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You won't be able to dismiss this by usual means (escape or click button), but you can close it programatically based on user choices or actions.
"Great design with a tint of nostalgia. WPD designers are easy to work with - incorporated more wording on the back of the card at my request. Customer service was also top notch. My cards were delayed - WPD happily sent me another batch for next day delivery. Would definitely recommend this design and WPD in general to friends."
"I was so afraid to order my shipment without seeing the exact card proof but I love them! I had ordered the LINEN background because others had recommended it, and instead of the textured I ordered the PEARL WHITE SHIMMER for a more modern look. I couldn't be happier with them. It looks like, from other reviewers, you really have to change the background to linen if you want the shimmer. I hadn't liked the roughness of the original sample. The red is a bit on the pink side but not too much. The designers were able to put the little Ganesh in the top circle for me which I was very impressed with! I definitely recommend!"
"This is a simple elegant card but the bride and groom didn't like the organge color of the coral, so with the designer's help it was changed to a smoke gray - both the invitation as well as response and details card. Feel free to be creative - you can have your own perfect card! Only dissappointment was they don't provide "inside" envelopes - only outside. Too late to add them now. Should be provided at no extra cost."
"I am having and as Asian-American wedding and was looking for an invitation that wouldn't put us over out budget but still had a nice Asian flair. I loved the design and to top it off the little elephant on the front and back made everything come together perfectly. My family is from Laos the land of a million elephants. I was able to keep the information simple yet it still made the invitation beautiful. The customer service was wonderful. I received my proofs within a timely manner and when I did come in contact with any staff they were always friendly, and knowledgeable."
"I have recently ordered this in the gold text with the white envelopes. Quality of paper, text and colours were brilliant, clear resolution and of fine quality. All personal design requests that i had made were dealt with in no time, quick, friendly helpful service. All ordered online, did not have to telephone or get in contact with anyone, was a simple and easy process overall. Delivery of this item was much faster than i had anticipated, as it was an international delivery it was delivered within 2 working days, which i am very pleased with as i was told it would take up to 5-11 days. Very pleased with this product and with Wedding Paper Divas, especially as this was my first time coming across this website and purchasing from here. i will most definitely recommend this card for someone who is looking for a simple yet elegant wedding invitation. I will also be ordering from Wedding Paper Divas again as i am really impressed with the service, quality and range of choice."


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Get the best in surveillance and security for your home or business with our incredible selection of IP network cameras. BrickHouse Security internet security cameras let you view live video over the Internet from anywhere in the world. All you need is web access and you can monitor video from these high-resolution security cameras on a PC or tablet, even on your smartphone. Choose wireless IP security cameras, pan/tilt/zoom cameras, outdoor security cameras, multi-camera security systems and more.
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subset: commoncrawl


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Posted 5 years ago
(179 items)
I recently bought a 1908 Sears Roebuck catalog at auction. They made a reproduction of this catalog in the 90s but this one was the real deal. Front cover was gone and back few pages damaged pretty badly, but the 900+ pages in between have some really cool stuff. I decided that given the lack of cover the best thing to do with this may be to "part it out". I have been removing selected pages and framing them. Will post my first few that I have done.
Here is a page from the fishing section along with an old fly fishing reel and some of my old lures


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Try the Solstice in Times Square: Athleta Mind Over Madness Yoga Event
Join the giant yoga class in Times Square and get some "ohm."
-PJ Gach
Even if you've never taken a yoga class, you'll have a lot of fun in four of the world's largest free yoga classes smack in the middle of Times Square on the longest day of the year, Wednesday, June 20, 2012.
Soltice in Times Square:Athleta Mind Over Madness Yoga will be held smack dab in the middle of Times Square at the Crossroads of the World. That's at Broadway between 42nd and 47th Streets.
Read 5 Yummy Organic Cocktails for Spring
Yes, there are classes! You can try any of the three Open classes or the Bikram class. At the event, participants will be serenaded by music, listen to speakers, raffles and a bunch more.
Mediterranean Snacks is one of the sponsors of this event. Stop by their booth, try some of their healthy Baked Lentil Chips or Lentil Crackers, get a cute sunflower tattoo and if you're spotted wearing it, you might win a cool prize.
Here's the class schedule for the day:
7:30 AM – 8:45 AM Open to all levels (Drisana Carey)
12:30 PM – 2:00 PM Bikram, open to all levels (Rajashree Choudhury)
3:30 PM-4:45 PM – Open to all levels (Douglass Stewart)
7:00 PM – 8:30 PM – Open to all levels (Dana Flynn)
To pre-register for a class, please visit the official site of Times Square.
Will you Salute the Sun or do Downward Dog in Times Square?
PJ Gach is Senior Editor: Style + Beauty at BettyConfidential.


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BP Comment Quick Links
November 29, 2005
Predictatron Pontification
Sizing Up the WinnersHACKING MASS results, so this time we'll take a look at the other Baseball Prospectus fantasy contest, Predictatron. Our own Jim Baker was kind enough to share this contest idea with the tech crew, and the first annual contest has gotten rave reviews from staff and readers alike.
Previously, we looked at the distribution of picks and got into considerable statistical jargon. This time, we'll keep it lighter and look at how the contest actually transpired. In case you're not familiar with Predictatron, check out the rules. If you had your own entry, you can view the details of your ballot here.
Here is an example of the detailed ballots, this one for our winner, Greg Ferguson:
Greg's score: 1000 - 154 + 12 = 858
As you can tell, Greg did an excellent job predicting team wins this year. The only team he was more than 9 wins off for was the White Sox (as we'll see, that was fairly common this year). Greg notably had both of his mortal lock picks, Kansas City and Tampa Bay, pegged exactly right. He did make up a few points in the playoffs, getting 6 of the 8 playoff teams correct. Those 12 points were enough to propel him to victory, holding off the second place finisher, who earned 18 points for correct playoff predictions.
In talking to Greg, he revealed that he didn't have any secret formula. He entered originally as a way to procrastinate at work, and forgot about the competition for much of the year. Checking back into it, he found himself in first place at the start of the playoffs. As we noted before, his playoff bracket was good for 12 points, getting 6 of the first round teams correct. He's planning on using his winnings toward travel out to California's East Bay to visit his parents over the holidays. Happy travels, Greg.
As a point of comparison, here is a list of how far off the median win guesses were (MGD stands for Median Guess Difference):
Team MGD ANA 5 ARI 5 ATL 2 BAL 6 BOS 2 CHA 20 CHN 9 CIN 2 CLE 8 COL 2 DET 5 FLO 3 HOU 9 KCA 9 LAN 17 MIL 6 MIN 7 NYA 0 NYN 1 OAK 1 PHI 0 PIT 3 SDN 5 SEA 8 SFN 7 SLN 7 TBA 2 TEX 1 TOR 7 WAS 13
This median ballot would score 828 points before we subtract for whichever two teams were selected as Mortal Locks, and without getting any points back for playoff picks. Interestingly, a score of 828 would place about 135th, which is about 88th percentile for the 1095 ballots.
It is no surprise that the biggest misses for the ballots as a whole were the White Sox, Dodgers and Nationals. What is fascinating, though, is that the highest guess for the White Sox total wins was 95, which was 4 wins lower than their actual total, 99 wins. If we treat the team's win total like a binomial distribution, where p is the team winning percentage, then the highest win guess for the White Sox was actually half a standard deviation lower than the mean. One ballot had the White Sox at 64 wins, over 5.5 standard deviations below the mean.
Miraculously, one user did accurately predict this year's World Series winner. Congrats to Beau Underwood, who has bragging rights over friends for decades to come.
Regardless of what you think contributed to the Dodgers' poor season, Predictatron balloters didn't see it coming. Only 2 people guessed a win total lower than the Dodgers' actual total of 71 wins (99.8% of ballots missed this). For the Nationals, just 7 ballots were at 81 wins or higher (and 99.36% of ballots were lower).
To finish up, we'll look at the standings of Baseball Prospectus staff predictions:
Ironically, in the first annual competition, Predictatron's creator, Jim Baker, came in last among staffers. Thanks to all to for making the first iteration such a success, and we'll look forward to playing next year.
0 comments have been left for this article.
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DEFEAT at Plymouth in December plummeted Bury into the League Two relegation zone, just two games into David Flitcroft's tenure.
The Shakers boss described that 2-1 reverse as a dark moment, but fast forward four months and the contrast was startling.
Bury went into the break with a slender one-goal advantage, following Andrew Tutte's early opener, but stormed clear in the second period with a quick-fire double from Daniel Nardiello and a deserved late goal from Danny Rose.
"I thought it was a complete performance," said Flitcroft in the post match press conference, as he reflected on just how far his side had come since the reverse fixture.
"At times I didn't want to watch that game (in Plymouth). I didn't trust what I actually put out there.
"That was a dark moment for me as a coach because I felt completely vulnerable on the sidelines, whereas today you've seen how dynamic the boys look.
"Some of the interchange and combination play was outstanding and I was delighted by some really assured performances."
The lively Tutte showed great vision to put Hallam Hope in behind the Plymouth backline with a lovely ball around the corner in only the second minute, but the on-loan striker's shot was blocked.
Plymouth, who started the day just four points outside the play-off places, were not intent on sitting back and Lewis Alessandra missed a glorious chance to hand them an early lead, dragging a shot wide after being put clean through.
Tutte made full use of the let-off to put Bury ahead in the eighth minute, getting on the end of a one-two with Hope before planting a shot under the dive of Pillgrims stopper Jake Cole.
The visitors continued to look dangerous, however, and wasted two more gilt-edged chances before the break.
Midfielder Andres Gurrieri blazed over from six yards after Jensen could only parry a stinging Reuben Reid shot into his path.
And Reid was left thumping the turf in frustration after his glancing header bounced just the wrong side of the post.
But any thoughts of a Plymouth comeback were snuffed out by Nardiello's three-minute second-half brace.
The referee's assistant rightly flagged for a penalty after the striker was impeded on the goal-line and he dusted himself down to fire home the resulting penalty in the 49th minute.
Bury's leading goalscorer then applied the finish that Chris Hussey's sublime cross deserved, heading in his 11th goal of the season in Bury colours.
