text:
AnandTech: A Brief History of Timeby Jason Clark on 7/26/2004 6:52 PM EST
- Posted in
- IT Computing
67 Comments
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bobbozzo - Monday, August 09, 2004 - linkJason, would you be willing to publish your # of monthly pageviews?
We're running a single quad xeon server and wondering whether to get a faster server or a cluster. We're at almost 4million page views/mo; over 1/3 of those are searching our database.
Thanks Reply
JasonClark - Monday, August 02, 2004 - linkA behind the scenes hardware upgrade is coming soon. Reply
czakalw3 - Monday, August 02, 2004 - link"have learned more in 3-4 years than some people do in their entire career."
nice one.
beyond all the technical considerations, it seems your change of platform is nothing but a "were already commited to ms in the os so why not go all the way?"
dont label me as a fundamentalist but cost could easily be 0 with the same results? Reply
czakalw3 - Monday, August 02, 2004 - linkerr
Devnut - Saturday, July 31, 2004 - linkOne thing that seemed to be lacking in this article that was present in all the past "anandtech upgrade" articles, was much more detail in relation to the hardware changes/upgrades, and why you did what you did.
I noticed Jason indicated SQL2000 was running on a quad opteron, so there's obviously been some significant changes. Can we expect an update on this front? Reply
Zoomer - Friday, July 30, 2004 - linkWould you please post load information for your quad opteron?
It would be interesting, to say the least. Reply
Staples - Thursday, July 29, 2004 - linkI saw this article posted a few days ago but just decided to look at the comments to see how many posts it took for the Linux fanboys to show themselves. Apparently not long. Anywho, I am just starting out with the whole .net thing since I have heard such good things about it. This article is just another one. Reply
RZaakir - Thursday, July 29, 2004 - linkMan I wish the these PHP fanboys would realize that Microsoft actually has a few good products. I think that PHP is superior to ASP classic in many ways but PHP (version 4 anyway) and ASP.NET aren't even in the same league. Period. You'd be better off making a JSP vs. ASP.NET argument as they are similar products.
Does MySQL have stored procedures in a production version yet? Reply
JasonClark - Thursday, July 29, 2004 - linkFFS, I don't care for HardOCP's design, it's dated and the black background isnt for us... THe design looks great, I think the only way to get more clean is to remove more ads... but that isn't going to happen. Speed-wise, I think you have some issues somewhere, here the page shows in less than 3 tenths of a second. Benchmarks indicate about 2 tenths. Reply
Macaw - Thursday, July 29, 2004 - linkYou've been blogged: http://blogs.msdn.com/jrule
FFS - Thursday, July 29, 2004 - linkClean design it's a half of succes.
Look at Google - it is not only that powerfully search made it popular like now, but super clean design too.
The Inquirer is also nice and clean...
I 100% understand that you can't please 'em all :).
But cleanness also will bring more speed... Correct me if I'm wrong
And you still could have a style as well (that's why I mentioned [H]ard|OCP - even thou I'm not such a big fun of black and red) Reply
simms - Thursday, July 29, 2004 - linkWe still need a :cookie; emoticon. Reply
SlingXShot - Thursday, July 29, 2004 - linkWith all these Anandtech versions, anandtech should be an artifical inteligence already. :-D Reply
JasonClark - Thursday, July 29, 2004 - linkFFS: Can't please em all :). We're happy with it, i do agree about the white background. It's something we're looking at, but it isnt an easy fix with the css layout.
L8r. Reply
FFS - Thursday, July 29, 2004 - linkIt is very good article indeed...
About speed subjectively it loads slower and slower for me on my FireFox 0.9.2. - but of cause you have benchmarked everything :)
Once I've read on Inq that there are two types of hardware lies: lies and benchmarks :)))
However improving the code for the better one and therefore the speed it is not the only thing about nice web page.
Another thing is design. And I have to admit (again from my point of view) that from version 3 to 5 its mostly regressed.
Especially that gray background covering the article so it's impossible to read during the page loading time, which a pretty long.
PLEASE remove that gray background (keep it white like on v.3)
Tabs on the top - good idea, but bad realization - no clean borders - small fonts e.t.c.
Again news section - even worst one gray on another gray - have you herd about contrast colors? :((
Too be honest best hardware-review site design so far is [H]ard|OCP...
Funny but for me this article sound like excuse for the creating the page, which loads adds very fast but ...(see above)
Is that a hidden feature of .NET We could expect everything from MS (even anti-virus prog :))
Don't get me wrong - I'm also using WinXP, and have the same opinion about it - it is not less stable then Linux in good hands,
although not that stable as Mac OS X even in "simple" hands (again I'm not Apple fun as it could seemed)...
Sorry it was already too much I wrote.
As resume - great team, superb reviews, but sorry - bad web page... Reply
Macaw - Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - linkNice article.
The whole .NET framework is pretty extensive. I have some nice things on image-generation from .NET if you want the source. You can use GDI+ from .NET to generate uber cool graphs.
JasonClark - Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - linkSlingXShot, lol jobless? We innovate, so that means writing new code and improving all the time. Sitting on the same code for 10 years doesn't seem very innovative to me. There is ALWAYS room for improvement, thus versions. If people didn't freshen their code we'd still be running windows 3.11 for workgroups, yek.
Brickster, we're using SQL Server 2000 on Windows 2003 Enterpise server. That is running on a quad opteron 848 with 8GB of ram and 150 GB Raid 10 array. Can we say overkill :)
SlingXShot - Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - linkJasonClark, just that you have so many version of Anandtech, I guess you need the new versions of software to change code or you would be jobless right? Reply
Brickster - Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - linkJason, maybe I missed it, but what database platform are you using with the latest AT 5.0?
Thanks again!
Brickster Reply
fbaum - Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - link
Heyyo Jason, thx for the reply, and for qualifying the graphs. Would love to see a fair platform compario but that would be a lot of work and as you pointed out that's not really the point. I'm using VS 2003 on a project now, developing a C# .NET web service to interface with a B2B messaging hub, it's kind of complex, and I'm yearning a bit for the more immediately gratifying CF web development I had on my previous project. As a CF fan I felt compelled to put in my $0.02.
Felix Reply
Brickster - Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - linkGreat article!!! Thank you so much for publishing this, as it is a testament to Anandtech's drive to help the community understand and appreciate hardware AND software technology for all that it can help us in our personal and business ventures.
Personally, I am starting a database driven website, and have been looking for advice on what approach to take. This insight has helped me TREMENDOUSLY, and I thank you for the article!
Keep up the good work and do let us know how things go!
Brickster Reply
JasonClark - Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - linkGeesh jason, spell. Use what best fits your business. Reply
JasonClark - Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - linkAutomaticErik, and .NET has a lot of advantages over PHP, PHP is most certainly no better than .NET. They both have their uses, and their different target markets. Use what your best fits your business, thats the bottom line. PHP does not fit our system infrastructure, so we use .NET. Reply
washboard - Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - linkMaybe this is not the place, BUT
Using Mozilla 1.7 with "enable Java Script on" site loads very slow. With it off the site is snappy. Don't have the problem with IE. Have a very fast DSL connection. Love this site, keep up the good work.
John Coleman Reply
AutomaticErik - Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - linkI've been doing web design and database management for years and I've never once run across a project that wouldn't be able to use PHP/MySQL. I think most don't realize the true power you have with a PHP/MySQL setup. Its certainly every bit as powerful as any of the other soultions out there and in most tests and benchmarks, its faster and more efficient. I've even run personal benchmarks and found this to be true.
All in all, people use what they are comfortable with and in that respect, PHP isn't for everyone. But it does hold many advantages over .NET. Most just don't mess around with it enough to find that out. Reply
JasonClark - Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - linkSling, we actually should run whatever we want to..., or whatever we feel works well in our environment. PHP isn't for everyone and holds no advantage over .NET. .NET is free, granted the OS is not but neither are commercial linux solutions like redhat or suse?. Again, we like windows, it works just as well as linux and fits our needs just fine.
L8r. Reply
SlingXShot - Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - linkBtw Jason, you have a bug. You should write some kind of script to warn the user when clicking Post Comment when this form box is empty. Reply
SlingXShot - Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - linkSo many updates, you guys should have started with php, no costs running that. With PHP when there is an update, and you are using old code, there is always a easy very around it, with quick fixes. I can't wait to play around with PHP 5. Reply
SlingXShot - Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - linkReply
sonicDivx - Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - linkJason,
Thx for the reply, yeah I was wondering would make a great case study. Also be a good lesson for developers. Glad its all worked for ya, and my interest is peaked in looking at VS 2003.
That's cool. I'll tell my co-worker who is Alpha testing Blackstone (next version of CF) that they really need to keep these things in mind. Reply
PorBleemo - Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - linkvda #30:
You forget that their servers are a little more powerful then 166Mhz. Reply
JasonClark - Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - linkfelix,
No where in the comparison did we say the performance comparison was CF vs .NET, well aware that there are some differences in page layout along with architecture. The comparison was the old site to the new site. For us to do a fair comparions the code would have to be quite similar, and even then it is still not apples to apples. Overall, platform, css and a re-architecture of the site brought us some large gains (as illustrated).
Yes we had already invested in licensing, but with some JRUN related issues that went unresolved, and the cost of future licensing .NET was a better choice for us.
RAD is great, but honestly with Visual Studio 2003, the argument isn't as great as you might think. Reply
fbaum - Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - link
Hey ho...
Just noted that your interface from pure HTML to CSS doesn't really result in an apples to apples comparison of cf to vb.NET performance. No matter how you slice it, larger pages = slower rendering site. Taking down pages from 130K down to around 45K in HTML would yield huge performance gains without changing your app server, and wouldn't have required you to redevelop code, just presentation.
