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Microsoft BUILD: Windows 8, A Pre-Beta Previewby Brian Klug & Ryan Smith on 9/13/2011 12:05 PM EST
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martin5000 - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkI'm try to like metro, but I can't. I just hate it. Reply
futurepastnow - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkSadly, I agree. I hate this. I look at the Metro tiles, and imagine them on my 24" non-touchscreen desktop display, and it makes me sick to imagine using my computer that way. People described the more colorful Windows XP theme as "Fisher Price" when it was new, but this really is like a computer for toddlers.
I like almost everything I've read about Windows 8- the new file copy window, the technical improvements. But I want the desktop and only the desktop. If I can't disable Metro- and I mean 100% never-have-to-see-it disabled- then I'm not using this on a desktop or laptop PC. It makes sense on tablets. Nowhere else. Reply
crispbp04 - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkLive tiles are 1000x more useful than static windows 3.1 style icons. You're resisting progression. And as stated below it's just a shell. Microsoft always supports those who resist change, hence being able to upgrade from windows 1.0 through windows 7 and run the same 25 year old applications. You'll love and embrace windows 8. Reply
Ratman6161 - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkIf you multitask heavily (I currently have 13 different windows open) those tiles are going to spend the entire day hidden behind other windows aren't they? I don't even bother with background images on my system since I rarely see my desktop anyway.
I think the task bar at the bottom of the screen showing all my open applications is far more useful than having to go back to the desktop for things.
In the past, Microsoft came under a lot of fire on mobile devices because people said they were trying to cram a desktop interface into a phone or PDA. Now they are making the same mistake in reverse - trying to make a desktop look like a phone.
I'm with futurepastnow - this will simply not work for me for the work that I do. Reply
Alexvrb - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkThen don't use it. Windows 8 still has Explorer. Turn Metro off. Reply
DeciusStrabo - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkThat's just it. You can't. It's starts Metro, and Metro in turn is your Start Menu and Launcher. Metro _is_ the Explorer. Literally. Metro resides in explorer.exe.
I love the Metro UI. For mobile devices. For a desktop? It's more harm than use. Reply
piiman - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkAccording to MS you can turn it off. Reply
BenDTU - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkAt least in the developer preview you can't. There's no option to do so. Metro is your start menu. Reply
Wraith404 - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkTo Disable the wretched Metro failure, I mean feature:
run regedit from the developer command prompt.
set the key RPEnabled to 0 Reply
LoneWolf15 - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkTHANK YOU.
(I never use all caps, but this time, emphasis was necessary) Reply
kevith - Friday, September 16, 2011 - linkRead the review, man Reply
augiem - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkI agree. This is an experiment... and one that is doomed to failure. Designers tend to be people of extremes and always push for "change" simply for change's sake. (Because it makes them look good, as if they're thinking outside the box. Contrast is easy to spot.) This is a knee-jerk reaction to the success of iOS. No power user or even business user will accept this because plain and simply it's a huge speedbump to productivity. iOS was so successful because it was targeted at an audience that was only interested in consumption, and even limited consumption at that. Desktops more often than not NOT used in a consumtive manner. (This of all the people sitting at work typing stuff into spreadsheets and running CSR software). This will not fly. It's an attempt to look "modern" by simplifying things for the unwashed masses, but it ain't gonna work. They're going to have to split windows into yet another branch, this time for consumption devices like tablets and media center PC's. This is a joke (and not a funny one) to any power user. Live titles??? Give me a break. Like I said, it's for consumption boxes. Who needs live titles to do your video editing / word processing / data crunching / etc job? Reply
futurepastnow - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkAre we, as a society, so stupid and juvenile that we need big colorful buttons for everything? When you use this with a mouse and keyboard, not a touch tablet, you're going to feel stupid.
Look! It's a button that's four inches across! I hope I don't miss it with the mouse cursor! *click* Oh, good, I got it. Boy, those little icons Windows 7 had sure were hard to click on.
And I am deeply concerned about my ability to turn this Metro s**t all the way off. Microsoft has stated that you won't be able to use Windows 8 without Metro. Folks saying "just turn it off" don't seem to get it- the Start Menu is *gone* in Windows 8 and this garbage has replaced it. Metro is the shell; it can't be turned off, yet. I think it's probable that MS will backtrack off its idiotic stance of forcing Metro on us, but they may not.
You think people want live icons? Remember the Sidebar? Neither do I. Nobody uses the Dashboard on OSX, either. Reply
BioTurboNick - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkThe point is that they aren't just buttons, they are ways to see what is contained within the button or display information. I honestly don't get what's wrong. How often do you keep the start menu open? If everything you do is on the desktop, you'll barely ever see it. Reply
UMADBRO - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkI know I rarely ever open mine. I have all the commonly used programs and links pinned to my taskbar. People are gonna piss and moan no matter what. Just ignore them. Reply
futurepastnow - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkI don't leave the start menu open. That isn't the point. The point is that the start menu is not fullscreen.
All of this Metro crap is fullscreen and it's so integrated into the OS that it can't all be turned off. It's silly fluff for touchscreens, and why should it cover up everything else I'm doing, every other window I have open, whenever the OS decides it needs to go fullscreen?
Fullscreen applications are not progress. They are, in fact, anti-progress, and just because Apple is doing it is no excuse. The olny things that should ever be fullscreen are movies and games and sometimes not even them.
This is not progress. Reply
Ratman6161 - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkAs I have said elsewhere, my desktop is always hidden behind the many application windows I have open at any given time. Whatever information the buttons are displaying is irrelevant to me since I will rarely if ever see it. Reply
futurepastnow - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkThe big colorful buttons aren't going to be underneath all of your open windows. They're not on the desktop at the bottom. They''re going to be ON TOP OF your open windows any time you do anything that invokes the Metro interface- which will be often. Reply
Wraith404 - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkNot if you turn the garbage off. I feel for developers that waste time creating metro applications for anything but tablets. It's going to be hard disabled on 90% of desktops. Reply
futurepastnow - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkI'm not sure the average computer mom and pop computer user is going to be proficient enough to turn it off. They're just going to be angry about it, the way they were angry about Vista's aggressive UAC.
Not good for Microsoft. Reply
DeciusStrabo - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkYes, they function as widgets too. But compared to real widgets they are a very poor tool indeed. Limited in size, limited in what they can show. WP7 has the same problem for me: Even simple widgets in Android or Bada or Symbian blow them out of the water. The Calendar Live Tile shows only one appointment! Reply
ilkhan - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkI have 11 different apps pinned to my 7 taskbar, all but one of them have at least 1 window open (several have 3, the closed one is JUST a jumplist launcher). Doing anything to hide that (as an example, requiring a fullscreen IE experience) is incredibly STUPID of microsoft. Long live Vista2. Reply
BioTurboNick - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkInternet Explorer has both a Metro mode and a normal windowed mode. Reply
rdamiani - Thursday, September 22, 2011 - linkWhat is wrong is:
- Opening a new program replaces the existing screen with a new one full of live data that will want to refresh
- Developers, sure in the certain belief that their program is the best in the world, will add tiles full of live data (that needs to be refreshed) that relate to their wonderfulness.
- The poor state of PC screen resolution - already dumbed down to a long and skinny VGA-class ribbon - won't allow you to have more than a few of these live-data tiles (needing to be refreshed) at a time.
- Everyone's computer will look different with stuff in all kinds of different places. Which will make tech support way more challenging than it already is.
Microsoft keeps learning the wrong lessons from the competition. Just because Apple ported springboard to Lion (as an application you don't need to use) doesn't mean that Microsoft needs to put springboard-on-crack front-and-center in Windows 8. Reply
UMADBRO - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkJust give it a damn chance before you hate all over it. I bet you were one of the whiners that complained about the changes that were made to Windows 7, and Vista before it, and XP before that, etc etc. FFS, If everything stayed the same, no one would have a damn reason to upgrade. And their is your other potential solution. Stick with Win 7 if you already hate 8 so much and are unwilling to give it a chance. Problem solved! Reply
futurepastnow - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkI have every intention of trying out the public betas and "giving it a chance," but I'm not going to be passively fed what Microsoft thinks people want. I'm going to make it clear what I want, even if they never read these comments.
And what I want is to never, ever, ever, see anything that uses Metro on a desktop computer. In the builds so far, it can't be turned off. Reply
piiman - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - link"I'm going to make it clear what I want, even if they never read these comments.:
Then you're just making noise. Go tell MS, don't post it somewhere they will never see it. Reply
Wraith404 - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkHKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer
set the key RPEnabled to 0 Reply
crispbp04 - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkIt has nothing to do with being stupid or juvenile. It's about understanding the way a NORMAL person uses their computer.
Yeah, we all get it... you think you're a big technoweenie because you require a high resolution with tiny fonts so you can cram more information per square inch than at least 10 ''normal" users. You like over-complicated menus and 100 different ways to accomplish the same task because it makes you feel special when you can whiz bang all over your operating system while someone is watching. I'm not sure why you're complaining about full screen applications anyway(in post below)... The market already decided where things should be and you're looking at it
The reality is, you're clueless. You need to change your name to just "past"... since your ideology is stuck there. You resist change, you call progression "garbage". A true power user cares more about performance and usability. We use keyboard shortcuts for nearly everything. When other people see us interact with a windows operating system, they are always blown away. (Hit start key type two letters OMG the right application/doc/email/etc opens).. "how'd you do that!?"... MUST BE MAGIC!? No.. it's called progressing with the operating system. Most people who read this don't even know their start menu can do this. (which is the ONLY sad part of windows, most users still interact with it like it's windows 95)
If you've used a windows phone 7 you know that metro is BY FAR the best setup for a desktop interface. It's proven itself in the phone form factor and will now become the defacto standard for a tablet. You can quote me on this in 2013. If you're a desktop fanatic I'm absolutely confident that microsoft will get it just right this time around. Quote me on that also. Reply
jbaumann - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - link"It's proven itself in the PHONE form factor and will now become the defacto standard for a TABLET."
quoted for emphasis
I cannot see how it should be a big improvement for anybody who is working at a desktop PC (i.e. no touchscreen, remember the gorilla arm), with a mouse and a keyboard. Reply
theangryintern - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - link"It's proven itself in the phone form factor"
Yeah, cuz WP7 phones are just flying off the shelves. /sarcasm (in case you couldn't tell) Reply
Shadowmaster625 - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkI like big buttons, I cannot lie. I have big icons I my desktop so as to facilitate remote usage. Reply
augiem - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkTell them what you think with your wallet. Pull a Vista on them. Do not buy Windows 8. Simple as that. Win 7 will be supported for probably 10 years. I for one am not going to screw productivity by installing this. When MS's revenues fall through the floor, they'll get the message.
This is NOT the future of computing. As much as we'd all love to have Star Trek's computer where it just does everything for you, that's never going to happen. Reply
jvillaro - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkYou are as a consumer, in your right to just not buy it or use it. And MS is in their right to offer new things, change things up, take a risk and either fail or succeed.
