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Gearing up for HDMI on the Desktopby Kristopher Kubicki on 1/17/2005 12:05 AM EST
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kamleshrao - Friday, May 29, 2009 - linkHi,
Your article (http://www.anandtech.com/multimedia/showdoc.aspx?i...">http://www.anandtech.com/multimedia/showdoc.aspx?i... was written few years back. Considering the fast growing technology, can you please provide a New Article on current HDMI support on Desktop PC's?
Digital Prophet - Monday, January 24, 2005 - linkFirst of all to those that can't see the advantages of putting audio and video on one cable here it is.
If its all in one it has to be sent to an A/V receiver that decodes the audio plays it on your speakers and forwards the video to your display.
Hdmi however is a big joke since firewire can carry a lot more audio and has been around for a while, if the video was sent compressed firewire would also be good for that.
DVI Dual link has a bandwith of 9.9 gbps , hdmi is a step backwards for video and a step backwards for audio since firewire carries an order of magnitude more channels.
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1154746... Reply
Bugblatter - Saturday, January 22, 2005 - linkThose guys want us to buy the CD/DVD AND the DRM-protected download. They can go stuff themselves.
If I buy a CD I WILL be ble to play it on my PDA. Likewise if I buy a DVD, I WILL rip it to DivX and play it on my PDA.
They have no moral right to try to stop me. They may have the legal right, but we can always get around that.
When they start building this crap into the hardware it's up to all of us to make sure that people know about it and don't buy it. If everyone buys the no-name brand that doesn't have the protection then the big players will soon come round. Reply
bersl2 - Saturday, January 22, 2005 - link#50: That's not the point. Jon Johansen should have never been arrested. Nobody should have to go through what he did.
And no, most copy protection is not broken purely for the satisfaction of it. Protection is broken both because someone wants to distribute it, and for interoperability purposes (it's my licensed copy; I'll do with it what I ought to be entitled to do).
Go look up the term "fair use." Now, you go think about what chilling effects DRM will have on it. Reply
mosquiton - Friday, January 21, 2005 - linkI don't want an integrated sound processor on my video card. I want an standard for internal passthrough. Standardizing on internal Optical or Coax links should suffice. a short, 3 inch cable should be all that is necessary. No, I just don't want it. Also, what will you do with onboard audio?
Nope, I want an internal port on the video card. Fine,the video card will have to pass the signal on, but I don't want it to make the signal itself. Reply
Zar0n - Thursday, January 20, 2005 - linkMore copy protection crap!
Don't be fool all they what is control your data.
I what to move my data freely to all my devices with no interference from more DRM
I use Analog connection, and I'm not going to change anytime soon, it is still the best with CRT monitors.
But I guess u can connect HDMI up your….
PrinceGaz - Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - link#49- cracking encryption won't be illegal everywhere. Besides, unless they are intending to profit from the crack by selling software which uses it, they don't need to tell the MPAA, RIAA, and other evil entities who it was that broke the protection. Remaining very low profile if there is a risk of legal action makes sense.
Most crackers break protection purely for the challenge and satisfaction of doing so, I'm sure whoever breakes HDCP will be intelligent enough to decide if it's worth taking the risk of releasing it like how the guy who broke CSS did. Reply
bersl2 - Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - link#46: Correct.
However, what happens if/when cracking said encryption becomes criminal?---and don't say it can't happen, because you (should) know very well what the lobbyists have already been able to accomplish... Reply
bhtooefr - Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - linkI will never use HDMI, even when all of the VGA, S-Video, and DVI connections are outlawed.
I like the connector of HDMI, but I don't like the DRM. Anyone want to bet that there'll soon be a proprietary Slim-DVI connector? Reply
ShadowVlican - Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - linkThanks for clearing it up KristopherKubicki... i feel better now! except for the DRM stuff... heh Reply
PrinceGaz - Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - linkCombining audio and video onto one output is a non-issue really, even though it offers no benefit to most PC users and if anything is a slight inconvenience. If HDMI video-cards don't have their own audio-hardware, as someone said they'll just include suitable audio-in headers on the card so you can connect your soundcard directly to it.
As for the output of the card, the obvious answer is a splitter-cable so you can connect it to both a monitor and amplifier/receiver. Here in Europe we've been using SCART cables for A/V connections for years and you just get the right cable to suit whatever inputs the device or devices on the other-end require. Problem solved.
As for HDCP and other forms of DRM, yes it sucks. And yes it will arrive and be adopted despite the fact it probably reduces signal-quality (such as the unnecessary D/A then A/D conversion someone mentioned). Many protection methods impact the quality of the material so that is nothing new. However just as surely as HDCP will be adopted, when there is sufficient incentive to do so, it will be cracked. It doesn't matter how complex the protection is, nothing is uncrackable and HDCP is likely to be a prime target. It may take a while, it might require inside help from sympathetic people who work with HDCP (there are always some who don't agree with what they are working on who will anonymously spill the beans), but sooner or later HDCP will be cracked and you'll be able to do what you want with your movies on HD discs. Reply
Alphafox78 - Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - linkWho cares how many cables are behind your TV, its not like everyone can see them. 1 cable or 4, who cares. im sure these new devices will have some older ports on them for component or svideo input or many people wont be able to use them. Reply
gonzo2k - Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - linkI would want HDMI to go from the cable/sat box to CAPTURE HDTV video/sound on a HTPC. I would have no need for unified A/V transfer from HTPC to monitor/TV since the sound would be handled by a seperate audio receiver. An A/V receiver to handle switching between multiple HDMI connections would be nice... but that seems a long way off. Reply
crazyeddie - Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - linkIs it really going to be necessary to combine audio and video onto a single card for the sake of HDMI? I would imagine that a simple coaxial digital feature connector from sound card to video card could solve the problem easily enough. The video adapter would simply have to grab the digital out from the sound card and patch it in with the video signal to the HDMI out.
Of course getting the picture and sound to sync may or may not be a challenge, but that is another issue entirely... Reply
KristopherKubicki - Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - linkendrebjorsvik: thanks for the catch - they should both read gigaBITS.
Kristopher Reply
endrebjorsvik - Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - linkIn the 2nd paragraph on page 1 you have written that the cable kan handle 5 Gigabit per second (Gbps), while you say it is okay to tranfer 1080p video and 8 channel audio who requiers 4 GigaByte per second (GBps).
4 GigaByte will be approximately 32 gigabit, but the cable only takes 5. How do you figure that out? Reply
arfan - Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - linkAnand, where is your newest article about Nvidia Ultra vs SLI ??? why suddently missing ??? What happen ???? Reply
Fluff - Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - linkIn a perfect world we would all be using HD-SDI and AES/EBU.
Remember HDMI can support up to 12bit .
DVI is upto 8bit.
bersl2 - Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - link#30: One of the reasons why I voice my displeasure about DRM in places like here is because there aren't enough people aware that such a thing is taking place. Letters and emails are great and all, but unless people start *talking about it*, it's not going to get through politicians' thick skulls that we disapprove of their listening to the lobbying of the entertainment industries.
I stick behind my earlier assertion that to allow DRM is to relinquish control of one's viewpoint on the world. It will lead to the Internet becoming like TV is, controlled by an oligarchy of "content providers," backed by law.
And just out of spite, I'm putting this post in the public domain. :P Reply
quasarsky - Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - linkhttp://www.anandtech.com/news/shownews.aspx?i=2290...
This neat article I saw was about using GPU's to crunch audio. Worth a look as relates to HDMI :)
9 - Posted on Sep 6, 2004 at 10:02 PM by Saist Reply
when I first read the title here on Anand, I thought the article was going to be about how Creative Labs was spending more time creating and patenting IP instead of developing newer sound systems ( e.g. Carmark's Reverse).
Another example is this story over at Xbit : http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/mmedia/display/200409...
some business has figured out how to get GPU's to crunch out high quality audio. Now, I don't know about you, but right now a Radeon 9600 XT or a Geforce FX 5700 is cheaper than a top of the line Audigy2. To think that I could use that in place of an audigy2 and get superior sound quality (and yes... I am aware of the physical issue of how to pipe that sound out of a graphics card, but at least the capability is there)
I agree... Tweaktown really dropped the ball. There's a whole other place they could have gone to but didn't
Tujan - Monday, January 17, 2005 - linkThe FCC and these proprieties mistake 1. The inaliable nature that 'broadcast in this way is 'illegal search and seizure...and 2.Representatives of 'media, are not representative of 'copyright law, or the authors of wich copyright law represents.
A third can be added in wich would only 'mention of fact,but would actually deal with copyright itself. In that 'copyright is something relational to 'authors. It is not a business contract of a questionable 'first sale contract wich these broadcasts do their illegal deed through our premises,without our person to define them being so. Without our person to delegate the relationship of our equipment,or the functionality of person in wich this type of 'contract clause,deals usury within its blackmail of device,and copyright.
The asset of copyright in second of person,is that of wich has its possession.Neither broadcast,nor FCC has this possession.And there is no specification known through copyright wich is tentative,or soon deliberated,wich is of and part of that assumed under copyright for author within its purpose.
Conducting business association through this type of law,is still illegall search and seizure.While this is a physical connection in a specification true.The relationship of author/authors within copyright is the subject of the works copyright portrays solely for author in premise,and criteria. The subject of wich a criteria in media and device,the FCC should not be making itself party to without realizing its effects have resolved both author,and person of use in 'fair-use,of their own relationship to copyrighted materials conductive through them.In either asset (1),or asset(2).Author/person of use respecively.
))))))))))))))))) All comments and materials submitted to the Forums shall be considered non-confidential and the property of Anandtech, unless otherwise agreed in advance in writing by Anandtech. These Forums use moderators and administrators to monitor the content and appearance of messages posted in our Forums. However, considering the realtime nature of this bulletin board, it is impossible for us to monitor or review every message. Therefore, you agree that neither these Forums, nor any person or entity associated with them, will be held responsible for the contents, accuracy, completeness or validity of any information posted in them.< This statement as transposed is inproper english. If the FCC wishes to conduct the same procession w/o the person of its destinguishment in its 'effect. Then a relationship will have to be gained in its statement of effect. Since there is 'no effect,if there is no 'effect in its equivalency.