Got to agree, the VS IDE is slick. But I'm a RAD fan and a cf fan, I like having useful builtin functions to call upon, and .NET coding sometimes makes development that should be easy harder than it should be.
Why rewrite? Your server licenses are already bought, right?
Disclaimer: my email address ends in @macromedia.com, consider my comments accordingly
-Felix Reply
kenny4269 - Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - linkNice article, always interesting to read behind the scenes stuff.
I work as a computer tech and have one thing to say about Windows. Outside of the security holes (which ANY OS can have), most Windows problems are caused by the user. Keeping up to date with patches, antivirus, not opening attachments, etc. all all things that MUST be done on ANY OS (open source or not). If you download BonziBuddy on your Windows PC or some poorly written Linux app, you can still have problems.
Don't get me wrong, I like Linux, but don't tell me it's perfect choice for everything just because it's open source. Reply
JasonClark - Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - linksonixDivx, the performance gain was a combination of our new layout (removing the news), and the architecture of our .NET version. But, the way we wrote the .NET site is similar to writing a ColdFusion app with CFC's as the backend, very similar. I'm not sure we'll do a comparison of the two, since the two sites are fairly different in layout and content.
Cheers Reply
JasonClark - Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - linkvda:
What happens when a 18 year old genius has the source code to the operating system that your entire system architecture relies on? Then exploits a vulnerability in the source code (yes unix developers make mistakes, enough that redhat network sends out a constant stream of e-mail :)).
Then that exploit (which was easy to find as you had source code) takes your network down and costs you thousands every hour? There is another side to the open source argument, I'm not saying I don't believe in the movement, but your argument is one-sided.
BTW, the registry has never been corrupt for us, and that's what emergency backup disks are for btw, I certainly hope you don't run linux assuming it will never break :).
Phiro: we use Linux Virtual Server (vda are you reading this? LINUX virtual server :)). We use 5 web servers run the site, we could run off of 1 except on extremely busy days. We like redundancy. Reply
vda - Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - link> In regards to linux, our expertise lies in windows and it hasn't given us any grief what so ever
Problems do happen with every OS. Now, when Windows hangs on you, what do you do? When registry got corrupted, what do you do?
Nothing. You can do nothing because you have no source of the damn thing. You have next to nothing in regard to debugging facilities. No strace. No gdb. No kernel debugger. Disassembling stuff is
possible but illegal.
It does not matter for "yesterday's advanced user"
style admins and web designers, for they are Gates' target audience.
For me, it does matter. Reply
vda - Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - link> Code is as bloated as the developer makes it, experience, experience...
Hehe. Our corporate Internet gateway have
lots of stuff. Tons of network utils
(nmap, mtr, tcpdump, iptables, traffic shaper)
and services (*transparent chaching web proxy*,
www, mail, secure ftp, DNS server, DNS cache).
It runs on Pentium 166 and 40Mb of RAM.
Try to install Windows NT on that.
vda Reply
vda - Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - linkI once said this:
'What happens when you read some doc and either it doesn't answer your question or is demonstrably wrong? In Linux, you say "Linux sucks" and go read the code. In Windows/Oracle/etc you say "Windows sucks" and start banging your head against the wall.'
To my surprize, it even propagated into some .signature files :) Reply
Aaron - Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - linkA well written C++ .Net ISAPI filter on IIS beat out Apache in any confguration last I checked.
Anandtech Team: Are you looking to add any additional developers to your team? I am a senior .net dev / usability designer / MS SQL Server DBA / systems architect. Work on your application would make a welcome addition to my resume. Email me if you are interested.
aaron.dezeeuw #at# gmail.com Reply
Phiro - Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - linkSo how are you laid out? Are your web servers clustered? Are you using App Center? Component Load Balancing? Request forwarding? Reply
JasonClark - Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - linkIn regards to linux, our expertise lies in windows and it hasn't given us any grief what so ever. Windows can be stable if it is administrated properly.
Code is as bloated as the developer makes it, experience, experience... Reply
joeld - Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - linkalfatekpt - what are the advantages of PHP/MySql over Windows and the .Net platform? I haven't researched this much, but I am under the impression that a SQL server is better than a MySQL server, and would guess that PHP/Apache would be a little faster than IIS/.NET, but that's just a guess. I know it's very easy to code on .NET, which can make your pages bloated if you are not careful - something that hardly happens with PHP. Reply
alfatekpt - Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - linkYou have servers with high needs and you use Windows and .NET plataform... I don't need to be a big *nix zealot to say that is so wrong...
You never tried PHP/MySql? You can save the money in software to hire a linux sys admin to tune your servers... Reply
vda - Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - linkReply
vda - Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - linkDid you ever considered using Linux? Reply
sonicDivx - Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - linkVery Interesting. Im a ColdFusion developer so kinda bummed that you had switched. Looking at the performance numbers, I was wondering was % of improvement can be attributed to .Net and wondering did you try recoded routines in MX to do a performance comparisons ( always new ways to skin a cat).
Just curious from an informational standpoint.
Thx Reply
ChucklesHB - Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - linkI got turned onto Anandtech about... 2 years ago (the 3.0 version was only around a short time) and I've been a fan ever since.
As a web developer myself, it's great to see sites that don't have an issue with showing the evolution of the technology behind the scenes. Thanks for a peek behind the curtains. ;) Reply
Creig - Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - linkIt'd be nice to be able to go through the old news/forums again. Maybe they could be rehosted on a "Limited time only" basis so the oldtimers could reminisce and the newcomers could see cutting edge overclocking with a 300a Celeron that would do 450. :) Reply
RZaakir - Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - linkCool article,
But come on now, ASP.NET syntax is VERY different from ASP. If for no other reason than the fact that you're going from VBScript to VB and Javascript to J#/C#.
Not to mention the other features like User/Server controls (as opposed to SSIs), Assemblies (as opposed to COM Objects), and language independence. Though ASP was a bit more flexible than many people thought on the latter. Reply
Dennis Travis - Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - linkGreat Job with the site Jason as always and it was interesting to see how far things have come along since I first started visiting here.
Keep up the great work.
...Dennis Reply
stoneranger - Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - linkkewl read, I enjoyed it. Really. I think it is very interesting the progress the industry has made. Things are actually getting easier. I love anand tech. Of course I could be considered a geek by some. But I think it is by far one of the best sites on the web.
Frozen7 - Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - linkReply
Frozen7 - Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - linkReply
Da3dalus - Monday, July 26, 2004 - linkNice to see some of the earlier designs, I didn't visit this place in the 1.0 to 3.0 days. Reply
cameronj - Monday, July 26, 2004 - linkUnder the 5.0 heading it says "
Hardware used in version 4.0
5 x Dual AMD Athlon MP 1900+ w/ 1GB Memory"
Interesting article though :) Reply
CrystalBay - Monday, July 26, 2004 - linkAhh The Celery Report...Do you guys have all this stuff archived ? Reply
CompMan86 - Monday, July 26, 2004 - linkTwo errors: 1) The second graph on the conclusion page, the caption says "the graph below" instead of "the graph above." Also, "SQL Sever/Sybase world and while" on page 2 should say Server, not sever. Minor mistakes, just thought I'd give you the heads up. Otherwise, awesome article!
And in response to the target=_blank comment, you have no control over window size or window attributes (like toolbars) with that. target=_blank is good when linking to an external site, but if you want to have a customized popup, javascript IS the standard. Reply
quanta - Monday, July 26, 2004 - linkWhy the site keep on using Javascript to open a new window when it can be done using 'target=_blank' attribiute? Is that Anandtech's idea of 'standard compliance'? Reply
PorBleemo - Monday, July 26, 2004 - linkGreat job Jason! Always an interesting change to see site background like this... Reply
STaSh - Monday, July 26, 2004 - linkKeep up the great work guys. The site is very fast, and I really enjoy these behind the scenes articles. Reply
JasonClark - Monday, July 26, 2004 - linkThanks for the comments thus far, some answers:
1) Very true regarding what you can buy for a reasonable sum of money these days. We have been running the same hardware for over 2 years now, and I don't see any changes any time soon. The Dual Athlon MP's are holding up just fine, especially with the headroom we have from the performance jump the .NET migration gave. I'd say hardware has gone ahead of load, you need less to do more for less money, if that makes sense :)
2) We are all IDE in the webservers, no need for scsi as everything is in memory after initial compilation. The DB server has only changed in space, as the databases are growing, especially the statistics database..
Jeff7181 - Monday, July 26, 2004 - linkExcellent article... I've always wondered what kind of server AnandTech was hosted on. Very interesting. I do have a couple questions though that were answered though.
#1 Besides bandwidth of course, has the cost of the hardware stayed pretty much the same? I mean, $15,000 today buys A LOT more power than it did 2 years ago simply because more power is available now. With loads considered (more users now than when the site first started) is the cost pretty much the same to get hardware capable of handling the load? In other words, has the cost of the hardware grown more in line with load, or technology?
#2 How has your disk storage needs changed, what drives were used in your first server and what ones are used now? Reply
Locutus4657 - Monday, July 26, 2004 - linkCool, .Net is deffonetly a great platform to develope in... I've been trying to convince my boss that if we switched away from PHP/MySQL and went to .Net/Posgres (or MSSQL) all of our problems would be solved!
Carlo Reply
tfranzese - Monday, July 26, 2004 - linkNot a bad job. I can relate to .NET as I recently had to jump into it for a client at work for a web application they speced out. It definately is a different animal compared to ASP. Reply
GokieKS - Monday, July 26, 2004 - linkBeen reading the site since the version 2.0 days, and this certainly brings back some memories and gives some interesting insights. Good job. =)
~KS Reply
darkswordsman17 - Monday, July 26, 2004 - linkCool article. I'm a relatively new member and found this to be fairly interesting.
Also, keep up the great work! Reply


