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Welcome: A Message from Dr. Fink, Chair
In the Department of Neurology at the University of Michigan, a dedicated team of academic neurologists pursues the three-part academic mission of clinical care, research and education. Highly skilled physicians with subspecialty expertise in each of the domains of adult neurology provide care to patients with diseases of the nervous system in both hospital and outpatient settings. Many of these physicians direct laboratory or clinical research programs to advance our understanding of neurological disease, and to develop and test new therapies for these diseases.
David J. Fink, M.D.
Robert Brear Professor and Chair


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Manage your account and access personalized content.
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Oracle WMS delivers operational flexibility, optimized warehouse processes, seamless hand-offs with key value chain processes, and pre-integration of advanced warehouse technologies—all at the lowest total cost of ownership.
Customers who use Oracle's WMS are able to:
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subset: commoncrawl


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I've been using InkScape and Gimp for some time now. I use them for graphic design elements for web design projects, and for design layouts & mock-ups.
I hand code each project in HTML5/CSS3/PHP, and have taken to using CSS3 effects (eg. gradients, box-shadows, text-shadows, etc) over images where possible, so have no need for HTML/CSS code generation.
As I'm starting to collaborate more with other agencies, graphic designers and developers, I'm beginning to wonder if I need to bite the bullet and use the 'industry standard' tools - Adobe Illustrator, Fireworks & Photoshop.
So rather than ask which is better, I'd like to ask what you actually use yourselves?
1) InkScape
2) Gimp
3) InkScape + Gimp
4) Adobe Photoshop
5) Adobe Illustrator
6) Adobe Fireworks
7) Adobe Photoshop + Illustrator
8) Adobe Photoshop + Illustrator + Fireworks
9) Adobe Photoshop + Fireworks
10) Adobe Illustrator + Fireworks 11) Adobe InDesign 12) In browser design & development 13) Others
Anything that gets the job done is fine. In general, Photoshop seems to be overkill for web design ... though of course it's a great tool.
I agree that Photoshop in itself is overkill for web design- but still seems to be the standard tool that everyone is expected to use.
Please do vote. Thank you for your response.
I do use Photoshop, Fireworks, and Illustrator for graphics work. 95% of clients insist on having an additional mockup of the homepage in .psd format for future reference, so I do give it to my clients.
However, I think it makes much more sense to give them the cropped parts that I used in .psd or .png or .eps. That way they don't have to use the mockup at all, if they want to modify the bits and pieces, e.g. like gradients, icons or header graphics.
However, I think you can use the Gimp and Inkscape just as well as you can save files in the standard formats, if I remember correctly. I don't like the Gimp, which is the sole reason I don't use it.
As for your question, of course a serious web designer can use the Gimp an Inkscape. Adobe products do not make a professional web designer. These are just tools and the least important traits a web designer needs to possess. Other areas of responsibility are a lot more significant than the tools you use.
i use drawplusX5 and photoplus X4 (both by Serif) to do my web design. as well as Web Image Studio for most web images i need to do. That being said i do not have a creative bone in my body. But these give me the tools i need.
I don't use PS, I do think it's an overkill in web design. I create a wireframe in vector format, then I begin coding straight away. I seam to save at least 10 - 20 hours of the overal time taken to complete a website so I can reduce my costs to the end client.
Any updated elements are in the file, but there is no complete design in a picture format. I feel with CSS3 you can pretty much skip the website in picture format. That said I am able to cut costs without reducing the quality of the website. From experience I have not yad anybody ask for a PSD version of their site. PhotoShop has for some reason made it's self a standard in web design.
These days, I've decided to insist on starting with content first, then developing a wireframe from that, which I present as a web page. No more PSD, InDesign or whatever. After all, they asked me for a web site, not a Photoshop document. (Graphic designers can do that!)
Only after content and wireframe are approved do I start to discuss/add in styles. The advantage is that the client doesn't get disappointed when the site doesn't look as nice in IE2 as it did in the Photoshop mockup.
Thats fantastic: a 10-20 hours time saving.
So when you do have to get some more advanced graphic design for a project, what do you do? What format file do graphic designers you work with present to you?
I'd never heard of these before your post - will have a look now. Thanks.
Can you remember why you didn't like it?
What you say is very true. It's like me buying a $10000 guitar and expecting that the guitar will make me play like a professional musician!
vwd, I didn't like it because it felt even less intuitive and inflexible to me than Photoshop and I don't find Photoshop to be particularly intuitive to begin with (something that goes for all Adobe products I've used). I have not tried the latest Gimp version, so perhaps things have changed/improved since I last tried it.
As it is, I can't think of a single graphic design tool that I actually like. They're all either bloated or too meagerly equipped, but they all seem to suffer from bad interface & information architecture.
Personally onlu use HTML/CSS in browser to code. I don't see a need for anything else.
Preach it, brother man.
I think in a couple of years time, products like InkScape and Gimp will get a better name for themselves in web design. I have only now started using NotePad++ and it's pretty amazing. Just to illustrate a couple of years ago I would not dream of using something like this, as time progressed Dreamweaver-like solutions now are a thing of the past. A similar process might happed with web design, as we don't actually need a professional photo editing package to design websites. All we basically need are the ability to create shapes, define colours and add trasparencies and gradients whilst having a suitable package containing all the alignment and grid structure's to it.
PS is now become the standard in many ways. There are so many PSD - HTML services out there, and not a single one is AI - HTML or JPEG - HTML, everything is about PhotoShop. Courses go even as far to state PSD - HTML - WordPress. It would be a little hard removing PhotoShop from the equation, but I honestly feel it's not needed in designing a websites.
Like @kohoutek; mentioned, there are so many other MORE important things that using PhotoShop (e.g. JavaScript, SASS, MooTools, PHP, HTML etc).
Yes, that's true.
A website is not an image, and even when you present an image to a client you cannot make an exact copy into a website. Wireframe web design is more important. Allowing the users to chose their layout and information presented. Once approved you code this layout and add the detail with CSS3. By removing this PS process you save time and your limit confusion as you won't get the "this does not look like the design" comments. Browsers and PS don't work alike. A solid image is not a web page. Clients who are nannied through the PS process expect and believe their website to look like a complete identical to the PS design, which in many ways is impossible.
Not sure if anybody has come accross this same issue, but it certainly seams to be something more apparent with demanding clients.
One thing to be aware of when working with the GIMP is, when you get a PSD, GIMP can open it, but depending on how the PSD was saved, the textures and gradients may be screwed up. This happened to me when I did the unmatched style CSSOff contest: I got marked down a lot of points because I could not tell where the textures all needed to be (my only hope was the crappy jpg they'd posted on their site).
Either you find out how the PSD must be saved when working with others who use Photoshop, or you must have a version of PS yourself (I would hope Elements is good enough) to double-check how it looks. That or always ask for a flattened PNG version for comparison.
New GIMP2.8 coming out has many changes, but the big big changes are coming out in 2.10. One change is now if you are coming from the all-in-one software you can set GIMP up like that too (like GimpShop did) in place of separate boxes for tools etc. Also GhostScript comes now standard in instead of you trying to add it yourself (never worked for me). Gimp has traditionally lagged in CYMK colours and LAB, making it a second-choice for designers who also need to deal with print. LAB either comes in 2.10 or comes later, I forget which. Not here now though.
Inkscape is amazing for being in beta (unless it's finally gotten up to version 1.0 by now?). I think possibly Inkscape will be considered on par with Illustrator (certainly seems loved by those who miss FreeHand) before the GIMP comes up to Photoshop levels.
That said, I'm an el-cheapo Linux user so no way am I going to buy a whole OS (Windows) simply to buy an expensive image editor (PS) simply to do junk like websites (image editing, not mockup creation, I do that mostly on paper first and prototypes and then direct to code, where it's easiest to change and set up for various screen resolutions). Photoshop should still beat the GIMP in things like Print and general advertising images, but for web sites, GIMP does the job easily. You can also write your own damn filters if something is lacking, and you like Python.
I do all the stuff on my own: design, back-end, front-end, so I don't know if that suggests that I'm not a serious designer......but I'm an avid Inkscape fan and I use it in tandem with Paint.net. These two (along with PngOptimizer) are all I ever needed so far.
I have fiddled around in Photoshop and Fireworks, and they have a few features I've missed at first. But those features were only further enhancements to make my life easier. The core features in Inkscape and Paint.net are there, you just have to be smarter to find ways to replicate those extra features.
As a personal thought, images, raster or vector, will always have a place in digital media, including web. That considering the clear performance penalties associated with newer CSS3 capabilities, considering that you have to worry about cross browser compatibilities and about fallbacks, and considering that sometimes you have to make your markup to jump through hoops to accommodate imageless designs.
I didn't realize that any of the gurus on here used open-source software?!
The big thing holding me back from "taking the leap" is documentation including training guides.
How did all of you learn to use GIMP and Inkscape? (I have seen virtually no manuals or guides out there either online or offline. And what I have seen is crappy to put it politely.)
Stomme, how did you become an expert with GIMP and Inkscape?
1.) Were you able to get up to speed because you already knew Graphic Design and Graphic Design Tools (e.g. Photoshop and Illustrator) and so there wasn't much of a "learning curve"?
2.) Did you find some great, hidden resources that I haven't seen?
3.) Did someone teach you?
4.) Did you spend 25 hours a day trying to learn it?
5.) Or are you just mega smart, and anything less than Quantum Physics is a piece of cake for you?!
I have virtually no experience working with Graphic Design Tools including Photoshop and Illustrator, and so I'm not even sure where to begin?!
Personally I have come to loathe proprietary software, however I'd hate was years of my life trying to learn software but never really getting it down, or worse, learning it and discovering that I should have went the Adobe route...
Any advice for a newbie?
Take a look at total training, and practice on tutorials online.
University did that a couple of years back
Nope, more like 3 - 5 hours, there are only 24-hours to the day and you have to sleep, eat and chill out sometimes
If you love what you do you percivier to do a better job and keep doing what you love.
Checkout Lynda.com and 3dbuzz.com, they have an amazing tutorials
WHERE are there "plenty of books" on GIMP and Inkscape???


