Hz refresh rates on displays... Reply
karamazovmm - Saturday, May 04, 2013 - linka bunch of workstation and gaming machines would be thrilled by that Reply
Talaii - Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - linkI've run a 120Hz display off an intel IGP before. Just have to use Displayport, since I haven't seen any intel motherboards with dual-link DVI ports. Reply
Polacofede - Saturday, May 04, 2013 - linkis this a tech article or an advertisement? looks like the later to me...
lot of missleading graphs and no real facts Reply
Azyx - Tuesday, May 07, 2013 - linkI just can't wait to see how those new HTPC with haswell GT3e is going to be. (that was a good rhyme btw) Reply
Oberoth - Saturday, May 11, 2013 - linkI will be upgrading from a very old system but want to wait for either Volcanic Islands or Maxwell for a graphics card.
So the question is, what is faster my AMD Radeon HD 4870 512mb or the Intel HD 4600 on the 4770k?
Next question, as i am pretty sure Intel will not have managed to compress an entire high-end (ish) video card from 2008 into a few transistors on a CPU, can i still use the OpenCL power of the Haswell chip if i have my old discrete card plugged in? I remember on early Sandy Bridge reviews you could only use QuickSync if you had a monitor plugged into Intel's video outputs. Reply
hspl - Thursday, August 15, 2013 - linkThat's what I thought as well. The performance gap definitely suggests it. And I must say that's a very high SKU number for a non Extreme line product. Reply
systemBuilder - Tuesday, August 05, 2014 - linkI am pretty certain Iris was SGI's earliest brand of Workstation. Your knowledge of history is really, really sad. For 15 years post-1985, SGI rocked the graphics world, they invented OpenGL and also STL which is how most C++ programs get written quickly these days .. Reply


text:
Did you know?
The Big Hole is 214 metres deep and has a perimeter of 1.6km.
The vintage Kimberley tram dates back to a time when the town was the 'bright lights, big city' of Africa. Prospectors from the far corners of the world made their way to diamond-rush Kimberley and transformed a hill where diamonds were discovered in 1871 into the historic Big Hole.
Retailers, drinking spots, houses, gambling joints and dance halls sprang up around the Big Hole and Kimberley became a magnet for adventurers, swindlers, rogues and ladies of the night. By 1887, when the tram first started transporting people to the ever-expanding Big Hole, the town was flourishing.
Now you can take the 20-minute ride on the vintage tram around the Big Hole. The tram is painted orange, as it has always been, and has been well maintained with its original wooden seats and steering on both sides.
Tickets are sold on the tram which starts at the Kimberley Mine Museum situated in original and meticulously reconstructed buildings. Here you can experience what it was like for the original diamond miners to go down a mineshaft in a lift or 'cage'. Simulated dynamite explosions add to the realism.
The Kimberley Mine Museum is home to the Eureka, the first diamond discovered in the region and arguably the single most important gem in South Africa's mining history.
The tram heads from the museum past historical features such as the original mining shaft and the authentic West End bar. The tram journeys round the Big Hole to the viewing deck where visitors have a visceral view into it, before making its way back again.
Travel tips & Planning info
Who to contact
Sol Plaatje Tourism Department (the official name of the Kimberley municipality is the Sol Plaatje Municipality)
Tel: +27 (0)53 830 6272
121 Bultfontein Road, Civic Centre, Kimberley
Email: email@example.com
How to get here
Kimberley is approx. 470km from Johannesburg. Either drive or fly to Kimberley and hire a vehicle from here.
Around the area
Ghost tours, diamond field tours and a trip to the site of the Battle of Magersfontein are a few of the many outings available from Kimberley.
What will it cost
A vintage tram ride costs R20.
Length of stay
Spend about three days in Kimberley if you can, to take in the sights and to enjoy the history of the town and the surrounding nature reserves.
Where to stay
Kimberley has a number of luxury hotels, but the B&Bs and guesthouses in the historic part of town, many of them in buildings dating back to the diamond days, come highly recommended.

subset: commoncrawl


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Hi there. As a former user of this wiki, during my times of editing here, I was always bothered by the fact that the Pokémon articles were rather disorganized and don't correspond with each other. Before I get into the subject, I know the wiki is going through a lot of change, and this is really not the perfect time to suggest a layout for articles when they are more important matters that need to be dealt with; this is for users who just want to edit the wiki and not get involved with discussions or for those who have free time and want to do something.
Anyways, I have made my decision to suggest a layout for the articles. Keep in mind, this is my opinion - I don't mind criticism, in fact I recommend some criticism as it would benefit the wiki a lot.
The Pokémon articles are a crucial part of the wiki - it is very important to keep these updated and organized. With it being cluttered and... eww..., you're risking the wiki's popularity as these will often be the first thing viewers will look at. With Generation VI on their way, new Pokémon are being revealed. It is the perfect time to create a layout before the wiki ends up doing more work after all the new Pokémon are revealed. Plus, if the wiki has a layout created, creating the articles would be a breeze and all the focus would only really be at the other 649 Pokémon (less work).
Okay, this ends the wall of text (but be warned for more). Here are my suggestions. At the end, I shall discuss the importance of each section.
{{PokéBox |name = name in English |jname = Japanese kanji, translation |image = image name |ndex = number in national PokéDex |ndexprev = previous Pokémon by number |ndexnext = next Pokémon by number |dexkanto = number in Kanto |dexjohto = number in Johto |dexhoenn = number in Hoenn |dexsinnoh = number in Sinnoh |dexunova = number in Unova |dexunova = number in Unova |dexmokalos= number in Mountain Kalos |dexcekalos= number in Central Kalos |dexcokalos= number in Coastal Kalos |evointo = next evolution |gen = Generation # |species = Sharp Blade Pokémon |type = primary type |type2 = secondary type |imheight = in ' , " |metheight = in m |imweight = in .lbs |metweight = in kg |ability = Abilities |dw = Dream World ability |color = Color |male = # |female = # }} {{PAGENAME}} is a Pokémon introduced in [[Generation #]]. ==Biology== ===Physiology=== ===Abilities=== ===Behavior=== ===Habitat=== ===Gender differences=== ==Evolution== ==Game data== ===Statistics=== ===Pokédex entries=== (including side-game) ===Locations=== (including side-game) ===Learnset=== ====Leveling==== ====TM and HM==== ====Egg moves==== ====Tutoring==== ====Special moves==== ===Sprites=== ==Appearances== ===Anime=== ===Manga=== ===TCG=== ===Other=== ==Trivia== ===Etymology=== ===Names in other languages=== ==Gallery== ==References== (navigation templates)
This is a very standard layout, and it's very hard - for me anyways - to differentiate with other competing wikis. Changing the words might help, but for now, I'll just go with the flow, since I'm not the best at vocabulary.