Shakers' on-loan striker Rose, who replaced Hope for the final 35 minutes, then took centre stage.
He clipped the bar with a curled shot from the edge of the box before twice going close from Nardiello passes and then seeing a header cleared off the line.
The Barnsley forward finally got his just reward three minutes from time, placing a Clive Platt lay-off into the bottom corner from the edge of the box to extend Bury's unbeaten run at the JD Stadium to 15 games.
The victory – Bury's fourth in five matches – also saw them move to within a point of Plymouth and seven of the play-off places with three games of the season remaining.
BURY: Jensen 7; Jones 7, Mills 8, McNulty 7, Hussey 9; Soares 7, Sedgwick 7 (Miller 7 66), Tutte 9, Mayor 7; Hope 8 (Rose 9 56), Nardiello 8 (Platt 79).
Not used: Cameron, Procter, Grimes, Charles-Cook.
PLYMOUTH ARGYLE: Cole; Berry, Trotman (Young 60), Nelson, Purrington; Gurrieri (Thomas 60), Hourihane, Blizzard, Banton; Alessandra (Showunmi 60), Reid.
Not used: Boco, Wotton, Harvey, Dawson.
Goals: Bury - Tutte 8, Nardiello 49 & 52, Rose 87.
Yellow cards: Plymouth Argyle – Berry 86.
Referee: Eddie Ilderton (Tyne & Wear).
Attendance: 3,401 (553 visiting).
Star man: Daniel Nardiello – Bury's star striker has looked to be struggling for form and fitness in recent games but he was back on the boil on Saturday, energised perhaps by loan signings Hallam Hope and Danny Rose. Indeed, if Rose had been on for the full 90 minutes rather than replacing Hope in the second half he could easily have stolen the plaudits, but Nardiello put in one of his most complete performances and deservedly bagged two more goals to add to his tally.


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Amendments to the IOLTA Committee Guidelines have been made pertaining to the Stabilization Fund. In Section 5(a), the IOLTA Committee proposed clearer language about proper investment of IOLTA funds reserved in a stabilization fund. In Sections 5(d), 5(e) and 4(c), the committee proposed a more complete guideline regarding the amounts of funds that may be reserved by, and how much funds are to be accounted for, by the three charities which receive IOLTA funds. In Sections 5(e), 5(f), 4 (a) and 4 (b), the committee proposed related procedural changes to reflect the proposed new guidelines.


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WEST Midlands Ambulance Service is appealing for people to become Community First Responders (CFRs.
Volunteers are particularly needed in and around Malvern, Upton-upon-Severn, Tenbury and Broadway.
CFRs are everyday members of the public who are trained in lifesaving techniques including the use of a defibrillator, a device used to restart the heart of someone who has suffered a cardiac arrest.
They will be called by the ambulance service's control room to medical emergencies in their area while an ambulance is en-route and are vital in life-threatening situations.
Noel Orbell, Community Response Manager, said: "Volunteers come from all walks of life. When they make themselves available to respond they can continue to go about their daily lives, but if an emergency call is received by the ambulance service within a five or six mile radius, they are sent and always backed-up by an emergency ambulance service vehicle.
"To volunteer, you must be aged 18 or over, have a full driving licence and lots of enthusiasm.
"Help will be provided in obtaining the necessary equipment and no previous experience is necessary as West Midlands Ambulance Service will provide the training."
Michelle Brotherton, West Midlands Ambulance Service General Manager for the West Mercia area added: "We really support Community First Responders and call upon them to help their local community.
"Community First Responders are an integral part of the ambulance service. The work they do is outstanding and is greatly valued."
For details or to volunteer, call Mr Orbell on 07980 094808, the CFR Admin office on 01384 215855 or email email@example.com.


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You won't be able to dismiss this by usual means (escape or click button), but you can close it programatically based on user choices or actions.
"Loved the design for the save the dates for my beach destination wedding! The quality was great and I was surprised how great the post card came out. Also, the designer/artist was able to accommodate my request to add a line of text which I appreciated! Thank you - love my save the dates! Highly recommend!"
"I love that I was able to put on my engagement photos and arrange them how I wanted. It added a personal touch to the card, along with going with the nautical theme of our wedding. I think the card being a postcard is super cute! Saves me some money instead of buying envelopes! Overall, I enjoyed the whole card and I am so incredibly happy with the product!"
"My save the date cards look beautiful! I loved that I could personalize it by changing the colours of the card to my exact wedding colours. Also, the customer service was excellent and shipping was also super fast!"
"Simple and adorable! Magnet quality is amazing, design and lettering is flawless. Just ordered the matching invites too!"
"I love our Save the Date cards! The Wedding Paper Divas staff sent me an email to clarify before production. The cards were shipped very quickly and the picture quality is outstanding! I even received a personalized thank you card from the person who designed the order! I will be using the Wedding Paper Divas for all of my stationary needs! Thank you!"


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The weather this week is going to be gorgeous in the Big Bear Valley. Now's the time to hike one of the many trails that show off the beauty of the valley, such as the Interpretive Woodland trail. If you go, check out the informative guide at the trailhead. There you'll find descriptions and markers along the trail of twenty different flora indigenous to Big Bear Lake.
Big Bear Lake Weather
Monday, October 17- High 74°, Low 38°
Tuesday, October 18- High 73°, Low 35°
Wednesday, October 19- High 68°, Low 33°
Thursday, October 20- High 69°, Low 34°
Friday, October 21- High 68°, Low 34°
Saturday, October 22- High 68°, Low 34°
Sunday, October 23- High 68°, Low 34°
What to do this week in Big Bear
Hike the Woodland Trail
Before the snow flies and the skiing season sets in take advantage of the few remaining beautiful days to hike the Woodland Trail. The trail is an approximately 1 ½ mile loop that features moderately steep terrain on a well maintained trail. The trail is stroller, bike, and wheelchair friendly so that everyone can enjoy.
Our General Manager, Roger took these photos this weekend – thanks Roger! Visit the Big Bear Discovery Center for more information on the Woodland Interpretive Trail and other family friendly trails in Big Bear.
Big Bear Haunted House
Panic in the Park Haunted House 2011 is opening this weekend at the Meadow Park Gym. October 21-22, and 28-30th from 6-9pm the ghouls and ghosts of Big Bear will be happy to scare the daylights out of you! The cost is $5.00 per person.
Big Bear Oktoberfest
There are only two more weekends to go to visit the 41st Annual Oktoberfest at the Big Bear Lake Convention Center. If you are visiting Big Bear during this event you definitely do not want to miss it!
Did we miss anything? What events are you attending this week?


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This opinion piece presents the opinions of the author.
Within the last two weeks, the oil market delivered some bad news for oil and gas companies operating in Western Canada. The bad news can be summarized by the headline of an article on the commodity page of the Financial Times: "Canada's oil becomes cheapest in world amid glut in Alberta."
The forces that have created this situation include surging oil production, lower demand due to refinery maintenance and a chronic shortage of pipeline capacity to move growing volumes beyond the regional Canadian market. The impact of these conditions caused the price for Western Canada Select, the regional benchmark for low quality, viscous heavy oil, to fall below $45 a barrel, less than half the cost of other crude oil benchmarks. This price disparity is estimated to be costing the Canadian oil and gas industry about C$2.5 billion per month, or an annualized income loss of C$30 billion, or about 1.6% of Canada's gross domestic product.
With the price of Canada's heavy oil this low, it is selling for less than half the $111 a barrel price (December 26, 2012) consumers are paying for Brent oil, the global oil benchmark. Furthermore, Canada's oil is now selling at about $41 a barrel below the United States' benchmark West Texas Intermediate crude oil, which in turn is trading nearly $23 a barrel below Brent.
The gap between WTI and Canada's oil price is the most since December 2007. Prospects are that the situation is likely to get worse in the first half of 2013 before it improves. These low levels for the benchmark crude oils of North America reflect surging production in the United States that has been unleashed by the oil shale revolution and the rise in Canada's oil sands output. Based on the latest data available from the Energy Information Administration (EIA), Canada's oil production has climbed above four million barrels a day (mmb/d) while U.S. production is the highest it has been since 1998. Until oil consumption ramps up, or Canada finds another export market or the U.S. government liberalizes its oil export restrictions, the glut in North American heavy oil will continue to grow.
Since 2000, with the growth in oil sands output, Alberta's total oil production has increased by about 1.4 mmb/d. Plans call for an additional 100,000 barrels per day of oil sands output coming on line early next year from Imperial Oil Company's (IMO-NYSE) new Kearl mine. Canada's production growth is about equal to the output of Libya, a mid-sized OPEC producer, showing the significance of the country's new output in the global oil market.
Until this production glut is resolved, Canada' crude oil will continue to sell at a steep discount to other benchmark crude oils, costing Canadian producers significant cash flow. That means there is a growing likelihood that as this wide price gap continues producers will be forced to reduce their expenditures compared to what they would spend otherwise. That could be bad news for the Canadian oil and oilfield service industry in the second half of 2013 if the pricing gap doesn't shrink.
G. Allen Brooks works as the Managing Director at PPHB LP. Reprinted with permission of PPHB.
Click on the button below to add a comment.
Generated by readers, the comments included herein do not reflect the views and opinions of Rigzone. All comments are subject to editorial review. Off-topic, inappropriate or insulting comments will be removed.
Shaolin | May. 12, 2013If domestic crude is cheap I would move towards downstream business. The finished product if brought to market earlier than US would sell at a premium. Why should Canada remain a net exporter of just natural resource.
Rodney | Jan. 4, 2013Perhaps this is what needs to happen to evoke the the winds of change. Unfortunately Canada (both relevant parties) have a history of sluggish behavior towards infrastructure investment and leadership toward it. Its a shame that ingrained lethargy and myopic vision could cause massive layoffs and another shutdown of the sands until action is taken. If Canada were a business the alternate oil delivery to auxiliary markets would already be underway in a big hurry.
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Ideal for doorway applications and for transitioning between floors of different heights.
Place your order now through our web site, call 1-800-HARDWOOD to talk to one of our sales representatives, or click here to find the closest store to you.
Reviewed by 2 customers
Comments about Prefinished Colonial Plank Threshold:
This floor is very pretty. It changed the look of the whole house. Did about 1000sqft of living area. Liked it so much going to do all the bedrooms now too.
