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Fall 2003 Video Card Roundup - Part 2: High End Shootoutby Anand Lal Shimpi & Derek Wilson on 10/7/2003 5:30 PM EST
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- GPUs
117 Comments
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Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - linkWhy are they using Flash to do this. I can't see the performance charts (or whatever they are)?
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - linkwhat a crap this article was. More games - sure. More data. Bot no brains to interprete it right, obviously. Reply
Anonymous User - Monday, October 13, 2003 - link#114
Its more than just difference in visuals. By removing some of the visuals the card will run faster. The Nvidia drivers for example do not do trilinear filtering in dx they do some fake bilinear. That makes the card better than it really is.
The whining is how the reveiwers missed all this stuff. People are not getting the true story here.
Anonymous User - Monday, October 13, 2003 - linkOkay now I'm new here and all but DAMN do some of you whine! You act like any visual diffrences between the Nvidia cards and the Ati (of which I can't see at all) are astronomically huge! It's not, this is the first and last time I post here looks like half of the people here are fanboys! Reply
Anonymous User - Monday, October 13, 2003 - linkI don't understand why the obvious differences in IQ in the Aquamark 3 4xAA/8xAF shots, for example, are totally ignored by the reviewer.
Just looked at the fuzziness in the plants surrounding the explosion in the nvidia shot.
Anonymous User - Sunday, October 12, 2003 - linkWell I hope it was worth it.
You spend all that time on a review and you end up getting caught being in someones back pocket.
Guess you can't have your cake and eat it to :( Reply
Anonymous User - Saturday, October 11, 2003 - linkHere's is part of an addendum to the 3DCenter article direclty addressing this comparison:
"AnandTech made an extremely extensive article about the performance and image quality of the current high-end graphic cards like Radeon 9800XT and GeForceFX 5950 Ultra (NV38). Beside the game benchmarks with 18 games, the image quality tests made with each of those games are strongly worth to be mentioned. AnandTech uses the Catalyst 3.7 on ATi side and the Detonator 52.14 on the nVidia side to compare the image quality. In contrast to the statements of our youngest driver comparison, AnandTech didn't notice any general differences of the image quality between the Detonator 52.14 and 45.23 and therefore AnandTech praises the new driver a little into the sky.
This however not even absolutely contradicts itself with our realizations. The nVidia-"optimizations" of the anisotropic filter with texture stages 1 till 7 in Control panel mode (only a 2x anisotropic filter is uses, regardless if there were made higher settings) are only to find with proper searching for it, besides most image quality comparisons by AnandTech were concerned without the anisotropic filter and therefore it's impossible to find any differences on those pictures. The generally forced "optimization" of the trilinear filter into a pseudo trilinear filter by the Detonator 52.14 is besides nearly not possible to see on fixed images of real games, because the trilinear filter was created in order to prevent nearly only the MIP-Banding which can be seen in motion.
Thus it can be stated that the determined "optimizations" of the Detonator 52.14 won't be recognized with the view of screenshots, if you do not look for them explicitly (why however AnandTech awards the driver 52.14 a finer filter quality than the driver 51.75 is a mystery for us, then the only difference between them is a correctly working Application mode of the Detonator 52.14). Thus the "optimizations" of nVidia are not to be really seen, whereby there is also a clear exception as for example Tron 2.0 (screenshots will follow). Whether this is now a reason to excuse the "optimizations" of nVidia about it, one can surely argue."
All on-line computer journalists should strive to inform their viewing public like these folks do.
Once again: 51/52.XX nvidia drivers do *not* apply trilinear filtering in D3D when AF is on. The 51.75 at least, applies trilinear to the first (0) stage, though not *AT ALL* to any other stage - the 52 series does not apply trilinear filtering to any stage in D3D, regardless.
Bing! Bing! Try again!
May I suggest the filtering tester used by 3dCenter, and perhaps a mipmap shading program (as used by everyone in the known universe), and rthdribl to discern *ACTUAL* image quality via high dynamic range light source rendering.
http://www.daionet.gr.jp/~masa/rthdribl/index.html Reply
Anonymous User - Saturday, October 11, 2003 - linkhttp://www.3dcenter.de/artikel/detonator_52.14/ind...
Take a look at this if you think the 5x.xx drivers have the same image quality of the 45s.
Anonymous User - Saturday, October 11, 2003 - linkThe only thing I give Anand credit for is allowing us freely write about his review. I mean he did not have to allow us to reply in a open forum.
After reading it I am not at all suprised at the heat he is taking, I hope he was not either.
The review had potential but was squandered.
Todays cards all all fast enough to do Dx8 games.
The question is can they do it will all the goodies turned on?
The main reason to buy a ATI 96-9800/5900U is to clean up the graphics but not at the expense of speed. If you don't care about image quality stick with your GF4 or 8500 as they both are horrid vs the new gen cards.
An old Gforce 4 kicks butt in mnay games so long as you don't have FSAA turned on.
Most people know that the 5x.xx detonator drivers do reduce image quality in many areas. This is not a driver bug its what Nvidia choose to keep pace. Image quality is much more subjective than FPS. People are not buying 400.00 video cards for the speed alone.
Anand glossed over/hid quality issues, the one area where subtle reductions here and there add up to large FPS gains.
People will say so what the XT gets recommended in the end why bitch?
Well its the principle, The review made the 5900 seem much closer to the XT than it actually is.
When a driver (beta one at that) improves speed that much it deserves a much closer inspection than what Anad gave.
Someone threw Anand a pass but he dropped the ball :(
Anonymous User - Saturday, October 11, 2003 - linkI didn't care for this review for the following reasons:
Many comments on IQ in part 1, but no followup in part 2. There were so many comments that they needed to be mentioned, even if it was to say that they discovered it was some wrong setting and they fixed it.
Small cropped compressed images used for IQ comparison. If the image is compressed how can we judge it? The only way to present IQ comparisons to the reader is to show them the exact images the reviewer saw, without compression or cropping.
Apples to apples. All of the benchmarks for all games should have been done in the same format unless it was impossible to achieve certain settings on a given card at a given resolution. Changing the metric for TR:AOD was a bad idea. Both parts should also have been done on the same system. For all we know the ignored IQ issues from part 1 could have been due to the AGP implementation on the first board. We just don't know.
Gunmetal is also a very poor DX9 benchmark, since it relies on VS 2.0 and PS 1.1 only. Since most of the benefits of DX9, and the controversies for that matter, revolve around PS 2.0 this benchmark is not a good exemplar of DX9 performance. I also find the fact that Gunmetal was co-developed by Nvidia something that needs examination. IHVs have no place in developing benchmarks, they should stick to technology demos.
Now I don't know if the 52.14 drivers do what the article says they do or not. I know Digit-Life said they gave up to a 20% improvement in some cases, and some improvement is certainly credible. However, this article as written does not support the conclusions that the 52.14 provide significant performance boosts with no IQ loss. I am not commenting on whether they do or not perform as advertised, only that you cannot draw that conclusion from the article. Reply
Anonymous User - Saturday, October 11, 2003 - linkGreat job with the review. I'm so happy to finally see benchmarks in more than just FPS's. I'm always curious to see what kind of benefits can be had by upping my video card in RTS games for example. Take a rest, your brain must be fried from all that benching.
One question. I have an LCD monitor and I can't get Generals:Zero Hour to run at 1280x1024. How did you manage to get that resolution for your benches since it is not offered in the game menu? Reply
Anonymous User - Friday, October 10, 2003 - linkAnadtech is a total liar. The 52.14 quality of picture sucks and so does my 5900 card sucks. Its garbage like it was before and the 52.14 drivers for sure are not helping it become better. As for the pictures i dont know how he dares even to say there is no difference in quality it for sure is a big problem the quality with all the games and programs i tried out.
Anonymous User - Friday, October 10, 2003 - linkThe TRYTH about the det. 52.14 driver:
A) OpenGL filtering appears to be just fine.
B) D3D filtering suffers from the following "optimizations"
Application Mode:
1) True trilinear is never utilized at all...on any texture stages. It's now all "pseudotrilinear"
Control Panel Mode
1) Same pseudotrilear as above
2) Proper Aniso level selection is only applied to texture stage 0. No matter what the aniso level selected (2x-8x), only 2x is applied to stages 1-7.
Anonymous User - Thursday, October 09, 2003 - linkI'd like to know what happened to all the CPU scaling analysis? I hope there's a part 3 which includes these same cards. Reply
Anonymous User - Thursday, October 09, 2003 - linkGood to see you are reworking the Flight Sim 9 BM. Your achieved FR in part 1 were so much higher than what real simmers are getting. Many people would be happy to get a reliable 25 FPS out of the game. Once there we can worry about IQ. So you need to push the texture sliders etc to put a real load on the system in this game. A continuing argument with this game is the importance of CPU/memory relative to graphics card in achieving acceptable frame rates. Anything in your testing that could shed light on this would be invaluable.
scott s.
Pete - Thursday, October 09, 2003 - linkAs long as I'm bothering you, I'd like to request Halo numbers with AF for your next review/roundup. AF really spruces up IQ, IMO, and it's a shame (almost pointless) to buy $500 cards and not run at the highest IQ possible. I'd also appreciate comparison pics with AF, as well. Thanks! Reply
Pete - Thursday, October 09, 2003 - linkWhoops, that was the URL of the inline pic, which works. This is the (broken) link to the large pic: http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/video/roundups... Reply
Pete - Thursday, October 09, 2003 - linkDerek, the Halo Det45.23 large pic link doesn't work: http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/video/roundups... Reply
Anonymous User - Thursday, October 09, 2003 - linkMight I suggest you remove the Tech part of your
Sitename ? there's not much tech anymore
Anyway this is not about Nv vs Ati, it is Nv vs DX9, It still states on NVidia's site, the FX series are DX9 card which they are not!!
Inform the people as it should & not as your Nv-Paymaster is telling you!! Reply
Anonymous User - Thursday, October 09, 2003 - link"We still urge our readers not to buy a card until the game they want to play shows up on the street."
What if we want to play DNF? Should I just wait till it's done?
Sounds like you're in nVidia's pocket more like it. Most people like games, not just one... so upgrading has immediate effects for most.
Anonymous User - Thursday, October 09, 2003 - link"We were told by NVIDIA that these new drivers would not only improve performance, but that they would be made publicly available the very same week we tested with them. Obviously, that didn't happen, and it ended up taking another month before the drivers were released. The performance gains were tangible, but the drivers weren't fit for release when NVIDIA provided them to the press and honestly shouldn't have been used.
Hindsight being 20/20, we made a promise to ourselves that we would *not allow any further performance enhancing drivers to be used in our video card reviews unless we could make the drivers publicly available to our readers immediately.*"
-Anand Lal Shimpi
October 17, 2001
Ah how the world turns. Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - link"If you think that's wrong, then you have a problem."
If anand had not stated that he would not do benchmarks with unreleased drivers then you might have a point.
Especially if an in-depth examination of the filtering and antialiasing quality had been undertaken. Too bad that didnt happen, despite what was claimed in the introduction.
Making oneself a hypocrite to appease the publics' whims by using unavailible software (for one manufacturer, but not another) is a direct shot to your own credibility.
But credibility is no longer important to this site, and many of the other premiere hardware review sites.
Page hits and advertisments pay the bills, do whatever it takes. Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linkThis is the most interesting sentence I found in this review:
"It just so happens that the default Microsoft compiler generates code that runs faster on ATI's hardware than on NVIDIA's."
So it is M$'s fault that nVidia's card runs slower? How do you know? Plus the numerous problem mention by other people, I can't believe this is from a famous harware review site. I don't think this review will earn nVidia any credit, instead Anandtech lose credit for it.
BTW, I don't think a driver update can improve performance by 50%, as the 52.* driver did, unless the old 45.* driver were written by a new graduate. There MUST be some trick in the 52.* driver.
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linkHey Mr. NostraDUMASS (#93), you want some cheese to go with that whine?
NV40 will be 3D king?! Only in a 4D world, dreamer.
Looking at the graphs and the numbers pretty much sums it all up - a crushing defeat for you know who. Anand and his crew did a decent job. They even tried to candy-coat it to appease the big N. Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linknvidia is coming back slowly due to stupid policy and strategy of nvidia ceo they have lost their supremacy and reputation in 3d graphics world but i'm sure next gen... nv 40 will be 3d king nvidia is smarter than ati . ati architecture is built on brute force of 8 pipelines and 256 bit memory nvidia cine fx is much more sophisticated. Reply