What these sections represent:
- The first bit (prev/next and Pokébox) are pretty explanatory
- The short summary should only ever include the major points of the subject. It should not include other things that are better off in other sections (such as "Pikachu is one of the main Pokémon in the anime", which is better off mentioned in the anime section). Basically, it should only include: the name, typing, and evolution. Often times, other major points such as being a mascot (Pikachu) or version mascot could be listed here.
- Biology, a very detailed description of who the Pokémon is (Physiology), its abilities, behavior, habitat, gender differences, and evolution line. The "Physiology", "Behavior", and "Habitat" usually come in the Pokédex entries.
- I wasn't sure if "Evolution" should be under Biology or under its own section. I'll leave that up to you. Furthermore, regardless of who the Pokémon is, whether it has an evolution or none, this should always be listed to correspond with other articles.
- Game data (self-explanatory)
- Firstly, I wasn't sure if this should be the first point of appearances. It's a big section, and sometimes it's better to put the big sections last. But also, after all, it is the first thing introduced in the whole franchise. Plus, it differentiates with other wikis. Opinions on this? Please don't hesitate to respond.
- Basically anything that is in the Pokémon series; other games such as Smash Bros. should belong in the "Other appearances" section
- Statistics: base stats (though it's already mentioned in the Pokébox, so ignore), side-game stats and info, held items, and possibly type effectiveness
- Pokédex entries (self-explanatory): main and side game entries
- Locations (self-explanatory): main and side game locations
- Learnset (self-explanatory):
- Level up moves (I believe all learnsets should be merged together as it could be a hassle trying to navigate to other pages, especially for slower computers or people who aren't very good at navigating through other pages)
- TM and HM (same as leveling)
- Egg moves (same)
- Tutoring (same)
- Special moves: basically the Pokémon given out in events, who are given moves that are normally not learnable by other means. This section does not have to be placed if the Pokémon doesn't have any special moves.
- Sprites (self-explanatory)
- Anime appearances (self-exp)
- Manga appearances (not sure if the wiki still does Manga stuff)
- TCG appearances (not sure if TCG stuff are even in the wiki)
- Other appearances: basically other video games (Smash Bros.), other cartoons (not the anime), etc.
- Trivia (self-exp)
- Etymology: who the Pokémon is based off in the real world, name of origin, etc.
- Names in other languages (self-exp): section name could be shortened
- Gallery (self-exp)
- References (self-exp)
- Nav templates
There are sections that could be place elsewhere (specifically the "Game data" section). I just wasn't sure where or if this is better. I don't know. Basically, I just listed these in the order of importance (biology, games, anime, all the way to the least important sections). This is my suggestion. Any criticism, please say something. Bermuda • Triangle • 18:14,7/8/2013
Project discussion
It looks quite long, and I fear most of it would be ignored. Plus, some templates might need re-organization to have it look better. Maybe there needs a team of users to proceed this in action, like a Project. Energy X 18:41, July 8, 2013 (UTC)
How strange! Just this morning I started working on a guide for the layout of pages on the wiki because it seems to be a problem. I shall take your ideas and the support of it from users and possibly use it in the proposed guide (as I said I started it this morning on my work page and due to this it is very incomplete). Rainbow Shifter 18:46, July 8, 2013 (UTC)
This is something that should be done after the games come out and there's more of a calm state in the wiki for us to focus on this. Currently we should be more focused on making sure we get all the information about the pokemon that are being released. Were we to go through with this we should not do so until the game comes out. – Jazzi (talk) 19:48, July 8, 2013 (UTC)
By waiting until the games release, you would have wasted those 3 months we are given from revamping the most viewed and essential articles of the wiki. The Pokémon articles are as important as Pokémon X and Y. By revamping the 649 Pokémon articles we have now, there would be more focus on X/Y content after the games release. Keep in mind that even after the games release, the other 649 Pokémon articles need to be updated with X/Y content; you might as well revamp other parts of the articles now so there's less work that needs to be done in the future. Not to mention if there is a layout already in hand, creating new Pokémon articles would be a breeze where you could simply just copy and paste the layout into the new articles. Also, there are users out there, such as myself, who would like to help out in accomplishing this goal. Bermuda • Triangle • 22:10,7/8/2013
Can you tell us how many users? A handful wouldn't be a good force, a pack should be enough. Energy X 22:22, July 8, 2013 (UTC)
I think I like the idea for adding the Etymology and Names in other languages sections might work out on the wiki, I do really think that theres about a few Etymology stuff from Trivias should be consider to be moved Etymology section.-- http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k576/DigiPen92/ChromLordFE13MapIconpng_zps2c4cf18b.png King Marth 64 (talk • other wikis • blogs) 22:52, July 8, 2013 (UTC)
One shouldn't look at the amount of users working on a project. Each person works at a different pace. But this is not the point of the forum. The point is to create a layout and use it in the time being before the new games arrive. If one were to work on 20 Pokémon articles per day, this project can be finished in approximately 30-40 days, 10 would be at least 2 months. Getting it done ASAP is the best way to improve the contents of the wiki, and I might actually finally use this wiki as a source of information, no offense btw. Bermuda • Triangle • 00:57,7/9/2013
You're not selling me on anything when I can't figure out what message goes to what user seeing as it doesn't indent anywhere. And if you "might actually finally use this wiki as a source of information", perhaps you shouldn't have become an admin if you were going to retire, come back, and be bitter. – Jazzi (talk) 01:22, July 9, 2013 (UTC)
- I speak for myself when I say this: I'm not objective to this layout, in fact it's a good layout and it would benefit our articles. However, without wanting to get in depth, it's very unlikely I can do much on this project because I've gotten sick again. – Jazzi (talk) 01:32, July 9, 2013 (UTC)
- I apologize for getting out of context. Since it is summer vacation for me (and possibly until late September), I have become re-active in other wikis that I went on hiatus (though there isn't much work since one of them was canceled indefinitely). I could potentially be a "replacement Jazzi" and put forth the work. I have my interest on Pokémon right now, and I have decided to put all my work on Pokémon (specifically only on the Pokémon articles). These articles are a major concern to me. By getting it out of the way before the new games release, there's less work that needs to be done. Plus with "Pokemon Wiki" being the first website when searched on Google, it's highly possible that most new users come here first. Therefore, putting up a good impression now can allow those new users to stay and use this as a source of information regarding the new games. After all, the point of making a wiki is to be resourceful; and by being resourceful, you'll have more users, which some may consider joining the wiki. Bermuda • Triangle • 02:17,7/9/2013
- If I can have some support on starting this project, I will be happy enough to start within today or tomorrow. Bermuda • Triangle • 20:12,7/9/2013
- Oh and if supported by the community may I have your permission to copy and paste the layout and info into the proposed Layout Guide? Rainbow Shifter 21:47, July 9, 2013 (UTC)
- If I can have some support on starting this project, I will be happy enough to start within today or tomorrow. Bermuda • Triangle • 20:12,7/9/2013
- Furthermore, I would like your opinions on the placement of "Evolution" section. Is it in the right place? Would "Evolution" be better off in its own section or along with the Biology? Also, are any of the section names appropriate? If yes, please change it to differ from other wikis. :P I'm not great at vocabulary. Anything else that needs to be adjusted? Also, is anyone planning to change the templates? I don't mind any changes to the templates since it's not important to me right now as the first step is to re-format the articles. Bermuda • Triangle • 23:03,7/9/2013
