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Board of Supervisors Adopts Amendments to Chesapeake Bay Preservation Ordinance
Office of Public Affairs
12000 Government Center Parkway, Suite 551
Fairfax, VA 22035-0065
July 8, 2003
Fairfax County Board of Supervisors Adopts
Amendments to Chesapeake Bay Preservation Ordinance
The Fairfax County Board of Supervisors adopted proposed amendments to the Chesapeake Bay Preservation Ordinance during their regularly scheduled meeting today. The original Chesapeake Bay Preservation Ordinance was adopted 10 years ago and the amendments to the ordinance are now being mandated by revisions to the state's Chesapeake Bay Preservation Area Designation and Management Regulations.
The Chesapeake Bay Local Assistance Board adopted amendments to the Chesapeake Bay Preservation Area Designation and Management Regulations on Dec. 10, 2001, with an effective date of March 1, 2002. Some local jurisdictions were given a March 1, 2003, deadline to implement the amendments as directed by the state. The deadline was later extended to Dec. 31, 2003, by the Chesapeake Bay Local Assistance Board. Fairfax County has been considering the amendments since January 2003. The Planning Commission held a public hearing on Jan. 15. Since that time, meetings were held with the Planning Commission Environment Committee and the Environmental Quality Advisory Council and a second public hearing was held on April 30. On May 7 the Planning Commission recommended that the Board of Supervisors adopt the proposed amendments to the Chesapeake Bay Preservation Ordinance.
The Board of Supervisors adopted amendments to Chapter 101 (Subdivision Ordinance), Chapter 104 (Erosion and Sedimentation Control), Chapter 112 (Zoning Ordinance) and Chapter 118 (Chesapeake Bay Preservation Ordinance) of The Code of the County of Fairfax, Virginia and to the Public Facilities Manual: Implementation of Revisions to the Chesapeake Bay Preservation Designation and Management Regulations (9 VAC 10-20 et.seq.).
The amendments adopted today will become effective later this year upon
adoption by the Board of Supervisors of an amended Chesapeake Bay
Preservation Area map (currently scheduled for Nov. 17, 2003), showing
the location of Resource Protection Areas (RPAs) as defined under the
amended code. The maps are not required, but are provided by the county
as a benefit to homeowners and other interested citizens.
Interim guidance maps showing the locations of RPAs are available on the
county's Web site at www.fairfaxcounty.gov/dpwes/homepage.htm.
The maps display the boundaries of the existing Resource Protection Areas
adopted by the Board in 1993, the boundaries of RPAs based on the
completed field studies to identify perennial streams and the estimated
boundaries of RPAs for areas where field studies will be conducted this
summer and fall. The online maps will be updated every two months until
all the field studies are complete.
The maps display the general locations of RPA boundaries for planning purposes and the actual limits may be further refined by detailed field studies conducted at the time a plan is submitted to obtain a permit or develop a property.
A Policy for Treatment of Approved and Pending Plans of Development was also adopted and provides that plans of development that are approved as of the effective date of the amended ordinance or filed within 60 days of adoption, demonstrate due diligence, and are subsequently approved and do not fully comply with the amended ordinance will not be subject to the exceptions review process but shall comply to the extent possible with the amended ordinance. The Fairfax County Department of Public Works and Environmental Services will determine during the plan review process that such plans meet the requirements of the adopted policy.
Frequently Asked Questions
To assist homeowners and others interested in the impact of the ordinance amendments, the following information is provided.
What is the Chesapeake Bay Preservation Ordinance?
The Virginia General Assembly enacted the Chesapeake Bay Preservation Act in 1988. The Act requires local governments to include water quality protection measures in their zoning and subdivision ordinances and in their comprehensive plans. In 1993, Fairfax County adopted the Chesapeake Bay Preservation Ordinance to protect environmentally sensitive lands know as Chesapeake Bay Preservation Areas. The most sensitive of these are called Resource Protection Areas (RPAs). Fairfax County has adopted amendments to the Chesapeake Bay Preservation Ordinance to comply with recent changes to the state's Chesapeake Bay Preservation Area Designation and Management Regulations (9 VAC 10-20 et. seq.).
What are Resource Protection Areas and buffers?
Resource Protection Areas (RPAs) are the corridors of environmentally sensitive land that lie alongside or near the shorelines of streams, rivers and other waterways. In their natural condition, RPAs protect water quality. RPAs filter pollutants out of stormwater runoff, reduce the volume of stormwater runoff, prevent erosion and perform other important biological and ecological functions.
RPAs shall include any land characterized by one or more of the following features:
(1) a tidal wetland;
(2) a tidal shore;
(3) a water body with perennial flow;
(4) a nontidal wetland connected by surface flow and contiguous to a tidal wetland or water body with perennial flow;
(5) a buffer area that includes any land within a major floodplain or any land within 100 feet of a feature listed in (1) (4).
The difference between the current language and the amended language is
the replacement of "tributary streams" with "water bodies
with perennial flow." This change was mandated by the state and is
responsible for the expansion of the RPAs.
How will RPAs be measured?
In adopting the amendments to the ordinance, the Board of Supervisors has allowed two different methods of measurement of the width of perennial streams which provides flexibility to the homeowners or developer in determining the extent of RPAs. The width of a perennial stream can be determined either by measuring from bank to bank or from ordinary high water mark to ordinary high water mark. Also, homeowners and developers can use one method for one set of site plans submitted and another method for another set for the same property.
How will this affect my property?
RPAs generally are areas into which development may not encroach. In order to maintain the functional value of the RPA buffer, indigenous vegetation may be removed, subject to approval by the county, from a buffer area only to provide for reasonable sight lines, access paths, general woodlot management and habitat management. Noxious weeds and dead, diseased, or dying trees or shrubbery may be removed provided that where they are removed, they are replaced with other native vegetation that is equally effective in retarding runoff, preventing erosion and filtering nonpoint source pollution from runoff. The removal of indigenous vegetation to create lawns is not allowed.
However, the county's ordinance includes protections both for existing vacant lots that were created prior to the effective date of the ordinance (July 1, 1993) or the amendments as applicable and for lots that are developed with existing homes. These protections allow a new home or an addition to be constructed on such lots through an administrative waiver.
For those lots that have areas of RPA on them, the ordinance provides relief from the full effects of the RPA restrictions through the administrative waiver provisions that allow minor additions of up to 1,000 sq. ft. of new impervious area in the RPA for homes constructed prior to the effective date of the ordinance. The state regulations on which the county's ordinance is based do not permit detached structures to be treated as minor additions. The construction of detached structures in the RPA is still possible, but would be subject to an exception process requiring a public hearing. The ordinance also protects existing structures and uses in the RPA. Such structures and uses (including lawns and gardens and other maintained landscaping) can continue and be maintained but may not be expanded unless a waiver or exception is granted. Also, if a home were to be destroyed by fire or other casualty loss, it could be rebuilt.
Are fences allowed within an RPA?
Fences are permitted in the RPA without an exception or waiver subject to compliance with certain design requirements that collectively maintain the functional value of the buffer. Fences should be designed so that they do not inhibit or alter surface flow (i.e. water must be able to flow under and through the fence unimpeded so that sheet flow conditions are maintained) and vegetation may only be removed to provide for the actual placement of the fence. Where vegetation is removed it must be replaced with other vegetation that is equally effective in retarding runoff, preventing erosion, and filtering nonpoint source pollution from runoff. Fences should be located to avoid the removal of trees. Obviously if the fence were to be placed in an area that was an existing maintained lawn, the revegetation requirement would not be applicable.
Are sheds allowed within an RPA?
The administrative waiver available for minor additions is not available for construction of accessory structures. Accessory structures are specifically prohibited in the state regulations from consideration as minor additions. However, the construction of small sheds that do not require a building permit (currently 150 sq. ft. under VUSBC) over maintained grass lawns are an inconsequential modification to an existing use and may be permitted. However, the ability to locate a shed in an undisturbed RPA area is more problematic because there would normally be at least some other place on the lot that it could be located without encroaching into the RPA and should be discussed with county staff.
Are decks allowed within an RPA?
Decks are treated as minor additions under the ordinance and therefore are permitted subject to an administrative waiver process. The administrative waiver process is only available for additions to homes constructed prior to the effective date of the ordinance for existing RPAs and homes constructed prior to the effective date of the amendments for newly designated RPAs.
What are loss of buildable area provisions?
An administrative waiver process is available for construction of new
homes on lots platted prior to the effective date of the ordinance for
existing RPAs and lots platted prior to the effective date of the
amendments for newly designated RPAs. The loss of buildable area
provisions allow for construction of 5,000 sq. ft. of impervious area in
the RPA exclusive of the driveway and 10,000 sq. ft. of disturbed area in
the RPA exclusive of the driveway and septic field.
For more information, call the Office of Public Affairs at 703-324-3187; TTY 703-324-2935.


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lewis & roca llp Archives
How Subcontractors Can Reduce Risk On Green Building Projects
January 1, 2011 by in Green | Real Estate
Green building provides a unique opportunity for the small to mid-sized subcontractor. In fact, an integrated approach to green design, building and construction will be essential to efficiently building green projects. Subcontractors and material providers can greatly benefit from the green building trend by understanding certification requirements, becoming familiar with green practices for their particular… Read More →

subset: commoncrawl


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|June 19, 2014
09:00 AM to 01:00 PM
|UNG Gainesville Campus
|UNG Continuing Education/Gainesville
P. O. Box 1358
Gainesville, GA 30503
|5th grade to 8th grade
|The University of North Georgia Basketball Camp offer Skills and Drills for both boys and girls. Whether you are a newcomer to the sport or a varsity level player, the camp is designed to help young basketball player develop athletically. Your kids will grow and learn about more than basketball at camp. While they practice ball-handling, dribbling, and shooting, they will also learn about self-esteem, teamwork, and the value of hard work. The summer 2014 camp will consist of 5 day sessions from 9AM to 1PM July 9th - 13th for boys and girls of all skill levels. The UNG Basketball Camp is directed by Coach Patrick Hamilton, a former University of Georgia College basketball player. Coach Hamilton also spent time with the Cleveland Cavaliers and the Dallas Mavericks. In addition, he has been the Commissioner of the Atlanta Hawks Summer Camp program since 2004. This 5-day camp will balance the teaching and developing of skills with games, contests, and competitive play. As with all sports, mastering the fundamentals is the key to a player's success. Through daily skills stations and conditioning, campers will practice and improve their dribbling, passing, shooting, defense skills and footwork. In addition, part of the camp day is scheduled to be spent learning how to be your best and achieve your goals. The sport is basketball, but the most important element is the children's future development. *ALL Campers will receive a camp t-shirt. Please bring a snack and water bottle to camp each day. A signed Liability Waiver is REQUIRED for participation.


