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Home > Wellness > Health Library > Warts: Electrosurgery and Curettage
Electrosurgery is a procedure that involves burning the skin that
contains a
wart. This is done with an electrical charge sent
through the tip of a needle, drying and burning off the wart tissue. The skin
around the wart must first be numbed with a painful
local anesthetic injection.
Electrosurgery can be used for a single wart or a few warts but not
for large areas of warts. It often leaves a scar, and warts can return after
Curettage is the surgical removal (scraping or cutting) of wart
tissue using a scalpel or a small, sharp, spoon-shaped tool. This procedure may
be painful and can cause scarring. Curettage usually requires local anesthetic,
except in the case of filiform warts, which have only a small connection to the
skin. Curettage is a quick treatment to remove warts, but recurrence of warts
is common.
Electrosurgery and curettage are sometimes used together to treat
large warts and increase the chance of successful wart removal.
Health Tools help you make wise health decisions or take action to improve your health.
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Action for endangered species underpins all the Center's programs. Our work has won direct Endangered Species Act protection for 440 rare animals and plants, as well as millions of acres of critical habitat to help those animals and plants survive and recover.
The clickable species lists on these pages are not comprehensive rosters of those we've protected; we're adding species all the time.
If you don't find the species you're looking for on our lists, try our site's search engine.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Hi All,
I have a super simple question on something I don't understand:

Home

What is the purpose of the id="here" ?
I ran across it in a simple menu and I understand the reference, but I don't know what the id="here" is for.
Thanks ahead.
It's basically there in case you want to apply special styling the that link (such as making is a different color from all other links). But on its own it will do nothing unless there are some styles relating to it in your CSS, or perhaps if you are targeting that link with JavaScript.
Thanks for the reply. I looked around in the styles for the site and the javascript and there was no matching id. I was 99% sure it was a css id, but what is weird is that if I remove it changes the color of the menu item - indicating a style or script somewhere....I checked all the links and includes through my IDE and visually and I don't see anything referenced. I have been looking for awhile because I would like to change the way it displays and figured I would just change the ID instead of replacing it. Oh well, it's no biggie to replace it because it isn't used anywhere else.
You can easily see what styles are applying to an element. If using Chrome, right click on the link and choose Inspect Element. It will show you the HTML of the element and the CSS that applies to it, and where those styles are in your style sheet.
You can also do the same in Opera, Safari, and in Firefox by downloading the Firebug plugin.
If you are having problems, feel free to post a link to your site and we can check for you.
You left out the possibility of it being the destination of another link elsewhere on the same page  or on another page
Yes, good point.
This is very odd and here is why. This has to be a style (there are only two stylesheets with about 2500 lines so looking through it is not fun) but I use PHPStorm with CSS Xfire which invokes Firebug. Code inspect reveals nothing, there is no CSS preprocessor, but a bunch of includes and Javascript. I have no idea where the style is coming from at this point, but I replaced the style and it worked.How can this be? There are no styles on this page, I can find every other style I have looked for easily. Because I couldn't find this style I started wondering if "here" was some sort of predefined style. This program is running in its own CMS so.... I don't know. My lack of experience is showing. I can't really show this, but I thank you for your help and suggestions and, in essence, the problem is solved. Regardless, I feel like I wasted 3 hours chasing my tail (and still have the nagging feeling I missed something obvious)
IE's developer mode is quite good too. Press F12, give focus to the left hand panel of the developer window by clicking it, and then press Ctrl+B (or click the arrow which is the first of a list of icons). As you move your mouse around the screen a blue border will show around the element you are hovering over. Click the element (the link) and it will show you what style has been applied and what file applied it. If it doesn't, press the refresh button and try again.
IE's developer mode is really useful for this type of thing