What does Physiology and Behavior cover? And I don't think names should be covered, a interwiki link should suffice. Also, it would be better to shorten the Appearances, like this:
... ==Appearances== ===Anime=== ===Manga=== ===TCG=== ===Other===
- "Physiology" is the study of the functions of living organisms and their parts. Basically, you're explaining what the Pokémon is like and their appearance. The "Behavior" is how the Pokémon acts (ie: Leavanny being parental and always making clothes for small Pokémon); this bit is usually taken from the Pokédex. As for the names, not all the wikis are completely done or active enough to add all of the Pokémon; though, I don't know. They're just names and is usually not that important, so you can potentially leave that out until someone gets to it. Bermuda • Triangle • 02:50,7/10/2013
- Well I was thinking of leaving Evolution under its own heading because thats what we do already and it works pretty well. Also I am thinking of omitting the "In the TCG" section due to the fact that we don't really do TCG information here. I mean, I would like to but I think it would be better to wait until everything is cleaned up before starting any new type of pages. Rainbow Shifter 11:01, July 10, 2013 (UTC)
- Yeah, half of the stuff on the layout aren't available yet. The only real focus we have to do on the layout is complete the "Biology" and "Game data" sections as those are the main info. The "Anime appearances" is already available to us so all we have to do is just move it to the appropriate section. So that leaves us with much easier work, but it still is a lot of work because of learnsets, and we could do something different from Bulba (who uses multiple pages for learnsets). Furthermore, the side-game data could be omitted too. Finalization of the revamp is when we add all the info, and that's when we finish the main stuff. Bermuda • Triangle • 16:12,7/10/2013
Aside from my vacation, I'll be able to help out with this. – Jazzi (talk) 16:52, July 11, 2013 (UTC)
Article discussion
Would it be wise to break apart some tasks, such as one works on Biology, one works on Game data, another on learnsets, etc.? It might be too much work to handle for one article, so breaking it apart might make it easier on one user + they'll be familiar with the structure of their department (ie: learnset templates). I'll be gladly to take my part in the learnset section. I'm not so great at describing Pokémon (excuse me for my low vocabulary T_T). Anyways, for those who have too much time on their hands, you could reformat the articles by moving sections around. Bermuda • Triangle • 19:55,7/11/2013
Template changes and discussion
Are the templates going to be changed? I noticed a few errors on Template:PokéBox with the Fairy coloring, but it's locked so I can't fix it. But I also noticed that on its talk page that it's going to be updated - but that was a month ago. Has that ever been pushed forward? If it's not, the template should look clean for the time being so it's not all awkward for Fairy Pokémon. Also, what was the idea of changing the template? Is it going to be like how I created a new PokéBox for the new wiki, this design, albeit a little different? Personally, I still like the design, and I'll be happy enough to update it so it differs from the new wiki. Bermuda • Triangle • 16:37,7/11/2013
- Yes, the templates are going to be changed. I was in the process of changing it but I had things I had to worry about. And no, I'd prefer the one that you designed for Marriland to not be used. I've been meaning to continue updating the templates, and various other things here, however I have a few things that I have to do: A Link Between Worlds is in the making so I have to do some things at Zeldapedia. X and Y are coming out, I have things to do here. In addition to various updates I've been trying to do. It's also my summer vacation, and I've a few games I want to play. So... – Jazzi (talk) 16:58, July 11, 2013 (UTC)
- Very well. While we're on the subject of PokéBox, in the meantime, could you double check it to add the Fairy coloring to the appropriate part as it has been misplaced into the "color" part rather than "background". Also, the text-color of the headers are the same color as the background color, so it would need to be changed into a darker color. Bermuda • Triangle • 17:04,7/11/2013
- I will be fixing it when the template gets updated. – Jazzi (talk) 17:33, July 11, 2013 (UTC)
- As much as I didn't want to do this, I did it anyways: User:Bermuda/Sandbox5. The info is pretty generic to other wikis, and there's really no way to differentiate what goes on the template, other than where to place the info on the template. The style, I just went with my flow and creative juices; I kept the full-width-page design to keep it different from other wikis. I don't expect it to be used. Just wanted to share it, incase you need some inspiration, or something. It's just a design, so there's no parameters or anything like that. Bermuda • Triangle • 17:09,7/14/2013
- It's actually really nice, I prefer the one on top over the one on bottom 100%. If you could adjust it so that it works with the colors for the template, if you do want it to be used for an actual template, then it could be used. We would have to adjust the anime infoboxes though. – Jazzi (talk) 18:30, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
- Okay, I'll gladly work on it later today. In the meantime, usually there's a disagreement on one part of the templates I make, so if you spot anything that you disagree on, then by all means share it with me and I'll try to work around it. I could see something about the Gender part (wasn't sure if I should go with what I had on the sandbox or keep the way it has been). Also, for the pronunciation, wasn't sure where to put that since I tried to make sure it wasn't like how Marriland did it with the pronunciation under the artwork. I'll also work on the anime template (I'll try to just change the design, so there wouldn't be any change to any pages). Bermuda • Triangle • 18:49,7/14/2013
- It's actually really nice, I prefer the one on top over the one on bottom 100%. If you could adjust it so that it works with the colors for the template, if you do want it to be used for an actual template, then it could be used. We would have to adjust the anime infoboxes though. – Jazzi (talk) 18:30, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
- As much as I didn't want to do this, I did it anyways: User:Bermuda/Sandbox5. The info is pretty generic to other wikis, and there's really no way to differentiate what goes on the template, other than where to place the info on the template. The style, I just went with my flow and creative juices; I kept the full-width-page design to keep it different from other wikis. I don't expect it to be used. Just wanted to share it, incase you need some inspiration, or something. It's just a design, so there's no parameters or anything like that. Bermuda • Triangle • 17:09,7/14/2013
- I will be fixing it when the template gets updated. – Jazzi (talk) 17:33, July 11, 2013 (UTC)
- Very well. While we're on the subject of PokéBox, in the meantime, could you double check it to add the Fairy coloring to the appropriate part as it has been misplaced into the "color" part rather than "background". Also, the text-color of the headers are the same color as the background color, so it would need to be changed into a darker color. Bermuda • Triangle • 17:04,7/11/2013
- I think everything is good. The only thing is egg groups should be on different lines, which is an easy fix. I think we should just get rid of the pronunciation because there's always room for that to be wrong. – Jazzi (talk) 19:35, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
- I got everything changed. I tested it out to see what will be different after the change, User:Bermuda/Test. Everything should be intact and all the major stuff should be already added. The minor things might need to be changed or added. I've listed what has been added, changed, or removed. Other than that, all the parameters are the same, except weight and height. In the process that this does go through, "backcolor" and "border" need to be removed as they have been replaced with "type" and "type2", and also the "type" section needs to be adjusted due to the old style using Template:Type and the new style has the template already added. Also, I apologize for doing this because you were the one who was going to do it. I do this to keep my creativity going, or when I'm bored. :P Bermuda • Triangle • 22:13,7/14/2013
It would be wise to insert this template as well. It seems unecessary to have it split into two separate templates. Energy X 23:44, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
- Alright, the final approval of this would be to edit the old one and replace with the new one on Template:PokéBox. Also, can you temporarily remove the protection in case I ever need to adjust something?