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A 28-year-old man has been charged with murder in connection with an attack on a woman last February in her Macomb Township home.
The Macomb Daily in Mount Clemens reported that Joseph Reiner appeared Wednesday in district court in Shelby Township, north of Detroit.
Joanne Eisenhardt suffered two stab wounds to her neck and died in September.
Reiner originally was charged with attempted murder and home invasion in the daytime break-in and attack. Assistant Macomb County Prosecutor William Cataldo said she died of a heart attack. He also said a medical examiner will testify at Reiner's Jan. 25 preliminary examination that the 69-year-old Eisenhardt's death was caused by injuries suffered in the February attack.
Defense attorney Timothy Barkovic said prosecutors can't prove Eisenhardt's death was caused by the stabbing.
Copyright 2011 by ClickOnDetroit.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


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Reimbursement Forms
- Forms to complete for reimbursement
- Cash Advance Form
- When a student club/org needs temporary cash for an event they may request the cash using the cash advance request form. After the event the department must provide the cash back or/and receipts for the purchases made.
- Direct Payment Request Form
- Use the Direct Payment Request (DPR) form to make payments to individual non-employees (vendors) or (students), companies (including LLCs), institutions, and organizations that provide an invoice.
- Student Activities Meal Requisition
- For use with events that require payment/reimbursement for refreshments, breakfast, lunch, or dinner meal expenses. Remember to attach an agenda, and a list of attendees with student, guest, or employee after their name. Meals are reminbursed at a per diam rate. In-State 7/1/13 $8.00 Breakfast $10.00 Lunch $20.00 Dinner Out-of-State 7/1/13 $10.00 Breakfast $15.00 Lunch $25.00 Dinner Link for meal and travel policies. http://www.wisconsin.edu/fadmin/fppp/fppp3610.htm
- Type of Expense Code
- Please write an expense code on your forms in the section under code. If multiple expense codes are on one receipt separate those expenses out on the paperwork. For example your total receipt is $100 but $50 is for supplies use code 3100 and on the next line $50 is for conference and workshop expenses use code 3780.


text:
When Birchbox founders Katia and Hayley first met, they had wildly different approaches to beauty. Hayley was a self-proclaimed novice, while Katia was a connoisseur. But they agreed on one thing: Shopping for products was frustrating, inefficient, and confusing. How were customers supposed to navigate the vast range of options? And in the growing online market, how could they try products without buying them all (and going bankrupt in the process)?
That's when Birchbox was born: the brainchild of two friends with a love of the internet and an itch to create a better way to shop for beauty products.
Katia and Hayley envisioned a way for customers—just like themselves—to easily and efficiently try, learn about, and purchase beauty products online. They combined monthly deliveries of personalized samples with original editorial and an exciting ecommerce shop. It was easy, efficient, and fun—a monthly delivery of surprise and delight.
We shipped our first Birchboxes in September 2010, and soon realized that men needed a better way to shop too. BirchboxMan launched in April 2012 to bring guys tailored shipments of grooming and lifestyle products. Millions of boxes and product matches later, our mission remains the same: to help customers find products they love. We keep that top of mind every single day.
Birchbox is headquartered in New York City, with operations in the United Kingdom, France, Spain, and Belgium. Here's a peek at what a day at our HQ looks like:
Ok, so that's not exactly what it's like, but we do love what we do, and spend every day thinking about how we can make our customers even happier.
Want to hear what our customers think? Check out these Birchbox reviews.


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PO Box 72708
Property Directions
Uplands Centre Hostel is located at Changanyikeni area near the University of Dar es Salaam (The Hill), opposite to the Eastern Africa Statistical Training Centre (Takwimu). Taxi charge from the airport to the hostel is Tshs. 30,000 (around USD 20). If you prefer to take public transport (Daladala), take a daladala from the airport to Ubungo Daladala stand, at a cost of Tshs. 300. Then ask for a daladala to Changanyikeni village, drop at the EASTC (Statitics) bus stand and ask for the Uplands Centre Hostel nearby. The cost is also Tshs. 300. In case of any problem our telephone number is on your confirmation email.
Hostelworld Mobile Apps
Book on the go with the new Hostelworld mobile apps.


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- 12-ounce, 100% cotton sandstone
- Micro-sanded and garment-washed for soft finish
- 100% polyester sherpa lining in body
- Nylon lining quilted to polyester insulation in the sleeves
- Contrast collar with snaps under collar for optional hood
- Two-way brass zipper front
- Left chest vertical zipper pocket
- Two large slit front pockets
- Inside welt pocket with zipper closure
- Rib knit storm cuff inside sleeve
- Work fit for better range of motion and comfort
- Triple-stitched main seams
Comfort and utility come together in Carhartt's Sandstone Ridge sherpa lined Jacket. Sturdily built out of 12-ounce, 100% cotton sandstone duck, it features 100% polyester sherpa lining in body and quilted-nylon lining in the sleeves. There's an inside welt pocket, two lower-front pockets, and a left-chest pocket with zipper. This jacket also features triple-stitched main seams and a bi-swing back for easier movement. Whether out on a job or day-to-day activities Carhartt has the most durable, dependable, and quality workwear available.
Style(s): C61, C61-Drkbrn, C61BLK, C61MOS, C61MUS, C61CML, C61-ARG, C61-DPB, C61-FRB


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text:
October 23, 2012
IRVINE, Calif. -- Shea Richards' (Lancaster, CA) shot from 35 yards out, three minutes into double overtime, secured a 3-2 win for the Lady Mustangs over the Concordia Eagles Tuesday afternoon.
Richards dribbled from the left side of the field to the right and carefully positioned herself to strike. Her final shot sailed past Concordia's Bekah Garvin, sending the Mustangs' bench into a frenzy.
The game-winner came after a silent first overtime. But what forced that overtime may have been more breathtaking than Richards' 35 yard out tally.
With exactly one second left in regulation play, all 11 Mustangs were positioned in Concordia's box. In the midst of the chaos, Jasmine Benson (Corona, CA) scrambled and notched her sixth goal of the season at the death, making the score 2-2.
However, Concordia made the Mustangs flex their offensive muscles for the entirety of the second half as TMC's defense was silenced at the 52:45 mark by Lady Eagle Megan Daniels' 11th goal of the season.
Dueling early on in the first half, Daniels drew first blood against the Mustangs, putting the Eagles first on the board three minutes into the match. However, only thirteen minutes separated that goal and the Mustangs' response as Shea Richards scored off a steal 20 yards out, and shot on an open net.
Richards' late-game heroics translated into her 13th goal of the year as well as reinforcing her status as the GSAC's top strong leg.
Mustang coach Curtis Lewis reports, "We had moments of disaster, and we had moments of brilliance. I feel like our team meshed and pieced together the victory. We believe in ourselves and we believe in where we're going."
The level of competition that the Lady Mustangs displayed against Concordia earned the squad an opening home round match in the approaching GSAC tournament. Another home round will allow Lewis and his seven seniors to play at home once again on Reese Field.
But before playoffs begin, the Lady Mustangs will put the finishing touches on their regular season schedule against GSAC rival Biola University on Saturday, October 27th. Kick-off is scheduled for 4:30 PM in La Miarada.


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Subaru unveiled its all-new 2014 Forester at the 2012 Los Angeles Auto Show Wednesday, but you might have a hard time noticing the changes unless you look closely.
The new compact SUV shares the same basic shape as the previous model, and even looks a lot like the old model.
However, the car features all-new sheet metal and more room inside. The new version also comes with an available rear-view camera, power rear door, adaptive cruise control, collision warning system and lane departure warning system.
Powering the base model is a 2.5-liter, four-cylinder engine that's good for 170 horsepower and 174 pound-feet of torque. For a little more excitement, there will also be a 2-liter, six-cylinder turbocharged direct-injection engine that generates 250 horsepower and 258 pound-feet of torque.
All 2014 Foresters will come with standard four-wheel-drive when they arrive in dealer showrooms in spring 2013.
Distributed by LAKANA. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