Garbage, idiotic, etc are your opinions... which many of us could think of you. That's the way it goes, maybe you could wait till it's released to make a real judgement. Reply
Gimfred - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - link
Live tiles are 1000x more useful than static windows 3.1 style icons
Why do the icons have to stay static? Like the look but think it will get in my way or my way will get in its way. If there are animated [informative] icons now, no reason they can't be improved on. Reply
taltamir - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkYou are confusing windows and linux.
Windows has near 0 backwards compatibility. If you want to run an app or game that was made for windows 95, 98, or 2k you need to run it in linux under Wine because windows 7 will fail to run it.
@Metro: I hate it, its horrible. It looks neat on a tablet but how am I supposed to use it with a mouse and keyboard on my desktop or laptop? Reply
mlambert890 - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkThis post has to either be a joke or you are incredibly out of touch.
Windows has 0 backwards compat? I run *DOS* apps in Windows 7. WTF are you talking about?
And if you didnt notice, Windows 7 has "XP compat" mode. A free instance of XP to run in a VM on a free desktop type 2 hypervisor.
Did you miss the compatibility tab and the "Run as ...." option that goes all the way back to W95?
Show me the app you can get to run in WINE that someone competent cant get to run under Windows. Maybe you ran into some outlier case, but thats like the guy who smokes 10 packs a day and lives until 90. Idiotic to try to pretend its the rule.
MSFT has suffered *mightily* for backwards compat unlike Apple and, yes, mighty Linux also. There are *plenty* of stranded apps that require recoding to work with newer libraries and newer kernel revs on Linux. Reply
Wraith404 - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkHow much time do you spend looking at your desktop? I do actual work, so I see mine about once a week. Live tiles are a gimmick derived from Android widgets, and are pretty much only useful on a fondleslab, and even then the usefulness is limited. Reply
damianrobertjones - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkI'm used to using Windows Media Center so it won't be much of a change for me and as for that Fisher price thing.... People are BUYING ipads so you can see where everything is heading! Reply
fcx56 - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkExactly, I'm surprised no one has seen this coming. This interface began in 2005 with XP Media Centre Edition and with subsequent updates through Vista and 7, all they had to add were the tiles implemented in WP7 and here we are, a tablet interface to accompany ARM support. Reply
dagamer34 - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkIf you don't like the Metro UI, no one is forcing you to use it. Reply
jeremyshaw - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkyeah, seriously. MS isn't making Metro UI for desktops, just tablets and users who want it... Reply
futurepastnow - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkYes, they are. The Explorer shell is gone and Metro has replaced it completely. In these early builds, at least, Metro cannot be turned off and you cannot boot to the desktop. Reply
dragonsqrrl - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkYes, in these early builds that may be the case, but Microsoft has stated publicly on multiple occasions that the metro UI will be optional on desktops. You can use it in combo with the traditional explorer interface (similar to the demo), or disable it entirely. Reply
UMADBRO - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkHe just wants to go around crying because he might have to learn something new. I think a complete redesign like this is needed. Windows was getting rather boring, even with some of the new stuff added in 7. Give it a chance at least. Im sure for all the old fogeys that have an aneurysm at the thought of anything changing, there will be some classic options. And also on note, ITS A PRE-BETA DEVELOPER RELEASE. NOTHING IS FINAL YET! SO CALM THE F&*$ DOWN! Reply
loll123 - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkAnd you seriously think that Windows is made primarily for people like you? The corporate customers (the ones that are Microsoft's bread and butter) who resisted upgrading from Windows XP up until this day aren't going to accept change like this just because Microsoft says it's the way forward. They are going to have backtrack and redesign just like they did with Vista -> 7, unless the board of directors decide to clean up this mess and rein the design in before final release (as seems to be business as usual at Microsoft). Reply
BioTurboNick - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkYou seem to be suggesting that 7 was a backtrack on Vista. That is far from the case. Reply
mlambert890 - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - link+1... in addition, corporations are refreshing more and more slowly and are more and more out of sync with consumers. This is to the extreme detriment of IT as consumerization is a real trend. IT is reaching an "adapt or die" point in time and it is almost certain the latter will happen. Eventually businesses will simply allow the 'bring your own' model and contract services to provide capability.
These are well known and understood industry trends and are real to anyone who *actually* works in the industry. The only folks who don't 'get it' are IT cube workers in denial or kids posting on blogs who think they understand the industry by reading comment threads.
This is actually a big problem for Microsoft because consumers are becoming a bigger force, but they are failing against Apple to capture enthusiasm with new consumers because legacy IT people, and out dated Windows users, want to keep the product stagnating.
Lost interest on the consumer side coupled with absolute inertia on the IT side is a killer for MSFT. They have to try to do something. Maybe Metro isnt it, but the nay-sayers on this thread have zero clue and are irrelevant.
The massive success of Apple has been absolute proof that consumers want a commoditized experience and the increasing presence of macbooks and ipads (guerilla style) in even *large* enterprises is proof that business is more than happy to pass the end user technology burden *onto* users.
If someone is willing to BUY and SUPPORT their OWN MacBook and ipad, why NOT let them if you are the CFO? All you need to do is ensure that your corporate apps are all presented via browser and/or managed service and enterprises are fast moving to make that happen.
It is do or die time for MSFT. if they listen to the eternal bitching and moaning of forum malcontents, they'll end up dying. Reply
loll123 - Friday, September 16, 2011 - linkPeople like you say all this while Microsoft are enjoying record sales with Windows 7 (and record profits as a company as a result), and while no one can show any numbers that tablets other than those made by Apple are actually selling. In the end, although it might take the intervention of shareholders or the BoD, I think Microsoft will know better than to throw out their existing (and extremely profitable) business for what is increasingly looking like a new IT bubble. Reply
loll123 - Friday, September 16, 2011 - linkI understand your point, but a backtrack is exactly what it was. Windows 7 took all the good stuff from Vista like UAC, aggressive disk caching and the re-designed audio kernel and put them in a system with more mature drivers, important tweaks and with a smoothness and a UI that users actually liked rather than reviled. They responded to the criticisms of Vista and the result was an excellent operating system. It's no coincidence that Windows Vista failed miserably whereas Windows 7 was a huge success, but the difference was definitely in the finer details and in the user experience. Eventually Microsoft are going to have to bow to customer pressures in the case of Windows 8 as well. Reply
yankeeDDL - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkI perfectly agree.
Like with the security features of Vista, and with the Ribbon in Office, MS choose their way and are moving forward, thinking that they know what's best for you, despite having been proved wrong times and times again.
From their dominant position, they can still afford it.
Now they're pushing for the Metro UI, something interesting, but hardly revolutioning, like IOS and Android have been, an UI that will disappear from Samsung in 2012, because of its abysmal adoption.
PCs is the last stronghold of Windows: it disappeared from TVs, cars, mobiles: maybe it's about time they follow suit. Reply
mlambert890 - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkYour own arguments prove you are completely wrong except possibly in your own mind.
The security features of Vista evolved into the security features of W7 and are the same security features in OSX and Linux. On an extreme niche of curmudgeons that fancy themselves "super power users" bitch about dual privelege levels and access control gates within the OS.
Same with the ribbon. I was on the front lines of the most prepostrous bitching and moaning and DOOM calling over the ribbon. Today it is universally regarded as a good change or at the very least a neutral one.
One thing for sure thoug is that even folks who self describe as "technophiles" and truly believe they are cutting edge will act like 90 year olds whose drug store has moved as soon as *anything* changes. Sad really. Reply
robinthakur - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkI agree, but that isn't when you would be using Metro is it? It's for touch devices, although I don't understand how they are going to get it to work with legacy apps in the slightest. You need special versions of Excel, Word etc, build from the ground up for touch as Apple has done with Pages, Numbers, iMovie et al or it's just going to be a flashy acelerated interface which lacks full functionality and this guarantees that end users will hate it.
This seems similar to how on an HTPC, to play a Blu-ray, you need to launch a 3rd party player which has a different look and feel and you need to break out the keyboard to control it. Awful, and so counter intuitive to users.
On the other hand, the fact that MS is involving developers at this stage, hopefully means that it's own first party products like Office/SharePoint etc. will work properly with it. They are doing alot right with Win 8, but seems like they are constantly playing catchup to Apple these days. Reply
realmike15 - Sunday, September 18, 2011 - linkI think you're over simplifying the issue. Computing for toddlers? Last I checked toddlers aren't checking their stocks, the weather, rss feeds, and news. The simplified UI design is a good starting point, it makes navigating the computer interface easier those who find previous Windows releases daunting. Most old school techies aren't going to embrace this, but that's not because of poor design... it's because they're stuck in their ways. The old desktop system is clunky and archaic for everyday browsing. By no means is this a replacement for gaming, or other industries that require the tried and true keyboard/mouse setup. But that's why there's still a standard desktop.
This IS a step in the right direction though, I have any delusions about this implementation being perfect. It will probably take many more versions of Windows to get this transition right, but it's a starting point. A starting point that your mother, grandmother, and all your non-tech savy friends will appreciate. Reply
Belard - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkWait till it comes out on beta...
Its still rough. I'll admit, I don't think of METRO much for a desktop and mouse... Why would I want to scroll through pages to get to some APPS when I can click on it from my task bar? But there is most likely something like that anyways. So think of Metro's arrangement switched around a bit to the side - which makes better use of todays STUPID 16:9 screens.
Look at Mac and Amiga - their "MENU" is at the top - MS has been at the bottom since Win95. Now its being shoved to the side
I bet MS has been studying user behavior quite a bit. And much of my work space is on the left side of the screen... tools on the right.
This is also perhaps the ONLY way MS has a chance to take on Apple's iOS and that MAKES perfect sense. It can improve future versions of MS-OS...
Windows7 tablets suck. WP7 is not made for tablets and is struggling to get market share. An MS-Tablet today will most likely go down in flames like WebOS, RIM and whatever... Android is not doing well against iPads.
But... MS commands about 90% of the world market in PCs. (about 75% in the USA in new sales). So... imagine the new Win8 desktops that come out, people have to get, there won't be Vista or Win7 to fall back on... ALL Metro apps are going to work on ARM based CPUs. (intel cannot be thrilled on this) This means those apps are going to be smaller than normal Win32 bloatware.
Now out comes the Win8 tablets and phones... in both types.
Win8 = tablet... high end, can run desktop software... faster CPUs $$$
Win8Mobile = Phones and tablets, they won't run legacy software (current game we see on desktops, Office 2010, etc) - but they'll RUN any Metro application and game.
Microsoft ends up creating the eco-system that can go against Apple... this is something RIM or Android cannot DO. They don't own the desktop business.
This is a brilliant move from MS, mark my words.
In the end 2012, I bet iPads will still own at least 70% of the tablet business.
By 2014, MS could flip it having 50~60% of the sales.
The iPad will always be called iPads... and MS-Tablets will always be called, Tablet like Android and Blackberry. They will always be the SODA to Apple's Coke. What matters for the next year or so before Win8 launch is how much more Apple can sell iPads. They'll be launching a new iPad 4 just after Win8 hits the market. If Apple can sell 50+ million units a year - they'll do well against Win8 up to a point.