RoninCS - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linkYou know why he used them? Simple, actually. Because people wanted him to test them, and the public at large wanted to see how they perform. If you think that's wrong, then you have a problem. Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linkIm highly amused that anyone would flame someone for taking anand to task for using UNRELEASED DRIVERS WHICH ARE IN NO SENSE AVAILIBLE TO THE PUBLIC THROUGH THE MANUFACTURER.
Anand has said on several different occassions in the past that he would NEVER BENCHMARK WITH UNRELEASED DRIVERS.
He lied.
He did not bother to investigate the veracity of the claims nvidia made about image quality, inluding the total lack of true trilinear filering.
Why not? Nobody knows, and anand won't say.
There are several very well established methods for determining the true quality of a cards' filtering and antialiasing scheme.
Anand used none of them.
Coincidentally, everyone who has actually bothered to check the quality of the nvidia AF on any driver in the 50/51 or 52 series has found trlinear filtering simply does not work as advertised.
Indeed, far from predicting future DX9 title performance, the new test suite appears to be heavily biased toward legacy DX8/8.1 pixel shading, something the FX architecture is basically built for, and excels at.
The game (TR:AOD) that probably uses the largest number of DX9-class shaders (PS2.0) was not even listed in terms of absolute numbers. Instead, we have a percent decrease!!!
Why was this single game treated so differently when it would likely be the best predictor (along with Doom3 in ARB2 generic mode, and HL2) of future shader performance?
Coincidentally, the R3XX architecture dominates this test - absolute frame rates would have been heavily embarassing for nvidia.
Lucky anand didnt bother to list them! Instead, he spent several paragraphs discussing water that didnt render quite right.
The GeForceFX family are decent cards, with very good performance indeed in DX8 class games. DX9 games with real DX9-class shaders is a different story altogether.
But you won't be getting that story here, and anyone who bothers to bring it up will be labeled an "ATI fanboy".
How sad.
How childish.
How utterly self-serving.
This article proves quite handily just how much of anand's credibility has been lost. Anand has jumped on the Thomas Pabst bandwagon.
Next stop, [H]ardOCP.
Toot, Toot! Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linkwhat happened 2 ur glasses anand ?? just by looking at it u can see clear differences in the way NV and ATI render aquamark. and what about the missing FPS in TRAOD ?? instead of writing summin like "NVIDIA really gets crushed by ATIs PS2 performance." ur saying " It is very clear that the way ATI handles rendering TRAOD's PS2.0 code is more efficient." and only show sum _absolute irrelevant_ ps2 ratios not correlating with each card in ANY WAY ?!? ooookay, so ur praccing 4 ur politician-career, arent ya ? honestly, that article feels so biased towards NV its just not decent anymore...anandtech was my favourite site when it comes 2 reviews but after that i rather stick 2 another one when it comes 2 gfx cards it seems.
i really wondered how anand could be the first site benching a gfx5950 and here we got the answer it seems...gn8 Reply
RoninCS - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linkTo 90, perhaps you should be a writer for Anandtech instead, since you seem to be much more critical, although it would appear you don't run a world reknowned hardware site.
Talk about critical...sheesh. Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linkI think Anandtech should consider that quantity doesn't equal quality.
If it was only fps, then lots of games is perfect. But we were supposed to be talking IQ in this part. Well... I saw very little actually written about IQ in the article.
On the very first page, I immediately notice big differences in IQ. On the tank I see lots of places were the NVidia drivers don't seem to do any AA. And the details around the explosion are far more blurry. Those things are obvious allthough I'm looking at a reduced size JPG! And I see no remark about IQ at all !?!?!?
Going to F1 challenge to the 4xAA/8xAF. Or is it? I see absolutely no AA *anywhere* with the NVidia drivers. And it really really really obvious in these shots!! Again, no comment about IQ at all?
Do I need to go on? Gunmetal also shows AA differences.
Finally, with Homeworld Anandtech notices too that there's no AA with the NVidia drivers.
Luckily, it's a know issue...
Jedi Knight. Well, here the NVidia does do some AA. But it's really little compared to ATI's. No IQ difference???
Neverwinter. Look at the pilar to the right, and the plants on the left. Do we again see clear AA differences, like NVidia seem to forget those objects?
But it gets worse...
How on earth can anyone place these utterly rediculous Tomb Raider and Wolfenstein screenshots??????
Come on! I've seen beautifull screenshots of streets in Paris in Tomb Raider. Perfect for testing IQ. And all we get is a 90% black screen? Same goes for Wolfenstein...
What where you guys thinking?????????
This is so incredibly far below the high standards that I'm used from Anandtech...
Please look again at this article, and do a proper job at assesing IQ. Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - link#41, maybe you and your wife should start a website, you could benchmark ATI cards exclusively. That way ATI would always wind up on top. Admittedly, I'm an ATI junkie (I own a Radeon 8500 and plan to buy a 9600XT ASAP), but enough is enough. (By the way, what's up with the bread/butter analogy? You seem very fond of it.) Seriously, though, either of these cards are really fast and aside from IQ differences, you couldn't tell a difference. A little question for anyone who would know, though: How much does IQ drop going from PS2.0 to PS1.4? I have Halo and I'm wondering how much better it would look on a DX9 card instead of DX8.1. Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linkif you look at the gunmetal screenshots, that is my only beef with ATI, the scenes are not rendering completely or properly it has happened to me in a lot of games, black areas. Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linkThe article does seem somewhat comprehensive that is true, but: a)other sites reviewing the software did not come to the same conclusions, mainly problems with trilinear and AF again.... b)I have yet to see a review that claims to be unbiased have this much opinion sprinkled all over, mainly pro nVidia which relies on IQ comparison which i refer to in a c)the drivers are beta and not whql so who knows what we'll get as consumers d)the hardware is not yet anounced formally by nVidia e)it seems the choice of what to show on graphs is very subjective,TRAOD shows percentage drops with PS 2.0 but what are the framerates?
I do hope this review is correct because it means nvidia are back but due to the above stated qualms I have I can't trust this review. Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linkThe article is extremely comprehensive, as one would expect from Anandtech. Some issues of note:
1. It was pointed out that the 5900 and the 5950, in many areas, performed almost identically. This doesn't pose well for nVidia.
2. I'm bothered by the tremendous frame rate difference between ATi and nVidia in some of the titles. It leads me to believe there's something underlying going on, and it's not just a simple card/driver issue.
3. It's nice to see the IQ back to where it should be, as visual quality should never be compromised for performance, unless the user makes the adjustments to do so.
4. I will admit it sort of seems that there is some bias towards ATi, but it's not flamingly apparent. Again, it is just my perception, and doesn't necessarily mean that there is.
5. The most accurate remark made in this review is simply that we are not in the world of DX9 games...yet. To that end, DX9 performance is not nearly as important as it will be. When it is, I think things will step up a few notches. Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linkNicely detailed article, and I appreciate the additional games for benchmarking. Any chance we could seee the use of a flight/combat sim program like IL-2 or Mechwarrior? Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linkI don't know why everyone is believing the IQ results (or even trying to use Photoshop to check the differences). These pics are JPG's! They're already manipulated by the compression logic, and who's to say these pics are true? Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linkLoooooong time reader, new poster.
Excellent work Anand and Co. I found the article very informative, and although certain folks don't enjoy reading your "opinions" on some of the benchmarks, I thought they were very appropriate. It will be interesting to see how the official driver releases function under the latest and greatest DX9 and OpenGL games...
Thanks for all your hard work and effort!
Mike Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - link#78
The shots has not been taken in the same frame.
Gunmetal, contrary to Aquamark don't have such option....that's why so many screenshots are taken at the beginning of a scene or a dead spot. Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - link#67
I seriously suggest that you upgrade everything else in your machine, reinstal drivers, game and defrag.
Mine runs perfectly at 1280*1024 with the max AF and displays between 40-60fps all the way using the cg_draw command and that's GAMEPLAY framerates .... with sound, AI and all the whistles. I see no need for AA at that resolution thou (not a nice IQ/performance trade there)....at 1024 it does wonders thou. Reply
capodeloscapos - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linkWhy nobody said anything about IQ in GUN METAL???
Only NvIdia 52.14 shows the fire in Mech's Gun.
What happened there??? Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - link#67 I think the lightsaber glow is horrible on the Nvidia cards. They glow shines THROUGH the players head. Looks to me like a bug. I like the ATI saber much better.
(Most peoples heads aren't empty, so light does not shine trough. Maybe your experience is different? ;-)))
#76 Couldn't agree more. The blurry AA in aquamark is crystal clear even in those tiny images. So how could the authors possible miss that and proclaim that there is no IQ issues? Especially since they have looked at the fullscreen images and spend days on the article?
Also you can immediately see in all the small images that in general AA is better on the ATI card. This is nothing new, and not considered cheating by Nvidia. It's just that most know that there is a quality difference.
But shouldn't that at least be mentioned in an article that is focused on image quality?
Why no screenshots on splinter cell? We should just believe the authors on that? With the aquamark pictures they have shown that we can't take their word for it. So I'd really like to see those screenshots too. Same for EVE.
And I was really suprised that they didn't know that the water issue in NWN was NOT Ati's fault. They claim that they have surfed forums on NWN issues. In that case they should have known that. (one look at rage3d would have been enough)
And on top of this the TRAOD part. It seems they typed more text on TROAD then they did in the entire rest of the article. No wonder that people frown at the TROAD part.
All in all, I can see that much work went into the article, but I feel that it could have been much better.
As it is now it is left to the reader to find the image issues in the small pictures. But I would expect the author to point me to the image issues. Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - link#74, conclusions are one thing, objective journalism is another.
There are clear differences in even the small and relatively badly chosen images posted with the article, yet all we get to read is "there are no IQ issues".
Thus, either the authors of the article are not competent enough (maybe they were simply too tired after the testing...) , or they are intentionally ignoring the differences. Reply
Iger - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linkI just can't stay aside and not to thank the authors. The job they've done in this article is amazing, and the site was and will be my all-time favourite! Thank you! :) Reply
Malichite - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linkI am extremely confused with the posts here. Many ATI guys seem to think AT unfairly favored the nVidia cards. Did we read the same article? In the end I came away with the opinion that while the new Det 52.xx help, things may get better for nVidia, the ATI is still a better choice today. Did I miss something?
Additionally for all the guys claiming TR:AOD is a great game. Yeah, we all know only the truely *great* games pull a %51 rating over on www.gamerankings.com (based on 21 media reviews). Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linkJust what kind of world do we live in before a guy has to say why he's not a fanboy before they express their opinion, anyway? The worst part is, you people who do this, you're completely justified in your actions, because if you don't explain why you're not an ATi/nVidia fanboy then people call you one.
God.. can't we argue without calling others fanboys for once? Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linki forgot to add the j/k part... i dont want you taking my poor attempt at humor the wrong way... ;)
anyways, i dont know what all the commotion is about.. shouldnt u (ATI-folk) be happy that nvidia is making vast improvements?
i would feel sympathetic for people who THOUGHT they wasted $400+ dollars on a card that didn't seem to deliver the performance it promised... Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linkWhat kind of biased crappy unproffesional review shows percentage drops for enabeling ps 2.0 without showing framerates? if fps are around 30 to begin with the % of fps drop makes no difference cause the game is rendered unplayable! and who benchmarks beta drivers not available to the public on hardware not yet anounced?this reeks with $ payoff and seems like anadtech have thrown thier integrity to waste.I wish that on the 10th when nvidia anounces the nv38 they also release these drivers to the public than some seious review site can actually test the hardware
(and software, forgive my skeptisicm but nVidia sure earned it this past year) and show us what nVidia is bringing to the graphic's field.
Disapointed by nVidia and now by Anandtech Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linksure u do... ;) Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linkNot everyone talking about IQ differences here is a fanboy.