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Apple's iPod Touch (2010) Review, Not a Poor Man's iPhone 4by Anand Lal Shimpi on 9/9/2010 12:38 AM EST
- Posted in
- Apple
- iPod Touch
- Gadgets
86 Comments
Back to Article
descendency - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkWow. Nice to see someone admit it instead of darting around the clearly inferior device. Lots of people are just giving this ultra high review scores for no good reason.
Is it a good device? Sure. Is it an iPhone 4 minus the phone like the original iPod touch was to the iPhone at the time? Nope. not even close.
I'm kind of saddened by a lack of GPS, higher quality screen, more ram (which will impact it down the road in what you can and can't buy out of the marketplace), higher resolution camera, and speaker.
It really seems like a lower quality device than what could have been produced, which is something I never used to see Apple do. I knew they produced expensive stuff, but I always felt it was top notch. This seems . . . less so.
I was really really hoping the iPod Touch 2 would look like an iPhone 4. If it did, I would have probably bought one. Reply
quiksilvr - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkYou do not understand Apple economics. If you thought Apple has never made low quality devices, you clearly have been absent these past 5 years when the iPhone came out.
When the iPhone came out, it was gimped from the very start. It didn't have copy and paste, no flash support, no memory expansion, no multitasking. Hell, it didn't even have 3G! But it knew it had other selling points (an actual UI, shocking!) and a top-notch touchscreen.
This allows them to make minimal upgrades every year to the system (now with 3G! ZOMG!), which makes the sheep buy it every single damn year.
Apple makes products to make their previous generation look bad. But also, they make other current products to make OTHER current products in their lineup to look even better and to give them room for the future so they can make a product that makes your current phone look like a POS.
The Shuffle doesn't have a screen, but the NANO does! ZOMG lets spend 100 bucks more!
The Nano got stripped of its bigger screen, video capability, video camera, calendars and games. Why? To make the iPod Touch look good! And hey, the iTouch's got a front facing camera, a faster processor and a crisper screen! Everybody wins right?
And the iPod Touch is a gimped version of the iPhone 4 yada yada yada.
So when you are buying a Shuffle, that means you are saving up for the Nano ($100 more and I get a screen!). When you buy the Nano, you will be saving up for the Touch (only $50 more, right?), and when you buy the Touch, you will be saving up for the iPhone 4. And when you have the iPhone 4, you will be saving up for the iPhone 5. Reply
Golgatha - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - link[q]The Nano got stripped of its bigger screen, video capability, video camera, calendars and games. Why? To make the iPod Touch look good! And hey, the iTouch's got a front facing camera, a faster processor and a crisper screen! Everybody wins right?[/q]
Wow, I like my 3G and 4G Nanos my wife and I have, but the new Nano definitely does look gimped. Reply
Watwatwat - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkInferior to what? A smart phone that costs twice as much when unsubsidized? When subsidized you pay a massive amount more in total anyways, so the comparison is flawed. Appales to apples is unsubsidized cost vs unsubsidized cost. Whats the itouch vs an zune or such. Not vs an iphone.
I don'tcare if apple produces expensive stuff? Youd care if the touch cost twice as much thats for sure, you wouldn't buy it, even apple can go too far with price. This isn't the mac book air, its already having that higher end market served by the iphone itself. This is the iphone nano or such.
Comparing it to the iphone to cast it in a bad light is stupid. If you are going to do such a stupid thing, use the ipones unsubsidized price of 500 or 600 dollars to make it fair, then you really understand whats going on. Apples selling an "iphone" touch for less than half the price, so yes, something is not going to be as nice. But don't pretend the haters would spend 600 dollars on an ipod touch.
Otherwise its mindless bashing. Reply
bmurthy - Friday, September 10, 2010 - linkI think the comparison is completely fair. Your point only makes sense, if you buy the iphone not to use with AT&T and pay the full price. Why would you?
I actually think the review is an excellent reality check for people before they put the money down, considering how many people I know that are seriously considering using ipod touch a secondary device to a simpler phone. Reply
gkbeer - Friday, September 10, 2010 - linkit's sad that it doesn't have all the specs of an iPhone4, it's still a lot better than the previous gen Touch. Reply
o0hobart0o - Saturday, September 11, 2010 - linkFirst of all, this device is basically the same as an iphone 4 except the cellular service and gps. It may lack a little in memory, but that won't account for much honestly. I think everyone is mad and wants to diss this new ipod touch because, yes, it does come very close to having all the same features. Same high res screen, same high def camera with high def video recording, facetime. All these things were the main reason everyone went out to buy the iphone 4. So it is simple enough to see that everyone is just mad that apple has come out with another device that pretty much does all those things for way cheaper. So cheer up iphone 4 users, apple has been doing this for the last 10 years at least...you aren't the first ones. Reply
dmeader - Sunday, September 12, 2010 - linkDid you read the article? it is not the same as the iphone 4.
It's the same general shape and formfactor as the iphone. It shares some of the same capabilities. BUT.... NOT the same screen, NOT the same camera, NOT the same memory. Please stop with the endless Apple fanboy defense strategy against anyone who criticizes anything they make. Reply
xpose2000 - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkGreat job with this review, definitely makes me not as excited about upgrading my 2nd gen itouch. The speaker is my most disappointing thing to read. I was hoping it would sound more like current gen cell phone speakers.
I can deal with the rest of the shortcomings, I basically just wanted a camera, mic, faster processor, and wireless N. I got all those things.
I'd still say its the best option out there and will probably still get it. Reply
Watwatwat - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkyea but look at the iphones unsubsidized price.
500 dollars, or 600 dollars.
the itouch starts at 2xx dollars.
this article was poorly written to cast to ipod touch in a negative light based on apples to oranges comparison. Reply
coldpower27 - Friday, September 10, 2010 - linkI agree to some extent, though it is refreshing to see a review not praise the iPod touch as the second coming again.
It's the previous generation that is for sure, but not without limitations..
Using CDN pricing.
iPod Touch 32GB - $319
Weak Camera (960x720)
Lower RAM (256MB)
no Phone
Earbuds w/Mic Sold Seperately
iPhone 4 32GB - $779 (Unlocked)
Better Contrast, Better Blacks
Better Viewing Angles
-Protective Hardened Glass Back
-Has Phoning Capabilities
5.0 MP w/HDR
HD Video Recording
Earbuds w/Mic Included
Phoning Capabilities
-MUCH more expensive
Though each is intended for different markets, at least Apple gives us a choice... Reply
Watwatwat - Friday, September 10, 2010 - linkyea....
the other issue i have was about the microphone. Sure it only works in quiet environments, on the other hand, its inadvertently a good thing. The last thing we need are more people barking at their phones in public places...add children shouting at ipod touches face time and its just obnoxiousness. i can understand them not including it, its just not something i see myself using much at all in reality. Reply
yjagota - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - link...but the question is, is this device enough to switch from the old iPod to this new one? I think there isn't too much difference from the last generation so there is hardly any incentive for upgrading. I am giving this one a miss! Reply
coldpower27 - Friday, September 10, 2010 - linkDepends on which Gen your coming from.
iPod Touch Gen 1 (Definitely)
iPod Touch Gen 2 (Good Upgrade)
iPod Touch Gen 3 (Not so much..) Reply
DLeRium - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkWould this then negate the need to rely on the rear mic?
I do have my own better earbuds (Ultimate Ears with the .vi cord which has a built in mic), so I would probably use that for Facetime. If this means I can just set my iPod on my desk or not worry about that terribly positioned mic, then I will be satisfied.
Remember the price bump isn't that bad. We're back to the 2nd gen iPod touch price (introduced at 8gb for $229), but let's not forget the iPod Touch 3rd Gen 8gb, while priced cheaper at $199, was really a marked down 2nd gen iPod. While this new iPod is at the same price point as we saw 2 years ago, we get a far faster processor that is 1 generation ahead, double the RAM, a better display, Facetime, and near-iPhone features with two cameras now.
I think it's sufficient to say that this price bump was necessary. If anything the dropping price of the Touch was hurting the Nano. And now with the Nano losing its camera that it previously gained, I can see why Apple needs to maintain this differentiation between the two lines and keep some sort of price disparity. After all, the iPod Touch is the "elite" device. Reply
Anand Lal Shimpi - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkCorrect, the apple earbuds + mic works fine on the new iPod Touch.
The pricing makes sense in Apple's stack, but it feels too expensive for what you're getting :)
Take care,
Anand Reply
Calin - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkI think it's wrong to compare its price versus the iPhone subsidised with a contract. If you compare it with the "no strings attached" price for the iPhone, it's looking much better (even though it might still not look good enough) Reply
crimson117 - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkIf you're going to be limited to wifi, and you're going to be carrying around a phone plus some device, then why not just use a netbook? Other than facetime there are many better apps for a PC than for an iPod Touch. The only reason iPhone has killer apps is because they are usable on the road where you only have a cellular connection. Reply
Sanada - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkI personally carry a cell phone plus an itouch. Addtionally carrying a laptop/netbook is much less portable and comfortable than carrying an itouch. Itouch is just convenient to get the most basic tasks done since it's small and goes into a pocket. Reply
futurepastnow - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkCan an external mic be used for audio during video recording? Reply
trip1ex - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkDon't get where the too expensive analysis comes from. It comes across as off the cuff rather than some research/tested conclusion.
It comes out of nowhere.
The iPhone 4 is a $600+ device. Apple surely had to cut corners in order to get to the $229 pricepoint. Remember last gen the $229 pricepoint didn't even equate to a then-current gen Touch. And so cut corners they did. You seem to know this and yet.....
.... it feels too expensive? IT sounds like the marketing of cellphone companies is working on you. Hey this new smartphone is only $200.
Anyway if it is too expensive then show us (outside of the normal Apple profit margin that is.) Reply
coldpower27 - Friday, September 10, 2010 - linkAre there any similar devices that give you similar capacity right off the bat without further add-ons?
Like Touch Screen 3" or higher PMP?
Creative Zen X-FI 2 32GB?
Cowon S9 32GB
Microsoft Zune HD 32GB
Sony Walkman X Series 32GB Reply
coldpower27 - Friday, September 10, 2010 - linkSo what device offers the same functionality as the iPod Touch with the same level of capacity?
vs the iPod Touch 32GB (4G)
Microsoft Zune HD 32GB
Cowon S9 32GB
Creative Zen X-Fi 2 32GB
Sony Walkman X Series 32GB
Samsung P3 32GB
There aren't that many options I think in this class of device. Reply
quickbunnie - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkAgreed.
Apple always gave me the impression that they didn't cut corners - instead they increased the price. This device feels like it cut corners.
My breaking point was the screen. Resolution is nice, but I can't handle the horrid contrast ratio. Especially after using a few OLED phones.
I also was hoping for an "industrial" design a la iphone 4.
I actually went ahead and bought an iPhone 4 with no contract ($699). They gave me an unactivated microSIM card. I was able to use most of the iPhone without any activation whatsoever, but to use facetime I had to activate the SIM. I did so as a prepaid gophone SIM for free (albeit I had to use a different IMEI, and my balance was $0), and this opened up facetime options. I keep it on airplane mode to save batteries - it seems that to use facetime a SIM must be installed, even though its not used (taking the sim out disables facetime).
This is a very expensive option. For me, I wanted an upgraded iPod and a new camera. I don't have a camera, so using one with GPS for geotagging and HD video recording options with a decent quality sensor made up the price difference. Had I already had a camera, I would not have paid this much for it. Reply
quickbunnie - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkOh, and something to note: WiFI and bluetooth are both still accessible while in airplane mode. Reply
reticulate - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkThis is an interesting point - I'm not sure if it reflects the wider consumer environment, but Apple effectively upsold you the iPhone 4 by making the Touch not quite good enough for what you want.
Don't think of it as 'cut corners' as much as a very specifically engineered part of the lineup. Reply
reticulate - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkFrom this review and others I've seen about the interwebs, it's becoming clear Apple designed this to be within a very specific profit margin envelope. You can tell by the lower quality screen, case manufacture and somewhat reduced internal specs that this was designed very carefully to replicate some of the halo qualities of the iPhone while costing a whole bunch less to manufacture. It cleverly prevents cannibalising iPhone sales while also being the most desirable iPod in the lineup by virtue of the iOS ecosystem.
Not that this isn't par for the course with Apple these days. Say what you want about them, but they sure know how to make a profit. Reply
reticulate - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkRe-reading this I should point out I'm not a fanboy, but I do get what they're trying to do here. It's way cheaper for them to make while having enough iPhone-like qualities to sell a ton. Consumers will eat this up, and if they're first-timers on iOS might end up buying an iPhone down the track. Those of us who want an iPhone 4-like device will end up buying an iPhone 4, so either way Apple wins.
Clever and infuriating, but mostly clever. Reply
truk007 - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkYou've helped me make my decision not to buy the 4th gen iPod. I was hoping for a little better video and still photo quality, as well as GPS.
I guess I'll have to wait for the 5th gen. I guess this also means the next gen iPads will be sporting a camera as well. That would be nice. Reply
Mike1111 - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkWell, my problem with all this disappointment is that the iPod touch is still by far the best PMP with near smartphone-like qualities out there. And I think that the new iPod touch is a clear improvement over the last generation. So I can understand why most of the review scores are so high. If there's nothing better out there and it's actually a pretty good device then it has to get almost automatically a 8 or 9 out of 10.
But it's just not as close to the iPhone 4 as many people (IMHO unrealistically) have hoped. It just wouldn't make sense for Apple to basically sell a GSM-less iPhone 4 for $299 instead of $699. There's simply no reason to. The new iPod touch is still attractive enough as it is and the small competition that is out there may be cheaper but is worse in almost every other area.
I also think that much of the frustration about the device is US specific. People really want an iPhone 4 but hate AT&T and they had high hopes that the new iPod touch would get them (almost) there. In other countries where you can get the iPhone 4 on a every carrier and also contract- and netlock-free, people are just not that emotionally invested in the new iPod touch as their "savior".
One last thing: Anand, are you sure that ALL new iPod touches have only 256MB RAM? Because the 8GB version was always "special" in some way and I haven't seen a teardown or analysis of a 32GB or 64GB version yet. Reply
Mike1111 - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkAnand, are you sure about the 960x720 sensor resolution upscaled to 1280x720 video recording resolution? Wouldn't it make more sense the other way around, that the sensor resolution is 1280x720 and pictures are just cropped to 960x720 to be 4:3? Reply
gunblade - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkThis is what I think too. I couldn't think of any algorithm that could reproduce the extra horizontal field that is not capture from the sensor and not losing the feel and aspect ratio. Reply
OBLAMA2009 - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkgood job to anand flushing out the truth here, but im not prepared to call apple a rip-off artist. first of all the look is similar to the old ipod touch so they arent overtly trying to deceive you into thinking youre getting an iphone 4, which would have been an easy thing to do. second they arent charging anywhere near the noncontract iphone 4 price. $200 isnt very much for what it does--nobody else has a device that does that much and is that size. try getting any smart phone for that price. this is a decent compromise for now with some neat new features like a faster chip and a schitt camera. i went and saw it at the apple store yesterday and it is very thin and yes it does smudge horribly on the back but i liked it and will probably get one. does anyone know where the best place to get it is? what is the costco price on the 32 mb ? Reply
wintermute000 - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkHow about it Apple?
Theres still a market for those of us who just want a mp3 player with big storage and big touchscreen controls ideal for mounting in a car. hehe Reply
Stas - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkjust another rape-off. rush to the store. Reply
Lord 666 - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkI too had hoped it was just an iPhone 4 in slimmer chassis. Thanks to your completely unbiased review, the honest truth got out. Reply
MrPickins - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkSame here.
I had been planning on buying one, but they've downgraded it too much for my liking... Reply
Sahrin - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkAnandtech has reviewed an iPod. You are now officially no longer a hardware website. Welcome to the world of consumer electronics websites - enjoy competing with CNET for the most drive-by impressions. I hope your dignity was not too high a price to pay for the ignorant masses clicking on your website when they search for "iPod player."
It's honestly really sad to see this happen. Anandtech has definitely lost a lot of its credibility as a hardware site over the years, but nothing was as damaging to this as embracing the Applefication of the hardware world. It would be like the Wall Street Journal beginning to report petty crimes. It is beneath them, because it is anthithetical to their purpose. Sure, they could draw tens of millions of readers by doing so - but that's no who they are.
Anandtech chose to "change." I can't speak for the business realities of this - and I am sure they exist. I can only say that I hope that the drive-by readers who come in to get Apple rumors will generate as much ad revenue as the serious readers, who pore over the articles and take ads seriously (generating actual revenue for advertisers, as opposed to the all-powerful but completely worthless "impressions").
Maybe I misunderstand what AT's writers are trying to accomplish. I always thought it was to bring a level of objective understanding and discernment to the computer hardware world. I can tell you with absolute certainty this article doesn't accomplish that. It's a comparison of gasoline brands where neither makes any claims of superiority. It's a comparison of attributes Fuji to Granny Smith Apples - completely subjective and just as pointless.
The last bastion, the last line to cross is the one that Jon Stokes at Arstechnica (a site that went down the road Anandtech now travels a long time ago) stepped over earlier this year: expressing actual *disdain* for having an understanding of how the hardware that underpins the "neato gadgets" we use today works. "It's so boring, and difficult, and uninteresting."
Welcome to the "rest of the web" Anandtech. I'm sorry you couldn't understand that what made you valuable was the fact that you were *not* like everyone else, your coverage was not a duplicate of that provided by every other site. I'm sorry that the market dictated that you had to drop technically competent coverage in favor of vapid noise. But mostly - if it's as I fear - I am sorry that your writers are so willing to cash in comprehension for simplicity; to exchange technical knowledge for coolness, marketing schick and mass market appeal. It seems that most fundamental and undignified compromise: exchange underappreciated expertise for overrewarded incompetence.
I know I will always fondly remember the day when every author at AT aggressively pursued every story, desperately seeking an analytical truth (even if they made mistakes) by questioning, testing, verifying and then synthesizing their work into an appreciable and relevant description of "The Way Things Are." That will always be the only type of journalism which exposes readers to new ideas worth anything - and I hope that, even as the malignant cruft of this kind of story spreads through AT's failing body, there will still be a place for the occasional article of this type, so that I can find a reason to continue to patronage the site. Farewell, old friend.
We barely knew ye. Reply
icrf - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkHuh? Not a hardware site? Did you miss the Sandy Bridge, Bulldozer, Bobcat, Cortex A9/A15 articles of the last couple weeks?
Anand, keep up the good work. I enjoyed the hardware-focused review of a consumer electronics device, and everything else you do. I thought a new Touch might be good to pick up, but the lack of memory and cheap screen convinced me otherwise. I'm guessing your average CNET-style CE site doesn't pick up on such things. Reply
Anand Lal Shimpi - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkWe've actually reviewed quite a few iPods on the site, including the first one reviewed back in 2002 by Matthew Witheiler:
About 7 years ago I made the conscious decision to start covering Mac hardware. Macs and PCs were headed on a collision course and we started to see convergence in the technology. At the same time, over the past few years we've seen a lot of PC technology make its way into consumer electronics devices. Intel is shipping SoCs for TVs and smartphone SoCs are easily as powerful as the PC hardware we were reviewing a decade ago.
