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You exercise your body to stay physically in shape, so why shouldn't you exercise your brain to stay mentally fit? With these daily exercises you will learn how to flex your mind, improve your creativity and boost your memory. As with any exercise, repetition is necessary for you to see improvement, so pick your favorite exercises from our daily suggestions and repeat them as desired. Try to do some mentalrobics every single day!
High cholesterol and high blood pressure are conditions that most people associate with being bad for the heart, but recent research is showing that they are also bad for your head. So, there are now even more reasons to take care of your health.
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Hypertension can also cause memory impairment. Scientists think that the increased blood pressure can cause damage to the tiny blood vessels that terminate in your brain. If these fragile blood vessels get damaged, the neurons that they feed will not be getting the nutrients and oxygen that they need to function at peek performance. Untreated, hypertension can eventually result in dementia, so if you have high blood pressure, make sure you do something about it.
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Preparing students for challenging careers in business, industry, and teaching is the major focus of the Department of Technology. With cutting-edge technology, immersive learning opportunities, and personal attention from leading professors in the field, our graduates gain expertise and credentials for success. Our strong community of faculty, students, and alumni is committed to advancing our clearly articulated mission and goals to promote technological literacy through outstanding teaching, scholarship, and professional service.
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Thunderbolt on Windows Part 2: Intel's DZ77RE-K75 & ASUS' P8Z77-V Premiumby Anand Lal Shimpi on 6/3/2012 2:08 AM EST
- Posted in
- CPUs
- Intel
- Motherboards
- Asus
- Thunderbolt
- Ivy Bridge
- Chipsets
116 Comments
Back to Article
KinslayersLegacy - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - link"The lowest common capacity was 240GB so the resulting logical RAID-0 drive I built was just under 1GB in size."
I assume you meant 1TB in size.
Good article. Can't wait to build a new ASUS workstation & Ivy Bridge so I can use my Thunderbolt drives with my desktop and MacBook Pro interchangeably. Reply
tynopik - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkother typo:
Apple even build -> built Reply
CeriseCogburn - Monday, June 04, 2012 - linkGreat - another proprietary standard that no one can get for a full year, and even after that, only on high end, and redundant anyway, what great innovators you are APPL
Drooling Jobs fanatics can buy a thousand dollar hub to reduce cable clutter... ROFL
It runs a monitor... ROFL
It looks like the marketing managers made this one happen - soon they can force hundreds of millions of upgrades so you can plug one gargantuan "Thundar!" the warrior cable in... for... ahh... for you keyboard mouse drive monitor hub... Reply
KitsuneKnight - Tuesday, June 05, 2012 - linkFYI: Thunderbolt was created by Intel. Apple's contribution was the physical port (mDP). Reply
CeriseCogburn - Tuesday, June 05, 2012 - linkWho the heck cares, I read about this crap years ago.
What does matter is APPL has been a total freaking nazi, and the whole thing is now a year late at least and screwy.
I'm sure you Jobs worshippers are smiling. Reply
CeriseCogburn - Tuesday, June 05, 2012 - linkAlso, this is like APPL's recent sole proprietary acquisition of their SDD anusbit tech.
The rest of the computing world can go to heck and starve out, so long as Jobs fan boys corner the world market on anything they possibly can, including the entire manufacture base, or let's say a video card, or any thing, IPS panels, whatever...
It's the same sick APPL that costs an arm and a leg as it destroys the world of competition.
God they are sick. Reply
Samus - Wednesday, June 06, 2012 - linku mad bro? Reply
S3anister - Friday, June 08, 2012 - linkhe mad, son. Reply
SamuraiArtGuy - Tuesday, June 12, 2012 - linkNot like Professional Mac users don't have stuff to bitch about with Apple. The just unveiled "silent" Mac Pro Update was pretty weak.
No Thrunderbolt, no USB 3, No eSATA, no Bluetooth 4... and for gods sake, no improved graphics cards? Dude's you're KILLIN' us...
No, seriously. K I L L I N G us...
Can totally grok mad, yo. Reply
DERSS - Sunday, June 10, 2012 - linkNot quite; it is a collaboration: Apple was there in the project from very beginning, and even the name itself was Apple's (they transferred TM to Intel only later). Apple also made cable design (there are tens of elements, including like thirteen active ones), and all the mother board engineering, drivers, BIOS, and testing.
Apple was probably the one who brought the idea to Intel. Jobs always wanted to get rid of as many cables and ports as possible and to have one superfast universal port for everything.
The reason why Apple decided not to do it purely alone this time is because Intel's participation would ensure much bigger standard use in the future comparing to what Apple could do alone -- as FireWire interface showed. Reply
MobiusStrip - Thursday, June 14, 2012 - link"Great - another proprietary standard that no one can get for a full year..."
WTF are you even doing on this site? Your knowledge is clearly far below that of the intended audience, so why don't you get back to your consumer-oriented sites and tout the virtues of USB to your fellow dolts? Reply
Pneumothorax - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkIn it's intro, the great prophet Jobs bragged about how superior TB was going to be vs. USB 3.0. Apple's pathetic 1 year exclusivity agreement plus $50 cable and Intel's high priced TB controllers are sure to doom this standard. How many FW400 ports are sitting empty on thousands of motherboards as we speak? Reply
mavere - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - link*shrugs*
Firewire found its niche in high end A/V equipment. Guess what computers those professionals tend to buy?
The fact that TB doubles as a mDP means that TB can coexist with USB just fine, and through Apple, manufacturers are also guaranteed a steady and growing base of affluent costumers. That assures at least some high-end devices for those who require that much throughput.
If you or I need to consistently move files at almost 1 gigabyte/sec, we can now easily do so. The world is improved; progress is achieved; vitriol is unneeded. Reply
ananduser - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkPneumothorax was being realistic. TB could've been managed better and morph into a great solution. Instead it is pushed into a niche because of the whims of 2 companies. He's not berating the tech but the handling of the interface. Reply
coder543 - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkno, he's wrong. TB would have yielded an epic failure if it didn't have Apple pushing it along. What manufacturers would have worked so hard to get TB laptops and desktops on the market? Let alone devices like hard drives! No.. it would've been an eSATA. Reply
jleach1 - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkNo...you're wrong. Just look at the state of Displayport. Reply
Thefinaleofseem - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkYou mean the Displayport that's on a ton of video cards now? The very connector that is the standard for many high-end displays? You mean the interconnect that will because a whole lot more useful when we see ultra high-resolution displays hit the market, most likely this year? The kind that may easily exceed the 4K x 2K max on HDMI? Reply
Shadowmaster625 - Monday, June 04, 2012 - linkDP has been around for years and it is still rarely used. I bet less than 5% of all PCs bought in the last year use it. I know of one, and it is just a nuisance because we dont have any monitors with displayport so it goes right into a dongle. DP was a waste of engineering. In 2012, it still is. It has surely cost the industry millions in lost productivity (WTH is this stupid thing, why dont I have video? Why doesnt my monitor have this port? How do I connect it? Do I NEED to connect it? etc. It is an utter debacle.) Reply
repoman27 - Monday, June 04, 2012 - linkThat's why Intel and AMD are both set to phase-out LVDS support from their product lines over the next couple years and transition to eDP? Because it was a waste of engineering? That's why NPD In-Stat predicts a 95% eDP attach rate in notebook PCs in 2015?
Abut 90 million PCs shipped with DP support last year, or 25% of the global total, vs about 180 million with HDMI. Where DisplayPort needs to gain traction is in the external display market. Although the adoption rate grew by 160% last year, as long as people are happy with cheap 1920x1080 panels, the CE targeted HDMI standard is more than sufficient. Reply
CeriseCogburn - Monday, June 04, 2012 - linkMost people cannot stand as high as 1920X1080 on their desktop panels, and far more don't have close to that on their laptops.
Most people need 1280X1024 to be able to see their icons and text, maximum.
They might be down for 1366X768 no problem, but 1280X800 is much more desirable overall.
You're going to have to upgrade people's eyeballs to get anywhere. Reply
S3anister - Friday, June 08, 2012 - linkMost people have trouble making out text, yes. However, the problem does not lie with a high resolution. It's the fault of OS developers and website developers not coding for anything other than these low-res displays. Reply
S3anister - Friday, June 08, 2012 - linkYou're the kind of person that said "Oh we don't need SATA my IDE drives are perfectly fine."
Imagine how sweet it would be to rock a SSD on a retro IDE interface! Full-on 133, baby. Serious bandwidth. Reply
MobiusStrip - Thursday, June 14, 2012 - linkHDMI was designed for raster-based displays. Yep, CRTs.
WTF is the matter with people cheerleading AGAINST better technology?
USB is wholly unsuited to the demands of high-throughput applications like external storage and video, but you still see noobs trying to pit it against Thunderbolt. It's like they learned nothing from Firewire. Reply
ananduser - Monday, June 04, 2012 - linkApple "pushing" what? Apple didn't push anything, absolutely anything related to TB. Every other OEM would've have the TB interface built in from the start if Intel treated TB like USB, and that is in indiscriminate fashion. OEMs didn't built it in because they were NOT ALLOWED to do so not because it was an impediment. Apple having TB built in has nothing to do with propagating TB and has everything to do with Apple getting its marketing dollars' worth out of TB and bang the "exclusivity" factor of their macs.
No sooner than you cross over the pond(if you're US) mac awareness plummets. What about TB awareness ? There is no such thing. Reply
repoman27 - Monday, June 04, 2012 - linkApple pushed a pile of cash in Intel's direction. They agreed to buy 20 million Thunderbolt controllers in the first 12 months that Intel was shipping them in exchange for exclusivity. I'd wager that cost them more than a quarter billion dollars for the privilege.
This also ensured that 5% of PCs shipped globally included Thunderbolt in its first year of existence. I doubt any other OEM would have made that kind of gamble on a nascent technology such as Thunderbolt. I also doubt that Intel could have produced substantially more Thunderbolt controllers than they already did in 2011. Reply
CeriseCogburn - Monday, June 04, 2012 - linkA bunch of head and pocketbook in the clouds nerds can have their neck beard tickled fancy while they do their elite e dance. It's wonderful. They can look toward the sky while they drool out how dreamy the new tech is. Reply
CeriseCogburn - Tuesday, June 05, 2012 - linkAPPL didn't push it along it hogged it for itself for a whole year so it's insane fanboy base could go goggle eyed and stupid with exclusive world wide only ME handling.