Statements such as this are a 'null detail,of less importance here at a simple signing of a clause to enter a forum. However,when it comes to a person,this statement is an illegal one.When there is functional detail in an effect denied through its reception.
Whatever Anantech does in its relationship to anantech for example remains its own person to do so. But without participation,a statement cannot be made so that an agreement lacks its person.Therefore cannot be an agreement.
But Im discharging anantech of any responsibility for this agreement.Since certainly without my statement it would not matter anyway.
Jan 16 2005
KristopherKubicki - Monday, January 17, 2005 - linkShadowVlican: The cable design is mostly intended for inputs sources to a receiver - which just so happens to also have the ability to go to any other devices like a TV, DVD player, Tivo, whatever. It's just a newer idea to replace all of the cables in the back - RCA, S-Video, DVI, component - in one swoop.
But then again the DRM things are a different animal on their own. I don't personally enjoy the idea of more DRM, but with so much of the industry behind the technology I have a hard time thinking it wont become universally accepted.
Kristopher Reply
ShadowVlican - Monday, January 17, 2005 - linkoh yea. i agree with everyone that's saying Display devices (CRT, LCD, Plasma, etc) will never be combined with your sound setup... combining those 2 technologies are just plain stupid...
how will we get surround sonud if the speakers are stuck to the damn TV.. what's the point of this stoopid new cable other than taking our rights away :@ Reply
ShadowVlican - Monday, January 17, 2005 - linkwhat's wrong with dvi and separate audio connectors... they just want to make more money selling new useless products that actually DON'T benefit us now... i wonder what will happen to all those people who invested in HDTVs... Reply
shabby - Monday, January 17, 2005 - link#31 i'll bet the mpaa/riaa had something to do with that. Reply
ksnider - Monday, January 17, 2005 - linkI have a new LCD TV with HDMI input and HDCP support.
It also comes with schematics (on CD).
I studied the schematics and was astonished by what I found: the HDMI digital input is terminated at a special purpose chip that deserializes and deframes the data, decrypts the HDCP, and converts the R, G and B to ANALOG!
So on the output of this chip there is a normal RGB (plus sync) signal. This is fed to the switching matrix (where it is combined with all other inputs the TV supports) and then this analog RGB signal is again digitized and fed to the scaler that scales it up or down to drive the LCD panel.
Of course, they do this because the whole point of HDMI is to protect the *signal*, not the picture quality. If the HDMI chip sent a digital signal to the LCD, it wouldn't serve it's purpose. In order to protect the digital signal, it *has* to output analog.
This means, you're actually going to end up with a WORSE picture! Reply
rika13 - Monday, January 17, 2005 - linkdont bitch about it here, bitch about it to your elected officials, dumping about 50,000 letters (yes letters, as in dead trees) on your senator's desk will get his attention
problem isnt they are taking rights away, its that its being done steathily, and circuit shitty, best lie, and others arent refusing to sell that crap Reply
KristopherKubicki - Monday, January 17, 2005 - linkNoli: I believe all HDMI inputs are HDCP compliant.
Kristopher Reply
ProviaFan - Monday, January 17, 2005 - linkOnce the CBDTPA passes, you can kiss your "rights" goodbye, because even if you try to exercise them, the RIAA will call the FBI on your rear, and they'll be carting you off to federal pound-me-in-the-@#$ prison for 768 years about 5 minutes after you download illegal free/open source software to make a backup of your new notCD so you can play it in your car.
I'm sorry, but I just don't submit to this "you all must give up your rights to control your own equipment because a few people abuse the capabilities of said equipment." Bite me, RIAA! :disgust; Reply
bersl2 - Monday, January 17, 2005 - link#26: You mean "former current laws." Reply
Klober - Monday, January 17, 2005 - linkI agree with archcommus87, even if they integrate audio and video onto a single card in the PC, my monitor and 5.1 speakers are still two separate pieces of equipment. So where is the cable supposed to plug in - the monitor or my sub? If it plugs into the monitor, then I still need the current cable I have running from my sound card to my sub. If it plugs into my sub, then I still need the cable running from my video card to my monitor. The integration makes sense for home theatre systems where everything goes to the receiver, but it sounds like a downright stupid idea for PCs. Either way though, I really can't stand the "secure" crap they're trying to push on us in order to take away our law given rights. They force us to crack the schemes to use our systems the way we should be able to according to the laws, and then they prosecute us for it. Just doesn't seem right to me. It's my equipment, I paid good money for it, and I'll use it how I like within the current laws. Reply
Googer - Monday, January 17, 2005 - linkI am an analogue fan, I love my CRT! Does HDMI support analogue? Reply
archcommus87 - Monday, January 17, 2005 - linkmcveigh: I'm talking about for a PC setup. I also don't understand the purpose of combining video and audio into one cable. No matter what future technologies ever come out, the sound system and monitor will ALWAYS be separate! Reply
epiv - Monday, January 17, 2005 - linkI do not get the idea of combining audio and video signal into the same interface. Currently audio and video come from different component in a pc and is sent to different device too. Are they going to combine the Monitor and speaker into one package too? Reply
Brian23 - Monday, January 17, 2005 - linkThis is all crap. I don't even own a TV and I don't plan on getting one. The only shows I watch are the ones I play on DVD and the ones I download on the internet. Reply
stanmuffin - Monday, January 17, 2005 - linkBleh. The trend toward manufacturing devices that disobey their owners continues. It won't be long before we're not allowed to change the channel without watching 10 minutes of commercials first. Reply
ceefka - Monday, January 17, 2005 - link#15 Maybe they think you'll use your THX or AC3 capable receiver for the sound and the TV as a display. You're not listening to your TV when you play a DVD, do you?
Intergrating Dolby Surround 5.1, 6.1, 7.1, DTS and or THX in your PCI-E graphicscard: Nice idea. With the size of the HDMI-plug you'd even have room for the optical/coax digital out, 2nd display and ViVo. It could also save us from any crappy on board solutions. Reply
Koing - Monday, January 17, 2005 - link#12 KHysiek
DVI suports 1920x1200. A Dual Link (DL) one will go up to the 30" 4MP display.
The HDMI will go to a 'reciever' first then from the receiver to whatever you want. One run to the tv and speaker cable from the reciever.
If you don't have a receiver you just go straight to the tv. BUT this crews the people who's receiver does not have HDMI :P
Koing Reply
Noli - Monday, January 17, 2005 - linkTotally agree #16
Many people who have just or are just about to buy expensive plasma/lcd tvs will be truly p*ssed off when they find out that their swanky dvi/hdmi connection is not HDCP compliant and so can't watch the content they've paid for! (only some of the latest models are HDCP compliant).
Not sure yet if the panasonic AE700 projector I bought (has hdmi) a couple of months ago is HDCP compliant but it will be annoying if it isn't. (Anyone know?)
Here in the UK it is not so bad - the BBC said that they won't be broadcasting in HDTV modes (a strong candidate for hdcp protection I think) until 2010, though some sports events in 2005/6 maybe HDTV resolution and some dramas in 2007/8. By then, plasma/lcd tvs should be even cheaper but i still don't see how you can force a nation *and* manufacturers to force the changeover.
All this will do is force the knowledgeable and the keen to hack HDCP and everyone else will suffer... Reply
R3MF - Monday, January 17, 2005 - linkoh well, their loss.
we will crack it, just like we always have when vendor lock-in ensues. Reply
otemanu - Monday, January 17, 2005 - linkBy adopting HDCP we make it possible for the media producers to enable more restrictions than exist on DVD and digital broadcasts today. HDCP means to abandon most of the digital displays sold up to now. Virtually none of the computer screens and many older plasma-screens that support DVI but not HDCP/HDMI will not be allowed to show future BlueRay/HD-DVD movies or HDTV broadcasts. This will result in the same type of cracking that exists for DVD/Region/macromedia - not to copy - just to be able to buy and watch a movie on existing hardware/software. Were will it end? Should only certified "locked" media pc be allowed to display movies? Only certified companies be able to produce players. They are making the DVD/mp3 mistake again. Reply
shabby - Monday, January 17, 2005 - linkWhats the point of carrying audio to the tv when its the reciever that needs it?
But i wouldnt mind a geforce 6800 with soundstorm, that would be sweet. Reply
Lonyo - Monday, January 17, 2005 - linkI would guess that graphics card manufacturers, chipset mfs and soundcard mfrs could work together using PCIe to manage a way to direct the sound card output through the graphics card.
Since you can hook up two graphics cards, I would guess you could route sound through a graphics card.
Still, it does seem a little unecessary to have this at all.
To me, it seems to assume a total lack of discrete speaker systems? Reply
R3MF - Monday, January 17, 2005 - linkagreed with 10 also.
is there no way to strip out the content protection rubbish from what is a good connector? Reply
KHysiek - Monday, January 17, 2005 - linkI thought this interface was supposed to replace DVI, mainly cause DVI is too slow for high refresh/ high resolution displays. AFAIK DVI max is about 1600x1200/60Hz. Reply
elecrzy - Monday, January 17, 2005 - linkagrees with 10. Reply
Woodchuck2000 - Monday, January 17, 2005 - linkI'm sure there were rumours at one point that Soundstorm 2 might end up integrated into one of nVidia's graphics cards...
That would make a lot of sense now, given this article! Reply
mcveigh - Monday, January 17, 2005 - linkStefan as I see it right now it only affects the HTPC users. I would have it go out to my receiver which would then send one signal to my speakers and the hdmi video only to my TV.
unless the come up with a hdmi monitor that outputs to speakers/receiver. Reply
bersl2 - Monday, January 17, 2005 - links/manage you/manage how you/ Reply
bersl2 - Monday, January 17, 2005 - linkUh, this "protection" crap is making me sick.
And so is this vision of the future where I have even less control over my machines and the data in my possession.
Media matter more than ever in culture, and you are going to hand over control to entities whose sole responsibility is to make money, in effect, giving up control of your culture? You are going to let someone who doesn't care what you believe in manage you make sense of the world?
Think. Please. Think about what is going on. You choose what you want, but consider what it is you are slated to lose and how important that is to you. Reply
Stefan - Monday, January 17, 2005 - linkI'm feeling a little retarded at the moment...
If video and audio are integrated on one card, and there is a single output... where does the output go? If it goes to the display, where is my receiver supposed to get a signal from? Reply
mcveigh - Monday, January 17, 2005 - linkarchcommus87: why would you have it going to your sub? if anything you'd have it going to your receiver then to you pseakers and TV Reply
Burbot - Monday, January 17, 2005 - linkHey you, fat media bastards! Good luck getting a single cent out of me if you want to limit me in ways I can use my machine. MP3 versions of albums are available weeks before release date, and to fix this problem, you disallow personal copying (explicitely allowed and taxed in our little Canadian commie heaven)? Reply
knitecrow - Monday, January 17, 2005 - linkI sure hope next gen consoles use HDMI, as i've seen it on newer HDTV's
archcommus87 - Monday, January 17, 2005 - linkSo if video cards starting having onboard audio capabilities, would there be TWO HDMI connectors on the the back of the card? One to go to the monitor and one to go to your sub?
I like the sound of it. A single cable to carry my audio instead of three, and a smaller, screwless connector for video. Reply
mcveigh - Monday, January 17, 2005 - linkSo were any tier 1 manufacturers talking about it at CES? like a possible time frame? Reply