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A Journey of the Heart
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A Look at Intel HD 5000 GPU Performance Compared to HD 4000by Anand Lal Shimpi on 6/24/2013 6:02 PM EST
55 Comments
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coolhardware - Monday, June 24, 2013 - linkI would kill for some solid data on how the entire Haswell lineup does at Starcraft 2 (SC2). It is one of the only games I play and I would love to know what FPS I could expect at a variety of resolutions and quality settings.
Any chance Anandtech can run some benchmarks? Pretty please :-) Reply
Sushisamurai - Monday, June 24, 2013 - linkNotebook benchmarks with comparable GPU setup rates the hd5000 around 60 FPS avg for HOTS on medium graphics. 24 & 14 for high and ultra high respectively :( Reply
althaz - Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - linkThe HD 4000 plays the acceptably with medium graphics (it's one of the primary reasons I bought a Surface Pro). Reply
Krysto - Thursday, July 11, 2013 - linkWho plays Starcraft on a 10" screen? Reply
lolipopman - Wednesday, August 20, 2014 - linkWho plays Starcraft? Reply
mikk - Monday, June 24, 2013 - linkNo RAM infos. If this Intel HD graphics comparison is mixed with Dualchannel and Singlechannel results it is misleading. Reply
coder543 - Monday, June 24, 2013 - linkIt's probably all MacBook Airs, so that shouldn't be an issue. Reply
mikk - Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - linkThere are more notebooks with singlechannel configuration sold as you might think. Unfortunately some reviewers are unable to run some tools like CPUz to check if it runs in dualchannel or in singlechannel mode. Furthermore Anands 3dmark 2013 Firestrike result is 15% slower than another HD5000 Macbook from notebookcheck. With such tests it is also important to run it in high performance mode. No info here if he did or not. Reply
A5 - Monday, June 24, 2013 - linkNo one is going to ship a single channel memory configuration. At least no one worth buying from. Reply
justsome1 - Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - linkel-cheapo Dell ships single channel "ultrabooks" and even some Asus ones. Reply
Benk78 - Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - linkLenovo Yoga 13 is in single channel too. Reply
ikjadoon - Thursday, July 11, 2013 - linkI tried searching, but nothing recent; what is the memory bandwidth difference between dual and single and what is the difference in real-world usage?
Can't be stunningly slower, as the Yoga 13 uses single-channel and I've never seen it docked points for "slow performance." Reply
TheinsanegamerN - Saturday, July 13, 2013 - linkgraphics are very bandwidth heavy. the bandwidth difference: single channel 1600 is 12.8 gigabytes per second, while dual channel is 25.6 giabyte per second. when the graphics are using system memory, every gigabyte counts. moving from single to dual channel with ivy bridge pushed over 60% higher framerates with the same laptop, so the difference with the more powerful haswell chip will be even more noticeable.
and the yoga 13 is not put through graphically intensive work, hence the reason nobody reviews it as slow. Reply
TheinsanegamerN - Saturday, July 13, 2013 - linkfor reference, the relatively old and low end amd hd 6650m has 25.6 gigabyte of bandwidth all for itself, and is considered bandwidth starved. it is also similar to intel hd 4600 in terms of game performance. and intel hd graphics have to share bandwidth with the system, so single channel is dog slow with anything intensive. Reply
FITCamaro - Thursday, August 28, 2014 - linkWhat are you talking about? I see tons on hardware on here reviewed that includes only a single DIMM which means single channel. Reply
monstercameron - Monday, June 24, 2013 - linkso that is gt3...where is the thunder? Reply
sherlockwing - Monday, June 24, 2013 - linkThe 15W TDP is limiting its power, my guess is you can't get to see its full power of GT3 without the 28W TDP that Iris have. Reply
ImSpartacus - Monday, June 24, 2013 - linkASUS is cramming one of those into a relatively slim 13.3" laptop. I'm excited to see how it does.
The rMBP13'13 will probably have someone similar, but its chassis can handle 35W CPUs. So I'm hesitant to think that Apple will give up 7W (and whatever the PCH puts out). Does anyone else smell a custom 35W GT3 chip? Reply
A5 - Monday, June 24, 2013 - linkI'd wager that they use the thermal headroom to make sure it spends more time at the higher modes. Nothing wrong with running a bit cooler, either. Reply
dylan522p - Monday, June 24, 2013 - linkThey could just let it boost up more/longer. Reply
TheinsanegamerN - Saturday, July 13, 2013 - linkthis. notice that less cpu intensive games see a much higher performance boost, since the cpu cores dont have to boost as high, while more demanding games dont speed up much at all. the high temperatures also impacted the boost clocks, something else the macbook pro should remedy. Reply
A5 - Monday, June 24, 2013 - linkCheck the battery life tests in the main article. Reply
Roland00Address - Monday, June 24, 2013 - linkSo in other words there is very little reason for OEMS to pay the $50 extra for the hd5000 instead of the hd4400, unless they use cTDP up? cTDP would allow the maximum tdp to go up giving the graphics more headroom to high the higher turbos.
Then again if the OEMs would be okay with better cooling to use the higher cTDP chips why wouldn't they just go the for the chip with the base tdp of 28 watts instead of 15? You can even get iris 5100 in the 28w chips thus you can use the iris marketing.
Is anybody going to use the hd5000 besides apple? Reply
ImSpartacus - Monday, June 24, 2013 - linkDo the 28W chips cTDP up? And to what TDP? Reply
IntelUser2000 - Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - linkThere's no cTDPup in the 28W and 15W GT3 chips. The 15W GT2 does however. Reply
Ikefu - Monday, June 24, 2013 - linkVery cool, definitely good for comparisons to Ivy Bridge. I'd really like to see those same game benchmarks for Haswell GT2 graphics as well. I'd like a Haswell convertible but I want to see how much an upgrade from HD4400 to HD5000 nets me. Thanks! Reply
mavere - Monday, June 24, 2013 - linkThe HD5000's underwhelming performance boost really is interesting because that higher price tag seems to be doing very very little, and Apple isn't the type to cut into its profit margins just for the hell of it.
Anand, do you know if compute/openCL benchmarks perform any differently? Reply
iwod - Monday, June 24, 2013 - linkAgain the main problem with Intel Graphics are drivers. Intel tends to stop development of previous generation graphics drivers once they have a new generation of graphics Arch out. Which is schedule to appear for Broadwell SoC. This wouldn't be much of a problem for since they develop their own graphics drivers. Sometimes i wonder if this means Apple get a much heifier discount from Intel since Intel spend less resources on the Mac Platform.
Given the performance of Intel 5000 i understand why Apple doesn't want to make the Air Retina. Reply
ilkhan - Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - linkWhat is the program used to grab the power usage graph? Would love to be able to collect that info myself. Reply
mikk - Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - linkThis is Intels Extreme Tuning Utility.
Btw, I miss also here some GPU frequency recordings with GPUz. It would be interesting to know how far the turbo goes up in games. Reply
IntelUser2000 - Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - linkIt won't work with GPU-Z, you need to use HWINFO. GPU-Z is pretty crap for Intel iGPUs. Reply
MrSpadge - Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - linkIn the article you're often referring to these chips having "less thermal headroom". I'd rather say they are power constrained: attach a better cooler (not easy in an Ultrabook, but possible) and these chips won't perform any better, just because they're already using their full 15 W under load. If the chips were thermally limited you should hear the fan screaming.. which you didn't, as I understand from the article.
BTW: it would be really nice to see measured power draw while running these benchmarks as well. This would make Haswell look even better compared to Ivy. And average clock speeds could also reveal some more.. maybe HD5000 has to clock so low in that 15 W config that the voltage already hits the absolute minimum and further sclaing down couldn't improve efficiency over HD4400. For this one would need to read out the voltages or at least know the frequency-voltage curves of these GPUs. Would be nice if you could do either of this :) Reply
Shadowmaster625 - Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - linkWow what a waste it is to use HD5000. It is only fractionally better than HD4400. All those transistors... wasted. Reply
tipoo - Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - linkIt's primarily for the lower power required. With more EUs, they can run at lower clock speed and voltages to perform as well with less power used. In the 28W versions (presumably headed for the 13" MBP) we'll see how the GT3 can really perform when power is less of a consideration. Reply
Penti - Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - linkMacBook Pros at least the 15 inch will use non-single chip quad-core processors, also the 13.3 inch version uses 35W chips today. They could bump that one to the 47W GT3e part if they wanted performance, as that would roughly put it slightly under the old 15.6 inch pros in graphics performance. You just have to wait and see what the refreshes and new models brings when it comes to Haswell, Apple or not Apple for that matter. Lots of PC's simply use the dual-core GT2-part for example. The single-chip ULT-parts doesn't have any external PCIe links for any gpu. Don't think 5000 and 5100 Iris graphics really matters that much either. 28W parts are just about CPU-performance. All depends on where they want to take it. Reply
IntelUser2000 - Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - linkThe 28W Iris Graphics 5100 is 30% faster in Bioshock 2 and Tomb Raider. Reply
IntelUser2000 - Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - linkCompared to the HD 5000 I mean. :P Reply
Penti - Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - linkSounds reasonable when you factor in much faster cpu, and slightly faster (clocks) gpu. Reply
icrf - Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - linkHonest question, not trying to troll: is there a purpose to better graphics outside from gaming or professional applications? Have we already reached a baseline of UI acceleration for common office / browsing / content consumption tasks? Basically, if I'm not running Crysis or Photoshop, should I care? Will I notice anything? Reply
hova - Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - linkYou will notice it when playing high res videos on the web and also when scrolling through heavy websites (if the browser takes good usage of the GPU).
By far the biggest purpose is for higher resolution "retina like" screens. And all this is just for the "regular" office/web user. Like you said gamers and professionals will also like having more graphic performance in a more portable form factor. It's a great win/win for everyone. Reply
Namisecond - Monday, August 19, 2013 - linkI think we have reached that baseline of UI acceleration. Intel's baseline integrated graphics is now the HD. It suffices for everything aside from gaming. I'm using it in a celeron 847 windows box connected to my 1080p TV. CPU usage can be a bit high when streaming HD content from services like netflix, but I very rarely see a skipped frame, and with an SSD, performance is snappy. Reply
name99 - Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - link"increasing processor graphics performance in thermally limited conditions is very tough, particularly without a process shrink. The fact that Intel even spent as many transistors as it did just to improve GPU performance tells us a lot about Intel's thinking these days. "
As always on the internet, the game fanatics completely miss the point when they think this is all about them. Intel doesn't give a damn about game players (except to the extent that it can sell them insanely overpriced K-series devices which they will then destroy in overclocking experiments --- a great business model, but with a very small pool of suckers who are buying).
What Intel cares about is following Apple's lead. (Not just because it sells a lot of chips to Apple but because Apple has established over the past few years that it has a better overall view of where computing is going than anyone else, or to put it differently, where it goes everyone else will follow a year or two later.)
So what does Apple want? It's been pretty obvious, since at least the first iPhone, how Apple sees the future --- it was obvious in the way the iPhone compositing system works with as basic elements the "layer" (ie a piece of backing store representing a view, some *fragment* of a window) rather than with a window as the basic unit. The whole point of layers is that they allow us to move the graphics heavy lifting from JUST compositing (ie CPU creates each window, which GPU then composites together) to all drawing.
We've seen this grow over the years. Apple has moved more and more of OSX (subject to the usual backward compatibility constraints and slowdowns) to the same layering model, for example they've given us a new scrolling model for 10.9 which allows for smooth ("as butter????") scrolling which is not constrained by the CPU.
So step 1 was move as much of the basic graphics (blitting, compositing, scaling) to the GPU.
But there is a step 2, which became obvious a year or so later, namely moving as much computation as makes sense to the GPU, namely OpenCL. Apple has pushed OpenCL more and more over the years, and they're not just talking the talk. Again part of what happens in 10.9 is that large parts of CIFilter (Apple's generic image manipulation toolbox, very cleverly engineered) moves to run on the GPU rather than the CPU. Likewise Apple is building more "game physics" into both the OS (with UI elements that behave more like real world matter) and as optimized routines available for Game Developers (and presumably ingenious developers who are not developing games, but who can see a way in which things like collision detection could improve their UIs). I assume most of these physics engines are running on the GPU.
Point is --- the Haswell GPU may well not be twice as large in order to run GRAPHICS better, it's twice as large in order to be a substantially better OpenCL target. Along the same lines, it's possible that the A7 will come with a GPU which does not seem like a massive improvement over its predecessor and the competition insofar as traditional graphics tasks goes, but is again a substantially better OpenCL target.
(I also suspect that, if they haven't done so already, it will contain a HW cell dedicated to conversion to or from RGB to sRGB and/or ICC. Apple seems to be pushing really hard for people to perform their image manipulation in one of these two spaces, so that linear operations have linear effects. This is the kind of subtle thing that Apple tends to do, which won't have an obviously dramatic effect, not enough to be a headline feature of future HW or SW, but will, in the background, make all manipulated imagery on Apple devices just look that much better going forward. And once they have a dedicated HW cell doing the work, they can do this everywhere, without much concern for the time or energy costs. Reply
tipoo - Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - linkI'm not sure I follow. GT3 ULV is twice as big so that it can be clocked lower, the two cancel parts of each other out. The OpenCL performance, then, won't increase any more than game performance, as far as I can see. Reply
name99 - Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - linkA better OpenCL target doesn't just mean faster. It means better handling of conditionals for example. And there are plenty of things in OpenCL 1.2 which could be done inefficiently with older HW, but much more efficiently with appropriately targeted hardware.
This is my point. Anand et al are assuming all that extra HW exists purely to speed up OpenGL, and that it does basically a lousy job of it. I'm suggesting that most of the HW is there to speed up OpenCL, and it won't appear in benchmarks which don't test OpenCL appropriately. Reply
tipoo - Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - linkI see. I've suspected that was the route Apple was taking years ago, but so far the GPU acceleration is nothing exotic, but perhaps they've been laying a multi year foundation for some big upgrade, we never know. I think they broke the chain of OpenCL compatible GPUs one time though, going from the 320m to HD3000 if I'm not mistaken. It would be a bummer if the newer 3000 Macbooks couldn't get the upgrade while the older 320m ones were fine. Reply
tipoo - Wednesday, June 26, 2013 - linkBy the way, regarding the A7 comment, if it really does use the SGX 600 series/Rogue, that would also be a huge gaming boost. It supposedly hits 200Gflops, into the PS360 range. Reply
ananduser - Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - linkThank you for enlightening us on Apple's strategy and why we should all follow it as it is perfect no matter what. Reply
name99 - Tuesday, June 25, 2013 - linkReally? That's what I was doing? I thought I was explaining why a doubling in the area of the GPU didn't appear to result in a commensurate improvement in OpenGL performance; along with some business background as to WHY Intel is ramping up the OpenCL rather than the OpenGL performance.
If you have an alternative explanation for the performance characteristics we're seeing, I think we'd all like to hear it. Reply
ekotan - Friday, June 28, 2013 - linkWell, I believe name99 makes some great points. OpenCL is gaining traction not just because it accelerates massively-parallel exotic scientific algorithms which the general user would never use, but also because Apple is leveraging it to accelerate everyday operations of the OS which the general user would use constantly.
Sales data shows that people are opting to purchase more and more mobile devices, and they want better battery life and decent performance. A discrete GPU, although powerful, cannot deliver the "better battery life" part of that equation, so Intel has a big win if they can improve their IGP to the point where it can deliver, say, 80% of the performance of a mid-range discrete GPU at 20% of the power cost. That makes sense to me.
Gamers will still only be satisfied with their desktop machines and discrete GPUs, no change there, but that is not the target Intel is intending to go after with their IGP efforts. Reply
knicholas - Friday, July 12, 2013 - linkSo if I do not game and mainly use laptop for editing RAW pics and watching 1080p videos, is the hd5000 overkill? other uses is web browsing ADD (i usually have about 10 tabs open. 5 articles and 5 loading youtube). im asking b/c im considering the vaio duo 13 but not sure if the hd5000 is better for my needs or not. Reply
brruno - Saturday, July 13, 2013 - linkThe HD5100 also as 128MB eDRAM , that why its called Iris Reply
brruno - Saturday, July 13, 2013 - linkForget it, after a more thorough search i found it doest ... so why call it Irís ?
is the only difference to the HD5100 the clock speed? Reply
Kadora - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkWould love to see more info on HD 4600 as most desktop CPUs have this graphics model. Any difference from HD 5000? Reply
i3227u - Monday, January 26, 2015 - linkWhat app is that? http://images.anandtech.com/doci/7085/16W.png Reply
douglord - Thursday, February 12, 2015 - linkWow - Incredibly helpful. I was actually thinking about changing my 4400 (s7) for a 5200 (gs30). Seems like that wouldn't do much.
I think we are taking this thin and light stuff too far. I don't want a 10lb gaming laptop, but I also don't need a 2 lb, 11", 1/2" thick laptop that almost fits in my pants pocket. Why can't we get a high-end, 15", 5lb brick, with a that has a 100whr battery and some decent thermals? Put a 5557U in it for "good enough" cpu performance and the ability to play a few games with its Iris 6100. Probably could get 10+ hours off a charge. Reply


