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Ashton Kutcher to Play Steve Jobs in Indie Biopic (Wait, What?)
It's true: Ashton Kutcher is attached to play Steve Jobs in an indie biopic. Good idea? Or terrible one?
-Lucia Peters
Well, this is interesting: According to Variety, Ashton Kutcher is currently attached to play Apple genius Steve Jobs in the upcoming indie biopic Jobs.
Did your brain just explode a little bit? Because mine sure did.
Anytime a major game changer or innovator passes away, everyone immediately jumps on the biopic bandwagon, and Steve Jobs' passing in October is no exception. Jobs, which will be directed by Swing Vote's Joshua Michael Stern and written by Matt Whiteley, will track Jobs from his beginnings as a "wayward hippie" (says Variety, at least) all the through his time as co-founder of Apple. It's scheduled to start production in May while Ashton is on hiatus from Two and a Half Men.
My take on it? I often feel rather conflicted about Ashton (which is probably why I'm not wild about the idea of sending him to space). He does extremely stupid things sometimes (see: the Great Sandusky Tweet of 2011) Punk'd never really quite did it for me, and he's never struck me as that astonishing an actor. However, he also originally planned to study biochemical engineering in college and he's proven himself to have one helluva head for business, so clearly he's not as stupid as he sometimes looks. Even so, when you think "Steve Jobs," do you immediately follow it up with "Ashton Kutcher?" Yeah, me neither.
Read Are We Seriously Sending Ashton Kutcher to Space?
Maybe I'm a little biased—right now, I'm not too fond of him because of that whole allegedly-having-cheated-on-his-wife thing—but I'm not totally convinced that Ashton has the acting chops to pull it off. Then again, though he's probably most known for fluff flicks like New Year's Eve and No Strings Attached, he's also gotten some pretty strong praise for his work in films like Spread and the historical drama Bobby (which, admittedly, I haven't seen). Maybe he's got depths that I haven't hitherto witnessed.
He does LOOK the part, at least; check out these two images via the Hollywood Reporter of Ashton side by side with a young Steve:
Kind of eerie, right? I suppose we'll just have to wait and see how it turns out…
Tell us: Do you think Ashton will be able to pull of playing Steve Jobs?
Lucia Peters is BettyConfidential's associate editor.


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I am thinking of making an existing site mobile. It's a wordpress site and is although it has a blog, it looks more like a static site with a half-dozen sections.
I have been reading up on responsive design and get the whole resiszing thing and I'm OK I think, with media queries but I can't work out how to not load content in a mobile site.
So this site has a section for parents, for adults, children, about section and so on. For a mobile I probably only want about, the blog and contact so how do I prevent sections being accessed on a mobile?
Well if you do a mobile stylesheet via <link> or what not, you can set to the other sections to display:none; that way they don't show up :).
Thanks Ryan,
I suppose that if I only want certain pages to be available to mobile, then I have to somehow, hide items in the list.
I guess that will be tricky if the menu is dynamically generated.
Hiding stuff from mobile users is a controversial move, and annoys a lot of visitors. There seems to be a building trend away from this. What's your rationale for not making all content available?
You could set up a separate site (e.g. m.mysite.com) and use browser detection to serve up the different site to the mobile device, but it's not likely to be worth it. At a pinch, you could hide certain site links via your media queries, but I still wouldn't recommend it.
I suppose that would be to reduce the content as much as possible. It would be great to think that the contact details, about page and news items were available to small devices. Other sections will be text heavy and I just thought that I couldn't imagine anyone wanting to read text heavy content on-the-go, on a tiny screen?
Leaving it would be easier.
Best leave it to users to decide. (They can always choose not to click on that stuff.) Some people only have time to read articles on the train to work on a mobile device. Why tell them they can't? (That's just one scenario I can think of.)
I think it's a good idea to show your most important content to the mobile user and not overload their tiny device with unnecessary information. So I guess you just have to make the tough decision of what is necessary and what isn't. Remember, if you plan to use media queries, depending on how you set out your site, your users could still be downloading a images and whatnot in the background without even seeing it, chewing up their bandwidth. Just keep that in mind.
Are you saying it's good to overload a user's desktop with unnecessary information? That raises another issue—one that is being [brought up [URL="http://www.the-haystack.com/2011/01/07/there-is-no-mobile-web/"]a lot more [URL="http://www.slideshare.net/yiibu/the-trouble-with-context"]these days](http://www.slideshare.net/stephenhay/structured-content-first).
Touche! However, I think there is a difference between bare necessities and that little bit extra. It's my personal opinion, but I think the whole mobile first movement limit's a person's ability to be creative.I'm yet to be convinced that everything that the content on the desktop version should resemble that same content on a 320px (or so) wide screen...
If you're worried about hiding content... you're doing something wrong.
If every bit of content isn't necessary for mobile users, then it isn't for desktop users either.
You should take a good hard look at your "regular" website and try to trim it down to the essentials. If you have a lot of "nice to haves", move them to other pages where the users can still find them, but where they don't take up space from what really needs to be there.
Like Ralph said, hiding content is generally not a good idea. I have a high-end smart phone and a really fast connection. There is no legitimate reason that I should be able to do everything on my phone that I can from the computer I'm sitting at right now. When developers make that decision that I can't access a certain feature, it really annoys me. It annoys me even more because the reason was usually because the feature doesn't work on the device. Instead of fixing it, they simply hide it. If it wasn't important enough to let me use from my mobile device, it isn't important enough for it to be on your site.
Oh, because I generally like to answer the question presented (even if I disagree with the premise).
Be careful exactly how you load content. For example, if a style sheet loads which contains images to load, even if those images are never used, they will still be loaded. So while you think you are reducing what is loading on the page, you may not be. Media queries to block the entire script from loading are probably one of the best methods to avoid this (so be wary of any "common" style sheets and really keep their content limited).
As for HTML content, there are a couple ways of dealing with this:- Load everything and hide stuff. This is easier to do, but causes larger loads than needed.- Have the page load an page that sets a cookie, then read that cookie to determine which content to actually send. This method can usually work well, though has quite a few contingencies (and an extra redirect, which can be bothersome on high-ping mobile devices)- Have a mobile site. This one is very very similar to the second (so I prefer the second), but you can have a completely separate site and redirect mobile users to it.
However, like I said, I prefer to have all of the HTML content load regardless of platform, then deal with it in a platform appropriate manner.
"Here is your mobile version of the website my dear client. With the things you need the most."
"Wow, looks great."
"And here is the desktop version,"
"It looks good, but, where is all the content? The rest of the stuff I asked for that I don't need on the mobile version? The details, the fine print?"
"Well, that stuff isn't important on the mobile site, so how can it be important on the desktop site?"
or perhaps it should sound like:
"And here is the desktop version, with more content, as screen is larger and the page can fit more. Meaning your customers need not click so often and can find information faster"
Why would the fine print not be important on a mobile version? Is legalese excused because it's a mobile site? Is that an automatic no-sue zone? =p
I'm not saying you can't have more on the desktop version... but often times, it's not important and can be moved as well. If it is important, you can usually take the multi-column layout and combine it into one column.
A lot of times developers are so worried about using every inch of available space that they forget to worry about document flow. A linear flow is the most effective method of guiding the users eye where you want them to go, and it's perfect for mobile. Just because it's visible doesn't mean it's faster to find either. There are so many layouts that are so busy because they want everything and the kitchen sink on them, that you often miss what's right in front of you. Having a well guided one-column linear layout, even if it requires more clicks, can often be more beneficial to finding what you are looking for quickly (hence why sites like Amazon adopt a single-column layout on their mobile site).
I would challenge you to find a good site that you can't get all the appropriate content onto a mobile site. There isn't one. If you can't get it all on a mobile site, it means there is too much on that page on the desktop version.
Coming in late, but I generally show all the same content on the mobile, I just make sure that it displays well. I use media-queries and quite a lot of different CSS as the size of the browser changes. I do - as Ralph suggested - change from 3 to 2 to 1 column, I resize images and replace them with the smaller version that fits the mobile in landscape or portrait. I also increase the size of buttons, and clickable links for fingers rather than mouse clicks.
There is some movement behind the idea to build the mobile version of your site first and then build out for the tablets and desktops. Over 80% of Japan's most popular social networking site connect via mobile, 400 000 000 people connect to facebook regularly using just a mobile, so as more people switch to predominantly using their mobiles then we maybe should gear our thinking to planning for the mobiles first. When you focus on making the experience good in mobile then you tend to stay away from 'jambing the kitchen sink' into it and also provides a better experience for the desktop version.
To follow along with that, I read a statistic the other day that said by 2014, mobile browsing will have overtaken desktop browsing (in terms of usage).
Hi, Interesting...
Nowadays I've got people asking why others would mobiles as their primary browsing environment because it is so much easier and can do more on the desktop/tablet. The answer is simple "Currently, developers design for the desktop, when the market demands mobile first then this will no longer be the case". IMHO we are in the cross-roads to this. Just think of the millions of people in Asia that are rising into a middle-class type of living and want the Internet. Most of the places they live are spotty at best with land-line coverage and no company will invest in this; they are buying and browsing using their mobile phones. This will rapidly intensify in the next few years, so it is pretty easy to see how Christian's stat follows
This is an article that talks about it: http://mashable.com/2010/04/13/mobile-web-stats/
I saw a much more recent article, but I can't currently find it.