Duh. Reply
MobiusStrip - Thursday, June 14, 2012 - link"Firewire found its niche in high end A/V equipment."
And this kind of comment is bogus. High end? Firewire was REQUIRED on pretty much every CONSUMER video camera from the mid-90s well into the '00s. Firewire was the only way to get video off a DV camera. Reply
ggathagan - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkTB *IS* superior to USB3.
If nothing else, compare USB3's bandwidth of 5 Gbps to TB's bandwidth of 20 Gbps in each direction.
That said, I think many misunderstand ThunderBolt.
It's not a device in-and-of-itself, it's a flexible I/O bus mechanism that's fairly protocol-independent.
So you can use it for FW400/800, USB 3, DP, or Ethernet.
Given that the one-year agreement just ended and PC motherboard are just now beginning to implement TB, your portent of doom is a little premature.
As with any new technology, prices drop as the technology develops and is adopted.
Intel started shipping the 2nd gen TB controllers in April and the design of the Cactus Ridge controller reduces the cost of implementing TB compared to the 1st gen. Reply
Alexvrb - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkYeah except it's an entirely proprietary interface, controlled solely by Intel, and they gave Apple an entire year of exclusivity. I'll be avoiding Thunderbolt like the plague. Reply
CeriseCogburn - Monday, June 04, 2012 - linkToo bad it wasn't nVidia doing it, you'd have a horde of raging, angry amd fans on your bandwagon 100%. It seems to me the APPL factor has reduced that quantity significantly, as in the I'm and mine is better than you and yours scenario, so "embracing" is in order. Reply
Exodite - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkBeta was superior to VHS, as was Firewire to the original USB specs.
Yet it's clear which are footnotes in history and which were actively used.
The problem isn't TB's technical merits, those are solid enough, but rather the implementation.
What use is it for the general consumer?
And what possible point is there in being backwards compatible with mini-DP, which is at best a fringe standard in its own right?
Maybe TB will take off but I fear it's going to be the next Firewire, mostly due to implementation issues. Reply
KPOM - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkThe use of mDP was necessitated because the USB Foundation did not permit Intel to route Thunderbolt through a USB port (though Sony did it anyway). Apple then offered up the mDP.
I see Thunderbolt having a better chance of becoming popular on notebooks. It can become a universal docking port for devices such as the Apple Thunderbolt Display and PC equivalents. Particularly since Intel is pushing Ultrabooks, we may see more people using an Ultrabook plus external monitor as their "desktop" and a tablet for travel. It's better than today's solution where every manufacturer has a proprietary dock that sometimes doesn't even work across notebook lines within the same manufacturer.
TB will never be as popular as USB 3.0, but it doesn't need to be. With USB 3.0 and TB, no other ports are really necessary. USB 3.0 can handle all the peripherals and even external storage, while TB can handle the display, external GPUs, and high speed networking. Reply
jleach1 - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkI see less of an advantage for TB in the workstation place. While its merits will bring it the most significant impact in this area, I see it truly earning it's chops and recognizability in the CE space....specifically, in docking solutions that will allow a new wave of innovation in the mobile market. Ubuntu is already coming to android. Imagine having the ability to drive a high-er Res display from your phone, while powering the device and providing peripheral support through a single cable. Think web top on steroids.
An android phone with a quad core 2.0 ghz processor, popped into a docking station that provides bandwidth for an external gpu, to drive a display and sound, and more than enough networking bandwidth. Reply
derektrotter - Monday, June 04, 2012 - linkThe Thunderbolt chipsets are taking 5W (as mentioned in the articles)!
Your phone would overheat and/or flatten its battery in no time.
Thunderbolt is a poor match for handheld devices, at least right now. Reply
dagamer34 - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkThe BEST a regular consumer might hope for is a dock with USB 3.0, Firewire 800, eSATA, HDMI out, and a multi-card reader. Anything above that is purely professional stuff, meaning the chances of it being adopted on a broad level of consumer devices is almost nil. Reply
KPOM - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkThunderbolt has more than enough bandwidth to handle such an adapter with ease. That's almost what the Apple Thunderbolt Display is (except it has mDP instead of HDMI and USB 2.0 instead of 3.0 - I wouldn't be surprised if the 2012 version gets USB 3.0 ports). Reply
CeriseCogburn - Friday, July 06, 2012 - linkFirewire is used with moveable devices, as the angry mobius stated, 90's vcams for instance.
The firewire plug pulls out like butter compared to usb - and I'd wager that's 3/4ths of firewire's failure. Using it - it freakin unplugs - like.. ALWAYS.
Most usb's are very snug, easier to connect correctly, large enough that you can feel for it blindly... and it's not usually going to come flyig out even when you use the device and move it about a lot.
Firewire - P L U G epic fail. Reply
taltamir - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkThere is a difference between FASTER and SUPERIOR.
+Just works
-Very expensive
-Compatibility and certification issues
+Much faster
These all put together guarantee that TB is going to fail. Reply
coder543 - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkBirth pains. Every interface has them. They don't tell anything about the interface's future once it grows up, if it survives that long. Reply
Jaybus - Monday, June 04, 2012 - linkIt was initially designed for use with an optical PHY. Intel's Silicon Photonics lab simply hasn't yet got all of the pieces together. The goal is to have all of the optical components, laser, detector, lenses, and waveguides, on chip. TB is the result of replacing the optical PHY, which is not yet ready, with an electrical PHY. If Intel ever manages the on-chip optics, then it will drastically increase bandwidth while lowering power requirements and heat. Replace TB's electrical PHY with Intel's original intent, and it will drastically outperform USB, or any other electrical interface, without using more power. Also, the on-chip optics would make the optical interface much cheaper to manufacture and the optical cable should be cheaper too, since it wouldn't require the active circuitry. Reply
rahvin - Monday, June 04, 2012 - linkYou're still going to have an electrical circuit and copper in TB when it goes optical. Otherwise you lose the 10W of bus power it provides. Intel has been very clear that it when it goes optical it is still going to be providing the 10W bus power the spec calls for meaning the copper and electrical will still be there. Reply
Jaybus - Wednesday, June 06, 2012 - linkYes, but just for DC power through the cable. The TB chip doesn't source or regulate the power. The power dissipation for TB chips, electronic or optical, does not include the peripheral power supply, which is the same either way, and also the same for USB 3. Reply
derektrotter - Monday, June 04, 2012 - linkI'm with you.
I can buy a USB 3.0 SATA dock for much less than the price of a TB cable. And I've been able to do so for a year. And people think somehow the cables will become cheap, but given that there are two CPUs in each one, I don't find that likely.
TB may be better, but USB 3.0 is going to cream it. Really it already has.
It's kinda too bad, I'd love to have one of those TB displays to go with my MacBook Air, but given it won't work with any other device in my house (including my other Mac), that's not going to happen.
Also, that display really should have a USB 3.0 hub in it, not a 2.0 one. Reply
KoolAidMan1 - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkEmpty Firewire ports are the fault of ignorant users. To this day it is so much better than USB 2.0. If users ignore TB once the technical kinks are hashed out and prices have stabilized, well, I don't know what to say Reply
vectorm12 - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkHonestly I was gonna reply about this particular post but once I had finished writing the reply I realized you're either a troll of just incredibly ignorant of other usage-scenarios than your own.
In any case I'm not going to dignify that with a detailed reply. Reply
ananduser - Monday, June 04, 2012 - link"Empty Firewire ports are the fault of ignorant users." What a stupid generalizing statement. Reply
Thefinaleofseem - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkThere never was a 1 year exclusivity arrangement. Sony implemented TB on a laptop last summer. Manufacturers largely weren't interested until it came built into the chipset. Reply
repoman27 - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkSony implemented a proprietary interface based on Intel's Light Peak technology. They never called it Thunderbolt because it wasn't. And it still is not built into any chipset. But thanks for playing.
Why does every post about Thunderbolt invite a mega troll-a-thon? Reply
ananduser - Monday, June 04, 2012 - linkWhy does every TB related post invite Apple users willing to defend the adoption scenarios of the interface. I am skeptical and at the same time honest about TB. I believe that it won't take off and will remain a niche. It is not me who is mega-trolling, but rather some of the macusers commenting here. They feel that it's their duty to defend TB since it was Apple pushed and not because of the technical merits(which I don't dispute). Reply
Pneumothorax - Monday, June 04, 2012 - linkI'm a heavy mac user with 2011 MBA, MBP, and 27 imac. AND I currently hate the implementation of TB. As of now you still can't get a TB hard drive for <$300 without gerry-rigging the seagate adapter with a 2.5" HDD as it also has problems with many SSD's. Very bitter as I drank the Apple kool-aid expecting wide-spread adoption after waiting over a year. Reply
repoman27 - Monday, June 04, 2012 - linkSkepticism about Thunderbolt is perfectly fine. Debating its merits versus the alternatives also fine.
In the middle of an already polarized thread, posting statements devoid of a single valid premise could be considered trolling. The same goes for stereotyping and attacking a particular group, e.g. all Mac users.
I probably spend too much time "defending" Thunderbolt, but it has little to do with Apple pushing it. I primarily use laptops, and often wish for higher bandwidth I/O solutions than ExpressCard can provide, so I've been following the technology closely. Reply
SamuraiArtGuy - Tuesday, June 12, 2012 - linkApple is very conspicuously positioning Thunderbolt as the new "everything" high-speed port...
