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Oct. 14, 2011
Third Texas Native Plant Week Celebrated Statewide
AUSTIN — With Texas in what is predicted to be an extended drought, Texas Native Plant Week Oct. 16-22 provides a great time to celebrate plants adapted to the state's weather extremes.
The awareness week slogan is "Proud Texans Plant Texas Natives." It is sponsored by the Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center of The University of Texas at Austin, the National Wildlife Federation and Texas Parks and Wildlife. Among the week's statewide activities during the fall planting season are educational talks, garden tours and other opportunities to get outdoors to learn more about native plants.
To celebrate the wildflowers and other native plants that form the backbone of the state's iconic landscapes, Dallas residents can attend a nature walk Oct. 16, at Twelve Hills Nature Center, and visitors to the State Fair all weekend can ask master naturalists about a garden they developed on site. The Garland chapter of the Native Plant Society of Texas offers a talk Oct. 16 by an insect expert. Visitors to Estero Llano Grande State Park in Hidalgo can take a nature tour on an electric tram that afternoon. Austin residents can learn about native plant propagation at a Native Plant Society meeting at Wild Basin the evening of Oct. 18, and gain free entry to hear the Wildflower Center's horticulture director talk about native plants on the evening of Oct. 20, after a tour of the gardens.
More details about these activities, expert talks and lists of reliable native plants to use in yards are among the offerings in the "Urban Events and Native Info" section of the website for Texas Native Plant Week, developed by the National Wildlife Federation: http://txnativeplantweek.org/.
The site also lists suppliers of native plants and seeds, articles and other topics and information, including how to identify a plant as an aggressive, non-native one that competes with native plants for resources.
Native trees, shrubs, wildflowers, vines and grasses are often hardier than non-native plants since they are adapted to the soils and conditions of Texas. Native plants also are better able to provide food and shelter to beneficial wildlife such as songbirds and butterflies. Yet they typically require less water, chemicals and labor to maintain. Moreover, native plants provide the state's regional landscapes with their unique identities.
Texas Native Plant Week began in 2009 as a partnership of the Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center, the Native Plant Society of Texas, and others. TPWD and the National Wildlife Federation joined the partnership in 2010.
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All the Single Ladies
With four gold medals, one bronze, and two world records set at the London Olympics, 17-year-old Missy Franklin is America's Great Wet Hope now that Michael Phelps has retired. But Franklin isn't so sure. "I don't think his shoes will ever be filled," she said this week. "I think his footsteps are huge." And she should know. The 6'1" swimmer has size 13 feet, which her father calls her "built-in flippers." And as she told NBC's Michelle Beadle, "I'm proud of my size 13 feet. They're definitely hard to find shoes for, which isn't the best, and I absolutely hate going shoe shopping—because everything is so cute, but nothing ever fits."
If Elle Macpherson is self-conscious about her reported size 12 feet, she didn't show it when she hosted Saturday Night Live in 1996. During a sketch with Jim Breuer, the 6-foot-tall supermodel played an unappealing blind date who complains of "a corn or a blister or something" and shoves her bare foot in his face. "What, this here?" Breuer asks, trying to be a good sport with his beautiful companion. "No, that's my wart." But he still has eyes of love. "You know what," he tells Macpherson, "you have really nice feet." She scowls and sniffs them. "Yeah, nice and smelly."
Traveling with Nary Manivong