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I don't know if you saw this story about Ron Low, who is an absolutely wonderful person, a guy you all would personally love, despite his troubles coaching a dreadful Rangers team once upon a time.
Anyway, he was mugged in Calgary and in pretty bad shape.
Our best wishes are with him, and I hope the pieces of carcillo who did this are caught and spend a good long time inside.
We got a little sidetracked last night, so here are the post-game notes.
From the Rangers:
March 25, 2010 – New York Rangers 4, New Jersey Devils 3 SO (Game #74, Road #35)
• The Blueshirts defeated the New Jersey Devils, 4-3, in the shootout tonight at the Prudential Center, to close out their 11th of 13 back-to-back sets on the season.
• New York improved to 33-32-9 (75 pts.) overall, including a 17-15-3 (37 pts.) mark in 35 road games this season. The Rangers finished their season series vs. the Devils with a record of 3-2-1, and are now 13-5-2 overall against the Devils with a 6-3-1 mark at New Jersey since the start of the 2007-08 season.
• The Blueshirts now own a record of 7-2-2 in the second game of back-to-back sets this season, including a 4-1-1 mark when the second game is on the road.
• The Rangers notched one power play goal in three chances tonight, and have now registered 10 goals in 46 attempts over the last 11 games (21.7%). The Blueshirts penalty kill held the Devils scoreless in three attempts in tonight's contest, and are now nine-for-nine on the penalty kill in the last three games (100.0%).
• Henrik Lundqvist made 35 saves through regulation and overtime, and turned aside all three shots faced in the shootout, to record his 30th win of the season and improve to 30-26-8 overall with a 15-10-2 mark on the road. Lundqvist is the only goalie in NHL history to post 30 or more wins in each of his first five seasons, and became the first Rangers goaltender in franchise history to record five consecutive 30-win seasons. Lundqvist has now matched-up against Martin Brodeur in 26 career regular season contests, posting a record of 17-4-5 with a 1.75 goals against average, a .938 save percentage and four shutouts over the span.
• After trailing 1-0 following the first period, Brandon Dubinsky notched the Rangers first goal of the game with a power play tally at 7:32 of the middle frame, and finished the contest with a career-high eight shots in a season-high 26:48 of icetime. The Rangers have now posted a record of 10-1-3 in games when he tallies a goal.
• Rangers Captain Chris Drury notched the game-tying goal with 17 seconds remaining in regulation to send the game into overtime, and finished with three blocked shots in 23:27 of icetime. Drury has now tallied six points (one goal and five assists) in the last seven games. The Rangers improved to 9-2-1 in games when he records a goal.
• Michael Del Zotto recorded two assists, including one on Dubinsky's power play goal and one on Drury's game-tying goal with 17 seconds remaining in regulation. The rookie defenseman has now registered five points (two goals and three assists) in the last three games.
• Erik Christensen tallied the primary assist on Drury's game-tying goal, and notched the game-deciding goal in the shootout. Christensen improved to 18-of-34 in the shootout for his career (52.9%), including eight game-deciding goals. He has now tallied 11 points (three goals and eight assists) in the last 13 games, and six points (one goal and five assists) in the last four games vs. Atlantic Division opponents.
• Rookie Artem Anisimov registered one goal and four shots in the contest, and he has now tallied a goal in back-to-back games. The Rangers are now 7-2-2 when he notches a goal, and 12-5-2 when he records a point.
• Sean Avery recorded his second power play assist in as many games, and has now registered six points (three goals and three assists) in six games since not dressing on Mar. 12 at Atlanta. The Rangers improved to 7-2-0 when he tallies a goal, and 15-6-2 when he records a point.
• Jody Shelley and Brandon Prust each collected an assist on Anisimov's third period goal. Shelley has now registered an assist in each of the last two games, and now has three assists in the last four games vs. Atlantic Division opponents. Prust has recorded three points (one goal and two assists) in three games vs. the Devils since joining the Rangers on Feb. 2.
• The Rangers return to action on Saturday, Mar. 27, when they will face-off against the Toronto Maple Leafs at the Air Canada Centre (7:00 p.m.), in an Original Six matchup. The game will be televised live on MSG Network and can be heard on 1050 ESPN Radio.

