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iBUYPOWER Erebus GT Review: Ivy Bridge and NVIDIA's GeForce GTX 680 in SLIby Dustin Sklavos on 4/27/2012 2:00 AM EST
64 Comments
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fastman696 - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkA single 680 to compair to the 7970 would have been nice to see! Reply
Sabresiberian - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkI agree that it would have been interesting, but I understand too why we didn't see it in this review, which was about systems built by iBUYPOWER and others, and not a direct GPU to GPU comparison test.
;) Reply
Wreckage - Friday, April 27, 2012 - link680 is upwards of 20% faster than a 7970. Reply
CherryBOMB - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkor at least 2x 7970's in crossfire. Reply
Stabgotham - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkCurious how the temps fared with the custom setup... Reply
Stabgotham - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkAt full load, I mean.... Reply
Dustin Sklavos - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkThey're there. Look at the max in the HWMonitor caps. Reply
seanleeforever - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkhi Dustin
is there a reason why you guys review this machine as oppose to, say HP Z1, you know, something every one can buy instead of IBuyPower which only servers US market to the best of my knowledge. is there something so special about iBuyPower systems that you guys just feel the need to cover all of their products? Reply
Hourglasss - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkIbuypower probably sends them the machines to review, HP probably doesn't. That simple. It's not a conspiracy. Reply
Dustin Sklavos - Saturday, April 28, 2012 - linkBasically. Reply
Kimbernator - Friday, April 27, 2012 - link1200w for 2 680s? that's probably not wasteful.
Never buy prebuilt gaming computers, building is cheaper and you'll get better performance. Reply
Sabresiberian - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkWell, Nvidia's recommendations would put the PSU at 750W for 2 680s in SLI.
You need some headroom if you plan to overclock the video cards, but I don't see that requiring another 450W. An 850W PSU should be more than plenty, unless you want room for installing 2 more cards, or 1 more card and plenty of room to OC the 3.
You did read the test results showing max draw to be less than 500W, right?
It's all good to say "never buy pre-built" when you personally have the time and inclination, and I more or less agree with the sentiment, but rigs like this one from iBUYPOWER are very much known quantities - everything in it is name-brand, and the unit itself has been tested here at Anandtech favorably. I wouldn't fault anyone for buying this rig over building his own.
;) Reply
DigitalWolf - Friday, April 27, 2012 - link"We've heard that Ivy Bridge runs hotter than Sandy Bridge does, and I can confirm those findings by comparing the thermal readings from our Sandy Bridge-based Erebus GT against our Ivy Bridge-based Erebus GT."
The images that you have to compare the two systems... show the 2700k system with a maximum vcore of 1.06v and the 3770k with a maximum of 1.36v.
I would expect the system with .3 higher vcore to run "hotter" even if they were the same chip... Reply
Nickel020 - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkThe same screenshot show that +12V is at a maximum of 7.03V... Don't put too much faith into software readings, especially with very hardware there are often errors. Given that the current value is 1.10V during idle, that 1.36V is likely just a freak reading, the VCore will not vary that much. Reply
Nickel020 - Friday, April 27, 2012 - link*with very new hardware there are often errors. Reply
leonzio666 - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkWhere are Metro 2033, Mafia II, Witcher II with ubersampling and Crysis or Starcraft II MP benchmarks ??? No one, and I mean absolutely no one in their right mind would buy such a beast only to play the games tested. Reply
imaheadcase - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkNo one buys a system for just the games YOU listed to. Games are subject to the user, the games they used are POPULAR games so they went with them.
Starcraft MP does not stress a GPU/CPU much. Metro 2033 is not a game many play, Mafia 2 not many play, etc. Reply
jonbanh - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkhmm, i would say starcraft 2 is pretty POPULAR. and if you say it doesnt stress the CPU/GPU enough, well you also have portal 2 up there hitting almost 300 fps. i would've liked to see metro 2033 also just because it's been one of the most demanding games so far. as well as crysis 2
i always figured when systems are given to sites for reviews, the manufacturer provides "guidelines" for what benchmarks they want or dont want shown Reply
Sabresiberian - Saturday, April 28, 2012 - linkOh yeah, popularity is always the top reason a game should be included in a benchmark suite.
Dustin should have included "Angry Birds".
;) Reply
Tchamber - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkWhen do you expect to get the chance to compare 7970s in CF to the 680s in SLI? Reply
Ryan Smith - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkSoon. Reply
randinspace - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkWhat impresses me the most about the system is that iBUYPOWER is actually able to obtain not one, but TWO WHOLE 680s... oh wait a minute tigerdirect has a PNY model at least listed as in stock right now, so I guess anything's possible. Reply
Nickel020 - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkI'm quite disappointed that you pretty much only reviewed performance. The review would have been much better (and up to the Anandtech standard), if you wrote more about the build, the cooling system/noise, the value of the system and support (options). Those are also very important for the purchasing decision, yet you leave many questions open here.
Please provide full information on the build/ the components of the system. What are the components of the watercooling loop? In the other Erebus GT review you talk about the case being based on a NZXT case - why leave that information out here? Also: Please provide more/better pictures! If there were more pictures, I could identify the full watercooling the system. Surely you have someone on staff at AT who could do the same and provide information on whether this is a good setup or not. (One thing they did wrong is to connect the GPUs in series, parallel would have been better in this configuration).
More on noise (incl. measurements & a subjective comparison) would be very nice. You mention it has a fan controller, but make no mention of how it works, and how the system compares to an air cooled high-end system (because at stock settings that's what you're getting the watercooling for: it's more powerful and thus potentially quieter than air - but is it quieter here?). What fans are used, and what is the minimum RPM you can set them to, and is that setting still able to cool the system under full load?
I can understand that you don't know the price yet, but you should still talk about value. Since pretty much all of these parts are retail parts, I would like to see a listing how much it would cost to buy them and assemble the system yourself. How much extra has iBUYPOWER charged in the past over component price? What service/warranty do you get for that? Reply
ggathagan - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkThis is a review of a complete system.
If you want to compare it to DIY, that's *your* job to find out the components.
Call or email IBUYPOWER. Reply
rickmoranisftw - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linki went to ibuypower to mess around with the customization, and i could not find the Z77 platform. Also, i could not find the liquid cooled 680 as an option on any of them. Is this something they are updating soon, or am i just completely missing something? Reply
Denithor - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkWhat benchmark/software do you run to max out power consumption for the load testing? I'm curious because to be valid it would have to be something that maxes both CPU and GPU, otherwise you aren't getting a true load value. Reply
Folterknecht - Friday, April 27, 2012 - link1,36 V for that 3770K max Voltage reported by HW-Monitor - which genius came up with these BIOS-Settings??? Even water cooled - that cant be good in the long run. Every review and forum discussion I read suggests that 4.4 GHz on Ivy is doable with 1,15 - 1,25 V and u start to get serious temp problems if you go above 1,25 V - even water cooled. Reply
nemt - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkI've never heard of someone having a good experience with ibuypower. Everyone I know who's purchased a prebuilt (or semi built) machine from them has regretted it almost immediately.
The specs are nice, but I doubt the built quality is worth the eventual price of admission. Reply
JarredWalton - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkBased on my recommendation, a friend bought one of their systems two years back. It had better specs than Dell or other large OEMs, and the total price for the box was $800. He's been very pleased with the computer and hasn't had any hardware problems at all. It runs quiet and fast, though it's not like he actually pushes it that hard. So there you go: at least one story of someone that bought IBP and didn't regret it at all. Reply
gmallen - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkOur two iBuypower machines have good build quality, all brand-name parts and worked out of the box. Almost two failure-free years later, we are ramping up to buy two more, using the old machines as a media server and an NAS. So, ignore troll and check iBuypower forums for real comments by actual owners. Reply
Money Loo - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkChalk up another two for avoiding iBuypower. As stated before both my brother and I had absolutely horrendous experiences with both build quality and customer support. I would personally avoid them like the plague.
Maybe company computers or reviewers they take care of, but as far as the general public is concerned they are horrible.
Epinions - 2 and a half stars, many negative 1 star reviews
Resellerrating is the first google search and it lists them fairly highly, though.
So really I can only speak for my own personal experience with them, and it was not good twice in a row. To call someone a troll just because they stated their own personal opinion as well seems a bit much. Reply
shin0bi272 - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkIve never done water cooling so forgive me if this sounds stupid but what is going on with that vga cooling? They have one cards cooling coming directly off the cpu and the other directly off the reservoir? Wont that lead to one card being much hotter than the other? Reply
JarredWalton - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkLiquid-cooling allows the cooling medium (water) to store a LOT more energy than air-cooling, with the net result being that as long as your pump has a decent flow rate, it's not a huge concern. By the time the water passes through the CPU and on to the GPU, it might be a few tenths of a degree warmer is all. If you were doing tri-SLI, perhaps parallel would help the third card more, but for 2-way it's not enough to really matter. Here's a lengthy posts someone with more experience put together on the subject:
http://www.overclock.net/t/519131/series-versus-pa... Reply
Nickel020 - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkIt doesn't make much of a (noticeable) difference, but it does show that whoever set up that loop doesn't know all that much about watercooling unfortuantely. So maybe this isn't the only detail they missed - add up a couple of those smaller details in the setup and even if they only are around 0.5C each, together they do make a noticeable difference. Reply
JarredWalton - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkThe general consensus on parallel vs. series water-cooling is split. There are many that say series is better, simply because you don't have to worry about as many factors. To say "they don't know much about water-cooling" is a highly biased opinion, especially since you know nothing about the person/people that decided this was a good way to put together the PC. A more correct statement would be: "iBUYPOWER chose to go series, and since they are knowledgeable enough to build, sell, and support PCs for a lot of customers, we can guess that they did it this way because it costs less, takes less time, and/or the results are close enough that it for this setup it doesn't matter." Reply
Nickel020 - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkThere is no general consensus because unfortuantely, most people don't understand the math behind watercooling. There are a lot of people with poor understanding of the principles, so a lot of sub-optimal choices are made and a lot of sub-optimal "advice" is given.