subset: commoncrawl


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Floating point peak performance of Kaveri and other recent AMD and Intel chipsby Rahul Garg on 1/22/2014 8:30 AM EST
102 Comments
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MrSpadge - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkThanks, such articles are really appreciated! Reply
Wolfpup - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkI concur :) Reply
ImSpartacus - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkThirdeded. Reply
GrammarNietzsche - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkIs this comparison fair from a pricing perspective? This is comparing the less than $200 kaveri to the over $300 i7. Reply
rahulgarg - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkThis is an architectural comparison. If you want to compare to a dual-core Haswell, you can just divide the per-cycle CPU numbers by 2 and multiply by frequency to get the theoretical gflops. Reply
Alexvrb - Thursday, January 23, 2014 - linkYou should also post results with clocks not artificially locked to base CPU and max GPU. One of the benefits of newer generations is improved turbo, for example. Not like it really matters, anyone could tell at a glance that this isn't what they are targeting with Kaveri. With that being said, it was still an interesting read.
On a semi-related note: What I'd really like to see is Kaveri gaming results with faster memory and an overclocked GPU. I'd bet it outscales Richland. Reply
aruisdante - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkIt's for HPC. In HPC applications, upfront cost is irrelevant, it's performance per Watt that matters. The longterm costs in electricity/cooling will eclipse the upfront costs of the CPU quite rapidly. And in performance per Watt Intel is literally miles ahead. Reply
SunLord - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkWhat does HPC have to do with GPU performance though? Especially when you consider the i7-4770R. If one is going to do HPC they would be using a Ivy Bridge-E processor with real GPUs. Reply
Klimax - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkBit older and IIRC unconfirmed:
http://www.cpu-world.com//news_2013/2013112001_Bro... Reply
Klimax - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkDamnit, replied to wrong comment. Reply
MrSpadge - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkThe question the article tries to answer, theoretically, is "how capable is Kaveri for raw number crunching compared to several alternatives". And that's exactly what this could have to do with HPC.. if the numbers were better. At DP with 1/16th SP I don't think Kaveri is going anywhere in classic HPC. Could be used in special SP applications with HSA, though. Reply
aruisdante - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkYes and no. There are plenty of places such as in academia where you might have computers in rack-mounts without room for dedicated GPU, but are doing HPC-like workloads.
I agree that the use-case range is small, but that was kind of the conclusion of the article. Even with a (relatively speaking) beefy semi-discrete GPU in it, Kavari still falls short of the performance you can get out of the Haswells with Iris Pro. Reply
MySchizoBuddy - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkyou cannot use iris pro for opencl Reply
JarredWalton - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkYet. Reply
BMNify - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkyou cant ?
http://pocl.sourceforge.net/ Reply
rahulgarg - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkIris Pro has an OpenCL driver for Windows. Reply
nafhan - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - link1. Intel's top iGPU vs. AMD's - seems reasonable to me.
2. As you've shown, people who actually buy these things are aware of the price disparity. Reply
BMNify - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkoc apart from this being an architectural comparison these kaveri are the best amd officially make for the desktop as are the i7's from Intel, you simply cant buy anything better from AMD for the desktop, if they are not making what you the end consumer want to buy, then no sale=no profit for them this time alround. Reply
Death666Angel - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkKaveri are still only the best AMD APUs. A 2 module APU does not translate to the best AMD has to offer for the desktop, FX processors are still much better if you are going to get a dedicated GPU. You wouldn't call the i7 4770K the best Intel has to offer, would you? There is a whole range of 2011 socket CPUs. Reply
nathanddrews - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkIs there any indication that GT3e will trickle down to non-H/R Haswell CPUs? Or that Broadwell will expand GT3e technology (in some form) to the rest of the Intel lineup? As of right now, GT3e may as well be vaporware as you can only get it in expensive, limited configurations. Kaveri spans the whole AMD product line at significantly lower cost, but then gets its butt kicked by similarly-priced Intel+dGPU setups. I would really like it if GT3e gets a lot cheaper and more widespread while Kaveri gets a lot more potent.
Wake me up in two years. Reply
tipoo - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkI sure hope it's more common with Broadwell. GT3E is a decent performer, I do wish it would make its way to 13" laptops. Reply
Klimax - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkBit older and IIRC unconfirmed:
http://www.cpu-world.com//news_2013/2013112001_Bro... Reply
lefty2 - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkIndeed. The 4770R is only available to OEMs and more, or less unobtainable. Even if you could get your hands on one, you wouldn't want to. Firstly, it comes with a huge price tag, secondly you lose 2M of cache.. that effectively makes it a core i5. Reply
SunLord - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkIt's OEM only because it's totally worthless any other way as it's a BGA only part :( Reply
Shadowmaster625 - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkSo that huge GPU in kaveri cant even outperform an ivy let alone a haswell in terms of fp64/cycle. Why/how is AMD still in business? Reply
jabber - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkOh I can imagine that's always the first question asked when anyone walks into a Best Buy etc. to buy a new PC. I know it keeps me awake at night. Meanwhile back in the real world... Reply
nathanddrews - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkThe key to AMD's success with Kaveri will come on budget mobile notebooks and SFF, where the lack of a dGPU would heavily tilt the gaming advantage to AMD. While Intel HD4000/4600 can game pretty well at 768p, Kaveri would steamroll it and be competent up to 900p... assuming Broadwell IGP doesn't greatly improve. Reply
YuLeven - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkI'm not so sure just yet. I'm hoping for a strong Kaveri on laptops, but past experiences with Llano, Trinnity and Richland showed the clear desktop win from AMD APU's quickly eroding on portable due power constraints.
This year, the gap is much smaller with strong contenders as HD 5000 and HD 5100 in many laptops. I'm not entirely sure about Kaveri's uphand in graphics performance will be large enough to justify the considerable loss of CPU performance and battery life (assuming that Kaveri will perform as poorly against Haswell as it's older brothers did). And then, Kaveri mobile will come just months before Broadwell, which is said to improve GPUs by quite a bit. Reply
PEJUman - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkI have a A6-1450 11.6" laptop that supposed to be a 9W 'SoC' with 30Wh battery.
I also have a i3 ivy bridge 11.6" tablet that supposed to be a 17/14W 'SoC with 54Wh battery.
Expected the A6 to be 60-70% of the i3 battery life based on a light load usage pattern. Got only about 40% of the i3 life.
Rough calculation ended up with around 10W/hour average power consumption on the A6
average power consumption of 5W/hour on the i3.
Considering I only paid $280 for the A6 and $450 for the i3, I am still quite happy with it.
but can't help but wonder if AMD's SDP/TDP is very different compared to intel's.
To my understanding TDP means the max amount of heat you need to dissipate to keep everything running smoothly. Based on that understanding and the 15W power range, you can let the CPU/APU run hotter (thus rejecting 2-3W worth of heat into surrounding pieces: package, motherboard, case, etc) with the same heatsink TDP. Reply
Death666Angel - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkCan't really draw any conclusions from that. The SoC/APU/CPU is usually a very tiny amount of energy draw in modern laptops/tablets. The display accounts for most of the power usage and if there is even a small amount of brightness difference or indeed manufacturer difference, that can account for you scenario easily. Reply
TheinsanegamerN - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkive noticed the same thing. gaming wise, the desktop a10 trinity creamed ivy bridge. on mobile, though, the performance difference was only 18% higher in favor of amd. with haswell, intel hits the same performance as mobile richland a10s in games, and ets better battery life to boot.
on the other hand, the performance of the 45 watt a8-7600 makes me hopefull that amd will give us another 45 watt mobile fusion apu that would be as fast as the desktop version. Reply
YuLeven - Thursday, January 23, 2014 - linkI'm dreaming on that too. It would be a shame if mobile Kaveri took the same huge performance hit that it's older brothers saw when moving from desktop to mobile.
If history repeats itself, I think Broadwell will hit Kaveri-M very hard, relegating it to the same shady spot on poor budget designs that llano, trinnity and richland where. I would love to see an AMD APU performing strong on a good laptop. If Kaveri-M ever threats Broadwell, at least for gaming-focused folk, it would cause the healthy impact that competition causes on Intel. Lower prices, better parts. Reply
toyotabedzrock - Friday, January 24, 2014 - linkIf you want to know what is in store for Broadwell you have to watch the Linux kernel mailing lists or read a certain site that watches the video driver commits like a hawk.
Intel has already been adding support for the broadwell gpu for some time. For Linux 3.14 they started adding the framework for a new Cpu feature in skylake and broadwell audio support.
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=home Reply
Bob Todd - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkHopefully, but that requires design wins which they have been sorely lacking compared to Intel. And AMD seems practically non-existent in the SFF space. Where is their NUC? Hell, where are their mITX boards? Newegg shows a whopping 3 FM2+ mITX boards and 2 FM2 boards. Intel has 24 just for Haswell, and another 19 for Sandy/Ivy. Reply
npz - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkgaming = fp32, 3D rendering = fp32, multimedia = fp32, CAD = fp32, good-enough precision scientific and engineering = fp32
This includes SmallLuxGPU, Blender, Sony Vegas, HitFilm, etc
In any case, the fp64 performance is always artificially capped for consumer GPUs. If they really wanted to, they could just uncap it. Of course they'd be shooting themselves with no reason for pros to buy the much more expensive workstation/compute cards. Reply
BMNify - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - link90% multimedia = int32, int16,int8 actually Reply
wumpus - Saturday, February 08, 2014 - linkgood-enough precision scientific and engineering = fp32
Be careful there. 32 bits are more than enough for any straightforward calculation. Any calculation that requires multiple iterations or multiple points (especially anything nonlinear or based on boundary conditions) is going to fail badly with 32 points.
Double is needed due to accumulated rounding errors. It has nothing to do with significant figures (just how often do you have the 7 or so [decimal] figures a float can have). Try running an audio sample through a 64k point FFT to get a good idea what can happen if you need proof.