Well, I think that my question has been answered although I'm not sure what the answer is
I'm settled on the idea not to "hide" stuff to mobile users but my intention was not to dupe people but only to give them what I thought might be most critical.
The site is for a psychologist and over time, there is a commitment to making the site a resource of information an not just a kind of brochure site. So, it could get quite large. But I guess that organising content will be crucial.
I have enjoyed the discussoin and found it helpful, thanks.

subset: commoncrawl


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A LORRY driver has appeared in court accused of causing a head-on collision near Selby that killed a 19-year-old car driver.
Stoyan Andonov Stoyanov was allegedly driving a Bulgarian-registered white Mercedes Actros on the wrong side of the A1246 immediately before the two vehicles collided.
Callum Wark, from the Leeds area, was driving a black Renault Clio, travelling away from Fairburn, at 2.45pm on Saturday, when he was killed in the crash.
Stoyanov, 56, from Plovdiv in Bulgaria, who does not have a UK address, was charged with causing Mr Wark's death by dangerous driving and was sent in custody to York magistrates.
When he appeared his solicitor Craig Robertson did not apply for bail, and Stoyanov was remanded to prison to await his next court appearance.
Magistrates heard the charge could be tried only by a judge and jury and sent him to York Crown Court, where he will have a preliminary hearing on March 17.
The case was delayed for several hours before an interpreter could arrive.
Police assured court staff they had booked a Bulgarian-speaking interpreter for the hearing which was listed for 10am, but the agency responsible for providing one was unable to do so until the afternoon.
Both magistrates and Mr Robertson thanked the interpreter for travelling from Nottingham, saying it would have been a very difficult day for them without his help.
The collision occurred between Fairburn and the junction of the A63 with the A1246 near Selby Fork Hotel.
It blocked the road for several hours while police carried out initial investigations and removed the vehicles.


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The police helicopter was scrambled in the early hours of this morning to search for four men seen leaving a crash scene.
Police were contacted at 2.20am with reports that a red Honda Accord had collided with a fence in The Street, Latchingdon and that the four occupants, all believed to be men, were seen leaving the scene.
An area search was conducted by the force's helicopter but the men were not found.
Enquiries are continuing.
Anyone with information should contact Essex Police on 101.


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Below are some scenes from this year's gala - which included a small business fair of entrepreneurial ventures run by NFTE students. We had a chance to meet a talented group of smart, articulate teens who ran everything from internet businesses to wedding cakes!
|Guests getting seated for the awards ceremony. This year's gala honors the founder of NFTE Steve Mariotti, a former finance executive who switched careers to teach disadvantaged youths practical business skills.
|Dinner tables were beautifully decorated with blue sequins, dinner started off with delicious roasted beet salad appetizer
|NFTE students showcased their businesses during the cocktail reception. Here, Jushawn Carter (17 years old) of Atlanta displays cakes from her business CakesbyFourteen. For every client, Jushawn sketches out the design of the cake and crafts all the decorative features over several days - each cake runs around $500.
|Jushawn made this cake specially for NFTE's 25th anniversary!
|Jennifer LaSala runs a candy company called Sugar Coated Heaven. She also recently signed a lease in Providence, Rhode Island to open a brick and mortar shop. Only 19 years old, Jennifer has already experienced the challenge of securing a small business load and dealing with bureaucratic challenges of leases and kitchen health inspections.
|Muneera Al-Maneea of Saudi Arabia has created a dust sensor that can measure levels of indoor dust pollution. This device can be used by those who have allergies and are concerned about air quality in the home.
|Close up of Muneera Al-Maneea's dust sensor - she has designed this device so that it can be manufactured at a price affordable to consumers.
|Bethany Garraway of the United Kingdom of Sole Sale presents her prototype of dress shoes with a removable heel. The 2 inch heel is attached to the shoe with magnets and can be removed to be converted to a flat!
|Guests were invited to text donations during the awards ceremony. Texted donations and messages were projected onto the stage screen.
|Sponsors of this year's gala include Mastercard, Microsoft, Goldman Sachs 10,000 Small Business Initiative, Etrade, New York Life, and Ernst & Young.


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BRISTOL CITY have appointed Sean O'Driscoll as their new manager.
Derek McInnes was sacked shortly after the 4-0 home defeat to Leicester City on Saturday, which left the club bottom of the Championship and six points adrift of safety.
Former Nottingham Forest boss O'Driscoll, 55, turned down the manager's job at fellow Championship strugglers Barnsley last week and it is believed he chose to join City in favour of Blackpool.
Bristol City football managing director Jon Lansdown said: "It's important that we give ourselves the best possible chance of surviving and moving up the Championship table this season. "In Sean we have someone with a track record of developing clubs longer term, as well as a wealth of experience at this level, which will be vital in our fight for survival in the Championship. "I am delighted he decided to join us ahead of a number of other offers he has received.
"This season has been a rocky ride and we find ourselves in a difficult position, but we still have the time and ability to get out of it. "We need everyone associated with Bristol City Football Club to pull together and get behind Sean, the staff and players to give them every ounce of support possible between now and the final game of the season."
O'Driscoll started his managerial career at Bournemouth, where he spent most of his playing days, and led the cash-strapped club to Division Three (now League Two) play-off success in 2003.
Within six months at Doncaster O'Driscoll won the Football League Trophy with a 3-2 success over Bristol Rovers in Cardiff and the following season he guided them to promotion to the Championship after they beat Leeds in the League One play-off final at Wembley.
With one of the lowest wage bills in the Championship, O'Driscoll managed to turn Rovers into a comfortable mid-table side for a number of seasons before he was sacked in 2011. He was named Crawley boss last May, but never took charge of a competitive game as he was lured to Forest by ambitious new owners before being surprisingly sacked on Boxing Day after just five months in charge following a 4-2 win over Leeds, which left the side on the brink of the play-offs.
City have conceded 54 goals in 26 Championship games this season and are the only side in the Football League to have failed to keep a clean sheet this season.
McInnes left St Johnstone to take charge in October 2011 with the club languishing at the bottom of the Championship following the sacking of Keith Millen and managed to keep them up, but oversaw a club record equalling seven-game losing run earlier this season.


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The purpose of the Employee Benefits in California series is to identify the benefits California organizations provide to their employees and determine if they leverage these benefits for recruitment and retention. In this research, California data are compared with national data. The series consists of the following six parts: 1) wellness initiatives, 2) flexible work arrangements, 3) health care, 4) leveraging benefits to retain employees, 5) leveraging benefits to recruit employees, and 6) communicating benefits.
The use of benefits as a tool to recruit and retain employees at California organizations is not a widespread practice. However, some organizations now promote a "total rewards" approach to attracting top talent, which includes leveraging an employer's benefits package. This strategy may be particularly useful for organizations that cannot sustain leading salaries in their market.
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Attention Administrator - database is in test mode!
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Treasurer skills and general duties
The treasurer should be detail oriented, have strong math skills and do his/her best to see these actions are done properly so that there are no doubts about his/her integrity:
Understand adults' roles when dealing with club finances
Coordinate dues collection and payment
Meeting attendance and duties
Disburse funds
Prepare and review the budget
Manage club accounts Key Club International is a nonprofit organization, receiving much of its receipts from the general public. Therefore, the law requires that two separate accounts for receipts and expenditures be maintained. These accounts are the service account and the administrative account.
Service account: All monies collected from the general public must be returned to the general public. Such money can't be used for club administrative costs, such as printing, conventions and conferences and travel to events other than service projects.
Administrative accounts: The administrative account is the operating account for the club. It is used for those monies to be spent on club administration and/or members. Monies coming from the administrative account are collected from dues, Kiwanis-family members and school subsidies. Monies in this account may be used to buy supplies, purchase advertising, send members to conventions and conferences, etc.
Funds in the administrative account can be transferred to the service account. However, no funds from the service account may be transferred to the administrative account.
It is helpful in bookkeeping and auditing to note on each receipt into which account the money was deposited. Likewise, all checks should note from which account and line item, if appropriate, the money was drawn.
Maintain accurate financial records
Additional duties
Kiwanis Key Club
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Microsoft Surface 2 Reviewby Anand Lal Shimpi on 10/21/2013 12:00 AM EST
139 Comments
Back to Article
sri_tech - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkWhat Google services you think are better than Microsoft services? I don't understand the fascination towards these chromebooks.
1. Google docs are wannabe MS Office which does not have the most of the functionality and not compatible with many peripherals.
2. Outlook.com is very good email client and in addition Outlook for work related things.
Can't you access the gmail from browser? If you need app for everything what is the point of all the browser tests that you guys do in every review.
You can pin the gmail.com to the start screen and with just a tap, you will be in gmail. That is how everyone using them on laptops right?