We still review motherboards, CPUs, SSDs, we talk about overclocking, memory technologies and of course GPUs, but we've added to the list. What constitutes a PC is far broader these days than when we first started the site, and I suspect that expansion will continue. As we've added new categories we've also tried to apply our unique approach to those reviews. I believe our iPod Touch review is the only one on the web that does objective audio quality testing, display quality testing and (later today) battery life testing. While subjective analysis is important, we try to bring objective testing and the scientific method to all of our reviews.
I'm glad you have fond memories of AT, but if anything I believe our coverage is deeper today than it has ever been. We do more enterprise, SSD and notebook coverage than we've ever done in the past, and our CPU, GPU and motherboard reviews are more thorough than they've ever been. On top of all of that, we actually do a lot of behind the scenes work with manufacturers to make sure that issues with products are discovered and fixed before they are sold to end users.
I will personally never stop wanting to understand how the hardware works. After over 13 years of running AnandTech I can honestly say that I'm more interested in what I do than I've ever been. I enjoy learning, and there's no better way to learn than to be introduced to new technologies and try to figure out how they work.
If there's a particular area that you feel we're neglecting I'm more than willing to listen. We're always looking to add more coverage to the site and go deeper in existing areas. You'll see another call for writers by the end of this year that supports that.
I appreciate your concern for the site and taking the time to post, and more than anything I do appreciate that you having read the site for long enough to care. I know I can't make everyone happy, but I will always try.
Take care,
Anand Reply
gbrayut - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkI very much appreciated the objective audio quality review and comparison with Zune HD. Most Apple product reviews are very subjective, so having a hardware level perspective with benchmark numbers is a breath of fresh air.
Keep up the great work! Reply
kmmatney - Friday, September 10, 2010 - linkBye - Don't let the door hit you on your way out. Reply
SadTouchLover - Monday, September 13, 2010 - linkWhat a tool. I read the first paragraph of your "novel" and just stopped. This was exactly the kind of review that you claim to enjoy from AT. They blew the whistle on a consumer product that was being hailed as much more than it actually is. Again, you are a tool.
"I only like a website that reviews obscure, third party RAM modules and boutique GPU manufacturers." Good riddance you loser. Reply
tipoo - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkThe previous Touch was far from the best sounding device (try a Sony Walkman), does this statement mean that the new one has substantially better SQ? Reply
watzupken - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkI suppose the reviewer did a great job of pointing out the shortcomings of the product. At the end of the day, I think it is still a decent product and improvement over its past gen iPod Touch. Apple is also not likely to make this a better alternative over their iPads by giving it a good screen, and more memory. Although the iPad has a bigger screen, the iPod Touch is still capable of cannibalizing the sales of iPad, especially when it is much cheaper. Reply
tipoo - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkI'd be really interested to see some web benchmarks on this device. We know it uses the Apple A4 chip, but, like the iPhone 4, we don't know the clock speed. Comparing benchmarks may give us an estimate.
Also note that the iFixit teardown shows that it uses half the RAM the iPhone 4 uses, I'd like to see how that impacts it. Reply
tipoo - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkI must be losing my sanity, all of those things were on the front page. Nevermind this here bumbling idiot! Reply
anactoraaron - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkYet there is no direct link to this "gagdets" section of the website... a minor oversight... Reply
El_Capitan - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkFrequent reader, first time poster.
Usually posting a comment for an Apple product usually incurs a wrath from Apple fanboys, but it just distills to me their ignorance and distain of constructive criticism. I've had an Apple Classic from way back in the day, a Video iPod from 5 years ago, and gave my girlfriend an iPod Touch version 3 a year ago, so I'm not an Apple hater. I also used Macbooks on occasion, but am primarily a PC/Laptop/Server builder/user.
I've been waiting a while now to update my Video iPod, but haven't decided on what I want. I played with my gf's iPod Touch, and it's nice with all the apps, but then there's the Zune and it's OLED display. Granted, what I'd be using it for is listening to music, watching videos, playing games, and browsing the web when connected to wi-fi, but I have my Blackberry Bold 9800 that can handle all the functions of an iPod Touch minus the touch features and apps, while my Nintendo DSi has a great selection of games. While my Video iPod can still play music and videos, it's not as great for videos.
For my choices:
1. Watching videos - Zune HD or PSP Go or iPod Touch
2. Playing games - Nintendo DSi, PSP Go, or iPod Touch
3. Listening to music - iPod Touch, Zune HD
4. Browsing the web - iPod Touch
Now, while the iPod Touch does all those things, the only thing holding me back is that the display isn't the best. There's fun to be had with all their apps, but there's funner games to be played elsewhere.
I would have definitely gone in to buy an iPod Touch 4, but they're still lagging behind on the display. Instead, it looks to me that they want to cash in on just upgrading the aesthetic appeal, and hope that being a 4th gen gets people to upgrade, and not the reality of what the real benefits are.
I was close to purchasing a Zune HD, but so far am faring well with my trio of Blackberry Bold 9800, Video iPod, and Nintendo DSi. I guess with the letdown on the iPod Touch 4, I'll still be waiting until something better comes along. Reply
gbrayut - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkI purchased a 32GB Zune HD and absolutely love it for playing music or watching videos (mostly podcasts). The form factor is about half the size of an iPhone or iPod touch, which makes it easier to use when jogging or working out, and it retails for about $50 cheaper than the iPod touch.
It definitely has its short comings: the mobile browser is pretty bad, doesn't have very many apps, and no wifi updates for podcasts when outside your home network (suppose to be fixed in Windows Phone 7 and next gen Zune HD). Also while it has the potential to be a great gaming platform using XNA there just aren't a lot of developers working on games right now (again hopefully will change with Windows Phone 7 release).
I would highly recommend Zune HD as a Personal Media Player, but don't buy one hoping for a good web browser or a ton of games. I do however look forward to the next Zune release and will evaluate Windows Phone 7 when it comes out. Reply
Taracta - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkMaybe instead of trying to compare a mini Tablet to a cellphone, a comparison to another tablet would be in order even if that tablet is larger?
Screen issues? Compared to what? That screen is better than anything else other than the iPhone4!
I would suggest that going against the iPad, the iTouch would compare much more favorable. If you want a iPhone4 without a contract, BUY ONE WITHOUT A CONTRACT! Reply
SimKill - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkBetter in resolution/dpi, but quality? Reply
Taracta - Friday, September 10, 2010 - linkOne in which you can see the individual pixels and one in which you cannot see the individual pixels, which one would you say is the better quality? Aside from that I had to ignore the video testing done because from the outset it obvious that they didn't even attempt to adjust the black level (Brightness)! Give me contrast levels, color saturation , etc. when you don't have the backlight at maximum so that you cannot get even close to black. Do you expect me to assume that iTouch 300DPI panel cannot do black? Or at least a better black than what was measured? Keep in mind that it is still better than that of the iPhone 3GS by their measurments. Reply
SadTouchLover - Monday, September 13, 2010 - linkWay to get off on a technicality, bub. Everyone in the world knows that the ipod touch is meant to mirror the features of an iphone. Buy an iphone without a contract? And pay 400 more dollars for a better camera and screen? You're not making any sense, man! Are you drunk? This ipod touch is a clear case of price gouging. They're hoping that clueless consumers outside of the geek elite will eat this thing up, which will probably definitely be the case. They left the buzzword features and snubbed the "below the surface" quality. BOOOOOOO APPLE BOOOOOOOO Reply
anemic - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkWhat's with all the Apple articles lately? I've heard enough about these disposable toys the last few months to last a lifetime. STOP IT ANAND! JUST STOP IT! Reply
B3an - Friday, September 10, 2010 - linkYep Anand, less with the shiny toys and more with the grown up stuff please.
I know that you review far more hardware these days than you ever have, but theres too much time wasted on junk like this, which just seems to be for more page hits. It's a bit dumbed down as well, get more technical, you could also atleast take this stuff apart and mess with it/see what components are used. Reply
manicfreak - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkI don't know what to say about Rightmark Audio Analyzer if it gives some of the ratings as "Excellent" for the iPod. *roll eyes* Reply
gunblade - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkIt is a frequency/spectrum analyzer.
Human ear is inherently deceiving and human brain is biased, so equipment is developed to help doing measurement, where human bias and prejudice is not part of the equation. Reply
kmmatney - Friday, September 10, 2010 - linkSince it shows the iPod is a good music player, it has to be a bad test suite, right? *rolls eyes*. Reply
Verve - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkI like the new iPod Touch since I'm upgrading from 1G (yes, it still lives with diminished battery life). I think the new iPod Touch is much improved in comparison. Besides, I'm not looking for it to be an iPhone substitute -- it just has to be my entertainment gadget that's easy to carry and last a reasonably long time. Reply
Brazos - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkMy wife only has hearing in one ear so the mono software switch may be enough to get a new nano to replace her 3rd gen nano. I'm sure they could do that with a software upgrade but it will never happen. I'm tired of have to make mono mixes for her :) Reply
synaesthetic - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkI am very thankful to you for your RMAA of the iPods vs. the Zune HD, and your comment that digital music players are basically equal at this point.
People still seem to believe that there's a difference in sound quality between well-designed DAPs. This is no longer true. The only SQ difference these days is when there is a demonstrable *problem* with the player--such as a gross bass rolloff caused by substandard filtering capacitors on the output stage, for instance.
Now if only smartphones could stop hissing horribly when used as an MP3 player... Reply
chemist1 - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkI'm glad you've taken a stab at approaching sound quality (SQ) testing of the Apple ipods in a sophisticated manner. However, I'm afraid that the tests you've done simply aren't sufficient for this purpose. General tests for THD, IMD, noise, and frequency response will catch gross errors. But a device can be fine in these areas, and yet have flawed reproduction for other reasons. More broadly, running a device through the RMAA's battery of tests is only the first step. Then you need to listen, carefully, and identify the flaws in the sound. Then you have to figure out what the source of the flaw might be, and then determine if there is some measurement you can do that could identify and quantify the audible error. This is where years of experience as, say, an audio engineer designing electronics would come in. I.e., what you did ----running it through your RMAA, finding no significant flaws, and then making the pronouncement that "I believe we've hit a ceiling for PMP audio playback quality"----is just as over-simplified as, say, concluding an SSD is fine based on its passing a a single battery of memory benchmarks. It takes years of training, experience, and sophistication to evaluate computer components. Evaluating audio is no different.
Turning to the ipods themselves: The SQ of the ipods has gone downhill since the gen 5.5 ipod classic, which used a Wolfson DAC chip comparable to those in audiophile-grade CD players (http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/news/comments/aud... Their switch to Cirrus Logic was not a good one, and seems to have been accompanied by the introduction of an error into their DAC algorithm. Objective testing (and, I think, much more sophisticated testing than that presented in this article---as I mentioned, SQ is about more than just noise, IMD and THD) reveals this flaw:
Redwine audio, which does audiophile upgrades to ipods (they upgrade the entire signal path following the output of the DAC, including the coupling capacitors and op amp), will not work on anything later than the 5.5, because they've tried the later models and find the output from the DACs is simply not good enough to enable them to achieve acceptable SQ (http://www.aloaudio.com/imod-faq/):
"Q: Will you ever modify the 6th generation iPods ("iPod Classic")
A: No – these use what we have found to be an inferior sounding dac and the sound cannot be improved upon. The sound quality of the 4G, 5G, and 5.5G iMods are far superior. If the newest iPods could be improved and were worth the effort to mod, we would have enjoyed offering an iMod for them and the business this would have created for us." [N.B.: This also applies to the other iPods, including the Touch, which likewise do not use the Wolfson DAC.] Reply
chemist1 - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkWhat I should have said was:
As you know, it takes years of training, experience, and sophistication to evaluate computer components. Evaluating audio is no different. I.e., if you want to get serious about evaluating SQ, you need to find someone who has as much sophistication, training and experience with audio as you do with computers. And that's not going to be easy.
At the very least, his or her ear must be good enough to be able to distinguish between different CD players in blind testing. I can do this, so I know it can be done. Reply
dlinderholm - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkThe lack of GPS is the one thing that I really think they missed out on. For me that would be a far better feature than Face Time, but I know I'm probably in the minority there. Ah well. If I could have used it instead of a dedicated GPS I would have picked one up today, issues with display quality notwithstanding (though the incredibly low-resolution primary camera would be a tough pill to swallow). Fortunately for my pocketbook the lack of GPS pretty much kills any interest I had in the device. Reply
truk007 - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkI'm with you on that one. A GPS receiver would have been the selling point for me. Reply
OrionAntares - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkI'd disagree on the GPS because there are after-market options for adding GPS to the Touch as well as giving it some extra battery power since GPS is a real battery drainer. I don't know how well those options fit the new version with the slimmer design and what adjustments might need to be made for it. The garbage camera they put into the back because of their need to cut off an extra 1/20th of an inch from the depth and keep the edges of the case rounded is what I'm upset with. Reply
SadTouchLover - Monday, September 13, 2010 - linkHahaha the aftermarket options? You mean like strapping a huge, expensive cradle to it? Yeah that's a great idea. Super functional.
Also, I agree with you BIG time on the camera. BIG time. Reply
OrionAntares - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkI'm extremely disappointed with Apple in this release. I'm not disappointed in the cost cutting measures I was expecting from them such as the RAM, IPS, and GPS but in their "form over function" garbage and how it gimped the rare camera. The rare camera was the one feature I was actually looking forward to for this revision and the blew it. They didn't have to give it the 5MP camera of the iPhone (or 8MP of the Driod X :-O ). But a 3MP camera or even a 2MP camera would have been good as long as it was auto-focus and had a flash. Reply
Watwatwat - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkwhats an iphone cost unsubsidized? atleast twice as much in many places.
Sure the screens not as good, but its still got contrast and black levels better than the 3Gs, which was hardly considered horrific. Setting it up against smart phones is setting it up to fail. Its casting it in a poor light on purpose, against its actual competition like the zune and such it does far better.
Whats the cost of a year of iphone contract?;) Reply
SadTouchLover - Monday, September 13, 2010 - linkDon't do your little winkie face at us, jacko. This is obviously a case of Apple trying to float a subpar product in hopes of the masses being too clueless to care. They absolutely could have put in a camera that wasn't WORTHLESS and a screen that was the same as the iphone and STILL made profit. Just not as gigantic of profit. BOOOOO APPLE. Reply
sabot00 - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkYou should compare the iPod Touch 4G to the 3G too, you haven't compared the 2 at all.
I want to know is the "weak" speaker is better/worse than the 3G and is the black level on the screen better/worse. Reply
grant2 - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkOk Anand, honestly, what multi-function device were you playing MP3s on back in the year 2000? Reply
grahamnp - Thursday, September 09, 2010 - linkNice to see a review that points out the flaws instead of why they don't matter. Reply
AnnonymousCoward - Friday, September 10, 2010 - linkI leave a dedicated MP3 player in my car. It makes a lot of sense, since it's always plugged in, it has a dedicated 24hr battery, it holds a ton, and it's easier than messing with your phone.
The SanDisk Fuze kicks butt. $50-70 gets you a 2-8GB model with an empty microSD slot. So you can have a 10GB player for $63! 24GB for $104! Even expand it up to 40GB. ...versus the iPod Nano 8GB for $149, or 16GB for $179! And you can transfer music like any USB drive. Reply
austonia - Friday, September 10, 2010 - linkif it had GPS i would be interested in getting a Touch to replace my Evo for tracking the miles i walk while listening to audiobooks. Evo is a bit bulky and heavy but gets the job done. maybe next year. seems like it won't be long before they run out of features to add.
also not a fan of the shiny metallic case. easy to scratch and then it looks worn out. better if they used extruded aluminum like the nanos, or anything else really. Reply
jed22281 - Friday, September 10, 2010 - linkCompared to the engadget review.....
Will always come back to you guys for objective/measured reviews.
You simply are one of the best in the business. Reply
SadTouchLover - Monday, September 13, 2010 - linkAgreed. Reply
Pliablemoose - Sunday, September 12, 2010 - linkI know you got lots of attention for bashing the iPhone 4's reception, but you're off the mark here, you're asking Apple to produce an iPhone 4 for less than 1/2 of the price.
Will it get you page views? Yes.
Is it a fair comparison? No.
If iPhone 4 performance equality is what one wants, buy an off contract iPhone 4 and don't activate it.
Problem solved. Reply
SadTouchLover - Monday, September 13, 2010 - linkUh do you REALLY believe that adding a camera that isn't a dismal 0.7 megapixels and using screen materials that aren't from the bargain bin would make up the $350+ difference between an ipod touch and an unsubsidized iphone? No. This was a calculated move by Apple to get the kiddies to purchase this product and make as much money as possible. They left enough features so Steve Jobs could have his buzzwords at the keynote address and shaved material quality to maximize profits. An Iphone 4 costs less than 200 bucks to make. Apple just doesn't give a hoot about consumers who aren't going to pay them upfront AND month to month. Reply
mbf - Sunday, September 12, 2010 - linkI had deliberately held off getting a 32GB iPod Touch 3G, because I wanted to see what the new 4G would bring to the table. When it was finally introduced I was casually optimistic. Now and especially after reading this article, I'm not really sure if it's worth the asking price "here" compared to the 3G version.
When I say "here" I mean Denmark, where at the moment the cheapest offer for the 32GB 3G (as long as stocks last) is DKR 1789 (approx. $306) while the 32GB 4G is on preorder for DKR 2289 (approx. $391). Not only do I feel ripped off by the unjust price hike (which in itself isn't anything new), but I seriously question if the 4G is worth this substantial amount of extra cash.
I can't really see myself using Face Time, although I *was* hoping for the actual iPhone 4 IPS "Retina display" and also the double amount of RAM.
I'll probably use the iPod Touch more for "serious" apps and also plan to do some development of my own. It probably won't see much use as a media player.
Any thought or comments? Reply
SadTouchLover - Monday, September 13, 2010 - linkI did the same thing and held off on the 3G. This new touch is just not worth it and frankly I don't want to purchase it and reinforce Apple's deplorable behavior. BAD doggy, Apple, BAD! Reply
TheFlyingSquirrel - Sunday, September 12, 2010 - linkdissapointed in the screen, memory and camera but whatever
I'll wait to see what microsoft and sony churn out Reply
ianmills - Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - linkIt looks like the reason Anand is taking so long to post the battery results is because the battery SUCKS on the 4g. Putting it in sleep mode the battery goes from 80% to 20% over night. lame.
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=... Reply
Hrel - Sunday, October 10, 2010 - linkI'd probably buy this if: It had the same camera sensor as the iphone. Had an sd expansion slot, an fm tuner you can turn on and off and support for other browsers if it doesn't now. Also $200 should get you 16GB and $300 should get you 32GB (as it does now). I'd like a nicer screen but I'm not willing to pay for it; good enough. Reply
Mezinger - Tuesday, December 28, 2010 - linkI've just shelled out for an unlocked iPhone 4 to replace my first gen iPod touch... it's beautiful but I have to say I don't get the battery life out of it that I would have expected... which left me wondering how it compared to the newest touch? Any news? Should I be suffering from buyers remorse? Thanks. Reply