subset: commoncrawl


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LOS ANGELES — Melissa's/World Variety Produce has launched its third cookbook aimed at encouraging consumers to eat more fruits and vegetables.
"Melissa's 50 Best Plants on the Planet: The Most Nutrient-Dense Fruits and Vegetables, in 150 Delicious Recipes," was introduced at a holiday/launch party for food bloggers and media at the company's headquarters Dec. 14.
The book was written by Cathy Thomas and the produce experts and chefs at Melissa's. Thomas has logged more than 20 years as food editor of the Orange County (Calif.) Register.
"It's not necessarily a diet book," Thomas said, "it's a diet for feeling good."
The work is an alphabetized encyclopedia with recipes and information about the 50 most nutrient-dense fruits and vegetables along with tips on how to buy, store and use them.
Dishes made from some of the recipes, such as grilled tomato salsa, grilled mozzarella-stuffed chard and couscous with tangerines, were served at the kickoff event.
Rankings for the fruits and vegetables were based on a 100-point scale. Asparagus came out on top of the vegetable category with a score of 94, and blackberries were the most nutrient-dense fruit, with a score of 74, said Robert Schueller, Melissa's director of public relations.
"We feel America doesn't know enough about produce," Schueller said, "so we decided to do this third book."
He said he hopes the book will encourage consumers to work more fruits and vegetables into their diets.
Published by Chronicle Publishing, the book now is available exclusively in a hardbound cover from Melissa's for $35. A $30 softbound edition will be distributed nationally through all major U.S. booksellers by April. It also is available in the produce departments of Carson, Calif.-based Bristol Farms supermarkets.
The company's other books are "Melissa's Everyday Cooking with Organic produce" and "Melissa's Great Book of Produce."


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Where We Work
The Nature Conservancy works to protect the lands and waters on which all life depends in 72 countries around the world.
We work with local governments, communities, and partner organizations in sharing our science-based and collaborative methods to ensure each region's needs—for people and for nature—are best met.
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From the grasslands of Northern Australia to the biodiversity-rich Gondwana Link, the Conservancy is working with partners—and combining traditional knowledge with cutting-edge science—to protect the Land Down Under's most endangered natural resources.
Asia and the Pacific Islands
From supporting local communities who are working to conserve their natural resources in Micronesia, to researching with partners how climate change is affecting a sacred glacier in China, we are working to protect the myriad of species and habitats—and the communities that depend on them—in this diverse region.
Learn how The Nature Conservancy is working with local governments, partners and communities to create a network of marine parks across the Caribbean—nearly tripling the current amount of protected ecosystems in this region—as well as how our conservation science helped first responders into Haiti after the devastating Earthquake in early 2010.
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The Nature Conservancy is working in six countries in Central America to preserve an incredible diversity of plants, animals and habitats for future generations – by using innovative and collaborative methods.
North America
From Canada to Mexico, California to Maine, The Nature Conservancy has a history of success in protecting nature to preserve life for future generations. We work to protect livelihoods and natural treasures in a place that represents almost 15 percent of the Earth's total land area.
South America
Learn how the The Nature Conservancy is working to preserve some of the world's most endangered forests and grasslands habitat—from the Atlantic Forest to the Cerrado—by protecting them from threats like invasive species, habitat loss and climate change.
The Nature Conservancy is developing partnerships with governments and organizations based in Europe and is focusing on sustainable development, climate change and strengthening public policy to catalyze conservation.


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We get lots of job offers in our collective inbox. Obviously we can't take advantage of all of them, and most contain an invitation to pass the opportunity around, so that's what this page is for. Feel free to do the same. If you or somebody you know manage to land one of these, tell us about it!
Sorry, this isn't Monster.com! If you want to keep an eye on new opportunities, subscribe to the appropriate RSS feed. If you're looking for something in particular within the archive, type it into the site's search box and let Google work its magic.
This is a volunteer-run site! If you'd like to post your jobs here, you're going to have to help out. Register for an account on the site, send us your user name, and we'll set you up so you can post them yourself. Think we need a new category? Let us know, and we'll add it.
Current Articles
Good day,
I'm with BCI, and I was curious if you or someone from your professional network might be interested in one of these opportunities:
Job Order:
Minneapolis, MN (Relocation Assistance Available)
Minneapolis-based hedge fund seeking to fill two roles:
1) Programmer with quantitative skills
2) Applications developer with 3+ years of experience
Commensurate with experience for both.
Applications Developer
This is a hand on position with lots of growth potential and would involve new development and maintenance of existing code and daily process.
The individual must have experience in Visual Basic, VBA for Access, Python, SQL Server, .NET and Excel. Knowledge of C/C++ is a plus. Experience in working with financial instruments is required. BS or MS in Computer Science is required.
Quantitative Programmer
Person will help develop and implement arbitrage and risk management system. This position will require initiative and energy, and will provide good growth potential.
Strong technical skills like COM programming, network sockets programming, multi-threaded programming, C++, VB, .NET and Python programming skills are required. Minimum of 2 years of quantitative research experience or experience in the derivatives area is required. Knowledge of credit derivatives is a plus. BS or MS in Computer Science is required.
If you are interested in one of these openings, please email us a copy of your resume as an MS Word attachment and indicate which position is of interest.
Thank you,
Brooke Akins
BCI - Financial Services Recruiting
(312) 460-8222 x102