3. Skydrive is very good and has all the features and more cross platform than Google drive.
4. Skype is integrated into the OS which is more widely used than any Google equivalent.
5. Can you use chromebooks as tablets? Does chromebooks have touchscreens?
6. All the bing apps like news, finance, travel, weather are not useful?
I expect better from you guys. Reply
noeldillabough - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkI have a huge problem with skydrive; although this might not apply to these tablets, but if you want to use it you must log in with your Microsoft account. If you're on a domain and login with your domain credentials and click on skydrive in 8.1, it prompts you to switch to a connected account.
Unfortunately this renders Skydrive completely useless. I'd be fine if I could add my Microsoft account in and still log in with the domain account but you can't anymore. Maybe an oversight. Reply
sri_tech - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkA Microsoft service needs Microsoft account. So does all other services from all companies.
I don't understand your second point. Reply
noeldillabough - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkThe issue is in windows 8 you could enter your Microsoft account information for SkyDrive without having to switch your login account to a connected account. Now its forced and if you have a corporate device logging in with your Microsoft account won't be allowed. Reply
Wolfpup - Thursday, October 31, 2013 - linkYep. Microsoft has ironically killed support for Skydrive on Windows 8.1. Reply
dustwalker13 - Friday, November 22, 2013 - linkyes it is a bit annoying that you can not change the account, since it has been integrated so deeply with the system now. but actually i do not mind all that much. what it means in the end is that my own devices are synced with my account, and should i need data from another account i can:
1. share them and access them this way
2. login to the other account via the browser
so actually that is a nonexistant problem once you think about it and a logical solution for microsoft as they save all the important settings on skydrive for your devices and thererfor of course want you to be connected to your account at least on that level. Reply
althaz - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkHis issue (mine as well) is that when you are at work, your domain account should automatically count as a Microsoft account. I don't want to login with my home MS account to do work stuff, that would a) jumble my shit together and b) not make sense. Currently I get around it by having a second microsoft account, but that's a super-long way away from ideal. Reply
damianrobertjones - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkIf you're on a domain it means business and the business should ALSO provide you with the Outlook.com account. At no point should you realistically be using YOUR OWN personal account on the business machine. Reply
cjb110 - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkYea, at most you should be able to share (given your security guys allows you) your business data with external untrusted accounts (which your personal one is). Reply
FredyHandanovic - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkMy Uncle Andrew just got a nearly new red Mazda MAZDA6 Sedan by work part-time using a lap-top. look at here now http://goo.gl/dXg26D Reply
purerice - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkNow that you put it that way, you're right. Workers need to separate their private lives and their work lives. That would not only improve their performance at work but also their performance at home. Reply
Mopar63 - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkI am not sure what issue you are having. I log into Skydrive software just fine and do not have to keep logging in, the same applies to my other services through Explorer. The issue you seem to be facing is one of setup. If the domain account is not set for internet access then you can use your MS web based account just fine unless your domain is designed to block it. This is not a limitation of Windows but of domain setup. Reply
Wolfpup - Thursday, October 31, 2013 - linkWindows 8 allowed you to log in to Skydrive, and it was even integrated in Explorer. Windows 8.1 doesn't. Skydrive is unusable. The only way to use it would be to use a Microsoft account on your local machine, instead of your own account, which of course isn't something anyone should do. Reply
RannXeroxx - Sunday, November 24, 2013 - linkA domain has not connection with Microsoft unless you connect the two via federated services such as Office 365. Also SkyDrive and SkyDrive Pro as separate things as the Pro version is for corporate usage. You system administrator can disable the ability for you to connect your company own device to the consumer version of SkyDrive while linking your computer to the corporate version. Also in the corporate world, AD identity management is handled with another backend system.
It just sounds like your company simply has no policies or processes to manage Windows 8(.1) devices in their environment which is not surprising since most have not even fully integrated Windows 7 with all of its corporate connectivity into their environment and treat it like its XP. Reply
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OoklaTheMok - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkYou do not have to switch to logging into the computer using a Microsoft Account, that would be ridiculous. You can do one of the following, you can connect a Microsoft Account to your local login or if you don't want to connect a Microsoft Account, you can use a Microsoft Account only with SkyDrive. Reply
Wolfpup - Thursday, October 31, 2013 - linkNo, you can't do either of those things. The wording SOUNDS like it's going to let you associate a Microsoft account with your Windows account, but at the last minute wants to switch you over.
And you USED to be able to log in independently in Windows 8, but that's now gone in 8.1. They broke Skydrive support with 8.1 Reply
Braumin - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkYou don't have to switch you can connect your domain account to your MS account in the settings page. Reply
noeldillabough - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkI haven't figured out how to do that yet; in Windows 8 you simply clicked on skydrive and entered your account info and it worked. In 8.1 it only has the "switch" option. Which settings page? I must have missed it. Reply
noeldillabough - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkJust checked on the "Account" part of the Win8.1 settings, and it only has "Connect to a Microsoft Account" available. I tried it to see if it would keep the local account settings but no I actually have to log in to the computer using the Microsoft account. This of course won't fly in the corporate world so I put it back (that was painful too since the Microsoft account and the domain account had the same name) Reply
Braumin - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkhttp://windows.microsoft.com/en-CA/windows-8/conne...
Does that not still work? It worked in 8 I haven't tried in 8.1 but not sure why they would remove it. Reply
Memristor - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkOf course it works. I have set up several Win8.1 systems and it works the same, actually much better integrated now. My only problem is that you can't see what skydrive is doing in the background. In 8.0 you had a status message that showed the progress of file sync, in 8.1 is only a visual marker in folder view that shows a file sync is in process, but not how much is completed. Reply
noeldillabough - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkSo I gave it a try from home, logged in as local account and sure enough it says this: "You're almost done. Your existing account will now be changed to a Microsoft account. All of your files on this PC will remain in place.
Gonna cancel and create another account and "convert" it and see what happens. Reply
mooshuc - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkappears that you can see sync status by launching the skydrive modern app. Reply
althaz - Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - linkI just agreed with you on this...but I just realised no matter what cloud storage solution you use you need to login to an external service. Reply
skiboysteve - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkAgreed. Why buy a MS product and then talk about google service integration? That's like buying a nexus and expecting to log in with your Microsoft account. It makes no sense.
just use the MS services when you use an MS device. You will find them in many ways second to none. Reply
Ancillas - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkThat's like saying I shouldn't use Google services over iCloud if I own an iOS device. I don't like tying my data to my hardware because it limits my ability to change platforms. Hardware that limits my ability to interact with third-party cloud providers is a deal-breaker. Reply
Silellak - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkExactly. I use Google's services because it's the best cross-platform choice for my daily use cases. I don't intend to change ecosystems just so I can use a single device better. Reply
Braumin - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkIt's a fair point, but cross-platform and Google are not the same thing. Google is the one that refuses to make any apps for Windows 8 or Windows Phone.
Arguably Microsoft now how the most cross platform cloud services now.
But if you are going to use the Surface and review it, really it should be with all of the MS Services so you can get the full experience. The new SkyDrive integration is really quite excellent and seamless, and it's nice how everything will sync across devices like your background, installed apps, layout, etc. Reply
paulbram - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkBut is Google's ecosystem really the best cross-platform choice? The way I see it is everything that MS has is available on Windows/iOS/Android. EAS just works everywhere. SkyDrive is everywhere. There are Outlook apps as well if you don't want to use the built in stuff. Sure, the full Office is only on Windows but Office web access is available everywhere and that is in my opinion as good if not better than Google Docs. Reply
Silellak - Monday, October 21, 2013 - link"But is Google's ecosystem really the best cross-platform choice? The way I see it is everything that MS has is available on Windows/iOS/Android."
Everything except their browser, which is the thing I used the most every day on OSX, Windows 7, and Ubuntu. Kind of a gaping hole for me. Reply
Klimax - Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - linkTalk to Google, because IIRC browsers are exempt from certain restrictions on API. Reply
Wolfpup - Thursday, October 31, 2013 - linkSkydrive no longer works with Windows, so I wouldn't say it works everywhere. Reply
Check101 - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkOnly reason I take Google Drive over SkyDrive is being able to work with group members on a document simultaneously and have a chatbox and edit in real time. SkyDrive's collaboration and sharing options are much fewer. Otherwise, I just use Gmail and Google Calendar, and even those aren't that good. :P Reply
A5 - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkBecause MS sells the group stuff as Sharepoint, which is part of Office. Reply
RannXeroxx - Sunday, November 24, 2013 - linkYou can live edit with Office Web App and it even allows users of full Office to join in the editing. Just login to a SkyDrive account and have at it. And using your Outlook.com account you can message via skype, facebook, or MS messager. Reply
trane - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkCompletely agreed. I was a Google user myself, but after switching to Microsoft, their ecosystem for the basic stuff is simply far suprior. Office, Outlook, Skype, Skydrive, Bing apps, Xbox Music simply fulfill my needs far better than anything from Google or Apple.