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The Preserving
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more about these projects in the online Harvard Gazette.
Still have questions? Family Tree Magazine's genealogy experts answer readers' research questions in each issue, and we also include genealogy Q&As in our weekly Genealogy Insider email newsletter.


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Pitt notebook: Pitt's Chryst 'feels good' about not suspending players
Pitt coach Paul Chryst said Monday he "feels really good" about the decision not to suspend three starting players accused of misdemeanor simple assault and conspiracy in an incident last month in Oakland.
"At this point, with the knowledge that we have and had at the time, (we) felt like it was the right thing to do," Chryst said. "We want the truth to come out, and we want to be able to handle everything the right way. I feel good that we have."
Chryst, who said he consulted with Chancellor Mark Nordenberg and athletic director Steve Pederson, said he hasn't heard anything further on the incident in which senior Ray Graham, junior Devin Street and redshirt freshman Lafayette Pitts came into the path of Karl Olsheski and others at 12:30 a.m. Oct. 21 on Oakland Avenue, according to a criminal complaint. Graham blocked his way, Street stood in front of him, and Pitts was behind him. Street hit him once on the left side of the head, the complaint said.
We haven't heard anything (further), but we are not just going to put our head in the sand," Chryst said. "If we heard anything, we are always going to be as proactive as we can."
The players were not arrested but were mailed summonses to appear at a preliminary hearing in Pittsburgh Municipal Court on Jan. 9.
• Notre Dame coach Brian Kelly admitted the Irish had two players on the field — cornerback Bennett Jackson and wide receiver Chris Brown — wearing the same jersey number (2) during Kevin Harper's missed field-goal attempt in the second overtime Saturday. If the officials had noticed, a penalty would have been called and Pitt would have had a first down and a chance to kick again. "It was a coaching mistake," Kelly said. "We've got to do a better job. It's an oversight that can't happen." Chryst said the play will be reported to the Big East as part of Pitt's weekly routine. "They'll respond," he said. "They have been good about that." Pitt was penalized last season in the Rutgers game when No. 5s Cam Saddler and Ejuan Price were on the field together.
• Chryst said he does not agree with quarterback Tino Sunseri's remark Saturday when he blamed the loss on Harper. "I don't know if one play is ever the difference," he said. "It doesn't fall on one guy. For the most part, players have been supportive (of Harper)." Chryst added that he will talk to Sunseri about the comment.
• Linebacker Emanuel Rackard may not play Friday after suffering an undisclosed injury Saturday.
— Jerry DiPaola