Was interesting to note on the new (very Pro-class priced) retina Macbook Pro... no more Fire Wire, no Ethernet, no optical drive. Apple figures we're DONE with all that. (we'll see.. I've a stack of FW devices ) But they DO include USB 3 (which they get essentially for free with Ivy Bridge ) and rather interestingly, an HDMI port. Reply
B3an - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkDoes Win 8 natively support Thunderbolt? Like it now does with USB 3.0. As in, it no longer needs 3rd party drivers so will just immediately work on a clean install. Reply
ananduser - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkNo, Windows does not support TB and MS has claimed that it will never support TB natively(for the time being) because it is plagued with security issues. Of course a hypothetical massive adoption of the interface might lead to native support. So it's safe to say that if things don't improve in the driver sector TB will remain a niche as FW. Reply
Penti - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkWhy are you trolling? TB is just PCIe, the only issue is hotplug. Windows support hotplug just fine. Prior drivers or BIOS/Firmware might not. It's no more of a security risk then a Expresscard slot which lots of business PC's has. Or for that matter any internal Mini PCI Express slots. Or firewire. Or for that matter USB which is also exploitable to some degree. It's not up to Microsoft or Apple to decide which Thunderbolt appliance they support. Your fully capable to install the drivers yourself. For professional users with notebooks FW or Expresscard definitively isn't an option they need the extra bandwidth it provides for their tools/hardware to work. Without it they need to go to desktop/workstation towers. So there will be strong support. Most hardware won't be supported natively in Windows. If standard drivers works with your device it will work fine no matter OS, those might be shipped with the OS and some might not.
They have no reason to differentiate drivers supporting hotplug with TB and not/old ways of doing things. When support is rolled in it's there. No different to what it has always been. Then again it's not about support for TB but the actual hardware you connect so the question is kinda wrong. There are Thunderbolt devices which don't work natively without 3rd party drivers for OS X too. So I don't see the fuss. External drives won't really move between OS's any way because Windows won't read HFS+ volumes and wise versa with NTFS pretty much. As long as the sata controller receives support your fine though. Reply
B3an - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkI obviously only asked if Win 8 will natively support the Thunderbolt chipset controller. I don't care bout anything else. Win 8 now works with the USB 3.0 controller on my motherboard, so I dont have to install 3rd party drivers for it to function and be recognised in Device Manager. It would be convenient to have the same native support with Thunderbolt is all. So it just works.
And a lot the time you don't have to install drivers for USB hardware, for instance most types of USB storage, printers and wifi cards do not need any 3rd party driver to function on Win 8 RP. If MS natively supported Thunderbolt I'd expect the same for many TB devices as well, especially storage.
Besides, Win 8 has drivers for tens of thousands of devices. It correctly installed display drivers for my CrossFire 6870's, webcam, USB devices, and even everything for my high-end motherboard. Reply
Penti - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkThe Thunderbolt chip and protocol is fully transparent, it's just a PCIe bridge/switch and transport solution. The OS never sees it as some odd device. In practice it no different then that Expresscard adapters need to support hot plug when it comes to consumer stuff. Some hardware always requires third party drivers, it does on Mac too. There is no difference here between Macs support and OEM PC vendors support.
OEM-drivers and so on won't be shipped by Microsoft with Windows and lot of the drivers are lite versions not containing the full functionality.
USB-hardware normally don't need any drivers because they conform to HID, Mass-storage or MTP standards. Those standards are built into the USB-stack and the USB device only speaks the USB protocol and standards. It's kinda like supporting TCP/IP. Other devices often need drivers for full functionality but limited functionality drivers are usually already there. It was in Windows 7 and so on too. Network drivers and so on has been included in some form for decades in Windows.
In a short answer it already has support for the Thunderbolt chipset. It might not have support for the Thunderbolt device, but that is fully up to the developer / vendor as usual. Thunderbolt isn't a storage interface, Microsoft might support the SATA controller used just as they might support a Expresscard adapter for storage usage, might support your on-board PCIe controllers, or they might use a chip that has no Windows support yet to speak of or is newer then anything Microsoft has packaged with their software. We have supported hot plug of PCI devices all the time pretty much. There has always been issues when the hardware added to those don't support it properly or the drivers don't, or BIOS/firmware issues nothing new here. It's exactly the same thing as an internal PCIe card, or an Expresscard adapter or any integrated PCIe solution. As long as there is driver support (and no BIOS/firmware issues) it works fine. There is no controller for the OS to speak with here, it's not like USB or Firewire, the OS speaks directly to the hardware. It already knows how to speak over the PCIe bus.
Plenty of stuff will never get Windows 8 drivers for that matter. Mostly older stuff however.
If Lacie or Promise had used old SATA2-controllers they might already had worked on Windows. TB don't complicate it any more then an ExpressCard to eSATA adapter. In fact there is even ExpresCard-cabinettes for Thunderbolt. It's mainly a feature of PCIe which Windows already has native support for when it comes to the actual Thunderbolt solution. I obviously answered the troll, and also said that your question was the wrong one. The hardware will show up as native hardware. When that native hardware is supported you will have support. It just works if you have the PMC-Sierra/Promise drivers just as the article says. There is nothing more to it when it comes to the OS at least.
Apple probably will provide support for their stuff at some point because they support bootcamp. So look for any drivers there at whatever point they decide to do this. Reply
ananduser - Monday, June 04, 2012 - linkWhy are you so passionate about TB? I recall a specific statement by MS that they won't natively support TB. They do support USB natively. The article itself claims that there are some driver/firmware issues needing ironing out.
Stop calling people names next time. Reply
Penti - Friday, June 08, 2012 - linkPlease provide information and a reference instead of your baseless FUD. Microsoft does support hot plug on PCIe and PCI bridge devices. There is nothing exotic about PCIe. Or extending it externally. They won't stop Thunderbolt working natively, I'm sure some of the drivers included works with it just fine. It's just the same thing as custom USB-devices will need their own drivers when it comes to the actual devices, there is no Thunderbolt driver to be had. The drivers will be the same as if it was a expresscard adapter or some such. If the PCIe controller drivers (which might be there, might not) support it, and supports hotplug it will work with no effort. The difference here is there needs to be a USB-driver supporting the USB-chipset/controller. That drivers happens to be universal against the USB spec, nothing strange. I haven't called anyone names, you where committing an act it should be described as such.
Intel validates and certifies Thunderbolt for Windows PC's so how do you think it would not work or wouldn't be supported and what do you get out of suggesting it won't support it. Or that it would be for any security issue which also plagues Expresscard, Firewire, accessible Mini PCIe slots and to some degree buggy USB-drivers. There is no stance against the PCI bridge that TB is here. PCI-bridges are used inside platform chipsets and so on and Windows wouldn't work without supporting them.
So BIOS/UEFI problems with hot plugging and lacking drivers for peripherals under the Intel Thunderbolt certification program will solve those issues on any hardware with official support made for Windows. Those hasn't officially released yet and unsupported stuff will of course work less better. Apple eventually has to be on the game too but they will lag behind when it comes to compatibility (ACPI issues mainly) under Bootcamp / Compatibility Mode. You don't need to change the OS or to support any "controller" to fix those issues. After all they managed to do it with PCMCIA, CardBus, ExpressCard and so on. Technically it is the same and supported by the same standard as hotplugging other PCIe devices like Expresscard which BIOS/UEFI (standards need to be implemented, but they largely are already) and Windows does support. It's no new technology there to be seen by the OS or Firmware. Thunderbolt are transparent and invisible in that sense, just as it's the network drivers that talks Ethernetframes and not the OS TCP/IP stack. The thunderbolt transport isn't visible and there is no controller for the hardware that needs any drivers/tunneling it's just PCIe bridges and switches. It just falls under the PCIe root complex of the cpu. No nothing stranger. Reply
risa2000 - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkCan you provide a reference to this statement?
Or did you mean security in the sense of "stability"? Reply
coder543 - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkI don't have a link, but he's right. They claim it would lead to security issues because it's a PCI interface. You would have hardware level access to virtually anything. Reply
derektrotter - Monday, June 04, 2012 - linkThese security issues you speak of are solved with an IOMMU.
It would be odd for MS to say they won't support an I/O technology. It's just not something they usually do.
Perhaps the poster was referring to MS' crummy license scheme for Office Mac reacting poorly to Thunderbolt and eSATA drives?
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/mac/forum/macof... Reply
rahvin - Monday, June 04, 2012 - linkIOMMU doesn't solve the DMA threat the Thunderbird provides. These ports will be epoxied shut on every government computer because of that threat. Because Thunderbird is raw PCIe it has direct memory access (DMA) through the device, that means in theory a portable Thunderbird harddrive could directly read and write to the memory of any computer it's plugged into without regulation by the OS or computer. You could in theory create a device that auto exploits every computer it's plugged into. These and other reasons are why the USB association and others have said TB is a major security risk (USB abstracts access and was designed from the ground up to be be secure, TB took all that security and threw it out the window). Reply
repoman27 - Monday, June 04, 2012 - linkIn what ways does IOMMU not provide a viable solution to the threat of DMA attacks?
Has every "government" computer had its available PCIe slots, ExpressCard slots and 1394 ports filled with glue?
It's a good thing USB is so secure that thumb drives have never been used to propagate malware or ever exploited as a threat vector. Oh, wait... That's actually quite common.
A Thunderbolt hardware based attack will never be as cheap and easy to build as those based on other technologies. Besides, unless your hardware device can pass Windows certification, it'll probably just cause a BSOD instead of compromising the target system. :P
Can anyone provide a reference to any statement by Microsoft or the USB-IF regarding security issues with Thunderbolt, other than perhaps mentioning that they are the same as other I/O solutions that allow DMA? The USB-IF was founded by Intel and is also responsible for the stewardship of ExpressCard, so it would seem dubious that they were casting any stones. Reply
ka_ - Tuesday, June 12, 2012 - linkIOMMU does indeed look to resolve my initial reservation against Thunderbolt! However, it is only resolved in machines coming with Intel VT-d or AMD HyperTransport, and if the function is activated in BIOS.
Activating IOMMU does however degrade DMA performance and use more physical memory for the added I/O page translation tables.
What is the performance of Thunderbolt with VT-d / HyperTransport enabled compared with when IOMMU is disabled? Reply
kevith - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkI have asked this question so many times, and the silence has been ROARING.
But, I'l try once more:
WHY do You keep on setting up RAID 0 in different reviews, this one as well, when every single article YOU WROTE YOURSELF points to the - very clear - conclusion, that RAID 0 HAS NO BENEFITS AT ALL IN REAL LIFE?
Maybe I'l get an explanation this time.
Have a nice sunday. Reply
Tormeh - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkRAID0 does have performance benefits, which you have to weigh against stability penalties. In any case, it's good for I/O-testing.