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Hey there, time traveller!
This article was published 19/10/2012 (1766 days ago), so information in it may no longer be current.
Joseph Anton
By Salman Rushdie
Knopf Canada, 636 pages, $35
YOU might think that British-Indian novelist Salman Rushdie's memoir of his fatwa years and beyond would be a painful and bitter read, but it is surprisingly humorous and enjoyable.
Rushdie, now 65, begins with the ominous phone call in 1989 from a BBC journalist asking "How does it feel to know that you have just been sentenced to death by the Ayatollah Khomeini?"
The infamous fatwa was in reaction to Rushdie's controversial novel The Satanic Verses. Rushdie had clearly outraged some Muslims around the world who believed that it ridiculed the Prophet Muhammad, though how many of them had actually read the book remains in question.
Joseph Anton chronicles Rushdie's life, beginning with his childhood in Bombay before he decided at age 13 to go to boarding school in England and later Cambridge. His beloved India, however, left a lasting impact on him and later became the backdrop for his award-winning 1980 novel Midnight's Children.
But it was Rushdie's nine years in hiding after the fatwa, under the oppressive eyes of a round-the-clock protection team, and the outlandish life that ensued as a result, which prevents this book from becoming just another memoir.
The title itself refers to the alias that Rushdie was forced to take on, made up of the first names of two of his favourite authors: Joseph Conrad and Anton Chekhov.
Joseph Anton provides an insight into the world of a writer who was so well publicized and yet hardly known at all. Rushdie successfully conveys his sense of frustration and helplessness as he describes his years in hiding and his bid to free himself from being defined by a controversy, made worse by his demonization in the media and inaction of his government.
Rushdie also speaks candidly about his personal life, most notably his series of failed marriages to Clarissa Luard, Marianne Wiggins, Elizabeth West and Padma Lakshmi, and he does take his share of the responsibility for their deterioration.
Deftly interspersed among the self-deprecating humour and moments of scathing wit are passages that are extremely moving. He recounts his sitting at the bed side of his first wife, Luard, as she dies from cancer, and the strain put on the relationship between him and his then nine-year-old son, Zafar, as a result of the fatwa and the difficult years that followed.
With his penchant for breaking the mould, Rushdie writes his memoir in the third person, which can be jarring. The charm of reading a memoir is the sense the reader feels of becoming the author's confidante and yet some of this intimacy is lost in Rushdie's deliberate detachment.
This, along with the fact that the book is a little repetitious and could have been 100 pages shorter, are problems in an otherwise riveting read.
Above all, this memoir is an impassioned battle cry for the defence of literature in a world in which, Rushdie believes, artistic freedom is increasingly under attack, or at the very least stifled.
"There were plenty of people who didn't want the universe opened, who would, in fact, prefer it to be shut down quite a bit, and so when artists went to the frontier and pushed, they often found powerful forces pushing back. And yet they did what they had to do, even at the price of their own ease, and, sometimes, of their own lives."
At a time when the debate between freedom of expression and the sanctity of religion rages on, the publication of Joseph Anton could not be more timely.
Welsh-born Muslim Nadia Kidwai is a journalist based in Winnipeg.


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NORFOLK, Va. - The Navy said Wednesday it will conduct random blood-alcohol tests on its sailors in the United States starting next month, a sign of how concerned the service's leaders have become about the effects alcohol abuse is having on the force.
The tests are part of Navy Secretary Ray Mabus' 21st Century Sailor and Marine Initiative, an expansive program intended to improve the well-being of sailors and Marines after more than a decade at war.
The Marines announced it would carry out its own random alcohol tests last month. While alcohol has long played a part in the Navy's culture, Navy officials stressed they aren't trying to stop sailors from drinking altogether, but are concerned about their health and safety.
The Navy said it will use the blood-alcohol tests to determine whether someone is fit for duty or may need counseling. Any sailor whose blood-alcohol level is .04 or higher when reporting for duty won't be allowed to work. In all 50 states and the District of Columbia, a driver with a 0.08 percent blood-alcohol is considered drunk.
A positive test result for a sailor reporting to work - a reading of 0.02 percent or higher - won't be used to punish sailors. But the Navy said it could be used to refer him or her to a drug and alcohol program adviser.
Adm. Mark Ferguson, vice chief of naval operations, said the random tests could help spot sailors who need support before "an incident occurs due to the irresponsible use of alcohol." He also wrote in a message outlining the new details of the policy to the fleet that the tests will serve as a safety measure and raise awareness among commanding officers of a crew's "culture of alcohol use."
Alcohol is of particular concern because of the role it frequently plays in other destructive behaviors such as suicide and sexual assault. Alcohol also has played a factor in the dismissals of a number of commanding officers in recent years.
"Deterring irresponsible use of alcohol is essential to the readiness of our fleet and ensuring the health and safety of our service members and units," Adm. Bill Gortney, commander of U.S. Fleet Forces, said in a statement.
In a pilot program with 13 commands this past summer, nearly 7,500 sailors were subjected to random alcohol tests. Of those, 87 tested positive for alcohol.
"The test verified that the majority of our service members, who choose to drink alcohol, do so responsibly. It also verified that our commanding officers need a flexible program that serves to increase the Navy's awareness about the impacts of alcohol," Gortney said in a statement.
With more than 28,000 Navy servicemen and women stationed at NAS Jax, Mayport and Kings Bay, there's been some resistance to the new policy, according to retired Navy Admiral Bob Natter.
"We take them into the military, we say, 'You're now adults,' we expect them to act like adults, and then we start treating them in ways that you wouldn't expect an adult to be treated. So this is a tough, tough call," said Natter.
By May 24, the Navy expects to have hand-held alcohol detection devices available for nearly 2,000 commands.
The 21st Century Sailor and Marine Initiative was unveiled by Mabus in a rare `all-hands' call aboard a ship in Norfolk last March that was broadcast to sailors around the world. Among other things, it also focuses on preventing suicides, sexual assaults and increasing physical fitness. The Navy has also begun conducting random urine tests for synthetic drug use under the initiative.
Natter said he hopes officials will approach it with sensitivity as the Navy implements the policy.
"If they're not operating an automobile, if they're not operating machinery, if they're not operating their weapons right away, then I would say leeway is appropriate," said Natter.
Unlike the alcohol tests, those who test positive for synthetic drug use are subject to punishment.
Copyright 2013 by The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


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Orphan Bikes Prepared for Adoption
Last Modified 2:48 PM, April 21, 2010
Caleb Wendel, Michigan Tech alumnus and owner of The Bike Shop, and Kyle Bordeau, president of the Copper Country Cycling Club, work on an abandoned bike.
April 21, 2010—
Each school year, more than two dozen bicycles—and sometimes as many as 50—are abandoned on the Michigan Tech campus. Now student cycling enthusiasts, Tech's Department of Public Safety and Police Services and the owners of a local bike shop have joined forces to restore some of the orphan bikes and make them available through a local charity.
Last weekend, DPSPS Chief Dan Bennett worked with four students and the owners of The Bike Shop—who happen to be Michigan Tech alumni—to put nine of the 49 abandoned bikes in safe working order
Participating were Kyle Bordeau, president of the Copper Country Cycling Club (C-4) and a mechanical engineering-engineering mechanics undergraduate; Andy Kienitz, treasurer of C-4 and an electrical and computer engineereing undergraduate; Doug Banyai, a member of C-4 and a physics graduate student; Kate Waring, an environmental engineering undergraduate and part-time employe of The Bike Shop; and Steve Vizanko and Caleb Wendel, co-owners of The Bike Shop, both of whom graduated with business degrees from Tech. They were assisted by Nathan Bennett, age 6, Chief Bennett's son.
"This type of project, with Tech alumni and Tech students working together to benefit the community, exemplifies the level of community service that makes Tech such a special place," said Chief Bennett.
He hopes to make the unclaimed bike restoration project an annual event. Meanwhile, he encouraged students to register their bikes with DPSPS, so they can be returned to their rightful owner if they are found.
Michigan Technological University (www.mtu.edu) is a leading public research university developing new technologies and preparing students to create the future for a prosperous and sustainable world. Michigan Tech offers more than 120 undergraduate and graduate degree programs in engineering; forest resources; computing; technology; business; economics; natural, physical and environmental sciences; arts; humanities; and social sciences.