Best Uses
Comments about Prefinished Colonial Plank Threshold:
This flooring is beautiful installed. My husband and I are extremely happy with this flooring. It was easy to work with. We installed almost 1,000 square feet in three days....prep work extra, of course. We have two large dogs. The finish and the variety in the wood work really well to keep scratches and dings hidden. I have just used shoe polish to hide larger scratches. LOVE IT and would recomend it to anyone!
Do you have questions about this product?
AnswerBox - Get answers from Staff Experts and real customers by clicking "Ask a question" or click here to ask our Customer Service Team
Q:What particular type of birch is this?
1 answer
A:It is Chinese Birch.
Q:How would the durability of this product compare with oak?
1 answer
A:Birch is marginally harder than oak. As for the finish there is 7 coats of Treffert or Klumpp (made in Germany) highly resistant polyurethane finish with aluminum oxide anti-scratch and a 55% gloss. The same finish on oak would wear the same.
Q:We recently installed the handscraped cocoa birch in our dining room. It is stunning... but, within a week, it was already scratched up and looking a mess. I bought some espresso stain and touched it up and that worked well. Now I'd like to polyurethane a few coats over the stain to protect the floor from future damage. Would a waterbased polyurethane work on this finish? I tested on an extra piece and it seems to be adhering well. Thanks
1 answer
A:Section sanding and finishing is possible. You can tape around the effected boards, sand, and finish with a semigloss flooring grade waterbased urethane. The closest way to match gloss is to go to a local homecenter that has a computer matching system where they can read a sample of the flooring gloss percentage. This will give you decent results but is a bit of work. Resealing will void warranty. Sealer won't adhere to original finish unless it's lightly sanded and then use a water based flooring grade urethane. Or you would use a Bona Kemi prefinished floor resealing product. Www.bonakemi.com. However this is not recommended for pre-finished flooring unless it is worn and in need of refinishing.
Q:Why does installation instructions say 'do not install flooring under permanent or fixed cabinetry'?
1 answer
A:When kitchen base cabinets are installed over a floor the boards can separate or buckle when the moisture level (relative humidity) and temperature changes due to lack of expansion space.
Q:what expansion room should be left between this and the wall? I see in the installation instructions it says 5/8" is this correct? Also, I was reading the other questions and a response to one them is you cannot use 18gauge staples or cleats because of the thickness of this product. However it is stated that the boards are 5/8" so from what I am reading 18 gauge would be just fine. Please correct if I am wrong.
1 answer
A:Yes 5/8" expansion is required.
Q:What is the length of this product?
1 answer
A:These boards will be random lengths up to 36"
Q:can I purchase a gallon of stain for this product to do some touch-ups? does Lumber Liquidators or Virginia Mill Work sell the stain?
1 answer
A:Unfortunately this stain is not available in a can for retail sale. I would recommend bringing a scrap piece of the flooring to a paint store and they should be able to match the stain for you. Thank you for your inquiry.
Q:what is the gage of the nails recommended on a 5/8 cocoa birch handscraped wood.
1 answer
A:CLEAT NAILER (examples) 16 gage
Q:I have large (inside) dogs. What spec(s) should I look for specifically when considering which wood to choose?
1 answer
A:Low gloss laminates with AC3 ratings tend to be the most durable and scratch resistant. Many people also like to use ¾" hard solid wood flooring because it can be refinished many times if the dogs were to create a lot of scratches and wear to the flooring. Natural Strand bamboo could also work because it is such a hard species of flooring.
Q:can i get a price on this flooring
1 answer
A:The Lumber Liquidators Installation Service is managed by The Home Service Store (HSS).HSS @ 1-877-477-1116


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AMD A10-7800 Review: Testing the A10 65W Kaveriby Ian Cutress on 7/31/2014 8:00 AM EST
147 Comments
Back to Article
edlee - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkNice review, but if I had a budget gaming machine, I would buy an inexpensive i5 with a better gpu Reply
Rais93 - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkYou do not understand what budget or inexpensive mean. An i5 complete platform costs few more than an a10 system, but for many people few dollars matters Reply
nathanddrews - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkAMD A10-7850K - $170
Decent FM2+ A88X mobo - $70 ($40-100)
Total base cost $240
Intel i5-4590S - $170
Decent 1150 H87 mobo - $70 ($30-400)
Total base cost $240
Add any identical dGPU, RAM, HDD/SSD, case, PSU, OS and the Intel system will dominate in every scenario for the same price.
If no dGPU is allowed, then the AMD wins (in games and OCL/HSA only)... but would you seriously NEVER add a dGPU, even a year or two later? The moment that you do, you've essentially wasted your money on AMD. That's why the budget argument never makes much sense to me. You'll spend more over time buying ineffective budget rigs than you would if you spent more less often. Reply
Flunk - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkIf you're comparing Intel and AMD, as soon as you add the dGPU there is no reason to buy AMD. The CPU portion of the A10 is more comparable to an i3 than an i5 (and much worse single-thread perfomrance), you're paying for the iGPU more than anything.
AMD's A-series processors make the most sense in cheap laptops that would never get a dGPU. Half-decent GPU and CPU performance make sense there. But if you're talking desktop, the second you add a GPU the value proposition flies out the window. Reply
silverblue - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkThere IS the option of Crossfire with an R7 but you can't rely on it to always boost performance. Still, it's a better proposition than in the past. Reply
Samus - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkAMD CPU power efficiency is also a 2.4:1 ratio to Intel.
For example, AMD's FX-4350 is the most competitive CPU they have (in price) to an i3-4330. The i3 completely destroys it in most benchmarks, yet it uses 54w and the FX uses 125w.
That's anywhere from $8-$15/year in power usage depending on the workload. Ammortize that over 4-5 years and you may have just spent $50 more in electricity on the AMD CPU. This doesn't account for additional HVAC costs (air condition needs to run more to cool a room with AMD CPU's, increasing energy usage even more)
It's the same fact over and over. AMD is irrelevant because of their dinosaur manufacturing capabilities. They're always 2 generations behind Intel. Reply
Gigaplex - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkYour electricity cost calculations assume 100% CPU load 100% of the time. Completely unrealistic. Reply
Samus - Friday, August 01, 2014 - linkDid you really not even read my comment? I clearly stated a range for a users workload. I didn't just give a universal figure.
$8-$15 is the range from average workload to 100% workload. And that's assuming you're rate is $0.08/kwh. Parts of the country, such as Socal, are upward of $0.24/kwh. This means, at full load, AMD CPU's would cost about $1.00/day if run at full load 24/7, an extreme scenario, but the point was they use around 2.4x more power.
Unfortunately for AMD, that figure isn't a consistent scale in their favor; AMD CPU's idle at nearly quadruple the power of Intel's because they have no high-K dialetric to completely powergate unutilized sections of a core. All they can do is shut cores off, meaning one full core will always be on.
I was focusing on 100% workload simply because that's the least embarrassing presentation for AMD. Reply
Audiolectric - Friday, August 01, 2014 - linkWell, different benchmarks taken by computerbase.de show that the 7800 actually idles at lower power consumption than the i3.
From my own experience i can verifiy that, but only for mobile CPUs/APUs. I did own a msi gx60 and a gt60, and the gx60 was giving me about 30% more runtime from the battery.
and except for compiling the linux kernel, i couldnt tell any difference in everyday performance. (Of Courage in some games the a10 5750m was limiting performance when the i7 3632qm did not) Reply
silverblue - Friday, August 01, 2014 - linkWell, one module would still be on, meaning two integer cores still being active. Still, there's nothing stopping a user from undervolting them and making significant power savings. Reply
Morawka - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkbut as you can see, if you have the Kavari GPU 512 config, it uses 65 watts minimum. That's waaaay to hot for a laptop. AMD makes great integrated gpu's but they produce comparible heat and power to a separate dedicated keplar or maxwell part.
AMD is being held back by being reliant on external FAB's. Intel is shrinking every 2 years and has a huge advantage. 14nm baking now, vs 28nm everyone else is on. Reply
Gigaplex - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkThat's why you get the mobile variant, not the desktop variant. Reply
asimov1979 - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkIntel i5-4590S is $190 not $170 as you stated.
http://www.amazon.com/Intel-Core-i5-4590S-Processo... Reply
nathanddrews - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkWhy people still buy CPUs from Newegg is beyond me.
I bought my 3570K from Microcenter for $159. Reply
bebimbap - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkShipping is beyond Microcenter Reply
Morawka - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkand microcenter only has about 12 locations lol. basically you gotta live in a huge city, and the cost of living offsets any discounts you'd get from a cheap cpu. Reply
inighthawki - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkThere's a Microcenter not too far from where I used to live in Ohio, and it wasn't really what I would consider a large city by any means. It was a pretty standard suburban area. It was about 40 minutes (give or take, I only went a couple times and I never had to drive) from my house, and we lived in pretty much the middle of nowhere. Reply
inighthawki - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkActually I just mapped it, it was 30 minutes away. Reply
kmmatney - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkOK - if you are using Microcenter, you can buy an AMD A10 7850 + motehrboard for $129, which is no where near the price you above above. This is with a mediocre MB (good enough for most people), but even a better one would only drive the price to $160. Reply
HardwareDufus - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkI haven't purchased a discrete Graphics Card in over 6 years. I've gone with Intel HD in the original 655K I5 CPU .. and now have HD3000 in my i7-3770k.