As I've understood it, SSD RAID0 has no performance benefits over a similar size single SSD. That is, two 128GB SSDs in RAID0 has similar performance to a single 256GB SSD. In SSDs a big volume (256GB) is faster than a smaller volume (128GB) regardless of how that volume is achieved, given that controller and NAND quality is the same. Not true for HDDs though. Maybe that's where your confusion comes from. Reply
JarredWalton - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkRAID0 is for getting maximum sustained throughput, at the cost of reliability (e.g. if one drive fails, you lose the RAID0 set). Since there are no SSDs capable of pushing anywhere near the theoretical throughput of ThunderBolt, it's important to set up something that can potentially saturate the interface.
You'll notice that the article never advocates using RAID0; instead Anand states, "In our earlier look at Thunderbolt under Windows I didn't have a working Pegasus driver to really push the limits of the interface's bandwidth. With that now changed, I went to work. I started by pulling out all of the hard drives from the Pegasus R6 and installed four SSDs." I'd think that is all the explanation you need. Reply
3930K - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkAnand, I'm sure a few of us would be grateful if you could pull the Mac TB display drivers and put them in a zip for us Windows users. Reply
coder543 - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkhow would those be useful? they're designed for a unix kernel, not a windows kernel, and even if they were useful... it would still be of dubious legality. Reply
3930K - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkThey worked for An and, so why not us? Reply
coder543 - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkoh.. I thought you meant literally the Mac drivers. I assume you mean the bootcamp drivers. They wouldn't work for you because they aren't his drivers to distribute. Legally, it can't be done. Reply
repoman27 - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkAll you have to do is find any Mac running an up to date version of Mac OS X and run Boot Camp Assistant. Burn the drivers to a CD or USB flash drive, and away you go. There's no need for anyone to distribute Apple's drivers in a manner inconsistent with their license agreement. Reply
Senti - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkThey still continue the same pseudo SATA 6 ports with Marvell controllers on single PCI-E 2.0 lane? Disgusting. Reply
watersb - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkYes, Firewire (IEEE 1394) required DMA to support all modes, posing a relatively obscure but serious security risk. But I can't recall a Firewire hot-plug event triggering a Windows BSOD.
Hot-plug PCI Express. In a consumer-friendly external plug format. I'll be keeping this away from the parental units until 2014.
(but somehow the show must go on.) Reply
Pazz - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - link"At the bare minimum, it can simplify external cable management with only a single cable carrying Ethernet, audio, USB, DisplayPort, etc... from your PC to your Thunderbolt hub and/or display. "
Cable management can't be considered a feature or advantage of thunderbolt over USB when you consider the current pricing of the interface. It's understandably useful, but not practical given the outlay. Reply
philipma1957 - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkI have a lot of apple gear including a pegasus r6 I boot windows with bootcamp on one ssd and mac osx on a second ssd both in my pegasus r6. I would like to be able to use the same pegasus r6 with the pc's.
Can you hook up a mac with 2 drives one labeled bootcamp with windows and one label lion with lion to the pegasus. Also have a pc with a t-bolt mobo hooked up, use the same bootcamp ssd for either machine as the boot drive?
I realize the I can't run the mac while running the pc.
If I could run either one with a few power on power off buttons it would be really nice. seems like it can be done. next question would it be legal? next question if I have a family 3 pack would that make it legal. Reply
repoman27 - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkThe lack of hardware profiles in Windows 7 might make switching back and forth less than smooth as Windows will have to recognize and then activate/deactivate the appropriate devices for each hardware configuration every time you switch.
The other sticky wicket would be Windows activation, which may get triggered each time you switch unless you can make it happy somehow. Folks do seem to be able to get this working for single installations that are bootable via either Boot Camp or Parallels. Reply
CSMR - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkI think for most users looking to simplify cables, thunderbolt is a bad thing.
It adds extra circuitry that is not needed. All that is needed is a passive hub or connector combining usb, ethernet and displayport.
For the typical distance from a laptop to the workstation, a passive connector is appropriate. Reply
repoman27 - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkStop for a moment and consider how many conductors would be required for a cable that simply combined USB 3.0, 1000BASE-T Ethernet and DisplayPort. Now think about the size of the connector it would require. Now ponder the insane amount of issues you would have wrapping all of those conductors in a single jacket, with pairs operating at wildly different signaling rates and voltages.
The point of Thunderbolt is to equip a PC with one tiny connector that can provide an insane amount of bandwidth for connecting displays or external expansion devices. While passive cables that can handle Thunderbolt scale frequencies certainly exist, most of these cables don't include bus power and out-of-band signaling pairs. I think that if Apple could have gotten the job done without resorting to an active cable, they would have. Reply
vol7ron - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - link"Finally, all Thunderbolt traces are on the same PCB layer and don't feature any sharp angles in their route"
For the one path that's right, but look at the other trace right next to it. It has a series of sharper turns than 45 degrees. Especially at the beginning and the ending of the path - at one point it makes a "U"! Reply
JarredWalton - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkBut it is a U and not a squared off |_| shape. I think that's an ASUS-specific implementation as well, but I could be wrong. As for why the U/zigzags are necessary (not that you asked), I guess both TB channels have to have the same trace length, which seems sort of odd to me. AFAIK, you can't actually talk to one device (e.g. a RAID controller in something like the Promise R6) on both channels; one channel is for DisplayPort passthrough, and the other is for the devices to share, right? I'm not sure...but I do think ThunderBolt is 10Gbps bidirectional, so that would make Anand's ~938MB/s results more sensible. Reply
repoman27 - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkI think you're only looking at a single channel in that pic, so the trace lengths probably need to be the same for both the send and receive pairs for each channel to maintain timings. The other channel is most likely on the other side of the board (despite the "no vias" bit) seeing as only 10 of 20 pads for the connector are visible on the side shown.
According to Intel, each direction in each channel can be used for display and/or PCIe data. Each channel is 10 Gbps full-duplex, however, thus far we have only seen Thunderbolt controllers with a single PCIe to Thunderbolt protocol adapter, which limits total PCIe throughput to 10 Gbps.
The Thunderbolt switches built into the controllers, and the Thunderbolt channels that connect them, only transact in Thunderbolt packets—they don't concern themselves with which protocol the upper layers are using. Reply
coder543 - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkShow me the Linux.
Show me the Linux.
Show me the Linux.
Show me the Linux.
Show me the Linux.
Show me the Linux.
Show me the Linux.
Why is it so hard? I thought this was a technically proficient blog but time and time again I'm met with their absolute avoidance of Linux. I don't care one iota how Windows does on Thunderbolt. All I ask is a simple summary -- even a paragraph, about how Linux does on Thunderbolt, especially in regard to hot plugging. I hate to be annoying, but it bothers me tremendously.. Windows is inferior in every intrinsic technical capacity -- the only thing that makes it better for some people is the application compatibility. Reply
coder543 - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkAlso, it hasn't come to Windows PCs. It has come to non-Apple computers. I honestly wonder if Anand has ever used a serious Linux distro for more than ten minutes.. he talks as if there is only one player. Thunderbolt has serious implications in the server market, they just haven't been defined yet. Think about what can be done with it. There's no shortage of possibilities. Reply
coder543 - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkLooking historically, there hasn't been a Linux post here since January, and no Linux posts on this blog have ever been written by Anand. I smell MSCE. Time to branch out. Reply
CSMR - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkThunderbolt is not for servers. The year of the linux desktop is next year, as usual. Thunderbolt seems to be mainly for laptops, and the year of the linux laptop has not even been announced. Reply
coder543 - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkI dislike responding to trolls, but I had little better to do at the moment, so for anyone who looks back they will have little doubt as to what went down here.
I never said anything about the year of the Linux desktop. Linux doesn't need to win the desktop, as the desktop is rapidly becoming historical for most of the population. Everyone already uses Linux on a daily basis -- namely the web, their not-iPhone smartphones, their Kindles and Nooks, their Smart TVs, blu-ray players... everything. Even though Android is the major Linux smartphone/tablet OS for now, Boot2Gecko promises another Linux smartphone OS, and WebOS going open source is also more Linux. When people lose their desktops (and laptops), what's left? Linux. We don't care if you put it on your desktops, we've already won the battles that matter. End users don't want desktops or laptops these days. They want Kindle Fires and iPads -- things that aren't Windows. Apple is good stuff. Microsoft Windows is not. (WP7 on the other hand is actually respectable)
Thunderbolt does have uses in a server environment, a high speed interface which provides direct access to the PCI subsystem with daisy chaining support. If you can't see the potential there, then I don't know what to tell you. There are few uses for it *right now*, but in the future there will be, though it may not be for a few years, and the entrepreneur which utilizes it to his advantage will be a marked success.
Linux doesn't need to win the desktop share as I said, but it's currently far better than Windows, and if it's installed by someone technical, then anyone can use it, most of them with less frustration. What do most users do that isn't inside of a browser, word processor, email client, or music manager? Linux has every major browser that isn't called IE, and even then it can have IE in an interesting way, and LibreOffice does everything the average user need from an Office suite -- or they could run MS Office through wine where it is as deeply integrated as a native application. Thunderbird and Evolution are both great email clients, but Geary/Postler is redefining the end user email client. Music managers are a dime a dozen, any flavor you like. Banshee, Rhythmbox, Amarok, Noise, the list goes on, and all of them work very well.
This is all with the consideration that the computer doesn't reboot once every five minutes, consumes less RAM, is easier on the processor, and doesn't need antivirus, while supporting more file formats out of the box. Also, you don't need to install a driver for everything (or anything I've ever encountered for that matter) you plug in, and especially not flash drives. (Windows says installing driver when you plug flash drives in..) Let's not even mention saving the cost of Windows license -- everyone likes saving money.
How is that not a victory? Getting a faster, more intelligent, and less vulnerable computer. Just because the majority are ignorant or obstinate means little about the value of the product. Just because the majority decide it's ok to do a heinous crimes against their own population doesn't make it right. Linux five years ago was a steamy pile of crap, but things aren't now how they were then. Yet it doesn't matter. Linux was used in a bait-and-switch victory, and Microsoft is afraid. Their fear is the reasoning behind everything in Windows 8, and they have sealed their fate. Reply
Iketh - Monday, June 04, 2012 - linkMy goodness, I have never seen such a huge post say absolutely nothing... Reply
mikbe - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkSo it's a non-standard standard that even one of the creators refuses to follow. Sounds really useful.