Look at the images at the bottom of the Aquamark 3 IQ page (highest quality AA, 8xAF). The nVidia 52.14 image is blurred, much detail is lost especially around the explosion. The Catalyst 3.7 image is way sharper, yet its AA is smoother (look at the car body above the wheels), and it loses much less detail around the explosion. The differences are much more than "barely noticeable".
The tiny images don't give much credit to the article, though.
(Before anyone calls me az ATI fanboy: I have a GeForce FX 5600 dual DVI.) Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linkTR: AOD is a terrible game, most people just like it because it's such a hot spot for all this benchmarking shite.
At times like this, I'm glad I use a Matrox Millenium II! .. okay, kidding, but still. Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linkDidn't anyone notice that Ati doesn't do dynamic glows in Jedi Academy with the 3.7 cats!? Look at the lightsabre and it's clearly visible. They only work with the 3.6 cats and then they REALLY kill performance (It's barley playable in 800*600 here on my Radeon 9700 PRO) Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linkfunny to see that ati fanboys can't believe that nvidia can bring drivers without cheats. And nobody talk about the issues in TRAOD with ATI cards, really very nice... Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linkWTH did you benchmark one card with unreleased drivers (something you said you would never, ever do in the past) and use micro-sized pictures for IQ comparisons?
You might as well have used 256 colors.
The Catalyst 3.8's came out today - the 51.75 drivers will not be availible for an indeterminate amount of time. Yet you bench with the Cat 3.7's and use a set of unreleased and unavailible drivers for the competition.
I suggest you peruse this article:
from 3DCenter (german) to learn just how one goes about determining how IQ differs at different settings with the Nvidia 45's, 51's, and 52's.
Needless to say, everyone else who has compared full-sized frames in a variety of games and applications has found the 5X.XX nvidia drivers (all of them) do selective rendering, and especially lighting.
And why claim the lack of shiny water in NWN is ATi's fault?
Bioware programmed the game using an nvidia exclusive instruction and did not bother to program for the generic case until enough ATI and other brand users complained.
This is the developer's fault, not a problem with the hardware or drivers. Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linkNice article. I like that you benched so many games.
Unfortunately you missed that the Det52.14 driver does no real Trilinear Filtering in *any* DirectX game, regardless of whether you're using anisotropic filtering or not. This often can't be seen in screenshots but in motion only. Please have a look here:
There is *NO* way for a GeForceFX user to enable full trilinear filtering when using Det52.14. No wonder the performance increased... Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linkTR: AOD is a fine game, you just have to play it...
Sure there are some graphical issues on the later levels but there's nothing wrong with the game as such and considering that it has made its way into a lot of bundles (sapphire and creative audigy 2 ZS to name two) I believe it will recieve a fair share of gameplay. Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linkYou guys need to stop talking about gabe newell...for such a supposed good programmer he sure needs to learn about network security...We all know he's got his head up ATI's rearend. The funny part is that they are bundling hl2 with the 9800xt (a coupon) when it isn't coming out until april now. Who's to say who will have the better hardware then? Doom 3 will likely be out by then. In 4 months when the new cards are out you guys won't care who makes the better card the 12 year old fan-boys will be up in arms in support of their company. I owned the 5900u and sold it on ebay after seeing the hl2 numbers. I then bought a 9800pro from newegg and on the first tried ordering the 9800xt from ati which said it was in stock. 2 days later they told me my order was on backorder and hassled me when I wanted to cancel. One thing I'd point out is that war3 looks much better on the 5900u then the 9800. It looks really dull on the 9800 where it's bright and cartoony (like it should be) on the geforce. Either way who knows what the future will hold for both companies but let's hope they both succeed to keep our prices low.... Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linki took over #41's original post... i didnt like his tone :| Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linkIQ part was crappy at best. small screenshots in open not-so-detailed areas and sometimes there was no option for a big one to check.
You can call me what you want, but there are quite a few reviews there that will disagree BIG time with what has been posted about IQ here. And it is impossible all of them are wrong on this at the same time.
HomeWorld has shadow issues in ATI cards with cat 3.7, yet that ain't shown there anyways....this goes for both ways.
If you ask me, NVidia got his DX9 wrapper to work fine this time. Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linkUm what happened to post #41 where the guy detailed all the inconsistencies of the IQ comparisons? Please don't tell me you guys actually modded that post....
I haven't had the chance to go through everything yet but those few I did, I definitely saw differences even in these miniscule caps (how about putting up some full size links next time guys?).. particularly in the AA+AF ones. It's obvious theres still quite a difference in their implementations.
I was also surprised at the number of shots that weren't even of the same frame. Honestly, how can you do a IQ test if you aren't even going to use the same frames? A split second difference is enough to change the output because of the data/buffer/angle differences etc.
Personally I wonder what happened to the old school 400% zoom IQ tests that Anand was promising and I'm fairly disappointed despite the number of games in this article.
That said, I am glad that Nvidia didn't botch up everything entirely and hopefully they'll have learned their lesson for NV4x. Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linkWhere can i get the 52.14 drivers? Reply
Anonymous User - Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - linkI'm impressed. I've never seen a review that actually has the games I play most frequently in it. I've been un-interested in FPS games since Quake II.
In particular, I like Neverwinter Nights, C&C Generals, SimCity 4, and to some extent WarCraft III (and by extention, their expansions). I was under the impression that SimCity 4 was CPU bound under almost all circumstances, it's useful to have that shot down.
I also like AA and AF. You can imagine the slideshows I play with my Athlon 2100+, 1GB DDR, and Radeon 64MB DDR (a.k.a. 7200)
Now I just need to see the ATI AIW 9600 Pro reach general availability. Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkThank you so much for this review... the detail is spectacular. After reading and lookig at all 60 pages... I am really tired. Thanks again for your dedication! Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkUm why are there no comparisons using two monitors with diffrent cards running . Gabe of valve said there is a set of drivers that detect when an screen shot is being taken. Or did anand just get duped by nvidia Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkI would like to know:
1. Why fps was left out of TRAOD
2. Why the weirdo never seen before TRAOD PS2.0 percent loss graph? How about giving us good ole fps which is what we have been seeing for years and what we are use to, at least have both if you are going to introduce new graphs.
3. How the reveiwer seems to know "Nvidia is aware of it" and never seems to know if ATI is aware of problems? I mean he would have had to talk to Nvidia to know this. Did Nvidia pre read the review and then tell him they are aware of a problem and will fix it??
4. What motiviation does the reviewers have for helping Nvidia or at least seem optimistic. What has Nvidia done to earn this tip toeing around type of review? If anyting they have dug themselves a well deserved hole. I'm talking about Nvidias horrid behaviour as a company in the past 6 months. Why would they reward a company that pulls the stunts they have lately? Do they feel sorry for them?
All I can say is the tone of this review leads me to think there is more to this than meets the eye.
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - link#52 yeah im sure people play games in window mode.
How can u see the differences from such a small screen shots. Its well known that Nvidia hacks or shall I say "optimises" for benchmarks giving no thought to IQ. This article displays Blatant nvidia @ss kissing. There was good reason Gabe didn't want his game to be benched with det.50xx, take a guess, more hackery from nVidia. Also Anand mentions certain anomalties with the geforce fx on certain games but does not try to exlpore what those errors are and assumes nothings wrong. In homeworl the Fx isn't even doing FSSA. Geez wish the nvidia fanboys would get a clue and crawl out from under that rock the've been hiding under. Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkThis is the most interesting article I have ever read for sometime.. First of all, I agree with #41.. I think including this many games into benchmark prohibits Anand/Derek to make detailed analysis of the games.. But there is something more interesting..
It seems that Anand and Derek tried to put an article that hides the problems with both cards.
They also deliberately try to avoid giving one company favor. In one sentence, they claim ATI is best, in the next line, they state otherwise.
As for the IQ comparison, many of screen captures are either dark or can not reflect what AF+AA intended to do.. If I just check the small pictures, I would say that the IQ are really similar. However, more detailed analysis reveals other problems. Besides, the review of the TROAD is the wrost I have ever seen.. If they post the frame rates, I am pretty sure that everybody will be shocked to see the results.. How won't they.. Think about it, the performance percentage loss of FX5950 is 77.5% for 1024x768 noAA/AF. Even if the game runs at 50 fps with PS1.1, the frame rate would drop to 10 fps when you switch to ps2.0 in this case.. However, refering to Beyond3d is interesting, because that site has a very detailed benchmarks of both 5900 and 9800 with this game ( I strongly recommend to anyone to see these articles who really wants to learn the actual performance of NV5900 and R9800 in the PS2.0 scenarios)
But I totally disagree with Anand in one thing.. TROAD performance is a real indicator for the future games that will uses PS2.0 by default. The games v49 patch also uses HLSL to compile directly to ps2_0_x which is actually the Nvidia's NV30 architecture, and the compiled code runs faster than Cg compiled code. Even in this case, 9800Pro still runs much faster that 5900 ( I am talking about 70 fps vs. 35 fps.).
I guess nobody want to see that his/her 500$ graphics card would crawl in the new games which uses ps2.0 by default just one year after he puchased the card.. And no! I am not a ATI fanboy.. Just a tech fan who does not tolerate to see how some sites really misdirects the readers because of their connections to the IHVs.
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkOh, come on, fanboys, stop yelling at Anand for not making nVidia look bad enough. His job is to benchmark, not to rant. Jesus Christ, you people annoy me. Try printing out the three images from any given test WITHOUT looking at which one's the Radeon.
And no, I'm no nVidia fanboy, nor am I defending nVidia. I use a softmodded Radeon 9500 and I absolutely love it. I have never, ever put a GeForce FX in my system, and I'm happy to say this. But can't you people just let go? Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkFIFA 2004 !!! That alone make this worth while !!! Reply
Rogodin2 - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkYou should use IL-2 Forgotten Battles with "perfect" detail settings (pixel shaded water and a system knee-bringer) for a simulation benchmark.
rogo Reply
Dasterdly - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkI could see IQ differences on the dune buggy left side top. The ATI pic has better detail.
Please add 3dmark benchmark.
Good review so far almost 1/2 way thru :) Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - link#41 "[...] who butters your bread???"
Thats an interesting question, I suspect he does though my question is "who wants to know?" ; )
In regard to your other question. "Why can't we have a true winner now?". As for myself, I'm going to give Dereck and Anand the benefit of the doubt.
It seems to me that they realize that NVIDIA attempted to do somthing unique with it's 5000 series being that it does not exactly hold to the Direct X 9.1 spec. For instance it has a 16 bit and 32 bit rendering mode while DX 9.1 requires 24 bit - which ATI does (refer to Halflife 2 and DOOM III reviews). In the sharder area NVIDIA holds FAR more code (micro ops) than ATI - also if you check back to Anand's original post on the ATI and NVIDIA shootout(s) where there is a comparison between AA and AF NVIDIA was a CLEAR winner. I seem to recall a while ago that NVIDIA claimed ATI didn't do TRUE AF so they were therefore CHEATING. Boy did that one come back around with teeth, huh?
What I'm saying is NVIDIA tried to one up ATI by tring to do more, unfortunately it seems they tried to do TOO much and ended up doing SHADY maneuvers like the whole Future Mark mess. They should of instead focused on the spec. DX 9.1 and the Microsoft shader/pixel code path and not tried to pull a GLIDE like 3DFX (excuse the parsed english).
So, hopefully NVIDIA learns from it's mistakes modifies it's silicon to the spec. and gives us all BETTER cards to choose from come March/April.
As far as the authors are concerned, Anand and Derick seem to be attempting JUSTICE (helping the party who needs the most help, and treating all parties equally) - which in this case seems to be NVIDIA. The authors are helping NVIDIA by dropping HEAVY hints like what you stated
" Next year will be the year of DX9 titles, and it will be under the next generation of games that we will finally be able to crown a true DX9 winner. Until then, anyone's guess is fair game." and
" If NVIDIA can continue to extract the kinds of performance gains from unoptimized DX9 code as they have done with the 52.14 drivers (without sacrificing image quality), they will be well on their way to taking the performance crown back from ATI by the time NV40 and R400 drop.".