Hopefully, MS will only have 3 versions PERIOD of Win8, all 64bit.
Win8 starter/ARM
Win8 Home
Win8 Pro (with Ultimate features built in)
If it goes well... then by the time Win10 comes out (7 years from now), the Win32 API an gone as well as any legacy 16bit, 32bit code...
We'll check in then... :) Reply
Gimfred - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkThe problem with (not that it shouldn't be looked at) looking at user behaviour is it is studying how users work around the current limitations of a UI rather than the task that is intended to be achieved. Unfortunately Microsoft seems to have this idea that using a computer is the task.
For tablets, they should implement and refine OneNote. That is awesome software. Reply
robinthakur - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkNo, you're looking at it wrong. MS is currently in a dominant position worldwide with Windows, especially in business, but things are changing. Apple phones are being issued in many companies an many executives, because they use iPad's and Macbook Airs are introducing them into business, and saying "Just make it work" I have seen this innumerable times in the past 3 years. For my last firm, an investment bank, the whole website had to be scrapped and redesigned close to launch because a senior exec noticed that it didn't render properly on her iPad.
At the same time, the desktop business is under pressure like never before. Companies are scaling back the amount of power and flexibility that they are giving to individual employees. We use thin clients extensively running MS Terminal Serverfor virtually all employees. Those that want them are issued with company iPads instead and seem very happy with them, running a propriatery app which we designed here and the standard iPad functionality.
All we used to hear were constant complaints about Windows from staff, and just because us, as techies, can divine how to use it doesn't mean that regular people will. They seem to prefer the iPads because they instinctively know how to use it. Training needs have gone from all encompassing to pretty non-existant apart from SharePoint (which I love) so cutting down functionality is actually not a bad idea if it's functionality which people rarely use.
About the only reason to own a powerful desktop these days is if you are a power user/developer, you are a techie and like to play/brag or you play games (the latter being a nearly non-existant demographic these days) with the rest buying laptops/iPads, and I can only see that becoming more pronounced in the future. Reply
piiman - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkThe fact that you think the the iPad is taking over business is simply laughable.
If some exec is forcing it on a company because they personally use it then it should be grounds for firing them. Reply
mlambert890 - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkWhats laughable is that you dont realize he is correct yet feel so confident making absolute statements like this.
Your personal bias and/or emotions dont change the fact that what he is saying is absolutely correct.
I dont care one way or the other what the client solution of choice is for my customers, but I can tell you now the shift is *massive* towards iPads in particular, to a lesser extent phones, and even Android tablets. Reply
nitenichiryu1 - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkAt 8:18, he says that Windows 8 will be both METRO and TRADITIONAL desktop. Yay =D Reply
UMADBRO - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkThankfully, I dont agree. Im actually going to give it a shot before I completely make up my mind about it. Maybe you should too. Reply
martin5000 - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkI said I trying to like it, i.e. I haven't finished concluding my opinion of it. The problem is that every detail of metro I've seen so far is very disappointing. Reply
cfaalm - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkI don't hate it. IIt just hasn't sunk into mee how this will be usefull for a deskttop, especially with professional applications that mostly require the whole screen, and want to run without much else going on. We need to know if we can tone it down and shut some of that stuff off. Reply
SteelCity1981 - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkThis will be Vista 2.0. i'll be waiting for Windows 9.
The ribbon menu is dumb if people didn't like it in office 2007 people aren't going to like it on their Windows!
The start menu is dumb. Why make the change to using a metro start menu when the regular one in Windows 7 worked perfectly fine.
Metro UI is really dumb. I want an actual desktop not something with a bunch of tiles all over the place as my main screen. Reply
Ahmed0 - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkI actually got used to the ribbon in Office 2007. However, the problem lies in that the ribbon needs to be well executed for it to be useful. And to my frustration there are some programs that fail at it (like AutoCAD). After I install a program I shouldnt have to start customizing EVERYTHING just to be productive.
Sadly, change doesnt necessarily mean progress. Its certainly not very wise to take one step forward in one area but two steps back in all the other areas.
With that said, Im not going to criticize W8 before I try it myself. Reply
LoneWolf15 - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkI am trying it in a VM. And I'm hating it too.
The thing that makes it perfect for smartphones and tablets (limited screen space, or lack of a keyboard) makes it crap on the desktop, at least so far.
I have a strong suspicion that MS will make it optional (turn on/off) in the final version. It's probably great for people who have a net-top with a touchscreen, but for a power-user, it just dumbs down the Windows interface to a point where it's inflexible, perhaps more difficult to use. Reply
lurker22 - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkHere's the deal. MS by changing the UI so dramatically in an attempt to keep the consumer market is going to now threaten its corporate customers. Fact is corporations use an OS to run applications, new UI means the corporation gets to re-train people. If you have to re-train people it's often not worth the expense, and it also opens the door to the question of "If we have to re-train everyone, do we really need to stay with Windows?"
MS is damned either way I guess. Reply
quiksilvr - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkWho says this will EVER be in Windows Server? And you can disable Metro UI. You don't HAVE to use it. Reply
Ryan Smith - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkFrom MS: "Metro is the Windows shell [...] from the smallest tablet to the server". Reply
quiksilvr - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkThen their server team is just lazy. Why would you want this on your server? It makes no sense. The Windows 8 interface, yes, but that Metro UI skin? Hell to the no. It's like Themes and Desktop Backgrounds for Windows Server 2008, it makes no sense not to have it. Just a waste of space. Reply
quiksilvr - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkIt makes no sense TO* have it Reply
Guspaz - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkWell, you can hit Win+D and get the traditional Windows UI... And that illusion of the familiar will last right up until you try to use the start menu to launch something, and get dumped back into Metro. It looks like there's no escaping it.
My work machine has two 1280x1024 monitors. 23-point text on these things is going to be enormously huge, it's silly... Reply
alent1234 - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkbecause most servers have very few applications on them and it's dumb to hide them in the start menu. with the annoying mouse control of KVM switches this may make things a lot easier by using the wasted desktop space Reply
HMTK - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkI'm pretty sure they'll include it as a Feature on Windows 8 Server for one very good reason: RDS/Citrix. Reply
damianrobertjones - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkThe users in work will absolutely LOVE this as they prefer things to be EASY TO USE Reply
Ratman6161 - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkAt work, for our end users, it is all about the 2 or 3 business applications they use. Go from XP=>Vista=>7=>8 and those couple of apps have not changed. What is so hard about clicking the icon to start the program that they need a big box on their desktop to click on instead of the old style icon. What is to be gained? How is this more EASY TO USE for this group of people? Reply
UMADBRO - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkHow is it not? Reply
Wraith404 - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkUsers at work won't ever see it, any self respecting system administrator will disable this Metro garbage in group policies. Reply
robinthakur - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkAgreed, Windows 7 phone could have been a contender, but everyone MS shopped it to at my old work (who already had iPhones) said it looked far too consumery and passed on the purchase. This is ironic because it integrated perfectly with our SharePoint architecture. They need to have a more corporate version...although I greatly suspect that it's too litle too late. Reply
cldudley - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkThey all have iPhones, and THIS is too consumer-y? Reply
martin5000 - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - link"Microsoft would like developers writing applications in runtime or interpreted languages such as C#, VB, HTML5/CSS/JavaScript, and even Silverlight"
Silverlight is not a language, its essentially just .NET for WP7 (and confusingly for web applications) its language is c#.
Also, I think the author needs to look up WPF, this technology is already a complete replacement for the old style win32/winforms development. I imagine the new technologies will be related to WPF. Reply
DEEPAYAN - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkvery original, very ugly. never saw such a bad user .not all people use tablet ms. Reply
damianrobertjones - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkVery easy to use, attractive to the non-techies, nearly everyone will eventually use a tablet. Reply
robinthakur - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkIs it attractive though? It looks like a very festive powerpoint presentation...The main reasons that people stick with Windows, against all odds, is compatibility and familiarity. This blows away the latter. You saw how well they all took to Windows 7 Phone. Besides which, tere is always the danger that companies will skip Windows 8 en masse as they did with Vista, and that will almost force MS to reduce the amount of influence and interaction afforded to Metro in Windows 9/10. Reply
iwodo - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkI like Metro as a concept, or idea. But i have problem with Microsoft's implementation of Metro. It is, very Linux like. Apart from the Color i can tell it is from M$, almost all things else are like KDE / Gnome.
Ribbon is a mess. Yes it exposes Far more options to the users. Yes it places the statistically most used function on top. Yes it is, may be easier to use.
But I am sorry. It is ugly.
I just wish, Microsoft could have a single switch that will make Windows 8 and Office 2010 all in collapsed mode Automatically. Reply
mabellon - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - link"single switch that will make Windows 8 and Office 2010 all in collapsed mode Automatically."
This already exists in Windows 7 and Office 2010. It's been around for years. You can minimize the ribbon in two easy ways.
1) Double click the top of the ribbon
2) Right click the top of the ribbon, select 'Minimize the Ribbon"
Hope this helps,
Mark Reply
cjb110 - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkI really don't have anything against Metro, and I think Microsoft have to do something drastic to the Windows UI to make it scale from desktops to tablets. And Metro could be it.
However my problem is that if its currently half and half (like you mention the other settings loads normal control panel) then I don't think that's an going to be a good UIX, in fact I think it'll be damn jarring and piss people of more than it should.
The OS, and control thereof needs to be fully Metro'ised, (or at least fit seamlessly in, it doesn't look like Vista/Win7 borders on task manager or explorer really fit).
Basically if MS don't do that, say for control panel, they are basically admitting Metro isn't a comprehensive enough UI design.
If MS state at some point, yes Win8 is half and half, and Win9 will complete the transition then fine, its the same place Apple is in with Lion I think (transitioning from an open desktop to a locked device) Reply
dagamer34 - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkThe Control Panel has a Metro UI (you can see it several times in the demo). In fact, unless you need to open a specific app or do file management, you never have to see the desktop if you don't want to. And with the way apps are setup, I doubt you'll really care where the file is stored, as long as you're able to access it through search and it's backed up safely.
Will the desktop disappear? No. But for a good chunk of what people use their computers for (e-mail and web surfing), it's not really that important. And getting away from traditional file management will be a BIG step forward to the future. Reply
faizoff - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkI can't wait to load the beta release whenever it comes out. Looks very intriguing from just glancing at it.
Would love to start playing with this OS. Reply
cjs150 - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkand not succeeding.
For a smart phone or tablet I can see the point although looks clunky to me.
For a desktop just awful.
The concept of yet more "ribbons" appearing is even worse. MS idea of context (especially in Word) is clearly not related to any work I or anyone I know does. Mind you I still think that Word is a much worse word processor for proper business than Wordperfect 5.1 which is only 20 years old Reply
cldudley - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkI see these arguments all the time about the application that use the ribbon-based UI, but I don't really see the problem... The most common features are located obviously and are easy to find, what are you using that is inconvenient? Mail-merge maybe, or something less obvious?