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source GAIA package: Sx_MilitaryTimes_M6201410301020014_5675.zip Origin key: Sx_MilitaryTimes_M6201410301020014 imported at Fri Jan 8 18:18:13 2016
When the Westboro Baptist Church decided to protest a 2005 military funeral in Oklahoma, a Kansas chapter of the American Legion Riders decided to shield the family from the protesters — and decided to keep up that mission. Before long, the Patriot Guard Riders had spun off into its own organization. The organization has about 50,000 active members nationwide.
On a chilly, clear November morning, retired Air Force Maj. Robbie Smart and 14 other veterans gathered outside the gates of Quantico National Cemetery. They wore black leather jackets and vests with patches recording their service during wars from Vietnam to Afghanistan.
These members of the Virginia chapter of the Patriot Guard Riders were there to pay their respects to former Pvt. Eugene Curry. None had met the late Marine and Vietnam veteran, but all felt it important to come out at the Curry family's request. This mission's ride captain passed around a photo of Curry and spoke of his service, Purple Heart and post-war efforts to help veterans who had been exposed to Agent Orange, as Curry was.
Then the riders climbed onto their motorcycles — mostly Harley Davidsons, decked out with American flags — and slowly, solemnly rode into the cemetery.
The Patriot Guard Riders was founded in 2005, after the Westboro Baptist Church — which says troops' deaths are God's punishment to America for tolerating homosexuality — decided to protest a military funeral in Oklahoma, said Smart, who was recently elected PGR's national president.
Q. What made you decide to get involved with the Patriot Guard Riders?
A. I had seen the news reports about this group protesting funerals, and this other group that was somewhat reported as a counterprotest group at the funerals, though that was not what they were doing. That was PGR. I've been overseas three times, and not everybody came home. I can't tell you the anguish of seeing somebody protest at a funeral, especially for the children and the families. And I just said, "I've got to do something. I can't just sit here." It looked like an excellent opportunity, a way to ... turn [a negative feeling] into something good.
Q. Why is the work the Patriot Guard Riders so important?
A. I'm always amazed by the families coming up to us. Ninety-nine percent of the time, we don't know anybody. We're just John Q. Public showing our support. Their parents are in anguish. [chokes up] And they want to shake our hands. It's phenomenal. Somehow it touches the hearts of these families, that we do understand their anguish, we understand their sacrifice that they made for us. You don't have to have but one mom come up and shake your hand, or try to give you a hug, and after that you'll come back.
Q. What's the most memorable thing you've ever encountered on one of these missions?
A. I was on a mission escorting a young Marine [sergeant killed in Iraq] out to King George [County, Va., in early 2007]. It was a big procession, we probably had 50 motorcycles. As we got on Route 3, there were cars — we were eastbound — that were westbound, separated by a median, and they were stopping, and getting out of their car, and standing at attention as we passed. That's pretty powerful. They didn't know [who it was] … but they saw the flags, they knew what was going on when they saw the hearse.
Q. When you run up against protesters, how do you handle that?
A. We just ignore them. We move our flag lines a little closer, so that the family and friends see us and not them. That means we put up a corridor down the sidewalk [or] a line on one side of the sidewalk. If they get noisy, we crank the motorcycles. But if at all possible, turn your backs on any protest type group ... and do not acknowledge them verbally.
I've heard of them [PGR members and protesters] shouting back and forth. That's not what we need to do. We're not there to create a [scene]. We're there to shield the family.
Q. If you came face to face with Fred Phelps, head of the Westboro Baptist Church, what would you say to him?
A. It's not about fighting with him. It's about honoring our war heroes. So I doubt I'd have anything to say.
I've said this as a state captain to some members: PGR's attitude should be, if we're at a mission, the protesters are there, and one of the protesters is injured somehow, accidentally steps in front of a car, or whatever, PGR members should be the first ones there to render assistance. We need to let their children know, this is not about us and them, this is about what's right.


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Brian was one of the greatest men I have ever known. He was an amazing husband and best friend to his wife, fantastic father, son and wonderful grandfather. He worked at Saudi Aramco for 31 years. He was a loyal employee and would always be there to help in any way he could. He worked hard to provide for his family and to give us all the best life we could have. My dad was the type of person that got along with everyone and was so lovable, you couldn't get mad at him. My mom told me that one thing he would never do is go to bed mad and no matter how hard she would try sometimes she could never stay mad at him. He lost the battle to cancer, but has been freed from the pain. His memories will live on in our hearts for ever. We love you daddy and miss you more than you will ever know. Please visit and sign the guest book and share your favorite memories or just sign your name. Also, in lieu of flowers or donations to the family we ask that you send your donation to the cancer society in Brian's name. Here is the link: http://main.acsevents.org/site/TR/Events/MosaicofHope?pxfid=1975181&fr_id=9910&pg=fund
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CA$H: Black Tie
Veteran sketch team CASH cordially invite you to a night of excess, pumping up a colossal Comedy Bubble. Let's party like it's 2007!
Written and Performed by Kate Emswiler, Joe Lepore, Ruby Marez, Alex Marino, Gretchen Poole, Adam Twitchell, Matt Wassung & Rob Webber
Directed by Russ Armstrong and Christian Paluck


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Pete Carroll has a dilemma. Given the knee injury to Russell Wilson and the prospect of a bye next week, does the Seahawks coach sit his star quarterback and hope the running game and defense can sneak out of the Meadowlands with a win?
One of many things that could make Jets fans shudder is having to take on Seattle's aggressive, physical defense a week after Ryan Fitzpatrick was intercepted six times by Kansas City.
"Seattle is still definitely up there when you think or talk about the defense in this league," Fitzpatrick says. "They've probably been the standard for the longest, it's a lot of the same guys, same scheme and it's tough."


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1 package H-E-B Chicken Tenders
½ Jar Better Than Good Moppin' Sauce
2 Tablespoons Adams Reserve Val Verde Rub
1 Tablespoon Ottavio Private Reserve Olive or Grapeseed Oil
1 package HEB Chipotle Cheddar Cheese
1 package spinach tortillas or wraps
· veggies of choice -- purple onion, tomato, lettuce, etc.
1. Season chicken with rub and oil.
2. Heat grill or non-stick skillet to medium high. Grill or pan-sear chicken 3-4 minutes per side.
3. Remove chicken from grill or skillet and top with BBQ sauce.
4. Warm tortilla in skillet or on grill. Remove from heat and sprinkle chipotle cheddar cheese on tortilla. Layer the chicken and veggies lengthwise, leaving about 2 inches on the ends free of ingredients.
5. Fold both uncovered ends of the tortilla over on the top and bottom portion of the wrap. Turn the plate side ways and fold one side of the tortilla over the content's of the wrap and continue rolling until wrap is complete.
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UPDATE: Big Brother Spoilers: Final Week! – HOH 1 and 2
As we have all season, spoilers for the Big Brother week events will be updated here. Keep checking back for the latest updates! The Houseguests began the 1st of 3 competitions for the final HOH tonight, an endurance competition involving roller skates. Spencer was out first, Andy out second making GinaMarie the winner of the…Details