As far as capping for consumer use, I have to wonder about that. Obviously, the 780 is capped (although how useful a titan is for calculations that require double without the ECC of the even more expensive variety is questionable), but I have to wonder since using some of the weaker GPUs wouldn't be cost effective considering the entire cost of the motherboard slot (motherboard, ram, CPU, power supply, some sort of boot disk...). I wouldn't be at all surprised if they are cheating a bit on the rounding of the float. Like the double, full IEEE754 isn't remotely useful to consumers (this might barely change with more HSA apps). One of the more painful parts of 754 is that the last bit of a multiply has to be rounded from the entire 112 bits of mantissa you get when you multiply two 56 bit mantissas together. Wimping out on float and doing doubles by the book (almost everyone who cares about rounding uses double) could easily make double 1/12 of float. Reply
sanaris - Saturday, March 01, 2014 - linkDear noob. Do not mix yourself with scientific community cause you do not belong to it.
Scientific community does not think it needs any float numbers at all.
It should be at least doubles, but preferably quad numbers. Reply
sanaris - Saturday, March 01, 2014 - linkI was obviously to upper post. 32 bit precision is a complete useless thing in any computation. Most useful is 128 bit. Reply
MrSpadge - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkYou know with DP at 1/16th SP they're not even trying. They could easily go up to 1/4th, though. Reply
wumpus - Saturday, February 08, 2014 - linkMaybe, maybe not. I suspect they aren't trying, but I wouldn't write any code that expected strict IEE754 rounding in single (crypto, perhaps). Strict rounding needs close to 4 times the multiplies that you would need for an unrounded multiply, so they could be wimping out there.
Personally, I'd rather have more floats that are off by a bit than strict 754 rounding on my floats, but can't see doing it as long as there are claims of "IEEE754" compatibility. Violating 754 has a *long* history (there have been plenty of -754strict compiler flags that kill performance), and there are plenty of ways to weasel a datasheet, but violating a spec is something an engineer *does* *not* *do*. When a careful engineer sees something like this, he won't go near the edge conditions (and rounding and the other 754 nastiness is about as edge condition as you can get). Reply
KenLuskin - Saturday, January 25, 2014 - linkKaveri was NOT created to be high priced chip.
Kaveri was NOT even created to be a desktop chip.
Kaveri was designed for laptops, but with enough GPU to run AAA games.
Kaveri is designed to be AFFORDABLE for very low priced laptops.
Most people do NOT need any more speed out of their CPU.
But, they would like the ability to run AAA games.
Kaveri 45 Watt for $120 blows away an i3 at $130 in grahics!
And that is without MANTLE! Reply
sanaris - Saturday, March 01, 2014 - linkNoone of laptop users needs direct access from shader units to caches.
Any of real laptop users will buy Intel with NVidia descrete card, because they are supported with Linux. Reply
toyotabedzrock - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkI noticed both the companies gpu's are slower than the cpu for fp64. Reply
tipoo - Thursday, January 23, 2014 - linkProbably because DP floating point calculations are crippled, so those who need it buy the full FirePro or Quadro parts. Reply
sanaris - Saturday, March 01, 2014 - linkI have card with "unbound" DP performance. It is complete brick. It says it should get 400 gigaflops, but in reality It does Prime95 about 24 msec/iter. When Opteron 110W chip does it twice faster - about 12 msec.
All AMD GPU efforts are turned into bricks cause they fail to test their designs with real software.
Very bad AMD does not move into 32 core opteron chips cause that is what I need now. Reply
HalloweenJack - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkIris Pro - FCBGA ONLY and OEM.... so why are you testing it anyway??? Reply
MrSpadge - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkBecause it exists. Don't shout at AT for listing it but rather at Intel for not giving it to us. Reply
HalloweenJack - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkno , its pointless from AT for testing it - might as well get a 16 core G34 opteron for multithread as an `oooh shiny`... Reply
DigitalFreak - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkWhy are you AMD fanboys always so butthurt? Reply
wumpus - Saturday, February 08, 2014 - linkTo show how badly 8 floating point cores running at half speed will do? I think we know that already. Reply
BMNify - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkyou bitching because you cant afford it so dont want it tested or what ?
as already said it exists https://www.system76.com/laptops/model/galu1
its been benched for both windows and linux os http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&...
by all accounts its ok, i wish Intel would OC put it's followup on their mainstream mid/high i somethings and also improve its data throughput compared to that above linked test, we shall see when it arrives or not... Reply
michael2k - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkCan you compare Kaveri to the Bay Trail parts? The J2850 is a quad core part, though only 2.41GHz. It appears that the BT parts might be more congruent, if weaker GPU wise, in terms of CPU perf:
http://hothardware.com/Reviews/Betting-On-Bay-Trai... Reply
rahulgarg - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkThat review has major errors. The AMD APU they are testing (A4-5000) is not Kaveri at all even they keep calling it Kaveri. A4-5000 is actually the low-end Kabini. Kaveri is MUCH faster than Bay Trail. Reply
BMNify - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkoc Bay Trail even the quad has been crippled as it does NOT have AVX/AVX2 SIMD only at best SSE4 / SSE4.1 + SSE4.2 / Streaming SIMD Extensions 4 Reply
ash9 - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkTurning off turboboost may not compare equally if Kaveri's turbo core attributes 100% towards its productivity. Reply
MrSpadge - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkThe problem with Turbo is that you can't be sure about which frequency will be achieved. So on what shall the calculations be based? The base clock is guaranteed, and scaling the result for that number up for higher clocks is trivial. Reply
Death666Angel - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkIs it guaranteed though? Seems like if your cooling is crap, any processor might throttle. And if your cooling is good, any processor might run its turbo 100% of the time. Mine always to anyway (AMD and Intel alike). Reply
Hrel - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkWow, such speed, much compute.
Amazing how far Intel has come with their integrated graphics. Reply
TeXWiller - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkIt feels like the Kaveri execution resources have been scaled to the capacity of the memory interface considering the GPU requirements. Haswell might benefit really nicely from the four-channel DDR4 interface as well. Reply
Death666Angel - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkWhat 4 channel DDR4 interface? Reply
TeXWiller - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkThe memory interface of the Haswell-E. Reply
BMNify - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkthat's interesting and combined with is these latest phoronix tests for variable TDP testing http://openbenchmarking.org/embed.php?i=1401184-PL... and the related RAM speed tests http://openbenchmarking.org/embed.php?i=1401184-PL... it looks very odd they didn't add more bandwidth to feed both cpu and gfx on their best desktop kaveri APU's Reply
BMNify - Thursday, January 23, 2014 - linkAMD Kaveri OpenCL Compared To Radeon & GeForce GPUs On Linux
Published on 23 January 2014
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&... doesn't look to good ether
http://openbenchmarking.org/embed.php?i=1401193-PL... Reply
lmcd - Friday, January 24, 2014 - link"On Linux" Reply
BMNify - Friday, January 24, 2014 - linkyeah , that kernel thing that runs on all the 1.81 billion mobile phone sales for all of 2013 not counting all of the other android devices today OC. Reply
BMNify - Friday, January 24, 2014 - linkand you are aware that the AMD linux Radeon closed source driver as used here is considered to be on par with the windows driver as they use the same code base, and did you forget that kaveri and it's little slower brothers are supposed to be found in the mobile android devices running that kernel etc some day if they manage to get actual orders there to offset their lower windows PC sales today. Reply
moozoo - Wednesday, January 22, 2014 - linkThank you for this article.
The reason the Intel GPU's don't have fp64 under opencl is because the math instruction that includes intrinsics and division doesn't support fp64. see page 134 of Intel Open Source Graphics Programmer's Reference Manual for the 2013 Intel Core Processor Family...: Volume 2b.
From what I can tell GPU's have a larger number of intrinsics with greater numerical accuracy than AVX. Intel isn't correcting this until AVX-512 (see chapter 7.2 of the "Intel Architecture Instruction Set Extensions Programming Reference" and note the "less than 2^-23 relative error). I believe the normal accuracy is 2^-14.
AVX does not have a native fp64 rsqrt.
The native log and exp for Hawaii is precise to 1 ULP (http://semiaccurate.com/2013/10/23/long-look-amds-...
The Intel OpenCL will not generate AVX2 FMA instructions.
I assume the native AVX2 FMA is not compliant with Opencl requirements in someway.
There may be a Workstation version of Kaveri on the way. This might have a better fp64:fp32 ratio than 1:16 (http://semiaccurate.com/2013/06/18/a-glimpse-of-fu... Reply
kantian - Thursday, January 23, 2014 - linkWhy don't you specify that CPU fpu64 numbers of Intel are for AVX2 instructions, but not for AVX? In this way you give unjust performance advantage to Intel! Intel CPU fpu64 has about 2x performance advantage over AMD fpu64 only with AVX2 instructions. That's why, your following statement seems quite untrue:
"As a comparison point, one core in Haswell has the same floating point performance per cycle as two modules (or four cores) in Steamroller." Reply
kantian - Thursday, January 23, 2014 - linkYou can look at the following chart - http://images.hardwarecanucks.com/image//skymtl/CP... for some comparison numbers and examples. As you can see the FPU (VP8) results of the Haswell i3-4330 are about 2x than that of Kaveri A10-7850k. However the older FPU Ivy Bridge i3-3225 results are similar to that of A10-7850k. That's because the new Haswell processors have AVX2 instructions, but not the Ivy Bridge ones. You can also see that, if you compare the VP8 i7-4770K results to i7-3770K ones. That's why, i7-4770 has twice more performance than i7-3770K. Reply
rahulgarg - Thursday, January 23, 2014 - linkFrom a floating point perspective, the only difference between AVX and AVX2 is that AVX2 contains FMA instructions while AVX does not. Kaveri/Steamroller do not support full AVX2 but do support FMA instructions. So, from a floating point perspective, Kaveri/Steamroller and Haswell support almost the same instruction set. if you look at the column, AVX with FMA, we already cover this case. Reply
kantian - Thursday, January 23, 2014 - linkThank you for your clarification! But as far as I know, Intel Haswell architecture has FMA 256 bit units compared to Ivy Bridge and Kaveri, etc., which have 128 bit FMA ones. That's the only Haswell's FPU big architectural advantage over the others. That can explain the double performance per FPU module, we can observe on the chart I have posted. And as you say, the AVX2 includes FMA instructions, where the big performance advantage is. However I cannot understand your table, where the regular AVX instructions have 4x advantage over Kaveri. As we can see on the chart (http://images.hardwarecanucks.com/image//skymtl/CP... the practical results show different picture. Haswell's FPU advantage over Kaveri (counting the same number of FPUs) is about 50% - 60%, but not more. Reply
rahulgarg - Thursday, January 23, 2014 - linkYes, well, our coverage is more about the theoretical peaks. In practical applications, differences will be smaller.
About the 4x advantage of AVX over Kaveri, the difference is that each Haswell core has two 256-bit units. Thus, quad-core Haswell has total of eight 256-bit units.