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Midnight Express
Kelly Sawyer Patricof, model-turned-creative director of Satine Boutique's private label and copresident of the nonprofit Baby2Baby.
Digital Inspiration:
The Coveteur captures the personal wardrobe and homes of today's top tastemakers
Girl Crazy
"As you can see here, my obsession with Isabel Marant is more than an obsession—it's a sickness. I just love everything she does!"
Isabel Marant jacket, skirt, boots
The Darlings


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THE funeral of a murdered Accrington businessman found in a shallow grave in the Ribble Valley will take place on Friday.
David Guilfoyle, 37, was killed by Shane Fitzpatrick in a fit of rage after he discovered he was dating his ex-wife in May 2005.
Despite an extensive police investigation, his body was not found until December last year when Fitzpatrick asked for police to visit him in prison so he could lead them to the body.
More than 50 officers, army and forensic archaeologists searched for Mr Guilfoyle's body for a week in wood-land in Bolton-by-Bowland.
His family will now lay him to rest at Accrington Cemetery following a service at the chapel at 1.40pm.
His daughter, Samantha Feeley, 22, paid tribute to 'a great man and loving father'.
She said: "After a number of hard years, it is with some relief that I can finally lay my dad to rest knowing he will be at peace.
"For all of his family, friends, and acquaintances, I hope that anyone impacted by his loss can take comfort with the knowledge that the uncertainty is over and we can look forward to remembering a great man and loving father.
"I would like to thank Lancashire Police for all their dedicated work and support throughout."
Fitzpatrick, a 42-year-old former Burnley printer from Hapton, was jailed for at least 20 years in 2006.


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Fellow of the Association for Music and Imagery
Associate Professor of Music Therapy
Director/Chair of Graduate Music Therapy
610-647-4400 ext. 3490
Program Overview
The Graduate Music Therapy Department provides a unique educational experience for students interested in establishing or advancing a career in music therapy. The Master of Arts programs prepare students to practice music therapy at an advanced level, with a special emphasis on music-centered psychotherapy.
The 60-credit Master of Arts provides a comprehensive program of education and training for students who have completed an undergraduate degree in a related field (e.g. music, music education, psychology, etc.) and wish to become Board-Certified Music Therapists (MT-BC).
The 48-credit Master of Arts provides advanced theoretical, clinical and musical knowledge and skills for those who already have the MT-BC credential and wish to develop advanced clinical practice skills, with a special emphasis on music-centered psychotherapy.
Both programs fulfill the educational requirements for a licensed professional counselor in Pennsylvania (LPC).
What is music therapy?
Music therapy helps clients to develop skills, adapt behavior, and overcome obstacles in their lives. Music therapists use different kinds of musical experiences, such as singing, improvising, writing songs, and listening to and talking about music, to meet clients' needs using the unique relationship between the client, the music and the therapist.
At Immaculata, you will take music therapy and psychology courses in your degree program. Music therapy courses focus on the theory and practice of the field, including courses in clinical improvisation, music and imagery, research and ethics. Psychology courses focus on advancing your understanding of human development and psychopathology.
Download a suggested reading list to learn more about the field.
Program Highlights
- More than 35-year-old program with a dynamic, innovative tradition.
- Comprehensive music therapy education and training, focused on understanding theoretical principles and applying them to methodology.
- A variety of enrichment programs
- Faculty with more than 30 years of combined clinical experience, along with research and publication experience. We see your education and training as mentoring, helping you develop your own unique clinical focus.
- A range of research opportunities, including your own culminating project
- Assistance in preparing for the board certification (CBMT) exam.
60-credit Program Highlights
- Learn how music therapy applies to diverse clinical populations, including children with special needs, people with medical conditions, adolescents and adults with psychiatric problems, retired adults, and adults in hospice or palliative care.
- Develop your clinical musicianship, learning how to use guitar, piano, voice and your major instrument (e.g. clarinet) in different clinical settings.
- Experience different clinical settings to observe, assist, and lead music therapy sessions with different client groups, under the supervision of a board-certified music therapist.
48-credit Program Highlights
- Learn advanced music therapy methods and techniques in improvisation, music and imagery, and song use.
- Develop a comprehensive knowledge of client assessment.
- Receive advanced clinical supervision.
- Take advanced music skills courses, tailored to your needs, to enhance clinical practice.
Career Potential
Music therapists work in a wide variety of clinical and educational settings: hospitals, psychiatric institutions, nursing homes, community mental health centers, prisons, schools, private practice, and hospice facilities.
As the profession continues to grow, there is an increasing demand, particularly in psychiatric settings and hospitals, for music therapists with clinical experience and advanced degrees. Immaculata receives many requests for assistance in finding music therapists to fill positions, and these are shared with students in the program. Professional job listings are also published bimonthly by the American Music Therapy Association (AMTA) and the Mid-Atlantic Region of the American Music Therapy Association (MAR-AMTA).
Tuition and Costs
After completing one year in the M.A. program, students are eligible to apply for merit scholarships and assistantships, both offering tuition reimbursement.
Learn more about tuition and how to apply for financial aid.
Full-time and part-time internships are offered in a wide variety of clinical settings, under close supervision. Students must complete a minimum of 1,000 hours for their internship.
The Master of Arts in Music Therapy is accredited by the National Association of Schools of Music (NASM) and approved by the American Music Therapy Association (AMTA). For further information on music therapy (including educational guidelines), consult AMTA's website.
Admission Requirements
Students who come into our Music Therapy program are looking to combine their love of music with a desire to help others, and they are often interested in psychology, medicine and/or philosophy.
Being intellectually curious is very important. Opening yourself to new theories and ideas is essential in your development as a music therapist, as are your writing and critical thinking abilities.
Being a competent musician is also very important. You need to be well-rounded musically in order to reach others through singing and playing, improvising and moving to music. During your training, you will develop guitar, piano and vocal skills in a range of styles such as rock, folk, country, oldies, kids' songs and sometimes even your own compositions. You will further advance these skills through courses in areas such as vocal psychotherapy and improvisation.
Finally, being in good mental and physical health is very important. You need the motivation, maturity and creativity to work with people who have a wide range of needs. This means adapting to different settings and people, being open to supervision and feedback, and having the emotional fortitude to "be there" for someone. The best therapists have often used music to help or heal themselves—they know first-hand what it's like to use music therapeutically, and what it's like to overcome life's challenges.
Applying to the program
After applying to the College of Graduate Studies (CGS), you must arrange an audition and interview by emailing Dr. Eyre at email@example.com. Learn more about applying and auditioning. In order to be admitted into the Music Therapy program, students must be admitted into CGS and pass the graduate audition and interview.


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News From the Friends
Library Newsletter now available by email
Use the City of Cedar Falls' "Notify Me" service to have the newsletter delivered automatically to your email every month. Go to http://www.cedarfalls.com /and click on "Notify Me" in the upper right-hand corner. Follow the instructions and check "Public Library" to receive this newsletter at the beginning of each month.
Friends of the Cedar Falls Public Library
Minutes of the Annual Meeting
April 23, 2016
President, Maelou Baxter, welcomed everyone to the Annual Meeting of the Friends of the Library. There were 39 members and guests in attendance.
Our speaker for the morning, Sheryl McGovern, Director of the Library, gave an excellent slide presentation showing the many things that make our library special and indicate our growth. She also displayed a variety of materials, besides books, that are available to library users and told of the many activities the library provides. Sheryl said that great communities deserve great libraries, and she is in hopes of making ours extraordinary.
Following Sheryl's presentation, Kelly Stern, Youth Services Director, told of the many activities and articles available to the young readers, including puppets, robots, and Leapfrog learning books. This summer there will be a different weekly thematic programs and a library bike ride.
Sheryl thanked everyone present for their support of the library.
Maelou called the formal meeting to order and shared from a book she has been reading, When Books Went to War telling about the small pocket-sized paper back books that were made available so that soldiers could carry them in their pockets during battle.
Nancie Handorf read the minutes of the April 25, 2015 meeting. Sue Doody moved that the minutes be accepted, and Deon Senchina seconded the motion with unanimous approval.
Election of Board members followed, and both Sue Doody and Janet Kahler were re-elected to the Board. Maelou also expressed our thankfulness that Sheryl, after a very brief retirement, returned to her position as Director of the Library in a ¾ time position. The members of the Friends Board were introduced, and Janet Kahler explained that the Book Nook would no longer be represented at Sturgis Falls as they are eliminating all non-profits booths from the street fair and moving them to perimeter areas that will not have much exposure.
Sue Doody presented a by-law revision that would make our Library Director and our liaison member from the Board of Trustees non-voting members to prevent conflict of interests. Sue moved and David Walker seconded and the motion was approved.
Announcements included the fact that the annual report will be out soon and that there were membership brochures on each table that could be taken home to pass out to friends.
Maelou extended a thank you to all who attended and to those who had provided salads and decorations for the luncheon. The meeting was adjourned at 12:25, with the delicious salad luncheon following.
Respectfully submitted,
Nancie Handorf, Secretary
Contact Information
For more information on the Friends, contact Friends of the Library Vice-President Sue Doody at email@example.com or call 319-273-8643.