Parallel will always lead to more flow through the rest of the loop, which will improve CPU temperature, and in a big loop like this, flow is an issue. Serial may lead to better GPU temps, but you're GPU overclock is hardly ever limited by a few degrees, while a few degrees in CPU temp often makes a difference in CPU overclockability (meaning that CPU temp should be prioritized over GPU temp in a combined loop).
Looking around the web a little bit, they also seem to be using a full Koolance setup, and the Koolance radiators are known to be relatively poor performers with normal fan speeds of around 1500 RPM or less:
They're definitely giving away a few degrees with that radiator there compared to other similarly priced rads.
I of course know nothing about the people at iBUYPOWER, but they overclock a CPU that is known to run hot, and run the video cards at stock under water and yet they prioritize GPU over CPU temperature in that detail I named. Given some of the problems in your previous Erebus review, there definitely are several details that can be improved.
PS: Don't get me wrong, the setup is definitely much better than cooling setups offered by HP, Alienware or whatever watercooling loop your local store is likely to build for you. It's definitely a decent setup, but with a few changes it could be a very good watercooling setup. Reply
JarredWalton - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkOkay, there's two topics to discuss here. First, let's talk IVB vs. SNB:
I don't think IVB runs all that hot, particularly with better cooling. I mean, sure, it's a few degrees hotter than SNB at 200MHz lower clocks right now (in the Erebus GT), but unless you're striving for that last 2-3% overclock it doesn't really matter. I think it's more interesting to discuss why "Ivy Bridge runs hot" rather than just making blanket statements. IVB runs hotter than SNB because it's a more dense chip with a new process. It's a tick, and ticks have never been the "must have" upgrades in my book. Two cases in point are Penryn and Lynnfield (our only two "ticks" so far):
Penryn: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2362/4
Lynnfield: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2832
And Lynnfield overclocking: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2838/2
Lynnfield primarily improved performance through enhanced Turbo Boost rather than anything architectural. In many cases, high-end Bloomfield was still faster than Lynnfield (partly because of the tri-channel memory, partly from higher clocks at launch). Penryn was more of a universal improvement over Conroe, but it still wasn't a major improvement in performance.
What both Penryn and Lynnfield--and now Ivy Bridge--did bring to the table was much better power use, especially at load. Lynnfield was a good 40W lower at idle than Bloomfield, and under load it was generally 20-40W less. Penryn was 35W less at idle and nearly 50W less at load (at the same clocks and without widespread use of power gating). Basically, you got more performance for less power, even if the performance increase wasn't all that much.
Personally, I'm not at all surprised that IVB doesn't really overclock better than SNB, and it my be some time before we consistently see any CPU that can hit more than 5GHz on air cooling by your "average Joe" overclockers. SNB is basically right under 5GHz, and I think going forward we'll see wider designs and other IPC improvements rather than higher clocks. Power and heat just start to scale too quickly at higher frequencies, and if you need more voltage to hit those frequencies you end up with a double whammy.
The second is the water-cooling and parallel vs. series. again I refer to the post I mentioned before:
That thread starts with someone suggesting that a parallel configuration could cool 5C better and how much of a difference it would make, and then he uses some equations to "prove" his point. Later, someone responds with additional equations and points out that 5C would be a MASSIVE difference for water-cooling, and that it's more like a <.5C change at most. He ultimately suggests that parallel would likely be better just for the help it gives to the CPU (which is what you're suggesting as well), but how much of a difference does it really make versus the cost?
Actually, that's the biggest variable right there: cost. As you state, the Koolance radiators aren't necessarily the best. I'd wager the pump, waterblocks, etc. probably all fall into the same category. If you want the best possible water-cooling setup you can get, you'd have to spend quite a bit more money. I recently saw a build where the total cost for all the water-cooling kit was around $1000, so consider the following.
The core parts for the Erebus GT IVB setup should cost around $2500, not counting the extra water-cooling accessories. If we assume iBUYPOWER charges around $350 to go from a basic air-cooled setup to the full CPU + GPU water-cooling (that's what I calculated by looking at the $1929 vs. $2529 builds here: http://www.ibuypower.com/Info/erebus-GT.aspx), that would mean they'll probably charge about $2800-$3000 for the build seen here. For that you get a 4.4GHz IVB that runs very fast, paired with a couple GTX 680 GPUs, and you get a factory warranty on everything. If you were to purchase everything yourself and put it all together with a top-shelf water-cooling setup, you'd be looking at closer to $3500. I can't imagine such a build would be able to run even "10% better" than the current iBUYPOWER configuration, as the law of diminishing returns comes into full effect.
So really, all I'm saying is: Sure, the Erebus GT isn't the best water-cooling setup around. What it offers is a good overall configuration, ease of setup (no hassle putting the water-cooling together yourself), and a lower cost than if you were to build your own slightly better performance water-cooled rig. Or if you want to build the same quality rig as the Erebus GT, you'll probably save $150 on all the parts but have to do all the labor yourself, and you lose the 3-year factory warranty. That's the real draw here; not everyone has the time to build their own gaming system. Then again, most of the people that don't have time to build their own gaming system also don't have time for games. :-) Reply
JarredWalton - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkOops. As pointed out below, Lynnfield wasn't a tick; I'm not sure I'd call it a tock either, as it was really just a "delayed, mainstream Bloomfield" which was the real tock. Anyway, nearly everything said about Lynnfield above can easily be adjusted to Westmere in some fashion, but since Westmere for desktops was confined to Clarkdale (dual-core plus HD Graphics) or Gulftown (hex-core LGA1366 with no IGP) it's very difficult to do any direct comparisons.
Nehalem never saw a dual-core 45nm part, and Westmere never saw a quad-core 32nm part. All we can say is that Intel chose to put more cores into LGA1366, and they chose to put a smaller core into LGA1156 with a 45nm IGP on package. I'm not sure you can even try to compare the various options without running into apples and oranges! Reply
Nickel020 - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkAs you see in my reply, I still haven't learned to refresh before posting... Reply
Nickel020 - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkI realize that IVB doesn't run hotter as in consume more power, but runs hotter because through both the die size and the TIM Intel used between die and IHS is simply not able to dissipate heat as well as SNB. Whatever the reason, better cooling does help a bit.
As for your analogies: Lynnfield wasn't a tick if I'm not mistaken, it's on 45nm same as Bloomfield and both are part of the Nehalem family, so they're not really suitable for comparison here.
Penryn on the other hand, especially with the E0 stepping, was a significant improvement compared to Conroe, even a C1 Q9550 is a much better overclocker than a G0 Q6600, and this is what people expected I think.
I would very much like to know how IVB performs thermally without the IHS, that way we can tell how much of the worsened heat dissipation is due to the new TIM and how much due to the smaller die. I got a mind to try it myself (and a little more ;), let's see if I can find the time/motivation…
As I already said, I realize that the difference for the GPUs doesn't matter, and the difference for the CPU is around 0.5C. The math of the OP in your link is obviously wrong, as you already pointed out, water in and water out of a radiator vary only very slightly.
My point was that I knew two sub-optimal choices (rad and GPU connection, parallel would by the way only be a few more bucks for a connector), the leak on your last system and little information to be found in your review/on the web about the rest of the loop, I would be hesitant to recommend this system to someone after reading your review. There are several positives (blocks, pump, large rad area), but too many unknowns for me to judge the quality of the system.
As for your value calculation, that's just what I would have liked to see in the review itself! When buying such a system, I think it's important to know just how much you pay extra for service/warranty. Glancing over the prices I think that they charge a little more extra than you do (I guess you got the air-water difference from the §356 they charge tofor the GT E2 to go from Asetek to custom water-cooling, that's CPU only though). Their watercooling extras vary wildly in price though. They only want $122 extra for the waterblock for the GTX680 but $206 for a 7970 (Koolance itself charges $120/$123). The water-cooling setup in your review sample is worth around $600 btw.
After having played system builder/ tech support for quite a few friends, I definitely see the value of paying extra for pre-tested systems with a good warranty. I know there are often discussions about the value of not having to invest a lot of time into your system, you don't need to convince that they deserve to charge more than the sum of the parts.
PS: There's also the case where you do have enough time to build your system, but then don't have the time to play games - I still have barely touched SC2 ;) Reply
JarredWalton - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkMy "still need to find time to play" list right now includes:
Mass Effect 3
Witcher 2
Fallout: New Vegas
Finish Skyrim
Finish Batman: Arkham City
If we go back to include games I really wanted to play but never got around to (and they're now collecting digital dust), add Bioshock 2, both Knights of the Old Republic games (I'm not even remotely interested in the new Star Wars: the Old Republic MMO, though -- not my type of time sink!), and dozens of others I can't think of right now. Thankfully, at least my work allows me the chance to play more games than most! LOL Reply
UltimateKitchenUtensil - Saturday, April 28, 2012 - linkKoolance does offer low-fpi rads (better for low-speed fans, all else being equal), but not in a 3x140mm format -- so if iBUYPOWER uses only Koolance (because they might have a good relationship), they're stuck with the 30 fins per inch rad Koolance has.
But for flow, that loop won't have a problem, at all -- there are no very restrictive blocks (like those silly motherboard blocks). Rads aren't restrictive, and the Koolance CPU block is a low-restriction component:
Parallel might gain you a few degrees, but in the grand scheme of things it just won't matter. Reply
shin0bi272 - Saturday, April 28, 2012 - linkthanks for the info. I figured that it would make some difference just by the logic of the water passing over the cpu then hitting the gpu. But the flow rate and temp of the water would obviously play a huge role in the raising of the temp. One other question. Where's the radiator (and its fan) on that system? Make that two questions... what is the tube at the back connected to and why? It looks like theres an expansion slot at the top with a connector going to it then connecting to the cpu and top gpu like theres supposed to be an external radiator or something coming out the back... but when you look at the back pic theres nothing coming out. Reply
UltimateKitchenUtensil - Saturday, April 28, 2012 - linkActually, the loop goes:
- Reservoir (in the bottom 5.25" bay)
- Pump (at the bottom of the case, next to the hard drive bays)
- GPU blocks, in series
- 1 x 140 mm Radiator on the back exhaust (that's what the tubes at the back are connected to -- the rad is the black rectangle between the fan and the back wall of the case)
- CPU block
- 3 x 140 mm Radiator in the roof, with the three top fans blowing on it.