I will probably buy my very first high end laptop (I always go for middle of the road laptops) with a Broadwell I7 CPU with IGPHD5200 (with the 128MB L4 cache).. With a good fast SSD, I don't imagine I will feel at all comprimised... Day to day use it will feel as quick as all of the super rigs loaded with fans folks are still building.. I don't GAME... so what's the point in a dGPU? Reply
Cerb - Sunday, August 03, 2014 - linkGraphics, and monitor compatibility, up until Haswell. With Haswell, graphics performance (drawing, photo, video, CAD, etc.). Ivy Bridge's IGP, FI, couldn't keep the res right on my Dell 1080p monitors at work. This is 2014, and I still need a video card just for that? I can't speak to IB, but through SB AutoCAD's graphics would be glitchy with Intel's IGP (parts of a viewport not refreshed, or offset from where it should be), as another example. Haswell seems to have gotten rid of those problems. Reply
TiGr1982 - Sunday, August 03, 2014 - linkCore i7-3770K has HD 4000, not HD 3000 (Core i7-2600K/2700K had HD 3000). Reply
Wixman666 - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkREAL budget gaming machine? $45 socket 1150 motherboard, $75 Haswell Pentium G3420 dual core CPU, $120 Nvidia 750 Ti... $240 total. Good on CPU, and graphics runs circles around those both for the same price out of the gate. Forget the i5 or A10. Reply
tomsworkshop - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkPentium G3420 - 53W TDP
Geforce 750 Ti - 60W TDP
Total - 113W TDP
Form Factor - Full ATX / MicroATX
Pros - better CPU single threaded performance
Cons - higher TDP (more power consumption), higher noise level (more fans "CPU + GPU"), more heat, bigger size
Total - 65W TDP
Form Factor - MicroATX / Mini-ITX
Pros - lower TDP (less power consumption), lower noise level (less fan needed), lower heat, Small Form Factor, can hybrid crossfire with low profile discrete GPU
Cons - lower CPU single threaded performance Reply
The_Assimilator - Friday, August 01, 2014 - linkSure, let's totally ignore the fact that the 750Ti will annihilate the APU in gaming. Or that it's entirely possible to get mITX Intel motherboards. Reply
tomsworkshop - Friday, August 01, 2014 - linksure u can find the mini-itx intel motherboard for G3420 + 750 ti, but the high TDP (higher power consumption) still the matter we will care on this days, and the A10-7800 system could fit in the console size thin and slim casing, while the G3420 + 750 Ti system will not. Reply
evilsudoer - Friday, August 01, 2014 - linkThe calculation for power draw should probably take the idle numbers instead of the max. Or you could weight it to assume the cpu/gpu are idle 50-80% of the time.
Someone who games 8 hours a day probably will get a discrete graphics card regardless of power costs. Reply
tomsworkshop - Friday, August 01, 2014 - linkthe owner of the cyber cafe with 50-100 units gaming rig will care for the power cost, if the APU with lower power consumption can handle the games in medium setting at least, they will go for it. Reply
Andrew Lin - Tuesday, August 05, 2014 - linksorry, but this is actually a really stupid argument. Reply
tomsworkshop - Thursday, August 14, 2014 - linkyeah, i agree your argument are stupid, and why did u still leave this stupid comment here ? Reply
eanazag - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkA real budget Desktop PC based on AMD for gaming is going to be the A8-7600. The performance numbers are so close and the processor is also ~$100. The pricing on the 7850K doesn't make sense. The 7800 begins to get reasonable. The A88X chipset is a smidge better than the H87 from a feature standpoint. I think the 7850K should be around $145 and the 7800 around $125. Yes, AMD would take a hit on margin, but I think the volume could be better. Reply
tomsworkshop - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkthe 65W TDP A10-7800 & A8-7600 are good enough for day to day computing + gaming,
the intel-i5 may give u 2.5% more performance for the extra 25% cost for day to day computing but not for gaming, u still need to spend more for the dGPU if u wanna games, but that means the cost, TDP, heat & noise and your power bill will be increasing as well. Reply
Andrew Lin - Tuesday, August 05, 2014 - linkagain, i don't actually see what you're trying to say here. the system power usage of almost any intel i3 or i5 are a good amount lower than almost anything AMD has, and that's with far higher performance. the same argument about the dGPU can be made about AMD, but with worth propositions because then you've actually bought an APU for absolutely no reason. Reply
Andrew Lin - Tuesday, August 05, 2014 - linkthat should say "worse propositions" Reply
tomsworkshop - Thursday, August 14, 2014 - linkagain, we use both Intel CPU (without discrete GPU) and AMD APU here, we see no big different on applications which need a lot computing power, maybe a few second faster on the Intel system, but we see a big different for application that need a lot of graphic power, AMD APU shine on that area. the average joe that buy an system for day to day computing like online, office document, video playback, online games don't even need to computing power from the i5/i7, the core 2 duo or even Pentium 4 can be satisfy for them, you've actually bought an i5/i7 for absolutely no reason. Reply
tomsworkshop - Thursday, August 14, 2014 - linkbecause you are too stupid to understand and see the different or you just a plain blind Intel fanboy sheep, we all know that Intel CPU alone had little bit lower TDP than AMD offering, but the integratedGPU on the Intel CPU sucks big times, anyone in the right mind who build Intel system for gaming will sure need a discrete graphic card by geforce or by radeon, than it totally makes the Intel systems TDP far higher than current AMD 45W/65W APU, we already see that the 45W/65W A8-7600 can handle many modern games on medium setting, that pretty amazing for building a cybercafe gaming rigs, the owner with 50-100 units gaming rig build with AMD 45/W/65W APU will make profit and save money from cut down a lot power cost, the single chip AMD APU will also produce less heat than the intel cpu + discrete gpu, less heat in the cybercafe means less air condition needed = less power = cost saving, the single chip AMD APU will also produce less noise than the intel cpu + discrete gpu, less noise in the cybercafe lead to better environment quality for the cybercafe, that's make the big different which the kids like you can even see. Reply
max1001 - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkWhy in the world would someone buy an APU to get dGPU? Reply
tomsworkshop - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linklower power consumption, less noise and heat, small form factor, console size gaming rig and htpc Reply
Jon Tseng - Friday, August 01, 2014 - linkCatch 22:
1) AMD kicks ass if you want to game on integrated graphics only.
2) If care about gaming you'd never use integrated graphics only.
Therefore AMD's kickass integrated performance is only available people who don't care about gaming and don't need AMD's kickass integrated performance. Reply
mrcaffeinex - Friday, August 01, 2014 - linkI own an A10-7850K and I game on the iGPU exclusively. I primarily play older titles, but the performance is there for what I'm playing: Skyrim, Fallout: New Vegas, Rage, even a little Battlefield 3 from time to time...
1080p on high settings for older titles is not only playable on the iGPU, but gets 60 FPS on some titles. What more do you need for HTPC/light gaming duty?
I picked up the APU/Motherboard as a combo at MicroCenter for about $150 after tax. It fits in my slim HTPC case, runs cool (doesn't need the fan ramped up high enough to make it audible) and does what I need it to do.
The problem is that so many people become so focused on one single performance aspect that they overlook the myriad use-cases for these APUs, of which small-form-factor HTPCs are one. The A10-7800 is running the same iGPU with slightly lower-clocked CPU cores for less money, with a lower TDP, making them viable for even more consumers that do not have the need of a dGPU, but still want to do some casual gaming, which I bet encompasses a lot more people than the typically enthusiast crowd that frequents a site like Anandtech... Reply
medi02 - Saturday, August 02, 2014 - linkAbout 40% of Steam users use INTEL'S iGPU.
Another huge pack uses outdated GPUs.
Gamers = wasting money on idiotic rip offs like Titan is lame. Reply
DJone - Friday, August 01, 2014 - link1. 65W Kaveri A10-7800 costs $155, 65W Haswell i5-4590S costs $200
2. The only proper mobo comparison is A88X vs. Z97 - both are high-end, and in general A88X mobos are cheaper.
3. For the price difference between A10 and i5 you can allways buy more expensive dGPU that will make A10 system faster than i5 system! Reply
Haravikk - Monday, August 04, 2014 - linkI'm not sure I agree about the sentiment of wasting money on an integrated GPU if you get discrete graphics a year or two later. While it might be true today, the benchmarks including OpenCL performance show just how powerful a good APU can actually be, meaning it's an ideal physics accelerator even if you're using discrete graphics for pushing pixels. The issue really is whether games are going to take advantage of it, but I'm really hoping it will become a trend; it's certainly an area where AMD could really do with pushing some kind of physics on OpenCL library, as it's a prime candidate for an APU, even in a system with discrete graphics.
But if you're looking for a properly budget system then an AMD APU is absolutely the best option IMO. Personally I wouldn't suggest the A10's for that though, but comparable A8's (are those out yet?) as they are far more cost effective, you could even get your system below $200 and still play a lot of games on good settings. Reply
IUU - Wednesday, August 06, 2014 - link" but would you seriously NEVER add a dGPU, even a year or two later?"
No, I wouldn't. If I was so restricted that I couldn't buy a decent lowly dgpu... and would keep things simple , probably with lower power consumption too.
But this scenario is not valid even in developing countries, the exception being some really bad places where people actually starve. But these people, exactly because of their situation don't have any chance in computing.
So, AMD is in a really bad situation, but I don't believe for a moment that is actually a lack of talent responsible for this. What I am really afraid of , is maybe we have reached a kind of dead end(maybe temporary it doesn't matter). So, tech companies don't offer novelties, because they simply can't have any, or they are too few to waste hastily. Perhaps the new paradigm is not close and people in tech are panicking.. perhaps. Reply
Drumsticks - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkThe lowest priced i5 is $40 more than this, with only a 3 Ghz/3.2Ghz turbo. Then you consider needing to spend at least $100 to get good GPU performance, and +~$150 is not exactly in the same price bracket when we're talking about budget. Reply
Guspaz - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkThe A10-7800 is slower than a dual-core i3-4330, and is only $38 cheaper than either the quad core 3.2GHz/3.6GHz i5-3470, or the quad core 3.2GHz i5-4460...
For that extra 25% cost, the i5 will give you at least double the performance... Reply
duploxxx - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkOMG. did you ever had a reality check? double performance? daily usecase there are 2 things slowing down a system:
the choice of HDD vs SDD
the stupid windows OS.
All the rest is unreal theoretical benchmarking from review sites. the problem is as you and many more show every day, they actually believe theoretical benchmarking as true real performance.
poor it consumers.... Reply
Guspaz - Friday, August 01, 2014 - linkSo go put an SSD in your Pentium Pro. Double the CPU performance for 25% more cost and less power consumption is a fantastic proposition for me. Reply
kmmatney - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkDouble performance for what? I upgraded a while back from a Phenom II to a Core i5, and I have to admit the performance difference was minimal, as far as I could tell. going to an SSD is what really made things faster,and games are limited by my graphics card. For anyone using integrated for occasional gaming, AMD is a much better choice.