The only thing that Google does better is Maps - and that has apps like Gmaps, and of course, Google Maps website works fine in IE11. If you are a Gmail user, the Windows 8.1 Mail app is pretty good too, but of course, works best with an Outlook account. And arguably, photos with Google+, but who uses Google+ anyway? Reply
EnzoFX - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkInteresting. I've found every service I use of theirs is subpar. Reply
Papaspud - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkYou will find what you seek........... Reply
RannXeroxx - Friday, November 29, 2013 - linkIn what way is either Outlook.com or MS Office Web Apps "sub-par" to Gmail or Google Docs? I do love me some Google Voice, that service just rules but not sure how much longer Google will offer that for free. Reply
Da W - Monday, October 21, 2013 - link1- I use both MS and Google services on my surface (pro) and android phone (and dropbox). I do prefer MS bundle overall. I find also that its a generation thing, most aged 30-40Y tend to prefer MS while the younger generation tend to hate MS (and choose Google).
2- Every google services, facebook, twiter, most "apps" are accessible in their internet version via ie11 and pinable on the start screen. In fact i think the lack of apps on the Windows store is a non-issue. On my android phone, i use mostly apps and almost never use the chrome browser. On my surface it's the opposite, i use almost no apps and do everything i need in the browser. (working in the browser is also the point of google chrome, so it's not a bas thing).
I think the # of app issue is overrated.
3- Agreed you can put Windows RT in the same class as google chrome, functionnality wise. That is: a limited OS that can't do what other mature OSes can. Reply
Wolfpup - Thursday, October 31, 2013 - linkIt is kind of Microsoft's version of a Chromebook, BUT it still does more. It still has local programs (even if you can only get them through the store). It still has much more of a real file system and has printer (and I think even scanner now?) support, etc. Reply
RannXeroxx - Friday, November 29, 2013 - linkActually I think you have it wrong. Its people in their late 20s or mid 30s that seem to hate MS but younger people, just like they don't connect to the cold war or the fear of the USSR, they don't connect with the Microsoft Monopoly of the 90's and think of MS as XBox and WP8. Reply
prophet001 - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkGood post sri_tech. Reply
hoboville - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkSorry, but that's an apples and oranges comparison. Chrome vs. Windows isn't the issue. It's Windows RT vs. Windows x86. With RT you get a gimped version of Windows that relies on the M$ Store for apps if you go with RT. If you go with Pro, you pay out the face for a device that is simply a super light, small touch-screened laptop. The great thing about Windows was that it could run a bajillion different x86 programs...not with RT though.
Ok, so I'll pay $800 for a Pro? For $700, you can get a Haswell laptop with full x86 features (not gimped ARM derpness) on the Windows platform. You'll get the same battery life, a bigger screen, more storage space, the ability to upgrade, and more RAM. Don't forget the fact it has a real keyboard.
As Anand said: "When we first posted about ASUS' T100, common feedback was that users would be willing to pay more for an even better device. A Bay Trail Surface 2 could've been that device." That's exactly my point, the RT could have waited 3-4 months ditched Tegra and gone to Bay Trail, which is extremely efficient, more powerful, and is x86. For $500 a full x86 tablet with Windows 8 would be a bombshell. It would have most of the features of a laptop while being a tablet. However, M$ is more concerned about roping people in to the M$ Store where they can cash out on apps BECAUSE the RT is a closed platform. They want you to get RT because it means they can milk you for most cash. If you want x86 they will charge you out the wazoo because they know once there, you can use any program you want. Reply
trip1ex - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkI don't think people want Windows x86 tablets. I think people want to ditch Windows. :) Reply
kyuu - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkYou're confusing "people" with "you".
Why should I (or people) want to ditch Windows? What does iOS or Android offer that Windows doesn't? As far as I can tell it's nothing but a regression in features either way. OSX? I've used it and had the option for years. Still not interested. Linux? I can see the appeal, but again, I've used it and had the option for years. Nothing has changed that makes it more appealing than Windows for me or your average user.
ChromeOS? Don't make me laugh.
You want to avoid the malware situation that ignorant users get into on their Windows machines? Windows RT works for that. People who need more out of their OS than WinRT gives them should know enough to avoid malware in the first place. Reply
Hrel - Friday, October 25, 2013 - linkHe didn't say google apps were better, he said it depends on which apps you prefer. Reply
theduckofdeath - Wednesday, October 30, 2013 - linkChrome OS does support touch screens. The Pixel has a touch ditto.
And just because Microsoft has services, it is not unanimous with them being of equal quality. Personally, I find Google Docs to be more accessible despite the obvious lack of many features. There's no point in having an advanced online Office service, if it's not as simple to use. Reply
thebeastie - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkLooks pretty decent, I would feel good about recommending this to my clueless relatives who click and install every single web ad that pops up saying its going to "Improve system performance by %300" and installs garbage and maybe even something that attempts to rob them blind.
With RT OS I feel assured that won't happen and they can sit and doodle in Office all day and be safe. Reply
Braumin - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkI'd say this is almost the perfect device then. The app situation is not as good as iOS obviously, but most people want email, facebook, twitter, and a browser. Maybe a couple others. This will do all of that well without any of the virus worries, and it'll do other stuff really well too. Reply
paulbram - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkEXACTLY! It seems like everyone who reviews these types of devices assumes it was built for the techiest of techies. In reality, this is the "PC" that could probably serve 99% of the people out there. You can't mess it up, and really offers you exactly what you are already doing on your old PC. This is an argument that no other ecosystem can offer, including full Win8/IOS or Android. RT is not a weakness people! It's exactly what I want to give to every one of my relatives! Reply
savagemike - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkActually I'm pretty sure you could do those things with an iPad quite easily and also have not much to worry about in the way of virus issues or maintenance.
You could also do all of it with a Chromebook if you aren't actually looking for a tablet interface and just want to do e-mail, facebook, twitter, and browser. And again - have few worries about virus issues or maintenance. Reply
eanazag - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkYou can't do real Office on Chromebook or iOS. I am not a fan of google docs. iOS still sucks when it comes to Office. Reply
Wolfpup - Thursday, October 31, 2013 - linkYep, can't do real office, no file system on iOS, and iOS doesn't support external monitors and mice (and only kinda-sorta supports key boards). Reply
Daniel Egger - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkNo, not being able to install any regular software is a huge problem for 99% of mankind. In essence Windows RT reduces the capabilities of the device to Office and Web and media consumption. Android and IOS do not suffer from the same problem because they both have a decent store where good applications can be found for a decent price while the Windows store really is a buzzkill. Reply
ESC2000 - Saturday, October 26, 2013 - linkFor one thing the app selection is drastically improved now compared to a year ago but also web and media consumption are the primary uses of tablets so I'm not so sure being limited to that is so terrible, especially considering the advantages that surface 2 brings: it can actually replace the laptop and tablet of a casual user since it offers the desktop and office (fir free no less). The apps, 99.99% of which are probably downloaded by less than 10 people, will come. If you're a specialty user or a power user, surface 2 is not for you but the vast majority of people are not, and this is a cheap (rather than buying a laptop) aesthetically-pleasing device that can serve all their needs.
Now that I'm thinking about it the price on this thing is pretty good. .. you can get it for less than an ipad which has very limited functionality in comparison (basically = large ipod touch). Granted you probably want the 64 GB - although it accommodates external storage - and the keyboard, which makes it less reasonable. Reply
Wolfpup - Thursday, October 31, 2013 - linkiOS and Android are still terrible compared with real Windows, and no amount of "apps" replaces Office and a real file system and the ability to use an external mouse, keyboard, and monitor. Reply
Daniel Egger - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkI feel you. My grandpa grandpa manages to install that crap faster than you can say "don't do that!" over and over again... Not even the usual anti-crapware software helps. However Win RT is not a cure since it doesn't allow him to install his MUST HAVE 1000+ best card games... and since the store is *really* slim on cardgames. Reply
kyuu - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkWhat the heck kind of esoteric card games is he playing that you can't find an app on the Windows Store? Reply
Daniel Egger - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkHave you actually looked around in the Store? Half a dozen Solitaire clones and a few Poker games but that's about it. He prefers playing more exotic Solitaire versions, Skat, Schafkopf, Doppelkopf, Bridge -- in a nutshell anything that's not Klondike or Poker and you wouldn't believe how many CDs and DVDs with Windows games he has that actually contain hundreds to thousands *unique* card games. Reply
Wolfpup - Thursday, October 31, 2013 - linkI'm SERIOUSLY considering buying Surface 2 for exactly this reason, BUT I'm still paranoid she's going to be able to break it, install malware from the Windows store or SOMETHING... Reply
chizow - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkReally wish there was a Bay Trail-T in this Surface 2 chassis, I'd pay $500 for that in a heartbeat for the full x86 Win8.1 support. I still feel Surface Pro 2 is too expensive for what it is, but Windows RT just isn't flexible enough with app support to drop to the ARM-based Surface 2.
Instead I'll probably look at the Asus Transformer T100 instead. Reply
Braumin - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkOn the last go around, I would have agreed with you. The Surface RT should have come with Clovertrail - it was faster than Tegra 3, and the app store was pretty much empty on day 1.