Steamroller modules only have two 128-bit units per module. Thus, quad-core Steamroller only has four 128-bit units. Thus, Haswell has twice the number of SIMD units and each unit is double the width, hence the 4x difference. Reply
kantian - Thursday, January 23, 2014 - linkThank you! I can absolutely agree with your calculations. However, I always thought that it is more accurately to compare the quad-core two-module Steamroller or Piledrivers with i3 2 core 4 thread processors. Because, as we know, the AMD quad-core processors have only 2 FPU and 4 Integer units. So they are only 2 core regarding the FPU and quad-core integer. I think the AMD definition for quad-core (or any other number of cores) is not quite correct. But that is another story... Reply
kantian - Thursday, January 23, 2014 - linkAnd I think that your comment "About the 4x advantage of AVX over Kaveri, the difference is that each Haswell core has two 256-bit units. Thus, quad-core Haswell has total of eight 256-bit units." is just partly correct. Because those units are 256-bit FMA units. And FMA instructions are part of AVX2, but not AVX. That was the subject of my initial comment. Reply
rahulgarg - Thursday, January 23, 2014 - linkAFAIK, the 256-bit units in Haswell can be used for non-FMA AVX ops as well. Reply
kantian - Thursday, January 23, 2014 - linkTrue. A non-FMA AVX op will provide one 128 bit vector to one 256-bit unit at a time. But is it possible that it can provide two different 128 bit vectors in parallel, in order to take advantage of the full 256-bit unit potential? AFAIK, it is not. Reply
rahulgarg - Thursday, January 23, 2014 - linkAVX includes 256-bit ops for both FMA and non-FMA. So there is a 256-bit add operation for example. Reply
kantian - Thursday, January 23, 2014 - linkIn that cases you are right. Reply
kantian - Friday, January 24, 2014 - linkFollowing our discussion so far, I think, you have errors in your numbers for the CPU floating-point peak performance of Ivy Bridge 3770K processor. The AVX FMA units in Ivy Bridge processors are 128 bit. Only Haswell ones are 256 bit, which gives the 4x multiplier to Steamroller numbers. That means the following numbers in the table are not correct:
- AVX fp32 (/cycle) - 64, correct 32
- AVX fp64 (/cycle) - 32, correct 16
- AVX fp32 (gflops), correct 112
- AVX fp64 (gflops), correct 56 Reply
BMNify - Thursday, January 23, 2014 - linki dont see your point ! it seems AMD where all over the shop wjile intel did one change so far
"May 2009: AMD changes the specification of their FMA instructions from the 3-operand DREX form to the 4-operand VEX form, compatible with the April 2008 Intel specification rather than the December 2008 Intel specification.[9]
October 2011: AMD Bulldozer processor supports FMA4.[10]
January 2012: AMD announces FMA3 support in future processors codenamed Trinity and Vishera; they are based on the Piledriver architecture.[11]
May 2012: AMD Piledriver processor supports both FMA3 and FMA4.[10]
June 2013: Intel Haswell processor supports FMA3.[12]
It is currently uncertain whether the 3-operand VEX coded form (here called FMA3) or the 4-operand form (FMA4) will be the dominating standard in the future."
the only thing that really matters OC is the fact that Different compilers provide different levels of support for FMA4:
GCC supports FMA4 with -mfma4 since version 4.5.0[13] and FMA3 with -mfma since version 4.7.0
NASM supports FMA3 instructions since version 2.03 and FMA4 instructions since 2.06.
YAsm supports FMA3 and FMA4 instructions since version 1.1.0. Reply
kantian - Thursday, January 23, 2014 - linkThe non-FMA AVX ops are currently the most widely used vector instructions in the x86 applications. The newer AVX2 ones are not widely adopted, and thus have just tiny share. The non-FMA AVX 128 bit operands are executed using 256 bit FMA units in Haswell, but take no advantage of those 256 bits, as the 256 bit FMA unit can execute only one 128 bit operand at a time. That's why the 256 bit FMA units in Haswell give performance advantage only for FMA AVX 256 bit ops (AVX2), but not for the widely adopted non-FMA AVX ops. That is what I think and can explain in simple terms. Reply
milli - Friday, January 24, 2014 - linkIt's because AMD originally planned to support SSE5 with BD.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSE5 Reply
silverblue - Saturday, January 25, 2014 - linkWell, AMD drew up SSE5, and instead had to implement it differently in order to offer compatibility with AVX. Has AMD ever created an instruction set that Intel has adopted, besides AMD64? Reply
Th-z - Thursday, January 23, 2014 - linkAMD is shooting itself in the foot if it doesn't have a Kaveri with full GPU FP64 capability similar to 7970. Together with HSA, it should be powerful for a new breed of applications that require FP64. It's a window of opportunity for them to popularize this product in HPC. In gaming, it also requires a "killer app" that utilizes HSA and iGPU to assist new techniques in rendering, e.g renderings that require dependency, compute-based rendering, and interactive GPU physics, and coupled with a dGPU only for rendering. Reply
silverblue - Thursday, January 23, 2014 - linkYes, but is it required for the target market? Reply
jabber - Thursday, January 23, 2014 - linkExactly. Thing is as AMD doesn't bother marketing/advertising to the target market, it's kind of a double fail. Reply
wumpus - Saturday, February 08, 2014 - linkHardly. Building it for the target market would increase power draw by a factor of four (well two since the GPU is half the chip). That would kill mobile sales and likely limit desktop power to Intel levels. Not going to happen.
FP64 apps tend to be rare and price insensitive. Intel appears to be going there with the knights landing chip and AMD would get killed trying to make a chip that could compete with that *AND* fit in laptops/tablets (it would have enough trouble competing with that on the desktop). Reply
Gadgety - Friday, January 24, 2014 - linkRegardless of how well the A10-7850 compares to Intel's offering in terms of fp64, I'm wondering what good the extra 33% Stream Processors are bringing compared to the rest of the Kaveri range, as in the 7700k and the A8-7600? Reply
Shadowmaster625 - Friday, January 24, 2014 - linkThat A6 is so weak that it stays pegged at 100% for much longer periods than an i3. The i3 is able to actually enter into low power states more often. Since an i3 will churn through its tasks faster, it can even result in reduced power consumption from the storage device since more I/O operations can be clustered together. Reply
twoodrow - Friday, January 24, 2014 - linkI am developer who frequently uses OpenCL to accelerate proprietary image processing algorithms. Their code relies on compiler to vectorize which, in my experience using AMD and Intel's OpenCL SDKs, is often a mistake resulting in subpar performance.
I never really considered the fact that benchmark code would be this naive. I assumed that since its purpose was to give an objective standpoint of realizable performance that they would take all steps to ensure maximal numbers. I won't make that mistake again. Reply
BMNify - Friday, January 24, 2014 - link"Their code relies on compiler to vectorize" do you also rely on the compilers abilities to vectorize or actually write your code as small independent modules with both assembly code and C code as fall back as it where x264 code style to maximize your data throughput.
where can we find your OpenCL x264 image processing algorithms patches to improve that generic app for 1080P/UHD1 encoding Reply
twoodrow - Saturday, January 25, 2014 - linkI don't understand what you are trying to say. Can you explain it more clearly?
There are two ways to vectorize execution: explicitly (and there a few ways to do so) or letting the compiler figure it out from vector naïve code. The source does not explicitly vectorize by using the vector data types available in OpenCL. Reply
silverblue - Saturday, January 25, 2014 - linkI'm confused about FlexFPU. Surely the idea was to allow for two SSE or one AVX instruction per cycle, and considering we're talking four units per dual module/quad core Kaveri, wouldn't that be equivalent to a Phenom II X4/Llano? The unit is supposedly designed to work in a HyperThreaded-style manner, could that be the limitation, or is it for SSE2 only?
Also, as far as I recall, K10 doesn't support fused instructions. So, it's another reason to be confused about the results. Reply
kantian - Monday, January 27, 2014 - linkI think, there are mistakes in the table "CPU floating-point peak performance" in the column for Ivy Bridge i7-3770K processor. The 3770K has 4 cores each having 1 FPU with 2 128-bit FMA units. That is total of 8 128-bit FMA units. Steamroller A10-7850 has 4 cores, each two sharing 1 FPU with 2 128-bit FMA units. That is 2 FPU times 2 FMA units, which gives total of 4 128-bit FMA units. Hence i7-3770K has twice more AVX peak performance power than Steamroller, Richland and Trinity. Therefore the following numbers in the table corresponding to 4 times more performance power are wrong:
- i7-3770K, AVX fp32 (/cycle) 64. Should be 32;
- i7-3770K, AVX fp64 (/cycle) 32. Should be 16;
- i7-3770K, AVX fp32 (gflops) 224. Should be 112;
- i7-3770K, AVX fp64 (gflops) 112. Should be 56. Reply
kantian - Monday, January 27, 2014 - linkOr if you prefer, you can calculate the first 2 numbers like that:
- i7-3770K, AVX fp32 (/cycle) -> 8*128/32 = 32 (8 FMA, 128-bit, fp32)
- i7-3770K, AVX fp64 (/cycle) -> 8*128/64 = 16 (8 FMA, 128-bit, fp64)
And the corresponding A10-7850K and i7-4770K numbers are correctly calculated like that:
- A10-7850K, AVX fp32 (/cycle) -> 4*128/32 = 16 (4 FMA, 128-bit, fp32)
- A10-7850K, AVX fp64 (/cycle) -> 4*128/64 = 8 (4 FMA, 128-bit, fp64)
- i7-4770K, AVX fp32 (/cycle) -> 8*256/32 = 64 (8 FMA, 256-bit, fp32)
- i7-4770K, AVX fp64 (/cycle) -> 8*256/64 = 32 (8 FMA, 256-bit, fp64) Reply
rahulgarg - Monday, January 27, 2014 - linkEach Ivy Bridge core has two 256-bit ALU units and no FMA support. Ivy Bridge doesn't support FMA. Reply
kantian - Monday, January 27, 2014 - linkOk, you are right, I just didn't wish to go into such details. It doesn't change my calculations, because Intel Sandy Bridge/Ivy Bridge ALUs are used like that:
- 8 DP FLOPs/cycle: 4-wide AVX addition + 4-wide AVX multiplication
- 16 SP FLOPs/cycle: 8-wide AVX addition + 8-wide AVX multiplication
If you multiply those numbers by the number of cores (i.e. 4) you get 4 x 4 = 16 (fp64) and 4 x 8 = 32 (fp32) Those are exactly the numbers in my previous comment. Reply
kantian - Monday, January 27, 2014 - linkOr in other words, Sandy Bridge/Ivy Bridge ALU can execute either 1 256-bit addition or one 256-bit multiplication per cycle per core. While the two 128-bit Steamroller FMA units can group together to execute the same 1 256-bit addition or one 256-bit multiplication per cycle per module. Hence in the most cases, 1 Steamroller module should have the same throughput as 1 Ivy Bridge core. As non FMA AVX multiply and add operations are rarely mixed together, one could not expect many cases where both operations are performed on both 256-bit Ivy Bridge ALUs at the same cycle. In some ideal scenario, one of the Ivy Bridge hyper threads would provide 256-bit addition and the other - 256-bit multiplication. I can agree that in those cases the CPU will reach your maximum numbers of peak performance. Reply
kantian - Monday, January 27, 2014 - link'Or in other words, Sandy Bridge/Ivy Bridge FPU ..." above Reply
FellTheSky - Thursday, February 06, 2014 - linkwould gddr5 and better memory bus help kaveri in HSA enabled applications?
There are some benchmarks around of opencalc and another app that supports hsa, but they are very simple test, and i would like to know if memory speed has a direct impact on hsa applications Reply
crunchmore - Friday, May 23, 2014 - linkI'm not sure about my understanding, but maybe FPU in bulldozer don't work as a single core:
"What he could tell me was that the 128-bit FP units are symmetrical, and that, on any cycle, either integer core can dispatch a 256-bit AVX instruction (assuming software compiled to support AVX). Or, both integer cores can dispatch a single 128-bit instruction at the same time."
From: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/bulldozer-bobc...
There are some test to run for make situation clear? Thanks. Reply