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Welcome to the new Online Newsstand where you'll find easy access to recent feature length articles in many of the most popular magazines organized by category. Just click on a category to access the articles.
Most Popular Categories
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Weekly News & Analysis
We want to hear from you about what magazines should be featured on the Newsstand, so please send us your suggestions. In July 2010, we made two changes to the Newsstand based on patron requests, adding in People Magazine and Inc. What other magazines would you like to see added?
Search the Newsstand on your mobile phone/handheld device here.


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IT's take-off time at this year's bumper Clacton Air Show.
The event, which is in its 23rd year, takes place Thursday and Friday at the resort's West Greensward. The action gets under way at around 12.30pm on both days.
Organisers claim the show will be the biggest and best yet with aircraft ranging from the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight to modern day fighter jets.
Mark Platt, Tendring Council's cabinet member for tourism, said: "Last year we had around 140,000 people watching the show over the two days and it would be great if we can top that this time."
The air show will include the Red Arrows (Friday only), who are celebrating their 50th anniversary, as well as the Typhoon Eurofighter, the Avro Vulcan (Thursday only), Royal Canadian Lancaster and Battle of Britain Memorial Flight.
The programme also includes the Sea King Helicopter, Tutor, Autogyro, Essex Air Ambulance, RAF Tucano, the Breitling Wingwalkers, the Trig Aerobatic Team, Rolls Royce Spitfire, the Bulldog as well as Richard Goodwin and his modified Pitts S2S G-EWIZ.


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AMD Announces New Winter Video Game Bundle: Never Settle Reloadedby Ryan Smith on 2/2/2013 3:00 PM EST
13 Comments
Back to Article
HisDivineOrder - Saturday, February 02, 2013 - linkFar Cry 3, I bet, will continue to be Uplay. That'd only affect people buying two 7900's though. But Uplay is nothing but trouble. It won't even accept a CD serial key. Reply
JarredWalton - Saturday, February 02, 2013 - linkEven better, Far Cry 3 is available on Steam, but then it launches a special version of UPlay. Whee! Fun! Ubisoft's anti-piracy approach is anti-consumer, and the pirates can still download and play Ubisoft games through the usual channels. Reply
Fiercé - Saturday, February 02, 2013 - linkYou're mistaken in that you think this is AMDs/Steams/Origins fault.
Far Cry 3 has always been uPlay and will continue to be uPlay, as will their Splinter Cell, Watchdog and Rainbow Six games. That's their DRM technique and has nothing to do with Valve, EA, AMD or NVIDIA.
If you were to buy Far Cry 3 on Steam right now, it would download and install uPlay. Launching the game through Steam would launch uPlay, which launches the actual game EXE.
So this doesn't affect "only people getting Bundle Codes from buying AMD GPUs". This affects everyone who purchases a Ubisoft game whatsoever.
Regarding the new Bundle, I'm ecstatic that AMD is finally taking game bundles seriously as I know about least 4 people who bought entry level NVIDIA cards simply because they came with Arkham Asylum. I am VERY disappointed however that they're making me choose between Crysis 3 or Tomb Raider, as I'm interested in both and don't appreciate having to blow $700+ in order to get them.
If they were really smart, they'd have a website based redemption scheme where the customer would have to register/trade their email address for getting the codes emailed to them, with the website allowing selectable combinations of games based on the customers value motives. I'd happily give up the older 3 games for the newer 3 alone in exchange for purchasing a single 7900 series, and that capability in itself generates immense brand value for every customer being able to get exactly what they want from the Bundle Buffet.
FYI, I'm looking for work AMD. Just saying. Reply
JanieMartin - Thursday, February 07, 2013 - linkLove my job, since I've been bringing in $5600… I sit at home, music playing while I work in front of my new iMac that I got now that I'm making it online.(Click Home information)
http://goo.gl/4P6GJ Reply
Fiercé - Saturday, February 02, 2013 - linkActually HisDivineOrder, on a quick second read through, maybe I replied prematurely.
If the games from the prior bundle were not Steam/Origin, then what were they? Physical DVDs? Some sort of mail-in redemption of a physical copy? If they weren't actually digital distribution codes, then it could be looked at one of two ways.
Either AMD is losing out on possible cost savings by still shipping physical media in the bundles rather than providing digital distribution codes, or they're providing gamers exactly what they want as there has be a recent rise of vocal minority gamers shouting they'd much prefer physical copies of the game data rather than being dependent upon download servers that remain online only at the whim of bandwidth costs and functioning internet backbones.
Whichever way, apologies if I've jumped the gun. Reply
xdeadzx - Saturday, February 02, 2013 - linkThey ship a never settle bundle key related to what you bought, which you redeem online. They then send you CD keys for each game that your bundle entitles you to. Uplay DOES redeem CD keys, or rather, coupon codes (100% discount code). Games that can be redeemed on other platforms are sent as game CD keys for steam/origin.
No, they don't send physical media. Source: The Never settle coupon paper sitting on my desk. Reply
Fiercé - Saturday, February 02, 2013 - linkOh, so you're basically saying that HisDivineOrder is incorrect? And that all codes/keys provided by these AMD bundles are in fact digital distribution codes and redeemable by submitting them over the internet and getting GBs of game data in return? Reply
Paulman - Sunday, February 03, 2013 - linkI don't think HisDivineOrder meant an actual physical CD. I think he just meant a serial code (when he said "CD key"). Reply
This Guy - Saturday, February 02, 2013 - linkNvidia don't need game bundles right now. They have Shield. And if there has ever been a time to wait six months, Oculus Rift may be the cause of it. Reply
GiantPandaMan - Saturday, February 02, 2013 - linkHuh? Oculus will work with either video card. Shield is in a whole other category and has nothing to do with high end video cards or their bundles.
It's like me saying that you shouldn't buy a new phone because a new version of Office is coming out. Reply
ET - Sunday, February 03, 2013 - linkThis Guy has a point. Anyone interested in Shield will want an NVIDIA card to go with it, so this is a selling point. Not perhaps a huge draw as This Guy implies, but it exists. Reply
This Guy - Monday, February 04, 2013 - linkIt's not like this is a new processor that's 15-20% faster. These are two products my mates and I are interested in running. One won't run on AMD and I don't know how much gpu or ram I'll need for the other. I think that's a pretty good reason for us to wait six months.
It's like buying an PS3 to play xbox Kinect games. Reply
CZroe - Tuesday, February 05, 2013 - link"Although game bundles are nothing new ... digital distribution ... has allowed GPU manufacturers and their partners to get a lot more creative ... by allowing them to bundle ... yet to be released games..."
I bought my 3dfx Voodoo3 3000 at launch. The game bundle included full versions of Unreal, Unreal Tournament, Need for Speed 3 Hot Pursuit, and more (trial of Descent 3, IIRC). The thing is, Unreal Tournament wasn't released yet, so it had a voucher to claim it by mail. Clearly, they intended to release UT with the card but thing didn't work out with the "logistics of physical distribution" and the timing of their product launch. The disc had Unreal Tournament on the label but contained Unreal on the disc, which was very strange. The actual UT discs I got in the mail had full-color labels while the Unreal disc with the incorrect label had a monochrome version of the same label art. Many years later, I found an Unreal forum that was looking for an unreleased version of the UnrealEd (level editor) program to open up some leaked beta maps. Even though they advertised that every copy of Unreal included UnrealEd.exe, mine didn't, but it did have the UnrealEd DLL file that was from the missing version and they were able to get those leaked beta maps opened. The logistics ended up leaking private utilities, even if no one knew until many years later. :) Reply


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Athletic Training
BS/MS in Athletic Training Dual Degree
Program Overview
The Division of Nursing at Thomas More College is proud to offer a dual B.S. /M.S. degree in Athletic Training. This 164-credit degree program, offered by the Athletic Training Program (ATP), prepares students to take the Board of Certification (BOC) exam to enter the field as a certified athletic trainer (ATC). As a new program at Thomas More College, the Athletic Training Program is in the initial phase of pursuing accreditation by the Commission on Accreditation of Athletic Training Education (CAATE). The purpose of CAATE is to maintain the quality of entry-level athletic training education programs.
The comprehensive curriculum is divided into two phases: a two-year, Pre-Professional Phase and a three-year, Professional Phase. The expanded, three-year, Professional Phase offers students the chance to take more advanced courses, the advantage of increased time to interact and train with mentors, and the opportunity to integrate a variety of clinical experiences. The BS/MS in Athletic Training dual degree program is intended for first year students, transfer students or students who change majors early in their undergraduate education. The first two years of this program are classified as the "pre-professional" phase. Each student will complete the program prerequisites and bachelor's degree requirements for a major in Athletic Training. The "professional" phase of the program will begin in the fall semester of the student's third year, while the graduate courses will begin in the fall semester of the students fourth year. At the end of the student's fourth year, he or she will receive a Bachelor of Science in Athletic Training. At the end of the fifth year, each student will earn a Master of Science in Athletic Training (MSAT) degree and be eligible for the Board of Certification exam.
Hallmarks of the ATP will include field-based learning experiences with opportunities for students to work side-by-side with highly experienced certified athletic trainers; state-of-the-art laboratory facilities that allow students to gain significant experience in all areas of clinical practice; individualized instruction provided by advanced teaching fellows; and a mentorship program that promotes further sharing of knowledge and experience.The ATP will also offer students the opportunity to learn new skill sets within the field of Athletic Training. As the role of Athletic Trainers continue to evolve so too will the competencies that athletic training students learn. At Thomas More College, the Athletic Training program recognizes this evolution and will implement courses to broaden the skill set of the students within the program. Athletic Training students at Thomas More College will have the opportunity to learn casting, imaging, and a variety of other skills that will improve their opportunity to find employment as a Physician Extender. The role of an ATC as a Physician Extender is an up and coming field within Athletic Training and Orthopedic Physician offices.
Mission Statement
Through an innovative interdisciplinary education and clinical practice model, the Athletic Training program at Thomas More College prepares students to provide evidence-based and patient-centered clinical services that will optimize the quality of health care received by physically active people of any age. The Athletic Training program utilizes state of the art technology and modern teaching strategies. It provides unique clinical experiences to cultivate professionals who embody sound clinical reasoning, professional ethics, honesty, compassion, primacy of the patient, and who are advocates for the profession of athletic training.
Goals & Objectives
- To prepare students to pass the BOC examination on their first attempt.
- To provide students the opportunity to demonstrate problem solving and clinical reasoning skills.
- To produce high quality athletic trainers for employment in various athletic training settings.
- To promote interdisciplinary healthcare education that utilizes evidence based concepts
- To promote professional and ethical conduct at all times.
- To provide students opportunity to develop their skills in the classroom and in clinical settings.
- To continually update the curricular offerings to provide current knowledge in the field.
- To provide innovative and high quality instruction in the didactic and clinical settings.
- To promote the concept of establishing professional contacts by attending professional and educational meetings and seminars.
- To foster an appreciation of athletic training as a contribution to the healthcare system.
- To foster the foundational behaviors of professional practice.