@Energy X: I'm not so sure about that. It's already in the articles, so I don't think it's necessary. Plus, it's really simple to add to an article anyways. IMO, I believe it should be treated as a separate template. But if anyone objects, well okay. Bermuda • Triangle • 00:38,7/15/2013
- I personally think it'd be good to have them both in one template, but I'm also one for being lazy. And with that template, it goes on both the top and the bottom, so yeah, would probably be best to keep it separate. – Jazzi (talk) 08:41, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
- TL;DR, read bold.
- The Ground Pokémon category seems to work now, but the only problem is that it was added to every other Pokémon page. But good news, we can simply fix that like what I did to the Gloom page. So after we fix the templates, the Ground Pokémon category should be gone from non-Ground Pokémon pages.
Also, the only real problem with the new style is the "Single and Dual-type" categories. I'm not familiar with #pos, and hopefully we can resolve this issue. I have a feeling we'll have to manually insert those categories however. Thirdly, since Body style has been added, the Body style categories can be added to the template; all we need are the body style images.
The Evolution categories are now useless in the template since the "evofrom" and "evointo" were removed. But we can simply resolve that issue by making an Evolution template and having those categories added.
Lastly, the Region categories. I see no point in them. For one thing, they're a duplicate from the Generation categories. Secondly, users might confuse it with a category about "Pokémon that appear in Kanto, etc." I might re-add the "gen" parameter somewhere on the template, so the Generation categories are still operational.
Other than that, everything should be working! We can begin fixing things. ^_^
But before we fix it, we need to move the "stat" stuff, and I'm currently making a template for it.EDIT: I'm keeping the stats stuff on the template until we can make a PokéBox template for it (meaning I won't remove the info on the template until we can get a template for it). Kind of stuck on how we could display the statistics section (artist block, yeah), since it'll have more than just Pokémon stats (Pokeathlon stats, side-game stats, etc.). Plus, as I have mentioned on #Article discussion, I think it would be better to separate sections to a user, so it's not too much work to handle on one user doing every section (plus, they'll be more familiar with their department). I kind of want to get with the Learnset section asap, since I'll have to go through page to page finding info, moving the template from another page, adjusting, and/or tagging a learnset page for deletion (such as Bulbasaur/Learnset Generation I). Bermuda • Triangle • 20:08,7/15/2013
- I personally think it'd be good to have them both in one template, but I'm also one for being lazy. And with that template, it goes on both the top and the bottom, so yeah, would probably be best to keep it separate. – Jazzi (talk) 08:41, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
Permission to use these templates (well soon-to-be templates). I've also updated the looks for the "Leveling" template to match with the others. Bermuda • Triangle • 21:36,7/11/2013
- Those templates will have to be adjusted after the PokéBox template is adjusted. So don't implement them yet, since that'd be a waste. – Jazzi (talk) 22:00, July 11, 2013 (UTC)
- With the template finished, I've made some adjustments to the learnset templates. I haven't implemented them as templates yet, so before I start with my part of the project, is there anything that the learnset templates need? I'm adding contest category stuff too since I didn't add it. Bermuda • Triangle • 23:02,7/15/2013
Pages with Missing Templates
I've seen some pages, especially the move pages, where they do not have their required templates. Something should be done about this. I'm pretty sure the viewers will be completely confused about this.--OmegaRasengan (talk) 21:31, July 31, 2013 (UTC)
Voting (+4)
This has been approved
- Support: Well, the deal is that the sooner we are, the less work we need to do. In addition, people can follow the examples from other pages if they do not know what kind of layout they want to write for Gen. VI Pokémon. Energy X 21:05, July 9, 2013 (UTC)
- Support: Per my comments above. Rainbow Shifter 21:45, July 9, 2013 (UTC)
- Support: I think this might work out.-- http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k576/DigiPen92/ChromLordFE13MapIconpng_zps2c4cf18b.png King Marth 64 (talk • other wikis • blogs) 03:05, July 10, 2013 (UTC)
- Support: While I can't help with it, you have my permission to go through with it. – Jazzi (talk) 13:14, July 10, 2013 (UTC)
Anime Section
I suggest to move the anime section to the top.People won't go to see the bottom of the page.We should be facilitating them by having the anime section at upper part of page.


text:
Officially Licensed Ohio State Buckeyes Fan Girl Doll
A FIRST! Officially-licensed Ohio State Buckeyes child doll by artist Adrienne Brown. Buckeyes outfit with team logo and colors. Poseable.
Measures 10" H;
From The Ashton-Drake Galleries
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- Measures 10" H; 25.4 cm H
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|Forums: Index → Narutopedia Discussion → Banbutsu Souzou mistaken for the sage's version of Izanagi;
There has been an interpretation mistake ever since the proper translation of Naruto 510's "Shocking Forbidden Jutsu". The proper translation says, Quote: "the Izanagi technique was Originally a practical application of the Sage of Six Path's Creation of All Things". Which explains that Rikudou Sennin used Izanagi as the practical application of Banbutsu Souzou "creation of all things", which means Banbutsu Souzou itself was Impractical and inapplicable. So, Banbutsu Souzou could not of possibly created the bijuu, without the ability to be practical(Capable of or suitable to being used or put into effect; useful:) or applicable(capable of being applied; having relevance) when it comes to using ninjutsu or genjutsu.
So if the sage, who uses ninjutsu and genjutsu, could not apply or make "creation of all things" practical. Then how was it able to be used or applied to create the bijuu if its not useful or applicable? The whole reason the Sage probably created Izanagi from banbutsu souzou is because its a jutsu with no real world application or practicality. Thus why Izanagi is the topic of the chapter "Shocking forbidden technique", mentioned four separate times as well as creation, while banbutsu Souzou was merely mentioned one time, vaguely.