text:
Oct 27, 2011 12:00AM
Is Frances Bean Cobain Engaged?
Facebook tells us so!
Did you know that celebrities have Facebooks, just like the rest of us? And, just like the rest of us, people like to gossip about what they do on their profiles? Frances Bean Cobain is growing up very quickly, one minute she looked like this, the next she was being photographed naked by Hedi Slimane. Now there are reports, based on a series of Facebook posts and relationship status updates (!!!!!!!!), that young Frances Bean is engaged to her boyfriend of over a year, Isaiah Silva of LA band The Rambles.
Here's the (alleged) proof, courtesy of the OC Weekly!
The OC Weekly even points out (creepily) that Isaiah looks just like Kurt Cobain (BTW: he doesn't!).
Anyway, I checked him out and he seems like a nice guy, so congratulations!


text:
Consumer Electronics Show 2004 Day 1: Motherboards at CESby Anand Lal Shimpi, Kris Kubicki and Wesley Fink on 1/9/2004 4:48 AM EST
- Posted in
- Trade Shows
8 Comments
Back to Article
Idoxash - Monday, January 12, 2004 - linkWow, I think that "Mobile Athlon XP" computer by FIC is crazily kewl looking. I like to know more about it and such.
--Idoxash Reply
JADS - Monday, January 12, 2004 - linkStill no dual CPU enthusiast boards. Could be a good reason for the FX staying around if one of the HT links was re-enabled. Reply
sandorski - Saturday, January 10, 2004 - linkDon't worry, it'll become an issue in time. ;) Reply
mrprotagonist - Friday, January 09, 2004 - linkCan't believe that the nvidia/AMD/Intel fanboys didn't catch this snippet on page 4:
"ATI has confirmed production of an AMD Athlon 64 core logic; NVIDIA is rumored to also have an Intel chipset in the works. With both ATI and NVIDIA producing both AMD and Intel chipsets, we will now have five major chipset manufacturers (six if you include ALi)."
klah - Friday, January 09, 2004 - linkJRun Connector Protocol Error. Reply
ehanneken - Friday, January 09, 2004 - linkDoes the FIC small form factor PC that opens up like a Mac have an AGP slot?
Evan Lieb - Friday, January 09, 2004 - linkGood job guys. Too bad I couldn't go. :) Reply
Tracy-Computer Franchise - Friday, July 27, 2012 - linkgood post..i hope that i could visit..Most of us know that Nanotechnology is the manipulation of matter on an atomic and molecular scale,but few of us knew that Nanotechnology entails the application of fields of science as diverse as surface science, organic chemistry, molecular biology, semiconductor physics, microfabrication, etc.
http://www.cpr-franchise.com Reply


text:
Young Conservatives begins national tour to remove anti-gay language from GOP platform
Postedon Jun 04, 2014 at 11:07 am
Today Young Conservatives for the Freedom to Marry begins a national tour in key 2016 swing states as part of its "Reform the Platform" initiative to strike anti-gay language from the national GOP platform.
Karen Morgan, widow of CW2 Charlie Morgan, receives military spouse ID card
Postedon Oct 24, 2013 at 03:00 pm
Yesterday, Karen Morgan, the widow of Chief Warrant Officer Charlie Morgan of the New Hampshire National Guard, was finally able to get her military spouse ID card. The ID card will help to protect Karen Morgan, who lost her wife Charlie on February 10 of this year after a courageous battle with cancer.
Congrats to newly engaged Young Conservatives Campaign Manager Tyler Deaton!
Postedon Jul 18, 2013 at 11:30 am
This week, Tyler Deaton, the Campaign Manager for Young Conservatives for the Freedom to Marry, got engaged to his longtime partner Jay McClure. The couple has been together for nearly seven years and will marry in New Hampshire.
New Hampshire celebrates fourth anniversary of approving the freedom to marry
Postedon Jun 03, 2013 at 12:45 pm
Today is the fourth anniversary of New Hampshire Governor John Lynch signing the freedom to marry into law across the state of NH after a bill passed through both houses of the legislature. The first marriages for same-sex couples in New Hampshire took place on January 1, 2010, and the law has maintained popular support among New Hampshire residents.
How we won the freedom to marry across New England
Postedon Apr 25, 2013 at 12:45 pm
Yesterday's vote in Rhode Island makes it all but certain that this year, same-sex couples in states across New England will be able to share in the freedom to marry. How did we get here? Let's go back to 2004 and track how marriage moved forward across the region
Jenn and Christina: 5 years of photos on our engagement night
Postedon Mar 20, 2013 at 01:00 pm
Jennifer Corriveau and Christina Honeycutt are just one of the many couples able to celebrate their love and commitment in New Hampshire now that the freedom to marry is secure. Here, they shared their engagement story - and 14 photos - with Freedom to Marry.
New Hampshire Gov. Hassan applauds the freedom to marry in inauguration speech
Postedon Jan 04, 2013 at 05:00 pm
Yesterday, Maggie Hassan was inaugurated governor of New Hampshire. She spoke about the importance of the freedom to marry in her inauguration speech and included Chief Warrant Officer Charlie Morgan, an outspoken opponent of DOMA currently battling terminal breast cancer, in the ceremony.
Top 10 Moments for Marriage in 2012
Postedon Dec 13, 2012 at 05:00 pm
Like 2011, 2012 was a year of triumph and transformation for the freedom to marry and our campaign. While already at work on the wins we want in 2013, let's savor and take inspiration from Freedom to Marry's top ten marriage moments in 2012.
11 ways the freedom to marry triumphed on Election Day
Postedon Nov 08, 2012 at 07:30 pm
This week, the freedom to marry triumphed at the ballot box over and over again. We know that some of the wrap-up - and what it all means for the future of the campaign to win marriage nationwide - can be tricky, so here's a break-down of the important ways that the freedom to marry won on Election Day.
NOM Fails in New Hampshire Primary Elections
Postedon Sep 13, 2012 at 10:18 am
In Tuesday's primary elections in New Hampshire, Republican legislators who opposed repealing the freedom to marry overwhelmingly won their primaries.