- back to the Reservoir.
The tube that goes to the side of the roof, about half way from the front of the case, is for the Fill port, which is the round thing you see on the left side of the top of the case. Reply
UltimateKitchenUtensil - Saturday, April 28, 2012 - linkAnd just for fun, if you wanted to build that loop out of Koolance stuff:
- Reservoir TNK-501 - $80 - http://koolance.com/index.php?route=product/produc...
(there are much cheaper, but less featureful, reservoirs available elsewhere, though)
- Pump PMP-450 - $77 http://koolance.com/index.php?route=product/produc...
(also known as the Laing D5, you can find this pump rebranded by other companies, but $77 is reasonable)
- GPU blocks VID-NX680 - $130 x 2 - http://koolance.com/index.php?route=product/produc...
- 1 x 140 mm Radiator HX-CU-1401V - $50 - http://koolance.com/index.php?route=product/produc...
- CPU block CPU-370 rev. 1.1 - $80 - http://koolance.com/index.php?route=product/produc...
- 3 x 140 mm Radiator HX-CU-1403V - $75 - http://koolance.com/index.php?route=product/produc...
So main components = $622
You could save on the reservoir by going with something simpler (which it seems iBUYPOWER did), like this $35 XSPC:
However, you still need tubing (fairly cheap) and fittings (they get expensive relatively fast.
You need 2 fittings/component (unless they have built-in barbs, like the pump, or you use something like the tube that's between the GPUs).
For that system, you'd need something like 11 fittings, at $6.50 ea. for compression fittings:
+ adapters, the fill port, and video card connectors.
All told, that setup might cost around $750 if you bought the parts at retail. Reply
Wreckage - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkIvy bridge and 680's vs Bulldozer CPU and Bulldozer 7970's. Reply
JarredWalton - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkWhy? To see Bulldozer get manhandled? Here are the gaming results at lower detail settings (e.g. to put the strain more on the CPU). These results are pertinent because when you move to SLI or CrossFire, the CPU becomes more limiting than the two GPUs in many games.
Here's another article that did Bulldozer vs. Nehalem vs. Sandy Bridge all with a single 7970:
Unfortunately, the best the FX 8150 can do against Nehalem i7-920 and Sandy Bridge i5-2500K with a single 7970 is to match it in some titles, while on average even Nehalem tends to match or slightly exceed Bulldozer. That Sandy Bridge 2500K is 9% faster at 2560x1600 with a single GPU is pretty much all you need to know. Ivy Bridge will be even faster still (unless you're into overclocking, in which case it's pretty much a tie), all while consuming less power.
Here's another article on the subject, only with 3-way HD 6970 on i7-2600K and FX-8150. Warning: it's not pretty, unless you like Intel.
http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/4353/amd_fx_8150... Reply
vailr - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkThe Asus Maximus V Formula Z77 board is due for release within the next 2 weeks or so, and includes a built-in water cooling loop for the power choke heat sinks. Would be interesting to see how water cooling with that board would affect overclockability. Will they (iBUYPOWER) be offering an updated Erebus GT using that Z77 board? Reply
UltimateKitchenUtensil - Saturday, April 28, 2012 - linkIt will likely have very little effect -- you can already buy motherboard blocks, but they mostly exist for show -- people just use them because they can. Reply
saf227 - Friday, April 27, 2012 - link"...a solid value and worthy of enthusiast attention."
How can you say it's a solid value when you don't tell us a price? You don't even hint at a price (i.e. "Less than $3K").
So I'm going to ASSUME (since you give me no information to base a reasonable presumption on) that this system costs $25,000. And is therefore a TERRIBLE value. Reply
JarredWalton - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkBased on previous pricing by iBUYPOWER, I'd guess they'll end up charging around $3000. However, we can't really print that since it's just a guess. :-p Reply
awall13 - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkWould be nice to see noise measurements for this water cooled setup. Seems to me that it would be an important consideration for a potential buyer compared to building their own (more likely air-cooled) setup. Reply
ewood - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkNormally I would overlook this little slip up but it is the third time I have heard an anandtech article refer to Lynnfield as a tick when in fact it is a tock. It did not use a new fab process and it did employ a new architecture. Lynnfield was a tock. Get it right, you're a hardware site. Reply
JarredWalton - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkSorry, you're right. I screwed up and looked at Lynnfield. The article has been adjusted, but in my above comment, if you just replace "Lynnfield" with "Clarkdale" not a whole lot changes. Clarkdale was very underwhelming, and Gulftown is highly specialized. I never actually ran either one other than seeing a hex-core Gulftown stuffed into a Clevo X7200. :-\
The problem is that Intel made comparisons very messy with Westmere. On the desktop we had Clarkdale (dual-core plus IGP) and Gulftown (hex-core and no IGP). On laptops we had Arrandale (basically just mobile Clarkdale). There were no mainstream quad-core Westmere parts, so you had mainstream dual-core or high-end hex-core and never the twain shall meet.
Anyway, don't feel too superior for catching the error -- try writing about technology and code names for a few years and I can pretty much guarantee you'll make some mistakes. Heck, just read the tech junky posts in hardware forums and even the best people make mistakes. Reply
JarredWalton - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkAnd yes, I know that Clarkdale's IGP was actually 45nm on package. Reply
web2dot0 - Friday, April 27, 2012 - linkIsn't there something fundamentally wrong with people using 1200W of power to play computer games? Considering that there is a power shortage all over California, it's pretty abusive to hoar all that juice when there are better ways to spent it.
Not trying to be judgemental or anything, but there should be regulation on energy consumption for computers that are not work-related. No different than emission standards for cars and such. Reply
UltimateKitchenUtensil - Saturday, April 28, 2012 - link1200 W is just the power supply's capacity. If the components draw less than that (in this case, much less than that), the supply will only give them what they need. And it will do it very efficiently, since the AX-1200 is 80+ Gold.
In this case, even though the power supply is rated 1200 W, the system, under load, only consumes 471 W of power. Some of it is wasted, but over 80% is used by the system. Reply
web2dot0 - Saturday, April 28, 2012 - linkI'm sure having a 80+ Gold PSU is great, but you are still using alot of power. I'm guessing if you plan to have a SLI config, you are going to OC the CPU, and everything else.
A regular PC consumes < 150W, this PC is using 471W.
I'm also guessing that people who buys these bad boys aren't exactly casual gamers, so these PCs will be under load way more often than an average PC.
Just saying .... Reply
buzznut - Saturday, April 28, 2012 - linkIts funny, AMD comes out with a product that equals its previous efforts and its a major fail. Why do we find it so easy to forgive Intel?
"I feel like a lot of us were hoping for either a bigger performance improvement or better overclocking headroom due to the new process, but what we have instead is a chip that, when pushed to its conventional limits, is essentially still only the equal of its predecessor in terms of performance."
And doesn't overclock as well. Aren't you glad you ran out and bought that Z77 board?
Obviously it has a little to do with power and efficiency. At least BD is much more capable with respect to overclocking. I am very underwhelmed.
Which is what confuses me. Ivy Bridge has been overhyped as much as bulldozer was. People really should be asking, "what happened?" Reply
Dustin Sklavos - Saturday, April 28, 2012 - linkIvy Bridge is still directly superior to Sandy Bridge in almost every way BUT overclocking headroom. I'm underwhelmed by Ivy Bridge, but it's much more efficient in terms of power consumption than Sandy Bridge. Before overclocking, you get slightly better performance for much less power.
Bulldozer was in many ways a step BACK from Deneb and Thuban. The FX-8150 should always have at least equalled the Phenom II X6 1100T, but in certain cases it was actually slower.
That, and everyone wanted and needed Bulldozer to do well for AMD's sake, the sake of the market, the sake of the community. Nobody was really looking at Sandy Bridge and going "boy, if Intel could make this thing faster we'd all be better off." Reply
hjalti8 - Sunday, April 29, 2012 - linkAccording to these pics :
it seems that the graphics processor on the ivy bridge takes up alot more die(%), so the difference, when you only consider the cores, should be even greater.
Because the surface area of the cores is so tiny the heat dissipation decreases resulting in worse temperatures. Reply
762m964 - Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - linkExpansion Slots 2 x PCIe 3.0/2.0 x16 (x16 or dual x8) *2
1 x PCIe 2.0 x16 (x4 mode, black) *3
3 x PCIe 2.0 x1
Sli @ 8 x 8 , imagine another motherboard with sli @ 16 x 16 !!! Reply
kyleb2112 - Saturday, May 05, 2012 - linkQuestion marks on the price? Seriously? Not much point in coming to this site if you start leaving out the most important data points. Reply
Drittz121 - Friday, February 28, 2014 - linkJust do yourself a favor. STAY AWAY from this company. Yes they look good. But when it breaks and it WILL. All they do is give you the run around. They have had my system for over 2 months trying to fix the garbage they sell. Worse company out there for support. DONT BUY Reply


text:
The Guardian, one of Great Britain's best known dailies, carried a report in its 19 September, 2008, issue describing how because Richard Dawkins' web site had carried illegal, defamatory material, access to it from Turkey had been banned. The report once again also drew readers' attention to Adnan Oktar"s Atlas of Creation:
"Oktar, a household name in Turkey, has used hundreds of books, pamphlets and DVDs to contest Darwin"s theory of evolution. In 2006 his publishers sent out ... copies of the Atlas of Creation, a lavish book rejecting evolution on every one of its 800 pages."