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Lilla Crawford and More to Perform at New York Stage and Film's Winter Gala Honoring Roger Horchow and Tony Shalhoub, 12/9
New York Stage and Film continues plans for its Annual Winter Gala, to be held on Sunday, December 9, 2012 at The Plaza Hotel (770 Fifth Avenue, New York City), honoring Tony Award Winning producer Roger Horchow (Annie), and Emmy Award and Golden Globe Award Winning actor Tony Shalhoub ("Monk").
The evening will include performances by Lilla Crawford, David Hyde Pierce, and Billy Porter. Guests will also include: Kathleen Marshall, Lily Rabe, John Patrick Shanley, Duncan Sheik, John Slattery & Talia Balsam, Susan Stroman, Jon Tenney, Alex Timbers, and Jennifer Westfeldt.
Honorary Co-Chairs of the 2012 Gala Committee are Tim Daly, Sally Horchow, David Hyde Pierce, Jennifer Westfeldt, and Jon Hamm.
New York Stage and Film is the not-for-profit company dedicated to both emerging and established artists in the development of new works for theater and film. Since 1985 New York Stage and Film has played a significant role in the development of new plays, provided a home for a diverse group of artists free from critical and commercial pressures and established itself as a vital cultural institution for residents of the Hudson Valley and the New York metropolitan region. The company recently completed the 28th Powerhouse Summer season, its annual collaboration with Vassar College, within which NYSAF has developed and premiered numerous plays including the Tony Award winning Tru and Sideman, the Broadway hits American Idiot and A Steady Rain, and the Tony and Pulitzer award-winning Doubt. For more information, visit www.newyorkstageandfilm.org.
All proceeds from the evening will benefit New York Stage and Film's support of artists from around the country in the development and production of original work for theater and film.
Photo Credit: Walter McBride / Retna Ltd.