I understand how the translation could be misinterpreted. Japanese is a pain in the butt. However, the jutsu Tobi was describing to Konan was in fact Izanagi, but the sage's version. This is confirmed by tobi's "let me tell you a little about MY JUTSU and myself", which is Izanagi, not banbutsu Souzou, along with his attainment of Hashirama;s abilities by taking his cells. As well as the explanation of danzou's Izanagi as "incomplete due to inability to control Hashirama's power". Which is why the incomplete Izanagi can take reality (such as a real attack) and turn it into an illusion or dream (making the real attack into merely an illusion which is why danzou was not harmed). While Tobi describes the Sage's Izanagi as the power to bring Imagination to life. which is opposite of what the incomplete Izanagi used by danzou that makes something real into an illusion. Not Vica versa.
You do not have to take my word for it. Reread the chapter 510 and see for yourself. IMO, Izanagi is the jutsu Tobi is explaining the history of, how it works and what it has done. Not banbutsu Souzou due to its impracticability as well as being inapplicable for ninjutsu or genjutsu, which the sage used.
My best analogy to describe a similar situation is through "that jutsu". Naruto has a jutsu called "that jutsu" his father created. But, It is an impractical and inapplicable version of the jutsu naruto will make from it we will just call "Flying Kyuubi sage jutsu". Just as the sage created a jutsu called banbutsu souzou. But, because of its impracticability and being inapplicable. The sage created a whole new jutsu from it that was a practical and applicable version called Izanagi.
Its not that great, but it explains what I am trying to say.
(Things that show Tobi is explaining Izanagi, not banbutsu Souzou)
- Izanagi's the jutsu tobi used right before explaining it to konan. It was her lack of knowledge and confusion as to how Tobi could have did what he did that was the premise for the explanation of Izanagi in the first place.
- Izanagi is Mentioned four times within two and a half pages while banbutsu souzou is mentioned merely once.
- Tobi starts his explanation with "Izanagi, the power to connect illusion to reality" and ended with "the power to bring Imagination to life, that is IZANAGI".
- The jutsu used to create the bijuu and many other things comes from the power of Uchiha and senju combined as one. The same power it takes to use Izanagi, but one has to be able to control both powers unlike danzou who could not control the senju power.
- The Yin/yang nature elements were explained as Yin being based on the application of IMAGINATION and spirit energy to create shape and form from nothingness. With Yang being the Application of life force and physical energy to BRING THE FORM AND SHAPE TO LIFE. Which is exactly the same explanation of what the sage's Izanagi does. It Brings IMAGINATION to LIFE. Imagination is whats applied as YIN for the creation of form from nothing while "bringing to LIFE" is what the Yang element does through the use of life force and physical energy.
- Danzou's Izanagi is confirmed as a incomplete version which is why it is so limited. So the Actual Izanagi, which was used by the sage Originally, is far more powerful and capable with the ability to bring imagination to life, rather then the incomplete self defense version used to merely cheat death.
- With the "creation of all things" not being practical or applicable. And the sagew of six paths being a ninjutsu and genjutsu user. "creation of all things" could not of possibly created anything with no ability to be practical or applicable as ninjutsu or genjutsu.
Conclusion:I know there will be skepticism, but just reread the chapter for yourself and take into consideration what I have presented here. Approach it with no real preference for either Izanagi or banbutsu souzou as the jutsu being described to try and eliminate bias for one over the other. read the chapter and make your own conclusion based on observation, comparison and consistency to make your own conclusion as opposed to just letting the preconceived notion that banbutsu souzou is what everyone believes is the topic of explanation so it must be true. —This unsigned comment was made by 126.96.36.199 (talk • contribs) .
We've had those panels where Tpbi talks about it translated by someone who knows Japanese, it's correct as is. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:49, July 16, 2012 (UTC)
You are overthinking it too much. The difference between Creation of All Things and Izangi is:
- The former = creation of form through imagination and breathing life into it (simply God hax no jutsu)
- Izanagi = turning reality into illusion and illusion into reality
Simply the former being used to create things, the latter to control existence.--Elveonora (talk) 23:31, July 16, 2012 (UTC)
I also can translate pretty good myself. And the statement on page 11, chapter 510 about Izanagi and banbutsu souzou is something anyone with a translating app could translate lol. Simply finding consistent translations to determine the proper usage of a kanjii or word is the best way to go if you have no Japanese translating skills at all.
Anyways, I am not really over thinking it IMO, but I believe the topic has not been looked into and given the proper method to determine the correct context of the said statement we are discussing. All I was trying to point out above everything else is that if Izanagi was a Practical application of this Banbutsu souzou, then clearly this banbutsu souzou could not of possibly created the bijuu much less anything else besides being the foundation for becoming Izanagi due to its inability to be practical and applicable which is a requirement to be a ninjutsu or genjutsu. Which are all techniques that are practical as well as applicable.
And The manga explains the difference as Izanagi is something the sage used as a practical application of something called banbutsu souzou... Something the chapter mentioned once, vaguely. Meanwhile the entire chapter is about IZANAGI, not banbutsu souzou. Izanagi is mentioned four times to Banbutsu's 1. That alone should have been a warning flag when the idea that banbutsu souzou was thought to be the jutsu tobi was explaining as the creation jutsu that created many things including the bijuu from the ten tails chakra.
IMO, The reason people thought banbusto souzou was the jutsu that created the bijuu and many other things is because it was thought that Izanagi was just a forbidden jutsu of the uchiha that turns reality into an illusion... Yet Tobi clearly explains that Izanagi is actually a jutsu Originally used by the sage as a practical application for some random thing called "creation all things". Izanagi is the power of the senju and uchiha. Izanagi is the power to turn imagination into reality through the use of Yin and Yang AKA Uchiha and senju's powers which is what it takes to use Izanagi in the first place. The incomplete version of Izanagi used by danzou is not Izanagi, but a cheap imitation due to an inability to control hashirama's power.
Without a single panel to even explain what banbutsu souzou "creation of all things" is, other then something Impractical and inapplicable thus impossible to use for ninjutsu or genjutsu with these two qualities. Izanagi needs to get credit for the creation of the bijuu and many things as the manga states itself.
Thank you. Good day... —This unsigned comment was made by 220.127.116.11 (talk • contribs) .
Izanagi affects only one's own state of reality.--Elveonora (talk) 22:00, July 18, 2012 (UTC)
You're the only person I've ever seen to claim that translation. All translators in all forums I visit say the same as we do. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:03, July 18, 2012 (UTC)
Not to mention we are yet to see Tobi "create" something with Izangi ;) As I said, Izangi = turning illusion into reality and reality into illusion. Banbutsu Souzou = turning thoughts into a solid form and breathing life into it.