I'll wait till they figure it all out; as I imagine most people will. Which of course means it won't ever get popular enough to drop in price so it will be expensive and flacky which will keep people away so it won't ever get popular enough to drop in price so it will be expensive and flacky which will keep people away so it won't ever get popular enough to drop in price so it will be expensive and flacky which will keep people away so it... Reply
coder543 - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkwhat do you mean one of the creators refuses to follow? Reply
Impulses - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkFrankly I don't see wide spread adoption of TB on the desktop ever taking root... The cable management argument is debatable (i wouldn't want most cables hanging off my displays), and other applications simply cater to usage cases that are already a niche.
TB does hold a ton of promise as a docking solution for laptops tho, I certainly hope Intel stands by it and doesn't grind progress to a halt with the cert program. You'd think this would be the prefect complement to their ultrabook push, they should practically be giving the controllers away to ultrabook manufacturers. Reply
chaoflux - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkCould you by chance test whether two thunderbolt displays daisy chained works w/ the Intel or Asus motherboard? I have two displays which work fine daisy chained on my mbp w/ os x, but not bootcamp (only 1 display works in bootcamp) - though hot plugging doesn't work either w/ bootcamp on the mbp, so I'm moderately curious if one of these Intel certified boards resolves the dual display in Windows issue as well. Reply
repoman27 - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkCurious about this as well, but there's also a good possibility that these boards only use the 2C Cactus Ridge controller or only have a single DP source connected anyway. Reply
counter03 - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkfor asus p8z77-v premium, is it support three independent displays using Ivy bridge? i mean just connect three monitors to hdmi and dp and thunderbolt on board. Reply
repoman27 - Monday, June 04, 2012 - linkI'm not sure if I just missed it, but it was not clear to me which board you were using for the performance figures that were in the article. Was it the Asus or Intel board that was used for the benchmarks?
Also, a much more plausible explanation for the modest performance decrease experienced during your Windows tests is that the 15-inch MacBook Pro you originally tested with had the Thunderbolt controller connected to the PCIe lanes coming directly off of the CPU, not the PCH. On that test you were very close to the theoretical maximum throughput of 1028 MB/s (figuring a 128 byte max TLP payload size and bare minimum of overhead.) Trying to get higher aggregate throughput with multiple Thunderbolt devices only works to a point, and then the additional overhead created by multiple devices starts to diminish the bandwidth available for payload data. If you're trying to bury the needle, I think the Pegasus on its own loaded with 4 matched high performance SSDs is the way to go for now.
I chuckled when I read this bit: "Interfaces like USB are great because you can generally count on anything that physically fits in the port just working." I'm guessing you don't plug printers into your USB ports very often, do you? Reply
ypsylon - Monday, June 04, 2012 - linkThunderbolt will die virtually over night when external PCI-Express will be introduced. It will be MUCH cheaper, it won't involve patent rights and license buyouts gibberish, it will offer the same bandwidth, and most important ALL desktops are equipped with PCI-Ex lanes already. Need only a simple card with a connector without some proprietary idiocies. In short couldn't care less about Thnunderbolt, leave it for Apple - to use euphemism - followers. It will end like Firewire. The End. Reply
bottlething - Monday, June 04, 2012 - linkAnand, in your Thunderbolt Display review, you mentioned the possibility of combining the ethernet-port on the display with the Mac's ethernet-port (IEEE 802.3ad Link Aggregation).
This link explains how:
- What is to be expected of this scenario? (given a local network with a IEEE 802.3ad-compliant switch)
A similar question on Apple Communities have yet to be replied upon..
- Any thoughts/experiences/results on this "feature" would be appreciated :)
Thanks in advance Reply
Shadowmaster625 - Monday, June 04, 2012 - linkMy CAD program would choke and die if it tried to make a curved trace.
Leaving external GPUs aside, what purpose is there to having thunderbolt? You guys dont ever seem to review any docking solutions, but it seems like the new Toshiba Dynadock USB 3.0 can drive two 1080p display and run ethernet and sound and mouse/kb. Right now I would still have to pay more money to use a thunderbolt one-cable dock solution. Reply
ka_ - Monday, June 04, 2012 - linkThe one thing that will keep me away from TB is the major problem that any device can access the DMA of any connected devices essentially removing all security of any system with TB - except if by disabling DMA while using the plug. I have come to notice that Apple have a undocumented method to disable DMA on TB <http://matt.ucc.asn.au/apple/>, though it indicates this method only apply to the Firewire over TB exploit, and it likely is not much time until someone have a better method. But if it is possible do disable DMA/restrict DMA access on the machines, then TB might even eventually get accepted by the security focused audience too?
If possible do disable DMA under Windows/Linux how much would this degrade the TB performance? Reply
repoman27 - Monday, June 04, 2012 - linkDisabling DMA for Thunderbolt is akin to disabling DMA for PCIe, i.e. not practical. IOMMU will hopefully provide security for these types of scenarios, but the driver implementation just isn't there yet.
Does the fear of DMA attacks prevent you from using PC's with available PCIe slots, ExpressCard or IEEE 1394 ports? Hardware DMA attacks require physical access to the machine or some sort of social engineering ploy. If an attacker has physical access to your machine, they would most likely try many other vectors before resorting to a DMA attack. DMA attacks generally involve custom hardware which is time consuming and expensive to develop. Do you really see someone buying or creating a custom piece of Thunderbolt hardware just to attempt to compromise PCs under your control?
While these types of security vulnerabilities are real, exploitation of them is rather uncommon, and for the foreseeable future, far more likely to come in the form of FireWire or ExpressCard than Thunderbolt.
If someone ships you a shiny new Pegasus R6 with a note saying, "You're the lucky winner!" just sell it on eBay and move on. Reply
ka_ - Monday, June 04, 2012 - link"While these types of security vulnerabilities are real, exploitation of them is rather uncommon, and for the foreseeable future, far more likely to come in the form of FireWire or ExpressCard than Thunderbolt."
Completely wrong - The firewire exploit is possible to do on any TB and the exploit is already in the wild: <http://www.breaknenter.org/2012/02/adventures-with...
Even script kiddies can apparently do this attack against TB and firewire already...
So yes - I would indeed sell the machine coming with this port unless there is a way to prevent DMA access for units connected through the TB port.
I think Asus UX32VD-DB71 or one of the UX31A's which does not have TB, Firewire, ExpressCard or any of the other easily exploitable ports. Reply
repoman27 - Monday, June 04, 2012 - linkDid ya read the article you linked to? Did ya understand any of it? Because I had already done so, and came away with a very different assessment of the severity of the threat in question.
The exploit as described is a FireWire DMA attack requiring physical access to the PC along with several bulky hardware devices costing many hundreds of dollars. The pointlessness of this exercise is especially extreme, because at the time it was written, the only PC with Thunderbolt but lacking FireWire was the 2011 MacBook Air.
I don't generally let script kiddies hang out in my house, but I'd probably notice if they left an Apple Thunderbolt Display or a Sonnet Echo ExpressCard/34 Thunderbolt Adapter, ExpressCard FireWire adapter, 2.0 m Apple Thunderbolt cable, FireWire cable and "attack" PC running Linux lying about attached to my MacBook Air. Just sayin'. Reply
ka_ - Monday, June 04, 2012 - linkThe article specify "or equivelent" - ebay got a thunderbird to firewire adaptor from USD 4.25
And no - you dont need daisy chain except to test some of the more advanced hacks there...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-pin-Firewire-to-Thunderb... Reply
repoman27 - Tuesday, June 05, 2012 - linkThat's a 6-pin to 8-pin FireWire adapter you moron.
I guess if you can fall for eBay listings like that, you need to protect yourself pretty darn well against potential social engineering attacks. Good luck with that. Reply
repoman27 - Tuesday, June 05, 2012 - linkSorry, I didn't really mean to call you a moron. I wish this site allowed editing of posts. Reply
ka_ - Tuesday, June 05, 2012 - linkNo problem - I might have been to hasty including the first search result I found for "Thunderbolt to Firewire" converter/adapter. There are others too such as
The real point I am trying to make is that you most certainly wont need expensive hubs or daisy chains to perform this attack - any adapter/converter will do.
In fact - Firewire was only used to demonstrate that the problem still persist with Thunderbolt. That particular exploit can be prevented by simply blacklisting Firewire / 1394 devices, however that is only keeping the currently known exploit from happening.
Since Thunderbolt have DMA access on its own, it is only a matter of time before an exploit can be made with no conversion at all!
I know there are USB2/3 to Firewire converters too, which might make USB3 vulnerable to the same exploit even though USB3 in itself does not have DMA access. So all firewire is indeed on my blacklist even though I don't have any firewire ports on my laptop. Reply
jontech - Monday, June 04, 2012 - linkenthusiasts would have been tripping over themselves calling it the second coming.
The fact is, Intel can ramp up TB to 100GB in the next couple of years. USB can't keep up.
The footprint is much smaller, mDP vs USB so it's perfect for Notebooks and allows for breakout and dock solutions that include many other technologies
It is here to stay, and the fact that Apple pushed it and has every one of their computers with it means that those companies who have made TB devices have been rewarded with sales. Reply
rs2 - Tuesday, June 05, 2012 - linkYou killed my interest in Thunderbolt when you said:
"Interfaces like USB are great because you can generally count on anything that physically fits in the port just working. With Thunderbolt on Windows we now have a situation where you can't assume the same."