If NVIDIA takes head of these CONSTRUCTIVE statements then the entire gaming community could benifit - in better prices, higher quality to which the customer usually benifits (AMD vs INTEL sound familiar?).
So, let us be easy and enjoy the night. Time will tell.
aka #37
PS: Dereck please excuse me for leaving out your name before. The article was well written. Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkRegarding my previous post #44, I wanted to write:
...the difference **between AA/AF and noAA/AF** is very noticeable in the game... Reply
Jeff7181 - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkCan you say "highly programmable GPU?" I can =) Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkWhy didn't you guys wait for Catalyst 3.8? It's out tomorrow and is reported to fix many IQ problems in games like NWN. What would a couple of days have hurt, especially since this article is going to be irrelevant after the Cat drivers are released tomorrow? Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkNote: the AA/AF and noAA/AF images of Warcraft3 have been mixed up for the NV52.14.
It tells a lot about the value of the screenshots that it takes careful inspection to find this error. I have played a lot of War3 recently and the difference is very noticeable in game, even with this GF4. Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - link#18 Its not a problem figuring out the graphs its just weird that he would choose that type of graph excluding FPS.
BTW I own a 5900U and a 9700pro.
I don't like people avoiding ps2.0 tests. My 5900 sucks at it. I paid too much for what I got in the 5900. I try to get a good bang for the buck. The 5900 is not. Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - link... Reply
DerekWilson - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkFirst off... Thanks Pete ;-) ...
Secondly, Anand and I both put a great deal of work into this article, and I am very glad to see the responses it has generated.
Many of the image quality issues from part 1 were due to rendering problems that couldn't be captured in a screen shot (like jerkiness in X2 and F1), or a lack of AA. For some of the tests, we just didn't do AA performance benchmarks if one driver or the other didn't do what it was supposed to. There were no apples to anything other than apples tests in this review. The largest stretch was X2 where the screen was jerky and the AA was subpar. But we definitly noted that.
TRAOD isn't a very high quality game, and certainly isn't the only DX9 (with PS2.0) test on the list. Yes, ATI beat NV in that bench. But its also true that ATI won most of the other benchmarks as well.
Anyway, thanks again for the feedback, sorry BF1942 couldn't make it in, and we'll be bring back a flight sim game as soon as we tweak it out.
J Derek Wilson Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkDidn't Gabe Newell complain about screen capture "issues" with the Nvidia 50.xx drivers that show better image quality in screenshots than actually shows up in game?
Anand spoke about image quality problems in almost every test in part 1, but i see almost nothing wrong with the screencaps in part 2.
Can you verify this Anand? Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkNo difference in IQ, huh? Am I the only person to notice an IQ difference between the AA+8xAF pics of Aquamark3?
It's funny how Anand and Derek did not comment on this. Maybe they missed it because they based their comparison off of those tiny images. Ah, so that's what the need of full-sized images are for?! Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkHow very balanced of you #30.
Let us be patient; Anand is asking questions on OUR behalf in order to REVEAL truth.
I'm focused on the questions and the answers. Where is your focus? Reply
AgaBooga - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - link#33, that's what came to my mind as soon as I read this article. I think that Anand may have just provided some input, done testing, or just edited it slightly... Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkThe IQ shots are not the best I could imagine.
Some of them are cropped out so that you can't see a lot of details: UT2003, Aquamark3, Wolfenstein.
Some of them are set up so that you wouldn't get any possible artifacts with texture filtering, because of the high camera angle: Warcraft3, C&C Generals.
The Tomb Raider, Aquamark and Wolf screenshots are also too dark to notice anything. And I don't see any sign of a DX9 shader in either the Halo or the TR shots, so we have no idea of DX9 image quality.
But kudos for all the testing you've done, must have been a lot of hard work. Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - link#30 ATI has not released performance drivers for a long time now and they already said don't hold your breath on those performance increases coming in the 3.8s either. The main focus since the 3.1s have mainly it seems been bug fixes with slight performance improvements in various games. 3.8 = more features and bug fixes with probably slight performance improvements here and there in specific games. Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkDerek probably wrote the whole article while Anand was behind him cracking his whip. So I dunno about this "supposed" two authors! Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkWould all the fanboys please take a deep breath or troll elsewhere? I swear to god some of you people will go out of your way to look for bias where there isn't any.
I own a 9800 Pro and I for one am glad that it seems like Nvidia has closed the gap considerably, their customers deserve it. Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkGreat review, I love the IQ shots. I too am waiting to see the 9600xt review though. Reply
AgaBooga - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkTo those of you mentioned Anand a few times, you should also note this was written by two authors. Or atleast worked on together by two authors, so you should try and understand that you may different "types" of responses and analyses (sp?) of similar results if they're done by different people. I think we should wait for the 3.8 Cat. article before we jump to too many conclusions. Reply
PKIte - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkThis is the way I take screen shots in final fantasy XI benchmark 2.
- Use Hypersnap-dx
- Enable directx capture in Hypersnap
- Change Hypersnap "Quick Save" settings to repeat capture every 5 seconds
- Launch Final Fantasy XI benchmark 2 menu
- When you click the "START" button press "Print Screen" once resolution changes.
Wow this is the biggest video card review I have ever read: Awesome!!
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - link>Right now NVIDIA is at a disadvantage; ATI's >hardware is much easier to code for and the >performance on Microsoft's HLSL compiler clearly >favors the R3x0 over the NV3x
ever heard from the ps2_a compiler target? Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkWasn't Anand allowed to use ShaderMark v2.0 for det. the pixel shader performace? Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linklol read this article take me a 1/2 hour. this article is great but it can be improved Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkwhy anand didnt review bf1942 :( Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkwhy is anand bashing Tomb raider
and whats up with PS 2.0 graph
why not just post the fps, makes it seem
like nvidia is beating Ati. Also why are beta drivers being tested with nvidia. Should have used
cat 3.8 for Radeon. Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkim still waiting that a site post a review for an 9600 XT Reply
Pete - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkOverall, a good read. Thanks, Derek and Anand. Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkim not biased towards either card. i myself own a 9800pro. what concerns me is the immaturity shown by other ATI card owners. you guys act like nvidia can never measure up to ATI (which is so untrue). there was none/little difference in the IQ and benchmark results (with few exceptions, but explanations were given for the most part). also keep in mind that the 9800xt specs are higher than the 5900/5950 and it still managed to get beat in some of the tests. anyway, good job nvidia. you guys are certainly headed in the right direction. i was a bit sad to see my card excluded though :( ... they said they'll benchmark the value cards soon...i hope to see mine there ;)
ps: i could be wrong about the specs, but i do remember anand saying the XT had higher memory bandwidth (which could've accounted for some performance differences).
all in all, a good review, ill be waiting for more updates. Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - link18, he says he saw it saw it, he doesnt know why it was there, there is no reason to exclude regular fps graphs, especially since people want to know the fps of this game, since it is the ONLY truly dx9 game in the entire suite Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkHey Anand did nvidias check arrive yet Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkHaha, yet again, we see fanATIcs (#10, #14) coming out of the woodworks to claim that Anandtech's review is either biased or NVIDIA is still cheating. lmao, losers!
And by the way #14, you're plain dumb if you couldn't figure out that the TR:AOD graphs were showing a percentage difference. Christ, read the review. Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkYou need to look at the FSAA each card empolys...go back and look again at the screenies, this time looking at all the jaggis on each card....especially in F1, it doesn't even look like nVidia is using FSAA....while on the ATI, it's smooth ......I don't think it's a driver comparison, just the fact that ATI FSAA is far better at doing the job....At least I think that's what he's talking about..hard to tell any IQ differences when the full size screenies are not working, but poor FSAA kinda jumps out at you (If your'e used to smooth FSAA)
Also worth noting, nVidia made great jumps in performance in DX9, but nothing that actually used PS2.0 shaders : ( Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - link#14 Blurred? Are you not wearing your glasses or something? Nice and sharp for me... Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkof course you do, you're a fanATIc... Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkI like the way he discounts Tomb raider. Saying it is just not a good game. Thats a matter of opinion. It almost seems like he trys to undermine that game before revealing any benches.
And the benches for that game are not done in FPS but on percentage lost on PS2.0.
On first inspection of the graphs it appears that Nvidia is leading in tombraider. But if you look at the blurred print on the graph it does say "lower is better" Very clever!
Why no FPS in that game?
Nice information in this review but it almost seems that he is going out of his way to excuse Nvidia.
I smell a rat in this review.
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - link#3, #7: If you take the screens into photoshop and observe the result of their 'difference', you'll see that there's a fairly significant difference between the 45's and 3.7's, but almost no difference whatsoever between the 52's and 3.7's. In most of those screenshots it's impossible to do this since the shots aren't neccessarily from the exact same position each time. Try the ut2k3 ones for example. Also these are jpeg's, so there'll be a little fuzz due to the differences in compression.
Also, if I need to take two screenshots into photoshop to be able to discern any difference between them, that's really saying alot. And since we can't refer to a reference software shot, it could be ati's driver that's off for all we know.
In any event I'm pleasantly surprised with nvidia. Their IQ has definitely caught up, and their performance is quickly improving. Hopefully the cat3.8's will pull a similar stunt. Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkNo he's just a "fanny"
AgaBooga - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkThey must have a reason for choosing those drivers. Anandtech has been around long enough for that :)
The reason is probably along the lines of when they started this benchmarking because they did soooo many games, resolutions, AA and AF levels, times the number of different cards, etc. That takes quite some time. Had they waited for the newer ATI drivers, it may have delayed this article one, or even two weeks till publishing. Also, they did mention they will do a followup articles with the new drivers, so patience is the key here. Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - link#8 seems like a fanboy himself Reply
dvinnen - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkwell #8, Nvidia was able to do it with the wonder driver, I dn't see why Ati can't Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkLOL, the ATI fanboys are already coming out of the woodwork. Listen #3 and #7, it's a fact, there is no IQ difference at all between the 50 Dets and the 3.7 CATs. And if you honestly believe you're going to see much of a difference with the CAT 3.8's....you're just stupid. Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkyea I agree with what #3 said..hardly any commentary on the IQ... and If I'm not mistaken, aren't the new cats going to be out tomorrow???? If so, you might as well do the whole thing over again... Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - link#3, go away you fanboy. There was absolutely no IQ difference between the CAT 3.7 and 52.14 drivers. Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linki'm sure intel will be happy to hear that you 'upgraded' your prescott to an FX. Reply
dvinnen - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkerrr, a lot of the piture links aren't wrking, like teh halo iq one and TR:AoD Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkUm...
Why was there nothing noting the difference between nVidia and ATI's in the IQ section? nVidia looks absolutely horrid compared to the ATI. Reply
AgaBooga - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linkI saw more opinions in this article leaning towards Nvidia, especially around the Tomb Raider benchmarks. More specifically, starting with the page regarding compilers. I liked this articles, but there could have been less opinionated viewpoints on this. Also, it might be better if we get names of authors with what they typed, so we know who typed what, because some of this sure didn't sound like something Mr. Shimpi has written in the past... Reply
Anonymous User - Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - linki'm still reading..............