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A Closer Look at the Sandy Bridge Dieby Anand Lal Shimpi on 1/10/2011 2:29 PM EST
- Posted in
- CPUs
- Intel
- Sandy Bridge
7 Comments
Back to Article
Stuka87 - Monday, January 10, 2011 - linkI didn't realize the form factor had shrunk from previous Core series chips. Reply
Brunnis - Monday, January 10, 2011 - linkAnand, I don't think you've mentioned what the differences between GT1 and GT2 are... Is GT2 simply 12EU while GT1 is 6EU? GT2 for mobile use while GT1 is for desktop? Reply
deputc26 - Monday, January 10, 2011 - linkIt's just 12EU vs. 6EU, clocks change for mobile vs. desktop but the silicon is the same. Reply
QChronoD - Monday, January 10, 2011 - linkMaybe I missed it between all the tablets and the new 4K 3D TVs, but I haven't seen any announcements that I can remember for new Sandy Bridge laptops from CES. Are you guys going to have a roundup later?
(Want something to replace a 4y/o 1.2Ghz C2D ULV... Preferably something that can play Minecraft and last 6+ hours) Reply
iwod - Monday, January 10, 2011 - linkI remember in one of your SandyBridge Article, you mentioned Intel GPU manage to perform similar to X ATI / Nvidia GPU @ 240 Million Transistor while only using 120 Million transistor.
However according to your Chart, a Single Core GT1 would actually be 120 Million transistor. And GT2 would be 240 Million.
I am also surprised Intel decided to make 2 difference die instead of having GT2 with one core cut off. 32nm must be getting very good yield in order to do so. Reply
mczak - Monday, January 10, 2011 - linkI'm fairly confident the GT1 dual core version also only has 3MB of L3 present (some of the GT2 dual core mobile parts also have only 3MB L3 but they have 1MB disabled instead of not present).
Just look at the floor plan of the quad core SB (which is the only one published), and you can pretty much see how the dual core ones will look like (and in the case of the GT1 one, why it has 1/4 less L3 cache apart from less EUs). Reply
mczak - Monday, January 10, 2011 - linkForgot to mention, so the 120M transistor count difference (as well as the die size difference) is only about half due to missing 6 EUs, the rest would be the 1MB L3 cache missing.
Still, the overall die size difference is quite small indeed, and hardly seems worth the effort. I guess though it's because those versions will be sold in huge quantities (contrast this to LG1366 westmere, which are sold as 6-core, 4-core, 2-core, and even one-core embedded xeons, all with the one and only 6-core die, but presumably all partly-disabled parts combined in lower quantity than either of the 2 dual core SB). Reply


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Pushing the limits – together with Kistler
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Make a fairy seat for your fairy garden
Little girls love fairies. Why not make a fairy garden to entice the fairies to visit? You'll also need some fairy furniture like this fairy bench seat. It will lead to hours of imaginary fairy games for your little girl.
Number of players:
What you need:
- 6 x 10cm long twigs
- 2 x 2cm twigs
- 2 x mini Paddlepop sticks
- hot glue gun
- stanley knife or garden secateurs (pruning shears)
Watch the video to see a fairy bench seat come together.
Use the two mini Paddlepop sticks as the base for the seat. Trim them to size, about 3cm in length is ideal.
Place the Paddlepop sticks parallel to each other about 10cm apart and then use a hot glue gun to glue the four 10cm twigs onto them in rows. This forms the seat of your fairy chair.
Now put the two short twigs (the 2cm ones) at the front. Glue them on to be the front legs of the chair.
Use two long twigs to form the back legs and back-rest for the chair.
Use the remaining two long twigs to sure up the back-rest, placing them horizontally across the back.
Now put it in a fairy garden and wait for the fairies to come!
Learning benefits of play, craft and activities:
- Benefits of crafts for kids
- Craft ideas to make for babies
- Why reading is important
- Your child's development milestones
- Why play makes kids smarter
- The importance of outdoor play
- Types of play
- How craft helps unplug kids from screentime


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A GROUP of independent retailers are teaming up to help homeowners prepare for spring makeovers.
York Lifestyle 2013, which will be held on February 2 and 3 at Dean's Garden Centre in Stockton Lane, brings together 14 independent businesses, including Fabric Gallery & Interiors, Herbert Todd & Son, Focus Fireplaces, Dean's Garden Centre, Quickslide Windows Direct and Astek Landscapes.
The event, supported by The Press, will provide one-to-one expert advice for homeowners and will also see the launch of new collections, designs and products for 2013.
Steve Whitt, owner of Fabric Gallery & Interiors in Dunnington, who is part of the team planning the event, said the free exhibition would support local charities and offer big prizes, as well as providing a boost for independent retailers.
The group of businesses were brought together in a forum organised by The Press, to share experiences and best practice in marketing. The collaboration then evolved with the businesses pooling resources to put on the grand exhibition.
Mr Whitt said: "Independent retailers are able to punch above their individual weights by working together. We're bringing a group of people together who all have different experiences and people are learning from each other. And by pooling resources, we realised we could put on quite a sizeable show together, something which normally would be considered outside our own individual budgets. It suddenly becomes hugely manageable."
He said the collaboration was enabling them to put together impressive prizes for attendees and to market the event widely.
Register online at yorklifestyle.co.uk for updates as more exhibitors and prizes are confirmed.


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As an IT pro, you could get in legal trouble without even realizing it. You may be liable for civil damages, criminal fines, and/or jail time if, while doing your job, you intentionally or accidentally breach contracts or violate laws. It doesn't have to be criminal behavior; there are lots of noncriminal actions, called torts, that you can accidentally stumble over.
This kind of inadvertent legal trouble actually happens to IT pros. For example, one client I represent in a copyright infringement case went to a construction site, measured the kitchen, then went back to his office and created a kitchen equipment drawing using AutoCAD. Sounds innocent, doesn't it? Yet he is now a defendant in a federal lawsuit, as is his employer for infringing the copyright of the architect, even though he made his own drawings rather than use the architect's drawings. In the United States, for better or worse, anybody can sue anyone else -- and they frequently do.
[ Follow the latest developments and insights on current technologies with the InfoWorld Daily newsletter and the Tech Watch blog. ]
So how can you get in legal trouble without even knowing it? Let me describe some specific instances where IT pros could unwittingly find themselves in legal trouble by just doing their job.
You need to be wary of how you treat confidential information, so an understanding of privacy laws is essential. Information could be considered confidential because the owner of the material contractually requires protection of the knowledge by those with access to it. State or federal laws dictate whether information is considered private and whether there is an obligation to protect certain types of information about individuals.
An example is HIPAA, the law governing the use of medical information, which lists 18 data elements that may not be made public. As an IT pro, you should be aware -- in a general sense -- of the origins of the data stored on your IT systems. For example, privacy laws vary widely across companies, so if you access or manage information systems that include data from, say, the European Union, different laws and requirements may apply than if your business handles only U.S. data.
As companies deal more and more globally, it's easier and easier to have information from different regions, each with its own rules. The E.U.'s Data Protection Directive, for example, permits individuals to access computers that have information about them and requires the holder of that data to modify it as requested. Canada and Japan have similar laws relating to personal data.
In the United States, the general rule is that employees are not entitled to privacy for emails accessed through email systems provided by the employer. On June 17, the U.S. Supreme Court voted 9-0 that employees should likewise not expect any privacy for text messages accessed using employer-provided equipment. However, employees can expect their emails and text messages to remain private if accessed only on their personal equipment. An employee using a personal iPhone or PC for work email could expect personal emails on that device to be private but not emails accessed from the corporate email system; many courts have ruled in the United States that the use of corporate email systems mean that the employee should expect no privacy.
Another area in which you should be careful: You should not access confidential information for personal use. That sounds obvious, but some courts may think that reviewing confidential information is not an innocent activity and assume there's an intent for personal use. You should have a specific business reason to review such information. On the other hand, one federal appeals court overturned the conviction of an IRS employee for reviewing taxpayer information inappropriately because that employee did not actually use the information.
Pornography use
In the United States, possession of child pornography is a crime, and there are no ifs, ands, or buts for this issue. If you find child pornography on computers at work, you could also be guilty of a crime if you do not turn in the person possessing the child pornography. This fact puts a big burden on each IT professional to be vigilant for child pornography. But note that the U.S. Supreme Court decided that an animated video featuring cartoon characters of kids was not child pornography because there were only computer-generated characters.
Adult pornography is a different matter: It is not automatically a crime to possess adult porn in the United States, and it is not a crime at all in many countries. In the United States, the tricky part about porn is the concept of community standards, which leaves the decision to each locality as to what is pornographic. That can make it hard to have a standard across multiple locations, and even in one location, it requires IT pros to have a sense of what is acceptable or not to the community (the employees, for example) as opposed to what is personally acceptable. Ultimately, the company's policies should determine the standard, not individual IT pros, and IT pros should know what those policies are.
The body that governs website domain names, the International Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, recently adopted an .xxx top-level domain for porn sites, which should make tracking behavior of this sort much easier.
Copyright and source code violations
Most everyone is aware that the "software police" (from the Business Software Alliance and the Software and Information Industry Association) routinely bring claims against companies that make illegal copies of software and thus violate the U.S. Copyright Act. IT pros can be personally liable for making illegal copies because the person making the copy is technically the infringer. For the most part, the "software police" present infringement claims to employers, but if the dispute is not resolved and litigation ensues, the individual IT pro who made illegal copies may have personal liability.
IT pros who have access to source code should make it a routine practice to verify that their employers have a proper license. If the source code was not properly licensed, or there are some limits on who may access the source code, you might have liability. Why? Because such improper use could be considered misappropriation of a trade secret, and any individuals who have access to the source code -- not just the employer company -- can become parties to a lawsuit. Trust me, it happens: CA is an example of a company that for years has sued individuals for misappropriation of trade secrets by using source code improperly.
Financial shenanigans
Several federal agencies monitor financial records for public and private companies, including the Securities and Exchange Commission, Department of Justice, Internal Revenue Service, and the bankruptcy courts. Thus, if you create fictitious financial records, without question you may be personally liable. So if an employer asks you to do something suspicious with financial records -- such as creating a shadow set of financial statements, setting up fake accounts, and writing checks inappropriately -- you may have personal exposure for your behavior, such as fines and/or jail terms. It doesn't matter that an executive told you to do it or that you didn't realize what was going on.
Use the smell test
There is no question that judges and juries are not technically savvy enough to understand what IT pros do on a day-to-day basis. That lack of understanding can lead them to conclude you're at fault or should have known better. After all, many people think anyone technical is a whiz kid or brainiac on any topic.
To avoid legal problems, the best advice for IT pros is to be wary of what does not pass the smell test. If something seems wrong, it probably is. Use your intuition and judgment to avoid becoming embroiled in criminal misbehavior, breaching contracts, or committing torts. When in doubt, consult an attorney who understands IT and the Internet.
This article, "IT pros: Lurking legal gotchas and how to avoid them," was originally published at InfoWorld.com. Follow the latest developments in IT pros' worklife issues and adventures at InfoWorld.com.