text:
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CAT Publications downloads system is currently undergoing redevelopment. In the meantime, read about our books on our website at:publications.cat.org.uk or see the CAT tipsheets and books available in our eco store at store.cat.org.uk
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text:
JOBS are set to be axed at Brintons in a bid by bosses to make the Kidderminster factory more efficient.
Up to 20 jobs will be shed at the Kidderminster factory following changes to the shift patterns.
The night shift will be scrapped and replaced with a double day shift to make the manufacturing more efficient.
A spokeswoman for Brintons said it was hoped people would be given the option of voluntary redundancy.
She added: "We don't like to do this. We always try to avoid redundancies wherever possible and these people will be given full support. The consultation process has started today."
She added: "We need to make Kidderminster efficient. We're removing the night shift and we're putting on a double day shift and will be making a few changes in the warehouse."
She said despite the shift change, the same amount of carpet would be produced at the factory.
"It's not all doom and gloom," she added. "There's a lot of investment going into Kidderminster. We're putting investment into all the factories."
She added there were vacancies at the Telford site which people could apply for.
Brintons is the largest manufacturer of Axminster carpets in the world and has carried out many prestigious projects, including carpeting the Indira Gandhi International Airport in Delhi, the Queen Mary 2, many Las Vegas casinos and recently the St Pancras Renaissance Hotel in London.
The company currently has plant facilities in the UK, India, Portugal and China and its product portfolio includes premium woven Axminster and Wilton broadloom carpets, Axminster carpet tiles and handtufted rugs.


text:
View unanswered posts | View active topics
Board index » Question and Answer » Sharpening Q&A
All times are UTC - 6 hours
Jeff B wrote:I recently bought a used Konosuke white#2 300mm suji. It was pretty dull so I took it to the stones. I started out with the Shapton pro 320. After stetting the bevel and removing the burr I was amazed at how sharp the knife was at that point! I've never had a knife that sharp after the 320. I finished the blade on the green brick and was thrilled with the edge! It push cut phone book paper smooth as silk.I'm not trying to pat myself on the back(maybe a little ). I've been free handing less than a year and don't have close to the mad skills as the majority of those on this forum but I can see my skills improving, and it feels good! I have to thank everyone here that answer questions, helps with technique, make videos, and helps to keep all of us newbies straight and improving!It was the enthusiasm of this forum that made me try free handing so thanks to everyone here. I'll never have a dull knife again!
SteveG wrote:....I'm amazed at the knives people use for years with no edge whatsoever on them.
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text:
POLICE are anxious to trace a man missing from the Stoke-on-Trent area, who may be in the Worcester area.
Gary Jennings, 41, was last seen leaving his home at around 9.40am on Monday (February 17).
Extensive inquiries to locate him are ongoing, and Staffordshire Police officers are liaising with colleagues from Thames Valley and West Mercia forces as Mr Jennings has connections to the Oxford and Worcester areas.
Mr Jennings is described as white and six feet tall with short dark-brown hair. He is of stocky build, pale complexion and is normally clean shaven.
When last seen, he was wearing blue jeans, brown/beige walking boots and a black jacket with a white stripe on the chest.
A Staffordshire Police spokesperson said: "We are continuing to make inquiries to locate Mr Jennings and are concerned for his welfare as this behaviour is uncharacteristic. We would ask that anyone who has seen him, or had any contact, to get in touch."
Anyone with information on Mr Jennings' whereabouts is asked to contact police on 101, quoting Staffordshire Police incident number 341 of February 17.


text:
My intentions are to create a game where users can connect to my server. I would like my game to be python2.x/python3.x supported, so i think if that is the case, my only solution is to use sockets. I see a ton of examples using sockets for basic chat back and forth from the client and server. That is all fine and dandy, but the game would requre numerous clients, 7-10 people talking to the server at the same time. asyncore appears to be the answer for python3.x. What is different from asyncore and sockets though? Why does sockets block and asyncore module does not block?
Apparently i am in way over my head. Very bad at networking. I looked at the asyncore module and pretty much rolled my eyes as i have no idea what is going on in there. Anyways...I am not even sure how to use the asyncore module as any other clients past the first one gets a socket.error Address already in use.
2nd client
- Code: Select all
metulburr@arch ~ $ python3 aserver.py '' 2003
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "aserver.py", line 27, in <module>
s = Server(sys.argv[1], int(sys.argv[2]))
File "aserver.py", line 8, in __init__
self.bind(('', port))
File "/usr/local/lib/python3.2/asyncore.py", line 337, in bind
return self.socket.bind(addr)
socket.error: [Errno 98] Address already in use
metulburr@arch ~ $
- Code: Select all
import asyncore, socket, sys
class Server(asyncore.dispatcher):
def __init__(self, host, port):
self.create_socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
self.bind(('', port))
def handle_accept(self):
socket, address = self.accept()
print('Connection by {}'.format(address))
class EchoHandler(asyncore.dispatcher_with_send):
# dispatcher_with_send extends the basic dispatcher to have an output
# buffer that it writes whenever there's content
def handle_read(self):
self.out_buffer = self.recv(1024)
if not self.out_buffer:
i = input('> ')
self.out_buffer += "ECHO FROM SERVER".encode() + self.out_buffer
s = Server(sys.argv[1], int(sys.argv[2]))
- Code: Select all
import asyncore, socket, sys
class Client(asyncore.dispatcher_with_send):
def __init__(self, host, port, message):
self.create_socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
self.connect((host, port))
self.out_buffer = message
def handle_close(self):
def handle_read(self):
print('Received {}'.format(self.recv(1024)))
i = input('> ')
self.out_buffer = i.encode()
c = Client(sys.argv[1], int(sys.argv[2]), 'Hello, world'.encode())
Running this, the server can send only one line back to the client, and the client cant sent anything. Plus if a second client tried to connect, it fails with the traceback above. I assumed it would be the same as sockets, and just threw the recv and send in a while loop for the server,
- Code: Select all
def handle_read(self):
while True:
self.out_buffer = self.recv(1024)
if not self.out_buffer:
i = input('> ')
self.out_buffer += "ECHO FROM SERVER".encode() + self.out_buffer
but then i get the traceback
- Code: Select all
metulburr@arch ~ $ python aserver.py '' 2003
Connection by ('127.0.0.1', 45606)
> test
error: uncaptured python exception, closing channel <__main__.EchoHandler connected 127.0.0.1:45606 at 0x7fece630f198> (<class 'BlockingIOError'>:[Errno 11] Resource temporarily unavailable [/usr/lib/python3.4/asyncore.py|read|83] [/usr/lib/python3.4/asyncore.py|handle_read_event|442] [aserver.py|handle_read|21] [/usr/lib/python3.4/asyncore.py|recv|379])


text:
George Whitfield's preaching inspired the First Great Awakening, and that led us to the American Revolution.
Charles G. Finney's preaching inspired the Second Great Awakening, and that caused us to put an end to slavery in America. Reverend Finney was a lawyer who became an Evangelist. He was the forerunner of all of the great Revivalists, such as Dwight L. Moody and Billy Graham.
Reverend Finney was also an educator and a college president. He was the Billy Graham of his day, and he gave us these words of warning.
"The Church must take the right ground in regard to politics. The time has come that Christians must vote for honest men and take consistent ground in politics.
God cannot sustain this free and blessed country which we love and pray for unless the Church will take right ground. Politics are a part of religion in such a country as this, and Christians must do their duty to the country as part of their duty to God.
God will bless or curse this nation according to the course Christians take in politics."
James A. Garfield was the 20th President of the United States, and a Minister of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. He pointed out that it's up to us to elect people of honesty and integrity. We are responsible for the morals and ethics of Congress, or the absence of them.
"Now, more than ever before, the people are responsible for the character of their Congress. If that body be ignorant, reckless and corrupt, it is because the people tolerate ignorance, recklessness, and corruption. If it be intelligent, brave and pure, it is because the people demand these high qualities to represent them in the national legislature."


text:
- Know Your Rights
- Sexual Violence at School and on Campus
Sexual Violence at School and on Campus
- Child Sexual Assault Prevention
- Engaging Bystanders in Sexual Violence Prevention
- Healthcare Initiative
- Know Your Rights
- Lifespan
- Multilingual Access
- National Sexual Assault Conference
- Preventing Sexual Violence in Disasters
- Raliance
- Rape Prevention & Education (RPE)
- Rural Training Project
- SANE Sustainability TA
- Sexual Assault Demonstration Initiative
- Sexual Assault Demonstration Initiative
- Sexual Assault Response Teams (SART)
- Sexual Violence & the Workplace
- xCHANGE Forum
Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972 ("Title IX") is a Federal civil rights law that prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex in education programs and activities. All public and private elementary and secondary schools, school districts, colleges, and universities receiving any Federal funds must comply with Title IX. Discrimination can include sexual harassment or sexual violence, such as rape, sexual assault, sexual battery, and sexual coercion.
Know your Rights: Title IX Fact Sheet
Sexual Violence Background, Summary, and Fast Facts
Guidance for schools from the Department of Education
This guidance makes clear the legal obligations under Title IX of any school, college or university receiving federal funds to respond promptly and effectively to sexual violence.
A complaint of discrimination can be filed by anyone who believes that a school that receives Federal financial assistance has discriminated against someone on the basis of race, color, national origin, sex, disability, or age. The person or organization filing the complaint need not be a victim of the alleged discrimination, but may complain on behalf of another person or group. For information on how to file a complaint with OCR, visit http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ ocr/complaintintro.html or contact OCR's Customer Service Team at 1-800-421-3481.
Additional Resources (coming soon)


text:
Blame it on me not feeling well or the fact that I waited until the last minute, but I am "fashion frustrated" at the moment. I can not seem to find anything to wear for Full Figured Fashion Week. I know I still have about 4 days left to shop, but come on! And with my back hurting the way it has, I can't leave my house and the hubby hates to shop, so I've been stuck searching online.
And don't even get me started on what I'm going to wear to the "All White Sunset Cruise." Do you know how hard it is to find something that every other girl isn't going to be wearing on that boat. LOL! I guess that's the source of my frustration. Our lack of variety and availability. Last year, I saw so many lovely ladies in the same dress! That's already happened to me once.
Why do straight sizes have all the fun? They have millions of options. Especially in the white dress department.
Let's go curvy fashion designers…I need more options and white dresses! LOL! I'm a demanding blogger!
On a serious note…I know I'm just being a whiner and I know I'm so amazingly lucky to be headed to NYC, one of my favorite places on this planet. But, I'm allowed to whine and complain every once in a while. So there!
Are you headed to FFFWeek? Do you have your outfits planned?