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Micron P320h PCIe SSD (700GB) Reviewby Anand Lal Shimpi on 10/15/2012 3:00 AM EST
57 Comments
Back to Article
itanic - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkIsn't this essentially just what FusionIO has been doing all along, except without all the drivers/software surrounding it? Reply
FunBunny2 - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkThat's my understanding. As to who IDT is? Reply
webdev511 - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkIDT (Integrated Device Technology) has been doing IC controllers for a Loooooong time. Reply
iamkyle - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - linkHow can you not remember the IDT WinChip!? Reply
ericgl21 - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkI wish they could have made a bootable SSD card, so the UEFI BIOS can see it as any other storage component. After all, it would be nice to have an OS installed directly on it. Reply
extide - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkFor home /power users, yeah you'd want that, but for this thing's target market booting from it is not an issue. Reply
blackmagnum - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkWant SSD storage at the sweetspot of 1 dollar/ 1 gigabyte. Reply
Zak - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkThere are plenty of SSDs, although SATA not PCIe, for less than $1 per gigabyte. Reply
colonelpepper - Monday, October 15, 2012 - link$2,000+ USD for a 2TB drive???
...in other news, I'd like to buy a 32 inch LCD screen at the sweetspot price of $16,000. Reply
melgross - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkThere's a sweet spot for RAM, in varying sizes, HDD's and SSD's. they're all different. Reply
speculatrix - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkflash memory comes in different forms and longevities.
the best SLC flash will outperform and outlast the cheapest TLC flash by considerable margins, but at a cost.
car analogy: do you want a performance car which is extremely well built and designed to survive in harsh environments, or a cheap family car which can only survive a Californian "winter"? Reply
milkod2001 - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkThey have to make this thing bootable and sell 120GB version for 300 bucks max, until then this is just like reading about NASA's new spaceship(interesting but no use for 99% of users) Reply
kevith - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkSpot on! Reply
A5 - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkIf you only care about consumer-ready cheap stuff, there are plenty of really boring tech sites out there for you to read. Reply
ender8282 - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkI was just talking with a co-worker a little while ago about how a device like this would give us more head room. It is extremely relevant to our workload, and I'm glad to see this article. Just because it isn't for home use you shouldn't ignore it. If this technology works (and works well) in the enterprise market, it will likely eventually trickle down to the consumer market. Would have liked to see prices, but if this is comparable to a high end raid controller, plus a bunch of fast SSDs it will likely be an option for lots of people. Reply
taltamir - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkThis is not for home users, its for enterprises with a lot of money and extreme speed needs. Reply
mattlach - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkIt's not intended for you, or me, or any other consumers.
This is a enterprise server part, and for that market its probably priced about right.
I would LOVE to see a bootable native PCIe consumer drive with MLC NAND priced more reasonably for the consumer market, and we likely will in the not TOO distant future, but they aren't here yet. Reply
zlyles - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkWhat you fail to realize is these SSD's (Micron P320h, Intel 910 and OCZ Z-Drive) are targeted at enterprise markets. The majority of these enterprise customers would purchase these drives as high IOPS storage or for running virtual servers/desktops from. Most of these companies are likely using a virtualized solution(VMware ESXi) in which case the hypervisor is loaded into ram at boot anyway, not much point in booting the OS from SSD.
If you are looking for a solution for 99% of users, I'm not really sure why you are even looking at PCI-e SSD's, there is a VERY small market for PCI-e SSD's(bootable or not) on the consumer side. Reply
JellyRoll - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkMan! For the tens of thousands of dollars that customers would spend on one of these SSDs there is no way in the world that anyone would ever run one under 128QD, ever.
These are designed to be run 100% full bore, not at QD 1. These benchmarks are totally irrelevant, and have no real meaning. This is like testing an Nascar vehicle in a small parking lot. Reply
Sivar - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkYou're right, who in their right mind would run all these irrelevant real-world database tests to see actual performance in the target market?
I'm sure you're speaking from a lot of industry experience. I'm also sure you've ever seen a sustained queue depth of 128 on any real-world system. Reply
JellyRoll - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkOf course you have absolutely no experience with Virtualization, which would mean that for your archaic workloads you wouldn't need something of this nature.
users that purchase this will not be running one database at such low queue depths, that would be an insane waste of money.
This is designed for high load OLTP and virtualized environments, not to run the database of one website.
you may be in IT at some small company, but you havent seen anything on datacenter scale apparently. Reply
DataC - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkJellyRoll is correct. I work for Micron, and we developed the P320h's controller and firmware through collaboration with enterprise OEMs—which is why we optimized for higher queue depths. When the P320h is run in these environments (which are common in datacenters), you'll see significantly higher performance than what's shown in the charts above. Reply
jospoortvliet - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkYup. And it should be tested on a proper enterprise platform - this test is like running a Nascar vehicle with the handbrakes on.
Time for an upgrade to a real OS, Anand. Reply
Denithor - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkWould have liked to see the fastest consumer-grade drive thrown in just to see exactly how much faster enterprise drives go. Also would like to see how this drive would perform in the standard Light and Heavy Bench tests. Reply
FunBunny2 - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkActually, against a Fusion-io part, the closest example. Reply
jwilliams4200 - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkRight, enterprise drives should get all the standard consumer SSD tests run on them in addition to the enterprise tests. Reply
mckirkus - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - linkAnd I'd argue a RAMDisk should be included just to get a sense of relative performance. Reply
Kevin G - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkI'm kinda surprised that there wasn't as much discussion about the effects of the native PCI-e controller. Lower latency results do crop up in various benchmarks here. I wonder if the impact is merely 'benchmark only' and not anything that'd be noticeable in more real world tests.
By going with 34 nm SLC, they have limited capacity but his article seems to indicate that the controller is capable of support MLC in the 20 to 30 nm range. That would allow it to hit the 4 TB maximum capacity of the controller. I'm also curious on how such a change would perform. The current P320h does need a PCI-e 2.0 8x connection as some of the benchmarks are (barely) exceeding what a PCI-e 2.0 4x link can provide. With faster NAND, a move to PCI-e 3.0 8x or PCI-e 2.0 16x may be warranted.
I'm also curious if multiple P320h's can be used in a system behind a RAID. Overkill the overkill?
Now for a few general comments about NVMe. I'd love to see NAND chips on DIMMs at the enterprise level. If the controller detects NAND failure or chips reaching their maximum endurance, they could potentially be swapped out. This is akin to current ECC DIMMs. Along those same lines it would be nice to see a SAS or SATA port on the board so that it could fail over to a hard drive in the event of multiple impending NAND failures. The main reasoning I can see to avoid DIMMs would simply be physical space.
This is also a good preview of what to expect with SATA-Express drives next year. They won't reach such bandwidth figures as they'll be limited to two PCI-e lanes but the latency improvements should carry over with a good controller. Reply
PCTC2 - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkYou could probably just do an OS-level software stripe (like in Linux). I think that would be more beneficial just in terms of usable capacity rather than the increase in performance. However, the increase in performance could be tangible, depending on your workload.
As for the link, I think we're more constrained by the controller to the performance than the NAND. I don't think we need the PCIe 3.0 or PCIe 2.0 x16 links for this iteration of the controller. I don't think it would saturate the link. As you said, some of the tests don't even saturate a PCIe x4 link, if you don't include overhead (there is overhead).
Also, Anand did point out a 25nm eMLC version is coming out in the future.
As for putting chips on DIMMs, for a HH/HL PCIe card, that is a waste of space, as you said yourself. Between the controller, DRAM, and then the NAND, the sockets would just take up space. The daughterboard direction allows a much more compact, proprietary size depending on the board itself. If you wanted a FH/HL card, I'm sure DIMMs would be more possible. Reply
FunBunny2 - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkCheck out the Sun/Oracle flash appliance. Other niche Enterprise flash storage also exist. Reply
PCTC2 - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkI think some of you guys are missing the point. This is an enterprise drive. You are not going to be booting off of it. You are not going to find it cheap or in smaller sizes. This drive, if it was a car, would be the unholy child of a European supercar and a Marauder. I could put one of these in a compute cluster and slam it 24/7 and it would be happy. And I would be happy because it means that I don't have to worry about hitting NAND endurance limits and I have a low-latency, highly parallelized storage device.
So no. I (and probably anyone else who deals with enterprise hardware) don't care that it isn't bootable. I don't want it bootable. I don't care that it probably costs $5000+ for 700GB. It's cheaper in the long run. If it was to be anywhere close $300, you would have probably have 128GB of raw eMLC NAND, before over provisioning/RAIN/etc. Who in the industry would want such a small PCIe SSD when its strength is the large number of channels and large capacity.
But would I give my right testicle to be able to eval one of these units, possibly buying enough for all of the servers? Yes. I probably would. Reply
DukeN - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkSo you'd buy this for all your servers without figuring out how to add disk redundancy for these things?
Or if you could RAID them, how that would affect the lifetime and TRIM-related performance. Reply
DataC - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkDear PCTC2, I'm with Micron and our engineering team loves your Marauder/Supercar analogy. If you're serious about that eval unit, we should chat. You can reach me at firstname.lastname@example.com.
And I promise our eval terms don't require quite as much commitment as you've suggested.... Reply
DukeN - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkSorry, but no enterprise is putting their Oracle or MSSQL clusters on a platform based just on individual disk benchmarks.
Numbers compared to disk arrays, SAN devices, etc would be welcome. Also, no enterprise will run something like this without redundancy which brings up another slew of questions - TRIM, wear-levelling, etc.
Thanks Reply
SQLServerIO - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkThere are only two cards that I'm aware of that are similar. Fusion-io with their line of cards and Texas Memory Systems which was acquired by IBM recently.
The big difference between this card and the Fusion-io card is where it stores its LBA's and block mappings. The TMS drive and this drive both store that on the drive either in DRAM or flash on PCB. The fusion-io cards use your system memory.
On the latency side, fusion-io has very solid latency numbers even on their MLC products. This card between the native PCI-e interface and using SLC make it very competitive.