It's a COMPLETELY different application but similar principle of Yin-Yang release. So6p wasn't a Izanagi user, the technique was developed later by Uchiha ... not to mention Izanagi eats away a Sharingan's light, while Banbutsu Souzou is usable with Rinnegan.--Elveonora (talk) 22:09, July 18, 2012 (UTC)
SO you will just believe something because a majority of people do as well as opposed to taking a look at it yourself and analyzing the context of the translation which has been slaughtered by whoever translated the comment made by tobi.
Ur translator was not wrong about the translation, but the translation was clearly taken out of context.
"The Izanagi Technique was Originally a Practical Application of the Rikudou Sennins creation of all things"
Practical:Adj) "Of or concerned with the actual doing or use of something." Application:Noun) "the act of putting to use or for special purpose"
If Izanagi is the actual use, putting to use of banbutsu souzou as either a ninjutsu or genjutsu for the creation of many things like the bijuu. Then banbutsu souzou can obviously be anything other then impractical and inapplicable.
Impractical: "Not adapted for use or action; not sensible or realistic" Inapplicable: " not capable of being applied, unable to use".
see, with Izanagi as the practical applicable version, then banbutsu souzou can be nothing other then the impractical, inapplicable version which means banbutsu souzou is not adapter for use or action, not capable of being applied or used. These qualities make it impossible for banbutsu souzou to be a ninjutsu or genjutsu which are both practical applications of the ninja's physical skills and illusionary skills. Thus banbutsu souzou could not of possibly created the bijuu without practicality or being applicable which Izanagi, ninjutsu and genjutsu are.
Do you see what I am trying to point out.
Also, Nowhere does it say banbutsu souzou can create form with yin then use yang to breathe life into it... that is what tobi says RS's Izanagi does using the power of the Uchiha/YIN and senju/Yang, turning imagination into reality, AKA using the imagination which is the basis for YIN to create form, shape then using Yang to make the imaginary form and shape reality, thus bringing the imagination to life.. that is the power of IZANAGI. The Izanagi you are thinking of that was used by danzou and tobi is merely an Incomplete version due to the inability to control hashirama's power. Tobi explains Izanagi was Originally used by the sage and for the purpose of turning Imagination into reality the use of the Yin/yang release from Uchiha and senju's powers. All this^^^ is confirmed by the manga. reread the chapter 510, pages 10-12.
And no, if you have read the proper translation then you would know that Banbutsu souzou has no form of application so how can it be a different form of application? "The Izanagi Technique was Originally a Practical Application of the Rikudou Sennins creation of all things" If Izanagi was Banbutsu souzou's practical application then banbutsu souzou was not even capable of being a ninjutsu or genjutsu because both require applicability and practicality as well, which banbutsu souzou clearly did not have by the description of the translation.
I am not trying to create an argument or war over the translation. Just point out the fact the context of the proper translation has clearly been mistaken because everyone believes Banbutsu souzou was used to create the bijuu when the manga explains it was RS's Izanagi as banbutsu souzou's practical application which can bring imagination to life. The exact description of how the bijuu were made.
Just read the chapter over from page 10-12 with the proper translations and take the context and meaning of practical and applicable into consideration and you will see what I am talking about.—This unsigned comment was made by Konoha's Yellow Flash (talk • contribs) .
Wow this is a lot. From what I understand though it works this way. Creation of all things was used along with the Ten-Tail's power to create stuff. Yang to breathe life into the "illusions" created by Yin. Izanami to me is also an application of the Creation of all Things using the Yin side while Izanagi uses both Yin and Yang. That being said, I don't see anything wrong with the Creation article. From what I read in the chapter and in the article, they seem to corroborate. Tobi was referring to Banbutsu Sozo at that point and called Izanagi a practical application of the technique which means it was created to mimic the effects of the technique/derived etc.--Cerez365™(talk) 18:59, July 19, 2012 (UTC)
Tobi uses the complete version of Izanagi and it isn't Banbutsu Sōzō because he is yet to create something with his Izanagi. Neither Edo Madara that has both Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan/Rinnegan and Perfected Hashirama's boob has used Izanagi/Creation of All Things, unless the "Meteorite Technique" was it.--Elveonora (talk) 19:35, July 19, 2012 (UTC)
I'm leaving a link to the translation we got here. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:21, July 19, 2012 (UTC)
But nowhere in the correct translation is banbutsu souzou even stated to do anything at all other then being the foundation for the jutsu Izanagi, as its predecessor.
In order to understand what tobi was explaining about Banbutsu souzou you only have to understand the context of its explanation which is Banbutsu souzou is something the sage used, but izanagi is its practical application version... And in a world of ninjutsu and genjutsu which are both practical and applicable. Banbutsu souzou could not possibly be either due to its lacking practicality and applicability...
The whole reason banbutsu souzou was thought of as the jutsu tobi is explaining is because they already believed that what danzou and tobi used to cheat death was Izanagi. WHich turned out to not be the case...
Canon, as explained by the manga...
Rikudou sage's Izanagi "version#1": "The Oroginal jutsu used by Rikudou sennin as a practical application of banbutsu souzou that was capable of creating many things through the power of the uchiha and senju (AKA YIN and YANG nature chakra) by BRINGING IMAGINATION (basis for Yin) TO LIFE (the result of yang)...
Izanagi version#2: "The UCHIHA"S FORBIDDEN JUTSU"... that does not require the power of the senju and uchiha like its original version used by the sage, ONLY THE UCHIHA'S POWER... and because of this, only being a kinjutsu of the uchiha with just a large use of YIN nature chakra from their Sharingan's. The Uchia's Izanagi is not nearly as powerful as the sage's which is why can only turn reality into an illusion to cheat death.
See, the entire basis for the use of banbutsu souzou as the jutsu that created the bijuu is because of this confusion... However, the manga explained how the two different Izanagi's works and the power it took to use both... ALL that was said about banbutsu souzou for sure is that its an impractical, inapplicable version of Izanagi as its predecessor... AGain, its impossible for banbutsu souzou to do anything without practicality or applicability since those are two qualities required for the use of any ninjutsu or genjutsu which is why banbutsu souzou could not of possibly created anything at all, but Izanagi as its foundation...
Due to this evidence, instead of waiting for the Databook #4 to validate my statement. I think its only right to change the Izanagi page to fit what the manga it self says... There are two versions, the uchiha's forbidden jutsu that only needs the uchiha's YIN nature chakra from their SG to use which turns reality into an illusion... and the Rukudou Sage's Original version that needs the power of both the uchiha and senju to create things by turning Imagination into reality bringing it to life... this also means the banbutsu souzou page should be as vague as its presentation by the manga as just the predecessor of Izanagi...
Again, change your wiki for Izanagi and banbutsu souzou... this site takes pride in its correct presentation of naruto skills, characters, ect ect. Its only right to finally show what the manga explained almost 100 chapters ago. Izanagi created the bijuu, not banbutsu souzou that could not of created anything without practicality or applicability...