text:
Stirrings Cocktail Mixers - Mojito
Yes I love Mojitos! But they are a pain to make! This is awesome that you can now buy it in a pre-made bottle!
Everyone loves a mojito. Except when it comes time to actually make the danm things. These mixes are awesome and easy.Tags: food, entertaining, drinks, martini, buffets, natural, drink mix, cocktails, ingredientsAdded 9 Years Ago from Stirrings

subset: commoncrawl


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Want to eat some FREE pancakes topped with Maple Syrup produced right on Ithaca College's Natural Lands? Non Timber Forest Products is hosting an open house of its Sugar Bush on April 12 from 11:00-3:00, and we will be giving samples of our Maple Syrup!
When people think of products from a forest, they naturally think of lumber. However, other plant and animal life within the forest can be harvested in an ethical and sustainable way. These products, known as Non Timber Forest Products (NTFP), are the focus of our class, and we produce and sell three of these NTFPs: maple syrup, Italian oyster mushrooms, and honey. The open house on April 12 will be showcasing our sugar bush, where we collect and boil our sap to make syrup. This is the same syrup we will be offering as samples with pancakes! So if you are interested in NTFPs, enjoy eating locally grown maple syrup, and love spending some time in the woods, you should check out our open house! Come for all or some of it; a shuttle service will be provided every hour from the Park School of Communication, and it will take you the short drive to the sugar bush and back. Our syrup will be available for purchase by cash or check if you simply can't get enough of it! If you have any questions, feel free to contact me at firstname.lastname@example.com. We are looking forward to seeing you there!
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Nominations for the 10th Annual SPIKE Video Game Awards were announced today and we're happy to share that both Dishonored and Dawnguard received nominations. Huge congrats to both Arkane Studios and Bethesda Game Studios for this well-deserved honor.
Here's the nomination breakdown:
Game of the Year
Best XBOX 360 Game
Best PS3 Game
Best Action Adventure Game
Best Graphics
Arkane Studios
Studio of the Year
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
Best DLC – Dawnguard
See all the nominees and learn about the advisory panel behind the awards at Spike.com. Then tune in for the VGAs, hosted by Samuel L. Jackson, on Saturday, December 7th at 9 PM ET.