text:
DEC Public Comment Forum
Posted by admin on 11/09/09
Excerpts from the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) public comment forum held at Sullivan County Community College in Loch Sheldrake, NY, on 10/28/2009.
Originally aired November 8, 2009, on JeffHorse heard on WJFF on Sunday nights at 11pm. Part 1 of 3.


text:
Google countersues BT on patent claims
0. phoneArena posted on 13 Feb 2013, 20:46
Google has always said that it only intends to use its patent portfolio and the portfolio it acquired when purchasing Motorola defensively, and a new filing looks like it is following that claim. Google and Motorola have countersued BT, Britain's top fixed-line telecommunications group, in a California federal court...
This is a discussion for a news. To read the whole news, click here
1. joey_sfb (Posts: 6613; Member since: 29 Mar 2012)
Patent are anti innovation. The world a better place with out it.
3. lyndon420 (Posts: 5002; Member since: 11 Jul 2012)
We still need the patents though...for the real and truly innovative inventions.
4. joey_sfb (Posts: 6613; Member since: 29 Mar 2012)
More cons than pro as far as innovation is concern. The problem is patent troll are too many and they pick smaller target that ones that would be bankrupt if they engaged in the multi million lawsuits. To Apple google and Samsung its really like a pastime hobby. But smaller businesses its everything.
9. anywherehome (Posts: 971; Member since: 13 Dec 2011)
no, in this phase of abusing patent system (Microsoft+Apple) is better to dig out all the IT software related patents....
5. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5993; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)
Without the exclusivity offered by patents, many of the innovations that we depend on in our daily lives wouldn't exist. Unfortunately the concept of patenting has been extended to areas that probably weren't intended to receive patent protection - how about design patents.... Do rounded corners really deserve patent protection?
Trolls are part of the process of monetizing patents. Someone thinks they can make money off a patent and they are willing to pay to purchase the patent and the rights that flow from the patent. Sometimes the troll wins, oftentimes they lose (winning patent lawsuits has gotten harder). Trolls provide a market where one likely wouldn't exist in the absence of the ability of the troll to extract royalties from patents they purchase.
7. MorePhonesThanNeeded (Posts: 645; Member since: 23 Oct 2011)
Patents aren't the problem, it's the lazy ass companies who buy them up and don't actually use the patents for anything they are developing, only to just mooch off companies who actually need to use the patent.
USPTO should reduce the royalty amount if the patent licensed out is not actively being used by the owner. No point in giving you crap loads of money for only owning the patent and not doing anything other than sitting on it without actually developing it further. This would curb that patent trolling done by companies who have patents and do nothing but attempt to sue for royalties that they don't deserve in any way shape or form.
10. Droid_X_Doug (Posts: 5993; Member since: 22 Dec 2010)
USPTO doesn't set royalty amount. Royalty amount is set at trial based on a number of factors.
Companies generally are the entity that raises the $ to employ a team of people that do the inventing. Shouldn't the investors who put cash into the company be able to receive a return on their investment? Absent the ability for a company to 'own' patents, very few individual inventors would be able to raise the investment needed to fund their inventive efforts.
Things are a bit more nuanced than they first seem.
11. AamirSIII (banned) (Posts: 187; Member since: 04 Oct 2012)
but actually patents are very crucial for competition! u see if one company invests millions and billions of $$ in some innovation, it should not be used by any one with out royalty and if some one does it, they should face the consequences!
think of it like, u study for ur exams and prepare everyday. at the end, when its the exam day, some one just cheats from u for no reason and gets better grades from u. how would u feel then?
2. lyndon420 (Posts: 5002; Member since: 11 Jul 2012)
Good. Kick their arse Google.
12. chaoticrazor (Posts: 2347; Member since: 28 Aug 2012)
grow up kid
6. MartyK (Posts: 947; Member since: 11 Apr 2012)
They need to make a rule, if you are not making a product with your patent, or you have no product in the market that you created with your patent, you are not allow to sue anyone.
8. roscuthiii (Posts: 2241; Member since: 18 Jul 2010)
That's what I'd like to see. No NPE's. Damn trolls.
Also, I'd like to see patents be non-transferable. The inventor/innovator passes away? The IP becomes public domain.
No matter what corporations would have the people believe, I don't consider them to be "people" too. I don't think they should be allowed to hold intellectual properties. Let the intellect that actually created the product hold the IP. Guess companies would have to give their designers & engineers a little more incentive to stay employed with them then though.


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Aireborough is facing a "free-for-all greenbelt landgrab" after a government inspector's decision to uphold housing targets for Leeds, it is being claimed.
The campaign group Ward – Wharfedale and Airedale Review Development – says the decision to uphold the 70,000 housing target is "extremely disappointing."
Campaign group chairman Dr David Ingham spoke out after the inspector attended a Leeds Core Strategy session in Leeds.
Ward had asked him to find the Core Strategy unsound – claiming that the council itself no longer thought the 70,000 target was achievable.
After the session in Leeds Dr Ingham warned about the consequences of the inspector's decision.
"What it means, if upheld, is a huge free-for-all, greenbelt landgrab from developers because of the five year land supply rule – an absolute disaster for the city of Leeds," he said.
In a submission to the inspector Ward said a considerable amount of greenfield and greenbelt land would have to be allocated to meet the five year land supply.
It says: "It is obvious Leeds will have problems in ensuring sufficient land and money is available to meet infrastructure needs in terms of school provision and transport needs even before the need for doctors, dentists and health workers is considered. Sticking to ministerial terms of reference under the proposed current Core Strategy the necessary reforms to infrastructure are financially unrealistic."
It adds: "Ward considers that the Leeds Core Strategy is unsound, not fit for purpose, is not based on objective factual evidence (Census figures) but is a largely hypothetical and aspirational figure which cannot be considered to be based on hard data. Ward therefore hopes that the Core Strategy will be rejected as unsound by the Inspectorate, on the grounds that Leeds has miscalculated its 70,000 Core Strategy target and now recognises it is simply unattainable."
The Core Strategy is the main document setting out the strategic level Policies and Vision to guide the overall future for Leeds - planning for the regeneration and growth of the area over 15 years. It was submitted to the Secretary of State in April last year for examination by an independent planning inspector.


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mitigate losses Archives
10 Things To Do When Business Is Slow
April 19, 2012 by in Columnist Spotlight | Small Biz
No matter what business you're in, no matter how great your product, no matter who's buying, every business goes through a lull or slow period during the year. Making strategic use of this time can help businesses lay a solid foundation for the months and years that follow. If you're in a specific industry, you… Read More →


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Tag Archives: mr. rogers
Booby Traps Series: From "Ew, gross" to "Isn't that too old?" TV and film depictions of breastfeeding.
Let's state something right away: TV and film are entertainment. We get that. We know that when we turn on the set or stream a movie, what we see is meant to make us laugh, cry, cringe, shudder, and maybe … Continue reading
Posted in Aggressive Formula Marketing, Blog, Booby Traps, Empower, Inspire, Main Content, Prepare Tagged 30 rock, bernice hausman, Booby Traps, breastfeedin in the movies, breastfeeding, breastfeeding in film, breastfeeding on tv, breastmilk, chicago hope, friends, gilmore girls, house, katherine foss, me myself and irene, meet the fockers, Mother's Milk, mr. rogers, ponyo, precious, reality tv, reel milk, sesame street, the new normal, the office, two and a half men 4 Comments
Last revised on 09/26/2013
Last revised on 09/26/2013


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Don't miss all the excitement and waddling today!
Who better to have on a day full of pregnant moms than new mom SHAKIRA?! The pop-music sensation has made a home for herself on NBC's hit singing competition, "The Voice"! She's telling Ellen about her role as mother to baby Milan, her career, and her exciting new chapter as a television judge!
Then, it's the mother of all reality stars! Ellen's good friend BETHENNY FRANKEL is here to join the festivities, and to catch Ellen up on all of the excitement in her life! The mother of the adorable Bryn is about to start her brand new talk show! Get ready for her always straight-shooting and hilarious advice.
There's so much fun on Ellen today, you could pop!