Good day....
So what does "creation of all things" refer to? If it was stated: "Izanagi's usage in creation was called creation of all things" then that would make sense, since you say that it wasn't practical... also, are you aware that that would mean that Sage had a Sharingan (which isn't confirmed at all) or that Izanagi is usable with Rinnegan as well?--Elveonora (talk) 16:28, July 28, 2012 (UTC)
What?? Where does it say Izanagi was used as "creation of all things"??? The correct translation, I did thorough research translating too... says that Izanagi ORIGINALLY the "Practical Application" of the rikudou sage's banbutsu souzou (creation of all things). Meaning the sage was the original user of Izanagi and it was a practical application of something called "creation of all things"... but if it was its practical application, then banbutsu souzou itself had to of been impractical and inapplicable meaning it could not of possibly been used as a genjutsu or ninjutsu which is what the sage did as the creator of such techniques...
Practical means, useful, capable of being used, practiced... Applicable means, capable of being applied, can be used, specific use...
All explains Izanagi was a useful, capable of being used, applied, specifically used, version of banbutsu souzou whatever it actually is... WIthout the two qualities of "practicality or applicability", banbutsu souzou could not do anything much less create bijuu as a non-ninjutsu or genjutsu... Both of which are specifically used techniques created by the sage... as practical and applicable themselves.....
And the sage did not show a SG, but its power of YIN nature chakra he did have... WHich is why he was the Uchiha power (YIN nature chakra) and senju power (Yang nature chakra) in one being... Not to mention the Rinnegan is the creation of the uchiha's "true power" SG A.K.A. the Eternal mangekyou sharingan... combined with hashirama senju's power which is Yang nature chakra inherited from the younger son of the sage himself... This was confirmed when edo madara's EMS was transformed into the sage of six paths RG once hashirama's chakra was combined with madara's from complete cell implantation of hashirama's which is why there is a shodai face on edo madara's chest... SHown here in the manga... (madara's EMS transforms into the RG because of what kabuto did to him...[1] The we find out its because whats on edo madara's chest that his EMS became the RG...[2] then its shown that madara is infused completely with shidai, hashirama senju's cells in order to produce his chakra that takes the SG's power to a whole new level.. bringing out its full potential.... which is why he looked at his chest, realizing why he was able to gain the RG from his EMS... [3] SO yes, the sage had the power of the SG (nine tomoe shown on the juubi's eye, three tomoe for each transformation of the SG... SG(3 tomoe)-MS(3 tomoe)-EMS(3 tomoe), thus 9 tomoe SG is its true power...) And the RG can use Izanagi as a Yin+Yang doujutsu of the uchiha+senju... its the power originally used by the sage to perform the true Izanagi that turns imagination into reality, thus bringing it to life...
Remember, banbutsu souzou may be called "creation of all things", but without practicality or applicability... it couldn't possibly create anything. However, its practical application, IZANAGI, can as a ninjutsu/genjutsu capable of creating many things by turning imagination into reality through the power of Yin and yang, aka uchiha and senju's powers... I think with the name of banbutsu souzou translating into "creation of all things" and that people already believed Izanagi was the jutsu used by danzou and tobi to cheat death bu turning reality into an illusion... Because of these^^, it was believed banbutsu souzou was what tobi was referring to as the creation technique used by the sage to create the bijuu and many other things... However, tobi explained rather clearly that he was explaining HIS jutsu, which he just used, Izanagi... explaining the uchiha forbidden technique first... then explaining the sages version he originally used which required the power of the uchiha and senju, unlike the uchiha's kinjutsu Izanagi... through the power of Yin and yang (aka uchiha and sneju powers) the sage could bring imagination to life, creating many many things... like the bijuu...
Also, I am going to keep repeating this so it can sink in with certain people who just are not willing to believe...
Two versions of Izanagi... as explained by tobi in the very chapter about Izanagi called "shocking forbidden technique", which was about Izanagi, not banbutsu souzou which was only mentioned once, vaguely, compared to Izanagi being mentioned over four times... obviously the chapter was explaining what Izanagi can do, not banbutsu souzou...
The two versions of Izanagi, as explained by tobi and manga itself...
Uchiha's Forbidden technique, Izanagi: "Which only requires the power of the uchiha, not senju (unless the length of time of the illusion wants to be extended), which can only turn reality into an Illusion for the briefest of moments.. Thus th euchiha's kinjutsu IZANAGI is not actually a yin/yang jutsu like the sages... if it only requires the power of YIN nature chakra through the use of the uchiha's power of the SG then its only a YIN nature technique...
Rikudou Sage's Izanagi technique: "WHIch requires the power of Uchiha and senju (AKA Yin and yang nature chakra) allowing the user to create things by transforming their Imagination into reality, bringing it to life... This original izanagi is a Yin/Yang technique as opposed to the uchiha's kinjutsu version that only requires the Yin chakra of their SG's...
This^^^ is what was explaining by tobi in the chapter 510... You can check your self... there are two version, each doing two separate things... but RS's version is the original and the most powerful, once used to create even the bijuu... while the uchiha's kinjutsu version is a cheap imitation that only needs the power of the YIN chakra of their SG's to tunr reality into an illusion... However, hashirama senju's power cna be used to extend the length of time the illusion last though... but the jutsu itself is not Yin/yang... like the sage's version.. Yang can be applied to make the illusion more efficient...