That is *not* the way to introduce a new connectivity standard. If I can't plug any Thunderbolt device into any Thunderbolt connector and *know* for a fact that it will work without issue, then something is very seriously wrong. Reply
BigBoss88 - Wednesday, June 06, 2012 - linkI am using a thunderbolt display with my P8Z77 Premium motherboard. Everything works fine without issue, sound, USB hub, firewire. I even have Lucid MVP Virtu running my HD7970 in "headless mode". It runs my games flawlessly. My machine is a beast with a high quality expensive display. Let all the hate posts flood in! C'mon NAAAHHHHHHH! * in my Trey Parker Tinasaurus voice* Reply
CeriseCogburn - Friday, July 06, 2012 - linkSo yourmum would be proud ? Maybe yourmum is glad the big fat bug got worked out after the who knows how long frustrations...
yourmum aka bb88 : " I feel people should know this already BUT just incase, if you do plan on using an Apple thunderbolt or ANY thunderbolt enabled display- Make sure you leave the discrete graphics card OUT of your system until you set the BIOS/UEFI for the computer to have integrated graphics ENABLED before you install your beefy GPU for Virtu support. Do not set it to AUTO either. And on that note I will end my review. "
Gee, sorry to hear the setup was such a hassle. Was that hateful enough ? Do you feel better now that you got some attention ? Reply
twotwotwo - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - linkYou have to wonder if Apple shot themselves in the foot with the exclusive deal. Making it widely available would have meant more compatible devices "for free," and only(?) cost Apple bragging rights for a year. If, instead, it had been available in different speeds and only Apple had the right to deploy the fastest one, or something like that, it could have wound up an advantage for them.
But temporary exclusivity on a standard, when you've still got just a fraction of the desktop/laptop market (quite unlike the mobile world), seems like a prize you don't want. Reply
Asterix007 - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - linkDo you guess a MB with Thunderbolt should work on a Imac27 (avril2011) with Thunderbolt port and TB cable also ?
With the CMD+F2, we could commute iMac as a display...
I tried with the Z77A-GD80 but no success for the moment...
Thx for help ! Reply
CeriseCogburn - Friday, July 06, 2012 - linkI wonder how long it took for the "engineers" to figure that out... or...
" We've been doing it this way for 5 decades, now you want to change things?!"
Slalom and curve instead of highest g near right angle turns - with 3%+ to 7%+ improvements.
We are progressing... slowly, very slowly, as so many facts are ignored too often. Reply
nanofunk - Tuesday, July 10, 2012 - linki am wondering if linux support for thunderbolt will ever be ready. there are currently a lot of troubles with the implementation, when you check the linux kernel mailinglist. if there is not at least (hotplugged) networking up and running, i don't see why we should invest in thunderbolt at all. Reply


text:
"With the weather cooling off, what a great way to make a rich, delicate soup that the whole family can enjoy. To me, this is a great way to start off the HOLIDAY'S! There is nothing better than starting the fireplace on a cold evening and enjoying some good ole comfort food with the family," Chef Lee said.
Prep Time: 20 minutes
Cook Time: 55 minutes
Serves: 6
- 1 cup finely chopped onion
- 1/2 cup finely chopped carrots
- 1/4 cup finely chopped celery
- 1/4 cup finely chopped leeks, whites only, well rinsed
- 1/2 cup Occtavio Olive Oil (HEB Cooking Connection)
- 2 tablespoons Old Bay Seasonings
- 2 bay leaves
- 1 tablespoon fresh thyme
- 4 teaspoons minced garlic
- 1/2 cup all-purpose flour
- 1 quart Seafood Stock, room temperature
- 1 1/2 cup HEB Heavy Cream
- 2 teaspoons HEB Kosher Salt
- 1/2 teaspoon Adams Reserve Cayenne Pepper (HEB Cooking Connection)
- 1 pound King Crab meat, picked over for shells and cartilage (HEB Seafood Department)
- 2 steamed King Crab Clusters (HEB Seafood Department)
- 1/4 cup chopped green onions
- 1/4 cup chopped fresh parsley
1. In a large pot, heat the oil over medium heat. Add the chopped vegetables and cook, stirring, until softened, about 6 to 8 minutes. Add the Old Bay, bay leaves and thyme, and stir. Add the garlic and cook, stirring, for 30 seconds. Sprinkle in the flour and stir to coat evenly. Cook, stirring with a wooden spoon, until thick and a light roux forms, about 10 minutes. Add the stock, stirring until blended. Bring to a boil. Reduce the heat and simmer, uncovered, stirring occasionally, for 30 minutes.
2. Add the heavy cream, salt, cayenne pepper and crabmeat and simmer for 5 minutes. Place the King Crab Legs in a steamer to heat up. Remove the soup from the heat and adjust the seasoning, to taste. To serve, ladle the soup in a deep rimmed bowls.
3. Garnish each serving with 1 King Crab Leg, green onions and chopped parsley. Serve hot.
Copyright 2012 by Click2Houston.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


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A big "Thank you!" to MOPA's staff!
So this is it. Today is my last day as an intern at MOPA and I feel sad this will be my last blog post! I was here for six months but time went by really fast. I remember the first day when I arrived. Vivienne, the deputy director of MOPA, showed me around MOPA and Balboa Park and introduced me to everyone. I thought I wouldn't be able to remember the names of everyone working here, but I surely do now! I arrived the same week as Danny, the current marketing & communications manager, who was a great supervisor during this internship. He taught me many things, from writing press releases, promoting museum events on online calendars, reaching out to photography meet up groups, to using programs such as MailChimp, Google Analytics for web statistics, Microsoft Excel for researching and updating press contacts, and more! I also got to work with the Development and Store Teams, which was fun! This internship helped make up my mind for my future professional career. Now I really want to work in the marketing department of an art organization if possible.
I feel really thankful for what everyone in MOPA's team taught me but also for being so nice and truly friendly. It was nice because I got to know everyone better as time went by. Thank you Melissa for organizing the fun field trips; Vivienne and Katrina, Joaquin and Christina for helping me every time I asked you; Lori and Heather for speaking French with me; Deborah, Scott, Sophia, Kristie, Selina, Jana, John, Chantel, Megan, Joey, Courtney, Kevin, Savannah and Jazmine for being so nice and welcoming; Thank you to everyone else at MOPA; and thank you one more time Danny! I felt easily integrated at MOPA. It is very enjoyable to work here because everyone seems to be enjoying what they are doing. This was my first long-time internship and I will miss MOPA.
My best memory at MOPA was the 1983 Pop Thursday with the Push Pin Party which was really fun. We dressed up as in the 1980's and listened to some 80's famous songs. I also really liked the opening of the Picture of the Year:International exhibition. I used to have an interest for journalism, and it was very fun to look at all the photojournalism pictures hanging there! I also feel glad I got to be at MOPA for the Richard Branson and Chris Mc Caw events, because I wouldn't have had this kind of opportunities otherwise.
I encourage anyone looking for an internship to apply to MOPA, there are many different kinds of interns. You can find them on the website at http://www.mopa.org/join/volunteer I hope to keep in touch with MOPA's team and I will definitely come back visit MOPA if I have any opportunity in the future!
Top picture: Dana (a former Special Events & Development intern) and me during the 1983 Pop Thursday event.
Right: A surprise picture of me working.


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The seats were filled up to the nosebleeds last night at Kelly Clarkson's show at Verizon Theatre. Clearly, North Texas loves the Burleson native and very likely, the show was sold out. Or that's what the frustrated guy outside screamed to the scalper. The crowd was sick with adoration — and I learned why. Clarkson is not so much a star as much as she is a genuine and personable talent. It's hard not to appreciate her.
From behind a scrim flashing headlines of KC, she warms the audience with "Dark Side" from her latest album Stronger. It was a moody piece and offered a tepid opening, but she soon came center stage to rock out with "Behind These Hazel Eyes" that amplified the already high energy into the stratosphere. She finished her troika of an opening with a surprisingly early "Since U Been Gone."
Clarkson was in great vocal shape and her band could rock the shit out her songs taking them from mere pop radio hits to arena-sounding levels. But it was after her first three songs that I saw the magic of Clarkson. She really is the girl next door with her aw shucks sassy and fun demeanor. Every little comment she made about being home resulted in deafening roars and she punctuated her homegrown flavor with a thick "kuntry" accent. Giving a shout to her friends and family in the audience was just a uproarious for the rest of venue. Clarkson was without any doubt, the homecoming queen for the night.


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Saxophone Orchestra 8 (WIND4031)
This unit will help to develop ensemble skills that are essential for saxophonists playing in any conducted ensemble. The aim of this series of units is that the saxophonist will learn how to follow a conductor, listen to others, learn how to blend with other saxophonists and be able to play in a variety of styles.
Our courses that offer this unit of study
Further unit of study information
2 hr rehearsal/wk
A final grade will be compiled from continual assessment of professional demeanour and ensemble skills demonstrated during rehearsals and performances (100%).
Faculty/department permission required?
Unit of study rules
Study this unit outside a degree
Non-award/non-degree study
If you wish to undertake one or more units of study (subjects) for your own interest but not towards a degree, you may enrol in single units as a non-award student.
Cross-institutional study
If you are from another Australian tertiary institution you may be permitted to underake cross-institutional study in one or more units of study at the University of Sydney.


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TALLAHASSEE, Fla. - Fla. Gov. Rick Scott is naming a former public school teacher to the State Board of Education.
Scott on Monday appointed Rebecca Fishman Lipsey to the panel that oversees public schools as well as state and community colleges. Lipsey taught in New York City but also worked for Teach for America - a teaching program that has been criticized by teacher unions.
The 32-year-old Lipsey will take the spot now held by Kathleen Shanahan. Shanahan, a chief of staff for former Gov. Jeb Bush, will remain on the board until the end of the year.
Shanahan had also been chairman of the state board until a year ago when she abruptly resigned from the position.
Just last week Shanahan publicly criticized Scott for failing to attend his own schools summit.
Copyright 2013 by The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


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Ancestry.co.uk have recently put online Poll Books that are part of the London Metropolitan Archives holdings. Although held by a London based archive these poll books cover the UK. They mainly cover the time period 1832 – 1872, but some date back earlier.
Prior to 1872 voters had to declare publicly who they were voting for. There was much concern that voters could be bought by a candidate to ensure their success. These documents are well worth searching as it was not just the wealthy who could vote, tradesmen often appear amongst the list of voters.