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Google started by offering 100 of free email accounts, then 50, then 10 and as of today zilch. My customers are mostly very small businesses and they appreciated Google Apps services.
Google Apps Free Edition
Starting on December 6, 2012, Google will no longer offer new accounts for the free edition of Google Apps. Google Apps free edition is sometimes referred to as "Standard Edition."
More [here or [URL="http://googleenterprise.blogspot.com/2012/12/changes-to-google-apps-for-businesses.html"]here](http://support.google.com/a/bin/answer.py?hl=en&hlrm=en&answer=2855120)
Ah well, seems fair enough to me. I couldn't really understand why they had a free version anyway. The paid version is cheap as chips, and shouldn't cause a blip on the costsheet even of a very small business.
Looking from a more developed country it's indeed a blip but when you are from a country where when asking US$150 for webhosting is considered as "very expensive" having to fork out US$50 per account looks a lot. I guess all my new customers will have to live with the email service provided by the hosting company and learn how to use an email client.
Yes, that's always a difficult problem in this international environment. I sometimes wonder why companies like Google don't quietly adjust prices for different regions. Seems a moral thing to do to me, and might get them more business, too, if your example is anything to go by. (I know that Adobe adjusts its prices for different regions ... at least upwards, anyway. Adobe products are hugely more expensive here in Australia, and I believe in the UK, than in the US itself .... even via digital download! Why? Because they know a lot of us will pay extra for it. :rolleyes: )
Crisp, even via download ? That is very weird. Is it because it takes more hops to reach you ? LOL
No, someone questioned Adobe a few years ago over why their software is so much more expensive in the UK and Aus, and they admitted that it's because people in those countries are generally much more willing to part with their $$$ than North Americans. In other words, "because they can".
Ah, the joys of being a monopoly... Anyway, maybe from Google's standpoint this is the logical decision to make. I'm not quite familiar with the free edition but if it didn't have any ads in it, I guess it just didn't make them enough money...
Just move on to ZOHO.
Even the paid version has ads in it. :rolleyes:
Really? Well, if people are using it despite that they must like it very much then... What happened to Google's "don't be evil" policy?
It fell in love with the "no child in poverty" policy, and they eloped and disappeared, never to be seen again ...