Now though, I have an use a Surface RT (just upgraded to 8.1) and honestly I don't think x86 is really needed in this kind of device. The desktop is not great with touch, nor with something this small. The app store is way better than it was now. The graphics performance of Tegra 4 is way better than Bay Trail too. CPU performance is still lower of course.
Also, this go around there seems to be some excellent choices on the OEM side which are all using Bay Trail, so if a guy wants x86, there's plenty of choice! The Dell Venue Pro 11 looks excellent, and I'm interested in seeing how the 8" tablets do. The price is certainly right from both Dell and Lenovo. Last year, the OEMs didn't know what to make so everything they made did flips and twists, and no one really made a good tablet. Reply
stanwood - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkBraumin, you touch on exactly the issue I'm facing in choosing an inexpensive tablet for my mother. Like most people, she is not shopping cross-platform. It's going to run Windows. But should it be a Surface 2 with Tegra 4 or maybe a Venue Pro 11 with Bay Trail? While I appreciate the performance comparison with ARM tablets here I hope we see a Bay Trail table review with comparisons to Surface 2. Reply
Braumin - Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - linkIt's a tough call I would wait and see what the Venue Pro 11 looks like. The RT side though is perfect for people who don't need to run x86 apps. It's going to get no viruses, it won't get bloated over time. They won't be able to install junk in the browser or system tray that slows the machine down and kills the battery.
Personally I'd get a Surface 2, or possibly a Lumia 2520. They cost a bit more but the quality of the Surface is really at the top end. Reply
heelo - Monday, October 21, 2013 - link"I'd love to see Surface 2 with type cover retail for $399, I feel like at that price point it'd be at least a competitive sell."
Part of me thinks that MS needs to stay the course here with the "premium tablet as budget laptop" approach that they've adopted with the Surface RT models. I feel like the "one device instead of two" marketing pitch requires a premium angle, and I think that's the build quality and fit and finish. With this approach, MS doesn't have the same luxury the Android competitors had in being able to undercut the iPad by actually selling less device (not to mention the fact that MS needs to run the program with legitimate P&L considerations, rather than zero-margin strategic market initiatives like the Nexus and Kindle programs).
Yet another part of me agrees with Anand, and believes that "Surface + cover for $399" should be a design requirement for Surface 3.
Perhaps the answer is for MS to create a Nexus-like program where they partner with certain OEMs and have them produce $299-level 10" RT devices that have their own (presumably less robust) kickstands and incorporate the Surface keyboard cover connectors? It may not be possible to produce something viable at that price point today, but maybe next summer? Reply
flyingpants1 - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkWell price competition is pretty important. At $399 it would compete price wise with the Nexus 10, and $100 cheaper than an iPad, maybe then some people would actually buy it. Reply
savagemike - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkWith a type cover then probably closer to $200 cheaper and I think that is where they'd need to be. Reply
savagemike - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkThe problem is that the Surface with keyboard cover is pretty much the same money as an iPad with any number of keyboard covers which are available for it. It might come in $30 less or so but that is not enough to drive decisions. And chances are more than high that in a week Apple is going to launch a new ipad which will surely have something new.
The only reason to recommend a surface to anyone over an iPad is Office and honestly I think MS overestimates the value of Office to most consumers. Unless you need it for work or it is required for school then it really is not needed. If you do need Office for work then there is a decent chance you will be sporting a laptop or Surface Pro. If for school then maybe. But I think you've found a pretty small market there.
End of the day the only thing which will help them with this round of Surface and RT is that they are probably clever enough not to build so many up front. So the write-down will not be as big at the end of this cycle.
MS has deep pockets though and if this segment is important to them then they'll be back. Reply
zepi - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkI don't really see desktop as "being a side" in Windows 8.x. I see it actually existing solely because MS has not have enough time to create an adequate Office replacement for Modern UI. I wouldn't be surprised if it was removed completely once they have that sorted out.
MS tried for more than a decade to bring touch to desktop. It has failed miserably, because it actually seems to be impossible while maintaining backwards compatibility with WIN32 GUI-components. They've come to a conclusion (that I share), that the only way to really bring touch to Windows is to bring it in separate to the desktop and start from a clean slate.
None of the successful modern touch-centric operating systems builds on top of WIMP paradigm or on top of legacy software developed for it. Mostly because WIMP just fundamentally seems to be incompatible with touchscreen (no pointer, no pixel-perfect clicks etc.) and I don't see MS being able to circumvent that. And they've seen it by themselves, so they created something new from scratch to actually make touch feasible. I see WinRT being out there because MS wants to enforce developers to create new versions of their UI's for Windows.
If developers won't create ModernUI version of Windows apps, Windows will die a slow death in consumer space within a decade or so. Only way to keep private people using Windows in this touch-screen (post-pc) era is to make using it as convenient and fun as with competing platforms. And for most people Windows desktop with desktop-apps is almost the exact opposite of fun and easy. It's all work and tedious managing of files, updates & anti-virus applications.
People seem to really enjoy using their touchscreen devices compared to regular computers. I guess it's mostly because interface to applications and data just seems so much more intuitive. In private life most of us just don't want to use computing devices. We just want to buy concert tickets, communicate with our friends, share our experiences of the every-day life and consume some entertainment. Some of us also enjoy creating stuff, but even then we just want the device to melt away between our vision and the end result. And allow for easy sharing of the end results. Reply
G Davidson - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkVery good post. The whole trouble with x86 windows is all the hassle of maintaining it. Half the time when I'm shutting down my laptop it takes 30 minutes to install various 'updates' that bring no benefit to me as a user other than protection from security flaws or hidden functionality for things I'll never be doing with it. That and the endless fiddling has no place on a tablet.
The stark choice Windows faces in the consumer space is innovate to a usable paradigm or slowly die. Being the second or even third choice is equivalent to such a death for a company like Microsoft that produces little hardware.
Really a 'better' windows x86 tablet with new Atom processors is an attempt to resurrect the Netbook. Sure, many would love one to supplement their main PC, but it won't be much fun and will require lots of user maintenance, while still being too slow for heavy software designed for a 'real PC'. Hearing the graphics are low-powered makes it poor for gaming, too. Certainly, it would make for a great productivity device, except for photo and video editing that would be much slower on it.
Microsoft really need to make something like Windows RT that has specialized apps that work well on the low-powered base, stripping away the cobwebs of background processes and backwards compatibility with things their users don't need. If these same apps can work on mainstream Windows 8.1 etc, then all the better. Reply
ESC2000 - Saturday, October 26, 2013 - linkSo I assume you foresee such a bleak future for OSX as well?
Really though all you're saying is that dealing with the interface and upkeep of a more powerful and capable OS is more complicated and effortful, which is not surprising....windows 8 and OSX are not as simple to handle as ios or Android but they also do a whole lot more. For some people the limited functionality of ARM tablet OSes may be sufficient, but for most I'd wager it's not if only because currently you can't even view more than one window at a time on ios/android devices (other than notes and surface RT). Even people who are not power users need to be able to view two things simultaneously.
Anyway I think it is way too early to predict the demise of microsoft. They see that the future is in one or maybe two devices that combine the functions of desktops, laptops, tablets, phones, gaming consoles, and possibly wearables. Windows 8 is their first stab at an OS that could work on such devices, and it will get better. Also tens of millions (hundreds of millions?) of consumers own devices with windows 8 and are growing accustomed to it despite its shortcomings. Most of them will continue to choose Windows machines bc of familiarity and cost. That's not to mention the MS's enterprise stronghold that is definitely not going anywhere (W8 is not so great on that front but the complete lack of alternatives makes Windows the only choice). They are also increasingly making hardware. What I'm saying is they are innovating by shifting away from the purely desktop paradigm and for a first attempt I think they've done a good job and exposed a lot of the market.
I am bullish about the future of MS and about the future of Google and Apple as well. I don't have some inscrutable hatred toward any of them the way many people on tech sites do against MS. Reply
Braumin - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkThis looks like a great improvement over the Surface RT.
I thought it was a good review, but Anand, you need to drop it with the Google stuff. You're comment "but in the case of a Chromebook you arguably have better integration of Google services" is of course true, but the Surface obviously has perfect integration with the Microsoft services, which, other than maps, are at least as good if not better.
And Google is the one to blame here they simply refuse to support any MS platforms anymore, which is too bad because I used to like and use Google services a lot. Now I just avoid them. Luckily I don't miss them.
And the Chromebook is WAY more limited in the applications it can run. Windows RT 8.1 is still a real OS unlike Chrome.