You can make an argument that AMD is a good choice for a gaming rig, since you can save so much on the processor + MB that you can get a better graphics card. For example, if you buy the 3.9 Ghz quad-core A8 6600K + motherboard for $100, you have $200 left to buy a graphics card - given a $300 budget.
Guspaz - Friday, August 01, 2014 - linkThis is true. AMD's processors generally offer good value, but terrible power efficiency... and they're often in the position where they've got the lowest absolute cost, but not the best performance-per-dollar. Reply
tomsworkshop - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkthe 25% extra cost u paid only give u 2.5% performance increase in reality Reply
Guspaz - Friday, August 01, 2014 - linkDepends on what you're doing. Want to encode a video? Then the 25% extra cost will cut render times in half (or better). Reply
bigboxes - Sunday, August 03, 2014 - linkSeriously, WTF? People that are encoding are not going to buy an APU. Stop with the fanboi nonsense. I have a quad core i7 processor in my main rig. I do whatever I want. However, I don't give a crap about gaming so I just have an $200 card just so I could do whatever I wanted without the machine hiccuping.
My wife doesn't encode, game, video edit or just about anything cpu intensive. So I got her an AMD APU recently after Athlon 64 X2 finally crapped out. Paired with a SSD and 8gb of ram it flies for her all important tasks of surfing the internet, typing Word documents, streaming Hulu/YouTube videos and the occasional online survey. Tell me why she needs a Pentium/i3/i5 or whatever super premium cpu you nerds can come up with? Tell me how she would even notice the difference? She doesn't even know what WinRAR is let alone understand how she could save a couple of seconds in packing/unpacking such a file. Yeah, it could be such a bitchin' machine if only... duh. All I care about is reliable and quick for her purposes. She'll be able to do anything she wants to do and it will breeze through any of those tasks. We had the internet go down yesterday and she couldn't figure out how to unplug the cable modem for the Time Warner rep and you're worried that she will take too long to convert her videos? Face it. She waits for me to come home and do it all for her. Of course, she sounds like a techie when it comes to her mother. Yeah, there's no place for an AMD apu. </sarcasm> Reply
Guspaz - Sunday, August 03, 2014 - linkWowzers, you're really missing the point. You think people don't need the cost/performance of the i5, which offers 100%+ more performance for 25% more money? Fine, that's a perfectly valid argument.
Except the i3-4330 included in this very review was significantly faster than the a10-7800, used less power... and costs at least $15 less.
In terms of accusing me of "fanboi nonsense", I've owned multiple AMD processors, and multiple AMD GPUs, stretching all the way back to the K6-2. But their current CPU product lineup is simply not competitive, except possibly at the very low end... and the a10-7800 is *NOT* at the very low end. It gets outperformed by cheaper and cooler Intel processors. Reply
bigboxes - Sunday, August 03, 2014 - linkI forgot she checks her email too. She desperately needs more processing power. :eyeroll: I think I'll stick with the superior on board video. Thanks. Reply
Andrew Lin - Tuesday, August 05, 2014 - linksounds to me like she doesn't even need the integrated GPU either. the integrated graphics of and core i3 sound more than suited to what you're wife is doing, from the sound of it. so what is she using the "superior on board video" of the more power hungry amd apu for again? Reply
bigboxes - Tuesday, August 05, 2014 - linkLook, I buy Intel chips for my high end rig. I use the horsepower. The price difference is negligible between the competing processors. The power usage doesn't matter to me in the slightest. To me the Kaveri will be sipping on the juice. I keep my boxes on 24/7 and I just don't have that high of an electrical bill. I only have my wife turn off her pc at night because of the fan controller's bright blue lights (her pc in in our bedroom). My wife likes to stream shows from the computer to an HD television while surfing the net on her monitor. I figure the extra headroom on the AMD APU would drive that without issue. Whatever the case, I just don't think the purchase is a waste like many are making it out to be. Reply
eanazag - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkWhere's the 45W performance numbers?
Where's the power consumption numbers in 65W and 45W?
How well does it work in the low power mode? Is there not speculation that it took so long because there were issues with the product?
What are the clocks in 45W mode?
Most of the commenters below are remarking about dGPUs, Crossfire, and budget PCs. Reply
johnny_boy - Friday, August 01, 2014 - linkCheck out Anand's review. You want someone to reproduce it in full here in the comments? Reply
johnny_boy - Friday, August 01, 2014 - linkThe price difference is significant. If you add a "decent" GPU then plan to spend around $200-300 more (including taxes) than the AMD system. That covers the costier i5 and a half-decent GPU like an R9 270. Reply
r3loaded - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkConclusion: Unless you absolutely need fast, integrated graphics, a cheap Haswell will stick kick AMD's ass. Reply
Creig - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkWhat Haswell system will keep up with Kaveri at the same price point? Reply
Anonymous Blowhard - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkA10-7800 - $150
FM2+ - $50 (maybe a Hudson D2 if you're lucky)
LGA1150 H87 mATX - $42
Sorry, that won't "keep up" with Kaveri - it will WRECK it. Reply
Flunk - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkYou're right, blowhard. It would crush it, except in CPU multithreaded benchmarks... But who cares about that?
The funniest thing about this build is that AMD products still soak up the majority of the budget. Reply
silverblue - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkThere are some instances that having a 2C/2T CPU will begin to make less and less sense as time goes on; for example, BF4 performance is reduced compared to the i3s and especially so compared to the i5s/i7s, but whilst this may become more and more common as time goes on with newer engines, there's still plenty of titles that a Pentium will shine in. However, will the frame latencies be acceptable? The following article does pose some interesting questions...
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2... Reply
FriendlyUser - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkI think you are right. The 4-core processors are way more future-proof. Single-thread performance has been very important but has also stagnated. Plus, we all know that the consoles are multi-core machines and game programmers will have to work with well-threaded engines. Reply
silverblue - Saturday, August 02, 2014 - linkIt's one of those situations where the more threaded an engine becomes, the more Kaveri should outperform Piledriver due to not having the decoder switching between threads all the time. Piledriver's saving grace is clock speeds, but if AMD was to be able to release a Kaveri refresh, I'm sure they'd have mastered the 28nm process by then and be able to get a bit more speed out for the same power. Reply
Computer Bottleneck - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkI liked article a lot. The author makes a good point about cpu to gpu balance.
Therefore, if frame time variance will be examined in the future with 2C/2T processors I would hope appropriately sized discrete cards would be used. Maybe R7 260X or smaller (at suitably low resolution and detail settings) is a good starting point for testing 2C/2T processors in the future? Reply
kmmatney - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkIf you lower the budget (take out the graphics card) you can get an A8 6600K + MB for $99.99 at Microcenter. For light gaming this will way outperform the Intel solution with IGP, anf be plenty good enough for all other uses. Reply
kmmatney - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkI'll admit - if you don't have a local Microcenter near you (I have one in Denver) then it's harder to go AMD. Reply
bsim500 - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkPrecisely. vs an i3-4330, an A10 7800 = 20% higher TDP + 10-20% lower performance even in quad-core optimised apps (Handbrake, etc) and up to 47% slower per core. It's better at games, assuming you "enjoy" playing PC games like it's still 1997 (1280 x 1024 5:4 aspect ratio + low quality textures + no-AA), which is about as useful as those old THG's benchmarks testing every game at 640x480 to "prove a point". The number of gamers looking to buy a modern CPU with a 19" 5:4 monitor is "ultra niche" to put it politely (unless that res was chosen precisely because it cannot handle smooth gaming at 1600 x 900 / 1920 x 1080)...
Seriously people, if you're playing any modern games, just end the "brave masochism" and buy a 2nd hand budget discrete card. I've saw 4x 7790's going for under $40 on EBay the other day and 1x 7850 for not much more. That small premium is worth it regardless of CPU for a +150-200% boost in fps and the ability to actually play with 21st century resolutions... Reply
Anonymous Blowhard - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkBoth the XB1/PS4 are struggling to get anywhere beyond 792p/900p and 30fps so IMO it's a fair comparison to them.
That's about the only space I can see Kaveri making any sense, in the extremely-small-form-factor boxes designed to sit under a TV unobtrusively. Board $75, memory $75, chip $150, HDD $50, case and PSU $50 ... comes out nicely to the $400 mark for a "complete system" (still needs KB/M/OS) that would be able to game about as well as the current-gen consoles and still be a PC when it needs to be.
Though frankly I'd rather the vastly improved performance at the same price point by allowing space for a dGPU and building a 750K or G3220 system with a 260X. Reply
Morawka - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkxbox one and ps4 soc has over double the SP's, Cache, and die size than this part, and much more cores. It can do 1080p just fine, but developers are prioritizing high polygon and high res textures over 60 fps gaming. Reply
tomsworkshop - Friday, August 01, 2014 - linkUnless you absolutely need fast, single threaded CPU performance, the AMD Kaveri APU still offer the most balance computing experience. Reply
frozentundra123456 - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkWould have been nice to have seen gaming results with some of the three games included in the free bundle, as well as some more demanding games. Also no cpu test results from a low end i5, which is only about 30 or 40 dollars more than the A10 and would have made the cpu performance look even worse.
Really, unless you are using some application that uses HSA or open CL, or trying to build a SFF gaming box without a discrete card, dont see much place for this processor. The price is also still to high. Should be a 120.00 at the most. Reply
meacupla - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkI just checked newegg today, but I haven't seen the A6-7400k being listed, since it's supposed release in feb.
Might as well buy a Pentium AE and discreet video card for the asking price of an A10. Reply
Essence_of_War - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkIan,
I was surprised that there were no platform power consumption benchmarks, was there a reason for not doing/including those? I'd like to see what kind of real-world power savings you pick up from 95W TDP 7850k -> 65W TDP 7800. Reply
Boogaloo - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkSeriously, that's the first thing I looked for. I don't care what the number on the box says as much as the actual consumption. Reply
zodiacsoulmate - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkYea me too Reply
alacard - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkIf i recall correctly they completely stopped adding power consumption numbers around the time ivy bridge came out, and in every single cpu article a few people ask for them and in every single cpu article those people get totally ignored.
My view is someone at intel is putting pressure on anand, and until i will believe it until i hear otherwise.