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Up Close with the New Mac Proby Anand Lal Shimpi on 6/10/2013 3:15 PM EST
137 Comments
Back to Article
madwolfa - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkThat looks like a very expensive trash can, sorry. Reply
andykins - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkIt looks like a black R2-D2 with bottom wheels missing. I think it's pretty cute ^_^ Reply
nunomoreira10 - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkIt quida looks like a space ship energy generator, the only thing missing is some effect lights
It shoud came out on future films like "quick remove the generator core before it explodes!" Reply
fteoath64 - Friday, June 14, 2013 - linkYeah. looks like the "ancient" Enterprise Warp Core module!. Tachyon shielding is failing, core breach in 5 minutes, prepare to eject warp core .... Reply
joel4565 - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkI am guessing its weird design is so that it can pull air from the bottom, pass the air across all internal components and exit the air out of the top.
I know there was an ITX case reviewed on anandtech a while back that used the same principle and had pretty good cooling for its size. Reply
JDG1980 - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkLooks like Apple has taken some cooling lessons from SilverStone. They've demonstrated that using large (180mm) intake fans and having them blow air directly across the CPU and GPU heatsinks can get great thermals at reasonable noise levels. Reply
coder543 - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkIt's theft deterrent. Who would think to steal the office trash can? Reply
Dman23 - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkHaha. I literally lol'd.
To me it looks like a futuristic, all-knowing cylindrical Pod. Something out of a machine-race from another world Reply
DanNeely - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkThat problem didn't stop the old CRT based iMacs. *rolls eyes*
http://news.3yen.com/wp-content/images/imac_trash.... Reply
Captain Slow - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkwho cares what it looks like, the specs makes me need new pants Reply
madwolfa - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkWhat's there in the specs you can't DIY for fraction of the price? Reply
JDG1980 - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkYou could build a DIY system of equivalent specs cheaper, but its noise levels and aesthetics probably wouldn't be as good. Keep in mind that this system has an Ivy Bridge-E CPU (and the LGA 2011 processors generally have pretty high TDP) plus *two* powerful AMD FirePro graphics cards, but is cooled by just one large fan. This is only possible because of custom engineering (the motherboard and the 2 graphics cards are in sort of a triangle arrangement with one massive shared heatsink in the middle). Reply
psyq321 - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkEven more importantly, you can build a DIY system which will be much more powerful than this.
Take one of Patsburg 2P motherboards (such as ASUS Z9PE D16), stick two 12-core Ivy Bridge EP Xeon-s (successors to the 2687W) getting you full 24 cores / 48 threads performance and, say, 4 NVIDIA Teslas and add 256 GB of RAM for a good measure (8 x 16 GB ECC DDR3) and you got a machine which is double the performance (possibly even more than double, as I am sure Mac Pro will use limited-TDP Xeon E5 V2s).
Yes, that machine will cost money - but that particular thing is not the point in the particular market segment these systems cater for.
First generation Mac Pro was pretty much the showcase of how to build good workstation based on Westmere Xeon platform - if you wanted, you could expand it with the maximum what Intel's then current 2P platform could offer. This new Mac Pro is crippled from the start. Reply
Heathmoor - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - link8 x 16 is 128. Reply
psyq321 - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkThanks for catching this - I meant 16 DIMM slots - Z9PE D16 has 8 per single CPU socket.
256 GB would also be possible with 8 memory slots, but one would have to use 32 GB ECC FBDIMM-s, which would cost a little fortune for 1866 MHz right now (way way above $1K per DIMM). Currently 16 GB FBDIMMs are sweet spot, and 1866 MHz is still expensive but I expect that the price will drastically fall when Intel launches Ivy Bridge EP since that would be the first big-volume server platform which needs 1866 MHz. Reply
vFunct - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkIf you're going for compute, just buy 2 systems. Any good compute app is distributed anyways, even XCode builds.
The new Mac Pro is 1/8th the volume of the previous one. If you want 2x the power, just get 2 systems, and you STILL have it in 1/4 the volume of the previous generation.
This new Mac Pro really is groundbreaking in compute density.
You cannot make a more efficient system. Reply
Freakie - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkIf you're in a situation where you are concerned about compute density, you get a rack server system. NO ONE seriously concerned with computer density would ever think even for a tiny moment that circles are somehow an "efficient" way of taking up space...
...the idea is just ludicrous... Reply
rs2 - Wednesday, June 12, 2013 - linkAesthetics are irrelevant. It's a computer. It's there to compute, not to look pretty. Reply
PeteH - Thursday, June 13, 2013 - linkSo...what do you drive? Reply
mavere - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkThe 5.5 liter case. Reply
CalaverasGrande - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkyou must be using that quantum math, because the price of the new Mac Pro is unknown.So any "fraction" of that price would only be a probability.
Besides the myth of the Apple tax has been disproven many times. Reply
NeBlackCat - Wednesday, June 12, 2013 - linkCool. Reply
rs2 - Wednesday, June 12, 2013 - linkMeh. The specs are useless if you can't play games on it. And with that OS and those graphics cards, you generally can't. Reply
ElvenLemming - Thursday, June 13, 2013 - linkIf you want to play games, you are in no way the target market. Reply
DaTanMan - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkThere is indeed something odd about seeing a circular/cylindrical computer chassis... Kudos for packing that much hardware inside a case that small and being able to manage all that heat, but a prismatic case makes more sense imo. Reply
Shinshin - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkIs the fact that the new Mac Pro does not have any internal expansion slots means that Thunderbolt 2 expansion devices will not be limited to storage/monitors???
For example an AMD GPU as a Thunderbolt device. Reply
coder543 - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkTheoretically this should have more bandwidth than PCIe 3.0, so yes. Reply
coder543 - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkOr not. Nevermind. Reply
tipoo - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkWhat? No it shouldn't. Thunderbolt 2 is 20Gb/s, mind the little b. PCI-E 3.0 is 15.75 GB/s, big B. Multiply the latter by 8 to compare. Reply
Guspaz - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkDepends how you define that. GPUs normally use 16x slots. A 16x PCIe 3.0 slot provides about 126 gigabits of bi-directional bandwidth, and a 16x PCIe 2.0 slot provides about 64 gigabits. Thunderbolt 2.0 provides only 20.
That said, it's still a decent chunk of bandwidth, and there are lots of things you can do with a GPU that aren't as concerned with bandwidth.
It's worth noting that Thunderbolt isn't limited to storage and monitors today. There are a variety of peripheral adapters available, some multi-connector docks, at least one company is working on a thunderbolt GPU box, etc. Reply
jecastejon - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkOk maybe I am missing something here, but whats the point precisely with the GPU expansion over Thunderbolt if you can plug 2 FirePro GC internally (?) Just this is not the point as Apple already addressed the graphic bandwidth. Use TB for other expansion needs like storage, capture cards or other devices. Reply
Shinshin - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkWell, I just gave it as an example. I didn't know it existed already.
I read only about storage and screens that are connected with TB.
Thanks! Reply
jss88 - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - link20 Gbit/s = 2,5 GB/s
PCIe 3 x16 = 15+ GB/s
Actually, this means you're stuck with Firepro and can't do CUDA. Reply
Death666Angel - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkThat's already in existence, just either very expensive or very problematic. Thunderbolt is just PCIe after all. Reply
PubFiction - Wednesday, June 12, 2013 - linkWell this seems stupid to me, the mac pro was the last and only mac that was somewhat upgradeable / expandable. Now they try to shove it in a smaller case and claim it takes up less space, except if you need any expansion now you got all sorts of thunderbolt cables and junk hooked up to it. RIP mac pro. Also the whole unified single heat sink is dumn, I guess the RDF has now conqured the last apple product. Reply
DanNeely - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linka few TB GPU enclosures are already on the market. Currently they're all several hundred dollars though; hopefully cheaper options will become available in the future. Reply
Teknoman117 - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkThat is exactly what it means. http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2013/06/06/s... Not so happy about the choice to use FirePros. Imma buy one of these and load my GTX 680 for Mac. Reply
Teknoman117 - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkGoofed the link - http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2013/06/06/s... Reply
JDG1980 - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkThis already comes with two high-end AMD FirePro GPUs. Why would you need more? Reply
Freakie - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - link...You're joking, right? Because like... even 4 FirePro will leave many people wanting for more... Reply
Zeratul56 - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkAt long last apple isn't robbing people blind by selling the extremely dated Mac Pro. As a system builder, I am not to fond of the new design though. It certainly is very apple in that once is built you can't really change anything about it internally. Reply
xinthius - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkThe RAM and SSD, along with the GPU modules are supposedly removable.
This system is certainly not dated at all. Reply
Zeratul56 - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linki was referring to the old design, sorry for not being specific. It was extremely overpriced and filled with old hardware. The new design is by no means dated. Reply
Aegrum - Monday, June 10, 2013 - link"With 20Gbps up/down on Thunderbolt 2, you should have enough bandwidth for any PCIe expansion."
This statement is somewhat hyperbolic. That'd be equivalent to PCIe 3.0 x2.5 - a very far cry from what any current high-end dGPU would demand, let alone what the GPUs of the future demand. Even at 40Gbps, it's still a bottleneck on the card.
IMO, this is pretty awful news for pros. It's pretty and small, but will force you to buy a whole new system after a few gens of GPUs. Reply
coder543 - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkLet me remind you, until a year ago, all graphics cards were PCIe 2.0, and x16 at that. That means 8GB/s. That's Thunderbolt 1 spec. PCIe 3.0 as I understand it, gives 1GB/s per lane, so double PCIe 2.0. That means 16GB/s, which is within Thunderbolt 2 spec. What gives? And where are you getting the idea that each PCIe 3.0 lane is worth 8GB/s? Reply
coder543 - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkPCIe 3.0 x16 is 16GB/s, just to clarify. This table confirms: http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/printpage/Everythin...
You seem to be wildly mistaken about bandwidth needs, so this is actually really nice for the target customers. Not "awful news for pros" at all. Reply
Dman23 - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkThis guy knows his stuff. It's amazing to me how uninformed people are on Thunderbolt and the power it brings by basically extending the PCI Express buss outside of the chassis of a computer. Its just as fast as if you plug a card into a PCI Express slot inside a computer. Hopefully, the Mac Pro when it comes out will eliminate this weird perception that somehow connecting a card using TB is slower then connecting via an express slot. Reply
Conficio - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkHmm, isn't the entire Thunderbold (1 or 2) running of 4xPCIe 2.0? That alone is the limitation. Reply
Conficio - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkhttp://www.anandtech.com/show/7049/intel-thunderbo... Reply
Aegrum - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkWhere? How about - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express . PCIe 3.0 x16 is 8GBps (64Gbps). You're getting your bits and your bytes mixed up. 8 bits = 1 bite. Thunderbolt is 20GigaBITS per channel, AKA 2.5GBites.
Yes, all the GPUs were PCIe 2.0 x16, which is PCIe 3.0 x8, almost four times faster than Thunderbolt 2. They showed in an article about the 7970 last year that PCIe 3.0 x2 would bottleneck a 7970: http://goo.gl/r2YW9 . What happens in 3 years when the GPUs require even *more* bandwidth? Tbolt 2.0 will be an even *larger* bottleneck. Reply
coder543 - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkAh, ok. Thunderbolt is Gb, not GB. However, your own link to the article backs me up still.
"In our informal testing ahead of the 7970 launch we didn't see any differences between PCIe 2 and PCIe 3 worth noting, and our formal testing backs this up. Under gaming there is absolutely no appreciable difference in performance between PCIe 3 x16 (16GB/sec) and PCIe 2 (8GB/sec). Nor was there any difference between PCIe 3 x8 (8GB/sec) and the other aforementioned bandwidth configurations."
In certain cases, there was bottlenecking, but for the most part, it just didn't matter, even on a PCIe 3.0 x2 connection, which is within the limits of Thunderbolt 2.
I'd say this is much ado about nothing, but change does cause people to worry. Reply
Dman23 - Monday, June 10, 2013 - link/agree Reply
rlkelly - Wednesday, June 12, 2013 - linkYour still confused. Thunderbolt runs of PCIE x4 not x16 so using the comparison between pcie 2 x16 and 3 x8 is invalid. You need to be concerned with the bandwidth available to a pcie 2 x4 slot. We are talking multiples of difference between what thunderbolt can supply and what your video card requires for full performance. Reply