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When: Thursday, August 22, 9:00 am – 12:30 pm | Where: Computer Lab, GTU Library
Facilitated by Dr. Jay Johnson, PSR Faculty
Laurie Isenberg at PSR pointed out this great article, Transition from Tradition: 9 Tips for successfully moving your face-to-face course online from eLearn magazine. It's filled practical information, particularly about how to communicate with online students. A great read! Thanks, Laurie.
Now you can simply drag a file from your computer into your course in Moodle. It is as simple as this:
Many faculty are making greater use of the GTU's Moodle facilities, both in fully online courses, and in "regular" face-to-face courses. Some of us started by simply uploading additional readings, and have been gradually branching out into discussion forums, audio and video recordings, and using the functions that Moodle provides for grading and group work. Some of us have taken courses, either through the GTU library or outside organizations. But effective use of Moodle depends most of all on clear thinking about our teaching outcomes and objectives, rather than on simply using the "bells and whistles" correctly. All interested faculty are invited to gather for a brown bag lunch and informal conversation about developing pedagogical approaches that make the most effective use of what Moodle can offer us as theological educators. Please come prepared to share your experiences, your questions, and your hopes.
Facilitated by Susanna Singer, CDSP Faculty | When: Tuesday August 20, 12:30 – 2:00 PM | Where: Mudd 102, PSR
Return to Online Learning Blog
Remember that great activity you want to add to your class on Moodle but need a reminder of how to work it? Want to browse your options and try out something new? Moodlerooms offers easy how-to guides--both videos and text--and detailed information in their Knowledge Base. There you can find out everything from how to do everything from setting up your gradebook to viewing what activities your students have participated in during the past week. To find the "Facilitate" section for instructors, follow the link above and then scroll down to the 3rd heading. You can also search the page for a specific activity or resource. Happy exploring!
Answer: 58,956. Question: How many separate posts did GTU users post in Moodle during the Spring 2013 semester. Surprised? At the GTU, many instructors include forums in our classes; after posting files, it is the way we use Moodle the most. But quantity, of course, is never enough. What makes for a vigorous online discussion that supports your learning objectives for a class? Simmons College has posted an online interview with professor Sarah Haavind about Facilitating Online Discussions.
Students show up for class these days with an array of electronics--smart phones, tablets, e-readers and computers. In his blog post, Taking Advantage of "Disruptive Technology" in the Classroom, Justin W. Marquis, Ph.D. offers some great suggestions about how to get students to use those devices productively in class, keeping their attention in the classroom. There are also a variety of activities, such as the choices feature, quizzes etc., in Moodle that you can use in the classroom.
PBS Learning Media has short videos and other resources specifically designed for use by educators that are drawn from PBS programs. Registering on the site and using the materials is free. In addition, they have relatively inexpensive professional development programs for teachers, including self-paced online classes.
by Justin Tanis | The right image invites viewers in and helps them deepen their understanding of the subject; it also helps students who learn best visually. There are some great sources for publicly available photographs that are free to use and that keep you on the right side of the copyright laws. Here are some strong sources:
by Justin Tanis | Tweets, YouTube, Spotify ... how does all this technology relate to the classroom, especially for the less technical among us?
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|December 27, 2000
Volume 2, Issue 52
|Midwifery Today E-News
"Omnium Gatherum"
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E-News is free! Pass it on to your friends and colleagues.
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Midwifery Today Conference News
Attend Midwifery Today's Eugene Conference
WATERBIRTH, a class taught by renowned waterbirth pioneer Barbara Harper, will explore the many benefits and ways of using water in birth. Attend this class and many others at Midwifery Today's Eugene, Oregon conference March 22-26, 2001.
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MIDIRS collects references from 1000s of journals, Internet sites, databases and other sources of midwifery related topics and research information.
If you would like unlimited access to this information on-line, click on our link to find out more: www.midirs.org
Quote of the Week:
"After almost twenty years of marriage, some of my best memories are the births of our children, and seeing my wife give in to this powerful maternal act called childbirth."
- Tony Wilson
The Art of Midwifery
St. John's wort oil massaged into the lower back during back labor seems to take the edge off painful contractions for about twenty minutes. Reapply as needed while the woman's back is massaged.
- Donna Vidam, Midwifery Today Issue 49
Doula tip of the week
When I am working with a mom with an epidural or one who is unable to get out of bed, I encourage her to sit up in bed tailor-style (legs crossed in front, feet tucked under the legs). This opens the pelvis, helps gravity bring baby down, applies pressure to the cervix and helps dilation. It works every time!
- Jodie Minniear, C.D. DONA, Brownsburg, Indiana
Share your midwifery and doula arts with E-News readers!
News Flashes
Two new committee opinions issued by The American College
of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) last month affirm the efficacy
of misoprostol for induction of labor and for medical abortion in combination
with RU 486. The ACOG document strongly reaffirms existing ACOG opinion
that misoprostol--a drug manufactured for treatment of gastric ulcers
under the trade name Cytotec--can be used safely and effectively off-label
for cervical ripening and labor induction. ACOG is issuing the opinion
in response to an August letter from G.D. Searle & Co., the manufacturer
of misoprostol, which was sent to physicians just a few weeks before the
FDA's September approval of RU 486/misoprostol. The Searle letter cited
safety concerns in advising against the use of misoprostol in pregnant
Empowering Women
I AM A MIDWIFE WHO ATTENDS TO THE NEEDS OF WOMEN BIRTHING IN THE HOSPITAL. I find that many "modern" (i.e. dot.com) American women and a large percentage of my Chinese immigrant women have difficulty recognizing and validating their strength and power in the process. I think the midwives who attend the [Midwifery Today Eugene] conference probably identify the same problem, especially those whose client have the good fortune of being cared for by midwives by virtue of showing up at a clinic that midwives attend and having no knowledge of the issues of philosophy, etc.
I would find it useful and interesting to include "ways to inspire confidence and a sense of the inherent power and brilliance" of women into the section on women who care for women in the hospital. I work hard at this endeavor every day, but because our presence is diluted by all the non-midwives who work in the "institutions," I find it draining.
Your conferences are restorative and invigorating. However, I also feel a sense of disappointment or frustration because I don't attend homebirths and the most glorious stories usually are from homebirths. I fully support homebirth and would love to see a movement to take normal birth out of the hospital and into the home. There are women who don't have a home suitable for homebirth--they live in what the Chinese call "pigeon houses" where many families share a common bathroom and kitchen, are often alone and unsupported. I hope there will always be midwives willing to attend these women in the hospital.
There is a strong need to remind midwives why they are midwives and ways of bringing those midwives back to the fold.
- Zora
Dear Zora, sister midwife,
Please join the movement to take NORMAL birth out of the hospital and into the home where it belongs! That is the first step to empowerment of your clients, by empowering yourself to autonomy. You don't have to practice in the home to help those of us on the frontlines of midwifery. Every person you meet and with every opportunity, tell them how safe birth is in the home in the hands of a trained midwife. Let your legislators know. We midwives are excellent at what we do, and not validated or appreciated by the medical community at large. This movement starts with the midwife in the mirror...me.
The real issue, having practiced in hospital and in home, is that midwives lack autonomy. If we don't get a letter from a physician, or a collaborative agreement, or signed protocols depending upon the state you practice in, you can't legally practice! That leaves too many of us open for prosecution and harassment every time we safely transport a client to the hospital. It takes a strong woman to be a midwife, to withstand the poverty, (homebirth is not volume oriented, and therefore doesn't reap a lot of financial gain in the rural areas of our country), the accusations, harassment from the medical community, the clerks who file the birth certificates and keep changing the way they want a birth certificate filed. It's disheartening! So please join us by helping to pass legislation for midwives to actually practice their profession so we don't have to go through "medical gates" in order to practice our skills. I don't need a physician to tell me how to practice within my scope of practice. I need him for my high-risk clients, for prescriptions, etc. What good is this $30,000 master of science degree that we've worked hard for, that we place on our walls, that we value so much if we can't practice without "signed" physician's backing!
And--help us win the hearts of doctors. Let's get homebirth out in the open. The physicians in the 200 miles surrounding me are scared of lawsuits, afraid of what their peers will think, afraid their liability insurance will be cancelled and they won't collaborate. There is a lot to be changed. Be a change agent; help the midwives gain their autonomy. Help midwives, CPMs and CNMs become a cohesive group that works together and honors each midwife's skill and trade.
- Sandra Stine, CNM
(Editor's note: Sandra's was the only response to Zora's letter we received at E-News, despite the fact the question ran for several issues. Hospital midwives, or homebirth midwives, do you have something to add? Please send your thoughts to firstname.lastname@example.com)
Check It Out!
HAVE A HAPPY NEW YEAR-Subscribe to Midwifery Today magazine, every midwife's best friend. This will be our 15th year of publication!
TABLE OF CONTENTS for Midwifery Today Issue 56: Click here to view contents. If you're not already a subscriber, have a look at what you're missing!
DO YOUR NEW YEAR PLANS INCLUDE a Midwifery Today conference? Learn more
about what's coming up in 2001!
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Doctors of the World
Nurse midwives, Obstetricians, Neonatologists, OB Nurse Practitioners,
Neonatal Nurses, Ultrasound Technicians needed for Maternal and Infant
Health Program in Kosovo. Positions will include training and lectures
in hospitals and birthing centers, as well as training of community-based
health providers. Overseas experience strongly preferred. Positions available
in 3-, 6- or 12-month contracts throughout 2000/2001 (longer assignments
Midwifery Today's Online Forum
I would love to know why society still has such hangups about breastfeeding. Why is it that, as a breastfeeding mum of a 12 month old, people feel compelled to come to me and tell me "isn't it time to wean him and get your life back." It is a perfectly natural method of nurturing your child and has been done for hundreds of years. The time we spend nurturing our children in this way is really such a small time in their life; does it really matter if we prolong it as long as we can? It's my choice and it is my life right here right now--I don't need to get back a life I already have! I know I won't be doing it forever; why can't people realise that and mind their own business? I think there are a lot of people out there who need to get a life and keep their noses out of everyone else's. Anyone else out there have any thoughts/experiences on this? Cheers.
- Jeannine RN/CM "MUM"
Question of the Week
The news article on HIV testing and false positives [Issue 2:44] was really frightening. Do all midwives require an HIV test?
Send your responses to:
Coming E-News Themes
1. PRECONCEPTION COUNSELING: What do you tell the aspiring parents who
ask you for preconception services/advice?
2. CHARTING CAN BE AS UNIQUE AS EACH MIDWIFE'S CARE. Do you have charting methods you would like to share with E-News readers?
Send your responses to:
Know a strong woman? Helping empower one? If you haven't already done so, please forward this issue of Midwifery Today E-News to one or two of your friends or business associates. Thanks so much!
QUESTION OF THE QUARTER for Midwifery Today magazine
Mamatoto: Motherbaby
Deadline: March 31, 2001
Send your response to:
Some of Connie, Filipina/author, apprentice midwife San Jose,
CA 's ideas on placental physiology are a bit reversed. The placental
maternal circulation is an arteriovenous shunt (ie no capillaries) thus
it is a very low resistance region. The blood volume, cardiac stroke volume
(i.e. amount pumped each beat) and pulse must all increase to compensate
for this, not the other way around.
- Phil Watters
In response to Nikki Lee's question regarding infant mortality and morbidity
rankings [Issue 2:51]:
- Anita Jaynes, RN, SNM
For Ana Montero, I applaud her wonderful work in Peru [Issue 2:50]. I
bless her efforts. I think this is a fairly important correction to make
regarding Varney. I believe Varney states to NOT massage the fundus before
the placenta is delivered. I have not gone back to look it up to be absolutely
certain what Varney has actually stated in the latest edition.
- Sandra Stine CNM
[Re: Peru story] There are many paths that all lead to the same conclusion....Congrats to a brave new midwife with extremely limited resources.
- Phil Watters OBGYN
I was always taught years ago that Pitocin should NEVER be given before the placenta. So I was quite surprised when my consulting OB suggested I run Pit very slowly in her IV to help a placenta that still wasn't out after an hour (she wasn't bleeding). After another hour he came and manually removed it with great difficulty. But everything was OK. So years later when I encountered another stuck placenta I went ahead and did the same thing. After waiting a while I tried to manually remove it and found the cervix had closed down to a tight 5 cms. I called the doc in and he manually removed the placenta with success. I remember realizing with surprise at how quickly the cervix closed down and what would have happened if it would have completely closed? Anyway, I would give Pit only very judiciously in the future for that reason.
- Mary Ann Durbin
I would welcome the responses of my fellow readers:
- Debbie
Is it routine for epidurals to be administered for a cerclage, the procedure where the cervix is stitched shut in order to halt preterm birth?
- Amy Jones
I am curious about fibroids during pregnancy and what to do after the baby is born. A friend is in her sixth month and has fibroids. After the baby is born they plan to remove the fibroids right away. Is there any way to manage the fibroids and/or herbs that will help dissipate them without surgery?
- Tiffany
Don't make your laboring mums take giant steps [Issue 2:51] if they feel it is too hard to do. It's not good for the labor. First of all we learn FROM the women.
- Claire, home midwife FWI
I am a midwife who suffers from Hashimoto's thyroiditis and am wondering if anyone has had the experience of caring for a woman with Hashimoto's antenatally and postnatally. What sort of neonatal care was necessary?
- Azure
Re Issues 2:45 and 2:50 about hemorrhage: I came upon the very beautiful and wonderful book "Creating a Joyfull Birth Experience" by Lucia Capacchione Ph.D., A.T.R., and Sandra Bardsley R.N, F.A.C.C.E., that presents a very creative way of dealing with complicated situations (hemorrhage, failure to dilate, etc.) through prenatal "creative journal work." It is a method that works to get the mother (and father) in touch with inner physical and mental processes, and it gives a special creative place to discover and heal fears, pain, problems, and emotional strife about birth. With hemorrhage, for example, there is a very simple exercise that the mother does: every time she squeezes the liquid out of a sponge, towel, washcloth or whatever, she thinks, This is what I am going to tell my uterus to do after the birth of the baby. For preventing perineal tears, there are several visualizations as well as an exercise: run fingers/thumbs along the perineum, and along the thick ligament as well, using vegetable oils (olive, vit E, etc.) or a water-based lubricant, applying slight pressure until the point of slight burning sensation. This should be done often, every day, by mother or father, as part of the preparation ritual, and very positive results (stretchy flexible perineum) are seen in a few weeks. I strongly recommend this book to parents and all birth practitioners!
- Megan Aiyana
I am a student midwife. I would appreciate your readers' comments on the following:
1. Relationship between lunar cycles (full or new moon) and the initiation
of childbirth. I did a comprehensive literature review, and found that
a) many published empirical studies have poor methodology; b) the results
from different studies contradict each other. From my reading it appears
that lunar cycles could indirectly influence the initiation of birth through
the moon's effect on the weather and therefore on the barometric pressure
which has been frequently found to correlate with the rates of childbirth;
also through the effect of light on the release of hormones. Most of the
studies were carried out in teaching hospitals in large cities, but the
relationship--if there is one--should be much stronger in rural/nonindustrialised
2. Does anyone have experience of using hypnosis and/or music therapy in maternity care, especially--but not only--as a method of pain relief during labour?
- Anna
I'm not sure what to make of [the comment on a vertical cesarean incision (Issue 2:51)]. Not all cesarean sections were "classical" even 44 years ago. The VBAC debate today is about transverse incision ops. The risks for VBAC after vertical uterine incision are just too great, and I think most mothers would agree. But it shouldn't come up as CS is (with VERY rare exceptions) transverse (ie lower segment) these days.
- Phil Watters
Although vitamin C may make tissue stronger and decrease the chance of stretch marks in pregnancy [Issue 2:51], it can also cause miscarriage. Vitamin C is a strong emmenagogue and an implantation inhibitor, therefore taking vitamin C can prevent conception or cause a miscarriage. I would ask that women seriously look into the side effects of any foods or herbs before using them during pregnancy. So many things that are deemed safe can be dangerous to the baby.
- Jen
Midwifery Today E-News is published electronically every Wednesday. We invite your questions, comments and submissions. We'd love to hear from you!
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Midwifery Today: Each One Teach One!