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Get certified - Transform your world of work today
4/13/2017 by Gurtej Pal Singh
Most organizations can benefit from DevOps practices if they are implemented wisely. Here are a few common patterns among organizations whose DevOps adoption practices improve their results.
4/12/2017 by Viktor Buzga
Did you ever find it difficult to explain the advantages of user stories over requirements and specifications documents? I did, until I found this daily-life example that makes sense to customers.
4/12/2017 by Ines Garcia
Here is how the Definition of Ready helps improve team velocity.
4/11/2017 by Erich Buhler
When I visit a company, I always try to measure a couple of variables as a good starting point for a change. It helps people secure some important alignment, make their ideas more mature, and keep goals clear.
4/10/2017 by Manjunatha Gopalakrishna
The sprint review is an often misunderstood ceremony. Here are some best practices for improving the way we manage our reviews.
4/7/2017 by Alexander Frumkin
Many clients ask me if they should bring a product owner to their daily stand-ups. My answer is no . . . and yes.
4/6/2017 by Humberto Cordioli
One of the smartest elements of the Agile/Scrum framework is the importance of the roles. It's important to realize what might be lost in the absence of this simple configuration of product owner, ScrumMaster, and development team.
4/6/2017 by Kunjan Upadhyay
This article is my attempt to debunk myths about the MVP as well as to provide a clearer picture of its role in new product development.
4/5/2017 by Jim Starrett,Amjad Gani
As a company assesses its progress toward becoming Agile, it needs a well-understood and shared metric for its success.
4/4/2017 by Brian Milner
Revisiting the history of NASA's race to place a human being on the moon helped me look at this era with new eyes — and with all my experience of Agile and Scrum. What I saw was surprising.


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Directed by Kim Jong-hak (김종학), Sin Yong-hwi (신용휘)
Screenplay by Song Ji-na (송지나)SBS | Airing dates : 2012/08/13~2012/10/30
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Also known as "The Great Doctor"
The romance between a warrior from the ancient times and a female doctor from the modern times as well as the process of making a true king.
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Drama of the week
By Cédric Collemine | Privacy policy | Contact | Partners | Advertising by


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CHRISTMAS markets will be coming to East Lancashire and beyond this year.
From festive gifts to mulled wine, the Christmas markets always prove to be popular with gift ideas and tasty treats.
So for a great day out check the list of markets in East Lancashire and further afield.
What: Hoghton Tower Farmers' Market and Meet Father Christmas
Where: Hoghton Tower
When: Sunday December 18
Time: 10am - 2pm
This popular food producers' market features over 50 stalls offering the tastiest seasonal produce to visitors. Take your pick from a wide variety of fresh meat, fish, vegetables and fruits.
What: Christmas Market
Where: Darwen Market
When: Saturday December 10 and Saturday December 17
Time: 10am -1pm
This Christmas you'll find a host of family fun, including children's face painting and balloon modelling and a free prize draw every Saturday to win a bag full of festive goodies. Santa will also be at the market every Saturday and on Friday December 16 when the market will be open late until 7pm he will be on the Market Square giving out selection boxes.
What: A Market Full of Magic and carols round the crib
Where: Blackburn Market
When: Sunday, December 18
Time: From 6pm
To celebrate Blackburn Market's first Christmas in its new location in the lower ground floor of The Mall shopping centre, local painter and printmaker Julia Swarbrick has moved in as artists in residence and has created a unique Christmas mural on the Market's shop windows. Join in for carols round the crib whilst shopping on the town's new market.
What: Festive Food Market Where: Wellybobs Farm, Davyfield Farm, Roman Road, Darwen
When: Sunday, December 18
Time: 10am - 4.30pm
Join in the fun at Wellybobs Farm with festive stalls offering local food and drinks. Get into the Christmas spirit, while browsing the twinkling stalls.
What: Christmas Market
Where: Backridge Farm, Waddington
When: Saturday, December 10 and Sunday, December 11
Time: 10am - 5am
The farm's traditional market is being held under marquees in which will play host to a wide variety of festive food, drink and gift stalls. The event is free and there will a festive BBQ.
What: Croston Village Christmas Fayre
Where: Croston, Leyland
When: Sunday, December 11
Time: 1pm - 7.30pm
A true village Christmas Fair which starts at 1:00 pm with Santa's arrival, also market/craft stalls, children's fun fair, Santa's Grotto, land train, 2 local brass bands, choir, a lone piper, magician, street entertainers, torchlight procession, hog roast, mulled wine and more.
What: Yuletide Festival & Christmas Market
Where: Skipton
When: Tomorrow and Sunday December 11
Time: 10am - 4pm
Skipton's Yuletide Festival and market is now in its 17th year. This event attracts tens of thousands of people on the first two Sundays of December. This year we see the return of Bjorn the Polar Bear, the Tap Dancing Turkeys, talk of the town last year Musical Ruth and her piano - plus along with these great acts we have our regulars - Skipton Brass Band, Barnoldswick Brass Band, Nelson Brass Band and Accrington Pipe Band.
What: Manchester Christmas Markets
Where: Albert Square, Brazenose St, King St, St Ann's Square, New Cathedral Street, Exchange Square When: Thursday November 17 to Wednesday December 21
Time: 10am - 8pm
The perfect place to get your evening started, pick up some fabulous Christmas gifts, or relax after a hard day's Christmas shopping, the markets really have become a very firm fixture of everybody's yuletide countdown. European and local producers offer everything from fine amber jewellery, handcrafted leather bags, and top quality bonsai trees, to Dutch cheeses, French breads, and Spanish chorizo. Perfect for alternative gift ideas, enjoy the banter and advice of stallholders from all over the continent.


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Young mother remembered after deadly East Naples shootingPosted: Updated:
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Man charged in double shooting in East Naples
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Hey there, time traveller!
This article was published 24/1/2013 (1672 days ago), so information in it may no longer be current.
DEAR MISS LONELYHEARTS: I'm in my mid-30s, married for 15 years. My husband and I have two wonderful teenage daughters and I love him very much. However, he was not my first love. I have been in contact with my first love for three years. All the messaging we've done has involved expressing our past feelings for each other. He has been there for me when my husband shut me out. But all this has brought feelings back. I know deep down that nothing will ever come of this (he lives on another continent and I could never cheat on my husband). My issue is I can't get him out of my head. I wake up from numerous dreams of cheating on my husband. I feel guilty and I have not even done anything. My husband knows nothing about this and I can't tell him as he's a very jealous type. Help! -- Confused Wife, Wpg.
Dear Confused Wife: You are cheating on your husband emotionally with this online affair. When you stop, it will stop fuelling your dreams. The more you chat, the more you fantasize -- with your ex in the starring role. How would you like your husband connecting with an old love online and having sexual dreams about her, not you? Focus on the reason you broke up with the first man and ask yourself how you can improve your marriage. Or is it more fun having two loves and paying a certain price in guilt?
Dear Miss Lonelyhearts: I have a new, hot car. I like to take it out and drive it late at night when no one is around, and I like to go very, very fast. My girlfriend wants to know where I am going and why I won't take her. I just say I'm going for a drive to clear my head, but she thinks I'm up to no good. How do I prove to her I'm out speeding and I don't want to endanger her? -- Zzzoom! Tuxedo
Dear Zzzoom: You ARE up to no good. You're endangering your girlfriend emotionally by taking chances with your life. And you could also kill other people -- like my 20-something kids, who are out on the road late at night, buster. On top of that, you're hurting your girlfriend with your secretive late-night excursions. Grow up, before you lose her over that car. And this spring, get yourself to a bona fide racetrack.
Questions or comments? Write Miss Lonelyhearts c/o Winnipeg Free Press 1355 Mountain Ave. Wpg R2X 3B6 or email email@example.com


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Utopia Sugar/Creamer
This is quite the delightful line of stoneware to begin with, but if you happen to be a fan of Danish artist Björn Wiinblad (R.I.P.), the resemblance between this Utopia line and his whimsical illustration style is undeniable -- especially because of the heads used as vessels concept. It's a pretty great tribute, even if it was unintentional! While your there, check out the rest of Adler's stoneware: It's all so gorgeous, dammit!