Ian, time to set the record straight buddy. Reply
DigitalFreak - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkI'll take Conspiracy Theories for $100, Alex. Reply
Essence_of_War - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkReally?
Here's the big haswell review:
Here's the first Kaveri review:
Here's the Devil's Canyon review:
There were platform power benches in all of them. Haswell-big has idle/load for a smattering of i5's/i7's, Devil's Canyon had an OC overview of system power consumption. Same with Kaveri. Reply
DanNeely - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkCould you add a few low/mid end discrete GPUs that fall into the same performance bucket as Kaveri's IGP for comparison purposes? Reply
jaydee - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkThe A10-7800 65W looks like a winner in it's market (budget gaming). Unfortunately, that's not a very large market, and if you're looking to upgrade the CPU down the road, you are quite limited.
On a side note, it seems odd that 1280x1024 was chosen as the resolution for the gaming benchmarks. It's been probably a decade since the 5:4 aspect ratio monitors have been sold in the mainstream. 1440x900 or 1600x900 would make more sense, with similar total number of pixels. Reply
Essence_of_War - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkThis!
I'd like to see a move to 1280x720 or 1600x900 for these sort of low-end graphics parts. Most living room TV's are 1920x1080, but depending on your set-up 1280x720 or 1600x900 might still look pretty good. Reply
jabber - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkI would have thought 1366x768 should be the minimum benchmark size nowadays.
All the others are quite custom and the average Joe won't be using them. Reply
DanNeely - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - link1600x900 is the current mid level gfx setting for mobile reviews; 1366x786 is the low end level. don't know why it couldn't be added to IGP benching too. The next time the IGP benchmark process is updated either of them would make more sense as a target. 1600x900 is closer in terms of pixel count; but 1366x768 is probably a more realistic option for most IGP gaming if only a single resolution is tested, since only the highest end IGPs can get FPSes high enough to play at anything higher. Reply
Essence_of_War - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - link1280x720 is a standard resolution for TVs. For a light gaming HTPC type load, I think that's pretty reasonable to test. Reply
Guspaz - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkUmm, NewEgg has 146 different monitors with 1280x1024 resolution available. They're definitely still extremely mainstream, and there are only two resolutions that they have more selections for, 1920x1080 and 2560x1440. Reply
SparklesP - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkStill available if you're looking to buy an older budget monitor or are in the market for refurbished, but they are basically only being made to wholesale to cheap businesses these days. Reply
jaydee - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkI guess I wouldn't call something "mainstream" just because some vendors have leftover stock at non-competitive prices, but I see we have differing definitions of the word. I also wouldn't consider SCSI HDs to be "mainstream" but Newegg does a considerable stock of those as well.
Don't confuse number of choices with actual popularity. Reply
Iketh - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkLOL SCSI LOLOLOLOLO Reply
Dribble - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkNot a budget desktop - you'd be much better of with a cheap intel cpu and a discrete gpu. Then you got a great upgrade path to an i5, and better gpu in the future. As for extra cost of gpu, well you can get a second hand one off ebay cheap, or probably scrounge your game loving friends old one and that would still be faster then the A10.
Only place these really make sense is a budget laptop, where you can't upgrade anything so need the best balanced solution upfront, but these aren't laptop chips. Reply
Gadgety - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkI find that in the games benchmarked the A8-7600 isn't far behind (-2.3%; -5.8%, -8.8% and at most 11%), and sometimes even ahead (+3%) of the A10-7800, at only 2/3 of the cost. Seems to be more of a budget gaming winner, at least in terms of the price/performance ratio. Reply
joe0185 - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkIan great review. One thing Id like to see on CPU reviews the inclusion of a single highend CPU and a minimum baseline CPU. In this review all the hardware was more or less in the same range so it is hard to get perspective relative to the ultra high end and the very low end. Keep it up man! Reply
Anonymous Blowhard - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkSo can we ACTUALLY buy these low-power APUs now, or is this another paper-launch/vapor-launch? Reply
morganf - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkApparently not. At least, I do not see them on newegg at the moment. Reply
Shadowmaster625 - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkIs there seriously no power consumption tests? wow. And there's no tests to compare kaveri vs a G3258 + a modest discrete card such as a HD7750. wow why even bother with this review, it tells us nothing. Luckily another side was a bit more competent and their data shows a 34 watt increase at the wall vs an 54W TDP i3. Shocking. All that extra power for less performance. I really want to see the data showing a G3258 + discrete outperforming kaveri in Perf/watt. Imagine the horror of spending billions of dollars to purchase a GPU company and spending and years to integrate its IP only to still be worse than your own discrete gpu combined with your competitor's CPU! Reply
takeship - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkFrom other reviews on the web, it looks like the 7800 is good for ~85w under load. Oops. No wonder performance is so close to the 7850k. Of course, maybe we'll get some anandtech numbers using a 1200w "noisy" psu eventually. Reply
silverblue - Saturday, August 02, 2014 - linkIt looks as if there needs to be a simple investigation into the clock speed "sweet spot" for Kaveri. There's been the odd article on SA that shows that the top mobile APU usually performs at 2/3 the speed of the top desktop part albeit for about a third of the TDP, so it's worth proving.
I did see an article earlier that hinted that the 7800 used a little less power under load at its 65W setting than the earlier 7600... http://hothardware.com/Reviews/AMD-Kaveri-Update-A...
...however, it disagrees with this article... http://www.techspot.com/review/856-amd-a10-7800-ka...
It's almost the same here (7600 wins), but look at the improvement over the previous generations... http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/amd-a10-7800-... Reply
Homeles - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkUnfortunately, Ian's been omitting power consumption numbers lately. Wish he weren't :\ Reply
Stoneburner - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - link" News from Intel might change that with Broadwell, as back in May an announcement regarding a socketed, overclockable Iris Pro CPU would be coming to market."
That sentence gave me a migraine :( Reply
leopard_jumps - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkprice wise is A8 6600K Reply
Black Obsidian - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkKaveri: Fantastic if you absolutely require IGP gaming. Otherwise, humiliated by a $60 Pentium.
I'm sure that AMD must have done the research, but I'd be astonished if the intersection of:
1) Willing to buy non-Intel CPU
2) Interested in gaming
3) Unwilling to invest in a dGPU
Is big enough to be profitable.
Or perhaps it's just the least-unprofitable niche that AMD feels it can compete in, having largely ceded the server and high-end desktop markets to Intel, in addition to their questionable mobile story.
I miss the AMD of yore, but buying up ATI seems like a better decision with each increasingly-lackluster CPU release... Reply
ArcticCoder - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkTo make matters worse, you can get a G3258 with an Z97 motherboard from Microcenter for $100. (Overclocked mine to 4.3 GHz). Reply
meacupla - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkdamn, that's a good deal.
But the average price for PAE and a Z87/97 mobo is around $160~$180. Reply
Computer Bottleneck - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkSee this thread for overclocking on Non-Z motherboards:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=23899... Reply
silverblue - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkI haven't found enough benchmarks to suggest anything about the 7850K vs. the G3258 barring the price differential... Reply
bebimbap - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkHaving bought a i7-920, pentium 3220, i7-3770k, i7 4770k, I can say CPU speed matters way more than iGPU if you are not gaming.
General use - internet/email, you may think cpu speed doesn't matter, but it does. You might get your email to open "instantly" instead of waiting 1-2 seconds.
watching videos - "gpu acceration" with a gtx 670 just irritates me as the pixels are all meshed and audio becomes out of sync when you seek through the video. I just use the cpu.
creating videos into 264h content - if you use gpu acceleration, no to encoding runs will produce the same result, in the end, you'll want to use the cpu for consistent results, unless you want to do a quick rip to your ipod, in that case just use quick sync, it's very fast.
file compression/extraction - cpu speed matters here especially compression.
file copy - cpu speed matters. If you ever run a low end cpu and try to copy at 100MB/s you start using a non-significant portion of your cpu.
I've never run into a case outside of gaming where even the GMA 900 with the 915G chipset wasn't good enough, and what ever iGPU intel is using now is much better than that. If you are a "light gamer" and play mostly flash or shockwave, i would say intel igpu is still "good enough." If you are doing "budget" build your monitor would probably be on the "budget" side too, and wouldn't be good enough to display your games at high res or without significant ghosting at high frame rates.
I'm not an intel fan boy or an amd fan boy, I just go with what suits my needs best. In the end, I ALWAYS read what AMD is up to because the one thing I am waiting for is, AMD manages to run all their cpu-floating point operations through their iGPU. THAT would be very interesting. Similar to the FPGA added to the upcoming line of intel XEON processors. Reply
DigitalFreak - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkIntel needs competition. Unfortunately, AMD isn't providing it. Reply
extremesheep49 - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkDoes the A10-7800 still suffer from the power delivery issue from previous articles? I thought I heard it might be related to the CPU's being from an early batch. Is this now a non-issue?
From http://www.anandtech.com/show/7914/msi-a88xme35-re...
"In our recent FM2+ motherboard reviews [1,2], one of the common themes has been the ability of the motherboard power delivery to cope with temperature. When the power delivery is too hot, the system may cease to function or various benchmarks fail. Over-engineering the power delivery to be efficient has benefits, but increases the cost of the product. When I pulled the A88XM-E35 out of the box and saw no heatsink present, I was worried that the same issue would rear its head, and it did. Without additional VRM cooling, the A88XM-E35 caused an instant reboot on some of our more strenuous benchmarks (Agisoft, Handbrake). Therefore it should be noted that the results of this review were taken with an additional fan on the VRM cooling, and users of the A88XM-E35 should bare this in mind."
Also, it would be awesome if you covered Dota 2 for these IGPU's because it is the most popular game in the world. On a A10-5700 at 1920x1200 I need to run almost minimum settings to insure I never go under 10 FPS. I would have expected better from the best IGPU's around.
Tom's hardware covers Dota 2 and it seems like it might be poorly optimized because it's getting half the FPS of the intel card. Not sure. If it is poorly optimized...