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WINTER PARK, Fla. - Saint Leo goalkeeper Laura Carstens has been named Sunshine State Conference Defensive Player of the Week, for the period ending September 25, 2011.
Carstens had an unbelievable week for Saint Leo, posting a 2-0 record and a 0.00 goals-against-average. In addition, the Horsens, Denmark native registered five saves in a pair of south region wins, including an upset of the nation's top team, Florida Tech.
In two starts, the 'keeper posted one shutout and totaled 158 minutes in net.
In her first match of the week, the freshman faced her toughest challenge of the season in top-ranked Florida Tech. Five outstanding Carstens' saves kept the Lions in contention until a Dari Alcantara header gave the Lions a 1-0 advantage, a lead Carstens helped preserve. In total, she faced 13 shots in 90 minutes of action en route to her first shutout of the season.
She kept the Lions unbeaten in her final start of the week. Playing 69 minutes, Carstens and the Lions defensive unit allowed only one shot as Saint Leo took out Alabama-Huntsville, 3-1. e the Lions a 1-0 advantage, a lead Carstens helped preserve. In total, she faced 13 shots in 90 minutes of action en route to her first shutout of the season.
Carstens and the rest of the women's soccer team continue their 2011 campaign on Thursday, September 29, when they travel to St. Petersburg, Fla. to take on Eckerd College. Kickoff against the Tritons is set for 7:00 p.m. For the latest news, updates and information on Carstens and the nationally-ranked Lions, visit SaintLeoLions.com.


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A FAIR is being held to raise awareness of different housing options for residents in Yeovil.
Officers at South Somerset District Council are urging residents to attend to see the different housing products that are available to individuals, couples and families.
It will be held on Monday, April 28 from 2-7pm at the Octagon Theatre and residents of South Somerset are able to pop along and visit exhibitors.
Free and open to anyone, exhibitors will be able to give you guidance; whether you wish to own you own home or rent an affordable home.
You may be a first-time buyer, moving up the property ladder, downsizing or wanting to own your own home through a Shared Ownership property, whatever your circumstances there will be advice available for you.
Jo Calvert, housing development officer at South Somerset District Council, said: "More than 200 South Somerset residents attended the 2013 housing event, where we had 23 exhibitors on that day.
"This year we have over 30 exhibitors booked who are able to offer a wide range of advice to residents. Come along and see what options are available to you in South Somerset."


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Based on the book by Gayle Forman, R.J Cutler's "If I Stay" is really two movies in one. The first is about the blossoming love between a shy cello player and a cool, leather jacket-wearing hunk in a rock band. The second concerns the same cello player Mia (Chloe Grace Moretz) in a coma after a car accident kills her entire family. While in the coma, Mia's soul can walk around out of body, and she must decide whether she wants to stay with her leather jacket-wearing fellow Adam (Jamie Blackley) or pass on to the next world.
While the teen romance angle isn't very compelling, it's the supernatural tearjerker element that throws the movie into extreme sappiness and stupidity.
Mia is your typical quiet, good girl who mostly keeps to herself, having only one loyal friend. She's a classical-music nerd — she has a sticker in her school locker that says, "I Heart Yo Yo Ma" — and is self-conscious about it. However, her musical talent catches the ear — and eye — of older boy Adam.
With his rugged good looks and laid-back attitude, Adam is a typical teen-girl fantasy boyfriend. They fall in love, and everything seems to be going great until…bam! A family drive on a snowy road turns tragic.
Mia is left an orphan and in a coma and, through flashbacks, we're told by her out-of-body soul of her backstory.
The teen romance flashbacks aren't nearly as bad as I thought they would be: It's more that they're just so flatline and dull. And for a movie about teenagers, the situation feels far too neat and tidy. Mia has a cool boyfriend who sees her for who she is, and she has two hip, ex-rocker parents (played by Mireille Enos and Joshua Leonard) who are very supportive of her and give the perfect advice when it's needed.
The only conflict there is the usual boyfriend/girlfriend ups and downs — both Mia and Adam want to pursue their musical dreams — and Mia moping around, afraid that's she's not good enough for Adam.
The flashbacks feel underwhelming and derivative. Shauna Cross' screenplay just sort of hums along, hitting the usual beats. The dialogue, for the most part, is poorly written. And, yet, despite these flaws, the flashbacks in "If I Stay" are tolerable, mainly because of Moretz. The 17-year-old "Kick-Ass" actress is clearly above this material but does a surprisingly good job at playing the shy, nerd girl.
However, "If I Stay" runs into its biggest problems during the "Mia in a coma" segment. We're treated to an endless barrage of teary-eyed friends and family members having one-way conversations with Mia's comatose body, while Mia's soul watches the action. If there was any kind of subtly employed in the flashbacks, none can be found here. And Cutler moves this section along at a snail's pace, prolonging the inevitable ending.
With a better script and more energetic direction, the flashback scenes in "If I Stay" could have actually made a decent teen-romance picture by themselves. Moretz is good here, as are as most of the supporting cast. Even Blackley isn't unwatchable.
Fans of the book and the genre will be satisfied. For the rest of us, though, "If I Stay" is yet another lackluster film to come out in this mostly lackluster movie month.


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Great Bend Self Storage Units
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12 Monkeys
I'm running somewhere tomorrow. It's going to be beautiful. I can't wait.
Poor baby
The Greatest of All Time
Yes you do...if you have time to drive a bit north for a good hill run. I used to bike on these roads when I lived in Arlington Heights. Here's a decent out & back. There are some decent hills around Cary as well, and it's a little shorter drive for you.
Nice course!
That's about a 30 minute drive for me at most. Might have to seriously look into that. Thanks!
Run a lot.
Spend enough time in PWP so that you know where the hills are, how long they are, and how stupid your decision was to sign up for the marathon.
Speaking of which, Jeff, when can I expect your registration?
The Logic of Long Distance
The OP's question made it sound like he was looking to run it well. So that's how I answered.
If you just wanna finish, you're fine. Personally, I think you've got to work up to 60+ mpw to run a decent marathon (when I get serious about BQing, I think it'll take a few 90-100 mile weeks). And for the Monkey, they better be mostly hills.
That doesn't mean you can't have a fine time running the Monkey with a good 40 mpw base. (Of course, you might be hurting more ...)
Oh Mighty Wing
It would also be nice to not have to walk during the race.
Lactate threshold (LT) runs - well, that's pretty technical, kind of VO2 Maxish, so maybe we shouldn't discuss these kind of things. But for me it means if I don't train hard enough to get my HR up around 172 range for a sustained amount of time, my body refuses to cooperate and causes me to throw up.
I'd like to NOT throw up during or after the race, and I'd like to be able to enjoy some recovery beer.
It would also be nice to not have to walk during the race.
That's a good one. I assume you're pretty fast if that's your goal. You'll have to ask Jeff what goes on with the sub-3 pack up there. Maybe those guys sprint up golf course hill at mile 23.
Is that what LT stands for? I thought it was lactose tolerant.
I'm familiar with the term. I've just never heard it used to describe a "minimum necessary heartrate to prevent puking." That's definitely new one.
So at 171 you start puking? I'm fascinated.
That's a good one. I assume you're pretty fast if that's your goal. You'll have to ask Jeff what goes on with the sub-3 pack up there. Maybe those guys sprint up golf course hill at mile 23.
But back in the 3:30-4:30 range, I didn't see many non-walkers. Actually, I never saw one.
It doesn't seem the best strategy. For you it might be, since your heartrate might plummet to 171. And then all Hell would break loose, and monkeys are attracted to vomit.
JK. I will not walk at Monkey. Only the water stations.
You can bet on it.


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Rodney's Deli & Pizzeria
Yorba Linda, CA 92886
- Mon-Fri 9am-8pm
- $
- Delivery, Kid Friendly, Takeout, Wheelchair accessible
- Dinner, Lunch
- Beer/Wine
- No Parking
- Reservations Not Necessary
Get the Things to Do Newsletter
Sign up for our weekly guide to events in Orange County, and never be bored again. With suggestions for every day of the week, our recommendations will keep you busy on any budget.
More Deli Restaurants in Yorba Linda
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No one said sausage was health food, but if you're in the mood to down a few cold ones by the bar...Deli
This is the only Soviet-centric business for the local Russian community, and the three stout wom...Deli
It's one of the more surprising liquor stores in central county-a seeming ampm rip-off from the o...Deli
Sausage is but one appetizing aspect of Globe European Delicatessen, which has been hawking Germa...Deli
Only the Italians remain from Anaheim's Old Europe guard, and they're the ones who keep the busin...Bakery
Continental Deli has been in La Habra for more than a decade, selling sausages and dense meat cyl...Deli


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Buoyed by 13% revenue growth in its Americas segment, the office-furniture company swung to a profit of $0.19 a share in its February quarter. Backlog rose.
For the second time in three years, federal regulators rejected the bank's plan to increase its dividends and buybacks. The bank's not yet strong enough, say the feds.
Baxter International
The health-care company said it plans to separate into two companies: one focused on developing drugs and the other focused on making medical products.
Caesars Entertainment
Struggling with a hea...