Eidigean - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkYou're off by a multiple of 8. 16 lanes of PCIe 2.0 is 8 giga-BYTES per second. Thunderbolt 2 is 20 giga-BITS per second, or 2.5 giga-BYTES per second. See how slow thunderbolt really is now compared to 16 lanes? Reply
SMURG - Monday, June 10, 2013 - link16GB/s is not within Thunderbolt 2 spec.
Thunderbolt 2 = 20 gigabits per second, and 1 gigabit (Gb) = 0.125 gigabytes so that's only 2.5 Gigabytes (GB) per second.
PCIe 3.0 = 1 Gigabyte (GB) per second per lane, which is 16GB/s which is vastly in excess of Thunderbolt 2's specification.
Please learn about data transfer units before commenting in future. Reply
jameskatt - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkThere are SIX Thunderbolt 2 ports. Each has 2.5 x 2 = 5 GB per second bandwidth. Thus FIVE can be combined and given to an expansion box for 25 GB per second bandwidth - more than PCIe's 16 GB/s.. Reply
rlkelly - Wednesday, June 12, 2013 - linkActually I do not believe it is possible to bind multiple tb ports to act as one. Reply
extide - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkYou are mixing up GigaBITS and GigBYTES.
Thunderbolt = 20Gbit = 2.5GigaByte
PCIe 3.0 x1 = 8Gbit = 1Gbyte
PCIe 3.0 x16 = 128Gbit = 16Gbyte Reply
vFunct - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkIt already has dual GPUs. There is no better possible upgrade.
Besides, you're supposed to upgrade both the GPU and CPU together. Pros upgrade their machines every 5 years anyways. They never upgrade the GPU separately.
I'm completely amazed that they put this much compute in such a small enclosure. Reply
Dman23 - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkYa, it is kind of amazing Reply
vFunct - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkdual-workstation GPUs in a system with a single fan?? WTF?
This system probably has the highest compute density of any system on the planet.
The PS4/Xbox One probably doesn't have the same level of compute per volume. Reply
lukarak - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkThis has less volume than Xbox One i think. And a few times more compute performance. Reply
tipoo - Monday, June 10, 2013 - link"Besides, you're supposed to upgrade both the GPU and CPU together. Pros upgrade their machines every 5 years anyways. They never upgrade the GPU separately."
...What? Some pros never upgrade the internals, some do. Say one needs to do lots of GPGPU work and two years down the line cards are so much more powerful for him it would be worth upgrading the video card, but not throwing out the whole computer. Reply
steven75 - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkWhat's this talk about "throwing out the whole computer" about? Unlike PCs, Mac Pros hold their value extremely well. Trade up if 2 year-old GPUs are that huge of a deal. Reply
vFunct - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkThe only pros that ever upgrade are the ones that didn't bother to get the top-end graphics card in their system in the first place.
The current Mac Pro pretty much has the same graphics card lineup for the last 3 years. Anyone that upgrades would have upgrade to something that was available 3 years ago.
Apple went ahead and made sure the default GPU was high-end enough so that you would never even THINK about upgrading, because you weren't given the option of buying the low-end card in the first place. Reply
Freakie - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkDid you miss the part about "Up to" in the graphics options? Apple always offers low end GPU's so your assessment of the GPU being "high-end" is false right off the start.
And to even say that the highest GPU they offer is "high-end enough" after saying that those who upgrade later never bothered to get the best to begin with is rather silly, because you're saying that what they offer is "enough" not that it's the best. They will not offer the best, and that's a fact. Especially seeing as, in the compute world, applications are so sensitive to what hardware they are running on that there is no "best".
And of course, the idea that a GPU that is 3 years old is some how not worth upgrading is also quite laughable. GPU's can change a lot in the time frame, and many people find that the massive gains they would get from the latest generation are well worth the investment. Reply
Freakie - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - link4 GPU's anyone? Pretty sure that's a better upgrade. Put it on a rackmount server and you have REAL compute density.
And no, you don't upgrade the CPU's and GPU's at the same time. There are MANY compute heavy tasks that are reliant on GPU's way more than CPU's. It's usually very cost ineffecient to upgrade CPU's on a GPU bound task, and therefor many people just upgrade GPU's (this is true for both professional compute and gaming). As for upgrade frequency, 5 years is really the max, most upgrade way more frequently than that. Reply
jeffkibuule - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkWhile GPUs have always taken the x16 slot, I don't think they really need it: http://www.anandtech.com/show/5458/the-radeon-hd-7... Reply
tipoo - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkThis is still internal PCI-E. Tomshardware found Thunderbolt had much bigger losses despite the speed. There's latency and other things involved. Reply
DanNeely - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkThe bandwidth constraint is less of an issue for GPU use. PCIe3.0 x2 isn't a problem for most games; only 2/8 games AT tested showed significant penalties at x2, and only one was hurt badly enough I'd consider it a showstopper. Where it's a potential killer is GpGpu workloads that need significant levels of back and forth communication with the CPU. Some (ex Einstein@Home) will take a significant slowdown even from only having an x8 slot on higher end GPUs.
I'm wondering though if multiple TB ports can be aggregated so that an enclosure with 2 TB connections could offer an effective x4 link.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5458/the-radeon-hd-7... Reply
tipoo - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkThis is still internal PCI-E. Tomshardware found Thunderbolt had much bigger losses despite the speed. There's latency and other things involved. Reply
CaedenV - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkWhat planet are you on? PCIe3 just came out last year and has a MAX bandwidth of 16Gbps (1Gbps x16 lanes). On top of that only the highest of high end single GPU cards on the market use up more than 8 lanes (8Gbps) of throughput, and even doubble GPU cards do not come close to maxing out the full 16Gbps, so there is plenty of room to grow. This means that you can easily add a duel GPU (single or doubble cards) setup via TB2 without issue, while still daisy chaining a massive HDD raid enclosure... and that is only on one of the three provided TB2 ports!
I am not exactly sure what one does with the other ports. I suppose you could just hook up 6 high end GPUs to it? I mean, if you have the money to blow on apple products then why not? Reply
konroh77 - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkMight want to read the comments above about the difference between Gbps and GBps. PCIe3 is GB and TB is Gb. Makes a big difference! Reply
tipoo - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkThunderbolt 2 is 20Gb/s, mind the little b. PCI-E 3.0 is 15.75 GB/s, big B. Multiply the latter by 8 to compare. Reply
psyq321 - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkCan you please stop mixing GigaBITS (Gbps / GBit/s) and GigaBYTES (GB/s).
PCIe 3.0 x16 is 16 GigaBYTES/s in one direction, which is 128 Gbps. Reply
Dman23 - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkLooks Amazing!! Can't wait for this to be tested with external power-house graphics cards through Thunderbolt 2. Looks like a Beast. Reply
Ryan Smith - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkI'm sorry, but I just can't take a "pro" computer with no internal expansion capabilities seriously. Whoever designed this clearly wasn't a computer user in the 80s and early 90s. Reply
joel4565 - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkI agree with you in principle that no computer should be a "pro" without expansion capabilities, but honestly how many mac pros ever saw an upgrade/expansion outside of ram/hard drive.
For better or worse that is the trend in modern computers. I know at my job, we almost never do upgrades to machines. They spend 3-4 years in the labs that need the most power, get wiped and repurposed else where in the building, rinse and repeat.
Its a similar debate to the removable battery for phones. Yes it is a nice feature, but how many people have ever bought a second battery for their phone? I have used cell phones since ~2000 and I don't think I have ever bought a secondary/replacement battery. Reply
rlkelly - Wednesday, June 12, 2013 - linkHave 3 right now. 10Gbe adapters for our video guys. As far as I know I need to buy a tb to pcie breakout box to for them if we ever go with the new mac pros. Reply
teakettle - Thursday, June 13, 2013 - linkI don't agree, but for the sake of the argument, even if it were true that very few people really used the mac pro to its full expansive potential, this is no argument to remove this potential.
There already is a line of Apple computers with limited upgradeability - and they're called imacs. Users who are happy with whatever comes out of the box, should be on imacs. Users who need more flexibility, should be on mac pro.
With this new design, users who need more flexibility out of their computer can never get it anymore. There's nothing good about that. It's a needless limitation and a downgrade of what used to be a top of the class line of machines.
If they continue in this direction I fear Apple may soon suffer a downfall like it did in the 90s, when advanced users moved to PCs by other vendors, because the self-absorbed and incompatible-with-anything-else toy computers made by Apple could no longer satisfy their needs. Reply
xinthius - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkGotta move with the times, it's the 10s now ;) Reply
name99 - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkReally. THAT's your analysis?
Perhaps you'd like to further enlighten us as to how no-one would call a computer "pro" if it doesn't have a punch card reader attached to it, or can't support at least four floppy drives?
The world moves on. Criticize the RAM expansion if you have a valid case. Criticize the TB expansion. But don't waste our time with some pathetic cri de coeur about how computers no longer look like they did when you were a youngster and everything was skittles and roses. Reply
Ryan Smith - Monday, June 10, 2013 - link2 words: cable hell. I know you youngin's don't have an appreciation for it right now, but having your disk drive, your modem, and your tape drive all external was a lot less fun than it sounds. The specific peripherals have changes over time of course, but the concept is the same. Core components that are rarely (if ever) replaced should be inside, where they are protected and move with the computer. Reply
Dman23 - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkBut as a Pro user, aren't you always upgrading your internal components to the latest and greatest hardware, wether that be a new Graphics Card or a faster SSD Card or heck, even a faster Optical Drive bay (if there is one)?? This whole "cable hell" thing is crap in my opinion. I'm old enough to remember desktops / workstations that had a lot of the capabilities of the computer outside, i.e. the modem, optical drive, and that was NEVER a problem for me. Yes, it might now look great and be a clean looking as say an All-In-One Desktop like an iMac but let's be real here, pro users have never really cared about how things look on a desktop. All they care about is Performance and if the new Mac Pro and TB2 are up to snuff, then who cares about a few extra cables. Reply
Freakie - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkI don't know a "pro" who doesn't care about peripheral cable hell. Everyone I know much prefers everything to be contained because peripherals are things that get changed so frequently that having to go through many cables to access the ports on your computer is extremely annoying. From what I've seen, people want as much as possible to be INSIDE the computer, which is where we get things memory card readers PCIe wireless cards that you can buy in form factors that integrate into the chassis. Having to connect storage through outside cables is particularly incredibly annoying. Pros have enough clutter as it is, it's ridiculous to start taking parts out of the computer and connecting them through ports to the outside... Reply
Dman23 - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkI have to agree with Joel here. Also, being a Pro user I like the ability to easily Rig my system based on the amount of Graphics Power my system needs and if TB 2 can my it even easier, due to its modular design, to swap out an older graphics card with a better more robust graphics card then what is the problem here?? To me it gives the convenience of of Plug-N-Play that you get with USB , with the power and throughput (which now is @ 20Gps both ways on TB2) you get with Thunderbolt. To me... it's a winner. Reply
tipoo - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkTB 2 has the same aggregate bandwidth at 1, it must merges two channels into one. Tomshardware found it limited even midrange GPUs. Reply
darkcrayon - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkHow much would that limit more "Rendering" based applications though? It still might be more than enough bandwidth for GPUs used in that configuration (in fact people have done that with Mac Minis - used a thunderbolt to PCI expansion chassis for After Effects GPU accelerated rendering). Reply
coder543 - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkDo we know what type of FirePros they will be? Hopefully GCN based. Reply
xinthius - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkJudging by the number of steam processors they are GCN based. Reply
Kevin G - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkGoing by the specs, they're FirePro W9000's.
The oddity is that only three 4K displays are supported even though there are six Thunderbolt ports. A single W9000 can drive six 4K displays via DP 1.2. With Falcon Ridge supporting DP 1.2 pass through, all of six of the TB ports should be able to provide 4K resolutions in addition to the HDMI 1.4 port. Reply