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fx-7600p-kaver... Reply
R3MF - Friday, August 01, 2014 - linkSeconded. Reply
extremesheep49 - Wednesday, August 06, 2014 - linkBy the way, the min FPS in that Dota 2 performance article seem too high. They may not have had any really big visible fights in that test. Here's how I test Dota 2:
0. Enable Fraps benchmarking on F12; record frametimes at least; stop bench after 500 sec or so
1. Dota 2 -> Play -> Create a lobby -> Create Lobby (not local; local is CPU intensive and reduces FPS)
2. Join a slot
3. Edit settings:
- Game mode: all pick
- Check `Enable Cheats`
- Check `Fill empty slots with bots`
4. Start game and choose `Faceless Void` (`Warlock` is another good choice). Both have ults which can slow down a slow computer when the ult happens
5. Use these cheats (hit enter to bring up chat box; type `-gold 100` in chatbox to get 100 gold for example)
- `-lvlup 24` (level yourself up to level 25)
- `-item item_travel_boots`
- `-item item_assault`
- `-item item_refresher`
- `-item item_mjollnir`
- `-item item_butterfly`
- `-item item_bloodstone`
- `-levelbots 24` (level all the bots up to level 25)
- `-givebots item_shivas_guard`
- `-givebots item_bloodstone`
6. Note these cheats:
- `-respawn` to bring yourself back to life
- `-refresh` to give everyone full health, mana, and to remove item cooldowns
6. Start the benchmark
7. Teleport to mid and attack until benchmark ends. Make sure to use `Chronosphere` and `Refresher Orb` so you can place 2 Chronospheres at once. Use `-refresh` to reset cooldowns to continue the attack. Bots will use `Shivas guard` a lot so there's a lot of special effects occurring.
7 - alternate. Using `Warlock` is a little different. You need `Aghanim Sceptor` to get the full effect from his ult.
On my A10-5700 with graphics maxed at 1920x1200, I will get less than 5 FPS during these fight scenes. These are not infrequent occurrences. These are the most important moments of the fight. Reply
FriendlyUser - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkLooks good and the adjustable TDP is a great feature for different applications (NAS or media server etc). It seemed really improbable a little time ago, but we are really approaching playable territory for many modern games without a dGPU. I would really love to see TrueAudio and HSA work in more games and applications... Reply
GreenMeters - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkSomeday, I will be able to read the name of this processor without then spending 10 minutes singing to myself: NANA-NANANANANA-NA-NA-NA, Ka[ta]veri Damacy.
This is not that day. Reply
ssj3gohan - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkSo... when is this AMD center bullshit going to stop? Because I really can't help thinking anything else than that I'm reading an advert instead of a quality review. I'm seriously avoiding reading any AMD-related Anandtech articles in fear of ending up here. Reply
tcube - Friday, August 01, 2014 - linkFair enough... now complain the same about intel center and nvidia center... geez you fanboys Reply
austinsguitar - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkamd needs something up there sleves... this is not it. An intel (i7 4500U 15W!)cpu in my laptop out-performs this disgrace.... i miss amd. APU or not, i dont think people care that much about trivial performance like this. it pains me. Reply
leopard_jumps - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkit is an ultra low voltage CPU . i7 4700MQ is a great deal but for me i5 3230M + Geforce GT 740M/Radeon 8750M is a good deal . Of course , the more the better . Reply
medi02 - Saturday, August 02, 2014 - linkAPU is what it has at the moment. (actually closing TDP gap is a nice step forward)
What is it, that I can do with i7, but can't do with A10? Reply
austinsguitar - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkjust for shiz and giggles.... how about qualcomm start making desktop grade equipment. they need to! intel now has a total monopoly right now. cmon qualcomm come at me! Reply
jamescox - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkEnthusiast make cpu performance to be much more important than it actually is. For most everyday use (web surfing, web video, etc) there isn't going to be too much subjective difference between any modern cpus. For gaming, the cpu is also becoming mostly irrelevant. If you play at 1080p or greater with a dedicated gpu, you have to go down to a very low-end cpu before it will make much of any difference. This may change when DX12 comes out, since they are supposed to be making it more multi-threaded. This may favor cpus with 4 or more threads eventually, but one should not buy computer hardware based on "eventually". I wouldn't even bother overclocking a cpu for gaming these days. I would consider water cooled gpus and such for a high-end gaming machine though.
AMD is presumable working on stacking memory chips in with their gpus and apus, but this will be a ways off and may be limited to mid-range or higher. Any added step in processing adds the possibility of failure of the final package, which increases cost. It seems like they could achieve near dedicated gpu performance with an integrated memory chip similar to iris pro, but perhaps this is too expensive. It also may cannibalize dedicated gpu market. Intel doesn't have that concern since they have no dedicated gpu market.
I have also wondered why they don't put a gpu-like memory interface on these apus and just solder everything onto the board. This would deliver dGPU like performance and would be great for mobile and SFF; it would be very similar to what is in the PS4. It would have low cpu performance due to power limitations, but not that many applications actually require more cpu performance these days.
AMD has more gpu power available on-die, so they need to add something like Intel's quick sync or other software/hardware features. The APUs should not lose in video encoding and such when they have more processing resources available. Is the OpenCL accelerated version of handbrake available yet? Several of the applications under cpu benchmarks can be gpu accelerated, and several of them that cannot be gpu accelerated are probably not really relevant. Any of these chips are fast enough for web browsing. I am still using an old core2duo laptop for web browsing, and it mostly works fine. The memory size (<4 GB) seems to be more of a limitation than the cpu speed. Reply
MrVeedo - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkthese chips serve their purpose in my opinion. amd does seem to get a lot of bashing, some deserved I will admit, but again it all depends on what you will be doing with your pc. if you shop around, you can pick up a nice board and cpu for relatively cheap. my most recent build is focused around the asrock fm2+ itx motherboard and a 7850k. using a fractal node 304 case, I have 6 hard drives and a 250gb msata ssd, along with a xonar stx sound card. my killawatt meter is in front of me and its reading a 44 watt draw while typing this. obviously the drives are asleep at the moment. the cpu is clocked at 4.1, gpu 960, mem speed at 2133. just to give an idea on power consumption. Reply
Cerb - Sunday, August 03, 2014 - linkWith HP and Lenovo both using AMD APUs in mainstream notebooks, including HP in their business lines, clearly they are doing something right with the latest APUs, even outside of our bubble (like having good enough real-world performance per dollar and Watt). Reply
Cerb - Sunday, August 03, 2014 - linkI get CPU-limited in games a few years old, don't even have a >=1080p monitor, and AMD doesn't even produce a CPU as fast as mine. "Gaming," is quite varied in terms of performance. AAA shooters, and most games also on consoles, will not need much CPU, because even the latest consoles are running Atom-class CPUs (the prior gen would get laughed at by current Atoms). Games tuned for each platform, or just on PCs, tend to be much more CPU heavy, or at least capable of being so (usually resulting in what amounts to a different game). Reply
Cerb - Sunday, August 03, 2014 - linkRe more processing: they don't have more CPU processing resources than Intel's CPUs. If Handbrake intends to maintain quality over speed, FI, don't expect much gain from any GPU acceleration. GPU accel works well for some video processing, and depending on program used, can make a big difference in speed of editing videos, but not so much encoding. The image viewer is all I saw that definitely should be able to be accelerated by the GPU, though the 3D particle bench might be able to be. The rest are very much cases for CPUs, not at all GPUs. Not that there isn't a lot that can be accelerated, but of the chosen things to test, there's not much there that would be a good case for it. Reply
nofumble62 - Thursday, July 31, 2014 - linkAMD finally could produce a credible alternative for Intel Celeron. Reply
Cerb - Sunday, August 03, 2014 - linkThat's a bit low. I'd take a Vishera or Kaveri over a Celeron any day, as a current daily user of a Haswell Celeron. If you were used to a 4MB/die or 6MB/die Core 2, or a Phenom II w/ L3, or better, a new brand Celeron would be a palpable step backwards, while most of AMD's APUs are quite capable, and only feel slow when faced with long-running CPU-limited tasks. Reply
wintermute000 - Friday, August 01, 2014 - linka.) Lack of power test results is worrying.
b.) Why are the gaming benchmarks done @ 1280x1024? Why not do 1368x768 and 1680x1050 and 1920x1080? i.e. the resolutions of most monitors
Aside from that, looks grim for AMD, absolutely no point to these APUs - even if the power usage is indeed efficient, we're looking @ desktop not laptop chips. The only scenario I can see them being useful is in tiny HTPC/mITX builds where you're not using a dGPU. Otherwise as many have commented, a pentium + dGPU will smoke kaveri at not much extra cost. AMD better pray that OpenCL takes off in a big big way.
Personally, I would love a ~50-80 dollar version with just a minimal IGP and ECC support for low power file server / virt platform.... intel cores are expensive :) Reply
Anonymous Blowhard - Friday, August 01, 2014 - linkUm, you do know that the G3220 supports ECC RAM, right? Reply
wintermute000 - Saturday, August 02, 2014 - linknot enough cores for a virt platform. I am aware its fine for say freenas. Reply
tcube - Friday, August 01, 2014 - linkThey tested hd resolution as that is a valid scenario for most: play modern or slighly older games on hd maxed out with 30-60 fps or more. This excelent. The simplicity of kaveri the noise level and heat outup are quite ok plus the less hassle with one extra fan for the dgpu. You can even play aaa games of this year on these chips and they are perfectly smooth on hd. Moving to fullhd you will need to tone down the graphics a bit to get smooth frames... Reply
Cerb - Sunday, August 03, 2014 - linkhttp://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2014/07/31/amd-a-...
Power usage actually looks quite decent. Nothing that's going to worry Intel, but I can see why HP is willing to put slow ones into new Elitebooks. Reply
Conficio - Friday, August 01, 2014 - linkI would like to see a validation of the 45W performance difference claims. Would it be possible to run the same benchmarks in 45W mode? Reply
zodiacfml - Saturday, August 02, 2014 - linkCompelling GPU performance.....yet, I don't game anymore. I hope AMD could catch up with CPU performance, at this rate, the CPU will become the bottleneck for their integrated GPUs. Reply
johnny_boy - Saturday, August 02, 2014 - linkI know DDR3 2400 isn't officially supported but given how cheap CL10 stuff is these days (a few more bucks than 2133) it would be nice to see gaming benchmarks for 2400 too. Reply
johnny_boy - Saturday, August 02, 2014 - linkGiven the nearly identical performance of the A8-7600 and its ability to run at 45W TDP and its significantly lower price (over 30 euros here), I see no reason to buy the A10-7800. Reply
Valantar - Saturday, August 02, 2014 - linkWill the benchmark results from this review be added to Bench soon? Reply
beck2050 - Sunday, August 03, 2014 - linkMost applications are not optimized for Open Cl so Intel's solutions are better genererally. Reply
Allan_Hundeboll - Monday, August 04, 2014 - linkLike a lot of people these days I'm unemployed and have to save money wherever I can.