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TIM Ream admits to having mixed emotions as he dives into another season in the FA Cup.
On one hand, Wanderers have a chance of some respite from their increasingly erratic Championship season, and the opportunity to bounce back from Tuesday's defeat at Leeds United with a win in front of their own fans.
But the American defender is also acutely aware that league matters come first, and though Sunderland provide their first hurdle, talk has already begun about Millwall's visit in eight days' time.
"We know the FA Cup is important and we can forget about the league for a week," Ream said. "But there is a game coming up right after so we can't completely forget about the league if we want to move up.
"Right now, winning in the FA Cup would be nice but we have to start winning in this league to move up the table."
Ream's defensive partner for the last three games, Zat Knight, also described tomorrow's clash as "a little bit of a distraction" before qualifying his comment by agreeing that a win could be the unlikely catalyst for a long-awaited change in form.
"It's a good game," he said. "Sunderland have had a stop-start season and it will be a test.
"I think it's a bigger game for some of the lads who haven't been playing.
"It could be a nice distraction because we need to start winning. Maybe then it will go into the following week because we really need to start getting on a run if we want to get near the play-offs."
Exactly who lines up at the back is a matter of debate, with Sam Ricketts and Joe Riley both in the frame for a start against the Black Cats.
After a patchy season to date, Matt Mills' injury and David Wheater's continued absence has given Ream a chance to cement a place in the back four.
The 25-year found himself out of the reckoning after defeats against Burnley on the opening day, Hull City, Middlesbrough and then the fortuitous draw at Brighton, after which he became a victim of Dougie Freedman's rotation system.
But his most recent displays have shown evidence of an improved partnership with Knight, and one on which Ream is determined to build.
"For the most part I've been pleased with the performances, not just for myself but with the other guys coming in; for example, Darren Pratley has had two good games," he said. "It's just been a question of working hard in training.
"We all knew we would get our chance to play. It's just a matter of going out there, doing your job and doing what they ask.
"I have done fairly well apart from a few things here and there. And they can be fixed. I am happy to be playing again.
"Unfortunately, my first game (at Burnley) came on a bad day. As much as we want to focus on results, we have to go out and perform. And if you perform fairly well, you have a chance.
"We have done that for the most part and I have been happy I have been able to step in and help the team."
Like many around the Reebok, Ream has noticed a chink of light on the horizon in the form of compatriot Stuart Holden's impending return.
The midfielder is pencilled in to feature for the under-21s against Oldham on Tuesday night in a game that could yet be switched from Leyland to the Reebok Stadium.
And for a squad in need of a fillip, Holden's arrival might just be in the nick of time.
"It's nice to have him back, in and around the guys, the changing rooms and on the pitch knocking a ball around," Ream said. "He has got such a presence and a good personality.
"He brings the best out in guys. It's nice to have him back and hopefully he is out here with us in the next couple of weeks."


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From an early age I developed a real love affair with cars - from the wall poster of the Lamborghini Countach through to my treasured Scalextric and Hot Wheels sets - encouraged bizarrely by my nan who would buy me Corgi cars on a regular basis.
The impending arrival of a new "ride" in the household got me thinking about the "interesting" historical relationship my family has had with the automobile over the years.
When I was growing up, my parents had a selection of cars that frankly could only have been purchased from a troupe of travelling clowns. More surprising was the fact that my Dad was obsessively proud about his cars so quite why he possessed these things which would not be out of place in a Roadrunner cartoon was beyond me.
There was a green Hillman Hunter with a chassis so twisted that you could go around corners without turning the steering wheel. Another belter was an Austin 1800 which had to have once been a tank in the Army and took four people to open one door. This metallic Vanessa Felz once lost all its power steering fluid causing it to take on the steering capability of a skip!
Then there was an Austin Princess that looked like a cross between a door wedge and hunk of Swiss cheese (and had just as many holes). I also musn't forget the Ford Zodiac, purchased at an auction with 3 red doors, one white one and a bonnett that my dad attacked with an aerosol paint can!
However, the utter classic of the 1970's was a burnt orange Lada with a brown vinyl roof that took us on a trip to Blackpool. For those of you tender in years, the Lada was shaped like a Lego brick and built by Russians who had access to way too much vodka and no technology past 1955!
It was during a torrential rainstorm on the M6 that my Dad realised that there wasn't a single seal on the car - the giveaway being the 3" pool of water in the footwells!
My mum, who passed her test on the fifth attempt, also believed that the human body disintegrated at speeds of over 45 mph - it once took us 4 months to get to Cornwall from the Midlands and even now when she comes to visit, my Dad has to set up base camp in Oxford!
She had two cars - a coral pink & grey Ford Prefect that did 0 to 60 in.well to be honest it still hasn't reached it yet and a blue Vauxhall Viva that had three gears and couldn't be driven in anything other than bone dry conditions - my Mum never left the house from October to March!
I actually passed my test first time but it was obvious that Dad's imprint on me was stronger than I thought. Having learned in a Nissan Micra you'd think I would have chosen a similar car but NOOO! I got a Ford Sierra Sapphire - the thing was white, reminiscent of a whale shark, handled like a concrete block and was so ugly that even Brad Pitt couldn't have pulled in it.
Other highlights were an Escort with spoiler that looked like a bent toothpick, two Cavaliers, both of which were "medical rep" red and had the rear view capabilities of the eye of a needle and a Rover that bounced over roundabouts (that's a whole other story).
But even having had my new car, I know I will never match the one cool car my Dad had - an almond Rover 2000 TC that looked like it should have been on The Sweeney. Mind you he did want to put a vinyl roof on it


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Opening June 7, Much Ado About Nothing is Joss Whedon's modern adaptation of one of Shakespeare's best comedies. The tale follows two pairs of lovers, one who won't admit they are in love and the other so in love that it's all they talk about, through a series of misunderstandings that alternately break them apart and bring them together.
For more Shakespeare-inspired works, try these movies and books available at GPLD:


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Topic: Chicken with 4 legs?
If I had to do it over again: I would teach my children to like breast meat only. With only two legs per chicken our dinner table becomes a bargaining place. Tonight we rolled the dice and I lost. I was gleaming at my sons (my daughter and daughter in law were not present) as they enjoyed the benefits of the highest numbers rolled. Do things like that only happen in my family?


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ORANGE PARK, Fla. - La Nopalera restaurant in Orange Park has agreed to pay 24 employees $177,935 in back wages following an investigation by the U.S. Department of Labor's Wage and Hour Division that uncovered violations of the Fair Labor Standards Act's minimum wage and overtime provisions.
"Last August we announced that more than $934,000 in back wages were found due to employees of two other restaurants in Florida doing business under the same franchise name, and we continue to hold employers accountable when they abuse low-wage workers," said Michael Young, director of the Wage and Hour Division's Jacksonville District Office, which conducted the investigation. "Companies that play by the rules must be protected from those who use unscrupulous tactics to gain a competitive advantage."
Investigators found that tipped employees received only customers' tips for their wages, and employees did not receive overtime pay for hours beyond 40 hours in a workweek. Additionally, the restaurant failed to pay for all hours worked, required employees to work "off the clock" before and after their shifts, and failed to maintain accurate time and payroll records.
Of the total due, 24 employees will receive $176,377 for minimum wages owed, and two of those employees also will receive $1,558 in overtime back wages.
The Wage and Hour Division said it has several ongoing enforcement initiatives in Florida and throughout the nation to address similar noncompliance issues that are common in the restaurant industry. Other La Nopalera restaurants in Florida and Georgia were not part of this investigation.
The FLSA requires that covered, nonexempt employees be paid at least the federal minimum wage of $7.25 for all hours worked, plus time and one-half their regular rates for hours worked beyond 40 per week. In accordance with the FLSA, an employer of a tipped employee is required to pay no less than $2.13 an hour in direct wages provided that amount plus the tips received equals at least the federal minimum wage.
When an employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages do not equal the minimum wage, the employer must make up the difference. Employers also are required to provide employees with notice of the FLSA's tip credit provisions, to maintain accurate time and payroll records, and to comply with restrictions applying to workers under age 18 on hours and occupations.
Copyright 2012 by News4Jax.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


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The privacy row over Google Glass has forced Google do an unusually Apple-like thing: block applications.
Despite repeated attempts to reassure the public that Google would not include face recognition in its Glass project without the appropriate privacy controls, the search giant has been unable to silence privacy campaigners or curb the aspirations of third party developers who are keen to exploit the new technology. Read more