text:
HICKORY, N.C. – Sophomore midfielder Allie Sheftall scored a career high four goals, but the Saint Leo women's lacrosse team dropped a regional road contest to Lenoir-Rhyne University on Monday afternoon. The loss drops Saint Leo to a mark of 1-1, while Lenoir-Rhyne advances its young season to 2-1.
Sheftall's four goals were joined by two from freshman Kelsey Burns, and one goal apiece from Joanna Chadwick, Bethanny Jolly, and Emily Pittenger. Alix Murray and Cassie Miller dished out an assist each on the afternoon.
The Bears were led in scoring by Claire Welch, whose four goals and two assists made for a game high six points. Kelsie Swanson tallied a hat trick and two assists for five points overall, while Lauren Donovan, Bailey Leonard, and Kristen Smith each scored two goals of their own.
Brittany Millsap started in cage for the Lions, making seven saves while allowing 10 goals in 27:52 of action between the pipes. Freshman Kaylyn Kearns made her collegiate debut seeing 32:08 in cage, and allowing just four goals while making nine saves. Their counterpart for Lenoir-Rhyne, Amanda Cotto, made 14 saves while allowing nine goals.
Saint Leo got the ball rolling in the first half, scoring a minute and a half into the game, but the Bears answered back with three of their own to pull ahead to a 3-1 lead with 26:16 before the break. Jolly scored next off of an assist from Miller, but Lenoir-Rhyne rattled off five straight to pull ahead to an 8-2 advantage with 10:00 minutes to go before halftime.
Sheftall netted an unassisted goal to pull the Lions to within five, but the Bears retaliated with two more to pull ahead 10-3 with two minutes to go. With 22 seconds on the clock before the break, Sheftall scored her second of the day, leaving the Lions trailing by a score of 10-4 at the half.
Despite outscoring Lenoir-Rhyne 5-4 in the final 30 minutes of play, the Saint Leo women's lacrosse team was unable to pull out a comeback bid, falling to the Bears by five points.
Saint Leo trailed the shot count, 41-30, but pulled in 32 ground balls while the Bears earned 33. Both teams committed 27 fouls. Saint Leo was successful on 24-of-31 clear attempts, and pulled in seven draw controls to Lenoir-Rhyne's 18.
The Saint Leo women's lacrosse team returns to action on Sunday, March 2, when they take on Gannon University in their home opener at University Turf Stadium. Game time against the Knights is slated for 1 p.m.
For the latest news, updates, and information on the Saint Leo women's lacrosse team, be sure to visit SaintLeoLions.com. Fans can also stay up-to-date on the latest Lions news by following Saint Leo Athletics on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and Youtube.