I put together plenty of spreadsheets and documents using Excel/Word 2010, and I have used AutoCAD 2011 pretty extensively too, and I have no problem with the ribbon.
Maybe I am not doing the tasks you are doing, I write software for specialized controllers, produce drawings and layouts for industrial electrical control equipment, plus write documentation, memos, various tables and schedules, etc. At home I write letters, do the budget, different types of software development, game, etc, and I do not have any of these complaints.
I think the reality for 99.9999% of people is just the curmudgeon factor. "It's not what I am used to, so I don't like it." Reply
gmknobl - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkIt appears MS is going for a real sea change here. What's hidden may not be either evolutionary or revolutionary but the GUI appears revolutionary, and that's not necessarily good.
If they keep this to tablets only, they'll have to have a big hardware push at the same time and NO issues. In other words, a system that works as well or better than iOS from the start or they are in trouble in the tablet space. However, I think this is their best bet.
But as it stands now, if this isn't an easily disabled option for business and home non-tablet, non-phone computing it will fail in that area completely. One thing Apple got right with their OSes has been usability. (I think Amiga did too back in the day, and Android has now too.) MS has taken around three tries before it got a truly usable OS each time, including Win 7 which is essentially Vista SP2. They can't afford that this time. I cannot see this succeeding with desktops or laptops in the least. It's just too jarring, now matter how innovative it may be.
And I think the whole solid color flat 2d look is dead anyway but that's personal preference. Reply
avddreamr - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkWhile this format can and does work adequately in a mobile or rather hand held format the compromises that are made for this sort of functionality are simply unacceptable.
I hope that this is obvious, because if that's the UI I have to deal with day to day... I will either not upgrade, switch to penguineware, or go fruity.
I would hope that with the vast collection of talent that works for microsoft have to know that the ui should be tailored for its specific use. Give me a 3d-taskbar, with scalable icons, and I'll be happy with the progress in my desktop.
I tell myself that they can't honestly be this stupid... but then I remember windows millennium. Reply
CrapONez - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkI'm at a loss to see how/why Microsoft would abandon a legion of business customers and introduce a new interface requiring retraining, from a mobile device paradigm that it owns a scant few percentage points of. As Kelly Bundy would say: "It wobbles the mind!" Reply
alent1234 - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkdo companies really spend a lot of money on OS training? Reply
damianrobertjones - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkNo they don't.
Here is the training for Metro
"Do you see the massive Window for Icon there in purple... click it"
Opens Excel in the standard fashion.
"Do you see the saved excel spreadsheet there, right click and attach to the desktop/ui"
User scrolls tyo his/her Excel files.
User... "Ohh that's shiny" Reply
cldudley - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkThis. I have never had any computer "training" other than sitting down in front of the machine and using it.
I may consult the online help quite a lot at first, but after I get used to how things work it all kind of comes together on it's own.
Certainly no employer has ever given me a training class for applications, in 2011 it is just assumed you know how to operate a Windows-based computer and basic Office applications. I don't think there is anything wrong with this assumption. Reply
jecs - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkOk, tablets, I can see and understand.
But do I have to pay full price for a tablet shell on a desktop or a workstation? And if W8 is mostly an interface would MS consider W8 a service pack for desktop use?
I want to skip W8 shell on my desktop, but I may like or need W8 other upgrades at a "fair" reduced price.
If MS does not understand this I wont pay for W8. Lets hope the best for W9. Reply
damianrobertjones - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkThey offered Windows 7 at a reduced price Reply
dgingeri - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkIt looks a lot like the old Star Trek LCARS system. Sure, LCARS was imaginary for the most part, but the guys who came up with it back when Star Trek: The Next Generation was in pre-production had the same basic ideas behind their design. I'm thinking Paramount might have an nice IP case against Microsoft for this one. Reply
A5 - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkThey don't even bother to C&D the people who make explicitly LCARS skins for Android, so they would lose horribly if they tried to sue MS. You have to consistently defend your IP to keep it. Reply
UMADBRO - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkWhat are you smoking, and why arent you sharing? Reply
damianrobertjones - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - link"The converse of that is that Metro feels akward and out of place when used with a mouse and keyboard as a laptop/desktop. "
tell that to a new user who's using a computer for the first time.. they'll love it Reply
MacTheSpoon - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkHmm... well, it is just a pre-beta. I'll keep my fingers crossed that it gets the kinks worked out. Reply
araczynski - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - link...bad enough pc games get basterdized console versions, now they're making their main OS consolized too...
if this is their new norm, i'm just switching to apple, at least their crap is more stable. Reply
sviola - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkThen you're also going to be disappointed. THey seem to be moving OS X in the direction of iOS. But you can always install FreeBSD and run prompt only... Reply
damianrobertjones - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkWindows Media center was out before the Xbox and that used nearly the same look. Reply
Wellsoul2 - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - link"Windows Media center was out before the Xbox and that used nearly the same look. "
I agree. It's very similar to WMC which makes it usable on my TV with a remote control.
Sure it's dumbed down and clunky. WMC is very clunky IMHO.
I really like the idea of using this OS with my HTPC though since it will make it
easier to use all my programs with a remote control. The article didn't address
that but the future may also be using your computer hooked to a TV alot of the time.
For that purpose this is a good beginning.
I'd be totally happy if I could switch between Metro and Win 7 desktop for the higher
resolution desktop. Reply
ph0tek - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkApple will do the same eventually. Only difference is Apple will pretend they did it first, as usual.
Adapt or die. Reply
Dug - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - link
Business users want something like this. Portable, lightweight, easy to use.
If they can have a full os and run the many apps they are used to without using a dumbed down version like on other tablets, it will be very well received.
Look how hard companies try to make business apps on an ipad and android platforms. And how many people are using them but wish it to function like a full blown os.
With this you get the best of both worlds.
Plus you can easily use a mouse and keyboard when needed. You can't do that on android and ios because there is no mouse cursor. Reply
broccauley - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkactually, if you connect a mouse to Android a cursor will appear. Reply
faizoff - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkWonder when the Beta release will be to the public. Reply
KPOM - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkFrom what I've seen so far, Windows 8 looks very promising. For those who are skeptical of the Metro UI in the enterprise, consider that Apple is making inroads into the Enterprise market with the iPad. Companies are issuing them to executives and traveling professionals to keep up with e-mail and log into their intranets. A Windows 8 tablet or Ultrabook might allow them to have a single device for everything. Reply
sviola - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkAgreed. And it will probably have much less resistance from the IT department as well. Reply
sticks435 - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkThat may work for non-tech people, but it won't fly at any IT related company. I hardly doubt they are going to make SQL Developer, Apache directory studio, Eclipse or any dev related apps for Metro. Reply
KPOM - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkFrom what I've seen so far, Windows 8 looks very promising. For those who are skeptical of the Metro UI in the enterprise, consider that Apple is making inroads into the Enterprise market with the iPad. Companies are issuing them to executives and traveling professionals to keep up with e-mail and log into their intranets. A Windows 8 tablet or Ultrabook might allow them to have a single device for everything. Reply
trip1ex - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkThat dream will not happen. Tablets that can actually run Win8 will be too hot, and heavy with crappy battery life to make a good tablet so then why bother?
UMADBRO - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkBecause obviously, you have leaped into the future, got a finished version of Windows 8, finalized and production quality hardware, and have completely ran it through its paces. Thank you, sir, for the future insight. No more questions remain. PRAISE Trip1ex! Reply
ph0tek - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkYou're a moron. Reply
Decaff - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkFirst of all, thanks for a great article which covered alot of the things we can expect in Windows 8 (or whatever the final name will be).
Now, I'm left to wonder about a few things. One issue that springs to mind is that MSE now appears to be integrated into the OS to some extent. How will this upset the AV vendors, and how does it affect corporate users who can currently only use MSE if they have up to 10 machines?
Now, that was mostly a technicality. It is mentioned in the article that you can pinch to zoom on the start-screen, and the tiles would change size and adapt. Wouldn't this make it somewhat more effecient to use a mouse and a keyboard? Also, wouldn't it be a simple fix to allow the mouse-wheel to scroll left and right in the tiles display? Down goes left and up goes right?
Personally, I am also very interested in seeing how the metro UI will handle file organisation. I can definately see the alure of using the metro ui to browse my files, but how will it handle renaming and moving of files when I try to organise files belonging to different programs (i'm a university student, so I keep .pdf .docx, pictures and other types huddled together for projects). Typically, touch interfaces have done away with the traditional folder structure and instead used the relevant program to access the file structure (i.e. want to check your PDF, open adobe reader).
I'm also left to wonder whether the Repair function isn't simply a rebadging of the old system restore function, which has existed since XP as far as I recall. That one also left the user's files on the drive, and only looked at installed programs and such. Still, it is nice that they are putting more emphasis on it now, and the "revert to stock" function is becoming to obvious to the user. Hopefully, this will futher eliminate the need for DVD's with backups.
I do think the Metro UI holds some great promises, though not for the hardcore users. There will probably always be a need for a psychical keyboard and mouse in order to perform certain tasks, and I couldn't imagine writing anything serious on an on-screen keyboard. Though just imagine having the metro UI for a tablet, and being able to dock it to a traditional setup with mouse, keyboard and a big monitor and getting some work done. All without the need for extra devices. Or a dock-able keyboard, creating a laptop for the road along the lines of the Asus Transformer.
For me, I think the Metro UI is a great evolution for Windows, towards the current user scenarios, which is that the computer is more quite casually. The great part here is, that even if the connected part will sync all my photos from my phone and whatnot, I will still be able to attach a proper DSLR through a USB port and access all my photos in an instant, something which is hardly possible on most other tablets these days.
Some have mentioned the corporate side of bringing in a new interface, but in reality, do corporations really spend time and actual resources teaching personnel how to use the OS? Historically, corporations have always been very late to adopting new OS'es, which begs the question, whether or not training will really be necessary once people have gotten acquained with the OS privately.
There are still alot of questions that needs to be answered on how Microsoft plans on integrating some of the more mundane tasks into the new UI, and as always, I think their succes will largely be defined by their attention to detail, and ensuring that users can "live" in the Metro UI while still maintaining their productivity or even increasing it. Reply
Ryan Smith - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - link"How will this upset the AV vendors, and how does it affect corporate users who can currently only use MSE if they have up to 10 machines?"
Realistically I have to think AV vendors will be upset. You can easily disable Defender and replace it with other AV software, but this will hurt consumer sales. For businesses it's murkier. I can't imagine MS will turn off Defender if you have too many employees, but products like Symmantec's Endpoint Protection do more than just AV scanning and will probably remain desirable.
"Also, wouldn't it be a simple fix to allow the mouse-wheel to scroll left and right in the tiles display? Down goes left and up goes right?"
The mouse wheel currently works that way. The problem is that it's on a per-app basis, it isn't implemented in a universal fashion. Also, it's very slow to scroll that way with the wheel. Reply
Kakureru - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkthe beginning of the end for useable open platform computing..