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Computex 2014: MSI's New ECO Motherboard Rangeby Ian Cutress on 6/6/2014 10:54 AM EST
- Posted in
- Intel
- Motherboards
- Computex 2014
15 Comments
Back to Article
hojnikb - Friday, June 06, 2014 - linkThat white version is absolutly gorgeous. Reply
dakishimesan - Friday, June 06, 2014 - linkAgree. i love the aesthetic. Reply
Qwertilot - Friday, June 06, 2014 - linkIt does look nice yes :) A nice sort of idea too I think. Reply
nathanddrews - Friday, June 06, 2014 - linkI was just thinking how rare a white PCB is. I like it. Suddenly it makes me wonder what color all these components would be there was absolutely no paint or dye used. Could be cool. They could market it as "organic". Reply
ThortonBe - Friday, June 06, 2014 - linkFor sure! Even the brown version is okay. The trick would be finding RAM and other items that match. Reply
azazel1024 - Friday, June 06, 2014 - linkMy only problem is I want H87 too. I need me some Intel RST12/RAID. So H81/B85 are not an option for me.
Otherwise sound/look like the perfect board for my server. Reply
azazel1024 - Friday, June 06, 2014 - linkBah, can't edit my comment. I see that there are other chipsets in micro ATX in their proposed eco line. Comment retracted. That H97 Eco board looks sweet. Reply
MikeMurphy - Friday, June 06, 2014 - linkI'd like to see a review on the power savings these boards can achieve together with some CPU undervolting. Reply
extide - Friday, June 06, 2014 - linkI think this is a good idea, in fact I think these sort of board should essentially BE the low end. It's kind of a trip to see a board with such little amount of stuff on it, it's like we suddenly travelled back to the age of P965/P35/etc, not that this is a bad thing, though. Reply
ShieTar - Saturday, June 07, 2014 - linkIt is a good Idea, but I hope its just the start. I'd love to see a board Manufacturer start to offer user-customizable boards to its customers, where un-used options aren't even physically included on the board.
Any part that is excluded can no longer cause any trouble, be it use power or be it fail and take the rest of the board along. And I think a lot of people have pretty good Ideas these days on what exactly they will or won't need on their board for the next few years. Reply
TiGr1982 - Friday, June 06, 2014 - linkThese ECO boards should accept only S and T CPU models and should not post with regular CPUs writing "Non-eco-friendly CPU detected".
:) Reply
Alexvrb - Saturday, June 07, 2014 - linkWhy? They can just undervolt and if necessary drop clocks (or reduce turbo clocks). :P Reply
sheh - Friday, June 06, 2014 - linkSo what are the power savings? Reply
junky77 - Saturday, June 07, 2014 - linkyou would expect such things to be available 10 years ago Reply
Zinko55 - Wednesday, June 11, 2014 - linkI think MSI should go for a all white color scheme, i think that will look fantastic. Reply


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John Tortorella:
"Going in today, I know that they don't have any doubt. They're fine there. Today was just move the blood and get ready to play. It's a quick turn here, playing a 3 o'clock game tomorrow and we go right back at it."
"We hope (the home crowd) helps. We need a good start and hopefully we get the building behind us and some guys relax a little bit and we find our way."
"It's not so much (correcting) mistakes. It's trying to get ourselves untracked offensively and trying to release some of the pressure there. I think we have defended pretty well. We defended last night pretty well, better than the first game. But we're just not creating enough offensively. So it's not so much mistakes, it's playing the complete game and allowing yourself to get going offensively. So we'll see where we go."
"We're trying to help them through it here. If you think you have some players that don't care, I think you go in a different direction. I know the team cares. I know they're trying. I think other than probably an eight-nine minute span there in the second period, I think we played more to our identity last night. But still, we still need to create more offense. A big part of the game is we play a first period, have some chances especially early in the game, we don't score. And they end up getting untracked a little bit. I think we got a little sloppy our first couple shifts in the second period, the momentum changes, ends up being an icing call, we have a defensive lapse and they score. And that's a fine line of gaining momentum and winning hockey games, and they did that last night. We didn't."
"There were some plays last night — Brian Boyle had a chance to bring the puck to the net, there were opportunities in the blue. We didn't score. So we're going to continue trying."
Asked what the team could do better …
"Score a goal."
… on the power play?
"Score a goal. (laughs)."
On struggling through the neutral zone on the PP:
"I think sometimes we've struggled there. Let's face … it's not working. We're going to try some different things there tomorrow, maybe some different personnel. And I think that's a little bit of … your power play is always a microcosm of what your offense is as it's going. I think there it is there. We're struggling there. We haven't had many. I think we had four in the series. But those type, even the two we've had in each game, it can create momentum for you, too, or hurt you another way. It's not so much scoring a goal or not, it's how it's presented, how you get your work done there. And I think that's hurt us a little bit momentum-wise. So, we may try a different couple of looks. But again, it's a matter of confidence. It's spread right through our offense. We've been down this road before, where we've struggled scoring goals, and we've bounced out of it. Hopefully tomorrow we find a way."
"I can remember these, and we've only had a few of them, but the second one in Game 1 I thought we had really good puck movement. We've struggled getting shots through. Part of that is due to them blocking shots. Part of that is due to us … I think pucks have bobbled on (McCabe) a little bit. We haven't made right decisions as far as our quickness in shooting. Again, I don't want to get into dissecting the whole thing. But it mounts on you a little bit. I think our guys have to continue trying to play the way we play, continue defending the way we need to defend, and hopefully our offense gets untracked a little bit. If we get something good to happen to us, hopefully it goes through the team and allows them to play and feel good about themselves."
Can one break the seal?
"Yeah, yeah. You never know. If you get a lead, you get a lead in your own building, and maybe that helps. It's something that you don't map out because it's here (points to his head). It's here. And no one knows what goes on there, not only individually but collectively. We've just got to stay within ourselves and collectively stay with each other and try to get some good things to happen for us."
Lineup or PP changes?
"Contemplating, yearh. I haven't come up with any. I have an idea. So we'll see … I don't think the personnel will change. I think we may try some different things as far as lines, but we'll wait until tomorrow and go with that."


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As we waited in line to board Full Figured Fashion Week's "Curves at Sea" All White Sunset Cruise, all I could think of was how beautiful everyone looked. Of course, I was also looking to see how many of these beautiful ladies were wearing the same thing, and I was pleasantly surprised to see that there were only one or two repeats. Yay! I know it was hard to find what I was going to wear. LOL!
The cruise was so much fun with the Sonsi Photo Booth (that I missed), the swag bags, and the FFFWeek Big and Tall Male Fashion Showcase. The ladies were definitely loving the men! There were giveaways, dancing, and a beautiful view as we cruised around the island of Manhattan.
I snapped a few photos below…I'd love to know what you think! Were you there? Will we see you next year?
*All photos were taken by me and are my personal property. No use of these images without my written consent.
Disclosure: I was an official member of the 2012 Full Figured Fashion Week's Fashion Front. I received a gift bag and complimentary access in to all events.


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Find those special Kentucky Derby Glasses to add to your collection. We make it easy to find horse racing memorabilia while giving you the best prices as we are dedicated to horse racing memorabilia.
Visit us today at www.HorseRacingOnlineStore.com for the best deals online for horse racing collectibles like Kentucky Derby Glasses.


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Amber Edmunds says she is participating in groundbreaking research at Karmonos Cancer Institute. Called SoftVue, the ultrasound imaging device has been in the works for over a decade and is on the cusp of FDA approval.
In the clinical trial stages, SoftVue is a revolutionary machine that uses sound and water to create 3D ultrasound images of the whole breast. What's pioneering about the machine is that it doesn't involve the discomfort of compression or radiation like a mammogram.
"You feel at ease, you feel better about yourself, you're not uncomfortable," said Edmunds.
The co-inventors are conducting their world-renowned research in Detroit at Karmonos Cancer Institute.
"Having engineering and physics and physicians listen to one another created a real opportunity that isn't seen very often around the world," said Dr. Peter Littrup, co-inventor of SoftVue.
With over a decade of research so far, it's an opportunity co-invented by Dr. Peter Littrup and Dr. Ned Duric at Karmonos Cancer Institute.
"This would be a complete paradigm shift in what we're normally looking at with breast imaging," said Dr. Littrup.
This research was possible in small part thanks to Edmunds.
"I really got involved when my wife came home after her first mammogram and said if you're inventing stuff, you gotta do something about this process."
With SoftVue, the patient lies down on a table over a round opening much like an ice fishing hole. With a camera in the bottom, it fills with warm water where one at a time, the patient's breast is scanned.
"The information that we get from how that sound interacts with the breast tissue tells us what's inside the breast," said Dr. Duric.
The process is much like a CAT Scan or an MRI where you can put the women on and get the same images every time, only much faster and at a fraction of the cost of a breast MRI with images beyond that of a mammogram.
Local 4's Rhonda Walker put it to the test herself. She said to scan both breasts, it took less than five minutes.
Walker said the procedure is quick, very relaxing, with no squeezing or discomfort. She said one of the things she likes is the privacy, as she never felt the awkwardness of being full exposed.
The images are done for the radiologist to review in 15 minutes while the patient is still in the room.
Lisa Bey-Knight has been a research nurse coordinator for the clinical trial for seven years.
"This technology, I'm just blessed to be a part of it," said Bey-Knight. "This is pioneering technology."
Edmunds, a mother of three, is one of the study participants.
"It feels great," said Edmunds. "I got the phone call. I was really excited."
Edmunds was diagnosed with breast cancer while pregnant with her daughter last spring. She has a healthy 5-month-old today and said she has quite a story to tell her.
"I could have lost my daughter at any time," said Edmunds. "I've had two ultrasounds, two mammograms, a mastectomy, chemo now. I'm going through radiation all during the nine months of pregnancy."
What Edmunds said she likes most about Softvue is the use of no radiation.
"When you deal with radiation, you deal with a lot. Effects your skin, your bones." said Edmunds. "(This) makes you feel comfortable that their doing the test and it's not harmful to your body. It uses water and uses sound and why we think it's potentially a good option in the future, because with mammography, it doesn't work that way."
It's important to remember mammograms are still the gold standard for breast cancer screening and detection. SoftVue clinical trials are ongoing.
SoftVue is just one example of the research taking place at the Karmanos Cancer Institute. One of the big events that helps fund that research is the "Karmanos 31st Annual Dinner," which will be held on Apr. 20th. General Motors is a major sponsor of the event.
More in Health
- Gotten a flu shot yet? There is still time
- Snyder eyes mental health makeover, GOP skeptical
- Are trees good for your health?
- Selfless act saves local baby
Copyright 2013 by ClickOnDetroit.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