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AVADirect Clevo P170EM Part 2: GTX 680M Grudge Matchby Jarred Walton on 10/15/2012 6:50 PM EST
58 Comments
Back to Article
Zodiark1593 - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkThink we can get a comparison of the GTX 680M SLI vs the Radeon 7970M Crossfire?
Also, do Clevo laptops that come equipped with dual GPUs also rely on a muxless design? Reply
sabot00 - Monday, October 15, 2012 - link"That's a cost increase of 15% for a typical gaming performance increase of around 20% at high quality settings"
I disagree with this reasoning, as a laptop also does many other things, many of which (CPU, HDD, RAM, internet performance) don't increase with the price.
This is analogous to saying that one can purchase a 256GB 830 SSD for $160, which is only around a $40 premium over a 1TB laptop HDD. Then claiming that this new laptop has 600% more performance in random 4K reads for only a $40 (2% increase for a $2000 laptop) premium.
While important to many people, especially buyers of these laptops, it's ultimately up to the buyer to decide, and as such, the premium for a purely graphical upgrade should not be weighed against the total cost of the laptop.
The 7970M is ~$450, in terms of OEM price, the GTX 680M is $650, truly, it is a 44% percent increase in price of the graphics subsystem for a 20% increase in graphics performance. Reply
JarredWalton - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkI'm speaking to people shopping for a gaming notebook. Since you generally can't purchase just a GPU upgrade (you can try, and in some cases it might even work -- some older Clevo units at least have managed to run multiple generations of GPU hardware), you have to buy the whole package. Yes, it's 40% more for 20% more performance when just looking at the GPU, but unlike desktops you can't just look at the GPU upgrade cost. Also, anyone buying HDDs without an SSD for the OS/apps just doesn't know what it's like to have a system boot and load apps quickly. Once you go SSD, you'd definitely pay double the price for one fourth the capacity and count yourself lucky. Reply
krumme - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkGoing by your logic, every gamer should buy a faster gfx for their rig. As total cost always will make the faster gfx a better choice. When does it end?
You can explain all you want, but your reasoning stands as one of they most idiotic this year, and makes this look like a commercial.
Man even Nvidia nor AMD would ever come up with such an argument.
Think about applying this logic to rest of your purchases. Damn. Reply
cjb110 - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkI think if your looking at laptop gaming then yes the logic of buying the fastest gfx is sound. Laptops still have more of a mismatch between the capability of the cpu and the gpu. i.e. the CPU isn't the bottleneck.
I don't think any one at AnandTech would apply the same logic to desktop gaming. In desktops its more even, so making sure the two are matched will save you money. Reply
krumme - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkNo ssd, 768 15 pathetic screen, lousy build quality?
274 usd brings you a long way of improving your rig.
Its the first time i hear the argument in 20 years on the www, and for a good reason. Reply
JarredWalton - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkNo, it's not the first time the argument has been made. We frequently discuss the value of upgrading to a faster GPU in our desktop GPU reviews. If you look at an HD 7770 GPU that costs $125 and compare that to a 7870 at $240, is there value in the upgrade? Yes: it's substantially faster (nearly twice as fast), which opens up the possibility for 1080p gaming in most titles. Then we look at the HD 7970 and it's $410 but is only 20-30% faster. It's no longer a stellar upgrade.
Here, we're looking at the total cost with gaming as the main purpose for buying a gaming laptop. It's okay to think people buying gaming laptops have more dollars than sense, but assuming someone wants a high performance gaming laptop, they're going to be shelling out minimum $1800 for something with HD 7970M or GTX 680M. So, if you have to pay $200 more to swap out AMD for NVIDIA hardware, is there value there?
The answer is a resounding yes. Sure, the 20% performance increase is nice, but it's about more than the performance. I specifically note the driver situation (twice in the conclusion alone). Given the option between Enduro and Optimus, right now you're shooting your gaming laptop in the foot if you go with Enduro. AMD has to fix this, and I think they will fix things, but that doesn't change the fact that they've been selling 7970M for four or five months with a major lack of driver support. Talk to me in another month, and hopefully I can say that it's no longer a major sticking point, but today? Nope, AMD's solution is hamstrung. Reply
krumme - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - linkThe argument about driver and the quality of optimus is completely valid in my world. I have good experience with the optimus gaming laptop i have, and would always favor stability. Enduro is not working yet. Its very simple for my personal preference.
But when buying a rig, you are always torn between where to put your money.
Do you prefer a gaming rig with an ssd and better screen to a faster gfx? - its not up to the reviewer to be the judge here. And present it as the truth. The reviewer can present the facts, and then the consumer, can make the right choises based on his own needs. The reviewer should be the guide. Reply
JarredWalton - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - linkYou're reading a review, which inherently has subjective opinion -- a full page of it earlier, obviously, but the conclusion has a lot of subjective stuff as well. It actually *is* a reviewers job to be a judge; otherwise I should just run the benchmarks and post graphs and I could be done with a review in a day or two rather than spending a couple weeks running and evaluating. It's not a laptop review if all you're doing is showing performance and the price. You need to evaluate how the whole package comes together.
People can certainly disagree with me and say, "I don't personally need or want to spend the money for an SSD." Or, "I think the 7970M is the better graphics card [because...]" That's fine. But my opinion is that when looking at the cost to buy a well equipped P170EM for gaming purposes, the additional money required to go from 7970M to 680M is definitely the way to go. If the extra $275 at AVADirect for that particular upgrade is "too much", you should NOT be buying a gaming notebook that costs $1500+ in the first place. Reply
krumme - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - linkThe recommendation of the more expensive alternative is wrapped in numbers, presenting it as objective fact.
When what happens is comparing total cost to a single benefit, albeit the most important one. Its inconsistent, and presented the wrong way imho. Its very simple just to say its say 15-20% faster, then the buyers can make up for themselves. Reply
JarredWalton - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - linkIt's very simple to say, it's 15-20% faster, my overall experience was better, and if I were in the market for a high-end gaming laptop I would be unhappy with the [current] drivers on the AMD platform, plus the inconsistency of performance.
However, if you love Sniper Elite V2 and hate most other games, I sure hope you won't just read that above sentence and assume it's an absolute fact that GTX 680M is better. That's what the rest of the review is for (all 7000 words of it). You're nitpicking over some remarks in the conclusion and suggesting I presented an "inconsistent" piece of information by discussing FPS and performance, when again the conclusion states:
"That's a cost increase of 15% for a typical gaming performance increase of around 20% at high quality settings (e.g. 1080p 4xAA). Add to that the proven track record of NVIDIA's driver updates and for gaming purposes, that extra $200 is money well spent."
You've got a brain Krumme; use it. If you're in the market for a GPU upgrade to your laptop and you can actually get an MXM 3.0 module with HD 7970M or GTX 680M that will work in your system, obviously you're going to need to look at different pricing that the cost of an entire notebook. My statement comparing total notebook cost with the two GPUs is for 99.9% of people that buy a notebook and don't upgrade it, and I'm not going to try to appease you by dumbing it down. I'm also not going to fall for the marketing gimmick of saying, "NVIDIA is only 20% faster on average but costs 50% more!" That's blatantly false and misleading information for most people shopping for a gaming notebook. Just like I didn't compare a base model Alienware M17x R4 with a GTX 660M, 6GB RAM, 500GB HDD, 1600x900 LCD, etc. to the P170EM reviewed and say, "Wow, Alienware M17x R4 costs $1500 while the P170EM costs $2250!" Reply
krumme - Thursday, October 18, 2012 - linkYou are right. I am nitpicking and i am also constantly hysterical critical. Thats why i read Anandtech.
And i dont expect you to appeace me, thats also why i read Anandtech. I know my words can be very harsh, sorry for that. I will try to improve it in my next life, as it seems i am to old and sour to change.
And i have the higest regard for the quality of the review, and especially for you beeing involved in the discussion afterwards.
I think its a strawman when you put up the statement "NVIDIA is only 20% faster on average but costs 50% more". Technically its right, and its methology right by comparing single cost to single benefit, but putting it on words is walking all over the fact that the benefit is one of the most important - ift not the most important - benefit of the rig. Then the review would be skewed. We agree.
But you argument is still comparing a - single - benefit, to the - total - cost.
I am not saying you judgement is wrong, probably for most people it is right, but you are not to be the judge. We have plenty of opinion on the net, and thats not why i read Anandtech.
An example following yours. A gamer looking for a Dell machine. He can choose between the 17r with 650 gfx or the Alienware with 660. A lot of gamer would choose the Alienware, not because of the minor difference in speed, but because of the other qualities. Even if there is a huge difference in total cost. Thats because there is way more to a gaming rig for a gamer than FPS. For what and to what degree is a personal preference. The reviewers job is to broaden the view for the reader and put numbers on the consequences.
Your conclusion negates that, directly comparing a single benefit to total cost.
Ofcourse AMD and Nvidia have two different ways they want this presented in the review. Both are wrong. Reply
JarredWalton - Friday, October 19, 2012 - linkSo what exactly would you have me say? Just "it's 20% faster than 7970M, which is a decent jump but not earth shattering. Of far more import is the driver situation. Also note that even the fastest mobile GPU right now, the GTX 680M, is basically offering similar performance to a desktop GTX 660. That's a $230 part (albeit with less memory)." That would be true, but I'm not sure it's useful unless you're wondering "should I get a gaming notebook or a gaming desktop?" Reply
Notmyusualid - Friday, October 19, 2012 - linkWell, I own dual 7970Ms, and I think Anandtech has spoken; I would have been better spending on the Nvidia solution, as opposed the AMD offering, and I won't whine about it.
Not a fan-boi either way, the benchmarks speak for themselves, Nvidia wins.
Mostly mine work, but on some occasions (Shit 2) they are less than perfect.
Thanks for the review, and like the first poster said, if at all possible, could you pit Crossfire against SLI for us? Reply
krumme - Friday, October 19, 2012 - linkYou should say exactly nothing in the conclusion, and let your review stand as it is.
For one gamer the 20% could be decisive for if he could play his games on the notebook at all (at native resolusion at good quality), or really make a huge difference. And you have given him the numbers.
For another gamer, the extra performance doesnt mean extra user benefits, but he can enjoy all the other qualities of the notebook. And you have given him all the details.
I know its expected in the conclusion there is some sort of judgement, - like its a boxing fight. But instead i would just point out the strong and weak sides for different users on the notebook and the gfx solution.
Regarding the enduro I would lean on the side regarding it as beta not working, and therefore something that as a start should be disabled in the bios. Its simply not a working feature yet. There is a lot of users buying notebooks, also in this class, that is not nerds. Having the feature enabled as a standard is an error in my view.
I dont know if its relevant for the readers to know that they can buy say a 660 on desktop side and get same performance.But i think its a good question. Its about putting the notebook in its context. And againg perhaps some readers dont use all their time comparing between desktop and notebook but buy either notebook or desktop from tradition. They use their time gaming instead of nerding - and they probably as a result use less money on their gear. Unlike us others who try to get as many excuses to create a need, and buy some new expensive gear. Reply
krumme - Friday, October 19, 2012 - linkI know in the conclusion its expected that there is some final judgement like its a boxing match.
But I dont expect you to say something, but let the review stand as it is.
For one gamer, the extra fps can be crusial. And you have given him the numbers.
For another, its doesnt give any noticiable difference, but he is more interested in the other qualities. And you have given him the details.
Regarding enduro, its simply not a working feature for other than nerds. And i think it should have been disabled in the bios as a standard, until the drivers are ready.
I think its a good question if its relevant to compare to desktop solutions. Perhaps, as many of your readers use their time gaming, or being in the off topic thread in the forum, instead of nerding, and therefore probably dont use so much time comparing, but buy more or less by habit. Reply
krumme - Friday, October 19, 2012 - linkMan !
Disregard the two above Reply
TokamakH3 - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - linkOnly $170 more for the 7970 over the 7870 for a 20-30% speed increase? In a $1700 machine, that's only 10% more! What a huge bargain! 10% more money for a 20-30% performance increase! Why don't you recommend that? Reply
Uritziel - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkThere is certainly no logical flaw in looking at these two laptop configurations and seeing a ~20% gaming performance increase for a ~15% cost increase. Furthermore, the difficulty (and often infeasibility) of upgrading the gpu in many laptops elevates such reasoning from merely correct to obviously sensible. If this article compared two smartphones with the same numbers, would you make your same trollish complaint?
Either way, it's perfectly fine to consider the performance/price ratio from both perspectives. What is NOT fine is your uncalled-for insulting of the author. His reasoning is far from 'idiotic,' and, if such reasoning IS the worst you've seen in the last ~9.5 months, I must conclude you have been cut off from society for almost that same amount of time.
I urge to you to rethink both your position and attitude in the future. Next time you might responding more like this: "Hey Jarred. I notice how you consider the performance/price ratio from a system perspective in the article. I was hoping you might include a line or two appraising it from a component perspective, as I think it would be helpful to let people know that the gpu alone follows the more traditional performance/price curve. Thanks!" Reply
Uritziel - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - link"Next time you might responding..." should be "Next time you might try responding..." Reply
Wolfpup - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkYeah, I agree with everything there. It's...just disgusting to be insulting the author like that, and on top of that it's the commentor's "logic" that's iffy, not the authors. Reply
krumme - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - link"If this article compared two smartphones with the same numbers, would you make your same trollish complaint?"
Yes. If a gamers phone was sold for 1150 usd compared to 1000 usd for exactly the same phone except gpu power.
The total cost should be compared to the total benefit for the consumer. Even for a gamer, not everything is fps. There is a lot more to it when buying a machine. Therefore the argument is stupid.
Jarred completely missed the total benefits, and only looked at the fps side. Thats okey, but then dont compare to the total cost. There is no consistency. Reply
Wolfpup - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkNo, his reasoning makes complete sense. It's the same reason you don't buy one of these notebooks and then opt for a GTX 660. The GTX 660 isn't BAD, but if you're already spending that much, and getting this notebook, it makes sense to get the best, particularly since you can't upgrade.
This is about as cut and dried a choice as there's ever been-not an ad. The GTX 680 is just plain the fastest, AND it remains a reality that Nvidia is a safer choice even if it was slower, because they have more than a decade trackrecord with solid drivers, while AMD has...well, I'm not sure they're at 1 month yet, they keep screwing up, and then promising it'll be different.
I *am* still very concerned about Optimus/Enduro though, and wish you could get these systems WITHOUT them at least as an option, without having to spend $400 extra on the "3D" screen.
The M17x-R4 would actually be an easy choice for me *if* it didn't have Optimus. When you tack on the extra $400 for hte "3D" screen I'd be getting solely to get rid of Optimus...well, the price gets harder to stomach. Reply
JarredWalton - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - linkYou can disable Optimus/Enduro on the M17x R4 in the BIOS I believe -- I know at least Enduro can be turned off, so I assume it's both. They have physical muxes on the motherboard so that all the display outputs can be routed to the dGPU, which is the major thing preventing Clevo from supporting non-Enduro/Optimus. But personally, since I only run Windows, I have no problem with Optimus. It works well for all the stuff I've done; at worst I occasionally have to tweak a game with a custom profile. Reply
transphasic - Saturday, October 20, 2012 - linkI agree with your comments and rationale on this Jarred. Since I am an owner of the 7970m, I can speak to this issue with my own experiences and buyer's remorse at foolishly choosing the 7970m in the first place.
It's really worth it to pay a little more for better quality, better drivers, and better support in choosing what to do in deciding what GPU to put in a gaming laptop.
Why quibble over an extra $250 dollars or so, when you are already spending $2000 anyways?
This strikes me as penny-wise, pound foolishness to try to scrimp and save $250-$300 dollars on choosing a flawed AMD 7970m product, that almost 4 months later, we STILL have not yet gotten proper driver support from AMD.
(what's worse, is that AMD just laid off about 3,000 of their engineers who were probably working this so-called "hotfix" driver, so we might have to wait for a lot longer time now to get it, if we ever do. AMD is on shaky ground now, and that makes me even more nervous about their present and future).
As for me, and the testing work that you did, Jarred, I am impressed with all the time and energies that you put into it, so thank you very much for your work on this, and after seeing that the "hotfix" still doesn't close the gap by that much, it leads me to the conclusion that I (and others as well) are better off going to Nvidia from now on. In fact, I am now going to take the next step in this, by swapping out my 7970m, and switching to the 680m, and be done with AMD. Reply