TPM sucked ass when it was thought up and sucks ass now as implemented.
Sure its greeeeat to prevent a few pieces of malware but corporate abuse is more
of a danger than the viruses its sought to prevent. Reply
A5 - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkIf you'd like cite your claim of TPM being used for "corporate abuse", that'd be great. Reply
CSMR - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkCould someone explain: why is the start menu so small in the desktop?
The links there are: Start, Search, Share, Devices, Settings
No recently used programs, no pinned programs, no all programs? No libraries?
How is accessing programs going to work on Win8? Reply
UMADBRO - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkWhy not try our the developer release and find out? Reply
bupkus - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkI'm hopeful that it will run on my HP Touchpad. Reply
rasueno - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkdoes it play crysis? Reply
Ryan Smith - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkI'm wishing I brought a copy of Crysis with me. I would have installed it on the Samsung tablet given the opportunity. Reply
Exodite - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkSo in the end Windows 8 is Windows 7 with an UI I hate?
No thanks, I'll pass.
Over the last weeks we've seen some minor utility functionality previewed and I've tried my very best to keep fingers crossed that the many technical problems related to the OS will be addressed as well.
Not so it seems.
Essentially, from '95 onward the only real difference between releases have been a constantly changing UI and tacked-on convenience functionality. And the changing UI isn't a good thing, that's one area where consistency is paramount.
Personally I find what I've seen of the new UI to be a complete clusterfuck and the fact that we seem to get further and further away from the simplicity, power and elegance - let alone the intuitive interface - of a 20 year old OS (namely AmigaOS 3.x) is deeply troubling.
I don't want to advocate thrashing the entire code base and rewriting everything from the ground up but it seems more and more likely that's what it's going to take.
Oh well, my '92 Amiga still works. Reply
Belard - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkHey... I used to run AmigaOS 3.0 on my Amiga 1000. :P
I'm still not a lover of MS... but MS I see what MS is doing... it does make sense and they want to cater to the typical computer user, which is still a moron -er I mean, novice. I see teenager kids nowadays who grew up with computers that don't actually know how to USE a computer. Other than games, opening a browser to use facebook, email and IM and look at porn, that's about it.
For those in the work place, its about running a few apps (Word, email, quickbooks). So for many people, the desktop is either a clean place they rarely see or mess with hundreds of icons all over the desktop.
With the launcher and controls off to the side - which is a good place for these stupid 16x9 screens, it may means faster access to our apps and data on the computer.
I have 9 Apps open right now (Photoshop, Word, excel, Opera, Notepad++ (awesome - a text editor with tabs that remembers everything), various explorer windows. I can't see the icons, widgets or folders on the desktop itself. If its not on the taskbar - I'm not seeing it. So maybe, Metro/Win8 will work in the end.
Windows 8 is obviously about keeping control of the computer market... as iPad and MacOS are selling like mad - even Walmart proudly sells iPad2s - the marketing is more so than anything I've seen at a Walmart, oh well.
The removal of the F8 DOS is a step in the right direction... remember AmigaOS 2.0 and above from 1990 is still more advance than Windows7 in some ways.
I own an Android phone, which its GUI works like iOS. I run a WindowsPhone7 Launcher to replace the Android one... why? Its easier to use, its faster, it tells me info... I spent almost a year trying to find an app, my alarm, camera etc with my Samsung phone... I know where they are, but I maybe on the wrong screen or an icon gets moves. Whatever. The WP7 launcher works great for mobile devices... and an ACTUAL WP7 works even better.
I generally don't NOT like or trust Microsoft. In the end - it was Commodore that screwed us and killed the Amiga, not apple, not MS. I still have my Amigas... along with my Win7PC, ThinkPads and iPad. Whatever works.
If MS wants to improve upon what they have... a major change is needed.
Dos > Win3.0 / 3.1 > Win95 / Win98 > WinXP / WinXP > Win7 (weakest jump).
Hmmmm.... I think Microsoft may actually OUT-Macintosh Apple... that would be fun.
Windows 7 is the best MS has down for their desktop OS, finally. Its still a challenge for most humans. Win8's Metro interface is a GOOD move towards more elegane and simplicity over the OLD desktop. But MS *MUST* do a good job in making Win8 run properly with a mouse and keyboard. I'm fine with fingerprints on my iPad... Pros are NOT going to be putting their hands on their 24~30" screens to use PHOTOSHOP!!
PS: notice there was still a DOS Prompt: Icon in the Win8 preview. Reply
A5 - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkIf you think the only difference between Win95 and Win7 is the UI and "convenience functionality" (and I love how make this sound like a bad thing), then you are sorely mistaken. Reply
Exodite - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkFor the end user there's no discernible differences aside from those noted.
Sure, we've gotten higher versions of APIs such as DirectX or whatever but in the end that matters very little. Reply
UMADBRO - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkHave fun with that. Let us all know what happens when you try and even get that outdated, abandoned POS online, much less being able to do anything even remotely useful, other then playing old, shitty games. Reply
Exodite - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkI used my '92 Amiga as my primary computer until '04, at which point I built my first Wintel machine - mainly due to gaming.
The Amiga still works, were connected to the Internet with a 10Mbit PCMCIA Ethernet adapter, had an excellent browser for the time, and still offers a better desktop experience than any version of Windows.
I realize most people familiar with the platform only ever used A500's with Kickstart 1.2 or 1.3 and never actually saw the OS due to using it as gaming console. That's unfortunate, as AmigaOS 3.x remains unmatched in performance, simplicity, power and convenience when put up against any modern desktop OS. Reply
UMADBRO - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkThat must have been interesting. Ill admit, I also use older stuff for specific things, like my old P4 box running Win98SE for DOS and older Windows games. But I also realize that its usefulness is limited, at best. Eventually we all need to move on. Anyway, sorry for the hostility. The overall tone in these messages when I was reading last night just annoyed me to no end. The majority of people have made up their mind before even trying things out. I cant stand close minded people like that. Reply
Exodite - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkNo offense taken, I do see your point.
For me personally I suppose the disappointment is two-fold;
The distinct lack of technical innovation, which I consider current iterations of Windows to be in desperate need of, and the hodge-podge UI design.
The latter will hopefully improve until release at least.
I'm personally not a fan of metro in any way, though for WP7 devices I have no problem acknowledging that it's a very functional design with it's own distinctive style.
Unfortunately I can't see an upside to its introduction on the desktop. Someone likened it to a 'consoleization' of the desktop and I can only think about how how apt that statement is.
Still, final judgment must be reserved for the release version. Reply
Booster - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkLooks like another 9 years on Windows 7 to me. There's no way I'm ever installing this crap. Reply
Booster - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkI mean, how can you even multitask on this ridiculous garbage? I normally have like 10 browser windows open, 4-5 word and excel docs, plus a handful of Explorer windows. And I need to switch between all this really fast, copy and paste and so on. What am I supposed to do with this?! Reply
dagamer34 - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkStick to the normal desktop? Reply
ph0tek - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkLOL. Exactly. Some of these people commenting are so thick i's truly amazing. Reply
Belard - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkHopefully Metro Apps will be smart enough to work in a windowed environment... otherwise, they might as well drop the "Windows" name. If thats the case - then it becomes a non issue.
For tablet and phone devices, a full screen is needed because of the smaller sub 11" screens. Fine.
Remember, Win8 has a normal desktop. Its always there. And WebOS showed good ways of multi-tasking on a tablet interface. Seems that MS is still working on that. Reply
UMADBRO - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkCool story, bro! Reply
ludikraut - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkI can see the applicability of the Metro UI for business environments where you want to tightly control what users are able to do - collections departments, order processors, bank tellers, etc. The Metro UI is inherently more intuitive than a locked down desktop. Many home users will potentially benefit from this as well, but the challenge will be in how easy it will be to configure the Metro UI for the average end user. As for power users, such as myself, I can appreciate the Metro UI on my tablet, but there is no way that I want anything to do with it on my main desktop machine unless Win8 can be configured to run Metro on one screen and the desktop on another. Reply
HMTK - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkMy god, there are a lot of idiots commenting here. The Metro UI is indeed NOT suited for a pc. That's why you can easily change to the classic desktop. I would be surprised if Microsoft wouldn't let you choose a default UI or that you can push whatever setting with Group Policy in a business environment.
Quit whining, you'll have the desktop you know and love. You can even have both in the same machine. Metro when you want to use your tablet as a tablet and the classic UI when you use a keyboard and mouse. Instead of a glorified surfboard like an iPad you'll have that AND a laptop. Reply
Rand - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkThe article specifically says you cannot disable Metro, it is always there. If you want to launch an application you use Metro. If you're booting, you boot to Metro.
If you want to change system settings you use Metro.
It doesn't matter if you're on a server platform or a tablet, you use Metro. You cannot choose a default UI. It's Metro on all platforms, regardless of what interface device you use.
The "idiots" are the ones who read the article and listen to what MS has very clearly said. You cannot just use the desktop, and the start menu is gone permanently.
The desktop is effectively a legacy UI, there for backwards compatibility.
You will not just be using the desktop on any platform, or any interface. Reply
Ryan Smith - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkTo be clear, the Desktop and the taskbar are fully functional for desktop applications. The start menu is indeed gone, and trying to use quick search to launch something requires going back to Metro, but that's all that has been lost for desktop applications. You can still use the Desktop almost exclusively by putting program icons on the desktop or pinning them to the taskbar.
I'm not sure it's going to be practical to do that without the Start Menu, but as it stands that's what's available. Reply
Exodite - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkTo me that's equivalent of removing the desktop mode entirely, as filling my desktop or taskbar with random icons is pretty much the definition of inefficiency.
Personal opinion obviously but that solution sounds like, well, iOS. Reply
Exodite - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkThen again I'm one of those people who hated the removal of the old start menu in W7, as well as the lack of a W2K theme that didn't look like crap. Reply
UMADBRO - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkThen go install Windows 2000 and put your blinders on, you old fart. Reply
Exodite - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - link*sigh* With that attitude you should probably be hanging out on Engadget or something. Reply
UMADBRO - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkNah, they are fairly arrogant over there too. If you want to stay firmly rooted in the past, then dont upgrade. Otherwise, adapt and move on. Simple as that. Reply
UMADBRO - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkGood luck. All I hear on here is the gnashing of teeth, because ,*gasp*, people might have to try something new. I can already read the reports of people collectively croaking, still clutching their copies of Win 3.11 in their cold, dead hands.
Seriously, give it a goddamn shot before you automatically decide you hate it, you close minded asshats. Reply
Exodite - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkWhat's your angle?
Serious question, as I find it inconceivable that a mere user - let alone someone that's actually never used the discussed software - are so adamant about defending it to the point of absurdity and personal attacks.
Needless to say I have a theory myself but I'd rather hear it from you. Reply
UMADBRO - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkI just dont get why people wont even give something new a chance before they absolutely hate it. Its just retarded, IMO. Give it a chance. If you dont like it afterwards, then thats fine. At least you tried it.