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Our website 1TM.com has a couple IE issues.
First is a drop down menu issue when you use the drop down the text warps... Example: http://www.1tm.com/fixing/IEDROP.jpg
Second are these tiny white space on the bottom of the images... example: http://www.1tm.com/fixing/IESPACE.jpg
Any help would be much appreciated.
First is a drop down menu issue when you use the drop down...Hi,
That problem got started by the float on the .products ul li , a float without a width will shrinkwrap to the width of it's content.
Then the problem got compounded by floating all the child elements too, the only one that needed a float was the img
Remove the floats from the LI, H2, and P and add text-align:left to the LI
.products ul li {
border-bottom:1px solid #CCCCCC;
/*float:left;/*---- remove this ---*/
padding:10px 0;
text-align:left;/*--- add this ---*/
.products h2 {
/*float:left;/*---- remove this ---*/
padding:2px 0 3px;
.products p {
/*float:left;/*---- remove this ---*/
.products img {
float:left;
Second are these tiny white space on the bottom of the imagesWhen using images in the html like that IE will give you whitespace at the bottom in it's default state of vertical-align:baseline
The fix is to set it as vertical-align:bottom or change the img to display:blockSet up a new selector to target that img and style it or better yet make them background images positioned at the bottom of the parent element with some bottom padding to show the image.
Thanks Rayzur
the warped text works in IE now but the menu its a little longer then in every other browser. Also the tiny white space vertical-align:bottom and display:block does not work. Could you possibly give me an example?
Thanks again!
Also the tiny white space vertical-align:bottom and display:block does not work.I didn't notice you had them nested a mile deep in tables like that
You may have missed the whole point of CSS, take a look at all the inline styles and tables your using on that hosting plans page.
Now the content in your left column IS table data so that is fine. Everything in that right column does not really qualify as table data.
You might try setting a class on the images causing the whitespace, that way you can target them without effecting all the other images in your tables.
You also have IE in quirks mode because of an incomplete doctype, it is missing the referring url.
W3C QA - Recommended list of Doctype declarations
Fixing the DTD might help the img problem, not sure but it needs to be fixed just the same.
Wow lol putting the DTD makes everything all over the place.
Any way to fix it in the current mode?
That's actually a good indicator of problems it's causing while in quirks mode.
Make a version of that page with the DTD correction and post the link so we can see what it does.
Unless a table expert comes along with some trick that I'm not aware of the only thing I can suggest is putting a class on the problem images so you can target them only as I mentioned above.
Which Doctype declaration should I use?
We've been through this before and you can't use a standards mode doctype because it breaks your whole page as it is built on quirks mode.:) There were just too many bugs to fix (e.g. you have no units on your inline styles which mean in standards mode they will be treated as zero).
If you remember way back I (and others since) gave you a standards based version right at the start but you had gone too far with this design to change and now you are stuck with what you have I'm afraid.
Note that the links to the images in your first post seem to be redirecting to your front page so I can't see which images you are looking at specifically.
The links should work again I fixed the example 1 (menu still showing longer in IE.) but still have issues with example 2
Example 1: http://www.1tm.com/fixing/IEDROP.jpg
Example 2: http://www.1tm.com/fixing/IESPACE.jpg
A quick and dirty fix would be to add a negative margin to the bottom of the table to soak up the gap.


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SWINDON Town's second-year scholars will find out whether or not they have earned professional contracts at the County Ground in the "next two or three weeks", according to manager Mark Cooper.
Four members of the club's academy are waiting to hear if they have done enough to secure a future in Swindon beyond the duration of their scholarships. Defenders Salvyn Kisitu, Curtis Da Costa and Matty Jones and midfielder Liam Walsh will all discover their fates by the end of next month.
Walsh and Jones have both enjoyed being part of the senior Town squad on matchdays, while Kisitu spent a spell on loan at Banbury United earlier this term to gain relevant experience.
Cooper did not indicate which players may or may not get pro deals, but he stressed that telling any young player that their time at a club is up is "the worst part of the job".
"We've had meetings," he told the Advertiser. "We're monitoring the second-year scholars and they'll be getting told pretty soon. It will be in the next two or three weeks.
"That's the worst thing – telling the young boys that they're not going to be kept on – that's probably the worst part of the job.
"You have to be honest with them and tell them. In spells they've done okay but you're not looking at the team coming through when you're producing players and developing players, you're looking for one or two nuggets."
Meanwhile, decisions are also due on the first-year pros currently on Town's books whose contracts expire at the end of the season.
Connor Waldon, Alex Ferguson, Aaron Oakley and Mark Francis are all hoping for new deals, with Cooper saying: "The first-year pros, and the majority are out on loan, need decisions made about them as well.
"They may not be ready yet and they may need a couple of years playing out on loan at places like Gloucester or Chippenham to get them ready for when we need them."


text:
Manually Versus Digitally Fabricated Removable Partial Dentures
Recruitment status was: Recruiting
- Full Text View
- Tabular View
- No Study Results Posted
- Disclaimer
- How to Read a Study Record
In the clinical trial, the Computer Aided Design/Computer Aided Manufacturing (CAD/CAM) fabricated removable partial dentures (RPD's) are evaluated on casts and clinically compared with a traditional fabricated RPD for 50 consecutive patients.
During 5 years the patients are in a follow-up program in order to judge long-term stability, loss of retention, fractures, … of both groups of dentures.
|Partially Edentulous Patients
|Device: CAD/CAM fabricated RPD's Device: traditional fabricated RPD's
|Phase 4
|Study Type:
|Study Design:
|Allocation: Non-Randomized
Intervention Model: Parallel Assignment
Masking: Double (Participant, Investigator)
Primary Purpose: Treatment
|Official Title:
|A Study on the Fit and Behaviour of Computer-aided Design and Rapid Prototyping Fabrication of Removable Partial Dentures
- fit of framework [ Time Frame: 9 months ]After casting "fit of the framework" between two identical reomvable partial dentures (same design, looks, material...) fabricated in a different way.
- placement of RPD + control of placement [ Time Frame: 3 to 5 days ]There will be a placement of a removable partial denture, and after 3 to 5 days, this placement will be re-checked as a follow up.
- re-evaluation of the RPD placement [ Time Frame: every 6 months, for 5 years ]Every 6 months, for 5 years, the RPD placement will be followed up.
|Estimated Enrollment:
|Study Start Date:
|June 2011
|Estimated Study Completion Date:
|December 2015
|Estimated Primary Completion Date:
|September 2015 (Final data collection date for primary outcome measure)
|Assigned Interventions
Experimental: CAD/CAM fabricated dentures
group receiving Computer-Aided Design/Computer-Aided Manufacturing (CAD/CAM)fabricated removable partial dentures (double blind)
Device: CAD/CAM fabricated RPD's
group receiving Computer-Aided Design/Computer-Aided Manufacturing (CAD/CAM)fabricated removable partial dentures (double blind)
Active Comparator: traditional fabricated dentures
group receiving traditional fabricated dentures (double blind)
Device: traditional fabricated RPD's
group receiving traditional fabricated dentures (double blind)
Detailed Description:
The classic removable partial denture (RPD) is a denture fabricated in CrCo using the "lost wax" technique. This hand-made way of working makes the final result vulnerable, not always predictable and not reproducible.
Computer Aided Design/Computer Aided Manufacturing (CAD/CAM) techniques have been introduced in dentistry, particularly to fabricate crowns and bridges (fixed partial dentures). There is little research in the field of removable partial framework fabrication. This may be in part be attributed to the lack of suitable dedicated software.
In the technical part of the study, existing software and hardware is adjusted to maximize the automation in the application of computer-aided technologies to surveying of digital casts and pattern design and the subsequent production of sacrificial patterns using removable partial (RP) technologies.
In the clinical trial the CAD/CAM fabricated RPD's are evaluated on casts and clinically and compared with a traditional fabricated RPD for 50 consecutive patients. For every patient, two RPDs are made in the same material (CrCo).The clinical parameters (fit, stability, retention, support, friction) are double blind evaluated by two dentists. At the end of the treatment, the patient can choose one of them.
Both RPDs are fabricated in the same time frame for the fabrication of the "classic" RPD. There are for the patient no extra sessions scheduled.
During 5 years the patients are in a follow-up program in order to judge long-term stability, loss of retention, fractures, … of both groups of dentures.
Hypothesis1: CAD/CAM fabricated RPD's can meet the clinical standards for RPD's.
Hypothesis 2: Dentists do not observe a difference between the classic and CAD/CAM fabricated RPD.
Hypothesis 3: Patients do not see/feel any difference between the classic and CAD/CAM fabricated RPD.
|Ages Eligible for Study:
|18 Years and older (Adult, Senior)
|Sexes Eligible for Study:
|Accepts Healthy Volunteers:
Inclusion Criteria:
- patients in need of a classic removable partial denture (RPD)
Please refer to this study by its ClinicalTrials.gov identifier: NCT01191073
|Contact: Lieve Van Zeghbroeck, MD, PhD
|University Hospital Ghent
|Ghent, Belgium, 9000
|Contact: Lieve Van Zeghbroeck, MD, PhD firstname.lastname@example.com
|Principal Investigator: Lieve Van Zeghbroeck, MD, PhD
|Principal Investigator:
|Lieve Van Zeghbroeck, MD, PhD
|University Ghent
|Responsible Party:
|University Ghent
|ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier:
|NCT01191073 History of Changes
|Other Study ID Numbers:
|Study First Received:
|August 26, 2010
|Last Updated:
|December 4, 2014
Keywords provided by University Ghent:
Additional relevant MeSH terms:
Mouth, Edentulous
Mouth Diseases
Stomatognathic Diseases
Tooth Diseases
ClinicalTrials.gov processed this record on August 23, 2017