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Plants collect energy from the sun by the help of chlorophylls and carotenoids, which are the molecules catching photons. If plants are exposed to too much sun, these molecules suck in more energy than they can handle and produce bombs that can destroy the plant. This process shows that too much sun may be as dangerous to plants as it is to human beings. However in order to prevent combustion our All-Mighty Allah created plants with extraordinarily complex defense mechanisms. With this amazing system plants employ almost an electrical sun shield to protect themselves against the harmful rays of the sun.
Carotenoids: Cables that draw sun rays away from the plant
A research carried out in Arizona Biodesign Institute delivered results about how plants get rid of excess solar energy. For this end, plants use carotenoids, the molecules which are responsible for giving the yellow color to fruits and vegetables.
Carotenoids which are 2.8 nanometer in length are the cables 10.000 times smaller than the width of a strand. This piece of information deserves mention here: the prevention of a plant from burning becomes possible by drawing the harmful sun ray away by making its getting through a cable 10 thousand times thinner than a strand.
How do carotenoids work?
Researches thought that during the process of protection against rays, carotenoids lost an electron and got oxidized or changed. However recent researches revealed that, without getting oxidized themselves, these molecules transmit the sun ray which is in the electron form to the other side. That is, these amazing molecules that work like cables do not get oxidized themselves while they carry out these transactions. Scientists state that this system also exists on the spinach leaves and they are as sensitive as almost reacting to clouds passing above. According to scientists these are one of the perfect examples of engineering at nano dimensions in nature.
But how such a thin cable does not reduce to ashes under the effect of such a harmul ray? How does such a gentle and thin structure remain unaffected from the scorching sun ray?
No doubt this amazing structure and this multi-staged process that takes place at unusually short intervals like in picoseconds (one trillionth of a second) and even in femtosecond (one thousandth of a nanosecond) is one of the obvious examples of our Lord's Might. In the Qur'an Allah states that there are signs in the plants that He created for those who have faith:
It is He Who sends down water from the sky from which We bring forth growth of every kind, and from that We bring forth the green shoots and from them We bring forth close-packed seeds, and from the spathes of the date palm date clusters hanging down, and gardens of grapes and olives and pomegranates, both similar and dissimilar. Look at their fruits as they bear fruit and ripen. There are Signs in that for people who believe. (Surat al-An'am, 99)
EurekAlert - 22-Haziran-2006
Berkeley lab. - Research News - 20 Ocak 2005
Science AAAS - 21 Ocak 2005


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Out of Stock
GameWear Boston Bruins Classic Keychain
Product Information:
Personalize your key ring or backpack the only way a true fan should with the GameWear® Boston Bruins Classic Keychain. The keychain is made from authentic elements of a hockey puck so no matter how far you are from the ice, you always feel close to the game. The black keychain is outlined in team colors and features the Bruins logo in the middle. Discover the perfect way to express your fandom with the GameWear® Bruins keychain.
- GameWear® Boston Bruins Classic Keychain
- Black keychain outlined in team-colors with logo
- Made from authentic elements of a hockey puck
- Comes with a carabineer clip for easy attachment
- Constructed from vulcanized rubber
- Officially licensed by the NHL®
- Brand: GameWear
- Country of Origin: Imported
Web ID: 16GWRUNHLBRNSKYCHHDG


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I've just come across a fascinating website http://nautil.us/ , it's theme is "What Makes You So Special: The Puzzle of Human Uniqueness". It is a science based website, but several of the pages concern themselves with DNA and other subjects dear to a genealogists heart. One page in particular addresses the fact that statistically it can be proved that we are all related to one another.
A particular sentence caught my attention – "anyone who was alive 2,000 – 3,000 years ago is either an ancestor of everyone who is now alive, or no one at all". This makes sense when you think that working backwards each generation doubles the number of direct descendants, so when you go back 40 generations (not likely on a typical family tree) then you would have a trillion direct ancestors when the world population is estimated to have been only about 300 million.
So we are all related to Charlemagne, Edward 1st, Cleopatra and so on. Makes for a colourful family tree!
Here are links to two articles I think you'll find thought provoking –


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SKIL was created by; is driven by; and is focused on persons with disabilities, their families, and communities. We provide Advocacy, Education,
and Support with Customer Controlled services to break down and remove existing barriers and bridge social gaps to ensure and preserve
Equality and Independence for all.
Submit your DSW time sheet by email. firstname.lastname@example.com
A fax confirmation is NOT a guarantee that time sheet was received. Call and verify it was received. 800-688-5616


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Happy Birthday, Cinzano
Posted: Apr 5, 2007 9:31am ET
Normally, a picture of the hapless bicyclist going ass over teakettle off the road in the movie "Breaking Away" pops to mind when I think of Cinzano. (Remember the main character idolizes the Italian bicyclists, Team Cinzano, only to have his hero worship repaid with villainy?) Not much of a testimonial for this classic brand of Vermouth, but I digress.
Today, I am thinking of Cinzano because it's the 250th anniversary of the spirits maker, which is as good a reason as any to revisit this strong product. It seems to me that as a Vermouth, Cinzano tends to take a backseat to Martini & Rossi, which seems to get paired up with gin in Martinis and whiskey in Manhattans an awful lot. I think that's partially because part of its name is right there in the name of the cocktail: making a Martini, use Martini & Rossi, no-brainer. It's a good product, too, but cocktailists shouldn't ignore Cinzano (which ironically is older than M&R) when making classic cocktails, especially the granddaddy of them all, the Manhattan.
In the red Vermouths (and that's what you want for Manhattans), the difference is largely one of body. M&R is more elegant and delicate, more flowery and fruity. Cinzano is bolder, with a Port taste that really comes through, as well as dates, spices and nuts. Of course, these aren't the only choices—there's Noilly Prat, Dolin, Punt e Mes, etc. to consider—but the point is I'm determined to keep an open mind and test different cocktail ingredients.
On a side note, Cinzano has asked chef Brad Farmerie of PUBLIC to create a Cinzano-based recipe. He responded with formulae for olives, ketchup, melon salad and brownies, among other things. You can get them by emailing Brenda Dos Santos at this address: firstname.lastname@example.com. Any alchemists out there who try them please respond.
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Monster Cookies
11 comments:
I envision making these with the all-one-color M&M's you can buy now. Then they can really be monster cookies. Red for Elmo, blue for Cookie Monster, green for Oscar?ReplyDelete
this is what I made tonight and was able to share with loads of people as it makes a LOT of cookies. everyone was super happy as they are delicious. thanks for posting!ReplyDelete
Hi Julie. Cookies are for sharing. Now I would have frozen them and ate them over the next few weeks. You did good! Way to go!ReplyDelete
- emarks3/25/12, 5:18 PM
My husband's grandmother used to make monster cookies. Alas, she is not with us anymore. Cant wait to try them and pay homage to a great lady.ReplyDeleteReplies
Oh that's sweet. My greatest recipes come from my grandmothers. They are the "tried and true" recipes that work every time. Thanks for sharing that.Delete
I made these cookies last weekend for two parties and they were INSANELY popular! thanks for the recipe! Everyone loved them! I even blogged about them. http://elizabethdownie.blogspot.com/2012/05/wednesday-thoughts_16.htmlDelete
Thanks for the recipe!
Hahaha Thanks Elizabeth. I really appreciate you referring my link. I'm so happy the cookies were a success. They are completely addicting and I started freezing them so I wouldn't eat the entire batch. Then I realized how good they were frozen.Delete
- Steven Barton6/28/12, 12:46 AM
Looks like Ann Romney makes these same cookies: http://www.buzzfeed.com/zekejmiller/ann-romney-and-michelle-obama-face-off-in-presidenReplyDelete
- Diane P.8/31/12, 7:55 PM
My family has been making Monster Cookies for over 40 years. A family favorite!ReplyDeleteReplies
They are crazy good. I can't stop eating them.Delete
My 3yr son and I made these this evening. He loved every little bit that fell over the side of the bowl as I stirred and we shared the first warm cookies right out of the oven. Thank you for posting this recipe.ReplyDelete


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Located in Rochester Minnesota, KFSI Christian radio is a lighthouse for listeners, reaching the saved and unsaved in a variety of ways. No matter what your age, stage of life or taste in music, KFSI offers educational, inspiring and uplifting Christian programming 7 days a week, 24 hours a day.
Faith Sound, Inc is a non-profit ministry operating KFSI radio and Faith Christian School. As southeast Minnesota's only full-powered, Christian station, KFSI broadcasts music from national recording artists and lessons from syndicatied teachers, as well as daily Bible verses, national news and local weather updates. KFSI has something to offer the whole family.
KFSI has continued to shine the light through the faithful support of devoted listeners in the tri-state area. Our audience is growing with loyal listeners looking for a source of faith-based programs, clean information and wholesome entertainment.
KFSI invites you to become an invaluable partner in sharing the good news. For more info on how you can join the KFSI community and make a strong statement about positive values and take a stand for quality, biblically-based radio programming, please contact us today.
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Faith Sound, Inc. ♦ 4016 28th St. S.E. ♦ Rochester, MN 55904 ♦ 507-289-8585 ♦ email@example.com
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