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156 Reviews
Boils quickly and stows easily.
Click on the Jetboil Flash Personal Cooking System, and hum a show tune or two—by the time you hit the second chorus (two minutes), you'll have steaming hot delight. Unlike classic camp stoves, this self-contained unit eliminates the issues of an open burner and takes the guesswork out of a quick meal. Finish your food, pack the fuel canister inside the insulated mug, and stow the whole lightweight kit away in compact style.
- FluxRing heat exchanger system maximizes fuel efficiency and promotes even heating by uniformly distributing flame along the bottom of the cup
- Innovative temperature indicator is integrated into the cozy to show you when your meal or drink is ready to please your palate
- Adjustable burner is surrounded by a windscreen to reduce heat loss and improve fuel efficiency
- Push-button Piezo ignition gets the stove rolling without matches and is integrated into the burner housing to keep it intact
- Glove-friendly fuel valve allows for easy flame adjustment and afterward, it folds into the burner for safe storage
- One-liter anodized aluminum cooking cup is lightweight, transfers heat efficiently, and cleans up fast
- Neoprene cozy is designed to stay in place while stove is in use; it increases heat retention and improves cooking efficiency
- Clear measuring cup with graduated lines unsnaps from the bottom of the cooking cup for greater precision when preparing meals as well as preventing burns on the hot FluxRing right after use
- Translucent lid is BPA-free, shortens boil times, and features a drink-through spout for sipping coffee or pouring hot liquids
- Stove burner and cooking cup nest together for easy storage; 100g fuel canister also fits inside cup but is SOLD SEPARATELY
- Included fuel canister tripod stabilizer attaches to the bottom of your fuel canister for security while cooking
- Metal pot support (sold separate) folds out and provides a solid base for a small backpacking pot, pan, or kettle when you prepare multi-course meals
- Jetboil recommends that you boil a half-liter (16oz or 2 cups) of water at a time to prevent burns and boiling over
- Winner of the Backcountry Magazine 2010 Editors' Choice Award
- Item #JET0035
Tech Specs
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Tech Specs
- Reviews
What do you think about this product?
Have questions about this product?
What a gem
- Familiarity: I've used it several times
"I haven't gotten to use this gem yet, but I've used others before and love the ease and compactness. I wanted it for backpacking in the backcountry and it's perfectly lightweight and fits all parts easily. Does not come with the propane container though, so get that as well in a separate purchase." -Carley Gross
Backpacking essential
- Familiarity: I've used it once or twice and have initial impressions
I wouldn't go backpacking without a one. Boils water fast
jetboil on the appalachian trail
I've been using this jetboil everyday for 127 days now and it's still kicking! It boils fast and is easy to work. It's only down fall is the plastic bowl that comes with it. My bowl is cracked but I've definitely put it through the ringer! I love this product and highly recommend it!
Thank you for the review. That is awesome you have used it that many time already! Same, my bowl broke too. They do sell them separately if you need one.
Awesome stove
So quick and easy to use/pack away.
can't live without it!!!
- Familiarity: I've put it through the wringer
If you adventure ride on the motorcycle or backpack you need one of these!!! boils water in minutes and makes the morings come to life much quicker!!!
I absolutely love this stove!
This is a must have for backpacking or camping! Super light and compact and easy to use. I also bought the pot adapter and the one meal I have made in my pot was easy and turned out as if I made it at home on the stove top. I recommend 100%
Best Stove I ever had
- Familiarity: I've used it several times
wonderful stove! good for every use with pot support
Ultimate Game Changer
- Familiarity: I've put it through the wringer
JetBoil has changed the game when it comes to camping, and I will never go on a backpacking trip without this in my pack. This could never replace a full stove burner set-up for car camping, but it is a great addition to have for coffee when you just can't wait. For backpacking this is all you need, whether it be boiling water for a dehydrated meal, heating up some pre-packed meals, or whatever use you can think of this is up to the task. I seriously cannot say enough good things about the JetBoil, I don't know how I ever camped without it.
Jetboils are amazing I love how quick they heat up water and the faster I can get to eating! Amazing product
- Familiarity: I've put it through the wringer
The Jetboil flash is an awesome, efficient little stove. Super easy and straightforward to use. Ditch the insta-coffee (yuck) and grab the Coffee Press attachment for your favorite brew in the field. It's also super handy for your backpacking meals, just boil some water and let 'er rip! Everything stores away inside the cooking canister and makes it super easy to pack.
Contact me directly at 801-204-4578 or firstname.lastname@example.com if you have any additional questions or need help with a camping or backpacking setup!
great product in all conditions
- Familiarity: I've used it several times
Perfect for camping, hiking in any weather. Light, durable, and is so efficient boiling water a 100g container of fuel lasts a good while.
Key for any camping bag!
- Familiarity: I've used it several times
Boils water lighting fast! It indicates temperature with an indicator right on the cozy to let you know when it is ready. It all compacts into itself for easy storage and packing. This is a perfect lightweight stove to meet all of your cooking needs!
Backpackers Dream
- Familiarity: I've put it through the wringer
This does it all. I do not cook in it, I just use it for boiling water, but it is compact- the stove attachment is a must, and it can fit into most backpacks side sleeves for easy transport. No question about it, this is a must have item to keep it lightweight and versatile. It's taken a lot of abuse and still runs great with no dents. Just make sure its dry when finished using!
Great Stove
At under a pound, contains all of its components within itself, and fast to boil water, I would say the Jetboil is one of the best stoves on the market.
I have boiled water in about a minute with this and was eating within another 5-10 minutes on the trail. This stove is so easy to use and breaks down into simple packing components.
The 100g fuel canister fits inside of the cup with the stabilizer and the stove really easily. With that canister, it will run around 12 full boils. I've found that I usually can get more.
The accessories for the jetboil are neat too! I have used the pan and the java press in the mornings to get my day started right.
Wow, hot water!
Makes water and other liquids hot really darn good and fast. Perfect for any situation that calls for hot stuff
Makes camping so much easier
- Familiarity: I've used it several times
The Jetboil Flash makes camping a lot easier and fun.
I use it mainly to boil or heat up water for hot cocoa, instant coffee and freeze dried meals. It warms the watet up easily in 2 minutes or so.
It saves a lot of headache trying to wait for some water to boil over a fire. I absolutely love setting it up in the morning for a hot cup of coffee while watching the sun rise. It is a zen moment.
At night having that warm meal makes all the difference and the Jetboil really makes things quick and easy.
It packs down nicely. You can pack the tripod stand, burner, a 100gm fuel canister and a jetboil pot holder (sold separately) all inside the jetboil cup with the lid on. It makes it nice to pack up in any backpack.
The 100gm fuel canister actually lasts a good amount of time. I have done a two weekend trips for 2 people and I still have some fuel left in the canister. With 100gm fuel canisters going for ony $10-13 each, it is a really economical purchase.
Some ask the difference between the flash and zip. From my understanding, the zip is not self igniting and needs a matxh or lighter. The flash is a push button ignition.
Another plus about the flash is the parts are easy to purchase in case your burner bums out on you or the button stops working.
One of the best purchases I have made for the outdoors. Be it a full day hike, weekend trip or weeks or months out in the bush, the Flash is a must have!
Great Stove
- Familiarity: I've used it several times
Love this stove! Very simple to use, boils water super fast, and seems very efficient on fuel usage. Have not had any issues with wind or altitude, but haven't tried it in sub-freezing temps yet. I was very impressed with how quickly water boils in this thing! Also, with the available fry pan you can even cook some freshly caught fish creekside for a nice shore lunch.
After purchasing this I have pretty much retired my whisperlite setup just because this is so much easier to use. As long as your not trying to go ultralight, this would be a perfect setup for your pack!
Jetboil Flash Stove Review
- Familiarity: I've put it through the wringer
I've had this cooking system for a few seasons now and it keeps delivering. It was my first Jetboil, and I was hesitant to buy a cooking system that was only a water boiler. However, I couldn't be more pleased. I can boil water, press out some coffee, boil more water, and make a freeze dried meal all in less than 10 minutes. It's perfect.
I have never had any issues with wind - the flux ring does a great job of blocking the gusts. The only issue I have had with mine is the starter went out. This is totally my fault though. I left it out overnight in a rainstorm in Oregon. Everything still works just fine, I just have to start it with a lighter now. The starter is replaceable too, I just haven't got around to it yet.
I will likely buy another (larger) Jetboil in the near future here for boiling larger amounts of coffee on group car camping trips.
Any questions on this, hit me up!
this was a gift, From what they have said it works awesome and they plan on using it all the time
Excellent Pack Stove
- Familiarity: I've used it several times
While it's one of my more bigger items in my pack, it's a must have. Everything is packable already within it's own container with fuel. Starting her up is a cinch you'll have boiling water in minutes. Highly recommend.
Any idea how long a canister lasts? roughly,...
Any idea how long a canister lasts? roughly, of course..
So many variables to how long a canister will last, but using Jetboil's specs (which are given in liters) a 100g canister will do about 10 liters @ about 2.5 minutes per 1/2 liter at a time, so figure about about 45-50 minutes. For the 230g canister, it's 23 liters, so figure about 1 hour and 45 minutes. Perfect world scenario-10 grams of fuel per liter boiled, or 5 grams per the cup's capacity. Results are going to vary wildly, so give yourself a good margin for error. Hope this helps.
While Phil's mathematical deduction is probably impeccable, it's always good to bring extra fuel when using a new stove until you are accquainted with its rate of comsumption. At least that's what works for me.
I mark my cylinders with hashes when I use them. Each hash represents "a boil." Helps me keep track. Would love to tell you how many hashes I've made on a cylinder before it went dry, but I only recently started this process.
One "trick" for finding the level of gas inside is to pour hot water down one side of the cylinder. Where there is no liquid gas, the metal will stay hot... but at the "waterline" you will feel the metal get cold because the fuel is absorbing the heat.
I've found that I can get about and hour and half out of mine.
Will it work at 10,000 plus feet, or below...
Will it work at 10,000 plus feet, or below freezing?
Yes and yes. Here is info provided by Jetboil:
"All canister stoves suffer a performance drop in cold weather. The colder the fuel, the lower the vapor pressure, and the lower the burner output. The result can be noticeably longer boil times and difficulty lighting the burner with the built-in piezoelectric ignitor. Jetpower?s lower firing rate reduces canister cooling and increases performance. Jetpower fuel, with propane, helps mitigate cold weather problems. We suggest that you keep the canister in a warm pocket between uses and remove it immediately prior to heating your food. Carry an extra canister and keep it warm to swap out with a cold one when necessary, and always carry matches or a lighter as backup."
Also read neip138207's comment below, which confirms that it will work just fine.
I agree with Eli's research above. I do mostly alpine/sub-alpine backpack trips, mostly above 10,000 ft. Last September I spent several nights (and prepared several meals with my Jetboil) above 12,000 ft with no problems. I did keep fuel canister in foot of my sleeping bag and then kept fuel inside jacket just before firing up the stove (as Jetboil recommends). I also tried a homemade fuel "cozy" - out of a couple can coozies - to see if that would hold in heat after removing from sleeping bag (it only seemed to help marginally and I no longer bring it on trips). The only problem that I notice with Jetboil is that the spark igniter doesn't work at higher elevations (or is that due to colder temps?). I rely on my Bic lighter for ignition (also as Jetboil recommends) when that happens.
You may want to consider Jetboil Sol stoves (both the titanium and non-titanium versions). These models use Jetboil's "Thermo-Regulate Burner Technology" to work in "temperatures down to 15 degrees Fahrenheit".
Pic below shows Jetboil Flash at a chilly (26.4 deg F) 10,400 ft in the Wind River Range (note homemade fuel cozy).
At what altitude will this stove no longer...
At what altitude will this stove no longer be effective? Also, any trouble with the fuel in winter conditions?
I used this on the summit of Mt. of The Holy Cross 14,005' to make coffee and it boiled the water very quickly. We did a sunrise summit. At 5:30am the temp on the summit was in the low 20's with a windchill in the teens and had no issues boiling the water.
Where can you buy the fuel canister from,...
Where can you buy the fuel canister from, it says sold separately?
How do you refill the gas?
What type of fuel can you use?
I see that msr sells extra fuel bottles, would that work for refilling any fuel canister?
Any sporting goods or outdoor supply store will sell the fuel canisters.
Refill is accomplished by changing out the empty fuel canister (attaches to the underside of the stove).
Use isobutane/propane mix fuel.
As long as the msr replacement fuel canisters are compatible with this stove, you can use them.
when you say "fuel bottle" do you mean the bottles used for the whisperlite stove or the isopro canisters used for say a pocket rocket? Any type of canister should work (might be some performance issues with different fules but all have the same type of attachment) but the fuel bottles MSR sells would not work with a canister stove. Canister stoves have the disadvantage of needing a whole new canister when they are empty or getting low.
Is this system good for two people?
Is this system good for two people?
Sure about 90 seconds to boil water, dump it in food pouch or wherever. Then another 90 seconds or so for the next person.
Most dehydrated meals have two servings of about 275 calories each in the envelope, cooked with two cups of water--which is the capacity of this stove.
What's the difference between this and the...
What's the difference between this and the SOL stove+cup? Is this one smaller?
yes this is smaller than the sol
it looks like this one is actually 1 liter and the SOL is .8 liter so the SOL is a little more compact and a little lighter.
Just to be clear, this is larger than the SOL. The flash is 1 liter and the SOL is .8 liter and is also 0.6" shorter and 3.5oz lighter than the flash (according to jetboil specs) It also has a unique valve to help with cold weather use. I will be posting pics for comparison and also weighing both of them with a digital scale. The neoprene cozy is a little thicker and the handle is more durable on the flash, with the SOL being a little thinner cozy and the handle being a thinner rubberized material, to save weight I am guessing. Hope this clears things up and for those who have never seen the SOL.
would the stove still work in really cold...
would the stove still work in really cold temps like <0f also will it work in altitudes of 15,000'
Yes. Their fuel (a blend of propane and isobutane) is designed for both, although it will affect cooking speed.
I took mine to the summit of mt. Massive in colorado, 14,420sumthing during a late summer snow storm and it worked perfectly.
How difficult is it to find fuel in Chile?...
How difficult is it to find fuel in Chile? Specifically, I'll be flying into Santiago and hope that it will be possible to find some fuel when I get there.
You shouldn't have any problems. Remember that any canister with a Lindal (EN417) valve will work.
This might help- http://www2.ing.puc.cl/~cseebach/mountain/stores/index.html
A quick Google search for climbing equipment stores in Santiago, Chile turns up lots and lots of other options. Basically, it doesn't look like anyone has any problem finding what they need with much of anything. Patagonia and Aconcaqua draw in lots of people, so you know that if there's a demand, there's always a supply.
Try this from Jetboil or give them a call (888-611-9905)to see if they have more distributors in Santiago.
Andes Gear
AV 11 de Septiembre 2214 of 173
Santiago Providencia Chile
+56 2 3356113
Good luck, have fun, wish I was going with you, hope that helps.
Write your answer here...Finding fuel for it is cake. The msr fuel fits it but won't fit inside of it.
has anybody used a frybake pan with a jet...
has anybody used a frybake pan with a jet boil stove?
you need the pan kit to be able to set the pan on it but it will work
The flash personal cooking system includes the pot kit.
I haven't used a fry-bake pan on it but you'll probably need to turn the heat way down (lids and low temp are the best).
The jetboil is probably closer to a torch than a stove. It is a directly aplied flame. So you don't want it to heat through the pan before it warms and then heats it. This isn't the experiment you want to do in the field with your food. Try it at home on a few thing to figure out how not to burn it, seems to be the number one problem. Also if you're using a pot stir very frequently.
What are the main differences between the...
What are the main differences between the Jetboil Flash and the Jetboil Sol?
The Flash has a 1 liter cup the Sol a .8 liter cup. The Sol system weighs 10.5 ounces while the Flash is 14 ounces. The dimensions of the Sol are 4.1" x 6.5" while the Flash is 4.1" x 7.1". The Sol system has the Jetboil Thermoregulator while the Flash does not.
here's the side by side comparison from Jetboil-
Does the Jetboil Flash Personal Cooking...
Does the Jetboil Flash Personal Cooking System include the pot stabilizer? (I see 2 pictures of it which leads me to assume it's included, but I have doubts)
All of this years Flash come complete with pot support and stabilizer in them no need to buy another .
Can't decide whether to get the MSR Reactor,...
Can't decide whether to get the MSR Reactor, Primus EtaPower or this, please help!
Stove being used between two people, mainly for boiling water to cook dehydrated foods and making powdered drinks.
All great stoves. Based on your needs, take the Primus off the table- it's more than just a water boiler, and of the three, it's got the best ability to actually do some cooking in. It's also the heaviest system of the three, but it does also burn multiple fuel types besides just canister fuel. I own one, and have been nothing but impressed, but again, it's one of my "real food" stoves for when weight isn't so much of an issue. The Flash will suit your needs perfectly for hot drinks and boiling water, but it's still basically a personal cooking system. The 1L cup will only boil about 1/2L of water at a time- too little for two people without another companion cup, and requiring several rounds of boiling to serve you both. If you want a Jetboil system that's more suited to preparing two meals and two hot drinks at once, have a look at the Jetboil GCS with the 1.5L pot. The Reactor is a water boiling classic. They don't call it the Reactor for nothing. Higher altitudes, colder climates, fast boil time, a little better ability to actually cook in than the Flash, 1.7L pot that will give the two of you plenty of water for all your needs with just one round. So, of the three, I would go with the Reactor, but then also weigh it against the Jetboil GCS. Hope that helps.
Based on the info about mostly being used for dehydrated foods and powdered drinks, I think the JBoil would suit your needs fine. the only run-in you might find is that there are two of you, so there might be some waiting. But I've found that the JBoil beats almost any other stove in boil time, so the waiting might be alleviated. The JBoil is more compact, so another plus. But definetley try to compare them all side by side if possible so you can see for your self. Happy Trails!
What is the main difference between the...
What is the main difference between the jetboil flash and the jetboil sol
Looks like the Flash weighs 14oz (1 liter water cup) and the Sol weighs 11.5oz (.8 liter water cup). The Sol has Jetboil Thermo-Regulate technology, which allows it to function in lower temps... the Flash doesn't. Thats the only difference... The Sol is lighter/smaller and works better in lower temps... Is this worth the extra money? You decide... I personally like standard butane stoves as I am not as limited to only boiling water like with these systems...
does it come with the gas canister?
does it come with the gas canister?
The fuel canister is sold separately.
And you're better off trying to find the gas canisters locally if possible. Since compressed gas canisters are considered a hazardous material, they can only be shipped by ground transportation, and they really nail you for shipping and/or special haz-mat fees that drives the price up substantially for just a few at a time.