Anyway this looks great I'm happy to see the better display and better performance, plus the kickstand. I'd say MS fixed everything that they really needed to with regards to what they can achieve - obviously the substandard apps are something that hopefully will be fixed over time. It's a whole lot better than what it was a year ago that's for sure, but certainly not where I expected it to be. The Bing apps are amazing though which is a good start. Reply
OoklaTheMok - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkYeah, I'm growing quite tired of the Chromebook talk. It's more restrictive than iOS, fewer apps than WebOS and most apps are just glorified web browser shortcuts. It doesn't even support multitasking... seriously? And some people want to talk it up like it's the bee's knees. Reply
AnandTechUser99 - Monday, October 21, 2013 - link"There is an alternative solution to this entire problem however. I can't help but feel like if Microsoft threw Intel's Bay Trail in the Surface 2 chassis that a number of users might come to a completely different conclusion about the device. When we first posted about ASUS' T100, common feedback was that users would be willing to pay more for an even better device. A Bay Trail Surface 2 could've been that device. "
I couldn't agree more! Reply
snajk138 - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkThey could do a Surface RT 2 with ARM, a Surface 2 with Atom and a Surface Pro 2 with Haswell. Reply
teiglin - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkI'd love to see MSM8974 in the tablet performance charts--its absence is quite notable, and while the selection of 8974-toting Android tablets is pretty small now, it will only grow. If you think it'd be too weird to include Note 3/G2 results (I wouldn't mind), didn't you test Qualcomm's MDT? Not to mention, Bench doesn't even seem capable of doing the sort of comparisons I'd really like to see there. Reply
AmdInside - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkI am going to buy this when I find a coupon that gets the Surface2 closer to $399. I think its a great iPad replacement for productivity. I actually wish it had Amazon services, not Google. Only Google service I would want is Google Chrome. I just am not a fan of IE11 as a desktop or tablet browser. Reply
flyingpants1 - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkMy single question for Anand: is there a single reason to get this over the Asus T100 for $349? Reply
teiglin - Monday, October 21, 2013 - link1080p screen, less-cramped keyboard, kickstand, higher-quality chassis. I mean, I'm not personally going to buy either one, but there are certainly reasons. Reply
WaltFrench - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkI definitely like all the color on the home screen and the background in the photo. Definitely not your drab gray from the Microsoft of yore. Reply
OneOfTheseDays - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkI played with the Surface 2 at the MSFT store for quite a bit and fell in love with it.
It's truly a beautiful amazingly engineered piece of hardware. There are no downsides to it other than the app selection, which is getting better every day. As MSFT begins to unify their store and APIs across their platforms I expect to see more developers hop onboard.
Going back to the iPad after using the Surface 2 is a let down. You are immediately aware how much of a toy OS iOS really is. Reply
macutmore - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkLighter than a Laptop, as good as or better performance than an Ultrabook, decent battery life with power cover. Why should I compromise by having to work, use, update & maintain three devices? It's not worth it. I'm going to spend less money & upgrade my old Desktop PC, Laptop & Tablet with a new Surface Pro. It's a no brainer, even though it really seems like a brain is required to realise it! No/ not enough Apps yet? Where are the apps in Windows 7? RT has no x86? Neither does iPad. At least it has explorer & you can navigate for file transfers from USB. If we were all using these today & Microsoft designed a hinged laptop as a new type of form factor, the screen would be annoyingly fixed, cumbersome with squeaky hinges & too bulky. We have been marketed & brand conditioned into feeling we can't have it all in one device, when it's becoming more & more obvious now that we can, & it could happen sooner than we think. It is advanced technology that likely makes successful brands, or the vendors of the high performance pieces, such as the thin high resolution touch screens & getting things small enough & making them thinner. Thats all advanced tech that wasnt available before. Reply
gnr219 - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkCan you explain why specifically, other than office, you feel iOS is toylike compared to RT ? Reply
kyuu - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkNo multitasking. Gimped web browser. No file browser. No USB support (accessories, external storage). Lack of configuration options for power users. Need I go on?
The aesthetics of the iOS7 update certainly doesn't help it feel less toy-like. Reply
Laxaa - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkI kind of want one, but I guess I/O performance leaves a lot to be desired. And the fact that it only has 2GB of RAM. Reply
SetiroN - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkthe surface 2 REALLY needed bay trail. Reply
mporter - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkThe problem with Surface is that it is not really good at anything. It fails as a tablet because it's too big, heavy and unwieldy. And it fails as a laptop because it's underpowered with a substandard keyboard and no trackpad..
Anyone considering this should just go with the undisputed king of tablets, the iPad (http://versus.com/en/microsoft-surface-2-vs-apple-... It's loads better and actually has a decent ecosystem in place! Reply
mporter - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkArgh, my link didn't work because of the bracket. It's to a comparison.. Here it is again - http://versus.com/en/microsoft-surface-2-vs-apple-... Reply
ancientarcher - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkThis is a great improvement over the original Surface. The huge increase on the GPU front obviously made it possible for MS to offer the higher resolution screen and along with a better CPU made it a lot smoother to use.
The king of tablets - yes. But then, no one talks about how ios is incompatible with OSX! It's only with MS that people expect 100/100 every time. Only if Windows RT had been compatible with the Windows Phone ecosystem. Then there would not be so much noise about the app ecosystem.
I am beginning to think how good a device this will be in a year or so, particularly if MS manages to merge the Windows Phone ecosystem with this (after all both run on ARM so should be theoretically possible). And yes, slightly lighter with better battery life needed. With a few more apps, this will be the perfect device. Reply
kyuu - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkHmm, let's see:
iPad 4 - 9.51" H, 7.31" W, .37" D
Surface 2 - 10.81" H, 6.79" W, .35" D
Surface 2 is thinner. It's longer but less wide due to the larger screen and 16:9 aspect ratio, which is better for pretty much everything except using it as an ereader. I don't see how it's "big and unwieldly" yet the iPad is magical. And then...
iPad 4 - 1.44 lbs.
Surafce 2 - 1.45 lbs.
I guess that extra .01 lbs. is all you need to make the difference between magical and heavy? Also I suppose you missed the part where Anand noted that, due to the weight distribution, the Surface 2 actually feels lighter in-hand.
Add in the fit & finish, the kickstand, and the facts that you have an actual honest-to-god USB port (3.0 no less!), a mini-HDMI out, and a much more fully featured OS with WinRT 8.1 than iOS will ever be, and I really can't see how the Surface 2 loses a value or specs comparison unless you're married to the iOS ecosystem. Reply
cheshirster - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkAnother half-assed review of MS product.
What about multitasking, storage options, external displays, browser capabilities (flash for example, on-site video playback), speakers, skyping comparison?
Why are those google services are so special so that one must care about them? Reply
Steinegal - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkAgree, you can still access Google services in your browser if you need it. You also get so many possibilities to connect any device you want through the USB port, like printers, scanners, mouse, keyboard, game controllers cameras etc. You also have a powerful multiuser environment something every android tablet that has a half assed implementation of gets a big plus for. For me it's the multitasking that seals the deal, my iPad is mostly used for Facebook, browsing and YouTube/Netflix, and the surface can do all of those at the same time. No more swapping app to reply to a message in Facebook, no more stopping the video to do a quick search for information. I might miss out on a few great apps, but mostly it's just games and I'm quite tired of all those pay2win games that seems to populate the appstores now. Reply
Gigaplex - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkMultitasking? The software doesn't really do a good job of supporting that. Reply
Daniel Egger - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkI have to disagree. While I don't give a rats ass about multitasking in a tablet (or phone) because the screen only allows modal operation anyway it works reasonably well even on the old RT. Almost too well because you'll only notice two Flash videos playing at the same time when the audio clashes. Reply
kyuu - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkI have to agree. There's too much focusing on comparing it 1-to-1 to an iPad or Google tab and Anand seems to miss or gloss over a lot of the the functionality.
1) Mentions the multitasking only in passing.
2) No mention of connecting accessories through the USB port, including external storage.
3) No mention of external display support, where you can actually EXTEND the display rather than simply mirroring it.
4) No mention of how the browser handles flash or works to bring up websites for Twitter or all those Google services that he complains are missing in the app store.
5) Not Surface 2 specific, but the quality of the speakers should be noted. Reply
cheshirster - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkWhat are the strong points of bringing in Bay Trail and "full" windows? Why we should even care? What exactly that "full" means in 10.6 inch tablet ? Reply
Qwertilot - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkIts a good question actually :) Even if MS did put an atom into these, they may well backport RT rather than full 8.1.
They rather badly need to drive the touch based eco system before these devices can make proper sense. Reply
Gigaplex - Monday, October 21, 2013 - link3rd party desktop applications, so you can actually use the device while you wait for useful Store apps to become available. Reply
Daniel Egger - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkThat's actually a big sucker. While some managed to compile desktop applications that can be used after a jailbreak I'd absolutely second the notion that this is something that needs proper Microsoft support, even if just in the form of proper compilation support with a hard signing requirement to prevent abuse. Reply
kyuu - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkWhat exactly are you unable to do versus an Android or iOS tab? Keep in mind WinRT has a fully featured web browser that can actually run flash, and any missing app probably has a fully functional website alternative. Reply
IUU - Monday, October 21, 2013 - link"Why we should even care?" We shouldn't actually, if current solutions were better than full windows, but they are not.
It may be hard for a lot to swallow, but full windows is in reality orders of magnitude more useful and sophisticated than the pathetic and overestimated apps of these "ecosystems". Even an ugly x86 virus is much more of a program than the overhyped android or peaches and oranges apps, that you may have to pay for as well, while in x86 you are freely and painlessly infected.