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Lunatic wrote:"Anyone get the feeling Melampus is going to hate this xD Just a bunch of people posting mindlessly." :lol:
Melampus wrote:Lunatic wrote:"Anyone get the feeling Melampus is going to hate this xD Just a bunch of people posting mindlessly." :lol:Did you ever hit that nail clean on the FREAKING head! I despise post whores...
DefMunky wrote:The trial knives sound like a nice idea. It would give some of us that talk a lot more knowledge on what we are talking about. Maybe a knife selected by Mark to try out and do a write up on with an option to buy at a discount? Even if I had to send it back with no option to buy I know I would love a chance to try out more knives!Free 2 day shipping would also be an awesome thing, especially considering how "fast" normal USPS shipping in my area is. I can order something from CKTG that is shipped on Monday and doesn't get to me until Friday or Saturday.Steeper discounts on items (or free items! lol) would be nice as well... I want more knives and stones! lol But then again who on this site doesn't, other than Mel who seems to own most of the knives sold here anyway? The honest truth is that with everything Mark is doing for ALL of us, including free giveaways (BTW, did anyone win the Jan giveaway? I have a feeling that if they did it was buried. lol), forum only sales, VERY reasonable pricing on a site of this size, the normal sale stuff, the customer service, customer interaction, and the list goes on, I don't really feel that anything else is needed. I'd be happy regardless. Don't get me wrong though, anything over an above what is already being done will definitely be GREATLY appreciated, I just have a hard time thinking about anything else that isn't already being done.So yeah, I think my favorite option is the opportunity to try out different knives so that I will know more about the subjects I chime in on. Just lay out some ground rules, get my bank/credit card info as security (if needed), and let me play with the knife/knives to see what I like or don't like about them. I'm not a pro, but I am an average home user that uses his knives everyday for meal preparation.
Lunatic wrote:First off, 4-5 days shipping to get a knife. POOR YOU! I absolutely hate international shipping.
DefMunky wrote:Lunatic wrote:First off, 4-5 days shipping to get a knife. POOR YOU! I absolutely hate international shipping.I live in the States... our local post is just that "efficient"... lol I can't blame Mark or Sue at ALL though because everything is shipped out VERY quickly, like same day or next business day for a late night/weekend order... I just get it a day or two after USPS tracking says it will get here, EVERY time. lol But hey, I get it shipped for free anyway (all my orders are over $60) so I can't complain.
MadRookie wrote:....Another thought is to additionally reward at various levels i.e. 1 000 posts, 2 000 posts, 3 000 posts etc. with an once off small token gesture gift to the individual....
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PANDORA — Although they
did not know each other prior to embarking upon their foreign exchange
experience at Pandora-Gilboa High School, Maria Hroudoba, Samira
Teymouri and Anna Abelovska have become good friends.
The three
young women come from different European countries: Maria is from the
Czech Republic, Samira is from Germany, and Anna is from Slovakia. The
Czech Republic is a land-locked country, and is bordered by Germany to
the east and Slovakia to the west.
Anna and Samira arrived in
Pandora in mid-August. Anna's host family is Billie Jean and Brian
Kreuzberg, while Samira is staying with Jessica and Derrick Storer.
Maria, whose host family is Tonia and Barney Hovest, arrived on Jan. 13,
and will be staying for one semester at P-G.
The three explained
what had prompted them to become exchange students. Samira related her
best friend's older sister had been an exchange student; the friend
wanted to experience the United States in the same fashion and discussed
it with Samira. The two friends went to listen to former exchange
students relate their exploits. Samira recalled, "I liked the idea more
and more." She applied for a program in Germany, and was referred to the
Aspect Foundation. Initially, she asked to stay with her aunt and uncle
in Washington, D.C.; however, the agency did not permit their students
to stay with family.
Anna's family encouraged her to become an
exchange student. Her older brother had been an exchange student and had
lived in Ohio.
"I didn't want to go at first," she confessed. "I
took a test (with the Council on International Educational Exchange) to
see if I could go, and I passed! I don't regret anything."
is here through the Youth for Understanding (YFU) program. She confided,
"I always wanted to live here. I didn't know about people or colleges.
This helps to really learn about America, and find out if I really want
to live here."
The young ladies' impressions of life in the United
States differ. Anna's village, Dobrá Niva, is similar in size to
Pandora. She has noted that people here are more interested in sports,
which suits her just fine. She is an accomplished athlete, and has
participated on the P-G cross country and basketball teams. She also
hopes to play softball and run long-distance in track this spring.
observed, "It is flat here. We have a lot of hills. But I have been
impressed with how nice, friendly, and outgoing people are here."
hometown in Hamburg, which has a population of nearly 1.8 million.
"This is not at all what I'm used to," she acknowledged. "I'm used to a
big city. The weather is different, too; it's a lot colder here than at
home." Samira said, "It's like I have seen in the movies, or on tv."
"Yes, the movies!" Maria and Anna chimed in, their heads bobbing in agreement.
here has been easier for Samira, but she believed the grading is more
difficult. In Germany, 60 percent of students' final grades are based on
class participation and 40 percent is based on tests. She has rarely
experienced a final exam; teachers give finals only if they so desire.
Anna attends school in a bigger city, where she does not have the same
classes every day. Her exams are oral; final grades are equally based on
class participation and test scores.
Maria indicated her classes
at home are similar to those at P-G. When she brought up the fact that
she does not have computers at her school, the other two students nodded
their heads in agreement. They said having computers is very
beneficial, especially in helping to record lectures.
"We have to take notes in every single class at home," Maria demonstrated, writing with a pen on paper.
liked attending Rocket football games this past fall. She described,
"It was like in the movies, or like that TV show…"Glee," she laughed.
The girls exploded into gales of giggles at her comment.
hopes to be on the track and softball teams this spring. Because she
came later in the year, she missed tryouts for the school play. She was
given a small part, though, which is in line with her future
aspiration—to be an actress.
Although the three have acclimated to
the food in the United States, they miss their native cuisine where
they consume more fresh provisions.
"But we love it," Maria declared of the food here.
Maria misses drinking tea, as her host family does not partake of the beverage. "And the bread," she added, "Yours is completely different."
They also have experienced dining out more than at home.
"Tony's—oh my gosh, yes!" Anna exclaimed, smacking her lips. "The cyclones!"
young ladies are well traveled. Maria has visited Spain, Italy,
Croatia, Slovakia, Austria, and Malta. Samira has been to Denmark,
Italy, France, and made a quick trip to Poland while on a class
excursion. Anna has toured in France, Great Britain, Italy, Croatia and
Egypt. All three will be joining their P-G peers on a class trip to New
York City, an adventure that they are highly anticipating. Samira said
she and her host family are also going to see some mountains.
exchange students hope they will be able to stay in contact once they
return to their homelands, and plan to do it in way typical to teens
around the world.
"We all have Facebook," Samira explained.
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Straw Poll: Who would like to see the model gallery documentation overhauled???
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January 25, 2013 2:26pm UTC
Straw Poll: Who would like to see the model gallery documentation overhauled???
Hello all,
I thought I'd post this here to get the community opinions before suggesting it to support.
If I want to learn how to use an aspect of Comsol I work through example models and I visit the forums, and often the advice from the forum is to work through a particular example model. This is, in my opinion, the best way of learning how to use any technical software.
I believe that this process is quite seriously hampered in Comsol compared to other products like Labview/Matlab or even things like Adobe Creative Suite. I think it is hampered because of the structure of the model documentation.
Basically, I think it is near enough useless to give users a step-by-step instruction sheet for how to build an example model without telling them WHY they are doing what they are doing. In almost all cases, when I try to adapt what I have learned from working through the example models to my actual applications, there comes a point where something fails and I have no way of figuring out which aspects of the example models are crucially important and which aspects should be changed because I often don't know what they were doing in the example model or why.
One clear example is in the application of boundary conditions to particular physics (which BCs are necessary for the physics to solve, which are problem-dependant).
Another example of the type of problem is that the built-in material AIR cannot be used with the electric currents interface without changing its conductivity from 0 to some small positive value. I realise the physical reasoning behind this, but this must be such a common problem that I can't believe there isn't some up-front info in the model library examples that explicit state this. It's the kind of problem that can hold new users up for days/weeks and it's not the only one: a user might get past this only to run into another similar problem in the very next step of his/her model.
The way the documentation is written, you might come across a line that says something like "change the value of conductivity from 0 to 1 S/m in the material properties". But there is no explanation of why you are doing this, or whether this is generally important or only important to the specific problem in the example. This means that you could be searching around the documentation for an answer to your problem only to read right over it again and again.
Basically I think the barrier for entry into COMSOL is needlessly high because of the way the documentation is handled. With a relatively tiny amount of work on the part of Comsol (hell, it could even be done by the community) the documentation could be updated and thousands of new users would be able to answer their own questions instead of raising hundreds and hundreds of forum and support tickets. All that is needed is the inclusion of one or two explanatory sentences after each section of the step-by-step instructions.
This is not a rage post, it doesn't relate to a specific problem I am having right now, I genuinely think that Comsol are wasting an opportunity to grow their community and broaden their user-base.
I'm interested to hear your thoughts.
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January 26, 2013 12:35am UTC in response to Dominic Clarke
Re: Straw Poll: Who would like to see the model gallery documentation overhauled???
intersting topic !
I can remember I felt it also like that a few years ago when I started to use COMSOL, but I must admit that today, I have other arguments. Some of the examples you are giving come from the fact that you have NOT gone through the model on a quick paper sketch, stating which variables to solve for, on which domain, how many dependent variables do you have, which level of derivation is required, hence how many BC Direchelet or Neumann are required, made the list and controlled that the count is fully there.
If you choose EC you solve for "conduction" and if air is defined as an isolant (0 conductions) the physics you are applying are wrong (out of the main hypothesis = conduction) For isolants you should add a simple Ampere law node and define your air like that, or "cheat" and give it a little conduction.
But then do not forget that values of material properties in a ratio of more than 1:10^6 to 1:10^8 will not be correctly solved, because our computers today have 64 bit FPU's and even in Double precision 128 bits, they do not represent the real number scale with enough precision to handle too large differences (check the value of sqrt(eps))
For BC's you must understand your equations enough to count the number of fixed points you give to get an unique solution, as most PDEs give many equivalent solutions, each offset by some constant or slope, and COMSOL cannot decide which are "physical" and which are not, we end users must do that.
Then the question boils down to: should COMSOL doc (and examples) revrite all physics ?
I have some 500 books on differrent aspects of physics (and chemistry) in my bookshelf in my office, they do not even cover the full range of topics that are covered by COMSOL, in addition COMSOL has managed to unify all these physics in such a way that you can mix them all with COMSOL. But this is by far not so for most books: they consider at most 1-2 physics and do not care if the way to present the subject is compatile or not with all other existing physics.
So today, I believe COMSOL is already doing it a great job in unifying all their physics, and to document it, densly I agree, you need to read the 4-5000 pages of docs a few times.
So, to do better they must open a "Faculty of COMSOL use of Physics" but that could also be done by any University today. So shold we users pay more to use COMSOL and to finance such a Faculty ? I prefer not to, and would rather like to see more universities and high schools teach physics with COMSOL, and there one could discuss these issues of what is required, how many BC's, what does this mean.
Comments appreciated
Have fun COMSOLING
NB: I'm not from COMSOL, just a "paying" user, as most of you out here ;)
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January 29, 2013 10:18am UTC in response to Ivar Kjelberg
Re: Straw Poll: Who would like to see the model gallery documentation overhauled???
Thanks Ivar,
Anyone else have an opinion?
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January 29, 2013 2:17pm UTC in response to Dominic Clarke
Re: Straw Poll: Who would like to see the model gallery documentation overhauled???
I would like to see improvements in the documentation. A beginner has their work cutout for them because the s/w can be overwhelming to use. There can be some significant details to each problem. Initially using the program requires one to baby step their way through until they have enough experience. This goes against the way comsol advertises because their ads will state that the program is easy to use. I think that only applies to Phd types and those that are well versed in FEA already. It is sort of like getting good at math, unless you do a lot of problems there is no way to "see" the pathway to the answer. I believe their program is really structured to academics first. Then outsiders second. As you read the documentation it is just an explanation of what a BC may do. It will not explain how to apply it. This is where your education is supposed to kick in and "help" you out. For me, my background helps a little but it cannot necessarily sort through all of the semantics of each step.
The documentation contains no worked examples but is just a text description. It would be nice to see simple setups in the documentation. And for the worked examples posted online, the newer versions (for ver4.2 +) tend to explain more of the underlying reasons for what is going on in the background. For them to cover all of the operating principles would be a major task though. I will circle back and say that the program is definitely meant for science/tech backgrounded people. And for someone to even attempt to model using PDEs or ODEs, that requires some education as well. It is not a simple program to use and it can be if the problem is not complicated. Most problems that need to be solved are complicated.
I also think that their intent is to have you buy the program and then you will take their classes to learn how to use it. One could look at that in a couple different ways. You either look at it as part of the operating costs or you look at it as an added cost that takes time from you. If you paid a lot of money for the program, you would expect it to be "self teaching". But it is not.
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January 29, 2013 4:07pm UTC in response to Dennis Brown
Re: Straw Poll: Who would like to see the model gallery documentation overhauled???
Thanks Dennis.
I would just like to add that I am a PhD student myself. My undergrad and masters were in physics but now I work in biology. Comsol is used heavily in our group and even the post-doctoral researchers have the same 'baby-steps' problems you mentioned. It doesn't even apply only to people new to the program, my collegues and I have been working in Comsol for years, and we each primarily use different modules which we've become fairly adept with. If the situation arrises that I want to use a new module though, I feel like a complete beginner again.
So I'd like to stress, that this problem applies even to the "PhD types" and academics. I think the only people who have a headstart are people that have a specific FEA-based background (like some engineers perhaps). I think many people come to Comsol for the first time with no prior FEA background and while the UI is amazing and makes the model building intuitive, it's all out the window when you click that 'compute' button and it throws up an error.
I honestly don't mean to underestimate the importance of users really trying hard to learn the principles of the software and the physics behind their problems - this is what Ivar has always stressed and I think he's right to do so. I just think the documentation could make it considerably easier for those without an FEA background to do exactly that.
Thanks for adding to the discussion, Dennis.
By the way, Amanda Brunton from Comsol kindly emailed me to express interest in this issue, and she's told me that she'll keep an eye on this thread so you opinions would be most welcome.
Kind regards,
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January 29, 2013 7:54pm UTC in response to Dominic Clarke
Re: Straw Poll: Who would like to see the model gallery documentation overhauled???
I have another comment here: as I'm not so sure COMSOL is so "easy" for a FEM specialist coming from "older" FEM programmes.
I had done quite some N&A programming (two well know programmes used by different engineering communities), actually I followed closely and interpreting the results, as at that time we had and older collegue with many years of FEM experience. When he retired, we switched to COMSOL (because of the multiphysics) and I had to take over the FEM analysis for the group, I must say I had a hard time, because my mind was turned in the "old way, concetrating first on the mesh, applying BC to the nodes, and you loose the nice approach of COMSOL: thinking physics first. And before, we were limited to structural and some thermo-structural analysis, and a detailed model took us months to build, run and validate!
Now, that I have finally understood the COMSOL approach, I'm rediscovering physics and really enjoying it, as I can mix physics as never before, and even the FEM math aspect is taken over by COMSOL, under the hood, so now you can really think physics first, and you discover you have forgotten a lot, and that most simplification we use "traditionally" are really drastic, detailed effects show up, and the nice animated images from COMSOL lighten up your presentations, even if pages of equations, to verify the same calculation, impresses the audience, the "wow" effect comes from the images to illustrate even simple models.
Concerning prices, I must admit that today COMSOL is far cheaper in purchase (for an industrial) than the other tools I know and can mix far more physics in a simple way (but lets not tell COMSOL, they might change that ;).
Finally for the training, all (serious) software providers proposes courses, what I see with COMSOL is that the quality of the engineers giving the courses (at least the one I meet here in Europe) is well above average, something I havent really felt for other tools and courses I have taken and prices are rather mid leve (but I live in a "rich" country, what about places with many young enginners but far less budgets for their work ?l.
Nevertheless, training should ideally be done in the high schools, technical schools/univeristies and the univeristy/enginnering level. But this require a change in the mentality (or of generation?) of our professors/teachers I believe. It's a subject I often exchange with those of my study colleages that are now teaching: how to learn to younger students the essence of COMSOL Multiphysics programming? whithout having to learn them all the subtilities of FEM math theory, but still get them to "feel" when the results are fundamentally wrong ? I havent found the answer yet, suggestions highly appreciated ! And for class kits, the COSMOL price is really competitive, I find.
"COMSOL is only for PhD's": I do not believe so, but I agree, for me as engineer, it's still too "science prone", and some house-keeping actions take too long to set up, repetitively. I would like to have more built in V&V (verification and validation) but here I see also a challenge, as the traditional rules do not all apply to COMSOL, and the multiphysics aspects make it complex to define some simple rules.
For me the main questions remain:
- how to verify that the geometry has ben correctly/created imported, units, sizes, scale ...?
- are all material at the right place ? total mass, inertia ...
- are the correct BC's set up nicely ? any overconstarints?
- are the main conservation laws respected ? integration over relevant BCs
- are the mesh density corret w.r.t. dependent variable gradients, are these correctly resolved ? relevant plots ?
But all this applies differently for each physics and physics combination, quite a subect to treat ;)
But this is essential to make the tool even more user friendly or less error prone (due to typos or user misunderstandings)
Comments from the academics teaching physics with COMSOL highly appreciated :)
Auxilliary comment:
Why shoudl'nt our young science/math students, all over, that today are writing fancy programmes or playing advanced computer games, not have as much fun simulating physics with COMSOL (as I do) ?
Good luck
PS: COMSOL had one interesting webinar (in German), last year, commenting experiences in using COMSOl for the student training in the technical universities in Germany it's probably recorded somewhere
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January 29, 2013 8:24pm UTC in response to Ivar Kjelberg
Re: Straw Poll: Who would like to see the model gallery documentation overhauled???
Thanks again,
My feature suggestion only goes as far as a (relatively) small documentation update. Not to devalue the training days, but I think I speak for a lot of people in that I like to have the resources to work through problems on my own if possible.
I know it's a very different program, but I like the way Mathworks does the Matlab documentation. It probably wouldn't suit Comsol docs to have every seperate function layed out in separate pages as in Matlab, but it would be nice to see a better connection between general theory (in the help files) and worked examples (in the model documentation). As it stands, they are completely separate and it is not straightforward to connect a given part of the general theory to a specific aspect of your model. This is my main problem with Comsol documentation.
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January 30, 2013 7:20pm UTC in response to Dominic Clarke
Re: Straw Poll: Who would like to see the model gallery documentation overhauled???
In my opinion, COMSOL is the best in terms of information availability as compared to other FEA software. I don't think it's fair to compare COMSOL to Matlab in this regard. Using COMSOL requires much deeper knowledge of the subject than Matlab does.
Some of the examples are very well done while others are just a sequence of steps with no explanation whatsoever. Obviously there is a room for improvement here.
But the biggest problem are the help files, containing a lot of useless information like the following: "The value in the Maximum element size field specifies the maximum allowed element size."
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January 31, 2013 3:14pm UTC in response to Alexander Kuznetsov
Re: Straw Poll: Who would like to see the model gallery documentation overhauled???
Hello All,
We are in the process of rewriting the product documentation entirely. This is a major project that may take up to a year to complete. We will make available new versions of the various books as they are finished.
A new version of "Introduction to COMSOL Multiphics" has been made available today for download separately at www.comsol.com/shared/download...uctionToCOMSOLMultiphysics.pdf .
It is also bundled with the product download starting today.
As always, we welcome feedback.
February 13, 2013 1:59pm UTC in response to Jeff Hiller
Re: Straw Poll: Who would like to see the model gallery documentation overhauled???
Dear all
just to "bump" this one:
I would be very happy to read a bit more about how COMSOL is teached in the different technical schools/universities aroudn the world, to give me some hints how this can be done in the most efficient way.
How do you deal with the documentation, recommend it, give fully you own lectures ...
In particular how can we learn to younger students the COMSOL and PDE solving via FEM techniques, without learning tem absolutely all the details of all FEM math principles ?
Dear professors, and students, how is it done at your place ?
Learn by doing, by studying (what the doc, the examples books, courses ...)
comments appreciated
Good luck
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Dubai is not systemically significant. If its troubles open our eyes to the likely imminence of the start of the final leg of the journey from household default through bank default to sovereign default, it may do some systemic good, by alerting fiscal policy makers to the vulnerability of their nations' fiscal-financial positions, and by educating citizens and voters to the urgency of deep fiscal burden sharing.
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Read part I: Fiscal and monetary policy in a liquidity trap
Part II
Might fiscal expansion be a free lunch? This is the question addressed in a thought-provoking paper "Fiscal Policy in a Depressed Economy", March 2012, by Brad DeLong and Larry Summers, the most important conclusion of which is obvious, but largely ignored: the impact of fiscal expansion depends on the context. *
In normal times, with resources close to being fully utilised, the multiplier will end up very close to zero; in unusual times, such as the present, it could be large enough and the economic benefits of such expansion significant enough to pay for itself. In a liquidity trap fiscal retrenchment is penny wise, pound foolish. Indeed, relying on monetary policy alone is the foolish policy: if it worked, which it probably will not, it does so largely by expanding stretched private balance sheets even further.
As the authors note: "This paper examines the impact of fiscal policy in the context of a protracted period of high unemployment and output short of potential like that suffered by the United States and many other countries in recent years. We argue that, while the conventional wisdom rejecting discretionary fiscal policy is appropriate in normal times, discretionary fiscal policy where there is room to pursue it has a major role."
There are three reasons for this. Read more