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Boot Barn Item #: 2000843
Color: Click a button belowcolor
size: Click a button below Size Chartsize
Style(s): 13BGSHD
- 100% Cotton
- 5 pocket styling
- Classic Wrangler "W" on the back pockets
- Rivet trim
- Cowboy cut
- 15.25 oz denim
- Sizes 8-16
- For sizes 1-7 please see style # 13JGSHD
Inspired by the King of Country Music these Boys George Strait jeans are great for your little Cowboy. Whether they are riding, going to school or running around the ranch your little one will be in style and comfort in these jeans. The 100% cotton is durable comfortable and easy to care for.
Style(s): 13BGSHD
Lifestyle: Western
Material: Cotton
Product Weight: 1 lbs
Closure: Zipper
Print With more than 60 years of heritage, the Wrangler® Western brand has established itself as the great American jeans lifestyle brand that was born in the spirit of the West and the great outdoors. Starting with the original Wrangler Cowboy Cut® 13MWZ - the jean "made for cowboys by cowboys," and the same jean originally made in 1947 - the brand has become synonymous with the Western way of life. Wrangler Western Wear remains true to the brand's Western roots thriving on the cowboy aesthetic and the preservation of the American legacy while still offering new, style-savvy categories. The brand's latest lines include the Premium Performance Cowboy Cut® jean, an update to the original 13MWZ with added comfort and durability but the same classic style; Rock 47™ by Wrangler®, a contemporary and funky line of Western wear for women; Wrangler® Retro, a line of fresh, cutting-edge Western jeans endorsed by alternative country artist Jason Aldean; Wrangler® National Patriot™, a line of red, white and blue shirts and accessories raising money for wounded or fallen military veterans and their families; and Wrangler® -The Ultimate Riding Jean® offering women fit and function, in and out of the saddle.