bennyg - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkConclusion mentions cooling is better in Clevo (vs MSI/AW). Where's the results of that test? AT reviews seem to be getting more focused on overanalysis and pennypinching comparisons compared with taking more measures of the actual notebook. Like idle/load/surface temps!
Real enthusiasts also don't really care much about options other than CPU as we know most of the time you end up better off (especially with Dell/AW) buying the parts yourself and installing.
Re the actual review, I don't understand why Clevo take a bad nonstandard keyboard, and find a way to make it even more annoyingly 'custom' and worse... Reply
JarredWalton - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkThe stress testing of the GTX 680M wasn't especially different from the HD 7970M:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6343/avadirect-clevo... Reply
Freakie - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkIf I'm reading those graphs right, GPU utilization is actually higher on the 7970 than the 680 on a number of games that the 680 still beats it at. Seems to me like even if GPU utilization were "fixed" to be even greater on both systems, then the 680 would still beat it out in most games and therefor the Utilization argument is kind of a weak one. The only games that it seems it would help with is a couple of games at Mainstream/Value settings which as you already said in the article, most people wont be bothering with. But of course to test GPU utilization THAT thoroughly would take an incredible about of time xP So it shall remain a mystery I suppose. Reply
jigglywiggly - Monday, October 15, 2012 - linkwhy are you hating on the look? I love the way clevos look Reply
Brojo - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkI pretty much have that Clevo system except 16GB of RAM with the 7970. I knew I should of went with the 680 =p and kicking myself in the ass after seeing more and more comparisons. I will be optimistic and hope for better driver release but...if i want to swap cards It shouldnt be too difficult right? Reply
JarredWalton - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkIt should be possible, but buying a GTX 680M module on its own can cost $900 or something insane. If anyone has a good link to where you can find just a GPU upgrade for the P170EM, please post. Best I can find right now is on eBay:
Needless to say, waiting for the Hotfix at this point is reasonable. Barring that, I'd suggest selling your existing system and buying one with GTX 680M rather than just paying for the GPU upgrade. Reply
Wixman666 - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkDon't worry about it.. the difference isn't large enough to upgrade the video or take a bath on selling then buying the other unit. Reply
TrantaLocked - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkGreat review Jarred! Reply
Jamahl - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkFact is this is a very Nvidia-friendly gaming suite - that's why this site consistently scores as an outlier for Nvidia. As a rule of thumb you want to subtract 10% from the overall result to find the true position of the Nvidia card - true as in what the majority of the tech press find.
Even then this particular review is pretty horrible on the 7970, as it has had the best performing games removed (Crysis and Metro). Quite why those are worth removing instead of the complete Nvidia outlier Portal 2 is a mystery (I'm sure we all have our suspicions), but there you go. Reply
JarredWalton - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkYou include Crysis and Metro and then suggest our gaming suite needs updating? Give me a break. We removed Crysis as a test game for laptops about two years ago... when Warhead was "only" two years old already. When we revise the gaming suite next time, I'm pretty sure we'll drop Civ5, TWS2, and some of the other games. DiRT 3 was originally an AMD game, but NVIDIA has long since caught up. Civ5 was also an AMD game. Total War: Shogun 2 is an AMD title as well. You see the problem with your assertion that we're "NVIDIA-friendly" yet? So here's the full rundown of the fifteen tested games:
Batman: NVIDIA
Battlefield 3: NVIDIA
Borderlands 2: NVIDIA
Civilization V: AMD
Diablo 3: Agnostic
DiRT 3: AMD
DiRT Showdown: AMD
Elder Scrolls Skyrim: Agnostic
Guild Wars 2: Agnostic
Max Payne 3: NVIDIA
Portal 2: Agnostic
Sleeping Dogs: AMD
Sniper Elite V2: AMD
Total War Shogun 2: AMD
Witcher 2: NVIDIA
Final tally:
AMD Titles: Six
NVIDIA Titles: Five
Neutral Titles: Four
The problem you're having is that NVIDIA has generally spent more time and effort optimizing for games, which means that some of the neutral and AMD-sponsored games are now running better on NVIDIA hardware than on AMD. Or maybe you think it's unfair that when we sort alphabetically, NVIDIA titles happen to occupy the first three slots and AMD has three of the last four? Going back to run games that few people are still playing just to try to make things "fair" is actually being the exact opposite. Crysis and Metro? Please. Why not Crysis 2 at least -- oh wait, it's an NVIDIA title. Reply
Brainling - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkCrysis and Metro? Seriously? It's almost 2013, we're four full game cycles away from the release of Metro, and much farther from Crysis.
For that matter, my 670 barely breaks a sweat on Metro at 1200p max everything , why would you test a 680 with it? Is it a yawning test to see how bored the graphics card can seem? Reply
silverblue - Friday, October 19, 2012 - linkI don't think it's NVIDIA's fault as a whole that they offer better support than AMD. It's also worth showing games like Portal 2 and DiRT Showdown which have very high framerates because it's interesting to find out why one architecture might monster through them (6xx series) where another might not (7xxx series).
I've never actually played Crysis, but from the benchmarks, it looks amazingly inefficient and not a complete representation of what a graphics card can and cannot do.
I used to defend AMD's drivers quite vehemently; after all, they'd never caused me any issues. However, when I see issues with Enduro, poor and non-existent Hybrid Crossfire scaling, GPU underutilisation, slack support for driver command lists, poor video encoding quality... need I go on? AMD could make the best hardware around (and, in reality, it probably does), but what would really benefit them is shifting resources to the software development side. If they're going to be powering two of the next consoles, it's in their best interests to get software support up to scratch. Hardware is all well and good but if the software support isn't completely there... Reply
BiggieShady - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkOn the last page, instead of "I've beat that horse enough" there should be "I've beaten that horse enough". To Beat is an irregular verb - beat, beat, beaten. You should use past participle here - beaten. Or just stop beating the poor horse :) Reply
Tijgert - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkFor starters the GPU IS upgradeable (see eBay) and over time, with the release of newer GPU's, it will make financial sense to do so. Right now if you can get a great deal on a system with a 7970m you still get the second best performing card in the world with a future upgradeability guarantee (MXM is a standard, not proprietary tech).
I think the reasoning of a relative graphics performance increase equal to the total price increase being reasonable or financial sound is something only a teenager or rich madman would swallow.
Given that all the other bits don't increase equally you end up paying a lot for a little.
The screen resolution stays the same, the battery lasts just as long, the CPU doesn't tick any faster, the amount of memory doesn't increase and the Gigs on your SSD don't increase either.
As long as you can get great visuals (even if not at 4xAA and enough detail to see textured zits) at a very playable framerate, you're doing just fine. Just enjoy it and wait for that 690m or 700m or whatever MXM 3.0b card to come out that's better and just upgrade.
FYI I'm on the fence on getting a completely tricked out 2200 euro (yes, euro) system that's three months old for 1560 with a 7970m... or saving for a 680m... see, I'm actually a graphics whore too even if may sound sensible at times... Reply
JarredWalton - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - linkIf a notebook supports the newer GPU with its BIOS/firmware, you can upgrade to a newer GPU. However, just because MXM is a standard doesn't mean all MXM GPUs will work. Take for example the last-generation Clevo notebooks; I'm pretty sure the P150/170HM received the necessary BIOS update to work with 7970M/680M. However, the generation before that AFAIK can't run 7970M/680M. The cards will fit but they don't work properly. As I note below, you can't buy a P1x0EM without a GPU, though, so there's not a real need to compare pricing of just the GPUs. I'm reviewing the P170EM and looking at 7970M vs. 680M, not talking about "should you try to upgrade your older notebook with a 7970M or a 680M?"
For your 7970M setup, wait for a week and then maybe we'll know if you should trust AMD's updated drivers. Reply
TrantaLocked - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkJarred you messed up with performance vs price on this one. On powetnotebooks.com and most resellers, the 7970m adds $300 to the price, while the 680m adds $495. That is a 66% increase in cost for a 20% gain in performance. Reply
JarredWalton - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - linkIf you want to talk GPU pricing, technically the MXM 7970M can be found for around $600 typically, which the GTX 680M goes for $900. But you can't buy a P170EM without any GPU, so it's still a strange discussion to have. Reply
TokamakH3 - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - linkOh? I bet if you contacted XoticPC or one of the other resellers, they'd probably be willing to sell you a P170EM without a GPU. Clevo systems are a lot more like desktops in that they're very configurable, esp if you include all the reseller options. The above post does make a good point, if you look at it from a purely upgrade price, the difference is an exaggerated 66%, if you look at it as a total system price, it's a very understated 15%. Clearly someone can choose whichever value they want to either emphasize the AMD price advantage or marginalize it.
Seems like the fair thing to do would be to compare the OEM price. Reply
TrantaLocked - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkPerformance decreased heavily in Diablo 3, unless you had Vsync on for the 7970m for Diabo 3 Jarred? http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-HD-7970M.7...
The 7970m should be getting over 80FPS at ultra, with or without Enduro. Reply
JarredWalton - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - linkI tested a section of the game that was likely more demanding than the results elsewhere. It's something of a "worst-case", but that's where you notice problems the most. Reply
TrantaLocked - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkJarred could you test an Alienware with a 7970m with Enduro off and compare to the Clevo with 7970m and hotfix? I think that i more important to 7970m owners than 7970m vs 680m. Reply
JarredWalton - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - linkWe don't have one (yet? AMD said they'd try to get me one), but if I can get an M17x with 7970M, I'll definitely test both with and without Enduro. Reply
Hrel - Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - linkPerformance advantage aside, those battery life results are why I go Nvidia lately; and Intel as a matter of fact. Not to mention the generally better/more stable driver support, CUDA and PhysX which both hold value. No, the value they add wouldn't be enough to make me buy Nvidia if AMD had a 50% performance lead at the same price, but they do not.
Also last time I used AMD gpu's, HD4000 series, I ran into hiccups in running my PC. Audio stuff, some video stuff with certain video files, proper fitting to my HDTV screen, other random inconsistencies that aren't necessarily a deal breaker; but are most definitely annoying.
Laptops though, Optimus being more mature and the better battery life at any given price range gives them the win in my book; all day. Reply
Bytales - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - linkI own a p370em with dual 7970m. I play borderlands 2, diablo 3, star war the old repulbic. Other games, i havent tested.
On notebookcheck, the 7970mCF is listed between 34491 and 35926 P GPU Vantage score.
I have managed to install a 12.9 beta desktop driver on the laptop.
Score is now 37200 P Gpu Vantage.
Also note, that as of now, there still is NO DRIVER with OFFICIAL SUPPORT for the 7970m.
Bugs that i encountered are a few with crossfire on, in swtor, like minimap flickering, and in single gpu stuttering with shadows, But i believe later on when we will have a driver with official support for the 7970m, we will get more performance, or at least not so many bugs.
i gotta ask yah, what driver did you use for the 7970m tests ? Is that the driver supplied with the cd ? Cause if that is the case, then using the driver that i have, will bring more performance.
The problem is, i think the dekstop driver cant be used on the laptop with integrated graphics.
THe p370em's design is so that is bypasses the iGPU, there are no enduro problems, and no under utilization problems.
I do think driver will fix a few more problems in the future and bring performance up a bit.
Besides, i play games on a single cpu, and mine bit coins with the second :) and since i am home only 6 hours a day, i do profit from letting the GPUs mine coins, which is way better on the AMD gpus. Reply
whatthehey - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - linkWow! Just wow. Mining BTC on a CrossFire laptop might help offset the cost a bit but that's going to take a long time to come anywhere near paying off the notebook. Assuming current rates, I assume your P370EM gets around 650Mh/s. That would mean around 0.19BTC per day, while drawing around 260W, so profit at $12/BTC could work out to ~$1.66 per day, or almost $50 per month. But in another six weeks or so, the block reward gets cut in half and you're then down to earning $0.60 per day. Sure, that's still $18 per month, but....
How much wear and tear does it cost to run a GPU at 100% load 24/7? On a desktop, I could see it potentially being a viable tactic to earn some money, especially since you can buy a 7970 for $410 and mine at 650Mh/s on a single GPU. But on the P370EM you've invested how much? $2300? I think you'll end up killing hardware (fans or other elements could fail) long before you've recovered the initial cost. But best of luck! Reply
Harmattan - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - linkI've now owned a p150hm with a 7970m, an m17x with a 7970m and 680m, an m18x with dual 7970m and another (my current) m18x with dual 680ms. After having spent many hours with each config, , my initial assertions stand...
-if you're going single card and Clevo, get the 680m: although the drivers are almost comparable between the two cards, Enduro power management (and the inability to turn it off) is a whole heap of wrong.
-If you're going single card and AW, get the 7970m: since Enduro issues are not there, the price increase of the 680m is not justified.
-If you're going dual cards on either Clevo or AW, go 680m. 7970 CF drivers are a mess in many games and I experienced many issues (even after replaced cards)
All in all, I am happier and had less problems with the 680m on all configs. When the 7970m ran well, it is comparable, but that is rare.
The above points are just based on pure gaming performance at stock. If you're OC-ing, compare the desktop performance of a 7870 vs. GTX 670 - both cards are beasts, but the GTX 670 is +/-20% faster in most situations (and runs cooler). Reply
TokamakH3 - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - link
so we're looking at $1975 vs. $2249 for the AMD vs. NVIDIA matchup; that's a price difference of just under 14%, so ideally you'd want the GTX 680M to be at least 14% faster to warranty the upgrade.
Would that fly in a desktop video card review? "Well, the Nvidia card is $574 while the AMD card is $300, but since the desktop you'll put it in will be $1975 vs $2249, there's only a 14% price difference, so we'll only look for a 14% performance difference"
That really makes no sense at all. Reply
TokamakH3 - Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - linkHaha, dead horse. Should read before commenting, would delete the post if I could. Reply
cartmanasan - Thursday, October 18, 2012 - linkDon't know why no one covers professional applications like Maya, 3DSM etc. nVidia has got worse performance than their own previous cards. Have seen this going around in many forums. Gaming notebooks are well placed to be workstation/DTRs. No Mention of GPU Boost technology of nVidia as well. A comparison of overclocking would have been better too. Reply
transphasic - Saturday, October 20, 2012 - linkThe reason AMD GPU's score far better than the Nvidia offerings this time around on business applications, is due to Nvidia's new Kepler-based designs are more gaming-oriented in it's focus, as opposed to the older Fermi-based chips, so that is the reason why, from what I have seen as an explanation from NBR.com for AMD to win this particular battle.
Kepler-based GPU's are more for gaming performance, but the AMD fares better on business-related programs and applications. Reply
tential - Monday, November 19, 2012 - linkI think I'm a little late to the party but the reviewers opinion in the Conclusion is just that. An OPINION. I usually skip to the conclusion pretty fast because I'd like to hear their opinion. The raw numbers is usually not enough to make a decision. If so, I'd had said "The 680M is faster but I think the 7970 is good enough for me." Now after reading further and factoring in driver support as well as the other issues with AMD, I think it'd be worthwhile to spend the extra money.
I understand the gripe of using the GFX performance as the only thing that matters when considering the upgrade however but I don't think that's what the reviewer was doing. A laptop is used for many other things other than just gaming. Even a gaming laptop is. Hell, my gaming laptop is currently not even used for much gaming as I do a lot of other things on it. I think it's important for people to take the reviewers opinion in context though and to know that you have to make your own opinion. It's obvious that if you do a lot of other things other than gaming than maybe you can't justify the upgrade. However, if you primarily use it for gaming maybe you can. I think an update article in a couple of months would be nice though.
IMO, some things I'd like Anandtech to start including though would be an adjusted FPS page. This page would should FPS but would weight FPS above 60 lower. I really don't think there is a point in saying "Wow this card runs a game at 120 fps and this card runs it at 100 so the first card is what you should get!" Why not get the card that runs it at 100 fps when all I need is 60 FPS anyway right? I know this can be used to say that a card may run future games better but sometimes I'd like to know just about current games. Reply
Hrel - Wednesday, January 02, 2013 - linkHow did you measure GPU utilization? As far as I know FRAPS and the like only give FPS and admin tools don't have an option to add GPU to the list. So how did you do it? What did you use?
Maybe it's in the article somewhere, but I'm at work and can't comb through the whole thing. Reply
Hrel - Wednesday, January 02, 2013 - linkEvery time you talk about what a hassel it is to carry around a laptop I imagine a little hobbit stuggling to pick up something (a large watermelon) just to have Argorn come and pick it up with one hand. It's such a none issue for me I would never even think to talk about it. Yet you go on like anything but an ultrabook just isn't portable. Lol. No point really, it just amuses me.
My laptop bag is generally 30+ lbs and I never have any kind of issue carrying it around all day at a convention or airport or whatever. I'm curious if you're in the minority on this or I am. I mean, does it really matter if the thing weighs 6lbs or 11lbs? I can barely even tell the difference. Reply