Personally, I have the dev version downloaded and am going to keep an open mind when I give it a shot. If I dont like it afterwards, I wont hesitate to let people know why I dont, with an actual reason why, instead of going around blaring "Herp its stupid derp I dont like it" and not having ever booted it up one time. Reply
UMADBRO - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkAnd please, pray tell your "theory" as Im not really defending it as much as letting people know what I think of them for being narrow minded. Reply
frozentundra123456 - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkI have to say I hate this interface too. Why does microsoft seen to want to make everything look like a smart phone (or a cash register at McDonalds!!).
This touch interface might be OK for a laptop or tablet, but I cant imagine sitting at your desk and using it on a separate monitor. It would be like doing a continuous series of sit-ups as you move closer to the monitor to touch it and back away to read it, not to mention finger prints everywhere.
Unless you can easily turn off this interface and go back to a conventional desktop, this would be a deal breaker for me as to buying a computer with this OS.
TEAMSWITCHER - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkThere has been much mobile OS development in the last 5 years with iOS, Android, WebOS, MeeGo, Symbian, RIM, etc. A lot of design ideas for touch screen OS's have already been copyrighted, trademarked, or patented. Microsoft bought a scrappy little company called Danger that made the Metro UI, and it may be the only thing they can do now that wouldn't infringe on the IP of established players.
Microsoft has a big problem here. Desktop power users won't use the Metro GUI because it would just slow them down. And new Windows 8 Tablet users (running ARM processors) can't run applications from the existing Windows universe. Microsoft is trying to leverage the broad appeal of Windows in the mobile market, but this is pretty weak leverage.
Finally, that touch interface looked like a complete failure. How many failed swipes to open/close a fly-out menu can a human being endure? Be careful Microsoft, this is starting to look a lot like Vista! Reply
cjs150 - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - link"It would be like doing a continuous series of sit-ups as you move closer to the monitor to touch it and back away to read "
You have got it. MS enters personal fitness market! Reply
Belard - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkI hope MS already knows how to handle this...
The mouse wheel should fly the tiles left to right. Sure the wheel is pointed in the wrong direction - but its not hard to figure out and besides - a HOR. mouse wheel won't work. Even Logitech's wheels that have side to side scrolling just sucks.
Anyone with a rotating monitor (or manual rotate your whole monitor) can try this. Go to an image site that has normal up and down scrolling. Make your browser long up and down.... then use your wheel to move the whole page of photos (pretend they are tiles).
Or turn your head to the side. Reply
Sladeofdark - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkthe interface looks hideous just like phone 7 does. i just dont get it.. its like they HAVE to mess up every other OS. i can see how the metro tile theme could be good for old people , or my older brother whom is not tech savy. But it should not be the MAIN way of using the OS. I hope it doesnt make it like Aero really didnt "make it" into vista.. but Vista was still garbage. gosh.. this love hate back and forth thing is bad for my heart lol. Reply
Booster - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkExaclty. MS needs to get rid of Julie Larson-Green, the infamous inventor of the wretched ribbon and I suspect this abomination. Reply
BioTurboNick - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkThe ribbon is great. I'm sorry that you love trudging through menus to find the things you want. Reply
frozentundra123456 - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkI agree with Booster. I absolutely hate the ribbon in Microsoft Office. It may add a lot of things that menus didnt have, but most of them are worthless. It requires considerably more steps to do simple tasks.
The ribbon may be OK for someone who uses Office all day, every day, for business tasks. But I use it in a scientific setting, and just want to use the basic commands as quickly and easily as possible. For this kind of use, I really, really hate the ribbon. Reply
ph0tek - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkHow did you manage to post that on DOS?
Anyway... I bet the vast majority of people making the kind of comments as yourself are pretty old. Either that or just stupid. The Ribbon is better. Not debatable. New users of Office all agree it's better and do far better using it, thats a fact.
On Win 8 you can even customise the ribbon, or make a quick access bar with your own most used ribbon buttons. Instant access. You can get more quicker or efficient than that. Reply
cjs150 - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkNo the ribbon is not better. I am a power user of word, our documents often run to 100 pages, with tables of contents, multiple level headings and paragraphs, track changes, charts and tables. When we get board we throw in columns as well.
Let me take a simple example that happens all the time. Your document has track changes on it but is formatted incorrectly (for example you need to use keep with next). Right clicking the mouse will not bring up paragrpah settings because according to MS the context is tracking changes, so you go up to the ribbon, which is of course stuck in review mode because that was the last time you used it to switch track changes on, now scroll back to the home section of the ribbon, Where are the paragraph settings? - Not obviously there, you have to click on the little arrow in the bottom right of the paragraph tile on the ribbon and finally you have got what you needed.
And they call that an improvement?
The ribbon is fine for people who write a letter once every few days, but a complete waste of effort for business Reply
BioTurboNick - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkThat sounds like an imperfect implementation, not a problem with the interface style per se. Reply
quanta - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkSince the introduction of Windows XP themes, the usable screen spaces have been on the decline.
First of all, the default XP themes wasted more spaces by creating bigger margins/paddings between interactive screen elements just to fit pretty effects instead of making more efficient use of the same UI margins found in Classic theme while dressing up the visual.
Then came Windows Vista's Aero, which wastes even more space by switching to Segoe UI, where in its default configuration, has a bigger font sizes than the already inflated XP theme. Worse still, Segoe UI is one of the later ClearType-optimized fonts that looks blurry even after tuning, and ClearType itself isn't even designed for alternate subpixel layouts like non-aperture grille CRTs and Sharp Quattron (ClearType is only defined for 3-subpixel array, not 4-subpixel), making the default Vista UI look even worse on old and new monitors. Shrinking Segoe UI may have saved some screen estate, but the ClearType-tuned fonts are optimized for larger point sizes than the venerable Tahoma or even Microsoft Sans Serif, so it trades one compromise with another. The screen margin wastage is even worse than the XP themes. With all these new-fangled update, one would expect it the Aero UI will be more customizable, but it is not. You may be able to adjust the theme colours of Aero, but if you want to switch the colour of single elements such as (in)active menu bar or title, or switch the Aero font, YOU CAN'T! Well, at least not without hacking the system libraries[1], or going through the pain of editing the features with tools not supplied with the operating system, or use the Windows Classic theme. Windows 7 may have the mean of using the UI to build custom theme[2], but there is still zero method for conserving screen estates using Aero theme unless manually editing .theme files[3].
In this next Windows iteration, the incorporation of ribbon just add more clutter to the desktop. While the ribbon is needed for touchscreen uses, the way it is organized is far from most efficient. Does the ribbon really need text description over a button group for the buttons that already have descriptions on them? Desktop aside, the Metro fails to reuse the ribbon on the desktop UI, which would have provide a more consistent experience when switching between Metro and desktop, and even with the already bloated Windows 7-based UI, the ribbon layout still uses screen space more efficiently than Metro.
[1] http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/how-t...
[2] http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/create...
[3] http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb773190%2... Reply
Impulses - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkAnyone else concerned that Win 8's multiple display support will be pretty hobbled? I'm already iffy on the whole Metro style, switching back to Metro to open unpinned apps when working on the traditional desktop seems horribly inefficient... But I don't see how that's gonna scale across multiple displays, I guess ideally you could leave the start panel with it's live tiles on a second screen, but MS has a history of ignoring multiple display users...
We still rely on 3rd party tools to extend the taskbar or fine tune wallpapers across three displays... It's a shame too because after multiple cores and SSDs, multiple displays has been the biggest productivity boost I've gained thru hardware in the last 10 years. Reply
BioTurboNick - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkhttp://www.winsupersite.com/article/windows8/windo...
Multiple monitor support is improved. Though this is just the desktop, not Metro. Reply
CSMR - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkThat was fast. Thanks for the info Anand! Reply
Saad_Salman - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkI'm amazed how much MS is bragging about the so called 'windows tablet interface' with html5 (css & js) apps like it's never been done before. Dashboard? Remember something? Apple did it with Webkit application framework, with which, developers have been creating apps since OSX Tiger. Tiles are almost identical to dashboard with different ui.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dashboard_(software) Reply
Bees - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkHow do we think it is going to handle multiple monitors? Will only one get the Metro treatment while the rest show the traditional desktop? Reply
tayb - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkMetro is for portable devices. Slates, Tablets, etc. This will not be on your gaming rig.
The freaking demo was done on a 11.1" tablet for crying out loud.
Not only that but if you don't like Metro no one, NO ONE, will force you to use it. And who in their right mind would use it on their desktop??? Haven't you seen the other screen shots of Windows 8? It's still a desktop OS. Metro is essentially an "add on" for mobile. Reply
Rand - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkIt's helpful to read the article, and to read the tons of stuff MS has put up and all the live blogs from BUILD.
You HAVE to use Metro, you have no choice. Microsoft WILL force you to use it, it is Windows. On all platforms you have Metro and you will be using it.
Metro is not as addon, it is the core of Windows.
Any time you launch an application or configure system settings, or bootup or anything of the like you will be using Metro. It cannot be disabled. There are no alternatives.
This will be on your gaming system, and your servers, and everything else. MS has made this abundantly clear. It's been stated in a dozen articles.
You cannot disable Metro. Reply
rs2 - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - link"Microsoft WILL force you to use it, it is Windows."
You seem to have confused Microsoft with Apple, and Windows with OSX. If anything, Microsoft has a fairly good track record of allow users to enable "Classic" features if they prefer them. Reply
Rand - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkNo confusion, I just read what MS has said. Unless their lying, you cannot enable a classic experience. Reply
fausto412 - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkis it really time for a new windows?
Microsoft has lost its mind. Reply
Malih - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkBut I know I'll be buying a Windows 8 tablet PC,
or maybe if they can implement something like Kinect so you can operate the touch UI with non-touchscreen monitor, and do it from reasonable distance with good accuracy. Reply
trip1ex - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkMS is just creating the same tablets as they did before but with a tablet gui. And I think that is a mistake just as it was before.
The end result is a big tablet with terrible battery life and heat issues at a high price. No one wants that as a tablet.
And no one wants the tablet form factor to use traditional desktop apps because then you might as well stick with the laptop.
And Win8 on ARM? Not seeing how they can pull that off and have decent battery life and performance still. I will believe it when I see it.
The beauty of the tablets i have used is the lightweight. The long battery life. The snappy performance for reading, email, video, and light weight tasks. The fact it gets out of the way. It is not just the form factor.
Win8 on ARM will be a mirage because Win8 will not truly work well on ARM Reply
UMADBRO - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkOnce again, because you seem to have super powers and already know something about an unfinished product on unfinished hardware, you seem to be able to peer into the future and know everything there is to know about this. Bravo. Thank you for telling the masses your wonderful insight, instead of keeping it to yourself! Reply
rs2 - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - link"On a final note about system requirements, while Microsoft isn't talking about specific versions of Windows 8 at this time, they've made it clear that x86 will live on for at least one more generation in order to fulfill their desire to have Windows 8 run on everything Windows 7 ran on."