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Looking for more information about Zalie Waldhorn?
Search through millions of records to find out more.
Search through millions of records to find out more.
June 27, 1927 — Paris, France
Zalie was the second of three children born to immigrant Jewish parents. Her Polish-born father was a former officer in the Austro-Hungarian army who had met and married her Hungarian-born mother during World War I. Shortly before Zalie was born, her parents settled in Paris. There, Zalie and herbrother and sister grew up in a religious household.
1933-39: Mother said it was better in Paris than in the poor village in which she grew up. My mother spoke broken French, but I grew up speaking French fluently. At elementary school we learned all about French history. I wasn't afraid of Hitler. Father said that the terrible things happening to Jews in Germany wouldn't happen to us in France.
1940-44: I was almost 13 when the Germans occupied Paris in 1940. In 1942 my father was deported with other Polish-born Jews. Then my mother was deported. After that, I left Paris with false papers that hid my Jewish identity. I became 16-year-old Zalie Guerin. With my light hair, blue eyes and fluent French, I passed as a non-Jewish French citizen. In the town of Alencon I worked as a secretary, but after a year, I was discovered to be a Jew and arrested. The Germans beat me up; they seemed ashamed I'd fooled them for so long.
Zalie, 17, was deported to Auschwitz in a children's convoy on July 31, 1944. She survived the concentration camps, and returned to live in Paris after the war.
read 11/09/09
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|From: Ken Anderson (kanderson at bbn.com)
Date: Thu Jan 29 13:11:21 EST 2004
Thanks for this detailed reply. While i've always favored simple flexible languages, you've made their limits clear. From my experience with Common Lisp, MOP level programming is typically done only occasionally to provide a specific capability, such as persistence. To make this quantitative, i looked at Jython 2.1a3, which i have on my machine. I found 234 f*.py iles, with 3389 defs. Here is a histogram of the top 10 def __... methods: 264 __init__ 54 __repr__ 12 __getitem__ 10 __getattr__ 10 __del__ 9 __setitem__ 9 __len__ 7 __delitem__ 5 __str__ 5 __cmp__ Assuming __init__ and __repr__ are OK to define in normal code it means that about 3% of the methods are at the "meta level". Looking at some of the __getattr__ methods i see that they do things like "make this object appear to have all the fields of this other object" which is clever, but too clever to automatically reason about. So i get Matthias' point. However, if the contamination is only 3%, say 100 methods, maybe some of the libraries can be revised to void this problem. k At 10:03 AM 1/29/2004 -0500, Joe Marshall wrote: >Ken Anderson <kanderson at bbn.com> writes: > >> Do you really mean "most"? > >Matthias has answered some of this, but I thought I'd throw in my $.02 >as well. A couple of months back I was arguing with a Pythonista >about the pros and cons of Python and he challenged me to attack a >`real world' problem and compare it to his Python solution. > >Python has an execution model where the environment is represented by >a hash table (they call this a `dictionary'). It is not uncommon to >manipulate this structure directly to introduce new bindings in a >rather undisciplined way. The Python class structure is built upon >this model. > >In any class-based object system, there is functionality that is >provided by the class system (hierarchy, inheritance, specialization, >encapsulation) upon which the user implements the behavior of whatever >it is he is modeling. The Python class system works by creating >dictionaries with `hidden' fields and methods that implement the class >functionalities. So, for example, all classes have a hidden method >that is called when the interpreter attempts to assign a value to a >class field. > >The problem is that these fields are not particularly well hidden. It >is quite common to modify the meta-level functionality on a class by >class basis by overriding the __init__, __getattr__, __setattr__, >__getitem__, and __setitem__ fields. > >There really isn't a well-defined reflective meta-level to the class >system. Pythonistas change the meta-behavior by ad-hoc reprogramming >of the interpreter. > >> If by "translucent" you mean that a class can take on new fields and >> behaviors, i think that can be important for piecemeal growth of an >> application. > >Agreed, and the meta-level should provide a mechanism for doing such a >thing. The meta-level procedure can have a documented behavior that >can be reasoned about. But Python does not have this. The fields in >an object are determined dynamically by the object itself, and the >user may have overridden that method. > >Advanced object-oriented concepts, like mixins, are implemented by >creating a class that when instantiated within an object, calls `eval' >to redefine certain methods within the object. > >> Isn't there a point when a python application, or library can be >> treated as object oriented and then reasoned about? > >Unfortunately, no. There is no `declarative' class structure. > >> Or is it like TCL where eveything is a string and unimaginable >> string hacking can take place anywhere? > >Pretty much, except that it is all hash tables. > >It reminds me of Lisp in its extreme youth where the value and >function cells were kept on the symbol property list and people felt >free to manipulate them in undisciplined ways. Its very flexible and >powerful, but the lack of discipline makes it impossible to reason >about. Since those days we've learned that we can achieve the same >results in a structured manner. Python is still young.
|Posted on the users mailing list.


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HSU Working To Enroll Students In Calfresh Program
Humboldt State University social work students are working to get students off the Top Ramen diet and end food insecurity among students. A $45,000 contract awarded to the Social Work Department will help enroll students and staff in Califonria's Calfresh program.
The contract was awarded to the department from the Humboldt County's Department of Health and Human Services. The partnership is designed to increase enrollment in the program.
Jen Maguire, Assistant Professor of Social Work, said students are often under enrolled in the assistance program.
"We're not really sure what the participation rates are but traditionally students don't think they qualify for Calfresh," said Maguire.
Ten students will be hired to assist and retain students in the program.
Ian Mackelvie is in the social work graduate program and said he has experienced food insecurity like many of his peers.
"It can mean whether or not you have enough food in your budget or have the supplies at home," said Mackelvie.
The contract will go toward enrolling and educating students about Calfresh and advertising the program on campus.
Maguire said students will be enrolling other students like they would in their future careers. "This is real life experience," said Maguire
The students and faculty in the department will also be able to track how many students and staff qualify for the program and what percentage experience food insecurity.


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I'm having some difficulties optimizing a certain part of my web site for Internet Explorer... it looks perfect in Chrome.
I've tried everything to solve it but I'm stuck and to the point where I'm asking for help.
Everything looks perfect on the home page, however any other pages where a skyscraper ad appears on the right.. it looks stretched out in IE.
This page as the example... http://www.vancouverprofile.com/contactus/
I'm not doing anything different on those pages but apparently I am since the ad space is very stretched out.. only in IE!!
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
From a quick look, I can't see the issue, but there are lots of validation errors on the page, so it would be worth addressing them and seeing if that fixes the issue:
Thanks! I will fix all those errors. Most of them are alt tags, etc.
I have attached a picture of the extra space I'm seeing when using IE.
The errors noramlly affect how the page is viwed, even if those errors are mainly just alt attributes (no, alt is not a tag :D)
But for the list I can read, it would be much more efficent to fix the errors first and then return here if the page is still giving you problems.
Yes, as molona says, that was the point of mentioning the errors. Some of the errors involved tags not being closed properly, which can often cause problems like what's being described.
Fixed the issue! It was a simple coding error on my part... nothing to do with the validation errors... I didn't pay any attention to those.
Thanks for all your help guys... it helped me focus on my code and get to the bottom of it. As long as it looks good in every browser, I'm happy.
Heh heh, validation is often the easiest way to pick up on coding errors. Glad you sorted it, anyhow.
If your website does not perform on Internet Explorer It may be due to the website not being cross browser compatible. Hence, one should use a liquid layout as it will create a website which is cross browser compatible. If you are using a liquid layout then your website will fit all browsers without any problem.
Sorry, but that's just nonsense. The type of layout you use - fixed, elastic, liquid or whatever - will have no effect whatsoever on cross-browser compatibility. It will make a difference to the ability of different devices to display your site, but that is a different subject.
The actual problem was weird because there was an issue that was just a colspan="2" when it should have been colspan="3"... so the error was mine and Internet Explorer was displaying the error of my ways, while Google Chrome was displaying it exactly how I had intended it but the error wasn't showing the same as it was in IE... pretty weird as I would think such a mistake would look wrong on any browser. I've noticed twice now with coding errors I made that Google Chrome always displays it how I actually want it to look even though IE will show me the error and look wrong.
Thanks all!