text:
NetWellness is a global, community service providing quality, unbiased health information from our partner university faculty. NetWellness is commercial-free and does not accept advertising.
Tuesday, August 22, 2017
Addiction and Substance Abuse
Alprazolam Abuse
hi,, i am a medical student in india,, my uncle is on alprazolam approx 8-10mgs per day for the past 2-3 months, of late he is having symotoms of depression, incoordination, weakness, lack of interest and day time drowsiness. he is not ready to seek medical attention.. being in the health care field myself i feel helpless not being able to help him..kindly advise.. i will be forever obliged for your advise.. his wieght is 90 kgs, he is a cronic smoker, cronic alcoholic( absteining now due to peptic ulcers which was diagnosed about 2 months back), no h/o DM, HTN...
Thanks you for your excellent question. Alprazolam as you know is a short acting, very potent benzodiazepine that is highly habit forming, highly addictive to people with pre-existing alcoholism, and can substantially worsen depression (benzodiazepines and alcohol are depression enhancers or potentiators).
It is exceedingly important for most patients with his history to get off of benzodiazepines and stay off of them. One can try to switch to chlordiazepoxide in an equivalent dose (all at bed-time) and then taper by 10% every two weeks until off. One can try to taper the alprazolam but it is very difficult since it is such a fast onset and short acting agent. One can switch to phenobarbital, or valproic acid, or carbamazepine, or topiramate, or gabapentin in fairly high doses and then taper off over several weeks. It is pretty unsafe to just stop the alprazolam and not replace it immediately with one of the above mentioned medications. (Unless the person is an inpatient in the hospital) I hope this helps.
Ted Parran, MD
Associate Professor of General Medical Sciences
School of Medicine
Case Western Reserve University