I am worried about the driver issues, this is a HUGE problem for those of us running on windows. TMS and fusion-io both have had driver problems but with products that have been on the market for several years now have ironed them out. Micron being very late to the game can't afford to have these issues at launch even though they are disclosing them it will cut them off from a lot of the smaller shops that would buy from them.
I would like to know how many channels are active out of the 32 available at a time. If they come back and say all 32 that is also concerning pointing to bottlenecks in their custom ASIC with this much SLC flash on board.
Just my thoughts.
Wes - www.sqlserverio.com Reply
FunBunny2 - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkAnd no encryption? In an Enterprise drive? Also, the R/W performance difference is puzzling. Reply
jospoortvliet - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkYou should run a load which requires hardware like this on an enterprise OS, not a playtoy as Windows... I think the comment about 32 vs 512 QD made that clear already. MS is nice for SMB with unskilled workers due to familiarity. But prise-performance it's crappy (requires lots of maintenance) and
Your choices would be:
That's what you use at, for example, at the London Stock Exchange. Just google "london stock exchange linux dotnet" and see how MS failed at a real demanding workload and the Stock Exchange lost billions on a bad bet.
But I guess you'll have to ignore all that as you're not trained for anything else :D Reply
jospoortvliet - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link(missing part would of course be "... and it fails completely at more demanding workloads") Reply
DataC - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkI'd like to respond to the drivers concern. I work for Micron in our SSD organization and can certify that we have fully tested our drive in two server-class Windows-based operating systems (in addition to Linux). These are Windows Server 2008 and 2012. This is an Enterprise-class drive and as such we currently do not support desktop operating systems such as Windows 7. Some of the chipset compatibility issues like the H67 fall also into the category of desktop systems and as such we do not explicitly support them. Understandably, while this makes reviewing the card somewhat difficult (most reviewers don't want to spend $10K+ on a server) we need to be clear that this is not a driver maturity issue but a conscious decision we made to support datacenter, server-grade hardware and OSs. Reply
boogerlad - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkAh, just the review I was waiting for. This drive isn't usable as an os boot drive? How unfortunate... Reply
zlyles - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - linkBecause it wasn't meant to be... it makes me laugh to see how many people think Micron, Intel, and OCZ are developing these PCI-e SSD's for the consumer market. This is an enterprise class drive, and as such is not meant to be a bootable drive unless you are booting VM's on a hypervisor. Reply
Cloakstar - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkI get the impression these tests did not stress this drive.
Compare the relationship between disk busy time and average QD for the test tp the other drives. The higher the QD, the lower the relative disk busy time compared to the competition.
-In IOMeter tests with QD32, no disk busy time is recorded, but the drive is in a solid lead for random noncompressible data throughtput.
-The poorest numbers for this drive happen at lowest QD.
-The highest listed QD for any test, here is 32.
-"Micron claims much higher sequential read/write numbers under Linux at 256 concurrent IOs." Reply
apmon2 - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link"I get the impression these tests did not stress this drive."
Yes, that seems to be the case. thessdreview.com have what looks like a really nice review [1] including tests of a QD up to 512. There one can see that it achieves only about a 1/3 of its peak performance with a QD of 32. Not till a QD of 128 or even 256 does it achieve its full potential. Then however it seems to perform truly amazing, and is able to completely saturate the 8x PCIe 2.1 bus with 4k random reads! It supposedly can sustain 3.3GB/s of 4kb random reads.
Even at small 512B read requests it can, according to them, still achieve on the order of 600Mb/s, achieving well in access of 1.5 million IOps. Even then the limiting factor was the CPU, not the device, despite using a core i7 that was overclocked to 4.9 GHz.
So if those numbers are true, Anand didn't even come close to stressing this SSD to its limit (or intended purpose).
[1] http://thessdreview.com/our-reviews/micron-p320h-h... Reply
bthanos - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkHi Anand,
Nice Article, however the Micron p320h is not a NVME interface drive. Its PCIe Gen 2 , AHCI. Reply
Jaybus - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkAs stated in the article, the drive is using IDT's 32-channel PCIe gen 3 x8 controller, but operating it in gen 2 mode. Since x8 gen 2 is sufficiently faster than the drive is capable of, it is a good choice, as it allows compatibility for use in systems without gen 3 slots. IDT claims full compliance with the NVM Express standard. See http://www.idt.com/products/interface-connectivity... for controller specs.
Looks like a NVM Express drive to me. Why would you say it is not? Reply
bthanos - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkBecause the IDT controllers released at Flash Memory Summit are new SOCs, the Micron p320h drive is using a previous jointly developed SOC which is not NVME. See comment from Anand.. Reply
colonelpepper - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkOn the issue of durability or whatever you want to call it...
"50 petabytes of writes" is totally meaningless marketing intellect abuse.
It only takes on a meaning if you were to fill up the entire drive at once and then erase it and then write to the entire volume again etc until you reached 50 petabytes of writes.
Show me a hard drive that is ever used like that and I'll donate the pot of gold I've got stashed out back to your favorite charity. Reply
DataC - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkColonel Pepper, at Micron we spec TBW or total bytes written, but it's closely related to another standard you'll see in the enterprise industry, "X drive fills per day for 5 years." The two specs are simply different ways to express the same number. The spec tracks the amount of bytes you can write to the SSD before the NAND exceeds its wear life and reverts to a write-protect (read only) mode. It includes any and every write ever made to the drive, not just the full drive fills and erases you've described. Reply
rrohbeck - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkWhat I don't understand though is why SSD controllers don't have PHYs that can talk PCIe as well as SATA/SAS. Then manufacturers could leverage the high volume/high performance SATA/SAS designs for PCIe too. The firmware would probably be even simpler. Reply
DanNeely - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkBecause it would be adding additional complexity, die size, and cost, to mass produced consumer parts with very thin margins. All of which are good ways to go out of business. Reply
Jaybus - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkAny particular drive is going to be one or the other. Why make a single complex cotroller when you can make two targeted controllers? Reply
crackedwiseman - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkAny chance we could see some power consumption numbers on the various PCI-E SSDs? It would be interesting to see if the higher levels of integration in the NVMe controller solution are reflected by power savings. Also, its a shame it's not PCI-E 3.0 certified (although I'm sure it will be, given time) - it's not that the extra bandwidth is necessary, but you could achieve the same bandwidth with fewer lanes. Reply
cosmotic - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - linkWhere's the test results from something like an Areca 1882 filled with high-performance SSDs? Reply
N00dles71 - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - linkIts funny to see all the dreamers here wishing it booted so when they won the lotto they could have one to go with their quad chip triple SLI dream machine.
Seriously though, the SLC makes it a good sell to the boss who is worried about it dying before its time. Versus SAS hard drives/SSDs you just pull the dead one out and swap in a new one. Not so easy with these cards if you don't have them mirrored. Add the current market cost of a 2nd one to the mirror it does make it a hard sell. You could rely on these running a bit too well so that failure becomes a massive concern. So far we only trust the HP ones to store data that can easily be restored or is our prime business of massive scale market data capture and therefore mostly useless after 30 minutes.
We have just started using the HP badged (Fusion) IO Accelerator and are well impressed with its performance. We would love to start using it in more servers but even with preferential HP pricing these are not cheap. If this thing was certified to run in Proliant DL 38x & 58x servers at $3000 I think the market just got tipped on its head. I can't see the competition getting much cheaper than around $8000 on the HP cards so Micron are either going to go in hard and disruptive or they might settle for a "cheaper" price closer to the competition to keep margins high. It would be a shame if they did, these devices are just about ready for a big push into the enterprise market that it is ripe for someone to come in and sweep it all up. We would have brought 4 times the number of cards versus the HP ones. Reply
klmccaughey - Friday, November 02, 2012 - linkThis is the second Micron review you have done that there is no available product for. The last one was their new SSD drive which still hasn't appeared. I am in the UK. I wrote to them about the last review you did and they said that although Micron was their parent company, they has no information on when a product would or would not be available.
I don't understand why they send you products for review, yet even months (nearly a year for the first one?) they aren't shipping the product.
I can understand proof of concept and all that, and I love this PCIE card, but it's all fantasy IT until we can actually get our hands on it :) Reply
klmccaughey - Friday, November 02, 2012 - linkI meant Crucial by the way - Crucial are still only on the M4 and no sign of any of the stuff they send you ending up on the shelf ;) Reply
snozzy - Tuesday, November 06, 2012 - linkGo to cdw.com and search for "micron p320". You can purchase the exact same card used in this review.
You can also buy these parts though Dell in a 2.5" form factor along with a server. Go configure a R620/R720/R820 with the PCIe SSD option. Reply


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Gala Marks Foundation's 40 Years of Leadership in New York and the Nation
More than 600 celebrated this milestone year with us at Lincoln Center's Avery Fisher Hall—and together raised $2 million for lupus research and awareness! A moving and elegant event. See photos
Gala honorees Susan and Morrie Golick began the S.L.E. Lupus Foundation in Susan's living room 40 years ago. Watch the video everyone at the Gala saw—on how the fight against lupus began there, in New York City, and spread across the nation, and what our 40 years of leadership has meant to the lupus community:
"There's nothing like a father's love for his daughter," agreed Gala co-hosts MSNBC Morning Joe's Mika Brzezinski and Joe Scarborough (below, left).
And Avery Fisher Hall's theater hummed with entertainment!
Opera star Jessye Norman (above, right) opened the evening with Rodgers and Hammerstein's "Climb Every Mountain."
Tony Award winner (Nine) and two-time Emmy nominee ("30 Rock") Jane Krakowski kept the crowd enthralled along with 30 Rock co-star Cheyenne Jackson as they closed the program with a festive performance of Broadway show tunes and pop hits.
"I am honored to be a part of such a fabulous night and for such a great cause. Lupus affects so many people, mostly young women in the prime of their lives," Krakowski said.