My overclocked q6600 is fast enough for almost everything except some of the most demanding new games. Here in Denmark electricity is very expensive, so I'm thinking about upgrading to something more efficient, but because my funds are limited I can't replace all my components in one month. After reading about power efficiency and and game performance, a dirt cheap motherboard, 4GB DDR3 and the overclockable pentium anniversary edition seem like the best route. Then I will "recycle" my Nvidia gtx 260 graphics card until I can afford the power efficient gtx 750ti. Of Course 4GB isn't optimal but that's also easy to upgrade later.
I dont like the idea of upgrading my old quad with a dualcore without HT but looking at gaming benchmarks it seem I would need a 6 "core" amd to keep up with that, and that wouldn't be power efficient. The small pentium AE is dirt cheap and with a intel socket 1150 based motherboard I can upgrade the CPU to a i5 when games start to require 4 cores. Hopefully I can get a new i5 cheap in a year or so...
But I do fear that AMD can't survive because they seem so far behind intel. This is really sad because I do remember intels pricing before AMD "conroed" the cpu war with the mighty Athlon.
So please support AMD a bye their products, sadly I can't afford to do so! Reply
vision33r - Monday, August 04, 2014 - linkThis APU seems like 6-7 yrs late. I don't think it's competitive at all and even Intel's newly released SOC meant for mobile will catch and beat AMD APU in less than 2 years. They need to get their chip design competitive fast or soon ARM SOCs will take over the low price desktop market. I think Chromebooks are already outselling AMD notebooks. Reply
rooh - Tuesday, August 05, 2014 - linkGood review. I'll buy a laptop with that APU or any with quad-core @2.5GHz or higher
Since they play good 1280 * 1024 with lot of total pixels compared to 1366 * 768
They are way 2 good for games at 1366 * 768 resolution as most laptop with them are at that resolution.
2 months from now I will grab mine Reply
Wowhw - Tuesday, August 05, 2014 - linkMost of You need to move to an area where electricity costs 0/per kWh.
Seriously. Compaling over TDP was fun maybe a couple of years ago, now it's just old. Want low TDP? Get an ARM based laptop like the chromebook. Reply
briansmccrary - Tuesday, August 05, 2014 - linkgood Reply
Phartindust - Wednesday, August 06, 2014 - linkGlad to see AMD working on getting TDP down, and it appears it didn't cost them much in performance to cut it by almost third. Perhaps there is something to be said for allowing a node/arch to mature instead racing to the next? Reply
Nepos480 - Saturday, August 09, 2014 - linkLots of people here saying there is no sense behind the AMD solution and there is. Clearly. The only problem is that its really niche. My dilemma: I want a quiet HTPC. I need it to be cool running as well because it will be on most of the time as my file server. It needs to be cheap. It also needs to be flexible. My original solution was a celeron g530 (stock cooler), Radeon 5450 (passive), 4GB RAM, and a ton of HHDs. Case was roughly 3U. 2x 120mm fans intake/exhaust. To be honest it wasnt bad. And it was cheap. The whole damned thing. But I quickly lost flexibility. No issues with the CPU. At 2.4 ghz It felt just as snappy as my 2500k in XBMC. But the passive GPU idled at around 122 and coasted at 135. In turn it caused my chipset to heat up. I know these temps dont scare most but I like peace of mind. So I thought about adding a cheap discrete GPU but the smallish enclosure and cheap card would lead to too much fan noise. i could recycle my 260gtx (the T-34 of GPUs) but it killed airflow and barely fit. The final straw was when I decided to emulate PS2 games (gauntlet legends to make sure I head enough overhead) on the home theater. The CPU was ok. but the 5450 wasnt no matter what I tried. Plus is really started to cook. So I tried doing with the Intel HD graphics. The emulation literally played in slow motion to include the music. So I was stuck.
So I bought an A4 4000 and a zalman copper cooler (CPNS 7000 I think). Now there is no fan noise. Period. My WD eco greens are louder. Everything runs cooler and airflow is awesome (still angry the copper HS isnt really copper though). The CPU @ 3.2ghz is about equal to the celeron @2.4 ghz (sad really) but the 7480d smokes all my other solutions. So now I have everything I wanted (cheap, cool, quiet).
These AMD CPUs expand possibilities. Not saying I am a fanboi either (i5 4670, i5 2500k, E8400, G530, i3 ULV in a notebook). But this one AMD APU saved my bacon. About $130 or so for APU, Mobo and Zalman cooler. Reply
HiTechObsessed - Monday, August 11, 2014 - linkAPUs are still nowhere near viable for their price/performance.
For the same price as the A10-7800, you can buy a 750k Athlon or Pentium G3258 and pair it with a 7750 (or similar) for FAR superior gaming performance. The gap in price/performance only widens if you compare to the 7850k.
Tl;dr APUs are pointless still. Reply


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The Body Shop Cranberry Home Fragrance Oil Reviews
Smells Great!My friend had this burning in her house. I had to ask what it was. So nice! — 4 years, 8 months agoEricaC123 | 458 reviews
This review is: Helpful | Not helpful | Inappropriate | 14 of 22 people said helpful
Review subjectThis scent is HEAVEN!!! — 6 years, 1 month agoMissPurple | 611 reviews
This review is: Helpful | Not helpful | Inappropriate | 12 of 21 people said helpful
So cranberry!WOW! I smelt this cranberry oil at the body shop when they were demonstrating it. It smells so good. It's like a sweet cranberry scent that really awakens your senses. So good! — 9 years, 3 months agoTBjunkie | 692 reviews
This review is: Helpful | Not helpful | Inappropriate | 25 of 32 people said helpful
Cran-tastic!A few years ago we started our new family tradition, which is to lit scented oil or candle from Thanksgiving to every night of Advent. I enjoy using the cranberry scent oil and candle especially for Thanksgiving night. This year's Body Shop's Cranberry oil is called "Cranberry Joy". It produces a sweet, tangy, and rich scent. Everyone, young and old, family and guests, loves this scent. It is stro...read moreng, and a few drops fills up quickly, so I recommend to use this in a big room. Two thumbs up! — 6 years, 9 months agoluckybetty | 895 reviews
This review is: Helpful | Not helpful | Inappropriate | 9 of 11 people said helpful
smells like chemicalsIt seems too synthetic and nothing like the natural smell that the Body Shop usually promotes. — 5 years agospringsblue | 181 reviews
This review is: Helpful | Not helpful | Inappropriate | 3 of 4 people said helpful
Good scent around th holidaysMy wife and I get most of our diffuser oils from TBS and cranberry is one that we really like around the holidays,it makes our place smell great. — 6 years, 9 months agosteadyeddie925 | 351 reviews
FragranceThis fills my room with the greatest scent. Holdays come to mind. — 6 years, 10 months agoKARENCOGBURN | 285 reviews
This review is: Helpful | Not helpful | Inappropriate | 4 of 6 people said helpful
Holiday CheerMy friend was nice enough to gift this to me for the holidays, along with a bunch of other exclusive goodies from the body shop. Boy was this a treat! First off, the smell is not one of those really chemically sweet smells that remind me of artificial candy nor was it one of those stale smells like canned cranberry sauce, it is actually really difficult for me to describe the scent without butcher...read moreing it. My words can do no justice, all I can say is you have to try this out if you have not. It smells really fresh but not over powering. Like most of the Body Shop scents it is supposed to mock a very natural smell, but it does smell a bit more sweet, maybe not as fresh as the other scents, but it is great for the holidays. It can be sort of seen as an aroma therapy sort of ordeal, it really relaxes the body and your sense of smell just feels so pampered with this product. I used this scent during a dinner party during the holiday season and was rewarded with so many compliments. I do have to pick up a few more just incase I run out of this bottle. I do not know if this is a limited edition for the holiday season or something because usually cranberry is used in seasonal products. I really hope it is not, anyhow I do not know the price of these products neither since it was a gift, but I do think I have tired something similar to this and it was more on the higher end of the price range spectrum. I do not know if it is appropriate to use this scent after the holidays though. Overall, this product would make your home feel really warm and welcoming during the holidays. It is a worthy investment. — 4 years, 7 months agoMisselizabeth | 38 reviews
holiday timei love this scent in the fall time. it smells so delicious — 4 years, 3 months agobrianna121791 | 69 reviews
This review is: Helpful | Not helpful | Inappropriate | 2 of 2 people said helpful
smells wonderfulIt smells sweet and comforting, but fresh at the same time- not too heavy — 4 years, 1 month agorouxblonde | 92 reviews
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Spice of the Month: Caraway Seedby Dana Angelo White in Healthy Recipes, March 10, 2013
They're what gives rye bread its classic flavor, but you can do so much more with this robust spice.
Caraway Basics
This member of the parsley family has a pungent aroma and flavor, nutty and warm with a hint of anise. This ancient slivered, black seed is a common element in Austrian and German cooking.
Available in both whole and ground seeds, whole seeds have a potent flavor and aroma. If a recipe calls for ground seeds, grind up just before using for best results.
Nutrition Info
One tablespoon of caraway seeds has 22 calories, 1 gram of fat and 2 grams of fiber. There's also a small amount of iron, calcium and even a pinch of vitamin C.
What to do with Caraway
Caraway seeds add a spicy heat to St. Patrick's Day favorites like corned beef, coleslaw and Irish soda bread. It's also a traditional ingredient in harissa, a fiery Tunisian condiment. For an unexpected, yet warm and delicious flavor add caraway seeds to soup, stews, sauces and dry rubs for beef or lamb.
Storage Tip
Store caraway seeds in a cool dry place for up to 6 months.
Recipes to Try
Classic Coleslaw
Soda Bread Biscuits
Caraway and Parmesan Grissini
Mushroom-Caraway Soup