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MIAMI SHORES, Fla. – The Saint Leo women's soccer team (2-9-1) fell to the Barry University Buccaneers (4-6) by the final score of 2-0, Wednesday evening from Buccaneer Field in non-conference action.
Battling the Bucs for the second time in less than a month, the Lions could not uphold Jessica Griffith's five-save night as Barry's Emma Karp registered a 51st-minute goal to send the Bucs' to the eventual 2-0 victory.
Griffith backed the Lions' defense in the first half as she compiled each of her saves in the opening stanza, keeping Barry off the board. Meanwhile, the Lions' offense was filtered through junior Ashley Acco as she registered two of the team's three shots in the first half, including the club's lone shot on target.
However, the Buccaneers broke the scoreless affair early in the second half as Emma Karp, who had a hand in both the Buccaneers' goals, slotted one past Griffith to give the home standing Bucs' the lead.
Barry added to the advantage in the 66th-minute when Lavinia Nkomo found the net off a feed from Karp.
The Saint Leo attack did begin to find its groove, however, as they posted nine shots in the second half, five of which came off the foot of sophomore Ari Foreman. Three of those nine attempts were on target, but Barry goalkeeper Becca Rodgers was up to the challenge as she made all three saves to preserve the win.
Barry outshot the Lions, 16-12, while the two teams combined for nine corner kick attempts. The Lions' Abby Evans also posted three saves in the setback.
The Lions will now prepare for a trip to Winter Park, Fla. as they challenge Rollins College in a Sunshine State Conference showdown. Kickoff is set for 7:30 p.m.
For more on the women's soccer program, visit SaintLeoLions.com.
'Follow' the Lions on Twitter at Twitter.com/SaintLeoLions'. Also, be sure to 'Like' the Lions on Facebook at Facebook.com/SaintLeoLions.
This postgame recap is brought to you by Papa Joe's Italian Restaurant. Located in Brooksville, Fla., contact Papa Joe's at 352-799-3904 for dine in, or catering needs.


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Submit News
Touchscreen Windows 8 Devices: Hot or Not?
Tiffany Kaiser
December 5, 2012 1:17 PM
Recipient E-mail
Sender E-mail
Different reports say different things about demand for Windows 8 touch devices
How are
Windows 8-based touch PCs
faring since their October launch? I guess it depends on whom you ask.
A new report from
said that PC makers are trying to meet demand for the Windows 8 laptops, tablets and hybrid convertibles, and stores are having trouble keeping them on the shelves. However, a report from
The Seattle Times
offers a very different point of view.
spoke with two different analysts on the topic, including Bob O'Donnell from IDC and Rhoda Alexander from IHS iSuppli. Both stated that vendors are having a hard time meeting customer demand for Windows 8 touchscreen PCs, and may even have shortages in the near future.
"We've talked to a number of PC makers that are having trouble obtaining touch panels and some of the vendors I've talked to said they can't keep them on the shelf," said Alexander.
O'Donnell made sure to add that non-touch
Windows 8 PCs
are not doing quite as well, though. This is only based on touchscreen devices.
The Seattle Times
had a very different report. It said that the low availability of Windows 8-powered tablet devices has led to decreased customer demand, and obviously sales.
According to
The Seattle Times
, only five Windows 8 tablets out of a dozen that were announced are available on the market. Two of them, including Microsoft's own Surface and an Acer tablet, are only available at the Microsoft Store. Currently, there are only about 60 of those.
This short reach has been affecting demand and sales of the tablets, it said.
The Seattle Times
also spoke with an analyst to get an idea of what's going on with Microsoft's latest addition, and the feedback wasn't too positive.
Wes Miller, an analyst at Directions, said that Microsoft has been hush-hush about its sales numbers, and that is never an encouraging sign.
The Seattle Times
doesn't seem to think that Windows 8 devices will combat the likes of Apple's iPad anytime soon, this isn't the end for Windows 8-based tablets. Eve Jung, an analyst at Nomura, said tablet shipments will pass up notebook shipments in the second half of 2013. By then, Microsoft will have its Windows 8 Pro-based Surface on the market and more Windows RT tablets (the ARM-based version) will have finally made their way into stores.
While the number of sales of Windows 8-based touchscreen devices is unclear, Microsoft just proudly announced that
Windows 8 upgrades hit 40 million
in the first month of release. This surpassed Windows 7, which was the previous record breaker for Windows OS upgrades.
The Seattle Times
"If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion." -- Scientology founder L. Ron. Hubbard
Related Articles
Windows 8 Beats Windows 7, Sets New Sales Record
November 28, 2012, 12:29 PM
Windows 8 Usability on PCs for Novice and Power Users Blasted in Study
November 21, 2012, 4:20 PM
Analyst: Windows 8 Tablet Pricing Is Too High
October 11, 2012, 9:08 AM
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808 State launch clothing line
Discuss 808 State and related.
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808 State launch clothing line
Manchester House trio 808 STATE are the latest Techno stars to launch a range of streetwear in the UK. Group members Graham Massey, Andrew Barker and Darren Partington front new clothing line CUBIK, which features a range of casual wear including jeans and hoodies. The band, who enjoyed success in the early 1990s, are currently working on a new live show alongside their fashion endeavours, with the new show branded 'In Yer Face Again'.
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And make sure that you have configure your software correctly.
In my view,the missing message of fonts is just Warnings and it should not cause xserver to fail to start.
Inb4 "see 64-bit KDE startx fix thread", I have made a strong effort to view the documentation already in the BT5 forum regarding the startx problem. I, however, have not had any luck so far getting BT5 to work on my setup which is as follows:
Lenovo Thinkpad X201
Intel i5
Intel integrated HD graphics (the 3400 chipset I believe)
running VMWare Workstation 6 (only way to run BT as the box has no disc drive nor do I have any flash drives large enough to hold images)
on Windows XP SP3 32bit
To save space, I am including a forum thread from linuxquestions.org that is incredibly similar to my setup, problem, and the attempts that I have made to fix things:http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...tarted-881650/
(as in this thread, I am receiving a Signal 4 to kill things off followed by an xorg log that tells me I do not have certain fonts).
tldr; I have tried the following common methods already:
-32bit GNOME and KDE .iso files (both have correct MD5)
-deletion of cache files when using KDE
-modification of the grub to use older Intel tech (the i915.modeset=1 mod)
*Please keep in mind that I have not had a successful install of BT, as this problem prevents me from loading the GUI. I have only live disc capabilities.
I have heard that BT5 doesn't like to play well with Intel HD integrated graphics nor does it like the Thinkpads (but I could be mistaken). I have also heard that BT4 r2 has been working well for most people, however I would like to use that as a last resort. I am coming to you intelligent people for help, if you would be so kind, because I am but a novice linux user and am quickly running out of ideas to try. Any advice you could give me on this topic would be greatly appreciated.
If you have any questions regarding results and configuration, please let me know. I will try to respond to all requests quickly.
*Note: I am currently working to prepare a regular linux image to see if the problem is of a broader scale than just BT.
Moderators: If I have posted in the wrong section of the forum, I apologize. As you can see from above, this post could easily fit in multiple sections.
Edit: After upgrading the vm software, I was able to get BT running. My guess is that the version that I was using didn't like to play well with my hardware in certain situations. Go figure :P Thank you for the help!
Last edited by k0ntagious; 06-21-2011 at 04:17 AM. Reason: Problem Solved
And make sure that you have configure your software correctly.
In my view,the missing message of fonts is just Warnings and it should not cause xserver to fail to start.
I've heard that too. I'll dig a bit deeper into the log file to see if I can find anything worse than a warning.
Also, I'm not sure what else I could do to configure the software. I've set the workstation to 6.x, the RAM to about 1gb, hard drive space shouldn't be an issue either. I've set the OS type to 'other' using the 2.6.x kernel and have the rest of the settings on auto-detect.
I'll do some research on optimal vm software configurations. Thank you for the reply!


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