text:
Nevirapine suspension
Generic Name: nevirapine (ne-VIR-a-peen)
Brand Name: Viramune
Severe and sometimes fatal liver problems have occurred in patients taking nevirapine suspension. The risk of liver problems is greatest during the first 18 weeks of therapy but may occur at any time during treatment. This may occur in men and women, but the risk may be greater in women and in patients with a high CD4 cell count at the start of treatment. Certain pregnant women and women with a CD4 cell count higher than 250 have the greatest risk. Contact your doctor right away if you develop a rash or symptoms of liver problems (eg, dark urine, yellowing of the eyes or skin, pale stools, stomach pain, nausea, loss of appetite, unusual tiredness).
Nevirapine suspension should only be used in patients who have been diagnosed with HIV. Do not use nevirapine suspension to prevent HIV infection if you have been exposed to the virus.
Serious and sometimes fatal skin reactions, including Stevens-Johnson syndrome and toxic epidermal necrolysis, and allergic reactions have been reported in some patients taking nevirapine suspension. These reactions may also affect other areas of the body (eg, liver, kidneys). The risk of skin reactions is greatest during the first 6 weeks of therapy but may occur at any time during treatment. Contact your doctor right away if you develop blisters or sores in the mouth; fever; general ill feeling; muscle or joint aches; rash, including red, swollen, blistered, or peeling skin; red or swollen eyes; severe tiredness; trouble breathing; swelling of the mouth or face; change in the amount of urine produced; or symptoms of liver problems.
Your doctor will check for side effects and perform lab tests, including liver function, while you use nevirapine suspension. Be sure to keep all doctor and lab appointments. Take nevirapine suspension exactly as prescribed by your doctor. If you develop a liver or skin problem, or if you have a severe allergic reaction to nevirapine suspension, you must not take it again.
Nevirapine suspension is used for:
Treating HIV infection. It must be used along with other HIV medicines.
Nevirapine suspension is a nonnucleoside reverse transcriptase inhibitor (NNRTI). It works by blocking the growth of HIV.
Do NOT use nevirapine suspension if:
- you are allergic to any ingredient in nevirapine suspension
- you have moderate to severe liver problems
- you have had a serious liver or skin reaction while taking nevirapine suspension
- you have not been diagnosed with HIV
- you are taking another medicine that contains nevirapine
- you are taking artemether/lumefantrine, bosutinib, cabazitaxel, delavirdine, efavirenz, etravirine, certain HIV protease inhibitors (eg, atazanavir, fosamprenavir), itraconazole, ketoconazole, lurasidone, rifampin, rilpivirine, or St. John's wort
Contact your doctor or health care provider right away if any of these apply to you.
Before using nevirapine suspension:
Some medical conditions may interact with nevirapine suspension. Tell your doctor or pharmacist if you have any medical conditions, especially if any of the following apply to you:
- if you are pregnant, planning to become pregnant, or are breast-feeding
- if you are taking any prescription or nonprescription medicine, herbal preparation, or dietary supplement
- if you have allergies to medicines, foods, or other substances
- if you have a history of liver problems (eg, cirrhosis, hepatic fibrosis, hepatitis), abnormal liver function tests, or certain skin problems (eg, growths, rash)
- if you have kidney problems or are receiving dialysis
- if you have a high CD4 cell count
Some MEDICINES MAY INTERACT with nevirapine suspension. Tell your health care provider if you are taking any other medicines, especially any of the following:
- Prednisone because the risk of severe skin rash may be increased
- Fluconazole because it may increase the risk of nevirapine suspension's side effects
- Rifamycins (eg, rifampin) or St. John's wort because they may decrease nevirapine suspension's effectiveness
- Anticoagulants (eg, warfarin) or rifabutin because the risk of their side effects may be increased by nevirapine suspension
- Antiarrhythmics (eg, amiodarone, disopyramide, lidocaine), artemether/lumefantrine, azole antifungals (eg, itraconazole, ketoconazole), bosutinib, cabazitaxel , calcium channel blockers (eg, diltiazem, nifedipine, verapamil), carbamazepine, cisapride, clarithromycin, clonazepam, cyclophosphamide, cyclosporine, delavirdine, efavirenz, ergot alkaloids (eg, ergotamine), ethosuximide, etravirine, exemestane, fentanyl, hormonal contraceptives (eg, birth control pills), hormone replacement therapy (eg, estradiol), lurasidone, methadone, protease inhibitors (eg, boceprevir, ritonavir), rilpivirine, sirolimus, tacrolimus, tyrosine kinase receptor inhibitors (eg, dasatinib), or ulipristal because their effectiveness may be decreased by nevirapine suspension
This may not be a complete list of all interactions that may occur. Ask your health care provider if nevirapine suspension may interact with other medicines that you take. Check with your health care provider before you start, stop, or change the dose of any medicine.
How to use nevirapine suspension:
Use nevirapine suspension as directed by your doctor. Check the label on the medicine for exact dosing instructions.
- Nevirapine suspension comes with an extra patient information sheet called a Medication Guide. Read it carefully. Read it again each time you get nevirapine suspension refilled.
- Take nevirapine suspension by mouth with or without food.
- Shake gently before each use.
- Use an oral dosing syringe or a dosing cup to take nevirapine suspension. Ask your pharmacist for help if you are unsure of how to measure your dose. If you are using a dosing cup, rinse it with water after you take your dose. Swallow the rinse water to be sure you receive the entire dose of medicine. If your dose is less than 1 teaspoon (5 mL), use a dosing syringe.
- Taking nevirapine suspension at the same time each day will help you remember to take it.
- Continue to take nevirapine suspension even if you feel well. Do not miss any doses.
- If you miss a dose of nevirapine suspension, take it as soon as possible. If it is almost time for your next dose, skip the missed dose and go back to your regular dosing schedule. Do not take 2 doses at once. If you miss taking nevirapine suspension for more than 7 days, contact your doctor before you start to take it again.
Ask your health care provider any questions you may have about how to use nevirapine suspension.
Important safety information:
- Do NOT change your dose or use for longer than prescribed without checking with your doctor.
- Nevirapine suspension is not a cure for HIV infection. Patients may still get illnesses and infections associated with HIV. Remain under the care of your doctor.
- When your medicine supply is low, get more from your doctor or pharmacist as soon as you can. Do not stop taking nevirapine suspension, even for a short period of time. If you do, the virus may grow resistant to the medicine and become harder to treat.
- Nevirapine suspension does not stop the spread of HIV to others through blood or sexual contact. Do not have any kind of sex without protection (eg, latex or polyurethane condoms) if you have HIV infection. Do not share needles, injection supplies, or items such as toothbrushes or razors. Talk with your health care provider about ways to prevent the spread of HIV to others.
- Changes in body fat (eg, an increased amount of fat in the upper back, neck, breast, and trunk, and loss of fat from the legs, arms, and face) may occur in some patients taking nevirapine suspension. The cause and long-term effects of these changes are unknown. Discuss any concerns with your doctor.
- Nevirapine suspension may improve immune system function. This may reveal hidden infections in some patients. Tell your doctor right away if you notice symptoms of infection (eg, fever, sore throat, weakness, cough, shortness of breath) after you start nevirapine suspension.
- Hormonal birth control (eg, birth control pills) may not work as well while you are using nevirapine suspension. To prevent pregnancy, use an extra form of birth control (eg, condoms).
- Lab tests, including liver and heart function, complete blood cell counts, and CD4 cell counts, may be performed while you use nevirapine suspension. These tests may be used to monitor your condition or check for side effects. Be sure to keep all doctor and lab appointments.
- Nevirapine suspension should be used with extreme caution in CHILDREN younger than 15 days old; safety and effectiveness in these children have not been confirmed.
- Caution is advised when using nevirapine suspension in CHILDREN; they may be more sensitive to its effects, especially anemia.
- PREGNANCY and BREAST-FEEDING: If you become pregnant, contact your doctor. You will need to discuss the benefits and risks of taking nevirapine suspension while you are pregnant. Nevirapine suspension is found in breast milk. Mothers infected with HIV should not breast-feed. There is a risk of passing the HIV infection or nevirapine suspension to the baby.
Possible side effects of nevirapine suspension:
All medicines may cause side effects, but many people have no, or minor, side effects. Check with your doctor if any of these most COMMON side effects persist or become bothersome:
Seek medical attention right away if any of these SEVERE side effects occur:
Diarrhea; headache; mild nausea or stomach pain; tiredness; vomiting.
Severe allergic reactions (rash; hives; itching; difficulty breathing; tightness in the chest; swelling of the mouth, face, lips, or tongue; unusual hoarseness); change in the amount of urine produced; eye irritation, pain, redness, or swelling; fever, chills, or persistent sore throat; flu-like symptoms or general feeling of being unwell; mouth sores; muscle or joint aches or pain; red, swollen, peeling, or blistered skin (with or without fever); swollen lymph glands; symptoms of liver problems (eg, yellowing of the skin or eyes; dark urine; loss of appetite; pale stools; severe, persistent, or unusual nausea or stomach pain); unusual tiredness or weakness.
This is not a complete list of all side effects that may occur. If you have questions about side effects, contact your health care provider. Call your doctor for medical advice about side effects. To report side effects to the appropriate agency, please read the Guide to Reporting Problems to FDA.
If OVERDOSE is suspected:
Contact 1-800-222-1222 (the American Association of Poison Control Centers), your local poison control center, or emergency room immediately.Proper storage of nevirapine suspension:
Store nevirapine suspension at room temperature, between 59 and 86 degrees F (15 and 30 degrees C). Store in a tightly closed container. Store away from heat, moisture, and light. Do not store in the bathroom. Keep nevirapine suspension out of the reach of children and away from pets.
General information:
- If you have any questions about nevirapine suspension, please talk with your doctor, pharmacist, or other health care provider.
- Nevirapine suspension is to be used only by the patient for whom it is prescribed. Do not share it with other people.
- If your symptoms do not improve or if they become worse, check with your doctor.
- Check with your pharmacist about how to dispose of unused medicine.
This information should not be used to decide whether or not to take nevirapine suspension or any other medicine. Only your health care provider has the knowledge and training to decide which medicines are right for you. This information does not endorse any medicine as safe, effective, or approved for treating any patient or health condition. This is only a brief summary of general information about nevirapine suspension. It does NOT include all information about the possible uses, directions, warnings, precautions, interactions, adverse effects, or risks that may apply to nevirapine suspension. This information is not specific medical advice and does not replace information you receive from your health care provider. You must talk with your healthcare provider for complete information about the risks and benefits of using nevirapine suspension.
Disclaimer: This information should not be used to decide whether or not to take this medicine or any other medicine. Only your health care provider has the knowledge and training to decide which medicines are right for you. This information does not endorse any medicine as safe, effective, or approved for treating any patient or health condition. This is only a brief summary of general information about this medicine. It does NOT include all information about the possible uses, directions, warnings, precautions, interactions, adverse effects, or risks that may apply to this medicine. This information is not specific medical advice and does not replace information you receive from your health care provider. You must talk with your healthcare provider for complete information about the risks and benefits of using this medicine.
More about nevirapine
- Side Effects
- During Pregnancy or Breastfeeding
- Dosage Information
- Drug Images
- Drug Interactions
- Support Group
- Pricing & Coupons
- En Español
- 3 Reviews – Add your own review/rating
- Drug class: NNRTIs
Consumer resources
Other brands: Viramune, Viramune XR