Foundation Board of Directors President Richard K. Descherer introduced remarks communicated by New York's Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who "spoke" via video to the crowd of 40 years of leadership in New York.
Corporate honorees Human Genome Sciences and GlaxoSmithKline graciously accepted their awards for developing the first potential new lupus treatment to be approved in over 50 years.
Dinner followed the evening's entertainment.
All proceeds from the Life Without Lupus® gala support the foundation in its commitment to lupus research and the ongoing care New Yorkers suffering from the life-threatening autoimmune disease.


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Linton elated with start [7:26 AM]
D and C reports: '"I'm excited about this opportunity," Linton said. "Anytime you get extended minutes in a ball game, you have to make the most of it. I'm looking foward to showing the coaches I can make a big contribution to this team." Depending on the ability of Smith to shake his injury bug, Linton's contribution could be as big as last season or more.'
Competition at safety heats up [7:24 AM]
D and C reports: The competition for the Bills' vacant free safety job kicks into second gear tonight when the team meets Detroit. On the other side of the field, ironically, will be the reason Buffalo is looking for a new free safety. Kurt Schulz, who started six seasons for the Bills, signed with the Lions as a free agent. Keion Carpenter is expected to get the starting nod tonight for Buffalo, followed by Daryl Porter and rookie Travares Tillman. Carpenter also spent time at corner and strong safety this week in practice, and Porter also can play cornerback. Coach Wade Phillips has made it clear he wants to keep the best defensive backs overall, regardless of position. "That's the way coach Phillips handles things," Porter said. "If you're playing well and doing your job, he's going to play the best players. He's always saying, `I brought you guys here, I want to see you guys perform on Sunday.' That's nice to hear."'
Second preseason game important to Case, Johnson [9:00 PM]
AP reports: '"We didn't know how much we were playing against the Bengals," Johnson said. "We thought we could be out after the first drive. I think we eased up a little bit, which is not a good thing. "Hopefully, we can put some more drives together." Bills coach Wade Phillips plans to give Johnson and all the rest of his regulars a little more playing time this week. "I think we need some more work," Phillips said. "I think this game is where we're pointing to do that."'
Smith to sit out Bills preseason game against Lions [8:57 PM]
AP reports: 'Bills running back Antowain Smith, nursing a swollen right knee, will miss Saturday's preseason game against the Detroit Lions. Smith, Buffalo's No. 1 rusher, did not participate in any contract drills at training camp this past week in Rochester. He was hurt in last week's preseason-opening victory against Cincinnati when he was struck by a helmet. Coach Wade Phillips, who insists the injury is to Smith's thigh, said the running back will continue to have fluid drained from his leg and should be ready to return next week.'
Hill climbs depth chart as he excels in camp [9:14 AM]
Buffalo News reports: 'Raion Hill wasn't a high draft pick. In fact, he wasn't drafted at all. He's not a household name like some of the other young players being showcased at the Buffalo Bills' training camp this summer. But when it comes to making an impression on teammates and coaches, few have done it with as much regularity as Hill. Hill is making a strong bid to secure a spot on the Bills' regular-season roster as the primary backup to strong safety Henry Jones. "Raion is having a terrific camp," defensive backs coach Bill Bradley said after practice Thursday at St. John Fisher College. "He's doing so well it's hard not to notice him."'
Camp attendance hits six figures [8:55 AM]
Buffalo News reports: 'The Buffalo Bills eclipsed the 100,000 mark in fan attendance in their inaugural training camp at St. John Fisher College. According to team officials, 8,400 attended the two sessions on Thursday, the highest single-day total thus far. Owner Ralph Wilson praised the fans in Rochester and the surrounding area who attended the practices, adding that attendance was "far beyond our expectations." "Maybe it's the highest turnout of any training camp in the country," Wilson said Thursday. "That I don't know, but it's really up there, first or second. It's been a great experience here."'
Johnson ready to break out for Bills [8:01 AM]
CBS Sportsline reports: 'Said current Cleveland Browns coach Chris Palmer, the former quarterbacks tutor in Jacksonville, who got to work one year with Johnson: "It's all there. He can throw every pass. And he's a lot more mobile than people think, too." Indeed, he flashed his surprising ability to buy time in the pocket while leading the Bills to what should have been a game-winning field goal in last year's playoff loss at Adelphia Coliseum. But the reason the Bills shipped first- and fourth-round choices in the 1998 draft to Jacksonville to get Johnson, then rewarded him with a five-year, $25 million contract had little to do with his feet. At 6-feet-4 and 212 pounds, Johnson is a prototype pocket passer, a player who can stretch the field vertically and one who should benefit from a solid supporting cast.'
Tillman gets better with time [6:14 AM]
D and C reports: 'Defensive end Erik Flowers had a sack, forced fumble and a tipped pass. Linebacker Corey Moore had a sack and a game-clinching blocked field goal. Wide receiver Avion Black scored on a dazzling 34-yard pass play. And free safety Travares Tillman? Well, the Buffalo Bills second-round draft pick didn't quite have the kind of splashy professional debut that the team's other top rookies did last Friday against the Cincinnati Bengals. Then again, the others aren't playing a position where the game is played more above the shoulders than below it.'
Hicks provides plenty of protection [6:13 AM]
D and C reports: 'If a man is big enough to blot out the sun, that's the kind of man you want serving as one of your bodyguards. All Rob Johnson wants is someone big enough to prevent opposing defensive ends and linebackers from breaking him in two on Sunday afternoons, and in mountainous Robert Hicks, Johnson has found his man. "The only problem with having someone so big over there, sometimes you can't see too well (downfield), but I'll take that any day," Johnson said with a smile. "He can be a dominant player because he's big, he's athletic, he's in shape. If he stays healthy, he can have a huge year." That's what the Bills are expecting from the 6-foot-7, 330-pound Goliath who is beginning his second year as the team's starting right tackle.'
Jones filling 'special' shoes well [6:11 AM]
D and C reports: 'The day he was hired as the Buffalo Bills new special-teams coach, Ronnie Jones made it a point to say he had nothing to do with "Home Run Throwback." He also acknowledged, quite astutely, that he will have to live with the ghost of the greatest special-teams blunder in team history until he can write more happy chapters. Yes, Bruce DeHaven may have been fired by coach Wade Phillips after the Tennessee Titans beat the Bills 22-16 on that disputed 75-yard trick kickoff return in last January's wild-card playoff game. Yes, Phillips may want us to believe he has rectified a growing team weakness by replacing a proven assistant, who may have grown stale after 13 seasons with the same team, with an energetic newcomer whom he will keep on a tight leash. The reality is that DeHaven is one of the very best special-teams coaches in NFL history while Jones has never coached special teams in the league on a full-time basis.'
Corle sits, watches and wonders [6:10 AM]
D and C reports: 'As each day passes in camp, rookie running back Jason Corle watches as the men he is competing with for a roster spot -- Lennox Gordon, Sammy Morris, Josh Roth and Phillip Crosby -- go through drills, run plays live, and make impressions on the coaching staff. And all he can do is watch. Corle has been sidelined since the first week with a pulled left hamstring, and the inactivity is driving him nuts. "This has been terrible," said the free-agent signee from Towson. "I'm out here learning the offense and I'm learning what the game is about at this level, but it's frustrating not being able to go out and do what you have to do to make the team. "When you're a free agent, this is the worst-case scenario for me."'
Basking in the glory of Bills training camp [6:08 AM]
D and C reports: 'Tens of thousands of people have traveled to the St. John Fisher College campus to take in a day of training camp. Some had basic, transparent reasons. They support the Bills. They're fascinated by quarterback Doug Flutie. They want potentially valuable autographs. It's an enjoyable summer escape for children. But a football training camp, sociologists and sports experts suggest, draws on potent aspects of American culture and personal psychology -- the worship of athletes, an attraction to the grotesque, gambling and something called "BIRGing." "BIRG" is an acronym created by social psychologists to describe an ego-supporting act -- "basking in reflective glory." "BIRGing is a very natural phenomenon," said Merrill Melnick, professor of physical education and sport at the State University College at Brockport. "We all want to identify with greatness, but we can't all be great. The next best game in town is to stand in the shadow of the great."'
Bills Offensive Line Preview [8:13 PM]
AP reports: 'While much has been made of the cuts and defections the Bills suffered this off-season, those concerns do not apply to the offensive line, intact except for the loss of free agent Dusty Zeigler. "They look like a pretty strong group, especially together," said coach Wade Phillips. "It takes togetherness to be a good offensive line, not just great individuals, but playing together. I think we're a lot further along than we were last year at this time."'
Smith, Brown questionable for Saturday's game [8:10 PM]
AP reports: 'Smith continues to have swelling in his right knee after being hit with a helmet in Buffalo's win over Cincinnati last week. Brown has been nagged by a sore right ankle. Neither starters took part in any contact drills at training camp this week. Thursday, coach Wade Phillips said he'll wait until game-time to determine their status, adding both would play if this had been the regular season.'
Kelly makes a return visit to Bills camp [3:45 PM]
Olean Times Herald reports: 'But this, Kelly will be less involved with football than the days he was too young for Pop Warner. Rather than the rigorous schedule he worked for ESPN the last three years, Kelly will now only do NFL features for the all-sports network. "My priorities have changed...I look at it from a different perspective," said Kelly, who has three children including 3 1/2-year old Hunter who has Krabbe's disease and has already outlived his life expectancy. "He's not going to get any better but as long as he stays where it is ... that's a blessing." And that's why his new job appeals. "I'm really cutting back on what I did last year, I'm not going to be gone nearly as much as I was," he said. "With the features I'll be away one day, unlike last year when from Wednesday through Friday I was calling players and gone Saturday and Sunday. This gives me more time with my family, which is what I want." He's even postponed a planned move to Richmond for a couple of years and is currently looking to buy land for a hunting camp. "That should make everybody happy," he said with a laugh. But Kelly quickly pointed out his wife's family, his brothers and friends still live here. "I'd like to build a nice log cabin to come to a couple of weeks in the summer," Kelly explained, "and be able to come back for snowmobiling and the things I like to do in Western New York."'