Hang on a second. Did you seriously just imply that Windows (or any other major OS) is going to drop support for x86? Or that there was *ever* any doubt that Windows 8 would not support x86? I think you've gone at least a little bit crazy.
x86 is here to stay, for at least the forseeable future (which I think gets us to around Windows 12). No software company is going to be willing to cede the entire x86 market to their competitors or ditch x86 as a platform just because phones and tablets tend to run ARM processors. Doing either of those things makes absolutely no sense at all. Reply
Rand - Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - linkI think he means X86-32, MS hasn't made any statements implying that X86 uarch as a whole is going anywhere. Reply
Ryan Smith - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkCorrect. x86 as opposed to x64 (since that's the nomenclature MS uses). Windows 8 will have 32bit x86 editions; MS won't transition to solely 64bit x64 for another generation. Reply
rs2 - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkThen the nomenclature used by MS is incorrect. x86-64 (or apparently, x64 is MS-speak) is fully x86 compatible, even down to support for 16-bit "real mode". As such x86 will always live on, even if Windows does eventually require an x86-64 based processor. Reply
loll123 - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkYes, but the issue is whether Windows will support processors that only have the x86-32 part of the instruction set. Reply
Lugaidster - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkDo you need to submit an app to the store in order to install a metro application or are metro applications still downloadable like regular apps? Reply
Ryan Smith - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkI can't completely answer this but I will do as much as I can.
ARM: The Store is the only way to get applications
x86: Applications can still be installed normally
With that said I can't completely answer where Metro fits in, because that specific question was never asked or a suitable answer given. Certainly Metro applications using MS's DRM scheme will need to go through the Store to make the licensing click. But Metro apps without DRM...? Reply
Lugaidster - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkI was thinking of something like business apps or apps that would never be approved because of content (the major reason jailbreaking exist on an iPad is because of the latter). It would be great if you could sideload metro apps... Reply
Stas - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkWhen I used Win98, I was stoked when I first heard about Windows XP. Absolutely loved it, after I started using it.
Windows Vista also made me anxious about the wait. Unfortunately, I wasn't as pleased; however, still satisfied.
Windows 7 is by far the best OS I ever used. That is exactly how I thought it would turn out when I decided to download the RC version.
Today though, I'm looking at this simplified experience for ADD kids, and I'm rather disappointed. Huge buttons, lack of menus and options, and I bet they killed off kb shortcuts :/ I would expect this from Apple; but MS... son, I'm disappoint *face palm*
I will still try it, whenever RC is available but I'm not holding my breath for something useful, efficient, and flexible. I'm sure it will be a great tablet OS though. Now, just to figure out why in the world I would need a tablet with powerful desktop, and a high-end smart phone... Reply
loll123 - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkI have ADD and I started my computing career on MS-DOS when I was 3 years old. So don't go around and make comments like that please. Reply
MGSsancho - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkIf we can not run explorer on out desktops then we will see the return of desktop shells ala lightstep, anston shell etc Reply
Adronson - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkAt about 6:20 in the video: "One big thing in Widows 8 is going to be the store."
That about sums it up. Looks to me like all these active buttons will be there using system resources to get your attention. Little spam generators whose ultimate goal is to keep the user online so that it is easier to spend money. Reply
PolarisOrbit - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkWindows 8 looks like the best tablet OS by a tremendous margin.
As a desktop OS, it looks terrible. Reply
TEAMSWITCHER - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkThat's the problem. Tablet users will likely run ARM processors, and using an ARM processor the METRO GUI will be the only GUI on the system. And you can't run *ANY* existing windows apps, it must be a METRO app. I predict failure! Reply
BioTurboNick - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkIs that so different than current Tablet OSes? So you can get high-powered full Windows classic/Metro-capable tablets or a limited Metro-only ARM tablet. Reply
versesuvius - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkOn Windows 7, the single click option, just selected a file and executed it at the same time, in the windows explorer file manager. There was no clear space in the file manager windows to click in and set the focus to. It was the same with every other file manager I could find. It then just became useless to me. I reverted back to XP and am quite happy with it. It was the most ridiculous thing about Windows 7. I suppose usability now, three decade after the first PC or Mac is defined a bit differently. People now, know what computers and GUIs are. And most importantly they have a prior understanding of what a GUI should behave like. I hope that they have fixed that in Windows 8, although I am at no rate going to use it before the first service pack is released. Reply
piroroadkill - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkI use single click, have done for years, even on XP, but I never noticed this issue. I tend to use middle click to switch focus, especially when doing file operations. Reply
saganhill - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkI love reading everyone's comments how they hate the new GUI. Its reminiscence of the WinXP release and only now are users abandoning that OS for a new version.
I have a premonition that all the people who "hate" the new GUI in windows 8 will in 5 years hate to give it up for the new one that MS will release. Very ironic. Reply
UMADBRO - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkAll too true. Everytime something gets changed in a newer version of Windows, people piss and moan and act like they are going to pick up the pitchforks and torches and go raze Microsoft for their Blasphomy. Then after it comes out and people actually try it, theyre mostly like "Hey, thats not that bad after all! HERP!"
I just wish all these complaining jackasses would go and give it a shot before whining and proclaiming their utter hate for it, without having ever tried it out. Wishful thinking, I guess. Reply
Shinya - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkmost people have tried it ( like myself) and simply don't like it. i don't like have 20 FAT icons on my "desktop" that eat the entire landscape of my monitor. i want small icons. i want to be able to have 2 or more windows side by side while i multitask. As it stands right now (until other or myself figure it out) you cannot do such things with the Metro UI.
working in the IT industry it is a must to have web and email side by side LIVE on the screen. not switching back n forth between the two.
but you're a troll (going just by you name), or a macf*g (in which case go back to engadget) so you wouldn't understand the words 'Computer" and 'Real Work' Reply
TEAMSWITCHER - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkI'm sure it will be successful as all the other METRO GUI devices - Zune, Kin, WP7.
Oh Snap! Reply
UMADBRO - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkCool story, bro! Reply
Wraith404 - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkHey, at least 100 people have accepted free WP7 phones. Reply
Krussll - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkI like it, i think the Metro interface wil provide a much more harmonious windows experience for people who've adopted tablet computing but still use a windows PC for the most of their. I like the fact that it provides you with your key info on start up and is a short cut combo away when you need to check it, i think it has potential to be a great feature if developers can fully utilize it.
I dont understand the people saying that it will be impractical for the mouse, umm you do have arrow keys on your keyboard i would have though that would have been obvious to use them. Reply
thrasher32 - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkI personally do not like the interface. I don't want a windows phone 7 look or OS on my desktop. I don't build $2000 gaming and production rigs to have the OS look like it's made for a 5 year old.
Microsoft, you need to change direction now or you're looking at another Vista. Reply
UMADBRO - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkopinions = facts? Reply
smithg5 - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkTake all of these purely negative comments, and replace "Metro" with "Desktop" and "Desktop" with "Command Line", and I'm sure you could have had the exact same conversation 15 years ago.
"You mean I always have to boot the desktop? It can't be disabled? I have to access the CLI from the desktop? Why would I use this on a server?"
The argument might be logical, but it clearly wasn't the end of the world then, and it won't be the end now. In fact, I think it's pretty great. Imagining system administration in 20-30 years, we all want some sort of swoopy sci-fi interface that's pretty and works well - this is the start of that.
It would be cool if they could Metrofy server management for simple environments. Reply
UMADBRO - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkAt least someone around here is forward thinking and isnt stuck on almost 20 year old interfaces. Reply
Wraith404 - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkfull screen, big blocks with no interactive multi-tasking is not forward thinking, it's a return to DOS 6.22 and the task swapper.
Trying to drive desktop users to a tablet interface is doomed to fail. Windows are containers, they are required for productivity. In grown up land where we do real work, you often have to look at one application and act on another. Flipping between them in full screen would be horribly inconvenient. Metro might be neat, but it's for toys, period. I understand that Win8 can switch between them, but since the two modes clash horribly that's just not a desirable process. I have the preview installed, and disabled Metro already, simple as that. Reply
ezodagrom - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkThe change from Command Line to Desktop was a good change, not just when it comes to aesthetics, but also when it comes to funcionality (multitasking).
The change from Desktop to Metro, while good for tablets and other touch screen interfaces, it's just not as functional as a Desktop UI in desktops and laptops that don't have touch screen interfaces, especially when it comes to multitasking. Reply
Zan Lynx - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkInteresting isn't it, that Microsoft has made versions of Server 2008 that don't have a desktop.
I haven't run a server with a GUI in the last 12 years. Who would?
Text file based configuration that can be remotely managed, programmed and monitored entirely by script...
Using a GUI to point and click is horribly inefficient and doesn't scale to more than two servers.
Real sysadmins don't do pretty. They want it to work. Real sysadmins don't spend time clicking GUI buttons configuring new machines. They boot them and they auto-configure from the network. You never touch a GUI. Just the power button.
You might use a GUI to configure one user as a template in Active Directory. You'd never use the GUI to add 100 new employees to the system.
The real use for the GUI is to distract the management while you get real work done behind the scenes using a laptop and an SSH command line.
A GUI for tiling your command windows might be acceptable. Barely. Reply
smithg5 - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkMy point wasn't that all sysadmins use GUIs now, but that the GUI hasn't gotten in the way of sysadmin work on a command-line, even though in most cases for Windows it starts up with the computer. This is a useful analogy for all these fears about Metro in a business environment.
That said, most of the volume Microsoft sees for Windows server is that "two servers" size environment. Most businesses don't even have 100 employees. For the rest you'll still have your desktop, and that desktop will still have a command-line interface. And hey, they might even make desktop-less, Metro-less versions for the enterprise. If they don't, it won't somehow make your text-file configuration, CLI remote administration wizardry stop working. You'll just be a couple of clicks from that when you start up your server/laptop, and then you'll have something pretty to look at during your breaks. Those servers that you never see the desktop of will benefit from a smaller memory footprint. What's the problem? Reply
piroroadkill - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkNo, not really. For the vast majority, the gui represented a way to use a computer that made sense to more people.
Metro is just a kind of gui, but heavily designed around touch and full screen tablet style use.
It's simply a bad fit for desktop users. I tried the dev preview, and I'm not impressed in the slightest.
This time, it isn't about resisting change for the sake of it. Really. The dev preview is seriously quite bad. Keyboard and mouse wise, it just sucks. Reply
TEAMSWITCHER - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkI've got the Developer Preview Up and running on a machine and I must say that I absolutely hate it! Whenever I click on the Windows Start Icon (lower left corner) you go to the Start Screen (METRO GUI), the Start Menu is gone! That's just not cool. Also the full screen metro apps are real easy to get lost in, it's begging for some kind of Mac OS X like Mission Control to see all running processes. There is no Back Button, I have to hit the Windows key to get back to the Start Screen. The Desktop (which has been standard on every Windows machine since the dawn of time) is now a strange bolt-on appendage to the METRO GUI experience. I don't know...this isn't beta yet and things may change....but so far consider me one totally pissed off Windows user...this shit isn't Windows. Feels more like Vista meets Bob. Oh, and calling icons "Charms" is gay. Reply
UMADBRO - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkWell, at least you tried it. But try and remember, this is still a pre-beta, and isnt finished yet. Reply
Icehawk - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkWhat are they trying to achieve? If it is one OS to rule them all I think they are making some serious mistakes as I do not believe traditional computing will be dominated by cellphones or tablets, they serve a much different function and will continue to do so indefinitely IMO. The apparent dumbing down of the OS to mimic a smartphone seems like a terrible idea to me.