Mobile is useful but not the most important in home computing. Trying to give it false significance, you get carried away by vain analyses about the mechanics of the kickstand, the premium feeling and the aesthetics of the user interface; this is a regress because you get excited by things that were difficult to do 10 years ago. Instead of getting excited for the next REALLY BIG APP, that would require 10s of gigabytes and several teraflops to run, you get excited by things so basic they ve been inforporated in oses long ago. So, sorry that I can't share your fascination. Surface is a good tablet, as the ipad and the droids are, very good for basic functions, nothing more nothing less.
I would suggest Microsoft come out of the hypnosis about the post pc era and concentrate on really interesting things, like how we could use more powerful devices than today's desktops. Reply
Gambit2K - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkI missed parts like if miracast is available for surface 2, if it is how does it work, how much battery does it drain etc.
And didn't I read that twitter has launched an official app for RT about 1-2 months ago. Reply
Steinegal - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkSurface 2 does support Miracast, but I haven't seen any tests of it yet.
And twitter is available in the store :) Reply
UsernameAlreadyExists - Monday, October 21, 2013 - link"Google's Octane test is obviously best optimized for Chrome, and here we see solid performance although clearly behind the latest from Apple and Intel." Something wrong with the graph / this sentence, or am I reading the graph incorrectly? Reply
UsernameAlreadyExists - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkAh, the new stuff is missing from the graph. Reply
kyuu - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkThere's something wrong with the conclusion, since the Surface 2 clearly beats the iPad 4 in the Google Octane benchmark. Reply
Anand Lal Shimpi - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linker fixed, thanks! Reply
JB_Gator - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkI agree that the app situation is lacking but this isn't a huge issue for me anymore. Maybe I'm an atypical user, but I prefer light gaming in the phone context, along with to-do lists and other light/quick tasks. Also, most of the apps I'd be looking for are usually necessary due to lack of flash support in the browser.
For example: Would a Spotify app look a little cleaner? Sure. But I can listen to playlists through the website but not the app anyway (mobile apps require premium). I can't do this on my Nexus or iPad. A lot of video sites would require apps to if it weren't for this (ESPN, HBO, etc.), but not only can I watch them on the Surface, but if I wanted to, I can stream them to my TV (through xbox) out of the box with a few clicks.
I was with you until you suggested it should be $399 with a type cover. That would be ludicrously cheap. The iPad, which is it's closest competitor (for better or for worse) is $499 with no cover. Also, Apple doesn't offer keyboards on its smart covers (yet?).
At its current price of $50 cheaper than the iPad, with additional benefits (MS Office, USB, microSD, microHDMI-out for extended desktop, split-screen multitasking) and some tradeoffs (apps) it is a great deal already.
I feel like even matching the iPad at $499 with a touch cover would be shockingly cheap, especially for new hardware of this quality. (Also, way more reasonable/likely). Reply
Qwertilot - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkClosest competitor would be something like that Transformer book T100, which is seemingly 349 in its cheapest form, keyboard included. Yes S2 is nicer in a few ways so you could justify a relatively modest premium but nothing enormous.
I don't actually think the iPad/this stuff are in direct competition. Optimised for fairly different sort of uses. Reply
tipoo - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkDoes typing cause such load with the touch cover, or type cover too? If it's just the touch, I wonder how much that impacts battery life? Seems like regular keyboard typing shouldn't produce that much load.
Bummer that the Sunspider browser performance doesn't bear out anywhere else, I had hoped they pulled some crazy software wizadry to beat the A7 even with a slower SoC. Also makes me question how Intel showed off BT on IE11 to prove the A7 nearing it was just a matter of browsers, if IE11 just optimizes for sunspider. It still is a very fast browser though. I don't even mind using it, if not for lack of third party extensions. Reply
Daniel Egger - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkActually I suspect that most of the performance improvements are due to Windows RT 8.1 vs. 8.0 the original Surface RT was tested with. I've updated mine and it feels a lot faster (though it also has plenty of new bugs, especially in IE with flash videos). However I wonder why the article mentions the lack of speed of the Surface RT a couple of times but the bars in the graphs are missing. Also I'd like to suggest to retest the old RT with 8.0 and 8.1 and put those 2 extra bars in. Reply
domboy - Monday, October 21, 2013 - link"Without opening up classic desktop APIs to developers, we won't see alternative web browsers like Chrome or Firefox on Windows RT 8.1 either.
I can understand Microsoft's hesitation on this front (better control over the platform if you don't open it up), but I can't see a future where Windows RT is successful and Microsoft doesn't allow developers to access both sides of the platform."
Thank you!! This is unfortunately the real problem with Windows RT. Lots of people have said this same thing in forums, but maybe Microsoft will actually listen when Anand Lal Shimpi says it. I love my Surface RT, but the lock on the desktop APIs is going to be the doom of this OS. Why bother with it (customer or developer) when Intel tablets are going to be the same price, the same battery life, and able to do so much more? The Surface RT/2 hardware is REALLY nice, but the OS is a sad tale... and the "jailbreak" for RT 8.0 just further proves this point. Reply
isaacsou - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkPLEASE PLEASE!
Use also the metric system in the articles/reviews!!!
The readers outside US doesnt know (and dont want to know) what a lib or inch means!
Just put in parenthesis on the side
Thanks! Reply
A5 - Monday, October 21, 2013 - link2.2 lb = 1 kg
1 inch = 2.5 cm
They're not hard conversions, and you should memorize them if you're going to read a lot of American websites. Reply
MarcSP - Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - linkAnadtech.com is a pretty technical website that wants to be (is) international. It is only logical to use international units besides the local ones. I don't think that it would be a drawback for anyone. In what grounds would you oppose?
Please Anandtech, do it! :-) Reply
MarcSP - Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - linkEven Engadget does it! (And they put international units first. See: http://www.engadget.com/2013/10/22/ipad-air-ipad-m... Reply
azazel1024 - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkYes, if this had a Baytrail in it, it would be a must buy for me.
That said, the price would still be too high. $549 for 64GB PLUS having to spend money on the touch cover puts the price wayyyy too high. That is, what? around $670 for the thing plus touch cover?
Nah ah.
If the touch cover were included, and it had a z3770 in it and 3 or 4GB of memory (keeping in mind that Windows 8.1 32-bit is the only connected sleep supporting version of Windows right now) and the price was $549, then I'd probably buy it in a heart beat.
Maybe I don't speak for most, but I feel like $500 is generally more or less the ceiling on what I'd ever consider spending on a tablet. Above that it is getting too close to ultrabook territory. Yes they are still vastly different devices, but looking at the Surface 2, tossing in another $200 and you can find many examples of very good 11.6-13 ultrabooks in that price range with very good hardware, screens, etc and vastly faster CPUs and GPUs in them.
Tablets by and large are content consumption devices with some minor productivity work. A dock (T100) or type cover (Surface 2) help out with that minor productivity work a lot. However, at roughly $670 for the "kitted out" Surface 2, its too expensive to replace a low end 11.6" ultrabook (more expensive than a number of them) and it doesn't work as well for the productivity bit. If you mostly want it for content consumption...sure the screen is nice, but I don't think it beats out most of the $300-500 10" android tablets, nor does it beat out something like the T100 by much (in terms of being spiffy for content consumptioN)...and NOT by more than 50% extra cost.
I think that is the issue that MS is going to continue having. Windows RT is just damned limited and the hardware is nice, but with the price and the limitations of RT it just isn't compelling.
At $50 less with a free type cover included and it might be in the compelling zone for a lot of people, but it isn't. Reply
azazel1024 - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkI can't speak to skydrive, as I haven't touched in since I upgraded to 8.1 yesterday. However, in upgrading I found two things.
Yes, it requires a Microsoft account. Stupid, but it does. Once you upgrade, you can "downgrade" the microsoft connected account, to a local account again. Its under the metro settings for user accounts. Find the user account and if you poke around in the settings there is an option to change it to a local account. It gets pissy with you trying to do it, but it WILL let you do it.
Next, Lucid Logix Virtu MVP does not work under Windows 8.1. Or at least it doesn't work with my AMD 5670 and i5-3570. 8.1 upgraded fine, but after initial boot it cratered after 60 seconds and then boot cycled everytime it finished loading and was about to bring up the start screen. I managed to boot to safe mode fine, on a lark I tried reinstalling Virtu MVP. I then booted as normal just fine. It finished installing Virtu MVP and then proceeded to flash the BSOD for about 200ms and then boot cycled again.
Nothing I have tried (other than uninstalling it and running with either just the dGPU or iGPU) has worked. Reply
trip1ex - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkEh I don't see people clamoring for small tablet screen with a mediocre keyboard just so they can use Office. I don't see people wanting Windows on their tablet either. They want to ditch Windows as much they want to ditch the cable company.