Jackson won't shrink from duties with Bills [8:57 AM]
Buffalo News reports: 'Jackson, who received his psychology degree from Nebraska, has been the target of more than one raised eyebrow since he joined the Bills last year as a seventh-round draft pick. "My high school teammates used to say, "Sheldon was one of those branches that fell off the tree a long time ago. He's just doing something his own way,' " Jackson said. "I'm a team player, but when the pads come off I enjoy my own little world. It's definitely different. To me, I'm OK. Everybody else is insane. Everybody else is a little weird. I love the way I see things through my eyes." The 6-foot-3, 237-pounder has a few idiosyncrasies, especially for a professional football player. He claims he doesn't know how to draw, but wants to be a tattoo artist. He has five tattoos himself, including depictions on his back of his mother, brother and sister. While some Bills drive new Hummers, BMWs, Jaguars and other prestigious cars, Jackson's fleet consists of an 1982 Chevy Monte Carlo, a '95 Chevy Z-71 pickup truck and a '77 Harley-Davidson Shovelhead. But one eccentricity stands out more than the others. In fact, 20 things stand out. Jackson polishes his finger and toe nails.'
Flutie says Week Five his likely return date from groin injury [8:55 AM]
Buffalo News reports: '"I'm nowhere near ready, but I'm getting more comfortable. Right now all I can do is ride the bike and use the Stairmaster. Flutie was supposed to have a second MRI on the groin this week, but it got moved to Monday. "I wanted to have the MRI this week but it just doesn't make a difference," he said. "There's no need to rush it. (The MRI) should just update the healing." The timetable for Flutie remains about the same, with his return likely to be for either the third or fourth regular-season game. The Bills have a bye in Week Four so they may give him that extra week to recuperate, but Flutie said he sees Week Five as his latest possible return date.'
Once-hated Thomas makes home debut tonight [7:43 AM]
Palm Beach Post reports: 'He has grown up through the years. He has mellowed. He no longer watches the tape of his draft-day plummet for inspiration. But he does have a little chip on his shoulder. He wants to beat the Bills. He wants to make them pay not just for letting him go after 12 years, but for how they did it. "To not make a phone call to me or to tell me before the season ended, that hurt," he said. "That's a motivational tool. I wouldn't say that's my whole deal that I'm using to continue to play, but it's a little part of it. I'm a little ticked off. But what really motivates me, what makes me feel good, is that the Dolphins were the first ones to call. I want to go out and make plays for this football team."'
Flutie confident of early return from injury [7:39 AM]
AP reports: 'It'll be two weeks today since the Bills veteran backup slipped on the St. John Fisher College natural grass and suffered the injury. He was initially expected to be out until at least the middle of next month. There's still no clear indication when he will be back. Flutie said there's an outside shot of him being ready for the Bills regular-season opener on Sept. 3. "I still got three weeks. That's still a possibility," he said. At the latest, Flutie said he'll be back by Oct. 1, the Bills' fourth game of the season, which follows their scheduled bye week. He said there's no point returning for Game 3 only to take an additional week off.'
Bills need big plays from Collins [6:05 AM]
D and C reports: 'There has been much excitement in this camp about the prospects of No. 1 tight end Jay Riemersma becoming a major cog in the Bills offense this season. And there has been much talk about the expanded role Sheldon Jackson -- like Collins a second-year tight end -- is receiving as he tries his hand at fullback and H-back. But no one seems to be paying much attention to Collins, who technically is No. 2 on the depth chart and figures to see ample playing time this season in two-tight end alignments. "I think people just want to wait to see," Collins said. What "people" are waiting to see is the 6-foot-4, 249-pounder display the explosiveness and big-play ability the Bills' deep thinkers think he possesses.'
Change is clear to Kelly [6:04 AM]
D and C reports: 'An upbeat Kelly paid a visit to camp yesterday, observing practice, chatting with players, and signing tons of autographs for a legion of appreciative fans. Last night, he escorted a group of fans to dinner with defensive stars Ted Washington and Phil Hansen, winners of a charity raffle for his Hunter's Hope Foundation. While attending practice, Kelly was struck by the passage of time. The release of Andre Reed, Thurman Thomas and Bruce Smith means there are no Bills left from their first Super Bowl team of 1990. "It's time to move on, pass the torch, for the Bills to start a new tradition," Kelly said. "It's time for them to get a new identity and you can see with all the new players what they're trying to accomplish."'
Tight end is red-zone threat [6:03 AM]
D and C reports: 'During red-zone work in practice, quarterback Rob Johnson continues to find tight end Jay Riemersma open for completions in the back of the end zone. It's always a mismatch, the 6-foot-5 Riemersma usually matched up against a shorter linebacker. On one particulary play, John Holecek was all over Riemersma, only to have the former Michigan all-state high school basketball player snatch the ball above his outstretched arms. "Jay's big in the red area because he's so tall," coach Wade Phillips said. "He can recognize the coverages, and he can anticipate and make plays. We're going to try to utilize him more. I think Rob feels good with Jay, I think it's a good combination. He looks for Jay in the middle of the field."'
Wease puts Bills at ease [6:02 AM]
D and C reports: 'To many Bills players, Brother Wease is a pop cult figure. To them, the Rochester radio icon with the raspy voice and more body ink than Rodman is a breath of fresh air, especially during these dog days of training camp when questions about cover-2 zones have become as stale as an open can of day-old pop. Sure, the location of WCMF's makeshift studio just across the walkway from the team's locker room at St. John Fisher College has something to do with their willingness to share air time with Wease. But it's more than location. If they didn't care for him, they'd be sure to avoid him like a training camp Turk. "He's a guy you can go on the air with and have a casual conversation about everything, not just football," says Bills guard Ruben Brown. "Sometimes, Wease will ask you outrageous stuff, but it's all in fun. He lets you be yourself, be a person. Through the years, he's developed a good reputation among the players. We are reluctant to trust people in the media because you get burned so often. He's someone you can trust."'
Color Sheldon Jackson different [8:45 PM]
AP reports: 'Jackson has gained attention at Bills training camp, and not simply because he's getting more responsibility in the offensive scheme, taking over for departed fullback Sam Gash. This summer, the second-year player has been featured in a sports drink commercial in which he's painting his fingernails just before game-time. Jackson has been conducting this ritual since his days at Nebraska, saying it's part of his expressive nature. The Bills' don't seem to mind.'
Moore impressing Bills with his nose for ball [9:30 AM]
Lynchburg News and Advance reports: '"The Buffalo Bills base their opinions on production. That was not a hard decision," Dwight Adams, the team's vice president of player personnel, said of selecting Moore with the 89th overall pick. "That was not one for debate. There's Corey Moore, there's a productive player in a major program, with consistent production." It might prove to be one of the wisest selections in this year's draft. With a middle-round pick, the Bills secured the services of the 1999 defensive player of the year in college football (17 sacks, 35 career). No matter that he's undersized for a linebacker (5-11, 230 pounds -- up from his college weight of 225), let alone a defensive end; Moore makes plays.'
One for the fans [9:05 AM]
Buffalo News reports: 'Starting with last Friday's preseason game against the Cincinnati Bengals, fans are now allowed to bring nonalcoholic beverages in containers up to one-quart size. With a couple of caveats, this was a worthwhile change that will allow the Bills organization to crack down on alcohol while removing the penalty it had called against the many fans who wanted nothing more than a warm drink on a chilly day. But those caveats are important. The Bills say they reserve the right to check containers for alcohol. That's good, but they have to follow through. Security personnel should be prepared to check as many containers as they can, or at least to spot-check them. Alcohol is the primary fuel of anti-social behavior in the stands, and the Bills need to do everything they can to control it.'
Will the Price be right? [8:59 AM]
Buffalo News reports: '"I'm going into this season with a little different set of circumstances," Price said Tuesday while walking off the Bills' training camp fields at St. John Fisher College. "I'm a starter and a lot more is expected of me, and I expect a lot more of myself."'
Porter is never out of position [8:58 AM]
Buffalo News reports: 'Daryl Porter might roll out of bed this morning and find himself playing catcher. The Buffalo Bills defensive back has been all over the field at the team's training camp at St. John Fisher College. On Tuesday he played free safety, strong safety, cornerback and was on every special teams unit. "It's a positive for me and makes me a valuable player on this team," Porter said. "It's just a matter of not making too many mental mistakes because at one position you use one technique and at another you use another technique. "You just gotta be on your toes."'
McDaniel back on the path to success [8:56 AM]
Buffalo News reports: 'After spending most of the '99 season on the practice squad, McDaniel has blossomed in this year's camp. He has caught everything thrown his way and made several dazzling catches for long gains. If he keeps it up, he will be a lock for a starting job as the third wideout in the Bills' three-receiver sets. He also should figure prominently on special teams as a coverage man. "Well, anything can happen," McDaniel said. "I don't think I'm a lock. We've got a lot of young guys who have to show their stuff. I'm just going to practice hard every day, eliminate my mistakes and hopefully have a good season. I always had a talent for catching the ball. The Lord blessed me and I thank him every day for that."'
Tackling is game-only activity [6:15 AM]
D and C reports: 'Fans heading out to St. John Fisher in hopes of seeing defensive end Phil Hansen blindside quarterback Rob Johnson, or linebackers John Holecek and Sam Cowart sandwich Antowain Smith before throwing him to the ground will be disappointed. While some teams, most notably the Dallas Cowboys and Miami Dolphins under Jimmy Johnson and Tom Coughlin's Jacksonville Jaguars, strap on full pads and have at it, the Bills don't conduct live scrimmages in camp. The reason? This is training camp, not boot camp.'
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Technical Information
Materials and Characteristics: Please see product description for the particular material of this product.
Brass: Brass (alloy 360) is easily machinable, readily soldered and brazed.
Stainless Steel: Stainless (alloy 303) is machinable and weldable.