*Assuming* the desktop/Metro experience isn't radically altered the paradigm shift to right-hand panes (ie, the "charms" menu) makes no sense, for the last 10-15 years we've worked from the left. Works fine if I'm using a tablet but that is it - on a desktop nothing could be more jarring. Especially when it isn't uniform, for example the Start menu still pops up on the left. Ugg.
Also why does anyone think I want a touchscreen on my desktop? How am I supposed to reach it my arms are not 3' long! I guess we'll be forced at the least to use multi-touch pads? I hope it will work in tandem with a mouse since I'm not sure how the hell I'd game using a touchpad. Reply
Shinya - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkMicrosoft,
I really dont care for Ubuntu (lack of support and games) and OSX (lack of games, software, etc etc)
Please don't make me switch.
give us the ability to turn off Metro when it releases Reply
ct82fl - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkI think if Microsoft really wants to succeed in the tablet market with their OS, they really need to figure out a new innovative way to navigate. I saw very similar things to Apple's OS and iOS. In order to beat the competition they are going to need to figure this out and figure it quickly. Reply
cyberguyz - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkSorry but I am a power user of my computers. I don't want them looking or working like a tablet or my iPod.
While I am usually on the bleeding edge with Windows, from beta onward with each release, this is one I am most definitely sitting out. It does not appeal to the way I want to use my computer at all. For a tablet that I am not expecting to use for heavy input or output, Win8 is just too cumbersome and tied to mouse or touch as primary inputs. Reply
Rand - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkA few suggestions, make CERTAIN your applications all have different names. If your applications have an uninstall.exe they will all be grouped together on the start screen with no way to differentiate them or tell which is for what program.
Similarly, if your apps have a config.exe you won't be able to tell which is for which without opening them individually. Any executables must have clearly differentiated names that indicate precisely what they are.
Also, you absolutely must trim down your bookmarks to only a handful. If you're accustomed to having a 100-200 bookmarks in various folders in your browser, that isn't going to work well at all in Windows 8. You'll end up with screen after screen after screen of bookmarks.
I don't think it's remotely practical or usable any longer to have more then a dozen bookmarks at the most. Reply
ilkhan - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkI think MS is going to have even more of a problem getting people off of 7 and onto 8 than they did getting people off XP and onto Vista, for the same reason.
From what I can see here, visually and productively 8 is going to be even worse than Vista. Reply
MrBungle123 - Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - linkI agree... If this is windows 8, I'll be buying 10 or 15 copies of Windows 7 OEMs before the Win 8 launch pushes them off newegg. Reply
nofumble62 - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkwhy bother? Reply
thrasher32 - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkI don't want my office PC desktop to look like a windows phone/tablet display. If this is Windows 8 then I'll stick with 7, and I'm usually the guy that buys the new version of Windows on the day it's released. Reply
Saidas - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkFrom what I understand, you will be able to disable Metro. I plan on doing so for my desktop and lappy and using it for my tablet and Smartphone. Perfect. Reply
Rand - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkAs the article said, and Microsoft said at Build. You cannot disable Metro. It is there from tablets on up to servers.
Any application launches and system configuration, and bootup etc always goes through Metro. Reply
Moricon - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkTo sum it up, this is just a huge pile of FAIL!!!
I see a massive backlash from the Tech world.
Give us improvements to the OS, Give us better performance, Give us new useful features but for GODS SAKE remove Metro from desktop use!
Its fine for tablets ( MEH to be fair) but it is completely pointless for dektop use for anyone who auctually does any work on the PC.
As for Windows Live integration, Yeah lets see how happy people are having to create a Live ID just to add on another user acount!
I build and repair Windows PC's for a living, have done so for years, and I can honestly say this is all wrong!
F*****G Social Application Integration into the OS ( FFS Only teenagers and losers want this)
Stupid gestures to navigate the OS
Tile based huge icons are crap ( What are we all running VTECH Kit designed for kids now)
XBOX Live Integration FFS who the blast gives a shit except XBOX Users! People who work are NOT cared about XBOX Integration.
I do hope they allow metro to be switched off! Reply
Wellsoul2 - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkI really like the idea of using this OS with my HTPC though since it will make it
easier to use all my programs with a remote control. The article didn't address
that but the future may also be using your computer hooked to a TV alot of the time.
For that purpose this is a good beginning.
Like Media Center it's clunky but functional for a remote control.
Wish they had a switch so you could change to high res Win7 desktop for mouse/keybd though. Reply
Taurus229 - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkIt is very sad that Microsoft is building a new OS for tablets and netbooks and totally ignoring the desktop power user. My thought at this point is that win 7 is the desktop os, and win 8 will be the mobile os. Microsoft has made it's bed, and will have to lie in it. Just too bad! Reply
Booster - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkMS can't be that stupid, honestly. Even Windows 95 has better multitasking than Metro. They're abandoning the whole Windows concept where you can have multiple windows open at the same time and switch between them. Metro on the other hand lets you do only one thing at a time.
Just through how many screens of dumba$ tiles do I have to scroll to copy a text for citation from a web page and insert it into a word document, for example?
Metro is destined to fail epically. It's better if MS realized this sooner than later, gave those responsible the boot and start working on a major overhaul. This isn't going to fly, people, don't you see it? Even Apple wouldn't allow itself to cripple it's users so foolishly. Hell, people resisted Vista like there was no tomorrow, just how exactly MS plans on shoving this disfunctional POS down their throats once users realize they can't do what they need to do with Metro, like at all??? Reply
Booster - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkIt's the ribbon again, but infinitely worse. Metro is just outright stupid, that is.
I remember watching a presentation by Julie Larson-Green where she pitched the ribbon back in 2006. IIRC she said that they listened to the users and created the ribbon according to their usage scenarios. So according to her the ribbon was next best thing since sliced bread.
Who were they listening to? The ribbon looks better give or take, but it's less useful in the workflow, it's less effective, it's just plain worse than the old concept. That division of MS doesn't listen to users, it's like a dictatorship in which we have to use our PCs the way that madam wants us to. But she doesn't do any actual work on the PC like me for example. Hell, you can't even preview a page or print without setting up the ribbon, where's the usability? Why do I have to scroll between all those damn tiles?
This Windows 8 fiasco is where MS finally needs to realize the situation and finally take the matters well in hand. Reply
archer75 - Thursday, September 15, 2011 - linkYou do realize you don't have to use the metro tile UI right? You can boot right in to a traditional desktop like you are used to.
Plenty of updates here for the desktop user.
Really this new metro UI just provides a better layer for tablets but the OS is still there which i'm really pumped about. I don't know how often i've been using my ipad and wishing I could access a real OS on it. Reply
Moricon - Friday, September 16, 2011 - link"Overall Windows 8 is extremely jarring right now from a desktop user perspective. Metro is the Windows shell, no ifs ands or butts. Metro applications can only be accessed through the Metro shell (i.e. the Start Screen), and the Metro shell is always what the tablet will boot up into. Explorer as we know it is the Metro shell – if you kill it, you kill Metro shell with it – so at this time it's not possible to boot up into the traditional Windows desktop. Even if you could, the Start Menu is gone, replaced with Metro charms."
Metro IS the windows Shell--- METRO IS EXPLORER!!!!
Have you loaded the build, I have, played with it. IT SUCKS bigtime!
Microsoft will go back on this, the pressure will be to great from the desktop user!
There are improvements, better memory management, faster boot process, safer recovery options, faster work-flow (yes ribbon is actually better for non-power users, who use keyboard shortcuts.)
Why can they not just bring those improvements to th Win desktop version and leave metro to Tablets, Netbooks and ARM anyway.
My days of PC Gaming are coming to a close, most Games are crap! Looks seriously like Mint will become my main Work OS and I will keep a copy of WIN7 for my back catalog of games! Reply
MrBungle123 - Friday, September 16, 2011 - linkHow is this Metro crap going to work for those of us that make a living with a mouse and keyboard?
I work in IT, I have to do everything from assisting users to writing programs. Its not uncommon for me to have Visual Studio, Outlook, IE, 2 databases, and 5 or 6 Remote Desktop connections going on at the same time.
There is no way in hell I'm putting this garbage on my work computer, nor am i going to install it on any of the desktops/servers connected to my network. This is a user training nightmare, the resistance to migrating to Vista from XP is nothing compared to what the resistance of migrating from Win7 to Win8 will be if the final product is anything like this. Reply
talk2dfox - Friday, September 16, 2011 - linkDoes anyone else think Windows 8 seems to have no coherent strategy?
For users:
1) two different types of applications, which can't run side by side: what do you do if you are a business user who needs to switch efficiently between one application which is Metro-based and another which is not?
2) switch to the desktop and click on the start button and you're back at the Metro UI? huh? Are the only desktop applications I can start directly from the desktop UI the ones which have links on the desktop?
3) some settings are in the metro control panel, others in the old windows control panel
4) too many gestures which will be impossible to remember because they bear no relation to anything you've used before. The whole reason why the touch experience of iPhone et al has caught on (and why even small children catch on to it quickly) is that it is familiar. Want to move what's currently on the screen up? put your finger on it and move it up as if it were a physical object. Want to zoom? use two fingers to "stretch" or "shrink" the image. So, what's the comparable analogy in Metro for swiping up to select a button? There isn't any. Not that Microsoft had much choice - they're trying to graft a touch experience onto an existing Windows UI which has too many different functions without physical analogies, so some of them are bound to be mapped to something weird. But that's the point - trying to graft a touch experience onto the existing Windows UI is never going to produce something coherent and intuitive.
For developers:
5) yet another API, but all the old APIs (.net and win32) still supported (but only on x86, not ARM).
6) If you are starting to develop an application today, what should you use?
Will an app built for Windows Phone 7 today be portable to Metro (and sellable via the Windows 8 store)? If not, will it run at all on an ARM-based metro phone or tablet? What about an x86 based tablet or desktop?
What if you want to write an application to be used on Win 8 on all form factors? The only thing which will run on Win 8 on ARM will be Metro, but the development tools for Metro don't exist yet. Think about how far WP7 is behind iPhone and Android today, and then consider what the situation will be like for Win 8 which is just now reaching the point where Microsoft can demo the UI and talk about development.
Contrast this situation with iOS/OS X: With a single language (objective C), a single development environment (xcode), and two variants of essentially the same framework (Cocoa), you can target iPhone/iPad and Mac. Reply

subset: commoncrawl