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Fans hope John Coltrane home can become NY museum
DIX HILLS, N.Y. — Carlos Santana and other musicians are backing an effort to pay tribute to jazz legend John Coltrane by turning his suburban New York home into a museum.
Coltrane lived in Dix Hills, Long Island, for several years until his death in 1967. The jazz saxophonist wrote the masterpiece "A Love Supreme" in an upstairs bedroom.
Now volunteers are trying to raise money to renovate the dilapidated four-bedroom brick ranch. They want to create a museum and learning center.
Santana, Coltrane's son Ravi Coltrane and others attended a fundraiser for the Coltrane House project last month in New York City.
The National Trust for Historic Preservation has named the house one of America's 11 Most Endangered Historic Places.


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The second annual GSP Christmas Concert Series will begin in the GSP International Airport terminal on December 5th to celebrate the holiday season.
GSP welcomes various musical groups from around the Upstate to the terminal's baggage claim area to bring in the holiday season. The series is set to kick-off on December 5th at 3:00pm with the Bob Jones Academy hand bell ensemble.
This series is free and open to the public, and all are encouraged to visit the GSP campus to enjoy holiday selections from area groups.
December 5 Bob Jones Academy Hand Bells 3-4pm
December 9 St. Mark United Methodist Choir 3-4pm
December 12 Beck Middle School Orchestra 1:30-2:30pm
December 15 Suzuki Association of SC 10-11am
December 18 Riverside Middle School Ensemble 10-11am