cubehacker - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkCertainly reminds me of the 10+ year old G4 Cube. Yes, its a cylinder instead of a cube - but the idea is generally the same. Reply
TEAMSWITCHER - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkIt's the Mac Pro "TUBE" Reply
MartinT - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkI think the word you're searching for is 'urn'. Reply
tipoo - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkI'm curious how much Thunderbolt will hamper the performance of external graphics? TB1 certainly did, I'm not sure how TB2 will be but the aggregate bandwidth is the same. Reply
TEAMSWITCHER - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkI think the DUAL GPU's (standard equipment in the Mac Pro Tube) obviate the need to use external graphics. Six thunderbolt ports are a bit overkill. They must expect that you will use two or more of them as display ports, 4K video capture, RAID box...etc. Reply
tipoo - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkGPUs aren't just about display ports...For GPGPU, it's inevitable that in just fewer years than you can count on one hand cards will already offer many times the performance. Reply
rlkelly - Wednesday, June 12, 2013 - linkBut gpgpu tends to be less bandwidth dependent then driving graphics. Reply
Haydon987 - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkSure are a good number of uninformed people commenting here. People will believe everything from Apple is awesome I suppose. Thunderbolt is not a good alternative for pro level graphics especially when multiple GPUs are involved. It can barely handle one, and not even the highest end cards at full speed. Make that two or more and you run into extreme limitations.
Another comment stated that nothing is better than 2 graphics cards (already included)... well actually cheaper PCs running any other OS can take 4 cards, though they may not look like a cylinder. I am aware of diminishing returns on more than 2 cards, but it's still true, especially where compute is concerned rather than graphics.
And seriously GB vs Gb... it's 2013. People should understand this by now.
And as to pro level people only upgrading every 5 years.... um.... no. While CPUs really haven't gotten enormously faster in that time, GPUs sure have. Anyone who's a "pro" running a 5 year old graphics card is going to be hurting to keep up unless they're only doing CPU intensive things. Reply
ltcommanderdata - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkHas it actually been determined that the internal GPUs are not upgradable? The chassis seems easy to open although it's unclear how easy the boards are to get out. Even if Apple doesn't bother providing first-party GPU upgrade options, nVidia and ATI have been directly selling their own GPUs to Mac Pro users for years and they would presumably be interested in continuing to do so in the future if the GPUs in the new design are accessible. It's a bit early to tell if future GPU updates are forced onto Thunderbolt. Maybe Anand can clarify this while he's at WWDC. Reply
rlkelly - Wednesday, June 12, 2013 - linkSince they seem to be a non standard format and the market for Mac Pro's is small so I can't really see anyone making third party cards for them. Reply
SunLord - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkThat sorta reminds me of the sweet little SGi 02 from the 90s... I like how it's blackish not white or silver like every other apple product which always annoyed me. Reply
DramaD - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkHopefully this will not fail like the G4 Cube. Consumers get wiggy if you go too far out there, with the design. Reply
tipoo - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkThe G4 cube failed because it was so much more expensive than the regular Power Mac G4, for no extra performance or features, just the design. We'll see what the situation with the new Pro is. But in this case, they won't even update the old chassis Pro along with it, so there's nothing to cannibalize its sales. Reply
rlkelly - Wednesday, June 12, 2013 - linkAnd it had cracking and overheating issues Reply
HisDivineOrder - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkIt's like the next gen version of the Cube to me. It's like Ives said, "I want to do something Jobs couldn't do."
So he set out to take his idea of simple basic shape and use modern technology to do what he couldn't do.
To which, I say, "Eh." I don't call this innovation because I don't see the value in the shape being different. It's just different. That doesn't make it better and there are a lot of reasons it's worse, so...
Not innovative. Just different. Reply
steven75 - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkDo you understand the cooling design? Reply
tipoo - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkYes, but what's better to a consumer about the cooling? The cooling design allows for the shape, the shape didn't follow the cooling design. The current mac Pro could already be quiet. Reply
Heathmoor - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkHow could you cool the current MacPro with only one fan? Reply
rlkelly - Wednesday, June 12, 2013 - linkYes I do. It is interesting, and I hope it is effective but it is not scalable. As a workstation, what the previous Mac Pro's were, it fails. By limiting it to one processor and only 4 memory slots they have ceded the high end workstation market to Dell and HP. Reply
BrazenRain - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkStick a whisk, a plunger, and a periscope on it and you have Apple's real plans to wipe out the competition. Reply
MTS - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkWhere is the power supply? Is it some big fugly walwart? Reply
MTS - Monday, June 10, 2013 - link's pretty impressive. Reply
MTS - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkNevermind. I see the A/C input. That's pretty impressive. Reply
cheinonen - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkThere's a standard IEC power port on the back, below the HDMI port. Reply
MTS - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkThis looks like something you could get sent to you from the drive thru at the bank. You send in $3500, the bank shoots out a Mac Pro via their tube. Reply
frogger4 - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkMan. The thermal profile just scares me. That's at least 100W of CPU and likely 400W of GPU heat that has to be removed. It looks fresh air is sucked in the top and exhausted out the bottom - I suppose the whole center of the chassis is heatsink. At any rate, I like the design but it will be either loud or toasty hot. Reply
slippysoup - Monday, June 10, 2013 - linkApple's site has some good pictures of the "thermal core". Basically the whole center of the tube is a triangular heat sink with a GPU or CPU on each face. The fan on top draws air from the bottom, through the heat sink and out the top. I'm not much of an Apple fan but I have to admit that the cooling design is really elegant. We'll see how it works in practice though. Reply
JDG1980 - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkProbably the closest thing in the DIY PC market is the SilverStone FT02, with its stack-effect cooling design enabled by rotating the motherboard 90 degrees. Tests show it does extremely well on thermals, at least if you select appropriate heatsinks and orient them properly (so the intake air goes through the fins rather than being blocked by them). I suspect you could get away with just using the intake fans on a reasonably good CPU and GPU if you had coolers with wide-spaced fins like the HR-02 Macho and Accelero S1 Plus. In fact, I'm going to try something like this for my next build. Reply
Spoony - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkIn the top and out the bottom would be horrible. The G4 Cube was convection cooled, that is to say it used the natural movement of hot air upwards to suck cool air in the bottom and create an effective fanless cooler.
This is another take on that concept. Cool air is sucked in the bottom, through the fins in the thermal core. They have a puller turbine which blows the hot air out the top. The natural convection combined with turbine assist tends to make this sort of design very efficient and quiet.
With the machine idle you can probably stop the fan entirely. Fan speed required to expel 500-600W of heat wouldn't be higher than 1500rpm or so (educated guess), and probably even slower. It is a neat design, but as we can all see a tremendous number of custom parts are required to make it work. Reply
Carl Bicknell - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkIt only supports 1 Xeon CPU.
That's a desktop, not a workstation.
My current Dell Precision is more powerful than this. Reply
xinthius - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - link12 Cores, it supports dual Xeons. Reply
iamthatguy - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkThat's what they say, but I seriously cannot see where the second socket it. It's really confusing.
On their website (http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/) on the exploded view about the single heatsink, there is clearly one CPU and two GPU's.
It really looks like it can only fit one socket. Reply
fteoath64 - Monday, June 24, 2013 - linkIt is possible and it means REPLACING a complete board off this machine. You can see that there are really two large boards and a smaller power-supply board in the triangular formation. Smaller bits like ram runs off the main board. The cpu seems "bolted" to the main board so it will be very expensive. ie buy 1/3 of a new machine rather than a new cpu. The new IVB Xeons they are using has 12 cores with hypertreading, so Apple records this is enough for this "workstation" so liken as a desktop really considering the design to be placed on a table rather than on a floor. Reply
jamyryals - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkIt's 12 Cores in one socket. The IVB-E has a 12 Core variant. Reply
tipoo - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkNope, IVB-E supports 12 core chips and this only has one socket for the processor, the two other faces are the two GPUs. Reply
psyq321 - Wednesday, June 12, 2013 - linkLike other people say, it is going to be a single-socket Ivy Bridge EP (Xeon E5 2600 v2).
Most probably they will use one of the lower-TDP ones. Reply
Carl Bicknell - Wednesday, June 12, 2013 - linkIf they use one of the lower TDP ones then that's even worse, they will get well left behind by companies fitting their workstations with dual E5 v2 Xeons for 24 cores running well over 3 Ghz. Meanwhile R2-D2 here will hobble along with 12 cores probably at 2.5 - 3GHz.
What they've basically done is built a very fancy Mac Mini. That's great, but it's not a Mac Pro.
They should have also made a larger version with much greater hardware possibilities of multiple CPUs, multiple harddrives, optical drives etc etc. Reply
GotThumbs - Tuesday, June 11, 2013 - linkIt looks very cool. Apple always does have great visual designs in their products, but I just don't like proprietary designs. As someone who has built every computer I've owned since my first 486 DX system, I'll pass on owning one of these. It will be interesting to see how many people buy it without really needing that kind of computing power. Reply
fteoath64 - Monday, June 24, 2013 - linkMine was 286-8Mhz!. Actually started with the original 8088 clone machines that are large desktop cases with twin floppy drives. And those form factors have not changed much in over 2.5 decades!. Many will buy the machine just because they "think" they are up for an upgrade and it seems the only option for them. There are few people who would proper research the options available to them. Reply
teakettle - Thursday, June 13, 2013 - linkWhat offends me the most, as a years long Mac Pro user, is the fact they've obviously ditched the philosophy of the Mac Pro line.
Part of the beauty in owning a Mac Pro, apart from the fact it's a mighty machine, beautifully designed which runs a fancy system like OSX, has always been the fact that unlike the toys we call imacs, the mac pro is highly configurable and extendable. You can modify its hardware to your heart's liking, and to me that has always been a sign of respect towards the user - there's nothing I hate more than being treated as a moron incapable of doing anything other than pushing the ON button.
Reading the description of this new design - I can just say one thing: this is not a Mac Pro. I don't know what it is, but a Mac Pro it isn't. It's more like an imac with a testosterone injection, except uglier and taking up more space.
I think Mac Pro just died. Reply
ElvenLemming - Thursday, June 13, 2013 - linkAll indications prior to this were that the Mac Pro line was already dead anyway. This may be a disrespectful consolation to a lot of people, but it's better than nothing.
Modern Apple's philosophy has always been elegance and function over user expandability. If anything, the Mac Pro was a striking exception to that rule. I don't see how anyone could be surprised that Apple would go this route. Reply
lukarak - Friday, June 14, 2013 - linkWhat part of extendable with Thunderbolt don't you understand? There are many more things on the back of this Mac Pro aside from the power button, all serving for extending its capabilities. Reply
Wolfpup - Thursday, June 13, 2013 - linkThe design is, as typical, striking. But now it shares the same flaw as every other Apple product-it's horrible or impossible to service/upgrade.
Apple still needs normal desktop systems at normal prices, and they still need a high end M17x-like notebook. Yes they sell the Macbook Pro at high end prices (it's more expensive than I paid for my GTX 680 equipped M17x), but it's mid range hardware. Reply
maratus - Tuesday, June 18, 2013 - linkM17x-like notebook will always be a niche product, there's absolutely zero point to make a gaming-oriented notebook with Mac OS onboard. I don't care about regular MBP, but MBPR 15" is superior in almost every other aspect but raw GPU power (with CPU performance being more or less equal). It has vastly superior screen, better trackpad, is also much thinner, lighter and has better battery life. All this with state-of-the-art quad core, 16GB Ram and fast mid-range 650M. In fact, GPU is the only real mid-range thing and certainly not because of price issue. Reply
Oscarcharliezulu - Friday, July 12, 2013 - linkI want one if it comes with a transparent case. Reply
Risas - Thursday, July 18, 2013 - linkWell come to the nighmare machine if you need another PCI-Ex Card for some apps like ProTools, Avid... What's the solution? buy a thunderbolt PCI Ex enclosure and spend $$$ for the design whim. That's the Apple fan way of life... Reply