umm... okay. You are speculating though, Sage was the "original blood" both Uchiha and Senju, but Izanagi clearly requires eye power and takes away sight, not to mention we are yet to see it being used with Rinnegan, thus ur speculating. Just let it be for the time being, I'm sure Kishi is gonna revisit it.--Elveonora (talk) 19:39, July 28, 2012 (UTC)


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Rice teams take their technology overseas
BY JESSICA STARKRice News staffWith more than $1 million in prizes up for grabs in the Rice Business Plan Competition, there was a lot at stake for the Rice infantAIR team as it's members took the floor to present their technology, "Baby Bubbles," a continuous positive-airway pressure device for aiding infants' breathing. But by then the team had already met its most important judges: the stakeholders in Rwanda who would use the device. "Visiting the neonatal wings of several hospitals and seeing infants who were clearly having difficulty breathing was a very sobering experience," said Jocelyn Brown, the team's undergraduate engineer. "The design team and business team had always been excited about our product, but seeing the need in person made me realize the huge responsibility we had in trying to implement the device. At that point, our course grades didn't really matter -- we had a much larger motivation for designing and commercializing the device."The infantAIR team was part of a unique global health technology commercialization class offered in the Jesse H. Jones Graduate School of Business and taught by Marc Epstein, distinguished research professor of management. Other teams in the class were Life Packs Inc., whose product is a suite of medical backpacks; SmartDrip, whose product is an intravenous-therapy drip monitor; and Easy-Dose, whose product is a clamp to regulate dosing for oral syringes.The technologies were developed by undergraduate students involved in Rice 360°: Institute for Global Health Technologies, which is led by the BioScience Research Collaborative's Rebecca Richards-Kortum, the Stanley C. Moore Professor of Bioengineering and founder of the Beyond Traditional Borders program.This is the second consecutive year four teams made up of four Rice MBAs have traveled to Rwanda with two faculty members to commercialize the innovative health technologies. It is the first year the Rice 360º undergraduates joined each team as technical advisers."Working directly with the undergraduates -- the inventors of the devices -- was so helpful," said Will Pike, an MBA student on the infantAIR team. "Jocelyn was amazing. She fit into our group perfectly, and her technical expertise was complementary to ours about business. She was probably our best presenter too -- she'll ace any business communications course."The collaborative learning didn't stop at the hedges; the teams learned a lot from the Rwanda businesspeople they were working with."We had the opportunity to meet with some of the highest officials in every institution related to health care there," said Vani Rajendran, the engineering undergraduate for the Life Packs Inc. team. "Going to the country was an essential part of developing the business plan. Seeing Rwanda firsthand helped us understand the need for our products as well as the value while also getting a sense of how easy or difficult the technologies would be to implement."Rwanda helped stoke Rajendran's passion for global health. She will travel to Lesotho this summer for a two-month internship through Beyond Traditional Borders to field-test other technologies developed by the Bioengineering Department at Rice.Even the children in Rwanda had something to teach the Rice teams."One weekend, a group of us drove out of the capital to go hiking in the mountains, where we ended up meeting a group of school kids from a local village," Brown said. "We were amazed that many of them spoke English and some even asked for our e-mail addresses. We joked that they were better at networking than we were!"The notion of networking is one that has been impressed upon Pike during his time at Rice. He said that his education at the Jones School has introduced him to so many future business leaders with whom he can see himself collaborating."I think the Jones School did more than give me an education; it showed me how to succeed," he said. "I was able to find the right people at Rice. I have people to count on that I can do business with for the rest of my life."In late summer he'll begin consulting, but he plans to spend the rest of his summer working to get infantAIR commercialized. The team's winnings from the Rice Business Plan Competition -- about $11,750, including first prize for Best Social Venture -- will help the team continue.The teams were advised by Epstein and Maria Oden, professor in the practice of engineering and director of Rice's Oshman Design Kitchen, where the medical technologies were developed. Gale Wiley, lecturer of management communications in the Jones School, also joined the trip and blogged about the experience at http://ricembasinafrica.blogspot.com/.


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When Zenab Ali signed up for the NFTE course, she didn't realize at first that it was the same class her older sister had taken several years ago. Zenab decided not to tell her parents unless she, like her sister, won the business plan competition. Zenab won with Natural Hues, an organic, henna-based hair color for men and women, and when her family found out, they were thrilled.
"Directly after starting on my business plan, I also started working on a science project, which was on whether you could alter the color of henna," says Zenab. "Henna is an organic dye, so it only comes in one color. By altering the pH, I can change that color while still keeping the dye 100% organic and eco-friendly. Lemon juice will degrade the red-orange color of henna and make it blonder. Tea and coffee bean extracts make it different shades of brown."
Zenab was surprised at the range of people who dye their hair. "It seems to be an extremely common practice, ranging from teens going for new looks, to older people covering grays, to men and women who are maintaining a certain look." Because her product is all natural, it doesn't damage the hair and is friendly to the environment. The color lasts about a month and fades slowly and naturally with each wash.
Of being an entrepreneur, Zenab notes, "It helps me deal with chaotic situations without losing my head. It makes me see that everything has a process, and you can't simply jump in." She also looks at the world a bit differently now. "I viewed it as a form of puzzle, where I had to find my way. NFTE has taught me that the world is a canvas for me, to find and conquer my passion."
Before NFTE, Zenab, who plans to be a civil engineer, never imagined that business was in her future. Even when others suggested that she might follow in her sister's footsteps, she thought "probably not." Now she's focusing on getting her website up, settling on a bulk manufacturer for her packaging, and acquiring the necessary licenses. She hopes to attend San Jose State University, where she plans to take courses in chemistry and economics to help better run her business. "I feel such an amazing sense of accomplishment. After doing this, I know anything is possible with hard work and passion."
"Your hard work will always benefit you."


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How much is that dusty collectible worth? Plenty, appraisers say
Published: Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 7:58 p.m.
Last Modified: Sunday, May 19, 2013 at 7:58 p.m.
A wooden clock, a German military emblem and a porcelain candleholder valued around $200 were just some of the treasures presented for appraisal at the Antiques in Your Attic event Sunday.
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Dozens of collectors as well as residents of Brookdale Senior Living went to the Sterling House, 4601 NW 53rd Ave., with their most valued belongings for the event.
The staff of Jeannie's Attic, an upscale consignment shop in Thornebrook, delicately examined each item to determine its value.
The most prized piece brought to the event was a two-book set of illustrations of the Crusades from 1875. The appraisers valued the set from $1,000 to $1,200.
"To have a book that old with the binding still intact was really amazing," Jolie Nantz said.
Nantz runs Jeannie's Attic with her mother, Jeannie Nantz, who started the business 15 years ago.
While no objects were bought or sold at the appraisal on Sunday, several collectors went home inspired by the newfound value of their objects.
Gainesville resident Pauline Wesley brought in a large, green beach bag full of delicate items she suspected to be of high value.
Wesley found the items in an old home she bought several years ago in South Florida. Included in the collection was a candlestick holder with a small tulip-shaped flower in the center. The piece was valued between $175 and $225 by the Nantz team and their antique expert Gary Lamb.
"Oo! I'd sell that now and get my car fixed!" Wesley said when informed of the candlestick holder's value.
But just because an item is valued highly does not mean the seller is guaranteed that price.
"It's not what you have, it's who will buy it," Jeannie Nantz said.
Sellers of collectibles and antiques typically post their values on Ebay or Craigslist as well as taking the items to consignment shops. Duplicates of several items in Wesley's bag could be found online, making it more difficult to sell the items.
Aside from information, the staff from Jeannie's Attic also offered prizes to whoever could most accurately guess the value of several pieces from their shop: a metal bracelet, a Lazy Susan carved with flowers and napkin holder in the shape of a woman.
Brookdale residents sat in comfy chairs watching and telling stories as collectors passed through with their valuables.
Brookdale sales and marketing manager April O'Malley said the center decided to host the event as a new, different activity for residents.
"We've had a really good turnout," O'Malley said. O'Malley plans to bring the Jeannie's Attic appraisers back to Sterling House in the fall.
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