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|Human Cells
|Human Cell lysate that Influenza A H1N1 Neuraminidase / NA ( N295S mutation ) transfected / overexpressed for Western blot (WB) positive control. The whole cell lysate is provided in 1X Sample Buffer (1X modified RIPA buffer+1X SDS loading buffer).
|A DNA sequence encoding the Influenza A virus (A/California/04/2009 (H1N1)) neuraminidase (ACP41107.1) (Met 1-Lys 469) was expressed, the cell lysates are collected, and bio-activity was tested. There is an amino acid change from Asparagine to Serine (N295S mutation) in NA / Neuraminidase.
|The recombinant influenza A H1N1 Neuraminidase comprises 469 amino acids and has a predicted molecular mass of 52 kDa.
|Cell lysate was prepared by homogenization in ice-cold modified RIPA Lysis Buffer with cocktail of protease inhibitors (Sigma). Cell debris was removed by centrifugation. Protein concentration was determined by Bradford assay (Bio-Rad protein assay, Microplate Standard assay). The cell lysate was boiled for 5 min in 1 x SDS loading buffer (50 mM Tris-HCl pH 6.8, 12.5% glycerol, 1% sodium dodecylsulfate, 0.01% bromophenol blue) containing 5% b-mercaptoethanol, and lyophilized.
|Modified RIPA Lysis Buffer: 50 mM Tris-HCl pH 7.4, 150 mM NaCl, 1mM EDTA, 1% Triton X-100, 0.1% SDS, 1% Sodium deoxycholate, 1mM PMSF.
|12.5% SDS-PAGE Stained with Coomassie Blue after protein purification.
|Samples are stable for up to twelve months from date of receipt.
|1. Centrifuge the tube for a few seconds and ensure the pellet at the bottom of the tube. 2. Re-dissolve the pellet using 200μL pure water and boil for 2-5 min. 3. Store the lyophilized cell lysate at 4℃. After re-dissolution, recommend to aliquot it into smaller quantities and store at -80℃.
|1 X Sample Buffer (1 X modified RIPA buffer+1 X SDS loading buffer).
|Store at 4℃. After re-dissolution, aliquot and store at -80℃.
|Western blot (WB): Use at an assay dependent dilution.
Other Applications: Not tested.
Optimal dilutions/concentrations should be determined by the end user.
Neuraminidases are enzymes that cleave sialic acid groups from glycoproteins. Influenza neuraminidase is a type of neuraminidase found on the surface of influenza viruses that enables the virus to be released from the host cell.
Influenza neuraminidase is composed of four identical subunits arranged in a square. It is normally attached to the virus surface through a long protein stalk. The active sites are in a deep depression on the upper surface. They bind to polysaccharide chains and clip off the sugars at the end. The surface of neuraminidase is decorated with several polysaccharide chains that are similar to the polysaccharide chains that decorate our own cell surface proteins.
Neuraminidase (NA) and hemagglutinin (HA) are major membrane glycoproteins found on the surface of influenza virus. Hemagglutinin binds to the sialic acid-containing receptors on the surface of host cells during initial infection and at the end of an infectious cycle. Neuraminidase, on the other hand, cleaves the HA-sialic acid bondage from the newly formed virions and the host cell receptors during budding. Neuraminidase thus is described as a receptor-destroying enzyme which facilitates virus release and efficient spread of the progeny virus from cell to cell.
Influenza antibody and influenza antibodies are very important research tools for influenza diagnosis, influenza vaccine development, and anti-influenza virus therapy development. Monoclonal or polyclonal antibody can be raised with protein based antigen or peptide based antigen. Antibody raised with protein based antigen could have better specificity and/or binding affinity than antibody raised with peptide based antigen, but cost associated with the recombinant protein antigen is usually higher. Anti influenza virus hemagglutinin (HA) monoclonal antibody or polyclonal antibody can be used for ELISA assay, western blotting detection, Immunohistochemistry (IHC), flow cytometry, neutralization assay, hemagglutinin inhibition assay, and early diagnosis of influenza viral infection.
Sino Biological has developed state-of-the-art monoclonal antibody development technology platforms: mouse monoclonal antibody and rabbit monoclonal antibody. Our rabbit monoclonal antibody platform is one of a kind and offers some unique advantages over mouse monoclonal antibodies, such as high affinity, low cross-reactivity with rabbit polyclonal antibodies.


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The deadline to apply for summer graduation has passed.
For more information, please contact your Academic Advising Center at www.advising.txstate.edu (undergraduates) or the Graduate College at www.gradcollege.txstate.edu/Current_Students/Graduation.html (graduate students).
To be eligible to participate in your commencement ceremony, the following requirements must be met:
While applying for graduation, you may have noticed that your name needs to be updated in the University database. For example, adding your full middle name instead of just a middle initial.
In order to change your name with the University, you must submit a Personal Information Update Request with The Office of the University Registrar. http://www.registrar.txstate.edu/our-services/personal-info-update.html
This name change will affect your diploma, the commencement program, your name Reader Card, and all other university documents.
For the participation policy, please visit the following link: http://www.txstate.edu/commencement/candidate-information/Participant-Policy.html.
You should plan on arriving at least one hour prior to the start of your ceremony to either Gym 101 or Gym 102. Jowers Gyms are accessible from University Events Center/Strahan's south concourse and signs are located in the concourse to direct you. Please also refer to the Map of University Events Center/Strahan Arena for more details.
Upon arriving at your gym, you will check in with staff from your Academic Advising Center (undergraduates) or staff from the Graduate College (graduate students). Here you will receive your reader card, receive any honors cords, and line up for the processional into the University Events Center/Strahan Arena. Please keep your reader card in hand at all times prior to and during the ceremony.
If you have questions about how your name will be pronounced during diploma presentations, please contact your Academic Advising Center at www.advising.txstate.edu (undergraduates) or the Graduate College at www.gradcollege.txstate.edu/Current_Students/Graduation.html (graduate students).
Please leave all personal belongings (purses, jackets, etc.) with a family member prior to arrival at the gyms. The University is not responsible for any personal items left in the gyms or on the University Events Center/Strahan Arena floor.
For security purposes, all persons attending commencement are asked to keep handbags, camera bags, and tote bags to a minimum. All articles brought into the facility will be subject to search, and this may delay persons from entering the University Events Center/Strahan Arena.
When you check in with your college you will be given a reader card with your name and a number representing your place in the candidate processional. Please keep this card in hand at all times prior and during the ceremony. When you approach the stage during diploma presentations, you will hand your card to the Commencement Reader.
If you have questions about how your name will be pronounced during diploma presentations, please contact your Academic Advising Center at www.advising.txstate.edu (undergraduates) or the Graduate College at www.gradcollege.txstate.edu/Current_Students/Graduation.html (graduate students).
All undergraduate candidates must wear the official regalia (black cap and gown, maroon and gold tassel) which can be purchased at the University Bookstore at https://www.bookstore.txstate.edu. It is recommended that you purchase your cap and gown early to avoid any unnecessary delay or inconveniences on your graduation day. The University Bookstore will be on site during commencement with a limited number of caps, undergraduate gowns, and tassels, as well as other Texas State merchandise, available for purchase.
NOTE: Undergraduate students should wear their tassel on the right side of their cap until degrees are conferred and then the tassel may be moved to the left side of the cap to signify degree confirmation.
Graduate Master's and Specialist candidates must purchase their official regalia (cap, hood, Master's gown, and tassel) from the University Bookstore prior to the ceremony. Hood colors vary depending on your academic program, see the following website for hood colors: http://www.gradcollege.txstate.edu/Current_Students/Graduation/Mas-Doc_hood_colors.html. University Bookstore staff will be available in-store to assist you.
Graduate Doctoral candidates must rent their official regalia (tam, Doctoral robe, and tassel) from the University Bookstore. University Bookstore staff will be available in-store to assist you. For information on Texas State gown and hood colors, please visit www.gradcollege.txstate.edu.
For information regarding honor cords and stoles, please visit the Frequently Asked Questions page at http://www.txstate.edu/commencement/candidate-information/faq.html.
To be eligible for graduation with honors, a student seeking a bachelor's degree must have completed at least 54 semester credit hours preceding graduation at Texas State. Calculation of the GPA to determine honors status is based on all Texas State work applied to the first bachelor's degree, including work completed in the final semester.
Hours earned through Texas State correspondence courses and extension courses count toward GPA and honors eligibility. Hours earned through Texas State credit-by-examination, work/life experience, and other courses that offer only "CR" (pass/fail) grades also count toward honors eligibility, but they do not count toward GPA. Remedial courses with a "CR" grade and graduate courses do not count toward honors eligibility or GPA.
Transfer students who have earned at least 54 semester hours at Texas State are eligible to graduate with honors if their Texas State GPAs meet the above criteria. Students earning second bachelor's degrees are eligible for graduation with honors if they complete 54 or more hours at Texas State in pursuit of their second degrees.
Undergraduate students earning a Texas State GPA of:
3.40-3.59 will graduate Cum Laude
3.60-3.79 will graduate Magna Cum Laude
3.80-4.00 will graduate Summa Cum Laude
This is an important day in your academic career. Keep in mind there will be a professional photographer at the commencement ceremony and you may also be taking photographs with family and friends. There is no dress code; however we suggest that you dress appropriately for this special occasion. Please know that all candidates will be walking up and down several flights of stairs to reach their seats in the University Events Center/Strahan Arena. Though disabled seating is available, most guests will need to utilize stairs to reach their seats. Comfortable shoes are recommended.
Formation: In the Jowers gyms, you will be placed in line alphabetically by level (1-Doctoral, 2-Master's, and 3-Bachelor's)
Processional: Led by faculty, you will process into University Events Center/Strahan Arena, walk down the stairs, and be seated on the floor. Candidates with mobility issues or other special needs should alert the Advising Center or Graduate College staff prior to the start of the ceremony.
Diploma Presentations: After degrees have been conferred, you will be recognized by name and will be presented a diploma cover by the College Dean.
Recessional: Following the Alma Mater, the President will lead the Faculty and students from the University Events Center/Strahan Arena floor through the concourse (hallway) to Sewell Park. Students should plan ahead to meet family and friends at a designated area outside of the University Events Center/Strahan Arena near Sewell Park.
A commencement program will be available to each candidate when they are seated on the arena floor. Candidates are asked not to pick up additional programs prior to the processional.
Commencement programs are available to guests at the entrances to each seating area.
A PDF of the commencement program will be available at http://www.txstate.edu/commencement/candidate-information/program.html.