I think tablets are misunderstood my most still. Reply
kyuu - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkYou're right: tablets are misunderstood by most. Apple and Google have fooled people into thinking tablets should be oversized smartphones. Microsoft instead presents WinRT, which offers much more functionality than iOS or Android, and all people can focus on is the app store selection, which is the one and only point iOS and Android have over WinRT. Reply
DocForker - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkI love my gen 1 surface RT with 8.1 and can't wait for the Surface 2! I run apps side by side - the new Facebook is great, or I can have twitter in one panel and browse the web in the other half. OneNote that syncs between my phone, my wifes phone and my surface and my home and work desktops is amazing. Being able to edit a Word doc on my desk and then have it show up immediately in my recent list of Office Docs on the surface is awesome. Sending YouTube video (or streaming audio) from an IE browser window (using the devices charm) to my XBOX and having it play full screen high definition on my 60" plasma - all while browsing Facebook or reading the news and tracking Twitter is just something I don't think you can do anyplace else. What about playing Halo Spartan Assault on the surface and then sending it to the TV - and hooking up an XBOX controller and a Bluetooth headset. Or hooking up an external monitor with Word & Excel running on it - giving that to a person with wireless keyboard & mouse to work homework on and then having a second person playing a touch game wordament on the surface itself? Try that on an iPad or Chromebook or android tablet.
I think the problems with most of these reviewers is that they just don't know what these devices are capable of. They are so locked in to a restrictive IOS ecosystem that they fail to see the possibilities with these Surface tablets.
http://s188.photobucket.com/albums/z258/tlforker/?... Reply
InspectHerGadget - Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - linkYou hit the nail on the head but then the restrictive iOS system does all they want so obviously they're not going out to buy an XBOX, a Windows 8 Desktop, a Windows 8 Phone then a Surface and then learn to tie it all together when they probably have AppleTV, iPad, iPhone and possibly a Mac in the house. Once you get into an ecosystem then I would say it really doesn't matter which one it is. iOS has a huge head start in this area so Microsoft have to pull out the stops to catch up and it isn't easy to get people to switch if they're happy with what they've got. Reply
ElBurro - Monday, October 21, 2013 - link"but there's still no good Twitter client, no amazing IM client, and of course you don't get good integration of Google services anywhere (outside of leveraging Mail for Gmail access)."
I hope you realize that in Microsoft is trying to eliminate the desktop especially for ARM. There is not much chance of the Win32 API opening up. In fact for it maybe shut down completely for Windows 10 or Windows 11 even for the pro versions of the OS. Reply
ElBurro - Monday, October 21, 2013 - linkoops sorry I meant to put this quote
"but I can't see a future where Windows RT is successful and Microsoft doesn't allow developers to access both sides of the platform Reply
Death666Angel - Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - link"It wasn't too long ago that Microsoft was charging hundreds of dollars for new OS revisions, but with Apple and Google redefining what users come to expect from both cost and frequency of OS updates, Microsoft had to change."
Isn't 8.1 more of a service pack than a new OS revision? And MS has never charged for those. Reply
lilmoe - Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - linkFunny how much lower fps we're getting in the offscreen tests knowing that both are rendered at 1080p... Says a lot about the reliability of that benchmark. What's that overhead from? Reply
Tarrant64 - Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - linkThere were statements about a new 2nd-gen charge for the Surface 2 but I have yet to see any pictures of what those changes are. It seems everything else was covered but it was hyped briefly that it would be worth buying. I'm curious if it is, because I hate my current charger. Any chance the article(s) can be updated to show the specific changes there? Reply
bull2760 - Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - linkJust purchased my Surface 2 and LOVE IT! I did previously own the 1st gen Surface RT but I sold it on Graigs list when I saw this one being released. 2nd generation is much faster at loading everying thing. Almost as fast as you click them the office suite apps open, big difference right off the bat between the 1st gen. Now that it includes Outlook you really can't beat this device for easy travel allowing you to take your work along with you. The new back lit TYPE keyboard is awesome. Way more responsive than the touch keyboard I sold with my old RT. I added a sandisk 64GB microSD and now I have 128GB of storage built in. I carry this around with me in the office as I work on employee computers so that I can answer email on the fly. Could not be happier with the purchase absolutely love the new Surface 2. Reply
Serr - Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - link"Although IE11 does a relatively good job on the touch front, I find that heavy multitasking with IE11 on Surface 2 can result in a lot of hangs and crashes within tabs or the application itself."
There goes the truth! You don't have that even on iPad 2. Reply
Wall-Swe - Saturday, October 26, 2013 - link@Serr Well that's a lie! My iPhone 4 is crashing almost everyday when using Safari.
@Anandtech How come you only got 8hour of battery out of the Surface 2? Engadget got 14hours 22minuties, it its the best score they have had of any tablet! Reply
MarcSP - Sunday, October 27, 2013 - linkYes, that discrepancy makes no sense. Or Anandtech's device had some problem, or Engadget made a big mistake in the method they used. I know that of these options seems much more likely than the other ;-), but without more testing there is no way to know for sure. Reply
whatsa - Friday, November 01, 2013 - linkTheres video and video
I can tell you I dont get the numbers stated with a BD rip....
if its close then thats good enough for me as I have yet to see a standard for this
testing used across the board. (I may be wrong so if you need to shoot aim for the leg) Reply
MarcSP - Sunday, October 27, 2013 - linkIt is specially weird that Surface 2 got less battery life for video than Surface 1, when MS said battry life shoudl be 25% better and that now, unlike before, they are using the companion core for that task. Reply
TechFan1 - Sunday, October 27, 2013 - linkIf this had bay trail inside I would already own one. Really disappointed they went with Tegra 4 :( Reply
melomania - Sunday, November 03, 2013 - linkWhy in the ipad air review, does this machine only score a 750 in contrast ratio and here it is over 1000? Reply
JBVertexx - Monday, November 11, 2013 - linkI'm thinking of picking up one of these for my 7th grade son. He's had a Nexus 7 since that first came out. He uses that mostly for gaming. But this year, he needs a "device" for school. The Nexus 7 hasn't really been up for class note-taking, etc. Thinking this would be the perfect solution. Reply
Hoekie - Sunday, November 24, 2013 - linkGreat review, but fails on the search for apps.
Like telling us that there no Twitter app, make me worry you did not get a good look at the Store and have setting set to 'easy to find local apps'
The official Twitter app for instance in the Windows Store for quit a time now. Nice thing also is that it can be snapped to the left. A link in a tweet makes the browser open that link. All on the same screen. Killer! Reply


text:
Conte crayons with their 6x6mm cross-section offer a range of 84 colours, 14 tones of which are specifically designed for sketching. The crayons are manufactured using natural pigments (iron oxide, carbon black, titanium dioxide), clay (kaolin) and a binder (cellulose ether), which are then baked after being extruded and dried. The degree of baking varies the grade (hardness:H/ softness:B) of the black and white crayons. Conté crayons can be held in many ways, which allows for a multitude of different angles. An example is using the "flat edge" of the crayon and varying the pressure (the greater the pressure on the crayon, the denser the colour that will be obtained). By holding the crayon upright or slightly slanted, fine and accurate lines can be created.
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U.S. Farmers and Ranchers Alliance (USFRA) has stepped up not just to meet the challenge presented by the animated film "A Pig's Tale," but to provide a real-world look at activities on a modern hog farm.
USFRA released a nearly four-minute video-- "An accurate portrayal of today's pig care"—on Wednesday. It features Malcolm DeKryger, vice president of swine production and management at Belstra Milling, in Northern Indiana.
At least in part, the USFRA effort was in response to the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) animated video "A Pigs Tale." It targets children and focuses on sow housing and tail docking, a USFRA release points out. Both videos were released on Food Day.
"The truth is that farmers and ranchers of all sizes are committed to the humane treatment of their animals," USFRA said. It points to the HSUS video as using "emotion and children's entertainment unfairly to manipulate the American public."
USFRA underscored the fact that, "Well cared for animals, in cooperation with veterinarians, are paramount to a safe and healthy food supply. Farmers and ranchers use a variety of animal husbandry practices, housing strategies and healthcare to decrease disease risk and promote animal health."
The group says farmers and ranchers, "recognize consumers' concerns regarding animal care and understand there is no one perfect system." USFRA further points out that every day, farms across the nation implement innovative ideas and look for solutions for both themselves and the animals they raise. "The bottom line is that today's farm animals live healthier lives than ever before," USFRA says.


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Toshiba 500GB USB 2.0
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text:
Andover New Street bounced back from Saturday's humiliating defeat by basement side Hayling United by beating Laverstock and Ford 1-0 at Foxcotte Park on Tuesday night.
A goal from Jack Hutchings ten minutes from time was enough to take all three points but they still stay at the bottom with Hayling having a better goal difference.
New Street boss Matt Styles played half an hour of the game against Laverstock despite completing the London Marathon two days before and said afterwards: "It was a huge comparison to Saturday when we weren't anywhere near the races.
'Last night they worked for each other and deserved it."
Hutchings' winner came after strong work from young striker Charlie Waite and leaves Street with four games to go starting with a trip to East Cowes tomorrow and Amesbury Town at home on Monday.
Styles then has the unenviable task of getting a squad together to go to US Portsmouth next Thursday before the final match at Hythe and Dibden tomorrow week.
Dale Peters is back in the squad having been away for much of the season but Prince Xhamela is suspended for the first three games.
On Saturday four goals from Brad Sylvester and two from Scott Hamilton gave the seasiders only their fourth win of the season as they leapfrogged New Street who now take over the wooden spoon position.