text:
Two long-standing WEIU productions return for new seasons in September!
More details available soon!
American ExperienceRipley: Believe It or Not | Wednesday, 8 p.m.
LeRoy Robert Ripley rose to fame during the Great Depression, transforming himself from a skinny, bucktoothed boy into an entertainer who mesmerized the nation with his razzle-dazzle blend of homespun Americana, colorful exotica and freakish oddities. Over three decades, his "Believe It or Not!" franchise grew into an entertainment empire, expanding from newspapers to every form of "new media" in the 20th century: radio, film and, ultimately, television. At the center of it all was Ripley, whose obsession with the odd and keen eye for the curious made him one of the richest men in the country. Americans not only loved his bizarre fare, but were fascinated by the man himself; the eccentric, globetrotting playboy became an unlikely national celebrity. This is the story of the man who popularized the iconic phrase, and proof of why we still can?t resist his challenge to "Believe it - or not!"
The Great British Baking ShowBatter | Wednesday, 9 p.m.
Join nine bakers for the first-ever batter week. They prepare a British favorite that demands a uniform bake across the batch; a technical challenge that requires a perfect pastry, sweet filling and delicate icing; and a showstopping Spanish classic.
They Were Our FathersThursday | 9 p.m.
Gold Star sons and daughters honor their dads on Father's Day at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington, D.C.
Notice to WEIU Viewers with DirecTV Service
We're reaching out to you today because of an urgent issue that is impacting your ability to view WEIU programs. DirecTV has recently relocated one of its satellite receivers to an AT&T building in Decatur, which was formerly located in Springfield.
Normally, this would not be an issue, as Decatur is still in our market as defined by the FCC. However, WEIU signals do not reach this location in Decatur with the minimum quality required by the DirecTV.
As a result, DirecTV has dropped WEIU from its satellite carriage — and viewers who have previously been able to receive our unique programming like Being Well, City Spotlight, The Paw Report, NewsWatch can now no longer watch these programs at home.
As part of a must-carry agreement, DirecTV is required to fund any expenses we would incur in providing them our signal if this relocation happened before a normal renewal cycle (which it has) ... unfortunately, this doesn't seem to be happening.
This is why we need your help. Please reach out to DirecTV and request that it carries WEIU — let them know how important it is for this channel to come back in your viewing area. Please call DirecTV at 1-855-802-3473 and let them know that WEIU is an educational programming asset in your community and you can't afford to lose it.
Sandy Roberts - Champaign, IL
"I enjoy watching Heartland Highways because the two women on that show take you all over the state. You always learn a lot by watching that show."
WEIU membership is important to Sandy, and you can also be a proud member! Also, send us a message and let us know what WEIU means to you!
Judy - Mattoon, IL
"Being an avid dog lover, I've learned much from the veterinarian guests you've had on The Paw Report as well as about several animal rescue organizations I didn't previously know existed. I hope WEIU will continue airing this program. Another of my favorites is Heartland Highways! I'm always wanting to see more interesting facts and video about the communities you visit. Thank you WEIU-TV."
WEIU membership is important to Judy, and you can also be a proud member! Also, send us a message and let us know what WEIU means to you!
Jana Johnson - Membership Manager
When Did You Start at WEIU? August 2006
What Does WEIU Mean to You? Local and national family-friendly radio and television.
Favorite Show on WEIU-TV: Hands down ... Heartland Highways! From the first time I watched, I was hooked; it takes me places in Illinois that I never knew existed. FYI: The hosts of HH (Lori Casey and Kate Pleasant) are as nice in person as they are on the show!
What have you learned while working at WEIU? That local is so important! WEIU has the opportunity to inform and involve the people who live in and around Central Illinois. The staff at WEIU take our jobs very seriously and we believe in communication with our viewers.
Why should someone become a member of WEIU? This is an easy question. If you value family friendly television and radio, then you should be honored to support your local television station. Where else can you have such amazing programming? Turn to WEIU-TV to enjoy educational children's programming, travel around the world and discover music, dance, food and entertainment. In addition to that, tune in to stay informed on what's going on around our community with a LIVE news broadcast Monday-Friday at 5:30 p.m., and watch our local programs such as Heartland Highways, The Paw Report, Four Rivers Ag Report, Being Well, @ Issue, and Hobbies, Crafts and Collectibles. The WEIU radio station is Hit-Mix 88.9. Most days there is LIVE on-air talent from 6 a.m. until 11 p.m. Hit-Mix plays the widest variety of the biggest and best artists, and they play a little bit of country as well!
Is WEIU as important to you as it is to Jana? Become a member today! Also, send us a message and let us know what WEIU means to you!
We love to hear from you!
If I wasn't able to watch WEIU, I don't know what I would do. I would most likely throw my television in the trash! I will continue to support good television and WEIU is GREAT TV.
-- Janet, Tuscola
Is WEIU as important to you as it is to Janet? Become a member today! Also, send us a message and let us know what WEIU means to you!
Andrew Libman - Our Story Bonus Feature
Andrew Libman talks about being a part of a family business at the Libman Company.
Andrew would love for you to tune in to Effingham: This is Our Story on Thursday, Oct. 2, at 7 p.m. We hope you'll join us!
Allen Yoder - Our Story Bonus Feature
Allen Yoder tells about the tradition of Grand Marshalls in the Arcola Broomcorn Festival.
Allen would love for you to tune in to Effingham: This is Our Story on Thursday, Oct. 2, at 7 p.m. We hope you'll join us!


text:
Did you know?
The uKhahlamba-Drakensberg Park World Heritage Site in KwaZulu-Natal is an open-air mountain museum where more than 30 000 examples of Bushman (San) rock art may be viewed on the walls of caves and overhangs.
The fascinating, multi-cultural tapestry of KwaZulu-Natal's past has been beautifully captured in a host of dedicated cultural museums scattered across the length and breadth of the province.
The Campbell Collection in Durban features 18th and 19th century Cape furniture, artwork and indigenous cultural artefacts, while a window on the history and culture of 20th century Durban, with a focus on the Freedom Struggle, is showcased at the KwaMuhle Museum in the city centre.
Durban's early settlements are replicated in the Old Court House Museum, while the Old House Museum provides an example of the architecture and furnishings of the Victorian era. Both are in the Durban city centre.
Eshowe's Vukani Museum exhibits Zulu arts and crafts, while KwaBhekithunga houses a Zulu village and the Zululand Historical Museum, set up in an old fort, showcases Zulu culture and the lives of early Norwegian missionaries.
Dumazulu Traditional Village in Hluhluwe is a living museum where traditional Zulu dancing and cultural craftwork are demonstrated, and the Zulu king Dingane is honoured at the Mgungundlovu Museum.
The history of the Griqua people and their trek from Phillipolis to Kokstad to found the town is chronicled at the East Griqualand Museum in Kokstad.
Apart from being an acclaimed research centre, the Natal Museum in Pietermaritzburg houses a significant collection of fauna, San art and African cultural artefacts in a series of compelling displays.
Archaeology, Zulu culture and King Cetshwayo's Ondini residence are the focus of the KwaZulu-Natal Cultural Museum in Ulundi.
Visit a Voortrekker heritage site in the Voortrekker town of Weenen at the Weenen Museum where memorabilia have been preserved in a building dating back to the 1840s.
Groutville on the north coast near Stanger is home to the Luthuli Museum created in the home once inhabited by Struggle icon Chief Albert Luthuli.
Finally, an excellent library resource on the Anglo-Boer War and ancient agricultural paraphernalia are some of the attractions at the Winterton Museum in Winterton.
The province has many more museums not dedicated solely to cultural heritage. Find a list of these in the planning information.
Travel tips & Planning info
Who to contact
KwaZulu-Natal Museum Service
Tel: +27 (0)33 341 9900
South African Museums Association
Tel: +27 (0)21 461 2315
How to get here
These museums are scattered across the province, from the cities of Durban and Pietermaritzburg to the Midlands and further afield. Contact the KwaZulu-Natal Museum Service for directions to each.
Best time to visit
Some of the smaller museums are closed over weekends or only open on request, so check before you plan your trip.
Tours to do
Many tour operators in the KwaZulu-Natal region offer excellent Battlefield and township tours, while Shakaland tours and Literary Tours take place in and around Durban.
Get around
Hiring your own vehicle is best if you wish to see a large number of the museums mentioned, but historical and cultural tour packages often include many of the better-known museums.
What will it cost
Entry is free to most of the museums mentioned.


text:
Additional Information
Wholesale Military Type GI ECWCS Neck GaitersColor: Black, Foliage Green, Brown, Sand Tan,
Wholesale Military Scarves & Neck Wear
Ear protectors are intended to be worn for extra warmth on ears and protection from the cold. Cold weather headbands have a curved shape that provides complete ear coverage. A winter headband keeps your ears warm without the need for a bulky hat. There easy to travel with and can be carried anywhere. We also offer ECWCS (extreme cold weather clothing system) neck protectors. ECWCS are designed to maintain adequate environmental protection in temperatures ranging between +40 to -60 degrees Fahrenheit (approximately +4 and -51 degrees Celsius). Scarves and neck wear are great for cold weather activities. A popular material for military scarves is wool. Wool has the power to readily absorb and give off moisture. It can absorb moisture up to one-third of its own weight. Synthetic fibers can only absorb 2-3 percent of moisture before they begin to feel wet. Wool is harder to ignite than most synthetic and cotton fibers used in equivalent products (higher ignition temperature); it has lower rate of flame spread, low heat release, and low heat of combustion; doesn't melt or drip; forms a char which is insulating and self-extinguishes. Wool is static resistant as the retention of moisture within the fabric prevents a build up of static electricity. Woolen garments are much less likely to spark or cling to the body. Balaclava is headwear that can be worn several different ways, some ways it can be worn; is covering the whole head exposing only the eye area, it can be worn exposing the entire face, it can be worn around the neck as a scarf, and it can be worn as a cap. The balaclava can be seen worn by Special Forces such as SWAT, National Security Guards and SAS. The Balaclava is also widely known as a ski mask in the United States. The balaclava is a versatile headwear that will protect the face and neck from cold conditions. Military Scarves and Neck Wear are also known as military winter fleece warmers, army camouflage headbands, winter skiing windbreakers fashion, men's black balaclavas, motorcycle face hole mask clothing, women's warming attire, etc. Military Scarves and Neck Wear are commonly misspelled as balaklavas, etc.
Please contact us for special low pricing for wholesale bulk orders and large quantities quotes for Military Type GI ECWCS Neck Gaiters. Shop online to purchase and buy the Military Type GI ECWCS Neck Gaiters on sale at the cheapest and lowest price at our new york army navy store. Free shipping on Military Type GI ECWCS Neck Gaiters. Galaxy Army Navy is your online military store and army navy store for tactical clothing and gear.
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