Special services are available to accommodate the needs of visitors and candidates with disabilities at all Texas State Commencement ceremonies. Accommodations include: accessible parking, shuttle services, accessible seating and sign language interpreting services. http://www.txstate.edu/commencement/guest-information/parking-seating.html
If you have a guest that requires accommodations due to a disability visit the Office of Disability Services (ODS) web site at http://www.ods.txstate.edu/campus-resources/commencement-accommodations.html or call the ODS at 512-245-3451.
Candidates with disabilities are asked to also contact their Academic Advising Center at www.advising.txstate.edu (undergraduates) or the Graduate College at www.gradcollege.txstate.edu/Current_Students/Graduation.html (graduate students) at least 72 hours prior to commencement.
Graduates will receive their diplomas by mail after commencement.
For questions about your diploma and mailing address, please contact the Office of the University Registrar.
Share and rate your commencement experience by participating in the Student Commencement Survey which will be emailed to you after commencement.
Thank you!
For additional information, please visit the Frequently Asked Questions page.


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Our cover girl's seduced the fashion world and A-List men. Up next? Hollywood
Behind the Cover: Let's Get Physical
TV's most bodacious heroine has seduced the fashion world at just 24, and now she's about to make the leap beyond 'Gossip Girl' into a big-screen careerMore
On the men in her life: "I've had four boyfriends in my whole life. I've never been with anyone that's not a boyfriend. If I spend time with a man, it's because there's somebody that I know well who has been a friend for a while."
Blake Lively wears a stretch dress from Victoria Beckham; gold hoop bracelet with diamonds from Elsa Peretti, Tiffany & Co.; and white gold and diamond earrings, emerald-and-diamond ring, sapphire-and-diamond ring, all from Lorraine Schwartz.
On not having a stylist: "When I'm going to an event, I'll send Christian (Louboutin) a picture of my outfit and say, `What shoes do you think I should wear with this?'"
Net shirt, $180, linen tank top, $235, both, Isabel Marant, at Isabel Marant, NYC.
Super Bowl's Super Fans


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Lian Li Launches the PC-A51 ATX Mid-Tower Reverse Air-Flow Chassisby Ian Cutress on 2/14/2014 5:14 PM EST
- Posted in
- Cases/Cooling/PSUs
- mid-tower
- Lian Li
20 Comments
Back to Article
johnhopfensperger - Friday, February 14, 2014 - linkJust turn the 2 fans around and you've got yourself a perfectly good case. Reply
piroroadkill - Friday, February 14, 2014 - linkYup, that's what I thought too. Reply
CrimsonFury - Saturday, February 15, 2014 - linkExcept it has worse temps that way around. Your intake air is hitting the HDDs first and being impeded by the drives & cages resulting in less cool air on the CPU. Also the front intake will be fighting with the PSU exaust.
Lian-Li have made cases with this layout before and it has been proven to be effective. People have tried reversing the fans and had worse temps. The actual impact of GPU exhaust going into CPU intake is negligible on temps (1-2 degrees at most). Reply
SirKnobsworth - Saturday, February 15, 2014 - linkDid you read the article? The front is going to be an outlet while cool air is sucked in through the back. Reply
Wardrop - Saturday, February 15, 2014 - linkDid you read his comment? He's talking about the result of *reversing* the fans. Reply
SirKnobsworth - Sunday, February 16, 2014 - linkMy mistake. I read the comment but not the context. Reply
JlHADJOE - Saturday, February 15, 2014 - linkI'm thinking top, rear and front intake, bottom exit. Reply
kwrzesien - Monday, February 17, 2014 - linkThen you would have a Silverstone FT-01. Reply
csroc - Friday, February 14, 2014 - linkThis reminds me of my PC-V1100B+ II (I think that was the mouthful of a name)... weird airflow designs. The 1100 had a rear intake and a side exhaust. The rear, also being where the GPU and PSU exhausted, seemed like a silly place for an intake. I reversed it and turned it in to side intake and rear exhaust and enjoyed it that way for years. Reply
GokieKS - Friday, February 14, 2014 - linkI've been interested in this case ever since they put it up on their blog and asked people for feedback. A mATX case that supports 240mm radiators seems perfect for a compact single GPU system using the Swiftech H220/Cooler Master Glacer 240L CLCs that can be expanded to include the GPU. Not so sure about the reverse airflow thing, but like other have said, that's something that can easily be switched by the user. Reply
GokieKS - Friday, February 14, 2014 - link*Designed for mATX, rather. This case will fit an ATX board, but the size is really much more suited for a mATX build. Reply
CrimsonFury - Saturday, February 15, 2014 - linkLOL. 44L is MASSIVE for mATX. Putting a smaller board inside won't make it less cramped, because the expansion slot area isn't the part that's cluttered. This case is actually quite easy to work on compared to compact mATX cases. Reply
anonymous_user - Friday, February 14, 2014 - linkIt'll be interesting to see how well this case can handle thermal loads. Reply
The PC Apologist - Friday, February 14, 2014 - linkThe exhaust of blower-style video cards reentering the case through the rear intake is an excellent observation Ian. Did Lian Li offer any explanation or reason as to why the case is designed this way? Because if this is nothing more than a gimmick (which it would appear), then shame on Lian Li. Reply
JBVertexx - Friday, February 14, 2014 - linkAhhh, Lian-Li. I love Lian-Li cases, but they always have a fatal flaw. Usually it's ventilation. This one has two. First, ventilation. How on earth did they come up with the convoluted ventilation flow. At first glance, you might think it's easy enough to reverse it. Problem is, you'll be sucking in PSU exhaust right into the front intake, although that's probably better than sucking in hot GPU blower exaust into the rear.
This case would actually work better with a non-blower GPU. I would setup a negative pressure flow with cool are coming in the back and bottom (there is a fitting for a 120 or 140mm fan in the bottom under the GPU) and blowing out the top and front.
But that now brings me to the 2nd fatal flaw. A 2nd GPU would be limited to 240mm (9.44in) in length due to the PSU, and that is not even accounting for cable or modular plug-in space.
To make that work, Lian-Li would have had to pull Silverstone-like acrobatics with it's component arrangement. I think moving the PSU to the top front would be an innovation that would work well with airflow as well as optimizing expansion room.
Overall, it's a heartache, because this case is beautifully designed, and I would buy it in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, the flaws make it so it just won't work. Damn. Reply
flemeister - Saturday, February 15, 2014 - linkI think they got it right with the PC-A05N (reverse/inverted ATX layout), where the PSU is in line with the CPU part of the motherboard, and the graphics cards are only limited by the 5.25" bays. If they had kept the same inverted ATX design with this PC-A51, then graphics card clearance would be limited only by the 3.5" drive trays. =)
Anandtech reviewed the PC-A05FN, which has a normal motherboard orientation. Here's a review and interior shots of the PC-A05N: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/LianLi/PC-A05N/... Reply
Gsa700 - Saturday, February 15, 2014 - linkYou guys are forgetting the dual fans at the top. You can set up an AIO 2x240 at the top as intake, and the front and rear fans as exhaust, or whatever..... Reply
iTzSnypah - Saturday, February 15, 2014 - linkTake the feet off the bottom, put them on the front. Reverse the fans then put the case on its face an viola, everything solved; except you can't add a second GPU. Reply
Charles6616Anand - Monday, February 17, 2014 - linkair comes in through the rear 120mm fan, passes through the CPU cooler (make sure it is mounted the right way, this should also give the bigger temperature delta between hot/cold), I can see this being true for the processor, Would really like to see an study for the reverse air flow and its effect on the graphics card! Low power processors have no where near the cooling needs of the Graphics cards! Reply
lgeorg - Tuesday, March 18, 2014 - linkHow about reversing the front fan as intake, put 140mm fans in the bottom and top and leave the rear fan as intake. That way the case draws cold air in from the rear(to cpu), the front(to hdd+gpu), and bottom(to gpu) and exhaust it from the top.
Or you could leave the front fan as exhaust if the bottom fan provides enough cooling to the gpu Reply


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Jury finds Va. Tech negligent in '07 shootings
Jury in wrongful death trial: Virginia Tech negligent for delayed response to '07 shootings
By The Associated Press!-- AddToAny BEGIN -->
recommend this articlePage: 1
Related Keywords:Virginia Tech Lawsuit, Violent crime, Legal proceedings, Massacres, Crime, General news, Law and order, Violence, Social issues, Social affairs, Education issues, Education, War and unrest
Source:Copyright 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.. All Rights Reserved


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Note: This item is more than 11 years old. Please take the publication date into consideration for any date references.
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News Release
Media Contact: TPWD News, email@example.com, 512-389-8030
June 5, 2006
LWF Commission Modifies Recreational Spotted Seatrout Regulations in Southwest Louisiana
The Louisiana Wildlife and Fisheries Commission ratified a rule modifying recreational harvest regulations for spotted seatrout in a designated area of southwestern Louisiana at its June 1, 2006 meeting. Effective June 20, 2006, the creel limit in the designated area is reduced from 25 fish to 15 fish per person. The area affected by the rule is the same area that has a limit of no more than two fish exceeding twenty-five inches total length as part of the daily bag and possession limit.
The final rule reads as follows: Within those areas of the state, including coastal territorial waters, south of Interstate 10 from its junction at the Texas Louisiana boundary eastward to its junction with Louisiana Highway 171, south to Highway 14, and then south to Holmwood, and then south on Highway 27 through Gibbstown south to Louisiana Highway 82 at Creole and south on Highway 82 to Oak Grove, and then due south to the western shore of the Mermentau River, following this shoreline south to the junction with the Gulf of Mexico, and then due south to the limit of the state territorial sea, under the authority of the provisions of R.S. 56:325.1(A), the daily take and possession limit shall be 15 fish, regardless of where taken, with no more than two spotted seatrout exceeding 25 inches total length. Those spotted seatrout exceeding 25 inches in length shall be considered as part of the daily recreational take and possession limit.
The final rule will become effective on June 20, 2006. All other applicable rules regarding the harvest of spotted seatrout established by the commission shall be in effect, including the existing size restriction that requires all spotted seatrout retained recreationally to be at least 12 inches total length.
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