text:
RESIDENTS of the Little Malvern and Welland parish are being urged to have their say in shaping the future development of the village.
A questionnaire has been distributed this week as part of the parish council's Neighbourhood Development Plan.
"We want to get a good response from this," said parish council chairman Don Atkinson.
"It's only by getting the views of the residents can we ensure that our plan will deliver to people what they want, so I cannot stress strongly enough how vital it is that residents complete and return them.
"The responses and the ideas that are forwarded will be used to prepare policies on subjects such as planning and transport and will be adopted by Malvern Hills District Council to shape any future growth".
As a small thank-you every form that is returned will be entered into a £50 prize draw.


text:
ComputerWorld has posted a list of top questions that remain unanswered about iPhone. Things like...oh, I don't know...whether it will be offered unlocked, or whether battery life will suck. I know these questions are certainly on my mind.
Reader comments
20 Things We Don't Know about iPhone
3 Comments
Good Q's. I'll link to this.
Beware of companies, like ATT, that have to constantly change names in order to try to keep market share. Even if the Iphone wasn't saddled with a lame, nagging, incompatible interface like Itunes, having to deal with the horrendous customer service that Cingular or AT&T (or whatever name they are trying to hide behind) will make the device the biggest waste of money since the Fat Mac. Yes, I have $3800 worth of empty, orphaned, promise holding a door open at my house. I also have box with two useless phones that I bought from Cingular last year. I had to give up and get a real phone company when I couldn't even find a complaint department, let alone anyone who could do anything but ask me to deposit more money.


text:
International Humphrey Fellows Observe the U.S. Election Process
As residents in the region headed to the polls on Nov. 6, the Humphrey fellows at American University Washington College of Law embarked on a day-long observation of the election process.
The Hubert H. Humphrey Fellowship Program participants are legal scholars and professionals from around the world. The program, sponsored by the State Department and operated out of the International Legal Studies program, provides these international fellows with non-degree academic study and professional experiences in the United States.
Alongisde American University professors and election experts Robert Pastor and George Guess, International Programs Coordinator Melanija Radnovic, and staff assistant Daniel Enos, fellows observed a number of polling stations in Arlington County, Virginia; Montgomery County, Maryland; and the District of Columbia. They talked with Chief Election Judges at each location.
The group asked questions about the intricacies of provisional ballots, voter ID requirements, the staffing of polling places, and the challenges and advantages of working with electronic voting machines, among other topics. Fellows also commented on the differences and similarities between elections in their countries and the United States.
"I have been studying the U.S. election,"said Tashi Gyalpo of Bhutan of his experience at the polls. "I recently attended a talk about elections with European parliament members, and after that I learned that the United States is decentralized, and everything is based on trust. I was so surprised that despite the fact that the U.S. doesn't have uniform systemic laws to govern elections, it still works. It's been a nice experience to be here. I found the polling stations quite organized."
Liping Chen, from China, also shared that in her country the local people's congresses are directly elected, with the other levels of government being indirectly elected.
"Maybe for Americans this seems very normal, but everyone was very quiet," said Chen after observing a polling station. "For me, this is a big difference. That's a good thing, though."
In the afternoon, the group stopped by Common Cause, a non-profit, non-partisan organization that promotes open, honest, and accountable government. The group sat in on a press conference where organization leaders reported and discussed instances of voter abuse, and the situation at the polls for those citizens impacted by Hurricane Sandy. President and CEO of Common Cause, Bob Edgar, talked with fellows about the organization's work to protect voters.
"It was a deep analysis about the elections, and an incomparable experience," said Burak Turan Benli of Turkey. "Mr. Edgar gave a great analysis of the electoral system. Earlier at the polling stations, we were able to ask so many questions. It was great. We did see problems with voter participation and waiting time."
At the end of the day, the group followed the ballots to the Montgomery County Board of Elections, where they watched the ballot counting process, and talked with Election Director Margaret Jorgensen and other members of the Board. They returned to the law school in time to hear the election results.
"The Fellows were absolutely grateful and elated for the opportunity to get a close-up look at the U.S. presidential election," said Melanija Radnovic, International Programs coordinator. "They noticed differences at voting locations in the different states we visited, and had interesting ideas and suggestions for improving the process. In days to come, the fellows will continue to think about this unique experience and the ways the U.S. election system compares with their own countries' election systems."
Full list of 2012-2013 Humphrey Fellows


text:
Is there a way to make a Triangle Symbol pointing Up and Down, respectively?
I want these to use next to a Column Heading for sorting purposes...
A quick search for "css triangles" and Bingo, over a million results.
This one was top of the list:
I already saw that, BUT I asked this question in the HTML Forum because I thought there might be an HTML symbol I could use - like the ampersand...
Your suggestion sure seems like a lot of code and effort for just a triangle.
Plus, I need my PHP code to be able to easily toggle between an Up Triangle and Down Triangle, and I'm not sure how I'd do that with your CSS suggestion...
You could use unicode characters ▲ and ▼ if you like. If your pages are served as UTF-8 you can just copy chose characters and insert them. Otherwise, use the character references ▲ and ▼ or ▲ and ▼ respectively.
Those are exactly the characters that I was looking for!
How would I know that??
What are all of those characters?
You can check the encoding that your server is sending out in your browser's dev tools. For example, in the Network panel of the Chrome dev tools, click on the page and you'll see your resosponse headers, which will include something like this:
Content-Type:text/html; charset=UTF-8
They are the Unicode references for those characters. So, paste ▲ into a .html file and open it in your browser and you'll see the up arrow:
<!DOCTYPE html>

<meta charset="utf-8">

`50;

Here we go:
$title='Toggle Up and Down Arrows';
if( ! isset($_SESSION) ):
$_SESSION['toggle'] = isset($_SESSION['toggle'] ) ? $_SESSION['toggle'] : FALSE;
$_SESSION['toggle'] = ! $_SESSION['toggle'] ;
$toggle = $_SESSION['toggle'] ? '«' : '»';
$direction = $_SESSION['toggle'] ? 'UP' : 'DOWN';
?><!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"


text:
Sat February 11, 2017 - 2:00 PM
San Jose, CA, 2017
Event Center at San Jose State University
290 S. 7th Street
San Jose, CA
Seating at the Event Center is General Admission for Women's Basketball. For a Doubleheader (DH), it's GA after a Men's game if they play first or GA before a Men's game if they play second. Ticket sales through...See More


text:
Courtesy of the NYR:
October 27, 2011 (Game 8, Home Game 1)
Madison Square Garden – New York, New York
Team Notes:
-The Rangers were defeated by the Toronto Maple Leafs, 4-2, tonight in the Blueshirts' home opener at Madison Square Garden.
-New York held Toronto scoreless in four power play opportunities (5:24), and are now 20-22 (90.9%) while shorthanded in the last five games.
-The Rangers were credited with 19 blocked shots, led by Dan Girardi and Michael Sauer who recorded three blocked shots apiece.
Player Notes:
-Dan Girardi opened the game's scoring with an even strength goal while skating four on four at 6:23 of the first period. He also tied for the game-high with three blocked shots in 23:03 of ice time. Girardi has now registered four points (one goal, three assists) in the last four games, and is tied for first among team defensemen in points (four) and ranks first in assists (three).
-Michael Del Zotto notched an unassisted goal at 15:26 of the third period, registered a team-high-tying three hits, and was credited with two blocked shots in 19:51 of ice time. He has now tallied a point in each of the last two games (one goal, one assist). Del Zotto also extended his streak of posting a plus or even rating to eight consecutive games to begin the season, and leads the team with a plus-four rating.
-Marian Gaborik recorded the primary assist, his first of the season, on Girardi's first period goal, and registered four shots on goal and two blocked shots in a season-high, 23:14 of ice time. He is now tied for the team lead in points (five) and shots on goal (32), and ranks first in goals (four).
-Artem Anisimov also tallied an assist on Girardi's first period goal, and is now tied for third on the team in assists (three).
-Henrik Lundqvist stopped 32 of 36 shots, and has now posted a record of 2-3-2 with a 2.14 goals against average, a .934 save percentage and one shutout. He has now turned aside 30 or more shots in four of his last five games. Lundqvist is 4-1-1 with a 2.72 goals against average and a .918 save percentage in six career home-opening games at Madison Square Garden.
-Ryan Callahan led all skaters with six shots on goal, tied for the team-high with three hits and logged 20:56 of ice time while making his Broadway debut as Rangers' captain.
-Michael Sauer tied for the game-high with three blocked shots in 21:42 of ice time while making his return to the lineup after missing the previous five games due to a shoulder injury sustained on October 8.
-Brad Richards led the Rangers with 23:54 of ice time and registered three shots on goal while making his Broadway debut. He now leads all team forwards and ranks third on the Rangers in average ice time (21:18).
-Brandon Dubinsky won six of eight faceoff attempts (75%), and now leads the team with a 55.4% faceoff winning percentage (56-101)
Post-Game Quotes:
–John Tortorella on tonight's game…
"I think we had juice just coming back home and playing in front of the crowd and all the things going on around us. The first period was probably our best period of the year."
–Ryan Callahan on tonight's game…
"I thought we had a pretty good first period with some sustained pressure. We created some opportunities and got a lot of pucks to the net, which we wanted to do, as well as get some bodies to the net in the first (period)… The crowd was great and definitely gave us a lift in the first period."
–Henrik Lundqvist on the atmosphere in Madison Square Garden…
"It was great. It's always great to play here. Coming back here after so many games on the road, we definitely were looking for a better start. But we have to forget about this one and get ready for Saturday."