Aluminum: Aluminum (alloy 6061) has good formability, high corrosion resistance, heat treatable.
Mild Steel: Steel (alloy 1018) is general purpose, easily welded, machinable, suitable for parts that require a soft core and high surface hardness (after suitable heat treating).
Tool Steel: Tool steel (alloy 0-1) is oil hardening, fine grain, non-shrinking, with excellent abrasion resistance and machinability characteristics.


text:
★ vᴀᴎᴣᴤᴤᴀ ★
O Samee Heree . Whatt youu doo todayy ??
& Hey .. Can youu see maa pikz when youu qoo on maa profilee ; Lykk tha ones tht aree qoinqq on tha slideeshow ?
Hahaa dayumm ;; ii havee no ideaa dudee ,, I kno iht was in a purplee bottle loll & we were drinkinqq ihtt straiqhtt outtaa thaa bottlee & thenn laChelle's mom calld & she was cominqq homee hahaa . & soo we pouredd ihtt in maa lemonadee loll (: LaChelle's crazyy ; Even thoo she qott cauqhtt drinkinqq she continues loll . . . .
O thtt''z cool ; Yuhh mustt havee cool parents loll
& maa mom wuldd be lykk chell''z .. lol pissd for a lil whilee then jokee bout ihtt . Hahaa [:
& Yeaa we shuddd .
- how aree youu & jakerzz?
Good , Good ii amm happy forr youu quys[:
Mee & hemm alwayhz tlkinqq abtt hem&youu ndd mee&chadd in 3rdd houurr loll , yeaah he really lovess youu❤
& ehh, Mee & Chadd ? Hm . Weree fiqhtinqq & ii knoo ihff thinqs qett badd enuff he's qonnaa endd ihtt & ii juss ii dunnoo ? Thinqs aree badd riqhtt noww .
Hm . Better ii quess yuhh culdd sayy ; ii Meaan - He's madd . iiDk whyy thoo , Imaa jus lehtt hem be :: Causee when ii lykk lehtt ihtt qoo - He usually tells mee[; loll & ii lovee thttt.
Yeaah ii thinkk soo too loll(:
- Every1 tells mee tht were perfect . I jus hopee we can see pastt all each others flaws . Ihf soo .. we really will be perfect loll(:
Well ii will see yaa tomorrow qurl k .. Niqhhtt *
Nothinqq ; Boredd, Tlkinqq taa chadd & Youuu?
- O & byy thaa way , thinqs aree qood between mee & chadd loll thnxxx 4 thaa adviceee[;
Hm . Maybee hem & his mom ; Youuh knoo how he qottaa writeee up todayy, He was all streessed aboutt ihtt in 7thh houur & he jus keppt tellinqq meeh, How madd his mom was qonnaa qett . So maybee tht''z ihtt ? Uqh ; ii Hope he's ok . ii Hate seeinqq hem lykkk thttt .
Hm . iiWould sayy betterr loll - Lyk he's quiett , Hahaa buhtt nott madd . iiDk thoo tht still kindaa trips mee outt ; Causee youuh knoo & iiThink every1 doess, Chad's nott thaa 'quiett' typeee. lolll Wbuu & Jakeee?
Niqhttt qurlieee .
Sweet Dreams , Sleep tiqhttt ; Dntt lehttt jakerzz biteee[; loll
Muchhoo Muchhoo ❤ xOxO - Destineee[:
not alot wow the last time we talked was the begging of 6th grade and the last time i saw you was the end of 5th grade you look so diffrent now


text:
Sometime before the football games are watched, and the turkey and stuffing and pies are consumed this Thanksgiving Day, take a few minutes to read this extraordinary speech, extraordinary for what it says about your Marines, your Armed Forces, and your Country, and even more extraordinary for what it does not say.
The speech talks about the patriotic youth who answer the call to serve their country. The general discusses in detail the deaths of two Marine heroes for whom he posthumously recommended the Navy Cross. As you read the speech, you will find that it does not mention anything about the death of 1stLt Robert Kelly, USMC, who lost his life in Afghanistan just four days earlier, on November 9, 2010. This speech was delivered on November 13, 2010, by LtGen Kelly, his father.
1stLt Kelly was laid to rest in Arlington National Cemetery on Monday, November 22, 2010.
[Read the rest of this article...]
This purportedly is a book report written by a school child (probably a boy). The source for this piece is unknown, but it has the ring of truth.
Today we are 232 years old. How long will it last?
They want to protect space from radioactive contamination...
Sgt. Friday used to say: "Just the facts, Ma'am, just the facts." And speaking of facts...
"What the hell was on 572's right wing?" The result of MacNamara's ordnance shortage in 'Nam... "We gave them everything we had... EVERYTHING!"
A true story from VA-25.
Recently, the spacecraft Cassini did a fly-by of Iapetus a few thousand kilometers from the surface. What it saw supplies tantalizing evidence that we might be the children of star children.
Last year, the government of Norway issued a clear threat to engage in an act of war against the United States. Nobody noticed.
From time to time in science and engineering somebody develops an idea that seems to have legs, but with time the legs go away, and all that remains is the interesting idea.
On August 2, 2007, Anatoly Sagalevitch planted the Russia Federation flag on the sea bottom 2.5 miles under the ice cap at the North Pole.
So why, exactly, is the U.S. standard railroad gauge 4 ft 8 ½ in – and what does this have to do with the space shuttle?
Medal of Honor recipient Adm. Eugene B. Fluckey passed away on June 28, 2007.
Some people dream – some people do...and some do both!


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SAN DIEGO (TheStreet) -- When was the last time you walked into a pharmacy, described your ailment and had a pharmacist whip up a wellness drink designed to treat you on the spot?
That's how 40-year-old Stanley George runs his new, luxury pharmacy in New York City's Lower East Side.
Have a headache? PMS? Had a stress-filled day at work?
No problem, Stanley's Pharmacy has custom wellness drinks to address all of it.
Stanley's Pharmacy is less CVS, Walgreen's or Eckerd and more new age wellness destination meets old-fashioned neighborhood drug store and soda fountain.
"Pharmacies have gone so far away from their roots. I felt a mission to bring that back," says George, a Bronx native.
Located at Ludlow and Hester streets, Stanley's combines a wellness bar that specializes in drinks blended by George with the standard prescription services other pharmacies offer and a wellness library stocked with glossy monthly health, fitness and fashion publications -- all in an atmosphere that is California cool meets 1970s retro.
The store's trademarked Drinks + Drugs menu features pharmacist-recommended wellness cocktails paired with over-the-counter drugs or an herbal remedy to treat ailments. There are also hot and cold medicinal teas, custom organic sodas made by George, espresso drinks and raw coconut water fresh from Thailand.
As for calling it a luxury pharmacy that's less about the prices at Stanley's and more about the overall experience.
After all, anyone can go to a sterile local drugstore and buy a bottle of aspirin to treat a hangover. Stanley's is a throwback to the time customers knew their pharmacist by name and got personalized treatment.


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Holiday Beauty: Starworthy Looks
Every good workout begins with mat work! Ballet Beautiful founder Mary Helen Bowers shares a few of her favorite exercises from her new video series, debuting online next month.
Lengthen Your Bod
"Stretching before and after every workout keeps muscles supple and helps elongate the lines of a ballerina's limbs," says Bowers. "Begin by lying on your back and bringing your leg above you, pulling the ankle gently toward your head. Work toward stretching your knee all the way straight over time. Change legs."
Be Ab-Fab :
"For a ballerina, the center of balance is everything—creating a strong center of balance begins with building strong abdominal muscles," says Bowers. "Lie on your back with your knees slightly bent and the arms open wide in second position. Lift the body up, contracting the abs as you close the arms to first position—a wide yet graceful circle with the hands—just above the abdomen. Pull the stomach in, closing and opening the arms as you lift up and lower. Repeat 30 times."
Beauty It List: Best Holiday Makeup for 2010


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|Mrs. Hagberg
|General Information
|Hair Color:
|Eye Color:
| Former Teacher
(Home Economics, Geography, Math, History)
|Family & Friends
|Principal Figgins (former)
|Other Information
|William McKinley High School Staff
|Series Information
|First episode:
|Prom Queen
|Last episode:
|Mary Gillis
Mrs. Hagberg was a teacher at McKinley High. It is not known if she specialised in a subject, but she appears in a teaching role throughout seasons two and three, often teaching members of the New Directions. She retires from her position in Nationals, the twenty-first episode of Season Three, and has not appeared since then.
She is portrayed by Mary Gillis.
Season Two
Prom Queen
Mrs Hagberg was introduced in Prom Queen in which she is seen teaching Brittany, Mercedes, Kurt and Tina Home Economics before Artie, Sam, Finn, and Puck interrupt her class to sing Isn't She Lovely to Brittany.
Season Three
I Am Unicorn
She returns in this episode, where it's revealed that she is also a Geography teacher. She is astounded that Brittany thinks that the capital of Ohio is O and that the president of the United States is will.i.am.
I Kissed a Girl
It is shown that she is also a Math teacher. When Puck raises his hand to answer a question, she tells him that he doesn't need to ask in order to go to the toilet. She is both astounded and sceptical when Puck tells her the right answer.
The Spanish Teacher
It's revealed that she also is a History teacher, and was forced into retirement due to memory problems. She is shown teaching the history of World War II, wrongly stating that Nazi Germany won and apparently took over the whole world.
Mrs. Hagberg accepts an award for 40 years of service on the stage of the auditorium as she retires. She says she plans to kick her addiction to painkillers, as well as plugging her upcoming appearances on Intervention and Hoarders. This was her final appearance on the show.
- In The Spanish Teacher, it's revealed that she had been teaching for 40 years.
- She was seen teaching a different subject every time she appeared on the show.
- She is addicted to painkillers. (Nationals)
- She appears in the music video for Moves Like Jagger/Milkshake in the "Sexuality" episode of the second season of The Glee Project.